# Zombie Story gets student thrown in jail



## guedo79 (Feb 28, 2005)

Here is the story:
http://www.lex18.com/Global/story.asp?S=2989614

Wow. I haven't read the story but I can't believe something like this can happen. If he has called the school by name and talked of the deaths of actual people he needs a little time with a councilor but according to him it didn't even name the school.



I don't know if I should be upset about social paranoia, violation of free speech or what?


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## Mercule (Feb 28, 2005)

Given the information in the news article, I'm going to go with the notion that the cops, etc. are a bit paranoid.

I'm envisioning being in high school, running a d20 Modern, Hunter, or CoC game set in a high school.  Grandparents walk in, get freaked, call cops.  More freaking ensues.

If my impression is wrong, so be it.  But... I'm wondering if this thread is, by it's nature, too political for ENWorld.


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## WayneLigon (Feb 28, 2005)

This might be one of those things where we never know the whole story but it's very upsetting to read something like this. Taken at face value, I'd be very upset at the police, the school, the grandparents, and the obviously poorly-worded law that makes such a thing a felony. This entire 'nip it in the bud' philosophy is worrying.


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## Angcuru (Feb 28, 2005)

Given the information in this article, this is a complete and total overreaction.  I agree with the cops' stance on it up until ZOMBIES entered the issue.  A story about killings and deaths in a RL high school is dangerous stuff in today's environment, but once you see zombies, it makes sense to realize: "Hey, it's fantastical fiction.  Neat.  Go about your business."


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## Mystery Man (Feb 28, 2005)

Zombies are real and a very serious threat to our way of life. This kid deserved what he got, I hope he rots in jail for a good long time!!


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## Desdichado (Feb 28, 2005)

He must be one lousy writer judging by the grammer in his statements.  "It didn't mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn't mention (George Rogers Clark High School), didn't mention no principal or cops, nothing," said Poole.


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## Rel (Feb 28, 2005)

Let's hear it for the joys of ZERO TOLERANCE.  :\


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## Funeris (Feb 28, 2005)

Maybe they were afraid he was going to do some far-fetched Necromantic ritual to raise zombies to take over his school   hey! it could happen.

If the laws had been that way when I was in high school back before Columbine and all that trash...then I would've landed myself in jail so many times it wouldn't have been funny.  Especially since I was playing White Wolf games.

Oh well.  Guess you're just not legally allowed to have an imagination anymore.
<sigh>


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## GlassJaw (Feb 28, 2005)

> He must be one lousy writer judging by the grammer in his statements.





> Let's hear it for the joys of ZERO TOLERANCE.




Well it is [an inappropriate comment] after all

Edited by Pielorinho.  Reason: don't you or anyone else dare turn this into a political discussion, or the lock comes down!


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## Pielorinho (Feb 28, 2005)

> When Poole asked prosecutors whether they had any brains, the judge increased his bail to $50,000, citing the request as proof that he intended to carry out the threats in the story.




Sheesh.
Daniel
who sometimes makes up quotes


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## Pielorinho (Feb 28, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> He must be one lousy writer judging by the grammer in his statements. "It didn't mention nobody who lives in Clark County, didn't mention (George Rogers Clark High School), didn't mention no principal or cops, nothing," said Poole.




I noticed that too, but that's not going to keep me from pointing out that it's spelled gramm*a*r. 

Daniel


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## Rel (Feb 28, 2005)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> [comment edited out by Pielorinho]




Uncalled for and frankly offensive, GlassJaw.

Edited by Pielorinho: reason: damage control


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## Pielorinho (Feb 28, 2005)

*Moderator's Notes*:

*Glassjaw*, I edited out your comment; *Rel*, I also took his comment out of your post.  (There was nothing wrong with the latter post except that I was doing damage control).  

If this turns political, it's toast, folks.  Don't do that, please.

Daniel


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## Cyberzombie (Feb 28, 2005)

You might as well just shut this bad boy down right now.  All it takes is one person defending this action and FWOOSH, time to get the marshmellows.


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## reveal (Feb 28, 2005)

I'm not defending the actions of the police but let's look at it from a different angle.

There have been books/stories written where a fictional character was meant to represent a real person. Perhaps this story is no different. Maybe the protagonist, at one point, kills the zombie "Principle Jimm" and, IRL, the principles last name is Timm.


