# The Walking Dead 2.13 - Besides the Dying Fire (season finale - SPOILERS)



## NewJeffCT (Mar 18, 2012)

Opening this up early today because I'll be gone for part of the day and likely rushing about when I am home.  Yes, I know it's 13+ hours to the Farmageddon finale.

My guess is that most of Hershel's family, plus T-Dog, will not survive the hour. I think Hershel & Maggie make it out, with Rick, Carl, Glen, Daryl, Carol & Lori.  The farm will be wrecked/destroyed in the process of fighting & escaping.

Not sure if the spoiler is true or not, but (swipe away)


Spoiler



heard from a few online sources that Michonne shows up towards the end and saves Andrea. Michonne is the katana wielding African American woman who is a fan favorite from the comics.


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## Bungus (Mar 18, 2012)

Hershel and Lori die.  Both are too annoying to live.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

Some observations:

1) Worst. BBQ. Ever.

2) The Butterfly Effect, ZA style.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 19, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Some observations:
> 
> 1) Worst. BBQ. Ever.
> 
> 2) The Butterfly Effect, ZA style.




I thought it was a good scene with the flaming barn collapsing as they left the farm.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

I agree completely!

...but I'm here in TX, where every few days, someone in the neighborhood BBQs _something_, so we get the aroma of wood & cooking critter wafting deliciously around...

Now...think about that with Walker flesh on fire.

_*ewwwwwww*_


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

Now I've seen the whole episode:

1) Everyone is turning into a damn good shot.

2) I'm sorry, but to my eye, the Hooded One's appearance (with "entourage") screamed "COMIC BOOK!" to me, and not in a good way.*

3) Nice horde/herd!








* Yes, I know the TV show is based on a comic book, and this is one of the characters from it.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 19, 2012)

Good that they killed off some of the minor characters who weren't being used much anyway. And the whole burning and escape was very cinematic.

They really keep making Rick look better and making his wife look worse.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 19, 2012)

Confirmed everyone is a carrier.  
Showed the Prison for season 3. 

I think it hit Rick that his wife does not love him.  Kind of interesting that now Shane is dead, he tells the rest of the group, that if they don't like him they can try on their own.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 19, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> 2) I'm sorry, but to my eye, the Hooded One's appearance (with "entourage") screamed "COMIC BOOK!" to me, and not in a good way.*




It's Aragorn!

just kidding - it's just Michonne.  Robert Kirkman announced that Michonne will be played by Danai Gurira, of Treme.

I'm interested in finding out how Michonne got into the woods where she could save Andrea... in the comics, her entrance wasn't that dramatic, if I recall.  (well, other than trailing two "pet" walkers)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

Yeah...not liking the "pets."

Except in _Shaun_, I never cared much for "trainable" zombies.  Even armless & shackled- even jawless- those things should have been physically on her TRYING to get a nosh.


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## Krug (Mar 19, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Now I've seen the whole episode:
> 
> 1) Everyone is turning into a damn good shot.
> 
> ...




Well at least she didn't look like she carried a katana around..

That said it wasn't too bad an episode, though Lori's flip-flop about Shane is kinda.. urgh woman didn't you want him to be dead earlier?


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## Kzach (Mar 19, 2012)

I'm SO happy that Rick finally found his balls. I would go into the details of why I think democracy is a sham and unworkable but the last time I did that, I got into trouble for saying that people are too dumb to make intelligent decisions to save themselves and need to be led; so I won't be saying that again!


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## RangerWickett (Mar 19, 2012)

I'm pretty sure the cast camped out at High Falls State Park. I've hiked there. No, there's not a prison just across the lake, but there is a pretty awesome waterfall (that was bone dry when I went), and a gas station with really good beef jerky.

It does strain credulity a bit that Michonne didn't have to run up to get Andrea's walker. Better if she'd attacked from behind Andrea's shoulder or something, or if Andrea had been heading toward a shed for safety.

Still, aside from that and the splendid marksmanship of the PCs, tonight's session was top notch.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

> dalen2000
> has no status.
> 
> Registered User
> ...



Reported


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 19, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> I'm pretty sure the cast camped out at High Falls State Park. I've hiked there. No, there's not a prison just across the lake, but there is a pretty awesome waterfall (that was bone dry when I went), and a gas station with really good beef jerky.
> 
> It does strain credulity a bit that Michonne didn't have to run up to get Andrea's walker. Better if she'd attacked from behind Andrea's shoulder or something, or if Andrea had been heading toward a shed for safety.
> 
> Still, aside from that and the splendid marksmanship of the PCs, tonight's session was top notch.




