# DDXP 2010 News and Updates



## catsclaw227 (Jan 28, 2010)

I know that one of the first seminars has started, so I figured we should have a single thread with any updates that are blogged, tweeted, etc.

I can't track this thoroughly myself (I am at work), but I assume some of you can help keep this thread going with regular updates!

Let the news start flowing!


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## catsclaw227 (Jan 28, 2010)

WOTC_Trevor mentioned the name of the new Brand Manager:

"Kirin Chase as well - Brand Manager for D&D."

Finally this mystery has been solved!


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

The first two dozen tweets from Trevor_WotC, in chronological order (earliest to later):

24. Mike Mearls and Rich Baker. Kirin Chase as well - Brand Manager for D&D. Bart Carol will be posting up the podcast later. 

23. Mike is talking about Underdark and Dragonborn book, touching on D&D Insider articles as well - nothing new yet. 

22. Rich: Goal for D&D Insider is that every character can find something useful every month. 

21. Rich: Martial power 2 in February - New Fighter build, 2 new ranger builds, new rogue build, and 2 new warlord builds 

20. Rich: New weapon style feat system which we think is going to be a lot of fun 

19. Rich: Of course new paragon paths and epic destinies. A lot of fun, had a lot of fun working on it. 

18. Everybody is clapping for Rob Schwalb, introduced by Rich - did some work on MP 2 

17. Rich: Martial practices is a new mechanic for doing heroic things, also in MP 2 

16. Rich: New 3 Dragon Ante. Expansion to the original and stand alone game 

15. Mike Mearls: PH3 and psionics! 

14. Mearls: New psionic power source classes: Monk - uses the power source but does not use power points 

13. Battlemind - Psion - , Monk - Ardent 

12. Mearls: We have tried in this book to provide a lot of options to those who don't plan on running psionic characters 

11. Mearls: Hybrid character class system is one of these, more skill powers, a few non psionic classes 

10. Mearls - Hammerfast coming in March. Return to the Nentir veil, more details on the town of Hammerfast. Poster map of the town 

9. Mearls - I wanted to put twists, hooks with every character/npc interaction. Something unique to spark an interesting interaction 

8. Mearls - New set of Dungeon Tiles "Harrowing Halls" 3D Tiles included 

7. Mearlsl - Plane Above in April/May as well as Player's strategy guide 

6. Player's Strat guide is a fun engaging read, several different authors - celebrities in the D&D field - tips, tricks, and stories 

5. In May, Dungeon Magazine Annual - best articles of past Dungeon releases. 

4. Also The Slaying Stone, soft cover adventure for low level characters. Double sided poster map. 

3. Monster Manual 3 hits in June! (People oooohing at the image of the orcus "miniature" ) 

2. We got feedback that the MMs didn't have enough flavor, so we're changing the format. We'll be putting a bit more story/hooks/descriptions.. 

1. for monsters to give it more of a story.


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

More:

Mearls - also in June, the Orcus "miniature" !

Emphasize limited edition for Orcus, significantly rarer than any of the miniatures we've done before 

Rich : "he's the size of a small car" 

Tiefling book in June similar to the Dragonborn book. Also a tile set, desert themed, will work well for Dark Sun "Deserts of Athas" 

Demonomicon in July! Enough information to give demon a good grounding in the D&D world. #ddxp 

RT @criticalhits: Demonicon in July, details Demon Lords, history of Abyss "make it adventurable". Encounter tables 

Also in July - Tomb of Horrors super adventure, hardcove, 10th to 22nd level 

Orcs of Stonefang Pass another low level soft cover adventure 

The first of the essentials titles hits in July. Dungeon Tiles Master set - a baseline standard dungeon tile set that remains in print 

RT @criticalhits: July- Vor Rukoth. Like Hammerfast, more Paragon-focused. Ruins of Tiefling city, east of Nentir Vale. Extraplanar bad guys 

Having an essential tile line will make it easier to give unique tiles in the expansions 

Psionic Power in august - one new build for each psionic class. 

August lords of madness set, huge set, no visual miniature anymore, 6 minis - and introducing very rares of different sizes


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Dark Sun:

Return of the Dark Sun campaign setting #ddxp Hardbound campaign setting guide for creating characters and running a game in Athas 

Dark Sun creature catalog is 144 page monster book chalk full of athasian monster - dune freaks, dune reapers , etc. #ddxp 

We decided to split things up a little differently for this campaign. Player generated stuff in DS setting book, creature catalog also.. 

includes hazards, npcs, and other things useful to DMs. We thought long and hard about when and where we want to return to athas... 

..We decided to return to the weeks Right after Tyr has been deposed. Tyr is a free city that is more or less in Chaos. Our chance to go... 

back to the origin story of athas and really give people the chance to play with the beginnings of Dark Sun #ddxp


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

(BTW, these are now tweets from Wizards_DnD)

More in August - Marauders of the Dune see, short 32 page adventure. Includes a poster map, set in an area of the sandy wastes near Tyr 

New dice in August as well 

Lots of oohs and ahhs for the Ravenloft Board game

Mearls: The basic idea for castle ravenloft - if you are hanging out with friends, but you don't want to launch into a 4 hour d&d session... 

then this is for you. Looked at games like space hulk and pandemic 

Cooperative game, the players are constantly on the edge of defeat - really tense, surrounded by undead, get through the crypts and get to.. your goal 

Castle Ravenloft game should last about an hour. Different goals per game, such as retrieve the holy symbol of ravenloft, or defeat Strahd 

comes with 42 minis including characters and monsters. Miniatures are not painted. Sheets of tiles for a modular board game experience 

cards for monsters/traps/events that are flipped over as you go through the crypts/castle 

A very fast paced, very hectic, rising sense of horror from this board game. Minis are reprints of existing D&D miniatures. #ddxp 

"A nice big heavy box - you're getting a lot in there" #ddxp


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

September - More Essentials. A new basic set - you should recognize "The Red Box" 

the red box includes a solo play experience to guide a person through their first play experience and helps define/create your character 

"Red box and the essentials line is creating a landing strip for new players" 

Rules compendium takes all the current rules and puts them in one book 

we're not rewriting the rules, 19.95 soft cover book, includes errata 

Criticalhits tweeted: Errata will be incorporated into Rules Compendium. $20, 6x9 size. Red box has tokens an maps. "crayon later this year." also $20 

Player Essentials in September - Continues on from The Red Box. Covers classic character classes, fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, ranger 

This does not replace what was in the PH release - it will be new builds 

We tried to create an easier stepping stone for new people, and make it a bit easier to understand the character classes and creation


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## Nai_Calus (Jan 28, 2010)

The RC/PE/DMK/RB stuff sounds awesome.


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## Phaezen (Jan 28, 2010)

Gamma World just confirmed...


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Feat chapter in Player Essentials is almost completely new 

Player Essentials is also 19.95, as is the rules compendium and red box 

Dungeon Masters Kit is the essentials part for DMs 

The DM analog fo the Player Essientials - here's the things you need to start running a game as a DM. 

Kirin on DM Kit - This is a big box with a whooooole bunch of stuff. Includes the Rules compendium, monster tokens, 2 adventures... 

2 poster maps. 40-45 dollars. Rich - the adventure is pretty good, I wrote it 
less than 20 seconds ago from TweetDeck 

Perfect product if you feel that you're a player, but you want to occassionaly DM 

Another Master Set tiles - City set


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

October - Gamma World! Yes, it's true.

The rule book inside is 160 pages. Includes everything you need. Strongly rooted in the 4E dnd mechanics. Character creation - how to GM 

criticalhits tweeted: Oct: Gamma World. Uses D&D rules. Complete game experience in box. 160 rulebook included. Rooted in d&d. Chargen, how to gm, monsters 

[Box? It's a Gamma World box set?]

30 different monsters including the batters and the yarns. Also includes a 10 encounter adventure - 2 levels worth of xp 

We're big fans of Gamma world and excited to bring it back. The assumption for Gamma world is that your character is probably going to be a 

mutant... might be part cockroch, part yeti - or a pyrokinetic yet... or a plant. 

