# Thread Category & Prefix System



## Michael Morris (Feb 24, 2005)

Well, after a 4 hour install, ENWorld's newest major feature is up and running - Thread Categories.

At a glance this is like the post icons no one used except they aren't pictures.  They are also REQUIRED on all posts.

If you look at the bottom of a forum display you will see a select box with every category for that forum.  You can select a category and view only threads that have that category.  Community Supporters can go a step further and search for threads with a given category regardless of which forum they belong to.

The purpose of this hack is to help folks find topics that interest them quickly, especially in the busier forums like General.  While it is possible to assign a thread to the general prefix, please do not do so unless no other prefix is appropriate.

Using incorrect thread prefixes will be frowned on just as posting in the wrong forum is frowned upon.

In the coming days the moderation team will be tinkering with the thread prefixes. Each forum can have it's own set, up to 30 (and that limit can be raised if necessary).  Finally, You are encouraged to go back over your recent threads and add a category. After all, the more threads that have a thread prefix, the more useful the category based search becomes.


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## Hand of Evil (Feb 24, 2005)

Can they be moved to after the thread title?


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## Greylock (Feb 24, 2005)

This'll take getting used to. Good idea, although I wonder how useful it will be. 

Not sure if the titles should go after the thread title. Seems like some of the longer post titles might be shortened, though. Kinda scrunches things up as they are.


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## Berandor (Feb 24, 2005)

Cool thing!

But if they're mandatory, you should probably make an announcement everywhere, or better don't allow a thread to be opened without using a prefix.

Otherwise, it'll be posticons all over again


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## Darkness (Feb 24, 2005)

Berandor said:
			
		

> don't allow a thread to be opened without using a prefix.



Right, that's what he meant by 'Required.'  You can't start a thread without choosing a category.


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## Darkness (Feb 24, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> Seems like some of the longer post titles might be shortened, though. Kinda scrunches things up as they are.



 Yeah, I've been thinking about that as well. I'll see if I can shorten the longer ones. Not sure if all can be shortened easily, though.


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## Piratecat (Feb 24, 2005)

We may turn this off temporarily while we test and fine tune it. Don't be surprised if it disappears for a little while.


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## Berandor (Feb 24, 2005)

Darkness said:
			
		

> Right, that's what he meant by 'Required.'  You can't start a thread without choosing a category.



 I wanted to start a new thread, but had nothing to say. *shrug*

Thanks for the heads-up!


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## Darkness (Feb 24, 2005)

Berandor said:
			
		

> I wanted to start a new thread, but had nothing to say. *shrug*
> 
> Thanks for the heads-up!



 It worked when I tested it in Meta, at least.


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## Gez (Feb 24, 2005)

OK. The three differences with posticons is that they are:

Sortable
Required
Ugly

Right? Can't they just become posticons again, except sortable and required? That way, they'll be pretty and have a uniform size. Right now, they mess with the column size something bad.

I remember Mike made lots of pretty posticons, I suppose some of them could be salvaged and used for the categories. After all, all it requires is replacing the "General" category by the "<img src='path/general.png' alt='General' title='General'/>" category.


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## Piratecat (Feb 24, 2005)

We can do whatever formatting we want, Gez, but there's no point in doing so until we have finalized what the prefixes say. We're open for suggestions on how to improve utility.


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## MonsterMash (Feb 24, 2005)

I can see the value in most fora, especially general, but not so much in off-topic. Main concern is size and legibility - they need to be distinctive if you want to look for posts on a particular topic.

For general we could use things like - plot, campaign, poll, rant or should that be RANT!, conventions, help, and edition (OD&D, BD&D, 1e, 2e, 3e).

As I think of more I'll come back and edit the post.
MM


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## Len (Feb 24, 2005)

Gez said:
			
		

> OK. The three differences with posticons is that they are:
> 
> Sortable
> Required
> Ugly



4. You can't hide them with "Don't show Post Icons".


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## Darkness (Feb 24, 2005)

Len said:
			
		

> 4. You can't hide them with "Don't show Post Icons".



Yeah, might be good if you could, mandatory for threads or not.


