# The SRD says you only get to attack with Chill Touch in the round you cast it!



## Dracuwulf (Feb 8, 2004)

Chill touch is duration instantaneous; in the description it says "you can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level"

I asked about this before and I was told that the caster can attack once when he casts it, then make regular melee touch attacks each round thereafter... 

Yet, the SRD says:

Touch: You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

Under duration it says this:
Touch Spells and Holding the Charge: In most cases, if you don’t discharge a touch spell on the round you cast it, you can hold the charge (postpone the discharge of the spell) indefinitely. You can make touch attacks round after round. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates.
Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell. You can’t hold the charge of such a spell; you must touch all targets of the spell in the same round that you finish casting the spell.

The way I read it, you can only chill touch targets the same round you cast.  That would explain the instantaneous duration too.  I assume that you can touch as many targets as you can reach (no need to take attack or full attack actions, otherwise no 1st level caster could use this spell).  Sound logical?


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## Ottergame (Feb 8, 2004)

Dracuwulf said:
			
		

> Chill touch is duration instantaneous; in the description it says "you can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level"
> 
> I asked about this before and I was told that the caster can attack once when he casts it, then make regular melee touch attacks each round thereafter...
> 
> ...





That's right, you touch as many targets as you cast the spell as you can, up to 1 per level.  After that, the spell goes away.  That's up to 8 for someone who is medium sized.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 8, 2004)

Huh.  That's new in 3.5 - there never used to be an "all in one round" qualification.  And it used to be a limit of 6 willing creatures in one round as a full round action.

But notice that "as many as you can reach" is limited to _willing_ targets.

Making a touch attack against an unwilling creature is still limited to one in the round you cast, or multiple on a full attack action in subsequent rounds.

But as he notes, Chill Touch as written doesn't allow holding the charge.

I'd be inclined to say "They screwed up when they did the revision", and let Chill Touch work like it did in 3E, when there was no "all in one round" rule for multiple touch spells.

I can only guess they introduced that rule because, as written in 3E, you could affect hundreds of people with Water Breathing over the course of an hour.  Thousands.  But _if[/i that was the reason, it would have made more sesne to limit Water Breathing, rather than messing with the whole touch spell system.

-Hyp._


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## Camarath (Feb 8, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Making a touch attack against an unwilling creature is still limited to one in the round you cast, or multiple on a full attack action in subsequent rounds.



I think that the rule that "Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell." and the Chill Touch's stated allowance that "You can use this melee touch attack up to one time per level." mean that you can use the spell's melee touch attack up to one time per level as part of the spell.

In other words I do not believe that this provision  "You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell." limits this provision "Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets as part of the spell.". I think the first provision is meant to clarify what to do if a spell allows one to touch an unspecified number of probably willing creatures such as with the Water Breathing spell. I read the second provision to mean that if a spell states that one can touch a certain number of targets then one may do so as part of the spell.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 8, 2004)

Camarath said:
			
		

> I think the first provision is meant to clarify what to do if a spell allows one to touch an unspecified number of probably willing creatures such as with the Water Breathing spell. I read the second provision to mean that if a spell states that one can touch a certain number of targets then one may do so as part of the spell.




Well, it doesn't seem at all ambiguous in the case of, say, Water Walk - one target/level, but if you're twentieth level and can only reach eight targets, you're limited to that many.

On the other hand, the casting time of Water Walk is a standard action, which leaves a move action... perhaps you can touch anyone you can reach while moving your speed?

Now, Chill Touch is a slightly different case - it _is_ a touch spell that permits multiple targets, but only as a side effect of being a touch spell that permits multiple _touches_.  In theory, you could use all twenty touches on the same target.  And there's no way I'd allow all that as a standard action 

I think there's an implicit exception in Chill Touch, based on the fact that the wording of the rules for touch spells has changed, but the wording of the spell hasn't, in the revision - it looks like an overlooked interaction to me.

As far as I'm concerned, casting the spell allows a single touch as part of the casting action; any more are made as separate attack or full attack actions in subsequent rounds.

