# Great Villain Showdown: The Final Match! [The Winner is..]



## Gomez (Aug 11, 2005)

Ok we are finally down to two Villains from a group of 128! The criminal clown known as the Joker, Archenemy of Batman against the Sith in Black, Darth Vader! Thanks everyone for playing this fun exercise. May the worst man win! 

*Final Match!*

*The Joker [34] defeats Darth Vader [20]! *


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## ShadowDenizen (Aug 11, 2005)

Meh.
Coyote should be the winner.    

Of these two?
Joker.  He's escaped death more times than I can keep track of.


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## kitoy (Aug 11, 2005)

Darth Vader, of course.  The Dark Lord of the Sith is the best villain *because* he was once a good boy with a lot of potential.  He let little things get to him.  He gave in to his fears and his doubts.  He always had the best of intentions, but you know where those lead.  He's an example of what could happen to any of us, only he is strong with the Force.

I love the Joker, but he's basically an insane clown with a bag full of tricks and he would be gone with one swipe of a lightsaber.


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## griff_goodbeard (Aug 11, 2005)

My vote has to go to the only villain who ever gave me nightmares as a kid.   Vader all the way.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Aug 11, 2005)

Vader.

Vaderific.

Vaderastic.


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## reveal (Aug 11, 2005)

I vote *Joker* even though I know Vader will win.


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## Tonguez (Aug 11, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I vote *Joker* even though I know Vader will win.




your just being contrary

so *GODZILLA* - try and force choke him/it Lord Vader!!!!


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## jasper (Aug 11, 2005)

joker 
 A crazy guy not a middle age old man who never learn to love his mother, trust his wife, and was into pity parties.


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 11, 2005)

The Joker vs Darth Vader!  

How did Willey loose!


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## RangerWickett (Aug 11, 2005)

I vote for the Joker because I _enjoy_ watching the Joker as a villain. I am _embarrassed_ of Vader when I see him now.

Vader would brute force his way through things, brooding about it afterward, wheezing because he's out of shape. Vader is a bull-headed geek. He probably hasn't showered in 30 years. Maybe if we weren't counting the prequels, _maybe_ I could have him in the running. But Vader is nothing more than an intimidating presence. He never does anything!

The Joker would trick people into death traps, laugh at them, torture their families, then make his escape, letting the hero get away so he could do it all again, assuming the hero's mind hasn't broken and landed him in Arkham Asylum. The Joker is an evil genius. He's scary. He is the modern classic of insanity, of the darkest and cruelest urges of humanity.

Vader is a whining prat.

And, let us not forget, Mark Hamill, the greatest actor to portray the Joker, already beat Vader once.


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## Talgian (Aug 11, 2005)

Imagine you are in a pitch black room. You've just woken up, and you hear a noise. The most terrifying noise you know. Is it the high-pitched laughter of a maniac? No, it's cold, calculating breath of the most terrifying villian to inhabit any galaxy, at any time.

*The Dark Lord of the Sith, Darth Vader*

Carry on,
-Talgian


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 11, 2005)

The Joker. All the way. No questions.

Although I know Vader will win at this rate... is anyone surprised by this development?

Demiurge out.


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## Krafus (Aug 11, 2005)

Darth Vader, of course. He's got the costume, the weapon, the background, the music, the movie series. What more could a villain ask for?


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## Eosin the Red (Aug 11, 2005)

Gotta be VADER


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## Particle_Man (Aug 11, 2005)

This one is tricky, but I think, in the end, I will give the nod to The Joker.

I mean, both have killed kids.  Both have killed their own followers.  But the Joker has better writers.  

Read Alan Moore's The Killing Joke to see what I am getting at.

That said, I am pessimistic on The Man Who Laughs's chances.  But The Joker would be the first to acknowledge that nothing is fair, nothing makes sense, etc.  And then he would kill you.


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## ConnorSB (Aug 11, 2005)

Its the V to the A to the DER
Reconstructing the death star, 
with my slick swade suite thats black like tar
F'ing you up no mater who you are.

