# The Ultimate RPG tabletop network tool



## Luke (Apr 21, 2005)

*What features does the ultimate RPG tool have for networking at the tabletop?*

I want to build it, and could well already be a long way down the track.

Whilst things stay pretty much invisible here in the software forum and it'll be hard to get feedback, the general forum had a *massive* thread about using a projector and a computer to show maps on the tabletop. It just goes to show that very many players get great results when the right tools are available.

Its a very open-ended question, but rather than prejudice any early responses, I'll just mention very briefly the sorts of general things I'm talking about:

1) A tool that the DM can use, which, by itself, has very strong D&D/D20 capabilities - when used at the table-top. This would include stuff such as generating characters/NPCs/monsters, adventure notes, maps, locations and encounters. It would have a great mapping tool, but also let you use maps from apps like CC2 or Fractal mapper.

2) the mapper would be interactive, letting you easily move PCs and creatures around on the map. You would also be able to do things like quickly generate encounters on the map.

3) Even without networking, the DM's app should have a "Player Window", which could show a player's version of the map (revealing only appropriate sections), and also show any other pics or info that the DM has available.
This would be especially great if the DM's PC has a 2nd monitor, as the players could be continually updated with the current map, and other info.

4) The DM's app should be able to network with 1 or more players using their own PC. This could be another computer at the table, or even across the internet. This should give the players a great interactive map, allowing them to move their own PCs and creatures around the map. Stuff like chat would also be needed.
Preferably, they could also perform actions (like attacks and saves), which would interact with the DM's PC, and you would get a lot of game mechanics automatically calculated for you.
A great option would be to have players able to move their creatures, select actions, and then enter dice rolls (or push a button to roll dice), and have the DM oversee and manage the game mechanics that result.

5) It would also be nice to have the DM's app be a web server, where players without a special player app could even use a browser. You can't expect too much from a browser, but you could at least get a latest picture of the map, and perhaps even a chat facility.


Quality and ease-of-use would be very important. I realize that a smooth-paced quality internet app would have very, very demanding features, but I'm not too concerned about that.


*So, what are the killer features? Things could obviously be a lot better than simply using a projector to show maps on the table. It seems obvious that there's a lot to be gained if we have the ultimate RPG networked at - even for just using at the table.*

I'll look to complete a detailed list of features that I'll post later.


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## J-Buzz (Apr 21, 2005)

In the Chat area.

You should allow the dm to send information to certain characters but not all.  For example the skill focused rogue might hear someone snoring down the hall where the rest do not.

You should allow Characters to chat/whisper between themselves.  So that they can plan actions that the DM can see for plot reasons (IE:  seedy fighter and rough rogue type are planning to rip the party off, or steal from a local)  That way the dm can make listen, spot checks for other characters to build plot.  A way for the PC's to plot actions unknown to the DM.

Things like that would be nice.


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## Wonko the Sane (Apr 21, 2005)

I'd like to see the capability to import maps (in .jpg or .bmp format), since I have used all sorts of computer mapping programs and have decided that handdrawn is the only way to fly.

Go Luke!


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## Luke (Apr 21, 2005)

WoJ-Buzz said:
			
		

> You should allow Characters to chat/whisper between themselves



Thanks. My current work allows for selcting the DM, All, or a specific player. I had thought about multi-select of specific players, but it needs a more complex user interface than a simple single selection. I had thought of multi-select as being more of a "future feature" - but this is the purpose of my open question. To find out what people are asking for!



			
				Wonko the Sane said:
			
		

> I'd like to see the capability to import maps (in .jpg or .bmp format),



Absolutely! Already done + also import .emf and .wmf files. The .emf and .wmf formats (supported by apps like CC2) are vector-based, and are great for creating big maps that zoom in with great precision.


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 21, 2005)

Allow the player to have adjustable "templates" they can overlay on the map - mainly for spellcasters but others may find a use. Allow them to move them around themselves. That way the mage can place his fireball precisely.


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## Chacal (Apr 21, 2005)

random ideas :

1 -Ability to make global checks for skills, saves (menu based or a simplified character sheet) .
 Example The Dm clicks "spot" and sees   _failed by x_ in red , or _success by y_ in green next to the char's names in the list of players/npcs/monsters.
 The x/y value is much more useful  than a simple failed/success because it allows the DM to integrate things that the computer can't realistically compute (like : I give redgar a -2 because he's focusing too much on the waitress )

2- ability to restrict chat between users   

3- monitoring spell durations/ conditions for each player/npc/monster

4 - ability to define and activate/deactivate triggers for alerts ( in a non intrusive way, like in a status bar or message bar)  like : any PC under X HP


Chacal


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## Luke (Apr 21, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Allow the player to have adjustable "templates" they can overlay on the map - mainly for spellcasters but others may find a use. Allow them to move them around themselves. That way the mage can place his fireball precisely.




Sorry - not sure what you mean about "templates". is this something to do with area effect spells?
I currently have the ability to select multiple targets for something like a spell. That's up to a human to manually choose which creatures are targets of a current action. Its simple - a lot simpler than trying somehow describe an area of effect which will automatically select targets in the area.
Whilst I hope to get away with manual selection initially, I'm keen to know if an area of effect auto-select is seen as been very desireable. There are complications with things such as cover, and also options for actions such as a lightening bolt, which could have different "templates".

Could it be that a player could simply, manually select targets, and a DM could over-ride the selection, based on intricacies such as cover (not easily, automatically  modelled by computers)


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 21, 2005)

Luke said:
			
		

> Sorry - not sure what you mean about "templates". is this something to do with area effect spells?
> I currently have the ability to select multiple targets for something like a spell. That's up to a human to manually choose which creatures are targets of a current action. Its simple - a lot simpler than trying somehow describe an area of effect which will automatically select targets in the area.
> Whilst I hope to get away with manual selection initially, I'm keen to know if an area of effect auto-select is seen as been very desireable. There are complications with things such as cover, and also options for actions such as a lightening bolt, which could have different "templates".
> 
> Could it be that a player could simply, manually select targets, and a DM could over-ride the selection, based on intricacies such as cover (not easily, automatically  modelled by computers)




What I mean is that a player could call up a translucent object defining an area of effect. For example, a 20' radius circle to place on the map where he wants to detonate his fireball. This would allow him to make fine adjustments so as to maximize the effectiveness himself.

