# BattleStar Galactica #20:Daybreak (2) Season 4--2009/Finale



## Truth Seeker (Mar 20, 2009)

*Daybreak (2)*



Writers:Ronald D. Moore

Director:Michael Rymer

Stars:Grace Park (Sharon "Athena" Agathon/Sharon "Boomer" Valerii)
Tricia Helfer (Caprica Six/Head Six)
James Callis (Gaius Baltar/Head Baltar)
Jamie Bamber (Lee "Apollo" Adama)
Mary McDonnell (Laura Roslin)
Edward James Olmos (William Adama)
Katee Sackhoff (Kara "Starbuck" Thrace)

Recurring Role:Callum Keith Rennie (Leoben Conoy)
Tiffany Lyndall-Knight (Cylon Hybrid)
Leela Savasta (Tracey Anne)
Brad Dryborough (Lt. Hoshi)
Lara Gilchrist (Paulla Schaffer)
Kerry Norton (Layne Ishay)
Mark A. Sheppard (Romo Lampkin)
Leah Cairns (Margaret "Racetrack" Edmondson)
Colin Lawrence (Hamish "Skulls" McCall)
Darcy Laurie (Dealino)
Colin Corrigan (Marine Allan Nowart)
Iliana Gomez-Martinez (Hera Agathon)
Rick Worthy (Simon)
Dean Stockwell (John Cavil)
Donnelly Rhodes (Doc Cottle)
Kate Vernon (Ellen Tigh)
Michael Trucco (Samuel Anders)
Aaron Douglas (Galen Tyrol)
Bodie Olmos (Brendan "Hot Dog" Costanza)
Tahmoh Penikett (Karl "Helo" Agathon)
Rekha Sharma (Tory Foster)
Matthew Bennett (Aaron Doral)
Michael Hogan (Saul Tigh)

Guest Star: Dan Payne (Sean)
Tobias Mehler (Zak Adama)
Anthony St. John (Marine #2)
Holly Eglinton (Stripper)
Richard Jollymore (Marine #1)
Kevin McNulty (Frank Porthos)
Simone Bailly (Shona)
Ronald D. Moore (Man Reading Magazine (uncredited))
Admiral Adama leads a group of volunteers aboard the Galactica into a dangerous mission to rescue Hera. With the decrepit condition of the ship, Adama understands that this will likely be the final mission of the Galactica.

As the personnel face possible death in the battle, they recall key moments from their time on Caprica before the Cylon holocaust.​


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## Kobold Avenger (Mar 21, 2009)

All of it could happen again...

And there's quite a chance that the original series could have also happened.


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## Kobold Avenger (Mar 21, 2009)

So my thoughts now that it's over:

Well it was amazing seeing marines and centurions vs. centurions old and new.

Looks like I was wrong about Tory making it...

I was thinking that Boomer would have finished what she started back in season 1, but Athena did it for her.

Starbuck really did die, and she really is an angel.

And you can't beat the idea of President Lampkin.


With Hera as mitochondrial Eve, and 150,000 years robots dancing to All Along the Watchtower at the end.  We know it's going to happen again.  And I'm sure those remaining centurions made humanoid bodies for themselves, who eventually became the colonials of the original BSG series (ignoring 1980 of course), even though there's nothing to link that together.


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## possum (Mar 21, 2009)

Wow...  Just wow.  I really enjoyed it, and it's all but confirmed that it's likely to happen again.  While I've read on other sites that there are people complaining, I thought it ended quite well.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 21, 2009)

I enjoyed it.  

I especially enjoyed the redemption of Baltar. Of all the arcs which gave the characters closure, I thought his and Caprica Six's were the best done.

The only part that rang false to me and my wife was Kara. RD  Moore knew that would be controversial, and I can well understand his feeling ill over the Daniel assumptions.

(But really Ron - most of us drank the Kool-aid on that one because that was what you put in our cup, after all.)

And even now, I *far prefer *the notion of a half-Cylon Kara resurrected in some unexplained way - that would ultimately have been "solved" for us in the Caprica series. 

That would have been far more satisfying to me than this "Angel" nonsense. As for Evolution + Divine intervention leads to the human race on Earth, that discussion is not going to end well here on ENWorld.  I'll leave it as "GAH!".

As for the divine, I thought Head Baltar and Head Six filled that role in a psychotic non-tangible way that was acceptable and brought a full measure of closure to their tale in a very satisfying way.

Kara = Angel? 

No.  Just..."no".

_The Scrolls of Pythia_ proved to be prophetic in the end after all, and as soon as Earth was named "Earth", Roslin's number was up. I thought that was handled well, though I'm not sure I liked the idea that Admiral Adama lives the rest of his life talking to a pile of rocks. Not the ending for him I prefer to think of. I preffer to think he grieves and then goes and finds Lee.

Ah well.

Here's hoping that _Caprica _will keep the flame alive.


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## Rl'Halsinor (Mar 21, 2009)

Bittersweet -- which is the only proper way they could have closed this series out.  

One thing I didn't like: Baltar.  The man needed his judgment day and it was reinforced for me when they do the flash back between he and 6 and says, "I can get you a sneak at the A frame."


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 21, 2009)

Rl'Halsinor said:


> Bittersweet -- which is the only proper way they could have closed this series out.
> 
> One thing I didn't like: Baltar.  The man needed his judgment day and it was reinforced for me when they do the flash back between he and 6 and says, "I can get you a sneak at the A frame."




Baltar was guilty of breaching a law, but he  - in no way - planned or was repsonsible for the extinction of the human race.

He didn't know - and had no reason to know. If he had known, he would not have done it.

I prefer redemption. He had his trial. He was forgiven. Season 4 was Baltar learning to forgive himself.

Besdies, for a man who had an angel living in his head, he turned out pretty well


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## Mark (Mar 21, 2009)

It would be interesting if a new person picked up this property every 25 years so that the meta-life of the show mirrors the interior philosophy of the show, in that it keeps happening again and again, upgrading the vision as technology advances, and showing that there is more than one path to the loop.


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## DonTadow (Mar 21, 2009)

I thought it was ok. Hated the angle thing and i don't buy 50k people agreeing to ditch all known technology and live in the wilderness.


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## Mark (Mar 21, 2009)

DonTadow said:


> I thought it was ok. Hated the angle thing and i don't buy 50k people agreeing to ditch all known technology and live in the wilderness.





You've never lived through technology rising up and killing all but the remaining 50K people in the universe.


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## stonegod (Mar 21, 2009)

Mark said:


> You've never lived through technology rising up and killing all but the remaining 50K people in the universe.



And they did try technological colonization once and that didn't work out so well (even before the Cylon's arrived). Though I am sympathetic to the "don't think all 40k would agree" argument.

It was an interesting way to end the series. I would have preferred the Daniel-Kara theory than the Angel-Kara theory, but hey, writers are weird that way. Time to break out the Angel-Daniel-Kara theories now....


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## Wycen (Mar 21, 2009)

Finding earth in this manner would seem to invalidate the difference between human and cylon, but more of a poke in the eyes would be that Hera was thus rendered pointless.

Of course the fact that Baltar didn't end up trapped under tons of stone annoys me, but I did like the first half, with all the space battle, though some of the shots with the CGI original cylons seemed, uh, not sure what the word is, seemless, that's it.  It wasn't seemless.  They looked fake.  The "new" centurions didn't.  I don't know what was up with that.

Meh.


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## Mouseferatu (Mar 21, 2009)

Anybody up to a _real_ challenge? 

I watched the first season of BSG, but no more.

Anyone feel they have sufficient fortitude to spoil me on how the series ended, in such a way that I can actually understand it? 

(It's not important that I know every little detail--I know we're talking 4 years of TV here--just enough that I have a solid sense of how all the basic issues evolved and were wrapped up.)

