# Media trashing on DnD again



## rootbeergnome (Sep 26, 2004)

Hey everyone, I was just studying and heard someone on the television say "Dungeon Master's guide, Monster Manual, Player's Handbook" and so I started watching.  It was a movie on Lifetime called "Cruel Doubt" about a kid who murdered his step father because he was too deep into Dungeons and Dragons and Drugs.  Some inspector on the movie was supposedly reading from the dungeon masters guide and read "the players sneak into the overlord's castle and kill him in his sleep by stabbing him to death, the more times they stab him the more experience points they get."  I was outraged at this.  I can just see some conservative parents sitting at home this afternoon watching this movie and immediately taking away their child's favorite game and the book burning begins again.  I think this is ridiculous, and just when i thought the trashing of DnD was over too.  I think we should all write in to Lifetime and tell them that we do not appreciate this kind of trash talking about our game.  There is a link to write them HERE Anyway, what are your feelings on this?  Did anyone else happen to see the movie?  It was called "Cruel Doubt" and had gwyneth paltrow, david arquette and some others in some early performances, the movie was made in 1997.  Anyway, just thought I would rant a bit, and share my feelings.  
Thanks,
  RB Gnome.


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## Krieg (Sep 26, 2004)

The real question is....what were you doing watching LIFETIME?!?!?!

You're not a member of the Oprah Bookclub too are you?








Seriously though, if you decide to write the network...make sure your letter is clear, polite and succint. Nothing will get ignored faster than an angry message board style rant.

(Not implying that is what you planned, just a general tip for anyone who wants to follow this course of action)


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## Crothian (Sep 26, 2004)

The movie is like 12 years old isn't it?


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## Lhorgrim (Sep 26, 2004)

I think that the movie was based on an actual murder in GA in the 1980's.
I saw the movie when it came out in the early 90's, and I thought it was pretty bad.
I did not read the book, so I don't know if D&D was actually mentioned in court, but I would bet that the writers who adapted it for TV decided to "sex it up" by pointing a finger at role playing.
Rootbeergnome, I wouldn't be too worried about anybody watching this movie and suddenly starting to hate D&D.  Most of the people who would enjoy this flick already think the game is evil, and they have since the 80's.
By the way rootbeergnome, I graduated from WKU in 94, you wouldn't be a Hilltopper would you?


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## JPL (Sep 26, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> The movie is like 12 years old isn't it?




http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0104031/

Yep.

Rootbeergnome, is this really worth your time?  

If it were a brand-new movie, I'd be with you on this, but hasn't the media moved on to video games?  

Tabletop gaming seems downright wholesome, compared to Everquest addiction.


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## Tyler Do'Urden (Sep 26, 2004)

Yeah- between EQ, first-person shooters, and Marilyn Manson, the media has better scapegoats these days.

Anyway, I saw that awful movie many years ago- as I recall, what they didn't mention was that in the true story the "gamers" were also cocaine addicts as well...


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## DonaldRumsfeldsTofu (Sep 26, 2004)

Despite boasting itself to be an alternative feminist channel, Lifetime is in fact very reactionary and intolerant. I'm not entirely sure why you're wasting energy on it. Just ignore it. 

I solved the problem of the media by getting rid of my television.

Of course, this topic is boardering on discussion politics.


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## Krieg (Sep 26, 2004)

DonaldRumsfeldsTofu said:
			
		

> Despite boasting itself to be an alternative feminist channel, Lifetime is in fact very reactionary and intolerant.



Must....restrain....from....sarcastic....comment....


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## Neblan (Sep 26, 2004)

*What i think.*

I think that D&D gets a bad image in the media is because of these lovly dovey parents who try to controll the way there children grow up without violance, images of drugs, sex ...ect. Then when there child dose somthing wrong because of drugs they blame it on D&D because there child goes to a game every friday.


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## Plane Sailing (Sep 26, 2004)

DonaldRumsfeldsTofu said:
			
		

> Of course, this topic is boardering on discussion politics.




And naturally we wouldn't want to do that, would we?

I think this discussion probably lives in 'off-topic" so I'll whizz it over there.

Cheers
Plane Sailing (Mod)


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## Aeric (Sep 26, 2004)

If you really want to write a letter about a movie that's hurting our pasttime, I hear that a second D&D movie is in the works....


