# Fiery Dragon has Sword & Sorcery license?



## Glyfair (Aug 15, 2008)

According to this article on gamingreport.com, Fiery Dragon now has the Sword & Sorcery license for 4E.  This is the first I heard of this.  Visiting their site, apparently they will do Relics & Rituals and the Creature Collection.

Anyone heard any more details?


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## Soel (Aug 15, 2008)

Very interested in these...

I hadn't realized that the Creature Collection and Relics and Rituals names were independent from Scarred Lands (or are they not?)


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## Furry_Thing (Aug 15, 2008)

Soel said:


> Very interested in these...
> 
> I hadn't realized that the Creature Collection and Relics and Rituals names were independent from Scarred Lands (or are they not?)




If they were, they were chock full of direct Scarred Lands references anyway. Not that it stopped me from using them separately despite that.


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## Glyfair (Aug 15, 2008)

Also, it's possible they will be doing Scarred Lands products.  Can't get much more "Points of Light" than that.


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## Klaus (Aug 15, 2008)

Glyfair said:


> Also, it's possible they will be doing Scarred Lands products.  Can't get much more "Points of Light" than that.



This.

Also, here's a closer look at the Creature Collection cover:


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## Maggan (Aug 15, 2008)

Klaus said:


> This.
> 
> Also, here's a closer look at the Creature Collection cover:




That's one sweet cover!

/M


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## El Mahdi (Aug 15, 2008)

I just when I thought I could walk away from buying anymore books (since I decided I didn't want to go with 4E) along comes _Adventurers Vault_ and these books.  Man, I really liked _Relics and Rituals_ for 3E.  Oh well.  Looks like I'll never escape.


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## DaveMage (Aug 15, 2008)

IIRC, the Creature Collection was Clark Peterson's baby....

Interesting.


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## Lord Xtheth (Aug 15, 2008)

Wasn't Sword & Sorcery White Wolf's baby?
dag, well heres hoping these guys do a good job.


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## cerberus2112 (Aug 15, 2008)

When can I buy it!!!


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 15, 2008)

I am very excited about this. 

I would be almost everything I could find that was Scarrd Lands 4e.


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 15, 2008)

We know that Nightfall was one of the Scarred Lands fan "experts", but who were some of the other EnWorld posters that had a lot of SL knowledge?

I would be curious if any of them already started converting some stuff.


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## DaveMage (Aug 15, 2008)

catsclaw227 said:


> We know that Nightfall was one of the Scarred Lands fan "experts", but who were some of the other EnWorld posters that had a lot of SL knowledge?
> 
> I would be curious if any of them already started converting some stuff.




IIRC, Ari Marmell was a contributing writer, so he'd probably be a great resource.


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## Scribble (Aug 15, 2008)

The original books were released before the scarred lands campaign setting. They were based off of the homebrew setting WW people used when they played D&D...  They put the flavor in there to color their books, and people liked it so much they decided to release the campaign setting.

This... excites me...  A LOT!


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 15, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> IIRC, Ari Marmell was a contributing writer, so he'd probably be a great resource.



That's right, I remember now.  I think he also mentioned that he would be very interested in participating in a 4e SL project.

(note: my memory sucks, so don't try to give my post the same credence as a Westlaw citation.)


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## JoeGKushner (Aug 15, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> IIRC, the Creature Collection was Clark Peterson's baby....
> 
> Interesting.




Not all Clark though. White Wolf used to have a magazine, White Wolf Magazine, and it had many a monster in it. Several of them wound up in the Creatre Collection, although some of the forms they took, such as the Mithril Golem, were far different than their original ones.


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## Jack of Shadows (Aug 15, 2008)

Glyfair said:


> According to this article on gamingreport.com, Fiery Dragon now has the Sword & Sorcery license for 4E.  This is the first I heard of this.  Visiting their site, apparently they will do Relics & Rituals and the Creature Collection.
> 
> Anyone heard any more details?




I've known about this for a while but now that James has announced it I can talk about it.

Fiery Dragon has taken over the Sword & Sorcery imprint from White Wolf. It does not include any of the Necromancer, Malhavoc or World of Warcraft material but I suspect that hardly comes as a surprise. It DOES include all the Scarred Lands stuff so expect to see new material for this setting being produced for 4E.

For any more details you're better to query FieryJames, FieryTodd, or FieryJason. 

JoS

NB: I'm not an employee of Fiery Dragon, just a long time friend of the folks who are. So don't take anything I say as an official statement of the company.


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## Twowolves (Aug 15, 2008)

catsclaw227 said:


> We know that Nightfall was one of the Scarred Lands fan "experts", but who were some of the other EnWorld posters that had a lot of SL knowledge?
> 
> I would be curious if any of them already started converting some stuff.





Other than myself, Rumere was a name I recall on most Scarred Lands threads. Unfortunately, you won't get any conversion notes from me, unless you want it converted to Pathfinder RPG.


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## Zaukrie (Aug 15, 2008)

Interesting. I might be in for some of these books. But, the creature book really needs to have stuff that is unique in it, not just what the books had before. 

I hope they flesh out the kinds of things that made the setting unique, like astronomy, for example.


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 15, 2008)

Twowolves said:


> Other than myself, Rumere was a name I recall on most Scarred Lands threads. Unfortunately, you won't get any conversion notes from me, unless you want it converted to Pathfinder RPG.




I recall the both of you.  Even if there are others converting some SL crunch to 4e, you can still be a resource for geopolitics/theology/myth/lore/NPC Motivations, etc. 

Have fun running it with Pathfinder RPG!


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## Glyfair (Aug 18, 2008)

Jack of Shadows said:


> It DOES include all the Scarred Lands stuff so expect to see new material for this setting being produced for 4E.



That's good to hear.  Scarred Lands wasn't something I ever planned on running (so many great settings, so little time), but the ideas were strong on things I have liberally borrowed.


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## JoeGKushner (Aug 18, 2008)

I hope they're able to build on the good things about the line while working out the bad things. No major campaign setting changes in the first trilogy of novels. Give the GM plenty of places for use as adventuring points but also make sure there are several detailed places to home base the PCs. Mitrhil and Hollowfaust were great examples of the latter but almost all the other books in the series the former.


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## Vanuslux (Aug 18, 2008)

The Scarred Lands were by far my favorite setting for 3.x as far as being close to the tone and style of my homebrew setting.  They got a ton of my money and I certainly would check out any 4e Scarred Lands stuff.


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## Kaladhan (Aug 18, 2008)

I like Fiery Dragon. Good people and good company, but they do have one flaw, they take forever to release something (and miss the deadlines by a few months). If they can get their things together and come close to their release date, I will be look forward to the Creature Collection.


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## TerraDave (Aug 18, 2008)

Fiery Dragon is a great company and NeMoren's vault and the various counter collections were some of my favourite 3E era products. 

They have a decent artist on staff as well


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## TerraDave (Aug 18, 2008)

Though, speaking of delays, did Of Sound Mind II ever come out?


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## Nebulous (Aug 18, 2008)

For those more in the know than myself, can a new monster book ADD information to the creature descriptions?  For instance, is it legal by the GSL to add an Ecology section, or does it have to look and read exactly like the core Monster Manual?


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## SandS_James (Aug 18, 2008)

Hi everyone,

Cat's out the bag, I guess.  Although, I was the guy hanging the 8-foot banner at GenCon, so I really should have known... 

Yes, Fiery Dragon has the worldwide license for the Sword & Sorcery brand and related products including Creature Collection, Relics & Rituals, and the Scarred Lands.  Yes, the upcoming Sword & Sorcery products will be some of our 4E offerings starting this fall.  (You'll also see some things released just under the FDP brand, such as Battlebox and Counter Collections, plus some PDF adventures as well).

As for Sword & Sorcery, here are my plans at this point in time:

First off, Fiery Dragon is nowhere near the size of White Wolf, and lacks the resources to replicate what What Wolf did with Sword & Sorcery and Scarred Lands for 3E.  So, I'm planning on keeping things pretty tight.  We may see 12 books over the next 3 years, but I figure that's about my limit.  As has already been noted, the last thing I want to do is our typical overpromise and underdeliver... I feel that's being done enough by the market leaders right now... (ouch!)  

