# Flash Gordon



## sniffles (Aug 11, 2007)

I didn't hold out much hope that this would be great, but I did hope it would be like Eureka and surprise me. No such luck, sadly. It was 90 minutes of sheer boredom. I could forgive the changes to the story, but the acting was mediocre at best and the story was full of gaping plot holes. 

I realize that sometimes the pilot episode of a new series is weak and that it improves over time, but I won't be making any effort to watch the rest of the series. There just wasn't anything going on to bring me back for another try.

To Sci Fi I say, dump this disappointment and bring back The Dresden Files.


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## horacethegrey (Aug 11, 2007)

Judging from the previews I've seen on the net alone, I could tell this show didn't have the *flash *needed (pun intended  ) to be a hit show. 

Memo to the producers, it ain't f***ing _Flash Gordon_ without the bloody spaceships or that rocking Queen theme.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 11, 2007)

sniffles said:
			
		

> To Sci Fi I say, dump this disappointment and bring back The Dresden Files.




Agreed.

Though maybe there's the chance this will get better. Still, it just didn't even have a slight feel of Flash Gordon for me. I mean, even though BSG got a similar change, there were more than just nods to the old series in the form of names and such to tell you it was BSG, even if it was different.

This just...bah. Not that Flash Gordon was ever realy amazing, but one could hope.


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## Nonlethal Force (Aug 11, 2007)

I didn't think it was all that bad.  But then again, Eureka just bored me so much that after 2 episodes I haven't come back.  Dresden files, OTOH, absolutely rocks and should be brought back.

Having said that, I might tune in for the next few weeks and give it the same benefit of the doubt that I gave Eureka.  But, I'll likely not stick with it.  It is going to be a Friday show ... so I'll need something to replace Man vs. Wild since Discovery has decided to put on Survivorman and Lobstermen (What the heck?).

But, I digress (and badly so).  I didn't think Flash Gordon was all that bad.  But, it didn't really "catch me" either.

EDIT: I should say, I haven't really liked Sci Fi since Doctor Who.  When BBC decided to pull the first Doctor in place of the second ... I dropped watching the show and haven't been impressed with Sci Fi since - Dresden Files being the exception.


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 11, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> EDIT: I should say, I haven't really liked Sci Fi since Doctor Who.  When BBC decided to pull the first Doctor in place of the second ...




Assuming you're talking about Doctors 9 and 10--Eccleston and Tennant--I should point out that it wasn't the BBC's decision. Eccleston signed on from day one with the intention that he'd only do one season.


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## stonegod (Aug 11, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> I'll need something to replace Man vs. Wild since Discovery has decided to put on Survivorman and Lobstermen (What the heck?).



Oh, I can explain that one. Discovery is trying to save face since the show is really Man vs. Hotel.


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## horacethegrey (Aug 11, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> IEDIT: I should say, I haven't really liked Sci Fi since Doctor Who.  When BBC decided to pull the first Doctor in place of the second ... I dropped watching the show and haven't been impressed with Sci Fi since - Dresden Files being the exception.



Mate, you've really missed out. Many of the episodes with David Tennant as the Doctor have been just brilliant. Even if seasons 2 and 3 have not matched the overall brilliance of the season 1, that's no reason why you should drop the show.


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## Christoph the Magus (Aug 11, 2007)

My wife and I watched Flash and agreed that it sucked.  I wasn't holding out much hope for a good show, but I thought that it would be better than what we got.  Oh well, here's hoping that Dresden comes back.


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## Nonlethal Force (Aug 11, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Assuming you're talking about Doctors 9 and 10--Eccleston and Tennant--I should point out that it wasn't the BBC's decision. Eccleston signed on from day one with the intention that he'd only do one season.




Fair enough.  Then I blame Eccleston!    

But, thanks for the info.  When my wife heard that Eccleston wasn't back for season two, she said that it really didn't surprise her.  It seems that British television does more "character/actor swapping" than Americans are used to.  I don't know if this is fair or not, just going on my wife's words.



			
				horacethegrey said:
			
		

> Mate, you've really missed out. Many of the episodes with David Tennant as the Doctor have been just brilliant. Even if seasons 2 and 3 have not matched the overall brilliance of the season 1, that's no reason why you should drop the show.




While this may be true, I am the type of person who is very visual oriented.  I simply cannot watch a show with a stand in actor/actress and believe it.  For me (since I never saw any of the original Doctor Who episodes) the Doctor is always Eccleston.  Even if the new show is good, and it may well be, it won't be good to me.  But I am glad that others are enjoying the show!

If they wanted to keep me (and people like me) - they should have found a reason to actually "replace the doctor with another character."  Granted .. being the last of the Time Lords that would be difficult.



			
				stonegod said:
			
		

> Oh, I can explain that one. Discovery is trying to save face since the show is really Man vs. Hotel.




Heh, that's kind of funny!  Although, hotel or not ... I still enjoyed the show and would probably continue to enjoy it.  To be honest, though, I always assumed there was behind the scenes help.  I mean, nobody can go out into that many bad situations and succeed all the time without help.  Nobody is that good.  Eventually - even if you are good - a string off bad luck is bound to come about.


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 11, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> While this may be true, I am the type of person who is very visual oriented.  I simply cannot watch a show with a stand in actor/actress and believe it.  For me (since I never saw any of the original Doctor Who episodes) the Doctor is always Eccleston.  Even if the new show is good, and it may well be, it won't be good to me.  But I am glad that others are enjoying the show!
> 
> If they wanted to keep me (and people like me) - they should have found a reason to actually "replace the doctor with another character."  Granted .. being the last of the Time Lords that would be difficult.




The thing is, changing appearance/persona is a _staple_ of Doctor Who. It's _part_ of the character, and has been for... What, over forty years? That's why we're on the Tenth Doctor. Not the tenth _actor_--the tenth _Doctor_.

Tennant is a "stand-in." He's not _supposed_ to be the exact same character as Eccleston; he's a new regeneration, and that means new appearance _and_ new persona. In essence, he _is_ a new character.


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## Ed_Laprade (Aug 11, 2007)

Saw it, didn't care for it. It might improve, but it sure ain't Flash Gordon! Might watch some more episodes since its going to be on after Dr. Who. We'll see. So far the best character looks like it might be the bounty hunter (or whatever she is) that showed up near the end. 

Question: Did they ever mention Zarkov by name? If they did, I didn't catch it.


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## Truth Seeker (Aug 12, 2007)

Previews didn't impress me. And saw some of it, forgot that it ran longer into the Doctor Who time.

Bring Dresden Files back.


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## Pseudonym (Aug 12, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Heh, that's kind of funny!  Although, hotel or not ... I still enjoyed the show and would probably continue to enjoy it.  To be honest, though, I always assumed there was behind the scenes help.  I mean, nobody can go out into that many bad situations and succeed all the time without help.  Nobody is that good.  Eventually - even if you are good - a string off bad luck is bound to come about.




What did it for me was the episode where he came across a "wild" horse that had obviously had it's feet trimmed.  Perhaps something that the general viewing public would have missed, but to a horseman it was blatantly obvious.

As to Flash Gordon; I got bored real fast, but stuck it out in the hopes it would give me something to connect to.  Nope.  Granted the BSG pilot I thought royally sucked but I became hooked on the series, so I'll give it at least one more episode.


