# X4: Master of the Desert Nomads - OOC



## kinem (Apr 17, 2008)

[sblock=background]For years, the Great Waste to the west of the Republic of Darokin has been the home of nomad raiders. Petty little tribes, both human and otherwise, have roamed this trackless waste, raiding each other and the surrounding settlements. For a while, the local lords easily controlled this banditry. Then the tribes became dangerous: the raiders apparently set aside their feuds and prepared for war. Spies reported massive armies gathering. Shortly, some of the farthestflung towns were no longer heard from. Heeding their spies and the stories of refugees from the west, the lords and the governor of the Republic sent out a call for arms. Throughout the settled lands, they asked for mercenaries and experienced men to fight the nomad foes. All manner of men answered - peasants, mercenaries, veterans, elves, and adventurers. Among these many came your group.

You were late in arriving, for the main army had already marched. Your party joined the rag-tag lot of reserves going to meet them: the undesirables and unusables of those who came to fight. Along the way there were many quarrels and disputes. Peasants fought for a dead man’s boots; drunken mercenaries ransacked a village; men were knifed as old blood feuds broke out.

Finally, the reserves reached a village only recently taken by the main army. Still among the smoking ruins were the signs of nomad enemies - humans, orcs, and other unknown creatures. The commanders halted at this place. Now you have been camped here for several days.[/sblock]

Inspired by the recent run of old D&D nostalgia, I'm going to attempt running a 3.5 conversion of the classic BECMI D&D module X4: Master of the Desert Nomads (1983, David Cook).  If the players make it through, we can continue with module X5.  This goes against my own advice not to try to run long adventures, but we'll see.

The module takes place on Mystara (see pandius).  It's basically a standard D&D world, but with a few quirks.  I won't necessarily stick to Mystara canon, especially as 3.5 adds many new options (such as allowing non-human clerics); I'll do whatever I prefer with it, but I won't try to change the flavor too much.

Religion in Mystara is based on the worship of Immortals, who were mortals who have ascended to a higher plane and gained god-like powers.  They are basically the spirits of heroic (or villianous) ancestors.  Most common folk just call them gods and don't know much about them, though.  All mortals theoretically have a shot at becoming Immortals, but very few do. 

I'm looking to recruit 5 PCs.  Character creation:

8th level, 32 point buy

32,000 gp value of posessions owned.  I will allow this to be in any form.  However, not everything will necessarily be along for the ride with you.  If you want to own nothing but the shirt on your back and a pile of 3,200,000 cp, that's fine.  You left the copper back home, soldier.

Any 3.5 WotC material may be used, including 3.0 with 3.5 updates.  However, there are 3 caveats:

1) I reserve the right to nerf, ban, or house-rule anything I don't like.  There are a lot of things I don't like.  "Polymorph self" is banned, BTW.  Diplomacy is nerfed. etc.

2) If I don't own it, and can't read about it online in the SRD or crystalkeep, then in order to have it you have to email me the FULL TEXT that describes what it does.  I will then decide whether to nerf or ban it.

3) Nothing with Level Adjustments or racial HD, and no warforged.

Characters may be of any alignment but must be committed to the defense of Darokin (you must supply your own reasons) and must work well together.  You are members of an existing adventuring party.

Submit a short personality profile, class build (such as "Fighter 8", not a statted sheet), and short background.  Players may not be accepted on a first come, first serve basis; if there are enough applications, I'll pick the ones I think will fit best with the adventure, each other, and my own style.

The posting rate will have a goal of 1/day.  If you can't keep up, your PC may suffer an unfortunate fate.

Have fun!


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## Deuce Traveler (Apr 17, 2008)

I'm most likely a minority here, but can I throw in a request to make this a BECMI D&D, AD&D 1st edition, or Castles and Crusades game instead of 3.5?


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## Torillan (Apr 17, 2008)

Cool!  A blast from the past.

Color me interested.  I'll post a blurb in a bit.  I'd most likely go with a fighter, probably human.


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## Mellubb (Apr 17, 2008)

Can we get a list of what you do own.  I want make fighter with oversized TWF from Complete adventurer.  But if you do not own it I will do the right up.


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## EvolutionKB (Apr 17, 2008)

I too would like a list of books owned.  I am thinking at this point a shifter swordsage


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## kinem (Apr 17, 2008)

Deuce, I considered running it BECMI, requiring no conversion, but I don't think most people would have the books.  Besides, BECMI has some attractions (the great modules, no social skills system to ruin roleplaying, easy to play combat) but also some some weaknesses (races as classes, lack of various mechanics and options) but the show stopper is that there is no online SRD for it.

I don't own that many splat books actually; I have more of the weird stuff meant for DMs.  However, crystalkeep has a lot of stuff online.  It has the following base classes: Beguiler, Duskblade, Dragon Shaman, Favored Soul, Hexblade, Knight, Marshal, Ninja, Samurai, Scout, Spellthief, Spirit Shama, Swashbuckler, Warlock, Warmage.

I do own Heroes of Horror, which includes the Archivist and Dread Necromancer.  I also own Heroes of Battle, Frostburn, BoVD, LoM, DotU, MotP, Eberron CS (includes the Artificer), and FR CS.  I don't own Sandstorm but might be persuaded to get it if it's good since part of the module does take place in the desert.

Mellubb, Oversized TWF is in the feat list at crystalkeep.


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## Leif (Apr 17, 2008)

My submission:  Dwarf Rogue 2 Wizard (Conjurer or possibly Enchanter) 6, N/G, hailing from Rockhome (Clan Wyrwarf).  Definitely a nonconformist Dwarf, he never liked digging and getting dirty.  He thinks the _Clean_ cantrip is one of mortal kind's greatest inventions.  (Actually, I can't find _Clean_ on the spell list now, so I may have to "invent" it, sometime.) Because of his fastidious nature, he was relegated to the fringes of Dwarvish society and this disenfranchisement led directly to his becoming a rogue.  However, it wasn't long before he decided to pursue his true passion for magic and let the "accepted" world be hanged.  I'm thinking that even as a rogue he was studying spellcraft, so he is very accomplished in that respect.

As regards conjuration, he prefers to summon elementals and so avoid nasty aligned spells.

Be aware, Sir DM, that I like to sometimes select spells from both Complete Arcane and Complete Mage, because they're just pretty cool.  However, I will not do so here unless you have been provided with a full copy of the spell in question and given me your prior approval.  Actually, come to think of it, these are probably all on SRD anyway.


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## Deuce Traveler (Apr 17, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Deuce, I considered running it BECMI, requiring no conversion, but I don't think most people would have the books.  Besides, BECMI has some attractions (the great modules, no social skills system to ruin roleplaying, easy to play combat) but also some some weaknesses (races as classes, lack of various mechanics and options) but the show stopper is that there is no online SRD for it.




Ah well.  I understand.  Thanks though!


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## WarShrike (Apr 17, 2008)

I too would be intrested. I would submit a Barbarian/Frenzied Berzerker most likely.


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## Evilhalfling (Apr 17, 2008)

Well with the caviate that I may vanish around the first week of june (not sure how well caring for a newborn/ online RP mix) 

I would like to play a Fighter4/Battle Sorcerer4 (varient class in SRD) 
from Alfiem or southern Galentri

"More arrows?  *twang*twang*twang* Ok." 
and
"I use the pony for cover." _What pony?_ *POOF* "that one." 

He would owe a favor to someone humans grandfather, and have joined the defense of the realm to pay that debt. Lawful, fairly serious, but aware that his own life will last a long time unless he gets himself killed. 

Frenzyed berserker,  warShrike?  Really? you seem so sensible in my game.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 17, 2008)

Interested

Deep halfling druid with some sub levels from races of the wild. They are on crystalkeep.


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## Rhun (Apr 17, 2008)

Looks fun and I'd love to play. My submission:

Aram Al Tarik
Rogue 4 // Fighter 2 // Dervish 2 -or- Rogue 5 // Fighter 2 // Dervish 1

In combat he'll be a tumbling, twin scimitar fighter who looks to flank the enemy and score lots of sneak attack damage.

[sblock=Personality]
Personality
Aram was once quite selfish and greedy, always looking out for himself first. This was how his father had taught him to be, and that he could never rely on others. Since meeting Najm, though, Aram's personality has began to change. He has come to learn trust, and more and more thinks about things as they benefit the greater good. He believes in the concepts of honor and justice, though he realizes that man's laws are not always just. While he believes in defending the weak and oppressed, he is still a bit slow to react...the offer of coin motivates him much quicker, a holdover from his earlier life.
[/sblock]


[sblock=Background]
Aram grew up in the city of Ylaruam, raised by his father Tamir, an accomplished cutpurse and thief. Tamir raised his son in that tradition, teaching him the skills needed to be a thief, and the agile young boy was a quick study. About the time Aram came into adulthood, his father was caught stealing jewels from a wealthy qadi, and quickly executed for his crimes.

Aram continued his thieving ways, but his game was off after his father's death, and he made the mistake of picking a half-blind man by the name of Najm as a target. Najm caught Aram in the act, and then proceeded to defeat the young man in combat, leaving him bruised and bloodied. Still, Najm didn't call upon the law to deal with Aram; instead, he took it upon himself to teach and train Aram in hopes of bettering the lad's life. It turned out that Najm was formerly a soldier, and an elite guard of the Caliph.

Aram, anxious to learn something the would give value and meaning to his life, proved himself a talented and dedicated pupil, and quickly began to pick up the fighting techniques that Najm taught. Not only did the martial lessons stick, but Najm taught the young Aram about honor, and how it is the duty of the strong to protect the weak. These were things that Aram had certainly not learned from his father, and the young rogue soon found that these teachings gave him meaning and motivation.

After several years of study with Najm, the two came to the decision that Najm had taught Aram all that he could, and that Aram should go out into the world, seeking his own fortune and making his own life. Aram left Ylaruan
[/sblock]


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## renau1g (Apr 18, 2008)

Any Alignment? That's got me thinking about a class I've been _dying_ to try, the _*Dread Necromancer*_ (sorry... couldn't resist). Anyways...Kinem if you don't have Herroes of Horror please send me an e-mail (jericho_apa@hotmail.com) and I'll send you back the 4-pages from the book relating to the Dread Necromancer.

Name: Rajah Al-Qadim

Class: Dread Necromancer 8, AL: CN

Personality: Hunched and bowed by his perpetual misfortune, Rajah is not a very imposing person visually. With a head sparsely filled with greasy black hair and sunken and defeated green eyes, He relies on other things to notify people of his presence and abilities. Rather gaunt at 6'3" and 154 lbs, he tends to wear mismatched and oddly fitting clothing. His motto has always been to buy cheap what you don't absolutely need and with his nature, he doesn't truly need anything.

Background: Rajah tends to be an unlucky individual. From the circumstances that led to him becoming an orphan and his parents becoming undead, to just everday life, this has proven to be true. He knows that something is going to go wrong and it's going to happen for him. This leads to him being rather morose and pessimistic, but also cultivates a fierce temper. He throws himself into battle with reckless abandon because if something is already going to go wrong, he might as well go all out.


Note: I'm thinking to play him as a character who views death as a natural part of life and that one shouldn't waste the resources they leave behind... he won't be killing any peasants, etc.


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## Jemal (Apr 18, 2008)

If you'd allow it, and still have room, I'd like to sign on as a Half-orc Warlock, my strange little take on the 'fighter-mage'. 

Nargon the Acursed.  He's loyal to his fellows and his country for taking him in despite his mixed heritage and cursed family line.  VERY loyal to those who earn his respect, doesn't really like anyone else, unless they're strong, in which case he'd like to fight them and test his strength against theirs (Though he's not stupid enough to do this at innoportune times).


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## kinem (Apr 18, 2008)

Just to be clear, what I'd like to see is:

Name, race class build, personality sketch, and a short background.

I want to know what makes him or her unusual and interesting, or even just plain realistic and typical for a human being (which would be unusual and interesting for a PC!)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Leif: You dwarf idea looks good.

WarShrike: Frenzied Berzerker has some issues and may not fit.  I would ban deathless frenzy, though I know it's higher level.

Evilhalfling, WalkingDad, Rhun: Flesh out the character idea and we'll see.

renau1g: Looks good.  I have HoH.  DN is OK; just ask Anton Sharp.

Jemal: You played well in my last game but you dropped out without taking your leave.  Why should I trust you now?


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## Leif (Apr 18, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Leif: Your dwarf idea looks good.



Excellent!  Thank you.  His name will be occurring to me soon, I trust.  I'll try to get him worked up this weekend.  I probably can't do so any sooner than that. Oh, I hope I'm chosen!  I'm already looking forward to this game.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 18, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Just to be clear, what I'd like to see is:
> 
> Name, race class build, personality sketch, and a short background.
> 
> ...




Girgal "Bloody Claws" Scalefoot, Ghostwise Halfling Druid 8
Feats: Spell Focus (Conjuration), Augment Summoning, Natural Spell

Girgal is a wanderer. After some adventures in Hollow World, he converted to the deity Ka, patron of dinosaurs. He doesn't talk much about his past life, but their are hints he was member of an evil nature cult before conversion. He prefers dinosaurs for his wild shapes and animal companions.
His current companion is a fleshraker called "Ripclaw".

He has a chaotic personality but is a determined protector of nature. He is not easy to befriend for humanoids, but is a true friend in need. (Alignment: Savage neutral    )

He wears a hide armor made from the hide of his last companion, who sacrificed himself for Girgal. In fights he prefers spells and melee in wild shape. In normal situations, he rides his companion.


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## Jemal (Apr 18, 2008)

Hmm.. Unfortunately, if you look at it that way, there'd really be little I could say to reassure you.  

Sometimes stuff happens, and you have to deal with it.  We all understand that Real Life is more important than an online game, and if something happens that requires me to dissapear, then dissapear I must.  I'd certainly try to warn people if such a circumstance were to come up again, but neither I nor anybody else on here can make such a promise, not truthfuly anyways.  I have the exact same chance of dissapearing as anyone else on here.  

If you want a reasurance, look at how long I've been here and how much I post when I'm here.  I'm a good roleplayer, a frequent poster when I'm around, and pretty damn reliable if you disregard personal... issues... which can happen to anybody.  I've seen lots of people come and go on these boards, and have been here for MANY games, both as DM and player, where I outlasted most or sometimes even all of the other people in the game.

Besides, if this game's as good as I'm thinking/hoping it'll be, I'll have very strong incentive to stick around, won't I?


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## Rhun (Apr 18, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Rhun: Flesh out the character idea and we'll see.





Fleshed out a bit above.


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## EvolutionKB (Apr 19, 2008)

I've decided to switch up my concept a little bit.  Shifter(beasthide) psychic warrior 8.  Talisor is the kin of a group of were-crocodiles that hunted in a now dried up river.  He was a member of one of the tribes that was marching for war until it was revealed that his tribe was sacrificing members to some greater power.  The power was a mindflayer that had the tribal leaders on puppet strings with it alien abilities.   When Talisor learned of his tribes domination, he was taken for a plaything of the mindflayer.  Imprisoned deep below the world, the mindflayer tortured Talisor mentally and physically.  Luckily Talisor was strong is both aspects, the experiments the mind flayer conducted on the shifter caused his psionic powers to manifest.  Talisor killed the creature and wandered in the darkness alone to the world above.  The traumatic experience along with wandering though countless miles of caves alone in the dark caused the hardy shifter to become deathly afraid of the dark and unstable mentally; he always carries a light on him in the darkness.  Now that he has returned to the light of day, Talisor seeks to explore his new powers, as well as restore his tribes' leader to their right minds, or at least stop them from doing further harm.


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## kinem (Apr 19, 2008)

Interesting.  There have been several good character proposals, so recruiting is now closed.  Thanks everyone!

I want to keep the party at  PCs, hoping even that won't bog down the pace of play.

If your PC was not selected this time, and you are still interested, you might come in if replacement players are needed.

The party will initially consist of the following:

Leif:  dwarf rogue/wizard
Rhun: Aram Al Talik, rogue/fighter/dervish
renau1g: Rajah Al-Qadim, dread necromancer
Walking Dad: Girgal Scalefoot, ghostwise halfling druid
Jemal: Nargon, half-orc warlock

(Jemal: I don't buy that you can't squeeze off a quick post to say "Don't wait for me, I have to bow out".  If Revielle managed to get a post off from his hospital bed, I'm sure you could do it from whatever situation you are in.  Remember, dropping out is never the problem; creating uncertainty and making everybody wait because you didn't post to that effect is the problem.  There will never be a 3rd chance with me if you screw up again, you can be sure.  But I do believe in 2nd chances.)

Go ahead and stat up your PCs, and post them in the rogues gallery which will soon be up.

Hit points will be max for 1st level, and average-rounded-up for each additional level (so a d10, with an average of 5.5, would give you 6 hp).

All dice rolls will be made by the DM.


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## Evilhalfling (Apr 19, 2008)

Okay - well good luck guys, keep me in mind if there is an open slot later. Especially for a   
I never did get my character's personality to where I wanted to play him. I'll turn it over see if I can settle on something later.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 19, 2008)

Thanks for choosing Girgal. I will complete his sheet monday at the latest.


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## renau1g (Apr 19, 2008)

Thanks Kinem... I really look forward to this game. 

I'll be the same as Walking Dad, Monday at the latest... accursed tax season. Only 12 more days...


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## Jemal (Apr 19, 2008)

Well, here's first draft of Nargon's numbers.  I gotta leave for work in a little while, so I'm posting for feedback and i'll finish after work.
[sblock=Nargon the Accursed]
Male Half-Orc Warlock 8
AL: CG HT: 6'3" WT: 280 Hair: Long, braided, Black Eyes: Green

STR: 22 (+6) [10 points + 2 Racial + 2 lvl + 2 Magic]
DEX: 14 (+3) [6 points + 2 Magic]
CON: 12 (+1) [4 points]
INT: 10 (+0) [4 points - 2 Racial]
WIS: 10 (+0) [2 points]
CHA: 12 (+1) [6 points - 2 Racial]

HP:  (8d6+8) AC: 18 (10 base + 3 dex + 5 armour)
Saves: FORT: +3 (2 base + 1 con)  REF: +5 (2 base + 3 dex) WILL: +6 (6 base + 0 wis)
Init: +3  Speed: 40

Bab: 6
Attacks: 
Spiked Chain: +15/10, 2d4+11, 10' reach
Eldritch Blast: +9 touch, 5d6, 60' range
Hideous Blow: +15, 2d4+5d6+11, 10'reach

Skills(Total/Ranks):[22 Points] 
Jump(+11/0), Use Magic Device (+12/11), 11 more points to spend

Feats: [3]  Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Spiked Chain, Weapon Focus: Spiked Chain, 1 more feat

Class Features:  Invocations, Eldritch Blast, Detect magic, DR 2/Cold Iron, Fiendish Resilience 1, Deceive Item

INVOCATIONS:
Least - 
  Hideous Blow:  Add Eldritch blast damage to melee attack
  Entropic Warding - Leave no trail, can't be tracked by scent, 20% miss chance on all ranged attack rolls against you.
  Devil's Sight - See normally in darkness (magical or non-magical)
Lesser -
  Fell Flight - 40' Flight, good manueverability 
  Flee the Scene - 45' dimension door + Major image of self where you were for 1 round


Languages: Common, Orc

Equipment: 
+2 Spiked Chain (8,325)
+1 Breast plate, (1,350)
Belt of Strength +2 (4,000)
Gloves of Dexterity +2 (4,000)
Boots of striding/springing (5,500)
Accursed Family Amulet [Lesser chasuble of fell power](8,000)
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750)
75 GP
[/sblock]


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## Leif (Apr 20, 2008)

Bevin, Dwarf Rogue2, Wizard(Enchanter)6, XP 28,000
[sblock=Stats]
Age: 53
Gender: Male
Height: 4'2"
Weight: 135lb
Eyes: Dark Grey
Hair: Black
Beard:  Black, mostly, with white streaks
Skin: Deep Tan

STR:13 [+1] (5 pts) 
DEX:16=15+1 [+3] (8 pts, +1 4th level increase)
CON:15=13+2(race) [+2] (5 pts)
INT:16=15+1 [+3] (8 pts, +1 8th level increase)
WIS:11 [+0] (3 pts)
CHA:9=11-2(race) [-1] (3 pts)
32 point buy

HP: 44 [6+4+3+3+3+3+3+3+con(16)]
Wounds:

Armor Class: 20 (10 base + 5 (+3 leather armor) +2 ring of prot. + 3 dex) (Arcane spell failure chance=5%)
- Flat-footed AC: 17
- Touch AC: 15
Initiative: +3
BAB: +3
Atttack:
- +2 Heavy Mace, +7 (+3BAB+1weapon focus+1str+2magic mace) dam 1d6+3
- dagger +4 (BAB+str) dam 1d3+1
- Heavy Crossbow, +6 (+3 BAB +3dex) dam 1d8

Speed: 20' 

Saves (Plus see below under racial abilities for bonuses vs. spells and poison)
FORT: +4 (+2 base + 2 con)
REF: +6 (+3 base + 3 dex)
WILL: +5 (+5 base + 0 wis)

Racial Abilities: 
- +2 Con, -2 Cha
- Speed 20"
- Darkvision
- Stonecutting, +2 to notice new stonework
- Stability (+4 to resist being bullrushed or tripped)
- +2 Racial bonus to saves vs. poison
- +2 Racial bonus to saves vs. spells or spell-like effects
- +1 Racial bonus "to hit" orcs and golinoids
- +4 Dodge bonus to AC vs. creatures of the Giant type
- +2 Racial bonus to Appraise and Craft skill checks regarding stone or metal items

Feats:
1st Level
- Weapon Focus (Heavy Mace)
3rd level (1st level Wizard bonus feats)
- Scribe Scroll
- Summon Familiar
4th Level (standard)
- Skill Focus (Knowledge [Arcana]) +2
8th Level (standard)
- Magical Aptitude (+2 Spellcraft and Use Magical Device)


Skills:
- Appraise +7 (2 ranks, +3 int, +2 racial)
- Climb +7 (4 ranks, +1 str +2 climbers' kit)
- Concentration +13 (11 ranks, +2 con)
- Disable Device +9 (6 ranks, +3 dex)
- Gather Information +4 (5 ranks, -1 cha)
- Hide +8 (5 ranks, +3 dex)
- Knowledge (Arcana) +14 (9 ranks, +3 int, +2 feat)
- Move Silently +10 (7 ranks, +3 dex)
- Open Locks +9 (6 ranks, +3 dex)
- Search +9 (6 ranks, +3 int)
- Sleight of Hand +7 (4 ranks, +3 dex)
- Spellcraft +14 general (9 ranks, +3 int, +2 feat), 
   - +16 for checks regarding School of Enchantment (specialty school)
   - +9 for checks regarding Schools of Abjuration and Divination (prohibited schools)
- Spot  +6 (6 ranks)

Languages:
- Common
- Dwarvish
- Draconic
- Giant
- Orc

Equipment:
Armor & Shield
- +3 Leather Armor (9,160gp,) (5% arcane spell failure chance)
- +2 Ring of Protection (8,000 gp)

Melee weapons
- +2 Heavy Mace (1d6+2+1str) (8,312gp,)
- dagger (1d3+1str, r. 10', crit. 19-20)

Ranged weapons
- Spells
- Heavy Crossbow (r. 120')
- Dagger (r. 10')

Equipment
- Backpack (2gp), lined with Bag of Holding, Type I (2,500 gp)
----- money 247 gp
----- Bedroll (1sp)
----- Trail rations, 5 days (25sp)
----- 2 sacks (2cp)
----- Climbers' Kit (80 gp)
----- 2 Sunrods
----- 3 Potions, Cure Moderate Wounds (@ 300 gp ea)
----- 4 Potions, Cure Serious Wounds (@ 750 gp ea)
- Wand of Detect Magic 50 ch.
-2 Beltpouches (@ 1gp ea.)
----- Flint & steel (1gp,)
----- M/W Thieves' Tools (100 gp)
- Spell Component Pouch (5 gp)
- Waterskin (1gp)
- Explorer's outfit (10gp, worn)
- 2 Daggers (@ 2 gp ea.)

Weight Carried: 
Remaining money: 247 gp

Spellbook (Prohibited Schools:  Abjuration and Divination)

0 Level - All except Abjuration/Divination: Acid Splash, Daze, Dancing Lights, Flare, Light, Ray of Frost, Ghost Sound, Disrupt Undead, Touch of Fatigue, Mage Hand, Mending, Message, Open/Close, Repair Minor Damage (Comp. Arcane p. 120), Arcane Mark, Prestidigitation

1 Level - Burning Hands, Charm Person, Grease, Hypnotism, Obscuring Mist, Ray of Enfeeblement, Sleep, Summon Monster I

2 Level - Daze Monster, Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Touch of Idiocy, Summon Monster II

3 Level - Deep Slumber, Heroism, Hold Person, Summon Monster III

Spells Typically Memorized (4/3/3/2, plus int bonus, plus spec. bonus = 4/4+1/4+1/3+1)
(spells marked with a "U" have been used for the day)
0 Level - Detect Magic, Detect Magic, Flare (if cast directly on creature, must save (Fort) or be dazzled for one minute), Light
1 Level - Burning Hands (fire damage 5d4, no touch attack necessary, but save (ref.) for half damage), Burning Hands, Ray of Enfeeblement (touch attack for str damage of 1d6+4), Sleep (4hd) + Sleep (4hd)
2 Level - Tasha's Hideous Laughter, Tasha's Hideous Laughter (Will save negates, dur. 6 rounds), Touch of Idiocy (touch target for 1d6 dam to int,wis, and cha, no saving throw, dur. 60 min.), Daze Monster (any creature with less than 7hd) + Daze Monster
3 Level - Summon Monster III, Heroism, Hold Person + Deep Slumber (10hd)


Description - Coming soon

Personality - Bevin tends to be pretty easygoing.  Because he was always somewhat ostracized from Dwarvish society due to his interest in magic, Bevin has a soft spot in his heart for outcasts and misfits.  He also has an abiding hatred of bullies and conformists (whom he sees as mere 'sheep').

Background - Bevin hails from Rockhome (Clan Wyrwarf). Definitely a nonconformist Dwarf, Bevin never liked to dig and get dirty.  Because of this fastidious nature, Bevin was relegated to the fringes of Dwarvish society, and this disenfranchisement led directly to his decision to be a rogue.  However, soon he found the moral courage necessary for him to pursue his true passion:  MAGIC.  For a Dwarf, this was not a terribly easy decision, both because of Dwarvish culture, and because of the innate resistance of Dwarves to magical energy.  But Bevin was always fascinated by magic, so he finally made up his mind to pursue his true passion.  Bevin is content with the choice has has made, because magic is what he wants to do with his life, and the rest of the "accepted" Dwarvish world can, for all he cares, just go and be hanged. Even as a rogue, Bevin was studying spellcraft as much as possible, so he is very accomplished in that skill for someone of his experience as a wizard.

Future Development:  Depending on how much success Bevin has adventuring while he is focused primarily on his career as a wizard, he may choose to pursue additional rogue levels in the future.  Magic is still his favorite pursuit and greatest hobby, but this decision would be based solely upon survival, not personal preference.  He might even take a level or two as a fighter since that is the favored class of Dwarves.
[/sblock]


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 20, 2008)

*Girgal*

Girgal "Bloody Claws" Scalefoot

Male Ghostwise Halfling Druid 8
[sblock=Stats]
Age: 
Gender: Male
Height: 
Weight: 
Eyes: 
Hair: Black
Skin: Light Tan


```
AL: CN HT: '" WT: ?  Hair: Long, braided, Brown    Eyes: Emerald Green

Str:  8 -1 (2p.)        Level: 8        XP: 28000
Dex: 16 +3 (6p.)        BAB: +6/+1      HP: (8d8+16)
Con: 14 +2 (6p.)        Grapple: +1     Dmg Red: N/A
Int: 14 +2 (6p.)        Speed: 20'      Spell Res: N/a
Wis: 18 +4 (10p.+2)     Init: +3        Spell Save: N/A
Cha: 10 +0 (2p.)        ACP: ?          Spell Fail: -
(Wis +1 at 4th & 8th level)


AC: ? (10 base + 3 dex + 5 armour)

Saves:
FORT: +8 (6 base + 2 con)
REF: +5 (2 base + 3 dex)
WILL: +10 (6 base + 4 wis)

Bab: 6
Attacks: 
 

Skills: 
Handle Animal
Survival
Concentration
Ride
Spot

Feats: [3]
Spell Focus (Conjuration)
Augment Summoning
Natural Spell

Class Features:
Spellcasting
Spontanous casting
Animal companion
Enhanced link
nature sense, wild empathy
Woodland stride
Trackless step
Resist nature’s lure
Wild shape (3/day) (small - large)


Languages: Common, Halfling, Druidic, ?, ?
```
[/sblock][sblock=Background & Personality]
Girgal is a wanderer. After some adventures in Hollow World, he converted to the deity Ka, patron of dinosaurs. He doesn't talk much about his past life, but their are hints he was member of an evil nature cult before conversion. He prefers dinosaurs for his wild shapes and animal companions.
His current companion is a fleshraker called "Ripclaw".

He has a chaotic personality but is a determined protector of nature. He is not easy to befriend for humanoids, but is a true friend in need. (Alignment: Savage neutral )

He wears a hide armor made from the hide of his last companion, who sacrificed himself for Girgal. In fights he prefers spells and melee in wild shape. In normal situations, he rides his companion.
[/sblock]


----------



## kinem (Apr 20, 2008)

Please post your PCs in the Rogues' Gallery.

Just at a quick glance: Bevin's 3rd level spell could be Hold Person, not Hold Monster.


----------



## Leif (Apr 20, 2008)

*Oops*

Good Save on the Hold Person/Monster spell!  Thanks.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 20, 2008)

Kinem, with us starting at 8th level, I'm wondering if you'd allow me to have created an undead by this point? My thoughts would be to have 2 undead, 1 mount (non-combat), and 1 bodyguard (big, protector). If you'll allow it what HD would I be limited to for each? As I could theoretically have created a 16HD skeleton at 8th level.


----------



## kinem (Apr 20, 2008)

renau1g, while you could certainly have created those undead, they will not be travelling with you (unless you have some way to conceal them, and hide the smell of any zombies).  The regular soldiers and peasants would freak out at the sight of the undead.  Don't worry, you will have a chance to animate dead as the adventure proceeds.

If you find a way around this, my rule is as follows: Consider human and common animal bodies to cost 1 gp each for starting equipment. (Human bodies abound on the battlefield, of course.) You must pay for other animation costs, such as onyx. Monster bodies that you have animated must be approved on a case by case basis and typically cost 100 gp x CR x HD, plus any animation costs. (For example, an ogre is CR 3 and has 4 HD, so its body would cost 1200 gp.)  Rare monsters would cost more.

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The introductory IC post is up.  The main adventure will start when all characters heets are up, but we can do a little roleplaying in the meantime if you guys want to talk to NPCs or each other or to explore somewhere.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 21, 2008)

My thoughts were a hat of disguise, but maybe I'll wait on the bodyguard. At least for now  I'll use a Heavy Warhorse skeleton for my mount (really no benefit in game, expect no need to feed it) if that's ok with you. Stats are on LM 159.


----------



## kinem (Apr 21, 2008)

I'll allow the skeletal horse, but you have to keep it discreet.

A hat of disguise wouldn't work - the wearer would have to activate it, and a mindless undead can't do that.

Leif, I just noticed this: You can't choose Divination as a prohibited school.  Choose a different one.

Folks, remember that the IC thread is up for some RP while stats are being finalized.


----------



## Leif (Apr 21, 2008)

Nuts! I should have known that!  Ok, I'll make the change.  Done!  Prohibited schools are now Abjuration and Transmutation.

Actually, it wasn't that traumatic a change, because I didn't select any transmutation spells anyway.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 21, 2008)

Ok thanks Kinem... I thought maybe I could order them to activate the item, but it makes sense they couldn't use it. I'm thinking I could take 20 on my Disguise check to hide the true nature of the horse, maybe throw some barding on it to help.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 22, 2008)

I've posted my character in the RG. Please let me know if there are any changes to make.

Thanks!


----------



## kinem (Apr 22, 2008)

Walking Dad, what are these spells: animalistic power, spirit jaws, blast of sand, enhance wildshape?  I don't see them on crystalkeep, so I'll need full details.

renau1g, what are the following: Kelgore's gave mist, deadwalker's ring, boots of the unending journey?

Being chaotic you should probably have a quasit instead of an imp.  Also, near the end you accidently left in a reference to "Reezo" (wonder where that's from   ).

BTW the gems used for animation are onyx, not opal.


Jemal, what's a lesser chasuble of fell power?  Also, don't forget to post in the IC while continuing to compile your stats.

BTW, would anyone object to my moving the story along to where you begin to interview the river guide at this point?  If so let me know, as otherwise I want to get things going.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 22, 2008)

[sblock=Grave Mist Spell]
Kelgore’s Grave Mist
Conjuration/Necromancy [Cold]
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 2
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Area: 20-ft. radius spread, 20 ft. high
Duration: 1 round/level
Saving Throw: None
All living creatures within the mist become fatigued and take 1d6 points of cold damage per round.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Deadwalker's Ring]

Effect: While you wear the ring, any undead you create by a spell (such as animate dead) gain +2 hit points per HD. This benefit doesn't stack with the extra hit points granted by the desecrate spell. 

Essentially grants the bonuses from Desecrate spell for a cost of 4,000 gp

[/sblock]

[sblock=Boots of Unending Journey]
Alignment restricted boots (NG, LN, N, CN, NE) if meet these requirements gain a +10 ft. enhancement bonus to movement speed. 

Essentially Boots of Springing & Striding without the bonus to jump
[/sblock]

That's true about the familiar, although I'll need to change the IC thread (the raven doesn't really work now and a wolf doesn't really fit on his shoulders). Whoops...redfaced...

I'm good with moving the story forward.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 22, 2008)

lesser chasuble of fell power is an amulet slotted magic item from Complete Arcane (Same book as Warlock).  8,000 GP, increases eldritch blast damage by 1d6.  There's a greater version for 18,000 that increases it to +2d6.

Stats are done btw, posting now. (Both to RG and IC)


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 22, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Walking Dad, what are these spells: animalistic power, spirit jaws, blast of sand, enhance wildshape?  I don't see them on crystalkeep, so I'll need full details.




[sblock=Spells]

Animalistic Power (PH2)
Transmutation
Level: 	Clr 2, Drd 2, Sor/Wiz 2, Ranger 2
Components: 	V, S, M
Casting Time: 	1 standard action
Range: 	Touch
Target: 	Creature touched
Duration: 	1 min./level
Saving Throw: 	Will negates (harmless)
Spell Resistance: 	Yes (harmless)
The spell grants a +2 enhancement bonus to Strength, Dexterity and Constitution.
Arcane Material Component
A few hairs, or a pinch of dung, from a bull. 

Blast of Sand (Sandstorm) - Cone of Cold lite (cone, d6/level, max 10d6), only without the energy type. No SR!  Type out the rest if needed (Conjuration Spell)

All Spell Compendium
SPIRITJAWS
Evocation [Force]
Level: Druid 3
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Medium (100 + 10 ft./level)
Effect: Jaws of force
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: Yes
You call upon the power of the dinosaurs to
complete the spell. A set of ghostly dinosaur
jaws comes into being and attacks the
creature you designate.
This spell creates a set of powerful jaws
of force. The jaws attempt to grapple the
designated opponent, starting with one
attack in the round the spell is cast and
continuing each round thereafter. The
spiritjaws use your base attack bonus
(possibly allowing it multiple attacks
per round in subsequent rounds) +
your Wis modifier as its attack bonus.
If an initial attack hits, the spiritjaws
deal 2d6 points of damage and attempt
to start a grapple as a free action. The
jaws’ bonus on grapple checks is equal
to their attack bonus + 4.
Once the opponent is grappled, the
jaws deal 2d6 points of damage with
each subsequent grapple check. The
target is considered to be grappling
and cannot move. The target creature
no longer threatens squares and loses
its Dexterity bonus to AC against
opponents not grappling it.
The set of jaws always strikes from
your direction. It does not get a bonus
for flanking or help a combatant get
one. Your feats do not affect the jaws.
If the jaws move beyond the range of
the spell, they vanish. Attacking the set
of jaws has no effect. As a magical force
effect, the jaws cannot be damaged, but
disintegrate or a sphere of annihilation
destroys the effect.
The grappled opponent can cast a
spell only if the spell has no somatic
component, the material components
are in hand, and a Concentration check
(DC 20 + spell level) is made. A creature
grappled by the set of jaws can attempt
to escape by succeeding on a grapple
check against the jaws or by making
a successful Escape Artist check as a
standard action opposed by the set of
jaws’ grapple check.
As a free action, you can direct the
jaws to pin a grappled opponent instead
of dealing damage with a grapple
check. If the jaws win the opposed
grapple check, the opponent is pinned.
A pinned opponent is held immobile
and must break the pin before it can
escape the grapple. Creatures other
than those grappling the pinned target
gain a +4 bonus on attack rolls to hit
it. If the jaws have multiple attacks
(granted by your attack bonus), you can
use them to cause damage to a pinned
target or to make more grapple attempts
against that target.
If you become unable to command
the jaws, they vanish.
Material Component: A piece of bone
from a dinosaur’s jaw.

