# The Night of the Doctor - new mini Doctor Who episode.



## Bagpuss (Nov 14, 2013)

http://www.doctorwho.tv/whats-new/video/mini-episode-the-night-of-the-doctor/

[video=youtube;-U3jrS-uhuo]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-U3jrS-uhuo[/video]


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Holy crap!


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## Bagpuss (Nov 14, 2013)

It does raise a very important question.

[sblock]Why don't locks deadlock by default?[/sblock]


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## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Nov 14, 2013)

Fantastic!


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## HardcoreDandDGirl (Nov 14, 2013)

So to all the big who fans who saw all the shows... has he been to that planet before, and in what version?


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## The_Silversword (Nov 14, 2013)

The Fourth Doctor was the first one to encounter the sisterhood. You can read more about them on the Dr Who wiki.
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Sisterhood_of_Karn


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## Bagpuss (Nov 14, 2013)

HardcoreDandDGirl said:


> So to all the big who fans who saw all the shows... has he been to that planet before, and in what version?





Fourth (on TV) others in books - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Sisterhood_of_Karn

[sblock]Notice for the reflection they have used a younger image of John Hurt[/sblock]


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## The_Silversword (Nov 14, 2013)

Just wanted to add, nice to see Paul Mcgann back in action, I always thought he made a great Doctor and wasnt really given a chance.


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## Herschel (Nov 14, 2013)

Oh
Hell
Yeah
!
Love me some Eighth Doctor.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Bagpuss said:


> Fourth (on TV) others in books - http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Sisterhood_of_Karn
> 
> [sblock]Notice for the reflection they have used a younger image of John Hurt[/sblock]




Yeah, I loved that.  Veyr nice touch.

So he's the real 8th incarnation as most people thought, but doesn't use the name "The Doctor".  Looks like he's around for a looooong time - he has to age to John Hurt's current age!


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Well, that answers the questions.

But, darn it!  McGann was robbed.  He did such a good job!  I would have loved to see more of his Doctor.

It also elucidates yet another place where the Doctor can get more regenerations....


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

There's definitely room for a whole load of "McGann saves people during the Time War" minisodes if they every felt like making them.


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## Herschel (Nov 14, 2013)

Yeah, I like how he says, basically, 'I guess tehre's no need for a Doctor at this point' choosing and knowing full well what he needs to do.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Holy crap!




I guess the question for us new-who fans, is who's Paul McGann?  I'm guessing he's one of the pre-Eccleston doctors (start of the new-who era).

And who's the guy he turned into (they showed a fuzzy reflection of his face, and I gather he's one of the famous ones).


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> I guess the question for us new-who fans, is who's Paul McGann?  I'm guessing he's one of the pre-Eccleston doctors (start of the new-who era).




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Doctor_Who_(film)

There was a period in which the BBC stopped making Doctor Who.  McGann was the Doctor for the pilot movie in which they tried to start it up as a show in the US.  The movie wasn't very good, but that was by no means McGann's fault.  He did an excellent job in it.  I've always wanted to see more of him in the role.

It was only one movie/pilot, and they could have ignored it, but several pieces of fiction were written, and McGann lent his voice to several audio plays - so the BBC has accepted him as canon - the 8th incarnation of the Doctor.  



> And who's the guy he turned into (they showed a fuzzy reflection of his face, and I gather he's one of the famous ones).




Not yet.  In the upcoming 50th anniversary, there's a meeting of several incarnation of the Doctor.  Hurt's will be one of them, a previously unseen Doctor from the period of the Time War.  Until the Anniversary special, we all thought McGann was the 8th, and Eccelston was the 9th Doctor.  Hurt's is being inserted in between, making Eccelston actually the 10th.


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## Bagpuss (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> I guess the question for us new-who fans, is who's Paul McGann?  I'm guessing he's one of the pre-Eccleston doctors (start of the new-who era).




He was what was assumed to be the one directly before Eccleston, since he was in a one off made for TV Doctor Who movie (1996) the last time the Doctor was on TV before the newer series. You actually see Sylvester McCoy who was the Doctor until the old series finished in 1989 turn into McGann. Linking the old series with the film.