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## Kaledor (Aug 12, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> Question: Did they ever mention Zarkov by name? If they did, I didn't catch it.




IIRC, When Flash and ladies in tow first come back to Earth he see the RV and says something to the effect of, 'There's Zarkov's van'.



I don't like that they will be popping back and forth between Mongo and Earth.
I liked my Flash stranded and fighting... not stopping home to check in with mom.

I'll keep watching till they cancel it just when it starts getting better.


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## horacethegrey (Aug 12, 2007)

Kaledor said:
			
		

> I don't like that they will be popping back and forth between Mongo and Earth.
> I liked my Flash stranded and fighting... not stopping home to check in with mom.



 :\ I'm betting the producers added this bit so as to ground Flash in *reality*. This is all wrong of course, as _Flash Gordon_ isn't some hard scifi TV series in the vein of _Taken _or _BSG_. It's f***in space fantasy! The best that Scifi could have done was to fashion the show more in the vein of _Farscape_...

Oh wait, they did that didn't they? And canceled it soon after.


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## lrsach01 (Aug 12, 2007)

horacethegrey said:
			
		

> :\ I'm betting the producers added this bit so as to ground Flash in *reality*. This is all wrong of course, as _Flash Gordon_ isn't some hard scifi TV series in the vein of _Taken _or _BSG_. It's f***in space fantasy! The best that Scifi could have done was to fashion the show more in the vein of _Farscape_...:




I was all set for a long rambling diatribe, but Horace said it better than I could. Flash Gordon is Space Fantasy! Not some whining twenty something pining for a lost girlfriend. Who, in THIS Flash's place, wouldn't JUMP at the chance to see a WHOLE NEW WORLD.

And one more thing, this version of Ming is about as frightening as cold spaghetti....no style...no menace...no fun.


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## Nonlethal Force (Aug 12, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> The thing is, changing appearance/persona is a _staple_ of Doctor Who. It's _part_ of the character, and has been for... What, over forty years? That's why we're on the Tenth Doctor. Not the tenth _actor_--the tenth _Doctor_.
> 
> Tennant is a "stand-in." He's not _supposed_ to be the exact same character as Eccleston; he's a new regeneration, and that means new appearance _and_ new persona. In essence, he _is_ a new character.




Ah, well.  Then it probably is a good thing that I stopped watching it after the first season of Eccleston.  Because I totally wouldn't have enjoyed switching it ten times.  Note that I'm not criticizing the show by saying what they are doing is wrong.  If that's a staple of the show, then that's cool.  But it is wrong for me.


Ahhhh.  Bring back Dresden files.  That was one of the few shows that brought my wigfe and I together in front of the TV and took me away from the internet or my sports programming!


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## Nonlethal Force (Aug 12, 2007)

Sorry for the double post, but I logged off and went to the place where I do much of my better thinking ... and had a thought.  So I thought I would come back and ask.

- - -

Of the people responding, how many are familiar with the old series?  Because I have neither seen any of the old episodes nor did I ever read any books/comics on Flash Gordon.

- - -

And, I think that is important.  It isn't fair to a new series with a 1.5 hour pilot to compare it with the scope of the old series.  It just isn't fair.  You cannot develop the depth of characters and vile hatred for the bad guys in that short of a time span.  [Well, you can in a movie, where the run of the show is 2-3 hours.  But in a series, you have to develop over time or else the show burns out too quickly]

Perhaps the next 2 or 3 episodes are designed to solve some of the above issues.  Such as the bouncing back and forth.  Maybe the next few episodes are going to solve the character depth problem.  Perhaps the next few episodes are going to reveal just how vile the bad guys are.  Perhaps the next few episodes are going to turn it more into a Farscape Space Fantasy.

EDITORIAL: Although, I doubt it.  As I said, I am not familiar with the original series, and I was hard pressed to care about the action - what little there was.  And I thought the acting was not impressive.  So I think my above speculation is likely incorrect ... but I am just hypothesizing.  What if the next few episodes are designed to pull you in and they slowly introduce the elements of the old series that weren't in the short pilot?


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## Elodan (Aug 12, 2007)

_Flash Gordon_ = boring.  I kept looking at the clock and saying, "cool they're going to Mongol, now the action and spaceships happen"; "guess they're going back to Earth to pick up Zharkov, then back to Mongol for the action and spaceships"; "uh, not going to Mongol for action and spaceships?"  
The pilot should pull you in and have you want to watch the next episodes.  This one didn't.  

_David Tennant as Doctor Who_ = One of my favorite doctors (either 1 or 1a).  School Reunion was possibly my favorite episode ever.

_Dresden Files_ = They canceled it?  Not as great as the books but it was growing on me.  Shame.


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## horacethegrey (Aug 12, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Of the people responding, how many are familiar with the old series?  Because I have neither seen any of the old episodes nor did I ever read any books/comics on Flash Gordon.



The onscreen incarnations of _Flash Gordon_ that people are most familiar with are the old 30's movie serials starring Buster Crabbe, the late 70's Filmation cartoon, and of course, the cult classic 80's flick starring Sam Jones and featuring that killer Queen soundtrack.  

Personally, I've never seen the serials, but the cartoon and the movie I have fond memories of.



			
				Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Perhaps the next 2 or 3 episodes are designed to solve some of the above issues. Such as the bouncing back and forth. Maybe the next few episodes are going to solve the character depth problem. Perhaps the next few episodes are going to reveal just how vile the bad guys are. Perhaps the next few episodes are going to turn it more into a Farscape Space Fantasy.



_Farscape _did it all in the pilot. It didn't need additional episodes to establish what a fantastic headtrip it was to become. This new _Flash _series has no excuse I feel for the dullness of it's beginning.


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## Jamdin (Aug 12, 2007)

My biggest problem with the show was Ming. When he first appeared, I wondered who he was and I was surprised to find out that he was the emperor. He just did not have a menacing presence.


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## Wycen (Aug 12, 2007)

Jamdin said:
			
		

> My biggest problem with the show was Ming. When he first appeared, I wondered who he was and I was surprised to find out that he was the emperor. He just did not have a menacing presence.




Bingo.  I thought the look and feel of Ming was horribly off target.


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## Ed_Laprade (Aug 12, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Of the people responding, how many are familiar with the old series?  Because I have neither seen any of the old episodes nor did I ever read any books/comics on Flash Gordon.



I used to read the strip in the Sunday comics when I was a kid. I also saw some of the 50s TV show episodes (with Steve Holland). And I've seen all the serials, plus the Sam Jones film. So yeah, I'm about as famailiar with Flash as anyone my age can be. And, as I said, this ain't it! The thing they missed with Ming is that he was _wicked_, not just evil. And he had style! The new Ming just needs someone to shot him in the head.


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## trancejeremy (Aug 12, 2007)

I'm guessing a lot of it had to do with having a very small budget.  They have to shoot it in Canada, I guess, and it's impossible to make Canada look like anything but Canada, much less someplace as exotic as Mongo (cast, too, they look and sound Canadian - not that it's a bad thing as they tend to be attractive, but you just don't think of Flash Gordon as being Canadian, much less the people of Mongo).  And the low budget probably rules out spaceships and the like.  I guess cheap model making has largely been wiped out by cheap CGI, and just sticking a sparkler to a model rocket on a string probably wouldn't work these days anyway.  And action scenes cost money as well, it's much cheaper to have a character mope around than do something exciting.

