# About the new EN World front page - I LOVE IT!



## jaerdaph (Jan 8, 2009)

Very nice, Morrus.


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

Well, I've only just started.  it's likely to change a lot over the next two weeks.  I just wanted a starting block in place.


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## JRRNeiklot (Jan 8, 2009)

Ug, bring back the old style, please, that red on black boxed stuff is about the ugliest thing I've ever seen.


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 8, 2009)

I like black and red but that is a harsh contrast. 

I also prefer haveing the news on the front page rather than the link.


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

Darkwolf71 said:


> I like black and red but that is a harsh contrast.
> 
> I also prefer haveing the news on the front page rather than the link.




You're not contractually obligated to make your bookmark that page, you know!  You're allowed to bookmark the news page instead.  I promise not to come round your house and tell you off!


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## Blackrat (Jan 8, 2009)

I agree with the guys, I liked it better the way it was about an hour or two ago.

Then again. I rarely visit the frontpage anyways since I have the Forum itself bookmarked, so you can pretty much disregard my opinion


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## Arnwyn (Jan 8, 2009)

No more marking which articles on WotC's site are subscription and which aren't?


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## TerraDave (Jan 8, 2009)

I also like the news upfront. And bookmark, what is that?


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

Arnwyn said:


> No more marking which articles on WotC's site are subscription and which aren't?




It's not a policy, I just didn't have time today what with the dog, and helping a friend with his PC, and a bunch of shopping.


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## hafrogman (Jan 8, 2009)

Blackrat said:


> Then again. I rarely visit the frontpage anyways since I have the Forum itself bookmarked, so you can pretty much disregard my opinion



There's a front page?!


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 8, 2009)

Morrus said:


> You're not contractually obligated to make your bookmark that page, you know!  You're allowed to bookmark the news page instead.  I promise not to come round your house and tell you off!



Ah, but then I would miss out on all the handy links. 

Besides I have a personality flaw quirk that does in fact, require me to bookmark the 'front' page.  There are very very few exceptions to this. Sad, I know.


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## Nebten (Jan 8, 2009)

Yah, not a fan of the new front page. It scares me to the point where I have to resist crawling up into a ball and sucking my thumb =v). I liked the news being the first thing you see when you go to the page. It gives you a chance to see what is going on currently when you first arrive.
This feels much like a newspaper. The big stories are on the front page. You scan that to see if there is anything there that interests you. If not, you then skip to the sports and/or comics (forums and WotBS page =v)


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## Sammael (Jan 8, 2009)

Different strokes for different people, I guess - I love the new front page. I stopped reading the news a while ago (since most are now 4E related, and I have zero interest in that), and the categories are very handy and logically organized.


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## fba827 (Jan 8, 2009)

Somewhat related -- the new News page (EN World D&D / RPG News <if>- </if>) has a wierd tag fragment in the title bar - it has an if /if after the title


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

I've blatantly stole some images (and bandwidth) from google to get a vague idea of how it'd look with pics there.  Obviously, I can't use those permanently, but it helps give a sense.


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 8, 2009)

That looks pretty nice. Will you be adding the search cloud to the front page again?


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## Marius Delphus (Jan 8, 2009)

I hate to bring this up, since it's a minor thing, but it's been bugging me for a while...

Shouldn't it be "premier"?

Otherwise, I think the front page is coming along nicely. I hope you can find a "cohesive" set of images and my vote is for a darker grey in the panels so they'll "pop" more.


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

Marius Delphus said:


> I hate to bring this up, since it's a minor thing, but it's been bugging me for a while...
> 
> Shouldn't it be "premier"?




You're the first person ever to mention that.  The premiere mentioning of the error, in fact!

You are correct.  Doh!



> I hope you can find a "cohesive" set of images




I imagine I'll have to get some specially made, unfortunately.


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## WhatGravitas (Jan 8, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I imagine I'll have to get some specially made, unfortunately.



Do you mind if I take a stab at it over the weekend?

Cheers, LT.


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

Lord Tirian said:


> Do you mind if I take a stab at it over the weekend?
> 
> Cheers, LT.




Of course not!  I don't promise to use 'em, though - but I'll keep my fingers crossed that I'll like 'em! 

Saves me having to go wth Plan A, which was to pay someone to do a bunch of fantasty cartoon style drawings for them.


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## Simplicity (Jan 8, 2009)

...  I hate the change.  