The walkers that are chained to her have no arms and no jaws/teeth.  Also, she keeps them close to her so she can move through groups of walkers and not be detected - sort of like how Rick & Glen covered themselves in zombie guts in season 1, or how they've pulled the bodies of freshly killed walkers on top of them for camouflage.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

Using rotting guts to pass through zombies makes sense.

Using tethered zombies to pass through zombies makes ZERO sense.  We've seen their "herding instinct", for one.  Besides that, even sans arms & jaws, they'd still try to attack, they'd still crowd her physically...and as a human who is at this very moment tethered to a puppy while typing on a mobile device, I can attest that my movement is impaired.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 19, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Using rotting guts to pass through zombies makes sense.
> 
> Using tethered zombies to pass through zombies makes ZERO sense.  We've seen their "herding instinct", for one.  Besides that, even sans arms & jaws, they'd still try to attack, they'd still crowd her physically...and as a human who is at this very moment tethered to a puppy while typing on a mobile device, I can attest that my movement is impaired.




Well, we only see Michonne in that one scene on the TV show, so we don't know how much of a struggle it's been for her to move about before coming across Andrea. ( I kept expecting her to say, "come with me if you want to live" a al Arnold in Terminator 2.)

In the comics, the two "chained" walkers 



Spoiler



are almost immediately executed, but I'm also pretty sure there was no rescue of anybody in Michonne's introduction.



I'll wait till October to see if they give us anything more in depth on how she got where she is.


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## Mark CMG (Mar 19, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> In the comics, the two "chained" walkers are almost immediately executed, but I'm also pretty sure there was no rescue of anybody in Michonne's introduction.





That probably could have used spoiler tags.   Probably true of anything that wasn't revealed in the episode but that might come in the next season due to being in the print version.


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## Spatula (Mar 19, 2012)

Yeah, some spoiler tags would be nice for those of us that haven't read the comic.

Good episode, I thought, although I too noted how it seemed like everyone had suddenly become master marksmen. The only thing that bugged me (aside from what is the purpose of having zombie "pets") is, who the heck was the kid in the camper that got eaten while rescuing Rick & Carl? I guess he was one of the people on the farm, but I don't recall ever seeing him before the scene of him getting eaten.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

"Jimmy"


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 19, 2012)

He was in a few scenes, and he was the subject of the conversation between Maggie and her sister. She was complaining that she felt stuck with Jimmy because they just happened to be dating when the zombpocalypse took place. I guess she doesn't need to worry about that any more.


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## Kzach (Mar 19, 2012)

On the 'master marksman' thing, I thought they showed Glen missing a few times. It was only Andrea who had gone from "I can't hit the side of a barn!" to "I'm a Gun-Ninja! Yo!" in a week or so. I expect Hershel and Rick and Daryl to be good shots but then even an excellent shot, someone who has trained for years, is not going to be hitting head shots at those ranges, whilst running and dodging zombies so the whole marksman thing is a bit of a stretch.


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## Oryan77 (Mar 19, 2012)

I know it may sound silly, but from a directing perspective, showing people missing their shots over & over in a TV show is actually going to take away air time from the show itself. Every second matters in film & especially TV when you have to fit it in a 30 minute, 1 hour, 1.5 hour, etc, etc, time frame.

It will also require extra filming and camera work. Meaning, it uses up time & money just to be more realistic when eventually, they are going to kill the zombie anyway. Showing missed shots will require a few extra camera changes and special FX.

It's just easier to show the kill shot immediately rather than showing, "miss, miss, hit....miss, miss, miss, hit....miss, hit.....miss, miss, miss, hit...".

The marksman thing doesn't bother me. It's really only good to show a missed shot in film when it will build suspense for that scene.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 19, 2012)

Oryan77 said:


> I know it may sound silly, but from a directing perspective, showing people missing their shots over & over in a TV show is actually going to take away air time from the show itself. Every second matters in film & especially TV when you have to fit it in a 30 minute, 1 hour, 1.5 hour, etc, etc, time frame.




Good point. It did break my willing suspension of disbelief, but it's a tough problem to solve in the medium.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2012)

There are ways to do it, though.

For instance, misses don't have to be complete misses- some could have been something other than head shots.  To my (flawed, human) memory, it seemed as if every shot Glen made across the roof of the bouncing Hyundai SUV was A perfect head shot.

They actually did use one other technique, in all fairness: we didn't see the result of every shot Herschel made.

And besides...we see missed shots all the time in TV.  Look at any shoot out in a cop show or western.  Movies aren't the only productions with a big squib budget.


