# Stuck in a Time Warp!



## CharlesRyan (Dec 12, 2002)

In the thread titled "Is something wrong?," someone complained that it appeared to him that there were no new threads in his favorite forum since December 8th.

I have this problem all the time: I go to a forum, and what shows up on my screen is a snapshot of what the forum looked like several days ago. Currently (Dec 12th), the topmost forum directory is stuck on December 3rd, and has been since, well, Dec. 3rd. Every time I go there, I see the threads as they appeared at 11:30 AM, Dec. 3rd. Heck, in the upper right corner of the screen, it tells me that the time is now 11:30 AM, Dec. 3rd.

Other fora and ENworld pages are stuck in different time zones. For example, the ENworld front page is stuck on December 5th. So is the General RPG Discussion board directory.

Now, I'm posting this message for two reasons: because I'd like to have this fixed, and to offer a workaround for others with this problem.

First, getting it fixed. Apparently, this isn't too common a problem (otherwise nobody would ever use these boards), but it does seem to happen a lot. I work at WotC, and virtually everyone I've spoken with here at WotC has had the problem on occasion (if not constantly). It came up in a conversation with some friends over at Green Ronin; they've had the problem as well. Now I come and check the Meta boards, and the first thread I open describes the same problem. Clearly, it's pretty widespread.

I emailed Morrus about it a couple of months ago, and he recommended some possible solutions at my end. I'd tried most of them already, but I gave it another shot: purging cookies, purging the cache, disabling cookies, force-refreshing, etc. Some of these steps worked--once. (That is, they caused the page to load the current date--but then, the page was stuck on that date when I checked it later. . . .) But it's become clear to me that this is a server problem, not a client problem.

Next: The workaround. To get a page to show you its current version, go to it via a link you've never used before. For example, to get to the current version of the "D20 System & OGL Games" forum, open a thread you've never read before (it doesn't matter what forum you're in, just as long as the thread is new to you.) Scroll to the bottom of the thread, where you'll find the Forum Jump pull-down menu. Select "D20 System & OGL Games," and it should take you to the current version of that page.

Hope that helps. I look forward to a solution, because the workaround is a pain in the butt. Thanks to the ENworld staff for an otherwise great site!


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## EricNoah (Dec 12, 2002)

I suspect that there may be a firewall or proxy issue on your end.  Case in point...

My school district uses a proxy server for internet access.  For some weird reason, our own website appears to be offering old pages -- if you're browsing from within our network.  If we bypass the proxy for our website, suddenly we get the fresh version of the website.  It's darned frustrating!  

Our internal solution is to do the following in Internet Explorer:

Tools -- Internet Options -- Connections -- LAN Settings -- Advanced -- enter the domain you're going to bypass (enworld or cyberstreet.com) under "Exceptions."

Don't know if that will work, your situation may be different.


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## Morrus (Dec 12, 2002)

OK, let's do some detective work.  Everyone with this problem, please post here.  More importantly, please include some details - we can then try and identify the common denominator (have I used that phrase correctly?)

1) What OS do you use?

2) What browsers do you use?

3) What general set-up do you have?  Is it on your home machine, or one on an office network?

4) Anything else you may find relevant.

I myself have never had this problem, and I'm using Windows XP and IE; this is a single machine, not on a network and without any firewalls or anything lime that.


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## EricNoah (Dec 12, 2002)

Also, do you visit via www.enworld.org or via enworld.cyberstreet.com?


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## Piratecat (Dec 12, 2002)

Also, are you on a Mac or a PC?


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## Morrus (Dec 12, 2002)

Also, do you take care to eat a full breakfast every morning?


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## garyh (Dec 12, 2002)

Also, if you do eat a full breakfast, do you brush and floss afterwards?


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 12, 2002)

*System Specifics*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *OK, let's do some detective work.  Everyone with this problem, please post here.  More importantly, please include some details - we can then try and identify the common denominator (have I used that phrase correctly?*




Mac OS 9.1; Netscape 6.1; office network.


