# (off topic) Make EN World a pay site?



## Ghost2020 (Oct 29, 2003)

Maybe it's time to make EN WOrld a pay site?
Like the messageboards and other features? Maybe $5-10 a year or something like that?
Just a thought.
I'd pay, easily.


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## diaglo (Oct 29, 2003)

and spam everyone's email just like all the other pr0n sites do.


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## EricNoah (Oct 29, 2003)

I would be against a pay site where it is manditory to pay to participate.  Of course the other alternatives are a) EN World generates enough cash as a business (banners, merchandise, etc.) to stay afloat, or b) people volunteer to support it for as long as they feel they're getting something good out of it.  No model -- subscription, business, or charity -- guarantees longterm viability, it's all a crapshoot, so to speak, but the recent outpouring of generosity suggests that Russ has a mandate to try to keep the status quo as is because clearly lots of folks love it the way it is.  

I'm going to start moving our posts that are "about EN World" over to Meta so General can get back to discussing RPGs.


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## Krug (Oct 29, 2003)

Pay site? No way.


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## Aaron2 (Oct 29, 2003)

I say not to pay making EN World a pay site since even a $1 yearly fee will limit the number of people participating in the forums. Fewer people means fewer ideas and fewer responces to my ideas. That is bad and would take away the biggest advantage this site has to other similar ones. 


Aaron


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## DaveMage (Oct 29, 2003)

I like how it's been set up.

A free site, but if you contribute then you get perks.

I'm not sure that this will work long term, but I like it.


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## Berandor (Oct 29, 2003)

I wouldn't want a pay site.
However, what I could see:
A meter on the homepage, showing how much money was donated each month, and how much is still needed to pay for server costs.
So it's no virtual "Yeah, I should pay them again, someday" thing, but "Hey, they only got 250$ so far. Best I go send my 10$ in to make it to 400" or "Well, this month's paid for. Phew."

Berandor


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## EricNoah (Oct 29, 2003)

Berandor said:
			
		

> A meter on the homepage, showing how much money was donated each month, and how much is still needed to pay for server costs.




Now that's a great idea!


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 29, 2003)

A pay site? How'd we get new members? If happen upon a site that costs 
money, I expect most people do the same thing I do, hit the 'Back' button.


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## TiQuinn (Oct 29, 2003)

Berandor said:
			
		

> I wouldn't want a pay site.
> However, what I could see:
> A meter on the homepage, showing how much money was donated each month, and how much is still needed to pay for server costs.
> So it's no virtual "Yeah, I should pay them again, someday" thing, but "Hey, they only got 250$ so far. Best I go send my 10$ in to make it to 400" or "Well, this month's paid for. Phew."
> ...




What Eric said.  That's an awesome idea!


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## Macbeth (Oct 29, 2003)

I Like Berandor's idea. This site would never work as a pay site. I know that when I first started comming here I didn't have a credit card, or enough money to do much. Now, i threw in my two bits for the 'save ENWorld' fund, and I earn my Community Supporter account as a news hound. If I had seen this was a pay site when I first arrived, i would have never joined this wonderful community.


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## Teflon Billy (Oct 29, 2003)

I agree with both *Berandor* and *Viking Bastard* on both their points.


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## Dimwhit (Oct 29, 2003)

I, too, am not hip on the pay site idea. If that happened, we'd immediately lose a good number of people, and much of what makes this a great site is the large number of people and ideas.

I think the currently way is best. For free, you have access to most everything. Pay to be a CS, and you get extra perks.



> I wouldn't want a pay site.
> However, what I could see:
> A meter on the homepage, showing how much money was donated each month, and how much is still needed to pay for server costs.
> So it's no virtual "Yeah, I should pay them again, someday" thing, but "Hey, they only got 250$ so far. Best I go send my 10$ in to make it to 400" or "Well, this month's paid for. Phew."



I could see a problem with this, though the general concept is good. For one, hosting fees aren't the only cost. So people may only contribute until the hosting is paid for. And I don't think Morrus would want to detail out all the expenses on the main page. Then what happens if more money is collected than what the main pages states is the operating costs? Then Morrus is going to have to detail every penny he receives for the site. In his place, I wouldn't want to do that.

I'm not sure if there's a workaround. I think I'd rather Morrus just give occassional updates and let us know if funds are running low or not.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are all kinds of solutions out there that will work. As long as this site keeps going, I'll be happy.


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## Teflon Billy (Oct 29, 2003)

I agree with both *Berandor* and *Viking Bastard* on both their points.


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## Dimwhit (Oct 29, 2003)

I, too, am not hip on the pay site idea. If that happened, we'd immediately lose a good number of people, and much of what makes this a great site is the large number of people and ideas.

I think the currently way is best. For free, you have access to most everything. Pay to be a CS, and you get extra perks.



> I wouldn't want a pay site.
> However, what I could see:
> A meter on the homepage, showing how much money was donated each month, and how much is still needed to pay for server costs.
> So it's no virtual "Yeah, I should pay them again, someday" thing, but "Hey, they only got 250$ so far. Best I go send my 10$ in to make it to 400" or "Well, this month's paid for. Phew."



I could see a problem with this, though the general concept is good. For one, hosting fees aren't the only cost. So people may only contribute until the hosting is paid for. And I don't think Morrus would want to detail out all the expenses on the main page. Then what happens if more money is collected than what the main pages states is the operating costs? Then Morrus is going to have to detail every penny he receives for the site. In his place, I wouldn't want to do that.

I'm not sure if there's a workaround. I think I'd rather Morrus just give occassional updates and let us know if funds are running low or not.

