# Hero Lab - do you use it?



## Olive (Feb 1, 2011)

So one thing that totally burned me out on D&D was the difficulty of making interesting stat blocks at higher levels: templated creatures, monsters with class levels, etc.

But Hero Labs looks like the sort of thing I would have enjoyed using and would have taken the fiddle out of it. So have you used it? Does it work well?


----------



## Mojo_Rat (Feb 1, 2011)

several people in my group use it. my dm found it easy to make npc quickly. it gets some things wrong but does a good job otherwise. I am waiting for it to come outbon the iPad which sill be after their Mac version is finished.. though probably a while after.


----------



## Thazar (Feb 1, 2011)

Our group of seven players all have a copy of Hero lab and it works great.  They have a fairly good community that will help answer questions and you can set a lot of house rules and custom items.  I would certainly recommend it.

(We actually all have netbooks and run the program live for each player at the table and do not use the printed sheets.  This allows us to turn on and off spell effects, conditions, feats, and other adjustments for live numbers on skills, feats, saves, etc.)


----------



## Nikmal (Feb 1, 2011)

This is one of the better tools for DM's and players alike out there right now when in regards to Pathfinder. As a DM I use this software exclusively. It allows me as a DM to bring in any of the creatures from either of the bestiarys and then apply any type of template, advancement, ghost, undead and so on... not to mention I am able to apply levels of any of the classes from either the core rules or even the Advanced Players Guide. 

This software as a tool during the game as a DM is very nice too. It is allows me to open the Tactical Console, which then I can apply any manner of condition, adjustment and or anything else I may need. It also allows me to bring in other NPC's, creatures or characters from other portfolios I have created or from stock portfolios that the developers created. This might not seem like much but when I am running an adventure for my group, I input their characters before the gaame and then during the week I go through the adventure either as I am writing it or reading through it, and then take each NPC, creature and then  give it it's own portfoilio labled by the name of the encounter and then as I am running the game. I can inport the encounter to the group (groups charcters) I already have opened on my laptop/netbook. then onc ethe encounter is done I can remove the NPC or creature from the game. Making a little note about the outcome of the encounter 

As a player, this is amazing software too. Imagine sitting there thinking up a concept for a character yet you have no true idea how you want to build it fromn idea to reality. While looking at the book gives you some wonderful ideas it does not conceptualize quite as well as does Hero Labs. HL allows you to addd levels from any of the classes from either the Core rules system, the 6 from the APG or even the new play test characters that are out right now such as the Magus and the alternate characters such as the Ninja, Samurai, and Gunslinger, not to mention the Sable Company Marine Archetype too. You can go through and see each feat, special powers/class abilities and the like that you can add or can't even. you can add levels up to 20th level if you want and check out each indivdual thing that your character can have and or can't even the Traits, Feats, Skills, Prestige classes, spell like abilities and practically anything you can think of involving the class/character/race you are currently working on. 

Also there is the strongest thing I think about with Hero Labs and that is the Editor, Thed editor allows you as a player/DM or just plain user of this software to open the editor and create custom creations, be it classes, races, creatures, items, magic items, custom gear, Abilities, feats or pretty much anything that the game has that you want in it you can do with this program. Now keep in mind there is a little bit of a learning curve with this editor but there are numerous tutorials out there for that as well as the great Hero Labs community that is more then willing to help if asked nicely. 

As you can tell I am fairly passionate about this software and while it can get things wrong occasionally the one thing you have to keep in mind if it does get something wrong and you catch it, PLEASE report this in the bug section on their forums under Pathfiner so it can be corrected and then not get it wrong any longer  This software is developed by humans so they occasionally are not perfect hehe. 

Hope I answered your question/s?


----------



## Olive (Feb 1, 2011)

That's awesome guys.

One more question: how easy is it to add my own monsters to the system if I want them?


