# Evil Clerics - Can they cast Cure Spells?



## DeathOfRats (Feb 9, 2004)

This has just blown my mind. One of the guys I play with has informed me that he could be evil and I countered saying that he has been using a wand of CLW without fail since level 1.

He countered by saying that CLW is not a good spell and therefore he can cast it.

Has it ever been the case that evil clerics can't cast cures because I seem to recall that they couldn't at one point, or maybe thats just my live action rpg I played once!

I know that they can't spontanaously cast it, but I guess it looks like they can prepare it as normal.

Cheers!


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## Sejs (Feb 9, 2004)

Evil clerics can prepare and cast cure spells, the same as any cleric can.  Similarly, a good cleric can prepare and cast inflict spells with no problem.


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## Camarath (Feb 9, 2004)

I have played in groups that House Ruled that evil clerics could not use positive energy spells and good clerics could not use negative energy spells. I don't think that was ever the case in core 3e.


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## Nightfall (Feb 9, 2004)

Evil clerics can prepare and cast cure spells, just like good clerics can prepare and cast inflict spells. Otherwise, evil clerics couldn't heal the living and that would just suck for war gods in general.


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## EPRock (Feb 9, 2004)

*Only rule apply to spontaneous casting*

Good Clerics can spontaneously cast cure spells, by trading in a spell of equal level. Evil Clerics can spontaneously cast inflict spells, by similar means

This means that a good cleric has to prepare inflict spells during the spell preparation, and evil clerics have to prepare cure spells.

Cure spells do not have [good] or [evil] descriptors in them so they are not restricted to clerics of a certain alignment.


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## Scion (Feb 9, 2004)

This is slightly off topic while being on topic 

SRD:

NEGATIVE ENERGY PLANE
To an observer, there’s little to see on the Negative Energy Plane. It is a dark, empty place, an eternal pit where a traveler can fall until the plane itself steals away all light and life. The Negative Energy Plane is the most hostile of the Inner Planes, and the most uncaring and intolerant of life. Only creatures immune to its life-draining energies can survive there. 
The Negative Energy Plane has the following traits.
• Subjective directional gravity.
• Major negative-dominant. Some areas within the plane have only the minor negative-dominant trait, and these islands tend to be inhabited.
• Enhanced magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy are maximized (as if the Maximize Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don’t require higher-level slots). Spells and spell-like abilities that are already maximized are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use negative energy, such as rebuking and controlling undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. 
• Impeded magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are impeded. Characters on this plane take a –10 penalty on Fortitude saving throws made to remove negative levels bestowed by an energy drain attack. 
Random Encounters: Because the Negative Energy Plane is virtually devoid of creatures, random encounters on the plane are exceedingly rare.

POSITIVE ENERGY PLANE
The Positive Energy Plane has no surface and is akin to the Elemental Plane of Air with its wide-open nature. However, every bit of this plane glows brightly with innate power. This power is dangerous to mortal forms, which are not made to handle it. Despite the beneficial effects of the plane, it is one of the most hostile of the Inner Planes. An unprotected character on this plane swells with power as positive energy is force-fed into her. Then, her mortal frame unable to contain that power, she immolates as if she were a small planet caught at the edge of a supernova. Visits to the Positive Energy Plane are brief, and even then travelers must be heavily protected.
The Positive Energy Plane has the following traits.
• Subjective directional gravity.
• Major positive-dominant. Some regions of the plane have the minor positive-dominant trait instead, and those islands tend to be inhabited.
• Enhanced magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use positive energy, including cure spells, are maximized (as if the Maximize Spell metamagic feat had been used on them, but the spells don’t require higher-level slots). Spells and spell-like abilities that are already maximized are unaffected by this benefit. Class abilities that use positive energy, such as turning and destroying undead, gain a +10 bonus on the roll to determine Hit Dice affected. (Undead are almost impossible to find on this plane, however.)
• Impeded magic. Spells and spell-like abilities that use negative energy (including inflict spells) are impeded.
Random Encounters: Because the Positive Energy Plane is virtually devoid of creatures, random encounters on the plane are exceedingly rare.


neither positive nor negative energy are aligned. They are not good or evil.

Cure and inflict spells use positive and negative energy, but they are also not aligned.

