# D&D Wild West style!



## tecnowraith (Dec 23, 2006)

I am about to design a world where it is a typical D&D but with a twist. I want to add the themes of the wild west like societies, culture and profession to a typical D&D fantasy world, examples would be half-orc cowboys or eleven spirit warriors (these might change). I do not want anything too cliche with mixing of themes. Think how Eberron has a pulp style where my world Wild West style to a D&D fantasy world. 

So far the things am asking myself are as follows: 
What would be a cool D&D creature/monster to domesticated as a riding beast besides dragons and dinosaurs? What would be good item to replace guns in this world besides wands?

Any suggestions or ideas is welcome.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Dec 23, 2006)

I'd keep it simple and have the hand crossbow be the standard sidearm.

I wouldn't mess with horses beyond adding the magecraft template to them.


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## Herobizkit (Dec 23, 2006)

Mounts: Steampunk horses, or lizards.  Also, there was some crazy featherless bird-like creature from an older 1e supplenet that was kinda like an ostrich/lizard that shot fireballs out of gill-like sockets on either side of its head... those could be fun.

Guns: How about... guns?   Either the traditions six-shooter or maybe even energy weapons could be fun.  The hand crossbow's a nice idea too.  You could also pull a Dark Sun-esque twist and have primitive ranged weapons like the bola, sling, boomerang, and so on.

I've always wanted to run a D&D/Steampunk/Western.  Or Brave Starr.  Look it up; it's like if He-Man and his world was Native American...


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## Kwitchit (Dec 23, 2006)

Mounts- the Arms and Equipment Guide has some cool mount ideas. Deinonychus, worgs, Undead horses, horse-shaped golems, giant vermin, or even wyverns.


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## smootrk (Dec 23, 2006)

You could take a few cues from the Deadlands D20 game:

Have Arcane casters use decks of cards as somatic materials for spells.

Have an Artificer class that operates a little more like mad scientist (like crazy contraptions like in the old TV show/movie "Wild Wild West").

And you must replace the term 'inn' with 'saloon' and always have those signature saloon doors for the entry, just inside from the hitchin posts.


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## Varianor Abroad (Dec 23, 2006)

Repeating hand crossbows - maybe even firing magic missiles. Magical-powered steam trains (but not the Lightning Rail). Sorceror Pony Express riders (hmm no fly spells?). Elves and/or orcs as natives. Druids are the native shaman. Rogues are gamblers. It's a cool idea. Good luck with this!


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Dec 23, 2006)

Look at TSR's _Savage Coast/Red Steel_ cmapaign setting. Generally it was heavily influenced by Spanish/Portugese colonial New World, however there were two nations that were direct analogs of themes found in Wild West archetypes. Revolutionary Mexico, and Texas. The material is now avaiable online for free download.

In an earlier iteration of the Savage Coast (pre-AD&D) the nation of Cimarron (M-Texas) used repeating hand crossbows. However, later on, under the AD&D iteration, the region developed a magical "smokepowder" that was used to create primitive rifles and handgun.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 23, 2006)

Herobizkit said:
			
		

> I've always wanted to run a D&D/Steampunk/Western.  Or Brave Starr.  Look it up; it's like if He-Man and his world was Native American...










One of my favourite cartoons from my youth. The tagline for this poster originally was something like: "They needed 1000 lawmen. They got one. He was enough." 

 

As to the OP, this is a pretty cool idea. I'd say make sure to capture some of the larger setting points for the old west: small towns in a wild frontier that nearly ran themselves; sherrifs being the local law (not hard since that is a medieval position anyway); the federal marshals; wealthy and powerful cattle barons (nobles); outlaws; aboriginal peoples fighting for their land and way of life (elves); saloons, gamblers and prostitues; crazy prospectors up in the hills (dwarves..."Thar's goooold in them thar hills!"). As far as mounts go I'd say have a few options maybe; giant flightless birds, celestial horses, nightmares, or those creatures from darksun that served as mounts and beasts of burden (mekillots, kanks, etc...). For the gunslingers/ guns I'd say the most important part of maintaining the theme is just having duels: you don't necessarily need a ranged weapon. Instead of gunslingers you could have swordsmen dueling in the street at high noon; arcane duels would be cool too (sorcerors would  make interesting "gunslingers"). But hand crossbows or handle-mounted wands would be cool too. Come to think of it, I think I have an old issue of Dungeon with an adventure set in a wild-west-themed fantasy setting. I'll see if I can figure out which issue....

Cool idea!


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## Klaus (Dec 23, 2006)

Precisely. Cimarron County had orders of Honorbound (2e kit) that were pretty much US Marshalls (whereas the rakasta honorbound from Bellayne were samurai).

The "native Americans" of Cimarron County were the gnoll tribes from El Grande Carrascal.

Me <heart> my Red Steel and Savage Baronies boxed sets.


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## Stormborn (Dec 23, 2006)

Spellslinger will have some ideas on this, although it has its own classes.

My take:

Setting:  A newly opening frontier (open for whatever reason you want, the defeat of an ancient evil necromancer, improved modes of transportation, etc.)  being settled after a war.  The war sets up a situation similar to the wild west, in which people with the training that only war brings and the upheval in lives that only war brings move to the frontier.  This gives you a reason to have adventurers with training beyond that of the ordinary person.  In this frontier resources are discovered - mines would be the obvious choice but in a DnD wordl it can just as easilly be ruins of a past civilization.

Mounts:  Keep horses, it will be easier on you in the long run and it will be one less setting detail for your players to keep up with. Perhaps there are wild magical horses that are highly sought prizes.  Herd animals, on the other hand, might be different with a little more variety.

Natives:  Gnolls, Minotaur, Lizardfolk, orcs, or goblinoids all are possibilities.  Depends partly on what you want the "civilized" lands to be like.  Any race you want to leave out of there you can add in here.  

Guns:  Magelocks.  A handheld clockwork device in which a crystal is placed. These crystals are charged with magical energy.  A small hammer stikes the crystal when the trigger is pulled, discharging the energy.  Requires a ranged touch attack to hit.  Damage is 1d6x spell level expended to charge the crystal.  A full round action is required to change crystals, rapid reload drops it to a move action.  A feat tree allows a caster to charge it without removing the crystal, first as a move action then as a free action around the time they can cast 5th level spells.  A natural "1" cracks the crystal and it cannot be recharged.  A confirmed critical failure (two "1"s in a row) causes it to discharge in the weapon, ruining it and damaging the weilder.  Another feat allows spontaneous arcane casters who can aquire a familiar to bond with the magelock instead.    Typically these weapons are only used by spell casters (allowing them to focus spells known on more utilitarian spells), creating sorcereous  "Shooters" as the most notorious gunfighters. Most other people would use crossbows, or if you want to add that element, regular guns.

Other Ideas:  Paladins as Imperial Marshalls.  Bards as gentleman gamblers.  Rogues as local sheriffs as well as notorious outlaws.  Warmages and Sorcerers who foughts in the hardest combats in the war, now mustered out and regretting the horrors they caused in the war, Wizards few and far between out in the wilds but a few as mad inventors shunned back "east", Asian classes brought out to build the new frontier, Barbarians,Druids, and Scouts only in the "savage" races.


