# What are you reading? [March 2017]



## Kramodlog (Mar 1, 2017)

I just started _The Color of Magic_ by Terry Pratchett and _The invisible Man_ by H.G. Wells. Both classics that I waited too long to read.

I was wondering, do others read more than book at a time? What is your limit? Mine is three.


----------



## Blue (Mar 1, 2017)

I read multiple books at a time.  Besides anything else I'll have some book that either fluff or a reread on my phone for when I unexpectedly have nothing to do and have no book.

If a book is larger then a mass market paperback (I can slip that into my pocket) I may grab another book if I'm heading out and expect a delay.

I've, ahem, misplaced books with some regularity and started another, then found the first.

I can add a non-fiction book to my reading while still reading fiction.

Right now I'm actively reading Terry Pratchet's Moving Pictures, which started as a small-form-factor book while I was reading GGK's Under Heaven, but I've finished that.  I had started, misplaced, then found under the couch Barry Hughart's Bridge of Birds, but since it's also fictional China based like Under Heaven, I'm waiting a bit before I continue.  I have Saladin Ahmed's Throne of the Crescent Moon on my phone.  I'm also reading The Good Gut, non-fiction about gut flora.


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 1, 2017)

Just finished Ben Wallace books that take place after bombs drop. Entertaining. Currently reading Ocean at the End of the Lane. Then I will go back to The Light Fantastic, which I am not so far enjoying as much as the first book.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Janx (Mar 1, 2017)

I am backlogged on reading stuff for my writer's guild.

I've got a draft novel from a writer friend to read and markup

I've got a guild member Curt Locklear's published novel Asunder to check out and do a review on.  it's a civil war piece.  Not sure what it's about yet as I just started it last night.

I'm not sure what I'd be reading next if these hadn't gotten on the queue.

I finished the 1st draft of my novel last month.  I'm letting it ferment.  I suspect there are some good bits in there, but I may have a mess of a story and predict I'll be pulling large tracts out as notes and resculpting the plot.


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Mar 1, 2017)

The Expanse show got me reading Leviathan Wakes by James Corey.  So far so good!   Love the show and the book is going well. 

Also reading The Art of Power by Jon Meacham.  Its an autobiograpy of one of my favorite Presidents, Thomas Jefferson.   I've been meaning to knock it out for a while but things keep coming up.  Digging into it now.  Will probalby tackle American Lion by the same author next.


----------



## carrot (Mar 3, 2017)

I'm working my way through "The faithful and the Fallen" series by John Gwynne. Currently I'm on book 3 of 4. It's proving to be an entertaining story with quite a few unexpected plot twists. It does have a few plot holes, and the battle scenes tend to be a little silly, but I'm enjoying it anyway!

After I finish book 4, I'm onto the latest Green Rider book by  Kristen Britain.


----------



## Blue (Mar 3, 2017)

Zaukrie said:


> Then I will go back to The Light Fantastic, which I am not so far enjoying as much as the first book.




Personally I like the later Discworld books better then the first few.  But I have to admit that I was deficient in reading them, less than 8 over the years.  Last summer I started picking them up and reading internal series - like all the guards books, then all the witches books.  I recently reread the first two Rincewind books after several decades, and found that they didn't deliver as well as the more recent books.


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 3, 2017)

Blue said:


> Personally I like the later Discworld books better then the first few.  But I have to admit that I was deficient in reading them, less than 8 over the years.  Last summer I started picking them up and reading internal series - like all the guards books, then all the witches books.  I recently reread the first two Rincewind books after several decades, and found that they didn't deliver as well as the more recent books.



Good to know. Thanks

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Blue (Mar 3, 2017)

[MENTION=2057]Zaukrie[/MENTION], I found this chart to be useful for picking a reading order for Discworld.

https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--4EmYfKiz--/d34yd011pr76kiehfi3m.jpg


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 4, 2017)

Blue said:


> Right now I'm actively reading Terry Pratchet's Moving Pictures, which started as a small-form-factor book while I was reading GGK's Under Heaven, but I've finished that.  I had started, misplaced, then found under the couch Barry Hughart's Bridge of Birds, but since it's also fictional China based like Under Heaven, I'm waiting a bit before I continue.  I have Saladin Ahmed's Throne of the Crescent Moon on my phone.  I'm also reading The Good Gut, non-fiction about gut flora.




Your reading list sounds a lot like my reading list. _Under Heaven_ is great, but _Bridge of Birds_ is permanently affixed to my best books list. _Crescent Moon_ didn't thrill, alas. I haven't read _Moving Pictures_, but agree that later Prachett is better than older Prachett. I think I enjoy the biting social satire. 

I just pulled out _Mind of the Raven_, by Bernd Heinrich (about, duh, ravens) to read, and am partway into _The Adventures of the Peerless Peer_, a Sherlock Holmes-meets-Tarzan book "edited" by Philip Jose Farmer. I've been a bit off my game due to work (ironically, I read less when I'm travelling for work because 13-hour days are exhausting) and illness. I did read _December 6_, by Martin Cruz Smith (a very good book, per usual, but Harry sounds a lot like Arkady Renko and it's distracting) and _You Suck_, by Christopher Moore (honestly, didn't enjoy it. I've read it before, so not sure if I forgot that I disliked it or if I was in a more sympathetic mood the first time around.)  I also got some game books from John Stater (Bloody Basic Mother Goose Edition; NOD 30; and Blood & Treasure Monsters 2nd Edition.)

And I picked up a copy of _The Atlantic_ at the airport (...Detroit? There are so many...)  I remember my parents reading it and thinking it was the most boring stuff on Earth, and now I'm of that age.... <sigh>


----------



## was (Mar 5, 2017)

..I read only one at time, but I have a stack of them from the library who lets me check them out for three weeks at a time


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 6, 2017)

The Invisible Man is a solid piece of work. And it’s pretty impossible to go wrong with Discworld (though I will agree with everyone else that it gets exponentially better as the series goes on).

