# What is real BBQ?



## Vraille Darkfang (May 24, 2005)

The alternate title for this thread was: "Hey non-Americans, wanna see a fight?"

But, since the Steak Thread and the Coming to America Thread already movings towards this....

What do you think is the one, true way BBQ should be done?

(You can post your secret recipies too if you want)  Which is sort of like saying "May I sleep with your wife?", only most Pit Masters would agree to that one if enough cash is flashed.


I'm a Texas Brisket & Southern Pulled Pork guy myself.

Oh, Yeah. Sauce SHOULD NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be put on the meat while its cooking!!!!  Sauce ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS comes on the side.

Now, lets here about all those mouth-watering ribs, steaks, brisket, pork, etc...

Or, may the bit***** about the ONE TRUE WAY to cook REAL BBQ begin.


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## diaglo (May 24, 2005)

homemade sauce... but should be vinegar based.


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## Crothian (May 24, 2005)

The great thing about BBQ, is there are manty great and different ways.  Wet and dry, I like them both so I say there is no one true way.  I take comfort in the variety.


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## Desdichado (May 24, 2005)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> I'm a Texas Brisket & Southern Pulled Pork guy myself.



Me too.  Although, that's not surprising as a Texan.

I'm not sure what a "vinegar" based sauce is.  Ketchup is arguably a vinegar-based sauce.  And no American sauce I've seen is as vinegar-based as the _chimichurri_ I had in Argentina.

Now there's an unexplored BBQ tradition, right there.


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## diaglo (May 24, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what a "vinegar" based sauce is.




if you have to ask then you've never had real BBQ


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (May 24, 2005)

Eastern North Carolina pulled pork with vinegar based sauce (NO KETCHUP IN THE SAUCE!). Sides of coleslaw, green beans, & hushpuppies. 

My wife should be proud, turning this one time Yankee into a Carolina BBQ man.


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## werk (May 24, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> if you have to ask then you've never had real BBQ




Word.  Coopers pit BBQ in Llano (?) TX.
You tell them what meat you want and how much.  If you want, they'll dip the meat in this bucket of 'bbq sauce' which looks like red vinegar with spices suspended in it.

I used to not care about bbq at all, then I lived in Austin TX for 5 years.  When you are running home with your buddy at lunch so he can check his smoker, you know it's serious.

Ruby's is good too, but has a regular bbq sauce, it is excellent.

I don't BBQ myself, but can grill a nice steak.


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## EricNoah (May 24, 2005)

The McRib from McDonalds is the one true BBQ.  All the rest are pale, spongy immitations.


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2005)

Wars have been started over less trivial things.

The only true barbecue comes from Kansas City. The rest is a mockery of real barbecue.

And this crap they serve in Virginia is a joke.


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## Henry (May 24, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> The McRib from McDonalds is the one true BBQ.  All the rest are pale, spongy immitations.




While enjoyable on its own, it is IMO..... Limited. 

I had some "Ole Time BBQ" (That's the name of the place) from Raleigh NC recently, and that's probably the best BBQ I've tasted in a long time.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (May 24, 2005)

Well - having spent most of my life in South Dakota, I haven't really *experienced* BBQ outside of my mum's ground beef with ketchup and mustard (a bit on the gross side, I know.  But, we were poor!)... and that's really a "Sloppy Joe" and not BBQ.


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## jester47 (May 24, 2005)

Every Culture has a way of grilling meat.  For example:  Teriyaki = Japanese BBQ. 

Like a True Texan, I will take it any way I can get it.  Just grill me some meat.  But the best I have had is in Clark's Outpost in Tioga TX.  Might want to check out Llano for that other listing though.  Next time I am out in that area.


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## diaglo (May 24, 2005)

jester47 said:
			
		

> Like a True Texan, I will take it any way I can get it.





gives me a whole new way at looking at your posts now.

IYKWIMAITYD

diaglo "getting less of it with my wife in Savanah for work" Ooi


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## scrubkai (May 24, 2005)

Vraille you are a brave brave man to even bring this up..

I've got some of my wife's extended family down south that nearly tossed my brother-in-law in a lake just for saying that he liked beef BBQ better the pork.

However as a Yank from Chicago, I'm much less militant about this.  (Pizza and Hot Dogs on the other hand are a different story.  Don't even start me on the pathetic nastiness New Yorker's call pizza.)
I'm sure I'm going to be in the minory here, but I tend like pork ribs better then most any BBQ beef, and my sauce heavy and sweet.   Sure I've had some very good dry BBQ but to me if it isn't wet, it's not really BBQ.


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## EricNoah (May 24, 2005)

In all seriousness, they all sound good and I'd love to try a couple of distinctly different varieties side by side.


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## WayneLigon (May 24, 2005)

Al Roker had a great show on the Food Network where they went to all sorts of different BBQ places. There was this one guy who invented his own custom-made cooker and used a dry rub that would effectively melt into the meat as it cooked. That sounded very yummy. 

Here we generally get pulled-pork or ribs with a choice of mild/medium/hot sauces based on tomato or mustard. There is a great place called 'Dreamland' in Tuscaloosa where the _only _ question you get asked is 'half-rack or full-rack?'; they only serve sweet tea, and there are no side dishes at all besides some bread they bring to the table. The branch here in Montgomery has a few sides, as well as more drink choices.


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## Jdvn1 (May 24, 2005)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> I'm a Texas Brisket & Southern Pulled Pork guy myself.
> 
> Oh, Yeah. Sauce SHOULD NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER be put on the meat while its cooking!!!!  Sauce ALWAYS, ALWAYS, ALWAYS comes on the side.



I agree with you, being a Texas guy myself, but trying North Carolina barbecue, they make a good argument for good barbecue.

