# Fallen World- 13th lvl homebrew (dark and mature)



## Nephtys (Aug 11, 2007)

I've been an active player in a lot of games on these boards for a while now, but I've never DMed before so I figure it's time for me to give it a try.
I'm looking for 4 to 6 players willing to risk wasting a little time on an inexperienced DM (but hopefully have a pretty good gaming experience in the mean time).

So without further ado, I present to you my homebrew setting created specifically for you:


Out there lie the infinite planes, turning forever in a cosmic dance to a tune noone can hear. Out there, connecting all planes, Sigil gleams and reeks in the center of all things. Out there are wonders and horrors beyond imagining, Angels, Demons, Gods. But here... Here are no Angels, and the only God left within our sphere lies dead and eternally rotting. There is no lack of horrors here, for the world is rich and full of life.

A great war among the gods nearly destroyed the world in ages far gone and threw down the greatest of their number to the earth where his corpse still lies seeping life and power into the twisted creatures that feed upon him. The remaining pantheon, wounded, weakened and horrified at what they had done both to themselves and their creation vowed to set themselves apart from their bone of contention and never again interfere in its affairs. Unable to break their vow they now look on in impotent rage as the world is raped.

The world healed and the gears turned. Patient beings looked on greedily awaiting the time to strike, manipulating events from afar. They had no easy task for the gods had raised walls to protect the world when they swore their vows, but all walls weaken in time and barriers that had been erected to fend off intruders from the outside could still be eroded from within. In the end a whisper was enough, a promise of power and bliss. Feeble or powerful, few men could have resisted that promise from that voice. The promise was kept, and the Artificer of Ogaan has been well rewarded for his crime.

They came trough his portal, the Demon-lord Xileg clad in the flesh of scorpions, his consort the Sucubus sorceress Love, the Horde Mistress and Marilith Yangava, Ingarr the Master of Balors, the Fiendish human Wizard Cormand and his half-human apprentices Ilva and Kio, the Trembling One, the Wormkeeper, Zarakhar, Valorash, The Creeper, Qagroth, The Vile, Geron, The Fleshcrafter, The Laughing Zephyr, Mersam, The Lady of Flowers, Ubilith, and a screaming torrent, an endless army of demons.  

The world fell, for though the nations and powers of the world fought back they were soon overwhelmed. And when the angels came, called by the remaining priests of the Rotting God Lord Xileg was well prepared. The spell that slew him even as he carved his way trough his celestial foes came from another source and his body was consumed along with his enemies.

A triumvirate of Lords took over, but only helped to cause a civil war. The home, an infinite fraction of an infinite plane, was lost. And yet the war raged for nine years before a new order arose. The greatest of the Lords and Ladies divided the world and its souls into their domains and joined into a council to rule each other and coordinate their efforts against common threaths and the few remaining enclaves of unconquered mortals.

This is the world, your world, and there is no escape. The walls around the world are still too strong for you to break trough and death only leads to deeper damnation for the Demonlords have made their mark deep into their domains and the souls of the dead are theirs. The mortal enclaves are far from safe, in time their doom is assured. But you do not have the good luck to be living there.

Fortunately the Lords have need of competent mortal servants, and it's quite possible to live a good enough life for the few who are able to keep their favour. While most of humanity and goblinkind live in great sprawling urban slums kept fed by undead labour until their death brings in the harvest you have the potential for greater things.

--

So here it is. 13th level, standard wealth, SRD 3,5 (if you want to use other sources you'll have to show me the rules).

There will be graphic scenes of an adult nature, amateurish descriptions of all kinds of unpleasantness and pleasure. I'm not writing porn, but I'm not trying to deny human (or demonic) nature either.

Paladins will be unplayable, and good aligned characters will have to compromise their ethics if they wish to survive (In fact they will have been forced to do so several times in their lives already or they would never have reached 13th level). There is not always a Good-aligned solution to every problem. But even so, in a world where evil rules it is possible to be good without always doing good. Intentions matter.
Regardless of alignment the setting will be harsh to your characters in general. You can not expect to always be facing enemies you can handily defeat using only a fraction of your resources (or at all if you go up against someone obviously more powerful than yourselves), running away is an acceptable option.

But don't run away from the game, death and depravity can be a lot of fun (at least while you're safe behind the screen of your computer).


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## ethandrew (Aug 11, 2007)

So what do you need for us to sign up? Character concept? I am very interested. Arcane magic user, all the way.


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## Jemal (Aug 11, 2007)

While on the one hand I would love to get in on a Mature game (I've DM'd a couple IRL before and they're good fun), I believe ENWorld has a PG-13 policy. (Not sure on that one, though).  Can anyone clarify?

BTW, if this IS allowed, I'm so in.. Would you allow the GreyGuard Prestige Class?


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Cautiously interested, but I have a lot on my plate right now...still, this has the virtue of being unique...


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## Blackrat (Aug 11, 2007)

I agree with Shayuri. This is interesting. I'll have to come up with some interesting consept. I'd like in.


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## Nephtys (Aug 11, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> So what do you need for us to sign up? Character concept? I am very interested. Arcane magic user, all the way.




Sounds great. Welcome.

Yes. You don't have to write pages and pages worth of background, just enough to give me and yourself a sense of what your character is about. I know from personal experience that my own character concept usually changes while I'm playing the game, but still a little writing never hurt anyone and good writing can help you get in. It also helps me when I'm dming if the players contribute to the setting with details and plot hooks. The world is dark and twisted but quite chaotic, so there's a lot of room for diversity. This is a homebrew, and I've got a general outline of the world and a few ideas of where the game might be going but I'd like to keep a lot of options open. I generally don't like railroading.  




			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> While on the one hand I would love to get in on a Mature game (I've DM'd a couple IRL before and they're good fun), I believe ENWorld has a PG-13 policy. (Not sure on that one, though).  Can anyone clarify?
> 
> BTW, if this IS allowed, I'm so in.. Would you allow the GreyGuard Prestige Class?




Welcome Jemal 

Thirteen year olds are pretty damned mature these days, but still I see the problem.
I'd like to keep the game on EN-World, I like this site and do all of my gaming here, but if I have to I'll try to find another board for it.

You'll have to show it to me first, but it sounds like a good name for a class .



			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> Cautiously interested, but I have a lot on my plate right now...still, this has the virtue of being unique...




Welcome Shayuri and thanks. 



			
				Blackrat said:
			
		

> I agree with Shayuri. This is interesting. I'll have to come up with some interesting consept. I'd like in.




Great to see so many interested players. Welcome Blackrat.


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## ethandrew (Aug 11, 2007)

I think I've seen a couple games with the [Mature] tag on them over on the Playing the Game board, so I definitely think it's feasible to do that here on EN World.

I have a few questions, or maybe just one: Are we limited to what races we can choose? Any LA? I'm feeling a pull to Master of the Unseen Hand, but I'm not going to set that in stone quite yet. How soon are you looking to start this off?


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## Jemal (Aug 11, 2007)

Well, how about we assume it's OK until someone tells us otherwise... I've read the EnWorld terms (though not recently), and unless you have 'on-screen' stuff of an 18A or higher nature (nudity/sex/etc), I think it'll be good.

On that note, Greyguard is basically a Paladin prestige class built for paladins who like to get their hands dirty.  I think it would fit in perfectly with this type of setting.  It's got all the Pally abilities(Except their 'smite Evil' slowly evolves into "Smite people you don't like").  They basically justify doing stuff "For the greater Good".  They don't run into the moral quandries most Pallys do.. If the badguy is wearing baby armour, they don't go "OH NO, I can't kill babies!" THey go "Hey, the kids're gonna die anyways if I don't stop that jerk.  SMITE HO!"
It's in Complete Scoundrel.


			
				complete scoundrel said:
			
		

> "The typical image of a paladin is a proud knight of noble bearing, resplendent in armor bright as sunlight and bearing a sword shining with the purity of his cause. This archetype, upheld by both idealistic knights and their enemies, *has killed countless honourable warriors*. Taking a cue from the enemies of their faith, many good-aligned religions have established secretive orders of their most dedicated and hardened soldiers. These Grey Guards are less restrained by their knightly vows, doing what must be done, no matter how unpleasant.
> 
> ENTRY REQUIREMENTS:
> Alignment: Lawful Good
> ...



They can still loose their abilities.. it's just harder, and the higher level they get, the harder it is.  By lvl 10, they can get away with anything so long as they truley believe it's for a good cause. (Leading back to your 'good intentions' thing).

At lvl 13, the class levels would probably look something like Human Rogue3/Pal2/GrayGuard8


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## Caros (Aug 11, 2007)

Heh, I'd love to join in on this provided a couple of things. Probably won't be posting a concept till tomorrow (Don't have one in mind at the moment.) And won't have a character up till tuesday at the earliest (Days off don't start till then and I'm on day 15 of 17, don't expect much right now hehe.)

That said, I am sort of a goody two shoes at heart. I've always found difficulty playing truely evil characters. I'd like to try playing a goodish character, sort of the moral center of the group. If working for the 'Lords' he'd probably be the type that gets smacked around a lot for his mistakes, gets ridiculed for taking the hard way, but who they ultimately keep around since he is proficient and just skims the line of "too much trouble"

Just a thought give me opinions and all that =)


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## Autumn (Aug 11, 2007)

This sounds great to me. Lots of thought has obviously gone into the idea, and I've always been drawn to a style of play that includes insoluble moral messes and general nastiness. I'd love to get on board. 

 I'm drawn towards the idea of playing a Bard in a setting like this. A wandering chancer who's so far managed to keep just about above water by playing the right games with the right people at the right times, but who is always on the edge of going too far and coming to a sticky end. Also probably not, in the end, a bad person. Perhaps driven to try as far as possible to bring a little light into people's lives, but forced to make a lot of bad compromises in order to carry on with that work. 

 I'll think more on that and come up with some expanded ideas tomorrow.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 11, 2007)

My class finals are next week so I am definitely interested in getting into a game such as this. I see what I can come up with for concepts.  Sources are limited to SRD, PH1 and DMG?  No Complete series unless you approve correct? Currently I am thinking wizard/alienist or master specialist line if ok'd.

The demons were arrogant in their belief that they had been the only ones to pierce the veil and offer whisper of power...


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2007)

Arr...some more detail on creation guidelines would be useful. Like...ECL races okay? Templates? Non-core classes or PrC's (with corresponding writeups, of course). 

I'm considering a monk...or a warlock...or a sorceror...maybe a soulknife...

Hee.

Oh, also...standard wealth? Spending restrictions?


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## Voda Vosa (Aug 12, 2007)

Are all places filled? It seems so so so interesting
I love playing evil characters, and I found the warlock, to be an extraordinary character for that roll. So if I'm to play, I will choose a warlock


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## Jemal (Aug 12, 2007)

If I read correctly, it's the campaign world that's evil, the characters themselves aren't neccesarily Evil.. in fact, I think a setting like this would be more interesting with characters trying to skirt the line and remain 'mostly good' than ones who've embraced the evil.  
Good characters tend to be the ones who CHANGE things.

Also, Evil-character-filled campaigns have less life expectancy than good ones.


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## Nephtys (Aug 12, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> I think I've seen a couple games with the [Mature] tag on them over on the Playing the Game board, so I definitely think it's feasible to do that here on EN World.
> 
> I have a few questions, or maybe just one: Are we limited to what races we can choose? Any LA? I'm feeling a pull to Master of the Unseen Hand, but I'm not going to set that in stone quite yet. How soon are you looking to start this off?




I hope so. If it becomes a problem we'll have to deal with it when it comes up, I'm willing to adapt to the circumstances.

Somewhat limited. I'd like to keep most of the group human, because it fits with my concept of the setting and because I find that human characters can more realistically reflect human emotions. Human characters are less stereotypical and more adaptable than most fictional races and their adaptability have helped the human race survive while many other races have been driven to extinction or close enough.
Still, the world is quite diverse and there may be all kinds of sapient creatures that may be acceptable pc-races. Goblins are quite plentiful, the orcs haven't had to change their way of life very much even after their demonic subjugation. The gnomes are have all been exterminated, and the halflings have seen the wrong end of their own cookpots. Elves and Dwarves have either been killed or driven away to a handful of fortified and besieged enclaves, the Duergar have become the most common variety of Dwarf and the Drow never existed on this world in the first place. Anything weirder may be ok too, if it seems cool enough to me .

We could start next weekend, if I've got enough finished characters by then.





			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> Well, how about we assume it's OK until someone tells us otherwise... I've read the EnWorld terms (though not recently), and unless you have 'on-screen' stuff of an 18A or higher nature (nudity/sex/etc), I think it'll be good.
> 
> On that note, Greyguard is basically a Paladin prestige class built for paladins who like to get their hands dirty.  I think it would fit in perfectly with this type of setting.  It's got all the Pally abilities(Except their 'smite Evil' slowly evolves into "Smite people you don't like").  They basically justify doing stuff "For the greater Good".  They don't run into the moral quandries most Pallys do.. If the badguy is wearing baby armour, they don't go "OH NO, I can't kill babies!" THey go "Hey, the kids're gonna die anyways if I don't stop that jerk.  SMITE HO!"
> It's in Complete Scoundrel.
> ...




It could work. I know you're a good enough player to pull it off. Just keep in mind that he'll have to accept that many of his actions, though done for his idea of the greater good, will have evil consequences. He may still be able to make a difference in the world, some evils are lesser than others, but even his victories may turn bitter in the end. 

Souls are a currency in the world (along with gold and silver). Souls are the greatest source of wealth and power. Souls can and usually does substitute for xp as spell components and the creation of magic items. That, and the consequences of that, may be hard to accept for a good aligned character. 




			
				Caros said:
			
		

> Heh, I'd love to join in on this provided a couple of things. Probably won't be posting a concept till tomorrow (Don't have one in mind at the moment.) And won't have a character up till tuesday at the earliest (Days off don't start till then and I'm on day 15 of 17, don't expect much right now hehe.)
> 
> That said, I am sort of a goody two shoes at heart. I've always found difficulty playing truely evil characters. I'd like to try playing a goodish character, sort of the moral center of the group. If working for the 'Lords' he'd probably be the type that gets smacked around a lot for his mistakes, gets ridiculed for taking the hard way, but who they ultimately keep around since he is proficient and just skims the line of "too much trouble"
> 
> Just a thought give me opinions and all that =)




Welcome Caros. 

Tuesday is fine, everything before saturday works too.

Demons, I imagine, generally tend to be quite tolerant. They hate and distrust everyone equally and therefore have no choice but to work with people they loathe. As long as you are useful they'll take advantage of you and if you become a liability...   
The  problem with the good aligned is that there is not always a good path open to them. I want the PCs to be proactive and a good character can, perhaps, cause the game to slow down because the options available seem less attractive to them than they do to neutral or evil characters. It depends a lot on the player, but if you want to save the world you'll have to wait until the game reaches epic levels and even then evil will still be just plain easier.

In most games Good is an easier choice than Evil. Good characters can trust their similarily aligned allies and their enemies will be plagued by infighting. Good have just as powerful game-features open to them, if not more so. Good is easy, but by being easy it becomes meaningless. People who only act in the way that is most convenient are not good, and yet that is what most characters do in most games because Good deeds are rewarded and Evil ones are punished. That is a good lesson for children, a little white lie, but it is not really the way the world works. Evil is the path of convenience. Heroism can never be easy.

Just my thoughts .



			
				Autumn said:
			
		

> This sounds great to me. Lots of thought has obviously gone into the idea, and I've always been drawn to a style of play that includes insoluble moral messes and general nastiness. I'd love to get on board.
> 
> I'm drawn towards the idea of playing a Bard in a setting like this. A wandering chancer who's so far managed to keep just about above water by playing the right games with the right people at the right times, but who is always on the edge of going too far and coming to a sticky end. Also probably not, in the end, a bad person. Perhaps driven to try as far as possible to bring a little light into people's lives, but forced to make a lot of bad compromises in order to carry on with that work.
> 
> I'll think more on that and come up with some expanded ideas tomorrow.




Thanks and Welcome 

I see that most of you want to play heroic characters who are not afraid to get their hands dirty but like to keep their hearts clean, people used to being able to trust noone finding in eachothers a common ground.  But I suspect that not all the PCs will be completely trustworthy. If this increases group-cohesion and effectiveness it could even be a good reason for the Lords to keep you around.  




			
				Gli'jar said:
			
		

> My class finals are next week so I am definitely interested in getting into a game such as this. I see what I can come up with for concepts.  Sources are limited to SRD, PH1 and DMG?  No Complete series unless you approve correct? Currently I am thinking wizard/alienist or master specialist line if ok'd.
> 
> The demons were arrogant in their belief that they had been the only ones to pierce the veil and offer whisper of power...




Welcome Gli'jar.
That would be ok, but you'll have to show me the classes, write up their class features for me. If they are not absurdly overpowered or just plain feel wrong for the game (like the exalted classes) I will approve them. It's the same for spells and items, so to spare yourself too much work I advise you to keep mainly to the core materials.
The Alienist, as far as I recall the class, seems like a good fit. The gods raised their walls to protect the world from the multiverse, knowing little of the beings who lurk beyond reality... There may be some links to the Rotting God, and others to some of the less sane of the Lords like the Trembling One, Ubilith, the Creeper or the Lady of Flowers.




			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> Arr...some more detail on creation guidelines would be useful. Like...ECL races okay? Templates? Non-core classes or PrC's (with corresponding writeups, of course).
> 
> I'm considering a monk...or a warlock...or a sorceror...maybe a soulknife...
> 
> ...




ECL races are ok, generally. But no celestials, half or whole, no fiends, likewise, (The Lords have no lack of fiendish servitors, but there are some places that fiends cannot go and some things they are not suited for, fortunately for humanity.) but tieflings are ok. No antrophomorphic Baleen Whales or furries or silly things like that. Undead are fine, lishdom is something many mortal spellcasters strive for since their souls will then be safe (or at least less damned than they would otherwise be). Lycantropes, Gnolls, pretty much anything is ok, but I'd like to keep the group in general humanocentric.

Wealth, the normal starting wealth for level 13 (I'll have to look it up, doesn't seem to be in the SRD) with no spending restrictions. You can buy immovable rods or glowstones to your hearts content, you can even spend it all on hirelings (but you shouldn't expect your employees to be particularly loyal to you), it's up to you.




			
				Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> Are all places filled? It seems so so so interesting
> I love playing evil characters, and I found the warlock, to be an extraordinary character for that roll. So if I'm to play, I will choose a warlock




Thanks Voda Vosa

No places are filled yet, so you're still welcome. Jemal is my DM in another game so I'd be silly to turn him down for this one and I know a couple of the other interested players are also excellent role-players, but in the end it all depends on my impression of yor characters. Those who don't get in right away can still come in as alternates, they will probably get to play sooner or later.
Evil characters would go well with the game. Not that the world is any kinder to you than anyone else. Most demons still see you as either a pest to be tolerated for now, as soul-food on legs, or with a very reluctant respect if you've earned it. But you may have an easier time getting ahead since you won't be held back by your sense of morality. Warlocks also derive their powers from the lower planes, IIRC, which indirectly means that they eat souls... Yeah, your character would probably find the world he lives in now preferable to the one of his father (where he would have been burned at the stake).




			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> If I read correctly, it's the campaign world that's evil, the characters themselves aren't neccesarily Evil.. in fact, I think a setting like this would be more interesting with characters trying to skirt the line and remain 'mostly good' than ones who've embraced the evil.
> Good characters tend to be the ones who CHANGE things.
> 
> Also, Evil-character-filled campaigns have less life expectancy than good ones.





True the characters aren't necessarily evil, evil is optional just like good. Still, there are degrees of evil and even the most wicked of mortals could never get close to the demonic depths of evil. Any evil characters could easily be considered the lesser of two evils as far as the other members of the group are concerned. As for the matter of trust, well, there are many ways for the powers that be to pull the strings of your companions. There are many ways for evil to appear good and good to be made to appear evil. You shouldn't really trust anyone, you wouldn't really expect to find anyone you could trust anymore.
Change... Yes you could change things. Demonic society is inherently unstable, push hard enough in the right direction at the right place in the right time and you could easily make a change. That change could even be for the better. But the greatest Good, the ultimate victory against all evil, will require some near divine role-playing and strategy from your part.

Perhaps good characters have a shorter life expectancy than evil ones... Nah, that depends less on alignment and more on intelligence. 

Maybe it's true that campaigns with evil characters tend to be shorter, but I think that depends a lot on DM- and player-expectations. Evil cannot be played the same way as good, evil has to be proactive and that makes it a greater challenge. 
I've never DM'ed before, so my words could turn out to be worthless, but my ambition is to allow you to pursue your own agendas wether your plans are evil or good.


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## Shayuri (Aug 12, 2007)

Hmm. I think before I go forward on this, I need to ask a few metagamey questions. 

Like...what are we, the PC's, going to be DOING? Normally with a game setup like this, the objective would be to find some way to weaken or banish the demons or somesuch. You've made it pretty clear that ain't gonna happen. So then I'm thinking, it could be a struggle for survival, but that would get old pretty fast... And it's sounding more and more like the PC's won't really be a team or group...just a bunch of people who may or may not even have regular contact with each other.

As interesting as the premise is for a setting, I'm not sure it's really a premise for a -game- at the moment. I've been in more than one game where the GM just said, "Okay, here's this huge vast detailed setting. Now go do things!"

And it just doesn't, in my experience, work very well. Even in a fantasy setting full of magic and wonder, without a story...without a PURPOSE...the whole thing gets pretty tedious.

I say this only because I haven't seen much from you about who the PC's will be...what they'll be doing...what kind of adventures/plots/stories they'd be enjoying...and the answers to those questions aren't obvious from the premise.


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## Nephtys (Aug 13, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm. I think before I go forward on this, I need to ask a few metagamey questions.
> 
> Like...what are we, the PC's, going to be DOING? Normally with a game setup like this, the objective would be to find some way to weaken or banish the demons or somesuch. You've made it pretty clear that ain't gonna happen. So then I'm thinking, it could be a struggle for survival, but that would get old pretty fast... And it's sounding more and more like the PC's won't really be a team or group...just a bunch of people who may or may not even have regular contact with each other.
> 
> ...




It depends... I can try to make a game where the story follows you or a game where you have to follow the story. Where do I draw the line between Plot and Railroad?

I have some ideas for a couple of quests that you can take, a general idea of what the NPCs may be doing as a reaction to your actions and the actions of other NPCs, a primitive model of the game in my head. But for the why of it all... Survival is only the most basic and important of your likely goals (your goals as PCs are up to you of course, I'm not telling you what your characters have to think), and it is the need for survival that I'm hoping will ensure group-cohesion. It is quite possible to prosper even in ths world. There are humans (and other mortals) in positions of power, two of them are even Lords in their own right. The world is rich and full of power for the taking and power can be used, if not always for the greater good then for the lesser evil.  
I'd prefer if the PCs were part of a team, it would be easier for me and safer for them if they were, but even as parts of a team they can still have individual agendas to pursue along with the immediate goals of the group. In my experience a character without a personal agenda, not something general like saving the world or somehow gaining wealth and power, is little more than an empty shell of stats.

Still, I can see why you asked the question. I hope I've managed to give you the answer you wanted.


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## ethandrew (Aug 13, 2007)

Okay, so mechanically I have two options that I'm running through my head, and I wanted thoughts. I was thinking: 

Transmuter 3 | Master Specialist 6 | Master of the Unseen Hand 4

or

Vow of Poverty Druid 5 | Master of Many Forms 8

Curious, requirements for Master Specialist states a couple class skills at 5 ranks and the ability to cast 2nd level spells. Would you interpret that as being able to qualify for the PrC at 3rd level, when you have the ability to cast 2nd level spells? Or at 4th level, which is what I've listed above.


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## WarlockLord (Aug 13, 2007)

Hi.  Sorry I'm late.  I was wondering if I could get in with an Archivist11/Alienist 1/Contemplative 1.  Kind of the "dark summoner, knower of forbidden lore, wielder of the darkness, etc" IC, and for a more metagamey version, a "what in the Nine Hells is that?" guy.   He'd be against the lords, but only to increase his power.  Not of depravity, but seeks to prevent it.  Neither a servant of the fallen lord of sacrifice nor a servant of self,yet seeks to restore the balance.  For only with one can the other survive.

Fine with depravity, just no porn.  I like dark stuff, though.

The archivist is here. I'd use contemplative to get the Balance domain from SC, if you'd allow it.  Warrior of balance is almost never done, but is a fascinating concept in it's own right.

Does this sound good to you?


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## Fenris2 (Aug 13, 2007)

Hmm, how about a shadowy fighter/rogue sort, undead thrown in for fun?  Probably pull the shadow creature template from lords of madness and a +0/1 LA undead such as necropolitan or crypt spawn..

Alternatively a were bat monk. Isn't a dark world appropriate for "bat man" after all?

Third.. um, psionic guy, probably an ardent...


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## Shayuri (Aug 13, 2007)

I think I'd better withdraw.

Not gelling for me. I don't do evil very well anyway. I need to empathize with my PC too much.

Have fun all.


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## Blackrat (Aug 13, 2007)

Now I have a consept. This is something that has been running through my brain from time to time but I have never had a chance to play it. A kobold Druid/Sorcerer/Mythic theurge. He is a bit insane, having delusions of grandeur, believing that he is a great dragon imprisoned to this weak body. And if you are willing to pull it through he could also hear voices in his mind and have even some minor hallucinations.


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## WarlockLord (Aug 13, 2007)

I think I will follow Shayuri and bow out.  My guy would clash with an evil party, and I'm not really comfortable with graphic scenes of BoVD nature.  Sorry to take up time, and I hope the rest of you have fun.


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## Jemal (Aug 13, 2007)

Ya know Warlock, so far we have 2 good characters (Me and Caros) and one who is probably more good than evil (Autumn).  It's NOT an EVIL group.
As for the Graphic scenes.. What are you talking about?  There's not gonna be any sex/porn b/c that's not allowed on ENWorld, and as for the rest.. Describing gore isn't all that graphic or bad usually.  Not sure what kind of 'graphic scenes' you're expecting.

Also, Nephtys - You seem to be of the mind that if we can't kill all the badguys we have to be evil... I'm not sure how 'evil' the world is, but unless we're physically FORCED at every step of the way to commit crimes, we can still lead perfectly GOOD lives.

You said 


> many of his actions, though done for his idea of the greater good, will have evil consequences. He may still be able to make a difference in the world, some evils are lesser than others, but even his victories may turn bitter in the end.



I'm not sure what you mean by that... ANYTHING can have bad consequences, whether the world's evil or good.  
What it sounds like you're saying is that _nothing_ good can come of anything we do, and that we should EXPECT everything to turn out bad, b/c any good deed will be automatically twisted to something bad.. So for example, if I feed a starving child, that means that he'll grow up to be a rapist...  Or if I prevent someone from being mugged, he'll go on to kill somebody.  If I rescue someone who's been kidnapped, I find out that they're actually the secret mastermind behind an evil cult that sacrifices a hundred innocents a week...

ON the other hand...


> The problem with the good aligned is that there is not always a good path open to them. I want the PCs to be proactive and a good character can, perhaps, cause the game to slow down because the options available seem less attractive to them than they do to neutral or evil characters



Unless you're telling us "These are your ONLY options, don't think outside the box", that's just plain not true.  The only way you can come up with a problem that DOESN't have both a good AND an evil solution IS by railroading.  I've yet to come across a situation (that wasn't 100% Contrived) where I couldn't fairly easily see both the evil and good way to deal with it.
Can you give me some example of what you think is going to cause good characters problems other than the fact that there's a lot of demons in the world?


----------



## Neurotic (Aug 13, 2007)

*Defender*

If you allow mix of demi human and planetouched I'd play dwarf mineral genasi, otherwise sacred dwarf from Quintessential dwarf. If fully eradicated then human teatium knight of tolgarium, guardian of Crystal Spire (enclave of wizards, artificers and keepers of human/dwarven/elven/other lore)

Something along the lines of Fig2/Clr(Dumathoin)3/Deepwarden2/Dwarven defender 5 or 6 depending if genasi (+1 ECL).

If human then Fig4/knight of tolgarien9

One of rare dwarves, Ebon of Crystal Spire is guardian of hidden enclave and explorer of deep places searching for both materials to combat demons and way back to his home plane of elemental crystal...

If defending his home can be made proactive by going out and bringing fight to the enemy all the better.


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## Autumn (Aug 13, 2007)

To throw in my two cents, Jemal, I think all Nephtys is saying is that in a world where demons hold ultimate sway, it's somewhat tricky to achieve any power - and therefore any capacity for making things better - without getting your hands very dirty. You can refuse to cosy up with the demon lords, sure, but in that case your life is likely to turn very short, very unpleasant, and very much a lost cause so far as doing any good is concerned. Or else you can walk that line, retaining the demon lords' favor whilst trying your best to do some good along the way. But in that case, it's likely that you're going to have to do a lot of things that don't sit right with you in order to maintain yourself in a position of power. 



> many of his actions, though done for his idea of the greater good, will have evil consequences. He may still be able to make a difference in the world, some evils are lesser than others, but even his victories may turn bitter in the end.




 The way I understand this is in the light of what I've said above. For the greater good, your character might need to do some very bad things. If he takes the path of virtue every time, he'll be trampled underfoot. 

 Trying to do good in a society like that isn't easy. To take a real world parallel, look at Nazi Germany. For those people who recognized the evil of what the state was doing and wanted to make it better, what were their options? Yes, they could stand up and say 'this is wrong' - that's the path of virtue, and it would have got them arrested instantly. They would have done no good whatsoever. 

 Or else they could attempt to gain a position of power within the hierarchy and then do what they could to alleviate the horror à la Schindler's List. But that would mean complicity in many, many horrible things along the road that got you to the position where you could help out. And even once you're there, the amount of good you can do might seem a little bit like pissing in the ocean. 

 No wonder that in the real world, many people chose simply to flee to avoid complicity with a situation that they hated but could do nothing about. 

 In this setting that's not an option. 

 Of course, this is DnD, so whilst the baddies are supersized into demons, the goodies are supersized too. We do actually have the remote chance of attaining so much personal power that we can make a very real and very dramatic change. So the option of collaboration for the greater good suddenly seems much more attractive. 

 * * * 

 That, any way, is how I have been looking at it. Forgive me if it was presumptuous to go into all that, obviously I'm not Nephtys and I don't speak for him. Just trying to give my input on how I see the setting.


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## Shayuri (Aug 13, 2007)

Or they could join the underground Resistance...supply aid and shelter to rebels...help smuggle people out of the country...

Dangerous, yeah, but doesn't require complicity...and it doesn't require more power than any citizen has.

But it would only really work if everyone wanted to do it.


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## Nephtys (Aug 13, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> Okay, so mechanically I have two options that I'm running through my head, and I wanted thoughts. I was thinking:
> 
> Transmuter 3 | Master Specialist 6 | Master of the Unseen Hand 4
> 
> ...




The vow of Poverty is actually one exalted feat that would be appropriate for the game (but I'll need to see it in writing anyway since I only have a general impression of it and don't know the details). If the prerequisites involve being absolutely completely good all the time... well I'm the DM I can change the prerequisites if I want. There is power in self denial, wether you are good or evil.

I interpret it so that you can take you first level as the Prc after you've gained the ability to cast 2nd level spells, not just when you're about to gain that ability. You need to be a 3rd level transmuter first, just like you wrote above. 