> And who's the guy he turned into (they showed a fuzzy reflection of his face, and I gather he's one of the famous ones).






Spoiler



He's John Hurt, although a younger looking one than the actors current age, John Hurt was the guy seen at the end of the most recent modern episode of Doctor Who. You never see McGann turn into Eccleston, so there was no direct link to the old series or the movie most people just assumed Eccleston followed McGann, until that episode. Since that episode people suspected, (and now confirmed) that John Hurt to be a Doctor between McGann and Eccleston, and the one that fought in the Time War.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Bagpuss said:


> He was what was assumed to be the one directly before Eccleston, since he was in a one off made for TV Doctor Who movie (1996) the last time the Doctor was on TV before the newer series. You actually see Sylvester McCoy who was the Doctor until the old series finished in 1989 turn into McGann. Linking the old series with the film.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Gotcha.  Now it has context.  Thanks.

There's probably lots of references in the new show we miss because we weren't old-whovians.  It's obvious The Master was a character from back then, but I have no clue what the Valeyard is/was and why that's a big deal (mentioned from some other Who threads)


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Don't worry about the Valeyard.  It's random speculation, but it's wrong.

John Hurt is in the trailers you've seen in the other thread.  He's the older actor with the goatee.  The fuzzy image in the mirror is some clever insertion of a young John Hurt using, presumably, some footage from one of his movies.  He (to our knowledge) is only in one episode - the upcoming 50th Anniversary Special - and this minosode reveals what most people guessed: he's an incarnation of the Doctor between Paul McGann (8th) and Eccleston (9th).  The end of the last series had him feature very briefly, with Matt Smith (11th) shunning him for acts as yet unknown, but which we assume were what ended the Time War in genocide.  From the sounds of what Matt Smith's Doctor said, and now confirmed by this minsode, John Hurt doesn't take the name of the Doctor.  So Tennant and Smith are still the 10th and 11th Doctors, although not the 10th and 11th incarnation of the person himself.


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## HardcoreDandDGirl (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Don't worry about the Valeyard.  It's random speculation, but it's wrong.



 I keep hoping that is the name Hurt takes instead of the doctor.


> John Hurt doesn't take the name of the Doctor.  So Tennant and Smith are still the 10th and 11th Doctors, although not the 10th and 11th incarnation of the person himself.



 so far I hope you are right, but even the end of this has him listed as 'war doctor' and the current staff (mostly moffet) sometimes takes the lazy way out, and may just call him the doctor anyway...


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> So Tennant and Smith are still the 10th and 11th Doctors, although not the 10th and 11th incarnation of the person himself.




And, the reason the numbering is an issue is that the canon says that a Time Lord gets 12 regenerations, and so 13 incarnations. Inserting Hurt means that the guy stepping in after Matt Smith leaves will be the "last" Doctor.

What it actually means is that, somewhere in his tenure, the new guy will have to find an excuse for more regenerations, which can be a cool story.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Umbran said:


> And, the reason the numbering is an issue is that the canon says that a Time Lord gets 12 regenerations, and so 13 incarnations. Inserting Hurt means that the guy stepping in after Matt Smith leaves will be the "last" Doctor.
> 
> What it actually means is that, somewhere in his tenure, the new guy will have to find an excuse for more regenerations, which can be a cool story.




Yes and Yes.

I never assumed the 12 regen limit was something they'd stick to, more like something the writers  declared in the old series when they thought they'd never hit the limit (kind of like using 2 digits to store the year in a database).

As such, now that the 12 regen limit is looming, if Dr. Who is popular, they'll come up with a way to bypass it.  if it is waning, they'll use it as a way to finally end the series.  (until 10 years later, when somebody tries to revamp/reboot Dr. Who)


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## HardcoreDandDGirl (Nov 14, 2013)

Umbran said:


> What it actually means is that, somewhere in his tenure, the new guy will have to find an excuse for more regenerations, which can be a cool story.