Yah... you know my feelings on this.l


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## Mad Hatter (Aug 11, 2005)

What are you talking about Vader is scarier in the dark?  Vader will kill you no doubt.  But Joker will torture.  No remorse and no reason.  He'll just do it for kicks and giggles.  Vader has a purpose.  Tell me you don't fear the madman who'll kill your for no other reason than because he can.  Joker has never spent a single night thinking that he didn't have to kill someone.  


JOKER gets my vote.


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## d'Anconia (Aug 11, 2005)

Vader, no question in my mind.


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## Wombat (Aug 11, 2005)

purty simple...

Darth has some vaguely redeeming qualities and turns into Mr. Potato Head at the end of Ep. 3 (6 for you newbies)

OTOH...

The Joker is vile, insane, evil, manic, creative, is willing to kill people off just to have a laugh, and has a much better dress sense.

The Joker for me


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## drothgery (Aug 11, 2005)

*The Joker.*

I'm voting against Vader more than for the Joker.

He should have gone down long ago. Anyone who spent three movies as a whiny brat, and ended his career sacrificing himself to save the hero just doesn't belong at the top of the villian pantheon.


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## Furtive Noise (Aug 12, 2005)

The Joker


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## Cthulhudrew (Aug 12, 2005)

This is easily the toughest decision I've had so far in this contest. In the end, I'm going to vote for the Joker, by the narrowest of margins, and largely because I'm such a comic book junkie.

But I just have to say I'm not entirely at ease with the decision...


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Aug 12, 2005)

Vader. I like Star Wars much more than Batman.


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## warlord (Aug 12, 2005)

Darth Vader: He's the Dark Lord of the Sith he'd judt choke the life out of that stupid clown before he could try anything.


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## Klaus (Aug 12, 2005)

You're a common man, an ordinary man. You have hopes, dreams, and something that brings you joy. But one day it all goes away. Your hopes. Your dreams. Everything you loved. Even your face. Then you get it. The meaning of life, the reason for being, the purpose of Man. It's all a joke. A terrible, cruel joke. And then you snap. You find a new purpose.

You will be the punchline. You will laugh in the face of death, because you will be staring at the mirror.

I have read the Killing Joke, JLA: The Nail ("John Francis Bacon"). I have watched Batman Beyond: Return of the Joker.

The Joker wins.


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## Renton (Aug 12, 2005)

Joker.


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## Dark Jezter (Aug 12, 2005)

I pick Darth Vader.  For me, he's _the_ iconic villain, regardless of the medium.


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## Templetroll (Aug 12, 2005)

I choose the Joker.  

(My wife and daughter chose Vader.  There is no joy under this bridge tonight!)


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## Kelleris (Aug 12, 2005)

*Joker.  * 

Though all my favoritest favorites have already lost (Cthulhu, Wile E., a few others).


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## Masquerade (Aug 12, 2005)

J

O

K

E

R


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## DarrenGMiller (Aug 12, 2005)

Easy.

*JOKER.*  Hands down.  No contest.  He is the embodiment of chaos.  He lives only to cause as much mayhem as possible.

Remember that Vader started life as a whiny little brat who took the easy way out and later changed course again when things were grim.

DM


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## Lorgrom (Aug 12, 2005)

J O K E R (considering Cthluth was no longer in the running, pouting)


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## Testament (Aug 12, 2005)

My vote was decided by one thing.  Vader is a fallen hero who was redeemed.  Joker is irredeemable.

The Joker wins.


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## Barendd Nobeard (Aug 12, 2005)

Joker.

I was going to vote Vader, but realized that if I woke up in a room....and one of them wanted to torture me....at least with Vader I could just give him the information and maybe avoid the torture.  But the Joker?  You can't bargain with a madman, even if you have something he wants.


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## DonTadow (Aug 12, 2005)

JOKER Hands down


Unfortuneately only one of these two beings is still a villian and that's the JOker.  NO redemption for him, no shiney ending, no son, no daughter only more mayham and laughter.  The jokes on you vader.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Aug 12, 2005)

Joker


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## ddvmor (Aug 12, 2005)

Joker. By a mile.

look at it this way: Joker and Darth Vader are escaping from the asylum and find themselves on the roof with a large gap between them and the next roof... and freedom.

