# Building a portable projector setup for RPG mapping



## OnlineDM (Aug 5, 2010)

Following in the footsteps of Sean Pecor and a GM named Ian from my friendly local game store, I plan to build a portable projector rig for RPG mapping (mainly D&D 4e).  I know that there have been several threads on this topic in the past, so I thought I'd share my experience as I go along in order to help others who might be considering this approach.

*Step 1: Background research.*  I read Sean's article about his setup, as well as threads from EN World where other people talked about their rigs.  I considered using a flat-panel TV (it would certainly be easier and possibly not much more expensive), but rejected that idea for three reasons:


It would be very heavy and tough to carry to a convention site
It would likely have its VGA input on the back, which wouldn't work if I wanted it to lay on its back on a game table
I would cry if someone were to spill a drink on it
I thus settled on the projector approach.  I talked to Ian at the local store about his setup, and I also talked to a buddy of mine from my bowling league who works with high-end video rigs for a living.  I learned that I was on the right track.

*Step two: Picking the projector.*  Based on my research, I knew I would need a short-throw projector - that is, one that can project a good image without having to be, say, six feet away from the projection surface.  Since I plan to suspend this thing maybe 30 inches above the tabletop, it had to be short throw.  I also wanted pretty good brightness.  My bowling buddy suggested I look for 4,000 to 6,000 lumens if I wanted to be able to use the projected map in a bright room (like a store or convention).  Well, the brightest I could find on a short throw was 3,500 lumens, and that would have been REALLY expensive.  Even 3,000 lumens was pricey, so I settled on 2,500 (eek).  I also, as you might guess, didn't want to spend crazy amounts of money - the less, the better.

I settled on the ViewSonic PJD5152.  It's short-throw, it's lightweight, it's 2,500 lumens and it costs $464 from Buy.com (via Amazon.com).  My only real concern is the resolution: 800 by 600.  I know that Sean and Ian both used higher resolution, but I'm just not convinced that I need it for a static map that won't be very big (I'm guessing around 3 feet in length, 2 and a half feet in height).  We shall see.  Buy.com apparently has a 30 day return policy, which I'm glad for!

The next steps, after the projector arrives, will be to test it out manually (holding it over a table) and then, if that goes well, building a rig to hold it (probably following Sean's example pretty closely).  I'll be using MapTool for the maps, since that's what I'm already using for my online games.  I'll extend the desktop on my laptop to stretch onto a second monitor (the projector), open my main session of MapTool on the laptop screen, open a second session on the projected screen and connect to the main session via that second session.  I'll then put the second session in full screen mode, and I'm all set!

Wish me luck!


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## Ferghis (Aug 5, 2010)

I one day hope to assemble something like this at home. While a Multitouch surface is probably the best medium for computer-assisted gaming, I'm not sure I'm ever going to be able to let my wife let me build one in the livingroom, and proper software support with a good, intuitive UI is still far in the future. So, yes, a projection is probably the best way to go about business. Since we're together on this, and that's where you are, I'll share my dreams with you.

This setup also needs two computers at the table. The DM's computer (which I'm guessing most folks have) and a second small one that players pass around so they can enter their character's actions and update the map. I really don't want this setup to burden the DM with additional work. Ideally, this second computer would be a tablet, but, again, cost is an issue, so a netbook might have to do. Obviously, this depends a lot on what resources the players already have.

The second computer could also show the initiative order, and any conditions that were known on the characters. Making the players input the conditions on monsters (and maybe even on their own characters) would free up a lot of the DM's time. If I were at home, and had the hardware capacity, I'd actually throw this info up on the flatscreen TV (this requires a third output from the DM's computer, or just yet another computer), just so everyone could see it all the time. Especially if I'm playing 4e, where conditions and initiative changes are plentiful.

Finally, this aspiration is why I've been tracking the hard work done by the MapTools community on automating attacks and powers. Which is why I want to mention the following regarding your work on MapTool Macros: thank you. I hope one day we get to the point where in 4e saves, regeneration, ongoing damage, and the like are done without player intervention (unless they want to roll the dice).


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## OnlineDM (Aug 6, 2010)

@Ferghis: Thanks for sharing your plans!  In my setup the players will continue to use minis to move around the map on the table, so there shouldn't be any need for them to deal with the computer.  They'll still roll dice for their own attacks, etc. They'll keep track of conditions on their characters as they usually would (little rubber bands on the minis, most likely).  For monsters, I'll be responsible for tracking conditions on their icons, which is pretty easy in MapTool.  I'm with you about wanting to see the day that the initiative tracker in MapTool keeps track of conditions that a save ends, ongoing damage, etc.

As for me, I'm moving on.  While I wait for the projector to arrive in the mail, I'm starting on...

