# Agents of Shield: Odd vibe from series



## tomBitonti (Apr 3, 2014)

I just watched episode #16, "The End of the Beginning": 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Agents_of_S.H.I.E.L.D

While I'll continue to watch the show, I'm getting an odd vibe from the show.

The production quality and acting are fine.

What is odd is the lack of depth to the story, and the lack of emotional resonance I'm having with the characters.

Does anyone else have this reaction?  Does having a strong background in the comics (I don't) make a difference?  Is the show just tuned for a very young audience?

Thx!

TomB


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## Hand of Evil (Apr 3, 2014)

Ratings have been dropping with each show, so they may be getting ready for some type of re-vamp.


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 3, 2014)

You're certainly not alone. TV ought to be an opportunity for long-form storytelling, but not much of substance seems to be happening.


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## Spatula (Apr 3, 2014)

The show just came off a month-long hiatus, and it's spring break, so the ratings dip is not too surprising.

Personally, I enjoy the show. The first half of the season was pretty uneven, but the quality has been really solid now that all the seeds that have been planted are bearing fruit. And I thought this episode was great.

I do have a background in Marvel comics, but I don't think that matters much. The characters are either brand-new for the show/movies, or very minor characters in the comics universe.


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## Umbran (Apr 3, 2014)

tomBitonti said:


> Does anyone else have this reaction?




Yes.  Something like this is why my wife and I stopped watching after only a couple of episodes.



> Does having a strong background in the comics (I don't) make a difference?




Not that I'm aware.  While SHIELD has a strong background in the comics, in general, the specific characters and storylines in the show are not strongly backed by the comics.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 3, 2014)

I am curious where 'Nick Fury' has been . . . ???


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## Plane Sailing (Apr 4, 2014)

I watched it until it started its UK hiatus, I don't know whether it came back or is yet to return, but I don't think I'll bother watching it when it does.

For me there was just too much stupid going on. I couldn't believe in the relationships between the people and the way they acted. On top of that, the stories themselves were not especially interesting to me either. 

It just compared badly in terms with other offerings that have been out in the last decade or so.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 4, 2014)

All I can say is I saw nothing in the ads besides the name itself that made me want to watch the show...so I haven't.


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## calronmoonflower (Apr 4, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> I am curious where 'Nick Fury' has been . . . ???



He's was shown in the latest episode along with a Winter Soldier tie in.


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## Nellisir (Apr 4, 2014)

Plane Sailing said:


> It just compared badly in terms with other offerings that have been out in the last decade or so.



This.

I have a background in comics. I have a STRONG background in comics. If anything, it hurts the show for me. I was hoping for Heroes; I got Buffy. That's not a compliment; I never liked Buffy and it went off the air eleven years ago. TV has moved past (way the hell past) Buffy. The show feels cheap & low-budget in a way Heroes didn't, even when Heroes sucked.

It feels like a show aimed at 13-year olds.

I think things have gotten a _little_ better in recent episodes, but we'll see.


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## Morrus (Apr 4, 2014)

Nellisir said:


> This.
> 
> I have a background in comics. I have a STRONG background in comics. If anything, it hurts the show for me. I was hoping for Heroes; I got Buffy. That's not a compliment; I never liked Buffy and it went off the air eleven years ago. TV has moved past (way the hell past) Buffy. The show feels cheap & low-budget in a way Heroes didn't, even when Heroes sucked.
> .




Wow! Opposite land!

I was hoping for Buffy. I got Heroes, sadly.


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## Umbran (Apr 4, 2014)

Plane Sailing said:


> I couldn't believe in the relationships between the people and the way they acted.




The strength of much of Joss Whedon's work seems to be in developing chemistry between the actors/characters.  These are the hallmarks of Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and the Avengers movie as well.

Unfortunately, since Joss is busy with movies, he's not on hand to provide whatever magic he normally does to make chemistry happen, and I think that, ultimately, is the problem.