Another thing - I say allow chat between players, but also allow the DM to monitor it, without them knowing preferably.


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## Vascant (Apr 21, 2005)

This may sound odd, but how about easy to use?

Pretty much most d20/gaming programs today take a Ph.D to use effectively.  My computer has a track record, I purchase a d20 program, install it.. <few weeks later>  It gets removed.  Because most of the software is not re-purchased for newer versions there is no drive to keep the old customer base happy and using the software (Yeah I know, free upgrades are always nice.. if you are actually using the program).


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## Luke (Apr 22, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> What I mean is that a player could call up a translucent object defining an area of effect...
> Another thing - I say allow chat between players, but also allow the DM to monitor it, without them knowing preferably.



Got it. Cool idea.


			
				Vascant said:
			
		

> This may sound odd, but how about easy to use?...
> Pretty much most d20/gaming programs today take a Ph.D to use effectively



Agreed. As I said: "Quality and ease-of-use would be very important."
I find that I'm continually tweaking over time to make things more and more intuitive. My current mapper is getting a heavy work-over - especially for shared networking.

Since D&D/D20 attempts a reasonable "reality simulation" through what must be the most rules intensive game in the entire world, its pretty inevitable that software attempting to carry out that simulation wont be easily intuitive without a *lot* of effort.
Personally, I go for a "phased option approach". The idea is to let people do whatever they want, at the level they want. Program features should have a simple level, but also allow you to dig deeper for extra automation - if you're comfortable with that.

*Simple example:* Use a few mouse clicks to generate an encounter (complete with equipment, extra feats, spell lists etc), and then just work from the resulting statblocks, or creature info window.
Using the full available functionality, you might actually add spell effects, item effects and conditions to your character/creature - making a bit more effort, and getting more accurate results.

*Extended example (from my last gaming session):*Last week my party encountered a dragon. I'm using the full software capabilities for my character. 
1) Green dragon approaches, and DM asks for a Will save, and 3 mouse clicks later I have my full breakdown for my will save. I uncheck the potential elvish enchantment bonus, and thankfully note that the "Bless" still in effect from our Cleric does apply. A double click on my "Bless" condition confirms this in the description from the spell - without checking from the book.
2) I fail my save, and use 3 mouse clicks and 2 key presses to add the "Frightened" condition to my character.
3) A short while later, we're all rolling a reflex save to avoid the full effects of the dragon's breath weapon. It turs out that I only just failed my save. The clincher was that I was *frightened* and it cost me a -2.

The main point here is that *those not using the program (no laptop) forgot to apply their -2 to their save for being frightened*. When I realized that, a further check revealed that a couple also forget to apply the +1 from the Bless in their original save. Its very easy to play inaccurately without a computer to remind you of all the effects in play.

Does it take and need a PhD to get this kind of software support to be of real benefit?
Personally, I *know *that good software can make it work well, although it may take some familiarization to know exactly what the few mouse-clicks or key presses are to get the results.
*For DMs? *Indespensible! From 3rd edition onwards, DMs have the complexity of effectively trying to manage a *hoard* of PCs, since monsters and NPCs *do* have a PC level of complexity.
I'm confident in saying that DMs simply cannot play with the accuracy of the rules as presented in the books (especially high level encounters) - unless they have a good software tool to help them. I realize that this could inflame some, and if you want to challenge me on this point - *please* start a different thread for a challenge, and I'll join you there  . Sure, DMs can be accurate , if they take a very boringly long amount of time for each creature action. Don't forget the dizzying array of modifers that you can start off with (depending on equipment in use, feat options <power attack/point blank range/expertise/rapid shot/etc etc>, spell effects, class abilities, race abilities - and the kicker --> *how all the different effects actually combine with the stacking rules !!!*).

Anyway, however you play, my personal experience is that having strong software options available to you *as options* is ALL GOOD


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## ToneDeF (Apr 23, 2005)

I would like to be able to use Role Playing Master right alongside Fantasy Grounds when running a network game as a DM.  Role Playing Master sports a ton of great features (such as battle management) that Fantasy Grounds will never support (supposedly because of D20 licensing issues), and so the two applications could complement each other nicely.  It would be nice to be able share data between the two (such as being able to drag & drop combat information from Role Playing Master to Fantasy Grounds).  Of course, this would only be possible if SmiteWorks (the company that develops Fantasy Grounds) were willing to provide support to Luke (via sharing of API libraries, data formats, etc.)  I don't know if this sort of collaboration would fly with SmiteWorks, but the idea is not out of the question, since they have planned to cooperate with Code Monkey Publishing (the maintainers of E-Tools and PCGen) to create content.


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## Luke (Apr 28, 2005)

ToneDeF said:
			
		

> I would like to be able to use Role Playing Master right alongside Fantasy Grounds when running a network game as a DM...QUOTE]
> Tried their download on 2 different PCs, and both had problems related to DirectX. It doesn't seem like an uncommon issue on their message board, so I might look back in another month.
> 
> The doco for it didn't seem to offer anything special that I don't intend anyway - which is helpful, since its typically difficult to try and get different companies to co-operate with software integration.
> ...


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## Daherm (Apr 29, 2005)

*rocking my game*

Luke, honestly, what would do it for me, is similar to openRPG, the ability to play a game online, maybe not even knowing the other people personally, but be able to play, and see, everything I, either as a player or the Dm need to have infront of me.