*Step three: Planning the rig.  *When I went into this, I planned to build a rig like the one Sean Pecor put on his blog: a big cube made of tubular aluminum with the projector mounted at the top.  However, I realized that I might be able to get away with a simple tripod.  

There are more details and a crappy sketch on my blog, but the general idea is that the projector will sit on a little triangular platform some distance above the table (say, 30 inches) and the platform will be supported by three wooden legs.  

This would have the advantage of being very inexpensive (I spent seven dollars at the hardware store yesterday on what I think will be pretty much all the supplies I need for a simple version), quick to build and highly portable.

The main disadvantage I see with the tripod approach is that the legs might be more in the way for the players, though I'm honestly not sure about this until I try it.

What do you think?  Would a tripod get in the players' way of seeing the board and moving their minis?  Is there some other obvious problem with the tripod approach that I'm forgetting about?


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## IronWolf (Aug 6, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> I considered using a flat-panel TV (it would certainly be easier and possibly not much more expensive), but rejected that idea for three reasons:
> 
> 
> It would be very heavy and tough to carry to a convention site
> ...




All good points - especially one and three.  Two possibly as well, I think my TV has the VGA input on the side, but certainly not all do and I may be mistaken about where mine is. 



			
				OnlineDM said:
			
		

> The next steps, after the projector arrives, will be to test it out manually (holding it over a table) and then, if that goes well, building a rig to hold it (probably following Sean's example pretty closely).  I'll be using MapTool for the maps, since that's what I'm already using for my online games.  I'll extend the desktop on my laptop to stretch onto a second monitor (the projector), open my main session of MapTool on the laptop screen, open a second session on the projected screen and connect to the main session via that second session.  I'll then put the second session in full screen mode, and I'm all set!




MapTool is great.  Good idea on using the laptop and the projector as the second display to cut down on the number of computers you need at the table.




OnlineDM said:


> The main disadvantage I see with the tripod approach is that the legs might be more in the way for the players, though I'm honestly not sure about this until I try it.
> 
> What do you think?  Would a tripod get in the players' way of seeing the board and moving their minis?  Is there some other obvious problem with the tripod approach that I'm forgetting about?




I would just wonder how often the players might bump the tripod and possibly cause the map to shift during play.  Might not be an issue or if slight bumps don't cause much movement.


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## jodyjohnson (Aug 6, 2010)

I haven't been to a big con since we did our projector setup up 6 years ago.  Do convention organizers allow rigs of electronics in the halls for regular play?

For conventions, preprinted maps seem like a better plan between safety and ease of setup.  Especially since the sample area from Sean's rig is the same size as the WotC preprints.


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## JDragon (Aug 6, 2010)

Nice set up.

I have a permanent ceiling mount for my projector at home currently.

It has a native 800x600 res, and since I have vaulted ceilings I'm able to get a 30 inch by 40 inch image.  The large playing surface is nice, the one down side is that my 1 inch squares only have 25 pixels per side to work with.

I use photoshop to custom make/recreate all the combat maps we use. 

Sean's  set up nice, but still seems like a lot to haul for the set up.  The tripod idea sounds much nicer if you can make sure its stable and not interfering with  players space.  I look forward to seeing what you come up with and how it works.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks for the feedback, everyone - this is good stuff!

@IronWolf: Good point about the bumping.  I'm hoping that putting rubber feet on the bottom of the legs will keep the projector from shifting relative to the map.  It might wobble when bumped, but I'm hoping that it will settle back down where it was (so the minis won't have to be totally rearranged).

@jodyjohnson: I've checked with the person organizing Living Forgotten Realms events for TactiCon, and she tells me that the projector should be fine there.  I'm not planning on going to GenCon next year to run games or anything like that - just local cons and games in my local store (plus home games, of course).

@JDragon: You've made me very happy by saying that you're using 800 by 600 and are okay with it!  I'll be sure to chronicle the development of my rig right here on EN World as well as on my blog.


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## Ferghis (Aug 6, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> *Step three: Planning the rig.  *When I went into this, I planned to build a rig like the one Sean Pecor put on his blog: a big cube made of tubular aluminum with the projector mounted at the top.  However, I realized that I might be able to get away with a simple tripod.
> 
> There are more details and a crappy sketch on my blog, but the general idea is that the projector will sit on a little triangular platform some distance above the table (say, 30 inches) and the platform will be supported by three wooden legs.
> 
> ...



If I were doing it, I'd probably drop a bit more money in this part. That thing on top is worth a few hundred, so I'd rather spend, say $50 in securing it. Plus, I'd like to see fewer legs for players to knock around. I was wondering about the feasibility of using metal plumbing to create a solid metal base and a single pole on which to affix the projector. Possibly like so:







The frame below (the part with the two Xs) would be covered by appropriate projection film. Also, the cables should come out of the bottom of the upright pole. Ideally, that arm would pivot at the base for easier transport, but I would certainly privilege structural sturdiness over hinges.