The front news page served as a kind of community trough for the site, and now the front page has become completely useless.  I may as well skip it entirely.  But because I typically spend more time on the forums than reading the news, I probably will not bother going to the news page at all.  I suspect a lot of people will feel the same way.

Take the news page away, and all of the news will wind up being in forum format because that's where the community is going to be.  The news page will disappear.


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

Simplicity said:


> ...  I hate the change.
> 
> The front news page served as a kind of community trough for the site, and now the front page has become completely useless.  I may as well skip it entirely.  But because I typically spend more time on the forums than reading the news, I probably will not bother going to the news page at all.  I suspect a lot of people will feel the same way.




The news page is still there.

The reason the splash page appeared was because the software I'm using to automate the news page_ had_ to be called index.php.  The existing front page was called index.html.  Now, I could have just deleted index.html and hoped that those who had bookmarked it directly figured it out when they got a "Page Not Found" error, but I thought it best to have _something_ there, lest they just think EN World has gone.

Sure, I could have just put "The front page has moved - click here for the new one", which serves exactly the same function as the one I've put there now.  I can't imagine people would say "Hey I like_ that _page!" either.

So there has to be an index.html.  No choice in the matter.  So what goes on it?  Either nothing, or something.  So I put some links on it.


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## hafrogman (Jan 8, 2009)

Having taken a look at it, I kind of like it actually.

Not for any of us, I expect; long time users will just bookmark the news or forums or whatever they use most.  But for first time visitors to the site, it gives a nice overview of all the different features, and an explanation to go with them.

If you do have to buy art, you should totally see if you can find the guy who made these.

Oh, and I'm getting a broken image link off "Account Stuff".


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## Morrus (Jan 8, 2009)

hafrogman said:


> Not for any of us, I expect; long time users will just bookmark the news or forums or whatever they use most.  But for first time visitors to the site, it gives a nice overview of all the different features, and an explanation to go with them.




That's pretty much my thinking.  I can watch the traffic over the next few days to see if that's the case.


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## freyar (Jan 9, 2009)

I like it!  Very functional.  (And thanks for the link to the storefront.)


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## LightPhoenix (Jan 9, 2009)

[EDIT] NOT a Big Issue: Visiting some of the links logged me off.  I'll do more research. Nevermind, must have been a problem on my end.

Short version: I like it.

Longer version: I think this is a lot less cluttered than the old-new front page, while allowing everything that you want on the front page to be there.  The lack of news on the front page is not optimal, but on the other hand the new News page is a lot easier to read without the clutter.  I agree with the sentiment that most people either bookmark the forums and get news there, or will just bookmark the news page.

I'm not sure if it's my system (Firefox 3.0.5, Win XP SP3) but the boxes on the front page are not the same size horizontally.  I think it's due to the GSG and WotBS boxes, which have longer titles.  I only mention this because the News box, while in the most prominent position, is also the smallest.  Also, as a personal style thing, I think the grey boxes are a little too bright.  I think if they are a little darker it will provide ample contrast with the background as well as providing more contrast for the text.

Regarding the News page, fba827 already mentioned the "if" in the title.  I don't know how much work it is, but I'd love to see the news a little more categorized.  Basically, I mean taking the articles and putting them in headings like you already do with the Official D&D Updates.  It makes it easier to scan the page looking for the news I'm interested in.  For example, if I only play Pathfinder, I can scan for the category that would include it (OGL?).  Similarly for if I'm interested in Miniatures, or CCGs, or General RPG Articles (drawing from the most recent news box).  Now that I type it out though, it seems like a bit more work than might be worth it.


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## Plane Sailing (Jan 9, 2009)

Morrus said:


> The news page is still there.
> 
> The reason the splash page appeared was because the software I'm using to automate the news page_ had_ to be called index.php.  The existing front page was called index.html.  Now, I could have just deleted index.html and hoped that those who had bookmarked it directly figured it out when they got a "Page Not Found" error, but I thought it best to have _something_ there, lest they just think EN World has gone.
> 
> ...




FWIW, it would be possible to tell apache to look for index.php first and index.html second, thus allowing you to keep index.php for the main news page without breaking those who have index.html bookmarked.

So there isn't a technological issue that means you have to have the html version of the front page (although I can understand that they may be other reasons why you'd like to).

