# Spider-Man 3 Villain



## reveal (Mar 22, 2005)

*See http://www.enworld.org/index.php?page=scifi and first paragraph under Movies*

Do I smell Venom?!

Let's see: Thomas Haden Church is about the same build as Eddie Brock and has blonde hair. I'm probably reaching here, but it wouldn't shock me if he was.


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## Kanegrundar (Mar 22, 2005)

Venom was the first character to come to my mind.  Out of the major Spidey-villains, Venom would be the next logical choice.  Too bad they'll have to butcher his origin to get it to fit in with the movies.

Kane


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## Gomez (Mar 22, 2005)

Early on I had heard that the Lizard might so up. They already had Professor Connors as a character in the last movie. With the return of the Green Goblin and another unknown villain it should be interesting. As for Venom, I never really liked him as a spidey villain.


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## EricNoah (Mar 22, 2005)

I barely know Spider-man history, but I thought of Venom too.  

The next villian has to kind of break the "scientific gizmo gone wrong" mold, and needs to kind of top Spidey in certain respects.  

The best villain for Superman in the films was those three exiled Kryptonians because they had similar/equivalent powers.


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## Mouseferatu (Mar 22, 2005)

See, I don't look at Church and see Venom. The face doesn't strike me as right for Eddie Brock.

OTOH, I look at him and I _very much_ see Carnage.

See?

Not that I think they'd jump to using him as a villain without Venom. But then again, since they've got to change the origins _anyway_, why not? Venom has a long-standing grudge with Spidey that would have to be somehow introduced and/or explained in the first few minutes of the movie. Carnage doesn't; he can basically come out of nowhere, once they find a way to explain his abilities.


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## Desdichado (Mar 22, 2005)

I agree; he'd be a great Carnage, but a Venom that's not big and buff just seems very weird to me.


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## reveal (Mar 22, 2005)

I agree he would make a good Carnage, even though he doesn't have red hair. 

I think it would be relatively easy to change the creation story of either Venom or Carnage. Just have Church be a character who comes to resent Spider-Man for some reason. Then an asteroid hits and there's some lab accident and organic matter somehow infuses itself with Church and he "grows" into Venom or Carnage.

And I think he'd be ok as Venom. They can do a lot with CGI to make him look bigger once he's changed. It would give a good perspective on how bad-ass the "suit" is in that it makes him look 3 times as large and mean.


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## Taelorn76 (Mar 22, 2005)

Well Jameson's son was already in space, they could easily say they brought back some rocks that contained "Venom" in them.


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## reveal (Mar 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Well Jameson's son was already in space, they could easily say they brought back some rocks that contained "Venom" in them.




NO! I want my Wolfman!


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## Tonguez (Mar 22, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> See, I don't look at Church and see Venom. The face doesn't strike me as right for Eddie Brock.




Yeah I don't see Venom their either - to small, too sophisticated etc

and since we already have three 'dangers-of-science' characters already (Spidey, Gobo and Dr Ock) having a biochemical accident = Venom is really gonna be cliche.

Then again are there any Spidey villains that don't have a bad science angle? - Lizard does, Scorpion and vulture would be fun to see


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## Mouseferatu (Mar 22, 2005)

BTW, Sam Raimi is on record as not liking Venom, so unless Marvel's basically told him he _has_ to include him, I wouldn't expect to see him--or Carnage--in the movie.

As far as non-science-freak Spidey villains:

Kraven, Mysterio, Scorpion, Shocker, some of the Hobgoblins, Vulture, the Enforcers (if you want to go back far enough to count them)... I'm sure there are others, but they're not coming to mind. I agree completely--and have, in fact, been saying as much since I walked out of Spider-Man 2--that the next villain cannot be a normal guy turned into a freak by a science accident, not if the series is going to work.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 22, 2005)

I'll wager a d4 that kid Jameson becomes Venom.  He has a reason to be bitter against Spidey -- he took Mary Jane away.

Of course, fans would revolt.