The game also has a card component. A deck of 80 cards with 40 tech cards and 40 mutation cards you might suddently manifest 

Could be something useful like life-leach or something comical like big floppy feet


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Gamma world random booster packs include more mutations and tech. These will be found in core stores 

[uh-oh; I think that might be the trigger for the apocalypse that ends civilization ]

Game days for gamma world will revolve around picking up some boosters, and creating a character based on the cards you get


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Heroes of forgotten kingdoms, offers new builds for paladin, druid, ranger, rogue and warlock. Another Essential book. 

We're focusing on the lost empires of old in this one. Human, dragonborn, tiefling, half-orc, drow, half-elf. 

criticalhits tweet: Nov: D&D essentials Heroes of Forgotten Kingdoms. Introduces more classes With new builds and races (ex dragonborn and Druid) 

Along with Player Essentials book, provides the basis for new players. Soft Cover, 20.00 

Another board game in November. Dungeons of Dragonfire Mountain. 

We looked a the Castle Ravenloft boardgame, the core system. Shares the same basic mechanics but with different twists.

Still a fast paced dungeon crawl adventure, different theme/different hooks. As both board games are modular tiles, you can combine both


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## Phaezen (Jan 28, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> Gamma world random booster packs include more mutations and tech. These will be found in core stores
> 
> [uh-oh; I think that might be the trigger for the apocalypse that ends civilization ]
> 
> Game days for gamma world will revolve around picking up some boosters, and creating a character based on the cards you get




Cue OMG they are turning it into a boardgame/ccg complaints in 3. 2. 1


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Essentials: Monster Vault. Boxed set comes with booklet of monsters as well as tokens for every kind of creature found in the book 

[who was it wanted monster pogs?  ]

December - Human book, similar to Dragonborn and Tiefling releases. 

A gamma world product - Famine in Fargo. Boxed set, adventure focused. 16 encounters. token sheets, poster maps. 10 additional cards for GM 

card deck. Mutants that are chicken creatures and vege-pigmys

3rd of the essential master tile set in December "The Wilderness" 

Essentials line as a whole - broken down into how we expect people to come into D&D start playing.


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## Nai_Calus (Jan 28, 2010)

Phaezen said:


> Cue OMG they are turning it into a boardgame/ccg complaints in 3. 2. 1




Seen some of those already, lol. "GW: The Gathering" 

Human book as the third one? Seriously? _Seriously?_ *facepalm*


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Red Box, to Rules Compendium, to Player Essentials, to DM kit, and moving on to the monster vault and the Dungeon tile sets 

Questions - one set of miniatures a year? 

Kirin - This year we have Orcus, one huge set, and a surprise. No news on next year. 

Streets of Shadow has been canceled. 

Minis set has been upped from 40 to 60. 

Criticalhits tweeted: Streets of Shadow minis set and Player's Handbook Heroes both canceled. 

How does a store sell a player on the essentials and then on the other core books? 

We drive new players to The Red Box. Once they're in red box, there's a clear migration path. 

Once people are already playing, they can go to the shelf and find the products they want. 

[okay, I'm going to have to go do stuff now, so this will be the last twitter repeat at least for a while.]


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## Phaezen (Jan 28, 2010)

Nai_Calus said:


> Seen some of those already, lol. "GW: The Gathering"




I know this, but it won't stop people


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## catsclaw227 (Jan 28, 2010)

I wonder if the essentials books will still be valuable to those that don't need to be eased into the game. 

I understand they have new builds and feats, but will they be "easy" versions that make learning the game simple and maybe out of balance with the rest of the system?


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## Squizzle (Jan 28, 2010)

Nai_Calus said:


> Human book as the third one? Seriously? _Seriously?_ *facepalm*



Still your heathen tongue! This is beyond awesome, and fairly surprising. Human supremacy forever.


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## dmccoy1693 (Jan 28, 2010)

Anyone else noticing a major lack of 4E books post GenCon? I mean there's the Rules Compendium and there's the Human book, but ... that sounds like it.  Essentials sounds like a stand alone game, based on 4E, but still not 4E. And Gamma World is stated to be stand alone. Then there's board games. Anyone else noticing this or am I not making a connection?

Edit:  Nevermind. RT CriticalHits "allaying fears" - not abandoning core d&d line. 10 products in essentials then back to core. Problem was workload. "unusual cycle"


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## catsclaw227 (Jan 28, 2010)

I am still trying to figure out if Essentials/RedBox is a 4e-lite or not. And whether it's valuable for more "advanced" 4e players.


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## Nai_Calus (Jan 28, 2010)

Overall I'm kind of disappointed. Most of it's pitched towards new players past the books we already knew about, most of which I'm not interested. Was hoping we'd hear news of an AP2 or a DP2 or a Feywild book or something. 

Also, it's time to learn to paint apparently. True, PHH hasn't had a single mini I needed yet, but there was hope. I hate blind minis, and knowing them, all the PC-workable minis will be the new VR rarity.  And with the new pricing, I already don't like blind selection, not interested, and buying singles online is a hassle. I hate buying online even if it saves some money.

Yay boxed sets though. They make me happy even if I don't need them. I love boxed sets.

Though yeah, back to stuff my current characters might be able to someday use in 2011 prz? :< 

I shudder to think that I have to rely solely on DDI for character support until 2011 at least, as much as the last couple of Dragon issues have underwhelmed me.


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## deadsmurf (Jan 28, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> I am still trying to figure out if Essentials/RedBox is a 4e-lite or not. And whether it's valuable for more "advanced" 4e players.




From what I understand, the essentials line is going to have some new builds/powers/feats etc for existing classes. I would have to assume that those features will be on par with normal power levels of the classes, but with simpler mechanics.
I mean look at the classes they've chosen to focus on, for example a Paladin rather than Fighter, which has a much simpler marking mechanic, and is easier to play, but still (more or less) about the same power level.
I think it's going to be a pretty 'dry' year for us 'advanced' players, but we'll still get a good boost of new stuff when DDI updates each month.


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

dmccoy1693 said:


> Anyone else noticing a major lack of 4E books post GenCon? I mean there's the Rules Compendium and there's the Human book, but ... that sounds like it.  Essentials sounds like a stand alone game, based on 4E, but still not 4E. And Gamma World is stated to be stand alone. Then there's board games. Anyone else noticing this or am I not making a connection?
> 
> Edit:  Nevermind. RT CriticalHits "allaying fears" - not abandoning core d&d line. 10 products in essentials then back to core. Problem was workload. "unusual cycle"




There is at least one Gamma World followup, a boxed adventure set in December. So maybe they have more planned for it, and/or other new games/"genre settings"?

(I won't mention That Which Must Not Be Named  )


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## Rechan (Jan 28, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> I am still trying to figure out if Essentials/RedBox is a 4e-lite or not. And whether it's valuable for more "advanced" 4e players.



Considering that they are introing new builds and such, I think so. 

All I will say is that I hope that stuff will be in the Character Builder/Compendium. I don't want to buy that stuff. But I am addicted to new builds. 

Equally so for the DM box stuff. I game online pretty exclusively, so tiles/tokens have no use for me. But if there are new monsters... Grr.


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## Squizzle (Jan 28, 2010)

Gamma World! Board games! Dark Sun! Psionics! Humans book! This is the year they made especially for me. All  of the rest of you can have your years later.


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## Rechan (Jan 28, 2010)

deadsmurf said:


> From what I understand, the essentials line is going to have some new builds/powers/feats etc for existing classes. I would have to assume that those features will be on par with normal power levels of the classes, but with simpler mechanics.
> I mean look at the classes they've chosen to focus on, for example a Paladin rather than Fighter, which has a much simpler marking mechanic, and is easier to play, but still (more or less) about the same power level.



Um...



> Player Essentials in September - Continues on from The Red Box. Covers classic character classes, fighter, cleric, wizard, rogue, ranger




The one with paladin/druid/etc comes after this - October at least.


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## Piratecat (Jan 28, 2010)

Bob, thanks for compiling these!


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## deadsmurf (Jan 28, 2010)

Nai_Calus said:


> Overall I'm kind of disappointed. Most of it's pitched towards new players past the books we already knew about, most of which I'm not interested. Was hoping we'd hear news of an AP2 or a DP2 or a Feywild book or something.
> 
> Also, it's time to learn to paint apparently. True, PHH hasn't had a single mini I needed yet, but there was hope. I hate blind minis, and knowing them, all the PC-workable minis will be the new VR rarity.  And with the new pricing, I already don't like blind selection, not interested, and buying singles online is a hassle. I hate buying online even if it saves some money.
> 
> ...