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## Jester David (Apr 5, 2014)

Umbran said:


> The strength of much of Joss Whedon's work seems to be in developing chemistry between the actors/characters. These are the hallmarks of Buffy, Angel, Firefly, and the Avengers movie as well.
> 
> Unfortunately, since Joss is busy with movies, he's not on hand to provide whatever magic he normally does to make chemistry happen, and I think that, ultimately, is the problem.



That's likely a big part. Joss helped create the show, did the initial brainstorming, and then handed this off to some people he likes. 



tomBitonti said:


> I just watched episode #16, "The End of the Beginning":
> 
> While I'll continue to watch the show, I'm getting an odd vibe from the show.
> 
> ...



The characters are a big problem with the show. There's no real everyman to latch onto and serve as an audience proxy. Because they're spies, the entire cast is hypercompetent. And the one character that's meant to be the "newbie" is a bit of an unlikable Mary Sue. 

The show also suffers from having to be set in the Marvel Cinematic Universe. There's so much lore to draw on in the Marvel U, but they can't touch any of it because a movie might have dibs. Heck, even Power Man and Iron Fist are getting their own stuff. So it can't make its own lore, but neither can it really use the lore it's being given.
But, at the same time, the show is meant to tie into the movies, acting as a bridge between films. So it's almost a marketing device. I think they were treading a little water until Winter Soldier came out, knowing it was going to shake up the dynamic and status quo. 

I actually liked the last episode. The Clairvoyant twist was interesting, just what I expect from Whedon. And it'll be interesting to see how the May thing shakes out.


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## trappedslider (Apr 5, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> So it's almost a marketing device.
> .




Drop the almost and you'd be 100% right on the money


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## LightPhoenix (Apr 5, 2014)

The big problem with Agents of SHIELD, in my opinion, is one of perception.  Even though they stated it multiple times, it seems like everyone thought it was going to be (basically) the post-Avengers SHIELD sequel.  It was never going to be that, and they were (in my opinion, of course) perfectly clear about that.  I mean, people are still talking about production values like _anything _on non-HBO (and maybe even HBO) TV could match a $220-million dollar summer blockbuster with the better part of a year of post-production.  Not to mention Fox still owns the rights to the term "mutant."  

I think the rest of the problems the show has (and there _are_ problems, no argument there) would have been more easily forgiven if it weren't for the Avengers hanging over its neck.  I do think the show has gotten better over time, but with expectations so sky-high I don't think there was really anything they could have realistically done to get people to give it a chance.


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## Nellisir (Apr 5, 2014)

LightPhoenix said:


> I mean, people are still talking about production values like _anything _on non-HBO (and maybe even HBO) TV could match a $220-million dollar summer blockbuster with the better part of a year of post-production.



I'm not measuring it against the Avengers. I'm measuring it against Farscape, Battlestar Galactica, Heroes, and other shows like that, and I still think Agents is one step away from latex noses and vampires.


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## Nellisir (Apr 5, 2014)

Morrus said:


> Wow! Opposite land!
> I was hoping for Buffy. I got Heroes, sadly.




You come here and watch mine; I'll go there and watch yours. Problem solved.


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## delericho (Apr 5, 2014)

Plane Sailing said:


> I watched it until it started its UK hiatus, I don't know whether it came back or is yet to return, but I don't think I'll bother watching it when it does.




It's been back for three weeks now (I think). I think 4OD should still have the episodes available to watch, and it's back in the Friday night slot it had previously.

I can't help you on your decision whether to watch or not, though. Since it got back it's been pretty much more of the same.


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## Hussar (Apr 5, 2014)

I got to binge watch the entire series recently for the first time.  I thought it was fun.  The characters were interesting, the story lines are decent enough and it is starting to bring out lots of goodies.

It's a pretty standard first season for any show like this afaic.  Going back and watching the first season of most shows and they suck pretty hard.  It takes a while to get their legs and I'm pretty willing to cut a lot of slack.  Then again, that's not always true.  Galactica took off running and then went into a nose diving tail spin in the third season (again, AFAIC).  

