# No Man's Land (Recruitment Closed... Sort of)



## Darimaus (Apr 10, 2007)

Far across the oceans, in the middle of nowhere, lies a cursed island, known only as No Man's Land. Here, no God dares to tread, fearing the wrath that could be unleashed by careless meddling. Only one divine entity may call this place home. He is the Gatekeeper, the Watcher, tasked with minding the seals and keeping the sanctity of the Material plane safe from the dreaded force that lies dormant on the island. However, the seals have started to waver, and a handful of individuals, heralding themselves as the Disciples of Uaedo, have begun to show themselves, wreaking havoc and chaos across the populace. All the Gods, worried about what may come to pass, have began sending their greatest warriors to this island, mass fleets of ships packed to the brim with knights, blackguards, orcs, barbarians, all beings of all alingments coming together with a common purpose. To stop the Disciples of Uaedo. 

Rules:
Level 20
Allowed sources: Any WotC Hardcover source.
Allowed Races/Templates: Any
Rolls: All rolls are to be done via invisible castle. Please post link to your rolls.
Stats: 4d6, drop the lowest, reroll ones. Roll 7 times, drop the lowest. If the sum total of your stats does not exceed 80, please roll again. Post all your rolls, not just your last ones please.

No magic magic item creation before the start of the game, if you wish to do crafting you will have to do it during down time (you will start with half the XP you need to get to level 21). 

No customized items out of the item creation charts, however you can combine existing items and move item slots using the given rules from the DMG.


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## s@squ@tch (Apr 10, 2007)

Sounds neat.  What is the cut off date?  I'm out of town from Thursday until next monday, but will work on something rough in the meantime.  

Do you want a full character sheet or concept at this point?



My concept would be a pure monk.

[sblock=Jareel Arinthis]

Name Jareel Arinthis
Gender: Male 
Race: Human/Outsider
Class Monk 20
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Patron Deity St. Cuthbert


```
Str 24      (+7)      (+3 tome +2 level +6 Belt) 
Dex 26      (+8)      (+2 tome + 6 ring)
Con 18      (+4)      (+3 tome + 2 level)
Int 13      (+1) 
Wis 28      (+9)      (+3 tome + 1 level +6 headband)
Cha 12      (+1)
```

Hit Points 181 (20d8 +80)
Hp roll 

```
AC 48 (10 + 8 (bracers) + 9 (Wis) + 8 (Dex) + 5 (ring) + 4 (monk) + 4 (vest)), Touch 36, Flat 40
```
Init +8
BAB +15/+10/+5, Grap +22
Speed 90' (base 30, Light, +60' Monk Bonus Speed)
Fort +21, Ref +25, Will +26
DR: 10/magic
SR: 30
Experience:

Unarmed Strike (treated as adamantine for DR purposes):
Full attack:  +27/+27/+27/+22/+17 (greater flurry of blows)
Dmg: 2d10 + 11

Stunning Fist: 20/day
Quivering Palm: 1/week

Size 5'11" tall, 170 wt, 33 yrs old
Shaved Head, Piercing Dark Blue Eyes, Dark Olive skin, tattoo of St. Cuthbert's Cudgel on each forearm.

Speaks Common, Draconic

[sblock=Feats]
*Monk Bonus Feats:*​
*Flurry of Blows*

*Improved Unarmed Strike*

*Stunning Fist* - You must declare that you are using this feat before you make your attack roll (thus, a failed attack roll ruins the attempt). Stunning Fist forces a foe damaged by your unarmed attack to make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 29), in addition to dealing damage normally. A defender who fails this saving throw is stunned for 1 round (until just before your next action). A stunned creature drops everything held, can’t take actions, takes a -2 penalty to AC, and loses his Dexterity bonus to AC. You may attempt a stunning attack once per day for every four levels you have attained (but see Special), and no more than once per round. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be stunned. 

*Evasion*

*Deflect Arrows* - You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. You must be aware of the attack and not flat-footed. 

Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected. 

*Still Mind *  - gains a +2 bonus on saving throws against spells and effects from the school of enchantment. 

*Ki Strike *  (Magic, Lawful, Adamantine)

*Slow Fall *  (any distance)

*Purity of Body* - gains immunity to all diseases except for supernatural and magical diseases. 

*Improved Trip* - You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent. 

If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt. 

*Wholeness of Body* - can heal a number of hit points of damage equal to twice his current monk level each day (40), and he can spread this healing out among several uses.

*Improved Evasion *  - takes no damage on a successful Reflex saving throw against attacks, but henceforth he takes only half damage on a failed save.

*Diamond Body *  -  immunity to poisons of all kinds. 

*Greater Flurry of Blows*

*Abundant Step * - a monk can slip magically between spaces, as if using the spell dimension door, once per day. CL:10

*Diamond Soul * - gains spell resistance equal to her current monk level + 10 (30). 

*Quivering Palm* - can set up vibrations within the body of another creature that can thereafter be fatal if the monk so desires. She can use this quivering palm attack once a week, and she must announce her intent before making her attack roll. Constructs, oozes, plants, undead, incorporeal creatures, and creatures immune to critical hits cannot be affected. Otherwise, if the monk strikes successfully and the target takes damage from the blow, the quivering palm attack succeeds. Thereafter the monk can try to slay the victim at any later time, as long as the attempt is made within a number of days equal to her monk level. To make such an attempt, the monk merely wills the target to die (a free action), and unless the target makes a Fortitude saving throw (DC 29), it dies. If the saving throw is successful, the target is no longer in danger from that particular quivering palm attack, but it may still be affected by another one at a later time. 

*Timeless Body* - no longer takes penalties to her ability scores for aging and cannot be magically aged. Any such penalties that she has already taken, however, remain in place. Bonuses still accrue, and the monk still dies of old age when her time is up. 

*Tongue of the Sun and the Moon* - can speak with any living creature. 

*Empty Body* - gains the ability to assume an ethereal state for 1 round per monk level per day, as though using the spell etherealness. He may go ethereal on a number of different occasions during any single day, as long as the total number of rounds spent in an ethereal state does not exceed his monk level. 

*Perfect Self* - He is forevermore treated as an outsider rather than as a humanoid for the purpose of spells and magical effects. Additionally, the monk gains damage reduction 10/magic, which allows him to ignore the first 10 points of damage from any attack made by a nonmagical weapon or by any natural attack made by a creature that doesn’t have similar damage reduction. Unlike other outsiders, the monk can still be brought back from the dead as if he were a member of his previous creature type. 

_*Normal Feats: (8)*_​
*Dodge *  - During your action, you designate an opponent and receive a +1 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks from that opponent. You can select a new opponent on any action. 

A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. Also, dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most other types of bonuses. 


*Mobility* - You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunity caused when you move out of or within a threatened area. A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses. 

Dodge bonuses stack with each other, unlike most types of bonuses. 

*Spring Attack*  - When using the attack action with a melee weapon, you can move both before and after the attack, provided that your total distance moved is not greater than your speed. Moving in this way does not provoke an attack of opportunity from the defender you attack, though it might provoke attacks of opportunity from other creatures, if appropriate. You can’t use this feat if you are wearing heavy armor. 

You must move at least 5 feet both before and after you make your attack in order to utilize the benefits of Spring Attack. 

*Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike) *  - You gain a +1 bonus on all attack rolls you make using the selected weapon. 


*Improved Critical(Unarmed Strike) *  - You double the threat range for the selected weapon

*Power Attack *  On your action, before making attack rolls for a round, you may choose to subtract a number from all melee attack rolls and add the same number to all melee damage rolls. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next turn. 

*Cleave *   If you deal a creature enough damage to make it drop (typically by dropping it to below 0 hit points or killing it), you get an immediate, extra melee attack against another creature within reach. You cannot take a 5-foot step before making this extra attack. The extra attack is with the same weapon and at the same bonus as the attack that dropped the previous creature. You can use this ability once per round. 

*Combat Reflexes *  You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus (8)
[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]
138 total skill points (24 @ 1st then 6 per level)

```
+10      [B]Balance[/B]      (5 ranks +5 dex) 
+5      [B]Concentration [/B]      (1 rank +4 Con) 
+2      [B]Craft[/B]      (1 rank +1 Int) 
+20      [B]Diplomacy[/B]      (19 ranks +1 Cha) 
+1      Search      (+1 Int) 
+10      Balance      (5 ranks +5 dex)
+0      Bluff
+10      [B]Climb[/B]      (5 ranks +5 Str)
+10      [B]Escape Artist[/B]      (5 ranks +5 dex)
+0      Disguise
+6      Gather Information      (11 ranks + 1 Cha)
+0      Heal
+10      [B]Hide[/B]      (5 ranks +5 dex)
+1      Intimidate      (+1 Cha)
+10      [B]Jump[/B]      (5 ranks +5 Str)
+20      [B]Listen[/B]      (13 ranks + 7 Wis)
+15      [B]Move Silently[/B]      (10 ranks +5 Dex)
+5      Ride      (+5 dex)
+22      [B]Sense Motive[/B]      (15 ranks +7 Wis)
+22      [B]Spot[/B]      (15 ranks + 7 Wis)
+0      Survival      (+5 Con)
+10      [B]Swim[/B]      (5 ranks + 5 Str)
+23      [B]Tumble[/B]      (18 ranks +5 Dex)
```
[/sblock]

[sblock=Human Traits]
- Medium: As Medium creatures, humans have no special bonuses or penalties due to their size. 
- Human base land speed is 30 feet. 
- 1 extra feat at 1st level. 
- 4 extra skill points at 1st level and 1 extra skill point at each additional level. 
[/sblock]

[sblock=Equipment]



```
Tomes:
Manual of Gainful Exercise +3 (used)     82,500 gp
Tome of Understanding +3 (used)     82,500 gp
Tome of Bodily Health +3 (used)     82,500 gp
Manual of Quickness in Action +2 (used) 55,000 gp
```


```
Equipment:
Hands:
Gloves of Dexterity +6           36,000 gp

Fingers:
Ring of Protection +5             50,000 gp

Wrists:
Bracers of Armor +8              64,000 gp

Neck:
Amulet of Might Fists +4         96,000 gp

Head:
Headband of Wisdom +6        54,000 gp

Waist:
Belt of Giant Strength +6        36,000 gp

Backpack:
Bag of Holding (Type 4)             10,000 gp
Pearl of the Sirens                    15,300 gp
Potion-Cure Serious Wounds x3   2,250 gp
Potion-Fly                                  750 gp
Potion-Protection from Energy x2 1,500 gp
70 pp

Back:
Cloak of Resistance +5          25,000 gp

Feet:
Boots of Speed                    12,000 gp

Chest:
Vestment of Natural Armor +4 54,000 gp
```
[/sblock]
[/sblock]





[sblock=character rolls]
Die roll for No Man's Land 
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [4,4,3] = (11)
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [5,5,3] = (13)
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [6,6,6] = (18)
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [5,5,2] = (12)
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [5,4,4] = (13)
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [6,6,6] = (18)
4d6.takeHighest(3)-> [6,4,3] = (13)
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=967772

Unused rolls:
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=967771  <80 pts
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=967770  <80 pts

[/sblock]


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## Voda Vosa (Apr 10, 2007)

We are talking of a pbp game dont we? any way count me on for a pbp:

Stats Rolls
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968033


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## Jemal (Apr 11, 2007)

Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> We are talking of a pbp game dont we? any way count me on for a pbp:
> 
> Stats Rolls
> http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968033




He said to show all the rolls, and there's 3 rolls under "no man s land", all 4d6.takeHighest(3) 7 rolls, all within a minute of each other.. why'd you only post the most recent?

Also, two of them are over 80 points, might wanna count them again... http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?u=no+man+s+land


On another note, I'll be playing either a Duelist or an Abjurant Champion

Hmm. first Roll and i beat 80... http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968076 
17,17,16,12,12,11.
.. I'll start working on the character.


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## Unkabear (Apr 11, 2007)

I am thinking of playing a Pixie Rogue.  

[6,4,3] = (13)
[5,5,2] = (12) <drop> 
[6,6,3] = (15)
[6,5,5] = (16)
[6,4,3] = (13)
[6,5,3] = (14)
[6,5,5] = (16)

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968060

Grift is a rogue in employ of the Useeli Court, The council of Fey directed by their gods sent a delegation to No Mans Land to assist in stopping the actions and machinations of the Disciples of Uaedo.  Grift was chosen by the Useeli Court for his ability as a scout and for his skills in infiltrating harder to access locations that may hold information or items of interest to the Court.  Grift tends to be more cautious about his actions and speed to battle.  His cool head has saved the lives of others teamed with him in the past and though he is not delegated as the leader of this team, it would be assumed that he would manage to be a voice of reason to a leader forced to work with mortal enemies in the face of a greater evil.

Edit: this was my first roll.  I will be creating a lvl 16 rogue pixie.  And a question.  When you say no custom items are you banning custom weapons?  I want to make a +? force light crossbow.  Is that allowed? or do I have to hold to the weapons already statted?  Err if you would like No Man's Land in the name I can reroll if you would like.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 11, 2007)

Count me in

Warforged Berserker if allowed 

EDIT: GEEZZ LOUIZZ -- took me six tries but finally beat 80, (just barely though). 

Roll 6: 14, 13, 11, 13, 14, 16, Drop 10 <-- (Still sucks!)

Roll 5: 16, 12, 11, 11, 10, 12, Drop 8
Roll 4: 10, 10, 13, 11, 14, 11, Drop 8
Roll 3: 16, 9, 8, 17, 13, 5, Drop 5
Roll 2: 10, 6, 7, 16, 15, 18, Drop 6
Roll 1: 14, 10, 16, 14, 14, 11, Drop 3

-Blood


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## Shayuri (Apr 11, 2007)

Rolls!

First bunch: Does not exceed 80 (but still pretty good)
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968124

Second bunch: Does not exceed 80
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968132

Third: The suckage continues.
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968148

Fourth: ...isn't there a law against this?
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968151

Fifth!: Finally!
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968155

16, 17, 15, 14, 15, 14


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## Lord_Raven88 (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm interested. I'll post a concept soon.


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## Jemal (Apr 11, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Count me in
> 
> Warforged Berserker if allowed
> 
> EDIT: GEEZZ LOUIZZ -- took me six tries but finally beat 80, (just barely though).




Looking at those stats, I'ld personally take Roll 2 even though it's under 80.. It's got 3 high stats, and a couple really low stats.. Could make for good roleplaying.  Besides, What do berserkers need mental stats for, eh?


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## GlassEye (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm seeing lots o' onesies in those rolls.  Don't forget to reroll ones!  You can use: 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)

Anyway, my ROLLS

18, 16, 15, 15, 15, 14


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## Rathan (Apr 11, 2007)

damn.. I was at work when this went up.... still got room for another.. not sure what I want to make yet.. I'm thinking my favorite class... cleric.... maybe with an intresting racial twist.... goblin possibly?... you did say in the intro beings of every ilk were being sent to help heh.... BUT.. I'll have to look over what everyone else is making or thinking of making and filling in the holes possibly... I'm nice like that hehe

- Rathan

Only had to roll once... I guess I'm just lucky? heh

*Here's My Rolls*

17, 17, 11(dropped), 15, 13, 12, 15

P.S. - just a couple quick questions... if memory serves me... it's double the cost of a power on an item if the item is nonslotted... but was it half again as much for a second power added to an item that is slotted? I can't exactly remember.... also... switching magic item slots for items.... lets say I want wristbands of wisdom instead of a periapt.... does it cost more to switch them or can I just swap them?


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## James Heard (Apr 11, 2007)

*sigh* I'd love to play but I hate rolling dice for stats. Have a great game guys!


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## SolosAddie (Apr 11, 2007)

I would love to play.  I would really like to try out dragon shaman (at high level).  

Is there any objection to goliath?

Well here's roll http://invisiblecastle.com/rolldice....minroll(2).takeHighest(3)&n=&a=Roll+the+dice


The first set totals out to 83.

 12,12,15,14,13,13,16  (scratch one of the 12s.)  Kinda mediumish across the board.


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## Voda Vosa (Apr 11, 2007)

Yes your right, my english aint very good,  the ill use my first one then http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968026


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## Jemal (Apr 11, 2007)

GlassEye said:
			
		

> I'm seeing lots o' onesies in those rolls.  Don't forget to reroll ones!  You can use: 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)




*DOH!* You're right... Woopsie.. OK, well here's the Reroll one's version : 
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968610
17,17,16,15,13,11.
Old one's were
17,17,16,12,12,11.

Both times I dropped a 10.  
Darimaus, should I use the old ones?(Where I forgot to reroll 1's?) Or the new one's?
They're remarkably similar rolls, just the two 12's changed to 15 & 13.

I'm almost done the Duelist Concept, I think I'll be going with it, I don't feel like making a spellcaster right now, despite the fact that I've been wanting to try a Warmage/Argent Savant/Abjurant Champion for a while now.


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## Avalon® (Apr 11, 2007)

Does the no crafting rule include stuff like phylacteries for liches or canopic jars for dry liches?


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## Rathan (Apr 11, 2007)

Darimaus?..... how are we doing HPs? max first and then roll+con mod on invisablecastle?


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## Avalon® (Apr 11, 2007)

rolls:
11,15,15,12,10,8,13.Dropped 8-only 76

12,13,12,14,14,17,9.Dropped 9-82


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## Darimaus (Apr 11, 2007)

Rathan- Yes, max HP first level and then roll on invisible castle.

Avalon® - Since a phalactory is part of being a lich, theres no rule against it. Same for similar concepts. Please clear all such occurances with me first however.

Jemal - Just use the old ones.

SolosAddie - Goliath is fine.

Rathan - I'm at the taking submissions phase of the game right now, so anyone who posts interest will be considered. As for swapping item slots for items, you add 1.5 times the cost for placing an enhancement on an item it shouldn't go on, and for stacking magic on one item, it costs 1.5 times for every magical enhancement after the most expensive one.

Shayuri - Aren't you glad the stats need to exceed 80 

Bloodweaver1 - Warforged Beserker is fine.

Unkabear - You can customize weapons and armor because you don't need to use the item creation charts to do so, its a mechanic built into the game already. As for the label on your rolls, you can't play pbp without at least some trust, so I won't make you reroll.

s@squ@tch - So far, there isn't really a cutoff date yet, though I would like characters posted in here ASAP. As for the sphere, I'm afraid PCs can't start with things like artifacts (that leads down a road I don't want to go anywhere near, sorry).

One last thing, just for future knowledge, I'm usually on around 12:00 pm to 4:00 pm, and around 12:00 am to 4:00 am (Central Time). This will give you guys an idea of when things will generally be updated.


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## Rathan (Apr 11, 2007)

ok.. just to clarify.... when stacking magical stuff on items... it's base cost for most expensive power.. then x1.5 for every one I add to that first one... correct?

two more things.... as I don't have the Epic Level Handbook... what's the exact hp amount we're getting so I can record it on my character sheet please? And... are you allowing nonslotted items for double the cost?.... like a gem of luck to ac giving a +4 luck bouns to ac for 64,000 gold for instance

oops... forgot to add my hp roll.... here it is
*HPs Roll Here*


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## Rathan (Apr 11, 2007)

Alrighty.... I beleive I have everything laid down for you to inspect boss..... feel free to fire at me what I need to work on.... thanks

- Rathan


```
[B]Name:[/B]Meekor the Wise
[B]Class:[/B]Cleric17/Hierophant3
[B]Race:[/B]Goblin
[B]Size:[/B]Small
[B]Gender:[/B]Male
[B]Alignment:[/B] CN
[B]Deity:[/B]Boccob
[B]Domains:[/B] Magic, Knowladge


[B]Str:[/B]18	+4	(-2 Racial, +1 Lvl Bns,+6 Item)	[B]Level:[/B]20	[B]XP:[/B] 200000
[B]Dex:[/B]14	+2	(+2 Racial)			[B]BAB:[/B]+14	[B]HP:[/B] 152 (20d8+60)
[B]Con:[/B]17	+3				       [B]Grapple:[/B]+14	[B]Dmg Red:[/B] 
[B]Int:[/B]18	+4	(+3 Tome)			[B]Speed:[/B]30'	[B]Spell Res:[/B]0
[B]Wis:[/B]30	+10	(+3 Lvl Bns, +4 Tome, +6 Item)	[B]Init:[/B]+2		[B]Spell Save:[/B] 0
[B]Cha:[/B]18	+4	(-2 Racial, +1 Lvl Bns, +4 Item)[B]ACP:[/B]-4		[B]Spell Fail:[/B] -


		[B]Base	Armor	Shld	Dex	Size	Nat	Misc	Total[/B]
		10	+9	+7	+2	+1	+5	+5	39

[B]Armor:[/B]
+5 Small Chain Shirt of Heavy Fort.
+5 Small Heavy Steel Shield

[B]Touch:[/B]18		[B]Flatfooted:[/B]37

			[B]Base	Mod	Misc	Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]			13	+3	+5	+21
[B]Ref:[/B]			6	+2	+7	+15
[B]Will:[/B]			13	+10	+5	+28

[B]Weapon						Attack		Damage	Critical[/B]
+5 Small Adamantine Morningstar of Speed	+23/+23/+18/+13	1d6+9	20x2

[B]Languages:[/B]
Goblin
Common
Giant
Draconic
Abyssal
Dwarven

[B]Abilities:[/B]

Racial:

-2 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 Charisma. 
Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on 

grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters. 
A goblin’s base land speed is 30 feet. 
Darkvision out to 60 feet. 
+4 racial bonus on Move Silently and Ride checks. 
Automatic Languages: Common, Goblin. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Elven, Giant, Gnoll, Orc. 


Class:

Cleric:
Aura (Ex)
Ability to Cast Spells
Spontaneous Casting (Healing Spells)
Turn or Rebuke Undead (Good Aligned) (Su) 7/day (1d20+4 check; 2d6+24)

Hierophoant:
Heal as a Spell-like Ability 4/day
Harm as a Spell-like Ability 2/day
Divine Reach: Can use touch spells up to 30 feet away

[B]Feats:[/B] Cleric:(6) Hierophant:(3)
Scribe Scroll
Cleric:
1st-	Empower Spell
3rd-	Lightning Reflexes 
6th-	Craft Wonderous Item
9th-	Spell Penetration
12th-	Quicken Spell 
15th-	Greater Spell Penetration
Hierophant:
1st-	Spell Like Ability (Heal 4/day taking 9th level slot perm.)
2nd-	Divine Reach
3rd-	Spell Like Ability (Harm 2/day taking 6th level slot perm.)

[B]Skill Points:[/B]108/108		[B]MaxRanks:[/B]23/11.5

[B]Skills				Ranks	Mod	Misc	Total[/B]
Concentration			21	+3		+25
Heal				10	+7		+17		
Knowladge(Religion)		20	+4		+24
Spellcraft			21	+4		+25
Listen(CC)			6	+7		+13
Search(CC)			6	+4		+10
Spot(CC)			6	+7		+13

[B]Equipment:					Cost  		Weight[/B]
Tome of Clear Thought(+3)(Read)			82,500gp	-lb
Tome if Understanding(+4)(Read)			110,000gp	-lb
+5 Small Chain Shirt of Heavy Fort.		100,250gp	18.75lbs
+5 Small Heavy Steel Shield			25,170gp	11.25lbs
+5 Small Adamantine Morningstar of Speed	126,508gp	4.5lbs
Wristbands of Wisdom(+6)			54,000gp	.75lbs
Belt of Gaint Strength(+6)			36,000gp	.75lbs
Ring of Protection(+5)				50,000gp	-lb
Ring of Freedom of Movement and Resistance(+5)	90,000gp	-lb
Cloak of Charisma(+4)				16,000gp	.75lbs
Boots of Striding and Springing			5,500gp		.75lbs
Hewards Handy Haversack				2000gp		3.75lbs
Amulet of Natural Armor(+5)			50,000gp	-lbs

[B]Total Weight:[/B]41.25lb	[B]Money:[/B]12,322gp 0sp 0cp

			[B]Lgt	Med	Hvy	Lift	Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]		75	76-100	101-150	300	750

[B]Age:[/B]29
[B]Height:[/B]3'10"
[B]Weight:[/B]100lb
[B]Eyes:[/B]Solid Black
[B]Hair:[/B]Jet Black
[B]Skin:[/B]Dark Green

[B]Spells Prepared[/B]
Oth-(DC 20) Detect Magicx2, Light, Create Water, Purify Food and Drink, Detect Poison
1st-(DC 21) Comprehend Languagesx2,Detect Undead,Hide From Undead, Remove Ferx2, Bless Waterx2, Detect Secret Doors
2nd-(DC 22) Consecrate, Darkness, Hold Personx3, Silencex2, Zone of Truth, Identify
3rd-(DC 23) Daylight, Deeper Darkness, Ivis. Purge, Protection from Enegryx2, Stoneshapex2, Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
4th-(DC 24) Air Walk, Neutralize Poisonx3, Restorationx2, Tongues, Divination
5th-(DC 25) Commune, Flamestrikex3, Planeshift, Slay Living, Spell Resistance
6th-(DC 26) {Harm as Spell-like 2/day (DC 26)},Blade Barrier, Greater Dispell Magic, Heal, Wind Walk, Harm, Antimagic Field
7th-(DC 27) Destruction, Holy Word, Regenerate, Repulsion, Spell Turning
8th-(DC 28) Antimagic Field, Firestorm, Dimensional Lock, Discern Location
9th-(DC 29){Heal as Spell-like 4/day(DC 26)}, Enegry Drain, Mordenkainen's Disjunction
```

*Appearance:*Meekor is not what would be described as your normal, slightly inept goblin. Qiute the opposite really as his wisdom and mind are nearly unmatched for his racial sterotypes. He bathes himself, or tries to at lease semi daily and keeps his hair cropped and slicked back whereever possible. He prefers his vestments over any other type of garment he owns, the deep golden color of his god, Boccob, which is a stark contrast aginst his forest dark green skin. The rather intresting little creature stands nearly 4 feet tall and weighs in at just under 100 pounds soaking wet and holding a mud brick.

*Background:*Meekor had a rather normal childhood, if you can call the lifestyles of a goblin normal. He was raised by his parents untill the age of 13 and once killed in a raid by a pack of adventurers he was on his own for nearly a year before the story of his life truely begins. 

Meekor was, at this point, leaps and bound above what his kin would consider smart, thus giving him a slight edge in survival on his own. Yet, like most of his kin, Meekor was adventually captured and sold into slavery to a pack of wondering Orge Magi. These were dark times for the little goblin as not only was he thier slave, they also forced him into the faith of thier god of choice Boccob and they issued him the task of learning the ways of Boccob to thier bennifit. 

Meekors destiny was now that of the faithfull of Boccob, he was forced to learn healing and protection spells for the use on Ogre Magi in thier raids. They used him in every way, shape, and form as thier own personal healing wand and spell fodder. At first the little goblin fought with all his will to block out thier mindless drilling of the magic gods faith and powers, he wanted nothing to do with it. Yet as time passed Meekor soon realised this may be his ticket to freedom and instead of fighting his past and present, he embraced Boccob as his future and put himself to the task of power never seen of his kind before.

Meekor trained hard and long, day in and day out, only breaking when the Orge Magi needed his powers to thwart thier foes in there neverending quest for more power and riches. As time went by the Magi lost track of what and how the little goblin learned his holy magics and to more a point, how strong he was becomming. It was not long before Meekor was to free himself from the Magi's clutches in a bloody mass of spell and steel. 

Once slain he learned very quickly that it was anothers fate as well to slay the minions that kept the goblin at bay for so long... a strong fighter and skilled mage in that of a man named Whin presented himself and made his intentions known very quickly. At first Meekor was overpowered by the man seemingly bred for destruction and thought his life would be freed all for naught, yet once his faith and powers were made known the the stranger his attitude was changed and all for the better. The two learned from eachother, Whin more from Meekor really as the goblin told the spellfighter about the god of magic and how much more powerfull he could become once his faith was set to him. 

The two wanted nothing more than power and self control, they craved it, and recived it for a short time with little resistance at all before Boccob himself came to both in dream. Being that of a faithfull to the magic god, Meekor was able to grasp the dreams of both and make them understood and shared this information with Whin. Now both set out on the task of thier god and for themselves in something that can prove to be nothing more than the next step in supreme power.

This shall be Meekors chance to lead, instead of being the one forced into doing what others deside. He now will prove to Boccob his powers bestowed and skills gained were not in vain...


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 11, 2007)

Three concepts are swimming in my head now. Darimaus, would any of the following concepts be acceptable:

Asherati Dry Lich Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 10/ Contemplative 7

Kobold Factotum 5/Trapsmith 5/Combat Trapsmith 5/ ??? 5

or maybe an Icarnate 20


----------



## moritheil (Apr 11, 2007)

I'm going to try to fill a hole in the party composition, if possible.

First set . . . 79 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?a=show&id=969213
Second set . . 72 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?a=show&id=969219
Third set . . . 78 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?a=show&id=969220

I'll continue later . . .


----------



## Insight (Apr 11, 2007)

Wow I got an 82 right off the bat:

17, 15, 15, 12, 12, 11 

EDIT: Oops forgot to have it reroll 1s.

New One: 17, 15, 15, 13, 13, 11 

EDIT: I am looking at a fighter type, possibly a straight fighter (or maybe a fighter with a PrC), or maybe a Ranger or Barbarian.  Probably a core race unless I can buy off LA.  I might interested in doing a Minotaur Ranger if I could lessen the LA somehow.

First Question: Is material from the Magic Item Compendium allowed?
Second Question: Are you allowing material from the Unearthed Arcana?  I am specifically thinking of the alternate class abilities (and those from the PHB2 for that matter), and also the "buying off LA" options.


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 11, 2007)

I wouldn't mind playing if there's still a slot.  Been wanting to try out a high level pbp for a while now.

Roll 1
Roll 2 (Argh, a 79)
Roll 3 (85 Makes it)

Concept and character will come shortly, if there's still room.

Hrm.  I was thinking initially about a Warblade (Book of 9 Swords) 20, or a Warblade 15 with Master of Nine 5 added on at the end.  Stats of 18, 14, 16, 14, 14, 14 after level adjustments but before equipment.  Do you think the Bo9S would be too disruptive, or are you fine with it?


----------



## moritheil (Apr 11, 2007)

Forgot to tell it to take 3: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969342
71: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969347

I'm skeptical of using 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3) because it seems that rather than rerolling 1s, it just rolls 2-6.

Redoing the 1s in the first roll of this post, I need to reroll 2d6:
[4,5,4,3] = (16)
[2,5,1,5] = (13) -- reroll 1
[5,3,2,1] = (11) -- reroll 1
[2,2,4,5] = (13)
[3,5,5,2] = (15)
[6,5,2,4] = (17)

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969348 ->[5,5]

That makes it
[4,5,4] = (13)
[5,5,5] = (15) -- rerolled 1
[5,3,5] = (13) -- rerolled 1
[2,4,5] = (11)
[3,5,5] = (13)
[6,5,4] = (15)

For a grand total of 80.   :\  Well, those were pretty unimpressive anyhow!

Hit enter prematurely, resulting in the wrong number of rolls: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969356

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969360
[3,5,6,3] = (17)
[2,4,3,5] = (14)
[6,1,3,2] = (12) -- reroll
[4,3,3,5] = (15)
[1,4,3,6] = (14) -- reroll
[1,2,3,3] = (9)  -- reroll

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969361 -> [5,2,6] = (13)

[3,5,6] = (14)
[4,3,5] = (12)
[6,5,3] = (14) -- rerolled
[4,3,5] = (12)
[4,3,6] = (13) -- rerolled
[6,3,3] = (12)  -- rerolled

Total: 77.

Okay, switching to 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3):
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969371
[6,5,4] = (15)
[4,4,2] = (10)
[6,6,4] = (16)
[6,5,3] = (14)
[6,5,5] = (16)
[6,6,5] = (17)

Total: 88

Well, I guess that was worth it.  I'm thinking of making a shugenja (hence the name.)


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 11, 2007)

moritheil - Sounds good. Another fine example why I have a min stat points system lol.

zeb.hillard - while in the past I have found the Book of the Nine to be a kick in the teeth, we're probably going to have some high level casters to balance it out, so I'm ok with it.

Insight - Wow, you found it. My one breaking point. I'm going to have to say no to the Unearthed Arcana stuff, sorry. As for Magic item Compendium, go nuts.

Avalon® - All three look good, though I must say I like the concept of seeing someone else use Magic of Incarnum for a change 

Rathan - A quick glance over of your character doesn't reveal any pressing issues, I'll probably pull out the fine tooth comb after work tonight. As for the slot switching ect, you seem to got it right. I won't be allowing the slotless items, sorry. I'm not sure what you need an ELH for, your still 20th level.


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 11, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> zeb.hillard - while in the past I have found the Book of the Nine to be a kick in the teeth, we're probably going to have some high level casters to balance it out, so I'm ok with it.




I'll begin picking out maneuvers and whatnot, should be finished by either late tonight or tomorrow morning.


----------



## Insight (Apr 11, 2007)

Actually, I might make a Psionic character, since my face to face group doesn't use Psionics, and it appears that you allow it.

EDIT:  All right, after some review, I believe I'm looking at a Duergar Psion (Telepath) 10, Thrallherd 9.  Let me know if that's OK.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 11, 2007)

I just realized that we already have a cleric.  Rather than a shugenja, I might want to make a druid for some more versatile summoning support.  Does anyone have any objections or ideas?

Er, also, if someone is going lich for sure, please let me know, as it could strain credibility to have a druid and a lich working together . . .


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 11, 2007)

Darimaus, this is where I'm sitting so far.
SBlock'd to save space.  I'll have the rest of the gold spent and maneuvers figured out/written up tonight.

[sblock]
Salimesh (CR 20) 
Human Warblade 15, Master of Nine 5
CG Medium Humanoid
Init +7; Senses Listen +12, Spot +12
Languages Common, Elven

AC 43, Touch 18, Flat-Footed 28
hp 254 (15d12+5d8+120)
Hit Point Verification: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969397 (Should have added 60, not 30)
Fort +21, Ref +14, Will +20

*Spd* 30 ft. (6 squares) 
*Base Atk* +18; *Grp* +27

•	+33, (Fiendslayer, 1d8+16 (+2d6 vs Evil), 19-20x2)
•	+33/+28/+23/+18 (Full Attack, as above)
•	+29, (+2 Flaming Adamantine Gauntlet, 1d4+11+1d6 Fire, x2)
•	+23, (+2 Returning Shortspear, 1d6+11, x2)

*Abilities* Str 28, Dex 16, Con 24, Int 14, Wis 14, Cha 14
Stat Verification: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969326

*SQ * Battle Ardor, Battle Clarity, Battle Cunning, Battle Mastery, Battle Skill, Counter Stance, Dual Stance, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Mastery of Nine, Perfect Form

*Feats* Able Learner (1H), Adaptive Style (1), Blind-Fight (WBl5), Dodge (3), Improved Initiative (WBl9), Improved Unarmed Strike (9), Martial Study: Shadow Hand (Cloak of Deception)(12), Power Attack (18), Quick Draw (WBl13), Weapon Focus: Longsword (6), Weapon Specialization: Longsword (15)

*Skills* Balance +20, Climb +11, Concentration +26, Diplomacy +25, Hide +8, Jump +34, Knowledge (History) +7, Knowledge (Local) +5, Listen +12, Martial Lore +7, Sense Motive +7, Spot +12, Swim +8, Tumble +23

*Possessions (760,000)* +5 Mithral Full Plate of Heavy Fortification, +5 Heavy Steel Shield, +5 Holy Ghost Touch Cold Iron Longsword, +2 Adamantine Flaming Gauntlet, +2 Shortspear of Returning, Goggles of Night, Belt of Giant Strength +6, Amulet of Health +6, Gloves of Dexterity +2, Ring of Protection and Natural Armor +5, Cloak of Resistance +5, Necklace of Adaptation, Boots of Striding and Springing, 15,203 gps remaining

110,650	+5 Mithral Full Plate of Heavy Fortification
26,020	+5 Heavy Steel Shield
130,315	+5 Holy Ghost Touch Cold Iron Longsword (Fiendslayer)
21,005	+2 Flaming Adamantine Spiked Gauntlet
32,302	+2 Returning Shortspear

110,000	Manuel of Gainful Exercise +4
55,000	Manuel of Bodily Health +2

12,000	Goggles of Night
36,000	Belt of Giant Strength +6
36,000	Amulet of Health +6
4,000	Gloves of Dexterity +2
125,000	Ring of Protection and Natural Armor +5
25,000	Cloak of Resistance +5
9,000	Necklace of Adaptation
5,500	Boots of Striding and Springing

*Notes * 4th Level to Int., 8th to Wis., 12th to Cha, 14th and 16th to Con.

*Skill Ranks Assigned, Before Modifications:*
24+6+6+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+9+9+9+9+9
Balance +20, Climb +5, Concentration +23, Diplomacy +23, Hide +5, Jump +23, Knowledge (History) +5, Knowledge (Local) +3, Listen +10, Martial Lore +5, Sense Motive +5, Spot +10, Swim +5, Tumble +23
[/sblock]


----------



## Scotley (Apr 11, 2007)

Sounds like fun. How about Bariaur (planer handbook) Ranger or Fighter. Likely an archer build. 

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969622 First set didn't make the cut. 

stats 2nd attempt (4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=12, 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=15, 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=15, 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=8, 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=14, 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=14, 4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)=12) I managed to squeek in with 82 this set. 

So, 15, 15, 14, 14, 12, 12.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 11, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Er, also, if someone is going lich for sure, please let me know, as it could strain credibility to have a druid and a lich working together . . .




The point of the adventure itself is all the gods/creeds/religions/ forming together to stop a common foe, regardless of alignment or beliefs. As such, there is no problems with  a druid and a lich working together (not saying they would like it though lol)


----------



## Rathan (Apr 11, 2007)

here's a question I've really never come across before..... are the 'mass' healing spells able to be spont. casted? Mass Cure Critical Wounds for instance...


----------



## moritheil (Apr 11, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> The point of the adventure itself is all the gods/creeds/religions/ forming together to stop a common foe, regardless of alignment or beliefs. As such, there is no problems with  a druid and a lich working together (not saying they would like it though lol)




Okay then!      Here's a character build.  I haven't really looked at items.  I decided I was keeping the name, so I wrote a bit of backstory to explain it.  My skills are also unfinished.

[sblock=Daidoji Ichiru]CHARACTER NAME : Daidoji Ichiru
RACE (ECL) : Human (+0)
CLASS (LEVEL) : Ninja 2/Druid 7/Daggerspell Shaper 8/Pious Templar 1/Divine Oracle 2
... NET LEVEL : 20
ALIGNMENT : N
SIZE : Medium
SPEED : 30 ft
TYPE : Humanoid (Human)

Trained from youth to be an assassin, Ichiru was rescued by a kind hermit following a failed mission.  From him he learned the virtues of nature.  Now he uses his skills to ensure that none despoil the wilds.  Having received dire omens of a threat that imperils the world, he has journeyed to the isle to stop it.

Books used: SRD, PHB, PHB II, C. Adv, C. Div, PGF
Updated version posted below.[/sblock]

[sblock=spells]
  Naturewatch
Necromancy
S
Close range
Target: Quarter circle to the end of the range
Duration: 10 min/level

As deathwatch, but plants/animals only.  You get information about their general condition as well.


  Omen of Peril
Divination
V,S
Full-round action
Duration: Instantaneous

70% + 1%/level chance to accurately foretell the next hour:
Safety - no immediate danger on the present course
Danger - challenging but not overwhelming
Grave Danger - life-threatening

  Nature's Favor
Evocation
V, S, DF
Standard action
1 min/lvl

Animal gains +1 luck to att and dam per 2 caster levels.
[/sblock]


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 12, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Looking at those stats, I'ld personally take Roll 2 even though it's under 80.. It's got 3 high stats, and a couple really low stats.. Could make for good roleplaying.  Besides, What do berserkers need mental stats for, eh?




You do have a point. 
If it is ok with you, Darimaus, I will be taking the numbersfrom Roll 2 over the ones that actually made it over 80. Making my final base numbers: 

Str: 18 -- Dex: 15 -- Con: 16 -- Wis: 7 -- Int: 10 -- Cha: 6

Hit Points  (Better than the average): 359

[Sblock=Obsidian]
	
	



```
Name: Obsidian
Class: Barbarian 3/ Fighter 2/ Warforged Juggernaunt 5/ 
     Frenzied Berserker 10  Age: ??
Race: Warforged           Height: 10' 0"
Size: Large (Huge)        Weight: 4545 lbs
Gender: Male 		  Eyes: Purple
Alignment: Chaotic Evil   Hair: None
Deity: War                Skin: Black & Purple

Class & Racial Traits:
Barbarian & Fighter       Character Level
Rage 3/day (16 rounds)    Feats: 7
Uncanny Dodge             Ability Increases: 4
Fast Movement
Illiteracy
Feats: 2

Warforged Juggernaunt
Imunnities: Critical Hits, All mind affects and
abilities (good & bad), Non-leathal Damage, death & 
necormancy effects, ability drain & damage, poison, 
sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, 
exhaustion, sickened, healing subschool
Expert Bull Rush: +5 Bullrush
Superior Bull Rush: +2d8+3d6+19 damage on bullrush
Powerful & Greater Powerful Charge: (+3d6)
Armor Spikes: 2d6
Reserved: -5 Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Info, Sense Motive
Extended Charge: +5' to charge
Charge Bonus: +4 Charge Attack

Frenzied Berserker
Greater Frenzy 5/day (16 rounds)
Inspire Frenzy 3/day
Supreme Power Attack (-1/+4)
Diehard, Supreme Cleave, Deathless Frenzy, Tireless Frenzy

Str: 24/48 (+19)  Level: 20     XP: 
Dex: 14 (+2)      BAB: +18      HP: 359 [399] (18d12+2d10+220)
Con: 24/28 (+13)  Grapple: +41  Dmg Red: 2/Adam 
Int: 10 (+0)      Speed: 20'    Spell Res: -
Wis: 5  (-3)      Init: +4      Spell Save: - 
Cha: 4  (-3)      ACP: -6       Spell Fail: 50%

       Base Armor Shld  Dex Size Nat Misc Total
Armor:  10   +13   +5   +1   -1  +0  +0    28 (22 Rage & Frenzy)
Touch: 13    Flat-Footed: 12

      Base Mod Misc Total
Fort:  17  +13  +6   +34/+36
Ref:   5   +3   +6   +14
Will:  5   +13  +8   +24/+26 (Rage & Frenzy)

Armor              Bonus Dex ACP ASF  Weight  Cost
H. Shield +5        +5    -   -1 15%    -lbs  49,270gp
- Animated
Adam Full Pate +5   +13   +1  -5 35%    -lbs  100,000gp
- Proof Against Transmutation

Weapon         Attack               Damage          Critical Range Weight Cost  
Granite   +42/42/37/32/27    4d6+34 (+2d6+1d6+1d6)     x3      -   20lbs  167,324gp
    Gargantuan Starmetal, Holy, Sonic and Acid Warhammer +5 (Starmetal +1d6 vs Outsiders)
 **Power Attack: -1/+4
 **Charge Bonus: +4 Charge Attack & +5' to Speed
 **Powerful & Greater Powerful Charge: +3d6

Equipment                   Cost / Weight
Strength Tome +4          (110,000gp / -lbs) [USED]
Permanant Enlarge         (4,000 gp / -lbs)  [USED]
Iuon Stone (Pale Green)   (30,000gp / -lbs)
Read Magic & Comp. Lang.  (5,200gp / -lbs)  [Head]
Traker Mask               (18,000gp / -lbs) [Eyes]
Amulet of Health +6       (36,000gp / -lbs) [Neck]
Cloak of Displ., Minor    (24,000gp / -lbs) [Back]
Vest of Resistance +5     (50,000gp / -lbs) [Chest]
*Belt of Battle           (12,000gp / -lbs) [Waist] 
*Strongarm Bracers        (6,000gp / -lbs)  [Arms] (Gives Powerful Build)
*Skirmisher Boots of the  (6,800gp / -lbs)  [Feet] 
      Battle Charger
Gloves of Gaint Str +6    (5,500gp / -lbs)  [Hands]
Freedom of Movement       (40,000gp / -lbs) [Ring 1]
Regeneration              (50,000gp / -lbs) [Ring 2]

*Magic Item Compendium

Total Gold Spent: 775,590
Total Gold Remaining: 410

Current Capacity: Light (200)
Carry Capacity: Light: 0 – 12800 Med.: 12,801 – 25,600 Heavy: 25,601 – 38,400 
                Lift: 76,800 Drag: 192,000

Languages: All

Feats: (10) 
Adamantine Armor, Power Attack, Cleave, Extra Rage, Improved Bullrush
Destructive Rage, Intimidating Rage, Endurance, Steadfast Determination


Skill Points: 50 Max Ranks: 23
Skills                Abil Ranks Mod Misc Total
Climb                 Str   13   +19  -6   26
Intimidate            Cha   23   -3        20
Jump                  Str   14   +19  -1   32
```
[/sblock]

-Blood


----------



## Lord_Raven88 (Apr 12, 2007)

Here are my ability score rolls

11 15 12 10 15 11 14 = 78 (drop 10)

14 8 9 16 15 12 11 = 77 (drop 8)

14 17 11 16 17 14 11 =89 (drop 11)

107 Hit Points Slightly less than average 

At the moment I'm working my way through creating an *Evolved Spellstitched Aserati Dry Lich Cleric 3 / Sorc 1 / Walker in the Waste 10 / Mystic Theurge 5*  

[sblock=Character Submission(work in progress)]
	
	



```
[B]Name:[/B] M'ut Nazihar
[B]Class:[/B] Cleric 3 / Sorcerer 1 / Walker in the Waste 10 / Mystic Theurge 5
[B]Race:[/B] Evolved Spellstiched Asherati Dry Lich
[B]Size:[/B] Medium
[B]Gender:[/B] Male
[B]Alignment:[/B] Neutral
[B]Deity:[/B] Zoser
[b]Domains:[/b] Air, Sand

[B]Str:[/B] 20 +5  (16)       [B]Level:[/B] 19       [B]XP:[/B] 200000
[B]Dex:[/B] 18 +4  (17)       [B]BAB:[/B] +10        [B]HP:[/B] 366 (19d12+247)
[B]Con:[/B] --     (11)       [B]Grapple:[/B]        [B]Dmg Red:[/B] 10 Bludgeoning and Magic
[B]Int:[/B] 14 +4  (14)       [B]Speed:[/B] 30'(P)   [B]Spell Res:[/B] 23
[B]Wis:[/B] 19 +1  (14)       [B]Init:[/B] +8        [B]Spell Save:[/B] +X
[B]Cha:[/B] 37 +13 (17)       [B]ACP:[/B] -0         [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%

                   [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Armor:[/B]              10    +8    +0    +4    +0    +9    +0    31
[B]Touch:[/B] 14              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] 27

                         [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]                      7    +0    +0    +7  
[B]Ref:[/B]                       5    +4    +0    +9  
[B]Will:[/B]                     16    +10   +0    +16

[B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B]
Eldritch Blast            +11    3d6        20x2
Dessicating Touch         +15/+10 5d6(5d8) + 1d6 constitution drain

[B]Feats:[/B] Heat Endurance(b), Improved Heat Endurance(b), Force of Personality, Improved Initiative, Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Spiked Chain), Fiery Spell, Seering Spell, ?, ?, Improved Turn Resistance, Necrotic Reserve.
Flaw: Inattentive, Murky Eyed.

[B]Skill Points:[/B] 60        [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 12/6
[B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B]
Appraise                  0.0    4     0     4
Balance                   0.0    4     0     4
Bluff                     0.0   13     0    13
Climb                     0.0    5     0     5
Concentration            17.0   13     0    30
Craft (Untrained)         0.0    4     0     4
Diplomacy                 2.0   13     0    15
Disguise                  0.0   13     0    13
Escape Artist             0.0    4     0     4
Gather Information        0.0   13     0    13
Heal                      0.0    4     0     4
Hide                      0.0    4    10    14(16 sandy enviroments)
Intimidate                2.0   13     8    23
Jump                      0.0    5     0     5
Know (Arcana)            23.0    2     0    25
Know (Religion)          23.0    2     0    25
Listen                    0.0    4     4     8
Move Silently             0.0    4    10    14
Search                    0.0    2     8    10
Sense Motive              0.0    4     0     4 
Spellcraft               23.0    2     0    25
Spot                      0.0    4     4     8
Tumble                    0.0    4     0     4

[B]Equipment:						   Cost  Weight[/B]
Desert Outfit						         6gp     3lb
+4 Mithral Twilight Chainshirt				     26250gp  12.5lb
Brooch of Shielding (101 pts)				      1500gp     
Bag of Tricks (gray)					       600gp     *lb - One animal is summoned and drained each day.
Belt of Hidden Pouches					      5000gp     *lb
Books (+1 Dex, +1 Wis, +5 Cha)				    192500gp     
Bottle of Endless Sand					     21000gp     2lb
Cloak of Charisma(+6)					     36000gp     2lb
Potions(4) Cause Serious Wounds				      3000gp     
Ring of X-Ray Vision (always active)			     25000gp     

Spellstitched Cost 					     48500gp (1000gp + 47500gp [9500xp (19 Wis * 500 xp) x 5gp])


[B]Total Weight:[/B] 0lb      [B]Money:[/B] 421650gp 

                           [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]                *    *    *    *    *
```

*Languages:* Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Elvin, Draconic, Orcish.

*Abilities:*
*Asheratis*
+1 Natural armour
Natural Dryness(ex): Drink one quarter the amount of water per day that humanoids of their size normally require
Sandswim(su): Can sandswim through ash, dust or sand at his land speed while wearing light armour or carrying a light load. Speed reduced to 5 feet if wearing heavier armour or carrying a medium load.  An asherati breathes normally while under the sand.
Body Lamp(su): Can make his skin glow at will, providing bright light out to 60 feet and shadowy illumination out to 120 feet.  In medium loose soil (such as ash, dust or sand) this light allows an asherati to make out solid objects up to 60 feet away.  Once per day as a free action, an asherati can bring his skin up to full brilliance so rapidly that it can dazzle all creatures (DC 31) within 30 feet for 1 minute.
Heat Endurance: Gain Heat Endurance as a bonus feat.
Weapon Familiarity: Treat the eagle's claw as a martial weapon.
+2 racial bonus on Move Silently and Hide checks. If in a sandy area, an asherati receives an additional +2 racial bonus on Hide checks.
Water Vulnerability: If completely wet, an asherati take a -1 penalty on all attacks, ability checks, and skill checks.  If an asherati is imersed in water, he can't hold his breath and must begin making Constitution checks to avoid drowning.

*Dry Lich*
Undead Type
Darkvision 60 feet
+5 Natural Armour
Aura of Despair(su): Any creature within a 60 foot radius must succeed on a will save (DC 31) or be shaken for 1d4 rounds.
Constitution Drain: Any living creature a dry lich hits with it's touch attack must suceed on a fortitude save (DC31) or take 1d6 points of Constitution drain. With each successful drain, the dry lich gains 5 temporary hit points.
Turn Resistance(ex): +6 turn resistance (+12 due to feat and template)
Damage Reduction(su): 10 bludgeoning and magic
Fast Healing(ex): A dry lich recovers 2 hit points of damage each round as long as it is in an arid enviroment.
Immunities(ex): Immunity to dehydration, heat, polymorph, and mid-affecting spells and abilities.
Unholy Toughness(ex): A dry lich gains a bonus to it's hit points equal to it's Charisma bonus times it's Hit Dice.
Water Weakness: All water deals damage to a dry lich as if it were holy water.
Abilities: Str +2, Wis +4,  Cha +2.
Dry lich Skills: +8 racial bonus on Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently, Search and Spot checks.

