# Another "women" venting thread.



## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

I feel a need to vent. And seeing how I've already vented to my friends, the Enworld community is next.

A week and a half ago I met a girl. She's beautiful, a vegan, and fun to be around. We exchange numbers, and a few days later schedule a lunch.

She arrives half an hour late, dressed to kill and with a story of her being late due to getting distracted by her art. Did I mention she's an artist?

When I say dressed to kill ... She wa wearing this floor-length slip, and a blouse that didn't have a back. Before we left, we exchange a kiss. She turns it into a tease, which I just find more attractive. Leaves me wanting more. Much more.

I write off her being late to her being a little flaky. We arrange another date to go see Shakespeare in the Park. The plan is for me to call her, then come by and pick her up. I'll drive, as my car is in better shape than hers and its probably a 40 minute drive.

When I call her, I don't get an answer. I figure she's just being flightly, and call her back a few times that day. Maybe once or twice more than I should have, but at this point I'm growing despondent. 

I try calling her the fourth to see if she wants to go to a party -- no answer. 

Here it is the seventh and I still havn't heard from her. I tryed calling her one last time today, and left a message that included that I'm now pretty sure she's interested and this will be the last time I bother her.

What I find so frustrating about this little situation isn't that she's not interested -- that I could handle. But that she led me to think she was, and then changed her mind without letting me know. I was on cloud nine after our date, I presume she wasn't. Which is all well and good, people are people. But to not tell me? That's the frustating part -- I'd think I at least deserve her answering the cell and saying "Sorry, not interested." 

It would have let me know a whole lot earlier, and I woudn't have had to wonder about it for days and days. Which this way I did. If there is a question here, it is likely: Why do (some) women simply stop responding when they arn't interested in a guy, instead of telling him straight up?


Note: I bathe once to twice a day. I don't have AS. I brush my teeth everyday. I eat organic fruit and yogurt. I've lost 30 pounds in the past 6 months, and exercise on an almost daily basis. I'm employed, live in an apartment, and very soon I am moving to Pittsburgh for graduate school.


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## MaxKaladin (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> very soon I am moving to Pittsburgh for graduate school.



Maybe that's it.  Perhaps she decided she didn't want to bother getting involved if you were about to leave town.


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## Crothian (Jul 7, 2005)

Some people just feel that it is easier to just avoid saying they aren't interested.  Or she could be selfish and not care what happens to you just does what she feels is best for her.  It happens and there is no real good explanation, you just need to move on and not dwell on it.


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## was (Jul 7, 2005)

1.)  Some women are afraid to confront males and prefer to let things simply fall apart.
2.)  Artistic types don't spend much time at home.  You'll probably have better luck finding her in a smoke-filled coffee shop/bistro or whatever listening to Bohemian music than at home.


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## wgreen (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> She arrives half an hour late, dressed to kill and with a story of her being late due to getting distracted by her art. Did I mention she's an artist?



When a gorgeous girl is that late to a date, you might consider bailing out yourself, calling her up on your cell, and apologizing for standing _her_ up.  It'll drive her nuts.  



			
				Eolin said:
			
		

> When I say dressed to kill ... She wa wearing this floor-length slip, and a blouse that didn't have a back. Before we left, we exchange a kiss. She turns it into a tease, which I just find more attractive. Leaves me wanting more. Much more.



...which is why she did it!



			
				Eolin said:
			
		

> When I call her, I don't get an answer. I figure she's just being flightly, and call her back a few times that day. Maybe once or twice more than I should have, but at this point I'm growing despondent.



Yep, bad news.



			
				Eolin said:
			
		

> What I find so frustrating about this little situation isn't that she's not interested -- that I could handle. But that she led me to think she was, and then changed her mind without letting me know. I was on cloud nine after our date, I presume she wasn't. Which is all well and good, people are people. But to not tell me? That's the frustating part -- I'd think I at least deserve her answering the cell and saying "Sorry, not interested."
> 
> It would have let me know a whole lot earlier, and I woudn't have had to wonder about it for days and days. Which this way I did. If there is a question here, it is likely: Why do (some) women simply stop responding when they arn't interested in a guy, instead of telling him straight up?



Probably because (some) women are cowards, just like (some) men.  It's much easier to ignore someone in that situation until they go away than it is to confront them.  It's understandable.  I agree that it sucks, of course...but it's life.  :\

Anyway, you'll probably never hear from her again, I'm sorry to say.  Good luck to you, dude.

-Will


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## wgreen (Jul 7, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Some people just feel that it is easier to just avoid saying they aren't interested. Or she could be selfish and not care what happens to you just does what she feels is best for her.



Heh...of course, the real reason is simply that she's Chaotic Evil.  

-Will


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 7, 2005)

Y'know..all these recent threads about women and signals and everything just further cements my idea that if I ever become single again, I'm too damned old for this crap.  I'm my own best company anyway, so it won't be that tough to just become a complete bachelor.


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## Einan (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> She's beautiful, a *vegan*, and fun to be around.




She doesn't eat meat!  Obviously if she won't kill a cow for culinary pleasure she's too nuts to worry with!  

Dump her and find a nice carnivorous girl.  Sure you'll always watch your digits around her mouth, but at least you can go out for a steak once in a while. 

Einan


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## The Shaman (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Note: I bathe once to twice a day. I don't have AS. I brush my teeth everyday. I eat organic fruit and yogurt. I've lost 30 pounds in the past 6 months, and exercise on an almost daily basis. I'm employed, live in an apartment, and very soon I am moving to Pittsburgh for graduate school.



There's the problem right there: you lack personal drama.


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## BiggusGeekus (Jul 7, 2005)

Look at it this way, now you're free to sleep with her sister.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 7, 2005)

This one seems to have it together, okay, though, and is just venting on the internet. Which is fine, I've done that, too.   

Girls like that irk me a lot, too. When it has happened to me, I end up dismissing it as "Well, I don't think I'd be very happy with a girl who didn't tell me what was on her mind when she had a problem, anyway," and move on.

I don't need complete honesty, but I could really use some communication, here.


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## Mystery Man (Jul 7, 2005)

wgreen said:
			
		

> When a gorgeous girl is that late to a date, you might consider bailing out yourself, calling her up on your cell, and apologizing for standing _her_ up.  It'll drive her nuts.




Brilliant!


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## der_kluge (Jul 7, 2005)

She probably found out that you're into that lemon fasting crap.  

My recommendation (as always) is to kill her, and take her stuff.


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> There's the problem right there: you lack personal drama.




I quit the crappy job at the end of the week. My last two weeks in town are going to be spent in my Uncle's guest room. I don't yet have a place lined up in Pittsburgh. I'm working on it, but doing it through the net is difficult.

I lost most of that weight in 3 months, and have lose skin all over. My tummy, my face ... even a stretch mark or two on my right side, just above the waist. I don't know how to get rid of the excess skin, except to do situps, which I hate.

The drama is around, just buried a little deeper than in other threads like this.


Thanks guys. The responces have been awesome. Keep up the funny, and I'll be over the flightly flake real soon.


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## Truth Seeker (Jul 7, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> She probably found out that you're into that lemon fasting crap.
> 
> My recommendation (as always) is to kill her, and take her stuff.




Hey, no endorsing of taking a life here... , especially when it comes to women. *Just go and date someone else...it would probably 'kill' her mentally for being her loss...on missing a nice guy like you*


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> She probably found out that you're into that lemon fasting crap.
> 
> My recommendation (as always) is to kill her, and take her stuff.




Strangely enough, we talked about it on our first meeting. We met at a local health food/lunch bar. I was there with another friend, and we were wondering where we could get the maple syrup cheapest. Turns out the Flighty Girl has friends who do the Master Cleanser fast. Its just not her thing.

I'm going to fast again starting Monday. With a friend, who is a physics graduate student. Do you want to know daily measurements?