			
				WarlockLord said:
			
		

> Hi.  Sorry I'm late.  I was wondering if I could get in with an Archivist11/Alienist 1/Contemplative 1.  Kind of the "dark summoner, knower of forbidden lore, wielder of the darkness, etc" IC, and for a more metagamey version, a "what in the Nine Hells is that?" guy.   He'd be against the lords, but only to increase his power.  Not of depravity, but seeks to prevent it.  Neither a servant of the fallen lord of sacrifice nor a servant of self,yet seeks to restore the balance.  For only with one can the other survive.
> 
> Fine with depravity, just no porn.  I like dark stuff, though.
> 
> ...




You're not late. Welcome WarlockLord .

The Archivist seems pretty balanced compared with the cleric, but you'll have to show me the other non-srd material too. It's a good choice for this game. Your character also seems like he'd be able to get along well with most of the other consepts I've seen.

It sounds good.




			
				Fenris2 said:
			
		

> Hmm, how about a shadowy fighter/rogue sort, undead thrown in for fun?  Probably pull the shadow creature template from lords of madness and a +0/1 LA undead such as necropolitan or crypt spawn..
> 
> Alternatively a were bat monk. Isn't a dark world appropriate for "bat man" after all?
> 
> Third.. um, psionic guy, probably an ardent...




Undead, lycantropes (and psionics) are all appropriate. But if you're making an evil character consider that he'll have to be able to cooperate with non-evil characters. Still, even as an undead he'd be the lesser of two evils and if you don't betray the group openly it should be ok. When it comes down to it all the PCs will have to adapt to the situation and find their reasons to work together at least most of the time.  




			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> I think I'd better withdraw.
> 
> Not gelling for me. I don't do evil very well anyway. I need to empathize with my PC too much.
> 
> Have fun all.




 I'm sorry you feel that way. It's not that you have to be evil, you just have to adapt to the fact that evil rules the world. 



			
				Blackrat said:
			
		

> Now I have a consept. This is something that has been running through my brain from time to time but I have never had a chance to play it. A goblin Druid/Sorcerer/Mythic theurge. He is a bit insane, having delusions of grandeur, believing that he is a great dragon imprisoned to this weak body. And if you are willing to pull it through he could also hear voices in his mind and have even some minor hallucinations.




A comic relief guy, or a tragic figure, or both? There's no lack of madmen in the world, an insane character would be right at home. Just try not to make him too silly, the flavour of the game is quite dark, but there's still room for some twisted comedy. 




			
				WarlockLord said:
			
		

> I think I will follow Shayuri and bow out.  My guy would clash with an evil party, and I'm not really comfortable with graphic scenes of BoVD nature.  Sorry to take up time, and I hope the rest of you have fun.




That's a pity, your character seemed perfectly suited for the game. As far as the graphic scenes... really it's just text, you probably see worse things on tv every day. The concepts can be morally disgusting, but not really likely to physically disgust or frighten an adult it's mostly stuff like:

"The man was bound and stripped of his skin, ribbons of poorly flayed hide still hang encrusted in filthy blood along his sides and back. Apparently the one who had murdered him had been in a hurry or driven by an uncontrollable rage. Looking closer you see things moving inside his flesh." 

"She screamed, and a torrent of mucous exploded from her mouth burning your characters skin. Looking down at the seared skin of his chest he notices a couple of tiny chunks of flesh among the semi-digested mess, what can only be a little finger clinging by its infants fingernail to his skin for a moment before dropping to the floor. 'And you never thought you'd see your little girl again,' she cackles, wiping her chin. Smiling she watches you, a contemptuous glimt in her eye as she prepares her bloated body for his reaction." 

"'Why do you think we invaded your world in the first place? To plunder, kill, revel in destruction for its own sake? We're Greater Beings, do not take us for just another orc-horde in a different skin. This is where souls are made, you live for the harvest. But your lives are not short enough, you are not fertile enough to sate our needs and you are too hard to manage for some of us. That is why we created the Towers of Life.' Her voice takes on an enraptured tone as she continues her tale, her monstrous words sliding life caresses into your ears.
'Imagine, a hundred thousand wombs blown up to the size of houses inside still living women, each of them packed full of identical feati growing at an accelerated pace drawing life from her pain, each woman packed into concentric circles within a frame of stone and steel rising to the clouds. A hundred thousand women, a hundred million children ripening to the harvest every year... Do you understand now why the Towers must not fall? In our hunger we would exterminate you all within a decade.
Ingarr, the fool, would starve his own power all because of his mindless need for destruction. He must die, but he cannot fall for demonic hand. No, I need mortals to save mortalkind."

Basically nothing worse than what you can read in Piratcat's Story Hour (though worse in quality, I'll admit).



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what you mean by that... ANYTHING can have bad consequences, whether the world's evil or good.
> What it sounds like you're saying is that _nothing_ good can come of anything we do, and that we should EXPECT everything to turn out bad, b/c any good deed will be automatically twisted to something bad.. So for example, if I feed a starving child, that means that he'll grow up to be a rapist...  Or if I prevent someone from being mugged, he'll go on to kill somebody.  If I rescue someone who's been kidnapped, I find out that they're actually the secret mastermind behind an evil cult that sacrifices a hundred innocents a week...
> 
> ON the other hand...
> ...




You're perfectly free to think your way out of any box. My purpose with the game is not to torture or humiliate your characters or to dictate your actions, I'm only telling you that playing good alignments will be morally challenging. Sometimes good intentions do pave the road to hell, sometimes you're damned if you do and damned if you don't. In an evil world evil is the path of least resistance, and the good path can be narrow and muddy and full of pitfalls.
Say you want to get rid of the demons, because you're good aligned or you just don't like them very much. Now, how would you go about doing that? The obvious answer, causing a civil war, will lead not only to the demons being decimated but also to hundreds of millions of mortals being killed in the process. Still, if you get rid of the demons you've spared the potential billions of future generations a life in suffering and a death in damnation. But who knows? Maybe all the deaths will be for nothing, maybe there will emerge a demonic lord strong enough from his victory to make himself a King and rule the world forever, drawing on the souls of the dead to make himself too powerful to ever be overthrown? Or maybe enough demons will die that an alliance of mortals can take back the world. Even such an alliance would likely be dominated by evil mortals, since they have been better adapted to the world they grew up in.

Hey, looks like I've given you a plot-line .




			
				Neurotic said:
			
		

> If you allow mix of demi human and planetouched I'd play dwarf mineral genasi, otherwise sacred dwarf from Quintessential dwarf. If fully eradicated then human teatium knight of tolgarium, guardian of Crystal Spire (enclave of wizards, artificers and keepers of human/dwarven/elven/other lore)
> 
> Something along the lines of Fig2/Clr(Dumathoin)3/Deepwarden2/Dwarven defender 5 or 6 depending if genasi (+1 ECL).
> 
> ...




Lots of classes and templates I've never heard of there (which I need to see to be able to approve or use), but dwarves have strong links to the element of stone and your character could easily be native to the world even with such a template. Planestravelling is hard, basically it only works safely trough a handful of portals all under the control of the Lords, it has to be or you'd all be sipping cocktails in Elysium by now. But your character and his ancestors could easily have been born in the world.
If he comes from an enclave it will not be easy for him to ever get back there. The enclaves are defended fanatically and they're all pretty paranoid by now. Those who leave almost never come back and those who try are suspected of being trojan horses for the Demons. Still, knowing that only makes your character a greater hero.

Yeah, and Welcome 



			
				Autumn said:
			
		

> To throw in my two cents, Jemal, I think all Nephtys is saying is that in a world where demons hold ultimate sway, it's somewhat tricky to achieve any power - and therefore any capacity for making things better - without getting your hands very dirty. You can refuse to cosy up with the demon lords, sure, but in that case your life is likely to turn very short, very unpleasant, and very much a lost cause so far as doing any good is concerned. Or else you can walk that line, retaining the demon lords' favor whilst trying your best to do some good along the way. But in that case, it's likely that you're going to have to do a lot of things that don't sit right with you in order to maintain yourself in a position of power.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




You've been reading my mind... STOP IT! (Just kidding, thanks for understanding ).




			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> Or they could join the underground Resistance...supply aid and shelter to rebels...help smuggle people out of the country...
> 
> Dangerous, yeah, but doesn't require complicity...and it doesn't require more power than any citizen has.
> 
> But it would only really work if everyone wanted to do it.




Good point. The portals are under Demonic control. But demons will be demons, they're not the best organized type of people (Kinda like the Nazis who were pretty damn chaotic evil at times, the nazi-state was a disorganised mess, the order was all superficial, (mental) disorder was the rule. The army otoh, was a well oiled machine when the nazis didn't interfere too much. But, eh, no talking politics on En-World, so back to the game...)


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## Blackrat (Aug 13, 2007)

I actually edited it a bit while you were writing. I thought a kobold would be more enjoyable. I was actually thinking more of a serious madman, perhaps somekind of seer(with the problem that some of his visions are just hallucinations), a tragic figure who just believes himself to be better than others. He kind of looks down upon those not of scalykind. Although his claims to be a dragon might get a pitying smile from others.


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## Trollbabe (Aug 13, 2007)

Autumn said:
			
		

> I'm drawn towards the idea of playing a Bard in a setting like this. A wandering chancer who's so far managed to keep just about above water by playing the right games with the right people at the right times, but who is always on the edge of going too far and coming to a sticky end. Also probably not, in the end, a bad person. Perhaps driven to try as far as possible to bring a little light into people's lives, but forced to make a lot of bad compromises in order to carry on with that work.



I really like the idea for this game unfortunately it seems Autumn and I think too much alike... This is very similar to an idea I had in mind. I'll try and think up a different concept. Should full character sheets be posted in this thread or just concepts? If that has already been discussed I must have missed it in my readings.


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## Neurotic (Aug 13, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Lots of classes and templates I've never heard of there (which I need to see to be able to approve or use), but dwarves have strong links to the element of stone and your character could easily be native to the world even with such a template. Planestravelling is hard, basically it only works safely trough a handful of portals all under the control of the Lords, it has to be or you'd all be sipping cocktails in Elysium by now. But your character and his ancestors could easily have been born in the world.
> If he comes from an enclave it will not be easy for him to ever get back there. The enclaves are defended fanatically and they're all pretty paranoid by now. Those who leave almost never come back and those who try are suspected of being trojan horses for the Demons. Still, knowing that only makes your character a greater hero.




I would discuss mechanical details privately. Anyhow, sacred dwarves are subrace that lived for generations on earth elemental planes searching for exotic ores. as they lived through more and more of the plane entered their blood...I'll send you transcript of subrace or whole file (30MB)...

As for mineral genasi: http://users.erols.com/aburner/planescape/index.html
See Inheritors of glittering stones.

Telatium knights are kind of elemental paladins for one church (Telatium)...different elements = different roles: healers (air), inquisitors (fire), messenger (water) and soldiers and guardians (earth). Not all have to be LG that's "kind of paladins". They all have lay on hands and several powers depending on element. Very limited list of spells that could be cast only from armor runes. that's about it.

As for the history: eventually Ebon realises that just sitting in a tower and killing things that stumble upon it is futile. Sooner or later something powerfull will come and live to tell the tale. Once that happens Lords will come. He is aware that returning might be a problem, but still feels that he needs to go out and DO SOMETHING FREAKING USEFULL 

In my old group we treated genasi as template so you can have fire genasi that looks more like azer then drow  But that depends on you ofcourse...


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## Jemal (Aug 13, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Or they could join the underground Resistance...supply aid and shelter to rebels...help smuggle people out of the country...
> 
> Dangerous, yeah, but doesn't require complicity...and it doesn't require more power than any citizen has.
> 
> But it would only really work if everyone wanted to do it.




Hmm.. So taking that and what Neph said, would you be willing to hitch along with me on my quest to restore peace to the galaxy.. er, I mean to help the poor souls of this world?


BTW, Neph - I have a mostly complete character background in my head, I'm gonna write it out, but essentially it boils down to : The only son of one of the Evil Human Lords, but after His father slew his wife and stole his child for disobeying orders, He decided to oppose the evils he had previously stood for.  Chased out of his fathers lands, He hid in a neutral monastery, where he was found by a secretive organization known as the SHadow Knights, who trained him in the ways of the GreyGuard.


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## Trollbabe (Aug 13, 2007)

Ok I came up with an idea for a _5th level Ranger / 8th level Assassin_. He would be _Neutral Evil_ with a need for survival and as a result very self serving. I still think he would work in a group to ensure his safety even though he has an evil alignment. I can elaborate more on his story and background if required.

[sblock=Aeryk Voss]I am Aeryk Voss... I was a Black Cowl… an assassin in the employment of the Demonlords. For killing who they tell me to kill I myself see another day. The trick is to not draw too much attention, remain faceless and nameless. The Black Cowl’s are traitors in the eyes of many, we turned our back on our mortal brethren and joined the “dark side”. I don’t buy that sorta talk though... when a Demonlord comes calling, you answer. If I had not agreed to join the Black Cowls my soul would’a been tossed to the dretch to squabble over as a play thing.

The demons have no care for us though… they just use us as pawns. Members rarely work together so we operate as individuals, that suits me fine. Our leader is an unnamed Shadow of a creature maybe a man more then likely a demon. So Shadow contacts me with a target… a vrock captain that is to be eliminated.

I do it quick, I don’t even think the vulture knew he had it coming. But the tricks on me cause his allies were aware… they probably were the ones that ordered it in the first place. They drag me kicking and screaming to a torture chamber and I am cut, bruised and violated. I keep wondering why they don’t kill me and get it over with. That’s when the Shadow comes in and asks me if I am enjoying my stay. I’ve been framed! Some sort of scape goat... at some point I musta become expendable.

When they left me alone I manage to slip my bonds and with a lot of luck I escape the place their holding me. So everyman for himself… If the demons don’t get ya something else will. My wounds have healed, but the scars are not going anywhere. Maybe its best they don’t, fuel for my fire I guess. One things for sure I am looking out for number one, but a little revenge would suit me fine.[/sblock]


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## s@squ@tch (Aug 13, 2007)

I am interested -- but I am on vacation until this weekend.

My character concept would be a rogue-ish sort.

Rogue 3/Wizard 5/Arcane Trickster 5

or

Rogue 3/Cleric 3/Blackflame Zealot 7  (depending on the pantheon)

or 

Rogue 13

or 

Fighter 2/Rogue 11

Most likely the 1st, 3rd or 4th option -- would be a CN character who basically uses his skills to survive, hiding under the radar.

Races considering are Human, Tiefling, or Drow.


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## Nephtys (Aug 13, 2007)

*closing recruitment*

Just dropping by right now, I'll get back to your questions and comments later. 

It seems I have a good number of interested players already, so to keep down the risk of too many people being disappointed I'm closing recruitment for now.
To help me get a compatible group together I'd like all of you to just post one line with your characters alignment (Very Good, Good, Neutral, Evil or Very Evil, and likewise for law and chaos) and which alignments you think your character would be able to cooperate with in a group (keeping in mind the lesser of two evils, and the nature of the world).


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## Jemal (Aug 13, 2007)

Good, though able to work with any alignment (Except VERY evil/Vile.).
He's not too fond of Chaos, but in light of all the evil, it doesn't matter so much right now.


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## ethandrew (Aug 13, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> The vow of Poverty is actually one exalted feat that would be appropriate for the game (but I'll need to see it in writing anyway since I only have a general impression of it and don't know the details). If the prerequisites involve being absolutely completely good all the time... well I'm the DM I can change the prerequisites if I want. There is power in self denial, wether you are good or evil.




I should clarify that I am not planning on being evil. If I go Transmuter I'll probably be NG or TN, if I go Druid I'd probably be CG. Like Shayuri I wasn't really feeling the wanton destruction and manipulation to better our position, and wasn't really understanding how that would translate into cohesive group play. But after all this clarification it makes a lot more sense to me. I'm getting that we'll probably have a good solid core of Good characters with a couple evil ones mixed it.

Vow of Poverty, taken over these 13 levels, will bestow a character these abilities:

-+8 Exalted Bonus to AC
-Bonus exalted feats at 1st, 2nd, 4th, 6th, 8th, 10th, and 12th Levels
-Permanent Endure Elements
-Exalted Strike of +2 - Any weapon becomes a +2 Magical Weapon
-Sustenance - No need to eat or drink
-+2 Deflection Bonus to AC
-+2 Resistance Bonus to Saving Throws
-Ability Score Enhancements - +4 to one, +2 to another
-+1 Natural Armor Bonus
-Mind Shielding - immune to Detect Thoughts, Discern Lies, any alignment detector
-DR 5/Magic
-Greater Sustenance - No need to breathe
-Energy Resistance 5 - acid, fire, cold, electricity, sonic

And I think that's all. The plus side, Master of Many forms doesn't progress in spell levels, so this character will only have access to 3rd level spells. And exalted feats are pretty weak.


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## Shayuri (Aug 13, 2007)

Hmm...well I have to say I think I have a clearer idea now how it all could work. 

I see you've closed recruitment, but if you'll allow it, I'll submit a character.


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## Autumn (Aug 13, 2007)

My Bard will be Moderately Chaotic and Moderately Good. She'll be happy to work with any alignments except Very Good (because she's not stupid). Very Evil is fine; she's used to it. She won't be about to confide in them or make them her special allies, but she won't shun them either. She's used to working (and... other things...) with demons and their various minions, so working alongside nasty people is no problem. 

 For the record, anybody involved in any kind of resistance movement isn't likely to find an ally in her. They would have to do a LOT of convincing her that it was feasible and stood a real chance of success before she'd be willing to put herself on the line like that. If this is going to be a 'join the resistance and slay the evil' game then I'll shelve her... and actually I'll probably bow out of the game too in that case. I'm sure it'd still be fun and all, but it wouldn't capture my imagination in the same way. 

 A quick question, Nephtys; how long ago did the demons seize power? Are we talking within our characters' memories? A couple of generations back? Or a century or more?


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## Bloosquig (Aug 13, 2007)

Crud lose my computer for 2 hours and now recruitments closed.  Ah well I'll keep an eye on it in case anything happens to open a spot later.  Good luck folks!


----------



## WarlockLord (Aug 14, 2007)

Alright, I apologize for my earlier foolishness.  I'll come back in.  Please forgive my idiocy.  

The Alienist requires Augment Summoning, the ability to cast 3rd level summonings, & 8 ranks in planar knowledge.  At level 1, it grants the ability to summons pseudonatural creatures instead of fiendish/celestial critters,  but you can no longer summon non fiendish/celestial creatures.  This only applies to summon monster.  Good fort, poor ref and will, bad BAB.  Full casting.

Contemplative requires 13 ranks in religious knowledge, the ability to cast 1st level divine spells, and meeting a being that is a paragon of it's alignment. 1st level gives immunity to disease at level 1 and a domain (but no bonus slots).

I will only take 1 level in each of these classes.  I can post the balance domain and psuedonatural templates later.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 14, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Welcome Gli'jar.
> That would be ok, but you'll have to show me the classes, write up their class features for me. If they are not absurdly overpowered or just plain feel wrong for the game (like the exalted classes) I will approve them. It's the same for spells and items, so to spare yourself too much work I advise you to keep mainly to the core materials.
> The Alienist, as far as I recall the class, seems like a good fit. The gods raised their walls to protect the world from the multiverse, knowing little of the beings who lurk beyond reality... There may be some links to the Rotting God, and others to some of the less sane of the Lords like the Trembling One, Ubilith, the Creeper or the Lady of Flowers.




I am leaning towards a Conjurer Variant (SRD) 5/alienist 8. The alienist abilities are as follows, beginning from level 2 since WarlockLord covered level 1. Alien Blessing at level 2  +1 insight bonus to saves but permanent loses 2 wis. At 3rd and at 7th, Metamagic secret, choose any metamagic feat as a bonus feat. At 4th, Mad Certainty gain 3hp but gain -4 to diplomacy, bluff and handle animals to influence nonpseudonatural creatures. At 5th Pseudonatural Familar, familar takes pseudonatural template.  Extra Summoning at 6th grants an extra slot for summon spells at the highest level slot. At 8 Insane Certainty,  gain 3 hp but gain -10 to diplomacy, bluff and handle animals to influence nonpseudonatural creatures (Mad certainty turns into a truly chilling mania. 9th is Timeless Body where I can no longer be aged and Alien Transcendence where one become an outsider, gains dr10/,agic, resis acid and elec 10. Further I grow a minor physical change like growing a tentacle, extra eye, appendage, etc. 

I can work for some insane lord or for an outside being who lurks beyond reality whichever works for your world. I was planning to take the Omniscient Whispers spelltouched feat (Variant rules SRD) as it adds to the flavor rather nicely. Either way, I think he will work well with other characters so long as he is able to further his goals of either opening a portal beyond reality or getting rid of other conspiring lords to further his insane master's agenda. Neutral evil potentially as opposed to the crazed CN.

Are flaws and traits permissible?


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## Gli'jar (Aug 14, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> Transmuter 3 | Master Specialist 6 | Master of the Unseen Hand 4
> 
> Curious, requirements for Master Specialist states a couple class skills at 5 ranks and the ability to cast 2nd level spells. Would you interpret that as being able to qualify for the PrC at 3rd level, when you have the ability to cast 2nd level spells? Or at 4th level, which is what I've listed above.




The class was designed for early entry according to the designers,  so yes 3 levels as a specialist wizard and then you qualify to take it at level 4.


----------



## Fenris2 (Aug 14, 2007)

Hmm, i think the interweb ate a post.

I will go with the fighter/rougish sort/dervish probably.  Likely N or LN.  undead.

1st goal: restore his love to life or un-life really.  

2nd: depends on how the group plays out or what they do.

I will have bg wedish, RL is plain mean to me early this week


----------



## Neurotic (Aug 14, 2007)

*Dwarf*

Ebon would be quite lawful in that he is loyal to his enclave and Crystalle, would be loyal to his emplyer who ever that was and on good/evil would be neutral essestialy doing what is ordered with more or less regret but not really losing any sleep over it. Without orders he tends towards good as most dwarves do.

Could you post players who would likely be in the game in one post?


----------



## Blackrat (Aug 14, 2007)

I'm not actually sure about my kobolds exact alignment. On Good-Evil axis he will be neutral but due to his madness his take on Law-Chaos axis will be more fluid. So probably true neutral.


----------



## Wrahn (Aug 14, 2007)

I would like to put my name in the hat of alternates, if a spot does open up.


----------



## Trollbabe (Aug 15, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> To help me get a compatible group together I'd like all of you to just post one line with your characters alignment (Very Good, Good, Neutral, Evil or Very Evil, and likewise for law and chaos) and which alignments you think your character would be able to cooperate with in a group (keeping in mind the lesser of two evils, and the nature of the world).



Aeryk would be Evil, primarily because he is self serving and willing to do what ever is needed to survive. He has little compassion or regret.

As far as Law vs Chaos... he is right down the middle. Aeryk is no lover of law or complete order as personal freedom is important to him. However, demon rule and the chaos that ensues from it has shown him that some order is required.


----------



## Nephtys (Aug 15, 2007)

Blackrat said:
			
		

> I actually edited it a bit while you were writing. I thought a kobold would be more enjoyable. I was actually thinking more of a serious madman, perhaps somekind of seer(with the problem that some of his visions are just hallucinations), a tragic figure who just believes himself to be better than others. He kind of looks down upon those not of scalykind. Although his claims to be a dragon might get a pitying smile from others.




The Kobold nations, because of their lawful nature and their alliances to dragonkind were nearly exterminated in the war, wiped out by the hordes of Yangava. All that's left is a broken and scattered remnant. And a good reason for your character to be mad. 




			
				Trollbabe said:
			
		

> I really like the idea for this game unfortunately it seems Autumn and I think too much alike... This is very similar to an idea I had in mind. I'll try and think up a different concept. Should full character sheets be posted in this thread or just concepts? If that has already been discussed I must have missed it in my readings.




Welcome Trollbabe . 

You're right, two bards may be one too many, but there are a lot of other charisma based classes around.

Concepts are enough, but I need a bit more depth that I've got from anyone so far. Some background, a little personality, perhaps some plot hooks, and a mention of which role your character would play in combat. 15-20 lines of text would be good.




			
				Neurotic said:
			
		

> I would discuss mechanical details privately. Anyhow, sacred dwarves are subrace that lived for generations on earth elemental planes searching for exotic ores. as they lived through more and more of the plane entered their blood...I'll send you transcript of subrace or whole file (30MB)...
> 
> As for mineral genasi: http://users.erols.com/aburner/planescape/index.html
> See Inheritors of glittering stones.
> ...





The Genasi could be a template (they are basically just part-elementals right, like half fiends or tieflings?). Which LA do you think would be balanced?

Feel free to E-mail me anything you don't want to post in the thread: ecaf99x@xhotmail.com (without the x's)

There is something else about the enclaves you should consider, if you haven't already. The demons want in, a lot. And if they realise where your character is from he'll be in quite a difficult situation.
The reason why the remaining enclaves have survived this long (20 years) is that they are all extremely strong natural and/or constructed fortifications in remote areas (often underground) protected from teleportation and other magics and Forbidden to demons by powerful artifacts or natural magical radiation. They are, as a rule, full of treasure brought there by the elites of the old world and protected by some of the most powerful individuals in the world. To the demons their very existance is hateful, their continued defiance an aggravating insult and their hidden wealth and prestige makes their conquest an important step in their endless contest to gain power over each others. They do not regard the enclaves as a threat, except in the event that their rivals would grow greater trough their capture.
Your character should take steps to make sure that noone can read his mind or otherwise extract his knowlege about his home because the Demons, though they cannot attack his enclave directly, have plenty of mortal and undead servants who can.




			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> Hmm.. So taking that and what Neph said, would you be willing to hitch along with me on my quest to restore peace to the galaxy.. er, I mean to help the poor souls of this world?
> 
> 
> BTW, Neph - I have a mostly complete character background in my head, I'm gonna write it out, but essentially it boils down to : The only son of one of the Evil Human Lords, but after His father slew his wife and stole his child for disobeying orders, He decided to oppose the evils he had previously stood for.  Chased out of his fathers lands, He hid in a neutral monastery, where he was found by a secretive organization known as the SHadow Knights, who trained him in the ways of the GreyGuard.




"Luke, I am your father. Join me and we can defeat our demonic enemies and rule the galaxy together..."
Cool. 

The Human Lords are: 
The Artificer of Ogaan, aka the traitor, aka Avos Ignatius, rules his old home-land of Supresa (an area the size of France with 25 million souls) with an iron fist and near diabolical organisation. A specialist of magical creation, both of items and twisted creatures he treats his domain as a source of raw materials but takes care not to deplete his stock. Because of an ambitions education programme Supresa is the world's center of the production of magical items and is probably the country in the world that is richest in gold.
The Artificer was one of the Lords who contributed to the erection of the Towers of Life and as such reaps a large share of their harvest to fuel his ever-increasing need for souls.

Cormand, fiendish a human from the abyss, and one of the consorts of the Succubus Lady Love seems to be deep under her sway, but perceptions can be deceptive. His domain, an area of deserts the size and shape of the Sahara is poor in souls but rich in ores, even of the rarest kind. Still, Kalesh is considered the weakest of the ordered domains and Cormand, lacking a reserve of soul-components to fuel his epic spells that comes close to most others of the spellcasting Lords is wise to ally himself closely to those who are stronger than himself. Because of his apparent poverty in Souls few demons follow him, but he holds great powers over the undead.
Of his two epic apprentices only Ilva remains, but her wereabouts are unknown.




			
				Trollbabe said:
			
		

> Ok I came up with an idea for a _5th level Ranger / 8th level Assassin_. He would be _Neutral Evil_ with a need for survival and as a result very self serving. I still think he would work in a group to ensure his safety even though he has an evil alignment. I can elaborate more on his story and background if required.
> 
> 
> [sblock=Aeryk Voss]I am Aeryk Voss... I was a Black Cowl… an assassin in the employment of the Demonlords. For killing who they tell me to kill I myself see another day. The trick is to not draw too much attention, remain faceless and nameless. The Black Cowl’s are traitors in the eyes of many, we turned our back on our mortal brethren and joined the “dark side”. I don’t buy that sorta talk though... when a Demonlord comes calling, you answer. If I had not agreed to join the Black Cowls my soul would’a been tossed to the dretch to squabble over as a play thing.
> ...




I like it, he suits the setting perfectly. 

Poisons are common in most of the world and sold for 1/4 of their normal price.




			
				s@squ@tch said:
			
		

> I am interested -- but I am on vacation until this weekend.
> 
> My character concept would be a rogue-ish sort.
> 
> ...




There are no Drow (if there were I'd have to involve Lolth and that would open up a great big can of worms as far as Abyssal politics is concerned), and I haven't given the Pantheon much thought.
The Gods still grant spells to their followers, but are unable to intervene actively in the world. They are gradually weakening (they've been losing their worshipers ever since the Gods-War ended) but it's accellerated greatly in the 20 years since the Fall.

There's the Rotting God, the former head of the pantheon. He once held the domains of Creation, Glory, Sun, Law and Nobility, alignment LN.
His corpse lies rotting since millennia in a tropical swamp deep in a rain-forest in the Domain of the Lady of Flowers, crawling with abominations who seem to worship him even as they violate his flesh. 
His clerics somehow still get their spells, but he seldom answers any prayers and seems to be unaware, insane and powerless. Where the spells really come from noone really knows, though the clerics insist the God is still with them.

As for the other Gods, feel free to make up your own. 




			
				ethandrew said:
			
		

> I should clarify that I am not planning on being evil. If I go Transmuter I'll probably be NG or TN, if I go Druid I'd probably be CG. Like Shayuri I wasn't really feeling the wanton destruction and manipulation to better our position, and wasn't really understanding how that would translate into cohesive group play. But after all this clarification it makes a lot more sense to me. I'm getting that we'll probably have a good solid core of Good characters with a couple evil ones mixed it.
> 
> Vow of Poverty, taken over these 13 levels, will bestow a character these abilities:
> 
> ...




I just meant that the feat could be made available even to Evil characters with some minor adaptations for flavour. 

It looks ok, but without knowing which exalted feats there are (and which you would choose) I can't say anything definately. If they involve things like always having to help those in need, always telling the truth, smiting all evil (I have no idea) then you will have a problem.




			
				Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm...well I have to say I think I have a clearer idea now how it all could work.
> 
> I see you've closed recruitment, but if you'll allow it, I'll submit a character.




As far as I'm concerned it's all just a little misunderstanding. I could have expressed my thoughts better and I accept my responsibility for what happened. You're welcome back .




			
				Autumn said:
			
		

> My Bard will be Moderately Chaotic and Moderately Good. She'll be happy to work with any alignments except Very Good (because she's not stupid). Very Evil is fine; she's used to it. She won't be about to confide in them or make them her special allies, but she won't shun them either. She's used to working (and... other things...) with demons and their various minions, so working alongside nasty people is no problem.
> 
> For the record, anybody involved in any kind of resistance movement isn't likely to find an ally in her. They would have to do a LOT of convincing her that it was feasible and stood a real chance of success before she'd be willing to put herself on the line like that. If this is going to be a 'join the resistance and slay the evil' game then I'll shelve her... and actually I'll probably bow out of the game too in that case. I'm sure it'd still be fun and all, but it wouldn't capture my imagination in the same way.
> 
> A quick question, Nephtys; how long ago did the demons seize power? Are we talking within our characters' memories? A couple of generations back? Or a century or more?




