# Tell me about Star Fleet Battles



## wingsandsword (Jan 27, 2009)

For Christmas a friend of mine got me a boxed set of Star Fleet Battles that was on sale down at our local Half Price Books.  We typically get each other some kind of gaming book for Christmas, and we're both Trek fans, so it was eminently logical 

Now, my only prior experience with this game was from almost 20 years ago.  When I was in Junior High and just discovering gaming and really becoming a Trekkie I wanted to find a Star Trek RPG, and the closest thing I found at my FLGS was Star Fleet Battles (as it was several years after the FASA game ceased production, and a number of years before Last Unicorn made their game).  Unfortunately, for a 12 year old that game seemed really, well, boring and dry.

So, I now have the Captain's Edition Basic Set in its entirety (I checked to make sure all the parts and pieces are there).  As leftover stuff from my youthful dabbling I have the Captain's Advanced Missions SSD Book, New Worlds I: Lyran - Hydran - Wyn SSD Book, and New Worlds II: Neo-Tholian - Andromedan - ISC SSD Book.

However, I'm quite willing to give it another try and forget my fumbled youthful attempt at the game.

So, tell me about this game I now have a load of stuff for and an enthusiasm for giving a second chance. . .


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## Jeff Wilder (Jan 27, 2009)

You need two people that are enthusiastic about the game.  It's fun, but there are a _lot_ of rules, and learning all of those rules can produce burnout.  You need a good head of steam to prevent that.

The rules are modular, which is good.  For example, there's no reason to learn about hellbores, if nobody's playing Hydrans.

You want a systematic approach to learning the game.  One approach -- the one I'd recommend -- is that one person choose a race, and the second person choose an enemy race.

Start by learning the basics for your race: basic movement, almost always phasers, photon torpedos (for Feds), disruptors (for Klingons), special movement rules (Feds are better at emergency deceleration, I think), shields, reserve power, and so on.

Fight several one on one duels.

Then move into intermediate stuff: suicide shuttles, transporter bombs, and so on.

Fight more one on one duels, making sure to use the new rules even if it's not tactically optimal.

Finally move into advanced rules: ECM, mid-turn speed changes, tractor beams.

At this point, you'll be ready for small fleet actions: 2-on-2, 2-on-3, or 3-on-3.

From there, you can move out into other races and racial subsystems.

If you can manage to get your rules into a searchable form on a laptop, you'll find the process almost easy.  I can only imagine how much time and effort we'd have saved on rules discussions, if we'd had such resources back in the mid- to late-80s, when I played the game.  (In both Lexington and Louisville, BTW.)

My favorite race was the Lyrans, BTW, with the Kzinti close behind.  It had nothing to do with either being cat-people ... rather, I like ESGs and waves and waves of drones.

Have fun.  (Be alert for this thread to be moved, BTW.)


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## Ranger REG (Jan 27, 2009)

wingsandsword said:


> So, tell me about this game I now have a load of stuff for and an enthusiasm for giving a second chance. . .



Basically, it's a starship combat wargame.

At the start of the game, you allocate power derived from your warp engines, impulse engine, and aux (just count the numbers of undamaged boxes). Allocating power determines which part of the ship is operating, from shield to life support to movement. You also need to power up weapons, be it phasers or the respective race's weapons (Feds have photon torpedoes, Klingon have disruptor, etc.)

Once you finished preparing your ship, you begin the game using the 32-impulse movement rule. After declaring your speed, you move one hex a time according to the chart.

You can fire your weapons at any time, each weapon can only be fired once and the power you allocated to it is expended. Phasers have capacitors so if you didn't fire it, it can hold over to the next turn and you only need to pay for a holding cost (usually 1 point).


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## Wycen (Jan 27, 2009)

I loved playing the game, however, I never knew the rules.  I wasn't even moderately familiar with them.  I played with people who knew and who loved the game, (though I wonder now many years later if they really knew the rules as they claimed).

I even bought a book myself, (the Seltorans) and tried reading the rules.  But the volume of info, especially when everyone wants to play other things was too much.

I'd play a computerized version, which I suspect exist, just that my interests changed.  Now of course I'm playing VGA Planets 3, an old computer play by email game which shares a few of the core Star Trek races, but is another animal itself really.


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## bobthehappyzombie (Jan 27, 2009)

SFB is a great game for the tactically minded.
It is essentially based on power management and tactical movement.

