# Battlestar Galactica-Final Season (4) 4/4/08--He That Believeth In Me



## Truth Seeker (Apr 4, 2008)

*He That Believeth In Me*​

Writer:  *Bradley Thompson, David Weddle  * 

Star:  *Katee Sackhoff (Kara "Starbuck" Thrace),  Tricia Helfer (Number Six/Caprica Six),  Edward James Olmos (William Adama),  Jamie Bamber (Lee "Apollo" Adama),  Mary McDonnell (Laura Roslin),  Grace Park (Sharon Valerii/Sharon "Athena" Agathon),  James Callis (Gaius Baltar)  * 
Recurring Role:  *Michael Trucco (Samuel Anders)  * 

The crew members of the Galactica are shocked by the return of Starbuck. During the Cylon attack, Sam Anders has a strange confrontation with a Cylon Raider.​


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## Wormwood (Apr 4, 2008)

I'd _better _ see some reactions about the noon showing on scifi.com

edit: assuming someone here was one of the three people able to access the site, that is.


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## kitoy (Apr 4, 2008)

I caught the noon showing online, they played it as a live feed in the browser.  I missed the first 10 minutes because I thought I'd just be able to play it, then I missed 10 minutes in the middle when my wireless network went down and I had to plug directly into the router.

What I saw was pretty fantastic.  Great BSG drama and action with a cliffhanger.


The 4 revealed cylons from last season mull over their status.

Admiral Adama and Roslin aren't sure if they can trust Kara anymore.

Apollo makes a decision on his status.

Baltar as savior?

Is Kara who she says she is and even if she is, has she been brainwashed?

What do the cylons really want now?


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## Truth Seeker (Apr 4, 2008)

Let the DRAMA BEGIN!


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## dravot (Apr 4, 2008)

Squee!!!!


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 4, 2008)

Isn't there something going on with the show tonight... I can't quite remember...


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## Truth Seeker (Apr 4, 2008)

Ah yes...forgot to state this also.

NO SPOILERS BARS EVER!!!!


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 5, 2008)

Nothing To See Here


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 5, 2008)

I liked the episode, but it was not what I expected. However, that is my problem as I realize now I had unrealistically high expectations. The best part for me was the Tigh-Adama scene and Tigh’s reaction to it. I also liked Connor’s attack on Baltar and the space battle was one of the best I’ve seen so far – it looked 3D to me at a couple of points.  

However, here are some other thoughts;
•	I’m glad they gave Baltar a shave and a hair cut. Now he looks less Jesus/Charles Manson-like.
•	I hope the show explains the origins of the Baltar cult.
•	On of the minor issues that bother me is that it is so hard to detect a difference between humanoid Cylons and humans. No part of human antimony can bioluminescence, but several parts of Cylon anatomy can – that alone should be detectable. 
•	I liked the way the show handled all the potential questions of Starbuck’s return by having her character voice a lot of them. 
•	It is interesting Lee is seeking a job in the civilian government after his conflict with Roslyn during Baltar’s trial. 

Here are questions I have;
•	What were the Cylons doing at that nebula?
•	What caused the power outages?
•	Can the Final Five be reborn like the other humanoid Cylons?
•	Was Connor killed?
•	Is there something up with Baltar’s female body guard?

Here is a rather rambling thought I’m putting in spoiler tags;
•	



Spoiler



What if a great deal of what is happening is a put on my aliens? The creation of the genocidal/theological view, “Head Six” and “Head Baltar” and the reappearance of Thrace seem to be out of Cylon hands, so there is some other player. There has been a lot of talk about the Cylon’s manipulating and herding the rag tag fleet. But what if on some level the Cylons are themselves being manipulated by aliens. These hypothetical aliens alter the programming code of the Cylons so they develop there entire genocidal/theological view to set things in motion. These aliens are also responsible for “Head Six” and “Head Baltar.” Then, later, the aliens manipulate Kara Thrace’s reappearance after her “death” into leading everyone to Earth. I’m not certain what the goal would be, except to maybe to manipulate the humans and Cylons into destroying each other with a minimum of risk to the aliens.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 6, 2008)

Very interesting episode. As so often, it raises more question then it answers. 
I can't wait to see the next...