Slaying all the evil looks like a very long way off. There are many (mostly small and personal) ways to resist the current order, but no organised resistance as such. Anything like that outside of the Enclaves have been repeatedly wiped out and if some scattered cells of fanatics remain they can accomplish little and are probably themselves unknowingly used as tools by the Lords in their schemes against each others.
Still, there are ways you can make things better if that is the direction the group takes. Just proving to the Lords that they still have use of mortals may be the greatest favour you can make mortalkind. If they decide they're better off with everyone converted into some new Towers of Life that's pretty much the end of everything.



			
				Bloosquig said:
			
		

> Crud lose my computer for 2 hours and now recruitments closed.  Ah well I'll keep an eye on it in case anything happens to open a spot later.  Good luck folks!




Sorry about that.
You're still welcome to make an alternate if you want. 




			
				WarlockLord said:
			
		

> Alright, I apologize for my earlier foolishness.  I'll come back in.  Please forgive my idiocy.
> 
> The Alienist requires Augment Summoning, the ability to cast 3rd level summonings, & 8 ranks in planar knowledge.  At level 1, it grants the ability to summons pseudonatural creatures instead of fiendish/celestial critters,  but you can no longer summon non fiendish/celestial creatures.  This only applies to summon monster.  Good fort, poor ref and will, bad BAB.  Full casting.
> 
> ...




It's water under the bridge. Sorry if I was unclear and caused you to misunderstand me. 

Looks good.




			
				Gli'jar said:
			
		

> I am leaning towards a Conjurer Variant (SRD) 5/alienist 8. The alienist abilities are as follows, beginning from level 2 since WarlockLord covered level 1. Alien Blessing at level 2  +1 insight bonus to saves but permanent loses 2 wis. At 3rd and at 7th, Metamagic secret, choose any metamagic feat as a bonus feat. At 4th, Mad Certainty gain 3hp but gain -4 to diplomacy, bluff and handle animals to influence nonpseudonatural creatures. At 5th Pseudonatural Familar, familar takes pseudonatural template.  Extra Summoning at 6th grants an extra slot for summon spells at the highest level slot. At 8 Insane Certainty,  gain 3 hp but gain -10 to diplomacy, bluff and handle animals to influence nonpseudonatural creatures (Mad certainty turns into a truly chilling mania. 9th is Timeless Body where I can no longer be aged and Alien Transcendence where one become an outsider, gains dr10/,agic, resis acid and elec 10. Further I grow a minor physical change like growing a tentacle, extra eye, appendage, etc.
> 
> I can work for some insane lord or for an outside being who lurks beyond reality whichever works for your world. I was planning to take the Omniscient Whispers spelltouched feat (Variant rules SRD) as it adds to the flavor rather nicely. Either way, I think he will work well with other characters so long as he is able to further his goals of either opening a portal beyond reality or getting rid of other conspiring lords to further his insane master's agenda. Neutral evil potentially as opposed to the crazed CN.
> 
> Are flaws and traits permissible?




Looks like something I would enjoy playing 

Flaws and traits are ok.




			
				Fenris2 said:
			
		

> Hmm, i think the interweb ate a post.
> 
> I will go with the fighter/rougish sort/dervish probably.  Likely N or LN.  undead.
> 
> ...




Looks good, I hope you have time to submit a character. I'll have to see the Dervish to approve it.




			
				Neurotic said:
			
		

> Ebon would be quite lawful in that he is loyal to his enclave and Crystalle, would be loyal to his emplyer who ever that was and on good/evil would be neutral essestialy doing what is ordered with more or less regret but not really losing any sleep over it. Without orders he tends towards good as most dwarves do.
> 
> Could you post players who would likely be in the game in one post?




It's too early to say, I haven't really seen enough of a concept from anyone yet. I'll give you all until this saturday before I'll give you my descision.




			
				Wrahn said:
			
		

> I would like to put my name in the hat of alternates, if a spot does open up.




Welcome Wrahn, the name is in the hat.


----------



## Trollbabe (Aug 15, 2007)

*Aeryk Voss Updated*



			
				Nephtys said:
			
		

> Concepts are enough, but I need a bit more depth that I've got from anyone so far. Some background, a little personality, perhaps some plot hooks, and a mention of which role your character would play in combat. 15-20 lines of text would be good.
> 
> Poisons are common in most of the world and sold for 1/4 of their normal price.



Sweet I have been looking over some of the poisons and noticed they are pricey this will help in that regard. I have added some more info on Aeryk below please let me know if more is required.

--

*Character: Aeryk Voss*
Class: Ranger 5 / Assassin 8
Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral Evil

*Appearance*: The majority of Aeryk's body is scarred from his torture at the hands of the Demonlord's bruisers. Fire was one of their many tools and it has left him with no hair on his face or head, except for a few oddly palced tuffs between the scars. The burns and scars have left him looking more monster then man. His eyes though remain the window to his former self. They are a faded yellow, but they are keen and would seem to belong to a predator.

*Personality*: Aeryk is only concerned with his own survival and well being. It was not always this way but this is how he has adapted to the harsh conditions of his world. He is cold and uncompassionate to others, their tribulations are of little concern to him. However, he has a hunger for revenge against those who tortured him and left him as a monstrosity. To survive and exist is the highest priority... He refuses to have his soul used as a chew toy!

*Background*: I am Aeryk Voss... I was a Black Cowl… an assassin in the employment of the Demonlords. For killing who they tell me to kill I myself see another day. The trick is to not draw too much attention, remain faceless and nameless. The Black Cowl’s are traitors in the eyes of many, we turned our back on our mortal brethren and joined the “dark side”. I don’t buy that sorta talk though... when a Demonlord comes calling, you answer. If I had not agreed to join the Black Cowls my soul would’a been tossed to the dretch to squabble over as a play thing.

The demons have no care for us though… they just use us as pawns. Members rarely work together so we operate as individuals, that suits me fine. Our leader is an unnamed Shadow of a creature maybe a man more then likely a demon. So Shadow contacts me with a target… a vrock captain that is to be eliminated.

I do it quick, I don’t even think the vulture knew he had it coming. But the tricks on me cause his allies were aware… they probably were the ones that ordered it in the first place. They drag me kicking and screaming to a torture chamber and I am cut, bruised and violated. I keep wondering why they don’t kill me and get it over with. That’s when the Shadow comes in and asks me if I am enjoying my stay. I’ve been framed! Some sort of scape goat... at some point I musta become expendable.

When they left me alone I manage to slip my bonds and with a lot of luck I escape the place their holding me. So everyman for himself… If the demons don’t get ya something else will. My wounds have healed, but the scars are not going anywhere. Maybe its best they don’t, fuel for my fire I guess. One things for sure I am looking out for number one, but a little revenge would suit me fine.

*Hooks*:
1) Shadow and the Black Cowls could find Aeryk and offer a new bounty... or maybe he is now the target for them to do away with.
2) The Vrock captain didn't die and now seeks out Aeryk with a propostion of his own.
3) Someone or something wants to see the Black Cowls fall and approaches Aeryk with new information and a plan.
4) While working for the Demonlords Aeryk was privey to some information that can now be used to benefit other organizations. They come with an offer.


----------



## Autumn (Aug 15, 2007)

Okay, let's see. I was going to start writing a fairly lengthy piece of background, but it's seeming like I won't have the time today or tomorrow so for now I'll shelve that and submit a concept of the type you suggested. 


*Ysande Zalarrhim*
 Human Female Bard 13
 Chaotic Good

*Background:* Ysande was born to a courtesan in the court of  a minor demon lord, the result of her dalliance with one of the many Tieflings - most of them distant descendants of the lord himself - who were part of his retinue. As a result, she's always been used to surviving and even thriving amongst the subtle webs of abyssal politics. With natural intelligence, a great musical talent, and extraordinary good looks - the taint of demon blood providing a frisson of the exotic - she was a natural at these games. As she grew up she became a great favorite in court and proved well able to spin some webs of her own.

 She has moved from court to court since she came of age, always in demand as word of her voice and her beauty spread. Demons like to play with mortal toys, and she knew the right games. She also had a natural instinct for the delicate business of judging that moment where the game becomes wearisome and the toy is smashed in a fit of pique. She's no stranger to close shaves, but so far she's always managed to walk the line. In her progress up the precarious and ever-shifting ladder of influence and position in the demonic courts she has certainly made her fair share of enemies, but she's also been adept at making the right allies at the right time. So far she remains one step ahead of anybody who would see her fall.

*Personality:* Ysande is something of an enigma. A life spent in intrigue and deception has taught her to keep her cards close to her chest, and that's precisely what she does. The face she presents to the world is elegant, refined and alluring, self-controlled and self-willed, with no hint of weakness. She is always composed, and always courteous. When she speaks, everybody in the room is sure she is speaking particularly to them, and when she breaks into one of her radiant smiles it is a private and confidential smile meant just for them. 

 She seems, in short, like a ray of sunshine in a world of horror and evil. She wades as deeply through the mire as anybody, but the dirt never seems to stick to her.

 This is, as far as she's concerned, the great purpose of her existence - to be a light in the darkness, to bring a flash of inspiration and beauty into lives that might otherwise be quite devoid of hope. 

*Combat:* As a pure bard, Ysande will be a buffer, healer, and all round support. She can help everybody do their job better while also disrupting the enemy and... generally being a helper. 

 She'll also be a great face for the party in noncombat situations. Perhaps even good enough to turn some combat situations into noncombat situations. 

*Hooks:* Ysande should be easy to involve in any plot line, since she is working for at least one patron at any given time as some combination of entertainer, diplomat, concubine, spy or advisor. Her allegiances are flexible, malleable, diverse and often contradictory. 

 As for more specific hooks in her own background, she's left a trail of enemies behind her. Allies she's slighted, lovers she's betrayed, or in many cases both. Feel free to treat them as an infinite resource of nefarious schemes and plots.


----------



## Bloosquig (Aug 15, 2007)

My idea is a psychic warrior half-giant.  Ex-gladiator / slave type who escaped and does random jobs for people but is looking for something greater in life now.  Better story below if you care to read.      Might be a bit much for an alternate character but my wife and baby are sleeping so I have time to waste.    

*Big Ironmaul*
Half-Giant Psychic Warrior 12

Sitting on a rotting stump of wood the barkeep was using as a stool Big Ironmaul thought back to the day he had died... 

It had been hot that day in the slave pens outside the gladiator ring and he had been glad to get his hammer and get into the arena.  Standing on the baking sand hadn't been much of an improvement but it was more or less clean and open compared to inside the pens.  As he heard the crowd begin to howl for the fight to start he mentally began to prepare.  He took control of his metabolism to slow blood loss from wounds, the air around him warped to protect him from blows and his mouth stretched out for it's new razor sharp fangs.  The door dropped open and he strode into the ring.

He had known he was a dead man as soon as he entered the arena and saw the dozen men inside.  Had known it ever since he had won a wrestling match his master had wanted him to throw and cost his patron a great deal of money.  As a slave he had had nothing but his record of perfect fights and not even the threat of death would take that from him.

Mama Grater, the succubus in charge of the slaves, had always been fond of Big.  Had in fact given him his name when he had first gotten to the slave pens and impressed her with his size.  After the thrown fight she was the one who had whispered to him, "Trust the tiger's bite." 

Then he had entered the arena and seen the men inside waiting for him.  One of the men he noticed was wearing a tiger mask.  During that long painful fight as Big crushed and ripped his foes he kept one eye on that man.  He never really participated in the fight and the few blows he did make were all easily blocked and soon he was the last one standing.  Badly wounded Big had staggered over to the man in the tiger's mask and tackled him to the ground.  While they were wrestling he had felt a slash under his ribs and a soothing blackness had fallen over everything.  

He had awoken several hours later half buried in rotten corpses in the Meat Pit, where the bodies of the dead are left till they can be re-animated for labor or to give the ghouls and cannibal human tribes something to eat so they don't venture into the slums.  Thus started Big's life of freedom.

Big had left town after that and moved far from his roots to avoid bumping into any unfriendly familiar faces.  He'd taken several jobs as guard, assassin, bodyguard anything really but had finally ended up in this dump tavern looking for something new.  And this pathetic brew certainly wasn't it he mused with a frown at his beer.  Slowly standing to his full height of nearly eight feet he grabbed his gear and turned to go.  A bleary eyed drunk on a nearby stool stared up at him and whistled, "Damn you sure are BIG ain't ya boy?"

As Big left the tavern he paused at the door to say over one shoulder, "That's what Mama used to say."

---

Here are stats/treasure/skills all that jazz.    

[sblock]
Big Ironmaul
Half Giant Psychic Warrior 12
Alignment:  Neutral

Str:  24  (+7)  
Dex:  16  (+3) 
Con:  16  (+3) 
Int:  10  (+/-0)
Wis:  16  (+3) 
Cha:  8  (-1)

HP:  68 rolls + 36 (con) = *104 / 104*
AC:  *22* = 10 + 9 (armor) + 3 (dex) 
Touch:  *13*
Flatfooted:  *19* 
Init:  +7

Fort: *16 (18 w/fire)*  = 8 + 5 + 3   Reflex: *12 (14 w/fire)* = 4 + 5 + 3   Will:  *12 (14 w/fire)* = 4 + 5 + 3

Base Atk:  +9 / +4

Grapple: *+24* = 9 + 7 (str) + 4 (size) + 4 (imp. grapple)
G. Axe Atk: *16* = 9 + 7   G. Axe Dam: 3d6 + 10 (str) + 5 (concussion) (19-20 x3)
Bite Atk: *11* = 9 + 7 (str) - 5 (sec. atk)   Bite Dam: 2d6 + 2d8 + 3 (20 x2)
Bow Atk: *13* = 9 + 3 (dex) + 1 (m. work)   Bow Dam:  2d6 + 7 (20 x3)
Unarmed strike: *16*  = 9 + 7 (str)  U. Strike Dam:  d6 + 3 (20 +x2)
*Skills and Languages*

Languages: Common, Giant

Autohypnosis:  5 (ranks) + 3 (wis) + 2 (synergy) = _10_ 
Climb: 5 (ranks) + 7 (str) - 6 (armor) = _6_ 
Concentration:  10 (ranks) + 3 (stat) = _13_ 
Knowledge (psionics):  5 (ranks) + 2 (synergy) = _7_ _(9 if involves Psy. Warrior abilities)_ 
Search: _0_ 
Spot:  3 (wis) = _3_ 
Sense Motive:  3 (wis) = _3_ 
Swim: 4 (ranks) + 5 (str) - 3 (armor) = _6_ 
Hide: 0 (ranks + 3 (dex) - 3 (armor) = _0_ 

*Feats* 

Power Attack
Cleave
Imp. Unarmed Strike
Imp. Grapple
Imp. Initiative
Deep Impact (p)
Speed of Thought (p)
Psionic Weapon (p)
Greater Psi. Weapon (p)

*Psionic Powers* 
_63 / 63 Power Points_ 
1st Level Powers  Save DC: 14
Grip of Iron
Bite of the Wolf
Expansion
Force Screen
Chameleon
Stomp (racial)

2nd  Level Powers Save DC: 15
Body Adjustment
Psionic Lion's Charge

3rd Level Powers Save DC: 16
Empathic Transfer (Hostile)
Vampiric Blade
Dimension Slide

4th Level Powers  Save DC:  17
Energy Adaptation
Inertial Barrier

*Gear* 
Mithril Full Plate of Speed +1 w/ armor spikes (+8 armor +1 enchancement bonus; -3 armor penalty; counts as medium armor; 10 rounds of _haste_ a day (not always consecutively)  (26550)
Cloak of Resistance +5          (25000)
Gloves of Dexterity +4           (16000)
Belt of Giant Strength +4        (16000)
Keen Great Axe of Collision (large)  (18000)
Bag of Holding (type 2)          (5000)
M. work Composite Bow w/ +7 str pull(large)           (1200)   
Quarrel w/ 20 arrows             
Adventuring Kit (stored in Bag of Holding)(bedroll, 2 months hard rations, several full waterskins, tent, everburning torch, 2 bottles fine brandy, 5 flasks acid, 5 flasks alch. fire, 100 feet silk rope, climbing pitons, hammer, and grappling hook, ink and pen and paper, 200 spare arrows)                       (360)

Gold:  1865

Other things of note:
Giant (not affected by charm person etc.)
[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 15, 2007)

Hmm!

Any way we could get a quick summary of the concepts submitted so far?


----------



## Fenris2 (Aug 15, 2007)

Here is mine...

The story of Catzan and Mouse

Catzan Emberwile and Emily “Mouse” Festron were both humans, originally from a small village right on the edge of the XXX desert in Cormand's domain.  They grew up neighbors, and both families relied upon each other during tough times.  So it was no surprise they became friends, lovers and eventually husband and wife.  What is unusual is the line of work they gravitated to in order to support themselves - bounty hunting, body guarding, infiltration and some say assassination.

At first it started with small jobs here or there like caravan guards or retrievers of 'lost' goods. But, over the years, their successes as a team grew.  Catzan provided the muscle, Mouse provided the magic, and both were sneaky enough for any 10 beings.  It was not long before they were taking on ever more dangerous and lucrative jobs for important people, and fiends for that matter.  Pretty soon their team handle of CatzanMouse, or just Cat and Mouse in the bar room rumors of the unwashed masses, was fairly well known in all the wrong circles.

So long as they were useful to the right people things went well.  But that is sadly not how it went down in the end.  Mouse knew that the only escape for their souls was undeath, and she had access to a wide range of spells that could help with that.  Catzan agreed, and so both took the journey to undeath to prevent their eventual demise and the torment their souls souls would surely suffer.  Such was not that unsual.

What was unusual was that both Catzan and Mouse wanted more.  Secretly their funds had been invested into undead research and they were working toward creating smarter forms of basic undead (awaken undead - Spell Compendium).   Forms that could be used for smithy, guarding or anything else that normally stupid undead could not do for that matter.  Someone?'s agents began sniffing around, and when Catzan and Mouse were non-commital about it, the agents left.  The duo immediately began packing up their things to move, but a lab does not move in a day.  

They were not quick enough, for a raid of demons appeared that very night...

***

Catzan got back to his feet standing over the corpse of the bloated demon that dripped ichor unto his bedroom floor...  Only to see the dazed form of Mouse held by two other clawed demons.  One laughed and licked his lips and said, “Her soul will be ours...  And yours is next human!”

“No!” he yelled as both blades rose to defend his wife, but it was two late.  The other demon shoved a clawed hand though his wife's back and out her belly, as some blood welled from her mouth.  He knew she was done for unless he could save her quickly.  Then a sound from the next room as the door burst inward and other demons began filing in, many other demons.  “There were still others?!”, he thought, “and they were summoning more..  It was hopeless. A total defeat.  All those years of work... Or, was it?”

A smile crossed his face as he shouted, 'Maybe not fiends!”, and then more quietly, “I am sorry my love.” he  dropped a scimitar and drew his dagger, a thanium (Comp warrior p137) dagger...  And then tumbled into the demons midst,  taking a claw for his efforts.  But the import part was that he had stabbed his wife, and finished her himself.  For the dagger now held her soul embedded in it.  Her essence was safe from the demons, even if her flesh was not.

With a snarl just appearing on the demons lips, he gripped the dagger tightly and flitted ethereal (ring of blinking) through the house walls.  Defeated, but not entirely so...  no, not entirely he thought.   He ran off leaving what sounded like dozens of ragging demons behind him.  He focused his thoughts on the fact he had Mouse's soul in his blade, and tried not to think on what was surely happening back in their house...

***

Goals: So, that leaves Catzan having Mouse's Soul in his dagger, which he wears around his neck on a chain.  Looking for a way to restore her (true res needed), as well as to build up enough power to be safe...  As if that was ever truly possible in this world...   Future goal would be to re-establish what they were doing.  For example,  cash in on what a horde of skeletal weapons smiths and armorers could do to their cash flow.  Or start an undead nation..  Or, well...  Whatever.

Plot hooks:  Who sent the demon squad?  Will they be back?  What does Catzan need to do to get his fair Mouse back?  

Concept: Catzan is LN/N mobility fighter/rogue.  I.e. taking the scout/thief roll.   Mouse is a rogue/priest cohort (not that that matters for now.  It can be dealt with when/if it comes up..) who specialized in necromancy.  Good or evil are pretty abstract for them and he/they can likely work with anyone.

I will email prc details for dervish prc now, not sure of copyright stuff so better safe than sorry... lmk if you get it.


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## Shayuri (Aug 15, 2007)

Currently looking at a monk or ninja/multiclass from an enclave that was destroyed, who seeks vengeance...but is pragmatic enough to think long-term. More details to follow.


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## WarlockLord (Aug 15, 2007)

The Mystic
Human Archivist 11/Alienist 1/Contemplative 1
AL True Neutral

Background: The Mystic, or the Nameless One as he is sometimes called, is a disiciple of the balance.  It all began when he read a book about the gods at the age of 8.
"Why have the gods gone, Mommy?"
"The demons took over."

As he witnessed the corruption and predation of the demons, he realized that something had to be done.  But as he studied more, he realized that evil is necessary to balance the good, and that without one, the other cannot survive. 

The balance had been disrupted, however, and our hero set off to restore it.  Abandoning his previous name as part of his old life, and fearful of demonic retaliation against those he knew, he became the Mystic.

Appearance: The Mystic wears a chain shirt, a black cape, and a top hat.  He carries a short metal walking stick (a heavy mace) which is powerfully enchanted, and a crossbow at his belt.  Around his neck hangs an amulet of the Balance: a wooden scale, perfectly balanced.  He is a young man of 21, with straight black hair cut short and a goatee. 

Personality: Driven, focused, and dedicated, but has a great sense of humor and a scathing wit.

Dogma: Reality is an illusion, maintained by the four Great powers: Good, Law, Chaos, and Evil.  These powers consistently struggle to reform the world in it's own image, and all of these would be bad.  In a perfect good world, nothing could be achieved, and self-sacrifice would rule.  A lawful world is a great gray space, a chaotic world eternally changing and random. and an evil world- where we are now. 

As a side note, pseudonatural creatures are outside of this struggle and are good summons for neutral divine casters 

Hooks: Will his traffic with alien creatures drive him insane? Will his identity be discovered?

Short of time, more to follow. Am I an alternate, or actually in the party?

As for the mechanics, I'm going to not take the balance domain (the domain power is for clerics only, and I can get the domain spells via the normal way of an archivist) and instead take the Illusion Domain, which is summarized below.
 Granted power: You cast illusion spells at +1 caster level
1: silent image
2: mirror image
3: displacement
4: phantasmal killer
5: persistent image
6: mislead
7: project image
8: screen
9: weird

Some spells from SC/other, non-core sources or from domains from SC/other non-core sources I'm thinking about grabbing (standard action casting time unless specified otherwise, SR applies unless specified):
Snake's Swiftness (Druid 1): close range, give ally extra attack
Charm Person (Lust 1)
Ghoul Gesture (Hunger 3): ray paralyzes subject unless they make fortitude save, medium range, fortitude negates, duration 1 round/level 
Enervation (Hunger 4)
Evard's Black Tentacles (Blackwater 3)
Vampiric Touch (Necromancy 3)
Shadow Evocation (Shadow 5)
Magic Jar (Spirit 6)
 Word of Balance (Balance 7)
(<Evoc[sonic], V, 1StdAct, SR applies>
– Any Lawful Good, Chaotic Good, Lawful
Evil, or Chaotic Evil creatures within a 30’
radius Spread who hears ‘word of balance’ &
that has no more HD than the caster suffer
from the following effects (no save):
up to Caster lvl: Nauseated for 1 round.
up to Caster lvl - 1: Weakened for 2d4 rnds
& above.
up to Caster lvl - 5: Paralyzed for 1d10 min
& above.
up to Caster lvl - 10: Dead / Destroyed.
In addition, if the caster is on his/her home
plane of existence, any LG, CG, LE, or CE
Extraplanar creature in the area of effect
(even if the ‘word of chaos’ cannot be heard)
that has no more HD than the caster is driven
back to its home plane for at least 1 day
(WillNeg at a –4 penalty).)
Suggestion (Charm 3)
Charm Monster (Charm 3)
Haste (Celerity 3)

I'd pay full price (scroll+page cost) for these spells, of course.

Many of these domains can be found on crystalkeep, but hunger and celerity have been upgraded in the SC.  

If anyone in the party thinks there are others we need badly, post them and I'll add them.  I'll probably have a list of cleric and druid spells from the SC later too.

I can post the pseudonatural creature template later.


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## ethandrew (Aug 15, 2007)

I think right now I am leaning toward the Wizard choice. So a brief background:


Galfridus the (Formerly) Great
Human Venerable Male Wizard
Transmuter 3 | Master Specialist 6 | Master of the Unseen Hand 4
True Neutral

In his prime, Galfridus was an amazing Wizard. He would travel the land looking for adventure and excitement, challenges and mysteries, other wizards to test his merit. Recklessly he would dual other wizards, besting them and relishing the joy of arcane combat. However, this is how is greatness waned.

During a particularly exhausting dual, Galfridus had challenged a wizard of some repute. Knowing his abilities to be slightly inferior to his opponent's, he hoped on chance a little too much. The dual was fast paced, one spell canceling another while even more reigned down upon the two combatants until finally one remained victorious.

There Galfridus stood motionless, save for his lips and their incessant babbling. Having been struck by Insanity, his loyal familiar Apep cared for him. Over time the insanity waned in its power, more time was spent in relative peace instead of the complete chaos that would sometimes consume their lives. It was in one of these times when a partially insane Galfridus and Apep managed to cast a limited wish. Tinged with an insane edge, the spell worked mostly. To this day, lingers of that life-altering dual spell still affect the (Formerly) Great Galfridus.

Many years had past since his days in adventuring the world. In those years it had changed for the worse. Holed up in their magical mansion, Galfridus and Apep rarely ventured out, lest they become to focus of unwanted ire, for Galfridus' confidence is not what it used to be. However, as the world becomes progressively more evil by the day, he knows that balance must be met. Such places were not meant to exist under such conditions, and should this limitless evil continue unchecked, it could spell the ruin of all.

A wizened, frail looking, white bearded man, Galfridus and his loyal Apep know what must be done.

_____________________

I just realized now, after wanting to run this PrC for a long time, that it doesn't have spell progression. My heart just sank. It looks like I will run the Druid Master of Many Forms.

As for the Exalted Feats, I'm not looking at anything that will get me killed immediately in this setting, and admittedly there are few that are really conducive to this build. There are a couple (Nymph's Kiss, Exalted Wild Shape, Exalted Companion) which would work without any issue, but that's about it. I'm perfectly okay with forgoing the rest of the feats. Or, if you'd like, we can swap them out for some ability score increases, like in Epic Levels. Yeah?   

Anyway, let me know what you think, if you'd allow me to have full spell progression for Master of the Unseen Hand, then my choice is clear. However, long shots not withstanding, don't worry about the Exalted Feats.


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## Wrahn (Aug 15, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> I just realized now, after wanting to run this PrC for a long time, that it doesn't have spell progression. My heart just sank. It looks like I will run the Druid Master of Many Forms.
> 
> As for the Exalted Feats, I'm not looking at anything that will get me killed immediately in this setting, and admittedly there are few that are really conducive to this build. There are a couple (Nymph's Kiss, Exalted Wild Shape, Exalted Companion) which would work without any issue, but that's about it. I'm perfectly okay with forgoing the rest of the feats. Or, if you'd like, we can swap them out for some ability score increases, like in Epic Levels. Yeah?
> 
> Anyway, let me know what you think, if you'd allow me to have full spell progression for Master of the Unseen Hand, then my choice is clear. However, long shots not withstanding, don't worry about the Exalted Feats.




You realize that to take an exalted feat you have to be good, and not namby pamby fence riding good, but the full fledge stand against the coming horde because it is the right thing to do go, no compromise, damn the consquences good.  The Book of Exalted Deed describes the prerequisite of taking exalted feats as "A character of the highest moral caliber" and anyone who takes an exalted feat radiates and aura of good, the exalted feats being gifts from the powers of good.

Exalted characters present the same problem as a paladin and as such, unless Nephtys is willing to relax the requirements, I am not sure Vow of Poverty is an appropriate feat.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

Whran - Neph was saying that he'd allow EVIL characters to take Vow of Poverty, so i don't think that's gonna be a problem.

WarlockLord - I'm assuming you're refering to the Psuedonatural from Complete Arcane, and not the Epic Level version? (Just making sure. *L*)

As for my character, heeeeere's Johny: 
[sblock=Background]
He was born William of Kalesh, Only son of Cormand, a minor lord of the deserts of Kalesh.  His mother was killed when he was young, caught trying to smuggle him away from his father, though some say she is still alive in the dungeons, being tortured endlessly for daring to go against a Lord.

[sblock=Cormand info]
Cormand, fiendish a human from the abyss, and one of the consorts of the Succubus Lady Love seems to be deep under her sway, but perceptions can be deceptive. His domain, an area of deserts the size and shape of the Sahara is poor in souls but rich in ores, even of the rarest kind. Still, Kalesh is considered the weakest of the ordered domains and Cormand, lacking a reserve of soul-components to fuel his epic spells that comes close to most others of the spellcasting Lords is wise to ally himself closely to those who are stronger than himself. Because of his apparent poverty in Souls few demons follow him, but he holds great powers over the undead.
Of his two epic apprentices only Ilva remains, but her wereabouts are unknown.
[/sblock]

William's early life was spent being trained in the arts of warfare, so that he could take his fathers place one day.  Though he showed minor skills in magic (A side=effect of his fathers fiendish heritage, and perhaps a proving of the rumours that his mother was a descendant of ancient dragons), his father disdained having a mage for his only son, wanting to raise a Warlord.  And so he did, training William in the ways of the Black-Guard.
But William was NOT his fathers son, and kept feeling that something was wrong.  Still, this was the only life he had ever known, and as such, could not conceive of anything better.  Until he met HER.  

She was everything he could ever want... Beautiful, smart, passionate.. and above all, kind (Not something one comes across often in this world).  She was too good to be true, but she WAS true.  And she was his, as much as he was hers.  The two of them shared two years together and then she became pregnant.  This was when Lord Cormand decided it had gone to far.  He would not have his son taken by some common girl.  Cormand stole their baby and had her drawn and quartered in front of William.  Thinking that both his love and his child were lost to him, William became withdrawn and cruel - Exactly what his father had hoped for.  But when he found out that the child was still alive, a new hope sprang into his heart, and - renouncing his father and his evil ways - he stole the child back and fled his fathers land, taking shelther in one of the many monasteries that dotted the lands.  He stay there for a year, recovering and taking care of his child, learning to control his rage and his anger from the monks. 

That is also where he was found by the Knights of Shadow, and approached by an old monk who told him that he could teach him how to get back at his father, and to help others like himself.. his mother.. his wife.. and to, maybe, one day, make the world a better place for his child.  Agreeing, William took a new name.. Windwalker, and reluctantly left his child to be raised by the monks, while he set out with the old man to train, and.. a year later.. He was given the rank and title of a Knight of Shadow, and released into the world, to help spread good however he could (without being captured or killed, preferably).

