# No, Hirst Arts. Just...no.



## Iconik

My gaming group and I have decided that we want to dedicate some of our Saturday nights to drinks, food and tile/landscape/wall building. We began looking around and found Hirst Arts all over the internet. But, non of us could really justify spending $35 on one mold. Not to mention that we'd actually need more to make it worthwhile. 

While I have no doubt that Hirst Arts makes a great product, the price isn't justifiable. And this is coming from the guy that has spent copious amounts on gaming products and a nice gaming room. 

So, with that said, do any of you know of any good resources for homemaking this stuff from scratch? You'd be doing me a big favor. My group would appreciate it too as, well, our Saturdays are horribly barren.

PS: Notice I didn't bring up Dwarvenforge. Because if Hirst is too much...Dwarvenforge will be way too much!


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## NewJeffCT

Iconik said:


> My gaming group and I have decided that we want to dedicate some of our Saturday nights to drinks, food and tile/landscape/wall building. We began looking around and found Hirst Arts all over the internet. But, non of us could really justify spending $35 on one mold. Not to mention that we'd actually need more to make it worthwhile.
> 
> While I have no doubt that Hirst Arts makes a great product, the price isn't justifiable. And this is coming from the guy that has spent copious amounts on gaming products and a nice gaming room.
> 
> So, with that said, do any of you know of any good resources for homemaking this stuff from scratch? You'd be doing me a big favor. My group would appreciate it too as, well, our Saturdays are horribly barren.
> 
> PS: Notice I didn't bring up Dwarvenforge. Because if Hirst is too much...Dwarvenforge will be way too much!




The folks from Games Workshop have a pretty good book on how to build terrain for miniature wargames, which works pretty well for D&D as they're generally the same scale.

Miniature Building Authority has some pretty good finished buildings - painted and pretty solid in construction, though some of their nicer stuff can start getting expensive.  You can get it for a small discount (10%?) on eBay through some online dealers, though I have not checked for a while.


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## Wicht

As someone with a tight budget, who has also bought Hirst Art molds, let me chime in and say that the molds will last long enough to make the initial investment worthwhile. I have several of his molds and they are as good today as when I bought them (about seven years ago).  I have used them for my children's school projects, vacation Bible School crafts, and, of course, minature war gaming. The $35 seems like a lot but he's likely only going to sell them to you once.

The real investment with them is time, as building any large projects takes many, many plaster pourings with each cast taking approximately 40 minutes to an hour to complete. 

Now, with that being said, you can actually, I understand, make your own molds (in fact instructions for doing so are on the Hirst aRts page iirc). You just need to by the material and have an original piece you want to pour around.  But I suspect you will find the buy in to making your own molds just as expensive as buying the molds and plaster (which is why I haven't done it myself.)


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## Ourph

Hirst Arts is really the best deal out there if you want solid construction. You can easily build all the dungeons you want with 4 molds (not all of which cost $35, IIRC the accessories mold only costs $15). Once you buy them you can cast thousands of blocks (great value for your money) and you can defray the initial investment by sharing the expense of the molds among the whole group.

If you want something cheaper, there are several companies that make paper models that are fun to build and look really nice. There are also a bunch of free resources with plans for paper models on the internet, just google "paper fantasy models 3D".


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## Wicht

NewJeffCT said:


> The folks from Games Workshop have a pretty good book on how to build terrain for miniature wargames, which works pretty well for D&D as they're generally the same scale.




The games workshop terrain book is well worth it for ideas. I, just this last year, used it as well for teaching my kids how to make terrain. (We did the GW book and then did some brick molding.)

Again though, the initial investment for supplies for any project will run you at least $20-$40 as you buy putty, glue, paints, brushes, knives, etc.


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## Wicht

Ourph said:


> If you want something cheaper, there are several companies that make paper models that are fun to build and look really nice. There are also a bunch of free resources with plans for paper models on the internet, just google "paper fantasy models 3D".




Paper models are also fun. And paper minis are great.

But they do eat up that ink. There really are no modeling solutions that don't cost money in one form or another.


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## Pbartender

Iconik said:


> So, with that said, do any of you know of any good resources for homemaking this stuff from scratch? You'd be doing me a big favor. My group would appreciate it too as, well, our Saturdays are horribly barren.




Also look into similar supplies used to build model train sets and dioramas...  They could be less expensive, depending, and are especially great for wilderness terrain and features.

A store like Hobby Lobby is a good place to start.

"S-Scale" (1:64) railroad models would correspond to roughly 1" = 5' (1:60).


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## Iconik

And this is why I love ENWorld.


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## Ourph

Wicht said:


> Now, with that being said, you can actually, I understand, make your own molds (in fact instructions for doing so are on the Hirst aRts page iirc). You just need to by the material and have an original piece you want to pour around.  But I suspect you will find the buy in to making your own molds just as expensive as buying the molds and plaster (which is why I haven't done it myself.)



As someone who has tried making my own molds, I will say that (for me at least) it really wasn't worth the time, trouble and expense. It takes a LOT of practice and material to get the molds right. The stuff you're working with (especially the mold release compound) is toxic, smelly and expensive. Plus, I poured 5 molds and still didn't get anything that turned out blocks as nice as the HA molds. I feel like I'm being a total schill for HA, but I don't have any connection to or investment in the company... just a big fan.


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## Peter Lee

When I began making casts of my own minis, I bought a resin starting kit from an online supplier - it came with the 2 part room temperature vulcanizing (RTV) rubber for making molds, the 2 part 5 minute resin, mold release (for both the rubber and the resin), clay for making molds, stirring sticks and plastic cups. It was pretty much everything I needed.

I learned how to make molds from the Hirst arts website. The end result:  lots of time spent and more than $35 in failed experiments. It was fun and educational, but if you're balking on $35 molds, you're going to be disappointed with your final price tag. One air bubble in your mold and you either have a ton of clean-up work with your final product or worst case you have a mold you just can't use.

The hirst molds are nice, high quality work and they will save you time. If you insist on making your own molds, here is the best "how-to" on mold making I've ever seen:

Hellboy bust and matrix mold making tutorial - ConceptArt.org Forums

Obviously, you can get away with a one piece mold for simple blocks, but this shows the rabbit hole you may be climbing down.


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## NewJeffCT

Pbartender said:


> Also look into similar supplies used to build model train sets and dioramas...  They could be less expensive, depending, and are especially great for wilderness terrain and features.
> 
> A store like Hobby Lobby is a good place to start.
> 
> "S-Scale" (1:64) railroad models would correspond to roughly 1" = 5' (1:60).




Good point - I bought a bunch of trees several years back from a model railroad outfit... and, since trees come in all sizes (small cherry trees to gigantic redwoods & sequoias), you can pretty much get a range of sizes.  From 1-2 inches tall to 9-12 inches tall and anywhere in between.  Unless you want to mount them on your own, though, make sure you get the ones with bases on them.