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## tecnowraith (Dec 23, 2006)

Darth Shoju said:
			
		

> As to the OP, this is a pretty cool idea. I'd say make sure to capture some of the larger setting points for the old west: small towns in a wild frontier that nearly ran themselves; sherrifs being the local law (not hard since that is a medieval position anyway); the federal marshals; wealthy and powerful cattle barons (nobles); outlaws; aboriginal peoples fighting for their land and way of life (elves); saloons, gamblers and prostitues; crazy prospectors up in the hills (dwarves..."Thar's goooold in them thar hills!"). As far as mounts go I'd say have a few options maybe; giant flightless birds, celestial horses, nightmares, or those creatures from darksun that served as mounts and beasts of burden (mekillots, kanks, etc...). For the gunslingers/ guns I'd say the most important part of maintaining the theme is just having duels: you don't necessarily need a ranged weapon. Instead of gunslingers you could have swordsmen dueling in the street at high noon; arcane duels would be cool too (sorcerors would  make interesting "gunslingers"). But hand crossbows or handle-mounted wants would be cool too. Come to think of it, I think I have an old issue of Dungeon with an adventure set in a wild-west-themed fantasy setting. I'll see if I can figure out which issue....
> 
> Cool idea![/QUOTE]
> 
> You got the right idea of what I am trying to do. I thought about the duels with swords where you channel magical blast through a bladed weapond. A little more advanced technique than the Duskblade but something like Swordsage, maybe. Loved Bravestarr and Sliverhawks and Blackstar and Thundarr but back on topic. What I might do is create a cheaper version a wand where it hold less charges but you can have many of them where you can insert them into mofidied crossbows.


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## tecnowraith (Dec 23, 2006)

The thing I am working on now are the playable races and which wild west culture would fit them more. I do not want to repeat the other campaigns like Eberron, FR or Iron Kingdoms. The cultures (or ethnic groups) that were popular in the west were Indians, Chinese, Mexicans, Spanish and European-American.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 23, 2006)

I found the Dungeon mag I was thinking about (issue # 80). The adventure is "Fortune Favours the Dead" and isn't so much based on the wild west as medieval Spain. It still evokes a wild west feel though...






The adventure mentions that character mounting her _wand of paralyzation_ on a crossbow stock and modifying it so the trigger functioned as the command word. Kind of a cool idea.


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## scourger (Dec 23, 2006)

Defnitely check out Spellslinger:

http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/hr04.html

It's a fun little d20 western game.  I used it to run a mini-campaign; sort of like a Wild West D&D.


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## Cthulhudrew (Dec 24, 2006)

Toyed with the idea in various ways myself. Personally, I'd be inclined to have the elves replace the Native Americans- make them more "natural" in their technologies than they are generally represented in fantasy literature (no iron or steel, using wooden/bone/stone weaponry) but having advanced knowledge of nature magics (either have them be very druidical in their leanings- change their favored class, or else maybe more sorcerers than wizards). Dwarves certainly fit the typical "prospector" niche, with gnomes filling the roles of the technological innovations nicely. The current "nomadic" halfling archetype of 3E works well with the frontiersmen/explorers of the "New World".

As far as your specific questions, I've always thought that the Owlbears would make some really interesting domesticated beasts of burden. For that matter, maybe you could have the owlbear serve as the replacement for the buffalo on the plains.

Most of the other types have been done before to one extent or another (hippogriff, griffon). A gorgon might be a cool domesticated type of beast replacing cattle (despite their entry saying they can't be domesticated). Wonder what type of milk it might make? Maybe it just produces yoghurt? (You know, the whole "stone breath" thing?)

As for weaponry, as others have suggested you might just go with guns. Crossbows are a more than suitable fantasy replacement, as are wands as you have mentioned.


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Dec 24, 2006)

C.f., Firefly.


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## Kunimatyu (Dec 24, 2006)

I ran a game very similar to this over the past six months -- there's a thread with the basic info here: http://true20.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=742

The players enjoyed it so much I'm doing a followup in the New Orleans-ish town in the same setting amidst the swamps and bayous.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 24, 2006)

I second the suggestion for checking out Deadlands.

Some other things to consider:

1) Harry Turtledove's _Darkness_ series, a retelling of WW2 but in a fantasy world, featured a different kind of staff that fired a beam of eldrich energy and was rechargeable.  While it was usually recharged by wizards, it could also be recharged with life energy...

IOW, guns.

In D&D, you could consider them a magic rod/staff/wand (DM's campaign design decision) that only fires something akin to a warlock's eldrich blast, rechargeable with spell levels or warlock's blasts or some such.  Recharging it necromantically would require a Feat.

2) One of D&D's designer's PCs (Rary?  Whomever, I believe he was in the 1Ed Rogues Gallery product) from the days of 1Ed was dressed in Western garb and fired Magic Missiles from a pair of six-guns.  Without the guns, he couldn't fire the MM, and they couldn't fire real bullets, either.

Again, its some kind of gun.  As I recall, the mechanic of this PC made it function more like a Warlock's eldrich blasts, but with the limitation that the PC have a certain material component (the "shootin' irons).

This could be handled with a modified "Innate Spell" type feat that, because you have to have an "attuned magic item" to cast the spell, you don't have many level adjustments on the spell.  Psionics or Incarnum would probably work as well.

3) For Native Americans, I'd sub the D&D equivalent of the Sky Elves of Elfquest.  IOW, Giant-Eagle riding masters of the plains.  OTOH, I have also cast Minotaurs in that role in a 2Ed campaign (for the record, "Indians" with giant-sized bows are MEAN)- though they used chariots, not actual steeds.

You could also have various RW nationalities reflected by the plethora of sentient races available in 3.5, and sprinkle these new nationalities throughout your Arcane West.

For example:

The stereotypical Dwarves seem Teutonic/Germanic, though the Drow were also inspired by teutonic legends.  You could give Germany to the Dwarves and places like Finland and Iceland to the Drow.  They'd even still be the "Dark" elves, living in inhospitable climates with the long days and nights found in/near the arctic circle.  In the Americas, they'd gravitate towards the more northern climes.

The post-Ottoman Empire arabs could be represented by Orcs- fierce warriors with a great culture in flux, spearheading advances in science and philosophy while sheltering pirates out of Tripoli.  Half-Orcs would be the result of the Ottoman expansion into Europe, resulting in them being the majority of the Balkans, many of whom were among the first European settlers of America.

Gnomes could represent the Asian nationalities- assuming you don't use OA or similar products- and, like in the RW, would emigrate to the Americas to work on the railroads and the gold mines of California.

And so forth...