Open RPG would say, let me go into a field marked as spot under skills, and let me instantly roll that skill, and generate the random number. The problem was that the program was very...open faced, and partly ugly, but also confusing. Getting a certain modifier to that spot roll would either require the user to edit the field (troublesome for a limited condition) or just manually roll, and add on whatever as they needed. (it also had a normal built in dice roller along the bottom of the screen)


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## BalazarIago (May 3, 2005)

If your going to have the DM monitor all the different chats, then you may want to set up some type of colour code.  As well, each chat window would have to be logged so that the DM can go back and look at the various conversations that he did not have to monitor earlier.

You have to be careful with regards to setting up the map with auto triggers and such.   When your creating maps in Never Winter Nights, you are able to set items hidden (like Traps) and set their difficulty number and on and on.  I am not sure if this is the path that you want to take.  Seems like a hell of a lot of coding to do, and I am not sure how well things would go over if you set it up so that you could import maps created that way.

I found the application rather complicated to start.  It had a steep learning curve.  Perhaps a tutoral or hints window or some such might help people who are not all that familiar with the game as a whole.

Going to continue playing with it and offer more suggestions.  Those were just some preliminary thoughts and first impressions.


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## Luke (May 4, 2005)

Daherm said:
			
		

> Luke, honestly, what would do it for me, is similar to openRPG, the ability to play a game online, maybe not even knowing the other people personally, but be able to play, and see, everything I, either as a player or the Dm need to have infront of me.
> 
> Open RPG would say, let me go into a field marked as spot under skills, and let me instantly roll that skill, and generate the random number. The problem was that the program was very...open faced, and partly ugly, but also confusing. Getting a certain modifier to that spot roll would either require the user to edit the field (troublesome for a limited condition) or just manually roll, and add on whatever as they needed. (it also had a normal built in dice roller along the bottom of the screen)




My app already has the "everything under the sun" featureset for single player mode.
You'll find that the actions window is particularly comprehensive.
Using a skill check example of an action, all the relevant modifiers are listed that apply as modifiers to a die roll. You can quickly check/uncheck anything that does/doesn't apply (such as an elvish enchantment bonus for a will check). You also automatically get all the DC modifiers and options can be quickly reviewed and selected from a combobox (such as selecting the surface type DC for a climb check).
Its similar for an attack, where the ToHit modifiers replace the skill modifiers, and the DC modifiers are automatically replaced by the targets AC details.
In addition, the full description of the action (be it an attack, save, skill check, spell, or sepcial action), is presented - to save time looking up books, or even the built-in encyclopaedic database.

The mapper itself would be quite different from OpenRPG. You would be able to create detailed maps or use other maps (such as CC2, scanned images - whatever).
I'm testing a design that allows for on-the-fly modifications, whilst ensuring acceptable speed over internet connections.


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## Luke (May 4, 2005)

BalazarIago said:
			
		

> If your going to have the DM monitor all the different chats, then you may want to set up some type of colour code. As well, each chat window would have to be logged so that the DM can go back and look at the various conversations that he did not have to monitor earlier.
> 
> You have to be careful with regards to setting up the map with auto triggers and such. When your creating maps in Never Winter Nights, you are able to set items hidden (like Traps) and set their difficulty number and on and on. I am not sure if this is the path that you want to take. Seems like a hell of a lot of coding to do, and I am not sure how well things would go over if you set it up so that you could import maps created that way.
> 
> ...




I already plan to log the chats. The log would be a permanent individualized record, whereas the chat window would show the recent interactions - listed one after the other.

I also plan for the log to support a kind of "super comment", which goes beyond the standard chat line. This would allow copy-and-paste of images, notes, whatever - using a powerful word-processor capability.

When you say "I found the application rather complicated to start..." are you talking about NWN or RPM? I'm currently doing entensive changes to RPM to make the various aspects of networking and mapping far more intuitive.


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## Arc (May 5, 2005)

I'm fairly ambivalent about mapping software, since a grid, some basic tokens, and the ability to draw a straight line are all that's really necessary. The killer app for me, however, is the chat functionality.

It needs to be seamless, and allow for custom aliases/changed nicks. If my character's name is Bob, I want chat to show up as <Bob> "hello". Having a DM tool to easily switch between nicks is also good. It also needs to have a /me function, so in character actions are vivid, not just described.

The dicebot needs to be robust, and have a very clear syntax. Flexability is a must, but being able to get exactly the roll you want without futzing about with a dropdown menu or looking up on a help page is crucial. Your modifiers toolbar sounds great. For the output, it needs to be annotated clearly, and allow for custom animations.

Built in character sheets/monsters/statblocks... I'm a bit hesitant about these. Sure, it may be nice to have the SRD already there, but most people know it decently enough. Having to add every custom class, PrC, feat, skill, monster, house rules, etc.... that's a pain in the ass. Keeping a paper copy or an excel sheet isn't too hard, and everyone has a different way of doing it. Regardless of how good the implimentation is, there needs to be an option to turn it off.


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## Luke (May 5, 2005)

Arc said:
			
		

> I'm fairly ambivalent about mapping software, since a grid, some basic tokens, and the ability to draw a straight line are all that's really necessary...




I tend to agree personally, but many don't. I think that its about choice. Certainly, if you don't use fancy graphics, then there's no need for the initial upload to players of whatever greaphics are required. I think that having the option to try do a lot more is very good.

Thanks for reinforcing the in-character/out-of-character chat requirement.



			
				Arc said:
			
		

> Built in character sheets/monsters/statblocks... I'm a bit hesitant about these. Sure, it may be nice to have the SRD already there, but most people know it decently enough. Having to add every custom class, PrC, feat, skill, monster, house rules, etc.... that's a pain in the ass. Keeping a paper copy or an excel sheet isn't too hard, and everyone has a different way of doing it. Regardless of how good the implimentation is, there needs to be an option to turn it off.



Once again, I think that its about choice. With my app, the classes PrC, feats, skills, monster etc... are already in. You can also import datasets for extra stuff. Its particularly useful for DMs, who can generate an entire encounter with fully (sensibly) equipped opponents - complete with chosen feats and spell lists etc.
This is a HUGE time-saver, allowing you to play opponents with genuine variety. DMs no longer have to play their creatures as if a 10 were rolled for each ability before racial adjustments. The old problem disappears where the standard character race NPCs have varied stats, but every ogre and hobgoblin has the same Str, Dex,... Even playing "cardboard cut-outs" straight from the MM still gets you issues, when basic ability stats start getting modified by spell effects, encumbrance, magical items, standard conditions (such as stunned), poisons.
Having the *option* to get the computer to automatically manage all this for you - also automatically taking *stacking rules* into consideration, is a great thing.


