# Live Blog from D&D Experience



## SlyFlourish (Feb 27, 2008)

Hello!

I will be attending the D&D Experience tomorrow and throughout the weekend. I just set up a weblog and plan to post news and photos from the event as they occur with my trusty iPhone.

You can see the site at:

http://ddxp.tumblr.com/

You can also subscribe to the blog's RSS feed using a tool like Google Reader or Bloglines to get up-to-the-minute news and pictures from the event.

Hopefully this will be a way for some of you to experience the event who can't otherwise be there.

I'll be staring the postings around 9am and throughout the day including the 10am to noon R&D developer talk which should answer a lot of questions we've had for some time.

Thanks!

Mike


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## Cake Mage (Feb 27, 2008)

cool sweet.  I'll be looking foward to it.


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## Agamon (Feb 27, 2008)

Nice!  I'll be sure to check it out.


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## Plane Sailing (Feb 28, 2008)

Temporarily stickying this thread, to make it easy for people to crash Mikes blog enjoy his updates.

Cheers


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## hong (Feb 28, 2008)

Are we there yet?


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## Thaumaturge (Feb 28, 2008)

Rad! Thanks.

Thaumaturge.


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## SlyFlourish (Feb 28, 2008)

*Leaving*

Leaving in about 10 minutes!


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## Darkwolf71 (Feb 28, 2008)

Hurry up already! 

Looking forward to your updates.


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## hong (Feb 28, 2008)

mshea said:
			
		

> Leaving in about 10 minutes!



 Yay!

Are you there yet?


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## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

Hey mshea, if you are reading this, would you allow us to post questions here (or on your blog) and you can ask them for us and get answers?  If you would be willing to do that...


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## TerraDave (Feb 28, 2008)

Ok, I hope to see you there. (I guess I am looking for the guy with the iphone taking pictures of minis...)


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## Dragonblade (Feb 28, 2008)

He just posted an info sheet, but I can't read it! We need a higher res picture or PDF of that thing.


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## hong (Feb 28, 2008)

Zoom needed on that 4E info sheet, stat!


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## Simplicity (Feb 28, 2008)

Okay, here's what I can make out of the one sheet...

7. Attack!

Attacks are divided up into five different types. Melee attacks are those you make when you're adjacent to your target.  Ranged attacks can be made ???  distance....  

8. Action points give you an extra action

9. Movement is quick and easy

10. Saving throws are straightforward

11. Durations are easy to manage

Most effects that have durations ...

12. Reach (usually) isn't as threatening(?)

13.A trio of 'c' rules you might want to know

- Combat advantage
- Cover
- Charging


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## withak (Feb 28, 2008)

We need one of those image enhancers from TV Land that can zoom in to an arbitrary level and still retain perfect photo clarity.

7. Attack!

Attacks are divided up into a few different types. Melee attacks are those you make(?) usually when you're adjacent to your target. Ranged attacks can be made at any distance up to the ? range of the ?. ?, if you make(?) a ranged attack... bah, this is too time-consuming.   

8. Action points give you an extra action.

9. Movement is quick and easy.

10. Saving throws are straightforward.

11. Durations(?) are easy to manage.

12. Reach (usually) isn't as threatening

13. A trio of "c" rules you might want to know


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## RangerWickett (Feb 28, 2008)

withak said:
			
		

> We need one of those image enhancers from TV Land that can zoom in to an arbitrary level and still retain perfect photo clarity.




The one where you tell the computer "Enlarge and Enhance," and it automatically knows what part of the image you're talking about?

Do they not have _mice_ in the future?


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## Dragonblade (Feb 28, 2008)

withak said:
			
		

> We need one of those image enhancers from TV Land that can zoom in to an arbitrary level and still retain perfect photo clarity.




Enhance...*zooms in*...Enhance...*zooms in*...Enhance...


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## Simplicity (Feb 28, 2008)

Mike Shea hasn't posted in 40 minutes.  We can only assume that he's dead.  We'll have to send someone in after him.  RangerWickett, you're a ranger.  You can track him and bring his corpse back for resurrection.  Bonus XP if you can find the D&D one-sheet and bring that back too.  Actually, come to think of it, the resurrection can wait.  FIND THAT PAPER!


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## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

Simplicity said:
			
		

> 13.A trio of 'c' rules you might want to know
> 
> - Combat advantage
> - Cover
> - Charging




What about the other 'c' word?  Crapple (ok, ok, so it's Grapple...)


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## withak (Feb 28, 2008)

Simplicity said:
			
		

> find the D&D one-sheet and bring that back too




One Sheet to rule them all, One Sheet to find them...


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## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

Simplicity said:
			
		

> Mike Shea hasn't posted in 40 minutes.  We can only assume that he's dead.  We'll have to send someone in after him.  RangerWickett, you're a ranger.  You can track him and bring his corpse back for resurrection.  Bonus XP if you can find the D&D one-sheet and bring that back too.  Actually, come to think of it, the resurrection can wait.  FIND THAT PAPER!




QUEST CARD
Quest: Find mshea's corpse and retrieve his D&D sheet
Reward: 500 XP and 10 gold pieces


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## Wormwood (Feb 28, 2008)

*New cover*
Dragonborn on cover. Dragonborn females have breasts. “yes, they are scaily.

edit: So that's a dragonborn chick on the cover? Cool! Interesting if true!


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## Simplicity (Feb 28, 2008)

Oh wait....  It turns out Mike's alive.  Has he gone to the other side?  RangerWickett, we're sending you in to take out Mike Shea and return with the D&D one-sheet.  If it turns out he's not a traitor to the cause, we can have him resurrected at a future date.  And in that case, someone should probably get out of those nice little apology cards.  But not one of those ones that play music when you open them because that's kind of tacky.


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## Wormwood (Feb 28, 2008)

They’re going to do a new players handbook every year withnew and updated classes.


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## Pinotage (Feb 28, 2008)

I tried some quick image filtering on that sheet but failed to enhance it beyond the rather poor resolution image that it is.  :\ 

Pinotage


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## Jinete (Feb 28, 2008)

Simplicity said:
			
		

> Mike Shea hasn't posted in 40 minutes.  We can only assume that he's dead.  We'll have to send someone in after him.  RangerWickett, you're a ranger.  You can track him and bring his corpse back for resurrection.  Bonus XP if you can find the D&D one-sheet and bring that back too.  Actually, come to think of it, the resurrection can wait.  FIND THAT PAPER!





HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


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## Darkwolf71 (Feb 28, 2008)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> They’re going to do a new players handbook every year withnew and *updated* classes.



I find that annoying. Hopefully the 'updating' is kept to a minimum. >.<

"Oh, no. You're playing a 2008 ranger. Totally sucks. You need to upgrade to the 2010 ranger."


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## Shroomy (Feb 28, 2008)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> I find that annoying. Hopefully the 'updating' is kept to a minimum. >.<
> 
> "Oh, no. You're playing a 2008 ranger. Totally sucks. You need to upgrade to the 2010 ranger."





By updated, I thought they meant updated classes from earlier editions.  Though I'm sure that they will contain new options for the existing core classes.


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## Dragonblade (Feb 28, 2008)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> I find that annoying. Hopefully the 'updating' is kept to a minimum. >.<
> 
> "Oh, no. You're playing a 2008 ranger. Totally sucks. You need to upgrade to the 2010 ranger."




I doubt that they are going to reprint previously published classes. That would be lame and would hurt sales.


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## Wormwood (Feb 28, 2008)

Shroomy said:
			
		

> By updated, I thought they meant updated classes from earlier editions.  Though I'm sure that they will contain new options for the existing core classes.



Yeah, I'd bet that updated simply means stuff like duskblades and cavaliers. 

On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing some PHB2-style expanded _options _ for existing classes.


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> I find that annoying. Hopefully the 'updating' is kept to a minimum. >.<
> 
> "Oh, no. You're playing a 2008 ranger. Totally sucks. You need to upgrade to the 2010 ranger."




I'm hoping my speculation is correct and by new it will actually be new classes/races along with the ones presented in non-core books compiled so you don't have to buy those books if you don't want to.  Such as Drow presented in FR also presented in PHB II so you don't have to buy that book if you don't want to, but still get the race presented in better detail than the MM will present.


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## ThirdWizard (Feb 28, 2008)

_Refresh... Refresh... REFRESH..._

I know I have work to do. We're implementing a new warehouse managing system that I'm in charge of today. But, for some strange reason I find myself sitting here hitting refresh repeatedly.


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## Dragonblade (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm sure Mike is furiously pounding away on his iphone, but it would be nice if at the end of the day, someone who was there could give us a comprehensive write-up of everything mentioned at the seminar along with a COMPLETE and legible copy of all 4e materials released including that one sheet, character sheets, etc.


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## Darkwolf71 (Feb 28, 2008)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> Yeah, I'd bet that updated simply means stuff like duskblades and cavaliers.
> 
> On the other hand, I wouldn't mind seeing some PHB2-style expanded _options _ for existing classes.



I certainly hope your interpertation is correct, though I would see those as 'new' 4e classes, not 'updated'. *shrug


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## Pinotage (Feb 28, 2008)

Paragon level adventures in oct and December. Dt7 fame of forgotten gods. Halls of the giant kings. Streets of shadow. Urban theme dungeon tiles. Dm screen very thick. Like a monopoly board. Starter set. November. How will it be different than other sets. No minis. Forgotten realms in august. Reader friendly. Less encyclopedia more quick reference. Sept. FR players book in sept. Sword Mage class in that book. FR1. Forgotten realms adventure. Eberron in 2009. June on dd insider will have a warforged guide. Other campaign settings including old favorites. Two poster maps in the mini starter set. July. Against the giants. Dragons giants titans. Nov. Demonweb. They showed a firegiant mini. Pic forthcoming. 6 seconds ago 

Andy Collins Phb eight races and eight classes. Templates for monsters such as liches and fire scions. 500 monsters in the monster manual. Tome of treasures. September. Hundreds of items. Meant for both players and dms. Martial Power. October. For fighters rangers rogues and warlords. Draconomicon. November. Three new chromatic dragons. Manual of the planes. December

Pinotage


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> I'm sure Mike is furiously pounding away on his iphone, but it would be nice if at the end of the day, someone who was there could give us a comprehensive write-up of everything mentioned at the seminar along with a COMPLETE and legible copy of all 4e materials released including that one sheet, character sheets, etc.




