# CSI: Las Vegas vs CSI: Miami



## Dark Jezter (May 25, 2004)

Okay, I know that the original show is just titled CSI (or CSI: Crime Scene Investigation if you want to get all technical about it), but I decided to call it CSI: Las Vegas for the purposes of differentiating the two shows.

So, last week we had CSI's season finale, and earlier we had CSI: Miami's season finale.  This poll is for people who watch both shows to see which one they like better.

I'm going to pick CSI:LV.  CSI:M is a good show, and I catch it every Monday night, but I like the cast in CSI:LV a lot more than CSI:M.

First off, there are the main characters:  Gil Grissom (CSI:LV) and Horatio Caine (CSI:M).  Grissom is intelligent and clever.  He's serious, but not overly so (Grissom often provides a few humorous one-liners in each episode).  He's a walking factbook, and has a keen knowledge of literature, science, psychology, and criminology.  But despite his intelligence and education, he is open to new ideas and new approaches to investigation.  Most importantly:  Grissom dosen't hog the spotlight, and gives the other CSIs a chance to shine.

As much as I enjoy CSI:M, I'm not very fond of Horatio Caine.  He's way too serious, he never cracks a smile, and he inserts one or more dramatic pauses in nearly _everything_ sentance he speaks (I'm expecting him to someday say something like "We... are going to McDonald's... to get a Big Mac.").  Plus, his tone of voice makes him sound like he is saying "you stupid idiot" to everybody he talks to.  Caine tries too hard to be a super-cool, intense, hard-boiled, badass cop.  My biggest reason for disliking Caine, however, is that he's the central character in every episode.  The focus on Horatio Caine can probably be blamed on David Caruso (Caine's actor), as Caruso has a reputation for being a spoiled, egotistical jerk.

Another reason I like CSI:LV is because of the supporting characters.  Sarah, Nick, Warrick, Greg, Catherine, Detective Jim Brass, and Doc Robbins are all likable characters that are easy to get attached to.  In CSI:M, the supporting characters haven't really had a chance to develop much because of the show's focus on Horatio.  The only non-Heratio character we've seen much of is Alexx, who has a disturbing tendancy to talk to the corpses that she does autopsies on.

Finally, I just like the "feel" of CSI:LV more.

Well, there you have it, my reasons for preferring CSI:LV over CSI:M.  Now I want to hear what other ENWorlders think of the shows.


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## Wycen (May 25, 2004)

I voted the Las Vegas.  You made some good points, but there are some other things, probably which I can't quantify that I like about the original better than Miami.  I think the writers for the original are probably more like me, they have actually mentioned Farscape and other shows I watch besides CSI.  Also, there is Marge Helgenberger.  

On Miami, I count down until I hear the coroner say, "Oh baby girl, what happened to you?" or something similar.  It was cute the first few times.  Also, I think LV has a mystique you can't equal with Miami.

I saw the finale for CSI, but I believe the finale for Miami was on tonight and my Monday game night ran long so I missed it.  However I did see the week before which had Horatio going to New York.  I'll assume you know there is a third CSI in the works, CSI New York.  

Gary Sineese, (spelling?) is the lead.  I might watch it just for him, plus it is CSI, but I definitely noticed a difference.

Las Vegas is usually at night, thus the scenes are darker.  Miami, being sunny, is usually during the day and brighter.  New York looks like they are going for the NYPD Blue look, viewing everything through a blue filter, (and I don't mean blue as in adult).  I don't watch NYPD Blue, never have and probably never will, so I'm not sure if I'll like the CSI NY version.


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## Dark Jezter (May 25, 2004)

Yep, I'm aware that CSI: New York is coming this fall.  I'm going to give it a chance for two reasons:  One, it's a CSI series.  Two, it stars Gary Sinese, whom I am a fan of.  I am a little concerned that the series takes place in New York, simply because there have been countless New York cop dramas on television over the last few decades.  

You brought up a good point in your post, Wycen.  CSI:LV has a darker feel, and usually takes place at night (which makes the neon lights of Vegas really stand out).  CSI:M has a very bright, sun-bleached look to it.  I prefer the feel of Las Vegas, although I can understand that some people may like the feel of Miami more.



			
				Wycen said:
			
		

> New York looks like they are going for the NYPD Blue look, viewing everything through a blue filter, (and I don't mean blue as in adult).




