# D&D stats for Jesus?



## Alzrius (Aug 8, 2005)

The title sums this one up. Are there D&D/d20 stats for Jesus out there? I know various articles in _Dragon_ and other supplements have statted up major theological figures in many different real-world religions, but this one seems to be the glaring exception that no one wants to talk about (I assume to avoid the roving eye of Jack Chick and co.). However, it seems to me that if D&D can handle having stats for Satan (_Dragon_ #28, "The Politics of Hell"), it wouldn't destroy the game to have those for Jesus also. So...anyone know of any?

I know this is going to be a fine line to walk, but I think we can discuss this without any substantive talk about religion. If you know of any such stats, mention them here. We'll probably also start talking about what stats he would have if someone were to try to make them. Fair enough. But let's neither laud nor decry any religion or belief here. If we keep it to the stats, we should be fine.


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## KenM (Aug 8, 2005)

Locked thread in 5,4,3,2 ...


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## Glyfair (Aug 8, 2005)

I agree this thread is going to be locked pretty soon.  No stats for Jesus, however, Testament from Green Ronin does have stats for Moses, David, Daniel, etc.


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## Crothian (Aug 8, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> However, it seems to me that if D&D can handle having stats for Satan (_Dragon_ #28, "The Politics of Hell"), it wouldn't destroy the game to have those for Jesus also. So...anyone know of any?




That was what 20 years ago?  It was also in a magazine that does not restrict talks of religion as its biggest rule.  There is a fine line in this things, but you need to look behind you to find it as you passed it by.


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## Crothian (Aug 8, 2005)

Glyfair said:
			
		

> I agree this thread is going to be locked pretty soon.  No stats for Jesus, however, Testament from Green Ronin does have stats for Moses, David, Daniel, etc.




A great book by the way, I really liked it so much I had to get two!!


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## Abstraction (Aug 8, 2005)

Jesus is a munchkin


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## KenM (Aug 8, 2005)

Abstraction said:
			
		

> Jesus is a munchkin





 No, Jesus did not kill enough to be a munchkin. High level yes, but not a munchkin.


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## Tonguez (Aug 8, 2005)

First Alzrius can you tell me why? why would stats for Jesus be required?

*Anyway*

Jesus was a carpenters son - so *Expert* with a high CHA score
and a _VERY special _ template (half-celestial doesn't cut it)


ps Abstraction thats the kind of helpful comment that will _help_ get the thread closed


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## Dakkareth (Aug 8, 2005)

Commoner5.

Or were you thinking stats for Jesus Christ (cleric with some sort of proxy template) or Christ (DvR 16+)?

I'm not talking religion, I'm making mechanical distinctions .


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## Rostek (Aug 8, 2005)

Without discussing the nature of Jesus and God- 
I'd say Divine Bard/Cleric possibly being classified as a demigod or avatar of God (some very powerful celestial template or something).
Very high mental scores, and some ranks in Craft and profession denoting his previous occupation


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## the Jester (Aug 8, 2005)

expert/cleric, and later proxy.

High wis and cha.


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## Masquerade (Aug 8, 2005)

Favored Soul


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## kirinke (Aug 8, 2005)

Perhaps... Hmmm
Template could be called: Chosen of the Jehovah? I don't even know how he'd stat out in DND terms. In DND terms, back in biblical times, he'd probably have a divine rank of 0. Now, since he can count his worshippers in the millions, he'd be divine rank 16-20. His da is divine rank 21+ and on the level of AO.  

So, stat him out as a Divine rank 0 cleric/evangalist.


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## Lobo Lurker (Aug 8, 2005)

I find this sort of thread to be an affront to my sensibilities. Why would you need the stats of a real-world God (he's real to me, at least)? 

If you're going to trivialize Him, isn't it enough simply to put Him in your game.

Talk of fictional dieties is okay, but you really shouldn't try to stat out the deities of living religions ...none of thier followers will appreciate it. ...most of thier followers would not appreciate it.