While people like the 1980 movie now (though I loved it then as well, I think I saw it 5 times as a kid), at the time it was largely a flop. It cost something like $35 million to make (not cheap for 1980) and I think only pulled in about 75% of that in the theaters. So it's doubtful that Sci-Fi would have given the show a big budget, given the riskiness (not to mention their own stinginess with regards to their own shows that actually are hits)


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 13, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Ah, well.  Then it probably is a good thing that I stopped watching it after the first season of Eccleston.  Because I totally wouldn't have enjoyed switching it ten times.  Note that I'm not criticizing the show by saying what they are doing is wrong.  If that's a staple of the show, then that's cool.  But it is wrong for me.




Actually, you misunderstood. They haven't changed 10 times since Eccleston. They've changed once. Eccleston was already the ninth doctor. (The new show is still considered part of the original series' continuum.)

That said, if it's not for you, it's not for you... But I think you'd enjoy it. It's not like they change _that_ often.


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## jaerdaph (Aug 13, 2007)

Back to Flash Gordon: 

That sucked donkey dung. First of all, 1930s sweet as pie all American girl/boy next door just doesn't work anymore. And Ming the Merciless looked more like the lead singer from Wang Chung. 

I'd rather watch a Voyager Captain Proton holodeck episode.


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## Hypersmurf (Aug 13, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Actually, you misunderstood. They haven't changed 10 times since Eccleston. They've changed once. Eccleston was already the ninth doctor.




I guess what he's saying is that Christopher Eccleston (2005) is the one true Doctor; all others (even if they preceded him by several decades) are but poor imitations of the real thing 

-Hyp.


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## Nonlethal Force (Aug 13, 2007)

Yeah, Hyp.  That's what I meant to say.  Looking back at my post, though, I admit that the words I actually typed are really misleading.  [FWIW, I did understand that Eccleston was 9, but my words don't really indicate that.]  That's what I get for typing and not proofreading.  

On a side note, thanks for the vote of confidence anyway, Mouseferatu.  I did really like the year with Eccleston.  Maybe when my wife decides to sign us up for Netflix again I'll have her order the series and give them a fair shake.  I'm hesitant, but I'll try anything once!  Also, I'm glad to have learned that Eccleston is in the same story line as the rest.  Here I honestly thought that this was a remake of the original series (with different stories, of course, to keep the viewers interested).



Back to Flash.  Does anyone know just what the contract for Flash Gordon is?  How many episodes for the first year before they are picked up (or more likely dropped)?  And, did anyone bother to see how Flash did according to the ratings?  I suppose the ratings might be misleading, because it sounds like a lot of people tuned in and were disappointed.  What might be more telling is the rating from last week to this week.


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## horacethegrey (Aug 13, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> On a side note, thanks for the vote of confidence anyway, Mouseferatu.  I did really like the year with Eccleston.  Maybe when my wife decides to sign us up for Netflix again I'll have her order the series and give them a fair shake.  I'm hesitant, but I'll try anything once!  Also, I'm glad to have learned that Eccleston is in the same story line as the rest.  Here I honestly thought that this was a remake of the original series (with different stories, of course, to keep the viewers interested).



I suggest you peruse this thread for recommendations on what Doctor episodes to check out. New and old series alike.  



			
				trancejeremy said:
			
		

> So it's doubtful that Sci-Fi would have given the show a big budget, given the riskiness (not to mention their own stinginess with regards to their own shows that actually are hits)



 Why the hell make a show that's sure to be a hit when you're not going to actively support it?! What the hell are the execs of Scifi smoking on that they take this backwards approach to broadcast TV?!

 Sorry, just venting my _Farscape _frustrations there.


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## Mistwell (Aug 13, 2007)

Well, first episode was not so good.

The woman playing Dale Arden either is not a good actor, or is getting some bad direction, or both.  Three times she had a line that was supposed to be presented as comedy or snarky or sarcastic, and she blew the line and said it deadpan as part of a run-on sentence.

Nor did I sense even a moment of actual chemistry between her and Flash, despite that being a big part of the premise of this show.  The both seemed to be acting in a vacuum, worrying more about getting their own next line out than about acting with and off of each other.

I will continue watching for a while.  I want the show to succeed.  But so far, it's not very good.

I'd rather at this point that they brought back The Lost Room as a regular show.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Aug 13, 2007)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> That sucked donkey dung. First of all, 1930s sweet as pie all American girl/boy next door just doesn't work anymore.



I disagree -- many currently successful shows work off of the All American/Canadian Charm thing.

The real problem here is that, for something inspired by an action-packed serial, it was slow and _dull_.

We should have had punches flying, daring escapes, car chases with something other than a Winnebago and truly half-dressed alien princesses in the first 30 minutes. Instead we got a tepid soap opera with more exposition than we'd need for a whole serial and the least active Flash Gordon ever.


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## Pyrex (Aug 13, 2007)

Wycen said:
			
		

> Bingo.  I thought the look and feel of Ming was horribly off target.




+1

My first thought when they introduced him was something like "oh look, they've introduced recurring-character district-governor P.I.T.A..  What?  That's Ming?  *sigh*"

He's about as intimidating as a sack of soggy oatmeal.   :\


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## Fast Learner (Aug 13, 2007)

I'll watch a second episode, as I really prefer to give any series at least one past the pilot (since things can change a _lot_, as often a lot of time has passed and the show's been tuned up).


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## trancejeremy (Aug 13, 2007)

horacethegrey said:
			
		

> Why the hell make a show that's sure to be a hit when you're not going to actively support it?! What the hell are the execs of Scifi smoking on that they take this backwards approach to broadcast TV?!
> 
> Sorry, just venting my _Farscape _frustrations there.




I really have to think it has to do with internal politics.  I think TV programming is kinda like how different factions of a court would vie for a King/Queen's favor.  Certain shows might be pet projects of a given exec, but another exec hates that exec, so he tries to sabotage that show by getting it cancelled or lowering the budget or casting horrible actors.  

And not all parts of the company work together.  Production/Engineering parts of companies are always at odds with the accounting parts.


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## trancejeremy (Aug 13, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> The woman playing Dale Arden either is not a good actor, or is getting some bad direction, or both.  Three times she had a line that was supposed to be presented as comedy or snarky or sarcastic, and she blew the line and said it deadpan as part of a run-on sentence.




She was a guest star on an episode of Supernatural (the one with the Wendigo). I thought she did a good job on it. 

I think she might be overworked. She's apparently also on some other TV show (that vampire show on Lifetime). Granted, I think both are 13 episode seasons, so probably no overlap, but she might have been a bit rusher and unable to get her bearings.


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## horacethegrey (Aug 13, 2007)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> I really have to think it has to do with internal politics.  I think TV programming is kinda like how different factions of a court would vie for a King/Queen's favor.  Certain shows might be pet projects of a given exec, but another exec hates that exec, so he tries to sabotage that show by getting it cancelled or lowering the budget or casting horrible actors.
> 
> And not all parts of the company work together.  Production/Engineering parts of companies are always at odds with the accounting parts.



If that's the case then, I'm surprised SciFi has lasted this long. 

I honestly wouldn't mind it if the channel went under, as I've never forgiven them for canceling _Farscape_. Move _Doctor Who_ to another cable channel (BBC America!  ) and let someone else do _Flash Gordon_ justice.


