# Druid: Staff or Totem



## Valesin (Dec 25, 2009)

I am making my first druid (in any edition) and can't figure out whether a staff or totem is the best way to go for an implement.  I can probably figure it out after spending a while with the books/compendium, but I figure some more knowledgeable people than myself have already considered all the possibilities.

So...staff? Totem? Advantages/disadvantages of each?  Must-have magic items of one implement or the other?

Thanks!


----------



## Valesin (Dec 25, 2009)

ps:  I am going to focus on control powers over beast and summonings.  Of course, I will have some of all, but I am not looking for to build a charging/clawing/maximum melee damage kind of druid.  I am an elf going predator druid.


----------



## DracoSuave (Dec 25, 2009)

Well, unless 'Weapon Focus: Staff' appears in your build, is there any reason to restrict yourself to one or the other?  Instead, consider the entire list you have available as the menu you can choose from.  I'd just say, look at your options and choose the one or two you like best.


----------



## Valesin (Dec 25, 2009)

Well, I think "implement expertise" is pretty much a must-have feat, so I need to pick one asap.


----------



## Obryn (Dec 25, 2009)

Generally, if you don't know what you're getting, I'd go with staff.  There are more varieties of staff than of totem, and you have several options you don't with a totem - namely Weapon Focus and Staff Fighting.

-O


----------



## fba827 (Dec 25, 2009)

_based on what you wrote_ i'm inclined to say staff for your druid.

staff overlaps with wizards, and so you have more controller-y type properties to choose from (some designed for a wizard are equally valid for your proposed druid concept). and staff has been around longer (due to wizard) so there is more in terms of sheer number to find (and also more often the common-er item to be found in random loot hordes if your dm does random loot)

totem, on the other hand, overlaps with shaman so there will be less percentage of totems are cronteroll-focused, and being the more recent implement, there is less variety in terms of sheer number to choose from.


having said that, if you have any remote desire to eventually multiclass to a shaman then go with totem


----------



## DracoSuave (Dec 25, 2009)

Valesin said:


> Well, I think "implement expertise" is pretty much a must-have feat, so I need to pick one asap.




Retraining says you don't -have- to pick one asap, you just retrain into the one you have.

But yeah, your first feat doesn't have to be Imp Ex.  You hit often enough in the early levels that you really don't need the +1 to hit as much as you might need other utility feats that help you in other ways.  You'll want it by level 15 of course, but before then it's not -that- important.

Earthfall totem is -very- nice for those druids who specialize in push/slide/prone powers (and it's a surprisingly deep pool).  If you're into those, through Beast Form or what have you, it's better for damage than Staff of Ruin is.

Razor Talon totem is also another option for Beast Form druids to enjoy.  

Totem of Thunder's Keeper is a good control option, giving a push when they attack a friend.

On the other hand, Staff of Ruin is great, and Staff of Thunderwave is probably one of the best dailies for damage in items -bar none.-

Druids can really go so many different ways.  I guess the best advice is to see what powers you're taking, and go with the implement that best works towards your playstyle.  What works for one guy might not work for you.  There's no singular 'best' implement for druids... you can take whatever it is you like.


----------



## AbdulAlhazred (Dec 25, 2009)

Yeah, I really don't think Implement Expertise is that critical at first level either. Its a pretty good choice, but there are likely to be other choices which are equally good. In any case you don't know what items you may end up with and a non-magical totem is worthless, so if you do take imp. ex. then take it in staff, at least a mundane staff is a usable weapon. You can always retrain it if you get gifted with a magical totem. In any case there are a heck of a lot of good staves to choose from, so chances are you can find one you like.


----------



## DracoSuave (Dec 26, 2009)

Re: Needing a staff as a weapon:

Druids need a melee weapon for any signifigant reason?  Don't they have melee implement powers that act as basic attacks in their beast form?


----------



## hero4hire (Dec 26, 2009)

I would choose staff and get Focused Expertise Staff. This leaves you options down the road for interesting feats like Staff-Fighting gives you a bonus to the occasional opportunity attack and has more choices to multiclass into and keep the same implement.


----------



## Sabathius42 (Dec 26, 2009)

I made a beast-form focused druid and went with the Staff of the Serpent.  An extra 1d6 poison damage on all my attacks is way too sweet to pass up.

DS


----------



## Valesin (Dec 26, 2009)

Thanks for all the advice gang.  Earthfall totem is obviously the way to go given my build; now I just have to be patient until 7th level.