I noticed that too.  When I was watching the CSI: Miami episode where they went to New York, I turned to the person I was watching it with and said "Man, they really love blue camera filters, don't they?"


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## Henry (May 25, 2004)

I picked the original, as well. However, Horatio Caine is a more likeable character than Gil Grissom, which is what the writers to the respective shows intended. Overall, the supporting cast is stronger on LV than M, mainly because we know more about them. The only way we know about Yelena for instance on CSI is because she's related to Horatio.

Caruso's biggest problem is that he has Caine coming off as TOO caring and concerned. I can't see any law enforcement officer being so soulful about EVERY dead person they find justice for. Same problem with Khandi Alexander (Alex), who talks to every corpse like it's still alive. It's a great characterization trick for a few times, but EVERY DARNED SHOW?  :\ 

The other positive about Las Vegas is that they DO have cases that go unsolved; sometimes, they have to let the bad guy walk. I can only remember ONE case where it happened on Miami (girl shoots an obnoxious guy at from a beachside theater viewing).

But when it comes to the originality of cases, the supporting cast, and the storylines, I'm giving LV the thumbs up. Both are entertaining shows, but CSI is the stronger of the two.


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## Cor Azer (May 25, 2004)

Yup, the original CSI gets my nod.

Henry, I disagree with your comment that Caine is more likeable than Grissom - Grissom is the friendly but socially awkward guy. Caine, to me, just seems to... try to hard to be friendly (if you can understand what I mean).

I agree with other comments - my main problem with CSI: Miami is that Caine is basically the primary solver in every case... but he almost never seems to be doing any lab work (but that could just be because I haven't seen as many episodes of Miami as I have the original).


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## James Heard (May 25, 2004)

I think what CSI:Miami is missing is perhaps letting an episode pass where Caine does absolutely no police work but cleans house a bit and lets the rest of the cast take the spotlight (and I don't mean wiggling boobs under a sweet Southern accent either, something substantial). The metas in CSI:LV are much better, but even they could probably stand to clean some of the drifting loose ends in an episode or two. I realize that both shows are trying to focus on crime solving but after a while you have to resolve some of the vague subplots you let in. That's true even for shows like Law and Order, which truly strive to have little or no metaplot at all.


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## omokage (May 25, 2004)

I would have rather seen them do CSI: Chicago over CSI: New York, especially since both William Petersen and Gary Sinise are from Chicago and former members of Steppenwolf Theatre. Oh yeah, I'm from Chicago too, that's another reason ;}

You don't see quite as many Chicago cop dramas as New York.


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## Ghostwind (May 25, 2004)

I agree that CSI: LV is a far better written show, but I try not to compare them because they are so drastically different in style. The characters on LV have all been written so they are well-rounded and yet we are still finding things out about them. That is one of the facets of the show I really enjoy. The writers make a conscious effort to make you think of the characters as real people with real emotions. I also like that they make references to events and happenings from past episodes which helps establish a sense of continuity. Very few series do this.

CSI: Miami is also good, but I think it has yet to find its stride and pace. The first season was really good with Kim Delaney because she played well against Caruso. There are definitely times when I think to myself that Caruso graduated from the William Shatner School of Dramatic Pause Acting. After all, there's contemplative and then there's Kirk.  They need to give him a strong and combative female lead to play against.

I do see a focus on the other characters in Miami, but not to the extent as we see with LV. For example, there was the one episode where Calleigh is advising her recovering alcoholic father attorney about the evidence in a case. There was another episode where she went after a serial killer by herself. The supporting cast do get their moments, but it's much more subtle than with LV. Of the entire cast, I tend to like both Calleigh and Speedle best as characters. They have the most depth potential.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (May 25, 2004)

I also voted for CSI: LV over CSI: Miami.  LV has just a better feel, better characters and usually better stories.  Pluse Horatio seems like he would fit better on an animated version of CSI.  Just something about the personality that screams cartoon character, plus it somedays seems he runs the entire Miami-Dade police department. 

Of the proposed sequals that became CSI: NY, I would have prefered CSI: New Orleans.  There is just so much untapped potential for a police show there.  Although CSI: Chicago would have been cool.  Hell I would've prefered CSI: Anytown USA to another NYC cop show.  Not that I wont give CSI: NY a chance.