[sblock=Knights of Shadow]
The Knights of Shadow are an order of holy men who dedicate their lives to keeping Good people as seperated from the true darkness from the world as possible. They do this by placing their own souls and bodies between the innocents and the evil. As the Shadow stands between light and darkness, so do the Knights of Shadow.
They are a secretive organization - Akin to a cult in more 'normal' worlds, that hide their members across the lands, to avoid discovery and eradication.  They are one of the few (If not perhaps the last) organizations of Good left in the lands.
[/sblock]
[/sblock]

[sblock=Personality]
Sir Windwalker (William to his peers) is steadfastly dedicated to Good, whether it be through Acts of kindness, Eradication of Evil, or whatever. He is a firm believer in 'doing the right thing', even when it's not always the smart thing. (Though that does not, as some have wrongly guessed, stem from a lack of intelligence, merely a belief that if it's the right thing to do, it's probably worth it).

William is not your standard 'stick up the rear' Holy Warrior, and is dedicated to the Spirit of law and Goodness rather than the specific innuendo's of it. As a Shadow Knight, he believes in the greater good, though not to the point of overwriting individual freedoms. There is a very fine line that must be walked between doing what you think is right for everyone, and taking away their freedom to decide that themselves.

The Knights of Shadow believe that by placing themselves closer to the darkness, they keep everyone else safer, and they do the things that the really good people shouldn't have to. Sometimes, if the knight is not pure enough, this can lead to a degradation of character, and some knights have been known to cross too far into the shadows, loosing themselves. It's tough to maintain your righteousness when you're constantly in contact with such 
vileness, but William has managed to do so... Thus far. [/sblock]


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## WarlockLord (Aug 16, 2007)

Yes, the complete arcane version of pseudonatural.

Pseudonatural Creature Abilities:
True Strike (Su): Once per day, a pseudonatural creature can gain a +20 insight bonus on a single attack roll. In addition, the creature suffers no miss chance against a target that has concealment or total concealment when making this attack.

SR equal to 10+HD

HD
1-3: Acid/electricity resistance 5 
4-7: Acid/electricity resistance 5, DR 5/magic
8-11: Acid/electricity resistance 10, DR 5/magic
12+ :Acid/electricity resistance 10, DR 10/magic

Alternate Form (Su): As a standard action, a Pseudonatural creature can turn into a bizarre tentacled mass.  This gives all enemies a -1 morale penalty on attacks (no save)


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## Gli'jar (Aug 16, 2007)

Thanks for giving us till Saturday to get our chars. posted. My exam is Thursday afternoon so that is my focus till then.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

So I've discovered a major problem upon looking over the Grayguard.

As previously noted, it has the same basic code of conduct as a paladin, but relaxed.
The problem is, until 10th level, they STILL loose their paladin & Grayguard abilities (Smite, Divine Grace, Lay-on-hands) when they break their code...  It's just that when they atone, it's automatic and doesn't require XP (Normally it's assumed that the Paladin must prove they're sorry, but with grayguards the Priest goes "OK, so you did this for the order, here's your atonement spell).  At 10th level, they have to do something DELIBERATELY bad to break their code.
The problem this provides is twofold.. 
1) Until lvl 10, I'm just as vulnerable as a paladin, and
2) Priests willing to cast Atonement for a goodguy to regain his paladin powers are probably going to be hard to come across.

Neph?  help?


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## Gli'jar (Aug 16, 2007)

WarlockLord said:
			
		

> As for the mechanics, I'm going to not take the balance domain (the domain power is for clerics only, and I can get the domain spells via the normal way of an archivist) and instead take the Illusion Domain, which is summarized below.
> Granted power: You cast illusion spells at +1 caster level
> 1: silent image
> 2: mirror image
> ...




Warlocklord I noticed a problem with your classes. Archivists are an interesting way of filling the cleric slot without being a cleric. The spells the archivist draws from is the cleric spell list. Domains spells purposely exist outside this list, hence they are solely domain unless otherwise noted. Additionally, you cannot cast your domain spells from the bonus domain you gain from contemplative either. Since they are domain spells they must be cast from domain slot which the archivist does not possess.


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Ebon*

Couldn't help noticing we lack two things: heavy hitter (which would be my dwarf) and full fledged cleric (which I seriously consider since we are up to our necks in demons).

So: Fig2/Clr3/Deepwarden (if allowed)2/dwarven defender 5 or 6 depending on eCL)
OR Fig2/Clr3/Warpriest 8 (defenders of faith, I'm not sure if it's WoTC) - I'd stick with my first choice but can change if you decide we need more divine power.

Questions:
1. How does summoning, calling, banishment etc work with planar borders sealed?
2. How does commune and similar divination spells work?
3. What about plane shifting?
4. If demon is killed is he killed permanently? Or just banished back to abbys? Or his layer or whatever...

Yes, I thought conclaves would be VERY paranoid and would have means of ensuring those captured do not talk. Several ideas:
1. spells to forget the location and means of access (maybe with command word or trigger to remember) - non-critical knowledge intact
2. soul bound inside the conclave, PC can be killed at any time (with someone controlling his status every now and then)
3. soul destroyed/returned upon trying to reveal the location
Additionally, people leaving the enclave would be provided with personalized non-detection and maybe mind-blank shielding items or grafted runes that would work only with that person (to prevent the greedy to sell them of course  )

Little bit more of char history, motivations and hooks:
Ebon is fascinated with Order of things. Not rigid laws of men, but seeming chaos of Nature where things always change and yet stay the same. He is fascinated by all sorts of ordered patterns and structures, be it in magic, people or materials. Living secluded from dwarf and human society alike, he focused on materials and their inherent magic. He also likes his peace so he can do some research and do some smithwork. Protection of "his domain" comes naturally to him and passivity he sees as cowardice. While working on improving comrades weapons and armor is comendable it's still hiding behind safe walls while other die out there.

Although surrounded by magic all his life and not afraid of it, he is mistrustful of such fickle force and seeks inherent power in materials and patterns. 

Personality:
Ebon is active and inteligent, curious to the point of dangerousness. He is also overconfident in his abilities and will occasionaly bite off more then he can chew. Somewhat rigid in his behaviour he tends to treat people with distant courtesy and let someone close only rarely. Thus, he can be described as having a personality of crystal (transparent, rigid and with unfathomable depths hidden by transparency)

Motivations:
1. Keep the enclave safe, eradicating any and all knowledge about it
2. Return the dwarves to their former glory - sending all dwarves he meets to agreed upon spot for collecting by the enclave (maybe teleportation circle)
3. Return to his home plane (if he can then get back)
4. Remove the veil so other planes can send help
5. Revive the old Rotting One (having powerful god on your side can really be a boon ) - this one depends on Dumathoin's view of such a deed, this is just mortal thinking
6. Personal agendas: discover and use "land and material magic"

Hooks:
1. Powerful enemy, one of elemental slavemasters sends assasination squad when he finds out that Ebon is "outside" - i.e. not unreachable in conclave
2. Agents from outside contacting with their own agendas (Crystalle might see this as a chance to increase his own power, his mother might want to help disappearing dwarves of the world etc)
3. Any other mercenary work for this is how Ebon presents himself.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

Actually, Sir William will be both a Heavy-Hitter AND a healer.

Also, I think I've figured out how to reconcile the Paladins code thing.



> Code of Conduct
> A paladin must be of lawful good alignment and loses all class abilities if she ever willingly commits an evil act.
> 
> Additionally, a paladin’s code requires that she respect legitimate authority, act with honor (not lying, not cheating, not using poison, and so forth), help those in need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends), and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.



OK, now, 
at LVL 1, I have Sacrament of Trust' : I am considered 'slightly relaxed' on them, and can receive Atonement easier.  
At lvl 7, I gain Unbound Justice: Unrestriced by the code of honor, you can can employ unorthodox methods that are all the more effective.  Add half your gray-guard level(rounded down) as a competence bonus to bluff, disguise, and intimidage.
at LVL 10 you gain Sacrement of the True Faith (can act on behalf of your order as you deem necessary, never risk loosing your class abilities int he pursuit of a just cause and never need to atone for violating your code of conduct).  It has a few things about GROSS violations, or PURPOSEFUL ones (like killing people for fun, etc), but those don't matter yet.
Currently, I'm level 8.
That leaves me having to deal with the following for 2 levels: 
Respect Legitimate Authority:  Considering they're all evil & Demons, I don't think many paladins would consider their authority 'legitimate'. (Especially since we're opposing them).
Help Those in Need (provided they do not use the help for evil or chaotic ends) and punish those who harm or threaten innocents.

Which means that Sir Williams code is: "Protect the Innocent and help the weak/needy".  I don't think that'll be a problem most of the time, and if I DO have to ignore helping someone for the greater good, well we've got both an Archivist and a Druid capable of casting 5th lvl spells, I'm sure ONE of them could be 'persuaded' to Atone me considering it's no cost.


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## ethandrew (Aug 16, 2007)

Ditto that for my Master of Many Forms. Being able to take forms such as Storm Giants to Beholders and other various goodness, while having 5 levels of Divine spells, I think we've got those two spots covered. Maybe not as much for clerical, but enough.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

BTW, I was looking through the thread and couldn't find a stat generation method, so Until told otherwise, I'll use 32 point-buy (It's the standard from Neverwinter Nights, and as such my friends and I have taken to using it for most of our games)

Building the character Number-wise now that all the background info is done.  
(BTW, congrats.. THis is one of the few games where I did ALL of a characters non-stat info first.  Usually I create the character and then go "Now WHY does he have all these powers".


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

OK, Here's what I've got so far.  There's a couple feats from non-core sources that you may say no to(Please don't.), so I put where they're from and what they do for your approval. 
Also, I wanted to ask you if I could use Deflect arrows while wielding a quarterstaff.  It seems thematic for a monk-type, but technically you can't deflect while wielding a 2-handed weapon.

Character still under construction!
[sblock=Sir William Windwalker]
Sir William Windwalker
Human Male Monk1/Pal4/GrayGuard8
AL: LG  HT: 6' WT: 190 Hair: Silver  Eyes: Green  Age: 24

STR: 22 (+6) [10 points + 2 lvl + 4 enhancement]
DEX: 16 (+3) [6 points + 2 enhancement]
CON: 10 (+0) [2 points]
INT: 10 (+0) [2 points]
WIS: 20 (+5) [8 points + 1 lvl + 4 enhancement]
CHA: 12 (+1) [2 points+ 2 Enhancement]

HP: ? (1d8+12d10) 
AC: 27 (10 base + 3 dex + 5 Wis + 4 armour + 2 deflection + 2 Nat Armour)
(Touch: 20 Flat-footed: 23)
Movement: 40 (60 w/Divine Vigor)

Saves: 
FORT: + 20 (12 base +0 con +5 Grace +1 resist)
REF: + 16 (5 base +3 dex +5 Grace +1 resist)
WILL: + 21 (8 base +5 wis +5 Grace +1 resist)
Init: +3

Bab: 12  Melee: +18  Ranged: +15  Grapple: + 22 Trip: +6
Attacks: 
Unarmed : + 18/13/8, 1d6+6 damage.
Unarmed Flurry : +16/16/11/6, 1d6+6 damage
Staff : +19/14/9, 1d6+10 damage
Staff Flurry : 17/17/12/7, 1d6+7 damage
SMITE: +6 attack, +12 damage (Evil or Chaotic)
POWER ATTACK: -1 attack/+2 damage(staff)

Skills(Total/Ranks):[56 Points, max rank 16] 
Knowledge(Religion)(+8/8), Sense Motive(+21/16), Bluff(+21/16), Jump(+16/5), Tumble(+10/5), Speak Language(4cc, Fiendish/Abyssal), 2 more points.


Feats[6]: Serenity*, Divine Vigor*, Extra Smiting*, Weapon Focus(Quarterstaff), Power Attack, 1 more(Deflect?)

* = feats from other books 
Serenity = Dragon Compendium: Paladin uses WIs in place of Cha for Class abilities.
Divine Vigor = Complete Warrior: as a standard action, spend one turn undead attempt to increase base speed by 10 and 
gain +2 temporary hp/lvl.  Lasts 1 minute.
Extra Smiting = Complete Warrior: You gain 2 extra Smites/day.
Off-Hand Expert = Quintessential Fighter (Also Oriental Adventures under a different name): You add your full str bonus to 
damage with your off-hand, instead of half.

Class Features:
MONK: Improved Grapple, Unarmed Strike(1d6), Monk AC bonus, Flurry of Blows, 
PALADIN: Detect Evil, Divine Grace(+6), Lay on hands(72), Aura of Courage/good, Divine Health, Turn Undead(9/day), 
Spellcasting, Smite Evil (5/day, +6 atk, +12 damage)
GRAYGUARD: Sacrament of Trust, Unbound Justice, Justice Blade(Can smite Chaos OR), Improved Spellcasting (1/2 lvl)
Debilitating Touch(use 5 points of Lay On Hands to cause target to be sickened for 5 rounds. DC 24 fort save)
Devastating Touch(Deal damage with Lay on hands.. 1 for 1.  NON-Evil gets will save DC 24 to halve damage) 
*note: I have 2 grayguard abilities left.  LVL 9 is Justice Blade(ANY alignment), LVL 10 is Sacrament of True Faith.*

Spells (CL 4)
1st lvl(3/day): Cure Light WoundsX2, Lesser Restoration.
2nd lvl(2/day): Undetectable AlignmentX2(1 Cast every morning, 1 backup)

Languages: Common, Fiendish, Abyssal

Equipment: 110,000 GP
Belt of Strength +4 (35,500 GP)
Gloves of Dexterity + 2 (4,000)
Amulet of Wisdom + 4 (16,000)
Cloak of Cha+2/Resistance + 1 (5,500)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Ring of Deflection + 2 (8,000)
Vest of Natural Armour + 2 (8,000)
Bracers of Armour + 4 (16,000)
Boots of Striding & Springing (5,500)
+1 Quarterstaff (2,300)

left: 4,700 GP
[/sblock]

[sblock=Background]
He was born William of Kalesh, Only son of Cormand, a minor lord of the deserts of Kalesh. His mother was killed when he was young, caught trying to smuggle him away from his father, though some say she is still alive in the dungeons, being tortured endlessly for daring to go against a Lord.

[sblock=Cormand info]
Cormand, fiendish a human from the abyss, and one of the consorts of the Succubus Lady Love seems to be deep under her sway, but perceptions can be deceptive. His domain, an area of deserts the size and shape of the Sahara is poor in souls but rich in ores, even of the rarest kind. Still, Kalesh is considered the weakest of the ordered domains and Cormand, lacking a reserve of soul-components to fuel his epic spells that comes close to most others of the spellcasting Lords is wise to ally himself closely to those who are stronger than himself. Because of his apparent poverty in Souls few demons follow him, but he holds great powers over the undead.
Of his two epic apprentices only Ilva remains, but her wereabouts are unknown.
[/sblock]

William's early life was spent being trained in the arts of warfare, so that he could take his fathers place one day. Though he showed minor skills in magic (A side=effect of his fathers fiendish heritage, and perhaps a proving of the rumours that his mother was a descendant of ancient dragons), his father disdained having a magic-user for his only son, wanting to raise a Warlord. And so he did, training William in the ways of the Black-Guard.
But William was NOT his fathers son, and kept feeling that something was wrong. Still, this was the only life he had ever known, and as such, could not conceive of anything better. Until he met HER. 

She was everything he could ever want... Beautiful, smart, passionate.. and above all, kind (Not something one comes across often in this world). She was too good to be true, but she WAS true. And she was his, as much as he was hers. The two of them shared two years together and then she became pregnant. This was when Lord Cormand decided it had gone to far. He would not have his son taken by some common girl. Cormand stole their baby and had her drawn and quartered in front of William. 
Thinking that both his love and his child were lost to him, William became withdrawn and cruel - Exactly what his father had hoped for. But when he found out that the child was still alive, a new hope sprang into his heart, and - renouncing his father and his evil ways - he stole the child back and fled his fathers land, taking shelther in one of the many monasteries
that dotted the lands. He stay there for a year, recovering and taking care of his child, learning to control his rage and his anger from the monks. 

That is also where he was found by the Knights of Shadow, and approached by an old monk who told him that he could teach him how to get back at his father, and to help others like himself.. his mother.. his wife.. and to, maybe, one day, make the world a better place for his child. Agreeing, William took a new name.. Windwalker, and reluctantly left his child to be 
raised by the monks, while he set out with the old man to train, and.. a year later.. He was given the rank and title of a Knight of Shadow, and released into the world, to help spread good however he could (without being captured or killed, preferably).

[sblock=Knights of Shadow]
The Knights of Shadow are an order of holy men who dedicate their lives to keeping Good people as seperated from the true darkness from the world as possible. They do this by placing their own souls and bodies between the innocents and the evil.  As the Shadow stands between light and darkness, so do the Knights of Shadow. They are a secretive organization - Akin to a cult in more 'normal' worlds, that hide their members across the lands, to avoid discovery and eradication. They are one of the few (If not perhaps the last) organizations of Good left in the lands.  To help avoid detection, many Knights of Shadow have given up the paladins traditional weaponry and armour and follow the Monk's path.[/sblock]

[sblock=Personality]
Sir Windwalker (William to his peers) is steadfastly dedicated to Good, whether it be through Acts of kindness, Eradication of Evil, or whatever. He is a firm believer in 'doing the right thing', even when it's not always the smart thing. (Though that does not, as some have wrongly guessed, stem from a lack of intelligence, merely a belief that if it's the right thing 
to do, it's probably worth it).

William is not your standard 'stick up the rear' Holy Warrior, and is dedicated to the Spirit of law and Goodness rather than the specific innuendo's of it. As a Shadow Knight, he believes in the greater good, though not to the point of overwriting individual freedoms. There is a very fine line that must be walked between doing what you think is right for everyone, and taking away their freedom to decide that themselves.

The Knights of Shadow believe that by placing themselves closer to the darkness, they keep everyone else safer, and they do the things that the really good people shouldn't have to. Sometimes, if the knight is not pure enough, this can lead to a degradation of character, and some knights have been known to cross too far into the shadows, loosing themselves. It's tough to maintain your righteousness when you're constantly in contact with such 
vileness, but William has managed to do so... Thus far. 
[/sblock]
[/sblock]


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Heavy hitters*

It's all nice and beautiful. 
So, here is small poll   
Would you like dwarven defender or warpriest in a party? Priests can be heavy hitters justneed some time to prepare...

I'm not familiar with master of many forms but I take it's some polymorphing class (obviously).

I apologize Jemal, I missed that you found way to rework your paladin. I don't agree that paladins wouldn't recognize legitimate authority of such regime. They are LAWFUL and this regime IS legitimate, if evil. They would look to provide protection, pointing out extenuating circumstances etc. but would still report breaker of law to "the police". 

Deciding what regime you accept and what not is NOT lawful but chaotic, it's matter of personal preference (hence chaotic). Different would be stopping execution on the spot (unless law dictates otherwise), torture etc.


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## Autumn (Aug 16, 2007)

I can't agree with that Neurotic. What's 'legitimate' about an army of demons invading and imposing their vile whims arbitrarily on the hapless subjects of an entire plane?

 On the contrary, I'd say anybody with any kind of streak of lawfulness would refuse to recognize them as a legitimate authority. You'd have to be wildly chaotic to accept that as business as usual.

 Lawful people still have some choice in what they do. Lawfulness doesn't mean blind obedience to any and every self-proclaimed authority figure you cross paths with.


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## Wrahn (Aug 16, 2007)

Neurotic said:
			
		

> I apologize Jemal, I missed that you found way to rework your paladin. I don't agree that paladins wouldn't recognize legitimate authority of such regime. They are LAWFUL and this regime IS legitimate, if evil. They would look to provide protection, pointing out extenuating circumstances etc. but would still report breaker of law to "the police".
> 
> Deciding what regime you accept and what not is NOT lawful but chaotic, it's matter of personal preference (hence chaotic). Different would be stopping execution on the spot (unless law dictates otherwise), torture etc.




This is why there are so many "Is this what a paladin would do?" threads.

In my opinion Jemal is correct.  How can a champion of Truth, Justice and all that stuff be expected to stand on the sidelines when innocent people are being tortured and killed?  My litmus test for what a paladin would do is what would Superman do?  And if Superman was living in this world he would fight the establishment with every fiber of his being.  Being lawful does not mean blindly following authority, in fact I would think that a paladin would be even more angry with the demons because they are corrupting what a legitimate government is suppose to do.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

Just b/c someone takes over a country and proclaims themself the ruler, and then says "Raping and murdering people is Not only legal but encouraged" doesn't mean the paladin has to accept it.  Lawful GOOD, not lawful stupid.  
Legitimate authority is maintaining social order without resorting to undue violence according to most political scientists.
Democracy, Communism, and Monarchy are 3 examples of Legitimate Authority.  
Tyranny and Dictatorship are the two most-oft cited examples of ILLegitimate Authority.

It's up to the DM, in the end.  However, if any DM ever tells my paladin that a situation like this is "legitimate authority", I'll just walk away.


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Lawfulness*

He doesn't have to agree. there are human rulers who ruled before demons came and they survived. Would you deny them authority. What about LE rule of Banite tyrant. What about strict military state where military holds all places of power but keeps demons at bay. Would those people living in such state have a say in the matter. No. would they prefer demons? Again no. And so military rule stays. Demons may be chaotic, but as long as the laws exist (and laws are by definition not chaotic) and are more or less justly applied, paladin cannot oppose them. As I said, torture and execution without trial would be something he interferes with, but not legitimate trial. Regardless of laws.

What you describe is his Good side rebeling against his Lawful outlook. Laws themselves are neither good nor evil. Would law saying that all rapists should be raped as punishment be evil. Probably. But would it be unlawful? No. Legitimate goverment said: This is the law and so it is.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

The point I was making is that any government that would MAKE such a law Isn't LEGITIMATE, b/c it does not maintain social order without resorting to undue violence.  The military rule you described Would be toeing the line, depending on what they enforced.

The simple act of having power does not make you a legitimate authority, nor does length of time you've had said power.  It's how you use it.



> As I said, torture and execution without trial would be something he interferes with, but not legitimate trial. Regardless of laws.



And here you contradict yourself.. So if it was the LAW that anybody could be Tortured and Executed for any reason if the lord decided, what then?  Is that still LEGITIMATE?  Where do you draw the line?  

I ask b/c the code specificaly states LEGITIMATE authority, not just AUTHORITY.  Anybody who has power has AUTHORITY.  What makes it Legitimate?  Is it how much power you have? how many people you control?  or is it how you USE your power?
*Technically* an evil character with Leadership has AUTHORITY over a group of people.. and since they follow him willingly(more or less), that authority could even be considered Legitimate by some.
HELL itself is a Legitimate Authority according to you, b/c Devils are LAWFUL Evil.  Therefore Paladins are not allowed to interfere with the dealings of Hell.

Makes no sense to me.


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Lawful*

Just because race/plane is lawful evil doesn't make it legitimate. Take this for example: for thousand years one family ruled over small kingdom. Most of the rulers were banite priests and thus lawful evil. People in the kingdom lived for thousand years in such, they know about birocraucy, corruption etc and they use it. If you break The Law there is punishment. If you're poor, you're out of luck.

Now comes rebelion and throne is overthrown by Neutral Warrior. Several of former rulers kin still live. Are they or are they not LEGITIMATE HEIRS? 

I didn't say that paladin needs to agree with that. Also, Hell has nine rulers and any and all devils would say they are legitimate. As long as they can maintain their power that is. But they are legitimate.

Paladin would fight against such regime, not because it is illegitimate but because it's evil. That's all there is. But for breaking the law people should be punished according to the law and thus paladin should report the deed and make everything in his power to see that prisoner is treated fairly.

Take into account that we are not talking about today, with all the talk about human rights and such. While D&D is far more enlightened then our own Dark Ages it is still absolute monarchy and feudalism as most common rules and yes, sovereigns word IS the law.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

You still didn't answer the question - WHO decides something is legitimate, and HOW.  Your argument seems to be Lawful = Legitimate.


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Decisions, decisions*

What am I? A lawyer? 

Just kidding. People decide. Not by voting but by actions.

In the example above, if people continue with their life long practices and complain how soft is today goverment that killers walk again after only flogging or prison, if they help former rulers then yes, they are legitimate. 

If people support the rule passively i.e. by not doing anything even when given the chance (such as supporting and hiding the resistance movement) or protecting the prosecuted (such s were Jews under Nazis) then yes, they are supporting the goverment and it's legitimate.

It's upon your paladin to change that, but he could just as easily start slaying those supportive of evil goverment, as try to get it right from the inside following lawful methods. Point isn't who decides, but that YOU shouldn't. Who appointed YOU as legitimate authority do decide if another is legitimate.

It's fun being devil's lawyer 

For the record, I live in free country and enjoy it. But we have (stricter ? is that good word?) stronger laws then in the US where (in my oppinion) too much power is given to personal freedom laws. But that's what US citizens want, no?  :\ 

And no, I've never been in US but have friends who went for their PhDs there


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Ebon*


```
Name:       Ebon of Crystal Spire
Race:       Dwarf (sub-race still undecided)
Player:     PLAYER 
Classes:    Cleric3 Fighter6 Dwarven Defender4
Hit Points: 137Experience: 78000 / 91000
Alignment:  Lawful Neutral
Vision:     Darkvision (60')
Speed:      Walk 20 ft.
Languages:  Abyssal, Common, Dwarven, Terran
 
Stat    Score   Mod
STR      14      (+2)
DEX      13      (+1)
CON      20      (+5)
INT      14      (+2)
WIS      12      (+1)
CHA      8       (-1)
 
-------------------------- Skills --------------------------
Skill                   Total   Rnk     Stat    Msc
Balance                  1        0.0      1        0
Climb                    3        1.0      2        0
Concentration            7        2.5      5        0
Craft (Default)          2        0.0      2        0
Craft (Armorsmithing)    4        0.0      2        2
Craft (Blacksmithing)    16       12.0     2        2
Craft (Gemcutting)       6        4.0      2        0
Craft (Metalworking)     4        0.0      2        2
Craft (Stonemasonry)     4        0.0      2        2
Craft (Weaponsmithing)   4        0.0      2        2
Decipher Script          2        0.0      2        0
Diplomacy                1        0.0      -1       2
Disable Device           2        0.0      2        0
Escape Artist            1        0.0      1        0
Forgery                  2        0.0      2        0
Heal                     5        4.0      1        0
Hide                     1        0.0      1        0
Intimidate               2        3.0      -1       0
Jump                     -4       0.0      2        -6
Knowledge (Default)      2        0.0      2        0
Knowledge (Rituals)      8        6.5      2        0
Knowledge (Religion)     4        2.0      2        0
Knowledge (The Planes)   4        2.0      2        0
Listen                   5        4.0      1        0
Literacy                 0        0.0      0        0
Move Silently            1        0.0      1        0
Open Lock                1        0.0      1        0
Ride                     6        5.0      1        0
Search                   2        0.0      2        0
Sense Motive             10       9.0      1        0
Speak Language           0        0.0      0        0
Spellcraft               2        0.0      2        0
Spot                     5        4.0      1        0
Survival (The Planes)    1        0.0      1        0
Survival (Default) 	 1        0.0      1        0
Swim                     2        0.0      2        0
                                                   
 
-------------------------- Feats ---------------------------
Blind-Fight
  In melee, every time you miss because of concealment, you can reroll your miss chance percentile roll one time to see if you actually hit.
  
Armor Proficiency (All)
  When you wear a type of armor with which you are proficient, the armor check penalty for that armor applies only 

to Balance, Climb, Escape Artist, Hide, Jump, Move Silently, Pick Pocket, and Tumble checks.

Weapon Focus (Warhammer) +1 to hit
Weapon Spec (Warhammer) +2 damage
Dodge +1 AC vs. one opponent
Endurance
Toughness +3 hp
Weapon Expertise +x to AC for -x to hit
Power attack +x to damage for -x to hit
Combat casting +4 concentration check in close combat
  
 
-------------------- Special Abilities ---------------------
+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids
+2 racial bonus on Appraise and Craft checks that are related to stone or metal.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against poison.
+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects.
+4 Dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type.
Defensive Stance 3/day
Spontaneous casting
Stability
Stonecunning
Trap Sense (Ex) +1
Turn Undead (Su) 2/day (turn level 3) (turn damage 2d6+2)
Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC)

 
-------------------------- Combat --------------------------
 
    Total / Touch / Flat Footed
AC: 16    / 16    / 16
 
Initiative:   +1
BAB:          +12/+7/+2
Melee to hit:  +14/+9/+4 
Damage: 1d8 +2(STR) +2 (spec) +enchantment as of yet undecided
Critical 20/x3
Ranged tohit: +13/+8/+3
 
Fortitude:    +16
Reflex:       +4
Will:         +9
 
Unarmed attack:
to hit:       +14/+9/+4
damage:       1d3+2
critical:     20/x2
 
--------------------- Special Abilities --------------------
 
Ebon of Crystal Spire can Turn/Rebuke undead 2 times per day.
Turning check:  1d20-1
Turning damage: 2d6 +2 

                     
SPELLS: 
Level 0 (4)
Decode (Divination)
Detect Magic (Divination)
Purify Food and Drink (Transmutation)
Resistance (Abjuration)
 
 
Level 1 (3 +1)
*Detect Secret Doors (Divination)
Divine Favor (Evocation)
Endure Elements (Abjuration)
Protection from Evil (Abjuration)
 
 
Level 2 (1 +1)
Bull's Strength (Transmutation)
*Shield Other (Abjuration)

Taken Protection and Divination as domains (possible change to dwarf, metal or caverns if approved)
  
  
 ------------------------ Description -----------------------
Height: 4' 5"             Weight: 178 lbs.                Gender: Male	
Eyes:   Smooth gray  Hair: Bald, Beard in Braids    Skin: Gray with veins of mineral veins
Quirks: Honest; My word is my bond. Honor above all.
Speech style: Soft Voice       
Quotable: Even without feet, I could kill you.
```


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## Blackrat (Aug 16, 2007)

Damn. I'd so much love to play this but I think I have too much on my hands right now. So I have to fold. I just don't have enough time to get a good background done by saturday.


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

So, if at least some people support it then it's legitimate.. Even if they only support it on fear of Death. 
*sigh*  That means that ALL governments are legitimate, b/c even if there IS resistance/infighting, there's SOMEONE who is supporting the ruler, or he/she/they wouldn't be in power in the first place.
Therefore the whole "respect legitimate authority" thing makes absolutely no sense, b/c technically, a balor taking over a town is 'legitimate' authority.. Most of the people aren't going to oppose him, cuz he'll kill them.


> It's upon your paladin to change that, but he could just as easily start slaying those supportive of evil goverment, as try to get it right from the inside following lawful methods. Point isn't who decides, but that YOU shouldn't. Who appointed YOU as legitimate authority do decide if another is legitimate.



? So I can't oppose the government directly, but I can undercut their support by killing everyone UNDERNEATH them?



Also, on a side note, Robo-Cop is the best example of a present-day Paladin, not Superman.
Prime Directives: 1) "Serve the public trust" 2) "Protect the innocent" 3) "Uphold the law" 
(In that order)

*And just for the record, I've never been to the states either*


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Another sigh*

No, I said if MOST people, not SOME, support it.

Yes, Robocop is good example of unlawful vigilante. He destroyed half the town because he believed to be right. (And because he was programmed that way, it was programming bug    )

Just on the side note: how many innocents were (or could have been) hurt when those robotic robo-cops started shooting at him and all around him in front of corporate building. He didn't stop because of that...(if I got some facts wrong forgive me, it was at least 10 years ago...)

Should we close this discussion? I do believe you're upholding today's Good laws instead of laws in general, but that's something you'll have to resolve with our Game Master. I'll admit that there is lots and lots of gray area in this regard.