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## Andy_Collins (Dec 12, 2002)

I, too, have experienced the problem that Charles is describing. I have yet to determine a pattern to it--some weeks I won't get anything new at all, then the very next day everything will be fine (as it's been all this week).



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *
> 1) What OS do you use?*




Mac OS 9.1



> *2) What browsers do you use?*




Microsoft Internet Explorer 5, Macintosh version



> *3) What general set-up do you have?  Is it on your home machine, or one on an office network?*




Office network



> *4) Anything else you may find relevant.*




Visit via enworld.cyberstreet.com


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## Morrus (Dec 13, 2002)

Hmm... too early to tell yet, but you both have two things in common - you use Macs and are on an office netwrk (presumably the same office network). Let's hope we get some more replies.


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## LrdApoc (Dec 13, 2002)

I have also had the problems on my Mac

1)OsX and OS 9.2.2

2)Using IE 5 or Netscape 4.75(yeah I know it's ancient)

3)Office network is fixed IP to gateway.

Do not have this issue with Pc on my desk with same network setup. My guess is a Mac issue so I try not to read enworld on my Mac.

4) Breakfast.. who has time

5)Brush and floss when I get up, regardless of eating habits.


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## Henry (Dec 13, 2002)

Perhaps we should either put alter the thread name or put out another thread call to all Mac Users of this site, to see if they experience any abnormalities (not suggesting what specifically, but just to see if this is as mac-centric as it seems to be.)

It could well be the Mac version of Internet Explorer - wouldn't be the first time MS has not thoroughly troubleshot a Mac version of their product. (The last version of MS Office comes to mind.)


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## Henry (Dec 13, 2002)

http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;196329&


does this look like the problem you describe?


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## LrdApoc (Dec 13, 2002)

Yes Henry,

In fact once I set my IE not to cache pages it fixed the problem for me.

I still try not to use my Mac to visit the boards. Unfortunately I do most of my scanning/artwork on the macs so whenever I post to the Art threads I have to muddle through.


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## Jeph (Dec 13, 2002)

I occasionally get this problem, but clicking Forum Jump to the appropriate forum clears it up.

1) Mac os X 

2) Internet Explorer 5

3) Home machine, though it's linked to another comp in some networky thingamijigger that uses the phone line.


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 13, 2002)

Henry said:
			
		

> *http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;196329&
> 
> does this look like the problem you describe? *




It looks much like the problem as I experience it, except:

1. I use Netscape, not IE.
2. I have never experienced the problem at any other site, including numerous sites with messageboards.
3. Their suggested fix--using the refresh button--does not work.


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## Alzrius (Dec 16, 2002)

I'm currently studying abroad, and float around between three computer labs on the campus. For some reason I can't seem to figure out, only one of them has this problem. All the machines use Windows NT, and the server is IE 6. The lab with this problem is a network-linked one (which is to say, if you go to a website on one computer, then log in on another on the same lab, it still remembers your site history). Luckily, for me, using the refresh buttons works. Note that another network-linked lab doesn't have this problem however.


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## MadScientist (Dec 16, 2002)

*Me 2*

I'm also experienceing a very similar problem, when using my work computer.

It's Mac OS 9.2
Internet Exploerer 5 Mac Edition
I visit via enworld.cyberstreet.com
My computer is on a University Network

and 

My morning breakfast habits are spotty at best

Simpley refreshing the pages doesn't usually work but pressing the alt button while refreshing brings up the most current page.  The annoying thing is even when I do bring up the most current page often when I go back to the page(by say, pressing the back button) it's old again.


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## Morrus (Dec 16, 2002)

Well, the people with problems all seem to be using Macs on networks.  Not sure if it's the Mac or the network that's causing it, bit since both are present in most cases, I'd guess it's something to do with the way Macs use networks.  I'm also fairly convinced it's a problem at the user's end, not the server's end. 

