# A non white male middle class British Doctor?



## Morrus (Oct 10, 2012)

Moffat famously wrote the hilarious _Curse of the Fatal Death_, which starred Rowan Atkinson, Richard E Grant, Hugh Grant, Jonathan Pryce and Joanna Lumley. If you're a Who fan and you've never seen this, you should - technically it was Moffat's first Who script!

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Do-wDPoC6GM"]Rowan Atkinson is Doctor Who - Classic Comic Relief - YouTube[/ame]​ 


One thing that's been fairly constant about The Doctor is that he's always been:

White
Male
Middle-class*
British
Interestingly his age has been all over the place; I prefer him a bit older than Matt Smith
*Note that this is just an adjective encompassing mannerisms, accent, dress, and behaviour - I don't mean it to describe an actual class system.

The middle-class bit might be slightly arguable (Eccleston played him slightly working-class, although the actor himself is pretty middle-class despite his accent).

So which of these aspects would you be willing to change?



For me:

White - don't care either way. I was hoping Patterson Joseph would get the role before we found out Matt Smith got it.
Male - I think changing his gender might be a little too much of a stretch for me.
Middle-class - images of Ray Winstone playing The Doctor fill me with joy. Now THAT would be fun! _"Put yer traahsers on sunshine; yer nicked! Oh, and I'm The Doctor!"_
British - I couldn't compromise on that one. I know Batman and Superman are British, Robin Hood's been American and Australian, Bond has been Australian and Irish, and so on and so on. So I know it can happen and sometimes it can work, but I'm still completely against the idea of a non-British Doctor.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 10, 2012)

I believe Sean Connery qualifies as a Scottish James Bond.

As for the Doctor, so long as the character works, I don't care. I'm just glad he finally got a NuWho companion who can say "Something" instead of "Sump-fink".


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## Morrus (Oct 10, 2012)

sabrinathecat said:


> I believe Sean Connery qualifies as a Scottish James Bond.




And Tennant's a Scottish Doctor - the Scottish are British, though, so it's all fine.



> As for the Doctor, so long as the character works, I don't care. I'm just glad he finally got a NuWho companion who can say "Something" instead of "Sump-fink".




You'd hate me, then!


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 10, 2012)

Morrus said:


> And Tennant's a Scottish Doctor - the Scottish are British, though, so it's all fine.
> 
> 
> 
> You'd hate me, then!




I dare you to say that on the streets of Glasgow!

After 2 years of Rose and her mother, followed by Martha Jones, Donna was a welcome relief.


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## Morrus (Oct 10, 2012)

sabrinathecat said:


> I dare you to say that on the streets of Glasgow.




What, sumfink?


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## Cor Azer (Oct 10, 2012)

With a good script, any of them could be changed successfully.

That said, I'd be least receptive to losing the British part.


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## Umbran (Oct 10, 2012)

White - I very much don't care.  The whole point is that his appearance changes!

Male - I, too, find that changing the character's gender would be a stretch.  I think, with just the right actress, writers, and directors it could still be done successfully, but this is the most difficult of the one on the list, to me, and I'd be skeptical until I saw the results.

Middle-class - To my American eye, William Hartnell and Jon Pertwee weren't too middle, but I certainly miss some of the detailed cultural cues.  I think he could be played anywhere on the spectrum.

British - I don't care where the actor is from.  However, changing the character - so, say he's a New Yorker, or a Texan, or from New Delhi - well, I suppose it could be done.  But why?


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 10, 2012)

The only thing I would find a stretch is the gender change, but give me a nifty enough explanation and I'm on board.


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## Dioltach (Oct 10, 2012)

[Male chauvinist pig]But surely if the Doctor were female, she'd be the Nurse?[/male chauvinist pig]


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## Umbran (Oct 10, 2012)

Viking Bastard said:


> The only thing I would find a stretch is the gender change, but give me a nifty enough explanation and I'm on board.




For me, it isn't so much the explanation, as the execution and characterization.


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## Herschel (Oct 10, 2012)

If done well, they could probably pull off anyone who can do a decent Brit accent.