I keep checking the main site to see if they might surprise us and actually post the content of the sheet.  Would be nice of them to do it, however if they do I figure it will probably be timed to correlate to their noon eastern time session or any time after that.


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## BluWolf (Feb 28, 2008)

Your missing an opportunity here guys. All standard DM contracts clearly state the right of dot upgrades (generally accepted as web content and 3rd party manufacturers) are free of charge. 

LEFT of dot updates are not covered and ll players may be required to pay upgrade fees.

This is cleary an attempt by Hasbro to engender the DM community and provide economic incentive to adopt.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Feb 28, 2008)

No ebooks - online rules database instead.  Thank goodness.


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## lbporter (Feb 28, 2008)

I don't think it has been said yet so.

 Thanks Mike it is great of you to keep those of us far from the D&D XP informed.
If I ever see you at a Con or something I owe you a beer.

Luke


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## Rpgraccoon (Feb 28, 2008)

Pinotage said:
			
		

> Andy Collins Phb eight races and eight classes.




What are the eight? I know we have more than eight don't we?


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Off Mikes blog as of 10:10 Central



> D&D insider
> Online rules database. Character visualizer. Character sheet online. Dnd game table. Limited bonus tiles and virtual minis. Virtual minis non random microtransactions. No tie between physical and virtual tiles. Ebooks. No ebooks. Rule database instead. PDFs will be available for cost. 10 minutes ago
> 
> More 2008 stuff
> ...


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## Echohawk (Feb 28, 2008)

lbporter said:
			
		

> If I ever see you at a Con or something I owe you a beer.



Or, possibly, a kidney


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## BattleAxe (Feb 28, 2008)

*full text of the one pager - my eyes hurt now*

Attack
attacks are divided up into a few different types. Melee attacks are those you make usually when you're adjacent to your target. Ranged attacks can be made at any distance up to the maximum range of the attack, however, if you make a ranged attack next to an enemy you provoke an attack of opportunity against you. Close attacks affect an area starting with squares adjacent to you; these attacks don't provoke opportunity attacks. Area attacks usually affect and area at range; these attacks do provoke opportunity attacks.
	Most of the time when you take an attack you'll use one of your powers. However there are some times when you'll use a basic attack - just a regular old swing of the sword or shot from the bow. these attacks are less powerful than using powers, but they can get the job done. You'll use a basic attack when you're charging, making opportunity attacks and when you use certain powers

Action points give you an extra action.
??? begin each adventure with 1 action point, and you get another one for every 2 encounters that you complete (called a ????????) You can spend 1 action point per encounter to take one extra action on your turn. It can be a standard, move or minor action.
	When you take an extended rest your action points reset back to 1.
	TIP: Make sure to spend action points at least once every other encounter (as often as you earn them) since you can only spend 1 per encounter

Movement is quick and easy
Each character has a speed based on squares. One 1 inch sqaure eqauls one five foot square in the game world. When you take a move action you can move up to the indicated number of squares.  Moving from one sqaure to another, even diagonally uses 1 square of speed. Sometimes terrain? will slow you down costing you more than 1 sqaure of speed - this is called  difficult terrain. Moving away from an enemy adjacent to you usually provokes an opportunity attack. However you can also use a move action to shift, this lets you move one square without suffering an opportunity attack from adjacent enemies.
	TIP: If you need to get somewhere fast you can run as a move action. this gives you a +2 speed for your move, but you grant any attackers combat advantage until the beginning of your next turn.

Saving throws are straight forwards
Sometimes your characters will be hit by an ongoing effect like taking poison damage or being ????????? when this happens you'll usually get to make a saving throw to remove the effect at the end of your turn. Saving throws are simple, just roll 1D20. If you roll a 10 or higher you'll end the effect. If you roll a 9 or lower, the effect will usually continue until you have to make another saving throw at the end of your next turn. Some characters have bonusses that can be applied to certain types of saving throws and some powers grant modifiers to saving throws as well

Durations are easy to manage
Most effects that have durations (usually ???????? a condition on the target) last either until the target makes a saving throw to ward it off, or until the end of the next round? of the attacker that caused the nasty effect. A few effects have durations that last through the entire encounter. No ??????? tracking of rounds to determine when your effect ended

Reach (usually) isn't as threatening
Reach (possesed byt by some monsters and ??????) is only "active" on the attackers turn. Otherwise attackers with reach function just like those without reach. this is usually only ??????? when determining the area a character in ??????? threatens
	TIP: WAtch out for the few creatures with threatening reach, they can threaten more than just squares adjacent to them

A trio of "c" rules
Comabt advantage. This gives a +2 bonus to attack rolls when you're flanking or then the target is under one of a number of conditions. (??????, ?????. etc)
Cover. If an enemy has cover you get a -2 penalty to attack rolls againt it.
Your allies ?????? ?????? but? your? enemies do. There's also no penalty to making ranged attacks ????? ??????
Charging - This is a standard action. Move up to your speed and make a basic attack. this gives you a ??? bonus on attack rolls. - the rest is too blurry for me -sorry

Edit: Further clarifications and spelling


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## Grymar (Feb 28, 2008)

More insider
E-adventures online adventures with tiles and minis. Lots of stuff…how much… 24 hour pass to play for players who do not subscribe. Samples and trials available. Online character sheet. Editable PDF for free. 2d tile mapper available for free. Price…14.95 monthly, 12.95 six months, 9.95 yearly 3 seconds ago


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## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

<EDIT>

Grymar beat me with the update. Yoink!


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## Shroomy (Feb 28, 2008)

For $9.95 a year, I'm subscribing to DDI regardless of quality.  I'll take my chances.


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## withak (Feb 28, 2008)

Grymar said:
			
		

> Price…14.95 monthly, 12.95 six months, *9.95 yearly* 3 seconds ago



This may have just changed my mind completely about D&DI. I can do $10/year.


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## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Shroomy said:
			
		

> For $9.95 a year, I'm subscribing to DDI regardless of quality.  I'll take my chances.



I took that to mean that if you sign up for only one month at a time, it would be $14.95. If you signed up for a whole year, then it would be $9.95 a month ($120 annually).


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## FickleGM (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm going to guess that's the per month cost, based on the length of subscription.


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## hong (Feb 28, 2008)

That can't be right. I suspect it's 14.95/month if monthly, 12.95/month if 6 months, or 9.95/month if yearly.


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## Grymar (Feb 28, 2008)

I imagine that is 10/month if you do a year at a time.


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## Chuangel (Feb 28, 2008)

Kahoots said:
			
		

> I took that to mean that if you sign up for only one month at a time, it would be $14.95. If you signed up for a whole year, then it would be $9.95 a month ($120 annually).




Agreed. Still seems like a bit much to me. I'm glad there's a trial though, I'll check that out.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Feb 28, 2008)

withak said:
			
		

> This may have just changed my mind completely about D&DI. I can do $10/year.




It's pretty clear to me that he means the price is 14.95/month, if you buy monthly, 12.95/month if you pay for six months, and 9.95 per month if you buy 12 months - or just under $120 for a full year.


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## rvalle (Feb 28, 2008)

withak said:
			
		

> This may have just changed my mind completely about D&DI. I can do $10/year.




I'd be surprised if that wasn't 9.95/month for 12 months. Probably just hasty typing on Mikes part.

rv


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## tresson (Feb 28, 2008)

Kahoots said:
			
		

> I took that to mean that if you sign up for only one month at a time, it would be $14.95. If you signed up for a whole year, then it would be $9.95 a month ($120 annually).




Which is less then a movie but I have a strange feeling you'll get more us outta this then the 1.5-2 hours that your average movie would cost.

The prices are in americian I assume?


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## Jack99 (Feb 28, 2008)

Cant be anything else, I mean, who on earth would pay $15 for a month if a year costs $10?


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## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

Rpgraccoon said:
			
		

> What are the eight? I know we have more than eight don't we?




hmmm... 

races:
human
dwarf
elf
half-elf
halfling
tiefling
eladrin
dragonborn

classes:
fighter
cleric
rogue
wizard
paladin
ranger
warlord
warlock


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

I was afraid they'd charge like an MMO.  Too bad that it isn't an MMO.  They are offering a lot, but in the long run the prices seems too high for something you don't get a lot out of.  You pay that price for an MMO and you can play 24/7 if you want to die young after all the caffeine you inhale.  They should reward you for buying the books and give you discount or a month free for each book.  So effectively they still get your money and it encourages sales.  They could easily place codes for free access inside the books.


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## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Chuangel said:
			
		

> Agreed. Still seems like a bit much to me. I'm glad there's a trial though, I'll check that out.



The trial will be immensely popular. I know that I'll be picking it up.


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## Nymrohd (Feb 28, 2008)

Still seems like a decent price. Especially for any of us who had poor access to Dungeon and Dragon anyway.


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## coriolis (Feb 28, 2008)

I'm pretty sure he meant $9.95 per month for a 12-month subscription.


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## MojoGM (Feb 28, 2008)

Prices for DDI seem quite reasonable to me.

$120 / year ain't bad


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## withak (Feb 28, 2008)

D'oh, yeah, obviously that's $10/month. I'd say I need more coffee, but I've already hit my daily limit...  

Nevermind about D&DI then.


