# AMpersand #400 Bill S leaving WotC (and others?)



## GMforPowergamers (Jun 23, 2011)

link

OMG...

 you will be missed bill

I hope this is not a bad sign of more lay offs

and I hope you are going onto greener grass...


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## MacMathan (Jun 23, 2011)

Damn, I hope he stays in the RPG industry if that is what he wants as I like his work.

Best wishes either way.


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## Scribble (Jun 23, 2011)

Wonder who is going to take his place?

Best of luck to him!


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## mudbunny (Jun 23, 2011)

Best of luck Bill!!


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## Riastlin (Jun 23, 2011)

Kind of ironic that this comes out the same week as Rob Schwalb's recent blog posts about freelancing and how game design isn't a great career choice.


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## Plane Sailing (Jun 23, 2011)

Worth moving to the broader exposure of the General forum I think.

Good luck Bill !


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## Mouseferatu (Jun 23, 2011)

As posted elsewhere...

Holy crap. 

I'm not really sure what to say, except "As a fan and a freelancer--thanks for everything, Bill."


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## Ktulu (Jun 23, 2011)

Riastlin said:


> Kind of ironic that this comes out the same week as Rob Schwalb's recent blog posts about freelancing and how game design isn't a great career choice.




Not really ironic -- the guy has had almost twenty years in the business.  I'd kill for that kind of stability for the next twenty.


On topic, though, you will be missed Bill!


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## Alzrius (Jun 23, 2011)

Also as posted elsewhere:

Whoa, this is huge!

I for one salute Bill. He's been a name at TSR/WotC for about as long as I've been playing the game, and his work is on a number of products that I adore. Bill, good luck in your future endeavors!

Of course, I still can't help but wonder about the details. Like, when is he actually leaving? And is it voluntary on his part? And what, if anything, does this signify for WotC's future?

I know we'll probably never know - and that there's a credible case to be made that we shouldn't know - but I'm still curious.


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## Dice4Hire (Jun 23, 2011)

That is a hell of a tenure at WOTC. Good-bye.


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## catsclaw227 (Jun 23, 2011)

Good Luck Bill!  I hope WotC does not pass that baton lightly; we need to have stable leadership at the top.


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## darjr (Jun 23, 2011)

Good luck Bill. I'm interested in where your next adventure will be, as a fan.


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## diaglo (Jun 23, 2011)

also as posted elsewhere: thanks Bill for Alternity. i enjoyed that game.

i hope he is at Gen Con this year. i might have to get him to sign my Dungeons & Dragons for Dummies book. i bought a copy for every member of my group when it came out.


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## FreeXenon (Jun 23, 2011)

Good luck and thanks for all of your work! 
Alternity, Darksun, and Star Wars, and Planescape are some of my favorite settings!


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 23, 2011)

Mouseferatu said:


> As posted elsewhere...
> 
> Holy crap.
> 
> I'm not really sure what to say, except "As a fan and a freelancer--thanks for everything, Bill."




I do wonder (and as a freelancer you may or maynot have insight here) how much of policy will be up in the air next month...and if there could be a huge change here...


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## Plane Sailing (Jun 23, 2011)

Just seen a tweet from Monte Cook:

_I wish the best for those laid off from Wizards of the Coast today. Some were good friends. All, I'm sure, are talented and capable._

So it seems there are more...

I've altered the title of the thread accordingly, so site visitors can see what is being talked about here.


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## IanB (Jun 23, 2011)

I've heard via the grapevine that Steve Schubert is also moving on.


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## Owen K.C. Stephens (Jun 23, 2011)

Bill greeted me on my first day at WotC, advised me on tricky Star Wars design choices, and let me shoot him with a Nerf gatling gun on my last day. I wish only good things for him.

I have heard word that Michelle Carter and Stephen Schubert are also leaving as of today, though I haven't confirmed those yet.

Edit: Their departure is now confirmed.


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## Lhorgrim (Jun 23, 2011)

I hate to hear this.  I loved Alternity, and many of the other products Bill contributed to.

I thought the WoTC layoffs usually took place near the end of the year.


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## ArcaneSpringboard (Jun 23, 2011)

Michelle Carter has been around a looooooong time too.


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## Nemesis Destiny (Jun 23, 2011)

Oh, to be a fly on the wall at WotC HQ...


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## Owen K.C. Stephens (Jun 24, 2011)

I've been that fly on the wall. It's no fun.