ENHANCE WILD SHAPE
Transmutation
Level: Druid 4
Components: V, S
Casting Time: 1 minute
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 1 hour/level
You call upon the primordial energies of
nature to fill you with the raw power of
nature. A feral feeling grows within you,
seeking release.
This spell infuses your wild shape ability
with magical energy, magnifying
and enhancing its power. The type
of enhancement must be chosen at
the time the spell is cast and cannot
be changed once the spell is in effect.
The next time you activate your wild
shape ability (during the duration of
enhance wild shape), this spell enhances
your new form in the way you selected.
The enhancement to your wild shape
remains as long as you stay in that form
(or until the spell’s duration expires)
but does not apply to your next wild
shape form. If you do not activate your
wild shape ability during the duration
of enhance wild shape, the spell has no
effect.
You select one of the following
enhancements when you cast this
spell.
• Assume the form of a plant with your
next wild shape.
• Gain the extraordinary abilities of
the new form.
• The new form assumed is stronger
than normal and gains a +2 bonus
to Strength.
• The new form assumed is more agile
than normal and gains a +2 bonus to
Dexterity.
• The new form assumed is healthier
than normal and gains a +2 bonus to
Constitution.
A druid can be affected by more than
one enhance wild shape spell at a time,
but a different wild shape enhancement
must be chosen each time.
[/sblock]

I'm fine with jumping to the river guide.

BTW: If our gruoup are the "heroes" this people really have a problem


----------



## kinem (Apr 23, 2008)

Indeed  

Let me know if I'm moving too fast.

BTW here's how I plan to run combat, but let me know if you have another preference:

The first round, I'll roll initiative for everyone.  I'll group NPC actions together.  This will create up to three groups of combatants:

1) (possibly) those PCs who act before the NPCs
2) the NPCs
3) this group includes all of the PCs, whether or not they acted before the NPCs

First, players with PCs in group 1 can post their actions, and that will be resolved.  Your initiative bonus can help you get into this group.

Next, NPCs will act.

Then, PCs will act.  The order in which you act depends on how soon you post, not on what your initiative roll was.

Once all PCs have acted, actions will continue to alternate between NPC and PC groups.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 23, 2008)

Looks good to me. It seems like it will help speed up combat (save a post from everyone asking for Init. rolls)


----------



## Jemal (Apr 23, 2008)

it also works with delaying/readying actions.. if you want to post but the person you're waiting for hasn't gone yet 
"Bob waits for one of his companions to charge into combat, and then attacks the other opponent with his magic missiles"


----------



## kinem (Apr 26, 2008)

BTW, you generally shouldn't roll diplomacy checks.  I said upfront that diplomacy would be nerfed.  Basically, I will base NPC reactions more on your words (and my notion of how the NPC would think) than on rolls.  I _will_ try to take into account what your modifiers are, as well as circumstancial modifiers such as any prejudices they might have.

Any comments on that are welcome of course


----------



## Leif (Apr 26, 2008)

My diplomacy check today was not a serious skill check.  It was done very tongue-in-cheek.  But, anyway, I knew that you had told us not to roll diplomacy, but I had already forogtten.  Could I move Bevin's skill points spent on Diplomacy elsewhere?


----------



## kinem (Apr 26, 2008)

Under the circumstances I would allow it, except that as far as I see, he doesn't have any!

Remember also that I will try to take the diplomacy modifier into account as one factor.

I will also observe the following: The locals here are not prejudiced against dwarves or halflings.  They are at war with desert nomads who bear some resemblance (and perhaps ethnic ties) to the desert people of Ylarum.  They are certainly prejudiced against orcs and necromancers.  (The madman, of course, is a special case!   )

That set of prejudices would change if you start dealing with, for example, desert nomads.


----------



## Leif (Apr 26, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Under the circumstances I would allow it, except that as far as I see, he doesn't have any!



You're so right! And I'm so embarrassed! (But, at least that means that I read what you said about it being a useless skill in your game.  heh)


----------



## Leif (Apr 27, 2008)

Bevin has zero ranks of Diplomacy, but he does have 5 ranks of "Gather Information."  Is this handled similarly to Diplomacy, and, if so, could I re-allocate those 5 skill points somewhere more useful?  And what about the "Search" skill -- if that's something you'd rather role-play out, then Bevin has 6 more ranks to re-allocate.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 27, 2008)

kinem,

I forgot to purchase a melee weapon, I was thinking of a mace or morningstar? Would it be ok to buy one now?

Thanks!


----------



## Leif (Apr 27, 2008)

[sblock=renau1g]Question:  Why did you ask Jemal?  kinem is our dm here.[/sblock]


----------



## kinem (Apr 28, 2008)

I guess Rajah wants to buy Nargon's spiked chain off of him right in the middle of combat 

renau1g, I'll allow you to have purchased a weapon.  I would like to finalize the PCs so this will be the last retroactive change I'll allow.

Leif: Gather information is for use when you _don't_ roleplay out an evening's worth of asking questions.  As the SRD says: A typical Gather Information check takes 1d4+1 hours.  You can't _make_ a Gather Information check just by talking in character to a single NPC.

That said, Gather Information should remain useful.

Search is certainly useful for a rogue.  That doesn't mean I will never want you to specify the details of what you are searching.


----------



## Leif (Apr 28, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> ILeif: Gather information is for use when you _don't_ roleplay out an evening's worth of asking questions.  As the SRD says: A typical Gather Information check takes 1d4+1 hours.  You can't _make_ a Gather Information check just by talking in character to a single NPC.
> That said, Gather Information should remain useful.
> Search is certainly useful for a rogue.  That doesn't mean I will never want you to specify the details of what you are searching.



Does this mean that I can't re-allocate those 6 skill points? 'Cause I would kinda like to if you'll let me, to improve Bevin's rogue skills and spellcraft.  Also, my original question about this was before your "character change cut-off," so you can let me do this without going back on your deadline.


----------



## renau1g (Apr 28, 2008)

Please forgive my slight mental mistakes we've just had twins and I've not been sleeping too well. My apologies to kinem et all.


----------



## kinem (Apr 28, 2008)

renau1g, congrats.

Leif, you can reallocate them.


----------



## Leif (Apr 28, 2008)

Thanks, Bossman!


----------



## Rhun (Apr 28, 2008)

Hey Leif,

Not to be nitpicky, but your skills for Bevin are somewhat off. Remember, you can only have up to 5 ranks in rogue skills before you have to start paying cross-classed price for them, since Bevin is only a 2nd level rogue (this doesn't affect your maximum rank, since that will still be level +3, it only affects how expensive each skill is each level). And because of that, you have 19 rogue skills point that you spent boosting those skills above 5 ranks that needed to be spent on other skills. 

I've found that the best way to avoid this when you built a PC is to build their ranks level by level. It seems to be a really common problem that people have building multi-class characters in 3.X. 

If Kinem is cool with it, than that's fine. But I need to know so I can take advantage of it to. 

Anyway, not trying to be a rules lawyer or anything, but just thought I should make note of it.


----------



## Leif (Apr 28, 2008)

I believe you may be right.  I did it the way you suggested, level by level, when I created Bevin, but when kinem let me ditch those two skills today and reallocate the points I adjusted some.  Actually, those skills that I reduced would be cross-class for wizards, too, so I should have the same number of skill ranks in another skill.  I may have made a arlithemetical error, however, I got pretty confused adding, subracting, and tweaking skills.  But, really, I do know how to do it properly. 

Actually, one thing I don't have memorized yet is how many skill points each class gets per level.  If you could give me those figures for Rogues (7?) and Wizards (4?), I know the int bonuses, so I can re-figure now.  If not, it'll have to wait until tonight.


----------



## Rhun (Apr 28, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> I believe you may be right.  I did it the way you suggested, level by level, when I created Bevin, but when kinem let my ditch those two skills today and reallocate the points I adjusted some.  Actually, those skills that I reduced would be cross-class for wizards, too, so I should have the same number of skill ranks in another skill.  I may have made a arlithemetical error, however, I got pretty confused adding, subracting, and tweaking skills.  But, really, I do know how to do it properly.




It is very confusing. And that is the worst thing about reallocating skill points, is you almost have to go back and rebuild the skills from scratch. I used to make these kind of mistakes a lot when I first started playing 3.X...I've built hundreds of PCs since then, though (unfortunately, most of them haven't found homes in games.)



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Actually, one thing I don't have memorized yet is how many skill points each class gets per level.  If you could give me those figures for Rogues and Wizards, I know the int bonuse, so I can re-figure now.  If not, it'll have to wait until tonight.




Rogues 8/level
Wizard 2/level

You can always use the SRD for these types of questions, too. Hell, I hardly ever used my PHB anymore.


----------



## kinem (Apr 29, 2008)

Regarding the spirit jaws:

A grappled creature can move with the jaws by making an opposed grapple check, as always when in a grapple.  That is the only way they can move, since the spell provides no movement rate for them.

That is not the only way to interpret it, since as I said it is unclear from the spell description; however, it would be very overpowered to allow the jaws to chase the target around even if he managed to escape.  I think it's still overpowered even with my interpretation.

Evard's Black Tentacles is a 4th level wizard spell, often considered overpowered, and while it can affect multiple opponents it is confined to a small area.  Other limitations of BT are that it can't attack flying foes and that your allies must also avoid the area.  And while BT has a higher grapple check, it only attacks once per round and deals less damage.  I don't think a 3rd level druid spell should be Black Tentacles on super-steroids even vs. one foe.


----------



## Leif (Apr 29, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> It is very confusing. And that is the worst thing about reallocating skill points, is you almost have to go back and rebuild the skills from scratch. I used to make these kind of mistakes a lot when I first started playing 3.X...I've built hundreds of PCs since then, though (unfortunately, most of them haven't found homes in games.)



So... did I get it right this time?


----------



## Rhun (Apr 29, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> So... did I get it right this time?




Nope! LOL. This time you really cut Bevin short! 

Here is what you have right now:



			
				Lief said:
			
		

> - Climb +5 (2 ranks, +1 str, +2 climber's kit)
> - Concentration +11 (9 ranks, +2 con)
> - Disable Device +7 (2 ranks, +3 dex, +2 m/w tools)
> - Hide +5 (2 ranks, +3 dex)
> ...




Here is something that actually uses all your skills points:

55 rogue + 30 wizard
- Balance +8 (5 ranks, +3 dex)
- Climb +8 (5 rogue ranks, +1 str, +2 climber's kit)
- Concentration +13 (11 wizard ranks, +2 con)
- Disable Device +10 (5 ranks, +3 dex, +2 m/w tools)
- Hide +8 (5 ranks, +3 dex)
- Knowledge (Arcana) +14 (9 wizard ranks, +3 int, +2 Skill Focus feat)
- Move Silently +8 (5 ranks, +3 dex)
- Open Locks +10 (5 ranks, +3 dex, +2 m/w tools)
- Sleight of Hand +8 (5 ranks, +3 dex)
- Spellcraft +15 general (10 wizard ranks, +3 int, +2 Magical Aptitude feat), 
------- +14 for checks regarding School of Enchantment (specialty school)
------- +7 for checks regarding Schools of Abjuration and Transmutation (prohibited schools)
- Spot +5 (5 ranks, +0 wis)
- Listen +5 (5 ranks, +0 wis)
- Tumble +8 (5 ranks, +3 dex)
- Gather Information +4 (5 ranks, -1 cha)

Obviously, you can adjust a few of those around. And you could use wizard skill points to boost some of your rogue skills, but you'd have to pay 2 skill points per rank.


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 29, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> [sblock]Regarding the spirit jaws:
> 
> A grappled creature can move with the jaws by making an opposed grapple check, as always when in a grapple.  That is the only way they can move, since the spell provides no movement rate for them.
> 
> ...




Your call, but Spiriual Waeapon  has no movement score, too.

Black tentacles has a 20ft radius spread, not really a small area. And it reduces the movement speed in the area by half, too.


----------



## Leif (Apr 29, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> Nope! LOL. This time you really cut Bevin short!
> 
> Here is what you have right now:
> Here is something that actually uses all your skills points:
> ...



Well, I KNOW yours is wrong, because you list me at -8(!) for my prohibited schools for Spellcraft!!  I'll just start all over again tonight after work, and we'll let the DM decide after that.


----------



## Rhun (Apr 29, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> Well, I KNOW yours is wrong, because you list me at -8(!) for my prohibited schools for Spellcraft!!  I'll just start all over again tonight after work, and we'll let the DM decide after that.





Actually, I just recalaculated, and mine is dead on as far as ranks spent at each level go. Not sure about all of your modifiers, though, especially for the prohibited schools. I've only played a specialist wizard once.


----------



## Leif (Apr 29, 2008)

Whatever, man.  I'll do it all again tonight and leave it to kinem to judge after that.


----------



## Rhun (Apr 29, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> Whatever, man.  I'll do it all again tonight and leave it to kinem to judge after that.




No problem. I was just trying to help out.


----------



## Leif (Apr 29, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> No problem. I was just trying to help out.



I know!  THANKS!  Like I said, I'm none to experienced with 3.5, anway....


----------



## Rhun (Apr 29, 2008)

I'll be interested to see 4E when it is released; if they made some headway in making things less complicated, I may actually pick up a copy.


----------



## Leif (Apr 29, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> I'll be interested to see 4E when it is released; if they made some headway in making things less complicated, I may actually pick up a copy.



I already placed a pre-publication order for 4E in a moment of weakness, but as we draw nearer to the release date for it, I am convinced more and more that my vote will be to stay with 3.5 (through books already published, Paizo, or whatever) until Kingdom Come!


----------



## kinem (Apr 29, 2008)

This may explain some of the problems we've been having.

I think 4e will solve many of the problems of 3rd edition, but will introduce its own problems that are at least as bad.

I would miss the complexity - not the fact that I keep overlooking things, but the fact that there are so many options and interactions.  I'm not sure if it would be a good change or not to simplify it.  It would be good if it lets people concentrate more on other aspects of the game such as tactics and role playing, rather than so much on character building and optimization.  The downside of that is that all characters could start to feel the same.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

I personally must disbelieve the article.. 3 items is way too low.  I've got an extremely bad memory compared to most of the people I know (friends family, even co-workers) and even I can reliably remember more than 3 things..  And their example about the coloured boxes?  What's so hard with remembering "red blue green orange teal purple brown" in that order?  Or a string of numbers?  There would have to be something about the test that was not spoken of in the article for me to take it seriously.


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## kinem (Apr 30, 2008)

I tend to believe the article.  I find it easier to remember things I've seen in print, and certainly things with meaning like equations are much easier to remember.  But if someone tells me their name, I'll forget it a few minutes later.  And the color of their shirt?  Heck, I wasn't thinking of that, I was trying to remember the name!  That girl who told me a name was wearing a shirt, wasn't she?  Colors seem easy to forget.

Leif:
Bevin should have 3 standard feats (gained at 1st, 3rd, and 6th level), plus Scribe Scroll, and 1 other bonus wizard feat gained at 5th wizard level = 7th level (metamagic, item creation or spell mastery) and it looks like he is missing the latter.

BTW, summon familiar is not a feat, it's a class feature.

Rhun's proposed skill ranks for Bevin look OK mathematically.  He just forgot to update the special cases of Spellcraft from what was on your sheet.  Spellcraft would be:

- Spellcraft +15 general (10 wizard ranks, +3 int, +2 Magical Aptitude feat), 
------- +17 for checks regarding School of Enchantment (specialty school)
------- +10 for checks regarding Schools of Abjuration and Transmutation (prohibited schools)


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## Leif (Apr 30, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Leif:
> Bevin should have 3 standard feats (gained at 1st, 3rd, and 6th level), plus Scribe Scroll, and 1 other bonus wizard feat gained at 5th wizard level = 7th level (metamagic, item creation or spell mastery) and it looks like he is missing the latter.
> BTW, summon familiar is not a feat, it's a class feature.



Sunuvagun, you're right!  (But you knew that, didn't you? hehe)
Looks like I've got some feats to pick!  I'll get right on that, believe me!
Bevin took Extend Spell, but he will wait until "tomorrow" to begin using it, after all, that's only fair, right?


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## kinem (May 1, 2008)

Fine by me.

WD, note that I allowed you to throw one flame last round.

BTW, the SRD says:

"Incorporeal creatures cannot make trip or grapple attacks, nor can they be tripped or grappled."

I didn't realize that at the time; instead I figured that a force effect would be able to grapple them.  Oh well, my bad.  Chalk up the monster's inaction and attempts to "escape" as it just being confused by the unknown spell.  It won't happen again.  This doesn't alter my opinion that the spell would be overpowered if the jaws could chase a victim, particularly vs. a spellcaster.

This first real combat of the game has certainly brought to light a few points for more than one of us, but now all that has been ironed out  I hope


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## Walking Dad (May 1, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Fine by me.
> 
> WD, note that I allowed you to throw one flame last round.
> 
> ...




SRD
_Corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal creatures._

This is no creature and force transcendences incorporability. But I can live with your judgement (but will not prepare spirit jaws again)

BTW: Thanks for your Produce Flames ruling


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## kinem (May 1, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> _Corporeal creatures cannot trip or grapple incorporeal creatures._
> 
> This is no creature and force transcendences incorporability.




That's exactly what I thought, until I actually read the SRD:

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/typesSubtypes.htm#incorporealSubtype

4th sentence of 4th paragraph under "Incorporeal Subtype".  No exceptions.

You will also notice that all incorporeal creatures have "-" listed as their grapple bonus.

Thus it is strictly impossible for any spell or effect to grapple them.  That is no house rule, it is RAW and is spelled out clearly unlike many things in D&D.



> will not prepare spirit jaws again




Your call, but I still think it's a powerful spell.

BTW, attacking with Produce Flame is an attack action, not a standard action.  That means you can use iterative attacks.


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## Leif (May 1, 2008)

*Just an opinion.....*

Wd, srd specifically says that incorporeal creatures can be harmed by magic weapons!

"An incorporeal creature has no physical body. It can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons or creatures that strike as magic weapons, and spells, spell-like abilities, or supernatural abilities. It is immune to all nonmagical attack forms."

_Spirit Jaws_ is the very definition of a magical weapon: something created by magic that inflicts damage, so it should be able to harm incorporeal creatures, right?  Plus it specifically says SPELLS!!


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## kinem (May 1, 2008)

Right, Leif, though it's a spell not a weapon.  The spell _can_ most certainly cause damage to incorporeal foes.  It _cannot_ grapple them.


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## Leif (May 1, 2008)

Grapple?  Oh, yeah!  this whole thing was started because of a question about grappling, wasn't it?  In that case, I'll just butt the heck out!   Never mind!


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## Leif (May 1, 2008)

My apologies for posting out of turn.  I thought it was our turn -- I blame  a time warp.


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## Walking Dad (May 1, 2008)

I'm sorry, I for one hope that this damn thing "dies". Girgal prefers opponents that bleed.


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## Rhun (May 1, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, I for one hope that this damn thing "dies". Girgal prefers opponents that bleed.





Aram too, since his build is mostly useless against critters not susceptible to sneak attack.


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## kinem (May 1, 2008)

I don't blame you 

Like I said, it started this round with a total of 2 hp left.  Maybe it wants to become The Monster That Would Not Die.

Of course, this battle is basically a race against time to kill it before it kills the other NPC.

Besides, your PCs should be afraid of it - it's a freaky, tough monster!


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## Leif (May 1, 2008)

Good to know that I'm doing just what the DM wants!!

AH'M SKEEEERED!!!


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## Rhun (May 1, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Besides, your PCs should be afraid of it - it's a freaky, tough monster!




Nothing worse than a critter that does ability damage.


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## Jemal (May 2, 2008)

Sigh... where's magic missile when ya need it?


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

I was thinking the same thing today, Jemal!

Bevin didn't take that spell, because I thougt it was important for him to be "different" from my usual wizard.


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## Jemal (May 2, 2008)

*L* Good thing for the DM I didn't go with my other idea for this campaign - A force mage.


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## Rhun (May 2, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> Bevin didn't take that spell, because I thougt it was important for him to be "different" from my usual wizard.




There is a reason that certain spells end up on EVERY wizard's spell list, though. Some of them are old standbys that are useful in a myriad of circumstances.


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

Rhun,  I suppose you're right, but I made a conscious decision that Bevin wasn't going to be like EVERY other wizard.  Oh, and take a look at Bevin's skills now.  I re-did them AGAIN, and I hope I got pretty close to right this time.

Jemal, you SHOULD have played an Argent Savant!  They are sooo coooool!!  Why is the DM glad that you didn't play one?


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## Rhun (May 2, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> Rhun,  I suppose you're right, but I made a conscious decision that Bevin wasn't going to be like EVERY other wizard.  Oh, and take a look at Bevin's skills now.  I re-did them AGAIN, and I hope I got pretty close to right this time.




I still think you should look into qualifying for Arcane Trickster if we gain any levels during the coarse of the advenutre, though. I think it would fit Bevin really well.


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> I still think you should look into qualifying for Arcane Trickster if we gain any levels during the coarse of the advenutre, though. I think it would fit Bevin really well.



I checked it out.  It'll take me a couple of levels to get the skills necessary, I think, and my sneak attack has to be at least 2d6, anyway, so it's a ways off for me, but it's something to think about.


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## Jemal (May 2, 2008)

> Jemal, you SHOULD have played an Argent Savant! They are sooo coooool!! Why is the DM glad that you didn't play one?



cuz I'da one-shot that thing.


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> cuz I'da one-shot that thing.



then you DEFINITELY shoulda played one!!  I was about ready to pack it in before that thing finally bit the big one!


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## Jemal (May 2, 2008)

aye, but one-shot characters can cause head-aches for DM's, and make some battles rather anti-climactic.  Think of it, now you'll always remember that creepy incorporeal thing that almost killed you.  The other way, it'd be "Oh something appeared and Jemal killed it".  Not as much fun.


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

Hey, as long as I still get a share of the experience and treasure, who am I to complain?   Awww, at least let me TRY it once and see if I like it?


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## renau1g (May 2, 2008)

Yeah, well I think Rajah was just as ineffective, although I think it was IC who decided he shouldn't have a big part in the battle.


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## Rhun (May 2, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> The other way, it'd be "Oh something appeared and Jemal killed it".  Not as much fun.




Wait, didn't Jemal's PC only score a single hit on it?


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Yeah, well I think Rajah was just as ineffective, although I think it was IC who decided he shouldn't have a big part in the battle.



Very true.  There were plenty of bad rolls to go around several times, weren't there?


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## Jemal (May 2, 2008)

and teleported the bishop to safety.
And spotted the thing in the first place.
So nyah


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## Walking Dad (May 2, 2008)

Perhaps my single force spell was effective. Perhaps I should prepare it the next time, too.

Hey, anybody interested in a lesser restoration spell? Girgal has some healing capabilities


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## Leif (May 2, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> Perhaps my single force spell was effective. Perhaps I should prepare it the next time, too.



DEFINITELY!!  Prepare it two or three times.


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## Rhun (May 2, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> and teleported the bishop to safety.




Safety is a relative word, since the creature was back at the bishop the next round! LOL.


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## Rhun (May 2, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> Hey, anybody interested in a lesser restoration spell? Girgal has some healing capabilities




If we are going to be fighting many more 'souleaters', having this spell prepared may not be a bad idea.


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## Leif (May 6, 2008)

[sblock=renau1g]did I cause you to have second thoughts about joining my game with my snippy comments?  Sorry about that, it had been a very trying day... :"> [/sblock]


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## Walking Dad (May 7, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> If we are going to be fighting many more 'souleaters', having this spell prepared may not be a bad idea.



Regarding "Souleaters":


> ...realized that the thing they fought was a soul eater, a creature of shadow summoned by a mage to track and slay a specific creature. Worse yet, the soul eater tears secrets from its victim.




This is from Mike Mearls
http://forums.gleemax.com/showpost.php?p=15761625&postcount=5


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## Rhun (May 7, 2008)

I'd expect a creature that tears secrets from its victims to do Intelligence damage, though, not Wisdom. I've always associated Wisdom with awareness, perception and will. Intelligence represents knowledge.


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## Leif (May 7, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> I'd expect a creature that tears secrets from its victims to do Intelligence damage, though, not Wisdom. I've always associated Wisdom with awareness, perception and will. Intelligence represents knowledge.



Maybe the wis damage is a reflection of how unwise it is to get close to such a beastie?


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## Walking Dad (May 7, 2008)

Uhm, this is NOT our souleater, I think. Perhaps Mearls just likes X4? Or ours is a kinem orginal (kinem, you aren't Mearls, or?)


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## kinem (May 8, 2008)

I'm certainly not 

Good to see that this classic monster from X4 has been included in 4th edition.

The one you fought was indeed my own conversion of it.  It does Wisdom damage because that's what the original did.  Something that does Intelligence damage would be overpowered because many powerful monsters have low Intelligence, but you won't find many that have extra-low Wisdom (except for constructs and they are immune to ability damage).

Tearing secrets from the victim is new, but I like the sound of it and may have to include it in my version.

The main thing though that made it a "soul eater" is that it can 'eat' souls and make ressurection of the victim impossible.  I suspect that ability has been removed from the 4e version and replaced by the 'tearing out of secrets'.


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## kinem (May 8, 2008)

renau1g, please provide the description of "Burning Blood" from the SpC.  It seems to have been changed since the version on crystalkeep.


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## renau1g (May 8, 2008)

[sblock=Kinem]
BURNING
BLOOD
Necromancy
Le vel: Sorcerer/
wizard 4
Components: V, S, M
Ca sting Time: 1
standard action
Range: Medium (100 ft. + 10 ft./level)
Target: One living creature; see text
Duration: 1 round/level (D)
Saving Throw: Fortitude partial;
see text
Spell Resistance: Yes
The taste of copper fills your mouth and
bloody spatters punctuate the last few words
that unlock the spell. You gag slightly as the
blood in your mouth congeals, but disappears
even as you release the spell.
You taint a living creature’s blood with
a hot, corrosive infusion, dealing 1d8
points of acid damage and 1d8 points
of fire damage per round. The subject
to negate the damage, but a successful
save does not prevent damage in future
rounds. Searing pain limits the subject
to a single move action in any round
when it fails its Fortitude save.
Burning blood does not affect creatures
of the construct, elemental, ooze,
plant, or undead types.
Material Component: A drop of blood
and a pinch of saltpeter.
[/sblock]


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## kinem (May 8, 2008)

renau1g: OK.  BTW, Rajah is 8th level.


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## renau1g (May 13, 2008)

WalkingDad - I thought IC hated Rajah, but it looks like it's not too fond of Girgil


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## Walking Dad (May 13, 2008)

Girgal seems fine, but IC really hates Ripclaw.


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## Walking Dad (May 15, 2008)

Bevin should know, that you can use_ read magic _to identify scrolls.


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## Leif (May 15, 2008)

I"m sure that BEVIN does know that.  LEIF, however, wasn't thinking clearly.  Anyway, Bevin does not have _Read Magic_ memorized for today.  Tomorrow, however, is another matter entirely!

Anyway, I think it's just COOL to do it with no spells, no tools, nothing but your eyes and your brain!  Still, a spell will be in order for tomorrow, for sure.  Thanks.


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## kinem (May 16, 2008)

renau1g, please provide a breakdown of what the values of your black onyx gems are.  That's because you need a single gem of the minimum value or more to animate an undead based on its hit dice.  In general you will not always have one of exactly the minimum value so you will have to waste a larger one, and it forces you to decide up front if you want many small ones or a few large ones.


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## renau1g (May 16, 2008)

Ahhh.... I see, I thought you just put enough to equal the Hit Die. I've updated my sheet:

1 x 250
3 x 225
3 x 200 
3 x 175
2 x 150

Note: If I was to cast the spell with a lower than required gem does it become useless? I think the spell would be wasted.


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## kinem (May 16, 2008)

If the value was lower than required the spell would be wasted but the gem would remain intact.


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## renau1g (May 16, 2008)

Gotcha. Thanks.


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## kinem (May 19, 2008)

Unless I see a post otherwise in the next few hours, I will have to assume that Bevin and Girgal will approach the tent on land.

BTW I will be OOT Thurs 5/22 - Sun 5/25.


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## kinem (May 28, 2008)

I'm just waiting for a bit more info on the plan.  With the boat grounded on one side, Aram, Rajah, and Girgal (in animal form) will introduce themselves.

That basically leaves 2 questions: What form will Girgal take, and which side of the river will the group go to?


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## Leif (May 29, 2008)

Baaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!!!!!


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## Walking Dad (May 31, 2008)

I don't think that seperating Ripclaw and Girgal is a smart move...

Why is one animal allowed in the human camp and the other don't?

Just asking. Very cool game sofar


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## kinem (May 31, 2008)

Thanks 

The humans recognize a wolf and aren't too afraid of it.  It is 'normal' for them.  Ripclaw, on the other hand, looks like a monster to them - they have never seen his kind before and he has large claws - and thus they relegate him to the 'monster' camp.

BTW, where is the troll skeleton?  Unless informed otherwise I will assume it stayed with the raft and thus is known about by the enemy troops.


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## renau1g (May 31, 2008)

Rajah would leave both the troll & warhorse skeletons back by the raft, with orders to defend the raft. We can't have those pesky humans scuttling our boat can we?


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## kinem (Jun 1, 2008)

Leif, just one problem - Aram is on the other side of the river, in the human camp.  Bevin, Nargon, and Ripclaw are in the orc/bugbear camp with the 3 leaders who are speaking to you.


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## Leif (Jun 2, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Leif, just one problem - Aram is on the other side of the river, in the human camp.  Bevin, Nargon, and Ripclaw are in the orc/bugbear camp with the 3 leaders who are speaking to you.



Oh, yeah!  Oooops, sorry, I'll edit my previous post.

[sblock=Heads up, Jemal!]My edit will involve Nargon, btw.[/sblock]


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## kinem (Jun 2, 2008)

We're about ready to move on.

Should I assume you guys will just continue to play along and go on your way in the morning, or do you wish to try anything different?


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## Rhun (Jun 2, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Should I assume you guys will just continue to play along and go on your way in the morning, or do you wish to try anything different?




Aram will continue his stories until it is time for bed, and hopefully in the morning the Captain will show them the way to the Master. We will have to arrange our own watch.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 2, 2008)

I'm ok with playing along.


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## Jemal (Jun 2, 2008)

Playing along works with me.


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## Leif (Jun 3, 2008)

*Bevin Rockhammer, Rogue2/Enchanter6, hp 44/44, AC20FF17T15*

Bevin will stay as close to Nargon as possible.  He probably won't sleep much, if any, trying to keep an eye on these villains for as long as possible.


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## kinem (Jun 11, 2008)

Since your PCs have plenty of time to talk, you can discuss possible courses of action OOC.  If you don't do anything, you can just have them wait to see what happens on this night.

Unless I miscalulated, the party has about 3 days worth of food and water left in your supplies on the raft.  (You started with 7 days worth; spent 3 days on the river and 2 in the swamp, but got dinner from the enemy camp once.)

For my 3.5 conversion, I nerfed this encounter a bit compared to the module.


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## Rhun (Jun 11, 2008)

Aram has a _ring of sustenance_, so he shouldn't need food or water, which means more for the others.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 11, 2008)

Same for Girgal and Ripclaw.


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## renau1g (Jun 11, 2008)

Poor Rajah, in three days, Aram & Girgal can pick his body clean


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## kinem (Jun 14, 2008)

Just giving a heads-up: I will be out of town (and offline) Weds. 6/18 - Mon. 6/23.

I take it that the current plan is to demolish the hut, then have Skelete dig in the mud under it, then you will try to leave the area again.  Let me know if there are any objections.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 14, 2008)

Sounds good to me.


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## Leif (Jun 14, 2008)

*Bevin*

Bevin is not entirely convinced that this will help.  If we demolish the hut we may still be trapped, only without any shelter!  Still, Bevin will go along with the group if that's our collective decision.


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## Jemal (Jun 14, 2008)

Nargon was actually just blasting the hut initially to see if anything happened (Hut was immune, repaired itself, someone/thing appeared to stop us, etc).  Now I'm thinking we try to let the skeleton dig first and if that fails to turn anything up we blow it up.


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## Leif (Jun 15, 2008)

Sounds like a plan to Bevin!


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## kinem (Jun 16, 2008)

I don't want to give away more than I should but you might want to scan your character sheets for anything you might have forgotten that could somehow fit.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 16, 2008)

Didn't we get something after the lifedrinker fight?


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## Leif (Jun 16, 2008)

*Bevin Rockhammer, Rogue2/Enchanter6, hp 44/44, AC20FF17T15*

OOC:  The only thing I saw on Bevin's sheet that looks even remotely close is the pouch of Dispel Evil Powder that we got from Sergeant Sarras.  But we don't have anything to dispel, I doubt if we can dispel the entire swamp!


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> I don't want to give away more than I should but you might want to scan your character sheets for anything you might have forgotten that could somehow fit.





AHA!

I noticed this on Bevin's sheet: 

----- Pouch of Dispel Evil powder (gift from Sergeant Sarras)

Sounds worth a try to me!


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2008)

Leif said:
			
		

> OOC:  The only thing I saw on Bevin's sheet that lookds even remotely close is the pouch of Dispel Evil Powder that we got from Sergeant Sarras.  But we don't have anything to dispel, I doubt if we can dispel the entire swamp!





Great minds think alike, and post at the same time apparently. We could try it on the discolored ooze under the hut...the voice spoke to us when it was disturbed.


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## Leif (Jun 16, 2008)

What?  isn't the hut on stilts in the swamp?  You want us to use the powder underwater?  Why not just try to dispel the hut itself?
*shrug* but maybe you're right.... **double shrug**


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## Rhun (Jun 16, 2008)

You guys kinda blasted the hut to kindling, remember? Plus, we didn't get any response until the mud was disturbed. And it looks different. Everything kinda points to the mud.


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## Leif (Jun 16, 2008)

Rhun said:
			
		

> You guys kinda blasted the hut to kindling, remember? Plus, we didn't get any response until the mud was disturbed. And it looks different. Everything kinda points to the mud.



"YOU GUYS"????  Bevin was totally innocent in that destruction.  He was a mere spectator.  But, ok, the mud it is then.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 16, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> Didn't we get something after the lifedrinker fight?



Just to say that we got three great minds


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## Leif (Jun 16, 2008)

Dad, are you really sure that you want to lower yourself to our level??!!  It was your post that started the thoughts along these lines, but Rhun and I still couldn't make the connection until the DM gave us a Hint for the Mentally Impaired.


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## kinem (Jun 17, 2008)

Actually the hut was still mostly intact; Nargon just blasted a hole in the wall.

You were supposed to use the spell on the hut, but the green mud works too, so I allowed it.  The module says "In the ooze under the house lives an evil influence. It is not a monster, but an evil force."  So I added the greenish mud as flavor text 

It is not uncommon to find magical traps in the old modules that can only be overcome with exactly the right spell.  The writer of this module was generous - _teleport_ would have worked too


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## Rhun (Jun 17, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> It is not uncommon to find magical traps in the old modules that can only be overcome with exactly the right spell.  The writer of this module was generous - _teleport_ would have worked too




LOL. I remember the old modules. They could definitely be rough with some of the magical traps. Of course, _Dispel Evil_ is a higher level spell that our level of character, even if we had a true cleric. LOL. I'm glad you gave us the dust!


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## Walking Dad (Jun 17, 2008)

tree stride is only one level away...


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## kinem (Jun 18, 2008)

Yes, but contrary to Rhun's _Princess Bride_ reference, there were no actual trees near the swamp hut.

Will Girgal change his spell selection for subsequent days?

Assume that on an average day in this terrain it is very hot for about 4 hours, requiring 4 Fort saves to avoid taking 1d4 nonlethal damage each.

If you find shelter in a crevice instead of travelling you can avoid the need for the saves.

I assume that the native people must use tents to shield themselves during the hot hours.

Coming next week ... you may join a large caravan with nearly a hundred camels ... and yes, there will be combat!


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## Rhun (Jun 18, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> Yes, but contrary to Rhun's _Princess Bride_ reference, there were no actual trees near the swamp hut.




I kinda figured, but I just had to throw it out. I'm glad somebody picked up on it. 



			
				kinem said:
			
		

> Assume that on an average day in this terrain it is very hot for about 4 hours, requiring 4 Fort saves to avoid taking 1d4 nonlethal damage each.
> 
> If you find shelter in a crevice instead of travelling you can avoid the need for the saves.
> 
> I assume that the native people must use tents to shield themselves during the hot hours.




