# D&d xp



## davethegame (Jan 30, 2009)

Hasn't D&D XP been going on since this morning? Other than an upload to Facebook or two, I haven't seen any updates on it. No threads here, no posts by any of the RPG Bloggers, nothing. You'd think that people were out there playing games and enjoying themselves, instead of working on reports to amuse me. What have we come to as gamers.


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2009)

davethegame said:


> Hasn't D&D XP been going on since this morning? Other than an upload to Facebook or two, I haven't seen any updates on it. No threads here, no posts by any of the RPG Bloggers, nothing. You'd think that people were out there playing games and enjoying themselves, instead of working on reports to amuse me. What have we come to as gamers.




People are slackin. Unless Mearls got ambushed the 2009 and beyond presentation was 5 hours ago


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## Jack99 (Jan 30, 2009)

Then go unslack him!


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Then go unslack him!




I am about 2000 miles too far to the West.


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## Jack99 (Jan 30, 2009)

Scott_Rouse said:


> I am about 2000 miles too far to the West.




In Denmark, everyone has cellphones!


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## Scott_Rouse (Jan 30, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> In Denmark, everyone has cellphones!




Lucky ducks. I have two cans with a string but it only goes from my room to the back yard 

Do you have indoor plumbing over there too?


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## exile (Jan 30, 2009)

Alright, since you asked so nicely. I'm at D&D Experience, and I'm having a blast. My "review", as it is, is extremely limited because I have not taken advantage of everything this relatively small con has to offer. I have played exclusively Living Forgotten Realms games. I managed to convince a nice guy named Frank to run one (BALD 1-1) unofficially on Wednesday night. Since then, I have played BALD 1-2 (facing off against an army of undead threatening to overrun Baldur's Gate), EAST 1-2 (rescuing halfing captives from gnoll slavers and exploring the lost maze of an ancient snake god), and CORM 1-2 (freeing a Cormyrean agent from the prison city of Wheloon). I'm looking forward to playing tons more over the next couple of days, especially SPEC 1-2 (the convention special LFR game- which I hear is pretty tough).

I can tell you that everything that I have heard about the high-level game, not sure what it is called, has been overwhelmingly positive. I've been too caught up in my own games to say anything about the delve events (which I have not really liked in the past), except that I do see some people playing them, and even thought about doing so myself. That said, my stomach won out, and I decided to eat instead.

Speaking of eating, the hotel food is good, not great, but not simple average, good. The rooms are clean and comfortable, and the staff is very friendly. I don't feel shunned at all like during the days of Gen Con in Milwaukee.

Any specific questions?

Chad


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## Kelon (Jan 30, 2009)

Hi,

had anybody heard some news about 2010 products? I would like to know some racial stats or powers of the phb II races.

Thanks in advance

Oliver


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## Zaukrie (Jan 30, 2009)

Plenty of minis news over at Hordelings. Including pictures of the worst imagining of an aboleth ever. Unbelievably bad. Horrible, and not in a creepy way.


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## Zaukrie (Jan 30, 2009)

Lots of good minis pictures on Hordelings too, especially the goblin.

If I were a product manager in WotC, I'd be disturbed by the fact no one is talking about XP here, and no one is talking about it on Gleeeeeemax.


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## Scribble (Jan 30, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> In Denmark, everyone has cellphones!




In Capitalist USA Cell Phones have YOU!*





*In Capitalist USA member can choose not to allow cel phone to have him by incurring a 175 dollar cancellation fee. Taxes and usage fees not included.


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## davethegame (Jan 30, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> Lots of good minis pictures on Hordelings too, especially the goblin.
> 
> If I were a product manager in WotC, I'd be disturbed by the fact no one is talking about XP here, and no one is talking about it on Gleeeeeemax.




They're just missing quality reporters, since most of them are in the DC area and not in Indiana.

Still hoping to hear about the new product presentation from yesterday...


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## Kelon (Jan 30, 2009)

On the wizards board are a few pieces of information. No enough. Where are the news hounds? Let them loose......!

In the december 2009 Planes Below, focus on elemental chaos.

Unofficial Compilation of all Confirmed Future Release Info - Page 10 - Wizards Community


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## Zaukrie (Jan 30, 2009)

pictures of the delve characaters on Hordelings. All from the PHB2 book....but I have no interest in squinting....


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## Phaezen (Jan 30, 2009)

And for those of you not interested in going over to Gleemax to have a looksee



			
				Ranadiel said:
			
		

> A short version of all of today's new updates. As a side note, does anyone happen to know anyplace where the delve char sheets have been posted yet? I'd like to take a look at them and see if there is any information that can be gotten from them.
> 
> Arcane Power
> -Familiar rules included, available for all arcane character(?), Source
> ...