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## Dark Jezter (Aug 8, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> I know this is going to be a fine line to walk, but I think we can discuss this without any substantive talk about religion. If you know of any such stats, mention them here. We'll probably also start talking about what stats he would have if someone were to try to make them. Fair enough. But let's neither laud nor decry any religion or belief here. If we keep it to the stats, we should be fine.




That's kind of an ironic statement, coming from a person whose very signature decrys religion.

Like most others here, I believe that this thread will be locked shortly.  But I would probably stat Jesus as an expert with a very special template; half-celestial isn't suitable by a long shot.


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## kirinke (Aug 8, 2005)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> That's kind of an ironic statement, coming from a person whose very signature decrys religion.
> 
> Like most others here, I believe that this thread will be locked shortly.  But I would probably stat Jesus as an expert with a very special template; half-celestial isn't suitable by a long shot.




Jezter, no bashing here ok? Very fine line walking. Hmmm. Mebbe a modified divine template or perhaps a chosen template of some sort would work. He definantly sounds  like he might have had spell-fire of some sort. Considering all of the things he did.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Aug 8, 2005)

I'm pretty sure he's one level lower than he used to be, though.


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## MrFilthyIke (Aug 8, 2005)

Let's keep the thread going downhill...

Jesus: Republican or Democrat?


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## Crothian (Aug 8, 2005)

MrFilthyIke said:
			
		

> Let's keep the thread going downhill...
> 
> Jesus: Republican or Democrat?




You shouldn't try to get a thread closed, or make a thread worse like that.


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## Cheiromancer (Aug 8, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Glyfair said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Does it have the stats for Elijah/Elisha?  They are two of the most high powered characters of the Old Testament.  I'd say, for instance, that 2 Kings 1:10 is an instance of the _flame strike_ spell, and 2 Kings 2:11 is the old _chariot of sustarre_.  I wonder if anyone ever asked Colonel Pladoh if he used the Bible as a source book?

Another relevant template would be "anointed one"  (maybe "God's anointed"?)  It would be an acquired template (or maybe prestige class, but I doubt it) that might be available for good kings, or for military heroes when the people are oppressed by foreign powers.  Although nobody would consider Jesus Christ a military hero, it would be a baseline for comparison.  Many of his contemporaries either thought he had the "anointed one" template, or was about to qualify.

If someone were to try a "New Testament" kind of RPG, they would probably have to explicitly say that some templates are retroactive; if acquired, history changes so that they were always there.  Fans of Sepulchrave's SH will recognize the mechanic.  But it is tricky to pull off, both mechanically and in character.

Let's see if the thread was locked while I was composing this reply...


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## Tuzenbach (Aug 8, 2005)

Who's Jesus?


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## Pbartender (Aug 8, 2005)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> I wonder if anyone ever asked Colonel Pladoh if he used the Bible as a source book?




Absolutely he did...  Half the cleric spells, especially those from 1st ed. were miracles taken straight out of both the old and new testaments.  Sticks to Snakes, Magic Stone, Water Walk, and Insect Plague are all good examples.


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## tarchon (Aug 8, 2005)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Who's Jesus?



That guy who works at Del Taco, I guess. I figure maybe Expert 1, since he seems to be some kind of low-level manager.


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## shilsen (Aug 8, 2005)

Low or mid-level expert (unexceptional hit points and about as prone to damage as an average human being) with a couple of spell-like abilities castable 3/day or some such number, e.g. Commune, Contact Other Plane, and Miracle.


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## The Lost Muse (Aug 8, 2005)

If you take source material such as Paradise Lost into consideration then, Jesus is able to singlehandedly defeat the entire army of Satan.  I would imagine that two sets of statistics would be needed; one for before the resurrection, and one for after.


