# Release dates for 11 and 12?



## doppelganger

Looking through all the artwork for 11 really makes me want it that much more. Do we have a release date?


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## Morrus

Next few days for 11; 3 weeks or so for 12.


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## Morrus

Scratch that.  #11 is now available!

http://enworld.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=87&filters=0_0_0


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## DItheringFool

Morrus said:
			
		

> Scratch that.  #11 is now available!
> 
> http://enworld.rpgnow.com/index.php?manufacturers_id=87&filters=0_0_0



That is great news!!!  ...but I do not have an email for the subscription.


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## Krensky

I haven't gotten an email either.


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## Morrus

Are they in your order history, at least?  you can download it directly from there.

I'll contact RPGNow about the email issue.


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## Morrus

OK, do you have the emails now?


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## DItheringFool

I still don't have an email but I found the link under the My Account's "View all products I've purchased, with download links"

THANKS!!!


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## Selganor

Reactivating the download worked (thanks again for making this a zip again), but still no email in sight.


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## Ithaqua

No e-mail, but downloading


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## Nikosandros

I also haven't received e-mails for the last two releases.


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## Voadam

I got double emails for 10 and 11.


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## Nikosandros

Voadam said:
			
		

> I got double emails for 10 and 11.



That's where mine went...


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## Dark Psion

Any word when Book 11 will be available in print at Lulu?

The softcover link takes you to the ENWorld page at Lulu, but there is no book 11 on the list.


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## Morrus

Dark Psion said:
			
		

> Any word when Book 11 will be available in print at Lulu?
> 
> The softcover link takes you to the ENWorld page at Lulu, but there is no book 11 on the list.




I've been having trouble getting it up on Lulu.  The site keeps timing out on me when I try to add the file.  No idea why, but I've been trying for well over a week now!


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## Psion

Nikosandros said:
			
		

> That's where mine went...




Yeah, I never got an email. I just saw the announcement, went to my download page and it was there.


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## Festivus

Looking forward to the conclusion.  Great work to all who contributed to this.


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## DItheringFool

Morrus said:
			
		

> Next few days for 11; 3 weeks or so for 12.



Any word on the last release date?


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## Rugult

My guess is that this 'little 4e' thing might be part of the reason.  Silly new edition...


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## Morrus

Rugult said:
			
		

> My guess is that this 'little 4e' thing might be part of the reason.  Silly new edition...




Nah - more a case of my own inablity.  Half of the adventure is written (by Darrin Drader), and I'm trying to write an equal number of words again to flesh out a massive big-battle finale involving the PCs and tie it into the adventure portion.


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## doppelganger

Morrus said:
			
		

> Nah - more a case of my own inablity.  Half of the adventure is written (by Darrin Drader), and I'm trying to write an equal number of words again to flesh out a massive big-battle finale involving the PCs and tie it into the adventure portion.




Take your time, man! Let's end this campaign with an awesome spectacle of a finale that has people talking about it for years to come.


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## Darrin Drader

doppelganger said:
			
		

> Take your time, man! Let's end this campaign with an awesome spectacle of a finale that has people talking about it for years to come.




I think people will be pleased with it. When I started work on it, we were immediately in a quandary over the mass combat aspect of the adventure. We agreed on a way that would allow you to roleplay some aspects of it, but it was by no means a full on player-controlled battle. I think that Morrus's revised approach will be pretty darn cool, though it would have been impossible for me to do within the parameters that were set for me.

On another note, I'll get to share a product credit with Russ.


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## Morrus

The approach I'm taking is a modified Victory Points system I created a couple of years back.  I think it works well.

SPOILERS - LOOK AWAY IF YOU DON'T WANT TO SEE


The big battle features everyone still alive at the end of the saga.  If they were an important part of the saga, you'll see them there.  Disaffected generals, unfriendly elven rulers, Gate Pass resistance fighters, brothers of defeated archmages and their monk-warriors, Ragesian Empresses, Lyceum mages, allied nations and so on - much mroe than that.

Essentially, you need to gain a certain number of victory points to win the battle.  Your victory points start depending on what allies you have made over the saga, and then change daily.  If they reach zero, Leska wins and rules the world; if they reach a target number, Leska's forces are permanently defeated.

There are, essentially, three sides - the heroes, the elves and Leska.  