4) Alternative mounts: other than the giant eagles mentioned above, consider:

Kurt Giambastiani's "Fallen Coud Saga" alt version of the Wild West had no oddball races, but the Native Americans rode some kind of velociraptors.

http://www.sff.net/people/giambastiani/Novels.htm

Similarly, and slightly less fantastical, you could have them ride large flightless birds.  Moas and other "terror birds" were definitely large enough to serve as steeds- people can ride the much smaller Ostrich in races- some American species survived as recently as 15K years ago, and one (the Elephant Bird) survived on Madagascar up until 300 years ago.  A little twist, and instead of killing them off, the Native Americans domesticate them.  They are powerful animals, very fast of foot, and with fearsome natural weapons.  The Axe-Beak is one D&D take on them, there may be others.

http://www.newanimal.org/moas.htm

The aforementioned Turtledove books also features fire-breathing dragons of animal intelligence and camel-like disposition that serve as the basis of the air corps for his world's air forces.  However, to keep their fires burning, they must be fed coal and cinnabar, so mines of those resources are of great strategic importance.

You might want to check out comic-book characters like Ka-Zar and Turok.

Other good sources would be the 2 TV series _Wild, Wild West _ and _The Adventures of Briscoe County, Jr._, and to a slightly lesser extent, _Kung Fu._

I also liked the suggestion of clockwork critters as steeds.  Perhaps the Native Americans use Terror Birds and the invading Europeans use Clockwork Horses...

Heck, you could even have Whaleriders or _Dune_-like Worm riders- goodness knows there are plenty of worms in D&D.


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## Kunimatyu (Dec 24, 2006)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 2) One of D&D's designer's PCs (Rary?  Whomever, I believe he was in the 1Ed Rogues Gallery product) from the days of 1Ed was dressed in Western garb and fired Magic Missiles from a pair of six-guns.  Without the guns, he couldn't fire the MM, and they couldn't fire real bullets, either.




I've run a Warlock in an Eberron game using a similar mechanic; he had to have his guns to "shoot" his eldritch blasts. It worked well, and the player really got a kick out of it.


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## S'mon (Dec 24, 2006)

Traditional Gygaxian D&D has always been very much "Wild West Middle Ages" in flavour, with orcs instead of Red Indians. The one thing I'd say it lacks is the concept of honour and thus the 'honourable duel', the high noon showdown *on equal terms*, that turns an act of violence from murder to something honourable and quasi-legal.  D&D PCs are encouraged to use all the advantages they can  get - if you've ever tried to run a tourney and told the players "no magic items in the joust",  you'll know what I mean!


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## S'mon (Dec 24, 2006)

I notice several suggestions above that in 'Western D&D' the 'other' be 'Native American' elves, rather than 'Redskin' orcs.  Be warned that this postmodernist 'Dances with Wolves' approach to the genre will actually take your game further away from the traditional Western than standard Gygaxian D&D.  If the natives are the good guys, doesn't that mean the settlers (humans, presumably) are the bad guys?  

You can try to resolve this by having 'good native' elves vs 'bad native' orcs, but the natural logic of the colonisation setting would be for the orcs and elves to unite against the colonising humans!  So then either you run a game where PC elves and (half) orcs battle the genocidal human invaders, or the PCs are the Evil side, committing genocide against the innocent elves.


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## Klaus (Dec 24, 2006)

As for guns, you could have them grant the Reserve feat "Force Needles" to the wielder, firing tiny shards of force at the target. Of course, the wielder needs to know (or have prepared) a force spell, so you're looking at spellcasting gunslingers.

Which is cool in its own right.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 24, 2006)

S'mon said:
			
		

> I notice several suggestions above that in 'Western D&D' the 'other' be 'Native American' elves, rather than 'Redskin' orcs.  Be warned that this postmodernist 'Dances with Wolves' approach to the genre will actually take your game further away from the traditional Western than standard Gygaxian D&D.  If the natives are the good guys, doesn't that mean the settlers (humans, presumably) are the bad guys?
> 
> You can try to resolve this by having 'good native' elves vs 'bad native' orcs, but the natural logic of the colonisation setting would be for the orcs and elves to unite against the colonising humans!  So then either you run a game where PC elves and (half) orcs battle the genocidal human invaders, or the PCs are the Evil side, committing genocide against the innocent elves.




I think it would be far more interesting if it were less black-and-white than that. You can have evil, expansionist settlers, settlers just looking to survive and settlers sympathetic to the plight of the aboriginals. Similarly, you can have various aboriginal tribes have differing reactions to to the presence of the settlers. If D&D can regularly overlook the inherent nastiness that is medieval serfdom, it can manage this situation without dwelling on evil settlers vs noble aboriginals or vice versa.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 24, 2006)

Another thought for the magical firearms. If you want them to have the same impact on the setting that real-world six-guns and rifles had, you'll need to have them fairly available (not cheap necessarily, but available). I'd think they would also have to be useable by more than just magic-users. Running with idea posted above, you could have them dependant on some sort of crystal to power them. The crystals would be mined, thus making another valuable resource to use as a plot-point (actually back to the Bravestar reference, didn't they use crystals to power their laser guns and such?). Once mined and sold in uncut form (like diamonds), they would have to be crafted by a magic-user (or magewright or artificer if you want to bring those classes in) with craft wonderous item and some low-level spell of the appropriate energy type (magic missle for force, acid arrow for acid, etc). You could have them do different types of attack patterns too: pistols maybe just a ranged attack, rifles a ranged touch, shot guns (  ) a cone or maybe fan like burning hands. You could have the firearms hold charges and be rechargeable. Characters could carry multiple crystals and replace them when they "ran out of ammo" or even just wanted to do a different energy type of damage. 

You could also make a couple different PrCs for the setting based on the guns; a gunslinger class that has improved initiative, quick-draw and uncanny dodge as class features; a gunmage class for the magic-users that lets them apply meta-magic feats or somesuch to their attacks with their weapons  (even using reserve feats to give them knock-back effects and so forth). Maybe a feat or special type of the firearm item allows the warlock to apply their invocations to the weapon (or another Prc?). Honestly the ideas are endless in this setting...


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## Ogrork the Mighty (Dec 24, 2006)

Just make sure your players are on board though. For some people, nothing makes the eyes glaze over faster than Westerns.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 24, 2006)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 2) One of D&D's designer's PCs (Rary?  Whomever, I believe he was in the 1Ed Rogues Gallery product) from the days of 1Ed was dressed in Western garb and fired Magic Missiles from a pair of six-guns.  Without the guns, he couldn't fire the MM, and they couldn't fire real bullets, either.
> 
> Again, its some kind of gun.  As I recall, the mechanic of this PC made it function more like a Warlock's eldrich blasts, but with the limitation that the PC have a certain material component (the "shootin' irons).
> 
> This could be handled with a modified "Innate Spell" type feat that, because you have to have an "attuned magic item" to cast the spell, you don't have many level adjustments on the spell.  Psionics or Incarnum would probably work as well.





Myrilund (sp?)


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## Klaus (Dec 24, 2006)

Murlynd, of Murlynd's spoon fame. He was a Paladin gunslinger, to boot, and statted in the World of Greyhawk boxed set, having crossed over from the Boot Hill setting. Had a holy avenger, too.


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## Darth Shoju (Dec 24, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Murlynd, of Murlynd's spoon fame. He was a Paladin gunslinger, to boot, and statted in the World of Greyhawk boxed set, having crossed over from the Boot Hill setting. Had a holy avenger, too.




Ah that's right. Thanks man!

