# EoM game discussion! (Was: EoM game recruitment!)



## MerakSpielman (Jan 16, 2003)

A little adventure just to feel out the EoM rules... Who's in? I'll DM if nobody else wants to.

Suggestions for game: All characters must be a mage or 1:1 ratio mage multiclass. All characters must have rationale for the spell lists they choose.


Anybody interested?


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## Krizzel (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd be interested.  I was planning on using those for an upcoming game, and it would help to test them out first.


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## GoldenEagle (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd like it.  Any specifics for creation (ECL etc)?


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## Keia (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd be interested in testing them out as well.

Keia


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 16, 2003)

If I'm DMing, I'd prefer PHB races.

Cool, that's four (with me). Anybody else?


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## Wippit Guud (Jan 16, 2003)

I'd be interested, but I'm unfamiliar with those rules....


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 16, 2003)

You need to pay to download the .pdf file here.

It's worth the money, believe me.

It essentially eliminates all classes with spellcasting ability and replaces them with an uber-customizable "mage" class. All the spells are redone into spell "lists" that get more powerful as you level up. You get spell points to use to cast spells. More powerful effects cost more points.


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## garyh (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm interested (shocking!) but don't own the EoM rules yet.  If you need someone to fill out the group, I'll buy the PDF and speed read the rules.

Of course, if you let me use another Nat20 product, _Four Color to Fantasy_, I'd be good to go!


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## Wippit Guud (Jan 16, 2003)

Well, have to wait a few hours until I'm some to see if I'm in a position to buy it


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## Wippit Guud (Jan 16, 2003)

I could also play a non-magic using class


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 16, 2003)

It's only $8, people.

I've got an idea that justifies the whole party being mages - not too creative an idea, but servicible (You are all students at a magical academy...)


We're just wanting to see how well the rules work, are they fun, would we want to use them in our home campaigns, etc, so non-mage characters wouldn't quite fit the experiment that well.

Seems to be a good level of interest though.


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## Wippit Guud (Jan 16, 2003)

$8 US.... that's like $40 Canadian 

In either case, I still have to be home. I just don't want to buy a book for just one adventure 

Just give me until 7PM EST to decide... I'm not in any of these yet, been waiting to get into one.


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## garyh (Jan 16, 2003)

True, it's just $8, but I also just bought a boatload of D & D books this week that I've hardly looked at.  I do want to get the book eventually, and if you need a player, I'll do it now, but I'd also need time to learn the rules, and you may want to just jump in.

You might consider posting a link to this thread in the Natural 20 forum, if you haven't already.


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## Krug (Jan 16, 2003)

I'm interested but I haven't gone through the book in depth. (Yes, buy the PDF and look at the pretty pics, I do... )
Let me know if a space is available.


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 17, 2003)

Complete understanding of the rules isn't required here, folks. Nobody understands them fully, since few people have used them. That's the point of this game . We'll only continue it after the short adventure if everybody's having a lot of fun (of course, a "short adventure" on the PbP board could potentially last months...). 

So, let's get organized.

Who wants to play who has already purchased, read, and been interested by the EoM rules?

Who's been waiting for a while for a chance to play a PbP game?

Since nobody else has volunteered, I'll DM. Let's keep the game small to make it move faster -- four players. Also to keep it moving, and to emphasize that it's a casual experimental game, everybody can roll up their own character and roll their own dice. read: no DM bookkeeping! PHB rules, except where overridden by the EoM. Full mage preferred for class, but half-mage multiclassing acceptible.


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## Krug (Jan 17, 2003)

Well I'm in! Will do up the character over the weekend. Sounds like a great way to learn the system.


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## Krizzel (Jan 17, 2003)

Well, I'd like to play, but I haven't bought EoM yet.  I tried earlier today but now rpgnow is not letting me sign in (I hit login and it keeps loading the same login page over and over).  I'll try to sort it out tomorrow.  So if you'll let me play given that, then consider me in.


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## Keia (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm in.  I have the PDF and would like to play!

Keia


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## Krug (Jan 17, 2003)

Now we just another guy whose nick starts with K...


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## Krizzel (Jan 17, 2003)

I've got the pdf now and just finished skimming it.  Looks very cool 

Any thoughts as to what level we're going to be?


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## Wippit Guud (Jan 17, 2003)

Look like I'm out (bummer)
Student loans take prescidence this paycheck.


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm thinking about 5th level.
We have Krug, Keia, and Krizzle. That's enough, but there's still a spot open.

Let's not bother with the subclasses of Mage this time. They can be replicated with the regular Mage class anyway.

I have a feeling that even with three or four people, there's no way anybody will choose the same spell lists. I did some calculating:

[calculation]
﻿20 elements
12 creatures
9 outsiders

11 Lists that affect elements = 220 lists
11 Lists that affect creatures = 131 lists
4 Lists that affect outsiders = 36 lists
21 Lists with no conditionals = 21 lists

total: 308 lists

Each with 9 spell levels = 2772 effects
[/calculation]

Cool!!


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## Victim (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm interested.


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 17, 2003)

I'm sorry Victim, but your user name doesn't start with "K"....