I know it's asking a lot. That's why I said "challenge."


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## Truth Seeker (Mar 21, 2009)

There was a plan, a ancient plan by a higher force...

(someone else fills that in)



Mouseferatu said:


> Anybody up to a _real_ challenge?
> 
> I watched the first season of BSG, but no more.
> 
> ...


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## Bishop Odo (Mar 21, 2009)

The entire agrarian, walk away from technology was a big reach. Most of the people really where not doing what needed to be done to survive, I know it a TV show with limited in budget, but how many knew anything about farming... Medicine, I mean Hotdog’s kid is as good as dead, yea just a few holes.

But, it’s over and time to move on....


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## DonTadow (Mar 21, 2009)

stonegod said:


> And they did try technological colonization once and that didn't work out so well (even before the Cylon's arrived). Though I am sympathetic to the "don't think all 40k would agree" argument.
> 
> It was an interesting way to end the series. I would have preferred the Daniel-Kara theory than the Angel-Kara theory, but hey, writers are weird that way. Time to break out the Angel-Daniel-Kara theories now....



So make a no more evil robots law .  They showed consisant infighting among the survivors the whole series, it was one of the things that made the show feel real.  And then in the end they all adopot a hive mindand say lets ditch technology. I'm not talking robot servants. I"m talking basic stuff they've gotten use to like plumbing, lights, coffee, strong construction against harsh elements, guns, heck.. music.  I imagine that the rela conversation starts out with Lee suggesting this idea, and then being met halfway, where some of the population keep their technology, possibly in egypt and greece, but can not advance it either further and must use it to prepare the next generation nor contact any of the natives.  Eventually these two nations bio weapon each other over a dispute and then the hippies point and say see, no more technology.  It just seems kinda of a leap of faith  they want the readers to take to believe this.  Even accidentally, its hardpressed for us not to reinvent basic needs when we know they exist. Warmer clothing, better defensive weapons, safer methods to cook food.  

If you told  a few hundred kids they could no longer have any of their favorite toys, but instead can have a nice stick, you're libel to have a riot

Things seemed to have worked very well on New Caprica until the occupation.  

In any case, my wife was watching the season finale (the last hour), she had given up on the show  sometime a year ago because it seemed to have gotten off track.  She watched this and she said, "wow, i'm glad i stopped watching this. This seems like the worst ending ever for a show".  And whereas i thought it was a lot better than worst (putting the events in a slightly better than mediocre, and the actual ending in an unlikely ending catagory) i can see her point.


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## Mage of Spellford (Mar 21, 2009)

Well it was a pretty good ending to the series; however rather than the planet being Earth I think that it would have been more interesting if the planet had turned out to be Kobol of the past.

That would have really borne out the whole "It has all happened..." motif better methinks.

As for the Kara being an angel, how does that make her the harbinger of death?

I wish that they had ended the show with the final scene being the Galactica coming over the moon with the Earth just beyond, they could have left the question open as to whether the timeframe was now-a-days, the past, or the future.

I was so expecting the final words to be that speech from the original series about "Some believe that life here began somewhere out there..."

MarkK


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## Wolf72 (Mar 21, 2009)

GAH, did the show run over a few minutes? (I still use a VCR for this stuff and set it to end at 11:05) ... the last scene I have is Adama talking to the pile of Roslin's rocks.  I'm guessing that was pretty much it though.

I don't know about the giving up everything, like another poster said I didn't live a life where technology nearly eradicated the human race ... but I don't think I would sent the fleet away.

I'd the idea of exploring to much ... not walking but getting into a fold ready ship and going (but again, I'm earthbound not spacebound like they were).

No cities? ... or no cities yet? ... language, I'm guessing they'd (or their descendants) would meet up again.

I hope they kept some books, or data pads so they can relearn how to build ships, analyze plants ...

How many of skin-jobs were left? (they should have shown more too).  Six's are combat beasts, I wonder how they'd fare in this new world.

What holocaust caused the destruction of Cylon Earth (who did it? other Cylons I assume)


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## Ghostwind (Mar 21, 2009)

Hmmm so where does Atlantis fit in with this? An area where survivors decided to make use of their technology? Lots of goodies there.


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## Cergorach (Mar 21, 2009)

It was a good ending for the series, most if not all the open threads where closed, whether satisfactory or not.

Some things that have me wondering, the original series seems to have happened before the current series, due to the older style centurions. That kind of means that the eighties happened at least twice, which kind of makes you wonder ;-)

Ty with his patch reminds me of Odin, which could make sense, because these people are kind of like gods to the natives (not to mention all the Greek god names the characters have).

The whole God/Angel issue, I think people take it way to literary. If a thing is advanced enough, people will quickly see it as something supernatural and try to cast it in their own religious frame of mind. Not to mention that (head) Baltar says "You know he doesn't like that name.", indicating that whoever 'God' is, he thinks he either doesn't deserve the name or doesn't describe him well enough (or that it's a name that belongs to someone/something else). I was thinking on an advanced computer program that did evolve while the 'five' where surviving as humans. (Head) Baltar only mentioned the colonies and original earth, either he was incomplete or only knows about those instances (meaning he's no older then old earth).

In all it closes the storyline nicely, but leaves room for a lot of speculation, which is good in my book.
*
@mouseferatu*
The series takes a different turn after the first season, more mystical and more drama. I would advice you watch the rest of the series on DVD and skip the boring (and stretched out) parts of the series, the overall story arc is interesting enough, but often the execution of the individual episodes leaves much to be desired.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 21, 2009)

Bishop Odo said:


> The entire agrarian, walk away from technology was a big reach. Most of the people really where not doing what needed to be done to survive, I know it a TV show with limited in budget, but how many knew anything about farming... Medicine, I mean Hotdog’s kid is as good as dead, yea just a few holes




More likely very few of them knew how to farm and therefore, ultimately, they didn't.

They did know how to hunt and gather though. And there was no lack of game or wild foodstuffs. They were plopped down into Eden and dispersed.

And, ultimately, took out the Neanderthals.

I admit - a stretch. You can't plop down that many sophisticated people who knew how to read and write and have every vestige of tech or civilization vanish. 

But hey - it's a TV show. I was willing to give the writers that sort of latitude.

Head angel/demons - might allow for that too.

Though the whole Kara=Angel thing? No. They earned some well deserved scorn on that one.


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## Rl'Halsinor (Mar 21, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> Baltar was guilty of breaching a law, but he  - in no way - planned or was repsonsible for the extinction of the human race.
> 
> He didn't know - and had no reason to know. If he had known, he would not have done it.
> 
> ...




But he was willing to breach security for a woman.  Ignorance is no excuse under the law.  And his actions were far from ignorant.  The principle of what we sow we reap is firmly in place.  In other words, you can't control the consequences of your willful actions -- and millions paid for it.  And that trial was a mockery.


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## Steel_Wind (Mar 21, 2009)

I already said that he was guilty of breaking a law.

No argument.  And as for the reason that he did it - _good_!! It was an innocuous reason and, when placed in its context, suggests that no harm could have come from it.

You are on a legal level,  confusing the issue of _mens rea_. When we intend to do an act, we are responsible for the act. One is guilty of committing the crime, sure. But that is a far cry from saying that one intends all consequences of the act, reasonable and unreasonable - or even to suggest that Baltar was reckless concerning the reasonably possible outcomes.  There was no reasonable basis for Baltar to expect that the destruction of the 12 Colonies was a possible outcome of giving Six access to the mainframe. EVERYONE knew the Cylons were toasters and they had no human allies.

If you steal $10,000.00, and that act ends up unleashing a modified ebola virus upon the world - are you morally cuplable for that result, or simply guilty of the crime of theft? 

While that does not militate against his guilt, it certainly DOES militate against the sentence.  He's not morally culpable for the consequence of what happened.

