# The Orville - Season 1



## Hand of Evil

So, your thought?  I enjoyed it.  It was better than I thought it would be, yes the dialog could have been better but it is a tongue in cheek show.  Looking forward to episode 2 and the rest of the season.


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## Dannyalcatraz

The influence of _Star Trek_ is obvious.  (Only watched the first half so far- got interrupted, but have it taped.)


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## Dannyalcatraz

Watched the end.  Liked that the "Chekhov's Gun" in the first half was used less for comedy and more for badassery.

Not sold on the show, but liked what I saw enough to watch Ep.2.


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## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Watched the end.  Liked that the "Chekhov's Gun" in the first half was used less for comedy and more for badassery.
> 
> Not sold on the show, but liked what I saw enough to watch Ep.2.




I'm of the same mind; not yet sold, but hopeful enough to watch the next one.


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## Jester David

I like the presentation. I'm a fan of serious drama shows that are made comedic through personalities and dialogue, rather than situational or physical comedy. Where you could redub the show and make it serious.Like Ghostbusters. Or half the episodes of Red Dwarf. 
I love that it really felt and looked like Star Trek, only with more flawed characters. It looked great.

It also very much felt like a pilot, getting all the character interactions and introductions out of the way.

I imagine 3-4 rough episodes as they try to find their groove. After that, it has some serious potential.


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## Dannyalcatraz

It didn't just look and feel Star Trek, that music wouldn't be out of place in the franchise, either.


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## TreChriron

I liked it enough to see where it goes. The music was so Star Trek Next Generation/Deep Space 9 I was having flashbacks. The outros were spot on! Has potential. I love how they insert the "real" into the Star Trek meme with things like - "we're not getting out of here at 5 are we?" - "Can I drink soda on the bridge, our last captain was cool with it."


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## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> It didn't just look and feel Star Trek, that music wouldn't be out of place in the franchise, either.




That might well have been the best part of it.


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## Orius

It was entertaining enough, had a pretty strong Trek vibe to it.  The characters feel more, I dunno, real? than the crew members from the modern Trek series.  But then it's got Brannon Braga as one of the producers (is that why we have a holodeck scene in the first episode? ), and the doctor played Kasidy Yates on DS9, so that just ups the Trek vibe (come to think of it, didn't that head scientist guy play Bashir's dad too?).  Those bad guys look like a mis-mash of several "bad guy" Trek species too.

I did have one horrible, _horrible_ thought about 10 minutes into the show though.

*IT'S ON FOX
*​




orius said:


> Fox: the station that gives Sci-Fi a chance in the most half-assed bassackward method imaginable and then wonders why it fails.


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## Morrus

It’s gotten *terrible* reviews. No hint of it being shown over here though. 


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## Ryujin

Orius said:


> It was entertaining enough, had a pretty strong Trek vibe to it.  The characters feel more, I dunno, real? than the crew members from the modern Trek series.  But then it's got Brannon Braga as one of the producers (is that why we have a holodeck scene in the first episode? ), and the doctor played Kasidy Yates on DS9, so that just ups the Trek vibe (come to think of it, didn't that head scientist guy play Bashir's dad too?).  Those bad guys look like a mis-mash of several "bad guy" Trek species too.
> 
> I did have one horrible, _horrible_ thought about 10 minutes into the show though.
> 
> *IT'S ON FOX
> *​




From where I sit Brannon Braga being involved isn't a ringing endorsement either.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Ryujin

Legatus_Legionis said:


> I found it to be refreshing.
> 
> After how dark and political rebooted Battlestar Galactica was, this is light, funny, goofy...
> 
> A great parody of sci-fi in general.
> 
> I can easily see Orville doing better than ST.Discovery.




There's a definite dearth of hopeful SciFi these days. Everything now seems to be about some dystopian future. Except "Orville."


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## akr71

I was entertained, but I have a feeling it is going to become a victim of the show (& its viewers) not knowing what it is.  Is it serious, is it parody (which can only last so long), is it a humorous homage?


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## Ryujin

The Fox kiss of death: Two episodes in and they're already changing the time slot.


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## Hand of Evil

Ryujin said:


> The Fox kiss of death: Two episodes in and they're already changing the time slot.




Yea, thought that was a bad sign too and of all nights, Thursday!  I can understand the move from Sunday, it is Football season.


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## Ryujin

Hand of Evil said:


> Yea, thought that was a bad sign too and of all nights, Thursday!  I can understand the move from Sunday, it is Football season.




Which is why I didn't understand putting it in the Sunday slot to begin with; it was almost certain to be delayed at some point and it was, last night.


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## CapnZapp

I liked it.

Being reminded it's a family guy show once every five minutes was jarring, though...

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## Dannyalcatraz

Some of the pacing was forced, but overall, Ep2 was decent.  Liked the non-ST _Twilight Zone_-style plot.


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## Orius

Ryujin said:


> Which is why I didn't understand putting it in the Sunday slot to begin with; it was almost certain to be delayed at some point and it was, last night.




I'm guessing they used the slot to promote it before the usual Sunday shows premiere.  I was annoyed about the game running late (by 45 freakin' minutes!), the local Fox affiliate is really bad with sports running over the allotted time.  At least Fox showed the whole episode, this particular station has a very bad and very ugly habit of cutting off shows, particularly syndicated fare, when a lousy game runs late.  I'm not a sports fan, and it galls me to miss something I want to watch for sports.

The episode itself was rather amusing.


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## CapnZapp

Cut and paste from an AV Club comment that I liked:

"I’ve gotta say, after this second episode I unabashedly love this show, just for how earnest and cheesy it is.

The thing that struck me about a lot of the reviews of the pilot, and even this second episode, were how confused the reviewers were about the tone of the show, whether it was trying to be a comedy or a sci-fi drama and not mixing well.

There are comparisons with the show to “Star Trek,” sure, but the reviews almost never seem to be from people who “got” “Star Trek.” And I don’t mean understand that it’s a metaphorical sci-fi show expressing an optimistic view of humanity. I mean they don’t love the show the way the fans do for not only its message, but for its characters, its settings, and despite its idiosyncrasies, its inconsistencies, and even its flaws (and, in most cases, love it because of those things). In other words, the reviewers aren’t “fans” of “Star Trek.” Not the way I am. Not the way Seth MacFarlane is.

After the teaser and opening credits of the second episode, I seriously suspect that the confused tone is the entire point of the show. This isn’t a sci-fi show with an optimistic view of the future. It’s ah homage to fans of such shows.

What is the first shot of the second episode? The Orville floating through space as the music swells up. Presented EXACTLY as it would be on Star Trek TNG or Voyager, just with the Orville instead of the Enterprise or Voyager. It’s even looking at the ship at the same camera angle. That’s a very specific thing to reference. It cracked me up.

Then, there are the newly presented opening credits. And, sure, it’s one thing to say that a minute-long opening credit sequence on a broadcast TV show in 2017 is a huge throwback. But this wasn’t just any opening sequence. This was practically a beat-by-beat re-creation of the Star Trek Voyager opening credits sequence, just with the Orville being depicted encountering all manner of weird space stuff instead of what Voyager encountered.

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## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Some of the pacing was forced, but overall, Ep2 was decent.  Liked the non-ST _Twilight Zone_-style plot.




Reminded me, somewhat, of the original Star Trek pilot which eventually became the two part TOS episode "The Menagerie."

I think that they wanted Alara running away to be funny but it.... wasn't.


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## Ryujin

Double post.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> Reminded me, somewhat, of the original Star Trek pilot which eventually became the two part TOS episode "The Menagerie."




That element is there, no doubt.  Especially in the general physiognomy of the alien captors.  But for me, the TZ episode "People are alike" resonated more.

[video=youtube;nIZ04AGTjHc]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nIZ04AGTjHc&sns=em[/video]




> I think that they wanted Alara running away to be funny but it.... wasn't.




I don't know about their intent, but I think it was a fair representation of how _some_ would react or _think_ they'd react if given a crisis in the first hours of their first command.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Legatus_Legionis said:


> After the second episode, I am definately luv'n the show.
> 
> How the crew acts when an order goes against what they believe - priceless.
> 
> Of course, on a military ship such insubordinate would never be tolerated, but on the Orville, the passion of the crew is front and center.
> 
> And how they traded the worst of network TV (ie. reality TV) in exchange for those three are funny as hell!
> 
> As a punishment for taking our captain and first mate, we will give you files upon files of reality TV! LOL.
> 
> I can't wait for episode three!




Does anyone else suspect our crappy shows will contribute to the decline and collapse of that species' culture?  Or a cultural mutation, a la the Sigma Iotians* from Classic ST? 


* "A piece of the action"


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## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Does anyone else suspect our crappy shows will contribute to the decline and collapse of that species' culture?  Or a cultural mutation, a la the Sigma Iotians* from Classic ST?
> 
> 
> * "A piece of the action"




Or perhaps like the Talosians from "The Managerie"; unable to maintain the technology that was created by their predecessors though, in this case, because they're bloated on beer and pork rinds, and so unable to rise from their couches.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> Or perhaps like the Talosians from "The Managerie"; unable to maintain the technology that was created by their predecessors though, in this case, because they're bloated on beer and pork rinds, and so unable to rise from their couches.



We have such things to teach them...



Nononononono!

Selfies!  Table flipping!  Plastic surgery/tattoo/piercing fails!  Kittens!  Porn!

Heidi Montag and Spencer Pratt clips _might_ make them suicidal.


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## Jester David

I quite liked this episode. 

The comedic set-up and routine family drama just seemed exactly like what a comedy sci-fi show would do. I fully expected that to continue. And then *bam* the twist. That was a thing of beauty. The music got all dramatic and things looked serious, and even the friendly expendable ensign got hurts. 
While the reactions were silly and played for laughs, the situation was dead serious and the stakes were real. Which is just perfect. And the episode focused on character growth to boot. Just what I wanted from the show. More than I exepected really.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully

Ryujin said:


> Reminded me, somewhat, of the original Star Trek pilot which eventually became the two part TOS episode "The Menagerie."
> 
> I think that they wanted Alara running away to be funny but it.... wasn't.




Am I misremembering things,or are you?

Wasn't the take of the Menagerie that the super advanced aliens managed to save a single woman from a horrible crash, but only in a horribly disfugred state that made her unable to live without their assistance - and so they created a nice artificial environment for her to keep her happy - and they decided that adding Pike to it would complete her experience.

It wasn't really a Zoo arrangement, was it?


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## Ryujin

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> Am I misremembering things,or are you?
> 
> Wasn't the take of the Menagerie that the super advanced aliens managed to save a single woman from a horrible crash, but only in a horribly disfugred state that made her unable to live without their assistance - and so they created a nice artificial environment for her to keep her happy - and they decided that adding Pike to it would complete her experience.
> 
> It wasn't really a Zoo arrangement, was it?




No, you're remembering correctly. Through the episode Pike thinks that they are being held as exhibit specimens, or as an "Adam and Eve" to a race of human slaves. The reality only becomes apparent at the end of the episode.


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## Mark CMG

Good stuff.  It has light moments like Stargate shows used to have though obviously more over the top.


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## Richards

I'm a little confused.  If an "all male" species lays eggs, and the egg isn't just a clone of the one who laid it (as the other "male" member of the species was apparently part of the process), that really isn't an "all male" species, is it?  Aren't we actually talking about a hermaphroditic species here?

But I guess that wouldn't let them make a "leaving the toilet seat up" joke in episode one.  Maybe I've just answered my own question.

Johnathan


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## Zaukrie

Richards said:


> I'm a little confused.  If an "all male" species lays eggs, and the egg isn't just a clone of the one who laid it (as the other "male" member of the species was apparently part of the process), that really isn't an "all male" species, is it?  Aren't we actually talking about a hermaphroditic species here?
> 
> But I guess that wouldn't let them make a "leaving the toilet seat up" joke in episode one.  Maybe I've just answered my own question.
> 
> Johnathan



In fairness, he said it was impossible.... So they might all think it is an all male species..  or maybe it has been, and an evolutionary leap just happened?  Or maybe it used to be both, hasn't been, and now is? In situations like this, I assume something unexpected is happening, and embrace it.