In The Fall (see how I'm keeping the date loose right now), we'll put out a Creature Collection for 4E.  This will be mostly a compilation of monsters from the first 3 Creature Collections, but of course converted, updated, with new art and such.  AND, there will indeed be new creatures in there as well.  I've gone through the original CCs and pulled the stuff that I think will work well with the 4E rules and/or is a prime component of the Scarred Lands setting (though you don't need to play in the Scarred Lands to use these creatures).  The book will provide a lot of useful monsters... and give some insight into where we're taking SL.

In the Spring of 2009, I plan on putting out Relics & Rituals, which will be a book full of Relics... and Rituals.  It'll also feature new classes... or new class paths... that cover some key aspects of SL stuff (like a Necromancer, of course!) and have lots of great items and powers, and possibly a demonstrating adventure or two.

I would like to put out a Scarred Lands Campaign Guide for GenCon next year.  It will have the overview of the Scarred Lands, what's happened since we last visited, where everything stands now, and offer a pretty clear idea about adventures in the Scarred Lands.  You'll know what's safe, where danger lies, who the top threats are, and have hope for the future.  

Those are my hardcover plans, and probably the only hardcovers that I'll ever be able to do.  And some of these plans may change as we see the new GSL and experience the 3rd party 4th edition market for the first time.

Beyond those books, I see 7-9 adventure/setting/sourcebooks that will provide iconic and heroic opportunities in the Scarred Lands.

I have been talking to several writers and artists for some time while spending the past 6 months working out the details with White Wolf, and of course, I'm already behind.  The thing about FDP is we are a small game company, and we are limited as to our resources (primarily time and money!), but I do have a passion for D&D, a great fondness for the Scarred Lands, a desire to create the best products we've ever produced, and a dream of creating something that is enjoyed by thousands of fans.

That being said, while I've got some direction, the journey is still unwritten.  We're looking for feedback and input, and I'll be paying attention, certainly more than I've been able to in the past few years, about what's going on here and in other SL sits and blogs on the 'net.

So, what would you like to see?  Favorite creatures from the original Creature collection?  Ideas about the Scarred Lands?  What stories would you like to see resolved?  What characters would you like to step forward?  What places should be brought to light, and which should be left to shadow?

'Cause Sword & Sorcery is back and ready to game.

- James


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## The Little Raven (Aug 18, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> Ideas about the Scarred Lands?




Take a cue from Eberron and do not advance the timeline. Introduce new threats through retcons or "you just never noticed him before" explanations. Since you won't be doing stuff like Divine & Defeated for 4e, try and keep as much 3e material as useful as possible.


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## Scribble (Aug 18, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> So, what would you like to see?  Favorite creatures from the original Creature collection?  Ideas about the Scarred Lands?  What stories would you like to see resolved?  What characters would you like to step forward?  What places should be brought to light, and which should be left to shadow





Sutak
Slitheren
Assathi

Are my three top choices... 

Spider Eye goblins are pretty neat.. hrmm let me think.


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## Kunimatyu (Aug 18, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> So, what would you like to see?  Favorite creatures from the original Creature collection?  Ideas about the Scarred Lands?  What stories would you like to see resolved?  What characters would you like to step forward?  What places should be brought to light, and which should be left to shadow?




I remember liking the Shackledeath, I think it was called?

I'd like to see more variant zombies/skeletons/orc/goblins and other classic creatures, as I think there's always room for more interesting variants to keep players on their toes.


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## Voadam (Aug 18, 2008)

Please give some warning about the date the 3e pdfs will be removed from sale. I've got a bunch, but not all the ones I want yet (including one of the ones I was a contributor on).


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## Varianor Abroad (Aug 19, 2008)

Any news then on the _Arcana Evolved _licensed products (yes I know one just came out)?


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## Dragonblade (Aug 19, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Cat's out the bag, I guess.  Although, I was the guy hanging the 8-foot banner at GenCon, so I really should have known...
> 
> ...




I'd probably pick up some of these books. I always thought the Scarred Lands was a neat setting. But the big thing I want to see from Fiery Dragon is a 4e Counter Collection covering all the monster manual monsters. I'd buy that in a heart beat, especially a PDF version.


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## SandS_James (Aug 19, 2008)

Voadam said:


> Please give some warning about the date the 3e pdfs will be removed from sale. I've got a bunch, but not all the ones I want yet (including one of the ones I was a contributor on).




That's up to White Wolf, and their decision will be based on the end of the d20 License and how our products interact with the new GSL and theirs under the OGL.  It's a tricky area, but I'm going to guess you still have a few months before anything will start going away... if it does at all.


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## SandS_James (Aug 19, 2008)

Dragonblade said:


> I'd probably pick up some of these books. I always thought the Scarred Lands was a neat setting. But the big thing I want to see from Fiery Dragon is a 4e Counter Collection covering all the monster manual monsters. I'd buy that in a heart beat, especially a PDF version.




Workin' on it, and very very close to done.


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## SandS_James (Aug 19, 2008)

Varianor Abroad said:


> Any news then on the _Arcana Evolved _licensed products (yes I know one just came out)?




Hi Varianor... talked to Tom at the show.  We definately want to continue our association with AE, but we're not actively producing any AE products at this time.  We have one last release lined up, Dragon Hunters, but nothing after that.

That being said, if Soren writes something and asks us to publish, and has patience enough for us to take forever, we're more than game.

Success with _Beyond Creation_, the latest adventure, would certainly help steer us toward more products.

- James


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## Set (Aug 19, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> So, what would you like to see? Favorite creatures from the original Creature collection? Ideas about the Scarred Lands? What stories would you like to see resolved? What characters would you like to step forward? What places should be brought to light, and which should be left to shadow?




Favorite critters (following the 4e design philosophy where different 'roles' of mobs would be mixed into an encounter);
Asaatthi warriors, druids and wizards, perhaps with Lizardfolk slave-warriors
Packsoul/Feral
Slitheren, perhaps with giant rats, and *really* giant (large or even huge size) rats as mounts and attack beasts
Osseus Calabra / Necromantic Golems
'Masterwork' Skeletons and Marrow Knights (an encounter from Hollowfaust could include a living Necromancer, a pair of Marrow Knights, some Masterwork Skeletons and a single Osseus Calabra or Necromantic Golem!)
High Gorgons and Low Gorgons
Hags (perhaps with a less-silly-looking version of Hag Children as fodder, representing human children kidnapped and tainted by their potions)
Spider-Eye Goblins w/ Cleric of Belsamaug (or Sethris) and giant spiders
Belsamaug assassins
Sutak
Hollow Knights 

Favorite places;
Hollowfaust - a city full of necromancers!
Shelzar
Fangsfall
Mithril - a city full of paladins!  Perhaps some Hollow Knights would relocate there as well, to mix up encounters from that area, or perhaps Mithril would fall and the survivors would live in the Gleaming Vale?
Hornsaw Forest

Favorite characters;
the PCs (not a big fan of setting-specific NPCs)
a group of Iconics for the Scarred Lands would be neat

Other stuff I'd love to see worked up;
Penumbral Mages (as a path for Wizards?)
Necromancers (with enough versatility to be able to replicate the founders of Hollowfaust, a half dozen *very* distinct and different Necromancers)
Gold/Silver/Iron Knight paths for Paladins from Mithril
Exemplar path for Monks?
Incarnate path for Druids?
Albadian Tattoo magic (perhaps with a tattooed witch path?)
Paths for Druids and Sorcerers related to the various Titans (Chern's faithful gaining powers related to insects and disease, Glaurak's devoted having powers related to draining others and enhancing themselves or actual consumption and hunger effects, Thulkas's brethren having powers related to iron and fire, Mormo's children having powers related to venom and serpents, etc.)
Paths for Clerics based on the eight main gods of the setting (Corean, Madriel, Tanil, Hedrada, Enkili, Chardun, Belsameth and Vangal).  Alternately, some other way of giving the Clerics of those dieties some specific flavor.
Perhaps carrying over the 'invocations' as minor rituals, with beefed up effects, for devotees of those gods?
Racial variations for chain-wielding slaver Charduni Dwarves, savage tattooed Hornsaw Elves, the golem/craft-oriented Dark Elves of the setting and the native Half-Orc population (which come from a stable nation, with both half-orc mommies and half-orc daddies, not any sort of violent origination)

With a limited selection of books, it might be best to stick to Ghelspad, rather than attempt a spottier coverage of Termana, Asherak, etc. as well.