The point is that he was guilty of breaking a law. Not morally guilty for betraying the human race to its doom.

The one thing Baltar did in the whole series that was an act of evil for which he really should not have been forgiven was his giving the nuke to Gina. That was an entirely different matter - and he was responsible for that.  If he avoided Judgment - he dodged the bullet for that one, not the destruction of the Colonies.

I was always a little ticked at the writers of BSG for the petulant act of Baltar giving the nuke to Gina. They had done a fine job - before and after that one act, of leaving Baltar as an ambiguous man that the viewers could identify with on many levels. A man who was  neither good nor evil and did things for selfish reasons, but not for chaotic or vile ones.  That bit of writing was an event the show could have done without.  

I would have preferred if he had allowed Gina to get the nuke unintentionally - and so was on the hook for the nuke by rescuing Gina in the first place, and being careless to let the nuke fall into her hands.  That would have been more in keeping with the overall theme and arc of Baltar throughout the series.  A selfish and negligent man, but not an evil one.


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## Abisashi (Mar 21, 2009)

They settled down on Earth intending to interbreed with the natives, but thanks to the Baltar and Caprica Angels, we know that mitochondrial Eve was Hera - which means everyone else's children died off, or that they couldn't interbreed after all.

What was the point of the Opera House scene? It was made to be a big deal, but it felt so irrelevant.

This ending was terrible because, despite random prophecy and visions, they never really set it up; it was still a pretty hard science fiction show until the last hour or so, and then did a sharp turn. It would have taken 5-10 minutes worth of dialog before and after to have it make sense (Kara talks to Lee-Oban, Baltar or Caprica talk to their angels, the President has an informative vision, etc).

I might not be so disappointed, but the fact that they decided way in advance that it was only going to be four seasons made me assume that they knew what was going on and how they were going to end it - but they didn't, and it showed.


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## Abisashi (Mar 21, 2009)

Steel_Wind said:


> I was always a little ticked at the writers of BSG for the petulant act of Baltar giving the nuke to Gina. They had done a fine job - before and after that one act, of leaving Baltar as an ambiguous man that the viewers could identify with on many levels. A man who was  neither good nor evil and did things for selfish reasons, but not for chaotic or vile ones.  That bit of writing was an event the show could have done without.




I agree completely.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 21, 2009)

I'm perfectly happy with the whole ending. At first I was a little iffy about the settlers thing, but after a while I realized that I didn't have a better ending for the show, and am quite satisfied with this one.

As for Hera being the mitochondrial Eve, the others can still have babies, I'd think, if somehow, effectively, Hera shares DNA with all of the humans and all of the Cylons.

Kara as an angel (post-death) was perfectly fine by me, too. I assume that the whole notion of God/Gods in the show is one of an unknowable intelligence beyond our ken. Doesn't have to be a matter of religion at all. The Daniel red herring was fine by me, kept me guessing.

One thing I was uncertain about, though: do Cylons age? Die of old age? I guess so, else they'd be around in the alt-present.


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## Wolf72 (Mar 21, 2009)

Kara being an angel or related to one isn't to far a stretch ... I'm guessing there's some sort of deciding to take human form limits an 'angel''s ability.

I just don't see giving up everything ... heck set up an automated base for when their descendants finally make it back to the stars.  what kind of stories will they tell their descendants?

does this mean that people who see visions have cylon DNA? or are they related to the gods? ... have there always been advanced humans among the colonials?


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## NewJeffCT (Mar 21, 2009)

Cergorach said:


> The series takes a different turn after the first season, more mystical and more drama. I would advice you watch the rest of the series on DVD and skip the boring (and stretched out) parts of the series, the overall story arc is interesting enough, but often the execution of the individual episodes leaves much to be desired.




Great way to put it.  The overall story arc was very good, but sometimes it was not executed well.  They had two great episodes earlier this last season with the coup & its aftermath, but then I think the three episodes after that (before the 2 part finale started) could have been condensed into two episodes, or even a 90 minute special.


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## El Mahdi (Mar 21, 2009)

Mouseferatu said:


> Anybody up to a _real_ challenge?
> 
> I watched the first season of BSG, but no more.
> 
> ...




Well, I'll give it a try.

You've seen the first season which means you know about the prophecies about a dying leader leading the remnants of mankind to earth, right?

Okay, here goes- (please forgive any typos and omissions - I'm trying to be succinct but typing this while I'm at home with the flu).


*SPOILER ALERT*


Throughout the history of mankind and cylons there has been a repeating cycle of war between humans and cylons, and civil war between humans and humans, and cylons and cylons. The destruction of the colonies isn't the first time an apocalypse has befallen either humans or the cylons.

The Cylons had a plan (which will be highlighted in the upcoming movie _Battlestar Galactica: The Plan_ - which will tell the story of the destruction of the colonies from the standpoint of the Cylons). It wasn't simply to erradicate humans, they just wanted _most_ of them dead. The Cylons then took some survivors and ran experiments on them in the attempt of learning how to breed (whether cylon with cylon, or cylon with human). The Cylons were apparently motivated by what they felt was the will of their god and a desire for true procreation.

At the end of the series, you'll realize that this "God" has been pulling the strings from the start, throughout the endless cycle of destruction and rebuilding. This "God" is never clearly defined. But, we do know it's an entity of great power, outside of space and time, and not limited by our definitions of good and evil. This "God" has been subtly guiding mankind and Cylons, through all of these endless cycles, with the purpose of apparently perfecting the species (eliminating weaknesses such as hate, etc., and create a society and culture based around love).

After the destruction of the colonies and searching for Earth for a while, the survivors find a habitable planet in season three (but it's not Earth). It's definitely not a garden spot, but it is livable (about like Iceland in the summer). The fleet splits, with some deciding to colonize the planet (named New Caprica), and others deciding to stay with the fleet. However the Cylons find the colony. They begin running an experiment on whether Cylons and Humans can live together (with the Cylons in charge of course). The Cylons rule in an almost "occupying force" manner, much like the Nazis did in WWII. Torture and imprisonment are common, with incentives for informing on malcontents. A resistance group forms. Eventually, the Galactica returns, working in concert with the resistance, and frees mankind from the Cylons (Again). During this time Baltar is the puppet President. Eventually Baltar will be charged with War Crimes, but is found inocent. edit: Also, while on New Caprica, Saul Tigh (who is a member of the resistance) discovers that his wife Ellen is collaborating with and giving information about the resistance to the Cylons. In order to protect their plans for the "Rescue", Saul kills Ellen by poisoning her.

Eventually, the fleet discovers Kobol (the planet which is the origins of everyone in the 12 colonies). Their is virtually no animal life and almost know evidence of any past civilization, except for some barely discernable ruins. The Cylons however, also find Kobol. It's a race to see who can find the path to Earth in the ruins of the Kobol Opera House first. This is where the "Dream Scenes" in the intact Opera House happen. It's where we see Athena (an 8), and Laura Roslin chasing after Hera (the Half-Cylon/Half-Human girl - created out of love - apparently the missing ingredient for breeding between humans and cylons). Hera is picked up by Baltar and Caprica 6 and taking through a doorway before Laura and Athena can get to her. Also, there is a flash, but they don't show the faces, of the five unkown Cylons. This is also seen by a number 3 (known as D'anna) played by Lucy Lawless. Because of her revelations, she is viewed by some of the other Cylons (especially the number ones, or Cavils) as a destabilizing force, and are "boxed" so that they can't cause problems. However, both the Humans and Cylons are forced to evacuate Kobol when it's sun goes nova.