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## IronWolf (Feb 24, 2005)

I don't know, looks a little cluttered to me.  But maybe I will get used to it.  ::shrug::  It might be nice if we could hide the category column if someone doesn't get used to it over time.


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## omokage (Feb 24, 2005)

I'd just like to say that as an avid user of the New Posts search, I've always been a fan of post icons, and I think that the categories do it just a bit better.

Post icons were a little easier to skim visually, but the image loading can be taxing on the server. The text-only is nice. Keep up the good work.


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## Michael Morris (Feb 24, 2005)

Len said:
			
		

> 4. You can't hide them with "Don't show Post Icons".




Not to crack down and be "All or nothing" here, but for this to be effective, it must be mandated.  Let it run for a month or so then go back and do searches based on the categories, or sort threads in a forum based on them.  Then the advantage should become clear.


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## buzz (Feb 24, 2005)

Great. Can we get a "Gameday" category, please?


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## buzz (Feb 25, 2005)

Simple color-coding (i.e., no patterns) would be cool, too.


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## Michael Morris (Feb 25, 2005)

buzz said:
			
		

> Great. Can we get a "Gameday" category, please?




I installed one in General and it should be there unless someone removed it.


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## Greylock (Feb 25, 2005)

Now that the better part of a day has passed, I can see how a busy page looks, all dolled up and ready to read anew.

Eeeep. Too much info per post. Really, way to much to process at my mental processing speed...

First to note, little blue worlds vs. little brown worlds. K. Then, little purple worlds vs. little red worlds. Got it. Kewl.  Blue worlds with big white arrows. That marks them personal priority, vs, the little white DM arrows, got it. Big white Star of the East marked worlds, something new to  read, as opposed to blue worlds or brown worlds,  or worlds starmarked with posts beyond one page marked in colors including both blue and yellow, much less the little blue-star marked worlds with 10pages.... posts,  then whatever you  get when you click is a mystery, unless the post has a locky icon, in which case, it's gonna be good, unless it's brown and not blue.

If I'm lucky, somewhere after that, my brain somehow parces info regarding thread title and author. I can personally state, unequivocably in  regards to my own taste, the posticon is not helpful, and is in fact an additional distraction and obstruction, when  determining which threads need my personal attention. Individual ones, special ones, tend to help call-out important posts. When every post has one, jeepers, I don't know where to start to read...


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## DanMcS (Feb 25, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Not to crack down and be "All or nothing" here, but for this to be effective, it must be mandated.  Let it run for a month or so then go back and do searches based on the categories, or sort threads in a forum based on them.  Then the advantage should become clear.




You can require them for posting, and still make them turn-offable for viewing.  Some people don't want the clutter on their screens since skim the threads by title.  That's valuable screen real-estate being wasted on a feature that we don't want.


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## Michael Morris (Feb 25, 2005)

That's also at least 2 hours of work.  Unless a huge outcry for this erupts I'm not going to do it - I have other things to do on the site like getting the reviews section done.


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## DethStryke (Feb 25, 2005)

The extra stuff will become background info after a short while. Let your brain become accustomed to them and they will fade just like Advertisements. Being from the "would like back plots and places" group, I am estatic that I can find plot/story type posts in the bulging mass that is the General Discussion without being lost. The idea of being able to do a search for JUST those threads throughout years of descussion makes me nearly shake with joy and anticipation. I'm so giddy about the prospect that I may break out in song and dance not unlike a strange, overweight and poorly trained musical.

Umm... yea.

I love them as they are. I'm a big fan of labelling things like this for easy reference and search capabilities. I also like the text tags instead of the graphics due to bandwidth considerations. Every little bit helps, imo. Even with caching it still hits the speed after so long. The only change I would consider is to make the font a bit smaller. Different colors would make them an eye sore though. I have 20/15 vision myself, and run in 1280x1024 which I can see clearly from more than 6 feet away. 6pt font is a valid choice for my eyes to read, so I probably don't have good information on what is too big or too small on the screen. 


Another fine feature implemented nicely. Bravo MM.