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## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Thanks, BA for the update!



			
				BattleAxe said:
			
		

> Movement is quick and easy
> Each character has a speed based on squares. One 1 inch sqaure eqauls one five foot square in the game world. When you take a move aqction you can move up to the indicated number of sqaures.  Moving from one sqaure to another, even diagonally uses 1 sqaure of speed. Sometimes terrain? will slow you down costing you more than 1 sqaure of speed - this is called  difficult terrain.Moving away from an enemy adjacent to you usually provokes and opportunity attack. However  you can also use a move action to shift. this lets you move one square without suffering an opportunity attack from adjacent enemies.
> TIP: If you need to get somewhere fast you can run as a move action. this gives you a +2 speed for your move, but you grant any attackers combat advantage until the beginning of your next turn.



I was afraid of the diagonal moving. *sigh*

It's interesting too that running is not a double/triple move anymore, but +10 ft which still allows you to attack during the round at the expense of someone having combat advantage on you.


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Course by getting more out of an MMO for the money I mean by trying to find a game to play at all times which will take just anyone.  Most people will form up groups to play and will only play with those people.  Pickup games might be harder to get, but will have to wait till the demo period in April.  Although an MMO you can if you want play on your own to advance your character.  If they included automated modules where the computer does the work of DM for those who can't find a DM or don't have time to play with a full group but want to play then that would be awesome and worth the price.  You only have 30 minutes to play do to work or something then that would a perfect.


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## Grymar (Feb 28, 2008)

Kahoots said:
			
		

> It's interesting too that running is not a double move anymore, but +10 ft.




When I saw that I read the "+" as a "x".  Two additional squares of movement seems too little to be worth granting combat advantage for an entire round, I'd think.  I'm hoping it was a typo.


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Just posted



> Re: ddxp.tumblr.com
> Healing surge is a per day ability that let’s characters heal themselves as a standard action. Action points. Characters start with one and gain one every two battles. They are used to add a standard action to a turn. There are no full round actions. 5 seconds ago


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## Nymrohd (Feb 28, 2008)

I for one think that considering how ridiculous the speed players and monsters could move at in 3e was, +2 squares for running is a good change.


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## rvalle (Feb 28, 2008)

"Healing surge is a per day ability that let’s characters heal themselves as a standard action. Action points. Characters start with one and gain one every two battles. They are used to add a standard action to a turn. There are no full round actions."


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## sunmaster (Feb 28, 2008)

> Healing surge is a per day ability that let’s characters heal themselves as a standard action. Action points. Characters start with one and gain one every two battles. They are used to add a standard action to a turn. There are no full round actions.




I hope that this is also for "social" combats. I like adventures where there is much "social" stuff and 
less "fight, kill, kill" .


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## Henry (Feb 28, 2008)

Grymar said:
			
		

> When I saw that I read the "+" as a "x".  Two additional squares of movement seems to little to be worth granting combat advantage for an entire round, I'd think.  I'm hoping it was a typo.




Have you ever tried to make it to an enemy around a corner or behind a pillar and come up 2 squares too short? I have at least once per 3 or 4 game sessions; it's worth it.


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## Wormwood (Feb 28, 2008)

dm4hire said:
			
		

> Just posted



Ah, sweet crunch. 

So Action Points are eponymous and Healing Surge is per day? I would have thought per _encounter_. Hmmm.


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## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Shroomy said:
			
		

> By updated, I thought they meant updated classes from earlier editions. Though I'm sure that they will contain new options for the existing core classes.



If the The Rouse quote here is still accurate, I'd think you are correct. Perhaps reprinting classes from setting books as well.


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## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Feb 28, 2008)

$120 / Year on DDI
or
$140 / Year on 4 new DnD books (at $35 a book)

Choice is very simple for me, I'll take the books and map out my dungeons the old fashion way   

Now if each book gave you a month long membership for free, then we can talk about it.


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## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Henry said:
			
		

> Have you ever tried to make it to an enemy around a corner or behind a pillar and come up 2 squares too short? I have at least once per 3 or 4 game sessions; it's worth it.



I agree as well. I've been in the 1-2 squares short category too many times to count.

I still want to know if BBEG's get Action Points and Healing Surges as well.... *waiting patiently*


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## Shroomy (Feb 28, 2008)

It looks like Mike posted a correction and the new PHBs will be like the 3.5e PHBII, supplements not replacements.


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## BattleAxe (Feb 28, 2008)

Kahoots said:
			
		

> Thanks, BA for the update!




No problems

I've updated my original post on page 2 with the whole text now (or as much as I can make out)

Apologies to all for the atrocious spelling - I thought speed was better than accuracy as we're all rabid for information.


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## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

He's posted some picks of the new minis as well.


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## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

mshea, if you are reading this and could ask...  I REALLY would like to know...

Are they (WotC) defining what an encounter is?  When it begins and when it ends?

Do they have seperate categories for encounters (such as battle encounter, social encounter, etc.)?

Because if you get 2 Action Points every 2 battles (which is a type of encounter), I take that to mean a social encounter isn't important enough to use or gain Action Points.


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## grimslade (Feb 28, 2008)

So Healing Surge is a /day ability. And rogues get _Healing Surges: 6 + Constitution modifier_ Looks like clerics and warlords will have plenty of powers that inspire Healing Surges.


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## Wormwood (Feb 28, 2008)

I

Want

Fire

Giant

NOW


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## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

BattleAxe said:
			
		

> I thought speed was better than accuracy as we're all rabid for information.



Agreed!

All of the information you put down seems logically correct. A bit different that 3.x and streamlined, but it seems good (for the most part) so far.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Feb 28, 2008)

Kahoots said:
			
		

> I still want to know if BBEG's get Action Points and Healing Surges as well.... *waiting patiently*




The Pit Fiend write up had "Action Points: 1" as part of its stat block, if I'm remembering correctly.


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## ThirdWizard (Feb 28, 2008)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> Because if you get 2 Action Points every 2 battles (which is a type of encounter), I take that to mean a social encounter isn't important enough to use or gain Action Points.




I would be very careful how much detail you read into his words.


----------



## Michele Carter (Feb 28, 2008)

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd has the quick rules primer up.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> I would be very careful how much detail you read into his words.




Which is why I asked for him to get a clarification.  I am only reading what is written.  I don't assume that two people making Diplomacy checks is considered a "battle", so I don't take that to mean Action Points are normally used in that type of encounter, nor are they gained if you had 2 or 3 diplomacy encounters, since he specifically said every 2 battles you get one.

Anyway, that is why I asked for him to get a clarification...


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Kid Charlemagne said:
			
		

> The Pit Fiend write up had "Action Points: 1" as part of its stat block, if I'm remembering correctly.



Thanks!


----------



## fafhrd (Feb 28, 2008)

Beaten to it.


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Feb 28, 2008)

MojoGM said:
			
		

> Prices for DDI seem quite reasonable to me.
> 
> $120 / year ain't bad



Too much, IMO.

D&D Rulebooks
+
DDI
+
Rulebook database (which is the biggest thing I want out of DDI)
+
Charges for virtual minis

I have a lot of disposable income, but D&D isn't my only hobby. Not to mention, the economy is taking a serious beating. (No political comments, please. It's just an observation.)


Nope, looks like I will limit myself to the books and database. (which better be available w/o a DDI subscription.) If that.


----------



## BattleAxe (Feb 28, 2008)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> Because if you get 2 Action Points every 2 battles (which is a type of encounter).




From my reading of the 1 pager - it looks like 1 AP is awarded every two encounters. this is backed up by another statement just underneath advising you to use at least 1 AP every other encounter as that is the rate at which you get them


----------



## eleran (Feb 28, 2008)

Maybe I am just dense, but why would social encounters need action points?  I dont ask because I think they are less important, I ask because it seems self evident to me that they would merely be structured differently.  ie combat encounters happen in rounds during which initiative defines when you may take certain actions.  While social encounters (roleplaying and info gathering and maybe puzzles, etc) would be a more freeflowing type of thing without rigid structure therefore not needing action points.


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

WotC_Miko said:
			
		

> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd has the quick rules primer up.




Where at please?  Not seeing it.  Could you give a direct link?  Thanks for posting!!


----------



## MojoGM (Feb 28, 2008)

I was only thinking $10/month is less than 2 McDonald's run or 1 pizza.  About the cost of a movie (not that I go to many movies), but it really is disposable income. 

Now, that being said it ain't at $120 right up front, but it makes sense to do that rather than pay $15 a month.

If I get a couple of hours enjoyment out of it each month, it is worth the price of entry.




			
				Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Too much, IMO.
> 
> D&D Rulebooks
> +
> ...


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Mike posted a better picture of the PHB.

Edit:  Noticed it lists that is is for Arcane, Divine, and Martial Heroes.


----------



## Trolls (Feb 28, 2008)

dm4hire said:
			
		

> Where at please?  Not seeing it.  Could you give a direct link?  Thanks for posting!!




Sounds like you're having the same problem I am. For me, the link was hidden behind the 'Features' tab.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/news_20080228.zip


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

Sweet! Reading it now!! Oooooh!


----------



## Chris_Nightwing (Feb 28, 2008)

=o =o =o


----------



## tresson (Feb 28, 2008)

Looks like they at least defined how long you need to rest before you get your per encounter powers back.




> 6. Short and extended rests.
> Resting’s now divided into two groups – short and extended.
> A short rest lasts 5 minutes, and is a long enough time for
> you to regain your encounter powers and use healing surges
> ...


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> Ah, sweet crunch.
> 
> So Action Points are eponymous and Healing Surge is per day? I would have thought per _encounter_. Hmmm.



It looks like Second Winds are once per encounter, but you do get more than 1 a day.