Phaezen


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## Phaezen (Jan 30, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> pictures of the delve characaters on Hordelings. All from the PHB2 book....but I have no interest in squinting....




From what I can see.

*Deva Shaman

*_Class/race abilities:
_Astral Majesty (+1 to all defenses vs bloodied foes) -Race?
Astral Resistance (Resist necrotic & radiant - 6 each) -Race?
Memories of a thousand lifetimes - see back -Race?
Stalker SPirit Boon (any ally adjacent to spirit companion gains + to damage vs bloodied foe) - Class
Stalker Spirit (Can use spirit fangs and stalkers strike) - Class
Healing Spirit (can use healing spirits - see back) - Class

In the items there is a +1 Summer Growth Totem - assume totem is a implement?

*Goliath Barbarian

*_Class/Race abilities
_Powerfull Athlete (Roll athletics check twice use better) - Race
Stones Endurance (Race power - see back)
Rageblood Vigor - as per preview
Rampage (Once per round when you crit make a melee basic attack against any target in range)

*Gnome Bard

*_Class/race Abilities:_
Fey Origins -Race
Master Trickster (Can use Ghost Sound) - Race
Reactive Stealth - Race
Tricksters Cunning (+5 bonus to save against illusions) - Race
Fade Away (Can use Fade away Race power?) - Race?
Class abilities as per bard preview

*Tiefling Invoker* 

_Class/Race Abilities_
Channel Divinity (Preservers Rebuke or rebuke undead)
Covanent Manifestation (Slide an ally within 10 1 square when using a divine daily or encounter attack power)

Phaezen


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## Zaukrie (Jan 30, 2009)

I just realized if you click on the link above each picture you see it more blown up.


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## Phaezen (Jan 30, 2009)

Zaukrie said:


> I just realized if you click on the link above each picture you see it more blown up.




Power pages are still mostly blurry though.

Phaezen


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## davethegame (Jan 30, 2009)

Phaezen said:


> And for those of you not interested in going over to Gleemax to have a looksee




Thanks, Phaezen. I couldn't get Gleemax to load, and the suspense was killing me (and taking my stuff).


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## Nymrohd (Jan 30, 2009)

Btw is something wrong (more than usually) with gleemax lately? I get an error message on firefox that I am sure I have never seen before (Redirect Loop)


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## Vael (Jan 30, 2009)

Any news yet from the Q&A? I listened to the Radio Free Hommlett podcast, but I was hoping for more news.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jan 31, 2009)

What happened to taking all of the character sheets of PHB2 characters and scanning them so that we can dissect exactly what each of them do, months before the book actually comes out?


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## Cadfan (Jan 31, 2009)

They're scanned, actually.  At Hordelings.

Most of them don't tell us anything new, because they're third level characters of classes that have been previewed from levels 1 to 3.  You can get some information on the Shaman, the Deva, and the Goliath, if you look.


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## chaotix42 (Jan 31, 2009)

Thanks for the heads-up Cadfan! *screeching tires*

Looks like the barb lost that Rage Strike at-will...


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## Cadfan (Jan 31, 2009)

Or they didn't print it on the grounds that there's little reason to use it before level 5.

There's potentially some changes in the bard and barbarian, since they were playtests instead of previews.  I haven't gone over them with a fine toothed comb- the only thing I can say for sure is that the barbarian now appears to get his Con modifier to AC when wearing light armor.  That fits with comments WOTC has made about encouraging lighter armor for barbarians.


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## chaotix42 (Jan 31, 2009)

Cadfan said:
			
		

> Or they didn't print it on the grounds that there's little reason to use it before level 5.




Ohhhh yeah, forgot about that part! 

Shaman looks mighty nifty too...

About the AC -

+1 hide (+4 AC)
Con (+3 AC)
1/2 lvl (+1 AC)
= AC 18

Typo?


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## Cadfan (Jan 31, 2009)

Here's what I see for the Shaman: the basic shtick seems to be that the shaman's powers attack one targeted enemy, and then cause the shaman's spirit companion to give off some sort of effect.  For example, the shaman might cast a ranged spell on one target, and then until the shaman's next turn all enemies adjacent to the spirit companion grant combat advantage.  There is no restriction that requires that the enemies attacked be the same as the enemies incommoded by the spirit companion.  This lets the shaman sort of be in two places at once- he can cast a spell over here, and inflict an effect over there, all in the same action.  The shaman can also command the spirit companion to make attacks as well, but at least for this shaman most of the powers that do that are at wills.

Its possible that the spirit companion previews some of the rules for summoning.  Technically its not a summoned creature, its a conjuration, but the fact that it uses a single hit damage threshold instead of a set amount of hit points is one quick way to simplify damage for extra creatures created by spells.