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## Jdvn1 (Feb 25, 2005)

For the LEW forums, these might be useful:
Proposal
Tavern
Adventure
Discussion


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## Berandor (Feb 25, 2005)

DanMcS said:
			
		

> You can require them for posting, and still make them turn-offable for viewing.  Some people don't want the clutter on their screens since skim the threads by title.  That's valuable screen real-estate being wasted on a feature that we don't want.



 I think before enabling turn-off, you should wait a month or so. Obviously, it's new and strange at the beginning, and a lot of people might turn them off without giving them a chance.


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## Psychic Warrior (Feb 25, 2005)

Berandor said:
			
		

> I think before enabling turn-off, you should wait a month or so. Obviously, it's new and strange at the beginning, and a lot of people might turn them off without giving them a chance.




Like post icons?  I can't see the difference.  I never found post icons useful.  I don't see why this would be any different.


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## Knight Otu (Feb 25, 2005)

If you're taking suggestions on categories, I'd like to submit these for consideration:

Creature Catalog - General Monster Talk

List   
Request   
Project   
General 
 Creature Catalog - Homebrews

<Creature Types>   
Swarm   
Request   
Compiled   
New Type 
 Living Enworld:

Adventure   
Announcement   
Archive   
Discussion   
Judge   
Proposal   
Record   
Tavern


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## Berandor (Feb 25, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> Like post icons?  I can't see the difference.  I never found post icons useful.  I don't see why this would be any different.



 Because people will be forced to use them? As opposed to posticons, which were sparingly emnployed at best.


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## Gez (Feb 25, 2005)

I suppose for the PBP and Story Hour forums, categories corresponding to style of play and campaign settings could be useful.

Like, "Grim & Gritty", "High Fantasy", "Pulp Fantasy", "Modern Occult", "Epic Saga", "Epic Level", etc. And the settings, FR, Eberron, GH, DL, PS, Diamond Throne, Scarred Lands, and so on.


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## Michael Morris (Feb 25, 2005)

Psychic Warrior said:
			
		

> Like post icons?  I can't see the difference.  I never found post icons useful.  I don't see why this would be any different.




Well, for starters, open your eyes and look at the bottom of the page in the display options.  There are controls there for sorting the threads, which now includes by category.  Thus in General you can select "plots" to see all the "plots" threads without having to sort through other, unrelated threads.

Now, if no one selects thread categories this feature is useless.  It has the potential though to be very powerful.  That is why I set category selection to MANDATORY.


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## Piratecat (Feb 25, 2005)

No need to be testy.


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## Michael Morris (Feb 25, 2005)

True. Sorry.


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## buzz (Feb 25, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Now, if no one selects thread categories this feature is useless.  It has the potential though to be very powerful.  That is why I set category selection to MANDATORY.



Just out of curiosity, was this a feature that was requested by the ENWorld community, or one that simply seemed like a cool thing to implement? Honest, I'm just curious, not criticizing. The sortability thing does seem like it could be helpful.


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## buzz (Feb 25, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> I installed one in General and it should be there unless someone removed it.



I'm not seeing a Gameday category in General, FYI.


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## Cyberzombie (Feb 25, 2005)

Thanks for putting in the Paid/Unpaid in Open Calls and Job Vacancies.  Why is there a General category there, though?  Just to fit with other forums' style?


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## Morrus (Feb 25, 2005)

Cyberzombie said:
			
		

> Thanks for putting in the Paid/Unpaid in Open Calls and Job Vacancies. Why is there a General category there, though? Just to fit with other forums' style?




It's a default global category.  Every forum has to have it.


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## Len (Feb 25, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Not to crack down and be "All or nothing" here, but for this to be effective, it must be mandated.  Let it run for a month or so then go back and do searches based on the categories, or sort threads in a forum based on them.  Then the advantage should become clear.



I think you misunderstood what I meant.

I'm not talking about making it optional to PUT a category on a thread when I create it - I'm perfectly willing to do that since it only takes a second and it helps other people. I'm talking about making it optional for me to SEE all the categories on the showthread page.

I never found the old post icons to be useful. I did give them a chance - I kept them around for quite a long time before I turned them off. The categories were just too broad. They didn't help me decide whether I wanted to read a thread, or help me find a particular topic. I always had to read the thread titles anyway, so (_to me_) the post icons / categories are just distracting and wasteful of space.