2Grumpy Celt: 
I think there is no reason to hide speculation as spoilers. Anyway, spoiler blocks don't cost anything: 
[sblock]
I think there is a 3rd force, but I wouldn't assume that they are aliens. BSG creators seem very adamant against introducing aliens in the show.
There might in fact be gods, or it might just be the "Original Colonists" that are still around and manipulating the events. Or the 3rd faction is a actually an alliance of humans and cylons. (What they are trying to achieve is still unclear. But I guess it is not the Total Annihilation of either species, though they might be willing to cause heavy casualties on both sides, maybe to unify them.)
[/sblock]


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 7, 2008)

Well, what ever they are, 



Spoiler



I think they calling them alien's is not too far off the mark. They will not be the "normal" Cylons or humans that we have known for five years now. So, even if they are not little green men, "aliens" is still an apt term.



I wonder how long it will take for Roslyn and Adama to learn about Baltar's location and activities.


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## Brown Jenkin (Apr 7, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> [sblock]
> I think there is a 3rd force, but I wouldn't assume that they are aliens. BSG creators seem very adamant against introducing aliens in the show.
> There might in fact be gods, or it might just be the "Original Colonists" that are still around and manipulating the events. Or the 3rd faction is a actually an alliance of humans and cylons. (What they are trying to achieve is still unclear. But I guess it is not the Total Annihilation of either species, though they might be willing to cause heavy casualties on both sides, maybe to unify them.)
> [/sblock]




[sblock]
Except that the new series has pulled storylines from the original series and one of those storylines was the encounter with the beings of light. What they were was never fully determined as the show never had a chance to continue properly.
[/sblock]


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## wolff96 (Apr 7, 2008)

I'll leave the speculation, the drama, and the episode description to everyone else.

I just wanted to say:  $&#* yeah, Battlestar is BACK!  That episode rocked.

(And I loved Tigh's scene on the bridge, even though I *knew* from the moment it started that it was some kind of hallucination.)

The Cylons retreating after the one scanned Anders was brutally awesome.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Apr 7, 2008)

My wife almost woke the kids up with her scream when Tighe shot Adama.  She was completely suckered in and started flipping out about the writers killing off Adama.

Great episode.  I wish I didn't have to wait for each one.


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## Villano (Apr 7, 2008)

wolff96 said:
			
		

> (And I loved Tigh's scene on the bridge, even though I *knew* from the moment it started that it was some kind of hallucination.)




I was actually fooled for a second.  I thought that they were going to reveal that Adama was the final Cylon.  Then I realized that that wouldn't make much sense since he would've met up with Tigh and the others earlier.  Plus, why would a Final Five shoot another Final Five?

BTW, is anyone else confused by the logic in this episode?  The crew seems convinced that the Cylons could have wiped them out in the attack and are confused as to why they would retreat.  Now, they seem to think that Starbuck is a Cylon and she is trying to lead them away from Earth as some sort of plot.   Does that make any sense?  They hold off destroying the fleet (or destroying Galactica and capturing the fleet) in order to lure them into an ambush in order to destroy the fleet (or destroy Galactica and capture the fleet) at some point in the future?  :\ 

I can understand the concern that Starbuck is a Cylon, but it seems their line of thinking is overly complicated.

Personally, I'm with the group that thinks that 



Spoiler



the Beings of Light from the original series are responsible for Starbuck's reappearance.  They might turn out to be "the Gods", or maybe they are from Earth (who is to say that Galactica will reach _21st century_ Earth?).  Or the Final Five Cylon types might be the Beings of Light?  Weren't they glowing when Xena (I can't remember the character's name) saw them?