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## Sigurd (May 5, 2005)

I think the two most important things are:


Get as many people working on different little bits as possible. You don't want to do it all and the world doesn't want to be dissapointed if you get new interests or get hit by a bus.

Come up with a utility path where the thing becomes useful for something as quickly as possible. This builds enthusiasm and helps the above. Code can be refactorred rewritten etc.... but enthusiasm and sense of accomplishment are harder to maintain.

S


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## Luke (May 5, 2005)

Sigurd said:
			
		

> I think the two most important things are:
> 
> ...Get as many people working on different little bits as possible. You don't want to do it all and the world doesn't want to be dissapointed if you get new interests or get hit by a bus.
> ...




Well, its just me, and has been for the last 3 years. RPM is already the most comprehensive RPG tool I'm aware of, and this is simply taking it to the networking level.

The huge bulk of it is already done. I'm currently :
- Testing a player PC and DM PC moving stuff around, and seeing it update live.
- Testing basic chat facilities.
- Reworking the interface to make it as easy to use as possible.
- Reworking the message layer to automatically compress/decompress byte streams for maximised performance over slow internet connections.

When I'm happy with those facets, I'll do an initial beta release.

Not all features will be immediately available, but its still very important to get all this valuable input into the wishlist as early as possible.


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## EPRock (May 6, 2005)

Things that I would like to see

- Option During Combat (Restrict Private Chat)
Allow to whisper or chat during their turn only.


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## azhrei_fje (May 11, 2005)

(Luke, I had some fun finding RPM; perhaps a link should be in your .sig?)

Have you seen/tried DMGenie?  It seems to compare very favorably to RPM, although I will admit that the author of DMGenie is so far reluctant to address the networking aspect.   Things that I like about it:  customizable using VBscript, programmable user interface (buttons execute user-defined VBscript code), condition tracking, mapping with "hotspots" (links to other areas of an adventure), creatures/items movable on the map, random encounter generation via statblocks, item tracking (magical weapons/armor, wand charges, etc), inventory items as containers, support for familiars/animal companions/special mounts via scriptable feats (very flexible and easy for the user to further customize), combat tracker (rounds and initiative), and combat log (RTF control).

Things I don't like:  written in VB (no speed demon), not open source (I've considered writing my own in Java or C++ and open sourcing it), scripting support for spells/psionics and magic items is underway but not complete, needs some kind of "equipment set" so that creatures can easily switch from "melee" to "ranged" mode without having to manually wield weapons and such (only a few clicks, but still...), and lack of networking.

I've just downloaded RPM so I'll try it out in the next few days.  I remember trying it a long time ago, but it has been quite awhile.  Who knows?  With fog-of-war support, I might even switch to RPM!


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## Nylanfs (May 12, 2005)

I'd like a link to it as well


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## DonTadow (May 13, 2005)

azhrei_fje said:
			
		

> (Luke, I had some fun finding RPM; perhaps a link should be in your .sig?)
> 
> Have you seen/tried DMGenie?  It seems to compare very favorably to RPM, although I will admit that the author of DMGenie is so far reluctant to address the networking aspect.   Things that I like about it:  customizable using VBscript, programmable user interface (buttons execute user-defined VBscript code), condition tracking, mapping with "hotspots" (links to other areas of an adventure), creatures/items movable on the map, random encounter generation via statblocks, item tracking (magical weapons/armor, wand charges, etc), inventory items as containers, support for familiars/animal companions/special mounts via scriptable feats (very flexible and easy for the user to further customize), combat tracker (rounds and initiative), and combat log (RTF control).
> 
> ...




I have used tried dmgenie and roleplaying master and I will say, while it has its problems, dm genie is the best.  RPM crashes alot on both of my systems (and i have a gig of memory).   Plus the ease of use is very difficult to begin and even then the information is not right there in front of you.  

DM genie is pretty easy and visually more appealing.  The maps from dundjinni incorporate easily into it.  Plus with vb its very customizable.  I figured out a way to reallsitically incoprotate the elements of magic point system into the system. 

  The gripes I have is that they do not have a universal notes system that carry's from eon adventure to the next, and the weather system doesnt have a location specific weather pattern.


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## Luke (May 15, 2005)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> DM genie is pretty easy and visually more appealing. The maps from dundjinni incorporate easily into it. Plus with vb its very customizable. I figured out a way to reallsitically incoprotate the elements of magic point system into the system.
> 
> 
> > "Visually more appealing" is pretty much personal taste. It uses pretty much a standard windows interface. RPM originally had such an interface, and with all the windows and information availabe, it turned out eventually that most preferred the colour-coded skinning approach.
> ...


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## garignack (May 15, 2005)

...


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## garignack (May 15, 2005)

I see that networking should support tabletop and internet gameplay.  The networking cababilities should such that both methods can be used.  

I typically break gameplay into 4 phases, adventuring, combat, rewards, character development.  

My thoughts:

Adventuring:

Chat, common map display, a place to share NPC pictures, skill checks, dynamic map, (all not revealed at once).  Sound Effects. (either streamed or locally stored, remotely triggered)

Combat:

 networked combat management engine, players able to see what other players and mob's are doing while planning thier next move.  Players able to move thier character on the combat map

rewards:

 Dm driven Xp distribution. DM can give items directly or place items into a queue and allow players to divy up rewardst,

Character Development:

Dm can change any value on character sheets, Players are limited to using the leveling wizard. Creation of a Class Creation Wizard so that the DM can create custom prestige classes easier.

Those are the ideas that come to mind when talking about networked RPG games.  I really enjoy using RoleplayingMaster.  I love how it allows me to focus on the story and gameplay instead of spending tons of time on the technical specifics.