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## Pbartender

NewJeffCT said:


> Good point - I bought a bunch of trees several years back from a model railroad outfit... and, since trees come in all sizes (small cherry trees to gigantic redwoods & sequoias), you can pretty much get a range of sizes.  From 1-2 inches tall to 9-12 inches tall and anywhere in between.  Unless you want to mount them on your own, though, make sure you get the ones with bases on them.




Model Train Landscaping Materials at Megahobby.

Railroad and diorama supplies are also a great way to pick up generic animals for use as minis.


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## Chrono22

I also have to give Hirst Arts credit. Those molds are spectacularly long lived and well worth the 35$ investment. I intend to get some more at GenCon this year.
Most hobbies, D&D included, have a significant buy-in cost. I agree that paying so much just to make addons to your D&D games isn't worth it. If you enjoy the activity of building as a hobby in its own right, it is totally worth it.


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## WizarDru

Add me to the list of folks who think that Hirst Arts is just ducky.  Yes, the initial investment is a tad pricey, but you can do SO MUCH with just a couple of molds.  The big difference for hirst arts is that the cost to make a corridor is pretty high....but the cost to make a castle, dice tower and about 200x200 squares of dungeon floor is...about the same as the cost of the corridor (give or take a few dollars of paint.

If you want to go cheaper, then as folks have mentioned, paper collections are one option.  Ink, as mentioned, begins to rack up.  Foam board and a little paint makes for some easy pieces (my one friend made a four-piece colleseum from foam board that is pretty damn spiff)...but ultimately, there's a certain threshold you need to reach.


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## Ariosto

One thing to consider if you want to make your own molds is that you may be dealing with components that oxidize pretty quickly -- degrading usefulness -- once the containers are opened.

So, you may want to have a bunch of originals ready for the process beforehand (probably even before buying the mold materials).

Of course, that you need originals in the first place may be a bigger issue! Give the sculpting a try first, and then consider how much you would pay someone to make a master -- and to make a mold from it!


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## malcolypse

TerraGenesis: Forum Index

these folks are full of great info on building your own terrain, and have some amazing pics of their stuff.


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## adwyn

I use extruded polystyrene insulation, usually called blue or pink board depending on the brand. A 4'x8' sheet of 1/2" is in the $10-15 range.

It is easy to cut into strips and then you can inscribe the stone or brick pattern in with a pencil. It's even easy to do while watching a movie or BSing. Once painted it holds up well to wear and tear as well.

I don't have any photos of my dungeon stuff handy, but here is an Old West jail I built using this method.


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## Toscadero

I've got to chime in with support for Hirst Arts.  $35.00 defrayed amongst a group will cut your cost.  And one 50 pound box of dental plaster will make you a ton of bricks.  

My suggestion is to start small.  Get a floor piece mold and a basic wall mold and try it out.  

I built my Descent board from Hirst Arts and it makes a world of difference in the visual appeal of the game.  The tutorials on the site are great.  These same pieces can be used as floor pieces in our D&D games for cavern crawls.  

The amount of time for each mold to harden depends on where you live.  I cast, scrape after 3 minutes and am demolding after 30 minutes.  If I work fast and start as soon as I get home, I can get 8-10 castings done in an evening while watching TV.  And then there is always that last cast of the night that waits to be demolded in the morning.


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## naloomi

Let me state up front that I am a HUGE fan of Hirst Arts. I actually have a business license with them to sell casts, kits, and builds. 

Now, with that said, let me also say that you only 'need' 1 mold to get started. That mold is #60 - Prison Tower. It comes with floor tiles, wall bricks, windows, arches, and a couple decorative pieces for good measure. That plus shipping is $40.

You should be able to pick up 50 pounds of Hydrostone for around $20-$25. Other than that, you need a mixing container and either a way to scrape or a glass plate to get the excess plaster off of the mold. Over all, Less than $70 to get started (That's less than the starter 3 book D&D pack!!).

7 Years ago I bought 1 mold, 203 (cracked tile floor) to add additional floor tiles to my Dwarven Forge collection. Since then I have replaced my entire Dwarven Forge collection with HA builds, ad now I have around 90 or so HA molds, plus many custom molds.

However, if your heart is set on 'DiY', I do have a good site that may help get you on the right track. The text is in a foreign language (and is part of the pictures, thus can't use google translate on the entire site) but you can get the idea from the pictures.

Tutorial: Wolfgangs Vampirburg is the page I'm primarily referring to, however, the main site is at Tutorials.

Naloomi
Naloomi's Workshop


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## thedungeondelver

Hirst Arts is nice; I have a tower someone gave me once upon a time, and someone else was kind enough to build and paint for me (thanks Gregg and Scott, in that order).

Before I decided what gaming terrain to buy, I looked at a lot of things, and tried some.

Flat "battlemaps" are...meh, okay, but at that point I might as well be drawing it by hand on a piece of paper*.

Punch out/cut out dungeon stuff looked great...!  But...how many gallons of toner are you going to burn through to get a decent collection?  TSR did a pre-made set that was a bitch to get together...bought two for $2 each at Circus World toys when they were having a clearance sale, and I think I  only ever used them once.

Then I looked at Hirst Arts.  That _looked_ like a good choice.  Buy the molds, knock out as many or as much stuff as you want!  All you have to do is pour, and paint.

I had some hard thinking to do before I made that leap, though.  How _much_ pouring and painting would I actually do?  Or would I do any?  Would I wind up with a bunch of unused molds and slowly curing dental plaster sitting out here, like so many of my unpainted reaper minis? 

Ultimately, for me, Dwarven Forge was the way to go.  Yes their stuff is expensive.  Yes, getting even a marginally decent 'crawl going is a serious $ investment...but at the end of the day, I thought, well, this is my _hobby_.  I don't have a half-built antique car in the garage I tinker with, I don't have a collection of cameras and lenses - my hobby is *D&D*.

Thus I have slowly but surely built up a nice collection of two (well, technically three with the Den of Evil set), the cavernous passages set, both trap sets, underwater stream set, cavern set, lots of furniture, two Floor Sets, two Fantasy Starter sets, and tons of individual pieces.

Expensive?  Yes.  Hell yes.  _But_, would I even have a quarter of this if I'd bought Hirst Arts molds and started rolling my own, like I did back in 2000 when I made that jump?  Hell no.

So that's what you have to ask yourself: how much is your time worth?

*=I once blew up the map to B2 (in MSPaint!) so that each square was 2"x2", as well as edited out traps, etc. and used that for the gaming surface - in pieces as we went, because the entire thing would have filled the whole game room floor at that scale...)