Cheers


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## Morrus (Jan 9, 2009)

Plane Sailing said:


> FWIW, it would be possible to tell apache to look for index.php first and index.html second, thus allowing you to keep index.php for the main news page without breaking those who have index.html bookmarked.
> 
> So there isn't a technological issue that means you have to have the html version of the front page (although I can understand that they may be other reasons why you'd like to).
> 
> Cheers




No, you misunderstand me.  Many people have bookmarked EN World - D&D / Dungeons & Dragons / RPGs, not www.enworld.org.


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## Merkuri (Jan 9, 2009)

Plane Sailing said:


> FWIW, it would be possible to tell apache to look for index.php first and index.html second, thus allowing you to keep index.php for the main news page without breaking those who have index.html bookmarked.




Or you could put a redirect on index.html that sends you to index.php (or both).


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## jaerdaph (Jan 9, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Well, I've only just started.  it's likely to change a lot over the next two weeks.  I just wanted a starting block in place.




I see that - and I'm still lovin' it.


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## TerraDave (Jan 9, 2009)

It looks better...I guess the question is it a static "about" page, or something updated regularly (with news in this case). 

I also guess I get the whole bookmark, compiler, technical discussion, but am not 100% sure that should drive what happens when people go to -www.enworld.org-


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## JRRNeiklot (Jan 9, 2009)

Yeah, it looks much better now.  I still prefer the old format, but that red on black crap...yech!


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## Wasgo (Jan 9, 2009)

I really don't like it. It looks like someone's GeoCities pages from the mid-nineties. I don't understand why the main page wouldn't include the news. I can understand how many people directly bookmark the forums, but if they're not going straight to the forum, the news is the thing they'd be logically coming here for. Why make them click through a pointless boxy page?


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## Morrus (Jan 9, 2009)

Wasgo said:


> I really don't like it. It looks like someone's GeoCities pages from the mid-nineties. I don't understand why the main page wouldn't include the news. I can understand how many people directly bookmark the forums, but if they're not going straight to the forum, the news is the thing they'd be logically coming here for. Why make them click through a pointless boxy page?




See this post for the explanation.


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## Plane Sailing (Jan 9, 2009)

Morrus said:


> No, you misunderstand me.  Many people have bookmarked www.enworld.org/index.html, not www.enworld.org.




No, you misunderstand me!

The technical issue is this:

you could have index.html as you have it now (for those who have bookmarked www.enworld.org/index.html) and yet set index.php as the default page so that people coming to plain old www.enworld.org get the index.php page.

Now it may be that you want everyone coming to the plain www.enworld.org page to get the grid based introduction page, in which case it isn't an issue - but that isn't what you said in the post I quoted.

So, to summarise - at the moment the apache server is set to give priority to index.html pages over index.php pages when a browser request doesn't include the exact url of the page, but just a generic url. It is a change to a setting to alter the priority, so that the apache server gives priority to index.php pages when both are available. This would mean that most people would see the index.php page, but anyone who had bookmarked index.html would get the index.html page.

Cheers


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## Mistwell (Jan 9, 2009)

I think the front page does not look good.  It lacks focus.  It lacks prioritization.  

EnWorld is essentially an online RPG magazine and RPG user communication tool.  Almost all things that are important to the site fall into one of those two categories. The front page should reflect that focus.  How to contact the owners, or messing with your account settings, should not get as much screen real estate as things like news.

Your front page is the most important tool you have to push new users to your most important content.  This front page...does not do that.


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## Wasgo (Jan 9, 2009)

Morrus said:


> See this post for the explanation.






Plane Sailing said:


> you could have index.html as you have it now (for those who have bookmarked EN World - D&D / Dungeons & Dragons / RPGs) and yet set index.php as the default page so that people coming to plain old EN World - D&D / Dungeons & Dragons / RPGs get the index.php page.
> 
> Now it may be that you want everyone coming to the plain EN World - D&D / Dungeons & Dragons / RPGs page to get the grid based introduction page, in which case it isn't an issue - but that isn't what you said in the post I quoted.




Exactly. I understand the technical limitations, but I'd prefer http://www.enworld. org to go to http://www.enworld. org/index.php. Also, can't you just do a server-side redirect so that http://www.enworld. org/index.html goes to http://www.enworld. org/index.php? That way the bookmarks would work, but there would only be one main page.


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## Oni (Jan 9, 2009)

Not to poo-poo your hard work, but I'm not digging the layout/look.