Now, of course, we need to figure out how to fix it.


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## Quickbeam (Dec 17, 2002)

Previously, the time posted for me at EN World was habitually an hour slow (I'm Eastern/GMT minus 5 hours).  Now, it's four hours slow.

I have a Compag PC operating on Windows 98
Internet Explorer's most recent version through a company network using Novell on a DSL router
I access enworld.cyberstreet.com


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## Blacksway (Dec 17, 2002)

Is this really such a big problem too everyone?


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## Quickbeam (Dec 17, 2002)

Blacksway said:
			
		

> *Is this really such a big problem too everyone?
> 
> 
> *




Nope.  And as of now, it appears to be fixed for me.


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## Nikchick (Dec 18, 2002)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Well, the people with problems all seem to be using Macs on networks.  Not sure if it's the Mac or the network that's causing it, bit since both are present in most cases, I'd guess it's something to do with the way Macs use networks.  I'm also fairly convinced it's a problem at the user's end, not the server's end.
> 
> Now, of course, we need to figure out how to fix it. *




Stumbled upon this thread and wanted to chime in, I have had the same problem Charles describes.  I posted about it here in the META forum many months ago, and was told to force refresh (which I had to do on *every page* each time I wanted to view a new thread).

I too use a Mac, OS 9.something.  I've tried IE 5, Netscape 4.7, Opera.  I was having the most problems when I was connecting by my DSL connection, which I've got connected to a wireless Airport router. I've been dialing in recvently, and haven't had troubles, but I've also been using the "Jump to Forums" menu at the bottom of the page to navigate, as I found that was a good work around.  Clicking the forum links at the top of the page brought me to days-old threads, but using the menu at the bottom of the page loaded the pages no problem.

 I've never had this happen with any other sites or message boards (Mortality.net, RPG.net, the Green Ronin boards, the WotC boards, Delphi forums).

Nicole


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 18, 2002)

*Mac only?*



			
				Morrus said:
			
		

> *Well, the people with problems all seem to be using Macs on networks.  Not sure if it's the Mac or the network that's causing it, bit since both are present in most cases, I'd guess it's something to do with the way Macs use networks. *




It certainly looks like most of the complaints are from Mac users, but at least one or two PC users also chimed in.


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 18, 2002)

*Completely locked out of d20 System & OGL Games forum*

All of my workarounds have failed. Nothing I do will get me a current view of the d20 System & OGL Games forum. No matter how I navigate there, I can't bring up a more recent version than December 13.

Please find a solution to this problem! As Nicole mentioned, this doesn't occur at any of the many other message board sites I visit regularly--so even if there is a mac- or network-related issue, there's also something unique about ENworld that sets it off!


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## EricNoah (Dec 18, 2002)

Charles, can you give us an example of a forum where you're not having this problem (preferably a vBulletin forum like this one)?  That might help us look at their code and see if there's something different they're doing.  

Also going to suggest to Russ to look at a "No Cache" setting -- which might help but also might crash the server...  We may need to round up mac-using volunteers to test it out if we decide to test this theory...


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 18, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Charles, can you give us an example of a forum where you're not having this problem (preferably a vBulletin forum like this one)? *




I regularly visit boards at the following sites:

WotC
Green Ronin
montecook.com
RPGnet
Gamingreport.com
stannex.com

Hope that helps!


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## EricNoah (Dec 18, 2002)

Gonna post some random notes here:

Our boards are vbulletin.  There are no "no-cache" headers on any part of the forum.  

RPG.net uses vbulletin.  The main page of RPG.net's forums uses the "no-cache" headers.  Sub-forums do not.  

Monte Cook's board is an EZBoard.  Doesn't appear to have a "no-cache" header but does appear to have a special "style sheet" for mac users.

WotC's boards are vbulletin-like probably with major hacks and mods. I checked about 3 forums and they all had "no-cache" headers.

Green Ronin's are a "phpBB" and don't have a "no-cache" header.