Oh, Curtis, was it you who said there isn't such a field as the philosophy of science?

I'm not trying to drag it back up ... just checking.


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## Truth Seeker (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I quit the crappy job at the end of the week. My last two weeks in town are going to be spent in my Uncle's guest room. I don't yet have a place lined up in Pittsburgh. I'm working on it, but doing it through the net is difficult.
> 
> I lost most of that weight in 3 months, and have lose skin all over. My tummy, my face ... even a stretch mark or two on my right side, just above the waist. I don't know how to get rid of the excess skin, except to do situps, which I hate.
> 
> ...




Excercise is good...keep it up, and it does take time...


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> What I find so frustrating about this little situation isn't that she's not interested -- that I could handle. But that she led me to think she was, and then changed her mind without letting me know. I was on cloud nine after our date, I presume she wasn't. Which is all well and good, people are people. But to not tell me? That's the frustating part -- I'd think I at least deserve her answering the cell and saying "Sorry, not interested."




Are we really going to do this again this soon?

Go to This thread and start at post #1 by KenM....I'm sure thw whole thread will be of use to you.


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Are we really going to do this again this soon?
> 
> Go to This thread and start at post #1 by KenM....I'm sure thw whole thread will be of use to you.





I've read most of it, TB. It was a train wreck. I'm not "that guy". Most of my similiarities to being "that guy" disapeared with 30 pounds of fat. I'm mostly venting. Like I said. Not really looking for advice. That's why I put the note in there, mostly so that you'd know I wasn't that guy.


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## billd91 (Jul 7, 2005)

Y'know, it's usually the women you stereotypically hear complaining about the men who won't call them or won't return their calls. Fact is some people are inconsiderate.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 7, 2005)

My roommate Neil met a girl at eHarmony.com. They talked a lot online and on the phone, and eventually tried to set up a date.

She calls the day before to say she had an allergic reaction to food and didn't want to go out because she didn't think she looked good all puffy-faced. Neil understood, and they rescheduled.

A week later, Neil's waiting for her at a restaurant, and she's a no-show. Half an hour later he departs, calls her, gets no answer, emails her to make sure he didn't get anything wrong, then . . . and here's the part that I adore him for . . . he says, "If I don't hear back from in a few days, I'll call you one more time. I understand if you got cold feet or didn't feel like dating, but if that's the case, I'd rather you tell me than me having to wonder if maybe something happened to you."

As it was, yeah, it turned out she got into a car accident on the way to the date.

When they finally did get to go on a date, they'd both kinda cooled to the situation, and though they're okay with hanging out, neither of them felt any chemistry. Ah well.



As for my personal 'women' problem, it's that my ex-girlfriend, who is part of my peer group so I can't avoid her, had been acting distant and a little mean for two months. Now, though, she's mellowed, and she's gone back to normal. And curse her for that! When she was being a naughty word, I didn't so much mind that she'd broken up with me, but now that she's friendly and cute again, I can't help but be interested again.

*sigh* Then again, I can't complain about having had the chance to date a cute girl, nor about the chance to hang out with her now.


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## Aeson (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I lost most of that weight in 3 months, and have lose skin all over. My tummy, my face ... even a stretch mark or two on my right side, just above the waist. I don't know how to get rid of the excess skin, except to do situps, which I hate.




I lost a lot of weight also but still have along way to go. If you still need to lose weight you might want to go the surgery route to remove the skin. I will most likely have to do that. Toning execises is your best cheap way of doing it but it will only get you so far.

Oh about the girl. As long as you have both your hands and pr0n or at least a great imagination you wont need a girl.


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## BiggusGeekus (Jul 7, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> As for my personal 'women' problem, it's that my ex-girlfriend, who is part of my peer group so I can't avoid her, had been acting distant and a little mean for two months. Now, though, she's mellowed, and she's gone back to normal. And curse her for that!




Yes ... yes ... give in to your anger.  Let the hatred flow within you.  Strike her down and your journey to the Dark Side will be complete!


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I've read most of it, TB. It was a train wreck. I'm not "that guy". Most of my similiarities to being "that guy" disapeared with 30 pounds of fat. I'm mostly venting. Like I said. Not really looking for advice. That's why I put the note in there, mostly so that you'd know I wasn't that guy.




Ahh, point taken then

Carry on.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I feel a need to vent.




Dealing with women like that makes me wish humans reproduced asexually by spouting podlings from the side of our heads.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 7, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Dealing with women like that makes me wish humans reproduced asexually by spouting podlings from the side of our heads.




But where's the fun in that?


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## RangerWickett (Jul 7, 2005)

SithWickett?  Hmm.  This has possibilities.


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> But where's the fun in that?




Is there more fun in not having phone calls returned, and not having any idea what's going on? Dealing with other human beings can be a whole lot of fun, but it can also be really frustrating.

At times like this, I'm not 100% certain its worth it.

I suppose the lows are worth the stupendous highs of the human experience. I know mine basically works out. I seem to have the uncanny ability to attract and repel a woman in less than a week. Woot, I've found my super power!


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## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Jul 7, 2005)

She has a boyfriend. 

































and it's me!


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> I lost a lot of weight also but still have along way to go. If you still need to lose weight you might want to go the surgery route to remove the skin. I will most likely have to do that. Toning execises is your best cheap way of doing it but it will only get you so far.
> 
> Oh about the girl. As long as you have both your hands and pr0n or at least a great imagination you wont need a girl.




I'm not doing surgery. I'm much to granola for anything like that. I'm exercising nearly every day -- but the toning is taking a whole lot longer than the weight loss. I'm hoping that next time I fast my body will take away the extra skin. I'm just going to have to try and find out.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 7, 2005)

> Is there more fun in not having phone calls returned, and not having any idea what's going on? Dealing with other human beings can be a whole lot of fun, but it can also be really frustrating.




If it wasn't frustrating, it wouldn't be fun.


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## Turanil (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Note: I bathe once to twice a day. I don't have AS. I brush my teeth everyday. I eat organic fruit and yogurt. I've lost 30 pounds in the past 6 months, and exercise on an almost daily basis. I'm employed, live in an apartment, and very soon I am moving to Pittsburgh for graduate school.



It's really not the point. Do you have a million dollars or not???


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Woot, I've found my super power!




That's it!  You need a cape and tights!  Women love the uniform!


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## Wulf Ratbane (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I'm not doing surgery. I'm much to granola for anything like that. I'm exercising nearly every day -- but the toning is taking a whole lot longer than the weight loss. I'm hoping that next time I fast my body will take away the extra skin. I'm just going to have to try and find out.




I'd love to see your lemon fast recipe. I'm a sucker for punishing my body with magic potions.

No, seriously.


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## Dagger75 (Jul 7, 2005)

From now on I'm just take my wooden club and bop a woman on the head and drag her by the hair back to my cave.  If she grabs the club and beats me with it, I will follow her back to hers.  Seems so much easier.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 7, 2005)

Pardon the minor hijack.



			
				RangerWickett said:
			
		

> SithWickett?  Hmm.  This has possibilities.




Dude, I just got the mental image of an ewok opening up with force lightening on someone and something in my brain popped.


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## sniffles (Jul 7, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> My recommendation (as always) is to kill her, and take her stuff.




That is the solution to every problem.   

She's probably a flake. If she was late because she was involved in her art, then she's a flake. And women who are too flirtatious on the first date... don't get me started.

I call upon all female members to start a "men" ranting thread right now!!


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

*The "magic" recipe.*



			
				Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> I'd love to see your lemon fast recipe. I'm a sucker for punishing my body with magic potions.
> 
> No, seriously.