This is NOT to knock your tripod idea. I'm just sharing my thoughts on what might work.


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## Ferghis (Aug 6, 2010)

I forgot to say: I do think using miniatures is better than making everything computer generated. But I do want the players to update the monster conditions and initiative. This can be done on paper too: it's nice if everyone can see it.


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## Tuft (Aug 6, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> Thanks for the feedback, everyone - this is good stuff!
> 
> @IronWolf: Good point about the bumping.  I'm hoping that putting rubber feet on the bottom of the legs will keep the projector from shifting relative to the map.  It might wobble when bumped, but I'm hoping that it will settle back down where it was (so the minis won't have to be totally rearranged).




Perhaps, to keep it more stable, you could use heavy, solid feet, as some long-armed office table lamps have (IKEA | Lighting | Table lamps | FORSÃ… | Work lamp). That would give it very low risk of both jostling and tipping over. (I've had some cast-iron lamp feet that weighed *tons*, but you don't have to go so far.)


Or clamp the feet to the table, as other lamps do: http://www.ikea.com/us/en/catalog/products/10018561

Another thing you could do if you have a tri- or quadro-pod is to put string or fishing line between the feet to make the legs more stable - the lower any such string or line is, the more it helps the legs to be stable, if it is kept tense by the contraptions weight and the angle of the legs.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 7, 2010)

@Ferghis: I'm happy to spend money on the stand, but I really want good portability if at all possible.  I worry that if the metal base that you sketched (cool sketch, by the way) would be heavy enough to hold the projector securely in place from that angle, it would be pretty heavy to carry.  Also, do you have any suggestions in a setup like that about how I would get the projector out over the middle of the table?  If the side of the projector were mounted right to the vertical pole as in the sketch, the lens would only be maybe 5 inches out from the side.  I'm open to suggestions!

I don't mind handling monster conditions myself - the players will still be able to see them on the monsters (in MapTool I have little icons appear over the monsters to show when they're bloodied, slowed, etc.).  As for initiative, I could have it show up on the map if I really wanted to, but I really haven't had any problems just running it myself and letting everyone know who's up next ("Okay, Alayne, it's your turn, Thorfin up next, and then the bad guys...").  But to each his own.

@Tuft: I wouldn't want to use heavy feet because, again, I want portability.  But clamping the legs to the table... that's an idea I like!  I'll have to give that some thought.  One issue to deal with is that I'll be playing at tables of varying sizes and thicknesses; if the tripod legs were right at the edge of one table (ready for clamping), they might be a foot into the center on another table.  I'm not quite sure how I'd handle the clamping in that sort of situation.  Still, I'm sure I could find a way to always clamp down at least one leg, which is a good start.  Thanks for the suggestion!

I'll admit that I don't quite follow you on how putting the fishing line at the bottom rather than near the top helps, but I believe you.  I worry that the line would get in the way, though, if it were down low.  It's worth experimenting with, but I'm guessing I'll want the cross-bracing for the legs to be at least a foot and a half above the tabletop so that it doesn't get in the players' way.

Great suggestions, all!  I'm always open to more ideas, too.  I plan to build my first prototype tomorrow (Saturday) and I'll share my progress here.


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## Tuft (Aug 7, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> @Tuft: I wouldn't want to use heavy feet because, again, I want portability.  But clamping the legs to the table... that's an idea I like!  I'll have to give that some thought.  One issue to deal with is that I'll be playing at tables of varying sizes and thicknesses; if the tripod legs were right at the edge of one table (ready for clamping), they might be a foot into the center on another table.  I'm not quite sure how I'd handle the clamping in that sort of situation.  Still, I'm sure I could find a way to always clamp down at least one leg, which is a good start.  Thanks for the suggestion!




To get portable weights, you can use plastic bottles. Travel with them empty and fill them with water when you arrive at the destination. Strap them to the bottom of the legs (or place them on top of broad, flat feet). Then you empty them again before you go back. Make sure the bottles are durable, seals tightly and straps on firmly and securely to avoid wobbliness and spills. A little more bulky than metal feet, but travels lighter.


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## Tuft (Aug 7, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> One issue to deal with is that I'll be playing at tables of varying sizes and thicknesses; if the tripod legs were right at the edge of one table (ready for clamping), they might be a foot into the center on another table.  I'm not quite sure how I'd handle the clamping in that sort of situation.




You don't have to attach the clamp directly to the foot. If you drill a hole through the leg, you can tie a piece of string from the leg the clamp, to bridge the distance from the foot's position to the edge of the table.


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## JDragon (Aug 7, 2010)

OD, you actually don't have to worry about getting the projector out to the middle of your image.