-Hyp.


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## Camarath (Feb 8, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> As far as I'm concerned, casting the spell allows a single touch as part of the casting action; any more are made as separate attack or full attack actions in subsequent rounds.



I am not clear on why you are limiting the number of touch attacks one may make as a part of casting a spell because wasn't that limit was removed in 3.5?


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 8, 2004)

Camarath said:
			
		

> I am not clear on why you are limiting the number of touch attacks one may make as a part of casting a spell because wasn't that limit was removed in 3.5?




No... hmm.  Hang on, we've got a contradiction here.

From the Combat section:

_*Touch Spells in Combat:* Many spells have a range of touch. To use these spells, you cast the spell and then touch the subject, either in the same round or any time later. In the same round that you cast the spell, you may also touch (or attempt to touch) the target. You may take your move before casting the spell, after touching the target, or between casting the spell and touching the target. You can automatically touch one friend or use the spell on yourself, but to touch an opponent, you must succeed on an attack roll.

*Touch Attacks:* Touching an opponent with a touch spell is considered to be an armed attack and therefore does not provoke attacks of opportunity. However, the act of casting a spell does provoke an attack of opportunity. Touch attacks come in two types: melee touch attacks and ranged touch attacks. You can score critical hits with either type of attack. Your opponent’s AC against a touch attack does not include any armor bonus, shield bonus, or natural armor bonus. His size modifier, Dexterity modifier, and deflection bonus (if any) all apply normally.

*Holding the Charge:* If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates. Alternatively, you may make a normal unarmed attack (or an attack with a natural weapon) while holding a charge. In this case, you aren’t considered armed and you provoke attacks of opportunity as normal for the attack. (If your unarmed attack or natural weapon attack doesn’t provoke attacks of opportunity, neither does this attack.) If the attack hits, you deal normal damage for your unarmed attack or natural weapon and the spell discharges. If the attack misses, you are still holding the charge._

From the Magic Overview section:

_*Touch:* You must touch a creature or object to affect it. A touch spell that deals damage can score a critical hit just as a weapon can. A touch spell threatens a critical hit on a natural roll of 20 and deals double damage on a successful critical hit. Some touch spells allow you to touch multiple targets. You can touch as many willing targets as you can reach as part of the casting, but all targets of the spell must be touched in the same round that you finish casting the spell._

So the Combat section says you can touch _one_ friend as part of the casting action, and if you hold the charge, you can touch up to six friends as a full round action in subsequent rounds.

The Magic section says you can touch as many friends as you can reach as part of the casting action, and _can't_ hold the charge on a multiple-target touch spell.

Go Revision!

-Hyp.


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## Camarath (Feb 8, 2004)

There does appear to be a contradiction. This part of the text contradicts the other sections regarding touch attacks and spells and appears to me to be a hold over from 3.0. The rest of the section is new to 3.5.

"Holding the Charge: If you don’t discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell, you can hold the discharge of the spell (hold the charge) indefinitely. You can continue to make touch attacks round after round. You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action. If you touch anything or anyone while holding a charge, even unintentionally, the spell discharges. If you cast another spell, the touch spell dissipates." 

Also there does not seem to be a rule which limits how many touch attacks one may make against non-friends as a part of casting a spell.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 8, 2004)

Camarath said:
			
		

> Also there does not seem to be a rule which limits how many touch attacks one may make against non-friends as a part of casting a spell.




Well, it constantly refers to "the subject" or "an opponent".

-Hyp.


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## Camarath (Feb 8, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Well, it constantly refers to "the subject" or "an opponent".



It does but the only section that would limit the number of touch attacks in an action talks about "friends" (You can touch one friend as a standard action or up to six friends as a full-round action.). This would also only apply if you didn’t "discharge the spell in the round when you cast the spell". 

But as I said I see nothing that would pervent someone from making all of the touch attacks allowed by a spell as part of casting the spell just as one may make as many ranged touch attacks as are allowed by a spell as part of casting the spell. Whether or not this was intended or is balanced I do not know but it is how I think the rules work.


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