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## pogre

I am a huge Dwarven Forge and Hirst Arts fan. I own almost all of the molds. The buy-in is expensive, but as many others have mentioned it's worth it long term.

However, I have seen some outstanding terrain created from foam board, pink board, and balsa. One of the coolest 40K terrain pieces I have seen was created almost entirely from a foam cooler.


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## Silverblade The Ench

there was an awesome castle creator rubber mould set here in UK back in 70s 
I still have it, can't recall the name of the product though, doh! Needot find the booklet for it again
it added sculpting to otuside faces of the bricks, had moulds for windows/doors, battlements, butresses etc
the blocks were solid, not thin, usually about 3/4 of an inch square in cross section, going up to about 3 1/2 inches long for turret rounds, and inch half long for straight sections
curves (for turrets), straights etc


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## Iconik

GREAT replies. Loving it. 

You guys and gals have given me a plethora of ideas. Getting mold #60 that Naloomi was talking about almost sounds worth it. Now, where do I get Hydrostone? Is that something I need to buy from HA as well? I mean really...this seems like it'd be a fun hobby and a nice team building exercise for my group (not that they need it). It'd give us something to do as friends on nights we don't game. 

The foam and pink board ideas sound intriguing. Dammit, I'm going to have to buy a TV for my garage. Or just use the one I'm not using! This sounds great!


EDIT: Isn't foam board too light?

EDIT: I'm looking for a way to customize dungeon walls. Maybe I should just go get some Bendy Walls instead. I don't need anything elaborate. You spend 3 weeks on a scene and the party is only there once for 1 hour? haha.


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## Wicht

If you go with molds, keep in mind that its not really a great team activity during the pouring and molding. Its an activity with large swathes of empty time best spent doing other things - like learning to cut and shape foam board. However, once you have enough blocks, there's certainly enough work to go around glueing and stuff.

Since there are so many Hirst fans here, what glue do people find works best on the blocks. I've settled on using a mixture of white glue and modeling glue which hardens quickly (white glue on the bottom like mortar and then modeling glue on the other piece) but I'm not entirely satisfied with this as it is also more brittle. White glue actually seems like the best glue long term, but the blocks too much while its drying and its slow. Modeling glue by itself is just too expensive for large projects.


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## thedungeondelver

pogre said:


> I am a huge Dwarven Forge and Hirst Arts fan. I own almost all of the molds. The buy-in is expensive, but as many others have mentioned it's worth it long term.
> 
> However, I have seen some outstanding terrain created from foam board, pink board, and balsa. One of the coolest 40K terrain pieces I have seen was created almost entirely from a foam cooler.




*GAMES WORKSHOP* has their "Bridge at Khazad Dum" model in the "How to paint *LORD OF THE RINGS*" book, and it's 2x4s with Great Stuff expanding gap-filler foam sprayed on it in layers and allowed to drip down as it dries.

Brilliant!


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## naloomi

Iconik said:


> Now, where do I get Hydrostone? Is that something I need to buy from HA as well?




No, the Hydrostone is not something you can get from HA. There are many suppliers nationwide of Hydrostone. You can use US Gypsums website to find a local distributor. Gypsumsolutions.com - Leading Manufacturer of gypsum based products used in Flooring, Food & Polymer Fillers, Cements, Casting, Tooling and ceramics



Iconik said:


> I mean really...this seems like it'd be a fun hobby and a nice team building exercise for my group (not that they need it). It'd give us something to do as friends on nights we don't game.




While it is a fun hobby, casting itself is not really a team exercise. The building & painting can be, but not so much the casting.




Iconik said:


> Isn't foam board too light?



That is one of the things that appeal to people using it is the lightness of the end product. It allows extremely large builds without a large weight problem. 



Iconik said:


> I'm looking for a way to customize dungeon walls. Maybe I should just go get some Bendy Walls instead. I don't need anything elaborate. You spend 3 weeks on a scene and the party is only there once for 1 hour? haha.



Well, in this aspect you have many options. And this is a very popular discussion over on the HA boards. Some of the popular options are separate floor and wall sections. This allows you to make whatever rooms you need at any given time, and have limited sections that you have to store. One of the drawbacks of this design is you do not get many variations. 
Another primary option is actual dungeon tilesets, much like what Dwarven Forge utilizes. Here are some 3x3 & 4x4 tileset designs that a buddy of mine came up with that many of us use.





These tilesets use simple floor and walls and look much like:

























Glue - Honestly, I find that Aileen's Tacky glue works best for my use. It is cheap, easy to come by (any craft store like Michaels or JoAnn's), easy clean up, and it's easy to fix mistakes.

I hope this helps.

Naloomi
Naloomi's Workshop


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## dclunie

*Terrain Building*






First a little self promotion  Check out my gaming blog d4d6d8d10d12d20 there are some ideas for creating your own terrain projects (current have a video series of creating your own water tiles for similar to the dwarven forge for cheap) and some other papercraft templates and freebies.  

Overall look into papercraft products, once built they are pretty durable if you store them correctly, and if you use foam core for the base you'll have plenty of durable game terrain (similar to dungeon tiles)

Initially I also looked at the hirts arts products and was in wonderment of what you could build for your campaigns.  The only drawback I saw was the initial investment, and decided to construct some of my own molds.  

I'd say the easy route is just to pony up and get hirst arts molds most of his stuff is designed in a way to worth with most of his other molds without too much effort.  I spent a month straight of working on clay models of "stone work bricks and bases" to cast my own tiles/bricks and i'm still not 100% happy though 85% is more accurate.  Also the stuff is "heavy" to transport around.

The one thing that you've got to know about the "build your own models brick by brick" hobby is that casting your bricks and then building them takes a lot of time even if you have a "system" down.  Think of it exactly like legos, building small things fast is pretty easy doing elaborate buildings will take a while, and unlike legos those bricks don't "interlock" you've got to glue em together. (btw I used quick casting resin which cut down time, but then you have to wash the demolding agent or paint won't hold, and I found that most glues don't adhere well quickly to resin so i used locktite gel supergul which worked great on resin casts, which i did a write up of the various adheasives you can find and put it up on my blog d4d6d8d10d12d20)

Also making your own mold will be somewhat pricy too depening on what silicone you use (which is really the only thing you should use to get some nice detail)  tin based silicone is less expensive, and platinum is of course more expensive but worth the price as its more durrable and typically you can get it in one to one mix ratios which is important.   (tin usually is a 1 to 10 ratio so its kind of a pain to use)

Again I would suggest you go with a hybrid of dungeon tiles (you can make them with foam core and google images really of stone floors, etc.) and paper craft products with a smattering of railroad trees (which you can make too on the cheap)  with a small subset of these tools you can set up almost any encounter, then if you know what the group is coming up against say a chess floor with some weird runes on it, you can quickly customize a new piece that fits in perfect with your old terrain items.

anyways, I'll think i'll start a write up on my blog regarding the process I did when I was making my own tiles, soon since I've had a few requests of the same nature as your original and I took pictures as I went along too so I have the content just have to put words to paper, so to speak.

