# Poll: What is the best Warlock/Wizard implement? Orb/Staff/Rod/Wand?



## Ninja-to (Apr 12, 2010)

So I bought a pretty decent looking Tiefling Warlock/Wizard figure. Finally, the Reaper guys have started to ship PC class type minis with a *CHOICE* of implement/weapon. This particular Tiefling (they call them 'Hellsworn' I think, to avoid TM infringements...) came with:

Orb
Staff
Wand (or could be rod).

I'm thinking of making my next PC a Tiefling Warlock. I know it's cliche by now, but they're both a class/race I haven't tried yet. I may try a Tiefling Wizard someday, so that option is still open too.

So questions is, which do I glue and paint??


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## Flipguarder (Apr 12, 2010)

Id go with the orb, simply because there are very few minis with orbs


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## kaomera (Apr 12, 2010)

IMHO: Rod is more iconic for a Warlock, but whether that's a plus or a minus would be up to you. Staff is also a weapon, which could be nice, depending; but the staff (if I'm thinking of the same mini) is the least visually interesting. Orbs still seem kinda weird to me, personally...

Mechanically it won't matter much until you get a superior or magical implement. Superior you'd probably go with Accurate, otherwise rod does fire & necrotic, while staff and orb do psychic (depending on what flavor of Warlock you're going with). I'd take a look at the magic items available for each of the three, and see if any of them strike your fancy...


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## Obryn (Apr 12, 2010)

Mechanically-speaking, Staff is the best-supported implement by a wide margin.  The fact that it's also a weapon means that it's a valid target for Weapon Focus.  Additionally, there's the Staff Fighting feat which (1) Gives you a handy +1 to AC, and (2) Makes it a double implement for Dual Implement Spellcaster.  (Also, it means you have a good weapon in-hand for those rare OA's.)  Finally, three words - _Staff of Ruin_.

With that said, you'd need to spend a feat to use it for a Warlock.

-O


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## UngeheuerLich (Apr 12, 2010)

If a rod was a club i would also go with a club. Having a weapon at hand is well worth it. (even if you usually miss)


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## Shin Okada (Apr 13, 2010)

Staff. A Staff is also a weapon. Having Flaming Staff and such is quite useful (say, when fighting against Trolls).


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## Ninja-to (Apr 15, 2010)

Flipguarder said:


> Id go with the orb, simply because there are very few minis with orbs




Yeah I haven't seen many with rods/wands either...


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## Ninja-to (Jun 5, 2010)

Obryn said:


> Mechanically-speaking, Staff is the best-supported implement by a wide margin.  The fact that it's also a weapon means that it's a valid target for Weapon Focus.  Additionally, there's the Staff Fighting feat which (1) Gives you a handy +1 to AC, and (2) Makes it a double implement for Dual Implement Spellcaster.  (Also, it means you have a good weapon in-hand for those rare OA's.)  Finally, three words - _Staff of Ruin_.
> 
> With that said, you'd need to spend a feat to use it for a Warlock.
> 
> -O




Can you use a feat to use a staff as an implement as a Warlock? If so I can't see which feat that would be. If someone could answer fairly quick it would be nice I"m rolling up my character now and we're starting in an hour...


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## DracoSuave (Jun 6, 2010)

Ninja-to said:


> Can you use a feat to use a staff as an implement as a Warlock? If so I can't see which feat that would be. If someone could answer fairly quick it would be nice I"m rolling up my character now and we're starting in an hour...




Arcane Implement Proficiency.

Tho, if you're only level one making a Tiefling Warlock, you get more mileage out of Hellfire Blood, going Star Pact and picking up all the juicy Fear and Fire powers in the Warlock perview.

Then, an ashen rod, so you get +1 to attack reflex (which makes up for the difficulty in piercing it) and +2 to damage with fire powers, which combined with the above, gives you +2 to attack, and +3 to damage with your favorite element.

And you can still take versatile expertise, astral fire, and have all that stack on there as well.

Oh, and when you get to paragon, and all the fire-resistance pops out, you're fire, and fire is the best at piercing resistance with its feats.


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## Ninja-to (Jun 6, 2010)

DracoSuave said:


> Arcane Implement Proficiency.
> 
> Tho, if you're only level one making a Tiefling Warlock, you get more mileage out of Hellfire Blood, going Star Pact and picking up all the juicy Fear and Fire powers in the Warlock perview.
> 
> ...




Am I stacking Cha or Con? It looks like 'Con' from the Star Pact abilities but then Fear and Fire stuff is Cha for the Encounter... omg.


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## Mengu (Jun 6, 2010)

Conventional wisdom says staff.

However you can make a very nice infernal warlock with an ashen rod, using some of the new tiefling feats like Blood Pact of Cania, Hellish Blast, and at paragon Hellfire of Mephistopheles.


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## Votan (Jun 6, 2010)

Odd that the Orb is ranking so lowly, these days.


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## DracoSuave (Jun 6, 2010)

Ninja-to said:


> Am I stacking Cha or Con? It looks like 'Con' from the Star Pact abilities but then Fear and Fire stuff is Cha for the Encounter... omg.




Both, get 13 strength so you can have chain, increase both.  Your Con will be one lower than your Charisma, but that'll work out well in the wash.


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## Dice4Hire (Jun 6, 2010)

I would go with staff myself, as MBAs can be nice. Having he enmies run around you without fear is a bit annoying.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 6, 2010)

Depends on the PC...

If I want something mainstream, I'd go R/S/W...probably a staff, so I can whack people on the head with it.