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## guedo79 (Feb 28, 2005)

Right.  Until we see the story all we have to go on is the kid's statement.  If that's what he did then he should have known enough to mask it better or not leave it out for people to find.

If he was dumb enough to name people and places then he needs a little time on the couch. I have heard of a number of kids that have had violent fantasies about school that did not turn around and act them out.  Of course, some of them could have used a little time on the couch too.


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## Khur (Feb 28, 2005)

Angcuru said:
			
		

> I agree with the cops' stance on it up until ZOMBIES entered the issue.



A work of fiction isn't dangerous, except to those with tyrranical mindsets, and it certainly shouldn't be a felony (as this is). This case is a joke. The persons prosecuting it are bigger ones. At most, this kid should get some counseling and community service hours--and that would still be overreacting. Hopefully, someone with some sense will step up to this poor guy's defense.

Heck, I wrote a story in high school that featured my government teacher as an evil cult leader. It was for an assignment too! I'm glad that wasn't in this age of paranoia sans anything resembling wisdom.


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## possum (Feb 28, 2005)

So, according to that law, the makers of the game Silent Hill could be locked up of "Terrorist Threats?"  

God, I love zero tolerence...


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## reveal (Feb 28, 2005)

Khur said:
			
		

> A work of fiction isn't dangerous...




There have been moments throughout history where a work of fiction has incited riots and caused governments to collapse. So while this story might not be dangerous, it's not unheard of in the larger sense.


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## Torm (Feb 28, 2005)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> > When Poole asked prosecutors whether they had any brains, the judge increased his bail to $50,000, citing the request as proof that he intended to carry out the threats in the story.
> 
> 
> 
> Sheesh.



Actually, if you think about it, this makes perfect sense- what better proof that someone intends to raise a zombie army than actually hearing them inquire about a supply of juicy, delicious brains for them?


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## Tewligan (Feb 28, 2005)

Sounds like they ARE overeacting to this. However, just to play devil's advocate, I'm going to point out that Kentucky has had maybe more than their fair share of shootings and hostage takings in their schools. I guess they're getting sensitive about potential threats.

-Tewligan
Former Kentuckian


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## Cyberzombie (Feb 28, 2005)

See?  Told you!

~eagerly awaits the appearance of the little lock symbol~


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## Khur (Feb 28, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> There have been moments throughout history where a work of fiction has incited riots and caused governments to collapse. So while this story might not be dangerous, it's not unheard of in the larger sense.



Name three such moments. I haven't heard of one, besides War of the Worlds (which was broadcast, and so is in a whole other category), so three would increase my knowldege considerably.

EDIT: Oh, and War of the Worlds neither caused riots nor governments to collapse, so I guess I don't really know of any such moments.


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## Torm (Feb 28, 2005)

Khur said:
			
		

> Heck, I wrote a story in high school that featured my government teacher as an evil cult leader. It was for an assignment too! I'm glad that wasn't in this age of paranoia sans anything resembling wisdom.



One of the funnier things that happened in one of our games was in a very strange campaign(?) of Vampire: The Masquerade that was set in the town we live in. One of the guys playing got so bored with the stupid fashion-focused way the GM was running things (this was our first AND last VTM campaign  ) that he decided _his vampire character_ would go to the local comic shop and browse comics. Of course, it was night, and the GM decided the store had just closed. So the player decided to knock on the door to get the attention of the guy who ran the store, see if maybe he would let him in. The comic guy just shook his head. So the player went across the street and tried to call. No answer. So he ripped the phone handle out of the phone, walked across, tapped on the window, and yelled, "answer your PHONE!" At this point, the shopkeeper went for the phone to call the cops, so the player broke in and killed him and took a bunch of comics.

Pretty funny, but I always felt kinda odd whenever I saw the shopkeeper after that, since we all knew him from the store, and I wasn't sure whether he would be amused or very alarmed if we told him about it. And goodness knows what police would have made of it.


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## Darrin Drader (Feb 28, 2005)

Khur said:
			
		

> Name three such moments. I haven't heard of one, besides War of the Worlds (which was broadcast, and so is in a whole other category), so three would increase my knowldege considerably.