*Evolved Undead*
+1 Natural Armour
Spell-like Ability(sp): Greater Invisibility 1/day CL19.
Fast Healing(ex): An evolved undead heals 3 points of damage each round.
Abilities: Str +2, Cha +2
LA +1

*Spellstitched*
Spell-like Abilities(sp): CL 19 (Conj, Evo, Necro)
1st Level: ?, Ray of Enfeeblement 2/day
2nd Level: Command Undead 2/day, Spectral Hand 2/day
3rd Level: ?, ?
4th Level: ?, Create Undead 1/day, 
5th Level: ?, Teleport 1/day
6th Level: Harm 1/day

Damage Reduction(ex): 5 magic and silver
Spell Resistance(ex): 23 (10 + Charisma modifier)
Turn Resistance(ex): +2 turn resistance
Saves: +2 profane bonus on all saving throws.

*Cleric*
Weapon and Armour Proficiency: Simple weapons and all types of armour and shields (except tower shields)
Aura(ex): A cleric of a chaotic, evil, good, or lawful diety has a particularly powerful aura corresponding to the diety's alignment.
Spontaneous Casting: Can channel stored spell energy into 'inflict' spells.
Rebuke Undead(su): Rebuke undead as a 3rd level cleric 16 times per day.

*Sorcerer*
Metamagic Specialist: Can apply metamagic feats to sorcerer spells without increasing the casting time 5 times per day.

*Walker in the Waste*
Desiccating Touch(su): As a touch attack, a WitW can drain moisture from a living creature, 5d6 points of damage or 5d8 points of damage against plant creatures or elementals with the water subtype.  The touched creature can make a fortitude save (DC24) for half damage.
Improved Heat Endurance as a bonus feat
The Wasting(su): Can transform a handful of dust or sand into a terrible disease. Once per day you can blow sand into the face of a living opponent with 20 feet.  Using this ability is a standard action that provokes attacks of opportunity.  The dust can be picked up as a move action or take it from a pouch as a free action.  The opponent must succeed in a reflex save (DC24) to avoid inhaling the dust.  An opponent who fails this save contracts the wasting, a supernatural affliction that gradually mummifies it's victims (see Sandstorm page 21)
Local Drought(su): Produce desert conditions in a 20 foot radius.  The temperature band in the area rises by one step or to hot, whichever produces the hotter result.  This can be suppresses for 1 round as a free action, but it renews automatically on your next turn, unless it is consciously suppressed again.
Withered Toughness(ex): +2 natural armour. Immune to dehydration and heat dangers, sun glare and sunburn
Pillar of Salt(sp): Can use Flesh to salt once per day.
Create Sand Golem(ex): Can create sand golems without the need for the Craft Golem feat.
Create Salt Mummy(su): Can create salt mummies.
Greater Drought(su): Can produce extreme desert conditions in a 100 foot radius.  The temperature band rises by two steps or to severe heat, whichever produces the hotter result.  This can be suppresses for 1 round as a free action, but it renews automatically on your next turn, unless it is consciously suppressed again.
Dry Lich: Become a dry lich.

*Age:* 
*Height:* 6'
*Weight:* 190
*Eyes:* 
*Hair:* none
*Skin:* 
*Appearance:* 

*Background:* 
[/sblock]


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 12, 2007)

Would you allow an increase in intelligence to retroactively gain skills?


----------



## Unkabear (Apr 12, 2007)

Alright here is my concept.  Let me know what you think.

Grift
[sblock]
*Grift*
*Race*: Pixie
*Level*: (ecl+4, Rogue 16)
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good
*Size*: Small
*Height*: 2 1/2’
*Weight*: 30lbs
*Speed*: 20’ walk 60’ fly good maneuverability
*Type*: Fey

[6,5,3] = (14)
[6,5,5] = (16)
[6,5,5] = (16)
[6,4,3] = (13)
[6,6,3] = (15)
[6,4,3] = (13)

*Str*   10 +0
*Dex *  26 +8
*Con *  16 +3
*Int *   20 +5
*Wis *  20 +5
*Cha *  19 +4

*BAB * +12/+7/+2   Ranged  +20/+15/+10 Grapple +8

*AC * 38 = 10 + 8 armor + 8 dex + 1 small + 5 deflection + 6 natural armor
Damage reduction 10/cold iron,  spell resistance equal to 31
*HP * 103 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=970194 

*Fort* 8 = 5 + 3
*Ref* 20 = 10 + 8 + 2(Rogues Vest)
*Will* 10 = 5 + 5

*Weapons & Damage*
+3 FDP Small Light Crossbow +24/+19/+14 1d6+7 19-20x2 80ft
+3 DPM Small Short Sword +23/+18/+13 1d4+3 19-20x2 (True Death Crystal)
Dagger Thrown +21/+16/+11 1d3 19-20x2
SA 8d6 (1d6 Rogues Vest, 1d6 Deadly Precision = 10d6)


```
[B]Skills[/B]	                    total		ranks		skill mod	misc		synergy
									
Bluff (Cha)	              [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Decipher Script (Int)	      [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Diplomacy (Cha)	              [B]4[/B]	        =		+	4	+		+
Disable Device (Int)	      [B]23[/B]	=	19	+	4	+		+
Escape Artist (Dex)	      [B]18[/B]	=	10	+	8	+		+
Gather Information (Cha)      [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Hide (Dex)	              [B]33[/B]	=	19	+	8	+	6	+
Intimidate (Cha)	      [B]16[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+	2 Bluff
Listen (Wis)	              [B]26[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	2	+
Move Silently (Dex)	      [B]29[/B]	=	19	+	8	+	2	+
Open Lock (Dex)	              [B]27[/B]	=	19	+	8	+		+
Search (Int)	              [B]33[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	9	+
Sense Motive (Wis)	      [B]26[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	2	+
Sleight of Hand (Dex)	      [B]20[/B]	=	10	+	8	+		+	2 Bluff
Spot (Wis)	              [B]35[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	11	+
Tumble (Dex)	              [B]17[/B]	=	9	+	8	+		+
Use Magic Device (Cha)	      [B]23[/B]	=	19	+	4	+		+
Use Rope (Dex)	              [B]8[/B] 	=		+	8	+		+
			240 Total Skill Points
```

*Magic Items*
Ring of Protection +5 
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 
Bracers of Armor +8 
Rogues Vest 
Gauntlet of Infinite Blades 
Crystal Mask of Insight 
Ring of Regeneration 
Boots of Tracklessness 
Greater Truedeath Crystal 
+3 Deadly Precision Metaline Shortsword 
+3 Force Deadly Precision Light Crossbow 
Everfull Mug 
Everlasting Rations 
Personal Oasis 
Hewards Handy Haversack 
80 cases of crossbow bolts 
Bottle of air 
Wand of shatter 
Wand of Knock 
Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds 
Wand of fireball (5th) 
10 exploding spikes 
Rod of Bodily restoration 
Thorn Pouch 

*Eq*
Dagger
Candle
Chalk 3 pieces
Flint & Steel
Mirror Small Steel
Oil (1-pint flask)(x2)
Sewing Needle
Whetstone
Masterwork Thieves Picks
Ever Burning Torch
Explorers Outfit


*feats * 
Point Blank Shot (lvl1), Precise shot (lvl3), Weapon Focus Light Crossbow (lvl6), Crossbow Sniper (lvl9), Rapid Reload (lvl12), Dead Eye Shot(lvl15), Savvy Rogue (rogue Spec Abil 16), Dodge (racial bonus), Weapon Finesse (racial bonus)

*rogue special abilities*
Improved Evasion, Crippling Strike, Feat, Sneak Attack 8d6, Trap sense +5, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Evasion

*Racial Abilities*
Greater Invisibility (Su) A pixie remains invisible even when it attacks. This ability is constant, but the pixie can suppress or resume it as a free action.

*Spell-Like Abilities*
1/day—lesser confusion (DC 14), dancing lights, detect chaos, detect good, detect evil, detect law, detect thoughts (DC 15), dispel magic, entangle (DC 14), permanent image (DC 19; visual and auditory elements only). Caster level 8th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. 

*History*
Grift is a rogue in employ of the Useeli Court, The council of Fey directed by their gods sent a delegation to No Mans Land to assist in stopping the actions and machinations of the Disciples of Uaedo.  Grift was chosen by the Useeli Court for his ability as a scout and for his skills in infiltrating harder to access locations that may hold information or items of interest to the Court.  Grift tends to be more cautious about his actions and speed to battle.  His cool head has saved the lives of others teamed with him in the past and though he is not delegated as the leader of this team, it would be assumed that he would manage to be a voice of reason to a leader forced to work with mortal enemies in the face of a greater evil.

*Desc*
Grift doesn't look like much and that’s the way he likes it.  He long ago scorned the ways of his people.  He wears clothing more similar to what could be found in the realms of humans much to everyone’s dismay.  If it wasn't for his effectiveness he would have been scorned a long time back.  But some things are willingly looked over for value.  His hair is bright blue and close cropped.  His skin is a deep olive color and his eyes a bright orange.

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968060

Pixie characters possess the following racial traits. 
•	-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma. 
•	Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters. 
•	A pixie’s base land speed is 20 feet. It also has a fly speed of 60 feet (good). 
•	Low-light vision. 
•	Skills: Pixies have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. 
•	Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats. 
•	+1 natural armor bonus. 
•	Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities. 
•	Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels. 
•	Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling. 
•	Favored Class: Sorcerer. 
•	Level adjustment +4

[/sblock]

Updated Char sheet.


----------



## Rathan (Apr 12, 2007)

wow uuuhh... some of you REALLY like those PrC's huh?... I've not been privy to alot of these so seeing them used is kinda new to me.... I play an irc DnD game and only core rules and a few monster races and templates are allowed... no PrC's... I didn't think having that many PrC's was a good idea but seeing some of your character builds... alot of them work well with bunches of others..... really intresting characters guys


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 12, 2007)

I think I'll try a monk...or maybe a scout/shadowdancer...hmmm...


----------



## Rathan (Apr 12, 2007)

Little things updated on my char sheet on the previous page.... as well as Appearance and Background added.... I added spells this afternoon so they should be ok to go still. let me know on what I need to work on Darimaus.... Thanks


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 12, 2007)

Alrighty, normally at this point, I would be answering all your questions right now. But unfortunatly, I hate to sya, I just finished a rather bad day at work, so I'm not in a thinking mood right now. I'll get to it tommorow afternoon. 

What I am posting for today, is to pose a question and a vote to all who want to be involved in this adventure. There are two options for me to progress this.

1. I can go the normal route, and take a 4-5 person party through a carefully crafted adventure.

2. I can do something a little different, and scrap the standard party dynamic. Instead, I can take a large group of you, (up to 12 I think) and place you into my precreated world and let you all progress the story as you see fit. The only main issue that comes up with this design is I would like to see regular posting, though because the characters are not going to be forced by some unseen hand to stay together and follow a set course, the people who post on a more regular occasion won't be held back as much. Its a thought anyway.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 12, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Would you allow an increase in intelligence to retroactively gain skills?




Well, considering the rules specifically say that DOESN'T happen...


And btw, Rathan, if you like those prestige classes, wait'll you see my piece'o'work.

I've got a few concepts, the first I'm working on is a Feral Human Saint Monk 2, Swashbuckler 3, Thief Acrobat 5, Duelist 7.  I was going to multiclass a little more, but I wanted elaborate Parry and Improved Evasion, so I ended up consolidating the classes a bit more.  The original had 2 templates and 6 classes.

Another concept is a Warmage6/Fighter1/Argent Savant2/Eldritch Knight6/Abjurant Champion5... though I may drop the fighter/E.Knight for just straight up Warmage levels to get 9th level spellcasting. 
Other Ideas I just came up with (Upon noticing Darimus's two options),..
I'd probably vote for the second one, and play either some sort of sorcerer (Maybe the above warmage) or a Warlock.


----------



## Rathan (Apr 12, 2007)

I know how you feel... I banged my wrist pretty hard todat at work myself Darimaus.... I hope all goes better tomorrow and it's understood that you'd want a night to yourself without having ti field 50,000 questions all at once.. heh....

As for your alternate idea.... though I'm usually all for free form rp (I assume it'll mostl likely be most like a FF rp at that point with all of us meeting back at the end for a last hoorah at the end..) I would rather see a selection of players and a carefully crafted adventure myself.... but again that's just me.... even if I don't get picked I think the players will get more out of that kind of adventure IMHO.... again this is just my lowly opinion heh

- Rathan


----------



## Lord_Raven88 (Apr 12, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Three concepts are swimming in my head now. Darimaus, would any of the following concepts be acceptable:
> 
> Asherati Dry Lich Cleric 3/Walker in the Waste 10/ Contemplative 7
> 
> ...



Thats spooky.  Your first concept is very close to what I settled on submitting   

I'm not familar with the contemplative PrC though, I'll have to look it up to see what it's about.


----------



## Rathan (Apr 12, 2007)

ahhhh it's soooo nice to see others the post here at 6 in the morning... heh.. I didn't think anyone here posted at night.. I was beginning to think something was wrong with me LOL


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 12, 2007)

When the Soulforger created us dwarves, many became envious of his creations. They envied the riches that the All-Father bestowed upon us and they sought to have them as their own. Our enemies were many. They banded together and waged war against us and our kin. They did this for the precious ore and gems that were given to us by Moradin himself. Thus began the War of the Gem. In the darkest days of that war, when the enemies of the dwarves were near victory, that the clerics prayed to the the All-Father for help. Hearing their prayers, Moradin gave one of the dwarves a boon. He gave him the knowledge of a word of power from the ancient dwarven tongue.

This word, when carved unto a piece of armor blessed by Moradin's clerics, enabled the wearer to channel the souls of his ancestors and mold them into solid objects. The person who donned this armor became the first Guardian of the dwarves: the Mirkan Diral. 

[sblock= Therin Grimarmor]Therin Grimarmor
Male Fireblood Dwarf Incarnate 20th lvl
Lawful Neutral

Str 24 (14 +6 enhancement +4 inherent)
Dex 20 (14 +6 enhacement)
Con 34 (17+2 racial +5 level +6 enhacement +4 inherent)
Int 19 (13 +6 enhacement)
Wis 18 (12 +6 enhacement)
Cha 16 (12 -2 racial +6 enhacement) 

Hit Points 434 (74+240+120)
AC 35 (10 base +10 armor +5 dex +5 deflection +5 natural), Touch 20, Flat 30
Init +7 
BAB +10, Grap +17
Speed 30 ft. (base 20 ft., load 20/233, light)
Fort +32 (12 base +12 con +1 luck +2 enhancement +5 resistance), Ref +17 (6 base +5 dex +1 luck +5 resistance), Will +22 (12 base +4 wis +1 luck +5 resistance)

+28 Melee, Incarnum Weapon (Longsword), 1d8+27, 19-20/x2

Medium, 4'3" tall, 178 lbs., 68 yrs old
Rusty Copper hair, ruby red eyes, Dark red-brown skin

Speaks Common, Dwarven, Gnome


+16 Jump (9 cc acp) 
+28 Spellcraft (23)
+12 Listen (7 cc) 
+12 Spot (7 cc)

Feats
-Power Attack
-Cobalt Charge (Magic of Incarnum)
-Bonus Essentia (Magic of Incarnum)
-Double Chakra - Arms (Magic of Incarnum)
-Necrocarnum Acolyte (Magic of Incarnum)
-Leap Attack (Complete Adventurer)
-Shape Soulmeld - Dragon Mantle (Dragon Magic)

Fireblood Dwarf Traits
-+2 Con, -2 Cha
-Medium size
-Outsider Type
-Dragonblood Subtype
-Base Land Speed 20 ft.
-Darkvision 60 ft.
-Stonecunning
-Weapon Familiarity: Dwarven Waraxe, Dwarven Urgosh
-Stability
-+1 racial bonus on attack rolls against orcs and goblinoids
-+2 racial bonus on saving throws against spells and spell-like effects
-+2 racial bonus on Appraise checks related to stone or metal
-Dragon Dodge: +4 dodge bonus to AC against creatures of the dragon type.
-Resistance to Fire 5
-Automatic Languages: Common and Dwarven. Bonus Languages: Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran, and Undercommon.
-Favored Class: Fighter

Incarnate Abilities
-Aura of Law (as aura of a cleric)
-Detect Opposition at will
-Expanded Soulmeld Capacity +2
-Incarnum Radiance 4/day (+5 bonus on melee attack rolls. 15 round duration)
-Rapid Meldshaping 3/day
-Share Incarnum Radiance
-Perfect Meldshaper 1/day (7 round duration)
-True Incarnation

[sblock= Soulmelds (Magic of Incarnum)]Soulbinds: 9 Essentia Pool: 29 Essentia Capacity: 6
Meldshaper Level: 20
Crown: *Elder Spirit*, +4 insight bonus on Knowledge (arcana), knowledge (history), and use magic device checks, and checks can be made untrained. +2 increase per essentia invested. (Bound) Immune to Frightful Presence, Sleep, and Paralysis effects as if you were a dragon. Gain +4 insight bonus to Intimidate. +2 additional bonus per essentia invested.
Brow:
Throat:
Shoulders: *Adamant Pauldrons*, Gain DR N/ Chaos where N is equal to essentia invested. (Bound) Gain 50% chance to negate a critical hit or sneak attack.
Arms: (7) *Incarnum Weapon*, Gain a longsword. +1 enhancement bonus per essentia./  (7) *Bluesteel Bracers*, +2 insight bonus to initiative. +1 insight bonus to damage rolls per essentia invested.
Hands: (3) *Necrocarnate Weapon*, Bypasses DR as if it were evil-aligned. +1 profane bonus on damage and +1 on attack rolls to confirm critical threats. Bonuses apply only when the weapon is used against living creatures. (Bound) Gain temporary essentia equal to essentia invested when you make a critical hit on a living creature. 10 round duration.
Heart: *Dragon Mantle*, +2 enhancement bonus to Fort saves. Gain resistance to acid, electricity, fire, and cold equal to 3 x essentia invested. (Bound) Gain Fast Healing equal to essentia invested when at or below half of normal hit points.
Soul: (4) *Incarnate Avatar*, +1 insight bonus to melee attack rolls per essentia
Waist: (6) *Vitality Belt* , +4 morale bonus on Con checks and Con-based skills. Gain hitpoints equal to meldshaper level per essentia invested.
Feet: (2)*Cerulean Sandals*, you can walk on water. +5 feet enhancement bonus to base land speed per essentia invested.

Cobalt Charge:
[/sblock]

Equipment:
+5 Soulfire* Mithral Breastplate 85,200 gp
Ring of Protection +5 50,000gp
Wand of Divine Power – 50 charges (CL 20) 60,000 gp
Manual of Bodily Health +4 -used 110,000 gp
Manual of Gainful Excercise +4 -used 110,000 gp
Belt of Magnificence +6 200,000 gp (Miniature's Handbook, p.42)
Incarnum Bracers 25,000 gp (bound) (Magic of Incarnum, p.114)
Luckstone 20,000 gp
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 50,000gp
Cloak of Resistance +5 25,000 gp
24800 gp left

*Soulfire: Book of Exalted Deeds page 112

[/sblock]


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 12, 2007)

Lord_Raven88 said:
			
		

> Thats spooky.  Your first concept is very close to what I settled on submitting
> 
> I'm not familar with the contemplative PrC though, I'll have to look it up to see what it's about.




It's in the Complete Divine. Actually, I'm not yet sure as to what I'm gonna play coz they're all so good. Couldn't we please have like two (or three) characters each?   Darimaus?


----------



## Insight (Apr 12, 2007)

The second option would probably be a lot more work, but that's up to the DM.  It would most likely allow everyone who's posted to play in the game, however, so it's a double-edged sword (or maybe a two-bladed sword, if you will).

My original concept for a Duergar Psion (Telepath) 10, Thrallherd 9 is kinda cool, and he's almost done, but I'm not sure I have a handle on what sort of personality and motivations he would have.

I may end up scrapping him for either a Githyanki Psychic Warrior/Monk/Fist of Zuoken, or maybe a Human Rogue/Monk/Shadowdancer.  My other option is to dump Thrallherd and make my Duergar a Shaper, which seems more like what a Duergar might be as a Psion.  That would also enable me to heal the Warforged


----------



## Scotley (Apr 12, 2007)

It seems way more than 4 or 5 are going to put up character ideas. In the interests of getting to play I vote for the second option of a larger group. I can post at least daily.


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 12, 2007)

A quiet warrior from far-travelled lands, his original home was victim to the Blood War and he has spent his years since exacting his vengeance against any fiend or devil that he can find.  With Fiendslayer and his enhanced Dagger, not to mention his unparallelled mastery of the 9-fold Way, he never yields to the Baatezu of the Tanar'ri, relying on his talents to allow him to overcome their innate prowess and drive them to the depths of the Hells they came from.

He is a quiet man, prompted to action at this point in his life only when great danger threatens, or demon and devil rise up.  He will don his gleaming armor and pick up his shield and blade, shouldering a bow taken from a devil long ago and remade for a man of his strength.  A hero of near-epic proportions, that has no respect for the laws of nature or man, only in the greater concept of good itself...and for those ideals he would risk life and limb, and journey to the ends of the Earth itself.

(If you need more information on the Maneuvers and Stances, I can easily type it up.)

Salimesh (CR 20)
[sblock]
Human Warblade 15, Master of Nine 5
CG Medium Humanoid
*Init* +9; *Senses* Listen +7, Spot +7, Darkvision 60’
*Languages* Common and Infernal

*AC* 43, *Touch* 21, *Flat-Footed* 29
*hp* 294 (15d12+5d8+160) (Assuming 26 Constitution)
Hit Point Verification: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969397 (Should have added 160, not 30)
*Fort* +23, *Ref* +15, *Will* +16

*Spd* 40 ft. (8 squares) 
*Base Atk* +18; *Grp* +27

(*) +34, (Fiendslayer, 1d8+17, 19-20x2)
(*) +34, (As Above, Versus Evil, 1d8+17+2d6, 19-20x2)
(*) +36, (As Above, Versus Evil Outsiders, 1d8+19+4d6, 19-20x2)
(*) +31, (+2 Silver Dagger, 1d4+13, 19-20x2)
(*) +24, (Mighty (+9) Composite Longbow +1, 1d8+10+1d6 Fire, x3)

*Abilities* Str 28, Dex 20, Con 26, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 14
Stat Verification: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=969326

*SQ* Battle Ardor, Battle Clarity, Battle Cunning, Battle Mastery, Battle Skill, Counter Stance, Dual Stance, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Mastery of Nine, Perfect Form

*Feats* Adaptive Style (3), Blind-Fight (WBl5), Combat Reflexes (WBl13), Dodge (1), Improved Initiative (WBl9), Improved Unarmed Strike (12), Martial Study: Shadow Hand (Cloak of Deception)(9), Melee Weapon Mastery: Slashing (18), Power Attack (1H), Weapon Focus: Longsword (6), Weapon Specialization: Longsword (15)

*Skills* Balance +16, Climb +13, Concentration +41, Diplomacy +22, Hide +15, Jump +40, Knowledge (History) +8, Knowledge (Local) +8, Listen +7, Martial Lore +8, Sense Motive +10, Spot +7, Swim +12, Tumble +27

*Possessions (760,000)* +1 Flaming Composite Mighty (+9) Longbow, +2 Silver Dagger, +5 Heavy Mithral Shield, +4 Holy Ghost Touch Cold Iron Longsword Bane vs Evil Outsiders (Fiendslayer), +5 Mithral Breastplate, Amulet of Health +6, Belt of Giant Strength +6, Boots of Striding and Springing, Cloak of Resistance +5, Efficient Quiver, Goggles of Night, Gloves of Dexterity +6, Headband of Clarity (Intelligence +2, Concentration +10), Ioun Stones (Dusty Rose and Clear: Both color-changed to appear Lavender and Green), _Manual of Bodily Health +4 - used_, _Manual of Gainful Exercise +4 - used_, Necklace of Adaptation, Ring of Evasion and Adaptation, Ring of Protection and Natural Armor +5, 5,000gp Diamond

*Notes* 4th Level to Int., 8th to Wis., 12th to Cha, 14th and 16th to Con.
-Battle Ardor: +Int Modifier to confirm Crits
-Battle Clarity: When not flat-footed, +Int Mod to Reflex saves
-Battle Cunning: +Int Modifier to damage against Flat-Footed or Flanked foes
-Battle Mastery: +Int Mod to atk and dmg when making AoO’s
-Battle Skill: +Int Mod in defense on bull rush, disarm, feint, overrun, sunder, or trip
-Counter Stance: Whenever you initiate a Counter, you may change Stance for free
-Dual Stance: May remain in 2 stances for up to 10 rounds per day
-Improved Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian, 15th level
-Mastery of Nine: +2 to hit for all Strikes, +5 Damage
-Perfect Form: All Save DC’s for maneuvers increase by 1
-Uncanny Dodge: As Barbarian, 15th Level
-Weapon Aptitude: Qualify for feats as Fighter -2, may retrain all weapon specific feats to a different weapon.

Chosen Maneuvers (Bold Maneuvers are Readied)

Diamond Mind
[sblock]
Sapphire Nighttime Blade (pg 65): Strike: Make a Concentration check with a DC of your target’s AC.  If successful, you may make an attack against your opponent, he is considered Flat-Footed, and you do an additional 1d6 damage.  If the Concentration check fails, your attack is made with a -2 penalty and deals normal damage.

Emerald Razor (pg 63): Strike: Make a single melee attack against an opponent, as a Touch Attack.  If you hit, you deal normal damage.

*Diamond Defense (pg 62): Counter: You may add your initiator level as a bonus to one saving throw as an immediate action.

Diamond Nightmare Blade (pg 62): Strike: Make a Concentration check with a DC of your target’s AC.  You may then make a melee attack against your target.  If successful, your attack deals 4 times your normal melee damage.  If your check fails, your attack is made with a -2 penalty and you do not deal any damage.  If the successful attack is a critical hit, you stack multipliers like normal.

Time Stands Still (pg 66): Strike: You may make a full attack two times in succession.  * 
[/sblock]
Iron Heart
[sblock]
Disarming Strike (pg 67): Strike: Make a single melee attack.  If this attack hits and deals damage, you can also attempt to disarm your opponent.  This disarm does not provoke an attack of opportunity, nor is there any risk that your foe can disarm you.

*Iron Heart Surge (pg 68): Misc: Take a Standard Action and select one spell, effect, or condition currently affecting you with a duration of 1 or more rounds.  That effect ends immediately.  You also gain a +2 morale bonus to attack rolls until the end of next turn.*

Lightning Throw (pg 68): Strike: Make a single Melee attack.  You deal damage to each creature in the maneuver’s area (30’ line) equal to your normal Melee damage, plus an extra 12d6 points of damage.  Each creature in the line can make a Reflex Save with a DC of your To-Hit roll to halve the damage dealt.  Your weapon automatically returns to your hand at the end of the round.

*Adamantine Hurricane (pg 66): Strike: You make 2 melee attacks against each opponent you threaten when you initiate this maneuver.  You receive a +4 bonus on each of these attacks, which are made with your highest attack bonus.

Strike of Perfect Clarity (pg 70): Strike: If you hit your opponent, you do +100 damage*
[/sblock]
Shadow Hand
[sblock]
Clock of Deception (pg 76): Boost: When you initiate this Boost, you become Invisible (As per Greater Invisibility).  You remain Invisible until the end of your current turn.

*Shadow Stride (pg 80): Misc.: You may spend 1 move action to teleport up to 50 feet.  You must have both line of sight, and effect.  * 
[/sblock]
Stone Dragon
[sblock]
*Crushing Vice (pg 82): Strike: As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack.  This attack deals an additional 4d6 damage.  If the creature you hit is standing on the ground, your attack also reduces the targets speed to 0 feet (For all movement types) for 1 round.  The secondary aspect of this maneuver only functions on opponents on the ground, flying opponents are not immune to the additional damage, however.

Mountain Tombstone Strike (pg 84): Strike: As part of this maneuver, make a melee attack.  If the attack hits, you deal 2d6 points of Constitution damage in addition to your normal damage.*
[/sblock]
Tiger Claw
[sblock]
Rabid Wolf Strike (pg 88): Strike: Make a single melee attack, you gain a +4 bonus on this attack roll and deal an extra 2d6 points of damage.  You take a -4 penalty to your AC until the start of your next turn.
[/sblock]
White Raven
[sblock]
Leading the Attack (pg 91): As part of this maneuver, make a single melee attack.  If your attack is successful, your allies gain a +4 morale bonus on attack rolls against the creature you hit, for one round.

*White Raven Tactics (pg 94): Boost: Select an Ally within 10 feet.  His initiative count immediately equals your own -1.  He then acts on his new initiative count as normal.  If he had already acted in the current round, he can act again.*

War Leader’s Charge (pg 93): Strike: Charge an opponent, you do not provoke attacks of opportunity from movement.  If you hit, you deal an extra 35 points of damage.

*White Raven Hammer (pg 94): Strike: Make a single attack against an opponent.  Your attack deals an extra 6d6 points of damage, and stuns your opponent for 1 full round.*
[/sblock]
Chosen Stances
[sblock]
Stance of Clarity (pg 66)
You gain +2 Dodge bonus to AC against one enemy, and -2 to AC to all other enemies.

Punishing Stance (pg 69)
You take a 2 point penalty to AC, but deal +1d6 damage with all strikes.

Supreme Blade Parry (pg 70)
While in this stance, you gain Damage Reduction 5/- against any opponent that doesn’t catch you flat-footed.

Press the Advantage (pg 93)
When you take a 5’ step, you may immediately take another.  This allows you to take one 5’ step into difficult terrain.

Swarm Tactics (pg 93)
If you threaten an enemy, all of your allies gain +5 to hit that enemy.
[/sblock]

Skill Ranks Assigned, Before Modifications:
24+6+6+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+7+9+9+9+9+9
Balance +12, Climb +5, Concentration +23, Diplomacy +20, Hide +10, Jump +23, Knowledge (History) +5, Knowledge (Local) +5, Listen +5, Martial Lore +5, Sense Motive +8, Spot +5, Swim +5, Tumble +23
[/sblock]


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## Kafkonia (Apr 12, 2007)

Just wanted to post before I forgot, I'm not sure if I'll actually do up a character -- high-level is awkward as a PbP -- but here's my roll: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=970874

4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [5,3,2] = (10)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,6,6] = (18)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,5,4] = (15)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,3,3] = (12)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,4,3] = (13)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,6,5] = (17)


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## moritheil (Apr 12, 2007)

I'm going to be cutting it back to four classes total, actually.  The Pious Templar level isn't really necessary theme-wise, and it doesn't make sense to take it instead of 9th level spells, when I'm supposed to be backup healer/summoner.

I have a question about how druid wild shape works: they altered the polymorph rules in PHB II.  How does this affect wild shape?  Will this mess with my plans to be a sneak-attacking, elemental-summoning, ally-healing dire bear?     The new text apparently says that one loses class abilities, but that seems a bit crazy since that completely changes the normal druid class build and would make natural spell (and the Daggerspell Shaper PrC, which is largely built around sneak attacking in wild form) useless.

I see that many others are considering rogue types.  Most excellent.   

The only thing I'm worried about with the huge party adventure is the tendency of parties full of people who don't like each other to break into smaller parties.  I have no real preference.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 12, 2007)

I would prefer a party based game instead of multiple solo ones. Party interaction is one of many main boons for me.   


-Blood


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## moritheil (Apr 12, 2007)

Updated.

[sblock=Daidoji Ichiru]CHARACTER NAME : Daidoji Ichiru
RACE (ECL) : Human (+0)
CLASS (LEVEL) : Ninja 2/Druid 7/Daggerspell Shaper 9/Divine Oracle 2
... NET LEVEL : 20
ALIGNMENT : N
SIZE : Medium
SPEED : 30 ft
TYPE : Humanoid (Human)

Trained from youth to be an assassin, Ichiru was rescued by a kind hermit following a failed mission.  From him he learned the virtues of nature.  Now he uses his skills to ensure that none despoil the wilds.  Having received dire omens of a threat that imperils the world, he has journeyed to the isle to stop it.

Books used: SRD, PHB, PHB II, C. Adv, C. Div, PGF, C. War, Eb., Und

EXPERIENCE : xp
CASH : 760k gp

ABILITY SCORES  15 10 14 16 16 17
Str 16 (+3) (10/base 6/enh)
Dex 20 (+5) (15/base 5/inh)
Con 22 (+6) (16/base 6/enh)
Int 16 (+3) (16/base) 
Wis 33 (+11) (17/base 5/bon 5/inh 6/enh)
Cha 14 (+2) (14/base)

SAVES
FORT +13 (5/dru 3/ds 6/con)
REF +16 (3/nin 2/dru 6/ds 5/dex) Evasion
WILL +27 (5/dru 6/ds 3/divo 11/wis 2/ki)

Dire Bear:  Str 37, Dex 18, Con 25, Int 16, Wis 33, Cha 14, (large)
w/ Growth:  Str 45, Dex 16, Con 29, Int 16, Wis 33, Cha 14, DR 10/magic, +4 resist, 10' reach (huge)

Dire Bear Form
FORT +14 (5/dru 3/ds 7/con)
REF +15 (3/nin 2/dru 6/ds 4/dex) Evasion
WILL +27 (5/dru 6/ds 3/divo 11/wis 2/ki)

w/ Growth
FORT +20 (5/dru 3/ds 9/con 4/resist)
REF +18 (3/nin 2/dru 6/ds 3/dex 4/resist) Evasion
WILL +31 (5/dru 6/ds 3/divo 9/wis 2/ki 4/resist)



HIT POINTS : 13d6 + 7d8 +120 = to be rolled
ARMOR CLASS
Standard : 34 (10/base 5/dex 11/wis 8/force armor) 
Touch : 26 (10/base 5/dex 11/wis) 31 vs. incorp.
Flat-Foot : 29 (10/base 11/wis 8/force armor) 

Dire Bear Form
Standard : 32 (10/base 4/dex 11/wis 8/force armor -1/size) 
Touch : 24 (10/base 4/dex 11/wis -1/size)
Flat-Foot : 28 (10/base 11/wis 8/force armor -1/size) 


INITIATIVE : +5 (5/dex)
BASE ATTACK : +13 
RANGED : +18 (5/dex)
MELEE : +17 (3/str 1/enh)  Dire Bear form: +31 (17/str 1/enh)

WEAPONS
+1 sure striking spellstoring magebane dagger   [35002 gp; adamantium, overcomes align DR, DC 24 poison stored]
+1 paralyzing magebane dagger      [35002 gp; adamantium, will DC 17 or held]

Magebane adds +2 to hit and +2d6 damage vs. arcane or Sp.
When wildshaped the daggers become claws, but the bonuses and properties still apply.


LANGUAGES
Auran, Common, Druidic, Sylvan, Terran

RACIAL TRAITS
1 free feat, 1 extra skill point/level.

CLASS FEATURES
Ninja: AC bonus, 1d6 SA, ki power invisible (12/day), +2 will, trapfinding
Druid: Wild shape 3/day, Woodland stride, trackless step, wild empathy, animal companion, +2 to know (nat), survival
Daggerspell Shaper: Daggercast, move action wild shape, retain bonuses from gear (daggers, +str/con/dex), +3d6 SA
  Wild shape +2/day; large and tiny.
Divine Oracle: Oracle Domain (+2 to Divination CL), +1 to Divination DC.  Trap sense +1 Ac, +1 saves.
  Prescient Sense (evasion in armor).

Casts: 7 druid + 8 shaper +2 oracle = as 17th druid (19 for divinations)
Wild shape: 5/day, 16 hrs, large/tiny.
Sneak attack: +4d6.
Wild empathy: 7/dip +2/ha +7/dru = +16.

FEATS
Cha 1 . Weapon Focus (dagger)
Cha 1 . Silent Spell
Cha 3 . TWF
Cha 6 . Natural Spell
Cha 9 . Savage Grapple: Add SA to grapple.
Cha12 . Still Spell
Cha15 . Skill Focus: Know (religion)
Cha18 . PGF Innate spell: Heal (lose 1 7th slot; gain Heal 3/day (sp).)
---------------[ Epic Threshold! ]---------------
Cha21 .
Cha24 .

SKILLS (5+9)*(6+4) +7*(4+4) +2*(2+4) = 140 +56 +12 = 208
There is considerable room to move levels around in this build.

Bluff              +7 (5 ranks 2 cha) +2 to diplomacy, sleight, intimidate
Concentration     +25 (23 ranks 6 con)
Diplomacy          +7 (1 ranks 2 cha 2/bluff 2/sm)
Handle Animal      +7 (5 ranks 2 cha)  +2 to ride, wild empathy
Heal              +12 (1 ranks 11 wis)
Know (Arcana)      +8 (5 ranks 3 int)
Know (Nature)     +28 (23 ranks 3 int 2/dru) +2 to survival
Know (Planes)      +8 (5 ranks 3 int) +2 to survival
Know (Religion)   +29 (23 ranks 3 int 3/feat) +2 to turning
Listen            +16 (5 ranks 11 wis)
Search             +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Sense Motive      +31 (20 ranks 11 wis) +2 to diplomacy
Sleight of Hand   +24 (20 ranks 2 dex 2/bluff)
Survival          +16 (1 ranks 11 wis 2/dru 2/kn)
Spellcraft        +28 (23 ranks 3 int 2/ka)
Spot              +31 (20 ranks 11 wis)  Notice presence of active invisible creature: DC 20; unmoving DC 30.
Tumble            +25 (23 ranks 2 dex) 150% bonus on defensive action AC

Spent  204 ranks

Tricks: 4 pts
Acrobatic Backstab (enemy flatfooted if you tumble past)
Collector of Stories (+5 know to identify creatures)
Conceal Spellcasting (Sleight of hand disguises spellcasting; no AOOs etc.)


EQUIPMENT (total 635,584 gp 4sp)
Adventurer's Outfit                [- gp]
Belt of Health                     [36000 gp; +6 con]
Gauntlets of Power                 [36000 gp; +6 str]
Periapt of Wisdom                  [36000 gp; +6 Wis]
Jade Circlet                       [1500 gp; also serves as focus for shapechange]
Gem of Spell Extending             [3700 gp; Extend up to 6th level sp, 

1/day]
Skill Trinket, Clarity of Vision   [1000 gp; (DC 20 spot pinpoints all invis within 30')]
Skill Trinket, Back on your Feet   [1000 gp; (as soon as you fall prone, stand immediately.  No AOOs.)]
Bracers of Armor +8                [64,000 gp; force AC 8]
Starmantle Cloak                   [132,000 gp; perm starmantle: ref DC 15 to halve magic weapon dmg]
Boots of Haste                     [12000 gp; haste 10 rounds/day]

+1 sure striking spellstoring magebane dagger   [35002 gp; adamantium, overcomes align DR, DC 24 poison stored]
+1 paralyzing magebane dagger      [35002 gp; adamantium, will DC 17 or held]
Tome +5 Wis                        [137,500 gp; consumed]
Tome +5 Dex                        [137,500 gp; consumed]
Strand of Prayer Beads             [25,800 gp; beads of healing, karma, smiting]
Bead of healing 	Wearer can cast his choice of cure serious wounds, remove blindness/deafness, or remove disease.
Bead of karma 		Wearer casts his spells at +4 caster level. Effect lasts 10 minutes.
Bead of smiting 	Wearer can cast chaos hammer, holy smite, order’s wrath, or unholy blight (Will DC 17 partial).
Each special bead can be used once per day.


MW Composite Longbow               [330 gp; Darkwood; 1d8 x3; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Cold Iron (20)		   [40 gp; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Silver (10)		   [30 gp; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Regular (40)		   [40 gp; in weightless storage]
Efficient Quiver		   [1800 gp]
Antitoxin x2			   [100 gp; +5 Fort vs. poison 1 hr.]
Cold Iron Caltrops x5		   [10 gp; in weightless storage]
Silk Rope 			   [20 gp; 100', +2 use rope, 10 lbs.] 
Pearl of Power I x4                [4000 gp; recall 4x 1st level spell]


Wand of Lesser Vigor               [750 gp; 50 charges, fast healing 1 for 11 rounds]
Sacred Scabbard                    [4400 gp; Bless Weapon 3/day, CL4]
Antitoxin x1                       [50 gp; +5 Fort vs. poison 1 hr.]

STUFF (14gp 4sp)

Hooded Lantern                     [7 gp]
Oil x10                            [1 gp]
Shovel                             [2 gp]
Waterskin                          [1 gp]
Symbol x2                          [2 gp]
Tindertwig                         [1 gp]
Bedroll                            [1 sp]
Parchment                          [2 sp]
Chalk x5                           [5 cp]
Whetstone                          [2 cp]
Flask of water                     [3 cp]

DRUID SPELLS:   6	5+1	5+1	5+1	4+1	4+1	4+1	3+1	2+1	1+1
BONUS: +11	—	3	3	3	2	2	2	2-1	1	1

0 - detect magic x2, detect poison, naturewatch, purify food and drink, read magic
1 - entangle, faerie fire x2, omen of peril x2, lesser vigor, silvered claws, winged watcher, identify*
2 - barkskin, briar web, master air, resist energy x2, soften earth and stone x2, warp wood, augury*
3 - dominate animal, greater magic fang x2, nature's favor x2, poison, quench, spike growth, divination*
4 - chain of eyes, flamestrike, freedom of movement x2, last breath, rusting grasp, scrying*
5 - Animal Growth x2, Baleful Polymorph, Death Ward, wall of Thorns, stilled freedom of movement, commune*
6 - Cometfall, Find the Path, Greater Dispel Magic x2, Miasma, stilled silent freedom of movement, legend lore*
7 - Slime Wave, Sunbeam, True Seeing, greater scrying*
8 - Sunburst, Word of Recall, discern location* 
9 - Shapechange x2, foresight*

*Domain spell. 

Notes for use: Unicorns are SNA 4; Huge elementals SNA 6.
[/sblock]

[sblock=spells]
  Naturewatch
Necromancy
S
Close range
Target: Quarter circle to the end of the range
Duration: 10 min/level

As deathwatch, but plants/animals only.  You get information about their general condition as well.


  Omen of Peril
Divination
V,S
Full-round action
Duration: Instantaneous

70% + 1%/level chance to accurately foretell the next hour:
Safety - no immediate danger on the present course
Danger - challenging but not overwhelming
Grave Danger - life-threatening

  Nature's Favor
Evocation
V, S, DF
Standard action
1 min/lvl

Animal gains +1 luck to att and dam per 2 caster levels.

Master Air(MoF p107)
<Trans, VSF(feather or wing bone)/DF, 1StdAct, Personal, 1rnd/lvl>
– The caster grows insubstantial wings & flies at a speed of 90’ (60’ if in medium or heavy armor) with Good maneuverability. ½ speed going up, 2x speed going down. If spells expires/is dispelled, subject descends at 60’ per round for 1d6 rounds before falling.

Phantom Stag(CDiv p174) TBD
<Con(creat), VS/DF, 1StdAct, 0’ range, 1hr/lvl(D)>
– The caster conjures a quasi-real stag-like creature that can be used for riding or combat. The stag has the following stats:
a) AC 20;
b) 40 + 5/lvl hp;
c) moves at 20’/lvl (max 300’). Its hooves hover above the ground, so it is not slowed by terrain such as undergrowth, rubble, etc.;
d) attacks with its antlers with a +10 bonus & does 1d8+9 damage (x2 on a Charge);
e) can Trample foes of up to Medium-size by passing through the hex. The foe takes 1d6+9 damage (RefNeg);
f) able to carry its rider plus 10 lbs./lvl. The stag gains additional abilities at higher caster levels (abilities are cumulative):
12th Air Walk, at will for 1 round at a time & gains a +2 Deflection bonus to AC.
14th Movement is now Flying with Average maneuverability & gains a +4 Deflection bonus to AC.
16th Antlers gain the ‘Ghost Touch’ and ‘Wounding’ weapon abilities & gains a +6 Deflection bonus to AC.
18th Etherealness & gains a +8 Deflection bonus to AC.

Quill Blast(CDiv p176)
<Conj(creat), VSM(porcupine quill), 1StdAct, Instantaneous, Ref½, SR applies>
– Needle-sharp quills strike all creatures in a 20’ radius Spread around the caster. Each creature is struck by a number of quills determined by its size (a successful reflex save results in ½ as many quills). 
Size 		#Quills Size #Quills
Up to Tiny 	1 	Large 3d6
Small 		1d4 	Huge+ 4d6
Medium 		2d6

Each quill does 1d6 Piercing damage and lodges in the flesh of its living target. The target takes a –1 cumulative penalty to
attacks, saves, & checks for each quill embedded in it. One quill can be pulled out as a Standard Action, causing 1d6 damage if the extractor fails on a Heal check vs. DC 20.

Storm of Elemental Fury(CDiv p182)
<Conj(sum), VS, 1Round, Long-range, Concentration up to 4 rounds, SR applies>
– A 40’ radius black cloud appears 200’ over the target location. After the first round, the cloud can be moved laterally 40’ as a Move Action (in addition to the Standard Action to maintain Concentration). Those below the cloud receive the following:
Round 1: The area from the cloud down to the ground is effected by a Whirling Windstorm(DMG3.5 p94), which requires Fortitude
saves to avoid being knocked down, negates ranged attacks, spells require Concentration checks, etc.
Round 2: All targets in the area of effect take 5d6 Bludgeoning damage from falling rocks (no save).
Round 3: Torrential rain falls, reducing visibility to 5’, extinguishing unprotected flames, and reducing movement to ½;
Round 4: All target in the area of effect take 1d6 per level Fire damage (Ref½). 
Slime Wave(CDiv p180) (CDivErrata)+
<Conj(sum), VSM(stagnant water), 1StdAct, Closerange, 1rnd/lvl, RefNeg, no SR>
– A 15’ radius Spread is splattered with Green Slime. Each creature or object receives one Patch of Green Slime.
A Green Slim Patch does 1d6 Constitution damage to flesh –or– 2d6 damage to wood & metal (whose Hardness it ignores) each round If not scraped off on its 1st round, the slime must be destroyed with heat, cold, sunlight, Remove Disease, or being cut away.
At the end of the spell’s duration, the Green Slime disappears.


[/sblock]



[sblock=ANIMALS]

Brown Bear (Companion)
Tricks: Defend, Track
SQ: Link, Share Spells


BEAR, BROWN	Large Animal 
Hit Dice: 	6d8+24 (51 hp) 
Initiative: 	+1 
Speed: 	40 ft. (8 squares) 
Armor Class: 	15 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +5 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 14 
Base Attack/Grapple: 	+4/+16 
Attack: 	Claw +11 melee (1d8+8) 
Full Attack: 	2 claws +11 melee (1d8+8) and bite +6 melee (2d6+4) 
Space/Reach: 	10 ft./5 ft. 
Special Attacks: 	Improved grab 
Special Qualities: 	Low-light vision, scent 
Saves: 	Fort +9, Ref +6, Will +3 
Abilities: 	Str 27, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6 
Skills: 	Listen +4, Spot +7, Swim +12 
Feats: 	Endurance, Run, Track 

These massive carnivores weigh more than 1,800 pounds and stand nearly 9 feet tall when they rear up on their hind legs. They are bad-tempered and territorial. The brown bear’s statistics can be used for almost any big bear, including the grizzly.
Combat

A brown bear attacks mainly by tearing at opponents with its claws.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a brown bear must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.

Skills: A brown bear has a +4 racial bonus on Swim checks.

DIRE BEAR
Large Animal Hit Dice: 12d8+51 (105 hp) Initiative: +1 Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) Armor Class: 17 (–1 size, +1 Dex, +7 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 16 Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+23 Attack: Claw +19 melee (2d4+10) Full Attack: 2 claws +19 melee (2d4+10) and bite +13 melee (2d8+5) Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. Special Attacks: Improved grab Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent Saves: Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +9 Abilities: Str 31, Dex 13, Con 19, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 Skills: Listen +10, Spot +10, Swim +13 Feats: Alertness, Endurance, Run, Toughness, Weapon Focus (claw) Environment: Cold forests Organization: Solitary or pair Challenge Rating: 7 Treasure: None Alignment: Always neutral Advancement: 13–16 HD (Large); 17–36 HD (Huge) Level Adjustment: —

The omnivorous dire bear usually does not bother creatures that try to avoid it, but will aggressively defend a kill or other source of food. It will not hesitate to rip apart anything that might contain something edible.

A typical dire bear is 12 feet long and weighs as much as 8,000 pounds.
Combat

A dire bear attacks by tearing at opponents with its claws.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a dire bear must hit with a claw attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity.
[/sblock]


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## Darimaus (Apr 12, 2007)

Avalon® - I'm afraid Int won't retroactively gain skills, sorry. Btw, in terms of tomes of Int, you can start applying the bonus skills from it at 15 and on.

Bloodweaver1 - Feel free to use those numbers, the 80 limit is just a buffer so that pcs don't get stats they diskile.

Alrighty, now time to immerse myself in your characters. I'll post any problems or opinions in a few hours.


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## Darimaus (Apr 12, 2007)

s@squ@tch - Looks good so far. You've got 1 more skill point to spend though ,and you attack with a +21 with your unarmded, not +20 (you've got weapon focus remember).

Rathan - it appears you forgot that multiclassing changes your conventional stats. Your BAB is 14, not 15, and your base saves should be 13,6,13. As well your grapple should be +14, not +11, and your attacks should be at a +23, not a +21 (+5 Enhancement +4 Str + 14 BAB).

zeb.hillard - Don't take offense or anything, but I will be going over your character last based off of the principle that I'll probably need to do a lot of looking up in regards to the book of nine swords.

Lord_Raven88 - I've still got looking over to do on your character, but I've come acroos some problems. First, I'm not using Unearthed Arcana, sorry (see earlier post) so no flaws or buying off level adjustment. Also, you have Eldrich Blast, and I'm not sure why.

Unkabear - Ok, for starters, your BAB is 12, not 13. You forgot to add the pixies natural armor to your AC, and I'm not sure where that +2 you tacked on to your reflex save came from. Other than that, looks good.

Avalon® - I like the concept. I'm looking foreward to seeing it get fleshed out.


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## Insight (Apr 12, 2007)

Here is my current character idea, though it is still subject to change if I get my hands on Complete Psionic.