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## Kanegrundar (Mar 22, 2005)

I still stand by Venom.  Other than the Lizard most of Spidey's enemies (his oldest anyway) are pretty hokey.  Venom would be a good choice.  Spidey would have to fight a dark, evil version of himself, plus here's a guy that has something to really gain from Peter failing: a job.  Brock got a nod in the first movie when Jameson yelled out to him that he was fired and to get out.  

Kane


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## reveal (Mar 22, 2005)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Yeah I don't see Venom their either - to small, too sophisticated etc




You do realize this is the same guy who played Loyle, the goofy mechanic, on Wings right?


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## Alzrius (Mar 22, 2005)

I'd like to see Venom also. Really, I don't think it'd be butchering his origin story to make up something else. There's no way they'd fit in the entire Secret War just to introduce Venom after the fact (which is what happened in the comic), so the best thing to do is have the symbiote appear from space some other way.

Does anyone have a link to Raimi saying he doesn't like Venom? I don't want to believe something like that until I read it (then again, this is the guy who didn't go, apparently, for _Freddy vs. Jason vs. Ash_, so he does occasionally make bad decisions).


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## Ranger REG (Mar 23, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Let's see: Thomas Haden Church is about the same build as Eddie Brock and has blonde hair. I'm probably reaching here, but it wouldn't shock me if he was.



Actually, his face makes me think he's the Vulture. Either that or Elektro. I was so hoping they use Dr. Connor, aka The Lizard.


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## Villano (Mar 23, 2005)

What's great about Spider-Man is that he has so many good villains.  Church could be Mysterio, Electro, Shocker, or practially anyone else.   Hell, he might even be Sandman for all we know.

Hopefully, if they also bring back Harry Osborn, they'll make him Hobgoblin instead of Green Goblin 2.

Hmmm...Church as Hobgoblin?  Anythings possible.


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## Enkhidu (Mar 23, 2005)

Based on THC's age, I'm guessing they're going with Mysterio. At least that's who I'm crossing my finger's for - the master of illusion would be FABULOUS as the next villian.


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## David Howery (Mar 23, 2005)

did Spiderman ever face a villain called the Wasp?  Since there are some wasps that hunt big spiders and paralyze them for egg laying purposes, it seems a natural enemy name for one of Spidey's foes....


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## Dingleberry (Mar 23, 2005)

I don't think I've seen anyone mention Sandman.  That's my bet for Church.


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## Ranger REG (Mar 23, 2005)

Enkhidu said:
			
		

> Based on THC's age, I'm guessing they're going with Mysterio. At least that's who I'm crossing my finger's for - the master of illusion would be FABULOUS as the next villian.



Never did thought about Mysterio. That's a good one, too.


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## Logan (Mar 23, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> did Spiderman ever face a villain called the Wasp?  Since there are some wasps that hunt big spiders and paralyze them for egg laying purposes, it seems a natural enemy name for one of Spidey's foes....




One of the Avengers was a woman called the Wasp, and yes, her and Peter, despite being on the same side, did not get along to well. (wish I could tell you more, but I don't have the issue, and I can't seem to find the the summery I had of it, sorry)


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## Berandor (Mar 23, 2005)

Sandman. Nuff said.


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## Ranger REG (Mar 23, 2005)

Berandor said:
			
		

> Sandman. Nuff said.



Hmm. Nah. I always envision Sandman as more thuggish with a Bronx or a Brooklyn accent. No offense. Church may have played a dense goofy airplane mechanic on _Wings_ but I don't see him as thuggish.


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## Tonguez (Mar 23, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Hmm. Nah. I always envision Sandman as more thuggish with a Bronx or a Brooklyn accent. No offense. Church may have played a dense goofy airplane mechanic on _Wings_ but I don't see him as thuggish.




Yeah exactly and thats what I meant by being more sophisticated than Eddie Brock.