I guess we'll know all the details on Monday.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jan 31, 2009)

chaotix42 said:


> Ohhhh yeah, forgot about that part!
> 
> Shaman looks mighty nifty too...
> 
> ...




No it's intelligence that they use for AC.


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## chaotix42 (Jan 31, 2009)

Sound analysis. Looks like the shaman sends his spirit companion in to work his leader mojo in melee, while the shaman himself hangs back in a less crowded area and uses his ranged powers. Me likes.


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## chaotix42 (Jan 31, 2009)

Kobold Avenger said:


> No it's intelligence that they use for AC.




???

+1 hide (+4 AC)
Int (+0 AC)
1/2 lvl (+1 AC)
= AC 15

Even bigger typo... if they used Int then why didn't they use Dex? The barb actually has a Dex bonus...


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## Oldtimer (Jan 31, 2009)

Cadfan said:


> They're scanned, actually.  At Hordelings.



Linky?


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## Phaezen (Jan 31, 2009)

Cadfan said:


> They're scanned, actually.  At Hordelings.
> 
> Most of them don't tell us anything new, because they're third level characters of classes that have been previewed from levels 1 to 3.  You can get some information on the Shaman, the Deva, and the Goliath, if you look.






Oldtimer said:


> Linky?




Ask and ye shall recieve:

Hordelings: Miniatures Enthusiasts -- 4th Edition Discussion: Delve Characters Players Handbook 2


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## Oldtimer (Jan 31, 2009)

Phaezen said:


> Ask and ye shall recieve:
> 
> Hordelings: Miniatures Enthusiasts -- 4th Edition Discussion: Delve Characters Players Handbook 2



Thanks!


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## Zaukrie (Jan 31, 2009)

RPG cards from the new minis (or some of them):

DDXP 2009 pictures from friends & fun photos on webshots


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## Kobold Avenger (Jan 31, 2009)

It seems like the Avenger was never actually scanned out of all those character sheets.


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## Shroomy (Jan 31, 2009)

They're some cool stuff in those scans, but I'm curious about the avenger. Did they have any at all, or is the avenger the warlord of the DDXP 2009?


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## Kobold Avenger (Jan 31, 2009)

It's hard to make out, but the Shaman can call a spirit companion as a minor action, and it has no hit points but can be targeted by ranged or melee attacks (so it's immune to close and area attacks), but if it takes more than 11 damage it disappears and the shaman takes 6 damage.  Where of course the shaman can simply call their spirit companion again as a minor action next round.


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## Vael (Jan 31, 2009)

I quite like what little I've gleaned from the scans. The Shaman looks cool. I've noticed the new "everyone will take feats", Expertise feats. Looks like a +1 to attack roles with the particular weapon/implement. So Weapon Expertise (Light Blades) will give a +1 bonus to attack with Light Blades. In addition, Barbarian at-wills now require two-handed weapons. 

Also, I think the pic of the Bard's sheet shows the Avenger next to it. If so, I'm intrigued, as the Avenger apparently has no Armour proficiencies (I can see the PC has the Leather Armour Proficiency feat), yet uses a weapon, as he's armed with a +1 Longspear as his primary weapon.


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## Shroomy (Jan 31, 2009)

Vael said:


> I quite like what little I've gleaned from the scans. The Shaman looks cool. I've noticed the new "everyone will take feats", Expertise feats. Looks like a +1 to attack roles with the particular weapon/implement. So Weapon Expertise (Light Blades) will give a +1 bonus to attack with Light Blades. In addition, Barbarian at-wills now require two-handed weapons.




Weapon expertise feats sound interesting.  I wonder if there is some sort of trade-off.


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## Dionysos (Jan 31, 2009)

I am hereby, perhaps uselessly, adding my voice to the howling throng that is clammoring for a picture of the Avenger character sheet.

Please?


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## Plane Sailing (Feb 1, 2009)

Interesting to see the Deva appears to be

+2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom

Goliath +2 Strength, +2 Con


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## Vael (Feb 1, 2009)

Avenger is up.

Fascinating. The Avenger seems to lack a bonus damage mechanic, deciding instead that he almost never misses, as the Avenger can pick a target and roll two attacks, picking the better.

I can't tell if WIS or DEX is the classes primary stat, this character has both at 16. I'm inclined to guess DEX, which seems odd, given that this Avenger is wielding a Longspear.


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## Hawke (Feb 1, 2009)

Dang, I wish the sheet was a bit clearer! Not complaining, but this class seems to be exactly what I've wanted from it...


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## Cadfan (Feb 1, 2009)

Wow.  Ok, I downloaded the image and enlarged it, and now I can read the powers without as much of a migraine.