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## Mark (May 25, 2004)

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> Although CSI: Chicago would have been cool.  Hell I would've prefered CSI: Anytown USA to another NYC cop show.  Not that I wont give CSI: NY a chance.




Looks like CSI: NY is going to go head-to-head with Law and Order on Wednesday next Fall, which might be why it was chosen to be a NY series.  The kowtowing of CSI: NY to Chicago audiences by the inclusion of Gary Sinise might be offset by Law and Order's choosing of Dennis Farina to replace 
Jerry Orbach who retired this year.


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## takyris (May 25, 2004)

Ditto the popular CSI:LV vote.  I like the chemistry, I like the writing, and I like the flavor.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (May 25, 2004)

Mark said:
			
		

> Looks like CSI: NY is going to go head-to-head with Law and Order on Wednesday next Fall, which might be why it was chosen to be a NY series.  The kowtowing of CSI: NY to Chicago audiences by the inclusion of Gary Sinise might be offset by Law and Order's choosing of Dennis Farina to replace
> Jerry Orbach who retired this year.




I know Sinise has said part of why he took the role is it is going to be filmed in NYC where he lives now.  I'm not against another cop show set in NYC...  I just want to see other locals fleshed out too.

I dont think there will be a conflict for me next season.  I have been a loyal L&O fan for years, but with Orbach leaving, I don't think it will be the same, especially with Farina replacing him.  I can't take Farina seriously.  Not sure why.  Plus Orbach was the heart of L&O for me.  Sorry to take this off topic.


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## Mister Underhill (May 25, 2004)

I love CSI, but I can't even watch CSI: Miami -- David Caruso is that annoying.  He's the biggest poser tough-guy on TV.    

The cast and the writing on CSI: LV are great, though my wife and I get a good laugh at least once a week at how they're always using their little mini-mag flashlights to search pitch black crime scenes.  Flip on a light switch, why don'tcha?


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## Psychotic Dreamer (May 25, 2004)

Mister Underhill said:
			
		

> The cast and the writing on CSI: LV are great, though my wife and I get a good laugh at least once a week at how they're always using their little mini-mag flashlights to search pitch black crime scenes.  Flip on a light switch, why don'tcha?




I read somewhere there is a logical reason why they don't turn the lights on and use the flashligts instead.  It helps focus the eyes on minor details.


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## Wycen (May 25, 2004)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> I do see a focus on the other characters in Miami, but not to the extent as we see with LV. For example, there was the one episode where Calleigh is advising her recovering alcoholic father attorney about the evidence in a case. There was another episode where she went after a serial killer by herself. The supporting cast do get their moments, but it's much more subtle than with LV. Of the entire cast, I tend to like both Calleigh and Speedle best as characters. They have the most depth potential.




Thanks for reminding me.  Is the Calleigh character the same character and/or woman who was leaving Las Vegas at the beginning of the CSI series?  The character had a relationship with Grissom and for some reason the actress reminds me of that character.  Hmm, I should check TvTome or IMDB and find out.


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## Dark Jezter (May 25, 2004)

Ah, Ghostwind is right.  I forgot about the episodes where we found out more about Calleigh in CSI:M.  Apart from Horatio, she seems to be the most developed character of the show.

Oh, and as my original post probably indicates, I disagree with Henry's comment that Caine is a more likable character than Grissom.



			
				Wycen said:
			
		

> Thanks for reminding me. Is the Calleigh character the same character and/or woman who was leaving Las Vegas at the beginning of the CSI series? The character had a relationship with Grissom and for some reason the actress reminds me of that character. Hmm, I should check TvTome or IMDB and find out.




Nope.  The girl who left Las Vegas early in the CSI series was a different person than Calleigh.


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## Wycen (May 25, 2004)

Actually, she is the same person and same character, according to TVTome and IMDB.    

Interestingly, she may be the only character who makes an appearance in all 3 CSI's, (she was on the phone with Horatio in the trip to New York).


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## Dark Jezter (May 25, 2004)

Huh.  I could have sworn that the lady Grissom had a thing for was a different person.  IIRC, Grissom's lady friend was a specialist in human skulls, while Calleigh is a specialist in firearms.