It does take a while to learn all the intricacies of the optional rules but an easy entry is the classic federation v klingon battle. In the beginning you will believe the feds to be more powerful, but when you get a bit more experianced at the game you will discover the ships points are pretty well balanced.
Be warned however it is not a quick game to play, and if you play more than one ship each it can take many hours to play. 
The ship movement impulse chart is a great way to work out movement with varying speeds, I have long tried to replace the D&D initiative system with it... unsucessfully.


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## jaerdaph (Jan 27, 2009)

I played it once many years ago with some folks I met at work who were fellow Star Trek fans. They invited me to come over to play SFB and I was naturally very interested. 

It was the longest, dullest game I ever played in my life and couldn't wait to get out of there. 

And once my ship was destroyed, you are left with absolutely nothing to do but watch others play, which was torture for me as well. 

Of course YMMV. I can see some of the aspects I found annoying being very enjoyable to others who are in to that sort of stuff.


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## knifie_sp00nie (Jan 27, 2009)

SFB is a fun game, but as others have said, takes a long time to learn. Since you got it from Half Price, give it a shot. If you like the concept and general play, I'd suggest getting Federation Commander instead. It's from the same company and is a streamlined version of the original. I find it has everything I liked about SFB without the phonebook of rules.  Federation Commander


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## Rackhir (Jan 27, 2009)

I would avoid the Andromedans for now. Their stuff works considerably differently from anything else and you really need to know their stuff to use it correctly (or effectively).

There is in fact an online version of SFB, which might be helpful for people who can't find local opponents. It's a Java client, so it's PC/Mac/Linux compatible.

SFB Online

It is not free though, due to licensing issues they have to pay a fee for using the SSDs and such, so it runs $60 for a year's subscription, but it does give you access in electronic form to IIRC all the ships in the game.

You do still need to know the rules though, it doesn't automate everything and there is a learning curve to using it.

Jeff's advice is solid.

I found small fleet battles to be the most fun, since it lets you use a larger variety of ships and the tactics get more interesting (once you know the rules well enough). But even small fleet battles (3 ships each) will take hours to run.

It is also much, much more fun if you can get several people (4+), particularly for single ship duels. Since with just two people, things tend to fall into certain patterns. With multiple people there's a lot more variety, both in ships and tactics. Things also tend to be a lot more fluid and dynamic.

A lot of the game is essentially trying to out think your opponent and anticipate their likely behavior. If you can do this, you will crush your opposition.

If you have any specific questions, don't hesitate to ask.


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## Jack7 (Jan 27, 2009)

Like all things the game has advantages, and drawbacks. Complication can be one depending on how you approach the game.

I like some of the advice so far about how to develop rules familiarity. But it is certainly no more difficult than gaining familiarity with a role play game.

However these are the absolutely fantastic elements of the game to me.

Once you know it the it is extremely easy to develop ship designs for new aliens, or modifications on previous designs for already existing fleets. All you need is graph paper and a good design model or process.

Same for weapon systems, electronic systems, censoring systems, etc. Over the years I developed an advanced Aegis defense system, several stealth systems, time mines, a defense shielding system based upon the transporter system, the tractor beam and the deflector grid all working in concert, various spatial and temporal displacement weapons, a probing system that allowed advanced targeting and better Intel on enemy ship capabilities, reactive armor, an active misdirection field that produced false sensor data, and assorted alien weapon systems. It is an easy system to create for. 

You can play it strategically, as part of an on-going war-campaign, or tactically, as ship to ship combat.

You can play environmental obstacles in space, black holes, neutron stars, gravity wells, temporal distortion fields, mine fields, sub-space displacement fields, etc. Few things are as fun as seeing players run into wholly unexpected background situations, and scramble to try and adapt when they are not even really sure what the problem might be.

You can play with just two players, or you can use a referee.

It is the single richest tactical naval combat/ship to ship combat game I've ever seen with a whole host of weapon systems, defenses, electronic warfare possibilities, cloaking, stealth, etc. It renders a huge variety of tactical combat possibilities, and variations. I even developed a *Tactical Manual*, sort of like the real world Tacticon, that I used in order to fight different species. It described the best ways I had found to fight every different alien species encountered in the game. (You wanna fight Lyrans a lot differently than you fight Romulans.) And I developed a _Commander's Option Sheet_ (I recommend developing your own, you won't forget what you can do that will cost you a fight) that I could consult quickly, and that reminded me of all of the tactical and technological ship and combat options that I could employ during any given battle situation.

It is easily modifiable in any number of ways.

You can more or less easily adapt it to any Star Trek or related RPG. We play _Spheres of Influence_ as the ST RPG, and just use Star Fleet Battles whenever we fight ship to ship combat. So it can be easily overlain practically any Star Trek RPG. You just replace the RPG ship to ship combat system with SFB and you have a much more interesting, detailed, and tactically sharp combat system.


