# Gaming with the kids ...



## Archade (Sep 11, 2006)

Hey all,

My kids (Alex and Katie) and their friends (Patrick and Alliya) are chomping at the bit to be gamers, and I thought I'd share with everyone what does and doesn't work in my experience as I try to run something for them.

My family and I recently attended Gen Con, and my son and I went to the seminar "Getting Your Kids Into Gaming", which was well-run and enjoyable for both of us.  Previous to this, my son has already burned through the 3E Basic Box adventure (the Black Dragon version), has figured out D&D Miniatures reasonably well, and is now ramping up for the big hurdle of the Player's Handbook (which is going to take a while, since he's 8 and his reading skills and attention span just aren't quite there yet).  I must admit the preview of the new Basic Game at the seminar seems to be geared towards a group of independant 12 year olds vs the previous version, which is friendlier to an adult running a game for 8 year olds, but I came away from the seminar with some really thoughtful ideas.

The seminar run by WOTC gave me several great ideas which I liked.  They suggested the use of tactile items such as miniatures, poker chips or pennies for hit points, and expendable index cards for spells.  Thy also suggested to keep the adventure simple and get the kids' input on the kind of monsters and goal of the adventure they would like.  

I didn't agree with all the suggestions that the seminar had, such as throwing rules out the window in favor of imagination, allowing kids to fight human-like monsters like goblins or orcs, or allow the characters to die, but I see why they made these suggestions with kids in mind, and I'm keeping them handy in the back of my mind if need be.

After the seminar, my son has been bugging me constantly to run a game for him again, so here's my experience thus far ...

Last night, I built custom character sheet for the kids that is simple and with big boxes (see attached), based on the Black Dragon Basic Box character sheet.  I talked with the kids about what kind of characters they wanted (Alex wants a Half-Orc Barbarian, Katie wants an Elf Druid, and their friend Patrick wants a Half-Elf Sorcerer).

We created characters tonight for Alex and Katie (about an hour each), and here's what I've streamlined for the kids:

* We picked a miniature first so they had a visual reference
* simplified alignment (good, neutral, evil)
* simplified skill choices (they had to pick class skills and automatically got 4 ranks in each)
* used the basic equipment packages in the PHB, except they picked their own weapons
* I gave them a few feat choices to choose from the PHB to keep it simple.

Things I learned tonight:

* My kids learned a whole bunch of new words (illiteracy, empathy, etc)
* The math on rolling 4d6, keep the best three took a while but was worth it
* They wrote out their own characters, and copied hard words from the PHB
* Showing them pictures of armor and weapons helped them choose

I still need to write out the Druid and Sorcerer spell index cards (keeping them simple, removing wierd choices, and color coding them by level).

I asked them all over the last few weeks what sort of adventure they want, and they told me they want to fight zombies and find the king's ruby and return it to him for a reward.  I'll be using the Dungeon Tiles and the Basic Set Tiles to build a 5-8 room dungeon they can explore.  I plan on including 1-2 simple traps, some zombies, some spiders, a rat swarm (so the druid can shine), and finishing up with maybe a Vargouille.

I should be running the game in the next week or so, and I'll keep you informed how it goes... if any one wants to chime in with their experience or ideas, I'd enjoy that.


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## Cassandra (Sep 11, 2006)

Thanks for posting that character sheet; it may be very useful.

My 13-year-old decided he wants to be a GM, but I told him he would have to run games for his brother and sister. (The grown-ups already have plenty of GMs.) Yesterday he helped the 7-year-old roll up a character for Castles and Crusades, which we picked up at GenCon. He analyzed the system as "halfway between First Edition and d20", which was about how we had pegged it, and he would rather try to run that than 3.5. We'll see how long it is before they do anything more with it.


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## SorvahrSpahr (Sep 11, 2006)

it's good to know there is a new generation of players being born


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## VoidAdept (Sep 11, 2006)

Indeed. It's good to see others bringing their children into the fold. It makes for some nice family bonding.

I recently started running a game for my twelve (almost thirteen) year old son and my wife, and it's already making for some entertaining moments we can share. He's already started to develop a healthy dislike for monstrous spiders and howler wasps!


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## Varianor Abroad (Sep 11, 2006)

That's very cool. A nice "prize" for the kids that surreptitiously solves cheating issues are those one inch sized d20s. I found that girls like to kill things as much as boys. Be incredibly patient with the rules - I like to offer incentives for them like a miniature of their own if they can correctly remember an important (read: complicated) rule.