----------



## thundershot (Feb 1, 2011)

After reading this thread, a quick google with some screenshots made me download it. This is the kind of thing I want, and I haven't even started our campaign yet (Kingmaker)..


----------



## SkredlitheOgre (Feb 2, 2011)

I use Hero Lab, but only the demo.  The demo still allows me to create npc/monsters, which I then write down on a 3x5 card, because I don't like having my laptop on the gaming table, as I'm DM.  Hero Lab's pretty awesome, though, so I'm thinking about buying it.


----------



## Hawkwind (Feb 2, 2011)

The feature i like best is Herolabs integration with the D20Pro Virtual table top application. Its makes prep for my online games really simple


----------



## Micco (Feb 3, 2011)

Hero Lab is very good. They continue to add features and content to the PF version of the software.  I highly recommend it.


----------



## ShinHakkaider (Feb 3, 2011)

Olive said:


> So one thing that totally burned me out on D&D was the difficulty of making interesting stat blocks at higher levels: templated creatures, monsters with class levels, etc.
> 
> But Hero Labs looks like the sort of thing I would have enjoyed using and would have taken the fiddle out of it. So have you used it? Does it work well?




I have it and use it. I have been using it since before Pathfinder for 3.5 AND Mutants & Masterminds. It's invaluable for prepping my COTCT game. The PC's started out a litter higher level than the 1st Mod so I had to adjust a few of the encounters some and Hero Lab made it very easy to do so. After adjusting I print the NNPC or adjusted monster as a PDF, print and tuck it into my DM notebook for the game. 

I loves me some Hero Lab.


----------



## Cergorach (Feb 3, 2011)

I wouldn't exactly call it cheap, especially not with all the extra content, it's of course a time vs. cost issue. I could see me buying it (as a GM), I think that unless players play RPGs very regualry, they would be reluctant to shell out all the cash for the program and all the extra content.

Such a program is usefull during prep time, but I don't think I'll use my PC at the table, so an iPad connection would be very usefull.

How does this program compare to programs like PCGen and the like?


----------



## Nikmal (Feb 4, 2011)

Cergorach said:


> I wouldn't exactly call it cheap, especially not with all the extra content, it's of course a time vs. cost issue. I could see me buying it (as a GM), I think that unless players play RPGs very regualry, they would be reluctant to shell out all the cash for the program and all the extra content.
> 
> Such a program is usefull during prep time, but I don't think I'll use my PC at the table, so an iPad connection would be very usefull.
> 
> How does this program compare to programs like PCGen and the like?




PCGen is good too. There are some major differences between PCGen and HL. 
1 The interface on Hero Labs is a little easier to use in my opinion.
2. I think for the general user it is easier to add custom content in to HL over PCGen.
3. All the main Core Rules books like the GMG, the APG, the Core Rules, Both the Bestiaries are ALL added in to Hero Labs and with PCGen they are being added as we speak.. so it is a little slower on data entry. 
4 PCGen is free and HL is not. The Volunteers that enter the data in to PCGen do not get paid for doing so and therefor are a little slower for that reason. 


These are just some of the differences.


----------



## Twowolves (Feb 4, 2011)

As a DM, the ability to add class levels, templates, or additional hit dice (or all three) to any stock monster makes it a no brainer. Add to that the fact that HL has official Pathfinder support for all of the APs AND Organized Play and it's hands down the best. d20 Pro exporting is just icing on the cake.


----------



## overfiend_87 (Feb 5, 2011)

Olive said:


> So one thing that totally burned me out on D&D was the difficulty of making interesting stat blocks at higher levels: templated creatures, monsters with class levels, etc.
> 
> But Hero Labs looks like the sort of thing I would have enjoyed using and would have taken the fiddle out of it. So have you used it? Does it work well?



I bought it recently and frankly I don't know why I havn't used it earlier. It's saved me a headache on things like adding HD on creatures, adding Advanced creature template or just about any other template, not to mention if you decice to homebrew something nasty like a human 8th level fighter, vampire template and Advanced, not to mention the many other templates like Nosferatu vampire or a young type of vampire which looks like a innocent child as they were changed young, but aren't really.