Just kidding.

That's 4.

Post your 5th level characters when you have finished them so everybody can see the other persons stats and spell lists and better understand the rules.


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## Victim (Jan 17, 2003)

MerakSpielman said:
			
		

> *I'm sorry Victim, but your user name doesn't start with "K"....
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> ...




I'll make my character's name start with a K, is that better.    I'll post my character tonight, probably.


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## Krizzel (Jan 19, 2003)

Here's a version of *my* iconic wizard character using the mage class.  I'll probably use him, but I've got a couple other concepts I'm going to try writing up if I have time.

edit - Oh, I should mention that I used 32-point buy for the stats, and 9,000 gp for items (from the DMG chart).  I took max hp for first and rolled the rest.  Let me know if any of that should change.


*Elwent Leondrahne*
Human Mage 5

*Alignment*: neutral
*Age*: 30
*Gender*: m
*Height*: 5’8”
*Weight*: 140 lbs
*Eyes*: green
*Hair*: auburn brown
*Skin*: light tan

*STR*: 8
*DEX*: 18
*CON*: 14
*INT*: 16
*WIS*: 12
*CHA*: 12

*Hit Dice*: 5d4 + 10
*HP*: 24 (4+1+2+4+3+10)
*AC*: 16 (10+4+2)
*Initiative*: +4
*BAB*: +2
*Melee*: +1
*Ranged*: +6
*Speed*: 30’

*FORT*: +3 (1+2)
*REFL*: +5 (1+4)
*WILL*: +5 (4+1)

*Dagger +1* +7, 1d4 piercing damage
*Ray* +7, damage by spell

*Race & Class Abilities*: Spellcaster level 5, moderate magical infusion (+2 dex), resist fear (+4), chosen spell list (Evoke Lightning, +2 DC and penetration)

*Spells*: Maximum spell level 3; Spell lists known 20; Magic points 23; Cantrips 6; Spell expert [Air, Lightning]

*Spell lists*: 
Abjure [Air, Force, Lightning, Sonic]
Abjure Magic
Command [Humanoid]
Compel [Humanoid]
Create [Air, Light, Lightning] Object
Evoke [Air, Force, Life, Lightning, Sonic]
Evoke Area [Air, Lightning]
Infuse Creature with [Air, Lightning]
Power Word

*Feats*: Silent Spell, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Weapon Focus (ray), Weapon Finesse (dagger)

*Skills*: (4+3+1)*(4+4) = 64 points, max ranks 8
Concentration	con	+8	/ 6
Decipher script	int	+11	/ 8
Dispel magic	wis	+9	/ 8
Divination		wis	+5	/ 4
Intimidate		cha	+5	/ 8x
Intuit direction	wis	+3	/ 2
Knowledge		int		
 - arcana			+11	/ 8
 - history			+6	/ 3
Scry			int	+10	/ 7
Speak language	-	-	/ 4
Spellcraft		int	+9	/ 6

*Languages*: common, auran, draconic, dwarven, elven, giant, sylvan, undercommon

*Equipment*: 
477 gp
+1 dagger				2,000
bracers of armor +2		4,000
ring of feather falling	2,200
potion of cure light (6)	300
scroll case				1
belt pouch (2)			2
spell component pouch	5
spellbook				15


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## Krizzel (Jan 19, 2003)

A few notes on my character that might be of interest (and perhaps give ideas for others building their own):

The original Elwent was arrogant and a bit unfriendly.  I had to give him more charisma than I normally would have since that's the stat that save DCs are based on.  Wisdom also is now an important stat with dispel magic based on it.

I focused on Air and Lightning (and the related Sonic, with a little bit of Light and Life).  Actually though, with 20 lists, you could spread out your element types pretty widely (especially if you just take Evoke [Element] and don't bother with the area versions).  One idea I had was to pick a wide enough array of elements so that I'd be able to deal extra damage to any elemental creature-type (in other words, have Evoke spell lists that oppose each element).  

Two other things to note with Evoke - black elements do the most dice of damage while white elements do less dice but with a higher die.  White elements also cause side effects at lower levels than black.  It's worth thinking about if you want to focus more on side effects than damage, and it also might be worthwhile to make sure you have at least one black and one white element.

The force element uses the smallest die but there's no save.  I took Evoke Force and Abjure Force for that reason.

Also, while we're thinking about evoke lists, wizards can now have cure spells!  Evoke Life on the 'touch' setting is a cure spell, but with the added flexibility of using it at range as a ray (I suppose you'd have to roll to hit though), or as 'cure missiles!'  You could also take Evoke Area Life to make curing 'circles,' though there are again several options to what shape you want the area to be.

Back to side effects - check out Create [Element] Object.  Even the cantrip of this list produces the low level side effect, and at level three you can get the medium effect.  I wanted a light spell, so I took Create Light Object.  But depending on the element it can also be used offensively - Create Air Object to call up a windstorm, for example.

Infuse Creature with [Element] is a useful buff spell, and could even determine which elements you pick depending on what abilities you want to be able to raise.  Note that it also provides a the ability to ignore some elemental side effects, and also provides elemental resistance when used to give a natural armor bonus.

