# Fighting a Red Dragon



## Graybeard (Nov 24, 2008)

Hi All,

My DM has just informed me that next session (Wednesday) my PC will be fighting a red Dragon for control of a very powerful organization. Having control of this organization will be beneficial in helping our group defeat a group of 5 very (epic level) powerful women and their minions. 

My PC is a Dwarf Sorcerer and has just attained level 17. I need to pick a 7th and 8th level spell. I was thinking of the spell Energy Immunity to help against the dragons breath weapon. The spells I am considering are:

7th:  Limited Wish; Energy Immunity; Summon Aspect of Bahamut; Control Weather

8th:  Ghostform; Polymorph Any Object; Superior Invisibility; Polar Ray

Any ideas or suggestions?

thanks,


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## Runestar (Nov 24, 2008)

Spell immunity really only works if you don't expect the DM to try and outguess your party (eg: he knows you will all load up on fire protection spells, so he finds ways of working around it, such as giving the dragon breath-substitution spells or something). In the same vein, he may expect your party to try and take advantage of his cold vulnerability, and counter this with a source of cold resistance. 

Limited wish can be useful. Get within melee range of the dragon and use it to replicate a greater geas...


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## StreamOfTheSky (Nov 24, 2008)

I'll check Spell Compendium.

7:
Avasculate: A nasty way to start a fight.  Reduces the foe to half hp AND stuns him for a round if he fails a fort save (he loses the hp regardless).  This is an evil spell, if it matters.
Stun Ray: Don't roll a 1 on the ranged touch attack and stun the target for 1d4 +1 rounds, or 1 round if it makes the fort save.  Dragon will likely make the save.  Still worth it if you have a greater metamagic rod of extend...

8: Not much of use...
Avascular Mass: Just like Avasculate, but also creates an effect similar to the web spell from the target creature outwards.  Also an evil spell, if it matters.


You listed some other good ones.  Personally, I'd take Poly Any Object, it's a great pre-battle buff.  And works just as nice on your familiar, if you have one.  For level 7, I'd say Limited Wish, Energy Immunity, Stun Ray, or Avasculate would be best.  I don't know how strong the dragon's breath weapon is, do you think you need more than resistance 30 to survive it?  Even if not, could you get Energy Immunity on a scroll instead of as a spell known?  The dragon may just use an energy sub. breath weapon anyway.


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## Runestar (Nov 24, 2008)

Make sure you have greater dispelling as well. The massive amount of buffs available to a dragon makes any sort of meaningful discussion next to impossible, IMO, since there is basically a counter to every problem (and a counter to that counter, and so on and so forth). 

For instance, Scintillating Scales and/or Ray Deflection help protect against a poor touch AC. 5 lvs of abjurant champion and/or practiced spellcaster make up for the dragon's normally crap (relative to its cr) caster lv (which in turn makes dispelling more tricky, and spells like blasphemy more deadly). And if it opts to access maneuvers via martial study feats or lvs in martial adept classes...

Limited wish can be useful as you can use it to give the dragon -7 to its next saving throw, to help you force through a key spell (given their good saves).


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## Shin Okada (Nov 24, 2008)

As already mentioned. Dispelling will be very, very important. Having Blindsight or True Seeing (either as your spells known or items) may help you targeting the dragon when it uses Mirror Image or Greater Mirror Image. When you can't distinguish those images from the real dragon, it becomes very hard to de-buff him down. Buying some scrolls of Mordenkeinen's Disjunction could be a good idea, too.

If your DM is using Draconomicon, you would better expect the dragon to have SR equal to it's number or HDs or higher. That means, 31+ for CR 21 Very Old Red Dragon. You would better have spells like Assay Spell Resistance and/or Attack Spells which ignore SR, say, Orb spells or Acid Storm.

Once you de-buff him down, Wingbind (L4) works very well against a flying dragon, especially when you have Heighten Spell feat. Ref is likely to be the lowest save for a true dragon.


