# What 9th-level spells should any Wizard prepare?



## dcollins (Nov 11, 2004)

And here's the big one. 

This is a poll in a series I'm trying to use to generate a "baseline" core Wizard's spell list. You can pick as many selections as you like.

Say you have a Wizard of 20th level -- adventuring, PC or NPC, non-specialized, non-multiclassed, core rules only. He or she can likely prepare 4 spells of 9th-level. What spells should he or she prepare in those slots?

You can pick as many selections as you'd like -- I would suggest around 4.


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## Felix (Nov 11, 2004)

1. Open Slot
2. Open Slot
3. _Foresight_
4. _Time Stop_


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## Dark Dragon (Nov 11, 2004)

Well, just out of experience, I voted for:

Shapechange. There are dozens of threads about this spell. It is powerful. It can easily destroy a whole story. It can make other classes look weak. It can be fun, though.

Power Word Kill. If you don't want to wait more rounds during the other party members try to finish off a tough but badly wounded guy, this spell is the right choice. For strange reasons, this spell is the only one that combines the enchantment school with a death spell. So high-level arcane casters are safe when they have cast their daily Mind Blank (/rant)

Meteor Swarm. Heavy artillery par excellence. Beware if MS is energy substituted!

Time Stop. Deadly with the Delayed Blast Fireball combo. Nice to summon some monsters. Or recast some lost protections.


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## Numion (Nov 11, 2004)

Felix said:
			
		

> 1. Open Slot
> 2. Open Slot
> 3. _Foresight_
> 4. _Time Stop_




Somebody else chose Foresight too 

Death in high level D&D has proven IMX to be a matter of round or two - both Foresight and Timestop give you more of those. They are my choices, everything else is situational.


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## shilsen (Nov 11, 2004)

Gate, Shapechange, Time Stop and Wish.


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## Urbanmech (Nov 11, 2004)

Shapechange, so many uses...the ultimate swiss army knife of spells.  
Time Stop, get up those buffs in a suprise situation, or drop 2-3 delayed blast fireballs on an area.
Meteor Swarm soften up large groups of bad guys, just make sure you have energy substitution so you can get those fire immune bad guys.
Gate the second great utility spell.  A little less functional than shapechange due to the exp cost, but sometimes adding a solar to the fight can really turn the tide of battle.


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## blargney the second (Nov 11, 2004)

I misread _Refuge_, and thought it said _Refudge_.  My first thought was, "Huh, I didn't realise that was part of the core rules."

-blarg


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## Lawmage (Nov 11, 2004)

Uhmm, I seldom play this high up as I prefer the game experience in the 5th - 15th level range, still....

Wish....the ultimate useful spell, of course the XP cost can be prohibitive.

Shapechange...perhaps one of the most story breaking spells there is, when used by a clever caster.

Gate...Allies, allies, allies

Summon Monster...again, it is never wise to discount the value of a few allies...

and, lastly, going beyond the recommended four,

Timestop...at the higher levels, the importance of reaction time cannot be overstated.  Timestop allows one to do the impossible, get out from behind a bad reaction time.  Indeed, it allows one to get ahead of an opponent's good reaction time...


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## Iku Rex (Nov 11, 2004)

Shapechange (!), time stop, gate. I can't believe there are people out there who didn't vote for shapechange.   

(I also voted for imprisonment - I shouldn't have, since it has a save in 3.5.)


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## Testament (Nov 12, 2004)

Time Stop:  FREEZE!  Right, up goes a buff or two, delayed blast fireballs, press play and KA-MOTHER*******-BOOM!

Wish:  When a crisis hits, here's a solution.  Miracle is even more disgusting for the cleric though.

Shapechange:  A gamebreaker, that's all I can say.  Sooooo cool though.

I also have a lot of love for Power Word: Kill, Foresight, and Weird though.