So I go for a mix.  Slow cooked pork (just _falls_ apart... mmm), with some homemade vinegar-mustard-honey sauce.


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## Hellefire (May 24, 2005)

Bah. Fresh bear and moose, with some salmon and halibut on the side, is the only TRUE BBQ.


Aaron


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## Shemeska (May 24, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> I agree with you, being a Texas guy myself, but trying North Carolina barbecue, they make a good argument for good barbecue.
> 
> So I go for a mix.  Slow cooked pork (just _falls_ apart... mmm), with some homemade vinegar-mustard-honey sauce.




I'm a yankee transplant to NC and it took a decade down here before I actually tried BBQ. Having come from up north I was always familiar with 'BBQ' being steaks or such cooked on a charcoal grill outside and maybe with some 'bbq' sauce put over the top of it later.

The stories of my youth were lies I tell you! I'm a zealous convert to the true BBQ that is pulled pork vinegar base BBQ. Everything else may be good in its own right but it's something else trying to call itself BBQ. Except for that mustard based abomination in South Carolina that deserves to be stricken from the face of the planet. 

And yes, vinegar based sauce looks like red colored, silty vinegar with (ideally) peppercorns and spices floating around in it.

Now, that said, one of my friends in my Saturday gaming group that I'm a player in, he's from Texas and every so often he'll make 'Texas style BBQ' beef brisket. Damn is it good, but it's not BBQ, it's 'Texas Style BBQ'. So while it's good, it gets that disclaimer added to its name as a qualifier


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## EricNoah (May 24, 2005)

Hellefire said:
			
		

> Bah. Fresh bear and moose, with some salmon and halibut on the side, is the only TRUE BBQ.




I think I'll join you ... but then I'll do anything once, just for the halibut.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (May 24, 2005)

scrubkai said:
			
		

> However as a Yank from Chicago, I'm much less militant about this.  (Pizza and Hot Dogs on the other hand are a different story.  Don't even start me on the pathetic nastiness New Yorker's call pizza.)




Just to sidetrack for a minute...
Chicago pizza isn't even pizza. It's a cassarole that happens to have cheese and tomato sauce in/on it.


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## Umbran (May 24, 2005)

jester47 said:
			
		

> Every Culture has a way of grilling meat.  For example:  Teriyaki = Japanese BBQ.




Except that, both in origins and in modern application, BBQ is very different from grilling.  Grilling is basically broiling - high heat applied for short periods of time.  BBQ is done with low heat, slow cooking.

Unless, of course, you like your BBQ to have a texture similar to that of a radial tire.  

I think that folks who limit themselves to "one true way" of barbecue are sad lost souls, bereft of variety in their lives.   The lack of culinary stimulation makes them irritable, which is why these discussions get so heated.


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## scrubkai (May 24, 2005)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> Just to sidetrack for a minute...
> Chicago pizza isn't even pizza. It's a cassarole that happens to have cheese and tomato sauce in/on it.




That's where you are wrong my friend...  
Per Dictionary.com The definition of Pizza is: "A baked pie of Italian origin consisting of a shallow breadlike crust covered with seasoned tomato sauce, cheese, and often other toppings, such as sausage or olives"

Notice the word pie.  When is the last time you saw a pie that was 1/4 an inch thick?

As such anything that can be folded to be eaten does not qualify as Pie and shouldn't be considered Pizza.

No Chicago Pizza is just the return of pizza to it's roots after the corruption of the pizza pie by the early New Yorkers...   

But enough about Pizza, this thread is all about BBQ.


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## Hypersmurf (May 25, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> I think I'll join you ... but then I'll do anything once, just for the halibut.




Hey, is this the plaice for that?  I'll have to mullet over, but the things I'm herring are a bit too hoki for my tastes.

I'd hate to see the thread flounder if people mackerel big deal out of it, y'know?  But I guess w-eel see if it stays bass-ically on track.

(Sorry to carp on - that sort of post is almost gar-nteed to get my attention...)

-Hyp.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (May 25, 2005)

Umbran said:
			
		

> I think that folks who limit themselves to "one true way" of barbecue are sad lost souls, bereft of variety in their lives.   The lack of culinary stimulation makes them irritable, which is why these discussions get so heated.




Oh, I'll eat those things that others call BBQ, and enjoy them quite a bit. I usually order it whenever I am in a different area and can have some. But they shouldn't deceive themselves into thinking it's BBQ that they are eating.


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## Prince of Happiness (May 25, 2005)

What is real BBQ?

Korean.

But I'm also partial to Southern pulled pork, particularly Little Dooey's in Columbus, MS.


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## Jdvn1 (May 25, 2005)

Shemeska said:
			
		

> Now, that said, one of my friends in my Saturday gaming group that I'm a player in, he's from Texas and every so often he'll make 'Texas style BBQ' beef brisket. Damn is it good, but it's not BBQ, it's 'Texas Style BBQ'. So while it's good, it gets that disclaimer added to its name as a qualifier



As far as I'm concerned, since the cows come from Texas, Texas is the standard.  NC merely has a dialect.


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## EricNoah (May 25, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> (Sorry to carp on - that sort of post is almost gar-nteed to get my attention...)




Not at all -- I'm just reel-y happy that someone took the bait and caught onto my shrimpy little pun.


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## GrayIguana (May 25, 2005)

I'm salivating as I read this.  I love BBQ.  I love grilling.  In fact I've just come in from the yard after grilling some steak ka-bobs with a spicy chipotle sause.  Now I'm getting hungry again.


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## Klaus (May 25, 2005)

Only real BBQ = Gaucho style (southern Brazil, Argentinian and Uruguayan)

Meat needs no seasoning other than seasalt (the big chunky rocks, not the refined thing). BBQ needs no sauce on it.

