# The Book of Boba Fett (spoilers)



## Enevhar Aldarion

Alright everyone, first episode releases tonight/tomorrow morning, depending on where you are in the world.

Teasers and trailers have shown a little of what happened to him from falling into the pit to him showing up in The Mandalorian, but how much will we see? Just the aftermath after escaping the Sarlacc? Or the actual escape too? It will take place completely in the 5+ years that passed between RotJ, and Jabba's death, and The Mandalorian, barring flashbacks, but I wonder if the final episode will have a more direct connection to season 3 of The Mandalorian.


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## trappedslider

Well, now we know how he got out of the Sarlacc, punched then burned his way out. Seems he isn't totally healed from his whole ordeal either. 

Is shand's answer to everything "should I kill?"?


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## Zardnaar

Beat me to the thread. 

I liked it a lot. Answered a few questions and raised some more.


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## pukunui

There are only meant to be six episodes, right? I like how we’re essentially getting two stories for the price of one, as it were.

I also like how they’re continuing to give the Tuskens more nuance. This group were dressed somewhat differently, for instance. I expect he’ll earn their respect and become part of their tribe, which will explain why he was dressed (almost) like them and wielding their weapons when he caught up with Mando on Tython.


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## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> There are only meant to be six episodes, right? I like how we’re essentially getting two stories for the price of one, as it were.
> 
> I also like how they’re continuing to give the Tuskens more nuance. This group were dressed somewhat differently, for instance. I expect he’ll earn their respect and become part of their tribe, which will explain why he was dressed (almost) like them and wielding their weapons when he caught up with Mando on Tython.




 Yep it's like they've thought about it in terms of story. Those ghadaffi sticks are based on RL Fijian weapons.


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## MarkB

pukunui said:


> There are only meant to be six episodes, right? I like how we’re essentially getting two stories for the price of one, as it were.
> 
> I also like how they’re continuing to give the Tuskens more nuance. This group were dressed somewhat differently, for instance. I expect he’ll earn their respect and become part of their tribe, which will explain why he was dressed (almost) like them and wielding their weapons when he caught up with Mando on Tython.



I'm guessing their darker cloaks are to tie into how he was dressed when we first see him in The Mandalorian, but it is good to see more variety in the Tuskans.

Letting someone take your helmets away for servicing seems excessively trusting. If they haven't had trackers and listening devices installed I'd be surprised.


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## Aeson

I thought the same thing about the helmets. And what happened to the guards before the ambush? They disappeared. Just disappeared.


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## MarkB

So, in diplomatic terms, the Mayor sending a proxy is clearly a calculated insult, intended to see how far they can push this new crime lord. However, in storytelling terms, it seems like they may be keeping the Mayor's identity from the viewers deliberately, presumably because it's someone we'll immediately recognise. Any guesses as to who?


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## John R Davis

I think I enjoyed it. Nice nostalgia throw backs


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## Rabulias

FYI, there is another thread with more comments: Star Wars - The book of Boba Fett


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## Enevhar Aldarion

edited as unneeded after thread merger


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## Enevhar Aldarion

That was a good first episode and answered a lot of questions without going too in-depth. Seeing just enough of how he got out of the Sarlacc and how the Jawa got his armor was a good start. And despite all you hear about them being Tusken "Raiders", it is humans we see doing the raiding and not the Tuskens. And that raid asks the question of to which group or crime boss does that painted symbol belong? I have not done the spoiler and easter egg readings yet, so I don't know if it is obvious or for a new enemy not yet met.


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## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> Letting someone take your helmets away for servicing seems excessively trusting. If they haven't had trackers and listening devices installed I'd be surprised.



It seemed to me that Fett had some idea as to what was meant, while shand may not have.

Also looks like Mos Espa has a free-running gang.

Fett's comments about ruling through respect instead of fear made me recall Iron man's quote "_Is it better to be feared or respected_?"

I think in Fett's case, part of his choosing to go with Respect (for now) is due to his not being fully healed and avoiding the "New boss same as the old boss" trope


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## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> I think in Fett's case, part of his choosing to go with Respect (for now) is due to his not being fully healed and avoiding the "New boss same as the old boss" trope



We're getting a lot of backstory in this series, it seems, and at least part of it seems to involve Tatooine's criminal gangs (the raid on the moisture farm). I'm thinking Fett's motivation here isn't just "go back somewhere familiar and become someone powerful".

Maybe during his time with the Tuskens he got to really see what the Hutt gangs were doing to everyone else on the planet, and what he's actually trying to do is to take apart these organisations from the top down.


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## Morrus

I've merged the two threads.


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## Morrus

Matt Berry gets everywhere these days!


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## pukunui

Was anyone else thrown by the American accents of the twi'leks in this episode? Most of them tend to have fake French accents (with the only other exception I can think of being Hera). Not really complaining. Just making an observation.


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## MarkB

pukunui said:


> Was anyone else thrown by the American accents of the twi'leks in this episode? Most of them tend to have fake French accents (with the only other exception I can think of being Hera). Not really complaining. Just making an observation.



Actually, I was thrown by the French accents in the Bad Batch episode when they featured Hera's family, because I hadn't particularly associated it with twi'leks before then.


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## Morrus

pukunui said:


> Was anyone else thrown by the American accents of the twi'leks in this episode? Most of them tend to have fake French accents (with the only other exception I can think of being Hera). Not really complaining. Just making an observation.



Haven't really watched the cartoons but what accent did Bib Fortuna have?


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## pukunui

Morrus said:


> Haven't really watched the cartoons but what accent did Bib Fortuna have?



His accent has always been sort of indeterminate. But Ayla Secura’s was French, as was Hera’s dad and pretty much every other twi’lek shown in the movies and cartoons.


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## MarkB

pukunui said:


> His accent has always been sort of indeterminate. But Ayla Secura’s was French, as was Hera’s dad and pretty much every other twi’lek shown in the movies and cartoons.



Sounds like one of those one-off details that got picked up and extrapolated as a universal constant, like how all bounty hunters seal their targets in carbonite because one time there was a carbon-freezing facility on Bespin that was used on someone who, entirely coincidentally, also had a bounty on him.

In any case, we can reasonably assume that there are varied regional accents amongst twi'leks, as there would be in any other race.


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## Kobold Stew

MarkB said:


> So, in diplomatic terms, the Mayor sending a proxy is clearly a calculated insult, intended to see how far they can push this new crime lord. However, in storytelling terms, it seems like they may be keeping the Mayor's identity from the viewers deliberately, presumably because it's someone we'll immediately recognise. Any guesses as to who?



My guess:


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## Morrus

I’m getting a bit bored of Tatooine.


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## Kobold Stew

"Well if there's a bright center to the universe you're on the planet it's farthest from" =least accurate statement from the original film. 

Couldn't agree more.


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## Staffan

MarkB said:


> So, in diplomatic terms, the Mayor sending a proxy is clearly a calculated insult, intended to see how far they can push this new crime lord. However, in storytelling terms, it seems like they may be keeping the Mayor's identity from the viewers deliberately, presumably because it's someone we'll immediately recognise. Any guesses as to who?



I didn't consider that aspect when watching the episode, but it makes sense. The obvious answer would be Lando Calrissian, as he's the one character from the OT we'd recognize and who'd be able to get himself a mayorship in some podunk town, and who'd likely not be happy about paying tribute to Fett. Only problem is that while the show takes place 5 years after the Battle of Endor, in real terms it's been more like 35. So unless Lando's only going to have a minor on-screen presence, like Luke's in the Mandalorian, I don't see that happening.

So perhaps it'd be more likely to be someone we've seen in either the Mandalorian or perhaps a character from one of the animated shows?


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## trappedslider

Staffan said:


> So perhaps it'd be more likely to be someone we've seen in either the Mandalorian or perhaps a character from one of the animated shows?



Or heaven forbid a whole new character who isn't mentioned in any star wars lore at all.


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## pukunui

I don’t know how trustworthy Looper is, but according to this, the mayor is named Mok Shaiz and will be voiced by Robert Rodriguez.









						Who Is The Mayor Of Mos Espa From The Book Of Boba Fett? - Looper
					

The first episode of The Book of Boba Fett introduces fans to the mayor of Mos Espa, better known as Mok Shaiz, although he hasn't appeared in the flesh yet.




					www.looper.com


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## DeviousQuail

I liked the fly over view of Mos Espa. It showed a level of life that I don't normally associate with Tattooine in my head. The flashbacks were interesting though I hope we don't get that through every episode. My only gripe with the show so far is that the fight scenes felt like a step down from what we got in the Mandalorian series.


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## FitzTheRuke

Morrus said:


> I’m getting a bit bored of Tatooine.





Kobold Stew said:


> "Well if there's a bright center to the universe you're on the planet it's farthest from" =least accurate statement from the original film.
> 
> Couldn't agree more.




I've been complaining about that ever since the prequels. This planet was supposed to be a backwater that no one has heard of or ever goes to, but apparently if you start to run out of fuel, it's the closest gas station.


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## John R Davis

Tatooine is a backwater of the Empire but even from Episode IV was important enough to have crimelords and scum and villains hanging out there. So should have vibrant and lively areas.
If we assume from that movie that the Tantive IV hadn't been chased for too long it also can't be too far from important stuff 
Plus teenagers always think where they come from is "dull".


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## MarkB

FitzTheRuke said:


> I've been complaining about that ever since the prequels. This planet was supposed to be a backwater that no one has heard of or ever goes to, but apparently if you start to run out of fuel, it's the closest gas station.



If you're referring to Episode I, they chose Tatooine precisely because it was obscure and not part of the Republic - a good place to get lost in if you're on the run.


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## Enevhar Aldarion

The thing with Tatooine is that you have to look at the franchise as a whole for why it features in so much. It is where Anakin was born and where his mother had relatives who could take in Luke and raise him in secret. And apparently these relatives were not known to Anakin/Vader, otherwise it would not have been safe to stash Luke there. And yes, he thought his kids died in childbirth, but still. Tatooine has been overused in non-essential stuff, but for the whole Anakin/Luke/Jabba/Boba Fett arc, it is needed.


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## FitzTheRuke

It definitely makes sense for Boba Fett's story to be there - having to do with Jabba, who lived there. 

But I still object to a lot of what was written for Episode 1. (I mean, I accept it, but I don't like it - it could have been so much better). 

For example, in a galaxy-wide republic, there could have been millions of planets to go to when you're low on fuel. Then again, I object to Anakin being born there too. That was, IMO, a foolish and uninspired choice by Lukas. It certainly makes Obi-Wan taking Luke there to "hide" him make little sense. We can make excuses for it (Vader would never want to return to that crappy place, say) but it's a far cry from things that were implied in the original series (that it was so far out of the way that very few people would ever even think of it).

As far as it being a vibrant place with crime bosses and stuff, _everywhere_ should be a vibrant place with cool stuff going on, no matter how unimportant and out-of-the-way it is.


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## Zardnaar

Steve Bolton cartoons
					

Steve Bolton is an internationally renowned cartoonist whose work has appeared in various publications around the world.




					i.stuff.co.nz
				




 Covid roadmap.


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## Stalker0

FitzTheRuke said:


> For example, in a galaxy-wide republic, there could have been millions of planets to go to when you're low on fuel. Then again, I object to Anakin being born there too. That was, IMO, a foolish and uninspired choice by Lukas. It certainly makes Obi-Wan taking Luke there to "hide" him make little sense. We can make excuses for it (Vader would never want to return to that crappy place, say) but it's a far cry from things that were implied in the original series (that it was so far out of the way that very few people would ever even think of it).



I think there in lies the logic. Obi Wan knows Anakin, knows how much he hates Tatooine, and would never want to go there.

Meanwhile Vadar would think the same we are right now..... there are millions of planets out there, no way someone would have the ***** to hide something precious to me on my actual home planet.

Ergo the hide in plain sight trick does the job.


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## Stalker0

MarkB said:


> Letting someone take your helmets away for servicing seems excessively trusting. If they haven't had trackers and listening devices installed I'd be surprised.



I saw it as a power move.

Boba walks in like he owns the place (because....he does). He is completely comfortable, and freely offers his helmet, basically daring anyone to mess with it.

Its his way of saying "none of you are a threat to me".


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## Sacrosanct

Morrus said:


> Matt Berry gets everywhere these days!



I thought the same thing.  He has a very recognizable accent, even when it's a robot lol


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## Morrus

Stalker0 said:


> I think there in lies the logic. Obi Wan knows Anakin, knows how much he hates Tatooine, and would never want to go there.
> 
> Meanwhile Vadar would think the same we are right now..... there are millions of planets out there, no way someone would have the ***** to hide something precious to me on my actual home planet.
> 
> Ergo the hide in plain sight trick does the job.



I think that's a stretch. There was no logic to it. I reckon that when Lucas made Star Wars (IV), he did not plan that Anakin had grown up on Tatooine. Tatooine was envisaged as an out of the way world nobody had every heard of. Anakin's history came much, much later.


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## Stalker0

Morrus said:


> I think that's a stretch. There was no logic to it. I reckon that when Lucas made Star Wars (IV), he did not plan that Anakin had grown up on Tatooine. Tatooine was envisaged as an out of the way world nobody had every heard of. Anakin's history came much, much later.



Oh I completely agree, but in terms of "DM filling in the details to account for something they never anticipated at the beginning of the campaign", I don't think its that crazy. Its believable enough for me to wink at DM Lucas and go "sure sure George, that works"


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## Ryujin

FitzTheRuke said:


> It definitely makes sense for Boba Fett's story to be there - having to do with Jabba, who lived there.
> 
> But I still object to a lot of what was written for Episode 1. (I mean, I accept it, but I don't like it - it could have been so much better).
> 
> For example, in a galaxy-wide republic, there could have been millions of planets to go to when you're low on fuel. Then again, I object to Anakin being born there too. That was, IMO, a foolish and uninspired choice by Lukas. It certainly makes Obi-Wan taking Luke there to "hide" him make little sense. We can make excuses for it (Vader would never want to return to that crappy place, say) but it's a far cry from things that were implied in the original series (that it was so far out of the way that very few people would ever even think of it).
> 
> As far as it being a vibrant place with crime bosses and stuff, _everywhere_ should be a vibrant place with cool stuff going on, no matter how unimportant and out-of-the-way it is.



With the emotional baggage that Tatooine had for Vader, it would likely be the last place he wanted to go.

And as far as crime bosses go in the Star Wars universe if it has life, it has crime. If it has crime, it has bosses.


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## MarkB

Morrus said:


> I think that's a stretch. There was no logic to it. I reckon that when Lucas made Star Wars (IV), he did not plan that Anakin had grown up on Tatooine. Tatooine was envisaged as an out of the way world nobody had every heard of. Anakin's history came much, much later.



The only part in there that really bothers me is the whole "Threepio was Anakin's droid all along, and Artoo was there too" bit. Poor old Threepio gets his mind wiped, and apparently Artoo is just happily feigning ignorance for the rest of the series.


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## Stalker0

MarkB said:


> The only part in there that really bothers me is the whole "Threepio was Anakin's droid all along, and Artoo was there too" bit. Poor old Threepio gets his mind wiped, and apparently Artoo is just happily feigning ignorance for the rest of the series.



Its because we didn't have BB8 yet, if that had created that little cutie for the prequels, it would have been "R2who?". The new trilogy did many things wrong, BB8 was not one of them.


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## trappedslider

Artoo ain't a snitch.


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## GreyLord

Perhaps you could view Tatooine similarly to the Western Half of Texas.  

Not a ton of people live in the rural areas, it's rather much like a desert with scrub grass, and could be a good place (or used to be) for people to hide.

However, I think a TON of people have heard of Texas, there actually is quite a bit of business that comes from there, and is a prime area for oil wells.


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## Ryujin

Morrus said:


> I think that's a stretch. There was no logic to it. I reckon that when Lucas made Star Wars (IV), he did not plan that Anakin had grown up on Tatooine. Tatooine was envisaged as an out of the way world nobody had every heard of. Anakin's history came much, much later.



The funny thing being that Lucas claimed, on several occasions, that he had all 6 episodes mapped out years ago.


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## FitzTheRuke

MarkB said:


> The only part in there that really bothers me is the whole "Threepio was Anakin's droid all along, and Artoo was there too" bit. Poor old Threepio gets his mind wiped, and apparently Artoo is just happily feigning ignorance for the rest of the series.



Yup, that was one of the silliest things for sure. Didn't R2 and 3P0 pass in front of Vader in the hall in Star Wars before taking off in the escape pod? And he didn't think to himself "Hey, there goes that Droid I built as a kid and the one that was my wingman in the war!" Or does Vader never share a screen with them in the whole trilogy?

But I'm sorry if I started a tangent of "dis the prequels". I really would like to talk about BoBF.


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## MarkB

FitzTheRuke said:


> Yup, that was one of the silliest things for sure. Didn't R2 and 3P0 pass in front of Vader in the hall in Star Wars before taking off in the escape pod? And he didn't think to himself "Hey, there goes that Droid I built as a kid and the one that was my wingman in the war!" Or does Vader never share a screen with them in the whole trilogy?



Well, he does shoot Artoo in the head that one time in Episode IV, but he was flying a TIE Fighter at the time, so it probably wasn't personal. And Threepio definitely isn't looking his normal self when Chewbacca wears him like a backpack in the carbon freezing scene in Episode V, so he can be forgiven for not recognising him.


FitzTheRuke said:


> But I'm sorry if I started a tangent of "dis the prequels". I really would like to talk about BoBF.



That's fair. So, how about that big centaur-gorilla-lizard thing? Are we thinking sentient species, or just ambush predator? Both is possible, I guess.


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## Morrus

Ryujin said:


> The funny thing being that Lucas claimed, on several occasions, that he had all 6 episodes mapped out years ago.



Filmmakers claim a lot of things.


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## Mallus

I’m a little disappointed after one episode. Especially after seeing Richard Rodriguez directed it. Not bad, but not captivating out of the gate like The Mandalorian.

There’s got to be a twist coming, right? Like, this isn’t going to be the show it appears to be. Just like the Mandalorian wasn’t about bounty-hunting.

it’s not going to be about single-parenting a baby Yoda, obviously. But where will it go?


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## Morrus

If that droid doesn't say "Yes I can hear you, Clem Fandango" at least once I will be upset.


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## monsmord

Morrus said:


> If that droid doesn't say "Yes I can hear you, Clem Fandango" at least once I will be upset.



Aside: OMG, I quote their exchange at least once a week.


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## CapnZapp

The important takeaway was that Max Rebo survived!


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## pukunui

MarkB said:


> That's fair. So, how about that big centaur-gorilla-lizard thing? Are we thinking sentient species, or just ambush predator? Both is possible, I guess.



Ambush predator would be my guess. Despite being a desert world, Tatooine sure is able to sustain a number of large predators along with its multitude of sentient species.

Those water gourds are weird. They look like open bowls. Why aren’t they filled with sand? Are they plants?


I wonder if we’ll finally get to see “under the hood” re: the Tuskens.


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## Lidgar

CapnZapp said:


> The important takeaway was that Max Rebo survived!



My son said the same thing last night, to which I responded, "who's that?"

Man, some SW lore runs deep...


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## Mallus

Morrus said:


> Filmmakers claim a lot of things.



It’s almost like the people who make fiction are liars.


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## darjr

Mallus said:


> It’s almost like the people who make fiction are liars.



All of them?


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## Morrus

darjr said:


> All of them?



It’s a joke about the meaning of ‘fiction’.


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## darjr

Morrus said:


> It’s a joke about the meaning of ‘fiction’.



I don't do jokes, or fiction.


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## darjr

But I loved that episode. Especially the flashbacks.


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## Ryujin

Mallus said:


> It’s almost like the people who make fiction are liars.



Fiction? You mean the "Historical Documents"?


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## Paul Farquhar

Lidgar said:


> My son said the same thing last night, to which I responded, "who's that?"
> 
> Man, some SW lore runs deep...
> 
> View attachment 149174



He appeared in The Clone Wars too - that guy has a _long_ career.


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## Mallus

Ryujin said:


> Fiction? You mean the "Historical Documents"?



I think of Mathesar and the Thermians fairly often. Usually when I’m arguing with someone about ‘canon’.


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## MoonSong

Staffan said:


> I didn't consider that aspect when watching the episode, but it makes sense. The obvious answer would be Lando Calrissian, as he's the one character from the OT we'd recognize and who'd be able to get himself a mayorship in some podunk town, and who'd likely not be happy about paying tribute to Fett. Only problem is that while the show takes place 5 years after the Battle of Endor, in real terms it's been more like 35. So unless Lando's only going to have a minor on-screen presence, like Luke's in the Mandalorian, I don't see that happening.



I think you haven't met Donald Glover yet...


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## FitzTheRuke

I remember bursting out with, "Hey, the band knows more than one song!"


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## FitzTheRuke

Donald Glover is only like 5 or 6 years younger than Lando ought to be at about this time. Close enough, I say!

Speaking of Ages - Isn't Boba Fett about 36 or so at this time? I thought he was one of the only clones who DIDN'T age extra fast. Poor guy is aging about double-time.


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## MarkB

FitzTheRuke said:


> Speaking of Ages - Isn't Boba Fett about 36 or so at this time? I thought he was one of the only clones who DIDN'T age extra fast. Poor guy is aging about double-time.



The Mandalorian takes place around 32 years after the events of Attack of the Clones, and Boba was in, what, his early teens at that point? Still a decade or two younger than Temuera Morrison.


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## MoonSong

FitzTheRuke said:


> Donald Glover is only like 5 or 6 years younger than Lando ought to be at about this time. Close enough, I say!
> 
> Speaking of Ages - Isn't Boba Fett about 36 or so at this time? I thought he was one of the only clones who DIDN'T age extra fast. Poor guy is aging about double-time.



Umm, he has already played Lando...


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## Zardnaar

FitzTheRuke said:


> Donald Glover is only like 5 or 6 years younger than Lando ought to be at about this time. Close enough, I say!
> 
> Speaking of Ages - Isn't Boba Fett about 36 or so at this time? I thought he was one of the only clones who DIDN'T age extra fast. Poor guy is aging about double-time.




 Scarring from the Sarlacc.

 He would be in his mid 30's RotJ early 40's Mandalorian.

 Been watching him on TV 30 years this year.


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## Bolares

... was that a wookie pelt?


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## Paul Farquhar

Bolares said:


> ... was that a wookie pelt?



I assumed that, although it was not made explicit.


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## pukunui

Bolares said:


> ... was that a wookie pelt?



Where?


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## Bolares

pukunui said:


> Where?



The gift lizard dude gave him.


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## Paul Farquhar

Bolares said:


> The gift lizard dude gave him.



Trandoshan. Lizard Dude? Please!


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## Bolares

Paul Farquhar said:


> Trandoshan. Lizard Dude? Please!



I know he is a Trandoshan... Lizard dude is his name!


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## pukunui

Bolares said:


> The gift lizard dude gave him.



Ah right! It didn’t occur to me that that might be a Wookiee pelt! Oh dear!


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## Zardnaar

Depends if the Teandoshan/wookie thing has carried over from legends along with Fett wearing wookie pelts.


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## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> Depends if the Teandoshan/wookie thing has carried over from legends along with Fett wearing wookie pelts.



It’s canon thanks to the Clone Wars. There was that whole arc with Ahsoka.

I don’t think Fett’s Wookiee hair decorations are canon, though.


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## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> It’s canon thanks to the Clone Wars. There was that whole arc with Ahsoka.
> 
> I don’t think Fett’s Wookiee hair decorations are canon, though.




 Yeah it's been a while since I watched. That cartoon sort of backdoors some legends material in as it was produced pre Disney.


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## Zardnaar

I enjoyed Dances With Banthas this week.


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## pukunui

Kobold Stew said:


> My guess:
> 
> View attachment 149096



Well, you weren’t wrong … in a manner of speaking.

That was a fun episode! Great to see the Tuskens getting so much love. Cool that Tatooine once had oceans. I guess the Tuskens are the natives?

It’s fun to see Tem getting to give Boba some Māori warrior vibes.

The whole thing with the Pykes’ train was very reminiscent of the American Wild West.


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## trappedslider

pukunui said:


> The whole thing with the Pykes’ train was very reminiscent of the American Wild West.



That was what immediately came to my mind. Folks riding the train shooting up the countryside's natives because..why not.

Also, I bet that cleared up his sinuses lol


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## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> Well, you weren’t wrong … in a manner of speaking.
> 
> That was a fun episode! Great to see the Tuskens getting so much love. Cool that Tatooine once had oceans. I guess the Tuskens are the natives?
> 
> It’s fun to see Tem getting to give Boba some Māori warrior vibes.
> 
> The whole thing with the Pykes’ train was very reminiscent of the American Wild West.




 And a vision quest. 

 Mando touched on a western vibe. This was very direct with babtha herds as well.


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## pukunui

It was cool to see him getting to make his own gaffi stick.

I feel like this extended flashback is doing more than just filling in the gaps. It’s setting something up. Fett is seeing how the natives are treated and is helping at least that one tribe improve their lives. I wonder if he is going to call on them to help him later on. It’s certainly been quite the spiritual awakening Fett has had - to the point he can confidently and truthfully tell the mayor of Mos Espa that he is no longer a bounty hunter.

Also, I hope we get to see someone (either Fett or Fennec) fight that scary-looking wookiee. He was bad ass.

The twins were pretty interesting too. As Fett suspects, I doubt that’s the last we’ve seen of them.


Is that the first time we’ve gotten to see Pykes without their helmets on? I wonder if we’ll get to see unmasked Tuskens as well. (One can hope!)


----------



## pukunui

Also, I think that the broken piece of spaceship (or whatever) that formed the wall of the tribe’s “forge” was meant to be a callback to this piece of Ralph MacQuarrie concept art: Tusken Raider


----------



## trappedslider

pukunui said:


> Also, I hope we get to see someone (either Fett or Fennec) fight that scary-looking wookiee. He was bad ass.
> 
> The twins were pretty interesting too. As Fett suspects, I doubt that’s the last we’ve seen of them.



There was a comment that Fett made during the encounter where instead of just rolling her eyes, she rolls her whole head. lol


----------



## Ryujin

pukunui said:


> Well, you weren’t wrong … in a manner of speaking.
> 
> That was a fun episode! Great to see the Tuskens getting so much love. Cool that Tatooine once had oceans. I guess the Tuskens are the natives?
> 
> It’s fun to see Tem getting to give Boba some Māori warrior vibes.
> 
> The whole thing with the Pykes’ train was very reminiscent of the American Wild West.



That last scene left me with a definite Haka vibe though, rather than American West.


----------



## MarkB

I liked the train driver droid. Wily little rascal.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Yep, that was quite the trippy episode and more than good enough for me to ignore the tropes used that would have ruined a lesser show.

And yeah, especially with the end scene around the fire, it was a much more Maori vibe than American West vibe to me. Though the whole show feels a mix of the two, and it is has to be because of direct input from Temuera. Maybe @Zardnaar has add to that. I also paid attention through all the credits to see filming location and I did not know they used Australia for the show.


----------



## Rabulias

pukunui said:


> Also, I hope we get to see someone (either Fett or Fennec) fight that scary-looking wookiee. He was bad ass.



I think that was Black Krrsantan.


----------



## Zardnaar

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Yep, that was quite the trippy episode and more than good enough for me to ignore the tropes used that would have ruined a lesser show.
> 
> And yeah, especially with the end scene around the fire, it was a much more Maori vibe than American West vibe to me. Though the whole show feels a mix of the two, and it is has to be because of direct input from Temuera. Maybe @Zardnaar has add to that. I also paid attention through all the credits to see filming location and I did not know they used Australia for the show.




 Tems facial expressions he is drawing on his heritage as they use them in dance and martial arts. It was also noticable in Mandalorian when they kicked the crap out of the Stormtroopers. 

 He used to live in Rotorua not sure if he has done taiha training or kapa haka. The dance wasn't any I'm familiar with the weapon he crafted isn't a Maori weapon it's similar to a Fijian club. 

The Tuskan dance gave me Australian Aboriginal vibes more than Maori but idk could be based on nothing, modern dance or a fusion of influences.


----------



## pukunui

Yeah, the gaffi stick is not a taiaha but Tem wields it like one sometimes. I first noticed that in the Mandalorian episode where he’s fighting the stormtroopers.

He made a few Māori warrior expressions, and his approach to treating the Tuskens as the indigenous people of Tatooine lined up with the Māori worldview.

The dance at the end didn’t strike me as particularly Māori, though. Looked like something a Native American tribe could have practiced.


----------



## pukunui

On a different note, the Tusken who has been teaching Boba to fight is played by stuntwoman extraordinaire Joanna Bennett. I thought that character looked female!

She was pretty bad ass on the train.


----------



## Zardnaar

RL gaffi stick. 





__





						Loading... | Collections Online - Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa
					






					collections.tepapa.govt.nz
				




 Totokia


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> Cool that Tatooine once had oceans. I guess the Tuskens are the natives?



It's been awhile, but I think that concept was introduced in Knights of the Old Republic. Nice to see it being made canon if so.


----------



## Ryujin

I remember seeing Haka done with spears but yeah, maybe more Australian Aboriginal than Haka.


----------



## Zardnaar

MarkB said:


> It's been awhile, but I think that concept was introduced in Knights of the Old Republic. Nice to see it being made canon if so.




 Yeah the Tuskans also got developed a bit in old comics. Tatooine got glassed hence the sand.


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> RL gaffi stick.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> __
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Loading... | Collections Online - Museum of New Zealand Te Papa Tongarewa
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> collections.tepapa.govt.nz
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Totokia



Wow. You’re not kidding. That’s pretty much exactly the same. Must have been the original inspiration.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> Wow. You’re not kidding. That’s pretty much exactly the same. Must have been the original inspiration.




 When I was a kid in the 80's mother worked for a Maori organization. 

Anyway they had a workshop there for bonecarving and pounamu carving. 

 Of course it got used to make patu and a taiha lol. Lived over the road from a Maori family and their extended whanau had one if the last guys who could make a traditional reed canoe so he made one and it came to our school. Last I saw it was in the local museum. 

 Two maraes nearby one old pa and rock drawings near my hometown. Polynesian art is beautiful.


----------



## MoonSong

pukunui said:


> On a different note, the Tusken who has been teaching Boba to fight is played by stuntwoman extraordinaire Joanna Bennett. I thought that character looked female!
> 
> She was pretty bad ass on the train.



I don't care for any future indication. To me she is a badass Tusken warrior woman.


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> When I was a kid in the 80's mother worked for a Maori organization.
> 
> Anyway they had a workshop there for bonecarving and pounamu carving.
> 
> Of course it got used to make patu and a taiha lol. Lived over the road from a Maori family and their extended whanau had one if the last guys who could make a traditional reed canoe so he made one and it came to our school. Last I saw it was in the local museum.
> 
> Two maraes nearby one old pa and rock drawings near my hometown. Polynesian art is beautiful.



I work with Māori in my day job and have learned a lot in the past few years. 



MoonSong said:


> I don't care for any future indication. To me she is a badass Tusken warrior woman.



Agreed.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> I work with Māori in my day job and have learned a lot in the past few years.
> 
> 
> Agreed.




 Interesting seeing stuff created as well. 

 When Boba got the speeder bikes that's Toche Station as mentioned by Luke in Episode IV. There's a deleted scene from Star Wars and those characters and background were used in BoBF last night. 

 Attention to detail damn.

 Episode 1 of Mando was better than BoBF, episode 2 other way round. 

 Slower pace perhaps the flashbacks are putting a lit of world building into it. Longer episode as well.


----------



## pukunui

EDIT: Ninja'd by @Zardnaar! _shakes fist_

Another deep cut: Those two people the Nikto bikers were harassing at the bar (was that Tosche Station?) were Luke's friends from that legendary Episode IV deleted scene: ‘The Book of Boba Fett’ Introduces Two Star Wars Characters Cut from ‘A New Hope’


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

This is one of the good things about this forum having an international list of members. Those of us sitting here in the US, and probably a good number of folks in the UK, have no knowledge about all this Pacific Islands stuff beyond what little has been in a few movies.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> EDIT: Ninja'd by @Zardnaar! _shakes fist_
> 
> Another deep cut: Those two people the Nikto bikers were harassing at the bar (was that Tosche Station?) were Luke's friends from that legendary Episode IV deleted scene: ‘The Book of Boba Fett’ Introduces Two Star Wars Characters Cut from ‘A New Hope’




 Did you watch it on YouTube?


----------



## Zardnaar

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> This is one of the good things about this forum having an international list of members. Those of us sitting here in the US, and probably a good number of folks in the UK, have no knowledge about all this Pacific Islands stuff beyond what little has been in a few movies.




 Pukunui is an American import. He seems to have turned into a kiwi though so we'll adopt him (ducks).


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> Pukunui is an American import. He seems to have turned into a kiwi though so we'll adopt him (ducks).



Thanks. I've been here almost half my life now.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> Thanks. I've been here almost half my life now.




 Mum he followed me home can I keep him? Might be turning in a Jafa though have to deduct points for that. 




More of this less lattes, soy/oat milk, iPhones, and Ponsonby or Epsom. 

 Did you find the perfect women here? It's a hard road.


----------



## FitzTheRuke

MoonSong said:


> Umm, he has already played Lando...



I am aware of that. I mean how old he'd be in _this show_. Solo takes place many years earlier.



MarkB said:


> The Mandalorian takes place around 32 years after the events of Attack of the Clones, and Boba was in, what, his early teens at that point? Still a decade or two younger than Temuera Morrison.




I guess I was thinking about the flashback scenes with the Tuskans. We are, after all, talking about two different periods a number of years apart when speaking of this show. Either way, yeah, he's aging badly (Morrison is aging well, otoh). Perhaps something about being a clone? At any rate, there's more than one reason he sleeps in a tank, I would think.


----------



## MarkB

FitzTheRuke said:


> I guess I was thinking about the flashback scenes with the Tuskans. We are, after all, talking about two different periods a number of years apart when speaking of this show. Either way, yeah, he's aging badly (Morrison is aging well, otoh). Perhaps something about being a clone? At any rate, there's more than one reason he sleeps in a tank, I would think.



Perhaps being dunked in sarlacc digestive fluids has something to do with that. Supposedly it digests its still-living prey over a thousand years, so it could have a combination of both corrosive and preservative effects. Maybe it's still in his system, and that's why he now has to have daily bacta baths.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> Perhaps being dunked in sarlacc digestive fluids has something to do with that. Supposedly it digests its still-living prey over a thousand years, so it could have a combination of both corrosive and preservative effects. Maybe it's still in his system, and that's why he now has to have daily bacta baths.



I think that at least part of it is that his "sleep" keeps getting interrupted.


----------



## Zardnaar

Apparently the gladiator is from a comic book.


----------



## Kobold Stew

Was ep. 2 the first reference to there having been seas once on Tatooine? It's not a detail I remember from elsewhere? (even if it's a myth of the Tuskens).


----------



## MarkB

Kobold Stew said:


> Was ep. 2 the first reference to there having been seas once on Tatooine? It's not a detail I remember from elsewhere? (even if it's a myth of the Tuskens).



No, that comes from the videogame Knights of the Old Republic. The planet was once lush and fertile, with large oceans. The Rakata of the Infinite Empire ruled it in ancient times, but when the native population rebelled, the Rakata glassed the planet, rendering it nearly uninhabitable. The Tuskans are the descendants of those few of the native population who survived.


----------



## Kobold Stew

huh. thanks.


----------



## Mallus

Aha… so the twist for this show is “post-colonial Western”. 

Much stronger second episode. Once again, I shall delay un-subbing from Disney+…


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

A while back there were plans for The Mandalorian, Ahsoka, and Rangers of the New Republic to have a big crossover event, before a certain actress got fired, and likely got Rangers cancelled because of her firing. I wonder if The Book of Boba Fett has taken the place of Rangers of the New Republic in the plan, and once we get the Ahsoka series, we will still get that team-up event? Mando, Boba, Ahsoka, and their related cast all going after Thrawn maybe? I would say needing to go and rescue Gorgu from the destruction of Luke's new Jedi Temple, but that does not happen for another 20+ years after the current events in the show.


----------



## pukunui

I really hope that Disney doesn’t confirm that Kyle Ren killed Grogu when he attacked Luke’s temple. Maybe Luke (or Din) will take him back to his home planet instead!


----------



## wicked cool

I thought the first 1/2 of episode was good but 2nd part dragged

few thoughts
-is it me or is boba short?
-he’s in full armor and yet I’m not getting the he’s intimidating vibe.


----------



## billd91

Book of Boba Fett delivers so far. Really liking the Tusken raider flashbacks.


----------



## pukunui

wicked cool said:


> -is it me or is boba short?



Temuera Morrison is 5’ 7” (171 cm).


----------



## Zardnaar

Kinda short lol.


----------



## Zardnaar

MarkB said:


> No, that comes from the videogame Knights of the Old Republic. The planet was once lush and fertile, with large oceans. The Rakata of the Infinite Empire ruled it in ancient times, but when the native population rebelled, the Rakata glassed the planet, rendering it nearly uninhabitable. The Tuskans are the descendants of those few of the native population who survived.




Revans cannon again and I think they're remaking KoToR.

 Rewatching as wife missed it last night.


----------



## MoonSong

Mallus said:


> Much stronger second episode. Once again, I shall delay un-subbing from Disney+…



Search your feelings, you know you'll never drop it... n_n


----------



## wicked cool

its funny how the stormtrooper outfit has a oxygen supply/tank while his doesnt

i like the show (im one of the people who sent away for the original figure back in the day) but its missing something. I think me need more chemistry between characters and better supporting characters


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

wicked cool said:


> its funny how the stormtrooper outfit has a oxygen supply/tank while his doesnt




I am pretty sure that was just because his was about empty or was damaged. He was unconscious for an unknown amount of time and maybe the gasping for air is what brought him back to consciousness.


----------



## Staffan

pukunui said:


> Temuera Morrison is 5’ 7” (171 cm).



And sources have Mark Hamill as being between 5'7" and 5'9". So I guess he's *not* really short for a stormtrooper.

And a bit of plot speculation: a big thing is made about Boba not traveling on a litter, while the Hutt twins did. That *has* to be a tactical liability – if you take out (or scare off) the bearers, the whole thing falls over and that has to be bad news.


----------



## Ryujin

Staffan said:


> And sources have Mark Hamill as being between 5'7" and 5'9". So I guess he's *not* really short for a stormtrooper.
> 
> And a bit of plot speculation: a big thing is made about Boba not traveling on a litter, while the Hutt twins did. That *has* to be a tactical liability – if you take out (or scare off) the bearers, the whole thing falls over and that has to be bad news.



Hutts aren't exactly known for their sprinting ability, at any rate.


----------



## trappedslider

Staffan said:


> And a bit of plot speculation: a big thing is made about Boba not traveling on a litter, while the Hutt twins did. That *has* to be a tactical liability – if you take out (or scare off) the bearers, the whole thing falls over and that has to be bad news.



well the two Hutts's bearers looked to be struggling


----------



## billd91

Staffan said:


> And a bit of plot speculation: a big thing is made about Boba not traveling on a litter, while the Hutt twins did. That *has* to be a tactical liability – if you take out (or scare off) the bearers, the whole thing falls over and that has to be bad news.