-david c.
d4d6d8d10d12d20 - my game blog


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## Steel_Wind

I think the investment in time is far more significant than the investment in money. In comparison to the value yielded, the cost of the moulds is relatively low.

It depends on your perspective of course; but I look at my gaming room with a few thousand minis, hundred+ recent hardcovers (ignoring 25 years of RPGs from before the 3.x and 4.x eras -- and that's a large number of books and magazines, I assure you. 

Add in dozens of board games and a few LCD projector units, megamats, battlemats, tables, chairs...

It's a lot of money I have in my hobby. In comparison to the value that some hardcore plaster casters have obtained form their modest investment of $150 in moulds? 

It's a pittance. Do keep that $150 in perspective please. 

I would add that this thread lead me to rewatch some videos and reconsider Hirst Arts castings as a fun diversion. I may just pick spme moulds up at Gencon next week -- so thanks for this thread


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## pogre

naloomi said:


> Glue - Honestly, I find that Aileen's Tacky glue works best for my use. It is cheap, easy to come by (any craft store like Michaels or JoAnn's), easy clean up, and it's easy to fix mistakes.




That's what I use too. It's held up fairly well over the years. Walmart has the best price for it in my area.


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## Ourph

Wicht said:


> Since there are so many Hirst fans here, what glue do people find works best on the blocks.



I use Elmer's wood glue (the yellow, creamy kind). It's more viscous than the white glue, so there isn't as much spillover and it dries hard within ~10 minutes on the material I use. I use Ultracal instead of Hydrostone, which I have heard affects the glue drying time. I think the Ultracal forms up a little more porous, so the moisture in the glue is wicked away and the glue sets up quicker.


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## Iconik

This thread keeps getting better and better with all these wonderful replies and awesome ideas.


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## Mark CMG

Steel_Wind said:


> (. . .) hardcore plaster casters (. . .)





Uh-oh. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G2y8Sx4B2Sk]YouTube - You keep using that word.[/ame]


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## Jor-El

I made a bunch of terrain "modules" similar to the Dwarven Forge pieces using foam core. I printed a bunch of textures and floor grids, glued them to the foam core and hot glued the wall sections to the floor sections. 

They're very sturdy, they look nice, and they were very, very cheap! Just took a few hours to cut and glue together. 

I also cut a bunch of natural cavern modules from pink foam, using a hot wire cutter, and then painted them to look like stone. 

Cut up some refrigerator magnets, glue them to the bottoms of all the pieces, and use them on a magnetic white board. Viola! No sliding around!


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## Iconik

Yeah. I went out and bought some foamcore to do exactly what you did.


Also. Welcome to EN!


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## pogre

Jor-El said:


> I made a bunch of terrain "modules" similar to the Dwarven Forge pieces using foam core. I printed a bunch of textures and floor grids, glued them to the foam core and hot glued the wall sections to the floor sections.
> 
> They're very sturdy, they look nice, and they were very, very cheap! Just took a few hours to cut and glue together.
> 
> I also cut a bunch of natural cavern modules from pink foam, using a hot wire cutter, and then painted them to look like stone.
> 
> Cut up some refrigerator magnets, glue them to the bottoms of all the pieces, and use them on a magnetic white board. Viola! No sliding around!




Very nice - do you have any pictures?


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## Jor-El

I'll have to upload some! 

Combined with some props from Fat Dragon Games and traditional terrain pieces (like tables, chairs, columns, etc.), I can really set up some nice scenery. 

Funny how when I was kid, I'd never imagine I'd have the kind of resources that I do now. To think, we used to just use graph paper and that was about it! I remember when I thought a whiteboard was a big step up.


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## WizarDru

Jor-El said:


> I'll have to upload some!




Count me as a second vote to see some pics.  Always interested into seeing what other folks have accomplished in this realm!


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## Jor-El

Here's a linky to an album with some (blurry) shots. 

Gaming Terrain pictures by drkfathr1 - Photobucket

I really need to work on my mini photography!


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## Olaf the Stout

Put me down as another big Hirst Arts fan.  Don't listen to those people that say you can get away with having just 1 mold.

You think you can, but once you start casting, you think of all the even more awesome things you could be building if you had just 1 or 2 more molds.  And then pretty soon you find that you own over a dozen molds and have another dozen or so on your to-buy list.

Not that I'm talking from personal experience of course!   

I've even managed to suck one of my gaming buddies into the Hirst Arts hobby.  I only had to show him a couple of my very first test pieces and he was instantly sold.  The good thing about it is that we could go halves in the molds and get twice as many as we would otherwise be able to afford individually.

Yes, it can be relatively expensive, but I would suggest that you give it a go first.  If you find it isn't your thing you can generally sell the molds on eBay or other similar places for close to what it cost you in the first place.

Olaf the Stout


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## H.M.Gimlord

Don't know if this thread is still active.  Last post was August 2010, but I couldn't resist.  I bought a 3 Hirst Arts molds (70, 71, 260).  These are the Fieldstone sets.  I started out making the first encounter of Kobold Hall.[sblock=Pictures]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




























[/sblock]The broken door was my son's idea after that piece broke.  I used plaster of paris because I'm cheap, Burnt umber for the base coat, and 2:1 gray for the overcoat.  Highlights were done with a cream-like color I can't remember right now.  The portcullis was made with kabob skewers 1/8", painted with watered-down burnt umber.  

I marked a base of 2" extruded polystyrene insulation foam courtesy of Owens Corning.  This allowed me to make the pit and line it with wall sections.  To do this, I cut completely through the base and lined it with the base upside down.  Then I capped (or should I say 'bottomed') the pit with a 1/4" piece of foam-core.

I set the tiles 1/2" off center so minis are placed on the intersections rather than in the center of the tiles.  This actually made building the walls easier to manage.

The 1" wide corridor to the north (with the portcullis) is not friendly to 1" D&D miniatures, so I made the east wall of the corridor removable (the portcullis comes off with it).

I'm currently working on the second encounter.  It will actually be set 2" lower than this model, so I'm putting this one on 2" blocks to make it high enough.  When this is done, I'll post pictures of the progressing layout.


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## H.M.Gimlord

Thanks BotE.  I'm thinking of filling it a quarter way with that table varnish stuff that Bruce recommended, along with some (a very small amount) of green food coloring.  

Another alternative is to line the floor with the portcullis bottoms and put spikes in it .