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## Thornir Alekeg (Apr 7, 2008)

Villano said:
			
		

> BTW, is anyone else confused by the logic in this episode?  The crew seems convinced that the Cylons could have wiped them out in the attack and are confused as to why they would retreat.  Now, they seem to think that Starbuck is a Cylon and she is trying to lead them away from Earth as some sort of plot.   Does that make any sense?  They hold off destroying the fleet (or destroying Galactica and capturing the fleet) in order to lure them into an ambush in order to destroy the fleet (or destroy Galactica and capture the fleet) at some point in the future?  :\
> 
> I can understand the concern that Starbuck is a Cylon, but it seems their line of thinking is overly complicated.



  Have you seen the latest Order of the Stick? In this case I'm sure the thinking is that "It's only episode 1 of a new season so they can't wipe us out yet, but Starbuck might be leading us to our doom just in time for the season finale."   

Seriously, I agree with you, but as far as Roslin is concerned, there is room for only one person with divine guidance and she isn't going to give that up to Starbuck.


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## Sir Brennen (Apr 7, 2008)

I'm just waiting for the writers to kill one of the Final 4 of 5 and finding out what happens. 

My guess... they resurrect on Earth. And that Starbuck is indeed the Fifth of the Final Five and that's what happened to her.  Which is why she has a brand new Viper.


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## Kobold Avenger (Apr 7, 2008)

I liked the gags they did with Baltar as Jesus.  It was funny when it was the Hallucinatory Six talking to Baltar, and everyone thinks he's praying.  He's still the most slippery character in the show, as he finds yet another way to still be alive after everything that's happened.

And nothing beats the irony of Anders asking, "Will you still love me if I was a cylon from the start" and Starbuck's response to that.


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## Einan (Apr 7, 2008)

Rampant speculation here:

[sblock]  Okay, the phrase "This has all happened before" keeps playing in my head.  What if the reason that the 13th colony left was because they too created Cylons or at least an artificial life?  The descendents of those left behind interbred with the cylons and everyone alive today has at least some cylon blood.  That's why Dr Baltar's cylon detector doesn't work:  too much background radiation.  

Also, what if the cylons are the original earth-made cylons come again?  And when they get to Earth, it turns out Earth has been waiting for this moment?  And recognizes the models?  Even the final five?  And why are their 12 colonies and 12 models of cylon?  Are the original colonies named after the first models?  

Enough for now.  I need my BSG fix.  Why does Friday take so long?

[/sblock]


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## LightPhoenix (Apr 7, 2008)

Kobold Avenger said:
			
		

> I liked the gags they did with Baltar as Jesus.  It was funny when it was the Hallucinatory Six talking to Baltar, and everyone thinks he's praying.  He's still the most slippery character in the show, as he finds yet another way to still be alive after everything that's happened.




Or for that matter, his cult mostly being nubile young women, one of which he promptly sleeps with.  Baltar's story had me laughing right until the attack, and then I stopped.  I think Baltar, for all his rampant egomania, is deeply troubled by what he did, and he's suicidal.  I don't think he was asking for his life to be taken for the boy's... just that his life be taken at all.



> And nothing beats the irony of Anders asking, "Will you still love me if I was a cylon from the start" and Starbuck's response to that.




I kept waiting for one of the Four to trigger in the battle.  I find it interesting that it wasn't a Human-form Cylon that activated the eye-glow (after all, Anders has been in contact with most of them) but one of the "grunts."

I think the unspoken realization in CIC between Adama and Roslin was that the Cylons recognized a Final Five in the air.  Starbuck's reappearance conveniently shifted attention away from the pilots and on to her.  Whether that was intentional or not is unknown.  It pretty much gave Anders the pass though, as I'm sure the next move would have been to inspect the pilots, starting with the nuggets.