Speaking of elemental resistance Abjure [Element] is another list that gives nice extras - especially the fact that a specific abjure spell also gives protection from all related elements at two levels lower power.  You could pick up a handful of abjure lists and be able to give at least limited protection from any element.  And while thinking about defenses, Abjure Magic is almost a must for anyone who wants to be able to seriously duel with other mages, with flexibility to provide spell immunities, spell resistance, or spell turning as desired.

Before I move on to what lists I rounded things out with, if you do go the route of focusing on Element-type lists, don't forget you'll qualify for Spell Expert if you take any three of the lists I've mentioned above with the same element.  The bonus for an expert isn't huge by any means, but it could come in handy.

So, I knew I wanted the Power Word list, as Elwent used those in past incarnations.  Also they fit with the Air-focus, and indeed Evoke Air fills the prerequisite for Power Word.  I really like the low-level words they've added, and adding Silent Spell onto them means I can cast them with just a thought when necessary.  

I also wanted sleep, which is one effect of the Compel [Creature] list.  I took Compel Humanoid to get that effect (plus all the other things you can get out of the spell - hold effects, turning effects, etc.).  I thought about getting Compel with another creature type, but decided on Command Humanoid instead as my last list (which has Compel as the prerequisite) to provide a few more options.  I'm pretty happy with those as I think they fit well with Power Word and the Air-focus.

Lastly, on boons, I had a hard time picking.  The major ones didn't really fit with what I was looking for, but I had about two more minors and one moderate in mind.  I feel compelled to point out that while the minor boon that provides a +5 bonus to one skill doesn't work with INT or CHA skills, divination and particularly dispel magic are WIS skills.  I almost took the +5 with dispel.

Well, I hope I provided some ideas, since we're mostly doing this to explore EoM.  I have to say I like it a *lot*.  Discovering the different ways to use spell lists is fun, and the flexibility is amazing.  Not just from having the sorcerer's ability to cast on demand, but the flexibility within a single spell list to choose both power level and the type of effect is...well...liberating   I'm sorely tempted to use it for all the games I run.  

I can't wait to test it out in play either, so let's get this together!  Does anyone need help with their character?


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## Keia (Jan 19, 2003)

Just a note,

This is gaming weekend (Saturday, Sunday & Monday - hoody-hoo!!) so I wont get to my character until Tuesday.

My apologizes
Keia


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## Victim (Jan 19, 2003)

How are we doing stats?  The unweighted, begin at 8, 32 point buy that Krizzel used?  DMG point buy?

I've decided on the following spell lists:

Prestidigitation (free)

**Fire: Evoke Area, Evoke, Infuse Creature, Infuse Object, Abjure, Create object, Summon

Fast Healing
Abjure magic

Sight
Teleportation

Wall of Force, Lava
Abjure Force
*Evoke: Force, Lightning, Lava
*Evoke Area: force, Lava


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## Krizzel (Jan 19, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *How are we doing stats?  The unweighted, begin at 8, 32 point buy that Krizzel used?  DMG point buy?
> *




LOL   Actually I *did* use the weighted, DMG point buy - but coincidentally it does work out to 32 unweighted as well.  What I did was start with DEX 15, added +2 for the moderate magical boon, and then +1 for the 4th level ability increase.

I like the fire and lava focus, BTW.  I've been looking at the Wall of [Element] list today and that's another nice way to use the side effects.


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## Krug (Jan 19, 2003)

All this is tentative. Still in the process of building him. Guess he'll be the muscleman of the group. Trying to load him with buffing spells. Any suggestions?

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*Inkar the Banished*, Half-Orc Barbarian 2/Grey Mage 3 (Earth); HD 2d12 + 3d6 + 10; HP: 41

Str: 18 Dex: 14 Con: 14 Int: 10 Wis: 14 Cha: 8

BAB: +4 Spellcaster Level: +3

AC: 17 (+3 Armor, +2 Dex, +2 Bracers of Defense)

Fort Save: +3 (Barb) +2 (G Mage) +2 (Con) = +7
Ref: +2 (G Mage) +2 = +4 Will: +2 (G Mage) +2 (Wis) = +4

Skills: (Rank/bonus)
Climb (1/+4) = +5; Concentration (4/+2) = +6; Handle Animal (4/-1) = +3; Knowledge [Nature] (2/+1) = +3; Hide (4/+2/cc)=+4; Intuit Direction (1/+2) = +3; Move Silenty (4/+2/cc)=+4;  Listen (2/+2) = +4; Ride (1/+2) =+3; Spellcraft (1/+1) = +2; Spot (2/+2/cc) = +3; Swim (1/+4) = +5; Wildernss Lore (5/+2) = +7

Feats: Power Attack, Cleave

Armor: Studded Leather+1 (Bonus: +3, ASF: 15%)

Weapons: 
Masterwork GreatAxe (+9[+4 +6 (Str, Two Handed) +1(MW)]/1d12+4/x3), Masterwork Mighty Composite Longbow +4 (+7 [+4 +2 (Dex) +1 (Str)/1d8+4/x3), Dagger (+8 [+4 +4(Str)/1d4+4/19-20x2))