You asked for it. Though this really doesn't feel like punishment -- more like a reward. I'm going to reward my body with a liquid diet after I succesfully prove to myself that I can work the crappy job I'm currently working. And I'd like to state again that I don't really want to start debating whether or not this has scientific validity again. That's been done, and I won't really enjoy doing it again. Let it suffice that it works for me, and seems to for a great many people. It is not designed as a forever sort of thing, but as a cleansing regimine.

First, Google's first website on it: 
http://www.bc1.com/~vitagem/Master_Cleanser.htm

the "Magic" recipe:
60 oz water per day (or 10 oz per glass)
12 tablespoons Organic Grade B Maple Syrup (or 2 tbsp. per glass)
12 tablespoons freshly squeezed lemon juice (or 2 tbsp. per glass)
a little over half a teaspoon of cayenne pepper (or 1/10 tsp. per glass) or to taste

Drink as much as you want. Do not substitute any other type of maple syrup, as any other Grade isn't going to give you the same sort of benefits. The Syrup is for nutritional purposes, while everything else is for cleansing purposes.

Use lemons that are as fresh as possible. Try to use good Cayenne pepper, and to increase the amount as you go. You can get all of this from your local health food store. To do it right, you're supposed to do it for 10 to 40 days. I did it for nine, and had huge benefits. This next time, I'm shooting for 2 weeks, but life may well get in the way. Namely, the second week I'm running a Peace Camp during the day with teenagers at a local church. I may not be able to continue it due to having to keep up with teenagers. We'll see.


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## The Shaman (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I quit the crappy job at the end of the week. My last two weeks in town are going to be spent in my Uncle's guest room. I don't yet have a place lined up in Pittsburgh. I'm working on it, but doing it through the net is difficult.
> 
> I lost most of that weight in 3 months, and have lose skin all over. My tummy, my face ... even a stretch mark or two on my right side, just above the waist. I don't know how to get rid of the excess skin, except to do situps, which I hate.



Yeah....uh-huh...no, I'm just not feeling it. You're still too well-adjusted, espcially for an artsy-type woman.

There's a difference between transitional and trainwreck, and you're definitely the former.  

Congrats and keep up the good work - don't let flaky women get you down.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 7, 2005)

Back to the subject at hand, what level are you and what level is she? We gotta know the CRs' here so we can calculate the XP awards for when one of you deals with the other and wins.


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## Aeson (Jul 7, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I'm not doing surgery. I'm much to granola for anything like that. I'm exercising nearly every day -- but the toning is taking a whole lot longer than the weight loss. I'm hoping that next time I fast my body will take away the extra skin. I'm just going to have to try and find out.



It could still be an option. Go with what is right for you.


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## Eolin (Jul 7, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> It could still be an option. Go with what is right for you.




I try to, in all things. Surgery to do what some hard work could do doesn't sound right for me.


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## Mystery Man (Jul 7, 2005)

A Roman divorced from his wife, being highly blamed by his friends, who demanded, "Was she not chaste?  Was she not fair?  Was she not fruitful?"
Holding out his shoe, asked them whether it was not new and well made.
Yet, added he, none of you can tell where it pinches me.
		-- Plutarch


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 7, 2005)

sniffles said:
			
		

> That is the solution to every problem.
> 
> She's probably a flake. If she was late because she was involved in her art, then she's a flake. And women who are too flirtatious on the first date... don't get me started.
> 
> I call upon all female members to start a "men" ranting thread right now!!




Sniffles, I took the liberty of creating just such a thread for all ENWomen to go nuts and tear us a new one if they so desire.  I'd love to hear the opposing viewpoint.


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## devilbat (Jul 7, 2005)

> Look at it this way, now you're free to sleep with her sister.




That's the best comment I've seen in this thread.


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## Hijinks (Jul 7, 2005)

I have been in this situation too.  A couple of years ago I chatted with a guy on email, then we met for dinner.  I thought it went very well, but then he wouldn't respond back to emails.  A week later I finally said "You're just not that into me, are you?" and he responded with "You're right, I felt no chemistry."  I think he just didn't like my looks, personally, but meh.  To each his own.  But I do hate that cowardice that causes people to just stop responding so they don't have to say "I'm sorry but it won't work out."  Pansies (and I refer to both men and women when I say that, although I do think men do it more often than women, probably because they think the woman will cry if they say anything negative, and men would rather have their fingernails pulled out than listen to a woman cry).

I will say this: I have known a lot of "artists," because I was one of the drama-club-art-club-black-fingernail-polish kids in high school.  If someone is pursuing art as employment, they are very very much into art.  It's easy to get lost in a piece that you're working on.  And, if she's struggling to make ends meet with her art, she may not have the time to stop working, except to eat and sleep.  Artists are a strange breed; they can get immersed in their work and not come up for air for days.

I would say not to write her off until you hear out of her mouth that she's not interested.  Something could have happened, she could have been in a car accident, or maybe, yes, maybe she's not that into you.  But if you like her, you're doing her a disservice by assigning her intentions that she didn't have.  I told KenM the same thing, until he found out from the woman that she wasn't interested in him.  Which turned out to be the case.  But you know, not all that situation's dogs were barking.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 8, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> From now on I'm just take my wooden club and bop a woman on the head and drag her by the hair back to my cave.  If she grabs the club and beats me with it, I will follow her back to hers.  Seems so much easier.




Ah, the "caveman method" of mating...

"Now this is what we call the act of mating....."


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 8, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Pardon the minor hijack.
> 
> 
> 
> Dude, I just got the mental image of an ewok opening up with force lightening on someone and something in my brain popped.




No more than seeing a Klingon doing the same....    


There's times I've felt that people need a good *ZOT* early in the morning.... replaces the need for coffee.


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## Eolin (Jul 8, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> I would say not to write her off until you hear out of her mouth that she's not interested.  Something could have happened, she could have been in a car accident, or maybe, yes, maybe she's not that into you.  But if you like her, you're doing her a disservice by assigning her intentions that she didn't have.  I told KenM the same thing, until he found out from the woman that she wasn't interested in him.  Which turned out to be the case.  But you know, not all that situation's dogs were barking.




I havn't so much written her off as decided not to pursue the situation until I do hear from her. My current null hypothesis (if you will) is that she's not into me. If she calls back and is into me ... all the better.

But I've left enough messages. I'll wait and let myself think about someone else.... Like the not very attractive girl whose got the hots for me. I'll spend an hour or two with her. At around midnight, after work. Perhaps with some beer.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 8, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Holding out his shoe, asked them whether it was not new and well made.




So, are you saying women are like footwear? 



			
				DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> But where's the fun in that?




I think seeing people with podlings hanging off their foreheads becuase they were playing with themselves would be funny.



			
				Hijinks said:
			
		

> I would say not to write her off until you hear out of her mouth that she's not interested.




All joking aside, I disagree with this. At the risk of sounding mysogonistic, she's not worth the time. People - men and women - reveal themselves and their nature most clearly through their actions, what they actually do, rather than what they say. Her action has been, at best, to pointedly ignore you.  

That is not saying she is a bad person or anything, just that you should move on.

And I've never been 100% convienced other people are worth all the fuss and bother - its just the alternitives to other people leave something to be desired.


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## Gnarlo (Jul 8, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> But where's the fun in that?




Chasing them around the room with a hammer.


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## Majoru Oakheart (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Note: I bathe once to twice a day. I don't have AS. I brush my teeth everyday. I eat organic fruit and yogurt. I've lost 30 pounds in the past 6 months, and exercise on an almost daily basis. I'm employed, live in an apartment, and very soon I am moving to Pittsburgh for graduate school.



Sheesh, it's sad that we have to end our posts in this now.  Like it matters at all to the question at hand.


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## Turanil (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I'll wait and let myself think about someone else.... Like the not very attractive girl whose got the hots for me. I'll spend an hour or two with her. *At around midnight*, after work. Perhaps *with some beer*.