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## Rabulias (Mar 19, 2012)

Krug said:


> Well at least she didn't look like she carried a katana around..




Maybe you're being sarcastic, but Michonne did have a katana in her brief scene... In fact she used it to save Andrea.


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## Oryan77 (Mar 19, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> There are ways to do it, though.
> 
> For instance, misses don't have to be complete misses- some could have been something other than head shots.




If the zombie doesn't need to be killed (i.e., the living are just trying to flee), then a shoulder hit or something would help with the "perfect marksman" problem.

But if they need the zombie to die (i.e., it is about to bite someone), then you still need to show a head shot. So for every shoulder hit or complete miss, that is extra seconds and money being used up to build up to the eventual head shot.

Still, they seem to show a lot of head shots when there isn't a reason for the hit to be a head shot. Like when they are just driving away in a car and shooting at zombies as they pass by. I just mentioned this for people that don't think about production issues when they watch a film. Maybe it would help the show be less annoying to them.


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## Krug (Mar 19, 2012)

Rabulias said:


> Maybe you're being sarcastic, but Michonne did have a katana in her brief scene... In fact she used it to save Andrea.




I thought it was just a parang or big knife, but can't say I got a good look.
-shrug-


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## Richards (Mar 20, 2012)

I loved how Lori flinched away from Rick after he told her about killing Shane.  She might as well have said, "How dare you kill my boyfriend who was plotting your murder!"

Lori has to go.  I'm hoping she's next on the zombie appetizer plate.

Johnathan


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## Fast Learner (Mar 20, 2012)

In her semi-defense -- and mind you, she has been nastily duplicitous, so I dislike her character, too -- Rick had just told her "I killed the father of the baby in your womb." No matter how the situation came to be (almost), those are rarely words anyone would want to hear.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Richards said:


> I loved how Lori flinched away from Rick after he told her about killing Shane.  She might as well have said, "How dare you kill my boyfriend who was plotting your murder!"
> 
> Lori has to go.  I'm hoping she's next on the zombie appetizer plate.
> 
> Johnathan




I am not a fan of Lori, but I thought she recoiled from Rick after he said that it was Carl that killed zombie Shane, since she had made it clear that she didn't want Carl handling a gun...


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 20, 2012)

Make me wonder what Andrea will say, if anything, about Shane's comment about "if Rick was not in charge" a couple of shows back.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> That probably could have used spoiler tags.   Probably true of anything that wasn't revealed in the episode but that might come in the next season due to being in the print version.




I added the spoiler tags, but they've deviated enough from the comics where I don't think mentioning something like that makes a big difference - especially when you consider that Sophia & Dale are still alive at this point in the comics and the group had been joined by Tyreese, Tyreese's daughter Julie and her boyfriend Chris before Hershel's farm.  Plus, there was no Daryl, Merle or T-Dog in the comics.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Remus Lupin said:


> He was in a few scenes, and he was the subject of the conversation between Maggie and her sister. She was complaining that she felt stuck with Jimmy because they just happened to be dating when the zombpocalypse took place. I guess she doesn't need to worry about that any more.




He was also seen the previous episode hammering some boards onto the windows of the house.


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## Spatula (Mar 20, 2012)

Yeah, I think she would have gotten over Rick defending himself against a homicidal Shane. But having your little boy shoot the zombie of his "uncle", that's just horrifying (and another fine example of nobody keeping an eye on the damn kid!).


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## Mark CMG (Mar 20, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> I added the spoiler tags, but they've deviated enough from the comics where I don't think mentioning something like that makes a big difference - especially when you consider that Sophia & Dale are still alive at this point in the comics and the group had been joined by Tyreese, Tyreese's daughter Julie and her boyfriend Chris before Hershel's farm.  Plus, there was no Daryl, Merle or T-Dog in the comics.





Thanks.  It does sound significantly different.  How long is the run of the comic (and is it still going)?  Which do you like better?


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## Rabulias (Mar 20, 2012)

The comic is still going, I think 94 is the latest issue.

As others have indicated, the TV plotline has diverged significantly from the comic's in some ways, but they have mostly followed it. The prison we saw at the end of this episode showed up at the end of issue 12, for example. Michonne shows up around issue 20. Even though the stories are a bit different, the TV show has really only tapped the first 20% or so of the comic. There's still tons of stories to be mined for the TV show!


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## Mark CMG (Mar 20, 2012)

Rabulias said:


> The comic is still going, I think 94 is the latest issue.
> 
> As others have indicated, the TV plotline has diverged significantly from the comic's in some ways, but they have mostly followed it. The prison we saw at the end of this episode showed up at the end of issue 12, for example. Michonne shows up around issue 20. Even though the stories are a bit different, the TV show has really only tapped the first 20% or so of the comic. There's still tons of stories to be mined for the TV show!