After this, a civil war takes place within the Cylon culture, mostly driven by the number ones intention of "lobotomizing" the centurions and raiders because they are becoming too "free thinking". This free thinking was possibly taking place due to the influence of "God". The Cylons split with the Ones (Cavil), Fours (Simon), Fives (Aaron), and one Eight (Boomer) on one side - and the Twos (Leoban), one unboxed Three (D'anna), the Sixes, and the rest of the Eights on the other. We find out later that the Sevens (known as Daniel) were boxed a long time ago (before the series) due to them being a little too philosophical and introspective. During the war, resurrection technology is destroyed for both sides, introducing a "mortality" factor to the Cylons for the first time.

Eventually, from following information found on Kobol, and from information a returned from death Starbuck has, the Humans and one half of the Cylons (the Twos, D'anna, the Sixes, and the Eights) finally find Earth. However, the planet is nothing but ruins with virtually no life (minimal plant life) and highly irradiated soil. Apparently the world was destroyed in a planet wide nuclear war. Some skeletal remains are found and tested. This leads to a Revelation that "Earth" (the 13th colony) was entirely populated with human-like Cylons.

What's also revealed at this time is that five cylons survived the apocalypse on Earth, the so-called "final five", and are now living among Humans (believing they are Humans also). They are Chief Galen Tyrell (Chief Engineer of Galactica), Samuel Anders (once a sports star on Caprica but now a Viper pilot and husband of Starbuck), Saul Tigh (XO of Galactica), Torry Foster (President Roslin's Chief Aid), and Ellen Tigh (wife of Saul Tigh). They left "Earth" after it's apocalypse nearly 20,000 years before the beginning of the series, in a non-FTL vessel traveling near the speed of light (with the expected relativistic effects). In the intervening 20,000 years, Humans once again create "Cylons" (the neverending cycle thing again). The five arrive in Cylon space after the first Cylon War (50 years before the series). The five "create" the Eight human-like Cylon models (the number 13 popping up again) and also give them Resurection technology. The Five each a carry a piece of the knowledge it takes to create Ressurection technology in their minds. Seperately they are useless, together they can recreate it.  edit:We also discover that Ellen "awoke" on a resurection ship after Saul killed her on New Caprica, with all of her memories restored. Eventually she escapes with Boomer (just before Cavill is to have Ellen executed) and they find their way to Galactica.

Needless to say, after Humans and Cylons find Earth ruined, and peice together their shared history, there is a fleetwide depression that takes hold. Suicide's begin to increase. There seems to be absolutely no hope. Then, there's a mutiny on board Galactica, led by Felix Geata and Tom Zerek (Ritchard Hatch). Zerek has the colonial council executed. Eventually the Mutiny is foiled. Adama regains control of the ship and Geata/Zerek are executed.  edit:Also, Sam Anders (Starbuck's husband and one of the "Five") is shot in the head during the mutiny.  While he is being prepped for surgery he starts remembering everything about his and the "Fives" pasts, and starts telling them.  However, before he can tell them everything, he goes into surgery.  He survives physically but comes out of the surgery mostly brain dead.

After this, Adama decides that they aren't going to go out like this. They are going to survive, and begin looking for a new planet to live on. Cylons and Humans begin working together towards those ends. Also at this time, it's discovered that Galactica herself is falling apart, with debilitating cracks in her superstructure. The ship that has been their home and life is dying. The Cylons begin working together with the Galactica crew to save the ship by using "biologic" Cylon technology to strengthen her skeleton. What sets up the beginning of the end is when Boomer (an Eight) kidnaps Hera (the Human-Cylon hybrid child of Athena and Helo) and takes her too the Cylon colony on the orders of Cavil (a One). Eventually the fleet discovers where Hera was taken to and a rescue mission is planned. A mission that may very well be one way, and probably the last mission for the dying Galactica. Cavil believes that Hera is the key to "Gods" plan.

In the final episode, the Galactica jumps in to where the Cylon colony is, in the acretion disc of a Black Hole. There's only one way in, which will immediately put the Galactica within point blank range of the Cylon colony. The Galactica battle plan is multi pronged, use the wounded Sam Anders (who is partially brain dead and acting as a type of base-ship hybrid) to disrupt the hybrid controlling the Cylon Colony (hopefully disabling their guns temporarily), launch vipers to keep off Raiders, ram the colony with the Galactica in order to off load boarding troops (made up of humans, human model cylons, and cylon centurions), and having a squadron of Raptors sneak in the back way and rescue Hera during the ensuing battle. On board the colony, the Galactica troops find themselves fighting new type and old type (original series BSG) centurions. Boomer betrays the cylon colony and gives Hera to the rescuing force (Starbuck, Apollo, Athena, and Helo). Athena then executes Boomer. They make it back to Galactica where Baltar and Caprica Six are holding the line against centurion boarders.

In the climactic scene, Cavil and some centurions infiltrate Galactica where there's a showdown in the CIC. Cavil (the number One) grabs Hera and holds a gun to her head, with everyone on Galactica aiming at Cavill. Baltar attemps to talk Cavill down (and actually does a pretty good job) and Saul Tigh promises to give Cavill Resurection technology in exchange for Hera. Cavill agrees. A data link is made between Galactica and the Cylon colony so that the "Five" can transmit the technical data for Resurection technology to them. Unfortunately, during the "sharing" between the "Five" (necessary in order to bring all of the knowledge together) Chief Tyrell sees in Torries mind that she killed his wife (Callie). He breaks the link and attacks Torry, killing her by breaking her neck. The Cylon colony sees this as a betrayal (since the data feed ends with this event) and begins re-attacking Galactica. Cavill, in true cowards form, commits suicide rather than being taken captive by Galactica's crew. Adama orders Starbuck to jump them out anywhere (she does not know the rendezvous coordinates for the fleet). She sets coordinates based on a song her father taught her (revealed in dreams prior to this event - it also seems to be the same song that the "Five" kept hearing in their heads which eventually lead them to eachother and the realization they were Cylons). This final jump leads them to Earth - _Our_ Earth - but Galactica's back is broken and will never jump again. We are treated to the view of Galactica cruising over our moon to our Earth, with the African continent clearly recognizable as they begin to orbit. They contact the rest of the fleet which eventually rendexvous with Galactica in orbit around our Earth.

After sending parties to the surface, we learn that this is our Earth, but in our far distant past, where early modern man is still living in Africa, specifically 150,000 years ago. On the advice of Lee (Apollo), the surviving Humans and cylons decide to not build a new civilzation, but to live with the land and pass on the "best" of humanity to the humans of Earth (our language, etc. but not our hate, wars and technology). Laura Roslin dies while Adama is flying her over the surface of what looks like Lake Victoria. Adama buries her on a hill where he intends to build a cabin and live out the rest of his days in solitude. Baltar and Caprica Six learn that the Six that Baltar kept seeing in his head, and the Baltar that Six kept seeing in her head, are actually Angels of God who were sent to them to help guide mankind (that apparently included the necessity of the destruction of the colonies). The Centurions are given their freedom and depart in the Basestar for points unknown, to live and evolve on their own. We can only assume that the Cylon Colony (where the other half of the cylons are) will eventually die out due to no resurection technology and their inability to breed. The fleet is flown into the Sun by Sam Anders after all of the colonies survivors settle on Earth.

150,000 years later, and we are now in our modern world. In a conversation between the Baltar and Six angels, we learn that Hera is "Mitochondrial Eve". They also believe that this time, we may just be able to learn our lesson and end the never-ending cycle of apocalypse and rebirth. It ends to Jimmy Hendrix's _All Along the Watchtower_ with video of modern day robots. Possibly implying that this could all happen again.


*END of SPOILERS*


I really liked the way it ended. It was one wild ride. I especially loved the use of the original theme music as the fleet was flown into the sun. Gave me goosebumps.