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## SLOTHmaster (Oct 10, 2012)

It's already been established that Time Lords can change gender when they regenerate so I'd be fine with that. I could also go with different race or region, though the show might lose some of its Britishness.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 10, 2012)

Personally, I'd love to see the next transition go chaotic for an episode or two.

By that I mean that- for some reason- he regenerates, but his form is unstable, and he continues to change his physical form every...15m to 1 hour of in workd story time.

That way, you get to see a bunch of likely & unlikely sorts- Bill Bailey, Kenneth Brannagh, Helen Mirren, Brian May, Ardal O'Hanlon, Idris Elba- in the role if only for a few minutes of screen time until his regeneration stabilizes.

Could be _AWESOME_!

Imagine- Bill Bailey could become the Doctor after the Helen Mirren Doctor goes into a large public rest room...


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## Dioltach (Oct 10, 2012)

Thinking along the lines of Bill Bailey, Dylan Moran would make a fantastic Doctor.


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## Mark CMG (Oct 10, 2012)

I was cool with the idea of Judi Dench as a Doctor incarnation well before that became a meme but I've also put forth Thandie Newton as a possible candidate.  She'd be English, Middle class-esque, and right around 40 years of age, plus cute as a button, and her eyes have an air of mystery and cleverness about them.  I'd be quite keen to see that.


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## Richards (Oct 10, 2012)

To me, the Doctor needs to remain a white British male - anything else is straying too far from "core" for my interests.

Middle class, though, I don't really care - I don't consider Pertwee's Doctor to have been middle class.  That said, I'd prefer the Doctor to be middle class or higher, not lower.  (Although Troughton's Doctor, the "cosmic hobo," could be construed to have been lower class, and I enjoyed what I saw of his run.)

Johnathan


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## SLOTHmaster (Oct 10, 2012)

Steven Moffat Hints Once Again That The Next Doctor Could Be Female | Giant Freakin Robot


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## Rel (Oct 10, 2012)

Herschel said:


> If done well, they could probably pull off anyone who can do a decent Brit accent.




Pip pip!  Cheerio!






IANAD


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## JRRNeiklot (Oct 11, 2012)

Richards said:


> To me, the Doctor needs to remain a white British male - anything else is straying too far from "core" for my interests.




Agreed.  I'd no more want to see a black (or hispanic or whomever) doctor than I would a white Shaft*.


* Any euphemisms are strictly coincidental.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 11, 2012)

BFP had 8 stories of Doctor Who Unbound, which were alternate ideas
What if the Doctor had never left Gallifrey?
What if the Doctor was not the Renegade Timelord imprisioned on 20th century earth?
What if The Doctor committed a totally immoral crime?
What if the Valeyard had been the one to escape from the Matrix after the trial?

And, finally, the relevant point: What if the Doctor had regenerated into a woman. This was done as a comedy, and is the worst product I've run into of the entire Big Finish line. The Female doctor, to hide from the Timelords, works at a Tescos grocery, gets drunk, and vomits. Repeatedly. Repeatedly. And once again. The sonic screwdriver is used to help pensioners get their coins out of jammed trolley cart locks.

That said, I like the idea of the unstable regeneration running through multiple actors/bodies. After all, Romana got to try several possibilities.


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## Morrus (Oct 11, 2012)

I predict a black Doctor either next, or the one after.  I do not predict a female Doctor any time soon, unless as a short gimmick within an episode.  I don't think we'll ever see a non-British Doctor.


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 11, 2012)

I get the feeling that the Doctor being british is more crucial to non-brits than brits.



Umbran said:


> For me, it isn't so much the explanation, as the execution and characterization.




In any Doctor change I expect them to keep true to the character. This is as true of him regenerating into a black man, a woman or an Australian. But for him turning female, I would also require some kind of an explanation. I'm open to handwaving, though.


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## Morrus (Oct 11, 2012)

Viking Bastard said:


> But for him turning female, I would also require some kind of an explanation. I'm open to handwaving, though.




What sort of an explanation?  Timelord regenerations are established as being able to change gender.  What more explanation would you need?