Most projectors are set up so that when they are on a table in normal use the bottom of your image is more or less even with the bottom of the lens and the image spreads up from the projector.

I hope that made sense.

So as a result, using the image Ferghis posted, having your projector right next to the support pole will not be an issue, because your image will go out from it.

Another thing to be aware of with set ups like this is if the projector is facing straight down you could end up damaging it.   This is because the hotest part of most projectors is the lens putting out all that light.  Normally if the projector is sitting on a table that heat goes up with no problem.  In the hanging set up that heat will go up through the projector, possibly causing damage over time.

You may be better off having the projector level with a mirror at an angle in front of it to direct the image down.


Just a few more thoughts for you.

If I thought my wife would let me get a second projector just for gaming I would be looking at doing a set up like this myself for when I do Cons.


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## FoxWander (Aug 7, 2010)

For portability you could also look into some kind of boom stand. It should be sturdy enough, since the boom won't have to project very far. You could use a water jug instead of a sandbag for the counterweight- which you could get or fill up wherever you're using it so you won't be carrying the extra weight. Then use a clamp to secure it to the edge of the gaming table for extra sturdiness.

You could probably even make your own boom mount setup using the same square aluminum tubing Sean did for his mount set-up. At any rate, I think some kind of good, sturdy boom mount would be a good compromise between portability and something that won't get in the way. Sean's setup probably works great but it seems like a bit much to be really portable (especially for taking to cons) and I imagine it still gets in the way a lot.


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## falcarrion (Aug 7, 2010)

I created a stand for my projector. I made it out of 1/2 inch metal pipe, a projector mount, and a heavy bar stool lid. This gives me the ability to switch the height by attaching different lengths of pipe togather. I can set it up to project forward and reflect off a mirror down on the table or add an elbow at the top so the projector projects downward. 

For the surface to project onto I just use a sheet of white foam core.

I'm working on an even more portable setup once my 3m pocket projector shows up next week.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 8, 2010)

I've moved on in my projector rig development.

*Step four: Build a prototype rig.* 

There are more details on my blog, but I've built the first prototype of the tripod I had suggested, using cheap and simple materials.






There are issues with it, of course, some of which have already been discussed here on EN World.  The hinges have some wobble to them, which I don't love (I'm going to try wrapping a little duct tape around them to see if that helps.  The legs do seem to get in the way of playing, at least a little bit.  And the whole thing feels less steady than I would like.

The steps I plan to take to improve this rig are:


Level off the bottom of the legs and attach bigger feet (4 inch square plywood) - perhaps clampable to the table
Attach some rubber to the bottom of the feet
Figure out a good, rigid bracing system instead of the rope - something that doesn't just collapse when you push the legs together
I'm especially looking for ideas on the last point.  I was thinking of something like a long hook and eye, but I can't find one long enough.

I'm also thinking that I'll build a prototype of a single-pole design, perhaps something that I would clamp to the table next to the GM, and then mount the projector to the top of the pole.  If I did that, how would I go about mounting the projector?  More suggestions, please - you all have been great so far!


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## falcarrion (Aug 8, 2010)

What is the throw distance of your projector?


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## falcarrion (Aug 8, 2010)

click on my name and goto my album section and you can see my projector stand setup.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 8, 2010)

Excellent - now I understand what you were talking about!

Can you tell me more about the mount at the top?  I see it in the pictures (specifically 003), but I'll admit that I don't actually understand what I'm looking at.  It looks way cool, and it obviously works, but what IS it?  And how can I make one?  

As for my projector, it's the ViewSonic PJD5152.  It's a short-throw projector; the throw range is listed as 27" to 127".  I plan to mount it about 30" above the table (though the tripod right now is 36" above the table).  Will that be all right?


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## FoxWander (Aug 8, 2010)

falcarrion said:


> I'm working on an even more portable setup once my *3m pocket projector* shows up next week.




Emphasis mine- PLEASE post about this when you get it. I've been very curious to see how one of these would work for gaming. 

We (my wife and I) have a game setup with an elevated map platform and lights underneath that allows for good visibility on character sheets and books but fairly dim everywhere else. I think even the low lumens of a pocket project could work, but I haven't seen one in use yet. I would be very interested in seeing the results you get with the 3M projector.

PS- Thanks for pointing out the pics of your setup. Nice, simple and portable. I like it.


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## FoxWander (Aug 8, 2010)

Also- I had another idea for a portable projector setup that would be excellent for toting around a con. Do something similar to falcarrion's pole mount but rig it to a folding hand truck. Put your books in a plastic crate at the bottom (makes them easy to move and gives stability) with the pole mounted projector against the back. Put your laptop bag on the crate. Attach a power strip and extension cord and hook everything up. Then when your ready to game all you have to do is wheel the whole thing up to the edge of the table. Extend the projector mount to the right height and plug in the extension cord and your good to go!