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## _NewbieDM_ (Jun 24, 2011)

If I'm the new holder of the Star Wars RPG license, i'm scooping up Bill S. 
Just sayin'.


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## Caerin (Jun 24, 2011)

Best of luck to all affected. You've been involved in a lot of great things, and your contributions are appreciated. Thanks.


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## I'm A Banana (Jun 24, 2011)

Layoffs, eh? Suck. I hope everyone moving on finds fertile fields. It's hard out there for a pimp...er....game designer....

I know layoffs is something you have to prepare for working at WotC (I remember the regular Christmastime layoffs of yesteryear pretty vividly), so I hope, at least, it wasn't much of a surprise, and you guys can land on your feet well. 

Thanks for the quality jazz!


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## Zaran (Jun 24, 2011)

Its sad because it means there are even less people running WotC.


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## Klaus (Jun 24, 2011)

Sad to hear it.

Thanks for all the crodlu, Bill!


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## Stumblewyk (Jun 24, 2011)

As someone who was laid off for 10.5 months a little over two years ago, my sympathies, thoughts, and prayers go out to anyone who loses their job through no fault of their own.

As a fan of D&D, I have a sick feeling in my stomach.  I hope that's just an overreaction to what looks like really bad news for the property.

As a fan of D&D, and someone who knows the pain of being laid off, I'm hoping for the best for those released by WoTC today.  Good luck, and thank you for your time, efforts, and hard work!


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## Cyberzombie (Jun 24, 2011)

Definitely my sympathies to all who were laid off.  It's not much fun and this job market sucks across the board.


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## joethelawyer (Jun 24, 2011)

deleted, duplicate


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## joethelawyer (Jun 24, 2011)

Good luck to all who got laid off today at WOTC.  Hang in there.  

(seems there were multiple people let go, per monte cook's tweet)


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## catsclaw227 (Jun 24, 2011)

You can add my sympathies to those laid off.  In my previous post, I had assumed he was the only one leaving.  

Does anyone know the reasons behind the layoffs at this time of year?  Are there some issues with the D&D property?


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## AeroDm (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks for all the hard work to those folks leaving D&D today and best of luck now and in the future.


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## Owen K.C. Stephens (Jun 24, 2011)

catsclaw227 said:


> Does anyone know the reasons behind the layoffs at this time of year?  Are there some issues with the D&D property?




I'm pretty sure this is the end of their fiscal quarter, and maybe their fiscal year.


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## Riastlin (Jun 24, 2011)

As someone who was laid off just over a year ago my heart goes out to anyone who was let go.  I got lucky and was only out of work 3 months, hopefully everyone let go today has the same luck.  Hopefully D&D doesn't suffer too much from this, as much as people complain about WotC, I gotta say I have thoroughly enjoyed D&D ever since I started playing about 12 years ago.


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## diaglo (Jun 24, 2011)

Lhorgrim said:


> I hate to hear this.  I loved Alternity, and many of the other products Bill contributed to.
> 
> I thought the WoTC layoffs usually took place near the end of the year.




they've had them prior to Gen Con in the past.

mostly though you are right they are around Xmas time.


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## joethelawyer (Jun 24, 2011)

OStephens said:


> I'm pretty sure this is the end of their fiscal quarter, and maybe their fiscal year.




Earnings conference call coming up mid-July with Hasbro.  This is typical proactive corporate CYA behavior when a division isn't meeting their expected earnings goals.


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## Alphastream (Jun 24, 2011)

I can't thank Bill Slavicsek enough for his work on Dark Sun, Alternity, and so many other parts of D&D. Slave Tribes, a sourcebook for Dark Sun he wrote, was a big influence for the most recent chapter of Ashes of Athas. 

I've been laid off twice. Each time it has initially been incredibly painful but eventually led to vast improvements in my life. I hope the same will be true when those that were laid off today look back a few years from now.


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## MerricB (Jun 24, 2011)

I hope Bill, Michelle and Shoe manage to find new jobs soon. They've done some wonderful work over the years they've been with Wizards (and TSR, for Michelle and Bill).

I will be fascinated to see what happens to D&D now. Bill Slavicsek has been there for a long time now, and I think it's fair to say that the last few years (and especially the last one) have not been the best for D&D. Whoever takes over the job now has a massive task in front of them, and I hope it will be done well and in a manner that we appreciate.