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 11, 2012)

Morrus said:


> What sort of an explanation?  Timelord regenerations are established as being able to change gender.  What more explanation would you need?




Why hasn't it happened until now?


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## Morrus (Oct 11, 2012)

Viking Bastard said:


> Why hasn't it happened until now?




It has.  The Corsair mentioned in _The Doctor's Wife_ changed gender. 

Romana's regeneration sequence where she "tried on" various bodies additionally suggests that sometimes a Time Lord can choose his/her forum. In a Sarah Jane Adventures episode, Matt Smith's Doctor confirmed to Clive that he could regenerate into anything.  Melody Pond is evidence of skin colour changes (she was white, then black, then white again).

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_9D-2HJMD9s]The Doctor can regenerate 507 times - Sarah Jane Adventures - YouTube[/ame]​


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 11, 2012)

Morrus said:


> It has.  The Corsair mentioned in _The Doctor's Wife_ changed gender.




Yes. You misunderstand: Why hasn't _the Doctor_ switched genders until now?


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## Morrus (Oct 11, 2012)

Viking Bastard said:


> Yes. You misunderstand: Why hasn't _the Doctor_ switched genders until now?




Because the BBC suspected that the viewers didn't want him to. I wouldn't try to find any deeper reason than that!  Times change, though.

He can; he just hasn't.


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 11, 2012)

Morrus said:


> Because the BBC suspected that the viewers didn't want him to.  I wouldn't try to find any deeper reason than that!




That's the meta reason, of course.



> He can; he just hasn't.




Like I said, I'm OK with handwaving. Like that one with the regenerations.


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## Tonguez (Oct 11, 2012)

Viking Bastard said:


> Yes. You misunderstand: Why hasn't _the Doctor_ switched genders until now?




If I were to develop an ic rationale I'd make it something of a personality issue, the Doctor's id is a white British male.

While I could go with a transitional female form I wouldn't be keen on permanently female doctor simply because it would change the personality, but then I'd get over it and consign Doctor Her to the same space as Colin Baker


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 11, 2012)

Also, during his trial, the second doctor was allowed to choose his new form.
"I've never seen such a collection of incredible characters."


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## trancejeremy (Oct 11, 2012)

I've always thought the Cat from Red Dwarf would make a great doctor. He'd be like another Jon Pertwee.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 11, 2012)

trancejeremy said:


> I've always thought the Cat from Red Dwarf would make a great doctor. He'd be like another Jon Pertwee.



I'm going to eat you little dalek.
yes I'm going to eat you little dalek
I'm going to eat you little dalek
Cause I love eating daleks.

hmmm

You can't have my shiney thing!
This is my shiney thing.
_You don't know what it is, do you?_
It does two important things. First, it opens any door. And second, it lights up and makes a humming noise!

no...

Great Balls of Fire! Do you know what that is, Jo?
_No, Doctor, what?_
Fish. Today's fish. It smells like... Yes, Trout ala Creme'. What's more, it is delicious. Ah! Too slow, Trout ala Creme'. Too slow for this Doctor.

doesn't seem quite right...

Get down!
_Doctor, what is it?_
I don't know, buy my nasal hairs are twitching and my nostrils are flaring. Whatever it is, it can't be good.
_Could you have made a miss-smelling?_
No, something is definately bad, and it's coming from that corridor.
_The one that says "rubbish bins"?_


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 11, 2012)

Danny John Jules would rock.

So would Richard Coyle.


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## Mark CMG (Oct 11, 2012)

Well, the Doctor really felt bad for the self-sacrifice of Oswin, played by Jenna-Louise Coleman.  And since we know she is slated to come back on the show, perhaps the information they've been giving about here return isn't altogether truthful.  Maybe she'll be the next Doctor.  Sort of like how Romana took the form of Princess Astra as her final form and hence how they brought Lalla Ward back as a Time Lord when Mary Tamm left the show.


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## jonesy (Oct 11, 2012)

"Hello, yes, I _am_ The Doctor. Would you like a sesame cake? They are very good."