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## Pyske (Dec 19, 2002)

As much as I hate suggestion kludges instead of solutions, I'm nt close enough to the situation on this one to do otherwise.

Two possible things to try:

+  In the old days, I think I remember my Mac browser (NN, IIRC) had a difference between Refresh and CTRL + Refesh, with the latter overriding any and all caching.

+  For one critical fix that we didn't have time to hunt for, we once (*shudder*) inserted a random number as a "dummy" parameter.  For example, the URL for this thread would read "http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=537060&r=01001101#post537060".  The r= value would do absolutely nothing and never be read by the server, just regenerated with a new number on every redirect.  UGLY, to be sure, but it seemed to work until we got around to a more elegant fix.

 . . . . . . . -- Eric


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 19, 2002)

*New workaround!*

I've found a new workaround that seems to be much more reliable than the old workarounds--but at a price.

I've set my browser's cache space to 0, and set it to check the cache against the server page every time I visit the page. (In Netscape 6.1: Edit->Preferences->Advanced->Cache; set disk cache to 0, set "Compare the page in the cache to the page on the network:" to "Every time I view the page.") Oh, yeah, I also purged the disk cache. (There's a button for that in the cache preferences.)

I now see the most current version of the page every time I visit. Woo-hoo! However, it drags my surfing time to a crawl--fully loading the d20 System & OGL games forum, for example, takes around 40 seconds. Every time. (Keeping nothing in the cache, the browser has to download every single graphic every time it's used.) And I pay this price not just at ENworld, but at any web site I visit. (Unless I change my preferences back to normal when not at ENworld.)

I offer this info in hopes it might be useful to those investigating the problem (and those suffering from it)--not as a long-term solution. The long delays in download time are very aggravating--but not as aggravating as not seeing the page at all!


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## kreynolds (Dec 19, 2002)

*Re: New workaround!*



			
				CharlesRyan said:
			
		

> *I've found a new workaround that seems to be much more reliable than the old workarounds--but at a price. *




Charles, I've had the same problem on my mac as well (netscape), but your solution also worked for me. Come to think of it, I've had this problem for a few months now, but since my Mac is on my left and I've got a PC on my right, I just hopped over. 

Anyways, this temp fix definately works.


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## Blacksway (Dec 19, 2002)

Time to add the no-cache headers me thinks...


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## EricNoah (Dec 19, 2002)

Ok, I'm going to try it.  *crosses fingers* -- here's hoping it doesn't crash the server...


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## EricNoah (Dec 19, 2002)

Blech, turned that setting back to off.  Could be a coincidence but I experienced a massive slowdown right after "no-cache" option was turned on.  I may try it later when it's not so busy...


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## Henry (Dec 19, 2002)

*Re: New workaround!*



			
				CharlesRyan said:
			
		

> I've found a new workaround that seems to be much more reliable than the old workarounds--but at a price.
> 
> I've set my browser's cache space to 0, and set it to check the cache against the server page every time I visit the page. (In Netscape 6.1: Edit->Preferences->Advanced->Cache; set disk cache to 0, set "Compare the page in the cache to the page on the network:" to "Every time I view the page.") Oh, yeah, I also purged the disk cache. (There's a button for that in the cache preferences.)




Charles, kreynolds, I know you've probably already tried this, but for verification, have you tried to change ONLY the "Compare" settings, leaving the disk cache size alone? If it works, comparison is a fraction of the time compared to grabbing the page new.

It sounds as though Web caching on the Macs in question is using either some sort of limited character comparison, or something else besides checksumming to compare with - but take that as an opinion unfamiliar with macs or netscape.


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## CharlesRyan (Dec 20, 2002)

*Re: Re: New workaround!*



			
				Henry said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Charles, kreynolds, I know you've probably already tried this, but for verification, have you tried to change ONLY the "Compare" settings, leaving the disk cache size alone? If it works, comparison is a fraction of the time compared to grabbing the page new. *




I gave it a try, but it didn't work. Most of the fora I visit are now frozen at 2:03 PM; if I use the old workaround (maneuvering through the Forum Jump menu) I can update them. I'm setting my cache back to 0; looks like I'm stuck with that solution for the time being. . . .