The most fun part is the excitement. These are kids exercising their imagination in a fantasy world. Their heads are full of images and they want to see them come to life in some way. So whenever you can say 'yes' instead of 'no' to something cool, it's a good thing. Conversely, saying 'no' to something time-wasting is better than 'yes'.

Congrats! Good luck. Enjoy.


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## JoeBlank (Sep 11, 2006)

Nice work. This is the first I have heard of the Gaming with Kids seminar. I'd love to hear more about it.

I game with my sons, ages 8, 6, and 4. As you might expect, things are even more simplified than your ideas. For starters, we are using a C&C/D&D hybrid, basically the simplest parts of each. 

Also, I am ignoring alignment for now. I expect the PCs to do good deeds, and so far they have lived up to that. 

One issue I have noticed is religion. It seems that a good percentage of the modules out there involve evil cultists or some sort of religion-based issue. I'd rather not deal with fictional gods when gaming with young children. So I have eliminated the cleric class altogether. Instead, I am letting sorcerers pick from any spell list. So a healing-themed spellcaster is easy to create, without dealing with the deity and such. For now, we just have a DMPC healer, which is also helpful for offering in-character suggestions to keep them on the right path. And I can fudge the healer's remaining spells as the plot dictates.

As you mentioned from the seminar, I'm not including much risk of PC death either. 0 hp is knocked out. When they get older I'll take the kid gloves off, but not now.

On edit: I almost forgot to mention, several months back I posted in the Gygax Q&A thread that I was thinking of gaming with my kids when they got older. His response is in my .sig, below. Now I am even more indebted to him for the countless hours I have enjoyed playing the game.


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## Archade (Sep 11, 2006)

The religion issue is a good point!  

I have presented the cleric class as a "healing spellcasting" class, and none of the kids wanted to play it, but if they chose it, I think I would tackle the issue - the kids have watched Disney's Hercules, and one of them reads Thor comics, so they have a concept of mythological gods, I'd just have to keep it in that perspective, somehow.


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## Tolen Mar (Sep 11, 2006)

It may not be well known, but there are a few of us trying to usher in the next generation.

My eight year old son Luke is back in Drogo's shoes (as I posted a couple months ago).  We've been playing a lot of alternate games, including several sessions of a d20 modern game.  Now were are in Eberron, and planning for the long run.  The little bugger is a chip off the old block.  When I was younger, all I ever wanted to play was a halfling, now that's all he plays (and I have explained all of the different choices he could make), moreover, everyone agrees that he has hobbits..er, halflings down pat.

One thing I've noticed is that for Luke, its all about rolling dice and fighting things.  He gets bored during the RP parts if it doesnt directly involve his character, and when the GM lets him go and RP, he tends to crowd everyone else out.

Needless to say, pacing is key.  Moreso than with an adult group, the GM for younger players needs to balance 'screen time' for each player.  Next week, we are going to be dungeon crawling most of the session as we try to recover a stolen macguffin (once I dispose of a body...in Sharn...without being noticed...).  There should be plenty of opportunities for Drogo to kill things, which means more combat, and an all around happier eight year old.

Another thing I've decided is I wish I had his luck.  Drogo started the game with 10gp in his purse.  when we went to the skyblade tournament that afternoon, his betting on the underdog earned him 50 (over several rounds, it was uncanny.  The GM assigned a base 30% chance for his fighter to win, and the dice favored him every time but one).  If I could tap into that somehow, none of my characters would ever die...


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## megamania (Sep 11, 2006)

I have been running a game on and off for my two kids for nearly a year now.  We began at level one and now are nearing level 3.

I tried to alter the game rules as little as possible.  How I _present_ the game is very different.  They both want to play regularly and my son is trying to DM to his friends.  His rules as hardly recognizable but they are having fun so I don't bother with it much.

hey- level 10 halflings could in theory defeat a twenty CR dragon.....  

The advice given above I mostly did.   I asked about characters and used figures as a visial aid.  Plots began as rescue the noble's daughter from the goblin thieves or locate this criminal.   Now we are progressing to where they are the "body guard" types for explorers in Eberron (see Khyber Crawler SH).  Its simple and thus fun.


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## Treebore (Sep 11, 2006)

I started letting my daughter play when she was seven. She is now 14 and her two brothers are 10 and 13. We play as a family now and it has been great. My wife and I also use it as a forum in which to teach them about very tough and ugly issues via their characters. We think that "distance" of it being dealt with by their PC's rather then themselves has been very helpful. Plus being able to bring the bad guys to justice is also a big help.