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Jan 28, 2009)

wingsandsword said:


> So, tell me about this game I now have a load of stuff for and an enthusiasm for giving a second chance. . .



"Don't wait for Range 0."

VERY old quote from my gaming group that came from a SFB game.  One player had weapons (I forget which they were - too long ago that I even played) that maximized damage at a range of 0.  He wanted to wait for that Range of 0 but failed to account for certain movement and instead wound up driving his ship right through the enemy.  Not much left of either vessel afterward.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 28, 2009)

Range 0 can be your friend...if you're properly prepared.

I tend to play Hydrans or Tholians, but I get forced to play Gorns on occasion.  In a battle of Hvy cruisers using the plotted movement rules, I drove my Gorn down the throat of the Fed ship I was facing, and released my plasma torps at the last second.  The Fed player was a vet- he had MASSIVELY reinforced his front shields and took the damage with just a smidgen of internal damage while pretty much doing the same to me as well.  I then did a High Energy Turn (made the roll) and ran...and of course he followed.

What he didn't know was that at the same time as we were ripping up subspace in front of us, I had dropped my rear shield and left behind some Nuclear Space Mines.

On the next turn- my rear shield up and reinforced (he didn't have enough FA phasers & photon torpedoes left to drop it)- I left my hex, he entered..._*BOOM!*_

Essentially, that was it.  His barely-there shields were shredded by the mines and the next turn, he ran as fast as he could while I did a nice, broad turn to bring my remaining torpedoes to bear on him.  He escaped, though quite embarrassed.

Good times, good times.

And as luck would have it, we're going to be playing SFB next week- probably a fleet action of some kind.  I wonder if he'll remember that...and all the _other_ nasty stuff I've done to him in SFB?


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## Jack7 (Jan 29, 2009)

> I tend to play Hydrans or Tholians, but I get forced to play Gorns on occasion. In a battle of Hvy cruisers using the plotted movement rules, I drove my Gorn down the throat of the Fed ship I was facing, and released my plasma torps at the last second. The Fed player was a vet- he had MASSIVELY reinforced his front shields and took the damage with just a smidgen of internal damage while pretty much doing the same to me as well. I then did a High Energy Turn (made the roll) and ran...and of course he followed.
> 
> What he didn't know was that at the same time as we were ripping up subspace in front of us, I had dropped my rear shield and left behind some Nuclear Space Mines.
> 
> ...




See now, I like that kind of play.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2009)

Thanks!

I may just have to dig my SFB books out so I can re-sharpen my horns before next Tuesday...its been, what, a decade since last I played?

Barring that, I could use some hints to boost my game a bit- any nifty tricks for the basic races out there?  Nasty ECM/ECCM tricks up your sleeves?  That NSM trick is nice, but its not too practical for fleet engagements (unless they stay tightly grouped so that a ship explosion could start a nice ripple effect...).

For the record, if my side is playing Tholians, I will _rule_ them!  I like to use Black Widow carriers and web-equipped fighters to make networks of hexagonal webs to fight out of, skirmish style.  Think of it like having an "instant fortress" from which my Tholians will launch sorties...  Its simply rude.


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## JohnRTroy (Jan 29, 2009)

Out of curiosity, does anybody know how SFB was able to keep their license for so long?  It's not official "Star Trek", but it certainly uses concepts like Klingon, Orion, Tholian, etc, from the show which are not "public domain" by any means.  I can't seem to find information about this from Wikipedia.

I heard it was some license loophole from some other product that had a perpetual license, something from the original technical manual or something?  This is an odd situation and I'm just curious how this happened.


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## Jack7 (Jan 29, 2009)

> Barring that, I could use some hints to boost my game a bit- any nifty tricks for the basic races out there? Nasty ECM/ECCM tricks up your sleeves? That NSM trick is nice, but its not too practical for fleet engagements (unless they stay tightly grouped so that a ship explosion could start a nice ripple effect...).




Well Dan, a lot of the tricks I use are based on the things I detailed above. I use probes a lot to give me detailed information on enemy dispositions and weapon systems, and so forth, especially with multiple ship engagements.

I believe strongly in information advantage and information warfare, rather than just guessing at what my opponent may be up to or may be able to do.

One thing I really suggest is this: *Commander's Option Sheet*

It will keep you straight on your options.
Make up a sheet detailing every thing your ship can do, and every trick you know, and put it on one sheet and keep it with you during combat. You won't have to hold in mind everything you're trying to do by memory and you can glance at it as a checklist to assure yourself that you're not forgetting some important thing or ploy when you can least afford to.