Vader turns to the Joker and says 'I know, I'll shine my torch across the gap and you can walk along it to freedom'.

'I may be mad', says the Joker, 'but I'm not stupid. You'd turn it off when I was half way across!'

And then he kills Vader with an imaginative combination of a giant jack-in-the-box, smylex gas and an acid spitting lapel flower. Vader never stood a chance.


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## Medwyn (Aug 12, 2005)

*The Joker!*

The Joker


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## Dougal DeKree (Aug 12, 2005)

Episode 3 ruined Vader, as stated before.

So, JOKER!


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## mrtauntaun (Aug 12, 2005)

Vader.


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## MonsterMash (Aug 12, 2005)

*Joker*


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## Maerdwyn (Aug 12, 2005)

Joker


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## Kilmore (Aug 12, 2005)

Vader


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## Endur (Aug 12, 2005)

I think the Joker is going to win this one.  The Joker has been a great villain.  Really great.  But Darth Vader is coolness, and the original Star Wars movie was CLASSIC.  I'm really uncertain who to vote for.

I vote for Joker.


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## takyris (Aug 12, 2005)

The Joker, and it ain't particularly close. Vader is good as an opponent and provides a satisfying figure in black for Luke to fight in the first three movies, and he's cool as a foe set up to be defeated... but the Joker is the one who actually scares me.

Implacable isn't as scary to me as unpredictable. Vader is going to come after you because you've joined the rebellion and have information he needs. The Joker is going to come after you because he liked your shoes. Vader is going to threaten to kill you, your wife, and your children if you don't cooperate. The Joker is going to kill one of your children for no reason right off the bat and then start cutting off your wife's fingers one by one, one per hour until you get him what he needs.

All Vader can do is kill you. For the Joker, that's just the tip of the iceberg, and it might be the most relaxing thing he does to you all day.


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## Jarrod (Aug 12, 2005)

Joker. 

Vader was a cool badass, but when you get down to it he's just a hitman. He is, fundamentally, understandable; "order in the galaxy by whatever means" really comes down to "I will make people do what I want them to do, by force if necessary". He can be reasoned with. He can be predicted.

Take the Joker. He is what is scary about chaos: he breaks down all of the structure that mankind builds up. The fear deep within us is simple: we inherently expect the universe, and by extension other men, to be rational. If I do X, then you will do Y. If I push an object, it moves. To have anything else happen undermines this most fundamental assumption. This is the fear that the Cthulhoid mythos plays off of, and it is this same fear that the Joker embodies.


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## Pielorinho (Aug 12, 2005)

Although I think Vader is a wonderfully iconic villain, the Joker is more complex.  He is chaos, of course, but there's an underlying theme to his chaos which I find entrancing.  I'll vote for

Joker.

Daniel


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## Jai Kel (Aug 12, 2005)

Lord Vader.


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## stevelabny (Aug 13, 2005)

DARTH VADER

? I have no idea what is going on.

Some people hate the prequels so much, they are completely devaluing the effect that the original trilogy has on all (most?) of us.

Others are saying the Vader epitomizes cool villain , but giving the nod to Joker anyway.

And the last group are giving the win to Joker outright, talking about he epitomized chaos and is therefore scarier.

Joker is just a psychotic with an unhealthy man-crush on another psychotic.  He's had just as many embarassing moments as teenage-Vader, they just havent been publicized to the same level as the prequels. 

Vader was the front man for a reign of terror that last an entire generation. For over 20 years, he was the symbol of fear throughout the galaxy. Until he faced his own son, nobody was able to stop him.

The Joker? He gets beaten and thrown in an asylum every other week, and only continues to live because Batman is still an 8 year old with issues about death.  Any SANE hero would have ended Joker's career....permanently.

the vote goes where it was always gonna go... to a Vader victory.


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## Aexalon (Aug 13, 2005)

Darth Sidious! "Now you pay the price for your lack of vision!" *Lightning*

Oh, wait, we've already passed the point where Vader tossed Palpy down the generator shaft ... Ok, *Vader* will do then (even though he wasn't technically a villain by that time anymore...)


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## reveal (Aug 13, 2005)

stevelabny said:
			
		

> Some people hate the prequels so much, they are completely devaluing the effect that the original trilogy has on all (most?) of us.