Hence, having the evil overlord heal his troops is not a good act


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## jgsugden (Feb 9, 2004)

Nothing in the game mechanics of the cleric class, the cure spells or the inflict spells prevents an evil cleric from preparing a healing spell. OTOH, his dark and evil deity might take exception to him using it to heal a paladin. Although healing is not inherently good, it can still be used for good purposes, so an evil deity is not completely free in the use of the spell. If he heals the wrong person, he may need to atone for acting too good.


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## Darklone (Feb 9, 2004)

I don't think any evil deity would object to the way healing was used in Destans storyhour...


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## Voadam (Feb 9, 2004)

DeathOfRats said:
			
		

> Has it ever been the case that evil clerics can't cast cures because I seem to recall that they couldn't at one point, or maybe thats just my live action rpg I played once!.
> 
> Cheers!




I believe they could not cast cures in Basic D&D, only the reversed forms of reversible spells (cause light wounds was the reverse of cure light wounds).


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## Spatula (Feb 9, 2004)

Voadam said:
			
		

> I believe they could not cast cures in Basic D&D, only the reversed forms of reversible spells (cause light wounds was the reverse of cure light wounds).



There are no evil (or good) clerics in basic D&D.


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## Voadam (Feb 9, 2004)

Spatula said:
			
		

> There are no evil (or good) clerics in basic D&D.




My mistake, I believe chaotic clerics were limited to the reversed ones in Basic and Lawful ones could not cast the reverses. There were no good or evil in Basic.


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## Staffan (Feb 10, 2004)

Voadam said:
			
		

> My mistake, I believe chaotic clerics were limited to the reversed ones in Basic and Lawful ones could not cast the reverses. There were no good or evil in Basic.



I think it was slightly more fuzzy than that: Chaotic clerics *could* cast standard spells, and Lawful ones reversed, but there was some vague admonition that they usually didn't because doing so might anger their patrons. On the other hand, they could decide to do so on the fly.

Magic-users, on the other hand, was not limited that way by alignment, but on the other hand had to memorize the appropriate version.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 10, 2004)

Scion said:
			
		

> neither positive nor negative energy are aligned. They are not good or evil.
> 
> Cure and inflict spells use positive and negative energy, but they are also not aligned.




It's worth noting that Defenders of the Faith states that channeling negative energy is an evil act, and channeling positive energy is a good act... and the cure/inflict spells open with "You channel positive/negative energy..."

So, while an evil Cleric can cast Cure Light Wounds, since it does not have the [Good] descriptor, it is arguably a good act.

And a multiclassed Paladin/Cleric who casts Inflict Light Wounds is arguably committing an evil act by channeling negative energy, and risking his paladinhood...

-Hyp.


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## Nightfall (Feb 10, 2004)

Yep but it's not going to happen that often unless you have a sadistic paladin/cleric. And those don't come in good guys usually. Machostics, sure.  

But I believe when they say CHANNEL, they mean use that energy when turning/destroying undead and rebuking/commanding undead. But that's just me.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 10, 2004)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> But I believe when they say CHANNEL, they mean use that energy when turning/destroying undead and rebuking/commanding undead.




Yeah, and if they'd used any other word in the CLW description ("You utilise positive energy"; "You draw upon positive energy"; "You employ positive energy"; "You cure people with positive energy"), I'd have no hesitation in agreeing that that's the obvious intention.

But "Channeling positive energy is a good act", followed by "You channel positive energy"... well, it's pretty weasel-proof 

-Hyp.


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## Nightfall (Feb 10, 2004)

In which case I take Defenders of the Faith and give it to Triumph to do his business on it. Which is as it should be for such a crappy book.


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## Hypersmurf (Feb 10, 2004)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> In which case I take Defenders of the Faith and give it to Triumph to do his business on it.




Well, yeah, that's always the other option.

It's about the way I feel about the expanded Share Spells rules in Tome and Blood.

-Hyp.


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## Nightfall (Feb 10, 2004)

It's how I feel about ALL the class books except a little bit with Masters of the Wild. Now the Complete books at least have a theme and therefore I feel will be better focused.


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## Scion (Feb 10, 2004)

Much like book of exalted deeds and poison? Really, every splat book is going to have something that is wrong according to core, hopefully it will be easy enough to pick them out as typos. Possibly gross, enormous, and all encompasing typos, but typos none-the-less


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## Gary Turner (Mar 6, 2017)

I've an undead lich that wants to torment his captives. Can he cast Cure Minor Wounds out of evil delight?


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