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## Cyberzombie (Feb 25, 2005)

Gotcha.  If I see someone posting a vague unpaid job using "General", though, I'm taking a claw hammer to them.


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## DanMcS (Feb 26, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> That's also at least 2 hours of work.  Unless a huge outcry for this erupts I'm not going to do it - I have other things to do on the site like getting the reviews section done.




Your standards for what to implement are hard for a user like me to fathom.  There was no huge outcry to implement the tags, but you implemented them.  Why, then, require a huge outcry to make them optional for viewing?

Heck, php isn't that hard, I'll volunteer to do it if that will take a load off of you.


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## Darkness (Feb 26, 2005)

DanMcS said:
			
		

> Your standards for what to implement are hard for a user like me to fathom.  There was no huge outcry to implement the tags, but you implemented them.



 Are you seriously wondering whether every change requires a huge outcry first?


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## Michael Morris (Feb 26, 2005)

<rant>If programmers and computer engineers waited for huge public outcries for change we'd still be using the IBM PC (y'know, the one with the 8 mhz 8088 processor).

I try to pay close attention to posting patterns and look for problems or ways that things could be done better.  While no one called for categories, many folks have called for more forums for "insert pet topic here."  However experience has taught the moderators that putting topics off in their own forum more often then not kills them.  Hence the search for a subtopic system.

As to setting up a toggle - I honestly think some of you are getting spoiled.  If I wanted to drive myself nuts it is possible to create a toggle for every conceivable element of the interface, and I guarantee that at least someone here would still complain.  That's the sad part of my job - no matter how much I do someone's going to whine that the system isn't laid out exactly how they want.  I've learned to live with that.  System not up to your individual specs? Tough.

I volunteer my time here.  I am not paid.  I will not be dictated to like a servant or a slave. If you want me to make an interface change and use an idea - be nice about it.  Buzz is the only person in this thread to at least use "please", and he wasn't asking for the option to remove the tags.  Here's a hint - I'm far more likely to be responsive to something phrased politely than I am to an edict or demand.</rant>


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## Michael Morris (Feb 26, 2005)

buzz said:
			
		

> Great. Can we get a "Gameday" category, please?




Ok, I went ahead and put this back in (also accidently alphabatized the whole list :\ )


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## buzz (Feb 26, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Ok, I went ahead and put this back in (also accidently alphabatized the whole list :\ )



Sweet! (Re: adding the category, not the alphbetizing.)

Thanks!


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## Gez (Feb 26, 2005)

*Just kidding, dudes, in case you don't get it. *

Yeah! That alphabetizing _sucks_! It makes it *hard to use*! Angryangryangry now!


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## Felonious Ntent (Feb 26, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> good rant



Actualy Michael/Spooney  one thing I learned in life is that no matter what you do there will always be someone who bitches about it. These people are usualy the minority usualy a vocal minority but still a minority. Don't let them get to you especialy when you are doing this as a labour of love and not being paid for it. There are how many users at EnWorld and how many are complaining? Seems to me most people are either ambivalent or like the change. Look at the glass as half full of good old full bodied brew as opposed to half empty.


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## cybertalus (Feb 26, 2005)

It's only been a few days, but already I'm finding that the threads without categories have begun to bother me.  Last night I even caught myself not looking at the thread titles of a couple topics that didn't have them.  I just skimmed on down the page to the next thread that had a category.  I guess this is my way of saying that I like them and hope they stick around.

I also like that they're text, not graphics.  Text-only is much easier to read.


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## Jdvn1 (Feb 26, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Buzz is the only person in this thread to at least use "please", and he wasn't asking for the option to remove the tags.



I didn't even think about that, but that's a good point too.  Sorry for not saying please beforehand.


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## DanMcS (Feb 27, 2005)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> I volunteer my time here.  I am not paid.  I will not be dictated to like a servant or a slave.




Yes, because people asking if it would be possible, and/or offering to help, is exactly the same as dictating to you like you're a slave.


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## Piratecat (Feb 27, 2005)

Let's give this a rest of a little while, please -- while we listen to that hot new radio station K-LUNK!


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