I'm noticing, though, that the 1":5' scale is a little constrictive.  I've been told it's better to model at 1":3.5'.  

I'll post the second encounter soon.  It's about 3/4 of the way glued together (not painted yet).  I need some skeletons that are at MOST 1":6' scale.  D&D minis are too big to fit in the coffins.  If all else fails, I'll sculpt something.


----------



## frankthedm

Coolminiornot.com recently released a product called "instantmold" that is very helpful for making molds. 

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ub70AU5RfmI]YouTube - Introducing Instant Mold[/ame]

Some are saying it is a different product repackaged with a gamer markup however. 

Instant Mold - WarSeer
DakkaDakka - Warhammer 40K Forums - Crazy new press molding material/product - Comparable products list added page 1

It seems similar to Friendly Plastic {except FP isn't nonstick] and Oyumaru [which recommends Baby oil as release agent].

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vz8FwUEFMzY]YouTube - Oyumaru Modelling Compound[/ame]


----------



## kitsune9

Wicht said:


> As someone with a tight budget, who has also bought Hirst Art molds, let me chime in and say that the molds will last long enough to make the initial investment worthwhile. I have several of his molds and they are as good today as when I bought them (about seven years ago).  I have used them for my children's school projects, vacation Bible School crafts, and, of course, minature war gaming. The $35 seems like a lot but he's likely only going to sell them to you once.
> 
> The real investment with them is time, as building any large projects takes many, many plaster pourings with each cast taking approximately 40 minutes to an hour to complete.
> 
> Now, with that being said, you can actually, I understand, make your own molds (in fact instructions for doing so are on the Hirst aRts page iirc). You just need to by the material and have an original piece you want to pour around.  But I suspect you will find the buy in to making your own molds just as expensive as buying the molds and plaster (which is why I haven't done it myself.)




I agree with Wicht here. I bought molds from Hirst Arts years ago and they still last to this day.

The only alternative I can suggest is for you to take foam board or similar materials and cut out your own tiles, etc. However, I only recommend this to people who have some skill in doing their own art projects. If you're like me, the $35 investment also produces excellent looking projects too instead of craptacular DIY cutouts.


----------



## TheAuldGrump

First off - if you need something like the Hirst molds then they are worth every penny. Really, you can produce some wonderful stuff, and hydrocal is pretty cheap. When you average things out the price of mold and models drops by a lot.

Heck, given that there is a GM screen that is selling for $150 that could be done, better, with Hirst molds.... Make one screen and there's your money back, right there! 

If you _don't_ need the Hirst molds then pricing them is silly. Aside from very expensive GM screens it is going to take a while to recoup your investment.

Another option, one that I used back in 1981, is the Linka[/i] system. Cheaper and simpler than Hirst, each mold creates an entire wall at a time. Thinner pieces, less flexible, but easier to use.

The Auld Grump


----------



## WizarDru

Here are some of the examples of stuff we've used in our games.  This design only required on Hirst Art mold to create (and one afternoon to cast, another to paint...mostly due to drying times).

Barakus (from 3E):






This one required the addition of a door mold:





Taken further, you get this:





This was made, iirc, with 3 or 4 molds.  One of the molds was just for specialty pieces.






This was accomplished by my wife with some crayola plasticine material:




It looks EXACTLY like the picture from the 3E MM3.

This was part of 'The Senate', a colloseum on my players created for a battle.  It's made of foam board:






Here it is from another angle.  There are four identical pieces.  They combine to form the Senate.






And here it is in actual play:


----------



## the Jester

Hey [MENTION=151]WizarDru[/MENTION], which mold was the one that you used (mostly)? Is it #60 again?

This thread is inclining me towards buying a mold and some paints and glue and seeing what I can do. I fear that I'll end up never using it, but I think one good success would really motivate me pretty well- and it looks pretty easy, albeit time-consuming.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

[MENTION=151]WizarDru[/MENTION]: How did you do the curved walls? Was that a tower mold, or did you wrap the #70 Mold around a can?


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

OK.  Update on Kobold Hall. 

The second encounter was designed to hook right up to the first for flow.  Once the previous room is finished use, then the new level can be added with minimal interruption.  The previous level can be used to give a sense of continuity, or it can be removed to save space.[sblock=Pic]




[/sblock]
I decided to go ahead and cover the cloisters where the dart traps are hidden.  That way you can reveal the map without revealing the trap.  If the players see the suit of armor, they will immediately know something is up, but since you have to bend over and look in, it makes the trap a little more subtle.[sblock=Pic] 




[/sblock]Once the trap is sprung, the top of the cloister can be removed for more accessible play.[sblock=Pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]You'll also notice that the coffins are really more like sarcophagi inset in the floor.  I'll be covering them with a two-floor-tile, and the mold compound advertised in the post above gives me an idea.  I can make a bas-relief of my metal knight (pictured above).  Then I'll lay the relief on top of the two-tile coffin cover to make a decorative top.  After that I'll smash them to make them look violated .


----------



## WizarDru

the Jester said:


> Hey [MENTION=151]WizarDru[/MENTION], which mold was the one that you used (mostly)? Is it #60 again?






H.M.Gimlord said:


> [MENTION=151]WizarDru[/MENTION]: How did you do the curved walls? Was that a tower mold, or did you wrap the #70 Mold around a can?




I didn't actually do those, one of my players did.  I'll check with him and get back to you.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Now I've finished the second cloister and the dais.
[sblock=Pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]I also tried my hand at casting the bas-relief for the sarcophagus covers.  I used the 1/2" flat tiles for the cover slab because the fieldstone tiles were just too "busy".  My son got these cast-metal knights from the art museum gift shop, and they were perfect for this.  I used modeling clay for the molds just because I was impatient.  I wouldn't recommend doing this.  It gets little pieces of plaster in the clay (very annoying). [sblock=blurry pic, but you get the idea]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]The second cloister, like the first, is removable.  Since I did this on 4E scale, the 1" corridors became a problem  again.  I made a 1/2" wall part of the removable cloister cover so that minis would fit (much like I did with the first map). [sblock=pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]Here's the map with both the covers off[sblock=pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]As you can guess, this map is ginormous.  I only have three molds: #260, #70, & #71.  There are over 130 1" floor tiles, which means I needed to pour, pound, scrape, set, dry and glue at least 13 casts just to make this map (not including the painted one before).  I've got a day job, a wife, and two children (8 &10).  Needless to say I won't get around to painting it until next weekend, and even then, it might take another week to finish it .  But the process is enjoyable...almost therapeutic. 

I'm cheap too.  I didn't buy the "Octagonal Fieldstone" molds just for the dais.  I didn't think it would be worth it just yet.    All the same, I didn't glue it to the floor, just in case I change my mind.[sblock=pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]Here's both maps together[sblock=pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]


----------



## the Jester

Nice work, man!