Then again, maybe I'm just not all that discerning.  It's fun.  It's a diverting forty minutes or so and isn't too terribly insulting to my intelligence. I can live with that.  Of course, being very, very far out of the loop when it comes to pop culture means that I had pretty much no idea what to expect going in.  That helps a lot.


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## tomBitonti (Apr 5, 2014)

Not that (I think) its entirely bad, it just seems to fall flat given the production quality, and the actors seem good enough.

It's almost if they are deliberately avoiding any major tension in the stories.

For example, in the latest episode, #16, "The End of the Beginning":



Spoiler



The tension of Ward killing the clairvoyant, then being blasted by Colson for killing the wrong person, was let sit for all of about 30 seconds.

The tension of Ward going against orders to kill the clairvoyant.  Ward is emotionally flat for the whole sequence.

The mystery of who was bugging the plane.  That was a _little_ tension, in that the character's didn't know.  But the audience already did.  No reveal at all.



Almost none of it was used to heighten the shows drama.  There was so much dramatic potential, all wasted.

Thx!

TomB


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## Nellisir (Apr 5, 2014)

tomBitonti said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Flat is an understatement. I thought he was possessed/under mental control just because of his utter lack of reaction.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 6, 2014)

Nellisir said:


> Flat is an understatement. I thought he was possessed/under mental control just because of his utter lack of reaction.




I felt the same on this.


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## Mark CMG (Apr 7, 2014)

I think May and Ward now have both been individually and separately told they cannot reveal certain things to Colson under the pretense that he has been compromised by alien tech via Fury.  I think May has been tasked since the beginning to find out all she can, which is why she has gone along with Colson's quest to discover more about Tahiti and that Ward was brought on later with orders to kill "the clairvoyant" before anyone could be mind-hacked into giving up "secrets."  I think Victoria Hand has been behind it all, and all along, and that she believes the Fury is moving us in a direct (particularly regarding cooperation with aliens) she is ideologically opposed to following.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 7, 2014)

So, Fury and Hand are opposed on an ideological basis, Where do you think it will go next? will ward and Mai be ever trusted? Look what has happened with Sky. Even uber hacker girl was accepted in.


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## Scorpio616 (Apr 10, 2014)

I like the show, but it focused too much on a core set of characters. Definitely needed more rotation in the agents working under Colson. 

Definitely liking the new emblem...
[sblock] 
 [/sblock]


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 10, 2014)

Yo know, I remember t hat symbol when i fought in WW II.


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## trappedslider (Apr 10, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> Yo know, I remember t hat symbol when i fought in WW II.




*whispers* Hail Hydra


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## Mallus (Apr 10, 2014)

I think the odd vibe I'm getting from AoS recently is "increased quality".


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 10, 2014)

trappedslider said:


> *whispers* Hail Hydra




Bang! bagity bang! bang bang! [nite nite gun!!!]


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## WayneLigon (Apr 11, 2014)

I really think that the main thing wrong with the show is that, with the exception of Greg Clark, most of the actors are simply bad fits for their characters. Only Fitz and Simmons (and Mai to a lesser extent) have any real charisma or appeal to them at all. Making Sky the focus for things was a terrible choice, and Ward's actor is just as bland and shallow as you can get. We couldn't even get a tight smile and a 'Hail HYDRA' from him at the end of last episode. I can understand 'cold blooded, does what needs doing', but he doesn't react to much of anything at all. I'm pretty sure that he's faked his switch but it would be very beneficial to the show if he hasn't - then he'd be gone as a regular.

I'm pretty sure at this point that without Clark, this show wouldn't have made it past episode three.

Part of the problem, though, has probably been things out of their control. Most of the season has felt stiff and disorganized for some reason, and I wonder if that reason is not Captain America 2. I can easily picture conversations like 'We want to do X' 'You can't do that.' 'Why not' 'Can't tell you, yet'. 'Well then our long range plan is Y' 'Sorry, can't go there' 'Why?' 'Can't tell you, plans have not firmed up'. Both TV and movies have such large lead times and yet things can change at the last minute that it might well have been a huge amount of frustration working on AoS and having to dance around what the movie-verse is doing or might be doing. Now here at the very end we have something that could have been done with greater forshadowing all along, and we have a decent Marvel-based villain group instead of 'Centipede' and 'The Clairvoyant'. Though I'm not sure why they could not have used, say, AIM as a know group this season and put them behind some of the goings-on.