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## Fast Learner (Dec 23, 2002)

An old web programmer's trick is to put "something@" before the url. For example you could put "bubba@enworld.cyberstreet.com". Your browser will think that this is a different page than "enworld.cyberstreet.com" and so will not use the cache.

The only trick is that you need to come up with a new word every time.  Still, it should work perfectly.


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## Quartermoon (Dec 30, 2002)

*Re: New workaround!*

Hi!

Mac OS 8.6, Netscape 6, home dial-up (no firewall, network, blah blah)

I've had this problem ever since the switch to the new boards last year.  (Just ask Piratecat!)  The worst what when I would post a reply, and it would send me back to the end of the topic, but my post wouldn't show!  )I had a rather thorough chat with a guy at vBulletin about it, and he was pretty clear that it's not them...but could never really address why it doesn't happen anywhere else that uses vB.  I think the dialogue is on ther help forum somewhere...



			
				CharlesRyan said:
			
		

> *I've set my browser's cache space to 0, and set it to check the cache against the server page every time I visit the page.*




This is essentially how I solved the problem, but I left the "check cache against server" to "Automatically."  At least in my version, Netscape differentiates between _memory_ cache, which it keeps in current memory during a single browsing session, and _disc_ cache, which it stores on your hard drive.  So just setting the disc cache to 0 prevents the cache from your last session from being kept.

This means that, yes, the first time a page loads, it takes a while, but it's still in memory if you go back to it---yes, this is a problem here in these boards, but not anywhere else, so I find it a good compromise.  I then go ahead and use the usual work-arounds to ensure I get the freshest page here when I have a problem (which isn't as often anymore...go figure).

The only thing that really gets to me is that before the move, this never happened.  So _something_ changed _somewhere,_ but who knows if we will ever find it.

BTW, if you look really, really, really close, you can tell that Hacker Kulp is using a Mac.  I blame him.


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## Piratecat (Dec 31, 2002)

_Everyone_ blames me.  sheesh.


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## CharlesRyan (Jan 6, 2003)

*Any news?*

Any progress on this issue? I'm still using the no-cache workaround, and it still works, but sheesh is it sloooowwww. . .


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## Nikchick (Jan 6, 2003)

Charles,

Over Christmas we got the "big mac" hooked up to the DSL through the home network again and I've been able to browse successfully without the time warp problem.  I was sick in bed for a lot of December, and we rejigged things to get the airport and iBook working again (I'd been dialing in for weeks prior to that), and mysteriously everything worked just as it should.

Have you considered sacrificing a chicken?  I swear, whether my computer works or not is all voodoo.

Good luck, I've definitely felt your pain.  I hope not to be stuck in a time warp again in 2003!

Nicole


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## EricNoah (Jan 9, 2003)

Frankly I think we're all stumped.  I currently have no ideas about how to proceed on this matter.


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## mythusmage (Jan 9, 2003)

*Adding My Bit*

OS: Mac 9.2.2 (I'd update to Jaguar, but I don't have the physical RAM)

Browser: iCab 2.8 (the only one that's reliable on this machine)

Connection: dial-up (people  see cable and DSL as premium services, so they price it out of my reach)

My Problem: The page listing the forums is the one that doesn't auto-update. All other pages do. So I hit "reload" and go on.

(Contributions to "Let's Get Alan a New Mac" can be made at Mythusmage . Please use the Amazon.com button instead of the PayPal one, I don't trust Paypal (and really should get rid of the button).)

To Charles and those having his problem: Check with Netscape to see if they might have a solution/work-around. Or, go to the iCab (Mac only) and/or Opera (Mac and PC) pages and download either or both of those browsers and see how they work. You can get free versions of either.