I can point out one. Actually it was a movie, not a book, but anyway. Right about the same time The Day After hit American airwaves, a similar movie showed in the Soviet Union. It depicted the afteraffects of a nuclear war that included radioactive fallout and a horrendous nuclear winter. This changed public sentiment about nukes, which contributed to the arms control talks with Reagan back in the mid-80's.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 28, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> One of the funnier things that happened in one of our games was in a very strange campaign(?) of Vampire: The Masquerade that was set in the town we live in.




Heh--we had something similar to this in a Tripartite game in which we played ourselves (tripartite since two of us were vampires, one was a werewolf, and two were mages).  At some point we had to travel cross-country, but we seriously lacked financial resources.

And then I remembered my fantastically wealthy slum-lord uncle, whom the family never talks to any more.

In-game, we drove down to see him, and used our various mind-manipulating talents on him to cheat him out of $50,000.

It was just another moment in the downward spiral of our in-game selves' morality .  Not as bad as the first time we committed homicide, but still.

Daniel


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## reveal (Feb 28, 2005)

Khur said:
			
		

> Name three such moments. I haven't heard of one, besides War of the Worlds (which was broadcast, and so is in a whole other category), so three would increase my knowldege considerably.




Salman Rushdie - Satanic Verses 
Incites riots in Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini puts a bounty on Rushdie's head which is still active.

Harriet Beecher Stowe - Uncle Tom's Cabin
This book so polarized America that Abraham Lincoln, upon meeting Ms. Stowe in 1862, the second year of the Civil War, exclaimed "So this is the little lady who made this big war?"

Boris Pasternak - Dr Zhivago
The book could not be published in the USSR and Pasternak was forced by the government to decline the Nobel Prize. This book was used by the US to demonstrate the "evils" of the USSR and further propogate its stance during the Cold War.

Maybe I was a little exubarent in saying that fictional stories have overthrown governments, but the power of pen is great and many works of fiction have helped to change things. It's not always something to which you can say "it's just a story."


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## Torm (Feb 28, 2005)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> It was just another moment in the downward spiral of our in-game selves' morality .  Not as bad as the first time we committed homicide, but still.



This was another reason that V:TM wasn't working for us - I'm Torm the True, and I'm not sure I could play a BAD guy even if I wanted to. My vampire was in life a wealthy, already eccentric muti-millionaire who was brought over for the resources he could bring to Clan Ventrue. Just before his sire was destroyed (by werewolves, I believe) and thus unable to explain anything to my character or tell other members of the Clan that he was successful. So, suddenly possessed of incredible powers and an inability to go outside during the day, my guy, of course, sets about becoming ... dum dum dum ... _Batman_! 

The other vampires were, needless to say, not amused.


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## Pielorinho (Feb 28, 2005)

I, not being a vampire, am. 

Daniel


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## Torm (Feb 28, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Maybe I was a little exubarent in saying that fictional stories have overthrown governments, but the power of pen is great and many works of fiction have helped to change things.



No, I'd say you were still right - Its just that the _most effective_ fictions (inferiority of other races/religions/etc, manifest or divine destinies, stuff like that) that caused riots or overthrew gov'ts are the ones that were sold as *truth*, rather than as novels or movies.


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## Ralts Bloodthorne (Mar 1, 2005)

Many fiction writers, when doing thier first stumbling steps, have a tendency to use real life places and people. They know that the story won't ever see the light of day, and it's good practice. Even some creative writing courses in HS and colleges suggest using this technique to sharpen skills and to get a feel for describing a location that you can then go and personally see if your description matches.

While the kid may not have good gramm*a*r in his speech, that means nothing toward his writing skills. I slur my words, use sland, and sound like a hick.

That's what editors get paid for.

Acting as if this is a definative death threat is akin to arresting Tom Clancy for planning terrorist activities due to his many well researched books that have terrorism in them.

Way to go, Justice League! I'm sure that there are a few kids silently praying to some god, any god, please, maybe, just a little help, when that algebra pop quiz rears it's head. They've got to be a danger too, right up with that vegan who has refused to eat the meat in the school, it's vile rebellion and a threat to the life of Sumerians everywhere!

Jerks.


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## Khur (Mar 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I can point out one. Actually, it was a movie, not a book, but anyway. Right about the same time The Day After hit American airwaves, a similar movie showed in the Soviet Union. It depicted the aftereffects of a nuclear war that included radioactive fallout and a horrendous nuclear winter. This changed public sentiment about nukes, which contributed to the arms control talks with Reagan back in the mid-80s.