You know who's just come to mind as a cool villain- Black Cat in her Burglar years, maybe with a kingpin tie-in (ok maybe not this close to the catwoman debacle)


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## Berandor (Mar 23, 2005)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Yeah exactly and thats what I meant by being more sophisticated than Eddie Brock.
> 
> You know who's just come to mind as a cool villain- Black Cat in her Burglar years, maybe with a kingpin tie-in (ok maybe not this close to the catwoman debacle)



 No way Haden-Church is gonna be Black Cat!


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## Kanegrundar (Mar 23, 2005)

Berandor said:
			
		

> No way Haden-Church is gonna be Black Cat!



 LOL!!!  That just made my day!!!

Kane


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Mar 23, 2005)

Sandman was my first thought, but I see others have thought the same thing. Scorpion or Vulture would be neat to see, and the Beetle or the Chameleon would be nice, although they aren't nearly well know enough. Or maybe he's going to be the one, the only, Rocket Racer?


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## Psychic Warrior (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm hoping for a Kraven/Lizard double team on Spidey.  I always liked both of them as villians (one just a normal guy who is an expert hunter the other a person Spidey respects and admires).  I doubt either of them will be in the next movie so my guess is John Jamieson as Venom.


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## Staffan (Mar 23, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> did Spiderman ever face a villain called the Wasp?  Since there are some wasps that hunt big spiders and paralyze them for egg laying purposes, it seems a natural enemy name for one of Spidey's foes....



There was a sort of spiderwasp-demon, Shathra, that was after him about two years ago, but she hasn't been a recurring villain.


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## CrusaderX (Mar 23, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Well Jameson's son was already in space, they could easily say they brought back some rocks that contained "Venom" in them.




That's pretty much exactly how they did Venom's origin in the Spidey cartoon from the early-mid 90's.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 23, 2005)

Electro!      Don't really see it but...


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## reveal (Mar 23, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Electro!      Don't really see it but...




I was just thinking that this morning. He definitely could pull off the "everyman" role. I can see him as a normal guy who gets zapped and goes crazy with power.


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## spatha (Mar 23, 2005)

My guess would be Electro or Scorpion. Both big dumb guys. I think this would he would be a perfect match for either villain.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 23, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> BTW, Sam Raimi is on record as not liking Venom, so unless Marvel's basically told him he _has_ to include him, I wouldn't expect to see him--or Carnage--in the movie.



If you are correct, I shall become a religious man again, for we shall be saved from the WORST CHARACTERS EVER.  I HATE Venom, and Carnage was, if anything, worse.



			
				Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> I still stand by Venom.  Other than the Lizard most of Spidey's enemies (his oldest anyway) are pretty hokey.  Venom would be a good choice.



Are you seriously claiming that Venom was NOT hokey?



> Spidey would have to fight a dark, evil version of himself...



Exactly, reason #47 why Venom IS hokey.

Plus, he's the epitome of the done-to-death Marvel cliche of "EXTREME" versions of their characters.  Only then, he proved to be not EXTREME enough, so they went and made Carnage.  Ack!



			
				Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> I'm hoping for a Kraven/Lizard double team on Spidey.  I always liked both of them as villians (one just a normal guy who is an expert hunter the other a person Spidey respects and admires).



Both are good Villains individually, but I really think that the Batman franchise has proven that doubling your villains is a BAD IDEA.  Besides that, IME, the Spidey movies need to spend their time on developing the core characters, not on extraneous villain exposition.


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## Kanegrundar (Mar 23, 2005)

Canis said:
			
		

> Are you seriously claiming that Venom was NOT hokey?




For me?  I don't think Venom was hokey until they turned him into an anti-hero.  I always liked Venom before that.  Each to their own, I guess.

As far as the butchering of Venom's origin.  It can be done, but my major failing in movies based off of books and comics and whatever that I love is that I'm a total purist.  I can get past it if done right, but some things (like the possible change of Angel to a chick in the next X-Men movie) just tick me off.  If it ain't broke, don't fix it.  However, to put in Venom's actual origin as written in the comics would require too much, so the cartoon's origin would work pretty well.

Kane


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## Desdichado (Mar 23, 2005)

How can you be a total purist?  We already have three published Venom origins -- original canon, the animated cartoon, and the Ultimate version.  All three are radically different.  Which one is the "pure, right" one and why?

