# Able Learner



## Nytewolf (Jun 17, 2006)

What are the specific requirements and effects of this feat??

Its from Races of Destiny.


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## Staffan (Jun 17, 2006)

Prereq: Human or doppleganger.

In an Eberron campaign, I'd definitely expand that to include Changeling.


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## Nifft (Jun 17, 2006)

You also must be 1st level to take the feat.

Isn't this more of a D&D Rules question?

 -- N


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## Nytewolf (Jun 17, 2006)

Nifft said:
			
		

> You also must be 1st level to take the feat.
> 
> Isn't this more of a D&D Rules question?
> 
> -- N




Yes it is I posted it in the wrong thread.

Thank you for the information about level and such but what does the feat do?


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## Staffan (Jun 17, 2006)

You can buy any skill for 1 skill point per rank, but you are still limited in the max ranks you can buy in cross-class skills. So an Able Learner 5th level fighter could buy up Hide to  4 ranks, but no higher, by paying 4 skill points.


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## Whimsical (Jun 19, 2006)

Able Learner is a global feat that every character in my campaign automatically gets.


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## Votan (Jun 19, 2006)

Whimsical said:
			
		

> Able Learner is a global feat that every character in my campaign automatically gets.




This appears to penalize skilled characters considerably and make the class skills mean a lot less.  It isn't necessarily a bad idea but it might have unexpected balance issues.  The feat itself is almost too good but massively improves multi-classing.  However, making it freely available seems extreme.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 28, 2010)

It doesn't seem all that when multi-classing.  It won't allow a character with max ranks in their class skill advance their skills as cross-class when they level their other class.

For example, I'm building a Bard/Fighter.  I max out my Perform at 1st level.  I take my next level as Fighter.  I cannot add any of my Fighter skill points to Perform because I have already exceeded the max allowable skill points for Able Learner (Cross-class limit would be 2.5, so you'd lose half a point of your bonus.)

... unless I'm missing something.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 28, 2010)

Votan said:


> This appears to penalize skilled characters considerably and make the class skills mean a lot less.  It isn't necessarily a bad idea but it might have unexpected balance issues.  The feat itself is almost too good but massively improves multi-classing.  However, making it freely available seems extreme.



Trailblazer and Pathfinder eliminated half-ranks for cross-class skills and simply give a one-time bonus to trained class skills, without having any real problems that I'm aware of.


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## Nimloth (Mar 28, 2010)

Votan said:


> This appears to penalize skilled characters considerably and make the class skills mean a lot less.  It isn't necessarily a bad idea but it might have unexpected balance issues.  The feat itself is almost too good but massively improves multi-classing.  However, making it freely available seems extreme.




My gaming group has been playing this way for years and haven't had any balance problems.  IMHO, this is how the skill system should have been done in the 1st place.  As it is, a character is double penalized for buying a cross-class skill (costs 2 points and a lower maximum).


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## StreamOfTheSky (Mar 28, 2010)

_Thread Necromancy VI_



Herobizkit said:


> It doesn't seem all that when multi-classing.  It won't allow a character with max ranks in their class skill advance their skills as cross-class when they level their other class.
> 
> For example, I'm building a Bard/Fighter.  I max out my Perform at 1st level.  I take my next level as Fighter.  I cannot add any of my Fighter skill points to Perform because I have already exceeded the max allowable skill points for Able Learner (Cross-class limit would be 2.5, so you'd lose half a point of your bonus.)
> 
> ... unless I'm missing something.




And you are missing something.  When you multiclass, any skills on any of your classes' skill lists permanently become "class skills" in terms of the limit on how many ranks you can put in (HD +3).  But if you spend skill points from a class that lacks it as a class skill, you pay 2 skill points for every rank.  Able Learner obviously removes this penalty, so in other words, Able Learner + class with all or nearly all skills as class skills = all skills are now class skills for you, both in cost and max you can invest.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/classes/multiclass.htm
"Skills
If a skill is a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, then character level determines a skill’s maximum rank. (The maximum rank for a class skill is 3 + character level.) 

If a skill is not a class skill for any of a multiclass character’s classes, the maximum rank for that skill is one-half the maximum for a class skill. "


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## Herobizkit (Mar 28, 2010)

Thanks, Stream!  Everything is clear to me now, and I did it right the frist time I made the character (but then thought I didn't because it felt like I was cheating somehow).