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## Hypersmurf (Aug 8, 2005)

I have a vague memory that there was a thread on RPG.net a couple of years ago where people came up with stat blocks in assorted systems, including Feng Shui and Mutants and Masterminds.

I alos have a vague memory that the thread got closed there, too.

Sorry, guys.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)


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## CrusaderX (Aug 8, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> However, it seems to me that if D&D can handle having stats for Satan (_Dragon_ #28, "The Politics of Hell"), it wouldn't destroy the game to have those for Jesus also.




But Jesus isn't Satan's counterpart (for lack of a better word).  St. Micheal the Archangel would be Satan's counterpart.

Jesus = God.  He's definitely not comparable to a mere fallen angel.


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## Psionicist (Aug 8, 2005)

Edit: Apperantly this thread was supposed to be locked so I remove this.


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## Felon (Aug 8, 2005)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> Absolutely he did...  Half the cleric spells, especially those from 1st ed. were miracles taken straight out of both the old and new testaments.  Sticks to Snakes, Magic Stone, Water Walk, and Insect Plague are all good examples.




Flamestrike and blade barrier too, I believe. And of course, raise dead and resurrection. Wasn't there a spell specifically for parting large bodies of wather?

If we're saying a Jesus that's actually the son of God, then what's all this template talk? There are stats out there for demigods and rules for them in Deities & Demigods. As for class, I think he's about favored soul as favored soul gets, though don't ask me what God's favored weapon is.

OTOH, he could also be a rogue with high ranks in Bluff, Sleight of Hand (for pulling fish & wine out of nowhere), and Escape Artist (extracting oneself from a crucifix is a feat that awe Houdini himself).


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## HeavyG (Aug 8, 2005)

Timmundo said:
			
		

> I would imagine that two sets of statistics would be needed; one for before the resurrection, and one for after.




Kinda like Gandalf, then ?   

Tonguez convinced me. Low to mid level Expert. High mental stats.

I'd add Spell-like ability: Miracle at will. Caster level 20.

Oh, Neutral Good. Definitely NG.


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## Truth Seeker (Aug 8, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> The title sums this one up. Are there D&D/d20 stats for Jesus out there? I know various articles in _Dragon_ and other supplements have statted up major theological figures in many different real-world religions, but this one seems to be the glaring exception that no one wants to talk about (I assume to avoid the roving eye of Jack Chick and co.). However, *it seems to me that if D&D can handle having stats for Satan (Dragon #28, "The Politics of Hell")*, it wouldn't destroy the game to have those for Jesus also. So...anyone know of any?
> 
> I know this is going to be a fine line to walk, but I think we can discuss this without any substantive talk about religion. If you know of any such stats, mention them here. We'll probably also start talking about what stats he would have if someone were to try to make them. Fair enough. But let's neither laud nor decry any religion or belief here. If we keep it to the stats, we should be fine.




Folks, as much there are cries to close this thread, the quoting of the specific magazine issue ,does put the question in the fair zone. If it wasn't that...I would cry for closure as well.

Ah well, the evils of the double-edge question. As for the question, my thoughts, would be of a normal, skilled man of simple means....nothing more.

And leave it at that.


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## Altamont Ravenard (Aug 8, 2005)

Can I stat Jesus from the Big Lebowski instead?

AR


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## kirinke (Aug 8, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> But Jesus isn't Satan's counterpart (for lack of a better word).  St. Micheal the Archangel would be Satan's counterpart.
> 
> Jesus = God.  He's definitely not comparable to a mere fallen angel.




Jesus would either be an avatar or the son of god. He isn't god by any means at least in dnd terms. Lookit the avatar description, I forget where it is.


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## cheadberg (Aug 8, 2005)

Ummmm he is Jesus! Technically he could smite anyone at will. There is no way you can make stats for him. He is God! How can you give stats to someone who created the universe? (biblically speaking)


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## Hypersmurf (Aug 8, 2005)

Gah.  Missed the button somehow.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)


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