I normally have one book I carry with me to read, one that I read before going to sleep (generally nothing heady there), and a couple of volumes I’m idly looking through at any one time.

I just finished reading Sanderson’s Arcanum Unbound, his Cosmere Collection of short stories and novellas. I definitely appreciated the spoiler warnings at the beginning of some of them. Now I’m on to Lawrence’s King of Thorns, to see what vicious Jorg Ancrath is up to.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 6, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> And it’s pretty impossible to go wrong with Discworld (though I will agree with everyone else that it gets exponentially better as the series goes on).



I'm halfway through it. I like it. Reminds me of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_, but more enjoyable. There is no "wow-factor" though. I've read many times that the series gets better with time. Why do you think it does?


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 7, 2017)

For my part, I think it’s in the little moments when Terry Pratchett touches on the human condition. How, amidst the comedic elements, these are truths of existence simply and powerful stated.



Kramodlog said:


> I'm halfway through it. I like it. Reminds me of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_, but more enjoyable. There is no "wow-factor" though. I've read many times that the series gets better with time. Why do you think it does?


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 7, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> For my part, I think it’s in the little moments when Terry Pratchett touches on the human condition. How, amidst the comedic elements, these are truths of existence simply and powerful stated.




This. And, particularly as he gets more into the social commentary side of things, there are very real moments where you sit back and think about how to change our world to make it better.


----------



## megamania (Mar 10, 2017)

Just started Stephen King's 'The Gun Slinger'.


----------



## Blue (Mar 10, 2017)

megamania said:


> Just started Stephen King's 'The Gun Slinger'.




How is it?  I've never been a big King fan, but I've had the sneaking suspicion that an opinion formed a few decades back and not verified with my current reading habits may be holding me back from some good reads.

Do you have a favorite King to introduce people to his writing?


----------



## Ashley1234 (Mar 10, 2017)

I'm currently reading Interview With a Vampire again. I just finished reading the graphic novels for Mass Effect, and I'll start reading the Mass Effect novels I picked up soon. 


Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 10, 2017)

Blue said:


> How is it?



_The Gunslinger _is composed of novellas. The first one, _The Gunslinger_, is really really good and it is worth reading just for that one alone. The others aren't great and I didn't make me want to continue the Dark Tower series. The concensus is that the series gets worse as it progresses.



> Do you have a favorite King to introduce people to his writing?



Nah. _It_ is supposed to be the best and it was long and not that well written. The novella _The Gunslinger_ is good though. I'm not sure why King is so popular. I guess his writing is accessable even if they are often very long.


----------



## trappedslider (Mar 10, 2017)

Blue said:


> How is it?  I've never been a big King fan, but I've had the sneaking suspicion that an opinion formed a few decades back and not verified with my current reading habits may be holding me back from some good reads.
> 
> Do you have a favorite King to introduce people to his writing?




I suggest The Stand complete and unabridge, however most of his work is door stopper length (Under The Dome for paper back was split into two volumes). Carrie is also good IMO but it's written in an after action report style. The Cell was okay. As opposed to  Kramodlog I've only heard good stuff about the Dark Tower series. King's also considered by a fairly large number to be one of the masters of Horror fiction.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 11, 2017)

The Dark Tower series can be split into two parts - pre-accident and post-accident (the accident being when SK was hit by a car while walking, and very nearly died. Took him ages to start writing again, and when he did he wanted to finish the Dark Tower series). The pre-accident books are pretty good. They never -quite- clicked for me, but still very worth reading. The best description I ever heard of them was "American" fantasy, not "European" fantasy. No kings, no ancient swords, etc, etc. 
The post-accident books are pretty wild, but all of them needed a hard editing. King got way too indulgent with himself, and his editor let him get away with it. There was a massive increase in page count per book after the accident.

Overall, I actually have a hard time judging them. Stephen King, when he's on the top of his game, is simply amazing. The Dark Tower series is still a master at work, but....


As far as what to read...Skeleton Crew and Night Shift. Both short story collections; both will make it clear why he's considered a master of horror. I haven't read his stuff in quite a while, but the classics are always good - Carrie, Firestarter, and Christine were my favorites. 

IMO, much of Stephen's gift is in how effortlessly he makes it. He makes telling a story look easy, and reading it almost effortless. There really aren't that many authors out there that can do that.


Edit: One benefit of King - he's got a lot of books out, and they're available everywhere. You can sample around.

http://www.rollingstone.com/culture/lists/readers-poll-the-10-best-stephen-king-books-20141105


----------



## trappedslider (Mar 11, 2017)

One thing I forgot to mention was that Carrie has been the only book I refuse to read again,not due to any issues with the writing but  just because it freaked me out so much.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 11, 2017)

trappedslider said:


> One thing I forgot to mention was that Carrie has been the only book I refuse to read again,not due to any issues with the writing but  just because it freaked me out so much.




I'd call that a recommendation.


----------



## trappedslider (Mar 11, 2017)

Nellisir said:


> I'd call that a recommendation.




i think it had to do with how much malice (for lack of a better word) there is in the book between all the characters. The mother,the other students and then Carrie.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 11, 2017)

trappedslider said:


> i think it had to do with how much malice (for lack of a better word) there is in the book between all the characters. The mother,the other students and then Carrie.




Yeah, but no one gets freaked out by a crappy book.


----------



## Blue (Mar 12, 2017)

trappedslider said:


> i think it had to do with how much malice (for lack of a better word) there is in the book between all the characters. The mother,the other students and then Carrie.




I hear you, sometimes a book just hits a trigger.  I can't reread Game of Thrones now that I've had kids, I just get too angry at what happens to children in those books starting very early on.