Thanks.  I've been afraid to search online and risk reading something I'd rather not know in advance of the show revealing it.


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## Kzach (Mar 20, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> Thanks.  I've been afraid to search online and risk reading something I'd rather not know in advance of the show revealing it.




Don't worry. If you're lucky then someone will PM you a spoiler like they did for me and Mass Effect 3.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 20, 2012)

Well, again, not defending Lori (who was playing low-rent Lady McBeth just a few episodes ago), what Rick actually said was pretty brutal: "I knew what Shane was up to, but I let him do it because I just wanted it to end, so I let him lure me away from camp, threaten me, and then I killed him in cold blood." Lori's reaction was her "Out, Damn spot!" moment.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> Thanks.  It does sound significantly different.  How long is the run of the comic (and is it still going)?  Which do you like better?




The comic did not spend as much "down" time on the farm, so didn't have that loss of intensity like the TV show did the first half of Season 2.  It was one "holy $h!#!!" moment after another in the beginning.  I think some of the stuff from the comic probably cannot be shown on TV, though, as it might be too graphic and too dark.


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## Umbran (Mar 20, 2012)

Spatula said:


> But having your little boy shoot the zombie of his "uncle", that's just horrifying (and another fine example of nobody keeping an eye on the damn kid!).




A fine example, except when you consider how Rick would be dead, munched on by Zombie Shane, if the kid weren't there!

Running out alone in the ZA is a bad idea, except when it saves people's lives. 

But, maybe they'll use one of the chains from Michonne's pets on Carl.  That'd fix the wandering...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 20, 2012)

Well, they're near a prison- maybe they can find one of those taser vests/belts/harnesses some jurisdictions use when transferring prisoners.  Wander off and _**tzzzzzap*!*_


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 20, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> The comic did not spend as much "down" time on the farm, so didn't have that loss of intensity like the TV show did the first half of Season 2.  It was one "holy !#!!" moment after another in the beginning.  I think some of the stuff from the comic probably cannot be shown on TV, though, as it might be too graphic and too dark.




I hear that. There was a point after the introduction of the Governor where I simply couldn't continue reading the comic. I felt Kirkman just took things a bit too far.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Well, they're near a prison- maybe they can find one of those taser vests/belts/harnesses some jurisdictions use when transferring prisoners.  Wander off and _**tzzzzzap*!*_




speaking of vests/belts/harnesses.  Way back in Season 1, episode 1, Rick, Morgan & Duane went back into the police station and they were able to procure a ton of ammo, as well as a bunch of guns.  There were no bullet proof vests around, or any other sort of body armor?  Wouldn't that be kind of useful against zombies ripping you open?


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 20, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> speaking of vests/belts/harnesses.  Way back in Season 1, episode 1, Rick, Morgan & Duane went back into the police station and they were able to procure a ton of ammo, as well as a bunch of guns.  There were no bullet proof vests around, or any other sort of body armor?  Wouldn't that be kind of useful against zombies ripping you open?




A Dickey jumpsuit, fireman outfit...there are a number of items that are tough enough to prevent zombies from biting and ripping you open.


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## Umbran (Mar 20, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Well, they're near a prison- maybe they can find one of those taser vests/belts/harnesses some jurisdictions use when transferring prisoners.  Wander off and _**tzzzzzap*!*_




Charging the capacitors might be a bit tricky.  But hey, jail cells!  Not much better for keeping him from wandering off, is there?



Hand of Evil said:


> A Dickey jumpsuit, fireman outfit...there are a number of items that are tough enough to prevent zombies from biting and ripping you open.




In a Georgia summer, you can't go around wearing most of those forms of armor 24/7, unless you want to die of heat stroke.  And, under current conditions, that means they'd come back as an *armored* zombie.  What fun!

Also, the effectiveness of armor really depends on the strength of the Walkers.  I mean, humans use knives and swords and such because we're actually pretty lousy at ripping things apart with our bear hands.  The Walkers, then, would seem to be substantially stronger than a normal person.