Cheers!


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## Mark CMG (Jun 24, 2011)

Best of luck and a speedy transition to all.


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 24, 2011)

Not good.

My sympathies to all. 

The Auld Grump


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## Scott_Rouse (Jun 24, 2011)

Sad to hear about good people losing (or voluntarily leaving) jobs they loved. I hope Bill, Michele, and Shoe all land on their feet working on something they love. One can NOT underestimate their individual contributions to the hobby game category (and games industry). 

Clear up a couple things I read that are not correct. 

Hasbro fiscal is January - December. 

This has nothing to do with an upcoming earnings call. Hasbro is a 4 billion dollar a year company with a market cap of 5.95 billion. Wall Street does not care about a layoff of a handful of employees.


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## czak (Jun 24, 2011)

I hope it was voluntary. Laying off spouses in one fell swoop would be cold.

Best of luck to all.


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## Banshee16 (Jun 24, 2011)

czak said:


> I hope it was voluntary. Laying off spouses in one fell swoop would be cold.
> 
> Best of luck to all.




Hah...I doubt they care.  My company did it.....twice.  Got my manager and his wife on the same day years ago, and then two of my coworkers who'd just announced they were dating and moving in together, right before Christmas, two years ago.

Relationships at work can sometimes be a bad idea for survivability.  Probably managers figure that if they lay off one half of a couple, will that leave them with the second half of the couple becoming a disgruntled employee or security risk?

Banshee


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## Pour (Jun 24, 2011)

Sorry to hear about this turn of events. I'm confident you all will land on your feet, whether in games or elsewhere. I know this may sounds dumb, but from personal experience, allow this parting to free you into pursuing new and exciting directions in your life and not limit you.


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## Colmarr (Jun 24, 2011)

My sympathies to those involved. 

One of the weird bits about the D&D hobby is that it feels like those at the wheel are part of our family. I mourn accordingly.


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## wedgeski (Jun 24, 2011)

Good luck to those moving on! Thanks for everything you've done for our favourite hobby during your tenure at TSR/WotC, and I look forward to seeing you hired by certain other players in the gaming space real soon. 

I'm going to be slightly (possibly) controversial here and say that I don't understand the funereal cloud that overtakes these boards when someone is laid off at Wizards. Bill, especially, has been there a long time. He's done his bit (and done it well). WotC are reputedly very generous with their severance schemes. He's a talented guy with a wealth of experience and, I'm sure, many doors will open both for him and his fellows.


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## vagabundo (Jun 24, 2011)

All the best guys.

I've had a bad feeling the past few months something big - and bad - has been coming to DND. It's a very vague bad feeling though.


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## delericho (Jun 24, 2011)

Well, that sucks.

My best wishes to all those affected.


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## havard (Jun 24, 2011)

Thanks for what you have given the world of gaming so far Bill!

The best of luck to you and others in the same situation.

-Havard


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## mhensley (Jun 24, 2011)

Scott_Rouse said:


> Clear up a couple things I read that are not correct.
> 
> Hasbro fiscal is January - December.
> 
> This has nothing to do with an upcoming earnings call. Hasbro is a 4 billion dollar a year company with a market cap of 5.95 billion. Wall Street does not care about a layoff of a handful of employees.




That said, it would be very interesting to know whether or not the layoffs affected other divisions of wotc or just D&D.


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## qstor (Jun 24, 2011)

Scott_Rouse said:


> This has nothing to do with an upcoming earnings call. Hasbro is a 4 billion dollar a year company with a market cap of 5.95 billion. Wall Street does not care about a layoff of a handful of employees.




I'm sure it has SOMETHING to do with sales of D&D though.

Wish them the best and hope they find something soon.

Mike


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## Piratecat (Jun 24, 2011)

Sounds like a strategic realignment to me. I wish them nothing but the best; I have exceptional amount of respect for each one of them. With luck, they'll settle in a job they love even more.


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 24, 2011)

Scott_Rouse said:


> This has nothing to do with an upcoming earnings call. Hasbro is a 4 billion dollar a year company with a market cap of 5.95 billion. Wall Street does not care about a layoff of a handful of employees.



[MENTION=51773]Scott_Rouse[/MENTION]: Any guess as to why the layoffs, then? It's okay; we won't tell anyone else.

I hate to hear this stuff. I hope they all get good jobs soon and nobody goes hungry.