No BBQ would be complete without BBQed sausages and chicken wings.

As for side dishes: white rice, fries, "farofa" (manioc flour slightly roasted on a frying pan with some garlic) onion rings, and slices of bread (garlic bread would do) to be had with "Campaign"-style mix: olive oil + vinegar + tiny cubes of tomato, onion and green pepper.

You can sample some nice Brazilian barbeque right there in the US, in Dallas, Atlanta, Chicago, Houston and Beverly Hills: http://www.fogodechao.com/locations.htm

Hmmm.... churrasco...


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## Angel Tarragon (May 25, 2005)

My dads homegrilled ribs! Mmmmmmm.....yum!


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## Wereserpent (May 25, 2005)

I had some grilled chicken for dinner earlier, I am not sure if that counts as BBQ though.


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## arwink (May 25, 2005)

Cajun Spiced Kangaroo Steaks, lamb sausages and beer.

The only mandatory part is the beer.


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## Hand of Evil (May 25, 2005)

South Carolina and that means mustard based!  But the BBQ is only as good as the wood you use, the sause has to grab and hold the wood smoke enhancing the bite and flavor.


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## diaglo (May 25, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Not at all -- I'm just reel-y happy that someone took the bait and caught onto my shrimpy little pun.





i'm throwing this post on the Barbie.


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## DarrenGMiller (May 25, 2005)

My number one favorite is NC-style pulled pork barbeque with vinegar based sauce.  It has to have pork & beans on the side, along with rice and hush puppies.  I once drove from Charleston, SC (actually Moncks Corner) to Spencer, NC along the backroads for a weekend getaway with my wife.  We had barbeque for every meal except breakfast for the entire weekend.  The rules were simple: the sauce had to be vinegar based and it couldn't be a chain resaurant.  We stopped at some ramshackle places in towns that were a wide spot in the road.  That was some of the best I have ever had.  It was a great weekend.

One of my colleagues is from Scotland County, NC and he makes some mean barbeque every time the band directors of our county get together.  Wow, it is good!

My second favorite is dry ribs from Sticky Fingers.

DM


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## James Heard (May 25, 2005)

I'm partial to mustard sauces and this mexican barbecued steak they cook at the restaurant near my house. I can and will do other barbecue, but basically I'm just tired of rubs and red sauces most of the time. I've been getting into simply slow smoking pork roasts with nothing else on them lately though. I'm not sure if I'd really call them barbecue, but there's something really special about cooking meat for 4 hours over low heat and smoke that's pretty awesome.

I'd like to go ahead an apologize ahead of time though, to anyone who's had the misfortune of having hotdogs covered in barbecue sauce for any reason. That's just wrong.


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## John Q. Mayhem (May 25, 2005)

Barbeque takes many forms...I just had a nice BBQ sandwich made with teriyaki sauce and Tabasco. A bit sweet, but it was quite tasty.


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## the Jester (May 25, 2005)

Ahh, this thread reminds me of my discovery of the Great BBQ Debate while traveling the country. 

It was when I was with AlSih2o that I discovered the passions we Americans feel about BBQ- whatever it really is.  Wet, dry, pork, beef- all I know for sure is that it's MEAT.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (May 25, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> As far as I'm concerned, since the cows come from Texas, Texas is the standard.  NC merely has a dialect.




well, since real BBQ is PORK, not beef, I could care less where the cows come from, or where they go.


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## Desdichado (May 25, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> if you have to ask then you've never had real BBQ



If you have to ask, you've _only_ had real BBQ.  To me, there's just BBQ sauce.  There's no talk of variants based on this or that ingredient.  

And of course, there's the stuff that they _call_ BBQ sauce that you can buy in stores.  But let's not get into that...


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## Desdichado (May 25, 2005)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> well, since real BBQ is PORK, not beef, I could care less where the cows come from, or where they go.



Bah.  Real BBQ is _only_ from cows.


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## fusangite (May 25, 2005)

Real barbecue is Cantonese barbecue. The food that lured me away from vegetarianism was a Cantonese barbecue duck that I saw in a display windown and just had to have.


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## Jdvn1 (May 25, 2005)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> well, since real BBQ is PORK, not beef, I could care less where the cows come from, or where they go.



Barbecue is whatever meat you want.  The meatier the better.


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## D-rock (May 26, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Barbecue is whatever meat you want.  The meatier the better.




You mean that my plan of stuffing quail inside a chicken then stuffing a chichken inside a turkey, then stuffing the turkey inside a pig and then stuffing the pig inside a cow is ok after all.  Wheeew, and here I thought I was going to far.


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## Goblyn (May 26, 2005)

I tend to think that *real* BBQ is whatever the biggest, meanest, rough-ass SOB in the joint _says_ is BBQ. And you're gonna _like_ it.


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## Jdvn1 (May 26, 2005)

D-rock said:
			
		

> You mean that my plan of stuffing quail inside a chicken then stuffing a chichken inside a turkey, then stuffing the turkey inside a pig and then stuffing the pig inside a cow is ok after all.  Wheeew, and here I thought I was going to far.



I thought you typically start with a duck.  At least, for a turducken you do.  You wanna make a cowpigturducken?  I'm not sure that's as much barbecue as it is just _confused_.


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## MrFilthyIke (May 30, 2005)

Hellefire said:
			
		

> Bah. Fresh bear and moose, with some salmon and halibut on the side, is the only TRUE BBQ.




Sooo...you're looking for Moose and Squirrel?


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## Elf Witch (May 30, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> South Carolina and that means mustard based!  But the BBQ is only as good as the wood you use, the sause has to grab and hold the wood smoke enhancing the bite and flavor.