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## cbwjm

I'm loving this show so far, looking forward to episode 3.


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## Jester David

Richards said:


> I'm a little confused.  If an "all male" species lays eggs, and the egg isn't just a clone of the one who laid it (as the other "male" member of the species was apparently part of the process), that really isn't an "all male" species, is it?  Aren't we actually talking about a hermaphroditic species here?
> 
> But I guess that wouldn't let them make a "leaving the toilet seat up" joke in episode one.  Maybe I've just answered my own question.
> 
> Johnathan



We might find out. 
A mono-gendered species wouldn't be female or male. They'd have a different term. But, since they _look_ very masculine, you can see people referring to them as "male".
Or there could be other reasons we'll find out next episode...


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## Dannyalcatraz

Or they could have lost their females long ago, but fortunately after they had sufficient technology to allow them to mix genes of males artificially in place of the usual natural way, avoiding becoming a race of clones (Sontarans) or simply dying out.


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## Ryujin

I have to say that tonight's episode was pretty solid. More serious than the previous two. It also answered the gender question.


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## tomBitonti

Ryujin said:


> I have to say that tonight's episode was pretty solid. More serious than the previous two. It also answered the gender question.




A *lot* more.  And, what is of note in the episode would be hard to discuss here, so I’ll pass.

Thx!
TomB


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Jester David

Wow. That third episode. Heavy stuff for a rookie show, but some real Star Trek type material. It really felt like a TNG epsisode with a couple more ridiculous scenes. 
Doing that episode was ballsy.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Episode 3:
http://newenthusiast.files.wordpress.com/2013/10/flip-new-222.gif


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## Morrus

I’m hearing this show is more TNG than it is Galaxy Quest. Would that be a fair description? (Haven’t been able to see it yet). 


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## tomBitonti

Morrus said:


> I’m hearing this show is more TNG than it is Galaxy Quest. Would that be a fair description? (Haven’t been able to see it yet).




It really is a bit of both.  You will probably have to see it and decide for yourself.  (Not an endorsement, btw.  You might like it, you might hate it.)

Thx!
TomB


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## Dannyalcatraz

Morrus said:


> I’m hearing this show is more TNG than it is Galaxy Quest. Would that be a fair description? (Haven’t been able to see it yet).




I would say it is TNG without the sanitized TNG character dialog- IOW, characters interact with the same kind of banter & word choices we'd expect from family, friends and work colleagues- with a blend of seriousness & just enough over the top/juvenile humor to never let us forget its creator.

I've been thinking of it as the _Rosanne_ of sci-fi comedy in terms of pacing and overall storytelling.


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## Morrus

tomBitonti said:


> It really is a bit of both.  You will probably have to see it and decide for yourself.




I don't know if I'll be able to. It's not on here, and as far as I can make out no channel plans to show it in future.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Zaukrie

Really enjoyed that episode. Like great TNG. Loved the ending especially


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## Dannyalcatraz

Zaukrie said:


> Really enjoyed that episode. Like great TNG. Loved the ending especially




Definitely "realistic", as opposed to Hollywood-style wish fulfillment.  Extremely gutsy AND well done for a new "comedic" series.


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## Hand of Evil

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I've been thinking of it as the _Rosanne_ of sci-fi comedy in terms of pacing and overall storytelling.




I was going to say Married With Children.  

The 3rd episode was very TNG in content.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Hand of Evil said:


> I was going to say Married With Children.
> 
> The 3rd episode was very TNG in content.




That was my first thought, too, what with the humor's stylistic parallels.  But _Married..._ almost never dealt with anything serious.  My second was _All in the Family_, but they never went as over the top- or as lowbrow- for laughs.

But _Rosanne_?  That was juuuuust right!


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## CapnZapp

Episode 3 was one of those preachy episodes - exactly the part of Star Trek I enjoy the least.

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## Janx

CapnZapp said:


> Episode 3 was one of those preachy episodes - exactly the part of Star Trek I enjoy the least.
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




Some people go to church on Sunday, some of us watch Star Trek.  May Roddenberry bless us one and all. 

Personally, that's what I like about Star Trek.  SciFi has long been a tool to reframe a social situation and inspect the moral decision outside of the original context.  Thus hopefully removing the emotional baggage that makes people stick to their guns.

Heck, it's why they used Rudolph to try to influence the dad (can't recall these characters names).

Does it work?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully

Zaukrie said:


> Really enjoyed that episode. Like great TNG. Loved the ending especially



Not to be overly nitpicky and critical, but to be overly nitpicky and critical, the most similar TNG episode also had a similar ending. 

[sblock]
There was an episode where Riker fell in love with a researcher from a species that (supposedly) had no genders, but the researcher in question self-identified as female. The show ends with her getting the standard brainwash treatment to make her feel asexual again.  (I'd almost argue that this is more horrifying then the idea of making a sex change on a newborn, as it's alterting an established person's sense of self against her will.) In both shows, it might be however that the person in question will still live a happy life afterwards. [/sblock]

To me it feels a bit like a rehash of a 25 year old story, really. (But it has some advantages compared to then - they didn't dare to give the self-identified female an actual androgenous figure, for example, she was clearly a female actress, so the viewer could see a man and a woman interacting, just with some alien make-up on the female.) Orville actually had a genuine male couple on screen (Of course, both with their alien make-up) and it kinda is a double twist in that regard. I suppose that might acually also highlight a bit of progress - studios these days don't seen to treat a homosexual couple as controversial as they used to in the 80s.


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## Jester David

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> To me it feels a bit like a rehash of a 25 year old story, really. (But it has some advantages compared to then - they didn't dare to give the self-identified female an actual androgenous figure, for example, she was clearly a female actress, so the viewer could see a man and a woman interacting, just with some alien make-up on the female.) Orville actually had a genuine male couple on screen (Of course, both with their alien make-up) and it kinda is a double twist in that regard. I suppose that might acually also highlight a bit of progress - studios these days don't seen to treat a homosexual couple as controversial as they used to in the 80s.




The episode you're referring to was Trek trying to deal with homosexuality without actually including homosexuality. 

This episode of the Orville was trying to touch on both transgender, but also male/female equality (the latter in the second half, which lessened the impact). 
The former would feel a little like a rehash, since transgender social rights are very much a "rehash" of the gay rights movement. The latter should be unnecessary, but with the curious re-rise of misogyny online - especially in the two or three years following Gamergate - feels oddly topical.


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## Zaukrie

Most stories are retelling of other stories at this point. That didn't bother me at all. And the casual way there are two men married, compared to what TNG showed.... Not sure I am allowed to comment on that here or not


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## Dannyalcatraz

Considering that ST:OS featured US TV's first interracial kiss _and_ a cross-species relationship as the background of at least one major character, any subsequent ST show or homage thereto has strong precedents to work from.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Ryujin

Zaukrie said:


> Most stories are retelling of other stories at this point. That didn't bother me at all. And the casual way there are two men married, compared to what TNG showed.... Not sure I am allowed to comment on that here or not




“There is no such thing as a new idea. It is impossible. We simply take a lot of old ideas and put them into a sort of mental kaleidoscope. We give them a turn and they make new and curious combinations. We keep on turning and making new combinations indefinitely; but they are the same old pieces of colored glass that have been in use through all the ages.”  - Mark Twain

It's all in the telling. This was a good story, with the edge softened by humour. Much better than the first two.


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## CapnZapp

Janx said:


> Some people go to church on Sunday, some of us watch Star Trek.  May Roddenberry bless us one and all.



I far preferred the light silliness of ep 2.

Ep 3 just reminded me how stuffy and preachy Trek could get.

Of course, it tells us MacFarlane is going all-in: the Orville really is meant as a TNG show. Which is a good thing in the end.

He won't cherry-pick just some tropes. Considering the fart jokes we need to endure, going all-in makes it much more worth it.



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## CapnZapp

So, geek question time!

Does the Orville-verse have transporter technology? Or is it just coincidence we haven't seen them beam down yet?

(This is especially interesting since Discovery didn't spend many minutes before showing off transporter beam tech)

After all, including the tech creates as many problems as it solves, and perhaps MacFarlane is geeky enough to not want to have anything to do with "beam me up Scotty"...? 

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## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> So, geek question time!
> 
> Does the Orville-verse have transporter technology? Or is it just coincidence we haven't seen them beam down yet?
> 
> (This is especially interesting since Discovery didn't spend many minutes before showing off transporter beam tech)
> 
> After all, including the tech creates as many problems as it solves, and perhaps MacFarlane is geeky enough to not want to have anything to do with "beam me up Scotty"...?
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




While there has been no evidence of this, I strongly suspect that we'll be seeing a "transporter accident" episode some time this season. Perhaps it will be experimental technology?


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## cbwjm

Ryujin said:


> While there has been no evidence of this, I strongly suspect that we'll be seeing a "transporter accident" episode some time this season. Perhaps it will be experimental technology?



I wonder if lacking transporter technology is what makes the Union appear as little more than animals to the technologically advanced race which had a transporter trap in episode 2.


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## Hand of Evil

cbwjm said:


> I wonder if lacking transporter technology is what makes the Union appear as little more than animals to the technologically advanced race which had a transporter trap in episode 2.



maybe part of it, another is holographic camo that even defeated their own sensors, not listed but possible weapons and such.  But most likely it is just a racial ego, thinking they are just better than the Union.


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## Dannyalcatraz

> holographic camo that even defeated their own sensors




That could be very problematic for them.

...especially if- unlike so many other shows before it- the tech that saved their bacon ISN'T forgotten about, and gets 

1: used again by The Orville 
2: gets reverse engineered and distributed to the fleet


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## calronmoonflower

Morrus said:


> I don't know if I'll be able to. It's not on here, and as far as I can make out no channel plans to show it in future.




It is streamed on the Fox website, complete with commercials. So if they didn't region lock the stream you should be able to watch it.


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## CapnZapp

calronmoonflower said:


> It is streamed on the Fox website, complete with commercials. So if they didn't region lock the stream you should be able to watch it.



I believe Morrus, being located outside the US, will only get a static image of Zach Galifianakis in his underwear rooting around some garbage. 

While I'm sure some Trek hardliners will consider this an appropriate Orville experience, I'm not sure it will satisfy Morrus.

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## Ryujin

Episode 4 - "For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky"-ish.


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## Hand of Evil

another strong episode, great science fiction


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## Dannyalcatraz

1) In continued deft thievery...errrrr...*homage*, I think I recognized motifs from _Fantastic Voyage_ and _The Black Hole_ as parts of the incidental music.

2) when they opened the "sun roof" after thousands of years, there were surprised inhabitants, but nothing like happened in Asimov's "Nightfall".  Of course, just because they hadn't seen genuine space, it doesn't necessarily follow that the ship didn't have simulated day/night cycles.  Of course, if you've got that roof, why simulate night?

3) The world-ship's former captain seems familiar- I bet he had a particular set of skills, acquired over a very long career...*

I find it interesting that the show has gotten him and other notable actors to appear in its first season.  Again, it's almost like an exercise in sympathetic magic: emulate what you want to become in order to become like it.  ST, in all of its iterations, has had a knack for launching careers and sporting fun guest star appearances, in minor roles and major ones.





* perhaps we shouldn't have been surprised by thus particular guest appearance, given this:
[video=youtube;dsu8vL2YyPQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsu8vL2YyPQ&sns=em[/video]


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## CapnZapp

I liked the pilot's extra "boom" 

It's scarily how fast they want to become TNG "elite" - Alara taking the bullets like a champ, the XO enduring torture. They just brushed that off in true serialized Trek fashion.  You'd thought they would act much more shocked, and that they will bring up the trauma over and over again?

But perhaps its only men who get to be narcissistic whimps on this show...? (A joke I would love if true, so no probs) 

Bechdel alert: I'm no feminist, but even I couldn't miss how the two broads couldn't have a talk without it being about men (on the road, just before the armored van driving up).