Althought Aram cannot see in the dark, he is fine with travelling at night if it helps us avoid heat damage.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 18, 2008)

kinem said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> Will Girgal change his spell selection for subsequent days?
> 
> ...



He will use the spell selection posted in the IC thread.


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## Jemal (Jun 18, 2008)

Nargon's perfectly fine with nightime travel.. in fact, he prefers it, being able to see better than most creatures (including dragons!) in the dark.  Since he's not too good at withstanding such extremes (fort +3), he'd vote for staying out of the sun durin it's peak.


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## Leif (Jun 18, 2008)

Bevin also votes for nighttime travel with the days being spent in the best shade available, preferably near an outlet to plug in our +4 window airconditioners!   If only we had windows to put them in.....

(sorry I missed "The Princess Bride" reference, Rhun!)


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## Walking Dad (Jun 18, 2008)

If it is possible to avoid the saves altogether, Girgal will change his spell list back to standard (on his sheet). And votes for night travel.


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## renau1g (Jun 18, 2008)

The night is the right time.... after all


----------



## Rhun (Jun 18, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> The night is the right time.... after all




Long live the Beast!


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## Leif (Jun 18, 2008)

Honestly, how could we wizards have been expected to have a spell prepared to protect the group from the sun??  I mean, it's not like the word "DESERT" is right there in the title of the campaign, or anything!

Naturally, I just ASSUMED that the other two wizards would take care of these basic needs, so I didn't want my spells to be dupicative.  Or something like that, anyway.

FYI:  I'll be out of town and unable to post from this Sunday evening until Tuesday night.


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## kinem (Jul 3, 2008)

I'll update IC tonight.

This is going to be a difficult encounter in more ways than one so I have to figure out how to deal with it.

Let me put it this way, and I am just throwing some numbers out here so don't assume anything about the current encounter from this, but suppose there are 100 CR 1 creatures.  That would be an ECL 14 encounter ... not something an 8th level party could likely deal with, right?

Mass combat, surprisingly, was not uncommon in old BECMI modules.

I think that there were 2 assumptions in those days that are not necessarily valid in the current situation: 1) The party would tend to blend in with humanoid allies so as not to draw concentrated fire, and 2) all arcane spellcasters were single-classed wizards who would tend to have area effect spells prepared.


----------



## Leif (Jul 3, 2008)

*Bevin's Dilemma*

[sblock=DM Kinem]Bevin's spell selection has once again proven to be of very little use to the party in the hour of their greatest need.  And, really, the whole "enchanter" deal isn't working out like I had hoped that it might. *sigh*  Would you consider letting me do a Character Re-Build as per phII rules to move him from an Enchanter to an Evoker so that he could have  some more useful spells?  Assuming, that is, that he survives the current encounter.  But, then again, it might be easier to have him not survive and then start from scratch with a whole new dude.[/sblock]


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## Rhun (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, theoretically, CR1s will only be able to hit Aram on a natural 20. And since only 8 creatures can surround and attack at one time (assuming no ranged attacks, which is probably a bad assumption), he should only suffer 1 hit every 2 to3 rounds, while being able to slay 2-3 enemies per round. I'm not sure how that adds up in the grand scheme of things, but I wanted to at least point it out.


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## Leif (Jul 3, 2008)

OOC:  Don't forget, Rhun, that at least three of those eight will be atacking from flanking positions and so will probably need less than a nat 20, won't they?  Or does Aram have some Dervish voodoo that prevents him from being flanked?


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## Rhun (Jul 3, 2008)

Leif said:


> OOC:  Don't forget, Rhun, that at least three of those eight will be atacking from flanking positions and so will probably need less than a nat 20, won't they?  Or does Aram have some Dervish voodoo that prevents him from being flanked?




No, but his AC is 25. I'm not sure what the enemy's attack bonus is, but if they are 1st Level Warrior, it shouldn't be higher than +4 (+1 BAB, +1 WF, +2 Str)...which would mean they'd need a 19 to hit with flanking. 1 point of combat expertise should fix that.


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## Rhun (Jul 3, 2008)

This is also purely a metagaming exercise; I could be completely off. Maybe they are all 1st level desert wizards! In that case, magic missile is going to suck.


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## Leif (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, I hope for your sake that they are every bit as wimpy as you are assuming that they are.


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## Rhun (Jul 3, 2008)

Leif said:


> Well, I hope for your sake that they are every bit as wimpy as you are assuming that they are.





Shouldn't that read for *OUR* sake?


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## Leif (Jul 3, 2008)

Uhhh, yepper.  Guess it should at that.


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## kinem (Jul 4, 2008)

Leif: I think Bevin's fine the way he is, and is one of the more fun characters too.  I know PBP goes slowly but really there have only been a few battles so far; there will be chances for him to be very effective, perhaps even in the current battle.

He's multiclassed, which is not a way to maximize raw power, but this is a roleplaying game not a tactical combat game.  In the end, he's an effective character if he helps people enjoy the game.

That said, now to kick some PC posterio... I mean, now to post on the IC thread


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## Jemal (Jul 4, 2008)

Kinem - Dealing with Mass unit Combat is always tricky.  It's suggested not to do a straight up CR conversion for more than 16 creatures, b/c of the vast difference between power level/actions of the party, and power level/actions of the army.  AN army of 100 has 100 actions, whereas we have 5 or 6.  (Forgot how many PCs there are...) 
That's 20 to 1 odds.
HOWEVER, their odds of hitting/damaging/killing us are much lower.  
I'd say just see how the battle goes, and then decide how much XP you want to give afterwards.  I don't think 8th level characters (With possible backup arriving from the caravan) will have too much trouble with a hundred. 

I'm not too worried about Nargon.. he may only have an 18 AC but with DR 2/Cold Iron (Doubtful they've got cold iron weapons), flight, and ranged/reach attacks, he should be ok.  Just wish I'd taken cleave.


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## Leif (Jul 4, 2008)

kinem said:


> Leif: I think Bevin's fine the way he is, and is one of the more fun characters too.  I know PBP goes slowly but really there have only been a few battles so far; there will be chances for him to be very effective, perhaps even in the current battle.
> 
> He's multiclassed, which is not a way to maximize raw power, but this is a roleplaying game not a tactical combat game.  In the end, he's an effective character if he helps people enjoy the game.
> 
> That said, now to kick some PC posterio... I mean, now to post on the IC thread



 Gee, thanks for the compliment.  I don't regret my choice of class or race so much.  I just wish that I had made a different selection for his Specialty School of Magic, somewhat, and, PRIMARILY, the spells in his Spelbook.  (I thought that I was being .... ummm .... I don't even know what I was thinking.  I mainly wanted him to have spells that are not what I usually choose for my wizards.  I suceeded too well in that aim!  I already can't even count the times I've wished for a good _Magic Missile_!)


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## kinem (Jul 4, 2008)

Walking Dad:

Please provide more info about your wild shape form.  It is not in the MM or on your character sheet.

Don't forget that you are limited to forms with Hit Dice of your level (8) or less, and up to Large size.  I'm not sure what '3 horn' you had in mind but a triceratops is obviously off limits for both reasons.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 4, 2008)

The stats are attached. It is basically a smaller variant (cave) of the ankylosaurus. There is also one of the triceratops.

(It is from the miniatures handbook)


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## kinem (Jul 5, 2008)

OK.  WD, I assume you will wildshape while the riders are still far away.

I think renau1g will return on Monday.  I want to see what Rajah will do before advancing the IC, because he has some spells with relatively long range and he also controls the troll skeleton and of course the quasit.


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## kinem (Jul 9, 2008)

I'm soliciting opinions on something because it's not clear to me what the RAW intends:

The allip's babble description says "All sane creatures within 60 feet of the allip must succeed on a DC 16 Will save or be affected as though by a hypnotism spell ..."

Does this mean
1) Just like the actual spell, the maximum total HD affected is 2d4

or

2) The effect resembles that of the spell, but the spell's HD limit is not relevant

or

3) Each creature is affected as though by the spell, so the limit is 2d4 HD for each creature in range seperately?

I made up the map assuming #2, but on second thought #1 is probably correct so I should change it.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 9, 2008)

Girgal is large in this form. He should occupy 4 squares on the map.

@ the allip: I don't think Rahja would summon it, if it endangers us more than the raiders...


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## kinem (Jul 9, 2008)

WD: The map scale is 20'/sq


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## renau1g (Jul 9, 2008)

My thoughts are #2 as well kinem, especially because the spell to summon it requires the character to be level 7 or 8 (I forget off-hand), which would make that power useless. 

Also it says *all* sane creatures are affected by the power so I'd take that to be regardless of HD.

My two coppers.


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## Rhun (Jul 9, 2008)

Based purely off reading the ability, I'd rule #2 also.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 9, 2008)

kinem said:


> WD: The map scale is 20'/sq



Oops...


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## Leif (Jul 9, 2008)

I agree with Walking Dad that Rajah's Summoned Creature should not pose more danger to us than to our foes.  And, also, IMHO, if the monster's ability had a higher hd limit than the spell (or no hd limit), then the description in the MM would have said so explicitly.  Since it referred to the spell, I believe that all the aspects of the spell that weren't specifically overridden should still apply.


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## kinem (Jul 9, 2008)

So we apparently have 2 votes each for #1 and #2.

I am going to go with interpretation #1.   I think #2 would be overpowered for a 4th level spell.  Remember, it works both ways - you have already encountered one enemy spellcaster ...


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## Jemal (Jul 10, 2008)

I believe it's #3, b/c it DOES say ALL, but it also says "As the Spell", without stating an increased HD cap, meaning it would affect each creature as if the Hypnotism spell had been cast specifically on that creature.
But i think my post comes a bit late. 

sry btw, been having.. happenings... lately (And no that isn't a reference to the recent movie (Which I hear is horrible))


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## kinem (Jul 22, 2008)

Jemal, I'm still waiting for you to post.

Nargon has a good chance to drop the enemy leader this turn, so I'd hate to step in and act for him, but I want to keep things moving so I will act tomorrow evening if need be.


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## kinem (Jul 23, 2008)

With Walking Dad and Rhun set to travel, and Jemal being under the weather and not being able to post recently, I wonder if we shouldn't officially take a break for a week or two and then re-start.

What do you think?

---------------------------------------------------------------------

As for the game itself, the current combat is nearing the end.  A couple of PCs can't take much more of a beating, but neither can the enemy leader.  He is not going to try to run because he thinks he would be pursued and he would lose face in the eyes of his men, who would desert him.

After the battle there will be some RP and other events for which having Rhun around would be a good idea.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 23, 2008)

Hm, vacation and don't miss a thing 

I'm in. 

But I'm also fine if you NPC Girgal as long as I'm away.

Next action he will use max charges of his healing belt and then wildshape again (regaining HP from the later, too).


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## Leif (Jul 23, 2008)

a hiatus suit me just fine, as does continued play.  Whatever works for the DM.


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## Rhun (Jul 24, 2008)

Whatever works best...my vacations don't slow me down too much. I (obviously) still find some time to post.


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## renau1g (Jul 24, 2008)

I'm good either way.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 24, 2008)

My chance for getting online access in my vacation are next to nothing


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## kinem (Jul 25, 2008)

Since the boards seem to be working OK now and Rhun can post, we might as well continue while Walking Dad has his fun the old fashioned way.


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## Leif (Jul 25, 2008)

hear! hear!  Maybe we were too hasty when we considered abondoning enworld?


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## kinem (Jul 25, 2008)

Unfortunately the boards are still having intermittent problems.

Everyone remember to Copy your posts before submitting a reply, so that when the page fails to load, you don't lose what you wrote.


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## Jemal (Jul 26, 2008)

> (ooc: Jemal, in order to deal nonlethal damage, you'd have to use a blunt weapon.)



Is this a house rule?  I've never read anything to that effect.  Any attack can be transformed into nonlethal by taking the -4 penalty to attack for placing your blow where it wouldn't kill. (Such as shooting someone in the shoulder or foot, smacking them with the side of the blade, etc)


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## renau1g (Jul 26, 2008)

I believe he's correct:

Per the SRD:
Nonlethal Damage with a Weapon that Deals Lethal Damage
You can use a melee weapon that deals lethal damage to deal nonlethal damage instead, but you take a -4 penalty on your attack roll. 

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/combat/injuryandDeath.htm


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## kinem (Jul 26, 2008)

You know, I was sure, but you're right - the SRD doesn't say anything about it.  It must be just a house rule from the face-to-face game I play in that I've gotten used to.

It does make sense to me that you would need a blunt weapon - shooting someone in the shoulder is not nonlethal damage, it's just hp damage that is not sufficient to render the target unconscious - but since I'm trying to keep this game light on house rules, I'll edit the IC.


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## renau1g (Jul 26, 2008)

Yeah it's pretty open to interpretation. In my RL game we assume that if it's a rapier (or other piercing weapon) the PC uses the butt end of the weapon... not correct, but it makes more sense to me than swatting someone with the flat of a rapier blade


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## Walking Dad (Aug 4, 2008)

I'm back


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## Leif (Aug 4, 2008)

WB, ambulating padre!  How was your trip and relaxation??


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## Walking Dad (Aug 4, 2008)

Good enough. But we only visited my parents. But the kids enjoyed it.


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## Leif (Aug 4, 2008)

Yeah, that's always a good thing.  Keeps peace in the family from both the younger and the older generations.  And, lest we forget, it's probably a very good way to get all of the good home cooking you want, too!  yum, yum! 

Plus, it's far, far cheaper than a week at a fancy resort somewhere!


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## Walking Dad (Aug 4, 2008)

Exactly.

(But: Don't tell my mom, but I like the cooking of my wife more .

But we had two great barbecue.)


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## Leif (Aug 4, 2008)

*Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh*

Ok, I promise not to tell her.  Wow, that must mean that you are one of the luckiest men on earth!


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## kinem (Aug 12, 2008)

Yikes that construct is tough!  But maybe it's also mindless?  I think the key to this one could be for the PCs to play it smart ...


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## Leif (Oct 8, 2008)

Found a pic today that I like very much for Bevin!!!   (Added to his RG post)

It does't quite match the description that I wrote for him, but I like the pic so much that I want to use it anyway!


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## kinem (Oct 17, 2008)

For those of you who make it to the end of the module, your characters will level up and I plan to continue with X5: Temple of Death.

Rhun, Leif, WD - Right now it looks like it's just the 3 of you playing.  I like seeing the interaction between your PCs.

I would get rid of the XPCs and recruit additional players to round out the party if we go on to the next module.

renau1g, Jemal - what's up?


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## Rhun (Oct 18, 2008)

kinem said:


> For those of you who make it to the end of the module, your characters will level up and I plan to continue with X5: Temple of Death.




Excellent, Mr. Smithers...assuming Aram makes it to the end! 



kinem said:


> Rhun, Leif, WD - Right now it looks like it's just the 3 of you playing.  I like seeing the interaction between your PCs.
> 
> I would get rid of the XPCs and recruit additional players to round out the party if we go on to the next module.




Sounds like a good plan. 



kinem said:


> renau1g, Jemal - what's up?




I haven't seen either of them posting. I am in a game renau1g is DMing, and there hasn't been a post there for at least a week.


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## Leif (Oct 18, 2008)

I'm in a couple of other games with renau1g and he has been similarly absent from them as well.  It's like he dropped off the face of the (EN) World!


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## Walking Dad (Oct 18, 2008)

Jemal is slowly coming back.

Don't know what is up with r1.


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## Jemal (Oct 19, 2008)

slowly catching up on all my backposts so I know what's going on. sry it's taking a few days.


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## Leif (Oct 20, 2008)

Take your time, man.  Better to do it right the first time.


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## Jemal (Oct 29, 2008)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/243998-important-good-bye.html


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## Leif (Oct 29, 2008)

"Alas, poor [Nargon]!  We hardly knew ye!"  - quasi-paraphrase of The Bard, I want to say from Macbeth??  Acutually from Hamlet.  Boy was I wrong! -- 

Hamlet:
Alas, poor Yorick! I knew him, Horatio, a fellow of infinite
jest, of most excellent fancy. He hath borne me on his back a
thousand times, and now how abhorr'd in my imagination it is!
My gorge rises at it.
Hamlet Act 5, scene 1, 179–188


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## kinem (Oct 29, 2008)

With 2 players out I propose that the XPCs be run by other players for the next combat only.  I'll work on removing them after that.

Leif would run Nargon, while Rhun would run Rajah.  WD already has his PC's mount to control, and frankly Bevin and Aram seem a bit less powerful in combat than the others.

How does that seem?  Fair?


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## Walking Dad (Oct 29, 2008)

Will you eventually recruit some new players?

I also don't think Girgal as to powerful. I tried to stay away from most character cheese.


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## kinem (Oct 30, 2008)

Yes, I'll recruit, though I had been planning to wait.  Do you think I should recruit replacement players for the existing XPCs?

BTW, Leif, _if_ Bevin makes it to the next module and levels up, I was thinking I could let you retool him as a single classed Beguiler, if you want.  The beguiler is described at CrystalKeep in the base classes pdf.  It's sort of a roguish spellcaster.

Bevin's history indicates that he didn't start out as a spellcaster, and that background wouldn't change, just his current abilities.

Crystal Keep - D&D and d20 System


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## Rhun (Oct 30, 2008)

kinem said:


> Leif would run Nargon, while Rhun would run Rajah.  WD already has his PC's mount to control, and frankly Bevin and Aram seem a bit less powerful in combat than the others.




I'm fine with this. I didn't design Aram to be super powerful in combat...more lots of attacks and the ability to dance around damage. Unfortunately, I didn't realize what we would be facing, so that tactic hasn't worked great so far. LOL. Still, with the exception of the mass bandit attack, he has managed to do alright.


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## Leif (Oct 30, 2008)

I'm glad to hear that I'm not the only player whose pc hasn't worked out like he planned!  Ok, a few observations:  Rhun is much more skilled than I at running a combat-oriented character, so I propose that he take on Nargon, and I'll fill in for our Rajah.  How does that suit everyone?  As to the beguiler, it's in PHII also, so I'll have a look.  Re-tooling Bevin seems like a good idea to me!  Assuming that he lives, of course....  I might have some other ideas of my own about class, though, like maybe a Duskblade?  (Also PHII.)


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## kinem (Oct 31, 2008)

Leif, I'm OK with either way but if you don't feel comfortable with running a combat-oriented character, you can either learn by trying to run one or by having things jump out at Bevin when he's alone and out of spells 

I think the beguiler would be a good match for Bevin.  The duskblade seems more melee oriented than Bevin has shown himself to be thus far, and I want to keep narrative back-compatibility.


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## Rhun (Oct 31, 2008)

kinem said:


> I think the beguiler would be a good match for Bevin.  The duskblade seems more melee oriented than Bevin has shown himself to be thus far, and I want to keep narrative back-compatibility.





The beguiler is a great class, though most of their spells are not really combat oriented. Still, I've found that class to be very fun to play.

The duskblade is a fun class to play, but is more complicated than most classed, because you have to learn how to use your melee attacks in combination with your spells; the ability to channel them through your weapon is cool, but definitely adds a new element to combat if you aren't used to playing one.


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## Rhun (Oct 31, 2008)

FYI...I don't have the Liber Mortis for handling Rajah. I see that his feats are at Crystal Keep, but I couldn't seem to find the details of the class itself there. So if you want me to run him, I may need some help from time to time.


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## Leif (Oct 31, 2008)

Rhun,

I may be wrong but I was almost sure that dread necromancer was also in either complete arcane or complete mage.  Still, seems like you would have already checked those, so I must be wrong about this too, no?

Kinem,

Bevin has not shown himself to be very combat oriented because I preferred to keep him alive!  I have no problem running a combat-oriented character.  In fact, as Rhun can attest, I sometimes put my non-front-line characters in harm's way too often.  The Beguiler does sound interesting, but I don't think it would change the current status quo appreciably.  Bevin might as well remain and Enchanter as convert to Beguiler.  To preserve back-compatibility, I could play Bevin as a "conscientious objector" Duskblade?


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## kinem (Nov 3, 2008)

Bevin's problem isn't that he's an Enchanter.  It's that he's a 6th level wizard pretending to be an 8th level wizard.

Making him a beguiler would allow him to be a full caster while maintaining some roguish qualities.

That said, Leif, if you really prefer a duskblade I'll allow it.  I like to be flexible on PC retooling in PBP due to the long time it takes to complete each adventure.


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## Leif (Nov 3, 2008)

kinem said:


> Bevin's problem isn't that he's an Enchanter.  It's that he's a 6th level wizard pretending to be an 8th level wizard.
> Making him a beguiler would allow him to be a full caster while maintaining some roguish qualities.
> That said, Leif, if you really prefer a duskblade I'll allow it.  I like to be flexible on PC retooling in PBP due to the long time it takes to complete each adventure.



Acutally, Kinem, now that I've given this more thought, I think that I've decided that I prefer the beguiler option for its own sake.  Please just give me a little while longer to read up on it, ok?


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## kinem (Nov 4, 2008)

Sure, there's time.

I started a new IC thread which starts with the encounter.

I'll be away Thurs - Sun but maybe we can get a round in before that break.

I suppose we are having Leif run Rajah and Rhun run Nargon.


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## Leif (Nov 4, 2008)

kinem said:


> I suppose we are having Leif run Rajah and Rhun run Nargon.



Well....that was my personal preference.  We haven't heard Rhun's take on the matter, however.


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## Rhun (Nov 4, 2008)

Leif said:


> Well....that was my personal preference.  We haven't heard Rhun's take on the matter, however.




Considering I don't have the books needed to run Rajah, it would be my preference to run Nargon. I checked everything I own, and nothing has dread necromancer in it. Does this work for everyone?


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## Walking Dad (Nov 4, 2008)

Dread Necromancer is in 'Heroes of Horror'.


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## Leif (Nov 4, 2008)

I'm pretty sure that Dread Necromancer is also in Complete Arcane or Complete Mage.  At least, I'm almost sure that I've seen it in one of my books, and I dont' have Heroes of Horror, so those two Completes are the most likely candidates.  

But, yeah, Rhun, I'll fake Rajah if I don't have the class in some book.  Sounds like we have us a plan!

Guess Rhun and I need to get our own copies of these "new" (to us) characters added to the RG, also, so that we can keep up with them and make changes as needed.

HARK!  I hear Split Personality Disorder beckoning to  us!!  It's calling Rhuuuuuuun, Leeeeeeif!


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## kinem (Nov 4, 2008)

Don't get too used to it - I still want to get rid of the XPCs ASAP.  This is just so that combat isn't like playing my right hand against my left.

Or do you think I should recruit new players for the existing characters?

The Dread Necromancer is only in HoH (good book BTW), but I think the information on Rajah's sheet is enough to run him.  There are other types of Necromancers, such as the True Necromancer, in other books.  Let me know if you have any questions, Leif.


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## Leif (Nov 4, 2008)

Seems like there's a good joke to be made about XPCs ASAP, but it's eluding my grasp for the moment.  Ahh, well, it's probably for the best.  I'm pretty ambivialent about recruiting others to play them.  If we had a chance of success, alone, I'd really prefer to just do it with Aram, Girgal, Ripclaw, and Bevin.


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## Leif (Nov 4, 2008)

Did I totally miss us finishing X4???  Or is our insightful and all-powerful DM just planning ahead?  

OOC:  I must say, guys, that this is the best group I'm playing with, I think.  It's the only group I'm in where I have both Rhun and WD by my side, and that makes it an extra-special treat for me.  If we just had Scotley http://www.enworld.org/forum/members/scotley.html with us he could be the cherry on top of our rocky road, pistachio, chocolate almond swirl sundae!


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## kinem (Nov 4, 2008)

X4's not done yet, but the end is perhaps in sight.  That's why it says X4-5.  X5 picks up right after the party passes the Pass.

Yes, good group of players, here!

I think we'll need to add at least one more though for X5.  It's not just a matter of the party being tough enough to even reach the Master; the group should be big enough that if someone has to take time off or something, the game can go on.


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## Leif (Nov 5, 2008)

Now you're thinking ahead!  More power to you.


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## Leif (Nov 5, 2008)

Got a slight problem:  Rajah's sheet does not specify which spells he has prepared for the current day.  Or is the Dread Necromancer a spontaneous casting class?


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## kinem (Nov 5, 2008)

Yes, he can cast any spell he knows.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 5, 2008)

Here is the sheet of my DN from another game. Perhaps it helps:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4233890-post4.html


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## Leif (Nov 10, 2008)

Yes, WD, that helps, thanks!  

Please note, DM Kinem, that I believed what you said, too.


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## Leif (Nov 11, 2008)

I apologize for the "Tweedledee/Tweedeldum" effect regading Bevin and Rajah lately.  But it has made for some good comic relief.  (For me, anyway.)  Something else that I thought of is:  What if Bevin and Rajah were actually twins?  Or even Conjoined Twins  (the new politically correct term for Siamese twins).  Can you imagine:  The Dwarf Enchanter and his Evil Conjoined Twin the Dread Necomancer.  Wow.


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## kinem (Nov 11, 2008)

If you're doing it on purpose for comic relief that's fine.  A little bit of tasteful comedy is a very important part of the game 

But it might be a good idea to stretch your roleplaying skills a bit - run each character independently, according to his own personality, situation, information and beliefs.

As DM I try to do that with the NPCs, though often the result is _the monster is mean and hungry ... hmm, what would it do ... Oooh! I know! _"It tries to bite you!" as opposed to me just saying "It tries to bite you!"


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## Leif (Nov 12, 2008)

Yeah, I know I need to do that more.  This latest thing was truly intended to be humorous.  I'll make it a point to familiarize myself more with the dread necromancer, both in general and our specific one.  One thing, though, as I recall, renau1g was having Rajah be fairly silent much of the time, while, in contrast, Bevin only shuts up when he absolutely has to.  So many of my posts for Rajah may well be more descriptive than pithy dialogue.


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## kinem (Nov 23, 2008)

So do you guys want to explore more of the complex now, possibly disturbing the monks, or will you go back to the guest house for the night?


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## Leif (Nov 23, 2008)

Bev and Raj don't have strong opinions one way or the other.  They'd probably be for more exploration if they thought there might be something to see, but Bev's just not that impressed with the excitement of this place, and he'd just as soon turn in for the evening.  Rajah, on the other hand, would like to find a few more dark corners and holes to poke his nose into.

I will just observe that monks are SUPPOSED to be pretty stoic, so if they are disturbed by our activity, they should get over it pretty quickly.  Unless these are some atypical monks.  What are the odds of that, do you suppose?


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## Rhun (Nov 24, 2008)

Aram and Nargon are up for a little more quiet exploration if anyone else is in...barring that, we can retire. We'd definitely want to set up a watch, though.


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## Leif (Nov 24, 2008)

Rajah is in with Aram and Nargon for sure!  He rubs his hands together with glee at the prospect of snooping around more.  Bevin will go if the majority ofhe group goes, because of "strength in numbers," but he's going to grumble about the sleep he's losing.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 25, 2008)

Girgal will insist on praying on midnight and hasn't slept yet. Until midknight, he will run with the pack.


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## Leif (Nov 25, 2008)

Never mind.  Answered elsewhere.

In other news:

When Girgal goes to pray, Bevin will go to sleep.  Rajah will lurk about for a few more hours, roaming the compound in the darkness, looking to catch sight of bats flying and to satisfy his curiosity about the nocturnal habits of monks.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 26, 2008)

'Base of Operation' is nearly finished. But we still need a rogue.

hey, kinem, are you interested?

-----

Yes Rhun, we are talking about the game you are in, that I GM


----------



## kinem (Nov 27, 2008)

WD: OK. I think I can squeeze in another game.


----------



## kinem (Dec 9, 2008)

At this point I am going to retake DM control of the XPCs.

Leif and Rhun, thanks for running them for a while.  Well done.  I hope you did not get too attached to them.

We will proceed to the evening unless Bevin, Girgal, or Aram have something special they want to do during the day.


----------



## Leif (Dec 10, 2008)

You're very welcome.  Glad I was able to help.  And I'm not attached at all, thanks for taking over again.


----------



## Rhun (Dec 10, 2008)

Not a problem at all. It was interesting to run a warlock build that was so powerful in combat. It certainly gives me ideas for future PCs.


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## kinem (Jan 7, 2009)

I know it's a busy month but everyone has posted this week in other games so it's time to ask.  What's the holdup?

Granted the current situation is not so easy, especially with the unfortunate situation where the PC's friends were killed, but you should have some ideas what to do.

The monsters went into the house.  They are apparently gone.  Where to?

Would you rather pursue the monsters or try to play it safe and resume your journey ASAP?

What will you do for Rajah and Nargon?  I shouldn't have to remind you but there is plenty of coal in the blacksmith's shed if you want to cremate them.


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## Leif (Jan 7, 2009)

Since I made the last post, my plan is to wait for Aram or Girgal to respond to my questions.


----------



## Rhun (Jan 7, 2009)

I have no excuse other than I suck. Sorry, Kinem!


----------



## Leif (Jan 7, 2009)

Ease up on yourself, Rhun!  You're not all THAT bad.  Most of the time.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jan 8, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I have no excuse other than I suck. Sorry, Kinem!



Same here. Sorry.


----------



## kinem (Feb 5, 2009)

Rhun, welcome back!

I hope the game stays active now.

renau1g - OK.  As I offerred, you will be rejoining the game - as Father Fuller!  Human 7th level cleric, no equipment, no spells prepared.  Otherwise you can build him as a PC (using the rules in the beginning of this thread).  Should be interesting   I'll have to email you on what little you know.


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## Leif (Feb 5, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Same here. Sorry.



What I said to Rhun appies to you, too!   Hey, we're all still here, and renau1g has even rejoined our merry band now!  All is good, yes?


----------



## Leif (Feb 5, 2009)

*renau1g*

There was a short time (Thank goodness it wasn't very long!) when I was running both Rajah and Bevin.  I felt like doing that was going to permanently scar my poor brain!  Thankfully, kinem let me off the hook before any permanent damage was inflicted.  whew!  You can HAVE your Dread Necromancers!


----------



## renau1g (Feb 5, 2009)

I was reading some of those posts... you have my pity.


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## Leif (Feb 5, 2009)

*snif*  Thanky.


----------



## renau1g (Feb 5, 2009)

P.S. has he grown back his beard? Or should I try and buy a restoration spell?


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## renau1g (Feb 5, 2009)

```
[B]Name:[/B] Father Fuller
[B]Class:[/B] Cleric 7	[b]Starting Level[/b]: 7
[B]Race:[/B] Human
[B]Region of Origin:[/b] TBD
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
[B]Alignment:[/B] NG
[B]Deity:[/B] Amaunator (lost empires of Faerun)

[B]Str:[/B] 11 +0 (03p.)	[B]Level:[/B] 7	[B]XP[/B]: 
[B]Dex:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)	[B]BAB:[/B] +5		[B]HP:[/B] 58 (10+6x6+12)
[B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)	[B]Grapple:[/B] +5	
[B]Int:[/B] 10 +0 (02p.)	[B]Speed:[/B] 30'	[B]Stat Increases:[/b] 1 pts -> Wis
[B]Wis:[/B] 18 +4 (13p.+1 lvl4)	[B]Init:[/B] +4	[B]Spell Save:[/B] +4
[B]Cha:[/B] 14 +2 (06p.)	[B]ACP:[/B] -0		[B]Spell Fail:[/B] X%

[B]	Base	Armor	Shld	Dex	Size	Nat	Misc	Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]	10	+0	+0	+0	+0	+0	+0	10
[B]Touch:[/B]	10	[B]Flatfooted:[/B] 10

[B]Spell Res:[/B] None
[B]Dmg Red:[/B] None

[B]	Total	Base	Mod	Misc[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]	+7	+5	+2	--
[B]Ref:[/B]	+4	+2	+0	+2
[B]Will:[/B]	+9	+5	+4	--
[B]Notes:[/B]

[B]Weapon			Attack	Damage	Critical	Range[/B]


[B]Notes:[/B]

[B]Languages:[/B] Common, Elven

[B]Abilities:[/B] 

Turn Undead 5/day

Time Domain - Gains Improved Init. as a bonus feat
Sun Domain - Once per day, you can perform a greater turning against undead in place of a regular turning. The greater turning is like a normal turning except that the undead creatures that would be turned are destroyed instead.

[B]Feats: [/B] 
Augment Healing (Human 1) (Complete Divine) (+2 HP/spell level to every Conjuration [Healing] spell you cast)
Combat Casting (lvl 1)
Lightning Reflexes (lvl 3)
Extend Spell (lvl 6)


[B]Spells prepared[/B] (Save DC 14 + spell level): 0 - 6,Detect Magic (x3), Mending, Light (x2) ; 1st - 4+1, Protection from Evil(x2), Divine Favour, Vigor, Lesser(x2), True Strike (D); 2nd - 3+1, Bull's Strength(x2), Silence, Heat Metal (D); 3rd - 2+1, Extended Hold Person, Magic Circle Against Evil, Haste(D) ; 4th - 1+1, Shield of Faith (Mass) Fire Shield (D) 

[B]Skill Points:[/B] 30 [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 10/7
[B]Skills		Total	Ranks	Mod 	Misc[/B]

Heal		+8	4	4	XX
Concentration	+12	10	2	xx
Know (Religion) +5	5	0	XX
Listen/Spot	+4	0	4	XX
Diplomacy	+5	3	2	xx
Spellcraft	+6	6	0	xx
Use Magic Device +3	1	2	xx



[B]Notes:[/B]

[B]Equipment:		Cost	Weight[/B]
0

[B]Total Weight:[/B] 0	[B]Money:[/B] 0

[B]		Lgt	Med	Hvy	Lift	Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]	38	76	115	115	575

[B]Age:[/B] 27
[B]Height:[/B] 5'6" 
[B]Weight:[/B] 175 lbs
[B]Eyes:[/B] Blue
[B]Hair:[/B] Brown, Long
[B]Skin:[/B] Pale
```


----------



## Leif (Feb 5, 2009)

renau1g said:


> P.S. has he grown back his beard? Or should I try and buy a restoration spell?



It's definitely on the way back.  In fact, it may be back by now....DM ruling, Kinem?? 

Although, the Restoration idea sounds like fun, too. hehe


----------



## Rhun (Feb 5, 2009)

Leif said:


> It's definitely on the way back.  In fact, it may be back by now....DM ruling, Kinem??





In the next combat, a particularly bad strike of Aram's razor-sharp scimitars will make sure to remove that beard again!


----------



## renau1g (Feb 5, 2009)

*Father Fuller Prays for a natural 1*


----------



## kinem (Feb 5, 2009)

Leif - Bevin has a beard, but I'd say a proper dwarven beard takes years to grow!  Restoration wouldn't work.  You could probably research a 1st level spell to fix it ...

ren, good to see you've already statted him out! A few comments:

HP: 58 (10+6x6+12)

Currently at half (29).

*Alignment:* NG

That's fine, now.  Before he was imprisoned, he would have been LG.

*Deity:* Amaunator (lost empires of Faerun)

The game takes place on Mystara.  Anyway, he follows the religious traditions of the monastary.  They honor several Immortals.  You could name one that I guess 

*Spells prepared*

Currently has has no spells prepared.  He has to pray at dawn, and the monsters and his confinement never let him get much rest.  Note that he has no spell component pouch either, though he could borrow some, or snag some from Rajah's body in the monks' house.

You can keep the list with the understanding that he has to wait for the morning.

*Weight:* 175 lbs

That's his normal weight, but right now he's probably 130 lbs.  He's not been fed well.  Oh, the bhuts know how to cook a good meal ... or should I say, a Good meal.


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## renau1g (Feb 5, 2009)

Great kinem.
re: spells prepared, I listed his typical spells prepped, hopefully he doesn't get involved in any combat as he's essentially useless without his spells.

when shall I take the reins of our faithful Father Fuller?


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## kinem (Feb 5, 2009)

renau1g said:


> when shall I take the reins of our faithful Father Fuller?




Go for it


----------



## Leif (Feb 5, 2009)

kinem said:
			
		

> Leif - Bevin has a beard, but I'd say a proper dwarven beard takes years to grow! Restoration wouldn't work. You could probably research a 1st level spell to fix it ...



"Auughhhhhhhhhhhh!!  My poor beard!" quoth Bevin every time he passes a mirror.

OOC:  Bev will begin to research the spell _Beard Resoration_ at the earliest available opportunity.  He will also research a related cantrip: _Hurry Up and Grow Dammit_, to help matters along.  I'm thinking that one use of the cantrip could substitute for a weeks' beard growth, maybe?


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## renau1g (Feb 5, 2009)

...and Bevin wasn't even drunk. Damn dehydration, makes you do crazy things.


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## Leif (Feb 25, 2009)

LMBO (laughing my BEARD off) renau1g!

But, on a more serious note:  Any of you that know Reveillle go here now!

http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/251277-re-reveille.html


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## kinem (Mar 8, 2009)

I take it that the party will spend the rest of the night in the guest house, then explore the complex a bit in the morning?  Presumably, assuming you survive, you will then head out and make for the Great Pass.