We have even dealt with their characters getting married, buying homes, earning refgular incomes, having childrn, caring for their children, being a responsible parent and spouse, etc...  Our kids have been "enlightened" on a lot of things they didn't understand about why we did things the way we do as parents.

They understand now, not completely, but a heck of a lot better than we ever did at their ages, and they make obvious effort to behave better, and to control their "teenagerness".

They are even a lot better about cleaning their rooms and the house!

Most importantly it has been fantastic family time. How many families do you know where the parents spend 6 to 8 hours per weekend, often two days per weekend, in dedicated playtime with their kids? Our kids like spending time with their mom and dad, two of them are teenagers! They would rather play C&C with us then go over to friends houses and do who knows what, and they even prefer to play with us then spend time on the PS2!

I think it has made us a very "tight knit" family. My wife and I know we are a much closer family than she and I came from. Plus it gives our kids avenues to talk, even about real life stuff. I strongly suggest parents really encourage this kind of play, and that both parents play too. The family rewards should make it worth while even to those spouses who insist on disliking the hobby they tolerate.


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## WayneLigon (Sep 11, 2006)

Archade said:
			
		

> The religion issue is a good point!
> 
> I have presented the cleric class as a "healing spellcasting" class, and none of the kids wanted to play it, but if they chose it, I think I would tackle the issue - the kids have watched Disney's Hercules, and one of them reads Thor comics, so they have a concept of mythological gods, I'd just have to keep it in that perspective, somehow.




Edith Hamilton's classic _Mythology _ book might be a good intro to the entire concept. It covers Greek, Roman and Norse myths. The reading level might be slightly high for them at that age, but there are dozens of sourcebooks for the classic gods and heroes that are aimed right at their reading level.


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## Blackwind (Sep 11, 2006)

My partner and I recently babysat a couple of six-year-old girls.  They were getting a little bit bored, so I handed them a box of D&D Miniatures and a big bag of dice.  They had a blast just setting up the dice in different patterns and structures, and arranging the miniatures all over the floor.  Kids are naturally drawn to the minis and and the weird, colorful dice.  I'm sure dungeon tiles would help too.  When I first got into gaming at the age of ten, I was very impressed with the elaborate terrain set-ups in the back room of my FLGS - they were for Warhammer, of course.  Interestingly enough, girls seem to be just as excited about this sort of thing as boys.  

Our own daughter is only 6 months old, but my partner Beth is coming along nicely; she has a 2nd level Pixie in our Eberron game.  We're definitely looking forward to family game nights.  By the way:

6-year-old girl: "Why is the dice bag made out of chains?"
I: "That's chainmail.  Knights used to wear armor made out of it."
She: "But why is the dice bag made out of it?"
I: "Um... I don't know."   :\


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## Varianor Abroad (Sep 12, 2006)

Good point on the religion. I don't run a game with alignments or clerics usually (since I started with Arcana Evolved for my family - plus elves). 

You should also encourage your children to help you paint miniatures and terrain! Start simple and have fun!


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## Barendd Nobeard (Sep 12, 2006)

The games sounds like it will be great.  Enjoy it!

But, I have two small concerns:



			
				Archade said:
			
		

> a rat swarm (so the druid can shine), and finishing up with maybe a Vargouille.




Swarms are deadly in third edition.  A swarm nearly TPK'd a group of first level PCs I was playing with once (all very experienced players).  A couple of PCs brandishing torches finally (and only with much luck) prevented that.  How do you think a druid will shine against a swarm?  What if the druid is out of spells?  Remember, a swarm only has to occupy your space to do damage.  It's a "creature" that can auto-hit multiple PCs each round.

A vargouille flies.  Make sure they can all be effective against flying creatures.  It's very frustrating when you can't even attemp anything during combat.

Good luck with the game!


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## Archade (Sep 12, 2006)

By rat swarm I meant a group of rats, not the swarm monster -- something that will allow the druid to use wild empathy (hopefully she'll think of making friends with the rats).  That'll encourage diplomacy.

Vargouilles are creepy but fragile.  It should go down from a thrown dagger or an arrow reasonably well.  I'll add two skeletons to the final battle as a distraction, I think.

Thanks for the input guys!


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## rom90125 (Sep 13, 2006)

This is a great thread!  My nine-year-old twins (boy-girl) want to play and initially I was planning on starting them with C&C / AD&D modules, but, I've decided to start them with a stripped down 3.5 game.  I too worried about religion and the whole killing sentient beings but I decided to take others advice and make the cleric a healer class and only have the kids go after rats and similar creatures.  I will post updates here if others are still interested.