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## Algolei (Sep 27, 2004)

Aeric said:
			
		

> If you really want to write a letter about a movie that's hurting our pasttime, I hear that a second D&D movie is in the works....



NNNNNNNNNOOO!!

You...you _&@#$^&#!!_  I had just finally succeeded in blocking that from my memory!

 Weeks of therapy down the drain....  Well, looks like it's suicide for me again.*





*Moe, _the Simpsons_


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 27, 2004)

Algolei said:
			
		

> NNNNNNNNNOOO!!
> 
> You...you _&@#$^&#!!_ I had just finally succeeded in blocking that from my memory!
> 
> ...



WAIT!, Do not do that...here, let me help you

*Bring in Mind Flayer*

Hold still, he will take away all the bad memories...


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## BlueBlackRed (Sep 27, 2004)

> If you really want to write a letter about a movie that's hurting our pasttime, I hear that a second D&D movie is in the works....




Yeah, it'll be horrible. But I hear it will have Paris Hilton in it.
And hey, I really liked that last movie I saw her in.


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## Gnarlo (Sep 27, 2004)

BlueBlackRed said:
			
		

> Yeah, it'll be horrible. But I hear it will have Paris Hilton in it.
> And hey, I really liked that last movie I saw her in.




Bah! It was worse than the D&D movie; everyone know Githyanki don't have blond hair.


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## Guilt Puppy (Sep 27, 2004)

rootbeergnome said:
			
		

> Some inspector on the movie was supposedly reading from the dungeon masters guide and read "the players sneak into the overlord's castle and kill him in his sleep by stabbing him to death, the more times they stab him the more experience points they get."  I was outraged at this.




Man, me too. That totally misrepresents the game: What DM would reward his players for being _less_ efficient? The Satan Scout guidelines _clearly_ state that a player only earns the Assassination Merit Badge if the (good-aligned) overlord is killed cleanly in one strike.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 27, 2004)

Krieg said:
			
		

> Must....restrain....from....sarcastic....comment....



FWIW, I feel your pain.  

On-topic, my reaction to all this is ... meh.

To this day, FBI still profile serial killer as someone who is most likely to play RPG and/or violent video games, which is just one of many signs.


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## Stone Angel (Sep 27, 2004)

I was very much younger when this came out. My mother largely due to the influence of my grandmother would never let me play. I had convinced her to buy me a couple of books from a rummage sale, because I said I liked the art. My mother saw this show and promptly through them out.

I loathe this movie, although are there any links to the actually news story. I am curious to how the local media actually portrayed it.j

The Seraph of Earth and Stone


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## BOZ (Sep 27, 2004)

rootbeergnome said:
			
		

> Some inspector on the movie was supposedly reading from the dungeon masters guide and read "the players sneak into the overlord's castle and kill him in his sleep by stabbing him to death, the more times they stab him the more experience points they get."




now that's just ridiculous.  you could get to epic level from a single kobold if that were true.  

DM: "So... now that the kobold is dead, what do you do?"

player: "I stab it again!"

DM: "OK, that's 5 more Xp for you.  What do you do now?"

player: "I stab it again!"

DM: grumbles... "OK, 5 more XP.  What do you do now!"

player: "I stab it again!"


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## Turanil (Sep 27, 2004)

DonaldRumsfeldsTofu said:
			
		

> I solved the problem of the media by getting rid of my television.




Really? Can I congratulate you? (I also get rid of my TV, but fortunately can watch my nice DVDs on my computer).


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## Turanil (Sep 27, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> To this day, FBI still profile serial killer as someone who is most likely to play RPG and/or violent video games, which is just one of many signs.




A serial killer is also someone who is most likely to have five fingered hands.


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## MonsterMash (Sep 27, 2004)

Tyler Do'Urden said:
			
		

> Anyway, I saw that awful movie many years ago- as I recall, what they didn't mention was that in the true story the "gamers" were also cocaine addicts as well...




Of course maybe media executives think doing cocaine is cool unlike playing RPGs.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 27, 2004)

Turanil said:
			
		

> A serial killer is also someone who is most likely to have five fingered hands.



And most likely male, although there are the few occasional females.

I'm 2-for-2. Wait'll they get a load of me.