BTW, Father Fuller knows the general location of the Great Pass, and knows a bit about it.  X5 begins at the Pass.

Module X4 is just about over, so it's time to make leveled-up versions of your PCs and post them in the X5 RG.  Father Fuller will become 8th level; the others 9th.

Leif, you can turn Bevin into a 9th level beguiler.

IC, right now, you haven't levelled up yet.


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## Leif (Mar 8, 2009)

kinem said:


> Leif, you can turn Bevin into a 9th level beguiler.



Cool!  Thanks, I'll do just that.  (May take me a little time, but I'll try to put a rush on it, ok?)


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## Rhun (Mar 10, 2009)

kinem said:


> Module X4 is just about over, so it's time to make leveled-up versions of your PCs and post them in the X5 RG.  Father Fuller will become 8th level; the others 9th.




Aram has been updated to 9th level, and posted to the X5 RG. I just need to choose his 9th level feat and he will be done.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 10, 2009)

kinem, can you roll HP for me?

1d8 for Girgal and 2d8 for Ripclaw.


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## kinem (Mar 10, 2009)

As before, hp are average+.5 for PCs and average for others.  So, 5 and 9.


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## renau1g (Mar 10, 2009)

Father Fuller is posted as well.


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## Rhun (Mar 10, 2009)

Anyone have any good suggestions for a feat for a Two Weapon Fighter (Rogue 5/Fighter 2/Dervish 2)?


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## renau1g (Mar 10, 2009)

There's Weapon Focus, the improved two-weapon fighting or improved two-weapon defense (if you don't have them). Iron Will might not be bad as I'd imagine your will save might be low... Double Hit on Crystalkeep is kind of neat, if you make an OA, you can make two attacks, one for each weapon. Two Weapon Pounce is interesting as well. 

At the end of a Charge, you may attack with both your primary & off-hand weapons. The +2 attack bonus for the Charge and the –2 penalty for fighting with two weapons cancel out. You still receive the –2 penalty to AC for the Charge.

Also, Dual strike might also intrigue you:

As a Standard Action, you can make a melee attack with your primary and off-hand weapon. Both attacks use the same attack roll and the worse of the two weapon’s attack modifier. If you are using a one-handed or light weapon in your off-hand, you take a –4 penalty; otherwise the penalty is –10. Each weapon deals its damage normally and reduction/resistance is applied separately. Precision damage (such as sneak attack) is only applied once. A critical hit only deals critical damage from the primary


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## renau1g (Mar 10, 2009)

_Double Post....sorry_


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## Rhun (Mar 10, 2009)

Thanks for the suggestions, Ryan. I'll take a gander at these, and leaf through my books over the next couple of days and see if I can't find something I like.


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## Leif (Mar 10, 2009)

Boy, that Ryan.  He's a regular SRD on legs!!


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## Rhun (Mar 10, 2009)

Leif said:


> Boy, that Ryan.  He's a regular SRD on legs!!





Sounds to me like he has the Crystal Keep Feat index at hand! Which, come to think of it, so do I...I just always forget to use it. Two Weapon related feats listed nicely on Page 24 of the document.


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## Leif (Mar 10, 2009)

Hey, just because YOU understand his magic, don't spoil the WONDERMENT of the rest of us poor, sheltered natives.


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## renau1g (Mar 10, 2009)

I am a walking encyclopedia of all things D&D (both 3.5 & 4e).... bask in my glory???

Last night my wife and friend were making characters for our Age of Worms game and I decided to make them gestalt PC's as there are only 2 of them, I realized how much of a geek I am because I could help them make their character's without the PHB or SRD in front of me. I need to get out more


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## Leif (Mar 10, 2009)

Quitcher braggin' ya big geek!!!


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## Walking Dad (Mar 11, 2009)

kinem said:


> As before, hp are average+.5 for PCs and average for others.  So, 5 and 9.




Oops, thanks. Is my 9th level feat fine? If you haven't the source, I could post it.


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## Rhun (Mar 11, 2009)

So here are the three feat choices I'm debating:

*- Improved Two Weapon Fighting:* Gives Aram another attack, bringing him to four per round when making a full attack action.
*- Two Weapon Defense*: Improves AC slightly, but would give Aram a big bonus when fighting defensively or using total defense (he would get a +5 bonus to AC with fighting defensively, or a +8 from total defense with this feat and the 5+ ranks in tumble).
*- Improed Critical:* As a two weapon fighter using scimitars, Improved Critical would bring Aram's threat range to 15-20, and with him making three attacks per round on average, this could lead to lots of extra damage.

What do you guys think? Leif and Ryan, I know you guys at least will have an opinion!


----------



## Leif (Mar 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> So here are the three feat choices I'm debating:
> *- Improved Two Weapon Fighting:* Gives Aram another attack, bringing him to four per round when making a full attack action.
> *- Two Weapon Defense*: Improves AC slightly, but would give Aram a big bonus when fighting defensively or using total defense (he would get a +5 bonus to AC with fighting defensively, or a +8 from total defense with this feat and the 5+ ranks in tumble).
> *- Improed Critical:* As a two weapon fighter using scimitars, Improved Critical would bring Aram's threat range to 15-20, and with him making three attacks per round on average, this could lead to lots of extra damage.
> ...



Pretty sure about that, are you?  I sometimes keep my less-informed opinions to myself when I'm dealing with 'rules gurus' llike you and Ryan.  Ahhh, but not all that often I guess:  (Ahem!)  Anyway, I'm just a damage trollop, so I'd go for Improved Critical, but, really, it's hard to say which of those 3, if any, would give you more of an advantage.  

When I get to building Bevin the Beguiler (tonight, I HOPE) I'll be wanting suggestions from you, Ryan, Dad, kinem and everybody!


----------



## Rhun (Mar 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> When I get to building Bevin the Beguiler (tonight, I HOPE) I'll be wanting suggestions from you, Ryan, Dad, kinem and everybody!




No worries. I really like the Beguiler class. I've not played it, but I've seen them in play, and I like them. I'm not sure Complete Mage is an allowed source, but if so you may want to look at the Reserve Feats there, as they are highly beneficial to making sure that a caster always has something they can contribute to combat.


----------



## renau1g (Mar 11, 2009)

Good selection there Rhun, I'm agreeing with Leif here, Improved Crit is too much fun to pass up. The other two are really good as well, the bonus AC will really help without a true front line figher, and the extra attack is always decent.

But for me, nothing is better than rolling that critical hit


----------



## Leif (Mar 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> No worries. I really like the Beguiler class. I've not played it, but I've seen them in play, and I like them. I'm not sure Complete Mage is an allowed source, but if so you may want to look at the Reserve Feats there, as they are highly beneficial to making sure that a caster always has something they can contribute to combat.



I've only seen ONE in play, in our Constables game, in fact.  And I've always meant to use those reserve feats, but, somehow, I always manage to forget that they exist at the critical moment.  Do those feats not have some prerequisite that interferes with a Beguiler using them?  

Kinem, are Reserve Feats even allowed in this game?

Thanks, Rhun, for some great advice!  Your turn now, Ryan...


----------



## Rhun (Mar 11, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Good selection there Rhun, I'm agreeing with Leif here, Improved Crit is too much fun to pass up. The other two are really good as well, the bonus AC will really help without a true front line figher, and the extra attack is always decent.
> 
> But for me, nothing is better than rolling that critical hit




I hear you. Of course, the crit on a scimitar only adds 1d6, and most of Aram's additional damage comes from additional dice, which aren't added on crits.

And he has had to use Total Defense and Figting Defensively/Combat Expertise many times. So, tough choice.


----------



## Rhun (Mar 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> Do those feats not have some prerequisite that interferes with a Beguiler using them?




I'd have to check my books, but I believe they are based on what type of spells your PC knows...so yes, being a Beguiler may limit which reserve feats are available, but you should be able to find at least one or two I would think. IF Kinem even allows them.


----------



## Leif (Mar 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I hear you. Of course, the crit on a scimitar only adds 1d6, and most of Aram's additional damage comes from additional dice, which aren't added on crits.
> 
> And he has had to use Total Defense and Figting Defensively/Combat Expertise many times. So, tough choice.



Sure it only adds 1d6 ABOVE the max of 8!  So that's an average of 11.5 as opposed to an average of 4.5 on a regular hit.  Less bonuses in both cases, of course.


----------



## Leif (Mar 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I'd have to check my books, but I believe they are based on what type of spells your PC knows...so yes, being a Beguiler may limit which reserve feats are available, but you should be able to find at least one or two I would think. IF Kinem even allows them.



I know that for each of the reserve feats you must have a spell prepared and not yet cast of a specific type related to the individual feat.  But I was wondering about a more general requirement, like, say Wizard Level X or something.


----------



## Leif (Mar 11, 2009)

No SRD that I can find has reserve feats.  Grrrr.  Of course, kinem might not even allow reserve feats, anyway.....


----------



## renau1g (Mar 11, 2009)

The spells don't require Wizard, they require Ability to cast spells of X level.


----------



## Leif (Mar 11, 2009)

renau1g said:


> The spells feats (?) don't require Wizard, they require Ability to cast spells of X level.



Ok, cool!


----------



## kinem (Mar 12, 2009)

I have decided to allow feats from Complete Mage ... BUT, if any PC takes a feat from there, it will open up the book for use by NPCs as well 

If you have been given an intrinsic bonus to an ability score, make sure it is reflected in your stats.


----------



## Rhun (Mar 12, 2009)

kinem said:


> I have decided to allow feats from Complete Mage ... BUT, if any PC takes a feat from there, it will open up the book for use by NPCs as well




That is most certainly fair. Especially if they only use them on Bevin.


----------



## kinem (Mar 12, 2009)

Right 

On further thought, I think it would be better not to use some of the material from Complete Mage.  Minor Shapechange seems overpowered for a feat; it lets you have temporary hp equal to your HD _that renew every round_ - and that's just part of it!

I don't think Bevin will run out of spells as a beguiler, so I won't allow the reserve feats after all.

Anyway, good news - Reveille is back up!


----------



## Leif (Mar 12, 2009)

*Awwww!*

No reserve feats, DARN!

Oh, well, Bev will deal somehow.  I hope!

Great News About Rev!!  Do you know how responsive he is at the moment?  I know that in my case, "waking up" from a comatose state took several days if not weeks.  (Not that I remember it clearly myself, you understand....)


----------



## kinem (Mar 13, 2009)

Feel like talking about why you were in a coma, Leif?

See the thread on Reveille in the General forum.


----------



## Leif (Mar 13, 2009)

kinem said:


> Feel like talking about why you were in a coma, Leif?



Sure, if you wanna hear it:  I had a head-on collision on 9/23/93 while I was on my way back to Court after the noon recess. (Needless to say, I was a little bit late.)  The next thing I was aware of, I was in the hospital in December.  I was in a coma for about 6 weeks.  Both my lungs were punctured, my left ankle was crushed, my collarbone was broken on both sides, but the worst injury was a Closed Head Injury.  I managed to re-learn how to walk and get around, and now the only issues that I still have are a slight (compared to what it was before) speech impairment, and my left knee won't flex more than about 90 degrees.  All in all, I'd say I came out pretty well!


----------



## kinem (Mar 13, 2009)

Indeed; I'm glad you're OK!

You may have seen the news about Reveille.  He was faking it.  I don't know why he did it, but I'm sure he has problems of a different kind, which I hope he can overcome.  At least he's physically OK.  He's had some interesting ideas, but never follows through.  Maybe he will mature some day.


----------



## Leif (Mar 13, 2009)

Yes, I was very blessed.  Or, I suppose, very lucky, depending upon your point of view.  Personally, I subscribe to the firm belief that there is absolutely no such thing as luck, but, hey, that's just me.

And, yes, I've seen the new flashes that Rev was faking.  I'm quite embarrassed now for all the posts that I made spreading his false story all over ENWorld.  But it just never even entered my mind that he would lie.   I mean, what kind of a sick bastard _does_ that sort of thing??

....OH, and THANKS, Kinem!!  You're pretty ok yourownself!


----------



## renau1g (Mar 13, 2009)

Wow... thanks for the info kinem... I fell pretty stupid now, I prayed for him and his "mandy".

I'm glad that P-cat gave the heads up, not sure how they would have found out, but damn...


----------



## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

*Bevin's spells*

Kinem, I appreciate you letting Bevin still know all the spells as a Beguiler that he knew as a wizard.  But, it occurs to me that letting Bevin spontaneously cast all of the cantrips that he knew before spontaneously, might be a bit out of balance.  (Which is an odd thing for a zero-level spell, to be sure!)  This is especially true since Beguilers don't ordinarily have cantrips at all.  But, I have to also say that having someone in the party who can cast detect magic would seem to almost be a necessity, but Father Fuller can do that.


----------



## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Wow... thanks for the info kinem... I fell pretty stupid now, I prayed for him and his "mandy".
> 
> I'm glad that P-cat gave the heads up, not sure how they would have found out, but damn...




[sblock=One Last Comment on R]We should have known it was all a big lie, because [POST EDITED]??[/sblock]


----------



## kinem (Mar 16, 2009)

Leif:  I forgot to mention this: Even though Bevin is now a beguiler, his spellcasting will still be based off of Intelligence, not Charisma.  (So he's a variant.)

Remember, he had Immortal aid in upgrading his magic, so it's understandable that he's a little unique.  I'm not too worried about him being overpowered by knowing the cantrips.  If he suddenly starts dominating all the action with his 4 cantrips/day, then I might reconsider.

You should post the new Bevin in the X5: Temple of Death - RG, not in the old X4 thread.

I don't know why but right now you mostly have a beguiler 8, in the old thread. I guess it's a work in progress.  He is not a beguiler 8 and never was.  He's a (variant) beguiler 9.  Don't forget, a beguiler in light armor has no ASF%.


----------



## renau1g (Mar 16, 2009)

Maybe Father Fuller will need to "donate" that magical chain shirt to the church of Bevin


----------



## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

kinem said:


> Leif:  I forgot to mention this: Even though Bevin is now a beguiler, his spellcasting will still be based off of Intelligence, not Charisma.  (So he's a variant.)
> 
> Remember, he had Immortal aid in upgrading his magic, so it's understandable that he's a little unique.  I'm not too worried about him being overpowered by knowing the cantrips.  If he suddenly starts dominating all the action with his 4 cantrips/day, then I might reconsider.
> 
> ...



Wow!  Thanks, Kinem!  How awesomely wonderful!  (Oh, dear!  Can you imagine the monsters he's going to throw at us now??  EEEeek!!)


----------



## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Maybe Father Fuller will need to "donate" that magical chain shirt to the church of Bevin



Donate???  Sounds to me like you'd be paying RENT on the +2 mace!


----------



## renau1g (Mar 16, 2009)

Well... I thought that maybe Bevin was offering it "rent-free" to the local church and claiming that rent as a tax-deduction  

[note: damn this tax season, my brain begins thinking only in those terms]


----------



## kinem (Mar 16, 2009)

Leif said:


> (Oh, dear!  Can you imagine the monsters he's going to throw at us now??  EEEeek!!)




Let's just say that X5 nudges it up a notch in the challenge department


----------



## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Well... I thought that maybe Bevin was offering it "rent-free" to the local church and claiming that rent as a tax-deduction
> 
> [note: damn this tax season, my brain begins thinking only in those terms]



Hmmm, I guess we could work out something along those lines.  Hate it?  Why, are you an accountant?  If so you have my sincere sympathies, but I also suspect that your circumstances are of your own creation, so I can't be TOO sympathetic!


----------



## renau1g (Mar 16, 2009)

I noticed, poor Aram, those negative levels hurt, and we can't even get in there to help him.


----------



## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

renau1g said:


> I noticed, poor Aram, those negative levels hurt, and we can't even get in there to help him.



Well, we _could_, I guess, but Bevin sure isn't about to!  He's already been there, and it's SCARY in there!  But you'd better brush up your _Restoration, Lesser_ spells!


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## Rhun (Mar 16, 2009)

Leif said:


> Well, we _could_, I guess, but Bevin sure isn't about to!  He's already been there, and it's SCARY in there!  But you'd better brush up your _Restoration, Lesser_ spells!




Uhg, I despise energy drain! LOL. I really do hope Father Fuller has some _Restoration_ handy!

And I had held out hope that an AC of 31 (+6 from total defense) would protect Aram from getting an ass-whuppin!


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## Leif (Mar 16, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Uhg, I despise energy drain! LOL. I really do hope Father Fuller has some _Restoration_ handy!



Me, too!  Aram is Bevin's all-time favorite meat shield, so it would just not do to have his durability compromised!


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## kinem (Mar 17, 2009)

Leif: As it turns out, the beguiler is already intelligence-based 

Rhun: An off-hand weapon only gets 1/2 strength bonus, so it's 1d6+2 with Aram's second scimitar.

Note that Aram currently has a -1 penalty to hit from the negative level.

renau1g: Remember that Father Fuller still has no holy symbol, and no material components, so he can't cast most of his spells.

Since the material component for Shield of Faith is a piece of parchment with holy text on it, it's possible he could have made some this morning.  I will be generous and allow the casting, but from now on you will have to explicitly state any time you attempt to make your own material components, or I will risk losing my ranking in the Evil DM's Guild


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## renau1g (Mar 17, 2009)

kinem said:


> renau1g: Remember that Father Fuller still has no holy symbol, and no material components, so he can't cast most of his spells.
> 
> Since the material component for Shield of Faith is a piece of parchment with holy text on it, it's possible he could have made some this morning.  I will be generous and allow the casting, but from now on you will have to explicitly state any time you attempt to make your own material components, or I will risk losing my ranking in the Evil DM's Guild




Yikes, we really need to find his gear... nothing more useless than a cleric who can't cast spells, except an enchanter against undead


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## Leif (Mar 17, 2009)

kinem said:


> Leif: As it turns out, the beguiler is already intelligence-based



So how many spells may I choose from the Beguiler list?  A full set for a 9th level Beguiler?  Cool, well, that may be too much to hope for since Bev already will have his wizard spells, but that's what I'll do, and you can correct me later. 

Turns out that I didn't know how Beguilers do spells at all, until I read it tonight.  Pretty cool, if you ask me.  Kinda like a Clericeror or a Sorceric.   And, btw, I'm kicking myself repeatedly for never having played a Beguiler long before now.


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## Rhun (Mar 17, 2009)

kinem said:


> Rhun: An off-hand weapon only gets 1/2 strength bonus, so it's 1d6+2 with Aram's second scimitar.




Good catch!



kinem said:


> Note that Aram currently has a -1 penalty to hit from the negative level.




I noted that in my sblock IC...I was trying not to let the others know I had been energy drained, but they figured it out anyway.


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## kinem (Mar 17, 2009)

Leif: Don't forget to post in the X5 RG.  Bevin should have 56 hp (6+8*4+9*2).

renau1g: At least Father Fuller made it out of that hellhole with even losing any limbs 

BTW he recovered (and gained) hp overnight but he's still not fully recovered - he's at 41/58 I believe.


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## Leif (Mar 17, 2009)

kinem said:


> Leif: Don't forget to post in the X5 RG.  Bevin should have 56 hp (6+8*4+9*2).



Sorry, I didn't realize that we had a new RG.  I'm all subscribed to it now and will get Bevin up as soon as I can get these changes made.


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## Leif (Mar 17, 2009)

Bev's in X5 RG.  He does not yet have L9 skill points as a Beguiler.  Speaking of which, should I go back and re-figure all of his skills using Beguiler skill point figures?  I believe that he wouldhave significantly more skill points that way.  Just let me know what you think.  Other than that, I think he's finally done this time!  (Maybe?)


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## Rhun (Mar 17, 2009)

Sorry Aram didn't take advantage of Bevin's _invisibility_ spell to escape...but he figures he has to break the enemy's blockade or they will never be able to recover Father Fuller's gear. These guys are obviously guarding something...why else would they just be standing there ready in a small little antechamber?


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## Leif (Mar 17, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Sorry Aram didn't take advantage of Bevin's _invisibility_ spell to escape...but he figures he has to break the enemy's blockade or they will never be able to recover Father Fuller's gear. These guys are obviously guarding something...why else would they just be standing there ready in a small little antechamber?



I know this.  LEIF knows this.  Bevin may know it too, but he's a grouchy f****r anyway!   (And Besides, if Bevin wasn't such a cheapskate, he would have cast _Greater Invisibility_ in the first place and solved all this.)

(Actually, I hadn't even thought about the details of the reasons for the attack, but I knew that Aram would have a good reason for his actions.  )


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## Rhun (Mar 17, 2009)

Is revenge for energy draining him a reason? I mean, Aram didn't attack first, after all.


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## Leif (Mar 17, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Is revenge for energy draining him a reason? I mean, Aram didn't attack first, after all.



Yes, I am hard pressed to even conceive of a better reason than that! 

In some circles, energy draining a character is justification for assaulting the DM! (j/k kinem!  You believe me, don't you?? heh  )


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## kinem (Mar 17, 2009)

As Bevin approaches the doorway, he fails to spot a discarded banana peel (a rare import from the southern islands), and steps on it, which causes him to slip.  The short-bearded dwarf tumbles backwards and his head strikes the hard stone floor.  The jarring impact hurts, and it affects his memory, causing him to forget how to cast his more powerful spells (lose 2 levels).

j/k! 

BTW you still have sneak attack on his sheet, which IIRC a beguiler doesn't get.  He never made a melee attack in his life, so I think we can safely toss that.


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## Leif (Mar 18, 2009)

kinem said:


> As Bevin approaches the doorway, he fails to spot a discarded banana peel (a rare import from the southern islands), and steps on it, which causes him to slip.  The short-bearded dwarf tumbles backwards and his head strikes the hard stone floor.  The jarring impact hurts, and it affects his memory, causing him to forget how to cast his more powerful spells (lose 2 levels).
> j/k!
> BTW you still have sneak attack on his sheet, which IIRC a beguiler doesn't get.  He never made a melee attack in his life, so I think we can safely toss that.



Very funny! hahaha 
 
Anyway, I just overlooked the sneak attack stuff, so I'll get it off there soon.  Sorry.  Yeah, Bev made that ONE melee attack!  You remember, back when, uh......... well, shoot, maybe not.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 18, 2009)

Soory for the dealy, got sick.

Will also look for another feat for Girgal.


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## kinem (Mar 18, 2009)

WD, get well soon.


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## Leif (Mar 18, 2009)

Hey, Daddykins, eat a bowl of soup for me, too!  And have big glass of orange juice.


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## kinem (Mar 19, 2009)

Ryan, I hope the car accident wasn't too bad.


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## renau1g (Mar 19, 2009)

kinem said:


> Ryan, I hope the car accident wasn't too bad.




Not bad, my wife was driving and was at a 4-way stop, she proceeded to go when a 16 year old kid driving a F250 decided he didn't need to. Luckily she was able to pull out of the way...mostly, and it only caught her right front bumper, driving it into the wheel. The airbag went off and her shoulder's banged up, but my infant boys are ok (thank God!) and I took yesterday off to help her out.


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## Leif (Mar 19, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Not bad, my wife was driving and was at a 4-way stop, she proceeded to go when a 16 year old kid driving a F250 decided he didn't need to. Luckily she was able to pull out of the way...mostly, and it only caught her right front bumper, driving it into the wheel. The airbag went off and her shoulder's banged up, but my infant boys are ok (thank God!) and I took yesterday off to help her out.



Wow!  Sorry to hear that, Ryan.  I hope the other guy has good insurance!  And that they settle up with you quickly and painlessly.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 20, 2009)

Thanks! Already feeling better 

For the feat: I would like the 'summon elemental' reserve feat from Complete Mage.


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## kinem (Mar 20, 2009)

WD: Hmm ... although that is a reserve feat, I'll allow it.


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## Leif (Mar 21, 2009)

Kinem, does that mean that reserve feats are generally disallowed?  I might be interested in one for Bevin if they are available to Beguilers.  Complete Mage just lists 'ability to cast X level spells' as a prerequisite.


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## kinem (Mar 21, 2009)

I will decide it on a case by case basis.  Minor shapechange is clearly overpowered for a feat, but some are fine.  Let me know which one you want.

A DM can always adjust monsters to make things challenging, but what is more of a problem is keeping PCs somewhat balanced with each other.

I'm not sure how I feel about the feats that give at-will ranged touch attacks.  I'm seen the claim that DMs that don't like warlocks won't like these, but they seem to steal the warlock's thunder.  Sure, warlocks have invocations and metamagic, but casters have their regular spells too.  I don't know what WotC was thinking.  Well, actually I do - unfortunately, it was 4e, which as you know I am not a fan of.

Still, I am trying to minimize house rules - trying for once to try the 3.5 game WotC has given us - so I will probably allow your feat.


----------



## Leif (Mar 21, 2009)

kinem said:


> I will decide it on a case by case basis.  Minor shapechange is clearly overpowered for a feat, but some are fine.  Let me know which one you want.
> 
> A DM can always adjust monsters to make things challenging, but what is more of a problem is keeping PCs somewhat balanced with each other.
> 
> ...



Gosh I don't know, offhand.  However, I very much like _Borne Aloft_, _Fiery Burst_, _Mystic Backlash_, _Storm Bolt_, _Touch of Distraction_, and _Winter's Blast_.   Any of those ok?  I'm not even totally sure if Bevin has the right spells to support most of those, currently.  And there's another problem with reserve feats for spontaneous casters - the feats require that a certain type of spell be available for casting.  In Bevin's case, that would just mean that he has an unused slot of the appropriate level remaining for the day, which makes it seem kinda iffy to me.  I suppose you could require Bevin to have the spell to support the reserve feat 'prepared' ahead of time, which would in effect reduce his slots available for use with other spells on a given day.  (I don't think he would complain too much about that.  Well, not any more than he already complains anyway, that is.)


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## kinem (Mar 21, 2009)

The only one of those Bevin qualifies for is Touch of Distraction.  I'll allow it.


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## Rhun (Mar 21, 2009)

Part of the problem with 3.x is it was designed around the 4 encounters per day idea. As I'm sure you've all seen, PCs often face more than 4 encounters a day, and then the wizards end up with no more spells left to cast...reserve feats help to ensure that a caster will always have something he can do.


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## Leif (Mar 22, 2009)

kinem said:


> The only one of those Bevin qualifies for is Touch of Distraction.  I'll allow it.



That's true, I don't qualify for any others at present.  But when I gain another level, I can take a new spell that will support one of more of them.  Like Fiery Burst, for instance.  All I need for that is a fire spell of at least 2nd level.


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## renau1g (Mar 22, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Part of the problem with 3.x is it was designed around the 4 encounters per day idea. As I'm sure you've all seen, PCs often face more than 4 encounters a day, and then the wizards end up with no more spells left to cast...reserve feats help to ensure that a caster will always have something he can do.




If he/she keeps a spell available of that level, it's hard to leave one of your better spells unused while taking advantage of the feat.

I played a cleric before who had fire as his domain and for level 4 domain spell chose _Fire Shield_ and left it uncast, allowing a 4d6 burst power at-will


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## Walking Dad (Mar 23, 2009)

Thanks for allowing it.

I, for one, like the pathfinder solution for the empty caster more. Enough magic to leave the crossbow behind, but no 'I need to take this'.


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> I, for one, like the pathfinder solution for the empty caster more. Enough magic to leave the crossbow behind, but no 'I need to take this'.



According to my copy of Pathfinder, wizards and sorcerers both are able to cast numbers of spells that are very, very similar to the numbers that 3.5 D&D arcanists can cast.  So what Pathfinder solution are you referring to, please?


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## Walking Dad (Mar 23, 2009)

I mean:

Sorcerer's Bloodline powers (most get a nice attack at 1st level)

Wizard's School powers

Domains for the Cleric (and sometimes druid) (Lightning Arc, Acid Dart)

and unlimited 0 level spellcasting.


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> I mean:
> Sorcerer's Bloodline powers (most get a nice attack at 1st level)
> Wizard's School powers
> Domains for the Cleric (and sometimes druid) (Lightning Arc, Acid Dart)
> and unlimited 0 level spellcasting.



Ahh, yes, I remember those specialist wizard powers now!  And I also thought that wizards got unlimited 0-level spells, but looking now I see on Page 49 that wizards only get a limited number of them per day, ranging from 3 at first level to 4 at 20th level.  Now where did we both get the idea that they were unlimited?


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## Walking Dad (Mar 23, 2009)

Leif said:


> Ahh, yes, I remember those specialist wizard powers now!  And I also thought that wizards got unlimited 0-level spells, but looking now I see on Page 49 that wizards only get a limited number of them per day, ranging from 3 at first level to 4 at 20th level.  Now where did we both get the idea that they were unlimited?



Basically, they choose 3 zero level spells (4 beginning 2nd level) and can cast these an unlimited time/day. It is unlimited, but the variance.


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## renau1g (Mar 23, 2009)

Unlimited Cantrips comes from Paizo's Pathfinder, Spellcasters can cast their orisons/cantrips unlimited times/day (which is why they removed cure minor wounds from the cleric)


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Basically, they choose 3 zero level spells (4 beginning 2nd level) and can cast these an unlimited time/day. It is unlimited, but the variance.



Ok, can you direct me to a page number for that rule?



renau1g said:


> Unlimited Cantrips comes from Paizo's Pathfinder, Spellcasters can cast their orisons/cantrips unlimited times/day (which is why they removed cure minor wounds from the cleric)



Yes, we know. We're discussing the rules of Pathfinder.


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## renau1g (Mar 23, 2009)

Leif said:


> Ok, can you direct me to a page number for that rule?
> 
> Yes, we know. We're discussing the rules of Pathfinder.




Ah I c... next time I'll read the whole thread.


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

Well, actually, renau1g, you can help out by answering this question for me, if you will:



Leif said:


> Ahh, yes, I remember those specialist wizard powers now!  And I also thought that wizards got unlimited 0-level spells, but looking now I see on Page 49 that wizards only get a limited number of them per day, ranging from 3 at first level to 4 at 20th level.  Now where did we both get the idea that they were unlimited?  **PAGE NUMBER, PLEASE??**





And,


renau1g said:


> Ah I c... next time I'll read the whole thread.



hehehe, as your punishment you must help me to learn by rote the entire text of the Pathfinder rulebook!


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## kinem (Mar 23, 2009)

I agree that the Pathfinder approach of revamping the classes from the beginning is much better than WotC's hack of tacking on unbalanced game-changing abilities via feats.

D&D badly needed a new edition!  Unfortunately 4e isn't D&D.  Pathfinder is.


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

I'm not sure that I agree that D&D even needed a new edition.  I could still have great fun playing under old, 1st edition, AD&D rules, and 3.5 is LIGHTYEARS beyond that system.

But both 3.5 ad 4.0 are now no longer possibilities, they are facts.  But, still, I agree with you about Pathfinder, and if there is to no longer be publisher's support for 3.5 D&D, then Pathfinder is the best available choice.

I also agree that 4.0 is NOT D&D as it has been prevously known and understood to be.  However, considering the ownership of the copyrights, it IS, by definition, D&D, whether we like it or not.  And strange as it seems, even to me, I have actually been having a fair amount of fun playing 4E, even though the VAST expense of buying a new edition is about to threaten to put me in the poorhouse!  (At least I'll be happy there while I eat my gruel and battle the cockroaches for a place to sit down?)


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

So, what it all comes down to for me is this:

D&D is FUN!!!!  

Which edition doesn't even seem to matter, in the long run.


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## renau1g (Mar 23, 2009)

Leif said:


> Well, actually, renau1g, you can help out by answering this question for me, if you will:






			
				Pathfinder Beta Handbook said:
			
		

> Cantrips (Sp): Wizards can prepare a number of
> cantrips, or 0-level spells, each day. They can cast these
> spells at will as a spell-like ability. The number of
> cantrips a wizard can prepare each day is noted on Table
> ...




So it appears that they can only prepare X # of spells/day, but once chosen cast them as many times as desired. So they can prepare _Read Magic_, _Detect Magic_, and _Mending_ at 1st level and use them as many times as desired. Therefore, a wizard should almost never be without detect magic "turned on"


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## kinem (Mar 23, 2009)

That's what matters, yes 

Savage Worlds is fun, too, though.  As are 7th Sea, Call of Cthulhu, Serenity RPG, Shadowrun, M&M ... you name it.  Sometimes these are even better than D&D.  None of these are D&D, though, and neither is 4e.


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## Leif (Mar 23, 2009)

renau1g said:


> So it appears that they can only prepare X # of spells/day, but once chosen cast them as many times as desired. So they can prepare _Read Magic_, _Detect Magic_, and _Mending_ at 1st level and use them as many times as desired. Therefore, a wizard should almost never be without detect magic "turned on"



Oh!! Ok!! So, it's the old "prepare" vs. "cast" situation that had me confused.  Don't I feel dumb now.  So then, I guess once a wizard has prepared a cantrip one time, he can cast it from then on without re-preparing in on succeeding days, can't he?  The only time he would need to prepare another cantrip should be when he wants to _change_ a prepared cantrip, or when he gains the ability to cast an additional one each day.  (Which won't happen very often at all.)

Thanks, Ryan!


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## Walking Dad (Mar 24, 2009)

renau1g said:


> So it appears that they can only prepare X # of spells/day, but once chosen cast them as many times as desired. So they can prepare _Read Magic_, _Detect Magic_, and _Mending_ at 1st level and use them as many times as desired. Therefore, a wizard should almost never be without detect magic "turned on"



Thanks for saying it better than I could.



kinem said:


> That's what matters, yes
> 
> Savage Worlds is fun, too, though.  As are 7th Sea, Call of Cthulhu, Serenity RPG, Shadowrun, M&M ... you name it.  Sometimes these are even better than D&D.  None of these are D&D, though, and neither is 4e.



All great games! Would love a Savage Worlds PbP game here...
Oh, and I love All Flesh, too.


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## Leif (Apr 19, 2009)

*Walking Dad*

Kinem, FYI:  http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/254447-my-players-dms-please-read.html

Looks like we've lost another one.  Farewell, WD!


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## kinem (Apr 20, 2009)

Yes, I know.  Hopefully WD'll be back.  At some point I may have to recruit another PC.


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## Jemal (Apr 20, 2009)

hey, how's it going.  I've been back on ENWorld for a little while now and am back into the groove, was wondering if I could get into any of my old games and then when i go to check them out, the first post i see is 



> Yes, I know. Hopefully WD'll be back. At some point I may have to recruit another PC.




fate, mayhap?


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## Leif (Apr 20, 2009)

Jemal said:


> hey, how's it going.  I've been back on ENWorld for a little while now and am back into the groove, was wondering if I could get into any of my old games and then when i go to check them out, the first post i see is
> fate, mayhap?



JEMAL!!! YOU'RE ALIVE!! 

Shoot, we wasted all that time dragging the river and calling the mortuaries!

hehehe


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## kinem (Apr 20, 2009)

Hmm, maybe.

Jemal, would you like to keep Girgal warm for a while?  It won't be long term.

After that, a new PC would be OK.


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## Jemal (Apr 21, 2009)

sure.  RG link to the character?  And i'll have to do a little bit of catching up IC to know what's going on.


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## Leif (Apr 21, 2009)

Jemal said:


> sure.  RG link to the character?



Here you are: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/224234-x4-master-desert-nomads-rg.html

EEEEK!!  Sorry, Jemal, wrong RG!  That's the old one.


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## kinem (Apr 21, 2009)

Tricky, Leif, tricky.  But I think it's a bit too early to start messing with the new guy like that.

Here's the real rogues' gallery:  http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/251972-x5-temple-death-rg.html


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## Jemal (Apr 21, 2009)

ya trixy gnome!


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## Leif (Apr 21, 2009)

hehehe, ya lucked out, Jemal!  Saved by the DM.  Boy, I _almost_ had you there, didn't I? hehehe

Seriously I just messed up.  I don't even know why I still have a subscription to the old RG thread.  Sorry, Jemal, and thanks for catching it, kinem. 

And anyway, kinem, Jemal doesn't really qualify for 'new guy' status, does he??  After all the time he was here before, I'm not sure how he could.


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## kinem (Apr 21, 2009)

Since he left, I think he still must undergo the hazing process we agreed on in his absence.


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## Leif (Apr 21, 2009)

Then it seems to me that letting me steer him to the old RG would have been an excellent start!  But no!  You had to step in and save him!


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## Leif (Apr 23, 2009)

So are we still having Jemal join us, or will it be just Rhun, Leif, and renau1g for the time being?  Funny how people leave, and people re-join, but it's always the same people.  It's the Zero-Sum Campaign from which there is NO ESCAPE!  mwahahahahaha.   Not that anyone would ever WANT to escape anyway, Kinem! hehe


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## Jemal (Apr 23, 2009)

After thinking abotu it, I'm not sure if I can play Girgal.. I've always been a bit uncomfortable with other people's characters.  I'd still really like to play, but..  

Help?