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## Mark (Mar 22, 2009)

El Mahdi said:


> Well, I'll give it a try.
> 
> (. . .)
> 
> Okay, here goes- (please forgive any typos and omissions - I'm trying to be succinct but typing this while I'm at home with the flu).





I hope you fell better.  Well done on the summary, I am sure others will add one or two minor things but you've covered a lot of \details I had even forgotten.


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## El Mahdi (Mar 22, 2009)

Mark said:


> I hope you fell better. Well done on the summary, I am sure others will add one or two minor things but you've covered a lot of details I had even forgotten.




Thanks man.  Yeah, I'm sure there's things I've forgotten too.  It's been a wild ride.  A lot happened in those 4 seasons, plus the mini-series, plus the extra series like _Razor_.  (I didn't even touch on _Razor_.)

I don't think there's been a coupling of Sci-Fi and Drama like this since the _2001/2010 Space Odyssey_ movies.  Not only is it some of the best Sci-Fi ever, I'd say it's one of the best dramatic series ever.  Sci-Fi channel (or _"SyFy"_ Channel) is going to be hard pressed to ever top this.  We'll have to see how _Caprica_ and _The Plan_ turn out.


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## Grymar (Mar 22, 2009)

Wonderful series that redefines SciFi and I'm sorry to see it go. Absolutely some of the best acting I've seen on TV. 

As far as the ending...it was always a show that did it their own way, beholden to nothing. I like that not everything was answered and I love that there is still some mystical question. 

The characters in BSG were so very human...deeply flawed, which angered many viewers who couldn't find themselves rooting for such imperfect people.  Yet they continued on without apology, doing things their way.

Guess what?  The end of Battlestar Galatica was the same: doing it there way to tell their (Moore's?) story and you can love it or leave it, but you can't argue that it was ballsy. 

Just like life, you can't always get a perfect, clean ending. And just like life, the line between seemingly opposite things is actually very blurred. Humanity versus Computer. Technology versus Faith.

I loved Tyrol going to become a Celt. I loved that the true love interest of the story was never Starbuck and Apollo, but Baltar and Caprica. I loved that the opera house worked so fraking well with the story. 

And I don't know that I'll ever forget the swelling score of the original Battlestar Galactica theme as the old lady led the rag tag fleet into the Sun.

I never knew I was such a fanboy until this moment.


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## mrtauntaun (Mar 22, 2009)

I thought the first half of the finale was excellent.  Tense, exciting and a visual feast.  Great FX.  I was really hoping for a 'By your Command', but whatcha gonna do.

The second half, meh.  So many problems.  Boomer paying back Adama was contrived.  The opera house vision was rather lame, chasing her around the ship?  That's it?  I waited YEARS to see that?  Why did Cavil shoot himself?  I would have thought he would go down fighting, at least.  

And then they just decide to blow up the fleet?  Burn your bridges just like that?  Did New Caprica teach them nothing?  Big reach there.  There could still be other Cylons out there.

I did like the redemption of Baltar.  He was always one of my favorite characters.  I also though the scene betwen the Doc and the President was touching.  Cottle was always a very essential, yet underrated character.  It was also good to see Lee back where he belonged, in uniform.

All in all, the greatness of the first half still outweighs the problems I had with the second.  I still love the show, but I can't help but feel a little disappointed with the ending.  It didn't feel worthy of the years it took to get here.  I do look forward to seeing 'The Plan', maybe that will have some more answers.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 22, 2009)

I loved it. 

I wish, upon landing on Earth, that they had said something like, "Some folks are trying to settle down with the old tech, but that'll only last a few generations at best before they can't fix it anymore. We're going to have to settle in and start over."

I'm a little miffed that the only character who survived who is a minority was Athena. *shrug*

The fight scenes were amazing. 

I did feel a bit disappointed that the opera house vision scene ended up with 6 and Baltar being so benign. I felt like that scene needed some sort of tragedy, but really all that happened was that Laura and Athena had to go find a different door.

But, um, aside from that, it was amazing. 

I'm so glad there wasn't actual time travel.


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## mrtauntaun (Mar 22, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> "Some folks are trying to settle down with the old tech, but that'll only last a few generations at best before they can't fix it anymore. We're going to have to settle in and start over."




You know, that one simple sentence would have done a lot to help me buy that part.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 22, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> I did feel a bit disappointed that the opera house vision scene ended up with 6 and Baltar being so benign. I felt like that scene needed some sort of tragedy, but really all that happened was that Laura and Athena had to go find a different door.




A few people have noted this, but I thought it was a pretty big deal. Hera, who ends up being key to future humanity, brings together Baltar, Caprica Six, and Cavil, all of whom have to be together in the same place in order to set in motion the events that bring an end to the war, including the interference of the angels. Roslyn and Boomer discover that, despite the feeling that they're key to Hera, they're really out of the loop, that they were part of the journey but not part of the finale, just as they foresaw in their visions.


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## Krug (Mar 22, 2009)

DonTadow said:


> I thought it was ok. Hated the angle thing and i don't buy 50k people agreeing to ditch all known technology and live in the wilderness.




I guess they hadn't developed the Internet yet.

As others have pointed out, I don't see how a society will just abandon medicine, chemistry, books and so on. For a SF show, it was just too anti-science.

While I think the acting in the series has been great, most of the characters never really felt that three-dimensional to me, and frankly they killed off two of the best characters in the mutiny double-bill. Their development also seemed to be sporadic; lurching and lunging around, like Baltar's desire to play soldier.

I can't say I'm a huge fan of the series but glad it ended decently. Not great, but satisfactorily.


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## Joker (Mar 22, 2009)

mrtauntaun said:


> I thought the first half of the finale was excellent.  Tense, exciting and a visual feast.  Great FX.  I was really hoping for a 'By your Command', but whatcha gonna do.
> 
> The second half, meh.  So many problems.  Boomer paying back Adama was contrived.  The opera house vision was rather lame, chasing her around the ship?  That's it?  I waited YEARS to see that?  Why did Cavil shoot himself?  I would have thought he would go down fighting, at least.
> 
> ...




My sentiments exactly.  People often say how they would have wanted to see something done differently and I'm gonna say the same.  They should have ended it after the shot with Adama.

The convoluted explanation and the ham-fisted social commentary after that shot ticked me off to no end.

I was so totally engrossed while watching this episode, I thought to myself:  "Wow, this is great television."  Up until the last five minutes it absolutely riveting.

Still one of the best episodes of BSG and I am saddened that so many great characters like Boomer and Felix didn't make it.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Mar 22, 2009)

El Mahdi said:


> *snip*



A "nitpick", the timeframe regarding planet discoveries:
Kobol leads to New Caprica leads to Algae planet (with nova-going star) leads to Earth/13th tribe leads to Earth/second take. 