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## delericho (Oct 11, 2012)

Morrus said:


> One thing that's been fairly constant about The Doctor is that he's always been:
> 
> White
> Male
> ...




To be perfectly honest, I like The Doctor as-is, and would prefer they change none of the above.

That said, I don't consider any of them to be deal-breakers as such; it would depend entirely on how it was dealt with.



Mark CMG said:


> I've also put forth Thandie Newton as a possible candidate.  She'd be English, Middle class-esque, and right around 40 years of age, plus cute as a button, and her eyes have an air of mystery and cleverness about them.  I'd be quite keen to see that.




No thanks! Frankly, I'm hard pressed to think of a single role I haven't disliked her in. Heck, in "How to Lose Friends and Alienate People" she appears as herself and _still_ isn't convincing.


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## Herschel (Oct 11, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> So would Richard Coyle.




Coyle was good in "Coupling" but I'd guess he'd likely approach the role pretty similarly to Smith. Jack Davenport could be interesting, but I'm not feeling it there. I put him in the same category as Mathew McFadyen: guys I like but don't think would fit the role very well. 

Rupert Penry-Jones might be good, and maybe David Oyelowo.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 11, 2012)

Richard Coyle was pretty good in the supernatural drama Strange, too- I bet he could handle it.


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## Eridanis (Oct 11, 2012)

Heck, make the Doctor a Silurian next time. THAT'LL get the Internet talking!


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## Herschel (Oct 11, 2012)

Branwell Donaghey or Domhnall Gleeson might be good. The Doctor could finally be a Ginger. 

Actually, if they wanted to go with a relatively little-known actor, Billy Carter (currently in Titanic: Blood & Steel NOT Jimmy's dead brother ) might be interesting.


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## Morrus (Oct 11, 2012)

I've never heard of any of them!


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## Herschel (Oct 11, 2012)

While I don't think it would happen I would love to see a mulit-generational Doctor with Sean Pertwee in the role. He's an actor (like Kevin McKidd) I really like even in crap movies (like Dog Soldiers).


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## Silverblade The Ench (Oct 11, 2012)

Herschel said:


> While I don't think it would happen I would love to see a mulit-generational Doctor with Sean Pertwee in the role. He's an actor (like Kevin McKidd) I really like even in crap movies (like Dog Soldiers).




YEah he'd be good! 
Would love to see a "Scottish" Doctor (as in accent)
but you have also made me think now of...Titus Pullo (Ray Stevenson) as the Doctor!
"_THIRTEEN! THIRTEEN!"_

yeah, smakcing Daleks with shields! 
actually...he'd make a bloody awesome Absalom Daak!!
lot of fans have long wanted Absalom in the TV show (he's a Dalek killing maniac, the person the Daleks fear the most after the Doctor, for those who don't know)


and yes, We Northern Gaels (skirt wearing neanderthal haggis humpers) do tend to consider ourselves "Scottish", rather than "British"  Blame Jimmy Hill and other BBC sports announcers, lol!
And the streets fo Glasgow would make an ideal post apocalypse setting for Dr WHo, hell they alredy have used them for World War Z and there's no shortage of mutants around here, who needs special effects, eh?


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## Plane Sailing (Oct 12, 2012)

Morrus said:


> White
> Male
> *Middle-class**
> British
> Interestingly his age has been all over the place; I prefer him a bit older than Matt Smith




What about Christopher Ecceleston? He always struck me as being a working class northerner Doctor

Personally I'd be happiest with some variation on white male british doctor. I don't care about class or age, but those things I'd like to stay consistent... it still gives a huge range of interesting to choose from.

Cheers


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## Morrus (Oct 12, 2012)

Plane Sailing said:


> What about Christopher Ecceleston? He always struck me as being a working class northerner Doctor




I guess the Northern accent and the leather jacket kinda imply that, yeah. Well - the laether jacket, anyway - I'm sure there are middle class people ooop north.


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## Kaodi (Oct 12, 2012)

Donald Glover for Doctor Who.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 12, 2012)

Pee.

Wee.