That is the best in the world.   Every fouth of July my aunt would go buy a lot and freeze it and then ship it down here in Florida to my family. Nobody has heard of it down here.

My aunt has since passed away and I haven't had any in a few years and I do miss it. 

I like all BBQ my least favorite is North Carolina vingear based but that does not mean I don't like it. Just on a rating it would be at the bottom.


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## Elf Witch (May 30, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Bah.  Real BBQ is _only_ from cows.




Only if you have run out of pork!


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## MrFilthyIke (May 30, 2005)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> Only if you have run out of pork!




Bah, when i comes to BBQ all I care about is comsuming meat.
Glorious, bloody, fleshy meat!  I will comsume you all!!!!!!!!!...
uh, where am I?  You am I?


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## Darrin Drader (May 30, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> The McRib from McDonalds is the one true BBQ. All the rest are pale, spongy immitations.




Troll! Why do we tolerate this guy around here anyway? It's incomprehensible!  

The best BBQ I've had is at Hua's Mongolian BBQ in Walla Walla, WA.

But if we're talking about American BBQ, I like it wet, and I like it hot. I like the BBQ sauce so hot that it makes ordinary people's faces melt. OK, that may be exaggerating just a bit, but I can't find a BBQ sauce on the store shelves that is hot enough. There's a place in Renton, WA that does an excellent job with their sauce.


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## Shemeska (May 31, 2005)

*Face melting is for wussies.*



			
				Whisperfoot said:
			
		

> I like the BBQ sauce so hot that it makes ordinary people's faces melt. OK, that may be exaggerating just a bit, but I can't find a BBQ sauce on the store shelves that is hot enough. There's a place in Renton, WA that does an excellent job with their sauce.




You'd fit in well with my group then. On a lark we got into a hot sauce contest and myself and one of my players A) lost our sense of taste for a week, B) were high for around a half hour on the endorphine rush, C) were in horrific pain the next day, and D) consumed half a bottle of stuff that we only later noticed had a disclaimer warning against direct human consumption.

And back on topic I just bought some fairly decent premade pulled pork BBQ here at a local foodstore that is probably some of the best stuff I've had outside of a true BBQ restaurant or somebody's backyard BBQ pit.


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## Quasqueton (May 31, 2005)

I think this thread is the only time I have ever agreed with anything diaglo said.

Quasqueton


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## Desdichado (May 31, 2005)

Whisperfoot said:
			
		

> I like the BBQ sauce so hot that it makes ordinary people's faces melt. OK, that may be exaggerating just a bit, but I can't find a BBQ sauce on the store shelves that is hot enough. There's a place in Renton, WA that does an excellent job with their sauce.



Indeed.  I went to a place this last weekend that had what they called "Nasty" BBQ sauce, with habanero flavor.  It wasn't really hot at all, though, and it was really sweet, which is a cardinal sin in association with meat of any kind.

Totally wussy.  Even my 9-year old son wasn't impressed.  He's become a bit of a hot sauce sophisticate in the last year or two, though.  Makes an old man proud.


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## Henry (May 31, 2005)

Goblyn said:
			
		

> I tend to think that *real* BBQ is whatever the biggest, meanest, rough-ass SOB in the joint _says_ is BBQ. And you're gonna _like_ it.




Ah, so you'll be having some vinegar-based pulled pork, then?


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## Quasqueton (May 31, 2005)

Why no love for chopped pork? Chopping it makes it easier to get sauce mixed in real good.

Quasqueton


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## Vraille Darkfang (May 31, 2005)

Quasqueton said:
			
		

> Why no love for chopped pork? Chopping it makes it easier to get sauce mixed in real good.
> 
> Quasqueton




If you have to use a knife, it ain't cooked right.

Trully great BBQ falls apart at the mere sight of a fork.


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## Elf Witch (May 31, 2005)

This thread made me hungry for good ole South Carolina BBQ. So I spent yesterday at the bookstore going through cookbooks. I found some amazing recipes for some sauces I can't wait to try including my mustardy South Carolina style. 

I came across a style I had never heard of called Alabama white BBQ. It is made with a mayonaise base sauce and is mainly used on chicken. I made some last night and it was incredible. It was spicy and cool at the same time. 

Has anyone else ever had it?

I hoping in the next weeks to get a nice pork shoulder and put in my smoker and make some pulled pork. I am going to make some of my Carolina sauce as well as both kinds of North Carolina sauces and have a little taste off of my own.


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## Henry (May 31, 2005)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> I came across a style I had never heard of called Alabama white BBQ. It is made with a mayonaise base sauce and is mainly used on chicken. I made some last night and it was incredible. It was spicy and cool at the same time.




Whoa!

I'm ready for the heart attack -- Don't suppose I could entice you to either type up the recipe or the name of the book you got it from?


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## Elf Witch (Jun 1, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> Whoa!
> 
> I'm ready for the heart attack -- Don't suppose I could entice you to either type up the recipe or the name of the book you got it from?




Here is the recipe. 1 cup mayonaise, 3/4 cup vinegar,  1 tablespoon l mon juice, 1 tablespoon black pepper, 1 teaspoon sugar, 1 teaspoon prepared horseradish, 1 teaspoon salt.

Combine and stick in fridge for at least an hour keeps one month. You grill your chicken as soon as it is done dip into sauce and place on a plate. Use the rest of the sauce for dipping. 

I don't remember which book I got this recipce from but out of all the boooks I looked I recommend these.   

DR BBQ's Big-Time Barbeque Cookbook by Ray Laupe.  The author competes in cook offs and the book is full of recipes that have won. 