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 13, 2007)

I did not have much faith in it and got to say, I got what I thought I would be getting.  I swear I was watching Sliders at one point!  The actting and plot changes just did not mess, and Ming, he just is not the evil mastermind overload, I know.


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## buzzard (Aug 13, 2007)

Some Sooilers (though as rotten as this was, who would care?).
It was dreck. The characters were just plain lame. I mean Flash Gorden was dumb as a box of rocks. While I don't expect him to be a rocket scientist, the "Juts smile at them and we'll be OK" stuff was just too much. Also spilling the beans in front of Ming. 

The pilot was enough pain for me. Bring back Dresden Files. 

buzzard


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## Brown Jenkin (Aug 13, 2007)

I didn't think it was as bad as some people are saying. I don't think it is great but I will give it 4-5 more shows to get its stride.

To join in on the critizism though.

Yes Ming is weak
The bounty hunter had more screen presence and charisma than anyone else
Flash's mom seemed too young given his age (26) and the visual age of his dad when Flash was 13


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## Sir Brennen (Aug 13, 2007)

Yep. Extremely disappointing, for all the reasons mentioned above. In addition, too many scenes seemed lifted right out of the 80's movie (in particular, Dale being prepped for her "meeting" with Ming), but without the over-the-top camp. Most of the acting was _terrible_, like some grade D sci-fi movie filmed in someone's back yard with some of his friends instead of paid actors. Ming, as mentioned, was totally without menace or presence. Aurora was about intriguing and seductive as moldy cheese. Dale was only paying lip-service to "spunky". Flash, I thought, actually wasn't too bad, given the material.

And the "we have to keep this a secret because... it would be bad if we didn't" was ham-fisted. Better to have Flash trapped on Mongo initially where he's unable to contact Earth to warn them.

But at least, I have a feeling that Flash is going to go back to Mongo, getting involved in the politics there as he searches for his father. Hopefully things will pick up when he does.

For those interested, Universal HD seems to be airing the episodes on Sunday nights in High-Def.


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## Insight (Aug 13, 2007)

Sci-Fi doesn't develop these shows.  They have ZERO say in what happens or how much is spent on development.  All they do is buy the rights to show it.  Sci-Fi pays a rights fee to the development company and show the product.  Sci-Fi doesn't care (or doesn't seem to care in any event) whether or not the show is any good.  They have a certain fanbase that will watch whatever they put on the air (have you seen some of the crap shows that appear on that network??? YIKES!)

Don't expect high-budget shows on Sci-Fi.  If they do manage to find something that's any good, it's almost an accident.

I'm not trying to knock Sci-Fi at all.  It's how they do business.  There's nothing wrong with it, but it is what it is.  You wouldn't go to Bravo to find sports programming, so don't go to Sci-Fi if you're looking for in-depth, high-budget programming.

Note: I am referring only to the first-run shows that Sci-Fi broadcasts.  Obviously, syndicated stuff like X-Files re-runs are good programming (and honestly, far better than Flash Gordon can ever hope to be).


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## Mistwell (Aug 13, 2007)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> She was a guest star on an episode of Supernatural (the one with the Wendigo). I thought she did a good job on it.
> 
> I think she might be overworked. She's apparently also on some other TV show (that vampire show on Lifetime). Granted, I think both are 13 episode seasons, so probably no overlap, but she might have been a bit rusher and unable to get her bearings.




Let me put it another way.  I met her at the Sci-Fi/EW party at San Diego Comic Con, and she seemed fairly vapid.


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## Mistwell (Aug 13, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Sci-Fi doesn't develop these shows.  They have ZERO say in what happens or how much is spent on development.  All they do is buy the rights to show it.  Sci-Fi pays a rights fee to the development company and show the product.  Sci-Fi doesn't care (or doesn't seem to care in any event) whether or not the show is any good.  They have a certain fanbase that will watch whatever they put on the air (have you seen some of the crap shows that appear on that network??? YIKES!)




You are wrong. This is a Sci-Fi show, developed by them.  I met most of the people surrounding this show. It's made directly by Sci-Fi, just like Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, and BSG.  They have a Sci-Fi village in Vancouver, BC where these are all produced.


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## Insight (Aug 14, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> You are wrong. This is a Sci-Fi show, developed by them.  I met most of the people surrounding this show. It's made directly by Sci-Fi, just like Stargate SG-1, Atlantis, and BSG.  They have a Sci-Fi village in Vancouver, BC where these are all produced.




The people you met weren't employees of the Sci-Fi Network.  Flash Gordon is made by Reunion Pictures, a Canadian production company.  I can verify this not only from the prodco's website, but also at IMDB and through my subscription to Hollywood Reporter, where I saw the ad for this production a while back.

Stargate SG-1 was developed by Sony Pictures and distributed by Sci-Fi Network.

As was Stargate Atlantis, not surprisingly.

Battlestar Galactica is a co-production of BSkyB and USA Pictures, distributed by Sci-Fi Network.

The Sci-Fi Network doesn't make many shows.  They are mainly a distributor, as I stated previously.


----------



## Fast Learner (Aug 14, 2007)

The bounty hunter/cop looked so similar to the princess that I thought they were clones or something. Once they were together I could _somewhat_ see the difference, but even then it was too close. Bad casting.


----------



## jaerdaph (Aug 14, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> I disagree -- many currently successful shows work off of the All American/Canadian Charm thing.




I really could use an example because I'm at a loss to think of one. 



			
				Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> The real problem here is that, for something inspired by an action-packed serial, it was slow and _dull_.
> 
> We should have had punches flying, daring escapes, car chases with something other than a Winnebago and truly half-dressed alien princesses in the first 30 minutes. Instead we got a tepid soap opera with more exposition than we'd need for a whole serial and the least active Flash Gordon ever.




QFT.


----------



## jaerdaph (Aug 14, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> The bounty hunter/cop looked so similar to the princess that I thought they were clones or something. Once they were together I could _somewhat_ see the difference, but even then it was too close. Bad casting.




When I saw her, all I could think of was Xena rip off.


----------



## Mistwell (Aug 14, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> The people you met weren't employees of the Sci-Fi Network.




Uh, yes they were. No, really.



> Flash Gordon is made by Reunion Pictures, a Canadian production company.  I can verify this not only from the prodco's website, but also at IMDB and through my subscription to Hollywood Reporter, where I saw the ad for this production a while back.
> 
> Stargate SG-1 was developed by Sony Pictures and distributed by Sci-Fi Network.
> 
> ...




I think you are both right and wrong.

Various financing companies are used to make the shows (which is what most of those companies you just mentioned are - finance).  Sci-Fi controls most of those shows however, in most respects.  They own most of the physical infrastructure that those shows, casts, and crew use.  They have essential control over the projects.  They may use other finance companies to work that end, and they sometimes may play games with paying a production company in Canada to produce something using their assets, but for most respects those are all Sci-Fi shows and not just shows made by someone else with hopes of finding a distributor like Sci-Fi.  Trust me, they don't just make those shows on their own.  Sci-Fi holds almost all the reigns.  The actors and crew consider themselves the Sci-Fi family, and live in the Sci-Fi village in Vancouver.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Aug 14, 2007)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> I really could use an example because I'm at a loss to think of one.




Well, to borrow an example from TV for youth, Hannah Montana springs to mind.  Hannah/Miley is all about Downhome American Charm.