Why? Because of the shame? (I mean: midnight so nobody will see her in the dark including yourself; and with some beer because being drunk will ease the pain)


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## Turanil (Jul 8, 2005)

Majoru Oakheart said:
			
		

> Eolin said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



It matters much more than you would think. In fact it's of primary importance when searching for a mate. See, I have been alone for years, but it's own my fault since I never really made the effort to move to Pittsburgh...


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Jul 8, 2005)

Einan said:
			
		

> She doesn't eat meat!  Obviously if she won't kill a cow for culinary pleasure she's too nuts to worry with!
> 
> Dump her and find a nice carnivorous girl.  Sure you'll always watch your digits around her mouth, but at least you can go out for a steak once in a while.
> 
> Einan




My dad warned me when I was a young lad to stay away from vegetarians.  "Never trust a woman who won't eat a hot dog" he said.


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## Majoru Oakheart (Jul 8, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> It matters much more than you would think. In fact it's of primary importance when searching for a mate. See, I have been alone for years, but it's own my fault since I never really made the effort to move to Pittsburgh...



I agree, it matters in finding a woman, but this thread wasn't about finding a woman.  It was, "I went out on a date with a woman and she doesn't return my calls anymore."

I suppose, the only reason this would need to be said is to avoid EVERYONE giving him the same answer "You likely live with your parents, didn't shower and didn't pay enough attention to her" either that or everyone was going to flame him for being a geek.


----------



## Turanil (Jul 8, 2005)

Majoru Oakheart said:
			
		

> I suppose, the only reason this would need to be said is to avoid EVERYONE <...> flame him for being a geek.



It's well known that no geek could stand to go to Pittsburgh!


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## Arnwyn (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> A week and a half ago I met a girl. She's beautiful, a vegan,



Red alert!


> She arrives half an hour late, dressed to kill and with a story of her being late due to getting distracted by her art. Did I mention she's an artist?



*Red alert!*


> If there is a question here, it is likely: Why do (some) women simply stop responding when they arn't interested in a guy, instead of telling him straight up?



See above.


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## Majoru Oakheart (Jul 8, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> It's well known that no geek could stand to go to Pittsburgh!



I must visit this "Pittsburgh" and see if I melt...


----------



## Eolin (Jul 8, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> Why? Because of the shame? (I mean: midnight so nobody will see her in the dark including yourself; and with some beer because being drunk will ease the pain)




Basically, yes. I'm not very OK with it, just enough for it to happen once every couple of months. I might actually move the time to this very afternoon. Before work.

Hmm... not to hijack my own thread (well, maybe) ... but the past few days I've been having this bizarre on and off abdominal pain. I think its related to eating to much of types of foods I'm not used to anymore over the 4th (namely, lots of meat and alcohol) ... 

I just took some laxative. Hopefully that'll help fix it. I'm definetly not calling her until after the pain stops.

Anyone have any other good ideas for how to make abdominal pain go away? I've tryed showers, and I've tryed stretching my abdomen -- both have stopped working.


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## Eolin (Jul 8, 2005)

Majoru Oakheart said:
			
		

> I agree, it matters in finding a woman, but this thread wasn't about finding a woman.  It was, "I went out on a date with a woman and she doesn't return my calls anymore."
> 
> I suppose, the only reason this would need to be said is to avoid EVERYONE giving him the same answer "You likely live with your parents, didn't shower and didn't pay enough attention to her" either that or everyone was going to flame him for being a geek.




Mostly I put in that notice so that everyone who trys to help people such as KenM would see it and know this was a different sort of thread. And that i'm a different sort of guy.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 8, 2005)

Turanil said:
			
		

> It's well known that no geek could stand to go to Pittsburgh!





_Phaeshaw!_ Pittsburg's crawling with zombies, vengful Angels, sports-teams and movie crews. Why would you want to go there?


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Basically, yes. I'm not very OK with it, just enough for it to happen once every couple of months. I might actually move the time to this very afternoon. Before work.
> 
> Hmm... not to hijack my own thread (well, maybe) ... but the past few days I've been having this bizarre on and off abdominal pain. I think its related to eating to much of types of foods I'm not used to anymore over the 4th (namely, lots of meat and alcohol) ...
> 
> ...




Well, in May my son was complaining of abdominal pain and he ended up having to have an emergency appendectomy.


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## Eolin (Jul 8, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Well, in May my son was complaining of abdominal pain and he ended up having to have an emergency appendectomy.




Where in the abdomen would that pain be located?


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## Eolin (Jul 8, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> _Phaeshaw!_ Pittsburg's crawling with zombies, vengful Angels, sports-teams and movie crews. Why would you want to go there?




When they flew me out (I love saying that!), I saw no zombies, Angels, or movie crews.

But everybody lvoed The Steelers.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Where in the abdomen would that pain be located?




In his case it was high on his right side under the rib cage, but it can vary from there to almost directly center near the navel.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Jul 8, 2005)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> My dad warned me when I was a young lad to stay away from vegetarians.  "Never trust a woman who won't eat a hot dog" he said.




Hey, my wife is a vegetarian!  

Of course she eats veggie hot dogs.  Should that count?  It's not like real hot dogs are actually made of meat anyway...

Mary Moon...


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## Hijinks (Jul 8, 2005)

> I'll wait and let myself think about someone else.... Like the not very attractive girl whose got the hots for me. I'll spend an hour or two with her. At around midnight, after work. Perhaps with some beer.




And that "not very attractive" girl could be very smart, funny, fun to be with, and might always return your calls, but since she's "not very attractive," she's not worth an effort?

Maybe if you open your eyes to what's around you, you might find something you never knew you could have, that's ten times better than the woman you drooled over that treated you like poop.

But maybe you need a few years under your belt to realize that


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## jgbrowning (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> It would have let me know a whole lot earlier, and I woudn't have had to wonder about it for days and days. Which this way I did. If there is a question here, it is likely: Why do (some) women simply stop responding when they arn't interested in a guy, instead of telling him straight up?




Lets reverse that idea, Why do (some) women simply tell a guy straight up when they aren't interested in a guy, instead of stop responding? Not responding is just as clear, doesn't have any confrontation worries, and requires less wasted energy.

People talk differently. You have to be fluent in several different forms of conversation to start to understand what people are saying, not only in what they are saying but in how they are saying it. I wouldn't be surprised if she was wondering, "Why doesn't this guy just not *get it* that I'm not interested?"

I guess in short, don't expect to get treated the way you'd treat others and understand that things you find as offensive behavior are your preferences. The goal is to find someone who shares enough of those same preferences and spend your life with them.

joe b.


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## Turanil (Jul 8, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> But maybe you need a few years under your belt to realize that



Actually, it's rather that a man should not think under his belt to realize that.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 8, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> And that "not very attractive" girl could be very smart, funny, fun to be with, and might always return your calls, but since she's "not very attractive," she's not worth an effort?
> 
> Maybe if you open your eyes to what's around you, you might find something you never knew you could have, that's ten times better than the woman you drooled over that treated you like poop.
> 
> But maybe you need a few years under your belt to realize that




It's sad, but a lot of guys think like this.  I have a friend who's nearly 40 and single because he can't get a super-hot girlfriend.  He thinks only total hotties are worth dating.  His personality is such that it's hard for any woman to find him worthwhile, which leads him to a very bitter take on dating at all.


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## Hijinks (Jul 8, 2005)

Well I've heard of several studies that reflect that men's brains are wired to be focused on the visual, rather than the emotional; hence how men like p0rn more than women do (although I actually like it, but that's another thread  )  Women go for a man who's kind, honest, financially stable, etc etc, rather than just the beautiful man.  Not all women, by far, but studies have shown that women think with their emotions - "would he be a good provider or father?",   "would he treat me right?" - as opposed to "is he hot?"  

Don't get me wrong, we love to look at gorgeous men (Christian Bale, omgz!), but in the end we tend to stick with what's at home.