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## irdeggman (Nov 24, 2008)

Graybeard said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My DM has just informed me that next session (Wednesday) *my PC* will be fighting a red Dragon for control of a very powerful organization. Having control of this organization will be beneficial in helping our group defeat a group of 5 very (epic level) powerful women and their minions.




Is this going to be a on-on-one encounter or is your PC part of a team?

If it is one-on-one, you are most likely overpowered by the dragon and will lose regardless of anything you can do.

A single dwarf sorcerer will almost always lose to a dragon. You need warrior types to help out or you will be toast here.

Dragons are almost never intended to be an appropriate encounter for a single PC. They are competant in both physical combat and spell casting.


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## Runestar (Nov 24, 2008)

I think you underestimate the capabilities of a fully prepared high lv wizard, but I believe it will be a party effort here.


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## Shin Okada (Nov 24, 2008)

Do you have a cleric in your party? Generally speaking, cleric is better at casting protective spells. So you would better discuss with your comrade cleric about defensive measures. You don't need to spend your precious spells known for something your friend cleric can cover.


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## Thanee (Nov 24, 2008)

Graybeard said:


> 7th:  Limited Wish; Energy Immunity; Summon Aspect of Bahamut; Control Weather




You are 17th level and do not know _Limited Wish_ yet? 

Bye
Thanee


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## roguerouge (Nov 24, 2008)

Energy Immunity as a high level sorcerer rocks. In 3.0, my guy had immunities to all five going, along with mind blank, undetectable alignment and a borrowed death ward. Nigh immunity to enchantment, divination, evocation, and necromancy? Yes, please!


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## Starbuck_II (Nov 24, 2008)

Have you considered Shivering Touch? Dragons without Dex are helpless. 
"I can has Coup De Gra time, yes?"


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## Thanee (Nov 24, 2008)

That would be a bit anti-climatic, though. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Graybeard (Nov 24, 2008)

Thanks for all the replies so far.

My DM has informed me it is to be a one on one encounter. The dragon is either a mature adult or an old dragon. All he has said is that the dragon is about 400 yrs old give or take a couple of decades. 

My current 2 7th level spells known are Greater Teleport and Aspect of a Silver Dragon (a variation of the spell Aspect of the Platinum Dragon from Dragon Magic). I do have Greater Dispel, Greater Invis., and Displacement and my saves aren't too bad since I have the spell Superior Resistance (my DM allowed it as a self only spell). I have a rod of lesser empower and a rod of energy sub (cold). 

Hope this helps.


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## Iku Rex (Nov 24, 2008)

It's hard to offer specific advice for the fight when you don't tell us more about your character (ability scores, spells, feats, items).

Generic suggestions:

lv7:  
Limited Wish is the obvious choice. 

Elemental Body (SpC) is superior to Energy Immunity (SpC) if you just want immunity to the fire breath. Watch out for the "made of fire" thing though. It could mess with invisibility.

lv8: Superior Invisibility is probably your best bet. The dragon may have True Seeing, so make sure to hit it with Greater Dispelling.

Greater Arcane Fusion (CMag) would come in handy.

Normally I'd also suggest Irresistible Dance, but I'm not sure you can capitalize on the dragon's vulnerability the same way a party could. It also requires a touch attack, which is risky.


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## Starbuck_II (Nov 24, 2008)

Iku Rex said:


> Normally I'd also suggest Irresistible Dance, but I'm not sure you can capitalize on the dragon's vulnerability the same way a party could. It also requires a touch attack, which is risky.



 He could get a scroll of Spectral hand to touch the Dragon for him.


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## Graybeard (Nov 24, 2008)

Starbuck_II, which book is Shivering Touch from?

Ability scores including items:
STR  10; DEX 14; CON 18; INT 16; WIS 10; CHA 24

Feats:  Extend Spell; Draconic Heritage (Silver); Draconic Arcane Grace; 
          Draconic Legacy; Draconic Power; Draconic Resistance.