It'd be easier if we could go back to the way television programming used to be.  There were bunches of shows on in the 80s that were all about good old fashioned American charm.  But, feeling good about your family and who you are as a person is apparently no longer entertaining ... so most shows don't emphasize this as much!

[snyde, sarcasm, and gross generalization]

After all, it is all around better quality TV to watch people insult each other or act violently towards each other ...

[/snyde, /sarcasm, /gross generalization]


----------



## Insight (Aug 14, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Uh, yes they were. No, really.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I'm not going to argue with you, since I don't think there's any point.  I've proven that Sci-Fi doesn't make these shows, and you still seem to think they do.  Oh well.


----------



## trancejeremy (Aug 14, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Sci-Fi doesn't develop these shows.  They have ZERO say in what happens or how much is spent on development.  All they do is buy the rights to show it.  Sci-Fi pays a rights fee to the development company and show the product.  Sci-Fi doesn't care (or doesn't seem to care in any event) whether or not the show is any good.  They have a certain fanbase that will watch whatever they put on the air (have you seen some of the crap shows that appear on that network??? YIKES!)




I can't say for sure about how much control they have, but they do have a say over how much money is spent, since they are the ones financing the show. 

Also, Mistwell is right in that all the shows are shot in basically the same location.  They might have different production companies, but all are located on the same street in Vancouver apparently, and share the same sets at times.


----------



## Mistwell (Aug 14, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> I'm not going to argue with you, since I don't think there's any point.  I've proven that Sci-Fi doesn't make these shows, and you still seem to think they do.  Oh well.




Because my wife is on a Sci-Fi show and I know the people I am referring to and talked to them about the subject?


----------



## cignus_pfaccari (Aug 15, 2007)

Heh, I don't care who makes the show, I just like knowing that my decision to watch Dogfights over on the History Channel was better than I knew.

Brad


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Aug 15, 2007)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> I really could use an example because I'm at a loss to think of one.



Smallville. Pretty much every show starring teens or fake teens.

Flash Gordon thinks it's going to do the same thing. Someone should have told them they needed more power ballads to get onto the CW. (Exception: Supernatural.)


----------



## Silverblade The Ench (Aug 15, 2007)

Currently, I don't like the way the producer of Dr WHo is steering the Doctor into being some quasi-divine-Messianic character 
Series #1 was better, more hardcore, as it were. Tennant is good, but again, I dislike the producer's use of younger actors (I can guess why, going on Torchwood and his background, sigh, not a slight, it's the way he KEEPS pounding on on a theme, to the point of zealotry). I preffer the Doctor as an older, erudite, gentle but determined fella.
-Oh well 

Can't stand most US TV in the past 15 years or so, it's so, so gutless and "perfect/prettyboy" or predictable. Give me ROME any day: rumpo, violence, machiavellian mayhem, and characters who CHANGE and are mostly believable _human beings_, woot! Pullo and Voraenous are about my 2 fave characters, ever, on TV.
-Only Babylon5 bucked that trend from the US, that I can recall off hand. Wonderful story telling, and the Humans were NOT the "_we are so emo-smart-wise good guys_!", yuch!!! Death to Star Trek Next Generation 
-I vote we put PULLO on the bridge of the Enterpise! He'll deal with those Klingons, all right, muhaha!


----------



## Mistwell (Aug 15, 2007)

Silverblade The Ench said:
			
		

> Currently, I don't like the way the producer of Dr WHo is steering the Doctor into being some quasi-divine-Messianic character
> Series #1 was better, more hardcore, as it were. Tennant is good, but again, I dislike the producer's use of younger actors (I can guess why, going on Torchwood and his background, sigh, not a slight, it's the way he KEEPS pounding on on a theme, to the point of zealotry). I preffer the Doctor as an older, erudite, gentle but determined fella.
> -Oh well
> 
> ...




Firefly?


----------



## sniffles (Aug 15, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Of the people responding, how many are familiar with the old series?  Because I have neither seen any of the old episodes nor did I ever read any books/comics on Flash Gordon.
> 
> - - -
> 
> ...




You've got a good point there - they're trying to bring Flash Gordon to a new generation of people who may never have seen the '80s movie, let alone the '30s serials or newspaper strips. 

I tried to keep that in mind while watching the premiere. But you'll notice I never made any comments about the missing rocketships or any of the things they changed. I just found the show dull and uninvolving.


----------



## Silverblade The Ench (Aug 16, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Firefly?



Not seen it so can't comment


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Aug 16, 2007)

sniffles said:
			
		

> I tried to keep that in mind while watching the premiere. But you'll notice I never made any comments about the missing rocketships or any of the things they changed. I just found the show dull and uninvolving.




Agreed!  And you'll notice that I still don't give the show much of a chance for the same reasons.  Putting aside the things I don't know about because I've never seen any of the other stuff ... i still found the plot painstakingly slow in development and boring.  And the characters two dimensional.    So I think in the end the show won't be a hit, regardless of what may come.

Oh, and for those of you that have seen the original - please tell me the "Imex" is not in the other series.  Because the way they handled it in the new series just about made me turn it off right then and there.  I mean, Imex from Timex?  Were they serious?


----------



## Fast Learner (Aug 16, 2007)

What, you haven't seen Zardoz?


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Aug 16, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> What, you haven't seen Zardoz?




What is this Zardoz of which you speak?


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Aug 16, 2007)

Something Sean Connery did after Bond. A weird-future sci-fi flick. Haven't seen it since it first came out, so I don't remember what he's refering to either.


----------



## Fast Learner (Aug 16, 2007)

Zardoz used the Imex thing more than 30 years ago, that's all. For those who haven't seen it (and I do recommend it -- it's trippy, but pretty danged cool, most gamers should really dig it):


Spoiler



The name comes from an ancient book, part of the cover of which is obscured, so you see:

Wi*zard*
of *Oz*

Hence, Zardoz.



See, it's like Imex, just more original.


----------



## sniffles (Aug 16, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Oh, and for those of you that have seen the original - please tell me the "Imex" is not in the other series.  Because the way they handled it in the new series just about made me turn it off right then and there.  I mean, Imex from Timex?  Were they serious?



No, the "Imex" bit didn't come from either the 1980 movie or the original serials/comics. 

Short history of Flash Gordon, s-blocked for those who don't want to know:

[sblock]Flash Gordon first appeared as a comic strip in 1934, created by Alex Raymond. He was originally kidnapped, along with girlfriend Dale Arden, by a crazy scientist named Dr. Hans Zarkov. Zarkov had built a rocket to go find out where meteors were coming from that were bombarding the Earth. The meteors turned out to come from the planet Mongo, which was attacking the Earth at the direction of tyrannical emperor Ming the Merciless. 

The 1980 film was updated for the time period, but still stuck fairly closely to the original source (mainly the 1930s movie serials) in that Flash and Dale took a spacecraft to Mongo with Dr. Zarkov, and met all sorts of weird races like the Hawkmen. [/sblock]

This isn't the first time Flash has been updated for a new generation. Back in the '90s there was a short-lived animated series in which Flash and Dale were hoverboarding teenagers.   :\


----------



## danzig138 (Aug 16, 2007)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> I didn't think it was all that bad.  But then again, Eureka just bored me so much that after 2 episodes I haven't come back.  Dresden files, OTOH, absolutely rocks and should be brought back.