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## TanisFrey (Mar 20, 2012)

Bullet proof vests are designed to protect against bullets and are protect poorly against knives and the like unless you use plates like the military does.  Unless the police department the vests are worried about knife attacks the vests obtained will only slow the walker down a little.  Maybe enough the Hersal might have saved Dale.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Umbran said:


> Charging the capacitors might be a bit tricky.  But hey, jail cells!  Not much better for keeping him from wandering off, is there?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




In watching Deadliest Warrior, the final episode last year had Vampires vs Zombies and they had indicated that since zombies don't have pain receptors anymore, they're not inhibited by normal human restraints so can often be stronger than humans.  (Of course, if they're not inhibited, they're also more likely to suffer breaks, dislocations, etc, which would weaken them.  Heck, I'm guessing several zombies suffered some injury pouring over that fence last week)

Deadliest Warrior is normally a show that pits two historical figures against each other and does a lot of scientific analysis of their weapons & tactics.  This was a radical departure for them.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 20, 2012)

Over at CircvsMaximvs, someone pointed out that if Lori had gotten herself killed in that car accident, we'd be down one manipulative whiner, and up one marksman ex-cop. And Carl would probably have learned a lesson about not wandering off and getting yourself killed.


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## Mark CMG (Mar 20, 2012)

What exactly is the difference between the fingernails of a walker and that of a regular person that makes it so they can tear into a stomach so easily?


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## Spatula (Mar 20, 2012)

RangerWickett said:


> Over at CircvsMaximvs, someone pointed out that if Lori had gotten herself killed in that car accident, we'd be down one manipulative whiner, and up one marksman ex-cop. And Carl would probably have learned a lesson about not wandering off and getting yourself killed.



Eh, I don't see how removing Lori somehow corrects the collision course that Rick and Shane were on. They both wanted to be the boss, they both thought they were the only one who could lead the group and have it survive. And Shane was willing to murder his best friend to get his way. The best possible outcome would have been for one of them to leave on his own. I don't see how they could coexist otherwise.


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## Umbran (Mar 20, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> What exactly is the difference between the fingernails of a walker and that of a regular person that makes it so they can tear into a stomach so easily?




Um... no-prize style?  We know that human hair and nails will continue to grow for a period after death.  Perhaps it is even moreso for zombies?

Human mouths are actually pretty bad at ripping flesh straight off a body, too (no muzzle).  I wonder how walkers manage that, too...



Spatula said:


> Eh, I don't see how removing Lori somehow corrects the collision course that Rick and Shane were on. They both wanted to be the boss, they both thought they were the only one who could lead the group and have it survive.




A significant portion (not all, but a goodly chunk) of Shane's motivation for that was Lori.  It is not unreasonable to think their head-butting would have dropped to a low simmer if she died.

Of course, low simmers don't make for exciting television.  Much like having kids actually stay safe and sound, and having humans always make intelligent, well-informed decisions.


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## Deset Gled (Mar 20, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> What exactly is the difference between the fingernails of a walker and that of a regular person that makes it so they can tear into a stomach so easily?




Well, in some cases it would be the finger bones of the walker, which might tear a bit better than fingernails.

The other big effect is that the zombie simply isn't holding anything back.  This sounds a little silly, but is a serious point of consideration.  Think of all the reports about things people have done while on PCP or LSD; many of the feats of superhuman strength are exaggerated, but there are a least a few well documented cases.  In one case, a PCP user broke the metal handcuffs on his wrists, made possible because he was really motivated and couldn't feel the pain.  And people have been known to lift cars and similar acts of strength when they completely forget about self preservation and pain.  Even normal CPR can break a patient's rib cage, because the focus is on getting the heart beating, not preserving soft tissue.

Of course, the most important effect in play to allow this is dramatic effect, which is more powerful than even the laws of physics.


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## Mark CMG (Mar 20, 2012)

Deset Gled said:


> Well, in some cases it would be the finger bones of the walker, which might tear a bit better than fingernails.
> 
> The other big effect is that the zombie simply isn't holding anything back.  This sounds a little silly, but is a serious point of consideration.  Think of all the reports about things people have done while on PCP or LSD; many of the feats of superhuman strength are exaggerated, but there are a least a few well documented cases.  In one case, a PCP user broke the metal handcuffs on his wrists, made possible because he was really motivated and couldn't feel the pain.  And people have been known to lift cars and similar acts of strength when they completely forget about self preservation and pain.  Even normal CPR can break a patient's rib cage, because the focus is on getting the heart beating, not preserving soft tissue.
> 
> Of course, the most important effect in play to allow this is dramatic effect, which is more powerful than even the laws of physics.