From the PDF linked above (which isthe handout Mike scanned):

5. Healing gets an overhaul.
Hit points still measure your ability to stay in the fight, but healing’s no longer just the burden of one character anymore. Each character has a certain number of healing
surges. Once during each encounter, you can take a standard action called a second wind; this gives you a certain amount of hit points back equal to your healing surge value
and gives you a +2 bonus to all your defenses until the start of your next turn. You then tick off one of your healing surges for the day. Some powers (like some cleric prayers)
will also heal you your healing surge value, and you’ll tick off your healing surges for them as well. When you run out of healing surges, you’ll want to take an extended rest.
If you’re outside of combat, you can take a short rest and tick off the healing surges you need to heal up damage.


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

tresson said:
			
		

> Looks like they at least defined how long you need to rest before you get your per encounter powers back.



That was the next thing I was going to post. 

5 minutes/6 hours... should be easy enough to track.


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

Paladins will use dive prayers (aka clerical magic!!    Crap!!

At will powers can only affect ONE opponent!!

Warlock has arkane powersource!


----------



## BattleAxe (Feb 28, 2008)

All that effort on the transcription wasted 

Anyway from the rogue information we have - we know the number of surges/day (6+CON mod). How many HP does each surge heal though?


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

The eight class list from the roles section:

Controller: Wizard
Defender: Fighter, Paladin
Leader: Cleric, Warlord
Striker: Ranger, Rogue, Warlock


----------



## Patlin (Feb 28, 2008)

BattleAxe said:
			
		

> All that effort on the transcription wasted
> 
> Anyway from the rogue information we have - we know the number of surges/day (6+CON mod). How many HP does each surge heal though?




I interpreted it the other way.  Each surge heals 6+con, and the rogue article didn't say how often it could be done.


----------



## Stormtalon (Feb 28, 2008)

Patlin said:
			
		

> I interpreted it the other way.  Each surge heals 6+con, and the rogue article didn't say how often it could be done.




Looks like it's the same number to me:  you heal your healing surge value ([x] + con mod) in HP with each surge, and you get ([x] + con mod) healing surges per day, where [x] is the base number for your class.


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> At will powers can only affect ONE opponent!!



Not sure if that is necessarily a given. The text only says "they’ll *frequently* do more than just a modest amount of damage to one enemy." That doesn't seem to exclude the possibility to "do modest or less than modest amounts of damage to more enemies."


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

It can be done 1/encounter AND other classes (clerc/pally/warlordy) can also trigger them which goes ebyond the 1/encounter limit. Dang. And when you rest for SIX hours only you get back ALL hitpoints AND ALL surges!

Thats without using any healing potions. And thats at 1st level heroic tier. 

So I guess getting stabbed all over with blood pouring out of every orifice will be taken care of with a 6 hour rest.


----------



## Dragonblade (Feb 28, 2008)

My interpretation of movement is that you can move your speed as a move action. At the cost of granting combat advantage to your enemies, you can add 2 squares to that.

If you give up your standard action, you can still double move. +2 squares on top of that if you are willing to grant combat advantage.

One question I have is if you are affected by multiple ongoing effects, how many saves do you get in a round? One vs. one effect? If so, which one? A separate roll for every effect? This would seem to bog the game down if you have multiple effects affecting you. Does the natural 20 ending all effects at once from DDM still apply?


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

I spotted this stuff from the Critical Hits link and cross posting it here.

200 magic items in the PHB none listed for DMG!
Templates for Lich and 19 others will be in the DMG.
MM has rules for playing over a dozen Monsters as PC.


----------



## BattleAxe (Feb 28, 2008)

Patlin said:
			
		

> I interpreted it the other way.  Each surge heals 6+con, and the rogue article didn't say how often it could be done.



 Hmm,

That would make the healing surges less and less effective as the rogue levelled up, and the limitation of 1 per encounter for second winds would soon make these almost worthless - the same with all healing based off surges.

combined with the the definite plural listed on the class description I believe the number per day will be mainly fixed, but the amount of healing variable, and going from previous blogs/playtest reports/design articles maybe something like 1/4 HP

Anyway, I don't want to clutter this thread with Rogue discussions - there's already planety of other places for that.

Back to the news......


----------



## grimslade (Feb 28, 2008)

Patlin said:
			
		

> I interpreted it the other way.  Each surge heals 6+con, and the rogue article didn't say how often it could be done.




I was about to disagree with you but the math holds up with both interpretations. A 20th level rogue with an 18 Con will have 125 hit points. A standard action Second Wind will heal 15 hps for about 12% return. Not great but not horrendous for a /encounter ability that can be triggered by Leader classes.

I still believe the Healing Surges line in the rogue stat block remarks on the number of times a healing surge can be applied rather than the amount. THe playtests this afternoon will confirm one of our views. So we have that going for us, which is nice.


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

No penalty for shooting into melee! WHA??? *shocked!*

But...WHY? So everyone's a sniper now?


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Mike has posted a character sheet.  Female dwarf fighter.


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

No penalty for shooting into melee! WHA??? *shocked!*

But...WHY? So everyone's a sniper now?

And charging got a MAJOR nerfstick.  i think you will have to rely on certainpowers modifying charge, because rite now its pretty worthless.


----------



## Flynn (Feb 28, 2008)

A character sheet has been posted. It appears that HP healed per surge is half the bloodied result (or a quarter of the total HP of the character), as it is different from the Healing Surges Per Day number.

Hope This Helps,
Flynn


----------



## WhatGravitas (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> But...WHY? So everyone's a sniper now?



Nah... snipers perhaps get a _bonus_! 

Interestingly, that's the way I've done it all the time. Never bothered with the penalty, because it crops up faaar more often than not. If it's almost always on, it's no longer a penalty, but the standard. Though I haven't introduced a bonus...

Cheers, LT.


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

Ohhhhhhhhh!!! *swoons* Will I not get any sleep 2nite?


----------



## Vayden (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> It can be done 1/encounter AND other classes (clerc/pally/warlordy) can also trigger them which goes ebyond the 1/encounter limit. Dang. And when you rest for SIX hours only you get back ALL hitpoints AND ALL surges!
> 
> Thats without using any healing potions. And thats at 1st level heroic tier.
> 
> So I guess getting stabbed all over with blood pouring out of every orifice will be taken care of with a 6 hour rest.




For the last time, HP loss <> wounds in 4E. If you're stabbed all over and have blood coming out of every orifice, you're DEAD. Your HP are going to be luck/resolve/toughness, not physical damage. Read one of the dozen threads on the subject.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

So it looks like they have Insight and Perception and then Passive versions of each which have a +10 bonus to them.  Which I assume is basically like Taking 10.

Passive I assume would be when the DM rolls in secret to see if you notice anything on your own.  Whereas the regular skills are when you are actively looking for something.


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> No penalty for shooting into melee! WHA??? *shocked!*
> 
> But...WHY? So everyone's a sniper now?
> 
> And charging got a MAJOR nerfstick.  i think you will have to rely on certainpowers modifying charge, because rite now its pretty worthless.




Archers were next to worthless in 3e due to all the penalties for using a missile weapon in dungeons- lots of cover, firing into melee, low damage, etc.  You had to take a lot of feats just to be mediocre.  I prefer the new rules.

I wouldn't call changing the hit modifier for charging from +2 to +1 a major nerfing.  It looks like  modifiers (+ and -) across the board will be lower.


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Flynn said:
			
		

> A character sheet has been posted. It appears that HP healed per surge is half the bloodied result (or a quarter of the total HP of the character), as it is different from the Healing Surges Per Day number.
> 
> Hope This Helps,
> Flynn



Holy Crap!

Level 1 Dwarf
Max HP 33
Healing Surges Per Day 13
Healing Per Surge 8

That means that this Level 1 character can self-heal about x4 max HP. Talk about extending the 15-minute adventuring day...


----------



## med stud (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> No penalty for shooting into melee! WHA??? *shocked!*
> 
> But...WHY? So everyone's a sniper now?



If you want to use ranged weapons as it stands now, you almost have to have Precise shot. That's two feats locked up.


----------



## Nightchilde-2 (Feb 28, 2008)

dm4hire said:
			
		

> Mike has posted a character sheet.  Female dwarf fighter.




Well, there goes the theory that ability scores will give only positive modifiers!


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Mike has the character sheet for the Half-elf Warlock up now.


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

Umm where is the sheet at? Its rude not to link.


----------



## eleran (Feb 28, 2008)

negative stat bonuses are NOT a thing of the past!!!  color me surprised


----------



## FickleGM (Feb 28, 2008)

Vayden said:
			
		

> For the last time, HP loss <> wounds in 4E. If you're stabbed all over and have blood coming out of every orifice, you're DEAD. Your HP are going to be luck/resolve/toughness, not physical damage. Read one of the dozen threads on the subject.



 I have $5 that says he'll mention this again in his lifetime. 

I'm not sure about what I've read, so I'll have to mull it over for a while...I think that I felt more positive than negative...


----------



## Flynn (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> Umm where is the sheet at? Its rude not to link.




It's all part of the blog referenced in the first post of this thread:
http://ddxp.tumblr.com/

Hope This Helps,
Flynn


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

dwarf fighter and half-elf warlock have been posted

it looks like they are built on a standard stat template of 

18, 16, 14, 12, 10, 8

wow, that's 38 point characters!


----------



## BattleAxe (Feb 28, 2008)

I am not going to try and scribe the text of these - they'll just post them up about 30 seconds after I've finished


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> It can be done 1/encounter AND other classes (clerc/pally/warlordy) can also trigger them which goes ebyond the 1/encounter limit. Dang. And when you rest for SIX hours only you get back ALL hitpoints AND ALL surges!
> 
> Thats without using any healing potions. And thats at 1st level heroic tier.
> 
> So I guess getting stabbed all over with blood pouring out of every orifice will be taken care of with a 6 hour rest.