There are always women that don't apply to this philosophy - my best friend went through a lot of hot losers herself before she grew up a little and realized that concentrating solely on a man's looks is not going to get her a family and security like she was craving.  She is also a smokin' hot woman in her own right, and yes, she treated men she considered "not worthy" like poop, yet they kept on comin' back to sit at her feet like puppies while she chased after hot guys with cool cars.

It's just the way we're wired.  Men, in general, want hot bodies, long flowing hair and bee-stung lips (NOT ALL MEN, JEEZ don't flame me!!), whereas women want partners who are emotionally and intellectually in synch with them.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 8, 2005)

> It's sad, but a lot of guys think like this. I have a friend who's nearly 40 and single because he can't get a super-hot girlfriend. He thinks only total hotties are worth dating. His personality is such that it's hard for any woman to find him worthwhile, which leads him to a very bitter take on dating at all.




I like to remind myself that evolution by natural selection is alive and well today. People who think they need a super-hot girlfriend that looks like a magazine ad will end up not giving rise to the next generation.

The ones who *get* super-hot girlfriends (which is a matter of subjective opinion, of course) are those that would probably settle for less, and those who can overlook other qualities about the person that would kill some of the rest of us.

I mean, I've had encounters with some beautiful women that you couldn't PAY me to pursue, just because....yipes. But I've had happy relationships dating girls more "aerodynamiclaly curvacious." 

I forgot where I was going with this....nevermind.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 8, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> Well I've heard of several studies that reflect that men's brains are wired to be focused on the visual, rather than the emotional; hence how men like p0rn more than women do (although I actually like it, but that's another thread  )




Hijinks is my kinda girl!


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 8, 2005)

> "would he be a good provider or father?", "would he treat me right?" - as opposed to "is he hot?"




All of which, of course, are as superficial and meaningless in their own way as hawtness.


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## Hijinks (Jul 8, 2005)

> All of which, of course, are as superficial and meaningless in their own way as hawtness.




How so?  Not trying to argue in any way, just wondering what your meaning is.  Can you clarify?  


If you're just referring to women wanting men with more money, I don't disagree.  I never, ever said that women's motives were entirely pure and altruistic.  But "a good father" does not always (not even sometimes) mean "will he make enough money to support the family?"  Women want a man who will help raise children according to a mutual shared belief and moral value system, not just a man to pay the bills.

Many women do look for a man to "take care" of them.  I don't myself, but many do.  I never said women who go only for rich guys are ever right, because they never are.


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## The Shaman (Jul 8, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> When they flew me out (I love saying that!), I saw no zombies, Angels, or movie crews.
> 
> But everybody loved The Steelers.



I was in Pittsburgh on business a few years ago, and I have to say I was impressed by both the city and the female-hawtness quotient.

Good luck to you!


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## Eolin (Jul 8, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> And that "not very attractive" girl could be very smart, funny, fun to be with, and might always return your calls, but since she's "not very attractive," she's not worth an effort?




The pretty girl seemed to be all of these things.

The unpretty girl in my life is none of them. If she had been any of them, she and I would spend a lot more time together.


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## Eolin (Jul 9, 2005)

If anyone is interested, it'd appear I do NOT have appendicitus.

Hooray.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 9, 2005)

W00t! 



> How so? Not trying to argue in any way, just wondering what your meaning is. Can you clarify?




'twould be my pleasure!

I mostly meant that we are all pretty superficial creatures when first considering someone. Not that that's a bad thing by any means, but that a lot of time what we first look for in a person doesn't tell you anything about their deapth as a person.

Men may judge their prospective mates on an impossible ideal of feminine beauty and behavior. They mythical 36-24-36, frex. It's like the idea that everyone knows what a circle looks like, but no one can draw a perfect circle freehand, so the closer a drawn circle is to this ideal form, the more asthetically pleasing it tends to be. Everyone knows it's shallow and kind of empty in the end, but it's there at the beginning. When you're in a relationship deep enough, you're going to see the little flaws and little uglies, and then the imaginary 1-10 scale doesn't apply anymore, because she's grown beyond the skin to something more meaningful. She's beautiful when she's ugly. She *becomes* your new ideal, based on what deeper qualities she has that keep you interested once you, say, notice the hairy birthmark on her back. After you get more deeply entangled, you think that just makes her more beautiful to you. She becomes the woman who can look good in baggy sweatpants, the woman who has a certain grace just laying beside you at night, the women who, when she's sweaty and smelly and maybe has put on a few pounds since you first met her, is still, to you, perfect.

While men may rank women on that 1-10 appearance scale as their shallow first glance, women (I'm going from word-of-mouth here, not from experience being a woman. ) tend to do the same thing, but replace "mythical good looks," with, perhaps, "mythical confidence."  Men have a perfect mental physical form that no woman ever really can match, and women have a perfect mental 'alpha male' that no man can ever really match. A powerful, confident man, master of his world, head of his class, with the respect and admiration of his peers, at the top of his game and able to deal with anything without loosing his cool. He's knowledgable and witty, able to make you feel like a more confident person just by being NEAR him. Money is part of it (becuase money makes one more confident), but so is ego, success in general, acting talent, ability to provide (because that, like money, breeds an automatic confidence), and how you treat girls "right" (e.g.: you DON'T worship the ground they walk on), etc. 

That's just as shallow and empty in the end as good looks, because just as a woman dresses to kill when going out on the market, a man will cultivate a confidence that he can show off (which is where I usually fall flat, myself -- my life hasn't taught me to be prideful about myself). This is just as much preening and cawing as a woman who spends an hour getting ready to go out for the night, it's just in a slightly different direction. It's about demonstrating mastery and skill in the world, not about just being lovely yourself. The more "alpha male" a guy tends to be, the more automatically attractive to women he is, just like the more "perfect 10" a girl tends to be, the more automatically attractive she is to men.

And like men who find their women transcend that initial scale once you get to know them better, women (as far as I've seen) often find their men transcend their initial "alpha male" scale. They see their men fail, they see their men struggle, and that just shows how perfect for you he really is. Like a woman wrist-deep in garden fertilizer during a sweltering summer day while dressed in something her grandma handed down becomes the icon of beauty for a man, a man who "opens up" and "is sensitive" and "has an artistic side" becomes the icon of alpha male for a woman. This doesn't happen right away in a relationship, but it gradually comes as comfort increases and the partners come to realize that the other isn't the epitome of beauty 24/7, or is sometimes shy or affraid of things. The flaws become virtues.

Women who only go for rich guys are like guys who only go for near-10's. It's shallow and narrow. In an ideal world, both will be comfortable when they notice their partner ISN'T the dream date they were cracked up to be at first impressions. If they're the kind of guy to break up with a girl for gaining weight, or the kind of girl to break up with a guy for loosing big on his investments, then I think they're missing the point.

The problem isn't that girls are attracted to guys with money or confidence -- I can understand that, like I can understand guys that are attracted to girls with big cup sizes. The problem is when they refuse to look beyond these qualities, because no one is rich and confient when they've just been laid off because of budget cuts, and no one looks like a supermodel when dealing with a clogged garbage disposal.

It's part of life. People are multifaceted. The "only hot girls" guys and the "only rich guys" girls don't care about people as much as they care about their own status. Which, again, in itself, isn't WRONG. But it's definately not the way I'd like to live life.


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## fusangite (Jul 10, 2005)

I, for one, appreciate it when I'm rejected indirectly and non-confrontationally. Be careful what you wish for. Imagine if every woman who didn't want to see you again went to the trouble of clearly communicating her reasons to you. You'd be begging for white lies and unreturned calls.


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## Eolin (Jul 10, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> I, for one, appreciate it when I'm rejected indirectly and non-confrontationally. Be careful what you wish for. Imagine if every woman who didn't want to see you again went to the trouble of clearly communicating her reasons to you. You'd be begging for white lies and unreturned calls.




