# Well?



## Morrus (Aug 19, 2002)

What do you think?  Good, bad, none of the above?  

What am I talking about?  The new news page, of course!  It's a work-in-progress, so feel free to stick your oar in!


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## William Ronald (Aug 19, 2002)

Overall, I like the new look.

It is less cluttered and easier on the eyes.  It is a bit long, but I know you have been away.  I hope  you are fully rested.

I like the more informal style.  It is more conversational, and provides news without being a news site.


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## poilbrun (Aug 19, 2002)

To put it short, I prefered the old style of the website, but I prefer this way of reporting news, even if it's going to be a hassle to find something in the archive...


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## Morrus (Aug 19, 2002)

poilbrun said:
			
		

> *even if it's going to be a hassle to find something in the archive... *




Perhaps if I look into adding a search feature?


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## Henrix (Aug 19, 2002)

I really like the editorial style, but I found that the shorter notices, where you just say 'a review of this product is up here' and the like, were a bit harder to sift through. 

Perhaps these could be a little more separated? A bulleted list in it's own little subsection, or perhaps just a few more breaks, so that each item has it's own line?


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## Majoru Oakheart (Aug 19, 2002)

I don't mind the new style at all, but I miss the "product schedule" dates and pictures that used to be on the right hand side.  I went to look for it, and, if it's somewhere else, I can't find it.

I use it to figure out when the next good book I want is coming out from WOTC and save money for it.  I find that searching WOTC's site for that information is too difficult.

Majoru Oakheart


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## Plane Sailing (Aug 19, 2002)

I really like the new look. It is clean and easy to read, the line length works out nicely and I prefer the chatty editorial style.

One thing that seems missing? would it be worth having links to the most recent "natural 20 press" publication on the links menu (perhaps towards the bottom?). Not a biggie.

One other thought - would it work having a "latest 5 reviews from d20reviews" automatically included, to raise the profile of that part of the website?


Cheers,


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## Leopold (Aug 19, 2002)

it's easy to read, nice and simple layout, but it looks, well bland and dull. I liked the other better than this as this just looks well boring...


call me picky but i think the front page needs a lil spice too it..


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## poilbrun (Aug 19, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Perhaps if I look into adding a search feature? *



That would be great indeed...

And maybe you could make a page containing the release dates for the upcoming products in a calendar-style page, and with a link for each book leading to the review page for the product so that the links to preview or things the like could easily be found.

And maybe you could take the idea you had had before leaving for Gen Con to put the links on the top in various categories to help people find what they're looking for more easily...

I really like when things change!


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## Furn_Darkside (Aug 19, 2002)

Salutations,

Perhaps I am just missing it- but I don't see a link to the ENWorld store.

FD


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## mkletch (Aug 19, 2002)

*Less handy*

I understand the new plan, for lack of a better word, but the old format gave you better and quicker access to other sections of the site and links.  Especially the old news style, with reports and links broken into the appropriate sections.  While a visually simple style is easier on the eyes, it is also less interesting.

THen again, if it is this new style or a bored Morrus that cannot spend the inhuman amount of time needed to keep EN World running, I'll take the new style.

-Fletch!


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## Clint (Aug 19, 2002)

I agree with Henrix. The editorial style is good, and makes the site feel more personal. But perhaps a few bulleted lists, for the information that's clearly a list, would be easier to navigate.


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## Selganor (Aug 19, 2002)

I have to admit I never really used the right navbar (except when I was looking for the hosted sites) so I'm not bothered that it is now "lost"...


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## android (Aug 19, 2002)

*two thumbs down *

Sorry to say that I dislike this new version of the site.  I think the design itself looks a bit boring and unexciting.  There is almost 100% text which makes it difficult to sort through things.  It's a bit like reading a newspaper only without the columns, pictures, headlines, and sections.  It's a hassle to read it all when you just want to pick out what's particularly interesting to you.  

I find myself ignoring much of the news that is posted as disinteresting to me.  It simply deals with parts of the d20 industry that I have little interest in.  Before, it was easy for me to filter those things out at a glance and catch just what I wanted.  It seems more difficult now.