Herman.


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## Tonguez (Oct 12, 2012)

Plane Sailing said:


> What about Christopher Ecceleston? He always struck me as being a working class northerner Doctor
> Cheers




Yeah Ecceleston, Troughton and maybe McCoy might pass as working class and Davison might pass as upper class


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## Mathew_Freeman (Oct 12, 2012)

Some friends and I had a running joke a few years back that Whoopi Goldberg would make a fantastic Doctor. Plus, the added bonus of watching bits of the Internet explode in fan-rage. 

Other than that I'm totally open to anyone playing the Doctor. So long as they're good at it, and get decent scripts to work with, then I think it can be done.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 12, 2012)

Well, Anthony Ainley was certainly an Upper Class Master. He went into acting because he liked it, and could cherry-pick his roles.


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## RedShirtNo5.1 (Oct 12, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> That way, you get to see a bunch of likely & unlikely sorts- Bill Bailey, Kenneth Brannagh, Helen Mirren, Brian May, Ardal O'Hanlon, Idris Elba- in the role if only for a few minutes of screen time until his regeneration stabilizes.



You could go for in-jokes, like having Scott Baluka, Michael J. Fox and Keanu Reeves show up.


To me the most important feature is that the Doctor is British.  Age, skin color and social class don't seem important.  

I think even a female Doctor could work.  There are handwaves as to why it didn't happen.
-The ability to change gender on regeneration depends on a gene in the Timelord population, which the Doctor did not have.  However, due to applied phlebotinum the Doctor just got that gene.
-An unexpected regeneration tends to default to small changes in body type, whereas a deliberate regeneration isn't so limited.
-"I could have regenerated as female before, but I was worried that it would have bothered my previous companions."


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## Mark CMG (Oct 12, 2012)

Along the lines of thinking English (maybe expanded to British) as the main "keeper" but adding in the idea that it helps to keep the Doctor _of a certain age_, then I'll point out that Saffron Burrows turns 40 later this month.  Technically, she became an American citizen a few years ago, but she was born in London and works in both film and television.  She is also six-foot tall, which might not be an obvious factor but in any casting choice away from the traditional it might also be wise to take it into account as helping any choice seem more comanding when required.

A tad older yet, Julia Ormond might also be someone to consider if going in a female Doctor direction. I wonder sometimes if someone with a decent career might avoid certain television opportunities but I think being the first female and/or non-white Doctor makes that a tempting prospect for anyone.  It would seem like a role, also, where one could contract to do it for just one season since the very conceit that allows you to play the role also allows you to leave it.

Someone mentioned Donald Glover up thread, jokingly, I assume having to do with Inspector Spacetime and it got me thinking about Danny Pudi (Chicago-born) when my mind shifted toward wanting to ask a question of Morrus or other Brits.  There must be a fair number of Indian Brits, even many born in England, currently on the BBC in many programs and in Brit movies, are any of them someone who might be considered for the role of the Doctor?  Someone like Amara Karan who was in The God Complex episode last year might be too young but maybe someone else?


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## GMforPowergamers (Oct 13, 2012)

I want an eapisode with Capt Jackand Dr River Song talking about him regening as a woman... but I think it would have to air late night on HBO


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## Kaodi (Oct 13, 2012)

Mark CMG said:


> Someone mentioned Donald Glover up thread, jokingly, I assume having to do with Inspector Spacetime...




No idea what Inspector Spacetime is. 'Twas a Spider-Man reference,  ; in response to the "white Shaft" reference further up thread.


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## Mark CMG (Oct 13, 2012)

Inspector Spacetime, a Doctor Who parody, became a running gag on Community when the geeky character Abed was introduced to it as an aside during one episode.


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sZqv0j8Nfr8]Community - Inspector Spacetime [Doctor Who Parody] - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5I9yS8G8G9o]Inspector Spacetime Theme and Opening Credits - YouTube[/ame]


[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bfvm0j0eN0Y]Community - Inspector Spacetime (Abed and Troy) - YouTube[/ame]


[ame]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BtEW3dAAF7M[/ame]


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