The idea came from a lan party computer rig a friend of mine had years ago. He had both his server and gaming computers mounted on a hand truck and hooked to one monitor with a switch. Everything was connected to a 20 port router, power strip and wind-up extension cord (that were also attached). He would just wheel the thing in, plug it into the wall and we were set. Everyone would hook to his router, he'd switch to the server and set up the game, then switch to the other computer to game. Worked great! Shows what you can do with a hand truck and some imagination, as far as portable electronics setups go.


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## falcarrion (Aug 8, 2010)

Ok I have added more pics of my stand. Basicly it is a ceiling projector mount, mounted to a small piece of wood. On the other side is what I beleave is called a pipe flange. The flange just screws onto the pipe thread.


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## falcarrion (Aug 8, 2010)

FoxWander said:


> Emphasis mine- PLEASE post about this when you get it. I've been very curious to see how one of these would work for gaming.
> 
> We (my wife and I) have a game setup with an elevated map platform and lights underneath that allows for good visibility on character sheets and books but fairly dim everywhere else. I think even the low lumens of a pocket project could work, but I haven't seen one in use yet. I would be very interested in seeing the results you get with the 3M projector.
> 
> PS- Thanks for pointing out the pics of your setup. Nice, simple and portable. I like it.




I should be getting it on monday or tuesday this week and then the testing begins. I'll be testing it projecting down on  my table set up and projecting up from under the table. Once I have tested it I'll post pics. I may even test double projector projecting. One projecting down on map area and one projecting up on the map area. This might make for a very intresting looking map area.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 9, 2010)

falcarrion - Thank you so much for the pictures and additional details!   I get it now.  You screwed a pipe end plate to one side of the block of  wood and you screwed the ceiling mount for the projector to the other  side.  Simple and beautiful!  This is definitely the direction I'm going  next.

As an update for everyone, I've put up another blog post  now that my projector has arrived and I had a few minutes to play with  it (though I'm getting ready to leave for a business trip, so I won't be  able to fiddle with it for the next couple of days).  The problems I'm  seeing with my current setup are:


800 by 600 resolution isn't high enough - the monster tokens look totally pixellated
The tripod projects the image way off center - as you guys pointed out, the image doesn't spread out evenly from the center of the lens
The tripod does get in the players' way somewhat.
On the bright side (no pun intended), 2,500 lumens seems to be plenty, and MapTool is great.  My next steps are to swap this projector for a higher-res one and to try building a single-pole mount.


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## falcarrion (Aug 9, 2010)

Your problem might not be the projector as much as the laptop your useing.
Try hooking up a monitor to the laptop and see if you get the same result.
The pixeling looks more like your zooming in too close in the maptool software.

Let me know if there is anything else I can help with.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 10, 2010)

@Falcarrion: You might be right about the zooming, but that's the zoom level I need if I want one-inch squares (which I'll need in order to let players use their minis).  I'm open to suggestions on how to fix this problem, especially if there's a software-based solution rather than hardware-based.  

Things look fine when I use a computer monitor rather than the projector, but that's probably because the monitor is maybe 17 inches and the laptop is projecting something more like 40 inches (I haven't measured it yet).


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## JDragon (Aug 10, 2010)

That 40' or so image you are getting, is that with the throw distance you expect to get with your final setup?  I'm guessing it is, but figured I would throw it out there.

As for other options as I mentioned I'm using photoshop which seems to work well for me.  I have custom files and patterns set up to make putting maps together faster.  They are set up for the size I'm able to work at with my image size vs resoultion.

The nice thing with photoshop or Gimp a freeware version of software very similar to PS is the fact they have layers you can work in, including unhiding as you go to revel more rooms, secret doors etc.


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## falcarrion (Aug 10, 2010)

I also use maptools on my setup and haven't had a problem.
when dragging it onto the the map are you bringing it in as background?
also what is the demension of the map in pixels?


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## Ferrety (Aug 10, 2010)

My projector stand is somewhat portable. For setting it up, I need a sturdy ladder and a ceiling. As for the stand I use autopole with an simple arm:







It's quite easy to setup, if the ceiling is low enough. Autopole is telescopic, so I first extend it to ceiling, and then climb to attach the arm. At first I was going to use two autopoles, but the stand is stable enough with only one and also easier to use. If you wish, I can get some better pictures/more info.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 10, 2010)

falcarrion said:


> I also use maptools on my setup and haven't had a problem.
> when dragging it onto the the map are you bringing it in as background?
> also what is the demension of the map in pixels?




I created the map in MapTool, mostly drawing in the Background layer and dragging a few objects onto the Object layer.  I'm not quite sure how many pixels across the map is, but I know that I set the size of the squares by default to 50 pixels, and then I just zoomed to the appropriate level to make the squares 1 inch each.