I gotta spread some around, will somebody cover me and rep H.M.Gimlord for me?


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

I have another idea to  bring to life an encounter based on an L4W game I've been DMing for  about a year and a half now, called Hey! That's Not Wayne's Basement.  The idea is the cellar of an inn with enormous wine casks, one of which is actually a secret door leading to a den of thieves.    Problem is, Burce Hirst only has a 1" wide cask, and I would be  looking  for a cask of at least 2" in diameter and 3"  long. Here's a link to "The Cask" in Heidelberg, Germany that served as an inspiration for the idea.  Any ideas where I can get a mold for something like this without having to cast the mold myself?


----------



## Lalato

Note to self:  Add Heidelberg to bucket list.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Oh yeah!  I was born there.  It's definitely a _must _on the bucket list.  Images.  In addition to the old city, there's a replicated Greek amphitheater on the opposite hill. 
[sblock=internet pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock] as well as on old monastery.  I found some cool pictures taken of it by a guy named Rainer Ebert. Don't know him.  I just found it on a Google search.

I go back every chance I get.


----------



## frankthedm

H.M.Gimlord said:


> I'm noticing, though, that the 1":5' scale is a little constrictive.  I've been told it's better to model at 1":3.5'.



this sums it up pretty well...







Eye of the Beholder said:


> Quoting the original AD&D Dungeon Master's Guide, regarding the use of miniatures in the game:
> 
> "Figure bases are necessarily broad in order to assure that the figure will stand... Because of this, it is usually necessary to use a ground scale twice that of the actual scale... squares of about one actual inch per side are suggested. Each ground scale inch can then be used to equal 3 1/2 linear feet, so a 10' wide scale corridor is three actual inches in width and shown as 3 separate squares. This allows depiction of the typical array of three figures abreast, and also enables easy handling of such figures when they are moved."​
> In short, the corridors were drawn ten feet wide, but with the assumption that ten feet was enough for three people fighting side by side (three squares), not two.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Yes.  A grim reality, but unfortunate for those of us who wish to reproduce 4E maps :sigh:.


----------



## Kunimatyu

You can absolutely do Hirst Arts stuff cheaply. Buy the floor molds (usually $10 cheaper than the others) and instead of buying the rest, buy pre-cast blocks from here: Results for PRE-CAST PIECES BY SET

You can then use a few of these sets of pre-cast blocks to make some of your tiles more interesting.


----------



## GameDaddy

Hirst Arts is a good first choice for casting your own terrain pieces, and it's worth it, as the quality molds have a long lifetime and will easily support 100 or more casts.

An alternative I have tried out, is to make my own molds out of Latex Rubber reinforced with surgical gauze. One pound of Latex Rubber is $12 and for 25mm scale will let you build two to three small house sized structures... 

You'll get 25 or so casts out of each before the mold breaks down and becomes unusable. About $10-20 dollars for the modeling supplies, but the molds provide super detailed plaster models.

Doesn't work with resins that well though as the resin hardens and sticks to the molds causing fractures and rough breaks in the latex.


----------



## Al'Kelhar

*Hairy armpits?*

[Threadjack]
When I first read the title of this thread, I read "No, Hirsute Arts. Just... no".

Immediately, I had a mental image of a bunch of drawing students gathered in a semi-cirle around a male, well, "life model", who hadn't, well, waxed... And I could well understand why the OP was saying "Just... no".

This probably says more about me than about the OP, though...
[/Threadjack]

Cheers, Al'Kelhar


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Kunimatyu said:


> You can absolutely do Hirst Arts stuff cheaply. Buy the floor molds (usually $10 cheaper than the others) and instead of buying the rest, buy pre-cast blocks from here: Results for PRE-CAST PIECES BY SET
> 
> You can then use a few of these sets of pre-cast blocks to make some of your tiles more interesting.



I would urge you to splurge and buy the wall mold (per your chosen style) as well, but this looks like a great alternative to buying a mold for simply casting detailing pieces.  There are some molds where I would only see myself casting 10 or so and no more.  Why buy the mold for that if you can get the same amount for $10 less than the mold.  It would be especially worth it for some molds that they don't have, like #85 (couldn't find it), and the the gothic graveyard set (casting resin for things like the fence is hard for me.  I always break them).  I would definitely buy these by the pre-cast set.


----------



## frankthedm

So, how well does concrete / cement work in Hirst arts molds? I cast tank traps and barricades from ice cube trays and was wondering if the small details would just crumble too easily from the Hirst arts mold details.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

I don't know from experience, but I imagine that getting the bubbles out of concrete would be extremely difficult. Concrete tends to be porous, and outgases as it cures.  It also expands.  

I've been told that a mixture of plaster of paris and raw concrete (no stones) will make something that has properties similar to dental stone, but I think dental stone has a polymer compound in it that concrete doesn't have, and I can't imagine concrete being less brittle or even on par with dental stone.


----------



## frankthedm

*Thanks!*



> You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to H.M.Gimlord again.





H.M.Gimlord said:


> I don't know from experience, but I imagine that getting the bubbles out of concrete would be extremely difficult.



Vibro-Massagers help with that.







H.M.Gimlord said:


> I've been told that a mixture of plaster of paris and raw concrete (no stones) will make something that has properties similar to dental stone,



Concrete or Portland Cement?


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

frankthedm said:


> Portland Cement?



You're right.  I was thinking of Portland Cement.   Concrete would be too porous.

[MENTION=1164]frankthedm[/MENTION]:  Have you tried the vibro massagers? I'm afraid they wouldn't work because, unlike plaster or dental stone, concrete tends to produce bubbles chemically while curing.


----------



## frankthedm

H.M.Gimlord said:


> Have you tried the vibro massagers? I'm afraid they wouldn't work because, unlike plaster or dental stone, concrete tends to produce bubbles chemically while curing.



The massager helped reduce the bubbles when i cast the quick set concrete. Without using it the blocks came out of the ice cube trays very weathered looking. Sharp edges / angles tended to be brittle.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

H.M.Gimlord said:


> I have another idea to  bring to life an encounter based on an L4W game I've been DMing for  about a year and a half now, called Hey! That's Not Wayne's Basement.  The idea is the cellar of an inn with enormous wine casks, one of which is actually a secret door leading to a den of thieves.    Problem is, Burce Hirst only has a 1" wide cask, and I would be  looking  for a cask of at least 2" in diameter and 3"  long. Here's a link to "The Cask" in Heidelberg, Germany that served as an inspiration for the idea.  Any ideas where I can get a mold for something like this without having to cast the mold myself?