I like that Tigh brough up Baltar's Cylon-detector.  However, once the truth was out about Baltar, I'm amazed they haven't had Gaeta re-test it on Caprica Six.  I mean, they have a control!  Maybe it's the scientist in me talking.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 7, 2008)

Villano said:
			
		

> I was actually fooled for a second.  I thought that they were going to reveal that Adama was the final Cylon.  Then I realized that that wouldn't make much sense since he would've met up with Tigh and the others earlier.  Plus, why would a Final Five shoot another Final Five?
> 
> BTW, is anyone else confused by the logic in this episode?  The crew seems convinced that the Cylons could have wiped them out in the attack and are confused as to why they would retreat.  Now, they seem to think that Starbuck is a Cylon and she is trying to lead them away from Earth as some sort of plot.   Does that make any sense?  They hold off destroying the fleet (or destroying Galactica and capturing the fleet) in order to lure them into an ambush in order to destroy the fleet (or destroy Galactica and capture the fleet) at some point in the future?  :\
> 
> I can understand the concern that Starbuck is a Cylon, but it seems their line of thinking is overly complicated.




The question is - what makes sense at all? Why would the Cylons hold off the attacks? The Colonials simply don't know why. Except maybe that Starbuck arrived on the scene. And everyone saw the footage of her ship exploding. If someone can come back from the dead, it are the Cylons.

What is the logical conclusion? Not even we, the viewers know why. We presume that the detection of One of the Final Five triggered the retreat. That makes sense. 
But who send back Starbuck, and for what purpose? From the Colonial view, Starbuck appears, and the Cylons retreat. Starbuck is the only unknown here, and there can't be any "good" link between Starbuck and the Cylons? 

There is also a tiny thing that might or might not be in the mind of the characters - During Razor, they heard a warning that Starbuck would be bad for them. What did this mean?

So, what's the most sensible thing to do for the Colonials? Continue their path, or change the course?


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## Villano (Apr 7, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> The question is - what makes sense at all?




Like I said, I understand why they would worry that Starbuck is a Cylon.  It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.  

Roslin says that she thinks that the Cylons are using Starbuck to lead them away from Earth and nobody says, "Excuse me, Madam President, but do you really think the huge Cylon masterplan is not, in fact, to capture or kill us, but have us wander around with no idea where we're going?  So, all the attacks and death and enslavement was just a clever ruse to cover up their scheme to force us to fly around the universe in circles?"

"Why didn't they finish us off?" is the big question.  "To give us back Starbuck so she can get us lost" doesn't seem to be a reasonable answer.


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## Joker (Apr 8, 2008)

Villano said:
			
		

> Like I said, I understand why they would worry that Starbuck is a Cylon.  It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.




Maybe they're being led by Doctor Evil?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 8, 2008)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Or for that matter, his cult mostly being nubile young women, one of which he promptly sleeps with.  Baltar's story had me laughing right until the attack, and then I stopped.  I think Baltar, for all his rampant egomania, is deeply troubled by what he did, and he's suicidal.  I don't think he was asking for his life to be taken for the boy's... just that his life be taken at all.



Baltar did not want to go for a mis-trial. He wanted things to end, despite him having a good chance of "losing" and being sentenced to Death. But he is still not willing to take his own life. I guess he really began to feel guilt for what he did, no longer feeling that there is an excuse for him. He betrayed the 12 Colonials, even if not knowingly. He hid information from them. He gave Gina a bomb that killed hundreds of Colonials - and allowed the Cylons to find New Caprica. He collaborated just to save his own skin. He lived among the Cylons, and hid information from them to save himself. He wasn't fully accepted by them, either. 
It was about time he feels something about it, and that he questions himself more. 
But off course, suicide or being murdered by one of his victims is the easy solution. He won't get that.



> I kept waiting for one of the Four to trigger in the battle.  I find it interesting that it wasn't a Human-form Cylon that activated the eye-glow (after all, Anders has been in contact with most of them) but one of the "grunts."



I think the Final Five had to be aware of their status before anything could happen. And then, the Raider was the first Cylon device/creature that saw him directly, and during scanning him, he got a response none of the Cylons would have expected. It might even be something that triggers a programming unknown (or forgotten) by the other Cylons.