Garignack


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## Slipshod (May 16, 2005)

Luke said:
			
		

> I should also mention something that has come up in RPM discussions - a genuine stacking rules capability in the RPG engine. Don't just look at things like AC. Apparantly there are some serious concerns with the app you chose. This amazed me, since to the mind of many, its getting all the stacking rules ultimately correct that is what has people leaning most to using a computer in-game.



  FYI - The recent 2.15 release of DMGenie has full stacking rules.



			
				LUKE said:
			
		

> Hopefully we can get the FEATURES right for what people want, and I can make it available. If others also want to go ahead and make other stuff available - then great!
> Lets talk about NETWORKING FEATURES - please...




1.  Accurate, Complete, easy to understand documentation is a must.  Some people (especially myself) won't use a program if we have to waste time figuring out how to perform simple things in the software.

2.  Customizable Avatar icons.  Not just miniatures on the battle-map - I'm talking about optional displays in the chats, and as an indicator for who's turn it is.

3.  Somebody mentioned spell-effect overlays - they should be done in a manner consistent with the map overlay type.  So if it's a square grid, a 30' radius spell effect should be displayed in 5' square chunks arranged according to the DMG layouts when the player is placing it.

4.  Three layers to the mapper - Fog of war, Player Map, DM Secrets.  From the DM side the top two should be partially transparent. There should also be a quick and easy way to erase each layer to reveal items beneath it (traps, secret doors, etc...).  The players should see a view with each layer opaque.

5.  EASY way to scale the grid to the map, as well as an easy way to scale the entire map/grid so that when you're using an overhead projector you can easily adjust the grid into 1" squares.

6.  Movement planning - some method for the players to pre-plan moves (and see potential for AoA).

That's it for now, gotta run...


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## Luke (May 16, 2005)

Thanks Slipshod,

I appreciate the comments.

Not sure what you meant about planning movement, though. My current work simply allows players to move around their own PCs, and all connected maps simply update. I'm thinking about the DM being able to apply a temporary "lockdown" during turn processing for other creatures.
One thing I want to avoid (and this is my general RPG app philosophy), is a very regimented program, where (for example) players can only move their own PCs strictly in sequence - at all times.
This would be annoying for the all too common scenario where a DM says something like "Okay now, I need you all to tell me exactly where in the room you're standing." Generally there are times when free-for-all placement of connected players is a good thing.
I was also thinking that players simply move their PCs on the map as their movement turn comes up. Very often, creatures that had a turn just before them may well have moved (at least a 5' step). This means that a "movement plan" perhaps isn't worth all the effort, since you may not know exactly where you want to move to until its actually your turn (given the possible movements of those just before you).
In my current work you just drag around, and others see it in real-time.

Regards,
Luke


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## Slipshod (May 19, 2005)

Luke said:
			
		

> Not sure what you meant about planning movement, though. My current work simply allows players to move around their own PCs, and all connected maps simply update. I'm thinking about the DM being able to apply a temporary "lockdown" during turn processing for other creatures.[.QUOTE]
> 
> I'm more talking about planning their actual move on their "turn".  In table-top games we have a rule where you have to declare "I'm moving here" while actually tapping your miniature in each square while you count off the movement out loud.  This lets people explore various movement options to see which paths get them which distances and provoke (or not) attacks of opportunity.  After they've decided, they tap-tap-tap their way through the movement and we resolve AoO on the way.
> It seems like if you're just allowing them to slide around counters without actually marking movement it could lead to arguments (I didn't move through that square!) and confusion when people just slide the counter to the destination without any indication of the path it took to get there.
> ...


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## Mr.Ice (May 24, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Allow the player to have adjustable "templates" they can overlay on the map




Such as for reach -- playing a normally large creature which has had enlarge creature cast on him and has picked up a new reach weapon makes things just as interesting as the exact placement of the wizard's fireball.

The template should be easily removed by the player when it's not needed.


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## Mr.Ice (May 24, 2005)

Slipshod said:
			
		

> I'm more talking about planning their actual move on their "turn".




I like the way Klooge handles this with a temporary line following your movement on the map for all to see...    That with an easy 'undo' would probably satisfy the trial and error too.


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## Nifoyg (Jun 14, 2005)

*networking*

I'm very happy to hear about your recent network work and look forward to the beta.

What I believe others have said, and is very *very* important is that while play progresses around the table... which (a) should be shown in an "initive order" list somewhere on the players interface (b) along with a message constantly updating saying how many player/creatures are in front of you, before you need to act.  

What we need is for the player to be able to (c) mark the exact path he is going to take, and thus as he clicks each square, it will color code saying if that square is affected by some combat modifier such as ... [Entering Control of Moster B], [AoO: Leaving Control of Monster B] in which the player then right clicks the desired squares and chooses another square so as to not disturb them.  (d)  As thiis player is clicking squares a list is building of his actions [Change Speed: Run] [Move North] [Move Northeast]... or ... [Cast Spell: Fireball] [Move South].

At any time a move or effect is made that would alter the presently entered 'turn' [note: this means there is an update run on each characters temporary move] by the character such a creature enters or exits his spell effect area, etc then it would alert and allow the player, (e) if they wanted to click the step previous to that and restart, or they could just restart from the begininning.

This process is generally what is done as players huddle over the map, counting squares for their ranges, etc.  As a DM you always say... "please be ready with your turn"...  but it never happens.  With this you could time each player and award bonuses for quick play.

What woud be really nice is if there was a list of available choices for players to click on, and potentially if an action was unavailable the reason why it was for that character at that time.  For example if you are laying prone, a lot of options are not available to you.  It would be nice if your list of choices reported that (f) as well as a status area for yourself.

What I'm really talking about is a process that speeds up turns and fully empowers the DM to be able to manage play over long distances over the internet without having to explain a lot, as hopefully its all right there.


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## Luke (Jun 14, 2005)

*Thanks !!!  Now for a beta program !*

Thanks guys. Excellent suggestions.