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## Terwox (Nov 12, 2004)

shapechange, foresight, and disjunction.
shapechange because... it's shapechange.  be a 200'x200'x200' block of adamantium and fall from 400 feet up.  do it.   that's lame but it has very good effects.
foresight is good because you can teleport away if something horrible is about to happen.
disjunction is good because, well, it just strips away buffs and cancel magic items, and make fights that much easier.  good stuff.  kinda unwieldy with the burst, though.


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## Hypersmurf (Nov 12, 2004)

Terwox said:
			
		

> it's shapechange.  be a 200'x200'x200' block of adamantium and fall from 400 feet up.  do it.




In 3.5, you can't.

Shapechange lets you become creatures.  A block of adamantine (adamant_ine_.  adamant_ine_.) is not a creature.

-Hyp.


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## Thanee (Nov 12, 2004)

Oops, forgot to check Time Stop! 

1) _Shapechange_
.
.
.
.
.
2) _Gate_
3) _Mordenkainen's Disjunction_
3.5) _Time Stop_
4) _Dominate Monster_

I was tempted to vote for _Foresight_, too, but it depends so much on how it is interpreted. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Someone (Nov 12, 2004)

Shapechange, Shapechange, Gate, Time stop. Add Disjunction if you have another slot.


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## Inconsequenti-AL (Nov 12, 2004)

Shapechange - too useful!
Wish - good in many situations... as a last ditch.
Disjunction - again a party saver.
Time stop - like everyone else says.


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## hong (Nov 12, 2004)

Heightened true strike. They'll never see it coming!


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## EvilGM (Nov 12, 2004)

Wish - flexibility and power... the xp cost bites, but what can ya do?
Time Stop - precious time
Disjunction - most powerful destroy/dispel magic
Shapechange - nutty powerful

Meteor Swarm and Wail of the Banshee are nice, but I prefer flexibility over attack spells at this level.


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## Iku Rex (Nov 12, 2004)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> In 3.5, you can't.
> 
> Shapechange lets you become creatures.



That's why you make it an _animated_ block of adamantine. Though you have to settle for a Gargantuan object. (125 tons.)


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## Humanophile (Nov 12, 2004)

Gate, Timestop, Shapechange, and spare copies of the above.

Coincidentally, I'm surprised so many people are saying "Wish".  Not to sound munchkinny, but isn't Gating in a Solar very much the same thing for 20% the XP?


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## Humanophile (Nov 12, 2004)

Iku Rex said:
			
		

> That's why you make it an _animated_ block of adamantine. Though you have to settle for a Gargantuan object. (125 tons.)




Really ain't as good a tactic as you seem to think.

To everyone under you, you do 20d6.  Granted no save, but this doesn't seem too extreme for a 9th level spell.  Especially when you consider the drawbacks.

First, you have to be in optimal conditions.  Low ceilings or flying foes?  Best of luck.  (And if you're not flying while in open areas, what the #^$& are you doing in a high level encounter?)

Plus, when you do land, you take 20d6 - 20 damage.  You might be able to get up to three of those d6's ignored, but that's still ~40 points of ouch under optimal conditions.

Not that it can't be useful when you want to inflict wide-scale damage, but even scope of carnage can be outdone by a lower level wizard with Widen.  So it's an option while the spell is running, but nothing to get all worked up over.


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## Iku Rex (Nov 12, 2004)

Humanophile said:
			
		

> Really ain't as good a tactic as you seem to think.
> 
> To everyone under you, you do 20d6.  Granted no save, but this doesn't seem too extreme for a 9th level spell.  Especially when you consider the drawbacks.
> 
> First, you have to be in optimal conditions.  Low ceilings or flying foes?  Best of luck.  (And if you're not flying while in open areas, what the #^$& are you doing in a high level encounter?)



Check the falling rules again. You do 1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen *and* 1d6 damage for every 200 pounds of weight. 200 feet above ground: 20d6. 125 tons: 1250d6. You don't actually _need_ those extra 20d6 from falling distance.