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## Wycen (May 25, 2004)

Perhaps she is a specialist in bullets passing through the human skull?


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## Steve Jung (May 26, 2004)

I prefer CSI:LV as well. I rarely watch CSI:Miami, opting to watch Stargate reruns instead. I'm not sure I'm going to see CSI:NY.
A) It's up against Law & Order
B) That opening shot in the CSI:Miami lead-in to CSI:NY was corny. That jacket with CSI:NY stenciled on the back looked bad. Anyway, it's CSU (Crime Scene Unit), at least that's what L&O uses.


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## Mark Chance (May 26, 2004)

CSI: Miami is horrible. It has yet to hold my interest long enough for me to watch an entire episode. The problem is that David Caruso gets _way_ too much screen time with minimal pay off for the exposure.

At least they got rid of Delaney. Blech. They also need to fire the person responsible for Delaney's character showing up at a crime scene in the Everglades wearing stiletto heels.

Stiletto heels. In a swamp.

I was so dizzy from rolling my eyes at that one that my wife had to rush me to the emergency room.


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## wingnut_dc (May 26, 2004)

Mark Chance said:
			
		

> CSI: Miami is horrible. It has yet to hold my interest long enough for me to watch an entire episode. The problem is that David Caruso gets _way_ too much screen time with minimal pay off for the exposure.
> 
> At least they got rid of Delaney. Blech. They also need to fire the person responsible for Delaney's character showing up at a crime scene in the Everglades wearing stiletto heels.
> 
> ...




I have to agree with Mark Chance, my wife and I cannot stand Caruso or Delaney but unfortunately that was the only thing on. We were so happy when USA switched Touching Evil to Monday nights. Now we have something else to watch.  

I am looking forward to CSI: New York, big fan of Gary Sinise.


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## MaxKaladin (May 26, 2004)

> David Caruso is that annoying. He's the biggest poser tough-guy on TV.



Agreed!  I do watch CSI:M, but find Caine to be too arrogant and self-righteous and he gets too emotionally involved in the cases.  I much prefer Grissom.  He does his level best to remain objective and uninvolved.  While Caine might be more comforting to a victim of a crime, if I were an innocent person accused of a crime I'd want Grissom to be the CSI on the case.  

A sentiment someone once expressed to me about the two characters -- and one I agree with -- is that Grissom does not prejudge the case but rather studies the evidence and sees where it leads him while Caine decides fairly early on who he thinks is guilty and then tries to find evidence to fit his hypothesis.  This week's CSI was a decent example of this.  Some adult movie star was murdered.  Caine decided early on that he didn't like the owner of the company that made and distributed her films (a moral objection was implied) and spent much of the episode trying to pin the murder on the guy only for it to turn out that he wasn't involved in the crime at all.


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## Dark Jezter (May 26, 2004)

Wow, this is probably the most one-sided poll I've ever seen on ENWorld.  So far, there are 46 votes in favor of CSI:LV, and only 2 in favor of CSI:M.

And it sounds like a lot of people really don't like Horatio Caine. 



			
				MaxKaladin said:
			
		

> Caine decided early on that he didn't like the owner of the company that made and distributed her films (a moral objection was implied) and spent much of the episode trying to pin the murder on the guy only for it to turn out that he wasn't involved in the crime at all.




Although the guy _was_ guilty of distributing child porn.  If you'll recall, he found out that the porn star was only 15 years old when she started making movies, but he distributed them anyway.


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## omokage (May 26, 2004)

I think Warren Ellis sums up my opinions on David Caruso when he calls him "Carusobot."

That being said however, my wife and I get a real kick out of seeing him "emote."

I guess I just miss him as a character actor.


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## MaxKaladin (May 27, 2004)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Although the guy _was_ guilty of distributing child porn.  If you'll recall, he found out that the porn star was only 15 years old when she started making movies, but he distributed them anyway.



Yeah, and they only found that out in the last few minutes of the episode as I recall.  Most of the time Caine was trying to nail him, he had no evidence and -- as far as I could tell -- no suspicion that she was underage.  In any case, I'm not trying to defend the distributor or say that he shouldn't have gone to jail.  Rather, I'm trying to point out that Caine basically decides he wants to nail someone and then goes looking for a way to do it rather than following the evidence to the criminal like Grissom does.


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