Planar example: Githyanki are ruled by a lich queen after 60+ generations of evil rulers. If Vlaakith had a heir and she is killed/replaced, would that heir be legitimate (I'm sure she is evil just not what exact evil). Or New and Improved goverment (TM) would be legitimate?


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## Caros (Aug 16, 2007)

*Oi.*

I've seen this arguement more times than I care to count, and it leads to a whole bushel of problems that, if taken out of context invalidate the paladin class itself.

Take for example, a paladin visiting "X" Evil nation. He sees a woman being beaten to death in the streets, she's a slave and it is legal in this nation for her to be killed this way.  If you argue that the paladin code says a paladin must consider any government that holds sway over a large area as legitimate, the sheer act of seeing this causes a paladin to lose his abilities.

Why? Simple. If he interfears, he is breaking the laws of a legitimate government in saving the woman. If he does not he is willfully committing an evil act, or at the very least he is not helping an innocent in need, which is a different violation of the paladin code.

The simplest solution then, is to have a governments legitimacy decided by the paladin's order. Thats one thing a lot of people tend to forget, most if not all paladin's belong to an order, and most of those orders will at some point say "Laws against slavery are abhorent to the mighty "X" and need not be considered legitimate" In this situation the paladin can rush in and save the damsel without any negitive effect or hard moral choice to himself.

Just my two cents anyways. 

And on that note, my character build is now a work in progress. Should be up before 12:00 ish hopefully.


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## Neurotic (Aug 16, 2007)

*Deus ex machina*

Yes, order declares it. And that usually means calling upon their patron god. I agree and thank you for giving us way out of the maze 

It's 04:30 PM and I'm going home. Any other who wants to discuss various topic can find me tomorrow.

Try also Skype: simpi238 or MSN s_hajnal#@#hotmail.com (remove hashes)


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## Wrahn (Aug 16, 2007)

Robocop is closer to Lawful Neutral than Lawful Good.  (At least in the first movie)

If all else fails, I believe the paladin is intended to be more good then they are lawful.  Their code prohibits them from associating with evil people, but may freely associate with chaotic, they smite and detect evil, not chaos.  If there is a conflict between their Ethos (Law/Chaos axis) and Morality (Good/Evil axis) then I believe they should go with the good.  Save the slave and try to make amends legally in the above example.  I certainly know that I would not punish a paladin for doing such.

Of course if the paladin was sneaking into the evil city to free the princess and saw the slave being beaten to death and did nothing... Well I would probably not strip him of his status either, but I would make sure his conscious played on him, but then I would have been kind of a jerk to have put the paladin in the situation of putting his party and mission in danger versus saving the innocent to begin with.

In the end, a paladin has enough trouble with the right thing being the stupid thing that I believe straightjacketing them into having to obey a Chaotic Evil authority figure is just down right mean spirited.

Taken to extremes, a paladin would lose his status if a Demon had enslaved a village and when the paladin came to stop him, the demon tossed him a baby and told him to eat it.  If he doesn't he is not following the "legitimate" authority (ruler of the village, the villagers all accept his rule, because if they don't they will die), if he does he is commiting a horrific act (cannabilism and murder).


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## Shayuri (Aug 16, 2007)

I'm pretty sure being Lawful doesn't mean you have to obey every law.

It means you're an orderly person...you're organized, you do things in habitual, predictable ways.

Even a paladin, who's devotion to Lawfulness is above and beyond the norm and who DOES have an obligation to obey and follow laws of conduct doesn't have to obey and follow ALL laws of conduct. Paladins have a very specific code of honor. That's what they have to obey. A paladin might, by virtue of being very "lawful" and very "good," try to recognize and honor the laws of a foreign land _when doing so wouldn't violate his paladin vows._

Similarly, just because he's in a nation where's okay to steal...that doesn't mean he'll steal. He is guided by his own code, the Paladin Oath, first and foremost, and he carries it with him everywhere he goes. A law that requires him to break the oath can be ignored without him becoming "chaotic."


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## Jemal (Aug 16, 2007)

Allright, I think I'm gonna stop arguing about it, b/c I have yet to meet a fence-sitter on this issue.. Everyone seems pretty adamantly placed about what Pallies can/can't do, and thus the circular arguments deliver nothing but frustration.

I will say TWO things about it : 
A)  I disagree Whole-Heartedly with Neurotic's point of view, but still recognize that, as opinions, they are both equally valid.

B) Upon checking, I note that The Paladin's code doesn't actually require you to FOLLOW the orders of legitimate authority, merely to respect the fact that they ARE legitimate.  Anybody who's read a good book or any comics knows that it's possible to RESPECT someone even as you are trying to destroy them.


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## Neurotic (Aug 17, 2007)

Thank you, Jemal. I'm looking forward to in-game discussions of Ebon vs. Sky...er...Windwalker 

I don't think any of us obeys ALL of the laws. Sometimes just because they are silly, sometimes out of habit, some we are not aware of etc. Paladin should try to obey all the laws to such extent that he will ask local guards for local laws and customs. Breaking his code vs. breaking a law is no contest.

But other laws SHOULD be obeyed.

Wrahn: what's the point of having paladin in a party if you won't at least sometimes bring it to the fore and make him think of his code first and foremost and then mission and "lesser evils". I'm not saying you do it all the time that would be mean.

But avoiding it is to easy for paladin. Most of it's restrictions are role-playing and as such should get a spotlight from time to time.


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## Wrahn (Aug 17, 2007)

Neurotic said:
			
		

> Wrahn: what's the point of having paladin in a party if you won't at least sometimes bring it to the fore and make him think of his code first and foremost and then mission and "lesser evils". I'm not saying you do it all the time that would be mean.




In a world where morality is more than black and white the paladin becomes a difficult character to play no matter how you look at it.  If you look at an orc as more than a bag of hit points, defending a village from a rampaging orc tribe is easy, but what about tracking the tribe back to it's home and destroying the tribe?  Sure it protects the village, but surely not all the orcs are responsible for the death dealt by their fellows and then there are the orc children...

Then there is the dreaded words coming out of the DMs mouth: unconscious.  You can't just execute a helpless prisoner, of course you can't let them go either.  A paladin's code will get you into to trouble with very little interference from the DM, specifically setting out to put a paladin in an impossible situation seems to be overkill and unnecessarily punitive to an already bad situation.

Now a DM can advance a plot or make it more exciting by playing on the paladin's code and that is just part of the game.  The afformentioned sneaking through the evil city and seeing an innocent in danger can change a situation with little risk (and thus not all that exciting) to a really dangerous one (and thus having the players throw things at you and you having accomplished your job as a DM).  I just don't believe in punishing a player for it.  It is the player's character and if they do not wish to explore the impossiblity of the moral ideal, then I should not foist it upon them.


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## Jemal (Aug 17, 2007)

so on another Note, did Neph go to GenCon or something? He hasn't been on in 2 days.

Also, Neurotic - I, too, am looking forward to the character interaction.


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## Nephtys (Aug 17, 2007)

2 days,   , I've got to live a little too, every now and then.

I'm not too fond of paladins myself, good thing Jemal is not making one. Even in "good" societies the laws do not exist primarily to promote good but to protect property, and societies that put the right of every individual to live a good life ahead of the rights of some people to live better lives than others are utopias that do not work when put into practice. Communism is a Good idea (the ultimate in LG), but idealism is doomed to fail in a realistic world.
The legitimacy of a government in the real world is not legally determined by how the government rules but by international treaty. Basically, (and very basically at that) if a state is a member of the UN its government is legitimate by default. Sovereignty is the fundamental principle in international law. Obviously that doesn't translate into the game and how Greyguards interact with the game-world. Jemal's character can perhaps consider the governments that existed before the invasion legitimate authorities, as a human he probably would. A demon otoh, if it cared about notions of legitimacy, would consider its own authority legitimate. I'm a moral relativist, and you can be too if you want .


Anyway, sorry for derailing the thread. I still need some more concepts from some of you.

--

Prospective Players: Concepts= *

ethandrew *
Jemal *
Shayuri
Blackrat
Caros
Autumn *
Gli'jar
Voda Vosa
WarlockLord *
Fenris2 *
Neurotic *
Trollbabe *
Sasquatch
-
Bloodsquig *
Wrahn


----------



## Shayuri (Aug 17, 2007)

Hee. Mustn't threadjack. Mustn't argue. 

I am almost ready, but I have a question for the hive mind. There's a lot of PC's in this game so far, so lemme posit three basic concepts, and see which one seems the most useful/the least toe-steppy.

1) Straight monk. The easiest of the three to explain, because it's just a monk. 

2) Either a Ninja/Scout, or a Scout/Ranger. Tipping a bit towards Scout/Ranger, really. Focus on stealth and mobility. Favored Enemy would be Evil Outsiders, Undead, and...something else. Constructs maybe, for those darn Retrievers.

3) Monk/Sorc or Ninja/Sorc with Ascetic Mage feat. Possible Spellwarp Sniper PrC to go with, especially if it's a ninja/sorc. Would be powerful against single powerful foes...but not much as far as roomsweeping goes. Likely to be unusually good at melee for a mage.

Concept is the same for all three. Somewhere in the world, in the high mountains, one of the last enclaves of mortals fell. A fortress monestery. The people there were killed or enslaved to the last, but for one who was somehow saved (via secret room or magical spell). Swering vengeance, this survivor descends from the mountains and infiltrates the demons' world... The character is neutral, perhaps lawful neutral. Might lean good, but ultimately a vendetta is not a Good pursuit. 

So! Mechanically speaking, which of those seems better?


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## Nephtys (Aug 17, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> _____________________
> 
> I just realized now, after wanting to run this PrC for a long time, that it doesn't have spell progression. My heart just sank. It looks like I will run the Druid Master of Many Forms.
> 
> ...




I can't make such a great change to the class, especially not without knowing which abilities it gets in return for the loss of full spell progression. I'm going to have to assume that the class is balanced as written, or risk opening up a huge can of worms.

You would probably be well off even without the non-suitable exalted feats. The relaxation of the alignment restrictions is probably a balanced tradeoff.



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> So I've discovered a major problem upon looking over the Grayguard.
> 
> As previously noted, it has the same basic code of conduct as a paladin, but relaxed.
> The problem is, until 10th level, they STILL loose their paladin & Grayguard abilities (Smite, Divine Grace, Lay-on-hands) when they break their code...  It's just that when they atone, it's automatic and doesn't require XP (Normally it's assumed that the Paladin must prove they're sorry, but with grayguards the Priest goes "OK, so you did this for the order, here's your atonement spell).  At 10th level, they have to do something DELIBERATELY bad to break their code.
> ...




Pray really hard and your god will give you back your powers if he thinks you deserve them .

And yes, 32 point buy. HPs roll dice or at least half, full at lvl1.



			
				Blackrat said:
			
		

> Damn. I'd so much love to play this but I think I have too much on my hands right now. So I have to fold. I just don't have enough time to get a good background done by saturday.




Sorry to hear that. You're welcome to make an alternate. 



			
				Neurotic said:
			
		

> Questions:
> 1. How does summoning, calling, banishment etc work with planar borders sealed?
> 2. How does commune and similar divination spells work?
> 3. What about plane shifting?
> 4. If demon is killed is he killed permanently? Or just banished back to abbys? Or his layer or whatever...




1. Summoning as normal, calling no, banishing generally no.
2. As normal, but the gods are still pretty blind to most of what goes on in the world.
3. As normal within the ethereal and shadow planes coterminous with the world (not the astral), but those places are also full of demons and pretty devoid of everything else.
4. Yes, usually. No. No.


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## Caros (Aug 18, 2007)

Odd as it is, I think I'm actually gonna have to backout. Trying to do too much with too little time. Biggest problem right now is that I don't have a functional concept that appeals to me within the setting. With that in mind if something comes up I'll construct it and post it as a possible alternate

Enjoy guys!


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## ethandrew (Aug 18, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> I can't make such a great change to the class, especially not without knowing which abilities it gets in return for the loss of full spell progression. I'm going to have to assume that the class is balanced as written, or risk opening up a huge can of worms.




I totally understand. What the class does is basically makes a telekinesis specialist, allowing them to master the spell and go between the three different varieties. Doesn't seem too wholly powerful to me, which is why I assumed full spell progression.

The master of many forms is such a strong class that the loss of bonus exalted feats will not hinder the character at all. In fact, I was wondering what my character should do with all that 110,000gp. Buy a +4 Tome and read it? Or throw it all in a wishing well?

Anyway, I am submitting this and hopefully will get a background up soon, but I just moved and my internet is not reliable as of yet, so I might not be able to get anything in as I hope. Just giving forewarning.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 18, 2007)

Gli'jar said:
			
		

> Warlocklord I noticed a problem with your classes. Archivists are an interesting way of filling the cleric slot without being a cleric. The spells the archivist draws from is the cleric spell list. Domains spells purposely exist outside this list, hence they are solely domain unless otherwise noted. Additionally, you cannot cast your domain spells from the bonus domain you gain from contemplative either. Since they are domain spells they must be cast from domain slot which the archivist does not possess.




Sorry, my mistake regarding being archivist spells, seems you can learn divine spells from any divine scroll, quite powerful considering all the domains now. However I think the bonus domain spells still applies. I reread the archivist and tried to repost but have been unable to until now.


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## WarlockLord (Aug 18, 2007)

Sorry I couldn't post yesterday.  Things came up, and Enworld went down.

Edited in leiu of what's above.

I can post stats tomorrow.


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## Bloosquig (Aug 18, 2007)

Sup all I've edited my previous post with my fully statted char any feedback would be nice as it's both my first psionic character and my first warrior type in as long as I can remember.    

I might be just an alt but I could still use the feedback.   

---

The lowish armor can be boosted with a healthy powered up _force shield _ for tougher fights plus he has  self healing spells and the ability to share out his own damage with his foes.  
I like the bite of the wolf but do secondary attacks like that get the full str bonus on attack rolls?  I know they only get half the bonus for damage.  

And for those familiar with half-giants their large stature racial ability makes them act a lot like a large creature instead of a medium one with the exception of gaining reach and letting them fit in a 5' square.  So do his natural attacks (like unarmed strikes and bites   ) use large creature damage or medium?  Just curious what you guys had to say about it.


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## Wrahn (Aug 18, 2007)

I suppose I will post a concept at least:

Arctius Jandling
Fighter/Wizard/Human Paragon/Spellsword/Abjurant Champion

In a different world, in a different life Arctius Jandling would have been a scholar, studying the world around him.  In this world, however, there is little room for scholars, little room for someone not capable of defending themselves.  So, he adapted.

He has lost everything that has ever mattered to him.  His family was killed when he was young, he was saved and raised by those who tried to resist.  He grew up fighting the demon and the lords, watching his friends die.  The resistance had victories, but they were fleeting and came a terrible prices.  He was lucky, he always survived when the retaliation came.  He was always among the few that started over, recruiting more to try to strike against their oppressors.

Years past, and every year people willing to risk their lives to save others became less and less, people willing to die for the cause that became fewer and fewer, until the last time, when the demons discovered them and wiped them out yet again, and yet again Arctius survived, he came to realize the resistance had failed, that there was no way they were going to able to throw off the yoke of oppressor or even hurt the lords significantly.

So instead of moving on to a different ineffective resistance cell, he turncoated, he began working for the Lords.  That isn't to say he abandon his beliefs, but that he realizes that the resistance has failed and it is time for different measures.

He has a plan, but needs more information, information not available to a freedom fighter, so he has become the thing he hates in the desperate hope he can pull off a miracle.


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## Jemal (Aug 18, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> I'm not too fond of paladins myself, good thing Jemal is not making one.




ER.. the grayguard Is STILL a paladin, just with a slightly relaxed code and a more dark outlook.  Does that mean you don't want the grayguard?


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## Autumn (Aug 18, 2007)

I'm working on Ysande now. Nephtys, how do you feel about the Leadership feat? It'd suit Ysande down to the ground and it's included in her current write up but I don't want to waste time building a cohort if you won't allow the feat. 

 If on the other hand you will allow it, I'll be taking a Half-Fiend Rogue cohort with your permission.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 18, 2007)

Character: Canthan
Class: Conjurer 5/ Alienist 8
Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral Evil

Personality: Canthan seeks to increase his power and open a portal to the far realm. Quite meticulous he is a planner and dislikes being harried. He has no qualms about who he works with as long as they do not prevent him from his ultimate goal. He sees the lords and their allies as a stumbling block in his plans as seeks to undermine their power base by pitting them against each other. 

Background:  It was not too long ago. It came to me in a dream. I can only describe it as a presence for my mind could not comprehend its entirety.  I was consumed and reshaped with the knowledge I now carry. It gave me knowledge and whispered secrets in my ear, secrets of power.  I can hear it now, on the wind, there, feast upon the desecrated, it says.  

It bade me seek one of its servitors, an ancient aboleth in the husk of a ruined civilization. The beast was a wreck, its obsession obvious. It knew I was coming however and was prepared. Though it was the elder, its knowledge concerning the outside was limited. While it instructed me and passed its knowledge onto me I fed it information and sought out relics, instruments, and other items to further our joint studiesThe rotting god is the key I soon learned. Within it is enough power to open a door beyond the veil. I must retrieve and return with the flesh of the rotting god. 

I have to secure aid however, this is not something I am prepared to do alone. I must work within the power structure of the world. Enclave, demon lord, human lord they are all the same. They want my allegiance, I owe allegiance only to myself.. They want my services, well that is another story. My services are always for sale if you can meet the price. 

Hooks:
1) The rotting god is a font of power that can be tapped and those powers beyond the veil are whispering to Canthan how to do it.
2) Canthan is determined (obsessed) to conduct his ritual upon the rotting god and increase his power and complete the ritual
3) He is working with an aboleth, need I say more.

Did you want the character crunch now?


----------



## Gli'jar (Aug 18, 2007)

WarlockLord said:
			
		

> Pseudonatural template
> 1-3: Acid/electricity resistance 5
> 4-7: Acid/electricity resistance 5, DR 5/magic
> 8-11: Acid/electricity resistance 10, DR 5/magic
> 12+ :Acid/electricity resistance 10, DR 10/magic




I just noticed a problem you and I may face if either, or one of us get a go at this. If we use summon monster to attack demonic foes we are at a small disadvantage. Since we can no longer summon celestial forces we cannot bypass damage reduction of most demons however if I extend the logic of the DR system unless the demons are using a magic weapon, they strike as evil or chaotic and therefore they cannot bypass our summoned creatures DR. This is bolstered by reading the combat sections of a named demon and compare it to a gargoyle. 

Nephtys what is your take?


----------



## WarlockLord (Aug 18, 2007)

I could probably learn align fang/weapon.  Problem solved, but I will wait for Nephtys' take.

Meanwhile...

Mystic, the Nameless One
Human Archivist 11/Contemplative1/Alienist 1
Alignment True Neutral

[sblock=stats]
Str 8
Dex 14
Con 12
Int 21 (25 with hat)
WIs 14
Cha 10

XP:78,000
Initiative +6
HP: 66
AC: 19
BAB +5

Attack: +5 (1d8+1d6 fire)

Saves:
Fort:+10
Ref: +5
Will: +11


Skills: Concentration +17, Decipher Script +25, Gather Information +4, Knowledge (arcana) +23, Knowledge (planar) +28, Knowledge (dungeoneering)+23, Knowledge (religion)+25, Spellcraft +25, 

Feats: Improved Initiative, Scribe Scroll, Skill Focus (Knowledge: The Planes), Empower Spell, Heighten Spell, Quicken Spell, SF: Conjuration, Augment Summoning

Prayerbook:
0- all cleric
1-bless, cure light wounds, protection from good, entrophic shield, endure elements, protection from evil, shield of faith, summon monster I, sanctuary, silent image, snake's swiftness, charm person, entangle, 
2- augury, hold person, summon monster II, silence, mirror image, align weapon, align fang,
3- dispel magic, summon monster III, invisibility purge, searing light, displacement, ghoul gesture, suggestion, charm monster, lightning bolt, haste, evard's black tentacles, vampiric touch, fly, call lightning, poison, 
4- summon monster IV, divine power, restoration, dimensional anchor, phantasmal killer, enervation, flame strike, confusion, polymorph 
5- commune, raise dead, summon monster V, true seeing, persistent image, shadow evocation, heal, baleful polymorph, slay living, plane shift, 
6- blade barrier, summon monster VI, greater dispel magic, harm, mislead, magic jar, hold monster, 
7-destruction, summon monster VII, word of balance, resurrection, project image, greater teleport, 

Spells added with cash:
Illusion Domain
1: silent image
2: mirror image
3: displacement
4: phantasmal killer
5: persistent image
6: mislead
7: project image
Snake's Swiftness (Druid 1): close range, give ally extra attack
Charm Person (Lust 1)
Ghoul Gesture (Hunger 3): ray paralyzes subject unless they make fortitude save, medium range, fortitude negates, duration 1 round/level
Enervation (Hunger 4)
Evard's Black Tentacles (Blackwater 3)
Vampiric Touch (Necromancy 3)
Shadow Evocation (Shadow 5)
Magic Jar (Spirit 6)
Suggestion (Tyranny 3)
Charm Monster (Charm 3)
Haste (Celerity 3)
Lightning Bolt (adept 3)
Flame Strike (Druid 4)
Baleful Polymorph (Druid 5)
Heal (adept 5)
Entangle (druid 1)
Confusion (trickery 4)
Slay Living, (cleric 5)
Greater Teleport (Travel 7)
Fly (Travel 3)
Plane Shift (Cleric 5)
Hold Monster (Law 6)
Call Lightning (Druid 3)
Poison (Druid 3)
Polymorph (adept 4)
Align Fang (druid 2, as align weapon but for natural attacks)
Align Weapon (cleric 2)
Total Spell Cost (Scrolls+Scribing costs): 36,250 gp

Spells Per Day: 4/6/6/5/5/4/3/2
Prepared (DC 17+ level):
0- detect magic (2), light, cure minor wounds,
1- bless, cure light wounds (2), snake's swiftness, silent image, charm person,
2- hold person, silence, mirror image, align fang, augury, align weapon
3- dispel magic, invisibility purge (2), evard's black tentacles, haste, 
4- polymorph, divine power, enervation, flame strike, restoration, 
5- raise dead, heal (2), summon monster V,
6-blade barrier, magic jar, mislead,
7-greater teleport, summon monster VII

Special: Dark Knowledge 6/day (tactics, pussiance, foe, dread secret), Lore Mastery (planar and religion), Still Mind (+2 save vs. enchantments),+1 caster level to illusions (IIlusion domain), Summon Alien, 



Possessions: +1 flaming heavy mace, +3 chain shirt, Heward's handy haversack, carpet of flying (5 feet by 5 feet), 10 prayerbooks, fire elemental gem, top hat that has the same stats as a headband of intellect +4, traveler's outfit, tent, waterskin, 2 pounds of soap, 150 feet of silk rope, 4 days of trail rations, 14,543 gp, 10 doses primal dust,* wooden holy symbol of the Balance, magic jar focus (100 gp gem), augury focus (a set of marked bones worth 25 gp), 3 doses of incense (for augury, 25 gp each) 

[/sblock]
Background: The Mystic, or the Nameless One as he is sometimes called, is a disiciple of the balance. It all began when he read a book about the gods at the age of 8.
"Why have the gods gone, Mommy?"
"The demons took over."

As he witnessed the corruption and predation of the demons, he realized that something had to be done. But as he studied more, he realized that evil is necessary to balance the good, and that without one, the other cannot survive.

The balance had been disrupted, however, and our hero set off to restore it. Abandoning his previous name as part of his old life, and fearful of demonic retaliation against those he knew, he became the Mystic.

Appearance: The Mystic wears a chain shirt, a black cape, and a top hat. He carries a short metal walking stick (a heavy mace) which is powerfully enchanted, and a crossbow at his belt. Around his neck hangs an amulet of the Balance: a wooden scale, perfectly balanced. He is a young man of 21, with straight black hair cut short and a goatee.

Personality: Driven, focused, and dedicated, but has a great sense of humor and a scathing wit.

Dogma: Reality is an illusion, maintained by the four Great powers: Good, Law, Chaos, and Evil. These powers consistently struggle to reform the world in it's own image, and all of these would be bad. In a perfect good world, nothing could be achieved, and self-sacrifice would rule. A lawful world is a great gray space, a chaotic world eternally changing and random. and an evil world- where we are now.

As a side note, pseudonatural creatures are outside of this struggle and are good summons for neutral divine casters

Hooks: Will his traffic with alien creatures drive him insane? Will his identity be discovered?

*primal dust is a substance from Complete Mage.  It comes in doses worth 100 gp, and it can be used to substitute for any costly matierial component.  Each dose simulates 100 gp worth of a component, no more, no less.  I can get rid of it if needed.

I also had him buy those spells I wanted Nephtys to look at, but those can go if needed.

EDIT: Changed to purchase align fang & weapon.


----------



## Autumn (Aug 19, 2007)

Some crunch for Ysande, sans cohort until Leadership is approved. 

 I've included some feats from Complete Adventurer, with summaries of what they do. Obviously I can change them if you're unhappy with them Nephtys. 

 [sblock=Ysande]
*Ysande Zallarhim*
Human Female
Chaotic Good
Bard 13

8 Strength (-1) (0 pts.)
17 Dexterity (+3) (5 pts., +4 Enhancement)
12 Constitution (+1) (2 pts., +2 Enhancement)
16 Intelligence (+3) (10 pts.)
10 Wisdom (+0) (2 pts.)
26 Charisma (+8) (13 pts., 3 level, +6 Enhancement)

BAB: +9
Grapple: +8
HP: 63  (HD 13d6; rolls + 13)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft
ACP: -0
AC: 21 (+3 Dex, +6 Armor, +2 Deflection); touch 13, flat-footed 18

Fort Saves: +5 (4 Base +1 Con)
Reflex Saves: +11 (8 Base +3 Dex)
Will Saves: +16 (8 Base +8 Cha)

Attack:
+13 Melee, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2 (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)
+13 Ranged, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2, range 10ft (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)

+13 Melee, Damage 1d2-1 Subdual, 20/x2, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)
+15 Melee, Disarm, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)

+13 Ranged, Damage 1d8+1+1d6 Frost, Range 80 ft (Masterwork Crossbow/+1 Frost Bolt)

Full Attack
+13/+8 Melee, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2 (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)
+13/+8 Ranged, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2, range 10ft (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)

+13/+8 Melee, Damage 1d2-1 Subdual, 20/x2, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)
+15/+11 Melee, Disarm, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)

Feats:
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse
Versatile Performer (Complete Adventure 112. You pick a number of Perform Categories equal to your Int modifier, and treat them as equal to your highest Perform category. +2 on Perform checks when using more than one type of Performance at once.)
Force of Personality (Complete Adventurer 109. Use Cha instead of Wis on Will Saves.)
Disguise Spell (Complete Adventurer 108. Cast spells as part of a performance. Observers make a Spot check opposed by your Perform check to tell you are casting. Even if they can tell, they cannot identify the spell with Spellcraft.)
Leadership (19 = 13 level +8 Cha -1 [moves around a lot] -1 [recruits a cohort of a different alignment]. Level 11 Cohort, 40 1st level followers, 4 2nd level followers, 2 3rd level followers, 1 4th level follower, 1 5th level follower)

Abilities:
Bardic Music (13/day)
-Countersong
-Fascinate (5 targets)
-Inspire Courage +2
-Inspire Competence
-Suggestion (DC 24)
-Inspire Greatness (2 targets)
-Song of Freedom
Bardic Knowledge (+17)

Skills: (160; max ranks 16/8) 
+27 Bluff (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence)
+17 Concentration (16 ranks, +1 Con)
+31 Diplomacy (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, + 2 Synergy [bluff], +2 Synergy [sense motive], +3 Competence)
+19/22 Disguise (8 ranks, + 8 Cha, +2 Synergy [bluff] when acting in character, +3 Competence)
+23 Gather Information (12 ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence)
+5 Knowledge (Arcana) (2 ranks, + 3 Int)
+8 Knowledge (History) (4 ranks, +3 Int)
+4 Knowledge (Religion) (1 rank, + 3 Int)
+7 Knowledge (The Planes) (4 ranks, + 3 Int)
+27/+29 Perform (Sing) (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
*+27/+29 Perform (Dance) (16 <free> ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
*+27/+29 Perform (String Instruments) (16 <free> ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
*+27/+29 Perform (Oratory) (16 <free> ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
+16 Sense Motive (16 ranks, + 0 Wis)
+17 Sleight of Hand (12 ranks, +3 Dex, +2 Synergy [bluff])
+12/+14 Spellcraft (8 ranks, + 4 Int, +2 Synergy [Use Magic Device] when deciphering scrolls)
+15 Tumble (12 ranks, +3 Dex)
+27/+29 Use Magic Device (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, +2 Synergy [Spellcraft] when using scrolls, +3 Competence)

Languages:
Common
Abyssal
Ignan
Draconic

Spells:

Level 0: (3/day, DC 18)
Dancing Lights
Detect Magic
Lullaby
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Read Magic

Level 1: (5/day, DC 19)
Charm Person
Disguise Self
Feather Fall
Tasha's Hideous Laughter

Level 2: (5/day, DC 20)
Detect Thoughts
Glitterdust
Mirror Image
Silence

Level 3: (5/day, DC 21)
Charm Monster
Glibness
Haste 
Major Image

Level 4: (4/day, DC 22)
Cure Critical Wounds
Greater Invisibility
Hold Monster
Modify Memory

Level 5: (1/day, DC 23)
Mirage Arcana
Mislead

Equipment: 
2x Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger (1d4, 19-20/x2, 1208 gp)
Masterwork Whip (1d2+2, x2, 301 gp)
Masterwork Light Crossbow (1d8, 19-20/x2, 80 ft range, 335 gp)
50x +1 Frost Bolts (+1d6 Frost, 8,350 gp)
+2 Glamered Mithral Chain Shirt (+6 AC, -0 ACP, 7,800 gp)
Amulet of Health +2 (4,000 gp)
Gloves of Dexterity +4 (16,000 gp)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (32,000 gp)
Ring of Mind Shielding (8,000 gp)
Circlet of Persuasion (3,000 gp)
Ring of Protection +2 (8,000 gp)
2x Wand of Cure Light Wounds (1,500 gp)
Wand of Alarm (750 gp)
Scroll Case (1 gp)
2x Scroll of Wall of Force (2,250 gp)
Scroll of Scrying (700 gp)
Scroll of Sending (700 gp)
Scroll of Nondetection (700 gp)
Scroll of Wind Walk (1,650 gp)
Scroll of Antilife Shell (1,650 gp)
Scroll of True Seeing (1,375 gp)
4x Scroll of Bull's Strength (750 gp)
4x Scroll of Bear's Endurance (750 gp)
Scroll of Disintegrate (1,650 gp)
Scroll of Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum (1,125 gp)
Scroll of Freedom of Movement (1000 gp)
2x Scroll of Heal (3300 gp)
655 gp[/sblock]


----------



## Nephtys (Aug 19, 2007)

Caros said:
			
		

> Odd as it is, I think I'm actually gonna have to backout. Trying to do too much with too little time. Biggest problem right now is that I don't have a functional concept that appeals to me within the setting. With that in mind if something comes up I'll construct it and post it as a possible alternate
> 
> Enjoy guys!