If I had to make suggestions, I'd say drop the editorial style.  The layout itself I think is nice (the 2 column vs. the 3 column of before), it just needs to be spiced up a bit.  Lists of text on the left are just bland.  Add some images or icons or perhaps even a fold out menu or something of that sort to take away the large list of items on the left.  Just to make it easier to navigate through.

Hope these suggestions help.  Keep up the good work!


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## alsih2o (Aug 19, 2002)

much more approachable, has a format that seems more natural...


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## Siridar (Aug 19, 2002)

I like the editorial style, and I don't miss the right-most column as I almost never used it, but I do think it added a bit more color to the overall look. 
The new style just looks a bit bland. Maybe some headlines to break up the sections?

A calendar page might be useful as you could list the release dates and any other important dates such as chat schedules or other "events" if it isn't too much work.


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## PosterBoy (Aug 19, 2002)

Keep in mind that I would come to this site if it was pink and pruple, but I find the new layout to be just too plain.  If you want to go to all text with little grahpics, then I suggest going to a ligher color scheme.

Again, I will visit regardless, but I find the homepage a bit boring now.

Just my 2 cents...


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## bolen (Aug 19, 2002)

What I dont like is that it is now difficult to scan.  I bet I am not the only one who does not read a web page I tend to scan it to look for tid bits that I am interested in.  I hope you will go to more of an outline form for us non-readers.


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## collin (Aug 19, 2002)

*New look*

Morrus:

Overall I'd say I have mixed feelings about your new webpage layout.  I like some more lengthier paragraphs, but it is a lot to read through.  The bulleted points made it easier to scan for information a person was interested in.  Maybe open up a page each day with a lengthy paragraph or two, then move to listing information in the bulleted format (or is that too much like it was before?).  One thing I do like better is not having so much "clutter" on the sides of the page.


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## LoPaC (Aug 19, 2002)

I dunnno, Morrus, I liked it better the old school style.  But this way isnt all bad, its just.....lengthy.  Thats all.


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## derverdammte (Aug 19, 2002)

I like the new style, but I think I'd like a mix of old and new better.  Like, some editorial content, plus some bulleted lists.  That would break things up and make it easier on the eyes.  As it is, it looks a little too much like a gossip column--you know, the kind where all the celebrity names are bolded.  I find myself scanning the paragraphs for the links, then reading the surrounding text, and I doubt that's what you intended.  Even a less blocky layout would help.  Nevertheless, I like the change.  It gives the site more personality.


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## Suzerain (Aug 19, 2002)

***


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## Matthew The Mage (Aug 19, 2002)

Well it looks good.
change every now and then is nice.


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## Tharkun (Aug 19, 2002)

Yea, looks good!


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## Stockdale (Aug 19, 2002)

Adding my two cents to this debtae, I think that this revised format is less desirable because it forces the viewer to read most of the page, rather than to scan the headlines and spend time only reading what is important to that particular viewer. Thus, I like the shorter, bullet-point format. Then again, this is Morrus' site and he can write the copy however he sees fit.


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## gamecat (Aug 19, 2002)

Absolutely splendid! What does Eric's grandma think?


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## Greybar (Aug 19, 2002)

So far great!

I never used the "upcoming products" column, and I am all for ENWorld not just being a media outlet to sell WotC (or other people's games).  If you're not trying to sell them, there is no reason to waste front-page space listing them.  It made sense when we were all awaiting the DMG perhaps, but no longer.  If publishers want that front-page space, they can buy an Advertisement, and help keep ENWorld up and running!

As for the style, I like it.  Seems less like a list of press release summaries.  The big thing though is what makes Morrus happy and still wanting to spend his personal time doing this for all of us. [grin]

However, if someone wants to keep the PR-list going, perhaps a permanent section/thread that is available for such would be a way for people to have both.

John


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## paqman (Aug 19, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *call me picky but i think the front page needs a lil spice too it.. *




I second that one....


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## JoeBlank (Aug 19, 2002)

I voted "none of the above", and wanted to provide some words of explanation. Low post count, but I read the news site virtually every day, and the boards too.

I like the streamlined look, and definately could go for a regular column from you. Until recently, you have been very "behind the scenes". I did not think of this site as "Morrus's site" the way I thought of the old site as Eric's. From what little we did see of you, mostly on the messageboard's, I like your style, and could not appreciate more what you have done for this community by keeping this site up. 