Like I said previously, before the sequels I would have voted Vader the baddest villain there is. He was pure, cold, calculating evil who let nothing get in his way. Unfortunately, the prequels made him seem more like a kid who was manipulated into becoming evil than someone who was purely evil. This vote is supposed to be about the best villain, not the villain who had the biggest impact on us. The Joker is also cold and manipulating. True, he gets beat a lot but he keeps coming back. He murdered Robin. I think he's the better villain of the two, even though Vader did have a greater effect on me growing up.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 13, 2005)

Vader.

But it should be noted that the Joker and Vader are two completely different achetypes, and if people aren't voting against the prequels(which many are likely doing), they're probably voting for that archetype.

What it comes down to is fairly simple...who is more evil to you? The chaotic and insane murder with no real reason behind what he does, or the fallen hero and the betrayer. BOTH are very evil concepts, but to some its simply true that chaos is more terrifying than betrayal.


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## reveal (Aug 13, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> ...if people aren't voting against the prequels(which many are likely doing)...




I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 13, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.



 Oh, I agree that they did. However, it doesn't actually change VADER. It changes Anakin...remember, Anakin died and BECAME Vader. Vader was born of evil, not the little kid that drives so many people crazy even though most all kids are like that anway. 

But its not important. People's choices are their own, and I'm willing to believe most people simply find random killing more evil than betrayal.


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## reveal (Aug 13, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Oh, I agree that they did. However, it doesn't actually change VADER. It changes Anakin...remember, Anakin died and BECAME Vader. Vader was born of evil, not the little kid that drives so many people crazy even though most all kids are like that anway.




To me, Anakin is Vader and Vader is Anakin.


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## Mad Hatter (Aug 13, 2005)

What are you talking about Anakin died and became Vader?  Vader is just the aspect of Anakin that was an angry, spoiled, willful, spurned child who had taken enough crap off of the arrogant Jedi that denied him his rightful place.  Forsaking the character of Anakin is spitting in the face of Vader seeing as how it was Anakin's emotional instability that caused Vader to emerge.  And it really doesn't matter if he was manipulated into being Vader, the fact remains that he's Vader and did some pretty bad things all in the name of order etc. 

And I was under the impression that this vote was about the best villain.  You have to take the person in total not just key instances.  I've been preaching all along that a villain who is redeemed and becomes a good guy when compared to a villain that has never expressed remorse or redeemed falls short; everything else being equal.  And it isn't about hating the the prequels.

I'm of the firm belief that Vader shouldn't have made it this far anyways, and that isn't hating on Vader.  It's loving better villains than he.


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## Qlippoth (Aug 13, 2005)

Darth Vader


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## The Serge (Aug 13, 2005)

The Joker.


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## Tonguez (Aug 13, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.




What Prequels? - there are only three Star Wars movies, we're still waiting for them to find a good director to finish off the story...


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 13, 2005)

I'll say one last thing on the whole Anakin/Vader thing and then shut up about it. 

Simply put, if you follow everything that was said in the movies and by George Lucas, Anakin DID die when Darth Vader was born. Anakin only finally returned when he killed the Emperor and that was because of Luke. So when you judge the whole character of Darth Vader, you're judging from the point he betrays the Jedi(



Spoiler



when he attacks Mace Windu and gives into Palpatine


) to the point that he killed the Emperor. THAT is Darth Vader...the rest is Anakin Skywalker. Hence why the ghost as the end of RotJ was changed to look like Anakin BEFORE he was consumed by Vader.

Again, I'm not going after anyone who didn't vote for Vader or doesn't agree with this opinion...but its what Lucas and the movies say, and I'm simply trying to clear that point up. Though I do have to say that its very interesting that only among geeks does there seem to be any dispute as to Darth Vader NOT being the ultimate villain.


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## Mad Hatter (Aug 13, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Though I do have to say that its very interesting that only among geeks does there seem to be any dispute as to Darth Vader NOT being the ultimate villain.




We are a sad lot my friend.  Actually, I like to believe it's because I'm smarter than the common man that has no use for such exercises.  