But that brings to mind another idea for this setting....a feat (or spell?) that lets the paladin deliver his Smite Evil attack with his firearm. Oooh and another that lets him align the blasts from it (although I guess align weapon would do that...)


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## S'mon (Dec 24, 2006)

Darth Shoju said:
			
		

> If D&D can regularly overlook the inherent nastiness that is medieval serfdom...




Well D&D overlooks the nastiness of medieval serfdom by using a setting that is only vaguely quasi-medieval, at best.  Indeed the 1e DMG has a section which explains that any PC ruler trying to force peasantry, serfdom or slavery on his people will inevitably face regular revolts!

I agree you can handwave it:  "These settlers aren't expansionist" is a self-contradiction, but I expect most players will be willing to suspend disbelief


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## Cthulhudrew (Dec 24, 2006)

S'mon said:
			
		

> If the natives are the good guys, doesn't that mean the settlers (humans, presumably) are the bad guys?




No more than they were in the real Wild West, no. If you're going for the West as portrayed in early Western movies and in many early histories of the USA, then you're right. It all depends on whether your want to go for realism or escapism, I guess.

(Which isn't to say that- suggestions aside- the elves as Native Americans should be all well adjusted, happy go-lucky, uber-civilized and peaceful tree huggers. They should have their conflicts and gray areas as well, frankly.)


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## carpedavid (Dec 24, 2006)

technowraith, send me an email, and I'll send you a comp. copy of Diamond Gulch - which is a wild west d20 adventure.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 24, 2006)

1)Thanks for the correction on the Rary/Murlynd confusion!

2) Another idea from Harry Turtledove: at one point in the series, a certain military force enters another country with an eye towards using it as a strategic base, only to find that the Gods of that area inhibit their magics, rendering them impotent.

In a campaign like this, that concept could be applied to the concept of "Sacred Ground.  The gods of the region would consecrate a place so that no magic and no tech beyond muscle-powered weapons (IOW, the PHB equipment list) function.

3)


> I notice several suggestions above that in 'Western D&D' the 'other' be 'Native American' elves, rather than 'Redskin' orcs. Be warned that this postmodernist 'Dances with Wolves' approach to the genre will actually take your game further away from the traditional Western than standard Gygaxian D&D. If the natives are the good guys, doesn't that mean the settlers (humans, presumably) are the bad guys?




Well, in a real sense, the settlers _were _bad guys...but no more bad than the tribes that warred between themselves.  They just had better tech.

But I understand what you mean- the traditional Western was written for Europeans/Americans by Europeans/Americans, with the whole "Manifest Destiny" thing taken as given.  Those that dealt with the conflict betweens settlers and Native Americans did so almost exclusively from the pro-settler viewpoint.

OTOH, FRPGs consistently gloss over the ramifications of the feudal political system, including how few people actually carried anything better than (in D&D terms) Simple weapons _by law_, or the number of female adventurers, so such a revision is not completely without precedence.


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## Remathilis (Dec 24, 2006)

Of course, you COULD have both "noble savage" elves and "redskin" orcs, just as different tribes warred out in the West, orcs and elves could have long been mortal enemies and when the expansionist races came, elves loosely allied with them and orcs fought them tooth and nail. 

I'd keep the firearms from the DMG, they are really no different than bows or crossbows unless you want to simulate the "firearm advantage".


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 24, 2006)

I can't believe I didn't suggest this earlier:

The nearly ideal plains-dwelling Native Americans for a setting like this would be...Centaurs!

I also think that Fey races should play a bigger role in a campaign like this.

Another race that would work as a sub for Native Americans would be Eberron Shifters.  That way, the character's totem animal would actually be mechanically represented in the PC's powers.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 24, 2006)

It occurs to me that some of the D&D classes wouldn't neccessarily work well for Native American PCs.

You might want to check out the _Kingdom of Kalamar's_ Shaman class.  IMHO, it would work a lot better for Native American priesthoods than the Druid or most Cleric builds.  Another option in that regard would be the _AU/AE_ Greenbond- all you'd need to convert it is develop a spell-list, and you could just use the Druid's spell list for that.

Another "I can't believe this didn't come up earlier" moment- You REALLY should check out Atlas Games' _Northern Crown_, which is set in a _just_ post-Colonial America type era.  Thus, it has a lot of info on cultures and classes that might work for running Native American PCs.

Of course, there are also Totemic Warrior archetypes that you may find useful in _Unearthed Arcana_,_ AU/AE_, and probably countless other D20 products.


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## tecnowraith (Dec 25, 2006)

To reply on the PC races, I want try to stay within general D&D, no specific campaign races like FR or Eberron, to begin with. Like races from PBH, Races series and MM.


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## carpedavid (Dec 25, 2006)

technowraith - email sent. Let me know if you don't get it.

Dave


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## tecnowraith (Dec 25, 2006)

Thanks Dave, I got it. Some on another board suggested Vermin mounts from Arms and Equipment Guide which I might do just because it fits in an odd way. Centaurs would be cool if they have no LA to them which I do not like to play LA creatures. If there were some other +o Centauroid creatures out there then maybe yes.

There is the Spirit Shaman class from Complete Divine which fit pretty but I mix that and the Druid together have both wildshaping and spirit channeling into one class. Or I might do an alternative class feature or something.


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## Satori (Dec 25, 2006)

I just had a cool idea.

Pick up a copy of Oriental Adventures, and change the name of "Iaijutsu Focus" to "Quick Draw".

Now you can have mythical Quick Draw battles where a single bullet kills the BBEG in a cinematic duel!

---

On a similar vein, you could use Samurai as the standard "Gunslinger", and replace Ancestral Daisho with Ancestral Irons.  

You could also have spellcasting Gunslingers as several mentioned above, but keep these in addition to your standard "Lead Bullet" Gunslingers.  This could create various groups that have unique methods of gun use, from the traditional "Honesty is Hot Lead" type of Warrior Gunslingers to the arcane Spellslingers that hurl bolts of eldritch might through their mystical shooting irons.

This sounds like great fun!


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## Darklone (Dec 25, 2006)

Satori said:
			
		

> I just had a cool idea.
> 
> Pick up a copy of Oriental Adventures, and change the name of "Iaijutsu Focus" to "Quick Draw".
> 
> ...



You beat me to it. That's kinda how I use it. Most Quickdraw "Gunslingers" though use throwing axes in hip holsters (Reminds someone of that awful funny fantasy movie with Jack Palance? Hawk?). Add a feat that gives you +1d6 sneak attack damage ... or a special houserule that everyone who catches someone flatfooted gains +1d6 damage (I've never understood why a barbarian with a greataxe bashing someone from behind who didn't notice him didn't get some kind of extra damage)...

The First Strike feats from AU work nice in that regard.


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## Klaus (Dec 25, 2006)

In a duel, what you want is rogue levels and Massive Damage a lower Massive Damage Threshold.

After all, it boils down to rolling initiative and going before your flat-footed foe. Being flat-footed, you get sneak attack damage. So your single bullet is dealing 2d6+5d6 damage...


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## tecnowraith (Dec 25, 2006)

Ok for the old west cultures, I like to start with core races first than see which other D&D creatures would fit later on. I know i do not want to use gunpowder or bullets but use magic in some way to replace them.