Sorry about that, you can still come back later as an alternate.




			
				ethandrew said:
			
		

> I totally understand. What the class does is basically makes a telekinesis specialist, allowing them to master the spell and go between the three different varieties. Doesn't seem too wholly powerful to me, which is why I assumed full spell progression.
> 
> The master of many forms is such a strong class that the loss of bonus exalted feats will not hinder the character at all. In fact, I was wondering what my character should do with all that 110,000gp. Buy a +4 Tome and read it? Or throw it all in a wishing well?
> 
> Anyway, I am submitting this and hopefully will get a background up soon, but I just moved and my internet is not reliable as of yet, so I might not be able to get anything in as I hope. Just giving forewarning.




You're probably right, but others could argue the same for their classes and it's easier just to draw the line here.
The Master of many forms looks very interesting, I'm looking forwads to seeing it. As for the wealth   , maybe you never had it in the first place or had to use it to buy your loved ones out of prison, spent it on a succubus prostitute or bought a house in an overheated market .



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> ER.. the grayguard Is STILL a paladin, just with a slightly relaxed code and a more dark outlook.  Does that mean you don't want the grayguard?




And that makes all the difference. 



			
				Autumn said:
			
		

> I'm working on Ysande now. Nephtys, how do you feel about the Leadership feat? It'd suit Ysande down to the ground and it's included in her current write up but I don't want to waste time building a cohort if you won't allow the feat.
> 
> If on the other hand you will allow it, I'll be taking a Half-Fiend Rogue cohort with your permission.




Leadership is ok. You can play your cohort for the most part, but I reserve the right to pull his strings occasionally.



			
				Gli'jar said:
			
		

> I just noticed a problem you and I may face if either, or one of us get a go at this. If we use summon monster to attack demonic foes we are at a small disadvantage. Since we can no longer summon celestial forces we cannot bypass damage reduction of most demons however if I extend the logic of the DR system unless the demons are using a magic weapon, they strike as evil or chaotic and therefore they cannot bypass our summoned creatures DR. This is bolstered by reading the combat sections of a named demon and compare it to a gargoyle.
> 
> Nephtys what is your take?




Warlocklord has a good solution. 
--

Sorry all, for my absence but my internet-connection is a bit unreliable. It's disconnected me several times today and it takes a while to get back online when it works at all. So for my sake and your I'm extending the deadling until monday, when I will make my selection of players.


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## Autumn (Aug 19, 2007)

Ysande, completed version with fluff and cohort. 

 [sblock=Ysande]
*Ysande Zallarhim*
Human Female
Chaotic Good
Bard 13

8 Strength (-1) (0 pts.)
17 Dexterity (+3) (5 pts., +4 Enhancement)
12 Constitution (+1) (2 pts., +2 Enhancement)
16 Intelligence (+3) (10 pts.)
10 Wisdom (+0) (2 pts.)
26 Charisma (+8) (13 pts., 3 level, +6 Enhancement)

BAB: +9
Grapple: +8
HP: 63  (HD 13d6; rolls + 13)
Initiative: +7
Speed: 30 ft
ACP: -0
AC: 21 (+3 Dex, +6 Armor, +2 Deflection); touch 13, flat-footed 18

Fort Saves: +5 (4 Base +1 Con)
Reflex Saves: +11 (8 Base +3 Dex)
Will Saves: +16 (8 Base +8 Cha)

Attack:
+13 Melee, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2 (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)
+13 Ranged, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2, range 10ft (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)

+13 Melee, Damage 1d2-1 Subdual, 20/x2, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)
+15 Melee, Disarm, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)

+13 Ranged, Damage 1d8+1+1d6 Frost, Range 80 ft (Masterwork Crossbow/+1 Frost Bolt)

Full Attack
+13/+8 Melee, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2 (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)
+13/+8 Ranged, Damage 1d4-1, 19-20/x2, range 10ft (Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger)

+13/+8 Melee, Damage 1d2-1 Subdual, 20/x2, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)
+15/+11 Melee, Disarm, range 15 ft (Masterwork Whip)

Feats:
Improved Initiative
Weapon Finesse
Versatile Performer (Complete Adventure 112. You pick a number of Perform Categories equal to your Int modifier, and treat them as equal to your highest Perform category. +2 on Perform checks when using more than one type of Performance at once.)
Force of Personality (Complete Adventurer 109. Use Cha instead of Wis on Will Saves.)
Disguise Spell (Complete Adventurer 108. Cast spells as part of a performance. Observers make a Spot check opposed by your Perform check to tell you are casting. Even if they can tell, they cannot identify the spell with Spellcraft.)
Leadership (Cohort: Level 11. Followers: 50 1st level, 5 2nd level, 3 3rd level, 2 4th level, 1th level)

Abilities:
Bardic Music (13/day)
-Countersong
-Fascinate (5 targets)
-Inspire Courage +2
-Inspire Competence
-Suggestion (DC 24)
-Inspire Greatness (2 targets)
-Song of Freedom
Bardic Knowledge (+17)

Skills: (160; max ranks 16/8) 
+27 Bluff (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence)
+17 Concentration (16 ranks, +1 Con)
+31 Diplomacy (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, + 2 Synergy [bluff], +2 Synergy [sense motive], +3 Competence)
+19/22 Disguise (8 ranks, + 8 Cha, +2 Synergy [bluff] when acting in character, +3 Competence)
+23 Gather Information (12 ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence)
+5 Knowledge (Arcana) (2 ranks, + 3 Int)
+8 Knowledge (History) (4 ranks, +3 Int)
+4 Knowledge (Religion) (1 rank, + 3 Int)
+7 Knowledge (The Planes) (4 ranks, + 3 Int)
+27/+29 Perform (Sing) (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
*+27/+29 Perform (Dance) (16 <free> ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
*+27/+29 Perform (String Instruments) (16 <free> ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
*+27/+29 Perform (Oratory) (16 <free> ranks, + 8 Cha, +3 Competence, +2 [Versatile Performer] when combined with another type of Performance.)
+16 Sense Motive (16 ranks, + 0 Wis)
+17 Sleight of Hand (12 ranks, +3 Dex, +2 Synergy [bluff])
+12/+14 Spellcraft (8 ranks, + 4 Int, +2 Synergy [Use Magic Device] when deciphering scrolls)
+15 Tumble (12 ranks, +3 Dex)
+27/+29 Use Magic Device (16 ranks, + 8 Cha, +2 Synergy [Spellcraft] when using scrolls, +3 Competence)

Languages:
Common
Abyssal
Ignan
Draconic

Spells:

Level 0: (3/day, DC 18)
Dancing Lights
Detect Magic
Lullaby
Mage Hand
Prestidigitation
Read Magic

Level 1: (5/day, DC 19)
Charm Person
Disguise Self
Feather Fall
Tasha's Hideous Laughter

Level 2: (5/day, DC 20)
Detect Thoughts
Glitterdust
Mirror Image
Silence

Level 3: (5/day, DC 21)
Charm Monster
Glibness
Haste 
Major Image

Level 4: (4/day, DC 22)
Cure Critical Wounds
Greater Invisibility
Hold Monster
Modify Memory

Level 5: (1/day, DC 23)
Mirage Arcana
Mislead

Equipment: 
2x Masterwork Cold Iron Dagger (1d4, 19-20/x2, 1208 gp)
Masterwork Whip (1d2+2, x2, 301 gp)
Masterwork Light Crossbow (1d8, 19-20/x2, 80 ft range, 335 gp)
50x +1 Frost Bolts (+1d6 Frost, 8,350 gp)
+2 Glamered Mithral Chain Shirt (+6 AC, -0 ACP, 7,800 gp)
Amulet of Health +2 (4,000 gp)
Gloves of Dexterity +4 (16,000 gp)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (32,000 gp)
Ring of Mind Shielding (8,000 gp)
Circlet of Persuasion (3,000 gp)
Ring of Protection +2 (8,000 gp)
2x Wand of Cure Light Wounds (1,500 gp)
Wand of Alarm (750 gp)
Masterwork Violin (100 gp)
Scroll Case (1 gp)
2x Scroll of Wall of Force (2,250 gp)
Scroll of Scrying (700 gp)
Scroll of Sending (700 gp)
Scroll of Nondetection (700 gp)
Scroll of Wind Walk (1,650 gp)
Scroll of Antilife Shell (1,650 gp)
Scroll of True Seeing (1,375 gp)
4x Scroll of Bull's Strength (750 gp)
4x Scroll of Bear's Endurance (750 gp)
Scroll of Disintegrate (1,650 gp)
Scroll of Mordenkainen's Private Sanctum (1,125 gp)
Scroll of Freedom of Movement (1000 gp)
2x Scroll of Heal (3300 gp)
555 gp

Appearance: In the circles in which she moves, it is a not uncommon assumption that Ysande must surely be a succubus taken human form. She is not, though her flame-red hair - worn in a bewildering array of lengths and styles - and ivory skin indicate that there might just be a certain hint of that blood in her linage. Her features are regal and delicate at the same time, her sapphire eyes as wide and innocent as a doe or as icy and compelling as an empress. Her form is slight and lithe, as slim and elegant as a sylph. She accentuates it with close-fitting, filmy dresses and a subtle dancer's sway in her movement. 

*Personality:* Ysande is something of an enigma. A life spent in intrigue and deception has taught her to keep her cards close to her chest, and that's precisely what she does. The face she presents to the world is elegant, refined and alluring, self-controlled and self-willed, with no hint of weakness. She is always composed, and always courteous. When she speaks, everybody in the room is sure she is speaking particularly to them, and when she breaks into one of her radiant smiles it is a private and confidential smile meant just for them. 

 She seems, in short, like a ray of sunshine in a world of horror and evil. She wades as deeply through the mire as anybody, but the dirt never seems to stick to her.

 This is, as far as she's concerned, the great purpose of her existence - to be a light in the darkness, to bring a flash of inspiration and beauty into lives that might otherwise be quite devoid of hope. 

*Background:* Ysande was born to a courtesan in the court of  a minor demon lord, the result of her dalliance with one of the many Tieflings - most of them distant descendants of the lord himself - who were part of his retinue. As a result, she's always been used to surviving and even thriving amongst the subtle webs of abyssal politics. With natural intelligence, a great musical talent, and extraordinary good looks - the taint of demon blood providing a frisson of the exotic - she was a natural at these games. As she grew up she became a great favorite in court and proved well able to spin some webs of her own.

 She has moved from court to court since she came of age, always in demand as word of her voice and her beauty spread. Demons like to play with mortal toys, and she knew the right games. She also had a natural instinct for the delicate business of judging that moment where the game becomes wearisome and the toy is smashed in a fit of pique. She's no stranger to close shaves, but so far she's always managed to walk the line. In her progress up the precarious and ever-shifting ladder of influence and position in the demonic courts she has certainly made her fair share of enemies, but she's also been adept at making the right allies at the right time. So far she remains one step ahead of anybody who would see her fall.

[/sblock]

Cohort:
[sblock=Kaj]
*Kaj*
Male Half-Fiend Human
Chaotic Evil 
Rogue 7

Strength 16 (+3) (4 pts., +4 Racial)
Dexterity 22 (+6) (13 pts., +4 Racial, +1 Level)
Constitution 15 (+2) (5 pts., +2 Racial)
Intelligence 14 (+2) (2 pts., +4 Racial)
Wisdom 10 (+0) (2 pts.)
Charisma 16 (+3) (6 pts., +2 Racial)

BAB: +5
Grapple: +8
HP: 49  (7d6; rolls+14)
Initiative: +10
Speed: 30 ft, fly 30 ft (average)
ACP: -0
AC: 20 (+6 Dex, +3 Armor, +1 Natural)

Attack:
+12 Melee, Damage 1d6+3, crit 19-20/x2 (+1 Shortsword)

+12 Ranged, Damage 1d8, crit 19-20/x2, Range 80 ft (Masterwork Crossbow)

Full Attack:
+10 Melee, Damage 1d6+3, crit 19-20/x2 (+1 Shortsword)
and +9 Melee, Damage 1d6+1, crit 19-20/x2 (+1 Shortsword)
and +9 Melee, Damage 1d6+1, crit 20/x2 (Bite)

Notes:
+4d6 Damage on Sneak Attacks

Fort Saves: +4 (2 base, +2 Con)
Ref Saves: +11 (5 base, +6 Dex)
Will Saves: +2 (2 base, +0 Wis)

Feats:
Improved Initiative
Two-Weapon Fighting
Weapon Finesse
Multiattack

Abilities:
Smite Good (1/day, +7 Damage)
Spell-like Abilities (CL 7, DC 13+Spell Level)
-Darkness 3/day
-Desecrate 1/day
-Unholy Blight 1/day
-Poison 3/day
Darkvision 60 ft
Immunity to Poison
Resistance 10 to Fire, Cold, Electricity and Acid
Damage Reduction 5/Magic
Spell Resistance 17
Sneak Attack +4d6
Trapfinding
Evasion
Trap Sense +2
Uncanny Dodge

Skills: (110; max ranks 10/5) 
+12 Disable Device (10 ranks, +2 Int)
+13 Disguise (10 ranks, +3 Cha)
+12 Forgery (10 ranks, +2 Int)
+16 Hide (10 ranks, +6 Dex)
+13 Intimidate (10 ranks, +3 Cha)
+8 Listen (8 ranks, +0 Wis)
+16 Move Silently (10 ranks, +6 Dex)
+16 Open Lock (10 ranks, +6 Dex)
+12 Search (10 ranks, +2 Int)
+8 Spot (8 ranks, +0 Wis)
+16 Tumble (10 ranks, +6 Dex)
+10 Use Rope ( 4 ranks, +6 Dex)

Equipment:
+1 Glamered Leather Armor (+3 AC, -0 ACP, +6 Max Dex Bonus)
+1 Shortsword (1d6, 19-20/x2)
+1 Shortsword (1d6, 19-20/x2)
Masterwork Light Crossbow (1d8, 19-20/x2)
50 Bolts

Appearance: Kaj is ever-present, a hulking presence behind Ysande's shoulder. He is unsettling to say the least, particularly as he is built like a bear - nearly seven feet tall and broad to match. His skin is a deep purple, almost black, with a scaled patch on one cheek giving his face a strange asymmetry. His eyes are flickering green flames, and a pair of bat wings are folded neatly across his back. His fiendish heritage is thus quite plain, topped off with the gleaming white fangs revealed when he smiles.

 That savage appearance is offset somewhat by the way he presents himself. He dresses in extravagant and luxurious style, always keeping up with the latest fashions of the courts. Likewise, his hair is always neatly combed back from his brow - punctuated by two curved horns - and his beard is always trimmed and oiled. Somehow these accoutrements of sophistication only serve to add to the sinister effect of his appearance. 

Personality: Kaj's manner is detached, laid-back and ironic. He keeps silent most of the time, content to let Ysande do the talking, but he always has a wry observation or a witty quip for any situation. 

 He seems, most of the time, entirely unruffled. His bad moods strike like a tropical storm. He can be pushed just so far, serene and sarcastic all the way, but once he is pushed beyond that point his rage is dark and bloody.

Ysande, it seems, is the only one who escapes both his anger and his sardonic view of the world. He seems somewhat in awe of her, and there's something very funny about the way that this creature, alternately inscrutable or terrifying, seems to turn into a blushing schoolboy with a well-placed word or touch from Ysande. 

Background: Kaj is the son of a minor demon lord. He was never favored - the victim of demonic primogeniture that classes him below his pure-blooded siblings. When Ysande came to the court of his father she found him seething with frustrated ambition. She soon realised, firstly, that he had talents that were being wasted and, secondly, that it would be an easy matter to wrap him around her little finger.

 She did just that, and found to her pleasant surprise that, beyond his immediate usefulness, she rather enjoyed his companionship. He did, at first, display unpleasant signs of jealousy when she took other lovers, but it wasn't too difficult to soothe and cajole him out of that. There's still the occasional flare, but she's sure he's under control. 

 When she moved on from that court, she took Kaj with her. He wanted to come, swayed by her promises that a better life awaited him elsewhere - and indeed, she believes it. His father, meanwhile, was happy for her to take him, glad to have him out of his hair and perhaps a little buoyed by her flattering assurances that by the next time he saw the boy he would be worthy to call himself his father's son. [/sblock]


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## Trollbabe (Aug 19, 2007)

I noticed everyone is posting full stat blocks and what not...

Should I be doing the same for Aeryk?


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## Fenris2 (Aug 19, 2007)

I was unsure of full stat blocks too. Figured I would wait till I was picked or not.


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## Autumn (Aug 19, 2007)

Oh, well, I'm not trying to jump any guns. Just, if I do get picked, I'm not sure how swiftly I would have time to delve into stat crunch. So I figured I'd do it while I had the time, and if I'm not picked then at least she'll be ready to fill an alt slot as and when it might be needed..


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## Bloosquig (Aug 19, 2007)

I was just bored so I threw out a stat block even though I'm still on "alt" status.  It's been so long since I threw together a character of any level wanted to make sure I got some of the kinks out.


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## WarlockLord (Aug 20, 2007)

I like stat blocks.  Although I hope 4e makes them much easier.


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## ethandrew (Aug 20, 2007)

I haven't come up with a name yet, and a background is still forthcoming. I'm trying to have something other than the "druidic enclave was destroyed and revenge is paramount..." variety. Anyway, here is my stat block.

[sblock=Master of Many Forms]
Male Human Druid Master of Many Forms
Alignment: NG

Abilities: (32)
STR - 8 (0 Points)
DEX - 12 (4 Points)
CON - 14 (6 Points)
INT - 16 (6 Points + 2 Exalted Abilities)
WIS - 23 (10 Points + 3 LA + 4 Exalted Abilities)
CHA - 14 (6 Points)

HP: 72 + 26 = 98 
Speed: 30ft
Initiative: +1

AC: 22 (10 + 8 Exalted Armor + 1 Dex + 2 Deflection Bonus + 1 Natural Armor)

Saves:
Fort: 14
Reflex: 10
Will: 14

BAB/Ranged/Grapple: +8/+10/+8
BAB with Simple or Natural Weapons +15/+10

Weapons:
Exalted Quarterstaff +17/+12 1d6+1 x2

Class Abilities:
Druid:
-Nature Sense
-Wild Empathy: d20+5+2+2
-Woodland Stride
-Trackless Step
-Resist Nature's Lure: Fey Bonus
-Wild Shape: 7/day
Master of Many Forms:

-Shifter's Speech
-Shapes:
 -Animal
 -Humanoid
 -Giant
 -Monstrous Humanoid
 -Fey
 -Vermin
 -Aberration
 -Plant
 -Ooze
-Sizes:
 -Diminutive
 -Tiny
 -Small
 -Medium
 -Large
 -Huge
-Fast Wild Shape
-Extraordinary Wild Shape

Exalted Abilities:
-Endure Elements
-Greater Sustenance
-Mind Shielding
-Energy Resistance 5 Acid, Fire, Ice, Electricity, Sonic
-Damage Resistance 5/Magic
-+2 Exalted Strike Bonus
-+2 Exalted Savings Throw Bonus

Racial Abilities:
+4 Skills at 1st Level
+1 Skill at each level
Extra Feat at 1st Level
Favored Class: Any

Skills:
Concentration – 18 (16 Ranks + 2 Con)
Diplomacy – 20 (16 Ranks + 2 Cha + 2 Sacred Vow)
Handle Animal – 18 (16 Ranks + 2 Cha)
Hide – 9 (8 Ranks + 1 Dex)
Knowledge Nature – 23 (16 Ranks + 3 Int + 2 Synergy + 2 Nature Sense)
Listen – 24 (16 Ranks + 6 Wis + 2 Alertness)
Ride – 11 (8 Ranks + 1 Dex + 2 Synergy)
Spot – 32 (16 Ranks + 6 Wis + 2 Alertness + 2 Hawk’s Vision)
Survival – 26 (16 Ranks + 6 Wis + Synergy + 2 Nature Sense)

Feats:
1st-Sacred Vow
1st-Alertness
3rd-Endurance
6th-Natural Spell
9th-Vow of Poverty
12th-Hawk's Vision (CA)

Exalted Feats
9th-Exalted Wild Shape
10th-Exalted Companion
12th-Intuitive Attack

Languages:
Common
Sylvan
Abyssal
Infernal

Equipment: 
Quarterstaff

Physical Appearance: 
Age: 24
Height: 5'9"
Weight: 164lbs
Eyes: 
Hair: 
Skin: 

Background: 

Personality: 
[/sblock]


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## Neurotic (Aug 20, 2007)

*Ruling*

Um, would you please make a ruling or two so I know what I'll play with, Nephtys. I hope mail was detailed enough.

Also, I'd adjust history to include Wrahn and his fallen conclave if he agrees. Depending on how long ago that was I'd be one of the guards that followed others to new conclave only later to see the futility of it all.

We would know each other from the library of our last enclave and depending on mutual interests (knowledge skills) from discussions within.


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## Shayuri (Aug 20, 2007)

Almost done, just need to blow the last 11000gp. Narrowed it down to one of three items or so. Just gotta pick now. 

Concept is as previously posted...ie - Character is last survivor of a lonely mountain enclave that was razed. She has come to chew arse and kick bubble gum, and she's all out of...er...yeah. Basically, she's taking the long approach to vengeance. Her ultimate goal is to bring the house down on the demons, but since she's serious about it, she's trying to do it smart. She's lawful neutral, because in the end, there's not much she wouldn't do to further the goal. If she has to step on some necks to make it happen...so be it. If she has to serve some demons in order to destroy others...fine. She'll get them all in the end.

If selected, I shall writeup a full detailed background. I'm reluctant to do so in advance, as it constitutes a lot of work and effort that might be wasted if I'm not. 

Here's... [sblock=Thorn!]Name: Thorn (Amalthea-Upon-Waters)
Race: Human
Class: Monk 1 / Sorc 8 / Fatespinner 4
Align: Lawful Neutral
Exp: 

Desc: Pending

Str  9 -1  1
Dex 14 +2  6
Con 14 +2  6
Int 10 +0  2
Wis 12 +1  4
CHa 26 +8 13

HP 70 (8+12d4+26)
Init +2
Move: 30'
BAB +6/+1
Melee +5/+0
Ranged +8/+3
Grapple +9
AC 30 (10 + 2 dex + 1 monk + 1 insight + 8 cha, +2 luck, +2 def, +4 armor), 26 touch, 28 flatfooted
Buffed AC: 39 (+5 natural, +4 shield)
Will +18 (+12 base + 1 Wis + 2 luck, +3 resist)
Reflex +12 (+5 base + 2 Dex + 2 luck, +3 resist)
Fort +12 (+5 base + 2 Con + 2 luck, +3 resist)

Race Abilities
Bonus Feat
Bonus skill points

Class Abilities
Improved Unarmed Attack
Improved Grapple
Flurry of Blows

Metamagic Specialist (PHB2 Variant Class Ability)

Spin Fate (can apply up to +4 spin to spell DC)
Fickle Finger of Fate (cause other to reroll any roll as immed action 1/day)
Spin Destiny (can apply spin to saves or skill checks)
Deny Fate (autostabilize 1/day)
Resist Fate (reroll any 1 roll /day for self)

Feats
1 Eschew Materials
1 Spell Penetration
3 Empower Spell
6 Ascetic Mage
9 Quicken Spell
12 Greater Spell Penetration

Skills 20+24+12
Bluff (Cha) +13 (5 ranks + 8 Cha)
Concentration (Con) +18 (16 ranks + 2 Con)
Diplomacy (Cha) +16 (4 ranks + 8 Cha + 4 synergy)
Knowledge (arcana) (Int) +8 (6 ranks + 0 Int +2 synergy)
Listen (Wis) +5 (4 ranks + 1 Wis)
Profession (Gambler) (Wis) +6 (5 ranks + 1 Wis)
Sense Motive (Wis) +6 (5 ranks (1cc) + 1 Wis)
Spellcraft (Int) +6 (6 ranks + 0 Int)
Spot (Wis) +5 (4 ranks + 1 Wis)

Spell Slots (Caster level: 12 (16 vs SR), base DC = 18)
0 6/6, 1 - 8/8, 2 - 8/8, 3 - 8/8, 4 - 8/8, 5 - 6/6, 6 - 4/4

Known
0 Detect Magic, Mage Hand, Light, Mending, Message, Prestidigitation
1 Shield, Magic Missile, True Casting, Mage Armor, Fists of Stone
2 Scorching Ray, Baleful Transposition, Glitterdust, Invisibility, Dimension Hop
3 Disobedience, Anticipate Teleport, Dragonskin, Dispel Magic
4 Orb of Force, Dimension Anchor, Dragon's Breath
5 Cacophonic Burst, Greater Blinking
6 Greater Heroism

Buff Effects:
Shield: AC +4 (Force)
Mage Armor: AC +4 (Force)
Fists of Stone: Str +6
Disobedience: Blocks Charms/Compulsions
Dragonskin: +5 AC (Natural) +20 resist energy type
Greater Blinking: 50% miss chance, ready action to go ethereal for one attack
Greater Heroism: +4 hit, saves, immune to fear, +12 temp HP

Equipment

Money: 11,700 7gp 9sp

Weapon
Unarmed, +5 to hit, 1d6-1 dmg (+spell level hit/dmg)
Dagger, +5 to hit, 1d4-1 dmg, 1gp, 1lb
Runestaff, +7 to hit, 1d6+1 dmg, Smite for x2

Armor
Noble's Clothing, 75

Gear
Jewelry, 100
Signet Ring, 5
Tent, 10
Bedroll, 1sp
Wateskin, 1gp

Runestaff of Power, 38,300
+2/MW staff, grants +2 luck to AC and saves, each spell usable 1/day with slot of appropriate level spent.
- Cone of Cold
- Continual Flame 
- Fireball
- Globe of Invulnerability
- Hold Monster
- Levitate
- Lightning Bolt
- Magic Missile
- Ray of Enfeeblement
- Wall of Force (5'radius hemisphere around caster)

Circlet of Charisma +6, 36,000
Vest of Resistance +3, 9,000
Ring of Protection +2, 8,000
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone, 5,000
Handy Haversack, 2,000

Foci:
Anticipate Teleport, 500gp[/sblock]


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## cheshire_grin (Aug 20, 2007)

I can't tell if this is still open (for alts, I think it's closed for mains ) or not, but it sounds really, really interesting and I'd like to post a concept. I can post daily or better. I'd like to use the Bo9S if I can; I can PM all relevant details if desired.

Jeran Almistral, Human Warblade

Jeran's earliest memory is fear and pain. His family was enslaved by a demon house for an imagined infraction; his parents were both skilled performers, but their talents for music and dance didn't extend to political savvy, and when they performed a certain piece in front of the wrong demon lord, the consequences were severe. Jeran's father died mere weeks later, thrust into the house's gladiatorial arena with neither the training nor the temperament to defend himself.

Jeran's mother lived longer: three years that no doubt seemed an eternity to her; the less said about that the better. Jeran's younger brother Ales was trained as a house slave, his slight form only useful for small tasks such as washing dishes and folding linens, at least until his innate abilities at sorcery manifested themselves. The lord of the demon house lost no time in brainwashing the small boy and cultivating him into a valuable servant. Ales took to his duties with undisguised relish; no doubt he enjoyed the sudden change from powerless and unvalued to powerful and respected.

Jeran watched his brother's corruption, unable to intervene; his place was in the house guard, training sunup to sundown with sword and body. Finally he could stand it no longer; he killed his sergeant with his bare hands, stole his sword, and tried to assassinate his own brother--an act of mercy, in his own mind. He failed, Ales' own magic turning aside Jeran's blade and blasting him senseless in the bargain. When he awoke he was in the gladiatorial pens, bruised and burned but alive, and unlike his father he had both skill and temperament. He won, time after time, against one and two and four opponents, cold rage fueling him to spend hour after hour learning to make his sword an extension of his body and will. Finally his chance came and he escaped, leaving a trail of dead and mutilated overseers to the compound gates.

Today Jeran is a skilled swordsman and killer; he sometimes feels he is only truly alive in combat, with sharp edges all around and his blood up. Sometimes he even feels bad about that. He shows no mercy to demons and their allies, and only little to others, although he does show unexpected mercy on occasion. Jeran has no true long-term goals; for the moment he drifts from place to place, but that same cold rage burns in him, waiting for something or someone to give it a target and turn Jeran from a simple hired sword into something much, much more dangerous.

As far as alignment, I'm thinking NE but willing to work with pretty much any other alignment.


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## Nephtys (Aug 21, 2007)

I'm finally able to get online again (it's only been two days but feels like forever) and I'm ready to make my selection. Please post your characters in the Rogues Gallery and we'll get the game started as soon as possible.
(Alternates, please post your characters only after the chosen characters have all been posted).

Trollbabe:
Character: Aeryk Voss
Class: Ranger 5 / Assassin 8
Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral Evil

Autumn: 
Ysande Zalarrhim
Human Female Bard 13
Chaotic Good

Jemal:
Sir Windwalker (William of Kalesh)
Human Monk/Paladin/Greyguard 
Lawful Good

Gli'jar:
Character: Canthan
Class: Conjurer 5/ Alienist 8
Race: Human
Alignment: Neutral Evil

Warlocklord:
Mystic, the Nameless One
Human Archivist 11/Contemplative1/Alienist 1
Alignment True Neutral

And Finally...

Bloosquig: (Random chance would have made you an alternate, but your character and his background really appealed to me so you pulled trough by sheer coolness )
Big Ironmaul
Half Giant Psychic Warrior 12
Alignment: Neutral

--

Everyone else, I'm sorry. There were some hard choices, but I think this is probably the best 6 person party I could have made of the finished concepts I had. Still, some good characters were left out . It is possible, though, that once I've got used to DMing and if the game flows nicely that I can bring in some of the alternates even if the original players are still in the game. I can't promise anything, we'll just have to see.


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## Jemal (Aug 21, 2007)

Thank you for the opportunity, Neph!  I've been wanting to play William for a while, and have only been able to do so at lower level (Before he becomes a grayguard).  I R happy.

I do have one question that got lost in amongst other posts, however : 
Can I take Deflect Arrows and use my quarterstaff to deflect?  It seems fitting, but RAW you need "1 hand free", and quarterstaff is a 2-handed weapon.


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## Nephtys (Aug 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Thank you for the opportunity, Neph!  I've been wanting to play William for a while, and have only been able to do so at lower level (Before he becomes a grayguard).  I R happy.
> 
> I do have one question that got lost in amongst other posts, however :
> Can I take Deflect Arrows and use my quarterstaff to deflect?  It seems fitting, but RAW you need "1 hand free", and quarterstaff is a 2-handed weapon.




You're welcome . And I don't see why not, it doesn't seen unbalancing to me, so yes you can.


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## Jemal (Aug 21, 2007)

Cool. thnx.  
So when we starting?


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## Nephtys (Aug 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Cool. thnx.
> So when we starting?




Oh, maybe the day after tomorrow. I still have some planning to do and I don't really know in what kind of situation to place you.
 A political campaign would be nice, but hard to do with none of us really knowing the world and its inhabitants yet. Dungeoncrawls are too simple (and we've all already played dozens of them), but are a good way of getting to know eachothers and parts of the world with fewer distractions. Assassinations, fetch-and-carries, choices, choices... The game will probably involve many different elements. I'm leaning towards an open-ended campaign where the players decide where to go, but I still need to give you options. 
You're a good DM, have any tips for me?


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## Nephtys (Aug 21, 2007)

double post...


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## Bloosquig (Aug 21, 2007)

Awesome thanks for the vote of confidence Nephtys.    

