# D&D General So...How many D&D clones/SRDs are we going to see?



## Sacrosanct

With the whole 1.1 debacle, even if WoTC backtracks, it seems like everyone and their grandma's dog will create their own SRD/attempted clone of D&D using either their own license, or Creative Commons.

I wanted to try to compile a list of the biggest efforts.  On the plus side, it gives a lot more choice.  On the negative side, with too many options, no one gets noticed in the pile.  IMO, in order to be successful, it needs to be one or two systems that everyone else uses.  Only a unified system is going to leave any lasting mark and allow that system to grow and be successful.  As much as I'd love to put out my own CC system, I know collaboration is the key.

And that's the hard part.  We designers all have things we love, so in order to be successful, you'll have to set pride aside and leave your favorite mechanic on the cutting room floor if necessary for collaboration.

So what do we have out there?
IIRC Mark Borg doesn't use the OGL but it's own system.
Same with Chaosium 
A handful of industry professionals and I are working on a CC system.


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## Tales and Chronicles

Any chance of having a non ogl bugbear and borderland?


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## Sacrosanct

Tales and Chronicles said:


> Any chance of having a non ogl bugbear and borderland?



Well, the whole point was to make it a basic version of 5e, so...  

It would be hard to do and avoid using 5e SRD mechanics/terms.


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## Zardnaar

As I understand it cloning the OGL/SRD is fine but cloning D&D could be a lot harder. 

 A simple cease and desist can more or less shut you down unless you want to fight it. 

 Basically your "clone" would have to avoid D&D mechanics to be totally safe.


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## payn

I could see a bunch of third party folks coming together to make a new OGL. I dont think we will see a bunch of them rising up on their own. There just isnt market share for that to work out as the existence of OGL 1.0 attests.


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## Sacrosanct

payn said:


> I could see a bunch of third party folks coming together to make a new OGL. I dont think we will see a bunch of them rising up on their own. There just isnt market share for that to work out as the existence of OGL 1.0 attests.



I agree there isn't market share, but I'm reading from a lot of folks who are doing it.  And as you say, I fear 99% of these will be lost in the chaff. Heck, I've been approached by no fewer than three other 3PP wanting to know if I would collaborate on one.  I did choose to work with someone I've worked with in the past, and he brought on board a half dozen or so other experienced creators/publishers.  So depending on how things shuffle out in the near future, we might be working on one.


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## dave2008

Couldn't Paizo do this with PF2? I don't think they would have to change that much to divorce if completely from the OGL and then they just need to write a CC license. I mean for all intents and purposes PF is D&D.


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## jmartkdr2

dave2008 said:


> Couldn't Paizo do this with PF2? I don't think they would have to change that much to divorce if completely from the OGL and then they just need to write a CC license. I mean for all intents and purposes PF is D&D.



They certainly can, but I’m not sure PF2 is really the game to capture the current player zeitgeist: it’s not really a game where you can play as an isekai protagonist.

My best guess: it’ll be like the mid-to-late 80’s where there were dozens of games around and half a dozen actually played in your local community. This is overall a good thing because players will get used to the idea of trying new games from time to time. Until eventually someone hits the new zeitgeist just right a la World of Darkness and/or we get another odd-numbered DnD edition bringing people back to the roots.


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## dave2008

jmartkdr2 said:


> They certainly can, but I’m not sure PF2 is really the game to capture the current player zeitgeist: it’s not really a game where you can play as an isekai protagonist.



But it is possible it could be. The whole point is to let the community expand what it can do.  Just like 3PP took 5e in a lot of directions WotC didn't, couldn't, or would not.  The 3PP community could do the same for PF2. I know I am think about how I can convert my 5e game to PF2 and how I can convert my upcoming/planned 5e update to the BECMI "Immortals" rules to PF2. It has been a while since I looked at PF2, but I feel like there is a lot of room to modify the game to accomplish many different styles of play. Possibly even more than 5e has to offer.


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## Vaalingrade

Not as many as one would expect as a lot of the ones I've seen bandied about are 1) lots of creators coming together instead of going alone and 2) the D&D fanbase will call 'not D&D'..


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## Cadence

Vaalingrade said:


> Not as many as one would expect as a lot of the ones I've seen bandied about are 1) lots of creators coming together instead of going alone and 2) the D&D fanbase will call 'not D&D'..




NDD vs. DND?


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

jmartkdr2 said:


> They certainly can, but I’m not sure PF2 is really the game to capture the current player zeitgeist



It doesn't need to be. An OGL just needs to be a framework people can freely build upon or modify, including stripping things away.


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## overgeeked

Sacrosanct said:


> On the negative side, with too many options, no one gets noticed in the pile.



That's what will happen.


Sacrosanct said:


> IMO, in order to be successful, it needs to be one or two systems that everyone else uses. Only a unified system is going to leave any lasting mark and allow that system to grow and be successful.  As much as I'd love to put out my own CC system, I know collaboration is the key.



I doubt that will happen. 5E was a big tent holding several distinct groups together _artificially_. Each of these groups wants different things out of the game and want different levels of complexity and have different preferences re: simulationist, gamist, narrativist, OC-focus, etc. No one game is going to appeal equally to all players of all preferences. Not even 5E did that. It was name recognition, critical mass, and all the OGL 3PP that propelled them.


Sacrosanct said:


> We designers all have things we love, so in order to be successful, you'll have to set pride aside and leave your favorite mechanic on the cutting room floor if necessary for collaboration.
> 
> So what do we have out there?



There's the FKR. Savage Worlds. Fate. Etc. There's not likely to be a D&D killer. We're in the fantasy Heartbreaker 2.0 era.


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## hojulation

Year Zero Engine has an SRD, I think they host it on the Free League Forums.


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