 Ah. I found a picture that gave me an idea.  I could, possibly, build my own barrel: [sblock=Barrel Inspiration Pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/sblock]Found this one on the Frozen Chaos website.  I was planning on getting the wood plank set anyway (yet more money :sigh: ).


----------



## Mark CMG

A shaving cream cap ought to be about the right size.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Good point.  I also thought of using the container from the old game "A Barrel of Monkeys" [sblock=Pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Kobold Hall Update:

[sblock=Full Layout So Far]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




[/sblock]The modeling clay casts worked pretty well to make ruined sarcophagus lids.  If I were going for something new-looking, I wouldn't have used it, but for a ruin it added a nice touch.  I gave up on the small tiles and decided to use floor tiles upside-down. I poured plaster into the crack between the tiles to hide the seam, and then sanded it smooth.  I couldn't get it perfectly flat, but that just added to the "broken lid" look.[sblock=Sarcophagus Lids]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














[/sblock]The dais posed an interesting test to my patience.  I wanted it to look good, so I decided to use the little 1/8" X 1/8" X 1/4" blocks.  The problem was that there is only one of them in the #70 mold, and the dais required 28 of them.  That means over 14 hours of waiting for plaster to cure!  So I did what all good engineers do.  I cheated.  I used the portcullis block.  You know the one that looks like four of the little blocks placed side-by-side. I simply filled the holes with plaster.  This wasn't easy, because the plaster sets almost immediately when you pour it on dry plaster.  Doing this required some sanding to make sure that it looked good when it was done.  In the end, it's almost impossible to tell that I did it.  The second photo in this spoiler is a shot of the underside of the dais.  You can see where I used the portcullis block.[sblock=Dais]From the top you can't tell.
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	





From the bottom, you can see how I did it.  Notice the four dimples on the top block.





[/sblock]Here are some more action shots.  I love this set.  My son had a friend over for the weekend, and we all played the first encounter using the set.  At that time, the second room had not yet been painted.  He's coming back this weekend, and I'll be ready for them .[sblock=Action Shots]
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	














[/sblock]


----------



## jimmifett

Very awesome! I'm thinking of getting a couple molds when my bday rolls around this year.


----------



## Deset Gled

frankthedm said:


> The massager helped reduce the bubbles when i cast the quick set concrete.




A better method than vibration is to work in a vacuum.  You can make yourself a decent vacuum chamber using a fish tank and a shop vac.  It's most important to maintain the vacuum during curing and mixing.

Note that this experience comes from working with industrial encapsulation compounds, not concrete or plaster.  YMMV.


----------



## WizarDru

Great Stuff.  I'd love to give you XP for it, but I need to spread some more around, apparently.


----------



## Ourph

H.M.Gimlord said:


> Yes.  A grim reality, but unfortunate for those of us who wish to reproduce 4E maps :sigh:.



If you want a little more room to play with, Hirst Arts also makes 1.5 inch floor tile molds.


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Ourph said:


> If you want a little more room to play with, Hirst Arts also makes 1.5 inch floor tile molds.



I might try this with my Inn Cellar Idea.  For now, I'll continue with the 4E scale to keep this set consistent.  [sblock=Reading this might spoils the fun for anyone who actually hasn't seen this adventure]OK. So who hasn't looked at the last few pages of the DMG, but I just had to make sure.

A problem is that when I get to the dragon lair, I'll have to invest another $100.00 or so in the cavern molds, but I guess I'll be ready for it by then.  I imagine it will be late June to mid July by the time I do that.[/sblock]Does anyone have any ideas for a rope and support structure for the Skull-Skull game (Room #3).  I've been beating my brain out trying to think of something, but I'm not too confident about the ideas I've come up with.


----------



## Mark CMG

Spoiler



Caverns are pretty easy to make from styrofoam, put it on top of a grid drawn on black foamcore, and remember that many spray paints will melt styrofoam so you'll want to pick up some cheap gray latex paint to coat the cavern walls.




Just a simple alternative.


----------



## WereSteve

Well ... if someone wants to add outdoor elements, my recommendation would be to check out Woodland Scenics - Model Layouts, Scenery, Buildings and Figures since they have a variety of rock molds, trees, grass, etc.

Steve


----------



## frankthedm

Ice cube trays make grand molds for concrete barriers & tank traps.

Ice cube trays, WD40 as mold release & quick setting concrete. Should have let cure for a few more days, but I wanted to see the results.

Chaos Tank traps from a novelty tray I ought at a Jewel food store.
Tank traps slight bigger than an inch wide made from a tray found at a garage sale.
Jersey barriers made with the bottom of "Progressive International Set of 2 Ice Sticks Flexible Ice Trays" 
1/2" cube-ish blocks from a Bed Bath and Beyond tray. Cubette Mini Ice Cube Tray
Columns still curing were from a Walmart "Ice tubes" tray.









http://img821.imageshack.us/img821/1987/inchplussquaretopdown.jpg
http://img171.imageshack.us/img171/5382/jerseytopdownc.jpg
http://img269.imageshack.us/img269/8093/pillarscuring.jpg
http://img839.imageshack.us/img839/8070/smallcubishtopdown.jpg
http://img859.imageshack.us/img859/637/chaostopdownc.jpg
http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/2748/smallcubish.jpg
http://img716.imageshack.us/img716/4964/chaost.jpg
http://img10.imageshack.us/img10/4593/choascuring.jpg
http://img864.imageshack.us/img864/8046/cubewip.jpg


----------



## Holy Bovine

frankthedm said:


> Ice cube trays make grand molds for concrete barriers & tank traps.
> 
> Ice cube trays, WD40 as mold release & quick setting concrete. Should have let cure for a few more days, but I wanted to see the results.
> 
> Chaos Tank traps from a novelty tray I ought at a Jewel food store.
> Tank traps slight bigger than an inch wide made from a tray found at a garage sale.




Very nice!

  One question - why is there a black bar around the groin area of that Chaos Warrior in the photos?  That seems...odd?


----------



## frankthedm

Holy Bovine said:


> Very nice!
> 
> One question - why is there a black bar around the groin area of that Chaos Warrior in the photos?  That seems...odd?



Because those pics were being posted at a few different places, I decided to black bar that chaos warrior's  codpiece spike.


----------



## frankthedm

> This is cool. How'd you make the thin ones?



 [MENTION=79440]H.M.Gimlord[/MENTION] You mean the ones that look like a Jersey barricade?






[ame="http://www.amazon.com/Progressive-International-Sticks-Flexible-Trays/dp/B00150O1KY/ref=sr_1_7?ie=UTF8&qid=1303096864&sr=8-7"]This is the mold i used for that one.[/ame] Normally it makes nice thick low walls, but flipped upside down it is great for Jersey barricades. This pic shows the underside.