[sblock=THAK THE FRINGEWALKER]
*THAK THE FRINGEWALKER [ECL 20] 200,000/210,000xp
Male Githzerai (LA +2) Monk 11, Fist of Zuoken 7
LN Medium Humanoid*
*Init* +11; *Senses* Darkvision 60ft, Listen +7, Spot +7
*Languages* Common, Gith. 
*AC* 44, Touch 37, FF 33 (+4 Deflection, +11 Dex, +8 Wis, +4 Class, +5 Armor, +2 Natural).  
*HP* 186
[sblock=Rolls] 10d8(monk)+8(1st)+7d6(fist of zuoken)+90(con)+12(psionic body) (10d8+75=129, 7d6+35=57)[/sblock]
*Fort* +19, *Ref* +28, *Will* +25; *Immunities* Normal Diseases and Poisons; *Special* +2 vs. Spells and Effects of the Enchantment school; *Power Resistance* 23
*Spd* 100ft
*Melee* Unarmed Strike (+30/+25/+20 atk, 2d10+11 dmg) or Flurry of Blows – Unarmed (+30/+30/+30/+25/+20 atk, 2d10+11 dmg) or Staff of Battle Clarity (+20/+20/+15/+10 atk, 1d6+10 dmg) or Flurry of Blows – Staff of Battle Clarity (+20/+20/+20/+15/+10 atk, 1d6+10 dmg)
*Space* 5ft; *Reach* 5ft
*Base Attack* +13; *Grapple* +19
*Attack Options*: Flurry of Blows, Greater Psionic Fist, Ki Strike (lawful and magic), Psionic Fist, Stunning Fist 13/day (FSDC 27)
*Power Points/Day*: 64
*Powers Known*: Manifester Level 7th
*1st*: Hammer, Precognition (Offensive) 
*2nd*: Body Purification, Levitate (Psionic)
*3rd*: Empathic Feedback, Empathic Transfer (Hostile)
*4th*: Freedom of Movement (Psionic)
*Ability Scores* Str 22, Dex 32, Con 20, Int 11, Wis 26, Cha 11
[sblock=Rolls] 17, 15, 15, 13, 13, 11[/sblock]
[sblock=Modifiers]+6 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wis from Race, +1 Str. +1 Dex , +1 Con, +1 Wis  from Level Adjustments, +6 Str, +8 Dex, +6 Con, and +8 Wis from Items.[/sblock] 
*SQ* Diamond Body, Evasion, Improved Evasion, Psi-Like Abilities 3/day (Catfall, Concussion, Inertial Armor, Plane Shift (1/day), Psionic Daze; Manifester Level 9), Purity of Body, Slow Fall 50ft, Still Mind, Wholeness of Body (22hp/day)
*Feats* Body Fuel, Combat Reflexes, Greater Psionic Fist, Improved Disarm, Psionic Body, Psionic Fist, Psionic Meditation, Stunning Fist, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Focus (unarmed), Wild Talent
*Skills* Autohypnosis (7) +17, Balance (5) +18, Climb (0) +11, Concentration (13) +18, Jump (10) +56, Knowledge (psionics) (5) +5, Listen (4) +12, Sense Motive (8) +16, Spot (4) +12, Swim (0) +11, Tumble (16) +31

*Gear*: *Bracers of the Centered Warrior* (Arms Slot; +5 armor bonus to AC, acts as Rapidstrike Bracers (3/day, +2 atk with flurry of blows); 29,650gp), *Cinch of the Seven Meditations* (Waist Slot; +6 enhancement bonus to Dexterity, acts as a Monk’s Belt (counts as Monk 23 for Unarmed Damage and AC Bonus, +1 Stunning Fist per day); 55,500gp), *Footwraps of the Battle Dancer* (Feet Slot; Acts as Acrobat Boots (3 charges, bonuses to land speed, +2 to Tumble), Boots of Agile Leaping (uses Dex mod instead of Str for Jump, stand from prone as a swift action, does not provoke), Boots of the Battle Charger (2/day charge as a standard action), Boots of Striding and Springing (+10 enhancement to speed, +5 to Jump), Quicksilver Boots (2/day make extra move up to land speed, even over liquid); 15,700gp), *Gauntlets of the Minotaur* (Hands Slot; +6 enhancement bonus to Str, acts as Brute Gauntlets (3/day bonus to Str checks, Str-based skill checks, and melee damage) and Brawler’s Gauntlets (3/day +2 on grapple checks and dmg with unarmed strikes); 38,250gp), *Mantle of Solace* (Shoulder Slot; +5 resistance bonus to saves; 25,000gp), *Psicrown of the Cautious Warrior* (Head Slot; 450pp; Adapt Body, Body Adjustment, Inertial Barrier, Precognition (Defensive); Manifester Level 8; 32,063gp), *Ring of the Athlete* (+5 enhancement bonus to Climb and Swim; 6,750gp), *Ring of Slippery Existence* (+4 deflection bonus to AC, acts as Invisibility; 66,000gp), *Crystal Staff of Battle Clarity* (acts as Quarterstaff of Battle, with the Manifester and Power Storing qualities; made of the Deep Crystal special material; 43,600gp), *Talisman of the Inexorable Wanderer* (Throat Slot; +2 enhancement bonus to Natural Armor, +5 enhancement bonus to unarmed attack and damage, +6 enhancement bonus to Con and Wis; 282,000gp), *Third Eye View* (Face Slot; 10,180gp), *2 Cognizance Crystals* (5pp ea; 9,000gp ea), *3 Power Stones* (1d4 Powers ea; Power Level 4th; 700gp ea), *5 Psionic Tattoos* (Power Level 3rd; 750gp ea)
*Note*: Used Manual of Quickness of Action (+2 inherent bonus to Dex; 55,000gp) and Tome of Understanding (+2 inherent bonus to Wis; 55,000gp)
*Wealth*: 12,537gp

I still need to pick the powers for his Power Stones and Psionic Tattoos.[/sblock]


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 12, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> zeb.hillard - Don't take offense or anything, but I will be going over your character last based off of the principle that I'll probably need to do a lot of looking up in regards to the book of nine swords.




No problem at all, if you have any questions/etc, feel free.

And, if it's just too much...I've got a good idea for a Shadowbane Stalker rolling around, if you'd rather see that.


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## Darimaus (Apr 12, 2007)

zeb.hillard said:
			
		

> No problem at all, if you have any questions/etc, feel free.
> 
> And, if it's just too much...I've got a good idea for a Shadowbane Inquisitor rolling around, if you'd rather see that.




Book of Nine isn't a bad thing, its just going to take longer for me to confirm your numbers.


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## Guest 11456 (Apr 12, 2007)

*Grogg the Troglon*

Ability rolls: here
Hit point rolls: here

[sblock]Grogg the Troglon
Male Fiendish Half-Dragon (Black)/Half-Troll Fighter 4 (fiendish +2 ecl, half-dragon +3 ecl, troll +5 ecl & 6 levels of giant, 4 levels of fighter = 10 character levels + 10 ecl)
Alignment: Chaotic Evil
Height: 10’
Weight: 825#
Hair: Black
Eyes: Black
Age: 45

Str: 52 (+21) [17, +12 troll, +8 half-dragon, +4 inherent, +5 level, +6 belt]
Dex: 22 (+6) [14, +4 troll, +4 inherent]
Con: 34 (+12) [15, +12 troll, +2 half-dragon, +5 inherent]
Int: 12 (+1) [14, -4 troll, +2 half-dragon]
Wis: 10 (+0) [12, -2 troll]
Cha: 12 (+1) [14, -4 troll, +2 half-dragon]

Ogre Racial Abilities: +12 Str, +4 Dex, +12 Con, -4 Int, -2 Int, -4 Cha, large size, space/reach: 10ft/10ft, base speed 30 ft, darkvision 60 ft, racial hit dice: 6 levels of giant, +4 BAB, +5 Fortitude, +2 Reflex, +2 Will, racial skills (Listen, Spot), +5 natural armor, natural weapons: claw 1d6, bite 1d6, SA: rend 2d6+31, SQ: regeneration 5, scent, +5 LA.

Half-Dragon Racial Abilities: +8 Str, +2 Con, +2 Int, +2 Cha, type changes to dragon, increase base creature’s HD by one die size, wings and can fly at twice base land speed with average maneuverability, +4 natural armor, two claw attacks 1d6 and a bite attack 1d8, breath weapon: 60ft line of acid (6d8 damage; Reflex save DC 14 for half), low-light vision, immunity to sleep, immunity to paralysis, immunity to acid, 42 racial skill points, +3 LA.

Fiendish Abilities: Smite good 1/day +6 damage, darkvision 60 ft, damage reduction 5 magic, resistance to cold 5 & fire 5, spell resistance 11, natural weapons are considered magical for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction, +2 LA.

Hit Dice: 10d10+120 [6d10+72 giant (increased to d10s by half-dragon template), 4d10+48 fighter]
HP: 169 [100 giant, 69 fighter]
AC: 37 (10 base, +6 Dex, +5 natural troll, +4 natural half-dragon, -1 size, +5 amulet, +8 bracers)
ACP: +0
Init: +10 (+6 Dex, +4 feat)
Base Speed: 30ft, fly 60ft (average)

Saves:
Fortitude +21 [+5 giant, +4 fighter, +12 Con]
Reflex +9 [+2 giant, +1 fighter, +6 Dex]
Will +3 [+2 giant, +1 fighter, +0 Wis]

BAB: +8 (+4 giant, +4 fighter)
Grapple: +33 (+8 BAB, +21 Str, +4 size)

Weapons:
+5 Large Keen, Mighty Cleaving Greatsword of Speed (+34, 3d6+38, 17-20/x2, S) [AB: +8 BAB, +21 Str, +5 weapon, +1 feat, -1 size; Dmg: +31 Str, +5 weapon, +2 feat]
Claw (+28, 1d6+21, x2) [AB: +8 BAB, +21 Str, -1 size; Dmg: +21 Str]
Bite (+26, 1d8+10, x2) [AB: +8 BAB, +21 Str, -1 size, -2 penalty; Dmg: +10 Str]

Skills:
Climb +29 [4 ranks cc giant, 4 ranks fighter, +21 Str]
Intimidate +5 [4 ranks cc giant, +1 Cha]
Jump +28 [4 ranks cc giant, 3 ranks fighter, +21 Str]
Listen +10 [9 ranks giant, +1 ranks cc fighter, +0 Wis]
Search +5 [4 ranks cc giant, +1 Int]
Spot +10 [9 ranks giant, +1 ranks cc fighter, +0 Wis]
Swim +25 [4 ranks cc giant, +21 Str]
Tumble +9 [2.5 ranks cc giant, +0.5 ranks cc fighter, +6 Dex]

Feats:
Character Level Feats:
Weapon Focus [Greatsword] (1)
Multiattack (3)
Improved Initiative (6)
Cleave (9)

Fighter Bonus Feats:
Blind-Fight (1)
Power Attack (2)
Weapon Specialization [Greatsword] (4)

Languages: Common, Giant.

Encumbrance: 11 tons Light; 22 tons Medium; 33 tons Heavy; 66 tons Lift; 166 tons Drag

Equipment
Large Traveler’s Outfit (worn)
Belt of Giant Strength +6 (36,000gp, 1#, worn)
+5 Large Keen, Mighty Cleaving Greatsword of Speed (200,400gp, 16#, held)
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (50,000gp, worn)
Bracers of Armor +8 (64,000gp, 1#, worn)
Greater Ring of Fire Resistance (44,000gp, worn)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500gp, worn)
Handy Haversack (2,000gp, 5#, back)
Rope of Climbing (3,000gp, 3#, haversack)
5 Everburning Torches (550gp, 5#, haversack)
250ft of Silk Rope (50gp, 25#, haversack)
Manual of Bodily Health +4 (110,000gp, used)
Manual of Gainful Exercise +4 (110,000gp, used)
Manual of Quickness in Action +5 (137,500gp, used)
------------------------------
Total (760,000gp, 23#)[/sblock]


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 12, 2007)

I think I was skipped....    
Will fully update the crunch later tonight. 

Also, anyone want to build a Artificier to go along with my Warforge? Would be an awsome combo plus Artificiers make excellent 'caster' fill-ins. Especially with there wands.   

-Blood


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## Rathan (Apr 12, 2007)

beleive I've fixed what you've noticed so far Darimaus..... keepum comming if there's more..


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## moritheil (Apr 13, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Alrighty, now time to immerse myself in your characters. I'll post any problems or opinions in a few hours.




I hope this means mine was okay!    I named my periapt of wisdom a collar of wisdom to denote the fact that it won't be subsumed when wildshaped . . . though that is based on the assumption that wild shape works the way I think it does.  It still takes up a neck slot; I just think that a collar is more thematic.

Does anyone have any suggestions for spending my last 100k?  I need to buy two rings, and possibly some items that would work with wild shape.  I can't use armor or shields, so I'm having trouble thinking of anything that doesn't scream "this is the one to nuke" to the enemy the way that ioun stones do.

Also, is anyone going to be a group buffer?  At this point I'm reasonably sure I can handle flanking support for our frontliners.  I'll throw the occasional heal if absolutely needed, though a druid is no substitute for a real cleric.  If we have healing totally covered, let me know and I can try to improve summoning instead.  (LR, I think you built a theurge, but you also said you were going lich, so I don't know if you intend to supply healing or if you're a blaster.)

I'm a little startled that we're going to have a frenzied berserker in the ranks.  If the enemies don't last long enough for him to calm down - yikes!


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## Unkabear (Apr 13, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Unkabear - Ok, for starters, your BAB is 12, not 13. You forgot to add the pixies natural armor to your AC, and I'm not sure where that +2 you tacked on to your reflex save came from. Other than that, looks good.




Thanks for the Catch on BAB, easy to fix.  The +2 for reflex comes from the Rogues vest, and as for the Pixie Natural armor I was not sure if that stacked with the bracers of Natural Armor.  If it does then bonus for me.  

Also I am not sure on how you rule the Greater Truedeath Crystal.  I know that Ghost Touch can only be attached to a melee weapon, but the GTC simply says weapon slot, it does not specify melee or ranged weapons.  If you rule that it could affect the Crossbow then I will add one to that, if not then I will retain what I have.

Edit:character with prospective changes

Grift
[sblock]
*Grift*
*Race*: Pixie
*Level*: (ecl+4, Rogue 16)
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good
*Size*: Small
*Height*: 2 1/2’
*Weight*: 30lbs
*Speed*: 20’ walk 60’ fly good maneuverability
*Type*: Fey

*Str*   10 +0
*Dex *  26 +8
*Con *  16 +3
*Int *   20 +5
*Wis *  20 +5
*Cha *  19 +4

*BAB * +12/+7/+2   Ranged  +20/+15/+10 Grapple +8

*AC * 38 = 10 + 8 armor + 8 dex + 1 small + 5 deflection + 6 natural armor
Damage reduction 10/cold iron,  spell resistance equal to 31
*HP * 103 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=970194 

*Fort* 8 = 5 + 3
*Ref* 20 = 10 + 8 + 2(Rogues Vest)
*Will* 10 = 5 + 5

*Weapons & Damage*
+3 FDP Small Light Crossbow +24/+19/+14 1d6+7 19-20x2 80ft
+3 DPM Small Short Sword +23/+18/+13 1d4+3 19-20x2 (True Death Crystal)
Dagger Thrown +20/+15/+10 1d3 19-20x2
SA 8d6 (1d6 Rogues Vest, 1d6 Deadly Precision = 10d6)


```
[B]Skills[/B]	                    total		ranks		skill mod	misc		synergy
									
Bluff (Cha)	              [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Decipher Script (Int)	      [B]15[/B]	=	10	+	5	+		+
Diplomacy (Cha)	              [B]4[/B]	        =		+	4	+		+
Disable Device (Int)	      [B]24[/B]	=	19	+	5	+		+
Escape Artist (Dex)	      [B]18[/B]	=	10	+	8	+		+
Gather Information (Cha)      [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Hide (Dex)	              [B]33[/B]	=	19	+	8	+	6	+
Intimidate (Cha)	      [B]16[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+	2 Bluff
Listen (Wis)	              [B]26[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	2	+
Move Silently (Dex)	      [B]29[/B]	=	19	+	8	+	2	+
Open Lock (Dex)	              [B]27[/B]	=	19	+	8	+		+
Search (Int)	              [B]33[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	9	+
Sense Motive (Wis)	      [B]26[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	2	+
Sleight of Hand (Dex)	      [B]20[/B]	=	10	+	8	+		+	2 Bluff
Spot (Wis)	              [B]35[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	11	+
Tumble (Dex)	              [B]17[/B]	=	9	+	8	+		+
Use Magic Device (Cha)	      [B]23[/B]	=	19	+	4	+		+
Use Rope (Dex)	              [B]8[/B] 	=		+	8	+		+
			240 Total Skill Points
```

*Magic Items*
Ring of Protection +5 
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 
Bracers of Armor +8 
Rogues Vest 
Gauntlet of Infinite Blades 
Crystal Mask of Insight 
Ring of Regeneration 
Boots of Tracklessness 
Greater Truedeath Crystal 
+3 Deadly Precision Metaline Shortsword 
+3 Force Deadly Precision Light Crossbow 
Everfull Mug 
Everlasting Rations 
Personal Oasis 
Hewards Handy Haversack 
80 cases of crossbow bolts 
Bottle of air 
Wand of shatter 
Wand of Knock 
Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds 
Wand of fireball (5th) 
10 exploding spikes 
Rod of Bodily restoration 
Thorn Pouch 

*Eq*
Dagger
Candle
Chalk 3 pieces
Flint & Steel
Mirror Small Steel
Oil (1-pint flask)(x2)
Sewing Needle
Whetstone
Masterwork Thieves Picks
Ever Burning Torch
Explorers Outfit


*feats * 
Point Blank Shot (lvl1), Precise shot (lvl3), Weapon Focus Light Crossbow (lvl6), Crossbow Sniper (lvl9), Rapid Reload (lvl12), Dead Eye Shot(lvl15), Savvy Rogue (rogue Spec Abil 16), Dodge (racial bonus), Weapon Finesse (racial bonus)

*rogue special abilities*
Improved Evasion, Crippling Strike, Feat, Sneak Attack 8d6, Trap sense +5, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Evasion

*Racial Abilities*
Greater Invisibility (Su) A pixie remains invisible even when it attacks. This ability is constant, but the pixie can suppress or resume it as a free action.

*Spell-Like Abilities*
1/day—lesser confusion (DC 14), dancing lights, detect chaos, detect good, detect evil, detect law, detect thoughts (DC 15), dispel magic, entangle (DC 14), permanent image (DC 19; visual and auditory elements only). Caster level 8th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. 

*History*
Grift is a rogue in employ of the Useeli Court, The council of Fey directed by their gods sent a delegation to No Mans Land to assist in stopping the actions and machinations of the Disciples of Uaedo.  Grift was chosen by the Useeli Court for his ability as a scout and for his skills in infiltrating harder to access locations that may hold information or items of interest to the Court.  Grift tends to be more cautious about his actions and speed to battle.  His cool head has saved the lives of others teamed with him in the past and though he is not delegated as the leader of this team, it would be assumed that he would manage to be a voice of reason to a leader forced to work with mortal enemies in the face of a greater evil.

*Desc*
Grift doesn't look like much and that’s the way he likes it.  He long ago scorned the ways of his people.  He wears clothing more similar to what could be found in the realms of humans much to everyone’s dismay.  If it wasn't for his effectiveness he would have been scorned a long time back.  But some things are willingly looked over for value.  His hair is bright blue and close cropped.  His skin is a deep olive color and his eyes a bright orange.

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968060

Pixie characters possess the following racial traits. 
•	-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma. 
•	Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters. 
•	A pixie’s base land speed is 20 feet. It also has a fly speed of 60 feet (good). 
•	Low-light vision. 
•	Skills: Pixies have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. 
•	Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats. 
•	+1 natural armor bonus. 
•	Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities. 
•	Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels. 
•	Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling. 
•	Favored Class: Sorcerer. 
•	Level adjustment +4

[/sblock]


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## Voidrazor (Apr 13, 2007)

If its not too late, I'd be very interested in participating in a larger self directed game. It seems to me like there would be *more* opportunity for intrigue between characters that way. I haven't settled on a concept yet but I'm leaning towards some sort of Psi-carnum gish.

Roll one total 74
Roll two total 86


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

**still Under Construction*

Allright, Tell me whatcha Think : 
[sblock=Jemal's Duelist Unfinished]	
Feral Human Saint Monk 2, Swashbuckler 3, Thief Acrobat 3, Duelist 9
AL: LG  HT: 5'11" WT: 180 Hair:  Eyes: 
*Base stats : 17 17 16 15 13 11. (Level stat points... lvl 4,8,12 = Int, lvl16,20 = Wis)*
STR: 26 (+8) [15 Base + 6 Enhancement + 4 Race + 1 Inherent]
DEX: 24 (+7) [17 Base + 6 Enhancement - 2 Race + 3 Inherent]
CON: 21 (+5) [13 Base + 4 Enhancement + 4 Race]
INT: 26 (+8) [16 Base + 6 Enhancement - 4 Race + 4 Inherent + 1 Inherent + 3 Lvl]
WIS: 34 (+12) [17 Base + 6 Enhancement + 4 Race + 5 Inherent + 2 Level]
CHA: 15 (+2) [11 Base + 4 Race]

HP: 160 (3d6+2d8+12d10+85Con) *http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=971817*
AC: 73 (10 base + 7 dex + 8 Int + 12 Wis + 12 Insight + 7 Armour + 5 Deflection + 11 Nat Armour + 1 Agile Fighting). *+1 dodge feat*
Saves: FORT: +19(10 base + 5 con + 4 resistance)  REF: +27(13 base + 7 dex + 3 grace + 4 resistance) WILL: +24(8 base + 12 wis + 4 resistance)
Init: +11
Movement : 50'

Bab: 15
Attacks: 
Spiked Chain :  +25/25/20/15,  damage 2d4+22, threat 18-20/X2
Trip Check : +14
Grapple Check : +27

*Defensive Fighting : -4 to attack gives + 12 AC*
*Combat Expertise gives + 1-5 AC for corresponding attack penalty*
FULL DEFENSIVE FIGHTING = -9 Atk, AC 90.

Skills(Total/Ranks):[XX Points] Craft:Weaponsmithing(+/), Performance(+/), Jump(+15/5), Balance(+15/5), Tumble(+32/23), Spot(+35/23), Listen(+37/23), Hide(+30/23), Move Silent(+30/23), 
(per level : monk=4,swash=4,Thief=6,Duelist=4)

Feats: [6]  Dodge, Mobility, Combat Expertise, Exotic Weapon Proficiency:Spiked Chain, Improved Trip, Defensive Throw
Bonus Feats : Improved Grapple, Combat Reflexes(7), Weapon Finesse, Deflect Arrows

Racial Features : 
30' Land Speed, +6 natural Armour, 2 claw attacks (1d6), Improved Grab, Pounce, 2 Rake's (1d8+1/2 str), Rend (2d8+2Xstr), Darkvision 120', Lowlight Vision, Wis to AC as Insight Bonus, Holy Power(+2 DC's), Holy Touch(+1d6 vs evil, +1d8 vs evil undead/outsiders), Spell Like Abilities@will: (Guidance, Resistance, Virtue, Bless), DR 10/Evil, Fast heal 8, ImmuneAcid, Cold, Electricity, Petrification), Fire Resist 10, +4 vs poison, Protective Aura (Double strength Magic Circle &  Lesser Globe of Invulnerability) 20' radius as a free action, Tongues, +1 all saves, +2 vs fear, +1 atk with Thrown weapons, +2 (listen, climb, jump, move silent), +4 hide.

Class Features:
Improved Unarmed Strike, Flurry of Blows, Evasion, AC Bonus (Wis), Grace(+3 Reflex), Insightful Strike(+Int to damage), Improved Reaction (+4 Init), Elaborate Parry(+7 AC when fighting defensively), Canny Defense (Int to ac, max 7), Enhanced Mobility (+4AC vs moement AoO), Precise Strike(+1d6), Acrobatic Charge(over difficult terrain), Fast Acrobatics, Kip-up, Steady Stance, Agile Fighting (+1AC/+2defensive), Slow Fall 20', Defensive Roll 1/day

Languages: Common, *3 more*

Equipment:  760,000 GP : 
BOOKS : Str+1, Dex+3, Int+1, Wis+5(275,000)
+ 2 Sweeping Adamantine GreatSword of Speed (75,320)
Bracers of Armour + 7 (49,000)
Vest of Natural Armour+5/Con+4(74,000)
Ring of Deflection + 5 (50,000)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Boots of Striding + Springing (5,500)
Eyes of the Eagle (2,500)
Belt of Strength+6 (36,000)
Gloves of Dexterity+6 (36,000)
Headband of Int+6 (36,000)
Amulet of Wis+6 (36,000)
Winged Cloak of Resistance+4 (78,000)

4,180 GP left
[/sblock]


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I'm a little startled that we're going to have a frenzied berserker in the ranks.  If the enemies don't last long enough for him to calm down - yikes!




If they do, just everyone stand back and let him vent on me until he makes the will save to calm down.  I'm pretty sure most people in the party need a nat 20 to hit my FLAT-FOOTED TOUCH AC.


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Allright, Tell me whatcha Think :




Wow, that has got to be the most twinked out character I've ever seen.  73 AC?  LOL I guess that's why I never play high level D&D!

Well, this crazy character makes mine completely useless.  Hope you guys have fun.


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> If they do, just everyone stand back and let him vent on me until he makes the will save to calm down.  I'm pretty sure most people in the party need a nat 20 to hit my FLAT-FOOTED TOUCH AC.




I couldn't hit your character with 2 20s.


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## Shayuri (Apr 13, 2007)

A feral saint?

I dunno man. Probably no explicit rules against it, but it seems awfully contradictory to me.

Man. This is a good note though, for aspiring GM's of high level play. 

Template-control, template-control, template-control.


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## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

Looks like we have two tanks then. An untouchable feral saint and one heck of a meatshield in an incarnate.


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## Rathan (Apr 13, 2007)

lord in heaven Jemal..... that has got to be the most cracked out chara I've ever seen.... I thought Sollir was bad.... wow.... heh.... yea.. so I guess healing you won't be an issue heh...


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> lord in heaven Jemal..... that has got to be the most cracked out chara I've ever seen.... I thought Sollir was bad.... wow.... heh.... yea.. so I guess healing you won't be an issue heh...




There's no reason for the rest of us to be there.  Since nothing can hit him, send his guy in and we'll just watch.


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## Unkabear (Apr 13, 2007)

Then there is my humble Pixie.  I am glad that I will be sitting high in the sky raining down death.  I have found that fire support is a good place to be, especially when there is a Frenzied Berserker on the ground.

As for the choice of playtype I do believe that a small group forces cooperation, but the open rp will allow for more character development as people find reasons to not go to war with each other in the light of a greater need.  My vote goes for the open rp.  It would allow for a larger group and chances for rp between the ranks.


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> There's no reason for the rest of us to be there.  Since nothing can hit him, send his guy in and we'll just watch.




Not true.  In case you haven't noticed, I can't find traps, I'm not immune to spells, have no ranged attacks to speak of, and have poor offensive capabilities.  I did this mainly as a "Can't touch this" concept.  *parry parry parry trip smack fast heal parry parry parry*

And, to Shayuri - A Feral Saint isn't by nature contradictory.  The Feral description states that they do sometimes wander into civilization, and some 'adapt', though _most_ find it too confining.  The saint part is what happens when a previously barbaric fighter becomes civilized and becomes a very good person, all the time fighting against the animal urges within (As does everyone).  *Somewhat like Rev Bem from Andromeda, though he has accepted the fact that he has gifts and talents which he can use to save others, instead of rejecting violence completely.*

**SPECIAL NOTE **
I just did the math, and If I dropped the Feral Template, I'd replace it with the 10th level of Duelist, and in the end, I'd loose 4 AC, -1 will, -1 fort, +1 reflex, my attack and init would go up by 1, my damage would stay the same, and my speed would go down 10'.  I'd loose pounce, improved grab, rake, rend, and claws (None of which I really planned on using anyways).  I'd loose 15 hp from con but gain 1d10+4 hp from level, and I'd gain a feat and several skill points.  In the end, it'd be essentially the same, so if anybody REALLY has a problem with the Feral Saint, I'll just be a Saint, though I love the Feral concept (I've never actually gotten to play Feral before)
**NOTE ENDS**

BTW, don't use this as a "reason to keep out templates", b/c I could've done a better AC CORE ONLY.  See, I had a DM once who ran a game Core only, using the reasoning that "If it WASN'T core you'd have an AC of like a hundred!".  SO, I decided to see if I COULD do that core... I made 98 AC with a LVL 10 Monk, LVL 10 Duelist, Halfling, Dex 18, Int 16, Wis 16 (base).  No made-up items are required, even.  Just straight PHB/DMG.  THEN, to top THAT, I beat 120 with a core mage;   THEN, I showed him both of them to prove that his reasoning was flawed (If someone wants to do something, they'll DO it, you can't easily stop them.)  
and then I pulled out the REAL character, b/c I'm not a jerk.
*NOTE for credit where credit is due: Both of those characters were made with my room-mate's help, he added on about 10 AC to the first, then showed me some tricks for the second to push it over 100.*

This character is actually one of the less powerful one's I have in mind.  I decided to stay away from the following concepts "Kill Great Prismatic Wyrm in 1 round", "Level drain everybody to death", "Tarrasque as Familiar", "Epic character before Epic Level", and "Pun-Pun"(J/k on that one, I'd never even imagine using the infinity loophole), 

BTW, I have a very strong suspicion that about 1 in 4 of the badguys will be able to hit me..  since this is a "World vs THEM" campaign, the "THEM" have to be fairly damn powerful!  It's not gonna be "Hey, we're level twenty, lets go clean house."  I see this as a "The world getting introduced to EPIC POWERED CHARACTERS" kinda thing, and planned my character accordingly.

All that having been said, I REALLY don't want other people to quit b/c I'm stealing the spotlight.  If there's a problem with it, I have LOTS of other concepts.


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

Unkabear said:
			
		

> As for the choice of playtype I do believe that a small group forces cooperation, but the open rp will allow for more character development as people find reasons to not go to war with each other in the light of a greater need.  My vote goes for the open rp.  It would allow for a larger group and chances for rp between the ranks.




Also, it means the DM doesn't have to worry about who to dissapoint.


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## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

HP Rolls=74


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

New Note RE: Characters being pointless.

I try not to step on toes, but I like making my characters cool and ass-kicking.
I'd rather play Batman than robin, Superman than Lois Lane, Wolverine than Cyclops, Hercules than.. um.. some other ancient dude.  And yes, there's a reason my examples are mostly super heroes.  It Fits.  Really high level characters can fall a thousand feet, stand up, and then face off against a hundred foes.. That's not normal, that's SUPER, that's INCREDIBLE, that's LEGENDARY.  That's why I play, so that I can forget how normal and unremarkable I am, and pretend to be someone who CAN make a difference.

that being said, I know what it's like to have people play a character who makes you feel useless.. Believe it or not, In most of the RL gaming groups I've been in, I'm usually the most underpowered character.  But the only time it matters is if somebody's doing YOUR job better than you.

Who cares how high someone else's AC is unless thats what YOUR character is based on doing?  So the Barbarian hits for 100 damage a shot on his Greataxe.. shouldn't matter to you unless you're a Greatsword fighter.  The dervish can hit 12 times a round, so what, you're a mage!

My point is, I try making characters around a concept that nobody else is basing their character off so that nobody's toes get stepped on (Mine OR Yours), which is why I chose the defense guy, so to anyone who's thinking of quiting b/c someone elses character makes their character pointless, ask yourself this... does it really?  Can't your character do ANYTHING better than the other one?


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 13, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> If they do, just everyone stand back and let him vent on me until he makes the will save to calm down.  I'm pretty sure most people in the party need a nat 20 to hit my FLAT-FOOTED TOUCH AC.




He has a base +24 will save. I believe he will be able to make the DC 20 will save to come out of Frenzy.


-Blood


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> He has a base +24 will save. I believe he will be able to make the DC 20 will save to come out of Frenzy.
> -Blood




A Berserker with a +24 Will save and they call ME twinky?  My wis is 34 and i have a not-bad base will, and that's MY will save. 

Not bad, btw.. How'd you do it?


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 13, 2007)

Steadfast Determination out of the PHPII. Allows you to use your CON modifier instead of your WIS for determining will saves. 

-Blood


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

Nice, but I noticed also a +7 misc mod.. was just curious, as I didn't see Iron will or anythin.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 13, 2007)

Yea I need to include his gear purchases. The +7 is from +5 resistance vest & +2 will save from rage. 

Also if people are noticing twinkage then I am surprised those careful eyes glanced over my build so easliy. Just for starters there is:

Imunities: Critical Hits, All mind affects and abilities (good & bad), Non-leathal Damage, death & necormancy effects, ability drain & damage, poison, sleep effects, paralysis, disease, nausea, fatigue, exhaustion, sickened, healing subschool, Proof Against Transmutation, and a regeneration ring keeps him coming back for more. 

Without gear or buffs:
Reach: 10ft
HP: 359 (Rage:399) 
Max attack: +46 (w/ buffs I believe it can hit 73 w/o a nat 20)
Max # of attacks: 5
Max damage w/o PA: 12d6+34 (70 average)
Noraml PA ratio: -1/+4 (Best: -1/+5)

-Blood


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## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

How did you become large sized? Warforged are medium sized and WJ's and FB's don't give a size increase.


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## Shayuri (Apr 13, 2007)

Wow. Guess I kinda stuck my hand in a hornet's nest there. 

I'll preface this by saying my earlier comment(s) were meant to be tongue in cheek. 

This does underscore one occasional problem with high level play though. You have people who love tweaking characters and doing the numbers to precisely take exactly -this- many levels of -that- to get -this- ability which when combined with -that- ability will...etc etc.

And you have people that just want to play a simple 20th level monk. Or wizard. And while you CAN tweak and optimize those characters, not everyone wants to...or can. So you do get wildly differing power levels between PC's.

Sometimes that's a problem, sometimes less so. Like Jemal was saying, if everyone has their own thing going, that's usually fine. But D&D is primarily a game about combat, so it's not really fair to compare noncombat abilities (like trapfinding) to combat abilities (like being unhittable, or doing astronomical levels of damage). No one wants to be "trapboy." 

I can't blame Jemal or anyone else for optimizing and such. I do it myself, and while I do it to a lesser extent, that lesser extent isn't because I'm somehow truer to the game or whatever. It's because I don't have the patience to cobble as many of those rules together. 

I guess it's only really a problem when it underscores differences in the kind of game people want. Jemal likes high power, "fantasy superhero" games. Someone else might prefer a more...demure approach. And while -any- level 20 character is capable of amazing feats, not all level 20 characters are created equally.

I was proud not long ago for making a ninja/shadowdancer that had AC in the mid 40's, and did 30ish damage per hit using Sudden Strike.

Sigh. Back to the drawing board.


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## Voidrazor (Apr 13, 2007)

Darimaus - I hate to ask for something outside the allowed books when its as wide as all WotC hardcovers, but by any chance would you allow an Erudite?


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## Rathan (Apr 13, 2007)

I have the the problem of being lost in my IRC DnD game for over three years that doesn't have or allow PrC's... so... with this in mind I'm not used to PrC's nor do I have the splat books or anything to that nature to actually USE them.... I got what the SRD has..... and what my core book have.. which is the same durned thing heh... so as you can see by my character... it's pretty simple.. and that's kinda how I like it heh


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## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

The erudite is in the CompPsi you know


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## Voidrazor (Apr 13, 2007)

I didn't know. Wow! Thanks Avalon.


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Wow. Guess I kinda stuck my hand in a hornet's nest there.
> 
> I'll preface this by saying my earlier comment(s) were meant to be tongue in cheek.
> 
> ...




Well, my character concept is completely shot.  Since I don't min/max my character into a huge pile of stats and try to make one that has a personality, I can't imagine fitting in with twink-alots.  He can't do ANYTHING that either the broken warforged or the twinked feral saint swashbuckler half-vampire troll quarter celestial (add three more templates here) characters don't do a heckuva lot better.

Here's the problem with a group of mixed min/maxers and people that try to play real characters.  The people who try to play real characters always get screwed.  See, the DM is going to have to come up with creatures that can hit twink boy, and those guys will hit my character EVERY SINGLE TIME.  That doesn't give me a fighting chance.

Thus, the real problem with high level D&D.  When you throw open the doors to _everything_, you are really making it hard for those of us who a) don't own every single book and b) want to create a concept character rather than a twink.



> I was proud not long ago for making a ninja/shadowdancer that had AC in the mid 40's, and did 30ish damage per hit using Sudden Strike.
> 
> Sigh. Back to the drawing board.




Unfortunately, that character and mine would be laughed out of this game.  I don't think I have the time or patience to compete with the twinks of the world.  I just want to play a game and try to make something of it.  The constant oneupsmanship is very very tired.


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> New Note RE: Characters being pointless.
> 
> I try not to step on toes, but I like making my characters cool and ass-kicking.
> I'd rather play Batman than robin, Superman than Lois Lane, Wolverine than Cyclops, Hercules than.. um.. some other ancient dude.  And yes, there's a reason my examples are mostly super heroes.  It Fits.  Really high level characters can fall a thousand feet, stand up, and then face off against a hundred foes.. That's not normal, that's SUPER, that's INCREDIBLE, that's LEGENDARY.  That's why I play, so that I can forget how normal and unremarkable I am, and pretend to be someone who CAN make a difference.
> ...




You're completely missing the point, I'm afraid.  If one person in the group is a min/maxer, they will _always_ not only steal the show, but make it harder for everyone else to be effective in what they do.  

If the bad guy needs a +57 attack bonus to even have a chance to hit you, what happens when he full attacks my guy with a much more reasonable 46 AC?  Gets hit _every time_.  If the DM goes the other way, and makes creatures that are average for lvl 20, they _can't do a damned thing_ to your character.  Is the DM going to let you go around not getting challenged?  Of course not.  So he is forced to go with the more powerful foes, and hence the rest of us get to pay for it.


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## Darimaus (Apr 13, 2007)

Sorry to all who had their characters missed on my overview (especially yours Bloodweaver1, I skipped over yours by mistake) theres only so much number crunching one can do in a day (especially in his precious few hours before work  ) I shall continue with the character crunching tommorow, same bat time, same bat channel. Keep em coming guys.

Questions wil be answered at the same time, I don't feel like sifting around the twinking/not twinking arguments right now either 

I will say this though, the advantage to a larger, open game setting is that PCs don't have to compare themselves to each other or feel left out and useless. Two fighters don't have to hang around with each other, so they don't have to be sharing an overlapping role.


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## Voidrazor (Apr 13, 2007)

Here's my character so far. I'm still in the process of doing skills, powers & equipment. So those thing won't add up yet but most of the game balance effecting stuff should already be listed.

*Lowryllyth*

```
Female  Lawful Evil Elan Totemist 2 / Erudite 6 / Crinti Shadow Marauder 5 / Slayer 7

Strength     20  (+5)   13 base +6 Enchantment +1 Level
Dexterity    17  (+3)  11 base +6 Enchantment
Constitution 22  (+6)  16 base +6 Enchantment
Intelligence 32  (+11) 17 base +6 Enchantment +5 Inherent +4 levels
Wisdom       20  (+5)  14 base +6 Enchantment
Charisma     19  (+4)   15 base -2 Racial +6 Enchantment

Size: Medium
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 102 lb
Skin: Black
Eyes: Blue
Hair: White
Age: 450 years

HP: [url=http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=973751]192[/url]
AC: 33 (10 base +3 Dex +8 Armor +5 Deflection +6 Monk +1 Insight) 25 Touch 30 Flat-footed
Initiative: +5
BAB: +16
PP: 192 
XP: 

Fort 25 (8 base +6 Con +5 resistance +1 Ioun Stone +1 Luckstone +4 Racial*)
Ref 25 (11 base +3 Dex +5 resistance +1 Ioun Stone +1 Luckstone +4 Racial*)
Will 27 (11 base +5 Wis +5 resistance +1 Ioun Stone +1 Luckstone +4 Racial*)
* Racial bonus costs 1pp, always spent

Feats
1st Track
3rd Mounted Combat, Overchannel (Bonus)
6th Stealthy
8th Midnight Augmentation (Bonus)
9th Practiced Manifester
12th Elan Resilience
15th Leadership
18th Metamorphic Transfer 

Skill Points 183
Skill Name	         Ability   Total	Mod	Ranks	Misc.
Bluff                     Cha      19 =        +4       +15
Concentration	          Con	   29 = 	+6	+23	
Gather Information	  Cha	    7 = 	+4	+3	+2 [know local] 
Handle Animal             Cha        8 =        +4        +4
Hide                      Dex       19 =        +3        +16  (8 cc)
Knowledge (arcana)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (architecture)  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (dungeoneering) Int	   15 = 	+11	+4	
Knowledge (geography)	  Int	   12 = 	+11     +1	
Knowledge (history)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (local)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (nature)	  Int	   16 = 	+11	+5	
Knowledge (nobility)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (psionics)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1
Knowledge (religion)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Listen	                  Wis	   28 = 	+5	+23	
Move Silently             Dex     19 =       +3       +16 (8 cc)
Ride                      Dex     11 =       +3       +8
Spot	                  Wis	   28 = 	+5	+23	
Psicraft	          Int	   26 = 	+11	+15
Skill Tricks: Clarity of Vision, Collector of Stories


Repertoire
1st Offensive Prescience, Call to Mind, Force Screen, Defensive Precognition, Offensive Precognition, Psionic Grease, Synchronicity (Comp Psi p.103), Claws of the Beast*, Astral Construct*, Metaphysical Claw*, Expansion*, Adrenalin Boost* (Comp Psi p.78)
2nd Hustle*, Energy Stun, Forced Sense Link, Psionic Tongues, Psychoportive Shelter (Comp Psi p.97), 
3rd Dispel Psionics, Energy Burst, Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Force, Greater Concealing Amorpha*, Claws of the Vampire*, Dimension Slide*
4th Correspond, Psionic Dimension Door, Psychic Reformation, Metamorphosis*, Psionic Open Chakra (Incarnum p.107), Schism*, Tower of Iron Will*, Psionic Dominate*
5th Anticipitory Strike (Comp Psi p.78), Power Resistance, Psionic Plane Shift, Psionic True Seeing, Second Chance*, Mind Probe*
6th Inconstant Location (Comp Psi p.91), Mind Over Energy (Comp Psi p.93), Psionic Contingency, Temporal Acceleration

Equipment 
Belt of Magnificence 200k
Dorje of Claws of the Vampire 9th ML 20,250
Dorje of Expansion 6th ML 4,500
Dorje of Inconstant Location 49,500
Hat of Disguise 1,800
+5 Tome of Clear Though 137,500
Boots of Speed 12k
Cloak of Resistance +5 25k
Bracers of Armor +8 64k
Monk's Vest 19,500 (Monks belt)
Ring of Deflection +5 50k
Ring of Invisibility 20k
Rod of Absorption 50k
Cautious Warrior Psicrown 32,063
Luckstone 20k
Pale Green Ioun Stone 30k

Used Power Stones 5,750
```


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 13, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Well, my character concept is completely shot.  Since I don't min/max my character into a huge pile of stats and try to make one that has a personality, I can't imagine fitting in with twink-alots.  He can't do ANYTHING that either the broken warforged or the twinked feral saint swashbuckler half-vampire troll quarter celestial (add three more templates here) characters don't do a heckuva lot better.




I would just like to note that, for the first time in the existence of the book, book of 9 Swords wasn't included on the _omfg itz so twinkz_ listing.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 13, 2007)

Fully updated the crunch. Obsidian should be good to go. 

If the consensus is that this build is too much or if Darimaus drops the hammer, I have no problem with generating something else. 







			
				Avalon® said:
			
		

> How did you become large sized? Warforged are medium sized and WJ's and FB's don't give a size increase.



 Paid a Psion to cast permenant Expansion on him plus he is wearing Strongarm Bracers which gives him the Powerful Build feature. 


-Blood


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 13, 2007)

zeb.hillard said:
			
		

> I would just like to note that, for the first time in the existence of the book, book of 9 Swords wasn't included on the _omfg itz so twinkz_ listing.



True, but that is probably because no one really knows what Bo9S can do at high levels. I would imagine that your build's damage output is very close to mine.

-Blood


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 13, 2007)

I went kind of light on it.  No weapon that gives a Swift True Strike 1/day or anything to help out.  But, two full attacks in a round...the option to hit once for +100 damage, four times normal damage, or 2d6 Con are still there.

I made him more to help others with White Raven tactics (Though your character would probably benefit GREATLY with the charging Maneuvers I picked...+50 damage on a charge you can take when it isn't your turn is fairly nice) and to soften up enemies so others can finish them off be it through weakening their saves or stunning them without a save chance.  No death or 20d6 on a made save or anything.


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## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Paid a Psion to cast permenant Expansion on him plus he is wearing Strongarm Bracers which gives him the Powerful Build feature.
> 
> 
> -Blood




Where are Strongarm Bracers from?


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## Brother Allard (Apr 13, 2007)

I'd be interested.  For the sake of brevity, I'll only link to the roll that actually worked: 11, 13, 12, 17, 18, 11.  There are obviously there for any who are sufficiently interested.

I'll have to see what I can do with that and come back with a concept later today.


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## Shayuri (Apr 13, 2007)

Doh. I didn't intend to add to the recrimination. I'd like to think that the mechanics of a character (the twink) and the concept of a character are two separate things.

There's no reason a massively twinked character can't have a cool story and persona. Just like I've seen lots of HORRIBLY designed characters who are played woodenly and uninterestingly.

Dari could be onto something, I think...if this game is run in such a way that the PC's aren't leveraged into a single party, then we can naturally find the group that fits us best. Or, if we're sufficiently twinked, just go it alone. 

I just hope that we can view this as firstly, a game...and not deserving of bitterness or bile. And secondly...with some humor. Nothing dissolves bad feelings faster than a willingness to laugh, even if the situation seems irritating. Lets try to keep the discussion on a bit of a lighter note, I'd ask. No one's out to hurt feelings here.


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## Rino (Apr 13, 2007)

I would like to take a shot at a character here

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=973071
this is the role, dropped 1 of the 2 tens


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 13, 2007)

I've always wanted to try an epic game, if there's any room. I'm thinking Warlock, or Paladin. On another note, what are you feelinings on having a Dragon as a PC? or at least as maybe a mount for a paladin?(draconomicon)

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?a=show&id=973187

These are the only stats i got above 80, but I have the rest if you wanted to see them


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 13, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Where are Strongarm Bracers from?



Magic Item Compendium and the items are noted as such in the build. 

-Blood


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## Kafkonia (Apr 13, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Steadfast Determination out of the PHPII. Allows you to use your CON modifier instead of your WIS for determining will saves.
> 
> -Blood




Does it not also stop you from auto-failing on a 1?

Which would mean that there's no chance of failling that save...


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Doh. I didn't intend to add to the recrimination. I'd like to think that the mechanics of a character (the twink) and the concept of a character are two separate things.
> 
> There's no reason a massively twinked character can't have a cool story and persona. Just like I've seen lots of HORRIBLY designed characters who are played woodenly and uninterestingly.
> 
> ...




I don't think anyone's feelings are hurt or anything.  It's just reality that some characters are going to pale in comparison to others.  It's a reality of the D&D system.  There's no way to avoid it, because the system is horribly imbalanced.  That's where the DM is supposed to step in and right things for his game.  Not all of these options are meant to be used at the same time in the same game.  I think throwing everything open is a huge mistake.

That said, if there is a point in playing this game at all, and I would like to try, if I'm going to put in the time and effort to make a lvl 20 character, I'm not going to have him overshadowed by someone who wants to play a crazy twink.  So if the DM expects that we don't have to be together, then I guess we won't be.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 13, 2007)

I dunno, I'd rather have twinked out companions, because they can beat people up while I save my hide. If I was in competition with them that'd be different, but this is a cooperative game, not a competitive one (most of the time.)

Which isn't to say that someone should play if they don't feel they'll have a good time. Games are supposed to be fun, after all.

But maybe I should spend less time theorizing and more time actually making a character...


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Here's the problem with a group of mixed min/maxers and people that try to play real characters.  The people who try to play real characters always get screwed.  See, the DM is going to have to come up with creatures that can hit twink boy, and those guys will hit my character EVERY SINGLE TIME.  That doesn't give me a fighting chance.




DON'T YOU DARE SAY that b/c I like being powerful I'm not playing a "REAL" f-ing character.  Get off your moral god-damn high horse.  What do you know about me or my 'Character concept'?  Abso-friggign-lutely nothing, that's what, and you make it quite obvious.




> I don't think anyone's feelings are hurt or anything.



Guess Again.  How can you say crap like THIS :


> If one person in the group is a min/maxer, they will always not only steal the show, but make it harder for everyone else to be effective in what they do.





> Well, my character concept is completely shot.  Since I don't min/max my character into a huge pile of stats and try to make one that has a personality, I can't imagine fitting in with twink-alots.  He can't do ANYTHING that either the broken warforged or the twinked feral saint swashbuckler half-vampire troll quarter celestial (add three more templates here) characters don't do a heckuva lot better.





> Unfortunately, that character and mine would be laughed out of this game. I don't think I have the time or patience to compete with the twinks of the world. I just want to play a game and try to make something of it. The constant oneupsmanship is very very tired.




and not expect hard feelings?  Any first year psych student would think you're TRYING to provoke a fight.  Congrats you succeeded.  (And just as a side note, I didn't WANT to add three more templates there, you pompous prick, I'm actually creating a character, not trying to piss people off.)

I'm so angry right now that my hands are literally shaking.  My entire gaming life I've had to deal with "people" like you saying that you're inherently better than me b/c your character isn't a "HORRIBLE TWINK".  Because you care more about your characters background and personality than his stats.  
I COULD point out that I put just as much time into my character's personality as I do into his stats.  
I COULD point out all the downsides, all the things my character can't do.  
I COULD point out that any DM worth his salt doesn't design encounters against a SINGLE INDIVIDUAL in a group.
I COULD point out that I offered to change the Freaking character.
I COULD point out that I quoted exactly what would be lost by dropping the "Feral" template, and it's not much.    
I COULD point out that I have the same chance of hitting most things that they have of hitting me... So in otherwords, EVERYTHING we face at this level is "unhittable" to me if anybody can miss it at all.  

Speaking of... [sblock=If it can hit you it can't miss us] 
Bull.  If any of the main fighters can MISS it, then I can't HIT it.  So by your logic, anybody with a high attack bonus is a horrible twink compared to me.  Zeb.Hillard and Bloodweaver are both 'HORRIBLE TWINK's' by your definition, b/c if they can MISS something, none of the rest of us can HIT it.  So maybe *I* should quit, because they make MY character useless by your messed up logic.

WHY do people think that the DM is going to base his opponents stats around the most powerful PC's?  "OK, the highest attack bonus is +30 so the boss has an AC 41.  The highest AC is 60 so the boss has an attack bonus of +55.  The most HP is 400, so the boss does 100 damage a shot.  The best spellcaster has + 26 to overcome SR, so the boss has SR 40."  No good DM does that.  If they do they're screwing over all the players, INCLUDING THE PLAYERS WHO PUT TIME INTO GETTING THEIR HIGH NUMBERS.  If you actually believe the DM's gonna make characters like that, then stats don't matter at ALL.  In fact, everybody should make the LOWEST numbers they can, and play lvl 1 fighters/wizards, so that the badguy will be correspondingly weak and then we'll sick a summoned badger on him.