If Venom is included, and I think he's a great choice as, despite Canis' objections, he's a wildly popular character, we'll almost certainly up that to four Venom origins.


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## Kanegrundar (Mar 23, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> How can you be a total purist?  We already have three published Venom origins -- original canon, the animated cartoon, and the Ultimate version.  All three are radically different.  Which one is the "pure, right" one and why?




For me, it's the one that first appeared in the original canon.  I stopped buying comics before The Ultimates series came out, so I don't know anything about it.  The cartoon is never considered pure since there are things that are always changed for the sake of trying to cram in all the best stories into a small time frame out of decades of material.  The first appearance from the original comics (not the Ultimates resetting) is usually the origin that I go with.  

Kane


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## devilish (Mar 23, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Hmm. Nah. I always envision Sandman as more thuggish with a Bronx or a Brooklyn accent. No offense. Church may have played a dense goofy airplane mechanic on _Wings_ but I don't see him as thuggish.




He wasn't bad in 'Sideways' -- that movie (and probably Ned and Stacy) dispelled
his goofy-idiot phase for me.

Shame it's not Kraven -- he would break from the experiment-gone-wrong
theme (though he was hyped up on enhancement drugs, he was more a 
hunter than science experiment).  

He would also fit with the psychological direction that Raimi has been going in.
"Killing" Spiderman and taking his place --- only to lose his mind when
he took on the mantle.


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## Cannibal_Kender (Mar 23, 2005)

I'm still thinking its gonna be a Lizard/Green Goblin 2 tag team on our friendly neighborhood web-slinger.


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## CrusaderX (Mar 23, 2005)

Canis said:
			
		

> Plus, he's the epitome of the done-to-death Marvel cliche of "EXTREME" versions of their characters.  Only then, he proved to be not EXTREME enough, so they went and made Carnage.  Ack!




Marvel has recently taken it to the EXTREME again.  Now there's a third major symbiote, named Toxin, who's getting his own miniseries.

Seriously.


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## Mouseferatu (Mar 23, 2005)

For those of us who gave up comics a while back, what _is_ the "Ultimates" origin of Venom?


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 23, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Marvel has recently taken it to the EXTREME again.  Now there's a third major symbiote, named Toxin, who's getting his own miniseries.
> 
> Seriously.



<sigh>  As if the continuity gap wasn't enough to keep me from ever picking up a superhero comic again, they have to perpetuate their stupidity to the nth degree.

...grumble.... back in MY day.... blah.. blah...


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## Staffan (Mar 23, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> For those of us who gave up comics a while back, what _is_ the "Ultimates" origin of Venom?



I don't recall it exactly, but basically the symbiote is an experiment in treating cancer that Peter's father worked on along with Eddie Brock's father (Eddie Brock is a college student, BTW). Peter finds it in a canister in a lab or something, tries it on, and becomes stronger, faster, tougher when he wears it. However, after a while (within the span of one comic book IIRC) he realizes that it's also doing stuff to his mind, so he forces the symbiote off him. Then the symbiote searches out Eddie instead (presumably he was pretty close to where Eddie was).


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## Mouseferatu (Mar 23, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> I don't recall it exactly, but basically the symbiote is an experiment in treating cancer that Peter's father worked on along with Eddie Brock's father (Eddie Brock is a college student, BTW). Peter finds it in a canister in a lab or something, tries it on, and becomes stronger, faster, tougher when he wears it. However, after a while (within the span of one comic book IIRC) he realizes that it's also doing stuff to his mind, so he forces the symbiote off him. Then the symbiote searches out Eddie instead (presumably he was pretty close to where Eddie was).




Wow, that's... Dumb.

Unnecessary link to Peter's parents? Check. (I'm not a fan of bringing weirdness into character's relatives' backstory unless it's absolutely necessary; I can never get past the sheer coindicence of it all.)

Compaction of what could have been a long-term plot-point and character development into the smallest span of time possible? Check.