Sure, but it asserts a certain amount of security and the notion that you're not afraid of any tactical liability it may impose. It's like the bright plumage on a male bird - bright colors make it easier for predators to spot the bird, but that's a secondary concern to successfully mating and passing on their genes. In the case of a boss on Tatooine, cowing and wowing the locals outweighs the tactical risk.


----------



## MarkB

Staffan said:


> And a bit of plot speculation: a big thing is made about Boba not traveling on a litter, while the Hutt twins did. That *has* to be a tactical liability – if you take out (or scare off) the bearers, the whole thing falls over and that has to be bad news.



I'll bet that's a bluff, to bait attackers. That thing probably has repulsorlifts built in which kick into gear the moment it tilts too far from horizontal, and shield generators which are always active.

The whole point of it isn't that they need to be carried around by slaves - it's that they _can_ be carried around by slaves.


----------



## MoonSong

Staffan said:


> And sources have Mark Hamill as being between 5'7" and 5'9". So I guess he's *not* really short for a stormtrooper.



Stormtrooper<>clonetrooper?


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## wicked cool

is the droid from the palace the same 1 from return of the jedi


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

wicked cool said:


> is the droid from the palace the same 1 from return of the jedi




Yes, the same one that was torturing the other droids.


----------



## Zardnaar

Apparently Tem is drawing on this. 









						Mau rākau - Wikipedia
					






					en.m.wikipedia.org


----------



## Zardnaar

1992 spot the Mandalorian. 

@pukunui you missed this.


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> View attachment 149576
> 1992 spot the Mandalorian.
> 
> @pukunui you missed this.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


>




 That was episode 1 iirc lol. 

 Mocked that show so hard when it came out. It was kinda decent 94-98.

 "Not in Guatemala now doctor Ropata"

 Classic. It never goes away aaargh.


----------



## pukunui

Krrsantan confirmed!

Looks like the Pykes are going to be the main villains.

Looking forward to seeing Boba riding a rancor!

I was waiting for someone to attack Boba while he was vulnerable in his bacta tank.

It was fun seeing Stephen Root and Danny Trejo in Star Wars!

Those hover scooter cyborg kids look like they’ve taken their cues from The Who’s Quadrophenia. Looking forward to seeing more of them.


----------



## Zardnaar

The plot thickens. Tough wookie and it's personal.


----------



## pukunui

Also: they made a point of showing us the Tusken chief and the kid but not Joanna Bennett’s bad ass lady warrior. Who wants to bet she’ll show up alive and join Boba’s growing posse?


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> Also: they made a point of showing us the Tusken chief and the kid but not Joanna Bennett’s bad ass lady warrior. Who wants to bet she’ll show up alive and join Boba’s growing posse?




 Not gonna take that bet.


----------



## MarkB

Scooter gangs with droid enhancements. Mods with mods?


----------



## Argyle King

Episode 3 feels different.

The bike gang is color-coded similar to Power Rangers.


----------



## Maxperson

So far I think this series is only okay.  There are some good parts, but it seems to be dragging to me and I think Fett should be more badass than they have been making him.  I also didn't care for the colored motorcyle speeders.


----------



## Staffan

You'd think that after seeing what happened with his former employer, Fett would be more careful about accepting extravagant gifts as peace offerings.


----------



## MarkB

Staffan said:


> You'd think that after seeing what happened with his former employer, Fett would be more careful about accepting extravagant gifts as peace offerings.



Only if he noticed that it was Artoo who smuggled Luke his lightsaber.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> Scooter gangs with droid enhancements. Mods with mods?



I can practically hear it now; "We have the mods! We have the mods! We have, we have, we have the mods!"


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

I just think it is cool that cyberpunk is now part of Star Wars. And Machete too! Now we know where he ended up after doing Machete in Space!


----------



## Morrus

Yeah those hover mopeds were a bit too on the nose.


----------



## MarkB

Morrus said:


> Yeah those hover mopeds were a bit too on the nose.



True - that and the kids' fashions. I guess it's probably less jarring to other nationalities.


----------



## Zardnaar

A few legends references as well eg Tatooines past, Tuskans, planet names and Hutt space etc. A few of them may be via the cartoons which they got via legends. 

 Saw a few prequel things here and there as well.


----------



## MarkB

The flashback part was relatively short this time. The Pykes are clearly playing the Tuskans and the Nikto swoop gang against each other, but I wonder how far they went. Perhaps it was the Pykes who destroyed the Tuskan settlement, leaving the Nikto symbol as misdirection.


----------



## Wolfram stout

pukunui said:


> pukunui said:
> 
> 
> 
> Those hover scooter cyborg kids look like they’ve taken their cues from The Who’s Quadrophenia. Looking forward to seeing more of them.
Click to expand...





Argyle King said:


> Episode 3 feels different.
> 
> The bike gang is color-coded similar to Power Rangers.



Could they be an early version of the Guvian Death Gang?  I have wanted more of them since Bela Tik in The Force Awakens.


----------



## pukunui

Wolfram stout said:


> Could they be an early version of the Guvian Death Gang?  I have wanted more of them since Bela Tik in The Force Awakens.



No idea! All I know is that their outfits and hover scooters were a nod to the mods from Quadrophenia (right down to the numerous side mirrors on the scooters).






On a different note, that was a crate of “meiloorun” fruits that the mayor’s lackey crashed into. You might remember those from Star Wars Rebels.


----------



## Zardnaar

Those scooters tem nded me of the Xbox buttons. 

 Wasn't a fan of them.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

I'm not saying that this series is Dune Part Two, but in the final episode Boba Muad'Dib leads an army of Rancor-riding-Tuskens to drive the syndicates off Tatooine.


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> I'm not saying that this series is Dune Part Two, but in the final episode Boba Muad'Dib leads an army of Rancor-riding-Tuskens to drive the syndicates off Tatooine.



I think you mean Krayt Dragon riding Tuskans.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

MarkB said:


> I think you mean Krayt Dragon riding Tuskans.



I thought that after episode 2, but episode 3 brought rancors on board, and they are probably easier to train.


----------



## Mezuka

Episode 3, the plot thickens! 

Loved the scooters and the cyborg-mod crew.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Where they meant to be a swoop gang? Swoop gangs appeared in Han Solo at Star's End (1979).


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> Where they meant to be a swoop gang? Swoop gangs appeared in Han Solo at Star's End (1979).



An urban variety. The more classic swoop gang is the Niktos from the flashback storyline.


----------



## trappedslider

Finally watched it:

The biker gang made me think of the biker gangs from Akria and the Japanese biker gangs that inspired them. I also like how Fett showed what he meant by ruling through respect.  The Rancor Whisper!


----------



## Morrus

So the two biker gangs are clear Mods and Rockers. They need to fight!


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Morrus said:


> So the two biker gangs are clear Mods and Rockers. They need to fight!



At Mos Bry'ton.


----------



## Stalker0

Well at least boba finally has an actual gang, instead of strolling around with literally 3 people. I do think the bikes were a bit much, and that was like the slowest chase scene in all of Star Wars.

the show is kind of meh to me right now, i think the direction is too split. It’s a current story and a backstory, boba is now a crime boss and yet is the underdog…it feels stretch right now.

I also think they found it much easier to make mando look impressive, frankly boba is coming across more comedic than anything right now


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> Finally watched it:
> 
> The biker gang made me think of the biker gangs from Akria and the Japanese biker gangs that inspired them. I also like how Fett showed what he meant by ruling through respect.  The Rancor Whisper!



Known as Bozosoku. Known for bizarre things like stacking multiple fairings on top of each other, "ape hangers" on sportbikes, and having flags mounted on ridiculously high "sissy bars" on their bikes.


----------



## FitzTheRuke

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 149914



C'mon. I can't be the only one who got that.


----------



## Nikosandros

FitzTheRuke said:


> C'mon. I can't be the only one who got that.



Yeah, if you could just tame the rancor, that would be great.


----------



## Aeson

I liked the bikes. Very diesel punk.




I kept thinking the one girl seemed awful pale for living on a desert planet.


----------



## pukunui

Aeson said:


> I kept thinking the one girl seemed awful pale for living on a desert planet.



She must keep out of the sun.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Shades of Eternity

Robert

Please say the final gang is these guys.


----------



## Eric V

What happened to Boba Fett's reputation as the most feared bounty hunter ever?  And now, the only person to have survived the Sarlaac!

People dissing Fett like crazy...


----------



## Shades of Eternity

Because they believe in hard men make hard choices.

Boba's playing nice because he's feeling out a new life.

He will go John Wick by the end of the series, but right now, he wants to use the carrot before he lets look at the stick.

It seriously feels like a pro wrestling narrative that would make Bret Hart proud.


----------



## Staffan

Eric V said:


> What happened to Boba Fett's reputation as the most feared bounty hunter ever?  And now, the only person to have survived the Sarlaac!
> 
> People dissing Fett like crazy...



Most feared bounty hunter, perhaps. That says that he's an absolute badass on an individual level. But a crime lord has to be different – you can't be a mafia boss without a mafia.  And right now, he doesn't have that, and that's what people are reacting to.


----------



## Bolares

Eric V said:


> What happened to Boba Fett's reputation as the most feared bounty hunter ever?



He doesn't want to rule by fear, he wants to rule by respect.


----------



## trappedslider

Bolares said:


> He doesn't want to rule by fear, he wants to rule by respect.



But he shot a guy in the face.


----------



## embee

Me, starting Episode 3: "Oh boy! Directed by Robert Rodriguez, the director of El Mariachi and Sin City."

Me, having watched Episode 3: "What did I expect? It was directed by Robert Rodriguez, the director of Spy Kids! and Sharkboy & Lavagirl."


----------



## Bolares

trappedslider said:


> But he shot a guy in the face.



I never said he would follow up on that...


----------



## embee

Aeson said:


> I liked the bikes. Very diesel punk.
> View attachment 149970
> 
> I kept thinking the one girl seemed awful pale for living on a desert planet.



She steals sunscreen and moisturizer.


----------



## Eric V

Staffan said:


> Most feared bounty hunter, perhaps. That says that he's an absolute badass on an individual level. But a crime lord has to be different – you can't be a mafia boss without a mafia.  And right now, he doesn't have that, and that's what people are reacting to.



I get what you're saying but people are still pretty lippy to a guy holding a rifle and a galaxy-wide reputation as willing to use it.  I dunno.  Strikes me as inconsistent.


----------



## Eric V

trappedslider said:


> But he shot a guy in the face.



Respectfully!


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Eric V said:


> I get what you're saying but people are still pretty lippy to a guy holding a rifle and a galaxy-wide reputation as willing to use it.  I dunno.  Strikes me as inconsistent.




Do you think there were no survivors from that day? And do you think there are no jokes circulating Tatooine about how Fett ended up in the Pit? If he is not going to just go around executing people, which is what some people seem to expect of the show, he has to rebuild his reputation and earn the respect again. I always looked at Fett as a minor throwaway character, but The Mandalorian and Book of Boba Fett have changed that.

And this is aimed at a lot of posters, not singling you out. Yours was just the most recent post.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Aeson

embee said:


> She steals sunscreen and moisturizer.



And only from dishonest merchants.


----------



## CapnZapp

It seems possible or even probable that this scooter episode is the Jump the Shark moment for the show.


----------



## Zardnaar

In the new canon Fetta just a bounty hunter his legends stuff doesn't really apply. He's good but he's not superman. 

 So it's the movies, cartoons and BoBF. Latest episodewas alright they're building up to something and I kinda like the world building.


----------



## pukunui

Episode 4 was good.

I note that Fennec actually referred to the biker gang as “the mods”. Yes, it’s because they’re cybernetically modified, but it’s also another reference to Quadrophenia!

I liked the “mod parlor”. Like a tattoo parlor but for cybernetic enhancements.

The kitchen droids were interesting. Trust Jabba to have servant droids that are also programmed to fight. (Were the whirling cleavers a subtle callback to Grievous?)

I also liked whatsername’s attempt to talk Krrsantan out of ripping the trandoshan’s arm off.

I note that he’s just Krrsantan now. They seem to have dropped the “black” part. I also note that Boba just refers to his ship as a firespray. It would seem someone at Lucasfilm / Disney is determined to not have it be referred to as _Slave 1 _ever again.

The Mandalorian theme at the end was a not so subtle hint that Mando is the muscle Fennec is thinking of. Looking forward to seeing him again!

Now that Boba is fully healed, will we get any more flashbacks? The only dangling thread left is how he found out Mando had his armor and how he tracked him to Tython, but I suppose we don’t really need to have that gap filled in.


----------



## trappedslider

pukunui said:


> The kitchen droids were interesting. Trust Jabba to have servant droids that are also programmed to fight. (Were the whirling cleavers a subtle callback to Grievous?)



 it slices it dices it makes julienne fries and then gets beheaded. The rat catcher droid was like "I'm out."


----------



## Nikosandros

So, if the Mandalorian takes place 5 years after RotJ, did Boba spend most of that time with the Tuskens?


----------



## embee

Nikosandros said:


> So, if the Mandalorian takes place 5 years after RotJ, did Boba spend most of that time with the Tuskens?



Yes. 

And we will be treated to about 2 minutes of "present day" per episode, followed by approximately 53 minutes of flashback showing such crucial events as Boba Fett deciding to shave his head; why Boba Fett's cape has a stain on it (not that stain, the other stain. no, the OTHER other stain); Boba Fett shopping for bacta tanks; Boba Fett driving - IN REAL TIME - to Mos Entha to pick up grain-free rancor chow, and; Boba Fett filling out the rebate card for the bacta tank.

Oh, and any vaguely menacing criminal that is introduced will immediately be killed to maximize audience letdown misdirection.


----------



## pukunui

Nikosandros said:


> So, if the Mandalorian takes place 5 years after RotJ, did Boba spend most of that time with the Tuskens?



I think it was a mix of time spent in the sarlacc and time spent with the Tuskens.


----------



## embee

My problem with this show, so far, is the (to me) unnecessary reliance on flashbacks. Ordinarily, flashbacks are used to illustrate parallel plots (perfectly exemplified in _The Godfather: Part II_). 

But here, it's just used to say, "Also, 5 years earlier, this happened." I find it jarring and, frankly, distracting. 

One criticism of Episode 1 was that it was a short episode that ended on a lull without any open thread for the next episode. I personally think that it would have been greatly improved with E1 being Boba's time with the Tuskens. Breaking it up and adding in a framing device did it no favors. 

Then, just play the story out in chronological order. 

Also, not helping things is the same thing that was one of the major flaws of the Sequel Trilogy - *too many creative voices*. 

E4 was better than E3 (which I thoroughly disliked for a variety of reasons) and it was also tonally hugely different. Not a surprise as Robert Rodriguez wrote and directed E3 while Favreau wrote E4 and Kevin Tancharoen (itinerant TV director) directed.  The result was a wide disconnect between these two episodes. Making it even more bizarre is the tonal shift between Rodriguez' E1 and his cartoony E3. 

There seems to be nothing connecting these episodes together. The flashbacks are supposed to be bookending something but there is no other bookend. 

It just seems to lack any overarching direction.



As to E4, like I said, better than E3, but still deeply flawed. EV-9D9 sees that "it's not rats" and then stupidly keeps walking to investigate instead of raising the alarm. That kind of numbskull behavior is right up there with the one-at-a-time-itis from the town square fight scene in E2. 

Evidently Boba knows the Mods from E3 because they modded Fennec. That wasn't at all made apparent in E3. 

Offing Bib Fortuna seems to have been an afterthought, even though he was the prior boss and, also, a well-known character. He was given short shrift. 

The Pyke Syndicate, while being touted as the Big Bad, really hasn't earned it yet. The mayor was possibly a Big Bad had earned it but was dumped. 

The Nikto Gang, while wrapped up on-screen, is just kind of there and not connected to the Pykes. So, other than a couple of scenes, I see no reason to care about the Pykes. Contrast this to the smarmy twi'lek assistant, who was a character who really earned a better ending than a Biff Tannen car crash. 

I'm not feeling the Pykes as villains. Sorry, just not my cup of tea.


----------



## embee

pukunui said:


> I think it was a mix of time spent in the sarlacc and time spent with the Tuskens.



It couldn't have been more than a few days in the Sarlacc. 

He needed to raid a stormtrooper for air. Not to mention thirst.


----------



## MarkB

embee said:


> It couldn't have been more than a few days in the Sarlacc.
> 
> He needed to raid a stormtrooper for air. Not to mention thirst.



"In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years."

Whatever the actual logistics, it seems like you're expected to last longer than a few days in there.


----------



## embee

MarkB said:


> "In his belly you will find a new definition of pain and suffering as you are slowly digested over a thousand years."
> 
> Whatever the actual logistics, it seems like you're expected to last longer than a few days in there.



I'm beginning to think that Threepio was being a little overly dramatic.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

pukunui said:


> I also note that Boba just refers to his ship as a firespray. It would seem someone at Lucasfilm / Disney is determined to not have it be referred to as _Slave 1 _ever again.




The name of the ship was spoken out loud only once or maybe twice in Clone Wars, but nowhere else, and it would be easy for that to be dubbed out. Otherwise, you have a bunch of non-canon references to the ship's name. And if you include all of those, the thing is not even Slave 1, he is up to Slave 4 post original trilogy. But thankfully none of that stuff counts any more.


----------



## trappedslider

Tbh, my first thought when they killed the Sarlacc: "Must have been something he ate"


----------



## Nikosandros

One thing that is not clear to me is why did Boba say that Bib Fortuna had double-crossed him?


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Nikosandros said:


> One thing that is not clear to me is why did Boba say that Bib Fortuna had double-crossed him?




Probably going to be another flashback for that. We have seen him get his ship back and we have seen him the first time he sat on the throne, but there is still the gap between those two to show us.


----------



## Morrus

So the mods are actually called "Mods".

And "fire in the hole".

And "Daimyo".

Did Star Wars always have these 20th century earth terms and references? I know Lucas largely borrowed from existing earth cultures, but he didn't tend to use the terminology directly, did he? (I'm sure somebody will point out a dozen times he did now!)


----------



## Morrus

pukunui said:


> I note that Fennec actually referred to the biker gang as “the mods”. Yes, it’s because they’re cybernetically modified, but it’s also another reference to Quadrophenia!



Mod isn't so much a reference to Quadrophenia; more like both it and Quadrophenia are references to actual Mods and Rockers from the 1960s.









						Mods and rockers - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


----------



## MarkB

Morrus said:


> So the mods are actually called "Mods".
> 
> And "fire in the hole".
> 
> And "Daimyo".
> 
> Did Star Wars always have these 20th century earth terms and references? I know Lucas largely borrowed from existing earth cultures, but he didn't tend to use the terminology directly, did he? (I'm sure somebody will point out a dozen times he did now!)



I mean, he called a race of fish people Calamari.


----------



## Morrus

MarkB said:


> I mean, he called a race of fish people Calamari.



True, true.


----------



## Rabulias

Morrus said:


> Did Star Wars always have these 20th century earth terms and references? I know Lucas largely borrowed from existing earth cultures, but he didn't tend to use the terminology directly, did he? (I'm sure somebody will point out a dozen times he did now!)



As much as I love _Star Wars_, one of the (tiny) things that bugged me from my very first viewing back in 1977 was Han Solo referencing crop-dusting. It really sounded jarring to me. My friends at the time did not seem bothered by it, and since then I have not heard anyone else complain so I think it was just me.


----------



## pukunui

I'll admit this show isn't as exciting as I was hoping it would be. I'm still enjoying it but it definitely could have done with better pacing. Since they called it the _book_ of Boba Fett, I feel like they should have made each episode a distinct chapter in his life.

Mixing the flashbacks with the present day (via the bacta tank, in which Boba conveniently picks up his memories where he left off the last time) is a bit jarring.

I think it might have worked better as:
Chapter 1: Boba escapes sarlacc and becomes a prisoner of the Tuskens
Chapter 2: Boba earns the Tuskens' respect and is accepted into the tribe
Chapter 3: Tuskens die, Boba goes off alone, finds Fennec and saves her life
Chapter 4: Boba and Fennec recover his ship, get revenge on Niktos and sarlacc, hunt down Mando to recover armor
Chapter 5-7: After killing Bib Fortuna, Boba gets the lay of the land and struggles to win over the local crime families while fending off Hutts, Pykes, etc. (as we've seen in the present day bits)

What do folks think of people's theories that the Pykes aren't the true enemies? Some people are suggesting it'll be Qi'ra and Crimson Dawn behind all of it. I think that's a valid theory, but I feel like this deep into the show, it'll just be a quick reveal at the end with a setup for a second season in which Boba has to take on Qi'ra.


Also, I really hope they're leading up to some kind of thing where Boba ensures the Tuskens get better treatment / recognition of their indigenous rights / etc. It started off looking like that might happen, but then they killed off the tribe in that "I'm adventuring because bandits killed my parents and I want revenge" fashion, which was a little bit of a letdown. I was hoping he'd recruit them to his cause in the present. I don't want the Tuskens to end up being little more than a plot device to help Boba improve his life or something. (Fennec: "The Tuskens made you soft." Boba: "No, they made me strong." Hmm ...)

Oh, one last thing: in this episode, Fennec pays off her debt by helping Boba get his ship back and then chooses to "stick around for the ride" ... so why then did she tell Mando on Tython that she was still indebted to Boba for saving her life? These shows were created by the same people. Did they really forget that detail?



Nikosandros said:


> One thing that is not clear to me is why did Boba say that Bib Fortuna had double-crossed him?



Yeah, I noticed that too. I hope that gets addressed in an upcoming episode.



Morrus said:


> So the mods are actually called "Mods".
> 
> And "fire in the hole".
> 
> And "Daimyo".
> 
> Did Star Wars always have these 20th century earth terms and references? I know Lucas largely borrowed from existing earth cultures, but he didn't tend to use the terminology directly, did he? (I'm sure somebody will point out a dozen times he did now!)



I don't recall anyone ever referring to Jabba as "daimyo" before. That's been rather jarring for me. Less so the other references.



Morrus said:


> Mod isn't so much a reference to Quadrophenia; more like both it and Quadrophenia are references to actual Mods and Rockers from the 1960s.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Mods and rockers - Wikipedia
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> en.wikipedia.org



Well, yes, but I still think there's more than a few nods to Quadrophenia specifically. Did the real mods have a ridiculous number of side mirrors on their Vespas, or was that just Quadrophenia? It was really that minor detail that made me think Quadrophenia. And if you google "Boba Fett Quadrophenia", you'll see I'm not the only one who made that connection.


----------



## Older Beholder

I've been enjoying the series. One thing I didn't really understand...

He gets out of the Sarlacc pit in his armor, but then goes back to the pit thinking it's still inside the Sarlacc?


----------



## trappedslider

The Lizard Wizard said:


> I've been enjoying the series. One thing I didn't really understand...
> 
> He gets out of the Sarlacc pit in his armor, but then goes back to the pit thinking it's still inside the Sarlacc?



He was barely alive, and those thieving Jawas took it off of him without him fighting back.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> I'll admit this show isn't as exciting as I was hoping it would be. I'm still enjoying it but it definitely could have done with better pacing. Since they called it the _book_ of Boba Fett, I feel like they should have made each episode a distinct chapter in his life.
> 
> Mixing the flashbacks with the present day (via the bacta tank, in which Boba conveniently picks up his memories where he left off the last time) is a bit jarring.
> 
> I think it might have worked better as:
> Chapter 1: Boba escapes sarlacc and becomes a prisoner of the Tuskens
> Chapter 2: Boba earns the Tuskens' respect and is accepted into the tribe
> Chapter 3: Tuskens die, Boba goes off alone, finds Fennec and saves her life
> Chapter 4: Boba and Fennec recover his ship, get revenge on Niktos and sarlacc, hunt down Mando to recover armor
> Chapter 5-7: After killing Bib Fortuna, Boba gets the lay of the land and struggles to win over the local crime families while fending off Hutts, Pykes, etc. (as we've seen in the present day bits)
> 
> What do folks think of people's theories that the Pykes aren't the true enemies? Some people are suggesting it'll be Qi'ra and Crimson Dawn behind all of it. I think that's a valid theory, but I feel like this deep into the show, it'll just be a quick reveal at the end with a setup for a second season in which Boba has to take on Qi'ra.
> 
> 
> Also, I really hope they're leading up to some kind of thing where Boba ensures the Tuskens get better treatment / recognition of their indigenous rights / etc. It started off looking like that might happen, but then they killed off the tribe in that "I'm adventuring because bandits killed my parents and I want revenge" fashion, which was a little bit of a letdown. I was hoping he'd recruit them to his cause in the present. I don't want the Tuskens to end up being little more than a plot device to help Boba improve his life or something. (Fennec: "The Tuskens made you soft." Boba: "No, they made me strong." Hmm ...)
> 
> Oh, one last thing: in this episode, Fennec pays off her debt by helping Boba get his ship back and then chooses to "stick around for the ride" ... so why then did she tell Mando on Tython that she was still indebted to Boba for saving her life? These shows were created by the same people. Did they really forget that detail?
> 
> 
> Yeah, I noticed that too. I hope that gets addressed in an upcoming episode.
> 
> 
> I don't recall anyone ever referring to Jabba as "daimyo" before. That's been rather jarring for me. Less so the other references.
> 
> 
> Well, yes, but I still think there's more than a few nods to Quadrophenia specifically. Did the real mods have a ridiculous number of side mirrors on their Vespas, or was that just Quadrophenia? It was really that minor detail that made me think Quadrophenia. And if you google "Boba Fett Quadrophenia", you'll see I'm not the only one who made that connection.




 Yep Mandalorian was picking up steam around episode 4. 

 This one's meandering a bit. If you told me a random Mando could be more interesting than Fett in live action a few years ago....


----------



## Older Beholder

trappedslider said:


> He was barely alive, and those thieving Jawas took it off of him without him fighting back.




I know he was messed up at the time. But did he think he took it off before escaping?, or did he think maybe he took it off after getting out and it had slid back into the pit? I guess the second is possible. Just seemed a strange conclusion to jump to. I'll do a rewatch at some point once it's all out, so I'll try and pay a bit more attention next time.


----------



## pukunui

The Lizard Wizard said:


> I know he was messed up at the time. But did he think he took it off before escaping?, or did he think maybe he took it off after getting out and it had slid back into the pit? I guess the second is possible. Just seemed a strange conclusion to jump to. I'll do a rewatch at some point once it's all out, so I'll try and pay a bit more attention next time.



Yeah, I think he was too "out of it" / in survival mode when he escaped the sarlacc pit to remember that the jawas took his armor off him and just assumed he'd left it behind in the pit.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

embee said:


> I'm beginning to think that Threepio was being a little overly dramatic.



I would interpret it as myth, not literal truth.

Although I don't believe Boba could have been in the Sarlacc for more than a few days, since the crash site was still being looted.

_Five years with the Tuskans_ is a good title for a memoir.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Morrus said:


> So the mods are actually called "Mods".
> 
> And "fire in the hole".
> 
> And "Daimyo".
> 
> Did Star Wars always have these 20th century earth terms and references? I know Lucas largely borrowed from existing earth cultures, but he didn't tend to use the terminology directly, did he? (I'm sure somebody will point out a dozen times he did now!)



I'm pretty sure the "Fire in the Hole" expression was also used in The Clone Wars. The lingua franca of the Star Wars galaxy is modern American English, including idiom and loan words. One could Tolkien it and say it's translated by sense.


----------



## Bolares

embee said:


> Yes.
> 
> And we will be treated to about 2 minutes of "present day" per episode, followed by approximately 53 minutes of flashback showing such crucial events as Boba Fett deciding to shave his head; why Boba Fett's cape has a stain on it (not that stain, the other stain. no, the OTHER other stain); Boba Fett shopping for bacta tanks; Boba Fett driving - IN REAL TIME - to Mos Entha to pick up grain-free rancor chow, and; Boba Fett filling out the rebate card for the bacta tank.
> 
> Oh, and any vaguely menacing criminal that is introduced will immediately be killed to maximize audience letdown misdirection.



Am I the only one that was really in to the flashback scenes?


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Bolares said:


> Am I the only one that was really in to the flashback scenes?



No, I'm happy with the format of telling two stories in separate times that eventually converge. Goes with the "Book of" part of the title.


----------



## embee

Paul Farquhar said:


> I would interpret it as myth, not literal truth.
> 
> Although I don't believe Boba could have been in the Sarlacc for more than a few days, since the crash site was still being looted.
> 
> _Five years with the Tuskans_ is a good title for a memoir.



If the first season was nothing but him with the Tuskens, basically _Dances With Bantha_, I'd be down with that. 

Build it up gradually to where the S1 Big Bad is the Pyke Syndicate in the form of the spice train. Season Finale is the Train Job. Denouement is Boba laying down the law that these are the Tuskens ancestral lands and aren't free for the Pykes to use, yada yada yada. Now you have a full season story arc with an opening for a second season. 

Instead, what could have been a full season that is devoted to addressing issues of colonialism and appropriation in SW, that entire issue was compressed needlessly. 

As to literal truth in SW, people need to understand that characters in SW are _gasp_ capable of lying.

"I don't seem to recall ever owning a droid." 

I mean, it's frikkin' Threepio! Pretty much every word he ever utters is hyperbole. In fact, I wouldn't be surprised to find out that, contrary to his boastful claims, that Threepio speaks only Basic, conversational French, some Latin, and "un poco of Spanish." 

Basically, Threepio is the guy you see doing sign language at local political press conferences and then find out three days later that he wasn't doing ASL at all but was just gesticulating gibberish.


----------



## Rabulias

embee said:


> As to literal truth in SW, people need to understand that characters in SW are _gasp_ capable of lying.



They don't lie; everything is "true from a certain point of view."


----------



## Shades of Eternity

nyet, Threepio is a great translator.  

He just keeps being put into situations where he's completely unsuited.

Not his fault that he's not listened to.


----------



## Morrus

pukunui said:


> Well, yes, but I still think there's more than a few nods to Quadrophenia specifically. Did the real mods have a ridiculous number of side mirrors on their Vespas, or was that just Quadrophenia? It was really that minor detail that made me think Quadrophenia. And if you google "Boba Fett Quadrophenia", you'll see I'm not the only one who made that connection.



Well, I'm not really interested in what people who aren't in this conversation think, so I won't be Googling anything. But yes, the mirrors specifically are reminiscent of that movie, and that particular detail about those mods was likely a nod, but would be pretty reductive if that was the scriptwriter's only influence when including a cultural aspect of another country in their show (I mean maybe it is, and the scriptwriter really is that reductive, but if so what the heck?)

Nah, I think the mods and the bikers (rockers) were based on mods and rockers, and the Quadrophenia mirrors were a little added nod to a specific movie for fun.

Hey, I could be wrong. And maybe lightsabers are based specifically on one single movie which had swords in it, rather than the existence of swords in general! But I suspect otherwise.


----------



## embee

Rabulias said:


> They don't lie; everything is "true from a certain point of view."



"It depends on what your definition of 'is' is."

Obi William Jefferson Kenobi


----------



## embee

Shades of Eternity said:


> nyet, Threepio is a great translator.
> 
> He just keeps being put into situations where he's completely unsuited.
> 
> Not his fault that he's not listened to.



I'm not buying it. 

There's no indication that he was accurately translating anything the Ewoks said. 

Also, most translators don't call people "filthy" standing right by them. 

Like, he straight up said Jawas are filthy standing by the Jawas. 

Worst. Protocol. Droid. EVER!


----------



## MarkB

embee said:


> I'm not buying it.
> 
> There's no indication that he was accurately translating anything the Ewoks said.



Yeah, but they're a pre-spaceflight tribe on an obscure moon. That he could translate their language at all is astonishing.


embee said:


> Also, most translators don't call people "filthy" standing right by them.
> 
> Like, he straight up said Jawas are filthy standing by the Jawas.
> 
> Worst. Protocol. Droid. EVER!



He wasn't being employed to be nice to them. I think he can be cut a little slack for not taking well to the people who imprisoned and sold him.


----------



## FitzTheRuke

Eric V said:


> I get what you're saying but people are still pretty lippy to a guy holding a rifle and a galaxy-wide reputation as willing to use it.  I dunno.  Strikes me as inconsistent.



He's been "dead" for something like seven years. I think his rep has softened.


----------



## Shades of Eternity

Is c-3p0 a hero?
					

edit: going to go for a weekly schedule now.   new posts drop on thursday.   Is c-3p0 a hero?   I'm going to say yes   for starters an opene...




					breadthofpopsanity.blogspot.com
				




Thanks for giving me an excuse to dust off this. 

I'll even add an amendum, where, in the rise of skywalker, where he sacrificed his memory to save the galaxy.


----------



## wicked cool

great episode. not loving the cyberpunk stuff but have no choice but to accept


----------



## Paul Farquhar

embee said:


> I'm not buying it.
> 
> There's no indication that he was accurately translating anything the Ewoks said.
> 
> Also, most translators don't call people "filthy" standing right by them.
> 
> Like, he straight up said Jawas are filthy standing by the Jawas.
> 
> Worst. Protocol. Droid. EVER!



He was built by a 10 year old kid, what kid wouldn't program a droid to be rude, given the opportunity?


----------



## Kobold Stew

embee said:


> I'm beginning to think that Threepio was being a little overly dramatic.


----------



## Kobold Stew

Paul Farquhar said:


> I would interpret it as myth, not literal truth.
> 
> Although I don't believe Boba could have been in the Sarlacc for more than a few days, since the crash site was still being looted.
> 
> _Five years with the Tuskans_ is a good title for a memoir.


----------



## embee

MarkB said:


> Yeah, but they're a pre-spaceflight tribe on an obscure moon. That he could translate their language at all is astonishing.
> 
> He wasn't being employed to be nice to them. I think he can be cut a little slack for not taking well to the people who imprisoned and sold him.



He's a protocol droid. A little bit of diplomacy would be appreciated. At the very least, don't denigrate the local indigenous people to their face.


----------



## Zardnaar

Can The Mandalorian Save The Book of Boba Fett?
					

The Book of Boba Fett needs a lifeline, and the Mandalorian may be just the Star Wars character to save it.




					www.denofgeek.com
				




 Main takeaways. 

1. Making Boba nice may not work. 

2. Boba may be the third most interesting Mandalorian (behind Djin and Bo). 

 Derp.


----------



## MarkB

Zardnaar said:


> 2. Boba may be the third most interesting Mandalorian (behind Djin and Bo).



At best. I'd rate Sabine Wren higher.


----------



## Morrus

So do we think Mando is coming to help? They played the Mando theme at the end when they were talking about hiring muscle.


----------



## Nikosandros

Morrus said:


> So do we think Mando is coming to help? They played the Mando theme at the end when they were talking about hiring muscle.



I noticed that, so yes, I personally think it's very likely that they are going to recruit Mando for the "war".


----------



## Zardnaar

MarkB said:


> At best. I'd rate Sabine Wren higher.




 4th


----------



## CapnZapp

Another disappointment. They could not have written a less exciting introduction to how Fennec Shand met Fett. It was literally connecting the dots only with zero flair or twist.

And talk about wasting an opportunity regarding Fennec's artificial gut. She looks at it, Fett says it was the best he could do, she shrugs, and then nobody mentions it again?!


----------



## Janx

CapnZapp said:


> And talk about wasting an opportunity regarding Fennec's artificial gut. She looks at it, Fett says it was the best he could do, she shrugs, and then nobody mentions it again?!



based on Luke and Anakin hand-choppings, I don't get the feeling that SW people are too attached to the body parts.

Kinda like dogs.  They lose a limb or eyes, and after the initial pain, they get on with life.  Wheras humans need emotional therapy.

One might take the SW way as dismissive, but it's also empowering. They literally get a replacement and get back in the game as fully accepted people.  Not quite true in our society.


----------



## Argyle King

I enjoyed episode 4 a lot more than episode 3 (which was a low point for me).

I'm still watching, and I generally enjoy it. At the same time, the show seems to be struggling to figure out what tone and direction it wants. 

Currently, it has settled into the show I watch when I'm waiting for other things to update.


----------



## Aeson

I think that's a problem with limited series. Unless they know for sure what they want to do and commit to it, they flail about wasting time.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Episode 4 was the mid-point, with 3 episodes to go. Yes, the show has a weird 7-episode run. But anyway, the past and present probably have one more episode of flashbacks left before the show is fully post-Mandalorian, and the action should crank up quite a bit.


----------



## Zardnaar

I don't minda slow burn as long as it's interesting. 

 Episode 3 was the low point with the colour coded Vespas with the Twilight refugee's.


----------



## MarkB

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Episode 4 was the mid-point, with 3 episodes to go. Yes, the show has a weird 7-episode run. But anyway, the past and present probably have one more episode of flashbacks left before the show is fully post-Mandalorian, and the action should crank up quite a bit.



Maybe not even that. The framing device for the flashbacks has always been the bacta tank healing sessions, and he's fully healed as of this episode.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

MarkB said:


> Maybe not even that. The framing device for the flashbacks has always been the bacta tank healing sessions, and he's fully healed as of this episode.




I think there is still one flashback left to cover between when he recovered his ship and when he sits on the throne, to explain why he said Bib double-crossed him and to show him shooting Bib. So far we have only seen the shot in the end credits teaser from The Mandalorian.


----------



## pukunui

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> I think there is still one flashback left to cover between when he recovered his ship and when he sits on the throne, to explain why he said Bib double-crossed him and to show him shooting Bib. So far we have only seen the shot in the end credits teaser from The Mandalorian.



I expect it will also show us how he found out Din had his armor and how he tracked Din to Tython.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

pukunui said:


> I expect it will also show us how he found out Din had his armor and how he tracked Din to Tython.




Yeah, that should be in there too because he eliminated Bib after the events in Mandalorian, since he has his armor there.


----------



## infinityman

Not much to spoil. Episode 2 was really fun, the rest has been blah.


----------



## CapnZapp

Janx said:


> based on Luke and Anakin hand-choppings, I don't get the feeling that SW people are too attached to the body parts.
> 
> Kinda like dogs.  They lose a limb or eyes, and after the initial pain, they get on with life.  Wheras humans need emotional therapy.
> 
> One might take the SW way as dismissive, but it's also empowering. They literally get a replacement and get back in the game as fully accepted people.  Not quite true in our society.



While I can see an argument such as "Fennec is too bad ass to care" it really ends up shafting the actress (Min Na Wen). We've waited long for an episode giving her nuance and depth, and....

Nothing. She remains a complete unknown, which makes her uninteresting in my eyes. You'd think she'd be driven by greed, but this episode showed that there was nothing interesting about her partnership with Fett. Just wishy-washy do-gooder stuff, with no real reason why. (As opposed to, say, Fett not simply releasing her from being indebted to him for saving her life after exactly one (1) short mission).

She's basically nothing more than the inevitable action figurine.

Compare to Krrsantan, the black Wookie. The scene where he could have let the lizard man go, but still decided to tear him apart, instantly made him much cooler and interesting. He already has all the motivation he needs (to accept working for Fett); after all Fett released him when he should have killed him.