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## Toben the Many (Dec 26, 2006)

Actually, I'm in the middle of designing a D&D campaign world with a Wild West feel myself.   

IMC, what I did to establish a Wild West feel was to first lay down the foundation. The Wild West has to be on a frontier somewhere. It has to be a good distance from civilized society, or the "wild" part goes away.

My campaign is set on a new continent that has been recently discovered. The controlling "civilized" society is overseas, and tries to extert power on the colonies to get resources from the new continent. 

Because resources are scarce, so is the law. One law man has to cover a very large territory, making outlaws common. Heck, many come from the civilized lands just to escape justice.

Wizards in my world are quite rare, because most wizards in my world need alot of formal education. Instead, sorcerers are the norm. Wizards, when they show up, tend to be "citified", though there are a few hedge wizards here and there. This keeps the campaign feeling raw and untamed. There aren't a lot of wizard libraries around. There's not a lot of formal education. It's mostly one-room school houses. 

I didn't like the idea of guns and gunpower in my campaign either. If I was going to have guns and magic, why not just play Deadlands?

Instead, I kept the main weapon the sword. By keeping the weapon of choice a sword, I keep the campaign feeling like D&D. To get the idea of a Wild West fighter, though, I used the iajitsu rules from Oriental Adventures. So, when fighters duel, they typically call each other out on the street. There's a long stare down. Then, they quickdraw their blade and try to strike each other down, iajitsu style. After all, spaghetti westerns are based on old samurai movies, right?

Also, I've made my campaign set in a very hot climate, so almost no one wears heavy armor. Most people wear leather or hide. A chain shirt is the most armor most anyone will dare to wear. This helps keep the Wild West feel. 

For religions, I have a number of "mercenary gods", all of these gods are worshipped by pilgrims and religious types who have been kicked out of their countries. The most dominant god that is worshipped is a god named Jericho, who is very much a fire and brimstone deity. His preachers constantly stand in the streets and rave about how damnation and hellfire are near; and how everyone must repent. Very much a Deadlands approach to religion.

For the natives, I have a variety of lizardmen who fit the bill for me. There are several tribes of lizardmen in different shapes and sizes. I borrowed the Gator Men from the Iron Kingdoms for one of my tribes. 

This is a cool thread. Keep it up!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 26, 2006)

> Wizards in my world are quite rare, because most wizards in my world need alot of formal education. Instead, sorcerers are the norm. Wizards, when they show up, tend to be "citified", though there are a few hedge wizards here and there. This keeps the campaign feeling raw and untamed. There aren't a lot of wizard libraries around. There's not a lot of formal education. It's mostly one-room school houses.




That's pretty well thought out.  Good job!


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## Darklone (Dec 26, 2006)

Toben the Many said:
			
		

> Actually, I'm in the middle of designing a D&D campaign world with a Wild West feel myself.
> ...
> I didn't like the idea of guns and gunpower in my campaign either. If I was going to have guns and magic, why not just play Deadlands?
> 
> Instead, I kept the main weapon the sword. ...



I like that. That's how I'd like to do it myself, and why I do my quickdraw duels with throwing weapons. Guns do exist, but they are rare and expensive.


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## Shades of Green (Dec 26, 2006)

Darth Shoju said:
			
		

> I think it would be far more interesting if it were less black-and-white than that. You can have evil, expansionist settlers, settlers just looking to survive and settlers sympathetic to the plight of the aboriginals. Similarly, you can have various aboriginal tribes have differing reactions to to the presence of the settlers. If D&D can regularly overlook the inherent nastiness that is medieval serfdom, it can manage this situation without dwelling on evil settlers vs noble aboriginals or vice versa.



I agree with this approach - civilizations and cultures are complex things, and have many internal divisions and conflicts of interest. The Celirans of Southern Renya (a colonial culture) had a semi-feudal culture prior to the arrival of Argexian (Humans and Dwarves) colonists and conquerors; the Celiran Merchant Houses who ruled pre-colonial Renya were as bad (or worse) as the later Argexian colonial rule - Celiran overlords opressing Celiran peasant masses. The Argexan colonial rule is very exploitative, fueled by the ever-increasing thirst of the developing Argexian industry (steampunk-era) for coal, iron, new markets and cheap labor force (four things that are found in Renya in massive amounts), but many Argexian settlers are simple homesteaders who've moved to the Renyan wilderness in order to escape the ever-present poverty, pollution and overcrowding of the larger cities of Argexia. Alot of convicts (some of them political, some of them criminals) were exiled from Argexia to Renya, to serve as a skilled labour force for the South Renya Company (the biggest Argexian colonial charter). And last but not least, the Celiran One Mother religion has some sects who are rabidly opposed to the Argexian colonization - but they dislike the Celiran Merchant houses as well, and wage a guerilla struggle from the swamps against both; some of the more fanatic sects are pretty bloody in their methods, while others aren't. So you have alot of conflicting interests: small farmers (both Argexian and Celiran) vs. rich latifundists (both Argexian and Celiran), industrial workers vs. exploitative bosses, Celiran nationalists vs. Argexians, Celiran nationalists vs. Celirans who embrace Argexian cultural values, One Mother fanatics against each other (sectarianism abounds), against Argexian industry, against secular Celirans, and against believers of other faithes, farmers vs. industrialists, and so on. Potential for adventures and for flavour abounds...


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## Toben the Many (Dec 27, 2006)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> Ok for the old west cultures, I like to start with core races first than see which other D&D creatures would fit later on. I know i do not want to use gunpowder or bullets but use magic in some way to replace them.



As far as core races, in my campaign, I made it very human centric. Mainly because when I think of the Wild West, I think of humans. It's hard to picture your classic elf or dwarf in that setting. 

I could definately see the elves as a native race. However, in my setting, I made lizardmen the native races, with lots of different tribes. So I had that covered. So in my world, I got rid of elves entirely. 

I kept gnomes, so that if someone wanted to become a steam-punk inventor, there would be an outlet for that.

I also took out halflings, because 3.5 halflings are opportunistic nomads. By all rights, they would be taking over the place, and be one step ahead of the human settlers. I didn't want that, I wanted the people on the frontier to be human. So halflings had to go to.

I added an undead race. Basically, if you want to be something like an harrowed from Deadlands, or the guy from the Darkwatch video game, there's an outlet for you to do that. 

I want to keep dwarves. I have them working most of the mines in the colonies, shipping materials back to the ruling country. I'm not sure how I'm going to flavor them, though. I'd like to make dwarves a bit different somehow.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 27, 2006)

One of the big dynamics in the Wild West were the Range Wars between Ranchers who wanted open land to graze cattle, and the Sheep farmers who needed to fence in land for _their_ herds.

In a FRPG Western setting, you could have Minotaur "Cattle Barons" and Ibixian "Sheep" farmers?  

And while I still think that Centaurs would make for a cool Plains Indian substitute, so would the Equicephs.


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## entonfire (Dec 27, 2006)

I, too, have been working on my own Wild West D&D Setting: Frontiers.  I've been shaping it so long it's not really D&D anymore, and I'm eventually going to self-publish as a d20 variant.