I have a couple quick mechanical questions that I'm hoping you can answer so they don't crop up later.

When rounding a Str bonus for a 2 hander or for using a secondary attack do you round up or down?  I believe I saw it as down somewhere so that's what I did on my stat block.

Are Big's natural attacks counted as medium or large?  He's technically medium but most of his stuff counts as large and I'm wondering how you want to rule it.  (stat block assumes the worst and counts his stuff as medium)

And finally if doing a _dimension slide_ as a move action can I still draw a weapon as part of that move action?

Anyway I'm really looking forward to playing this looks like it'll be a great world with some interesting characters.


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## Jemal (Aug 22, 2007)

My biggest suggestion is start off with something big that'll grab the players attention and keep it (I usually start campaigns off with either a battle or some sort of tense scene).

A dungeon-crawl (maybe a short one), while considered cliche, would be a good way of the PC's getting to know what they can expect out of each other and for us to get to know how our OWN characters handle (As well as giving YOU a look at how we play) before we have to deal with any major NPC's.

The real problem you have with this campaign is HOW and WHY these PC's are together, which we should be figuring out right now (Or rather, should have allready figured out)...


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## Bloosquig (Aug 22, 2007)

So we got Big the neutral ex-gladiator type looking for a cause and a job.

We've got a REALLY alien loving guy and a SLIGHTLY alien loving guy lol.   

A good bard debutante with her evil henchman.

A "I'll stick you in the eye with a fork if its for the greater good" pally type.

And an assassin out for himself.

So... we meet in a bar?


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## Gli'jar (Aug 22, 2007)

At 13th level we should be of the power where we are generally well known (at least within certain circles). A benefactor or a proxy thereof, known or unknown,  needs a job done and he requires those with our level of expertise to get it done. Easy enough for us to be placed in the drawing room of a grand manor waiting for a benefactor or in a bar, brothel, warehouse, morgue, etc. waiting. All depends on where or what avenue you choose for us to begin in.

Being 13th level we may want to offer tidbits of general information that we may know about each other, the bard of course may know more about each of us than the others or in WarlockLord and myself we may know of each other due to our affinities.

I have question regarding skill points. Do i base it off my original INT with no retroactive increase from or are the increases to INT retroactive?  I have seen it both ways at times so asking now for clarification.


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## Bloosquig (Aug 22, 2007)

First off get a general idea of the area we'll be adventuring in.  Just a day or three travel around the main town area should be a good start.  Also you can make travel visas or something necessary to keep us high level fools from just warping and bouncing all around the world before you've had a chance to flesh it out.    

Throw a couple area's of interest in there (towns, battle sites, haunted forests, undead farming plantations what have you) that you can flesh out later.  I read in a campaign building guide somewhere that you should always have a secret for just about every noun in your world lol.      Not necessarily a huge secret but something to be found out or expanded on later. 

Build up a very basic idea of who's in charge of what.  

Now for a slightly more serious idea then, "you bump into each other at an inn" you could do something like this...

Ysande (bard) has been noticed in her rise through the courts and been trapped by a wily rival into a quest to clear out some problems with some nearby problems the standard militia have had issues with.  Using her knowledge and contacts she gathers the rest of us and we go do some basic quest type stuff to help mesh play styles and then you can go from there.  That's just a rough idea I'm really ready for anything though.

By the by I'm assuming that despite the vicious backstabbing normal in the campaign world and the general "do what you need to stay alive" we're gonna be friendly and not back stabby within the party?  I can play that way if I have to but I prefer to not have to worry about it.


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## Nephtys (Aug 22, 2007)

Bloosquig said:
			
		

> Awesome thanks for the vote of confidence Nephtys.
> 
> I have a couple quick mechanical questions that I'm hoping you can answer so they don't crop up later.
> 
> ...




Rounding down sounds right. The size rules for the half-giant are a bit confusing but I think you can count his natural attacks as large. A dimension slide, even if augmented to take a move action still counts as manifesting a power. You can't, afaik, draw a weapon while spellcasting or manifesting.

-
Gli'jar, Intelligence bonuses to skillpoints are not retroacive and also can't be gained from equipment afaik. However, you still get the skillpoints from intelligence increases from levels or tomes but only in the levels after you've gained them (or same level in the case of level bonuses).



			
				advice said:
			
		

> xxx




I've had some of those thougts, but thanks for the good advice.

---

The Fallen World Map:

http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/ecaf99/wm2.jpg?t=1187781786

(Is there any way to show the picture(s) directly in the thread without requiring you to click on the link?)


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## Trollbabe (Aug 22, 2007)

Working on my stating out my character any suggestions for languages? I need to choose four and have this so far:

1. Common
2. Abyssal
3. --
4. --


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## Jemal (Aug 22, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Rounding down sounds right. The size rules for the half-giant are a bit confusing but I think you can count his natural attacks as large. A dimension slide, even if augmented to take a move action still counts as manifesting a power. You can't, afaik, draw a weapon while spellcasting or manifesting.



in D&D, you ALWAYS Round down unless specifically told not to.  As for the weapon-drawing, it's not that you can draw a weapon as part of taking a move-action, it's "If you have a +1 or better BAB, you can draw a weapon as a free action combined with a 'regular move'." (PHB pg 142)



> The Fallen World Map:
> 
> http://i225.photobucket.com/albums/dd259/ecaf99/wm2.jpg?t=1187781786
> 
> (Is there any way to show the picture(s) directly in the thread without requiring you to click on the link?)




Yep, replace url with img in the tags, like THIS:


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## cheshire_grin (Aug 23, 2007)

Hey Neph, quick question from one of the lowly alts. 

I noticed you said (on page 3), about HP, "roll dice or at least half, full at 1st level". Does this mean either we should roll for each level 2-13, OR take half-max for all levels 2-13, or does it mean "roll for each level, and if you get less than half max, take half max"?

Also, quick question -- is getting a blade enchanted with Bane (Evil Outsiders) going to be a problem?  If it is I can pick something else no problem, it just seemed apropos for my character (and wicked useful!).

Just as a curio, I've got the current build here; I'll obviously post my alt in the Rogues' Gallery once all the mains are in, using the same format Jemal and Autumn have so thoughtfully demonstrated.


Edit: Autumn, I also noticed you posted the price of your masterwork cold iron daggers as 608 each, which AFAIK is incorrect. According to the example in the DMG, you double the cost _then_ add 300 for masterwork, making a MW CI dagger 308gp instead--thought I might be able to save you 600gp. Unless I'm totally wrong and/or missed an errata (it does happen!).  The page # is DMG 284--the example given is a +2 cold iron longsword.


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## Jemal (Aug 23, 2007)

cheshire_grin said:
			
		

> Also, quick question -- is getting a blade enchanted with Bane (Evil Outsiders) going to be a problem?  If it is I can pick something else no problem, it just seemed apropos for my character (and wicked useful!).



You could always say it was a hand-me-down or something you found during your adventures.



> Just as a curio, I've got the current build here; I'll obviously post my alt in the Rogues' Gallery once all the mains are in, using the same format Jemal and Autumn have so thoughtfully demonstrated.



I'm famous!!



> Edit: Autumn, I also noticed you posted the price of your masterwork cold iron daggers as 608 each, which AFAIK is incorrect. According to the example in the DMG, you double the cost _then_ add 300 for masterwork, making a MW CI dagger 308gp instead--thought I might be able to save you 600gp. Unless I'm totally wrong (it does happen!).



Not wrong in this case.


			
				DMG Page 284 said:
			
		

> "Weapons made of cold iron cost twice as much to make as their normal counterparts.  Also, any magical enhancements cost an additional 2,000 GP.  For example, a +2 longsword made of cold iron would cost 10,330 gp, because the *price doubles for the longsword itself (15 gp to 30 gp)*, the +2 enhancement bonus costs 8,000, and enhancing cold iron costs an additional 2,000 gp.  (The price includes 300 gp for the masterwork component.)"


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## cheshire_grin (Aug 23, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> You could always say it was a hand-me-down or something you found during your adventures.



I could, but my character bio currently says otherwise, so I'd need to change it. 

Thanks for the confirmation on the dagger... I was afraid I'd underpaid. Wouldn't want that.


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## WarlockLord (Aug 23, 2007)

How about the domain spells I picked?

Thanks for picking me.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 23, 2007)

WarlockLord said:
			
		

> How about the domain spells I picked?




Looks like there will be some overlap with our spells. My focus will primarily be conjuration and transmutation and I have to run a load of spells by Nephtys as well.

How do I make the sblocks/spoilers but rather than it say sblock or spoiler  it would say Canthan?


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## Jemal (Aug 23, 2007)

Gli'jar said:
			
		

> Looks like there will be some overlap with our spells. My focus will primarily be conjuration and transmutation and I have to run a load of spells by Nephtys as well.
> 
> How do I make the sblocks/spoilers but rather than it say sblock or spoiler  it would say Canthan?




[sblock=Insert Title Here] instead of just [sblock]


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## Autumn (Aug 23, 2007)

Ah, thanks for picking me up on the price of those daggers, that's good to know. 

  I'm psyched to get underway. I really don't mind too much whether we're thrown in at the deep end of intrigue or deadly combat, or whether we're eased in with some lighter stuff first. Either way works for me.


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## Nephtys (Aug 23, 2007)

Trollbabe said:
			
		

> Working on my stating out my character any suggestions for languages? I need to choose four and have this so far:
> 
> 1. Common
> 2. Abyssal
> ...




Well, you can get by pretty well with those languages, but Goblin is also pretty widely spoken, Orcish too and people who like to brag with their education often speak Elvish or some of the more obscure tongues. Infernal and Celestial should not be spoken where anyone can hear it, though most intelligent demons are conversant in those tongues and like to use them for cursing.



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> Yep, replace url with img in the tags, like THIS:




Thanks. 



			
				cheshire_grin said:
			
		

> Hey Neph, quick question from one of the lowly alts.
> 
> I noticed you said (on page 3), about HP, "roll dice or at least half, full at 1st level". Does this mean either we should roll for each level 2-13, OR take half-max for all levels 2-13, or does it mean "roll for each level, and if you get less than half max, take half max"?
> 
> ...




"roll for each level, and if you get less than half max, take half max"?

Yes, that's much better put, that's exactly what I meant.

The weapons enchantment is no problem at all, in fact plenty of demons like to use that enchantment as well, or even Good or Lawful weapons (since outsiders have all skills as class skills for their HDs some of them like to take ranks in Use magic Device).
When on the topic; Demons tend to use the magic items they find useful, and most magic items currently being created are intended for demonic use (though they can usually resize for your use too). Nothing in the rules prevent the intelligent demons from making use of magic- and other items, though in the monster manual they're depicted as naked animals. When this changes the challenge they pose that will be taken into account when determining their CR. 



			
				WarlockLord said:
			
		

> How about the domain spells I picked?
> 
> Thanks for picking me.




Your welcome.

Hmm. The question was, as Gli'jar posed it, wether you could use any domain spells at all since the contemplative (according to him) has no domain slots. I don't think you replied to that post so I never got your reasoning.  
What does the class say? Do you get domain slots or not? I don't know. What do the rest of you think?



			
				Gli'jar said:
			
		

> Looks like there will be some overlap with our spells. My focus will primarily be conjuration and transmutation and I have to run a load of spells by Nephtys as well.




Ysande will overlap both of you and none of you will have a problem with that, I'm sure... 



			
				Autumn said:
			
		

> Ah, thanks for picking me up on the price of those daggers, that's good to know.
> 
> I'm psyched to get underway. I really don't mind too much whether we're thrown in at the deep end of intrigue or deadly combat, or whether we're eased in with some lighter stuff first. Either way works for me.




Good, good. I'm writing the introductory post now. If I don't get writers block it should be done today.


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## Bloosquig (Aug 23, 2007)

Excellent... *evil Mr. Burn's hand rubbing...

I've been looking forward to this starting for a while now.


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## Nephtys (Aug 24, 2007)

Bloosquig said:
			
		

> Excellent... *evil Mr. Burn's hand rubbing...
> 
> I've been looking forward to this starting for a while now.




Thanks, , I hope it's a good one. 

The game has begun, set in Ijainvaa. For one reason or another you are all in the domains capital Elendarion. Some of you will meet in a bar and some of you in court. I've only written the introductions for those of you who are in the RG (and please post your chars there asap), but I'll do the rest of you tomorrow (well you know what I mean).


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## Bloosquig (Aug 24, 2007)

Did I miss the link to the rogue's gallery?


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## Gli'jar (Aug 24, 2007)

fallen world RG here

Nephtys, how do I proceed with buying additional spells? Should I use the cost as if purchasing a scroll of the general spell level?  I would like to add some spells from SC. What is your email so I can run them by you as opposed to creating a list here or would you rather I post the list here?

Canthan HP I rolled twice.The first roll I rolled 13hd forgetting to give myself max at first. Would you prefer me to take the first roll and just drop the 1st die and substitute 4hp or just take the second roll where I rolled 12hd taking into account max 1st level hd.? There is a difference of 9hp between the rolls.

After reading the intro I am left to question, are spells such as plane shift or shadow walk ok? Essentially anything that can take us to another plane?


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## Bloosquig (Aug 24, 2007)

I'm feeling thread stupid today.  First I miss the rogue gallery now I'm thinking I'm missing the actual game play thread anyone able to help me out here?   

---

Nevermind I found it.  Yay for trolling through the playing the game forums lol.


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## Nephtys (Aug 24, 2007)

Gli'jar said:
			
		

> fallen world RG here
> 
> Nephtys, how do I proceed with buying additional spells? Should I use the cost as if purchasing a scroll of the general spell level?  I would like to add some spells from SC. What is your email so I can run them by you as opposed to creating a list here or would you rather I post the list here?
> 
> ...




Buying spells: That's good. You can post the SC spells here.

HPs: Wow, the first one is terrible, even if all your 1s becone 2s. Go with the second roll.

Yes, but there's not a lot of places you can go. Only the parts of the Ethereal and Shadow planes that are paralell to the world, everything else takes epic spells or permanent portals.




			
				Bloosquig said:
			
		

> I'm feeling thread stupid today.  First I miss the rogue gallery now I'm thinking I'm missing the actual game play thread anyone able to help me out here?
> 
> ---
> 
> Nevermind I found it.  Yay for trolling through the playing the game forums lol.




It's up there on the first page, but it will probably sink a little today. Something has come up at work and I'm not sure I'll have the time to update today.


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## Autumn (Aug 24, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Well, you can get by pretty well with those languages, but Goblin is also pretty widely spoken, Orcish too and people who like to brag with their education often speak Elvish or some of the more obscure tongues. Infernal and Celestial should not be spoken where anyone can hear it, though most intelligent demons are conversant in those tongues and like to use them for cursing.




 In light of that I'll go edit Ysande's languages if that's alright.

 After that I'll get on to the IC thread.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 25, 2007)

[sblock=Canthan potential spells]

The following spells are from SC.
1st – 
Conjuration
benign transposition -- 2 willing subjects of up to large switch places, med rng, no sr no save, must be willing targets
lesser orb of acid – close ranged touch deals 1d8 acid +1d8/2 levels beyond 1st (max 5d8) no save no sr
buzzing bee –  a small but loud bee gives subject –10 penalty on move silently and hinders concentration to cast spells or maintain them  dc is equal to buzzing bee's spell dc + level of the spell being cast no save no sr, med rng, cannot be attacked but can be dispelled. Fly speed of 180' perfect and it remains near the subject inspite of darkness, invis, polymorph, cover, concealment, or any other attempt at disguise or hiding

Transmutation
Nerveskitter – casts as immediate action, close rng, subject gains +5 on init check for the encounter

2nd – 
Conjuration
baleful transposition – med rng, wil negates, sr yes 2 subject switch places of up to large size, soild object must connect targets, rope, ground bridge etc. movement is  instant no AOO
ice knife – lng range,sr yes, normal ranged attack with a +2 bonus for every 2 caster levels,  magical shard of ice deals 2d8 cold plus 2 dex (fort neg dex dmg) or 1d8 cold in 10’ radius burst (rflx 1/2)

Illusion
phantasmal assailants – close rng, wil disbelief, fort 1/2 sr yes, Nightmare creatures strike subject for 8 wis and 8 dex
dark way – creates temporary unbreakable bridge supporting 200 lbs/lvl, duration 1 rnd/lvl close rng, creates bridge of force 5 ft wide, 1 in thick, up to 20'per level in length

Evoc
rainbow beam –close rng, no save sr yes, ranged touch if hit target is dazzled for 1 min and ray deals 1d12/3 lvl of random type (max 5d12). Roll 1d8 1 fire, 2 acid, 3 elec, 4 poison, 5 cold, 6 sonic, 7 force, 8 multihued, roll twice ignore further 8

3rd
Conjuration
viper gout – you spit forth medium celestial or fiendish (pseudonatural?) vipers that attack you foes close rng, 1d4+3 summoned creatures for 1 rnd/lvl, spit 3 vipers as part std action or spit one viper as a move action, I cannot speak until i have spit forth all the snakes
acid breath – cone of acid deal 1d6/lvl (max 10d6), rng 15' rflx 1/2 sr yes

Div
Unluck – whenever any die roll is made roll two separate rolls take the worse of each roll for 1rnd/lvl close rng, will neg, sr yes 

Trans
demon dirge –  2d6 dmg/rnd for 1d6 rnds, close rng, sr yes, creature with evil and chaotic subtype 2d6 dmg , no save, also possess tanarri subtype fort save or be stunned for the duration

Evoc
Manyjaws – one set of disembodied jaws/lvl attacks enemies for 1d6 dmg auto hits, redirect jaws as a std action, med rng, sr yes, rflx 1/2 force effect, can attack separate targets or single foe 40' movement, orig at my location duration concentration up to 3 rnds
rainbow blast –120'  line beginning from my fingers, rflx 1/2 sr yes deals 5d12 damage of each energy type 1d12 for each type fire, acid, elec, cold, sonic to any creatures in line of effect

4th – 
Conj
blast of flame – 60’ cone of fire from my hands 1d6/lvl (max 10d6), rflx 1/2 sr no
Translocation Trick – you and subject switch places and appear as each other, med rng, will negates, sr yes, cannot exceed dim door or look so different that disguise self would not work 
orb of force – ranged touch 1d6/lvl (max 10d6), med rng, no save, no sr, rnged touch
Orb of cold -- ranged touch 1d6/lvl (max 15d6) and might be blinded sr no fort partial, successful save negates blindness close rng rnged touch attack

Evoc
vortex of teeth – 3d8 points of dmg due to force per rnd to all creatures in the area, med rng, 40' rad hollow cylinder20' high, 5' rad safe zone in center, no save, sr yes dur 1rnd/lvl, force effect looks like a school of transparant piranhas swimming through the air

abj
resistance greater – subject gains +3 on saving throws, duration 24 hrs

5th – 
Conj
Arc of Lightning – line of elec arc between two creatures 1d6/lvl (max 15d6) close rflx 1/2 sr no, any creatures between the two I designate take dmg too. draw arc from any corner of creatures space to other corner anything in this line is affected
vitriolic sphere – acid deals 6d6 plus possible dmg in the following 3 rnds, lng rng, 10' rad burst, rflx partial, no sr. success save 1/2 dmg fail take 6d6 for 3 rnds
phantasmal thief – create an unseen force that steals from others, 

Illus
Shadowfade – opens portal to plane of shadow, will neg, sr yes, opens 10' portal permitting me and those I designate within range (close) to pass into it. Other creatures can pass into it but must make will save

Abj
recipocal gyre – creature takes 1d12 dmg/lvl of spell affecting it (max 25d12) if fails wil then also fort save or be dazed for 1d6 rnds. wil 1/2 fort negates med rng, no sr

Evoc
fireburst greater – subjects within 15’ extending from me take 1d10/lvlfire dmg (max 15d10) rflx 1/2 sr yes
prismatic ray – ray of light blinds subject deals random effect (as prismatic spray)med rng, sr yes saving throws as prismatic spray this spell is a ray.

6th – 
Conj
fire spiders – swarm of fine fire elementals deals fire dmg in an area, 10' rad spread, close rng, 1rnd/lv. reflex 1/2 sr yes, deals 4d6 of fire dmg to a crature that starts it turn in the affected area any cold spell of 3rd or higher disperses the spiders ends the spell
acid storm – deals 1d6/lvl acid dmg (max 15d6) in a 20 radius cylinder, med rng, rflx 1/2 no sr

Trans
subvert planar essence – reduces subjects dmg red. and spell resistance med rng, 1rnd/lvl 20' rad eman. centered point in space, fort neg, sr yes, reduces sr and dr by 10
stone body – your body become living stone, 1 min/lvl, gain dr 10/adam immune to blindness, crits, ability dmg, deafness, disease, drowning, posion, stunning, all spells or effects that affect phisiology or respiration +4 str, -4 dex 1/2 speed, weightx3, transmute rock to mud slowed no save for 2d6 rnds, mud to rock heals, stone to flesh ends it

7th –
abj
ghost trap – incorporeal creatures turn corporeal, 5'/lvl emanation centered on me 1min/lvl, no save or sr

Trans
glass strike – turns subject into glass, close rng, 1hr/lvl duration fort negates sr yes

This is essentially a wish list so if the spells are good but you need me to tone down the number let me know (Eg. 4 spells per level of 1st-3rd lvl spells, 3 of 4th-5th,  2 of 6th & 7th).

I got rid of plane shift and other planar themed spells but kept dismissal on my character sheet. I figure I am not the only one who will summon beasties. Shadow fade opens a portal to plane of shadow so I felt it was ok to keep on the list.[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Aug 26, 2007)

Autumn, its ok.

Gli'jar, do any of those debilitating spells ignore SR or saves? What about their range and duration, or maximal number of damage dice? Their limitations generally need to be more specific, but if they're not obviously broken I'll allow them.


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## Nephtys (Aug 26, 2007)

Trollbabe, are you still with us? If you are that puts you in the bar-group with the paladin and the less insane of the alienists ... Heh, looks like there's one Good, Evil and Neutral in each group. I didn't really intend that from the beginning, it just happed to turn out that way. Should be an interesting mix.


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## Trollbabe (Aug 26, 2007)

I am still with you family life has been kinda of hectic also some health issues of my own...  I will post my character tonight and get something into the IC thread please do not boot me! I am very excited about this game!

-- EDIT --

Character is posted!


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## Gli'jar (Aug 26, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Gli'jar, do any of those debilitating spells ignore SR or saves? What about their range and duration, or maximal number of damage dice? Their limitations generally need to be more specific, but if they're not obviously broken I'll allow them.




I edited the list, I tried to hit all the spells to give you more info regarding them. Let me know how that works for you.

I am on travel next week for work, leaving monday returning friday and will not have net access, unless i can find a net cafe in Truckee, ca.  If i post by monday or tuesday you know i did otherwise the lack of me posting means I was unable to find a computer..


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## Nephtys (Aug 26, 2007)

Trollbabe, looks good, but I think you get a third attack with your main hand (+11/+6/+1).

Gli'jar, some of them are a bit on the strong side, but I think you can use the extra firepower. Approved. 

Now back to the game... I'll try to advance the palace-plot tomorrow.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 26, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Gli'jar, some of them are a bit on the strong side, but I think you can use the extra firepower. Approved.




Thanks. I took care of spells. I had to give up a few due to funds. I have to take care of a few domestic duties before I finish him up. Just mundane supplies to take care of, clothing, sundries, equipment, etc.


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## Jemal (Aug 27, 2007)

Hey, Neph, I've been thinking, and I'd like to to make a couple changes to my characters gear:
[sblock=Gear]
Add : Holy to my weapon (I'm a Paladin!!!).
+1 cloak of resistance (I have a +1 resistance bonus included in my saves but didn't write the cloak down under equipment. Typo on my part.)
Hat of Disguise, Hewards Handy Haversack & Wand of Cure Light Wounds. (they'd be useful)

Drop:  Gloves of Dexterity from +4 to +2 to pay for the additions.
That leaves me with 650 GP.
Is that allright?
[/sblock]


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## WarlockLord (Aug 27, 2007)

I have a lot of spare funds.  I can make loans...at a suitable rate of interest, of course.

>


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## Gli'jar (Aug 27, 2007)

Taking off for work, so I may be unavailable to post until Friday unless I can find a net cafe. Good gaming all.


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## Nephtys (Aug 27, 2007)

Jemal, that's all right. Gli'jar, you're welcome back whenever you get back.


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## Gli'jar (Aug 28, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Jemal, that's all right. Gli'jar, you're welcome back whenever you get back.




Hotel I am staying at has a central computer with net access. I should be able to check and post in the evenings.


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## Nephtys (Aug 28, 2007)

Gli'jar said:
			
		

> Hotel I am staying at has a central computer with net access. I should be able to check and post in the evenings.




Great, now I just need to give you something to react to. IC-post coming up.


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## Festy_Dog (Sep 1, 2007)

I'd like to sign up as an alternate if that's alright. Are Elan an acceptable race in your setting?


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## bedford (Sep 1, 2007)

i am interested in joining. my character would be a lycanthrope warshaper if it is ok?


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## Nephtys (Sep 2, 2007)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> I'd like to sign up as an alternate if that's alright. Are Elan an acceptable race in your setting?




Welcome Festy_Dog.

Constructs are pretty common in the setting. Most of them are the will-less servants of the Lords, their creation fueled by the souls of the dead (much like most magic items), but there are exceptions. There is no Elan community as such, though, so you would be the creation of someone. And since it's no easy thing to construct an Elan, that someone would probably be someone important. In other words, Elans are acceptable. 



			
				bedford said:
			
		

> i am interested in joining. my character would be a lycanthrope warshaper if it is ok?




It might be ok, but since the class is not in the SRD I'm going to need you to write it down for me. Lycanthropes, otoh, are fine. The more unpleasant the breed the better it would fit the feel of the setting.
And welcome to the game (as an alternate )


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## cheshire_grin (Sep 2, 2007)

Here's a question. Do we need to post in the Rogues' Gallery thread to be an alt, or just post in this thread and then post in the RG thread when we get "picked up"?


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## Festy_Dog (Sep 2, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Welcome Festy_Dog.
> 
> Constructs are pretty common in the setting. Most of them are the will-less servants of the Lords, their creation fueled by the souls of the dead (much like most magic items), but there are exceptions. There is no Elan community as such, though, so you would be the creation of someone. And since it's no easy thing to construct an Elan, that someone would probably be someone important. In other words, Elans are acceptable.




Many thanks, I'll write something up for him and see whether it sounds alright before I delve into crunch. I'm thinking pure telepath, with some feats from Complete Psionics which I'll detail for your consideration.


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## Nephtys (Sep 2, 2007)

cheshire_grin said:
			
		

> Here's a question. Do we need to post in the Rogues' Gallery thread to be an alt, or just post in this thread and then post in the RG thread when we get "picked up"?




We've got a pretty long list of alternates for you to compete with, so your chances to get picked will be better if your character is as well defined and accessable as possible. So, please post in the RG, but use an sblock to make the thread easier to scroll.


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## Shayuri (Sep 2, 2007)

Curiousity. Do those folk who submitted but weren't picked considered alts, or were alts already selected as well?


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## Nephtys (Sep 3, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Curiousity. Do those folk who submitted but weren't picked considered alts, or were alts already selected as well?




Everyone who is not currently playing is considered an alternate, but those who post their character in the RG are more likely to get picked.


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## Gli'jar (Sep 3, 2007)

Nephtys, I realised when I addressed planar spells, I removed Contact other Plane, so I added it  back in. If it would be considered epic magic for this world let me know it can be removed. I need exposure to it or commune for picking up omniscient whispers. 

I figure I can handle picking up my mundane things before we leave town and requisition some supplies in the military camp. I will use srd/players guide/dmg for pricing.


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## Nephtys (Sep 5, 2007)

You can still cast contact other plane and similar spells as usual. However the knowlege that other-planar beings have about the world is often quite limited so the spells may be of limited use for intelligence-gathering.

You can shop for non-magical items off screen, anytime you're in an environment where there are shops. That's not something that need to be rp-ed, unless you want to.


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## Gli'jar (Sep 13, 2007)

Autumn said:
			
		

> Ysande winces inwardly at Canthan's blunt approach, and her mouth quirks into the hint of an apologetic smile at William.
> 
> "Forgive my companion his tactlessness..."




Thanks for the acknowledgment of his blunt, tactless approach. I figure Canthan as a detached driven, mad man that lacks certain social graces as opposed to the raving lunatic on a mission.


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## Nephtys (Oct 3, 2007)

So,  , what do you think about the game, and the way I run it? What about the way I write? Is there anything that should be done differently, any advice you'd like to give to make it better? Even if you're all happy with the game (and I hope you are) there's always room for improvement. I'm a first-time DM and english is my second language, it can't help but show.
So, let me know what you think.


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## Jemal (Oct 18, 2007)

I think you're doing a hell of a job (Or at least you were when I dissapeared for a month... sorry bout that btw).  Speaking of which, did you replace Sir William yet or am I good to come back?


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## Nephtys (Oct 19, 2007)

Thanks. Welcome back, William is still around. It's been a pretty quiet month, but I think things are ready to pick up some speed again.


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## Nephtys (Oct 25, 2007)

Heh, guess that turned out to be a lie. Sorry about that. I have been pretty ill the past few days and have not felt inspired. I'm back now, though.


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## Trollbabe (Oct 25, 2007)

I'm having fun thus far. =)


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## Nephtys (Oct 25, 2007)

Thanks, hope you still feel that way after the last post.  (It really doesn't do you any lasting harm...)


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi, I saw this game when it was first posted but I wasn't sure I'd enjoy it considering it's terribly depressing world.  I've read some of the recent posts and I'm still not sure if I like it.  

The exploding stirges were totally awesome.  The part with Big standing there passively as a possessed girl killed herself on his axe was not really that awesome. :\ 

I'm still really interesting though.


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## Nephtys (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks Dire Lemming. This is the first game I've DMed so it's no wonder parts of it seem a bit awkward. I figured the posessed-girl-scene would be a bit like a waking dream, somewhat surreal and foreshadowy. Big did raise his axe to ward her off so I figured it would be cool if she just impaled herself on it. I felt the scene would make a greater impact if she did something shocking like that. We could have handled it in more posts, but I didn't really want two separate time-lines (that could cause some causality problems.)

Maybe I made a mistake with the stirges, making tham a bit tougher than usual and letting them drain blood on the turn they attached themselves. I didn't want the party to have another effortless victory like they had against the asassins so maybe I overdid it  . But I'm sure they will find a way to get at least most of them out of the battle alive.


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 6, 2007)

This is the first game you've _ever_ GMed?  Wow, I've tried GMing a few times and none of them went anywhere.  I don't know if I'm just not cut out for it or what... :\   I suppose I should try with a PbP game, I'd have more time to prepare ideas and whatnot.

Personally I would have been really agrivated if I were Big's player, but I can't help playing goody two shoes types, so my version of Big definitelly would have lowered his axe.  'Cutscene' posts that make a PC watch as bad, irreversible things happen always bother me.  However, I can understand your reasoning for doing it that way.

If you need ever need an alt I'd be interesded to try this... I'd probably be a sort of good character, who would try to ease the suffering of those around him.  Course he'd probably frequently get frustrated with his impotence.


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## Autumn (Nov 6, 2007)

Hi y'all. 

   Thanks so much for your patience. I'm a lot more on top of things now, and I'd love to jump back into the game. I see that you've kept Ysande and Kaj around - thanks  - and that they haven't met a grisly stirge-related death just yet. So hopefully you're happy for me to pick them back up?