I've already done a lot of work, and I can see that I'll need to implement the full set of features in stages.

Everyone is welcome to try out the first beta update as of today. If you don't have the program already installed (so that you can apply the update file), please download and install that first.

I've started off with some solid basics, and will look to make frequest updates. I'll do another post here very soon, to explain whats already in the initial update.


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## Timat (Jun 15, 2005)

*Ideas*

I don't know if it's too late to say any ideas that a few of my friends and I have about something like this, but I'll say them anyway.

1.) Be able to connect through the internet. Allow the players to join a channel or 'server' that the DM hosts.
2.) Have quick monster/treasure slots so that way if the DM is using the same type of monster over again, they just bring down the slot and click and it'll bring a set version of it up (or even a slightly stronger or weaker one, depending on a range of 'hit points' or 'armor class' you give it)
3.) Be able to add your own skills, spells, classes, feats, races, weapons, armor. If you want this to be the best thing, it should be as versitile as ever. Especailly if you are going to support most D20 games. Even being able to add in new slots for weapon quality/material. (I.E.  Material: Fine Steel,  Quality:  Exceptional,  Base Weapon: Long Sword  Enchantments/Enhancements: Flaming, +2, Keen) The weapons and armor alone can be modified by each DM to an insane amount, so why not just add in a list where they can put in their own weapons and armor? Add in an 'Other' slot so they can add in any modifer for their weapons and armor.

That's all I really have to say for now...I'll be checking in to see if you have any questions about this, or would like any other ideas...I've been looking for a good D20 program to help me and my DnD group stay together since we're far away, and I think there is a lot of potential in this.


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## Luke (Jun 15, 2005)

Timat said:
			
		

> I don't know if it's too late to say any ideas that a few of my friends and I have about something like this, but I'll say them anyway.



Not too late. I'm doing a staged implementation, with the initial version available now.


			
				Timat said:
			
		

> 1.) Be able to connect through the internet. Allow the players to join a channel or 'server' that the DM hosts.



Absolutely. When the DM sets himself up as a server (a quick mouse click), players on either a local network, or the internet, can join in. To make it simple, players have a 'Discovery' button, which will automatically find other people on the local LANs, or those on the internet.
It is *very* simple, except that DMs set up behind router firewalls and NAT could have to do a little configuration work (unaviodable in modern networking).



			
				Timat said:
			
		

> 2.) Have quick monster/treasure slots so that way if the DM is using the same type of monster over again, they just bring down the slot and click and it'll bring a set version of it up (or even a slightly stronger or weaker one, depending on a range of 'hit points' or 'armor class' you give it)



You can have as big a group of templated monsters or NPCs as you like, then simply "Copy" a selected creature, and then drag the copy onto the map. You can just as easily create new monsters, or generate random encounters, directly on the map. That includes options to automatically add appropriate feats, equipment, and even generate spell lists. Even a reasonably large high level  encounter can be generated in this way in a few seconds.



			
				Timat said:
			
		

> 3.) Be able to add your own skills, spells, classes, feats, races, weapons, armor. If you want this to be the best thing, it should be as versitile as ever. Especailly if you are going to support most D20 games. Even being able to add in new slots for weapon quality/material. (I.E. Material: Fine Steel, Quality: Exceptional, Base Weapon: Long Sword Enchantments/Enhancements: Flaming, +2, Keen) The weapons and armor alone can be modified by each DM to an insane amount, so why not just add in a list where they can put in their own weapons and armor? Add in an 'Other' slot so they can add in any modifer for their weapons and armor.



The program is already, unquestionnably, the most open and flexible RPG tool when it comes to generating your own d20 datasets (complete with classes, races, items, feats, skills, spells, etc etc) - and being able to include any game mechanics for in-game play. There's a yahoo site of fans that create and share this material.


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## Hussar (Jun 15, 2005)

Sounds great.  I'd love to take a look at the beta.  I've been using OpenRPG regularly for a couple of years now, so it would be nice to see something else.  It would be nice.  Now, howzabout a linkie to your program please?


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## Luke (Jun 15, 2005)

Hussar said:
			
		

> Sounds great. I'd love to take a look at the beta. I've been using OpenRPG regularly for a couple of years now, so it would be nice to see something else. It would be nice. Now, howzabout a linkie to your program please?




Oops. You can get it from my website at  RolePlayingMaster. Since this is currently a beta, you need to have the full  program installed, before you apply the beta update.


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## Luke (Jun 15, 2005)

*First release features*









 (click to see enlarged image)

*The features of the initial beta release are:*

1) The basic application
2) Networking Connectivity.
3) Networked battlemap features

*Feature breakdown:*

*1) The basic application*
--------------------
This is really just the already existing RPM program, but is repeated here for anyone unfamiliar with the program.

1.1 Adventure preparation - a fully-fledged adventure builder that lets you build a hierarchy of notes, optionally based on the official recommendations for adventure structure. You can also construct maps, complete with locations (DM and player descriptions), and encounter groups.

1.2 Monster/NPC/PC generation - a full generation capability, which caters for different d20 datasets. This includes generators for equipment, spell lists, feats, etc, to build complete encounters very quickly. Quick enough to do at the gaming table, on-the-fly.

1.3 Combat management - full initiative and action management (attacks, skill checks, spell casting, other miscellaneous actions), followed by automated XP calculation at the end of an encounter

*2) Networking Connectivity*
 -----------------------
This describes how networking works.

2.1 Connencting: A DM becomes a game server with a simple networking selection option. Some people will discover that they are prevented from becoming a game server (eg. behind a protected firewall , or a router with NAT enabled). I will publish some information for those who need to overcome such an obstacle.

2.2 Security: A DM can maintain a list of accepted players and optional passwords. This gives security if players are connecting over the internet. To make things easier, the DM can elect to accept a connection from a player when they first connect, which adds them to the player list for future connections.