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## Oni (Aug 20, 2008)

Anything to do with hollowfaust, be neat to see their different schools brought up to date with 4e. 

Anything to do with punumbral mages/shadow magic just cause it's cool.  


If i had to pick though hollowfaust, I just love the idea so much.


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## Twowolves (Aug 20, 2008)

I had a post, but the boards ate it.

Essentially, I would be happy to help with any fact checking or fluff material for the new line, but since I'm completely out of the 4th ed loop, I can't help crunchwise. 

As for what I would like to see, a campaign setting book done well (with everything in one place instead of scattered over 3-5 books like the last one was) is high on the list. In keeping with the "points of light" idea, the setting could go bottom up instead of top down; a Vesh only campaign setting to start with, for example, then perhaps the west coast, or Durrover,  or Fangsfall or Mithril in a similar vein. Then adventures, adventures and more adventures!


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## JeffB (Aug 20, 2008)

I should say that I'm not a schooled fan of the setting, but I really liked all the SL products I bought back in 3.0s heyday.

I felt the original SL GAZ was a FAR better product than the later hardback (which suffered from "overdetailitis", like the FR has over the years. The Gaz along with books like Mithril, and Hollowfaust I've found are about perfect for amount of content, and bang for the buck- give me the bones and then let me flesh out the monster  

In addition, I really liked the few FD products I had- OSM in particular. 

This is good news, and I'm  looking forward to seeing the S&S products.


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## Nytmare (Sep 15, 2008)

With such a limited number of books, I think you should be really careful about getting lost in the details. Especially since so many of those details are already in print, and are (for the most part) unaffected by the mechanical changes of 4th Ed.

*Book full of Places* - Rehash of the Ghelspad book, but organized and weeded a little bit better.
*Book full of Monsters* - Creature Collection
*Book full of Stuff* - Relics and Rituals
*Book full of Gods, Groups and NPCs* - Divine and the Defeated, Wise and the Wicked, and a double handful of information about the more noticable groups in Ghelspad.  

*Book full of Martial Splat*
*Book full of Divine Splat*
*Book full of Arcane Splat*
*Book full of Titanic Power Source Splat That I'm Assuming is Going to be Primal*

*Book full of Encounters and Hooks* - Wilderness and Wasteland
*Three Books full of an Adventure Story Arc* - Hopefully something continent and tier jumping.


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## Voadam (Sep 15, 2008)

New Place books: Vesh and Darakene. As statless as is feasible.


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## JoeGKushner (Sep 16, 2008)

There definately needs to be a good starting place for characters to adventure in. Mithril and Hollowfaust were great, but many of the other regional sourcebooks made better places to adventure in them act as home bases unless you were running an evil campaign. With 4e's new alignments though, that might not be as much an issue.


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## GMforPowergamers (Sep 16, 2008)

Ok, there are some monster,spells, and stuff I REALY hope make the cut...but I am away from my books, so I will do my beast to remember them...

The Double wizard that Could split and remerge

The dweller

The Ratmen (all of them)

The Mythral Golem

The fearl creature that the more you killed the stronger it got.

The skin hunter that could wear a skin and gain a power.

And i realy want to see some PC write ups too.

Magic:
   Shade sight
   Flame bolt
   Eclipse
   Arcane Parry
   Battle Projection
   The spell that enchanted an arrow into a lightning bolt
   The spell that turned 1 arrow intp a cone AoE

 almost every rituel should be ported over

Magic items:
      The Oath rings
      The Swords of Sharn
      Magic Tattos


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## tsadkiel (Sep 16, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> So, what would you like to see?  Favorite creatures from the original Creature collection?




Harpies!  I like the Scarred Lands harpies so much more than the regular D&D version.  Bonus points if the Creature Collection includes a shortened MM-style race writeup.  (And write-ups for assaathi, slitherin, etc.)


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## Conway (Oct 6, 2008)

*YES!  Scarred Lands is Alive!*

I'm so incredibly excited and happy to hear that the Scarred Lands setting has been revived.  I've been DMing exclusively in this setting for the past few years and have two active v3.5 campaigns in Ghelspad.

There is so much I love about this setting, but I'm going to keep my initial lists short:


Favorite Creatures:

*Gorgons*-  I don't know which is cooler, a high gorgon or a low gorgon?  I do know that together, they're the coolest.

*Forsaken Elves*- I like my elves forsaken, and my elf god dead.


Favorite Characters:

*Belsameth*-  She's so evil-sexy.

*Ilkuthsra, the Autumn King* - This dude is a complete mystery, but I believe that Ari 'Mouseferatu' Marmell had very cool things in store.


I want to see-

*ADVENTURES* - Lots and Lots of adventures set in Ghelspad.  I'd like to see the world fleshed out through the use of adventure modules instead of sourcebooks.  Do _adventures_ with Belsamite assassins, and Hollowfaust necromancers, and Mithril knights, and Calastian battle-mages, and Shadow Walkers of Drendari, and travel to Irontooth Pass, and Mullis Town, and Gest Ganest's Towers, and I think you get the idea.

*Vesh Sourcebook* - If you do a sourcebook; make it a new location, and make it Vesh.  Include a nice map of the nation and a nicer map of Lave.  I'd kill for beautiful map of Lave.


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 6, 2008)

Conway said:


> *Ilkuthsra, the Autumn King* - This dude is a complete mystery, but I believe that Ari 'Mouseferatu' Marmell had very cool things in store.




In point of fact, I was talking to the White Wolf fiction department, and we were discussing the possibility of me writing a Scarred Lands novel trilogy--which would have _heavily_ involved the Autumn King--but that project died when WW moved out of the D20 market.


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## catsclaw227 (Oct 6, 2008)

Mouseferatu said:


> In point of fact, I was talking to the White Wolf fiction department, and we were discussing the possibility of me writing a Scarred Lands novel trilogy--which would have _heavily_ involved the Autumn King--but that project died when WW moved out of the D20 market.




Maybe there is still an opportunity for this now that FD has the Scarred Lands license.   SandSJames?


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 6, 2008)

catsclaw227 said:


> Maybe there is still an opportunity for this now that FD has the Scarred Lands license.   SandSJames?




Heh. I wouldn't expect a company like Fiery Dragon to be able to publish novels through the mainstream channels. But I appreciate the fact that there's still an interest.


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## catsclaw227 (Oct 6, 2008)

Mouseferatu said:


> Heh. I wouldn't expect a company like Fiery Dragon to be able to publish novels through the mainstream channels. But I appreciate the fact that there's still an interest.




Aww come on Ari, you guys are pretty well connected...   Maybe a few envelopes, plant some questionable evidence, snap some damaging photos, and there you go!  Lucrative publishing deal.


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## JoeGKushner (Oct 6, 2008)

Mouseferatu said:


> In point of fact, I was talking to the White Wolf fiction department, and we were discussing the possibility of me writing a Scarred Lands novel trilogy--which would have _heavily_ involved the Autumn King--but that project died when WW moved out of the D20 market.




What type of scope would that novel have had?

One of the things I think WW blew with SL is their first series of novels was just too big and made too many huge changes to the setting right off the bat.


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 6, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> What type of scope would that novel have had?
> 
> One of the things I think WW blew with SL is their first series of novels was just too big and made too many huge changes to the setting right off the bat.




Well, in terms of area covered and the amount of Ghelspad involved in the plot, it was a pretty large scope. And it delved a lot into some of the mythology of the gods and the titans.

But in terms of permanent changes to the way the setting would be played or presented? Not many at all. It wasn't what, in Forgotten Realms, is called a Realms-Shaking Event, though a few elements of it came _close_.


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## Teflon Billy (Oct 6, 2008)

Vesh!

It was the only area of Ghelspad that really didn't get any treatment at all (which was odd given that it seemed that a lot of the canon seemed to imply that that's where the PC's would most easily be from)


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## Rhoward (Oct 6, 2008)

Someone knows when the new Creature Collection precisely hits the shelves in October? Any news from Fiery Dragon Productions?
I am really excited about that new book!



Thanks!