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## renau1g (Apr 23, 2009)

Leif said:


> So are we still having Jemal join us, or will it be just Rhun, Leif, and renau1g for the time being?  Funny how people leave, and people re-join, but it's always the same people.  It's the Zero-Sum Campaign from which there is NO ESCAPE!  mwahahahahaha.   Not that anyone would ever WANT to escape anyway, Kinem! hehe




This sounds like Ravenloft.... did we fall in there?


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## Rhun (Apr 23, 2009)

The bad thing about not being willing to play other people PCs, at least for a while, is that sometimes the group is in the middle of something where you can't add new PCs. And with PBP timeframes, that can last weeks to months.


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## Leif (Apr 23, 2009)

I can certainly understand Jemal's point of view, but I can also understand Kinem wanting to continue the story with the same cast, at least until a more natural breakpoint is reached.  A quandary!  But it is Kinem's game, after all.


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## kinem (Apr 24, 2009)

I'm just trying to keep XPCs / DMPCs to a minimum.

Jemal, 'your' Girgal wouldn't be exactly the same as WD's, but neither is 'mine'.  And not just because I used the opportunity to needle Bevin   And that's OK.

But if you are sure you don't want to do it, go ahead and start on a new character.  I can introduce him by having him wander into the compound at a particular point.

Your background should include one of the following: Either 

- You are a surviving member of the original expedition which was sent by the Republic of Darokin to obtain the Master's war plans, and if possible to find the Crystal Dagger of Cymorakk and use it to assassinate the otherwise immortal Master.  That party was discovered and defeated by the Master's agents.  As far as you know IC, all the other members were presumably killed.  Still, you decided to try to make your way to the Master and take what action you can to disrupt his operation.  [OOC, we know the mission was passed on to the PC party by another survivor, Bishop Guilliame, at the start of X4.]

or

- You are a native of the Sind Desert, and your tribe joined the forces of the Master.  You became one of the Master's elite agents, but they never really trusted you much, and for good reason as you grew disgusted with the Master and his massacres.  You snuck away and decided to head for the Great Pass, planning to make you way to the Master and try to kill him.

In either case, you were looking for the Pass and stumbled on to the monastary.

9th level, 36,000 gp, 32 point buy.


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## Leif (Apr 24, 2009)

FYI

"Needling" Bevin is NOT ok.




mwahahahaha


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## renau1g (Apr 24, 2009)

THat's exactly why Father Fuller does it... or will


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## Leif (Apr 24, 2009)




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## kinem (May 1, 2009)

Let's try to get the game moving.  Bevin did cast a spell and claims it temporarily neutralized the trap.

Jemal, have you decided if you want to come in with a new character, try Girgal, or bow out?


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## Leif (May 1, 2009)

Kinem, Rhun, you both have my sincere apologies for my part in the current IC confusion.


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## Rhun (May 1, 2009)

Leif said:


> Kinem, Rhun, you both have my sincere apologies for my part in the current IC confusion.




No worries. I had just thought we were waiting on Bevin and Father Fuller to decide to come through, but after reading the edited post I saw that action had been shifted back to Aram. 

I've posted new IC for Aram.


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## Jemal (May 1, 2009)

Sry, Sickness + getting my campaigns going had me a bit busy the last few days (Been sleeping 12 hrs a night and feeling like 4  )  But anyways, enough with the excuses eh?  

I'd prefer a new character, I still don't think I'd be comfortable with Girgal.  Please don't feel like you have to hurry to write me in though, I can take my time making it and be ready for whenever you are.

Are there any specific holes you think the party could use filled?


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## Leif (May 1, 2009)

If I may.....  

We can always use another front-line warrior, a dedicated rogue, or a blaster mage.  We've pretty much got the cleric role filled but there are good-sized gaps in all of the others.


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## Rhun (May 1, 2009)

Leif said:


> If I may.....
> 
> We can always use another front-line warrior, a dedicated rogue, or a blaster mage.  We've pretty much got the cleric role filled but there are good-sized gaps in all of the others.




We really have the rogue area mostly covered between Aram and Bevin. Granted, we aren't superb at it, but we have enough skill to do just about any rogue task. And while another Fighter would be nice, I'd prefer we add a blaster-type wizard. The truth is, a few lightning bolts and magic missiles would have come in handy MANY times.


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## Jemal (May 1, 2009)

wizard?  eeeew... dirty word.  
Sorc or warmage work?


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## Rhun (May 1, 2009)

Jemal said:


> wizard?  eeeew... dirty word.
> Sorc or warmage work?





Funny how everyone had different opinions. I prefer true wizards over the other two. But yes, a sorc or warmage would both work for a blaster.


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## Leif (May 1, 2009)

Jemal said:


> wizard?  eeeew... dirty word.
> Sorc or warmage work?




ABSOLUTELY!!   (Those both can be the very definition of 'Blaster Mage" can't they? And that's why I didn't say 'wizard,' before but said simply 'mage,' meaning the broader sense of any arcane class).


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## Rhun (May 1, 2009)

As long as they can make up for Bevin's lack of the old standards, they should do just fine!  

Just giving you a hard time, Leif!


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## Leif (May 1, 2009)

Rhun said:


> As long as they can make up for Bevin's lack of the old standards, they should do just fine!
> 
> Just giving you a hard time, Leif!



really?  who'd-a-thunk it? 

Actually, Rhun does make a very, very good point.  I wanted my Bevin to steer clear of the usual "stand-by" spells, and that was a decision that I quickly came to regret.


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## Jemal (May 2, 2009)

Not sure if you've access to it so I figured I'd give you the heads up and find out before I'm finished - I will likely be taking from Races of the Dragon and/or Dragon Magic if I'm playing a mid-lvl blaster sorc.  If this isn't OK, or if you need more info from either of these books just say so.  I'm also assuming that completes and PHB2 are OK, as I seem to recall players using them with you before.


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## Jemal (May 2, 2009)

OK, been reading through some of my books and I have a question: 

Would you allow a Spellwarp Sniper? (Complete Scoundrel)
It's a mage/rogue that specializes in ray attacks.

Alternately, Unseen Seer from Complete Mage.


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## kinem (May 3, 2009)

Spellwarp Sniper is OK.

For the dragon stuff, let me know what it does, and I'll let you know if it's OK.


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## Rhun (May 3, 2009)

Hey Jermal, also keep in mind that so far we haven't seemed to be in many battles where area of effect spells would have come in handy...not saying you shouldn't have a few, but it seems most fights so far have been in fairly tight quarters.


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## Jemal (May 4, 2009)

hmm, considering my switch to spellwarp sniper, I likely won't be taking much of the dragon stuff.

Most likely Practical Metamagic (Reduce the level adjustment of a single metamagic feat by 1, to a minimum of 1) for Empower Spell.


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## Jemal (May 4, 2009)

Rhun -
No R in Jemal, and as far as AoE vs straight up, as a spellwarp sniper I'll be using 99% rays, but as a sorceror, it would be wrong of me to not know fireball


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## Rhun (May 4, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Rhun -
> No R in Jemal, and as far as AoE vs straight up, as a spellwarp sniper I'll be using 99% rays, but as a sorceror, it would be wrong of me to not know fireball




Total mistype, man. Sorry.


----------



## Jemal (May 4, 2009)

I figured, you've been around long enough to know better.   It just makes me twitchy every time, so I have to point it out *L*


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## Leif (May 4, 2009)

twitch, twitch, twitch!! Reminds me of the little dude on Southpark!


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## renau1g (May 4, 2009)

Tweek... here have some more coffee to calm down.


----------



## Leif (May 4, 2009)

YES!! That's the little twitchy dude!  Thanks renau1g!

You guys have just slain me righteously tonight!  Thaks, renau1g _et al._


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## renau1g (May 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> YES!! That's the little twitchy dude!  Thanks renau1g!
> 
> You guys have just slain me righteously tonight!  Thaks, renau1g _et al._




I live to serve...


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## Rhun (May 4, 2009)

renau1g said:


> I live to serve...





Excellent. Now why don't you go serve me up a new post in RHoD, so Zazz can get his greedy little hands on whatever is in those coffers!


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## Rhun (May 4, 2009)

Leif said:
			
		

> Seeing the great halberd poised above him




How is a bastard sword a pole-arm?


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## Leif (May 4, 2009)

Ooops, my bad, thanks Rhun!  It's been fixed.  (I would have sworn it said "halberd."  )


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## Rhun (May 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> Ooops, my bad, thanks Rhun!  It's been fixed.  (I would have sworn it said "halberd."  )





Its all good, it gave me a laugh.


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## Leif (May 4, 2009)

I'm glad you're easily amused!


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## Jemal (May 5, 2009)

Since Kinem hasn't responded yet, I'd like to amend my previous post about feats I'm interested in.

I've been designing two characters b/c I really like both the sniper and draconic mage ideas, so I'm going to ask for several feats and then see which of the two characters i like better.  Both fill the same 'blaster' roll in the party.

Stuff: (From Races of Dragon and Dragon Magic)
 [sblock=Dragonheart Mage PrC]
Requirements: Spontaneous Arcane casting, Know:Arcana 8 ranks, Draconic Heritage Feat, Draconic language skill.
Gives a dragon's breath attack, where you sacrifice a spell slot to use a breath weapon dealing 2d6 dmg/spell level sacrificed (30' cone of cold), Reflex DC 10+spell lvl sacrificed + charisma.
Damage increases to 2d8/lvl at lvl 6, 3d6@lvl 10.
Gain bonus *draconic* feat at levels 2, 4, 8.
Loose spellcasting at levels 1, 6.
d6 HD, 2 skills/lvl, half BAB, good fort/will.
[/sblock]

[sblock=Dragonblood sorceror]
This is a racial substitution for any sorceror with the dragonblood subtype.  
1st level: Instead of gaining a familiar, you gain draconic heritage as a bonus feat and a + 2 insight bonus to knowledge: Arcana checks.
[/sblock]

[sblock=draconic feats]
My chosen dragon would be silver, so I'm sharing the relevant information as it relates to that choice.
Draconic Heritage: Pre-req for most other draconic feats (And the dragonheart mage prc), requires sorcerer lvl 1.
Gain disguise as sorceror class skill, bonus to saves vs magic sleep, paralysis, or cold effects equal to # of draconic feats.
Draconic Toughness: Gain 2hp/draconic feat
Draconic Power: CL increases by 1, add 1 to the save DC of all arcane spells with the cold subschool/descriptor.
Draconic Resistance: Gain cold resistance equal to 3X # of draconic feats
Draconic Knowledge: All Knowledges are class skills, gain bonus on knowledge checks = # of draconic feats
Draconic Vigor: Whenever you cast an arcane spell, you heal HP = spell's level
Draconic Senses: Gain low-light vision and bonus on search/spot/listen checks = # of draconic feats.  If you have 3 draconic feats, gain darkvision 60; if you have 4, gain blindsense 20.
Draconic Legacy: Requires 4 draconic feats: Add Air walk, Feather Fall, and Wind Wall to list of spells known.
[/sblock]

[sblock=other feats]
Practical Metamagic: Choose one metamagic feat you know, reduce it's spell lvl adjustment by 1 to a miminum of +1.
Spell Rehearsal: Tactical Feat, Allows 2 tactics.
Persistence: Gain cumulative +1 to save DC with every successive casting of a spell that allows a save.
Refined Targeting: Gain cumulative +2 bonus on attack roll with every successive casting of a spell that requires an attack roll
Accelerate Metamagic: One metamagic feat of your choice can be used without increasing the casting time of a spontaneous spell it is added to.
[/sblock]

Once I know what's allowed, I should be able to finish the character in a day or two.


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## kinem (May 5, 2009)

I will allow all of those.

As usual, anything available to PCs is also available to NPCs.  As I am converting an older edition to 3.5 I have to hand-pick all NPC feats.


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## Leif (May 5, 2009)

Eeep!  Mama!


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## Jemal (May 5, 2009)

I also follow the 'mutually assured destruction' mode of GMing. 

I'll post up my character in the next day or two.


----------



## Jemal (May 5, 2009)

BTW, How shall I figure my HP?  max at first level? half? Roll with Invisiblecastle?

*EDIT: Attaching first drafts of my characters, what do people think?*

[sblock=Dragonheart mage]
Kiera Elzmyr, the Silver Stream
Human(Dragonblood) female, Sorcerer 5/Dragonheart Mage 4
AL: CG HT: 5'10" WT: 130 Hair: Long, Silver Eyes: Green

STR: 10 (+0) [2 pts]
DEX: 16 (+3) [6 pts + 2 Enhancement]
CON: 16 (+3) [6 pts + 2 Enhancement]
INT: 14 (+2) [6 pts]
WIS: 12 (+1) [4 pts]
CHA: 22 (+6) [8 pts + 3 lvl + 4 Enhancement]

HP:  (5d4+4d6+41) AC: 17 (10 base + 3 Dex + 4 Mage Armour).  Touch: 13  Flat-Footed: 14
Saves: FORT: +8 (5 Base +3 Con) REF: +7 (2 Base +3 Dex +2 Weasel) WILL: +9 (8 Base +1 Wis)
Init: +3

Bab: 4

Skills(60): 
Concentration(+8/5), Gather Information(+20/10), Listen(+10/2), Search(+10/2), Spellcraft(+16/12), Spot(+15/2), Tumble(+4/1cc), 
Knowledges: Arcana(+15/6), History(+15/6), Dungeoneering(+15/6), Architecture/Engineering(+10/1), Geography(+10/1), Local(+10/1), Nature(+10/1), Nobility(+10/1), Planes(+10/1), Religion(+10/1)

Feats: [5] Eschew Materials, Draconic Toughness(+14 hp), Draconic Knowledge, Draconic Vigor, 1?
Bonus Feats: Draconic Heritage, Draconic Breath, Draconic Power, Draconic Senses

Features: 
Familiar(Weasel - Nevin), Darkvision 60', Blindsense 20', Lowlight Vision, draconic breath (30 foot cone of cold, deals 2d6 dmg/spell level sacrificed.  DC=17+spl lvl)

Spells: 
8th lvl caster, CL 9.
Known : 8/5/3/2/1
Spells per day : 6/8/8/6/4

Save DC = 16 + spell level

0 lvl - Detect Magic, Mending, Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Message

1st lvl -
Magic Missile, Mage Armour, Endure Elements, Alarm, x

2nd lvl - 
Knock, See Invisibility, Web

3rd lvl - 
Fireball, Fly

4th lvl -
Elzmyr's Black Tentacles

Languages: Common, Draconic, Undercommon, Sylvan

Equipment: 36,000 GP 

Cloak of Charisma + 4 (16,000)
Gloves of Dexterity + 2 (4,000)
Periapt of Health + 2 (4,000)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500)
Bag of Holding Type I (2,500)
Summon Familiar (100)
4,400 gp
[/sblock]

[sblock=Spellwarp Sniper]
Kiera Elzmyr, the Silver Stream
Human female, Rogue1/Sorcerer 4/Spellwarp Sniper 4
AL: N HT: 5'10" WT: 130 Hair: Long, Silver Eyes: Green

STR: 10 (+0) [2 pts]
DEX: 20 (+5) [10 pts + 2 Lvl + 2 Enhancement]
CON: 14 (+2) [4 pts + 2 Enhancement]
INT: 14 (+2) [6 pts]
WIS: 10 (+0) [2 pts]
CHA: 18 (+4) [8 pts + 1 lvl + 2 Enhancement]

HP:  (5d6+4d4+18) AC: 19 (10 base + 5 Dex + 4 Mage Armour).  Touch: 15  Flat-Footed: 14
Saves: FORT: +3 (2 Base + 1 Con)  REF: +11 (4 Base + 5 Dex + 2 Weasel) WILL: +8 (8 Base)
Init: +5

Bab: 5
Ray Attack + 10
*Ray of Enfeeblement: +10 touch, 1d6+4 str penalty, 45' range
*Scorching Ray: 2 rays, +10 touch, 4d6 dmg, 45' range
*Fireball Ray: +10 touch, 9d6 dmg, 720' range

Skills(68): Concentration(+10/8), Gather Information(+16/12), Hide(+27/12), Knowledge: Arcana(+10/8), Move Silent(+27/12), Spellcraft(+10/6), Spot(+10/5), Tumble(+10/5), 

Feats: [5] Eschew Materials, Empower Spell, Practical Metamagic(Empower), Point Blank Shot, Spell Rehearsal

Class Features: 
Familiar (Weasel - Nevin), Trapfinding, Sneak Attack +1d6, Sudden Raystrike +2d6, Spellwarp, Precise Shot

Spells: 
8th lvl caster
Known : 8/5/3/2/1
Spells per day : 6/7/7/6/4
Save DC = 14 + spell level

0 lvl - Detect Magic, Mending, Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Message

1st lvl -
Magic Missile, Mage Armour, Endure Elements, Alarm, Ray of Enfeeblement

2nd lvl - 
Scorching Ray, Knock, See Invisibility

3rd lvl - 
Scintilating Sphere, Fly

4th lvl -
Elzmyr's Black Tentacles

Languages: Common, Draconic, Undercommon

Equipment: 36,000 GP 

Cloak of Charisma + 2 (4,000)
Gloves of Dexterity + 2 (4,000)
Belt of Health + 2 (4,000)
Ring of Chameleon Power (12,700)
Boots of Elvenkind (2,500)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500)
Bag of Holding Type I (2,500)
Summon familiar (100)
1,200 gp
[/sblock]


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## kinem (May 5, 2009)

I don't see fireball as a known spell for the sniper ... ?

As usual, hp is max for the 1st HD, and average-rounded-up for each additional HD (so d4 becomes 3, etc.)


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## Jemal (May 5, 2009)

Scintillating Sphere is from spell compendium.  It's the exact same thing as Fireball, except electric damage.


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## Jemal (May 8, 2009)

So just out of curiousity, aprox how long do i have to finalize my character before you'll be wanting to write her in?


----------



## kinem (May 9, 2009)

I am going out of town from the 13-17, so it will probably be a couple of weeks.  OTOH, if you are ready before the 13th, maybe you can meet the others and talk while I'm gone


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## kinem (May 23, 2009)

WD, good to have you back.  Of course you can rejoin.

It shouldn't be too hard to figure out what Girgal used.  I didn't calculate how many charges from the wand but I will or you can.

Jemal, what's up?  Just because WD is back doesn't mean the party can't still use you.  Are you ready?  It shouldn't be too long now.


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## Jemal (May 24, 2009)

yay.    I'll post up my finished sheet soon.


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## Jemal (May 24, 2009)

OK, I've decided to go with the dragonheart mage I think.

[sblock=ooc]
Kiera Elzmyr, the Silver Stream
Human(Dragonblood) female, Sorcerer 5/Dragonheart Mage 4
AL: CG HT: 5'10" WT: 130 Hair: Long, Silver Eyes: Green

STR: 10 (+0) [2 pts]
DEX: 16 (+3) [6 pts + 2 Enhancement]
CON: 16 (+3) [6 pts + 2 Enhancement]
INT: 14 (+2) [6 pts]
WIS: 12 (+1) [4 pts]
CHA: 22 (+6) [8 pts + 3 lvl + 4 Enhancement]

HP: 75 (5d4+4d6+43) AC: 17 (10 base + 3 Dex + 4 Mage Armour).  Touch: 13  Flat-Footed: 14
Saves: FORT: +8 (5 Base +3 Con) REF: +7 (2 Base +3 Dex +2 Weasel) WILL: +9 (8 Base +1 Wis)
Init: +3

Bab: 4

Skills(60): 
Concentration(+9/6), Gather Information(+20/10), Listen(+10/1), Search(+10/1), Spellcraft(+16/12), Spot(+20/6), Tumble(+4/1cc), 
Knowledges: Arcana(+17/5), History(+15/5), Dungeoneering(+15/5), Architecture/Engineering(+11/1), Geography(+11/1), Local(+11/1), Nature(+11/1), Nobility(+11/1), Planes(+11/1), Religion(+11/1)

Feats: [5] Eschew Materials, Draconic Toughness(+16 hp), Draconic Knowledge, Draconic Vigor, Draconic Resistance(Cold Resist 24)
Bonus Feats: Draconic Heritage, Draconic Breath, Draconic Power, Draconic Senses

Features: 
Dragonblood Sorceror(Draconic Heritage, +2 Know: Arcana, No Familiar), Darkvision 60', Blindsense 20', Lowlight Vision, Cold Resist 24
draconic breath (30 foot cone of cold, deals 2d6 dmg/spell level sacrificed.  DC=17+spl lvl)

Spells: 
8th lvl caster, CL 9.
Known : 8/5/3/2/1
Spells per day : 6/8/8/6/4

Save DC = 16 + spell level (+1 Cold)

0 lvl - Detect Magic, Mending, Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Message

1st lvl -
Magic Missile, Mage Armour, Endure Elements, Alarm, x

2nd lvl - 
Knock, See Invisibility, Web

3rd lvl - 
Fireball, Fly

4th lvl -
Elzmyr's Black Tentacles

Languages: Common, Draconic, Undercommon, Sylvan

Equipment: 
Cloak of Charisma + 4 (16,000)
Gloves of Dexterity + 2 (4,000)
Periapt of Health + 2 (4,000)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500)
Bag of Holding Type I (2,500)
4,500 gp
[/sblock]

Any problems? (Still need to spend a bit of gold but can do that easy)


----------



## Leif (May 24, 2009)

Uh-oh!  Looks like Bevin's got some competition!


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## kinem (May 24, 2009)

Jemal, from looking it over:

CHA:  You're 9th level so you only get 2 pts of ability increase from level, not 3.

REF: Weasel bonus?  I assume that was from a familiar you considered, but you have "No Familiar" listed under DB Sorcerer.

I assume Draconic Knowledge has something to do with the high Knowldege skills listed.  I could use details on the Draconic stuff.

What background will you go with?


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## Jemal (May 25, 2009)

> CHA: You're 9th level so you only get 2 pts of ability increase from level, not 3.



whoops, will fix



> REF: Weasel bonus? I assume that was from a familiar you considered, but you have "No Familiar" listed under DB Sorcerer.



Aye, forgot to take the reflex bonus out when I dropped the familiar



> I assume Draconic Knowledge has something to do with the high Knowldege skills listed. I could use details on the Draconic stuff.




All the draconic stuff was detailed in Post 423.
Knowledge gives all knowledges as class skills and +1/draconic feat to knowledge checks.



> What background will you go with?



Will post that up ASAP, wanted to make sure the mechanics were good.


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## Leif (May 27, 2009)

Here's all I've found so far about what Bevin knows of the horn (from post 601 of the X4 IC): 

"Bevin knows that a horn of blasting can be used more than once a day, but doing so is dangerous and can backfire.

Also, he thinks the command word must be spoken just prior to using the attack."

I'm still looking, too ....


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## Rhun (May 27, 2009)

Yeah, I saw that. I don't think we actually heard the command word, so I guess we'll have to figure it out another way. So much for that plan.


----------



## Leif (May 27, 2009)

We know that it is a _Horn of Blasting_ from all-too-personal experience (and some accompanying nosebleeds.....) but we never seem to have actually used _Detect Magic_ on it, though Bevin did say that he wanted to do so at one point.  He never did more that talk about it, though.  I'm not sure that I understand how you use a command word with a _Horn of Blasting_ anyway -- you can't very well say a command word while you have a horn in your mouth, and it's not like there are multiple effects that the horn has.  It seems like just blowing the horn forcefully should be sufficient to activate it.  I don't know, though....


----------



## renau1g (May 27, 2009)

Was the horn from the knight we just fought? If so, FF cast Detect Magic on all the gear.


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## Leif (May 27, 2009)

No, the horn is from before when you were still playing Rajah.  We've already done a Detect Magic on it.  See post #618 of this thread: http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/224316-x4-master-desert-nomads-ic-18.html#post4398177

But I also found this is an sblock in post 601 of the same thread linked above:



			
				kinem said:
			
		

> Bevin knows that a horn of blasting can be used more than once a day, but doing so is dangerous and can backfire.
> 
> Also, he thinks the command word must be spoken just prior to using the attack.





Note that we have been attacked with this horn before, so if the previous weilder spoke a command word where we could hear it, then we know what it is.


----------



## Rhun (May 27, 2009)

Right, detect magic doesn't reveal command words. We know what the horn is, because it was used against us. We just aren't sure how to activate it.


----------



## Leif (May 27, 2009)

Unless we could hear the command word that was spoken when we were attacked with the thing.


----------



## Rhun (May 27, 2009)

I'm certain it is in the old thread, I just have to go find it.


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## Leif (May 27, 2009)

Well, I've been trying!  I found where we detected magic on it, and I found where we were attacked with it, but neither of those posts said anything about the command word, other than that one was said immediately before we were attacked.


----------



## Rhun (May 27, 2009)

Well, either Kinem is wasting our time with his hints, or it is there and we are missing it.  Like I said, I'll take a gander when I have some time.


----------



## Leif (May 27, 2009)

Yes, you are right.  But maybe kinem isn't _intentionally_ wasting our time, only misremembering what we have been told.  Because I found a few places where I fully expected the command word to be revealed, only it was not.  And, like I said before, I did find where _Detect Magic_ was used by Bevin upon all of the gear we got from that encounter, including Bev's _Cloak_ and the _Horn_.


----------



## Rhun (May 27, 2009)

Fair enough.


----------



## Leif (May 27, 2009)

Even so, Rhun, I still hope you prove me wrong!


----------



## Rhun (May 27, 2009)

Leif said:


> Even so, Rhun, I still hope you prove me wrong!




I will endevor to do so.


----------



## Leif (May 27, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I will endevor to do so.



That's oddly comforting, in way....


----------



## Jemal (May 28, 2009)

Here's an Updated Kiera, and I've added her to the Rogue's Gallery.

She's 99% complete, just need to pick 1 more first level spell and figure out what to do with 4,000 gold. *think think*

[sblock=Kiera Elzmyr]
Kiera Elzmyr, the Silver Stream
Human(Dragonblood) female, Sorcerer 5/Dragonheart Mage 4
AL: CG HT: 5'10" WT: 130 Hair: Long, Silver Eyes: Green

STR: 10 (+0) [2 pts]
DEX: 16 (+3) [6 pts + 2 Enhancement]
CON: 16 (+3) [6 pts + 2 Enhancement]
INT: 14 (+2) [6 pts]
WIS: 10 (+0) [2 pts]
CHA: 22 (+6) [10 pts + 2 lvl + 4 Enhancement]

HP: 75 (5d4+4d6+43) AC: 17 (10 base + 3 Dex + 4 Mage Armour).  Touch: 13  Flat-Footed: 14
Saves: FORT: +8 (5 Base +3 Con) REF: +5 (2 Base +3 Dex) WILL: +8 (8 Base)
Init: +3

Bab: 4

Skills(60): 
Concentration(+9/6), Gather Information(+18/10), Listen(+9/1), Search(+9/1), Spellcraft(+16/12), Spot(+19/6), Tumble(+4/1cc), 
Knowledges: Arcana(+17/5), History(+15/5), Dungeoneering(+15/5), Architecture/Engineering(+11/1), Geography(+11/1), Local(+11/1), Nature(+11/1), Nobility(+11/1), Planes(+11/1), Religion(+11/1)

Feats: [5] Eschew Materials, Draconic Toughness(+16 hp), Draconic Knowledge, Draconic Vigor, Draconic Resistance(Cold Resist 24)
Bonus Feats: Draconic Heritage, Draconic Breath, Draconic Power, Draconic Senses

Features: 
Dragonblood Sorceror(Draconic Heritage, +2 Know: Arcana, No Familiar), Darkvision 60', Blindsense 20', Lowlight Vision, Cold Resist 24
draconic breath (30 foot cone of cold, deals 2d6 dmg/spell level sacrificed.  DC=17+spl lvl)

Spells: 
8th lvl caster, CL 9.
Known : 8/5/3/2/1
Spells per day : 6/8/8/6/4

Save DC = 16 + spell level (+1 Cold)

0 lvl - Detect Magic, Mending, Light, Prestidigitation, Mage Hand, Open/Close, Arcane Mark, Message

1st lvl -
Magic Missile, Mage Armour, Endure Elements, Alarm, x

2nd lvl - 
Knock, See Invisibility, Web

3rd lvl - 
Fireball, Fly

4th lvl -
Elzmyr's Black Tentacles

Languages: Common, Draconic, Undercommon, Sylvan

Equipment: 36,000 GP 

Cloak of Charisma + 4 (16,000)
Gloves of Dexterity + 2 (4,000)
Periapt of Health + 2 (4,000)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500)
Bag of Holding Type I (2,500)
4,500 gp

The Elzmyr family has always been full of magical power, and it's an accepted (even celebrated) fact that they have an abundance of draconic blood in their veins. Over the last few generations, that magic has been falling off somewhat, and it has been speculated that this is because there have been no recent archmages, nor have their been (As is rumoured to have happened frequently in times past) new infusions of Draconic blood. The family claims several dragons in their lineage, both Red and Silver.  In fact, there are claims that the Archmage Dar of several generations ago actually BECAME, in all aspects, a true Silver Dragon, and is still alive today, watching over his descendants.  These are, of course, mere speculations with no proof.

Kiera herself is one of the most powerful mages to come out of the elzmyr blood in a century, and has managed to tap into her families ancient lineage, empowered by the draconic blood that flows through her.  It is her hope to revitalize the Elzmyr name by restoring the true power of their draconic heritage.  

When she heard of the Master, she temporarily abandoned her studies to join an expedition sent by the Republic of Darokin to obtain the Master's war plans, find the Crystal Dagger of Cymorakk, and use it to assassinate the otherwise immortal Master. 
They were unfortunately discovered and defeated by the Master's agents, everyone but Kiera killed(So far as she knows). She was able to escape and has been searching for some way to disrupt the Masters plans on her own.
[/sblock]


----------



## renau1g (May 28, 2009)

Jemal said:


> ... figure out what to do with 4,000 gold. *think think*




Donations to the church of Amanautor are always welcome


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## Leif (May 28, 2009)

Don't look now, but we have a budding televangelcleric in our midst!


----------



## Rhun (May 28, 2009)

Leif said:


> Don't look now, but we have a budding televangelcleric in our midst!




You know, Evangelist is a prestige class in Complete Divine!


----------



## renau1g (May 28, 2009)

Rhun said:


> You know, Evangelist is a prestige class in Complete Divine!




Hmmm... it appears that I have a future PrC to look into for Father Fuller, maybe he convince the BBEG to donate his ill-gotten gains as reperations to help the starving children left behind from all the fathers that were killed by his machinations ... or he could just keep the funds for himself and build a golden idol of the sun god.


----------



## kinem (May 28, 2009)

Jemal, looks good.

WD, I'd send you an XP, if I knew how.


----------



## Leif (May 28, 2009)

Rhun said:


> You know, Evangelist is a prestige class in Complete Divine!



Yes, now that you mention it, I recall having seen that, and I remember thinking "Criminy!  That's why I don't like PrCS!"


renau1g said:


> Hmmm... it appears that I have a future PrC to look into for Father Fuller, maybe he convince the BBEG to donate his ill-gotten gains as reperations to help the starving children left behind from all the fathers that were killed by his machinations ... or he could just keep the funds for himself and build a golden idol of the sun god.



I vote for keeping it. 


kinem said:


> Jemal, looks good.
> 
> WD, I'd send you an XP, if I knew how.



Seriously?  Give ENWorld xp by clicking on the scales in the lower left corner of any post.  Any post can only receive xp ONE time, and each ENWorlder has to give xp out to 50 other people before they can give a second xp to the same person again.



			
				Leif said:
			
		

> Have I mentioned lately that I _love_ multiquote?


----------



## Rhun (May 28, 2009)

Leif said:


> Yes, now that you mention it, I recall having seen that, and I remember thinking "Criminy!  That's why I don't like PrCS!"




Personally I think it is a horrible prestige class, but it seems a lot fo them are. Quantity of quality or something.


----------



## renau1g (May 28, 2009)

Yeah, most of them are much worse than the base classes or are super strong, making the choice a no-brainer, with the exception of RP. (Radiant Servent of Pelor?) 

I find that many are very, very specialized. For example a dragon hunting PrC, will be below average relative to the base fighter, except when he fights dragons than the class is so good it makes the encounter much less deadly.

Just my two cents. There are some PrC's that I love (as evidenced by my Shadowbane Stalker) as they provide some really cool/unique characters you wouldn't otherwise see.


----------



## Leif (May 28, 2009)

As a rule, I don't like or even permit PrCs at all in my games.  The current 12th level game being the sole exception to that rule so far.    I guess we'll see how things go there as far as future games go.  So, renau1g, you may well be one of the few (one of the only) players who will _ever_ play a PrC in a game of mine!


----------



## Rhun (May 28, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Yeah, most of them are much worse than the base classes or are super strong, making the choice a no-brainer, with the exception of RP. (Radiant Servent of Pelor?)




There are very few prestige classes that I consider "super strong." Radiant Servant of Pelor is good, but it requires putting points into skills and choosing feats that a normal cleric might not even bother with. Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil, which I am playing in Leif's game, is strong, but again requires the dedication of a significant number of feats for entry into it. So while many are strong, I think that prestige classes should be strong as a trade off for the requirements for entry.

The only prestige class that I've banned outright is Frenzied Berserker. The ability to not die and destroy all of your friends is not one that should be valued in a team game. 



renau1g said:


> I find that many are very, very specialized. For example a dragon hunting PrC, will be below average relative to the base fighter, except when he fights dragons than the class is so good it makes the encounter much less deadly.




This is true. And some of them are only really good for dipping into. Of course, some base classes are the same way.


----------



## Leif (May 28, 2009)

So, if one can "dip" into as many PrCs as desired to optimize a character's power, are the base classes still worth pursuing at high levels?  See, I'd like to see more people not even play PrCs, and I really think that there should AT LEAST be a limit of 2 PrCs for any single pc.


----------



## Rhun (May 28, 2009)

Leif said:


> So, if one can "dip" into as many PrCs as desired to optimize a character's power, are the base classes still worth pursuing at high levels?  See, I'd like to see more people not even play PrCs, and I really think that there should AT LEAST be a limit of 2 PrCs for any single pc.




Base classes are still very playable. Cleric and Druid base classes are stronger than almost any prestige class. And Wizard/Sorcerer is generally just as good as any prestige class. With Fighter and Rogue, though, there is little reason to play for 20 levels. Now, if you allow say Warblade or Swordsage, that would be totally different. Those are definitely worth taking 20 levels in.


----------



## renau1g (May 28, 2009)

I agree with you Rhun. Biggest drawback for the fighter is that the feats don't scale in power to higher level foes. The rogue... not so sure about. I like the high-level rogue abilities. Maybe I just like rogues so I'm quite partial.


----------



## Leif (May 28, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Base classes are still very playable. Cleric and Druid base classes are stronger than almost any prestige class. And Wizard/Sorcerer is generally just as good as any prestige class. With Fighter and Rogue, though, there is little reason to play for 20 levels. Now, if you allow say Warblade or Swordsage, that would be totally different. Those are definitely worth taking 20 levels in.



See, I don't get that.  I mean for fighters the BAB keeps right on going up up up, and for Rogues, the skill points do likewise.  And monsters keep getting tougher and tougher and traps/locks also keep getting more and more diabolical.  So, given the facts that rogue's/fighter's abilities keep progressing at about the same rate as the challenges get more and more challenging, why should it not be worth it to go all the way with those classes?  Does it get boring?  Sure!  But, hey, that's the price you pay!


----------



## Leif (May 28, 2009)

But me?  I'm a Wizard guy.  Which seems kinda funny, since I really have no experience playing a high level wizard.  In fact, my highest level wizard EVER is in Scotley's Island Empire game now, and he's 10th level!  And that's why  I'm really quite excited about playing Iffy, renau1g, both because of his power, and also because I've never played a sorcerer at all!  (That wizard in Scotley's game is a gnome, too:  Gnurl Whiskerling.)


----------



## Rhun (May 28, 2009)

Leif said:


> See, I don't get that.  I mean for fighters the BAB keeps right on going up up up, and for Rogues, the skill points do likewise.  And monsters keep getting tougher and tougher and traps/locks also keep getting more and more diabolical.  So, given the facts that rogue's/fighter's abilities keep progressing at about the same rate as the challenges get more and more challenging, why should it not be worth it to go all the way with those classes?  Does it get boring?  Sure!  But, hey, that's the price you pay!




At higher levels, Clerics and Wizards can accomlish the same things as a rogue or a fighter, and then some. So there isn't as much use for those classes. They can still be fun to play, but their abilities don't scale as well as casters. For example, in JA's Great North game, my 14th level cleric can not only blast the enemy with spells and perform healing, his spells also allow him to regularly outperform the dedicated warriors in the party in melee combat.


----------



## renau1g (May 28, 2009)

Awww....c-u-t-e....


----------



## Rhun (May 28, 2009)

Leif said:


> But me?  I'm a Wizard guy.  Which seems kinda funny, since I really have no experience playing a high level wizard.  In fact, my highest level wizard EVER is in Scotley's Island Empire game now, and he's 10th level!  And that's why  I'm really quite excited about playing Iffy, renau1g, both because of his power, and also because I've never played a sorcerer at all!  (That wizard in Scotley's game is a gnome, too:  Gnurl Whiskerling.)