Equipment: Bracers of Defense +2, Rope, 
Potion of Cure Light Wounds (x3)

Max Spell Level: 2, 12 Spell Lists Known, MP: 5, Free Cantrips: 4

Spell Lists:
Bind [Earth], Evoke [Earth], Infuse Creature with [Earth, Metal, Lava], Infuse Object with [Earth, Metal], Invisibility,  Summon [Earth, Metal], Sight, Wall [Earth]

Custom Spells:

Strength of the Earth: Inkar swallows a piece of rock and his Strength score increases by 4

Worms of Stone: When Inkar summons Elemental with the metal component, he summons forth long stone worms that attempt to trip foes. The statistics are otherwise as Elemental Spirit I.

Bind Booda: Inkar summons an elemental creature, Booda the Cowardly who never engages in combat. However, he can burrow through Earth and Stone to spy and relate what he sees to the half-orc. 

-----------

Inkar was a Half-Orc warrior who could hear the Earth speak to him. His power and strength made him rise quickly in his tribe, much to the envy of the leader Urik. Urik sent Inkar on a false quest, and ambushed him, but Inkar managed to escape. He wanders the lands, banished from his tribe, and fulfilling his potential in magic.

The spirits of his tribe have spoken to him, and say only through his magic can his tribe survive. At present, he wanders the world eager to learn. Inkar knows his spells aren't very effective against foes, so tends to use them to buff himself up.

Inkar never wears shoes, as he always wants to be next to the ground. His feet are rock-hard, with the composition of stone up to his knees.


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 19, 2003)

Great characters so far, folks! I can't wait to see the EoM rules in action.

oh, and 32 point buy is fine.

As soon as we have the stats for the other 2 characters we can get started.


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## Lichtenhart (Jan 20, 2003)

Do you still have room for one more? I'd like to playtest one of the revised classes (Bard, Paladin and Ranger)


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 20, 2003)

Sure, but make it a bard, since the other classes won't have access to much in the way of spellcasting available to them at 5th level and will be essentially melee types. We already know how to run fighter-type combat.


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## Victim (Jan 20, 2003)

Kera Nightshade
Human female Mage 5
N

STR 8
DEX 14
CON 14
INT 17 (19)
WIS 8
CHA 16

Spd: 30
Ini: +2
Att: +2 ( +1 melee, +4 ranged)
AC: 12 (+2 dex) 
HP: 24 (4 +10 + 2.4*4)
F: +1 (+4)
R: +1 (+4)
W: +4 (+4)

Feats: Spell Focus: Evocation, Spell Penetration, Bloodline of Fire

Skills:  Concentration 8 +10
Dispel Magic 8 +12
Spellcraft 8 +12
Knowledge Arcana 4 +8
Scry 4 +8
Intimidate 4 +7
Bluff 4 +7
Alchemy 8 +12

Boons:  1: +1 Caster level with all Fire spells, Chosen Spell list: Evoke Area Fire.  +5 bonus to Dispel Checks

Magical Stuff: +2 Headband of Intellect (4k), Amulet of the Evoker: +1 DC for Evocation spells* (2k), Cloak of Resistance +1 (1k), 2 potions of CLW (1) 100gp

Mundane stuff: adventuring gear, 5 flasks of Alchemist's Fire

PP: 45
GP 15
SP 8
CP 4

MP: 29
Cantrips: 6

Prestidigitation (free)

**Fire: Evoke Area, Evoke, Infuse Creature, Infuse Object, Abjure, Create object, Summon

Fast Healing
Abjure magic

Sight
Teleportation

Wall of Force, Lava
Abjure Force
*Evoke: Force, Lightning, Lava
*Evoke Area: force, Lava

Once upon a time, there was a powerful pyromancer.  After retiring from active adventuring, he sought the perfect apprentice so he could pass his craft on.  While another mage - one wiser and more versatile that his been companion in adventure - told him that his standards were impossible, he rejected student after student.  His search became an obsession.  In time, he became a lich, so that he could seek the perfect student beyond the limits of human lifespan.  But he hadn't fallen to evil yet.  Despite his intellect, he never imagined that, when he found his perfect student - he or she, or the parents since ideally the student should be taught from a young age - would refuse his offer.  Perhaps he finally found a student with the talents he desired or his mind snapped, causing him to fixate on the first suitable canidate.  Whatever the case, he decided that Kera Nightshade would become his student, regardless of her parents' wishes.  Naturally, they didn't survive the process, as simple farmers, as a general rule, don't survive a spell whose blast was visible for miles.


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## rangerjohn (Jan 20, 2003)

Krug, studded leather and bracers of armor do not stack.  They are both armor bonuses and the only ones that stack are armor and shield.


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## rangerjohn (Jan 20, 2003)

I don't have the book but perhaps you could get a permanant infusion of earth as natural armor for a magical boon?