The West is in a New World across an ocean from the Old.  The drive for settling the frontier comes from the recent collapse of an empire in the Old World.  Elves and orcs are natives, and elves are technically the "good" locals, but the Empire used them to fight the orcs and then double-crossed them for their land, a feat that failed to endear them to foreign settlers.  Dwarves are communist deep-dwellers.  Gnomes are Amish shore-dwellers.  All the samurai are halflings, and the guns are all...  well, they're just guns.

Don't forget the East while you're busy shaping the West.  A lot of the flavor of the people carving their way through the frontier is found in their backgrounds and where they came from.


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## Wik (Dec 27, 2006)

Okay, I haven't read the whole thread... just the first half of the first page... but here's a random thought, and sorry if it hasn't already been metioned:

Old Kurasawa films.. you know, the Samurai films?  They had a Wild West overtone to 'em.  Samurai would face off, and the camera would zoom in on their eyes.  Then, they'd draw their blades, and only one would be standing at the end.  

Just my two cents.


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## Klaus (Dec 27, 2006)

Wik said:
			
		

> Okay, I haven't read the whole thread... just the first half of the first page... but here's a random thought, and sorry if it hasn't already been metioned:
> 
> Old Kurasawa films.. you know, the Samurai films?  They had a Wild West overtone to 'em.  Samurai would face off, and the camera would zoom in on their eyes.  Then, they'd draw their blades, and only one would be standing at the end.
> 
> Just my two cents.



 Os course, it's no coincidence that Kurosawa's "The Seven Samurai" was later turned into "The Magnificent Seven".


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## tecnowraith (Dec 27, 2006)

Oh I have an interesting thought, using the planes as the frontier setting, could be done in a very cool way. The question is which would be a +0 LA race that be would indigenous to the planes besides the psionic races for native americans


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## Cthulhudrew (Dec 27, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Os course, it's no coincidence that Kurosawa's "The Seven Samurai" was later turned into "The Magnificent Seven".




Or Yojimbo into "A Fistful of Dollars."

Then again, Kurosawa's "Ran" was based on Shakespeare's "King Lear", which is a nice way of showing how human dramatic themes run across cultures.


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## Darklone (Dec 27, 2006)

Speaking of which, was Ran the movie with the three-man-sword in the big battle? Or how's the name of that movie?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 28, 2006)

> Oh I have an interesting thought, using the planes as the frontier setting, could be done in a very cool way. The question is which would be a +0 LA race that be would indigenous to the planes besides the psionic races for native americans




Well, there is that new race from Complete Psionic (I don't recall its name).  I believe they are +0LA.


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## tecnowraith (Dec 29, 2006)

What would be a good religious or spiritual item from a D&D monster to be used in the same manner as an eagle feather for native americans? Like making head-dresses, and using them as fetishes.


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## carpedavid (Dec 29, 2006)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> What would be a good religious or spiritual item from a D&D monster to be used in the same manner as an eagle feather for native americans?




Velociraptor talon.


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## Klaus (Dec 29, 2006)

Roc feather? Griffon feather? Hippogriff feather? Giant Eagle feather? Couatl feather? Avoral feather?


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## tecnowraith (Dec 29, 2006)

Sorry I meant to add besides using a feather. If it's possible.


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## Klaus (Dec 29, 2006)

Displacer Beast claw, Gorgon plate, lock of Unicorn mane, Chimera horn...


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## Silver Moon (Dec 29, 2006)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> I am about to design a world where it is a typical D&D but with a twist. I want to add the themes of the wild west like societies, culture and profession to a typical D&D fantasy world, examples would be half-orc cowboys or eleven spirit warriors (these might change). I do not want anything too cliche with mixing of themes. Think how Eberron has a pulp style where my world Wild West style to a D&D fantasy world.



I've been running this campaign since 2003!    I have five threads over in the "Story Hour" forum with this campaign.   I've been using D&D/Boot Hill hybrid rules for all of these.

Check out the threads  "Revenge, Renewal and the Promise of a New Year", "Wizards Whiskey and Wonderful Things", "Here there be Vampire" and "Ballots and Bullets"  for the very successful Play-by-Post game.   

Essentially I'm using D&D rules except for firearms combats which use two of the Boot Hill tables for hit location and wound severity.    The world has D&D pantheons and religions rather than Judeo/Christian and so instead of the Protestant Reformation in the 15th century Europe split over Clerical vs. Wizard magics.

As for races High Elves = American Indians except for Centaurs which are also American Indians, Wood Elves = Central and South American Indians, former slaves from Africa are Ogres, Chinese are Orcs. 

I've stuck to actual history rather closely but have made some tweeks to account for magic.   It's generally a low-magic world.


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## Cthulhudrew (Dec 29, 2006)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> As for races High Elves = American Indians except for Centaurs which are also American Indians, Wood Elves = Central and South American Indians, former slaves from Africa are Ogres, Chinese are Orcs.




I like a lot of these, though I would think Wood Elves would be a better fit for Eastern Woodlands Native Americans, Gray Elves for Central Americans, and High Elves for Great Basin/Plains Native Americans.

Plus I'd have Centaurs as Mongols (and I've long wondered why TSR didn't go that route for the Hordelands rather than just a direct Mongol/Horde conception). Especially because there were no horses in the New World before Europeans arrived (though I can see the argument for having them- or an analogue- since horse-riding plainsmen have become such a cultural icon for that era.)


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## Silver Moon (Dec 29, 2006)

I had a bias in that I owned a set of Native American Elf miniatures and Native American Centaur miniatures so built that aspect of the campaign around it.  I also had miniatures of orcs wearing oriental armor.


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## tecnowraith (Jan 3, 2007)

I have question, are Dragonne part of the dragon species or are they something else?


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## HeavenShallBurn (Jan 3, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> I have question, are Dragonne part of the dragon species or are they something else?




They're a magical beast check here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonne.htm


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## tecnowraith (Jan 3, 2007)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> They're a magical beast check here http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/dragonne.htm




Yeah, but sometime they would still be part of the species or have subtype sometimes. Looking for official info.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Jan 3, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> Yeah, but sometime they would still be part of the species or have subtype sometimes.




Sounds fine if that's what you want to do.  I generally don't include them among dragons, basically I describe them as big flying lions with scaly patches to distinguish them from the Lesser and True Dragons.  The sort of thing a mage's botched experiments a few centuries ago released into the area.


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## tecnowraith (Jan 6, 2007)

Ok guys Im back after research and planning and I came up with something odd, but interesting. I have been thinking about what to do with the railroads and the locomotives and did not want to repeat others and the weird thing I thought of was what if I made/use the locomotives as constructs; instead steam, elementals or magical stones? I'm still working on the idea but its different and unique.


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## ssampier (Jan 6, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> Ok guys Im back after research and planning and I came up with something odd, but interesting. I have been thinking about what to do with the railroads and the locomotives and did not want to repeat others and the weird thing I thought of was what if I made/use the *locomotives as constructs*; instead steam, elementals or magical stones? I'm still working on the idea but its different and unique.