Each day, victory points can go up or down, depending on:

- daily random events (Rantle has fallen in battle!)  
- strategic missions (defeat enemy heroes and leaders, break or defend a supply line... or, favourite, convince Longinus to pilot what's left of the Tempest for you!)
- recruiting allies (rescue Shalosta from the enemy army and gain her force of treants and archers; convince a disaffected general to switch sides; what will the Shahalesti do - help you, or wait it out and take on the losers?)

It's a lot more involved than that, but that's the basic concept.  I want the PCs to feel they are in the middle of an epic battle where anything can happen, and anyone can die - and that their actions are vital to the success of the allies.


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## Volaran

Hey there Morrus.

Since it is vaguely related to release times, I was just wondering if there are going to be any announcements of the contest winners anytime soon?


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## Morrus

Volaran said:
			
		

> Hey there Morrus.
> 
> Since it is vaguely related to release times, I was just wondering if there are going to be any announcements of the contest winners anytime soon?




Yep - I've narrowed it down to four.  Out of those I have to choose 1st-3rd place; not an easy choice!


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## Rugult

Now I am quite intrigued...  Since I'm running through Adventure 8 at the moment, a lot of the epic battles have been in the background.  From what I have seen, there should be a bit more of this in adventure 9, but I am really looking forward to seeing what's in this adventure!


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## Pinotage

Any update on the release of the 12th and final installment?

Pinotage


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## Keith Robinson

Pinotage said:


> Any update on the release of the 12th and final installment?




Yeah, ditto that.  I'm looking forward to the final installment.  Any news on its release date yet?


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## Psion

I, too, anticipate the last chapter mightily.


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## Ithaqua

Me too, ¿there is nothing you can anticipate about the release date?


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## DItheringFool

I would appreciate an update please.


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## Morrus

DItheringFool said:


> I would appreciate an update please.




Still working on it.

We have *an adventure*.  We just want it to rock your socks off and be MASSIVE, given that it's the last.  So we're taking longer and making more effort than we ever have before.

However, I do appreciate that this is causing a significant delay.  So I'm willing to offer this deal: to those who don't wish to wait - which is a completely fair position to take - I am willing to provide the final adventure at the stage it is now.  it's a full adventure, perfectly servicable, and equal to the others in the series; you won't be losing anything.

And then, to those who choose to delay, they can get the version I plan to put out - which is, in terms of size, quality, etc., worth siginificantly more than the price of the adventure.  

That way, we've given you the choice; the only reason it's taken so long is that I was personally determined to give you _more_ than you've paid for as a thank you for supporting us this long.

But we do have a final adventure which we'll release to those who prefer not to wait, in the interests of fairness and transparency.


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## Rugult

Does requesting this 'unpolished' adventure stop me from getting the final copy?



I'm a glutton for stuff!


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## Morrus

Rugult said:


> Does requesting this 'unpolished' adventure stop me from getting the final copy?




It does; I think that's only fair to the people who opt to wait for the added value stuff.  That way, you get what you've paid for, while they get something extra as a token of gratitude for their patience.

That seems an eminently fair way to handle it, I tihnk.


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## Volaran

Morrus said:


> It does; I think that's only fair to the people who opt to wait for the added value stuff.  That way, you get what you've paid for, while they get something extra as a token of gratitude for their patience.
> 
> That seems an eminently fair way to handle it, I tihnk.




(Making sure to save a copy of this entire post this time.  Lots of "cannot connect" messages today.)

With all due respect Morrus, Adventure 12 is now two and a half months past your original projected release date at the beginning of this thread.  It is also seven months past the original projected end date of the War of the Burning Sky (December 07). Patience, at this point, is relative.

Today our group has started adventure 9, so while the release date of 12 is looming, it is not yet urgent.  However, it would be nice to be able to work in some foreshadowing of the events in 12.

Now, I do not object to a "deluxe" edition of Adventure 12 in any way.  Certainly it seems like it would be something cool for the occasionally mentioned hard cover release.  However, during previous delays, there has been a certain willingness from the team to allow subscribers  early access to the rough draft.  Granted, these offers were all made by Mr. Nock to my recollection, but it was a good policy.

Would it be possible for you to at least let us know what sort of bonuses you might be offering for the final version? Expanded setting information would be welcome, for instance.  However, if it is more in the way of another Metamophosis/ogdoad tie-in, then I wouldn't be as excited.