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## Krug (Jan 20, 2003)

rangerjohn said:
			
		

> *Krug, studded leather and bracers of armor do not stack.  They are both armor bonuses and the only ones that stack are armor and shield. *




oops DUH. will spend that GP on something else then.
thanks. 

Good idea. I haven't looked at the infusion stuff yet. But Grey/Red Mages don't get boons...


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## Krizzel (Jan 20, 2003)

Krug said:
			
		

> *
> 
> oops DUH. will spend that GP on something else then.
> thanks.
> ...




I've been watching the Natural 20 forum lately, and it sounds like the colored mages will be errata'ed to get boons at some point - probably not as many as the plain mage though.

On the bracers of armor - get an amulet of natural armor instead.  It gives you a 'natural armor' bonus which does stack with the 'armor' bonus and a 'shield' bonus if applicable.


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 21, 2003)

we have:

Krizzel playing Elwent Leondrahne,
Krug playing Inkar the Banished,
Victim playing Kera Nightshade,
Lichtenhart wanting to play a bard/ranger/paladin,  and
Keia playing an unknown character.


I'll give Licht and Keia a couple more days to come up with a character and then we'll begin...


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## Keia (Jan 21, 2003)

Should be able to post mine tonight - right in this very spot!

Thanks for your patience,
Keia

Here's my idea for the EOM test - the Holy Paladin/Mage of the Order.

*Amisel Vesca * 
Human Paladin 1 / Mage 4

Alignment: Lawful good
Age: 26
Gender: Male
Height: 6’3”
Weight: 235 lbs
Eyes: Sky blue
Hair: Blonde
Skin: light tan

STR: 14 (16) - Infusion
DEX: 12
CON: 14
INT: 16
WIS: 10
CHA: 14 (16)

Hit Dice: 1d10 + 4d4 + 10
HP: 32
AC: 20  [+1 Dex, +6 Armor, +3 Shield] Flatfooted [19], Touch [11]
Initiative: +1
BAB: +3
Melee: +6
Ranged: +4
Speed: 20’

FORT: +8 (3+3+2)
REFL: +5 (1+3+1)
WILL: +7 (4+3+0)

*Race & Class Abilities:* Spellcaster level 4 1/2 , Simple and Martial Weapon Proficiency, Light and Medium Armor Proficiency, Shield Proficiency, Armored Casting (Major Boon), Detect Evil, Divine Grace, Resist Fear, Moderate Magical Infusion (+2 Strength), Minor Magical Infusion (+5 Sense Motive)

*Feats:* Weapon focus (longsword), Improved Initiative, Craft Wondrous Item

*Spells:* Maximum spell level 2; Spell lists known 18; Magic points 17; Cantrips 5; Spell expert [Life, Crystal]

Spell lists: 
Animate Object
Abjure [Crystal, Metal]
Abjure Magic
Compel [Undead]
Create [Crystal, Life] Object
Enervate and Restore
Evoke [Crystal, Life]
Fast Healing
Infuse Creature with [Life, Shadow]
Infuse Object with [Life, Force]
Invisibility
Life and Death
Sight

*Skills:* 56 points
Concentration +9 [7 Ranks]
Diplomacy +10 [7 Ranks]
Dispel Magic +6 [6 Ranks]
Divination +6 [6 Ranks]
Heal +4 [4 Ranks]
Intuit Direction +6 [6 Ranks]
Knowledge Arcana +7 [4 Ranks]
Knowledge Religion +6 [3 Ranks]
Sense Motive +9 [4 Ranks, +5 Infusion]
Spellcraft +9 [6 Ranks]
Spot +5 [+5 Competence]


*Equipment:* 
+1 Breast Plate [1,350 gp]
+1 Large Steel Shield [1,170 gp]
+2 Cloak of Charisma [4,000gp]
Eyes of the Eagle [1,000gp]
MW longsword [315 gp]


*Background:* 
Amisel Vesca is the older brother of Sir Bartola Vesca, a female Knight of the Crimson Eagle.  He is a respected member of that evil-hunting order of knights, a pious and devout paladin, and a holy mage.  His lack of wisdom is offset by the hard work and  diligence he feels toward his tasks.  Because he works so hard for what he knows, he can be tolerant of his equals and superiors but leaves little regard for those lesser than he.  Those who don't know him well say that his eyes are on the heavens so he does not see who he steps on here on earth.  

Amisel bears a breastplate and shield, enameled blue/white in honor of Mystra and the light of her grace.


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## Victim (Jan 21, 2003)

Hmm, I trying to think of way to create an effect like Fire Shield, that burns attackers.  I think maybe a Wall effect, wrapped around the caster, or a Create object effect.


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## Hammerhead (Jan 22, 2003)

Edited comment. I see now that this is full. Darn.


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## Keia (Jan 23, 2003)

I finished Amisel Vesca and was looking for suggestions and corrections.  I was trying to create a holy mage and I think I've got the healing abilities down.  

I still have some money to spend and some detailed spell descriptions to go.

Keia


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 23, 2003)

Sounds good, Keia. Looks like we might have a tough, battle-ready group here, ready to take on any CR 5 monster. 