_Work my fingers to the bone, what do I get?  *Boney fingers!*_


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Deset Gled said:


> Well, in some cases it would be the finger bones of the walker, which might tear a bit better than fingernails.
> 
> The other big effect is that the zombie simply isn't holding anything back.  This sounds a little silly, but is a serious point of consideration.  Think of all the reports about things people have done while on PCP or LSD; many of the feats of superhuman strength are exaggerated, but there are a least a few well documented cases.  In one case, a PCP user broke the metal handcuffs on his wrists, made possible because he was really motivated and couldn't feel the pain.  And people have been known to lift cars and similar acts of strength when they completely forget about self preservation and pain.  Even normal CPR can break a patient's rib cage, because the focus is on getting the heart beating, not preserving soft tissue.
> 
> Of course, the most important effect in play to allow this is dramatic effect, which is more powerful than even the laws of physics.




Yes - that was better put than what I said above, but they had said that because zombies/walkers do not feel any pain, they are not held back by the normal human brain saying, "don't do that, it could hurt - a lot"


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 20, 2012)

Add to that social conditioning to not do something because it could hurt or kill someone else.  Eye-gouging is a very effective tactic, but people rarely do it _even in life or death situations._


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## Joker (Mar 20, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Add to that social conditioning to not do something because it could hurt or kill someone else.  Eye-gouging is a very effective tactic, but people rarely do it _even in life or death situations._




Unless you're on the rugby pitch.  I'm looking and shaking my fist angrily at you, Schalk Burger!!  From a safe distance, obviously.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 20, 2012)

Even when an eye does get poked, it's usually not the permanently debilitating injury it could be.  There is a reason why self-defense courses emphasis eye-strikes so much...

...and still so many human vermin are out there with both of their eyes.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 20, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Add to that social conditioning to not do something because it could hurt or kill someone else.  Eye-gouging is a very effective tactic, but people rarely do it _even in life or death situations._




Not to mention the old kick to that area between your legs if you're a man.  Of course, even zombies don't do that.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 20, 2012)

Umbran said:


> Um... no-prize style?  We know that human hair and nails will continue to grow for a period after death.  Perhaps it is even moreso for zombies?




It turns out that fingernails and hair don't continue growing after death; the apparent growth is a result of your flesh shrinking up, pulling it away from the base of your nails and hair, making them appear longer.

The end result for zombie fingers is the same: more nail protruding!


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## Kzach (Mar 20, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> Deadliest Warrior is normally a show that pits two historical figures against each other and does a lot of scientific analysis of their weapons & tactics.  This was a radical departure for them.




That show is a massive waste of time, money and energy. It's full of utter make-believe BS. It's touted as being scientific and yet they don't use any scientific methodology and their 'experts' don't know basic-level facts about their so-called specialisations. It's fiction posed as fact. Anything that comes out of that show should be considered a farce and most definitely NOT as a reliable source of information.


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## Oryan77 (Mar 21, 2012)

Kzach said:


> That show is a massive waste of time, money and energy. It's full of utter make-believe BS. It's touted as being scientific and yet they don't use any scientific methodology and their 'experts' don't know basic-level facts about their so-called specialisations. It's fiction posed as fact. Anything that comes out of that show should be considered a farce and most definitely NOT as a reliable source of information.




Wait. You mean to tell me that a Pirate *can't* kill a Knight? I guess someone isn't watching the reenactments.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 21, 2012)

Oryan77 said:


> Wait. You mean to tell me that a Pirate *can't* kill a Knight? I guess someone isn't watching the reenactments.




well, I liked how they ignored some of the results of their testing on that one - the pirate weapon doesn't penetrate the knight's armor, but they still give the "win" to the pirate for that category.

My problem is the match-ups they pick a lot of the time - steel age vs iron age, early medieval vs late medieval, etc.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 21, 2012)

Umbran said:


> Charging the capacitors might be a bit tricky.  But hey, jail cells!  Not much better for keeping him from wandering off, is there?
> 
> 
> 
> In a Georgia summer, you can't go around wearing most of those forms of armor 24/7, unless you want to die of heat stroke.  And, under current conditions, that means they'd come back as an *armored* zombie.  What fun!



I know all about Georgia summers, I live in Columbia SC, just as hot and more humid.  Not talking 7/24 but having it handy would not be a bad thing.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 21, 2012)

Hand of Evil said:


> I know all about Georgia summers, I live in Columbia SC, just as hot and more humid.  Not talking 7/24 but having it handy would not be a bad thing.




However, in Dale's situation - him storming off angry - I doubt he would have taken the time to put on any protective gear.  But, Shane & Otis could have used some when going to get the medical supplies for Carl.


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## Kzach (Mar 21, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> But, Shane & Otis could have used some when going to get the medical supplies for Carl.




I don't think they have bullet-proof armour for knees.