Other abilities gained from events in the campaign:

         See invisible (1 round per level)
         Arcane Sight (1 round per level)
         Clairaudience/Clairvoyance (1 round per level)

These are activated via a DC against a special skill unique to my PC.

Spells Known:

0 level: Light, Mage Hand, Mending, Open\Close, Prestidigitation, Read Magic, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Arcane Mark

1st level: Lesser Orb of Cold, Identify, Grease, Lesser Orb of Sound, Magic Missile,


2nd level: Blindness/Deafness, Melf’s Acid Arrow, Resist Energy, Scorching Ray, See Invisibility

3rd level: Dispel Magic, Lightning Bolt, Displacement, Fireball

4th level: Dim Door, Greater Invisibility, Polymorph, Orb of Cold

5th level: Break Enchantment, Feeblemind, Cacophonic Burst, Baleful Polymorph,                            

6th level: Greater Dispel Magic, Superior Resistance, Disintegrate

7th level: Greater Teleport, Aspect of the Silver Dragon

8th level: Summon Monster VIII


Saves:  Fort  15; REF 13; WILL 16

Hope this helps. Thanks for all the suggestions thus far. I'm looking forward to this encounter. Win or lose, it will be memorable.

Graybeard


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## StreamOfTheSky (Nov 24, 2008)

Do you have any general plans on how you would go about winning?  Direct damage?  Pound out save-or-loses till it rolls poorly? Battlefield Control doesn't look like an option for you.  Really, without the means to fight it from another plane of existence (like going ethereal + Transdimensional Spell feat), I don't see how you can survive a one-on-one.  The mature red dragon is CR 18, old is CR 20.  That is for a four person party, and at the "high end" of the CR scale.  You have a lot of offensive spells that rely on the foe failing a fortitude save (blindness/deafness, baleful poly, disintegrate) to be meaningful at all or even work, with DC 17-25.  The red dragon will have a fort save of +20 or +23, assuming he does not buff it further.  These spells will be worthless.

It's breath attack will do 12 or 14d10, which will probably take off a third your health even if you save.  It just doesn't look like good odds.

Someone suggested Shivering Touch, which would basically auto-win the fight (it does 3d6 dex *damage*, not a penalty like ray of enfeeblement).  I didn't because a) it's a really broken spell and b) I was assuming you weren't able to replace any of your current spells.  If your DM doesn't mind it, though, it's in Frostburn, and I suppose you could get it on a scroll even if you aren't allowed to re-do your spells known.


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## Graybeard (Nov 24, 2008)

Shivering Touch does 3d6 Dex damage? That's pretty good. I doubt my DM would allow it but I can ask. I don't have that book handy at the moment. What level is it? If it is 6th or lower, I can replicate it using Limited Wish (which it looks like I will take for versatility). 

One option I was considering is using my spell Aspect of a Silver Dragon to turn into an adult Silver dragon. I would gain the STR, DEX, and CON of the dragon along with breath weapon, +110 HP, frightful presence, natural armor, attacks, etc. I would, however, lose spellcasting ability. That is the main drawback to that plan.  

Graybeard


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## Starbuck_II (Nov 24, 2008)

Graybeard said:


> Starbuck_II, which book is Shivering Touch from?




Frostburn. Lesser Shivering Touch does 1d6 dex damage. Shivering Touch does 3d6.
If need scrolls of it:
Cheaper to use 2-3 lesser scrolls.

What magic items do you have? They may help.

Geez, did you really say Mature or old?
300+ hps...this will be a long battle. He will have between 14-16 Reflex save so he'll fail below 50% against you I think depending on your DC.
SR about 23-24. So at 17th caster you can ignore it, 70% of time.

He seems to be huge or gargantuan: 


> 2nd:  Resist Energy
> 
> 3rd level:  Displacement,
> 
> 4th level: Greater Invisibility, Polymorph,



Resist energy while useful won't be as good as a Protection from energy spell versus 1 big breath attack.