I like it.  I really, really like it.  Not for any particularly deep reason- I like characters in lighter armor who fight in melee with physical prowess but who also use some degree of highly themed magic.  That's... basically this dude.  His shtick seems to be fighting one on one with a chosen enemy.  His special accuracy boosting power only works when no other enemies are adjacent to him, and he's loaded with powers that let him separate out one enemy.

I like that.  Its a nice way to do a striker job- abduct one poor orc and beat the bejeezus out of him.

Its kind of like an alternative paladin mark, thematically- the paladin marks an enemy so that the enemy will choose to fight the paladin and not the paladin's allies.  The avenger chooses an enemy and then drags that enemy away from the battle and forces him to fight one on one.  In a sort of weird way, this character can perform a bit of a defender role, simply by sliding, pushing, pulling, and teleporting his foes off into a corner alone where they have no choice but to fight him.


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## yesnomu (Feb 1, 2009)

On the other hand, the Avenger also gets a damage bonus when the enemy moves away from him, at least for this Censure option. Fascinating, a very defender-ish striker.

I think the lack of extra damage will be made up for from the double attack rolls (*wow*) when only next to one enemy and generally getting to use large weapons, like the Barb. I'm sure someone'll run the numbers soon, though.

Expertise feats-- huh. Poor Tieflings, Hellfire Blood used to be absolutely amazing. Now I'm not sure who'll want it. I really don't know about these.


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## Hawke (Feb 1, 2009)

I notice that the Invoker doesn't have the summon power chosen... bummer! Did anybody see anywhere if anybody from wotc confirmed the summoning mechanics a little bit further? 

Avenger I think shot up to the top of my class-from-phb-i-want-to-play-most list followed closely by Druid.


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## Cadfan (Feb 1, 2009)

The neatest thing about the Censure ability is that it makes for amusing fight scenes- this ridiculously dangerous duelist keeps dragging and teleporting some poor fool off and beating him mercilessly, and whenever he runs away, the beatings just get worse.


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## Cadfan (Feb 1, 2009)

Oh, and the Oath of Enmity subtly, but very meaningfully, rewards the use of low accuracy, high damage, high critical weapons.


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## Hawke (Feb 1, 2009)

Please, explain a bit here... I'm having a lot of trouble making out the details of it beyond the first few sentences... must be late and the old eyes are tired!


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## yesnomu (Feb 1, 2009)

Hawke said:


> Please, explain a bit here... I'm having a lot of trouble making out the details of it beyond the first few sentences... must be late and the old eyes are tired!



When your mark is the only enemy next to you, you can roll all melee attacks twice and take either result. You have a roughly 50% better chance to hit, so a +2 vs. a +3 isn't such a big deal. It's very, very nice.


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## Hawke (Feb 1, 2009)

Ah! So basically the Ranger picks short swords (+3 / 1d6) and the Avenger picks a  Longspear (+2 / 1d10) and they're closer to even. I'm eager to see a Twin Strike Short Sword ranger compared to Enmtiy Longspear Avenger.

(not because I think when we find out one is better at a specific task it means omgclasswin!1 but because I'm curious and it's fun)


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## Cadfan (Feb 1, 2009)

Give me a default AC and I'll get you an answer.

Lets say that we have some feats involved. Our level 1 Avenger is using an Executioner's Axe, because he listened to me and went for high damage and high criticals.  Our level 1 Ranger is using twin Bastard Swords. Both have 18 strength. Both are fighting a monster with AC 15. The Ranger is using Twin Strike, and the Avenger is using something that doesn't have an effect on accuracy or damage (either one of the previewed at wills will not modify expected damage, though they do provide positioning benefits).

The Ranger has +7 attack, will deal 1d10 on a hit, and +1d6 if he hits at least once. He gets two attacks.

The Avenger has +6 attack, will deal 1d12+4, Brutal 2, High Crit on a hit, and he gets to pick the better of two attack rolls.

The Ranger's expected damage, ignoring criticals, is .65*5.5 + .65*5.5 + (1-.35*.35)*3.5 = 3.575 + 3.575 + 3.07125 = 10.22125. He also could have attacked two enemies with this at will, if he chose.

The Avenger's expected damage, ignoring criticals, is (1-.4*.4)*11.5 = 9.66. He also gets some positioning advantage.

Lets say we add in critical hits... give me a moment and I'll edit...

The Ranger's expected damage, including criticals, is .6*5.5 + .6*5.5 + .05*10 + .05*10 + (1-.4*.4)*3.5 + (1-.95*.95)*6 = 3.3 + 3.3 + .5 + .5 + 2.94 + .585 = 11.125

The Avenger's expected damage, including criticals, is (1-.45*.45)*11.5 + (1-.95*.95)*19 = 9.17125 + 1.8525 = 11.02375.