Was there at least some long-standing grudge between Eddie and Peter, or did they ditch that, too?

I don't understand the whole Ultimates thing. I admit I haven't read them in detail, but everything I've picked up and flipped through, and everything I've heard, is just far less interesting than the original versions of the characters.  :\

Appreciate the response, though.


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## Tonguez (Mar 23, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Marvel has recently taken it to the EXTREME again.  Now there's a third major symbiote, named Toxin, who's getting his own miniseries.
> 
> Seriously.




Ack no wonder I haven't read any comics since Swamp Thing finished



			
				Berandor said:
			
		

> No way Haden-Church is gonna be Black Cat!




Lol yes um


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## Staffan (Mar 24, 2005)

As I check plot summaries online, I see I wasn't entirely correct before. So, for your edification, I present links to those plot summaries:
#33: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/104181393787716.htm
#34: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/1042496438320.htm
#35: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/104380151184713.htm
#36: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/104526781985955.htm
#37: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/104759285124110.htm
#38: http://www.silverbulletcomicbooks.com/reviews/104940738469648.htm


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## Psychic Warrior (Mar 24, 2005)

Canis said:
			
		

> Both are good Villains individually, but I really think that the Batman franchise has proven that doubling your villains is a BAD IDEA.  Besides that, IME, the Spidey movies need to spend their time on developing the core characters, not on extraneous villain exposition.




I think Kraven and Lizard are actually a good match up.  Mr Freeze and Poison Ivy (or Two Face and The Riddler for that matter) were terrible - they had no common ground.  Kraven could have 'tamed' the Lizard and now uses him as a hunting 'dog'.  If I had to pick just one I would defiantely say Kraven though they would hopefully update his wardrobe.

Venom/Carnage (Toxin?) are bland and boring to me.  Spiderman villians should have a deeper psychological side to them beyond 'I kill people so that makes me ba-a-a-d!'


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## John Crichton (Mar 24, 2005)

I like Venom (I wouldn't bet on him being in a Raimi directed Spidey) but Church looks right for Sandman and Kraven.  Either are ok with me.


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## Frostmarrow (Mar 24, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Wow, that's... Dumb.
> 
> Unnecessary link to Peter's parents? Check. (I'm not a fan of bringing weirdness into character's relatives' backstory unless it's absolutely necessary; I can never get past the sheer coindicence of it all.)
> 
> ...




Wasn't Peter Parker's parents government-agents killed by the Red Skull (or something*) on a mission in Latin America? Looks like Peter's dad was also a medical research scientist.

* I just remember it was a dude with a red skull for a head.

 

My favorite was always Kraven, however I can't make him fit the 21st century in my mind. I don't think he'd fit in the movies either. I'd go for the astronaut plot with JJJ as the scheming villain and his son as the violent one. And with Connors/Lizard thrown in for a brief combat encounter, of course.


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## Cthulhudrew (Mar 24, 2005)

It's pretty obvious who Haden-Church is going to be playing-

The Strobe!!

Seriously, though, I'm guessing either Electro or Mysterio.


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## Welverin (Mar 24, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Do I smell Venom?!




Blech! I really don't want to see Venom in SM3, or any that come after it.



			
				Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Kraven




This is who I want to see next, and I know exactly how the movie should start, Kill Bill be damned!


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## Desdichado (Mar 24, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> I don't recall it exactly, but basically the symbiote is an experiment in treating cancer that Peter's father worked on along with Eddie Brock's father (Eddie Brock is a college student, BTW). Peter finds it in a canister in a lab or something, tries it on, and becomes stronger, faster, tougher when he wears it. However, after a while (within the span of one comic book IIRC) he realizes that it's also doing stuff to his mind, so he forces the symbiote off him. Then the symbiote searches out Eddie instead (presumably he was pretty close to where Eddie was).



That's roughly right, but not quite.  Peter actually destroyed the symboite, but Eddie had another copy, because, hey, Brock and Parker senior were research partners.  Eddie was pretty pissed at Peter for ditching their father's creation, but I don't remember exactly else is grudge was.  He was pissed about something though...