Hope this helps


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## LightPhoenix (Jan 16, 2003)

I don't know about Macs, but this is something that could be investigated.  In IE, IIRC when you hold down Shift and hit Refresh, it forces the page to reload from the server.  Maybe there's something similar for Macs?


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## Nikchick (Jan 17, 2003)

FYI, folks, I'm stuck in the time warp again.

After several weeks of blissful browsing, EN World is once again refusing to refresh my view.  I get notices that someone has posted in a thread, but when I click on the link to take me to the new posts, I only see the old posts.

Has anyone been tinkering with anything in the background in the last day or so?  Nothing about my configuration on my end has changed, and it's utterly bizarre that it's popped up again all of a sudden.

This makes me a sad panda.   

Nicole


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## Olive (Jan 30, 2003)

it's definitely a mac problem... or perhaps a mac on networks problem. at university i have to empty the cache then refresh. simple refresh doesn't work. another friend (mostly lurker) who uses a mac at school has the same issue. using a pc at school in my office, no such problem.

when i was freelancing i was using macs and the same issue happened.

my lurker friend uses a mac at home as well, but i'm not sure if he has the same issues. FYI, it was OS9.1 in all cases, and IE (not sure which ver)


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## Quickbeam (Feb 1, 2003)

Just an interesting FYI...while the clock settings were "fixed" from where I stood (IOW, they matched reality for awhile), they're back to being about 10-15 minutes off again.  How peculiar.


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## Lela (Feb 1, 2003)

Quickbeam said:
			
		

> *Just an interesting FYI...while the clock settings were "fixed" from where I stood (IOW, they matched reality for awhile), they're back to being about 10-15 minutes off again.  How peculiar. *




Yeah, they seem to be ahead by about that much for me.  As in traveling to the future this time.

PC Win 98 SE

IE (6.x)


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## DDK (Feb 2, 2003)

Morrus said:
			
		

> *Well, the people with problems all seem to be using Macs on networks.  Not sure if it's the Mac or the network that's causing it, bit since both are present in most cases, I'd guess it's something to do with the way Macs use networks.  I'm also fairly convinced it's a problem at the user's end, not the server's end. *



Grr...



			
				CharlesRyan said:
			
		

> *It certainly looks like most of the complaints are from Mac users, but at least one or two PC users also chimed in. *



Double grr...

Ok... BREATHE... 1, 2, 9, 10!

I count just as many people using IE as using Macs with the problem... why is it everyone always jumps on the Mac and pounds it to pieces whenever there is a slight problem? With no actual knowledge of the cause of the proble, given these two alternatives, I would choose Microsoft as the cause over Apple ANY SECOND OF ANY DAY OF ANY WEEK!

I'm not surprised though. Microsoft could put out shonky software that crashes all the time, requires excessive amounts of RAM, utilizes twenty year old code on twenty year old technology, requires excessive amounts of HDD space, is unintuitive, has annoying little animations that popup all the time asking you if you're writing a letter AND invade your privacy AND practice illegal business tactics AND...

Oh... wait a minute... they already do that... and everybody just keeps on buying and laying crap on the Mac.



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *OS: Mac 9.2.2 (I'd update to Jaguar, but I don't have the physical RAM)
> 
> Browser: iCab 2.8 (the only one that's reliable on this machine)*




OS 9x is crud and the only reason it should be used is as a bridging OS for Classic apps in OS X. After all, that's what it was designed for and why it takes huge amounts of RAM to run.

Trust me, you're SO much better off with 8.6 unless you're planning on running OS X on a G4.

And iCab is at 2.9 now. Guess what? He changed the way pages load and I had this exact same problem as the above people. But then I also had my cache set to 20MB. Setting it to 1mb got rid of the problem instantly. I would say this is a cache problem, most particularly a cache problem on Intermittant Exploder for the Mac, not a Mac problem.