----------



## EmberGod (Mar 13, 2017)

I have finished The Devil in the White city


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 13, 2017)

EmberGod said:


> I have finished The Devil in the White city



The story behind the Ferris Wheel is pretty awesome. That's what I remember.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 13, 2017)

While the series has increasingly gone off the rails, it’s hard to argue with Interview with a Vampire and The Vampire Lestat. Absolute Modern Gothic/Vampire classics.



Ashley1234 said:


> I'm currently reading Interview With a Vampire again. I just finished reading the graphic novels for Mass Effect, and I'll start reading the Mass Effect novels I picked up soon.
> 
> 
> Sent from my iPhone using EN World mobile app


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 13, 2017)

That was an excellent read. I was expecting to prefer the H.H. Holmes sections, but the World’s Fair parts were just as riveting.



EmberGod said:


> I have finished The Devil in the White city


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 13, 2017)

Nellisir said:


> I just pulled out _Mind of the Raven_, by Bernd Heinrich (about, duh, ravens) to read,



2/3rds of the way through it. It's not...fascinating, but pretty easy to just keep chugging along.



> and am partway into _The Adventures of the Peerless Peer_, a Sherlock Holmes-meets-Tarzan book "edited" by Philip Jose Farmer.



Finished. About what you'd expect, given that the mcguffin is a bacteria "weaponized" to eat sauerkraut. 


I got and reread _Cibola Burn_ - was prepared to be all caught up on The Expanse (book) series, but _Babylon's Ashes_ is out in a hardback form, damn it. The Expanse (tv series) is seriously amazing, BTW. Check it out.

I have a few books that I've borrowed or been loaned, I'm going to try and get some of those done soon.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 14, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> While *the series has increasingly gone off the rails*, it’s hard to argue with Interview with a Vampire and The Vampire Lestat. Absolute Modern Gothic/Vampire classics.



You're just saying that because Lestat is in Atlantis in the last book.


----------



## jonesy (Mar 14, 2017)

I'm currently reading The Truth About the Harry Quebert Affair. Midway through, and the plot feels quite convoluted and the dialogue jumpy. I find myself having to go back to reread earlier passages, and cringing at some of the exchanges between characters. It might be better in the original french, I really don't know.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 14, 2017)

Can’t argue with that, but it was an earlier book that made me tap out, when vampires were shooting laser beams out of their eyes.



Kramodlog said:


> You're just saying that because Lestat is in Atlantis in the last book.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 14, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> Can’t argue with that, but it was an earlier book that made me tap out, when vampires were shooting laser beams out of their eyes.



When was that? I left that series way too early it seems.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 15, 2017)

Maybe the Vampire Armand? It was definitely while Lestat was sleeping. Vittorio the Vampire was pretty good, though. I think that was the last in the series that I honestly enjoyed.

Tangentially-related, I keep meaning to re-read Cry to Heaven. I remember loving that one back in the 90s.



Kramodlog said:


> When was that? I left that series way too early it seems.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 16, 2017)

Finished King of Thorns, by Mark Lawrence. I think I waited too long in-between reading the first and the second in the series, but once I got into the book, all was fine and dandy. 

Now I’m reading Leckie’s Ancillary Sword, the second Imperial Radch book.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 16, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> Now I’m reading Leckie’s Ancillary Sword, the second Imperial Radch book.




Its most exciting part is a tea set. I didn't want to finish reading the series after that one and a I decided I would only read the first books of trilogies/series from now on. Unless it was really really good.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 16, 2017)

Heh, it is a rather nice tea set! I had heard that the second book wasn’t as good as the first, which is why I went to the library for it rather than buy it. Also grabbed a new-ish translation of The Odyssey, which I haven’t read in many years.



Kramodlog said:


> Its most exciting part is a tea set. I didn't want to finish reading the series after that one and a I decided I would only read the first books of trilogies/series from now on. Unless it was really really good.


----------



## Garamal (Mar 19, 2017)

All the time) At home I have a book to read before going to sleep or on weekends and during the day while commuting I can read another one that doesn't need a lot of concentration


----------



## trappedslider (Mar 20, 2017)

Since I last posted, I've read The Whistler by John Grisham ( the ending felt a bit rushed),Day by Day Armageddon by J. L. Bourne  book one in a series. I've also  read the Notes from the Internet Apocalypse trilogy by  Wayne Gladstone (it was okay, all were less than 300 pages or so) and One Second After and One Year After by William R. Forstchen ( very good, Look forward to reading the third book The Final Day.)


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 21, 2017)

I finished _The Color of Magic_. It was light and fun, but I'm divided on reading other Discworld books. The series is supposed to get better, but how good does it get? At some point I think I'll read _Mort_, as it always comes up in lists of the better Discworld books, but I'm just not sure. 

I also finished _The Invisible Man_. Wells' work is impressive in the sense as he thought a lot about the details of invisibility when no one before him (as far as I know) did. Like how eaten food wouldn't become automatically invisible in the Invisible Man's stomach. How smoke in the lungs from a cigare would be apparent. Or how footsteps in the mud could be followed. 

The character and the story aren't paticularly enjoyable. Griffin, the Invisible Man, isn't likable. He is selfish and paranoid. Today an author could only cast him as a superhero. Here he is a villain. The novella originally came out as a novella, so it feels like Wells wrote the story as it was published, and sometimes you have sense he changed his idea about the plot. Still, it is an influencial classic and I'm glad I read it.

I started _Ender's Game_. I'm 36 pages in. It is a modern classic that gets a lot of good, enthusiastic reviews, so I've been wanting to read it for a while. For a book written in 1985, it sure has a retrograde take on women. It looks like a it is all about wondering if the end justifys the means. The bullying of the protagonist is already getting on my nerves. It is just a trope we see too often on TV, in films and mangas.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 21, 2017)

I’d definitely give some of the later Discworld novels a try – the Night Watch ones are my personal favorites, but there’s a lot that’s good. Colour of Magic is fun, but it’s only the beginning.