Is there something I can do with my "pixels per square" setting to make this work out better?


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## falcarrion (Aug 11, 2010)

most maps that i import into maptools are  100 pixles and up. 

for example one map i have is width 951 pixels by height 768 pixels.

I have others in the thousands. 

A map I made in pymapper is 3300 by 2500.


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## falcarrion (Aug 11, 2010)

FoxWander said:


> Emphasis mine- PLEASE post about this when you get it. I've been very curious to see how one of these would work for gaming.
> 
> We (my wife and I) have a game setup with an elevated map platform and lights underneath that allows for good visibility on character sheets and books but fairly dim everywhere else. I think even the low lumens of a pocket project could work, but I haven't seen one in use yet. I would be very interested in seeing the results you get with the 3M projector.
> 
> PS- Thanks for pointing out the pics of your setup. Nice, simple and portable. I like it.




My test so far are not good. the pocket projectors don't have any zoom capablieties. to zoom out you have to move the unit away from the surface.
The farther you move it a way the lower the lumens.
With your setup it may work because of how dark it is above the surface, but you would still need about 2 feet above the table for a decent size projection.

I still have more testing to do. I haven't tried using a mirror to reflect it onto the table yet.


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## FoxWander (Aug 11, 2010)

falcarrion said:


> My test so far are not good. the pocket projectors don't have any zoom capablieties. to zoom out you have to move the unit away from the surface.
> The farther you move it a way the lower the lumens.
> With your setup it may work because of how dark it is above the surface, but you would still need about 2 feet above the table for a decent size projection.
> 
> I still have more testing to do. I haven't tried using a mirror to reflect it onto the table yet.




Well, I've got just under 4 feet above the map surface to work with. You posted in the other thread so you've probably seen this, but here's the pic of my set up again. That floor lamp in the back (60 watt bulb) is for the DM (the comfy seat at the back) and so we have a little MORE light on the map. If we turned it off it would be pretty dark. (I tried taking a pic with it off and the under-map lights kind of over-expose everything so you can't really see what it's like.) If you can, I'd love to see some pics of your results with the pocket projector to see what it actually looks like. 

I think I'll cross post and move this to the other thread cause we're kind of off-topic from OnlineDM's original post.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 11, 2010)

falcarrion said:


> most maps that i import into maptools are  100 pixles and up.
> 
> for example one map i have is width 951 pixels by height 768 pixels.
> 
> ...




Sorry for being unclear; I was saying that the size of each 1-inch square is set to 50 pixels by default in MapTool.  There are probably about 40 squares across, so 2000 pixels.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 13, 2010)

After showing my 800x600 projector and MapTool to my friend who actually knows about projectors, he was able to show me how to adjust the height and the zoom to get a good-quality image.  It looks like I'm not going to be limited by resolution after all - by software, maybe, but not resolution.

Next step: Getting the supplies to build a single-pole rig as others here on EN World have described (especially falcarrion).  There's a new blog post up on this as well, describing what I plan to build.


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## Nifft (Aug 13, 2010)

I wonder if it's practical to just mount a mirror on the ceiling. That way all the expensive, hard-to-replace bits would operate at ground-level (or at least table-level).

Also, of course, you could use the mirror for kinkytime(tm).

Cheers, -- N


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## Janx (Aug 13, 2010)

it seems a few experiments with a mirror would be in order.

Put the projector on a table edge, facing perpendicular to a wall.  Now bring a mirror into range and angle it to bring the image onto the wall.

Verify you can control the focus with the projector's slider and distance of the mirror to the projector and wall.  

Don't forget to see if your projector has paralax compensation.  A decent projector should have controls to let you warp the image to counter the distortion of not having the lense squared to the wall.

now build a small platform (a board) with a notch cut out for the mirror to sit over at a 45 degree angle.

Then mount the projector on the board, and build an adjustable mount for the mirror to float over the notch.

Now take a camera tripod and mount a nut in the platform that fits the screw threading on the tripod.  The tripod will hold your projector platform.

Put the tripod on the floor next to the table and raise it up.  Adjust the angle of the mirror and the parallax, and you should be able to get it to hit the table and be squared and in focus.  

Change the height to enlarge the image to get 1" squares (don't just fiddle with the image or the video resolution, you have multiple mechanisims available).

the trickiest part of the build should be building a mount for the mirror that also lets you adjust it's angle.


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## falcarrion (Aug 13, 2010)

dont forget the mirror will reverse the picture. so words will come out backwards. Most projectors will let you reverse the pic being projected.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 13, 2010)

Just to be clear for you guys who are theorizing about experiments with mirrors, etc... it might be cool, but I'm not doing it!  I need portability first and foremost (so no mounting a mirror on the ceiling, despite the kinkytime benefits).  