Also, is there any information on the contest winners yet?  Have you narrowed it from four to three?  If not, perhaps all four side-adventures could be part of the bonus content in Adventure 12.


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## Morrus

Volaran said:


> With all due respect Morrus, Adventure 12 is now two and a half months past your original projected release date at the beginning of this thread.  It is also seven months past the original projected end date of the War of the Burning Sky (December 07). Patience, at this point, is relative.




Thus my desire to reward patience.  The alternative is to just have _everyone_ wait.  At least this way I'm putting the power of decision in the hands of you guys: you can decide what works better for you; I'm not "mandating" a choice from above.



> Would it be possible for you to at least let us know what sort of bonuses you might be offering for the final version? Expanded setting information would be welcome, for instance.  However, if it is more in the way of another Metamophosis/ogdoad tie-in, then I wouldn't be as excited.




And adventure _twice_ the size of that originally planned. Literally, an additional number of wods equal to that already written.



> Also, is there any information on the contest winners yet?  Have you narrowed it from four to three?  If not, perhaps all four side-adventures could be part of the bonus content in Adventure 12.




Yep; I think I've pretty much decided.  I change dmy mind once or twice, but I think I've picked the best.  I'll be announcing it very soon.  

One of these will be absolutely free to subscribers, givng you something extra beyond what you've paid for - again, as a gesture of thanks for your support and patience throughout the saga.


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## Volaran

Thank you for the quick reply, Morrus.



Morrus said:


> Thus my desire to reward patience.  The alternative is to just have _everyone_ wait.  At least this way I'm putting the power of decision in the hands of you guys: you can decide what works better for you; I'm not "mandating" a choice from above.




Certainly I appreciate you being up front about this.  I don't think it is an ideal solution, but there are far worse ones you could be giving us.  You can't be faulted for offering choice.




Morrus said:


> And adventure _twice_ the size of that originally planned. Literally, an additional number of wods equal to that already written.




This is something I'm certainly interested in. However, the way you have phrased it, it sounds like none of this additional content has been written yet.  Are you looking at another potential 2-3 month delay while this is written, edited, etc?

Is Mr. Drader still working on this new material in addition to yourself?





Morrus said:


> Yep; I think I've pretty much decided.  I change dmy mind once or twice, but I think I've picked the best.  I'll be announcing it very soon.
> 
> One of these will be absolutely free to subscribers, givng you something extra beyond what you've paid for - again, as a gesture of thanks for your support and patience throughout the saga.




That sounds fantastic.  I shall look forward to it.

Overall, I would like to emphasize that I have very much enjoyed the War of the Burning Sky.  The adventures themselves, as well as the world, are a joy to play in.  Because of it, I have noticed RPG authors whose work I will look forward to in the future.  

That said, I know this campaign saga has been something of a learning process for E.N. Publishing.  Because of that, I have high hopes for any future use of the Burning Sky setting, or new adventure paths.  However, due to the numerous delays on this project, I would hesitate before purchasing a future adventure path from the beginning.

This does not affect my view of E.N. Publishing's standalone products, of course.

I hope this has not sounded too negative.   I truly hope that adventure 12 blows me away.  That would certainly be worth the wait.


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## DItheringFool

Thanks...and based on all the info, I'll wait.  However, using your words of fairness and transparency, I would like to see more frequent updates on your progress.

People don't always mind waiting if they know what they waiting for and why.

Thanks again!


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## Morrus

DItheringFool said:


> Thanks...and based on all the info, I'll wait.  However, using your words of fairness and transparency, I would like to see more frequent updates on your progress.
> 
> People don't always mind waiting if they know what they waiting for and why.
> 
> Thanks again!




Heh - yeah, if this flippin' server stays up for long enough for me to post, that isn't a problem!


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## Darrin Drader

Volaran said:


> Is Mr. Drader still working on this new material in addition to yourself?




Morrus and I have been up against the greatest adversary anyone in this industry ever faces: scheduling! The first half of this adventure was to be the entire thing, but there was always the question of how to do the mass combat. Initially I came up with a way of dealing with it without actually dealing with it. The adventure was written and then I went on to other projects. Then Morrus decided that the final product could be so much more if the heroes could participate in the final battle, and do it in a way that would wrap up some of the loose ends from the campaign. He asked how my schedule looked, and at the time I was neck deep in a couple of other projects. I could have thrown something together quickly, but it realistically wouldn't have been of the same quality as if I had taken the time needed to do it right.