Imagine how many much more interesting setups this episode could have given us for Shand. Even the tired old "road to redemption" would have been something. But we can do much better without even trying. Fett realizing Shand works for really terrible people or has committed an atrocity in the past, and not releasing her from her debt until he's made her see his point. (Making Shand resentful while at the same time reluctantly admiring Fett would at least be something for Wen to hook onto!) The new gut not working perfectly (after all, why would a random bodymod parlor be capable of permanently fixing an injury as serious as this? If this type of tech is as cheap and bountiful as this it makes you wonder how many Stormtrooper lives could have been saved...), so Shand tagging along until she can pay for a proper upgrade.

Makes you shake your head at how they went with the most obvious most pedestrian least intriguing choice at every juncture.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Have you seen Shand's episodes in The Bad Batch? She is already portrayed as less dark than the average Bounty Hunter. Boba's TCWs episodes are also telling. He has "a lot of blood on his ledger" having killed thousands to get at one target, destroying a Star Destroyer whilst still a kid, but he is also troubled by a conscience, refusing to murder defenceless hostages.

I wouldn't be surprised if the big twist is _Shand betrays Boba_ though.


----------



## Staffan

CapnZapp said:


> Compare to Krrsantan, the black Wookie. The scene where he could have let the lizard man go, but still decided to tear him apart, instantly made him much cooler and interesting. He already has all the motivation he needs (to accept working for Fett); after all Fett released him when he should have killed him.



I got the feeling that Garsa Fwip was pretty much getting through to him and that Krrsantan was on the verge of letting the Trandoshan go, when she mentioned "Oh, and if you do we'll clear your drinking tab as well." So tearing off the arm was sort of his way of saying "Eff you, you can't buy his life (or arm) that cheap."

Regarding the series in general, so far it's been really appropriate to Boba Fett. Hyped up, looks really cool at first glance, but ultimately disappointing.


----------



## Zardnaar

So Fett's face turn isn't working or the execution of it? 

 In legends he was more of a badass. They softened him a bit but didn't try and turn him as a Babyface. 

 In his last story arc He trained Jaina Solo to fight dirty vs her brother who was doing the Sith Lord thing. And he became Mandalore reestablishing the Mandalorians.


----------



## Rabulias

Staffan said:


> I got the feeling that Garsa Fwip was pretty much getting through to him and that Krrsantan was on the verge of letting the Trandoshan go, when she mentioned "Oh, and if you do we'll clear your drinking tab as well." So tearing off the arm was sort of his way of saying "Eff you, you can't buy his life (or arm) that cheap."



IMO, Fwip talked him down from tearing off _both _arms.


----------



## Argyle King

Staffan said:


> I got the feeling that Garsa Fwip was pretty much getting through to him and that Krrsantan was on the verge of letting the Trandoshan go, when she mentioned "Oh, and if you do we'll clear your drinking tab as well." So tearing off the arm was sort of his way of saying "Eff you, you can't buy his life (or arm) that cheap."
> 
> Regarding the series in general, so far it's been really appropriate to Boba Fett. Hyped up, looks really cool at first glance, but ultimately disappointing.




Trandoshans and Wookies also have a long history of conflict.


----------



## Staffan

Argyle King said:


> Trandoshans and Wookies also have a long history of conflict.



Well, yes. I assume that's why he attacked them to begin with. But I was thinking about his facial expressions, where it looked like he was thinking "Yeah, she's making a lot of sense, maybe I shouldn't do this..." until she mentioned the bar tab.

Also, I'm not sure if these were the same Trandoshans that presented Boba Fett a Wookie pelt as tribute.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Ryujin

Staffan said:


> Well, yes. I assume that's why he attacked them to begin with. But I was thinking about his facial expressions, where it looked like he was thinking "Yeah, she's making a lot of sense, maybe I shouldn't do this..." until she mentioned the bar tab.



I could almost hear his thoughts at that moment: "Don't patronize me B...." < Riiiiiip >


----------



## Zardnaar

Argyle King said:


> Trandoshans and Wookies also have a long history of conflict.




 In legends but it may have carried over or from the cartoon's as I can't remember Clone Wars to much. 

 It was a throwback to Hans comments about chewie ripping arms off.


----------



## Maxperson

I liked episode 4.  My main issue was with Fennec's Arcane Eye spell.  The purpose of the eye is to be unnoticed, so why put bright red lights around it?


----------



## Staffan

Maxperson said:


> I liked episode 4.  My main issue was with Fennec's Arcane Eye spell.  The purpose of the eye is to be unnoticed, so why put bright red lights around it?



So people know where not to look for it, of course.


----------



## Nilbog

Maxperson said:


> I liked episode 4.  My main issue was with Fennec's Arcane Eye spell.  The purpose of the eye is to be unnoticed, so why put bright red lights around it?




I also wondered this, and while it's not the best excuse I think it was done for ease of viewing, if they'd made it super stealthy and invisible, we, the viewers would be a little lost. I tried to reconcile it be believing the lights were Infrared. 

As for the rest of the show, I'm really enjoying it. It has some pacing issues, and I wasn't overly keen on the mods asthetics, but I like what they've done with Boba, and for me they are doing a good job of explaining why the changes.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Zardnaar said:


> In legends but it may have carried over or from the cartoon's as I can't remember Clone Wars to much.



Yeah, it's in TCW. There is a whole story arc involving Trandoshans hunting Wookiees for sport. It's mentioned that their homeworlds are near each other in the same episode.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Maxperson said:


> I liked episode 4.  My main issue was with Fennec's Arcane Eye spell.  The purpose of the eye is to be unnoticed, so why put bright red lights around it?



Why do probe droids go bleep deba bleep bleep? I can think of a whole bunch video games that would be a lot harder if they where silent.


----------



## Zardnaar

Paul Farquhar said:


> Yeah, it's in TCW. There is a whole story arc involving Trandoshans hunting Wookiees for sport. It's mentioned that their homeworlds are near each other in the same episode.




 Yeah that's the same as legends which clonne wars drew on. 

 The cartoon backdoors some legends concepts into the new cannon. KotoR remake might do the same thing.


----------



## Morrus

Maxperson said:


> I liked episode 4.  My main issue was with Fennec's Arcane Eye spell.  The purpose of the eye is to be unnoticed, so why put bright red lights around it?



Yeah we commented on that too. I don't know how anybody could miss it!


----------



## pukunui

Maxperson said:


> I liked episode 4.  My main issue was with Fennec's Arcane Eye spell.  The purpose of the eye is to be unnoticed, so why put bright red lights around it?



She was also like “Let’s approach quietly” and then proceeded to noisily step in the water and burn / kick the bars down. My girls were like “That’s not being very quiet!”


----------



## Ryujin

< Insert Appropriate Meme Here >


----------



## Argyle King

Zardnaar said:


> In legends but it may have carried over or from the cartoon's as I can't remember Clone Wars to much.
> 
> It was a throwback to Hans comments about chewie ripping arms off.




I didn't watch Clone Wars. 

I was introduced to the history of their conflict via Edge of the Empire.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> She was also like “Let’s approach quietly” and then proceeded to noisily step in the water and burn / kick the bars down. My girls were like “That’s not being very quiet!”



Sounds like a fairly typical D&D game though...


----------



## Zardnaar

Argyle King said:


> I didn't watch Clone Wars.
> 
> I was introduced to the history of their conflict via Edge of the Empire.




 Edge of the Empire was based off legends as well. 

 It's an old trope going back at least to mid 90's. Perhaps older. Maybe D6 RPG?


----------



## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> Edge of the Empire was based off legends as well.
> 
> It's an old trope going back at least to mid 90's. Perhaps older. Maybe D6 RPG?



I miss that game; both running and playing it. Still have all of the books that I bought for it, way back when.


----------



## Zardnaar

Ryujin said:


> I miss that game; both running and playing it. Still have all of the books that I bought for it, way back when.




 Same plus SWSE currently playing KotoR


----------



## pukunui

New episode tonight! Will we see Mando or will they make us wait?

EDIT: Holy crap, this is basically an episode of the Mandalorian!

And there’s a BD droid like in Jedi Fallen Order!

The nostalgia is heavy with this episode. A Naboo Royal star fighter. Beggar’s canyon. Etc.

Boba’s not even in it!

They answered the question of what happened to Bo-Katan and the darksaber in a satisfying way.

It’s a shame Din’s been kicked out of his tribe but I suppose it had to happen in order for him to continue to grow as a character.

I’m glad he wants to see Grogu again. Did he get the Armorer to make Grogu a little beskar chain shirt? Maybe he ends up surviving Kylo Ren’s attack in the same way Frodo survived being stuck by the cave troll!

Amy Sedaris is always a hoot.

Man, that was an awesome episode!


----------



## MarkB

Possibly the best episode of the season. And it doesn't feature Boba Fett.


----------



## Ryujin

Mando's '57 Chevy looks a bit rough.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> Mando's '57 Chevy looks a bit rough.



She may not look like much, but she's got it where it counts.


----------



## trappedslider

Typing while watching:

Still isn't used to using the saber

It's a not halo ring city :O






_starts humming Ten duel commandments_

"Sorry no religious exemptions"

"Ship like this will be with you till the day you day"
"That's because it's a death trap"

And now we know what's under the outfit of  Jawas ...fur....also squick

(Cannon ball run quote)
California Highway Patrolman:
Headquarters, we are still in pursuit of the black Lamborghini.

Dispatcher:
Car 42, you've been in pursuit for two hours. Another five minutes and you'll be in Arizona.

California Highway Patrolman:
Yeah, and we're going to stay in pursuit until we catch them.

Dispatcher:
It didn't take us THAT long to catch Dillinger.

Bryce did good work on this, she's not one I would expect behind the camera.


----------



## MarkB

The Naboo starfighter is a cool ship, but it doesn't seem too practical for a bounty hunter. I suppose you could wedge a modest-size bounty target in the converted droid socket, but it'll be a tight squeeze.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> The Naboo starfighter is a cool ship, but it doesn't seem too practical for a bounty hunter. I suppose you could wedge a modest-size bounty target in the converted droid socket, but it'll be a tight squeeze.



Not if all that you need is the head. Then it's good for a few trips, before emptying.


----------



## Rabulias

MarkB said:


> The Naboo starfighter is a cool ship, but it doesn't seem too practical for a bounty hunter. I suppose you could wedge a modest-size bounty target in the converted droid socket, but it'll be a tight squeeze.



I am picturing a co-pilot seat for Grogu in the former droid socket, but yeah, Mando needs more room for his bounties.


----------



## wicked cool

agreed on bounties and size of ship-my guess its a short term solution

excellent episode overall. didnt love the portion of building the ship (felt like filler). the rest was good

Is the sword sentient? almost sounded like it was based on how heavy/light it would become

i wonder if grogu will be seen again before new mandalorian or will the boba battle not happen until next season?


----------



## pukunui

wicked cool said:


> Is the sword sentient? almost sounded like it was based on how heavy/light it would become



I don’t think it’s any more sentient than the Force normally is. (Being a lightsaber crafted by a Jedi, it will be connected to the Force and will be difficult for someone who isn’t a Jedi to wield properly.)


----------



## pukunui

trappedslider said:


> Bryce did good work on this, she's not one I would expect behind the camera.



She is killing it!

In case you weren’t aware, she also directed two episodes of the Mandalorian: the one in S1 where Mando takes refuge on that agrarian planet and meets Cara Dune, and the one in S2 where he meets Bo-Katan.


----------



## CapnZapp

This was neat - but is anyone else bothered by how clearly this showed how much better a show The Mandalorian is/was...?


----------



## Zardnaar

CapnZapp said:


> This was neat - but is anyone else bothered by how clearly this showed how much better a show The Mandalorian is/was...?




 Had that thought. Boba got shown up in his own show. 

 Near the end we were thinking "is boba cameoing in his own show?

 Laughed at the Mythosaurvis onlt in legends. 

 Overall great episode of "The Mandalorian: Halo& Terminator edition".


----------



## MarkB

Rabulias said:


> I am picturing a co-pilot seat for Grogu in the former droid socket, but yeah, Mando needs more room for his bounties.



I suppose it could stretch to maybe an underslung cargo unit big enough for a single carbonite pallet. Of course, he'd have to change his line to "I can bring you in cold, or I can bring your head in cold."


----------



## pukunui

Yeah, I have to say that the “ring world” thing was a bit too Star Trek for my tastes (haven’t ever played Halo), but otherwise this was an awesome episode of the Mandalorian … I mean, Boba Fett.

I am completely satisfied with the way it tied everything together re: the darksaber and Bo-Katan and the destruction of Mandalore, etc.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Now we know why the weird 7-episode length to the show. And it makes a good bridge to the eventual season 3 of Mandalorian.


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> Yeah, I have to say that the “ring world” thing was a bit too Star Trek for my tastes (haven’t ever played Halo), but otherwise this was an awesome episode of the Mandalorian … I mean, Boba Fett.



It had elements of Halo, but it mostly reminded me of Crescentia spaceport from Treasure Planet.


And no, the substituted soundtrack wasn't a deliberate choice, however appropriate - this was just the only clip of it I could find on Youtube.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> Yeah, I have to say that the “ring world” thing was a bit too Star Trek for my tastes (haven’t ever played Halo), but otherwise this was an awesome episode of the Mandalorian … I mean, Boba Fett.
> 
> I am completely satisfied with the way it tied everything together re: the darksaber and Bo-Katan and the destruction of Mandalore, etc.




 It was good but it should have been in The Mandalorian IMHO. Djin making an appearance is fine though.

 I got Terminator vibes on the purge of Mandalore cut scene. Those droids knocking the Mando helmet for example.

  So Dances With Banthas and the Mandalorian featuring Fennec best episodes of the season so far IMHO.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I agree with everyone else. This was the best episode so far, and it didn't even have Boba in it. I'm way more attached to how Mando ends up dealing with his being raised in a cult, how/if/when he gets to interact with Grogu again, and the future of Mandalore than I am with . . . if Boba Fett gets to set up a "respectful" crime syndicate in Jabba's place.


----------



## Maxperson

MarkB said:


> Possibly the best episode of the season. And it doesn't feature Boba Fett.



That's what I was thinking.  And it's not "possibly" with me.


----------



## Maxperson

MarkB said:


> The Naboo starfighter is a cool ship, but it doesn't seem too practical for a bounty hunter. I suppose you could wedge a modest-size bounty target in the converted droid socket, but it'll be a tight squeeze.



As long as he's collecting them as heads, he has plenty of room.


----------



## MarkB

Much as I liked the episode, it does seem bizarre placing it here. Not only does its presence within The Book of Boba Fett undermine what standing the title character had, its absence from The Mandalorian will feel like a continuity hole when watching that series as a whole.


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> I got Terminator vibes on the purge of Mandalore cut scene. Those droids knocking the Mando helmet for example.



Yes! Those Imperial security droids even resemble terminators in a superficial way.

It seems the series creators are intent on inserting as many Star Wars callbacks and pop culture references as possible.


----------



## Mallus

Damn that was good. So the Fett show only exists as support for The Mandalorian?


----------



## Rabulias

I think that Din will fulfill the prophecy, restoring and/or reunifying the Mandalorians in some way. If I am correct, then Mandalorians at some future time recounting this legend in a biblical/religious manner might well have a portion of the legend called "The Book of Boba Fett."


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Zardnaar said:


> I got Terminator vibes on the purge of Mandalore cut scene. Those droids knocking the Mando helmet for example.



Absolutely a Terminator homage.


pukunui said:


> I don’t think it’s any more sentient than the Force normally is. (Being a lightsaber crafted by a Jedi, it will be connected to the Force and will be difficult for someone who isn’t a Jedi to wield properly.)



Does it contain a Kyber crystal, or is that not yet established?


pukunui said:


> Yeah, I have to say that the “ring world” thing was a bit too Star Trek for my tastes



Star Wars has a history of grandiose structures, and there has already been a ringworld in TCW. It doesn't have to be hard SF.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Question about the Dark Saber:

Why is it heavy? The blade of a lightsaber is supposed to be some type of Plasma, but the Darksaber is different. I've seen a theory that the blade is a . . . sword-shaped black hole (which fits the appearance, but is pretty absurd, even by Star Wars' standards), which would explain it weighing more than a normal lightsaber, but there's a lot of holes in this theory (the fact that the gravity of the black hole would suck in everything around it and devour entire planets is the main one).

Is it because the hilt is made of Beskar? Is Beskar shown to be heavier than normal metals? From what we've seen of it so far, I wouldn't assume that, as Mando walks around in Beskar armor all the time and doesn't seem particularly weighed down by it. Just wondering if there's any canonical answer to this, or even theories as to why it's depicted as being heavy/hard to swing.


----------



## MarkB

The whole "Beskar is used for armour, not weapons" thing came across as an oddly contrived reason for getting rid of the Beskar spear, especially since one of the first ever things we see being manufactured from Beskar are the "singing birds" homing darts. And I notice nobody suggested melting down the Beskar hilt of the Darksaber.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

There are a few things to note here:

The person who took the Darksabre in battle then gave it to Bo-Katan was Sabine Wren (Rebels). She is due to be in Ahsoka, so that show might deal with her responsibility (if you believe the prophesy) for the destruction of Mandalore.

The characterisation of Boba Fett in TCW was "confused kid" not "ultimate bad-ass". This show continues this. I think the later was discarded with Legends.

This show might be more significant in how it links to the Bad Batch, and Boba's (Alpha's) clone kid sister.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

MarkB said:


> The whole "Beskar is used for armour, not weapons" thing came across as an oddly contrived reason for getting rid of the Beskar spear, especially since one of the first ever things we see being manufactured from Beskar are the "singing birds" homing darts. And I notice nobody suggested melting down the Beskar hilt of the Darksaber.



And didn't the Armorer immediately begin training Mando in fighting by using the Dark Saber while using metal weapons that can deflect its blows, which only beskar can do?


----------



## Paul Farquhar

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Why is it heavy?



Space magic.


AcererakTriple6 said:


> And didn't the Armorer immediately begin training Mando in fighting by using the Dark Saber while using metal weapons that can deflect its blows, which only beskar can do?



She didn't need to use a weapon, since Din Djarin was unable to master it.

Note that this is because may be because either:

a) he has yet to prove himself worthy (needs to atone for removing his helmet);

b) It's not rightfully his. Bo-Katan was gifted it, Moff Gideon stole it. Sabine Wren remains it's true master.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Paul Farquhar said:


> Space magic.



So, you're saying that a SPACE Wizard did it?


----------



## MarkB

AcererakTriple6 said:


> And didn't the Armorer immediately begin training Mando in fighting by using the Dark Saber while using metal weapons that can deflect its blows, which only beskar can do?



She was using her forging tools, which weren't built as weapons. Loophole!


----------



## Paul Farquhar

AcererakTriple6 said:


> So, you're saying that a SPACE Wizard did it?



That's jedi to you.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

MarkB said:


> She was using her forging tools, which weren't built as weapons. Loophole!



So, making weapons out of Beskar is a no-go, but making tools out of Beskar and then using them as weapons is perfectly fine, as is making the hilt of a weapon out of Beskar, so long as the part that you're actually using as a weapon isn't made of Beskar. 

I love the Mandalorian, but this is absolute nonsense. (Well, given that an extremist cult of zealots made up these rules, that could be an in-world explanation for that, but that's still a pretty weak argument.)


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Question about the Dark Saber:
> 
> Why is it heavy? The blade of a lightsaber is supposed to be some type of Plasma, but the Darksaber is different. I've seen a theory that the blade is a . . . sword-shaped black hole (which fits the appearance, but is pretty absurd, even by Star Wars' standards), which would explain it weighing more than a normal lightsaber, but there's a lot of holes in this theory (the fact that the gravity of the black hole would suck in everything around it and devour entire planets is the main one).
> 
> Is it because the hilt is made of Beskar? Is Beskar shown to be heavier than normal metals? From what we've seen of it so far, I wouldn't assume that, as Mando walks around in Beskar armor all the time and doesn't seem particularly weighed down by it. Just wondering if there's any canonical answer to this, or even theories as to why it's depicted as being heavy/hard to swing.




No no no. Go back and watch again. When he is just using it as a weapon while on the bounty hunt at the beginning of the episode, he used it just fine. No weight issue. That only started when he began training with it and was trying to master/control the sword just by strength and force of will. The sword resisted that and grew heavier the more Din tried. Whether that is just how the Force flows through the blade, we don't know. And if Din is not Force sensitive, he may never fully control it.


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> Does it contain a Kyber crystal, or is that not yet established?



Everything we officially know about it is recorded in the Darksaber entry on Wookieepedia, and according to it, the _Ultimate Star Wars _book established that it does, indeed, have a kyber crystal. It must be a unique one!



Paul Farquhar said:


> Star Wars has a history of grandiose structures, and there has already been a ringworld in TCW. It doesn't have to be hard SF.



I don't remember there being a ringworld in the Clone Wars. But that's OK. I'll get over my initial reaction here.

EDIT: Apparently this ringworld is known as Glavis.



AcererakTriple6 said:


> Why is it heavy?



I think it's meant to be a psychological/spiritual thing. Since it's a lightsaber, it's attuned to the Force. Even if you're not a Force-wielder, you still kind of have to get in the right mental/spiritual zone (aka become attuned to it) in order to be able to wield it properly. Otherwise it "fights" you, thus making it _feel_ heavy.



AcererakTriple6 said:


> So, making weapons out of Beskar is a no-go, but making tools out of Beskar and then using them as weapons is perfectly fine, as is making the hilt of a weapon out of Beskar, so long as the part that you're actually using as a weapon isn't made of Beskar.
> 
> I love the Mandalorian, but this is absolute nonsense. (Well, given that an extremist cult of zealots made up these rules, that could be an in-world explanation for that, but that's still a pretty weak argument.)



For one thing, I think we may be placing too much power in the Armorer's words. She is clearly a biased narrator. There's a lot of sense in what she says about Bo-Katan but that could also just be, like, her opinion, man. 

Bo-Katan, in turn, has plenty of biases of her own. She was pretty dismissive of Din's cult, despite it being an offshoot of Death Watch (which she was part of in her youth), and she was downright hostile toward Boba Fett. She's also got clear aristocratic leanings.

I think this just goes to show how tribal the Mandalorian culture still is, even after the Imperial purge. They fought each other so much in previous millennia that they ruined their homeworld's ecosystem (which is why they're seen living in enclosed bubble cities in the Clone Wars and is the impetus for Bo-Katan's sister Satine's push toward pacifism) and severely damaged their colony world of Concord Dawn (which is where Jango Fett became a foundling incidentally).



Enevhar Aldarion said:


> No no no. Go back and watch again. When he is just using it as a weapon while on the bounty hunt at the beginning of the episode, he used it just fine. No weight issue. That only started when he began training with it and was trying to master/control the sword just by strength and force of will. The sword resisted that and grew heavier the more Din tried. Whether that is just how the Force flows through the blade, we don't know. And if Din is not Force sensitive, he may never fully control it.



Sabine mastered it, didn't she? And she's not (yet) been shown to be Force sensitive. And the Armorer seemed to think Din could master it. He just needed to get his mind/spirit sorted out. I expect the showrunners are building up to Din becoming the new ruler of Mandalore.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Point: "it feels heavy" may apply to _any_ lightsabre if the user isn't properly attuned to it's kyber crystal. That's why non-jedi tend not to use them.

Theory: non-jedi can still attune to kyber crystals, but it's a lot easier if you are force-sensitive.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> For one thing, I think we may be placing too much power in the Armorer's words. She is clearly a biased narrator.



It's clear she doesn't think much of Obi-Wan's girlfriend either.

The horns on her helmet are reminiscent of Maul's Mandalorian followers.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> I don't remember there being a ringworld in the Clone Wars.



Season 6, Episode 1 "The Unknown". It's a lot smaller than Glavis, apparently built around a gas giant planet if my memory serves.


----------



## MarkB

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> No no no. Go back and watch again. When he is just using it as a weapon while on the bounty hunt at the beginning of the episode, he used it just fine. No weight issue. That only started when he began training with it and was trying to master/control the sword just by strength and force of will. The sword resisted that and grew heavier the more Din tried. Whether that is just how the Force flows through the blade, we don't know. And if Din is not Force sensitive, he may never fully control it.



He wasn't exactly having a great time of it even in that first fight. He did manage to wound his own leg with it.

I agree with the comment that it's largely a psychological weight. Sabine Wren had to go through a similar training process before she could wield it properly, and she had Jedi to train her.


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> The horns on her helmet are reminiscent of Maul's Mandalorian followers.



Ooh, now there’s a thought! I wonder if the Children of the Watch were influenced by Maul’s leadership of Death Watch.

That would certainly add more nuance to Bo-Katan’s dismissive opinion of them.


----------



## reelo

pukunui said:


> Ooh, now there’s a thought! I wonder if the Children of the Watch were influenced by Maul’s leadership of Death Watch.
> 
> That would certainly add more nuance to Bo-Katan’s dismissive opinion of them.



Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Armorer's Coven is an offspring of the Deathwatch. They're basically Mando-Taliban.


----------



## Wolfram stout

My guess is that we are still heading to a big cross-over (just without Cara Dune and the Rangers show).  I think we will see part (or the majority) of Mando season 3 being him exploring the Darksaber and in Ashoka we will see Sabine either teach him how to become one with it or she will win it from him (non-lethal combat) and become the leader of a re-emerging Mandalore.


----------



## Mezuka

I really don't get the big buzz about this week's episode. I found it very predictable. They didn't have to make a full episode to get the Mando to join Bobba.


----------



## billd91

AcererakTriple6 said:


> I love the Mandalorian, but this is absolute nonsense. (Well, given that an extremist cult of zealots made up these rules, that could be an in-world explanation for that, but that's still a pretty weak argument.)



That's a zealous sect for you. There aren't reasons as much as rules to follow that may be idiosyncratic, even somewhat contradictory. There is no why, there just is. And asking why just indicates lack of the all-important faith.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Mezuka said:


> I really don't get the big buzz about this week's episode. I found it very predictable. They didn't have to make a full episode to get the Mando to join Bobba.



No, but they needed a full episode to throw Mando out of the order, establish a new atonement quest, foreshadow developments with Grogu and the darksabre, and get him a new ship.


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> No, but they needed a full episode to throw Mando out of the order, establish a new atonement quest, foreshadow developments with Grogu and the darksabre, and get him a new ship.



Of note, they've got him firmly pointed at delving into the depths of Mandalore now, which means he'll probably be diving blindly into politics he neither knows not cares about. Good luck convincing anyone that he's showing up there with the Darksaber and delving into lost holy sites purely to get back into his little club, rather than as a power play.


----------



## Mallus

I loved that Mando's new ship has a place to insert Baby Yoda right behind the cockpit, also that Amy Sedaris hooked up with a Jawa.

The more I think about it, the more I'm convinced this Boba Fett show is a kind of miniseries/side story. The quirky, Star Wars-y details it serves up are great, and largely the point of the show. I don't think it's supposed to have a strong narrative thrust, or a second season for that matter. It is Mando season 2.5.


----------



## embee

Not gonna lie...

I let out a little gasp at BD-1.


----------



## embee

AcererakTriple6 said:


> So, making weapons out of Beskar is a no-go, but making tools out of Beskar and then using them as weapons is perfectly fine, as is making the hilt of a weapon out of Beskar, so long as the part that you're actually using as a weapon isn't made of Beskar.
> 
> I love the Mandalorian, but this is absolute nonsense. (Well, given that an extremist cult of zealots made up these rules, that could be an in-world explanation for that, but that's still a pretty weak argument.)



Let me give you a real-world example of something like this...

There are 39 activities that are not permitted on Shabbos. All have loopholes.

For example "sorting" is prohibited. Now, let's say there is a bowl of mixed peanuts and raisins. You want the peanuts but not the raisins. Removing (effectively sorting) the raisins from the bowl, leaving a 'purified' pile of peanuts free from unwanted raisins, would be sorting or purification as the raisins are removed. However, removing the _desirable_ peanuts from the raisins does not purify the mixture, as one is left with undesirable raisins (hence unrefined), which is NOT a refined component as before, and is thus permissible.

Yeah... it's absolute nonsense. And I completely buy the argument as part of the Mandalorian religion.


----------



## Maxperson

Paul Farquhar said:


> Space magic.
> 
> She didn't need to use a weapon, since Din Djarin was unable to master it.
> 
> Note that this is because may be because either:
> 
> a) he has yet to prove himself worthy (needs to atone for removing his helmet);
> 
> b) It's not rightfully his. Bo-Katan was gifted it, Moff Gideon stole it. Sabine Wren remains it's true master.



She was using beskar hammers, which are her forging tools, not specifically weapons.


----------



## Maxperson

Mallus said:


> I loved that Mando's new ship has a place to insert Baby Yoda right behind the cockpit, also that Amy Sedaris hooked up with a Jawa.



CLEARLY that space was for heads.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Maxperson said:


> She was using beskar hammers, which are her forging tools, not specifically weapons.



One feels she could have kicked his butt with a beskar toothpick.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

embee said:


> Not gonna lie...
> 
> I let out a little gasp at BD-1.



Art of BD riding on Motto's back in the end credits...


----------



## Wolfram stout

MarkB said:


> The whole "Beskar is used for armour, not weapons" thing came across as an oddly contrived reason for getting rid of the Beskar spear, especially since one of the first ever things we see being manufactured from Beskar are the "singing birds" homing darts. And I notice nobody suggested melting down the Beskar hilt of the Darksaber.




The Armorer is just upset that her D&D Dwarven Druid couldn't wear Beskar Armor so she is taking it out on Mando.  That scene will be shown when they do the end of season behind the scene special.


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> Art of BD riding on Motto's back in the end credits...



Aww. I missed that. I'll have to go back and rewatch.


----------



## embee

reelo said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Armorer's Coven is an offspring of the Deathwatch. They're basically Mando-Taliban.



If anyone is the Taliban in Star Wars, it's the Jedi.

Star Wars: A movie about a religious zealot and guerilla leader living in a hideout in a mountainous desert who indoctrinates a dissatisfied youth and leads him to use fly his plane into a government structure to strike out against an imperialist power as part of a civil war.

Osama bin Kenobi


----------



## pukunui

reelo said:


> Yeah, I'm pretty sure the Armorer's Coven is an offspring of the Deathwatch. They're basically Mando-Taliban.



Yes, it's right there in their name: "Children of the *Watch*". There's only the one "Watch" we know of in Mandalorian culture.


----------



## Maxperson

pukunui said:


> Yes, it's right there in their name: "Children of the *Watch*". There's only the one "Watch" we know of in Mandalorian culture.



The Darkseiko?


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> Yes, it's right there in their name: "Children of the *Watch*". There's only the one "Watch" we know of in Mandalorian culture.



Darn it, you got me thinking of what other similarly named organisations there could be, and now I'm imagining a Mandalorian Springwatch.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> Darn it, you got me thinking of what other similarly named organisations there could be, and now I'm imagining a Mandalorian Springwatch.



Grogu's race "Pocket Watch."


----------



## pukunui

Anyone else now wishing we had Mando season 3 already? It probably won't be out till the end of this year, though, eh?


----------



## Argyle King

I don't think what the armorer said is necessarily odd if you parse the context of the entire statement.

Is it a product of religious zealotry? Yeah, somewhat.

However, she also seems to be expressing that Beskar is a special material because of its protective properties; spreading around weapons (and the knowledge to make them) which can nullify those properties is dangerous.

What do you think are the chances that Mando's new ride gets wrecked trying to help Boba, so Boba gives Mando the Firespray as a reward?


----------



## reelo

Argyle King said:


> What do you think are the chances that Mando's new ride gets wrecked trying to help Boba, so Boba gives Mando the Firespray as a reward?




To be honest, I hope not. I think the souped-up N-1 fits Din very well, provided he doesn't rely on bounty-hunting anymore.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

reelo said:


> To be honest, I hope not. I think the souped-up N-1 fits Din very well, provided he doesn't rely on bounty-hunting anymore.



I wouldn't want to have to live in it. Which would you prefer to sleep in: an old camper van or a classic sportscar?


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> I wouldn't want to have to live in it. Which would you prefer to sleep in: an old camper van or a classic sportscar?



Yeah, he'll have to stay in a lot more motels now, but it's fast enough that he'll basically never need to spend hours on end just flying through space in it. Maybe he can get himself a nice little apartment on Navarro, and commute to jobs.


----------



## shaneblack

Paul Farquhar said:


> Space magic.
> 
> She didn't need to use a weapon, since Din Djarin was unable to master it.
> 
> Note that this is because may be because either:
> 
> a) he has yet to prove himself worthy (needs to atone for removing his helmet);
> 
> b) It's not rightfully his. Bo-Katan was gifted it, Moff Gideon stole it. Sabine Wren remains it's true master.



Sabine stole it from Maul's room on dathomir


----------



## shaneblack

Paul Farquhar said:


> Space magic.
> 
> She didn't need to use a weapon, since Din Djarin was unable to master it.
> 
> Note that this is because may be because either:
> 
> a) he has yet to prove himself worthy (needs to atone for removing his helmet);
> 
> b) It's not rightfully his. Bo-Katan was gifted it, Moff Gideon stole it. Sabine Wren remains it's true master.



Sabine stole it from Maul's room on dathomir


----------



## shaneblack

shaneblack said:


> Sabine stole it from Maul's room on dathomir



Palpatine's defeated maul so that make palpatine the rightful owner of the darksaber


shaneblack said:


> Sabine stole it from Maul's room on dathomir


----------



## shaneblack

shaneblack said:


> Palpatine's defeated maul so that make palpatine the rightful owner of the darksaber



Palatine's is actually the owner of the dark saber by beating maul....Sabine stole it from maul after his defeat at the hands of palpatine


----------



## MarkB

shaneblack said:


> Sabine stole it from Maul's room on dathomir



And then it was taken from her, and then she won it back from Gar Saxon in single combat.

Nothing says you have to win it in combat from its _rightful_ owner - just from its current owner.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> And then it was taken from her, and then she won it back from Gar Saxon in single combat.
> 
> Nothing says you have to win it in combat from its _rightful_ owner - just from its current owner.



So,it's not the Elder Wand.


----------



## Maxperson

shaneblack said:


> Palpatine's defeated maul so that make palpatine the rightful owner of the darksaber



Vader killed Palpatine and Luke beat Vader, but in the wrong order, so I guess Vader died as the rightful owner.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

trappedslider said:


> So,it's not the Elder Wand.



It probably isn't space magic to that extent.

I would say that, aside from symbolism, the darksabre is the same as any other lightsabre. Any jedi could pick up and use it effectively, but in order for a non-jedi to wield it effectively they have to be in tune with the Force. That means self-belief. Sabine needed extensive training from a jedi before being able to wield the darksabre. But Din Djarin is an emotional mess at the moment. He needs to decide who he is before he can master the darksabre.

As for the prophecy, this can be tied to the ability of a jedi to see glimpses of the future through the Force, and again, the role of the darksabre is symbolic. Mandalore was not actually destroyed* because Sabine gave away the darksabre, it was destroyed because she left a lesser leader in charge whilst she went galivanting around the galaxy with her rebel friends.


*I seems likely that this was part of "Operation Cinder" and therefore occurred just after RotJ.


----------



## Maxperson

trappedslider said:


> So,it's not the Elder Wand.



Mando should still kill Snape with it just to be on the safe side.


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> It seems likely that this was part of "Operation Cinder" and therefore occurred just after RotJ.



I’m not so sure.

When Din was seeking Bo-Katan’s help to rescue Grogu, and she mentioned she wanted to reclaim Mandalore, Boba Fett commented that the Empire had “turned the planet to glass.” 

Considering that he spent most of RotJ in the sarlacc and didn’t escape until who knows how long after, Boba had either only just recently learned that or it happened sometime before RotJ.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> You reckon? Boba Fett knew Mandalore had been “turned to glass”. Unless he only found that out in between finding Fennec and then catching up with Din, it seems to me more likely that it happened sometime before RotJ.



He went into town a couple of times whilst living with the sand people, so he could have been up to speed on galactic events. Otherwise he would have been surprised to hear that the empire had fallen.


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> He went into town a couple of times whilst living with the sand people, so he could have been up to speed on galactic events. Otherwise he would have been surprised to hear that the empire had fallen.



Would the destruction of Mandalore be something you’d hear about on Tatooine, though?


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> Would the destruction of Mandalore be something you’d hear about on Tatooine, though?



I don't think you can argue that it couldn't have been heard. Operation Cinder has already been mentioned in Mandalorian session two. Chekhov's Gun gotta Chekhov.


----------



## pukunui

Maybe but I have a feeling it would have happened not long after Bo-Katan obtained the darksaber. I suspect she did not submit to Imperial rule and so they punished her for it by destroying Mandalorian civilization. (I’m not sure why they bothered to bomb the planet outside the domes given that it was already a wasteland but whatever …)


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> Would the destruction of Mandalore be something you’d hear about on Tatooine, though?



Operation Cinder as a whole probably would be, and there might be a list of the affected world's.

But Mandalore had revolted against Imperial rule a little before the events of RotJ, and it's entirely possible that it was bombed to bits in reprisal at that point.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> Maybe but I have a feeling it would have happened not long after Bo-Katan obtained the darksaber. I suspect she did not submit to Imperial rule and so they punished her for it by destroying Mandalorian civilization.



Bo-Katan rebelled around the time of ANH, and was defeated by Moff Gideon. Moff Gideon ruled Mandalore until the death of the Emperor, when he destroyed it in Operation Cinder.


> (I’m not sure why they bothered to bomb the planet outside the domes given that it was already a wasteland but whatever …)



To destroy the mines over the sacred pool, and absolutely not awaken the hibernating mythosaur.


----------



## Ryujin

*Darksaber*
This early Lightsaber looks "really cool", but is of inferior function. Its blade is made of compressed ennui and is capable of cutting through all but the most dense happiness. It is even more difficult and dangerous to use than a later, well thought out Lightsaber, and can result in deep depression for the user.

Scale: Character
Skill: Lightsaber
Difficulty: Very Difficult
Damage: 5D
Cost: Your Very Soul

Note: If an attacker misses the difficulty number by more than 10, he has "messed himself up real bad." Apply damage as normal and give the character a limp.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

A limp what?


----------



## Maxperson

Paul Farquhar said:


> A limp what?



Biscuit?


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> Bo-Katan rebelled around the time of ANH, and was defeated by Moff Gideon. Moff Gideon ruled Mandalore until the death of the Emperor, when he destroyed it in Operation Cinder.



I remain unconvinced. We don’t yet have a firm timeline of what happened when.



Paul Farquhar said:


> To destroy the mines over the sacred pool, and absolutely not awaken the hibernating mythosaur.



LOL


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

pukunui said:


> I remain unconvinced. We don’t yet have a firm timeline of what happened when.




The Wikis I looked at matched up pretty well, you just have to make sure the site you are looking at is only using canon and not mixing old Legends stuff into it. And what I saw was the Mandalore was being destroyed at about the same time the Battle of Yavin was happening, or about 9 years before the events in The Mandalorian, and about two years before Boba fell into the Sarlaac.


----------



## pukunui

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> The Wikis I looked at matched up pretty well, you just have to make sure the site you are looking at is only using canon and not mixing old Legends stuff into it. And what I saw was the Mandalore was being destroyed at about the same time the Battle of Yavin was happening, or about 9 years before the events in The Mandalorian, and about two years before Boba fell into the Sarlaac.