One question.  My son's best friend lives next door, and that boy has shown real interest in wanting to participate, but, I am finding it difficult to address the topic with his parents even though we get along.  I'm concerned about the negative image D&D still gets to this day, and I know that some of our neighbors would view introducing D&D to kids akin to practicing 'evil'... Because of this concern, I had to explain to the kids tonight that other people might view their participation in D&D as evil and sinful.  My main arguement will be that D&D is no different than the xbox 360 games these parents let their kids play...games my kids are not allowed to play.  Have any other parents that allow their kids to play encountered anything along these lines?


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## Treebore (Sep 13, 2006)

If they have internet access and they are christians send them to the Christian Gamers Guild website. If they see that other Christians play it and even have a website dedicated to it they will probably be more receptive. Of course this particular site is Catholic, so that may or may not be helpful.

BTW, I am non-denominational, and I am not trying to insinuate anything about anyones particular beliefs, so no flame war or debate about religion, that is not allowed on this website. Go to Circus Maximus if you want to discuss such things.


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## gunter uxbridge (Sep 13, 2006)

One of my players asked earlier this year if his 14 year old step-son could join our game.  As the DM I had no problem with it, and the other guys went along with it just fine.

When it came time for game play,  I just kept things a little simpler for the younger player.  I tended to present him with choices instead of just asking "What do you do?"  I kept his barbarian character involved in combat where he could shine, and presented NPC encounters in a way that was straightforward.  It has worked out pretty well, and when we start up again in October after the summer break I expect him to be there at the table with my other players.


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## Thunderfoot (Sep 13, 2006)

I can look at this thread and think "I remember when..."   My son started playing around the age of 5.  Yep, 5, regular rules, no stripping them down (AD&D 2E, even).  He started small (literally - forest gnome fighter) and branched out as he went.

He turned 17 in May, he is now an active part of my current campaign and is playing a very surly, but effective dwarven cleric...  My advice for all of you is to take the time to explain things, help them understand what is involved when a character dies and help them bring the world to life.  Occasionaly they'll do something really dumb, don't chide them, punish them (in game of course) and they learn not to do it again.  Use the game to help with real world explainations of world affairs and make sure they read things other than just sourcebooks.

Vocabulary will increase and mental accuity will skyrocket.  I hope all of you experience the joy of bonding that I have had with my family.  I am currently helping two other sets of parents introduce their kids (11 & 13) into gaming.  Q (my boy) is right there helping them understand the rules and when to jump in and when to "wait for it."; yes the future of gaming is in good hands.


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## JoeBlank (Sep 13, 2006)

Treebore said:
			
		

> If they have internet access and they are christians send them to the Christian Gamers Guild website. If they see that other Christians play it and even have a website dedicated to it they will probably be more receptive. Of course this particular site is Catholic, so that may or may not be helpful.




Thanks for the heads-up, Treebore. The site looks interesting.


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## Archade (Sep 18, 2006)

OK, I managed to scarf up an old black dragon Basic Set (better for younger kids, I think), and I've written out a select number of druid spells on index cards for Katie to use, and I've got poker chips to represent hit points ...

I'm writing the adventure today or tomorrow.  I'll post the adventure here for commentary, and any ideas for non-combat obstacles would be appreciated ...


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## nyrfherdr (Sep 18, 2006)

Cool thread.
My son is now 11.  He's been playing actively for about 2 years in our mostly adult group. (There is another boy.  A teenager)
There needs to be lots of action! for him to stay interested.
I just started GMing an all kids game with my son and his friend.  We're trying to find a couple of more players.  My son is becoming quite the geek. 

Non-combat obstacles (remember they don't have a history of gaming like you do)

1.  A locked door.  Trapped or not.
2.  A trap like almost anything from Indiana Jones.
3.  A pit (especially if it isn't just an obstacle... There's something at the bottom)  Don't make it hidden.  It is just an obstacle to cross.
4.  A room/corridor that is higher than the room they are in.
5.  A talking statue with riddles (there are tons of simple riddles)
6.  A puzzle lock on a door (a number puzzle, tic tac toe, almost anything could work here)
7.  A room filled with water (preferably with a key or something important at the bottom)
8.  A room filling with smoke from several holes in the wall.

Game ON!


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## rom90125 (Oct 14, 2006)

Archade said:
			
		

> OK, I managed to scarf up an old black dragon Basic Set (better for younger kids, I think), and I've written out a select number of druid spells on index cards for Katie to use, and I've got poker chips to represent hit points ...
> 
> I'm writing the adventure today or tomorrow.  I'll post the adventure here for commentary, and any ideas for non-combat obstacles would be appreciated ...