Well, that's cool. I remember being scared by that movie as a kid. But we weren't talking about fiction having a general or good societal effect. We're talking about fiction having a decidedly negative societal effect (riots and regime change). Plenty of fiction has a societal effect, but it’s rare that fiction has widespread negative effects.



			
				reveal said:
			
		

> Maybe I was a little exuberant in saying that fictional stories have overthrown governments, but the power of pen is great and many works of fiction have helped to change things. It's not always something to which you can say "it's just a story."



It doesn't matter that you were exuberant. What you've pointed out is exceptionally valuable insight into this case, actually. And I certainly agree that fiction can be powerful. 

Three interesting points though: 1) None of the stories you mention have zombies in them (or do they?).  2) None of the stories were unpublished and written by a teenager (or is he an adult?).  3) Two of the stories you mention incited reactions from what can only be labeled extremists and/or tyrannical regimes (or are they?).  

At the very least, #3 seems to support my view of the whole thing.

Heck, there's a book out now containing two characters who seriously discuss the pros and cons of assasinating an existing world leader. One character plans to actually do the killing, while the other tries to talk the firts guy out of doing it. That author named names, real places, and plausible plans. _He_ isn't in jail. Nor should he be.

The point is: It's highly questionable for authors to be punished as if they did or planned to do the things they write. It becomes doubly questionable when the work is unpublished, and triply so if the work doesn't "name names," so to speak. And the fact that this work of fiction was not only unpublished, but also private makes the case even worse.

This whole thing treads on dangerous ground, if you ask me ... which you didn't.  



			
				Torm said:
			
		

> No, I'd say you were still right - Its just that the _most effective_ fictions (inferiority of other races/religions/etc, manifest or divine destinies, stuff like that) that caused riots or overthrew gov'ts are the ones that were sold as *truth*, rather than as novels or movies.



Oh yeah. Now we're cookin' with real butter.


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

If his punishment was simply based upon his story, as the article would have you believe, then the cops are definitely abusing their power. But what if this kid has a history of behavior like this? What if he has a history of violence or of being a "problem kid?"


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## Jesus_marley (Mar 1, 2005)

The problem with this news story is that it is merely a soundbite. It doesn't relate nearly enough information so that we are left speculating on the persons past exploits (or lack thereof) or whether the State is acting in an (un)justified manner. While there is certainly enough info to elicit a reaction from the reader, there is not enough to make an informed opinion concerning what is going on. The end result is that this story serves to solidify already formed opinions regarding A) the (perceived) danger of unrestrained youths, and B) the powers of the State.

My apologies if this crosses to "too political" boundary.


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## Del (Mar 1, 2005)

I think Stephen King and Wes Craven should take these menacing law-enforcement hicks out back to the woodshed and give them a good spanking in the name of Freedom of Speech.

Aww. My bad, the hicks would like that.


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## Greylock (Mar 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Salman Rushdie - Satanic Verses
> Incites riots in Iran and Ayatollah Khomeini puts a bounty on Rushdie's head which is still active.




Well, the bounty is no longer active, and I would hardly claim that the book caused the riots. Most folks demonstrating  against it never read it, and were doing as they were told. They could have been protesting a Betty Crocker cookbook for all they knew.

Damn fine book, though. Rushdie's that is.

HTH


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## Desdichado (Mar 1, 2005)

Khur said:
			
		

> A work of fiction isn't dangerous



You've obviously never read _The King in Yellow_.  <Painfull shiver>


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## Desdichado (Mar 1, 2005)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> I noticed that too, but that's not going to keep me from pointing out that it's spelled gramm*a*r.



D'oh!  That word always gets me; I always intend to spell grammar and then second-guess myself and change it to grammer.


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## reveal (Mar 1, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> Well, the bounty is no longer active, and I would hardly claim that the book caused the riots. Most folks demonstrating  against it never read it, and were doing as they were told. They could have been protesting a Betty Crocker cookbook for all they knew.
> 
> Damn fine book, though. Rushdie's that is.
> 
> HTH




In early 2005, Khomeini's fatwa against Rushdie was reaffirmed by Iran's spiritual leader, Ayatollah Ali Khamenei, in a message to Muslim pilgrims making the annual pilgrimage to Mecca. In response to requests to withdraw the fatwa, Iran has stated that only the person who issued it may withdraw it; Khomeini, however, died in 1989.