Darn close, actually.  Right now the Ranger has more opportunity to boost his damage (weapon focus works twice for him, once per sword, and he can boost the die of his quarry damage), but who knows what the Avenger gets for feats.

The Ranger is another class that rewards critical hits, for the record.  Since bonus dice are maximized, and since it gets two attack rolls.


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## fba827 (Feb 1, 2009)

Hawke said:


> I notice that the Invoker doesn't have the summon power chosen... bummer!




I don't think they would have picked it for this pregen character -- I have a feeling that describing the summoning keyword will take a paragraph, given they are limited to just two sides of a page they probably went for the more concise power choices.



Hawke said:


> Please, explain a bit here... I'm having a lot of trouble making out the details of it beyond the first few sentences... must be late and the old eyes are tired!




Yeah, it does hurt my eyes too.  But here are a couple bits I could see.

  * The attacks were (at least the powers chosen for this pregen avenger) all weapon vs ac types.

  * A bonus to AC similar to the swordmage's with some restrictions

  * The oath of enmity - though i could not read most of it - seemed to be the hardcore avenger defining feature.. basically the person they are calling out as the person they are going to "mess up" in the name of their faith.

  * There were two channel divinity feats.  One was anti undead.  And the other lets an ally attacking your oath target get a reroll on the attack.

  * (something) of Pursuit  Avenger Attack 1 at-will. some damage and shift

  * Overwhelming Sacrifice Avenger Attack 1 at-will some damage and shift/slide to switch places with target

  * Oath of Enmity Avenger Feature  encounter (special) minor action

  * Furious Assault  Halforc racial power (encounter; free action when you hit an enemy it deals extra damage and (something)

  * whirlwind charge Avenger attack 1 (encounter) can use in place of a melee basic attack when charging and gain bonus to ac against OAs while charging to target

  * R(something) Escape  Avenger Utility 2  encounter. teleport when enemy (something)

  * Sequestering Strike  Avenger Attack 3 encounter. damage and you and target teleport away from the fray

  * Aspect of Might Avenger Attack 1 Daily it has a hit/miss damage but also an effect to grant bonus to athletics checks, speed, and damage rolls until the end of the encounter


Note I am treating this like preview/scoop material.  So just trying to keep it to basic concept of the powers (not mentioning specific numbers/etc); but if this somehow violates the "don't post WotC material wholecloth" then mods are free to edit my post.

Edit: It's late and I'm too tired to make this pretty but later i may slightly reformat the above and fix some of my spelling mistakes


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## Kobold Avenger (Feb 1, 2009)

I wonder how the Avenger's AC will compare to the Swordmage which has potentially the highest AC (Hide prof + Hide Specialization + maxed out int + Coronal Guard)...


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## Nymrohd (Feb 1, 2009)

Well I did some number crunching. When you hit on a roll of 7 or higher to a roll of 15 or higher oath of enmity is the equivalent of a +4-+5 attack bonus. Outside that range it does drop ofc. Yet considering that this is the range where your chances to hit should be, I think it is quite the amazing class feature.


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## SoulStorm (Feb 1, 2009)

How long before someone makes a paragon multiclassed avenger/ranger with twin strike?


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## yesnomu (Feb 1, 2009)

SoulStorm said:


> How long before someone makes a paragon multiclassed avenger/ranger with twin strike?



Probably not long. Since their AC will be garbage (avengers need a hand free) and half their attacks will use only one weapon, I think it's fair enough.


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## Nymrohd (Feb 1, 2009)

Thing is, while the avenger's trick (from what little we know) is unique and seems fun, it doesn't play well with most any other melee. The rogue needs combat advantage, the fighter and the warlord mostly give boni? to adjacent allies.


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## Campbell (Feb 1, 2009)

Interestingly enough, it looks like Avengers also have Defender style hp, but Leader/Striker style surges.


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## Remathilis (Feb 1, 2009)

Is it possible an avenger is not, in fact, a striker but a defender? Something akin to an... "anti"-paladin? 

I might be wrong, but they could the bastard offspring of a swordmage (def) and paladin (def).


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## Cadfan (Feb 1, 2009)

Nymrohd said:


> Thing is, while the avenger's trick (from what little we know) is unique and seems fun, it doesn't play well with most any other melee. The rogue needs combat advantage, the fighter and the warlord mostly give boni? to adjacent allies.



Remember, you can be adjacent to your own allies, and the monster can be adjacent to your own allies.  You just can't be adjacent to more than one monster.


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## Nymrohd (Feb 1, 2009)

Cadfan said:


> Remember, you can be adjacent to your own allies, and the monster can be adjacent to your own allies.  You just can't be adjacent to more than one monster.




Ah I misunderstood, thought it said no other ally can be adjacent to the monster. Well I guess the Avenger is like a main assist then.