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## Jester David (Apr 15, 2014)

WayneLigon said:


> I'm pretty sure at this point that without Clark, this show wouldn't have made it past episode three.
> Part of the problem, though, has probably been things out of their control. Most of the season has felt stiff and disorganized for some reason, and I wonder if that reason is not Captain America 2. I can easily picture conversations like 'We want to do X' 'You can't do that.' 'Why not' 'Can't tell you, yet'. 'Well then our long range plan is Y' 'Sorry, can't go there' 'Why?' 'Can't tell you, plans have not firmed up'. Both TV and movies have such large lead times and yet things can change at the last minute that it might well have been a huge amount of frustration working on AoS and having to dance around what the movie-verse is doing or might be doing. Now here at the very end we have something that could have been done with greater forshadowing all along, and we have a decent Marvel-based villain group instead of 'Centipede' and 'The Clairvoyant'. Though I'm not sure why they could not have used, say, AIM as a know group this season and put them behind some of the goings-on.



Centipede and the Claravoiant were an established villain group: Hydra.

I don,t think they could have foreshadowed more without blowing the secret to Cap 2. We had all the clues to make the same guess as Colson: the Claravoiant wasn't psychic but had clearance. I was wondering if Centipede was Hydra anyway. There,s only so much you can tease without blowing a revelation. 

As as I said a page back, the problem wíth SHIELD was they had to delay for six months until Cap 2 released and the show's planned dynamic kicked in. Now it has. 
Now we don't have a show about one group of agents with a huge organization supporting them, and able to bail them out when things get bad. We have a show about a small group of agents, all that is left of SHIELD fighting Hydra and trying to do their job on their own. Underdogs. The show is radically more compelling. At the very least, they've gotten a second chance to win the fans as it's a very different show now.


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## WayneLigon (Apr 15, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> Centipede and the Clairvoyant were an established villain group: Hydra.




Only after last episode. Before, they were just generic no-name stand-ins with no connection to the Marvel Universe. 



Jester Canuck said:


> The show is radically more compelling. At the very least, they've gotten a second chance to win the fans as it's a very different show now.




Ratings have dropped almost every episode and there was no bump from Thor or Cap 2, meaning most likely the people that went to those movies either are not and never have been 'crossovers' to the TV series, or they dropped it early on and haven't gone back. It's a good turn but at this point, I think it's just too late unless the network just makes the decision to renew the thing anyway to give it a second chance now that word has spread. I guess we could hope for a bump for tonight's episode, and see if that can help matters.

Another thing that might help the show would be to move it to a later time slot, or for Disney to loosen up the purse strings to give it some better production values and room for a superpowered regular on the team. There are dozens and dozens of characters to use. Yes, having them on the show kind of 'stamps' them for the cinematic universe (which is probably why we haven't seen too many) as far as look and feel (and possibly actor). Paxton's other partner is, I think, supposed to be Triathalon's real ID - give him those powers and use him as a replacement for Wade. Pull in, oh, the Living Lightning or Mockingbird or pull a Thunderbolts and give them a villain from their secret prison that might can go straight. Replace Skye with him or her. (Songbird would be a good call, here).


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## Nellisir (Apr 15, 2014)

WayneLigon said:


> Ratings have dropped almost every episode and there was no bump from Thor or Cap 2, meaning most likely the people that went to those movies either are not and never have been 'crossovers' to the TV series, or they dropped it early on and haven't gone back. It's a good turn but at this point, I think it's just too late unless the network just makes the decision to renew the thing anyway to give it a second chance now that word has spread. I guess we could hope for a bump for tonight's episode, and see if that can help matters.