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## Psychic Warrior (Mar 1, 2005)

I find this a sad commentary on the state of free speech and freedom of expression in the USA.  I hope this case is (justly) tossed out of court once a judge with brains sees it.


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 1, 2005)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> -Tewligan
> Former Kentuckian



Are you named after a tavern, by any chance?


Jeff, Kentuckian from birth through '98


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## John Q. Mayhem (Mar 1, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> You've obviously never read _The King in Yellow_.  <Painfull shiver>





Curse my metal body, I wasn't fast enough!



			
				reveal said:
			
		

> But what if this kid has a history of behavior like this? What if he has a history of violence or of being a "problem kid?"




Good point, and one of the reasons it's a bad idea to make judgments based on soundbites.


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## Tewligan (Mar 1, 2005)

Heh - yep! I saw many a band of questionable skill at good ol' Tewligan's while attending UofL.


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## Hammerhead (Mar 1, 2005)

What's the King in Yellow? I played in a game where some psychos were trying to re-enact it, but I never found out what it was.


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 2, 2005)

Whisperfoot said:
			
		

> I can point out one. Actually it was a movie, not a book, but anyway. Right about the same time The Day After hit American airwaves, a similar movie showed in the Soviet Union. It depicted the afteraffects of a nuclear war that included radioactive fallout and a horrendous nuclear winter. This changed public sentiment about nukes, which contributed to the arms control talks with Reagan back in the mid-80's.




"The Day After" scared the   out of me! At that time, ANYTHING regarding nukes scared the   out of me.


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 2, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> This was another reason that V:TM wasn't working for us - I'm Torm the True, and I'm not sure I could play a BAD guy even if I wanted to. My vampire was in life a wealthy, already eccentric muti-millionaire who was brought over for the resources he could bring to Clan Ventrue. Just before his sire was destroyed (by werewolves, I believe) and thus unable to explain anything to my character or tell other members of the Clan that he was successful. So, suddenly possessed of incredible powers and an inability to go outside during the day, my guy, of course, sets about becoming ... dum dum dum ... _Batman_!
> 
> The other vampires were, needless to say, not amused.




Despite my liking of various villians in movies and such, I don't think I could play a bad guy either...... I'm usually around the NG in alignment... as it's a "happy medium" between chaotic and lawful...  I seem to do better with NG-aligned characters, paladins being a bit of a stretch for me.

Vampiric Batman:   That's funny!


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## Desdichado (Mar 2, 2005)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> What's the King in Yellow? I played in a game where some psychos were trying to re-enact it, but I never found out what it was.



It's a novel by R. W. Chambers, which -- although seperate from -- is often considered a part of the Cthulhu mythos.  In that novel, there is a play called "The King in Yellow" which, if you read (or worse, watch) you lose bookoos of sanity, and it summons Hastur from Carcosa, or something similarly nasty (can't remember the exact specifics; but the point is, it's certainly a dangerous piece of fiction!  Err, the fictional "King in Yellow" is dangerous to the characters in the real King in Yellow, that is.


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 2, 2005)

It may seem harsh to crack down on the kid for his story, but here locally, there was a rash of "hit lists" being sent to various schools with names of principals, teachers and students on them. The school system and the police don't know if they were actually serious or not but they took them seriously. There were several kids arrested and charged for sending these "hit lists". Sure, the later ones were most likely copycats cashing in on the "real ones" but since the officials can't be sure if it's a joke, they take the more extreme path to err on the side of safety for all children. Frankly, I don't blame them, especially after Columbine and 9/11.... 

I remember a time when I was in school where they didn't say much if you had pocketknives in your possession but they cracked down on the kids who carried hunting rifles to hunt either before or after school from bringing those onto campus and having them in the gun rack in their pickup trucks. Ahhh... the simpler times.....  Makes me glad I'm out of school.....


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## Jesus_marley (Mar 2, 2005)

There is a world of difference between a "hit list" containing names of school officials and students, and a story about zombies.