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## ASH (Sep 27, 2004)

BlueBlackRed said:
			
		

> Yeah, it'll be horrible. But I hear it will have Paris Hilton in it.
> And hey, I really liked that last movie I saw her in.


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## Psionicist (Sep 27, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> now that's just ridiculous.  you could get to epic level from a single kobold if that were true.
> 
> DM: "So... now that the kobold is dead, what do you do?"
> 
> ...




This is the funniest thing I've read today. Kudos.


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## Desdichado (Sep 27, 2004)

DonaldRumsfeldsTofu said:
			
		

> Of course, this topic is boardering on discussion politics.



Well, your reply is boardering [sic] on discussion [sic] politics, but the thread wasn't before that.  Way to go.

EDIT:  Besides, the movie's based on real events, so it's hardly a media slam on the game.  Blame the sick perps who committed the crime for associating it with the game, not the media.  http://www.freejbupchurch.com/JBU_Appeal.pdf


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## Ashwyn (Sep 28, 2004)

Turanil said:
			
		

> A serial killer is also someone who is most likely to have five fingered hands.








The exception that proves the rule?


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## Turanil (Sep 28, 2004)

Ashwyn said:
			
		

> The exception that proves the rule?




 ??


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## Prince of Happiness (Sep 28, 2004)

Lifetime: Television for Victims


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## BOZ (Sep 28, 2004)

I am Inigo Montoya.  You killed my father.  Prepare to die.


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## Saqhara (Sep 28, 2004)

Quick! Unleash the rodents of unusual size!


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## Angel Tarragon (Sep 29, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> The movie is like 12 years old isn't it?



Yes, it is. I just IMDB'd it and found out that it came out in 1992. So Lifetime aired the movie, so what! The [expletive deleted] hit the fan about gaming a long time ago, but it only referred to DnD and LARPing. The majority of us that sit down at a table to game know the difference between fantasy and reality. Cripe! I mean when the movie came out, DnD was only second edition. *If* the RPG bashing started up again, I honestly think that White Wolfs World of Darkness would be more of a target than DnD. I mean, DnDers play heroes most often, not vampires, werewolves or other beastly and undeadish creatures. Just my thoughts.


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## Ranger REG (Sep 29, 2004)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> *If* the RPG bashing started up again, I honestly think that White Wolfs World of Darkness would be more of a target than DnD. I mean, DnDers play heroes most often, not vampires, werewolves or other beastly and undeadish creatures. Just my thoughts.



It's wishful thinking but _D&D_ is a more recognizable brand symbol for RPGs.


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## Keeper of Secrets (Sep 30, 2004)

D&D gets mentioned in court a lot.  I think that maybe a defendant thinks they could at least try to shift the blame to something else.  Though, if a defendnat mentions it in cout, I can't blame the media for picking up on it as it is a countr-culture thing.  It would be like someone mentioning they like Rocky Horror Picture Show or do those Polar Bear contests (where they swim in feezing cold water in Wisconsin in Decenber).


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## BOZ (Sep 30, 2004)

i like to play D&D while reinacting rocky horror in freezing cold water.  is something wrong with me?


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 1, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> i like to play D&D while reinacting rocky horror in freezing cold water.  is something wrong with me?



 There is something wrong with you, citizen.  Please report to the nearest execution booth.


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## Ranger REG (Oct 1, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> i like to play D&D while reinacting rocky horror in freezing cold water.  is something wrong with me?



Only if you're not wearing a nipple ring under your bustier. Hey, if you're gonna do it, you might as well go all the way.    

Beats playing _D&D_ in a nudist colony.


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## Ashwyn (Oct 1, 2004)

Turanil said:
			
		

> ??



It's Count Rugen from the movie The Princess Bride. He has six fingers on his right hand and is a very bad man.


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## Angel Tarragon (Oct 1, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Beats playing _D&D_ in a nudist colony.



 LOL! LOL! LOL!


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## Greatwyrm (Oct 1, 2004)

Anyone watching Lifetime for factual information probably can't be reached anyway.


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## Angcuru (Oct 1, 2004)

Greatwyrm said:
			
		

> Anyone watching Lifetime for factual information probably can't be reached anyway.