How about just the ones I'm very interested in who kiss me and make plans for a second date?

I don't necessarily need the reasons, though its nice. A simple "Sorry, not interested" would be fine.


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## Romnipotent (Jul 10, 2005)

Never trust women or traffic signals.


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## Bront (Jul 10, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> If anyone is interested, it'd appear I do NOT have appendicitus.
> 
> Hooray.



That's good news.  I had mine removed and it took me over a month to recover from continued abdominal pain, but I've found my experince is generaly the exception.


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## fusangite (Jul 10, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> How about just the ones I'm very interested in who kiss me and make plans for a second date?
> 
> I don't necessarily need the reasons, though its nice. A simple "Sorry, not interested" would be fine.



Well, she _has_ communicated "Sorry, not interested" to you just in a way that seems peculiar and annoying to you. Go and watch the _Friends_ episode where Chandler is unable to stop saying "I'll call you" at the end of every date regardless of whether he wants to see the woman again.


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## Eolin (Jul 10, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Well, she _has_ communicated "Sorry, not interested" to you just in a way that seems peculiar and annoying to you. Go and watch the _Friends_ episode where Chandler is unable to stop saying "I'll call you" at the end of every date regardless of whether he wants to see the woman again.




I'm not sure she has. Not entirely. She may be wrapped up in  piece of art, have gotten into an auto accident, or just have forgotten how to use electronic devices.

Not really likely, but all possible. As are a host of other possibilities. I'm just assuming she's not interested. It is an assumption that grows more and more epistemically likely every day, but it isn't 100%. 

It is peculiar and annoying because it does leave open other possibilities. If she isn't interested, then this makes it seem that I'm not important enough to be told so. As if in her mind I'm not worthy of consideration.

Or so it seems to me after 4 hours of sleep. My abdomen hurts again, though much less.


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## fusangite (Jul 10, 2005)

You may not like this communication strategy but it's not that uncommon. So you had better get used to it. Essentially this is like you are trying to date in Brazil and are complaining that most of the women in whom you are interested only speak Portuguese.


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 10, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I don't necessarily need the reasons, though its nice. A simple "Sorry, not interested" would be fine.




She _has_ communicated "sorry Not Interested" clear as a bell.


She said she's contact you.
She hasn't contacted you.

That's all _I'd_ need to see right there.

I mean, do you _really_ need to hear those three words to get that message?

Dude...she hasn't called.

She's not interested.

If she is, she'll call back.


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 10, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> You may not like this communication strategy but it's not that uncommon. So you had better get used to it. Essentially this is like you are trying to date in Brazil and are complaining that most of the women in whom you are interested only speak Portuguese.




*LOL*  

Stuart, I declare this "post of the day"!


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## megamania (Jul 10, 2005)

Time to move on.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Jul 10, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> My abdomen hurts again, though much less.




Umm... _No_ chance it's related to your Super Cleanse diet?


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## fusangite (Jul 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> *LOL*
> 
> Stuart, I declare this "post of the day"!



What are you doing up at 8am the day after your wedding!?

Congratulations again BTW.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jul 10, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> What are you doing up at 8am the day after your wedding!?




"it"



> Congratulations again BTW.




Thanks man, wish you could've made it.


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## Eolin (Jul 10, 2005)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> Umm... _No_ chance it's related to your Super Cleanse diet?




I havn't master cleansed in months. These pains began 2 days after I ate beer-soaked bratwurst and beer-soaked hamburgers. I'm pretty sure the lodged solid material partially blocking my colon is related to that crap and not to the detoxifying liquids.


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## Rel (Jul 10, 2005)

Eolin, my advice to you is simple (though probably not easy):  Have fun and love life.  Do things that you enjoy as often as you can and let the rest take care of itself.

I'm not a total hedonist or anything but I've observed two things that I deem relevant to your situation:

1) When you have plenty of fun alternatives, not getting to do a particular thing (like date this girl in the near future) won't bother you as much.

2) Women like guys who are active in doing other things.  One big reason for this seems to be that they regard it as a challenge to be more interesting than the other things the guy might do.  And the confidence/slight indifference that results seems to call to them like moths to a flame.  If you're trying to schedule a date and she says, "What about Wednesday?" and you respond, "No can do.  I play soccer that night," then it says, "I might like you, lady, but I don't NEED you.  I'm pretty happy with my life."  

Drives 'em nuts!

But what do I know, I'm just some middle aged married guy?

(Speaking of which, congrats TB!  I'm sure that nice guys the world over rejoice at you being off the market.  I'll buy you a drink to celebrate at GenCon.)


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## Eolin (Jul 11, 2005)

Rel, I appreciate the advice. I think it is a little misdirected. I've got plenty of friends, and plenty of fun things to do. I suppose that didn't come across in the previous posts.

I've been annoyed at her lack of responce mainly because she seemed really interested -- it was written in her eyes and on her face. I'm not really much of a mindreader, and I don't take the lack of communication to be communication.

Sure, I make it a habit to stop calling after 3 unreturned phone calls -- I can take a hint eventually. That's what I did this time.

Anyway, either I am explaining myself worse and worse, or I m being given a less and less charitable interpretation as this thread goes on -- it started off well enough. I opened it up so I could vent, something I no longer feel the need to do.

I appreciate advice, I do. The recent advice merely does not seem to be quite jiving with the situation.


----------



## Einan (Jul 11, 2005)

Can we end this thread already?  It's just devolving into the same rigamarole again and again.

Einan


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## Gentlegamer (Jul 11, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> Eolin, my advice to you is simple (though probably not easy):  Have fun and love life.  Do things that you enjoy as often as you can and let the rest take care of itself.
> 
> I'm not a total hedonist or anything but I've observed two things that I deem relevant to your situation:
> 
> ...



My experience has shown this to be generally true during the meeting/dating/courting phase.  At some point, the lady should become the most important thing, and you her most important thing.  Ah, true love!


----------



## Rel (Jul 11, 2005)

Eolin, I didn't mean to imply that your life wasn't fun and exciting.  If it is then that's great.  I was just pointing out that sometimes having a budding relationship flake on you can send people into a funk.  That's natural to a point but it seems silly to let something that you have so little invested in to cause you a disproportionate amount of heartache and worry.  Maybe my advice was more directed to other people reading the thread instead of you.




			
				Gentlegamer said:
			
		

> My experience has shown this to be generally true during the meeting/dating/courting phase.  At some point, the lady should become the most important thing, and you her most important thing.  Ah, true love!




I agree with you insofar as we tend to form meaningful relationships and fall in love with those who capture our attention.  And certainly those people should be granted some lattitude and defference for being our significant others.  But I think there is a problem when someone in a relationship gets lazy and thinks that the other person should simply spend time with them out of a sense of entitlement.

I've heard female friends complain about their husbands not wanting to spend enough time with them and asking me what's wrong with these men.  I have told a couple of them (ones who I knew could take a bit of criticism), "Maybe you should try to be interesting."  What I mean is that if all of the things that they want their husbands to spend time doing are things that the husbands find intensely boring then of course they're going to minimize the time they spend doing them.  If they want to be the most important thing in their man's life then one good way to do it is to find things that both of them enjoy doing and do those things.

The opposite could also be true of course but I rarely hear my guy friends complaining about not getting to spend enough time with their wives.


----------



## fusangite (Jul 11, 2005)

Eolin,

Sorry we've begun talking to your straw version instead of the real you. I think it's just in the nature of these threads for that to happen.


----------



## Hijinks (Jul 11, 2005)

> Women like guys who are active in doing other things. One big reason for this seems to be that they regard it as a challenge to be more interesting than the other things the guy might do. And the confidence/slight indifference that results seems to call to them like moths to a flame. If you're trying to schedule a date and she says, "What about Wednesday?" and you respond, "No can do. I play soccer that night," then it says, "I might like you, lady, but I don't NEED you. I'm pretty happy with my life."