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## Morrus (Jan 10, 2009)

Mistwell said:


> I think the front page does not look good.  It lacks focus.  It lacks prioritization.
> 
> EnWorld is essentially an online RPG magazine and RPG user communication tool.  Almost all things that are important to the site fall into one of those two categories. The front page should reflect that focus.  How to contact the owners, or messing with your account settings, should not get as much screen real estate as things like news.
> 
> Your front page is the most important tool you have to push new users to your most important content.  This front page...does not do that.




That depends on what you judge as the "most important content"; which isn't, necessarily, "the bits _you_ read".

Back in the day, sure, we had a news page and a rudimentary messageboard with 4000 members or so (by comparison: not much larger than CM is now).  Nowadays, EN World is much, much more than that.  It has 80,000 members, and those members are writing reviews, making blogs, joining groups, searching for gaming groups, and all sorts of things.  These things, while more recent, are not _less important_ than the news page.

In fact, given the deficit of interesting news these days (the buildup to 4E was fun, but it's over), I'd argue that those other aspects are more important.

And I'm not talking about my general opinion: I use Google Analytics to analyse site traffic.  And some of those post-medieval elements of a modern community website do -  believe it or not - generate high levels of traffic.

The days of thinking "news page plus a forum" ended years ago.  It's 2009!


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## Morrus (Jan 10, 2009)

This may be of interest: overall traffic since the new front page went live.  It appears - thus far - to be serving its purpose very well.


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## Mistwell (Jan 10, 2009)

Morrus said:


> That depends on what you judge as the "most important content"; which isn't, necessarily, "the bits _you_ read".
> 
> Back in the day, sure, we had a news page and a rudimentary messageboard with 4000 members or so (by comparison: not much larger than CM is now).  Nowadays, EN World is much, much more than that.  It has 80,000 members, and those members are writing reviews, making blogs, joining groups, searching for gaming groups, and all sorts of things.  These things, while more recent, are not _less important_ than the news page.
> 
> ...




Whatever it is you think your site is about, pick one or two things and focus on those things.  I don't care what those things are, it needs to be focused.  You can not focus on everything at once at expect to be known for anything.  

If you feel news is not in the top two, then don't focus on news on the front page.  Me, I figured you were going the magazine route and were hoping to some day pay reporters and cover panels at cons and write articles and develop company sources for those articles and develop into a magazine site, which is why I mentioned news.  That is the route that comicbookresources.com took, and now they are making a ton of money in advertising.  

But, if you are not going that route, fair enough.  But, you should pick a route of some kind, and do that thing.  This scattergun approach isn't a good one.  You should have links to it all on your front page, but the focus should not be on all of it at once, if you want the site to grow and prosper more than it is now (which I assume is the goal).


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## Morrus (Jan 10, 2009)

With all due respect, Mistwell, you've advised the "copy my favourite site, Comic Book Resources" strategy more than once in the past.  Unfortunately, *I can't*. You may as well tell a small software company to copy Microsoft, or the Nigerian government to devlop a military to defeat Russia. 

_I don't have the resources or the technical know-how_; I can't afford to pay people; and volunteers always crap out halfway through leaving you in a worse state than when you started.  The D&D world doesn't have a fraction of the breadth of news that the comic book industry does; it's not even comparable.  DC and Maarvel produce dozens of comics per week; WotC produces 1 book every month or so at best. 

So modelling EN World after CBR isn't an option, attractive though that might be (and yes, I agree CBR is very well done).  EN World will never be CBR.  Sorry.

Anyway, in the short term, traffic has increased.  We'll see how that works out over a longer period.  All the random opinions are interesting, but the stats tell the truth.


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## WhatGravitas (Jan 12, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Of course not!  I don't promise to use 'em, though - but I'll keep my fingers crossed that I'll like 'em!



By the way, I'm still on it... but there are a lot of buttons and getting something that looks consistent is hard, especially as I am not the greatest artist.

Well, I hope that your commission turns up something good faster than I do. 

Cheers, LT.


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## Morrus (Jan 12, 2009)

Lord Tirian said:


> By the way, I'm still on it... but there are a lot of buttons and getting something that looks consistent is hard, especially as I am not the greatest artist.
> 
> Well, I hope that your commission turns up something good faster than I do.
> 
> Cheers, LT.




Cool.  I don't actually have a commission - I put some feelers out, but that's about it so far.

When you do your first button, why not post it here?  That way we can see what direction you're going in?


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