Wizards have always been a favorite of mine, at least once you get past the first few levels and can cast more than a few spells. I generally prefer them to sorcerers, but sorcerers can be pretty cool too.


----------



## Jemal (May 29, 2009)

**EDIT: LOL, I thought this discussion was from another thread and started talking about my character in your(Leif) Rainbow Mage game.  whoops.**


That's what I like so much about the abjurant champion character - He's a primary fighter who uses mage buffs to put him over the edge.  Normal Buff-mages have the problem of "Dispel me and I'm screwed", whereas if you dispel him, then instead of being a squishy mage he's still a B-grade fighter.



> See, I don't get that. I mean for fighters the BAB keeps right on going up up up, and for Rogues, the skill points do likewise. And monsters keep getting tougher and tougher and traps/locks also keep getting more and more diabolical. So, given the facts that rogue's/fighter's abilities keep progressing at about the same rate as the challenges get more and more challenging, why should it not be worth it to go all the way with those classes? Does it get boring? Sure! But, hey, that's the price you pay!




It's b/c there's so many other ways to get full BAB and lotsa skills.  
the "Whin" character I'm playing in *Leifs* game gets almost everything when he reaches level 20.  BAB 16, CL 17, fairly good skill points (Avg 3+int+human/lvl, with access to fighter, mage, AND monk skills), fair hp (over half d10's with several d8s and only a few d4's).  Sure he doesn't do anything as good as someone dedicated to it, but when you add them all together, he's a monster.

That's not to say there's no reason to take any class high level, it's just that multiclassing has always been the easier way to make your character do what you want it to be able to do.   Heck, some concepts (Like the fighter-mage) are nearly impossible without multiclassing & PRC's.  And they are VERY fun to play.


----------



## Jemal (May 29, 2009)

Two questions for Kinem - 
A: Can I have some of my money just be 'random nonmagical gear in the bag of holding'?  I've used this in several personal games, and it has come to be known as the "bag of random shi..er stuff".  Say 1000 GP worth of mundane gear, and I'll spend the rest on wands/rods?


B: When do i start?


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Jemal said:


> **EDIT: LOL, I thought this discussion was from another thread and started talking about my character in your(Leif) Rainbow Mage game.  whoops.**



hehehe, no worries  (on my end, anyway.  guess kinem might not be too happy about that.)



Jemal said:


> That's what I like so much about the abjurant champion character - He's a primary fighter who uses mage buffs to put him over the edge.  Normal Buff-mages have the problem of "Dispel me and I'm screwed", whereas if you dispel him, then instead of being a squishy mage he's still a B-grade fighter.....That's not to say there's no reason to take any class high level, it's just that multiclassing has always been the easier way to make your character do what you want it to be able to do.   Heck, some concepts (Like the fighter-mage) are nearly impossible without multiclassing & PRC's.  And they are VERY fun to play.



Ok.  Your logic is irrefutable, Jemal.  I just have a mental block, I guess, sometimes.  Every time I level a character up, I generally stick with the same class he's currently progressing in.  To take 1st level in a new class feels like going backwards to me.


Jemal said:


> Two questions for Kinem -
> A: "bag of random shi..er stuff"



hahahahahahahahahaha, too funny!!!


----------



## kinem (May 29, 2009)

Jemal:

A. No.  That would be a powerful ability at essentially no cost.

B. As soon as the others deal with the bones of a little problem.

What would you do if you found the staircase, saw the skeleton running down towards you, and then saw it turn around and run back up?


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

Leif said:


> Ok.  Your logic is irrefutable, Jemal.  I just have a mental block, I guess, sometimes.  Every time I level a character up, I generally stick with the same class he's currently progressing in.  To take 1st level in a new class feels like going backwards to me.




Oh sure, Jemal's logic is irrefutable! 

If you are actually advancing level by level, then yes...sometimes taking a 1st level in a new class feels like going backward. But I'll tell you what feels worse. Taking 5th level in Fighter, and knowing that you get absolutely nothing but +1 BAB. If you took, for example, level 1 in Ranger instead, you get +1 BAB, bonus to your saves, more skills, favored enemy, tracking, etc...and all you lose is 1 hit point (on average, d10 vrs d8).


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Oh sure, Jemal's logic is irrefutable!



So glad that you agree with me!! 


Rhun said:


> If you are actually advancing level by level, then yes...sometimes taking a 1st level in a new class feels like going backward. But I'll tell you what feels worse. Taking 5th level in Fighter, and knowing that you get absolutely nothing but +1 BAB. If you took, for example, level 1 in Ranger instead, you get +1 BAB, bonus to your saves, more skills, favored enemy, tracking, etc...and all you lose is 1 hit point (on average, d10 vrs d8).



Okay, I see your point, but then, if you do it your way, what happens when you get to CL6?  2nd level Ranger probably doesn't add all that much to what you have, either.  I submit to you that it is probably better to just bite the bullet and take Fighter 5 so that you can move on past that "rough patch" and reach the higher levels of the class.  By your logic, every time you came to a bump in the road, you'd turn.  Pretty soon, you'd be doing nothing but spinning around in a circle, seems to me.

PLUS, don't forget that fighters get a bonus feat at 5th, too!


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

Leif said:


> Okay, I see your point, but then, if you do it your way, what happens when you get to CL6?  2nd level Ranger probably doesn't add all that much to what you have, either.  I submit to you that it is probably better to just bite the bullet and take Fighter 5 so that you can move on past that "rough patch" and reach the higher levels of the class.  By your logic, every time you came to a bump in the road, you'd turn.  Pretty soon, you'd be doing nothing but spinning around in a circle, seems to me.
> 
> PLUS, don't forget that fighters get a bonus feat at 5th, too!




Fighters DO NOT get a bonus feat at 5th level in 3E; they get one at 4th, and one at 6th. 5th level is a dead slot. You may be thinking Pathfinder rules. 

I'm not arguing that if you want a dedicated fighter you need to bite the bullet and keep leveling; just saying that there are many ways to go, and straight fighter is not always the best choise. Almost every class gets a bonus of some sort at each level, except the fighter. Which is one of the reasons I really prefer the Pathfinder Fighter.


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Fighters DO NOT get a bonus feat at 5th level in 3E; they get one at 4th, and one at 6th. 5th level is a dead slot. You may be thinking Pathfinder rules.



NOT!  Just got my odds and evens confused.


Rhun said:


> I'm not arguing that if you want a dedicated fighter you need to bite the bullet and keep leveling; just saying that there are many ways to go, and straight fighter is not always the best choise. Almost every class gets a bonus of some sort at each level, except the fighter. Which is one of the reasons I really prefer the Pathfinder Fighter.



Hmmmm, I'll try to remember that.  (And force you to play a straight-classed 5th level fighter at every available opportunity!   )


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

Leif said:


> Hmmmm, I'll try to remember that.  (And force you to play a straight-classed 5th level fighter at every available opportunity!   )




I'm playing one right now in Strahd's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game. Straight 5th level fighter. Believe me, I looked and looked and looked for something else to do for 5th level, but nothing fit the concept of where I was going with the PC except fighter. So I do know how it feels. LOL.


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I'm playing one right now in Strahd's Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil game. Straight 5th level fighter. Believe me, I looked and looked and looked for something else to do for 5th level, but nothing fit the concept of where I was going with the PC except fighter. So I do know how it feels. LOL.



Yeah, but that's only ONE.  I want someday to reach a point where ALL of your characters are plain-Jane 5th level fighters!


----------



## renau1g (May 29, 2009)

Preferably Human fighters, that way you get 3 feats at lvl 1


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Preferably Human fighters, that way you get 3 feats at lvl 1



THREE FEETS?  They're all DEFORMED!! :O


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Preferably Human fighters, that way you get 3 feats at lvl 1





Well, my 5th level fighter in Strahd's game is actually a dwarf...but let me tell you, he is a monster in combat. Poor goblins and hobgoblins. LOL.


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Well, my 5th level fighter in Strahd's game is actually a dwarf...but let me tell you, he is a monster in combat. Poor goblins and hobgoblins. LOL.



What sort of weapon does he use?  Is he a battleaxe kind of a guy?


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

Leif said:


> What sort of weapon does he use?  Is he a battleaxe kind of a guy?





Greatsword+1, named _Anrak_ (Foehammer in dwarven). I just tried to get it upgrade to say shocking or such, but we didn't have enough cash.


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Greatsword+1, named _Anrak_ (Foehammer in dwarven). I just tried to get it upgrade to say shocking or such, but we didn't have enough cash.



"Foehammer"... that rings a bell.  Wasnt' that the translation of either Glamdring or Ocrist from The Hobbitt?

And, lucky you, Dwarves are just _barely_ big enough to use a size M Greatsword and get the big ol' damage, aren't they?


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

Leif said:


> "Foehammer"... that rings a bell.  Wasnt' that the translation of either Glamdring or Ocrist from The Hobbitt?




Yes, more of less. Elrond refers to Glamdring as "Foe-hammer that the king of Gondolin once wore." Of course, the goblins simply call it "Beater."


----------



## Rhun (May 29, 2009)

Leif said:


> And, lucky you, Dwarves are just _barely_ big enough to use a size M Greatsword and get the big ol' damage, aren't they?




Hey, they are size M creatures regardless of height, and a greatsword is a size M weapon. 

Of course, my half-giant psychic warrior Orinar in Mark Chance's game wields a size L greatsword, even though he is still only size M. 3d6 isn't bad base damage for a level 2 character.


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Yes, more of less. Elrond refers to Glamdring as "Foe-hammer that the king of Gondolin once wore." Of course, the goblins simply call it "Beater."



Ahh, yes!  And they called Ocrist, carried by Thorin Oakenshield in the book if memory serves, "Biter."   It's all coming back to me now.


----------



## Leif (May 29, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Hey, they are size M creatures regardless of height, and a greatsword is a size M weapon.
> 
> Of course, my half-giant psychic warrior Orinar in Mark Chance's game wields a size L greatsword, even though he is still only size M. 3d6 isn't bad base damage for a level 2 character.



Cool.  I'm not even going to ask why a psychic warrior needs a big sword.


----------



## Jemal (May 31, 2009)

kinem said:


> What would you do if you found the staircase, saw the skeleton running down towards you, and then saw it turn around and run back up?




Whoops, was that one directed at me too?

Er.. Kiera would probably shriek in surprise as it ran towards her, then cautiously follow it up out of insane curiosity.


----------



## Rhun (May 31, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Whoops, was that one directed at me too?
> 
> Er.. Kiera would probably shriek in surprise as it ran towards her, then cautiously follow it up out of insane curiosity.





It is a pretty damn big skeleton, after all! LOL. I'd probably shriek too.


----------



## Leif (May 31, 2009)

Rhun said:


> It is a pretty damn big skeleton, after all! LOL. I'd probably shriek too.



Skip the "probably" part for Bevin!


----------



## Rhun (May 31, 2009)

Leif said:


> Skip the "probably" part for Bevin!




Yes, I think Bevin has been known to shriek many times.


----------



## Leif (May 31, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Yes, I think Bevin has been known to shriek many times.



Hey!! Bevin resembles that remark.


----------



## Leif (Jun 1, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Oh sure, Jemal's logic is irrefutable!
> 
> If you are actually advancing level by level, then yes...sometimes taking a 1st level in a new class feels like going backward. But I'll tell you what feels worse. Taking 5th level in Fighter, and knowing that you get absolutely nothing but +1 BAB. If you took, for example, level 1 in Ranger instead, you get +1 BAB, bonus to your saves, more skills, favored enemy, tracking, etc...and all you lose is 1 hit point (on average, d10 vrs d8).



Anyway, I thought that 3.5/Pathfinder Rangers had d10 hit dice.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 1, 2009)

Pathfinder yes, 3.5e no, unfortunately.


----------



## Leif (Jun 1, 2009)

renau1g said:


> pathfinder yes, 3.5e no, unfortunately.



arrrghhhhh!!!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 1, 2009)

Leif said:


> arrrghhhhh!!!





Looks like we need to all get together and make Leif a cheat sheet of which rules apply where!


----------



## Leif (Jun 1, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Looks like we need to all get together and make Leif a cheat sheet of which rules apply where!



I'll probably just lose it.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 1, 2009)

Leif said:


> I'll probably just lose it.





Excellent point.


----------



## Leif (Jun 3, 2009)

Rhun said:
			
		

> Hey Leif, what's up with your dislike of all the good spells?




I don't need a dervish giving me advice on what spells to pick, thank you very much!  I just don't like Glitterdust.  The reason that I avoided taking magic missile had more to do with me wanting to make Bevin a dedicated enchanter.  Yeah, this turned out to be the wrong game for that, didn't it?  I'm not really happy with things, and for about 2 coppers I'd quit this game.  But it is fascinating, in a morbid sort of way, to see just how badly Bevin can get screwed. hehehehe

You know, the whole idea of a Dwarf wizard is kinda crazy anyway, so I thought why not make everything about Bevin be on the weird side.  At least kinem allowed the switch from wizard to beguiler.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 3, 2009)

Leif said:


> I don't need a dervish giving me advice on what spells to pick, thank you very much!  I just don't like Glitterdust.  The reason that I avoided taking magic missile had more to do with me wanting to make Bevin a dedicated enchanter.  Yeah, this turned out to be the wrong game for that, didn't it?  I'm not really happy with things, and for about 2 coppers I'd quit this game.  But it is fascinating, in a morbid sort of way, to see just how badly Bevin can get screwed. hehehehe




I only play a dervish in this one game. 



Leif said:


> You know, the whole idea of a Dwarf wizard is kinda crazy anyway, so I thought why not make everything about Bevin be on the weird side.  At least kinem allowed the switch from wizard to beguiler.




While tradionally weird, from a numbers standpoint a dwarf actually makes a surprisingly good wizard.


----------



## Leif (Jun 3, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I only play a dervish in this one game.



Did I say 'dervish'?  I meant 'butthole.' 


			
				Rhun said:
			
		

> While tradionally weird, from a numbers standpoint a dwarf actually makes a surprisingly good wizard.



Maybe, if you totally ignore how magic-resistant dwarves are.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 3, 2009)

Leif said:


> Maybe, if you totally ignore how magic-resistant dwarves are.




Exactly...less chance of their spells being turned around on them.


----------



## kinem (Jun 3, 2009)

Leif said:


> The reason that I avoided taking magic missile had more to do with me wanting to make Bevin a dedicated enchanter.  Yeah, this turned out to be the wrong game for that, didn't it?




Not necessarily.  There have been a number of opponents immune to mind affecting spells, but also many that were not.  Bevin was very effective against the human commander the party fought just before this.



> I'm not really happy with things, and for about 2 coppers I'd quit this game.  But it is fascinating, in a morbid sort of way, to see just how badly Bevin can get screwed. hehehehe






Feel like talking about it, Leif?  Why are you not happy with the game?


----------



## Leif (Jun 3, 2009)

kinem said:


> Not necessarily.  There have been a number of opponents immune to mind affecting spells, but also many that were not.



Many?  A couple, maybe, some even, but I think 'many' may be stretching it just a tad.


			
				kinem said:
			
		

> Bevin was very effective against the human commander the party fought just before this.



Ok, that's one.


			
				kinem said:
			
		

> Feel like talking about it, Leif?



No, not really. 


			
				kinem said:
			
		

> Why are you not happy with the game?



   I'm just having my weekly bitch session.  Nothing to worry about.   Witness the frequency with which I post to your threads, kinem.  Feel better yet?


----------



## Rhun (Jun 3, 2009)

One big, happy adventuring party! 

Also note...there have been at least a couple of encounters, including the current one, in which Aram's scimitars aren't the best weapons in the world too.


----------



## Leif (Jun 3, 2009)

"Yeee Ha, Ya Hooo!" quoth the enthusiastically rabid Dwarf Beguiler.

Or, even better, in the words of Bruce Willis as John McClean, 

"Yippie Ki Ay M***** F*****"


----------



## kinem (Jun 4, 2009)

OK.  Good to hear that.  

In the next module, there are some undead and such, but not as many I would say.

I have had good games go bad - with players hanging in, not out of enjoyment, but to fight a war of wills with the DM - and it can become more aggravating than you might expect.  We have had a good run and I would rather call the game than let that happen here, so I hope you will tell me if there is trouble brewing rather than let it stew.

I have had some real life problems recently and don't need more aggravation.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

I'm still enjoying the game, so I'm good with continuing.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Me too... Father Fuller is fun... sort of a fumblin' fella.


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

No problems here, bossman.  Sorry for my 'tude before.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Cool, everyone is good and happy.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 4, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Me too... Father Fuller is fun... sort of a fumblin' fella.




Clerics and druids are always fun...


CoD zillla !!!!!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Clerics and druids are always fun...
> 
> 
> CoD zillla !!!!!




You know, I've never been a big fan of druids. I love clerics, but druids just don't do it for me.


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

I used to get a real charge out of druids!  But that was back in the AD&D, 1E days when clerics couldn't use edged weapons and had to stick with maces, flails, and clubs.  Druids, of course, could use scimitars, which was cool.  Back in those days, weapon damage was nowhere near as equalized as it is in 3.5E, so a weapon that did a d8 of damage was quite highly sought after!

But, like I said, that was then, and this is now.  With the 3.5 rules, clerics are FAR more playable, imho, than are druids.  However, if we talk 4E, then I have to say that BOTH Clerics and Druids make the very tippy top of my favorite class list!


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Yeah Clerics are pretty groovy in 3.5 - 4e, RIghteous Brand FTW!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> I used to get a real charge out of druids!  But that was back in the AD&D, 1E days when clerics couldn't use edged weapons and had to stick with maces, flails, and clubs.  Druids, of course, could use scimitars, which was cool.  Back in those days, weapon damage was nowhere near as equalized as it is in 3.5E, so a weapon that did a d8 of damage was quite highly sought after!




Perhaps, but there were A LOT of rules back then that few people used. Weapon damage vrs Smal/Medium and weapon damage vrs Large creatures was different, so you had to plan for that. Weapon Speed Factors. Etc. Most people never played with those tules.



Leif said:


> But, like I said, that was then, and this is now.  With the 3.5 rules, clerics are FAR more playable, imho, than are druids.  However, if we talk 4E, then I have to say that BOTH Clerics and Druids make the very tippy top of my favorite class list!




In 3E, druids are still generally considered stronger than clerics, and I think that is for their wildshape ability. Clerics have the upper hand in spells, in my opinion. And 4E I wouldn't know about.



renau1g said:


> Yeah Clerics are pretty groovy in 3.5 - 4e, RIghteous Brand FTW!




Righteous Might + Divine Power FTW!


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Perhaps, but there were A LOT of rules back then that few people used. Weapon damage vrs Smal/Medium and weapon damage vrs Large creatures was different, so you had to plan for that. Weapon Speed Factors. Etc. Most people never played with those rules.



Yes, I never used speed factors, well a few times, but it just wasn't worth the hassle.  But Scimitars did 1-8 vs. S/M opponents AND 1-8 vs. L oppenents.  Maces did 2-7 vs. S/M, and 1-6 vs. L.  Longswords did 1-8 vs. S/M and 1-12 vs. L, which made the longsword EVERYBODY'S weapon of choice, if their character could use one.  3.5 is MUCH more democratic to the rest of the weapons chart, and this is a very good thing.

This made a Druid, weilding a scimitar, more effective against a large opponent like an ogre, than a cleric weilding a mace, because he did 1-8 damage as opposed to 1-6 for the cleric.  It may not seem like much difference now, but at the time it seemed like a big ol' difference to me.




			
				Rhun said:
			
		

> In 3E, druids are still generally considered stronger than clerics, and I think that is for their wildshape ability. Clerics have the upper hand in spells, in my opinion. And 4E I wouldn't know about.



Not sure if I agree with this or not if you take wildshape out of the equation. 4E?  Well, I've tried to get you interested! 



			
				Rhun said:
			
		

> Righteous Might + Divine Power FTW!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> Yes, I never used speed factors, well a few times, but it just wasn't worth the hassle.  But Scimitars did 1-8 vs. S/M opponents AND 1-8 vs. L oppenents.  Maces did 2-7 vs. S/M, and 1-6 vs. L.  Longswords did 1-8 vs. S/M and 1-12 vs. L, which made the longsword EVERYBODY'S weapon of choice, if their character could use one.  3.5 is MUCH more democratic to the rest of the weapons chart, and this is a very good thing.
> 
> This made a Druid, weilding a scimitar, more effective against a large opponent like an ogre, than a cleric weilding a mace, because he did 1-8 damage as opposed to 1-6 for the cleric.  It may not seem like much difference now, but at the time it seemed like a big ol' difference to me.




Well, much more effective is open to interpration, as a 1d8 vrs 1d6 is only a single point of damage on average (3.5 vrs 4.5). And 2-7 vrs 1-8 has the same average damage. Also, there were rules charts as to how weapons performed against certain types of armor and ACs...which could have changed the dynamic too, if you used those rules. 



Leif said:


> 4E?  Well, I've tried to get you interested!




Sorry man, no real interest. From what I've seen of 4E on these boards, there is a lot I really don't like. One of these days I might cave, though. We'll have to see.


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Well, much more effective is open to interpration, as a 1d8 vrs 1d6 is only a single point of damage on average (3.5 vrs 4.5). And 2-7 vrs 1-8 has the same average damage. Also, there were rules charts as to how weapons performed against certain types of armor and ACs...which could have changed the dynamic too, if you used those rules.



Yes, the weapon vs. AC table was consigned to the scrap heap along with weapon speed factors.   And one thing that made that difficult to use was that it didn't take magical enhancements or dex adjustments into account, it was only based on the type of actual armor worn, so it could only be used effectively by the DM, not players, who had no knowledge of certain necessary info.  This just made a big headache for the DM, for very precious little gain.  And, like I said, it SEEMED significant at the time.  Remember, I was about 12 or 13 then.  



			
				Rhun said:
			
		

> Sorry man, no real interest. From what I've seen of 4E on these boards, there is a lot I really don't like. One of these days I might cave, though. We'll have to see.



Have it your way.  But there are really, truly at least as many improvements to the game as there are troublesome spots.  Actually, to tell the truth, I haven't seen any of these supposed "trouble spots" in either 3.5 or 4E.  They're just different games and they are not directly comparable.  If you evaluate each on its own terms, which is really the only fair way to do things, then I think that both emerge from the comparison spotless and as winners!  I want BOTH!!!


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Agreed. I play 4e in RL and 3.5e here on the boards, besides the occasional game I run for my wife and friend (it's really slowed down in the last few months, stupid work).


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> Yes, the weapon vs. AC table was consigned to the scrap heap along with weapon speed factors.   And one thing that made that difficult to use was that it didn't take magical enhancements or dex adjustments into account, it was only based on the type of actual armor worn, so it could only be used effectively by the DM, not players, who had no knowledge of certain necessary info.  This just made a big headache for the DM, for very precious little gain.  And, like I said, it SEEMED significant at the time.  Remember, I was about 12 or 13 then.




I'm not saying I used them much either...just pointing out that they were there, and that if they were actually used it changed combat quite a bit. If I started throwing out 3E rules, I could change combat a lot too. 



Leif said:


> Have it your way.  But there are really, truly at least as many improvements to the game as there are troublesome spots.  Actually, to tell the truth, I haven't seen any of these supposed "trouble spots" in either 3.5 or 4E.  They're just different games and they are not directly comparable.  If you evaluate each on its own terms, which is really the only fair way to do things, then I think that both emerge from the comparison spotless and a winners!  I want BOTH!!!




I'm not saying there is anything wrong with 4E. It just seems very "video-gamey" for lack of a better term. It took me several years after 3E was out to switch to it...so it may just take me a while to switch to 4E too.


----------



## kinem (Jun 4, 2009)

Personally, I don't much like wildshape, I don't like summoning spells, and I don't like animal companions.

But druids?  They still kick ass in 3.5 or Pathfinder.  They have a great spell list with the spell compendium, decent combat ability, and other abilities.  I like the idea of an elementalist druid, which I built in Pathfinder for a game that never got off the ground here.

4e?  My views are well known I would think.  Not simulationist enough, no interesting magic (it all just does damage or moves people around the chess board), and not what I call D&D.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I'm not saying I used them much either...just pointing out that they were there, and that if they were actually used it changed combat quite a bit. If I started throwing out 3E rules, I could change combat a lot too.




I used those rules back in the day, the speed factor, etc. I played BGII before I actually played D&D so I kind of got used to those things and our DM was pretty interested in having those rules in place. It made things interesting and I carried a variety of weapons depending on our foe. It was cool.


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

kinem said:


> Personally, I don't much like wildshape, I don't like summoning spells, and I don't like animal companions..



Let's see, you hate Wildshape [Girgal}, Summoning Spells [Bevin], and animal companions [Girgal again].  So the only players in the game that you like are Aram and Father Fuller????  I'm calling the EEOC!! 


Rhun said:


> I'm not saying I used them much either...just pointing out that they were there, and that if they were actually used it changed combat quite a bit. If I started throwing out 3E rules, I could change combat a lot too.
> 
> I'm not saying there is anything wrong with 4E. It just seems very "video-gamey" for lack of a better term. It took me several years after 3E was out to switch to it...so it may just take me a while to switch to 4E too.



I think the whole idea is for 4E to be more "video gamey", to compete with video games like World of Warcraft.  My cousin's husband is heavily into WoW, and was showing me how to play.  I told him, this is just like D&D!  You ought to let me show you how to play that!  He said, "But is D&D all just 'text based'?  Nahhh, not interested.  I like to SEE the mosters die!"  But, truly, the descriptive attack effects that are in 4E should probably be applied to 3.5E as well, because more colorful descriptions would make the game much more interesting than, "You did 12 hp damage."  But, ENWorld has gone a long way towards helping that transformation occur, because when you have to write out descriptions for EVERYTHING as you must do on the Boards to get your point across, it forces DMs to reach down deep in their cavernous brains and come out with some just pretty cool stuff.


renau1g said:


> Agreed. I play 4e in RL and 3.5e here on the boards, besides the occasional game I run for my wife and friend (it's really slowed down in the last few months, stupid work).



Yeah, I think you should just quit.  Tell you're wife that if she supports you, then you'll have LOTS more time to DM for her!     Who knows, she might buy it!


renau1g said:


> I used those rules back in the day, the speed factor, etc. I played BGII before I actually played D&D so I kind of got used to those things and our DM was pretty interested in having those rules in place. It made things interesting and I carried a variety of weapons depending on our foe. It was cool.



BGII????


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> Let's see, you hate Wildshape [Girgal}, Summoning Spells [Bevin], and animal companions [Girgal again].  So the only players in the game that you like are Aram and Father Fuller????  I'm calling the EEOC!!




Excellent. I'm glad to be in the good column again (Rajah was clearly a summoner/companion type) 




Leif said:


> Yeah, I think you should just quit.  Tell you're wife that if she supports you, then you'll have LOTS more time to DM for her!     Who knows, she might buy it!




If only the bank didn't make us pay them back all that money we owe them for our house I'd be all set... I need a government bailout like GM 




Leif said:


> BGII????




Baldur's Gate II, my favourite CRPG on the PC. It used the 2e rules, but added some other things like barbarians & monks. Great story, interesting NPC's, hours and hours of side-quests...yes lots of fun.


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Excellent. I'm glad to be in the good column again (Rajah was clearly a summoner/companion type)



Ooops, I forgot all about Rajah, but you're right!



			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> If only the bank didn't make us pay them back all that money we owe them for our house I'd be all set... I need a government bailout like GM



Hey!  NOT like GM!!  Get YOUR OWN government to bail you out!!!  We Americans have enough problems of our own, trust me.



			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> Baldur's Gate II, my favourite CRPG on the PC. It used the 2e rules, but added some other things like barbarians & monks. Great story, interesting NPC's, hours and hours of side-quests...yes lots of fun.



Oh, wow!  Is it online or do you buy a cd somewhere?


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> Hey!  NOT like GM!!  Get YOUR OWN government to bail you out!!!  We Americans have enough problems of our own, trust me.




Oh, my government has pledged like $9 billion to GM, a foreign company, to try and keep the 2 plants we have here open. It's costing the taxpayers, around $150k/job.



Leif said:


> Oh, wow!  Is it online or do you buy a cd somewhere?




It is a cd, you can grab it on eBay, the game is from 2000, although I still enjoy it:
BioWare: Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn

BALDUR's GATE II 2 SHADOWS of AMN 4-DISC CD-ROM PC IBM on eBay.ca (item 350209029955 end time 01-Jul-09 14:56:53 EDT)


----------



## Leif (Jun 4, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Oh, my government has pledged like $9 billion to GM, a foreign company, to try and keep the 2 plants we have here open. It's costing the taxpayers, around $150k/job.



I don't know what to say, man.  That seems even more stupid than what our government does.


			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> It is a cd, you can grab it on eBay, the game is from 2000, although I still enjoy it:
> BioWare: Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn
> 
> BALDUR's GATE II 2 SHADOWS of AMN 4-DISC CD-ROM PC IBM on eBay.ca (item 350209029955 end time 01-Jul-09 14:56:53 EDT)



Wow, thanks man!  Do you need a joystick to play properly?  Or can girls play too? hehehehehe I did NOT say that!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> I think the whole idea is for 4E to be more "video gamey", to compete with video games like World of Warcraft.  My cousin's husband is heavily into WoW, and was showing me how to play.  I told him, this is just like D&D!  You ought to let me show you how to play that!  He said, "But is D&D all just 'text based'?  Nahhh, not interested.  I like to SEE the mosters die!"  But, truly, the descriptive attack effects that are in 4E should probably be applied to 3.5E as well, because more colorful descriptions would make the game much more interesting than, "You did 12 hp damage."  But, ENWorld has gone a long way towards helping that transformation occur, because when you have to write out descriptions for EVERYTHING as you must do on the Boards to get your point across, it forces DMs to reach down deep in their cavernous brains and come out with some just pretty cool stuff.





I've never told a PC "You did 12 points of damage!" LOL. Even in the tabletop games I've played, I give creative descriptions. I think that is something to blame on individual DMs, and not on the game itself.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

renau1g said:


> It is a cd, you can grab it on eBay, the game is from 2000, although I still enjoy it:
> BioWare: Baldur’s Gate II: Shadows of Amn




I played the BG and BG2 console games, but I don't think they were much like the one you are talking about right?


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Leif said:


> I don't know what to say, man.  That seems even more stupid than what our government does.
> 
> Wow, thanks man!  Do you need a joystick to play properly?  Or can girls play too? hehehehehe I did NOT say that!




Wow... nice... no it's using keyboard and mouse, you can pause game anytime to give your PC's actions (so every round you can have spellcasters cast different spells)




Rhun said:


> I've never told a PC "You did 12 points of damage!" LOL. Even in the tabletop games I've played, I give creative descriptions. I think that is something to blame on individual DMs, and not on the game itself.




Indeed, 4e doesn't _necesarily_ fix that, I know one guy in my RL group keeps saying with his ranger, I use my twin strike, as he rolls the two dice...


----------



## renau1g (Jun 4, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I played the BG and BG2 console games, but I don't think they were much like the one you are talking about right?




No... nothing like that. Bioware made the Computer version and it's too good to be true... j/k.

But it plays like an epic RP game and there's consequences to every action. Also, it's pretty hard, like pull no punches don't mess with that dragon hard...


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

renau1g said:


> No... nothing like that. Bioware made the Computer version and it's too good to be true... j/k.
> 
> But it plays like an epic RP game and there's consequences to every action. Also, it's pretty hard, like pull no punches don't mess with that dragon hard...




Cool, cool. Sounds pretty sweet.


----------



## Jemal (Jun 4, 2009)

> I think the whole idea is for 4E to be more "video gamey", to compete with video games like World of Warcraft. My cousin's husband is heavily into WoW, and was showing me how to play. I told him, this is just like D&D! You ought to let me show you how to play that! He said, "But is D&D all just 'text based'? Nahhh, not interested. I like to SEE the mosters die!" But, truly, the descriptive attack effects that are in 4E should probably be applied to 3.5E as well, because more colorful descriptions would make the game much more interesting than, "You did 12 hp damage." But, ENWorld has gone a long way towards helping that transformation occur, because when you have to write out descriptions for EVERYTHING as you must do on the Boards to get your point across, it forces DMs to reach down deep in their cavernous brains and come out with some just pretty cool stuff.




Thankfully I've only ever played with one DM that described combat like that, IRL.  For the most part everyone I've gamed with goes the extra meter and actually describes stuff.. not always in as much detail as we do here on ENWorld(though sometimes), but at the very least "You swing your sword at the dragon, drawing a shallow slice for 12 damage."  Some of the better games I've had 3.0/3.5 were more akin to storytelling with the amount of description that got thrown around, both by players and DM's.  I've had entire hours-long gaming sessions where not a die was rolled.

For example, when we play epic IRL, we don't do it b/c we want to obliterate armies (well, OK not JUST because we want to obliterate armies), we do it because describing what Epic Characters do is just plain fun!  It's like living out a *truley* heroic adventure.

I've seen nothing about 4e that makes it either more OR less descriptive.  I am simply not fond of it.  I've tried it out a few times, and it's an interesting system, but I say that like I say World of Darkness, or Gurps, etc, are interesting systems.  I just don't see it as D&D.  Heck, I think of WoW as being closer to my view of D&D than I do 4e.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 4, 2009)

Jemal said:


> I just don't see it as D&D.  Heck, I think of WoW as being closer to my view of D&D than I do 4e.




Wow (not WoW)...those are strong words.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 5, 2009)

kinem said:


> Personally, I don't much like wildshape, I don't like summoning spells, and I don't like animal companions.
> 
> ...



Sad to be not liked by the DM  ()

And hey, no need to start an edition war. We are all friends here...

(BTW, wildshape need much cheesy stuff to become so great..., Girgal isn't overpowering, is he?)


----------



## renau1g (Jun 5, 2009)

I think the ppl on this thread are pretty mellow in their distaste for 4e. It's not quite so vitriolic as most other places I've seen, a rationale listing of the items they dislike. 

I think that both classes have the most cheezy-ness, if the player wants it and the DM allows it (like Divine Meta-Magic Feats)


----------



## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

I actually don't have issue with Divine Metamagic Feats. I mean, things can get out of hand...Divine Metamagic Persistant Spell is one way...but you literally have to dump all your feats into extra turn attempts to make it work.


----------



## Leif (Jun 5, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Girgal isn't overpowering, is he?)



Yeah, I think he is.  That's why Bevin likes to hide behind him.    (Or, at least he would, if following Girgal didn't mean always stepping in dinosaur droppings!)


----------



## Rhun (Jun 5, 2009)

Girgal is definitely tough, but I wouldn't call him overpowered.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 10, 2009)

Pssttt... Rhun.

I'm sure Father Fuller has the spells of legends, but which one in particular? Zone of Truth?


----------



## Rhun (Jun 10, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Pssttt... Rhun.
> 
> I'm sure Father Fuller has the spells of legends, but which one in particular? Zone of Truth?




Zone of Truth, Know Alignment...hey, even Detect Evil might be good enough for Aram.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 10, 2009)

Oh, and for Walking Dad: my original ploy in showing the dagger was the hopes that if Keira was a servant of the Master, she would attack or try to escape, and we could just deal with her right then and there.


----------



## Leif (Jun 10, 2009)

But, Rhun, don't think for one minute that Keira is NOT a servant of the Master just because she didn't instantly attack!  She may just be biding here time and waiting for a more golden opportunity to strike.  That Jemal is a sneaky devil!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 10, 2009)

Leif said:


> But, Rhun, don't think for one minute that Keira is NOT a servant of the Master just because she didn't instantly attack!  She may just be biding here time and waiting for a more golden opportunity to strike.  That Jemal is a sneaky devil!




Bevin and Fuller are the ones trying to make friends...they weren't so accepting the last time we met a female. The fact that you as a player knows that Jemal is playing the character shouldn't affect your IC reactions to a newcomer.


----------



## Leif (Jun 10, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Bevin and Fuller are the ones trying to make friends...they weren't so accepting the last time we met a female. The fact that you as a player knows that Jemal is playing the character shouldn't affect your IC reactions to a newcomer.



That's not a fair accusation at all, Rhun!  Bevin just likes her t**s!!!

(He wonders what it would be like to have those globes resting on either side of his head... )


----------



## renau1g (Jun 10, 2009)

& Father Fuller is a trusting sort. He hasn't had the dealings with the subtle servants of the Master as the others have. Also, he's a bit more naive having grown up in the sheltered monastery and so is a bit gullible. He's also never seem a female and is somewhat more trusting, after all, they're the fairer sex.

Edit: The last female was blocking FF's business of cleansing the temple area from the dark stain of the Bhuts, whereas this female seems to be more inline with the group's goals.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 10, 2009)

Ha ha ha. Good points all!


----------



## Jemal (Jun 11, 2009)

All will fall before the power of my ti... er, cuteness.