 We had a thread with a lot of excuses why some of the regens don't count. 3 into three was forced with no death 3 into 4 was dead and not regening needing a 'kick start' from another time lord. I can't remember witch one but one of them bonded with another thing called the watcher. eccleston into tenet just absorbed all the energy of 'time god' rose but wouldn't have died other wise.   So any of them can be called a 'free change' if they wanted to, now this one includes a new potion added in.    my pet theory is still with no other timelords the regen energy is way easier to get any he has an almost unlimted number of lives now.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Don't worry about the Valeyard.  It's random speculation, but it's wrong.
> 
> John Hurt is in the trailers you've seen in the other thread.  He's the older actor with the goatee.  The fuzzy image in the mirror is some clever insertion of a young John Hurt using, presumably, some footage from one of his movies.  He (to our knowledge) is only in one episode - the upcoming 50th Anniversary Special - and this minosode reveals what most people guessed: he's an incarnation of the Doctor between Paul McGann (8th) and Eccleston (9th).  The end of the last series had him feature very briefly, with Matt Smith (11th) shunning him for acts as yet unknown, but which we assume were what ended the Time War in genocide.  From the sounds of what Matt Smith's Doctor said, and now confirmed by this minsode, John Hurt doesn't take the name of the Doctor.  So Tennant and Smith are still the 10th and 11th Doctors, although not the 10th and 11th incarnation of the person himself.




Asside from not knowing WHEN Hurt effectively kicked into the series, I'd gathered the rest.  Hurt's the incarnation that put the hurt on in the timewar.  Call him Doctor Hurt. 

What's starting to get more clear, is that this 50th anniversary episode is going to feature Hurt.  Having not known the plans for the episode, I assumed the regular series would introduce Hurt as a character alongside the current doctor.

Though it's also not clear when Matt Smith steps out and the new guy who's name I forget but he helped with some recent zombie war as a cleverly named W.H.O. Doctor.

given that we lag in the US, my assumption now is:

50th Anniversay episode features Hurt, and maybe a few remaining doctor actors (or not) as an homage to their work (or CGI trick like we saw with the current companion girl with the old doctors)


Then the next season we haven't seen starts with matt Smith, and somewhere along the line, the new guy switches in.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> What's starting to get more clear, is that this 50th anniversary episode is going to feature Hurt.  Having not known the plans for the episode, I assumed the regular series would introduce Hurt as a character alongside the current doctor.




Yeah, he's in the trailers for it.  I think that's pretty much a giveaway!



> Though it's also not clear when Matt Smith steps out and the new guy who's name I forget but he helped with some recent zombie war as a cleverly named W.H.O. Doctor.




Peter Capaldi.  Christmas Special this year (on XMas Day).


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 14, 2013)

They are showing the Day of the Doctor on the big screen here.  Sure, it is also on the small screen but it would be cool to see it in the theater.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Hand of Evil said:


> They are showing the Day of the Doctor on the big screen here.  Sure, it is also on the small screen but it would be cool to see it in the theater.




Yup!  We have tickets to see it in the cinema on the 23rd.  Can.  Not.  Wait!

And the day before we're going to the 50th Anniversary Celebration at the Excel.  It'll be a good couple of days all in all!  And it's all just a week away now!


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

HardcoreDandDGirl said:


> We had a thread with a lot of excuses why some of the regens don't count.




I know.  But passing it by with just a reference to a past event is lame.  They have a chance to do a story, possibly an epic one, and I think the producers would be pretty dumb to pass it up.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Incidentally, "Will it Hurt?" is a _terrible_ joke...


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> There's definitely room for a whole load of "McGann saves people during the Time War" minisodes if they every felt like making them.




I'd watch those. Repeatedly and with great joy. I just downloaded several of the Big Finish audios of McGann's Doctor on the strength of this minisode alone.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Incidentally, "Will it Hurt?" is a _terrible_ joke...




Oof. That went right past me.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Yeah, he's in the trailers for it.  I think that's pretty much a giveaway!
> 
> 
> 
> Peter Capaldi.  Christmas Special this year (on XMas Day).




Hadn't seen the trailers...


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> Hadn't seen the trailers...




Eh?  You commented on the trailer.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

So how long was Hurt the Doctor?  Because Matt Smith didn't age a day in 300 years;  Time Lords clearly age incredibly slowly.  But John Hurt goes from youngish to elderly.  He must have been around for a long, long time.


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## trappedslider (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Incidentally, "Will it Hurt?" is a _terrible_ joke...