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## Xath (Mar 2, 2005)

Here's some more info, including the article published in the Kentucky papers.

http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=1491


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## Xath (Mar 2, 2005)

This part makes it a bit more scary to me though...It was posted on a blog of someone who goes to this kid's school (if it can be believed)



> That’s my school. Consider this if you’re wondering about the boy’s creditbility: his initial story was that it was a short story for vocational school (yeah, the place where you learn carpentry and welding, not creative writing). Then it switched to an English assignment. Funny thing is, he doesn’t have an English class this semester. He’s also been involved in a number of fights and assaults on campus. His sister is even worried because she read what he wrote and she says it’s no zombie story. He had the sites of the cameras on campus mapped out and had timed out how quickly the police could arrive on campus. Heretofore, his grandparents have done everything they could to keep him out of jail.


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## reveal (Mar 2, 2005)

Thanks for the info. I was hoping that this kid had a history and that the cops weren't just being doofuses.


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 2, 2005)

Jesus_marley said:
			
		

> There is a world of difference between a "hit list" containing names of school officials and students, and a story about zombies.




The only similarity is how serious the schools are taking things they perceive as being dangerous. This kid's zombie story make be a load of hokey but they don't know that..... or at least the blurb isn't saying much... It's just like those hit lists I mentioned. The first may have been serious, but I betcha the rest were copycats.


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## Captain Howdy (Mar 3, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> This part makes it a bit more scary to me though...It was posted on a blog of someone who goes to this kid's school (if it can be believed)




Can you provide a link? 

(BTW, sorry I started the other thread on the same subject, didn't check to see if it was already posted.   )


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## Thornir Alekeg (Mar 4, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> I find this a sad commentary on the state of free speech and freedom of expression in the USA.  I hope this case is (justly) tossed out of court once a judge with brains sees it.




Mmmm...BRAINS!!!


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## Wormwood (Mar 4, 2005)

Jesus_marley said:
			
		

> There is a world of difference between a "hit list" containing names of school officials and students, and a story about zombies.



Not in the brave new world of "zero tolerance".


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## Stone Angel (Mar 4, 2005)

Good lord...I would love to hear Lewis Black rave about this one. 


for those of you who don't know Black is a topical comic that I find hillarious.


Seriously this is BS. What if he had written that the school had saved the world from hunger, violence, and general ill will. Maybe they would have nominated him for a peace prize. 


The Seraph of Earth and Stone


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## Villano (Mar 4, 2005)

Captain Howdy said:
			
		

> Can you provide a link?
> 
> (BTW, sorry I started the other thread on the same subject, didn't check to see if it was already posted.   )




I did a little search and found the link:  http://jpeacock.net/mt/mt-comments.cgi?entry_id=347

You'll have to look through it to find the comment.  Most of the posts are the typical "Everyone's paranoid" and "America is a terrible place to live."  However, there are a few good points mixed amongst them.

Here's one from the local newspaper.  As you can see, it's quite different from the "poor boy arrest for zombie story" article:




> By TIM WELDON/Sun Staff Writer
> 
> Winchester police have arrested a George Rogers Clark High School junior whom they allege was attempting to organize an armed takeover of the school.
> 
> ...





Another poster  brought up some good points:



> And to Dementia, consider this: The grandparents found his journal threatening. The cops found his journal threatening. The school administration found his journal threatening. The cops investigated for four days before they arrested him. The judge found the evidence against him so convincing that he upped the bail. The kid himself is quoted in an article that he only wrote a short story about zombies invading a school. The newspaper does not confirm that the journal contains a short story. No teacher confirms that there was any such assignment. In fact, no one confirms that there was really a short story, all we have is the word of a kid desparate to get out of jail. WHo are the real zombies?




And:



> You know, I find it very amusing that everyone is all up in arms because some high school kid got arrested for something, and claimed to be innocent.
> 
> From my experience, EVERYONE that gets arrested claims they're innocent. Are we going to rally to their aid as well?


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## Raloc (Mar 4, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> (snip) This kid's zombie story make be a load of hokey but they don't know that.....




The threat of the undead in our post-modern society is *VERY REAL*. Even now, the undead could be infesting YOUR child's school. Watch those janitors cafefully ladies and gentlemen, they're out there. 

I'm fairly sure it's safe to assume that they know that a story about ZOMBIES is *ahem* NOT REAL. Honestly, people are crossing over into the realm of stupidity when they start prosecuting kids over stories about fictional creatures. Arrest every fiction writer in the world now, because they're all offenders too (myself included)!