Just a bump.... anything new to add Archade?


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## Archade (Oct 16, 2006)

Well, I've got two characters rolled, trying to get together with my friend's son for a third, and I've mostly written out the sorcerer and druid spells on index cards.  I may try to type up the index cards and make them available at www.dmtools.org as well.

But sadly, no time lately.


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## Zaukrie (Oct 16, 2006)

I DM for a group of 9 and 10 year olds (and one other dad). The biggest problems:

they have no D&D context like us long time players, so they forget to do obvious things, like search the bodies and take the loot.

it is very difficult to get that many people together timing wise, so they forget rules and the basics of the game.

I roll behind the screen, I don't need character deaths just yet (only in their 2nd/3rd dungeon).

You need constant action, I don't even bother with much role play, they get plenty of that playing with our minis and their legos when they polay on their own.

Spells and special abilities are almost impossible for them to remember, especially buff spells. I'll be using my combat pad (great tool) to track that for/with them.

There is an old Dungeon magazine with an adventure entitled fountain of health. It is easy to update/add more encounters, and comes with a large map of a ruined shrine. I highly recommend it (I added an ettercap and lots and lots of spiders).

Minis and maps are almost a must.

edit: let me know if anyone wants me to post on how things are going/suggestions. Right now they are going through the sunless citadel (the kids wanted to talk to Meepo, the adult playing the chaotic barbarian wanted to kill him, the kids talked him into not killing. The youngest child drank the "dragon breath" potion, and then promptly forgot about it in the next encounter, one I had made much more difficult by adding a spellcasting goblin {the youngest plays a nearly 3rd level fighter based on Regdar - the other players chant "cleave, cleave, cleave" as he attacks puny guys like goblins}).


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## glass (Oct 18, 2006)

SorvahrSpahr said:
			
		

> it's good to know there is a new generation of players being born



Quite. I'm hoping my niece will want to play D&D with 'Uncle James' when she is older. She is only 8 months at the moment, though, so that's a way off yet.


uncle glass.


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## Bardsandsages (Oct 18, 2006)

The beauty of d20 is it is at it's heart a very, very simple game.  Roll a d20, add bonuses, you are done.  I have run games with my niece, who just turned 12.  The only thing I did differently than my normal games was make sure the adults kept the "adult" talk to a minimum.  I helped her come up with an elf fighter character, because she wanted a sword and she wanted to kill stuff.

I'm not a rules lawyer to begin with, but I do think that it's important NOT to throw the rules out the window with kids, at least the core basic rules.  Kids need to explore their imagination, but they need to learn how to do so within set guidelines in order to develop problem solving.  

So my niece was a fighter, and her mother played her sister.  In the first session, things got a bit out of control combat wise because two of the party had a terrible night with rolls.  So her mother's character died.  I went into this dramatic description of the scene, and asked her what she wanted to do.

"Um, can I loot her stuff?" was the reply.

I was so proud it brought a tear to my eye.


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## solkan_uk (Oct 18, 2006)

My daughter's still a bit too young for this (err, she's 3 months), but I've been slowly converting my 7 year old nephew.
I've been going for a tack of boardgames getting increasing more RPGy. So we started out on the D&D boardgame (since it only cost £5 from a discount shop) and now we're taking our initial steps into Warhammer Quest.

I intend to start him on D&D at some point, though since I only tend to see him once a fortnight it's slow going.


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## Rel (Oct 18, 2006)

I've pimped it in other places but it's worth mentioning here:  Consider getting a dungeon crawl boardgame for kids.  The one I specifically recommend is Descent by Fantasy Flight Games.

It is a bit pricey ($80) so see if you can find it on sale, but you get a lot for that money.  It comes with 80 miniatures including around 20 PC's.  Each PC has their own card that serves as a sort of "character sheet" and each of the monsters has a little card that details its stats at various power levels.  It also has these snap together dungeon tiles that let you make corridors and rooms in almost any configuration you can imagine.  Plus, TONS of counters that signify everything from wounds and webs to flames and pits.

It is designed as a competitive boardgame with the PC's versus the "Overlord" (and with a group of adults or older kids it is really fun) but if you toss that aspect and just play it more as a straight up RPG, it really works well in my opinion.  The dice mechanic is simple and elegant.  There is magical treasure to be had.  And you can even add on a very easy skill advancement system with almost no effort.