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## Lela (Feb 2, 2003)

Fourecks said:
			
		

> *
> I would say this is a cache problem, most particularly a cache problem on Intermittant Exploder for the Mac, not a Mac problem. *




Um, from the first half of page 1:



			
				Henry said:
			
		

> *http://support.microsoft.com/default.aspx?scid=KB;en-us;196329&
> 
> 
> does this look like the problem you describe? *





So, yes.  It's Microsoft's fault.

I would like to point out that I blame Microsoft for everything anyway and knew all along.


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## Quickbeam (Feb 4, 2003)

Lela said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yeah, they seem to be ahead by about that much for me.  As in traveling to the future this time.
> *




And now the problem has been magically fixed again.  Maybe I should post comments concerning larger problems and hope they're corrected just as easily.


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## CharlesRyan (Feb 4, 2003)

*Probably Not Microsoft's Fault*

Look, I'm as much a mac partisan as the next guy (well, the next mac-using guy that is), but I don't think we can hang this one on Microsoft.

I'm the original complainer here, and I use Netscape. Neither IE nor Microsoft is a factor in the problem, at least as I experience it.


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## Blacksway (Feb 10, 2003)

Just an idea here, but could someone try the following:

a) Set your computer up so you suffer the problem again.
b) Go into user control panel/options and set "Browse board with cookies?" to no.
c) See if this makes any difference. Try closing your browser and restarting and see if the problem is still happening.

Just an idea...


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## Blacksway (Feb 14, 2003)

Anyone any luck with my test?


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## fba827 (Feb 26, 2003)

PREFACE: I have not read all the posts in this thread, merely the starting post and scanned a couple others.


That being said, it sounds like caching.
You may all be familiar with how a web browser caches copies of websites on your local computer (the idea being that it can load static content pages quickly since it only has to pull it off the local machine rather than download every single time you visit said website).  The common fix is to simply to and clear out your cache.

One thing that is emerging the ISP industry is caching software on some of the ISP routers.  It isn't mainstream or widespread, but some places do use it since it cuts down on costs (your computer pulls pages from a cache copy kept on the router rather than needing to go across the internet to retrive everything).

The fix?

If it is being saved as cache on your local computer, empty out your computer's cache.

As an add-on, if you use a windows machine, hold down the Shift key while you click the reload button.  For macs, I believe it is the control key you need to hold down while clicking the reload button.

If we are talking about a cache copy on a your ISP's router, then, unfortunetly it is not as simply as the above two.  That first requires a conversation with your ISP (or system admin, or whomever) and ask if the router (or something) stores cache copies.  If you can confirm that it does, keep the conversation going with the system admin/isp to see if you can request excemption domains to the caching (or perhaps ask them if the frequency that the router's cache gets cleared can be made more frequent).  If they say they do not have caching on the router (or whatever) -- and you know you are talking to someone knowledge enough to actually know the _real_ answer to the question -- then your difficulty can most assuredly be put back to your local computer.  Some software setting or adjustment on there ...

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_Anyway_, this may or may not be the problem at hand, but just offering it as yet another possibility (/possibilities).

PS. My point summarized without my usual ramblings: If it has all the same symptoms of your computer caching but you've already cleared the cache (and you've also already tried the hold down the key and press reload trick) then it could be that your ISP is caching at the router.

Edit: Adding the PS since everything else I said comes off as a ramble


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## DM_Matt (Mar 25, 2003)

I had that problem with Apple's first Public Beta of Safari, but it works great in all later versions therof.


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## Liolel (Apr 23, 2003)

I have mac osx 10.2.5 and experince the trouble on both mozilla, and safaria (latest beta) Only refresh works. My pc appears to work fine.


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## Liolel (Apr 24, 2003)

I manged to fix mozilla by changing it to check against its cache everytime it goes to a page. However I have a strange bug with the mac version of mozilla which causes all the buttons to disapper on enworld which means I still have to use safari to post. Presumbly only I have this problem for I've seen no other posts about it.


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