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## Thanee (Nov 12, 2004)

Humanophile said:
			
		

> Coincidentally, I'm surprised so many people are saying "Wish".  Not to sound munchkinny, but isn't Gating in a Solar very much the same thing for 20% the XP?




Nope.

But while I think _Limited Wish_ is a spell, which can be used regularily, _Wish_ is far too expensive to hog up a valuable 9th level slot IMHO.

A scroll of _Wish_ would be handy, tho, in times of emergency.

Bye
Thanee


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## Patlin (Nov 12, 2004)

Terwox said:
			
		

> shapechange, foresight, and disjunction.
> shapechange because... it's shapechange.  be a 200'x200'x200' block of adamantium and fall from 400 feet up.  do it.   that's lame but it has very good effects.





Ought to do as much damage to the mage as to anything he lands on... if I was DM, this wouldn't be a good trick twice.  (Even if it was still a legal maneuver.)


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## Li Shenron (Nov 12, 2004)

I voted:

*Shapechange*
Really the most versatile spell around... and lasts quite long after all.

*Shades*
Also seem very versatile to have one prepared each day. Replicates conjurations up to 8th level and 80% real. It's like a minor wish for replicating effects (obviously it doesn't have that many options) but for free.

*Dominate Monster*
20 days duration and no HD limit (IIRC) means that regular use of this spell may provide quite a backup army. The problems could be in the time necessary to give orders to more than one creature, and that it is dispellable. Plus, every day you're not using it to get a new slave, I think it's within the rules to cast it again on one of your current and make it quasi-permanent.

I thought the poll was limited to 3, otherwise I would have chosen *Foresight* as the last one, although it depends a lot on the DM how it works


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## Plane Sailing (Nov 12, 2004)

I didn't include wish because although every wizard should have it in his spell books as soon as possible it is definitely NOT a spell worth preparing every day. The 5000xp hit is too great. Seems stupid that clerics can get pretty much the same effects for free with miracle at no cost though...

My list was shapechange, timestop & gate


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## Li Shenron (Nov 12, 2004)

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> I didn't include wish because although every wizard should have it in his spell books as soon as possible it is definitely NOT a spell worth preparing every day. The 5000xp hit is too great.
> 
> Seems stupid that clerics can get pretty much the same effects for free with miracle at no cost though...




Absolutely. Twice.


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## Dark Dragon (Nov 12, 2004)

Gate is nice, but burning 1500 XP for summoning a tough ally hurts. Seems to be more a NPC spell. Hm, the summoned creature may come back later and ask the guy who summoned it for a little favor   

Wish was never used IMC, although the party wizards have the spell in their books. Losing 5000 XP for a simple copy of another arcane spell? Nonsense. Copying divine spells like resurrection may be costly, smae for changing reality.


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## Thanee (Nov 12, 2004)

Well, Gate also allows to travel without the XP cost, and it's "only" 1000 XP IIRC.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## dcollins (Nov 13, 2004)

Thanks for the responses, everyone. Here's the current ordered results after 75 votes (those within 50% of top in bold):

*
61	Time Stop
47	Shapechange
30	Wish*
23	Gate
22	Mage's Disjunction
16	Meteor Swarm
11	Power Word Kill
10	Dominate Monster
9	Foresight
7	Wail of the Banshee
6	Imprisonment
5	Energy Drain
5	Prismatic Sphere
5	Summon Monster IX
3	Astral Projection
3	Hold Monster, Mass
3	Shades
3	Weird
2	Crushing Hand
2	Teleportation Circle
1	Etherealness
0	Freedom
0	Refuge
0	Soul Bind


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## Falling Icicle (Nov 13, 2004)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Gate, Shapechange, Time Stop and Wish.




Amen. Those are the 4 best Wizard spells, right there.


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## the Jester (Nov 13, 2004)

I only checked three- _gate, time stop_ and _prismatic sphere,_ but I shoulda also checked _foresight._  Spidey sense!


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