It was nice to read the news in an article-like format, but I am not sure I will have the time to do that every day. Do you plan on writing a full-length column on an almost-daily basis, as you have previously updated? Seems that will be more work for you and the reader. I guess I agree with those who said they miss the bulleted, easy to scan format of the news. The impression I got when you were contemplating this change was that you wanted to make the site more personal, and less commercial. I think you have done that. Perhaps a mix between easy-to-read bullets and columns would suit me more.

That said, this is The Site for d20 and D&D news, as far as I am concerned. I poke around on WoTC's site for fun every once in a while. I check here every day. Your new format will not change that, and if it keeps you enjoying doing this, prevents you from getting burned out, and therefore keeps this site going, I am all for it.

On a purely superficial note, I would rather not see the color scheme changed. I just identify the look with EnWorld, and it would feel wrong to change that.


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## Darke (Aug 19, 2002)

I liked the old version - but I like the denser news-text of the new try. I would combine them probably.

The only thing I'm missing is the reviews partition of the old version - I like to jump directly to the recent reviews.

And I would suggest that you vary the news section from time to time - the denser text version is better I think, but a lot to write everyday too. If you're short on time on some day, stick to the old & shorter news-style version - if you have time, do the longer version.

Thanks for all the work you do and the ENnies too (and the thanks goes to all ppl involved too).

Live long & play d20 

das Darke


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## Henry (Aug 19, 2002)

Personally, I prefer the old look to this one, but because of two reasons:

1) The "prose" news style seems harder to follow, but I don't absolutely hate it. Kind of like caviar - if I had to, I'd take it...

2) The page is definitely lacking "spice" in the form of logos or other graphics. There's something about a plain vanilla HTML page that gets to me.

I'm still more for the "rpgshop" similarity, myself, but mainly because it is obscenely easy to find material and different departments on that site...


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## Magic Rub (Aug 19, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Perhaps if I look into adding a search feature? *




This would be nice!


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## fimp (Aug 19, 2002)

I really think EN World needs a refreshing new color scheme. But i think its going in the right direction...


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## Furn_Darkside (Aug 19, 2002)

fimp said:
			
		

> *I really think EN World needs a refreshing new color scheme. But i think its going in the right direction...  *




I would be happy with a change in the text color.

When reading paragraphs of information, a grey text on a black background begins to be rough on the eyes.

FD


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## Psion (Aug 19, 2002)

First, where is the rpgshop link?

Second, I think I prefer the old "bullet point" style as opposed to the "editorial" style. Gets to the point, lets me pay attention to the points that I am actually interested in instead of wading through a lot of commentary.


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## Acmite (Aug 19, 2002)

I really liked the "centered" news section better than the new version with just the left-hand sidebar.

I find it is more difficult to read the new version--and that's all I really want out of the news page.  Easy to read news.

I like the editorial-style news reporting better.


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## NeghVar (Aug 19, 2002)

I really, really, really like that you are linking directly to external sites again. I did not like going to the review section only to find out that there was not a good link to an external site there.

Thanks!!!


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## Morrus (Aug 19, 2002)

Acmite said:
			
		

> *
> I find it is more difficult to read the new version--and that's all I really want out of the news page.  Easy to read news.
> 
> I like the editorial-style news reporting better. *




I'm kinda finding those two statements to be... contradictory.


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## Nail (Aug 19, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm kinda finding those two statements to be... contradictory. *




Perhaps my thoughts are similar.

Editorial form = good

length = bad


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## buzz (Aug 19, 2002)

I think that long, unbroken paragraphs are basially a bad idea for most Web pages. Short paragraphs and bullet-points make it easy for users to scan pages and find what it is they're looking for. You're streamlining the navigation, but then adding clutter to the content.

If you want to keep the editorial style, I'd suggest modeling the page after traditional news sites. Have a clearly identifiable headline that is both a hot link and succinctly states the jist of the news item, and then follow it with a paragraph going into more detail, e.g.:

"* _Wizards releases MM2 art gallery_
Blah, blah, orc, blah, blah, pie..."

Organizing these blurbs using the same categories as the old site would be even better.


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## Azazyll (Aug 20, 2002)

The new format is a bit harder to read than the old one because it's less efficient.  personally, I liked the old way better, but I'm so glad you run this website I won't mind too much.