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## Shroomy (Feb 1, 2009)

Man, the Avenger doesn't seem to disappoint.  I can't wait for the PHB2 to come out.


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## Phaezen (Feb 1, 2009)

Shroomy said:


> Man, the Avenger doesn't seem to disappoint.  I can't wait for the PHB2 to come out.




PHB2 is going to kick 4e into a higher level.  Is it March yet?

Phaezen


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## TarionzCousin (Feb 1, 2009)

Phaezen said:


> PHB2 is going to kick 4e into a higher level.  Is it March yet?



Yes. We all have PHB2 and love it. Somehow, you got left behind in a time warp. 

Didn't Mr. Mearls say that PHB2 was the best work he'd ever done, or something like that?


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## Kobold Avenger (Feb 1, 2009)

Remathilis said:


> Is it possible an avenger is not, in fact, a striker but a defender?



No, they have no standard marking ability.  The ability to mark is an essential part of a defender, much like the ability to heal is an essential part of a leader.


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## Cadfan (Feb 1, 2009)

More to the point, they can't really do the defender role, and are actually very dependent on having a defender in the party to stop monsters from double teaming them and ruining their Oath bonus.


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## Vael (Feb 1, 2009)

Any other news from DnDXP yet? There was a mention there was a 2 hour Q&A session, what did it cover?


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## Kobold Avenger (Feb 1, 2009)

I'm guessing there's a character sheet for a Shifter Druid there.  Though we generally know what Shifters and Druids do by now.


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## Nymrohd (Feb 1, 2009)

What they do is what in mmorpgs is called a main assist. While the defender keeps the majority of the mobs locked down in place with the help of the controllers, the main assist pulls away the mobs one by one so they can be focus fired. Avenger seems to be able to do so perfectly, moreso since he has quasi-defender skill in locking a mob down instead of just pulling.

By the way doesn't he look a bit like a sohei?


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 1, 2009)

I just got back from D&DXP. Played twice in the Delve (source for the new races / classes). I have sheets for the half-orc avenger, warforged warden, and deva shaman. If I don't collapse in exhaustion in the next 10 mins, I'll scan 'em in.

Other PCs included the shifter druid (nothing new that I can recall), goliath barbarian, gnome bard, tiefling invoker, and elf sorcerer.

Based on the games I played in and what I heard of conversation, the half-orc avenger ("Mord of Kord") was by far the most popular PC. Some people thought some of the avenger's powers were "broken"... but that's what people thought about the (3e) mystic theurge when it first came out, so who knows.


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 1, 2009)

Okay, here's the scans. This post: the half-orc avenger.


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 1, 2009)

The deva shaman. Please excuse the pencil marks on this scan (and the next one).


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 1, 2009)

The warforged warden. Again, please excuse the pencil marks.


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## Plane Sailing (Feb 2, 2009)

Cadfan said:


> The neatest thing about the Censure ability is that it makes for amusing fight scenes- this ridiculously dangerous duelist keeps dragging and teleporting some poor fool off and beating him mercilessly, and whenever he runs away, the beatings just get worse.




I have to say this whole image (part of the teleportaphilia which is throughout 4e) completely puts me off the class.

I look for classes that represent the classic fantasy archetypes, and I see something like this and just raise my eyebrows.


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## Beckett (Feb 2, 2009)

Joshua Randall said:


> Okay, here's the scans. This post: the half-orc avenger.




Thank you. I was going blind trying to read the earlier pics of this one. It does look interesting; I look forward to seeing it in play.


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## Shroomy (Feb 2, 2009)

Joshua Randall said:


> Based on the games I played in and what I heard of conversation, the half-orc avenger ("Mord of Kord") was by far the most popular PC. Some people thought some of the avenger's powers were "broken"... but that's what people thought about the (3e) mystic theurge when it first came out, so who knows.




I didn't do any indepth analysis, but the avenger's damage output seems about on par with a dual wielding ranger, which I think is the apt comparison.  _Aspect of Might_ is a pretty good daily (3W+Wis+Dex and those effects...whistle), but I'm not sure its grossly better than the rangers level 1 dailies.


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## Rechan (Feb 2, 2009)

Since they don't do extra damage, I wonder how they compare. Especially when you put an Avenger next to a Barbarian, who's powers just _do more damage_ on average.

Of course, the second build might be completely radical.


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## Shroomy (Feb 2, 2009)

Rechan said:


> Since they don't do extra damage, I wonder how they compare. Especially when you put an Avenger next to a Barbarian, who's powers just _do more damage_ on average.
> 
> Of course, the second build might be completely radical.




I thought I saw someone, somewhere who figured out that its increased chances to hit its target produced an overall higher damage output.  Now I have to remember where I saw that.


