# Iron Bands of Bilarro



## kitcik (May 12, 2012)

srd said:
			
		

> Iron Bands of Binding: When initially discovered, this very potent item appears to be a 3-inch-diameter rusty iron sphere with bandings on the globe.
> 
> When the proper command word is spoken and the spherical iron device is hurled at an opponent, the bands expand and then contract to bind the target creature on a successful ranged touch attack. A single Large or smaller creature can be captured thus and held immobile until the command word is spoken to bring the bands into spherical form again. The creature can break (and ruin) the bands with a DC 30 Strength check or escape them with a DC 30 Escape Artist check. Iron bands of binding are usable once per day.
> 
> Strong evocation; CL 13th; Craft Wondrous Item, grasping hand; Price 26,000 gp;Weight 1 lb.




Had this used against me last night. Isn't this insanely powerful? Touch attack, no save, who can make a 30 str check? I mean, sure, someone with ranks in escape artist can get out, but otherwise it's a death sentence.

Note that the one used against me had the additional property of not permitting escape through teleportation / etherealness / etc.

How much would this add to the value?


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## StreamOfTheSky (May 12, 2012)

It sounds like an item that's very poorly balanced.  The 1/day and permanently breakable stipulations make it very unappealing to a PC.  But the magnitude of power it has makes it quite nice to an NPC.

Unfortunately, many things in the game have this sort of mis-balance.

What level was your character that had this used against him?  An NPC really shouldn't be able to be buying such expensive one-shot crap until somewhere in the teens for levels...  Grease could've given you a +10 on the escape artist, if that'd help.

No idea how much the dimensional anchor effect would add to the value.  Could just use the DMG pricing formulas for a 1/day use activated 4th level spell effect, though that table's far from perfect for estimating value.

EDIT: Freedom of Movement would instant free you, too.

According to pricing guidelines, I'm coming up w/ 11200 gp for a 1/day Dim. Anchor.

"Spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp"
Charges per day: Divide by (5 divided by charges per day)

(7 x 4 x 2000) / 5


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## kitcik (May 12, 2012)

Thanks for the reply.

The party is 11th - 14th level (5 players).

We tried Freedom of Movement, but that had no impact. We summoned a greater Earth Elemental, but it could not make the Str check even with my assistance (I mean it COULD have, but would have required an extreme roll). The elemental got Dispelled after one try.

I got hit with the Iron Band in the surprise round and it was a 4 hour battle in which I basically never got to roll a die after I realized I could not get out.

The BBEG got away to fight another day and was forced to leave the Iron Bands behind, which I eventually wiggled out of with the help of Grease and taking 20.


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## Piratecat (May 12, 2012)

Yeah, they don't have a dimensional lock effect for a reason. But hey! Now you have them and can use them on the bad guy!

Freedom of movement should have immediately freed you.


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## kitcik (May 12, 2012)

Piratecat said:


> Yeah, they don't have a dimensional lock effect for a reason. But hey! Now you have them and can use them on the bad guy!
> 
> Freedom of movement should have immediately freed you.




DM ruled that Freedom of Movement only helps escape artist checks in grapples and pins. Annoying as that was, as you said, now it's mine.

Is there RAW that could say FoM should have worked? There was another player who said FoM would not work, and I would like to convince him on the side for the future - i try not to ever second guess the DM as that kinda kills the fun to be honest.

Problem with using it on that particular bad guy, which would be poetic justice, is that he knows the command word...


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## Loonook (May 12, 2012)

Freedom of Movement said:
			
		

> ...even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web.




The effect of the Iron Bands, while physical, are delivered strictly through the magic effects of an item.  What would be more useful is a bola version of the bands... Though again trip doesn't necessarily impede movement, just trips the beast .

Slainte,

-Loonook.


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## Piratecat (May 12, 2012)

kitcik said:


> Problem with using it on that particular bad guy, which would be poetic justice, is that he knows the command word...




Cast silence on them before you throw them.


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## Wyvernhand (May 13, 2012)

Its a legacy item. It was in 2e, and probably 1e as well. They even made it into a spell in 3.5, but the spell version allows a save.

Like many legacy items from older editions, its either really lackluster or amazingly good.


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## Empirate (May 13, 2012)

Gaseous Form, Reduce Person, Alter Self into something small and skinny, Sandform, Windwalk... unless all of these were vetoed by the DM (which would almost start to scale this item up to lesser artifact), there should still be ways to get out.