[sblock=trying to get timeline and planet lineup correctly]
Near Kobol, Adama starts a military coup after Roslin follows her vision and sends Starbuck in a Cylon Raider to retrieve the Arrow of Apollo (god, not Lee  ). Adama is shot by Boomer (Cylon sleeper). Tigh takes over command, screws up big time, Roslin escapes custody and convinces part of the fleet to jump to Kobol. 
Starbuck meets up Helo and Boomer 2 (later called Athena) on Caprica, shortly after he learns she is a Cylon and pregnant. They also learn that some resistance fighters survived, lead by Anders, former sports star. They find some attempts of the Cylons to create cylon "babies" (we learn they can't naturally have children so far) and stop it, and Helo, Athena and Starbuck take a Heavy Raider to the fleet/Kobol, Starbuck promises to Anders she will come back.
Once Adama gets back on his feets, he sorts through the mess and reunites the fleet, and shortly thereafter, they enter the Tomb of Athena (goddess, not Boomer  ), where they see a kind of map (amazing "tech" so to speak - think holodeck, matrix - or divine revelation) that can help them find the way to Earth, the place where the 13th colony moved to.
Later, Galactica meets Pegasus, and Admiral Cain (Michelle Forbes) and Adama get into some trouble after one of her man decided that raping Boomer is cool to get more information, her boyfriend Helo and her kinda-ex-friend kill him, and she wants to punish them (by death.) They finally come to their senses for a moment when Starbuck shows them Pics of the resurrection ship she scouted out, a ship the Cylons use to resurrect their human models and Raiders. They unite to destroy it and hope to end the chase, while at the same time Adama and Cain plotting to have each other killed. After the battle is won, they decide not to kill each other, but the imprisoned Model 6 Cylon (that was repeatedly raped and abused by the crew) gets set loose by Baltar and kills Cain. Over the course of the events, eventually it is Apollo that takes command of Pegasus. (Yes, she is not immediately destroyed after the episode!)
Finally Starbuck convinces Adama and Roslin to mount a rescue operation for the Resistance cell on Caprica. During that mission (where they use the better FTL navigation from the Cylons), one Raptor gets off course (and another jumps into a mountain) and finds a habitable planet in a nebula. 
They rescue Anders, and reunited on the ship they figure out that they suddenly have two priests withthe same face, revealing a new Cylon - Cavill.
It is time to vote who gets to be the next president, and eventually Baltar becomes the second candidate, supported by Zarek. The election is won (and a manipulation attempt by the presidents aide averted) by Baltar when he makes the deciding topic colonization of the newly found planet - New Caprica. They believe it to be safe, since it is protected by a nebula. That would have all been working out nicely (well, not catastrophic, despite Baltars failings) if it wasn't for a nuke set of by the Pegasus-Six Cylon on Cloud 9. The radiation burst from that explosion is caught up by Cylons a year or so after the explosion (penetrating the nebula), leading to a Cylon occupation, Pegasus and Galactica jumping away. They later manage to get their Colonists out, thanks to the resistance on the ground and some clever tactics - but also sacrifcing (against original plan) the Pegasus. (So now it's finally gone. Took them at least half a season  )
President Baltar remains with the Cylons, later giving us (as viewer) some insights into Cylon abilities and structures. 
Next stop is the Algae planet - food supplies prove contaminated and they need some plants to be able to eat again. They must make some crazy jumps through a highly irradiated nebula (birth place of stars). On that planet, Tyrol finds "The Temple of the Five", another goalpost towards Eath, that reveals to everyone that there are 5 cylon models that are "special" and even unidentified by the other Cylon models. Only one Cylon learns the truth, and is "boxed" (deactivated and put to permanent sleep) for it by Cavil and the rest. 
At this point, Baltar gets back to the fleet and is eventually found innocent on the New Caprica occupation. They also bring back the daughter of Helo and Boomer, the first hybrid.
At some further mysterious point, they find a gas planet that Starbuck is strangely attracted to, and in an attempt to follow a seemingly appearing Cylon Heavy Raider, her Viper and she are lost. 
The fleet finally jumps to an important Nebula (one they have basically been searching for since Kobol), and Tigh, the President Aid (by the way: that's not Billy, he dies after Kobol and before the election), Tyrol and Anders learn that they are actually Cylons (yes, that raises all kinds of questions), but conceal it for the moment.
At that nebula, Starbuck mysteriously reappears, not aware that she was gone for months and supposedly death. Her Viper and she are in perfect shape.

The Cylons split up on the issue of whether to go on hunting humans or stopping the war, leading to a civil war between them. One of the "Boomer" models (the original one from the mini that shot Adama) sides against the others, and stays with Cavils anti-human side.
Starbuck feeling she knows the route to earth, but people doubting her, goes on a small mission to follow her "feelings" and inspirations, but finds nothing (but after all the frustration, a small mutinity leads to Gaeta losing a leg), except a surviving Cylon basestar on the "pro-human" side.
The next big goal is the destruction of the Resourrection Hub - because the first ship they destroyed was just one of many, but the destruction of the hub kills all cylon resurrection. But before that, they want to resurrect the boxed cylon to learn more about the Final Five. Everthing succeeds, and they find out the 4 Final Five on Galatica. The 5th remains unknown. 
The next stop is Earth. They learn that it was destroyed a long time ago, and the Final Four figure out the 5th - Tighs wife, who he killed on New Caprica after she betrayed the Resistance. 

The frustration of finding a uninhabitable and dead Earth leads to suicides and conflicts in the fleet. The human/cylon alliance is questioned, and this leads to a mutiny lead by Gaeta and Zarek, that eventually repelled. 
During this, they also find out that Galactica is seriously damaged due to the stress of the fights and repeated FTL jumps, and Cylon tech is used to fix  her up, but the results aren't pretty. 
Anders is seriously injured during the mutinity, but he reveals some important information: The Final Five are Cylons from Earth (also explaining why the "humans" on Earth show all Cylon DNA). Earth was destroyed in a human/centurion conflict, and these final five figured out the key to the resurrection technology (but it apparantly already existed before, but was lost) that wanted to warn the 12 Colonies about the Centurions, arriving there at the end of he first Cylon War, and convincing the Cylons to stop there own evolution attempts and instead rely on resurrection. Among the Cylon fleet, we learn that Ellen Tigh - the last missing of the Final Five - was resurrected and she tells other parts of the story. After the destruction of the hub, Cavill (who has manipulated most Cylons as the first of them, and that had the "Final Five" banished into their human bodies and human lives, so that they were unaware of the truth until recently) wants to recover the tech, and hopes that torture or dissection of Ellen might help. Boomer (the only one of her models still on the anti-human side) helps her escape - which later turns out just to be a pretext to get Hera back, because she holds the key to cylon reproduction. 

It turns out the Galactica can't be saved. Her case is just hopeless. So they decide to abandon ship, but ... Hera is still gone. So they assemble a group of volunteers that go find the Cylon Homeworld (a space ship in orbit of a Black Hole, in the accretion disc where all the matter that gets slowly sucked in resides), attack it, invade it, get Hera out, and get out.
They actually manage to do all that, not without losses but with destroying that damn Cylon Homeworld. On their emergency jump, they don't have the right coordinates yet, and Starbuck punches in those that have revealed to her by a visions and notes written down by Hera. The jump lands them to another habitable planet. They call in the fleet, and decide to settle down there. This planet is the Earth as _we_ know it, a few hundreds of thousands or million years ago. It has all the life the Colonials know, and, even more amazing, humans on it, genetically compatible with Humans and Cylons. They decide to call this planet Earth, and mingle with the natives (that haven't yet developed language), hoping to end the cycle of human vs cylon destruction. 
[/sblock]

EDIT: 
Aside from all this general "history" stuff, here are some highlights I'd like to mention that made Galactica worth watching
Keeping stuff mysterious, but still giving a sense of accomplishment and telling us new stuff.

Introducing secondary or tertiary characters and making them familiar to us - and then sometimes, unexpectedly, brutally, killing them off. or otherwise using them in interesting positions. While the main cast was still pretty much safe (even if going through hardships, losing eyes, getting shot in the guts, dying and resurrecting), this always kept a certain... atmosphere. Startrek has Redshirts, Galactica has Oliveshirts, and oliveshirts are way cooler, deeper, complex and likeable than any one else. There was the crewman that helped Boomer and Tyrol during the witch hunt on cylons, and ended in prison for it. He died on Kobol, Tyrol giving him a lethal injection of morphine after he was critically shot and beyond hope. The priestess Elosha, that guided Roslin and interpreted her visions. She died on Kobol, on a cylon mine. Kat, the Starbuck friend/rival hotshot pilot, that got hooked up on stims, later found out to be lying on her identity, and dying when jumping through the Algae planet. The trusty female Marine that accompanied us for so long, and got killed when Leobons heavily injured Heavy Raider exploded during Starbucks mission to find Earth. Specialist Laird, the tech/chief that took over Tyrols post, whose family was murdered by Cain to get him aboard her ship as a tech, that was killed by Zarek.
But there were also other, "smaller" stories. The specialist that ended her career as tech and became a Raptor pilot. Racetrack, the hot Raptor pilot that sided with the mutineers. You cared enough that you almost wanted to screem "No, Racetrack, why are you on the wrong side?!" Her black co-pilot, that died during the assault on the Cylon homeworld... Dr.Cottle, just with his quirky attitude of smoking cigarrettes in the sickbay, grumpy, with a heart of gold.