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## Remus Lupin (Mar 21, 2012)

Based on the zombies preferred attack style, a thick leather strap around the throat area would probably be obligatory. Beyond that, I'm thinking you could almost get by with some hockey padding when you go out in the field. In fact, a goalie stick would probably be a very good anti-walker defense weapon.


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## Joker (Mar 21, 2012)

I am completely dumbfounded and frankly a bit irritated that no-one has taken the time to invent powered armor in this show.

Inexcusably lazy writing.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 21, 2012)

Joker said:


> I am completely dumbfounded and frankly a bit irritated that no-one has taken the time to invent powered armor in this show.
> 
> Inexcusably lazy writing.




Now you've done it.  Now I want to see a _Falling Skies + Walking Dead_ type show.  Alien invasion meets ZA!!!


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 21, 2012)

Joker said:


> I am completely dumbfounded and frankly a bit irritated that no-one has taken the time to invent powered armor in this show.
> 
> Inexcusably lazy writing.




I keep saying a bobcat can be a kickass zombie weapon, great little zombie whacker...mmmm, bush whacker could really do a number on zombie, just tilt and place in a door way.   

--------------

Can you image a world without zombie reference in it...all the movies that were never made just by taking out zombies!


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 21, 2012)

Joker said:


> I am completely dumbfounded and frankly a bit irritated that no-one has taken the time to invent powered armor in this show.
> 
> Inexcusably lazy writing.




and, why aren't they using light sabers to fight the zombies?


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 21, 2012)

OK - one other question.  I thought the helicopter that is seen at the beginning of the episode was the same one that Rick saw in Season 1, Episode 1.  They just showed it from the "walker" angle instead of the Rick angle, and they were using it to show how the "herd" of walkers got from Atlanta to Hershel's farm, as it was pretty clear that at least several days passed during the walker march montage.

Does anybody else feel that same way, or am I way off base?


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## Joker (Mar 21, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> OK - one other question.  I thought the helicopter that is seen at the beginning of the episode was the same one that Rick saw in Season 1, Episode 1.  They just showed it from the "walker" angle instead of the Rick angle, and they were using it to show how the "herd" of walkers got from Atlanta to Hershel's farm, as it was pretty clear that at least several days passed during the walker march montage.
> 
> Does anybody else feel that same way, or am I way off base?




Something like that.  Zombies must be going bonkers walking through the woods with all the noises everywhere.  I imagine herds of them standing under a waterfall slowly getting eroded.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 21, 2012)

Joker said:


> Something like that.  Zombies must be going bonkers walking through the woods with all the noises everywhere.  I imagine herds of them standing under a waterfall slowly getting eroded.




Too bad Hershel's farm isn't big enough to have a combine on it:


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## Mark Hope (Mar 21, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> OK - one other question.  I thought the helicopter that is seen at the beginning of the episode was the same one that Rick saw in Season 1, Episode 1.  They just showed it from the "walker" angle instead of the Rick angle, and they were using it to show how the "herd" of walkers got from Atlanta to Hershel's farm, as it was pretty clear that at least several days passed during the walker march montage.
> 
> Does anybody else feel that same way, or am I way off base?




Yeah, that's absolutely what it was.  From a story perspective, I loved that touch.  I thought it was a great twist that Rick and co were doomed to be attacked by the herd one way or the other and had little say in the matter, days if not weeks before they ever arrived at the farm.  The wheels were already in motion.  (OK, yes, there was the fact that Shane's gunshot drew their attention directly towards the farm, but they were still in the neighbourhood.)


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 21, 2012)

I wonder how much time had actually passed at the farm.  How many days were they there?  When Glen professed his love to Maggie, he said that he should have told her "a long time ago".  I know it was probably all relative, but "should have said I love you a long time ago" leads me to believe he should have said it weeks ago.  Maybe they were there for 2-3 months?


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## Deset Gled (Mar 21, 2012)

catsclaw227 said:


> I wonder how much time had actually passed at the farm.  How many days were they there?  When Glen professed his love to Maggie, he said that he should have told her "a long time ago".  I know it was probably all relative, but "should have said I love you a long time ago" leads me to believe he should have said it weeks ago.  Maybe they were there for 2-3 months?




Based on Carl's recovery (and assuming no supernatural or drama-natural healing), I'm guessing a bare minimum of six weeks.  On the other hand, Lori isn't showing or wearing different clothes yet, I don't think she could be any farther than 20 weeks along.  Factor in enough time for her to realize her cycle was off and for the test to work, and it's extremely unlikely they could have been there more than four months.