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## animewatcha (May 13, 2012)

Freedom of Movement :: d20srd.org

Here is my question. When did said ruling happen? It sounds extremely like one of those 'on the spot' rulings that wind up disruptive to game-play rather than help it.


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## kitcik (May 14, 2012)

Empirate said:


> Gaseous Form, Reduce Person, Alter Self into something small and skinny, Sandform, Windwalk... unless all of these were vetoed by the DM (which would almost start to scale this item up to lesser artifact), there should still be ways to get out.





Sandform - have never found that spell in our world
Windwalk - does not work per DM
Alter Self - I am not an arcane caster (so no "self" spells)
gaseous Form or reduce person would have worked, but we did not have them memorized.



animewatcha said:


> Freedom of Movement :: d20srd.org
> 
> Here is my question. When did said ruling happen? It sounds extremely like one of those 'on the spot' rulings that wind up disruptive to game-play rather than help it.




Druid cast Freedom of Movement on me. DM said "it does not work, you are physically held and it is not a grapple or pin."

Even reading it now:
_"This spell enables you or a creature you touch to move and attack normally for the duration of the spell, even under the influence of magic that usually impedes movement, such as paralysis, solid fog, slow, and web. The subject automatically succeeds on any grapple check made to resist a grapple attempt, as well as on grapple checks or Escape Artist checks made to escape a grapple or a pin."_
It is not 100% clear to me that this would work under RAW, although RAI would indicate it should as it references escape artist and the Iron Bands allow an Escape Artist check.


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## animewatcha (May 14, 2012)

kitcik said:


> Sandform - have never found that spell in our world
> Windwalk - does not work per DM
> Alter Self - I am not an arcane caster (so no "self" spells)
> gaseous Form or reduce person would have worked, but we did not have them memorized.
> ...




Loonook should have quoted the entire thing as with things like that, one needs to 'search around' the exact spot to see if anything helps/hinders. Basically, under the duration of the spell, you could do whatever movement or attack you wanted. Heck, you could 'move' to take them off. You could use them as an improvised garrote. Whatever. Nasically, sounds like DM gave one of those rulings that should have been done/said before the game even started.

Heck, one should ask 'how they bind you' as if just hands are bound. You should still be able to run.


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## kitcik (May 14, 2012)

animewatcha said:


> Loonook should have quoted the entire thing as with things like that, one needs to 'search around' the exact spot to see if anything helps/hinders. Basically, under the duration of the spell, you could do whatever movement or attack you wanted. Heck, you could 'move' to take them off. You could use them as an improvised garrote. Whatever. Nasically, sounds like DM gave one of those rulings that should have been done/said before the game even started.
> 
> Heck, one should ask 'how they bind you' as if just hands are bound. You should still be able to run.




First let me say that I agree with both your interpretation and your points. 

That said, let me play devil's advocate and take the DM's side for a second.

It doesn't say "You can walk through metal bars" - I mean, you can't suddenly walk straight through a portcullis or a wall or a tree or a mountain just because you have freedom of movement. I wasn't magically held - I was encased in iron bars. The phrase "move and attack normally" could imply that if you are normally impeded by iron bars, you would still be impeded by iron bars. So, although I agree with your interpretation, I don't really have a problem with the DM's interpretation.

The only thing that annoyed me about that ruling was the fact that the bars specifically allow for an escape artist check and I would think Freedom of Movement would cause you to automatically succeed any escape artist check under RAI.

Oh well.

The dimensional lock thing was more annoying, but of course makes the item much more powerful now that it is in my hands. BWAHAHHAHA.

This seems like a great anti-mage item. Combined with the silence idea mentioned above, it knocks out somatic, verbal and material components AND command words, and mages are not likely to make a 30 str check or escape artist check without access to spells.


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## animewatcha (May 14, 2012)

Can you find a way for your body to fit through the iron bars through? Like squeezing through tight spaces ( within reason of course ). Basically, don't abuse it and it should be fine.  By all means, talk with the DM before next game session. Think up some 'scenarios' that might likely happen and have pre-determined solutions to help with. It won't solve everything, but it can helps things like this from 'not happening'. Like declaring freedom of movement 'wouldn't help' before it was being cast, so something else could be done. Hell, it's gotta have hitpoints. Sunder the SOB if you gotta.