I haven't seen Cap 2 or the most recent episodes, but I can guess what's going on. This is stuff that should have happened last fall, 3 or 4 episodes in, not at the end of the first season. I agree it's really really close to being too late, and it's still possible for them to make the show just suck.



> Another thing that might help the show would be... to loosen up the purse strings to give it some better production values and room for a superpowered regular on the team.



This. So much this. Honestly, I don't want _Agents of Shields_ to be _Heroes_. I do want it to be _Stormwatch: Team Achilles _(a team of "normals" tasked with handling rogue supers, both villain and hero, but the team eventually expanded to include supers - the "not-batshit-vigilante-crazy" ones.)



> There are dozens and dozens of characters to use.



Thousands. Recent interview I read said they were up to 8000 and counting in the comics. Assume 2000 on the X-Men side, that's still 6000 characters. Admittedly most of them are less famous than Bob, Agent of Hydra, but ce la vie.

Hmm. Not being a regular Avengers reader, I hadn't associated Agent Triplett and the superhero Triathalon. So in comicland, Delroy Garrett Jr is Triathalon; in tvland John Garrett is Antoine Triplett's partner/mentor (and in comicland he's some kind of cyborg?)  Triplett as the new Wade makes sense.


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## Raunalyn (Apr 15, 2014)

Honestly, I think the time slot is hurting the show more than anything. That, and the odd scheduling they've had since their fall break (one week on, two weeks off, then back for a few weeks). I'm starting to see the same pattern that we saw with Firefly before it was canceled.

The pacing for this one is much slower than Whedon's usual fare, and the dialogue isn't up to snuff either. Maybe he's trying to tie in too much?

I do hope it picks up. Last episode was pretty good, and this show really has a lot of potential.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 15, 2014)

As much as I agree that this show has more potential then what its giving, that the timeline  should have been a few episodes in, and many if not most other points, I am still hoping for a better story. That possibly things will pick up greatly with this new "The heroes are the underdogs" thing.


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## Jester David (Apr 15, 2014)

WayneLigon said:


> > Centipede and the Clairvoyant were an established villain group: Hydra.
> 
> 
> 
> Only after last episode. Before, they were just generic no-name stand-ins with no connection to the Marvel Universe.



Which is the Catch-22: either they tease that they’re an established group and risk spoiling a blockbuster movie (and causing Nerd Rage) or they keep that subtle and hidden and make them seem unconnected (and causing Nerd Rage).
I think the show took the position of trusting the audience would stick around long enough for the reveal. A ballsy move.




WayneLigon said:


> Ratings have dropped almost every episode and there was no bump from Thor or Cap 2, meaning most likely the people that went to those movies either are not and never have been 'crossovers' to the TV series, or they dropped it early on and haven't gone back. It's a good turn but at this point, I think it's just too late unless the network just makes the decision to renew the thing anyway to give it a second chance now that word has spread. I guess we could hope for a bump for tonight's episode, and see if that can help matters.
> Another thing that might help the show would be to move it to a later time slot,



It went from being record breaking to merely the #3 show. Last week was too soon for there to be a bump. Word-of-mouth takes some time.
Really, Neilsen ratings mean little now, as does time slot. That’s a problem for shows from 1994 not 2014. The shakiness of the first season and rating drop likely meant people just moved it from “must-watch-right-now” to “I’ll DVR and watch in a couple days”. DVRs are fifteen years old now. The success of the show will also be measured in DVD sales and how it does on streaming, as well as the buzz the next coming days. 

ABC had to know going in that the first season was going to be a struggle, that things were going to be weird until the paradigm shift. 



WayneLigon said:


> or for Disney to loosen up the purse strings to give it some better production values and room for a superpowered regular on the team. There are dozens and dozens of characters to use. Yes, having them on the show kind of 'stamps' them for the cinematic universe (which is probably why we haven't seen too many) as far as look and feel (and possibly actor).



Getting characters is likely an issue, what with even B-list characters being “dibbed”. We’re getting Iron Fist as a TV show and a Doctor Strange movie. 

Time is likely as much of an issue that budget. Special FX take time as well as money, and extravagant CGI takes a long time to look good. But they don’t have that much more time to make an SFX heavy episode than a regular episode. 