Hrmmm. . . You like Eccleston's Doctor, but you don't like Eureka, and you didn't think FG was all that bad. . . I don't know what to do with your post. 

I feel that Flash Gordon had a goal, and it accomplished it. My question is why did they design a show with the goal of Bring The Dull? That doesn't seem profitible to me. It might get better, and I'll give it another shot or three, since I generally don't drop shows based on the pilot. But it didn't bring anything to the Entertain danzig138 table. 

I would much rather have them renew Dresden though - I liked that show (better than the books). 

Eureka is great. Of the 4 or so shows I'm watching every week right now, it's the one I get most jazzed about (followed by Burn Notice).


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Aug 18, 2007)

I just watched the second episode. Better than the first, but it could have been done in half an hour. I'm really not liking Nerdkov. I'd like to say what an idiot Flash is for wanting to go charging off to Mongo with no equipment of any kind, but the character has pretty much always been that way. Not sure if I'll bother to watch any more.


----------



## trancejeremy (Aug 18, 2007)

Part of the 2nd episode were almost good, I thought.  Flash and Dale and the alien chick seem to work well together.  Zarkov, he's pretty bad. I really can't help but think they tried to get someone who looked like the "Can you hear me now?" guy. 

The scenes on Mongo were painfully bad, though. I'm just not buying that guy as Ming, and the whole ice smuggling thing was silly. (Given how common Hydrogen and Oxygen are, I can't believe that any high tech civilization would ever have a serious water supply problem. Especially when it looks exactly like Canada, not the driest place in the world)


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Aug 18, 2007)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Part of the 2nd episode were almost good, I thought.  Flash and Dale and the alien chick seem to work well together.  Zarkov, he's pretty bad. I really can't help but think they tried to get someone who looked like the "Can you hear me now?" guy.
> 
> The scenes on Mongo were painfully bad, though. I'm just not buying that guy as Ming, and the whole ice smuggling thing was silly. (Given how common Hydrogen and Oxygen are, I can't believe that any high tech civilization would ever have a serious water supply problem. Especially when it looks exactly like Canada, not the driest place in the world)



Agree with the first part. Ming has the charisma of a limp noodle, which I think is his major failing. You just can't _care_ about his Evilness. All the water on Mongo, except for that controled by Ming, is (supposed) to be contaminated with something or other. The fact that this is all a Big Lie is why he's killing everyone else who tries to cut in on his profits from selling clean water to everyone. Which is, of course, nonsense. Haven't these people ever heard of rainbarrels?

And Aura has about as much charisma as her old man. Where's Pricilla Lawson (Aura in the Buster Crabbe serials) when you need her?


----------



## trancejeremy (Aug 18, 2007)

Well, besides rainbarrels, in a half-way high tech society, you can purify water relatively easily by simply distilling it or filtering it.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 20, 2007)

Just is not holding its water for me   , piss poor show, glad there is Monk at the same time.


----------



## Pyrex (Aug 21, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> All the water on Mongo, except for that controled by Ming, is (supposed) to be contaminated with something or other. The fact that this is all a Big Lie is why he's killing everyone else who tries to cut in on his profits from selling clean water to everyone. Which is, of course, nonsense.




My assumption was slightly different, rather than 'BadWater' being a hoax, the Ming is responsible for poisoning it to create and maintain his power-base.  Given the current pace of the storyline I predict this to be revealed to the audience somewhere between episode 4-6.

And for all that the city appears to have a high technological base, the rest of what we've seen of mongo they seem to live more like agrarian peasants than what we'd expect in an industrialized nation; but you'd think it'd still be easier to build a still than to smuggle water cross-country by hauling _blocks of ice in burlap sacks_.    

Bleh.  2nd episode not really any better than the first.

And following Ed's lead I second the dislike for Nerdkov (good call on the name Ed!)

I give it two more episodes to shape-up before I bail...


----------



## Fast Learner (Aug 22, 2007)

The whole thing -- pacing, dramatic pauses, the story -- came across the way (pardon me for this) _Stargate_ or _SG Atlantis_ do for me: slow, hackneyed plot, roughly local-theater-level acting. I'd almost swear I was watching an episode of _Stargate: Sliders_.

(BTW, I've watched a lot of Stargate and Sliders because some genre entertainment is usually better than none... I just don't see them as high-quality shows.)


----------



## horacethegrey (Aug 22, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> (BTW, I've watched a lot of Stargate and Sliders because some genre entertainment is usually better than none... I just don't see them as high-quality shows.)



You know, I could never do that. Even if there were a bunch of genre shows on air, I couldn't be bothered watching all of them cause some are bound not to be my cup of tea and therefore a waste of my time. Hell, at the time _Farscape _was on, I didn't even bother with _Buffy _or _Angel_, as I could never get into them. Even now, _Lost_, _Battlestar Galactica_, and _Heroes _aren't my fancy, as I'm very much into _Doctor Who_ for the most part.


----------



## Villano (Aug 25, 2007)

Anyone still watching?  I tried, but could only make it through it in bits and pieces.  I'm not even going to bother next week.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Aug 25, 2007)

Not me. I didn't even bother watching this weeks.   :\


----------



## warlord (Aug 25, 2007)

I know this has already been said but I can't believe they canceled Dresden Files for this crap.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 25, 2007)

warlord said:
			
		

> I know this has already been said but I can't believe they canceled Dresden Files for this crap.



 Its so true that it can't be said enough.

And nope, I'm not even trying to watch this anymore. Its just...ugh.


----------



## Villano (Aug 25, 2007)

I guess no one is going to stick around to see the wingless hawkpeople, huh?  For those that haven't heard, apparently the hawkpeople are normal humans that follow the "way of the hawk", whatever that means.  :\ 

Ugh.  Seriously, it's like someone said, we're going to do Star Wars: The Series, but  we have a really low budget, so we aren't using spaceships.  And we can't do FX make-up, so all the aliens are human (Chewbacca will be played by a tall guy with a beard!).  We can't do lasers or explosions, so don't look for gun battles.  And you can totally forget about lightsabers.  We can only afford 3 sets:  one that looks like Earth, a forest, and a cramp, cheap palace....and most of the action takes place on "Earth".  Oh, and did I mention our bold re-imagining of Darth Vader?  The dark lord of the Sith will be portrayed by the guy who played the principal on Saved By The Bell!  We felt the whole cape and mask thing was kind of silly, so he's now wearing a business suit!

The sad thing is that this would actually be better than the Flash Gordon series. 

Sigh.  I read somewhere that they have 10 episodes filmed and ordered 10 more for  a full season.  God, I hope that's not true.


----------



## Templetroll (Aug 26, 2007)

Villano said:
			
		

> I guess no one is going to stick around to see the wingless hawkpeople, huh?  For those that haven't heard, apparently the hawkpeople are normal humans that follow the "way of the hawk", whatever that means.  :\
> 
> Ugh.




Wasn't the barbarian guy and the bounty hunter part of the lion people?  It seemed to fit his demeanor and the title, "Pride".    I'm not interested in this version, too many flaws in it.


----------



## warlord (Aug 26, 2007)

Is Mr. Belding on Flash Gordon?


----------



## Wycen (Aug 26, 2007)

warlord said:
			
		

> I know this has already been said but I can't believe they canceled Dresden Files for this crap.




They cancelled Dresden Files?  God damn that channel is drifting farther and farther into the cesspool.