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## cbwjm

I still haven't watched star trek discovery and I'm afraid that it is going to be as trek as the Orville.


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## Morrus

cbwjm said:


> I still haven't watched star trek discovery and I'm afraid that it is going to be as trek as the Orville.




Afraid? You have two different flavours of Star Trek on *at the same time*! This is the best time ever for Trek fans!


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## cbwjm

Morrus said:


> Afraid? You have two different flavours of Star Trek on *at the same time*! This is the best time ever for Trek fans!



I'm planning on starting discovery but the Orville has set the bar pretty high. When it comes down to it though, you're right. I'm going to watch both and undoubtedly enjoy them both due to being a trek fan.


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## Ryujin

Morrus said:


> Afraid? You have two different flavours of Star Trek on *at the same time*! This is the best time ever for Trek fans!




Definitely a good thing for me because, so far, I'm not a fan of the *actual* Trek series. I was on the fence about "The Orville", but the third and fourth episodes tipped the balance in its favour. HUGELY in its favour.


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## Morrus

Ryujin said:


> Definitely a good thing for me because, so far, I'm not a fan of the *actual* Trek series. I was on the fence about "The Orville", but the third and fourth episodes tipped the balance in its favour. HUGELY in its favour.




Haven’t seen Orville, but I loved Discovery. If it’s even better than that? Can’t wait!


----------



## Ryujin

Morrus said:


> Haven’t seen Orville, but I loved Discovery. If it’s even better than that? Can’t wait!




Think TOS episode "The Trouble With Tribbles" but without the slapstick comedy, and updated for a modern audience.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

CapnZapp said:


> Bechdel alert: I'm no feminist, but even I couldn't miss how the two broads couldn't have a talk without it being about men (on the road, just before the armored van driving up).




Yeah, you're not wrong, but, OTOH, Isaac was similarly tenacious on the road regarding the Captain's side of the story.


----------



## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Yeah, you're not wrong, but, OTOH, Isaac was similarly tenacious on the road regarding the Captain's side of the story.



That's double standards for ya, I guess... 

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


----------



## CapnZapp

Ryujin said:


> the third and fourth episodes




I especially liked #2 and #4 so far

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----------



## CapnZapp

Morrus said:


> Haven’t seen Orville, but I loved Discovery. If it’s even better than that? Can’t wait!



I don't know if "better" is the word I'd use 

"same same but different" works better for me ☺

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----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Ryujin

Legatus_Legionis said:


> Episode 4 reminds me of two things:
> 
> The TV Show "The Starlost", and the Star Trek: Original Series Episode "For The World Is Hollow And I Have Touched The Sky".
> 
> The Starlost's crew had died, and the ship is drifting off-course, while those left in the agri-domes no longer recall they are on a ship.
> 
> Star Trek's episode was also in a closed "ship", where most of the people are also punished for thinking outside of the "norm".
> 
> So it is a nice MODERNIZATION of the story.
> 
> I did feel like its conclusion was rushed.  The opening of the dome "solved" everything.  They will accept the "help" without question.  The turmoil of their belief system being upended they will accept...?
> 
> They could have used another 5-10 minutes at least address some of this.
> 
> The Orville leaving and the captain saying they will be getting their help shortly, yet leaving a people so divided/confused who knows what they will do to each other in the mean time.
> 
> What will the dictatorship do?  What will the people do?




I mentioned the original series episode up-thread but when they started panning over the ship, my brain immediately went to StarLost. I didn't mention it because I didn't think that anyone here would remember a '70s Canadian SciFi series with crappy production values, whose biggest selling points were that it starred the Star Child and had a few cameos by Chekov


----------



## Richards

So far, I think the only main "Star Trek" things they haven't had on the show yet are transporter beams, dilithium crystals, and photon torpedoes.  (Oh, and the Prime Directive!)  They seem to have hit all of the other major checklist items:

- Warp speed
- Phasers
- Shields
- Holodeck
- Shuttles
- Tractor beams
- Tricorders
- Communicators
- Replicators
- Different colored uniforms for different specialties on board ship
- Mechanical being trying to make sense of humanoid life by serving aboard a ship
- United group of sentient races with Headquarters on Earth
- Specific design of starships for propulsion (twin nacelles vs. the stack of three rings)

What else am I overlooking?

Johnathan


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The Krill seem to be shaping up as Klingon analogs.


----------



## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> The Krill seem to be shaping up as Klingon analogs.



That's another thing I found funny:



SPOILERS

How the Krill ship couldn't obliterate the transport in twenty minutes, yet could come close to destroying the Orville in minutes.

The joke is how this is taken directly from Trek, where this kind of unexplained stuff would happen all the time.

In real life, you would hear a distress call, and then arrive long after the action is over to gather up survivors.

Combat time < (interstellar) travel time

Either that, or the prey successfully hides from the hunter, so that when the Orville arrives, the find the Krill in search-and-destroy mode.

Now, I realize that in order to save time, it's most convenient to arrive to a Krill ship actively shooting so the Orville can just kill it, but still, that's what I found funny - yet another TNG:ism...



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----------



## Jester David

I also noted that the two female characters on the show only talked about men when together and then one was injured and the other tortured. They could have done better in that regard, but I'm not going to rip the show apart for failing at something most shows also fail at. 

I'm more forgiving for a few genre reasons. The first being that this is a show based on relationships and influenced by interpersonal drama. So talking about the other crew and related relationships is always going to be a major part of the dialogue.
As for getting shot, I imagine some of that was the Worf Effect: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect And the easiest way to establish the stakes are high is to hit the tough character with a blow that would be fatal for anyone else. 

Otherwise, another fine episode that felt a little compressed. You had the religious theocracy elements and the people not knowing they live in a space ship crashing together. Some really interesting stuff that was just briefly touched on. But, again, this would have made a fine episode of TNG with some minor dialogue tweaks.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

One thing I like is that characters do not have flawless recollection of the distant path.  IOW, not everyone is an amateur historian.  We've already seen characters unable to properly recall historical/factual dates, events, cities & people.

I fully expect Isaac to correct someone who screws up badly, a la Kryten from _Red Dwarf_, but if so, it shouldn't be a running gag.  (I'd also love it if he got to play bartender once or twice...)

I also want them to do more with Yaphit or ditch the character.  I like Norm MacDonald, but his character so far seems an afterthought.


----------



## tomBitonti

CapnZapp said:


> That's another thing I found funny:
> 
> How the Krill ship couldn't obliterate the transport in twenty minutes, yet could come close to destroying the Orville in minutes.
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




Maybe, the transport did its best to evade the Krill, say, keeping up shields and running, long enough for the Orville to arrive.  Also, if the Krill was raiding, it would want the transport more or less intact.  But that's a bit of a stretch.

I found funny the absurdly short 20min time to arrive, which poked fun at the rescue mission as a plot device and by extension at the genre and at genre conventions.

I liked the acrobatics of the combat.  No more 2D space fights here!  But why oh why are people still driving?

Minor quibble: Does anyone have the cross sectional area of the alien ship?  It seemed awfully tall for how wide it was.

Another quibble: Another case of the command crew going in where several exploration teams should have gone.

Thx!
TomB


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Also, if the Krill was raiding, it would want the transport more or less intact. But that's a bit of a stretch.




That was my first thought.  We don't know much about the Krill, yet.  Perhaps they only want...*to serve man*.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Another case of the command crew going in where several exploration teams should have gone.




I would so love a sci-fi show to focus on traditional military style structured away teams.  The various Stargate series came closest, but too often in even in that franchise, higher-ranked or invaluable personnel were sent into dangerous situations.


----------



## CapnZapp

tomBitonti said:


> Another quibble: Another case of the command crew going in where several exploration teams should have gone.



That's not a quibble, that's a horse so beaten to death it has turned to dust, become an ocean floor, risen into mighty mountains, then reformed into a second horse.

Which we have also beaten to death.

In other words, it's an integral assumption built right into the atoms of Trekness.

☺



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----------



## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> One thing I like is that characters do not have flawless recollection of the distant path.  IOW, not everyone is an amateur historian.  We've already seen characters unable to properly recall historical/factual dates, events, cities & people.



Him the pilot certainly isn't.

What was the capital of the United States of America? 

The Moon? 



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----------



## CapnZapp

Jester David said:


> As for getting shot, I imagine some of that was the Worf Effect: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/TheWorfEffect



Without checking the link, isn't the Worf Effect how useless Worf is. He's supposed to be the competent security officer and a strong Klingon warrior to boot.

Yet, that manifests itself exceedingly few times. 

Most of the time his advice is ignored and for the better. He's consistently beaten, making Picardy and Riker looking good when they later beat the foe. His strength and Klingon ways never do him any good, while his inflexibility and set ways are often emphasized as inferior to the "warm patrician ways" of Picard ☺

In this context, I would say getting shot wasn't the Worf Effect.

She really benefited from her Worfian traits. Her super strength has been showcased EVERY episode so far.

And when you add her nervousness and Tequila vulnerability (it's not the Worf effect if you lose because you have humanizing weaknesses, it's the Worf effect when the show only uses your supposed strengths to elevate antagonists instead of, like, you ever winning) I'd say she's already a much more interesting and well realized character than Worf, and that while the Worf effect might still threaten the character, I'd like to argue it hasn't happened just yet. ☺



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----------



## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I also want them to do more with Yaphit or ditch the character.  I like Norm MacDonald, but his character so far seems an afterthought.



I think that's the joke. Having an absurd character do one thing and one thing alone: try to get into the pants of a clearly uninterested taking-no-slack Doctor 

PS I don't know this Norm so I have no expectations based on the voice actor.

Instead I'm thinking of Meg in Family Guy. You take one of the coolest and sexiest female actresses alive... And then give her the most underused and unappreciated character ever. 

And THEN you keep up that joke for, what, ten years straight?

I don't think this Yaphit is going _anywhere_... 



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----------



## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> I think that's the joke. Having an absurd character do one thing and one thing alone: try to get into the pants of a clearly uninterested taking-no-slack Doctor
> 
> PS I don't know this Norm so I have no expectations based on the voice actor.
> 
> Instead I'm thinking of Meg in Family Guy. You take one of the coolest and sexiest female actresses alive... And then give her the most underused and unappreciated character ever.
> 
> And THEN you keep up that joke for, what, ten years straight?
> 
> I don't think this Yaphit is going _anywhere_...




Interesting comment on Norm MacDonald, especially given your follow-up comment. He's a Canadian standup comedian who, among other things, was the original voice of Death on Family Guy.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Also, "Burt Reynolds" in SNL's Celebrity Jeopardy sketches.
[video=youtube;PaFSkWfFhO0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PaFSkWfFhO0&sns=em[/video]

[video=youtube;ImaYMoTi2g8]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ImaYMoTi2g8&sns=em[/video]


----------



## CapnZapp

Thanks.