High level statblocks become very easy though and there is a editing feature, but I havn't done much with it as it is kinda complex. I find it very helpful in converting NPCs from APs for people online at d20pfsrd.com


----------



## Olive (Feb 7, 2011)

Awesome guys. If I play PF I'll definitely pick it up.


----------



## neofax (Feb 13, 2011)

I use both HeroLabs and PC-Gen(caveat emptor, I create data for PC-Gen so may bias my opinion, but I don't think so).  Both are very capable character generators.  Let me break them down:

HeroLabs
Pros
Nice user interface
Supports multiple RPG systems
Export to d20Pro and MapTools
Current with Paizo's release schedule(for the most part, there are some that are missing)

Cons
Expensive(however, think of convenience and time)
Not so easy to make your own races/classes

PC-Gen
Pros
Free
Supports multiple d20 RPG systems
Export to MapTools
Data coded for Core, Bestiary I & II, APG, multiple companions and chronicles

Cons
User interface(being worked now as it is a high priority)


I use both so as to make sure my character is 100% legit as I play PFS and do not want the hassle of having to fix my character during a convention.  This also helps me fix both products and helps me learn the rules better.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Feb 13, 2011)

We will be discussing and reviewing _HeroLab_ in some depth on Episode #013 of _Chronicles: Pathfinder Podcast_. Who knows? We might even have a developer or two drop and by to chat about it, where it'e been and where it's going.

Short strokes until then? *Herolab mostly rocks*.


----------



## Liquidsabre (Feb 13, 2011)

I'm looking at picking up Hero Lab myself as several of my players have purchased it along with a few of the xpacs for Pathfinder. My question is about the secondary licenses. Is it alright to purchase say 4 more secondary licenses so that all my players can have access? This way we will be able to purchase all of the Pathfinder and other RPG content without breaking the bank?

*Edit*: Ok so I went and read the Terms of Agreement and it explicitly rules out sharing licenses with other users. Bummer. Come this next august total csot for buy-in for full Pathfinder RPG content will be $125 for Hero Lab + PF content. Not sure if I want to dive into that growing sinkhole or not. Though I am intrigued by the functionality with d20 Pro that I am also considering purchasing as well.

I would recommend Lone Wolf have discounted prices for multiple primary licenses purchases to make HL more accessible for game groups to buy into. I realize that over time older RPG content will likely be bundled together at a reduced price so that the overall cost ceiling doesn't grow too far out of reach by potential new users. Loyal users from the beginning will be paying a higher total cost comparatively, though they will have had a lot more use of the content over that time.


----------



## Nikmal (Feb 14, 2011)

Liquidsabre said:


> I'm looking at picking up Hero Lab myself as several of my players have purchased it along with a few of the xpacs for Pathfinder. My question is about the secondary licenses. Is it alright to purchase say 4 more secondary licenses so that all my players can have access? This way we will be able to purchase all of the Pathfinder and other RPG content without breaking the bank?
> 
> *Edit*: Ok so I went and read the Terms of Agreement and it explicitly rules out sharing licenses with other users. Bummer. Come this next august total csot for buy-in for full Pathfinder RPG content will be $125 for Hero Lab + PF content. Not sure if I want to dive into that growing sinkhole or not. Though I am intrigued by the functionality with d20 Pro that I am also considering purchasing as well.
> 
> I would recommend Lone Wolf have discounted prices for multiple primary licenses purchases to make HL more accessible for game groups to buy into. I realize that over time older RPG content will likely be bundled together at a reduced price so that the overall cost ceiling doesn't grow too far out of reach by potential new users. Loyal users from the beginning will be paying a higher total cost comparatively, though they will have had a lot more use of the content over that time.