IF you TRULEY believe the DM's gonna make opponents like that, then it doesn't matter how horribly twinked the characters are, b/c the DM's gonna just say "mine's better".  
I've actually gamed under DM's like that.  They DON'T keep groups.

What's the freaking point of weapon focus if all it means is that you opponents AC goes up by one? Weapon Spec means your opponent gains an additional 50 HP.  Learning Maximized Fireball means your opponent gains Fire Resist 30.  Those are tools of a DM that doesn't know what the hell he's doing, and I think Darimaus DOES know what he's doing.[/sblock]
^side rant

I COULD point out a lot of things!

Instead, I'm GOING to point out that if me having an AC of 70 makes it harder for you to be a Psion, then maybe you need to learn how to play the freaking game, cuz I fail to see how that's related in the SLIGHTEST.  
I don't know much about psionics except that I keep hearing that they're more powerful than normal magic.. So re: mages....  If we face an opponent who can't fly, a third level spell does MORE than my uber-AC.  It makes you completely unhittable, b/c they can't reach you, instead of mostly (need a nat 20) unhittable like me. HELL, a ROPE TRICK spell beats anybody who can't dispel it or cast spells across planes!  Don't get me started on Polymorphing or Teleporting.  All things a TENTH LEVEL HUMAN SORCEROR can do.  WOW, 10 levels in Sorceror?  What a horrendous twink!



> I just hope that we can view this as firstly, a game...and not deserving of bitterness or bile. And secondly...with some humor. Nothing dissolves bad feelings faster than a willingness to laugh, even if the situation seems irritating. Lets try to keep the discussion on a bit of a lighter note, I'd ask. No one's out to hurt feelings here.



Sorry, Shayuri, I respect you and all but It's a bit late for that.  Insight needs to start thinking before he posts.  Calling someone a horrible twink, blaming them for your bad experiences, and all the other crap is not something you do for a laugh.  

I KNOW I went a bit overboard with the ranting in this post, but I'm sick of this, I'm sick of people telling me i'm not a real gamer b/c I create better characters than them.  And I don't mean better in every way either, as anybody who actually reads my posts would know.  If you make a character who's exceptional at ANYTHING he's going to be singled out by all the jealous people who can't/won't do the same thing.

*BTW, Shayuri - Your shadowdancer with an AC in the mid 40's would have the same chance of hitting me as I have of hitting him(We both need nat 20's).  And you deal more damage.  How's that bad?*



> I can't blame Jemal or anyone else for optimizing and such. I do it myself, and while I do it to a lesser extent, that lesser extent isn't because I'm somehow truer to the game or whatever. It's because I don't have the patience to cobble as many of those rules together.




Just for the record, my character requries 3 levels of complete adventurer, 3 levels and 1 feat of complete warrior, and 1 template(I already showed that dropping the feral causes no difference, leaving Saint).  All the items are Core, over half of the class levels are core, and 6 out of 7 feats are core.  The main concept (Getting an ac over 70) took me and a room mate less than half an hour.  Then It was just minor number tweaks to get it to look like i wanted it to look, and save some money so I could get my wings of flying.  This isn't b/c I have more books, or more patience, just that I had a concept of a guy who parries everything, and I had the desire and the will to act on that concept, and I made him.



Finally : I'm not apologizing for anything I said, b/c it's true.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

Darimaus, would you allow an Incarnate Weapon soulmeld stacking with a regular weapon?


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## Avalon® (Apr 13, 2007)

Jemal, how can you be a monk while CG? Is that ex-monk?


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## Shayuri (Apr 13, 2007)

*BTW, Shayuri - Your shadowdancer with an AC in the mid 40's would have the same chance of hitting me as I have of hitting him(We both need nat 20's). And you deal more damage. How's that bad?*

-- I meant it as sort of a joke. Hence the  at the end. I'm not nearly as sensitive as I sometimes accidentally seem. 

Just to clarify my own position, since I've sort of argued both sides now, I haven't got a problem with anything so far. For the game as Dari has set it up, I think it should work out. 

I most certainly think that it's premature to cry wolf. Lets actually play a bit before we set the thread aflame.


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## Jemal (Apr 13, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Jemal, how can you be a monk while CG? Is that ex-monk?




actually that's a Typo, he's supposed to be LG


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## Brother Allard (Apr 13, 2007)

Alright, I didn't reroll 1s.  So let's try this again:

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=973650

4d6 -> [6,6,6,5] = (23)
4d6 -> [1,3,2,4] = (10) -- reroll 1
4d6 -> [1,1,2,6] = (10) -- reroll 1x2
4d6 -> [4,5,6,6] = (21)
4d6 -> [2,1,3,1] = (7)  -- reroll 1x2
4d6 -> [3,3,3,2] = (11) 
4d6 -> [6,1,4,3] = (14) -- reroll 1


Rerolls: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=973662

1d6 -> [4] = (4)
1d6 -> [2] = (2)
1d6 -> [4] = (4)
1d6 -> [2] = (2)
1d6 -> [4] = (4)
1d6 -> [6] = (6)

Applying those rolls in order, leaves:

4d6 -> [6,6,6,5] = (23) -> 18
4d6 -> [4,3,2,4] = (10) -- reroll 1 (4) -> 11
4d6 -> [2,4,2,6] = (10) -- reroll 1x2 (2 & 4) -> 12
4d6 -> [4,5,6,6] = (21) -> 17
4d6 -> [2,2,3,4] = (7)  -- reroll 1x2 (2 & 4) -> 9
4d6 -> [3,3,3,2] = (11) -> 9 [dropped]
4d6 -> [6,6,4,3] = (14) -- reroll 1 (6) ->16

Total: 83

I didn't really do myself any favors there...  proving, once again, that invisible castle hates me.


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## Voidrazor (Apr 13, 2007)

Insight - I would prefer it if you used the term 'optimize' rather than 'twink'. I consider myself a pretty good roleplayer but my characters tend to be rather powerful. I don't like to step on other players toes, though. So even if I don't hold back on the build, I'll often take steps in game to make sure other characters get a chance to shine.

Lets face it, at 20th level balance is out the window. Core access to shapechange gives wizards melee abilities comparable to optimized fighters. But why get close when wizards have much better things to do? 

That said, I'd be happy to offer you, or anybody else who's interested optimization advice.


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 13, 2007)

What's the starting wealth for 20th? My books are at home.


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## Darimaus (Apr 13, 2007)

OK, this is where I draw the line. I don't want to see another post on this same argument clogging up this thread. If you want to spoiler it, go nuts. But seriously, no more "hes twinking" "no I'm not" "yes you are". This has absolutely NOTHING to do with what I'm doing here, so please, Knock It Off.   

phew, that being said, its time from me to complete some Q+A. First and foremost, I've decided last night that I would really appreciate one little change in the way you guys are posting your characters. From now on, every spell and magic item on your character sheet needs to come with the book it was from, as well as the applicable page number.

Kafkonia - I believe its 760,000gp

Avalon® - No, because they are both Enhancement bonuses. Not that it's much of an issue though ,since I'm pretty sure you can get yourself a +6 Incarnate Weapon at this stage. 

Necro_Kinder - If its in the rules (which I believe Draconomicon's got your back there) its acceptable. Looking foreward to you're build.

Rino - Also looking foreward to you're build.

Brother Allard - Also also looking forward to you're build   

I'm due for dinner at my parents place in a few, so the number crunching I've done so far won't get posted until I return tonight. Don't work though, so it'll be up sooner than later.


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 13, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> phew, that being said, its time from me to complete some Q+A. First and foremost, I've decided last night that I would really appreciate one little change in the way you guys are posting your characters. From now on, every spell and magic item on your character sheet needs to come with the book it was from, as well as the applicable page number.




I'm fairly sure all of Salimesh's equipment is in the SRD, though I may be overlooking something (But I doubt it).


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## Umbran (Apr 13, 2007)

Folks, please let me remind you that the #1 Rule around here is, "Keep it civil".  Please try to avoid insulting other players or styles.  If you feel you've been insulted, please don't respond in anger.  If you can't be nice, just walk away from the keyboard for a while.

If you find a post problematic, please report it - there's a little exclamation point icon at the bottom of each post for the purpose.  

And, as always, if you have a question about what is appropriate, or other moderation concerns, please feel free to e-mail one of us to discuss it.  Our addresses are available in a post stickied to the top of the Meta Forum


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## Kafkonia (Apr 13, 2007)

I'm leaning towards a Grey Elf Wizard 5/Archivist 5/Mystic Theurge 10 right now, although a Mr. "Critical Hit or Bust" is always tempting.


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## Insight (Apr 13, 2007)

I want to apologize to anyone who believes I have in any way offended them, as that was certainly not my intention.  I guess my way of airing concerns may have been construed as a personal attack, and it was not meant to be as such.

I've been around the block enough to know that a game just isn't worth all of this headache, regardless of the source of it.  Please accept my sincere apology; I won't be bringing up this subject in the future.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 13, 2007)

Okay, I feel like I've overlooked the answer to this, but I can't find it...

Are we to add in the 1/4 level stat increases, or are they factored into the stat rolling you had us do?


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## moritheil (Apr 14, 2007)

Darimaus, having DMed 14-person parties before, let me just say that I appreciate how time-consuming build checking is.  I've tried to explicitly state where all my bonuses are coming from.  The only question I have is:

- Do you rule that a ninja's ki power: invisible lasts for one full round when used?  (Every DM I have ever had has ruled this way due to the wording, but I just want to be clear.)

[I found the updated rules text: Druid wild shape works off alternate form now.  I was also reminded of how shapechange works, courtesy of Jemal.]


760,000gp is the official recommended wealth level.  I checked that number before putting it on my sheet the other day.  Does anyone have the XP we are starting with?  I know it's halfway to 21, but has anyone done the math?  [Edit: Thanks, Jemal!]

[sblock=character]CHARACTER NAME : Daidoji Ichiru
RACE (ECL) : Human (+0)
CLASS (LEVEL) : Ninja 2/Druid 7/Daggerspell Shaper 9/Divine Oracle 2
... NET LEVEL : 20
ALIGNMENT : N
SIZE : Medium
SPEED : 30 ft
TYPE : Humanoid (Human)

Trained from youth to be an assassin, Ichiru was rescued by a kind hermit following a failed mission.  From him he learned the virtues of nature.  Now he uses his skills to ensure that none despoil the wilds.  Having received dire omens of a threat that imperils the world, he has journeyed to the isle to stop it.

Books used: SRD, PHB, PHB II, C. Adv, C. Div, PGF, C. War, Eb., Und, MM2, BoED, BoVD

EXPERIENCE : xp
CASH : 760k gp

ABILITY SCORES  15 10 14 16 16 17
Str 16 (+3) (10/base 6/enh)
Dex 20 (+5) (15/base 5/inh)
Con 22 (+6) (16/base 6/enh)
Int 16 (+3) (16/base) 
Wis 33 (+11) (17/base 5/bon 5/inh 6/enh)
Cha 14 (+2) (14/base)

SAVES
FORT +13 (5/dru 3/ds 6/con)
REF +16 (3/nin 2/dru 6/ds 5/dex) Evasion
WILL +27 (5/dru 6/ds 3/divo 11/wis 2/ki)

Legendary Tiger:  Str 38, Dex 23, Con 30, Int 16, Wis 33, Cha 14, (large), nat armor 10, +8 hide/ms (16 in grass)
w/ Growth:  Str 46, Dex 21, Con 34, Int 16, Wis 33, Cha 14, (huge), DR 10/magic, +4 resist, 10' reach

Legendary Tiger Form
FORT +18 (5/dru 3/ds 10/con)
REF +17 (3/nin 2/dru 6/ds 6/dex) Evasion
WILL +27 (5/dru 6/ds 3/divo 11/wis 2/ki)

w/ Growth
FORT +24 (5/dru 3/ds 12/con 4/res)
REF +20 (3/nin 2/dru 6/ds 5/dex 4/res) Evasion
WILL +31 (5/dru 6/ds 3/divo 11/wis 2/ki 4/res)

HIT POINTS : 13d6 + 7d8 +120 = to be rolled
ARMOR CLASS
Standard : 34 (10/base 5/dex 11/wis 8/force armor) 
Touch : 26 (10/base 5/dex 11/wis) 31 vs. incorp.
Flat-Foot : 29 (10/base 11/wis 8/force armor) 


Legendary Tiger Form
Standard : 44 (10/base 6/dex 11/wis 8/force armor 10/nat -1/size) 
Touch : 26 (10/base 6/dex 11/wis -1/size)
Flat-Foot : 38 (10/base 11/wis 8/force armor 10/nat -1/size) 

INITIATIVE : +5 (5/dex)
BASE ATTACK : +13 
RANGED : +18 (5/dex)
MELEE : +17 (3/str 1/enh)  Dire Bear form: +31 (17/str 1/enh)

WEAPONS                                          [DC 24 poison stored]
+1 sure striking spellstoring spellblade magebane dagger [41002 gp; adamantium, overcomes align DR, redirect disintegrate]
+1 paralyzing spellblade magebane dagger      [41002 gp; adamantium, will DC 17 or held; redirect greater dispel magic]

Magebane adds +2 to hit and +2d6 damage vs. arcane or Sp.
When wildshaped the daggers become claws, but the bonuses and properties still apply.


LANGUAGES
Auran, Common, Druidic, Sylvan, Terran

RACIAL TRAITS
1 free feat, 1 extra skill point/level.

CLASS FEATURES
Ninja: AC bonus, 1d6 SA, ki power invisible (12/day), +2 will, trapfinding
Druid: Wild shape 3/day, Woodland stride, trackless step, wild empathy, animal companion, +2 to know (nat), survival
Daggerspell Shaper: Daggercast, move action wild shape, retain bonuses from gear (daggers, +str/con/dex), +3d6 SA
  Wild shape +2/day; large and tiny.
Divine Oracle: Oracle Domain (+2 to Divination CL), +1 to Divination DC.  Trap sense +1 Ac, +1 saves.
  Prescient Sense (evasion in armor).

Casts: 7 druid + 8 shaper +2 oracle = as 17th druid (19 for divinations)
Wild shape: 5/day, 16 hrs, large/tiny.
Sneak attack: +4d6.
Wild empathy: 7/dip +2/ha +7/dru = +16.

FEATS
Cha 1 . Weapon Focus (dagger)
Cha 1 . Silent Spell
Cha 3 . TWF
Cha 6 . Natural Spell
Cha 9 . Savage Grapple: Add SA to grapple.
Cha12 . Still Spell
Cha15 . Skill Focus: Know (religion)
Cha18 . PGF Innate spell: Heal (lose 1 7th slot; gain Heal 3/day (sp).)
---------------[ Epic Threshold! ]---------------
Cha21 .
Cha24 .

SKILLS (5+9)*(6+4) +7*(4+4) +2*(2+4) = 140 +56 +12 = 208
There is considerable room to move levels around in this build.

Bluff              +7 (5 ranks 2 cha) +2 to diplomacy, sleight, intimidate
Concentration     +25 (23 ranks 6 con)
Diplomacy          +7 (1 ranks 2 cha 2/bluff 2/sm)
Handle Animal      +7 (5 ranks 2 cha)  +2 to ride, wild empathy
Heal              +12 (1 ranks 11 wis)
Know (Arcana)      +8 (5 ranks 3 int) +2 to ka
Know (Nature)     +28 (23 ranks 3 int 2/dru) +2 to survival
Know (Planes)      +8 (5 ranks 3 int) +2 to survival
Know (Religion)   +29 (23 ranks 3 int 3/feat) +2 to turning
Listen            +16 (5 ranks 11 wis)
Search             +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Sense Motive      +31 (20 ranks 11 wis) +2 to diplomacy
Sleight of Hand   +27 (20 ranks 5 dex 2/bluff)
Survival          +16 (1 ranks 11 wis 2/dru 2/kn)
Spellcraft        +28 (23 ranks 3 int 2/ka)
Spot              +31 (20 ranks 11 wis)  Notice presence of active invisible creature: DC 20; unmoving DC 30.
Tumble            +28 (23 ranks 5 dex) 150% bonus on defensive action AC

Spent  204 ranks

Tricks: 4 pts
Acrobatic Backstab (enemy flatfooted if you tumble past)
Collector of Stories (+5 know to identify creatures)



EQUIPMENT (total 648,584 gp 4sp)
Adventurer's Outfit                [- gp]
Belt of Health                     [36000 gp; +6 con]
Gauntlets of Power                 [36000 gp; +6 str]
Periapt of Wisdom                  [36000 gp; +6 Wis]
Jade Circlet                       [1500 gp; also serves as focus for shapechange]
Gem of Spell Extending             [3700 gp; Extend up to 6th level sp, 

1/day]
Skill Trinket, Clarity of Vision   [1000 gp; (DC 20 spot pinpoints all invis within 30')]
Skill Trinket, Back on your Feet   [1000 gp; (as soon as you fall prone, stand immediately.  No AOOs.)]
Skill Trinket, Conceal Spellcasting[1000 gp; (Sleight of hand disguises spellcasting; no AOOs etc.)]
Bracers of Armor +8                [64,000 gp; force AC 8]
Starmantle Cloak                   [132,000 gp; perm starmantle: ref DC 15 to halve magic weapon dmg]
Boots of Haste                     [12000 gp; haste 10 rounds/day]

+1 sure striking spellstoring spellblade magebane dagger [41002 gp; adamantium, overcomes align DR, redirect disintegrate]
+1 paralyzing spellblade magebane dagger      [41002 gp; adamantium, will DC 17 or held; redirect greater dispel magic]
Tome +5 Wis                        [137,500 gp; consumed]
Tome +5 Dex                        [137,500 gp; consumed]
Strand of Prayer Beads             [25,800 gp; beads of healing, karma, smiting]
Bead of healing 	Wearer can cast his choice of cure serious wounds, remove blindness/deafness, or remove disease.
Bead of karma 		Wearer casts his spells at +4 caster level. Effect lasts 10 minutes.
Bead of smiting 	Wearer can cast chaos hammer, holy smite, order’s wrath, or unholy blight (Will DC 17 partial).
Each special bead can be used once per day.


MW Composite Longbow               [330 gp; Darkwood; 1d8 x3; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Cold Iron (20)		   [40 gp; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Silver (10)		   [30 gp; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Regular (40)		   [40 gp; in weightless storage]
Efficient Quiver		   [1800 gp]
Antitoxin x2			   [100 gp; +5 Fort vs. poison 1 hr.]
Cold Iron Caltrops x5		   [10 gp; in weightless storage]
Silk Rope 			   [20 gp; 100', +2 use rope, 10 lbs.] 
Pearl of Power I x4                [4000 gp; recall 4x 1st level spell]


Wand of Lesser Vigor               [750 gp; 50 charges, fast healing 1 for 11 rounds]
Sacred Scabbard                    [4400 gp; Bless Weapon 3/day, CL4]
Antitoxin x1                       [50 gp; +5 Fort vs. poison 1 hr.]

STUFF (14gp 4sp)

Hooded Lantern                     [7 gp]
Oil x10                            [1 gp]
Shovel                             [2 gp]
Waterskin                          [1 gp]
Symbol x2                          [2 gp]
Tindertwig                         [1 gp]
Bedroll                            [1 sp]
Parchment                          [2 sp]
Chalk x5                           [5 cp]
Whetstone                          [2 cp]
Flask of water                     [3 cp]

DRUID SPELLS:   6	5+1	5+1	5+1	4+1	4+1	4+1	3+1	2+1	1+1
BONUS: +11	—	3	3	3	2	2	2	2-1	1	1

0 - detect magic x2, detect poison, naturewatch, purify food and drink, read magic
1 - entangle, eyes of the avoral, faerie fire, omen of peril x2, lesser vigor, silvered claws, winged watcher, identify*
2 - barkskin, briar web, master air, resist energy x2, soften earth and stone x2, warp wood, augury*
3 - affliction, greater magic fang x2, nature's favor x2, poison, quench, spike growth, divination*
4 - chain of eyes, flamestrike, freedom of movement, greater luminous armor, last breath, rusting grasp, scrying*
5 - Animal Growth x2, Baleful Polymorph, Death Ward, wall of Thorns, stilled freedom of movement, commune*
6 - Cometfall, Find the Path, Greater Dispel Magic x2, Miasma, stilled silent freedom of movement, legend lore*
7 - Slime Wave, Sunbeam, True Seeing, greater scrying*
8 - Leonal's Roar, Sunburst, Word of Recall, discern location*
9 - Shapechange x2, foresight*

*Domain spell. [/sblock]

In other affairs . . . Yikes, I was wondering why the thread grew so fast.     If anyone wants my perspective on powergaming in general, I've sblocked it so that the thread can stay on topic.  I think some of you might find it instructive, but then, some of you might find it offensive, so read it at your own discretion. 

[sblock=Powergaming]
Personally, I think anything less than AC 100* is within acceptable limits.  I understand Jemal's build philosophy: if you're playing a level 20 character who is supposed to kick butt and save the world, do all you can to make it capable of really kicking butt.  

When Jemal points out that any of a half-dozen builds people can easily find on a search engine or construct off the top of their head can wipe him out in one round, he's not kidding.  Off the top of my head, how about a DSP/divine metamagic widened blasphemy build?  You can get a caster level in the 40s and he'll die with no save as long as you can get to within 80' of him.  SR will likely not even be worth mentioning.  With a properly built character, you can even pull this trick off more than once per day.

Of course, I've been accused of not having a normal perspective on power levels in builds.  But the point is that there is much worse out there.  There is a reason I didn't build a cleric.    


*20 x 5 = 100, so 100 at this level.  I made a thread a while back about how 5*character level is generally what constitutes a good AC.[/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2007)

Odd. I thought it was 780,000...DMG, where art thou...


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## Jemal (Apr 14, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Darimaus, having DMed 14-person parties before, let me just say that I appreciate how time-consuming build checking is.  I've tried to explicitly state where all my bonuses are coming from.  The only questions I have are:
> 
> - Do I need to be aware of any changes to druid wild shape?  Absent instructions to the contrary, I expect that it will work as it has since the start of 3.5.  I'd just like to be sure so I don't find out mid-combat that my build doesn't work.
> - Do you rule that a ninja's ki power: invisible lasts for one full round when used?  (Every DM I have ever had has ruled this way due to the wording, but I just want to be clear.)
> - Shapechange causes a char to lose his own (Su) and gain the (Su) of his new form.  Do you rule that that includes or excludes spell-like abilities?  What about psi-like abilities and psionics?



Well I'm not the DM, but One thing I'd point out is that when Wild Shape'd, all of your equipment melds and becomes nonfunctional(Though I think there's an Enchantment or a clasp that lets them stay on you).  As far as I know, Shapechange does not grant (or loose) Spell-like abilities, b/c they're not Supernatural or Extraordinary, they're a third classification.



> 760,000gp is the official recommended wealth level.  I checked that number before putting it on my sheet the other day.  Does anyone have the XP we are starting with?  I know it's halfway to 21, but has anyone done the math?  It's the end of the week and I don't feel like looking things up anymore   :\



760,000 is indeed the correct amount (DMG page 135), and the XP would be at 200,000. (190K is lvl 20, 210K is lvl 21)


> [sblock=Powergaming]
> Personally, I think anything less than AC 100* is within acceptable limits.  I understand Jemal's build philosophy: if you're playing a level 20 character who is supposed to kick butt and save the world, do all you can to make it capable of really kicking butt.
> 
> When Jemal points out that any of a half-dozen builds people can easily find on a search engine or construct off the top of their head can wipe him out in one round, he's not kidding.  Off the top of my head, how about a DSP/divine metamagic widened blasphemy build?  You can get a caster level in the 40s and he'll die with no save as long as you can get to within 80' of him.  SR will likely not even be worth mentioning.  With a properly built character, you can even pull this trick off more than once per day.
> ...



[sblock=moritheil] While I wouldn't go so far as to say 5*lvl (most things in D&D tend to be Exponential rather than a straight times X number), I see where you're coming from...
  I'd also like to hazard a guess that you've at least taken a peek at the Wizards Optimization Boards.[/sblock]


----------



## Voidrazor (Apr 14, 2007)

Here's an updated version of my character. She's close to done except for her cohort. A couple of questions:
Under the description of Dorjes it says that they can be bought with a ML above the minimum. Is this OK in your campaign?
The 5th level ability Shadow Pounce of the Crinti Shadow Stalker (Shining South p.24) states that whenever the character uses a teleport subschool ability they get to make a full attack. By RAW this would allow multiple full round attacks when paired with certain powers. Do you have a house nerf on this? It would allow her to do insane amount of damage although she'd run out of PP fairly quickly.

[sblock=Updated sheet]*Lowryllyth, "The Death-Blossom"*

```
Female Lawful Evil Elan Totemist 2 / Erudite 6 / Crinti Shadow Marauder 5 / Slayer 7

Strength     20  (+5)   13 base +6 Enchantment +1 Level
Dexterity    17  (+3)  11 base +6 Enchantment
Constitution 22  (+6)  16 base +6 Enchantment
Intelligence 32  (+11) 17 base +6 Enchantment +5 Inherent +4 levels
Wisdom       20  (+5)  14 base +6 Enchantment
Charisma     19  (+4)   15 base -2 Racial +6 Enchantment

Size: Medium
Height: 5' 8"
Weight: 102 lb
Skin: Black
Eyes: Blue
Hair: White
Age: 450 years

HP: [url=http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=973751]192[/url]
AC: 33 (10 base +3 Dex +8 Armor +5 Deflection +6 Monk +1 Insight) 25 Touch 30 Flat-footed
Initiative: +5
BAB: +16
PP: 192 
XP: 

Fort 25 (8 base +6 Con +5 resistance +1 Ioun Stone +1 Luckstone +4 Racial*)
Ref 25 (11 base +3 Dex +5 resistance +1 Ioun Stone +1 Luckstone +4 Racial*)
Will 27 (11 base +5 Wis +5 resistance +1 Ioun Stone +1 Luckstone +4 Racial*)
* Racial bonus costs 1pp, always spent

Feats
1st Track
3rd Mounted Combat, Overchannel (Bonus)
6th Stealthy
8th Midnight Augmentation (Bonus)
9th Practiced Manifester
12th Elan Resilience
15th Leadership
18th Metamorphic Transfer 

Skill Points 183
Skill Name	         Ability   Total	Mod	Ranks	Misc.
Bluff                     Cha      19 =        +4       +15
Concentration	          Con	   29 = 	+6	+23	
Gather Information	  Cha	    7 = 	+4	+3	+2 [know local] 
Handle Animal             Cha        8 =        +4        +4
Hide                      Dex       19 =        +3        +16  (8 cc)
Knowledge (arcana)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (architecture)  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (dungeoneering) Int	   15 = 	+11	+4	
Knowledge (geography)	  Int	   12 = 	+11     +1	
Knowledge (history)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (local)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (nature)	  Int	   16 = 	+11	+5	
Knowledge (nobility)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Knowledge (psionics)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1
Knowledge (religion)	  Int	   12 = 	+11	+1	
Listen	                  Wis	   28 = 	+5	+23	
Move Silently             Dex     19 =       +3       +16 (8 cc)
Ride                      Dex     11 =       +3       +8
Spot	                  Wis	   28 = 	+5	+23	
Psicraft	          Int	   26 = 	+11	+15
Skill Tricks: Clarity of Vision, Collector of Stories


Repertoire
1st Offensive Prescience, Call to Mind, Force Screen, Defensive Precognition, Offensive Precognition, Psionic Grease, Synchronicity (Comp Psi p.103), Claws of the Beast*, Astral Construct*, Metaphysical Claw*, Expansion*, Adrenalin Boost* (Comp Psi p.78)
2nd Hustle*, Energy Stun, Forced Sense Link, Psionic Tongues, Psychoportive Shelter (Comp Psi p.97), 
3rd Dispel Psionics, Energy Burst, Telekinetic Thrust, Telekinetic Force, Greater Concealing Amorpha*, Claws of the Vampire*, Dimension Slide*
4th Correspond, Psionic Dimension Door, Psychic Reformation, Metamorphosis*, Psionic Open Chakra (Incarnum p.107), Schism*, Tower of Iron Will*, Psionic Dominate*
5th Anticipitory Strike (Comp Psi p.78), Power Resistance, Psionic Plane Shift, Psionic True Seeing, Second Chance*, Mind Probe*
6th Inconstant Location (Comp Psi p.91), Mind Over Energy (Comp Psi p.93), Psionic Contingency, Temporal Acceleration

Equipment 
Belt of Magnificence 200k
Dorje of Claws of the Vampire 9th ML 20,250
Dorje of Expansion 6th ML 4,500
Dorje of Inconstant Location 49,500
Hat of Disguise 1,800
+5 Tome of Clear Though 137,500
Boots of Speed 12k
Cloak of Resistance +5 25k
Bracers of Armor +8 64k
Monk's Vest 19,500 (Monks belt)
Ring of Deflection +5 50k
Ring of Invisibility 20k
Rod of Absorption 50k
Cautious Warrior Psicrown 32,063
Luckstone 20k
Pale Green Ioun Stone 30k

Used Power Stones 5,750

Remaining funds 18,137
```
[/sblock]


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Apr 14, 2007)

Just subscribing to the thread to keep an eye on it...

Regards,
BS
PbP Mod


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## moritheil (Apr 14, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Well I'm not the DM, but One thing I'd point out is that when Wild Shape'd, all of your equipment melds and becomes nonfunctional(Though I think there's an Enchantment or a clasp that lets them stay on you).




All your gear _that can't be worn on your new form_.  Awareness of this issue is why I took a PrC that allows one to benefit from some gear while wildshaped.  Thanks for pointing that out, though!    

EDIT: Hmm, weird.  Looks like it really is all gear now.  


			
				srd said:
			
		

> Any gear worn or carried by the druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional.




Hmm, good call.  Looks like my +wis gear won't be as useful as I thought.  :\  Though magic items do resize . . . I guess I could still wear a collar.



> As far as I know, Shapechange does not grant (or loose) Spell-like abilities, b/c they're not Supernatural or Extraordinary, they're a third classification.




Ah, yes.  Thanks.



> 760,000 is indeed the correct amount (DMG page 135), and the XP would be at 200,000. (190K is lvl 20, 210K is lvl 21)




And thanks.

[sblock=quote] While I wouldn't go so far as to say 5*lvl (most things in D&D tend to be Exponential rather than a straight times X number), I see where you're coming from...
  I'd also like to hazard a guess that you've at least taken a peek at the Wizards Optimization Boards.[/sblock]

[sblock]Well, I also mentioned in that thread that it was only valid at level 6 or so and up.  I don't really keep up with the Wizards CO boards, but I have gamed with some very competitive people, and I know they do.  I basically learned 3.5 in such an environment.[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2007)

Hmm! Almost done. I really like this build.

Dari, are you allowing Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel?


----------



## moritheil (Apr 14, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm! Almost done. I really like this build.
> 
> Dari, are you allowing Skill Tricks from Complete Scoundrel?




I hope he is!  I've got two.    

AFAIK he's only vetoed UA; all other hardcover WOTC material is legal.


----------



## Unkabear (Apr 14, 2007)

I am sitting on top of under just over half starting money.  Looks like I have a bit of shopping to do.  As well as better categorize my list and state their book or origin.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm sitting on ~100k, and no one has told me what to spend it on.  I haven't even used my ring slots yet.  (Not that I'll benefit from rings while I'm in wild shape, but it feels wrong somehow to build a 20th level character with no rings whatsoever.)

Guess I'll buy another tome.  With int coming in at 15th level, that's still 5 levels of extra skill points.  A +4 tome would yield 10 skill points.  Hmmm, that may not be worth it . . .  :\


----------



## Voidrazor (Apr 14, 2007)

Moritheil - The item Jemal mentioned that lets you use an item while 'shaped is a Wilding Clasp from Masters of the Wild. Its a mere 4k a pop, but only works on stuff that items that could be clasped, such as a necklace or vest.

Another trick would be to take off your items, change into a primary adventuring form (Legendary Ape?), them put the items back on. Yet another trick is to get full plate with the Wild attribute. It gets absorbed into the new form while wildshaped, but still provides the benefits without the non-proficiency penalty. Of course these are tricks, so they might be nixed.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2007)

Rough draft of Thorn, the Superninja!

[sblock]Name: Thorn
Race: Human
Class/Level Ninja 10 / Shadowdancer 10
Gender: Female
Exp

Desc

Strength (STR) 22
Dexterity (DEX) 30
Constitution (CON) 26 
Intelligence (INT) 14
Wisdom (WIS) 26
Charisma (CHA) 14

Alignment: Neutral
AC: 35 (10 +10 dex +2 ninja +8 wis +5 deflection)
Hit Points: 6+19d6+160 (233)
Movement: 30'

Init: +10
Base Attack Bonus: +14/+9/+4
Melee Attack: +20/+15/+10
Ranged Attack: +24/+19/+14
Fort: +19
Reflex: +29
Will: +21

Race Abilities
Bonus feat
Bonus skill points

Class Abilities:
AC Bonus (Wis bonus +2)
Ki Power 13/day
Sudden Strike 5d6
Trapfinding
Ghost Step (Invis and Ethereal)
Improved Poison Use
Great Leap
Acrobatics +2
Ki Dodge (Concealment)
Speed Climb
Ghost Strike

Hide in Plain Sight (Shadows)
Improved Evasion
Darkvision 60'
Improved Uncanny Dodge
Shadow Illusion
Shadow Companion (7HD)
Shadow Jump 160'/day
Defensive Roll
Slippery  Mind

Skills:117+90
Balance +17 (5 ranks + 10 dex + 2 synergy)
Bluff +19 (17 ranks + 2 cha)
Climb +23 (15 ranks + 6 str + 2 class)
Escape Artist +30 (20 ranks + 10 Dex)
Hide +35 (20 ranks + 10 dex + 5 comp)
Jump +24 (10 ranks + 6 Str + 6 Class + 2 synergy)
Listen +28 (20 ranks + 8 Wis)
Move Silently +35 (20 ranks + 10 dex + 5 comp)
Open Lock +20 (10 ranks + 10 dex)
Perform +7 (5 CC ranks + 2 cha)
Search +22 (20 ranks + 2 int)
Sense Motive +18 (10 ranks + 8 wis)
Spot +28 (20 ranks + 8 wis)
Tumble +24 (10 ranks + 10 dex + 2 synergy + 2 class)

Feats
1 Dodge
1 Mobility
3 Exotic Weapon: Spiked Chain
6 Weapon Finesse
9 Combat Reflexes
12 Spring Attack
15 Power Attack
18 Bounding Assault

Languages - Common, Draconic, Elvish

Money - 905

Weapons -
Eye of the Storm +4, Whirling, Deadly Precision, 72,315
 +28 to hit, 2d4+13, does 7d6 on sudden strike

Armour -
None

Gear -
None

Magic -
Gloves of Dexterity +6, 36k
Belt of Strength +6, 36k
Amulet of Health +6, 36k
Headband of Wis +6, 36k

War Wizard's Cloak of Stone, 28k
Vest of Resistance +5, 25k
Ring of Protection +5, 50k
Ring of Spell Turning, 98,280
Lockpicking Ring, 3.5k
Handy Haversack, 2k
Rod of Rope, 4k

3 tomes, 330,000
+4 Wis, Dex, Con

Background: 
	None

Shadow
Hit Dice: 7d12 (46)
Initiative: +2
Speed:	Fly 30 ft. (good) (8 squares)	
Armor Class: 14 (+2 Dex, +2 deflection), touch 14, flat-footed 12
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/-
Attack:	Incorporeal touch +6 melee (1d8 Str)		
Space/Reach:	5 ft./5 ft.	
Special Attacks: strength damage	
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., incorporeal traits, +2 turn resistance, undead traits	
Saves:	Fort +2, Ref +4, Will +6
Abilities: Str —, Dex 14, Con —, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 14
Skills:	Hide +12*, Listen +8, Search +4, Spot +8	
Feats:	Flyby Attack, Improved Natural Attack, Weapon Focus (incorporeal touch)

Skills: Shadows have a +2 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks and a +4 racial bonus on Search checks.

*A shadow gains a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks in areas of shadowy illumination. In brightly lit areas, it takes a –4 penalty on Hide checks.[/sblock]


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 14, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I'm sitting on ~100k, and no one has told me what to spend it on.  I haven't even used my ring slots yet.  (Not that I'll benefit from rings while I'm in wild shape, but it feels wrong somehow to build a 20th level character with no rings whatsoever.)




Note my 5,000gp Diamond to serve as a material component _just in case_ I happen to need a Raise.


----------



## Insight (Apr 14, 2007)

Darimaus, don't bother reviewing my Githzerai character.  I don't want you to waste time on a character I may have to completely redo or throw out.  If I come up with something more viable over the weekend, I'll post it.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 14, 2007)

Alrighty, back in business. 

Shayuri - WotC hardcover sources are in, skill tricks fall under that catagory, so they are in.

moritheil - I agree with your interpretation, you can stay invisible for 1 full round.

Kafkonia - The stat increases are seperate from your rolls, so yes you get them too.

Now I can get back to character checking (I'm good for around 4-6 more this time.)


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 14, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 - Ok, most of your character concept is fine, but I did find two things. First, as far as I can tell, you are entitled to 9 feats, and yet have 10. Can you tell me the other feat is from. Also, I found a technicality that I'm going to wave for your sake. Deathless Frenzy does not apply to Warforged, because they do not experience the dying condition at -1 to -9, but instead face the immobile condition, which doesn't cause hit point loss but means you cannot move. (the same applies for diehard as well). I will allow you to do so, cause I'm just that nice 

moritheil - looks good. I haven't stumbled across any errors. Just for that, I'll make sure I reread it later and make sure I'm in a right state of mind, but considering the detail you posted, I'm pretty sure any mistakes would have been obvious.

Insight - you asked me not to look over your character, so let me know if you want me to go back and check him out at some point.

Tailspinner - Looking good too. No errors so far. Not too unexpected though, since you've got half of the levels worth of things to check over lol. You'll certainly be a flavorful addition to the campain.

Jemal - You've been under alot of fire for this character concept, so I'm gonna wait for you to confirm whether or not tis the one you want. Its not that I want to skip it, but I'd like to get all the definitive characters looked over asap, and doing all the "ifs" right now wouldn't be fair.

Voidrazor - I don't recall if I've given you an answer yet on your Erudite. My first instinct says no, since it means more work for me. But then I though, you know, I should be fair about this. If you're willing to work just as hard I'll allow it. Simply put, WHENEVER you use an ability from said class, you must spoiler the exact text and re-provide the link to it. I'll use the info if you make it readily available for me to use it. If these terms are acceptable, we'll proceed with character lookovers. As for your multiple full attacks, I don't believe in spot nerfing, and leave you with some advice. You should believe in D&D karma 

Shayuri - Simple but effective. You've passed my inspection with flying colors.

Thats my contribution for tonight. See you all in the coming morn. BTW, to whom it may concern, next friday will be the cutoff date, as well as the date for PCs to place final votes on whether or not this will be a small game or a more open game (I'm seeing some pretty good support for the open game, I just want to make sure nobody is offended enough by the concept to bail. Or that I'm completely misreading the posts and that there is in fact more support for the closed system.) Take it easy all.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 14, 2007)

Allright, working on another concept that hopefully will be less... 'offensive'.
though I'm not too sure about that....  How's this one look?

[sblock=FighterMage, Still Under Construction.]
Whin Z. Roe
Male Spellscale Fgtr1/Human Sorc6/E.Knight7/Monk1/Abjurant Champion5/
AL: LE  HT: 5'6"(11' enlarged) WT: 174(1392 enlarged) Age: 28  Hair: Silver, spiked Eyes: Blue

STR: 36 (+13) [17 Base + 6 Enhancement + 3 Level + 8 Arms + 2 size]
DEX: 22 (+6) [17 Base + 6 Enhancement + 1 Inherent - 2 size]
CON: 18 (+4) [13 Base + 6 Enhancement - 2 Racial + 1 Level]
INT: 15 (+2) [15 Base]
WIS: 15 (+2) [11 Base + 4 Enhancement ]
CHA: 30 (+10) [16 Base + 6 Enhancement +2 Racial + 1 Level + 5 Inherent]

HP: 166 (6d4+2d8+12d10+80) http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=975323
AC: 58 (10 Base + 6 Dex +10 Cha + 1 Class + 5 Deflection + 5 Natural Armour + 11 Armour + 9 Shield + 2 Luck - 1 size) [44 Flat Footed, 44 touch]
Saves: FORT: +24 (12 base + 4 con + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck)  REF: +21 (7 base + 6 dex + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck) WILL: +23  (13 base + 2 wis + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck)
Init: +6 (+6 dex).   Move : 60', 120' fly.

Bab: 16.  Grapple : +37  Trip : +17
Forcelance(Huge) : + 30/30/25/20/15, 4d6+21 damage. 
Claws : +28/28, 1d6+13 damage.
Full Flurry : +28/28/28/23/18/13, 3d6+20 damage(staff).


Skills(Total/Ranks):[94 Points] Concentration(+27/23), Know:Arcana(+25/23), Spellcraft(+27/23), Jump(+20/5), Tumble(+12/5), Spot(+7/5), Listen(+7/5), Apraise(+3/1cc), Use Magic Device(+11/1cc), 1 skill point left
*cc=cross class*


Feats: [8]  Combat Casting, Aesetic Mage, Somatic Weaponry, Twin Spell, Practical Metamagic(Twin), Sun School, Quicken Spell, Versatile Spellcaster
Bonus Feats: Retributive Spell(E.Knight), Improved Grapple(Monk), Deflect Arrows(Fighter)

Racial Features : +2 cha, -2 con.  Low-Light Vision, Blood Quickening. [Common Meditations : Astilabor(+20 Appraise, Eshcew Materials), Chronepsis(+20 Listen, Silent Spell), IO(+20 Spellcraft, Empower 3/day), Lendys(+20 Concentration, Still Spell)]
Class Features: Sorc Spellcasting (Level 17), Metamagic Specialist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Abjurant Armour(+5), Extended Abjuration, Swift Abjuration, Arcane Boost(+5), Martial Arcanist(N/A)

Spells (per day): CL 18
LVL 0 (6) - 9 - Light, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Stick, 
LVL 1 (9) - 5 - Magic Missile, Shield, Benign Transposition, True Strike, Ebon Eyes
LVL 2 (9) - 5 - Wraith Strike, See Invisibility, Dolorus Blow, Heroics, 1 more
LVL 3 (8) - 4 - Greater Mage Armour, Ray of the Python, Dolorus Blow, Ferocity of Sanguine Rage
LVL 4 (8) - 4 - Orb of Force, Orb of Acid, Dimension Door, Chain Missile
LVL 5 (8) - 4 - Arcane Fusion, Lightning Leap, Greater Blink, Greater Enlarge Person
LVL 6 (8) - 3 - Greater Anticipate Teleport, Superior Resistance, Greater Blink
LVL 7 (7) - 3 - Arcane Spell Surge, Energy Absorption, Greater Teleport
LVL 8 (5) - 2 - Greater Arcane Fusion, Moment of Presience

*Runestaff Spells, usable max 3/day each*
Cone of cold, continual flame, fireball, globe of invulnerability, hold monster, levitate, ligntning bolt, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, wall of force(5'radius hemisphere centered on caster).

Daily Cast Buffs : 
Greater Mage Armour (+11 Armour to AC), 36 hour duration
Energy Absorption (Resist:10 all energy types; can gain immunity/Heal half damage once- ends spell), 36 hour duration
Superior Resistance(+6 saves), 24 hour duration
Greater Enlarge Person(Enlarged), 18 hour duration
Moment of Presience (+18 to one roll), 18 hour duration


Languages: Common, Draconic, 2 more

Equipment: 760,000 GP
BOOKS : STR+1, Dex+1, CHA+4 (165,000)
ForceLance: Sizing, Speed RuneStaff of Power(+2) (85,300)
Belt of Strength +6 (36,000)
Storing Gloves of Dexterity +6 (66,000)
Amulet of Wisdom +4 (16,000)
Robe of Constitution +6 (36,000)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000)
Vest of Natural Armour +5 (50,000)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Strongarm Bracers (6,000)
Boots of Striding/Springing (5,500)
Ioun stone: +1 caster level (30,000)
Rod of Maximize (54,000)
Fiendish Wings (10,000)
2 Fiendish Legs (11,000)
2 Fiendish Arms (100,000)

700 GP
[/sblock]


----------



## moritheil (Apr 14, 2007)

Darimaus - Great, thanks!   

Voidrazor - I've avoided ape for the very reasons you mentioned.  I'll probably pick up a wild clasp, though.  Thanks for the detail!

zeb. - Druids don't use raise dead   I do have Last Breath prepared, though.  I guess it wouldn't hurt to check my spells over for costly components.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 14, 2007)

Jemal, you should only have a CL of 17. The 1st level of Eldritch Knight doesn't advance caster level. It instead gives a bonus feat.


----------



## Insight (Apr 14, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Insight - you asked me not to look over your character, so let me know if you want me to go back and check him out at some point.




I have a new concept that is both awesome and fills a useful role without being overshadowed by others (I don't think anyway).  I'm going to stick with the psionics stuff, but I'm going at it from another angle.  Also, I'm awaiting my copy of Complete Psionic from eBay.

I'll post the new one when I have something together.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2007)

Jemal, great build! I too enjoy Ascetic Mage perhaps a bit too much.   It's great synergy. Also, Avalon, his 'true' caster level is 17...look at his spell count. Same as a 17th level sorc. The 18th caster level comes from his ioun stone, and is just for calculating CL based stuff like dispel checks, SR penetration, range and target count...etc. It looks kosher to me.

Hmm...looking at this makes me want to try my Ninja/Sorc/Spell Sniper build. Hee hee.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 14, 2007)

I didn't see the ioun stone. Nice job Jemal!


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 14, 2007)

I usually try to optimize my characters, but it often turns out I'm not very good at it. 

Anyway, hope there's still room for me. I'd like to try a melee-monster for this game, a Half-Ogre (+1) War Troll (+12+6) with a level in some undecided class (possibly something fighterish, possibly some class with UMD as a class skill...)
Do you allow custom-made magic items (using the rules from the SRD/DMG)?


----------



## Rino (Apr 14, 2007)

I'm starting a scout, looks a lot like that superninja but ranged and super stealth

maybe dropping in some lvls rogue and shadowdancers, or straight up scout

edit: I dont have my books here with me so monday or tuesday I will have something


----------



## Jemal (Apr 14, 2007)

Nephtys - He posted no to that earlier.  You can swap existing items to other slots, or add mulitple items together (Gloves of storing AND dex+6, or VEST of resistance+5), but no creating new ones using the chart.

As for your Melee Monster, the main problem with it is lack of hit dice.. Real easy to get One-Shot. (Or two-shot).
Just looking at some examples of other 20th level melee characters in this thread...

Tailspinner's Character has three attacks that'll probably hit you (I don't see a War Troll 1/2 ogre having an AC over 40), for an average of 48 damage each. (144 over 3 attacks)
Bloodweaver's Warforged berserker has 5 hits for 48 each, the last one hitting an average ac of 37.
My character attacks 5 times for average of 33 damage(with lower attack bonus), but can add in spellcasting.

If any of the foes you face are similar...

*ALSO, one other thing... Where's War Troll from, and isn't it a base race?  B/c I know Half-ogre is a RACE, not a TEMPLATE, and you can't add two races together.*

Avalon/Shayuri - Yep, Ioun stone.  When I hit Epic, I gain 9th level spellcasting AND an epic feat.


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 14, 2007)

No custom made magic? That's probably a wise decision. 

War Troll is a base race, it's right here: http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20040815b&page=6 . The Natural armour bonus should help with the AC and the Dex bonus doesn't hurt. The main prolem is the Holy Word/Word of Chaos type spells, so I'm going to have to find an item that protects against Death effects and a Ring of Freedom of Movement (that should take care of the worst of it).
Guess I won't use the Half Ogre then. I had only a vague recollection about it anyway, so that's one less thing I'm going to have to dig for. Maybe a monk level instead, to go with the Wisdom bonus...

Thanks for the tips.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 14, 2007)

Darimaus, would it be ok to use stuff from Races of Dragon?


----------



## Jemal (Apr 14, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Darimaus, would it be ok to use stuff from Races of Dragon?




I hope so, I'm Spellscaled and have a couple feats from the book...

He did say any Hardcover WIZCO book that isn't Unearthed Arcana..


----------



## Jemal (Apr 14, 2007)

Tailspinner - I was just looking over some of the charactesr, and I noticed that you've got a belt of str + 6 AND potions of bull strength.. They're both Enhancement bonuses, and don't stack...


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 14, 2007)

Pretty good:
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [5,5,4] = (14)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,5,5] = (16)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [5,5,4] = (14)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,5,2] = (13)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,6,6] = (18)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [6,4,3] = (13)
4d6.minroll(2).takeHighest(3)-> [4,4,3] = (11)

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=976081


----------



## moritheil (Apr 14, 2007)

So, it appears that everyone else is reading straight through sblocks.  I guess this is going to be one of those campaigns where everyone knows exactly what everyone else is capable of.   :\  

(Let me clarify: I don't have any problem with people who don't mind sharing their char sheets and asking for advice.  I'm just leery of being a divine caster in such a campaign because inevitably there will be a situation where you don't want to spend time in combat healing someone, and then they die, and they assert that you could have healed them, and the recrimination never ends.  

For reasons like that, I've always thought it gauche to read someone else's sheet - or their spoilers in general - without their permission.  Am I the only one?)



			
				Nephtys said:
			
		

> The main prolem is the Holy Word/Word of Chaos type spells, so I'm going to have to find an item that protects against Death effects and a Ring of Freedom of Movement (that should take care of the worst of it).




I think the main problem is surviving after said items get disjoined.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 14, 2007)

> So, it appears that everyone else is reading straight through sblocks. I guess this is going to be one of those campaigns where everyone knows exactly what everyone else is capable of.
> 
> (Let me clarify: I don't have any problem with people who don't mind sharing their char sheets and asking for advice. I'm just leery of being a divine caster in such a campaign because inevitably there will be a situation where you don't want to spend time in combat healing someone, and then they die, and they assert that you could have healed them, and the recrimination never ends.
> 
> For reasons like that, I've always thought it gauche to read someone else's sheet - or their spoilers in general - without their permission. Am I the only one?)




I was unaware that we were keeping them secret.. I've played in very few campaigns where the characters WERE secret from each other, and usually the sblocked characters are just done to save space.  I've never had a situation like the one you describe happen.. not IRL, not on ENWorld, not when I'm DMing, not when I'm Playing.  
And btw, using your example, as soon as you cast a single divine spell and someone recognizes it, they'll know you could heal anyways, so I fail to see what it stops, unless you hide your divine magic's from the entire party at all times.

If it's really a problem for you, title the Sblock "DM only", and most people will respect your privacy.  As I said, the only reason I've been reading them is b/c we're all pointing stuff out to each other and nobody's explicitly stated they don't want others looking at their character.



> I think the main problem is surviving after said items get disjoined.




Ah Mord's... I believe in Karma, so I don't use it.


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 14, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I think the main problem is surviving after said items get disjoined.




But which wizard in his right mind would destroy 760,000 gps worth of magical equipment, Especially a relatively poor NPC? Only a mindless animal, or some sort of insane fanatic would commit such a crime against themselves and the universe.
No, they'd be much better off just hiring some (rediculously cheap) high level mercenaries to get the job done.