> I think the unspoken realization in CIC between Adama and Roslin was that the Cylons recognized a Final Five in the air.  Starbuck's reappearance conveniently shifted attention away from the pilots and on to her.  Whether that was intentional or not is unknown.  It pretty much gave Anders the pass though, as I'm sure the next move would have been to inspect the pilots, starting with the nuggets.
> 
> I like that Tigh brough up Baltar's Cylon-detector.  However, once the truth was out about Baltar, I'm amazed they haven't had Gaeta re-test it on Caprica Six.  I mean, they have a control!  Maybe it's the scientist in me talking.



I think there big problem is that they know that Balthar tested Boomer and she was a Cylon despite his findings. Later tests (if there where any) gave different results, so maybe they trusted it again. But the point is that they seem to be unable to gain 100 % conclusive information. And maybe, the detector really doesn't work on the Final Five anyway.


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## Einan (Apr 8, 2008)

Didn't Athena tell Adama at some point that the raiders and centurions can't distinguish between models?  This was done to keep them from becoming self-aware.  So it might stand to reason that they can't distinguish between the 7 common models and the final five, once they've been activated.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 8, 2008)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> •	On of the minor issues that bother me is that it is so hard to detect a difference between humanoid Cylons and humans. No part of human antimony can bioluminescence, but several parts of Cylon anatomy can – that alone should be detectable.



This is a major issue for me, and a tremendous flaw in the show that they seriously botched up. It was 'cute' in the beginning, but turned out to be silly. They can _plug into computers_. In. To. Computers.

To say that's "not detectable" to artificially (and poorly) create 'drama' is laughable nonsense, and hurts the show AFAIC.



			
				Villano said:
			
		

> Like I said, I understand why they would worry that Starbuck is a Cylon. It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.



I'm with you. Needless to say, they're not much for justifying many of their decisions. It doesn't help, in any case.



Absolutely _fantastic_ dog-fight scenes in this one. Way, way, _way_ above my expectations. Holy crap, that was better-than-TV stuff.


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## Mark Hope (Apr 8, 2008)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> I think there big problem is that they know that Balthar tested Boomer and she was a Cylon despite his findings. Later tests (if there where any) gave different results, so maybe they trusted it again. But the point is that they seem to be unable to gain 100 % conclusive information. And maybe, the detector really doesn't work on the Final Five anyway.



There is also the fact that Baltar's cylon test did actually work.  He just lied about the results (and then altered the test anyway) so no-one thinks it works, when actually it does.

As for the episode, me and the gf both loved it.  I was particularly pleased to hear a reference to the Tomb of Athena and the star-projection that the characters saw there.  It suggests again to me that the ancestors of the colonists left Earth and founded Cobol (which is why the star-map in the Tomb matches the view from Earth - whoever made it would have had to have been to Earth or come from there in the first place.)

After the fall of Cobol, it seems likely to me that the 13th tribe went back to Earth, following the path they had taken from there to reach Cobol in the first place.  Like other posters, I strongly suspect that cylons were made on Cobol in some form, or possibly even back on Earth.  I also feel that Starbuck is involved with the Beings of Light from the original series.  Maybe they are the very first cylons or something like that.  I certainly think that the Beings of Light are connected somehow to the virtual "in the head" versions of Six, Baltar and Leoben.  Virtual Six outright claims to be an angel, iirc, and virtual Leoben says that he never really was Leoben at all.  Maybe they really are angels of some sort.

Next episode can't come too soon!


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## Steel_Wind (Apr 8, 2008)

There is another option that has not been discussed concerning Starbuck:

Starbuck is not a Cylon; and Starbuck, in fact, died.

The Guardians of Earth, with significantly advanced biotech, were able to brig her body back to life, modified her memories, added a "jump navigation detector" to her head and bamfed her back to the fleet.

Given the contemplated technologies demonstrated in the _Galactica_ setting, none of that seems above and beyond.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 8, 2008)

Mark Hope said:
			
		

> There is also the fact that Baltar's cylon test did actually work.  He just lied about the results (and then altered the test anyway) so no-one thinks it works, when actually it does.