Mastering Barbeque by Micheal H Stines this book is full of regional recipes and good advice on what wood is good to smoke what meat. 

The Barbeque Bible by Steven Raichlen This book has recipes from all over the world.


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## Ranger REG (Jun 1, 2005)

What's real BBQ? Any meat soaked in *shoyu-*based marinade before cooking.


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## Henry (Jun 1, 2005)

Elf Witch said:
			
		

> Here is the recipe.




My thanks, for both the recipe and the book list!


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## Elf Witch (Jun 2, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> My thanks, for both the recipe and the book list!




You are very welcome.


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## MrFilthyIke (Jun 2, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> What's real BBQ? Any meat soaked in *shoyu-*based marinade before cooking.




REG, always different for the sake of being different.


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## ragboy (Jun 2, 2005)

Another Texan, but I've lost my prejudice for Tomato-based BBQ. My preference is: 

- Brisket, marinated for about 15 minutes and then slow cooked over CHARCOAL and damp mesquite chips until the meat simply melts in your mouth. I also use a home-grown brisket rub. If it's brisket, then it has to be tomato-based sauce, with just enough spice to warrant two beers per plate. - Always drink Shiner beer with Brisket. 

- Pork - Again marinated about 15 minutes in a vinegar-based marinade. Always cooked on charcoal and usually pecan or some other flavorful wood chips...can't remember what I used last. I'm totally down with the vinegar-based sauce. (My Virginia wife converted me...) - Always drink a light beer with Pork. I'm not much on American beers, but something like Fosters goes down right with Virginia/NC Pork. 

- Chicken - I marinate and baste chicken in tomato-based sauce. The only kind of meat that I have to have sauce on while it cooks. I usually do BBQ chicken "Mexican Style." So there's chili powder, onions, jalapenos (fresh, not pickled), and other grilled vegetables. And CORN tortillas, thank you. I don't care for doughy flour tortillas. Always drink a Mexican beer with BBQ chicken. I don't care for Corona, but Dos Equis is a good one... 

-Sausage... always extremely spicy. Can't stand bland sausage. Always have fresh bread, saurkraut, and spicy German mustard. Always drink a German bier with sausage. If I can swing it, fresh Pils from one of the breweries in New Braunfels. 

My main BBQ rules are: 

- No sauce on the meat while it cooks. (other than chicken)
- Slow slow slow cook/smoked. 
- Gotta have spice. 
- No sweet sauces (I don't care for KC BBQ). 
- Always use wood or coal with wood chips. If you want to cook with gas, use your stove... 
- Always have beer. (And absolutely no beer marinades, other than for the chef).


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## Desdichado (Jun 3, 2005)

ragboy, you are my new hero.

You're also making me homesick.


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## Ranger REG (Jun 3, 2005)

MrFilthyIke said:
			
		

> REG, always different for the sake of being different.



Well, you know me. Hawaii first, USA second.


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## loki44 (Jun 4, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> My main BBQ rules are:
> - No sauce on the meat while it cooks. (other than chicken)
> - Slow slow slow cook/smoked.
> - Gotta have spice.
> ...





I ain't a Texan, I'm just a Yankee in the New South, so what do I know?  What I THINK I know is that ragboy is da Man!  Your rules should be canon.  I couldn't have laid it out better myself.  Slow, spicy and no sauce til the end.  Bon apetit!


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## jesseghfan (Jun 4, 2005)

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> Eastern North Carolina pulled pork with vinegar based sauce (NO KETCHUP IN THE SAUCE!).




Not really sure why anything else need be written in this thread.  That is about all there is to it.


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## Templetroll (Jun 6, 2005)

From my wife's side of it

www.moonlite.com in KY

BBQ Mutton.  Yeah, sheep.  tastes great; go to a church picnic in Kentucky and try some.

Burgoo  great soup with mutton, veggies and dead chickens.  Not much better than that.

in our neighborhood in NC, mall at 54 and Cary Parkway, there is a John's BBQ that has wet and dry BBQ and lets you put the sauce on; three or four different things on the table for you to try.  Nice fried catfish sandwich, too.

in the same shopping center is Dakota Grill.  Bison burgers, I think elk and some mundane things I've never tried.  Apparently bison is healthier burger due to low fat; it tastes good but I wouldn't make a habit of it.


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## Templetroll (Jun 6, 2005)

Shemeska said:
			
		

> And back on topic I just bought some fairly decent premade pulled pork BBQ here at a local foodstore that is probably some of the best stuff I've had outside of a true BBQ restaurant or somebody's backyard BBQ pit.




What premade?  If need be include the name of the store also!  I don't think we have a problem with product placement here!


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## ledded (Jul 5, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> My main BBQ rules are:
> 
> - No sauce on the meat while it cooks. (other than chicken)
> - Slow slow slow cook/smoked.
> ...




Amen, my brother, amen.  I agree with almost all of your points.  You, sir, are invited to any bar-b-que I have.

Here in Alabama there is the local bbq, mostly pork and chicken with spicy tomato based sauces, but I have a few personal preferences.

St Louis Ribs, homemade spice rub, with just a little light spray every now and then with a water/salt/vinegar/lemon juice solution to help 'em stay nice and moist *if needed* (if you do it right, you wont need it).  Drop them on a moderately hot fire to sear the outside very briefly, then *slow* cook on a very smokey enclosed fire.  The best way is to use one of those two-chamber smokers, you can start the fire and sear 'em on the lower firebox, then drop on a bunch of water-soaked hickory or mesquite, get it smokey, and hang 'em in the smoke box.