WayneLigon said:


> Paxton's other partner is, I think, supposed to be Triathalon's real ID - give him those powers and use him as a replacement for Wade.



Sorry, no. Triplett is original as far as I know. Likely created to be the “obvious” Hydra agent. 

I assume you mean Ward. Unless there’s a “Wade” I’m missing.
We don’t need a replacement for Ward. Ward had a role in the show as “the muscle” when May was “the pilot”. Once she returned to Action Girl status, Ward became superfluous. I was expecting him to die, causing drama with May and Skye. During the speech between him and Skye in the closet I was taking bets with my wife regarding his fate. 
Going eeeeevil works as well. Ward being villain would explain why they didn’t make him too likable. You don’t want everyone’s favourite character becoming a evil. Making him the fan favourite would just add pressure to have him redeemed, like Faith in Buffy. This also deflates some of the “Ward is bland” criticisms of the show. 



WayneLigon said:


> Pull in, oh, the Living Lightning or Mockingbird or pull a Thunderbolts and give them a villain from their secret prison that might can go straight. Replace Skye with him or her. (Songbird would be a good call, here).



Skye is the character most people want to see replaced. I think I’d still rather have her planned story arc completed rather than see her unceremoniously written out, just so the time with her served a purpose and wasn’t wasted. Sunk cost fallacy and all. 
I think the problem is the Mary Sue quality of the character, which wouldn’t be a problem with a solid actress. Chloe Bennet just isn’t convincing at doing what the writers/producers want the character to do. That will likely get better as the writers get a feel for the actress’ range.  

The first season has a few established characters. In the 17 episodes we have Graviton, Blizzard, Lorelei, Agents John Garrett, Deathlok, and Victoria Hand. Plus Fury, Jasper Sitwell, and Maria Hill from the movies. But two of those are more origins than full villain appearances. 
I also think they wanted to establish the dynamic between the characters and explore their backgrounds. Establish the characters before things get crazy. 
Looking back, there are no real “wasted” episodes. Like Dollhouse, every episode seemed to serve some purpose in retrospect. This season is really the origin story of the show, the set-up for craziness to follow. But, unfortunately, a few episodes longer than desired. Pulling the rug-out at mid-season would have been better, but they were anchored to the date of Cap, set years in advance. 

I’d would ike to see more B-villains and threats, but I can see why they avoided that, wanting to establish the SHIELD status quo as much as possible before taking that away. They have seasons to deal with villains-of-the-week but only a few months to set-up how far SHIELD could fall, all that they’re losing.

I agree that it would be nice to have someone with powers on the team. They do need the token super hero to remind everyone that it’s taking place in a fantasy world. A redeemed Deathlok would be the obvious choice, and create the most interesting tension between characters. I’m sure there’s a few others they could think of: Marvel has no shortage of B and C-list characters they need to use to avoid trademark lapses.


Still, I'm always amused by people's definition of "suck". SHIELD isn't amazing, and arguably isn't good, but there's sooooo many worse shows out there. If Smallville (aka character continuity, what continuity??) can go ten seasons, SHIELD can go more.


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## Nellisir (Apr 16, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> Sorry, no. Triplett is original as far as I know. Likely created to be the “obvious” Hydra agent.



The name seems to be a real tip of the hat, though. Triplett?  Really?  And as far as it being the "real" name of the "real" (comicland) Triathalon character, well, no version of Deathlok has been named Mike Peterson either.


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## Richards (Apr 16, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> We don’t need a replacement for Ward. Ward had a role in the show as “the muscle” when May was “the pilot”. Once she returned to Action Girl status, Ward became superfluous. I was expecting him to die, causing drama with May and Skye. During the speech between him and Skye in the closet I was taking bets with my wife regarding his fate. Going eeeeevil works as well. Ward being villain would explain why they didn’t make him too likable. You don’t want everyone’s favourite character becoming evil.