Griffin is assuredly the villain, the monster of The Invisible Man, and a jerk. I think the movie version helped the story by adding the part about the invisibility serum also causing madness (I think that wasn’t in the book, anyway, it’s been a while).

Yeah, Ender’s Game is problematic. I get that it’s an influential piece of military sci-fi, but it’s got some troubling themes and it’s hard to uncouple the book from Card’s antics.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 21, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> Griffin is assuredly the villain, the monster of The Invisible Man, and a jerk. I think the movie version helped the story by adding the part about the invisibility serum also causing madness (I think that wasn’t in the book, anyway, it’s been a while).



It doesn't say that it the novella. Kemp, the doctor the Invisible Man tells his story, says that Griffin is "pure selfishness". I think it was Wells telling us, consciously or not, how he envisioned his character. But that only makes the character two dimensional.



> Yeah, Ender’s Game is problematic. I get that it’s an influential piece of military sci-fi, but it’s got some troubling themes and it’s hard to uncouple the book from Card’s antics.



Reminds me of _Starship Troopers_.


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 21, 2017)

Finished Ocean at the End of the Lane. Gaiman is a genius.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## tardigrade (Mar 21, 2017)

Currently re-reading "The City and The City" by China Miéville. I've read most of his stuff and I find him pretty hit-and-miss (I liked The Scar, Perdido St Station and most of the short fiction in Looking for Jake; I hated Embassytown and Kraken, and I was ambivalent about Iron Council) but TC&TC has become one of my favourite books. I'd like to include Beszel/Ul Qoma in a campaign one day but I don't think I'm a good enough DM to pull it off yet. If you haven't read TC&TC, I'd strongly suggest giving it a go.

There are only about three books I regularly re-read - the other two are American Gods and Dune.

I also have three other books on the go at the moment - "The Real Middle Earth: Magic and Mystery in the Dark Ages", "Monday starts on Saturday" and "The Chrysalids" (a re-read).  And I just finished "The Girl with all the Gifts" (absolutely loved it; great homage to I Am Legend) and "When Breath Becomes Air", which was pretty much exactly what I expected - not utterly amazing, but thoughtful. "I Contain Multitudes" is next in my pile, unless I decide to go back to American Gods again; all the hype over the new series next month is making me want to dig it out.

I've read almost every Discworld novel, but my favourite is still Small Gods, although Guards! Guards!, Lords and Ladies and Hogfather are also firm favourites.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 21, 2017)

My re-reads are The Lord of the Rings (sometimes I get ambitious and include The Hobbit and Silmarillion) and Poppy Z. Brite’s Lost Souls and Drawing Blood for that 90s Goth nostalgia. Have a bunch I keep meaning to return to, though.



tardigrade said:


> There are only about three books I regularly re-read - the other two are American Gods and Dune.


----------



## Blue (Mar 22, 2017)

Nellisir said:


> Your reading list sounds a lot like my reading list. _Under Heaven_ is great, but _Bridge of Birds_ is permanently affixed to my best books list.<sigh>




Just finished _Bridge of Birds_ and was delighted!  The story structure with it's plentiful flashbacks and stories differed from what I regularly see in a way that really brought home the feel of the setting.  I was discussing with my wife the reoccurring characters and effortless way they accomplished "side tasks" like gaining wealth, if it was part of the Chinese story cues, but then that actually ended up being a plot point.  Actually, so much was plot points - masterful job of laying pipe for it suddenly to have meaning.

It's a very different book then _Under Heaven_.  UH brought me to a level of how thinking differs, BoB engaged the whole story structure to do the same more immersively.  I cheered for Number Ten Ox, but I cared for Shen Tai.  I really enjoyed them both.

I am strongly resisting the urge to lift the "...and I have a slight flaw in my character." introduction wholesale for an RPG character.  I don't do things like that, but it was so wonderfully apropos.
</sigh>


----------



## Janx (Mar 22, 2017)

Finished the civil war novel a writer's guild member published and my friend's novel draft.

Started the first in the Iron Druid series last night.


----------



## Blue (Mar 22, 2017)

Kramodlog said:


> I finished _The Color of Magic_. It was light and fun, but I'm divided on reading other Discworld books. The series is supposed to get better, but how good does it get? At some point I think I'll read _Mort_, as it always comes up in lists of the better Discworld books, but I'm just not sure.




I've been on a recent kick of reading Discworld, which included re-reading The Color of Magic.  It's ... zanier but a lot less well developed then the later books.  I personally enjoyed later books significantly more.  It's less episodic vignettes and more whole stories, and just benefits from having written more books in the Discworld so there is more to reference and pull in.  Just more mature all around.



Kramodlog said:


> I started _Ender's Game_. I'm 36 pages in. It is a modern classic that gets a lot of good, enthusiastic reviews, so I've been wanting to read it for a while. For a book written in 1985, it sure has a retrograde take on women. It looks like a it is all about wondering if the end justifys the means. The bullying of the protagonist is already getting on my nerves. It is just a trope we see too often on TV, in films and mangas.




It's on my top books list so I'm far from unbiased, and I first read it decades ago when the tropes weren't so worn down.  Though it's harder for me to read now that I have children (same reason I can't reread Game of Thrones).  If the ends justify the means is explored and deconstructed in the book, not just taken as a given.  And if you haven't already spoiled twists I suggest not reading any reviews or seeing the movie.

BTW, if you do finish it, stop there.  The other books in the series are something different, and reading Ender's Shadow last year (the same timeframe told from Bean's PoV) actively harmed my enjoyment of Ender's Game.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 22, 2017)

Blue said:


> It's on my top books list so I'm far from unbiased, and I first read it decades ago when the tropes weren't so worn down.  Though it's harder for me to read now that I have children (same reason I can't reread Game of Thrones).  If the ends justify the means is explored and deconstructed in the book, not just taken as a given.  And if you haven't already spoiled twists I suggest not reading any reviews or seeing the movie.