It does however set up any number of puns in the show...




Morrus said:


> So how long was Hurt the Doctor? Because Matt Smith didn't age a day in 300 years; Time Lords clearly age incredibly slowly. But John Hurt goes from youngish to elderly. He must have been around for a long, long time.




Could be from the stress......


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## Herschel (Nov 14, 2013)

Yeah, perhaps the time war leaches his vitality.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> Eh?  You commented on the trailer.





I didn't watch the videos.  I posted on the thread about the trailer asking questions to confirm that the 11-23-2013 event you were talking about (that the trailer was for) was the same thing I have tickets for on 11-25-2013.  So I was only there to clarify my understanding about the special showing event that the trailers were advertising.

The danger I face is you BBC guys get everything before we do, so I have to be careful to not take Spoiler Damage for stuff you've already seen, but hasn't been available to us yet.

As in this case, everybody will get to see the Day of the Doctor before I do through no fault of anybody's. No fault as in it's not like I delayed seeing it, this event does not exist in my market until 11-25-2013.


Thanks again for sharing the information, as I like Dr. Who, but am obviously not as well informed.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> No fault as in it's not like I delayed seeing it, this event does not exist in my market until 11-25-2013.




I thought it was simulcasting on TV in 77 countries around the world on the 23rd.  I assumed your country was one of those?


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx is an island unto himself.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> I thought it was simulcasting on TV in 77 countries around the world on the 23rd.  I assumed your country was one of those?




Hence why I was asking odd questions about it, as your statement, and the date on my tickets don't match (and there wasn't a choice of dates).

Here's a linky (not trying to spam, this is simply what was advertised in the theatre):
http://www.fathomevents.com/event/doctor-who-the-day-of-the-doctor

I think I smell a clue from this other article:
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/10/24/ny-ncm-fathom-dr-who-idUSnBw246028a+100+BSW20131024

"Eleven U.S. Cities to Join First Global Simulcast on November 23
Expanding to over 300 Cinemas for Only One Night
with NCM Fathom Events on November 25"

Apparently the 4th largest city in the US may be getting it, but not in all/most theatres.  I have no clue what theatres are getting it, as I hadn't seen anything except the specific ads on the wall in my local theatres for the 25th.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Remus Lupin said:


> Janx is an island unto himself.




It's a dessert island.

I stopped working on my raft of Twizzler sticks to sail the chocolate syrup ocean, because I kept chewing holes in it.


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> So how long was Hurt the Doctor?  Because Matt Smith didn't age a day in 300 years;  Time Lords clearly age incredibly slowly.  But John Hurt goes from youngish to elderly.  He must have been around for a long, long time.




Subjective time, at least.  He is in the middle of a Time War, after all.  By the mini-episode, it apparently threatened not just to be destructive, not just to kill everyone, but to actually destroy the Universe.  Who knows how many loops he lived how many times over, how many knots in the time-space continuum he had to traverse?


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> Apparently the 4th largest city in the US may be getting it, but not in all/most theatres.  I have no clue what theatres are getting it, as I hadn't seen anything except the specific ads on the wall in my local theatres for the 25th.




It completely boggles me that no theater in the Boston area has it for the original airing, and only a couple for the following days.

Unfortunately for me, I may have to wait to see it - my wife is having surgery on the 22nd, and she most certainly has dibs on the TV while recovering.  Thank goodness for DVRs.


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## Morrus (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> Hence why I was asking odd questions about it, as your statement, and the date on my tickets don't match (and there wasn't a choice of dates).
> 
> Here's a linky (not trying to spam, this is simply what was advertised in the theatre):
> http://www.fathomevents.com/event/doctor-who-the-day-of-the-doctor
> ...




No - the cinema stuff is just icing. It's a TV episode being simulcast worldwide on the 23rd.  Seeing it in the cinema is a bonus.


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## Janx (Nov 14, 2013)

Umbran said:


> It completely boggles me that no theater in the Boston area has it for the original airing, and only a couple for the following days.
> 
> Unfortunately for me, I may have to wait to see it - my wife is having surgery on the 22nd, and she most certainly has dibs on the TV while recovering.  Thank goodness for DVRs.