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## Empirate (May 14, 2012)

animewatcha said:


> Can you find a way for your body to fit through the iron bars through? Like squeezing through tight spaces ( within reason of course ). Basically, don't abuse it and it should be fine.  By all means, talk with the DM before next game session. Think up some 'scenarios' that might likely happen and have pre-determined solutions to help with. It won't solve everything, but it can helps things like this from 'not happening'. Like declaring freedom of movement 'wouldn't help' before it was being cast, so something else could be done. Hell, it's gotta have hitpoints. Sunder the SOB if you gotta.




I agree, it was a bit of a dick move to just go "no effect, sorry" AFTER the Druid cast his spell. On the other hand, if the item in question was intended as some kind of 'puzzle problem' - find the right spell/power/skill, and you'll get out, but you have to try them first - then this would be OK with me. I've done the same at various times: let the PCs come up with some clever ideas which require resources to overcome a problem. But not any clever idea will automatically work.
In the heat of battle, however, not giving a hint what might work and what won't is dickish. Especially if it makes one player twiddle his thumbs for FOUR HOURS while he waits for combat to wrap up.

I like the 'hit it until it breaks' idea a lot. Every object in D&D is _bound_ to have HP. Even if it takes a DC 30 Str check to break them once you're bound up, it shouldn't be too difficult to just whack the damn thing to pieces.

Comparison: a 3'' thick iron wall has a break DC of 30, just like the Iron Bands of Bilarro. It has hardness 10 and 90 HP. Difficult, but not impossible to break. A 2'' thick iron door (hardness 10, 60 HP) has a break DC of 28. Now if we consider being bound up in the Iron Bands as imposing a hefty effective penalty on your Str checks while you're trying to flex your muscles, the "original" DC might be lower than that. Which would mean even fewer HP.


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## anest1s (May 14, 2012)

kitcik said:


> First let me say that I agree with both your interpretation and your points.
> 
> That said, let me play devil's advocate and take the DM's side for a second.
> 
> ...




It is a _magic _item right?

"even under the influence of _magic _that usually impedes movement"
It allows you to move trough a web spell, which is very similar to the walk through metal bars. However the metal bars example is irrelevant to the spell - it would be relevant if you were forcecaged, but in this situation you have animated bands that try to grapple you.

Also, freedom of movement without doubt would allow you to win a grapple with a Grasping Hand :: d20srd.org which is the spell used to create that magic item.


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## trancejeremy (May 14, 2012)

Well, bear in mind, it was a 1e magic item retro-fitted to 3e. 

It used to use the bend bars/lift gate percentage for Strength, but that doesn't really translate into Strength checks very well.


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## Empath Negative (May 14, 2012)

I don't think Freedom of Movement applies here.

There's a big difference between Magic... and a Magic Item. Further, consider the nature of the Iron bands vs. that of Solid Fog or Web.


Freedom of Movement doesn't allow you to walk *through* walls. Not as in Ethereal walk through them... but more He-Man walk through them. If I summon a wall of iron does Freedom of Movement allow you to walk through it?

If the answer is no, why would Freedom of Movement twist metal bands to allow you to escape? The wording is pretty plain, it allows you to escape from a grapple or a pin and the Iron Bands are doing neither, no more than you can grapple a piece of rope. Further the magic is instantaneous... and permanent. Not even an AMF would save you here.

Adding dimensional this or that etc etc was kind of sketchy... but it's DMs prerogative.


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## kitcik (May 14, 2012)

Empath Negative said:


> I don't think Freedom of Movement applies here.
> 
> There's a big difference between Magic... and a Magic Item. Further, consider the nature of the Iron bands vs. that of Solid Fog or Web.
> 
> ...




That's exactly how I felt except for one thing. A Wall of Iron does not allow for an escape artist check. This does. Should not a "Freedom of Movement" assist your escape artist check? If you can slip out of a grapple with it, can't you slip out of a tight squeeze?

Anyway, the purpose of the thread was not to whine - it was a great encounter even though I didn't get to roll any dice. The point was to say "this is a pretty wicked item - everyone should think about getting one, particularly if you can add a dimensional lock." [and Silence based on the above suggestion]


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## anest1s (May 14, 2012)

Empath Negative said:


> I don't think Freedom of Movement applies here.
> 
> There's a big difference between Magic... and a Magic Item. Further, consider the nature of the Iron bands vs. that of Solid Fog or Web.
> 
> ...






kitcik said:


> That's exactly how I felt except for one thing. A Wall of Iron does not allow for an escape artist check. This does. Should not a "Freedom of Movement" assist your escape artist check? If you can slip out of a grapple with it, can't you slip out of a tight squeeze?
> 
> Anyway, the purpose of the thread was not to whine - it was a great encounter even though I didn't get to roll any dice. The point was to say "this is a pretty wicked item - everyone should think about getting one, particularly if you can add a dimensional lock." [and Silence based on the above suggestion]




What are you guys talking about? I thought they were bands that tried to grapple you? Even if we accept that the  magic item isn't magical there is the plain grapple thing. Freedom of  movement would work against an animated rope?  Animate Rope :: d20srd.org I think it would. I imagine it like being a super-grease oil. It would help you move through a web (prevents the web from sticking), but not through a wall. It would help you escape artist through bars. If grease helps, freedom of movement def. helps. 