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## Dedekind (Jun 24, 2011)

So sorry to hear about the layoffs, but I hope some video game company will be gaining some talented people. 

I've never understood who actually makes these decisions. It certainly isn't Hasbro directly (no matter how often that gets repeated on Enworld).


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## Scott_Rouse (Jun 24, 2011)

TarionzCousin said:


> [MENTION=51773]Scott_Rouse[/MENTION]: Any guess as to why the layoffs, then? It's okay; we won't tell anyone else.
> 
> I hate to hear this stuff. I hope they all get good jobs soon and nobody goes hungry.




I don't have any insight and I don't want to guess, that just drives more speculation like "oh noes they're selling D&D" 

Having gone through this myself, I hope they're able to get through the wave of emotions they're likely to experience over the coming days & weeks. It's hard to walk away from something you put your heart and soul into.


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 24, 2011)

Scott_Rouse said:


> "oh noes they're selling D&D"



What?!?



But seriously, this news sucks. I've been laid off twice and it's no fun. Oh sure, you have lots of time to play games and sleep in, but finding cash to pay bills is stressful.

I think all of WotC's unemployed should form a film studio and make good sci-fi/fantasy movies. Who here wouldn't want to watch "White Plume Mountain," "Dead Gods," or the G-D-Q series? Even if they were cheap and/or animated they would be entertaining.


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## Dragonblade (Jun 24, 2011)

Honestly, while I hope Bill finds a new job soon, there is a lot about his direction of D&D and the products he has had a hand in that I despise.

Going all the way back to the 90's, when he did the Revised Dark Sun campaign box. I felt like he butchered the Dark Sun setting and watered down and neutered everything that was cool about the original setting.

Throughout the years, I have found that I disagree with his vision of D&D and stewardship of the brand. More recent examples, include the increasing move to all digitial subscription based content, and the online tools fiasco. The cancellation of paper Dragon and Dungeon, and to add insult to injury even the removal of compiled PDF articles. The ever progressing boardgame-ification of D&D, and so on to name just a few.

All of it has his fingerprints all over it. I just hope whoever takes the reins next can salvage the ruins of the game I grew up with.

And no Paizo fans, Pathfinder is not the answer to what ails me. 90% of everything I despised about 3e is still alive and well in Pathfinder. I play both Pathfinder and 4e and know the flaws of both systems intimately.


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## AbdulAlhazred (Jun 24, 2011)

Ah yes, too bad for Bill and crew, getting the axe can suck. OTOH in my experience it always leads to something good in the end. Life goes on. 

The positive side is new blood. Someone will be filling Bill's shoes. There's little doubt that will mean some reassessment of where the game is at. Perhaps there will be some positive developments out of that.


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## Zaran (Jun 24, 2011)

Maybe Bill's absence will pave the way for the Donkey to be introduced back into DnD!

Good Luck Bill!  I really hope you can find your way back into a Star Wars RPG!


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## IanB (Jun 24, 2011)

Would like to also give Shoe a thanks and a shout-out for his work on DDM, which was a pretty awesome competitive experience while it lasted (especially playing Limited) and an absolutely wonderful product for D&D use as well.


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## Incenjucar (Jun 24, 2011)

Best wishes to the wizards moving on to their epic destinies.


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## Osgood (Jun 24, 2011)

Dragonblade said:


> Throughout the years, I have found that I disagree with his vision of D&D and stewardship of the brand. More recent examples, include the increasing move to all digitial subscription based content, and the online tools fiasco. The cancellation of paper Dragon and Dungeon, and to add insult to injury even the removal of compiled PDF articles. The ever progressing boardgame-ification of D&D, and so on to name just a few.
> 
> All of it has his fingerprints all over it. I just hope whoever takes the reins next can salvage the ruins of the game I grew up with.




I hate to see anyone lose their job, especially these days, but I have to agree.  I have not cared for the direction D&D has taken during his tenure (but I still prefer it to Pathfinder).  I am certain many of these choices have originated from the  higher-ups, part of a leader's job is to push back in those situations.  

Hopefully whoever takes over will bring some new energy to the table and get things back on track.



Zaran said:


> Maybe Bill's absence will pave the way for the Donkey to be introduced back into DnD!




Was he the reason there is no donkey?  I have always wonder why I can buy a camel, but no donkey.  I approve the return of the donkey!