I've already seen the film. 

Now that I'm passed 100 pages, I can say the book is also a power fantasy for kids who are bullied and like to play video games. Maybe it was special in 1985, but nowadays it seems pretty common.

The writing is fine. Card's prose is simple, clear, it avoids the opacity of other sci-fi novels. I do find myself cheering for Ender sometimes too. Aside from Card's politics in the novel (and real life), the problem is that I just do not like the plot and the characters. I'm suprised it is a classic. 



> BTW, if you do finish it, stop there.  The other books in the series are something different, and reading Ender's Shadow last year (the same timeframe told from Bean's PoV) actively harmed my enjoyment of Ender's Game.



For other reasons, I've decided that it would take a tremendously good first book,thebest book, to get me to read more than the first book of a series. More often then not I felt cheated* by the following books in a series. Like the author builds is or her universe in the first novel and then stretches the plot over too many books just to make a buck. Discworld is intriguing because it isn't always the same characters of plot. 


* It is a bit too strong a word.


----------



## megamania (Mar 22, 2017)

Blue said:


> How is it?  I've never been a big King fan, but I've had the sneaking suspicion that an opinion formed a few decades back and not verified with my current reading habits may be holding me back from some good reads.
> 
> Do you have a favorite King to introduce people to his writing?




I have read IT and The Stand before.  Enjoyed both.   Otherwise I don't typically read "horror".   Gunslinger was recommended to me by several friends and they stressed it was Sci-Fi, not horror.   Just finished Gunslinger and have started the second (of seven) book in the series.   Makes one think a bit but still early to say how good it is.  

Recently learned it is being made into a movie this summer.

So far, I don't like the "hero" but this may be to create room for character development.


----------



## megamania (Mar 22, 2017)

Just started The Drawing of Three by King.   Starts with a salt water Chuul attack.   How bad can the book be to start with a cool DnD monster?


----------



## Blue (Mar 22, 2017)

Kramodlog said:


> For other reasons, I've decided that it would take a tremendously good first book,thebest book, to get me to read more than the first book of a series. More often then not I felt cheated* by the following books in a series. Like the author builds is or her universe in the first novel and then stretches the plot over too many books just to make a buck. Discworld is intriguing because it isn't always the same characters of plot.
> 
> * It is a bit too strong a word.




(Below is just sharing my personal experience as well - you know what's right for you and I'm not attempting to say otherwise.)

Trilogies or other set length series which either are exactly as you say, or the last book is the best as everything comes together.  Series on the other hand can get better as the world matures and the author gets better handle on the character's voice, or again as you said peter off in sequel-itis written just to have another book in the series.  Or both - next couple of books after the first get better, but then it can't keep the steam going.  

One of my favorite series (Jim Butcher's Dresden Files) is like this - the first book is the weakest - it's eh, good.  They get better and by book 3 it's really popping.  But now, however many books in, we've reached crescendos of escalation and the more recent books aren't drawing me in like the earlier ones.

I like staying in a world and with characters I like, so I enjoy sequels.  Which is why the change in tone for the Ender's Game ones was so jarring.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 22, 2017)

Finished Ancillary Sword. I liked it – it wasn’t as intense as the first book, but it was still interesting to spend time in that world. 

Now I’m on to re-reading the Odyssey (with a new-ish 2014 translation). Haven’t read that in ages.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 23, 2017)

Blue said:


> Just finished _Bridge of Birds_ and was delighted!  The story structure with it's plentiful flashbacks and stories differed from what I regularly see in a way that really brought home the feel of the setting.  I was discussing with my wife the reoccurring characters and effortless way they accomplished "side tasks" like gaining wealth, if it was part of the Chinese story cues, but then that actually ended up being a plot point.  Actually, so much was plot points - masterful job of laying pipe for it suddenly to have meaning.
> 
> It's a very different book then _Under Heaven_.  UH brought me to a level of how thinking differs, BoB engaged the whole story structure to do the same more immersively.  I cheered for Number Ten Ox, but I cared for Shen Tai.  I really enjoyed them both.
> 
> ...




I've got a policy of disregarding any "Best Fantasy Books" list that doesn't feature either _Tigana_ or _Bridge of Birds_, or preferably both. (The very best list ought to have _Little, Big_ too....)  There's a scene towards the end that always brings tears to my eyes. Not many books do that.

And yeah, "...and I have a slight flaw in my character" is right up there for character intro's.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 23, 2017)

Scalzi's latest book just came out yesterday and Vox Day is coincidentally publishing a book that is very similar to Scalzi. The author is named Johan Kalsi. http://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-pulls-castalia-house-book-for-ripping-off-john-s-1793533638


----------



## Blue (Mar 23, 2017)

[MENTION=55961]Kramodlog[/MENTION] wow, those are remarkably similar.  Like, what are the odds that was coincidental?

Just went to dig a bit and found this:  http://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-pulls-castalia-house-book-for-ripping-off-john-s-1793533638

A choice excerpt:


> There’s a reason Beale made a cover that looks exactly like Scalzi’s, and it’s not to ride his coattails. This is all part of Beale’s longstanding feud (or obsession) with Scalzi, who hasn’t shied away from criticizing him in the past. Beale has long considered himself Scalzi’s literary rival, even though they’re on completely different levels of success. Beale has said and done questionable and offensive things to perpetuate that rivalry, including accusing Scalzi of rape because of a satirical article he wrote in 2012.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 23, 2017)

Vox Day is a vile pox. Still, I’ve discovered some great books and authors by looking at the people Vox Day and the Rabid Puppies hate. Like N.K. Jemisin, whose work I've absolutely loved. 



Kramodlog said:


> Scalzi's latest book just came out yesterday and Vox Day is coincidentally publishing a book that is very similar to Scalzi. The author is named Johan Kalsi. http://io9.gizmodo.com/amazon-pulls-castalia-house-book-for-ripping-off-john-s-1793533638
> 
> View attachment 82645


----------



## Nalleile (Mar 23, 2017)

At that march I read Erich Maria Remarque "Shadows in Paradise". This is my favorite author))


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 24, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> Like N.K. Jemisin, whose work I've absolutely loved.