At this point, I'm not entirely convinced that Ward's gone to the evil side.  A more likely explanation (to me, anyway), is that Ward was sent in as a mole to Hydra.  With his ties (and presumed loyalty) to Agent Garrett, he has a dedicated Hydra agent willing to vouch for him.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out during tonight's episode (which is an hour later than normal - what the heck?) that he faked shooting Agent Hand and the two SHIELD agents escorting Garrett to the Fridge.

I should hopefully find out in the next hour and a half if my theory holds any water.  But regardless, it also seems like Triplett is a built-in replacement for Ward, either in the short term or on a more permanent basis.

Johnathan


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## Hussar (Apr 16, 2014)

I wonder if my opinion is colored by the fact that I binge watched this?  Makes the pacing really different different.


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## Nellisir (Apr 16, 2014)

Hussar said:


> I wonder if my opinion is colored by the fact that I binge watched this?  Makes the pacing really different different.



Probably makes a big difference. I just heard today that people who binge-watch a show rate it more favorably than those who watch episodically.  I haven't binge-watched many, primarily Lie to Me over lunches and spare moments when I was in school, and watching it that way allowed me to see the character and the actor evolve into each other. The character and his portrayal were much more nuanced towards the end, and there were ticks and traits that had built up that were cool. I don't think I'd have recognized them as easily if I'd watched it slower.


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## Hussar (Apr 16, 2014)

Nellisir said:


> Probably makes a big difference. I just heard today that people who binge-watch a show rate it more favorably than those who watch episodically.  I haven't binge-watched many, primarily Lie to Me over lunches and spare moments when I was in school, and watching it that way allowed me to see the character and the actor evolve into each other. The character and his portrayal were much more nuanced towards the end, and there were ticks and traits that had built up that were cool. I don't think I'd have recognized them as easily if I'd watched it slower.




I really think that's it.  When I binge watch a show - watch the whole season in a month for example - a lot of the flaws in a show get glossed over.  That and the fact that since I'm living overseas, I don't get any hype for shows at all.  I just heard about this show a couple of weeks ago.  Was flipping through some website and saw an article about it.  No expectations means it's harder to disappoint me.


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## GMforPowergamers (Apr 16, 2014)

Richards said:


> At this point, I'm not entirely convinced that Ward's gone to the evil side.  A more likely explanation (to me, anyway), is that Ward was sent in as a mole to Hydra.  With his ties (and presumed loyalty) to Agent Garrett, he has a dedicated Hydra agent willing to vouch for him.  I wouldn't be surprised at all to find out during tonight's episode (which is an hour later than normal - what the heck?) that he faked shooting Agent Hand and the two SHIELD agents escorting Garrett to the Fridge.
> 
> I should hopefully find out in the next hour and a half if my theory holds any water.  But regardless, it also seems like Triplett is a built-in replacement for Ward, either in the short term or on a more permanent basis.
> 
> Johnathan




I thought mole until tonight...

[sblock=I made morris stop watching with a spoiler]

he almost def killed 3 shield agents last week and now at least 2 at the fridge, and he gave the hard drive to hydra... and gravatonium...

if this is a fake out it is one hell of one... [/sblock]


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## Knightfall (Apr 16, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I thought mole until tonight...



It crossed my mind too. Tonight's episode has end all thoughts of him being a triple agent.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 16, 2014)

Thanks for not saying exactly 'out loud' what happened. I will be watching this in about 2 minutes on hulu . . . . .


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## Richards (Apr 17, 2014)

Yeah, I guess I need to officially retract my stated theory, as it no longer seems very feasible.  Bummer cheese.

Johnathan


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 17, 2014)

ARRRGH! I hate having to wait for hulu!


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## ShinHakkaider (Apr 17, 2014)

Hussar said:


> I wonder if my opinion is colored by the fact that I binge watched this?  Makes the pacing really different different.




It does. 

I watched LOST as it aired and thought that the first half of S3 was the most uneven and weakest of the seasons. When I binge watched it years later on bluray it was almost a completely different experience. 