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## Thanael (Mar 28, 2010)

The ultimate feat resource online: Feats

Feat - Able Learner


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## Zarndelius (Mar 15, 2011)

If it's a class skill regardless if you multi-class then what is the rational behind the Human Paragon ability that allows one skill to always be a class skill, regardless of the current class? (Curious as one of my characters has levels in Human Paragon and the Able Learner feat).


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## Herzog (Mar 15, 2011)

The one skill of the paragon that allways is a class skill will allow you to spend one skillpoint per rank, regardless of your class, up to lvl+3.
All other skills that have been a class skill at one time can be bought up to lvl+3 as well, but cost two skillpoints per rank when bought with a class for which the skill is not a class skill.

Able Learner allows you to buy all skills at one skillpoint per rank, and allows you to buy them up to lvl+3 for those skills that have been a class skill at some point. 

In other words, it makes the Human Paragon class skill kind of obsolete (unless it isn't one of your class skills for any of your classes, in which case it removes the cross class cap of (lvl+3)/2


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## Zarndelius (Mar 15, 2011)

Just so I have this down, tell me if I'm correct.

A Human Paragon with the Able Learner feat:

*If at one time the skill was a class skill in a previous class, treat it as a class skill always.

*If it wasn't a class skill in a previous class, and isn't in your current class, then you may spend one point for one rank, but must obey the cross-class rank cap.

*The skill chosen for Human Paragon may be maxed (Lvl+3) as if it is always a class skill, not hindered by any means by the cross-class skill rules.

So tedious, and interesting if even if RAW, if it was intended to be as such.

I really don't see it hindering the skill monkey classes though, as the amount of skill points they get will still make them better, and they can always get able learner as well I suppose. 

Googled "Able Learner" which is the very reason I brought this thread back to life, so thanks for the input.


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## aboyd (Mar 15, 2011)

Zarndelius necro'd the thread.  

Regarding the Human Paragon question, you should note that the rules only set the skill to use the class skill _cap_ -- buying ranks still costs double.  So the Human Paragon ability is still awesome.

In other words, say you have a rogue/fighter.  The rogue maxes out his Hide skill.  That's 4 ranks at level 1.  Next level, he takes fighter.  A fighter doesn't have Hide on his list of class skills, so he must pay double to put more ranks into Hide.  However, the Hide skill is _capped_ as if he still had it as a class skill.  It only affects the cap.  So technically, the fighter could get the Hide skill up to 5 now, but it'll cost him 2 points to gain that single rank he needs to get it up to 5 total.

Human Paragon selecting Hide for his "always a class skill" feature will allow him to spend 1 point to raise Hide 1 rank.


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## Zarndelius (Mar 15, 2011)

I go off the SRD for UA material, as I don't have the book, but it stats



> Adaptive Learning (Ex)
> At 1st level, a human paragon can designate any one of his human paragon class skills as an adaptive skill. This skill is treated as a class skill in all respects for all classes that character has levels in, both current and future. For example, if a human paragon chooses Spot as an adaptive skill, he treats Spot as a class skill for all future class levels he gains, even if it is not normally a class skill for the class in question.




But the multi-class rules for skills mentioned above on a link provided states that the previous class skill (and not now a class skill) may follow the level+3 cap, but still needs the 2 points for one rank. Able Learner would would defuse this downfall. 

At least that's my interpretation. The Adoptive learning does seem obsolete if you also have Able Learner, but still, picking which skills you can have as class skills as a human paragon is still pretty bad @$$. I mean your essentially (if you get Able Learner + Human Paragon) hand picking which skills you want for class skills forever.


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## Herobizkit (Mar 18, 2011)

Sounds like to me that with Able Learner, you pay the same 1/skill rank skills from both classes of a multi-class character to count as a class skill when you level up the "other" class.  And with Human Paragon, you get one more skill to count for both that you don't already have from Able Learner.

For example, a Fighter 1/Bard 1 has all Fighter and all Bard skills as class skills, and the Able Learner Feat.  When he next levels up Fighter, he can pay the regular 1/skill rank to increase any of his Bard skills (versus each rank costing 0.5 for leveling a skill not associated with the new level increase).  

Human Paragon can add a new skill that is not on the Fighter OR Bard skill list, and it will count as a class skill for Fighter AND Bard.

Meow?


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## Particle_Man (Mar 18, 2011)

If you take Factotum for one level, all your worries disappear.


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