----------



## Cheiromancer (Apr 15, 2007)

*Regarding Whin Z. Roe...*

Does Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armor class ability enhance _greater mage armor_?  AFAIK it's a conjuration (creation) spell, not an abjuration, and should only give a +6 AC.  Mind you, the folks who gave the sample NPC in CM 153 apparently thought the ability should apply to _mage armor_.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 15, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> But which wizard in his right mind would destroy 760,000 gps worth of magical equipment, Especially a relatively poor NPC? Only a mindless animal, or some sort of insane fanatic would commit such a crime against themselves and the universe.
> No, they'd be much better off just hiring some (rediculously cheap) high level mercenaries to get the job done.




Like the sort of insane fanatics that want to destroy the world that form the basis for this story arc?    



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> I've never had a situation like the one you describe happen.. not IRL, not on ENWorld, not when I'm DMing, not when I'm Playing.




You're a lucky man.

I don't mean that I don't want people to know that my character can heal.  I'm more talking about plausible deniability, where people say, "Why didn't he cast X spell at Y instance?  Well, I don't know how many slots he had left, maybe he didn't have any prepared slots of that spell left?"  That sort of thing doesn't exist when everyone is transparent.


----------



## Rathan (Apr 15, 2007)

wow.... ok.. this is getting... heh.. complicated.... way to much so for me... if anyone wants to take over the cleric slot.... they can go ahead.. I think I'll leave this high level PbP to the ones who know what they are doing more.. and once I have more experience at it... and more understanding of PRC's... then I'll give it a go... it seems more and more I may be a little inexperienced to make this worth while for me... the clerical role is VERY important.. and I'd rather not have that burden right now heh... again this is no ones choice but my OWN.... I just feel I need a bit more experience with the PrC's.. the VAST amount of them.... before I try something this in depth....

-Rathan


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 15, 2007)

[sblock= Char in Progress]

Charname 
LE Wartroll (12 Monstrous Humanoid + 6 LA), Monk 1, Rogue 1

Str: 42/+16 (16+20(race)+6(Enhancement))
Dex: 26/+8 (14+6(race)+6(Enhancement))
Con: 45/+17 (18+18(race)+6(Enhancement)+3(level))
Int: 17/+3 (13-2(race)+6(Enhancement))
Wis: 24/+7 (14+4(race)+6(Enhancement))
Cha: 19/+4 (13+0(race)+6(Enhancement))

AC: 57 (10+1(monk)+7(wis)+8(dex)+14(natural)+8(armour)+5(natural armour enhancement)+5(deflection)-1(size))
Touch: 30
flatfooted: 49

HD/HP:13d8+1d6+238 = 
Move: 40

Init: 8
Bab: +12
Melee: 12+16+
Ranged: 12+8+

Fort: 27 (3+2+0+17+5) +free movement
Ref: 24 (7+2+2+8+5) +evasion
Will: 23 (7+2+0+9+5) +mindblank

Race Abilities:
Special Attacks: 
Dazing Blow (Ex): The force of a war troll's blow can be overwhelming. If a war troll hits with a weapon or claw attack, the opponent must make a DC 34 (10+1/2HD+Con) Fortitude save or be dazed for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/adamantine, darkvision 90 ft., low-light vision, regeneration 9 (acid damage only), scent, spell resistance 20
Regeneration (Ex): Unlike with their lesser cousins, acid (not fire) deals normal damage to a war troll. If a war troll loses a limb or a body part, the lost portion regrows in 2d4 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.


Class Abilities:
AC Bonus (Ex)
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Unarmed Strike (2d8)
Bonus Feat (Improved Grapple)
Sneak attack +1d6
Trapfinding

Skills: 42 (2x15+4x1+8x1)
Listen: 17 (10+7)
Spot: 17 (10+7)
Use Magic Device: 19 (14cc+8c+4)

Feats:1+3+6+9+12
Power Attack
Cleave 
Great Cleave
Combat Reflexes
Improved Critical (Falchion)

Languages: Common, Giant


Equipment (760k):

Combined Monks Belt (13,000gp x1,5) and Belt of Magnificence +6 (Miniatures Handbook, 200K) +6 to all stats = 219,500 gp

Headband of Mindblank continuously (a Ring in DMG2, 110,000 gp)

Cloak of Resistance+5 (25,000 gp)

Hat of Disguise (1,800 gp)

Winds of Flying (54,000 gp)

Ring of Freedom of Movement (40,000 gp)

Flesh Ring of Scorn (BoVD, 8,000 gp x1,5), Sustenance (2500 gp x1,5), and Greater Elemental (acid 30) Resistance (44,000 gp) = 59750 gp

Bracers of Armour +8: 64000gp

Amulet of Natural Armour +5: 50k

Boots of Protection +5: 50k

Gloves of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk, 3600 gp)

Handy Haversack: 2000 gp

Wand of Cure Light Wounds x4: 3000 gp

Wand of Mirror Image: 4500 gp 

Scroll of Haste x10: 3750 gp

Large Adamantium Falchion of Human Bane +3: 38200 gp
(2d6+3+2d6vs humans 15-20x2)

Large Cold Iron Spiked Chain +3: 20700gp

[/sblock]



			
				moritheil said:
			
		

> Like the sort of insane fanatics that want to destroy the world that form the basis for this story arc?




Nah, they're just digging around for some artifact that's all. If they somehow end up destroying the world that's surely incidental. And since they seem to be the kind of people who appreciate magical items they probably wouldn't be tossing Disjunctions around.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 15, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> wow.... ok.. this is getting... heh.. complicated.... way to much so for me... if anyone wants to take over the cleric slot.... they can go ahead.. I think I'll leave this high level PbP to the ones who know what they are doing more.. and once I have more experience at it... and more understanding of PRC's... then I'll give it a go... it seems more and more I may be a little inexperienced to make this worth while for me... the clerical role is VERY important.. and I'd rather not have that burden right now heh... again this is no ones choice but my OWN.... I just feel I need a bit more experience with the PrC's.. the VAST amount of them.... before I try something this in depth....
> 
> -Rathan




I hate to see you go. Are you sure you don't want to try something simpler, that wouldn't be quite so depended on as a healer is?


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 15, 2007)

Darimaus, if you'd like someone around to make sure the role of the cleric is filled, I could always change my Warblade to a Crusader.  He'll be sure to be there to help in the support role, without completely taking it over.


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## Jemal (Apr 15, 2007)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> Does Abjurant Champion's Abjurant Armor class ability enhance _greater mage armor_?  AFAIK it's a conjuration (creation) spell, not an abjuration, and should only give a +6 AC.  Mind you, the folks who gave the sample NPC in CM 153 apparently thought the ability should apply to _mage armor_.




I just checked, and apparently it IS a conjuratoin spell, which is really weird since the ability specifically talks about "mage armour, shield, and similar spells"....

DM interpretation?


----------



## Rathan (Apr 15, 2007)

that's just the point Darimaus.... when all you own are the core 3.5's.... at this level simple is not even simple..... I mean don't get me wrong.... but with some of the builds I'm seeing here... I'm out of league... now that's not to say I can't rp some of you guys under the table times over.... I'm just not as experienced enough in the PrC neighborhood to hang... plus it's all got me hella confused... I don;t know one power from the next... it's enough to give you an inferiourity complex LOL..... for now my desision stands.....I just feel I wouldn't have as much fun as someone else more experienced.... so why not give them a shot right?


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 15, 2007)

Therin Gorunn is finished cruch-wise. All I need to do is the fluff.


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## Avalon® (Apr 15, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> that's just the point Darimaus.... when all you own are the core 3.5's.... at this level simple is not even simple..... I mean don't get me wrong.... but with some of the builds I'm seeing here... I'm out of league... now that's not to say I can't rp some of you guys under the table times over.... I'm just not as experienced enough in the PrC neighborhood to hang... plus it's all got me hella confused... I don;t know one power from the next... it's enough to give you an inferiourity complex LOL..... for now my desision stands.....I just feel I wouldn't have as much fun as someone else more experienced.... so why not give them a shot right?




Don't be worried about it. I'm just using an Incarnate  20. Not a PrC in sight. But it can go toe to toe with some of the other melee builds here.


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## Avalon® (Apr 15, 2007)

Bloodweaver1, how did you get a gargantuan warhammer? A large creature with powerful build can only weild a huge warhammer. Yours is one size too many.


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## Insight (Apr 15, 2007)

zeb.hillard said:
			
		

> Darimaus, if you'd like someone around to make sure the role of the cleric is filled, I could always change my Warblade to a Crusader.  He'll be sure to be there to help in the support role, without completely taking it over.




Instead of you changing your character, why don't I make a healer, since I haven't submitted my new character (he's not even close at this point, so I could easily make him a Cleric or something to that effect).  I think I'd be happier in that role anyway.  It will still fit in with what I'm working on.


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## Avalon® (Apr 15, 2007)

We need more servants for the Lords of Order!


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## Unkabear (Apr 15, 2007)

I am rather liking my skillful build, and though I chose a race with a LA I believe that there are few PrC's that really fit with rogue.  Thief Acrobat is one, but being able to fly kills most of what that is about, Uncanny Tricksters & Invisible Blades synergize as well depending on your build.  There are a few of us that are not building front line brutes and I think that Litch is someone to watch out for.  But in all I doubt that there will be much outshining as play by post allows anyone so inclined to role play their character into the spotlight of their choice.  A well built healer/Bard/Dragon Shaman/Divine Mind can steal the spotlight easily.  Even though a foe doesn't fall with an attack, there is a difference between 



> I tumble through my opponent, using mosquito bite and tumbling backstab I attack him using my Sneak Attack




vs



> Drawing my weapon I move into position keeping my foe in my sight.  At the last moment I dive between his legs coming up behind him and slide my weapon into him with a soft metal on bone sound.  But with my swiftness of action all I am is a blur to him and my choice of placement of blade was little more than a small sting as he faces my more imposing comrade.  But soon as the blood begins to drain he will notice my mortal strike and I will have become as a ghost and disappeared
> 
> ooc:I tumble through my opponent, using mosquito bite and tumbling backstab I attack him using my Sneak Attack




I post this from a rogues perspective because I enjoy playing them more than fighters.  This action may have used a few skills & skill tricks but with a bit of flair any action becomes something that draws the spotlight.  Every post has that potential.  A bard singing is providing everyone with a modifier that may mean the difference between using partial power attack and full power attack.  A healer can patch up the wounded and get a party ready for the next fight, or take out hordes of undead.  A well built Cleric can stand toe to toe with a fighter with a few moments notice, and Divine Metamagic is nothing to sneeze at.

Even though you are not built for power melee doesn't mean that you should back out.  There are plenty of ways to shine in this game.  And I personally do not oppose a character with a 100ac on my side.  especially if we can bottleneck the opponents.  Set someone at the front to keep them at bay while the others whittle away at them.  Though we are starting as strangers, we are coming together for a common purpose and not to compete in the arena.

Just my two cents.


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## Cheiromancer (Apr 15, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I just checked, and apparently it IS a conjuratoin spell, which is really weird since the ability specifically talks about "mage armour, shield, and similar spells"....
> 
> DM interpretation?



It seems clear that an abjurant champion is supposed to be able to benefit twice; once from an abjuration spell that gives an armor bonus, and again from an abjuration spell that gives a shield bonus.  But I don't know of any abjuration spell that gives an armor bonus.

If I were DM I'd allow it... but I wouldn't have allowed the grafts from the Fiend Folio.  I think they are poorly designed.

It's a very nice character, though.  What is the role of Sun School in the build?


----------



## Jemal (Apr 15, 2007)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> It seems clear that an abjurant champion is supposed to be able to benefit twice; once from an abjuration spell that gives an armor bonus, and again from an abjuration spell that gives a shield bonus.  But I don't know of any abjuration spell that gives an armor bonus.
> 
> If I were DM I'd allow it... but I wouldn't have allowed the grafts from the Fiend Folio.  I think they are poorly designed.
> 
> It's a very nice character, though.  What is the role of Sun School in the build?




I'm hoping he agrees with you on the Mage Armour thing (And disagrees with you on the Fiend Folio..  ).  As for the Sun School.. Well, a good magician never reveals his secrets. 


Side note RE: Unkabear's post : as anybody who's played an MMO knows, even if you can't stand 1 on 1 against the other party members, it doesn't matter... they're your PARTY, you're supposed to complement each other's abilities, not compete.  Even if you do 10 damage, that damage COULD make the difference.  IF your only action is to Flank an opponent and Aid Another, or cast a single buff on another character, YOU may have just won the fight.  If your Cure Moderate Wounds spell keeps the fighter up that one extra round he needed to finish off the oponent, you're a hero.

And yes, as Unkabear put it (Very well, I might add), about 90% of the coolness is in how you describe the action.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 15, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> that's just the point Darimaus.... when all you own are the core 3.5's.... at this level simple is not even simple..... I mean don't get me wrong.... but with some of the builds I'm seeing here... I'm out of league... now that's not to say I can't rp some of you guys under the table times over.... I'm just not as experienced enough in the PrC neighborhood to hang... plus it's all got me hella confused... I don;t know one power from the next... it's enough to give you an inferiourity complex LOL..... for now my desision stands.....I just feel I wouldn't have as much fun as someone else more experienced.... so why not give them a shot right?




OK, I hope this doesn't come out as bragging, I hope this doesn't come out offensive, I hope this doesn't come out as anything but me venting about this twinking argument. I'll start by diverting the subject a little. This isn't a campaign about PC competition. If my large scale thing is accepted, what it will be is a world where PCs get to craft their own goals and accomplishments. Who cares about what the other PCs are doing? Go out there and have fun!!! More importantly its not like we are hurting for pary slots here. It hasn't quite gotten to the point where I feel obligated to bump someone off the list yet, and trust me, if and when it comes down to that, I'm not picking based off of power level, but of creativity and willingness of the PC to have a good time. That being said, lets get this core vs non-core buisness out of the way RIGHT now. I have noted you complain about lacking access to extra sources makes your character weak and pointless. I will now state my position on this matter, and I am fully willing to prove it to the best of my ability to anyone who feels the need to call me on this issue. CORE IS BROKEN!!!!! Instead of making characters more powerful, all the additional sources do is make that power more readily available. The reason why I like them, is because they allow a character to diversify and look at their character builds from different angles. I am sorry that some of you don't have access to such sources, I really am, despite the thousand dollars me and my friends dished out to do it. 

Now, there are different power levels, and using outside sources makes that perfectly clear, but let me try and put my perspective on you all. I have seen, and made 20th level Core characters with an AC over 115. I've made ones with an AC of over 95 with no spellcasting involved whatsoever. (this is using some fighting defensivly/expertise stuff, but you get the idea.) A core cleric can make a more powerful fighter than even our own posted Frenzied Berserker. Difference is, he can still heal... everyone. I don't want you guys getting the idea that this is what I expect, or even want from all of you. I just want to vent on the fact that core is just as bad as using not core. I want you all to make what you think is fun to play. If you think someone else overshadows you, don't hang out with them in game. Go carve your own path. Don't forget why you picked up the books for the very first time. Its a game. ENJOY IT!

If anyone feels the need to retort, go ahead, but please use spoilers. 

Jemal, its obvious that the class is meant to boost those spells, so I'll allow any spell (and advanced variation of it, but clear that with me first) that was listed to gain those effects from the class.

Now I'm overdue for some Zs. Take it easy all.

Rathan, what I'm looking for is roleplay value, so if you believe you can deliver, please continue with the game.


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## Jemal (Apr 15, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Jemal, its obvious that the class is meant to boost those spells, so I'll allow any spell (and advanced variation of it, but clear that with me first) that was listed to gain those effects from the class.




YAYS!!



> Rathan, what I'm looking for is roleplay value, so if you believe you can deliver, please continue with the game.




Indeed, prove to us that you can "RP us under the table".  IT'd make for good gaming.


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## Rathan (Apr 15, 2007)

[sblock=I Apoligise]in a phrase.... you're right... it was silly of me to to think my character is worse of better than anyone elses... call it what you will.. I guess I took the ranting and all.. plus all the 'over my head' chara concepts get to me and felt... well.. inexperienced... I WILL be in this game and I WILL be an intracate roll in this game.... I may have overinflated my ego on the rp part but I've been playing DnD for a long time now and I lost my view on it here for a bit... I am going to have fun doing this and I apoligise for making MYSELF look like a whiney fool... heh.... I also think a little less ranting and a little more crunching is muchly needed.. hehe....  [/sblock]


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## Avalon® (Apr 15, 2007)

Can anyone review my character? Pretty please.


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 15, 2007)

Mine too 

[sblock= Char in Progress]

Charname 
LE Wartroll (12 Monstrous Humanoid + 6 LA), Monk 1, Rogue 1

Str: 42/+16 (16+20(race)+6(Enhancement))
Dex: 26/+8 (14+6(race)+6(Enhancement))
Con: 45/+17 (18+18(race)+6(Enhancement)+3(level))
Int: 17/+3 (13-2(race)+6(Enhancement))
Wis: 24/+7 (14+4(race)+6(Enhancement))
Cha: 19/+4 (13+0(race)+6(Enhancement))

AC: 57 (10+1(monk)+7(wis)+8(dex)+14(natural)+8(armour)+5(natural armour enhancement)+5(deflection)-1(size))
Touch: 30
flatfooted: 49

HD/HP:13d8+1d6+238 = 
Move: 40

Init: 8
Bab: +12
Melee: 12+16+
Ranged: 12+8+

Fort: 27 (3+2+0+17+5) +free movement
Ref: 24 (7+2+2+8+5) +evasion
Will: 23 (7+2+0+9+5) +mindblank

Race Abilities:
Special Attacks: 
Dazing Blow (Ex): The force of a war troll's blow can be overwhelming. If a war troll hits with a weapon or claw attack, the opponent must make a DC 34 (10+1/2HD+Con) Fortitude save or be dazed for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/adamantine, darkvision 90 ft., low-light vision, regeneration 9 (acid damage only), scent, spell resistance 20
Regeneration (Ex): Unlike with their lesser cousins, acid (not fire) deals normal damage to a war troll. If a war troll loses a limb or a body part, the lost portion regrows in 2d4 minutes. The creature can reattach the severed member instantly by holding it to the stump.


Class Abilities:
AC Bonus (Ex)
Flurry of Blows (Ex)
Unarmed Strike (2d8)
Bonus Feat (Improved Grapple)
Sneak attack +1d6
Trapfinding

Skills: 42 (2x15+4x1+8x1)
Listen: 17 (10+7)
Spot: 17 (10+7)
Use Magic Device: 19 (14cc+8c+4)

Feats:1+3+6+9+12
Power Attack
Cleave 
Great Cleave
Combat Reflexes
Improved Critical (Falchion)

Languages: Common, Giant


Equipment (760k):

Combined Monks Belt (13,000gp x1,5) and Belt of Magnificence +6 (Miniatures Handbook, 200K) +6 to all stats = 219,500 gp

Headband of Mindblank continuously (a Ring in DMG2, 110,000 gp)

Cloak of Resistance+5 (25,000 gp)

Hat of Disguise (1,800 gp)

Winds of Flying (54,000 gp)

Ring of Freedom of Movement (40,000 gp)

Flesh Ring of Scorn (BoVD, 8,000 gp x1,5), Sustenance (2500 gp x1,5), and Greater Elemental (acid 30) Resistance (44,000 gp) = 59750 gp

Bracers of Armour +8: 64000gp

Amulet of Natural Armour +5: 50k

Boots of Protection +5: 50k

Gloves of the Master Strategist (Ghostwalk, 3600 gp)

Handy Haversack: 2000 gp

Wand of Cure Light Wounds x4: 3000 gp

Wand of Mirror Image: 4500 gp 

Scroll of Haste x10: 3750 gp

Large Adamantium Falchion of Human Bane +3: 38200 gp
(2d6+3+2d6vs humans 15-20x2)

Large Cold Iron Spiked Chain +3: 20700gp

[/sblock]


----------



## moritheil (Apr 15, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> that's just the point Darimaus.... when all you own are the core 3.5's.... at this level simple is not even simple..... I mean don't get me wrong.... but with some of the builds I'm seeing here... I'm out of league...




I'm not going to complain that you aren't capable of pressing an "I win" button in combat.    Jemal has repeatedly pointed out that none of us are going to second-guess each other's decisions.  

Just have fun.  Who cares what the rest of us can do?


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 15, 2007)

Well, if it will take the pressure off of aspiring clerics, I will be happy to run a 20th level Healer (from Miniatures Handbook.) In fact, I'm almost done with her right now.


----------



## Insight (Apr 15, 2007)

Kafkonia said:
			
		

> Well, if it will take the pressure off of aspiring clerics, I will be happy to run a 20th level Healer (from Miniatures Handbook.) In fact, I'm almost done with her right now.




My new character is a Cleric, if that will affect anyone's decisions.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 15, 2007)

Oof!

Uh...Dari? GM?

Question.

Is the Master of Many Forms PrC still viable, given the changes in wildshape? Cuz...I -love- that class, and I've never gotten to play it. The one game I got it into folded fast, and then the RULES CHANGED. Weep!

But the PrC makes me absurdedly happy, and it wouldn't be at all out of line, powerwise, with anything else we've seen in this thread.

Can I? Pwease?


----------



## Rathan (Apr 15, 2007)

I assume... if we're going with the big 'kinda on your own' PbP more than one healer can't hurt..... but I guess that's the DM's desision hehe


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 15, 2007)

Alrighty, it looks like people need some characters reviewed. I'll do what I can 

Shayuri - I'm a fan of that class too. Be my guest.

Necro_Kinder - Races of Dragon is fine.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 15, 2007)

Avalon® - The Incarnate checks out. Just make sure you do me a favor and keep me updated whenever you switch your essentia around 

Nephtys - Your characters looking good as well. High LA/Racial HD characters are soo easy to read over lol.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 15, 2007)

Just for the record, what's the vote sitting at on Small party/Large 'loose' party?  B/C it looks to me like the majority of peopel are wanting the loose party, and everybody wants in.

If so, then we can still have SOME characters who know each other previously (we don't have to all be strangers).  That being said, I'm typing up my char's background/personality right now.. Would anybody have had cause to work with a LE character who's used by his country as a secret weapon, sent out to 'deal with problems'?

I'm just thinking we should start deciding if any of us know each other.  If so, then how, and if not then why?

ALSO, Darimaus - Do we get more info on the world (Governments, kingdoms, general outlay of land masses, etc), or will it not matter for this campaign?


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## Rathan (Apr 15, 2007)

if you want jemal.. you can take a look at my charas background... it's on page two of this thread I beleive.... see if you can tie yourself in somewhers..... or maybe we can come up with somemore background for me that would tie you in... that's if you want to....

- Rathan


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 16, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Bloodweaver1, how did you get a gargantuan warhammer? A large creature with powerful build can only weild a huge warhammer. Yours is one size too many.



You are right, a large creatur w/ Powerful Build can only wield a huge warhammer in one hand. He can also wield the same weapon one catergory larger in two hands. Hence the Gargantuan warhammer. 

-Bloodweaver


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 16, 2007)

Just curious but how many players do we have playing and what classes are being brought to the table? Just incase we get split up into groups we can divide people evenly. 

-Blood


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

For Clerics (and other classes for which this matters), what are the deities we can use?  Are we stuck with those found in the PHB, Deities & Demigods, and the setting books, or do we have the freedom to create our own deities?  What about domains from WOTC books besides the PHB?


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

dunno if you want a list from Darimaus or not Bloodweaver.... but I have a goblin cleric17/heirophant3


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## Jemal (Apr 16, 2007)

OK, just did a quick looksie
Here's a list of Players who've posted characters, and what they're playing

Jemal : Fighter/Mage(High AC)
Nephtys : Wartroll Monk/Rogue (High Offense, High AC, Regen)
Shayuri : Superninja(shadowdancer)
Voidrazor : Psion
Moritheil : Druid/Daggerspell Shaper
Unkabear : Pixie Rogue
Tailspinner : Half-Dragon/Half-Troll Fighter(High Offense, Regen)
zeb.hillard : Warblade (Book of Nine)
Avalon : Incarnate (Magic of Incarnum)
Bloodweaver1 : Warforged Berserker(Very High Offense)
s@squ@tch : Monk 
Rathan : Goblin Cleric/Heirophant

And here's players who've expressed interest (Or have changed character concept but not posted their new character)
Shayuri : Master of Many Forms (Maybe, not sure if he's sticking with the Superninja)
Insight : Cleric
Kafkonia : Healer
Rino : Scout(maybe Shadowdancer)
LordRaven88 : Mystic Theurge
Necro-Kinder : Warlock or paladin

The following posted interest but no concept : 
Scotley
Brother Allard

Did I miss anyone/Get something wrong?
*PS : That means 12 completed characters, with up to 7 more on the way.. Darimaus, you may wish to close recruiting and open a rogues gallery...*

*Also, while I was compiling this I noticed that Bloodweaver's berserker has spend 775,000 GP... we only get 760,000.*


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## Jemal (Apr 16, 2007)

My Updated Character (with Background)
[sblock=Whin Z. Roe]
Whin Z. Roe
Male Spellscale Fgtr1/Human Sorc6/E.Knight7/Monk1/Abjurant Champion5/
AL: LE  HT: 5'6"(11' enlarged) WT: 174(1392 enlarged) Age: 28  Hair: Silver, spiked Eyes: Red

*stats/AC/etc are assuming all buffs cast*

STR: 36 (+13) [17 Base + 6 Enhancement + 3 Level + 8 Arms + 2 size]
DEX: 22 (+6) [17 Base + 6 Enhancement + 1 Inherent - 2 size]
CON: 18 (+4) [13 Base + 6 Enhancement - 2 Racial + 1 Level]
INT: 15 (+2) [15 Base]
WIS: 15 (+2) [11 Base + 4 Enhancement ]
CHA: 30 (+10) [16 Base + 6 Enhancement +2 Racial + 1 Level + 5 Inherent]

HP: 166 (6d4+2d8+12d10+80) http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=975323
AC: 58 (10 Base + 6 Dex +10 Cha + 1 Class + 5 Deflection + 5 Natural Armour + 11 Armour + 9 Shield + 2 Luck - 1 size) [44 Flat Footed, 44 touch]
Saves: FORT: +24 (12 base + 4 con + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck)  REF: +21 (7 base + 6 dex + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck) WILL: +23  (13 base + 2 wis + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck)
Init: +6 (+6 dex).   Move : 60', 120' fly.

Bab: 16.  Grapple : +37  Trip : +17
Forcelance(Huge) : + 30/30/25/20/15, 4d6+21 damage. 
Claws : +28/28, 1d6+13 damage.
Full Flurry : +28/28/28/23/18/13, 3d6+20 damage(staff).


Skills(Total/Ranks):[94 Points] Concentration(+27/23), Know:Arcana(+25/23), Spellcraft(+27/23), Jump(+20/5), Tumble(+12/5), Spot(+7/5), Listen(+7/5), Apraise(+3/1cc), Use Magic Device(+11/1cc), 1 skill point left
*cc=cross class*


Feats: [8]  Combat Casting, Aesetic Mage, Somatic Weaponry, Twin Spell, Practical Metamagic(Twin), Sun School, Quicken Spell, Versatile Spellcaster
Bonus Feats: Retributive Spell(E.Knight), Improved Grapple(Monk), Deflect Arrows(Fighter)

Racial Features : +2 cha, -2 con.  Low-Light Vision, Blood Quickening. [Common Meditations : Astilabor(+20 Appraise, Eshcew Materials), Chronepsis(+20 Listen, Silent Spell), IO(+20 Spellcraft, Empower 3/day), Lendys(+20 Concentration, Still Spell)]
Class Features: Sorc Spellcasting (Level 17), Metamagic Specialist, Improved Unarmed Strike, Abjurant Armour(+5), Extended Abjuration, Swift Abjuration, Arcane Boost(+5), Martial Arcanist(N/A)

Spells (per day): CL 18
LVL 0 (6) - 9 - Light, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Stick, 
LVL 1 (9) - 5 - Magic Missile, Shield, Benign Transposition, True Strike, Ebon Eyes
LVL 2 (9) - 5 - Wraith Strike, See Invisibility, Dolorus Blow, Heroics, 1 more
LVL 3 (8) - 4 - Greater Mage Armour, Ray of the Python, Dolorus Blow, Ferocity of Sanguine Rage
LVL 4 (8) - 4 - Orb of Force, Orb of Acid, Dimension Door, Chain Missile
LVL 5 (8) - 4 - Arcane Fusion, Lightning Leap, Greater Blink, Greater Enlarge Person
LVL 6 (8) - 3 - Greater Anticipate Teleport, Superior Resistance, Greater Blink
LVL 7 (7) - 3 - Arcane Spell Surge, Energy Absorption, Greater Teleport
LVL 8 (5) - 2 - Greater Arcane Fusion, Moment of Presience

*Runestaff Spells, usable max 3/day each*
Cone of cold, continual flame, fireball, globe of invulnerability, hold monster, levitate, ligntning bolt, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, wall of force(5'radius hemisphere centered on caster).

Daily Cast Buffs : 
Greater Mage Armour (+11 Armour to AC), 36 hour duration
Energy Absorption (Resist:10 all energy types; can gain immunity/Heal half damage once- ends spell), 36 hour duration
Superior Resistance(+6 saves), 24 hour duration
Greater Enlarge Person(Enlarged), 18 hour duration
Moment of Presience (+18 to one roll), 18 hour duration


Languages: Common, Draconic, 2 more

Equipment: 760,000 GP
BOOKS : STR+1, Dex+1, CHA+4 (165,000)
ForceLance: Sizing RuneStaff of Speed & Power [+2] (85,300)
Belt of Strength +6 (36,000)
Storing Gloves of Dexterity +6 (66,000)
Circlet of Wisdom +4 (16,000)
Vest of Constitution +6 (36,000)
Cloak of Charisma +6 (36,000)
Amulet of Natural Armour +5 (50,000)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of Sustenance (2,500)
Strongarm Bracers (6,000)
Boots of Striding/Springing (5,500)
Ioun stone: +1 caster level (30,000)
Rod of Maximize (54,000)
Fiendish Wings (10,000)
2 Fiendish Legs (11,000)
2 Fiendish Arms (100,000)

700 GP

Background : 
Whin Zacharius Roe was born to human parents, Father a great General, Mother a powerful mage, both patriots.  They had been specifically bred together in the hopes of producing a powerful weapon for their country.  From the moment of his birth, the burning eyes and scaled skin let the powers that be know that they had suceeded.  Whin was raised not by parents, but by the country itself, his every want and need looked after as he was trained many hours a day.  He was outfitted with a Ring of Sustenance while still young, to maximize the time he could spend training.  As such, Whin does not eat or drink, neither as habit, courtesy, or for pleasure.  When he reached 13, he received a rather unusual surprise... A powerful devil had been summoned by the High Mage to bestow a present on the young prodigy, and Whin was taken away for a week.  When he returned, having recovered from the diabolic surgery, his arms and legs had been replaced, he had large bat wings, and any childish innocence he may have retained had been whiped away by the evil influences.  By the time he was 17, he could best his father in martial combat, and was nearly the equal of his mother in spellcasting.  

Over the next years, whenever he had spare time Whin would read through the extensive library on his quest for _more_.  He taught himself the basics of martial arts, and soon learned of secret ways to harness truley powerful abjuration spells, as well as various forms of instantaneous transportation.  He learned of other's like himself, of an entire Spellscale race, and set about learning all he could about them, attempting to fill in the holes he felt in himself.  He realized that he shared much with them.. Curiosity, drive, a love of magic, and he also learned of their sacred rituals, which he realized he had been performing for years without even knowing it.  Once he had learned what he could, he secretly destroyed the books to keep them from being used against him, and then continued with his training and work.  On his 20th birthday, Whin was presented with a speciall crafted gift, a "ForceLance" they called it, it was just like him... a custom combination of martial and magical power.

Soon thereafter, Whin was called to perform his duties for his country.  His first assignment was to destroy a tribe of trolls holed up in an old dwarven mine that the country wanted to reopen.  Next was a dragon; then a band of adventurers trying to 'overturn the corrupt and evil government'; a powerful Lich; a coven of hags; A Baron planning to take over; etc, etc. 

Most recently, he was sent to destroy a tribe of Ogre-magi.  When he got there, however, it had allready been destroyed, and all that remained was a rather unusual goblin.  Desiring to know who or what had done this, in order to discover if it posed a threat, he began questioning the goblin.  To his surprise, the goblin claimed it had been he, 'Meekor', that had destroyed the tribe.  Enraged by the goblin's incredulous lies, Whin moved to strike him down, only to discover much to his surprise that this goblin was, indeed, very skilled in the divine arts.  This being something Whin had no experience with, he decided instead to learn what he could about this 'Meekor', and his powers.  They travelled together for a short time, becoming strangely close allies for their divergent lives.. Both desired the same things above all else... power, and to be in control of their own lives.  When he returned to his country, Whin lied for the first time, omiting the existance of his friend... And of the God, Boccob, that he had come to worship.  A year later, Whin awoke during the night from a dream... He had seen Meekor, and a figure he knew to be Boccob, beckoning him to the Oceans, to an island.  After a week of the dream repeating every night, Whin decided to figure out some way of leaving, but as it turned out, he didn't have to.  The Fiendish being that his King (And parents, and most of his country) worshiped had decreed that all of the best warriors and mages were to be sent to sea, to deal with a problem that had arisen.  Though they did not tell him explicitely, Whin knew from his dream that this problem extended beyond their kingdom, beyond his parent's false god and his King's desires.  He also knew that on this quest, he would find true power.  

Appearance : Whin is a rather creepy looking individual.  His face is hollow and harsh, his scales seem angry, his eyes show a soul tainted by evil since birth, and his long, silver hair is spiked.  He wears no armour, and his clothing consists of Red&Black shorts and vest, revealing his fiendish appendages, which have been his so long that his scales now cover part of them, making them look as if they've always been a part of him.  Large Bat-like wings extend from his back, unhindered by the jewelry embroidered cloak he is so accustomed to wearing.  A pair of black gloves fit his hands like a second skin.
[/sblock]

[sblock=rathan]
I read your background and decided to throw a bit in about Meekor leading my character to Boccob.  If it's allright with you, I'm thinking Whin will look up to you as someone who speaks for Boccob, and as a kindred spirit who has been used in similar ways and wants the same things - Power and control.
[/sblock]


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

Thanks for the big list of charas and concepts Jemal.. keeps things in perspective..... and easier to keep track of heh.....

[sblock=Jemal] Sounds perfect... I have no quams with the background idea at all.. I'll have to check it out once I'm done posting this.... yea woah... read it.... nice... VERY nice I love how you linked them.... I'll have to edit mine slightly... though it's my own choice to do so.. to mention Whin.... yea I can see them making beautifull magic together to fuel thier lust for power..... muahahaha*coughcough* sorry heh [/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Apr 16, 2007)

Hmm! Both my ideas right now are "spy/infiltration" types.

Shapechangey is more versatile...but ninja is arguably better at the main mission.

I'm torn.


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

*tapes Shayuri back together* don't make me get the superglue man heh.... I would like to see the shapechanger myself... it might give you the edge with getting into places we may need to get into.... I think it's easier to pose as a guard than it is to sneak your way in.... IMHO.... so yea.. if my two cents count... shapechang-ish is the way *I'D* go

- Rathan


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## Jemal (Apr 16, 2007)

Shayuri - Shapechanging has always been a personal favourite of mine, though I must disagree with Rathan this time.  I think the Ninja would add something to the mix that's a bit more unique than a shapechanger.  That being said, it's ultimately about what you want.

Rathan - Cool.  I have one thing to say, though (And please don't take this the wrong way).  From a literary stand point, I think you use a few too many elipses (the dot-dot-dot's).  Perhaps try to replace some of them with comas or periods, but with that many dot's in a paragraph it looks more complex than it is.  
To put it another way... it's the written equivalent of William Shatner, with pauses every few words.


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## Voidrazor (Apr 16, 2007)

Jemal - My character is more of a high offense psi-gish than a pure psion. Funny how we've got a surplus of melee types when high level play generally favors pure spellcasters. Heck, I usually play full casters but wanted to do something different.

Anyway it may make sense for our characters to know each other. Mine's a minor noble from a country whose ruling class has hereditary ties to the drow. She is also part of a secretive cult, operating in many countries, that has an agenda that is essentially unknown to her. Both the country and the cult occasionally make use of enforcers, for various nefarious purposes.


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## Darimaus (Apr 16, 2007)

Alright, me thinks I'm going to max out the submissions at 20. I can take one more interested person. I think I'm going to accerate the vote into a more simplified system. I want everyone playing to post a single number. I don't really want elaberations or reasons, just simply post the number of characters you would feel comfortable in playing with in a single campaign. I will take any number from 5 to 20. Voting begins now.

I would accept everyone of you if I felt it were just up to me, considering it would keep the game plowing foreward in many dimensions based off of how active the PCs are. However, I do feel that the clutter on the thread may cause some discomfort to those who are playing, so I am going to gauge how much you guys are actually willing to put up with, and then make my decision.


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## Nephtys (Apr 16, 2007)

20

As a player I have no problem with 20 in a loose party, unless it would be overwhelming for the DM to manage that many complex characters.


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 16, 2007)

Salimesh is a solidly front-line combatant with several little tricks to help out others that aren't strictly front-line that find themselves in such a detrimental situation.  He's a team-player, so long as characters don't get too sold into "The Laws of the Universe," and is more than willing to do what needs to be done.

He's also got a somewhat complicated build (Being a Master of 9 and all), and is still awaiting review from the DM. 

And I'm all for a large group, the more people we have the more people I can bring into combat with War Master's Charge!


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## Avalon® (Apr 16, 2007)

20. The more the merrier


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

I'd go with 20 also.... the more people there are to interact with, the more rp gets done. The sheer size of this may cause the game to slow a bit to get to the end result, but who said things have to move THAT fast? If the DM wants to move things along, then he does so, simple as that...


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## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

10

My instincts suggest two groups of 10, but if everyone wants a party of 20, that'll be really interesting, and I'll stick around to see what it's like!    

Just a quick note for fellow players - I reworked my spell selection to focus on support, and I want to note that druid "ghetto heals" come with a drawback.  Rejuvenation Cocoon takes you out of the fight for two rounds and puts you in a force bubble for that time.  (You can still cast, draw weapons, drink potions, etc.)  I want people to know that now and resolve their feelings on it so it doesn't come as an unpleasant surprise later.  I don't intend to heal anyone who isn't in danger of dying, so this shouldn't be a big issue (presumably dying would mean being out for more than two rounds anyhow.)


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## Scotley (Apr 16, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> OK, just did a quick looksie
> Here's a list of Players who've posted characters, and what they're playing
> 
> 
> ...




Rough concept is a Bariaur Ranger 15/Fighter 4 Archer build. I should have draft up this afternoon or early tomorrow. It won't be nearly as optimized as some of the builds.


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## Shayuri (Apr 16, 2007)

20 will work if we're not all in the same group at the same time...at least not for very long. It's a great number though, if we form subteams with specific objectives. Then we can meet back up to RP afterwards. 20 in a command center, for example, but a team of 5 or so on a particular mission. Etc.

And I think you're right about ninja. I'm gonna give him a try. If he doesn't work out, I can always bring shapechanger in and retire ninja.

Plus, ninja has the virtue of already being  basically finished.


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> For Clerics (and other classes for which this matters), what are the deities we can use?  Are we stuck with those found in the PHB, Deities & Demigods, and the setting books, or do we have the freedom to create our own deities?  What about domains from WOTC books besides the PHB?




Sorry to quote myself, but this is critical to completing my character, and this might have been lost in the shuffle.

Also, a question for those more versed in finding loopholes than I:

[sblock=question]Is there a way someone without levels in Paladin can get Divine Grace (Cha mod applies to saves) - feat, prestige class ability, item?  If it's a prestige class, it needs to be one with full spellcasting.

Thanks![/sblock]


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## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Also, a question for those more versed in finding loopholes than I:
> 
> [sblock=question]Is there a way someone without levels in Paladin can get Divine Grace (Cha mod applies to saves) - feat, prestige class ability, item?  If it's a prestige class, it needs to be one with full spellcasting.
> 
> Thanks![/sblock]




[sblock]There are about three that I can think of.  One of the Eldeen Ranger orders, one of the OA champion PrCs, and a knight PrC from Dragonlance.  I'm sure there are more but I can't remember them offhand. Sadly, none of those advance external spellcasting that I'm aware of.  You could always be a nymph, though![/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]There are about three that I can think of.  One of the Eldeen Ranger orders, one of the OA champion PrCs, and a knight PrC from Dragonlance.  I'm sure there are more but I can't remember them offhand. Sadly, none of those advance external spellcasting that I'm aware of.  You could always be a nymph, though![/sblock]




[sblock]I absolutely need to keep the same spellcasting I have in order to be able to heal people - there's a very good reason for this that shall be revealed when I finally post the character.  I have a pretty nice Cha mod that I'd like to use for something.  Too bad the Practiced Spellcaster feat doesn't give me spells/day or spell levels.  Is there a feat that maybe does that?[/sblock]


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## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> [sblock]I absolutely need to keep the same spellcasting I have in order to be able to heal people - there's a very good reason for this that shall be revealed when I finally post the character.  I have a pretty nice Cha mod that I'd like to use for something.  Too bad the Practiced Spellcaster feat doesn't give me spells/day or spell levels.  Is there a feat that maybe does that?[/sblock]




[sblock]No, no feat.  That would be one heck of a broken feat.  There is a feat that lets you add Cha to will saves, but it only works against mind-affecting spells, so I consider it a waste.  Paladin, prestige paladin, and paladin-like PrCs are pretty much the only way to get Cha mod to saves.  Sadly, prestige paladin is UA and thus banned here, and Blackguard, Knight of the Crown, etc. do not advance existing casting.  Warpriest has special abilities that work off Cha, but only 1/2 casting progression.

If all you want is for Cha to be useful, consider taking one of the feats that gives you a frightful presence each time you cast a spell.  Or take Iaijutsu Focus, though that has very little to do with casting.[/sblock]

FWIW I'm just giving advice, so I don't mind if people read my discussion with Insight and chime in.  I've sblocked to avoid sidetracking the thread.


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## Rino (Apr 16, 2007)

my character (part of it anyway)

[sblock=scout]

Male Elven Rogue 5 / Scout 15
True Neutral
Strength	16	(+3)
Dexterity	32	(+11)
Constitution	24	(+7)
Intelligence	16	(+3)
Wisdom	12	(+1)
Charisma	10	(+0)
	Size:	Medium
Height:	5' 5"
Weight:	180 lb
Skin:	
Eyes:	
Hair:	

Total Hit Points: 147
Speed: 50 feet [scout] 
Armor Class: 14 = 10 +4 [dexterity] 
Touch AC: 14
Flat-footed: 14 [uncanny dodge] 
Initiative modifier:	+13	= +11 [dexterity] +2 [scout] 
Fortitude save:	+15	= 6 [base] +7 [constitution] +2 [scout] 
Reflex save:	+24	= 13 [base] +11 [dexterity] 
Will save:	+7	= 6 [base] +1 [wisdom] 
Attack (handheld):	+15/+10/+5	= 14 [base] +1 [strength] 
Attack (unarmed):	+15/+10/+5	= 14 [base] +1 [strength] 
Attack (missile):	+25/+20/+15	= 14 [base] +11 [dexterity] 
Grapple check:	+15/+10/+5	= 14 [base] +1 [strength] 
Light load:
Medium load:
Heavy load:
Lift over head:
Lift off ground:
Push or drag:
76 lb. or less
77-153 lb.
154-230 lb.
230 lb.
460 lb.
1150 lb
Languages:	Common Dwarven Elven Infernal 
Feats:
Dodge	
Mobility	
Point Blank Shot	
Precise Shot	
Rapid Shot	
Many Shot	
Quick Draw	
Spring Attack	
Other Feat 5	[hand-edit as needed]
Other Feat 9	[hand-edit as needed]
Weapon Focus x1	Weapon(s): comp. longbow
Traits: 
Skill Name	Key
Ability	Skill
Modifier	Ability
Modifier	Ranks	Misc.
Modifier
Appraise	Int	26 = 	+3	+23	
Balance	Dex*	18 = 	+11		+2 [tumble] 
Bluff	Cha	23 = 	+0	+23	
Climb	Str*	3 = 	+3		
Diplomacy	Cha	25 = 	+0	+23	+2 [bluff] 
Disable Device	Int	26 = 	+3	+23	
Disguise	Cha	0 = 	+0		
Escape Artist	Dex*	11 = 	+11		
Forgery	Int	3 = 	+3		
Gather Information	Cha	23 = 	+0	+23	
Heal	Wis	1 = 	+1		
Hide	Dex*	47 = 	+9	+23	+15
Intimidate	Cha	25 = 	+0	+23	+2 [bluff] 
Jump	Str*	13 = 	+3		+2 [tumble] +8 [speed 50] 
Listen	Wis	1 = 	+1		
Move Silently	Dex*	49 = 	+11	+23	+15
Open Lock	Dex	34 = 	+11	+23	
Ride	Dex	4 = 	+4		
Search	Int	26 = 	+3	+23	
Tumble	Dex*	27 = 	+4	+23	
Use Magic Device	Cha	23 = 	+0	+23	
* = check penalty for wearing armor
Bluff >=5 ranks gives +2 on disguise checks to act in character.
Search >=5 ranks gives +2 on survival checks while tracking.
Human:
•	Extra feat at first level (already included)
•	Four extra skill points at first level (already included)
•	One extra skill point at each additional level (already included)
Scout:
•	Core class from "Complete Adventurer"
•	Armor class bonuses after moving are not listed above.
•	Level 1: Skirmish (+1d6), trapfinding
•	Level 2: Battle fortitude +1, uncanny dodge
•	Level 3: Fast movement +10 feet, skirmish (1d6, +1 AC)
•	Level 4: Bonus feat (already included)
•	Level 5: Evasion, skirmish (+2d6, +2 AC)
•	Level 6: Flawless stride
•	Level 7: Skirmish (+2d6, +2 AC)
•	Level 8: Camouflage, bonus feat (already included)
•	Level 9: Skirmish (+3d6, +2 AC)
•	Level 10: Blindsense 30 feet
•	Level 11: Battle fortitude +2, fast movement +20 feet, skirmish (3d6, +3 AC)
•	Level 12: Bonus feat (already included)
•	Level 13: Skirmish (+4d6, +3 AC)
•	Level 14: Hide in plain sight
•	Level 15: Skirmish (+4d6, +4 AC)

Rogue:
•	Sneak Attack +3d6
•	Trapfinding
•	Evasion (level 2)
•	Trap Sense (level 3)
•	Uncanny Dodge (level 4)


Equipment (760k)
Amulet of Health +6 (36k)
Gloves of dex +6 (36k)
Mithril chain shirt +5 of greater silent moves and shadow (93,6k)
Mithril heavy steal shield +5 animated (50,02k)
Tomes: str +3, con +4, dex +4 (302,5k)
+3 Comp +3str longbow of shock (32.7k)
Quiver of Elhonna (1.8k)
Cloak of Ristance +5 and arachnida (46k)
Gem of true seeing (75k)
Ioun stone Clear Spindle (4k)
Lockpicking ring (3,5k)
Wand of cure serious wounds (11.25k)
Arrows, Cold Iron (20) [40 gp; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Silver (10) [30 gp; in weightless storage]
Arrows, Regular (40) [40 gp; in weightless storage]
[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]No, no feat.  That would be one heck of a broken feat.  There is a feat that lets you add Cha to will saves, but it only works against mind-affecting spells, so I consider it a waste.  Paladin, prestige paladin, and paladin-like PrCs are pretty much the only way to get Cha mod to saves.  Sadly, prestige paladin is UA and thus banned here, and Blackguard, Knight of the Crown, etc. do not advance existing casting.  Warpriest has special abilities that work off Cha, but only 1/2 casting progression.
> 
> If all you want is for Cha to be useful, consider taking one of the feats that gives you a frightful presence each time you cast a spell.  Or take Iaijutsu Focus, though that has very little to do with casting.[/sblock]
> 
> FWIW I'm just giving advice, so I don't mind if people read my discussion with Insight and chime in.  I've sblocked to avoid sidetracking the thread.




I don't mind anyone checking this out either   
[sblock]OK, how about attacking this from another angle?  

What I'm doing is trying to make sure my guy still qualifies for Hierophant, of which I only need one special ability, Divine Reach (touch spells become 30ft range spells).  Right now, I am Cleric 13, Hierophant 1 (I have 6LA tied up in templates).  Need 7th levels spells to get Hierophant, so I need to have Cleric 13 or the equivalent.

Buy maybe there's another way I can get a 30ft reach on touch spells (I know there's a metamagic feat, but it adds 2 spell levels, which isn't practical for something I need to use on a regular basis).  Is there maybe an item, feat, or PrC that gives 30ft range (or hell, 10ft range) on touch spells?

I do have two other options that I've found to resolve this issue, but one of them limits the number of people I can heal, and the other requires DM interpretation.[/sblock]


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

[sblock=Insight]heh.. I feel you on the Divine Reach there Insight.. I have it for meekor as it makes it SO much easier to heal those around you.... plus... alot of a cleric touch spells are also his damage spells.. and with meekors low HP's for this level.. wweelll I'm not TOO keen on rushing in for a 'tap on the sholder harm" move hehe... again I'm not versed on the prC's and the like so *I* personally don't know of a way to access the cha to saves thingie... good luck with it though! [/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> [sblock=Insight]heh.. I feel you on the Divine Reach there Insight.. I have it for meekor as it makes it SO much easier to heal those around you.... plus... alot of a cleric touch spells are also his damage spells.. and with meekors low HP's for this level.. wweelll I'm not TOO keen on rushing in for a 'tap on the sholder harm" move hehe... again I'm not versed on the prC's and the like so *I* personally don't know of a way to access the cha to saves thingie... good luck with it though! [/sblock]




[sblock=Rathan]Oh, the divine reach thing isn't just easier for me to heal.  I wouldn't be able to heal at all without it (well, I could use mass heals every time lol)[/sblock]


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

[sblock=Insight] 







> Oh, the divine reach thing isn't just easier for me to heal. I wouldn't be able to heal at all without it (well, I could use mass heals every time lol)




Care to enlighten me as to why you can't heal without it?.... I don't see why not.....[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> [sblock=Insight]
> 
> Care to enlighten me as to why you can't heal without it?.... I don't see why not.....[/sblock]




[sblock=Rathan]Maybe I should post my character, or at least what I have so far... it's kind of a mess.  Here's the basics.  He's a ghost, so even when manifested, he can't use touch spells per the SRD.  All the cure spells are touch (as well as other Cleric spells I need to be able to use on non-ethereal people).  So that's what I'm trying to get around.  The divine reach Hierophant ability would do that.  But in order to get Hierophant, I need to be Cleric 13 (or able to cast 7th levels spells).  Other than for divine reach, I don't really care about having Hierophant.  So, if I could find a way to get the reach ability some other way, I could ditch Hierophant and pick up 2 levels of Paladin.[/sblock]


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## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

[sblock=Insight] hmmmmm.. cool character concept.. good thing my chara has no quams with undead hehe.... and again I know of no other way to get around the reach thing without Heirophant.... save for the one you already mentioned which adds two levels to the spell you need to cast.... hmmm... wonder if anyone else will know....[/sblock]


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## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> [sblock=Insight] hmmmmm.. cool character concept.. good thing my chara has no quams with undead hehe.... and again I know of no other way to get around the reach thing without Heirophant.... save for the one you already mentioned which adds two levels to the spell you need to cast.... hmmm... wonder if anyone else will know....[/sblock]




[sblock]Um, you already mentioned how to get around it.  Reach spell.  Just take Divine Metamagic and you're set.  Tons of cha means you should have tons of turnings/day.[/sblock]


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 16, 2007)

Alrigt, here's my character. He's mostly done, still needs some work. Also still need to put up his Gold Dragon mount.