I got this game in January of this year and we had a ton of fun with the boardgame aspect.  I did not anticipate that my daughter (5) would be so enthralled with it and took to playing it immediately.  It was a big help in teaching her counting and adding skills.  And now she has taken to wanting to be the "Game Master" and I have to say that she's not half bad at it!  She's a little Monty Haul but hey, we all went through that phase as kids, right?


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## beldar1215 (Oct 18, 2006)

I run a game for 10-16 year olds at my FLGS and have had the same experiences as many others here. Most weeks I have 9 players. Boy is it hard to keep them focused on the game sometimes. One thing I'm having a hard time dealing with is if I should let PC's die. I'm kind of doing things on a case by case basis. I've had a couple of the older kid’s loss their PC's and they have been fine with it. I had one loss his Snake familiar last week and he sat at the table and cried. I'm going to pull him aside this week and talk with him about it. Any ideas of the best way to handle this situation?


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## clarkvalentine (Oct 18, 2006)

I run _Faery's Tale_ from Firefly Games for my kids, ages 4 and 5. It's wonderful.


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## grimwell (Oct 18, 2006)

rom90125 said:
			
		

> One question.  My son's best friend lives next door, and that boy has shown real interest in wanting to participate, but, I am finding it difficult to address the topic with his parents even though we get along...  Have any other parents that allow their kids to play encountered anything along these lines?



Ask the parents if you can invite him. If you ask them first and let them decide if the kid is free to play in the game. Then you are keeping the parents not only informed, but empowered. I'd also suggest being ready to explain the basics of the game if they really don't know.

I'm starting a game for my kids this winter (ages 9, 6, and 4) and talked to the neighbor boys parents (he's also 9) and just told them in a matter of fact that I my children wanted me to play D&D with them and wanted to know if the neighbor could play too. Yes, I felt an ounce of trepidation, but I didn't let it stop me. You can't break stereotypes if you live within them. They answered that yes they would love it and their kid is very welcome to play on the weekend.

My next step is to invite the rest of the homeschool kids to play. We run a "Games Week" party in November, but stay away from RPG's because it takes too much time to play them (and we get a lot of board games in on that day), but I intend to offer the familes a chance to see roleplay in action (through participation). They are mostly Christian, conservative, and don't like things like video games, but I'm not going to let that stop me.

One key thing to remember is that 'roleplay' is a mainstream word. Not just for nerds and shrinks -- I've had to roleplay in more than one corporate environment. People understand the value of it, so you don't have to sell roleplaying as a fun positive option... you just have to not sell yourself as an evil corrupter of children. Make it safe, have other adults around (invite the parents to watch for instance), and kid friendly. From there you are gold and anyone who has a problem, does so in a literal sense. The problem is them.


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## nyrfherdr (Oct 18, 2006)

Beldar,
My advice is to talk to the boy, since he's had time to deal with it, he'll probably be fine.  The key is to respond to his feelings, not your own.  If it's important to him, make it important, if it isn't don't.  Don't read too much into it.  Kid's emotions run high sometimes.

If he knows that he can get another familiar, maybe even a better one, then he has something to look forward to and has learned an important lesson within the context of the game.  It may be important to stress that it's a game and has ups and downs.

Otherwise, just roll with it.  If you provide him some moments to shine, it will outweigh the setbacks of his character.

I hope that helps.
Game ON!


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## Rel (Oct 18, 2006)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Beldar,
> My advice is to talk to the boy, since he's had time to deal with it, he'll probably be fine.  The key is to respond to his feelings, not your own.  If it's important to him, make it important, if it isn't don't.  Don't read too much into it.  Kid's emotions run high sometimes.
> 
> If he knows that he can get another familiar, maybe even a better one, then he has something to look forward to and has learned an important lesson within the context of the game.  It may be important to stress that it's a game and has ups and downs.
> ...




That's probably better advice than my "keep killing his familiar every session until he get's used to it" idea.


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## dshai527 (Oct 18, 2006)

Rel said:
			
		

> That's probably better advice than my "keep killing his familiar every session until he get's used to it" idea.




Just because your DM is still doing it to you Rel doesn't make it okay for the next generation...  

And yes I should be writing my Story Hour rather than making fun of you.


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## WizarDru (Oct 18, 2006)

Rel said:
			
		

> I've pimped it in other places but it's worth mentioning here:  Consider getting a dungeon crawl boardgame for kids.  The one I specifically recommend is Descent by Fantasy Flight Games.