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## KB9JMQ (Aug 20, 2002)

I like the new look and the editorial style.
But (there is always a but  ) there is too much text at once.
Headlines and a paragraph with the rest on a link would be better IMHO.

But anything you do which keeps you doing this site is fine by me.

Darrin


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## J'quan (Aug 20, 2002)

The layout was best without the right-side frame for the store - left and right side frames clutter a page.


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## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 20, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *What do you think?  Good, bad, none of the above?
> 
> What am I talking about?  The new news page, of course!  It's a work-in-progress, so feel free to stick your oar in! *




I see you have added the EN store icons to the right hand side since this morning, so you might as well go back to listing new/upcoming products there. The product icon/pictures under your store logo look terrible. How about a text list of newest products ( by Date, NOT publisher instead? ) avail in the store? Publishers not utilizing your store as a distribution channel can still have their products listed from the top bar links. 

Your five links accross the top bar are now:

20 Press Releases | WotC's Product Schedule | Upcoming D20 Products | Latest Reviews | D20 Top 20

How about :

1) New d20 Products // Upcoming d20 products // Reviews // D20 Top 20 // d20 Publisher Press Releases

-- more publisher nuetral this way...

Don't be afraid to showcase the ENstore aspect of the site and get away from specific vendor aspect for the right column. 

That said, I do NOT mind scrolling down a bit for the daily news and announcements... 

ramble ramble...


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## Morrus (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Well?*



			
				BigFreekinGoblinoid said:
			
		

> *Don't be afraid to showcase the ENstore aspect of the site and get away from specific vendor aspect for the right column.
> 
> *




Actually, that specific vendor is me.  They're all EN World products.


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## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: Well?*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Actually, that specific vendor is me.  They're all EN World products.  *




Heh. Well that's cool: as long as you don't sweep the ENnies next year...    The scans don't look so good really  though... 

I guess what I meant was getting away from showcasing the same upcoming WotC products every day.


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## Pendelton (Aug 20, 2002)

*Miss the Product Schedule*

I like the new editorial style, but I really miss the WOTC product schedule.  I do not mind having it linked on a different page, but the layout of the product catalog is hard to read.  It would be nice if you still had a page that listed all of the dates in an easy to read format so that a person did not have to search through all of the released products to find what was planned.


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## Kershek (Aug 20, 2002)

I didn't vote because of mixed feelings - I like the slimmed-down design, but I don't like the lengthy paragraphs.  For skimming, short bullet-points were much better.  I prefer your old style of reporting.

I would love to see a field for searching news.


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## The_Gneech (Aug 20, 2002)

It's good overall, but I also miss the "Upcoming Products" down the right hand side.

   -The Gneech


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## EOL (Aug 20, 2002)

I really like the editorial style reminds me of another one of my favorite websites www.gonegold.com adds a real personal touch.  Beyond that not much appears to have changed.  The basic look of the site has been the same for several years I would like to see a radical redesign, new colors completely new format, something to really shake things up.  I realize that I am probably the minority...


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## Knightcrawler (Aug 20, 2002)

*Good or Bad*

Well I liked the sltreamlined style.  The page is much faster to load now.  But I don't entirely like the editorial, more conversational style.  Its much harder to find specific items.  I liked before when you had certain sections for things.

But still the best D&D site on the web.  Keep working at it.

Knightcrawler


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## Morrus (Aug 20, 2002)

*Re: Good or Bad*



			
				Knightcrawler said:
			
		

> * Its much harder to find specific items.  I liked before when you had certain sections for things.
> *




The "sections" are still there, actually.  Thery're just not bullet-pointed.  If you look at today's news, you've got all the old familiar sections:

*Site news
*Single item on DL movie
*D20 System News
*Software News
*Community News
*Messageboard Roundup
*Reviews

Those are exactly the sections I would have used before if I were presenting the same news.


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## orbitalfreak (Aug 20, 2002)

I like the new style, more relaxed, and it seems... I dunno... like you ?enjoy? it more.

I second the notion of needing something less bland on the page, though.  Looking back at it, I'd say filling in the sidebars with something other than a flat, monotonous grey would help out a bunch.