A Commander's Option Sheet or Combat Option Sheet will give you a real advantage when fighting others and they are trying to remember everything in their head.

Also I'm big on maneuver, HETs, trick acceleration and deceleration, trying out new weapon systems, experimenting around. I also like using shuttle warfare, transporter bombs, mines (like you), misdirection's, and boarding and raiding actions. Boarding and raiding actions are hard work, but you can really cripple an opponent fast that way, if you do it right. Occasionally I'll use fighters, but me personally, I hold them off a fight til an enemy is weakened and distracted with me and my ships, then I employ. I never send fighters out til my enemy is exhausted, weakened, or distracted. Cause in the panic of being swarmed he makes mistakes I can exploit.

Well, getting close to time for _Lost._
Good luck with your fight.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2009)

JohnRTroy said:


> Out of curiosity, does anybody know how SFB was able to keep their license for so long?  It's not official "Star Trek", but it certainly uses concepts like Klingon, Orion, Tholian, etc, from the show which are not "public domain" by any means.  I can't seem to find information about this from Wikipedia.
> 
> I heard it was some license loophole from some other product that had a perpetual license, something from the original technical manual or something?  This is an odd situation and I'm just curious how this happened.




Don't quote me, but from what I understand, the game's creators were actually on good terms with the people who licensed "Star Trek" stuff.  Good enough that some of them actually played the game once or twice.  That pretty much sealed the deal- some of the stuff in the game got declared "canon" and renewing the license became easy as pie.

That could all be urban legend, though.


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## barbaraloqw (Jan 29, 2009)

Hahaha When I saw your thread I start thinking about some story related to "star fleet battle". Prepared to told my story I clicked link. And what I have ? I feel a bit stupid


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## Fate Lawson (Jan 29, 2009)

You may want to go here:

Star Fleet Battles


and download the Cadet Training Manual to get started.

Take it one step at a time. This is the MOTHER of all tactical simulation games.* But with the right players is a blast.


* yes, I'm aware that some of the old SPI games were even more detailed, but legend has it even the designers of those beasts never completed a game.


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## Plane Sailing (Jan 30, 2009)

I've moved it to the board wargames forum as although it is more properly a tabletop wargame, it is certainly more in this category than in the RPG category.

In other news, I used to love playing this game when it first came out. There was something about the rules which really captured the spirit of the Trek universe.

Happy fun days!


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## rgard (Feb 5, 2009)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Don't quote me, but from what I understand, the game's creators were actually on good terms with the people who licensed "Star Trek" stuff.  Good enough that some of them actually played the game once or twice.  That pretty much sealed the deal- some of the stuff in the game got declared "canon" and renewing the license became easy as pie.
> 
> That could all be urban legend, though.




Hi Danny, I think it's mostly urban legend if we are talking about the original license.  Maybe some stuff was picked up by script writers and made it's way to canon, but that would only have been in the last 13 years or so.

ADB actually may have had to modify some of their products post production when they strayed beyond what paramount interpeted as the extent of the license.  The orignal first expansion for the game had klingon x (x = upgraded technology) ships with photon torpedos and the x rules were an attempt to replicate in game terms the klingon and federation ships we saw in the first Star Trek motion picture.  Some time after the first expansion came out Paramount decided that ADB's license was limited to the original series, the cartoons and  the Star Fleet Technical Manual.  Klingon x ships with photon torpedos went away after that.  I don't know if that was pressure from Paramount or a design decision by ADB, but I suspect the former.

Thanks,
Rich


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 5, 2009)

Heh- I wouldn't be surprised either way.

Anyway, we played Tuesday.  Unfortunately, it was somewhat of a fizzle- only one player had had a chance to refresh his familiarity with the rules- one guy was a total noob to the game as well- and RW issues (work, illness) thinned participation in our Klingon fleet vs Kzinti Base & ships action.  We only got in a few shots before we had to call it a night.

Luckily, the guy who had the most fun was the noob!  His fighters and drones were stoooopid lucky- when he needed low rolls, he got snake eyes.  When he needed high rolls, he got boxcars.  One fighter's drones dropped the remnant of a cruiser's #1 shield and took out 2 phasers.  Another fighter's drones dropped the rear shield of another cruiser and scored some warp hits.  Simultaneously, the Klingon player's phasers were merely nicking his drones- he had to fire bank after bank to take out some of the drones.

We'll be playing again!


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