Since dragons get spellcasting he is likely to have see invisibility, but Displacement won't be nullified.
That will help to protect you from being pounded.

If your blasting spells don't work for some reason (Control spells like grease won't be as useful because he can fly), could try melee.

Ray of Enfeeblement would be good here.

If you must go melee him:
Cast Displacement, Resist fire, if it went down Superior Resistance should be up from time you wake up (a given I'd think), and then go Aspect ofr Silver Dragon


> 8th level: Summon Monster VIII



Idea:
If you get a round before combat cast Summon Monster VIII to summon 1d41+1 Huge Monstrous Spiders.

Have all of them use their web attack (keep them spead out so he can't kill them with break weapon) to entangle the dragon multiple times: their effects should overlap.

But this means he will be penalized until he breaks free of each single webbing (he will make Str check, but he waste his action if he does). Example, if you summon 4 spiders: they each web him.

He has 4 webs on him: he has to seperately break each one or stays entangled.
Entangle lowers his attack bonus, Dex bonus (thus his Reflex Saves), etc. 

The spiders will die in a single breath attack so keep them far away from each over as possible so he can kill 1 at a time at most.
You could send the spiders to aid another you (raise your attack or defense) or attack the Dragon (but he will only fail poison DC on a low roll).

Idea 2:
Sting ray (2nd level in Spell Compendruim) spell lowers his AC and restrict him to a standard action or move each round: this will lower his AC if you decide to go melee or ray spell him.

Idea 3:
Shadow Spray (2nd level in Spell Compendruim)- If he fails save deals 4 Str danage and dazes for 1 round: Either way, Each round the area gets hit again until duration up.
Now, now backback if he will make save and move more than likely (small chance he will fail DC). But hey, useful if you can keep him from moving.

Idea 4:
Earthbind spell blocks his ability to fly. Granted, he'd need a lower save to fail. Something like Limited Wish to lower his saves by 7 or something.
Then suround him and him his area with Shadow Spray...he won't be able to move through you guys or fly...
He will just take the beating.

Idea 5:
Scale Weakening lowers his Natural armor (no save) by 1/3 levels (max 5)so you'd lower it by 5. This will be useful to cast before fighting him in dragon form.

Idea 6;
Can a weapon: cast infernal Wounds on the weapon: smack the dragon. He bleeds 2 hp/round, he needs a cure spell, the Heal spel, or the Heal skill to stop the bleeding.

Idea 7: Ray of Dizziness: he can take a move or standard action only (no save). Meaning he can't full attack also. 

Idea 8:
Antidragon Aura (3rd level spell): protects you from dragons: luck bonus to AC and Saves from Dragons (spell, fear affect, Breeath, etc)

Idea 9: 
Array Spell resistance: Gives you bonus to SR checks.

Idea 10: 
Use Limited wish to emulate the 2nd level Druid spell Blinding Spittle (no save).

Idea 11:
Aura of Evasion: Gain Evasion versus Breath weapon. Useful.

Idea 12:
Stun Ray (7th level spell): Save succeed =Stunned 1 round, fail 1d4+1 rounds.

Idea 13:
Hide from Dragons is like Invisibility (not Greater, so attacking ruins it) to Dragons: they cannot by any means detect you.


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## Iku Rex (Nov 24, 2008)

My thoughts: 

Level 7 spell: *Arcane Spellsurge *(DragMagic)

No question about it.

You can cast it as a swift action (dragonblood), and once you do, you'll almost double your firepower. Spells with a casting time of a standard action become swift actions. Spells with a casting time of 1 full round (including metamagiced spells, for a sorcerer) become standard actions.

(Note that according to the FAQ, a sorcerer has to use a full-round action to apply a metamagic feat with a rod. This means that you can use your rods to increase a spell's casting time. Extend Spell will also work of course, but probably only on spells with a duration.)