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## catsclaw227 (Oct 6, 2008)

Teflon Billy said:


> Vesh!
> 
> It was the only area of Ghelspad that really didn't get any treatment at all (which was odd given that it seemed that a lot of the canon seemed to imply that that's where the PC's would most easily be from)




There wasn't much done with the northwest and far west either, Darakeene and Dunahnae, and Perforated Plains and Albadia could have had some nice stuff done.


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## avin (Oct 6, 2008)

Vertigens, please.


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## Voadam (Oct 6, 2008)

catsclaw227 said:


> There wasn't much done with the northwest and far west either, Darakeene and Dunahnae, and Perforated Plains and Albadia could have had some nice stuff done.




How could I have forgotten Albadia?

Yes, add Albadia to Vesh and Darakeene for things I'd like to see. Actually put Albadia at the top of the list.


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## Psion (Oct 6, 2008)

catsclaw227 said:


> We know that Nightfall was one of the Scarred Lands fan "experts", but who were some of the other EnWorld posters that had a lot of SL knowledge?
> 
> I would be curious if any of them already started converting some stuff.




IR Scarred Lands fan.

Course, I really have about zero interest in 4e, so probably "not the droid you are looking for".

The fact that Scarred Lands was pretty much written as a custom fit to many D&D tropes as they existed in 3e (e.g., druids are big in SL, but so far absent in 4e), and given the current state of the GSL makes for an interesting predicament for folks doing conversion work under the current GSL.


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## Rhoward (Oct 6, 2008)

Voadam said:


> Yes, add Albadia to Vesh and Darakeene for things I'd like to see. Actually put Albadia at the top of the list.




Darakeene was fully developped by the french magazine *D20 Magazine* a few years ago (it doesn't exist no more)... The french publisher has got the right to develop this part of Ghelspad and it became official stuff for the french roleplayers. So "french Darakeene" is different from original one. It is possible to find all that stuff but, well, it's in _la langue de Molière_...


----------



## Voadam (Oct 6, 2008)

Rhoward said:


> Darakeene was fully developped by the french magazine *D20 Magazine* a few years ago (it doesn't exist no more)... The french publisher has got the right to develop this part of Ghelspad and it became official stuff for the french roleplayers. So "french Darakeene" is different from original one. It is possible to find all that stuff but, well, it's in _la langue de Molière_...




Unless someone is willing to translate that will not help me unfortunately.

As they say in France. _Say lah vee_.


----------



## DaveMage (Oct 7, 2008)

Psion said:


> The fact that Scarred Lands was pretty much written as a custom fit to many D&D tropes as they existed in 3e (e.g., druids are big in SL, but so far absent in 4e), and given the current state of the GSL makes for an interesting predicament for folks doing conversion work under the current GSL.




Indeed.  I would hate to be a 3PP designer who creates a campaign setting only to learn later that the way WotC does the druid, sorcerer, barbarian, etc. could force you to have to rewrite/rethink entire sections.

What a (potential) mess.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 7, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> Indeed.  I would hate to be a 3PP designer who creates a campaign setting only to learn later that the way WotC does the druid, sorcerer, barbarian, etc. could force you to have to rewrite/rethink entire sections.
> 
> What a (potential) mess.




Geez... no kidding...

Unless some of the conversion used XRP's Advanced Players Guide alternate classes.  I am not sure what the license restrictions are on using the classes from that book.  Is it OGL?

But that would end up making the SL books non-GSL and I'm not sure what FD's intentions are about the licensing.


----------



## DaveMage (Oct 7, 2008)

catsclaw227 said:


> Geez... no kidding...
> 
> Unless some of the conversion used XRP's Advanced Players Guide alternate classes.  I am not sure what the license restrictions are on using the classes from that book.  Is it OGL?




No, the APG uses the GSL, IIRC.

However, I don't think it works like the OGL, so (again, IIRC) no one can use the APG classes without express permission from Expeditious Retreat.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Oct 7, 2008)

Psion said:


> IR Scarred Lands fan.
> 
> Course, I really have about zero interest in 4e, so probably "not the droid you are looking for".
> 
> The fact that Scarred Lands was pretty much written as a custom fit to many D&D tropes as they existed in 3e (e.g., druids are big in SL, but so far absent in 4e), and given the current state of the GSL makes for an interesting predicament for folks doing conversion work under the current GSL.




Play to the strengths of 4th edition.

More points of light, less druids.

Druids become the province of the NPC via the Human entry in the monster manual.

After all, it's not like the original SL was set up to handle all the non-open stuff that WoTC came out with later. Putting places for the various entities from Tome of Magic, Book of Nine Swords, etc... required some finese. Surely utilizing 3rd party support in such roles would require no more work.

This is especially true if the new edition is aimed at the strengths of 4e instead of trying to ram the old setting bits into the new edition. The old setting has enough utility that there's a lot of material that can be worked into 4th ed without having to convey everything.

After all, how many paragon paths can we get out of the old Vigilant eh? Three? Four?

Druids are neat but even in the 3.5 version, they often took the form of adversaries. If Fiery Dragon doesn't decide that they're going to be in the hands of the players, it won't cripple the setting for me.


----------



## JVisgaitis (Oct 7, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> Indeed.  I would hate to be a 3PP designer who creates a campaign setting only to learn later that the way WotC does the druid, sorcerer, barbarian, etc. could force you to have to rewrite/rethink entire sections.
> 
> What a (potential) mess.




As someone that is going through that now I can attest to the fact that yes, it sucks.


----------



## Liquid Ghost (Oct 9, 2008)

As a Scarred Lands fan and former contributor, I'm glad to hear of this. But I'm also a bit wary, White Wolf was always great on *fluff* but flaky on *crunch*; I hope Fiery Dragon can shake that and deliver a solid product.


----------



## Psion (Oct 9, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> Play to the strengths of 4th edition.
> 
> More points of light, less druids.
> 
> Druids become the province of the NPC via the Human entry in the monster manual.




So nuke and pave to fit a la FR?

In a way, I sort of hope they go that route, as it would remove temptation for me.


----------



## Klaus (Oct 9, 2008)

Psion said:


> So nuke and pave to fit a la FR?
> 
> In a way, I sort of hope they go that route, as it would remove temptation for me.



One option is to stat druids in monster format, and let DMs decide which Druid best suits their purpose, an official one or one like the Nature Priest in the APG. What do you think?


----------



## avin (Oct 9, 2008)

I was told there would be a preview of CC by this week and selling would start at november.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 9, 2008)

Klaus said:


> One option is to stat druids in monster format, and let DMs decide which Druid best suits their purpose, an official one or one like the Nature Priest in the APG. What do you think?



I think this is the right idea.  Now we have two druids (APG and FH:FFS) and the upcoming druid in the PHB2.   Who says that druids (NPC or PC) cannot be made of any of the three versions?  A druid of Mormo in the Hornsaw may be more like FH:FFS, a druid or Mesos (very sorcery like) may be more like the APG one.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Oct 10, 2008)

Psion said:


> So nuke and pave to fit a la FR?
> 
> In a way, I sort of hope they go that route, as it would remove temptation for me.




That isn't what I said at all.

Druids aren't in the SRD.

Cry about it or work around it?

I'd rather see them work around it and build on the strengths of the setting. Druids, at least in almost every campaign I played in, were often the enemies, especially when they served the titans. As a GM, having them listed as monsters instead of a PC class would only make my job easier.

If having a specific class is a deal breaker for you... well, that's another story.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 10, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> Druids, at least in almost every campaign I played in, were often the enemies, especially when they served the titans. As a GM, having them listed as monsters instead of a PC class would only make my job easier.



This is a good point, but we did have a druid of Denev in one game I ran.  But it's not a big deal, and in the campaign guide, it may not be necessary to create the druid class because it will be officially introduced in PHB II anyway.

Though, like I said, we have two druids now already anyway with APG and FH:FFS.


----------



## Psion (Oct 12, 2008)

Klaus said:


> One option is to stat druids in monster format, and let DMs decide which Druid best suits their purpose, an official one or one like the Nature Priest in the APG. What do you think?




That sounds good to me. Not because it makes my life any easier (as I have no intention of playing 4e, Scarred Lands or no), but because it minimizes the intrusion of mechanics into the setting, maximizing the chance there will be some good setting material I can convert back to 3.5 or Pathfinder.