And also, my last word (hopefully, I'm optimistic at least    ) Lucas, to me is inconsistent a little bit on his take of Vader/Anakin.  The prequels really and truly muddy up the waters on how he feels about it.  I choose to believe that Anakin is a part of Vader, otherwise it's just a giant cop out and the impact of the Dark and Light side of the Force is lost.  I like the Vader/Anakin dichotomy.  It's what makes him a good character and to deny one to validate the other is somewhat silly to me. He was Light then he was Dark and then he was Light again.


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## takyris (Aug 13, 2005)

AM-Guard: Lucas is welcome to say whatever he likes, but I also believe that Peter Parker is Spider-man, Bruce Wayne is Batman, and Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader. A lot of people get bolder and more aggressive when given the comfort of a mask.

And man, if you could take the good things you've done and declare that THOSE things are done by you, whereas the evil things you did were actually done by another person, you could get off the hook for, well, anything, in Lucas-land.

"Yes, right up until I killed the kittens and set fire to the orphanage, I was me. But when I did that, I became Darth Corrigible, so all of that stuff -- the murder, the arson, the destruction of entire worlds -- all of that can be blamed on him. I'm back to being me, though, now, so no worries."

If only Shakespeare had done it like that:
_
Hamlet: My blade twists sharp and lively in my hand,
Which trembles, womanish, before the deed,
Minerva's wit and Hermes' speed command,
But 'tis no longer my will thou willst heed.
Thine former owner Hamlet stands here dead,
And Darth Convenience guides the blade instead!

(Darth Convenience kills Claudius)
_


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## Mad Hatter (Aug 13, 2005)

Takyris, thank you.  Thank you a lot.  I could not have said it better.


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## Kelek72 (Aug 13, 2005)

Joker


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Aug 13, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> BOTH are very evil concepts, but to some its simply true that chaos is more terrifying than betrayal.



Needlessly metaphysical.  You're distilling it down too much.  I nominated Arthas, the Betrayer.  I get why Dante stuck Betrayers in the deepest Pit.  Generally speaking, betrayers are more evil in my mind than raving loons.  But, as a person, the Joker is scarier than Vader.  I'd rather be fighting Vader.  I'd rather lose to Vader, because the most he's likely to take from me is my life.


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## johnsemlak (Aug 13, 2005)

Vader


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## johnsemlak (Aug 13, 2005)

takyris said:
			
		

> AM-Guard: Lucas is welcome to say whatever he likes, but I also believe that Peter Parker is Spider-man, Bruce Wayne is Batman, and Anakin Skywalker is Darth Vader. A lot of people get bolder and more aggressive when given the comfort of a mask.
> 
> And man, if you could take the good things you've done and declare that THOSE things are done by you, whereas the evil things you did were actually done by another person, you could get off the hook for, well, anything, in Lucas-land.




Uh, we're talking fantasy here, not real life.  If Lucas wants to say that Anakin died when he turned to the dark side, then was raised from the dead by his son, why not accept that?  Just because it sounds like some convenient formula that could only happen in a Fantasy roleplaying game?


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## johnsemlak (Aug 13, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Though I do have to say that its very interesting that only among geeks does there seem to be any dispute as to Darth Vader NOT being the ultimate villain.




I think Vader may be just a tad more iconic, more well-known per say.  Bigger brand name.


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## Aris Dragonborn (Aug 13, 2005)

*Vader*


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Aug 13, 2005)

This is too hard for me to think about it, as they are both possibly my favorite villans. So I'm going to just go with my gut and vote...

Darth Vader


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## DonTadow (Aug 13, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I hope people aren't voting for Joker just to spite the prequels, either. But you have to admit, the prequels did change a lot of people's views on Vader, for better or for worse.



I'll be honest, IMHO Vader's in the top ten but not this high.  I'm rating his villiany on episodes 4-6.  Vader seemed confused in episode 6 and asked for redemption.  He coudln't bare to kill his son in Episode 5 (weakness).  Vader killled one main character in the star wars series (obi wan).  

The joker, even though beaten, gets away with his plans a lot of the time.  He's in it to prove something, money is rarely ever the "big reward".  He's successfully murdered a number of "main characters" in the batman series.  Until this day the Joker is still a villian.  That's the deciding factor for me.


