# Metamagic reduction



## milo (Sep 4, 2007)

What are all the different ways for an arcane caster to reduce his metamagic feat spell level increase?
I only know of  a few.  Metamagic school focus from complete mage.  Incantrix prestige class lowered metamagic spell level, that is in MoF.  I can't think of any other feats or class abilities that do that.  I know you can take the rapid metamagic feats and use 1/day or 3x/day depending on the dm's variant.  And the ever popular metamagic rods.  Any body else have any sources?


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## Winding Road (Sep 4, 2007)

Arcane Thesis from PHB2 allows you to lower the metamagic spell level increase by one for a specific spell. (It also gives you a +2 caster level for that spell.)


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## Cephid (Sep 4, 2007)

I have a sorcerer/incantatrix with Arcane Thesis(disintegrate)
He casts empowered, split ray disintegrate as a 6th level spell (and at +2 caster level).

On that note, if I take heighten spell, could I apply a +2DC for no level increase?
(or a +2 to any other spell for a +1 level increase?)


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## wildstarsreach (Sep 4, 2007)

Improved Metamagic from the Epic handbook.  Decreases metamagic feats by 1 to a minimum of 1.  Epic feat.


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## milo (Sep 4, 2007)

I don't think the reduction does much for heighten because you choose your increase.  If you choose to cast as two levels higher and lowered by one it would be +1 DC or you could just ignore the ability for this feat and choose to cast as one level higher.


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## saucercrab (Sep 4, 2007)

milo said:
			
		

> Incantrix prestige class lowered metamagic spell level, that is in MoF.



The incantatrix was updated in _Player's Guide to Faerun_. The dweomerkeeper PrC (originally from FR's _Faiths & Pantheons_, updated in _Complete Divine_'s web enhancement) has the same ability, & the Halruaan elder PrC (from FR's _Shining South_) has a limited version.


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## Winding Road (Sep 4, 2007)

Cephid said:
			
		

> I have a sorcerer/incantatrix with Arcane Thesis(disintegrate)
> He casts empowered, split ray disintegrate as a 6th level spell (and at +2 caster level).
> 
> On that note, if I take heighten spell, could I apply a +2DC for no level increase?
> (or a +2 to any other spell for a +1 level increase?)




Arcane Thesis specifically calls out Heighten Spell as the only metamagic it doesn't affect. So that combo won't work.


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## Rystil Arden (Sep 4, 2007)

Winding Road said:
			
		

> Arcane Thesis specifically calls out Heighten Spell as the only metamagic it doesn't affect. So that combo won't work.



 Also, you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1, so the Empowered Split Ray Disintegrate would still be level 8, not level6 like regular Disintegrate.


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## Hammerhead (Sep 4, 2007)

Anima Mage, from Tome of Magic. 

And let's not forget the supreme cheese of the Artificer from Eberron.


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## avr (Sep 4, 2007)

Artificers have no special ability to reduce the spell level increase from metamagic except for being able to craft metamagic rods or purchase Sudden metamagic feats as usual. They may be overpowered but they have no special relationship with metamagic as far as I know.


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## Cephid (Sep 4, 2007)

Rystil Arden said:
			
		

> Also, you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1, so the Empowered Split Ray Disintegrate would still be level 8, not level6 like regular Disintegrate.




I just read Arcane Thesis again. 
Winding Road is right in that it does not work with heighten spell, but it does not say "you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1" like the incantatrix ability does. 

Incantatrix reduces empower and split ray to +1 level each, and in the cast of disentegrate, Arcane Thesis lowers each by 1, reducing the cost to +0 each.

Heighten spell allows a caster to add +x to the level to boost the DC by +x. 
Incantertrix would reduce the level increase by 1(to a minimum of +1).
Anything wrong with that?


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## Nifft (Sep 4, 2007)

Rystil Arden said:
			
		

> Also, you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1



 Some of the better-worded meta-effect reduction mechanics do indeed stipulate that one cannot decrease the level-cost below 1.

Arcane Thesis has no such wording.

The way I read it (much to my horror), it seems Arcane Thesis can even impart negative level adjustment for e.g. Energy Substitution, since it reduces the spell level and not the metamagic effect's adjustment.

A poster child for house rules. 

Cheers, -- N


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## Diirk (Sep 4, 2007)

Cephid said:
			
		

> I just read Arcane Thesis again.
> Winding Road is right in that it does not work with heighten spell, but it does not say "you can't lower the Metamagic modifier below 1" like the incantatrix ability does.
> 
> Incantatrix reduces empower and split ray to +1 level each, and in the cast of disentegrate, Arcane Thesis lowers each by 1, reducing the cost to +0 each.




The incantatrix bit is correct, as "whenever she uses a metamagic feat, the required increase in spell level (if any) is reduced by one (minimum spell level +1)". However for arcane thesis, "When you apply a metamagic feat other than Heighten Spell to that spell, the enhanced spell uses up a spell slot 1 lower than normal".

Thus for an incantatrix, an empowered split ray disruption normally uses up an 8th level slot. If you take arcane thesis in it, you use it at 1 level lower; 7th. The feat applies per spell, not per metamagic applied to the spell.

Also I'd have to say heighten + incantatrix wouldn't work, as the incantatrix ability only reduces the required increase in level of a metamagic feat, whereas heighten has no required increase in level; its purely optional. (Or if you argue it does by virtue of not being able to heighten a spell by 0 levels, the required increase would be +1 which is still too low to be lowered further)


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## Rystil Arden (Sep 4, 2007)

Nifft said:
			
		

> Some of the better-worded meta-effect reduction mechanics do indeed stipulate that one cannot decrease the level-cost below 1.
> 
> Arcane Thesis has no such wording.
> 
> ...



 Well alright then.  But I think we can agree that only the Pun-Punniest of powergamers would ever try to use it to get negative level adjustment and the like.

Also, the Incantatrix's can't let it go to 0, so that should actually still be okay (much like Ray of Enfeeblement + Shadow Strength drain won't put you to 0) unless the metamagic effect begins at +1 or +0.


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## KerlanRayne (Sep 5, 2007)

The Ultimate Magus has a related ability that lets you use a spell to pay for a metamagic feat with the spell level equal to the feat's modifier. In other words, you can trade a 4th level spell to quicken another spell for free. 

KerlanRayne


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