Chicken, do NOT remove the skin, and brine 'em the night before or the morning of with a water/lime juice/lemon juice/salt/sugar/garlic/whatever concoction.  Take 'em out of the brine, rub 'em down with a spicy rub, then drop 'em on a fairly hot charcoal and wood grill fire and cook those bad boys.  Spray 'em lightly every now and then if you're using cut-up chickens or breasts, but if using the whole chickens, you take a 3/4 full can of beer and stuff it in the cavity top-up and let it ride (Pierce calls it Beer-Butt chicken, and it's damn good).

Boston Butts, pork shoulder, or a good thick brisket or  london broils (pretty much any really big roast-sized pork/beef):  Inject with a garlic-based marinade, give 'em some spice rub, and toss them in the smoker for an hour per pound slooooow cook.  Make sure to have a water pan in the smoker to give moisture to the smoke... keeps 'em moist and helps the smoke flavor penetrate all the way through.

Sausage.  Mmmm... start with good SPICY sausage, preferrably hot Italian, Brats, Andouille, Keilbasa, or Boudin (bland sausage is a waste of time and meat, two things I dont tolerate), and cook over a wood and charcoal fire.  Smoke 'em if you got the time.  'Nuff said.

Now sometimes I'll smoke a chicken or turkey as I would the pork butts/shoulder, or some other kind of nice sounding method just for a nice variety.  Another thing I like to keep in mind is at the end of a big smoke-out with the big pork/beef I'll throw some fish (there's nothing like smoking to bring out the best flavors in fish) or chicken breasts on the smoker with a nice spicy-citrus or butter-dill glaze, because I hate to waste a good fire .  I find that if I toss on a couple pieces of dry quick-burning wood on that slow fire (when you're done with the big stuff) and heat it up, I can get a few extra things cooked in the ensuing hot smokey fire that dont take as long (15-20 minutes tops), and the entire fire burns itself out a lot quicker (meaning I don't have to worry about keeping an eye on it as long after I'm finished, which is good with kids and a dog).

Ones I havent done but have been to and like:

One southern tradition that I've grown to love, but have never actually done myself, is the deep-fried turkey.  Yeah, it sounds weird, but you inject and spice rub a whole turkey, then the entire thing is dropped in a big boiler of peanut oil sitting on an outside cooker.  It will literally change the way you think about turkey for the rest of your life.

A Cantonese or Thai bar-b-que is exciting, spicy as all hell, and fun also.  When I was young I thought bar-b-que was a southern thing, but have learned that folks from all over the globe know their stuff also, and theirs may be different but can be just as good.  I've even had jerk goat from a street vendor in Jamaica, spicy-as-hell rubbed meat cooked over a fire made of the wood from the tree that Allspice comes from, which is a GREAT flavoring agent.  Even had the whole-pig-rubbed-in-salt, wrapped in palm fronds and dropped in a hot fire pit

But, as long as there is wood burning, meat on a grill/spit/freakin' flat rock over or in it, and beer, it's Bar-B-Que, and I'm all up for it.  I once cooked bacon and eggs on a grill when I was drunk in college when the power was out, liked it, and lived to tell the tale 

As far as sauces go, I like most of 'em but prefer the tangy/spicy to sweet.  And if it's a sweet sauce, it better be spicy as hell also, or it's not gonna go on my bar-b-que.  However, most of the time I cook I put out good sauces for those that prefer 'em, but I cook with the notion that if you *have* to have sauce with the meat, then you didnt cook the damn meat right .  That being said, I mostly go for sauce on a pulled-meat sandwich, but on ribs, chicken, and beef, I prefer to let the rub and the smoke stand for itself.

Note:

BTW, I've had that new-fangled white sauce here in Alabama, which has become popular in the last 10-15 years.  That recipe posted above sounds about right for it, though the ones I like are a good bit spicier.  It is very good on chicken, and makes a nice dressing for those low-carb folks that insist on putting that pulled pork in a salad and eating it.  You will find it in quite a few places in Alabama these days, and it's worth a try.


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## BiggusGeekus (Jul 5, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> And this crap they serve in Virginia is a joke.




Red, Hot, & Blue
Richmond 
9503-C W. Broad St. 
Richmond, VA 23294 


Non-crappy Virginia BBQ.

Oh, and I like my ribs dry.  Dry, dry, dry.  You sauce boys have been drinking too much vinegar.


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## ragboy (Jul 6, 2005)

ledded said:
			
		

> Amen, my brother, amen. I agree with almost all of your points. You, sir, are invited to any bar-b-que I have.




Lemme know when!


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## ledded (Jul 12, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Indeed. I went to a place this last weekend that had what they called "Nasty" BBQ sauce, with habanero flavor. It wasn't really hot at all, though, and it was really sweet, which is a cardinal sin in association with meat of any kind.
> 
> Totally wussy. Even my 9-year old son wasn't impressed. He's become a bit of a hot sauce sophisticate in the last year or two, though. Makes an old man proud.




Heh. This reminds me of when I was cooking at my in-laws house a little while back. I was making salsa to go along with some South of the Border Bar-b-que I was doing for them, and my mother-in-law was talking about how hot my salsa was when she tasted it. I told her that we didnt think it was that hot, and she asked if I thought the kids could stomach something like that. She turned to look at my 7 year old son, and he was fishing jalapeno peppers out of the jar with 2 fingers and stuffing them into his mouth. He would suck air into his mouth, smile, and keep eating 'em. She looked at me all google eyed and said "My GOD Jim, you LET him do that?!?". 

I just looked at her and said "let him? Hell I just about can't stop hijm. He better cut it out before we run out."

He piped up at that point and said "anyway nana, it's ok, these are _pickled_ peppers"

It definitely made the old man proud.