Now I should put in some work on my divination puzzles...   Heh, just kidding.


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## Victim (Jan 23, 2003)

But what problems can't be solved with fire?  I thought that fire worked on everything?   

So we're all in a magical school?


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 23, 2003)

Yes, you are all going to be fifth-year graduates of the Bluetower Academy of Magic (BAM). The BAM has been in existence for centuries, founded by a very wise mage names Jaros Ryver. Its mission is to educate people with magical talent to bring out the fullness of their individual potential.

At the end of the fifth year of rigerous study (equaling 5th level of experience), students are grouped into random bands of four or five students and assigned a Test (a concept shamelessly stolen from numerous fantasy sources). They must step through a pre-arranged portal and overcome a series of ﻿obstacles, eventually passing through another portal back into the main chamber of the school. The instructors watch the proceedings through scrying devices and assess the creativity, power, and resoursefullness of the students. Generally, any student that completes the course without cheating is allowed to graduate, regardless of their magical tactics. Occasionally there are fatalities among those taking the Test, but this is rare.

When the game opens, it will be graduation day, and yourselves and two other groups are nervously awaiting the Test. You will go first.


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## Krug (Jan 25, 2003)

Ok raring to go...


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## Victim (Jan 27, 2003)

Ready to roll.  I guess Kera is a transfer student, who played catch up on knowledge arcana and her non fire/force/lava lists.


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## Lichtenhart (Jan 27, 2003)

Please, don'wait for me anymore. I honestly couldn't find a way to design a char of my liking, and I don't want to delay you any more. I'll follow the game, though, and I wish you fun.


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 28, 2003)

ack! When they rearranged the forum, my "email notification" got disabled. I didn't realize anybody else had posted to the thread. My fault for not checking manually.

The game thread will start up tonight when I get home. I'll post a link to it here.

Thanks for your patience!


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## MerakSpielman (Jan 29, 2003)

The thread is open HERE!

We'll wait for everybody to post there to make sure everybody has noticed it at least once.

Roll your own dice. I will post stats of opponents. You should be able to figure out what your own spells do by yourself (unless it's a clever puzzle-defeating spell, in which case I have to judge.

If we're liking the game near the end, I'll tweak the plot to allow us to keep playing.

See you there!


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## rangerjohn (Jan 30, 2003)

*Krug's damage*

Don't forget that str bonus to damage is times 1.5 with a two handed weapon like the great axe.  That works out to +6 at 18 str and +9 at 22.


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## Krug (Jan 31, 2003)

Thanks rangerJohn. Forgot about that!


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## Victim (Feb 4, 2003)

Actually, since I was trying to goad the goblin into action, I figured it would be more of a bluff check.  Either way, my intended result will be pretty much negated because the goblin's ring invalidates my argument

Also, the Teleport spell list has the following target line:

"Medium size or smaller creature or object + 50 lbs. per level"

Does that mean that the boulder would be a valid target for a Teleport?


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 4, 2003)

The boulder could be a target if you were high enough level, but I think a 10-foot diameter sphere of stone just _might_ weigh more than a few hundred pounds.


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## Victim (Feb 7, 2003)

Err, according to Table 1-2 on page 7, spell costs are as follows:

0: 0 or 1 if all the free cantrips have been used
1: 1
2: 3
3: 5
4: 7
5: 9
etc.

Can Kera do something a bit different on her turn, since it might be a good idea to respond to her attacker?


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 7, 2003)

Hm. I'm at work, and can't check the book, but I could have sworn a cantrip was either free or cost 1mp, and a 1st level spell cost 2mp.

You can do something different, no problem. Just post it.


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## Keia (Feb 7, 2003)

Yup, that's the table.  (Ah the benefits of a pdf - at work  ).

Keia


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 7, 2003)

You're right. 1mp for a 1st level spell. I don't know where I got 2 from.

Does anybody else think PW: Exhaustion is a bit overpowered for a 1st level spell? Especially with no save? I mean, the PHB second level buff spells only give a 2-5 point bonus to a single ability, for a shorter time. This is a first level spell that penalizes two attributes of potentially many creatures with no random variables and no saving throw.

That brings up another issue. Do you thing the EoM rules are _trying_ to produce spells that are equivelent in power to the PHB spells of the same level? If so, did they largely succeed? If not, was the difference in power (in whatever direction) the right way to go?

Let's think about these questions as the game progresses, but feel free to post your thoughts at any time (of course).


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## Keia (Feb 7, 2003)

I would probably move Exhausted to 3rd level (it feels okay there) so my list would be:

0:  Fatigue  (or maybe Daze for one round - like the cantrip)
1:  Knockdown
2:  Daze (longer duration)
3:  Exhaustion
4:  Nausea, etc.


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## Krizzel (Feb 8, 2003)

Yeah it didn't take me too long to pick that one out as the best one to try (especially since I didn't want to spend too many points).  I think Daze is better than Exhaustion, though the durations could definitely be adjusted.  Knockdown didn't seem that useful to me.  Daze and Nausea also seem kind of similar.