Edit:  Though, perhaps he didn't even write a story, but my opinion that arresting a kid over a story involving zombies would be ridiculous.


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## Greatwyrm (Mar 4, 2005)

It's all fun and games until someone gets their brain eaten.


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## Stone Angel (Mar 6, 2005)

I think a lot of peoples point was that given the article the case seemed very very thin, arrested over a story, that was allegedly for an english class.

Given that I think it's BS. But I do not know what else they found and I will not attest to his innocence.

Merely pointing out that the article makes it sound ludacris for that.


The Seraph of Earth and Stone


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## Mark (Mar 6, 2005)

Stone Angel said:
			
		

> I think a lot of peoples point was that given the article the case seemed very very thin, arrested over a story, that was allegedly for an english class.
> 
> Given that I think it's BS.




I think the point from my perspective if that articles rarely give the full story.


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## mojo1701 (Mar 6, 2005)

Stone Angel said:
			
		

> I will not attest to his innocence.




Perhaps, but remember, in this crazy corner of the word, one is "Innocent until proven guilty."


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## Krieg (Mar 7, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Perhaps, but remember, in this crazy corner of the word, one is "Innocent until proven guilty."




That only applies to the legal standing of an individual, it has no bearing on whether or not they committed the crime.


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 7, 2005)

Stone Angel said:
			
		

> I think a lot of peoples point was that given the article the case seemed very very thin, arrested over a story, that was allegedly for an english class.
> 
> Given that I think it's BS. But I do not know what else they found and I will not attest to his innocence.
> 
> ...




This guy at work I mentioned the story to thought the whole thing was stupid. I think so as well..... I mean, c'mon...... _ZOMBIES_?!?!?!   I'd be more worried if someone started saying stuff about the KKK.....


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## Darth K'Trava (Mar 7, 2005)

Mark said:
			
		

> I think the point from my perspective if that articles rarely give the full story.




Especially SHORT articles that aren't meant more than "blurbs"..... which is what this was.


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## Greatwyrm (Mar 7, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Perhaps, but remember, in this crazy corner of the word, one is "Innocent until proven guilty."




Which I'm sure was a great comfort to Richard Jewell, the guy who everyone was certain bombed the Olympics in Atlanta.  Of course, he had nothing to do with it, but that didn't stop the press from plastering his picture across every TV in the world.


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## mojo1701 (Mar 7, 2005)

Greatwyrm said:
			
		

> Which I'm sure was a great comfort to Richard Jewell, the guy who everyone was certain bombed the Olympics in Atlanta.  Of course, he had nothing to do with it, but that didn't stop the press from plastering his picture across every TV in the world.




Sorry, I should've said, "Canada."


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## Thornir Alekeg (Mar 7, 2005)

I'm sure in the end the truth is somewhere in the middle.  They raised bail from $1000 to $5000 on request from the prosecutors, but that is not a very good indication of anything.  Often that is a judge not wanting to be seen as "lenient" on something as emotionally charged as a perceived threat to the students of this school while the police complete their investigation.


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## Villano (Mar 12, 2005)

There's an update on the "Zombie Teen" story.  The details of his writings have been released and, as I suspected, there isn't a single zombie in them.   What we've got is a killing spree/suicide plan and correspondence with someone who told him he could get them guns.



> Details of student's writings revealed
> 
> By Peter Mathews
> 
> ...


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## Rel (Mar 12, 2005)

This should probably teach us something about jumping to conclusions or the press's responsibility to try and get more facts before reporting on something like this.  Or both.

Either way I'm honest enough to admit that I bashed the cops over this and I was out of line given what has come to light.  Mea culpa.


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## Raven Crowking (Mar 12, 2005)

Just read the above.


RC


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## reveal (Mar 12, 2005)

What's really sad is all the people who called them "idiots" and "incestuous hillbillies" won't even bother to say "Oops. We screwed up. Sorry. It seems that you're really doing your job."


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## Jeff Wilder (Mar 12, 2005)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> Heh - yep! I saw many a band of questionable skill at good ol' Tewligan's while attending UofL.



Cool.  I've been in Tewligan's (and Snagilwet) more times than I can count.  Back in high school, my girlfriend was a fan of Squirrel Bait and Suicidal Tendencies, both of which played the Tavern more than once.  (It's testament to how horny I was in high school that I went with her to see those crappy, crappy bands.)