I would think an AP2 and a DP2 are likely early next year, and we are getting new material for some of the original classes (plus druid) in the two player essential books.
I like than PC minis are back to being in the main set (in some ways) because I primarily DM, I wasn't going to buy a PHBM set.  I hope for the increase in price again the paint quality goes back up again, at least to say, Deserts of Desolation levels. Aberrations level would nice, but I would be happy with anything really if they get rid of those really awful matte cartoony/thick colours they've been using on some minis.


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## dmccoy1693 (Jan 28, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> There is at least one Gamma World followup




I meant that GW doesn't require the 4E PHB to play.


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## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

Piratecat said:


> Bob, thanks for compiling these!




NP. It was a quiet hour at work, for a change, and I wanted to know more about Gamma World.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Jan 28, 2010)

Hmmm...no AV3, no Draconomicon 3.  I'm actually glad about those.  Wish we'd see a Shadowfell and Feywild book though.

And Mystara (but wishful thinking on that).


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## Rechan (Jan 28, 2010)

> Wish we'd see a Shadowfell and Feywild book though.



Yeah. :/


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## Vicar In A Tutu (Jan 28, 2010)

I think this was mildly disappointing. The one upper was Gamma World, but it sucks that Streets of Shadow was cancelled, and i'll definately pass on Castle Ravenloft, seeing as the minis are unpainted (I would hate playing with a mix of painted and non-painted minis). Also, the lack of a Feywild-book was a downer. Furthermore: _Only one mini-set per year, WTF_ It seems Wizards is slowly going away from miniatures and instead focusing on tokens.


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## Herschel (Jan 28, 2010)

Vicar In A Tutu said:


> Furthermore: _Only one mini-set per year, WTF_ It seems Wizards is slowly going away from miniatures and instead focusing on tokens.




The economy and discretionary spending is down. Way down. And a number of long-time players already have scads of minis. While one set is disappointing (but less so than the VR category of rares) it may just be 'breathing space' to let the economy and demand re-set. Tokens are cheap place holders until the market can re-set, if that's the case.


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## Nai_Calus (Jan 28, 2010)

deadsmurf said:


> I like than PC minis are back to being in the main set (in some ways) because I primarily DM, I wasn't going to buy a PHBM set.




Yeah, I'm the opposite and I'm pretty much always a player, and the one time I did run a campaign it was online with Fantasy Grounds II, so I just want PC minis, heh. Reminds me, I should take those minis I have from the booster pack that came with my 3.5 Player's Kit to tonight's game so the DM can use something besides dice for monsters. 

I've been kind of wanting to give DMing another shot without the annoyances of 3.5 or FGII, though, maybe the DM starter thing towards the end of the year would be the thing for me.


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## SSquirrel (Jan 28, 2010)

dmccoy1693 said:


> I meant that GW doesn't require the 4E PHB to play.




I don't know if that's true or not.  I mean, the set of books they released for Eberron are considered stand alone (ie making no more for the settings) by people.  I could see this as being like any of the different settings books for 3E.  You need the core rules to play, this gives you all the changes.  Then again GW could be a slimmed version of 4E.  Who knows yet?


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## WalterKovacs (Jan 28, 2010)

Herschel said:


> The economy and discretionary spending is down. Way down. And a number of long-time players already have scads of minis. While one set is disappointing (but less so than the VR category of rares) it may just be 'breathing space' to let the economy and demand re-set. Tokens are cheap place holders until the market can re-set, if that's the case.




It's also possible that they want to get the Essential stuff out there to try and build a pool of new players that they can sell miniatures to. If they can, for example, get stuff like the Red Box into chain stores, that could open a path to getting the miniatures in there as well. Even if Essential DnD is 4e-lite ... miniatures will likely work the same way. While the hope i that Essential players will eventually get into the full game, even those that don't would still be a potential market for the miniatures. If the market can be increased, the per mini cost would be decreased as well.


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## TerraDave (Jan 28, 2010)

I like the fact that they have slowed down the flow of crunchy hardcovers. I mean I still have yet to buy _open grave_... 

I love seeing Gamma World. As for the essentials products, we will have to see.


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## Windjammer (Jan 28, 2010)

_Kudos to WotC for focusing on what's most important to the hobby: growing it._

Sure, I'd appreciate a Feywild/Shadowfell supplement sooner than later, and am mildly disappointed that Martial Power 2 isn't followed up by equally timely _Power 2_s for the arcane and divine power sources this year. But I'm not that self-focused to fail to realize that focusing on newcomers is a solid marketing approach to boot.

I also appreciate WotC trying as hard as possible to make PH3 a seller to people not interested in psionics. 

Can't say I'm pleased about the trend they're taking MM3 towards with less statblocks and more background text. A MM is a table reference first, and I appreciated WotC offering monster ecologies for the MMs elsewhere (thinking of MotP and Plane Below here) so I wouldn't need to carry that info to the table. 
That said, MMs 1+2 contained D&D's classic monsters we were raised with. If MM3 otoh contains mostly new critters we've never seen before, the book frankly _needs _to brief us about the monsters. 

*PS. And absolutely, thanks Bob for compiling all the info for us!*


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## Pbartender (Jan 28, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> The game also has a card component. A deck of 80 cards with 40 tech cards and 40 mutation cards you might suddently manifest




I'm not exactly hot on that, but I'll be curious to see it, and I understand why they're doing it that way...  Random charts would be harder to expand.  

With a deck of cards as the randomizer, it's easy to include, exclude or weight the deck with a certain set of mutations.


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## Silverblade The Ench (Jan 28, 2010)

Squizzle said:


> Gamma World! Board games! Dark Sun! Psionics! Humans book! This is the year they made especially for me. All  of the rest of you can have your years later.




yes, I agree but, someone ask 'em about SPELLJAMMER!!!!


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## AntiStateQuixote (Jan 28, 2010)

Phaezen said:


> Cue OMG they are turning it into a boardgame/ccg complaints in 3. 2. 1




OMG they're turning it from a boardgame w/ elements of an RPG to a CCG w/ elements of boardgame.  What's next?  Rare cards for special mounts?


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## AntiStateQuixote (Jan 28, 2010)

Windjammer said:


> _Kudos to WotC for focusing on what's most important to the hobby: growing it._




I seem to remember reading that this is exactly what they intended from the beginning with 4e.  

Year 1: new game
Year 2: expand the game for old pros
Year 3: grow the market by making products for n00bs


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## Dice4Hire (Jan 28, 2010)

I, too, will be interested to see if the new "newbie" books will be compatible with 4E, but I strongly suspect that they will be. 

As for the Compendium, what exactly is "the rules" Races, classes, powers, feats, magic items, combat stuff skill challenges, etc etc etc?

Will it include stuff published only on DDI? Or only from the books? Both?

It could be very valuable or totally useless, and I am not sure yet


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## ggroy (Jan 28, 2010)

WotC's online catalog has been updated with the newly announced 4E titles.

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product Catalog


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## Rechan (Jan 28, 2010)

I'm OK with SOME fluff in the MM as long as every monster doesn't get tons of it. For the new/important ones, sure. 

What I want to know is: What monsters are IN IT?

Also what, no mention of the DMG3?


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## Piratecat (Jan 28, 2010)

catsclaw227 said:


> WOTC_Trevor mentioned the name of the new Brand Manager:
> 
> "Kirin Chase as well - Brand Manager for D&D."
> 
> Finally this mystery has been solved!



Not actually true! I've gotten confirmation from WotC: Keirin is a brand representative who does product development, but he's not the brand manager; he reports to different folks. He's very well versed on the brand, though.

Laura Tommervik heads up the team as Brand Manager and effectively has Scott's old job; she's a long-time WotC person. Shelly Mazzanoble reports to Laura and would be considered Sara Girard’s replacement. I'll see if I can get Laura to come by and say hi occasionally.


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## ProfessorCirno (Jan 28, 2010)

Phaezen said:


> Cue OMG they are turning it into a boardgame/ccg complaints in 3. 2. 1




Not to immidiately jump on it, but...well, aren't they?

The game itself IS a board game.  There's a board with tokens required to use and play on it.

You need to buy and collect packs of cards, both from the main game and from randomized booster packs.  That's pretty much exactly what a CCG is.