Ultimate Carnage, although he looked cool, was pretty dumb though; the symbiote that Peter "destroyed" apparently was able to repair itself somewhat, and it went around attacking and mummifying people, including Gwen Stacey, IIRC.  Kinda defeats the purpose of calling it a symbiote if it doesn't actually need to enter a symbiotic relationship with anything...


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## Nareau (Mar 24, 2005)

I only ever collected McFarlane's Spider Man, so take this with a grain of salt.  But to me, the "classic" Spidey villians are:  Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Kingpin, Lizard, and Venom.  Those are the ones that just about everybody knows about, including people who aren't big-time comics-fans.  I'd be surprised if they brought in any lesser-known villian, for the simple fact that the moviegoing public would probably say, "Kraven who?"

Don't mean to step on any toes--just pointing out that they'll probably stick to the most well-known Spiderman BBEG's for financial reasons.

Spider


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## Taelorn76 (Mar 24, 2005)

Here is an update on the villians for SM3

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050323e.php.

Obviously it's not concrete info, but at this stage in production what is


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## Desdichado (Mar 24, 2005)

A quick comment (1) and a question (2):

What I'd ideally like to see is a 10-15 minute intro in the vein of James Bond opening sequences wherein Spidey takes down a minor super-villain.  That way you can cameo old skool villains like Rhino or Scorpion, or Electro, or what-have-you, yet not entangle the actual main plot of the movie with too many villains.
I guess I'm a bit out of touch.  Can anyone explain this Toxin character to me in a nutshell, and (even more importantly) point me to an online gallery of pictures of him?


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 24, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Here is an update on the villians for SM3
> 
> http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050323e.php.
> 
> Obviously it's not concrete info, but at this stage in production what is



Still... it does not bode well.  Venom as the villain might actually keep me out of the theater, because it will be the first sign that marketing has won over screenwriting.



			
				Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> ...What I'd ideally like to see is a 10-15 minute intro in the vein of James Bond opening sequences wherein Spidey takes down a minor super-villain.  That way you can cameo old skool villains like Rhino or Scorpion, or Electro, or what-have-you, yet not entangle the actual main plot of the movie with too many villains...



That's actually a really good idea.  I'd vote for it.


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## Taelorn76 (Mar 24, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> A quick comment (1) and a question (2):
> 
> What I'd ideally like to see is a 10-15 minute intro in the vein of James Bond opening sequences wherein Spidey takes down a minor super-villain.  That way you can cameo old skool villains like Rhino or Scorpion, or Electro, or what-have-you, yet not entangle the actual main plot of the movie with too many villains.




I'll second that motion


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## Welverin (Mar 24, 2005)

Spider said:
			
		

> I only ever collected McFarlane's Spider Man, so take this with a grain of salt.  But to me, the "classic" Spidey villians are:  Green Goblin, Doctor Octopus, Kingpin, Lizard, and Venom.  Those are the ones that just about everybody knows about, including people who aren't big-time comics-fans.  I'd be surprised if they brought in any lesser-known villian, for the simple fact that the moviegoing public would probably say, "Kraven who?"




I'd say it doesn't matter at all, because as far as the majority of the movie going public is concerned they're all lesser known villains that instill a "_____ who?" response.



			
				Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I guess I'm a bit out of touch.  Can anyone explain this Toxin character to me in a nutshell, and (even more importantly) point me to an online gallery of pictures of him?




Nope, I can't say I've ever even heard of him before. He hasn't even gotten a mention in ASM yet.


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## Cthulhudrew (Mar 24, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I guess I'm a bit out of touch.  Can anyone explain this Toxin character to me in a nutshell, and (even more importantly) point me to an online gallery of pictures of him?




He first appeared in the Venom/Carnage LS that came out last year, in #1 to be exact. From what I know, he's a police officer that was impregnated with Carnage's symbiote kid. He's a good guy symbiote. That's about all I know. You should be able to find some reviews of it... here's one.

Here's a picture of Toxin from the cover of his upcoming series.