I would also keep an eye out for the out-of-print "Heroquest", the UK D&D Board game (and expansions) through e-bay or Amazon and the Heroscape board game.  All of them are pretty good lead-ins to straight-forward D&D, as well.


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## Amazing Triangle (Oct 18, 2006)

beldar1215 said:
			
		

> I had one loss his Snake familiar last week and he sat at the table and cried. I'm going to pull him aside this week and talk with him about it. Any ideas of the best way to handle this situation?




Give this kid the opportunity to get a new familiar in like a week or a couple of days.  This is what I have always believed about familiars.  They take too long to get back.


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## Rel (Oct 19, 2006)

dshai527 said:
			
		

> And yes I should be writing my Story Hour rather than making fun of you.



It writes the story hour or it gets the hose again!


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## Aurora (Oct 19, 2006)

Rel said:
			
		

> It writes the story hour or it gets the hose again!



Tell him Rel!


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## rom90125 (Oct 21, 2006)

Ok, my kids (9 yr old twins; boy/girl) rolled up their chars tonight.

My son is a human Ftr1 (18str 16dex 16con 13int 15wis 13cha)
My daughter is a human Rog1 (16str 18dex 16con 15int 13wis 13cha).

Tomorrow night Mom will roll up her human Brd1 and we will begin adventuring in the sewers below the city, slaying dire rats, alligators, and whatever else gets in our way!


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## Krel (Oct 21, 2006)

solkan_uk said:
			
		

> My daughter's still a bit too young for this (err, she's 3 months), but I've been slowly converting my 7 year old nephew.
> I've been going for a tack of boardgames getting increasing more RPGy. So we started out on the D&D boardgame (since it only cost £5 from a discount shop) and now we're taking our initial steps into Warhammer Quest.
> 
> I intend to start him on D&D at some point, though since I only tend to see him once a fortnight it's slow going.




I find this a bit scary.  Maybe its just the word "convert"...

I think it's nice to introduce your family members into D&D, as long as no one is pressing a relative to do so.


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## megamania (Oct 21, 2006)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Beldar,
> My advice is to talk to the boy, since he's had time to deal with it, he'll probably be fine.  The key is to respond to his feelings, not your own.  If it's important to him, make it important, if it isn't don't.  Don't read too much into it.  Kid's emotions run high sometimes.
> 
> If he knows that he can get another familiar, maybe even a better one, then he has something to look forward to and has learned an important lesson within the context of the game.  It may be important to stress that it's a game and has ups and downs.
> ...




Solid advice.  Well written and true.


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## Tomovasky (Oct 21, 2006)

Not to be rude, but I have neaver got why it is so had to game with kids. I am 21 of age, so it may get harder as I get older. My group  Has me, my buddy(21), My brother(18), his friend (17), my other brother(11) and his to friends (15,10). 
   Now as a rule the group has always been about me my brothers and a friend for each. I thought my youngest brother how to play when he was 6. my brothers have never been any good at reading though they pick up reading the sheats quickly. 

The trick, Besides patience is to just play the game that you all love. there is a reason that you love this game and your kids will follow. 
  As a second though the "matcher"  stuff, swearing and sex. Well if your a parent of a good uncle or older brother, you are parable use to sensering your self around them any way. So that should not be to hard. 
Just like in greyhawk swich the brothels for feasthalls or even Elfin tea house(if a daughter is playing this is a good place for you to use thouse tea party skilll and teach her how to role-play, though with the cool elfin fell a son my not be to bord and get in to the role playing as well.)

well any way just some thought I hope it works, for as with every thing eals kids are the ...well you know the rest. Keep those dice roling and may you always role crits.


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## Wombat (Oct 21, 2006)

Tomorrow I am running a game for my niece (9) and my nephew (10).

Simple dungeon, clean layout, 2nd level characters, simple monsters -- almost everything is direct, physical confrontation, with a few traps and hidden doors.

I have done this for them a couple times before.  They love it...

...as long as my niece can find some pretty clothes in the treasure and my nephew can find at least one peice of "really cool" leather...


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## Kylas (Mar 15, 2008)

beldar1215 said:
			
		

> I run a game for 10-16 year olds at my FLGS and have had the same experiences as many others here. Most weeks I have 9 players. Boy is it hard to keep them focused on the game sometimes. One thing I'm having a hard time dealing with is if I should let PC's die. I'm kind of doing things on a case by case basis. I've had a couple of the older kid’s loss their PC's and they have been fine with it. I had one loss his Snake familiar last week and he sat at the table and cried. I'm going to pull him aside this week and talk with him about it. Any ideas of the best way to handle this situation?