I watched the 3rd? ep of Flash, with the happy bug.  The stuff on Mongo and Clancy were ok, but the wedding was crap.


----------



## Villano (Aug 26, 2007)

Templetroll said:
			
		

> Wasn't the barbarian guy and the bounty hunter part of the lion people?  It seemed to fit his demeanor and the title, "Pride".




Yep.  "Guy with a beard" now apparently equals "lion man".   It's a shame.  The guy wasn't bad.  Too bad they couldn't afford any make-up.




			
				warlord said:
			
		

> Is Mr. Belding on Flash Gordon?




No.  I was just mocking the totally unthreatening new Ming.  Mr. Belding was the only guy I could think of who was even less intimidating.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Aug 27, 2007)

I did watch episode 3 and it was bad in so many ways. So far the only good thing about the series is Karen Cliche who plays Baylin. She steals all her scenes and manages to rise above the director and do a good acting job all the time (a director should be raising everybodies level if they are good). Gina Holden who plays Dale is ok but I liked her better in Blood Ties. So far I am watching because it is on between Who and Painkiller Jane. Once Painkiller Jane ends Iwill probably only watch 1 or 2 more episodes just in case but I don't have high hopes.


----------



## Grymar (Aug 27, 2007)

Just chiming in to add my disappointment.  The problem that I see is that there is a distinct lack of Flash in Flash Gordon.  Let's just call him Bob, because that's how interesting it is.

I'm still watching it, hoping for something interesting, but during this past episode I fast-forwarded through the "b"-plot with Dale at the wedding.  Oh, and her dancing is atrocious.

Flash himself was a bit better, but I had to laugh when he punched the guard in the face...the guard who was wearing a helmet and face shield.  

But at least he and Aura had some chemistry this time.  Not much, but she at least is a bit more interesting than Dale.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 27, 2007)

Top 10 shows on Sci-Fi: Source: Nielsen Galaxy Report, 8/6/07 -- 8/12/07 

 ECW  1.5 
 Eureka  1.5 
 Flash Gordon 1.5 
 Ghost Hunters  1.1 
 Star Trek: First Contact  1.0 
 Stir of Echoes 2  0.9 
 Star Trek Enterprise  0.9 
 Doctor Who  0.8 
 Thirteen Ghosts  0.8 
 Stir of Echoes  0.8


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Aug 27, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Top 10 shows on Sci-Fi: Source: Nielsen Galaxy Report, 8/6/07 -- 8/12/07
> 
> ECW  1.5
> Eureka  1.5
> ...




Well that was for the opening week (to mix metaphors). Good to see Eureka that high on a regular show basis but Flash was heavily hyped for that week and alot of people tunned in to see the premire. Given how bad the episodes have been I am much more currious what the current numbers are.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 27, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> Well that was for the opening week (to mix metaphors). Good to see Eureka that high on a regular show basis but Flash was heavily hyped for that week and alot of people tunned in to see the premire. Given how bad the episodes have been I am much more currious what the current numbers are.



Will not know that until next week, should see the second weeks numbers later this week, I expect to see a drop (-.1 to -.2).


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 27, 2007)

Wow this show is bad.


----------



## papastebu (Aug 29, 2007)

sniffles said:
			
		

> You've got a good point there - they're trying to bring Flash Gordon to a new generation of people who may never have seen the '80s movie, let alone the '30s serials or newspaper strips.
> 
> I tried to keep that in mind while watching the premiere. But you'll notice I never made any comments about the missing rocketships or any of the things they changed. I just found the show dull and uninvolving.




Even though this is the case, it seems to me that they could have at least tried to include the themes of the old shows. Flash is supposed to be, basically, a go-getter type, and, faced with being stranded on an alien world, went and "got" what he needed. In the process of trying to find the way home, he encountered many other species, and they were so impressed with his loyalty, ingenuity, and drive to get things done while still holding on to his all-American morals and values, that they started developing a sort of planetary unity that was the thing that defeated Ming, eventually.
Also, the character's primary motivation, this series, to rescue a father that he thought was dead all these years, is removed from immediacy. One of the first rules in fiction is to start in the middle of the action, then fill in the backstory as it becomes relevant.
Flash's mom is unnecessary, they should have had Dale get captured and he had to rescue her, but they couldn't find a way back to Earth. They did the reverse of this, and that was one of the problems with the pacing, right there. The rescue of Dale seemed incedental, and Zarkov, who is supposed to be the "brains" of the trio, is someone who could be killed off, because he is not providing anything. The rescues were way too easy. Anyway, I didn't like what I saw, but I will watch until I lose interest completely, or until it interferes with watching "Heroes", whichever comes first.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 30, 2007)

Mmmmm - not much and could be seen as spoilers...

_Stargate SG-1 star Michael Shanks talked with TV Guide about his upcoming guest spot on SCI FI Channel's Eureka, the upcoming new SG-1 DVD movies and Rage of Angels, a pilot he's developing with SG-1 co-star Christopher Judge._

The interview: http://www.tvguide.com/news/michael-shanks-stargate/070829-02


----------



## Fast Learner (Aug 30, 2007)

Three episodes is enough for me. I wasn't expecting much, so I wasn't exactly disappointed, but I feel no need to waste any more time on it. I'm generally such an optimistic lad, too.


----------



## Pyrex (Aug 30, 2007)

Meh.  Ep3 = Totally Uninspiring.

One more ep before I jump ship...


----------



## Villano (Aug 30, 2007)

Well, here's some good news.  I read over on the Sci-Fi Channel forums (where, btw, the vast majority seem to hate the show, too) that the ratings haven't been very good.  The pilot scored 2.1 million viewers and a 1.5 rating.  Week two only pulled in 1.4 million people.  I'm not sure what that translates into in ratings, but posters have said it's between .9 and .7.  Week three...well, no one knows.  Someone posted Sci-Fi's ratings and they cut off at .5 with no sign of Flash, so it had to have scored less than that.

Flash looks to be losing half it's viewers per week.  After how terrible the last episode was, I'm sure there won't be as many back next week.  Sci-Fi may continuing airing the episodes they have, but it sure doesn't look like we'll be suffering through a season two.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Aug 31, 2007)

If things keep going they way they are we may not have to watch beyond the Atlantis premire in a few weeks. It doesn't matter if they ordered a full season, if the ratings are bad enough they lose less money by pulling it than by airing it.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Sep 4, 2007)

Next week's TV Guide has a couple of letters bashing the show. I wonder how it ever got on the air in the first place, as just about everyone who's seen it has been underwhelmed by it? I once read that the reason Alex Raymond invented the strip was because he wanted to take advantage of the new, brighter, colored inks that had become available to newspaper Sunday comics sections. Too bad no one involved with the show ever seems to have heard about that, it might have given them a clue as to what the show should have been about.


----------



## trancejeremy (Sep 4, 2007)

I really wanted to like the show. Even with the rather bad premise. I like Flash (he's a bit of a wimp, though), Dale is really cute, as is that bounty hunter lady. But everything else is just really really bad.


----------



## Pyrex (Sep 12, 2007)

Just saw the most-recent ep last night.

On the plus side, it's the best episode so far this season.

On the minus side, it's a really, really low bar.

On the OMG that was awful side, preview for next week:  "Hawkmen" in tattered cloaks jumping off buildings?  