As for Venom being the villain, Raimi has gone on record before as saying he didn't like the character, and he definitely seems to have a lot of control over the Spider-Man scripts and direction. Whether he's changed his mind or not, I couldn't say.

He's also said that he didn't really like Electro or Sandman- who were evidently in the original script for #1- because he prefers villains that resonate with the character of Peter Parker, and have some connection to him. Again, that may have only been his feelings about the first movie, and now that Pete's somewhat established, he may have changed his mind.

I wouldn't put too much stock in the Man-Wolf/Venom reports that are coming out. I've seen reports debunking those rumors as well already.


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## Taelorn76 (Mar 25, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> He first appeared in the Venom/Carnage LS that came out last year, in #1 to be exact. From what I know, he's a police officer that was impregnated with Carnage's symbiote kid. He's a good guy symbiote. That's about all I know. You should be able to find some reviews of it... here's one.
> 
> Here's a picture of Toxin from the cover of his upcoming series.




Thats a good guy?


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## Villano (Mar 25, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> A quick comment (1) and a question (2):
> 
> What I'd ideally like to see is a 10-15 minute intro in the vein of James Bond opening sequences wherein Spidey takes down a minor super-villain.  That way you can cameo old skool villains like Rhino or Scorpion, or Electro, or what-have-you, yet not entangle the actual main plot of the movie with too many villains.






I like that idea.  It would help establish that there are more supervillains in the world (that don't have an origin connected to Spidey).  I'd pick a minor villain rather than the ones you listed.  Some semi-forgotten character like Tarantula, Trapster, Scarecrow, Vermin, or Jack O'Lantern.


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## AFGNCAAP (Mar 25, 2005)

Though I hope it isn't so, I could see THC as Venom, or rather, as Brock--a rather unethical man who'll do what he can to get the scoop, even if it means wrecking someone's life by doing so (Brock's already popped up name-wise in the films, so it's viable).

Then again, what if THC is Hobgoblin--Harry wants revenge against Pete/Spidey, but isn't willing to don the GG suit and use the formula to do so?  Enter one Jason Macendale, merc for hire.  Harry gives Hobby the task of taking out Spidey, and can be present when Hobby attacks (giving him an alibi & making Spidey guess who could be behind the mask).


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## Psychic Warrior (Mar 25, 2005)

Canis said:
			
		

> Still... it does not bode well.  Venom as the villain might actually keep me out of the theater, because it will be the first sign that marketing has won over screenwriting.




???  I don't think I quite understand.  You mean the first two movies weren't market driven?  You mean _anything_ coming out of Hollywood these days isn't market driven?


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## John Crichton (Mar 25, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Thats a good guy?



 My thoughts exactly.  He looks like he's about to eat the entire room.

Oi.


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## Cthulhudrew (Mar 25, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly.  He looks like he's about to eat the entire room.
> 
> Oi.




I guess it's a little more complicated than that, though I don't know enough about Toxin to say for sure. Here's the solicit for Toxin #1, though:

TOXIN #1 (OF 6)
Written by Peter Milligan
Penciled by Darick Robertson
Painted Cover by ESAD RIBIC

As each new generation of men must hand down the torch to the next, so each new generation of alien symbiotes must hand down the, ah, stringy, fleshy tendrils.  So move over Venom, step aside Carnage, because TOXIN is getting his own limited series as Spider-Man Month continues with a nod to NEW AVENGERS! When a full-scale jailbreak [see NEW AVENGERS] leaves New York overrun with super villains, Pat sees the perfect opportunity to use the creature sharing his body for good. But Toxin might have other ideas! Featuring a special guest appearance by Spider-Man and a different villain encounter every issue!
32 PGS./Marvel PSR …$2.99

Both the Venom/Carnage series and Toxin are being written by Peter Milligan, so there will be some consistency between the character at least. Peter Milligan is also known best (to me) for his excellent Human Target series from DC/Vertigo- which has sadly been cancelled. He's really, really good at character driven, character intensive stories, so I'd imagine he'll really get into the head of the Toxin/Symbiote combo. I've never read any of his superhero stories (he wrote X-Statics with Mike Allred a few years ago), so I don't know if his non-spandex work translates as well across genres. Some writers don't do the transition well- I love Azzarello's 100 Bullets, but I wasn't very impressed with his Batman, for instance.