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## Rechan (Feb 2, 2009)

Shroomy said:


> I thought I saw someone, somewhere who figured out that its increased chances to hit its target produced an overall higher damage output.  Now I have to remember where I saw that.






While you're looking for it, go ahead and jump into that snake pit.


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## Rechan (Feb 2, 2009)

Mmm. The Avenger makes me love monsters that drag PCs to them to monch on. I can see that very effective; the Avenger nabs his target, and the other guy draaaags him away, while his target runs free.


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## Cadfan (Feb 2, 2009)

Shroomy said:


> I thought I saw someone, somewhere who figured out that its increased chances to hit its target produced an overall higher damage output. Now I have to remember where I saw that.



Are you thinking of me, in this thread?

I didn't get an overall higher damage output, I got one that was on par with the Ranger when both characters had superior weapons.  It was just a quick comparison that included critical hits but only assumed level 1 characters and an AC 15 opponent.


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## Rechan (Feb 2, 2009)

The Avenger should come with his own  Ennio Morricone orchestrated theme music.


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## tsadkiel (Feb 2, 2009)

Kobold Avenger said:


> I'm guessing there's a character sheet for a Shifter Druid there.  Though we generally know what Shifters and Druids do by now.




That's actually the one sheet I wanted to see.  Shifters are a core race in my Gothic Pulp campaign, and I wanted to know how they'd changed.


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## Black Flame Zealot (Feb 2, 2009)

Just a couple of comments before I head to bed, and off to the next show...

We'll have all the PH2 characters available again this weekend at New York Comic Con in the Delve area, so if you're nearby, stop in to play. If you just want to game, we've worked with the show to offer a weekend-long gaming badge for $15. 

We'll also have the full 2-page splash for the avenger there, which lists the all the standard stuff - hit points, defenses, class features, etc. in full. It should give you a much better picture of the class and what it does. (For what little it's worth, the avenger is my favorite PH2 class and I'm making one for my next character.)

I think I made a typo on the shaman's AC. Looks like it should be 18, not 17. I'll have it fixed soon enough.


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## darjr (Feb 3, 2009)

Other than Radio Free Hommlet, are there any other podcasts covering events at DDXP?


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## Rechan (Feb 3, 2009)

Someone, please get me access to the shifter druid character sheet. I want to know what the shifter's changes are/their non-ability stat, non-racial power bonuses are.


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## LightPhoenix (Feb 4, 2009)

Rechan said:


> Someone, please get me access to the shifter druid character sheet. I want to know what the shifter's changes are/their non-ability stat, non-racial power bonuses are.




I'll be there on Saturday, but not for gaming, so I'll see what I can do.  No promises though.


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## yesnomu (Feb 4, 2009)

Black Flame Zealot said:


> I think I made a typo on the shaman's AC. Looks like it should be 18, not 17. I'll have it fixed soon enough.



Looks right as-is (+1 leather = +3, +1 1/2 level, +3 Int = 17). Did you mean the Barb? If he adds Con to AC, as has been speculated, he would have AC 18 and his sheet has a typo.


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## charlesatan (Feb 4, 2009)

yesnomu said:


> Looks right as-is (+1 leather = +3, +1 1/2 level, +3 Int = 17). Did you mean the Barb? If he adds Con to AC, as has been speculated, he would have AC 18 and his sheet has a typo.




The Barbarian looks like he adds Con to his damage as long as he's not wearing Heavy Armor.


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## capn_frank (Feb 4, 2009)

I like the fact that WOTC is creating different characters for the different events.
None of these are the same as the 5 for the PH2 Worldwide D&D Game Day coming in March.

Cap'n Frank


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## Ktulu (Feb 4, 2009)

Interesting on the Barbarian.  In the article about playtest in December, they suggested the Barbarian would get a change to his AC, so as not to rely on heavier armors.

Checking out his AC, he's got a 17 (1 from level, 4 from +1 hide armor, and +1 dex).  That adds up to 16.  It doesn't appear that the Barb gets his secondary stat to AC like the other primal classes have.

The other threads have talked about weapon expertise, but I wonder if the +1 to attack doesn't come from the great weapon prowess of the goliath, and that weapon expertise (in keeping with 3.x naming conventions) = a bonus to AC when weilding a chosen weapon type.

Just speculations.  I wish it was march.


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## darjr (Feb 4, 2009)

Speaking of the pregens. I'm kinda liking them.

It would be rather nice if the CB could generate something very similar. I'm of the mind that a 'form' like character sheet is a bit overkill for CB characters.


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## Shemeska (Feb 5, 2009)

Here was one bit of info from over on Gleemax that was mentioned at D&Dxp 



> Will we be getting the virtual tabletop?
> * Mearls: We're still focusing on the Character Builder, and perfecting it. We still don't have any scheduling information for other products




Read into that as you will I suppose.