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## Endur (Aug 13, 2005)

Another thought on Vader vs. Joker.  Joker is Chaotic Evil.  Darth Vader is lawful evil.


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## Gomez (Aug 13, 2005)

Voting Closed!


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## Gomez (Aug 13, 2005)

Well the winner is.............by a 34 to 20 vote lead.


*THE JOKER!!!!!*









Thanks everyone for playing!


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 13, 2005)

Now we just wait until who wins the Hero one(I think that one will be more interesting, actually) and then we put Joker vs. the winner. 

Hopefully it won't be Joker vs. Batman...need something crazy.


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## DonTadow (Aug 13, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Now we just wait until who wins the Hero one(I think that one will be more interesting, actually) and then we put Joker vs. the winner.
> 
> Hopefully it won't be Joker vs. Batman...need something crazy.



I actually would have liked to see a best sidekick one after the hero.  I'm curious who would win that,


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 13, 2005)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I actually would have liked to see a best sidekick one after the hero.  I'm curious who would win that,




I agree. That'd be pretty interesting.

Demiurge out.


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## reveal (Aug 13, 2005)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I actually would have liked to see a best sidekick one after the hero.  I'm curious who would win that,




Go ahead and create the thread.


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## DarrenGMiller (Aug 13, 2005)

I would very much like a Best Sidekick thread (I suggested it a few rounds ago) and was planning on creating it, but was going to wait until the Hero showdown is farther along.

DM


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## Endur (Aug 13, 2005)

The Joker's win is not really surprising.  If you look at all of the previous rounds in the villain match ups, the Joker was consistently getting the highest vote totals.  On the other hand, Darth Vader barely won some rounds.

So its not surprising that the Joker won.

On the other hand, if this match up had been held before the new Star Wars trilogy or in a forum that was not heavily exposed to comics, I could easily see Darth Vader winning.


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## DonTadow (Aug 13, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Go ahead and create the thread.



really should I?  I just didn't want too many voting things going on at once ... well considering my pick did win this one, maybe that grants me the right to do one of these


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## DonTadow (Aug 13, 2005)

Ok I created it.  
The great sidekick thread to go along with the heroe. 
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=144029


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## griff_goodbeard (Aug 13, 2005)

Even though I voted for Vader, I'm not dissapointed that Joker won.  As has been said above, IMO The Joker is *the* iconic CE villian and Vader *the* iconic LE villian.


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## DonTadow (Aug 14, 2005)

griff_goodbeard said:
			
		

> Even though I voted for Vader, I'm not dissapointed that Joker won.  As has been said above, IMO The Joker is *the* iconic CE villian and Vader *the* iconic LE villian.



I think that the emperor may have faired better than Vader in this round.  The last round Vader's flaws were revealed and a lot of people made comments that he was simply more than a lacky which is correct in all honesty.  LE or not he turned good which hurt him, not his lawfulness.   He'd probably do great in a best henchmen voting.


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## Particle_Man (Aug 14, 2005)

[size=+2]HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!![/size]


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## Joker (Aug 15, 2005)

Muwhahahahaha.  Yes yes yes.

I better sit down before I bust a gut.


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## Szatany (Aug 15, 2005)

Joker said:
			
		

> Muwhahahahaha.  Yes yes yes.
> 
> I better sit down before I bust a gut.



 NO, DIE LAUGHING !


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## jasper (Aug 17, 2005)

Interesting I stole the idea and placed on two different sites I used. Allowing for one or two joke entries I have gotten some similiar results.
In one group both the Emperor and Vader lost their matches  in rd 3. The Emperor to Old Scratch, and vader to fu manchu. however in another site they are going strong into round 5 and will fight each other if they win in that round.
But I think I did matches up differently than the big G. I named the first ten and then added as peoplenamed them. Then matched the bottom half with the top baring any mistakes. 
has anyone stole this and posted elsewhere and what were the results.


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## Aris Dragonborn (Aug 17, 2005)

Just because it needs to be done..................

The Joker [34] defeats Darth Vader [20]!


*NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!!!!*


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