That was my initial reaction as well. But, if you think about it, how often do you start the day _not_ at full hit points? I mean normally you use as much magic as possible the night before followed by resting, then use wands/potions to top off the rest as needed. I almost never start a new day down by more than a point or two and even that it very rare.

So, in 4e there are less potions/wands of healing it happens 'naturally'. Yes, it stinks of cheese, but it's really only a flavor change.


----------



## eleran (Feb 28, 2008)

interesting feat: action surge (+2 on attacks during actions gained from action points


----------



## nerfherder (Feb 28, 2008)

Flynn said:
			
		

> A character sheet has been posted. It appears that HP healed per surge is half the bloodied result (or a quarter of the total HP of the character), as it is different from the Healing Surges Per Day number.
> 
> Hope This Helps,
> Flynn



Same as SWSE then.


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Nightchilde-2 said:
			
		

> Well, there goes the theory that ability scores will give only positive modifiers!



That went a long time ago, specifically it was confirmed with the pit fiend. Not that it was a likely theory anyway.

So the warlock has a wizard power, but her feat is Action Surge rather than a wizard training feat? Interesting, that. Anyone can read the bottom of the daily power? Seems it has a condition similar to the rogue powers.


----------



## fafhrd (Feb 28, 2008)

Witchfire Encounter
7d6+4 fire and -4 to attack rolls 

Yikes.


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

eleran said:
			
		

> interesting feat: action surge (+2 on attacks during actions gained from action points



Nice. A second attack possibility with a bonus to hit.

I'm thinking that you can combo this with other Feats that will add to damage/status on action point attacks.


----------



## theredrobedwizard (Feb 28, 2008)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> So the warlock has a wizard power, but her feat is Action Surge rather than a wizard training feat? Interesting, that. Anyone can read the bottom of the daily power? Seems it has a condition similar to the rogue powers.




It was said a while back that Half-Elves "multiclass well".  Maybe they have a racial ability that mimics/copies the X Training feat, chosen at character creation.

-TRRW


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

fafhrd said:
			
		

> Witchfire Encounter
> 7d6+4 fire and -4 to attack rolls
> 
> Yikes.



Uhm, that's 2d6. 



			
				theredrobedwizard said:
			
		

> It was said a while back that Half-Elves "multiclass well". Maybe they have a racial ability that mimics/copies the X Training feat, chosen at character creation.



Hm, that may be it, yes. Kind of sounds like they'd be forced to multiclass, though.


----------



## kclark (Feb 28, 2008)

fafhrd said:
			
		

> Witchfire Encounter
> 7d6+4 fire and -4 to attack rolls
> 
> Yikes.




I am pretty sure that is 2d6+4 and -4 to attack rolls.

The daily looks like 3d8+4 psychic damage and slide the target 3 squares.

EDIT: Actually it looks like the bottom line says Sustain Minor: Slide target 1 square whether you hit or miss (save ends).

So it looks like as long as you spend a minor action to keep this ability active (regardless if you initially hit or not) you can cause the dark dream to keep him wandering around a little (until he saves).

So it looks like daily powers will probably always have some effect even if you miss with them. Nifty as it won't seem like you wasted them when you miss.


----------



## Simplicity (Feb 28, 2008)

fafhrd said:
			
		

> Witchfire Encounter
> 7d6+4 fire and -4 to attack rolls
> 
> Yikes.




That's 2d6+4.  It's a level 1 character.


----------



## eleran (Feb 28, 2008)

mhensley said:
			
		

> dwarf fighter and half-elf warlock have been posted
> 
> it looks like they are built on a standard stat template of
> 
> ...





I dont think so.  The dwarf has these stats, but remember he gets +2 CON and +2 WIS?  So he started with a smaller pool of points than 38


----------



## Sitara (Feb 28, 2008)

OOoh, someone try to type out the dwarf and half-elf racial abilities! (i value my eyes too much to attempt it  )

And hte warlock spells plz. *cracks whip*


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

fafhrd said:
			
		

> Witchfire Encounter
> 7d6+4 fire and -4 to attack rolls
> 
> Yikes.




Actually I think that is 2d6+4


----------



## Campbell (Feb 28, 2008)

It looks like the hp gap between the rogue and fighter classes is smaller than most people expected. The dwarf fighter with a Constitution score of 18 only has 33 hp so the formula is probably 15+ Constitution score at first level. If you assume an increase of 6 hp/level that 15th level fighter with 120 hp seems much more likely than some people thought.


----------



## Rpgraccoon (Feb 28, 2008)

mhensley said:
			
		

> dwarf fighter and half-elf warlock have been posted
> 
> it looks like they are built on a standard stat template of
> 
> ...




You have to add in the racial bonuses +2 & +2 to something.


----------



## fafhrd (Feb 28, 2008)

Ah, the dangers of sharpening. Anyone else wanna chime in on 2d6?  Here's your chance.


----------



## grimslade (Feb 28, 2008)

eleran said:
			
		

> I dont think so.  The dwarf has these stats, but remember he gets +2 CON and +2 WIS?  So he started with a smaller pool of points than 38




32 point buy
This is one of the LFR tie ins, no? 32 point buy was recommended in the 3E FRCS.


----------



## Patlin (Feb 28, 2008)

Edit: Way late on this, it's discussed above.  My internet access seems to be running at the speed of molasses today.

Hey! That half elf warlock has a Wizard power!

Maybe the half-elf racial power is to take one power from another class at first level?


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Is everyone else wondering what Powers are on the back of the Dwarf card?


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Lag is horrible today, everyone stop reading the message boards.  

The warlock has 28.  I'm wondering if they got the fighter and warlock bonuses mixed up.  Because if you subtract the modifier you get odd numbers for each.  But if you switch their bonuses in the math so the warlock has a 27 and the fighter a 34 then the math works out like we expected.  The fighter would get 15 a level and the warlock would get 12.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

> In 4th Edition, you have 4 defense values – Armor Class,
> Fortitude, Reflex, and Will. The attacker chooses an attack,
> rolls 1d20, adds the attack bonus, and calls out the result
> against the appropriate defense. The defenses are all static
> ...




So, does this mean a 20 foot radius Fireball blast (which now takes up all 64 squares) will require a seperate "to hit" roll for each enemy in the square?  So much for reducing needless rolls.  Why not have it like SWSE Area Effect?  You roll once, and apply it against each target's Reflex Defense.


----------



## grimslade (Feb 28, 2008)

dm4hire said:
			
		

> Lag is horrible today, everyone stop reading the message boards.
> 
> The warlock has 28.  I'm wondering if they got the fighter and warlock bonuses mixed up.  Because if you subtract the modifier you get odd numbers for each.  But if you switch their bonuses in the math so the warlock has a 27 and the fighter a 34 then the math works out like we expected.  The fighter would get 15 a level and the warlock would get 12.




Nope. Math works fine. SUbtract the Con score at first level. 15 + Con score for Fighter (defender) 12 + Con Score for Warlock (striker).


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Eldritch Blast		Warlock (all) Attack 1
At Will * Arcane, Implement
Standard Action		Ranged 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack +4 vs Reflex
Hit 1d10+4
Special: Counts as basic

Eyebite		Warlock (Fey) Attack 1
At Will * Arcane, Charm, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action		Ranged 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack +4 vs Will
Hit 1d6+4 psychic and invisible until your next turn

Ray of Frost		Wizard Attack 1
At Will * Arcane, Cold, Implement
Standard Action		Ranged 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack +2 vs Fortitude
Hit 1d6+2 cold and target slowed until end of your next turn


Witchfire		Warlock (Fey) Attack 1
Encounter * Arcane, Fire, Implement
Standard Action		Ranged 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack +4 vs Reflex
Hit 2d6+4 fire and target -4 attack until end of your next turn


Curse of the Dark Dream		Warlock (Fey) Attack 1
Daily * Arcane, Charm, Implement, Psychic
Standard Action		Ranged 10
Target: 1 creature
Attack +4 vs Will
Hit 3d8?+4 psichic and slide target *3 squares*.
*Sustained Move?*: Slide the target 1 square whether you hit or miss (save ends?)

Edits bold


----------



## Roxolan (Feb 28, 2008)

Notice how both characters are "unaligned" ? The alignment system must be very different - we don't see many NN pre-generated characters in 3E.


----------



## LEHaskell (Feb 28, 2008)

mhensley said:
			
		

> dwarf fighter and half-elf warlock have been posted
> 
> it looks like they are built on a standard stat template of
> 
> ...




More likely that's 16, 16, 12, 10, 12, 8 with +2 Racial bumps to Con and Wis for the dwarf.  That means a 30 point buy.


----------



## Lab_Monkey (Feb 28, 2008)

Equipment:

Shared by both characters:
Backpack, Bedroll, Flint and Steel, Beltpouch, 2 Sunrods (not 100% sure on this one), 10 days trail rations, 50ft. hemp rope, waterskin

Fighter:
Scale Armor, Heavy Shield, Warhammer, 2 hand axes

Warlock:
Leather Armor, 3 daggers, wand


----------



## grimslade (Feb 28, 2008)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> So, does this mean a 20 foot radius Fireball blast (which now takes up all 64 squares) will require a seperate "to hit" roll for each enemy in the square?  So much for reducing needless rolls.  Why not have it like SWSE Area Effect?  You roll once, and apply it against each target's Reflex Defense.




1 Attack roll vs. the static defense (reflex in your example) It is resolved like a melee attack vs AC in 3E.


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Group Diplomacy (+1 Diplomacy to allies within 10 sqaures)
Fey Pact (??? step - when you reduce enemy under warlock's curse to 0 or below, can teleport 3 squares as free action)
Prime Shot (If no ally nearer to target than you, gain +1 to ranged against target)
Shadow Walk (move 3+? squares during your turn, gain concealment until end of your next turn)
Warlock's Curse (1/turn, minor action, put a curse on nearest enemy. Do +1d6 damage against that enemy; lasts for encounter or enemy is defeated)


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

grimslade said:
			
		

> Nope. Math works fine. SUbtract the Con score at first level. 15 + Con score for Fighter (defender) 12 + Con Score for Warlock (striker).