----------



## Psion (Oct 12, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> That isn't what I said at all.
> 
> Druids aren't in the SRD.
> 
> ...




I rather think under 3e, making a positive and distinct role for druids WAS a strength of the setting (given things like Denev, Incarnates, and the fact that Druids had their own True Rituals.)



> Druids, at least in almost every campaign I played in, were often the enemies, especially when they served the titans. As a GM, having them listed as monsters instead of a PC class would only make my job easier.




As for me, druids served well in protagonists roles. It's been my observation that druid is one of the preferred classes of my women gamers. 

For druid players IMC, the fact that druid characters had a unique and interesting role in the world was a positive boon.

I'm sorry if I didn't get your meaning, but let me restate my point without presumption: if the setting is rewritten to de-emphasize druids in a protagonist role, that will play down a strength of the setting IMO.


----------



## BryonD (Oct 12, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> Druids aren't in the SRD.
> 
> Cry about it or work around it?



Option C perhaps?



> If having a specific class is a deal breaker for you... well, that's another story.



Since we are talking about a predefined setting and a class that is a central part of it, implying it is unreasonable to expect the class presence is just as unfair as it would be if we were talking about not having options for Jedi in Star Wars.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Oct 13, 2008)

Psion said:


> I rather think under 3e, making a positive and distinct role for druids WAS a strength of the setting (given things like Denev, Incarnates, and the fact that Druids had their own True Rituals.)




Sure, it was ONE of the strengths of the setting.  I don't see it happening so hope that they can work on the other strengths of the setting. 




Psion said:


> As for me, druids served well in protagonists roles. It's been my observation that druid is one of the preferred classes of my women gamers.
> 
> For druid players IMC, the fact that druid characters had a unique and interesting role in the world was a positive boon.




They do work great in those roles. But that role, by WoTC, has been closed. If people can't find new ways to use the other roles that already existed in the setting or the new roles, that could indeed be a problem. 



Psion said:


> I'm sorry if I didn't get your meaning, but let me restate my point without presumption: if the setting is rewritten to de-emphasize druids in a protagonist role, that will play down a strength of the setting IMO.




I agree in part. One of the strengths of the setting for players will be downplayed. For GMs, it will be upscaled as druids can now fill several roles. 



			
				BryonD  said:
			
		

> Since we are talking about a predefined setting and a class that is a central part of it, implying it is unreasonable to expect the class presence is just as unfair as it would be if we were talking about not having options for Jedi in Star Wars.




I disagree to a point. In the original movie, we have one character as a jedi. Depending on which line of fiction or setting your going with, the jedi play a minor role, no role, or a major role.

The druids are far away from being jedi in my opinion.


----------



## haaz (Oct 13, 2008)

I don't think that someone can publish a Scarred Lands book without a druid. I don't say that you can't play a SL game without a druid, but that a SL setting book must include druids. Either as a character class or as a monster.

The druids hold the power of the titans. Having no druid would mean (IMO), that the titans have no power. It would be as saying that there are no clerics.

So I don't know what Fiery Dragon will do (maybe wait for the PHB2 ?), but the SL 4E books must include druids, somewhere.


----------



## avin (Oct 13, 2008)

I just want to see the CC preview.


----------



## Jack99 (Oct 13, 2008)

Any news on when the monster book will be available?


----------



## avin (Oct 13, 2008)

Website says october. I contacted them and they said there would be a preview for october and release data would be pushed to november.


----------



## Klaus (Oct 13, 2008)

avin said:


> Website says october. I contacted them and they said there would be a preview for october and release data would be pushed to november.



I've been keeping tabs on this thread and forwarding it to the folks at FDP. They're currently selecting 3 creatures from the CC to post as a preview.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Oct 14, 2008)

Note, I don't want to sound like I'm saying a 4e SL campaign can fully emcompass everything that the 3rd ed had.

I am saying that without some massive setting changes, that a lot of the "missing" stuff can be glossed over.

In terms of "sucks", my group generally tended to enjoy the weapon wielding monks. My Monk was named Wind and a friend's was... can't remember the bastich, but I worshiped Corean and he worshipped the slave driver Chardun. Some interesting times there.

Does not having a monk class hurt the setting? Not if the first books choose to focus on things where the monk class isn't already ingrained. The various class sourcebooks have a lot of details and can easily focus a new GM whose never played the setting and doesn't know the intricate details, down a path of sell swords that may be heavy on mercenary action or cleaing away these points of darkness.

On the other hand, they could just include their own take on some of the missing stuff.


----------



## Flynn (Oct 14, 2008)

I certainly hope the Vermin Host are in the mix. They were an awesome creature concept, great as lower level bosses, and I got to have fun with the descriptions of their abilities in action.

Of course, I also hope that creatures from the final SL book, *Strange Lands*, also make it into the mix, as I contributed a few there.

I'm definitely buying into these, and I don't even play 4E.

Thanks, FD,
Flynn


----------



## haaz (Oct 14, 2008)

Klaus said:


> I've been keeping tabs on this thread and forwarding it to the folks at FDP. They're currently selecting 3 creatures from the CC to post as a preview.




That would be great !


----------



## Hussar (Oct 14, 2008)

Re:  Druids

I ran two campaigns in SL.  One set in Mithril and one set in Shelzar.  Druids played pretty much zero role in either campaign.  Depending on where you adventure, druids may or may not have had much impact.  If you're playing in Hornsaw, ok, fine.  I can totally see that.  But, I'm not sure that druids were quite as pervasive as some seem to think.

Heck, a rework of the warlock would make a pretty darn good Titan worshipper don't you think?  I always thought Binders fit better than druids anyway.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 14, 2008)

Hussar said:


> Heck, a rework of the warlock would make a pretty darn good Titan worshipper don't you think?  I always thought Binders fit better than druids anyway.



Acutally, this is a darn good idea.  Pacts with the Titans give them their power.  Each titan can have it's own pact (with some powers to go along with them).


----------



## ruemere (Oct 14, 2008)

Kudos for bringing back Scarred Lands. 

While I do not like 4E (and pretty much hate GSL in current form), it's always a good thing to seem one's favorite setting raised from the dead.
I'm not target audience anymore (I'd prefer to convert old books to Pathfinder than use 4E), but I may be willing to buy some new systemless stuff (if you decide to produce it).

Also, if you are to "burn" old PDFs because of the evil license (forcing people to break their stuff definitely counts as Evil), please let us know beforehand - while I own most printed versions, PDFs are much easier to search or use for making adventures.

Regards,
Ruemere

PS. Though it saddens me a lot to know that in a few months all old Scarred Lands products will have to disappear... it's like watching people setting dynamite charges to one's favorite historical building to build a shop mall in its place. Useful and needed, but still... it's unthinkable where I live, but I guess it's just the style this world rolls forward.


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## VictorC (Oct 15, 2008)

ruemere said:


> PS. Though it saddens me a lot to know that in a few months all old Scarred Lands products will have to disappear.




I havent seen a Scarred Lands product anywhere for years.


----------



## Voadam (Oct 15, 2008)

VictorC said:


> I havent seen a Scarred Lands product anywhere for years.




Here they are for $10 and $5 each until they have to be removed from sale under the GSL when the new 4e stuff comes out.

RPGNow.com - The leading source for indie RPGs


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## Psion (Oct 16, 2008)

Voadam said:


> Here they are for $10 and $5 each until they have to be removed from sale under the GSL when the new 4e stuff comes out.
> 
> RPGNow.com - The leading source for indie RPGs




Yep.

That's one thing that REALLY annoys me about the GSL. Formerly, pdfs had this "limitless stock" quality, meaning if I ever needed to pick something up that I found out I needed for a setting, I could just go to RPGnow and nab it.

On the bright side (if you want to call it that), most of the Scarred Lands pdfs were made from scans, not original electronic documents, so their utility wasn't that great in the first place. I'll probably be happy just to grab the few non-scan products before the door slams shut.