I think a nice house rule for this list (I really like the idea for the list, BTW) would be to have a variety of effects available, gaining more as you increase the level, and having longer durations as you increase the level.

As far as a simple fix for exhaustion I'd say switching it with knockdown might do the trick.  Does anyone else see any problems with the other levels of PW?

As far as balanced vs the PHB goes, I think that's what they did (we could always go ask, too), and then maybe they used prerequisites to balance further?  I look at Monte Cook's site now and then and he said something recently about how the PHB spells at each level were not necessarily balanced with each other (ex, magic missile).


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## Krizzel (Feb 8, 2003)

Another thing, as I was trying to figure out what to do for this round (or actually a few things):

DCs are 10 + spell level + CHA mod, right?  I thought I saw it somewhere but I can't find it now.

Evoke just doesn't seem to compare to Evoke Area.  Unless I'm reading wrong, Evoke [Element] requires you to first hit the target, and then they get a save too?  I suppose the attacks would at least be ranged touch, though.  However the Area version just gives a save that I can see - no attack roll necessary.


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## Victim (Feb 8, 2003)

Using Energy missiles increases the damage potential of Evoke.    A high level caster can shoot 9d4+180 with Evoke Force and some nice hit rolls.  But I still like Evoke Area.


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## Krizzel (Feb 14, 2003)

Hey guys, we should set up a Rogue's Gallery and post the characters over there.  I keep forgetting what everyone else can do  and I think we might be able to coordinate our spells a little bit more.

What does everyone else think?


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## Keia (Feb 14, 2003)

Sure, why not.  We are working together, and they're tough to find in the threads.  

Also,  I've been holding back because I wasn't sure if we could rest,  Merak are we going to be able to rest between tasks (did anyone say?)?

Keia


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## Krizzel (Feb 14, 2003)

Keia said:
			
		

> *Sure, why not.  We are working together, and they're tough to find in the threads.
> 
> Also,  I've been holding back because I wasn't sure if we could rest,  Merak are we going to be able to rest between tasks (did anyone say?)?
> 
> Keia *




I don't think anyone said we _couldn't_, so... 

I sure hope so, as I'm burning through MP pretty quick.  Next time I think we need to channel our enemies some how - Elwent would like to be safely behind our melee types!  Somewhere he can use his Infuse lists and healing power, along with the fire support of course.


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## Keia (Feb 14, 2003)

I am pretty confused by the placement of everyone in the combat, making it difficult to plan spells properly.  

I have a question:  I have Evoke Life, so can I heal others at range with an Evoke Life Blast?  That would be way too cool!

Keia


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## Krizzel (Feb 14, 2003)

Keia said:
			
		

> *I am pretty confused by the placement of everyone in the combat, making it difficult to plan spells properly.
> 
> I have a question:  I have Evoke Life, so can I heal others at range with an Evoke Life Blast?  That would be way too cool!
> 
> Keia *




Isn't it? 

I almost did this for Kera this time around but the invisibility would've stopped me.  But yeah, with Evoke Life you can do it as a touch or ray (as the first 'damage') or a number of missiles (as the second 'damage).  Touch or ray goes to one person, while the missiles can be split as long as the targets are nearby, I think.  Not sure if you'd have to roll to hit or not for the ranged version though, considering it's not a harmful attack.

Evoke Area Life is like the various 'healing circle' spells, except you could do fan, sphere, or cylinder.  Pretty nice


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## Victim (Feb 14, 2003)

The reason there are 2 parts to Kera's move is because I wanted to change her action after the elemental pounded her from another animate object effect to a counter attack.  It'd be stupid to continue messing with the rock with an enemy in your face.  The second part was for the next round, after Amisel casts Invis.
---------------------------------------------------
I agree.  I'm afraid Kera's going to end up hitting several party members when she swings the Inferno Lance around.  And I rolled really high on damage too.

We could also be much more coordinated.  For example, it would actually have been better for Amisel and Elwent to mess with the rock.  They both can Infuse it with a Fly speed, and thus split the costs between them.  Kera could have just blasted the goblin to get him out of the way.

Kera could use a rest too.  Fighting really burns up MP.  For Healing, I think that the Fast Healing line of spells is more MP efficient.  Also, because it takes a fairly high level spell to have a good effect, characters will usually cast higher level spells.  For example, it takes a 4th level spell to have an hour/level ability buff.  

I still don't know how to create a Fire Shield either.


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 14, 2003)

> Using Energy missiles increases the damage potential of Evoke. A high level caster can shoot 9d4+180 with Evoke Force and some nice hit rolls. But I still like Evoke Area.



the Force element allows no save, but does less damage and has no nifty side effects. Also, there are no creatures especially vulnerable to it. Against creatures with poor reflex saves, or cold-subtype creatures, fire is better, for instance. I think the only balancing factor between _Evoke: Element_ and _Evoke: Element: Area_ is the prerequisite and mp cost.



> Also, I've been holding back because I wasn't sure if we could rest, Merak are we going to be able to rest between tasks (did anyone say?)?



Well the teachers didn't mention this did they?   But I have a feeling you'll find some way to recharge...  



> I still don't know how to create a Fire Shield either.