----------



## Hand of Evil

> In TV’s own star wars, both Fox’s “The Orville” and CBS’ “Star Trek: Discovery” launched into similar orbits.
> 
> The two shows opened solid, a few weeks apart, on their respective live, linear broadcast networks. But in live+3 ratings (which includes three days of DVR and video on-demand usage), both premieres scored an identical total viewer average: 10.6 million each.
> 
> Fox’s “The Orville” was at least a light year ahead in the adults 18-49 demo, however, opening to a strong 3.5 rating — compared to the decent, but less stellar, 2.1 rating for “Star Trek: Discovery.”
> 
> Both shows premiered on a Sunday, but it’s not quite an apples-to-apples comparison: “Orville” benefited from a direct NFL lead-in (on Sept. 10), while “Discovery” premiered behind “60 Minutes” (on Sept. 24). Also, “Discovery” has been promoted as a CBS All Access property, and the Eye’s digital platform generated record sign-ups in time for the launch of the latest “Star Trek” chapter — which means many fans probably watched it on that outlet.
> 
> From this point on, ratings don’t really matter for “Discovery” any more — subscription levels and retention will be what CBS All Access is looking at. (They’ll be dissecting viewership internally, but much like Netflix, Amazon and Hulu, those ratings won’t be shared with the media or the general public.)
> 
> It’s a much different story for “The Orville,” which must now battle it out on Thursday nights. In its first regular time slot outing, on Sept. 21, the results were promising: The show averaged 6.3 million viewers in live+3, and a 1.8 rating with adults 18-49, making it Fox’s highest-rated Thursday 9 p.m. telecast in more than two years.
> 
> After two weeks behind football, “The Orville” will now settle in on Thursdays with a smaller lead-in and lower ratings expectations. But Fox execs are pleased with the sampling the show got at launch: According to the network, which recently saw the live+7 day (which includes a week’s worth of DVR and VOD usage) numbers, “The Orville” was Fox’s most-viewed drama debut since “Empire” in 2015, and the highest-rated drama launch among any broadcast network in adults 18-49 since ABC’s “Designated Survivor” last September.
> 
> Meanwhile, despite naysayers claiming NFL ratings have been damaged by #TakeAKnee, the top programs on TV for the week ending Sept. 24 were Sunday Night Football in both adults 18-49 and total viewers. FX’s “American Horror Story: Cult” continues to see massive time-shifted gains, jumping 102% between its live broadcast and three days later. And NBC’s “The Good Place” returned for Season 2 in a good place.
> As for the latest on-demand viewership chart from Xfinity, it appears viewers were looking to catch up on “Will & Grace” on the eve of its return, and have also rediscovered HBO’s “Big Little Lies” after the limited-run series’ big Emmy win. Other new shows making waves: PBS’ “The Vietnam War” documentary series, Fox’s “The Orville,” and HBO’s “The Deuce.




http://www.indiewire.com/2017/09/or...gs-watch-week-ending-september-24-1201882187/


----------



## Hand of Evil

How Rotten Tomatoes has it - also Star Trek


----------



## Morrus

Hand of Evil said:


> How Rotten Tomatoes has it - also Star Trek




Most of the Trek raters are rating the US network's broadcast strategy, not the show. It's actually really frustrating trying to have a conversation about it if you're not American.


----------



## calronmoonflower

Ryujin said:


> Episode 4 - "For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky"-ish.




I recognized the the generation ship plot line as a possibility before they even entered the ship.
It had a nice take on the use of rancor to control people, shut down opposition, and maintain  control.
The part that really bothered me is the reaction to opening up the sky should have been sheer panic.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Agreed.  That was the Azimovian take on things I mentioned.


----------



## CapnZapp

calronmoonflower said:


> I recognized the the generation ship plot line as a possibility before they even entered the ship.
> It had a nice take on the use of rancor to control people, shut down opposition, and maintain  control.
> The part that really bothered me is the reaction to opening up the sky should have been sheer panic.



I didn't see no Rancor 

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----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I would so love a sci-fi show to focus on traditional military style structured away teams.  The various Stargate series came closest, but too often in even in that franchise, higher-ranked or invaluable personnel were sent into dangerous situations.




Well, the SG-1 team was the exploration team, of course, so it made sense most of the time. Everyone had valuable skills, but they were decidedly valuable in the field primarily.


----------



## Ryujin

calronmoonflower said:


> I recognized the the generation ship plot line as a possibility before they even entered the ship.
> It had a nice take on the use of rancor to control people, shut down opposition, and maintain  control.
> The part that really bothered me is the reaction to opening up the sky should have been sheer panic.




Panic, or stunned shock. I'd take either response to something that massive and new.

The methods of control even reminded me of "StarLost"; religious oppression of a largely agrarian populace.


----------



## Maxperson

CapnZapp said:


> I didn't see no Rancor




That's because it's trying to be like Star Trek, not Star Wars.


----------



## Zaukrie

Ya, fear would have been their response. That could have been an interesting thing to follow. Maybe.


----------



## calronmoonflower

CapnZapp said:


> I didn't see no Rancor
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




"bitter deep-seated ill will", not the poor Innocent beast Luke killed.


----------



## CapnZapp

calronmoonflower said:


> "bitter deep-seated ill will", not the poor Innocent beast Luke killed.



Captain Obvious salutes you!  

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----------



## Jester David

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I would so love a sci-fi show to focus on traditional military style structured away teams.  The various Stargate series came closest, but too often in even in that franchise, higher-ranked or invaluable personnel were sent into dangerous situations.



Even then, Stargate had a Colonel and Major going off with a few volunteer personnel into missions. That's not much better then sending down a captain and lt. commander. 

The idea of sending mooks down is a good one. But then you have two different casts: the one on the bridge and the one going planetside.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Jester David said:


> Even then, Stargate had a Colonel and Major going off with a few volunteer personnel into missions. That's not much better then sending down a captain and lt. commander.
> 
> The idea of sending mooks down is a good one. But then you have two different casts: the one on the bridge and the one going planetside.




Nah, you just film the show about the mooks- THEY'RE the stars.  The higher ranked officers get screen time only when issuing orders.  Like _Charlie's Angels_.


----------



## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Nah, you just film the show about the mooks- THEY'RE the stars.  The higher ranked officers get screen time only when issuing orders.  Like _Charlie's Angels_.




I was hoping that was the sort of thing we'd be seeing in Discovery; a serious take on "Red Shirt Diaries." No such luck, it would seem. Any team going planetside would involve an officer (probably Lt., but perhaps as high as Cmdr), a senior NCO, and some grunts/sciencey types depending upon the mission.


----------



## Jester David

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Nah, you just film the show about the mooks- THEY'RE the stars.  The higher ranked officers get screen time only when issuing orders.  Like _Charlie's Angels_.



That would be interesting. A "lower decks" series. 
The funny thing was that's a little like how Discovery was teased, with a protagonist that's a lt. commander. And people wondered how that would work...


----------



## Orius

Dannyalcatraz said:


> 2) when they opened the "sun roof" after thousands of years, there were surprised inhabitants, but nothing like happened in Asimov's "Nightfall".  Of course, just because they hadn't seen genuine space, it doesn't necessarily follow that the ship didn't have simulated day/night cycles.  Of course, if you've got that roof, why simulate night?




Nightfall was the first thing that came to my mind when they opened that up. 

And I found the "Boom, bitch!" line to be hilarious.  Mostly because I was thinking just how badly out of character that would be for someone like Worf or Tuvok in that situation.

Tonight's episode was pretty good too.  I think the Mr. Potato Head scene was one of the funnier ones so far.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> And I found the "Boom, bitch!" line to be hilarious.




As did I!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Oh noes!  Temporal paradox!


----------



## CapnZapp

Yeah, not only was that incomprehensible, it was way too soapy too.

I guess the sole redeeming factor is if the transport thingy is still there in his drawer; explaining how that tech entered the Orville universe.

Other than that: meh

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----------



## Ryujin

Orius said:


> Nightfall was the first thing that came to my mind when they opened that up.
> 
> And I found the "Boom, bitch!" line to be hilarious.  Mostly because I was thinking just how badly out of character that would be for someone like Worf or Tuvok in that situation.
> 
> Tonight's episode was pretty good too.  I think the Mr. Potato Head scene was one of the funnier ones so far.




While something like the leg as a response was predictable (it was going to be something hugely inappropriate), it was still funny to me. I thought that the whole thing played out like a TNG episode, barring the comedy relief. Reminded me a bit of the Matt Frewer episode of TNG.


----------



## Richards

I did notice that while the leg seemed to have been removed below the knee, when it fell from its hiding place in the ceiling it looked to have been removed closer to the hip.  It must have been regenerating up there in its hiding place!  Good thing they found it when they did or it might have eventually grown into another full-grown helmsman!

Also, I see we got some sort of "photon torpedo" in this episode - the weapon the Orville used to shut down the wormhole.  What with the potential for the teleport device to become a future "transporter" technology, about all we're missing from Star Trek now is a universal translator - although given the fact that all of the alien species are speaking the same language, we can assume there's something like that already in play, if not out on display front and center.

Johnathan


----------



## Zaukrie

I keep forgetting to watch this. Will have to stream it again!


----------



## Ryujin

Richards said:


> I did notice that while the leg seemed to have been removed below the knee, when it fell from its hiding place in the ceiling it looked to have been removed closer to the hip.  It must have been regenerating up there in its hiding place!  Good thing they found it when they did or it might have eventually grown into another full-grown helmsman!
> 
> Also, I see we got some sort of "photon torpedo" in this episode - the weapon the Orville used to shut down the wormhole.  What with the potential for the teleport device to become a future "transporter" technology, about all we're missing from Star Trek now is a universal translator - although given the fact that all of the alien species are speaking the same language, we can assume there's something like that already in play, if not out on display front and center.
> 
> Johnathan




I will admit that seeing the leg that fell from the ceiling had me wondering if we were going to find out that someone else has also lost a leg. Continuity error.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully

I think the humor and the story-telling is improving episode by episode. I think they might find the right balance yet. (Or maybe they have already.)


----------



## CapnZapp

Ryujin said:


> I will admit that seeing the leg that fell from the ceiling had me wondering if we were going to find out that someone else has also lost a leg. Continuity error.



Huh? Your first thought was "since that's clearly not his leg, whose is it?"

Talk about nitpicking - I didn't even consider any other possibility than that they had found his old leg.

(The simple fact it made for a quick sight gag was enough for me, no need to overthink a show from the creator of Family Guy)

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----------



## CapnZapp

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I think the humor and the story-telling is improving episode by episode. I think they might find the right balance yet. (Or maybe they have already.)



Actually I would be slightly disappointed if they settle without any deeply immature jokes. 

Thank god for that scene where Theron relates the "diplomatic gesture" - without that small piece of dialog there would have been no sign she didn't play her role entirely straight (and thus boring)

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----------



## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> Huh? Your first thought was "since that's clearly not his leg, whose is it?"
> 
> Talk about nitpicking - I didn't even consider any other possibility than that they had found his old leg.
> 
> (The simple fact it made for a quick sight gag was enough for me, no need to overthink a show from the creator of Family Guy)
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




Nitpicking because I saw something obvious and thought that they were taking the joke further? Oooookay....


----------



## Mortilupo

I surprisely like it and hope it gersxa second season.

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----------



## Jester David

Richards said:


> I did notice that while the leg seemed to have been removed below the knee, when it fell from its hiding place in the ceiling it looked to have been removed closer to the hip.  It must have been regenerating up there in its hiding place!  Good thing they found it when they did or it might have eventually grown into another full-grown helmsman!



When he fell over out of bed I recall it being amputated mid-thigh.

But the show is lowish budget. I imagine they just borrowed a prop leg from the Fox prop department rather than making an entire new fake leg for two shots.


----------



## Richards

When he first hobbled onto the bridge screaming for Isaac's head, you could see the stump below the knee poking out from the leg of his shorts.

But I agree with his (eventual) assessment: as practical jokes go, that one was awesome (give the ability to regrow the leg without too much fuss - it would have sucked otherwise)!

Johnathan


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## calronmoonflower

Isaac wouldn't know enough about human culture to include adding painted toes and panty hoes.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

...depending on how much research on humans he did.


----------



## Deset Gled

I assume I'm not going to be the first person to say this (and I'm not going to scour the 45 pages of posts between the Discovery thread and this one to find out who was first), but the Orville really seams more like Star Trek to me than Discovery does right now.  From the big stuff like the overall concept being episodic and exploration based instead of being a war drama, to the little stuff like the lighting and sound, and even including the characters and allegorical plots, it just feels more Trekkie to me.  To be fair, parody requires a lot less continuity and is guaranteed to be nitpicked less.  But Orville nailed the aesthetic while Discovery seems hell bent on reinventing it.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ahhhhyup.


----------



## Ryujin

Deset Gled said:


> I assume I'm not going to be the first person to say this (and I'm not going to scour the 45 pages of posts between the Discovery thread and this one to find out who was first), but the Orville really seams more like Star Trek to me than Discovery does right now.  From the big stuff like the overall concept being episodic and exploration based instead of being a war drama, to the little stuff like the lighting and sound, and even including the characters and allegorical plots, it just feels more Trekkie to me.  To be fair, parody requires a lot less continuity and is guaranteed to be nitpicked less.  But Orville nailed the aesthetic while Discovery seems hell bent on reinventing it.