And only Baltar knows this! (And maybe Head-Six). The reliability of the Cylon Detector is questionable in regards to the Final Five, anyway, but for the Colonials, it must look even more confusing.


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## Mallus (Apr 8, 2008)

Villano said:
			
		

> It's reasonable to think that she might be one and have no memory of it, but I find it strange that no one seems to be questioning the logic of calling off an attack that would end the fleet once and for all in order to set up an elaborate, Rube Goldberg-like plot to kill them later.



It's reasonable to think that Starbuck returning from the dead has them a little off-kilter. They're trying to reconcile the impossible.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 8, 2008)

We don't know when they stopped the Cylon testing, but it was probably after Baltar lied about Boomer's test results and she shot Adama.

We do not know if Tigh or Tyrol were ever tested. We did not see it, so it is not official one way or the other. The same is true for Roslyn's aide - she was around but not introduced yet as a character. For that matter, do we know if Kara was ever tested? 

While never witnessed, it is highly unlikely Anders was test as he was not introduced to the fleet until after the testing was suspended.


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## Dark Psion (Apr 8, 2008)

Didn't Baltar say in the episode that introduced Ellen Tigh, that everyone was going to pass the test? 

And Adama and the President did say that they and others in high positions should be tested first.


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## Atreides (Apr 8, 2008)

Baltar sabotaged his own Testing after he decided he couldn't deal with the Moral obligation of informing Adama and Roslyn of who was a Cylon and who wasn't - so he decided everyone would automatically pass and then it would never become an issue.  It is yet another example of when he fell to 'weakness'.


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## LightPhoenix (Apr 8, 2008)

Dark Psion said:
			
		

> Didn't Baltar say in the episode that introduced Ellen Tigh, that everyone was going to pass the test?




Indeed.  Half of the problem was that Head Gina explicitly said Boomer would flip out and kill him if he told her she was a Cylon.  No reason to think any of the others wouldn't do the same thing.



			
				Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> I think there big problem is that they know that Balthar tested Boomer and she was a Cylon despite his findings. Later tests (if there where any) gave different results, so maybe they trusted it again. But the point is that they seem to be unable to gain 100 % conclusive information. And maybe, the detector really doesn't work on the Final Five anyway.




I understand that point.  My problem is, the man who _colluded with Cylons_ developed the test.  My first thought would be to check if he sabotaged the Cylon detector.  Before that might not have been possible - but now it is.  They have not one, but two known Cylons (Caprica, Athena) with them.


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## evillyn666 (Apr 9, 2008)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I understand that point.  My problem is, the man who _colluded with Cylons_ developed the test.  My first thought would be to check if he sabotaged the Cylon detector.  Before that might not have been possible - but now it is.  They have not one, but two known Cylons (Caprica, Athena) with them.




The problem with Baltar's cylon detector is that he is the only one who understands it. Baltar is super smart and as they have pointed out many times, his intelligence far out strips anyone else on the show. There is no one with the expertise to effectively check his work.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 9, 2008)

I wonder if the Cylon tester will be brought back in one form or another. 

It occurs to me that [speculation]



Spoiler



if Head Baltar and Head Six are manifestations of an alien plot or alien interference, what if there is only one and it alters its appearance when it deals with Real Baltar or Real Six. Consider, the Head version of a character has never been on screen at the same time as the Real version. So what if Head Baltar is messing with Real Six when Real Baltar happens to wander in. What would happen if he saw Head Baltar?


[/speculation]

By the way, I’m going to be away from my cable TV Friday night. I would really appreciate it if one of you gave Ron Moore a call and made certain they either repeat the episode or eventually put it on DVD so I could buy a copy. That would be great. Thanks.


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## evillyn666 (Apr 9, 2008)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> By the way, I’m going to be away from my cable TV Friday night. I would really appreciate it if one of you gave Ron Moore a call and made certain they either repeat the episode or eventually put it on DVD so I could buy a copy. That would be great. Thanks.