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## Gentlegamer (Jul 12, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> Another Texan, but I've lost my prejudice for Tomato-based BBQ. My preference is:
> 
> - Brisket, marinated for about 15 minutes and then slow cooked over CHARCOAL and damp mesquite chips until the meat simply melts in your mouth. I also use a home-grown brisket rub. If it's brisket, then it has to be tomato-based sauce, with just enough spice to warrant two beers per plate. - Always drink Shiner beer with Brisket.
> 
> ...



So, ragboy, when's your next cookout? 

Gentlegamer "needin' to get outta Houston soon"


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## Thunderfoot (Jul 12, 2005)

My first post and I wwalk in to a TROLL - what a rube...

Now for all that have posted I appreciate your candor and spirit.  Of course southerners and northerners both think they have the best of this and that and we that originally hale from those places in the heartland just smile and nod our heads sympathetically - basically because y'all are a bunch of blow hards.  

As for real BBQ - let's go to school shall we - 
First the dry stuff - Ok, I'll give the Texans credit where its due - Beef brisket, dry rubbed in a vinegar marinade is quite tasty - but once it's been smoked - get rid of that nasty sweet, smokey Texan sauce - it's like putting sugar in corn bread -  

As for the Carolinians, dry smoked pork is quite tasty. It should be sliced, not pulled or shredded and hung for at least 4 hours in the smokehouse before cooking - but mustard based suaces are best left to chicken.  Smother in somethin' rich and sassy - tomatoe based but cayanne kissed.  

Now for the wet stuff -
Ribs are better wet - end of story - Wet St. Louis style ribs win hands down - If you don't have to wear a bib and gloves to stay clean, you either have bad ribs or you aren't tryin' hard enough.  It ain't good unless you get some on ya'!  Sauce should be smokey and sweet but have a fire as well - not hot for hot's sake, but tasty enough you should be tastin' it all night.

Wet pulled pork is alright, but I prefer wet chicken - drag out that Carolina mustard and drown that poultry!  Fire up your grill and cook til' it sizzles! Oh-boy, we cookin' now.  

Fixins - BBQ ain't BBQ without extras
First off Corn on the cob - now with all due respects to the other parts of the country - If it doesn't come from Illinois, Missouri or Iowa (and maybe a few places in So. Indiana) YOUR CORN SUCKS!!!  Have it trucked in and taste the sweetest, largest, most tender stuff from God's green earth.  Boil it in buttered water or roast it over an open flame; it will set off the 
firey BBQ with a smooth, buttery taste.

Beans - no offense to Boston (they rock) but they don't quite go with BBQ, go with a Mississippi, shredded pork added baked bean, maybe with some peppers or onions added in for taste - add the hottest roasted tomatoe style sauce you can find - live in Nirvana

Coleslaw - I can't stand it, but a Southern style, low milk (ie - dry style) works best with BBQ.  However, wet style will work with chicken, ala KFC (I still haven't figured out why)

Potatoes - Mashed or smashed (not whipped) with butter and a touch of roasted garlic (enhances the fire from the BBQ sauce).  Potato salad works, but cools the suace flavor instead of enhances.  If that's what you want - go for it.

Green beans or 3-bean salad - I like it, a much better cooling food than potato salad in my book and has much more interesting flavor and texture.  Plain green beans should be boiled to al dente' not mush so as to contrast the floppy BBQ'd meat.  Give your mouth somethin' to do!

Desert - King's choice - pretty much anything goes - Southern style apple pie, northern style apple mush/crumbles, peach cobbler, blueberry buckle, chocloate mousse (or moose if your Alaskan), what ever floats your boat!

Drinks - Wine is right out!  I love wine with good food, it just doesn't work - not even a garbage can wine cooler (If you don't know what that is, ask a California beach bum)    Beer works - but get rid of that cheap American crap - watered down horse whizz!  Grow some hair on your chest and pick something with some flavor for God's sake!  A smooth red ale work well with Beef and a stout goes well with pork, a pale lauger works with chicken, but play around.  Iced tea is however, the Queen's choice for accompanying BBQ (with lemonade right behind) t4ea should be sweet - lemonade tart (but not bitter).  Do the southern thing and seve your tea with crumbled up corn bread in it. (Yep, you heard me)  (see corn bread below)

Corn bread - Ah, nature's most perfect food (or at least one of them)  Southerner's have the right idea, northern's learn how to do it right - first off corn bread is not cake minus the icing!!!  If you make your corn bread in anything other than a cast iron skillet, stop right now and go get one!  Corn bread should be flat, not fluffy, crumbly but not hard - dark golden brown on top and bottom, and a soft lemon yellow in the center.  It shouldn't clump or be moist and it shouldn't have a sheen on top of it (Charlie, Martin or otherwise)!  If you've had it this way and think it's too dry - please do us all a favor and have yourself beaten.  

Hope this settles all this BBQ non-sence!  Now - LET's EAT!!!

_The above statements, while true are characterized in a tongue in cheek manner - if you were offend by the tone, please understand it was not meant personally as I have probably never met you.  However, I stand by my statements and the candor of my speech.   _


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## diaglo (Jul 12, 2005)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> My first post and I wwalk in to a TROLL - what a rube...




welcome aboard   

how have you been?


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## Cthulhu's Librarian (Jul 12, 2005)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> As for the Carolinians, dry smoked pork is quite tasty. It should be pulled, not sliced. Smother in vinegar; those tomato sauces belong on hamburgers.





Fixed that for you! 

BTW, welcome aboard. Now don't be a stranger.


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## Thunderfoot (Jul 12, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> welcome aboard
> 
> how have you been?




NOW THERE'S A NAME I HAVEN'T SEEN IN A WHILE!!!! 

Fine and hopefully you've been good your own self.    What do you think of my first post - as irreverant as ever.