I adore NK Jemisin. One of my recent (past 10 years?) favorites.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 24, 2017)

Gave up on the Odyssey re-read. Not sure if it was the translation or what, but my eyes were glazing over. 

Now I’m reading Kai Ashante Wilson’s follow-up to Sorcerer of the Wildeeps, A Taste of Honey.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 27, 2017)

I just finished _Ender's Game_. The moral values presented at the end of the book made me feel like this page turner was propaganda. 

It is clear that the novel is an expose on the "end justifying the means". The issue with that is that the situation is loaded toward feeling that extermination of the Formics was necessary. The military characters presents the situation as if there are no other courses of action than the use of violence. In this case the complete extermination of the Formics. It becomes clear that the discourse is that overpopulation will lead us to fight for terrotiry and it will be the ones who are the most ruthless who will win. The aliens are ant-like and do not have individual personality, so they are a metaphore for communists that must be exterminated or else they'll take over the world (so much for that theory).

There are contradiction in this justification. One character says to Ender that even if the aliens didn't knew they were killing intelligent being when they killed humans, the aliens still are responsable for what they did. But at the end of the novel it is revealed to Ender that he just exterminated an entire alien race, other characters say it wasn't his fault because he didn't know what he was doing since that info was hidden from him. To add insult to injury, Card then has the alien race pardon Ender for their extermination. It felt like a sick twist to make us swallow the genocide (well, xenocide). 

I hope this book is only popular because it is a power fantasy for bullied video game nerds. Not because space-Hitler is cool.


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 28, 2017)

Wow, I read it as the end did not justify the means, and that what the military did was wrong. Like, we read totally different versions. Interesting. Of course, I read it many years ago...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 28, 2017)

Zaukrie said:


> Wow, I read it as the end did not justify the means, and that what the military did was wrong. Like, we read totally different versions. Interesting. Of course, I read it many years ago...
> 
> Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk



Interesting. I see it differently because everything went the way the International Fleet wanted it to happen and their means to achieve that goal (lying, abuse of kids, genocide) proved effective. The end result is that humans get to colonize space and they get "prepared" planets out of the extermination. That solves the overpopulation problem on Earth. It is like the colonization of the Americas again. A genocides gives rich new territories to colonists. 

Ender lives, his torturers are found innocent in a trial (and so is he indirectly), he gets to see his sister, is forgiven by the species he exterminated(!), his brother ultimately sort of makes peace with him. How is genocide not justified in this novel?


----------



## trappedslider (Mar 28, 2017)

I've only seen the Hitler aspect used by detractors of either the book or of Card himself or a combo of both. It's on the reading list of some military academies iirc.


----------



## cmad1977 (Mar 28, 2017)

A thread on an Internet forum about what people are reading. Very interesting. 


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 28, 2017)

Finished A Taste of Honey. Good stuff from a rising star. Now I’m reading the Medieval work, The Poem of the Cid. I remember seeing the Charlton Heston movie in class when I was a kid, but that’s about it.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 29, 2017)

trappedslider said:


> I've only seen the Hitler aspect used by detractors of either the book or of Card himself or a combo of both.



I would be surprised if people who praise the book would compare it to Hitler, Nazis or the Shoah. 



> It's on the reading list of some military academies iirc.



It ain't a positive for the novel.


----------



## Blue (Mar 29, 2017)

Zaukrie said:


> Wow, I read it as the end did not justify the means, and that what the military did was wrong. Like, we read totally different versions. Interesting. Of course, I read it many years ago...




I'm with you.  I read it as the military complex did the unspeakable and Ender's morale anguish was because of that.  Reading further books (which I don't recommend, they aren't as good) seems to hold that up.


----------



## Blue (Mar 29, 2017)

Nellisir said:


> I adore NK Jemisin. One of my recent (past 10 years?) favorites.




Never read any, but between you and [MENTION=30438]Ralif Redhammer[/MENTION] saying how much you like, I just ordered The Fifth Season.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 29, 2017)

Blue said:


> Never read any, but between you and [MENTION=30438]Ralif Redhammer[/MENTION] saying how much you like, I just ordered The Fifth Season.




Sure. Pick the one I haven't read. (It won the Hugo. Should be OK.   )

(OK, she's apparently written less than I thought. I was sure I'd read at least three different series from her, but it's gotta just be Inheritance and Dreamblood...)


In other matters, I do not recommend Sam Sykes. I'm halfway through _The Mortal Tally_ and want to shoot myself. SO MUCH WHINING.  I gotta read something good after this....


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 29, 2017)

Blue said:


> I'm with you.  I read it as the military complex did the unspeakable and Ender's morale anguish was because of that.  Reading further books (which I don't recommend, they aren't as good) seems to hold that up.




There was a point in my life when I loved Orson Scott Card's work. Now...I don't. It's been years (decades, probably) since I've read Ender's Game, and I read the first few sequels when they came out and then stopped. They definitely decline.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 29, 2017)

Talking to my roommate last night, and she was telling me how, among other annoyances, she hadn't been able to get into reading _Redwall*_. So we had a little discussion about her reading habits (mostly vet school textbooks; but loves SF, nonfic, and somewhat fantasy; not a fast reader; liked short stories; had a pretty decent list of books she'd read & enjoyed), and today I brought a bunch of books to the apartment from my house (I'm separated, but things are cordial so I've got boxes and shelves of books at the house because haha little apartment).

I told her about my two rules of recommending books: 1)I don't care if someone likes the book (we all have different tastes), and 2)I don't care if she reads any of them (we can do what we want with our time). They're on a shelf in the hall; she can grab them if she wants (except the graphics because apparently I made the shelves 1/4" too short for graphics. Bugger.)