But that's just me. I'm sure there are all kinds of solutions out there that will work. As long as this site keeps going, I'll be happy.


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## Teflon Billy (Oct 29, 2003)

I've mentioned it in other threads, but will repeat it here: I like the idea of a yearly "Telethon" type arrangement.

Though I don't think any decision should be made any time soon.

So far this crisis has generated a storm of ideas, good and bad, and I think that there is a very real chance of overreaction if Morrus tries (or is expected to try) to get everything into place ASAP.

we've given him some Breathing space...let him breathe for awhile.


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## Creamsteak (Oct 29, 2003)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I agree with both *Berandor* and *Viking Bastard* on both their points.



I'll agree with Teflon Billy on his point that Berandor and Viking Bastard have good points.

But I also think that it would make more sense reverse-engineered. A complimentary counter that says, "Enworld has $12,000" that ticks down as the money gets spent on site needs and important community stuff like Gencon. I think that our community wouldn't ever be willing to let our funds drop below $2000 ever again...

Then again, I think having said counter would possibly bother people...


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## HellHound (Oct 30, 2003)

I agree with Creamsteak on his point of agreeing with Teflon Billy on _his_ point that Berandor and Viking Bastard have good points.


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## the Jester (Oct 30, 2003)

I like the idea of a meter on the front page; and I agree totally with Hellhound et. al.


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## Darrin Drader (Oct 30, 2003)

If this became a pay site, all that would happen is that it would only be frequented by the same talking heads rather than the diverse group of frequent posters and noobs that drop in now. Even the regulars would drift off eventually and the community would dwindle.

No thanks. There are better solutions.


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## Eosin the Red (Oct 30, 2003)

I agree with Hellhound who agrees with Creamsteak on his point of agreeing with Teflon Billy on his point that Berandor and Viking Bastard have good points.

That said, personally a meter type thingy is fine but I would like to see the search function opened to everyone. Keep the custom titles for donations but the rest should be made available _*if it does not cause a problem!*_.

A weekly neck massage for a random member would be nice. Perhaps occasional tickets to the theater?


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## Umbran (Oct 30, 2003)

Ghost2020 said:
			
		

> I'd pay, easily.




Rather than simply agreeing with others, I'll give a bit of reasoning.  

You'd pay, because you like the place.  How'd you get to like it?  You wandered in and tried it.  If the place were a pay site, you couldn't just wander in and have a go at it, so we'd have a substantial barrier to new members.  One of the strengths of the place is it's openness.

As for a cash-counter.  Nice idea, if Morrus had a personal accountant that could be trusted to go over the books every day.  The thing would have to be updated frequently or it'd be misleading.  So you're asking Morrus to do a notable extra bit of paperwork.


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## DaveMage (Oct 30, 2003)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> A weekly neck massage for a random member would be nice. Perhaps occasional tickets to the theater?




I'll support that!


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## Grazzt (Oct 30, 2003)

Baraendur said:
			
		

> If this became a pay site, all that would happen is that it would only be frequented by the same talking heads rather than the diverse group of frequent posters and noobs that drop in now. Even the regulars would drift off eventually and the community would dwindle.
> 
> No thanks. There are better solutions.





Yep- agreed. Pay site is not the way ENWorld needs to go.


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## Zappo (Oct 30, 2003)

Since it seems that hosting will be paid for at least the next full year, I think that we have to be careful not to make rushed decisions. Personally, I am against turning this into a pay site. It means placing a fairly high barrier to entry, regardless of the actual amount. Since this is a community site, a big part of its value is in the number of people frequenting it, so this barrier could easily backfire.







			
				Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> I agree with Hellhound who agrees with Creamsteak on his point of agreeing with Teflon Billy on his point that Berandor and Viking Bastard have good points.



I agree.


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## Darkness (Oct 30, 2003)

diaglo said:
			
		

> and spam everyone's email just like all the other pr0n sites do.



 Not to forget loads pop-ups if you as much as open one page on the site.


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## BSF (Oct 30, 2003)

I thoroughly disagree with making EN World a pay-only site.  My reasoning is simple.  I wouldn't be here now if it had been a pay-only site when I started checking the forums out.  For a long time I have lurked and then posted on somebody else's generosity.  Everyone that was here before me helped create an environment where I wanted to keep coming back.  Now that I have gotten off the bench, and thrown in some money to help pay the bills, I have no problem with other people coming into the site for free. 

Wouldn't it be kind of hypocritical for me to feel any other way?

If they like the place, they will stick around.  They will get hooked on the community feel, on our varied sense of humor, on our self-policed and moderator enforced civility, on the wonderful story hours, the heated rules debates, and even the OT posts.  Then, they will want to give back to the community.  

At least, they will if it is an easy process and there is a periodic reminder on why it is important to contribute to the pot on occassion.  Which is why I too support a fund drive to bring in new community supporters and make sure we are covered for costs of running the site.  

As Teflon Billy has said, let's give Morrus room to breath and figure out what he wants to do.  But, we should keep tossing ideas out there as well.  Morrus won't have any idea what we are open to if we don't say anything.


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## Crothian (Oct 30, 2003)

Not only should EN World become a pay site, but those willing to join should have to fill out a questionaire that has to be approved by a select group of people.  In fact, everyone who posts here now should have to fill the questionaire as well.  This way we have a firm control on who is allowed on the site and who is not.  

Morrus has stated many, many times he has no intention of this ever becoming a pay site.  And this site really doesn't need any help on having others think us more elitist then we really are.


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