Morrus has had a lot on his plate recently, as have I, but I'd say that things are coming together nicely. I don't think the final product will disappoint anybody.


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## amethal

We've only just started adventure 7, so waiting isn't an issue for us. (Who'd have known that all that time we waste during our sessions would pay dividends in the end )

And the next adventure path you put out I'll be subscribing from day 1. This one has been so good, and no doubt a learning process as well, that I expect the next one to be awesome.


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## meomwt

Given we've barely scratched the surface of Part 1, waiting for Part 12 (whilst irksome) is not a problem. 

I've enjoyed reasing the adventures to date (always a good sign) and am eagerly anticipating the resolution. 

I'm content to wait for the Whole Nine Yards version, TYVM.

What I want next from EN Publishing is a full Gazetteer for Gate Pass, which (IMO) is one of the coolest concepts for a Fantasy City since Necromancer Games' _The Grey Citadel_. 

Of course, should help be required to write it, I can be found easily...


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## Rugult

I've found a simple way to resolve the delay for Adventure 12.  As we are now well into adventure 9...

What our group will be doing is a series of 'specials' (perhaps starting around Christmas time).  These specials will each take place over the course of one adventure.  So one special for Adventure 10, one for 11, and since 12 will be a much larger endeavor, I anticipate being able to split it into two separate specials.

I'm still thinking of how to work Cybermen into Adventure 10....


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## doppelganger

It has been three more weeks without an update. Is the hope of converting War of the Burning Sky to 4E causing some of the delay? I would like to take you (Morrus) up on the deal to get the already completed adventure. How do I do so?


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## Rugult

While I'd agree that it has been a while since any word has come about the Burning Sky, I know Gencon obviously puts a damper on things.  To be honest, really bad timing (4e gets released, bang Gencon).

I guess a brief update on where things are at would be cool!  I myself am not as worried since my campaign went on a little hiatus due to scheduling...  and I think my group is still the furthest along (halfway through adventure 9)  =D


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## Morrus

Well, Ryan Nock has now joined the "WotBS #12 team" (as you may recall, he left ENP a couple of months back, but has returned to finish this adventure for us and to make sure the saga gets a grand send-off).  He's been working on the manuscript for the last couple of weeks.  He's trying to tie in every loose end, ally, enemy, etc. from the entire saga in an epic finish.  So you can expect to see the return of many familiar and not-so-familiar characters.

As I mentioned before, we're tying all that in to a grand battle arc, where pretty much everyone in WotBS you've ever met is on the battlefield.  Think the epic battles from LotR and then think... bigger!

At the same time (this isn't taking time out of #12), we're working on the big 3.5 colour hardcover compilation, and putting plans for the 4E compilation in place.

It may seem quiet, but there's *craploads* of work going on right now.   It's like a duck, serene on top, but furiously paddling beneath the water.  I promise you, it's gonna be good.

doppelganger - are you sure?  Because the final thing is going to be really good.  If you *really* want the earlier draft, then fair enough, but I'd strongly recommend waiting for the super-duper product!


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## Morrus

meomwt said:


> Of course, should help be required to write it, I can be found easily...




It's not on the agenda... but if someone were to send me a one-page proposal/treatment I liked, I might be interested in hiring someone...


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## DItheringFool

It sounds like it's going to be great and you guys have been real busy...but could you please give an indication on when?  A month? Two months? Christmas?


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## Morrus

Oh, _long, long_, before Xmas!  Sometime in September is my best guess (it's approaching the end of August now).


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## Rugult

Morrus said:


> Oh, _long, long_, before Xmas!  Sometime in September is my best guess (it's approaching the end of August now).




Thanks for the update Morrus, it's good to know where things are at.  

I'm also glad to see that Mr. Nock is back, it means that this last adventure should be a really quality experience.

Anywho, keep up the good work!


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## Verequus

Morrus said:


> At the same time (this isn't taking time out of #12), we're working on the big 3.5 colour hardcover compilation, and putting plans for the 4E compilation in place.




Did I miss the announcement for the 4e compilation somehow? I thought that you wouldn't want to give up the 3E market - or did you manage to make a special deal? Possibly with the updated GSL?


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## Morrus

Verequus said:


> Did I miss the announcement for the 4e compilation somehow?




Nope - there hasn't been one.  Yet...