Interesting. Aren't lightening rails in Eberron powered by elementals? Other than that, I can think of clanks from Joshua Dyal "dark*heritage". 

http://www.wowway.com/~jdyal/dh/day2half.htm


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 6, 2007)

Actually, I like the idea of locomotives as contstructs.


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## Klaus (Jan 6, 2007)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Actually, I like the idea of locomotives as contstructs.



 Specially if they transform into Huge iron golems.


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## Silver Moon (Jan 6, 2007)

From my initial post regading the Campaign:

The town where the story takes place was taken almost verbatim from TSR's original Boot Hill Module BH3 "Ballots and Bullets" by David James Ritchie). 

The AD&D variations to the world are outlined as follows:

Background:

The game setting on this Alternate Earth will be southern Arizona in 1881, however this world has some very distinct differences from own Earth history, as this world has all of the standard AD&D humanoid races on it, spellcasting, and the polytheistic religions of an AD&D world rather than Earth’s Judeo-Christian background. Note, although this world his inhabited by the AD&D humanoid races (& centaurs), other mythical animals such as dragons and pegasi are only things of superstition. 

Essentially, the different races of this world evolved as follows:

Central & Southern Europe – The lands are primarily Human, whose culture paralleled our own European history. Rather than the Protestant Reformation, this Europe had a similar bloody cultural conflict in the 14th to 16th Centuries, but it was based on Clerical vs. Magic-User magic. World exploration began during this time with a goal of either conquering new lands to spread their doctrine (The pro-mage countries of Spain, Portugal and France), or fleeing persecution (The pro-cleric countries of Great Britain, Italy, Greece, Germany and western Russia. Great Britain, Ireland and Scotland, follow the Celtic Pantheon. Italy and Greece follow the Greek Pantheon. Germany and western Russia primarily follow the Norse Pantheon). 

Northern Europe – Scandinavia and Iceland were settled by Dwarves. They were this world’s Vikings, and conducted raids in the 10th to 12th century along north coastal Europe. While Germany and western Russia are still primarily human, they also have dwarvan populations who have greatly influenced these societies, including adopting the Dwarves’ Norse Pantheon as their deities. The Dwarves were the first explorers to the “New World”, establishing fortresses and colonies in Greenland and the Canadian Maritime provinces as early as the 12th century. The California Gold Rush of 1849 brought many dwarven miners down from Canada to prospect for gold. 

North America – The native population are High Elves. Their culture resembles that of Native Americans. The only non-elvan race native to the continent is centaurs, whose culture is also similar to Native Americans. Their first encounter with other races was with the Dwarves, who built forts and small towns along the great rivers and lakes of North America, and traded with the Elves, but never sought to establish large colonies or farm the land. The Humans, however, arrived in the 17th century and have been pushing the elves further westward and onto the worst lands. There are a number of different tribes, but they can essentially be broken down into two main factions:

Pacifists: Elves who have taken the approach that these short-lived humans are not threats, so to just try to live with them. Many of these tribes have also taken in human Celts, whose druidic lifestyles were compatible with the Native American Pantheon. The small number of half-elves would be the result from of a union of these two groups. 

Warriors: Elves who have finally gotten fed up with being pushed around and driven off their lands. These elves have been using guerilla tactics against the cowboys and ranchers. The United States Army has recently sent in cavalry units to deal with these elves. 

South and Central America – The native population are Wood Elves. The pro-magic nations of Spain, Portugal and France have conquered these lands, and treat the native population as little more than slaves. Primarily Wood Elves and some Spaniards populate the politically disorganized land of Mexico. 

Africa – This continent is the homeland to the Ogre, Gnoll and Hobgoblin races. During the 17th to 19th centuries, European humans captured Ogres from West Africa, bringing them to Europe and the Americas as slaves. During the years 1861 to 1864 the U.S. Civil War was fought to free the slaves. During the war several Union Army Battalions were formed with Ogre and Half-ogre troops. Many of these units still exist, and are with the Army out west dealing with the warrior Elvan issue. 

Northern Asia – This is the land of Orcs and Half-orcs. This world’s Ghengas Khan was an orc. His army invaded Europe during the middle ages, bringing back tens of thousands of human women and children. The section of land comprised of central and eastern Russia, Mongolia, China and Korea are currently populated primarily by half-orcs and orcs. During the 19th century large numbers of these immigrated to California, and much of the railroad construction is being done with oriental orc and half-orc laborers. 

Southern Asia – The lands from the middle east to the south pacific are home to the Goblin and Kobold races. Few of these humanoids have left their native lands. The Goblins of India are part of the British Empire, but are currently resisting their rule. 

Pacific Ocean – The native populations of these islands are easy-going Gnomes. These gnomish lands have all been claimed by the European Humans, who the gnomes now work for. 

Australia – The native populations of Australia are Halflings. Australia is part of the British Empire, which the astute Halflings have readily accepted, enjoying the benefits of being citizens of the Empire. Many Halflings have traveled abroad as British subjects, looking for commercial opportunities. 

Antarctica – The southern continent is populated by Giants and Bugbears. They have only recently had encounters with the outside world, with human whaling ships now visiting their lands. 



Promise City, Arizona: The town where the story takes place is populated primarily by humans, in all of the traditional western roles (gunslingers, cowboys, ranchers, farmers, saloongirls, wealthy Easterners, etc.). Also in town you will find a few pacifist elves or half-elves, a couple of ogre or half-ogre laborers, and a few opportunistic halflings. The silver mines have a few dwarven prospectors. The nearby railroad line is under construction by half-orc and ogre laborers. High elf tribes of both factions are in the area, and wood elves are not far to the south. Because of the warrior elves the U.S. Army is also not far away, with both humans and ogre soldiers.


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## tecnowraith (Jan 7, 2007)

Ok I had a brainstorm and I seeing this might work. The idea I am having now is making playable dragon-like races or humanoid dragons be my native Americans (as in the mexicans and indians) in this world. Several people here had ideas using elves, centaurs or lizardfolks as native american indians but as I read into more of the old west history; mexicans, indians and other indegious people were related in some-way and I wanted to the same connection in my world with a D&D race/creature and I wanted Dragons in this world, but I could not find a way to bring Dragons in yet until now. So now I have to find good playable humanoid dragon race(s) to be the core race(s) as the indegious people.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jan 7, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> ... what if I made/use the locomotives as constructs; instead steam, elementals or magical stones? I'm still working on the idea but its different and unique.




I like that idea- it sounds workable. You might want to look at the Juggernaut for some ideas of how to implement it. It would give a whole new dimension to the tale of John Henry.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 8, 2007)

On dragons in your "Wild West" campaign:

I'd take a position similar to some of the movies like the dinosaurs in "The Valley of Gwangi" or "Q"...or the Kurt R.A. Giambastiani "Cloudfall" books...but making them extremely rare, possibly not even intelligent.

Or perhaps I'd borrow a page from Shadowrun and Dark Sun and use them full force, but keep them rare.  Individual ones could be responsible for legends like Quezecoatl, Thunderbirds, or even the Roc and the Pheonix.

Perhaps they would even be worshiped as gods...