Well good luck on her surgery and spouse-sitting.  I've had my own batch of that last week.

Hope you can make it to the later viewing at least.


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## Umbran (Nov 14, 2013)

Janx said:


> Well good luck on her surgery and spouse-sitting.  I've had my own batch of that last week.




Thank you.  

One upshot of this is that, for the next couple of months, she's not supposed to be doing much.  Which means a lot of time with the TV.  Which means finding new shows to watch.  Which means she's actually asked for me to show her some Doctor Who (hooray Nextflix and On Demand!).  She's a sci-fi and fantasy fan, but she didn't grow up on the old Who like I did, so the new show held no particular draw for her.  I may show her the start of Eccleston's run tonight or tomorrow night, even.



> Hope you can make it to the later viewing at least.




I'll catch it on my TiVo, and probably watch it as some point when she's napping


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## MarkB (Nov 14, 2013)

Morrus said:


> So how long was Hurt the Doctor?  Because Matt Smith didn't age a day in 300 years;  Time Lords clearly age incredibly slowly.  But John Hurt goes from youngish to elderly.  He must have been around for a long, long time.




I'm not sure if Time Lords even age in that sense. Stress, as suggested, seems more likely, but my own guess is that, for the Doctor, there's nothing quite so withering as guilt.

EDIT: Then again, to speculate more wildly, let's remember that this isn't just any old regeneration - this one was engineered, for a specific purpose. Maybe the Sisterhood gave it built-in obsolescence, so that the War Doctor would not outlive the war.


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## Bedrockgames (Nov 14, 2013)

Umbran said:


> Thank you.
> 
> One upshot of this is that, for the next couple of months, she's not supposed to be doing much.  Which means a lot of time with the TV.  Which means finding new shows to watch.  Which means she's actually asked for me to show her some Doctor Who (hooray Nextflix and On Demand!).  She's a sci-fi and fantasy fan, but she didn't grow up on the old Who like I did, so the new show held no particular draw for her.  I may show her the start of Eccleston's run tonight or tomorrow night, even.
> 
> ...




Good luck. Hope it is nothing too serious.


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## Bedrockgames (Nov 14, 2013)

Great mini-episode. Usually these shorts they put online are not too interesting to me , but seeing 8th doctor was a huge thrill.


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## MerricB (Nov 15, 2013)

Morrus said:


> So how long was Hurt the Doctor?  Because Matt Smith didn't age a day in 300 years;  Time Lords clearly age incredibly slowly.  But John Hurt goes from youngish to elderly.  He must have been around for a long, long time.




Two days. On the second day, the Daleks used the Time Destructor on him.

(Sorry, just been watching recons and the surviving episodes of the Daleks' Master Plan. )

I was so, so happy to see Paul McGann again. I've been listening to his Big Finish audios, and it brings something more to see him physically acting it.

He must have been so happy to be doing it without the wig. 

Cheers!


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## delericho (Nov 15, 2013)

Bagpuss said:


> Why don't locks deadlock by default?




There are a couple of possible reasons, but it's probably about convenience.

In my office, most of the doors are normally held by magnetic locks. Swipe the access card, and the door unlocks. However, at night we lock up the main doors with a standard lock (with key) to give a higher level of security. The reason we don't do this all the time is that it's obviously much more time consuming to unlock the door manually, rather than using the key.

Another possibility is that deadlocking may be easy to invoke, but require a higher level of access to unlock - only the security chief (or equivalent) can undo the deadlock. So, you'd use the normal lock most of the time, so everyone can move about, but in extreme cases you'd invoke the deadlock. You don't want to do it all the time, because it's a pain to have to keep calling on the SC to let you out again... but it's useful sometimes.


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## Herschel (Nov 15, 2013)

MerricB said:


> I was so, so happy to see Paul McGann again. I've been listening to his Big Finish audios, and it brings something more to see him physically acting it.




Yeah, I have the first episode, the three Lucy Miller series and the Mary Shelly series on CD but it's incredibly great to have the "live action" version again. I still get that stupid, inexplicable, giddy, child-like excitement watching the minisode. Moffat, you lying bastard, never change! 



> He must have been so happy to be doing it without the wig.




Plus, with two "bad" puns did they really need to find a way to wedge in one about the wig in so short a time?