----------



## Covetous (Oct 18, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> ....So, what would you like to see? Favorite creatures from the original Creature collection? Ideas about the Scarred Lands? What stories would you like to see resolved? What characters would you like to step forward? What places should be brought to light, and which should be left to shadow?
> 
> 'Cause Sword & Sorcery is back and ready to game.
> 
> - James





Just caught wind of this thanx to Scarn.com. Anyway, one of the things I always felt led to SLCSs' demise (_besides the 3.5 switch & the destroyed continuity after same_) was that it went to other parts of the world instead of expanding on Ghelspad proper. So there's no mistake, here's what I'd like to see: 

Make Ghelspad the default setting & don't even think of going to other parts of the world until it's been covered in depth.
I know this was written in a previous post, but I too would like a Vesh sourcebook. This was one of the things that I think everyone was waiting on when the setting was under White Wolfs banner, but for whatever reason we never got. So please give us said sourcebook with info on it & the surrounding areas (_like the Ganjus forest, the kingdom of Mansk, etc_).
Also written in a previous post, a sourcebook on Darakeene. I know that a French company did it, but that don't help me as a guy who can only read English.
I'm glad the setting didn't go the way of the Dodo, though I wish that it's update/rebirth was under the Pathfinder system.


----------



## Fevil (Oct 21, 2008)

SandS_James said:


> Hi everyone,
> 
> Cat's out the bag, I guess.  Although, I was the guy hanging the 8-foot banner at GenCon, so I really should have known...
> 
> ...





I would like to see new content actually. Books about locations not covered by the S&S 3E stuff.

Wouldn't mind seeing my CC III submission making it into the new one either  (Momus' Marionette for those that are interested)

I'm glad to see the line being brought back. Cheers


----------



## Set (Oct 21, 2008)

Hussar said:


> Heck, a rework of the Warlock would make a pretty darn good Titan worshipper don't you think? I always thought Binders fit better than druids anyway.




Warlocks and Binders (with specific Pacts and Vestiges related to the Titans) would probably be better thematically than Sorcerers and Druids anyway.  In some cases, the class abilities / spell-lists of a Druid or Sorcerer were a poor fit for a Titan affiliation.  A Druid of Golthagga, the Titan of the Forge, eschewing metal, would be a hard sell, while a Sorcerer devoted to Chern would have a death of disease-causing spells.

A Druid or Sorcerer could be *forced* to fit a Titan's theme, via the use of a Scion feat or something, but they weren't always great fits, so it might be neat if the base assumptions were changed around a bit to better suit these thematic bits.

[This post made more sense the first time, but it got eated.  I give up!]


----------



## Psion (Oct 21, 2008)

Set said:


> Warlocks and Binders (with specific Pacts and Vestiges related to the Titans) would probably be better thematically than Sorcerers and Druids anyway.




Warlock could make a suitable substitute for the Sorcerer, but I don't agree about druids. Titans are tied to the nature of the land... the world of Scarn itself. That is a central unifying theme of the setting. That relates to the fundamental thematic schtick of the druid.


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## TheNinjaD (Oct 24, 2008)

Please don't change Scarred Lands.  Don't do to SL what Wizards of the Coast did to Forgotten Realms.  Even though I know it is unlikely it will influence your plans, I feel it with mentioning that if you do remodel the setting, not only will I not buy any of those books you release but I will likely never buy anything you company puts out.  I'm not saying that there can be no changes.  Changes can be good, on moderation.  I'm just saying PLEASE, for the sake of one of only a small few settings I did not create that I really enjoyed, use a scalpel and not a hack saw.

On another note, will you be taking outside submissions or is there a way someone could audition to help out in even some small way?


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## Voadam (Oct 24, 2008)

Psion said:


> Warlock could make a suitable substitute for the Sorcerer, but I don't agree about druids. Titans are tied to the nature of the land... the world of Scarn itself. That is a central unifying theme of the setting. That relates to the fundamental thematic schtick of the druid.




I agree that druids work for titan worshippers but binders work fine too I think. Torn apart and imprisoned titans as vestiges works for me. It also gives a good reason for binders to be reviled by people who accept clerics of evil gods.

Given the number and distinctive natures of the titans having various forms of druids works for me too. I could see a Player's Handbook II style one, an Advanced Player's Guide one from XRP, an elemental style one from Goodman's Forgotten Heroes book, and several tailored MM style druid "monsters" each serving different titans.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 24, 2008)

Voadam said:


> Given the number and distinctive natures of the titans having various forms of druids works for me too. I could see a Player's Handbook II style one, an Advanced Player's Guide one from XRP, an elemental style one from Goodman's Forgotten Heroes book, and several tailored MM style druid "monsters" each serving different titans.



This is what I imagine as well, and it would certainly help make SL4e all kinds of awesome.


----------



## Set (Oct 24, 2008)

Voadam said:


> I agree that druids work for titan worshippers but binders work fine too I think. Torn apart and imprisoned titans as vestiges works for me. It also gives a good reason for binders to be reviled by people who accept clerics of evil gods.
> 
> Given the number and distinctive natures of the titans having various forms of druids works for me too. I could see a Player's Handbook II style one, an Advanced Player's Guide one from XRP, an elemental style one from Goodman's Forgotten Heroes book, and several tailored MM style druid "monsters" each serving different titans.




That would be ideal.  A shiftery Gormoth Druid who curses others with debilitating transformations, and alters his own form offensively and defensively could be one class of 'monster,' while a Druid of Chern might inflict various contagions and create controllery swarms of vermin in various squares, and the Golthaggan Druid would have glowing heated metal plates forged into his flesh, and attack with heated spikes of metal embedded into his limbs.

The 3.0/3.5 Druid class, IMO, didn't really 'mesh' well with several of the Titans specific themes.


----------



## Zaukrie (Oct 24, 2008)

Did I miss them? Have there been any updates on the timing of the books (especially the monster book)?


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Oct 24, 2008)

Zaukrie said:


> Did I miss them? Have there been any updates on the timing of the books (especially the monster book)?




I thought I read somewhere they weren't going to be ready till next year, but I can't find the quite anywhere...


----------



## Psion (Oct 25, 2008)

Voadam said:


> I agree that druids work for titan worshippers but binders work fine too I think. Torn apart and imprisoned titans as vestiges works for me. It also gives a good reason for binders to be reviled by people who accept clerics of evil gods.




Oh, absolutely. I skipped mentioning them in my response since they weren't a core 4e class... but I think conceptually they are a better fit for Scarred Lands' Titans than anything in the pre-4e D&D metasetting.


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## Noumenon (Oct 25, 2008)

What a coincidence that I see a thread about Fiery Dragon the day I'm getting ready to run my group through The Giant's Skull.  I'll be paying attention to this.


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## Klaus (Oct 25, 2008)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I thought I read somewhere they weren't going to be ready till next year, but I can't find the quite anywhere...



Some of the art is still being done. Fiery Dragon is a couple of products behind on the printing side (Counter Collection 4e Heroic 1 and BattleBox 4e are being prepped for printing as we speak... er... read each other). But the intention is to come out with a kickass Creature Collection asap.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Oct 25, 2008)

Klaus said:


> Some of the art is still being done. Fiery Dragon is a couple of products behind on the printing side (Counter Collection 4e Heroic 1 and BattleBox 4e are being prepped for printing as we speak... er... read each other). But the intention is to come out with a kickass Creature Collection asap.




I have never delt with fiery dragon, but I loved sword and sorcerry...so I don't mind waiting for quality...I was just wonder on time tables


----------



## Psion (Oct 25, 2008)

So, are we going to see Gates of Oblivion 4e? 

(In joke  )


----------



## JoeGKushner (Oct 25, 2008)

Klaus said:


> Some of the art is still being done. Fiery Dragon is a couple of products behind on the printing side (Counter Collection 4e Heroic 1 and BattleBox 4e are being prepped for printing as we speak... er... read each other). But the intention is to come out with a kickass Creature Collection asap.




Considering some of the simple quality errors that should've been caugh by all parties thus far, I'd rather it be done right than done quick.


----------



## Noumenon (Oct 25, 2008)

> Fiery Dragon is a couple of products behind on the printing side (Counter Collection 4e Heroic 1 and BattleBox 4e are being prepped for printing as we speak...




Forgive me for going off topic, but I found that the original Counter Collections are out of print and I can't buy them anywhere.  Am I right about that?


----------



## Klaus (Oct 25, 2008)

I'll have to ask the Dragons-In-Charge about that.