(+it says "magic" not "spell".)

Also the spell it was made of has a grapple DC exactly higher than 30+1d20 and you can choose other targets. If it wasn't for the duration the spell would be way better.

You tried dispelled the magic item?


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## kitcik (May 14, 2012)

anest1s said:


> What are you guys talking about? I thought they were bands that tried to grapple you? Even if we accept that the magic item isn't magical there is the plain grapple thing.




The description of the item does not use the word "grapple," although I certainly agree the effect is VERY similar.



anest1s said:


> Freedom of movement would work against an animated rope? Animate Rope :: d20srd.org I think it would.




This is a very good analogy. I think it would work, my DM does not. That's his prerogative. 



anest1s said:


> I imagine it like being a super-grease oil. It would help you move through a web (prevents the web from sticking), but not through a wall. It would help you escape artist through bars. If grease helps, freedom of movement def. helps.




That was my reasoning in asking the druid to cast Freedom of Movement. Sadly, the DM did not agree. It did not help that the player who is the bard agreed with the DM. Keep in mind that the "discussion" lasted less than 5 seconds as we let the DM rulings stand without argument. It was:
Me: "Please cast Freedom of Movement."
Druid: "OK, I cast it."
DM: "No effect."
Me: "But it helps with escape artist checks."
DM: "This is not a grapple."
Bard: "I agree."



anest1s said:


> You tried dispelled the magic item?




The fight: illusion of a normal town suddenly turns into BBEG (druid), his lieutenant (wizard), his red riding dragon (not that big), and a bunch of bozak fodder.

They got surprise. BBEG nails me with Iron Bands.
BBEG rolls natural 20 for initiative (he really did). I roll poorly and go near the end of the party (this encounter happened while a bunch of our magic items were in the process of being upgraded, so I had no init boosting items).
1
BBEG casts Blade Barrier in a circle around the two of us.
I try to teleport out of Bands (using Boots of Swift Passage - move action). No effect. Unsure why at that time.
I try to break free from Bands with my standard action. With Str 22, I roll a 19 and fail. Realize I need help and call out.
Druid summons a Greater Earth Elemental into the circle.
2
BBEG casts a spell. No apparent effect. (we think he tried to Dispel the Elemental and screwed his roll)
Elemental and I try to break bands together. He rolls 16 + 10 Str + 2 from my assist = 28. Fail. We didn't know at the time that it was close.
Lieutenant Dispels the Earth Elemental
Ranger moves through the blade barrier ethereally, but still takes damage as the DM rules that the force blades extend to ethereal plane.
3
BBEG does something offensive to ranger. I forget what.
Ranger makes me ethereal with an item. I still cannot get out.
Druid casts FoM at my request. No effect.

At this point, a LOT of actions have been wasted trying to free me while the bad guys have been wailing away. The party gives up and decides to go on full offensive vs. the baddies and just leave me be. They figure that as long as they apply pressure to the BBEG, he will not have time to finish me off - and in that, they were correct.

Eventually, the BBEG heals his (badly wounded) dragon and flies away. With a 150' flight speed, we could not catch him. We kill the lieutenant (who was a decent level wizard) and all the bozaks.


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## James the Newbie (May 14, 2012)

Just an idea, use the stick spell (I cant believe this spell has a use) To stick nails to the inside of the band, then when it expands and contracts, the opponent now has [possibly poisoned] nails embedded into them.


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## animewatcha (May 14, 2012)

DM shouldn't have needed 'to rule' on the blade barrier as it is a force effect. Does 'squeeze hands through a tight confines' count under the 'squeeze through tight space' realm?


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## kitcik (May 15, 2012)

animewatcha said:


> Does 'squeeze hands through a tight confines' count under the 'squeeze through tight space' realm?




I am not sure I understand this question.