And as for experimentation, I can already tell you from eyewitness experience that yes, a projector shooting forward into a mirror that's angled down at a 45 degree angle toward the table (with the projector set to reverse the image) works just fine.  That's the only projector setup I have personally seen in action (at my friendly local game store from a gentleman named Ian), and it's quite nice.  

It's just built on too big of a rig - I want mine to be something that I can easily carry around by myself, including the mounting rig, the projector, the projection surface and the laptop.  Ian's setup... no way.  It requires multiple trips to carry, and that's not going to work at a convention.


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## Janx (Aug 14, 2010)

I'm talking like a 3 inch mirror, and a base board that's like 3" longer in front of the projector than the projector itself.  

Not a whole lot bigger.  And camera tripods fold up.  So one trip, especially if you put it all in a duffel bag.

the further benefit of my design is that the projector itself sits at its traditional angle, so the heat rises from the top, rather than into the rest of the machine.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 14, 2010)

Janx said:


> I'm talking like a 3 inch mirror, and a base board that's like 3" longer in front of the projector than the projector itself.
> 
> Not a whole lot bigger.  And camera tripods fold up.  So one trip, especially if you put it all in a duffel bag.
> 
> the further benefit of my design is that the projector itself sits at its traditional angle, so the heat rises from the top, rather than into the rest of the machine.




I'm afraid I'm still having a hard time picturing exactly how this mirror will be mounted, despite your description.  It sounds like you're suggesting I put a longish board on top of a camera tripod, put the projector on that board, and put the mirror a short distance in front of it on that same board, angled so that the projector image will hit the mirror and then go down.  This would imply a large hole drilled in the board somewhere between the lens and the mirror for the reflected image to go down through... and it still doesn't help me understand what is holding the mirror at the 45 degree angle.

I'm sure what you're saying makes perfect sense if I could just visualize it, but I'm having a hard time doing so.

Also, my friend who works with projectors professionally assures me that mounting it vertically will not cause any damage from inadequate heat dissipation.  Several people here on EN World have warned me otherwise, but I'm going to trust my friend.  Maybe he's wrong, and if so I'll be ruining my projector in a hurry, but that's the risk I'm running.

In other news, I've finished building my rig - everything except for the projector mount itself, which is on its way in the mail.  Exciting times!


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## OnlineDM (Aug 15, 2010)

Good news: The new rig is done!  Well, almost - I'm still waiting for the actual projector mount to arrive, so I currently have it rigged with (ahem) coat hangers.  But the thing works!  Picture below, more details on the blog.

The summary is that I went with the single-pole design.


Heavy board, about 12" square, for the base
Screw a flange for 1" galvanized pipe to the base
Attach a 36" long, 1" diameter galvanized pipe to the flange
Attach a 90" angle, a 2" pipe and another flange to the top
Screw that top flange to another chunk of wood
Screw the projector mount to the other side of that top chunk of wood (or, as I'm currently doing, use coat hangers)
Put a 30-pound sandbag around the base of the rig, sitting on the base plate, with more of the weight on the side opposite the projector.
It's inexpensive (about $60 for the whole rig), portable and surprisingly stable.  I can't wait to put it into action!

Thanks everyone for your help - I'm really happy with the results.


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## FoxWander (Aug 15, 2010)

Looks good. Glad you got it all worked out. 

But, to illustrate what I think Janx is talking about with the small mirror- see my attached picture.

Put the projector level and hang a small, angled mirror in front of the lens.  My picture shows a board and L-bracket but you could replace all that with a long strip of metal bent to the correct angle at the mirror end.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 15, 2010)

FoxWander said:


> Looks good. Glad you got it all worked out.
> 
> But, to illustrate what I think Janx is talking about with the small mirror- see my attached picture.
> 
> Put the projector level and hang a small, angled mirror in front of the lens.  My picture shows a board and L-bracket but you could replace all that with a long strip of metal bent to the correct angle at the mirror end.




FoxWander: Thank you for the illustration.  That definitely helps.  Now my question is, how do I attach that board to the top of the projector?  Also, that's where the buttons are on the projector, so I can't make that area too hard to get to (though the projector also has a remote control that I could use).

I'm still open to this mirror approach - it wouldn't be hard for me to just take off the 90 degree elbow in my setup and put the projector on top of a horizontal platform at the top of the pipe.  If I knew how to get the mirror out in front, I'd be willing to give it a shot.

As an alternative to what you've drawn, I could perhaps miter a couple of pieces of wood so that they would come up and forward from the sides of the projector platform.  I could then mount a mirror on a lightweight piece of wood and suspend that wood between the arms using thumb screws that I could loosen and tighten to adjust the angle of the mirror.