So, in no particular order, I grabbed the following:
_Sandman_
_Saga_ (yeah, the comic. It's awesome and she loves weird SF with vulgarity and stuff)
_The Collected Stories of Vernor Vinge_ (nice solid SF; good concepts; reads smoothly)
_Tigana
Neuromancer
The Forever War
Pump Six and Other Stories
The Glass Castle
The Diamond Age
I Capture The Castle
Wool
Tuck Everlasting
The Glass Books of the Dream Eaters_

I might pull in a few more later; I don't tend to read a lot of nonfiction. Not sure where my copy of _The Devil In The White City_ is. Maybe do some mysteries...

*I read _Redwall_ this past summer, and a few sequels. Didn't grab me either, but I read fast and had time to burn.


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 29, 2017)

Tigana is awesome, as are all his books. I still have not read sandman. I remain embarrassed...

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Zaukrie (Mar 29, 2017)

Redwall and the next couple we great to read out loud to the boys on road trips when they were younger, but I could never read them as an adult 

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 29, 2017)

Awesome! It really is wonderful.

Just finished reading The Poem of the Cid. It was okay. Enjoyable enough, but I couldn’t help but feel that El Cid seemed more like a pillager than a hero.

After some debate, I’m now re-reading Leiber’s Swords Against Death. Almost went with a re-read of Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun, but decided I wasn’t quite up to the challenge yet.



Blue said:


> Never read any, but between you and [MENTION=30438]Ralif Redhammer[/MENTION] saying how much you like, I just ordered The Fifth Season.


----------



## Mallus (Mar 29, 2017)

Ralif Redhammer said:


> Now I’m reading Kai Ashante Wilson’s follow-up to Sorcerer of the Wildeeps, A Taste of Honey.



Thanks for reminding me of these. I picked up Sorcerer because some reviewer said it read like Samuel Delenay + hip-hop. Then, of course, it went on the (virtual) pile of books I didn't get around to reading.



Kramodlog said:


> I hope this book is only popular because it is a power fantasy for bullied video game nerds. Not because space-Hitler is cool.



This is a popular late take on Ender's... but I don't find it to be a particularly good read on the novel. It's not about justifying genocide. That opinion developed after the Brain Eater et Card's brain and a lot of former fans felt the need to demonstrate everything Card wrote was always awful forever. 

Wyrms, Ender's Game, and, especially, Speaker for the Dead are good books. I'd highly recommend Speaker if you haven't read it -- it's where Card really wanted to go w/the story of Ender Wiggin.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 30, 2017)

Mallus said:


> This is a popular late take on Ender's... but I don't find it to be a particularly good read on the novel. It's not about justifying genocide.



The Hitler reference certainly is hyperbolic, but the defense of genocide isn't. How is genocide repudiated in this novel? Ender is literally forgiven by the species he killed. Humanity, who's planet is overpopulted, got to colonized prepared planets thanks to his genocide. Humanity feels there are no space threats anymore with the Formics dead. Ender is rewarded for his genocide by being the governor and then judge of a colony. He gets to start a religion. Everyone says he isn't responsable for the genocide. That he was tricked into it. Humans celebrate Ender. Ender's teachers and the military are put on trial and they are found (and Ender indirectly) not guilty. No one is guilty of genocide. Ender isn't scarred physically or psychologically. 

How is genocide repudiated in this novel? 



> That opinion developed after the Brain Eater et Card's brain and a lot of former fans felt the need to demonstrate everything Card wrote was always awful forever.



I'm not familiar with other stuff Card wrote, so my take all comes from _Ender's Game_. As for Card, all I know about his politics are his takes on same sex unions, which means little when it comes to genocide (one hopes at least).


----------



## Blue (Mar 30, 2017)

Kramodlog said:


> How is genocide repudiated in this novel?




Through the eyes of the main character.  (And his actions in the later books.)

Say you were reading generic cliched fantasy, and at the end of book 1 the "evil empire" had gained a lot of power because of their genocidal killing of the humans.  You wouldn't take that as an endorsement of genocide.

Don't think Ender is on the side of the military - he's been their unwitting and tricked pawn.  The powers-that-be that have been lying to the people of Earth to keep themselves in power are the villains. Just because the "evil empire" puts on a trial and finds themselves not guilty of war crimes does not make it so.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Mar 30, 2017)

They’re quick reads. I’d also say there’s a strong influence from Gene Wolfe’s Book of the New Sun series as well. 



Mallus said:


> Thanks for reminding me of these. I picked up Sorcerer because some reviewer said it read like Samuel Delenay + hip-hop. Then, of course, it went on the (virtual) pile of books I didn't get around to reading.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 30, 2017)

Blue said:


> Through the eyes of the main character.



It doesn't outweight the rest. Especially with him presented as not responsable for the genocide. 



> (And his actions in the later books.)



Except if you only read _Ender's Game_, you do not get that info. As a self-contained novel it doesn't repudiate genocide. It presents the end justifying the means. 



> Say you were reading generic cliched fantasy, and at the end of book 1 the "evil empire" had gained a lot of power because of their genocidal killing of the humans.  You wouldn't take that as an endorsement of genocide.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


----------



## Blue (Mar 30, 2017)

Kramodlog said:


> Except humanity isn't an evil empire in _Ender's Game_. That is the biggest issue with _Ender's Game_. The road to genocide is presented with a lot of nuance. Plus the military is tried not by itself.




Ah, there's an issue.  Agreed that "humanity" is not the evil empire - humanity as a whole is just as much tricked as Ender.  The powers that rule them were actively spreading the lie that the bugs were going to attack and that's how they kept their precarious authority.  It's referenced multiple times in the book.  Those leaders are the evil empire, presiding over a populous enslaved by lies instead of force.

That's part of what the whole sub-plot about his siblings is, their fight to educate and lead the masses.  They didn't understand the lie either, but they could see things were not right.