----------



## DaveMage (Oct 25, 2008)

Noumenon said:


> Forgive me for going off topic, but I found that the original Counter Collections are out of print and I can't buy them anywhere.  Am I right about that?




Stiggybaby has some of the counters:
Fiery Dragon Productions: Stiggybaby's

But if you mean the first Counter Collections, then yes, I couldn't find them in my usual haunts either.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 25, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> Stiggybaby has some of the counters:
> Fiery Dragon Productions: Stiggybaby's
> 
> But if you mean the first Counter Collections, then yes, I couldn't find them in my usual haunts either.




You can still buy the Counter Collection V2 Gold on RPG now.  These are jpgs of all the images.  And you can get the counter collection images that match up with the monsters for the XRP monster series.


----------



## Noumenon (Oct 26, 2008)

They have the originals there, too.  I think I'm just bad at Googling -- but a couple months ago I really tried to buy them and I couldn't find them for sale.  I guess I just Googled "counter collection," found Claudio's art gallery, then tried Fiery Dragon and they were sold out.

While I was looking at RPGnow I found the new concept of standup counters -- do any of those exist for basic D&D 3.5?


----------



## Klaus (Oct 26, 2008)

Noumenon said:


> They have the originals there, too.  I think I'm just bad at Googling -- but a couple months ago I really tried to buy them and I couldn't find them for sale.  I guess I just Googled "counter collection," found Claudio's art gallery, then tried Fiery Dragon and they were sold out.
> 
> While I was looking at RPGnow I found the new concept of standup counters -- do any of those exist for basic D&D 3.5?



Counter Collection 4e Heroic 1, containing all the creatures of the Heroic tier, is printing as we speak.


----------



## Covetous (Oct 27, 2008)

Everyone is so worried about 4e SL not having a Druid class.  If that's the case why not simply make the class?  I've heard off & on that WoTC is eventually gonna come out with another book just with new classes, some that are missing from the 4e PHB (_like the Bard, Monk & Druid_) but others that're new.  

Fiery Dragon has an opportunity to "one up" WoTC in this fashion & make it their own in the bargain.  

If anything I think SLs 4e Druid (_& to a lesser extent the Monk class_) has an opportunity to be unique.  Think of all the potential class paths &/or powers that could be put in to diversify who a Druid folows.  How would a Mormo following Druid differ from one who folows Denev?  How would one who follows Thulkas differ from those two, & so on & so forth.


----------



## DaveMage (Oct 27, 2008)

Covetous said:


> Everyone is so worried about 4e SL not having a Druid class.  If that's the case why not simply make the class?




Cuz if WotC makes a cooler one than the one you create, then it makes your setting look lame.


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## GMforPowergamers (Oct 27, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> Cuz if WotC makes a cooler one than the one you create, then it makes your setting look lame.




and lets face facts...trying to one up the 1000 lbs garilla isn't such a good idea


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## Voadam (Oct 27, 2008)

JoeGKushner said:


> Considering some of the simple quality errors that should've been caugh by all parties thus far, I'd rather it be done right than done quick.




I agree. Plus I'm only partway through buying the OGL Scarred Lands pdfs I want. I still have CCII, two player's guides, a smattering of the other scarred lands sourcebooks and modules, and the arthurian relics and rituals I want to pick up before the GSL clause kicks in.


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## catsclaw227 (Oct 27, 2008)

Covetous said:


> Everyone is so worried about 4e SL not having a Druid class.  If that's the case why not simply make the class?  I've heard off & on that WoTC is eventually gonna come out with another book just with new classes, some that are missing from the 4e PHB (_like the Bard, Monk & Druid_) but others that're new.



Well, we've already got two druids for 4e, done by Goodman Games' Forgotten Heroes and XRP's Advanced Players guide. I think 4e SL would be best served to utilize any and all of them, including the WOTC 4e druid due out in March.  They can make each Titan's worshipers a little different like the Cleric's Channel Divinity feats, and they can use either of the druids that better fit the Titan in question.


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## Covetous (Oct 27, 2008)

DaveMage said:


> Cuz if WotC makes a cooler one than the one you create, then it makes your setting look lame.






GMforPowergamers said:


> and lets face facts...trying to one up the 1000 lbs garilla isn't such a good idea




Maybe so, but _it has_ been done. Case in point: _Monte Cooks Ranger_ when compared to the 3e Ranger. I'm hard-pressed to find anyone who's said that his Ranger is inferior to WoTCs 3e, 3.5 & Complete Warrior versions (_in fact it's been pretty unanimous that his Ranger is superior to all the 3e WoTC incarnations of same_). If he did it, Fiery Dragon can too. 

If they (_FDP_) won't make an SL Druid, then at least have the powers &/or feats so that when the PHB2 comes out there'll already be the paths for followers of the other Titans & it'll be simply a matter of incorporating them into the class. For the sake of arguement let's say you make the class & it isn't as good as the one WoTC eventually makes: Even if you make the class & it is inferior to the one WoTC eventually comes out with, so what? There's nothing that sez that you can't "upgrade" to their version if you find yours lacking, just as there's nothing that sez you can't upgrade your own character class. 

@catsclaw227; I didn't know about the Goodmans Games version. I'm not exactly interested in 4e, though it don't mean that I don't want the setting to thrive under it.  I'll buy SL stuff under any edition so long as the quality is there.


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## DaveMage (Oct 27, 2008)

Covetous said:


> Maybe so, but _it has_ been done. Case in point: _Monte Cooks Ranger_ when compared to the 3e Ranger. I'm hard-pressed to find anyone who's said that his Ranger is inferior to WoTCs 3e, 3.5 & Complete Warrior versions (_in fact it's been pretty unanimous that his Ranger is superior to all the 3e WoTC incarnations of same_). If he did it, Fiery Dragon can too.




Yeah, but the official version was already out when Monte made his ranger.  The problem here is that without knowing the official version, any one that's created elsewhere might be lame.


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## GMforPowergamers (Oct 28, 2008)

Covetous said:


> Maybe so, but _it has_ been done. Case in point: _Monte Cooks Ranger_ when compared to the 3e Ranger. I'm hard-pressed to find anyone who's said that his Ranger is inferior to WoTCs 3e, 3.5 & Complete Warrior versions (_in fact it's been pretty unanimous that his Ranger is superior to all the 3e WoTC incarnations of same_). If he did it, Fiery Dragon can too.



 don't get me wrong...I think makeing better then WotC is possible...but it is a gamble



DaveMage said:


> Yeah, but the official version was already out when Monte made his ranger.  The problem here is that without knowing the official version, any one that's created elsewhere might be lame.




and once again I must ay why gamble when you can just wait for WotC to do the heavy lifting...


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## Kelon (Oct 29, 2008)

For Relics & Rituals they should wait until Players Handbook 2 is in the stores. It would be the best to asume that the Scarred Land Players will have them and use them. Generelly I Would prefer the New Cosmology and I thik Penubral Lords / Shadowfell and Elves hailing from the Feywild would fit.
For further product would be a world guide great and I would love to get finally a world map. They should not afraid of changes to make the setting more connected.
I hope the Creature Collection is hitting the shelves soon. I Would like to start the Serpent Amophara Adventures with 4 E soon.
Sorry I´m not used to write in english.

Oliver


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## haaz (Nov 4, 2008)

About the Creature Collection, someone was speaking about a preview... Does anyone has got news about this ? (or best, a release date of the finished product).


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## Kelon (Nov 22, 2008)

No news for the Scarred Lands?


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## Lord Mhoram (Nov 22, 2008)

No news yet?

The website still shows the CC as Oct.


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## JoeGKushner (Nov 22, 2008)

I love the material these guys put out but in terms of actually getting the product out, they suffer what many game publishers do. Complete inability to accurate project timelines due to reality. Hell, Of Sound Mind 2 anyone? 

It's okay though. They did the Ptlous map and that gives them a lot of leeway.


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## Conway (Nov 22, 2008)

You would think they could at least provide fans and potential customers with an update!


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## Klaus (Nov 23, 2008)

Sorry for the delay, guys. Fiery Dragon has a preview of the Creature Collection ready to go up, and the book is undergoing final layout (all text is done, all art is done, only a few technical details to go).

I hope the preview is up this week, with the entire Asaatthi entry.