If, OTOH, I want to base my PC on The Bowler from _Mystery Men_, Orb is the only way to go...ditto The Tall Man from _Phantasm_.


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## Bold or Stupid (Jun 6, 2010)

Since your doing a Warlock, I'd say Rod, they have lots of potential nice powers that are warlock exclusive.

If you were going wizard staff all the way (to paragon then take orb or tome as a second implement.


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## Mengu (Jun 6, 2010)

Votan said:


> Odd that the Orb is ranking so lowly, these days.




I guess fire is the first thing that comes to mind for a tiefling, so for a tiefling wizard, it's natural for orb not to be a popular choice. If we were talking about a deva or gnome wizard, orb would probably have been a bit more popular.

And also the orb does nothing for a warlock. For the purpose of this poll, "staff implement" synonymous with "staff of ruin".


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## Dice4Hire (Jun 7, 2010)

Mengu said:


> And also the orb does nothing for a warlock. For the purpose of this poll, "staff implement" synonymous with "staff of ruin".




Yes, that is tuue. But a couple months ago, Orb would have been synonymous with never-save-so-you-die.

Things change.


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## Mapache (Jun 8, 2010)

I'm using that same Damien Hellfire mini for my tiefling wizard.  I did him up with an orb, because I thought it looked best, and because I was initially thinking of the charisma orb proficiency.  (I'm planning on going Orb of Nimble Thoughts at low level, then eventually adding a Staff of Ruin and Dual Implement Spellcaster.)  For visuals on the mini, I'd say go for the orb or the staff.  The wand/rod looks really fat and unsightly, and kind of obscene.


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## Ninja-to (Jun 9, 2010)

Mapache said:


> I'm using that same Damien Hellfire mini for my tiefling wizard.  I did him up with an orb, because I thought it looked best, and because I was initially thinking of the charisma orb proficiency.  (I'm planning on going Orb of Nimble Thoughts at low level, then eventually adding a Staff of Ruin and Dual Implement Spellcaster.)  For visuals on the mini, I'd say go for the orb or the staff.  The wand/rod looks really fat and unsightly, and kind of obscene.




Yeah I tend to agree. The rod is a bit weird...


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## Mengu (Jun 9, 2010)

Ninja-to said:


> Yeah I tend to agree. The rod is a bit weird...




It's really just the top part of the staff, chopped to size, so it doesn't look like much of a traditional wand or rod. The orb and staff are definitely more attractive looking.


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## Neonchameleon (Jun 9, 2010)

From a mechanical perspective:

Warlock rods rock.  The Staff of Ruin is the best wizard implement going, although nothing beats an Orb for a dedicated control wizard.  Wands are meh but can be used by either.


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## DracoSuave (Jun 9, 2010)

Staff of Ruin is only good if you don't care one whit about utility.

If you -actually- care about Utility in any capacity, then you take the implement that has the utility you like the most.


And if you're a warlock who doesn't care about utility, you're not using the class to its true potential.

And if you're a wizard who doesn't care about utility, you're not using the ROLE to its true potential.

And by 'utility' I do not mean 'Utility Powers'.


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## Mengu (Jun 9, 2010)

DracoSuave said:


> Staff of Ruin is only good if you don't care one whit about utility.
> 
> If you -actually- care about Utility in any capacity, then you take the implement that has the utility you like the most.




While I agree that utility is important, with Dual implement you get to carry two implements (and can have a lower level collection if you like). So all you really have to do is use the utility staff when you need it, and the Staff of Ruin for everything else.

For instance, you could easily off-hand an Architect's staff for your zones and walls, and use a staff of ruin in your main hand, and have a Staff of Expansion +1 in your Deep Pocket Cloak for when you want a giant Stinking Cloud.

Perhaps there is a two staff combo that works really well, which may be worth sacrificing the item bonus to damage. And for two different implement combos, I can see a summoner wizard using a tome in one hand and a Staff of Summoning in the other, forgoing the staff of ruin. But even then, I expect it will be more of a corner case.


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## DracoSuave (Jun 9, 2010)

Mengu said:


> While I agree that utility is important, with Dual implement you get to carry two implements (and can have a lower level collection if you like). So all you really have to do is use the utility staff when you need it, and the Staff of Ruin for everything else.
> 
> For instance, you could easily off-hand an Architect's staff for your zones and walls, and use a staff of ruin in your main hand, and have a Staff of Expansion +1 in your Deep Pocket Cloak for when you want a giant Stinking Cloud.
> 
> Perhaps there is a two staff combo that works really well, which may be worth sacrificing the item bonus to damage. And for two different implement combos, I can see a summoner wizard using a tome in one hand and a Staff of Summoning in the other, forgoing the staff of ruin. But even then, I expect it will be more of a corner case.




The ONLY reason Staff of Ruin appears in the equation is Char Op.

And Char Op + Arcane Power Source + Damage = Sorcerer.

Also, Char Op + Arcane Power Source + AoE Damage = Sorcerer.

Seeing as we're dealing with a Wizard or Warlock, we can assume the above don't apply, and instead Char Op for things -those- classes do.

Some of them Rods are not terrible for Warlocks.


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## Obryn (Jun 9, 2010)

DracoSuave said:


> Staff of Ruin is only good if you don't care one whit about utility.
> 
> If you -actually- care about Utility in any capacity, then you take the implement that has the utility you like the most.
> 
> ...



Every character should care about damage.  Period.  Even controllers.  While it may not be their chief purpose, it's guaranteed to be helpful in every single combat.

There are cases where a decent Daily can be good, too.  Heck, there are cases where it can be _great_.  But a Staff of Ruin is guaranteed to be good, all the time.

-O


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