  Snake!?! Snake!?!   SNAAAAAAAAAAAAAAKE!

                     Mission Failed


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## Ipissimus (Mar 15, 2008)

[/nostalgia]

Brings back memories. Played my first Fighter when I was 6 and graduated to my first Paladin not long after that waaaay back in 1E AD&D. DMed for the first time not long after for my cousins (ages 6 or 7 to 12) and got them interested in the game... good times.

Admittedly, my first Fighter was little more than a bodyguard to my Mom's Cleric. Considering that the people we played with were 10-20 years older or slightly more, there wasn't too much I could contribute to that game. But still, I became an avid reader of the books, including the Monster Manuals and Deities and Demigods, which introduced me to mythology, philosophy and books all at the same time.

[/nostalgia]

From experience on both sides of the equasion, I have to disagree on the religious front. If your kids can handle a cartoon (Dragonball Z, Aladdin, Hercules, etc.) and real life, they can handle the fact that not everyone at every point in time is or was <insert your religion here>. They can also handle the fact that not everyone is nice.

Not saying that you should jump into mature elements feet first, of course (heck no), but gods, goddesses, angels, demons and devils are good fodder for 'morality plays' in DnD, even for kids. I know I loved them, and the kids I've introduced to the game handle it fine. Particularly squashing Demons (and they love that part).

Still, I don't think the educational value of RPGs and be overestimated. What other hobby exercises imagination, creativity, problem solving, english and basic math while introducing elements of philosophy, history and practical knowledge?


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## doghead (Mar 16, 2008)

*a pitch, of sorts.*

general - gaming with kids

I really enjoyed reading this thread. I found it quite inspirational. I did wonder how 12-13 year olds would handle the complexities of the game. Then I remembered I was 12-13 years old when I started playing AD&D at school with a bunch of other 12-13 year olds. From there we went on to Traveller, Cyberpunk and Warhammer, all without any adult assistance.

I don't have kids. Indeed, I barely game much these days. What I do is all done pretty much here at ENWorld as PbP. So I have recently turned my energies to getting my adventure ideas from my head into written form. This thread gave me the idea of trying my hand at plotting some adventures for young adults largely still learning the game.

My initial thoughts on the matter were thus:

1) core rules only as that already include a lot of material to absorb. But use the rules largely as is. Some really good ideas out have been mentioned for making things more manageable for younger kids. Its been ages since I have been into a game store (virtual or real). Perhaps stuff like this is already out there. If not, it seems like it could be a good market for someone.

2) keep it simple - common monsters and situations. These are the things they will be expecting and familiar with. The use of familiar concepts will lower the barriers to entry and make engagement easier. 

3) remember that old is new again. Remember the first time you popped a door with _knock_, or disarmed a trap. Another way to think of this is to incorporate lots of opportunities for the character to use their abilities to achieve things.

4) stick with a generic setting. Make it as easy as possible for DM's to plug and play into their existing settings.

Initial plan of action:

1) get some feedback on the above from those gaming with kids on the above.

2) rough out some simple plot outlines.

3) work up the outlines into adventures (largely) ready to run.

I am thinking along the lines of a collaborative product. I much prefer working with a group of people. You get a variety of ideas and perspectives. You have others to bounce ideas off. You get to pick peoples brains. The finished products would be available to everyone for free.


So, any thoughts on the above? 

What plots have you used that have worked?

doghead
aka thotd


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## Flynn (Mar 16, 2008)

I've started bringing my 10-year-old with me to the local D&D Meetups and RPG Meetups. We've played a few low level games together of D&D, as well as a few Savage Worlds scenarios. He really enjoys this time together, especially when we both play under another DM. He does suffer somewhat from being the only kid in a group of adults (mostly with being heard or when coming up with ideas for actions sometimes), but obviously it isn't stopping him from having a great time, because he keeps wanting to come back and play again.

I am considering trying to do a kids' game at a public place sometime, to see if we can get games for families or at least for kids his age going in the local area. I figure a public place like the FLGS would be good to help everyone feel at ease, and would help advertise the fact that there's a kids' game going on. I just have to find time to fit it into my schedule.

With Regards,
Flynn


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## thedungeondelver (Mar 16, 2008)

I've been running *D&D* ('74 edition) for my five year old daughter.  She loves it.  We also started an offshoot campaign in *B2 KEEP ON THE BORDERLANDS* using the J. Eric Holmes' *D&D* ruleset.

It makes me very happy when she bounces in to the office and says "Daddy, can we play dee an dee?"


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