I guess I can see how it might not be a board game, but the ccg aspect is literally what they're going for here


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## Dragonhelm (Jan 28, 2010)

Silverblade The Ench said:


> yes, I agree but, someone ask 'em about SPELLJAMMER!!!!




Ditto with Dragonlance.

We've heard some talk that DL might be the setting for 2012, but nothing definite.  

Also, could somebody please ask about half-giants in Dark Sun?  I think my head will explode if I don't know...

*blam!*

Clean-up on aisle 4!


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## Markn (Jan 28, 2010)

I can tell you I'm pretty pissed about the news that they are doing Very Rares in the mini sets.  I stopped collecting Star Wars minis for this reason, and may very well choose to stop buying D&D minis.  

Very Rares are nothing but a money grab!


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## hexgrid (Jan 28, 2010)

ProfessorCirno said:


> Not to immidiately jump on it, but...well, aren't they?
> 
> The game itself IS a board game.  There's a board with tokens required to use and play on it.
> 
> ...




It sounds like the cards just replace the long charts that older versions of Gamma World used for random mutations. I'm okay with that.


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## Herschel (Jan 28, 2010)

WalterKovacs said:


> It's also possible that they want to get the Essential stuff out there to try and build a pool of new players that they can sell miniatures to. If they can, for example, get stuff like the Red Box into chain stores, that could open a path to getting the miniatures in there as well.




Yep. This was part of my thought, but stupid meeting got in the way of finishing my thought 'on paper'.


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## pukunui (Jan 28, 2010)

Markn said:


> I can tell you I'm pretty pissed about the news that they are doing Very Rares in the mini sets.  I stopped collecting Star Wars minis for this reason, and may very well choose to stop buying D&D minis.
> 
> Very Rares are nothing but a money grab!



And speaking of Star Wars minis, there will be no more after May. Same with the Star Wars Saga RPG. WotC has chosen not to renew the license.

They've made an announcement on the forums ... I'm guessing they won't say anything at the expo though, since it's focused on D&D?


----------



## samursus (Jan 28, 2010)

Like some others, I am fairly excited about the announcements.  I am happy to see Wizards taking a break from pumping out books.  Don't get me wrong, I thought they were of mostly good quality, but I didn't want to see the glut of 3.5.  Take some time off to make sure we get some GREAT stuff... some Tweet mentioned the reason for the hiatus from the book-a-month model was because of workload.  

While not every new product announced is for me, I can see the value for others and, well, if any of them were bad decisions, time will tell and adjustments will be made.

I am actually thinking of buying the Ravenloft Board game, as some gaming funds for the year ahead have been made available from less books.

And I think the Master Tiles sets will actually tempt me into buying my first DT's ever.

I think the time that R&D can spend this next year will help avoid crap class/races/monsters from ruining what I think is a great edition... (to be sure I like what they have done so far).

The Gamma World reboot has my attention as well.

And the Rules Compendium might be handy.  The Players Essentials might or might not be of any use for me, depending on how much fluff they have... otherwise I'll just get the crunch from the CB and Compendium.

I like the DDM change... as it will (hopefully) be a very well done and thought out set, and because there is only 1/year of randoms, I can pick up many of them cheap as individuals.  As a footnote for those who are complaining; this is a clear cut case of the non-random system just NOT working... they would not change something that was working ie: making money.  I know I had no chance of picking up individual minis recently as my FLGS would not open the boxes of the last few sets to sell individuals... not sure exactly why.  And last time I was there, the owner still had certain visible packs that just weren't selling...(looking at YOU Mr. Unicorn).


----------



## Dice4Hire (Jan 28, 2010)

I totally understand WOTC going back to non-visible miniatures, as I, too, have seen boosters that do not sell because the visible figure is so terrible. Yes, the unicorn is a poster child for that. Took me a minute to figure out what it was supposed to be....

But it looks like the prices will be the same, and that worries me a bit. At least I did know one miniature I was getting and that was good for me as a consumer, especially one who buys very very few miniatures at all. 

It looks like it will be the singles market for me with futures sets, unless I buy one pack or so just for fun, an on a whim.


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard (Jan 28, 2010)

Rechan said:


> I'm OK with SOME fluff in the MM as long as every monster doesn't get tons of it. For the new/important ones, sure.
> 
> What I want to know is: What monsters are IN IT?
> 
> Also what, no mention of the DMG3?




Damn, I'd missed that.  That's really disappointing.  I was really looking foward to an "Epic focus" DMG.


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard (Jan 28, 2010)

Markn said:


> I can tell you I'm pretty pissed about the news that they are doing Very Rares in the mini sets.  I stopped collecting Star Wars minis for this reason, and may very well choose to stop buying D&D minis.
> 
> Very Rares are nothing but a money grab!




Very rares could be the old PC models.  Really don't need much of those.


----------



## Zaukrie (Jan 28, 2010)

No wonder they need DDI. What would any 4E DM or player buy in the last three months of the year? Brutal release schedule for those of us that actually like to buy books and read them - I guess I'll just play and DM and not get any new inspiration*.

*yes, that's an exaggeration

But, what, exactly would they be trying to sell to people that own 4E? I don't get it at all.

And, once again, epic fail to WotC for the awesome updates and news they are supplying on their site....


----------



## Riley (Jan 28, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> Gamma world random booster packs include more mutations and tech. These will be found in core stores
> 
> [uh-oh; I think that might be the trigger for the apocalypse that ends civilization ]
> 
> Game days for gamma world will revolve around picking up some boosters, and creating a character based on the cards you get




Oh god.

Suddenly, my excitement for Gamma World 4e has vanished.  I quit MTG well over a decade ago, and I'm not going back.


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard (Jan 28, 2010)

There's a ton of stuff that will still come through DDI.  I think people actually underestimate now how much additional useful stuff (crunch certainly...less so on adventures) that we get through that.

I was actually starting to get book fatigue anyways.  I am disappointed to not see a DMG3 though...hopefully there will be some articles on running Epic adventures in DDI soon.


----------



## Markn (Jan 28, 2010)

pukunui said:


> And speaking of Star Wars minis, there will be no more after May. Same with the Star Wars Saga RPG. WotC has chosen not to renew the license.
> 
> They've made an announcement on the forums ... I'm guessing they won't say anything at the expo though, since it's focused on D&D?




Honestly, this was long forseen.  With no new movies, there just isn't anything to sustain the excitement of Star Wars to the general public.  There will always be the die hards but for a Star Wars rpg to be sustainable there has to be other things that drive it - like movies.  Maybe when the live action TV series gets going it may bring the excitement level up but that would be about it.

Also, I'm sure other companies will look into getting the license but they will only be modestly successful as Star Wars falls into a niche market.


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard (Jan 28, 2010)

Riley said:


> Oh god.
> 
> Suddenly, my excitement for Gamma World 4e has vanished.  I quit MTG well over a decade ago, and I'm not going back.




Seriously?  You're not going to see what the actual implementation of this is before writing it off? 

I mean, yes it does involve some sort of cards...that do have some sort of randomization to it.  But you're comparing it to a game with thousands of cards, where you actually compete against other players?

Sometimes I think that people really are unwilling to see experimentation done.


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Jan 28, 2010)

hexgrid said:


> It sounds like the cards just replace the long charts that older versions of Gamma World used for random mutations. I'm okay with that.




Eh, the issue is more with having to buy randomized booster decks to get more.

Mind you, I'm not 100% certain they're random.  If they aren't, then that makes it a bit easier to swallow.

Still viewing this somewhat cynically, but hey, what did you expect from me


----------



## Markn (Jan 28, 2010)

ArcaneSpringboard said:


> Very rares could be the old PC models.  Really don't need much of those.




I somehow doubt it.  Very Rares are usually chase rares that people want.  If people don't want it, then the very idea of a Very Rare becomes moot.  The Very Rare exists to push people to buy that next booster in hopes they get that figure when the odds are so small that its just not going to happen.  Essentially, it becomes like gambling.  Its a strong incentive to purchase, which drives sales, but long term I don't think it sustains sales as customers become disillusioned and give up on the product - because a) completionists can't complete the set and b) DMs don't have a mini for that creature.

While everyones ideas of what should be a Very Rare are different, the idea is to put things in that spot that as many people as possible want - and I just don't think PC minis fit the bill.