I only looked at Wookieepedia but it didn’t provide any dates.

Another reason for the Purge to have happened earlier is that Din is completely oblivious to it all. He didn’t even know who Bo-Katan was when they first met. Since he was made a foundling as a child, it makes sense for him to have still been an oblivious child when the Tribe were forced to flee Concordia.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

One thing I was remembering wrong was the timeline for Rebels events. From the official timeline:



> 1 BBY - Kanan Jarrus killed, sacrificing himself to save the rest of the Ghost crew. Ezra Bridger has an audience with the Emperor, before he and Grand Admiral Thrawn go missing in action. Bo-Katan Kryze takes Mandalorian throne, after Sabine Wren gives her the ceremonial Darksaber. (Star Wars Rebels)




And even on starwars.com, with their databank, real years are not used. It is just "years before this" and "years after that" for Mandalore and Bo-Katan and Sabine. It is only because of Rebels that we know Mandalore could not have been destroyed before 1 BBY. The show spends several episodes on the planet, and it is not destroyed yet, so that part of the timeline is easy.


----------



## Staffan

Paul Farquhar said:


> No, but they needed a full episode to throw Mando out of the order, establish a new atonement quest, foreshadow developments with Grogu and the darksabre, and get him a new ship.



Yes, there's certainly a whole episode's worth of plot here. The question is, does it need to be in the Book of Boba Fett, or could Boba just have given Mando a call and had him come help out and then Mando could have had his character development over on his own show?


----------



## Aeson

When Mando and Vizla started to duel my mom questioned the wisdom of it.

Mom: If there's only 3 of them, should they be fighting to the death? 
Me: This is the way.


----------



## MarkB

Aeson said:


> When Mando and Vizla started to duel my mom



Gotta admit, it took me a moment to parse that first sentence.


Aeson said:


> questioned the wisdom of it.
> 
> Mom: If there's only 3 of them, should they be fighting to the death?
> Me: This is the way.



I don't think it was necessarily to the death. Vizla could have claimed the saber the moment he put Din on the floor and disarmed him. He chose to take it further.


----------



## Aeson

Proper punctuation is not my friend. ☺


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Staffan said:


> Yes, there's certainly a whole episode's worth of plot here. The question is, does it need to be in the Book of Boba Fett, or could Boba just have given Mando a call and had him come help out and then Mando could have had his character development over on his own show?



It's where it fits in the timeline. We needed to see where Mando was at _before_ he appeared in tBoBF, but it would have made an anticlimactic final episode to Mandalorian session two.

Really, the idea that The Mandalorian and the Book of Boba Fett  (and Ahsoka etc) are separate shows is silly. I's all one big Star Wars TV show, and viewers are expected to watch all of it, not pick one.


----------



## Mezuka

Paul Farquhar said:


> Really, the idea that The Mandalorian and the Book of Boba Fett  (and Ahsoka etc) are separate shows is silly. I's all one big Star Wars TV show, and viewers are expected to watch all of it, not pick one.



Agreed. One big Star Wars quilt knitted one square at a time.


----------



## Staffan

Paul Farquhar said:


> It's where it fits in the timeline. We needed to see where Mando was at _before_ he appeared in tBoBF, but it would have made an anticlimactic final episode to Mandalorian session two.
> 
> Really, the idea that The Mandalorian and the Book of Boba Fett  (and Ahsoka etc) are separate shows is silly. I's all one big Star Wars TV show, and viewers are expected to watch all of it, not pick one.



But it would have made a pretty good first episode of Mandalorian season 3, and I have a hard time seeing how the stuff in this episode would be essential to Mando guest starring on Boba Fett. Unless the fighter turns out to be super relevant in a way they couldn't do without it.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Staffan said:


> But it would have made a pretty good first episode of Mandalorian season 3, and I have a hard time seeing how the stuff in this episode would be essential to Mando guest starring on Boba Fett. Unless the fighter turns out to be super relevant in a way they couldn't do without it.



He needed a ship for BoBF, and that particular fighter is going to be important later, with it's Grogu bubble. His relationship to the darksabre may well matter for BoBF. But really, _it doesn't matter_ - it's all one show.


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> He needed a ship for BoBF, and that particular fighter is going to be important later, with it's Grogu bubble. His relationship to the darksabre may well matter for BoBF. But really, _it doesn't matter_ - it's all one show.



It isn't, though. They're separate shows with different titles, both marketed at roughly the same audience yes, but I wouldn't expect, for instance, an entire episode of Hawkeye to be dedicated to character development for Wanda Maximoff or Sam Wilson.

The Book of Boba Fett is a short series dedicated to a single character's story, and dedicating an entire episode of that limited run-time to exploring an entirely different character remains weird and out-of-place.

If I want to do a full binge of The Mandalorian at some later date after it's got a couple more seasons under its belt, I'm probably not going to sidestep into watching BoBF after season 2 - but that's going to mean skipping past several plot and character developments.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> It isn't, though. They're separate shows with different titles, both marketed at roughly the same audience yes, but I wouldn't expect, for instance, an entire episode of Hawkeye to be dedicated to character development for Wanda Maximoff or Sam Wilson.
> 
> The Book of Boba Fett is a short series dedicated to a single character's story, and dedicating an entire episode of that limited run-time to exploring an entirely different character remains weird and out-of-place.
> 
> If I want to do a full binge of The Mandalorian at some later date after it's got a couple more seasons under its belt, I'm probably not going to sidestep into watching BoBF after season 2 - but that's going to mean skipping past several plot and character developments.



It's this sort of thing that resulted in me dropping out of watching the Arrowverse programmes. Make one that simply doesn't appeal to me at all, when I have to be fully invested in all the shows in order to keep track, and I'm more likely to just drop them all instead. Hopefully that doesn't happen here.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

We got Boba and Fennec's backstory first and next we get the story for why they will be part of Mandalorian season 3. Next episode, Mando maybe grabs Grogu, and maybe calls in Bo-Katan to help with the Pykes in the final episode. We may even get a cliffhanger that leads directly into season 3.

For viewers who only care about Din and Grogu, starting BoBF with episode 5 seems perfectly acceptable viewing.


----------



## Staffan

Ryujin said:


> It's this sort of thing that resulted in me dropping out of watching the Arrowverse programmes. Make one that simply doesn't appeal to me at all, when I have to be fully invested in all the shows in order to keep track, and I'm more likely to just drop them all instead. Hopefully that doesn't happen here.



Yeah, crossovers can be fun and all, but character development for the main characters belong in their own show. Side characters can get developed in both.

In retrospect, this is something they did pretty well on Buffy/Angel. When Buffy showed up on Angel, it was still an Angel episode, and Buffy was there for Angel to bounce his character development off of, not for Buffy to do her own development. You can still watch that season of Buffy without watching Angel and not miss anything more than "Buffy went away to LA to deal with some stuff with Angel and now she's back."


----------



## Paul Farquhar

MarkB said:


> It isn't, though.



It has the same showrunner. It has the same stable of writers and directors. It has the same tone, the same time period, is set in the same location, and has an overlapping cast. It's called TBoBF because _Mandalorian Series 2.5 (in which Mando only appears in a couple of episodes)_ is not a very snappy title, nor is _Star Wars: Some Stuff That Happens Between Episode VI and VII_. It's more comparable to the story names of Classic Doctor Who. _The Web Planet_ was eleven episodes long.

If you compare it to _The Clone Wars_, also made by the same team, we might spend three episodes following a group of random clone troopers, then have a story about a Jar Jar Binks Mace Windu team up, then move onto Boba Fett - Juvenile Delinquent. If you are only interested in the adventures of Anakin Skywalker you are going to be disappointed.


MarkB said:


> If I want to do a full binge of The Mandalorian at some later date after it's got a couple more seasons under its belt, I'm probably not going to sidestep into watching BoBF after season 2 - but that's going to mean skipping past several plot and character developments.



Then you are consuming the media in a way it wasn't designed to be consumed. If you are going to keep up you need to learn the new* media literacy.



* It's not than new, comics have been doing it that way since at least the 1960s.


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> It has the same showrunner. It has the same stable of writers and directors. It has the same tone, the same time period, is set in the same location, and has an overlapping cast. It's called TBoBF because _Mandalorian Series 2.5 (in which Mando only appears in a couple of episodes)_ is not a very snappy title, nor is _Star Wars: Some Stuff That Happens Between Episode VI and VII_. It's more comparable to the story names of Classic Doctor Who. _The Web Planet_ was eleven episodes long.



Same showrunner, different show. To use your analogy, it'd be equivalent to burying some essential plot developments for the Doctor and the TARDIS in an episode of Torchwood.


Paul Farquhar said:


> If you compare it to _The Clone Wars_, also made by the same team, we might spend three episodes following a group of random clone troopers, then have a story about a Jar Jar Binks Mace Windu team up, then move onto Boba Fett - Juvenile Delinquent. If you are only interested in the adventures of Anakin Skywalker you are going to be disappointed.



I'm never interested in the adventures of Anakin Skywalker. And I did lose interest in The Clone Wars a few seasons in. But that aside, it's still a single show, and still marketed as such. This is not.


Paul Farquhar said:


> Then you are consuming the media in a way it wasn't designed to be consumed. If you are going to keep up you need to learn the new* media literacy.



It's hardly universal. This is the only recent show I can think of that basically placed an entire episode from a different show into its runtime.


Paul Farquhar said:


> * It's not than new, comics have been doing it that way since at least the 1960s.



Which is one of the reasons I've never been much of a comic reader.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

MarkB said:


> To use your analogy, it'd be equivalent to burying some essential plot developments for the Doctor and the TARDIS in an episode of Torchwood.



It's not, because Torchwood is made for an adult audience and Doctor Who if for watching with children. The shows are tonally very different. _The Star Wars Show_ is tonally the same and made for the same audience.


MarkB said:


> It's hardly universal. This is the only recent show I can think of that basically placed an entire episode from a different show into its runtime.





MarkB said:


> Which is one of the reasons I've never been much of a comic reader.



The effect of streaming, expect to see a lot more of it in future, especially on Disney+, where the big franchises live. As with all societal changes, you either have to like it or lump it.


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> The effect of streaming, expect to see a lot more of it in future, especially on Disney+, where the big franchises live. As with all societal changes, you either have to like it or lump it.



Except that we haven't really seen more of it, and certainly not from Disney. We haven't seen it in the Marvel shows, which have each been pretty much self-contained.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

MarkB said:


> Except that we haven't really seen more of it, and certainly not from Disney. We haven't seen it in the Marvel shows, which have each been pretty much self-contained.



Yet.


----------



## MarkB

Paul Farquhar said:


> Yet.



So basically this is just you guessing.


----------



## Older Beholder

It’s really starting to feel like the Boba Fett chapter of the Mando story.
Lots of familiar faces in that episode.


----------



## pukunui

CAD BANE!!


----------



## reelo

So good....


----------



## trappedslider

Do you think he made it through the desert on a bantha with no name?


----------



## trappedslider

The face Grogu made when he saw all those frogs lol, and the cute little beskar mail shirt lol


----------



## Argyle King

Is it weird that I enjoy the Boba show more when it's not the Boba show?


----------



## MarkB

Argyle King said:


> Is it weird that I enjoy the Boba show more when it's not the Boba show?



Yeah, at this rate it's going to be "The Footnote of Boba Fett" plus season 2.5 of The Mandalorian. And I came in really looking forward to it.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> The face Grogu made when he saw all those frogs lol, and the cute little beskar mail shirt lol



I'd like to know if the shirt was real, or CGI.

(_EDIT_ - I made the piece in the picture)


----------



## MarkB

It's nice to see Luke and Ashoka becoming friends. For him, meeting someone else who knew his father before he became Vader, and for her, getting to meet a Skywalker who's still a good person.

And wow, they did a great job of portraying Luke in this episode. That 30 seconds or so of him standing still at the end of The Mandalorian season 2 seemed like an achievement, but this went a lot further.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> It's nice to see Luke and Ashoka becoming friends. For him, meeting someone else who knew his father before he became Vader, and for her, getting to meet a Skywalker who's still a good person.
> 
> And wow, they did a great job of portraying Luke in this episode. That 30 seconds or so of him standing still at the end of The Mandalorian season 2 seemed like an achievement, but this went a lot further.



With stuff like DeepFake, this sort of thing has come a long way.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Another awesome episode of Mandalorian season 2.5 and the 4 episodes of Book of Boba Fett before that were good also.


----------



## pukunui

Poor Grogu. He didn’t look happy about the choice Luke gave him at the end there. Which one will he choose? We probably won’t find out till Mando S3.


----------



## Bolares

Is justified xerif dude dead?


----------



## pukunui

Bolares said:


> Is justified xerif dude dead?



I’m wondering that too. Fennec survived a shot to the gut. Maybe Vanth will survive too, especially since he got medical attention straight away. His deputy is very much dead though.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Bolares said:


> Is justified xerif dude dead?




Need to go back and watch the scene again, but the way he fell made it look like the shot went a bit high and right and more into the shoulder than the chest. But no doubt the deputy is dead, since Bane shot him several times. Plus, the crowd of townsfolk around the sheriff made it seem like he was not dead yet.


----------



## pukunui

RIP Garsa Fwip. We hardly knew thee.


----------



## Bolares

Also, it's good to see Ashoka's make up holds up on well lit scenes. Her episode on Mando's show was pretty dark.


----------



## Ryujin

pukunui said:


> I’m wondering that too. Fennec survived a shot to the gut. Maybe Vanth will survive too, especially since he got medical attention straight away. His deputy is very much dead though.



Pretty sure that he'll live given the lengths they went to, to show that the deputy was DEAD-dead. He's also going to be the inspiration that gets the townspeople up in arms to go after The Syndicate.


----------



## Rabulias

Even Yoda's lightsaber looks a bit big for Grogu at this point in time.

But even without that I think we all know what Grogu's decision will be...


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Rabulias said:


> But even without that I think we all know what Grogu's decision will be...




To unknowingly avoid being at the future destruction of Luke's school?


----------



## Rabulias

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> To unknowingly avoid being at the future destruction of Luke's school?



No, I think it's primarily because the audience expects _The Mandalorian_ to have Din and Grogu. Though your reason is an equally valid one as well.


----------



## MoonSong

Rabulias said:


> Even Yoda's lightsaber looks a bit big for Grogu at this point in time.
> 
> But even without that I think we all know what Grogu's decision will be...



I think it is a test of character. How it is meant to go, I don't know.

If I was writing, it should be take a third option and pick both.


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> Poor Grogu. He didn’t look happy about the choice Luke gave him at the end there. Which one will he choose? We probably won’t find out till Mando S3.



Luke: "You take the chain shirt, the training ends, you wake up on Navarro and believe whatever you want to believe. You take the lightsaber, you stay in Far, Far Away, and I show you just how deep your powers go."

Grogu: "Okay, but what if I take the frog?"


Bolares said:


> Is justified xerif dude dead?



Nah, they're establishing just enough doubt about him and the townsfolk that they'll be able to make a here-comes-the-cavalry entrance during the big fight.


----------



## pukunui

I knew it was going to be a mithril beskar shirt like Frodo's!

I get why Luke doesn't want him to have both - because the armor will forever remind him of Din, which is an attachment, which is something Luke doesn't want him to have. But come on! He needs that armor to keep him safe from the Knights of Ren!

Was anyone else hoping Grogu's memory would be of the Yoda species homeworld, not of the attack on the Jedi Temple?


EDIT: Hey, did anyone spot Ahsoka's spirit owl anywhere? I'll have to watch this episode again to see if it's hiding in a tree somewhere like last time. I'm fairly certain they're building towards something -- either Ahsoka _is_ the Daughter (at least in spirit) or the Daughter survived and is watching over her. I wonder if that connection is how / why Ahsoka's purified lightsaber crystals turned white.


----------



## MarkB

I do wonder just how much good a Beskar chain shirt will do. Is it enough coverage to stop blaster bolts? It's too flexible to do much good against heavy bludgeoning or piercing weapons.

In fact, the most credible  protection it would offer is against lightsabers.


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

I want Grogu to have both Yoda's Lightsaber and the Beskar Shirt! I'm sure he's going to end up picking the Beskar Shirt, probably in the next episode so he can be returned to Mando in time for his own show to start up again, but I can just imagine him wearing Mandolorian Armor, jumping around a battlefield, and fighting off enemies with Yoda's small lightsaber.


----------



## MarkB

So, Yoda didn't actually give Luke his lightsaber at any point on-screen. Is it something that happened off-screen, or are we thinking Luke ransacked his hovel after he evaporated?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

MarkB said:


> So, Yoda didn't actually give Luke his lightsaber at any point on-screen. Is it something that happened off-screen, or are we thinking Luke ransacked his hovel after he evaporated?



IIRC, we never saw that Yoda had a lightsaber until the Prequel Trilogy. It wasn't shown on Dagobah in Episode V or VI. So, Luke probably went through Yoda's stuff after he died, either before facing Vader or off-screen sometime after Vader's funeral.


----------



## Bolares

Wouldn't you go look for Yoda's lightsaber?


----------



## trappedslider

Rabulias said:


> Even Yoda's lightsaber looks a bit big for Grogu at this point in time.



I had the mental image of him holding the lightsaber then falling over with it on top of him.


----------



## Eric V

So I guess a cool antihero type series with Boba Fett tracking down bounties, getting involved with politics, competing against other hunters, etc. was too much to hope for.  

One episode left and he was barely in the last two...and he hasn't done anything particularly cool yet.  Oh well.

How could the marshal not know who Boba Fett was?  He was on retainer for Jabba during the marshal's lifetime.  There's a bunch of weird stuff like this.

At least Mando's still cool.


----------



## Ryujin

reelo said:


> So good....



CosPlay ready. Just have to modify my hat band.


----------



## trappedslider

Eric V said:


> How could the marshal not know who Boba Fett was?  He was on retainer for Jabba during the marshal's lifetime.  There's a bunch of weird stuff like this.



Do you know anyone in the governmental body two cities away from you?


----------



## Morrus

Wow, Luke’s a bit of a dick, isn’t he?


----------



## Levistus's_Leviathan

Morrus said:


> Wow, Luke’s a bit of a dick, isn’t he?



I think that's inherent in being a Jedi. (Also shows a bit how he got to his attitude in the Sequel Trilogy, by clinging too much to the traditions of the Jedi.)


----------



## Eric V

trappedslider said:


> Do you know anyone in the governmental body two cities away from you?



If he's the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, I would have heard of him, yeah.


----------



## Morrus

Eric V said:


> If he's the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, I would have heard of him, yeah.



I haven’t seen anybody fear him yet.


----------



## Ryujin

Theory: All of this sets up a new movie trilogy. (Movie 1) Din goes to Mandalore, to try and get back his status. (Movie 2) Someone defeats/kills Din and asserts control over Mandalorians. (Movie 3) Now teenager equivalent Foundling/Jedi Grogu hunts down the usurper, defeats him, and brings back The Way.


----------



## Eric V

Morrus said:


> I haven’t seen anybody fear him yet.



Nobody.  Not one person.

Which is a huge step away from previous canon, is my point.  I thought being well-versed in SW canon would make the show more enjoyable, but in this case definitely not.


----------



## Ryujin

Morrus said:


> I haven’t seen anybody fear him yet.



He's like Snake Pliskin; "I've heard about you. Heard you were dead."


----------



## trappedslider

Does fett show up in anything else considered current canon and not legends material?


----------



## MarkB

Morrus said:


> Wow, Luke’s a bit of a dick, isn’t he?



I have a feeling the choice he presents Grogu may be one of those "true, from a certain point of view" things. He told Grogu that he could only _choose_ one of the gifts - not that he could only _have_ one of them. Maybe, whichever one he chooses, Luke will give him the other one anyway.


----------



## pukunui

trappedslider said:


> Does fett show up in anything else considered current canon and not legends material?



He shows up in various animated series. Young Boba was in _The Clone Wars _quite a bit. He was also in one of those _Visions _anime episodes (chasing after that Jedi padawan who joins a band).



MarkB said:


> I have a feeling the choice he presents Grogu may be one of those "true, from a certain point of view" things. He told Grogu that he could only _choose_ one of the gifts - not that he could only _have_ one of them. Maybe, whichever one he chooses, Luke will give him the other one anyway.



I hope so! But then I suspect Grogu will choose to go back to Din for two reasons: 1) Din's new spaceship has that Grogu-shaped bubble in it and 2) it would mean Grogu isn't at the temple when the Knights of Ren attack and thus isn't one of the casualties. (He'd be close to 100 years old by the time of the sequel trilogy, if he's still alive then. He could join Rey and together they could rebuild the Jedi Order again.)


----------



## Older Beholder

Something about the robot ants really gave me the creeps.


----------



## pukunui

pukunui said:


> EDIT: Hey, did anyone spot Ahsoka's spirit owl anywhere? I'll have to watch this episode again to see if it's hiding in a tree somewhere like last time. I'm fairly certain they're building towards something -- either Ahsoka _is_ the Daughter (at least in spirit) or the Daughter survived and is watching over her. I wonder if that connection is how / why Ahsoka's purified lightsaber crystals turned white.



Just re-watched the scenes Ahsoka is in but I didn't spot Morai anywhere. I hope the Ahsoka spin-off series will delve into Morai's meaning a little more.


----------



## CapnZapp

Man, that was great.

Last episode showed that The Mandalorian was a better show than Book of Boba Fett.

And now we got the first episode of "Cobb Vanth and Baby Yoda" - and it is equally much better than The Mandalorian!! 

As bonus content, I was reminded how much I would enjoy a MA rated show about Ahsoka Tano...!


----------



## DeviousQuail

If this show was called The Book of Tatooine and mixed the last two episodes into the first four a little more I think I'd like it more. It wouldn't be all that different but my expectations going into it would've been more appropriately met. I do hope Boba gets the chance to kick some butt in the finale. I don't mind going a respect over fear route but it's okay to have a bit of both, balance and what not.


----------



## Zardnaar

trappedslider said:


> Does fett show up in anything else considered current canon and not legends material?




 Cartoons. 

 I enjoyed Mandalorian S2.5E2. IMDB 9.6

  Great episode. Best of season followed by Mando S2.5E1, and Dances With Banthas.


----------



## Zardnaar

MarkB said:


> I have a feeling the choice he presents Grogu may be one of those "true, from a certain point of view" things. He told Grogu that he could only _choose_ one of the gifts - not that he could only _have_ one of them. Maybe, whichever one he chooses, Luke will give him the other one anyway.




 Luke chose his friends in ESB.


----------



## Rabulias

Zardnaar said:


> Luke chose his friends in ESB.



And it cost him a hand and a lightsaber. Though in return he did find his father...


----------



## Zardnaar

Rabulias said:


> And it cost him a hand and a lightsaber. Though in return he did find his father...




 Just thought Luke can't be to big on the old Jedi traditions.


----------



## pukunui

MarkB said:


> I have a feeling the choice he presents Grogu may be one of those "true, from a certain point of view" things. He told Grogu that he could only _choose_ one of the gifts - not that he could only _have_ one of them. Maybe, whichever one he chooses, Luke will give him the other one anyway.



Just re-watched with my girls. Luke clearly states that if Grogu chooses the armor, he will return to his life with Din, whereas if he chooses the lightsaber, he'll stay and become Luke's first student and a great Jedi. Yes, it's possible if he chooses the lightsaber, Luke might let him wear the armor anyway ... but I think that's unlikely, as it represents the attachment Grogu has to Din and will remind him of Din every day, which is not something Luke seems to want.

And boy, Grogu looks mad right at the end there. Like he's thinking, "Dammit, Luke, why are you making me choose?! I want them both!"

I fully expect he'll choose the armor. Why else would Din get a new starship with a perfect little Grogu-sized bubble instead of a droid port?

That said, I don't expect we'll find out which choice Grogu makes until S3 of the Mandalorian. I mean, there's only one episode of Boba Fett left now, and I think it will focus on the standoff with the Pykes (and whoever is backing them -- the money seems to be on Qi'ra and Crimson Dawn, especially since some keen-eared fans picked out the Crimson Dawn theme music from _Solo _in one of the earlier Boba Fett episodes - or is it just mixed in with Boba's theme? I can't remember exactly.)


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Ryujin said:


> I'd like to know if the shirt was real, or CGI.



Looked real, and Grogu is a combo of CGI and puppet.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> Just re-watched with my girls. Luke clearly states that if Grogu chooses the armor, he will return to his life with Din, whereas if he chooses the lightsaber, he'll stay and become Luke's first student and a great Jedi. Yes, it's possible if he chooses the lightsaber, Luke might let him wear the armor anyway ... but I think that's unlikely, as it represents the attachment Grogu has to Din and will remind him of Din every day, which is not something Luke seems to want.
> 
> And boy, Grogu looks mad right at the end there. Like he's thinking, "Dammit, Luke, why are you making me choose?! I want them both!"
> 
> I fully expect he'll choose the armor. Why else would Din get a new starship with a perfect little Grogu-sized bubble instead of a droid port?
> 
> That said, I don't expect we'll find out which choice Grogu makes until S3 of the Mandalorian. I mean, there's only one episode of Boba Fett left now, and I think it will focus on the standoff with the Pykes (and whoever is backing them -- the money seems to be on Qi'ra and Crimson Dawn, especially since some keen-eared fans picked out the Crimson Dawn theme music from _Solo _in one of the earlier Boba Fett episodes - or is it just mixed in with Boba's theme? I can't remember exactly.)



Grogu will choose the armor, and as a consequence Luke's academy will fall.

However, this will be the start of a path to creating a new organisation that fuses Jedi and Mandalorian teachings, both of which are out of balance as they are at the moment.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> I get why Luke doesn't want him to have both - because the armor will forever remind him of Din, which is an attachment, which is something Luke doesn't want him to have. But come on! He needs that armor to keep him safe from the Knights of Ren!



Luke is fixated on reviving the old jedi traditions, rather than finding a new way forward.

You could view the recreation of an ancient looking building as a metaphor for this.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Eric V said:


> If he's the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, I would have heard of him, yeah.



He isn't, that was Legends Boba Fett.

In this galaxy Cad Bane is far more badass.

I think a better name for this series would be _The Clone Wars 25 Years On_. You need familiarity with events in TCW to fully understand this series.

_Edit: also The Bad Batch - Fennic Shand has history with Cad Bane._


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> However, this will be the start of a path to creating a new organisation that fuses Jedi and Mandalorian teachings, both of which are out of balance as they are at the moment.



That's an interesting idea!


----------



## Morrus

pukunui said:


> That said, I don't expect we'll find out which choice Grogu makes until S3 of the Mandalorian. I mean, there's only one episode of Boba Fett left now, and I think it will focus on the standoff with the Pykes (and whoever is backing them -- the money seems to be on Qi'ra and Crimson Dawn, especially since some keen-eared fans picked out the Crimson Dawn theme music from _Solo _in one of the earlier Boba Fett episodes - or is it just mixed in with Boba's theme? I can't remember exactly.)



Yeah, awesome though the Mando stuff is, it's carefully not advancing the plot outside of its show. It begins and ends with Mando and Grogu in the same position. Perhaps in Mando s3 they'll need a throwaway line referring to the armour Mando left for him (which people will just assume happened offscreen), and him starting with the new ship (but that sort of thing can also generally happen offscreen -- "hey, I got  a new ship since you last saw me!") but the armor forging backstory and the ship building scenes and the like aren't necessary. So if you are only watching Mando, missing these eps won't be confusing.


----------



## Staffan

Morrus said:


> So if you are only watching Mando, missing these eps won't be confusing.



Being cast out by the Armorer on account of showing his face seems like it might be pretty important though.


----------



## Morrus

Staffan said:


> Being cast out by the Armorer on account of showing his face seems like it might be pretty important though.



He'd left anyway. What was more weird was him showing up there!


----------



## MarkB

Morrus said:


> He'd left anyway. What was more weird was him showing up there!



He'd left the planet, and so did they. He never left the organisation. Not until now, when they kicked him out.


----------



## Wolfram stout

Hmmm,  so assuming Grogu goes with Mando,  that means:
Mando has the Darksaber he needs help learning to wield it, he also has a highly Force sensitive slightly trained partner/sidekick who also has "memories" of how to use the force.

I think I can see where this may go.  And for those like me that don't really watch the animated shows, Wookipedia and/or a teenage kid who does is a life saver.


----------



## Aeson

Could Covid have played a part in them switching to Mando? They had to quarantine the regular cast, so they threw together another story, and fit it in? 

Not enough material, so they pad the episode count with other material?

Just a couple of thoughts I had on why they did it this way.


----------



## Aeson

Cad Bane looked great. I was so excited to see him show up. A reoccurring character, he will be.


----------



## Kobold Stew

MarkB said:


> So, Yoda didn't actually give Luke his lightsaber at any point on-screen. Is it something that happened off-screen, or are we thinking Luke ransacked his hovel after he evaporated?



Luke is a player character in this story, after all.


----------



## Jmarso

If I were to try to shoehorn Yoda's lightsaber's appearance into canon, I'd do it like this:

After the New Republic took Coruscant, Luke found it (along with a bunch of other Jedi artifacts) in Palpatine's sealed, private collection. Because I'm fairly certain we saw Yoda lose that lightsaber in the Senate Chamber as Palpatine was kicking his ass.


----------



## billd91

Jmarso said:


> If I were to try to shoehorn Yoda's lightsaber's appearance into canon, I'd do it like this:
> 
> After the New Republic took Coruscant, Luke found it (along with a bunch of other Jedi artifacts) in Palpatine's sealed, private collection. Because I'm fairly certain we saw Yoda lose that lightsaber in the Senate Chamber as Palpatine was kicking his ass.



Or Yoda made another one. Seems that Jedi go through lightsabers from time to time. Anakin certainly did between Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones.


----------



## Jacob Lewis

Morrus said:


> Wow, Luke’s a bit of a dick, isn’t he?



Now I'm imagining that scene as a metaphor for a DM with a new player in his game: 

DM Luke: "Ok, Grogu. You can play a wizard or a fighter, but not both. There's no multi-classing in my campaign."

Grogu: "Is this Basic D&D, or are you just being a dick?"


----------



## embee

Remember in Star Wars when Threepio says, "I suggest a different strategy: Let the Wookiee win."

I suggest a different stategy for the show: Let Dave Filoni do every episode. 

Thoughts:


I want a Cobb Vanth show.
Cad Bane is terrifying.
The Vanth/Bane showdown is up there with "The Duel" from Star Wars: Visions as far as genre-blending goes. It showcases Star Wars' roots. 
"I'm an old friend of the family" is a perfect Ahsoka line.
Fox did Firefly dirty. Space Westerns are AMAZING!
Ludwig Goranson + Ennio Morricone = Perfection.
Baby Yoda is inferior to Babier Yoda.
Using a remote to teach an Order 66 survivor is like teaching kitchen safety to a toddler by burning his hand on the stove.
The near complete lack of Boba Fett in this (IMHO) great episode shows that Boba Fett really shouldn't have had a show.


----------



## embee

Jacob Lewis said:


> Now I'm imagining that scene as a metaphor for a DM with a new player in his game:
> 
> DM Luke: "Ok, Grogu. You can play a wizard or a fighter, but not both. There's no multi-classing in my campaign."
> 
> Grogu: "Is this Basic D&D, or are you just being a dick?"



DM Luke: "Why not both?"


----------



## embee

Staffan said:


> Being cast out by the Armorer on account of showing his face seems like it might be pretty important though.



Which parallels Ahsoka being cast out of the Order.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Staffan said:


> Being cast out by the Armorer on account of showing his face seems like it might be pretty important though.



Sure, it sets up the quest to travel to the ruins of Mandalore, delve through the devastated mines, bathe in the sacred pool, master the darksabre, and tame the fearsome mythosaur, before uniting the surviving Mandalorian people.

It's not _just _a space western, it's also an Arthurian myth.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

embee said:


> The near complete lack of Boba Fett in this (IMHO) great episode shows that Boba Fett really shouldn't have had a show.




No Mando or Grogu means maybe having to go up to two years without them on-screen, since season three will probably be an early Winter/Christmas release. And like I commented earlier, I think this will come to be looked at as BoBF being 4 episodes long and then 3 episodes of reminding people that Din and Grogu still exist. I am seeing more people calling episodes 5-7 as season 2.5 of The Mandalorian. And they had to keep all these appearances secret, so yes, at first it feels like Boba got cheated out of a full show, but time will change that perception.


----------



## MarkB

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> No Mando or Grogu means maybe having to go up to two years without them on-screen, since season three will probably be an early Winter/Christmas release. And like I commented earlier, I think this will come to be looked at as BoBF being 4 episodes long and then 3 episodes of reminding people that Din and Grogu still exist. I am seeing more people calling episodes 5-7 as season 2.5 of The Mandalorian. And they had to keep all these appearances secret, so yes, at first it feels like Boba got cheated out of a full show, but time will change that perception.



I just feel like Boba was cheated out of a _good_ show. These last two episodes have hardly been action-packed, and yet they feel far more compelling than the previous four episodes featuring Boba - and I don't think that's all down to the Mandalorian characters being more established.

Somehow, while they weren't actively bad or dull, those first four episodes failed to gel into a compelling narrative that has me rooting for Boba or even really knowing what he's trying to achieve. And, as these last two episodes demonstrate, they have the writing and directing talent to pull that off, so it's doubly weird that they've failed to do so in Boba's episodes.


----------



## Aeson

Kobold Stew said:


> Luke is a player character in this story, after all.



More like a DMPC.


----------



## embee

MarkB said:


> I just feel like Boba was cheated out of a _good_ show. These last two episodes have hardly been action-packed, and yet they feel far more compelling than the previous four episodes featuring Boba - and I don't think that's all down to the Mandalorian characters being more established.
> 
> Somehow, while they weren't actively bad or dull, those first four episodes failed to gel into a compelling narrative that has me rooting for Boba or even really knowing what he's trying to achieve. And, as these last two episodes demonstrate, they have the writing and directing talent to pull that off, so it's doubly weird that they've failed to do so in Boba's episodes.



I've said it before.... Have E1 be Boba coming out of the Sarlacc and his time with the Tuskens. Close the episode with him in full Boba of Arabia mode riding a Bantha. As a unified episode, that story works. It ups the stakes, building to the train, and introduces the Pykes as THE Big Bad. 

Either that, or perhaps take a different tack completely. Yes, the stinger shows Boba killing Bib Fortuna. The first season could have had Bib as the main villain and then have been Boba taking down Bib. So then, at the end of S1, Boba has taken over Bib's criminal empire. 

I don't think that this season was adequately planned out. Or perhaps it's trying to have Boba run before he walks.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> I just feel like Boba was cheated out of a _good_ show. These last two episodes have hardly been action-packed, and yet they feel far more compelling than the previous four episodes featuring Boba - and I don't think that's all down to the Mandalorian characters being more established.
> 
> Somehow, while they weren't actively bad or dull, those first four episodes failed to gel into a compelling narrative that has me rooting for Boba or even really knowing what he's trying to achieve. And, as these last two episodes demonstrate, they have the writing and directing talent to pull that off, so it's doubly weird that they've failed to do so in Boba's episodes.



As someone else mentioned previously, I think that there might have been more compelling character development for Fett if they had done the series in a more linear fashion. Show him with the Tuskens, learning the value of a family, first. Then show him building his own syndicate. Then it flows more naturally and feels earned.


----------



## Rabulias

Zardnaar said:


> Just thought Luke can't be to big on the old Jedi traditions.



My attempt at humor covered up the fact that I think your point is well made, really. Even moreso when you consider that the attachment between Luke and Anakin (against traditional Jedi ideas) is what saved Luke, ended the Empire, and redeemed Anakin. This is what made the lonely and detached Luke of the sequel trilogy so out of character for me. Though I suppose his portrayal in this episode is consistent with current canon, then. Sigh.


----------



## Rabulias

As for those who wanted a full 7 episodes of Boba Fett, sorry you are disappointed; I am too, to some degree.

I do consider this to be a side chapter to _The Mandalorian._ It is called _The Book of Boba Fett_ as it deals with Fett _slightly _more than Din, but I feel it is a story of Boba Fett and _his role in relation to _the ultimately larger legend/myth/story of Din Djarin. As I said earlier in the thread, calling the show a book gives it a legendary/religious feel, as recounted at some future time. Remember, all of this took place "a long time ago."


----------



## Maxperson

Argyle King said:


> Is it weird that I enjoy the Boba show more when it's not the Boba show?



Hey!  He was in it for 30 seconds this episode!


----------



## Maxperson

pukunui said:


> I’m wondering that too. Fennec survived a shot to the gut. Maybe Vanth will survive too, especially since he got medical attention straight away. His deputy is very much dead though.



Well, that much stupid didn't deserve to live.  I felt like shouting, "Don't go outside Carl!"(Walking Dead reference).


----------



## Maxperson

pukunui said:


> Was anyone else hoping Grogu's memory would be of the Yoda species homeworld, not of the attack on the Jedi Temple?



Absolutely! I was disappointed not to see other Yodas running around.


----------



## Maxperson

Bolares said:


> Wouldn't you go look for Yoda's lightsaber?



He probably knew right where it was.  We didn't see most of Luke's training on Dagobah.  Yoda probably used his saber when he taught Luke how to fight.  He wouldn't have had a need to hide it in secret compartments or anything.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Eric V said:


> If he's the most feared bounty hunter in the galaxy, I would have heard of him, yeah.



Would you though? Who's the most feared bounty hunter on Earth?


----------



## Maxperson

MarkB said:


> I just feel like Boba was cheated out of a _good_ show. These last two episodes have hardly been action-packed, and yet they feel far more compelling than the previous four episodes featuring Boba - and I don't think that's all down to the Mandalorian characters being more established.
> 
> Somehow, while they weren't actively bad or dull, those first four episodes failed to gel into a compelling narrative that has me rooting for Boba or even really knowing what he's trying to achieve. And, as these last two episodes demonstrate, they have the writing and directing talent to pull that off, so it's doubly weird that they've failed to do so in Boba's episodes.



I feel like instead of Boba having the position of Daimyo and having to defend it, the show should have shown him starting to fight the forces of Bib Fortuna and acquiring allies for that along the way. The season should have ended with his success and establishing his position.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> As someone else mentioned previously, I think that there might have been more compelling character development for Fett if they had done the series in a more linear fashion. Show him with the Tuskens, learning the value of a family, first. Then show him building his own syndicate. Then it flows more naturally and feels earned.



Yeah, as it stands I don't even really know why/if he even wants to be a crime boss. On the one hand it seems like fleeing back to the familiar in the form of Jabba's palace and empire, and on the other it seems like maybe he wants to reform the place, take the criminal gangs down from the top. The same team that delivered us really well-defined motivations and internal struggles for Din Djarin before he ever took his helmet off just hasn't done the same for Boba Fett.


----------



## Maxperson

Rabulias said:


> This is what made the lonely and detached Luke



Very Lonely Luke @VeryLonelyLuke
Feb 22, 2018

For the record, taking over the galaxy is NOT a good father-son bonding activity.

Very Lonely Luke @VeryLonelyLuke
Feb 22, 2018

Sorry I turned on my lightsaber prematurely. I swear that's never happened before.

Very Lonely Luke @VeryLonelyLuke
Jan 29, 2018

Why do I think porgs are cuter than ewoks? Well, for starters, porgs don't eat people.