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## animewatcha (May 15, 2012)

Squeezing through tight spaces is supposed to impede movement, no?

Size category of hand versus size category of cuffs.


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## Wyvernhand (May 15, 2012)

Similarly, FoM allows you to move and act and even attack with weapons while impeded by normal non-magical water unhindered.  Its not a wall of iron, but it is something that is non-magically impeding your ability to move freely like a set of metal bands might.  Slightly different, but also slightly similar.


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## guardian_rc (May 18, 2012)

Looking at a diff website that appears to have the 2nd ed definition of this item:  Iron Bands of Bilarro
"Any creature captured in the bands, however, gets the chance to break (and ruin) the bands by successfully _bending bars._ Only one attempt is possible before the bands are so set as to be inescapable."

I could see FoM or another spell/item helping with the Escape Artist check if it happened before the BBEG's next round and the bands becoming set.  As for trying to Sunder or hack the bands, they're wrapped around your character very tightly, I'd think you be on the receiving end of some bludgeoning damage.

I have a similar question that brought me to this thread.  My character has this item and I threw it at an Ogre Mage in flight.  My question is can he still maintain his Flight ability?  The DM had him go invisibile so we can't see him at the moment.  I know he can go gaseous form but didn't know if he would hit the ground first or if he's a flying "immobilized" invisible opponent.


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## StreamOfTheSky (May 19, 2012)

Ogre Mage has magical, non-winged, flight with good maneuverability.  So whether or not it can still fly, it can certainly hover in place wherever it was in the air when you hit it with the bands.  I don't think it could fly while paralyzed, though.  Even magical flight still isn't a purely mental action (like using telepathy to control your own movements or something).


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## grodog (May 20, 2012)

Historical footnote:  the original version of the Iron Bands of Bilarro were named the _Iron Bands of N'closur_ and were created by Rob Kuntz for use in the World of Greyhawk campaign.  They were placed in the "Orcky Level" (later incorporated into Castle Greyhawk, but I think it originated in RJK's Castle El Raja Key).  When Gary published Unearthed Arcana in 1985, he included the Iron Bands of Bilarro as an homage to Rob's item (the full powers of which he had never discovered in actual play):  Bilarro is an anagram of Robilar, Rob's main (and infamous) Greyhawk PC.

Their original powers, as detailed in Rob's _Daemonic & Arcane_ (Pied Piper Publishing, 2007) were:



> IRON BANDS OF N’ CLOSUR{1}:   When found this appears as a 1’ radius ball of iron straps, as if some gigantic strength had forced these into place by tightly winding them about the other like one does a ball of string. The ball is near weightless (10 pounds).  There are three commands words to compel its functions (see below); and the wielder need only speak these again to dispel its current function/form.
> 
> Iron Ball:  This causes the ball to animate and roll at 9” per turn.  Its force is enough to push aside loose/standing objects or beings up to 300 lbs. in individual weight. Impact damage is an automatic 10-30 points (shared, if impacting more than one object/being).  If the ball is stopped in its forward momentum it reverses direction, if possible, for 20-120 feet (2d6 roll) and then resumes its original course; and if stopped more than once in any given direction it will randomly change course to a new one. The ball can roll up surfaces with slopes of no more than 45 degrees. It must remain within 500 feet of the person who commanded it, or it ceases to function. The ball sustains 200 hp of damage before it is destroyed. Changing its current form into any of its other forms transfers its remaining hp to the new form.
> 
> ...




Enjoy!


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## Empirate (May 20, 2012)

grodog said:


> Historical footnote:  the original version of the Iron Bands of Bilarro were named the _Iron Bands of N'closur_ and were created by Rob Kuntz for use in the World of Greyhawk campaign.  They were placed in the "Orcky Level" (later incorporated into Castle Greyhawk, but I think it originated in RJK's Castle El Raja Key).  When Gary published Unearthed Arcana in 1985, he included the Iron Bands of Bilarro as an homage to Rob's item (the full powers of which he had never discovered in actual play):  Bilarro is an anagram of Robilar, Rob's main (and infamous) Greyhawk PC.
> 
> Their original powers, as detailed in Rob's _Daemonic & Arcane_ (Pied Piper Publishing, 2007) were:
> 
> ...




Wow, good stuff there, Mr. Grognard... err, I mean, [MENTION=1613]grodog[/MENTION]! 

Love origin stories!


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## StreamOfTheSky (May 21, 2012)

I just lol'd at, "The ball is near weightless (10 pounds)."


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