----------



## pukunui (Jan 28, 2010)

Markn said:


> Honestly, this was long forseen.  With no new movies, there just isn't anything to sustain the excitement of Star Wars to the general public.  There will always be the die hards but for a Star Wars rpg to be sustainable there has to be other things that drive it - like movies.  Maybe when the live action TV series gets going it may bring the excitement level up but that would be about it.



Well, there _is_ also the upcoming Old Republic MMO. I bet if WotC _had_ renewed the license they would've put out a campaign guide to coincide with it. To be honest, I'm disappointed but also somewhat relieved - I'm looking forward to having a 'finished' game once _The Unknown Regions_ comes out. My wallet (and my wife) will certainly be happier.



> Also, I'm sure other companies will look into getting the license but they will only be modestly successful as Star Wars falls into a niche market.



I'm sure they'll look but will they buy? I bet that license is hideously expensive ... and since LucasArts controls all electronic SW media (and I'm not even sure if they offer a license), the options are pretty limited.



Markn said:


> While everyones ideas of what should be a Very Rare are different, the idea is to put things in that spot that as many people as possible want - and I just don't think PC minis fit the bill.



Exactly. It'll be named figures, beholders, gold dragons and the like that'll get the Very Rare treatment.


----------



## Markn (Jan 28, 2010)

pukunui said:


> Well, there _is_ also the upcoming Old Republic MMO. I bet if WotC _had_ renewed the license they would've put out a campaign guide to coincide with it. To be honest, I'm disappointed but also somewhat relieved - I'm looking forward to having a 'finished' game once _The Unknown Regions_ comes out. My wallet (and my wife) will certainly be happier.




I'm not sure an MMO is big enough to sustain the general RPGing public.  There has to be something big, something that generates big excitement - such as new movies.  Without that, the RPG fanbase slowly dwindles until its simply not worth the licensing fees anymore.  I think almost all the major sci-fi genres are affected by this.


----------



## pukunui (Jan 28, 2010)

Markn said:


> I'm not sure an MMO is big enough to sustain the general RPGing public.  There has to be something big, something that generates big excitement - such as new movies.  Without that, the RPG fanbase slowly dwindles until its simply not worth the licensing fees anymore.  I think almost all the major sci-fi genres are affected by this.



Well, hopefully the live action TV series will do it.


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Jan 28, 2010)

pukunui said:


> Well, hopefully the live action TV series will do it.




Honestly, I think the TV series thing peaked with the first Clone Wars when Genndy Tartakovsky was behind the wheel.  Once the third movie and the really god awful pure-CGI movie came out and just crapped all over the awesomeness of his miniseries, a lot of interested died immidiately.

As for the MMORPG, I dunno.  MMORPGs haven't been doing to well at all as of late, so we'll see if this one can succeed where all the other recent ones have flopped.


----------



## Zaukrie (Jan 28, 2010)

Must be some exciting D&D news, if the whole thread is about minis and star wars....


----------



## coyote6 (Jan 28, 2010)

ProfessorCirno said:


> Eh, the issue is more with having to buy randomized booster decks to get more.
> 
> Mind you, I'm not 100% certain they're random.  If they aren't, then that makes it a bit easier to swallow.




If GW gets added to the character creator software, or gets its own separate one (depending on how close it hews to 4e, it might be pretty easy to spin off a separate builder for it), then I imagine the powers/mutations on the cards will all show up in the software. Presto -- you don't _need_ to buy the booster cards, any more than you needed to buy the DDM PH line to get the new power cards in them.

(One of the tweets did say "random booster packs" -- that could be wrong, of course.)



ProfessorCirno said:


> Still viewing this somewhat cynically, but hey, what did you expect from me




I knew I should've picked you in the First Person To Call It A CCG pool.


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Jan 28, 2010)

Zaukrie said:


> Must be some exciting D&D news, if the whole thread is about minis and star wars....




Eh, the D&D stuff is just business as usual.

The minis, Gamma World, and SWSE, are much bigger changes.


----------



## darjr (Jan 29, 2010)

Hey! Wil is there!

dang. I knew I should have gone.

wut? I guess he isn't there after all.


----------



## darjr (Jan 29, 2010)

Geeks Dream Girl coverit live page.

LiveBlogging: Dungeons & Dragons Experience 2010 (DDXP) : Geek's Dream Girl

She just posted some details about defiling.


----------



## ShinHakkaider (Jan 29, 2010)

Markn said:


> Honestly, this was long forseen.  With no new movies, there just isn't anything to sustain the excitement of Star Wars to the general public.  There will always be the die hards but for a Star Wars rpg to be sustainable there has to be other things that drive it - like movies.  Maybe when the live action TV series gets going it may bring the excitement level up but that would be about it.
> 
> Also, I'm sure other companies will look into getting the license but they will only be modestly successful as Star Wars falls into a niche market.




Um, I don't know how many of you are watching but CLONE WARS on Cartoon Network HD but it is pretty damn good. It took me a couple of episodes to get on board but wow. I liked it so much that I picked up the 1st season on Blu-Ray, so yeah there's still Star Wars out there and as you mentioned the live action series when it does start...


----------



## Fanaelialae (Jan 29, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> If GW gets added to the character creator software, or gets its own separate one (depending on how close it hews to 4e, it might be pretty easy to spin off a separate builder for it), then I imagine the powers/mutations on the cards will all show up in the software.




Allegedly, stat blocks for GW will be compatible with 4e.


----------



## Riley (Jan 29, 2010)

Riley said:


> Oh god.
> 
> Suddenly, my excitement for Gamma World 4e has vanished.  I quit MTG well over a decade ago, and I'm not going back.






ArcaneSpringboard said:


> Seriously?  You're not going to see what the actual implementation of this is before writing it off?
> 
> I mean, yes it does involve some sort of cards...that do have some sort of randomization to it.  But you're comparing it to a game with thousands of cards, where you actually compete against other players?
> 
> Sometimes I think that people really are unwilling to see experimentation done.




I didn't say I'm writing it off; I'm just saying that my excitement level suddenly went from "Wow! Yay!" to "Oh god."

Cards are expensive, and you get very little crunch (or fluff) for your buck.  That greatly raises the bar on how awesome GW4e will have to be in order to justify the additional cost.


----------



## Hawke (Jan 29, 2010)

I was expecting a sort of Dungeon Delves 2... I really really enjoyed that product. I guess some of their DDI stuff is sought to replace it... but I really did enjoy that quick and dirty 1-30 delves... would love it broken down into tier... a book of heroic, a book of paragon, and a book of epic maybe? Do 2 heroic, 2 paragon Year 1 and then 2 heroic, 1 paragon and 1 epic year 2?


----------



## Dice4Hire (Jan 29, 2010)

yes, it does seem odd to me that they are taking at least a half-year or so out of the I, II, III schedule to make these materials for "newer" players. Frankly, I am interested in them, if they are fully 4E compatible, as I think they will be. I was not buying any II  or III books this year except Martial Power, and that mostly for the feats for martial PHBII races.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Jan 29, 2010)

Dice4Hire said:


> yes, it does seem odd to me that they are taking at least a half-year or so out of the I, II, III schedule to make these materials for "newer" players. Frankly, I am interested in them, if they are fully 4E compatible, as I think they will be. I was not buying any II  or III books this year except Martial Power, and that mostly for the feats for martial PHBII races.




It doesn't seem odd to me at all.  We've got a lot of stuff to play with between PHB1/2/3 (and not even including DDI).  Sure, they _could_ churn out more splatbooks, but that well runs dry relatively quickly.  On the other hand, getting new players into the hobby will allow a more stable income base, especially if those people jump on board DDI.

I'm _hoping_ that part of their plan is to expand the DDI tools to allow for online play.  I strongly suspect that was the motive behind the Atari breach-of-contract snafu.  If they can tap into the gaming crowd directly like that, it would be a huge boon for them.


----------



## Shemeska (Jan 29, 2010)

So did anyone at DDXP ask them how much progress they've made on the Virtual Tabletop?


----------



## Jack99 (Jan 29, 2010)

Shemeska said:


> So did anyone at DDXP ask them how much progress they've made on the Virtual Tabletop?




Yes.


----------



## Rechan (Jan 29, 2010)

Have they not engaged the events with the PHB3 stuff? I wanna know about the Battlemind! What's the Shardmind's racial stat mods? Talk about the Runepriest! EEEE.