----------



## Aeson

Several times in the show. He said his name expecting a reaction. Most of the time it was a resounding, Meh. I think the most feared bounty hunter was all in his head, we were just living in it. Until Disney upped the rent and evicted us.


----------



## Stalker0

CapnZapp said:


> This was neat - but is anyone else bothered by how clearly this showed how much better a show The Mandalorian is/was...?



Just caught up myself, and yeah absolutely. Episode 5, it was amazing to me how "slow" the pacing of the episode was, and yet I was completely enthralled. Mando is just a few scenes looked more badass than Boba has in the entire previous 4 episodes. I also love the head armorer lady, so calm and yet every word is a soft commandment. The mechanic lady is also once again just amazing.

I also really appreciated that the helmet removal gets called out, Mando messed up the code and had to pay the price, which is perfectly in theme. I wonder if that will be his new mission wants this little war gets settled, and he has to return to mandalore to become worthy again. Lastly, its great that everyone Mando sees is like "where's the kid?"..... its a small detail, but it really makes all of these characters feel connected because its exactly the thing actual people would say.


----------



## Eric V

Aeson said:


> Could Covid have played a part in them switching to Mando? They had to quarantine the regular cast, so they threw together another story, and fit it in?



This was my wife's theory, as well.


----------



## Eric V

Aeson said:


> Several times in the show. He said his name expecting a reaction. Most of the time it was a resounding, Meh. I think the most feared bounty hunter was all in his head, we were just living in it. Until Disney upped the rent and evicted us.



I mean, it wasn't always like that; read the wookipedia entry.  But I guess none of that matters now if Disney just decided he should be a loser.


----------



## Stalker0

I do love that Ahsoka and Luke have gotten to meet, man imagine the stories they will share! I'd be curious in Luke actually offered the role of master at any point and she turned him down. Its an interesting mix, Luke is probably stronger with the force overall but Ahsoka has had years of Jedi training, not to mention years of war as a jedi and general. I would be curious what their dynamic ultimately turns out to be. I also give the show props for continuing to put Luke on the screen, while its clearly CGI and a bit wooden honestly it looks pretty solid, solid enough that I can suspend disbelief.

But what's more interesting is perhaps Ahsoka and R2D2. It has never technically been addressed that R2D2 worked for anakin and would know a lot about him; we have never had the chance to see Luke talk to R2D2 about that. Now in theory R2 would have told him at some point, but if not, I definately think he would know now that Ahsoka has come and seen her old droid friend.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Eric V said:


> I mean, it wasn't always like that; read the wookipedia entry.  But I guess none of that matters now if Disney just decided he should be a loser.




Isn't most of what is on wookiepedia from all the now non-Canon Legends stuff? I have looked at that site before and there is no way everything there is canon-only.


----------



## Eric V

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Isn't most of what is on wookiepedia from all the now non-Canon Legends stuff? I have looked at that site before and there is no way everything there is canon-only.



Who knows?  It includes all the clone wars stuff alongside a lot of other stuff.

I just didn't know they were going to retcon him to go from the massive rep he had in the entry (and hinted at in the films) to the non-factor he is now.


----------



## pukunui

Stalker0 said:


> But what's more interesting is perhaps Ahsoka and R2D2. It has never technically been addressed that R2D2 worked for anakin and would know a lot about him; we have never had the chance to see Luke talk to R2D2 about that. Now in theory R2 would have told him at some point, but if not, I definately think he would know now that Ahsoka has come and seen her old droid friend.



Yeah. Threepio got his mind wiped at least once after Anakin became Vader, but as far as I know, R2 never has. Oh, the secrets he could tell!



Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Isn't most of what is on wookiepedia from all the now non-Canon Legends stuff? I have looked at that site before and there is no way everything there is canon-only.



They now have different tabs for canon vs legends material, and there's a header that tells you which one you're looking at.


----------



## Older Beholder

The giant skull on the Jawa's sandcrawler was another nice touch.


----------



## Older Beholder

I'm really liking Mando in the Naboo Starfighter with the yellow paint stripped back so it's all silver.
One of the best things about the prequel series was the ship design. (actually the Visual design has always been my favourite part of Star Wars)


----------



## Aeson

The Lizard Wizard said:


> The giant skull on the Jawa's sandcrawler was another nice touch.



I wanted to see a scene with the sandcrawler tipped forward because the skull was too heavy.


----------



## Rabulias

Maxperson said:


> Well, that much stupid didn't deserve to live.  I felt like shouting, "Don't go outside Carl!"(Walking Dead reference).



I loved the look Vanth gave the deputy when the deputy came back out!  


Benjamin Olson said:


> Would you though? Who's the most feared bounty hunter on Earth?



I don't know who is the _most feared_, because in my limited experience I know of only one bounty hunter:



Maybe this is why Fett gets such a "whatever" response to his name? 


Stalker0 said:


> I also really appreciated that the helmet removal gets called out, Mando messed up the code and had to pay the price, which is perfectly in theme.



And in the mythic tradition, he removed his helmet _three times_.


----------



## Maxperson

Rabulias said:


> I loved the look Vanth gave the deputy when the deputy came back out!



Yeah.  Vanth was distracted by him when Cad Bane drew and shot. I wonder if he would have lost or lost as badly if he had not been distracted like that.


----------



## Rabulias

Aeson said:


> Several times in the show. He said his name expecting a reaction. Most of the time it was a resounding, Meh.



Pardon me mixing Disney properties, but it does seem very much like this:








Aeson said:


> I think the most feared bounty hunter was all in his head, we were just living in it. Until Disney upped the rent and evicted us.



Maybe Boba Fett is the Walter Mitty of the Star Wars universe? It could explain his goofy "end" in _Return of the Jedi_.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Maxperson said:


> Yeah.  Vanth was distracted by him when Cad Bane drew and shot. I wonder if he would have lost or lost as badly if he had not been distracted like that.



In The Bad Batch, there is a similar situation in which Cad Bane outdraws Hunter. Hunter was an enhanced clone, not some geezer from Tatooine. Vanth never stood a chance.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> Yeah. Threepio got his mind wiped at least once after Anakin became Vader, but as far as I know, R2 never has. Oh, the secrets he could tell!



Anakin's failure to mindwipe R2 is a plot point in one TCW story.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Okay, here is a very left-field idea. Qi'ra is around the same age as Omega from The Bad Batch.

Which would set up the ending:

_"Boba, I am your sister."_

_"Nooooooo...."_


----------



## Nilbog

Cad bane is awesome, but I can't half wait to see him get his arse handed to him on a plate! 
Sign of a good villain


----------



## CapnZapp

MarkB said:


> Somehow, while they weren't actively bad or dull, those first four episodes



Weren't they?

The plotting is utterly basic. It's as if they don't even bother trying to convince us Fett is a believable crime lord. Everybody in Fett's circle introduced by this show is utterly cardboard cutout and one-dimensional.

How bad or dull must a Star Wars show be before you consider it actively so...?  

I mean, I'm surprised since I was convinced these Fett-centric episodes had established themselves as the new definition of an actively dull SW show by now...?


----------



## CapnZapp

Stalker0 said:


> Its an interesting mix, Luke is probably stronger with the force overall but Ahsoka has had years of Jedi training, not to mention years of war as a jedi and general.



I would be surprised if Disney didn't treat Luke Skywalker as an omnipotent demigod by now. Anything else than him wiping the floor with these lesser/newer characters feels outright preposterous to be honest...


----------



## CapnZapp

Eric V said:


> Who knows?



Eh... if you won't even try to distinguish between canon and non-canon lore your suggestions will likely not be received as very insightful. Maybe try harder next time?


----------



## CapnZapp

Anyone else slightly surprised they just unceremoniously blew up Garsa Fwip like that?

Or maybe I'm overestimating"Jennifer Beals" as a "name"?

(If Fwip did die in that explosion there is nothing there they could not have used an unknown actress for. I kept waiting for them to reveal why they cast a known actress in a do-nothing role...)

And I guess that saxophone (?) player in Rebo's band is canonically dead now, since they made an effort to have the camera focus on them...


----------



## Aeson

Wasn't Max Rebo and his band on Jabba's craft when it went kabluey? 

I'm disappointed in aspects of the show. It should be about Boba hunting bounties. There should have been run ins with the Empire. The scene with the rancor was cringey, and I hate using that word, so you know I mean it. 

We still got the things I love about Star Wars. The universe became deeper as we learned more of the Tuskans. Droids, critters, aliens, lightsabers. The bit with the Xwing pilots was fun. 

So far, I'm glad they made it. It enriches the whole, but it's not the best. Boba deserves better, but I'll take it over nothing.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Aeson said:


> It should be about Boba hunting bounties. There should have been run ins with the Empire.



How would that be different to The Mandalorian?


----------



## Paul Farquhar

CapnZapp said:


> Anyone else slightly surprised they just unceremoniously blew up Garsa Fwip like that?
> 
> Or maybe I'm overestimating"Jennifer Beals" as a "name"?



I suspect she will live long enough to gasp out a speech at the beginning of the next episode. To which Boba will reply " By Grabthar's hammer, you shall be avenged!"


----------



## Eric V

CapnZapp said:


> Eh... if you won't even try to distinguish between canon and non-canon lore your suggestions will likely not be received as very insightful. Maybe try harder next time?



Eh...I think I'll pass on any suggestions you have to give on anything.

Everything I was making mention of was found under the tab "Canon" yet people are acting like it isn't, especially the matter of his galactic reputation, hence "Who knows?"


----------



## Eric V

Paul Farquhar said:


> How would that be different to The Mandalorian?



The Mandalorian very quickly changed its focus to be about protecting a child and not bounty hunting though.


----------



## Aeson

Paul Farquhar said:


> How would that be different to The Mandalorian?



Are all the Law & Order shows different? They're all about harassing people until they find the bad guy. You can have more than one show with a similar premise.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Aeson said:


> Are all the Law & Order shows different? They're all about harassing people until they find the bad guy. You can have more than one show with a similar premise.



I don't know, they aren't worth watching.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Eric V said:


> The Mandalorian very quickly changed its focus to be about protecting a child and not bounty hunting though.



That's because "hunting bounties" on it's own isn't enough to keep people watching a streaming show.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

With The Bad Batch matching Shand against Bane, I wonder how that history will play out in episode 7? Sure, it's been 25-30 years, but no way they have forgotten each other.


----------



## embee

My daily disappointment, courtesy of BD-1's cameo:

1) Jedi: Fallen Order is a truly enjoyable game with a pretty good story and memorable characters, including Cal Kestis.

2) Cal Kestis is about 17 or 18 years old in JFO, which takes place in 14BBY. 

3) BoBF takes place in 9ABY. 

4) If BD-1 is still around, there's a decent enough chance that Cal Kestis survived the Dark Times and could still be around. That would make him around 40 years old. 

5) To cast a live-action Cal Kestis, you'd ideally be looking for a ginger actor around 40 years old.

6) Domnhall Gleeson would be a fine choice except...


----------



## embee

Stalker0 said:


> Luke is probably stronger with the force overall but Ahsoka has had years of Jedi training, not to mention years of war as a jedi and general. I would be curious what their dynamic ultimately turns out to be.



Disappointment and constant warning against what Luke is trying to do.

Ahsoka left the Order, betrayed and disillusioned. Moreover, the Jedi's failures led to the rise of the Empire and her friend and mentor turning to evil. 

The last thing she'd want is for Luke to restart the Order. Maybe it's me but I liked Luke in TLJ. He's at a place where Ahsoka was when she left. 

I doubt she'd really be keen on going back to the old days of the Jedi imposing their peace on the Galaxy while turning a blind eye to the rot within their ranks.


----------



## pukunui

Paul Farquhar said:


> Anakin's failure to mindwipe R2 is a plot point in one TCW story.



Yes, I remember that arc!


----------



## Shades of Eternity

Man, just finished watching the Droids Episode "The Race to the Finish." It had more Boba Fett than the last two episodes of the Book of Boba Fett...yesh.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

embee said:


> Disappointment and constant warning against what Luke is trying to do.
> 
> Ahsoka left the Order, betrayed and disillusioned. Moreover, the Jedi's failures led to the rise of the Empire and her friend and mentor turning to evil.
> 
> The last thing she'd want is for Luke to restart the Order. Maybe it's me but I liked Luke in TLJ. He's at a place where Ahsoka was when she left.
> 
> I doubt she'd really be keen on going back to the old days of the Jedi imposing their peace on the Galaxy while turning a blind eye to the rot within their ranks.



Whilst Ahsoka wouldn't approve of Luke's attempt to rebuild the jedi order, at least not in anything resembling it's old form, she has probably learned that trying to argue a Skywalker out of anything isn't a good idea!


----------



## Paul Farquhar

embee said:


> 5) To cast a live-action Cal Kestis, you'd ideally be looking for a ginger actor around 40 years old.
> 
> 6) Domnhall Gleeson would be a fine choice except...



Cal Kestis looks exactly like his voice actor, Cameron Monaghan, who is 28. It's a lot easier to age someone up with makeup than age them down.

Not to mention that it would be rather odd for Cal's American accent to transmogrify into an Irish one!


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

I wish we knew how much time has passed between the first and second meeting between Din and Ahsoka. As calm and relaxed as she was in episode 6, it makes me think that whatever will happen in her series will be in between the two meetings. I don't think she would be taking a break like that if she and Sabine were still hunting for Ezra and Thrawn, assuming that will still be the plot for that.


----------



## MarkB

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> I wish we knew how much time has passed between the first and second meeting between Din and Ahsoka. As calm and relaxed as she was in episode 6, it makes me think that whatever will happen in her series will be in between the two meetings. I don't think she would be taking a break like that if she and Sabine were still hunting for Ezra and Thrawn, assuming that will still be the plot for that.



It can't have been all that long. More likely, Ahsoka is still following clues prior to her meeting with Sabine, and she has some time to kill while some contacts of hers are making investigations.


----------



## Aeson

Another, there is.


Paul Farquhar said:


> Cal Kestis looks exactly like his voice actor, Cameron Monaghan, who is 28. It's a lot easier to age someone up with makeup than age them down.
> 
> Not to mention that it would be rather odd for Cal's American accent to transmogrify into an Irish one!



He's an excellent actor also. He was on Shameless and Gotham. He's had some pretty intense roles.


----------



## Janx

CapnZapp said:


> Weren't they?
> 
> The plotting is utterly basic. It's as if they don't even bother trying to convince us Fett is a believable crime lord. Everybody in Fett's circle introduced by this show is utterly cardboard cutout and one-dimensional.
> 
> How bad or dull must a Star Wars show be before you consider it actively so...?
> 
> I mean, I'm surprised since I was convinced these Fett-centric episodes had established themselves as the new definition of an actively dull SW show by now...?



More evidence to the problem:

the slo-poke car chase with the power strangers in pursuit...

giving away 2 episodes to The Mandolorian

The Boba Showba should have Fett actually struggling with his past as a bad guy bounty hunter, working with limited resources (Mr. I have plenty of credits). Suffering a huge setback like HIS base being blown up.


----------



## Janx

Meanwhile, in Episode 2 of The Mandolorian season 3...

they never should have given over entire episodes to non-Boba-and-his-plotline characters. A day in the life of the Gamorians? Sure. Mando? No. He literally has his own show.

The latest ep end in Luke making the Lucas-Mistake with Grogu.  Isolating children to destroy attachment is how you get monsters. Making him choose between Bilbo's shirt and a light saber? Take both. Duh.


----------



## Stalker0

Janx said:


> The latest ep end in Luke making the Lucas-Mistake with Grogu.  Isolating children to destroy attachment is how you get monsters.



Sure, but remember this is the luke that destroyed the death star not that long ago. He's full of ambition, ready to rebuild the jedi back to their glory days. He hasn't really stopped to consider that the Jedi were wrong in many ways.

That's what makes Ahsoka such an interesting companion, she not only can fill in years of Jedi history for Luke, but she can also walk him through what she considers some of the mistakes. I hope they actually do that (whether its on screen or not), and not just have her pop in, hang out with luke for a day, and then just leave without telling him a lot of things.


----------



## Stalker0

I don't mind the mando focused episode as a part of Boba Fett innately, I mean we had a boba focused episode in mando as well. So the concept of doing that in star wars shows I can respect.

But I do think its a mistake because frankly....the Mandolorian is just plain better. He's more badass, more interesting, has more interesting side characters near him, has actually plot that I give a crap about. So bringing him back just makes it all the more obvious.

I think one of the issues with the Book of boba is that its spread too thin. If they wanted to do a backstory about Boba getting out of the rancor pit and working with the sand people, fine there's your season 1. If you want to show him taking power and becoming a crime boss, fine there's your season 1. It feels like they are just bouncing around with him, and none of its feels fully satisfying.


----------



## MarkB

Stalker0 said:


> Sure, but remember this is the luke that destroyed the death star not that long ago. He's full of ambition, ready to rebuild the jedi back to their glory days. He hasn't really stopped to consider that the Jedi were wrong in many ways.
> 
> That's what makes Ahsoka such an interesting companion, she not only can fill in years of Jedi history for Luke, but she can also walk him through what she considers some of the mistakes. I hope they actually do that (whether its on screen or not), and not just have her pop in, hang out with luke for a day, and then just leave without telling him a lot of things.



Probably not very successfully, as this is still the Luke who winds up failing at teaching a new generation of Jedi shortly before the sequel trilogy. Ultimately, he'll only truly come to see his mistakes once he meets Rey.


----------



## Stalker0

MarkB said:


> Probably not very successfully, as this is still the Luke who winds up failing at teaching a new generation of Jedi shortly before the sequel trilogy. Ultimately, he'll only truly come to see his mistakes once he meets Rey.



Agreed, that is the second character arc for Luke, finding a new understanding that there was a way beyond the Jedi teachings. And if he hadn't died immediatley that might have been a nice way for him to go. But....alas.

Of course, there's always rumors they are going to shelf the new trilogy and replace it with something else, so who the heck knows at this point.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> Probably not very successfully, as this is still the Luke who winds up failing at teaching a new generation of Jedi shortly before the sequel trilogy. Ultimately, he'll only truly come to see his mistakes once he meets Rey.



Not sure that having your Darksider nephew murder all of your students is exactly "failing at teaching" the rest.



Stalker0 said:


> Sure, but remember this is the luke that destroyed the death star not that long ago. He's full of ambition, ready to rebuild the jedi back to their glory days. He hasn't really stopped to consider that the Jedi were wrong in many ways.



Even more than that, he has an idealized vision of what the Jedi Order was, and represents. He assumes that all of his teachings are, pardon the expression, Gospel Truth.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> Not sure that having your Darksider nephew murder all of your students is exactly "failing at teaching" the rest.



No, that was the result of the failure, not the cause.


----------



## BrokenTwin

Yeah, I was mildly interested in the Book of Boba Fett, but outside of the Mandalorian episodes, it just has not been very engaging at all. Fett's motivation doesn't feel coherent or real, and while I love me some Danny Trejo, both the Rancor and "Recruit Teens with Attitude!" portions were excessively cringey. I did enjoy seeing the tuskens fleshed out more, but really wish that had gone somewhere more productive. Like, bare minimum, have the kid survive and be part of the main cast.

It feels like the show is too busy setting up groundwork for other projects than actually trying to be good in and of itself. Boba Fett feels like a very flat and boring character who's given a "white man learns the culture of the savages" storyline with the tuskens. And we've been given zero reasons to actually care about his struggle. Like, written down, the plot sounds fun. A bounty hunter escapes certain death, has what can only be described as a spiritual awakening via exposure to another people's culture, and decides to become an upstart crime lord for reasons(?) while an out-of-town major syndicate trying to take over the same turf. But nobody seems to have any actual beliefs in anything, so there's no ideological clash beyond "I want to be the one getting rich by oppressing these people." But Fett apparently has no problem with credits, so it's literally just a power trip for him? It's all WHAT and no WHY.

And Luke in the most recent episode... nostalgia bait with the training sequence aside, way to accurately recreate all of the worst aspects of the Jedi. Force Grogu to re-experience the most tramatic memories in his life where his friends and family (and likely abductors) were gunned down by laser fire, then subject him to training by having a droid shoot laser fire at him without warning. Then tell him he's not allowed to have attachments in life despite having more than a few yourself. I swear, the more I look back at Star Wars canon the more I feel like the Sith were the lesser evil.


----------



## Ryujin

BrokenTwin said:


> Yeah, I was mildly interested in the Book of Boba Fett, but outside of the Mandalorian episodes, it just has not been very engaging at all. Fett's motivation doesn't feel coherent or real, and while I love me some Danny Trejo, both the Rancor and "Recruit Teens with Attitude!" portions were excessively cringey. I did enjoy seeing the tuskens fleshed out more, but really wish that had gone somewhere more productive. Like, bare minimum, have the kid survive and be part of the main cast.
> 
> It feels like the show is too busy setting up groundwork for other projects than actually trying to be good in and of itself. Boba Fett feels like a very flat and boring character who's given a "white man learns the culture of the savages" storyline with the tuskens. And we've been given zero reasons to actually care about his struggle. Like, written down, the plot sounds fun. A bounty hunter escapes certain death, has what can only be described as a spiritual awakening via exposure to another people's culture, and decides to become an upstart crime lord for reasons(?) while an out-of-town major syndicate trying to take over the same turf. But nobody seems to have any actual beliefs in anything, so there's no ideological clash beyond "I want to be the one getting rich by oppressing these people." But Fett apparently has no problem with credits, so it's literally just a power trip for him? It's all WHAT and no WHY.
> 
> And Luke in the most recent episode... nostalgia bait with the training sequence aside, way to accurately recreate all of the worst aspects of the Jedi. Force Grogu to re-experience the most tramatic memories in his life where his friends and family (and likely abductors) were gunned down by laser fire, then subject him to training by having a droid shoot laser fire at him without warning. Then tell him he's not allowed to have attachments in life despite having more than a few yourself. I swear, the more I look back at Star Wars canon the more I feel like the Sith were the lesser evil.



The problem, as I see it, being that both sides are absolutists. Time that the Jedi went slightly gray, or at least acknowledged that shadow exists.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Ryujin said:


> The problem, as I see it, being that both sides are absolutists. Time that the Jedi went slightly gray, or at least acknowledged that shadow exists.




They were there in the very old days of KOTOR. Maybe the High Republic books and shows will explain when and why that changed.


----------



## Stalker0

Ryujin said:


> The problem, as I see it, being that both sides are absolutists. Time that the Jedi went slightly gray, or at least acknowledged that shadow exists.



So the thing to remember is that when Lucas designed the force it wasn’t the modern ying/yang concept we love today, it’s more like white snow trying to remain pure from darkness.

the concept is that giving in to emotion and attachment ultimately leads towards evil. People can tolerate it to a certain extent, but the corruption is inevitable.

One of the absolute best renditions of this was Jacen Solo from the legacy books. Jacen tries to go grey, not believing in a good side and bad side. And he is so careful, constantly checking his motives and his rationalizations. And yet the reader gets to the corruption, it’s slow,
Taking place over several books, but in the end he succumbs.

you could argue that the tragedy of Star Wars is the inevitable corruption of power, that the Jedi only stay “good” by giving up the very things a normal person would consider barbaric, because Normal people would be too corrupted by the power they wield


----------



## BrokenTwin

Ryujin said:


> The problem, as I see it, being that both sides are absolutists. Time that the Jedi went slightly gray, or at least acknowledged that shadow exists.



I mean, when one side is hell-bent on eradicating anybody who doesn't share their beliefs in how the magic should be used... a heavy portion of the known Sith were former Jedi who went rogue for fairly legitimate reasons (Count Dooku wanted to expose the corruption in the Republic and outright told Obi-Wan that a Sith was running the place, Anakin desperately needed a proper therapist  and wanted to actually care about people outside of the cult, Kylo woke up to his "no attachments" uncle and mentor standing above him with a drawn blade and murder in his eyes) and were convinced to fight against the organization that failed them. The organization that, by canon, feels zero issue with dismembering and executing people without trial, brainwashing people they consider "weak-minded", separating children from their parents and telling them to suck it up, starting wars using a slave army, and overthrowing a democratically elected senate when it looks like the leader given wartime powers MIGHT not give them up afterwards. Then turning tail and hiding when the empire is formed instead of attempting to actually help the rebellion fight back against a brutal dictatorship that they were at LEAST partially responsible for helping cause. And that's just in the Lucas-directed movies.

It feels a lot like a militaristic cult vs a bunch of libertarians that got out with the secret sauce. Some of the latter may be genocidal ego-maniacs, but it's still hard to root for their opponents.


----------



## MarkB

BrokenTwin said:


> I mean, when one side is hell-bent on eradicating anybody who doesn't share their beliefs in how the magic should be used... a heavy portion of the known Sith were former Jedi who went rogue for fairly legitimate reasons (Count Dooku wanted to expose the corruption in the Republic and outright told Obi-Wan that a Sith was running the place, Anakin desperately needed a proper therapist  and wanted to actually care about people outside of the cult, Kylo woke up to his "no attachments" uncle and mentor standing above him with a drawn blade and murder in his eyes) and were convinced to fight against the organization that failed them. The organization that, by canon, feels zero issue with dismembering and executing people without trial, brainwashing people they consider "weak-minded", separating children from their parents and telling them to suck it up, starting wars using a slave army, and overthrowing a democratically elected senate when it looks like the leader given wartime powers MIGHT not give them up afterwards. Then turning tail and hiding when the empire is formed instead of attempting to actually help the rebellion fight back against a brutal dictatorship that they were at LEAST partially responsible for helping cause. And that's just in the Lucas-directed movies.
> 
> It feels a lot like a militaristic cult vs a bunch of libertarians that got out with the secret sauce. Some of the latter may be genocidal ego-maniacs, but it's still hard to root for their opponents.



I think that's part of what led to their downfall. They saw Jedi falling to the dark side on account of what would be perfectly normal attachments, loyalties and good intentions, and the Masters, having long since mastered control over their emotions, just began more and more to believe that any unguarded emotional attachment was a path to evil, having lost the perspective needed to realise how difficult and damaging it would be to force that level of detachment upon those who lacked their level of control.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

BrokenTwin said:


> Then turning tail and hiding when the empire is formed instead of attempting to actually help the rebellion fight back against a brutal dictatorship that they were at LEAST partially responsible for helping cause. And that's just in the Lucas-directed movies.




They went from hundreds of Jedi down to a handful because of Order 66, so what were they supposed to do when they were just smashed and murdered by the Sith running the Republic? The good guys lost the war in the prequel trilogy and had to wait nearly 20 years for the unlikely events of the original trilogy to happen before the Empire could finally be defeated.


----------



## Ryujin

Stalker0 said:


> So the thing to remember is that when Lucas designed the force it wasn’t the modern ying/yang concept we love today, it’s more like white snow trying to remain pure from darkness.
> 
> the concept is that giving in to emotion and attachment ultimately leads towards evil. People can tolerate it to a certain extent, but the corruption is inevitable.
> 
> One of the absolute best renditions of this was Jacen Solo from the legacy books. Jacen tries to go grey, not believing in a good side and bad side. And he is so careful, constantly checking his motives and his rationalizations. And yet the reader gets to the corruption, it’s slow,
> Taking place over several books, but in the end he succumbs.
> 
> you could argue that the tragedy of Star Wars is the inevitable corruption of power, that the Jedi only stay “good” by giving up the very things a normal person would consider barbaric, because Normal people would be too corrupted by the power they wield



Arthurian Tales type stuff. There's only one problem with that. Arthurian Knights also fell "to the dark side." The bough that refuses to bend, instead breaks.


----------



## BrokenTwin

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> They went from hundreds of Jedi down to a handful because of Order 66, so what were they supposed to do when they were just smashed and murdered by the Sith running the Republic? The good guys lost the war in the prequel trilogy and had to wait nearly 20 years for the unlikely events of the original trilogy to happen before the Empire could finally be defeated.



Yeah, they got nearly annihilated. By the army of cloned child soldiers they decided to use to crush a rebellion against the Republic. After they failed to perform coup d'état against Senator Palpatine. For a legitimate reason, but it's not like they tried to let anyone outside the Order know that.


----------



## MarkB

BrokenTwin said:


> Yeah, they got nearly annihilated. By the army of cloned child soldiers they decided to use to crush a rebellion against the Republic.



Yeah, that part's always bugged the hell out of me. But it's not just the Jedi - literally _nobody_ in the Republic seems to have a problem with breeding a race of cannon fodder to fight their war for them.


BrokenTwin said:


> After they failed to perform coup d'état against Senator Palpatine. For a legitimate reason, but it's not like they tried to let anyone outside the Order know that.



It's not as though doing so would have made the slightest difference. This is the guy who successfully orchestrated both sides of a galactic conflict. Going up against him in a propaganda campaign would be a hopeless gesture.


----------



## Staffan

MarkB said:


> Yeah, that part's always bugged the hell out of me. But it's not just the Jedi - literally _nobody_ in the Republic seems to have a problem with breeding a race of cannon fodder to fight their war for them.



They didn't exactly breed them themselves. It was more that the Republic was getting its butt kicked by the Separatists until Obi-Wan discovered that someone had ordered a clone army in their name and no-one looked a gift Trojan bantha in the mouth.


----------



## BrokenTwin

MarkB said:


> It's not as though doing so would have made the slightest difference. This is the guy who successfully orchestrated both sides of a galactic conflict. Going up against him in a propaganda campaign would be a hopeless gesture.



Even if they couldn't win the propaganda war, it probably would have been good for anybody who rebelled against him to know that he was a Sith lord who could shoot lightning from his fingers.


----------



## MarkB

BrokenTwin said:


> Even if they couldn't win the propaganda war, it probably would have been good for anybody who rebelled against him to know that he was a Sith lord who could shoot lightning from his fingers.



And how do you tell them? Even if they'd broadcast it across the galaxy it would've been just another rumour spread by the remnants of a traitorous organisation. 20 years later, Imperial propaganda has been so effective that practically nobody even knows what a Jedi is.


----------



## Aeson

If they could find a younger actor to take the role, should Luke become a reoccurring character? Would his own show work? Would feature films be a better fit? I think at some point they will have to move away from the CGI Luke.

Many moons ago, I attempted to run a Star Wars d20 game. One of the players didn't like the idea of cameos from characters from the movies. He felt they would just take over. Also, the GM wouldn't do them justice as NPCS. Did it feel that way with Luke here? Was it just right?


----------



## Maxperson

MarkB said:


> 20 years later, Imperial propaganda has been so effective that practically nobody even knows what a Jedi is.



Which in and of itself is dumb.  Even among humans, 20 years isn't enough for most of the race to die out, let alone forget something that was common knowledge.  And then there are the myriad of races that live even longer.  Almost everyone would still know what a Jedi was, propaganda or no.


----------



## Zardnaar

Maxperson said:


> Which in and of itself is dumb.  Even among humans, 20 years isn't enough for most of the race to die out, let alone forget something that was common knowledge.  And then there are the myriad of races that live even longer.  Almost everyone would still know what a Jedi was, propaganda or no.




 It was kinda supposed to be more like 50 years but Lucas changed his mind apparently. 

  The 80's lore such as it was got incorporated into the Thrawn Trilogy and 90's EU. 

 But Vader as Luke's old man didn't make that much sense. Once again Lucas changed his mind. 

 Origin Nally the cliners were revolting against the republic and the Clone Wars were republic vs the cloners. 

 They even went as far as a canceled Kenner toyline 1985/86 iirc.

 So I guess Lucas was back and forth on things from around 1974-1997/98.


----------



## Zardnaar

Maxperson said:


> Which in and of itself is dumb.  Even among humans, 20 years isn't enough for most of the race to die out, let alone forget something that was common knowledge.  And then there are the myriad of races that live even longer.  Almost everyone would still know what a Jedi was, propaganda or no.




Up to a point. Know much about the Navy Seals? Jedi are rarer than them. There's something like 1 Jedi for every 100 worlds in the empire.

  They're the equivalent of historical Jesus.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Maxperson said:


> Which in and of itself is dumb.  Even among humans, 20 years isn't enough for most of the race to die out, let alone forget something that was common knowledge.  And then there are the myriad of races that live even longer.  Almost everyone would still know what a Jedi was, propaganda or no.



I think because what we have seen has focused on the jedi, it has given a false impression of how well known they where. There where only ever a few hundred in a galaxy of hundreds of trillions of people. Most people would never see a jedi, and their status would be semi-mythical even before the purge.


----------



## Morrus

Paul Farquhar said:


> I think because what we have seen has focused on the jedi, it has given a false impression of how well known they where. There where only ever a few hundred in a galaxy of hundreds of trillions of people. Most people would never see a jedi, and their status would be semi-mythical even before the purge.



It's not that everybody would be expected to have seen them in person, but there are small groups on Earth that everybody is pretty much aware of even if they don't know the details. Famous football teams, for example. Hollywood actors. The SAS. The Mafia. And historical groups like the Templars, Spartans, etc. are remembered hundreds of years later. It does seem weird that in an advanced industrial galaxy with instantaneous comms that people wouldn't know of the magic lightsaber wielding space wizard galactic peacekeepers. If you lived in the Empire, you'd know what a jedi is (or was). You probably remember them from when you were a teenager, and if not your parents do.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Morrus said:


> It's not that everybody would be expected to have seen them in person, but there are small groups on Earth that everybody is pretty much aware of even if they don't know the details. Famous football teams, for example. Hollywood actors. The SAS. The Mafia. And historical groups like the Templars, Spartans, etc. are remembered hundreds of years later. It does seem weird that in an advanced industrial galaxy with instantaneous comms that people wouldn't know of the magic lightsaber wielding space wizard galactic peacekeepers. If you lived in the Empire, you'd know what a jedi is (or was). You probably remember them from when you were a teenager, and if not your parents do.



You would have heard stories. But then when a different set of stories came out you would have no personal experience to contradict them. Templars and Spartans are both remembered more for the lies told about them (the were devil worshipers, they weren't slave owning bastards), and those lies became accepted very quickly.


----------



## Morrus

Paul Farquhar said:


> You would have heard stories. But then when a different set of stories came out you would have no personal experience to contradict them.



I strongly disagree, clearly, with your position here. I'll restate that I believe the jedi would be widely known of for the reasons above. 

(George Lucas agrees with you of course)


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

For out of the way places like Tatooine, Jedi would be a lot more legend and myth, than reality. Then the closer you got to the galactic core, the more real and everyday they would have been. But also, the High Republic era, which is a couple hundred years before the movies, is giving us canon on what it was like when the Order was larger, and also what caused them to become the smaller group they are in the prequel movies.

And wow, I just looked up how many Jedi there were supposed to be at the time of Order 66 and there were about 10,000?!?


----------



## Maxperson

Paul Farquhar said:


> I think because what we have seen has focused on the jedi, it has given a false impression of how well known they where. There where only ever a few hundred in a galaxy of hundreds of trillions of people. Most people would never see a jedi, and their status would be semi-mythical even before the purge.



They were the protectors of the galaxy for thousands of generations.  Even if you never saw one, you knew they existed and probably knew someone who did, or maybe a friend of a friend.  You also knew about light sabers.  That sort of thing isn't going to be left out of almost every story about the Jedi.  That's backed up by the Star Wars cantina scene.  As soon as Ben whips his out, everyone freezes and becomes really wary, then turn to mind their own business.  They KNOW.


----------



## Maxperson

Zardnaar said:


> Up to a point. Know much about the Navy Seals? Jedi are rarer than them. There's something like 1 Jedi for every 100 worlds in the empire.
> 
> They're the equivalent of historical Jesus.



I know that they have teams that are assigned numbers. Seal Team 6 is a famous one. I know some of their training techniques.  I've heard stories about their missions.  I know one Navy Seal hopeful died and another was hospitalized after hell week.   I know multiple people who know some and/or have worked with them. I may have even met some, but I don't know for sure, because they didn't have their lightsabers out.


----------



## Eric V

Imagine living in New York in 1965.  You're 30 years old.  You've never personally met anyone in the mafia, but you know they run all the racketeering, prostitution, drugs, etc because of the news, stories you've heard, etc.  Most people in your age group have similar knowledge.

Now, in your 60s in 1995, would you possibly have forgotten they ran things?  Again, you never personally met one, but to think they never really existed?

In the Clone Wars, everybody knows who the Jedi are, even in the Outer Rim.  It's beyond bizarre that everyone just plum forgot about them and relegated them to myth _within their own lifetime._


----------



## Mallus

Janx said:


> Meanwhile, in Episode 2 of The Mandolorian season 3...



Yep. 


Janx said:


> The latest ep end in Luke making the Lucas-Mistake with Grogu.



The episode also made the Lucas-Mistake with Luke (in Return of the Jedi, at least). Watching Luke being all stoic and proper Jedi-like is as interesting as watching grass grow. In fact, I would have preferred to watch the scenery on that planet for 10 - 15 minutes. Looked really beautiful. 

The contrast between Luke interacting with Grogu and Din interacting with him -- while in a faceless helmet! -- was startling.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Mallus said:


> Yep.
> 
> The episode also made the Lucas-Mistake with Luke (in Return of the Jedi, at least). Watching Luke being all stoic and proper Jedi-like is as interesting as watching grass grow. In fact, I would have preferred to watch the scenery on that planet for 10 - 15 minutes. Looked really beautiful.
> 
> The contrast between Luke interacting with Grogu and Din interacting with him -- while in a faceless helmet! -- was startling.




Just goes to show how people who enjoy the same overall brand can view things so differently. I thought every minute with Luke was very good, but I also was a kid when Star Wars was brand-new and no one was better than Luke for many years after seeing the movie for the first time.


----------



## Dioltach

That explosion scene was a homage to The Untouchables. I wonder if that's an indication of how the "war" will be handled.


----------



## Janx

Mallus said:


> Yep.
> 
> The episode also made the Lucas-Mistake with Luke (in Return of the Jedi, at least). Watching Luke being all stoic and proper Jedi-like is as interesting as watching grass grow. In fact, I would have preferred to watch the scenery on that planet for 10 - 15 minutes. Looked really beautiful.
> 
> The contrast between Luke interacting with Grogu and Din interacting with him -- while in a faceless helmet! -- was startling.



yeah, the whole thing was humdrum in a way the training montage on Degobah wasn't.

At times, Filoni has a good feel for the SW universe, and other times, he doesn't have a good feel for storytelling/pacing. A proper argument between Luke and Din might have been interesting.

Sadly, Kobra Kai S4 might be doing a better job of opposing styles/personalities than Luke and Din.


----------



## wicked cool

so we have 2 pathways ahead-one Grogu goes with the mandalorian and there is no canon rewritten. Or he stays and the part where Kylo is the first student is rewritten (he says in one of the movies hes the first of Lukes students). 

Also-Bane is a bounty hunter hired by someone. Do we think that we are possibly getting a certain Dark sun leader? maybe Emilia Clarke?


----------



## BrokenTwin

I'd much prefer if Grogu went with Mando. If for no other reason than, looking at how Luke treats him vs how Mando treats him... one seems focused on doing what's best for him, the other seems to see him as a means to an end.


----------



## MarkB

wicked cool said:


> Also-Bane is a bounty hunter hired by someone. Do we think that we are possibly getting a certain Dark sun leader? maybe Emilia Clarke?