Level 8 spell: Not so easy. After finding out that you have Summon Monster VIII I want to suggest using summoned avorals as heal-bots. The problem is, they'll have to find you to heal you. Which makes Superior Invisibility less superior. If you decide that invisibility is necessary you may as well get it. It's _very_ effective. 

I'm leaning towards good ol' Mind Blank. Useful buff, can be cast in advance, and only "wastes" one of your precious Summon Monster VIII slots.

Get Greater Arcane Spellsurge to simply go nova (with cold). With two Orbs of Cold per round you might just kill the dragon before it has time to kill you. You'll still have a third spell per round for more blasting, summoning or buffs. The problem is that you'll run out of 8th level spell slots real fast. 

Tactics: 
I take it this is a planned battle? If so, make sure you cast every buff spell you can before starting. If possible the rest of the party should be pouring buff spells into you as well. (A cleric could get you Energy Immunity and Freedom of Movement, for example.) 

*Do not let the dragon full attack you*. Whatever it takes. Suck up the AoO and move away (or Dimension Door as a swift action after attacking) if it's close enough to full attack you the next round. If you get grappled, dimension door away. 

Don't cast miss chance spells. Risky, but the idea is to have summoned avorals keep you healthy with Lay on Hands. If the dragon uses actions to kill the avorals, you win out - you can get more with a standard action and still blast it with swift action Orbs of Cold. Once you run out of avorals and Summon Monster spells it's time for Greater Invisiblity. (The dragon will still be able to pinpoint you, so this is a bad situation.) 

Cast Arcane Spellsurge right away. (You can't do that if you used Draconic Arcane Grace.)

Avorals can cast dispel magic at will, so keep them/it busy using it if you don't need healing and you suspect the dragon of still having buffs running. They can also cast magic missile and lightning bolt, but that won't do more than annoy the dragon even if they get though SR. Might make it attack them though.  

The other main summoned monsters should be elementals. You can get 1d4+1 Large, 1d4 Huge, or 1 Greater. They're unlikely to do much damage, but can be in the way and annoy the dragon enough to make it waste valuable actions battering through their DR and hit points. Air Elementals have good reflex saves and can fly. Earth Elementals do more damage. You can ready an action to pop an elemental in front of the dragon as it's moving in on you, possibly forcing it to stop or fall. (Poor or Clumsy flyers need room to turn and have to maintain forward movement.)

Other than that you'll just have to keep battering it with damage spells. It should take around 5 Orbs of Cold to kill it. Watch out for Cold Resistance items as well as buffs. 

Don't use Aspect of the Silver Dragon unless you're completely out of options. It's only CR 12 compared to the dragon's CR 18 or 20, and you will lose in a slugging match.


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## irdeggman (Nov 24, 2008)

You are in way above your head here.  Like I said before it is not a "fair" encounter for on-on-one.

Your PC is 17th level the dragon has at least 22 HD - that puts him way above your CR capacity.

Now if the DM does a lot of "limitations" like prevents the dragon from flying or using all of its abilities then it might be closer - but still just using HD puts it a 5 above your level (which is 3 above the tough encounter and well into the probably deadly range).

Combat here is not your friend - your best bet is to "negotiate".


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## meltinbradley (Nov 24, 2008)

*hey*

I havent read all of the comments, but one thing that worked really well when my PC's were fighthing a dragon I sent at them is casting spells that drain strength, and or fatigues the dragon. They got the dragons strength so low it wasnt able to fly and being fatigue didnt help much either.
Now youre 17th level so the dragon you are fighting was probably a lot stronger then the red dragon they fought. They fought a adult red dragon and they were around 12th level at the time. I know SR, etc are lower for younger dragons. But if you can weaken it to the point that its tired and cant move fast and it cannot fly at all plus its attacks are lowered because of the strength drain its not going anywhere. Now focus on spells or items that protect you from fire or grant evasion. And Dispel magics would be good as well incase it has some nasty spells upon it. My 2 cents...MB


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## Runestar (Nov 24, 2008)

Well, if the dragon is huge/gargantuan, you can use forcecage (the barred version) to trap it. Though it is not difficult to escape it (dim door/teleport), so you may want to smack it with a dimension lock spell first. After that, it is simply a matter of finding something that works (be it stacking multiple cloudkills or ....?)