Also, can someone ask what monsters are in the MM3? I'm hoping for Cloakers, or Derro, or something.


----------



## Dannager (Jan 29, 2010)

Riley said:


> I didn't say I'm writing it off; I'm just saying that my excitement level suddenly went from "Wow! Yay!" to "Oh god."
> 
> Cards are expensive, and you get very little crunch (or fluff) for your buck.  That greatly raises the bar on how awesome GW4e will have to be in order to justify the additional cost.



See, here's the _crazy_ thing. You don't need to buy _any booster packs!_ You can just buy Gamma World 4e, and you'll probably get a ton of mileage out of just that product. If, for some reason, you feel your game is going stale because of lack of variety in mutations or what not, you have the ability to very easily go out and purchase an infusion of new ones. They're optional. This isn't M:tG. Your game won't suck if you don't buy booster packs. You're not competing against each other. Having the cards _just right_ isn't going to matter.


----------



## Sammael (Jan 29, 2010)

If the GW booster packs contain slightly stronger mutations (and I think it's a given they will), then if one player purchases a pack for his characters and the other players don't, he'll have an advantage. Then again, the GM may veto the use of new cards, but I suspect that WotC will try to push the "all cards are core" policy as much as possible.


----------



## Keefe the Thief (Jan 29, 2010)

Sammael said:


> If the GW booster packs contain slightly stronger mutations (and I think it's a given they will), then if one player purchases a pack for his characters and the other players don't, he'll have an advantage. Then again, the GM may veto the use of new cards, but I suspect that WotC will try to push the "all cards are core" policy as much as possible.




It´s good that there are no concerns like this when nobody buys any boosters (cue 20-page-forked-thread about "the very existence of these boosters pressures the DM to allow them!11!").


----------



## Dannager (Jan 29, 2010)

Sammael said:


> If the GW booster packs contain slightly stronger mutations (and I think it's a given they will), then if one player purchases a pack for his characters and the other players don't, he'll have an advantage. Then again, the GM may veto the use of new cards, but I suspect that WotC will try to push the "all cards are core" policy as much as possible.



Woah, woah, woah, there.

First, we have no idea if each player will have his own mutation deck, or if it will simply be a shared deck used by the players. I actually believe the latter would be more likely, but you could be right.

More importantly, one player having a slight advantage in terms of having a very small chance to draw an ability that is a bit more powerful than your average random ability really isn't going to mess with your cooperative game. In fact, since we know that mutations will be both good and bad, I have a feeling that the DM will be the one putting the deck together for the players to use. If that were not the case, the cunning player would simply make his deck of nothing but the beneficial (and the _most_ beneficial) mutations.

Please resist the temptation to wildly speculate without taking the time to examine whether the things you are speculating about are at all likely.


----------



## vagabundo (Jan 29, 2010)

Shemeska said:


> So did anyone at DDXP ask them how much progress they've made on the Virtual Tabletop?




I thought that was cancelled - or at least on hold right now.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 29, 2010)

vagabundo said:


> I thought that was cancelled - or at least on hold right now.



Hence the desire for news, I think.


----------



## WalterKovacs (Jan 29, 2010)

Dice4Hire said:


> I, too, will be interested to see if the new "newbie" books will be compatible with 4E, but I strongly suspect that they will be.
> 
> As for the Compendium, what exactly is "the rules" Races, classes, powers, feats, magic items, combat stuff skill challenges, etc etc etc?
> 
> ...




From Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product (Rules Compendium):

In addition to providing an overview of the game and how it’s played, this book presents the core rules in a format that is easily referenced during a game. It includes information on level advancement, combat, experience points, treasure, skills, equipment, and more.

So, basically most of the things outside of actual races, classes, paragon paths, epic destinies, feats, rituals, magic items, monsters, etc ... so basically everything in abstract, nothing specific.

[As a side note, FYI, the product catelogue Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product Catalog is updated with most if not all of the products mentioned, and has some clearer info than just bits and pieces that have been tweeted.]


----------



## malkav666 (Jan 29, 2010)

While the 4e news does not excite me. Unless I go to the store and for some reason the packaging of the Ravenloft game turns me off then I will get that this year. My group has a soft spot for good beard games, and co-op dungeon crawling games are some of our favorites. 

If someone at the show has a chance would they please find out if this Ravenloft game requires a "DM" player or if everyone gets to play as an adventurer?

I am interested in the update to 3 Dragon Ante a well. I enjoyed the first game. If the price is right I would probably get the new one. I would like to hear more about this as well.

I usually buy 3-6 packs of D&D minis when a new set comes out because I like having them for my PF games. I will admit I bought more when I could see one. The very rare thing does not bother me. I never look at whats in the set or try and get rares. IF there is a mini I absolutely need, I buy it after market. I am a little miffed that the price is not going back down. It was raised when they had the clamshell and viewable mini to offset the costs of the packaging and less popular minis not selling if I remember correctly. If they are going back to nonviewable I thinkt he price should come back down.

I maintain vague interest about Gamma World. I do not like the 4e ruleset, so it probably won't be for me. But if its set up like a board game I may have interest. I will keep an eye for more info. Can't say i am really pleased about anything randomlhy purchased for an RPG, and the term "booster pack" makes me cringe. I am not gonna cry foul as the product more than likely is not aimed at me anyway. But the idea of random boosters does not sit well. But I will just stay over here and watch for info on that issue.

love,

malkav


----------



## Dice4Hire (Jan 29, 2010)

WalterKovacs said:


> From Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Product (Rules Compendium):
> 
> In addition to providing an overview of the game and how it’s played, this book presents the core rules in a format that is easily referenced during a game. It includes information on level advancement, combat, experience points, treasure, skills, equipment, and more.
> 
> ...




Yes, I read all this, but it does not answer my questions.


----------



## Jhaelen (Jan 29, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Also, can someone ask what monsters are in the MM3? I'm hoping for Cloakers, or Derro, or something.



I know from a reliable source that MM3 will definitely include *something*. So, that's one of your hopes fulfilled!


----------



## avin (Jan 29, 2010)

Another vote for "somebody ask them about what MM3 monster will be in! We need spoilers!"


----------



## Jack99 (Jan 29, 2010)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> Hence the desire for news, I think.




I doubt it's that.


----------



## Jhaelen (Jan 29, 2010)

Dice4Hire said:


> But it looks like the prices will be the same, and that worries me a bit. At least I did know one miniature I was getting and that was good for me as a consumer, especially one who buys very very few miniatures at all.



Well, you do get six minis instead of five for the same price...

Still, I'm a bit sad that the approach with the visibles didn't work well enough for them. These were finally some sets I managed to get most minis from without having to look for them on ebay et.al.


----------



## Stormtower (Jan 29, 2010)

coyote6 said:


> August lords of madness set, huge set, no visual miniature anymore, 6 minis - and introducing very rares of different sizes




Bad, bad decision by WotC here.  Very Rares were always going to be the deathknell to my collecting (I've been a two-cases-at-least buyer since Harbinger for RPG use).

I know it's too late to for WotC to reconsider the Very Rare distribution.  I'm a big fan of 4E, but this news about Very Rares in the next minis sets is making me extremely sour on the future of minis.

Also, I'm a DDI subscriber and I've come to ENWorld for all my DDXP info updates.  Not feeling like an "Insider" right now for my subscription fees.  Big fail there, WotC.

Hope the "Essentials" line is truly compatible with core 4E and its crunch is integrated into the CB software.  If this is the case, I'll probably be buying the Essentials.

Man, I'm really ticked about the VR distribution.  Sucktastic money grab there.


----------



## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

Stormtower said:


> Bad, bad decision by WotC here.  Very Rares were always going to be the deathknell to my collecting (I've been a two-cases-at-least buyer since Harbinger for RPG use).
> 
> I know it's too late to for WotC to reconsider the Very Rare distribution.  I'm a big fan of 4E, but this news about Very Rares in the next minis sets is making my extremely sour.




QFT!

I've collected since Harbinger as well.  Minimum of 2 cases per set, sometimes as much as 6 cases - though 2 cases have been the norm for the last year or two.  