2.2 After a DM becomes a game server, players can connect to it. There are 2 basic kinds of connections - on a local network, or via the internet. The RPM program will automatically find any players on the internet, or on a local network (be it dial-up, ethernet cable, wireless connction, or any combination of those). This makes it easy to find the DM you need to connect to.

2.3 At any time you can perform a new search to see who is currently on the internet, or who is on your local network Only players really need to do this. DMs typically just set themselves into networking mode and then wait for players to connect.

2.4 Optimizing performance - this is very important, with the challenge being to provide full flexibility, whilst offering good performance crucial to smooth gameplay flow.
For this the program has the following features "under the hood::

 2.4.1 - A network layer optimized for speed. This is mostly about rationalizing messages to limit what is needed to be transferred, and then using message compression to share the data around.

 2.4.2 - Image management. The player application automatically detects when it needs to get new images (be they complete maps, textures, or simply monster images), and requests them. They are transferred, on demand, from the DM game server. RPM manages a library of images, and encourages re-use of the image library, whcih means that you shouldn't often need to request new images. 
The overall effect is that images are typically sent after the first connection, and after that only if the DM does some "on-the-spot" changes.

 2.4.5 - Map updates. Simple movement of creatures on a map is automatically handled quickly and simply by the networking - updating all player clients. If the DM does extra changes (such as changing location markers, or making non-image changes), then that kind of change is relatively small (compared to adding images), and is quickly transmitted.

*3) Networked battlemap features*
--------------------------------
Whilst the application is a fully-featured RPG engine, with all sorts of capabilities, the BattleMap is the "nerve-centre" for networked operation.

3.1 BattleMap: The Battlemap is used as the focal point when entering networked mode. If there is no current BattleMap, then one will be created.

3.2 Adventure details: The current advanture and map becomes the context for a network game when networking. At any time, the DM could switch to a different map (or even adventure), and press the "Player Map Update" button to make it the current game context.

3.3 Chat facilities: At the moment these are very basic, and don't incorporate the more excellent suggestions made by various people. Its a simple ability to players to speak to All, the DM, or another player. The DM sees all.

3.4 Performing actions (attacks/saves/skill checks etc): This is partially done, but not yet properly implemented for players.  This is a very key part of the design, and should minimise the need for archaic chatting facilities. The idea is that the DM and players can nominate targets (if necessary), and then perform actions. RPM has advanced combat management capabilities for this, which give the DM a full view of all effects and options. In a later release, the players will get to see their own information (as appropriate).

3.5 Dice Rolling: All actions will be manged at the DMs computer, but players will still get to roll their dice. This could include things such as attack rolls, and then damage, crit attempts. In a subsequent release, player dice rolls will initiate from the DM's computer, but result in dice rolling pop-ups on the player screen. Without any opportunity for cheating, the player will press a "Roll Dice" button, which will send the result back.


<<<< More to come on the mapping button functionality >>>>


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## Timat (Jun 16, 2005)

*Impressive*

I gotta say, that's pretty Impressive. You've done a really good job creating it, and you are (no joke) the first person who already had the things I mentioned earlier in this kind of program. And if this is just the Beta version, I'd like to see when you get even more of it up and running! Great job, keep it up!


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## Luke (Jun 23, 2005)

*Mapping Features (continued)*

Click on the large image link in my previous post to more easily understand the following explanations.
*
The Player's View
*The main design behind the players view is to give a flexible picture of what's going on. It must be easy to move around, see exactly who is who, how they're doing, and exactly what they look like (as dictated by the DM).
The idea is to rely on slow keyboard chat as little as possible.


Players can only see the mapped sections that the DM has revealed.   
Players are free to pan and zoom around the map, examining areas that have already been discovered. At any time, a 'DM Zoom' button can be pressed to zoom back to the current game view, as seen by the DM.   
An update button can also be pressed to get the most up-to-date map picture, if you feel that you need it. This is generally a very quick update process, since the map itself is relatively small and compresses well. Any required bitmaps have almost always already being loaded.   
Players can move their characters around on the map. This isn't just in strict turn sequence, since often players need to arrange their exact map placement before an encounter begins.   
Players and DMs can instantly see exactly who is who, and on which side creatures belong. A green bar indicates the player group, whereas a red bar indicates opponenets. No bar colour at all indicates a creature not involved in the encounter (within a city, for example).   
Players can also see who has already been defeated, and who has aready had their turn. A red cross through a creature indicates that they are defeated, and a green cross that they have already had their turn.   
Players can get a description of any characters, or creatures, by simply moving the mouse over any creature. Descriptions are automatically generated, but the DM can adjust or update them at any time. PCs are much more thoroughly described in terms of things such as hitpoints and current actions.   
Players can request to send any PCs they have created to the DM. This allows them to particpate in fully managed combat on the DM's computer.   
Players can select various options by right-clicking on their characters. This is a very quick way to indicate what action you're going to perform, and have it fully managed by the DM's computer. This includes selecting your targets. This is much quicker and better than using chat to indicate your basic targets and intentions to the DM. [Note that this work is currently not fully done].   
As dice rolls are required, a dice popup will appear for a players, explaining what the roll is for (as dictated by the DM), and waiting for a single button press to make the dice roll. 
*The DM's View
*The main design behind the DM's view is to be able to fully control the game, and with full flexibility. The RPM application is a full D20 RPG toolset, fully integrated into a networking tool. 