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## Shin Okada (Nov 25, 2008)

One on one fight against 400+ years old red dragon, that is tough.

Overcoming the Dragon's SR still seems to be the main problem. If the Red Dragon is Old, SR is 24, or 28 if the DM gives him Awaken Spell Resistance feat. And you have only few spells which can ignore SR. I suggest you to buy some item (scrolls or wand) of Assay Spell Resistance, seriously.

And, expect the Red Dragon to do something you are not predicting. Your play group is using many supplements including Draconomicon and Dragon Magic. That means, the Red Dragon is not likely to be of simple build within core rules. He may have feats, skills & items from various supplements. Even within core rules, Red Dragons are tricky as they can learn cleric spells, too (thus, say, may cast Restoration or similar spell to remove ability damages from Shivering Touch, casting Silence while using Silent Spell for himself, etc.). So I recommend you to learn Limited Wish anyway. Anything may happen. And your spells known may not solve that situation. You need versatility.

Gathering information beforehand could be the key to win. Use skills and spells (including items) to gather as much information about the dragon as possible. Dragon of that age must be famous and thus people in the area should know something or have records about it. Buying scrying item may help, too.

If you can cast Summon Monster VIII. You may likely to let the summoned monster fight alone while you are watching the fight from safe place (say, while hiding with Hide from Dragons spell or using Scry and such). You don't need to win the dragon in a single fight.

And, don't try to win it with a single fight. You can always retreat with your Greater Teleport spell when you find something wrong.


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## akbearfoot (Nov 25, 2008)

If this is intended to be a solo fight then it had better be a lower CR than your level or most likely you will die a horrible death in short order.

Unless you have immunity to having your buffs dispelled which is unlikely....a relatively aged dragon is going to strip those buffs right off you.

If the dragon is red, you can count on it having resistance to cold damage, since it would be a stupid dragon if it didn't.  Also expect it to have breath sub because any smart dragon knows that pesky adventureres hunting red dragons are gonna be loaded down with resist fire potions/scrolls etc...

Have a ring of freedom of movement, or die fast....unless you can kill it in 1 round it's going to move right up to you and grapple you.  If you let it get more than 1 attack on you you will be pinned and won't even be able to D-door away.  Without serious buff spells, including shapechange or PaO you will have no chance to beat a huge or better dragon in a grapple.


There was a spell somewhere called Ray Reflection I read once....worked like spell turning but only worked on rays....If I were a dragon, I'd have it for sure....Pesky mages and their Enervations and Empowered Rays of enfeeblment.


I played a lv18 wizard in a game where we fought the Colossal Red dragon...CR 21 version though....Opening round I hit it with an Empowered Energy Drain, and an Quickened Empowered Ray of Enfeeblment....it took a -8 to all rolls, and an additional -12 strength on top of that....It still could have butchered me in melee, but it could no longer hit the buffed warriors...the leap attack combat brute goliath with the great hammer killed it in 1 round after 1 full attack including a crit for 275 someodd damage.  Was pretty anti-climactic really.


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## Iku Rex (Nov 25, 2008)

Starbuck_II said:


> He could get a scroll of Spectral hand to touch the Dragon for him.



Only works on level 4 spells or lower. 
Spectral Hand :: d20srd.org


***




akbearfoot said:


> Unless you have immunity to having your buffs dispelled which is unlikely....a relatively aged dragon is going to strip those buffs right off you.



 A CR 20 Old Red Dragon is only caster level 11. It won't even have access to Greater Dispell Magic. At CL 17+ he should _hope_ the dragon wants a magic duel.


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## Runestar (Nov 25, 2008)

I sure am missing the archmage's arcane reach right about now...