Oh, Wow.  I was thinking just the modifier as usual.  The math was working almost perfect for the modifier if you fixed it like I mentioned.  I just thought they made a mistake, but you are right.


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

If we could just read the fighter's powers we could run a fighter vs. warlock fight.


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Just noticed under the healing section that cleric spells are now called prayers.


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

LEHaskell said:
			
		

> More likely that's 16, 16, 12, 10, 12, 8 with +2 Racial bumps to Con and Wis for the dwarf.  That means a 30 point buy.




Yep, you are correct sir.  

Both of them are 30pt characters as it looks like the half-elf gets +1 Dex, +1 Int, and +2 Cha.

Also, notice that once again D&D has a new order for the attributes.  SCDIWCh


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Just noticed on the sheet about reach not being a problem any more on attack of opportunities unless they have threatening reach.


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

mhensley said:
			
		

> Both of them are 30pt characters as it looks like the half-elf gets +1 Dex, +1 Int, and +2 Cha.




Hmmm, the Elf Write-Up mentions that they get +2 Dex and +2 Wis. Wouldn't it make sense that Half-ElF stat modifiers would be half-way between Human and Elf?

Anyone have any thoughts on this?


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

Sitara said:
			
		

> No penalty for shooting into melee! WHA??? *shocked!*
> 
> But...WHY? So everyone's a sniper now?
> 
> And charging got a MAJOR nerfstick.  i think you will have to rely on certainpowers modifying charge, because rite now its pretty worthless.




I think it is a lot better now.  It is now just a Standard Action, so you can use your Move to get into position and then Charge...  OR...  You can Charge, then use your Move Action to get away from the opponent (I am sure you might incur an OA for this though).  I think it is a lot more flexible.


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

From the two character cards that we've seen, we know that the skill list will include:

Passive Insight
Passive Perception
Acrobatics
Athletics
Bluff 
Insight
Perception
Stealth
Streetwise
Thievery
Endurance
Heal

EDIT: The new Wizard card adds:

Arcana
History
Nature


----------



## Buldan (Feb 28, 2008)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> I think it is a lot better now.  It is now just a Standard Action, so you can use your Move to get into position and then Charge...  OR...  You can Charge, then use your Move Action to get away from the opponent (I am sure you might incur an OA for this though).  I think it is a lot more flexible.




I noticed there was also no mention of needing to move in a straight line only that you "must charge to the nearest square from which you can attack your target". Flexible indeed.


----------



## Pinotage (Feb 28, 2008)

Is it just me or does there seem to be an awful lot of stuff to keep track of? I know the sheet said they'd be until the next turn, or until you save, or until the end of the encounter, but it looks like every class has several powers that have an effect like this. If a party of 6 or 8 start throwing these around, it's going to be a pain for the DM. I hope it works out OK, particularly with all those immediate actions flying about as well and triggering of different abilities. But, it's encouraging to see that it's not difficult to learn and broadly similar to 3e.

Pinotage


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Feb 28, 2008)

grimslade said:
			
		

> 1 Attack roll vs. the static defense (reflex in your example) It is resolved like a melee attack vs AC in 3E.




Maybe I am not understanding it correctly.



> so a power that targets all enemies within 1 square requires a separate attack roll against each enemy affected.




When would this come in effect then really?  Is this for something like Whirlwind Attack, where you hit all enemies within 1 square of you (and only within 1 square of you)?

Is a fireball, which hits a 20 foot radius, treated differently than something like a sonic burst, which hits a 10 foot radius (which is the same as within 1 square of each other)???


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

In his blog , The Rouse mentions that he has pages in a glass box from the PHB and MM.

*can't wait for someone to finally get a pic up on the web of this...*


----------



## kclark (Feb 28, 2008)

No. It works the same basic way as in 3.x edition.

When you throw down a fireball in 4e you roll the damage. Then make an attack roll against everyone in the area. Those whose Reflex defense you hit take full damage, those you miss take 1/2.

It is exactly the same number of rolls as in 3.x, except that the caster makes the rolls instead of the target. Thus all the rolls add the same bonus, so it probably will go faster.


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

I hope mike's iphone didn't die on him.  It's been over 2 hours since his last post.  need more news...


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

mhensley said:
			
		

> I hope mike's iphone didn't die on him.  It's been over 2 hours since his last post.  need more news...



I was wanering if the Hitborn got him... and then I noticed his most recent post.

He mentions that Warlocks can't toll over a 6 in 4e. I'm thinking it was a post of frustration.


----------



## Kahoots (Feb 28, 2008)

Fighter

Encounter Power
Passing Attack - Fighter Attack 1
Encounter - Martial, Weapon
Standard Action - Melee Weapon
Primary Target: One creature
Attack: +6 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+5 damage (if using handaxe 1d6+5 damage), and you can shift 1 square. Make a secondary attack.
Secondary Target: One creature other than the primary target
Secondary Attack: +8 vs AC
Hit: 1d10+5 damage (if using handaxe 1d6+5 dmage)


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Fighter powers from Mike's blog:

Cleave		Fighter Attack 1
At Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard action		Melee weapon
Target One creature
Attack: +6 vs AC
Hit 1d10+5(1d6+5 handaxe) and enemies adjacent to target take 3? damage

Tide of Iron		Fighter Attack 1
At Will * Martial, Weapon
Standard action		Melee weapon
Req: Must use shield
Target One creature
Attack: +6 vs AC
Hit 1d10+5(1d6+5 handaxe) and push enemy 1 square if appropriate size. May shift into newly empty square


Passing Attack		Fighter Attack 1
Encounter * Martial, Weapon
Standard action		Melee weapon
Req: Must use shield
Primary Target One creature
Attack: +6 vs AC
Hit 1d10+5(1d6+5 handaxe), you can shift 1 square, make a secondary attack
Secondary Target One creature other than primary
Attack: +8? vs AC
Hit 1d10+5(1d6+5 handaxe)


Brute Strike		Fighter Attack 1
Daily * Martial, Reliable, Weapon
Reliable: Not expended on a miss
Standard action		Melee weapon
Target One creature
Attack: +6 vs AC
Hit 3d10+5(1d6+5 handaxe)


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

mmm... fighter powers

at will-
Cleave - do 1? damage to enemy adjacent to target
Tide of Iron - hit and push a target 1 square

once an encounter-
Passing Attack - attack a target, move 1 square, attack a 2nd target

once a day-
Brute Strike - attack for triple damage


----------



## kclark (Feb 28, 2008)

I think Cleave is 1/2 damage to second target. Interesting as that doesn't require a to hit roll.
So you could cleave your way through the minions swarming you while wearing down the higher AC boss you are fighting. 

That Brutal Strike is neat.
I think that Reliable is going to be a major Fighter ability.
You will get that nasty daily off as soon as you can roll high enough.
A crit with that is 35 damage! Plenty to drop a 1st level fighter in one swing.

I think it also proves that the 2[W] multipliers shown on previous power previews that [W] is only the weapon die and does not include strength bonuses (maybe magic bonuses from weapon, but i doubt it).


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

'kay, I'm not going to tackle the wizard powers.  Notice that the wizard gets to choose a daily power with each extended rest.


----------



## WhatGravitas (Feb 28, 2008)

Wizard spells... makes me happy.

Acid Arrow and Sleep are daily powers - i.e. select one after each extended rest.

And I can read "Spellbook: ? you begin the adventure and after ? extended rest, pick one of two daily spells - you can ? spell until you select again after an extended rest."

Makes me happy. And the overall spells include ghost sound, light, and mage hand as cantrips.

More than damage spells!



Cheers, LT.


----------



## JoshWilhoyte (Feb 28, 2008)

(edit - took 20 minutes for the post to go through, by which time it was pointless)


----------



## mhensley (Feb 28, 2008)

The tiefling wizard is a 30pt character but only if they get +2 Int and +1 Wis.


----------



## AllisterH (Feb 28, 2008)

Isn't the line that says Atk: +X vs AC mean that X is STR or DEX? I doubt it's a static number but is just what the computed value for that character sheet.


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

AllisterH said:
			
		

> Isn't the line that says Atk: +X vs AC mean that X is STR or DEX? I doubt it's a static number but is just what the computed value for that character sheet.



Yeah, everything is precalculated for ease of use of the pregenerated characters. There's no need to know how things are calculated when the stats don't change.


----------



## kclark (Feb 28, 2008)

I really like Mage Hand. 
As a minor action I can see it being used to pull out potions and scrolls from your backpack. For a move action you can pass a potion over to any ally within 5 squares and minor action to pour it in their mouth.
I can also see it being used in a dungeon to unpull levers to turn off traps while you are blasting the goblins trying to pull it. Good fun. 

Sleep looks to slow anyone in the area automatically until they make a save.
If you hit it slows, but allows for the possibility that they nod off if they fail their save.
So it is not an automatic out as they don't fall asleep right away, but they have a round before the sleepiness fully takes effect (or not if they save). Either way they are slowed for a bit.

It seems like the daily powers are the main source of effects that last until a save is made. That should keep the record keeping down and make the saves more interesting.


----------



## Nim (Feb 28, 2008)

kclark said:
			
		

> No. It works the same basic way as in 3.x edition.
> 
> When you throw down a fireball in 4e you roll the damage. Then make an attack roll against everyone in the area. Those whose Reflex defense you hit take full damage, those you miss take 1/2.
> 
> It is exactly the same number of rolls as in 3.x, except that the caster makes the rolls instead of the target. Thus all the rolls add the same bonus, so it probably will go faster.