[sblock=Paladin]
Name: Munthrek Ux Darastrix Thurirl
Class: Paladin
Race: Dragonborn (human)
Alignment: LG
Age: 25
Weight: 280 Lbs
Height: 6’
Size: Medium
Gender: Male 
Level: 20
HP: 20d10 (96) + 140 = 236
(http://invisiblecastle.com/rolldice...astrix+Thurirl&r=1&d=19d10&n=&a=Roll+the+dice)
Experience: 

*Abilities* 
STR 24 (+7) (16 Base, +6 Belt, +2 Manual)
DEX 12 (+1) (14 Base, -2 Race)
CON 25 (+7) (15 Base, +2 Race, +6 Amulet, +2 Ioun Stone)
INT 15 (+2) (15 base)
WIS 10 (+0) (8 Base, +2 Tome)
CHA 26 (+8) (16 base, +5 Tome, +5 Lvl)


*Statistics* 
AC 36 (10 Base, 13 Armor, 7 Shield, 5 Natural, 1 Dex) (+2 Vs Dragon) 
FORT +26 (12 base, +6 Con, +8 Cha) 
REF +15 (6 Base, +1 Dex, +8 Cha) 
WILL +14 (6 Base, +8 Cha)

INIT +1
BAB  +20/+15/+10/+5
Speed: 20 Ft

*Melee*
+29 Holy Vorpal Long Sword +2 (1d8+9, 19-20 x2, +2d6 Vs. Evil, Decapitates on natural 20)
+29 Flaming Burst Lance +2 (1d8+9, x3, +1d6 Fire, +2d10 Fire on crit, x3 damage while charging)

DR 5/Magic
Light Fortification 25% Crit Failure 

*Feats *
Power Attack (1)
Mounted Combat (3)
Ride-by-Attack (6)
Spirited Charge (9)
Dragon Steed (12) (Draconomicon)
Divine Might (15) (Complete Warrior)
Divine Shield (18) (Complete Warrior)



*Racial Features* 
Heart Aspect (Breath Weapon 10d6, REF 27, every 1d4 rounds)
Immune to Frightful Presence
+2 Dodge AC Vs Dragons


*Class Features*
Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Turn Undead 11/Day, Special Mount, Remove Disease 5/week, Smite Evil 5/Day



*Skills* (2+Int) x 4 + (2+Int) x 19 = 92
Ride +24 (23 Ranks, +1 Dex)
Concentration +23 (16 Ranks, +7 Con)
Diplomacy +23 (15 Ranks, +8 Cha)
Heal +23 (+23 Ranks, +0 Wis)
Knowledge (Religion) +17 (15 ranks, +2 Int)



*Languages*
Common 
Celestial
Ignan
Draconic 

*Stuff*
85,805 GP Leftover

+2 Holy Vorpal Long Sword (162,315 GP)
+2 Flaming Burst Lance (32,310 GP)
Tome Cha+5 (read) (137,750 GP)
Tome Wis +2 (read) (55,000 GP)
Manual STR +2 (read) (55,000 GP)
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (50,000 gp)
Belt of Giant’s Strength +6 (36,000 gp)
Amulet of Health +6 (36,000 GP)
Ioun Stone (+2 Con) (8,000 GP)
+5 Light Fortification Heavy Steel Shield (36,170 GP)
+5 Full Plate of Invulnerability (65,650 GP)
[/sblock]

Also, can someone please check this over?


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]Um, you already mentioned how to get around it.  Reach spell.  Just take Divine Metamagic and you're set.  Tons of cha means you should have tons of turnings/day.[/sblock]




[sblock]I was going to use the Divine Ward feat from PHB2, which would have allowed me to select a target and use touch as ranged spells on this target for the next 24 hrs.  The downside to this option is that I would need to blow a turn attempt to create the effect, and a turn attempt each time I cast such a spell on the target.  It would almost be better to use Reach Spell, or Divine Metamagic (Reach Spell).  Both options kinda suck.  I guess I could pick maybe two people in the party to heal (I could get others with mass heals and the like), I could cast 7 spells per day if I didn't use my turn attempts for anything else.

The other option is to interpret the Ghost Touch property for armor such that I could deliver touch spells to nonethereal targets.  The FAQ implies that I should be able to do it, but doesn't say specifically.  Since the rules don't really look at things from an incorporeal creature's perspective, the Ghost Touch property assumes you are using it to hit an incorporeal creature, not the other way around.  I believe it works both ways...

According to the FAQ, 


			
				FAQ said:
			
		

> Ghost touch weapons allow corporeal wielders to strike incorporeal targets (and manifested ghosts) with no miss chance. They also allow manifested ghosts to make normal attacks (not incorporeal touch attacks) against targets on the Material Plane.




also...



			
				FAQ said:
			
		

> Like a ghost touch weapon, an incorporeal creature or manifested ghost can wear ghost touch armor and get an Armor Class benefit from it. Such a creature also can pass through solid objects while wearing ghost touch armor.




So, by inference, and this is completely my interpretation, a manifested ghost wearing ghost touch armor (a +3 mod by the way) would be able to "make normal attacks" as long as they were unarmed (since he would need a ghost touch weapon to make a melee attack with said weapon), or a touch attack.  And if you're thinking this would make Ghost Monks too powerful, remember this is a property applied to armor, which Monks can't wear and get the vast majority of their abilities.

Of course, the next question becomes, "Can Ghosts wearing Ghost Touch Armor use wands (or other items) that require touch?"  That's a much harder question.  You can't apply Ghost Touch to things that aren't weapons, armor, or shields, so I would say no based on the strict SRD interpretation (you can't put Ghost Touch on a wand).  However, if using a wand is considered a touch attack (and I would imagine if a spell is considered a touch attack, and the wand is based on said spell, maybe it should be as well), then you have an argument for the flip side of that.

My last possibility, and this is a bit of a reach, is the Ghostly Grasp feat from Libris Mortis.  It allows me to wear, wield, or otherwise use corporeal items as if I were not incorporeal.  If the DM interpreted this as being able to use touch spells on willing targets, I would be OK with that, but like I said, it's a bit of a reach.

Of course, if I am able to take over someone's body, I can cast all kinds of touch spells   
[/sblock]


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## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> [sblock]Of course, if I am able to take over someone's body, I can cast all kinds of touch spells
> [/sblock]




[sblock]I may be able to volunteer a brown bear for that purpose.  Or a shambling mound.[/sblock]


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## s@squ@tch (Apr 16, 2007)

Wow, I leave town for the weekend, and this thread blows up to 6 pages!!!  I'm amazed.

Anyhoo, I'll finish the crunchy, fluffy nature of my monk on page 1.  

Don't think I'll be able to get my AC up to 73 tho.


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]I may be able to volunteer a brown bear for that purpose.  Or a shambling mound.[/sblock]




[sblock=moritheil]Yay the amazing healing bear!  And I bet he couldn't make a Will save DC 30!  Probably not the shambling mound either.

Actually, I was considering taking out one of our enemies doing this, and at the same time benefitting the rest of the party.  But whatever works.

Maybe if I am always going to be able to use malevolence to get into something's corporeal body and heal people, well, that solves a lot of my problems.  I could get Leadership and make a cohort do it LOL.  But in any event, I can do a lot more with my build.[/sblock]


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## Darimaus (Apr 16, 2007)

Insight - Feel free to pick whatever diety you want.

So it looks like we got some overwhelming support for the 20 character thing. Sounds good to me, since everyone will get to play. Remember, characters need to be finished by friday. The Rogues gallery goes up tommorow.

I don't have time today to continue character checkup. It too will get done tommorow.


----------



## Brother Allard (Apr 16, 2007)

I'm looking seriously at archivist.  However, the class pretty much falls apart for me after level 11 and I'm evaluating potential PrCs.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 16, 2007)

Insight,

I hope you don't mind that I've got a healing machine in the works as well. I don't think we'll be "stepping on each other's toes" with up to 20 PCs -- especially since your character doesn't have toes to step on.   

[SBLOCK=Quick and Dirty Write-Up of Nastasia Sohne von Peter, Healer]
Race: Human
Class: Healer/20
Sources: Book of Exalted Deeds, Miniatures Handbook, Complete Warrior, Complete (Arcane or Divine, can't remember.)

```
STR: 10
DEX: 19
CON: 15
INT: 12
WIS: 30
CHA: 24
```

*AC:* 35 {36} (10 + 4 Dex + 12 Exalted + 5 Deflection + 4 Natural + {1 dodge})
*Hit Points:* 20dx+40

*Feats*
_1st level:_ Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty (bonus human), Nymph's Kiss (bonus Exalted)
_2nd level:_ Skill Focus: Heal (bonus Healer feat), Vow of Nonviolence (bonus Exalted)
_3rd level:_ Subduing Strike
_4th level:_ Vow of Peace (bonus Exalted)
_6th level:_ Reach Spell, Nimbus of Light (bonus Exalted)
_8th level:_ Stigmata (bonus Exalted)
_9th level:_ Sudden Maximize
_10th level:_ Gift of Faith (bonus Exalted)
_12th level:_ Spontaneous Healer, Holy Radiance (bonus Exalted)
_14th level:_ Intuitive Attack (bonus Exalted)
_15th level:_ Dash
_16th level:_ Vow of Abstinence (bonus Exalted)
_18th level:_ Dodge, Favoured of the Companions (bonus Exalted)
_20th level:_ Vow of Chastity (bonus Exalted)

*Abilities*
_Endure Elements_
_Exalted Strike_ -- all strikes are considered +5/good
_Sustenance_
+3 Exalted bonus on all saving throws
Mind Shielding
DR 10/evil
Energy Resistance 15 (against fire, cold, sonic, electricity, and acid)
_Freedom of Movement_
Heals 1 point of damage per hour
_True Seeing_
all strikes are subdual at no penalty
any manmade weapon striking Nastasia must make a Fortitude save vs. DC 22 or shatter, doing no damage
Spontaneously exchange prepared spells for _cure_ spells, up to 10 times per day
5' extra to movement
+2 Perfection bonus to Diplomacy
+4 to save DCs for non-damaging spells
+4 Exalted bonus to Diplomacy
+2 Circumstance bonus to Diplomacy & Sense Motive dealing with Good creatures
5' bright illumination, with shadowy illumination out another 5'
+2 Circumstance bonus to all CHA-based checks (does not stack with other Circumstance bonuses)
+1 to saves vs. spells and spell-like abilities
+1 skill point (in addition to bonus human skill point)
Can take temporary CON damage to heal damage to others -- 1 pt./level of target per 2 points of CON damage -- to one ally perpoint of CON damage taken. Each use lasts for one hour.
At will, can extended illumination to 10', shadowy to another 10', and deal 1d4 points of damage per round to any undead in that area
Uses WIS bonus rather than STR bonus for attack rolls with simple weapons
+4 Perfection bonus to Fort saves vs. poison and drugs ingested against her will
+4 Perfection bonus to Will saves vs. charms and phantasms
+1 luck bonus on any roll or check, once per day, when doing something good.
Couatl Companion
...and more to be listed

*Fortitude:* 17 -- 12 (base) + 2 (Con) + 3 (Exalted)
*Reflex:* 13 -- 6 (base) + 4 (Dex) +3 (Exalted)
*Will:* 25 -- 12 (base) + 10 (Wis) + 3 (Exalted)

Standard Save DC: 17 + level of spell (21 + level for non-damaging spells)

_Skills_
Concentration: 25 -- 23 (ranks) + 2 (CON)
Diplomacy: 39 -- 23 (ranks) + 6 (CHA) + 2 (Perfection) + 4 (Exalted) + 2 (Circumstance) + 2 (synergy)
Heal: 36 -- 23 (ranks) + 10 (WIS) + 3 (Skill Focus)
Knowledge (Religion): 24 -- 23 (ranks) + 1 (INT)
Knowledge (Nature): 24 -- 23 (ranks) + 1 (INT)
Sense Motive: 33 {35} -- 23 (ranks) + 10 (WIS) {+ 2 (Circumstance) vs. Good}
Spellcraft: 24 -- 23 (ranks) +1 (INT)
[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=And her travelling companion, Lord Chaddarcy]
*Race:* Couatl, 11 HD

```
Str: 20
Dex: 18
Con: 14
Int: 19
Wis: 19
Cha: 17
```

*AC:* 24 -- 10 + 4 Dex - 1 Size + 11 Natural
*Hit Points:* 11d8+22 (71 Hit Points)

*Feats*
1: Hover, Eschew Materials (racial bonus)
3: Purify Spell (_BoED_)
6: Arcane Preparation (_Comp. Mage_)
9: Sudden Maximize (_Comp. Arcane_)

*Abilities*
*Change Shape (Su):* He can assume the form of any Small or Medium humanoid.
*Constrict (Ex):* He deals 2d8+7 points of damage with a successful grapple check.
*Improved Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, Lord Chaddarcy must hit a creature of up to two size categories larger with its bite attack. He can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If ihewins the grapple check, he establishes a hold and can constrict.
*Poison (Ex):* Injury, Fortitude DC 16, initial damage 2d4 Str, secondary damage 4d4 Str. The save DC is Constitution-based.
*Psionics (Sp):* Effective caster level 9th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
At will—_detect chaos_, _detect evil_, _detect good_, _detect law_, _detect thoughts_ (DC 15), _invisibility_, _plane shift_ (DC 20)
*Spells:* Lord Chaddarcy casts spells as an 11th-level sorcerer. He can choose his spells known from the sorcerer list, the cleric list, and from the lists for the Air, Good, and Law domains. The cleric spells and domain spells are considered arcane spells for a couatl, meaning that he does not need a divine focus to cast them.
*Ethereal Jaunt (Su):* This ability works like the ethereal jaunt spell (caster level 16th).
*Telepathy (Su):* A couatl can communicate telepathically with any creature within 90 feet that has an Intelligence score. The creature can respond to the couatl if it wishes - no common language is needed.

*Spells Known* (_9/5/5/4/3/2_)
0 Level
1 Level
2 Level
3 Level
4 Level
5 Level
[/SBLOCK]


----------



## Rathan (Apr 16, 2007)

I have little goblin healing toes Kaf.. but still... not stepping on them if you ask me.... with 20 in a adventure.. I think we're gonna need all we can get heh


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 16, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> I have little goblin healing toes Kaf.. but still... not stepping on them if you ask me.... with 20 in a adventure.. I think we're gonna need all we can get heh




And given that all Nastasia does is heal (well, she can hit people for subdual damage...) you shouldn't worry about being outshined in any other field.


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## Jemal (Apr 16, 2007)

s@squ@tch said:
			
		

> Wow, I leave town for the weekend, and this thread blows up to 6 pages!!!  I'm amazed.
> 
> Anyhoo, I'll finish the crunchy, fluffy nature of my monk on page 1.
> 
> Don't think I'll be able to get my AC up to 73 tho.



Yes you can.  Heck, you can do an AC over 100 core.  If you'd like to try it, just say it and I'll give you some of the ideas I know of.  (Heck, straight up monk with 28 dex/26 wis, and the maxed bracers/ring/Amulet has AC 50, which is a pretty damn good start, without leaving the PHB/DMG.  Go nymph and you add Cha to it (Plus some good abilities and stat mods).  or go saint (+2 lvl adj) for some good stat mods and add wis as insight (So you'd add wis twice, meaning you'd want it high).


----------



## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> I have little goblin healing toes Kaf.. but still... not stepping on them if you ask me.... with 20 in a adventure.. I think we're gonna need all we can get heh




Well, the good news is I don't think I can "step" on anyone's toes... unless they want to come to the ethereal plane and party.


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## Insight (Apr 16, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Yes you can.  Heck, you can do an AC over 100 core.  If you'd like to try it, just say it and I'll give you some of the ideas I know of.  (Heck, straight up monk with 28 dex/26 wis, and the maxed bracers/ring/Amulet has AC 50, which is a pretty damn good start, without leaving the PHB/DMG.  Go nymph and you add Cha to it (Plus some good abilities and stat mods).  or go saint (+2 lvl adj) for some good stat mods and add wis as insight (So you'd add wis twice, meaning you'd want it high).




[sblock=Jemal]Since you clearly have a better grasp of the subtleties of some of these rules (including WOTC books I don't own), do you mind if I pick your brain for some optimization ideas?[/sblock]


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 16, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Yes you can.  Heck, you can do an AC over 100 core.  If you'd like to try it, just say it and I'll give you some of the ideas I know of.  (Heck, straight up monk with 28 dex/26 wis, and the maxed bracers/ring/Amulet has AC 50, which is a pretty damn good start, without leaving the PHB/DMG.  Go nymph and you add Cha to it (Plus some good abilities and stat mods).  or go saint (+2 lvl adj) for some good stat mods and add wis as insight (So you'd add wis twice, meaning you'd want it high).




And as a monk you get 3 good saves and evasion, which helps with those pesky attacks that are save based rather than attack based. The only thing better would be to somehow add mettle without giving up your monk AC progression (which can be done by taking a three levels of Hexblade and then putting on a monk's belt.) High AC, and no damage on most passed saving throws.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 16, 2007)

Darimaus,
Just curious on your pre-character-generation-item-creation rules effect an Artificer build? In particular the cost of creating magical items pre hand. I am thinking of putting together a Blast-ficer/Buff-ificer to help the large party with item creation and crowd control. 

-Blood


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## Jemal (Apr 16, 2007)

Kafkonia - True, or if he wants to, he could go Pious Templar(Complete Divine), which requires bab 5, know:religion 4, w.focus, and true believer.  LVL 1 gets Mettle, lvl 2 gets smite, lvl 3 gets dr1/- and Weapon Spec.  Also they have max bab, good fort+will, and minor spellcasting.  If he goes with 2 paladin, 15 monk, 3 pious templar, and takes the Aesetic Kngiht feat(Complete Adventurer) and the Monk's Belt, he's got Divine Grace, Mettle, Improved Evasion, DR1/-, W.Spec, lvl 20 monk AC/Unarmed damage, lvl 20 paladin smiting, and everything else up to that point.

[sblock=Insight] - Sure, anything in particular you're looking for, or just general ideas?[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Apr 16, 2007)

S@squ@tch - not sure if this works for you, but I was just talking to my roomie and he mentioned something.  
If you took a monk 12/Pal3/Sorc4/Pious Templar1, Aesetic Mage, and Aesetic Knight, you could make CHA your main stat, adding it to both AC and Saves, as well as Smite attack(damage would be +15).  You'd have good ac, improved evasion, mettle, Greater Flurry, BAB 15, base saves 14/10/15 + stats + resistance + cha.

Like I said, not sure if it's for you (It requires dropping about half of your monk levels, and adds spellcasting), but it's a thought.


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## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

More healing, PLEASE!    I welcome any and all efforts to add to the list of healing types.

Players playing healing characters:
Rathan
Insight
Kafkonia

Players playing characters that can heal but might be more optimal doing other things:
moritheil (backup)
Lord_Raven88 (possibly; theurge)
Necro_Kinder (backup)

Counting each backup healer as 1/2 a healer, we have 4.5 healers out of 20 chars.  That falls short of the theoretical 1/4 of a party that should be healers.

Necro_kinder:
[sblock]You have two amulets; you might want to combine those.[/sblock]



			
				Insight said:
			
		

> [sblock=moritheil]Yay the amazing healing bear!  And I bet he couldn't make a Will save DC 30!  Probably not the shambling mound either.
> 
> Actually, I was considering taking out one of our enemies doing this, and at the same time benefitting the rest of the party.  But whatever works.
> 
> Maybe if I am always going to be able to use malevolence to get into something's corporeal body and heal people, well, that solves a lot of my problems.  I could get Leadership and make a cohort do it LOL.  But in any event, I can do a lot more with my build.[/sblock]




[sblock]Yeah, I've been avoiding Leadership, but if you have such a high Cha, you may want to take it.  Or you could just use Transdimensional spell and resign yourself to the fact that all your spells are going to be a level higher.  (Or Divine Metamagic: transdimensional . . . )[/sblock]


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 16, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> S@squ@tch - not sure if this works for you, but I was just talking to my roomie and he mentioned something.
> If you took a monk 12/Pal3/Sorc4/Pious Templar1, Aesetic Mage, and Aesetic Knight, you could make CHA your main stat, adding it to both AC and Saves, as well as Smite attack(damage would be +15).  You'd have good ac, improved evasion, mettle, Greater Flurry, BAB 15, base saves 14/10/15 + stats + resistance + cha.
> 
> Like I said, not sure if it's for you (It requires dropping about half of your monk levels, and adds spellcasting), but it's a thought.




If you're going that route, take the Stalwart Sorcerer alternate class ability from _Complete Mage_. With only 4 levels of sorcerer you won't want a familiar anyway, and in exchange for that and giving up one spell at your highest level you get +2 HP per sorcerer level, and weapon focus with one martial weapon. It's too bad UA isn't allowed, this synergizes nicely with Battle Sorcerer.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 16, 2007)

Kafkonia said:
			
		

> If you're going that route, take the Stalwart Sorcerer alternate class ability from _Complete Mage_. With only 4 levels of sorcerer you won't want a familiar anyway, and in exchange for that and giving up one spell at your highest level you get +2 HP per sorcerer level, and weapon focus with one martial weapon. It's too bad UA isn't allowed, this synergizes nicely with Battle Sorcerer.




Don't know Stalwart Sorc, but I would vote for Metamagic Sorc.  IMHO, what you really want is some way to progress those caster levels.  Monk 12 seems excessive - why the huge investment in it?  Is there some reason monk/mage PrCs won't work?


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Don't know Stalwart Sorc, but I would vote for Metamagic Sorc.  IMHO, what you really want is some way to progress those caster levels.  Monk 12 seems excessive - why the huge investment in it?  Is there some reason monk/mage PrCs won't work?




Well, to start with, the original poster was building a monk, and Jemal and I are just providing suggestions on "power-ups" -- so going monk/mage PrC is probably completely outside of what S@squ@tch wants. 

Of course, the real fun is in developing a character whose backstory explains the class/feat/prestige classes selected. Otherwise they're just numbers on a page, and for that you might as well play Progress Quest.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 17, 2007)

Actually, my character has a soulmeld that can heal in a pinch and I think zeb.hillard's character can heal in combat if he took the healing maneuvers from the Devoted Spirit school.

[sblock= Insight] I offer Therin's body as a vessel as long as your char doesn't use him during combat.[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Actually, my character has a soulmeld that can heal in a pinch and I think zeb.hillard's character can heal in combat if he took the healing maneuvers from the Devoted Spirit school.
> 
> [sblock= Insight] I offer Therin's body as a vessel as long as your char doesn't use him during combat.[/sblock]




[sblock=Avalon]Mmmm... vessel...  actually, that's pretty much the point.  But I think I'm going to use bad guys as targets initially.  Kills two birds with one stone.[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]Yeah, I've been avoiding Leadership, but if you have such a high Cha, you may want to take it.  Or you could just use Transdimensional spell and resign yourself to the fact that all your spells are going to be a level higher.  (Or Divine Metamagic: transdimensional . . . )[/sblock]




[sblock=moritheil]Unfortunately, transdimensional won't solve my problem.  It doesn't change the fact that I have to touch people to heal them.  In fact, it wouldn't do much of anything LOL.[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=Insight] - Sure, anything in particular you're looking for, or just general ideas?[/sblock]




[sblock=Jemal]Not sure.  This is what I'm looking at right now.  Without posting the entire thing: Human Evolved (x2) Ghost Cleric 10, Paladin 2, Monk 1.  I'm worried that a Cleric 10 is gonna kind of suck.  I'm picking up Practiced Spellcaster, so I'd be Caster Level 13, but I'd be stuck at level 5 spells.

The reason I picked up Monk and Paladin was for the AC (Monk) and the saves (Paladin).  I have a Monk's Belt, so I may not need the level in Monk.  It doesn't appear to be giving me any benefit other than flurry of blows, stunning fist, and improved unarmed strike, all of which suck at this level anyway.

My AC sucks: 49/36 touch/46 ff.  My saves are OK: +31/+27/+36.  I won't be able to hit anyone with a BAB of +8, though, so I'd be pretty useless offensively.

Do you think it's worth it at this point to keep trying to develop this guy?  I'm not sure what else to do with him.[/sblock]


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## Voidrazor (Apr 17, 2007)

Insight - Even if Ghost Touch armor doesn't work, Ghost Touch gauntlets probably would. For ranged options, getting your cross class usage of the UMD skill for a wand of Spectral Touch might be the best way to go. Or if you used the Divine Meta route, Liber Mortis has an item called a Nightstick for 7,500gp that provides 4 extra turn attempts a pop.


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## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Voidrazor said:
			
		

> Insight - Even if Ghost Touch armor doesn't work, Ghost Touch gauntlets probably would. For ranged options, getting your cross class usage of the UMD skill for a wand of Spectral Touch might be the best way to go. Or if you used the Divine Meta route, Liber Mortis has an item called a Nightstick for 7,500gp that provides 4 extra turn attempts a pop.




I think I'm going to hope to use malevolence to take over someone's body and deliver touch attacks that way.  Seems to be the path of least resistance.  I also have a feat that lets me use touch attacks at range on a selected target at the expense of some turn attempts.

I may not end up sticking with ghost, though.  It's a cool idea, but +5 LA might end up being too much to swallow.


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## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Actually, my character has a soulmeld that can heal in a pinch and I think zeb.hillard's character can heal in combat if he took the healing maneuvers from the Devoted Spirit school.




And then there's a couple of us playing defensive characters who, hopefully, won't really need healing.


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## Shayuri (Apr 17, 2007)

You know...my AC is 39 when I buff with Mage Armor, people. You don't HAVE to have AC's in the high 50's-100's. 

Similarly, I have +28 to hit. I have no chance of hitting an optimized PC, but that doesn't mean I can't hit ECL 20 threats.

Remember, we're not fighting -each other.-


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## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> [sblock=Jemal]Not sure.  This is what I'm looking at right now.  Without posting the entire thing: Human Evolved (x2) Ghost Cleric 10, Paladin 2, Monk 1.  I'm worried that a Cleric 10 is gonna kind of suck.  I'm picking up Practiced Spellcaster, so I'd be Caster Level 13, but I'd be stuck at level 5 spells.
> 
> The reason I picked up Monk and Paladin was for the AC (Monk) and the saves (Paladin).  I have a Monk's Belt, so I may not need the level in Monk.  It doesn't appear to be giving me any benefit other than flurry of blows, stunning fist, and improved unarmed strike, all of which suck at this level anyway.
> 
> ...




[sblock=insight] Well first off, where's evolved from? that's one i don't know.  Also, practiced spellcaster is +4, so you'd be caster lvl 14.[/sblock]


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## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> You know...my AC is 39 when I buff with Mage Armor, people. You don't HAVE to have AC's in the high 50's-100's.
> 
> Similarly, I have +28 to hit. I have no chance of hitting an optimized PC, but that doesn't mean I can't hit ECL 20 threats.
> 
> Remember, we're not fighting -each other.-




No, we're fighting beings that are threatening the gods... If the God's are scared enough to join all of their forces, then i'm scared enough to shift gears upwards.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 17, 2007)

That's fine. I just wanted to reassure peeps that it wasn't -necessary-. 

I hope.

*gulp*


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## Kafkonia (Apr 17, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> That's fine. I just wanted to reassure peeps that it wasn't -necessary-.
> 
> I hope.
> 
> *gulp*




I'll protect you, Shayuri. And hopefully we'll have better results than the last time we battled an existence-threatening entity from beyond space and time.


----------



## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=insight] Well first off, where's evolved from? that's one i don't know.  Also, practiced spellcaster is +4, so you'd be caster lvl 14.[/sblock]




[sblock=Jemal]Evolved is from Libris Mortis.  It's an LA+1 template that's stackable.  I get +2 Str, +2 Cha, one spell-like ability (picked from a list), and Fast Healing 3 from each time I take it.[/sblock]


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## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

[sblock=insight] Well, I can't find our copy of libris mortis right now, so I'll take your word on the stackable template.  
OK, easiest way to do this since i don't know your character, is to just state everything I think (Regardless of how obvious).  take a high charisma, b/c it gives you deflection AC(from ghost), and Saves(Paladin).  Also if you stay ghost, come up with a hard-to-solve reason for being a ghost (your unfinished business/etc), so it doesn't happen(Which would mean game over 4 character).  Put your lowest stats into str/con, b/c they'll be unused (Dex will still be AC, init, and reflex saves).
Cha and Wis will obviously be your prime stats.

Gear is a bit tricky- It either has to be ghost touch, or buried with your corpse (2d4 items max).

Now, as for the levels - I'd drop one of the evolved's(they're not doing you all that much), and up cleric to 11 for 6th lvl spellcasting (And a caster level of 15).
OR, drop the Monk for cleric, b/c with your 50% miss chance, that'll be worth more than the wis to ac.  Then you can buy Actual Armour(ghost touch), and make up most of the AC difference. (Clerics don't mind armour).  
You'd probably want Mithril +5 Ghost Touch(either chain shirt or Breastplate, depending on your dex mod).  It costs same as a +6 bracer, and gives you the option of adding armour enhancements.  (AND, w/ghost touch it doesn't have to be one of your '2d4' corpse items.)
AC: 10 base +Cha Deflection, + 6/5Dex, +9/10 armour, and a +5 nat armour vest (use amulet for wis item) = 30+charisma.

*NOT done, WILL Edit more in, have to go for a little while*
[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=insight] Well, I can't find our copy of libris mortis right now, so I'll take your word on the stackable template.
> OK, easiest way to do this since i don't know your character, is to just state everything I think (Regardless of how obvious).  take a high charisma, b/c it gives you deflection AC(from ghost), and Saves(Paladin).  Also if you stay ghost, come up with a hard-to-solve reason for being a ghost (your unfinished business/etc), so it doesn't happen(Which would mean game over 4 character).  Put your lowest stats into str/con, b/c they'll be unused (Dex will still be AC, init, and reflex saves).
> Cha and Wis will obviously be your prime stats.
> 
> ...




[sblock=Jemal]I'm dropping Monk 1 because it's not doing anything for me, and adding Cleric 11.  I'm think of keeping the Monk's Belt and going with Bracers of Armor +8.  I've posted the rest below if you want to see.
[/sblock]

[sblock=working version]

Note: this is not quite done.  I still need to pick a deity and get the two domain granted powers (suggestions here are greatly appreciated).  I also have not chosen skills (like that matters LOL).  I also have some cash left to spend.

*ZAUTH THE SOJOURNER [ECL 20] 200,000/210,000xp
Male Human Evolved (x2) Ghost Cleric 11, Paladin 2
LG Medium Undead (Augmented Humanoid, Incorporeal)*
*Init* +3; *Senses* Darkvision 60ft, Listen +11, Spot +11
*Languages* Common, Draconic, Elven. 
*AC* 49, Touch 36, FF 46 (+14 Deflection, +3 Dex, +8 Wis, +1 Item, +8 Armor, +5 Natural).  
*HP* 75
[sblock=Rolls]12d12+12=75[/sblock]
*Fort* +29, *Ref* +25, *Will* +34; *Immunities* Mind-affecting, poisons, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, death effects, critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, energy drain, ability score damage (Str, Dex, Con only), fatigue, exhaustion, massive damage, any effect that requires a Fort save (that does not also affect objects; *Special* 50% chance to ignore magical attacks from the Material Plane (not including force effects or ghost touch attacks)
*Spd* 30ft fly (Perfect)
*Melee* Incorporeal Touch Attack (+12/+7 atk, 1d8 & 1d4 ability dmg (any); crit 20/x2) 
*Ranged* Ranged Touch Attack (+12/+7 atk, dmg varies; crit 20/x2)
*Space* 5ft; *Reach* 5ft
*Base Attack* +9; *Grapple* +9
*Attack Options*: Smite Evil 1/day
*Divine Spellcasting*: (CL 13; 6x0th, 7(+1)x1st, 6(+1)x2nd, 6(+1)x3rd, 4(+1)x4th, 3(+1)x5th, 2(+1)x6th
*Ability Scores* Str 17, Dex 17, Con N/A, Int 15, Wis 27, Cha 38
[sblock=Rolls]17, 15, 15, 13, 13, 11[/sblock]
[sblock=Modifiers]+4 Str, +8 Cha from Templates, +1 Wis, +2 Cha  from Level Gains, +4 Dex, +11 Wis, +11 Cha from Items.[/sblock] 
*SQ* Aura of Good (13), Detect Evil at will, Divine Grace, Divine Spellcasting (Domains: X and Y), Domain Granted Abilities (entry), Draining Touch, Fast Healing 6, Lay on Hands (28hp/day), Malevolence, Manifestation, Rejuvenation, Smite Evil 1/day (+12 atk, +2 dmg), Spell-like Abilities, Turn Resistance +4 (17HD), Turn Undead (17/day, 1d20+14 Turning Check, 2d6+25 HD)
*Feats* Ability Focus (Malevolence), Divine Metamagic (Empowered; CDiv), Divine Ward (PHB2), Practiced Spellcaster (Cleric), Quicken Manifestation (LM), Sacred Boost (CDiv)
*Skills* entry.  From Ghost - +8 to Hide, Listen, Search, and Spot (added above).

*Draining Touch (Su)*: When Zauth hits a living target with his incorporeal touch attack, he drains 1d4 points from any one ability score he selects. On each such successful attack, Zauth heals 5 points of damage. Against ethereal opponents, Zauth adds his Strength modifier to attack rolls only. Against nonethereal opponents, Zauth adds his Dexterity modifier to attack rolls only.
*Malevolence (Su)*: Once per round, while ethereal, Zauth can merge his body with a creature on the Material Plane. This ability is similar to a magic jar spell (Caster Level 13), except that it does not require a receptacle. To use this ability, Zauth must be manifested and he must try move into the target’s space; moving into the target’s space to use the malevolence ability does not provoke attacks of opportunity. The target can resist the attack with a successful Will save (DC 31). A creature that successfully saves is immune to that Zauth’s malevolence for 24 hours, and Zauth cannot enter the target’s space. If the save fails, Zauth vanishes into the target’s body.
*Manifestation (Su)*: Zauth dwells on the Ethereal Plane and, as an ethereal creature, he cannot affect or be affected by anything in the material world. When Zauth manifests, he partly enters the Material Plane and becomes visible but incorporeal on the Material Plane. While manifested, Zauth can be harmed only by other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, or spells, with a 50% chance to ignore any damage from a corporeal source. Zauth can pass through solid objects at will, and his own attacks pass through armor. While manifested, Zauth always moves silently. Zauth can strike with his touch attack or with a ghost touch weapon. While manifested, Zauth remains partially on the Ethereal Plane, where he is not incorporeal. A manifested ghost can be attacked by opponents on either the Material Plane or the Ethereal Plane. Zauth’s incorporeality helps protect him from foes on the Material Plane, but not from foes on the Ethereal Plane. 
When a spellcasting ghost is not manifested and is on the Ethereal Plane, its spells cannot affect targets on the Material Plane, but they work normally against ethereal targets. When Zauth manifests, his spells continue to affect ethereal targets and can affect targets on the Material Plane normally unless the spells rely on touch. A manifested ghost’s touch spells don’t work on nonethereal targets. 
Zauth has two home planes, the Material Plane and the Ethereal Plane. He is not considered extraplanar when on either of these planes.
*Rejuvenation (Su)*: In most cases, it’s difficult to destroy a ghost through simple combat: The "destroyed" spirit will often restore itself in 2d4 days. Even the most powerful spells are usually only temporary solutions. A ghost that would otherwise be destroyed returns to its old haunts with a successful level check (1d20 + 13) against DC 16. 
*Spell-like Abilities*: 1/day – Greater Dispel Magic and Haste (CL 13; SDC 29)
*Telekinesis (Su): As the telekinesis spell, CL 13.  Zauth must wait 1d4 rounds between uses of this ability.

Gear: 
Amulet of Natural Armor +5 (Throat slot; 50,000gp)
Bracers of Armor +8 (Arms slot; 64,000gp)
Cloak of Resistance +5 (Shoulder slot; 25,000gp)
Crown of the Latent Emperor (Head slot; +6 enhancement bonus to Wis and Cha, also powers of Circlet of Mages, Circlet of Rapid Casting, and Circlet of Solace (MIC); 134,500gp)
Gloves of Dexterity +4 (Hands slot; 16,000gp)
Monk’s Belt (Waist slot; 13,000gp)
Ring of Undead Mysticism (Ring 1 slot; as Ring of Mystic Healing and Ring of Positive Protection (MIC); 45,250gp)

Used: 
Tome of Leadership & Influence +5 (137,500gp)
Tome of Understanding +5 (137,500gp)

Wealth: 139,600gp 
[/sblock]

[sblock=concerns]
I'm concerned about the following items:

1.  He is effectively a 13th level caster in a level 20 game.  I'm worried that a lot of his spells are going to be ineffective against the bad guys,  If all he does is heal, fine, but that's just boring.  I've got a +13 to penetrate spell resistance, which almost certainly most creatures we fight will have.
2.  Healing ability.  Being incorporeal, I can't use touch spells directly on any targets, not even friendly ones.  That means no cure spells, unless they are mass cures.  The best way for me to deal with this is to use Malevolence to take over someone's body and use them to deliver touch spells.  Alternately, I can use Divine Ward to cast touch spells at range, but I have to choose maybe one or two targets and spend turn attempts not only to designate each target ahead of time (it takes 10 mins to prep for each target), but also a turn attempt to cast each touch spell at range.
3.  Low HP.  Not much I can do about that, having no Con score.  The 50% miss chance should mitigate that somewhat, and if he gets in trouble, he can also un-manifest and head to the Ethereal to heal up.
4.  Low BAB.  I won't be able to hit anything with my spells.  Even with a touch attack, I've got a +11 to hit.  I've got maybe a 50/50 shot at hitting the most worthless Lvl 20 touch ACs.[/sblock]*


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## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

[sblock=insight] Yeah, that works.  Though I'm not sure if the +2 cha /fast heal +3 is worth another level.  Having fast heal in the first place doesn't matter how much you have, b/c it pretty much means you full heal between fights.  SO, the extra LA is pretty much giving you +1 AC +1 saves.

So as it stands, with +5 nat armour, +8 Bracers, Monk's belt, your AC should be(According to your listed stats)... 10 base + ? dex + 8 Wis + 13 deflection + 5 nat armour + 8 armour + 1 monk = 45 + dex.

That's a pretty good AC, I'd say if your AC is 50+ at this level, it counts as "High AC".  Also with those saves being damn good, you don't have to worry about that.  I'm not sure if there's really much more tweaking we can do at this point... 

OK, thought about it, and if you want to boost your healing, Complete divine has three feats that could help : Augment Healing, Sacred boost(which helps the other healers, too), and Sacred Healing.  If you don't have the book, I'll post what they do later.  GTG.
[/sblock]


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## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=insight] Yeah, that works.  Though I'm not sure if the +2 cha /fast heal +3 is worth another level.  Having fast heal in the first place doesn't matter how much you have, b/c it pretty much means you full heal between fights.  SO, the extra LA is pretty much giving you +1 AC +1 saves.
> 
> So as it stands, with +5 nat armour, +8 Bracers, Monk's belt, your AC should be(According to your listed stats)... 10 base + ? dex + 8 Wis + 13 deflection + 5 nat armour + 8 armour + 1 monk = 45 + dex.
> 
> ...




I posted the working version above.  Check it out and let me know what you think.  I'm not against totally scrapping this idea if it's going to make me ineffective.

EDIT: I need to get my Cha as high as I can.  The Save DC against my Malevolence ability is 17 + Cha mod.  If this is going to be one of the main ways I can heal people, I need to be able to do it on a fairly regular basis.  I'm not altogether sure a 31 DC Will Save is going to be enough.


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## Unkabear (Apr 17, 2007)

Alright I have spent quite a bit of money.  Truth be told though he won't use the majority of it I feel that my character is a utilitarian, he would have made a good Sprite Scout (perhaps even attaining the rank of Gold Dragon).  And for those that are looking yes he has four rings, but the lockpicking & water breathing rings would be cept aside till he might need them.  



Grift
[sblock]
*Grift*
*Race*: Pixie
*Level*: (ecl+4, Rogue 16)
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good
*Size*: Small
*Height*: 2 1/2’
*Weight*: 30lbs
*Speed*: 20’ walk 60’ fly good maneuverability
*Type*: Fey

*Str*   10 +0
*Dex *  26 +8
*Con *  16 +3
*Int *   20 +5
*Wis *  20 +5
*Cha *  19 +4

*BAB * +12/+7/+2   Ranged  +20/+15/+10 Grapple +8

*AC * 38 = 10 + 8 armor + 8 dex + 1 small + 5 deflection + 6 natural armor
Damage reduction 10/cold iron,  spell resistance equal to 31
*HP * 103 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=970194 

*Fort* 8 = 5 + 3
*Ref* 20 = 10 + 8 + 2(Rogues Vest)
*Will* 10 = 5 + 5

*Weapons & Damage*
+3 RFDP Small Light Crossbow +24/+19/+14 1d6+7 19-20x2 80ft
+3 DPM Small Short Sword +23/+18/+13 1d4+3 19-20x2 (True Death Crystal)
Dagger Thrown +20/+15/+10 1d3 19-20x2
SA 8d6 (1d6 Rogues Vest, 1d6 Deadly Precision = 10d6)


```
[B]Skills[/B]	                    total		ranks		skill mod	misc		synergy
									
Bluff (Cha)	              [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Decipher Script (Int)	      [B]15[/B]	=	10	+	5	+		+
Diplomacy (Cha)	              [B]4[/B]	        =		+	4	+		+
Disable Device (Int)	      [B]24[/B]	=	19	+	5	+		+
Escape Artist (Dex)	      [B]18[/B]	=	10	+	8	+		+
Gather Information (Cha)      [B]14[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+
Hide (Dex)	              [B]33[/B]	=	19	+	8	+	6	+
Intimidate (Cha)	      [B]16[/B]	=	10	+	4	+		+	2 Bluff
Listen (Wis)	              [B]26[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	2	+
Move Silently (Dex)	      [B]29[/B]	=	19	+	8	+	2	+
Open Lock (Dex)	              [B]27[/B]	=	19	+	8	+		+
Search (Int)	              [B]33[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	9	+
Sense Motive (Wis)	      [B]26[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	2	+
Sleight of Hand (Dex)	      [B]20[/B]	=	10	+	8	+		+	2 Bluff
Spot (Wis)	              [B]35[/B]	=	19	+	5	+	11	+
Tumble (Dex)	              [B]17[/B]	=	9	+	8	+		+
Use Magic Device (Cha)	      [B]23[/B]	=	19	+	4	+		+
Use Rope (Dex)	              [B]8[/B] 	=		+	8	+		+
			240 Total Skill Points
```


*Magic Items*	                                                   Cost & 	Book

*Amulet of Natural Armor +5 & protection +5*	              125,000	DMG 246
*Bracers of Armor +8*	                                         64,000	DMG 250
*Rogues Vest*	                                                      18,000	MIC 130
*Gauntlet of Infinite Blades*	                                           6,500	MIC 101
*Crystal Mask of Insight*	                                         20,000	MIC 91
*Ring of Regeneration*	                                         90,000	DMG 232
*Gwaerons belt*	                                                      21,000	MIC 109
*Gwerons Boots*	                                                        6,000	MIC 109
*Greater Truedeath Crystal*	                                         10,000	MIC 66
*+3 Deadly Precision Metaline Shortsword*	                72,310	
*+3 Revealing Force Deadly Precision Light Crossbow*	   98,335	
*Everfull Mug*	                                                          200	MIC 160
*Everlasting Rations*	                                                          350	MIC 160
*Personal Oasis*	                                                        4,600	MIC 168
*Hewards Handy Haversack*	                                           2,000	DMG 259
80 cases of crossbow bolts		
*Wand of shatter*	                                                        4,500	DMG 246
*Wand of Knock*	                                                        4,500	DMG 246
*Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds*	                              4,500	DMG 246
*Wand of fireball (5th)*	                                         11,250	DMG 246
*10 exploding spikes *                                                      15,000 MIC 160
*Rod of Bodily restoration*	                                           3,100	MIC 173
*Thorn Pouch*	                                                        4,400	MIC 188
*Bag of Boulders*	                                                        1,400	MIC 150
*Bag of Flames*	                                                        3,500	MIC 151
*Blast Globes*	                                                        8,000	MIC 152
*Harrow Rod*	                                                      14,000	MIC 162
*2 Orbs of Environmental Adaptaion*	                              4,000	MIC 166
*Orb of mental renewal*	                                           3,100	MIC 167
*Rod of Force*	                                                      60,000	MIC 173
*Survival Pouch*	                                                        3,300	MIC 187
*Ring of Freedom of Movement*	                             40,000	DMG 232
*Ring of Waterbreathing*	                                           6,000	MIC 128
*Bag of Holding Type 4*	                                           10,000	DMG 248
*Bag of tricks (gray)*	                                              900	DMG 248
*Belt of Hidden Pouches*	                                           5,000	MIC 74
*Blindfold of True Darkness*	                                           9,000	MIC 75
*Lockpicking Ring*	                                                        3,500	MIC 114
                                                                    Total	757,245


*Eq*
Dagger
Candle
Chalk 3 pieces
Flint & Steel
Mirror Small Steel
Oil (1-pint flask)(x2)
Sewing Needle
Whetstone
Masterwork Thieves Picks
Ever Burning Torch
Explorers Outfit


*feats * 
Point Blank Shot (lvl1), Precise shot (lvl3), Weapon Focus Light Crossbow (lvl6), Crossbow Sniper (lvl9), Rapid Reload (lvl12), Dead Eye Shot(lvl15), Savvy Rogue (rogue Spec Abil 16), Dodge (racial bonus), Weapon Finesse (racial bonus)

*rogue special abilities*
Improved Evasion, Crippling Strike, Feat, Sneak Attack 8d6, Trap sense +5, Improved Uncanny Dodge, Evasion

*Racial Abilities*
Greater Invisibility (Su) A pixie remains invisible even when it attacks. This ability is constant, but the pixie can suppress or resume it as a free action.

*Spell-Like Abilities*
1/day—lesser confusion (DC 14), dancing lights, detect chaos, detect good, detect evil, detect law, detect thoughts (DC 15), dispel magic, entangle (DC 14), permanent image (DC 19; visual and auditory elements only). Caster level 8th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. 

*History*
Grift is a rogue in employ of the Useeli Court, The council of Fey directed by their gods sent a delegation to No Mans Land to assist in stopping the actions and machinations of the Disciples of Uaedo.  Grift was chosen by the Useeli Court for his ability as a scout and for his skills in infiltrating harder to access locations that may hold information or items of interest to the Court.  Grift tends to be more cautious about his actions and speed to battle.  His cool head has saved the lives of others teamed with him in the past and though he is not delegated as the leader of this team, it would be assumed that he would manage to be a voice of reason to a leader forced to work with mortal enemies in the face of a greater evil.

*Desc*
Grift doesn't look like much and that’s the way he likes it.  He long ago scorned the ways of his people.  He wears clothing more similar to what could be found in the realms of humans much to everyone’s dismay.  If it wasn't for his effectiveness he would have been scorned a long time back.  But some things are willingly looked over for value.  His hair is bright blue and close cropped.  His skin is a deep olive color and his eyes a bright orange.

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=968060

Pixie characters possess the following racial traits. 
•	-4 Strength, +8 Dexterity, +6 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +6 Charisma. 
•	Small size. +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, -4 penalty on grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits ¾ those of Medium characters. 
•	A pixie’s base land speed is 20 feet. It also has a fly speed of 60 feet (good). 
•	Low-light vision. 
•	Skills: Pixies have a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks. 
•	Racial Feats: A pixie receives Dodge and Weapon Finesse as bonus feats. 
•	+1 natural armor bonus. 
•	Special Attacks (see above): Spell-like abilities. 
•	Special Qualities (see above): Damage reduction 10/cold iron, greater invisibility, spell resistance equal to 15 + class levels. 
•	Automatic Languages: Common, Sylvan. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Halfling. 
•	Favored Class: Sorcerer. 
•	Level adjustment +4

[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

Insight - Well I'd personally scrap the Ghost thing, but if that's your concept then you have to work with it, I just never liked high Level Adjustments on casters.  I think as you sit your character is fairly sound.  Not exceptional, but not side-kicky either.

The way I usually make my characters is, I describe them, what I want them to do, etc, then figure out what would fit that concept best.  So, here's the question I'll ask you : If you were bragging about this cool character you wanted to play, how would you do it?  THEN, we figure out what classes/feats would do that best.


Unkabear - 
some notes : About the 4 rings, don't swap out the Ring of Regen, b/c if you take damage while it's not on, that damage won't regen when you do put it on.

Secondly, Weapon Finesse is NOT a racial bonus feat for Pixie's.  If you'll note their sample pixie has a b beside Dodge (meaning racial bonus), and in the "pixie's as characters" section it says "Racial feats: A Pixie gains Dodge as a bonus feat."  The Weapon Finesse is the feat that the sample pixie choose as their first level/hd feat that everything's entitled to.  You'd actually have to spend one of your feats on it, though.

Also, I'm not sure if the DM minds, but could you point out how your stats got to what they are? (Base, levels, racial, Enhancement, etc)


----------



## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> [sblock=working version]
> 
> Note: this is not quite done.  I still need to pick a deity and get the two domain granted powers (suggestions here are greatly appreciated).  I also have not chosen skills (like that matters LOL).  I also have some cash left to spend.
> 
> ...



*
OK, Darimaus said we could choose ANY deity (including made up ones), so if you want to feel free, design your very own religion (Or use one you've made up as a DM before), and get whatever two domains you want.
BTW, Don't forget that practiced spellcaster is +4 caster level, not 2 or 3.
Also, I'd up the gloves of Dex to a +6, and buy a tome+1 or +3 for a total dex of 20/22 




			[sblock=concerns]
I'm concerned about the following items:

1.  He is effectively a 13th level caster in a level 20 game.  I'm worried that a lot of his spells are going to be ineffective against the bad guys,  If all he does is heal, fine, but that's just boring.  I've got a +13 to penetrate spell resistance, which almost certainly most creatures we fight will have.
2.  Healing ability.  Being incorporeal, I can't use touch spells directly on any targets, not even friendly ones.  That means no cure spells, unless they are mass cures.  The best way for me to deal with this is to use Malevolence to take over someone's body and use them to deliver touch spells.  Alternately, I can use Divine Ward to cast touch spells at range, but I have to choose maybe one or two targets and spend turn attempts not only to designate each target ahead of time (it takes 10 mins to prep for each target), but also a turn attempt to cast each touch spell at range.
3.  Low HP.  Not much I can do about that, having no Con score.  The 50% miss chance should mitigate that somewhat, and if he gets in trouble, he can also un-manifest and head to the Ethereal to heal up.
4.  Low BAB.  I won't be able to hit anything with my spells.  Even with a touch attack, I've got a +11 to hit.  I've got maybe a 50/50 shot at hitting the most worthless Lvl 20 touch ACs.[/sblock]
		
Click to expand...