Awesome space battles, of course. Best SFX and most compelling "physics" I've seen in all Sci-Fi so far.
Galactica jumping away just before dozens of cylon missiles and nukes hit her. Vipers turning and continuing their path due to interatia, shooting Raiders down. Raiders that "bleed" when injured. Spaceships showing visible sign of damage for a long time. Galactica getting scars from the various battles.

Fascinating characters, conflicted, difficult, with unique personalities, going through difficult times and sometimes managing, sometimes failing. 

--------

I liked the ending. I am not sure if I could have come up with a better, though there are obviously many ways to end it.

There was decent space combat action porn, and a bittersweet ending.
I agree that it is a little contrived to think of the humans leaving behind every tech, but ... I don't really care. If I wanted, I could fanwank around it, but I think it is the only solution that makes sense. And let's face it, if they really want to mingle with the human population, the little tech they have left is a drop in the ocean. 

Roslins death was sad. Incredibly... And it's made even more sadder by the idea of Adama surviving her, and talking to her grave all the time. I "like" that, in a romantic sense...
But before her death, before the big battle - the scene with Cottle was also awesome. Finally he got the thanks he deserved, and he showed real emotion. Heart-Breaking, all in all.

Starbuck being an angel makes sense to me. I like that, too. That was, too, bittersweet - she just disappearing.

I am more an atheist, but I still find the idea of a superpowerful/supernatural being in the "Galacticaverse" guiding the events to be interesting and a good way to end the story, and tie up loose ends. Head Baltar and Head Six as Angels works for me. 

I also liked the idea of the Centurions somewhere out there. Maybe we'll meet again?


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## Kobold Avenger (Mar 22, 2009)

I feel that Adama was certainly right, at the beginning of the series when he said that all of those who died in the holocaust were the lucky ones.  Because I think it would be hard for many of those who survived the entire series, to live as cavemen coming from where they came from.

But in the end, a bunch of characters may have broken their own cycle, but many didn't.  Baltar didn't as he ended up as a farmer again.  Tyrol probably had the worst fate out of all of them.


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## Mark (Mar 23, 2009)

After whatever medicine they had ran out, most probably would have succumb to minor injuries and infections.  There must be all sorts of things their immune systems were never evolved to encounter, as well.  Still, they planted a few seeds before they passed, IYKWIMAITYD.


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## El Mahdi (Mar 23, 2009)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> ... I also liked the idea of the Centurions somewhere out there. Maybe we'll meet again?




Maybe they become the Borg!?


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## Kobold Avenger (Mar 23, 2009)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I also liked the idea of the Centurions somewhere out there. Maybe we'll meet again?



Maybe they`ll make humanoid bodies for themselves with many experiments all across the galaxy, and start another cycle yet again, once they forget that they were cylon centurions at some point.


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## mmu1 (Mar 23, 2009)

mrtauntaun said:


> You know, that one simple sentence would have done a lot to help me buy that part.




That would have been _better_ than the mass next-best-thing-to-suicide we got instead, but it'd still be rather silly.

Obviously, high-tech energy sources will run down, electronics will fail, etc., so if you really want to settle down, rather than, say, go back to the colonies and see what can be salvaged (as we saw, Caprica wasn't in bad shape all things considered):

1. You take a couple of the ships with the best combination of lifespan left / ease of maintenance, along with a handful of Raptors and Vipers, and prep them for long-term storage along with a supply of spare parts, to preserve your spaceflight and jump capacity.

2. Preserve your computing capacity - again, save the best computers along with the spare parts you'll need to run them for as long as you can. It's one of the few things you won't be able to replicate for a long, long time.

3. Gear down - start using your still-running technology to produce the tools you'll need to get started with and maintain a basic industrial-level society. Drills, files, saws, lathes, mechanical micrometer calipers, as much copper wire as you can make, nails, screws, etc. Crank them out while you can, so you'll have enough for the decades of playing catch-up that will follow.


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## DiasExMachina (Mar 23, 2009)

So turns out it was Jesus?

Seriously.  That's how we're ending it?

I have watched every single episode of BSG and I have always stated it was overated.  I get very defensive when people call it the best sci-fi on TV ever.  Do they have to history.  Other shows have won more awards and lasted longer.  I always thought BSG's characters created all new cliches and their tendency to always act selfishly became predictable and weak.  

I loved the first hour of the episode and although I got emotional throughout, the last half left a bitter taste in my mouth.  With amazing direction, great acting, awesome special effects and unmated music, the ultimate failure of the ending and the series lies with a preachy and patronizing creator.  So hammer a massive deus ex machina over our heads and go into a sermon about how we should abandon technology and embrace a monotheistic god is a slap in the face to any progressive human being as well as anyone who worships a polytheistic faith.  

Beyond creating massive logical holes, the ending of BSG felt like Ron Moore abandoned any measure of paying the show off and turned to his faith to guide him, like the entire series was a lead up to a religious awakening, and although this may be acceptable to a country that's 75% religious and mostly Christian, it doesn't sway with me.  Despite shedding a tear and many of the feats of these characters, the final fanfare made me more confused and although brilliantly directed, the message of its final scene echoed of preacher hoping his flock would see the wisdom of embracing god as way to temper your soul in the face of unstoppable progress.  Thanks Ron for your four year sermon, but I have a little more faith in mankind in spite of the gods he chooses to place above him.


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## Arnwyn (Mar 23, 2009)

The finale was okay, I suppose - better than I thought it would be, so that's something, at least.

The first part with the _huge_ battle, the human + allied Centurion commandos, etc, was absolutely incredible. Some of the best TV I've seen. Oh, and Tory getting it in the end as _really_ satisfying. She was an annoying twit.

The rest? Meh. It was okay, but had far too many holes for me to be all that impressed. Not surprising, though, as those holes were put into place way back in the scattershot Season 3 and first half of Season 4. Too much randomness and making-stuff-up-as-we-go-along really hurt the show, and hurt the show in the end.

I don't know if the writers/creators are religious, but the whole 'angel' thing really stunk - IMHO - and pretty much scars the show permanently for me. The whole mess with Kara was especially bad, but (again), not surprising. They were creating a mess some time ago. And really - what was up with wasting our time with the whole 'harbinger of death' nonsense? Why even bother? Same with goofiness like the opera house, but another poster here put a spin on it that makes it a little better. Reaching, but better.

That space battle pretty much proved to me that BSG _should_ have been 'about the space battles' - it would have been a far superior show, AFAIC. The mini-series, S1, and (much of) S2 were on the right track. S3 onwards was a downward spiral of weirdness and inconsistency.

While I see some people wishing it weren't over, I, for one, am glad it's (mostly!) done. It was an interesting experiment, but one that ended - for me - in failure. Oh well - can't win 'em all.

Angels... good grief.


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## El Mahdi (Mar 23, 2009)

Arnwyn said:


> ...what was up with wasting our time with the whole 'harbinger of death' nonsense? ...




Did the Hybrid actually say _"Harbinger of Death"_?  I'm not sure I remember exactly so you may be right.  I think I do recall the word _Harbinger_ thrown around a couple of times though.