I think we'd need a new list for that, like _Shield: Element_ or something. I see no reason not to make new lists to get what we want. This sounds like a good list to house-rule. Longer duration and more damage at higher levels - pretty simple.


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 14, 2003)

> The reason there are 2 parts to Kera's move is because I wanted to change her action after the elemental pounded her from another animate object effect to a counter attack.  It'd be stupid to continue messing with the rock with an enemy in your face.  The second part was for the next round, after Amisel casts Invis.




The only flaw in your reasoning is that Amisel acted before you did and turned you invis before you had a chance to cast the damaging spell. If he had known you were going to fry them, he could have delayed his action and invised you after the barbeque. As it is, you ended up invis before your attack spell went off, leaving you in a personal pickle. I figured you would heal yourself while figuring out what you wanted to do.

I'd imagine Kera might have some strong words to say to Amisel about this ("Don't cast a spell on me unless I ask for it, dolt!" "I was just trying to help you!" etc etc....).


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 14, 2003)

Keia said:
			
		

> *I am pretty confused by the placement of everyone in the combat, making it difficult to plan spells properly.  *




If you take a look at my other PbP game (link in sig) you can see what we're doing there with the battle maps. We can use them in the future if you like.



> *
> I have a question:  I have Evoke Life, so can I heal others at range with an Evoke Life Blast?  That would be way too cool!
> *




Watch that you don't catch the enemies in the blast. 

Though if hordes of Undead foes are the ones causing all the damage, this starts to get _really_ useful...


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 14, 2003)

Krizzel said:
			
		

> *Hey guys, we should set up a Rogue's Gallery and post the characters over there.  I keep forgetting what everyone else can do  and I think we might be able to coordinate our spells a little bit more.
> 
> What does everyone else think? *




go right ahead, I say, and post a link to it here. I don't frequent RG much...

I _did_ notice that you all didn't talk/coordinate much before dashing into adventure. Maybe you're wishing you had taken the time, eh?


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 14, 2003)

(Let's see how many posts I can do in a row...)

I thought I'd mention that I _am_ arranging a non-combat solution to each of the Trials. Any way of solving them is perfectly valid, but I'm trying not to make combat the only solution. The goblin, for instance, would have responded to flattery or bribery, or could have been lured away with illusions or other distractions, bluffed, charmed, etc... 
There were four things that I decided would make him angry enough to take a swing at you: tampering with the boulder, attacking him, insulting him (since he thinks a King commands respect), or demonstrating power over water (since he thinks he controls all water, if you have power over it, you must have stolen it from him).  After that, if you damaged him beyond a certain point, he would call on his elementals for assistance as he fled. Your evoke life water spell pushed him over the edge.
 I love making insane NPCs.


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## Keia (Feb 14, 2003)

Hey . . . .who you calling a dolt?  

I think everyone else wanted to keep their powers close to the vest until we realized that we'll have to work together to have any shot.  Amisel understands that everyone needs to work together - 'course he didn't say very much about himself either.  

I'm sure we'll gel after the combat - assuming we're still around.


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## Victim (Feb 14, 2003)

So about the only thing we didn't do to the goblin was attack him right away.    I figured that there'd be a noncombat solution for this test - it just seems that we picked the wrong ways of doing it.  That compulsion: Thirst was a great idea, except for the goblin not needing to drink.  

Kera explained about 3/4 of her spells quite succintly, IMHO.  She provides fire support in both the literal and tactical sense.  Most of her spell lists are Evocations or Fire spells.  But those Infuse spells are very versatile.  I forgot to get Polymorph Fire, though.


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## Victim (Feb 14, 2003)

Oh yeah.  Kera will ignore the invisibility, and contine her attack.  She will try to avoid hitting Amisel - possibly changing spell areas.  Changing spell areas will remove the side effects.

Also, perhaps the 1st level Power Word could cause Fatigue instead of Exhaustion.  A -2 penalty to STR and DEX within an area seems more balanced than a -6.  As written, the PW compares favorably to Ray of Enfeeblement in most cases (Ray attack and Save negates versus HP limitation with no save and an area of effect).


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 14, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Oh yeah.  Kera will ignore the invisibility, and contine her attack.  She will try to avoid hitting Amisel - possibly changing spell areas.  Changing spell areas will remove the side effects.
> *




Just to make sure I have this absolutely clear: She will do her attack spell _instead of_ the healing spell, right after she is turned invisible?


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## Victim (Feb 14, 2003)

Yes.

It's probably not the best move.  But you can always heal later.  If you survive.


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## KitanaVorr (Feb 23, 2003)

I like how magic works with EoM  and I'd like to play when you guys finish up testing out the EoM rules.

EDIT: way way far in the future ;p b/c I'm seriously busy as hell right now


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 24, 2003)

We'll see, KitanaVorr. After all, we might not be interested in starting up a campaign-length game after we finish this one.


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## Keia (Feb 26, 2003)

Merak,

Perhaps you should change the title of this to something other than recruitment since we are full.

Keia


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## MerakSpielman (Feb 26, 2003)

good notion. done.


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