My .002 pp


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## The It's Man (Aug 20, 2002)

I like it


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## Trevalon Moonleirion (Aug 21, 2002)

I do like the editorial style reporting much better--it's friendly and easier to read, and I've found myself actually reading the news daily now.  It is, admittedly a bit long, but I really don't mind at all.

So I give the new news page a big thumbs up


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## Eosin the Red (Aug 21, 2002)

Morrus -

I took a few days to decide. *I Love the new editorial style* ! Please, please, please keep it up.

It is my version of the morning paper


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## Conaill (Aug 21, 2002)

orbitalfreak said:
			
		

> *I like the new style, more relaxed, and it seems... I dunno... like you ?enjoy? it more.*




That was exactly my impression. Whatever keeps *you* going, I'm all for it!

The one thing I do miss in the new format is the direct links to the Black Pages. I had been using those mainly to jump to the various SRD pages. Guess I'll have to add a bookmark now!


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## Ketjak (Aug 27, 2002)

*Less handy, requires more time to find information*

When I looked for information before, I could look for the icon associated with WotC news, D20 news, or whatever. Now, I can't be sure if a topic is covered so I have to read the entire news page. The links do little to make the search easier, since at the least I have to read the links rather than look for the icon.

The editorial style is amusing, and I think the current style would benefit by taking a half step back to include the icons and/or other content flags.

I, too, liked the list of upcoming WotC products. It was easier to see what was due out and when, so I could budget my $50 per month RPG budget (hey, I have a full-time job, OK?) ahead of time. I do _not_ like the use of that space as an advertisement for Natural 20 products; it's less of a service to the people who come to the site for news.

I have not yet used the new links at the top. I don't see myself using any but the product listings for the reasons above.

I liked the direct access to the polls. I don't see where that's moved to, though I could simply be unfamiliar with the new location.

The new nav bar on the left is too small to read easily, and the contrast doesn't make it any easier.

- Ketjak


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## Morrus (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: Less handy, requires more time to find information*



			
				Ketjak said:
			
		

> * I do not like the use of that space as an advertisement for Natural 20 products; it's less of a service to the people who come to the site for news. *




Ah, but would selling none of them and thus not having a server on which to house the site be more of a service in your eyes? 

Or, as someone just said to me: "Anything that makes sure the site can stick around, IS a service to the readers"


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## Morrus (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: Less handy, requires more time to find information*



			
				Ketjak said:
			
		

> *I liked the direct access to the polls. I don't see where that's moved to, though I could simply be unfamiliar with the new location.
> *



*

Bravenet just kept screwing up, and when the poll wasn't working the whole page wouldn't load.  I might loko for an alternative.




			The new nav bar on the left is too small to read easily, and the contrast doesn't make it any easier.
		
Click to expand...



It's identical in size, colouring and font to how it was before. *


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## Morrus (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: Less handy, requires more time to find information*



			
				Ketjak said:
			
		

> *
> The editorial style is amusing, and I think the current style would benefit by taking a half step back to include the icons and/or other content flags.
> *



*

The  "sections", as I mentioned earlier, are the same.  The d20 logo identifies the d20 system news; there's a software logo for the software news.  I've never had a logo for site news, community news or reviews.  I might look for some.




			I, too, liked the list of upcoming WotC products. It was easier to see what was due out and when, so I could budget my $50 per month RPG budget (hey, I have a full-time job, OK?) ahead of time.
		
Click to expand...



It's just one click away - WotC's product schedule.  In my opinion, the whole page was just too cluttered, and people couldn't find anything (even me, sometimes!); so I trimmed it down as much as possible.*


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## CRGreathouse (Aug 27, 2002)

*Re: Re: Less handy, requires more time to find information*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *Or, as someone just said to me: "Anything that makes sure the site can stick around, IS a service to the readers"*




I'll second that!


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## Clint (Aug 29, 2002)

I like the current layout. It's simple, fast-loading, and easy to find the places I want to go on the site. Good design, I like it much more than the old one.

In terms of narrative, you've found a good stride. I'm already acclimated to the new style, your use of paragraphs is excellent for helping to find content. Having said that, I skip less, since you've stopped doing the press release stuff. And finally, it does come across with more character and seems more personal than the old format.

Good work.


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