However, when Sam was going in and out of consciousness and talking nonsense like the Hybrids, I believe he called her _"an Angel of Death"_.  Techinically that was correct, she was an angel and she was dead.  Maybe they played a little retconning into it to make the finale work?

I'm not _disapointed_ in the Angel thing, but I was kind of hoping that Starbuck was a Cylon hybrid (the Daniel as father theory).  I was kind of hoping that the Head Baltar and Head Six that the real Baltar and Six kept seeing were just Cylon projections, meaning that Baltar was a Cylon Hybrid also.  But, I know where you're coming from.  My wife was really disapointed with most of season 4 also (first and second half).  Although, she really liked the finale.

The fact that it ended up being something I didn't anticipate is something I liked.  In the end they were still able to surprise me.  And whether people saw it as disapointing or a letdown, it was definitely thought provoking.  I don't think I've still completely digested it all.  And, from a RPG standpoint, this show has given me years worth of game ideas.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 23, 2009)

It's clear to me that the reason several recent episodes have been rather action light was so they could save their CG budget for the finale.


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## Mark (Mar 24, 2009)

DiasExMachina said:


> So turns out it was Jesus?
> 
> Seriously.  That's how we're ending it?






So, changing your screenname in protest?


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## S'mon (Mar 26, 2009)

Arnwyn said:


> The rest? Meh. It was okay, but had far too many holes for me to be all that impressed. Not surprising, though, as those holes were put into place way back in the scattershot Season 3 and first half of Season 4. Too much randomness and making-stuff-up-as-we-go-along really hurt the show, and hurt the show in the end.




That's my feeling.  The show had been brilliant S1-S2, then jumped the shark with S3-S4.  Randomly choosing 4 characters to be cylons for a cheap bang is not the way to do it, Ron.

Kara being a ghost ("angel"?  Ghost is much more accurate) did not bother me.

However, my overall feeling was that the "God" entity came over a lot like the Vorlons of Babylon-5, basically a nasty manipulative critter.  Perhaps worse than them, since it seems to have assisted the cylons in genociding the humans.  

Likewise, I found myself rooting for Zarek and Gaeta's rebels against the cylon/human alliance; although Zarek stupidly murdering the Council was a Black Hat moment which made no sense at all except to mark him as the Bad Guy.  Why was the cylon/human group the good guys?  Because they had all the main characters!  

Caprica-6 - she murdered babies for fun.  She was the cylon most responsible for wiping out the colonies.  I'm supposed to root for her?

Morally, the show is a total mess.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 26, 2009)

People change. She was fighting a war against an enemy, something she was okay with, the same way that most soldiers are okay with it.

But as time passed she realized also that she was killing people who loved and were loved by others, people whose lives mattered, who were something deeper and more important than just 'the enemy.' She wasn't okay with that.

I think morally the show is a mess, which is wonderful, because people do horrific things when they think they have morality figured out in neat black and white lines.



Tom Zarek was still stupidly written for that councilicide, though.


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## MarkB (Mar 26, 2009)

"All this has happened before, and will happen again."

Too right.

The ending was straight out of _The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_. Once the era was established, I was basically expeciting Louis Armstrong to kick in with What a Wonderful World at any point in the last half hour.

Heck, the fleet even ended up being commanded by a guy who spends all his time in a bath on the bridge.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 26, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> People change. She was fighting a war against an enemy, something she was okay with, the same way that most soldiers are okay with it.
> 
> But as time passed she realized also that she was killing people who loved and were loved by others, people whose lives mattered, who were something deeper and more important than just 'the enemy.' She wasn't okay with that.
> 
> I think morally the show is a mess, which is wonderful, because people do horrific things when they think they have morality figured out in neat black and white lines.




Yes, precisely the beauty of the show.


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## S'mon (Mar 26, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> People change. She was fighting a war against an enemy, something she was okay with, the same way that most soldiers are okay with it.
> 
> But as time passed she realized also that she was killing people who loved and were loved by others, people whose lives mattered, who were something deeper and more important than just 'the enemy.' She wasn't okay with that.




I didn't notice her ever feeling guilty about it.  And they very obviously retconned in 'nice 6' in the flashbacks, which bore no resemblance to her depiction at the start of the show.

I dunno, I thought most of the characters were pretty horrible - the cylons of course, but Adama too.


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## Joker (Mar 27, 2009)

Any guesses on what "He" prefers to be called?

My guess is Mr. Dylan.


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## Grymar (Mar 27, 2009)

Re: 6 and the baby...

In interviews, Tricia H has mentioned that she gets a lot of flack for that and she doesn't get it. In her mind, 6 was being merciful, killing the baby quickly rather than letting it die in the impending nuke attack.

Right or wrong, I love that sort of moral ambiguity.


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## Jack7 (Mar 27, 2009)

> Any guesses on what "He" prefers to be called?




_Madame Secretary?_
Anything but late to dinner?

I'm really gonna miss that show. One of the few shows I'll ever miss. Ever thought about missing.

Not quite as much as if *Lost* ended, but pretty much the same.

Godspeed _Galactica_.
You were worth the ride and the cost of admission.

See ya on the other side.


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## Fast Learner (Mar 27, 2009)

Joker said:


> Any guesses on what "He" prefers to be called?
> 
> My guess is Mr. Dylan.




Bob, Mr. Dylan if you're nasty.


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## MarkB (Mar 27, 2009)

Joker said:


> Any guesses on what "He" prefers to be called?




Starbuck.

My personal theory is that Kara wasn't a ghost or an angel - she was a personification of "God". Their own, personal Jesus, basically.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Mar 27, 2009)

Jack7 said:


> *I'm really gonna miss that show*. One of the few shows I'll ever miss. Ever thought about missing.
> 
> Not quite as much as if *Lost* ended, but pretty much the same.
> 
> ...




Having rewatched the finale... Oh yes, I gonna miss BSG. I knew that before the finale, but it doesn't change a thing.

And I still love the ending. The start is full of brilliant and daring action, and the end is full of goodbyes, closures and ... sadness. 

If I find the time and forethought, I think I am gonna write my personal fanboyish good bye.


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## Wayside (Mar 27, 2009)

Joker said:


> Any guesses on what "He" prefers to be called?
> 
> My guess is Mr. Dylan.




Said the Joker to ... _hey_.


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## Jack7 (Mar 28, 2009)

> Their own, personal Jesus, basically.




Personally, I don't see it.

I mean there is the whole resurrection aspect, and the "with you to the end of the age," followed by the disappearance, or sort of vague ascension. At the end with Lee.

But from her erratic and often self-involved behavior, I find it hard to measure the similarities properly.

I just never saw Jesus as embodied as a character or personality. Maybe some of his traits or aspects divided among different characters.

_Galactica_ struck me as more of a Jesus figure than any person in the show. I'm not dismissing your analysis as silly or unimportant, mind you, just saying I have a hard time seeing it as a direct corollation.

It's like saying John Locke in _Lost_ is Jesus cause he was resurrected. He has semi-divine aspects, but it's not a straight overlay or representation to me. The Island to me is more like Jesus than the people are.

I'll tell you who did strike me though as a more or less intact embodiment:
Baltar as the Apostle Paul. And Caprica struck me a lot like Mary Magdalene.
Those too are far from perfect "types" though.

But, as with most shows, or books, or literature, or film, that represent religious and mythological figures I think such shows mix-up and re-represent such figures in different and amalgamated ways in order to stress certain plot ideas and themes.

I think this is because they want to extrapolate or expound upon those characters and who they represent than just do a direct retelling.

So they "re-encode" the symbols rather than just decipher them.


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## Wolf72 (Mar 28, 2009)

I think the ending would have been better if Kara appeared with Caprica and Baltar ... giving us some more clues of what she was.

I think she was some sort of angel, but at the same time taking human form made her human ... just with some sort of destiny.


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