Orville also seems more Trek in the way that they slip in the social commentary, as opposed to the sledge hammer of Discovery. I've seen three episodes of Discovery and, where I would ordinarily give a show 5 or six before deciding if I would keep watching, I'm already done with Discovery.


----------



## CapnZapp

So far I agree the Orville is looking like the more interesting show, and the more Trekkian by a landslide.

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----------



## Jeux Fictifs

May you see new rpg about Orville 
Play fun character in a game where no one would go ;-)


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Jeux Fictifs said:


> May you see new rpg about Orville
> Play fun character in a game where no one would go ;-)




Namely, Yaphit's quarters.


----------



## Mallus

Deset Gled said:


> But Orville nailed the aesthetic while Discovery seems hell bent on reinventing it.



The way I look at it, The Orville is comfortable replicating ST:TNG (with bits of TOS thrown in) while Discovery is trying to boldly go someplace new (despite being a prequel), and without being entirely successful. 

I'm glad both are on. But I'll give the Orville this, despite the obvious amount of money spent on Discovery, the Orville wins the Beautiful Sci-fi Imagery Award so far, for the lovely "opening the sun roof on the generation starship" scene and the equally great "flight through the dark matter globules" & "into the wormhole" scenes in the last episode. 

It's sights like that that really justify SF on TV & the silver screen.


----------



## cbwjm

Opening the sun roof was fantastic. Loving what they are doing with the Orville. I still need to start watching discovery. It's on my watch list but I still haven't started it.


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Especially when their data searches take eyeblinks to complete.


----------



## Orius

I wonder if McFarlane plays D&D, because someone pulled out one of the dirtiest tricks in the RBDM playbook here.


[Sblock]Krill kids?  That's just nasty.[/Sblock] Always chaotic evil?

I thought it was a pretty good episode.


----------



## Ryujin

Orius said:


> I wonder if McFarlane plays D&D, because someone pulled out one of the dirtiest tricks in the RBDM playbook here.
> 
> 
> [Sblock]Krill kids?  That's just nasty.[/Sblock] Always chaotic evil?
> 
> I thought it was a pretty good episode.




Yup, typical Star Trek style moral quandary. I enjoyed it very much. I have to wonder now if the same moral question comes up every time that they engage a Krill ship?

And to the resolution: Can you say, "Pop goes the weasel"?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> Yup, typical Star Trek style moral quandary. I enjoyed it very much. I have to wonder now if the same moral question comes up every time that they engage a Krill ship?
> 
> And to the resolution: Can you say, "Pop goes the weasel"?




Well, if they try hard, they could probably design UV based AP weaponry they could deploy once the Krill ships' shields are sufficiently low, that could selectively take out crucial command/control crew.  Boarding parties- probably with more UV based weapons- could then capture those disabled ships.

Given the writers'- and thus select members of the crew- love of classic tunes, I'd imagine the theme song for the Union's dismantling of the Krill empire would feature:
[video=youtube;6F7xbF7OnxU]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6F7xbF7OnxU&sns=em[/video]

And 
[video=youtube;cKkbIZtqhyQ]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cKkbIZtqhyQ&sns=em[/video]


----------



## Ryujin

I'd go with this:

[video=youtube;9uFQQOiMr8M]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9uFQQOiMr8M[/video]


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And for the coup de grace?

[video=youtube;JD-v7vVxJ4U]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JD-v7vVxJ4U&sns=em[/video]


----------



## Ryujin

Jeez! That'll set off the epileptics!!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And how 'bout YJM rockin' the upside-down leftie strat?  His pyrotechnic technique will probably kill as many Krill as his actual pyrotechnics.


----------



## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And how 'bout YJM rockin' the upside-down leftie strat?  His pyrotechnic technique will probably kill as many Krill as his actual pyrotechnics.




But it won't set off any epileptics.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> But it won't set off any epileptics.




It might if they also have synesthesia.


----------



## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> It might if they also have synesthesia.




Then they have big enough problems after the Funk.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Point.


----------



## Kaodi

I kind of wish the show had a bit better production values, and that some of the less entertaining running gags were dropped. I do not know if that would bring it too close to being straight Star Trek though. Like, the sets could afford to look a little bit more real I think (though the budget might not necessarily afford it). The slime can go. And the humour could be sharper at times. The stuff they give Jimm- I mean, Scott Grimes, can be a little tooooo on the nose silly. But I manage to enjoy the show.


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Aggressive, expansionist theocracies are a real thing.  So are likewise aggressive, expansionist secular societies...and completely non-theistic ones.  Why eliminate an option from your writers' bag of tricks?


----------



## Mallus

Legatus_Legionis said:


> I personally hate when they mix sci-fi with open politics/religion.  They did that with Star Trek: DS9 and I found it took away from the show.



They did it at lot in the original Star Trek series, too. It's still fair not to like it, but you have to admit religion and politics have been in Trek's DNA since 1966.

edit: I mean, ham-fisted religious and political allegory is kinda a defining trait in Trek and Trek-like sci-fi.


----------



## Orius

Legatus_Legionis said:


> Considering how badly the infiltration team was acting, I was surprised the Krill did not put them into medical supervision.
> 
> Lt. Gordon Malloy definately needs to learn now to keep his mouth shut on such missions, or any away missions for that matter.
> 
> So will the UNION give the Captain an award?  His mission, to get a scan of the holy book of the Krill so the union can get a better understanding of the Krill.
> 
> Why get just a scan, when we can deliver an actually book housed in an actual Krill Destroyer ship!
> 
> Or would they give him a reprimand for putting the mission at rick for saving the Krill Kids from the killer UV rays?




Agreed with Malloy, he said so many stupid things, I'm surprised they didn't get caught.  But it's part of the show's more comedic bent.

Then too, the Krill acted friendly enough until he finally was caught.  Maybe there's an element of Not So Different here.

Why would they reprimand the captain for saving the kids?  It's well within the spirit of Trek they're trying to capture here.


----------



## calronmoonflower

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Aggressive, expansionist theocracies are a real thing.  So are likewise aggressive, expansionist secular societies...and completely non-theistic ones.  Why eliminate an option from your writers' bag of tricks?




And then there is the One Rule For Me, Another For Thee way of thinking that they have on top of it.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Technically, since it was an intel gathering mission with an eye towards finding common grounds upon which a Krill-Union peace treaty could be built, his saving of the kids did not jeopardize the stated mission of obtaining a copy of the holy book (they had already achieved half of their mission directive- they just needed to get back).  Those who were spared- kids & one adult (of unknown competence) would present little threat to their odds of return or ability to follow through on the plan they adopted on their own initiative, namely, thwarting the weapons test on the unsuspecting colonists.  Besides, saving innocents would be well within Union ethical codes.   

In addition, their mercy towards the kids _may_ also provide leverage in the negotiations, if any materialize.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

calronmoonflower said:


> And then there is the One Rule For Me, Another For Thee way of thinking that they have on top of it.




How do you mean?


----------



## calronmoonflower

Dannyalcatraz said:


> How do you mean?




The Krill did state that a soul is judged by the sword of the Krill that wields it and are just fine with attacking unarmed targets/civilians, but when it comes to human killing hostile Krill show the humans lacks soul (the opposite of how the Krill judge themselves).


----------



## CapnZapp

calronmoonflower said:


> The Krill did state that a soul is judged by the sword of the Krill that wields it and are just fine with attacking unarmed targets/civilians, but when it comes to human killing hostile Krill show the humans lacks soul (the opposite of how the Krill judge themselves).



Not sure I can parse your sentence, but I can say that I did not get the impression the Krill are continously scanning other species for a soul.

While their Bible might say so, I'm getting the impression that was a done deal - that their religion teaches us that once upon a time every other race than the Krill was found wanting.

It's not that the teacher was actively judging Mercer, as in forming her own conclusion, that you then find illogical. 

She was dead-set in her belief he lacks a soul and sees his actions in that light: while they were about to kill millions of colonists, ***they all lacked a soul***.

In contrast, Mercer killed dozens of souls - a much larger crime in her view. 

That he saved the children only meant they had to grow up bitter and with enmity. That he is soulless is beyond question, though.

The judgement only happened once, in the Krill's mythical past. It isn't something ongoing that leads the Krill to reevaluate their belief simply by actions of compassion.

At least, that's my take-away. Her reaction is many things, but not illogical. 

(Of course, I fully anticipate the Orville *forcing* the Krill to reevaluate eventually) 

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


----------



## Jester David

The latest episode certainly did bring in a harsh moral dilemma. And it didn't shy away from the ramifications. Mercer totally radiclalized a bunch of youths, by murdering the people on their ship. Possibly family members. 

The krill religion isn't really that extreme either. The Bible is pretty clear that only humans have souls. When/if we do meet aliens, there's going to be a lot of religious folk convinced they're really demons or lack souls or need to be converted to Christianity.


----------



## Kaodi

Why would the Krill hate a bunch of soulless beings though? If they do not have souls, there is nothing there for them to hate. Dealing with the Union might be a matter of clearing away a dangerous pest, but if all of the other races are just biological machines it does not make much sense to ascribe crimes to them, in the same way we do not suggest animals have committed a crime when they kill humans. We just kill the killer animal and move on.


----------



## calronmoonflower

CapnZapp said:


> Not sure I can parse your sentence, but I can say that I did not get the impression the Krill are continously scanning other species for a soul.




Sorry for my weird sentence, but the reasoning for other beings not having a soul was stated from the Krill's holy book. It was along a soul is judged the sword, or in other words the strength of their warcraft. But when other being show their strength at war it is used to justify that they lack a soul. The opposite of how the Krill themselves judge that they have souls. Thus One Rule For Me, And Another For Three.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Jester David said:


> The latest episode certainly did bring in a harsh moral dilemma. And it didn't shy away from the ramifications. Mercer totally radiclalized a bunch of youths, by murdering the people on their ship. Possibly family members.
> 
> The krill religion isn't really that extreme either. The Bible is pretty clear that only humans have souls. When/if we do meet aliens, there's going to be a lot of religious folk convinced they're really demons or lack souls or need to be converted to Christianity.




There have been writers who have novels along those lines.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Kaodi said:


> Why would the Krill hate a bunch of soulless beings though? If they do not have souls, there is nothing there for them to hate. Dealing with the Union might be a matter of clearing away a dangerous pest, but if all of the other races are just biological machines it does not make much sense to ascribe crimes to them, in the same way we do not suggest animals have committed a crime when they kill humans. We just kill the killer animal and move on.




And yet we know of humans who can be said to "hate" particular animals or species.


----------



## CapnZapp

calronmoonflower said:


> Sorry for my weird sentence, but the reasoning for other beings not having a soul was stated from the Krill's holy book. It was along a soul is judged the sword, or in other words the strength of their warcraft. But when other being show their strength at war it is used to justify that they lack a soul. The opposite of how the Krill themselves judge that they have souls. Thus One Rule For Me, And Another For Three.



And my point was that perhaps their scripture shouldn't be taken to indicate an active and continuous appraisal of the soul status of other species, just that Avis once passed judgement. 

In other words, perhaps it's not as much a case of double standards or bad logic as you might think.

Of course I'm not saying the alternative - fundamentalistic inflexibility - is any better...

I just responded to the way - you've repeated your criticism three times now - you seem to take it for granted that the teacher actively evaluated Mercers soul status.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

...as opposed to just reacting instinctively and emotionally to the tragedy of the loss of her crew mates.  Perhaps enhanced by suspicions that they were behind the destruction of the other ship as well.


----------



## calronmoonflower

CapnZapp said:


> And my point was that perhaps their scripture shouldn't be taken to indicate an active and continuous appraisal of the soul status of other species, just that Avis once passed judgement.




They stated that is how they "know" that humans and other species do not have souls based on their swords and Avis passing judgement on others is not mentioned. If I had to guess the existence of the souls of xenospecies is not actually mentioned in the Book of Avis and is not an official part of the religion, rather it is something that the Krill have conditioned themselves to believe without an actual religious bases.