BTW, did googleads get invaded by france or something?  All the google ads I'm seeing on ENWorld today are french.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

I hadn't notice the ads. But now I'm going to pay attention to them.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Oh, and for Walking Dad: my original ploy in showing the dagger was the hopes that if Keira was a servant of the Master, she would attack or try to escape, and we could just deal with her right then and there.



No problem, just playing up Girgal's distrust to anyone he doesn't consider 'pack'. He still watches Fuller...


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Bevin still has stars in his eyes, dreaming of ..... things. *sigh!*


----------



## renau1g (Jun 11, 2009)

Jemal said:


> All will fall before the power of my ti... er, cuteness.
> 
> BTW, did googleads get invaded by france or something?  All the google ads I'm seeing on ENWorld today are french.




I thought maybe they got more advanced software and realize that we're from Canada, therefore assume we're fully bilingual, and tailored the ads...


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> No problem, just playing up Girgal's distrust to anyone he doesn't consider 'pack'. He still watches Fuller...




Yeah, I figured. Its all good. 



renau1g said:


> I thought maybe they got more advanced software and realize that we're from Canada, therefore assume we're fully bilingual, and tailored the ads...




Way back in the day I did a sales seminar in Quebec City...I had to have a translator, because nobody from there spoke English. Only French. I'm still not sure why they sent me to do it, since I don't speak any French.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 11, 2009)

I am not a fan of Quebec City, even if you do speak french, if you're not a francophone (full french) then they talk down to you.

Now Montreal... that's another story. Great place to visit in the summer.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Actually, I went to Montreal on that same tri. Montreal was a blast. I had a good time there.


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Actually, I went to Montreal on that same tri. Montreal was a blast. I had a good time there.





renau1g said:


> I am not a fan of Quebec City, even if you do speak french, if you're not a francophone (full french) then they talk down to you.
> Now Montreal... that's another story. Great place to visit in the summer.



Montreal, Quebec, they might be ok, but they're still TOO FAR NORTH!!  (Take off, eh?)

Je ne parle rien Francais.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> Montreal, Quebec, they might be ok, but they're still TOO FAR NORTH!!  (Take off, eh?)




Well, I was there during the winter. And it was COLD! Like way colder than it ever gets in Salt Lake, and it gets pretty cold here sometimes.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 11, 2009)

Yeah Montreal winters are killer.... they are probably why most Americans think of Canadian winters. Where I live we share a latitudal line with Northern California. We're actually furhter south than many places in the States.


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Yeah Montreal winters are killer.... they are probably why most Americans think of Canadian winters. Where I live we share a latitudal line with Northern California. We're actually furhter south than many places in the States.





Rhun said:


> Well, I was there during the winter. And it was COLD! Like way colder than it ever gets in Salt Lake, and it gets pretty cold here sometimes.



It gets pretty danged cold in Arkansas during January and February, too, but we don't get FEET of snow.  If we get more than 2 inches, lots of people take off from work and the schools close.  And I KNOW your latitude in Canada is furhter up than ours.   But I'm not sure I believe that about Canada being on the same latitude as California, because there are TWO entire states north of California, Oregon and Washington.  Surely you must be thinking of Washington state??


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

I shoveled at least four or five feet of snow at my house over the course of the winter...most of that in batches of 8-10" at a time. The trace stuff and little accumulations I just let melt on their own. So we definitely get snow...of course, as a skier, it would be hard for me to live somewhere that didn't get snow in the winter.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> It gets pretty danged cold in Arkansas suring January and Febriary, too, but we don't get FEET of snow.  If we get more than 2 inches, lots of people take off from work and the schools close.  And I KNOW your latitude in Canada is furhter up than ours.   But I'm not sure I believe that about Canada being on the same latitude as California, because there are TWO entire states north of California, Oregon and Washington.  Surely you must be thinking of Washington state??




Definitely not all of Canada, but I happen to live in the southern most part of the country.

Windsor AP             - Lat-    42° 16' N   Long-  82° 58' W
Crescent City AP  (CA - Lat   41° 46' N  long   124° 12' W

So yeah, there are two states more north than us... actually more if you include Minnesota, Alaska, the Dakotas, Montana, most of Idaho, plus a bunch of the small states on the northeast US.

If you look at a map of the states and look at Detroit, then trace a line over to the West coast, it's approx. the same as Northern California....


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Because of Earth's curvature, Renau1g is correct...it may seem hard to wrap your head around, but if you look at a map that actually shows the curve, you'll agree that where he lives in pretty much that same latitude as California's northern border. Cool stuff.


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Because of Earth's curvature, Renau1g is correct...it may seem hard to wrap your head around, but if you look at a map that actually shows the curve, you'll agree that where he lives in pretty much that same latitude as California's northern border. Cool stuff.



OK, I'll take your word for it for now.  But I'll be checking my globe this evening.  Where did you say you live, again, renau1g?  Toronto, was it?

And, Rhun, I know the earth is curved!  They even teach that in the public schools in Arkansas nowadays!


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> And, Rhun, I know the earth is curved!  They even teach that in the public schools in Arkansas nowadays!




When did they get schools in Arkansas?


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> When did they get schools in Arkansas?



A D*** sight before they had 'em in UTAH, I guarantee!  Shoot folk out there were still clubbing each other over the head with rocks and sticks, and fighting Wild Indians, when Arkansas was graduating doctors and lawyers.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 11, 2009)

I live in the Windsor. About 4 hours SW of Toronto.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> A D*** sight before they had 'em in UTAH, I guarantee!  Shoot folk out there were still clubbing each other over the head with rocks and sticks, and fighting Wild Indians, when Arkansas was graduating doctors and lawyers.




True enough...but what do you need school for when you've got 12 wives?


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> True enough...but what do you need school for when you've got 12 wives?



At that point, what you mainly need school for is to get those 57 little brats out of your hair for a few hours every day.


----------



## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Bevin says a tearful, heartfelt goodbye to Aram, Girgal, and Father Fuller, and rides off into the sunset.

So long guys!  See you in our other shared games.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 11, 2009)

Leif said:


> At that point, what you mainly need school for is to get those 57 little brats out of your hair for a few hours every day.




LOL. I know some people like that. LOL. One of my best friends actually had 14 (14!!) brothers and sisters. Of course, there is only a single wife there, but that is still a lot of kids. 



Leif said:


> Bevin says a tearful, heartfelt goodbye to Aram, Girgal, and Father Fuller, and rides off into the sunset.
> 
> So long guys!  See you in our other shared games.




Huh, what? I'm confused.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 11, 2009)

???


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## Leif (Jun 11, 2009)

Father Fuller and Aram looked somewhat wistfully after the departed Bevin.  The only response they received was the chirping of crickets.


----------



## Jemal (Jun 12, 2009)

You don't know winter until you've lived in saskatchewan and had to crawl out of your WINDOWs to shovel the 4 feet of snow out from in front of your door.

Also - WTF's up with Leif, are you quitting this game? did I miss something?   Did somebody piss you off?

Jemal is confused.  Please help a confused Canuck.


----------



## Leif (Jun 12, 2009)

I think it would be best if I quit this game, yes.  It's a bleed-over from my "Hall of the Rainbow Mage" game, which is also held in abeyance at the moment.  Long story that I'd just as soon not re-hash, if you don't mind. 

[sblock=Bevin]Truth be told, I've been pretty tired of this stubby little good for very little Dwarf for some time now.  Let's not dwell on it, please.[/sblock]


----------



## Rhun (Jun 12, 2009)

Jemal said:


> You don't know winter until you've lived in saskatchewan and had to crawl out of your WINDOWs to shovel the 4 feet of snow out from in front of your door.




I won't complain about the snow I get anymore.


----------



## kinem (Jun 12, 2009)

OK, Leif has decided to leave.  I don't agree that Bevin wasn't powerful enough, after he became a beguiler, but in retrospect there have been signs that Leif was no longer into him.

Assuming that you other players want to continue the game we will do so.  I'm looking forward to see how it goes.

I know how I will have Bevin leave the scene IC, and I will post the transition in the current IC thread.  I will then open a new IC thread for X5.

X5 is an interesting module, but know that there could be some tough fights, including the Master himself at the end.  At some point I may recruit an additional PC.


----------



## renau1g (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm still interested in moving on. I kind of get that Leif wasn't into Bevin, I know that Rajah had gotten to be more...troublesome... than I expected, especially in PbP (too micro-managing) 

I enjoy Father Fuller surprisingly much. I kind of think of him as the jolly ol Saint Nick... that is until you prove yourself an evil doer. Than he turns on you...


----------



## Rhun (Jun 12, 2009)

I'm still here and ready to continue.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 15, 2009)

I will miss Leif, but the adventure is great. Let's move on!


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Moving on. Now we just need to figure out how to get through the cliff.


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## Jemal (Jun 15, 2009)

has anybody tried open sesame?


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Jemal said:


> has anybody tried open sesame?





I was leaving that for you, my friend!


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## kinem (Jun 15, 2009)

Leif'll be missed, but who knows - I may recruit another PC at some point, and recycling players is an old school tradition.

In the meantime, who'll provide the comic relief?  Maybe all the PCs will have to pitch in ...

Aram: Thinks his scimitars are the answer for everything - including silverware.  Uses them like chopsticks.  "I've been doing it this way since I was a baby!"

Girgal: Uses wild shape to turn into a dog so he can eat all the food falling from Aram's table.  Ruff!

Father Fuller: The holy man can't keep his eyes off Keira's chest long enough to pray for spells.

Keira: Can't keep her eyes off her own chest.

Hmm ... maybe not


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## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Hee hee! Thanks for the laugh, Kinem. I needed that.


----------



## Jemal (Jun 15, 2009)

Hey, stop makin fun of hootie mcboob! 



> I was leaving that for you, my friend!



Many thanks.


----------



## Rhun (Jun 15, 2009)

Jemal said:


> Hey, stop makin fun of hootie mcboob!




I prefer Busty St. Claire or Chesty LaRue. They have more class to them.


----------



## kinem (Aug 4, 2009)

I think that EN World might be working well enough to try to get this show back on the road.

But, whenever I wanted to say so, it timed out , so maybe not   OOC seems worse than IC for some reason.

I guess we might be waiting for Jemal to try the wand ...

Don't forget to copy before posting, just in case!


----------



## Rhun (Aug 4, 2009)

It has its ups and downs. I'm still having a hard time posting.


----------



## kinem (Aug 17, 2009)

I'll take action for Keira tomorrow if Jemal hasn't returned yet.


----------



## Rhun (Aug 17, 2009)

kinem said:


> I'll take action for Keira tomorrow if Jemal hasn't returned yet.




Cool beans.


----------



## kinem (Aug 20, 2009)

In case anyone missed it:



Rhun said:


> *OOC: I so wanted to have Aram make a Mike Tyson comment to the troll, but I couldn't figure out how to work it into an IC post!*




Aram's scimitars form a *holy field* of flashing steel, but luck is not with him this time as he misses the troll that bit him.


----------



## Walking Dad (Aug 20, 2009)

missed it, but very cool. Protect your ears!


----------



## Rhun (Aug 20, 2009)

kinem said:


> Aram's scimitars form a *holy field* of flashing steel, but luck is not with him this time as he misses the troll that bit him.




It made me laugh when I saw it. Nice wordplay, kinem!


----------



## renau1g (Aug 20, 2009)

Well done sir. I read it and thought WTF? then looking back it works well.


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## Rhun (Aug 20, 2009)

If you don't remember the fight or have never paid attention to boxing, it would have been easy to miss.


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## kinem (Oct 1, 2009)

I'm having computer trouble at home.  I'll move the action along when I can but probably that won't be for a few days.


----------



## Rhun (Oct 1, 2009)

No worries Kinem! I know how it goes.


----------



## kinem (Oct 9, 2009)

Rhun said:


> *OOC: With Jemal gone, are we going to have to recruit a fourth again?*




Yes.  I asked Leif and he wasn't interested, so I'll recruit when the time comes.


----------



## Walking Dad (Oct 9, 2009)

kinem said:


> Yes.  I asked Leif and he wasn't interested, so I'll recruit when the time comes.



He has some time issues it seems. What do we need anyway? Or will we wait what characters are still there after the medusa cave?


----------



## Rhun (Oct 9, 2009)

Well, we could use a wizard, right? Sombody with a little arcane power?


----------



## renau1g (Oct 9, 2009)

Either a wizard or straight-up fighter. Aram is more mobile striker than a meat shield.


----------



## Rhun (Oct 9, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Either a wizard or straight-up fighter. Aram is more mobile striker than a meat shield.




He has performed well thus far; his high AC makes up somewhat for his lack of hit points, and his holy weapons allow him to inflict as much damage (at least to evil) as a barbarian with a greatsword. And with Girgal's ability to summon help, and Fuller's ability to function as a secondary fighter...it seems we have melee pretty well covered.

Although, if not a wizard...an archer or warlock would work. Kind of a blaster type?


----------



## renau1g (Oct 9, 2009)

Yeah a blaster would work best as FF & Girgal can cover off a lot of utility stuff


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## Walking Dad (Nov 3, 2009)

Stacking haste and snake swiftness:

Snake swiftness gives an immediate attack on Girgal's turn. It doesn't interact with standard or full actions. It works outside normal initiative. Why shouldn't it stack? Just curious, you are the DM. You rule


----------



## Rhun (Nov 3, 2009)

I'd also like to point out that we shouldn't skimp on using all of our resources in this battle...a cloud giant can literally kill any of us in a single round. And Aram will be lucky to survive even another hit from the thing.


----------



## kinem (Nov 3, 2009)

Snake's swiftness (spell compendium) explicitly states that if you have already used an extra attack from haste, you don't get to attack again.  It does not explicitly say the reverse: that if you have attacked via SS, you don't get the haste attack.  But for consistency (round structure is arbitrary), that's how I interpret it.

So in this case, Aram did get an extra attack when Girgal cast the spell, but then he didn't get the one from haste.  This would only have mattered if someone else acted in between Girgal and Aram, or if Aram did not use a full attack action.


----------



## kinem (Nov 5, 2009)

Keira will not remain in the game much past the current battle.

If Bevin had remained, I think this battle would be a lot easier, but I think you can handle it   Do you think I should recruit 2 more PCs?  The bad guys are what they are, they are mostly set in advance.  Or if you make it far enough with 4 PCs I might go the level-up route instead.

BTW, you guys bypassed the toughest encounters in the Pass, including a red dragon!  Though you would actually have had to go out of your way for that one.


----------



## Rhun (Nov 5, 2009)

kinem said:


> Keira will not remain in the game much past the current battle.




Please have her crushed by the giant, instead of killing Aram! LOL.



kinem said:


> If Bevin had remained, I think this battle would be a lot easier, but I think you can handle it   Do you think I should recruit 2 more PCs?  The bad guys are what they are, they are mostly set in advance.  Or if you make it far enough with 4 PCs I might go the level-up route instead.




I don't know if we need 2, but we certainly need an arcane caster. While our druid and cleric are certainly getting the job done, I feel that we really need a blaster-type in the group. Or perhaps a dedicated archer, if not a blaster-style wizard?



kinem said:


> BTW, you guys bypassed the toughest encounters in the Pass, including a red dragon!  Though you would actually have had to go out of your way for that one.




Good to know. Though I must say, I think Aram would have preferred to face a red dragon over a cloud giant! LOL.


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## renau1g (Nov 9, 2009)

kinem said:


> [sblock=ooc]I'm not sure Augment Healing should apply to _(lesser) vigor_, but I'll say that it applies for the first round only.  Even that is generous, since vigor grants fast healing, it does not heal like a normal cure spell.  It obviously does not apply every round.[/sblock]




Yeah I figured this was the case otherwise it becomes way too powerful, just wanted to confirm. Healing 45 hp with a level 1 spell is just silly... thanks for your help.


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## Rhun (Nov 9, 2009)

I like the ruling of applying it to the first round only. Gives you a little something something, without making it too powerful.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 11, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I like the ruling of applying it to the first round only. Gives you a little something something, without making it too powerful.




I could swear I saw this one as an official ruling somewhere.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 11, 2009)

Note: The fog/cloud will not do him any good. Girgal's Faery Fire spell cancels the concealment he would get.


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## Rhun (Nov 11, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Note: The fog/cloud will not do him any good. Girgal's Faery Fire spell cancels the concealment he would get.




That could be handy. Aram is not for letting any of the enemies get away...they serve the Master, and they must die. Hell, the way Aram is developing, maybe he should take a level or two of paladin?


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## renau1g (Nov 11, 2009)

Hmm... FF wouldn't want them getting away either, he's not quite as murderous as Aram though, not yet.


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## kinem (Nov 11, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> Note: The fog/cloud will not do him any good. Girgal's Faery Fire spell cancels the concealment he would get.




Not trying to be the bad guy here, but actually it doesn't.  As the SRD says:

"Outlined creatures do not benefit from the concealment normally provided by darkness (though a 2nd-level or higher magical darkness effect functions normally), blur, displacement, invisibility, or similar effects."

Nothing about fog, which is not at all similar to darkness, because it's obvious how the spell works: It makes things glow.  Just as the light from Aram's everburning torch is visible when he is invisible or in the dark, so is the light from faerie fire.  Fog blocks that light just like any other light, so faerie fire has no effect on the concealment due to fog.

It's a moot point anyway, since you heard the giant move off to the left (west); even without the fog, none of you would have line of sight to him.


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## Rhun (Nov 11, 2009)

We'll track him down, as soon as we can figure out how to get rid of the fog.


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## kinem (Nov 11, 2009)

Blindsense/blindsight works fine in fog, so I guess I'd better have Keira go next.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 12, 2009)

Always thought that fog does count as a 'similar effect'. Your game, but putting the lights on the car helps to see each other in fog. No biggie but I may change my spell selection based on this call.

Could a small air elemental help to disperse the fog?


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## kinem (Nov 12, 2009)

Faerie fire is a dim light, not a bright one, so I don't think the carlight analogy applies.  Remember, there is sunlight that is being filtered by the fog as well, so it's not necessarily dark; it's a whiteout.  Magic fog is also a lot thicker than normal fog, since the range of visibility is only 5'.

I would say that a small elemental could disperse squares at the edges of the fog.  If it ends its turn in an edge square or takes a move action to disperse it, that edge square is dispersed.

Scent would work normally in fog, I think.


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## kinem (Nov 13, 2009)

Time to start recruiting.

I am looking for 1 more player.

It is not necessarily first come first served.  The player should be willing and able to post daily, and be committed to playing until the end of module X5.  You missed the first part of the module but this is PBP so that doesn't mean it will be over soon.

See the first post in this thread for basic background information.

There are basically two choices for PC backgrounds:

[sblock]1) You are a surviving member of the original expedition which was sent by the Republic of Darokin to obtain the Master's war plans, and if possible to find the Crystal Dagger of Cymorakk and use it to assassinate the otherwise immortal Master. That party was discovered and defeated by the Master's agents. As far as you know IC, all the other members were presumably killed.  You were captured, and brought through the Pass to be taken before the Master, but escaped and managed to snag your gear.

or

2) You are a native of the Sind Desert, and your tribe joined the forces of the Master. You became one of the Master's elite agents, but they never really trusted you much, and for good reason as you grew disgusted with the Master and his massacres. Now an enemy of the Master, you snuck away and decided to head for the Great Pass, planning to make your way back to your desert home.[/sblock]

Submit a short personality profile, class build (such as "Fighter 8", not a statted sheet), and short background. 

It will be 9th level, 36,000 gp, 32 point buy.

3.5, obviously.  That goes without saying in my book.  It it were Pathfinder, or an older edition, I'd say so


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## kinem (Nov 19, 2009)

bump


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## Rhun (Nov 19, 2009)

I didn't see that Kinem had mentioned it...but what the group could really use is a wizard or sorcerer of some sort, or some sort of ranged blaster.


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## Rhun (Nov 19, 2009)

On an unrelated note...did we ever get any of the "commander's" gear identified or anything? I was just thinking that if his gauntlets were gauntlets of ogre power, they'd help Aram inflict a bit more damage.


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## Dragonwriter (Nov 19, 2009)

Seeing the add for recruiting, I'm interested. And I'm able to commit to the posting rate.

I see in the first post that any 3.5 material is open (and post 6 has the list of materials you owned at the time), but it would probably be quicker if I worked with a class (and feats, spells, etc.) that you already have access to. (Personally, I'd love to play a Shadowcaster, from Tome of Magic, if that's open, but I'd rather work with what you already have/have access to, kinem.)

By ranged blaster, Rhun, would an archer fit? Or perhaps Warlock? I could run a Wizard/Sorcerer, if that would fit better, but I'm not terribly fond of them.


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## Rhun (Nov 19, 2009)

Dragonwriter said:


> By ranged blaster, Rhun, would an archer fit? Or perhaps Warlock? I could run a Wizard/Sorcerer, if that would fit better, but I'm not terribly fond of them.




I think an archer or warlock would fill that role well. A wizard or sorcerer is nice because they have some utility spells, but we've made it pretty far without one.


----------



## kinem (Nov 19, 2009)

Hello, Dragonwriter.

A shadowcaster or warlock would be fine.

As long as healing is covered, which it is, I don't require a balanced party (except at low levels when it matters more).


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## Dragonwriter (Nov 19, 2009)

Shadowcaster is okay? Awesome. I've been wanting to try one out for a long while...

I'm think along the lines of this:
Human Shadowcaster 6/Master of Shadow 3
He'd mainly focus on control/messing with opponents, and sometimes letting loose with a Reach Umbral Touch as a little ranged attack, that also happens to slow the opponent. And his big Shadow Elemental buddy could do hit-and-run stuff.

(I realize he's not so much a ranged blaster, but his Umbral Touch can be quite nasty and his area control mysteries can immobilize, weaken and otherwise hamper groups.)

[sblock=Personality]
Easy-going and chatty, though generally he tries to draw attention away from himself. Somebody who likes to experiment, but also can have a mean streak and toy with enemies, if he thinks they're weak and simple. He would see treasure as a means to an end, not caring too much about it. Very dedicated and loyal, seeing it as his duty to fulfill his mission, or die trying.
[/sblock]

Background would be more in line with the first option. He would have been selected for his stealth and subtle magics.

I have a couple more questions concerning this, though... 

1. Given the mystery advancement of Master of Shadow, would you be willing to say his Apprentice mysteries are now spell-like, or would that be considered a class feature of Shadowcaster? 

2. Would the Favored Mystery feat grant an extra use of the mystery per day, as it does advance the way it is cast (and according to the text, that grants extra uses)?

(And would you be willing to take a look at some proposed patches by the class designer? They're here on EnWorld, right here. If you say no, I don't mind.)

And if these questions are a bit too much, I can change my character around. Nothing's really set-in-stone as of this point.


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## Rhun (Nov 19, 2009)

I've never seen a shadowcaster in play, so I'm excited to see how it plays!


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## kinem (Nov 20, 2009)

Dragonwriter said:


> Shadowcaster is okay? Awesome. I've been wanting to try one out for a long while...




Cool.  Character concept looks good.



> 1. Given the mystery advancement of Master of Shadow, would you be willing to say his Apprentice mysteries are now spell-like, or would that be considered a class feature of Shadowcaster?
> 
> 2. Would the Favored Mystery feat grant an extra use of the mystery per day, as it does advance the way it is cast (and according to the text, that grants extra uses)?
> 
> 3. (And would you be willing to take a look at some proposed patches by the class designer?)




1.  It's a class feature, I'd say.

2.  Not sure what you're asking but the feat would do what it says it does: bump a mystery from spell to SLA, SLA to Su, or if already Su increase the uses/day by 1.

3.  I'd rather stick to the RAW as much as possible for this game, except for anything that is obviously broken and needs nerfing.  (I'm not very familiar with shadow magic so I reserve the right to veto something that looks off.  The only thing that stands out right now is that flesh fails and greater flesh fails need Fort saves.)


----------



## Dragonwriter (Nov 20, 2009)

kinem said:


> 2.  Not sure what you're asking but the feat would do what it says it does: bump a mystery from spell to SLA, SLA to Su, or if already Su increase the uses/day by 1.




The reason I asked is that when a mystery gets upped to SLA or Su, it gets more uses per day. There's been lots of debate (without official clarification, as far as I know) as to whether the feat increases the number of castings in addition to the way it is cast (as normal for the class feature/casting).



> 3.  I'd rather stick to the RAW as much as possible for this game, except for anything that is obviously broken and needs nerfing.  (I'm not very familiar with shadow magic so I reserve the right to veto something that looks off.  The only thing that stands out right now is that flesh fails and greater flesh fails need Fort saves.)




That's fine. The patches were originally done due to the Shadowcaster being largely regarded as weak. I'm fine running one without them anyway. And I'm okay with Flesh Fails having a Fort save (not planning on using that too much anyway). Would it be for half or negates?

And I'll just work around not having as many uses per day of my mysteries. I think I'll have enough to fall back on, even without my extra SLA level mysteries.


----------



## Walking Dad (Nov 20, 2009)

Rhun said:


> I've never seen a shadowcaster in play, so I'm excited to see how it plays!




Seconded!

And welcome!


----------



## kinem (Nov 20, 2009)

Well, I think we've found our 4th player!  Welcome aboard, Dragonwriter.  You can begin making the PC.

It's hard to judge off hand how strong the SC is, but I'll tell you what: I'll allow Apprentice mysteries becoming spell-like to count as regular caster progression.  I guess we all want to see some SLAs as that is a main class feature.

Flesh Fails will be Fort negates; DW, not that this applies to your planned build, but in general ability damage can get out of hand.  Another potential fix would be making it a non-stacking penalty rather than damage, but I'll just go with the save.

Favored Mystery does not increase uses/day (except when it affects what is already a Su ability).  I think it's clear on that.  Also, it would be too strong to let it bump up high-level mysteries to many uses/day.  In combination with the original un-nerfed Greater Flesh Fails, and maybe things like Quicken Mystery - well, would it be fair to put a party up against an NPC SC like that?  I think not.


----------



## Rhun (Nov 20, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> And welcome!




Oh yeah...I forgot to say "Welcome, Dragonwriter!" Look forward to having you in the game.


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## renau1g (Nov 20, 2009)

Welcome Dragonwriter, I worry about poor Keira.... well not really


----------



## Dragonwriter (Nov 20, 2009)

kinem said:


> Well, I think we've found our 4th player!  Welcome aboard, Dragonwriter.  You can begin making the PC.
> 
> It's hard to judge off hand how strong the SC is, but I'll tell you what: I'll allow Apprentice mysteries becoming spell-like to count as regular caster progression.  I guess we all want to see some SLAs as that is a main class feature.
> 
> ...




Thanks very much on the SLA-level mysteries. More castings is always appreciated. 
The Flesh Fails nerf kinda does affect my build, as it is part of the path for Umbral Touch, but I'm not really concerned about it. I just wanted to know how the save would affect it. And I'm fine with the Favored Mystery ruling. I just wanted to get the ruling, in case it would boost my Umbral Touch a little bit.

EDIT: Perhaps I'm blind, or just not paying enough attention, but how are you handling HPs? Nevermind, found it on page 2.



Walking Dad said:


> Seconded!
> 
> And welcome!






Rhun said:


> Oh yeah...I forgot to say "Welcome, Dragonwriter!" Look forward to having you in the game.






renau1g said:


> Welcome Dragonwriter, I worry about poor Keira.... well not really




Thanks guys. I'm going to take a closer look through the IC and start building my Shadowcaster today.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Nov 20, 2009)

Okay, I think I've got everything done. Here's my Shadowcaster.

[sblock=Jex Riggen]
Name: Jex Riggen
Player: Dragonwriter

Race: Human
Class: Shadowcaster 6/Master of Shadow 3
XPs: 36,000 current/1000 next level

Alignment: Lawful Neutral
=================================== 
Str: 8 (0 points)
Dex: 16 (6 points +2 item)
Con: 14 (4 points +2 item)
Int: 14 (6 points)
Wis: 8 (0 points)
Cha: 22 (16 points +2 levels +2 item)
=================================== 
HP: 59 [6+20(4*5)+ 15 (5*3)+18]
AC: 18 (+3 Dex, +0 Size, +5 Armor, +0 Shield)
Init: +3
Speed: 30 feet
BAB: +4
Mel: +3
Rng: +7
Fort: +8 (4 SC, 3 MoS, 1 Con)
Refl: +5 (1 SC, 1 Mos, 3 Dex)
Will: +6 (4 SC, 3 MoS, -1 Wis)
=================================== 
Special Abilities 
Race: Bonus Feat, Bonus skills points

Class: Fundamentals of shadow, apprentice mysteries (spell-like), bonus feat, umbral sight (darkvision 30 ft.), Sustaining Shadow (eat 1 meal/week), initiate mysteries
Shadow servant, master’s bidding (standard action), resistance to cold 5

=================================== 
Feats: Extend Mystery (1st), Reach Mystery (Human), Shadow Familiar (3rd), Path Focus: Touch of Twilight (6th), Reach Mystery (9th) 

=================================== 
Languages: Common, Orcish, Goblin

=================================== 
Skills (60 skill points total)
Trained or Untrained: +X (=Rank + Stat Mod + Other)
Concentration +13 (=12+1+0) (9 from SC, 3 from MoS)
Hide +11 (=9+2+0) (8 from SC, 2 cc from MoS)
Move Silently +11 (=9+2+0) (8 from SC, 2 cc from MoS)
Spot +11 (=12-1+0) (7 from SC, 5 from MoS)

Trained Only: +X (=Rank + Stat Mod + Other)
Knowledge (arcana) +10 (=8+2+0) (5 from SC, 3 from MoS)
Knowledge (the planes) +10 (=8+2+0) (8 from SC)
=================================== 
Magic Items (location, weight): +1 Mithral Shirt of Twilight (5,100 GP, chest/armor, 12.5 lbs), Lesser Metashadow Rod of Extend Mystery (3,000 GP, haversack or left hand, 0 lbs.), Ring of Feather Falling ( 2,200 GP, left hand index finger, .0 lbs.), Cloak of Charisma +2 (4,000 GP, shoulders, 2 lbs.), Handy Haversack (2,000 GP, back, 5 lbs.), Amulet of Health +2 (4,000 GP, neck, 0 lbs.), Gloves of Dexterity (4,000 GP, hands, 0 lbs.), Ring of Sustenance (2,500 GP, right hand index finger, 0 lbs.), Bag of Tricks (rust, 6,300 GP, belt, 0 lbs.), Wand of Dusk and Dawn (25 charges, CL 1, 375 GP, haversack, 0 lbs), 2 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds (CL 3, 300 GP, haversack), potion of lesser restoration (CL 3, 300 GP ea, haversack), potion of Cure Serious Wounds (CL 5, 750 GP, haversack), 3 potions of Cure Light Wounds (CL 1, 50 GP ea, haversack),  Arrow of Dusk (50 charges, CL 1, 375 GP, haversack)

=================================== 
Other Equipment:
Weapons: Masterwork Dagger +4 melee (1d4-1, 19-20/x2, piercing or slashing, 10 ft. range, 302 GP, 1 lb.)

Armor, Clothes: +1 Mithral Shirt of Twilight (+4 AC, +6 Max Dex, 0% ASF, 0 ACP, 12.5 lbs), traveler’s outfit.

----------------------------------- 
Container: Handy Haversack (Main)

Contents: Lesser Metashadow Rod of Extend Mystery, Wand of Dusk and Dawn (25 charges, CL 1), Arrow of Dusk (50 charges, CL 1), bedroll, flint and steel, hempen rope (50 ft),


Container: Handy Haversack (pocket)

Contents: coinage


Container: Handy Haversack (right pocket)

Contents: 2 potions of Cure Moderate Wounds (CL 3), potion of lesser restoration, potion of Cure Serious Wounds (CL 5), 3 potions of Cure Light Wounds (CL 1)

----------------------------------- 
Money 
PP: 0
GP: 45
SP: 9
CP: 0
Gems/Other: 0
----------------------------------- 
Load 
Light: 0-26 lbs.
Medium: 27-53 lbs.
Heavy: 54-80 lbs.
Current: 20.5 lbs.
===================================
Familiar/Animal Companion(s): 
Eissun	the Large Shadow Elemental (Incorporeal)
HD 10d8+30	Hp 75	Init +6	Spd Fly 40 ft (perfect) AC 12
Atk (10 ft. reach) 2 Incorporeal Touches +8 melee (1d8 plus 1d8 cold damage)
SA: Shadow Mastery (+1 on attacks and damage in shadowy or darker areas), Dusk and Dawn 3/day
SQ: Blindsight 60 ft., elemental traits, incorporeal traits
AL: N
Saves:  F: 6/ R: 7/ W: 3
Str -	Dex 14	Con 16	Int 6	Wis 11	Cha 11
Skills & Feats: Listen +8, Spot +9 (2 skill points due to advanced HD), Alertness, Combat Reflexes, Improved Initiative, Flyby Attack (new feat due to HD advancement)

===================================
Mysteries
Caster Level: 8 (DC 15 + mystery level)
Fundamentals (usable 3 each): Caul of Shadow, Black Candle, Arrow of Dusk (x2)
Lvl 1 Apprentice Mysteries (2 per day each): Life Fades, Carpet of Shadow
Lvl 2 Apprentice Mysteries (2 per day each): Flesh Fails, Black Fire
Lvl 3 Apprentice Mysteries (2 per day each: Umbral Touch, Clinging Darkness
Lvl 4 Initiate Mysteries (1 per day each): Shadow Evocation, Warp Spell
=================================== 
Description (include Age, gender, height, weight, physical description): 
Jex is an unusual young man of about 22, though at first glance his features would merely bespeak “pretty boy.” He isn’t particularly tall or strong-looking (he stands around 5’7” or 5’8” and is of light build, weighing about 120 lbs.), but his presence makes him seem larger. He carries himself with a calm, cool air, which can be slightly unnerving as he always seems to maintain it, no matter the circumstances. 

He keeps his long hair in ponytail that reaches almost to the middle of his back, and it never seems out of place or disturbed, even when he pulls loose the string that keeps it restrained. His face appears soft and pale, as though he hasn’t had to travel much in the sun, or worked very hard at all. His hands follow suit, smooth and clean, more the hands of a noble’s son or scholar than an adventurer. While these aren’t especially unusual qualities, the way he speaks with a cool and smooth voice in addition to his posture and bearing make him someone to which others listen.

All of these things wouldn’t be particularly unusual, even taken together. No, what makes Jex unusual is his mastery over pure darkness and shadow, so strong that he is able to manifest and summon a creature of that pure darkness, a giant shadow companion that he has taken to calling Eissun. This creature seems to listen to him, but his own personal shadow sometimes seems to move of its’ own accord, out of sync with his body. When this is noticed, it is an altogether disturbing event.

===================================
Background:
A Darokin native, Jex was born to an immigrant family from the Soderford Jarldoms, his parents seeking to escape the harsh climate and common bickering and fighting. He was raised to learn the merchant ways, but he quickly drifted away from that, showing signs of magical talent. He was soon instructed in the way of the wizards, but it never caught on with him. His own power seemed more natural than wizardry. Yet, he also never showed the same signs as a sorcerer… His own supernatural talents seemed to occur most often when the world was dark. Over time, as he researched and focused, he learned of shadow magic. He made contact with an actual shadowcaster and convinced the older mage to take him as an apprentice, much to his parents concern. Jex learned the ways of shadow, night and darkness, and how to manipulate these forces himself. After he had learned all he could, he left, never looking back.

He took to life on the road with some difficulty, not used to going hungry sometimes. Nevertheless, he worked through it, taking work as a sneak, or sometimes a mercenary mage. Over time, his powers grew until he developed the strength necessary to summon a creature of pure shadow, which has been his one constant companion since then.

Recently, he was hired by the Darokin government to try to track down the elusive Master, learn or steal his battle plans, and possibly assassinate him with the Crystal Dagger. Jex failed, was captured, held and interrogated until his shadow companion recovered, slipped in, enveloped the guards in its icy embrace and cloaked the halls in shadow, allowing Jex to escape. The young man snatched his belongings and the two fled, using his shadow powers to cover their retreat. Since then, the two have been trying to disrupt the Master’s forces with small ambushes, while simultaneously trying to find Darokin forces to rejoin and report.
[/sblock]


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## kinem (Nov 21, 2009)

Looks good DW.  The DC is 16+mystery level with Cha 22.  You can post it to the RG.

A few notes on background:

[sblock=DW]Jex was part of a group of adventurers sent by Darokin.  These included Bishop Guilliame, Keira (a silver-dragon-blooded sorceress), and others (left unspecified in case I need more replacement PCs!)  In an ancient tomb in the desert the group obtained the hilt of the crystal dagger of Cymorrak; the dagger was thought to be a way to kill the Master.  However, the Master's agents somehow found out about the party, and in a surprise attack, killed or captured the lot of you, as far as you know.