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## DaveMage (Jun 24, 2011)

Osgood said:


> Was he the reason there is no donkey?  I have always wonder why I can buy a camel, but no donkey.  I approve the return of the donkey!




I thought the issue was there was no mule (a.k.a donkeyhorse).


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## diaglo (Jun 24, 2011)

Scott_Rouse said:


> "oh noes they're selling D&D"




i'm gonna put this in my sig. Scott Rouse says "oh noes they're selling D&D".


thanks for getting my hopes up.

diaglo "would love to buy it" Ooi


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## Nemesis Destiny (Jun 25, 2011)

5 pages before the first shots in this skirmish of the Edition Wars. Better than expected, but not as good as I'd hoped. *sigh*


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## Plane Sailing (Jun 25, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> 5 pages before the first shots in this skirmish of the Edition Wars. Better than expected, but not as good as I'd hoped. *sigh*




A number of the most obvious warring posts (on either side) have been deleted from this thread.

Keep this thread for commiseration or related speculation. It isn't a place to defend your favoured version or attack your hated version.

Thanks


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## TerraDave (Jun 25, 2011)

MerricB said:


> I hope Bill, Michelle and Shoe manage to find new jobs soon. They've done some wonderful work over the years they've been with Wizards (and TSR, for Michelle and Bill).
> 
> I will be fascinated to see what happens to D&D now. Bill Slavicsek has been there for a long time now, and I think it's fair to say that the last few years (and especially the last one) have not been the best for D&D. Whoever takes over the job now has a massive task in front of them, and I hope it will be done well and in a manner that we appreciate.
> 
> Cheers!




well said, and more tactfully then I would have.


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## TerraDave (Jun 25, 2011)

He certainly joins good company...pretty much the who's who of the industry is people "let go" by WotC.

While the predictability of these layoffs is lamentable (though they through us off this time, waiting 6 months like that), occasional change, especially at the top, can be a good thing.


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## Gargoyle (Jun 25, 2011)

Bill is one of my favorite game designers of all time.  Torg, Alternity, and D&D 3rd and 4th editions are some of my favorite games.  

I hope for the very best for all the folks leaving WotC, and for the folks they leave behind.


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## dm4hire (Jun 25, 2011)

I wonder if Bill could be talked into Kickstarting a clone of Alternity?


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## Radiating Gnome (Jun 25, 2011)

Here's one more set of good wishes for everyone -- move on, find the next thing as quickly as you want and need to, and make the next step a step up. 

You're all responsible for a lot of something that enriches my life in a deep and important way, and I'm not alone. Thanks for all you've done, and I'll be looking forward to what's next.


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## Herschel (Jun 25, 2011)

catsclaw227 said:


> You can add my sympathies to those laid off. In my previous post, I had assumed he was the only one leaving.
> 
> Does anyone know the reasons behind the layoffs at this time of year? Are there some issues with the D&D property?




It's generally pretty simple: you don't have to provide benefits packages to freelancers (or outsource companies). Most companies are running as lean as possible and they'll cut heavy with potential to hire back rather than chance keeping "too many" on staff.


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## Jack99 (Jun 25, 2011)

"I have got a bad feeling about this"


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## Greyson (Jun 28, 2011)

*Agreed*



Dragonblade said:


> Honestly, while I hope Bill finds a new job soon, there is a lot about his direction of D&D and the products he has had a hand in that I despise.
> 
> Going all the way back to the 90's, when he did the Revised Dark Sun campaign box. I felt like he butchered the Dark Sun setting and watered down and neutered everything that was cool about the original setting.
> 
> ...



Agreed. It is regrettable for anyone to lose their job, and I lament that it happens. But, maybe this product is long over due for a change at this level.


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 29, 2011)

Jack99 said:


> "I have got a bad feeling about this"




"Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an unemployment line is approximately 3,720 to 1."


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jun 29, 2011)

TarionzCousin said:


> "Sir, the possibility of successfully navigating an unemployment line is approximately 3,720 to 1."




"Never tell me the odds!"


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## MarauderX (Jun 29, 2011)

I had always wondered about the blind following of his balance numbers after talking with others of the WotC staff, but he still did very well coordinating and getting everyone on the same page.

We'll be seeing his work again, hopefully soon!


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## I'm A Banana (Jun 29, 2011)

> "Never tell me the odds!"




Be careful with your temp jobs, there might be Mynocs infesting it (and also it might be alive).


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