> I thought that you wouldn't want to give up the 3E market - or did you manage to make a special deal? Possibly with the updated GSL?




I have... hopes... for the revised GSL.  Can't say any more than that!

But you're right in that we do not intend to give up the 3.5 version.


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## amethal

Morrus said:


> Well, Ryan Nock has now joined the "WotBS #12 team" (as you may recall, he left ENP a couple of months back, but has returned to finish this adventure for us and to make sure the saga gets a grand send-off).



Was there an announcement or something that I missed? I guessed he'd left the team only because he wasn't posting on this forum any more.

Glad to hear things are on track, and don't rush it on my account. My PCs are still chasing Rhuarc through the lost city.


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## Morrus

amethal said:


> Was there an announcement or something that I missed?




Nope!


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## RangerWickett

amethal said:


> My PCs are still chasing Rhuarc through the lost city.




And we're eager to hear about it.


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## Rugult

Indeed, that fight was also one of my favorites in the campaign!


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## zorak_zoran

I'm glad you are still working on it. We just finished part 3 and I look forward to running part 4 soon. I like 3.5 rules and hope that a few more tidbits fall out in that rule set. BTW, the more I run the games and read ahead, the more I like the setting, countries and NPCs. Thanks for the great job.


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## doppelganger

September has passed us by and there is still no twelfth adventure. Is there a better delivery time estimate available?

I saw that WotBS is now listed for sale at Paizo's website. That is a very cool thing to see. Kudos!


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## Rugult

Keeping in mind that Ryan Nock just recently came back to the project to help finish it, and that Morrus has stated it's going to be quite epic and filled with lots of epic battles / war...  I can see it being a wii bit longer.

Being the GM who I believe is the furthest in the path (unless someone has secretly beat adventure 9 without posting here), I can still hold off a bit longer for something to end the campaign with a bang.


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## Morrus

We're honestly very nearly there, I promise!  I'll post some art from it soon, but as a little sneak peek, here's one encounter from the advanture.  

This is_ not yet edited _- it's from a couple of weeks back.


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## Morrus

We have a couple of maps to show you, too.  There are a load more.  Note: spoilers.


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## SolitonMan

Harcover compilation, you say?  And where might I be able to acquire that?     Once it's released, of course!  And if one needs to pre-order to help production estimates, I'd be happy to sign on for that.  Please post a link here, if one is available.


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## Morrus

SolitonMan said:


> Harcover compilation, you say?  And where might I be able to acquire that?     Once it's released, of course!  And if one needs to pre-order to help production estimates, I'd be happy to sign on for that.  Please post a link here, if one is available.




It's not finished yet - we've gotten about as far as #8 plus the two guides so far.  So it's two-thirds done, and looking _gorgeous_!

WotBS #12 will come out first (obviously - wouldn't be much of a compilation if WotBS #12 wasn't in it!  ), then the hardcover will be a few weeks after that.  

The hardcover is going to be _hideously_ expensive, though...


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## SolitonMan

Morrus said:


> It's not finished yet - we've gotten about as far as #8 plus the two guides so far.  So it's two-thirds done, and looking _gorgeous_!
> 
> WotBS #12 will come out first (obviously - wouldn't be much of a compilation if WotBS #12 wasn't in it!  ), then the hardcover will be a few weeks after that.
> 
> The hardcover is going to be _hideously_ expensive, though...




How hideous?  Shackled City HC hideous (~$50 US)?  Rappan Athuk Reloaded hideous (~$75 US)?  Ptolus hideous (~$120 US)?  More?

Honestly, I've not even read through the first adventure yet.  I don't always buy things because I want to use them in any near term fashion...sometimes it's just about encouraging this sort of mischief in general...   Just check out my sig...

Anyway, I'll be interested regardless of price, I'll just adjust my gaming budget to deal.


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## Morrus

SolitonMan said:


> How hideous?  Shackled City HC hideous (~$50 US)?  Rappan Athuk Reloaded hideous (~$75 US)?  Ptolus hideous (~$120 US)?  More?




Ptolus ++.

It'll be much, much bigger than SC and RAR.  About Ptolus size (how many pages does Ptolus have?  We're looking at 800).  But as ours is Print-on-Demand, the printing costs are much hgher.


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## meomwt

Good stuff. I'm salivating already...

Do you need more Overseers so that the work gets done faster?


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