Is there any reason to think that he wasn't just hired by the Pykes?


----------



## Janx

MarkB said:


> Is there any reason to think that he wasn't just hired by the Pykes?



yeah, I thought that was pretty obvious.


----------



## Staffan

wicked cool said:


> Also-Bane is a bounty hunter hired by someone. Do we think that we are possibly getting a certain Dark sun leader? maybe Emilia Clarke?






MarkB said:


> Is there any reason to think that he wasn't just hired by the Pykes?






Janx said:


> yeah, I thought that was pretty obvious.



It might be a situation like in Hawkeye, where the Tracksuit Mafia turned out to be working for the Kingpin, and the assassin that shows up halfway through the show was hired by another person also working for/with him.


----------



## Stalker0

Mallus said:


> Yep.
> 
> The episode also made the Lucas-Mistake with Luke (in Return of the Jedi, at least). Watching Luke being all stoic and proper Jedi-like is as interesting as watching grass grow. In fact, I would have preferred to watch the scenery on that planet for 10 - 15 minutes. Looked really beautiful.
> 
> The contrast between Luke interacting with Grogu and Din interacting with him -- while in a faceless helmet! -- was startling.



I think the cgi may be partly to blame. CGI Luke looks pretty good but they seem to take things really slow when he’s talking and interacting, I’m guessing to make it easy for the cgi.


----------



## Staffan

Stalker0 said:


> I think the cgi may be partly to blame. CGI Luke looks pretty good but they seem to take things really slow when he’s talking and interacting, I’m guessing to make it easy for the cgi.



I don't know if it's true, but folks on Twitter claimed that Luke's voice wasn't genuine Mark Hamill, but rather an AI-generated voice trained on audio books Hamill had read. That would explain the uncanny (as in "uncanny valley") acting.


----------



## MarkB

Staffan said:


> I don't know if it's true, but folks on Twitter claimed that Luke's voice wasn't genuine Mark Hamill, but rather an AI-generated voice trained on audio books Hamill had read. That would explain the uncanny (as in "uncanny valley") acting.



I feel a disturbance in the Force, as though thousands of voice actors had suddenly cried out in anguish, and been suddenly silenced.

But more seriously, I find that a little unlikely - it's something that might be done to recapture the voice of a deceased actor, if the technology is there, but Mark Hamill is still around, and still perfectly willing to work on Star Wars projects.


----------



## Mallus

Janx said:


> At times, Filoni has a good feel for the SW universe, and other times, he doesn't have a good feel for storytelling/pacing.



I chalk it up to him loving Star Wars a bit too much for someone whose job is to create more of it. He occasionally forgets you need to do more than put these characters onscreen (but he's usually good - I really enjoyed his use of Thrawn in Rebels). 

That said, I'm seeing a lot of really positive reactions to the last episode. It clearly worked for some people.


----------



## Maxperson

wicked cool said:


> so we have 2 pathways ahead-one Grogu goes with the mandalorian and there is no canon rewritten. Or he stays and the part where Kylo is the first student is rewritten (he says in one of the movies hes the first of Lukes students).



That cat is out of the bag already.  Whether he stays or goes, as soon as Luke started training him he became Luke's first student.  All that remains to be seen is whether he dies by Kylo's hand or not.


wicked cool said:


> Do we think that we are possibly getting a certain Dark sun leader?



My vote is for Borys of Ur Draxa


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Staffan said:


> I don't know if it's true, but folks on Twitter claimed that Luke's voice wasn't genuine Mark Hamill, but rather an AI-generated voice trained on audio books Hamill had read. That would explain the uncanny (as in "uncanny valley") acting.




No, he recorded the lines and then they used the tech to "de-age" his voice, so it sounded like Mark would have when in his 20's. they did the same in the Mandalorian episode and I think they explained it in the Making of Mando season 2 episode.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

wicked cool said:


> (he says in one of the movies hes the first of Lukes students).




Pretty sure that he means he is the first student at the new Academy/Temple, not first student ever. And wouldn't Luke's attempts to train Leia make her his first student ever? Or is that purely non-canon now?

Besides, there is the canon comic book about those early years and the destruction of the temple by Kylo, that may say more on that, but I have not read it. Ben Solo is about 4-5 years old as the Academy is being built, so him being the first student after it is ready makes sense still. Also, the Legends date for it being finished and ready for students is 11 ABY, or about two years from the start of construction in episode 6, if they use the same year for canon.


----------



## Mallus

Stalker0 said:


> I think the cgi may be partly to blame. CGI Luke looks pretty good but they seem to take things really slow when he’s talking and interacting, I’m guessing to make it easy for the cgi.



Could be. Mando and Grogu work so well thanks, in large part, to Pascal's acting.


----------



## Stalker0

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> No, he recorded the lines and then they used the tech to "de-age" his voice, so it sounded like Mark would have when in his 20's. they did the same in the Mandalorian episode and I think they explained it in the Making of Mando season 2 episode.



That makes sense. It does both sound like Mark and not like Mark, so this may explain it.


----------



## Staffan

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> No, he recorded the lines and then they used the tech to "de-age" his voice, so it sounded like Mark would have when in his 20's. they did the same in the Mandalorian episode and I think they explained it in the Making of Mando season 2 episode.



That makes more sense, and still explains why it doesn't quite work.


----------



## Maxperson

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Pretty sure that he means he is the first student at the new Academy/Temple, not first student ever. And wouldn't Luke's attempts to train Leia make her his first student ever? Or is that purely non-canon now?
> 
> Besides, there is the canon comic book about those early years and the destruction of the temple by Kylo, that may say more on that, but I have not read it. Ben Solo is about 4-5 years old as the Academy is being built, so him being the first student after it is ready makes sense still. Also, the Legends date for it being finished and ready for students is 11 ABY, or about two years from the start of construction in episode 6, if they use the same year for canon.



It could also be perspective.  If Baby Yoda has come and gone before Kylo ever gets there, he might believe that he was the first student and just be incorrect.


----------



## billd91

Morrus said:


> It's not that everybody would be expected to have seen them in person, but there are small groups on Earth that everybody is pretty much aware of even if they don't know the details. Famous football teams, for example. Hollywood actors. The SAS. The Mafia. And historical groups like the Templars, Spartans, etc. are remembered hundreds of years later. It does seem weird that in an advanced industrial galaxy with instantaneous comms that people wouldn't know of the magic lightsaber wielding space wizard galactic peacekeepers. If you lived in the Empire, you'd know what a jedi is (or was). You probably remember them from when you were a teenager, and if not your parents do.



Remember some stories, sure. But in 20 years, the context of those stories could have significantly changed under propaganda pressure from the Empire. Consider the idea that a xenophobic government, in the aftermath of a war largely against aliens where many people are grappling with tremendous amounts of economic difficulty, might use those factors to come to power, seize the media, order a dictatorially-run and oversized military around to suppress dissent, and manipulate the public. The Nazis turned the German public and the fringe anti-Semitism there into a genocide machine behind a monomaniacal cult of personality in less time.
Granted, there's a vast difference in scale - but then understanding the immensity of the Republic/Empire/New Republic and space in general has never been the series's strong point.


----------



## Morrus

billd91 said:


> Remember some stories, sure. But in 20 years, the context of those stories could have significantly changed under propaganda pressure from the Empire.



No amount of propaganda is going to erase my memory of seeing a magic space wizard with a laser sword. Heck, the original Star Wars films were longer ago than Jedi were to those in A New Hope.


----------



## billd91

Morrus said:


> No amount of propaganda is going to erase my memory of seeing a magic space wizard with a laser sword. Heck, the original Star Wars films were longer ago than Jedi were to those in A New Hope.



But are you going to remember them as people who stood up against oppression? Or as weird, religious recluses who stabbed the Grand Army of the Republic and the great Chancellor in the back just as they were on the verge of triumphing in saving Republic space from trade-controlling alien separatists and the big banking consortium? Because that's the real question.


----------



## MarkB

Morrus said:


> No amount of propaganda is going to erase my memory of seeing a magic space wizard with a laser sword.



Assuming you were lucky enough to do so. With only 10,000 Jedi in the entire galaxy, the odds are against you.


Morrus said:


> Heck, the original Star Wars films were longer ago than Jedi were to those in A New Hope.



And even within them, there are revisions that have become accepted canon, like Greedo shooting first, or Han's meeting with Jabba. Imagine if you were in a totalitarian regime, in which all media had been revised to match the official story, and even speaking the phrase "Han shot first" would be considered an act of sedition - how long would the memory of that original version persist in the public consciousness?


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Morrus said:


> No amount of propaganda is going to erase my memory of seeing a magic space wizard with a laser sword. Heck, the original Star Wars films were longer ago than Jedi were to those in A New Hope.




Hm, I am trying to think of real world parallels of protest or political groups that had their bigger days in the spotlight 20-40 years ago and are lesser known now to the general public. Here in the US, groups like the Black Panthers or Nation of Islam are past their days of being in the news all the time from the 70's and 80's. I can tell you they still exist and who the best known leader of each was, but I am not part of their circle to know much more without having to Google them. And the Jedi basically vanished, rather than just having a reduced profile. Also, compared to other far future scifi stuff, Star Wars does not seem to have a galactic internet. Instead, you have to send your R2 unit into a dangerous situation to access information archives.   lol


----------



## ART!

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Just goes to show how people who enjoy the same overall brand can view things so differently. I thought every minute with Luke was very good, but I also was a kid when Star Wars was brand-new and no one was better than Luke for many years after seeing the movie for the first time.



Same. I can't get enough of OT Luke. 

I was impressed by the face-replacement technology has improved even from a year ago with that last ep of Mando. I think there's a decent chance that in the next 5-10 years or so we will see a series with OT Luke, Han, Leia, etc., recreated using this and/or other computer-assisted technologies. 

Regarding Grogu's choice, here's what I _want_ to be going on (but suspect I'm wrong):

Having helped Grogu get in touch with his early memory of blasters, lightsabers, and violent death, the zapping training droid and Luke displaying his saber kata was actually Luke testing Grogu's reaction and feelings about become a lightsaber-weilding force-user. The choice at the end of the ep is Luke making the distinction clear to Grogu. I suspect Grogu's path is a less potentially violent one than that of most of the of Jedi we've seen, and I want Luke to know this, too.


----------



## Morrus

MarkB said:


> Assuming you were lucky enough to do so. With only 10,000 Jedi in the entire galaxy, the odds are against you.
> 
> And even within them, there are revisions that have become accepted canon, like Greedo shooting first, or Han's meeting with Jabba. Imagine if you were in a totalitarian regime, in which all media had been revised to match the official story, and even speaking the phrase "Han shot first" would be considered an act of sedition - how long would the memory of that original version persist in the public consciousness?



I mean, people can keep repeating the same thing over and over, but it ain't gonna convince me I'd forget the magic laser sword space wizards from back when I was in college. I _understand_ the argument; I just disagree with it.


----------



## MarkB

ART! said:


> Regarding Grogu's choice, here's what I _want_ to be going on (but suspect I'm wrong):
> 
> Having helped Grogu get in touch with his early memory of blasters, lightsabers, and violent death, the zapping training droid and Luke displaying his saber kata was actually Luke testing Grogu's reaction and feelings about become a lightsaber-weilding force-user. The choice at the end of the ep is Luke making the distinction clear to Grogu. I suspect Grogu's path is a less potentially violent one than that of most of the of Jedi we've seen, and I want Luke to know this, too.



I'm not so sure Grogu's path is any less potentially violent than that of any other Jedi. Just as a biological specimen he's valuable enough to have been fought over and probably will be again, he's growing up in a lawless region of the galaxy in a time when new threats are rising from the ashes of the Empire, and as a person he doesn't seem to be particularly inclined towards dispassion and serenity.

Whether he goes with Luke or Din, it seems likely that he's going to be trained as a warrior.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

ART! said:


> I was impressed by the face-replacement technology has improved even from a year ago with that last ep of Mando. I think there's a decent chance that in the next 5-10 years or so we will see a series with OT Luke, Han, Leia, etc., recreated using this and/or other computer-assisted technologies.




I don't like the use of dead actors beyond maybe for a minute or two as a final goodbye on film to them. What they did with Tarkin and Leia was alright, but over in Ghostbusters: Aftermath, 



Spoiler



the scene with the ghost of Egon/Harold Ramis


 went on way longer than I was comfortable with, even though he did not speak at all.


----------



## Matchstick

MarkB said:


> I feel a disturbance in the Force, as though thousands of voice actors had suddenly cried out in anguish, and been suddenly silenced.
> 
> But more seriously, I find that a little unlikely - it's something that might be done to recapture the voice of a deceased actor, if the technology is there, but Mark Hamill is still around, and still perfectly willing to work on Star Wars projects.



According to Decider:



> Instead of bringing Hamill in to record the new lines of dialogue, the series — including _The Mandalorian_, apparently! — instead used a program called Respeecher to make Luke sound like it’s 1983 all over again. Sound editor Matthew Wood described the process in an episode of _Disney Gallery: Star Wars: The Mandalorian_: “It’s a neural network you feed information into and it learns. So I had archival material from Mark in that era. We had clean recorded ADR from the original films, a book on tape he’d done from those eras, and then also Star Wars radio plays he had done back in that time. I was able to get clean recordings of that, feed it into the system, and they were able to slice it up and feed their neural network to learn this data.”




If that's true, we're actually seeing Luke here with no Mark Hamill involved at all, which is wild.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Matchstick said:


> If that's true, we're actually seeing Luke here with no Mark Hamill involved at all, which is wild.




He is in the credits, so he was involved, as that was his body with a de-aged face, just like with the episode of Mandalorian, where they only used the stunt double for the fight scene.


----------



## Ryujin

billd91 said:


> Remember some stories, sure. But in 20 years, the context of those stories could have significantly changed under propaganda pressure from the Empire. Consider the idea that a xenophobic government, in the aftermath of a war largely against aliens where many people are grappling with tremendous amounts of economic difficulty, might use those factors to come to power, seize the media, order a dictatorially-run and oversized military around to suppress dissent, and manipulate the public. The Nazis turned the German public and the fringe anti-Semitism there into a genocide machine behind a monomaniacal cult of personality in less time.
> Granted, there's a vast difference in scale - but then understanding the immensity of the Republic/Empire/New Republic and space in general has never been the series's strong point.



It doesn't help seeing that scale when the majority of the really big stuff seems to get started on one little backwater planet.


----------



## Maxperson

billd91 said:


> Remember some stories, sure. But in 20 years, the context of those stories could have significantly changed under propaganda pressure from the Empire.



These aren't fairy tales.  They would be direct stories from people who saw the Jedi or knew the Jedi saved the next settlement over from a bantha attack.  Those wouldn't be affected by imperial propaganda in the slightest.  20 years simply isn't enough time to alter the direct stories and direct knowledge by those who interacted with Jedi.  Especially with long lived species in the galaxy.  Even if there were only 10k Jedi running around like madmen saving and protecting the Republic, a species with a lifespan of 200 or 300 years would have MANY direct contacts who are still alive.  And there would be several such species.  Even for humans with their 100 year lifespan, 20 years wouldn't be enough to dilute the knowledge of Jedi by much.


----------



## Maxperson

billd91 said:


> But are you going to remember them as people who stood up against oppression? Or as weird, religious recluses who stabbed the Grand Army of the Republic and the great Chancellor in the back just as they were on the verge of triumphing in saving Republic space from trade-controlling alien separatists and the big banking consortium? Because that's the real question.



You're going to remember them as the guys who saved the next village, swept in and destroyed the raiders threatening your shipping lane, etc.  The Empire, known for ruthlessness and evil, telling you that the Jedi were bad isn't going to change what you know they did.


----------



## Maxperson

MarkB said:


> And even within them, there are revisions that have become accepted canon, like Greedo shooting first, or Han's meeting with Jabba.



Canon? Yes.  Accepted canon? Hardly.  I don't know of anyone who has accepted that travesty.


----------



## Zardnaar

Maxperson said:


> These aren't fairy tales.  They would be direct stories from people who saw the Jedi or knew the Jedi saved the next settlement over from a bantha attack.  Those wouldn't be affected by imperial propaganda in the slightest.  20 years simply isn't enough time to alter the direct stories and direct knowledge by those who interacted with Jedi.  Especially with long lived species in the galaxy.  Even if there were only 10k Jedi running around like madmen saving and protecting the Republic, a species with a lifespan of 200 or 300 years would have MANY direct contacts who are still alive.  And there would be several such species.  Even for humans with their 100 year lifespan, 20 years wouldn't be enough to dilute the knowledge of Jedi by much.




 Except not much was actually known about the Jedi by the general public to begin with beyond myth and legends.

 And what was known wasn't always positive or accurate (mind tricks, kidnapping kids etc).

 It's roughly the equivalent of sitting down with a member of the Vatican guard except that happening is about 10000 tines more likely.


----------



## Eric V

Zardnaar said:


> Except not much was actually known about the Jedi by the general public to begin with beyond myth and legends.
> 
> And what was known wasn't always positive or accurate (mind tricks, kidnapping kids etc).
> 
> It's roughly the equivalent of sitting down with a member of the Vatican guard except that happening is about 10000 tines more likely.



I don't know...when I watch Clone Wars, everyone they encounter seem pretty familiar with the Jedi.

In the end, 20 years really just isn't long enough, especially with all the long-lived races out there.


----------



## wicked cool

if Grogu survives this i wonder if he will be still a toddler by the time the last jedi starts (would we say hes 2-3 in human years during Boba? starting to walk with basic communication. less than 5


----------



## Maxperson

Zardnaar said:


> Except not much was actually known about the Jedi by the general public to begin with beyond myth and legends.



Everyone and their mother was like, "Jedi mind tricks won't work on me.  My mind is too strong." or "He's a weak minded fool." Even on Tatooine.  Even the junkyard guy knew about mind tricks and who fell for them. Lightsabers were an instant recognition of Jedi, no matter where the Jedi went in the movies.  Hell, they didn't even need to see the lightsabers on.  If someone saw an unignited saber, he or she was like, "It's Jedi!"  The movies contradict that statement pretty thoroughly.


Zardnaar said:


> And what was known wasn't always positive or accurate (mind tricks, kidnapping kids etc).



That's true.  Mostly it was, though.  They saved a LOT of people on a LOT of planets.  That knowledge wouldn't even begin to vanish in a meager 20 years.  Even if the evil, big bad Empire was spreading propaganda.


Zardnaar said:


> It's roughly the equivalent of sitting down with a member of the Vatican guard except that happening is about 10000 tines more likely.



The Vatican guard is constantly running all over the world helping save people from bad guys?  Or are they sitting at the Vatican virtually all the time.  Because those Jedi were stretched thin across the galaxy running around being protectors.  That put them in contact with a hell of a lot more people than you think.


----------



## Zaukrie

Morrus said:


> I strongly disagree, clearly, with your position here. I'll restate that I believe the jedi would be widely known of for the reasons above.
> 
> (George Lucas agrees with you of course)



I agree with Morrus. When a Jedi saves a member of the Senate, that would be galactic news. There would be movies about the Jedi. Books. All kinds of media. There is no way people wouldn't know about them. And certainly no way they'd think the Force wasn't real just a couple decades after they were nearly wiped out. Look at the MCU.....people recognize them on the street. They are all over the news.


----------



## ART!

When I was a lad watching _A New Hope_, I had the distinct impression that the Jedi had not been prevalent for a long, long time - a lot more than just a generation. Enough time for them to have died out of living memory. I assumed Ben Kenobi was older than humans normally get, because he was "a wizard".


----------



## embee

Aeson said:


> Wasn't Max Rebo and his band on Jabba's craft when it went kabluey?



Yes. 

That's not the Max Rebo Band. It's the Max Rebo *Cover *Band.


----------



## billd91

embee said:


> Yes.
> 
> That's not the Max Rebo Band. It's the Max Rebo *Cover *Band.



The Max Re*do* Ban.


----------



## embee

So the spoiler of the week is that...



Spoiler: UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR



Harrison Ford reportedly appears in the finale as a de-aged Han Solo.



It will be interesting to see whether this will turn out to be true.


----------



## Zaukrie

embee said:


> So the spoiler of the week is that...
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: UNSUBSTANTIATED RUMOR
> 
> 
> 
> Harrison Ford reportedly appears in the finale as a de-aged Han Solo.
> 
> 
> 
> It will be interesting to see whether this will turn out to be true.



What I liked about Mando was that it wasn't just nostalgia......Can we please have new Star Wars content?


----------



## MarkB

ART! said:


> When I was a lad watching _A New Hope_, I had the distinct impression that the Jedi had not been prevalent for a long, long time - a lot more than just a generation. Enough time for them to have died out of living memory. I assumed Ben Kenobi was older than humans normally get, because he was "a wizard".



Except that he'd fought in the war alongside Luke's father, serving Leia's (adopted) father.


----------



## ART!

MarkB said:


> Except that he'd fought in the war alongside Luke's father, serving Leia's (adopted) father.



Nothing about that negates any of my aforementioned notions.


----------



## embee

Zaukrie said:


> What I liked about Mando was that it wasn't just nostalgia......Can we please have new Star Wars content?



What I loved about BoBF Ep 6 were the parts that weren't just nostalgia. The Cobb Vanth bookends were amazing to watch. Similarly, the cameo I enjoyed the most in Ep 5 was BD-1. 

To quote Kylo Ren, let the past die. Kill it if you have to.


----------



## ART!

Zaukrie said:


> What I liked about Mando was that it wasn't just nostalgia......Can we please have new Star Wars content?



They may be testing the technology and the waters for a series that would cater to nostalgia _so that_ they can have less of it in their other series (and movies).


----------



## MarkB

ART! said:


> Nothing about that negates any of my aforementioned notions.



Vader hunted down and killed the Jedi, and Luke's told that he murdered his father. By biological necessity that had to have happened after Luke was conceived, which means the Jedi were still around until at least shortly before Luke's birth.


----------



## ART!

MarkB said:


> Vader hunted down and killed the Jedi, and Luke's told that he murdered his father. By biological necessity that had to have happened after Luke was conceived, which means the Jedi were still around until at least shortly before Luke's birth.



That doesn't necessarily follow, because we don't know how long it took Vader to hunt down and kill the Jedi, and Luke's father could have been one of the last ones.


----------



## Zardnaar

Zaukrie said:


> I agree with Morrus. When a Jedi saves a member of the Senate, that would be galactic news. There would be movies about the Jedi. Books. All kinds of media. There is no way people wouldn't know about them. And certainly no way they'd think the Force wasn't real just a couple decades after they were nearly wiped out. Look at the MCU.....people recognize them on the street. They are all over the news.




 The media we consume is focused in the Jedi but what have we actually seen? 

 The Jedi mostly interact with the powerful eg rulers and on the battlefield. 

 They're like the SAS how many people even in a warzone actually interact with them? 

 So they're famous but real information is very short. There was 10000 around half died in the clone wars. 

 Dooku has a quote onscreen of 10000 world's joining  them with your support. That's just one leader of the CIS. 

 Off screen there's less than one Jedi for every 10000 world's. 

 What is known is mostly myth and legends before the purge. 

 After the purge around 200 survive. 

  Then you have a totalitarian regimes burying knowledge of them and slandering them. 

 Anyone with real knowledge of the jedi keep their mouths shut if they know what's good for them. 

 By Rey's time there's virtually none left Luke's academy failed and it's been 50 years since Jedi in any numbers have existed. 

 So 200 surviving Jedi 2 million+ world's and they're in decline and in hiding. 

 Star Wars millennials know virtually nothing the vast majority of Gen X and older never met one and only know the pop culture stuff and those perceptions still filtered through 20 years of propaganda burying them. 

  The clones that served with them serve the empire along with most of the political elite who may have met them. 

 That leaves those reasonably few civilians from the clone wars and the occasional random on Coruscant or elsewhere that met one 20+ years ago. 

 The Empire didn't bury knowledge of the Jedi existing but onscreen it's shown that pre purge the Jedi weren't universally popular either.

 A lightsaber is recognizable but the person seeing it probably can't tell you much beyond that.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Face it, it just adds to other screw-ups by Lucas when he added to the original trilogy. The prequel trilogy ruined the mystery of the Jedi and invalidated a lot of small stuff of the originals, and a lot of what is now Legends material made it worse. It is time to pretend that a couple of those quotes from the original trilogy just do not exist and a lot of the conflicting timing goes away.


----------



## trappedslider

Zaukrie said:


> What I liked about Mando was that it wasn't just nostalgia......Can we please have new Star Wars content?



We tried that, This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.


----------



## Zardnaar

trappedslider said:


> We tried that, This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.




 Much like anything people take that out of context. 

 There were plenty of original SW stories 1991-2012. 

 You have to walk that fine line between original content and you're playing in someone else's sandbox.


----------



## Zaukrie

trappedslider said:


> We tried that, This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.



Those movies printed money. The studio shouldn't care that a few angry people were loud. Also, they should, you know, write better movies. That last one was an abomination (and wasn't a new story, it was nostalgia all the way).


----------



## Zardnaar

Zaukrie said:


> Those movies printed money. The studio shouldn't care that a few angry people were loud. Also, they should, you know, write better movies. That last one was an abomination (and wasn't a new story, it was nostalgia all the way).




 They care if they underperform and one lost money. Billion dollar box office looks good but is "only" 500-600 million in revenue and costs can be in the 400-500 million range now (movie 250-300 million range, marketing 100-150). 

  Solo lost money because the box office vs costs didn't line up. Last I heard all the streamers haven't made money yet.


----------



## trappedslider

Huh, it looks like the editors of the Star Wars wookiepedia removed the long list of "Ruined forever" moments.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Temuera Morrison did an interview recently that if it ever turns out Mace WIndu survived, that he wants Boba to take the bounty and hunt him down for revenge.


----------



## Ryujin

Zaukrie said:


> I agree with Morrus. When a Jedi saves a member of the Senate, that would be galactic news. There would be movies about the Jedi. Books. All kinds of media. There is no way people wouldn't know about them. And certainly no way they'd think the Force wasn't real just a couple decades after they were nearly wiped out. Look at the MCU.....people recognize them on the street. They are all over the news.



Have they ever shown any form of news media in the Star Wars universe? I admittedly haven't seen the last of the prequel series, but I don't recall anything like that. Even the Senate 'broadcasts' seemed to be largely private.


----------



## Zaukrie

Ryujin said:


> Have they ever shown any form of news media in the Star Wars universe? I admittedly haven't seen the last of the prequel series, but I don't recall anything like that. Even the Senate 'broadcasts' seemed to be largely private.



My assumption is they have news, and movies, and books, and holographic games....and Jedi have been around for how many centuries? They'd be featured in all kinds of media. And, they had all that before the Empire, which only formed a couple decades before the first movies. 

I'm not really sure how this is even a discussion. The group has saved planets and societies for centuries. They'd be very well known. But clearly I'm not going to change my mind, and I'm not changing others....so I'm out on this part of the conversation.


----------



## MarkB

Ryujin said:


> Have they ever shown any form of news media in the Star Wars universe? I admittedly haven't seen the last of the prequel series, but I don't recall anything like that. Even the Senate 'broadcasts' seemed to be largely private.



I'm re-watching Rebels, and the Empire broadcasts news/propaganda constantly. It's mandatory to have it running in public meeting places such as bars.


----------



## Ryujin

Zaukrie said:


> My assumption is they have news, and movies, and books, and holographic games....and Jedi have been around for how many centuries? They'd be featured in all kinds of media. And, they had all that before the Empire, which only formed a couple decades before the first movies.
> 
> I'm not really sure how this is even a discussion. The group has saved planets and societies for centuries. They'd be very well known. But clearly I'm not going to change my mind, and I'm not changing others....so I'm out on this part of the conversation.



I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just pointing out one thing that I've noticed about the Star Wars universe; there don't seem to be any annoying reporters following people around.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

MarkB said:


> I'm re-watching Rebels, and the Empire broadcasts news/propaganda constantly. It's mandatory to have it running in public meeting places such as bars.





Ryujin said:


> I'm not disagreeing with that at all. I'm just pointing out one thing that I've noticed about the Star Wars universe; there don't seem to be any annoying reporters following people around.



It's a Rebels plot point that Ezra Bridger's parents where arrested for running a free radio station.

You don't need journalists when you have an emperor to tell you what the news is.

If Palpatine followed the pattern of real world dictators he would have stated to seize control of the free press as soon as he became chancellor, at the end of The Phantom Menace. So positive jedi stories probably stopped being reported long before the purge (unless they involved Papatine's poster boy Anakin Skywalker). And, since there are no TV sets in the jedi temple, they never noticed.


----------



## trappedslider

well, I'm glad what i expected to happen didn't happen. I was expecting the Rancor just to eat Cade.

I was unhappy with the fact that no one punched the mayor's Majordomo (respectfully).

And with that, there's nothing SW or Marvel-related that isn't a making of until the end of march with Moon Knight.


----------



## pukunui

Thoughts:

Finally some action!

It really was just the Pykes. No Crimson Dawn or Qi'ra. (Perhaps they couldn't afford Emilia Clarke.)

I love how Amy Sedaris said what everyone has been thinking (Grogu is a terrible name).

The rancor was cool. So were those droids. Like droidekas on steroids (but without the rolling).

It's a pity they brought back Cad Bane just to kill him off. That said, I like that, despite how stiff and old Cad was looking, he was still faster with his gun, but then surprise! Boba learned a new trick! From those Tuskens that Cad was pooh-poohing too. 

I'm curious to see what becomes of Cobb Vanth. Fennec's cyber-guts are hidden away under her armor. Is Cobb going to be a more obvious cyborg, like the Mods, or a more discrete one like Fennec? And will he go back to being the marshal of Freetown, or will we see him join Din on his adventures in space?

I wasn't expecting them to give us the answer to Grogu's choice yet. I like how he saved his "dad" from a big raging beast once again.

If Boba thinks he and Fennec aren't suited to being rulers, then why did he do all that? Just like Cad, I can't figure out Boba's angle. Is he perhaps going to hand over rulership to roboCobb? 


Grogu has a need for speed!


What was up with the chanting of Boba's name during the end credits? That was kinda cringe.


Overall that was a satisfying end to a bewilderingly up and down series. Can we fast-forward through this year to get to Mando S3 now please?


----------



## trappedslider

pukunui said:


> I wasn't expecting them to give us the answer to Grogu's choice yet. I like how he saved his "dad" from a big raging beast once again.



And he curled up next to the Rancor.."Dad, can we keep it?"


----------



## embee

Finale thoughts:


Terrible. Just terrible.
Robert Rodriguez should not direct Star Wars.
The strongest point, again, was Cad Bane, a longtime baddie, and he didn't deserve the short shrift given.
The weakest point, again, was the Mods. Every shot they were in seemed that much cheaper production-wise.
There's no contrast in this show. Everything is brightly lit. I get that Tatooine is a desert planet with twin suns. But visually, it's flat and uninteresting to look at. This contributes to the overall cheap look of the show. 



Spoiler: RUMOR DEBUNKED



No Han Solo. So I guess that's good.



Boba walking down the street to "Greensleeves." Why?
The show has the production value of a Disney XD show.
Eps 5 & 6 were the high points of this otherwise bad show. Without those two episodes, this show would be utter trash.
Characters who initially had charm were dragged out far too much. The mayor's righthand man was great in the first episode. His schtick was utterly played out by the finale. Not every character needs to be recurring.
Cute easter egg of him being called a "tailhead" - a reference to the first season of Clone Wars
I like Amy Sedaris. But this show had too much Amy Sedaris.
I get that it's for kids. But bloodless battles where people are thrown with great force against buildings or run through with weapons look silly.
Frankly, I hope there's no season 2. I am as disappointed as I was when I walked out after watching Attack of the Clones.


----------



## Bolares

… I thought it was pretty great.


----------



## Ryujin

embee said:


> Finale thoughts:
> 
> 
> Terrible. Just terrible.
> Robert Rodriguez should not direct Star Wars.
> The strongest point, again, was Cad Bane, a longtime baddie, and he didn't deserve the short shrift given.
> The weakest point, again, was the Mods. Every shot they were in seemed that much cheaper production-wise.
> There's no contrast in this show. Everything is brightly lit. I get that Tatooine is a desert planet with twin suns. But visually, it's flat and uninteresting to look at. This contributes to the overall cheap look of the show.
> 
> 
> 
> Spoiler: RUMOR DEBUNKED
> 
> 
> 
> No Han Solo. So I guess that's good.
> 
> 
> 
> Boba walking down the street to "Greensleeves." Why?
> The show has the production value of a Disney XD show.
> Eps 5 & 6 were the high points of this otherwise bad show. Without those two episodes, this show would be utter trash.
> Characters who initially had charm were dragged out far too much. The mayor's righthand man was great in the first episode. His schtick was utterly played out by the finale. Not every character needs to be recurring.
> Cute easter egg of him being called a "tailhead" - a reference to the first season of Clone Wars
> I like Amy Sedaris. But this show had too much Amy Sedaris.
> I get that it's for kids. But bloodless battles where people are thrown with great force against buildings or run through with weapons look silly.
> Frankly, I hope there's no season 2. I am as disappointed as I was when I walked out after watching Attack of the Clones.




Cad Bane arc was predictable though a toss-up whether he'd end by "family", or by Tusken.
I can't disagree about the Mods. They just don't seem to fit the world.
Desert is desert. it's all bright light during the day and cold darkness at night. With two suns the day is longer and the shadows fewer.
Not "Greensleeves." The theme music played in a medieval manner.
Yes, Mayor's lackey's schtick was played out. That's why he was practically made a sacrifice; Boba was tired of him too.

And we got the Grogu bubble, and a mid-credits scene that hints at a JustifFett series. Maybe. Overall I liked it more than the early episodes. It played out in a satisfying way, for me.


----------



## trappedslider

based on the last few comments



Zaukrie said:


> Can we please have new Star Wars content?






trappedslider said:


> We tried that, This had made many people very angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move.



yeah


----------



## embee

trappedslider said:


> based on the last few comments
> 
> 
> 
> 
> yeah



I will never forget the wisest words ever uttered as pertains to Star Wars:



> "Well, I heard my friends really got in a mess
> So I'm gonna have to leave Yoda, I guess
> _*But I know that I'll be coming back someday*_
> *I'll be playing this part till I'm old and grey*
> _*The long-term contract I had to sign*_
> *Says I'll be making these movies till the end of time*
> With my Yoda
> Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda
> Yo-Yo-Yo-Yo-Yoda..."


----------



## trappedslider

We want something new, but not too new. But also make it familiar, but not too familiar.


----------



## embee

MarkB said:


> Vader hunted down and killed the Jedi, and Luke's told that he murdered his father. By biological necessity that had to have happened after Luke was conceived, which means the Jedi were still around until at least shortly before Luke's birth.



Luke is told that by an inveterate liar.

Obi-Wan also said he didn't know Artoo.


----------



## CapnZapp

This was strangely off key. Too many action scenes had moments where things felt like half a second too late. And of course the complete lack of any coherent strategy, from all sides.

If i think about it, the Rancor is the show's best developed character unique to the show. I would not miss it if there is no S2.


----------



## MarkB

embee said:


> Luke is told that by an inveterate liar.
> 
> Obi-Wan also said he didn't know Artoo.



Yeah, but we were talking about someone's perceptions of the timeline based upon when they first saw Episode IV, before we knew those were lies.


----------



## pukunui

Ryujin said:


> And we got the Grogu bubble, and a mid-credits scene that hints at a JustifFett series. Maybe. Overall I liked it more than the early episodes. It played out in a satisfying way, for me.



JustiFett? I like RoboCobb better.


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> JustiFett? I like RoboCobb better.



Cobb Synth?


----------



## Tonguez

I just did a binge watch and give it a c,  the western themes and easter eggs were fun, but it never brought anything cool and the Mandalorian and Skywalker episodes seemed weird. I would have liked to have seen more Tuskens andless Tail-head sycophant. The final battle was okay but without blood or injury a bit dry.
My mind did start plotting it out as an rpg scenario withs its 6 factions and recruitment tracks, so that was useful.
I'd be okay with a sequel featuring RoboCobb


----------



## ART!

The structure of the season is very odd. If you're going to have these massive cameos, maybe spread them out a bit more so they don't seem like aberrations. Maybe tell the story chronologically, so it builds momentum. 

Anyway, the whole thing felt pretty darn Star Wars-y, for the most part, so I'm glad I watched it.


----------



## Shades of Eternity

K now they have Boba setup as Daimyo (not crime lord).

Now let's get a real Season 2 where we can show Boba:



Spoiler




learning he has a sister, and pulling  a family moment that would make vin diesel proud.
talking with Mace as an adult getting closure on that part of his life
bringing the tuskens and the settlers in a mutally beneficial relationship.
oh and training with his buddy Din to get him up to snuff with the darksaber with his new beskar stick.
bringing the waters back to tatoonine, as a trial run before the restoration of Mandalore.
setup the bounty hunter cartel so we can see all Boba's buddies in both alliance and contention (Bossk and BK alone could drive serious stories).

- and a ton of crime syndicate drama as the Crimson Dawn tries to movie in.  As well as at least one episode where a 1 elderly tig fromm shows up and messes everything up.

(fun fact, he needs Cad Bane's hat in his throne room).

what the hell, if I'm in my "want a pony moment.": I want the following.

-if everybody is related to everybody, what the heck. Make the female mod the daughter of those Droid characters that own the White witch, and she just got her inheritance.

Let's get some of Fennec's backstory and why she's so "ride and die" after some of her assassinations come back to haunt her.
Ditto with Black Krrsantan.
I want Peli Motto to trick out Fett's ship while being in some sort of relationship with that Twi'lek Majordomo, whose now Fett's Majordomo.
The Ashoka / Boba misunderstanding fight before they team up against thrawn with all their friends.
just more Danny Trejo...end of story.  We need to see him with a machete trouncing a bad guy at least once.

and great gravy, no more flashbacks.  Rodriguez needs to rewatch Kung Fu, Highlander- the series and Angel and write a report on them before he is allowed to do them again.  Pacing was one of the biggest flaws of the series


----------



## pukunui

trappedslider said:


> And with that, there's nothing SW or Marvel-related that isn't a making of until the end of march with Moon Knight.



Obi-Wan Kenobi now has a start date of May 25:






And yes, it is also set on Tatooine.


----------



## trappedslider

pukunui said:


> Obi-Wan Kenobi now has a start date of May 25:
> 
> 
> And yes, it is also set on Tatooine.