Ode to D&D minis:

I've always had my "Dragoneye" on miniatures.  I have considered the miniatures from WotC, while not always perfect, to be my "Giants of Legend", however, I am beginning to consider WotC to be "Archfiends", with their announcement of Very Rares.  I consider it to be a "Harbinger" of doom to my collection which has left me in a "Desert of Desolation" while I suffer through a long "Night Below" upon these "Unhallowed" grounds.  These choices that WotC has made are "Aberrations" at best, and they stoke the passions of "Angelfire" in which I must speak out "Against the Giants" and bang my own "War Drums" so that WotC understands the "Blood War" that is inevitable and in the end will surely be known as the "War of the Dragon Queen".  In the "Underdark" that is to follow, WotC may become known as the "Dungeon of Dread", and I hope the person responsible for the Very Rare decision is eaten by a spider in a "Demonweb" for surely this decision will become known as "Legendary Evils" and in the future my "Dangerous Delves" as a DM will surely have less miniatures for my "Savage Encounters". 

To sum up, this could be the "Deathknell" for me to support the D&D minis line. 

Ah... I feel better now!


----------



## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

Stormtower said:


> Also, I'm a DDI subscriber and I've come to ENWorld for all my DDXP info updates.  Not feeling like an "Insider" right now for my subscription fees.  Big fail there, WotC.




I get the sentiment that you feel behind this but I feel this might be a bit misplaced.  DDXP is essentially a marketing or sales tool.  They use these "Cons", if you will, to draw new people into the game.  Keeping that to DDI subscribers would be counter to this strategy.  Rather, Wotc, should enhance the offerings they have at events like DDXP to give the DDI subscribers an extra bone - be it extra crunch, a priveleged sneak peak at a class or something along those lines.  Essentially, it should be extra crunch or fluff (thinking design diary or something) that isn't necessary to the marketing
drive needed to bring in new players that makes DDI subscribers feel like they are getting something extra that the non subscribers are getting.


----------



## Kelon (Jan 29, 2010)

Markn said:


> QFT!
> 
> I've collected since Harbinger as well.  Minimum of 2 cases per set, sometimes as much as 6 cases - though 2 cases have been the norm for the last year or two.
> 
> ...




Well spoken! Good Work!


----------



## avin (Jan 29, 2010)

Legendary Evils gave me a cheap Balor, Goristro, Remorhaz, Elder Green Dragon... now imagine is these were Very Rares...

I told you, "exciting" news on miniatures only for Wotc employees. Very Rares do sux...


----------



## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

I am curious, though, what the surprise for DDM is later this year.

Probably the announcement of a Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Rare!  

Edit - I would also like to know in more concrete terms how much more limited Orcus will be.  Does this mean my local store needs to put in an order to get one?  Does it mean only available at WotC stores?  Does it mean only in print for 1 month?  I hate how vague that info is.


----------



## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

avin said:


> Legendary Evils gave me a cheap Balor, Goristro, Remorhaz, Elder Green Dragon... now imagine is these were Very Rares...
> 
> I told you, "exciting" news on miniatures only for Wotc employees. Very Rares do sux...




Actually, I was incredibly pleased with this set.  It was the first time I bought 2 cases and got every mini!  So, obviously the distribution was great for that set!


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## megamania (Jan 29, 2010)

oh lordy what is going on with the miniatures lately 


This is the 3rd or 4th big change up in the production of the figures in the past 2-3 years.

I fear Orcus will be handled like the Heroclix Bricks.   Buy a case, get a certificate.  Pay for Shipping & Handling (buncha money).  Works for them.

Ultra Rare figures is what made me quit Heroclix.  

I guess I need to just wait and see what the product becomes once the dust settles.   Too much uncertainity still.


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## Mark (Jan 29, 2010)

Markn said:


> I am curious, though, what the surprise for DDM is later this year.
> 
> Probably the announcement of a Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Very Rare!






Probably that USB-connected, tiny, dedicated holographic projector for laptop DMs that emits a blinkdog image onto the battlemat with the click of a spacebar.


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## Stormtower (Jan 29, 2010)

Markn said:


> I get the sentiment that you feel behind this but I feel this might be a bit misplaced.  DDXP is essentially a marketing or sales tool.  They use these "Cons", if you will, to draw new people into the game.  Keeping that to DDI subscribers would be counter to this strategy.  Rather, Wotc, should enhance the offerings they have at events like DDXP to give the DDI subscribers an extra bone - be it extra crunch, a priveleged sneak peak at a class or something along those lines.  Essentially, it should be extra crunch or fluff (thinking design diary or something) that isn't necessary to the marketing
> drive needed to bring in new players that makes DDI subscribers feel like they are getting something extra that the non subscribers are getting.




True enough.  Also I was venting there because I'm in the DC Metro area and have missed the last two (Fort Wayne) DDXPs.


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## the Jester (Jan 29, 2010)

*Monster Manual 3*

I just wanted to throw out that I totally agree with the need for at least a partial list of the monsters in MM3. We've seen indications of what-

Catastrophe dragon, volcano
Mimic

Uhh... I seem to recall there being at least two more, but I cannot recall what.

I think we can expect an earthquake dragon, and I wouldn't be at all suprised to see a few pages of "more githyanki" or something. Which, if done both well and in moderation, is okay by me (4e MM2 = did it right, 3.5 MM4 = terribly, terribly wrong).

What else, what else? Maybe some of the preview games have MM3 monsters in them? Anyone got any clues?


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## fba827 (Jan 29, 2010)

Markn said:


> (snip)
> Rather, Wotc, should enhance the offerings they have at events like DDXP to give the DDI subscribers an extra bone - be it extra crunch, a priveleged sneak peak at a class or something along those lines.  Essentially, it should be extra crunch or fluff (thinking design diary or something) that isn't necessary to the marketing drive needed to bring in new players that makes DDI subscribers feel like they are getting something extra that the non subscribers are getting.




You mean kind of like the 6-month advance info on PHB3 content that doesn't even require you to be at DDXP? 

(I'm agreeing with you, just wanted to draw attention to the fact that they are kind of doing something like this already, just not specifically for DDXP which, as you said, is more of a marketting tool ---  also DDI is very "static" and "review process heavy" (which is a good thing) so it's hard for them to just post stuff "on the fly" there.  That's why they have their DD twitter, for informal announcements.. I'm sure their website will get updated with a summary later on.


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## davethegame (Jan 29, 2010)

Rechan said:


> Also, can someone ask what monsters are in the MM3? I'm hoping for Cloakers, or Derro, or something.




As far as I can recall from the seminar, Cloakers were the only MM3 monster mentioned.


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## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

Stormtower said:


> True enough.  Also I was venting there because I'm in the DC Metro area and have missed the last two (Fort Wayne) DDXPs.




I hear ya...At least you've gone.  I live in Canada and have yet to go to a Con of any type.  I'll make it one of these days.


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## kenmarable (Jan 29, 2010)

fba827 said:


> also DDI is very "static" and "review process heavy" (which is a good thing) so it's hard for them to just post stuff "on the fly" there.



Not so sure about the "review process heavy" given some of the WotC staff have twittered (tweeted?) about needing to finish their articles that were going to be posted the following day.  Hopefully that's more for the DDI "columns" than their crunch-heavy features, but I was shocked when I saw more than one of them talking about writing a DDI post the night before. Definitely a change from the several month time frame of the old print magazines! (even excluding print and distribution time)


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## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

fba827 said:


> You mean kind of like the 6-month advance info on PHB3 content that doesn't even require you to be at DDXP?
> 
> (I'm agreeing with you, just wanted to draw attention to the fact that they are kind of doing something like this already, just not specifically for DDXP which, as you said, is more of a marketting tool ---  also DDI is very "static" and "review process heavy" (which is a good thing) so it's hard for them to just post stuff "on the fly" there.  That's why they have their DD twitter, for informal announcements.. I'm sure their website will get updated with a summary later on.




You are absolutely right.  Since the cons are about marketing though, and it creates a lot of chatter and buzz on the net about the new things, WotC would be well advised to take advantage of that on DDI articles too.  Even if its a design diary or even just a bit more in depth than what the average non DDI guy can get that would help.  Basically, they just need to extend the marketing to DDI during the Con.

On a completely different note - I wonder if the break in 4e crunch books (aside from books designed to draw in new players) will be used to gauge DDI more.  With less spending on books, will more people give DDI a shot?  I think the numbers could be interesting.