----------



## Mallus (Mar 30, 2017)

Kramodlog said:


> How is genocide repudiated in this novel?



Well, admittedly, the book doesn't end with a long epilogue chapter titled "Genocide is Really, Really, Bad, Mmmkay?" However...

The end of the novel is hardly celebratory. Ender is forced into exile, his sadistic Battle School washout brother becomes Hegemon of Earth (while also losing the only moderating influence, their sister Valentine who leaves Earth to travel with Ender), Ender does start a new secular religion, whose success destroys his war-hero status.

The best thing that happens is Ender discovers the Buggers aren't all dead. He finds a Hive Queen egg, learns to communicate with the Buggers, and they immediately realize the war was a tragic mistake borne of misunderstanding & the difficulties of inter-species communication. 



> Ender is literally forgiven by the species he killed.



Technically true, but a bit misleading. The Buggers *started* the conflict by quasi-invading our solar system. At that point they didn't think we were a self-conscious & intelligent species. And they didn't understand _individual_ consciousness at all. On top of that, the Buggers were far more technically advanced - humanity reverse-engineers the key technologies that make the International Fleet, ansible, and (I believe?) the MD Device possible. 

So yeah, Ender is forgiven, but the Buggers started it & regret their badly-handled (mandibled?) first contact.    



> Everyone says he isn't responsable for the genocide. That he was tricked into it.



He was tricked into it. That's objective true in the book.  



> Humans celebrate Ender.



Until "The Hive Queen" is published. After that, he becomes "Ender the Xenocide", a loathed historical figure. 



> Ender isn't scarred physically or psychologically.



Don't think this is supported by the text. Doesn't Ender go into shock for days after learning he used a real MD Device on the real Bugger home planet? He's clearly traumatized, and after he finds the Hive Queen egg, he devotes the rest of his life to helping bring back their species.



> How is genocide repudiated in this novel?



How isn't it? The war & attempted xenocide are ultimately a tragedy and the values the books promotes most strongly are understanding and compassion, even among dramatically different forms of life (who were former enemies).


----------



## Richards (Mar 31, 2017)

I just started up Laura Joh Rowland's _The Snow Mistress_, one of the Sano Ichiro series novels about a samurai in 1699 Japan.  This one deals with the kidnapping of his 8-year-old son, Masahiro.

Johnathan


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 31, 2017)

Mallus said:


> Well, admittedly, the book doesn't end with a long epilogue chapter titled "Genocide is Really, Really, Bad, Mmmkay?" However...



It doesn't say "genocide is doubleplusgood" either. It is all in the subtext. 



> The end of the novel is hardly celebratory.



True, but I did say it was nuance.  



> Ender is forced into exile,



Exept he didn't really like anyone on Earth except his sister and she comes with him. He is celibrated by most of humanity. He was indirectly found not guilty of genocide. He becomes a governor and then a judge of the new colony.  



> his sadistic Battle School washout brother becomes Hegemon of Earth (while also losing the only moderating influence, their sister Valentine who leaves Earth to travel with Ender),



I'm not sure this as anything to do with genocide being poopie or doubleplusgood.  



> Ender does start a new secular religion, whose success destroys his war-hero status.



I do not remember that it did.



> The best thing that happens is Ender discovers the Buggers aren't all dead. He finds a Hive Queen egg, learns to communicate with the Buggers,



That is the most problematic piece of the novel. It makes the genocide "less bad". Less of a genocide. They even forgive him. It is the washing of Ender's sins. It is a feel good ending (as much as it can be in that sort of novel). 

It made me think of Ender's mom citing the Bible in the novel. She talks about Jesus and how he comes to save humanity of it's sins and how he also comes with a sword. That is Ender right there. 



> and they immediately realize the war was a tragic mistake borne of misunderstanding & the difficulties of inter-species communication.



He already knew that. When he goes to Eros and Rackham shows him the vids of the Formics killing people there Ender realize they didn't undertand that humans were intelligent beings. He continued on with his training to kill the Formics. 



> Technically true, but a bit misleading. The Buggers *started* the conflict by quasi-invading our solar system. At that point they didn't think we were a self-conscious & intelligent species. And they didn't understand _individual_ consciousness at all. On top of that, the Buggers were far more technically advanced - humanity reverse-engineers the key technologies that make the International Fleet, ansible, and (I believe?) the MD Device possible.
> 
> So yeah, Ender is forgiven, but the Buggers started it & regret their badly-handled (mandibled?) first contact.



And boom. the end justidy the means. It is just all self-defense. 




> He was tricked into it. That's objective true in the book.



That makes his actions less bad? In the book, and you just said so above, that not knowing isn't a excuse. The Formics' ignorance is not an excuse, but Ender's is?




> Until "The Hive Queen" is published. After that, he becomes "Ender the Xenocide", a loathed historical figure.



I'm talking about the message contained in _Ender's Game_.




> Don't think this is supported by the text. Doesn't Ender go into shock for days after learning he used a real MD Device on the real Bugger home planet?



I think your thinking of the movie. It isn't clear what happens to him in the book. He goes to sleep and later gets medical attention. He was exhausted and stressed out, but it isn't explained clearly what happens to him.

He seems pretty well after that. Regretful, certainly. Suffering from PTSD? Not so sure. Ender is a portrayed as a ubermensch in the book. He seems super resilient. Graff says he'll get over it. 



> He's clearly traumatized, and after he finds the Hive Queen egg, he devotes the rest of his life to helping bring back their species.



Not in the novel. 




> How isn't it? The war & attempted xenocide are ultimately a tragedy and the values the books promotes most strongly are understanding and compassion, even among dramatically different forms of life (who were former enemies).



Is it a tragedy? It all seems to go great for humanity thanks to the genocide. And all the protagonists and antagonists of the novels. Even the Formics aren't really exterminated.


----------