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## capn_frank (Feb 5, 2009)

I got some more info on the PH2 Worldwide D&D Game Day pregens, including their Paragon Path Names - 

Level 11
Balasar of Bahamut - Male Dragonborn Paladin (Faithful Shield)
Ilivarra - Female Drow Avenger (Zealous Assassin)
Markaria - Female Tiefling Invoker (Blightspeaker)
Roswyn - Female Gnome Bard (Summer Rhymer)
Squeaks - Warforged Barbarian (Frenzied Berserker)


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## thecasualoblivion (Feb 5, 2009)

capn_frank said:


> I got some more info on the PH2 Worldwide D&D Game Day pregens, including their Paragon Path Names -
> 
> Level 11
> Balasar of Bahamut - Male Dragonborn Paladin (Faithful Shield)
> ...




Between this snip and the D&DXP characters, anyone else getting a strong suspicion that Warforged are in PHB II?


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## drothgery (Feb 5, 2009)

thecasualoblivion said:


> Between this snip and the D&DXP characters, anyone else getting a strong suspicion that Warforged are in PHB II?




Since the PHB2 previews and cross-referencing other materials has already given the list of PHB2 races (and warforged aren't on it), and the D&DI preview warforged said straight out it was an Eberron Player's Guide preview, I'm thinking no.


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## emperor799 (Feb 5, 2009)

drothgery said:


> ...the D&DI preview warforged said straight out it was an Eberron Player's Guide preview...




Where does it say that?

The Warforged, Gnoll, and Minotaur articles form Dragon Magazine are the full racial writeups for 4e; they _aren't_ previews or playtests.


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## thecasualoblivion (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm just saying that the Warforged race was/is featured in the two major previews for PHB2. Who's to say its not a late addition, due to player interest?


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## emperor799 (Feb 6, 2009)

thecasualoblivion said:


> I'm just saying that the Warforged race was/is featured in the two major previews for PHB2. Who's to say its not a late addition, due to player interest?




Just so you understand, WotC has specifically said that they aren't interested in double-printing material. Dragon content is official 4e content and they've said that non-preview/playtest articles are official finalized 4e content. If you see the Warforged article in a physical product at all, it would be Dragon Annual this fall. As far as a couple pregens popping up, it may be that Chris Sims makes the pregens, something I find somewhat likely given that the individual Warforged article was posted along with 2 pregens. Note that the delve pregens also included Elf and I doubt they'll be reprinted in PH2 and the Gameday pregen include Dragonborn and Drow and I doubt they'll be reprinted in PH2.


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## emperor799 (Feb 6, 2009)

Has anyone seen readable pictures of the first two pages of Avenger from the Product Q&A? I didn't get a chance to write everything down, and I'd like to start planning my character.


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## Rechan (Feb 6, 2009)

emperor799 said:


> Just so you understand, WotC has specifically said that they aren't interested in double-printing material. Dragon content is official 4e content and they've said that non-preview/playtest articles are official finalized 4e content. If you see the Warforged article in a physical product at all, it would be Dragon Annual this fall.



I can guarantee that the Warforged stuff will be in the Eberron Player's Guide.

The components stuff will be int eh Magic Items section, the paragon paths will be in another section, and the racial stats will be in the race section, so it won't be the full article in its entirety, but all the information _will_ be in the EPG, mark my words. 

Because if it's _not_, there is going to be hell to pay.


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## Shroomy (Feb 7, 2009)

Rechan said:


> I can guarantee that the Warforged stuff will be in the Eberron Player's Guide.
> 
> The components stuff will be int eh Magic Items section, the paragon paths will be in another section, and the racial stats will be in the race section, so it won't be the full article in its entirety, but all the information _will_ be in the EPG, mark my words.
> 
> Because if it's _not_, there is going to be hell to pay.




Yep, my guess is that the warforged and the dopplegangers will be the two races in the PG, but I wouldn't be surprised if the kalashtar actually make the cut.  It wouldn't be too hard to re-create the race, even without access to the full psionic rules.


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## LightPhoenix (Feb 8, 2009)

Rechan said:


> Someone, please get me access to the shifter druid character sheet. I want to know what the shifter's changes are/their non-ability stat, non-racial power bonuses are.




Are you still looking for this Rechan?  I have a picture snapped of it on my camera, and I'll upload it here if you still are.


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## tsadkiel (Feb 8, 2009)

LightPhoenix said:


> Are you still looking for this Rechan?  I have a picture snapped of it on my camera, and I'll upload it here if you still are.



 I'm not Rechan, but I'd like to see it.


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## emperor799 (Feb 8, 2009)

tsadkiel said:


> I'm not Rechan, but I'd like to see it.




You might want to share your interest here:

D&D Experience -- Goodbye! - Wizards Community


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