 I'm working on updating my status records at the moment - just a quick questiong regarding that. The darkness that filled the corridor as the Stirges attacked - was that a use of Kaj's Darkness ability? Or some kind of trap he tripped? Also, does the place's anti-demon ward have a statistical effect on Kaj? Or just creeps him out?


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## Bloosquig (Nov 6, 2007)

Welcome back Autumn.  Course we're all about a round from becoming stirge food but still.   

And about the cut scene it was unfortunate that the girl threw herself on the axe but the scene had to end quickly otherwise it would have begun jarring with what was currently happening.  Either way some mind slave throwing herself on Big's axe sucks but doesn't particularly bother him other then the mess of cleaning it up.


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 6, 2007)

Wow, didn't realize until now.  You've actually got two good characters already. 

Of course, what I meant was that it would have bothered me if Big were my character.  Great avatar BTW.


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## Nephtys (Nov 7, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> This is the first game you've _ever_ GMed?  Wow, I've tried GMing a few times and none of them went anywhere.  I don't know if I'm just not cut out for it or what... :\   I suppose I should try with a PbP game, I'd have more time to prepare ideas and whatnot.
> 
> Personally I would have been really agrivated if I were Big's player, but I can't help playing goody two shoes types, so my version of Big definitelly would have lowered his axe.  'Cutscene' posts that make a PC watch as bad, irreversible things happen always bother me.  However, I can understand your reasoning for doing it that way.
> 
> If you need ever need an alt I'd be interesded to try this... I'd probably be a sort of good character, who would try to ease the suffering of those around him.  Course he'd probably frequently get frustrated with his impotence.




This can be a frustrating game, I guess . But pbp is probably easier to DM than live, it's also a lot easier to get into character.
You're welcome to make an alternate, just in case we need an extra character. Any character who could be fitted into Cel Candon would be apropriate as either a member of the Enclave, a prisoner, a pet, a slave or a blood sacrifice. The Elves and Duergar of this enclave are not the nicest of people, but probably a lot less evil than the demons. 



			
				Autumn said:
			
		

> Hi y'all.
> 
> Thanks so much for your patience. I'm a lot more on top of things now, and I'd love to jump back into the game. I see that you've kept Ysande and Kaj around - thanks  - and that they haven't met a grisly stirge-related death just yet. So hopefully you're happy for me to pick them back up?
> 
> I'm working on updating my status records at the moment - just a quick questiong regarding that. The darkness that filled the corridor as the Stirges attacked - was that a use of Kaj's Darkness ability? Or some kind of trap he tripped? Also, does the place's anti-demon ward have a statistical effect on Kaj? Or just creeps him out?




Hi, welcome back. Well, Kaj is in a bit of a tough spot, but Ysande is looking pretty safe. It's been fun to NPC them, but you're the only one who can do them justice. 

The Darkness effect wasn't Kaj, but if it was a trap, the work of an enemy spellcaster or a Superstirge-SLA, you're just going to have to guess. The anti-demon ward does hurt him, though he's somewhat protected from the worst effects by Mokninchel's spell, and Ysande fears thet it will get gradually worse the further down you go and the longer time you spend in Cel Candon. Right now it much like a migraine headache, fatigueing him and giving him a -1 on skill checks.




			
				Bloosquig said:
			
		

> Welcome back Autumn.  Course we're all about a round from becoming stirge food but still.
> 
> And about the cut scene it was unfortunate that the girl threw herself on the axe but the scene had to end quickly otherwise it would have begun jarring with what was currently happening.  Either way some mind slave throwing herself on Big's axe sucks but doesn't particularly bother him other then the mess of cleaning it up.





Yeah, I figured Big wouldn't really mind that much considering his background. I probably wouldn't have done that to a character like William or Ysande. But still it's not like it was Big's fault, his evil act. Even so, I guess it was frustrating that I took away your free choice.




			
				Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Wow, didn't realize until now.  You've actually got two good characters already.
> 
> Of course, what I meant was that it would have bothered me if Big were my character.  Great avatar BTW.




Two evil, two neutral and two good, it's like they had to fill some alignment-quota , but I think it's working out pretty well so far.
Oh, and thanks, But Bloosquig's is cooler .


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 7, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Yeah, I figured Big wouldn't really mind that much considering his background. I probably wouldn't have done that to a character like William or Ysande. But still it's not like it was Big's fault, his evil act. Even so, I guess it was frustrating that I took away your free choice.




Wouldn't have had the girl kill herself, or wouldn't have had her come at all? I'm just asking because it seems like her request for assistance would have been met more favorably by the good guys.  Or is that just a plot hook?  



			
				Nephtys said:
			
		

> Oh, and thanks, But Bloosquig's is cooler .




  Actually, that's who I was talking to.  Yours is cool as well though.  What is it?


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## Bloosquig (Nov 7, 2007)

Thanks for the compliments.  My son is a stud I know, he must take after me.    

I think it worked out alright with the girl because the good characters might have had a morality issue with a chick suiciding on their weapons.  Or maybe not considering the world    At least Big just had to worry about whether he could fit her down the nearest toilet or he'd have to bust out the wolf jaws and eat her.


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 7, 2007)

Eh, *I* would have had a morality issue with that.  I don't think I could play an evil character.  Or for that matter a neutral character in a world like this one.


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## Autumn (Nov 7, 2007)

I'm definitely happy with your DMing Nephtys. Lots of atmosphere, and I can feel that you're putting the effort in. It feels like a fully-realised world we have to play around in, and that illusion is a lovely thing to have, as a player. 

 As for unpleasantness like the axe incident - I'm cool with it. I appreciate that some people don't like to explore such themes in their play, and I can see the sense in that. But it's not how I feel, myself. I can enjoy exploring horrid themes in my games just as I can enjoy them being explored in film, books etc. 

 That was one of the things that drew me to this game in the first place, so please Nephtys don't feel like you have to go easy on me just because I made a good character. 

  For the record, that incident would have been unpleasant for Ysande, yes. But she's used to unpleasantness. I mean, having written into her background that she's spent most of her life as, among other things, a concubine to a slew of demons (and no, that's not just the pretty ones...  ), you can't really think I'll be averse to her taking some punishment. 

 In short, what I'm saying is that my making a good character wasn't intended as an opt-out from the nastiness of the world. Not at all. On the contrary, what I wanted was to play a character who is desperately trying to hold on to some shred of humanity and compassion in a world where those things are headed for extinction. And I wouldn't be at all surprised if she fails - she might well end up neutral or evil, depending on where things lead.


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## Dire Lemming (Nov 7, 2007)

Yeah, I wasn't trying to convince you to change anything, definitely.  I just wanted to warn you, that if I ever got to play in your game, being forced into something like that would have bothered me.  If she had attempted to kill herself in front of my character, he would have tried very hard to stop her, so I would have felt the GM forced me to act out of character.  So you know, consider whether or not you're ok with that if you're ever thinking about having me as a player. 

Also, I too am impressed with the detail in your world.  I'm somewhat obsessed with detail.


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## Bloosquig (Nov 7, 2007)

I appreciate the details too they help us all stay in character and understand the basic nitty gritty of the world.

In a normal face to face game the night scene might have played out differently but I understand the limitations of playing by post.  Just going "Hey wait I jerk my axe out of the way and keep her from suiciding" would probably have kept the night scene going for another month with me and Neph going back and forth trying to untangle that along with the normal game going on.  Best to just use some DM fiat and trudge onward towards pointy proboscis death.   

---

Oh yeah and Autumn, come to the neutral side.  We have cookies.


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## Gli'jar (Nov 8, 2007)

Bloosquig said:
			
		

> Oh yeah and Autumn, come to the neutral side.  We have cookies.




Evil has cookies _and_ milk. Never you mind that evil will make the cookie very dry and also inflict you with lactose intolerance at the very moment you partake of the milk. 

The game has been fun. We, as characters, have yet to trust eachother and I think that shows. We work together but you don't see one of us jumping to the aid of another, or offering up all of our information,  rather we keep things close. In a world of evil and with characters that have learned to survive in such a world I think this is rather good role playing.


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## Nephtys (Nov 8, 2007)

Thank you for your praise, . That you write these things even while you're under the threat of imminent death, well, it's heartwarming...  
But seriously, I enjoy this game too. Because of you. And I'm actually a bit worried for your sake, I really hope you find a way to win this battle, (there is a way, but I can't tell you, because that would be cheating.)


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## Gli'jar (Nov 8, 2007)

Depending on how things go this next round with the stirges, I have two (currentlly, without being cheap) plans. 1. Seal off the crack using wall of stone and then cast an AOE spell to fry stuff, 2. Cast an AOE spell and fry stuff.  Is there any way to avoid team-mates using either a cone or radius blast effect while killing off all or most of the stirges?


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## Bloosquig (Nov 8, 2007)

Hmm I'm a lot more concerned about the con damage then taking a little hp damage from friendly aoe.  Big at least has various self healing means at his disposal and though I don't have the spell lists handy at the moment it seemed the party had some decent healing in reserve.

A good question though is are more stirges coming up from the crack?  I thought the whole swarm was already attacking.  If there are more coming then we'll be in deep trouble real fast.   :\


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## Autumn (Nov 8, 2007)

Decent healing yes, but bear in mind that when characters are heavily con-drained it's not hard to one-shot them with AoE. Kaj for instance has 18 hp right now despite not having taken any hit point damage... though he at least has Evasion to potentially help him out. Though maybe if he avoids the blast through evasion, so do any Stirges still stuck on him.


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## Bloosquig (Nov 8, 2007)

Good point.  We just need a really big can of Raid I guess.


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## Nephtys (Nov 8, 2007)

It looks like Kaj took care of most of the Stirges in the crack with his Unholy Blight so the biggest problem are the stirges already attached and those swarming around looking for a good place to land.
A fireball could kill Kaj or William, but Kaj would have to be pretty unlucky considering his fire-resistance (he'd have to take 33 HPs of damage to get to -10 HPs). If you wait with the blasting until next round a lot you will have very few HPs left.


----------



## Jemal (Nov 8, 2007)

ARGH! I apologize again, guys, after my last posts about 2 weeks ago I headed back out to work and once I arrived realized that we weren't connected.  I've finally managed to gain net access again, so I'll be trying (Once more) to catch up on everything.  

I'll try tonight to save William's butt.


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## Nephtys (Nov 27, 2007)

I have a hard time setting the challenge-level for the stirge-encounter (since I used a  homebrewed Stirge, and I never exactly specified how many there were  ), so I'm asking you how hard do you think it was?
It could easily have been a tpk, or it could have been like shooting fish in a barrel (with fireballs), all depending on a few lucky rolls of the die. They were frail, but all together they could do a lot of damage.
So, eh, how much XP do you think you deserve?


----------



## Dire Lemming (Dec 25, 2007)

Ahah, found it!  I look forward towards making the world a bit less craptacular!

Now I have to tell you that I'm rather slow at making higher level characters, *especially* where Equipment is involved.  So any assistance anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.  I've got to refresh myself on the setting before I can do much, but for now, how about a tentative suggestion of an Elven Spirit Shaman?  I don't know how those fit into the setting, though with their innate raise dead ability and stuff...  I don't know allot of the classes the other characters are, so maybe someone could give me an idea of the basic archetypes?

It's also be interesting to try playing an outsider.  I'm a big Planescape fan see.


----------



## Jemal (Dec 25, 2007)

*A month late, but nevertheless*
An encounter that had equal chances of being nothing and TPKing, and in reality forced a nights rest.. I'd say the XP on this HAS to be ad-hoc.  As you said, Fireball makes it easy if it works, so a single 6th lvl mage COULD have beat it.  On the other hand, a Higher level party could've been dropped by this just as easily as us.  
Therefore, I would've just said whenever something like THAT happens, instead of trying to place a specific CR on the creature/encounter, give it XP equivalent to that of defeating an equal level (or 1/2 higher) Challenge.


----------



## Nephtys (Dec 26, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Ahah, found it!  I look forward towards making the world a bit less craptacular!
> 
> Now I have to tell you that I'm rather slow at making higher level characters, *especially* where Equipment is involved.  So any assistance anyone can give would be greatly appreciated.  I've got to refresh myself on the setting before I can do much, but for now, how about a tentative suggestion of an Elven Spirit Shaman?  I don't know how those fit into the setting, though with their innate raise dead ability and stuff...  I don't know allot of the classes the other characters are, so maybe someone could give me an idea of the basic archetypes?
> 
> It's also be interesting to try playing an outsider.  I'm a big Planescape fan see.




Raise Dead is a bit problematic in this setting, since all souls go directly to the Demonlords at death and they are not likely to release them to anyone but their slaves and most valued and trusted servants (and demons seldom value or trust anyone). Very few people return from death that way, and noone does it entirely unchanged. In order to raise someone from the dead without going trough the demonlords you pretty much have to do it in the same round and the same initiative as the subject dies (by a readied action or plain luck). Undeath is fairly common, but most undead-to-be souls pass trough and are tainted by the hands of the demonlords. Of course, there are many undead who are far older than the demonic rule of the world, and they are not that different from the norm.

Outsiders would probably have to be some sort of demon, or demonspawn. All other outsiders would likely be attacked at sight be any powerful demons they encounter (even non-opposed outsiders like elementals and such). The demons consider the world their posession, they have to acccept the existance of mortals because they need their souls for sustenance and power, but any outsider would be regarded as a threat to their whole world-disorder. A demonic character would have some unique problems of their own, and will be unable to enter certain areas ("enclaves" and other areas with unusual magical raditation) and be greatly weakened in others.

The game is set in the planescape multiverse, but with all planestravel cut off for millennia that's of little practical relevance to the game.




			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> *A month late, but nevertheless*
> An encounter that had equal chances of being nothing and TPKing, and in reality forced a nights rest.. I'd say the XP on this HAS to be ad-hoc.  As you said, Fireball makes it easy if it works, so a single 6th lvl mage COULD have beat it.  On the other hand, a Higher level party could've been dropped by this just as easily as us.
> Therefore, I would've just said whenever something like THAT happens, instead of trying to place a specific CR on the creature/encounter, give it XP equivalent to that of defeating an equal level (or 1/2 higher) Challenge.




Good point. Thanks.


----------



## Dire Lemming (Dec 26, 2007)

Actually, the Spirit Shaman's Recall Spirit ability is a once per week Spell-Like Ability that can raise dead without level loss, but must be used within one round of death.  So no problem there.  It's a bit like magic CPR that works on all conventional wounds.


----------



## Nephtys (Dec 27, 2007)

[sblock=Dire Lemming]
That could work, and there are plenty of other spirits in the world (Though many have been eaten by demons).
If you want to play relatively soon we can introduce your character in Cel-Candon, though we should keep it secret from the other players. We can even play a brief solo-game in sblocks on this page until you meet the others, if you want. When, and if, your character and the party meet you should write your posts as sblocks here and I will post them in the IC-thread, that makes the party's reaction to you more natural than if they know you are a new PC. [/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 27, 2007)

[sblock=Nephtys] I'd love to come in in Cel-Candon.  I don't think I could finish my character quickly enough though...  I have allot of trouble creating characters above first level.  Especially their equipment lists.  If you don't have the spirit shaman class info you can find it on Crystal Keep.  If you do, I could use any help you can give in making my character faster.

Also, can my character get things from the book of exalted deeds?  Seems appropriate for an enemy of a demon ruled empire.

Uh, what's a good age for a 13th level elf?  I thought they were supposed to live for about 1000 years but I just realized when I looked it up that it's less than half of that.[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Dec 27, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> [sblock=Nephtys] I'd love to come in in Cel-Candon.  I don't think I could finish my character quickly enough though...  I have allot of trouble creating characters above first level.  Especially their equipment lists.  If you don't have the spirit shaman class info you can find it on Crystal Keep.  If you do, I could use any help you can give in making my character faster.
> 
> Also, can my character get things from the book of exalted deeds?  Seems appropriate for an enemy of a demon ruled empire.
> 
> Uh, what's a good age for a 13th level elf?  I thought they were supposed to live for about 1000 years but I just realized when I looked it up that it's less than half of that.[/sblock]



[sblock=Dire Lemming]
Do you have any specific questions about creating the character? If you go with just one class it should be pretty simple, but it's harder for you if you want to use a lot of feats and items from different sources. I usually rely mostly on the SRD when I create my characters, it's just more convenient to have everything in one place.

Some things from the BED could be ok, but nothing that's too extreme. If your character is too fanatically Good and unwilling to make any compromises with the "real world" (that is dark and ruled by evil and cruelty) he's not likely to survive for long outside Cel Candon. There are two good-aligned characters in the party so being good is not necessarily a problem, but being exalted can be.

Your age can be anything, it depends what ability-penalties and -bonuses you want. A venerable elf can be a very powerful spellcaster, but most would probably feel that the physical weakness was too great a trade-off. It's up to you. Really, you're not likely to die of old age within the span of the game anyway [/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 27, 2007)

[sblock=Nephtys]I guess he'll be 140.  That seems reasonable while still keeping within the young range.  It's not like he'll survive for a whole year anyway if the game even lasts that long.  

I haven't really read the BoED that much.  I just think this one feat that allows you to make your spells and stuff deal nonlethal damage would work well for a character who has figured that if the demons need mortal souls then killing people is just helping the demons.  Do I need to be fanatically good to use feats like that? (isn't "fanatically good" kind of an oxymoron too?)

I'm not really sure what you can do to help me specifically.   I'm just very slow at creating characters compared to other people.  I have ADD, and I think that may have allot to do with it.  I do other not particularly fun things really slowly as well. 

Also, how should I determine HP and Ability Scores?[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Dec 27, 2007)

Hps and ability scores, as well as some other information, is in the ooc thread, but it's hidden well so I'll dig it up for you.



> 13th level, standard wealth, SRD 3,5 (if you want to use other sources you'll have to show me the rules).
> ...
> 32 point-buy,  HPs roll dice or at least half (if you roll less than half of your maximum total hitpoints you get you get half rounded up), full at lvl1.




[sblock=DL]The feat sounds ok, I'll even remove the exalted prerequisite to give your character some more flexibility.[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 27, 2007)

[sblock=Nephtys]I looked it up and it's actually metamagic, so I don't need to be exalted to use it, but thanks for the thought.  

Here's a description of Some Feats I'm interested in.

Purify Spell [Metamagic]
Prerequisite:  Any good alignment
Any spell modified with this feat gains the good descriptor.  If the spell does damage, neutral creatures take half damage, or one fourth if their save against the spell succeeds.  Good creatures take no damage.  Evil Outsiders take extra damage.  The spell's damage is increased by one die type as per increased damage based on weapon size. (e.g. 1d6 increases to 1d8, 1d8 to 2d6, etc.) It uses up a spell slot one level higher.


Nonlethal Substitution [Metamagic]
Prerequisite:  Any other metamagic Feat, Knowledge arcana 5 ranks
Basically it allows you to make damaging spells deal non-lethal damage.  It doesn't increase the spell slot level.

There's an odd bit at the beginning that says to chose one type of energy and then you can modify a spell using that type of energy to deal nonlethal damage instead of energy damage.  I'm not sure what that means though.  It kind of sounds like you need to chose it when you choose the feat, but the wording is anything but clear.

You can probably find both of those feats on Crystal Keep.

Here's my HP.  It's less than Ysande. :\   http://invisiblecastle.com/roller/view/1446057/

So um... I'm trying to come up with a background for my character besides, "Good Elven Spirit Shaman in Cel Candon that doesn't like the demonic rulers of the world and figures that one way to weaken them is to deprive them of souls by avoiding killing people."  But I don't really know much of anything about the elves or Cel Candon[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 28, 2007)

[sblock=Nephtys] Hey, could I have Caduceus, the intelligent staff of healing?  Actually, I don't know how much money I get at this level.  Guess I ought to check.

Ok, here's my character sheet so far.  Also, Caduceus is about 32,000 gp.

Name: 
Race: Elf
Gender: Male
Age:  137
Alignment: NG
Class: Spirit Shaman 13

Str: 10
Dex: 12 (+1)
Con: 10
Int: 14 (+2)  level 4 increase
Wis: 19 (+4) level 8 & 12 increase
Cha: 14 (+2)

HP: 62
Speed: 30 ft
BAB: +9/+4
AC: 
Initiative: +1

Fort: +8 (Base +8)
Ref: +5 (Base +4, Dex +1)
Will: +12 (Base +8, Wis +4)

Attacks:

Skills:
Concentration +16
Craft (Drawing) +18 (16 ranks, Int +2)
Diplomacy +18 (16 ranks, Cha +2)
Heal +23 (16 ranks, Wis+4, Misc+3)
Knowledge (Arcana) +10 (8 ranks, Int +2)
Listen +15 (9 ranks, Wis +4, Mist +2)
Search +4 (Int +2, Misc +2)
Spot +15 (9 ranks, Wis +4, Misc +2)

Feats:
Purify Spell
Combat Casting
Nonlethal Substitution.
Silent Spell
Skill Focus: Heal

Languages:
Common
Elven
Abyssal

Equipment:
110,000 gp
[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Jan 1, 2008)

Happy new year! 

[sblock=Dire Lemming]
It all looks good to me (though I admit I haven't been over the math with a microscope). The feats are good, the staff is ok (if it's "incessant chatting" is kept to a reasonable level) and I can help you a bit with the background.

One thing worth remembering is that the party currently is working for the local demonlord on a mission that is likely to cause the destruction of Cel-Candon (your new home). Your character doesn't know this, but it's a pretty reasonable assumption to make. And it's not at all certain that you will be able to disuade the party from its quest, since they all have their own reasons to be loyal to their current mistress. If you cannot change their actions and will not surrender your home you may even be forced to a confrontation with them. I don't mind that at all, and I'll make sure that you'll be able to pose a threat to them if you act wisely. You'll be eachothers NPCs, so to speak, and that could be a lot of fun. But that's not set in stone, it's up to your RP-ing how you handle the situation.

Cel-Candon is one of the last remnants of an ancient and powerful elven civilisation (the information the party learned before entering is well known to you). Your people, highly cultured, a bit decadent, ancient, wise, formerly mighty and adamantly arrogant, have long ago lost their innocense. They have done great deeds, won heroic victories in just wars, healed the world from the edge of universal death to a lush paradise (that has now been despoiled), been the leaders of magic, science and biologic engineering for most of the worlds recorded history. But none of that has come without a price. Long before the demons invaded the scene your people's main source of power was the consumtion of souls and life energy for spellcasting, magic item production and especially epic spells. Since soul-energy was always by far the most cost-efficient source of usable XP your ancestors simply had no choice but to use it or face extinction from foreign elves, humans or other civilised races who also developed similar forms of magic. But none of them were as skilled as your people. Even as your ancestors exterminated all but the faintest of traces of the lesser humanoids on the western continent they still justified their actions by their innate moral superiority and their gods-given destiny of greatness. They were not Good, by any other standards than their own. But they never really cared what others thought of them.

The demonic invasion changed much. The elven civilisation of Cel Candon was already in decline and fell at horrifying speed to the chocking display of awesome demonic power. The elves fought back fiercely, and enjoyed a handful of victories, but were soon washed away by the tide. Only in Cel Candon, the fortress-capital of their continental empire and a handful of other enclaves (protected from direct demonic attack by a strange magical radiation that prevented the entrance of extra-planars) did the elves hold out for a time before most of them too fell to the demons slaves and allies. Cel-Candon became a ruin, haunted by ghosts and shadows, hiding great treasures that few knew still existed.

Recently the people of an elven enclave, under the leadership of the epic, legendary and mysterious arcane spellcaster The Queen of Autumn allied themselves with a tribe of Duergar who were rumoured to posess an artifact that could ward against the undead. Trough impressive diplomacy and common enemies the two peoples joined together and transported themselves to Cel Candon. In a brilliant, lightning quick strike the Queen of Autumn and her elite cadre defeated the two liches Yangava had made the guardians of her Cel-Candon. While battle raged in the heart of the underground fortress around them the dwarven arch-clerics began their ritual to activate the artifact to drive the undead away. For every passing second the defenders seemed to become stronger and the attacking mortals dropped like flies and rose again against their allies. Only a few hundred remained when the clerics completed their ritual and conquered the city. Ever since then they have been maintaining the ritual to keep the artifact at work in the heart of the fortress as their minions and distrusted allies search for the treasures that brought them there.[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 1, 2008)

Happy new year to you to.
[sblock=Nephtys]Alright.  Hey, I just realized I've got one more language I can learn.  I guess it'll be undercommon.

So, I figure he has issues with his ancestor's soul sucking thing, since it so closely resembles what the demons are doing to the humans.  He's looked at it from the outside, and realized that the only thing that makes them any better is the fact that they didn't automatically take the souls of all that died in the entire world.  Which means pretty much nothing.  So he's lost a bit of his arrogance and bigotry because of that.

I'm not sure how a spirit shaman fits into this, but I suppose it's got something to do with distaste for the ancestral methods, or something.  How do you think he'd be able to become a Spirit Shaman?[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Jan 3, 2008)

[sblock=DL]Well, Spirit Shamanism is pretty close to Soul-magic, and being an elf he has a natural connection to nature. I don't really see a problem.[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 3, 2008)

[sblock=Nephtys]Ok, that's good to know, but I was actually looking for more ideas for his background.  [/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 9, 2008)

[sblock=Nephtys]  So, are Spirit Shaman's well known in this place?  I mean, would he be shunned?  Or would he be viewed as special somehow?  Or what?  Would he just be accepted as normal?  I mean, he has the ability to use raise dead as a spell like ability within a round of death.  Would it make sense for him to have a mentor or an apprentice?  I can come up with some ideas, but I want them to fit.

I'd figure that Caduceus is some sort of family heirloom or something, so he/she/it could rant about how great my characters ancestors were or something. Or maybe complain.  [/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Jan 9, 2008)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> [sblock=Nephtys]  So, are Spirit Shaman's well known in this place?  I mean, would he be shunned?  Or would he be viewed as special somehow?  Or what?  Would he just be accepted as normal?  I mean, he has the ability to use raise dead as a spell like ability within a round of death.  Would it make sense for him to have a mentor or an apprentice?  I can come up with some ideas, but I want them to fit.
> 
> I'd figure that Caduceus is some sort of family heirloom or something, so he/she/it could rant about how great my characters ancestors were or something. Or maybe complain.  [/sblock]




[sblock=DL]No, he would be viewed as pretty normal, a good person to have around. And even if he wasn't the elves have had to make a lot of compromises (to the point of working with Duergar) to survive in a hostile world. The ability to raise dead would be greatly valued, but it's not unique for the class, and won't be a problem in the game. Your character could very well have a mentor, or an apprentice, that wouldn't be unusual at all.[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 9, 2008)

[sblock=Nephtys]Ugh, I'm trying to find some sort of spark of inspiration for my background, but it's hiding quite well.  I usually enjoy that allot more than buying equipment.

Damn, I have no idea what to spend all this gold on either.  Some wands I guess...  I hate making high level characters.   [/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Jan 9, 2008)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> [sblock=Nephtys]Ugh, I'm trying to find some sort of spark of inspiration for my background, but it's hiding quite well.  I usually enjoy that allot more than buying equipment.
> 
> Damn, I have no idea what to spend all this gold on either.  Some wands I guess...  I hate making high level characters.   [/sblock]




[sblock=DL]You're trapped in one of the last sanctuaries of free mortals left in the world, fighting for this tiny spark of light that's already tainted by its own evil but better by far than the alternative. While your mistress, the Queen of Autumn, searches for another doom it's up to you and a handful others to stand against the darkness. You are a hero and the odds are against you.
You don't have to come up with a novels worth of background, it's enough that you know who your character is and why he fights.
-

Wands have terrible DCs, but depending on the spell can still be useful. Get yourself some stat-boosters, increase your AC and saves, and you can even create some custom-made items (using the rules in the SRD or DMG) as long as I approve them and you show me the math.
 I never have enough gold when I'm making high level characters, but low level characters frustrate me with their lack of options.   [/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 14, 2008)

[sblock=Nephtys]I guess I'll just list a few magic items I'm interested in for starters.  I'm looking at a Merciful Holy Longbow, 32,375.  Elven Chain, 4,150.  Ring of Feather Falling, 2'200.  Ring of Protection +3, 18'000.  Heward's Handy Haversack for 2'000.  Hey, could I get like, a deluxe edition of that or something?  Also, just out of curiousity.  How would a Merciful Vorpal weapon work?

Can you suggest any other items for me?[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Jan 14, 2008)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> [sblock=Nephtys]I guess I'll just list a few magic items I'm interested in for starters.  I'm looking at a Merciful Holy Longbow, 32,375.  Elven Chain, 4,150.  Ring of Feather Falling, 2'200.  Ring of Protection +3, 18'000.  Heward's Handy Haversack for 2'000.  Hey, could I get like, a deluxe edition of that or something?
> Can you suggest any other items for me?[/sblock]




[sblock=DL]Sounds good. 
Deluxe edition? Like greater carrying capacity? Sure, just double the price for every doubling of the capacity.
Amulet of wisdom +6=36000 for a greater amount of more effective spells, cloak of resistance +5=25000, +? to Con, because you'll always need HPs. You probably need some more AC too, with less than 20 things are going to be pretty rough. 



			
				Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Also, just out of curiousity.  How would a Merciful Vorpal weapon work?






> Cut off your head without damaging you?  Nah, Vorpal wouldn't work with Merciful, but some other homebrewed enchantment with the same cost as vorpal could simply turn the victim unconscious. That seems balanced.
> [/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 16, 2008)

[sblock=Nephtys]About more AC, I'm not really any good at building powerful characters, so I don't really know what to do.  I could get +2 elven chain right?  I guess I could increase the power of my ring of protection.

Well, I can't afford to increase the power of my ring after all.  Here's my equipment list so far.

Equipment:
Caduceus, staff of healing: 34,950 gp
Merciful Holy Longbow: 32,375
Elven Chain +2 8,150
Ring of Feather Falling: 2,200
Ring of Protection +3 18’000
Heward’s Handy Haversack Deluxe Edition 4,000

That all costs 99,675 gp which leaves me with 10,325.  Not enough to afford anything else major.  I guess I'll by lots of healing wands.[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 20, 2008)

[sblock=Nephtys]Hm, I can get a cloak of resistance +1 and then I could get some sort of low level charisma enhancing item for my DCs, but I'm not sure what I could get.  The only thing in the DMG I could afford is also a cloak.[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm back, and if the game is still alive I'm ready to get it moving forwards again. 

--

DL, You'll just have to pick what you think works best. You'll have plenty of chances of getting new loot as the game progresses and there are shops on the surface, so it's not like the choice is permanent.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Feb 13, 2008)

Peeking my head in to see if the game could use another warm body. 


-Blood


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## Gli'jar (Feb 16, 2008)

Good to see you have returned. I am ready to game on.


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## Dire Lemming (Feb 16, 2008)

But you've gotten me all nervous!


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## Nephtys (Feb 20, 2008)

I'm sorry about my continued absence from the game, but I've been a preoccupied with real life and haven't found any inspiration for gaming and writing. I'll try to get back to it tonight.


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## Dire Lemming (Mar 4, 2008)

Hm...  No one is posting anymore huh?  That's a shame.  Well I guess I don't have to feel so bad about still not finishing my character. :\


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## Gli'jar (Mar 10, 2008)

Yeah. Looks like things are going quite slow. Been waiting for an update to see how the stone construct thing acts.


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