From the 'Quick Rules Primer' posted today on the Wizards site:



			
				Quick Rules Primer said:
			
		

> Attack actions involve a "hit roll" against any and all targets, so a power that targets all enemies within 1 square requires a separate attack roll against each enemy affected.




Spells might work differently than other powers, of course, but it seems like that would go against this whole 'a power is a power is a power' thing they have going on.


----------



## tresson (Feb 28, 2008)

Nim said:
			
		

> From the 'Quick Rules Primer' posted today on the Wizards site:
> 
> 
> 
> Spells might work differently than other powers, of course, but it seems like that would go against this whole 'a power is a power is a power' thing they have going on.




So you'll be roll the same amount of attack dice in 4e as there would have been saving throw in 3e, (1 for each person in the area of effect)?

If so it looks to be the same amounts of dice roll except one guy gets to roll a hand full or differently coloured dice.


----------



## Snapdragyn (Feb 28, 2008)

Mage Hand can be sustained indefinitely - so every wizard who selects that cantrip has an always-on minor telekinetic effect.

Hrm. That's pretty neat.


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 28, 2008)

Mike posted this humorous bit about kobolds.



> Kobolds
> The monster manual has five hundred monsters in it and, if this module is any sign, they’re all kobolds.




That has got to be one of the funniest comments from the con so far.


----------



## ShinRyuuBR (Feb 28, 2008)

People, I've been posting the transcriptions to this topic: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=220090


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Feb 28, 2008)

mshea said:
			
		

> Sorry for the blurry pics. The iPhone isnt built for good spy photos.



Guess he didn't buy the Spipac software.  


Blurry-shmurry, just keep the good stuff comin.


----------



## Knight Otu (Feb 28, 2008)

Compared to some stuff I've seen on a Magic rumor mill, the pictures are brilliant!

Seriously, the text is (mostly) readable and clear. The problem isn't the blurriness, but the size and in some cases the text being cut off of or text on the back of the sheets shining through. Keep up the good work!


----------



## adamx20 (Feb 28, 2008)

Snapdragyn said:
			
		

> Mage Hand can be sustained indefinitely - so every wizard who selects that cantrip has an always-on minor telekinetic effect.
> 
> Hrm. That's pretty neat.




This is something about 4e that I already like a lot.  Ever since the Warlock came out it would stomp any Sorcerer any Wizard of the same level, IMO.  The Sorcerer and Wizard always had to cast Arcane spells from a bank - where as the Warlock had an idefinite number of Edlritch Blasts.

Thankfully some power is being restored to the Wizard.


----------



## Mistwell (Feb 28, 2008)

Nymrohd said:
			
		

> I for one think that considering how ridiculous the speed players and monsters could move at in 3e was, +2 squares for running is a good change.




Is it really that big a change? Assume a 30' move rate.  In one turn, you can: run 40' as a move action, 40' as another move action, and 40' as a third move action using an action point.  120' in one round is...what a running character could move in 3.5, isn't it?


----------



## Evilhalfling (Feb 28, 2008)

Kahoots said:
			
		

> 5 minutes/6 hours... should be easy enough to track.




welcome to the 7 hour adventuring day.
burn through all abilities, in (30 min) 
rest 6 hours 
burn through all abilities again (30 min) 
go home. 

DDI has just put itself out of my price tolerance.  On top of the 100$ i will be dropping on books? Nope im sticking with Enworld for my online gaming needs. 

Anyone else feel like a rabid Fanboy reading this thread? 

but who cares? this thread rocks.


----------



## malraux (Feb 28, 2008)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Is it really that big a change? Assume a 30' move rate.  In one turn, you can: run 40' as a move action, 40' as another move action, and 40' as a third move action using an action point.  120' in one round is...what a running character could move in 3.5, isn't it?



However, it looks like you no longer have to run in a straight line.  I mean, how often did a dungeon have 120' in a straight line available?


----------



## Mouseferatu (Feb 28, 2008)

Evilhalfling said:
			
		

> welcome to the 7 hour adventuring day.
> burn through all abilities, in (30 min)
> rest 6 hours
> burn through all abilities again (30 min)
> go home.




I'd remind you that 3E had rules preventing you from regaining spells more than once in a 24-hour period, no matter how much you rested.

Not saying anything about 4E specifically. Just saying you might consider that prior solutions to similar problems did, in fact, exist.


----------



## HeinorNY (Feb 28, 2008)

I think it's clear that DAILY powers can only be used once per DAY which means they can only be recharged once per day. I hope.


----------



## WhatGravitas (Feb 28, 2008)

Evilhalfling said:
			
		

> welcome to the 7 hour adventuring day.
> burn through all abilities, in (30 min)
> rest 6 hours
> burn through all abilities again (30 min)
> go home.



Well, as I'm primarily DM, the big win is: Sure, *they* may want to do that! But I don't let them. Now I can hammer on a lot longer, as they have their shiny at-will abilities, without risking a TPK! I like that! Under the 3e model, you risked a TPK, after they overextended.

And I don't like dead characters. I want them alive to suffer.


			
				Evilhalfling said:
			
		

> DDI has just put itself out of my price tolerance.  On top of the 100$ i will be dropping on books? Nope im sticking with Enworld for my online gaming needs.



Well, *I* could afford it, but without more people in my group... who actually want to do that... well, for them, it's easier to stick to a free application, as they're more casual than me.

But the Dragon (and hopefully) Dungeon Magazines for about 6$ per pop? That's about £3, a bit more than a sandwich! And no expensive shipping to UK! Definitively yes!

Cheers, LT.


----------



## Dragonblade (Feb 28, 2008)

ainatan said:
			
		

> I think it's clear that DAILY powers can only be used once per DAY which means they can only be recharged once per day. I hope.




Per Day is a bit of a misnomer. The Primer states clearly that "Per Day" powers refresh if you take an Extended Rest which is equal to 6 hours. Per Encounter powers require a 5 minute Short Rest. So essentially as long as you did nothing for 6 hours every time you used a Daily power, you could use it multiple times in a 24 hour day. Up to 4.

And can WotC or someone please post PDFs of those character sheets, or at least crystal clear scans of them? Please!!!


----------



## ZombieRoboNinja (Feb 29, 2008)

Evilhalfling said:
			
		

> welcome to the 7 hour adventuring day.
> burn through all abilities, in (30 min)
> rest 6 hours
> burn through all abilities again (30 min)
> go home.




I don't think it was ever a goal that you'd be able to adventure full-throttle indefinitely without resting.

The "15-minute adventuring day" thing was annoying because SOME classes (clerics, wizards) could blow all their abilities in 15 minutes, while others had unlimited resources.

In 4e, you seem to have few (but powerful!) daily abilities for ALL classes, and the other major "daily" resource (that we know about) is a limit on how much you get healed, which isn't the kind of thing you could "blow" in one big encounter like you could powerful attack spells in 3e (especially since Second Wind is once per encounter).


----------



## hong (Feb 29, 2008)

Evilhalfling said:
			
		

> welcome to the 7 hour adventuring day.
> burn through all abilities, in (30 min)
> rest 6 hours
> burn through all abilities again (30 min)
> go home.




You can't really burn through all abilities in 30 mins, because healing is one of the per-day things. The only way to burn through that is if you're taking enough of a pounding to need it; by itself, it won't help you kill monsters faster.

And if you're taking enough of a pounding to need it, then it sure sounds like you're having fun!


----------



## HeinorNY (Feb 29, 2008)

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> Per Day is a bit of a misnomer. The Primer states clearly that "Per Day" powers refresh if you take an Extended Rest which is equal to 6 hours. Per Encounter powers require a 5 minute Short Rest. So essentially as long as you did nothing for 6 hours every time you used a Daily power, you could use it multiple times in a 24 hour day. Up to 4.



You couldn't do that in 3E. No reason to think you can in 4E. It's misnomer as much as 3e rules i think.


> And can WotC or someone please post PDFs of those character sheets, or at least crystal clear scans of them? Please!!!



I second that again.


----------



## Doug McCrae (Feb 29, 2008)

I'm not one for gaming conventions but I just want to say it's incredibly cool rousetastic, fun and exciting to be seeing all the new 4e material from D&D Experience and feeling like part of the event. It must be ten times more exciting to be there.

Thanks to everyone for posting all the 4e info and please kill an orc for me. Actually, just make it a goblin. I'm not greedy.


----------



## Rpgraccoon (Feb 29, 2008)

neceros said:
			
		

> By the way, clear sheets posted from another thread: http://www.critical-hits.com/2008/02/28/dd-xp-dungeon-delve-characters/




So, we have a Half-Elf, Halfling, Tiefling, and Dwarf. Hummm 4 down 4 to go. Who played a Human, Elf, Eldarin or Dragonborn? eh I can wait. Just wish I could read the Half-Elf sheet better   . Oh well, can't win em all. Enjoy all


----------



## AZRogue (Feb 29, 2008)

You know, I'm very excited about a lot of these changes. One thing I've noticed, after a bit of thought, is that I like a lot of them better for their synergy and probably wouldn't have liked them nearly so well if taken one at a time out of context.

One thing I might try as a house rule (after playing RAW for a while, of course) is to make a 6 hour rest heal you from your next day's total of surges instead of just to full for free. >.< At least, maybe, if they were on death's door. Probably not necessary, but I'll try it one day, I'm sure.


----------



## SeRiAlExPeRiMeNtS (Feb 29, 2008)

So no one got the large white dragon card from this promotion: http://www.consupport.com/ddxp2008/.asp ?


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 29, 2008)

Mike posted his summary of the day.



> D&D Experience Day 1 Summary
> 
> After a cold ride on the Metro, a cold walk back home, and a warm Korean dinner in my belly, I am finally home.
> 
> ...