While I agree that it would be nice for multiple licensing to be available for groups would be awesome I disagree that it costs 125 though. While yes it does nearly cost $100 (semantics I know), but you do not HAVE to pay for the full amount though unless you value the time vs the cost of entering manually yourself. The thing is that with the exception of the Core Rules everything else can be done via user content. Meaning that ALL of it after Core can be done by you the user. So the checks and balances come from is it worth your time to do it that way or is it worth the money to buy the expansions?


----------



## mxyzplk (Feb 15, 2011)

I use Hero Lab for Pathfinder as a GM, as does at least one player in my group (he uses it in play to roll dice and track statuses too; I just use it for prep).  It's excellent; I looked at the other electronic tools like PCGen and RPGXplorer and it is way, way better than either.

The only drawback is how they're charging for every additional bit of data.  I got the core, APG, and Bestiary and then I said "no more, sorry." It's a shame because then when there's stuff I want to incorporate that's not in the tool I tend to not use the tool, but it's just way too much (I already paid for the book and the PDF...).


----------



## jydog1 (Feb 15, 2011)

yeah, the being expected to pay for every update isn't great, but the program itself is pretty damn good and well designed.  It's terrific for examining possibilities for leveling up/magic items, as the skills or effects are added right in and let you see what you're contemplating to create.  

The printouts are easy to read and I augment them with spellcard from Perriams.


----------



## CRphoto (Feb 15, 2011)

I evaluated, then purchased Hero Labs for Pathfinder after finding this thread. I find it to be everything the WotC 4e char builder should be and more. On a related note, does anyone know of a source of templates for the Feeport Prestige Classes from the new PF Freeport companion? If that's not something that is allowed to be shared, I'd appreciate any hints on a starting point to add them to Hero Labs. (I own the Freeport book, and a licensed copy of HL)


----------



## Nikmal (Feb 16, 2011)

mxyzplk said:


> I use Hero Lab for Pathfinder as a GM, as does at least one player in my group (he uses it in play to roll dice and track statuses too; I just use it for prep).  It's excellent; I looked at the other electronic tools like PCGen and RPGXplorer and it is way, way better than either.
> 
> The only drawback is how they're charging for every additional bit of data.  I got the core, APG, and Bestiary and then I said "no more, sorry." It's a shame because then when there's stuff I want to incorporate that's not in the tool I tend to not use the tool, but it's just way too much (I already paid for the book and the PDF...).




You have to remember though that you are able to enter the crunch from the other books on your own... not to mention there are some user created files here Hero Lab - Pathfinder_OGC. The benefit you get from buying the expansion packs that you do not have yet is the time that it would take you to enter the data or waiting for someone else to do it for you is that it is already done for 5 bucks for about 5 books per pack. This is not to bad. But that my friend is up to you. 

The books themselves are useful to look things up and such but having it be part of the Hero Labs software while you are using it is extremely useful!!!!


----------



## Twowolves (Feb 16, 2011)

mxyzplk said:


> The only drawback is how they're charging for every additional bit of data.  I got the core, APG, and Bestiary and then I said "no more, sorry." It's a shame because then when there's stuff I want to incorporate that's not in the tool I tend to not use the tool, but it's just way too much (I already paid for the book and the PDF...).





Except for, say, all the AP-specific support, all the NPC statblocks from the Gamemastery Guide, the Traits and Pathfinder Society Organized Play support.....


----------



## ShinHakkaider (Feb 16, 2011)

Nikmal said:


> While I agree that it would be nice for multiple licensing to be available for groups would be awesome I disagree that it costs 125 though. While yes it does nearly cost $100 (semantics I know), but you do not HAVE to pay for the full amount though unless you value the time vs the cost of entering manually yourself. The thing is that with the exception of the Core Rules everything else can be done via user content. *Meaning that ALL of it after Core can be done by you the user. So the checks and balances come from is it worth your time to do it that way or is it worth the money to buy the expansions?*




This needed to be bolded because almost everyone who complains about the price of the add-ons seems to conveniently miss this part. 