----------



## Mengu (Dec 26, 2009)

Valesin said:


> Thanks for all the advice gang.  Earthfall totem is obviously the way to go given my build; now I just have to be patient until 7th level.




Earthfall totem I think falls quite a bit short of the staff of ruin. At +2, the totem does extra 1d6 on a subset of your powers, a staff of ruin will do extra 2 damage on all your powers. At +3, the totem is still doing only 1d6, but the staff is doing +3. At +4 is when the Earthfall totem might become better depending on you power selections by that time.

And since it seems like you are looking for extra damage after all, weapon focus staff will help you along that path.


----------



## Valesin (Dec 26, 2009)

Mengu said:


> Earthfall totem I think falls quite a bit short of the staff of ruin. At +2, the totem does extra 1d6 on a subset of your powers, a staff of ruin will do extra 2 damage on all your powers. At +3, the totem is still doing only 1d6, but the staff is doing +3. At +4 is when the Earthfall totem might become better depending on you power selections by that time.
> 
> And since it seems like you are looking for extra damage after all, weapon focus staff will help you along that path.




[sigh] Yeah, you're right.  I loved the idea of my Wind Prison doing d6 damage to a lot of stuff with no attack roll, but by the time I am 7th level my enemies will sneer at at a d6 damage.  Meanwhile  I would have lost "x" opportunities to do +1 and eventually +2 with all attacks.

Sometimes the best choices are the less sexy ones...


----------



## Destil (Dec 26, 2009)

Resisting the urge to give every PC Bracers of Archery/Iron Armbands of Power/Staff of Ruin builds character. If you really want the item bonus rather than something interesting just take the staff you originally wanted and a Dragonshard Augment of the Mage.


----------



## Valesin (Dec 26, 2009)

This has probably been discussed a million times, but do we know for a fact (i.e., official ruling somewhere) that Weapon Focus works on an implement that is also a weapon when it is being used as an implement and NOT a weapon?


----------



## DracoSuave (Dec 26, 2009)

Mengu said:


> Earthfall totem I think falls quite a bit short of the staff of ruin. At +2, the totem does extra 1d6 on a subset of your powers, a staff of ruin will do extra 2 damage on all your powers. At +3, the totem is still doing only 1d6, but the staff is doing +3. At +4 is when the Earthfall totem might become better depending on you power selections by that time.
> 
> And since it seems like you are looking for extra damage after all, weapon focus staff will help you along that path.




1d6 is an average of 3.5 damage.

3.5 > 3.


----------



## DracoSuave (Dec 26, 2009)

Valesin said:


> This has probably been discussed a million times, but do we know for a fact (i.e., official ruling somewhere) that Weapon Focus works on an implement that is also a weapon when it is being used as an implement and NOT a weapon?




Yes, it's been that way since the Swordmage came out.  Weapon Focus doesn't mention weapon attacks anywhere.  It only mentions a type of weapon you pick for it.

It's in the faq and has been forever.


----------



## Valesin (Dec 26, 2009)

DracoSuave said:


> Yes, it's been that way since the Swordmage came out.  Weapon Focus doesn't mention weapon attacks anywhere.  It only mentions a type of weapon you pick for it.
> 
> It's in the faq and has been forever.




Thanks.


----------



## Mengu (Dec 26, 2009)

DracoSuave said:


> 1d6 is an average of 3.5 damage.
> 
> 3.5 > 3.




Yeah, the point was, it only applies to attacks that push, slide or knock prone, while the staff of ruin applies to every attack. Missing out on .5 (or 1.5) damage on those attacks to get 3 damage on all other attacks seems like a better deal, unless you can somehow make sure all your attacks do push, slide, or pull, but that seems like too much of a restriction on power selection, since immobilizing, dazing, penalizing, CA granting powers are as nice to have too.


----------



## DracoSuave (Dec 27, 2009)

Mengu said:


> Yeah, the point was, it only applies to attacks that push, slide or knock prone, while the staff of ruin applies to every attack. Missing out on .5 (or 1.5) damage on those attacks to get 3 damage on all other attacks seems like a better deal, unless you can somehow make sure all your attacks do push, slide, or pull, but that seems like too much of a restriction on power selection, since immobilizing, dazing, penalizing, CA granting powers are as nice to have too.




You'd be surprised, however, how much mileage you can get out of those.

Of course, you could always go staff in one hand, totem in the other, dual implement, and go balls to the walls on whatever is most advantageous at any time...


----------