This is mostly true.  Besides, every human being on the show is either the ideal/most beautiful man/woman you've ever seen or is the most vile, despicable human being on the face of the earth.  I've watched a lot of stuff from it in my sociology classes, and I never once saw a man who was not a wifebeater or the 'ideal' man I.E. Fabio w/ a Ph.D. in bowing down to a woman's will. 

The only channels on TV where you can get FACTUAL information are The History Channel and The Discovery Channel, _maybe_ Animal Planet.

And we all know that news networks twist all the facts to make everything exciting and all that, and generally are less trustworthy than a weasle in a chicken coop.

Anyway, as long as something is known to exist in this world, you can be sure that someone, somewhere in America, had devoted their life to bringing it down.  

That goes for Porn, Rap, Heavy Metal, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party, Stem Cell Research,  Barbie Dolls, Tennis Shoes, Crystal Meth, Plastic, Coathangers, False Teeth, Dung Beetles, Soap Scum, Stainless Steel Cutlery, Guys named Ted, Wood, Body Armor, Electricity, Toilet Seats, Glass Eyes, Fire, Ice, Wheat,  that white stuff that acumulates in the back of your mouth when you're very thirsty, Ted Kennedy, Chocolate, Nair,  Copper, Razor Blades, Cardboard, Dan Rather, France, Me, You, Kuala Lampur, Meat, Soccer, Syncronized Swimming, The Empire State Building Lost and Found, Existential Egoism, Monty Python, Frosted Mini-Wheats, Not Having Hair, Having Way Too Much Hair, Cloning, Koala Bears, Fingernails, Gingivitis, Athlete's Foot Medication, Alcohol, Unsweetened Iced Tea, Saccharin, 440 Stainless Cheap-Ass Replica Katanas, Dirt, Girls named Shatikwa, Pillows, Latex Paint, Organic Dyes, Oil Paint, Carbohydrates, Hondas, Dice, Oxygen, Hatchets, Water, Sulfur, The Olsen Twins, Wallpaper, and of course, harmless hobbies about which they are uninformed and make judgement about anyway and decide it's worth hating.


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## Greatwyrm (Oct 4, 2004)

Angcuru said:
			
		

> Anyway, as long as something is known to exist in this world, you can be sure that someone, somewhere in America, had devoted their life to bringing it down.
> 
> That goes for Porn, Rap, Heavy Metal,...




I'm sorry, I stopped reading here.  Was MTV on the list?  They destroyed my attention span.  That's bad, right?  Maybe they should be closer to the top, for people like me.  I mean, seriously   OOOH LOOK!  A PUPPY!


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## Prince of Happiness (Oct 4, 2004)

Angcuru said:
			
		

> That goes for Porn, Rap, Heavy Metal, The Democratic Party, The Republican Party, Stem Cell Research,  Barbie Dolls, Tennis Shoes, Crystal Meth, Plastic, Coathangers, False Teeth, Dung Beetles, Soap Scum, Stainless Steel Cutlery, Guys named Ted, Wood, Body Armor, Electricity, Toilet Seats, Glass Eyes, Fire, Ice, Wheat,  that white stuff that acumulates in the back of your mouth when you're very thirsty, Ted Kennedy, Chocolate, Nair,  Copper, Razor Blades, Cardboard, Dan Rather, France, Me, You, Kuala Lampur, Meat, Soccer, Syncronized Swimming, The Empire State Building Lost and Found, Existential Egoism, Monty Python, Frosted Mini-Wheats, Not Having Hair, Having Way Too Much Hair, Cloning, Koala Bears, Fingernails, Gingivitis, Athlete's Foot Medication, Alcohol, Unsweetened Iced Tea, Saccharin, 440 Stainless Cheap-Ass Replica Katanas, Dirt, Girls named Shatikwa, Pillows, Latex Paint, Organic Dyes, Oil Paint, Carbohydrates, Hondas, Dice, Oxygen, Hatchets, Water, Sulfur, The Olsen Twins, Wallpaper, and of course, harmless hobbies about which they are uninformed and make judgement about anyway and decide it's worth hating.




You forgot water flouridation!


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## thatdarncat (Oct 4, 2004)

*groans* hazardous to read at work!


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## Angcuru (Oct 4, 2004)

Glad to be of service.


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