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## Rackhir (Nov 25, 2008)

If your DM is any good and is using stuff from the draconomicon, then just commit suicide and save yourself the hassle of getting the stuffing beaten out of you. Seriously, unless your DM is an idiot or is hamstringing the dragon somehow you are toast. The draconomicon has a LOT of HORRIBLY unbalanced stuff. 

Stun Ray is an excellent choice, since it does pretty much guarentee you a round or two of the dragon being stunned.

Reciprocal Gyre (especially maximized) can be very effective vs the dragon if it has a lot of spells up. It's untyped damage and ignores SR.

Radiant Assault (SC lv 7) is also untyped damage and has a 15d6 damage cap.

Analyze Dweomer is extremely useful as it not only tells you all the spells the dragon has up, but also their caster level. This can help you avoid wasting spells when the dragon has spells up that would negate the spell (such as cone of cold vs energy resistance cold). It will also let you know exactly what spells your dispels have brought down. 

One possible tactic is to put up the barred force cage around your self, so as to prevent the dragon from going to HtH with you.

Maze is a good spell to buy you a couple of rounds. You could conceivably use it to summon creatures or otherwise prepare the battlefield. Elementals are generally your best choice for summoned creatures.

If the dragon is an arcane caster, Feeblemind (-4 on the save for arcane casters) + Limited wish (-7 on a single save) has a very good chance of completely screwing the dragon.


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## Graybeard (Nov 26, 2008)

Hi,

My DM has informed me that this is to start as a standard magic duel. Buffs first, then some low level spells and such. However, in the end, there can be only one (I know, blatant Highlander quote). He said the object is to defeat the dragon while impressing the other members of the secret organization which I am a member. Whomever wins, gains leadership of the organization. 

My DM doesn't use much out of any books beyond core and the complete books. He does allow the players to use feats and spells from other sources provided we let him know first so he can either disallow it, or modify it if needed.

I am really looking forward to this duel. I've decided to take Limited Wish and am still considering which other spell to take.

Thanks for all your suggestions and thoughts. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Graybeard


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## Graybeard (Nov 28, 2008)

Hi,

The duel with the dragon went as well as can be expected. After I dispelled it's buffs, it went melee against me. I managed to last about a dozen rounds or so before I was down to 1HP. By that time I had Feebleminded it and done some damage. Turns out it was a mature adult red dragon. Fortunately, the other dragons and creatures watching the duel demanded the red dragon spare my life if I conceded (which I wisely did). However, I was kicked out of the secret society which will now be led by the red dragon. On the plus side, since I had put on a good show, several good dragons (and a couple of evil ones) decided to split from the society to join our group in the fight against the Furies (5 very evil epic level females, a Drow, a Vampire, a Human, a Medusa, and a Rhakshasha). As an added bonus, I now own a robe of displacement and have an adult silver dragon as a cohort. Not too bad over all.


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## Iku Rex (Nov 28, 2008)

Sounds like a good fight. I'm glad you told us how it turned out. 


Graybeard said:


> Fortunately, the other dragons and creatures watching the duel demanded the red dragon spare my life if I conceded (which I wisely did).



Someone must have done some pretty impressive demanding, given how at that point the dragon was incapable of communication and was basically an inherently evil, wounded, pissed off animal. 


What spell did you end up taking for level 8?

Any post-fight reflections on what you should have picked to _win_?


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## Graybeard (Nov 28, 2008)

Hi,

I ended up taking Polymorph Any Object for the future possibilities it offered. There were dozens of dragons of all types watching this fight as well as creatures of all types and sizes. It was fun and it was something we will all talk about for many years. 

After, my DM told me he would have tried flying really high or using Dim Door to go up a thousand feet or so and just keep hitting the dragon with spells until it failed. 

After today's game session, I have to wait until Christmas week to play this game again. The DM lives in Virginia.


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## Noumenon (Nov 29, 2008)

I hope you come back to tell us how it went, even if it turns out your DM made the whole thing an illusion.


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