----------



## CapnZapp

I'm just saying you come across as dismissive with your one and three rules business if you don't consider alternative explanations. Which would be kinda ironic.

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----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Ryujin

Legatus_Legionis said:


> The impression I got from the episode is that only the Krill have a soul, from their point of view, as is told by their book of avis.
> 
> Those that are not Krill, killing them is nothing.
> 
> So now that the union has the book, they can translate how this ideology came to be, what it means to have a soul/prove one has a soul, and how they can convince the Krill other beings (ib, humans, etc.) do have a soul.
> 
> Back in Babylon 5, and the Earth-Minbari War.  The Minbari was about to win the war until Cmdr Sinclair rammed his ship into a Minbari ship.  A scan of the human showed the Minbari that a human DOES have a soul.  They surrendered shortly there after.
> 
> Now how the union can prove they have a soul to the Krill...




Specifically MINBARI souls.


----------



## Deset Gled

Ryujin said:


> Orville also seems more Trek in the way that they slip in the social commentary, as opposed to the sledge hammer of Discovery. I've seen three episodes of Discovery and, where I would ordinarily give a show 5 or six before deciding if I would keep watching, I'm already done with Discovery.




After episode 3 of Discovery and Orville I was going to argue with you about the social commentary, but after the last two episodes I'm starting to agree.  I'm still giving Discovery a chance, though.

The last episode of Orville had one of my favorite notes of social commentary on both shows so far.  Paraphrasing:

"They're attacking the colony!"
"There are thousands of families down there!"
"And a lot of single people, too."


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

One thing I'm appreciating is that they're doing a much better job of lampooning sci-fi- especially a major property like ST- than similar attempts to make comedic hay of the fantasy genre.  While not all of the jokes have been winners, I can't recall many...well _any_ real clunkers.


----------



## CapnZapp

Deset Gled said:


> Paraphrasing:
> 
> "They're attacking the colony!"
> "There are thousands of families down there!"
> "And a lot of single people, too."



The best thing about that is it lets Captain Mercer voice a barb about the fact he himself is single 



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----------



## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I can't recall many...well _any_ real clunkers.



Who would expect clunkers in a McFarland show...!?  



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----------



## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> Who would expect clunkers in a McFarland show...!?




Could be worse. They could be doing incessant cut-aways.


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Ryujin

Legatus_Legionis said:


> Dam, I hate it when we get these "off" weeks.




The annoyances of the modern TV "season."


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Mallus

I really like 8-13 episode seasons, or a "long-ish series for the BBC". Some of the best recent TV operates under that model: GoT, Hannibal, Legion, The Expanse. 

But please for the love of God and Marshall McLuhan, run all your episodes straight through with no breaks!


----------



## Morrus

I’ve never seen a 26 episode show where a substantial portion wasn’t mediocre flab. Half that makes for a much tighter series (and even that can seem flabby sometimes - most of Marvel’s Netflix series should have been tighter and leaner).

The ridiculous idea that a series has to have 26 episodes or so is one of the reasons we have so much mediocre TV. The best stuff is often much tighter.


----------



## Ryujin

There's nothing wrong with a 10-12 episode "series", as seems t be the norm in places like the UK. I actually quite like it and Netflix seems to like them too. The problem with 'modern' North American TV 'seasons' is that they get you all warmed up with maybe 4-5 episodes then go into reruns of those episodes, before moving on. The 10-12 episode series might keep you waiting for the next series, but it doesn't seem to keep you waiting for the next episode. I think that's a superior manner of delivery.


----------



## Morrus

Ryujin said:


> There's nothing wrong with a 10-12 episode "series", as seems t be the norm in places like the UK. I actually quite like it and Netflix seems to like them too. The problem with 'modern' North American TV 'seasons' is that they get you all warmed up with maybe 4-5 episodes then go into reruns of those episodes, before moving on. The 10-12 episode series might keep you waiting for the next series, but it doesn't seem to keep you waiting for the next episode. I think that's a superior manner of delivery.




I watch loads of American series with 10-13 episodes. Going back as far as The Sopranos to modern stuff like Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead. I’m currently watching Ray Donovan, and The Good Place. The best US TV is rarely 26 episodes.


----------



## Ryujin

Morrus said:


> I watch loads of American series with 10-13 episodes. Going back as far as The Sopranos to modern stuff like Game of Thrones or The Walking Dead. I’m currently watching Ray Donovan, and The Good Place. The best US TV is rarely 26 episodes.




And what you're talking about being good is created by cable, not by broadcast TV. Like Netflix they tend toward the shorter season model.


----------



## Morrus

Ryujin said:


> And what you're talking about being good is created by cable, not by broadcast TV. Like Netflix they tend toward the shorter season model.




Those distinctions don't matter to me. I just watch what comes on Sky Atlantic or whatever here at home. I don't really care which companies make them.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Good shows are good, bad ones are bad, regardless of production company or length.


----------



## Kaodi

We need to get around to watching the last season of The Good Wife. 22 episodes, which is a brutal proportion of the stupid new Internet plan my parents "upgraded" to.


----------



## Jhaelen

Legatus_Legionis said:


> The days were a "season" took place every week for half the year (26 episodes) is long gone.  Now if we get 6 to 12 episodes and they consider it a "full" season.  Truly sad.



I definitely prefer shorter seasons. I consider ten episodes of 45 minutes each ideal. It's about the limit of what I can binge watch.


----------



## CapnZapp

Perhaps we can ask the moderators to spin out this general TV discussion into a thread of its own?

Thanks.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


----------



## Morrus

Interestingly Doctor Who is shortened to 10 fifty minute episodes next year rather than 12-13 45-minute episode. I’m not sure that five mins is much of a difference, but the three fewer episodes will be noticed.


----------



## trappedslider

Legatus_Legionis said:


> The days were a "season" took place every week for half the year (26 episodes) is long gone.  Now if we get 6 to 12 episodes and they consider it a "full" season.  Truly sad.




FYI: As i've stated elsewhere for the big four (fox,ABC,CBS,NBC) here  in the US (don't know and don't care about other countries) a full season is still either 22 to 24 episodes long for the most part, we just have more breaks than we used to.


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> The Tick (2001) - 9 episodes




This made me the saddest, then and now.


----------



## neobolts

I am really enjoying this show, to where it's become one I look forward to every week. 

The Good:
I like that it is at it's core, it is a TNG/DS9 era Trek show. The sci-fi tech, the moral quandaries, the action beats, the sweeping orchestral music...it's all there. 

The moral quandary aspects really shines. The Captain and XO in the lounge discussing at length the ethics of surgery on infants and forcing human cultural norms onto other species. Another excellent episode was 6, when they didn't take the easy route and have it be two cultures learning to understand one another. Instead, the other culture is irreconcilably focused on their demise as a matter of religious doctrine. Non-krill have no souls, and thus are a heresy that exists only to be purged.

The Not-As-Good
The humor works best when it is dry and deadpan (as someone pointed out earlier, like 1984 Ghostbusters). It works also when the characters act like real people, like when the helmsman is caught up in the moment of a victory in a space battle. Unfortunately, the humor falls apart when it is lazy and lowbrow, like anytime Norm McD's sexual harassment slime is on screen. The "bickering couple" aspect got stale early on and I hope the show learns to move past it.



Morrus said:


> Most of the Trek raters are rating the US network's broadcast strategy, not the show. It's actually really frustrating trying to have a conversation about it if you're not American.




It's so odd that we are in flipped situations. The Orville isn't on TV where you are, and Discovery is behind a streaming paywall I'm not willing to add to the budget over here. 

I've only seen the Discovery premiere as a result. But it looks like we're getting two different but promising takes on Trek at the same time. Orville is TNG-era Trek with forced jokes, and Discovery is a "Starfleet at war" storyline it seems, something  I enjoyed about later DS9.


----------



## Orius

And this week we get Social Media World.  There were some wickedly funny moments, but it was still a pretty serious episode.  This is the sort of thing that TOS would have done, though with a much better budget.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Reminded me a little of the TNG episode "Justice".


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Also, I have to say that the Orville's design is not my fave, but it's growing on me.  Some angles I really like.


----------



## CapnZapp

Finally we're back to discussing, y'know, the actual topic.

I guess I agree to reviews giving this week's episode a middling score.

The idea was ripe for setting up the away team for much more hilarious situations. There was way too much focus on the Debbie Downer seriousness.

Though I don't understand those getting angry they weren't prepared enough.

Previous eps have conclusively shown the Union to be a pretty presumptuous and reckless society. They sure don't put a lot of focus on research or respect - cue all the car rental jokes from last time.

In that context, that laMarr wouldn't take things seriously was never surprising.

Still, there should have been more jokes and awkward situations for the whole team - Palicki in hot jeans and tee, and they did nothing, goddammit - they kind of threw away that opportunity with the super-serious (and honestly, pretty lame) social media "critique"... 

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----------



## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Also, I have to say that the Orville's design is not my fave, but it's growing on me.  Some angles I really like.




I have a feeling that they made it illogically silly-looking as another nod to Trek.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Not so much the illogic as the "just don't like it" aspect.  But like I said, it's growing on me.


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## Morrus

From what I hear, this was just a weaker remake of a Black Mirror episode from last year?


----------



## Ryujin

Legatus_Legionis said:


> With the talk still going on with election hacking/manipulation by the DNC, and here the Orville is doing their own digital media influencing to get the results they want.
> 
> I found the timing to be... ironic.
> 
> The episode does raise some interesting issues.
> 
> Electronic voting.
> 
> Voting by public/personal opinion over facts.
> 
> Correction (brain washing) as punishment.
> 
> Having one's citizens "tagged" for social order.
> 
> The one-sidedness of television/talk shows/etc.
> 
> 
> These are serious topics, and one I am glad The Orville does touch upon.
> 
> And that we get to see other members of the crew as the focal point of the show is great.  Afterall, the show is more than just the Captain & first mate (oh bad pun here).




- Opinion masquerading as fact
- Social media pile-on effect


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## CapnZapp

Well, too much and too much.

Compared to if Peter, Quagmire & friends would do a mission, the Orville crew is outright competent ☺

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----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully

Morrus said:


> From what I hear, this was just a weaker remake of a Black Mirror episode from last year?




Not really a remake, but it covers the same ground. I'd say it was a bit pale compared to the Black Mirror episode.


----------



## neobolts

Against all odds, renewed for season 2!

http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/seth-macfarlanes-the-orville-1202605463/


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Woot!


----------



## Ryujin

neobolts said:


> Against all odds, renewed for season 2!
> 
> http://variety.com/2017/tv/news/seth-macfarlanes-the-orville-1202605463/




That's good news


----------



## Morrus

Woohoo! We're finally getting this on Dec 14th! Can't wait!


----------



## CapnZapp

neobolts said:


> Against all odds, renewed for season 2!



Against what odds?

McFarland is pretty popular at Fox, why didn't you think there would be a S2?


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----------



## neobolts

CapnZapp said:


> Against what odds?
> 
> McFarland is pretty popular at Fox, why didn't you think there would be a S2?




I was concerned because the show is tonally odd, its mix of exploring social issues and lowbrow humor doesn't always work. Secondly, the show has been savaged by critics and the ratings have fluctuated week to week. Lastly, it is on Fox. They have a history of cancelling sci-fi shows I like, particularly Firefly and Terra Nova. I was all but certain the show was doomed, and am glad it gets a season 2.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

CapnZapp said:


> Against what odds?
> 
> McFarland is pretty popular at Fox, why didn't you think there would be a S2?
> 
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app





Initial criticism from the pros was- on average- harsh.  Don’t know what the actual Nielsen’s were, though.


----------



## Legatus Legionis

.


----------



## RC Hagy

CapnZapp said:


> Against what odds?
> 
> McFarland is pretty popular at Fox, why didn't you think there would be a S2?
> 
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




It is Fox. You like it, it gets cancelled.


----------



## CapnZapp

RC Hagy said:


> It is Fox. You like it, it gets cancelled.



You're an old Firefly acolyte, I take it...? 