I agree with this in theory but not the first sentence.  I, personally, like for the person I'm dating to have a hobby - oh the horror of the guy I dated years ago that had nothing to do but wait for me to get off of work!  *shudder* - BUT I, like many women, don't like to do the pursuing.  If I'm the one constantly saying "wanna do something Wednesday?" then I'm going to get the feeling that he's not interested in me romantically; if he were, he'd want to see me more often and would call me to make plans instead of the other way around.

I do agree that a person shouldn't wait around for a date to call to make plans; if you want to go out yourself to the movies, or go play soccer, or whatnot, make plans to do so, and then when they call, say "Oh sorry, no can do.  How about Friday?"  That way you're still communicating that you're not a lifeless loser, but that you still want to see them.  Being "too available" in the beginning of a relationship can be a big turnoff to many people, and this is where I agree with the above advice.


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## Belen (Jul 11, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I've been annoyed at her lack of responce mainly because she seemed really interested -- it was written in her eyes and on her face. I'm not really much of a mindreader, and I don't take the lack of communication to be communication.




Dude, you did not wait the required 48 hours to call her.  Besides, this thread is making you sound needy, which is the number one reason for a chick to bolt.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 11, 2005)

So, tell us about the Lemon-Scented Fasting Diet?


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## Eolin (Jul 12, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> So, tell us about the Lemon-Scented Fasting Diet?




Scented is hardly the right adjective. Each liter or so of the mixture contains 3 ounces of lemon juice. Which is juice from about 3 lemons. You could call it cayeanne-scented, maybe.

Its going well. This is day 2. The problems of yesterweek have gone away. We'll see what happens from here on -- tommorow ought to be a real cleansing day.

It ought to be as today before bed I'll be taking an herbal laxative tea. And tommorow morning, drinking salt water. made with sea salt. The laxative gets things going, and the salt water is supposed to cleanse the colon. We'll see what comes loose.


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## Rel (Jul 12, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> We'll see what comes loose.




Whatever it may be, I'm not entirely certain that I'd consider that "Need To Know" information for most of us here at ENWorld.


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## Gentlegamer (Jul 12, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I agree with you insofar as we tend to form meaningful relationships and fall in love with those who capture our attention.  And certainly those people should be granted some lattitude and defference for being our significant others.  But I think there is a problem when someone in a relationship gets lazy and thinks that the other person should simply spend time with them out of a sense of entitlement.
> 
> I've heard female friends complain about their husbands not wanting to spend enough time with them and asking me what's wrong with these men.  I have told a couple of them (ones who I knew could take a bit of criticism), "Maybe you should try to be interesting."  What I mean is that if all of the things that they want their husbands to spend time doing are things that the husbands find intensely boring then of course they're going to minimize the time they spend doing them.  If they want to be the most important thing in their man's life then one good way to do it is to find things that both of them enjoy doing and do those things.
> 
> The opposite could also be true of course but I rarely hear my guy friends complaining about not getting to spend enough time with their wives.



What you say is true, and should be read into my statement.  I didn't say it myself for brevity's sake.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 12, 2005)

> If I'm the one constantly saying "wanna do something Wednesday?" then I'm going to get the feeling that he's not interested in me romantically; if he were, he'd want to see me more often and would call me to make plans instead of the other way around.




To be a little Devil's Advocate for a sec, what do YOU do to show a guy you're interested in HIM romantically? Do you follow a different set of rules? If you're interested in a guy romantically, shouldn't you puruse him? If he's the one constantly asking "wanna do something?" shouldn't it make him feel the same way it makes you feel? That if you were interested in him, you'd want to see him more and you would call him and make plans instead of the other way around?

Or is the onus completely on the guy for you? He has to meet your demands, and then you have veto power?


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## Rel (Jul 12, 2005)

Gentlegamer said:
			
		

> I didn't say it myself for brevity's sake.




Well never let it be said that I'm not long winded. 

(this post excepted of course)


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## Rel (Jul 12, 2005)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> He has to meet you demands, and then you have veto power?




This is the standard arrangement.  

The kind of equality you're talking about could destabilize the entire sexual marketplace!  There would be chaos!  Chaos I tell you!


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## Hijinks (Jul 12, 2005)

> what do YOU do to show a guy you're interested in HIM romantically? Do you follow a different set of rules? If you're interested in a guy romantically, shouldn't you puruse him?



 I did not say that I am never the one to suggest dates, nor do I just sit there and wait for a gentleman to always call me. I said *scrolls up* that if I'm the one "constantly asking," then I assume that he's not interested. If I ask one time, then the next time he suggests something, then I suggest something, then he does ... that's what I consider a relationship in which both parties are interested.


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## Eolin (Jul 13, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> Whatever it may be, I'm not entirely certain that I'd consider that "Need To Know" information for most of us here at ENWorld.




All the worse for you. It felt great. This has been day 3.

I went for a bike ride with a friend, she's also master cleansing. It was about 15 miles. I also helped move my parents furniture today. All on less than a thousand calories.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 13, 2005)

> I did not say that I am never the one to suggest dates, nor do I just sit there and wait for a gentleman to always call me. I said *scrolls up* that if I'm the one "constantly asking," then I assume that he's not interested. If I ask one time, then the next time he suggests something, then I suggest something, then he does ... that's what I consider a relationship in which both parties are interested.




Well, I was playing Devil's Advocate, so...  

I just know when some people I've talked to have said "constantly," they really meant "ever, because it's a HUGE turn off."


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## ThirdWizard (Jul 13, 2005)

I would just like to go on record as saying I wish my woman problems were as good as other peoples' woman problems. I'll just assume I'm using up all my bad luck at once.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 13, 2005)

> I would just like to go on record as saying I wish my woman problems were as good as other peoples' woman problems. I'll just assume I'm using up all my bad luck at once.




I feel that, man. But hey, once you've nearly hit bottom, there's little choice but to head back up.


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## ThirdWizard (Jul 13, 2005)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> I feel that, man. But hey, once you've nearly hit bottom, there's little choice but to head back up.




I can say that I've heard the worst breakup line ever. So, yeah, only way to go is up!


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## Eolin (Jul 13, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> I can say that I've heard the worst breakup line ever. So, yeah, only way to go is up!




A year ago, I heard the best.
"I've gotta go see about a boy. Its not that I want to stop what we've been doing, its just that it woudn't be ethical to continue."

She and I are still friends, and are likely to continue being so.


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## ThirdWizard (Jul 14, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> A year ago, I heard the best.
> "I've gotta go see about a boy. Its not that I want to stop what we've been doing, its just that it woudn't be ethical to continue."
> 
> She and I are still friends, and are likely to continue being so.




My first girlfriend left me after discovering she was a lesbian and started a relationship with another woman. The rest have all been downhill from there. 

We did remain friends afterward.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 14, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> My first girlfriend left me after discovering she was a lesbian and started a relationship with another woman. The rest have all been downhill from there.
> 
> We did remain friends afterward.




Sounds like my ex-boyfriend. His previous gf turned lesbian sometime during when she was dating him and they broke up.

A friend of mine tried to date a girl who professed to being a lesbian a few years earlier (not around him. She recently denied it) and they broke up via her sending him a "Dear John" letter. Stating that that was the only way she had to contact him. I called BULL     on that one as I had no probs talking to him... either I'd get him, his mother, his sister, the answering machine (which I hated!) or I'd just email him. And get a response anytime!


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## Eolin (Jul 14, 2005)

Anyone curious to know how the fasting is going? Should I open up another thread for it?


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 14, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> Anyone curious to know how the fasting is going? Should I open up another thread for it?




Yeah. Here's to that. I'm trying a diet, but I'm have trouble. I ate a salad bar yesterday.