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## kyloss (Jul 12, 2005)

Good barbeque doesnt need sauce, but does go well with it, I like my pork north carolina style, my brisket texas style but please leave the fat on when you slice it/ chopit, my pork ribs with a slightly sweet and spice dry rub, my chicken with a tomato based sweet and spicey sauce, and all of it smoked, and a selection of sauces on the table so I can chose what and how much my self. And being from texas I like my tea fresh and unsweet, not instant, not pre sweetened, but I do want the lemon wedges and sugar on the table but let me choose how I want it.


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## diaglo (Jul 12, 2005)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> NOW THERE'S A NAME I HAVEN'T SEEN IN A WHILE!!!!
> 
> Fine and hopefully you've been good your own self.    What do you think of my first post - as irreverant as ever.





Great. Good to see you still have a certain panache.


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 12, 2005)

Arizona highway baked roakill?


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## Bobitron (Jul 12, 2005)

I'm a pulled pork with a red BBQ sauce man. I don't know the correct terms, as there are very few places around in New England that I can have BBQ at.

There is one decent place in Mohegan Sun Casino called "Big Bubba's".  After reviewing the menu, I apparently like Memphis-style.

I would rather eat it down in NC when I visit my family with some real hushpuppies.


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## Thunderfoot (Jul 12, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> Great. Good to see you still have a certain panache.




Now don't be bringing breakfast in to... oh wait, my bad. :\


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 12, 2005)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Now don't be bringing breakfast in to... oh wait, my bad. :\



Bad?! Why is it.......oh, wait. Yeah, point taken.


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## wingsandsword (Jul 12, 2005)

Proper barbeque is preferably a brisket, although pulled pork is acceptable.  As for the wood, Mesquite is common, but I personally prefer the flavor of hickory.

Grilling isn't barbequing.  Going out in your backyard and firing up your grill isn't barbequing anything, that's grilling.  You grill a burger or a hot dog, you barbeque a brisket or a large section of a pig 

Yes, the sauce should be on the side: thick, sweet and spicy.  The sauce is on the side so you can savor the flavor of the meat proper, then compliment it with a little sauce.  No mass produced glorified ketchup either, skip the grocery store.  My sauce of choice is "Kentucky's Smoking Grill" (http://www.whitestoneorganicfarm.com/barbeque_sauce.htm), which is a locally made one.  No preservatives or anything like that, just a family recipe being produced in quantity.  Search google for that exact phrase and you'll get some good info.  

A dry rub for flavoring instead is okay for an occasional change of pace, but it's just not the same.


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## Thunderfoot (Jul 12, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Bad?! Why is it.......oh, wait. Yeah, point taken.




I like you!!


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 12, 2005)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> I like you!!



Thanks!


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## JamesDJarvis (Jul 12, 2005)

Real BBQ is brisket and pulled pork, you don't drizzle on the sauce you rub in the spices, vingear is used while marinating not as part of the sauce, cooked on coals not on propane.


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## ledded (Jul 13, 2005)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Corn bread - Ah, nature's most perfect food (or at least one of them) Southerner's have the right idea, northern's learn how to do it right - first off corn bread is not cake minus the icing!!! If you make your corn bread in anything other than a cast iron skillet, stop right now and go get one! Corn bread should be flat, not fluffy, crumbly but not hard - dark golden brown on top and bottom, and a soft lemon yellow in the center. It shouldn't clump or be moist and it shouldn't have a sheen on top of it (Charlie, Martin or otherwise)! If you've had it this way and think it's too dry - please do us all a favor and have yourself beaten.




I have to say Thunderfoot, while I may disagree or flat out take umbrage with some of your obviously delusional bbq ranting above  (just kiddin'), I have to give you a big ton of credit on cornbread. It's not cake (sweet... yech). It's not bread (fluffy... yech). And if it's not cooked in a cast-iron skillet like you said, it sure as hell aint cornbread. The *only* thing I will tolerate added to my cornbread is that mexican cornbread thing with the peppers and whatnot that makes it a bit spicy, and that's only because I've got a couple friends from Texas who prefer it that way so I give 'em the benefit of the doubt. If I go to a rib joint or a meat-n-three and the cornbread is sweet, I toss it.

Besides, if you think that the cornbread is too dry that way, that *is* why the Good Lord gave us butter, aint it?


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## ragboy (Jul 13, 2005)

ledded said:
			
		

> I have to say Thunderfoot, while I may disagree or flat out take umbrage with some of your obviously delusional bbq ranting above  (just kiddin'), I have to give you a bit ton of credit on cornbread. It's not cake (sweet... yech). It's not bread (fluffy... yech). And if it's not cooked in a cast-iron skillet like you said, it sure as hell aint cornbread. The *only* thing I will tolerate added to my cornbread is that mexican cornbread thing with the peppers and whatnot that makes it a bit spicy, and that's only because I've got a couple friends from Texas who prefer it that way so I give 'em the benefit of the doubt. If I go to a rib joint or a meat-n-three and the cornbread is sweet, I toss it.
> 
> Besides, if you think that the cornbread is too dry that way, that *is* why the Good Lord gave us butter, aint it?




We _have_ to have Thunderfoot at our barbeque. He can bring the cornbread. I throw in actual corn, peppers (not super hot, but enough to give it a bite), and sometimes tomatoes. But, a good plain cornbread with real butter can't be beat either. Now if I can just convince my wife that sweet cornbread is the Devil's work, I could put on that extra 50 lbs I'm looking for.


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## Gomez (Jul 13, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> Always drink Shiner beer with Brisket.




Amen Brother!


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## Thunderfoot (Jul 14, 2005)

LEDDED AND RAGBOY - 

Thank you for the compliments!  Butter for everybody!


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