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----------



## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> You're an old Firefly acolyte, I take it...? [/URL]




Or Brisco County Jr., or The Tick, or The Lone Gunmen, or The Terminator, or.....


----------



## RC Hagy

CapnZapp said:


> You're an old Firefly acolyte, I take it...?
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




Yup.


----------



## RC Hagy

Ryujin said:


> Or Brisco County Jr., or The Tick, or The Lone Gunmen, or The Terminator, or.....




and yup by at least 5.


----------



## CapnZapp

Latest episode - LOVED IT!

It was both smutty and immature... and a classic Trek story... and actually progressive and a middle-finger to homophobiacs... _but mostly smutty and immature_


----------



## CapnZapp

https://www.upi.com/Adrianne-Palick...year-old-self-was-dying-inside/1871507338595/

WHAT A SET UP. Not only the incessant romancing of the Doctor by Yaphet in ep after ep; the blue alien in ep 1 actually _was_ Lowe.



> The filmmakers also said they would love it if Lowe would come back and play a different role some day since he looked so different in his one Orville scene.




Heh.


----------



## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> Latest episode - LOVED IT!
> 
> It was both smutty and immature... and a classic Trek story... and actually progressive and a middle-finger to homophobiacs... _but mostly smutty and immature_ View attachment 90834




TNG Trek enough that it was no surprise. And the biggest upside is that they can now walk away from all of the cheating references.


----------



## Orius

neobolts said:


> I was concerned because the show is tonally odd, its mix of exploring social issues and lowbrow humor doesn't always work. Secondly, the show has been savaged by critics and the ratings have fluctuated week to week. Lastly, it is on Fox. They have a history of cancelling sci-fi shows I like, particularly Firefly and Terra Nova. I was all but certain the show was doomed, and am glad it gets a season 2.




Yeah, the critics hate it, but the audience seems to like it.  Sure, there's a lot that's silly and lowbrow, but it's done a pretty good job of following in Trek's footsteps.  I enjoyed it from the start, it's just a fun show to watch.  Honestly, it's been too long since there's been any decent space opera like this on TV, people say there's too much dark Sci-Fi and the audience is enjoying this as something fresh.  To me a lot of what's on broadcast TV seems to be lots of superhero stuff, and while that's not bad, this show's a great change of pace.  Sure, there's a lot of puerile humor, but they've done pretty well with social commentary stuff; the Social Media World episode was the sort of thing you'd see back in the TOS days or the classic Twilight Zone.

This week's episode wasn't too bad either, though I found the plot twists to be pretty predictable.  It still delivered well.

[sblock]I had a feeling that Lowe's character was kind of manipulating Kelly somehow, and it was pretty funny when Ed started getting affected too.  Interesting twist on it too that it wasn't malicious either, more of an oblivious but self-centered "I don't see what the big deal is, my culture is just totally into free love".  I figured they'd solve the weekly conflict with a love fest thing too once everyone figured out what was going on.  And it should be interesting to see how this affects Ed and Kelly's relationship when it was revealed that she was likely under the same influence a year ago.[/sblock]


----------



## Ryujin

Orius said:


> Yeah, the critics hate it, but the audience seems to like it.  Sure, there's a lot that's silly and lowbrow, but it's done a pretty good job of following in Trek's footsteps.  I enjoyed it from the start, it's just a fun show to watch.  Honestly, it's been too long since there's been any decent space opera like this on TV, people say there's too much dark Sci-Fi and the audience is enjoying this as something fresh.  To me a lot of what's on broadcast TV seems to be lots of superhero stuff, and while that's not bad, this show's a great change of pace.  Sure, there's a lot of puerile humor, but they've done pretty well with social commentary stuff; the Social Media World episode was the sort of thing you'd see back in the TOS days or the classic Twilight Zone.
> 
> This week's episode wasn't too bad either, though I found the plot twists to be pretty predictable.  It still delivered well.
> 
> [sblock]I had a feeling that Lowe's character was kind of manipulating Kelly somehow, and it was pretty funny when Ed started getting affected too.  Interesting twist on it too that it wasn't malicious either, more of an oblivious but self-centered "I don't see what the big deal is, my culture is just totally into free love".  I figured they'd solve the weekly conflict with a love fest thing too once everyone figured out what was going on.  And it should be interesting to see how this affects Ed and Kelly's relationship when it was revealed that she was likely under the same influence a year ago.[/sblock]




Lowe was the perfect actor for the part. Reminded me of his role in James Gunn's early movie "The Specials."


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

My ONE problem was the Yaphit/Doctor love scene.  

I’ve seen too many movies like_ The Blob_ to have so rapidly reached the conclusion Alara Kitan did that it was sex and not supper she was witnessing.  Kind of like when Lal (Data’s daughter in TNG) saw the couple kissing and exclaimed “He’s biting that female!”  I was expecting her to go in with fists & feet flailing.  _Awkward!_


----------



## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> My ONE problem was the Yaphit/Doctor love scene.
> 
> I’ve seen too many movies like_ The Blob_ to have so rapidly reached the conclusion Alara Kitan did that it was sex and not supper she was witnessing.  Kind of like when Lal (Data’s daughter in TNG) saw the couple kissing and exclaimed “He’s biting that female!”  I was expecting her to go in with fists & feet flailing.  _Awkward!_




In the ST:TNG episode that you're talking about Lal was a newborn, with zero context for what was happening. In "The Orrville" some people have been complaining about the building of that context since episode 1. Plus the face. I don't think that there was any real chance of misconstruing what was going on


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> In the ST:TNG episode that you're talking about Lal was a newborn, with zero context for what was happening. In "The Orrville" some people have been complaining about the building of that context since episode 1. Plus the face. I don't think that there was any real chance of misconstruing what was going on




We don’t know what Alara knows, true.  But as to the face?  We already had one species on board spreading pheromones.  Yaphit’s species could just as easily used chemicals to bliss out their prey to immobility, a la the giant slime mold in _X-Files’_ “Field Trip” episode.


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## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> We don’t know what Alara knows, true.  But as to the face?  We already had one species on board spreading pheromones.  Yaphit’s species could just as easily used chemicals to bliss out their prey to immobility, a la the giant slime mold in _X-Files’_ “Field Trip” episode.




Could, but it's not exactly reasonable to jump to that conclusion when everything leading up to walking into that room has been headed in a completely different direction. When you see Picard ordering Earl Grey from the replicator in the majority of ST:TNG episodes would you assume that he had Scotch in his cup when he's on the bridge?


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## Dannyalcatraz

But Alara didn’t _see_ all that happen like we did.  She saw the 1st officer acting odd (don’t recall if she knew about the being caught in bed thing).  She heard the report of the captain acting odd and the kids reporting being locked out.  But all the sexually charged interactions she knew of were with people whom she knew had directly interacted with Darulio.  WE knew Darulio had had contact with Yaphit, she didn’t.

Besides, as I said, _I_ wouldn’t have jumped to the conclusion she had because of _my_ past Sci-Fi viewing.  _Her_ past experiences could have included a lot more discussions with the doctor about Yaphit’s advances, which would have let her make that intuitive leap.


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## CapnZapp

Guys, let's not forget the Orville isn't the sharpest tool in the shed. There's no reason to get upset just because they don't meet the standards set by Picard & Co.

For instance, I loved the way Malloy had the chance to solve the puzzle only to get exactly nowhere. Which is just what I expected from the man who thought the capital of the United States was "the Moon?" 

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


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## Dannyalcatraz

Oh, we KNOW they’re not the best & brightest The Union has to offer!


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## CapnZapp

Ryujin said:


> TNG Trek enough that it was no surprise. And the biggest upside is that they can now walk away from all of the cheating references.



I hope you won't be dismayed when they replace that with all the ribbing Dr Claire's gonna get, if my hunch about MacFarlane's humor is correct


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## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> My ONE problem was the Yaphit/Doctor love scene.
> 
> I’ve seen too many movies like_ The Blob_ to have so rapidly reached the conclusion Alara Kitan did that it was sex and not supper she was witnessing.  Kind of like when Lal (Data’s daughter in TNG) saw the couple kissing and exclaimed “He’s biting that female!”  I was expecting her to go in with fists & feet flailing.  _Awkward!_



Nah. The scene was played for "awkward sexytimes". Alara has probably not seen even one The Blob movie. 

(Unless it is later shown she has. Perhaps they're Yaphit's favorites?!)


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## CapnZapp

I must confess, my enjoyment of the episode is to no small extent based on the high-brow anger at the episode. Seth, you've successfully trolled them yet again - high five! 

Allow me the indulgence of copying a few choice comments from one place discussing the show (AV Club in this instance):

_"I was not expecting the episode to deal with an alien with roofie powers but here we are. He got off pretty goddamned light considering he knew what was happening and did nothing to really stop it."

"Okay, we can stop pretending that Orville is “more positive” than Discovery now."

"My biggest problem with this show is how utterly unprofessional all these people are."_ (Allow me to reply using another quote: _"When Gordon points out that people are acting irresponsibly, you know something is very wrong."_  )


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## CapnZapp

The way 1) noone bothers to check up on alien powers beforehand is definitely turning into a theme (whether the Union is arrogant or the Orville crew is just lazy doesn't matter - I like it, and it does make it easier to tell stories) 2) nobody expects daarulio to take any responsibility for his own powers 3) amoeba sex is apparently much less traumatic / more common in The Union (and don't say you didn't know it was coming, given how Yaphet has essentially not been shown doing anything except court the good Doctor) 3b) liked how the "oh, I stepped in the cat puke puddle" was used several times before, and thus served to mask the pheromone transferral plot point 4) people are _very_ fast to dress post-coitus (oh what a missed opportunity to allow Kelly time to wash away the blue stains this time) 5) now we know Yaphit's occupation, and it makes a lot of sense he's a tube engineer 6) On a less sordid show, none of this would never be mentioned again - luckily The Orville is not a less sordid show 7) even though I spotted the end solution a mile away, the point of the ep wasn't the drama and excitement, so that didn't bother me one bit. In fact, the show itself arguably understood this, pushing "Daarulio fixes everything" off-screen 8) please continue with the "Alara steps into awkward cannot-be-unseen scenes theme"


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## Dannyalcatraz

CapnZapp said:


> Nah. The scene was played for "awkward sexytimes". Alara has probably not seen even one The Blob movie.
> 
> (Unless it is later shown she has. Perhaps they're Yaphit's favorites?!)




My expectations were just as awkward.  Imagine having a security officer barge into your boudoir and forcibly seperate you from your lover because she thought you were hurting the other person.  Some parents* have experienced this when they’ve forgotten to lock the door and their toddler charges in, yelling “Stop hurting mommy!!!”

Of course, that would have involved a longer scene, and that might not have fit as well into the flow of the story.  We’d have lost out on some of the “strategic camera angle shots” post the Lowe/MacFarlane lovin’ scene.







* for the record, I’m not a parent, and this has never happened to me.  But I’ve been told _by_ parents...


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## CapnZapp

I wouldn't mind Horseton barging in on me, if you know what I'm sayin... 

(Actually, I quite understand if you don't understand, since I only wrote that because of this weird IMDB glitch... Her name isn't "Horseton".)

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


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## Mustrum_Ridcully

I'd say sex in the office is very inappropriate and unprofessional. Of course, this is a pseudo-Trek type not-really-military, so it would probably never be a big as a deal as it would be in real life, but I think it would still be okay to split them up. 

It's also fairly easy to consider Mercer and Kelly's interaction with Lowe as a form of date rape, and then using that to broker a peace seems to send a bit of a questionable message. 

I think they also missed an opportunity - the scene with Mercer surprising Kelly with Darulio again would have been much better if it was this time Kelly surprising Mercer and Darulio.


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## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> I hope you won't be dismayed when they replace that with all the ribbing Dr Claire's gonna get, if my hunch about MacFarlane's humor is correct




My hope is that it goes the "office party that you want to foget" route and no one ever speaks of it again, but you're probably right.