[sblock=RE: concerns]
1. Not sure how you got CL 13.. Cleric 11 + 4 practiced Spellcaster is 15.. is there anything else you add?  Also, in that case might I suggest Cleric Buffs? Righteous Might/Divine Power/Divine Favour combined with your being incorporeal could make for some good mojo... Or, even worse.. OH, I just had an idea... Leadership, Melee fighter cohort, Posess him, buff him.
2. The Cohort idea allows for the Healing, too.. But I think you should be able to do it... Manifesting allows the ghost to make a touch attack, it says.. Healing is technically a touch attack, shouldn't it follow the same rule?
Alternately, there's Reach spell.
3. That shouldn't be a problem as a Ghost.. Like you said, the 50% combined with ability to go Ethereal, Fast healing, and Magic healing(though keep in mind, you'd need INFLICT spells to heal yourself, being undead)... And if all that fails, you respawn in 2d4 days.  I'd suggest being able to teleport somehow (Even boots of teleporation), so that if it DOES happen, you can get back to the group after you respawn.
4. Well, you should have BAB 10, and if you up your dex like I suggested, could get a +16 attack, which isn't that bad. Then you have cleric buffs, Greater Magic Weapon, and the fact that you're making touch attacks (which drain ability scores, I might add).  And if that's not good enough for you, there's always the Cohort idea (Which is how most of the ghosts I've seen played as PC's have gone, though I understand if it doesn't work for you).


BTW, don't plan on taking over the powerful badguys, cuz most BBEG's are the "fail on a 1" type, so if you're going to posess someone, you'll either be using Cohort, random nobody's, or making a deal with another PC.
[/sblock]*


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 17, 2007)

Alrighty, as the completion date is drawing near, I'm gonna give you guys a bit more starting info. You'll be starting on a fleet of 10 ships, each packed with a few hundered warriors of all shapes and sizes, heading towards No Man's Land. This is the list of who's on what boat in case you guys want to work your storylines in together.

Jemal : Boat 1
Nephtys : Boat 1
Shayuri : Boat 6
Voidrazor : Boat 9
Moritheil : Boat 3
Unkabear : Boat 9
Tailspinner : Boat 7
zeb.hillard : Boat 7
Avalon : Boat 2
Bloodweaver1 : Boat 4
s@squ@tch : Boat 10
Rathan : Boat 2
Insight : Boat 1
Kafkonia : Boat 10
Rino : Boat 5
LordRaven88 : Boat 8
Necro-Kinder : Boat 6
Scotley : Boat 10
Brother Allard : Boat 4


----------



## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> OK, Darimaus said we could choose ANY deity (including made up ones), so if you want to feel free, design your very own religion (Or use one you've made up as a DM before), and get whatever two domains you want.
> BTW, Don't forget that practiced spellcaster is *+4* caster level, not 2 or 3.
> Also, I'd up the gloves of Dex to a +6, and buy a tome+1 or +3 for a total dex of 20/22
> 
> ...




[sblock=Jemal]Unfortunately, Practiced Spellcaster is +4 CL _up to your Hit Dice_, which for me is going to be 13 no matter what I do, since I have +7 LA from templates.

I'll probably end up spending the rest of the cash on +Dex stuff in that case.  That was the angle I was thinking of taking anyway.

I may end up dropping Quicken Manifestation and taking Leadership.  It would give me a better way to interact with the group, and I could use Malevolence to take him over if need be.

Or I could drop Ghost and make a Human Saint Cleric Paladin Monk Fist of Raziel woooooooooot.[/sblock]


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 17, 2007)

Waiting for an answer on my artificier question on the last page. I think the thread is moving so quickly that it might have been missed. 


-Blood


----------



## Scotley (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> More healing, PLEASE!    I welcome any and all efforts to add to the list of healing types.
> 
> Players playing healing characters:
> Rathan
> ...




My Ranger build will have access to a few cure spells and is sure to have a wand of cure serious on him. Maybe you could consider him a third string healer?


----------



## moritheil (Apr 17, 2007)

Awesome.  Looks like we've got enough fractional healing.  Thanks for responding, guys!

I have another update to my char sheet, but I'll wait for the RG to post it.  Boat 3, hrm . . .

About AC - I was one of the ones who posted that it should be possible to get 100 AC at 20, so I should point out that my char has nothing near that.  Getting hit is what we have summons for!   

Insight - [sblock]I just want to point out that you won't want use enemies as host bodies with regularity because we'll occasionally using MCvE, which will mess with your ability to control them.  An enemy reverting in the middle of a battle could be very bad news.  I hereby repeat my offer to call up a shambler with 10' reach for you to use to heal people.   Even if you lose control of it, it's loyal to me to begin with, so there's no problem.    Also, I see everyone else voting for divine metamagic: reach as well.    Consider it.[/sblock]

And now I have a question of my own for my fellow build tweakers:  What does everyone consider to be adequate save bonuses?  Doing the math in my head, I believe that preparing for DC 33 saves would be most prudent.  However, I've run into some trouble getting my Fort saves into what I consider to be decent territory because I took the trouble to boost my Ref saves.  (Ref saves see more use, but Fort saves tend to be more critical.)  My Fort save is currently sitting in the low 20s.  It would suck for Ichiru to die to the first Fort save spell he gets hit with . . .


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 17, 2007)

Save Bonues?  I don't worry about them.  I have strong Base saves, and can add +20  to any one of them each encounter, and each time I refresh a manuver.  Everyone else...hmm...+22-+30 is never bad.  I see Salimesh as one of the guys that aggro's casters so everyone else can do their work. *L*


----------



## moritheil (Apr 17, 2007)

Granted, it takes someone optimized for save DCs to throw a DC 33 save or die at 20th level, but assuming that will turn up sooner or later, a +22 to save has less than a 50% chance of surviving.  I don't really consider those odds good.     This is without accounting for Fatespinners, etc. that can push that DC up to around 40 and force you to save twice.

That +20 to saves is pretty sweet.  Bo9S, eh?


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> That +20 to saves is pretty sweet.  Bo9S, eh?




Diamond Mind Defense, yeah.  It lets you add your Initiator Level as an unnamed bonus to one save as an Immediate Action.  And since I'm playing the Initiator Class with the easiest to accomplish refresh mechanic, it should generally be there when I need to use it.

*Grumbles*  I need more Swift Actions in a turn...one just isn't cutting it. *L*


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Granted, it takes someone optimized for save DCs to throw a DC 33 save or die at 20th level, but assuming that will turn up sooner or later, a +22 to save has less than a 50% chance of surviving.  I don't really consider those odds good.     This is without accounting for Fatespinners, etc. that can push that DC up to around 40 and force you to save twice.




True, I wasn't doing my momentary math correctly.  Level 9 Spell + 30 Casting Ability = 29 right off.  Not counting Spell Focus, items, etc...I'd err more to the side of HIGH, as in +30 or higher, to be on the safe side.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 17, 2007)

Could someone set up a temporary list of characters with links to the character sheets? This would make arranging things by boat easier.


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 17, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Could someone set up a temporary list of characters with links to the character sheets? This would make arranging things by boat easier.




And here's Salimesh's Sheet (Pending review).

(Now revised with Stance and Maneuver descriptions.)


----------



## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Insight - [sblock]I just want to point out that you won't want use enemies as host bodies with regularity because we'll occasionally using MCvE, which will mess with your ability to control them.  An enemy reverting in the middle of a battle could be very bad news.  I hereby repeat my offer to call up a shambler with 10' reach for you to use to heal people.   Even if you lose control of it, it's loyal to me to begin with, so there's no problem.    Also, I see everyone else voting for divine metamagic: reach as well.    Consider it.[/sblock]




[sblock=moritheil]If I stick with Ghost, which is at best a 50/50 proposition at this point, I'd be adding a Cohort that I could control.  That way, I can tweak him to give me the physical stats I need to be useful.  I don't like Reach Spell because it's two turn attempts per casting, and Divine Ward is only one.[/sblock]


----------



## moritheil (Apr 17, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> [sblock=moritheil]If I stick with Ghost, which is at best a 50/50 proposition at this point, I'd be adding a Cohort that I could control.  That way, I can tweak him to give me the physical stats I need to be useful.  I don't like Reach Spell because it's two turn attempts per casting, and Divine Ward is only one.[/sblock]




[sblock]Extra turn attempts cost under 2,000 gp each.  Blow 50k gp on Turn attempts and you can metamagic with impunity.  The cohort is not a bad idea, though.[/sblock]


----------



## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]Extra turn attempts cost under 2,000 gp each.  Blow 50k gp on Turn attempts and you can metamagic with impunity.  The cohort is not a bad idea, though.[/sblock]




[sblock=moritheil]I'm not familiar with buying turn attempts.  How is this accomplished?[/sblock]


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 17, 2007)

Does the x4 price for barding only count for the actual armor? Or does it effect magic enhancements as well?


----------



## s@squ@tch (Apr 17, 2007)

*Boat 10 - The Love Boat*

So we have a monk, a healer, and a ranger? on the boat of love. 

Sounds good.  For my boat mates, please see Isaac at the bar for your complimentary Mai Tai and put on your lei, as we're about to leave port.

My character sheet is on page 1, the 2nd post in the thread.  I'm not fully finished optimizing him yet, as it seems that my AC and saves are not up to snuff, and may jumble some equipment around.  

But with a land speed of 90' with spring attack, etc, etc, I plan on doing run by attacks and to be all over the field of battle.


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 17, 2007)

Boat #7, we kill people.  We kill them, *good*.

Though...putting a CG Demon/Fiend-hunting Warblade with a CE Fiendish Troll Half-Dragon seems a little...hmm....the phrase _buddy cop movie_ comes to mind.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 17, 2007)

Boat 3: "Where my people at?"    



			
				Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Does the x4 price for barding only count for the actual armor? Or does it effect magic enhancements as well?




I usually see that ruled as just the initial armor cost.

[sblock=Insight]Nightsticks.  Something like 7500 gp for +4 turn attempts.[/sblock]


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 17, 2007)

s@squ@tch said:
			
		

> So we have a monk, a healer, and a ranger? on the boat of love.
> 
> Sounds good.  For my boat mates, please see Isaac at the bar for your complimentary Mai Tai and put on your lei, as we're about to leave port.
> 
> ...




Nastasia doesn't drink, and eschews worldly possessions such as leis, but she will be happy to visit with you.

My character sheet is on page 2, but still needs a lot of work.


----------



## Rathan (Apr 17, 2007)

Avalon®-

Seeing as we're the only two on the same boat.... let me link you to my char sheet on page 2....

Meekor the Wise


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 17, 2007)

OK, think I'm done

[sblock=Paladin of Bahamut]
Name: Munthrek Ux Darastrix Thurirl
Class: Paladin
Race: Dragonborn (human)
Alignment: LG
Age: 25
Weight: 280 Lbs
Height: 6’
Size: Medium
Gender: Male 
Deity: Bahamut
Level: 20
HP: 20d10 (96) + 140 = 236
(http://invisiblecastle.com/rolldice...astrix+Thurirl&r=1&d=19d10&n=&a=Roll+the+dice)
Experience: 200,000 / 210,000

*Abilities* 
STR 24 (+7) (16 Base, +6 Belt, +2 Manual)
DEX 12 (+1) (14 Base, -2 Race)
CON 25 (+7) (15 Base, +2 Race, +6 Amulet, +2 Ioun Stone)
INT 15 (+2) (+) (15 base)
WIS 10 (+0) (8 Base, +2 Tome)
CHA 26 (+8) (16 base, +5 Tome, +5 Lvl)


*Statistics* 
AC 41 (10 Base, 13 Armor, 7 Shield, 5 Natural, 5 Deflection, 1 Dex) (+2 Vs Dragon) 
FORT +26 (12 base, +6 Con, +8 Cha) 
REF +15 (6 Base, +1 Dex, +8 Cha) 
WILL +14 (6 Base, +8 Cha)

INIT +1
BAB  +20/+15/+10/+5
Speed: 20 Ft

*Melee*
+29 Keen Holy Long Sword +2 (1d8+9, 17-20 x2, +2d6 Vs. Evil)
+29 Flaming Burst Implaing Lance +2 (1d8+9, x3, +1d6 Fire, +2d10 Fire on crit, x3 damage while charging, counts as touch attack 3/day)

DR 5/Magic
Light Fortification 25% Crit Failure 

*Feats* 
Power Attack (1)
Mounted Combat (3)
Ride-by-Attack (6)
Spirited Charge (9)
Dragon Steed (12) (Draconomicon)
Divine Might (15) (Complete Warrior)
Divine Shield (18) (Complete Warrior)



*Racial Features* 
Heart Aspect (Breath Weapon 10d6, REF 27, every 1d4 rounds)
Immune to Frightful Presence
+2 Dodge AC Vs Dragons


*Class Features*
Aura of Good, Detect Evil, Divine Grace, Lay on Hands, Aura of Courage, Divine Health, Turn Undead 11/Day, Special Mount, Remove Disease 5/week, Smite Evil 5/Day



*Skills* (2+Int) x 4 + (2+Int) x 19 = 92
Ride +21 (23 Ranks, +1 Dex, -3 Armor) 
Concentration +23 (16 Ranks, +7 Con)
Diplomacy +23 (15 Ranks, +8 Cha)
Heal +23 (+23 Ranks, +0 Wis)
Knowledge (Religion) +17 (15 ranks, +2 Int)


*Languages*
Common 
Celestial
Ignan
Draconic 


*Spells Prepared*
1st: Bless, Divine Favor, Protection from Evil, Cure Light Wounds (2)
2nd: Bull’s Strength (2), Eagle’s Splendor, Resist Energy, Delay Poison
3rd: Cure Moderate Wounds (2), Heal Mount (2), Prayer
4th: Break Enchantment, Cure Serious Wounds (2), Restoration, Death Ward


*Stuff*
31,860 GP, 49 Lbs. 

+2 Keen Holy Long Sword (50,315 GP, 4 Lbs)
+2 Flaming Burst Impaling Lance (50,310 GP, 10 Lbs)
Tome Cha+5 (read) (137,750 GP, -)
Tome Wis +2 (read) (55,000 GP, -)
Manual STR +2 (read) (55,000 GP, -)
Amulet of Natural Armor (+5) and Health (+6) (86,000 GP, -)
Ring of Feather Falling and Protection +5 (52,200 GP, -)
Belt of Giant’s Strength +6 (36,000 GP, -)
Ioun Stone (+2 Con) (8,000 GP, -)
+5 Light Fortification Heavy Darkwood Shield (36,427 GP, 5 Lbs)
+5 Mithral Full Plate of Invulnerability (76,150 GP, 25 Lbs)
(See also mount)

Handy Haversack (2000 GP, 5 Lbs.)
Holy Symbol of Bahamut (1 GP, -)
Ever Burning Torch (110 GP, 1 Lb.)
Flint and Steel (1 GP, -)
Waterskin (1 GP, 4 Lbs.)
Silk rope (50ft) (10 GP, 5 Lbs.)
10 Trail Rations (5 GP, 10 Lbs.)


Light Load= 233 lbs.
Medium Load= 234-466 lbs. 
Heavy Load= 467-700 lbs.
Lift off ground= 1,400 Lbs.
Push / Drag= 3,500 Lbs.
[/sblock]


[sblock=And his Young Gold Dragon Mount]
*Tekumo, Young Gold Dragon*

Large Dragon (fire)
Alignment: LG
Age: 16
Weight: 2,500 Lbs
Width: 5 ft
Height: 7 ft
Length: 31 ft
Wingspan: 18 ft/40 ft
Size: Large
Gender: Male 
HP: 16d12+42= 145/145

*Abilities* 
STR 26 (+8)
DEX 10 (+0)
CON 17 (+3)
INT 16 (+3)
WIS 17 (+3)
CHA 16 (+3)

*Statistics* 
AC 33 (+14 Natural, +10 Armor,-1 Size)
FORT +12
REF +9
WILL +12

INIT +0
BAB / Grapple +14/+25
Speed: 60 ft, Swim 60ft, Fly 200 ft(poor)
Space/Reach= 10ft/5ft

*Melee*
+21 Bite (2d6+8, x2)
+21 (2) Claws (2d6+4, x2)
+21 (2) Wings (1d6+4, x2)
+21 Tail (1d8+11, x2)

Cold Resistance 20

*Skills*
Bluff +7
Concentration +17
Heal +19 
Hide -4 (-1 armor)
Intimidate +15
Jump +26 (-1 armor)
Knowledge (Nobility and Royalty) +11
Knowledge (religion) +11
Listen +17
Search +17
Sense Motive +16
Spot +17
Swim +23 (-2 armor)

*Feats* 
Fly-by-attack, Hover, Muliattack, Improved Multiattack, Improved natural attack (Claw)

*Racial Features* 
Breath Weapon (Cone of Fire (6d10, Ref DC 20 halves) or Cone of Weakening gas (3 Str damage, Fort DC 20 negates)
Alternate form, Immunity to Fire, Magic Sleep Effects, and Paralysis, Vulnerability to Cold, Water Breathing, Bilndsense 60ft, Darkvision 120ft, Low Light Vision

*Spells* (15% failure in armor) (as 1st lvl Sorcerer)
0th: Light, Daze, Detect Magic, Read Magic (5/day)
1st: Mage Armor, Magic Missile (4/day)

*Stuff*
+5 Mithral Breastplate of Improved Cold Resistance (83,800 GP, 30 Lbs)
Exotic (Military) Saddle (60 GP, 40 lb.)



Light Load= 532 lbs.
Medium Load= 533-1,066 lbs. 
Heavy Load= 1,067-1,600 lbs.
Push / Drag= 8,000
[/sblock]

Boat 6, eh? Only me and Shayuri? How'd we fit a Dragon on a boat?


----------



## moritheil (Apr 17, 2007)

Uh, your mount is as powerful as my 9th level spells.  

I . . . may want to tweak my build now.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 17, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Darimaus,
> Just curious on your pre-character-generation-item-creation rules effect an Artificer build? In particular the cost of creating magical items pre hand. I am thinking of putting together a Blast-ficer/Buff-ificer to help the large party with item creation and crowd control.
> 
> -Blood




I'm not quite sure what your asking, so I'll just go over my position on crafting. There is absolutely no precrafted gear. If you want to make some stuff, you are going to have to do it in game play.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 17, 2007)

Rogue's Gallery is up. I'll just go over the details posted in it again.

 Boat to No Man's Land 

Alrighty guys, you can start posting finished works here. Remember, Fridays the cutoff date. When you post your characters, try and include a little background, what you did prior to getting on the boat and what your characters are doing while on the boats. Your not quite sure how long the trip is going to take.


----------



## Brother Allard (Apr 17, 2007)

*Still in process*

Probably not quite ready for the RG:

*Morrigan d'Coineascar*;
*human archivist 11 / nightcloak 7 / divine oracle 2;*
[SBLOCK=Character Sheet]*Morrigan d'Coineascar*;

*human archivist 11 / nightcloak 7 / divine oracle 2;*
medium humaniod (human);
*Alignment* NE, *Patron* Vecna (oracle),
*Init* +2; *Senses* Listen +10, Spot +10, darkvision 60';
*Languages:* Common, Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic, Infernal
----------------------------
*AC* 35, flatfooted 33, touch 17;
*HP* ?? (HD 13d6+7d8+80)
*Fort* +31, *Ref* +24, *Will* +42;
----------------------------
*Speed* 20' (30' w/lonstrider);
*Melee* +1 spear of deadly precision +11/+6/+1 (1d8/20/x3) (+2d6 sneak attack);
*Ranged* +1 spear of deadly precision +14/+9/+4 (1d8/20/x3, 20 ft) (+2d6 sneak attack);
*Base Atk* +11, *Grapple* +10;
*Atk Options* dread secret, true lies;
*Archivist spells prepared* (CL 20)
0-- _4_
1-- _8+1_
2-- _8+1_
3-- _7+1_
4-- _7+1_
5-- _7+1_
6-- _7+1_
7-- _6+1_
8-- _6+1_
9-- _6+1_
----------------------------
*Abilities:* Str 9, Dex 15, Con 18, Int 30, Wis 30, Cha 22.
*Class Abilities:* dark knowledge 6/day (tactics [+1 or more to attack rolls], puissace [+1 or more to saving throws], foe [+1d6 or more to weapon damage], dread secret [daze or stun 1 opponent]), lore mastery (+2 to decipher script & know(arcana & dungeoneering)), still mind (+2 on saving throws vs enchantment), might of darkness (+2 CL on spells with darkness descriptor), eyes of night (eyes are totally black, 60' darkvision, can see 10' through magical darkness, cannot be blinded by magical effects), shadow talk (whisper to other worshipers of Vecna within 500'), true lies (1/day can modify a creature's memory as bard spell _modify memory_ DC 26), grace of the dark (add intelligence bonus to all saving throws), scry bonus (+1 sacred bonus to the DC of all divination (scrying) spells), trap sense (+1 to reflex and AC vs traps), prescient sense (on a successful reflex save vs an attack which would normally deal 1/2 damage on a successful save, take no damage);
*XP:* 200,000
*Feats:* draconic archivist, heighten spell, iron will, mother cyst, quicken spell, scribe scroll, skill focus (religion), spell focus (necromancy), twin spell, undead leadership;
*Skills:* bluff +22, concentration +26, decipher script +13, diplomacy +29, hide +3, knowledge (arcana) +35, knowledge (arch & eng) +11, knowledge (dungeoneering) +26, knowledge (geography) +11, knowledge (history) +11, knowledge (local) +11, knowledge (nature) +11,  knowledge (nobility) +11, knowledge (psionics) +11, knowledge (religion) +36, knowledge (the planes) +32, move silently +1, perform (wind instruments) +10, sense motive +17, spellcraft +35;
*Possessions:* glammered ghost touch death ward mithral full plate of light fortification, amulet of health +6 / wisdom +6 / natural armor +5, gloves of dexterity +4 / storing (x2), headband of intellect +6, vest of resistance +5 / charisma +6, ring of protection +5, +1 pear of deadly precision, handy haversack,  gp;
*Encumbrance:* 30 lbs; Load: Light (30 lbs)

----------------------------

*Appearance*

*Personality*

*History*
[/SBLOCK][SBLOCK=Details]AC 35 (10 + 13 armor + 2 dex + 5 deflection + 5 natural armor;
HP ?? (6 + 12d6 + 7d8 + 80);
Fort +31 (12 base + 4 constitution + 5 resistance + 10 int),
Ref +24 (5 base + 4 dexterity + 5 resistance + 10 int),
Will +42 (15 base + 10 will + 5 resistance + 10 int + 2 feat);
Str 09 (09 base),
Dex 15 (11 base + 4 enhancment),
Con 18 (12 base + 6 enhancement),
Int 30 (18 base + 2 levels + 4 inherent + 6 enhancement),
Wis 30 (17 base + 3 levels + 4 inherent + 6 enhancement),
Cha 22 (16 base + 6 enhancement);
*feats*

```
1  archivist	mother cyst, skill focus (religion), bonus: scribe scroll
2  archivist
3  archivist	spell focus (necromancy)
4  archivist
5  archivist
6  archivist	iron will	
7  archivist
8  archivist
9  archivist	heighten spell
10 archivist	bonus (quicken spell)
11 archivist
12 nightcloak	draconic archivist
13 nightcloak
14 nightcloak          
15 nightcloak	undead leadership        
16 nightcloak
17 nightcloak
18 nightcloak	twin spell
19 divine oracle
20 divine oracle
```
*skills*
bluff +22 (16 ranks + 6 cha),
concentration +26 (22 ranks + 4 con),
decipher script +13 (1 rank + 10 int + 2 lore mastery),
diplomacy +29 (19 ranks + 6 cha + 2 bluff + 2 sense motive),
hide +3 (4 ranks + 2 dex - 3 ACP),
knowledge (arcana) +35 (23 ranks + 10 int + 2 lore master),
knowledge (arch & eng) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (dungeoneering) +26 (14 ranks + 10 int + 2 lore master),
knowledge (geography) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (history) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (local) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (nature) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (nobility) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (psionics) +11 (1 rank + 10 int),
knowledge (religion) +36 (23 ranks + 10 int + 3 skill focus),
knowledge (the planes) +32 (22 rank + 10 int),
move silently +1 (2 ranks + 2 dex - 3 ACP)
perform (wind instruments) +10 (4 ranks + 6 cha)
sense motive +17 (7 ranks + 10 wis)
spellcraft +35 (23 ranks + 10 int + 2 know(arcana))
;
*possessions*
tomes (int +4, wis + 4) 220,000 gp
amulet of health +6 / wisdom +6 / natural armor +5 158,000 gp
gloves of dexterity +4 / storing (x2) 46,000 gp
headband of intellect +6 36,000
vest of resistance +5 / charisma +6  73,500 gp
handy haversack 2,000 gp
glammered ghost touch light fortification death ward mithral full plate +5 113,200 gp
ring of protection +5 50,000 gp
+1 spear of deadly precision 18,301 gp[/SBLOCK]
[SBLOCK=Cohort]*Tiabhse*;
*human gravetouched ghoul ninja 4 / fighter 2 / dread commando 5 / assassin 3 / shadowdancer 1;*[SBLOCK=Character Sheet]
undead (augmented);
*Alignment* NE, *Deity* Vecna,
*Init* +15; *Senses* Listen +20, Spot +13, darkvision 60';
*Languages:* Common, Abyssal, Infernal;
----------------------------
*AC* 34, flatfooted 34, touch 26;
*HP* ?? (HD 7d6+6d8+2d10+15)
*Fort* 11, *Ref* +24, *Will* +13;
----------------------------
*Speed* 30';
*Melee* bite +20/+15/+10 (1d6/20/x2) and 2 claws +19/+14/+9 (1d4/20/x2);
*Base Atk* +12, *Grapple* +20;
*Atk Options* sneak attack +2d6, sudden strike +5d6, ghost step, ghoul fever (FortNeg, DC 20), paralysis (FortNeg, DC 26);
----------------------------
*Abilities:* Str 26, Dex 22, Con --, Int 16, Wis 20, Cha 16.
*Class Abilities:* AC bonus (wisdom), ki power (+2 to will saves while ki pool isn't empty, 7/day ghost step), sudden strike +5d6, ghost step, poison use, great leap, uncanny dodge, sneak attack +2d6, trapfinding, death attack (FortNet DC 16), poison resistance (+1 to resist poison), hide in plain sight, team initiative bonus +5, armored ease, stealthy movement (no penalty on hide or move silently checks when moving at normal speed);
*XP:* 144,500
*Feats:* ability focus (paralysis), combat reflexes, darkstalker, dodge, improved initiative, improved paralysis, improved toughness, mobility, multiattack, weapon focus (claws);
*Skills:* climb +22, disguise +29, escape artist +18, hide +24, jump +25, listen +20, perform (dance) +8, spot +13, tumble +26;
*Possessions:* vest of resistance +5, bracers of armor +6, ring of protection +5, belt of strength +4, gloves of dexterity +4, periapt of wisdom +4, hat of diguise,  gp;
*Encumbrance:* 0 lbs; Load: Light (306 lbs)
----------------------------

*Appearance*

*Personality*

*History*
[/SBLOCK][SBLOCK=Active Spells][/SBLOCK]
[SBLOCK=Details]
http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=982380
4d6->[1,4,2,4] = (11) reroll 1
4d6->[3,3,1,2] = (9) reroll 1
4d6->[5,5,4,2] = (16)
4d6->[5,6,4,6] = (21)
4d6->[2,3,5,6] = (16)
4d6->[5,4,5,4] = (18)
4d6->[6,4,2,1] = (13) reroll 1
rerolls: http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=982383
1d6->[4] = (4)
1d6->[1] = (1) reroll
1d6->[4] = (4)
rerolls http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=982386
1d6->[4] = (4)
Applied:
4d6->[4,4,2,4] = (12)
4d6->[3,3,4,2] = (10) dropped
4d6->[5,5,4,2] = (14)
4d6->[5,6,4,6] = (17)
4d6->[2,3,5,6] = (14)
4d6->[5,4,5,4] = (14)
4d6->[6,4,2,4] = (14)
Total: 85

AC 34 (10 + 6 armor + 6 dex + 5 wis + 5 deflection + 2 natural armor);
HP ?? (6 + 6d6 + 6d8 + 2d10 + 15);
Fort +11 (6 base + - constitution + 5 resistance),
Ref +24 (13 base + 6 dexterity + 5 resistance),
Will +13 (3 base + 5 will + 5 resistance);
Str 26 (17 base + 3 level + 4 enhancement + 2 template),
Dex 22 (14 base + 4 enhancment + 4 template),
Con -- (12 base + undead),
Int 16 (14 base + 2 template),
Wis 20 (14 base + 4 enhancement + 2 template),
Cha 16 (14 base + 2 template);
*feats*

```
1  ninja	combat reflexes, dodge
2  ninja
3  ninja	mobility
4  ninja
5  fighter	bonus: improved initiative	
6  fighter	improved toughness, bonus: weapon focus (claws)	
7  dread commando
8  dread commando
9  dread commando	ability focus (paralysis)
10 dread commando	
11 dread commando
12 assassin	improved paralysis
13 assassin
14 assassin
15 shadowdancer	darkstalker
```
*skills*
climb +22 (14 ranks + 8 str),
disguise +29 (16 ranks + 3 cha + 10 hat),
escape artist +18 (12 ranks + 6 dex),
hide +24 (18 ranks + 6 dex),
jump +25 (15 ranks + 8 str + 2 tumble)
listen +20 (14 ranks + 6 wis)
perform (dance) +8 (5 ranks + 3 cha)
spot +13 (7 ranks + 6 wis)
tumble +26 (18 ranks + 6 dex + 2 jump)
;
*possessions*
vest of resistance +5 25,000 gp
bracers of armor +6 36,000 gp
ring of protection +5 50,000 gp
belt of strength +4 16,000 gp
gloves of dexterity +4 16,000 gp
periapt of wisdom +4 16,000 gp
hat of disgusie 1,800 gp

160.8
170
[/SBLOCK][/SBLOCK]


----------



## Rathan (Apr 17, 2007)

here's a silly and offbeat question.... can you quicken, empower, ect.. domain spells?


----------



## Insight (Apr 17, 2007)

I think I'm going to stick with the ghost and make a cohort (with the Leadership feat).  DM, how are we doing equipment for the cohort?  Any other special rules or considerations I should be aware of when creating the cohort?


----------



## Scotley (Apr 17, 2007)

s@squ@tch said:
			
		

> So we have a monk, a healer, and a ranger? on the boat of love.
> 
> Sounds good.  For my boat mates, please see Isaac at the bar for your complimentary Mai Tai and put on your lei, as we're about to leave port.
> 
> ...




Sorry, I've been a little slow getting anything up for you guys to work off of, but boat 10 is definately going to be the party barge.


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 17, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> I'm not quite sure what your asking, so I'll just go over my position on crafting. There is absolutely no precrafted gear. If you want to make some stuff, you are going to have to do it in game play.



 That did it. Nevermind on the Artificier build. 

-Blood


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 17, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> That did it. Nevermind on the Artificier build.
> 
> -Blood




That's why I didn't try to play with the Fleshweaver PrC, which I'd love to try.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 17, 2007)

[sblock=Insight] - Moritheil pointed out something I've missed completely... Magic Circle's will completely screw you up, they prevent mental control.  I'd completely missed that w/ regard to the ghost+cohort strat.
As for the Practiced spellcaster, I completely forgot about your HD lack, sry.  I guess you'll have to stick to the buff/heal strat, and throw in blade barriers every once in a while?
Also, w/ regards to Nightsticks, they do have to be held to function, so it's a move action to draw one from a pouch(Assuming you have a belt pouch full of just nightsticks, or a bag of holding)
[/sblock]

As for saves, I usually consider save=Lvl is adequate, lvl+5 = 'good'.  Lvl+10 = excellent.
At epic, it goes up about 2/lvl. (thus a 'good' save at lvl 25 would be about 35, whereas at lvl 20 it's ~25)

Necro-Kinder - A Young Gold Dragon Special Mount should have a +17 Nat armour, 16 HD, Improved Evasion, and Share Spells.
Also, you must provide (Give) your dragon a 14,000 GP hoard (not gear, hoard)

Posting my char. to the Rogue's Gallery now.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 18, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Necro-Kinder - A Young Gold Dragon Special Mount should have a +17 Nat armour, 16 HD, Improved Evasion, and Share Spells.
> Also, you must provide (Give) your dragon a 14,000 GP hoard (not gear, hoard)





Thanks Jemal, knew I would forget something. I'll put that in and post him in the gallery.


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 18, 2007)

Going back to the healing. Any spell with the healing sub-school (which is all of them) will be inffective on the Warforged FB. He is immune too all effects from the school. The only way to 'cure' him would be to cast Arcane spells called "Repair Light-Moderate-Serious-Critical Wounds". The Heal spell will be pointless on him. That is why I was hoping someone would pick up the Artificer Class so them two could roll together and cause havic!   

-Blood


----------



## Jemal (Apr 18, 2007)

Well, I suppose some of us mages could take the "Repair" spells, Or at least a wand of it, for those like me who have limited spell choice.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 18, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Thanks Jemal, knew I would forget something. I'll put that in and post him in the gallery.




Oh, but one thing.. He counts as 14 HD for dragon size, stats, age, Skills, and Feats. (the 2 bonus Paladin mount HD only count for HP, Bab, saves, and level-based effects that target him)


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 18, 2007)

[sblock= Insight]May I suggest using instead of the leadership feat, which may carry the unnecessary baggage of followers, the mentor feat from DMG 2. It allows you to gain an apprentice that becomes your cohort once he reaches 5th level.[/sblock]


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Rathan - Yes, but they take up domain slots.  Or you can just go with Divine metamagic . . .



			
				Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=Insight] - Moritheil pointed out something I've missed completely... Magic Circle's will completely screw you up, they prevent mental control.  I'd completely missed that w/ regard to the ghost+cohort strat.
> As for the Practiced spellcaster, I completely forgot about your HD lack, sry.  I guess you'll have to stick to the buff/heal strat, and throw in blade barriers every once in a while?
> Also, w/ regards to Nightsticks, they do have to be held to function, so it's a move action to draw one from a pouch(Assuming you have a belt pouch full of just nightsticks, or a bag of holding)
> [/sblock]




[sblock]The nightsticks are best used with a Heward's haversack (I can't remember if they make it a free action to draw.  Anyone have the text?)[/sblock]



> As for saves, I usually consider save=Lvl is adequate, lvl+5 = 'good'.  Lvl+10 = excellent.
> At epic, it goes up about 2/lvl. (thus a 'good' save at lvl 25 would be about 35, whereas at lvl 20 it's ~25)




According to that, Ichiru has one adequate, one good, and one excellent save, but doing the math on what can be thrown at us, I feel he's rather inadequate.    



> Necro-Kinder - A Young Gold Dragon Special Mount should have a +17 Nat armour, 16 HD, Improved Evasion, and Share Spells.
> Also, you must provide (Give) your dragon a 14,000 GP hoard (not gear, hoard)
> 
> Posting my char. to the Rogue's Gallery now.




FWIW, I was joking about tweaking my char as a result of that post (though I might have to for saves, per my earlier discussion.)  Still, it's pretty impressive that this mount is basically something I might shapechange into.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

How are cohorts handled?  Are their stats rolled?

I've been thinking that I might get one since I'm the only one on boat 3, and that way Ichiru would have someone to talk to (his bear is loyal, but not a great conversationalist.)


----------



## Jemal (Apr 18, 2007)

Avalon - True, but nothing in Leadership says you HAVE TO have Followers.  They're just 'available.'  Heck, if he wanted he could just say that they're running a cult/church back home.  Plus, the Follower is 3 levels higher, and I believe there was another downside to the Mentor thing, but can't remember what...



			
				moritheil said:
			
		

> [sblock]The nightsticks are best used with a Heward's haversack (I can't remember if they make it a free action to draw.  Anyone have the text?)[/sblock]



Hewards is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.



> According to that, Ichiru has one adequate, one good, and one excellent save, but doing the math on what can be thrown at us, I feel he's rather inadequate.



My 'twinkie' character's saves would all be between adequate and good, according to this system...
Well, those numbers are assuming that you'll be facing opponents built off of similar rules to yourself, but not 'twinked'.  The _Avg_ spell at lvl 20-24 has a DC of about 20+spell level.  
As for Monster abilities, look no further than the Red Dragon.  A Very Old(CR 21) has B.Weapon DC 33, Frightful Presence DC 31.  Adequate save(20) gets the Reflex about 40%, the Fear about 50%.  Good(25) is 65%/75%, Excellent needs a 2 to fail the Reflex, nat 1 to fail fear.
Other Examples of monster DC's : 
Balor(CR20) -  Death Throes DC 30, Dominate Monster DC 27, Implosion DC 27
Titan(CR21) - Chain Lightning DC23, Meteor Swarm DC 26.
LVL 20 Vampire (CR22) - Dominate DC ~30-34.
Tarrasque(CR20) - Frightful Presence DC 36.
ELH: Mu Spore(CR21) - Spore Cough DC 36.
ELH: Paragon Mind Flayer(CR23) - Mind Blast DC 38, Psionics DC 34+spell level (again proving Paragon=godly)

So the numbers do work, ASSUMING your not fighting anything too high above you... Maybe I should start doubling at lvl 18 instead of lvl 21.. Meaning my revised list of adequate/good/excellent at lvl 20 would be : 
23/28/33.


> FWIW, I was joking about tweaking my char as a result of that post (though I might have to for saves, per my earlier discussion.)  Still, it's pretty impressive that this mount is basically something I might shapechange into.




Yeah, Dragons are much more powerful as Paladin Special Mounts than as Cohorts or PC's, for some reason... Though keep in mind that that is a big part of the class (the special mount), and one of his feats, + 14,000 GP. 
I think you're exagerating a LITTLE, though.. A simple lvl 4 Polymorph gets you a 15HD creature(Practically the equivalent of his mount), wheras Shapechange is better in every aspect.. PLUS, your own buffs, spellcasting, and the ability to change to whatever form is needed as a free action 1/round... 
BTW, I love shapechange, so here's a small list I compiled of useful forms(and this is just the MM, and not even all of it) : 
[sblock=Shapechange]
AVORAL - True Seeing, Fear Aura(DC 13 + Cha)
BEHOLDER - Antimagic Cone + Eye rays (DC 15+cha)
BLINK DOG - D-Door 1/round as free action, Blink(free action)
BODAK - Death Gaze (DC 14+Cha) @ will.
DRAGON - Breath Weapon, Frightful Presence, SR, Blindsense, Keen Senses, Flight, High Str/Con.
12 HEADED HYDRA - Fast Healing 22, 12 jets of flame,3d6 fire/cold each (DC 16+con mod)
SOLAR - Regen 15, DR 15/Epic and Evil, darkvision, immunity(acid, cold, petrification), Electricity/Fire Resist 10, SR 32, Tongues, Protective Aura, STR28, Dex20, Con20.
WILL-O-WISP. Natural invisibility. Great fly speed. Touch electric attack, and best of all...immune to ALL MAGIC except Magic Missile.
[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 18, 2007)

Don't forget the humble Willow Wisp. Natural invisibility. Great fly speed. Touch electric attack, and best of all...immune to ALL MAGIC except Magic Missile. 

Woot!

...almost enough to make me want my shapechanger after all. 

I am revamping my ninja's gear a bit. I'll post as soon as I'm done.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil - Cohort's will have standard NPC gold for their level, as well as 28 point buy stats.

Looking good so far guys. Keep it coming. Three more days until characters are due.


----------



## Insight (Apr 18, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> [sblock=Insight] - Moritheil pointed out something I've missed completely... Magic Circle's will completely screw you up, they prevent mental control.  I'd completely missed that w/ regard to the ghost+cohort strat.
> As for the Practiced spellcaster, I completely forgot about your HD lack, sry.  I guess you'll have to stick to the buff/heal strat, and throw in blade barriers every once in a while?
> Also, w/ regards to Nightsticks, they do have to be held to function, so it's a move action to draw one from a pouch(Assuming you have a belt pouch full of just nightsticks, or a bag of holding)
> [/sblock]




[sblock]It appears that spells such as Protection from Evil pretty much destroy my ability to control people.  That's pretty lame.  A 1st level spell.  Pfft.  This is going to cause me to reconsider this character, since I've put a lot of thought and effort into bumping the ability to control people.  They are all going to either have this already turned on, or going to cast it as soon as I am noticed.  So either I try to dispel the protection (not likely since my caster level sucks), or not use the ability at all.  Neither are good options.[/sblock]


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 18, 2007)

Got my character fixed up and posted.


----------



## zeb.hillard (Apr 18, 2007)

Necro: How are you memorizing spells when you only have a 10 Wisdom?  Doesn't the same limitation apply to Paladin's as all other spellcasters, with Max Spell Level = Wisdom -10


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Hewards is a move action that provokes attacks of opportunity.




Ah, so not as broken as I thought.  That's good.



> Well, those numbers are assuming that you'll be facing opponents built off of similar rules to yourself, but not 'twinked'.  The _Avg_ spell at lvl 20-24 has a DC of about 20+spell level.




Yeah, I guess DC 40 and save twice is a bit extreme even if it is plausible.  I'm also frankly at a loss in terms of how to properly prepare a druid for it (preparing a cleric to survive that is a no-brainer )



> Meaning my revised list of adequate/good/excellent at lvl 20 would be :
> 23/28/33.




So I'm two adequate and one excellent.  One of my adequate saves has evasion, though, which should help even things out.



> [sblock=Shapechange]
> AVORAL - True Seeing, Fear Aura(DC 13 + Cha)
> BEHOLDER - Antimagic Cone + Eye rays (DC 15+cha)
> BLINK DOG - D-Door 1/round as free action, Blink(free action)
> ...




Hm, I'd forgotten about the beholder and will-o-wisp; those should be useful, though I'm not sure if the will-o-wisp form enables casting.  I prefer thought slayers to bodaks.  I actually have an extensive list:

[sblock]
5 HD: reason stealer, yak folk (su)
6 HD: intellect devourer (su), myconid soverign (ex)
8 HD: quesar
10 HD: avolakia, braxat (su), immoth (poi), nethersight mastiff (su)
11 HD: caller in darkness (permkill su)
12 HD: hoary steed (travel, immunities), kelvezu (+8d6 SA)
14 HD: planetar, rampager (destroys gear), thought slayer (death gaze su)
15 HD: bone naga, cornugon, elemental weird (su), nightmare beast (su), throne archon (su), psionkiller (immunity, su)
16 HD: adamantine clockwork horror, brass golem, ethereal slayer, great fihyr, juvenile red dragon, spellgaunt
17 HD: juvenile gold, young adult copper/crystal/sapphire dragon, runic guardian
18 HD: ocean giant, juggernaut, pit fiend, slaughterking, tulani, young adult amethyst/blue/emerald dragon
20 HD: adult dragon, balor, bone ooze, ethereal doppelganger, dread linnorm, ha-naga, phoenix, spirit of the land, titan,   wyrmling force dragon
21 HD: demilich (su)
22 HD: solar
23 HD: hellfire wyrm, wyrmling prismatic dragon
24 HD: fiendwurm, tempest
25 HD: gloom, gravecrawler (su), very young force dragon[/sblock]

I'll work on incorporating your suggestions!


----------



## Insight (Apr 18, 2007)

Because of some new information, I'm not going to be playing the ghost.  It's just too much trouble, too many ways my powers can be nullified, too many things I have to do just to be a viable cleric.  And this doesn't include the possibilities of being turned or destroyed, being an undead.

If I have enough time, I'm going to make a new character.  I am considering a Werebear Barbarian 9, Fighter 2.  Kinda boring, but effective.  Thoughts?


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> moritheil - Cohort's will have standard NPC gold for their level, as well as 28 point buy stats.
> 
> Looking good so far guys. Keep it coming. Three more days until characters are due.




Thank you.



			
				Insight said:
			
		

> too many things I have to do just to be a viable cleric.




I thought all clerics were _ex officio_ viable.   :\ 

If you don't want to play a frontliner (not sure, but you seem to think it's boring), you could play an archer!


----------



## Insight (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I thought all clerics were _ex officio_ viable.   :\
> 
> If you don't want to play a frontliner (not sure, but you seem to think it's boring), you could play an archer!




Viable to me means 'able to be effective'.  I don't think a Caster Level 13 Cleric is going to be all that effective, especially if half his spells and powers won't work in various and sundry situations.

Archers are kinda weak in D&D, sorry to say.  At least IME.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Viable to me means 'able to be effective'.  I don't think a Caster Level 13 Cleric is going to be all that effective, especially if half his spells and powers won't work in various and sundry situations.




Well, admittedly I'm not seeing the situation from your side, but it looks like you can heal effectively and avoid most damage.  Of course, you won't be able to do much else . . .



> Archers are kinda weak in D&D, sorry to say.  At least IME.




Really?  How do you build your archers?


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 18, 2007)

zeb.hillard said:
			
		

> Necro: How are you memorizing spells when you only have a 10 Wisdom?  Doesn't the same limitation apply to Paladin's as all other spellcasters, with Max Spell Level = Wisdom -10




::lots of expletives:: I meant to fix that. ::more expletives::

***Fixed. I think. Might need to change skills some more***


----------



## Brother Allard (Apr 18, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Cohort's will have standard NPC gold for their level, as well as 28 point buy stats.




Nuts.  I assumed a roll.

Oh, well.  The cohort needs to be seriously reworked, in any case.


----------



## Insight (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Well, admittedly I'm not seeing the situation from your side, but it looks like you can heal effectively and avoid most damage.  Of course, you won't be able to do much else . . .




Yeah, and that's not all that interesting.



> How do you build your archers?




Easy.  I don't.  They're pretty worthless in my experience.  Plus, you can't always count on having the range advantage on foes.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Easy.  I don't.  They're pretty worthless in my experience.  Plus, you can't always count on having the range advantage on foes.




If my build were not already more or less settled, I would show you an army-killing archer.


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 18, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Yeah, and that's not all that interesting.




Nastasia Sohne von Peter respectfully disagrees; she finds healing the wounded and tending the sick to be more interesting than such trifles as worldly possessions.


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 18, 2007)

oh man, now I'm torn. I could ditch my divine feats, take leadership and dragon cohort, and have *2* young gold dragons to control. should I? or shoudn't I.......hmmmm


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Kafkonia said:
			
		

> Nastasia Sohne von Peter respectfully disagrees; she finds healing the wounded and tending the sick to be more interesting than such trifles as worldly possessions.




I'm really interested in seeing how she plays out!    

Necro_Kinder - One from Leadership/Dragon Cohort and one as a mount?  Sounds wild.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

I have some questions in a side thread concerning avorals and shapechange.

- How many hit points can my lay on hands heal?

- Can I change into an avoral during the same shapechange and use the ability again?  It's not like I'm the same avoral, after all . . .


----------



## Kafkonia (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I'm really interested in seeing how she plays out!




So am I. She began life as a back-up character for (and sister to) my Shackled City character, but I've never had the chance to play her. I figure, if ever there's a chance to see the "girlfriend class" shine, it's now -- loaded up on Exalted feats and in a game where I won't get bored if all I do is heal.


----------



## Nephtys (Apr 18, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Jemal : Boat 1
> Nephtys : Boat 1
> Insight : Boat 1




That feels safe .

--
Jemal, I've noticed you're giving advice. Got any for me? I like the defensive aspects of my character, the AC, saves and regeneration will make him hard to hurt. But he's got difficulties hitting anything, and he doesn't have a lot of attacks, limiting the value of his main offensive ability the Dazing Blow. Should I choose another direction for the character (leaving the War Troll and Monk parts, but changing feats and items a bit)?
I recall there was some rule somewhere that allowed characters to "buy off" their LA in exchange for XP, but maybe that was in 3.0. Know anything about that? Could it be useful?


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Necro_Kinder - One from Leadership/Dragon Cohort and one as a mount?  Sounds wild.




Oh it will be. Also, I don't even need to take Leadership, I just need Dragon Cohort. So I will effectively be 3 lvl 20 Characters (or ecl 20 anyway). WOO.


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## Darimaus (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I have some questions in a side thread concerning avorals and shapechange.
> 
> - How many hit points can my lay on hands heal?
> 
> - Can I change into an avoral during the same shapechange and use the ability again?  It's not like I'm the same avoral, after all . . .




Heres the thing, you're not turning into a specific Avoral. You are turning into you, as an Avoral. Its still you. Its not a different creature. This means that I'm gonna say this (and please don't think this is a nerf, this is what I actually believe), you are still subject to the creatures per day abilities as if you were the creature, no matter how many times you change into it.


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Heres the thing, you're not turning into a specific Avoral. You are turning into AN Avoral. Its still you. Its not a different creature. This means that I'm gonna say this (and please don't think this is a nerf, this is what I actually believe), you are still subject to the creatures per day abilities as if you were the creature, no matter how many times you change into it.




Okay.  I appreciate your telling me that up front.  So, just to be clear, even if I changed into an avoral using another spell, I would still have used up my healing as an avoral for the day?

Also, I have a question regarding breath abilities - what if I turn into a dragon and, say, a linnorm - two different creatures with breath abilities where I have to wait 1d4 rounds before using them again. Could I use different breath weapons in back-to-back rounds?


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## Darimaus (Apr 18, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Okay.  I appreciate your telling me that up front.  So, just to be clear, even if I changed into an avoral using another spell, I would still have used up my healing as an avoral for the day?
> 
> Also, I have a question regarding breath abilities - what if I turn into a dragon and, say, a linnorm - two different creatures with breath abilities where I have to wait 1d4 rounds before using them again. Could I use different breath weapons in back-to-back rounds?




Yes you can. I have always considered the breath weapon concept to be based off of a single breath weapon ability (or in the case of metallics, their duel abilities linked to each other.) In fact, I personally believe a creature with the Half Dragon Template added to itself twice could breath its one weapon, and then follow up with the other one with no rules infractions. the same thing would apply here.

And to go back to the Avoral question, thats how it will work yes.


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## Darimaus (Apr 18, 2007)

BTW all, don't forget for you're characters posts in the Rogues Gallery I'm going to need to know what your characters were doing before they got on the boat, as well as what they are doing on the boat.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 18, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Oh it will be. Also, I don't even need to take Leadership, I just need Dragon Cohort. So I will effectively be 3 lvl 20 Characters (or ecl 20 anyway). WOO.




Does Dragon Cohort not cap the level of the dragon as leadership does? (I don't have the relevant book.)


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## Darimaus (Apr 18, 2007)

Kafkonia said:
			
		

> Does Dragon Cohort not cap the level of the dragon as leadership does? (I don't have the relevant book.)




It's ECL is considered 3 lower for the purposes of leadership.