I wondered when it was going to start,and also when I can expect "this doesn't feel like star wars" to start all over again


----------



## Maxperson

Zardnaar said:


> The media we consume is focused in the Jedi but what have we actually seen?
> 
> The Jedi mostly interact with the powerful eg rulers and on the battlefield.
> 
> They're like the SAS how many people even in a warzone actually interact with them?
> 
> So they're famous but real information is very short. There was 10000 around half died in the clone wars.
> 
> Dooku has a quote onscreen of 10000 world's joining  them with your support. That's just one leader of the CIS.
> 
> Off screen there's less than one Jedi for every 10000 world's.
> 
> What is known is mostly myth and legends before the purge.
> 
> After the purge around 200 survive.
> 
> Then you have a totalitarian regimes burying knowledge of them and slandering them.
> 
> Anyone with real knowledge of the jedi keep their mouths shut if they know what's good for them.
> 
> By Rey's time there's virtually none left Luke's academy failed and it's been 50 years since Jedi in any numbers have existed.
> 
> So 200 surviving Jedi 2 million+ world's and they're in decline and in hiding.
> 
> Star Wars millennials know virtually nothing the vast majority of Gen X and older never met one and only know the pop culture stuff and those perceptions still filtered through 20 years of propaganda burying them.
> 
> The clones that served with them serve the empire along with most of the political elite who may have met them.
> 
> That leaves those reasonably few civilians from the clone wars and the occasional random on Coruscant or elsewhere that met one 20+ years ago.
> 
> The Empire didn't bury knowledge of the Jedi existing but onscreen it's shown that pre purge the Jedi weren't universally popular either.
> 
> A lightsaber is recognizable but the person seeing it probably can't tell you much beyond that.



1 jedi could(and did) travel to dozens or even hundreds of worlds helping with various problems, and not just the leaders.  They were protectors, not socialites.  Here on Earth we have 0 Jedi.  Not one.  And yet millions of us know who they are and what they do.  Because stories and movies.  Stories, first hand experiences, and holos would have been circulating the Republic for thousands and thousands of years.  
It's not possible. Like literally impossible, for 20 years to erase that, even with an empire that everyone knows is evil trying to spread propaganda.  Nothing you've said counters those things that I've laid out.


----------



## Maxperson

pukunui said:


> I love how Amy Sedaris said what everyone has been thinking (Grogu is a terrible name).



I laughed out loud.


pukunui said:


> The rancor was cool. So were those droids. Like droidekas on steroids (but without the rolling).



The rancor was great.  The only thing I was scratching my head over is why Fett's people were shooting at it after cheering it for saving them.  That whole scene with Mando, the rancor and Baby Yoda(I refuse to use his name) seemed unnecessary.


pukunui said:


> It's a pity they brought back Cad Bane just to kill him off. That said, I like that, despite how stiff and old Cad was looking, he was still faster with his gun, but then surprise! Boba learned a new trick! From those Tuskens that Cad was pooh-poohing too.



Yeah.  I was hoping he'd live as well.  I also didn't care for the 4 or 5 quick camera switches showing Fett sneering over Bane's body from slightly different angles.  


pukunui said:


> I'm curious to see what becomes of Cobb Vanth. Fennec's cyber-guts are hidden away under her armor. Is Cobb going to be a more obvious cyborg, like the Mods, or a more discrete one like Fennec? And will he go back to being the marshal of Freetown, or will we see him join Din on his adventures in space?



Did they say he was alive.  When Vanth's people show up they say he was gunned down in cold blood, implying he died.


pukunui said:


> If Boba thinks he and Fennec aren't suited to being rulers, then why did he do all that? Just like Cad, I can't figure out Boba's angle. Is he perhaps going to hand over rulership to roboCobb?



They shifted to Krrsantan when they were discussing who to give it to.  I think the wookie ends up in charge.


----------



## Maxperson

embee said:


> Obi-Wan also said he didn't know Artoo.



He said he doesn't remember owning a droid, and he never owned R2.


----------



## Nikosandros

Maxperson said:


> Did they say he was alive.  When Vanth's people show up they say he was gunned down in cold blood, implying he died.



Isn't he in the bacta tank in the post-credits scene?


----------



## Maxperson

Nikosandros said:


> Isn't he in the bacta tank in the post-credits scene?



I didn't see that, so I just went back and looked and that does indeed look like him.


----------



## MarkB

Maxperson said:


> I didn't see that, so I just went back and looked and that does indeed look like him.



I had to rewind that scene when I watched it, because at first glance I didn't recognise him.

Also, talking of unexpected reprieves, honourable mention for the two poor Gamorreans, who unlike the Mods and the wookiee were not lucky enough to get one.


----------



## Maxperson

MarkB said:


> I had to rewind that scene when I watched it, because at first glance I didn't recognise him.
> 
> Also, talking of unexpected reprieves, honourable mention for the two poor Gamorreans, who unlike the Mods and the wookiee were not lucky enough to get one.



Orcs always get the short end of things.


----------



## Ryujin

pukunui said:


> Obi-Wan Kenobi now has a start date of May 25:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, it is also set on Tatooine.



OK, so we've had "Seven Samurai" and "Lone Wolf and Cub." Who is willing to bet this won't be "Yojimbo"?

(_EDIT_ - For the North American audience that would be "The Magnificent Seven", a movie not yet made, and "A Fistfull of Dollars"/"Last Man Standing")


----------



## pukunui

embee said:


> Luke is told that by an inveterate liar.
> 
> Obi-Wan also said he didn't know Artoo.



Well, I don't think Obi-Wan was lying when the original movie came out. It's just that, thanks to the way Lucas wrote the prequels, some of what Obi-Wan says in the original movies makes him come across as a liar. Which is too bad, because I don't think Lucas ever intended him to come across as disingenuous.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

MarkB said:


> Also, talking of unexpected reprieves, honourable mention for the two poor Gamorreans, who unlike the Mods and the wookiee were not lucky enough to get one.




Some of the unnamed Mods did die, but the core four, with the speaking roles, all survived, though there were some wounds. And poor Santo, as the Mods call him now, he really took a lot of abuse in this series. I knew Wookies were tough, but not that tough. As for the Freetown crew, I do not recall seeing a single one of them go down, so I would have to rewatch to make sure. That was the one thing about the fight that threw it off for me. No way about half of them should not have been gunned down. But it was nice to see Fennec show her assassin skills at the end when she eliminated the three gang bosses and the Pyke leadership. Leaving the mayor hanging there, while she coats her blade with the green blood of the head Pyke was a good touch and made up some for the G-rated fighting earlier in the episode.


----------



## pukunui

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Some of the unnamed Mods did die, but the core four, with the speaking roles, all survived, though there were some wounds. And poor Santo, as the Mods call him now, he really took a lot of abuse in this series. I knew Wookies were tough, but not that tough. As for the Freetown crew, I do not recall seeing a single one of them go down, so I would have to rewatch to make sure. That was the one thing about the fight that threw it off for me. No way about half of them should not have been gunned down. But it was nice to see Fennec show her assassin skills at the end when she eliminated the three gang bosses and the Pyke leadership. Leaving the mayor hanging there, while she coats her blade with the green blood of the head Pyke was a good touch and made up some for the G-rated fighting earlier in the episode.



I recall seeing at least one Freetown citizen get gunned down while they were making their stand. Those droids had stormtrooper-level aim while everyone was running away in the open, though, eh? That was pretty ridiculous.

It would have been nice if they'd let Fennec do more in this series. Ming-Na Wen's talent was utterly wasted.

I feel like it really could / should have been longer than 7 episodes so they could have spent more time with the various characters and given the show some more plot. I still don't understand _why_ Boba Fett wanted to take over Jabba's position.


----------



## ART!

If they can't make those speeders look like they're going fast, I'd rather they just leave them out. Does Rodriguez just not know how to film things so they look fast? I don't get what the problem is. I'm sure it's complicated to film and edit it, but it's not like no one's ever figured it out before.


----------



## Tonguez

pukunui said:


> . I still don't understand _why_ Boba Fett wanted to take over Jabba's position.



destiny?

when the Mandalorian Armourer talks about the chosen one she refers to him riding a Mythosaur. Boba Fett rides a Rancor here and claims to have already ridden something 10 times bigger


----------



## Mallus

That was delightful. I take back everything I said previously in my head about Richard Rodriguez phoning it in.

So in seven episodes they meandered their way from Dances With Wolves to The Seven Samurai and King Kong. I’ll allow it.


----------



## pukunui

Tonguez said:


> destiny?



If so, it wasn't communicated very well.



Tonguez said:


> when the Mandalorian Armourer talks about the chosen one she refers to him riding a Mythosaur. Boba Fett rides a Rancor here and claims to have already ridden something 10 times bigger



True. But it feels more like they're setting Din up to be the new leader of Mandalore, not Boba (who doesn't even consider himself to be a Mandalorian really; he's just a simple man trying to make his way in the galaxy).

Do we think we'll see Din riding a mythosaur (perhaps one tamed by Grogu)?


----------



## wicked cool

I liked the characters ( except the bikers)

I give it a 6 1/2 out of 10 for the rancor fight , cad bane and feeling like the fistful of dollars trilogy. 

my big problem is at times I felt like I was watching power rangers. The action was slow and stiff and everyone seemed to be running in slow motion (especially the scene  where Wookie gets tackled). I can’t blame tv as hand to hand fights were better executed in 60’s Star Trek. It felt like Kirk was so much faster
I hope we get more cad bane as we didn’t get enough of him


----------



## billd91

MarkB said:


> Yeah, but we were talking about someone's perceptions of the timeline based upon when they first saw Episode IV, before we knew those were lies.



Before they were made into lies by George Lucas run amok in the prequels.


----------



## MarkB

billd91 said:


> Before they were made into lies by George Lucas run amok in the prequels.



Well, the part about Vader murdering Luke's father only took one movie to become a lie.


----------



## Zardnaar

Fun episode. 









						Scorpenek annihilator droid
					

The Scorpenek annihilator droid was a droid constructed by the Colicoid Creation Nest. In essence a much larger version of the Colicoids' droideka, the annihilator droid was armed with two dual rapid-fire laser cannons cocked back in the menacing form of a rampant scorpion. It could target with...




					starwars.fandom.com
				




 They added these things to the new Canon. CR12 each in the old SWSE. Even caught the name.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

pukunui said:


> Obi-Wan Kenobi now has a start date of May 25:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> And yes, it is also set on Tatooine.



And doesn't that sand look like water...

I think the most important thing that happened in Boba Fett was establish Tatooine's water-world past in the new canon.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Maxperson said:


> Yeah. I was hoping he'd live as well. I also didn't care for the 4 or 5 quick camera switches showing Fett sneering over Bane's body from slightly different angles.



The Boba/Bane showdown really doesn't make a whole lot of sense without the relevant The Clone Wars episodes.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

A couple of other thoughts:

RE the occasionally sluggish action sequences: In yea olden days they could simply of speeded up the frame rate. I wonder if there is something about the digital FX that prevents this?

Major characters in this TV show clearly have lots of hit points. Also see: Reacher.


----------



## Ryujin

Paul Farquhar said:


> A couple of other thoughts:
> 
> RE the occasionally sluggish action sequences: In yea olden days they could simply of speeded up the frame rate. I wonder if there is something about the digital FX that prevents this?
> 
> Major characters in this TV show clearly have lots of hit points. Also see: Reacher.



Old WEG Star Wars. Roll Strength to resist damage. Use a Force Point.


----------



## embee

Maxperson said:


> He said he doesn't remember owning a droid, and he never owned R2.



Yes. And I don't seem to have any recollection of that, Senator, and it all depends on what your definition of "is" is.


----------



## Mezuka

It was all fine. Not excellent but fine. I think the Mods will take over for Fett.

Personally, I feel like the series didn't need the two mando episodes. Mando could have shown up out of blue, with Grogu in a satchel, at the bar saying "maybe I can help with that." That would have been awesome!

The two mando episodes destroyed the tempo and climatic build-up towards the final episode. His new ship and Grogu refusing to train with Luke could have been explained with flashbacks in the next Mando series.

I do wonder how much input a director has on a set of Disney+. I know for many TV shows the director is nothing more than an orchestrator - not an 'author' like Villeneuve. The storyboard and everything else is already decided.


----------



## embee

Mezuka said:


> I do wonder how much input a director has on a set of Disney+. I know for many TV shows the director is nothing more than an orchestrator - not an 'author' like Villeneuve. The storyboard and everything else is already decided.



This episode, along with 3 of the others, was directed by Robert Rodriguez. Arguably, he is an auteur director.

That said, he likely has to work within Filoni's and Favreau's vision and certainly within Disney's parameters. But he likely had a bit of latitude. 

The problem with Rodriguez is that, while he's well known for modern grindhouse with the _Mariachi_ and _Machete_, movies and _From Dusk Till Dawn_, he is equally known for _Spy Kids_ and _Sharkboy & Lava Girl_. 

I think therein lies the dilemma. The first episode drew from Mariachi but everything with the Mods had a Spy Kids feel to it.


----------



## ART!

I pretty much agree with everyone's criticisms - it's been a very odd and uneven series. It feels like something happened during production that forced them to scramble and squeeze stuff in or add content. Maybe it will make some sense in the context of upcoming announcements of new shows/movies?


----------



## Maxperson

Paul Farquhar said:


> The Boba/Bane showdown really doesn't make a whole lot of sense without the relevant The Clone Wars episodes.



Does the Clone Wars explain the quick angle changes? I gathered from their conversation that there was a long history.


----------



## MarkB

Mezuka said:


> It was all fine. Not excellent but fine. I think the Mods will take over for Fett.
> 
> Personally, I feel like the series didn't need the two mando episodes. Mando could have shown up out of blue, with Grogu in a satchel, at the bar saying "maybe I can help with that." That would have been awesome!
> 
> The two mando episodes destroyed the tempo and climatic build-up towards the final episode.



I'd agree with that, if the series up to that point had actually gathered any momentum. As it was, it basically just consisted of Boba showing up, shooting the old crime boss, and then being surprised that he was getting pushback after declaring himself the new boss, and that other parties might be interested in claiming the region for themselves.

That, and throwing a bunch of Tuskans under the bus in the flashbacks.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Maxperson said:


> Does the Clone Wars explain the quick angle changes? I gathered from their conversation that there was a long history.



I didn't notice the angle changes, but it explains the characters' words and feelings.


----------



## Zardnaar

Maxperson said:


> Does the Clone Wars explain the quick angle changes? I gathered from their conversation that there was a long history.




 Clone be Wars is worth a watch. Bit slow season 1 season 3-6 is some of the finest Star Wars ever made.


----------



## Maxperson

Zardnaar said:


> Clean be Wars is worth a watch. Bit slow season 1bseason 3-6 is some of the finest Star Wars ever made.



I've seen some of it.  I like it and go back to it in-between other seasons of shows that I watch.


----------



## Rabulias

A crucial backstory element from _The Clone Wars_ is not _actually _in _TCW_ - the first confrontation between a young Boba Fett and Cad Bane. They did not complete the episodes, but they showed a rough animatic a few years back and you can see it here:


----------



## trappedslider

ugh invested fans are the worse


----------



## Dioltach

The scene with Grogu arriving with R2 in Luke's X-wing felt like the scene in Return of the King where Elrond shows up with Anduril to give to Aragorn.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Paul Farquhar said:


> The Boba/Bane showdown really doesn't make a whole lot of sense without the relevant The Clone Wars episodes.



Honestly I don't think I had any trouble parsing out the relationship from context in the final showdown. Where I think they messed up was that I didn't realize there was a relationship when they faced off the first time earlier in the episode.



Mezuka said:


> Personally, I feel like the series didn't need the two mando episodes. Mando could have shown up out of blue, with Grogu in a satchel, at the bar saying "maybe I can help with that." That would have been awesome!



I mean, those episodes were my favorites in the series up until the finale, so there's that. But I do feel like shoehorning season 2.5 of _the Mandalorian_ into this other series was a weird choice. It was a prime opportunity to simply have Mando on his own, without childcare responsibilities, showing up for an episode or two of one off adventure that didn't develop the plot of his series. Instead they stuck major plot and character developments for the one series into the other. Crossovers are cool, but I think  a series should still be able to stand on its own even if you don't watch every series, especially if they are going to have so many different shows.


----------



## Zardnaar

Looked very familiar.


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Morrus

if he’s going to go back home to get something useful…. maybe bring his heavily armed spaceship next time not a rancor? (And maybe go grab that X-wing too?)


----------



## Tonguez

Benjamin Olson said:


> Honestly I don't think I had any trouble parsing out the relationship from context in the final showdown. Where I think they messed up was that I didn't realize there was a relationship when they faced off the first time earlier in the episode..




yeah, I didn’t watch Clone Wars or Mandolorian but could easily pick that he was the black hat quick draw villain who had some history with both Boba and Jango. However was he a Pyke? He did look like one...


----------



## Staffan

Tonguez said:


> yeah, I didn’t watch Clone Wars or Mandolorian but could easily pick that he was the black hat quick draw villain who had some history with both Boba and Jango. However was he a Pyke? He did look like one...



Nah, he's a Duros.


----------



## MGibster

Cad Bane was one of my favorite villains from The Clone Wars.  He usually seemed to know what the hell he was doing at all times.


----------



## Older Beholder

I enjoyed the series all up. I thought it gave Boba Fett more depth, and highlighted how cool Mando is.

I went back and re-watched the Rodriguez directed episode from The Mandalorian S2 as I remember really enjoying it, and I was in the mood for more Boba Fett action. I'd forgotten it was in that episode that Mando's ship is destroyed, kinda fitting that he gets a new ship during his appearance in Book of Fett.

Even the Mod squad didn't bother me, they reminded me of the out of place sub-cultures that exist in country towns much like the one I grew up in.  I thought they made the world feel more real. I think it also underscores the change in Fett, that he had his Tuskan friends killed by a biker gang, and yet he doesn't immediately judge these kids as he might have pre-sarlacc pit.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

One thing about Cad Bane. We know he survives all the way until 9 ABY, so he will not get killed off in future seasons of The Bad Batch, and who knows what trouble he got into in the almost 30 years between Bad Batch season 1 and his death in BoBF. That could make him a dangerous villain in other shows, since we know he won't just die in them.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

The Lizard Wizard said:


> I went back and re-watched the Rodriguez directed episode from The Mandalorian S2 as I remember really enjoying it, and I was in the mood for more Boba Fett action. I'd forgotten it was in that episode that Mando's ship is destroyed, kinda fitting that he gets a new ship during his appearance in Book of Fett.




Regarding that episode and the slower-seeming combat pace in BoBF, in the Mando episode, Rodriguez filmed at normal speed and then sped the film up a bit to get that faster combat look. I am wondering why he did not do that as well with the BoBf fights.


----------



## Older Beholder

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Regarding that episode and the slower-seeming combat pace in BoBF, in the Mando episode, Rodriguez filmed at normal speed and then sped the film up a bit to get that faster combat look. I am wondering why he did not do that as well with the BoBf fights.




All we can do is speculate, although I think what was mentioned previously in the thread about special effects maybe not working as well could be a factor, as the scenes with Boba smashing up storm troopers in Mando S2 were effects free.

Maybe in the previous series it was used a way to give Boba Fett a more brutal entrance that just wasn't considered as important in Book of Fett, a fear of dulling it's effectiveness if overused?


----------



## Benjamin Olson

The Lizard Wizard said:


> Even the Mod squad didn't bother me, they reminded me of the out of place sub-cultures that exist in country towns much like the one I grew up in. I thought they made the world feel more real.



I agree but I liked them better before I realized they were literally named the "mods". Then the direct borrowings from mod subculture like the mirrors on their vehicles seemed a little a little too on the nose and puny to me. 

But, it should be noted that as an American the mod subculture is only familiar to me because I'm a huge _Quadrophenia_ fan. Most Americans (the audience the creators understand, whatever abstract intentions they have about a worldwide audience) probably don't quite make the connection.


----------



## Benjamin Olson

Morrus said:


> if he’s going to go back home to get something useful…. maybe bring his heavily armed spaceship next time not a rancor? (And maybe go grab that X-wing too?)




Look, adult me may realize it's ridiculous, but if 12 year-old me had been allowed to write a Star Wars TV show, you'd better bet it would have Boba Fett riding a rancor.


----------



## Older Beholder

Benjamin Olson said:


> I agree but I liked them better before I realized they were literally named the "mods". Then the direct borrowings from mod subculture like the mirrors on their vehicles seemed a little a little too on the nose and puny to me.
> 
> But, it should be noted that as an American the mod subculture is only familiar to me because I'm a huge _Quadrophenia_ fan. Most Americans (the audience the creators understand, whatever abstract intentions they have about a worldwide audience) probably don't quite make the connection.




I get that, the whole 'mod' (modifications) vs 'mod' (biker mod squad) reference is more for groans than it is for laughs. But I don't mind lame jokes.

In Australia we know of Mods more from Quadrophenia than reality as well. 
For me it reminds me of things like Goth and heavy metal subcultures in a country town where it was stinking hot. 

I think there's a real push in the TV series so far to blend the visual aesthetics from all 3 trilogies, which I think they're doing a pretty good job.


----------



## Zardnaar

Mods I think of 60's subculture.


----------



## pukunui

Do we really think Cad Bane is dead? That light on his shirt didn’t start blinking until after Boba stabbed him. I think that’s supposed to mean something.

Plus, if Fennec can survive a blaster shot to the gut and Cobb a blaster shot to the shoulder, surely Cad can survive a stab to the chest.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Tonguez said:


> yeah, I didn’t watch Clone Wars or Mandolorian but could easily pick that he was the black hat quick draw villain who had some history with both Boba and Jango. However was he a Pyke? He did look like one...



No he is a mercenary for hire. Generally one who works for the baddest bad guys. As an associate of Jango he takes the juvenile Boba under his wing, but is troubled that Boba seems to have scruples, and tries to cure him of those, playing on his desire for revenge against Mace Windu.


----------



## reelo

It's funny how some people (not here) remarked that since Boba is "middle aged", and Cad Bane is a generation older than him, he should be very old.
But we don't know the life expectancy of Duros. They could well live to be 120 or 200.

Just like Ahsoka, a Togruta. She's at least 15 years older than Luke, yet doesn't look it. Alien species age differently, as we all know.


----------



## Zardnaar

reelo said:


> It's funny how some people (not here) remarked that since Boba is "middle aged", and Cad Bane is a generation older than him, he should be very old.
> But we don't know the life expectancy of Duros. They could well live to be 120 or 200.
> 
> Just like Ahsoka, a Togruta. She's at least 15 years older than Luke, yet doesn't look it. Alien species age differently, as we all know.




 Apparently they live around 70 years and Cad is around 71. 

 Hence Boba calling him old man. 

 Apparently. 

 I watched a YouTube video a few days back

 Born 62 BBY









						Cad Bane
					

Cad Bane was a Duros male bounty hunter and mercenary in the galaxy whose career spanned from the fall of the Galactic Republic, the reign of the Galactic Empire and into the era of the New Republic. After the unceremonious demise of Jango Fett at the First Battle of Geonosis in 22 BBY, Bane was...




					starwars.fandom.com


----------



## trappedslider




----------



## Tonguez

Zardnaar said:


> Mods I think of 60's subculture.



Yep Ray Columbus and the Invaders




Zardnaar said:


> Apparently they live around 70 years and Cad is around 71.
> 
> Hence Boba calling him old man.
> 
> Apparently.
> 
> I watched a YouTube video a few days back
> 
> Born 62 BBY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Cad Bane
> 
> 
> Cad Bane was a Duros male bounty hunter and mercenary in the galaxy whose career spanned from the fall of the Galactic Republic, the reign of the Galactic Empire and into the era of the New Republic. After the unceremonious demise of Jango Fett at the First Battle of Geonosis in 22 BBY, Bane was...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> starwars.fandom.com




Temuera is 62, is Boba suppose to be the same age? I suppose Bane only being 9 years older does make the Old man comment more stinging


----------



## Ryujin

Did anyone else catch Mod Boy doing the signature Rodriguez "El Mariachi" move late in the fight? Not exactly the most efficient fighting style


----------



## pukunui

I did appreciate how they had Cad walking slowly and stiffly, which showed that he was old. He was still fast on the draw, though.


----------



## Paul Farquhar

Tonguez said:


> Temuera is 62, is Boba suppose to be the same age?



No, Boba was born (or decanted) 32 BBY, which makes him 41.

Acid isn't good for the complexion.


----------



## Stalker0

Ryujin said:


> Did anyone else catch Mod Boy doing the signature Rodriguez "El Mariachi" move late in the fight? Not exactly the most efficient fighting style



My roommate and laughed so hard at that, it was so crazily out of place. I would have removed all sins for this show immediately if he had gotten blasted mid spin


----------



## Stalker0

Overall, it was a pretty meh show to me. It wasn't "bad", I didn't hate it, but if it had never been made I wouldn't have missed it. I did enjoy the Rancor vs droid fight at the end. The finale did employ some tactics that would have GOT season 8 blush (we have this invincible droid, I know, lets send our men right next to it so the enemy has something to shoot!), but at the end of the day SW tactics have never made a lick of sense, so I let it slide. 

I feel like the show was stretched, it tried to cover so much and never did any of it that well. If they wanted it to be about Boba's past with the Sand people, fine. If they wanted it to be about his obtaining of crime boss power, fine. If it was meant to be a thinly veiled attempt to be Mandalorian S3 and have Boba and Mando do hijinxs together....fine. But doing it all over a few episodes just made everything feel very thin.

I also think Mando outshines Boba pretty much all the time. Mando is more interesting, Mando is more badass, Mando has more interesting characters he hangs out with, Mando is actually driven to do things as opposed to feeling like his just there "because".

I am actually very curious how Mando S3 will start. Are they going to assume people watched BoBF to be caught up? I guess that's the norm now in the world of connected storytelling.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Stalker0 said:


> I am actually very curious how Mando S3 will start. Are they going to assume people watched BoBF to be caught up? I guess that's the norm now in the world of connected storytelling.




I am sure the standard recap at the start of each episode will show bits from seasons 1 and 2 and from the three episodes of BoBF that included Din and Grogu.


----------



## Ryujin

Stalker0 said:


> My roommate and laughed so hard at that, it was so crazily out of place. I would have removed all sins for this show immediately if he had gotten blasted mid spin



Reminds me of the Skillz That Killz scene in "Dodgeball"


----------



## Tonguez

Stalker0 said:


> Overall, it was a pretty meh show to me. It wasn't "bad", I didn't hate it, but if it had never been made I wouldn't have missed it. I did enjoy the Rancor vs droid fight at the end. The finale did employ some tactics that would have GOT season 8 blush (we have this invincible droid, I know, lets send our men right next to it so the enemy has something to shoot!), but at the end of the day SW tactics have never made a lick of sense, so I let it slide.
> 
> I feel like the show was stretched, it tried to cover so much and never did any of it that well. If they wanted it to be about Boba's past with the Sand people, fine. If they wanted it to be about his obtaining of crime boss power, fine. If it was meant to be a thinly veiled attempt to be Mandalorian S3 and have Boba and Mando do hijinxs together....fine. But doing it all over a few episodes just made everything feel very thin.



thats a really good point and really they coukd have had the stories spread over two (maybe three) seasons and given the stories more depth.

season 1 - Dances with Tuskens, first encounter with Freetown, does the great brown savior shtick with the Train raid as finale

season 2 - follows the Spice back to Mos Espa, do the Man With No Name/Daimyo story


----------



## AtomicPope

Boba Fat was mediocre.  They took Star Wars laconic bounty hunter and turned him into an Amway salesman.  The gangs were corny.  It was the West Side Story: Mos Espa edition.  Riding around on Vespa scooters with a cyber eye and a sidearm, eager to join up the next crime boss.  Seriously, no one in the gang defected to the Pyke Syndicate?  The fight with the shields and stun batons was absurd.  Anyone in Mandalorian armor would have ended that fight instantly using their jetpack and flame thrower.  I do like what they did with the shields and the giant battle droids.  Although, they found a way to make it tedious.  Don't even get my started on the final fight with Cad Bane.

One thing that really annoyed me was the relationship between Shand and Fett.  There was no indication that either of them had a particular style or way of doing things.  Normally when experts are confronted with a problem their expertise comes into play.  When there's two experts then it's a matter of style or approach, and that can be a point of contention.  We got none of that.  In fact, they got along too well.

The best part of the show was when we stopped caring about Boba's book and got back to the Mandalorian.


----------



## Zardnaar

Well they had 3 or 4 stories going on over 7 episodes. 

 And they screwed up Cad Banes implementation.


----------



## BrokenTwin

Finished the show. Final episode was good. Well, the tactics were garbage and the setup even more unbelievable than Star Wars normally is, but there were some fun visuals and the main character finally got to look cool in his own show, so I'll give it a pass.


----------



## Zardnaar

BrokenTwin said:


> Finished the show. Final episode was good. Well, the tactics were garbage and the setup even more unbelievable than Star Wars normally is, but there were some fun visuals and the main character finally got to look cool in his own show, so I'll give it a pass.




 Yeah that's my take on it. 

 Overall I liked the season but it's no Mandalorian.


----------



## Zardnaar

Anyone want me to "5E" these. 









						Boba Fett
					

Affiliations: The Mandalorians, The Fringe The most feared bounty hunter of his time, Boba Fett racks up an unheard-of number of successful bounties that earns him a reputation as a force to be reckoned with. His name fills outlaws and criminals with dread. Boba Fett seems bereft of conscience...




					swse.fandom.com
				




Level 15: Scout 3, Soldier 5, Bounty Hunter 5, Elite Trooper 2.


----------



## MarkB

Zardnaar said:


> Yeah that's my take on it.
> 
> Overall I liked the season but it's no Mandalorian.



I just wish I knew why.

I mean, I know _how_ it didn't measure up, pretty much the same issues everyone else has pointed out - but it's from the same general creative team as The Mandalorian, they have a generally good track record, and episodes 5 and 6 show that they're still capable of delivering that quality. So why did they drop the ball in the rest of the season?


----------



## Zardnaar

MarkB said:


> I just wish I knew why.
> 
> I mean, I know _how_ it didn't measure up, pretty much the same issues everyone else has pointed out - but it's from the same general creative team as The Mandalorian, they have a generally good track record, and episodes 5 and 6 show that they're still capable of delivering that quality. So why did they drop the ball in the rest of the season?




 Basic storyline problems and no focus/pacing issues.


 I agree with a lot of things here. 

 Would argue they didn't have a clear vision for the character/show. Is he a bounty hunter, crime lord, hero etc? 
 Pacing as well (face turn with Tuskans, Cad intro and death in two episodes).

 They turned him face and rushed it.


----------



## BrokenTwin

If they had just stuck to one or two plot threads almost any combination of the ones they had would have worked, but it was just all over the place in such a short episode count.


----------



## trappedslider

once again i was proven right lol they tried something new and it made people unhappy lol


----------



## Zardnaar

trappedslider said:


> once again i was proven right lol they tried something new and it made people unhappy lol




 It's a fine line to walk between something new in an existing franchise. 

 They could have had Fett being a badass and blowing crap up for 7 episodes probably would have gone well. 

 They went a bit overboard on fan service. Mandalorian got that right.

 Good Star Wars/storytelling kinda needs that emotional response see New Hope/ESB. Wasnt a disaster though unrealistic expectations perhaps or those expectations not met.


----------



## Maxperson

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Regarding that episode and the slower-seeming combat pace in BoBF, in the Mando episode, Rodriguez filmed at normal speed and then sped the film up a bit to get that faster combat look. I am wondering why he did not do that as well with the BoBf fights.



Maybe he was having trouble with the attack droids who were simultaneously too slow to catch slowly running people and fast enough to catch a cart being pulled by a speeding droid.


----------



## trappedslider

Zardnaar said:


> It's a fine line to walk between something new in an existing franchise.
> 
> They could have had Fett being a badass and blowing crap up for 7 episodes probably would have gone well.
> 
> They went a bit overboard on fan service. Mandalorian got that right.
> 
> Good Star Wars/storytelling kinda needs that emotional response see New Hope/ESB. Wasnt a disaster though unrealistic expectations perhaps or those expectations not met.



I think for some it was unrealistic expectations, among those of my friends who don't consume any other SW beyond the live-action shows and the movies, they all said the book of Bobba Fett was good and they enjoyed it. One, in particular, loved the mod squad.


----------



## pukunui

trappedslider said:


> I think for some it was unrealistic expectations, among those of my friends who don't consume any other SW beyond the live-action shows and the movies, they all said the book of Bobba Fett was good and they enjoyed it. One, in particular, loved the mod squad.



Yeah there are tons of people on Twitter praising the show in replies to one of Ming-Na Wen’s posts about it.


----------



## Stalker0

Zardnaar said:


> Anyone want me to "5E" these.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Boba Fett
> 
> 
> Affiliations: The Mandalorians, The Fringe The most feared bounty hunter of his time, Boba Fett racks up an unheard-of number of successful bounties that earns him a reputation as a force to be reckoned with. His name fills outlaws and criminals with dread. Boba Fett seems bereft of conscience...
> 
> 
> 
> 
> swse.fandom.com
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Level 15: Scout 3, Soldier 5, Bounty Hunter 5, Elite Trooper 2.



I could see a Rogue 2 / Fighter 9 kind of thing (you could make the case for the ranger but the pesky spells and nature bent gets in the way, I think a few rogue levels cover some core skill competencies), with basically +3 adamantine half plate armor (feat: heavy armor mastery) and an item of flight (aka jet pack). I could see him with sharpshooter and crossbow expert feats, and archery as his weapon style, which handles his skill with the blaster. Throw in an item that can cast burning hands a few times a day for that sweet flame thrower action.

 I would reserve levels 15-20 for top Jedi, and though Fett was strong he was not the best fighter by BoBF, he's gotten a bit old and lost a few steps. I think level 10 or 11 is a pretty good bar for that.


----------



## Stalker0

trappedslider said:


> once again i was proven right lol they tried something new and it made people unhappy lol



The Mandalorian was new and it was extremely well received. Because it was...you know....good.

People aren't unhappy with new, they are unhappy with new that's bad.


----------



## Zardnaar

Stalker0 said:


> I could see a Rogue 2 / Fighter 9 kind of thing (you could make the case for the ranger but the pesky spells and nature bent gets in the way, I think a few rogue levels cover some core skill competencies), with basically +3 adamantine half plate armor (feat: heavy armor mastery) and an item of flight (aka jet pack). I could see him with sharpshooter and crossbow expert feats, and archery as his weapon style, which handles his skill with the blaster. Throw in an item that can cast burning hands a few times a day for that sweet flame thrower action.
> 
> I would reserve levels 15-20 for top Jedi, and though Fett was strong he was not the best fighter by BoBF, he's gotten a bit old and lost a few steps. I think level 10 or 11 is a pretty good bar for that.




 I would use the swse but can 5Eise the skills, feats, talents and rules exist for beskar.


----------



## Zardnaar

Stalker0 said:


> The Mandalorian was new and it was extremely well received. Because it was...you know....good.
> 
> People aren't unhappy with new, they are unhappy with new that's bad.




 Mandalorian raised the bar. BiBF wasn't a disaster imho but underwhelming perhaps. It's best episodes were essentially the Mandalorian ones. 

 Might binge it see if it's better that way.


----------



## Morrus

trappedslider said:


> once again i was proven right lol they tried something new and it made people unhappy lol



There was nothing new about this show.


----------



## Shades of Eternity

The thing is, it feels like there were bitter fights behind this show.

Rodriguez has done the El Mariachi trilogy and Machete, but when he wanted to do something similar for the BOBF he was told "hell no" so he reverted to Spy Kids.
Favreau and Filoni want to sidestep the sequel trilogy, but Kathleen Kennedy stuck her nose in to ensure it is there.
The C.E.O. of Disney is known as a cheapskate and is demanding they keep giving safe products.

then you throw in the pandemic and the hemorrhaging of money of Disney that caused them to stab Scarlett Johansen in the back.

I wouldn't be surprised if Temura and Ming, despite their professionalism, are probably fed up with the push/pull of the shoot.

Still, even if there isn't another minute of Book of Boba Fett, I want Boba and Fennic to keep being involved in the star wars series in what is most likely the retaking of Mandalore.

and I want the first order to be doing a hard NOPE! after the mother of all curb stomps which is why they don't appear in the sequals. ]

edit: and next season, I want Fett's Vette.


----------



## pukunui

@Shades of Eternity Ming-Na is talking about how she’d like to do another season of Boba Fett on her Twitter.

EDIT:


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> @Shades of Eternity Ming-Na is talking about how she’d like to do another season of Boba Fett on her Twitter.




 Her character rocked. The mayors fate was more brutal than I would expect on a Disney show. 

 Everyone kinda overshadowed Fett though except maybe the mods.


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> Her character rocked. The mayors fate was more brutal than I would expect on a Disney show.
> 
> Everyone kinda overshadowed Fett though except maybe the mods.



Ming-Na is fabulous as Fennec. I feel like her character was mostly wasted on this show, though. She could have done so much more cool stuff but mostly she just stood by Boba’s side and advised him.


----------



## Aeson

And rarely took the advice.


----------



## Zardnaar

pukunui said:


> Ming-Na is fabulous as Fennec. I feel like her character was mostly wasted on this show, though. She could have done so much more cool stuff but mostly she just stood by Boba’s side and advised him.




 That's kinda fine if she's like a mafia type adviser. 

 Basic idea of a nice crinelird might be flawed or at least without a longer buildbup for the face turn.


----------



## pukunui

Zardnaar said:


> That's kinda fine if she's like a mafia type adviser.
> 
> Basic idea of a nice crinelird might be flawed or at least without a longer buildbup for the face turn.



The weirdest bit was how they went from "I owe Boba my life" in Mando S2 to "I've paid off my life debt by helping you reclaim your ship so now I'll just hang around for the ride" in this show. So now Fennec doesn't really have any reason for sticking with Boba and becoming his #2 ... other than that maybe she likes him?


----------



## MarkB

pukunui said:


> The weirdest bit was how they went from "I owe Boba my life" in Mando S2 to "I've paid off my life debt by helping you reclaim your ship so now I'll just hang around for the ride" in this show. So now Fennec doesn't really have any reason for sticking with Boba and becoming his #2 ... other than that maybe she likes him?



People having well-articulated reasons for what they are doing is not one of this show's strong points.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

pukunui said:


> So now Fennec doesn't really have any reason for sticking with Boba and becoming his #2 ... other than that maybe she likes him?




She failed her last job, so maybe can't get any other work right now?


----------



## Ryujin

They were too far away from a tavern for the usual "getting the party together" scene.


----------



## pukunui

MarkB said:


> People having well-articulated reasons for what they are doing is not one of this show's strong points.



Indeed.



Enevhar Aldarion said:


> She failed her last job, so maybe can't get any other work right now?



The issue for me is that her telling Mando that she’s helping Boba because she owes him her life technically takes place _after_ the bit in the Boba Fett show where she tells him they’re square but will go along for the ride.

It ends up feeling like a weird little retcon.


----------



## Ryujin

pukunui said:


> Indeed.
> 
> 
> The issue for me is that her telling Mando that she’s helping Boba because she owes him her life technically takes place _after_ the bit in the Boba Fett show where she tells him they’re square but will go along for the ride.
> 
> It ends up feeling like a weird little retcon.



Or she doesn't want him to know that she feels that way, for fear that he'd take advantage?


----------



## Older Beholder

pukunui said:


> Indeed.
> 
> 
> The issue for me is that her telling Mando that she’s helping Boba because she owes him her life technically takes place _after_ the bit in the Boba Fett show where she tells him they’re square but will go along for the ride.
> 
> It ends up feeling like a weird little retcon.




Just because he considered the debt repaid doesn’t mean she felt the same way. Even with the debt repaid, she’s still there because he saved her life.


----------



## Zaukrie

Morrus said:


> There was nothing new about this show.



Right? Give us new characters. There is an entire galaxy.