YOU can enter the stuff in that you want YOURSELF. You dont HAVE to pay for it if you donat want to. It'll just take up YOUR time. Me? I just prefer to buy the add-ons that I want.


----------



## Zulithe (Feb 16, 2011)

This week I bought Hero Lab, the Pathfinder Ruleset and all of the currently available rules modules (using bundles where possible). I am very pleased with my purchase so far. While i primarily run Windows 7, my biggest complaint is the lack of a native Mac version. So far I've had no problems running Hero Lab through WINE... hopefully it stays that way. For any Mac users out there, I would recommend trying the demo through WINE and see if it suits you. I use Crossover but vanilla WINE should be fine, too.

You are given two licenses--one primary and one secondary--to run on multiple computers w/ all of your datasets. You can purchase additional computer 'slots' if needed (I think it's $10 for each computer after the 2nd?) Very nice for people who like to run two platforms. I mostly use my Windows 7 desktop at home for prep and research, and my Macbook when gaming at the table.

I'll concede that my second complaint is the price. It was around the quoted 125 USD previously noted. Did it save me lots of time? YES, particularly the Bestiary datasets. Was it a great value? Well, not really... especially since I already own some of this content in not just one but two formats, some of which I purchased separately, effectively having me buying some of this content 3x. It is a little annoying, and I think they should work harder on offering more discount package deals

At the end of the day though, I am happy to be supporting both Lone Wolf and Paizo. Doing my part to help ensure we see lots from both of these companies in the future.


----------



## Olive (Feb 17, 2011)

A) does it support archetypes?
B) How easy/hard is it to import your own stuff?


----------



## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 17, 2011)

It does support archetypes.

There's a learning curve for using the Editor, the main resource for creating your own house rules and stuff. That said, the ease of its use varies greatly depending on what you're trying to do.

I have a hard time being more specific than that, as some things I've thought would be quite easy to implement have been just the opposite, and some I've been sure I'd need tons of help with have been as easy as pie.

The developers and many very experienced users haunt the LoneWolf forums, though, and are extremely helpful!


----------



## Remus Lupin (Feb 17, 2011)

I love herolab. I'm just waiting for them to come across with a Mac version, so I can use it on my laptop at the table. Right now I use the windows version at home on my iMac, but I can't run two operating systems on my laptop -- not enough hard drive space.


----------



## HyrumOWC (Feb 17, 2011)

Rob Bowes, the owner of Lone Wolf has posted an update about the Mac version here:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboard...PG/licensees/heroLabSupportForMacStatusUpdate

Short version: The Mac version should be ready around summer.

Hyrum.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Dec 8, 2011)

The latest on the Mac version, according to their newsletter of last week, is that it's scheduled for a probable January release, which is good. Plus current owners can download the open beta by the end of December, which I plan to take advantage of as soon as I can.

Of course, now that I have an iPad, I REALLY want them to get cracking on that version!


----------



## IronWolf (Dec 8, 2011)

Remus Lupin said:


> The latest on the Mac version, according to their newsletter of last week, is that it's scheduled for a probable January release, which is good. Plus current owners can download the open beta by the end of December, which I plan to take advantage of as soon as I can.




Yep - looking forward to their Mac version!


----------



## ShinHakkaider (Dec 9, 2011)

IronWolf said:


> Yep - looking forward to their Mac version!




Same here. Once it comes out I can get rid of both Parallels and Windows 7 from my MacPro and get all that precious HD space back...


----------



## MarkAHart (Dec 16, 2011)

Count me in as looking forward to the Mac release as well. I very much want to get HeroLab for Pathfinder. Although my iMac is partitioned to boot either Mac OS or Windows 7, I'm going to wait until the Mac version comes out.

Hopefully soon!