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## Janx (Aug 16, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> FoxWander: Thank you for the illustration.  That definitely helps.  Now my question is, how do I attach that board to the top of the projector?  Also, that's where the buttons are on the projector, so I can't make that area too hard to get to (though the projector also has a remote control that I could use).
> 
> I'm still open to this mirror approach - it wouldn't be hard for me to just take off the 90 degree elbow in my setup and put the projector on top of a horizontal platform at the top of the pipe.  If I knew how to get the mirror out in front, I'd be willing to give it a shot.
> 
> As an alternative to what you've drawn, I could perhaps miter a couple of pieces of wood so that they would come up and forward from the sides of the projector platform.  I could then mount a mirror on a lightweight piece of wood and suspend that wood between the arms using thumb screws that I could loosen and tighten to adjust the angle of the mirror.





My intent is for the board to be under the projector, kinda like what you have in your actual build.

From there, the mounting bracket/notch for the light and mirror will have to be figured out based on what parts you can find.

On the other hand, if the heat isn't a problem, most camera tripods allow for doing a full camera tilt, so just the board mount would suffice to recreate the stand you built, but on a professional tripod.

indymogul.com has a series on DIY FX.  One of the projects is for a small track mounted camera on a tripid.  The method used to mount the board's tripod mount nut is all you need from that project.

basically, get the right nut for the tripod's mount screw.  Glue the nut into the board (1/4" masonite may be fine).  Fasten the projector on the board (zip ties? or whatever's built into the design of the projector).

Now just attach the baseboard to the tripod, and rotate it to vertical positioning like you have in the photo.

No mirror needed, unless, as I indicated earlier, you really need the projector on the level.

In both of my scenarios, the mount board goes on the bottom of the projector.  I intended for the projector's buttons to be fully available.


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## falcarrion (Aug 16, 2010)

OnlineDM said:


> Good news: The new rig is done!  Well, almost - I'm still waiting for the actual projector mount to arrive, so I currently have it rigged with (ahem) coat hangers.  But the thing works!  Picture below, more details on the blog.
> 
> The summary is that I went with the single-pole design.
> 
> ...




Glad I could help.


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## falcarrion (Aug 16, 2010)

another thing you can do is slide barbell weights down the pole. As long as the weight hole in the center is the same dia as the pole.


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## falcarrion (Aug 18, 2010)

I finally have pics up my 3m pro 120. It is definetly a low light setup. But with led lights under the out side of the table will give enough light for the players.
Or clip boards with a book led light on it will also work.


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## OnlineDM (Aug 18, 2010)

Thanks for the pics of the new rig!  It looks cool; too bad about the low-light requirement, but it sounds like you've managed to make that work.

I've made a modification to my setup to be more in line with what I believe you had suggested earlier - getting a longer support pole (6 feet) and putting it on the floor instead of on the table.  I realized that I had scratched up my dining room table with the existing rig, and that it does take up a lot of space on the table.

The floor mount works pretty well so far - now I just have to adjust the support spires beneath the projector to have it aim farther out onto the table.

I'll have to see if I can get barbell weights with the appropriate diameter hole.  I like the concept, but I want to carry the ballast separately from the rig itself just for weight purposes (putting the ballast in a rolling suitcase and carrying the pole/base in my other hand).  With the barbell weights, I don't think that would be a possibility unless I want to unscrew the support pole from the base (which I guess I could do if I needed to).


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## falcarrion (Aug 18, 2010)

sorry to hear about the table. You could put felt under the base to help it from scratching the table or the floor. What I like about the barbell weights is that they sit evenly and put all the weight down on the base. I use about 50 to 75 pounds. It would take alot of effert to tip it over. Are you getting a ceiling mount?
Other wise if you have enought weight you can always extend another piece out over the table more.


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## OnlineDM (Sep 1, 2010)

*The projector in action!*

I figured that anyone who had been following this thread might be interested to see how it all turned out.  I finally put the portable RPG projector rig into action last night, running a Living Forgotten Realms game at my friendly local game store.  The details are on my blog.

Everything went beautifully!  The only things I'd change are:


Make sure I have contrasting colors on the map - it did get a little washed out under the bright halogen light above the table at the store, and it was hard to distinguish a black altar from the brown wood it sat upon.
Find a bigger piece of foam board for the map - I currently have two 20" by 30" pieces that I set next to each other.  I'd like to get a single 30" by 40" piece of foam for the background if I can find one.


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## falcarrion (Sep 2, 2010)

If you put a peice of plexiglass on top of the foam boards the foam boards will stay more in place. Also you can use dry erase pens on the plexiglass. Or even get a whiteboard in the size your looking for.
Elmers makes a trifold foam board when unfolded is 48x36. I got one from Hobby Lobby.


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