Before moving to San Francisco, I split my life between Louisville and Lexington.  Most of my life after grade school but before college I spent living at various places in the Highlands.  I worked as a bouncer at Phoenix Hill Tavern.  Our D&D group used to play every Saturday at the Highlands Public Library, down on Cherokee, which is, what, three blocks from Tewligan's?  (We eventually got asked to leave because we were making too much noise.  The gaming was fine, but during lunch breaks we played "garbage-can basketball."  We weren't too bright.)


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## JIMBOTHEBLACK (Mar 30, 2005)

Why is this such a debate? this kid didn't do anything more than write a work of fiction, see ther'es this thing called the freedom of SPEECH! but how conviniently it,s forgotten when the order of things is being threatened, I mean if people are allowed to think all kinds of scary and dangerous things might happen, like choosing ones own religion instead of believing what one is told, or(shudder to think) come up with new ideas. I know, let's just gather round and sing psalms while we burn the kid on a steak.


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## Rel (Mar 30, 2005)

JIMBOTHEBLACK said:
			
		

> Why is this such a debate? this kid didn't do anything more than write a work of fiction, see ther'es this thing called the freedom of SPEECH! but how conviniently it,s forgotten when the order of things is being threatened, I mean if people are allowed to think all kinds of scary and dangerous things might happen, like choosing ones own religion instead of believing what one is told, or(shudder to think) come up with new ideas. I know, let's just gather round and sing psalms while we burn the kid on a steak.




I don't entirely disagree with you but minor children do not have all the same rights as adults in our society and they never have.

Also, we don't tend to burn people on a steak unless they're made of A-1 sauce.


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## reveal (Mar 30, 2005)

JIMBOTHEBLACK said:
			
		

> Why is this such a debate? this kid didn't do anything more than write a work of fiction, see ther'es this thing called the freedom of SPEECH! but how conviniently it,s forgotten when the order of things is being threatened, I mean if people are allowed to think all kinds of scary and dangerous things might happen, like choosing ones own religion instead of believing what one is told, or(shudder to think) come up with new ideas. I know, let's just gather round and sing psalms while we burn the kid on a steak.




You might want to actually read the entire thread before ranting like this. It's not as cut and dry as you make it seem.

mmmmm.... steak....


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## caudor (Mar 30, 2005)

Del said:
			
		

> I think Stephen King and Wes Craven should take these menacing law-enforcement hicks out back to the woodshed and give them a good spanking in the name of Freedom of Speech.
> 
> Aww. My bad, the hicks would like that.




Things are sure different now than they were back in 1974---close to when 'Carrie' came out.


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## player 2 (Mar 31, 2005)

As soon as I read the article that a student was arrested for writting a "zombie story", I knew that there was more to it, and I am glad that the whole story came out.  As a teacher, all I can say is thank you to the police and grandparents for making a hard decision and doing what was right.  As much as some of you may not like it, we need to take these "threats" seriously.  Am I saying that all students who write zombie stories should be arrested, NO!  However, you can tell which student is a talented writer and which one is making threats.  I had students write "horror" and "fantasy" stories and I did not have a thing to worry about.  There were students that I would have been VERY concerned about if they had written violent stories.  I could get on my soapbox and really preach, but this is not the time or the place.  I will end with saying that I am thankfull this was not about zombies but about school safety.  

My thoughts and prayers are with the families and students of Red Lake, MN


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## Khur (Apr 1, 2005)

Well, I'm glad to see that the press was originally misleading on this one. I'm sorry I reacted to bad information. I will point out that this new development doesn't exactly look cut-n-dry either, though. In other words, this is far from "the whole story." But I'll keep my trap shut until more details come out, as I should have done in the beginning instead of trusting the first stories.  :\ 

I stand by my positions on fiction and its relationship to punishable criminal behavior.


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## JIMBOTHEBLACK (Apr 5, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> Also, we don't tend to burn people on a steak unless they're made of A-1 sauce.



    MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM!!!! A-1 GOOD!!


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## JIMBOTHEBLACK (Apr 5, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> You might want to actually read the entire thread before ranting like this. It's not as cut and dry as you make it seem.
> 
> mmmmm.... steak....



           You're right, I was in a very bad mood the day I wrote it. I just saw the thread and lost it. And upon reflecting I'm a little bit embarrased about it


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