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## Knightfall (Jan 29, 2010)

Markn said:


> I hear ya...At least you've gone.  I live in Canada and have yet to go to a Con of any type.  I'll make it one of these days.



I can empathize with you. I've never had the chance to attend a major gaming Convention. I've only recently heard of a SciFi & Fantasy festival in Edmonton called _Pure Speculation_, which is held every October. I didn't learn about it until it was already over for 2009, but I'm eager to experience it in 2010.


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## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

Knightfall said:


> I can empathize with you. I've never had the chance to attend a major gaming Convention. I've only recently heard of a SciFi & Fantasy festival in Edmonton called _Pure Speculation_, which is held every October. I didn't learn about it until it was already over for 2009, but I'm eager to experience it in 2010.




Do tell!  I'm in Grande Prairie, a mere 4 hour drive away!!!!


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## Markn (Jan 29, 2010)

Knightfall said:


> I can empathize with you. I've never had the chance to attend a major gaming Convention. I've only recently heard of a SciFi & Fantasy festival in Edmonton called _Pure Speculation_, which is held every October. I didn't learn about it until it was already over for 2009, but I'm eager to experience it in 2010.




Edit:  Nevermind, I guess I can just click you link!


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## Rechan (Jan 29, 2010)

davethegame said:


> as far as i can recall from the seminar, cloakers were the only mm3 monster mentioned.



mwahahaha.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Jan 29, 2010)

megamania said:


> oh lordy what is going on with the miniatures lately
> 
> 
> This is the 3rd or 4th big change up in the production of the figures in the past 2-3 years.
> ...




I suspect it's one last gasp at trying to do this profitably before giving up the ghost.


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## Black Flame Zealot (Jan 29, 2010)

We've just uploaded the podcasts from yesterday's seminars. They can be found here on the D&D Experience coverage page. 

Also, a few things to take away:

The Essentials line will contain lots of new content for existing players, and is not a different 4E ruleset. 

We'll be doing a "deeper dive" into Dark Sun with the Athas Unveiled! seminar tomorrow at 3 pm Eastern (Rich Baker and Rob Schwalb hosting). Also, we'll talk more about the new 3-Dragon Ante expansion, lots on the two boardgames, and more Gamma World in the Beyond the D&D RPG seminar tomorrow at 1 pm Eastern (Mike Mearls and Rich Baker hosting). 

We will be posting the seminars on the coverage page as we get done with production on them. 

And also, we announced our new in-store weekly play program called D&D Encounters during the OP and Community seminar yesterday. First season starts on March 17, runs through June 2, and is set in Undermountain. Second season will start on June 9 and will be a Dark Sun preview. 

Have fun listening to the podcasts!


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## Nahat Anoj (Jan 29, 2010)

the Jester said:


> What else, what else? Maybe some of the preview games have MM3 monsters in them? Anyone got any clues?



Well, from the cover, I can guess one of them ...


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## Pour (Jan 29, 2010)

Jonathan Moyer said:


> Well, from the cover, I can guess one of them ...




Okay, Cloakers AND Post-Op Drizzt


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## Nahat Anoj (Jan 29, 2010)

Pour said:


> Okay, Cloakers AND Post-Op Drizzt



lol! Nice one.


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## Rechan (Jan 29, 2010)

Pour said:


> Post-Op Drizzt


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## Nahat Anoj (Jan 29, 2010)

Not sure if anyone's seen this yet, but the Critical Hits blog has some screen shots of the Dark Sun characters.  One of them is for "Kindrok, Male Goliath (Half-Giant) Arena Fighter."


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## Nikosandros (Jan 29, 2010)

So, no DMG 3 in 2010... I wasn't expecting that. I wonder if it will just be delayed until early 2011 or if WotC decided that they don't really need one of each "core" book per year.


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## DaveMage (Jan 29, 2010)

ArcaneSpringboard said:


> I suspect it's one last gasp at trying to do this profitably before giving up the ghost.




Yep.


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## GMforPowergamers (Jan 30, 2010)

DaveMage said:


> Yep.




oh, no... this might be the end of 4e!!!!!  could this mean gen con will announce 4e???





Spoiler



i kid I kid...


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## Shroomy (Jan 30, 2010)

the Jester said:


> I just wanted to throw out that I totally agree with the need for at least a partial list of the monsters in MM3. We've seen indications of what-
> 
> Catastrophe dragon, volcano
> Mimic
> ...




The other two monsters you were thinking of were the catoblepas and the quasit.  I also believe that the typhoon dragon is one of the catastrophe dragons.


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## ggroy (Jan 30, 2010)

Podcast of new product seminar.

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (D&D Experience)


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## davethegame (Jan 30, 2010)

Nikosandros said:


> So, no DMG 3 in 2010... I wasn't expecting that. I wonder if it will just be delayed until early 2011 or if WotC decided that they don't really need one of each "core" book per year.




I asked about that specifically, and all the could say is "Just because it no longer appears on the 2010 product schedule doesn't mean it's canceled."


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## ggroy (Jan 30, 2010)

davethegame said:


> I asked about that specifically, and all the could say is "Just because it no longer appears on the 2010 product schedule doesn't mean it's canceled."




Sounds like corporate doublespeak for "we don't know".


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## darjr (Jan 30, 2010)

Is this the final art for the new 'red box'?

I like it.

from ddmspoilers.com • View topic - Next Year's WotC Product Releases


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## Maggan (Jan 30, 2010)

darjr said:


> Is this the final art for the new 'red box'?
> 
> I like it.




So it seems to be a red box, in a literal sense. I like it too, and it'll be interesting to see where this goes.

Red Box D&D (Mentzer version) is what got me into D&D in the first place. So if they hew closely to that, my nostalgic craving will be satisfied. Time will tell if that is also a viable strategy for aquisition of new gamers.

/M


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## Rechan (Jan 30, 2010)

General question: How is this going to be marketed to get new folks into D&D? I mean, it's all wel and good to make a Box game, but that doesn't send out a signal to young gamers. 

Are they going to put it in toy stores? Run commercials? How are they going to get it in the new gamers' eyes?


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## GMforPowergamers (Jan 30, 2010)

Rechan said:


> General question: How is this going to be marketed to get new folks into D&D? I mean, it's all wel and good to make a Box game, but that doesn't send out a signal to young gamers.
> 
> Are they going to put it in toy stores? Run commercials? How are they going to get it in the new gamers' eyes?




the current basic box set was in our local Toys R us for christmas, and I know some walmarts sell the books (just not around here) so I have to think that is the start of moveing in the right direction...

now some ads in comics, and on satermaorning cartoons (are there still sat morning cartoons?), and some better placement in local stores could show a big boom in the 8-16 age range...


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## filthgrinder (Jan 31, 2010)

Rechan said:


> General question: How is this going to be marketed to get new folks into D&D? I mean, it's all wel and good to make a Box game, but that doesn't send out a signal to young gamers.
> 
> Are they going to put it in toy stores? Run commercials? How are they going to get it in the new gamers' eyes?




One of the reasons cited was that traditional book sellers didn't have a good direction to point people interested in the game. Or if they got the "starter set" they didn't know where to go from there. This series is to develop a clear product path for people getting into the game.


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## UngeheuerLich (Jan 31, 2010)

I think the price is what matters here: 25$ to get everything you need for the beginning sounds a lot better than 90$ if you don´t have a clue what this game is about...

so, this box should come out as a good way to make people interested in the game... and it doesn´t sound as a bad startingpoint either...


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## lexoanvil (Jan 31, 2010)

if they were smart they would make another D&D cartoon for the new generation. best advertising they could possibly do.


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## Nifelhein (Jan 31, 2010)

Ah yeah, a new D&D cartoon could rock.


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## Nai_Calus (Jan 31, 2010)

As long as it has that gnome in it. I'm a monster! Rawr!


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## ProfessorCirno (Jan 31, 2010)

Nifelhein said:


> Ah yeah, a new D&D cartoon could rock.




It actually could potentially work, depending on how it's done.

Wakfu is a french cartoon for an MMO that's in beta testing, and it's pretty popular to my understanding.  Also, pretty awesome.  It helps that it's really well done, though.


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## darjr (Jan 31, 2010)

A new D&D cartoon would rock. And if it was in the style of the Gnome cartoons would be even better.

Toys for Tots are going to get a few of those boxes from me.


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