Jex was kept alive because his magic was seen as something unusual, which the Master's wizards were hoping to learn from.  He was beaten to keep him from trying to use his magic to escape (having only a few hp left, such an attempt would be suicidal).  He was taken from the desert to the mountains and through the Great Pass, into the Master's land of Hule, where he was supposed to be studied.  The Master's wizards had more urgent business so he was held in a small keep near the mountains for several days.  With the help of his shadow companion and a neglectful guard, he escaped and began to harass the Master's forces when he can.

He has learned that the Master resides in a place called Greatrealm.  Also, Hule is run by "holy men" and clergy.  "Diviners" seem to be similar to religious police, and wear uniforms that consist of a red robe, a black leather mask, a mace, and an amulet of crystal.[/sblock]


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## Dragonwriter (Nov 21, 2009)

kinem said:


> Looks good DW.  The DC is 16+mystery level with Cha 22.  You can post it to the RG.




Ah, right. I forgot to change that when I was purchasing gear. 

And the background edit is fine with me.

[sblock=Kinem]
Will I be starting at reduced HP, or will I have rested up enough?

And was the hilt of the Crystal Dagger lost when my first group was captured?
[/sblock]


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## kinem (Nov 22, 2009)

[sblock=DW]You'll start at 41 hp, and be lying in wait along the trail away from the Great Pass.

Bishop Guilliame had the crystal hilt on him when your party was ambushed.  You went down before he did, so you don't know for sure what happened, but your captors told you that the rest of the party other than you has been killed.[/sblock]


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## Dragonwriter (Nov 22, 2009)

kinem said:


> [sblock=DW]You'll start at 41 hp, and be lying in wait along the trail away from the Great Pass.
> 
> Bishop Guilliame had the crystal hilt on him when your party was ambushed.  You went down before he did, so you don't know for sure what happened, but your captors told you that the rest of the party other than you has been killed.[/sblock]




[sblock=Kinem]
Okay.

By lying in wait, are you suggesting some kind of ambush from me? 

What do the other characters look like currently? Like part of the Master's forces, or warriors for Darokin?
[/sblock]


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## kinem (Nov 22, 2009)

[sblock=DW]This is getting ahead a little bit but you will see:

- a man in armor in the style of Hule, the nation ruled by the Master

- a warrior from the desert peoples (desert nomads are mostly the Master's allies)

- a halfling riding some kind of lizard-monster - could mean anything

- and Keira, the sorceress from your party!  She's alive after all!  Great news!  Yet it may seem a little suspicious - why is she alive and keeping such strange company?  After all, somehow the enemy forces knew about your party and where to ambush you ...[/sblock]


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## kinem (Dec 1, 2009)

WD (not to be confused with DW!), I hope you feel better.

I guess we are waiting for Girgal to weigh in on the fate of the unconscious man.


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## Rhun (Dec 1, 2009)

Yeah, I suppose. My posting has been a little slow the last few days too, so bear with me!


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## renau1g (Dec 1, 2009)

Damn turkey-day. So hard to post with all that food in you...


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## Rhun (Dec 1, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Damn turkey-day. So hard to post with all that food in you...




It is catching up from the time away from the office too. I don't know why, but some of my customers actually work on holidays and weekends.


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## renau1g (Dec 1, 2009)

Maybe they're Canadians?


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## Rhun (Dec 1, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Maybe they're Canadians?




With their foul mouths and flapping heads?  (sorry, couldn't resist the line from the Southpark movie!)

Actually, we do have a lot of big customers that have offices in Canada and in other countries around the world, so that is certainly part of it.


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## renau1g (Dec 1, 2009)

We are so full of lies... it's easy, Blame Canada!

I love that movie.


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## kinem (Dec 8, 2009)

DW, you're up.


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## Rhun (Dec 8, 2009)

kinem said:


> DW, you're up.




A DW and a WD? I'm going to get confused!


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## renau1g (Dec 14, 2009)

Hey all I've been thinking things over and I'd like to gracefully withdraw from this game. Nothing to do with any issues per se, just not digging 3.xe, I guess I'm more firmly entrenched in 4e and really prefer that system. I'll stick around until you can write me out kinem. Although I do enjoy this group of players, it's just less fun than it was before for me. Sorry.


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## kinem (Dec 14, 2009)

Oy vey.

ren, it's been good playing with you. Sorry to see you go. Thanks for doing it legit instead of dishonorably vanishing.

Father Fuller needs to introduce himself to the newcomer, so you can do that.  I'll write out FF and Keira soon.

Personally I can't stand 4e. You just gave me one more reason to hate it.

X5 has some interesting things in it, coming up.  Though, I know we've been playing the X4-5 series for a long time now, and maybe you just wanted to move on.

What do you other PCs - Rhun, Walking Dad, and now Dragonwriter - want to do?  I mean, if you want to go on to the end of the module, I'll recruit another player.


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## Dragonwriter (Dec 14, 2009)

Though we haven't gamed much together, I'm sorry to see you go, renau1g.

I know I just joined up, but I'd like to continue the module, if at all possible.


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## Rhun (Dec 14, 2009)

I absolutely want to continue. I've been here since the beginning, and I plan on being here at the end. Unless my PC dies first, of course! But we are definitely going to need a healer. No doubt about that. Aram's healing belt has come in handy, but it is no substitute for the real thing.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm for doing it to the end! And, Girgal is still a full divine caster and has some potions, two wands, and a healing belt. So at last the out of combat heling should be fine. But if we recruit I would favor a more specialized healer (cleric, favored soul with the right spells, ...)


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## kinem (Dec 16, 2009)

Great!

Now, for recruiting, I'd prefer it if someone wants to take over the character of Father Fuller.

Any interest out there?  He's an 8th level LG cleric and has a ring of telekinesis.


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## Rhun (Dec 16, 2009)

I'm sure there has to be a taker out there somewhere!


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## s@squ@tch (Dec 16, 2009)

I'd be interested in _tinkering_ with Father Fuller:

What I'd like to do:
1) Have him be lvl 9 like the rest of the party
2) Change him to Cloistered Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 3

I can understand if you wouldn't want these changes to be made, so these are basically my $0.02.  Let me know. 

Just looked more closely through RG and noticed that there isn't a meatshield in the group, so I am assuming that Father Fuller was the meatshield (although his RG entry is empty of equipment)

The above tinkering would probably ruin the group, so carry on, nothing to see here.


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## kinem (Dec 17, 2009)

I wouldn't say Father Fuller is a meatshield - I think that between Aram, Girgal and his summoned allies, and Jex's shadow elemental, it's not a problem - but it has been pretty well established IC what he is and is not capable of, and I want to keep continuity.  Of course, minor tinkering like feats and skills is no problem.

To review what is known about Father Fuller:

stats:
8th level LG or NG cleric of Amaunator. Domains: Time and Sun.  We've seen him cast _haste_ and perform a greater turning.

current equipment:
+2 full plate armor (from an enemy commander; effectively +2 half plate due to poor fit, which might be adjusted if you can find an armorer; say 3k gp equiv)
+1 large steel shield (total AC is 22), 1k
ring of telekinesis (command word: "Kine!"), 75k
holy symbol, spell component pouch
heavy mace (I think)
+2 inherent bonus to wisdom (55k value, in theory)

Compare that to the standard 36k a new 9th level character would get.  I know, it's mostly the ring, but it's a cool ring 

background:
Father Fuller was the Abbot of an isolated abbey in the mountains, where monks engaged in quiet study.  The abbey was overrun by monsters called bhuts, which appear human during the day and grow fangs and claws at night, in the service of the Master.  The bhuts killed and ate the other monks but kept Fuller prisoner, near naked and half starved, chained to a wall for months, in order to get information to help them pose as monks when travellers came.

The PC party came and fell for the ruse, but some were suspicious enough to purify their food; two of the party were slain but the others slew the bhuts and freed Fuller, who joined the group.  Fuller soon proved his worth in combat, turning a vampire spawn to dust and helping clear the monastary.  The wizardly dwarf Bevin vanished through a magic portal, but luckily the sorceress Keira showed up and together the party made their way through the enemy-filled Great Pass to the other side of the mountains, on their mission to slay the evil Master in his own land.  Just now, the group ran into an associate of Keira's, Jex, and his shadowy companion.

First name:
Unknown. It's never come up!


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## renau1g (Dec 17, 2009)

FF wasn't a meatshield, but he had some decent armour (thanks kinem) and a cool ring that he just started using.


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## Evilhalfling (Dec 17, 2009)

I would be willing to take over Father Fuller, I have always had a fondness for Mystra, so the father is from the boarder of Darokin and the waste? any RP quirks I should preserve?

 daily posting should'nt be a problem, at least till the holiday.


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## kinem (Dec 17, 2009)

I understand that many players are reluctant to take on a pre-made character.  Character creation is a fun part of the game (though it's also a lot of work!)

It's not for everyone, but I've found that pre-made characters can be surprisingly fun sometimes.  The character might not be what you would have come up with, but it's a roleplaying challenge, and you can put your own stamp on it without having to rewrite the whole personality.

I'm hoping that'll be the case here.  Much of FF's background is unexplored, for instance - perhaps he was not always a monastic cleric.  Could his passion for good be the zeal of a convert, trying to ease his guilt?

If there are no takers in a few days, I'll write him out.


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## kinem (Dec 17, 2009)

ooc: Ninja'd by the evil little guy!  Be glad to have you, EH.

RP quirks? Let me think about it.

Renau1g, your 2 coppers might be good to know 

EH, look over FF in the RG and decide on any tweaks you want.  In any case you should make your own post so that you can edit it as needed.


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## Rhun (Dec 17, 2009)

I was going to say that while Aram isn't a "meatshield" per se (because of his fairly low hit points), his ability to crank his AC up to 30+ and avoid being hit at all has allowed him to serve that role pretty well.


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## Evilhalfling (Dec 17, 2009)

hehe.

I had forgotten I submitted a character orginally for this game.
im as happy playing a cleric as I would have been the battle archerer. 
I reposted the good father to RG. 

can someone link me to the IC thread?


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## renau1g (Dec 17, 2009)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/257518-x5-temple-death-ic-16.html


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## Rhun (Dec 17, 2009)

renau1g said:


> http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/257518-x5-temple-death-ic-16.html




You're such a nice lad, Ryan.


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## kinem (Dec 18, 2009)

In case you want to read all of the IC ever since the PCs found Father Fuller, it starts at

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/244317-x4-5-across-mountains-ic-11.html#post4645042


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## Evilhalfling (Dec 18, 2009)

So whats up next? it looks like Ryan handled the new character introduction.


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## Rhun (Dec 18, 2009)

Evilhalfling said:


> So whats up next? it looks like Ryan handled the new character introduction.




Post up! And welcome. I don't think I've played in a game with you for a couple of years, evilhalfling!


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## kinem (Dec 18, 2009)

EH: Welcome, make yourself @ home, and fix your AC (10 + 9 + 3 = 22)!

Also, think about your take on FF's background and such, and make a name for yourself (literally - or at least, a 1st name for FF).


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## Rhun (Dec 18, 2009)

kinem said:


> Also, think about your take on FF's background and such, and make a name for yourself (literally - or at least, a 1st name for FF).




And give the poor bastard a first name!


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## Evilhalfling (Dec 18, 2009)

Rhun said:


> Post up! And welcome. I don't think I've played in a game with you for a couple of years, evilhalfling!




I remember playing something with you Rhun, But I can't figure out what it was.   My participation in PbP varies depending what Im playing in RL. 
Running a online game takes so much work, that if I am trying to run a RL game at the same time, the one here tends to fall apart.  Playing is a lot less work, so I should be good.

My group played its last game on Dec 14th and it will be Feburary before I can get a new one togeather.  I really should resist the temptation to run a online game during the break.


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## Rhun (Dec 19, 2009)

I took over somebody's Fighter in a game that your were running...Maure's Castle in Undermountain or something like that? It was at least two or three years ago, if not longer.


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## Dragonwriter (Dec 19, 2009)

Kinem, I know we determined that Jex had been harassing the Master's forces since his escape, but does he have any precise information (or just information) on the forces in the area? I'd think Jex would be rather opportunistic about hit-and-runs against the Master's goons, but he'd also know to avoid and just watch the larger groups going by...

So, any info to pass along would be great, even if it's very little/none at all.

And welcome, Evilhalfling!


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## Walking Dad (Dec 19, 2009)

@evilhalfling: Yes, big welcome!

@dragonwriter: Sorry for harassing your character. Will be the begin of a great friendship


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## kinem (Dec 19, 2009)

DW: Jex knows that this road leads to the Great Pass through the mountains, so he'd expect the Master's forces to use it - this was the route which the Master's original army took to go into the desert - though he hasn't seen much activity on it since his escape, until the PCs came.

Down the road is the town of Magden, which could be a good place to get more information on the land and where the Master might be. The party could reach it by evening.  The road begins to cross other roads in that direction, of course, and most of the traffic there would be civillians.


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## Rhun (Dec 20, 2009)

So here is where we stand with magic items:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
ring of regeneration - GIRGAL
cloak of resistance +3 - FULLER
+1 mithral half plate armor - Unused, in Aram's Haversack
+2 longsword - Unused, in Aram's Haversack
ring of protection +1  - FULLER
cloak of resistance +2 - ARAM
gauntlets of ogre power - ARAM
amulet of health +4 - ARAM
+2 bastard sword - unused, in Jex's Haversack
potion of cure serious wounds (blue, 3d8+5) - ARAM
potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3)
the wands - KIERA
+1 dagger - FULLER
cloak of resistance +1 - Unused, in Aram's Haversack
minor ring of spell storing (up to 3 spell levels; currently contains dispel magic, CL 6)
potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+5)
amulet of finding
potion of reduce person - FULLER
---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

EvilHalfling, are you sure Girgal wants the cloak of resistance *+2* instead of the cloak of resistance *+3*? Aram would also gladly upgrade his cloak of resistance *+1* to one of the better ones, assuming Fuller or Girgal doesn't want it. If nobody else wants the potion of cure serious wounds, Aram will snag that as well...just in case he gets in trouble in combat and Fuller can't get to him.

It is a shame that we don't have somebody that can't advantage of the armor, it would be pretty sweet. And were getting pretty loaded up on magical weapons of types that none of us use.


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## Evilhalfling (Dec 22, 2009)

First a vacation warning, I will be out of town starting tomorrow and running through the 2nd of January.  I will have internet some of that time, but I don't know how regular I will be. 

Final Division:  
okay the plate, +2 Long sword, and +1 cloak into Aram's bag. The +1 cloak and +2 bastard sword to Jex's, 

I say we bury the amulet of finding. 
ill update my RG with the new equipment.


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## renau1g (Dec 22, 2009)

You could always get Girgal to charm an animal, then put it on the creature, and let him go.... that'd be fun.

p.s. FF worshipped Amanautor...


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## Walking Dad (Dec 22, 2009)

My Advanced-Absence-Warning:

I will have no online access between Christmas and 6th January.

---

Why charm? Wild empathy for the win 

And Girgal has no interest in the cloaks because he already has a vest of resistance.


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## Rhun (Dec 22, 2009)

Okay, so that leaves us with:

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+3)
minor ring of spell storing (up to 3 spell levels; currently contains dispel magic, CL 6)
potion of cure moderate wounds (2d8+5)
amulet of finding
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

WD, why doesn't Girgal take the potions? And I'm not sure what to do with the ring of spell storing, since we are all already wearing two rings each.

On the amulet, I say we keep it in case it has uses later, but that we definitely don't wear it.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 23, 2009)

No problem. Will gladly take them


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## Rhun (Dec 23, 2009)

Walking Dad said:


> No problem. Will gladly take them




What says Girgal about dealing with the Amulet of Finding? Keep/Destroy/Bury?


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## kinem (Dec 29, 2009)

I hope everyone's having a good end of year season.

For those of you on the boards this week: Up next is a visit to a town in the Master's land.  It's not too early to discuss how you want to do it - are you all going in, cover stories, etc.


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## Rhun (Dec 29, 2009)

That is a good question. Of course, most of us can probably pass for members of the Master's forces, but probably not under hard questioning. With that said, do we have any reason to actually visit this town, or can be bypass it?


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## kinem (Dec 29, 2009)

There are 2 reasons to visit the town:

1.  You need to find out where the Master lives

2.  ooc - it's an interesting part of the module


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## Rhun (Dec 29, 2009)

kinem said:


> 1.  You need to find out where the Master lives




Quite true.



kinem said:


> 2.  ooc - it's an interesting part of the module




Well then...far be it from me to avoid town. Plus, Aram could use a nice ale. Hopefully, there is a tavern.


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## Walking Dad (Jan 6, 2010)

I'm back


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## kinem (Jan 7, 2010)

Welcome back, WD.

I know it takes a little time to get caught up ... ... ... there you go.  Done, right?  

So what's your take on the amulet of finding / ring of spell storing / going to town?

Once I know what you plan I can advance you guys to town.


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## Rhun (Jan 7, 2010)

I've been pretty swamped the last couple of weeks too, but I'm hoping to start getting caught up on everything tonight.


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## Walking Dad (Jan 7, 2010)

kinem said:


> Welcome back, WD.
> 
> I know it takes a little time to get caught up ... ... ... there you go.  Done, right?
> 
> So what's your take on the amulet of finding



 Bury or destroy. Don't think the animal trick will work that good. 







kinem said:


> / ring of spell storing /



 Keep as party treasure 







kinem said:


> going to town?



 Yes, for it seems like where the story leads.



kinem said:


> Once I know what you plan I can advance you guys to town.



Do it!


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## kinem (Jan 7, 2010)

I'll assume you bury the amulet, unless there's an objection.

There are monsters in the Master's employ, so Girgal might be able to pass himself and Ripclaw off as servants of the Master, though Ripclaw will certainly attract attention in town.  WD, I take it that you intend to take that risk.

Jex knows he is a wanted fugitive, though he would not necessarily stand out himself.  However, if his shadowy servant is seen with him, it will certainly panic the commoners as well as draw unwanted attention from the authorities.  DW, what will you do?


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## Dragonwriter (Jan 7, 2010)

Burying it is fine with me.

Jex will go along with them... No sense abandoning a group that seems like allies to him. He'll try to stay casual and Eissun will glide along beneath the ground, just beneath the surface (as the rules for Incorporeal state). I think technically, the elemental would be prone, but he's incorporeal and flying, so it's kinda strange...


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## kinem (Jan 7, 2010)

While hidden below ground, Eissun would have to depend on hearing to follow the party.  That should work fine on isolated roads but could be difficult for crowded streets.  It is reasonable to assume that Jex has worked out a series of foot stomps to signal his location to his ally in such situations, though that could be suspicious in itself.  There is also a risk of Eissun going into someone's basement, which could be minimized by staying as far from buildings as streets permit.

The other option is to tell Eissun to wait hidden outside of town.  Of course, in that case he would not be available should combat break out in town.  It's up to you how you want to play it.


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## Dragonwriter (Jan 8, 2010)

As a shadow elemental, Eissun does have Blindsight 60 ft, so he knows the exact location of everyone and everything within 60 feet, as well as being able to distinguish who/what it is, without any other senses... So it shouldn't be an issue.


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## kinem (Jan 8, 2010)

Not trying to be mean but ... no.  Blindsight is not super x-ray vision.  It does not allow you to see beyond walls.  It is blocked by anything that blocks line of effect, such as the ground.  Eissun has to rely on hearing just like I said.


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## Dragonwriter (Jan 8, 2010)

OKay. Jex will walk with a slight drag with his left foot, to indicate where he is, and if he needs Eissun to pop up, he'll make a quick triple-tap followed by a stomp. That work?


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## kinem (Jan 8, 2010)

Yup.


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## Walking Dad (Jan 8, 2010)

Would a reduce animal make ripclaw less memorable?


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## kinem (Jan 8, 2010)

In general it would to some extent, though it would be even more memorable for people who have already seen the big one to also see the 'baby'


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## Evilhalfling (Jan 11, 2010)

Darkwood beyond shore of lake Tros? 
sounds like real places. 

have we heard of this area called Hule before?  or has it just been the wastes?


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## Rhun (Jan 11, 2010)

There has been some reference to Hule. We fought and defeated the commander of the Hulean Division. But I don't know that we know much about it.


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## kinem (Jan 11, 2010)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/224316-x4-master-desert-nomads-ic-20.html#post4264853

The 2 newer PCs also know equivalent information.


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## Rhun (Jan 11, 2010)

Ah, thanks for posting that link Kinem. It was nice to re-read Aram telling those stories to the enemy, especially about Bevin and the blood-thirsty desert dwarves! 

And I forgot about the army commander writing us the note vouching for us...we probably could have used that to get through the gate!


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## kinem (Jan 13, 2010)

Have you all read the above link?  Hule is the Master's country, ruled by him and other 'holy men'.  You all know that much.

What will you do now?


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## Rhun (Jan 13, 2010)

Time to slay some Master, as soon as Aram makes sure he didn't just get robbed.


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## kinem (Mar 20, 2010)

I agree, Rhun: time for a roll call!

And here's some food for thought: Most D&D games feature a mix of combat, player interaction, and conversation between PCs and NPCs.  PBP handles combat OK, IMO, if you use group initiative.  I didn't start out using it as a PBP DM, but I saw the problems with RAW initiative and thought of a better way for PBP.

I'd like to see more player interaction, but the part that seems to cause the most problems is PC-NPC conversation.  That's because there is typically only 1 or 2 PCs that feel comfortable handling it, unlike in combat where everyone does something.  This can slow the game if the 'face' player is not posting often, and even if he is, the others can feel left out.  What to do?

In some of my previous PBP games, in which the PCs had to infiltrate enemy lands, language was an issue.  This was a realistic part of the challenge: if you are going to an exotic land, how exotic can it be if they speak the exact same language you do?  And what self-respecting adventurer would confine his travels to non-exotic lands only?  I never had any respect for TV shows in which aliens on every planet speak perfect English, and the only time accents or language barriers come into play is when people from other countries on Earth visit the heroes.

The worst was an Underdark game, in which one PC was a drow, and he was the only one who spoke their language.  The PCs could cast tongues spells but never bothered to do so as the duration was limited.  Needless to say, the other players felt left out.  I was hoping they would be more proactive about acquiring better language and disguise magic before heading into the UD, but they weren't and my NPCs didn't offer it.  In retrospect, I should have made sure that every non-drow PC had a "ring of tongues" (not just a pemanent casting, since dispel magic is not exactly a rare spell).

Here in X5, set in Mystara, it is assumed that the 'common tongue' is the same throught the continent.  It would have been more realistic to give the isolated nation of Hule its own language, which a PC or 2 might know, but I wasn't about to make that mistake again.

Even so, the basic problem of unbalanced NPC interaction remains.


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## Dragonwriter (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm still around and interested in this game. Sorry for my lack of activity in this, RL was just taking too much energy for me to really be active.

As for your concerns, Kinem, I can certainly understand them. Jex was pretty quiet in town, despite his good CHA (and rather talkative nature besides), due to him being a wanted escapee and having a really bad Bluff. Thankfully we're avoiding the other settlements along the route, so it won't be quite so much of an issue, but he's a little spooked when it comes to servants of the Master...


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## Walking Dad (Mar 20, 2010)

I'm here. Girgal waited outside during the last conversation, and I got the impression, most folks around were more trusting to humans, than monster-riding halflings 
If we meet more animals and other monsterriders, this would might be change.


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2010)

Aram has played something of the face of the group, despite his average CHA. If we level again, I hope to add some skill points to his social skills.

My biggest issue has been knowing which players are left in the game, and whether the PCs for the players that have disappeared are still around. Kiera, for example...did she leave us yet?


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## kinem (Mar 22, 2010)

Kiera's long gone - she vanished when, in identifying magic items after the Great Pass, she picked up the jade dragon you found in the giant's hoard and it teleported her to parts unknown.

The current roster is supposed to be:

Rhun - Aram
Walking Dad - Girgal
Dragonwriter - Jex
evilhalfling - Father Fuller

I don't know if evilhalfling's still around - he hasn't posted in a while.  If not, I may have to NPC FF.


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2010)

kinem said:


> Kiera's long gone - she vanished when, in identifying magic items after the Great Pass, she picked up the jade dragon you found in the giant's hoard and it teleported her to parts unknown.




Now that you've jogged my memory, I recall that happening. 



kinem said:


> The current roster is supposed to be:
> 
> Rhun - Aram
> Walking Dad - Girgal
> ...




Okay, good deal. I had it right, then.


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## kinem (May 4, 2010)

In case you missed it, DW, Jex can act now.


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## Rhun (May 4, 2010)

I'd post, but "Aram continues to flee" gets a little old after a while.


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## Dragonwriter (May 4, 2010)

Oops... 

Sorry guys. I'll get something up there soon.


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## Rhun (May 4, 2010)

Its up to Jex and Girgal!


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## Walking Dad (Jun 4, 2010)

Sorry for posting silence. I just have no idea what to do.


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## Rhun (Jun 4, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> Sorry for posting silence. I just have no idea what to do.




I'll try to take a bit of the lead here, but I still need a bit on input.


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2011)

Guys, I think a strategic withdrawal is in order, considering that Girgal is down.


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2011)

Also, if anyone is holding back...this is the time to stop. Lay down your most powerful spells now, because this is a major battle, and these appear to be The Master's most powerful minions.


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## Dragonwriter (Mar 22, 2011)

Sounds about right to me.

Somewhat unfortunately, Jex doesn't have the standard "big guns". Shadow magic tries to be a bit more subtle. But I do have something to cover our escape (Shadow Evocation -> Wind Wall, to stop the archers as we run).


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2011)

Doesn't he have _Black Tentacles?_ That could come in handy, especially if you can catch the spellcasters with it.


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## Dragonwriter (Mar 22, 2011)

Nope, and I don't think there's an equivalent Mystery for it.

If anyone tries following us away after we start running and I get the Wind Wall up, I can try Clinging Darkness (roots them in place), but nothing as potent as Black Tentacles... And I used up what amounts to my counterspell attempt.


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2011)

Dragonwriter said:


> Nope, and I don't think there's an equivalent Mystery for it.
> 
> If anyone tries following us away after we start running and I get the Wind Wall up, I can try Clinging Darkness (roots them in place), but nothing as potent as Black Tentacles... And I used up what amounts to my counterspell attempt.




I think I saw Black Fire or something and just misread it...bummer, Black Tentacles would have been a great way to handle the casters.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 22, 2011)

Rhun said:


> Guys, I think a strategic withdrawal is in order, considering that Girgal is down.



I still hope Fuller can heal me before I have to post an action. Ripclaw will just hold me out of the water otherwise.


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## Rhun (Mar 22, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> I still hope Fuller can heal me before I have to post an action. Ripclaw will just hold me out of the water otherwise.




I hope so too. It is times like this I start thinking we need a designated wizard!


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## kinem (Mar 22, 2011)

Fuller was holding back a little in the beginning because he didn't know what the party was up against. For instance, he didn't cast haste or other buff spells before the battle because he was saving that for the fight with the Master. Also, it was probably a mistake for him to go west towards Aram and Jex instead of east towards Girgal, Eissun and the enemy spellcasters. I guess he saw Aram as the one who's always getting into trouble 

Right now he can't see Girgal, and he couldn't reach him this round to heal him anyway given where they each are right now.

Ripclaw can still walk with Girgal, and the stinking cloud is gone. Perhaps, knowing that his master is in trouble, he would head towards the rest of the party?


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## Walking Dad (Mar 23, 2011)

Make it so


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## Rhun (Mar 23, 2011)

Fuller wasn't the only one that wasn't exactly prepared for this fight!


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## Rhun (Mar 26, 2011)

In the words of the character Hudson from Aliens: "...we just got our asses kicked."


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## Jemal (Mar 30, 2011)

Ahoy!  Since this is pretty much the only game I see still running that I was in before my hiatus, I figured I'd pop in and apologize for the disappearing act(August 2009).  By the time I got my internet fixed, my computer was having problems, and it was a while before I got THAT fixed.. by the time I was able to get back onto ENWorld, I'd lost momentum (And my character had been ka-bamfed and replaced), so I just cut my losses.  I'd always planned on returning, but never thought it'd be this long before I had time again.

Anywyas, just thought I'd say sorry from dropping out on you, congrats on keeping the game going for so long!

Oh, and if you have any openings in the future, Maybe Keira's still got that jade figurine of teleportation.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 30, 2011)

Hey, Jemal!

You missed most of the XP think and I have now more posts than you 

I think we could use your help.


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## Rhun (Mar 30, 2011)

Good to see you back, Jemal.


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## kinem (Mar 30, 2011)

Good to see you're alive & kicking, Jemal. Welcome back to the board.

We are nearing the end game. If the party beats the current challenge  ... perhaps they will find Keira in time for the final battle


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## Rhun (Mar 30, 2011)

kinem said:


> We are nearing the end game. If the party beats the current challenge




I say we use stealth!


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## Dragonwriter (Mar 30, 2011)

Here's my level-up info. And I'm going to wait to update Jex until I've gotten the OK from you, kinem. 

[sblock=New Level]
Taking Master of Shadow 4.
BAB, Fort and Will +1 each.
5+2 HP.
Resistance to Cold 10 Class Feature.
+1 Mystery-user level. Gain 1 mystery of up to 5th level (Echo Spell, usable 1/day).
Skills (5 points): +1 Concentration, +1 Hide (cross-class), +1 Spellcraft, +1 Spot

Eissun gains 1 bonus HD (4+3 HP gained)
BAB +1 (total +8).

(I also noticed a mistake in Eissun’s portion of the sheet, regarding his Reflex save. It was down by 3 points… Now fixed.)
[/sblock]

As for plans... Jex would be OK with stealth. I suppose we ought to try the carpet and focus on the Dagger.


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## kinem (Mar 30, 2011)

Looks fine, DW.


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## Rhun (Mar 30, 2011)

Dragonwriter said:


> As for plans... Jex would be OK with stealth. I suppose we ought to try the carpet and focus on the Dagger.




Father Fuller isn't so good with stealth, but perhaps some magics would help.


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## Walking Dad (Mar 31, 2011)

Stealth is fine. I would like to see the planning done before posting Girgal's new spell list (not many other decisions to make at level 10).


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## Rhun (Mar 31, 2011)

Well I'm thinking now that we should take the magic carpet and board the airship above the Temple. If we leave in the wee morning hours, darkness should provide us with cover. With luck, we could take over the airship before anyone down below even knows we are there.


What do you guys think of that plan?


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## Dragonwriter (Mar 31, 2011)

An early morning assault could work... We'd just have to be even more careful (don't want to fall off the airship or lose the carpet). And we'd have to wait another day. 

And waiting another day gives the enemy time to get a search going or brace themselves and prepare better. I doubt they're going to think we just walked away.


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## Rhun (Mar 31, 2011)

Dragonwriter said:


> And waiting another day gives the enemy time to get a search going or brace themselves and prepare better. I doubt they're going to think we just walked away.




Good point, although I'm sure they've already beefed up their defenses just in the intervening 8 hours. And they certainly won't be expecting us to fly.


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## Rhun (Apr 5, 2011)

I'm a bit behind getting Aram leveled up, but hopefully I can have that taken care of in the next couple of days.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 5, 2011)

Rhun said:


> I'm a bit behind getting Aram leveled up, but hopefully I can have that taken care of in the next couple of days.



Same here, sorry. But I cannot update Girgal's spells without our new plan anyway. We got schooled last time


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## Rhun (Apr 6, 2011)

Alright, Aram is updated to Level 10 (took a 3rrd level in Dervish). Not a whole lot of changes for him, but they are done.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 7, 2011)

I feel ill and am supposed to make a trip with the children over the weekend. Please don't expect much posting until Monday.


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## Rhun (Apr 7, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> I feel ill and am supposed to make a trip with the children over the weekend. Please don't expect much posting until Monday.




Get better quick, and have some fun with the kids!


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## kinem (Apr 7, 2011)

Rhun said:


> Get better quick, and have some fun with the kids!




Ditto


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## kinem (Apr 14, 2011)

How's it going?

Any IC plans?


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## Walking Dad (Apr 14, 2011)

The dagger was pointing to the flying ship, right?


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## kinem (Apr 14, 2011)

Yesterday, when you were in the ground floor eastern part of the east tower, it indicated to Aram somewhere to the west.

Today, it indicated the general direction of the temple. You're too far away to know what part of the temple.


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## Rhun (Apr 14, 2011)

I'm still pushing Aram's plan of using the magic carpet to assault the flying ship. I was hoping the group would either A) go along with it, or B) come up with something else.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 14, 2011)

I lack a better idea, so I say let's go with it. Girgal will keep Ripclaw hidden back on the earth and not take him with them.


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## Rhun (Apr 14, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> I lack a better idea, so I say let's go with it. Girgal will keep Ripclaw hidden back on the earth and not take him with them.




Is that going to be okay? I didn't even think about Ripclaw...but I guess we probably can't get him on a flying carpet, huh?


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## Rhun (Apr 26, 2011)

Bump!

So, what's the plan guys? Is every one onboard with trying the magic carpet?


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## Walking Dad (Apr 27, 2011)

Onboard, but still have not updated Girgal. Sorry.


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## Rhun (Apr 27, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Onboard, but still have not updated Girgal. Sorry.




No worries. Just hadn't seen much response in the game of late, and I want to make sure it doesn't die!


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## Dragonwriter (Apr 27, 2011)

Ack, sorry for the silence from me as well. RL has been throwing up roadblocks. 

I'm up for attempting the magic carpet. The plan was to head for the skyship, right? Doesn't change my answer anyway, just trying to remember. And it's not like I can prep different spells for the occasion.


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## Rhun (Apr 27, 2011)

Dragonwriter said:


> I'm up for attempting the magic carpet. The plan was to head for the skyship, right? Doesn't change my answer anyway, just trying to remember. And it's not like I can prep different spells for the occasion.




That is the plan. Not sure if it is a good one, or a bad one, but it is something.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 28, 2011)

Girgal changes for 10th level:

+1 Bab = +7/+2

+1 to Fort & Will save

1 additional use of wild shape

6 skill ranks

Not sure how we determined HP/ Level, but 1d8+2


add 1 4th and 1 5th level spell. New Spell list is:

Spells:
0 (6) -  cure minor wounds x2, light x2, detect magic x2
1 (4) – (jump), produce flame 2, vigor (lesser) x2 - faery fire,
2 (4) - (spiderclimb), barkskin x2, animalistic power, blinding spittle – snake swiftness, mass
3 (3) – (protection from energy), Blindsight, Call Lightning – greater magic fang
4 (2) – (freedom of movement), Air Walk, SNA 4 x2 -  Enhance wildshape
5 (2) - (SNA 5), Greater stone shape, Panacea - Animal Growth

will add to RG sheet after approval.


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## Rhun (Apr 28, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Not sure how we determined HP/ Level, but 1d8+2




I'm pretty sure it is just 1/2 hit points.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 28, 2011)

Half d8 is actually 4.5 (because you cannot get a 0).

So, 4 or 5?


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## Rhun (Apr 28, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Half d8 is actually 4.5 (because you cannot get a 0).
> 
> So, 4 or 5?




Right. I believe it would be 4 at even levels, and 5 at odd levels (making 4.5 over the course of time).


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## kinem (Apr 28, 2011)

For this game it's 5 (half rounded up).


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## Rhun (Apr 28, 2011)

kinem said:


> For this game it's 5 (half rounded up).




Oh, then I need to fix Aram! LOL.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 28, 2011)

kinem said:


> For this game it's 5 (half rounded up).



Rest is fine? The Panacea spell is from the spell compendium.


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## Rhun (Apr 28, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Rest is fine? The Panacea spell is from the spell compendium.




Does it help us win fights?


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## kinem (Apr 29, 2011)

Looks OK to me.


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## Walking Dad (Apr 29, 2011)

Rhun said:


> Does it help us win fights?



No, it helps us not to die. It is a 'status' healing spell.


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## Rhun (Apr 29, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> No, it helps us not to die. It is a 'status' healing spell.




Well, not dying would help us when fights.


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## kinem (May 8, 2011)

I've been very busy lately but will try to post IC tonight or more likely Monday.


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## Rhun (May 8, 2011)

kinem said:


> I've been very busy lately but will try to post IC tonight or more likely Monday.




No worries Kinem. A slow game is better than a dead game, I always say.


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## kinem (Jun 13, 2011)

I hope to update this evening.

I expect this confrontation with the Master to be the final battle, one way or the other ...

In theory the campaign could continue but I do feel the need to lighten my obligations here.

It's been a very good game and thanks to each of you!


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## Rhun (Jun 13, 2011)

Again, no worries, Kinem. I've been swamped myself. And hopefully we end the game on a heroic note!


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## Walking Dad (Jun 13, 2011)

I'm with Rhun, this is / was a great game!


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## Dragonwriter (Jun 13, 2011)

Even though I joined late in this game, I have been glad to be part of it.

And if this is likely to be the final battle, then let's make it one awesome battle!


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## kinem (Aug 17, 2011)

Sorry for the delay  I will update tomorrow.


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## Rhun (Aug 17, 2011)

kinem said:


> Sorry for the delay  I will update tomorrow.




No worries.


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