----------



## Flynn (Feb 29, 2008)

Thanks, Mike, for doing such a great job of posting details for us and keeping us informed. If you make it to Gen Con, look me up and I'll buy you a beer (or if beer isn't your thing, how about a coke or something?) This has been fantastic.

Looking Forward To Tomorrow,
Flynn


----------



## Shroomy (Feb 29, 2008)

Yeah Mike, I pretty much wore out my F5 button at work today.   The delve sounded pretty tough based on some comments by James Wyatt that I found on his blog:



			
				James Wyatt said:
			
		

> So today, I got my revenge, sort of. No, I didn't kill a black dragon. Instead, I killed three other PCs, with a black dragon.
> 
> So here I am at D&D Experience. This morning was the big seminar, at which didn't really have to do anything. Then a quick lunch, then I ran one of the Living Forgotten Realms preview adventures, one of the 4e preview games we're showing off at this show. It's a pretty straightforward slog through a kobold lair, with encounters that increase in difficulty and complexity until you get to the boss at the end.
> 
> Six 1st-level characters ought to face an encounter worth 600 XP. The 4th-level solo black dragon was worth 875 XP. Getting every character (and I mean *hitting* every character) with its breath weapon during the surprise round certainly got the characters off on the wrong foot. But they didn't even bloody the thing before finally fleeing, leaving three bodies behind.


----------



## SlyFlourish (Feb 29, 2008)

*Black Dragon*

Yeah, I didn't play the delve but we had to fight a black dragon at the sixth hour of our adventure and it was a disaster. I want to ask Mike Mearls about this tomorrow if I get a chance. I thought the whole intent of the epic-level beasts was to avoid having encounters where the beasts are three levels higher than the PCs. A 4th level dragon SHOULD kill a party of level 1s but if an encounter is well designed, should they ever face one to begin with? I felt really powerful at level 1 but a dragon? Come on. I keep thinking there was some parlay we could have done instead of trying to fight it head on.

As for per-day abilities, it isn't always just one. I think my wife's Paladin had multiple lay-on-hands abilities per day.

BTW, I didn't get to talk much about cleric healing but it works really well. The cleric has an ability as a swift action to heal 1d8 + some bonus + the target's Healing Surge. This lets a cleric heal someone pretty substantially (over 1/2 the fighter's hitpoints at one point) as a swift action and still do some other major thing.

Also, the addition of "action points" as a new attack action usable once per every two combats or so, is pretty amazing. I didn't really get much of a chance to use mine, however.

After a few hours to digest, I can't wait to head back in!


----------



## odhen (Feb 29, 2008)

Fighting dragons at level 1?

Was it a young dragon, at least?


----------



## Wolfwood2 (Feb 29, 2008)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> So it looks like they have Insight and Perception and then Passive versions of each which have a +10 bonus to them.  Which I assume is basically like Taking 10.
> 
> Passive I assume would be when the DM rolls in secret to see if you notice anything on your own.  Whereas the regular skills are when you are actively looking for something.




Or if you're trying to use Stealth to sneak past a group of orcs, you roll against their passive Perception scores.

Rolling on each side introduces too much variability.  It was always a problem when one character would try to hide or bluff from a group.  Somebody in the opposition was bound to roll high.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Feb 29, 2008)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> So, does this mean a 20 foot radius Fireball blast (which now takes up all 64 squares) will require a seperate "to hit" roll for each enemy in the square? So much for reducing needless rolls. Why not have it like SWSE Area Effect? You roll once, and apply it against each target's Reflex Defense.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




As I said, and mshea confirmed it in his blog...



			
				mshea said:
			
		

> Adding to that problem, the die rolls are fewer but not that much fewer. Area spells still require rolling lots of dice, but instead of 10d6 and twelve saving throws its whatever D whatever and twelve attack rolls. That’s still a lot of dice for a player to roll. I understand that a single attack roll for hitting a variety of beasts could swing too far one way or the other, but I can see a fireball taking a lot of time.


----------



## Ipissimus (Feb 29, 2008)

I don't really think you're meant to survive the Black Dragon. I think they're trying to show how tough the game can get. Those who win that fight probably got a better grip on the new game mechanics earlier and were clever in thier approach to the fight.

The whole party getting caught in a breath weapon in a surprise round is extremely nasty in whatever edition you play.


----------



## hong (Feb 29, 2008)

Ha ha, Mearls confirms that the killer dragon was put there basically to show naysayers that characters in 4E, despite all their munchy powers and extra hit points and whatnot, can still die.

http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=996256

Of course, the dragon in HIS game still died....


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Feb 29, 2008)

> I just saw that Gamer Zero posted a whole pile of videos from D&D Experience including just about the entire design and product release talk. That’s going to beat out my little iphone updates.



Dude. You beat Zero by what, 12 hours or more? Your tidbits of info, comments and pictures (fuzzy or not) are GREAT. I for one appreciate you putting in the effort of updating us via you're freaking PHONE! No matter how fancy it is, that can't be an easy thing. And it's almost real time as well. You're probably the FIRST person to post most of what you get out to us. Which means ENWorld knows before anyone else what's going on there. You rock, bro.


God, I sound like a frakking cheerleader. I'm done.


----------



## WhatGravitas (Feb 29, 2008)

hong said:
			
		

> Ha ha, Mearls confirms that the killer dragon was put there basically to show naysayers that characters in 4E, despite all their munchy powers and extra hit points and whatnot, can still die.
> 
> http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=996256
> 
> Of course, the dragon in HIS game still died....



That's pretty funny... I guess that shows that Mearls *IS* evil. Because evil plots never succeed! 

Cheers, LT.


----------



## Plane Sailing (Feb 29, 2008)

Would you care to comment on the monsters you fought? What were they (obviously lots of kobolds!), how did they differ, how many hp did they seem to have, what attacks did they use, what special actions did they take?

Enquiring minds want to  run their 4e-lite dungeon on Sunday know!

Cheers


----------



## dm4hire (Feb 29, 2008)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> Would you care to comment on the monsters you fought? What were they (obviously lots of kobolds!), how did they differ, how many hp did they seem to have, what attacks did they use, what special actions did they take?
> 
> Enquiring minds want to  run their 4e-lite dungeon on Sunday know!
> 
> Cheers




I agree here.  If you could let us know how they were, any information you might of gleaned to allow us to piece one together to fight one with the party now that we have all of the PCs.  Any information would be great.

You've been doing a great job Mike, don't let all the fancy stuff everyone else has done bother you.  You were first in almost everything.  I think this has been the most detailed convention I've heard about without being there and it isn't even over yet!


----------



## Plane Sailing (Feb 29, 2008)

n.b. I've just noticed the Kobold Skirmisher stat block which is great (and I can be pretty sure that if I've got 3 players on Sunday and I want an encounter to give them 100xp each I can face them against 3 of these beggars.  I'm really liking the look of 'xp values to group together monsters'.

I'm guessing that the real fun comes when a group of monsters includes skirmishes, brutes, lurkers, controllers and such like all hanging around together...


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Feb 29, 2008)

By the way Mike: Thank's a lot for all your info!


----------



## vagabundo (Feb 29, 2008)

I've just suggested that I run a little dungeon this weekend using those stats, maybe I could convert some of the Mini creatures over and have it as the end level bady? hmmm


----------



## Lord Sessadore (Feb 29, 2008)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Dude. You beat Zero by what, 12 hours or more? Your tidbits of info, comments and pictures (fuzzy or not) are GREAT. I for one appreciate you putting in the effort of updating us via you're freaking PHONE! No matter how fancy it is, that can't be an easy thing. And it's almost real time as well. You're probably the FIRST person to post most of what you get out to us. Which means ENWorld knows before anyone else what's going on there. You rock, bro.
> 
> 
> God, I sound like a frakking cheerleader. I'm done.



Seconded!  Except that I don't want to sound like a cheerleader ...  Still, what everyone says is true:  you're hours ahead of everyone else.  So instead of waiting anxiously until the evening to see what happened today, we get to be glued to our monitors refreshing your blog all day!  (Don't get me wrong - it's great.)


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## FunkBGR (Feb 29, 2008)

MShea - 

Keep up the good work. I like your updates. 

Thanks for doing this.

 - Bryan


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## Lonely Tylenol (Feb 29, 2008)

Hey, new post circa 5 minutes ago.  The DoD mini cards have 4E stats on them.  Mike's iPhone isn't up to the task, so is there anyone there who can do a decent scan of these?  People are gearing up to run mini 4E test games of their own, and more statblocks would be super for that.


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## SlyFlourish (Mar 1, 2008)

*stat cards*

I posted some higher resolution pics of the stat cards at:

http://flickr.com/photos/mikeshea/2300560387/sizes/o/


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## Oldtimer (Mar 1, 2008)

When you can find the time, it would be awesome if you could give us mechanical details on that exciting chase through town. How did all those skill checks work?


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## hong (Mar 2, 2008)

hong said:
			
		

> Ha ha, Mearls confirms that the killer dragon was put there basically to show naysayers that characters in 4E, despite all their munchy powers and extra hit points and whatnot, can still die.
> 
> http://forums.gleemax.com/showthread.php?t=996256
> 
> Of course, the dragon in HIS game still died....



Mearls is now 0 for 2 with his dragon.

HAW HAW!


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## A'koss (Mar 2, 2008)

hong said:
			
		

> Mearls is now 0 for 2 with his dragon.
> 
> HAW HAW!



One more strike and I'm revoking his DM badge.


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## Plane Sailing (Mar 3, 2008)

Mike,

On behalf of ENworld I'd like to say a mighty thankyou for your blogging, which has been entertaining and useful.

I'm unstickying this now since the event is over.

Cheers


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## SlyFlourish (Mar 4, 2008)

*Thank you*

Thank you - it was a pleasure to write and know people were reading. I was glad to share my experiences.


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## hong (Mar 4, 2008)

Thanks Mike!


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