The networking capability is useful even at a single table, where a 2nd computer can you used by the players to get a continuously updated map, and place their player counters.
Networking is even useful with just a single computer, since the map reveal features can show the players their own view of the map in a special window, along with any descriptions or useful images (from the adventure notes, or anywhere else). The player window is particularly useful with a 2-monitor computer (which can also be displayed via a projector).   
The DM has full flexibility to "map as he goes". At any time the map can be placed in "full edit mode", and any required changes or additions can be made. A quick update can then be sent to all players, with a press of a button. Generally, any  bitmap images are already on the player's computers, making the process very fast.   
The DM can also reveal or hide map sections, and then press the player map update button to update all players.   
The DM can at all times see the map, and know which parts are revealed to the players. A 'Player View' button lets him switch between Player/DM views to get the exact players view, if required.   
DMs can control visibility, in addition to using reveal features. A quick right-mouse click can instantly make any creature or object visible, or invisible. For example, a secret door may be within the revealed map sections, but still invisible to the players.   
The DM gets a full description of all players and creatures (names, classes, current actions, hit points etc) by simply moving the mouse over them.   
Right-Clicking on a creature allows the DM to control a vast array of options, such as:   
Select actions (attacks, saves, spell casting, skill checks etc).     
Targeting     
Request a dice roll (from a character).     
View the creature's full details in a window.     
Set their encounter status (active, defeated (normally automatic), group etc).     
Enter damage (normally automati), or heal.     
Change the player description.     
Set visibility.     
Change the display image.     
Delete, or simply remove from the map.   

The DM can pan and zoom as required, then press a player update button to set  players to the same zoom, and make sure that everyone is looking at the same thing.   
*All of the standard combat management, generators, XP calculation and RPG rules lookups that were already in RPM before networking, are still there and full integrated.*


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## Catavarie (Jun 28, 2005)

Okay so I purchased RP Master today and I installed it, and I get an error that reads "The procedure entry point @Gx_outlook@Finalization$$qqrv could not be located in the dynamic link library D20COMP.BPL."  I've tried to repair the program through the setup, and even tried to reinstall and I'm still getting the same error message.  Any suggestions?


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## Luke (Jun 29, 2005)

Catavarie said:
			
		

> ..I get an error that reads...




Sorry this happened to you. Please use the support forum on the RPM website as this thread is just about mapping features.
Your problem is exactly what happens if you apply an update to an installation of a fairly old version. Its a DLL incompatibility problem I'm guessing that you registered through RPGnow, then applied the network beta update (almost all registrations are directly off the RPM website).
If you apply the networking beta update to a full install downloaded from the RPM website, you should be fine.
Sorry again for the inconvenience.


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## Luke (Jul 23, 2005)

*New update available*

A new update is available.

The key features are being able to transfer your fully worked characters to the DMs computer (and back again), and new networked dice rolling.

Whilst the DM controls the action, players that are connected via networking can have automatic dice rolling popups appear during the action. This is for things such as attacks, saves, skill checks, and opposed skill checks (as RPM understands automatic opposed skill checks).

Thanks to those who have already provided plenty of feedback. Keep it coming!


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## Luke (Aug 22, 2005)

*New update with documentation*

I've posted another update, focussed on providing some documentatio, and also on making the more advanced features work more easily and obviously.

The program is at: http://www.roleplayingmaster.com

A sample documentation export is at: http://www.enworld.org/RolePlayingMaster/screenshots/networking_mapper.htm

Many thanks for the feedback received, and feel free to keep it coming.


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## Delak (Aug 28, 2005)

Do the players need to register there copy of RPM in order to connect to a DM's version?


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## Luke (Sep 12, 2005)

Delak said:
			
		

> Do the players need to register there copy of RPM in order to connect to a DM's version?




Oops. Sorry I missed this one for so long.

You should be able to connect without needing to be registered. If you try, and have a problem, just let me know, and I'll sort it out.


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## Delak (Sep 12, 2005)

Thank you for the reply I will give it a try and let you know. I am also having some trouble getting started using RPM mostly in the combat management area - I have not had a lot of time to go through the tutoral but is there anything that you suggest that might help with the process?


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## Luke (Sep 12, 2005)

Delak said:
			
		

> Thank you for the reply I will give it a try and let you know. I am also having some trouble getting started using RPM mostly in the combat management area - I have not had a lot of time to go through the tutoral but is there anything that you suggest that might help with the process?




Probably the most difficult thing about the combat manager is to realize that you're not scripted (like using a wizard) to do things in a particular way.
Whilst you can have the computer fully manage initiative and turn sequencing, you can also just as easily completely ignore all that and simply execute creature actions as and when you want.
If you do proceed in such an "ad-hoc" fashion, I recommend that perhaps you at least use the "Next Round" button to start new rounds. That way you'll at least catch expired conditions and effects (eg. as with spells), and let RPM clear them out for you.

The same philosophy carries right through to XP calculations at the end of an encounter. Whilst RPM can automatically work out character level average, encounter level, and award XP, you canalsoedit in any figures directly (manually), and get the calculations.

You'll find a "support/forums" section in my website if you need any further questions added, or need issues addressed.


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## fx_fyre (Dec 20, 2005)

*dnd3e.exe - Entry Point Not Found*

The procedure entry point @Httpsrv@THttpServer@SetDocDir$qqrx17System@AnsiString could not be located in the dynamic link library D20COMP_PAS.BPL

I get this message when I attempt to open RolePlayingMaster.  I downloaded the file "RPM_install_4_5_8b" on 12/19/05 and installed it.  But when I attempted to open the program I got this message.  Reinstalling didn't help.  What do I do?


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## Duncan Haldane (Dec 20, 2005)

fx_fyre said:
			
		

> The procedure entry point @Httpsrv@THttpServer@SetDocDir$qqrx17System@AnsiString could not be located in the dynamic link library D20COMP_PAS.BPL
> 
> I get this message when I attempt to open RolePlayingMaster.  I downloaded the file "RPM_install_4_5_8b" on 12/19/05 and installed it.  But when I attempted to open the program I got this message.  Reinstalling didn't help.  What do I do?




Post to the support forum on the (RPM site), then go to the support forum link on the left side.

That's much more likely to get you help than posting here


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## heruca (May 16, 2006)

Hi, Luke.

I've compiled a list here of all the virtual tabletop software I could find (scroll down to near the bottom of the page). RPM is on the list already, but I just wanted to confirm...is it correct to classify RPM as a virtual tabletop?

My other question is, in your opinion, can RPM and Battlegrounds be used in conjunction? I was thinking that perhaps RPM could be used to do all the gama data tracking and campaign management stuff, and Battlegrounds could be used for graphically depicting everything on the virtual battlemat.


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