Cleaned ice cube tray
Flipped it upside down
Sprayed with wd40 for release agent
Mixed fast dry concrete.
poured concrete
Used vibro massager to work out air bubbles
Let set for 2 days, occasionally rewetting concrete with spray bottle
CAREFULLY extracted from mold, ( 3 of 14 broke into rubble because i was impatient )

I'm thinking about trying a plaster & white glue mix next since concrete is trying my patience.

EDIT: Seemed to work well enough, added in a bunch of fish tank gravel as aggregate. Made the pouring difficult, but I'm still to used to using concrete so it was par for the coarse. Will have to try using sand as aggregate next time with the plaster.


----------



## frankthedm

The person who suggested this was correct.







> *-Posted by Toomy @ Hirst Arts Casting Page*
> I've experimented with this and found that 3 parts plaster of paris mixed with 2 parts concrete will have almost the same durability as dental plaster



I just tried it out tonight with Quikcrete & Plaster of paris. It also sets with the accelerated speed of dental plaster. 

I almost had it set too soon because I added too much water and had to add more plaster to counterbalance, then had to open and pour from a new bag of sand for aggregate / filler. By the time I was using the back massager to vibrate the air bubbles out of the mold, it was losing most of its fluidity / movement. 

The mold was allowed to set for 4 hours because it was CoD:Modern warfare 2 time. This was FAR more time than was needed.

After taking the barricades out of the mold I was surprised how durable they were already. While they could still be thumb scratched, they were already harder than concrete would be after it had been curing for a few days.

[MENTION=6588]pogre[/MENTION] Have you tried this mix yet?


----------



## pogre

frankthedm said:


> [MENTION=6588]pogre[/MENTION] Have you tried this mix yet?




frankthedm - I have not. You have me curious though. I'm on a bit of a modelling hiatus as I'm crazy busy, but I will give it a shot this summer. I really like the look of your barricades!


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

Alright!  Room 3 is in production![sblock=Here is the floor layout WIP pic]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			




[/sblock]When I play this room, I'll rig the Skull-Skull rope on an actual scaffold, such that instead of rolling d20 to determine a hit, I'll line up the rock on the rope and let-er-fly!  If the mini is hit, it will take damage and will slide to wherever the mini landed as a result of the impact.  Pretty cool no?

I did some pythagorean calculations and came up with 7.25" as the optimal scaffold height.  This allows a rope to suspend a rock that will reach floor level over the center of the pit, and barely clear the 2" wall at the northern edge of the map.  I think the "Kill Zone" will be a little larger than in the DMG.  Oh schade .


----------



## frankthedm

pogre said:


> frankthedm - I have not. You have me curious though. I'm on a bit of a modeling hiatus as I'm crazy busy, but I will give it a shot this summer.



Second warning, the mix sets _fast_. Maybe i didn't clean my mixing bucket enough from the last plaster-crete mix, but the last batch set while pouring the second of 3 trays.  Or the seemingly quick set could just be I took too long getting the 4: plaster, 2: concrete, 6: sand & 3: water mixed together. 

I added some extra water and re-stirred the mix to salvage the last bits, but casts from tray 3 are weak and brittle. I might crush the bad casts down for aggregate. 







pogre said:


> I really like the look of your barricades!



Thanks, do want to mention though, the mold for them seem prone to warping slightly. Oddly, one colour, the darker blue hold up better than the aqua.


----------



## frankthedm

Here are both types of casts that Progressive ice tray can make. The chewed up ones are made when i forget to remove air bubbles with the back massager after pouring the cement / plaster. 

Some have a black glue wash while others have a layer of grey latex pant.



 ~ 



img571.imageshack.us/img571/1950/jerseypainted.jpg
img585.imageshack.us/img585/408/jerseypaintedtop.jpg


----------



## H.M.Gimlord

I'm back.  Not much progress on room #3 of Kobold Hall, but I did manage to get the pit installed.  Here are some pics showing how I did it.  BTW: this is how I did it in room #1 too.[sblock=The Pit]Cutting out the pit is easier if you lay the floor tiles first:






Then, you cut out the foam, but don't stop at the edges.  Undercut the floor tiles by at least 0.5 inches.  






This makes it easier install the pit as a walled structure all at once.



















[/sblock]As I've been doing this, I noticed that it's quite a challenge to get minis to stay on the stairs, so I created some scaffolds to help.[sblock=Stair platforms]My first try was pretty stable.  It was made from three tile layers offset by 0.125 inches:
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




This was a bit big, though, and didn't allow the mini to stand in the square just in front of the stairs.  The following design works well for that:










This design, though it holds up pretty well, sacrifices some stability.  For example:





[/sblock]


----------



## frankthedm

The stair-step looks great.


----------



## Holy Bovine

frankthedm said:


> Here are both types of casts that Progressive ice tray can make. The chewed up ones are made when i forget to remove air bubbles with the back massager after pouring the cement / plaster.




IMO those chewed up ones look battle damaged.  Which is awesome!  Makes me want to experiment with some pock marked dungeon walls.  My awesome wife got me 2 Hirst Arts molds (#60 Prison Tower and #260 Flagstone Floors) for my b-day!


----------



## frankthedm

Getting the air bubbles can be tricky.

Use some aggregate like say, clean Play-Sand and pebbles to make a plaster mix that is very thick. Thicker than a good chili, thinner than chunky peanut butter.

Slop the mix on top of the mold carelessly, using a tool rather than gravity to get the mold to fill.

Another way to get battle damage is to put broken pieces of cured plaster in the mold, then fill the mold with an aggregate thickened mix. EDIT: once set, flick some, but not all of the broken plaster away and you'll have a good rough broken look.

Either way DON'T shake or vibrate the mold too much since that will reduce the air bubbles you are _trying _ to get.


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## AzgrymnThePale

*Finding Cheaper Alternatives*

One thing I found that is a great place to find alternatives to miniature building is DM Scotty's page on Facebook. It is filled with gamers who come up with the cheapest alternatives to making great stuff that comes out really well most of the time. Check it out.

on Facebook... a group called:

DM Scotty's Crafts N' Games

One really cool thing I have found on the actual Hirst Arts site is that he explains in detail about designing your very own molds as well and how he does it, so he isn't just being an ass and trying to keep his secrets from anyone or anything, he is saying if anyone wants to do the work this is how, I respect that a great deal about that site. I'm contemplating the same thing right now, justifying paying for the molds. I have a $3,000 collection of Dwarven Forge and there is still plenty of things I would like to add, so I kind of want to create things myself, as well as possibly sell things. Which is another cool thing about Hirst Arts. You can sell the things you make, up to a point. If you are making a business out of it, you need to pay some royalties to the man, fair deal.


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## Vince Abbate

This is all you need
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCF-i5kmuwyV6N3xi5z1TElg


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