----------



## Jester David (Dec 18, 2011)

I run a Homegame that's getting fairly high (currently level 12) so I was looking at this recently. Mostly for making monsters and NPCs. 
But, wow is this expensive now. 
It'd cost me over a hundred for all my books. I'd snap it up in a second if there was a newbie bundle or package deal. I hear it's awesome but I just can't justify the cost.


----------



## Mad Hamish (Dec 18, 2011)

There are some package discounts, eg. when Bestiary 3 comes out you can but B1, B2 and B3 for $29.99
It isn't cheap but it does very nicely for most things (there are a few exceptions, Synthesist isn't covered yet for example)

It's up to the individual to decide whether the cost is worth if for them. It is for me but that doesn't mean anything for the other 99.999..9% of the human race (or other humanoids using it)


----------



## IronWolf (Dec 18, 2011)

At the moment I only have the base Hero Lab package with the Pathfinder system and I've added on the APG. Even with this base amount of packages the tool has been invaluable to me for character generation or even for reviewing characters when I need to that. I've been a Hero Lab user for a long time now and will be picking up the Bestiary deal once they have the third dataset available. So the up front cost can be high, but in many cases you can spread that cost out over a longer term by only picking up the data set options you need at the moment.

Also - the data sets are pretty fairly priced. Hero Lab has the option to add in your own data. So if you do feel the data sets are not worth the cost you can add the information into the program yourself. I find the price of the packages worth it in comparison to my time to build my own data sets.

I do agree - though the cost can be spread out, as the Pathfinder system continues to grow it would be nice for them to offer a bundle offer of some type to discount the price a bit. Possibly buy the base package and then a percentage off for additional X number of packages purchased at the same time.


----------



## Agamon (Dec 18, 2011)

IronWolf said:


> At the moment I only have the base Hero Lab package with the Pathfinder system and I've added on the APG. Even with this base amount of packages the tool has been invaluable to me for character generation or even for reviewing characters when I need to that. I've been a Hero Lab user for a long time now and will be picking up the Bestiary deal once they have the third dataset available. So the up front cost can be high, but in many cases you can spread that cost out over a longer term by only picking up the data set options you need at the moment.
> 
> Also - the data sets are pretty fairly priced. Hero Lab has the option to add in your own data. So if you do feel the data sets are not worth the cost you can add the information into the program yourself. I find the price of the packages worth it in comparison to my time to build my own data sets.




I agree.  I have HL with PF, SW, 4e, and the Bestiary 1 + 2 for PF.  If I need one feat or spell or something, I have no problem adding it in.  If you want a whole book available, it's really worth it to buy it.

It was super useful in my TT games (the combat tracker is great), but even now that I'm just playing online, it's still quite helpful as a PC repository.

But I'm not sure data sets need to be made less expensive.  There's already set deals.  No one expects the PF books to go down in price just because there's so many of them.


----------



## IronWolf (Dec 18, 2011)

Agamon said:


> But I'm not sure data sets need to be made less expensive.  There's already set deals.  No one expects the PF books to go down in price just because there's so many of them.




I can see that point. Still wouldn't mind seeing more bundle pricing deals like they are going to do with the Bestiaries!


----------



## SolitonMan (Dec 19, 2011)

I'm a recent purchaser of Hero Lab and d20Pro.  I love the integration, it's truly amazing.  

On Hero Lab itself, I'm finding it an invaluable tool.  Scheduling difficulties have led me to suggest online gaming to my group, and with Hero Lab I'm able to manage their characters completely and efficiently.  One of the players made a wizard with the Spellslinger archetype and HL supported it easily. 

I bought Hero Lab for Pathfinder and did make the decision to buy all the extra content available.  It was expensive, I probably laid out close to $150 to get everything.  But I've not been at all disappointed, all of the cool features of HL make prep a breeze.

With how busy life gets these days, it's amazingly convenient to have a tool (or set of tools) that enable quick, easy and FUN play!    Though I've owned it about a month at the time I'm writing this, I feel Hero Lab is one of my best choices in gaming purchases over the last few years.


----------