Anyway, I'm sure someone else might have some more Toxin info if you want more. You might check out the spider-man boards at Comicboards if you want some more info. I'm sure the archives will have something.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Mar 26, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> ???  I don't think I quite understand.  You mean the first two movies weren't market driven?  You mean _anything_ coming out of Hollywood these days isn't market driven?



Not PURELY market-driven, no.  Raimi, for one, seems to have a fair amount of respect for the source material.


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## Xath (Mar 26, 2005)

I'm going to vote that Harry Osborne is going to become Hobgoblin.  Either that or he'll be Green Goblin, but I think they'll go with the new villain rather than the rehash.  They set up for it at the end of 2; I don't think they'll skip out on it.


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## Nuclear Platypus (Mar 27, 2005)

How bout this for an James Bond-ish opener / movie? The Scorpion vs Spiderman! Naturally Scorpy fails miserably to thwack Spidey. However, JJJ didn't sponsor the project that created him (like the comics) but Harry Osborn! In frustration, he hires other mercs like Jack O'Lantern / Hobgoblin or Kraven to take down his former friend or even Mysterio to really screw with Peter's head. 

Other classic Spidey mooks include:
the Shocker
Vulture (really mess with people and have -this- be Curt Connors!)
Rhino (also could be a result of Harry's experiments with his dad's stuff)
Owlman
Electro (ditch the starfish mask tho)
the Beetle (Spidey could make jokes like "Where's Sgt Pepper when you need him?", etc) 
Boomerang
Spider Slayers?
Bonesaw McGraw (Snap into a Slim Jim! Ooo yeah!)


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## Taelorn76 (Mar 29, 2005)

*Church's character revealed?*

Dark Horizons reports that Thomas Hayden Church will be playing The Sandman.

http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050329c.php


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## Ranger REG (Mar 29, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Dark Horizons reports that Thomas Hayden Church will be playing The Sandman.
> 
> http://www.darkhorizons.com/news05/050329c.php



Their report is based on AICN scoop.

I have to admit, this is disappointing, although perhaps the producers are thinking of the wrong kind of sandman. You know? The fairy tale version of the hooded guy that comes to you and sprinkle sand so you can sleep and dream.


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## mojo1701 (Mar 29, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> I have to admit, this is disappointing, although perhaps the producers are thinking of the wrong kind of sandman. You know? The fairy tale version of the hooded guy that comes to you and sprinkle sand so you can sleep and dream.




So if it's boring, it'll be like the sandman putting me to sleep.


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## Plane Sailing (Mar 29, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> BTW, Sam Raimi is on record as not liking Venom, so unless Marvel's basically told him he _has_ to include him, I wouldn't expect to see him--or Carnage--in the movie.




Oh, I do hope that turns out to be true. I thought Venom etc. was a stupid idea with stupid execution. Some of the worst concepts for spidey villains, developed in an idea when Marvel couldn't write good stories so they went as over-the-top as they could.

I'm hoping for the Lizard, personally.

Cheers


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## Tonguez (Mar 29, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Their report is based on AICN scoop.
> 
> I have to admit, this is disappointing, although perhaps the producers are thinking of the wrong kind of sandman. You know? The fairy tale version of the hooded guy that comes to you and sprinkle sand so you can sleep and dream.




You know this is a brilliant marketing ploy - now you can sell kids a packet full of dirt and tell them its a Sandman action figure!


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## Ranger REG (Mar 29, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> So if it's boring, it'll be like the sandman putting me to sleep.



Well, if this is to be the last _Spider-Man_ film, then thing should come full circle with Peter Parker and Harry Osbourne (soon-to-be Hobgoblin). Maybe that part of the movie will be something to stay awake.


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