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## Kelon (Nov 25, 2008)

The qualtity of the product is the most important part. 
Thanks for the answers Claudio. Could you tell us if we see player races write up in the CC?
The table of content as a preview would be great to.


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## Klaus (Nov 25, 2008)

Kelon said:


> The qualtity of the product is the most important part.
> Thanks for the answers Claudio. Could you tell us if we see player races write up in the CC?
> The table of content as a preview would be great to.



I've passed those questions along to the knowledgeable folks at FDP. I can say I did art for the Asaatthi (depicting 3 varieties), the Angler Ooze, the Tattooed Mage and a Ratfolk.


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## avin (Nov 25, 2008)

Claudio, what's the art direction? Closer to CC third edition or closer to 4E MM?

The cover looks very different from the original books and get me a bit worried... it's good art but it seems to step more to the cartoonish size than the previous edition.

Hope it looks like this: http://www.enworld.org/Pozas/Portfolio/tiefling_fey_warlock.htm


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## Klaus (Nov 25, 2008)

Here's the promised preview:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/publis...4th-edition-preview-asaatthi.html#post4563531

Should answer lots of questions on the look of it.


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## Kelon (Nov 25, 2008)

Thank you!
But you know, now we want more


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## Kelon (Feb 12, 2009)

From the Fiery Dragon Homepage:
"Creature Collection will be released in PDF February 2009 [print edition April 2009] followed by Relics & Rituals in July 2009."


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## GMforPowergamers (Feb 13, 2009)

Kelon said:


> From the Fiery Dragon Homepage:
> "Creature Collection will be released in PDF February 2009 [print edition April 2009] followed by Relics & Rituals in July 2009."




and there was much rejoiceing


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## avin (Feb 13, 2009)

There was release dates for 2008 also, so I'm not holding my breath...


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## JoeGKushner (Feb 13, 2009)

avin said:


> There was release dates for 2008 also, so I'm not holding my breath...




It's probable that they may have it or that it is already printed on the slow boat from China.

On the other hand, as much as I love the FPD guys, I'll believe it when it's in my hands.


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## haaz (Feb 13, 2009)

I hope it is the last time that the CC is delayed...


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## catsclaw227 (Feb 13, 2009)

Maybe Klaus will pop back in and let us know..

[Breaking out his Summon Artist IX scroll]


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## Conway (Feb 13, 2009)

avin said:


> There was release dates for 2008 also, so I'm not holding my breath...



I hate to have a poopy attitude, since I truly love the Scarred Lands, but the delays have certainly tempered my initial overwhelming excitement.


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## jephlewis (Feb 13, 2009)

Conway said:


> I hate to have a poopy attitude, since I truly love the Scarred Lands, but the delays have certainly tempered my initial overwhelming excitement.



My money is a little tight right now, so i'm willing to wait.


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## Klaus (Feb 13, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> Maybe Klaus will pop back in and let us know..
> 
> [Breaking out his Summon Artist IX scroll]



We're upping the page count on CC by including more creatures, more art and more templates. Stuff you'll love about CC4e, even if you don't play in the Scarred Lands: An appendix with characters of each class statted up as monsters, for levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30, coupled with an appendix of Racial Templates so you can turn these generics into any PC race (or half-orc!  ).


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## catsclaw227 (Feb 13, 2009)

Klaus, is there a hard date for the PDF?


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## Jack99 (Feb 13, 2009)

avin said:


> There was release dates for 2008 also, so I'm not holding my breath...






JoeGKushner said:


> It's probable that they may have it or that it is already printed on the slow boat from China.
> 
> On the other hand, as much as I love the FPD guys, I'll believe it when it's in my hands.






Conway said:


> I hate to have a poopy attitude, since I truly love the Scarred Lands, but the delays have certainly tempered my initial overwhelming excitement.






catsclaw227 said:


> Klaus, is there a hard date for the PDF?




I am certainly not Klaus, but rumour has it that it will be out shortly after the new and improved GSL...


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## Klaus (Feb 13, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> Klaus, is there a hard date for the PDF?



We're hard at work on it, non-stop, everyday, and it will be out the door (eletronically) a few days after it is ready. FDP is putting all of its resources to getting Creature Collection 4e out in the market.


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## jephlewis (Feb 14, 2009)

Klaus said:


> We're upping the page count on CC by including more creatures, more art and more templates. Stuff you'll love about CC4e, even if you don't play in the Scarred Lands: An appendix with characters of each class statted up as monsters, for levels 5, 10, 15, 20, 25 and 30, coupled with an appendix of Racial Templates so you can turn these generics into any PC race (or half-orc!  ).






Klaus said:


> We're hard at work on it, non-stop, everyday, and it will be out the door (eletronically) a few days after it is ready. FDP is putting all of its resources to getting Creature Collection 4e out in the market.



Hey, if you're gonna put more stuff in, i'll wait, like, another 6 months 


Seriously, this sounds awesome!


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## Conway (Feb 15, 2009)

More stuff is good.  Thanks for the update, Klaus!


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## Nightchilde-2 (Feb 15, 2009)

Klaus said:


> This.
> 
> Also, here's a closer look at the Creature Collection cover:




Please let this be better than the 3.x Creature Collection was.  Especially the 3.0 let's-get-it-out-the-door-before-WotC's-version-errors-and-bad-mechanics-be-damned version.


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## Klaus (Feb 15, 2009)

Nightchilde-2 said:


> Please let this be better than the 3.x Creature Collection was.  Especially the 3.0 let's-get-it-out-the-door-before-WotC's-version-errors-and-bad-mechanics-be-damned version.



At least two of us working on the book are experienced with 4e, me and editor/writer Scott Holden. We're both keeping an eye out for mechanics and other little details.


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## Nytmare (Jan 9, 2011)

Did this ever appear?  Did Fiery Dragon try tackling any other other Scarred Lands books?


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## Fiery James (Jan 9, 2011)

Nytmare said:


> Did this ever appear?  Did Fiery Dragon try tackling any other other Scarred Lands books?




Hi Nytmare, nice thread necro. 

Creature Collection did appear, and is available to order from our website (Fiery Dragon) or through any local game store. 

That was pretty much where our 4e SL work ended, though. I was hoping that the first book would start some interest in the product that could justify the personal expense, but it tanked so hard and did so poorly that we simply had to kill projects in the works or go bankrupt within a year. 

It was the biggest and most complicated project we'd ever released, and I'm proud of the work everyone (especially Claudio, Scott and Todd) did on the book, but it certainly came at a cost of internal exhaustion and it's poor sales plus some unexpected unemployment forced us to refocus and realign the FDP in a major way. 

We've managed to survive and continue on a smaller scale, but we've got some big mountains to climb to get back to where we once were (even on our super small scale). We do have about 12 cool and interesting product passed concept stage, but I'll only reveal those as they are completed (lessons learned!)

-jb


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## Stormonu (Jan 9, 2011)

Too bad too, C&C4e was a very awesome book.  I bought it, but unfortunately I have no interest in 4E anymore.

Have you guys considered doing anything for Pathfinder (or Savage Worlds)?


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## Fiery James (Jan 9, 2011)

Stormonu said:


> Too bad too, C&C4e was a very awesome book.  I bought it, but unfortunately I have no interest in 4E anymore.
> 
> Have you guys considered doing anything for Pathfinder (or Savage Worlds)?




Right now, we're keeping products pretty generic, actually, focusing on tabletop accessories that can work with most fantasy RPGs. Anything more specific (like adventures) is beyond our resources at the moment.


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## Mouseferatu (Jan 10, 2011)

Fiery James said:


> That was pretty much where our 4e SL work ended, though. I was hoping that the first book would start some interest in the product that could justify the personal expense, but it tanked so hard and did so poorly that we simply had to kill projects in the works or go bankrupt within a year.




Damn, I'm sorry to hear that. I mean, I assumed the whole thing was a no-go when our talks about it ended, but still, it's sad to hear in such uncertain terms that there won't be any SL 4E materials to create.


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## Mark CMG (Jan 10, 2011)

The Fiery Dragon gang are some of the best people in the gaming industry.


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## jaerdaph (Jan 10, 2011)

I'd love to see Fiery Dragon start exploring some other open game license options, like Pathfinder and ICONS.


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