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## Nellisir (Nov 16, 2013)

Never having seen McGann before, I really liked him in this.  More than I like Smith, I think.


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 17, 2013)

I'm listening to "A Light At The End" right now. Doctors 4-8 together in a story celebrating the 50th anniversary. Much better than "Zagreus" was for the 40th.

In "Time and the Rani", the 7th Doctor gave his age as 953. How is he 9th Doctor only 900 years old? Only reason I've heard is that the Time War somehow made him younger. That doesn't hold for me, for some reason.


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## Umbran (Nov 18, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> In "Time and the Rani", the 7th Doctor gave his age as 953. How is he 9th Doctor only 900 years old?




Do you always give your age down to the month?  No?  Then why should a person nearly a millennium old always give it down to the year?

Given the loops he's been in and out of, over time, it seems to me that the 5% difference is probably within the margin of error for how long he's been around.


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## jonesy (Nov 18, 2013)

Were the previous doctors, the actors I mean, announced before their appearance on screen in the older series? Let's say before Paul McGann. Or was their first appearance on the show a surprise to viewers? Was there a whole 'who will be the next doctor' hullabaloo back then?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 18, 2013)

This is a doctor I might not mind seeing a few (mini) episodes from.


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## Morrus (Nov 18, 2013)

jonesy said:


> Were the previous doctors, the actors I mean, announced before their appearance on screen in the older series? Let's say before Paul McGann. Or was their first appearance on the show a surprise to viewers? Was there a whole 'who will be the next doctor' hullabaloo back then?




Heh.  I really can't remember.  I don't recall any of this for the Doctors I was alive for, but that doesn't mean it didn't happen.  It was a different time, though, not just in terms of no internet.


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## MarkB (Nov 18, 2013)

Yes, they were reported in advance, to much speculation and media attention. I seem to recall Peter Davison putting in an appearance on Blue Peter, and seeing clips of Colin Baker's appearances in Tom Baker-era Doctor Who and Blake's Seven episodes in advance of his first episode.

Sylvester McCoy's casting was particularly controversial, as he'd previously been mostly a comedic actor in childrens' TV shows.


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 22, 2013)

But if 7th was 953, and 9th was 900 and something, 8th was only around for a couple dozen years...

Paul McGann was another bit of the bizarre beast that was the Fox TV movie. BBC wanted Sylvester McCoy. US wanted Tom Baker. Compromise: a new doctor who looked sorta like Tom Baker. The TV movie was originally intended to be a reboot of the whole show, but this compromise made it a continuation. There were so many odd choices like this that the TV movie ended up an atrocious mess of compromising between three different committees, each with its own agenda. The original artistic plans and the overall integrity of the vision were sacrificed just to have a final product of any kind.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 22, 2013)

I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that the Doctor has absolutely no idea how old he is. He just guesses.


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## Janx (Nov 22, 2013)

Remus Lupin said:


> I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that the Doctor has absolutely no idea how old he is. He just guesses.




That seems plausible.

Given, that for us non-time travelling people, it is a simple matter of measuring contiguous elapsed time from our birth to the present.

For the Doctor, unless he keeps a timer, there is no measure of his exposure to the passage of time.  He can't look at when he started to what the date is in his present, as that constantly changes.


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## Morrus (Nov 22, 2013)

Remus Lupin said:


> I think it's entirely reasonable to assume that the Doctor has absolutely no idea how old he is. He just guesses.




As Moffat once said - "What? You humans count the boring years too?"

As he also said: "Whose years?"


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 22, 2013)

But he feels the ebb and flow of the universe, the planet rotating on its axis, the planet orbiting the local star, the star rotating within the galaxy, the galaxy moving within the universe...


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 22, 2013)

Exactly! That's much better than knowing exactly how old you are!


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## trappedslider (Nov 22, 2013)

Rule One : The Doctor Lies


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 22, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> But he feels the ebb and flow of the universe, the planet rotating on its axis, the planet orbiting the local star, the star rotating within the galaxy, the galaxy moving within the universe...




Which might mean he can determine his position in space and time - but not the route he travelled through time. 

(And frankly, we know he can't always determine his position in space and time either.)


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