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## Frostmarrow (Jan 8, 2007)

I would simply add gunsmiths to the setting and let them get on with their job of making sixshooters and rifles. It's the only way to be sure of a western feel. Gunmetal, powder, and lead - accept no substitute.


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## arscott (Jan 8, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> The thing I am working on now are the playable races and which wild west culture would fit them more. I do not want to repeat the other campaigns like Eberron, FR or Iron Kingdoms. The cultures (or ethnic groups) that were popular in the west were Indians, Chinese, Mexicans, Spanish and European-American.




Humans are the obvious fit for the Europeans who've been here for a while.

Rural elves and aristocratic elves have been done to death.  So why not make elves an analog to the more recent European Immigrants--Poor, Urban, and more than a little bit dissatisfied.

I think Dwarves are sort of a natural fit for the Chinese, stoically digging railroad tunnels through the high mountains.

Mexicans are basically mixed blood europeans and native american--If you're using your draconic race for natives, then a half-draconic would be appropriate.

Monstrous races make poor analogues to real-world races for a variety of reasons, so its probably wisest to just leave orcs out of the scheme and come up with some other excuse for their presence.

That leaves halflings as an analogue for Africans, and in a way it fits--Halflings seem the likeliest target for slavers.

Gnomes could swap for something really exotic, like middle-easterners or Indians-from-India.

Final note:  If you really want a western feel, you'll want to really emphasize ranged combat at the expense of melee, and that means guns.  Crossbows just don't pack enough of a punch to be a suitable replacement from a mechanical standpoint.  Plus, I think the closer you get to real-world weapons, the closer you'll get to the western feel.

Try these stats:

[SBLOCK]Pocket Pistol:
2d4 damage, x2 crit, 40 ft. range, size small, magazine 6

Six-shooter:
2d6 damage, x2 crit, 40 ft. range, size medium, magazine 6

Heavy Pistol:
2d8 damage, x2 crit, 20 ft. range, size medium, magazine 4

Rifle:
2d10 damage, x2 crit, 100 ft. range, size large, magazine 15

Game Rifle:
2d12 damage, x2 crit, 180 ft. range, size large, magazine 1[/SBLOCK]


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## Modoc (Jan 8, 2007)

I didn't see it posted anywher else in this thread. If you have access to Ptolus: Monte Cook's City by the Spire he has incorporated pistols, rifles and the other useful weapons. Have a look at the technology chapler, he lists costs, full stats, descriptions, etc. Very useful information.


Modoc


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## tecnowraith (Jan 13, 2007)

Modoc said:
			
		

> I didn't see it posted anywher else in this thread. If you have access to Ptolus: Monte Cook's City by the Spire he has incorporated pistols, rifles and the other useful weapons. Have a look at the technology chapler, he lists costs, full stats, descriptions, etc. Very useful information.
> 
> 
> Modoc




Yeah, after doing some online research about this, I found out that the firearms are from Chaositech book that I own.


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## tecnowraith (Jan 13, 2007)

Ok After re-reading Chaositech (and I'm glad I got the book) and the equipment chapters I am seriously thinking of adding the rules for the firearms for the setting. I like what Monte said about Chaositech in which he describes in the introduction pseudoscience, the "fantasy science" apposed to science fantasy.


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## ssampier (Jan 14, 2007)

Sounds great. I prefer a Star Wars style western myself, but that works, too.



			
				Klaus said:
			
		

> Specially if they transform into Huge iron golems.




Transformers,
More than meets the eye!


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## Wraith Form (Jan 15, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> Ok After re-reading Chaositech (and I'm glad I got the book) and the equipment chapters I am seriously thinking of adding the rules for the firearms for the setting. I like what Monte said about Chaositech in which he describes in the introduction pseudoscience, the "fantasy science" apposed to science fantasy.



Chaositech r000lz, y0.


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## Herobizkit (Jan 15, 2007)

Wraith Form said:
			
		

> Chaositech r000lz, y0.



I have to third this assessment.  I ran a "New World" kind of campaign composed entirely of an island archipelago where one of the main antagonist races wielded chaositech.  Added a very Final Fantasy feel to my game, which is exactly what I wanted.

Plus it's written by Monte Cook, with who I seem to share some kind of mental symbiosis...


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## tecnowraith (Jan 15, 2007)

Update: Ok as of now i am trying rework my native Indian race and the train system. the Train system I want to have is to use a different track system besides flying, standard tracks, crystals or something that have been done a lot. For the native Indians, I am wanting to use a humanoid dragon but finding one "official" is hard without going beyond +0 LA.


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## Klaus (Jan 15, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> Update: Ok as of now i am trying rework my native Indian race and the train system. the Train system I want to have is to use a different track system besides flying, standard tracks, crystals or something that have been done a lot. For the native Indians, I am wanting to use a humanoid dragon but finding one "official" is hard without going beyond +0 LA.



 Kobolds.


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## tecnowraith (Jan 15, 2007)

I am wanting medium sized humanoid dragons though.


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## Kunimatyu (Jan 15, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> Update: Ok as of now i am trying rework my native Indian race and the train system. the Train system I want to have is to use a different track system besides flying, standard tracks, crystals or something that have been done a lot. For the native Indians, I am wanting to use a humanoid dragon but finding one "official" is hard without going beyond +0 LA.




Modified Dragonborn or Spellscales from Races of the Dragon.


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## Raven Crowking (Jan 15, 2007)

Why not actually set it in a faux real-world west (something I've considered!)?

(1)  Lots of cool maps already done for the taking.

(2)  The Grand Canyon contains a (much) larger version of the caves in The Keep on the Borderlands.

(3)  Dwarves in the Appalachians ala Rip Van Winkle; others come west to the Rockies and to work on the railroad.

(4)  Working on the railroad opens up the door for Oriental Adventures characters and creatures.

(5)  Fewer elves than standard, but the ones that are there are friendly to the Native Americans and love the giant redwoods.


That's what I'd do, anyway!


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## Klaus (Jan 15, 2007)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> I am wanting medium sized humanoid dragons though.



 Medium Kobolds?


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## True_Blue (Jan 15, 2007)

In the Bestiary for Dragonlance made by Sovereign Press, there is a medium centaur that was made for people who wanted to play a centaur without all the HD and LA.  I think it is a LA +1 if anyone is interested.

I've definetely had a few PC's who have used it.


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## tecnowraith (Jan 21, 2007)

ok I have a new idea here and I thought about for awhile so bare with me. The idea is having goblins be the Native Indians and each goblinoid will be settled in certain environments and the main culture will worship dragons using dragon-crafted items blessed by the dragons. You know how Native Indians uses remains of animals, mostly buffalo, for clothes, homes, tools and food? I doing the samething but using dragons and draconic beasts instead.


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## Klaus (Jan 21, 2007)

So basically, the Seren barbarians from Eberron.


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## Klaus (Jan 26, 2007)

Bump!

Image Comics has a new series coming out titled "Texas Strangers", which they describe as Six-Shooters & Sorcery.

Details here: http://forum.newsarama.com/showthread.php?t=98914


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## Aaron L (Jan 26, 2007)

I've always seen adventurers as being very much like cowboys of movie Westerns.


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