Now binge watching is my preferred way of watching series. It will be interesting how SHIELD holds up on a second go around via binge watching. I'm actually enjoying the series more now in the latter half than the first. It's gotten progressively better I think.


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## calronmoonflower (Apr 17, 2014)

WayneLigon said:


> Only after last episode. Before, they were just generic no-name stand-ins with no connection to the Marvel Universe.



Except for project Deathlok.



GMforPowergamers said:


> I thought mole until tonight...
> 
> [sblock=I made morris stop watching with a spoiler]
> 
> ...



It's possible that 



Spoiler



that a heel face turn will occur at some point an mitigate HYDRA's gains.


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## Jester David (Apr 17, 2014)

calronmoonflower said:


> Except for project Deathlok.
> 
> It's possible that
> 
> ...



Well, the Gravitonium experiment was run by the guy who becomes Graviton (we'll see if that still happens) and the weather experiment kid is Blizzard from Iron Man comics. Loreli was from Simonson's run on Thir. Plus Garret, Hand, and Sitwell are all established Marvel characters.
So not just Deathlok.


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## GMforPowergamers (Apr 18, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> Well, the Gravitonium experiment was run by the guy who becomes Graviton (we'll see if that still happens) and the weather experiment kid is Blizzard from Iron Man comics. Loreli was from Simonson's run on Thir. Plus Garret, Hand, and Sitwell are all established Marvel characters.
> So not just Deathlok.




Many people don't remember a book called "Nick Fury Agent of Shield" and the flying car and the overkill device are both from there...

(I often wonder why they don't pull more from shield comics...)


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## calronmoonflower (Apr 18, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> Well, the Gravitonium experiment was run by the guy who becomes Graviton (we'll see if that still happens) and the weather experiment kid is Blizzard from Iron Man comics. Loreli was from Simonson's run on Thir. Plus Garret, Hand, and Sitwell are all established Marvel characters.
> So not just Deathlok.



The comment that I replied to was about centipede and the clairvoyant, not the series as a whole.


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## Nellisir (Apr 24, 2014)

Finally saw Captain America 2 (which was great) and got caught up in the series.  Gotta say, I'm really liking the recent episodes.   

Agent Trip is cool too. There's definitely something up with him, between the "knows everything" aspect and the references to being a "Legacy".


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## WayneLigon (Apr 24, 2014)

Nellisir said:


> Agent Trip is cool too. There's definitely something up with him, between the "knows everything" aspect and the references to being a "Legacy".




Well, we got that last night: 



Spoiler



he's the grandson of a member of the Howling Commandos, Steve's special unit during the war in the cine-verse. If they follow the comics, he'd be the grandson of Gabriel Jones, the only black member of the Commandos.



OK, that was a good episode. We have, I think, our first identifiably-Marvel superpower: a Darkforce manipulator.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 24, 2014)

Just saw on hulu - the secret base in cananada episode.


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## Nellisir (Apr 24, 2014)

WayneLigon said:


> Well, we got that last night:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That's what I was referring to, but I think it goes beyond that. The phrasing was really weird; I can't find a direct quote, but I remember it as being "you are a legacy", not "you have a legacy" or something like that. In a different context, I'd think of someone being referred to like that as being a "legacy" student at a school, someone who was admitted because their father and grandfather were students.

This is speculation, not strictly a spoiler for the show, but I'll put it under spoilers anyways: 



Spoiler



the first thing I thought of when that came out was Isaiah Bradley, the "Black Captain America", and his grandson Elijah Bradley. It makes sense to me that the US would keep trying to redevelop the Super Soldier Serum, and why not on a Howling Commando? Or maybe it's a result of the Commando's being captured by Hydra during the war - if the Winter Soldier got treated and could survive that fall, why not other Commandos? That makes a better backstory for Triathalon than some mysterious fragment.


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## Knightfall (Apr 26, 2014)

The last few episodes have been really great. I'm loving this show!


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## Mloren (Apr 28, 2014)

I do think it's strange that they haven't really had a central long running plot, I mean there's the general Centipede/Clairvoyant thing but it's not really detailed or engaging.


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