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## Eolin (Jul 15, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Yeah. Here's to that. I'm trying a diet, but I'm have trouble. I ate a salad bar yesterday.




An entire salar bar? wow. I don't think that's good for you -- you should eat what you want, and let your body tell you when to stop. So I say, but I'm a crazy hippie.

I've had about 600 calories today, and I'm wondering whether or not to ingest another 300. See, I make the sauce in a one-liter container, and its about 300 calories of maple syrup. And everything else is water and lemon juice, so I figure that's where all the calories come from.

My roomates had Mac n Cheese tonight, and it looked so ... heavy. So solid. It seemed to me that it coudn't possibly be healthy to eat stuff that is solid!

Clearly, I'm speaking at least a little bit in jest. But while the stuff smelled delicious, I had no desire to eat it.

I should make some laxative tea and go to bed.

As for weight loss, I havn't weighed myself today.
2 days ago, I weight 205
Yesterday, 204.
Today, ???
tommorow, we'll see tommorow.

Also, notice that I've been doing a lot of stuff that is decently high-energy requriements while fasting. I helped my folks move and then went on a bike ride 2 nights ago, yesterday I was outside in the hot sun at a basebal game.

I've got *more* energy, not less. Even though I'm ingesting many, many less calories. I don't really know why, what I do know is that I feel good.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 15, 2005)

My weight is hovering around 195 (down from 215 at my fattist), and I want to drop about 10 pounds but don't want to have to amputate anything. I did eat too much at the salad bar and my caloric intake - from cheese, nuts, dressing, etc.  - was probably pretty high. These days, mostly I skip breakfast, have rice cakes for lunch and a medium-size dinner.

Where did you hear about the molassis-lemon-pepper fast, and what have been your experiences with it?


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## Eolin (Jul 15, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Where did you hear about the molassis-lemon-pepper fast, and what have been your experiences with it?




I heard about it first from a dirty hippie friend. She loaned me her copy of the book (which costs like five bucks, and you can order it online. Its stapled.)

From what I understand, molassis and maple syrup are slightly different things -- but I don't know how. I'm going to ask next time I'm at the health food store -- they seem to know that sort of thing.

Anyway, the fast is about cleansing the body of toxins, not so much about weight loss. Weight is just the easiest metric. But it is secondary. What the fast (lemon juice and cayenne pepper) due is to assist the body in the removal of built up toxins. Throw in a nice herbal laxative tea, and the toxins actually get pushed out. 

My experiences have been really positive -- the only negative part is that occasionally I'll wake up at 5 AM needing to ... have a movement. Happened this morning, my insides were slightly upset and I had to get to the toilet. 

I think I steeped the tea for to long -- I let it steep for 20 minutes instead of 15, so that the water would get cooler. Usually its much more ... gentle.

The first time I did thins I lost something like 20 pounds in ten days, if I recall correctly. And felt fantastic. 

As your pallet and even your body have been cleansed of the foods you normally eat with this fast, when you go back to solid foods you can cognitively decide whether or not you like them. Its really a very neat feeling, as you taste it and even if it tastes good, you can make the consciounce decision not to like it -- which for me is based largely on how it makes me feel. For a month or more after I fasted, I didn't eat beef. And only went back because it was extremely expedient, and even so ate much smaller portions. For example, at Braum's I'll now order a sixth pound burger instead of a third pounder. And I'll be full afterwards.

I'm glad to answer any more questions.


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## Rel (Jul 15, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> The first time I did thins I lost something like 20 pounds in ten days, if I recall correctly. And felt fantastic.




I am not a doctor and am in no way qualified to advise people about diet or health.  But 20 pounds in 10 days is a VERY rapid rate of weight loss unless the person in question is VERY overweight in the first place.  Clearly Eolin survived the experience and feels "fantastic" but that sounds a little scary to me.

YMMV.


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## Eolin (Jul 16, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I am not a doctor and am in no way qualified to advise people about diet or health.  But 20 pounds in 10 days is a VERY rapid rate of weight loss unless the person in question is VERY overweight in the first place.  Clearly Eolin survived the experience and feels "fantastic" but that sounds a little scary to me.
> 
> YMMV.




From what I understand, about half of it is in foods that are no longer contained in your digestive system. And the rest is in toxins. But again, I'm a tree-hugging hippie.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 17, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I am not a doctor and am in no way qualified to advise people about diet or health.  But 20 pounds in 10 days is a VERY rapid rate of weight loss unless the person in question is VERY overweight in the first place.  Clearly Eolin survived the experience and feels "fantastic" but that sounds a little scary to me.
> 
> YMMV.




I think it's said that weight loss should be done GRADUALLY, not a large amount in a short amount of time.


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## Nellisir (Jul 17, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> From what I understand, molassis and maple syrup are slightly different things -- but I don't know how. I'm going to ask next time I'm at the health food store -- they seem to know that sort of thing.




The quick answer is: maple syrup is made from the sap of maple sugar trees.  Molasses is made from sugar cane.

From my quick Google search, it looks like you're probably talking about blackstrap molasses, which is the most concentrated form, and apparently sold as a nutritional supplement.  It's also added to animal feed (which explains why our sheep grain always smelled so good).

Grade B maple syrup is the darker, heavier flavored grade (there are 3 kinds of Grade A, and one Grade B).  Maple syrup is pretty much just sugar, albeit with some tree juice mixed in.  There are no additives or anything else - you just boil down the sap, then boil it again, and again*.  Grade B isn't any more concentrated than Grade A; it's just what it is.

;-)
Nell.

*Wikipedia says you throw in a pat of butter to keep the frothing down, but we never did.


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## Eolin (Jul 17, 2005)

Hmmm... molasses ....

I didn't know it was made from sugar cane. While that makes the maple tree lightly less awesome, it makes sugar awesome again. Because molasses is some awesome stuff.


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## Rel (Jul 18, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> I didn't know it was made from sugar cane.




They also make rum from it.  Maybe you could work that into your next fast.


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## Cutter XXIII (Jul 19, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> ]Note: I bathe once to twice a day. I don't have AS. I brush my teeth everyday. I eat organic fruit and yogurt. I've lost 30 pounds in the past 6 months, and exercise on an almost daily basis. I'm employed, live in an apartment, and very soon I am moving to Pittsburgh for graduate school.




That's all I need to know.

Wanna get hitched?


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 19, 2005)

> I think it's said that weight loss should be done GRADUALLY, not a large amount in a short amount of time.




Ideally, sure. Ideally, weight loss is about living a healthy lifestyle, not an extreme purging. But if that extreme purging helps you live a healthy lifestyle....well, people have been going on fasts for millennia and seem to think it does them spiritual and physical good, so as long as you feel good about it, I guess it can't be too bad.


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## Eolin (Jul 20, 2005)

And as for today, my fast has been broken.

It was a ten day fast. I decided to break it while meditating -- my body wanted solid fod. So I bought some OJ, and weened myself off the Sauce.

I had an amazingly good dinner tonight with a friend. Not only was it basically a gourmet dinner, but it was the first food I'd have in 10 days. I had tomato soup. Ordinarily, I dig a good tomato soup. But when its supremely good tomato soup and my pallette is completely cleansed ... yeah, it was so good it was almost sexual.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 20, 2005)

I'm not certian about the fasting. I'm hypoglacemic and I worry about how that will mix with a fast. What I am doing is (A) no breakfast (B) raw fruit, vegitables, rice cakes and water for lunch (D) sensible dinner. I've lost a couple of pounds in a week now.


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## ssampier (Jul 21, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Look at it this way, now you're free to sleep with her sister.




Great, is she available?


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## Rel (Jul 21, 2005)

ssampier said:
			
		

> Great, is she available?




If so then I heartily recommend exploring this option.  I lost my virginity to a girlfriend's older sister.  It was, hands down, the best virginity I ever lost.


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