You should be able to watch the episode online at scifi.com after it airs. Not sure if this is a recent thing they've been doing, but they keep the last few episodes available.


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## Steel_Wind (Apr 9, 2008)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Consider, the Head version of a character has never been on screen at the same time as the Real version.




This is not accurate. Head Six and Caprica Six have been in the same scene at the same time  - when Baltar was being forced to sign the execution order for Roslin et al. as I recall.

I believe Head Six was also present during Baltar's torture  on the Cylon ship - at the same time as CAprica Six,


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Apr 9, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> This is not accurate. Head Six and Caprica Six have been in the same scene at the same time  - when Baltar was being forced to sign the execution order for Roslin et al. as I recall.
> 
> I believe Head Six was also present during Baltar's torture  on the Cylon ship - at the same time as CAprica Six,



 Actually...they were in the same scene, yes, but did we see them at the exact same time?

I think we did, but I'm fuzzy on that. Most times we see Head Six any other Six that happens to be around usually disappears from view from what I remember.


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## Sir Brennen (Apr 9, 2008)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Actually...they were in the same scene, yes, but did we see them at the exact same time?
> 
> I think we did, but I'm fuzzy on that. Most times we see Head Six any other Six that happens to be around usually disappears from view from what I remember.



Part of that is simply the logistics and expense of having one actress in the same shot. 

Head Six was present when Baltar first saw Gina Six, captive on the Pegasus, and reacted with shock at how this incarnation of herself had been treated. She then grew to be jealous of Baltar's attraction to this "real" copy of her.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Apr 9, 2008)

Sir Brennen said:
			
		

> Part of that is simply the logistics and expense of having one actress in the same shot.
> 
> Head Six was present when Baltar first saw Gina Six, captive on the Pegasus, and reacted with shock at how this incarnation of herself had been treated. She then grew to be jealous of Baltar's attraction to this "real" copy of her.



 But we see multiple real Sixes and Threes and the other models together alllll the time. Seems to be almost a gimmick to continually reinforce the fact that "There are many copies."

Though I do believe you're right with Gina. In fact, I think I remember seeing the two Sixes in the same shot, which is really what I'm wondering about more than anything. More often than not, though, the Head Six disappears when a Real Six is talking to Baltar, then the Real Six disappears when Head Six is talking.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 9, 2008)

I stand by my assertion that we have never seen Head Six and Real Six on screen at the same time (and that we have never seen Head Baltar and Real Baltar on screen at the same time). 

When Real Baltar was forced to sign the execution order, Head Six did not appear until after Real Six had been shot in the head – at which point she promptly appeared. 

Real Six was not present when Real Baltar was being tortured. And in any case, Head Six appeared in an entire fantasy sequence, not as part of the location where Real Baltar was located. 



			
				Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Though I do believe you're right with Gina...




Gina was of the same line as Real Six (i.e. both of the Six Model), but they were not the same individual. There for, it does not violate my theory about them to have Head Six appear in the same scene and at the same time as Gina.


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## Volaran (Apr 10, 2008)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I stand by my assertion that we have never seen Head Six and Real Six on screen at the same time (and that we have never seen Head Baltar and Real Baltar on screen at the same time).
> 
> When Real Baltar was forced to sign the execution order, Head Six did not appear until after Real Six had been shot in the head – at which point she promptly appeared.
> 
> ...




Having recently watched A Measure of Salvation, Caprica-Six was most certainly present during the torture, though for purposes of your theory, Head-Six did not appear in the room-scene, but in Baltar's mindscape of the beach.

Off the top of my head, Head-Six and Caprica-Six were also both shown in Exodus Part II when Baltar finds Hera in the deserted New Caprica.  Same scene, not mindscape.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Apr 10, 2008)

Volaran said:
			
		

> ...when Baltar finds Hera in the deserted New Caprica.




Frak. I forgot about that. so much for my theory... you Cylon lover you.


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