----------



## calronmoonflower

CapnZapp said:


> Latest episode - LOVED IT!
> 
> It was both smutty and immature... and a classic Trek story... and actually progressive and a middle-finger to homophobiacs... _but mostly smutty and immature_ View attachment 90834



Ah, you realize that the chemically inducted infatuation removes a personas ability to consent to sex right?
That means that it can actually fall into anti-homosexual stereotypes rather that being a finger homophobia.


----------



## CapnZapp

calronmoonflower said:


> Ah, you realize that the chemically inducted infatuation removes a personas ability to consent to sex right?
> That means that it can actually fall into anti-homosexual stereotypes rather that being a finger homophobia.



Nah, I'm pretty confident a homophobe would never write his own character to end up happy in bed with another man, chemicals or no chemicals... ☺



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


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## calronmoonflower

CapnZapp said:


> Nah, I'm pretty confident a homophobe would never write his own character to end up happy in bed with another man, chemicals or no chemicals... ☺
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app



Well I agree with this statement, but it is non-responsive to my actual point, as they are not mutually exclusive.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Dannyalcatraz

...of course, _NOW_ we could get a “Harry Mudd” type storyline where a con artist starts selling “Love Potion #9” harvested or synthesized from the pheromones generated by Darulio‘s people.


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## CapnZapp

Legatus_Legionis said:


> Unfortunately, the ackward tension between the Captain and the First Officer, now that at the end of the episode it was somewhat admitted the Blue Alien could (was) in heat the last time they meet, means a reconciliation of sorts is now possible.
> 
> Wish they did this episode later, so we could enjoy the tension more often between the two characters.



I do see your point, but how could we demand MacFarlane to hold off on his Yaphit love scene any longer when that's probably the main reason he started the show in the first place...


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## Dannyalcatraz

Just an FYI:
https://www.yahoo.com/news/seth-macfarlane-apos-orville-going-143809435.html


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## Orius

Ah, FOX scheduling strikes again!

Okay episode this week, never been a fan of these types of episodes though.  Crazy Claire was entertaining, as well that scene for all those arachnophobes out there, and LaMarr's clown phobia was funny.  Interesting twist at the end.  

Biggest missed opportunity was whatever holodeck simulation Gordon and LaMarr were about to run, especially after Bortas showed up with a powdered wig and pistol too.  I really wanted to see what they were going to run, because Gordon comes up with some pretty zany stuff in there.


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## Ryujin

Orius said:


> Ah, FOX scheduling strikes again!
> 
> Okay episode this week, never been a fan of these types of episodes though.  Crazy Claire was entertaining, as well that scene for all those arachnophobes out there, and LaMarr's clown phobia was funny.  Interesting twist at the end.
> 
> Biggest missed opportunity was whatever holodeck simulation Gordon and LaMarr were about to run, especially after Bortas showed up with a powdered wig and pistol too.  I really wanted to see what they were going to run, because Gordon comes up with some pretty zany stuff in there.




Just guessing: Burr-Hamilton duel?


----------



## Richards

I really liked this episode - probably because it featured Alara, who I was worried at first was just going to be a "look at how strong I am" character but has quickly become one of my favorites.  It was interesting to see she's considered something of a moron on her home world, having become a military officer (on a ship filled with "the hillbillies of the galaxy," no less!) instead of working on her degree.  And nice Robert Picardo cameo as her dad.

After a while it became apparent that the whole plot was something she had orchestrated herself, but up until that point it was intriguing to see where all of this was coming from.  All in all, I think this episode was one of my favorites.

And only two more left?  Curse these short TV seasons!

Johnathan


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## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> Just guessing: Burr-Hamilton duel?




Given his historical illiteracy?  I’m thinking _Rambo_.


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## Ryujin

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Given his historical illiteracy?  I’m thinking _Rambo_.




Well there were THREE people with dueling pistols.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> Well there were THREE people with dueling pistols.




Good point.

Perhaps they have *read or heard* tales of a legendary trio of dashing, charismatic warriors...


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## trappedslider

That's what happens when you have nothing but a party of bards.....


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## CapnZapp

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Good point.
> 
> Perhaps they have *read or heard* tales of a legendary trio of dashing, charismatic warriors...
> View attachment 91096



Perhaps these three can be in the Galaxy Quest show that's planned!  



Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


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## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> That's what happens when you have nothing but a party of bards.....




Infinite buff loop.


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## The_Silversword

Just started watching it, OMG! Why havnt you guys told me about this sooner? Im diggin it, I thought it was going to be a slapstick Trek parody, but its actually pretty good, better than the last few Treks, and they tackle some pretty serious issues, really makes you think, ya know?


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## Ryujin

The_Silversword said:


> Just started watching it, OMG! Why havnt you guys told me about this sooner? Im diggin it, I thought it was going to be a slapstick Trek parody, but its actually pretty good, better than the last few Treks, and they tackle some pretty serious issues, really makes you think, ya know?




I'm thinking of it as a social commentary pill wrapped in a light coating of comedy.

I only started watching "Black Mirror" a couple of days ago and now understand why people compare the social media planet episode to the first episode, first season of "Black Mirror." While the episode of that show was much better done, I cringed all the way through it. "The Orville" got essentially the same message across, with far less cringe.


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## Morrus

Ryujin said:


> I'm thinking of it as a social commentary pill wrapped in a light coating of comedy.
> 
> I only started watching "Black Mirror" a couple of days ago and now understand why people compare the social media planet episode to the first episode, first season of "Black Mirror." While the episode of that show was much better done, I cringed all the way through it. "The Orville" got essentially the same message across, with far less cringe.




That was the third season of Black Mirror. It’s s4 this year.


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## Ryujin

Morrus said:


> That was the third season of Black Mirror. It’s s4 this year.




Thanks for that. When I clicked on the series NetFlix, in their infinite wisdom, decided that I should start with the last season. Despite my selecting season 1 it obviously still felt that I should watch three. I was going to be rather confused when, after a couple of more episodes, it just stopped.


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## Orius

Well, last episode of the season.  And that kids, is why we have a Prime Directive (or whatever the Union calls it, but they did drop the phrase "cultural contamination" here, so we all know what we're dealing with).

The more we see of Moclan culture, the weirder it gets.

At least the show got picked up for a season 2, and rather easily, but it's going to be a long 9 months until next September.  It's been a great show so far, it's had a LOT of silly moments, but it's done the serious stuff right.


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## CapnZapp

Though they must be the least competent trek crew we've seen 

Not that I'm complaining 

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


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## Jeux Fictifs

I was hesitant in thinking that this will be a parody of next generation star trek ... but as far as I can see, I have several ... yes there is many jokes but it has interesting topics. I have the episode in which a member of the crew almost suffered a lobotomy because the population did not like a gesture with a statue. I told myself that we are not far from this situation in which your reputation is according to your "like" on this forum. ;-)


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## Orius

Oh yes, there was a lot of raging on YouTube about that episode, and I imagine Facebook, Twitter, reddit, et al., were probably worse.  I'd say with all smug cynicism that that episode hit a bit too close to home for some.  That was likely the episode's intent, and it delivered.


----------



## Jeux Fictifs

Because this episode of *ORVILLE* is interesting, 
because it is close to a reality 
because we are constantly judged on our actions and our words. 
By a society that tries to standardize our thinking by the majority.

May be that one qet me many dislike ;-)


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Good episode, on multiple levels.

And in classic American TV fashion, the story has ramifications that- in all probability- will never be revisited.  Namely, a culture that jumps centuries every month.

A few years in-setting down the road, their tech level will surpass pretty much everything seen or implied thus far.  All it takes with that level technological disparity is one bad egg with a starship to really cause problems on _The Orville’s_ side of the anomaly.  If that bad egg can muster more than that...

A few more years?  A century?


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## CapnZapp

I think their rationale for never revisiting this civilization is that they will very soon become benevolent space ghost elves. 

I guess religion (like politics) is off-topic for these boards, so I'll just say I liked the way the episode defined religion.

Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app


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## Ryujin

CapnZapp said:


> I think their rationale for never revisiting this civilization is that they will very soon become benevolent space ghost elves.
> 
> I guess religion (like politics) is off-topic for these boards, so I'll just say I liked the way the episode defined religion.
> 
> Sent from my C6603 using EN World mobile app




They could revisit them in some manner, next season, as either a Q analogue or the Seraphs from the original BSG.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Ryujin said:


> They could revisit them in some manner, next season, as either a Q analogue or the Seraphs from the original BSG.




Or the Traveler, yes. Or Trelane, the Squire of Gothos.  Or Apollo.  Or Charlie Evans and the Thalians.  Or Kevin Uxbridge, the Douwd.  Or any of the other ultrapowerful beings that have popped up.
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/The_Traveler
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Trelane
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Apollo
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Charles_Evans
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Kevin_Uxbridge
http://memory-alpha.wikia.com/wiki/Powerful_and_godlike_beings


But I don’t think they’ll go that route.  Despite touching on some heavy topics, I just don’t see them going further down this path.


----------



## Morrus

Woohoo! Orville starts here in 3 days! Can’t wait!


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## Rabulias

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And in classic American TV fashion, the story has ramifications that- in all probability- will never be revisited.  Namely, a culture that jumps centuries every month.



I was expecting them to say they had figured out a way to stop their planet shifting back and forth between dimensions, but they wanted to return Isaac.

Now that they are a space-faring planet, they would have incentive to do this. I forget how long they stayed in the Orville's dimension, but every hour there is more than 2 and a half years back in their home dimension. Interstellar trade, defense, and diplomatic relations would all suffer if a world disappeared for a few years, not to mention family/friends being off-world when the shift occurs.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Rabulias said:


> I was expecting them to say they had figured out a way to stop their planet shifting back and forth between dimensions, but they wanted to return Isaac.
> 
> Now that they are a space-faring planet, they would have incentive to do this. I forget how long they stayed in the Orville's dimension, but every hour there is more than 2 and a half years back in their home dimension. Interstellar trade, defense, and diplomatic relations would all suffer if a world disappeared for a few years, not to mention family/friends being off-world when the shift occurs.




A space station in the same orbit solves a lot of that.


----------



## Ryujin

Legatus_Legionis said:


> I can't recall a Sci-Fi show that has ever shown Religion in a positive light.
> 
> This latest episode of The Orville continues that trend.
> 
> While it also shows why as the more technologically advanced civilizations has those rules about interacting with lesser technologically ones until they are advanced enough to interact with the greater universe of civilizations.
> 
> I still think the original Star Trek episode "A Piece of the Action" did it best without the need to debase religion(s) as the current shows do.




In "The Expanse" The Church of Mormon are the first to consider using a generation ship to try and expand beyond our Solar System. In SciFi terms that's pretty favourable.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> In "The Expanse" The Church of Mormon .




umm, please in the future either call us Mormons or use the full name of the church which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we do however prefer the full name be used. Thank you


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> umm, please in the future either call us Mormons or use the full name of the church which is The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, we do however prefer the full name be used. Thank you




Certainly. Sorry if I offended.


----------



## Morrus

No real-world religion, please.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> Certainly. Sorry if I offended.




Not offended, and I wasn't aware of the Expanse, I'll have to look into it. Or I was aware and just forgot about it lol


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Not offended, and I wasn't aware of the Expanse, I'll have to look into it. Or I was aware and just forgot about it lol




What I mentioned comes up in season 2.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Not a clue.


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## Ryujin

MacFarlane first said that he's got a lot going on so it won't be until 2019, then in another interview said later this year. That's the round-about way of quoting Dannyalcatraz.


----------



## Lone Worg

If you're a fan of _The Orville_ I recommend that you check out the podcast *Planetary Union Network*. They've had a number of guests from the show including actors, producers, directors, writers, etc... Some of the guests have been Scott Grimes (Lt. Malloy), Mark Jackson (Isaac), Brannon Braga (exec producer/director), and Jonathan Frakes (director and he played some guy on a Star Trek show).

PUN is on all of the major podcast platforms like iTunes, Google Play, Stitcher, etc... Links on the website planetaryunion.net.


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## Legatus Legionis

.


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## Rabulias

Bah! DVD only? Where is the bluray?


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## Legatus Legionis

.


----------