----------



## pukunui

The Lizard Wizard said:


> Just because he considered the debt repaid doesn’t mean she felt the same way. Even with the debt repaid, she’s still there because he saved her life.



When Boba first asks her to help him recover his ship, she says, "If I help you, my debt is paid."

After they recover the ship, Boba tells her that her debt has been repaid and asks where he can drop her off. She says she'll go along for the ride.

Then chronologically later on, when they meet up with Mando on Tython, she tells him she's with Boba because she owes him a life debt. 

Sure, maybe she decided that just helping Boba recover _Slave 1 _wasn't good enough.


As an aside, rewatching bits of episode 4, I think I've figured out what Boba's angle is: after they kill the sarlacc and are sitting by a campfire, they share this conversation:

Fennec: "Are you serious about forming your own house?"

Boba: "How many times have you been hired to do a job that was avoidable? If they only took the time to think, how much money could have been made? How many lives could have been saved?"

Fennec: "Then you and I would be out of work."

Boba: "I'm tired of our kind dying because of the idiocy of others. We're smarter than them. It's time we took our shot."


I think the idea is that he's annoyed that working for Jabba nearly got him killed, and he doesn't want to work for anyone else anymore. He wants to be his own man, working for himself, choosing his own jobs ... a simple man making his way through the galaxy. 

I'm guessing he chose to take over Jabba's territory because it was convenient. Bib Fortuna was easy to get rid of. Tatooine is familiar territory for Boba. Maybe, once he's gotten himself established, he intends to make things better for other Tusken tribes.


One thing they didn't address in the show is why he tells Fennec that Bib Fortuna betrayed him. What was that about?


----------



## Lidgar

pukunui said:


> Ming-Na is fabulous as Fennec. I feel like her character was mostly wasted on this show, though. She could have done so much more cool stuff but mostly she just stood by Boba’s side and advised him.



Agreed. Towards the end she was primarily used as a tool to advance narrative. It was really heavy handed. It got to the point when she spoke we would think “ok, here comes the third person summary”. Shame.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Lidgar said:


> Agreed. Towards the end she was primarily used as a tool to advance narrative. It was really heavy handed. It got to the point when she spoke we would think “ok, here comes the third person summary”. Shame.




Never even noticed. I thought everything was fine and it was a fun show that maybe overdid the cheese and fan service a bit. After all, this is Star Wars, not some over-serious drivel like The Godfather.


----------



## trappedslider

Morrus said:


> There was nothing new about this show.






Zaukrie said:


> Right? Give us new characters. There is an entire galaxy.



which show has had the mods biker gang before this one?

EDIT: The parts that were new to this show (the mods in particular) weren't well recived.


----------



## Maxperson

trappedslider said:


> which show has had the mods biker gang before this one?
> 
> EDIT: The parts that were new to this show (the mods in particular) weren't well recived.



Speeders, riders and speeder chases are nothing new.  A good one happened on Endor.  Coloring the speeder bikes and giving them lots of mirrors doesn't really count to make it new.  Bad? Yes. New? No.


----------



## trappedslider

Maxperson said:


> Speeders, riders and speeder chases are nothing new.  A good one happened on Endor.  Coloring the speeder bikes and giving them lots of mirrors doesn't really count to make it new.  Bad? Yes. New? No.



it's a new spin on something old for star wars is that better?


----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> which show has had the mods biker gang before this one?



Mods are nothing new to British viewers.


----------



## Staffan

Maxperson said:


> Speeders, riders and speeder chases are nothing new.  A good one happened on Endor.  Coloring the speeder bikes and giving them lots of mirrors doesn't really count to make it new.  Bad? Yes. New? No.



The mods were a cool concept, but the slow chase through Mos Espa kind of robbed them of their coolness.

Basically, pretty much all the show that wasn't either Dances with Bantha or Mandalorian season 2.5 felt phoned in.


----------



## Janx

That was prolly one of the best episodes of the 5 actual Boba series.

I still think handing over 2 full episodes to not-Boba chars was a bad idea.  Would've been different if it was Fennec or the Gamorean Guards getting some back story or day in the life story.

I also feel bad for the Gamorean Guards.  They fought so hard, only to get shoved off a cliff.

Overall, it seems like the problem could have been solved by Fennec taking a trip sooner to the Pike's office where Boba'd already been before.

Problems:
why does it take so long for them to get somebody on the rooftop?

Why do they all arrive to help, only to group up in the same basic spot outside the Sanctuary?

Why didn't they start shooting the moment the droids stepped a foot our from around the corner? The shields didn't come up until they positioned themselves.

Why didn't they shoot once the shield went down to help Boba and his pet?

Did anybody notice the tip of Boba's staff bent when he pulled it out of Bane, but the next camera cut was straight?

How did Krrrsantan and the 2 power Modders get back with the group when they fell behind to shoot the droid and it passed them?


----------



## Stalker0

trappedslider said:


> which show has had the mods biker gang before this one?
> 
> EDIT: The parts that were new to this show (the mods in particular) weren't well recived.



I feel like the mods weren’t actually characters, they were just moving set pieces. I learned more about Amy Sederikis mechanic in her 5 min convo with Mando than I learned about all of the mods combined in the whole show.


----------



## BrokenTwin

The mods would have been a fun idea, if they weren't diluting an already incredibly diluted story. And didn't look like they wandered in from a completely different show in every scene they were in. And weren't so obviously merchandise bait / kid appeal characters with zero actual charactization beyond "teenagers with attitude".


----------



## Tonguez

Staffan said:


> The mods were a cool concept, but the slow chase through Mos Espa kind of robbed them of their coolness.
> 
> Basically, pretty much all the show that wasn't either Dances with Bantha or Mandalorian season 2.5 felt phoned in.



The mods did seem a bit out of place though, they are a cyberpunk concept that might have been fine on Coruscant or similar urban planet but were just a bit too much for Tatooines desert towns.
and yeah the slow chase robbed them of any cool they might have earned by better stunts and fx


----------



## Morrus

trappedslider said:


> which show has had the mods biker gang before this one?
> 
> EDIT: The parts that were new to this show (the mods in particular) weren't well recived.



Mods and biker gangs aren’t new. Real life had mods and biker gangs 70 years ago. They might be new to you, but they aren’t new.


----------



## trappedslider

Morrus said:


> Mods and biker gangs aren’t new. Real life had mods and biker gangs 70 years ago. They might be new to you, but they aren’t new.



New to star wars. 

If you really wish to be pedantic then nothing is really new, it's all just recycled or a different spin on the old.


----------



## BrokenTwin

I mean, I think wanting "new" as a general concept is a silly demand, since everything is based off of something else, and can usually be boiled down to a base concept that's old as dirt. The mods gang is new to the setting of Star Wars, but they feel shallow, poorly thought out, and not an organic part of the world they live in.

But then, maybe if we had more time to get to know literally any of them, it wouldn't have been a problem.

I still stand by the biggest issue with this series is that we have no idea why any of the characters want what they want. Which is likely due to the show only having five episodes to tell its story.


----------



## Ryujin

The Mods stood out like a Goth in an Arizona summer.


----------



## trappedslider

BrokenTwin said:


> The mods gang is new to the setting of Star Wars



This has been my point, they tried something new for the setting, and for many, it didn't work.


----------



## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> This has been my point, they tried something new for the setting, and for many, it didn't work.



But the point you seem to be trying to convey is that it must be its newness that made people dislike it, and that therefore those asking for something new are being hypocritical.

Which excludes the possibility that it was disliked due to flaws unrelated to whether it was new or not.


----------



## Morrus

trappedslider said:


> New to star wars.



Well now you’re just moving the goalposts.


----------



## trappedslider

MarkB said:


> But the point you seem to be trying to convey is that it must be its newness that made people dislike it, and that therefore those asking for something new are being hypocritical.
> 
> Which excludes the possibility that it was disliked due to flaws unrelated to whether it was new or not.



I deleted the "for any number of reasons it didn't work for many" which in retrospect  I should have kept. While for others it worked just fine.


----------



## Khelon Testudo

Morrus said:


> if he’s going to go back home to get something useful…. maybe bring his heavily armed spaceship next time not a rancor? (And maybe go grab that X-wing too?)



No matter the damage the rancor caused, it would have been nothing compared to the collateral damage from ships weapons.


----------



## Argyle King

I don't know how exactly I feel regarding on the final episode.

I feel as though there were a lot of cool individual parts, but they were tossed together sloppily. 

The entire plan for how to fight the Syndicate was almost laughably bad. It's a bit jarring to watch a show in which Boba and Fennec are often incompetent at basic military tactics.


----------



## Ryujin

Argyle King said:


> I don't know how exactly I feel regarding on the final episode.
> 
> I feel as though there were a lot of cool individual parts, but they were tossed together sloppily.
> 
> The entire plan for how to fight the Syndicate was almost laughably bad. It's a bit jarring to watch a show in which Boba and Fennec are often incompetent at basic military tactics.



Well they aren't military people. They're a bounty hunter and an assassin, who are used to working alone or in a small group.


----------



## MarkB

Argyle King said:


> I don't know how exactly I feel regarding on the final episode.
> 
> I feel as though there were a lot of cool individual parts, but they were tossed together sloppily.
> 
> The entire plan for how to fight the Syndicate was almost laughably bad. It's a bit jarring to watch a show in which Boba and Fennec are often incompetent at basic military tactics.



The bit that got me was the Mods insisting that they stay in the town rather than holing up in their fortress - which basically guaranteed that Mos Espa was going to get thoroughly wrecked.


----------



## Janx

How was Spice ruining the planet or lives anyway?

Why did they have to bring it to the planet surface?

They never really explained that, other than saying it was bad.

What the heck is Spice besides a rip-off from Dune?


----------



## MarkB

Janx said:


> How was Spice ruining the planet or lives anyway?
> 
> Why did they have to bring it to the planet surface?
> 
> They never really explained that, other than saying it was bad.
> 
> What the heck is Spice besides a rip-off from Dune?



It's what's mined in the spice mines of Kessell. Beyond that, I'm not sure there are any details that aren't Legends by now.

In Legends it was consistently portrayed as a narcotic, but I seem to recall some sources suggesting that it provided temporary Force sensitivity.


----------



## Ryujin

Janx said:


> How was Spice ruining the planet or lives anyway?
> 
> Why did they have to bring it to the planet surface?
> 
> They never really explained that, other than saying it was bad.
> 
> What the heck is Spice besides a rip-off from Dune?



No idea about the "Legends" stuff, but the implication has always been that Spice is an illegal drug. And drugs are bad, m'kay? You don't bring drugs to a populated planet and then _not_ sell them to the populace, which means taking them to the surface. Also, since the spaceport(s) are planetside, you need to get them down for distribution.


----------



## BrokenTwin

Yeah, that's another thing I never really got. Tatooine doesn't exactly have a dense population, and the spice isn't being mined on the planet (presumably), so why is it such a big deal for them that they NEED the spice to be transported planet-side? Why were they transporting it through Tusken territory anyway? Certainly they'd just be setting down in the biggest star-port, selling the spice to the local dealers to distribute, then heading back up? Hell, what product or services are all of these local gangs supplying/pushing, anyway? If you're a crime lord and all you do is control and administer your local area, then you're just the local authorities.


----------



## MarkB

BrokenTwin said:


> Yeah, that's another thing I never really got. Tatooine doesn't exactly have a dense population, and the spice isn't being mined on the planet (presumably), so why is it such a big deal for them that they NEED the spice to be transported planet-side? Why were they transporting it through Tusken territory anyway? Certainly they'd just be setting down in the biggest star-port, selling the spice to the local dealers to distribute, then heading back up? Hell, what product or services are all of these local gangs supplying/pushing, anyway? If you're a crime lord and all you do is control and administer your local area, then you're just the local authorities.



Well, it seems that different settlements on the planet are controlled by different crime lords, so if those gangs are trading Spice between each other it would make some sense to transport it between locations, especially if some groups stockpile it for later distribution.


----------



## Janx

BrokenTwin said:


> Yeah, that's another thing I never really got. Tatooine doesn't exactly have a dense population, and the spice isn't being mined on the planet (presumably), so why is it such a big deal for them that they NEED the spice to be transported planet-side? Why were they transporting it through Tusken territory anyway? Certainly they'd just be setting down in the biggest star-port, selling the spice to the local dealers to distribute, then heading back up? Hell, what product or services are all of these local gangs supplying/pushing, anyway? If you're a crime lord and all you do is control and administer your local area, then you're just the local authorities.



yeah, the whole thing seems dumb or flawed.  If we were playing D&D (or starwars) as spice people, we'd land our ships from space where we needed the stuff delivered. It's no less or more obtrusive than weird trains and caravans taking the stuff overland.  And if it's just a waypoint before another planet, let's meet in space and exchange there.

They don't actually show that Spice is bad.  There's no empathetic character who's struggling because of their habit.  Doesn't this stuff make jobs for people moving it?

The thing they SHOULD be fighting for, hardly isn't.  Protection money and income from crime territory.  the Pikes should be moving in to take over the Hutt's turf, and THAT's what Boba's defending.  But instead, it's Spice specifically, which is dumbly presented.


----------



## BrokenTwin

If they made it a flat out turf war instead of Fett protecting people from whatever spice does, then they'd need to show why the Pikes want to control the area. Tatooine doesn't seem to produce any good or service that's not easier to obtain elsewhere, and doesn't have the population to be worth controlling the market of. There's zero valid reason for the Pikes to not just make an arrangement with the local rulers for distribution of their product.

If we fudged things and said Mos Eisley was the only settlement on the planet with an industrial star port, and Fett refused to allow the Pikes to transport their goods (spice) through the port anymore, than it would make a lot more sense that they'd work with the other local rulers to overthrow him and restore business as usual.

And the more I think about it, the more I don't think calling them crime lords is accurate. It's essentially a fiefdom, they ARE the ruling authorities in the area. Smaller places pay tribute (taxes), and the New Republic doesn't appear to actually exert any control planet-side, or beef with the people who do control the planet.


----------



## Argyle King

Ryujin said:


> Well they aren't military people. They're a bounty hunter and an assassin, who are used to working alone or in a small group.




I suppose so.  Maybe I'm wrong for thinking this way, but I would think that doing either of those careers as a long term profession would lead to learning a few things. I don't expect Hannibal crossing the Alps. 

Though, I do expect some grasp of basic ideas. I feel as though Boba would come up with an idea. Then Fennec would offer a way to "improve" the idea which actually made it worse. 

In Fennec's case, I would think that being an assassin would offer some insight into how to fight as a smaller group (or individual) against a more numerous target. The show itself even shows that she's skilled in doing so during her flashback episode.

I'm curious if combat choreography is a thing. I know fist fights and such are choreographed, but do movies/shows ever consult someone to lay out bigger scale conflicts? 

Side note: I would have rather the Mods been pushed off the cliff than the green guys.


----------



## BrokenTwin

If the Mods had their own goals in the show, I think their integration would have worked a lot better. Hell, if the Mods were already fighting the Pikes over the spice ("Your drugs are ruining our homes and families!"), then they'd have a legitimate reason for joining Fett, Fett would have a much more valid reason for bringing them into the fold, and it would have given both the battle as a whole (people's lives being actively ruined by spice) and the mods in particular better grounding in the story.


----------



## MarkB

BrokenTwin said:


> And the more I think about it, the more I don't think calling them crime lords is accurate. It's essentially a fiefdom, they ARE the ruling authorities in the area. Smaller places pay tribute (taxes), and the New Republic doesn't appear to actually exert any control planet-side, or beef with the people who do control the planet.



Traditionally Tattooine has been independent of the Republic, but they're called crime lords because they control crime syndicates that do operate within Republic / Empire territory.

Though oddly enough, the New Republic does seem to hold some sway there now, given how much Peli Motto was panicking about permits when Luke's X-Wing was landing.


----------



## Ryujin

MarkB said:


> Traditionally Tattooine has been independent of the Republic, but they're called crime lords because they control crime syndicates that do operate within Republic / Empire territory.
> 
> Though oddly enough, the New Republic does seem to hold some sway there now, given how much Peli Motto was panicking about permits when Luke's X-Wing was landing.



Which is also why the Spice trade couldn't take place in orbit; patrols. Maybe off in some secluded corner of space but I get the impression that sort of precision navigation, without a gravity well, isn't really a thing in the Star Wars universe.


----------



## Shades of Eternity

and this is why Peli Motto needs to suck up to the local Daimyo whose best friends with a good friend. 

I so want Boba to go "Permits, we don't need no stinking permits."


----------



## Ryujin

Argyle King said:


> I suppose so.  Maybe I'm wrong for thinking this way, but I would think that doing either of those careers as a long term profession would lead to learning a few things. I don't expect Hannibal crossing the Alps.
> 
> Though, I do expect some grasp of basic ideas. I feel as though Boba would come up with an idea. Then Fennec would offer a way to "improve" the idea which actually made it worse.
> 
> In Fennec's case, I would think that being an assassin would offer some insight into how to fight as a smaller group (or individual) against a more numerous target. The show itself even shows that she's skilled in doing so during her flashback episode.
> 
> I'm curious if combat choreography is a thing. I know fist fights and such are choreographed, but do movies/shows ever consult someone to lay out bigger scale conflicts?
> 
> Side note: I would have rather the Mods been pushed off the cliff than the green guys.



Have you ever watched the background characters in most movies/TV shows during a major battle. Some of it is rather comical


----------



## Shades of Eternity

The Book of Boba Fett is a disturbingly accurate portrayal of what happens when your high-level fighter gets his stronghold.


----------



## Janx

Shades of Eternity said:


> The Book of Boba Fett is a disturbingly accurate portrayal of what happens when your high-level fighter gets his stronghold.



you may have hit it on the head. Boba's got no darn clue. 

I wanna be king. of crime. But I didn't actually watch any crime movies or think it through. Nor did the GM.


----------



## Janx

Ryujin said:


> Which is also why the Spice trade couldn't take place in orbit; patrols. Maybe off in some secluded corner of space but I get the impression that sort of precision navigation, without a gravity well, isn't really a thing in the Star Wars universe.



are there no gas giants in this system? Space is big. Plenty of balls in the sky.


----------



## Janx

BrokenTwin said:


> If the Mods had their own goals in the show, I think their integration would have worked a lot better. Hell, if the Mods were already fighting the Pikes over the spice ("Your drugs are ruining our homes and families!"), then they'd have a legitimate reason for joining Fett, Fett would have a much more valid reason for bringing them into the fold, and it would have given both the battle as a whole (people's lives being actively ruined by spice) and the mods in particular better grounding in the story.



they kinda did that when Boba met them, but it was like one scene with a water monger and Boba hired them.  Since then, they were happy to do his bidding.

Maybe the writers thought that was enough.


----------



## Staffan

MarkB said:


> Traditionally Tattooine has been independent of the Republic, but they're called crime lords because they control crime syndicates that do operate within Republic / Empire territory.
> 
> Though oddly enough, the New Republic does seem to hold some sway there now, given how much Peli Motto was panicking about permits when Luke's X-Wing was landing.



Tattooine was clearly part of the Empire back in A New Hope, although they seemed content to let the Hutts do their thing. So I guess that when the Empire fell, the New Republic found itself with some territories that weren't part of the Old Republic.


----------



## Ryujin

Janx said:


> you may have hit it on the head. Boba's got no darn clue.
> 
> I wanna be king. of crime. But I didn't actually watch any crime movies or think it through. Nor did the GM.


----------



## Ryujin

Janx said:


> are there no gas giants in this system? Space is big. Plenty of balls in the sky.



Big hole in their space-faring technology; no one ever invented the airlock.


----------



## Argyle King

Ryujin said:


> Have you ever watched the background characters in most movies/TV shows during a major battle. Some of it is rather comical




Yeah. I expect that from background characters. I'm also okay with tropes and genre conventions and needing to look cool for the screen. 

To me, it wasn't background characters in this case. It was a main character with a lifetime of combat experience. Even with giving some leeway for genre and such, a lot of it seemed heavily contrived. (I suspect, if this were a rpg campaign, the DM would have been heavily railroading the group into specific encounters.) 

There were a lot of cool ideas. How they were put together was a bit suspect though. 

I think, for me, what makes it stand out is that there are/were times when the show was brilliant. So it highlights when things are a bit shoddy.

If this helps, I look at it kinda like a pro-wrestling match. Yes, it is fantasy. Yes, there are things (like the Irish Whip) which make no sense but are accepted as part of the genre. But there's still an underlying psychology to how/why things are done are particular way. 

When it's done well, I can get sucked in enough to not thing twice about Undertaker being a zombie or Steve Austin being coherent enough to wrestle after drinking 36 beers. When it's done poorly, I might think "wtf?" over something as simple as a wonky-looking wristlock.


----------



## trappedslider

If you really break it down, the whole thing kind of just sucks.


----------



## Ryujin

Argyle King said:


> Yeah. I expect that from background characters. I'm also okay with tropes and genre conventions and needing to look cool for the screen.
> 
> To me, it wasn't background characters in this case. It was a main character with a lifetime of combat experience. Even with giving some leeway for genre and such, a lot of it seemed heavily contrived. (I suspect, if this were a rpg campaign, the DM would have been heavily railroading the group into specific encounters.)
> 
> There were a lot of cool ideas. How they were put together was a bit suspect though.
> 
> I think, for me, what makes it stand out is that there are/were times when the show was brilliant. So it highlights when things are a bit shoddy.
> 
> If this helps, I look at it kinda like a pro-wrestling match. Yes, it is fantasy. Yes, there are things (like the Irish Whip) which make no sense but are accepted as part of the genre. But there's still an underlying psychology to how/why things are done are particular way.
> 
> When it's done well, I can get sucked in enough to not thing twice about Undertaker being a zombie or Steve Austin being coherent enough to wrestle after drinking 36 beers. When it's done poorly, I might think "wtf?" over something as simple as a wonky-looking wristlock.



When it comes to Star Wars, I've given up on expecting pretty much anything more than cartoon logic. I find it easier to enjoy it that way. If there's more than that, then it's a bonus.


----------



## Zaukrie

When I say "new"....I mean new characters, not from the movies. I don't need ideas (though that would be nice also) that are totally new, just new to Star Wars. I don't need nostalgia. I don't need the same story over and over. I get others don't agree....but that's what I mean by new.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

When it comes to the Spice, it is extracted using slave labor, and that is enough of a reason for many people to try and shut the trade down completely. And we are talking Boba Fett here. But use of slave labor, run by a criminal syndicate, and it is addictive? That is the trifecta.


----------



## Janx

trappedslider said:


> If you really break it down, the whole thing kind of just sucks.



well, yeah.

I'm probably way less critical of stuff that's decent or doesn't miss the mark so badly.

Mandolorean was great. Even if it also had problems. We expectations this would be more of the same. Then it came out.

There are folks who loved the series. I'm not feeling it.


----------



## trappedslider

Ryujin said:


> When it comes to Star Wars, I've given up on expecting pretty much anything more than cartoon logic. I find it easier to enjoy it that way. If there's more than that, then it's a bonus.



"It's just a show; I _should really just relax_. "


----------



## Shades of Eternity

I am getting way too much enjoyment out of the Book of Boba Fett than should be legal.


----------



## Ryujin

trappedslider said:


> "It's just a show; I _should really just relax_. "



OK, I admit it. There are times that a show really winds me up, however, when it comes to Star Wars the lack of seriousness and logic is baked into its DNA, from inception.


----------



## Zardnaar

Zaukrie said:


> When I say "new"....I mean new characters, not from the movies. I don't need ideas (though that would be nice also) that are totally new, just new to Star Wars. I don't need nostalgia. I don't need the same story over and over. I get others don't agree....but that's what I mean by new.




 Very little would be new even to Star Wars. Due to legends they covered pretty much every trope in sci Fi and fantasy. 

 Nano tech, plagues, mega structures, lost tech, precursors etc.


----------



## Older Beholder

I wonder where R2D2 was at the end of the show? He wasn't with Mando and Grogu, unless Grogu was sitting on him in the final shot. 

Did they leave him with Amy Sedaris?


----------



## pukunui

The Lizard Wizard said:


> I wonder where R2D2 was at the end of the show? He wasn't with Mando and Grogu, unless Grogu was sitting on him in the final shot.
> 
> Did they leave him with Amy Sedaris?



I suspect Peli convinced R2 to leave Grogu with her, and then he flew the x-wing back to Luke.


----------



## Older Beholder

pukunui said:


> I suspect Peli convinced R2 to leave Grogu with her, and then he flew the x-wing back to Luke.



I forgot about the X-wing. 
Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.


----------



## Stalker0

The Lizard Wizard said:


> I wonder where R2D2 was at the end of the show?



Heading to his own spin-off show I assume!


----------



## Dioltach

Stalker0 said:


> Heading to his own spin-off show I assume!



Numbering the episodes could become quite confusing: "R2D2 S2E4".


----------



## Morrus

The Lizard Wizard said:


> I forgot about the X-wing.
> Yeah, that makes a lot of sense.



Yeah Luke needs the X Wing back so he can sink it into the sea.


----------



## Shades of Eternity

Jedi Drivers <shakes fist>.


----------



## Zardnaar

Fett's helmet carved out of Kauri.









						Temuera Morrison honoured in Rotorua with Boba Fett kauri carving
					

"As Māori, that's our superpower, us just being who we are, that's how we shine in this world."




					www.newshub.co.nz
				




 Gifted to Temuera.


----------



## Maxperson

Shades of Eternity said:


> Jedi Drivers <shakes fist>.



If you don't update them regularly the Jedi start acting wonky and become hermits.


----------



## Flamestrike

Morrus said:


> It does seem weird that in an advanced industrial galaxy with instantaneous comms that people wouldn't know of the magic lightsaber wielding space wizard galactic peacekeepers.




The instantaneous comms (the Holonet) was taken over by the Empire in one of its first moves. They effectively controlled all media. You can see even today the influence State actors can have on information - convincing people of batshit crazy stuff like Qanon or the COVID conspiracy stuff. To literally deny observable reality.

Now imagine an Empire with the ability to do that in a determined and concentrated manner, while at the same time hunting down any Force sensitives (the Inquisition is canon now, and we've seen Cad Bane abducting force sensitive kids) and murdering them or flipping them into secret Empire operatives.

People have been shown to know about the Jedi (the Armorer character talks about them, noting the history of the Darksaber being the weapon of a Mandalorian Jedi, and other characters have referenced them as well). 

I think it's more a case that the Empire has spread a determined propaganda and disinformation campaign re the Jedi. As a consequence many think they existed but dont any more, that the Force doesnt exist any more and has died out (or was never real, and just parlor tricks by a 'hokey religion' or 'trying to frighten us with your sorcerous ways and sad adherence to an ancient religion'), some think they were just myths, some think they were the bad guys that attempted to overthrow the Republic and everything in between, with a few people knowing the actual truth of the matter.

We've seen what a few years of misinformation on social media can do in real life. Amplify that by 20 years of deliberate misinformation, and no real method for anyone else to find any other information out to counter it (we can presume the Empires prescribed school History classes resemble something like Nazi Germanies, teaching all sorts of fake history, pseudo science and garbage as well).


----------



## Zardnaar

Flamestrike said:


> The instantaneous comms (the Holonet) was taken over by the Empire in one of its first moves. They effectively controlled all media. You can see even today the influence State actors can have on information - convincing people of batshit crazy stuff like Qanon or the COVID conspiracy stuff. To literally deny observable reality.
> 
> Now imagine an Empire with the ability to do that in a determined and concentrated manner, while at the same time hunting down any Force sensitives (the Inquisition is canon now, and we've seen Cad Bane abducting force sensitive kids) and murdering them or flipping them into secret Empire operatives.
> 
> People have been shown to know about the Jedi (the Armorer character talks about them, noting the history of the Darksaber being the weapon of a Mandalorian Jedi, and other characters have referenced them as well).
> 
> I think it's more a case that the Empire has spread a determined propaganda and disinformation campaign re the Jedi. As a consequence many think they existed but dont any more, that the Force doesnt exist any more and has died out (or was never real, and just parlor tricks by a 'hokey religion' or 'trying to frighten us with your sorcerous ways and sad adherence to an ancient religion'), some think they were just myths, some think they were the bad guys that attempted to overthrow the Republic and everything in between, with a few people knowing the actual truth of the matter.
> 
> We've seen what a few years of misinformation on social media can do in real life. Amplify that by 20 years of deliberate misinformation, and no real method for anyone else to find any other information out to counter it (we can presume the Empires prescribed school History classes resemble something like Nazi Germanies, teaching all sorts of fake history, pseudo science and garbage as well).




 12 years of Nazism in Germany, or pick your favorite totalitarian regimes with lots of propaganda. 

 People knew Jedi existed but most people never met one and wouldn't have known the uns and out of their philosophy or beliefs.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion

Everyone talking about the spread of information, or the lack of, need to remember that Star Wars was created in the 70's, long before the craze of social media and cell phones and with a barely existing internet. Same thing with original Star Trek in the 60's. If either were just being created in the 21st century, so much of that background information for the setting would be different. Think about all the viral videos/holocrons that would be floating around out their, both pro and anti-Jedi, otherwise. But because that is how the original trilogy was written, everything since then has to stick with this seeming lack of ubiquitous communication.


----------



## Flamestrike

Zardnaar said:


> People knew Jedi existed but most people never met one and wouldn't have known the uns and out of their philosophy or beliefs.




Not just that, but they would have been subject to deliberate misinformation pumped through the all official channels, taught in school, via the Empire controlled Holonet etc etc

One only needs to look at what is happening IRL now to see how effective such misinformation campaigns can be, even in a open democracy with access to the truth and science and unbiased history, convincing people of totally insane, bizzare and out there 'theories' and totally different realities.

The Empire would be doing the same thing, just in a centralized and infinitely more far reaching manner, from schools, to the internet (Holonet) to official historical archives, banning certain types of thought or information, etc.

Id imagine any discussion of the Jedi on a Galaxy far far aways internet, would resemble the kind of dumpster fire that you see on threads on COVID or Qanon or similar topics on Reddit and elsewhere, with people believing things to be true, that self evidently are not.

It would be the same thing, but those arguing the actual truth (the Jedi existed etc) would have no video footage or historical archives to back it up (they're all destroyed or altered to say the exact opposite) are dealing with people who learnt in school the exact opposite, and are also dealing with the threat of being sent to the Spice Mines of Kessel (or worse) by the ISB for simply posting that information in the first place.


----------



## Khelon Testudo

Dioltach said:


> Numbering the episodes could become quite confusing: "R2D2 S2E4".



Inspiration for next character: a droid who's name refers to an episode of a series that says a lot about that droid.


----------



## Zardnaar

Flamestrike said:


> Not just that, but they would have been subject to deliberate misinformation pumped through the all official channels, taught in school, via the Empire controlled Holonet etc etc
> 
> One only needs to look at what is happening IRL now to see how effective such misinformation campaigns can be, even in a open democracy with access to the truth and science and unbiased history, convincing people of totally insane, bizzare and out there 'theories' and totally different realities.
> 
> The Empire would be doing the same thing, just in a centralized and infinitely more far reaching manner, from schools, to the internet (Holonet) to official historical archives, banning certain types of thought or information, etc.
> 
> Id imagine any discussion of the Jedi on a Galaxy far far aways internet, would resemble the kind of dumpster fire that you see on threads on COVID or Qanon or similar topics on Reddit and elsewhere, with people believing things to be true, that self evidently are not.
> 
> It would be the same thing, but those arguing the actual truth (the Jedi existed etc) would have no video footage or historical archives to back it up (they're all destroyed or altered to say the exact opposite) are dealing with people who learnt in school the exact opposite, and are also dealing with the threat of being sent to the Spice Mines of Kessel (or worse) by the ISB for simply posting that information in the first place.




 Yep you either go with it or keep your mouth shut.


----------



## Maxperson




----------



## MoonSong

Ryujin said:


> Have you ever watched the background characters in most movies/TV shows during a major battle. Some of it is rather comical



There is a Youtube channel that is all about watching battles in slow motion to notice all of the details.


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## Shades of Eternity

Hug it out Mandabros.


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## Ryujin

MoonSong said:


> There is a Youtube channel that is all about watching battles in slow motion to notice all of the details.



There are a bunch of channels that do it, to a greater or lesser degree. The ones that I enjoy the most are by Lindybeige, Schola Gladiatoria (Matt Easton, a HEMA instructor), and The Corridor Crew (a collection of stuntmen and special effects people).


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## Zardnaar

Lindy beige is kinda funny/entertaining.


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## Ryujin

Zardnaar said:


> Lindy beige is kinda funny/entertaining.



"VIKINGS!"


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## Deset Gled

Maxperson said:


> [very true image]




I'm late to this party (just finished this series yesterday), but this was the first thing I came here to comment on.  I'm hoping there's more of it that I've missed in the last 40 pages of discussion.

When I tell people that the Jedi are the bad guys, this kind of "training" is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.  Forcing children to separate from everything and everyone they know isn't how you train an order of leaders, peacekeepers, or anything resembling an emotionally or spiritually balanced adult.  That's how you raise child soldiers and cults.  Is it any wonder that Kylo Ren rebelled from this type of toxic environment? Sorry Luke, I know you didn't have a lot to work with, but it really was better for you to hide from the galaxy than pass this on to future generations.


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## Zardnaar

Deset Gled said:


> I'm late to this party (just finished this series yesterday), but this was the first thing I came here to comment on.  I'm hoping there's more of it that I've missed in the last 40 pages of discussion.
> 
> When I tell people that the Jedi are the bad guys, this kind of "training" is exactly the kind of stuff I'm talking about.  Forcing children to separate from everything and everyone they know isn't how you train an order of leaders, peacekeepers, or anything resembling an emotionally or spiritually balanced adult.  That's how you raise child soldiers and cults.  Is it any wonder that Kylo Ren rebelled from this type of toxic environment? Sorry Luke, I know you didn't have a lot to work with, but it really was better for you to hide from the galaxy than pass this on to future generations.




 Imagine a force sensitive child throwing a wobbly without force sensitive parents. 

 I imagine one would have more force sensitives falling to the dark side.


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## Deset Gled

Zardnaar said:


> Imagine a force sensitive child throwing a wobbly without force sensitive parents.
> 
> I imagine one would have more force sensitives falling to the dark side.




There's a lot of space between "the parents might need some help" and "total physical and emotional isolation coupled with religious brainwashing".

Also, it's pretty troubling to claim that force sensitive folks will naturally tend towards the dark side without Jedi training.


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## Shades of Eternity

So you're saying if the Jedi has counseling services the universe would be a better place?


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## Zardnaar

Deset Gled said:


> There's a lot of space between "the parents might need some help" and "total physical and emotional isolation coupled with religious brainwashing".
> 
> Also, it's pretty troubling to claim that force sensitive folks will naturally tend towards the dark side without Jedi training.




 Children throw tantrums anger leads to the dark side. Go to your room my not work when they can telekinetically throw things are you. 

 Not claiming the Jedi are perfect personally I preferred Legends Luke/ Jedi academy. Basically he let them get married have kids etc.


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## Deset Gled

Shades of Eternity said:


> So you're saying if the Jedi has counseling services the universe would be a better place?




I feel that's a bit like suggesting that we form an intermural soccer league with the Yautja to teach them constructive competition, but yeah, sure.  I suppose it's baby steps in the right direction.


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## MarkB

Shades of Eternity said:


> So you're saying if the Jedi has counseling services the universe would be a better place?



I think the better take-away is that what the Star Wars universe really needs is Jedi Hogwarts.


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## Zardnaar

MarkB said:


> I think the better take-away is that what the Star Wars universe really needs is Jedi Hogwarts.




 It's a popular source of conflict now though (Jedi vs Sith). Wasn't that explicit in OT but since mid 90's I suppose.


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## pukunui

Deset Gled said:


> There's a lot of space between "the parents might need some help" and "total physical and emotional isolation coupled with religious brainwashing".
> 
> Also, it's pretty troubling to claim that force sensitive folks will naturally tend towards the dark side without Jedi training.



I think it depends a great deal on how you view the dark side. If you view it as a corrupting cancer, like George Lucas once did, then it makes some sense that the Jedi would want to get to Force sensitives before they become corrupted. Unfortunately, Lucas couldn't stick to one theory, and it seems that Disney is going with the whole "balance = light and dark are equal" thing, rather than balance = no dark side.

Don't forget that the Jedi and the Force were inspired by real world philosophies (e.g. Taoism) and monastic traditions.


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## Benjamin Olson

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> Everyone talking about the spread of information, or the lack of, need to remember that Star Wars was created in the 70's, long before the craze of social media and cell phones and with a barely existing internet. Same thing with original Star Trek in the 60's. If either were just being created in the 21st century, so much of that background information for the setting would be different. Think about all the viral videos/holocrons that would be floating around out their, both pro and anti-Jedi, otherwise. But because that is how the original trilogy was written, everything since then has to stick with this seeming lack of ubiquitous communication.




Indeed. The original series doesn't even really do 70's mass communication culture. It's space fantasy drawing on sci-fi serials, samurai movies, and Joseph Campbell monomyth theory, rather than the sort of hard science fiction that was concerned about technologies and its impacts. 

And I think this is a good call. Star Wars is about grand heroic adventure not specific technology. It is notable that one of the major pieces of early Star Wars media that Lucas had the least involvement with, the Star Wars Holiday Special, was all about depicting communications in a very 1970s way and this is one of the chief elements in that famously awful show that really undermined the "epic star wars gravitas" and helped cement it as a much reviled embarassment.

This is why I found the opening crawl of Rise of Skywalker so off-putting with "The dead speak! The galaxy has heard a mysterious broadcast, a threat of REVENGE in the sinister voice of the late EMPEROR PALPATINE." I like the cheesy tone well enough, and while bringing back Palpatine was problematic for this trilogy, it at least was justifiable in terms of trying to create an overall continuity for the 9 part saga. But seriously, 40+ years of movies in and now you're going to broach the subject of mass communications in this galaxy without really explaining it? And yes, of course communications technology is covered in expanded universe materials and such, but the movies never covered that and they don't really explain what's going on here. Is the evil emperor jamming all radio communications? Are wookies trying to watch holovids of Jefferson Starship in peace only to be interrupted by Palpatine's cackling? Or did the Emperor just upload a mysterious podcast for people to take in at their leisure?


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## trappedslider




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## MarkB

trappedslider said:


> View attachment 152410



I don't think you need to wait until it's out for that.


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## Shades of Eternity

MarkB said:


> I think the better take-away is that what the Star Wars universe really needs is Jedi Hogwarts.



Meh do you realize how dangerous hogwarts is...<looks at order 66>.
nvm, go hogwarts.


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## MarkB

Shades of Eternity said:


> Meh do you realize how dangerous hogwarts is...<looks at order 66>.
> nvm, go hogwarts.



I just want to see the yearly rotation of Star Wars supporting characters assigned to teach Defence Against the Dark Side. "Hey, that Jar Jar Binks worked with some of the finest Jedi knights. He must have plenty of insights to pass on!"


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## Shades of Eternity

Man it hit me like a ton of bricks.

Book of Boba Fett is George Lucas projection character.

He's a grumpy old man that is really good at somethings, kinda stinks at others, but has trouble with authority to the point of belligerence, but despite being a dick, really does have a soft spot for most people.


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## trappedslider




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