I'm done.  *goes to find something else to watch*


----------



## Villano (Sep 12, 2007)

When I saw the "hawkman" flap his cape and yell, "Caw!", I remembered something Bruce Timm said way back when the Batman cartoon first began. He was asked about which characters will and won't appear on the show.  When asked about Killer Moth, he said, "The only way we'll use him is if we can get Dan Akroyd to do the voice and have him running around screaming, 'Aaah! I'm a bug! I'm a bug!'"   I never thought I'd see the day someone would actually do that.   

Flash Gordon depresses me.  I've never seen a science fiction series funded by the change someone found between the cushions of their couch.  I normally don't wish bad things on people, but I hope someone got fired for greenlighting this mess.


----------



## Cergorach (Sep 13, 2007)

I think that people went in with rather high expectations, i stopped doing that many years ago ;-) 

I find Flash Gordon entertaining, it has it's place right after Painkiller on saturday morings, right after i wake up early. There are a lot of shows i wouldn't call 'good', but if i only watched shows i would consider good, i would be watching very little TV (I already watch relatively little). As long as i find it entertaining i'll watch it.


----------



## horacethegrey (Sep 13, 2007)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> I think that people went in with rather high expectations, i stopped doing that many years ago ;-)



And that's why the creators deserve a sound thwacking. They took a beloved sci-fi property and turned out an extremely dull production. I'm sorry, but I find there's no excuse to turn in a lame scifi tv show in the wake of such quality programs such as _Farscape_, _Battlestar Galactica_ and _Doctor Who_ (it doesn't help that Flash comes out right after the good Doctor. The disparity between the two shows becomes painfully apparent in terms of quality).


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## Pyrex (Sep 13, 2007)

Cergorach said:
			
		

> I think that people went in with rather high expectations, i stopped doing that many years ago ;-)




I don't think it's unreasonable to expect more than we're getting out of Flash Gordon from a new series; even a relatively low budget one.

Exhibit a) Eureka.

While I suspect that they do have a slightly higher effects bugdet, they have a strong cast who can act and compelling characters.  Eureka is so much better than Flash Gordon it's hard to believe they're both being produced by the same network.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 14, 2007)

Flash Gordon doesn't need a big budget to have better pacing, a sense of fun, actual sex appeal and humor.

All of those, in fact, are _free_.

I mean, yeesh, the terrible 1980s movie looks like it was made for about $90, but at least it understood that the movie was supposed to be _fun_. This is the most dour, sad sack swashbuckling space hero I've ever seen.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 14, 2007)

Well, a sense of fun and humor require better writers, better pacing require better writers, directors, and editors, and sex appeal requires better directing and actors. They may well be tapped out on all of those fronts, with the crap they have now being all they can afford.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Sep 14, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Well, a sense of fun and humor require better writers, better pacing require better writers, directors, and editors, and sex appeal requires better directing and actors. They may well be tapped out on all of those fronts, with the crap they have now being all they can afford.



Better in these cases doesn't mean that the people required cost more. 
Aren't there some kind of minimum wages for actors and writers?


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## Brown Jenkin (Sep 14, 2007)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> Better in these cases doesn't mean that the people required cost more.
> Aren't there some kind of minimum wages for actors and writers?




I am sure I am paraphrasing but one saying goes: If there is one performance that stands above the others it is the sign of a good actor, If everyones acting rises above the norm it is the sign of a good director. I would hold a corollary that if if everones performace is subpar it is the sign of a bad director. The show has some decent actors that have shown they have some acting skill elsewhere and Karen Cliche has shown an occaisional ability to rise above the rest so I do not blame the actors for this mess. 

I blame Sci-Fi for underfunding the show, the set director and special effects director for not being more creative with thier limited resources, the writers who have no imagination, and the director(s) who don't seem to care.


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## trancejeremy (Sep 14, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> I mean, yeesh, the terrible 1980s movie looks like it was made for about $90, but at least it understood that the movie was supposed to be _fun_. This is the most dour, sad sack swashbuckling space hero I've ever seen.




I hope you are kidding about that - the budget for the movie was around $30 million, and it showed. The special effects in the movie were quite good, there were lots of huge models and sets, tons of extras in specially designed costumes. Yeah, the special effects deliberately mimicked the style of the old serials, but they were much, much, much better and quite expensive.


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## Villano (Sep 15, 2007)

I gave up on Flash two weeks ago, but I had to tune in last night once I saw those Hawkmen.  Wow.  That was...wow...

Top 5 moments on the show:

5.)  Mongo.  I know they're trying to do the show as cheaply as they can, but should you really farm out your FX work to the local 7th grade computer class?

4.)  Hawkmen.  We can't put wings on grown men; that would look silly.  Now, take off your shirt, put on this cape, and dance!  Don't forget, no matter what's going on in the scene, keep dancing!

3.)  Apparently, they have rayguns on Mongo, but no one's ever seen a bottle before.

2.)  Hawkmen flying.  See No. 5.

And the No. 1 worst thing:

The unseen monster.  Because nothing screams "quality production" quite like pretending there's a monster off screen because you can't afford to actually create one.  Well, on the plus side, at least they didn't try to pull the old "it's an invisible monster" trick (they're saving that one for a future episode).

And an honorable mention goes to teaching us that you can hold off a horde of thugs by tying a belt from a rail to the doorknob.  It won't matter that the door still opens almost halfway.  No thug will be able to squeeze through.  Or think of cutting the belt.  Or shooting it with their rayguns.


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## Swoop109 (Sep 15, 2007)

Last nights episode was the final straw.
How anyone can take a concept like Hawkmen and turn them into such a weak lame visual is beyond me.
I've been deluding myself into thinking that somewhere along the line the series would start to get better and that what I've been watching was just the actors, writers, and directors settling into the series.
In truth it seems to be going the opposite way. What few moments of real acting and connection that do happen seem to occur more by accident then planning. 

At least I have my collection of the old seriels and the 1980 film to remind me of what Flash Gordon is suppose to be. Maybe in 10 or 20 years another company will come up with a new version of Flash and get it right.


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## Cergorach (Sep 15, 2007)

Writer: Oh!!! There are going to be a couple of really cool space battles.
Producer: Nope, we don't have the funding for that.
Writer: Some cool near humans on an alien planet...
Producer: Nope, no funding...
Writer: Some cool outfits?
Producer: You can have five. For the whole season.
Writer: Some actors?
Producer: Maybe...

;-)


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## Villano (Sep 16, 2007)

I was looking around the old interweb for any reviews of this episode.  I didn't find any, but I did stumble upon a couple of old reviews that brought about an epiphany.  

We all know the new characterization of Ming is, to say the least, off.  A lot of people describe him as an accountant, but two reviews really nailed it for me.  One described him as a "mean boss" and joked, "Oh, I just know Ming is going to make me work late today."

The second, a review on the IMDB, described him as Bill Lumbergh from Office Space.

Oh.

My.

God.

That's it!  That's the character!  Can't you picture it?  Flash is strapped to a table, being tourtured.  The door opens.  Ming enters, cup of coffee in hand.  

"What's happening?" 

"What do you want, Ming?!"

"What did you do with those TPS Reports?"

"You'll never get them!  I'd rather die than give them to you!"

"Mmmm, yeah, well, here's the thing.  I'm going to need those reports Monday, so, I'm gonna need you to stay here over the weekend and retype them for me.  That'd be great."

"You monster!  I'll never...hey, wait, that's my stapler...!"


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