So your estimate of 2-3 months seems to be pretty realistic.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 21, 2012)

NewJeffCT said:


> OK - one other question.  I thought the helicopter that is seen at the beginning of the episode was the same one that Rick saw in Season 1, Episode 1.  They just showed it from the "walker" angle instead of the Rick angle, and they were using it to show how the "herd" of walkers got from Atlanta to Hershel's farm, as it was pretty clear that at least several days passed during the walker march montage.
> 
> Does anybody else feel that same way, or am I way off base?




That was my feeling on it but also had the feeling this was a "normal" route for the helicopter(s), to keep the zombies moving that way (note: humans have one leg shorter than the other, meaning we would walk in a circle...zombies should do the same thing unless they were focused on something.)


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 21, 2012)

Joker said:


> Something like that.  Zombies must be going bonkers walking through the woods with all the noises everywhere.  I imagine herds of them standing under a waterfall slowly getting eroded.



Which goes to show you...no army ants in this Georgia!


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## Oryan77 (Mar 21, 2012)

Can someone explain to me what that kid was doing in the RV when he pulled up to the barn? Why in the world did he get out of the driver seat? 

I don't normally talk to the tv when I watch shows, but that had me saying, "What in the world is he doing!?!" Then I turned to my wife and asked her the same thing. Was he trying to see if Rick & Carl jumped on? And why the hell didn't he lock the door? That scene seemed to be written with no thought behind it at all.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 22, 2012)

Oryan77 said:


> Can someone explain to me what that kid was doing in the RV when he pulled up to the barn? Why in the world did he get out of the driver seat?
> 
> I don't normally talk to the tv when I watch shows, but that had me saying, "What in the world is he doing!?!" Then I turned to my wife and asked her the same thing. Was he trying to see if Rick & Carl jumped on? And why the hell didn't he lock the door? That scene seemed to be written with no thought behind it at all.




I was wondering that myself - maybe he initially thought Rick & Carl could jump in the open door, only he found that it was zombie city there and had gotten up to shut/lock the door?


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## Kzach (Mar 22, 2012)

Duh, he had no surname, that's why he did something stupid that got him killed.


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## Mark CMG (Mar 22, 2012)

I thought the walkers busted open the door and he was trying to close it.


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## Hand of Evil (Mar 22, 2012)

It was Dales' RV and it had to die too...and anyone in it too, that's symbolism.


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## Janx (Mar 23, 2012)

Kzach said:


> Duh, he had no surname, that's why he did something stupid that got him killed.




prior to him dying, I spent most of the last few episodes wondering, "who the heck is Jimmy?"

It's like Hershel had a couple of hiders living on his farm that allegedly live there, but you never see until its time for them to die.


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## Janx (Mar 23, 2012)

Mark Hope said:


> Yeah, that's absolutely what it was.  From a story perspective, I loved that touch.  I thought it was a great twist that Rick and co were doomed to be attacked by the herd one way or the other and had little say in the matter, days if not weeks before they ever arrived at the farm.  The wheels were already in motion.  (OK, yes, there was the fact that Shane's gunshot drew their attention directly towards the farm, but they were still in the neighbourhood.)




thats not the way I saw that.

The chopper took the zombies one way, and had Shane not fired his gun, the zombie horde would have kept heading past the farm.  Instead, they turned right for the farm.

It was Shane that doomed the farm.  Just as it had always been Shane that was threatening the peace on the farm.


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## Rabulias (Mar 23, 2012)

Well, even if Shane had not fired, the zombies would have come running (figuratively) after Carl put Shane down.

And truly can't we trace the whole ZA back to Lori?


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## Janx (Mar 23, 2012)

Rabulias said:


> Well, even if Shane had not fired, the zombies would have come running (figuratively) after Carl put Shane down.
> 
> And truly can't we trace the whole ZA back to Lori?




if shane had not fired, rick wouldn't have killed him.

If shane hadn't been angling to kill rick, nobody would have been out there to attact the zombies that night.


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 23, 2012)

Janx said:


> if shane had not fired, rick wouldn't have killed him.
> 
> If shane hadn't been angling to kill rick, nobody would have been out there to attact the zombies that night.




Carl still would have wandered out there & caused something to happen to bring on Farmageddon.


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## Style (Mar 23, 2012)

Lori was secretly slipping out at night and laying trails of chicken entrails to lead the horde to the farm.  If you look carefully in the night-time shot of episode #11, you can see her at the back with a big bag of guts.  It was actually her fault.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 23, 2012)

I figured it out: [sblock]Carl causes zombies.[/sblock]
That's why we have a zombie apocalypse in the first place.


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