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## moritheil (Apr 18, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Yes you can. I have always considered the breath weapon concept to be based off of a single breath weapon ability (or in the case of metallics, their duel abilities linked to each other.) In fact, I personally believe a creature with the Half Dragon Template added to itself twice could breath its one weapon, and then follow up with the other one with no rules infractions. the same thing would apply here.
> 
> And to go back to the Avoral question, thats how it will work yes.




Great.  Thanks for taking the time to make it clear!


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 18, 2007)

Question for our DM, how much GP would my Dragon cohort start out with?


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## Rino (Apr 18, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Question for our DM, how much GP would my Dragon cohort start out with?



 I would say none, since it is a creature. but i dont know how it is with dragons. DM rules


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## Darimaus (Apr 18, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Question for our DM, how much GP would my Dragon cohort start out with?




Sadly, your Dragon won't be able to start with any gold. It's not because its a creature, but because Dragons keep Hordes, not belongings, so all your Dragon's wealth is going to end up staying at home.


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## zeb.hillard (Apr 19, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> BTW all, don't forget for you're characters posts in the Rogues Gallery I'm going to need to know what your characters were doing before they got on the boat, as well as what they are doing on the boat.




Do you want me to wait until you go over Salimesh before I post him in the RG?  Or do you want me to go ahead and start filling in a post?


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## Voidrazor (Apr 19, 2007)

Are we using the psionics - magic transparency rules? I had assumed so, but such assumptions are sometimes unwise.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 19, 2007)

Necro_Kinder[sblock=Paladin Mount]
Just my two cents on the Paladin Mount piece. It would seem that you intend on using your dragon mount quit often during combat. (Which is a good thing) With that mind set, I would propose the following recommendation to your current build: 

Fighter 2 / Paladin 6 / Cavalier 10 / X 2. 
(X Being whatever extra two class levels you wish to take. Probably paladin to increase your mounts effective level) 

The Cavalier is a PrC that comes from the Complete Warrior and is an excellent PrC for those who wish to focus on the Paladin’s Special Mount. The PrC offers awesome damage bonuses on mounted charges and its class levels stacks with those of Paladins in determining your Special Mount. You also get two more feats from the Fighter levels at the cost of two Paladin levels. The only possible draw back is that you will loose out on your caster levels as the Cavalier does not give any. It really depends on how attached you are to your spells. I was really never impressed by them, personally.

I have no idea if you looked into it so I will just mention it and you can ignore it if you like. Check with Darimaus and see if you change some of your Dragon’s feats for others so that it can stand out from the rest of its kin. It is your ‘Special’ mount after all (See if it can take Improved Flight comes to mind). Also check into the pricing and see if the Bracers of Armor is a cheaper buy than the Mitheral Armor. Force armor is always better than metal armor. Finally, I know there are magical horse shoes that increase a mount’s speed and I would also think that there is a magical item out there that can increase a creature’s maneuverability. I would get those for your mount but change them into a necklace or something. Upgrading your mount’s movement and maneuverability is always a good thing.

Again just my two cents.[/sblock]
-Blood


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 19, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> Sadly, your Dragon won't be able to start with any gold. It's not because its a creature, but because Dragons keep Hordes, not belongings, so all your Dragon's wealth is going to end up staying at home.




There are some Dragon-only magic items and armor in the Draconomicon, would it be possible for him to have some of these? If not, oh well. Also, can i re-arrange / replace feats, both for my mount and for my cohort?

[sblock=Bloodweaver1] Thanks, I'll look into it. I don't think I'd take a lvl of fight though, I need to have a paladin lvl of 20 to get a young gold dragon. [/sblock]


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## moritheil (Apr 19, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Necro_Kinder[sblock=Paladin Mount]
> Also check into the pricing and see if the Bracers of Armor is a cheaper buy than the Mitheral Armor. Force armor is always better than metal armor.[/sblock]
> -Blood




[sblock]Hope you don't mind my reading this.  Really good suggestions.  I think if he's got Mithral armor, though, he might be looking at swapping in some + equivalents, which you can't do with force armor.[/sblock]


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## Jemal (Apr 19, 2007)

OK, I see several things I want to respond to...

Insight - was the Ghost an integral part of your 'cleric' idea, or were you just doing a cleric b/c the party wanted healers?  You could do a non-ghost cleric if the priest angle still appeals to you.  Otherwise, if you want to play a melee bear, I have a suggestion for you...
Drop Wearbear and a few brb levels... instead take Bear Warrior 10.. It replaces Brb rage with you turning into a Dire bear with the following exceptions: Instead of gaining the bear's str/dex/con, you take your own with like +20 str +8 dex +X con.  Then, take a few levels of Warshaper, which gives you several good bonuses whenever you're bear-shaped.  make your base race Orc or 1/2 ogre(savage species)

Bear Warrior and Warshaper are both Complete Warrior.

Also, if you're worried about all your gear melding when you bear-rage, you could take Vow of Poverty, and make your character a 'righteous wrath' character instead of an "uncivilized berserker".

Darimaus - About the double half-dragon thing... Technically you can't add half dragon twice b/c it says it can't be added to a dragon, and it changes your type TO dragon.  The only way to change that would be to go 1/2 dragon, then add another template that changes your type FROM dragon TO something that 1/2 dragon can be added to, then adding half dragon again (probably through levels in Dragon Disicple).

Necro-Kinder -  Actualy you still need to take leadership if you want a draconic cohort... the Dragon cohort feat just lowers the dragons effective level/HD for purposes of the leadership feat(I think).  Also, in regards to Bloodweaver's comments... Yes, Cavalier would make a great addition if you plan on a lot of mounted combat.  I'd suggest Pal10/Cav10.
  Personaly, I'd stick with +5 Mithril Breastplate, as it costs 35,000 less than bracers+8, and gives 2 more ac (True, it won't work against incorporeal, but that's probably not gonna pop up too often) AND, I doubt your dragon's DEX will be going over 20 anytime soon.  Also, check the Draconomicon for good Dragon items if you plan on equiping your dragon, there's pectoral of lesser/greater manueverability, and a few others, too(Keeping in mind it'll have to come out of your own cash for both dragons, as Darimaus stated that their 'hoards' will not be used for items).  I highly doubt he'll have a problem with you customizing their feats/skills/spells, but it's probably best to wait for his 'official' say-so.  Assuming he says it's ok, There's also some good Draconomicon feats for you.. I can't remember their names off the top of my head, but there's one that improves manueverability by 1 step, and one that increases a True dragon's fly speed by 20' and all other's by 10'.

Nephtys - Actually of the characters I've seen you make, I find them fairly good.  (Your mage in my epic game is actually going to be a lot more effective after the current fight, you're just getting boned by these two specific beings you're fighting right now.)  
Having said that, Yeah, I'll take a look and see if I can figure something out.


Two other random things.. First, I'm not even gonna go near the archer thing, cuz if I did, I'd probably end up making ANOTHER character(that being said archer).. I like making characters too much.
Secondly, 


> Jemal : Boat 1
> Nephtys : Boat 1
> Insight : Boat 1



*Burns Immitation* "Excellent".
(Do we really need the other boats?  )


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## Shayuri (Apr 19, 2007)

Hey Mori...quick question. How didja get a dire tiger animal companion? You've only got 8 druid levels.


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## Darimaus (Apr 19, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> OK, I see several things I want to respond to...
> 
> Darimaus - About the double half-dragon thing... Technically you can't add half dragon twice b/c it says it can't be added to a dragon, and it changes your type TO dragon.  The only way to change that would be to go 1/2 dragon, then add another template that changes your type FROM dragon TO something that 1/2 dragon can be added to, then adding half dragon again (probably through levels in Dragon Disicple).




Actually, Half Dragon can be added to any living corporeal creature, so anyone can take it as many times as they want. I think you were reading Dragon Disciple and using it as a reference, because it can't be taken by dragons.


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## Darimaus (Apr 19, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> There are some Dragon-only magic items and armor in the Draconomicon, would it be possible for him to have some of these? If not, oh well. Also, can i re-arrange / replace feats, both for my mount and for my cohort?




I'm only going to let you take Dragon specific equipment if you pay for it out of your own pocket, not out of the NPC gold, sorry. As for the feat re-arranging, I'll let you do it for the Cohort, but not the mount. The rules for mounts are very specific in that you get a generic one (same with animal companion and familiars) and so you can only customize what it gains from the bonus HD.


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## Nephtys (Apr 19, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Nephtys - Actually of the characters I've seen you make, I find them fairly good.  (Your mage in my epic game is actually going to be a lot more effective after the current fight, you're just getting boned by these two specific beings you're fighting right now.)
> Having said that, Yeah, I'll take a look and see if I can figure something out.
> 
> (Do we really need the other boats?  )




[sblock]
Thanks, high DCs and lots of spells is usually a good thing (though in retrospect I should have made him Venerable).
Hmm, I see your character has a bonus to strength from Fiendish arms. Does that work like a normal magical item (except for the part that involves mutilation) or are there some prerequisites for using the grafts? Would you mind if I stole that part of your concept?
Also, I've noticed when looking at the Wotc boards that some of the optimized characters get an obscene bonus to strength from something called Giant Size. Is there some spell or item that grants that bonus and in that case what's the level and/or price?
[/sblock]


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## Avalon® (Apr 19, 2007)

[sblock= Nepthys]Giant Size is a Wu Jen spell found in CArc that allows the caster to increase in size up to Collosal size at CL 19+. Think enlarfe person on steroids.[/sblock]


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## Fenris2 (Apr 19, 2007)

*Last Minute Submission*

Well, I thought I would throw my hat into the ring with so many games I play in dying latelty. *boo*    
Doh! Looks like the deadline is tomorrow eh?

So that means something I can crap out danged quick...  How about a roguish magey sort.  Yes, that I can do quickly.

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=987034

Hrrm, Great holy poopy pants, and here I always liked point buy.. Oh wait that was 4d6 drop lowest, duhh!  Ah well, it was an amazing day dream for about 20 seconds. Meh...
Exceeds 80? No, its exactly eighty... so re-roll city then...

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=987120
Nope... 74 Try, try again, I knew point buy was better... 

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=987123
78, sheez oh Peat, no lottery for you today Dave

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=987133
Um... Yeah.  Don't even need to add up this one

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=987134
Sigh. You know what, bleep-it... this is worse than a carnival game. Okay so Rebaril will be a bit behind the curve stat wise..  So what?
77 points is plenty good enough for me.  Besides, with 20 levels to play with, if you can't make a hella butt kickin dude(tte), you ain't tryin' right? 

4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [4,3,2] = (9)

4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [6,3,2] = (11)
4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [6,5,3] = (14)
4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [6,6,5] = (17)
4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [5,3,2] = (10)
4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [6,5,4] = (15)
4d6.takeHighest(3).minroll(2)-> [4,3,3] = (10)


Anyway, levels and templates for my would sneaky mag 

Um lets see Cryptspawn.. Me loves the undead me does, and I just did one a bit back so easy peasy sheet. 
And.. sneaky tempaltes... sneaky templates..  Ah how about shadow creature from lords of madness?
Yes sirree near 100% auto conceal is niceee for thiefly types, sure enough

So that leaves 17 levels to play with
3 rogue
6 Src
3 arc trickster
5 Recaster (racesof ebberon) 


lets see hp wise 

http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=987333

Hmm, there we go for now.


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## Necro_Kinder (Apr 19, 2007)

Darimaus said:
			
		

> I'm only going to let you take Dragon specific equipment if you pay for it out of your own pocket, not out of the NPC gold, sorry. As for the feat re-arranging, I'll let you do it for the Cohort, but not the mount. The rules for mounts are very specific in that you get a generic one (same with animal companion and familiars) and so you can only customize what it gains from the bonus HD.




Right-o. Think I'm gonna ditch the cohort then. Also, some stupid questions..does my mount get one more feat because his HD went from 14 to 16? He should get one at 15 HD, right? And does ride-by-attack allow me (not my mount) to attack while flying by? or would that be under fly-by-attack too. If so, can I charge while flying?


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## Nephtys (Apr 19, 2007)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> [sblock= Nepthys]Giant Size is a Wu Jen spell found in CArc that allows the caster to increase in size up to Collosal size at CL 19+. Think enlarfe person on steroids.[/sblock]




[sblock]So it would be quite expensive as scrolls. What's the level and duration?[/sblock]


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## Darimaus (Apr 19, 2007)

Necro_Kinder said:
			
		

> Right-o. Think I'm gonna ditch the cohort then. Also, some stupid questions..does my mount get one more feat because his HD went from 14 to 16? He should get one at 15 HD, right? And does ride-by-attack allow me (not my mount) to attack while flying by? or would that be under fly-by-attack too. If so, can I charge while flying?




First off, yes you do get the bonus HD. Second, all the mounted rules apply the same when you are flying, just so long as they don't contadict the flying rules. You could use ride-by-attack with your dragon (not fly-by-attack srince the standard action applys to the the dragon, not you). Charging while riding a flying mount should work the same as charging while riding a non-flying mount.


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## Darimaus (Apr 19, 2007)

Fenris2 - Good to have you. Your boat number is 10.


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## Jemal (Apr 19, 2007)

Fenris2... Did Fenris forget his password, or is that a dif. person?

Nephtys - I'd stay away from the Scrolls.  It's usually preferable to have a less powerful character that can last months than a superman who burns out after a few weeks.  I prefer to plan for the long term, and for the purposes of buffing, that means I try to stay away from charged/single use items.  Times/day is perfectly acceptable, but I don't think you'd find a Giant Size spell on that kinda item.

Darimaus - Wow, I didn't know that, I must've been thinking Dragon Disciple..
Plus I thought you couldn't stack the same template on itself... 

So that means you could play a "Daughter of Tiamat" 1/2 Black/Blue/Green/Red/White dragon, and for a +15 LA, have Immunity to Acid, Cold, Fire, Electricity, +40 Str, +10 Con, +10 Int, +10 Cha, +20 Nat armour, and all the other 1/2 dragon 'add-ons'....


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## Shayuri (Apr 19, 2007)

Any thoughts or ideas for enhancing Superninja?

Character is, mostly, as posted earlier in the thread. Equipment is different now, so some stats are different...but I'm curious to see what y'all can do with a ninja-shadowdancer focused on stealth and ambush tactics.


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## Insight (Apr 19, 2007)

Read the Evolved template from Libris Mortis as an example of a template that can stack.  At least that's the trend in more recent WOTC materials.  I can't say that extends all the way back to the beginning of the creation of the 3.5 SRD, but I bet somewhere it says you can't stack them.

But it's ultimately the DM's call anyway.  Seems nonsensical to stack a "Half-" template anyway.  By adding more parents to the mix, you'd be diluting the "blood", not adding to it.

EDIT: I searched the FAQ and the only reference to it says...


			
				FAQ said:
			
		

> According to a strict reading of the half-dragon template, it can be applied to creatures of the dragon type (including true dragons). Thus, it appears within the framework of the rules to, for instance, create a half-white dragon green dragon. It’d be entirely up to the DM to determine which of the parents is the base creature and which is the half-dragon template.
> 
> That said, it doesn’t really seem in the spirit of the template—it’s designed to make an existing creature more draconic, and the Sage can’t see how a creature that’s already a dragon can become “more draconic.” Thus, such creatures should be extraordinarily rare at most.


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## Voidrazor (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Any thoughts or ideas for enhancing Superninja?
> 
> Character is, mostly, as posted earlier in the thread. Equipment is different now, so some stats are different...but I'm curious to see what y'all can do with a ninja-shadowdancer focused on stealth and ambush tactics.




I haven't seen you character sheet, but in terms of general advice I would definitely recommend the Darkstalker feat. A lot of opponents are likely to have blindsight. I'd also suggest looking here and here for some amazing deals on magic items.


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## Jemal (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayrui OK, looked over Superninja, and here's my take : Drop the +4 Con book.  the extra 40 hp isn't worh 110,000 GP.. Not when that GP can instead get you other stuff that could benefit you more...
Problem there, though, is that you only have 3 open slots: Bracers, Boots and Robe.  
You should probably buff your AC a bit, and you ALSO don't have a method of Flight (At 20th level that's important).  Now by my calculations, if you drop the con book you'd have 112,905 gp.  Wings of flying would cost 68,000 to add onto your cloak, so you'd probably have to go with something a bit cheaper...  Winged Boots (which fill an empty slot, too) are only 16K and work 3/day, meaning they'd be combat effective, if not travel effecient.  For travel, you'd be better off with a carpet of flying(20K) or improving your speed(See also later)

As for AC, you could get Bracers of Armour+7(49K), and I guess a Robe(?) of Natural Armour+4(36K).  That's an additional 11 AC.

I can't really think of anything to improve you level-wise.  Personaly I don't take Shadow Dancer past lvl 2.  
Thinking now, 2 Shadow Dancer/5 Thief Acrobat(Comp Adventurer) would get you Improved Evasion, Defensive roll (2/day), and a few other nifty abilities.. And 3 levels to spare, only sacrificing the Shadow (meh), and Slippery Mind.  If you took those 3 levels in ShadowDancer (making it 5/5), you'd get the Summon Shadow, Improved Uncanny Dodge(meh), and a 3rd use of Defensive Roll.  Then, by lvl 22 you'd have Slippery Mind.

*ALSO, if you're using Spring Attack, you may want to find a way to up your movement speed... a level of Barbarian, and boots of Striding/Springing would be good bonuses.

BTW, what's "War Wizard's Cloak of Stone" do?


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayrui OK, looked over Superninja, and here's my take : Drop the +4 Con book.  the extra 40 hp isn't worh 110,000 GP.. Not when that GP can instead get you other stuff that could benefit you more...

-- Hah! You and I think alike. In fact, I've liquidated both the Tome of Strength AND Con.

Problem there, though, is that you only have 3 open slots: Bracers, Boots and Robe.  
You should probably buff your AC a bit, and you ALSO don't have a method of Flight (At 20th level that's important).  

-- I was thinking of that too, though with my Jump and (if necessary) Ghost Walk, I can navigate most situations where flight is necessary. Still worth looking into...

Winged Boots (which fill an empty slot, too) are only 16K and work 3/day, meaning they'd be combat effective, if not travel effecient.  For travel, you'd be better off with a carpet of flying(20K) or improving your speed(See also later)

-- I'm not terribly worried about overland travel. Winged Boots are an intriguing possibility.

As for AC, you could get Bracers of Armour+7(49K), and I guess a Robe(?) of Natural Armour+4(36K).  That's an additional 11 AC.

-- Yeah, at first I was depending on the War Wizard's Cloak, which can cast Mage Armor. But I see now that's not enough. Of course a robe of natural armor will be +50% from slot affinity penalty. Maybe I'll tack it onto something else, just to save a slot.

I can't really think of anything to improve you level-wise.  Personaly I don't take Shadow Dancer past lvl 2.  
Thinking now, 2 Shadow Dancer/5 Thief Acrobat(Comp Adventurer) would get you Improved Evasion, Defensive roll (2/day), and a few other nifty abilities.. And 3 levels to spare, only sacrificing the Shadow (meh), and Slippery Mind.  If you took those 3 levels in ShadowDancer (making it 5/5), you'd get the Summon Shadow, Improved Uncanny Dodge(meh), and a 3rd use of Defensive Roll.  Then, by lvl 22 you'd have Slippery Mind.

-- Actually, the main thing I want from Shadowdancer is: HiPS (obviously), Darkvision, and Shadow Jump. The trick is that Shadow Jump at low levels is worthless. And honestly...the shadow companion could have its uses... I also like the conceptual theme...but I'm not married to it. I'll check out some of those other classes.

*ALSO, if you're using Spring Attack, you may want to find a way to up your movement speed... a level of Barbarian, and boots of Striding/Springing would be good bonuses.

-- Barbarian is out of the question...totally wrong for the concept. What I have so far is Boots of Speed...for that nice +30 to move when you really need it.

BTW, what's "War Wizard's Cloak of Stone" do?

It's a War Wizard's Cloak, combined with a Cloak of Stone (+50% to the Cloak of Stone's cost, of course). War Wizard Cloak gives lots of nice spell abilities. Cloak of Stone boosts Hide and Move Silently, and lets you Meld with Stone 1/day.

...Lemme finish the new inventory. I should have done that before asking. 

Thanks for the input!

-- Edit: Ooo...I think I found something nice... Muahaha.


----------



## Fenris2 (Apr 20, 2007)

As to is Fenris == Fenris2?  Nope.  Old handle I use for gaming. Probably should have checked around first to see if Fenris was still active (yeppers) but ah well...

Okay char below....  Look 'er over, and I will post it to the RG when approved...  I went medium twinkage, but even that at this level is pretty powerful when all the 'tricks' pull together.

Otherwise, did hella lot of combining items given we have so much gold, and so few item slots!    Only other 'oddity' is using cohort to undeath after death the PC. Lol ;-)  

BG wise I will likely go with evil cohort convinces Rebaril to do undeath after death - as he was aging...  Evil cohort then tries to control Rebaril, eventually, this does not work.  No one requires a cohort to be nice *grin*.  Given cohort is out of the picture, all that is needed is feats for the libris mortis stuff, which he more than enough slots for  so no biggie.  'Course, Rebaril's  old cohort/buddy could always re-appear. 

---


```
Name: Rebaril
Race: Changling 
Templates: Crypt Spawn(MoF 185)
Class: Rogue 3(SRD)/Sorcerer 6(SRD, PHBII varient)/Arcane Trickster 4(SRD)/Recaster 4(RoEb 157)
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Alignment: Neutral
Deity: NA
Domains: NA

Str: 18 +4     	Char Level: 20     XP: Mid way to 21 less 4500
Dex: 26 +8      BAB: +9            HP: 203 Fast healing 2  
Con: -          Adj BAB: +20       Temp HP: 223  (BAB/HP When under Divine Power) 
Int: 14 +2      Grapple:           Dmg Red: NA
Wis: 11 +0      Speed: 60'/105'fly Spell Res:  25
Cha: 26 +8      Init: +14          Spell Save: NA
                ACP: NA            Spell Fail: NA
```


[sblock="ability gen"]
assigned as follows: STR 10, DEX 15, CON 10, INT 14, WIS 11, CHA 17 
Leveling: +1 DEX, +3 CHA
Going Undead: +8 Str, +4 Dex, Con -, +4 Turn resist, d12 HP +5 HP/HD (desacrate, corpscrafter(cohort), dread necro(cohort)),
+4 init, +10' move
Items: Cha +6 gloves, Dex +6 cloak

HP: max first + roll there after
[/sblock]


```
Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size   Nat  Misc  Total
Armor:             10    +6    +0    +8    +0    +6    +0    30
Normal: 30         Touch: 24      Flatfooted: 22
* 50% miss chance when under total concealment
* When hasted: +1/+1/+0

                         Base   Mod  Mgcl Crpyt Misc  Total
Fort:                     +5     +0   +6  +0    +2    +13
Ref:                      +9     +8   +6  +0    +4    +27   Improved Evasion (Rogue/Shadow Creature)
Will:                     +14    +0   +6  +0    +2    +22
Special: Undead Traits (lots 'o immunites), Immune to Disintigrate, Trap Sense +1, SR 25
Turns as 27HD undead (17HD, +2 crypt Spawn, +4 feat, +4 cloak)

Weapon              Attack         Damage     Type  Critical   Notes
Thunder Lance       18/13          3d6+d6+8  Spell 20x3       20' Reach, +5d6 sneak, always (usually) concealed
off hand            18/13          3d6+d6+8  Spell 20x3       +d6 is cold damage

Thunder Lance       29/24/19/14    3d6+d6+8  Spell 20x3       20' Reach, Under Divine Power, +d6 is cold damage
off hand            29/24          3d6+d6+8  Spell 20x3       +5d6 sneak, always (usually) concealed

Haste adds: +1 AB, +1 Ref Save, +1 attack at highest AB
Usually Concealed: So Sneak +5d6, target gets no dex, +2 AB
```

Abilities:

Ongoing Spells/Abilities

Spells Automatically in play 24/7:
Create Magic Tattoo  - +1 AB Comp (CL18, CL22 to dispel)
Create Magic Tattoo  - +2 AB Luck (CL18, CL22 to dispel)
Create Magic Tattoo  - +1 CL      (CL17, CL21 to dispel)
Draconic Sight       - 180' Dark Vision, 4xLow Light Vision, 2xNormal Vision, Blindsense 80' (CL18)
Mage Armor, Greater  - +6 armor, extended (CL18, CL22 to dispel)
Resistence, Superior - +6 Saves, (CL18, CL22 to dispel)
NonDetection         - DC 33 vs caster level check for for scry/divinations to work

Permanency
Arcane Sight (CL 18th, CL22 to dispel) -1500xp
Tongues (CL 18th, CL22 to dispel) -1500xp
See Invisiblity(CL 18th, CL22 to dispel) -1,000xp
Comp Languages(CL 18th, CL22 to dispel) -500xp

[sblock="RaceAndClassAbilities"]
Changling (Eberron)

* Shapeshifter subtype
* Natural Lingist: Languages are class skills
* +2 save vs sleep and charm
* +2 on Bluff, Intimidate, Sense Motive
* Minor Shape Chage(SU) +10 disguise, alter as disguise self (features only, not magic, so proof vs true seeing)

Crypt Spawn (MoF 185)  created via Undeath after Death(Mof 129) from scroll, via UMD and Scroll Divine Insight cast by cohort

* No Constitution score. 
* Darkvision out to 60 feet. 
* Immunity to all mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects). 
* Immunity to poison, sleep effects, paralysis, stunning, disease, and death effects. 
* Not subject to critical hits, nonlethal damage, ability drain, or energy drain. Immune to damage to its physical ability scores (Strength, Dexterity, and Constitution), as well as to fatigue and exhaustion effects. 
* Cannot heal damage on its own if it has no Intelligence score, although it can be healed. Negative energy (such as an inflict spell) can heal undead creatures. The fast healing special quality works regardless of the creature’s Intelligence score. 
* Immunity to any effect that requires a Fortitude save (unless the effect also works on objects or is harmless). 
* Uses its Charisma modifier for Concentration checks. 
* Not at risk of death from massive damage, but when reduced to 0 hit points or less, it is immediately destroyed. 
* Not affected by raise dead and reincarnate spells or abilities. Resurrection and true resurrection can affect undead creatures. These spells turn undead creatures back into the living creatures they were before becoming undead. 
* Proficient with its natural weapons, all simple weapons, and any weapons mentioned in its entry. 
* Undead do not breathe, eat, or sleep. 

* +2 Turn Resistance
* +4 Natural Armor
* +4 Intimidate

* Dread Necormancer and assorted feat chain from Cohort who 'undeaded' Rebaril

* +4 Str, +2 hp/hd corpse crafter (Lib Mort 25)
* +4 str, +4 dex, +2/hp hd Dread Necormancer (Hero's of Horror p84)
* +1 hp/hd desecrate
* +2 Natural Armor - Hardened Flesh (Lib Mort 27)
* +d6 cold melee damage - Dealy Chill (Lib Mort 25) 
* +4 Init, +10 move - Nimble Bones (Lib Mort 29)
* +4 Turn resistance - Bolster Resistance (Lib Mort 25)

Shadow Creature (Lords of Madness 168)

* Speed times 1.5
* Darkvision 60', Low light Vision
* Shadow Blend(su) - Total Concealment in anything less than full daylight at will
* Extra Picked Abilites:
  * +2 Luck bonus on Saves
  * Fast Healing 2
  * Evasion (Bumped to Improved Evasion)
  * Plane Shift 1/day to/from Plane of Shadow

Recaster (Races of Eberron 157)

* Expanded Knowledge(Ex) pick 2 spells any school/class and add them to your known spells
* MetaMorphic Spell(Su) grants
  Eschew materials for all spells w/o level change
  4/day silent spell or still spell w/o level change
  3/day quicken spell w/o level change but the duration is 1 round
* Sudden Metamagic(Su) 4/day with empower, 4/day with maximize w/o level or time change

Sorcerer (PHBII varient)

* Alternate - Cast Meta Magic spells 5/day with no extra time, but may never get a familiar

Arcane Trickster(SRD)

* Sneak Attack +2d6
* Ranged Legerdemain - 1/day, 30' range, use Disable Device, Open Lock, or Sleight of Hand BUt DC +5
* Impromptu Sneak Attack - 1/day, 30' range, generate 1 Sneak attack

Rogue(SRD)

* Trap Finding
* Trap Sense +1 (Save vs traps)
* Evasion
* Sneak attack +2d6
[/sblock]

Feats:
1  Practiced Spellcaster
3  Empower  
6  Maximize
9  Arcane Thesis - Hail of Stone (Com Arc)
12 Leadership
15 Channel Charge (Lost Emp 7)


Spells Known   : 9 / 5 / 5 / 4 / 4 / 3 / 2
Spells Castable: 9 / 9 / 8 / 8 / 16 / 8 / 5 
Typical Ready  : 9 / 9 / 5 / 6 / 16 / 7 / 4 
CL 18, but penetration of SR is 20

0th: DC 18 Save
_Arcane Mark(SRD)
_Amanueses(Spell Comp 9)
_Detect Magic(SRD)
_Light(SRD)
_Mage Hand(SRD)
_Mending(SRD)
_Message(SRD)
_Prestidigitation(SRD)
_Read Magic(SRD)

1st:  DC 19 save
_Hail of Stone(Spell Cmp 55) 5d4 no save no SR 5' radius, 40' high
_Identify(SRD)
_Magic Missle(SRD)
_Protection from Evil(SRD)
_Shield(SRD)

2nd: DC 20 Save
_Arcane Turmoil(Com Mage 96) 
_Create Magic Tattoo(Spell Cmp 55)
_Wraith Strike(Comp Spl 243)
_Scortching Ray(SRD)
_Web(SRD)

3rd: DC 21 Save
_Invisiblity Sphere(SRD)
_Mage Armor, Greater(Spl Cmp 136)
_NonDetection(SRD)
_Scintalating Sphere (Spl Cmp 181)
_Dispel Magic(SRD)

4th: DC 22 Save
_Dimensional Anchor(SRD)                           
_Divine Power(SRD)  
_Explosive Cascade(Spl Com 85)
_Suggestion(SRD)
_Thunder Lance (Spl Com 220)

5th: DC 23 Save
_Draconic Polymorph(Draconomicon 79)
_Dragonsight(Comp Spl 73)
_Teleport(SRD)

6th: DC 24 Save
_Disintigrate(SRD)
_Resistance, Superior(spl Com 174)
_Summon Greater Elemental(Spl Com 214) -- Recaster spell pick



[sblock="Magic Items"]
Cloak of Etherealness(SRD), Wings of Flying(SRD), Cloak of Charisma +6(SRD), Turn Resistance(MI Com 89)
200.5k   55k + 81k + 48k + 16.5

Ring of Wizardry IV(SRD) + Ring of Spell Battle (MI Com 127) - Know if spell is cast w/in 60', DC 15+SL to identify, 1/day redirect or counter as if with dispell magic, both immediate actions, 
        Ring of Enduring Arcana(Com Mag 126) - +4 Cl vs dispel his spells
127k    100k + 18k + 9k

Rod MetaMagic Quickening(SRD) - 3/day up to 6th Level
75.5k

Boots of Temporal Accelleration(SRD) - swit action for/2 rounds time stop + Boots of Speed(SRD) - haste up to 10 rounds/day as free action
62.7k     43.2k + 19.5k

Gloves of Dextarity +6(SRD), Gloves of the Balanced Hands (MoF 158), Gloves of Spell Disruption (MI Com 107) - +5 targets concentration checks
59.75k    32k + 27k + .75

Third Eye Sense (MI Com 142) - See Known/Discernable Location, Third Eye Penetrate(Mi Com 142) +2 Spell Penetration 
       Third Eye Aware(MI Com 140) +10 Spot, Third Eye Gather(MI Com 141) +10 Gather, Third Eye Damping(MI Com 141) reduce next psi afectign you to minimum level 1/day,
       Third Eye Freedom(MI Com 141) 1/rnd freedom of action 1/day instant
58.2k    24k + 6k +15k + +7.5k + 3.75k + 1.95k

Daazzik's Vest(DMGII 267) - +5 SR, Rogue's Vest (MI Com 130) - +2 ref save, +1d6 sneak
52k   25k+27k

Scarab of Protection(SRD) - SR 20
38k

Belt of Battle (MI Com 73) +2 init, 3/day charges, 1= move, 2=std, 3=full rnd action swift, ditto again
30k  12k + 18k

4x AquaMarine of Spell Extending(PGtF)  1 used for dragon sight, 1 for mage armor, greater, 1 non detection, 1 left over
15k

Circlet of Persuasion
4.5k

Gloves of Object Reading (MI Com  - only pulled out when needed
3k

Death Stroke Bracers (MI Com 93) 3/day for 1 rnd were user may crit/sneak undead, constructs others normally immune, swift
5k

Handy Haversack(SRD)
2.5k

Lens of Detection(SRD) +5 Search
3.5k

.75k wand, lesser vigor(com dev 187) - fast healing 1/1rnds

Staffs - have 1 charge left, bought for use with Channel Charge feat 
1.3k   Abjuration(SRD) - DC 28 -
.3k    Charming(SRD) - DC 23 -
1.47k  Divination(SRD) - DC28 Channel Charge - 
1.35k  Transportation(Com Arc 147) - DC 24 Channel Charge -

Arcane Thieves Tools (MI Com 150)  spend 1st or level higher slot, gain +5 Disable or Open locks, +2 MW
1.4k

Tome of Worldy Memory (MI Com 190)  +5 Knowledge Check 3/day
5.5k

Tome of Ancient Lore (MI COmp 189)  +5 Spell craft/Know Arcane for a day (1 hour study)
5.5k

Scroll of Undeath after Death(MoF)
3.0k   - Used by Cohort to get Crypt Spawn, MoF


6,500gp
[/sblock]


```
Skills

Skill         Rank Adjustments  Total Modifers
Concentration  0   +8 cha        8   
Spell Craft    15  +2 int       24     +5 book     +2 syn
Know: Arcane   5   +2 int       14     +5 book     +2 syn
Know: Planes   5   +2 int        7

Diplomacy      5   +8 cha       20    +4 syn, +3 Circlet
Disguise       5   +8 cha       26    +10 race shape shift, +3 Circlet
Gather Info    5   +8 cha       26    +10 third eye, +3 Circlet
Intimidate     5   +8 cha       24    +6 race and cryt spawn templates, +2 Syn, +3 circlet
Sense Motive   5   +0 wis        9    +2 Race, +2 Syn

Search         15  +2 int       22    +5 lens of detection
Spot           11  +0 wis       21    +10 third eye
Disable Device 13  +2 int       17    +2 MW thieves tools, dump arcane spell for +5
Open Lock      5   +8 dex       15    +2 MW thieves tools, dump arcane spell for +5
Use magic Dev  16  +8 cha       27    +3 Circlet

Move Silently  5   +8 dex       13   
Hide           5   +8 dex       13

Languages:
Common, Draconic, Elvish, Auran
```


----------



## Necro_Kinder (Apr 20, 2007)

OK, my paladin is done and updated. (I hope)


----------



## Jemal (Apr 20, 2007)

Fenris2 - Ah, yeah Fenris's been here for a while (Though it appearas so have you, just not very actcive).

As to the character - 

Basics: 
Don't know what Changeling or Recaster are, so can't say much.  From what I see, looks like a sneaky undead mage type..
What's the LA on Crypt Spawn, btw?  And how did you get "Shadow Creature"?
What's Channel Charge?
I'm seeing a lot in your character is based off of the concept of your Cohort being an uber-undead maker, if so you'll probably have to stat the cohort up, to show that he CAN do everything he did.


Magic items:
couple things seem a bit off..
Stat boosters +6 are 36K, not 32, which threw off some of your stacked item prices.
The Haversack is only 2,000, not 2,500
How often can you use Aquamarine's of Spell Extending?
Also, I thought you could only have 1 third eye.

Spells: 
I notice some divine spells... does that have something to do with Recaster?

Don't forget that Create Magic Tatoo has a costly (I think 50-100 GP, I think) Material Component, which has to be provided EVERY time you cast it (which is why I dropped it.. didn't wanna drop a couple hundred GP a day for some minor bufs).

I see you also like the Metamagic Hail of Stones concept.  It's not bad, but it's not really good until you get epic (Enhance Spell bumps it up to 15d4, then 25 with the second addition).  Also, I just noticed you've got it listed as a 1st lvl spell.. I thought it was 2nd..


----------



## Jemal (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Ooo...I think I found something nice... Muahaha.



OOH OOH, tell, tell!!!


----------



## Lord_Raven88 (Apr 20, 2007)

Hi I haven't posted in this forum recently, (due to me being overwhelmed by the number of post you guys have been doing) anyway I posted a new character submission in the RG.  Also I'm all for having a big group.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2007)

5 levels of Occult Slayer. Bonuses to save vs magic, bounce spells 2/day, constant Nondetection, and immunity to mind-affecting effects.

All that and fighter BAB too. Mwah.

Then I can dip for 2 levels in Shadowdancer for my evasion and uncanny dodge, and I'll save enough money that I can add teleportation ability to my boots to make up for the loss of Shadow Jump.

And I have 3 levels left.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 20, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Darimaus - Wow, I didn't know that, I must've been thinking Dragon Disciple..
> Plus I thought you couldn't stack the same template on itself...
> 
> So that means you could play a "Daughter of Tiamat" 1/2 Black/Blue/Green/Red/White dragon, and for a +15 LA, have Immunity to Acid, Cold, Fire, Electricity, +40 Str, +10 Con, +10 Int, +10 Cha, +20 Nat armour, and all the other 1/2 dragon 'add-ons'....




Ya... fun huh lol.


----------



## Darimaus (Apr 20, 2007)

Ok guys, deadlines drawing near, and we got ourselves 11 out of 20 posted characters (but not neccessarily finalized). Heres the greatest advantage about such a large open game though. The campaign will start Saturday, but people can join as they finish their characters. The rest of us will start things off. If you finsish within a day or two, shouldn't really be a problem. If you're a little later than that, try to work out where your character was based off of the events that were unfolding, or I will have you simply lumped in with the crowd of other warriors until its your time to shine. Either way if fine. I look foreward to starting things off  .


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2007)

Argh...maybe I should just do the shapechanger...or a warlock.

They're so much easier to optimize. 

I'll have -something- ready by tonight!


----------



## Insight (Apr 20, 2007)

I'm going to have to fade into the background on this one.  I just don't have enough time to work up a character to fit in with this crew.  Good luck, you guys.  I may lurk and see how the game goes.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hey Mori...quick question. How didja get a dire tiger animal companion? You've only got 8 druid levels.




I didn't.  That's my wildshape form.  (Daggerspell Shaper advances wildshape.)

My companion is a brown bear, IIRC.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2007)

Gah. That seems so obvious now that I look again.

*sinks into a pile of murk*

Shutting up now.


----------



## Voidrazor (Apr 20, 2007)

Other than calculating post buff stats I think I'm done. Since there didn't seem to be many non-divine casters I switched over to a straight Psion build. The plan being to Fusion with her cohort for some extra spicy post-buff combat numbers.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Gah. That seems so obvious now that I look again.
> 
> *sinks into a pile of murk*
> 
> Shutting up now.




Hehe.  There is a lot going on in there.  I'm going to edit it once I find something in the MIC.


----------



## Fenris2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Fenris2 - Ah, yeah Fenris's been here for a while (Though it appearas so have you, just not very actcive).
> 
> As to the character -
> 
> ...




Yeah, I signed up in hopes of finding table top in my area.  Meh!  No luck, then I finally got pulled into the world of PBeM.  Only started really posting here the last few months so I have been busy despite the join date. 

Lets see... LA is +1 an +2 respectively for crpytie and shadow creature.  That one later is from lords of madness and gives you total concealment in anything but the equivlanet of a broad daylight / or a daylight spell, among other things.  Neat.

Cohort wise, easy to count the feats needed 6, which <=  feats a human cohort would have, so np there.  They are listed on race/class stuff.    Since he won't be around, unless the GM wants him to be a foil, I will keep my sanity an finish Rebaril...  One '20 something' level char is more than enough to deal with making, at least on the time I have. 

Channel charge lets you make a DC 15 + listed item creation level UMD roll to subsititute a spell slot for a charge use on a 1-1 basis wee...  Essentially, its a round about way to get rune staves from the MI compendium and for a sorcerer gives flexibility.  I set Rebaril's UMD just high enough to make that an auto success.  But, for lower level chars it would be a very questionable pick, as failure means a lost charge, a lost slot and no magical result afaik...



> Magic items:
> 
> couple things seem a bit off..
> Stat boosters +6 are 36K, not 32, which threw off some of your stacked item prices.
> ...




Hmm, you are right on costs, I will have to adjust.  Pooh.  I left some slack and used a spread sheet so fingers crossed fixing won't be to bad. 

Third eye is just one item, but with the 50% xtra paid for other third eye stacks...

As many aquamarines as you want.  But like most meta magic boost items, only one of each per spell.  Its a non-slot item that is quite cheap given what it does really..



> Spells:
> I notice some divine spells... does that have something to do with Recaster?
> 
> Don't forget that Create Magic Tatoo has a costly (I think 50-100 GP, I think) Material Component, which has to be provided EVERY time you cast it (which is why I dropped it.. didn't wanna drop a couple hundred GP a day for some minor bufs).
> ...



[/quote]

Divine is from recaster's 'pick two spells from anywhere and add them to your list' class ability.   Rocking good stuff, on top of the automaric eschew materials, tons of instant metamagic without level adjust and so on.  Recaster be baaaaa-roken mi mon. 

Create Tattoo.  Um, no cost but ink in FRCS... But, ahh hella bad, they nerfed it in the Spell Comp.. bast!rds.  To think Nerfing my neat stuff like that with out asking me first.  Well, I will have to fix that then.  Not even instant eschew materials saves me from 100gp component costs - Major suckage...

But, Hail of Stones is indeed 1st level in Spell Compendium.  It is an alternate attack avenue of his, as it chews though serious daily ability use like Oprah on a porkchop.  OTOH it covers those immune to magic, or those with ultra high SR/save/evasion/spell turning critters/NPCs that so p!ss of a magic user normally.  Why? It grants no save, no SR, does real crushing damage from conjured stones - as oppose to magical effectery they could get out of, and is AoE so no spell blade immunity or turning trickery allowed either.  Neener Neener.  

In any event, combine all his time twisty goodness with his quickend maximized multiply empowered instant metamagic, and he can hit a foe with up to 3 hail of stones for 70 hp each in one round's effective time.  So bascially, its 210 hp of auto damage that is danged hard to avoid.  I think that is plenty scary as an attack.  Could be wrong though there is some potent stuff in those PC char sheets that will probably be matched by equally potent foes.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 20, 2007)

Shayuri - NINJA!!! HAI!

Insight - Yar, that blows... 

Fenris2 - I get most of that.  Just a few things.

About the Aquamarines, I meant are they each usable 1/day, 2/day, once and expended, or what?
Channel Charge: Nice... Keep in mind one thing, though.. You can't take 10 on a UMD roll.  Does Recaster give Some sort of Skill Mastery:UMD??  Otherwise, there is no 'automatic', you roll a 1 there goes your staff..
Hail of Stones: I don't think you can add Empower to a spell multiple times.. Where does it say that? (Most feats specifically state whether or not they can stack)
Recaster: Wow, nice.. Races of Eberon you say?  Hmm.  So, these 2 spell picks you get were Divine Power and Summon Greater Elemental?  You only put "Recaster Spell Pick" beside Summon Greater Elemental, which is why Divine Power threw me off.

Darimaus - Looking forward to starting ASAP.

VoidRazor - Fusion-HA! If we get really boned, throw me an ear-ring and we'll show'em how real Saiyan's party.  (50 xp to anyone who gets the reference!)  (Another 50 xp to anyone who realizes I can't actually give xp.  )


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2007)

Thorn will be the greatest Hokage of them all!

Buh-LEEVE it!!

...and as of 3.5 you can't stack the same metamagic feat more than once.


----------



## Insight (Apr 20, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Insight - Yar, that blows...




Yeah, sorry about that.  I tried coming up with an idea that was both powerful enough to be able to fit in with the rest of you, and compelling enough for me to want to play, and sadly, there was no middle ground.  I'm just not a munchkin at heart - no offense.  I'm rather used to being restricted to characters that make sense thematically, and I kinda need to do that in order to make characters.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2007)

I hear you. I'm just willing to be underpowered.


----------



## Fenris2 (Apr 20, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Shayuri - NINJA!!! HAI!
> About the Aquamarines, I meant are they each usable 1/day, 2/day, once and expended, or what?  Channel Charge: Nice... Keep in mind one thing, though.. You can't take 10 on a UMD roll.  Does Recaster give Some sort of Skill Mastery:UMD??  Otherwise, there is no 'automatic', you roll a 1 there goes your staff..
> Hail of Stones: I don't think you can add Empower to a spell multiple times.. Where does it say that? (Most feats specifically state whether or not they can stack)
> Recaster: Wow, nice.. Races of Eberon you say?  Hmm.  So, these 2 spell pi[ccks you get were Divine Power and Summon Greater Elemental?  You only put "Recaster Spell Pick" beside Summon Greater Elemental, which is why Divine Power threw me off.
> ...




Well, I am glad for you guys looking him over.  I did him up in like 3-4 hours which is danged fast for pokey turtle me.

Ahhhh, Aquamarines are 1/day ea

UMD and skills.  Actually it reverese.  Skils do not auto fail on a 1 roll, nor succeed on a 20.   Rebaril is sorcerer -hint high cha- so will succeed on a UMD roll of 1.  Given I messed up on metamagic, I just checked that, unless its erratta somewhere since 3.5 PHB...

Can't stack metamagic huh?  Wierd all the 3.5 games I have seen allow this.  Then again looking at it your right.  Well, rebuild time again I suppose.. ;-)  Ball lightning, yes a maximized empowered ball lighting is suitably scary enough as a main attack.  15d6 base for um 135 dmg... three times a round is okay too ;-).  maximized & empowered disitingrate works nice too 17th * (24+12)...  Any suggestions for a hail of stone alternative???

Yep recaster is pretty bad ass.  Pick from the divines, assassin, paladin whatever spell ya want.  But just two.   Add crazy meta magic and well there ya go.


----------



## Scotley (Apr 20, 2007)

Unfortunately, I am not going to be able to make the deadline, even with the extension. We had major shake ups at work this week and I'm going to be very busy for the foreseeable future. Have fun all. Maybe next time. It think this will be a very interesting game.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 20, 2007)

Well, Chain Missile (Spell comp) shoots 10 missiles.  Auto-hit no save to first target (though still allows SR), and then chains to other targets.

And how do you get 3 spells/round? Normal + Quickened=2.  Haste doesn't allow extra spell, and you can't take Multispell yet.

BTW, how often can you use the recaster's "free metamagic" stuff?


----------



## Fenris2 (Apr 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Well, Chain Missile (Spell comp) shoots 10 missiles.  Auto-hit no save to first target (though still allows SR), and then chains to other targets.
> 
> And how do you get 3 spells/round? Normal + Quickened=2.  Haste doesn't allow extra spell, and you can't take Multispell yet.
> 
> BTW, how often can you use the recaster's "free metamagic" stuff?





Method 1) first action swit use of belt of battle (Mi Com 73) to get full round of additional action in that extra round quicken spell (1st spell)+ normal spell (2nd spell). Extra round ends, resume normal round progress and finish up with casting normally (3rd spell)...

Method 2) Use boots of Temporal Accelleration (SRD - Psi item) gives two rounds of free actions.  But Ball Lightning has duration baaaaybee so its good to go even with the boots limitation on affecting the world.  Hmm, lets see swift activate boots.  In 2 rounds I could go 4 Ball Lightnings at whatever target, quickening two and maximinzed empowered all of them...  Then come back into play, ignore bad effects of boots since I am undead... Go cast again at poor target just for giggles, so he/she/it is hit for 4+ max/emp ball lightninigs.  Ow.  I just did the math on that one...  

Moral of the story... 'Time travel' items suck from a balance perspective.

Recaster MM stuff is on the sheet.  Also Sorcerers w/o familiar can do MM without extra time, not for free though of course...


----------



## Jemal (Apr 21, 2007)

> 3/day quicken spell w/o level change but the duration is 1 round



Hate to say it, but that means you won't be able to use your 'free quicken' abilities on ball lightning during Temporal Acceleration, b/c 1 round duration means the spell ends at the beginning of your next action.

Also, does that swift battle belt give you "An additional Round's worth of actions", or "An additional Full-round Action"? B/c those are two very different things.


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## Unkabear (Apr 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> VoidRazor - Fusion-HA! If we get really boned, throw me an ear-ring and we'll show'em how real Saiyan's party.  (50 xp to anyone who gets the reference!)  (Another 50 xp to anyone who realizes I can't actually give xp.  )




I feel a little Dirty, but that is a Dragonball refrence.  And for some reason I just can't see our characters merging...would be funny though.  would that mean that you would add invisiblility and SA to your attacks?


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Hate to say it, but that means you won't be able to use your 'free quicken' abilities on ball lightning during Temporal Acceleration, b/c 1 round duration means the spell ends at the beginning of your next action.
> 
> Also, does that swift battle belt give you "An additional Round's worth of actions", or "An additional Full-round Action"? B/c those are two very different things.




In the MIC discussion thread, it's pointed out as "an additional full round action."  Plus, as Jemal noted, activation is a swift action.  There's no way to get 3 spells in one round with this.

Also, Fenris - totally not trying to derail the thread here, but I've had a message up for you in our other mutual endeavor for a few days now.  You might want to look at your tattoo artist there while you're at it.


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2007)

Insight said:
			
		

> Yeah, sorry about that.  I tried coming up with an idea that was both powerful enough to be able to fit in with the rest of you, and compelling enough for me to want to play, and sadly, there was no middle ground.  I'm just not a munchkin at heart - no offense.  I'm rather used to being restricted to characters that make sense thematically, and I kinda need to do that in order to make characters.




Does that mean that Ichiru is not powerful or that the build (which is more or less straight daggerspell shaper) isn't thematically unified?


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Buh-LEEVE it!!




I see your Dattebyo, and raise you to an Arienai!


----------



## Fenris2 (Apr 21, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> In the MIC discussion thread, it's pointed out as "an additional full round action."  Plus, as Jemal noted, activation is a swift action.  There's no way to get 3 spells in one round with this.
> 
> Also, Fenris - totally not trying to derail the thread here, but I've had a message up for you in our other mutual endeavor for a few days now.  You might want to look at your tattoo artist there while you're at it.




I will do so in all likely hood I have a refactor comming, not hugem, but one none the less.  Leanring that MM does not stack suckethed, but was enlightening...

Onward.  Still can't put finger on why cast 3 spells as far as belt.  Maybe I am slow today though.

Belt option
swift action + normal action in one round yes?
swift is to ativate belt gaining one extra full round of actions
So swift + insert full round(quicken cast + normal cast ) + finish with normal round and cast a spell.   I can see no flaw here, 3 spells cast in one actual round. 

BUT I have been wrong (and right once in while) before.   Quicken can be by ability (if using an instant spell like empowered/maxxed disintigrate) or by rod of metamagic.  In any event the belt does not have the boots limitations about what can be done in the real world while sped up afaik.

Boots option. Rod of metamagic fixes innate quicken duration issue quite nicely.  Back to 4 ball lightinings of doom I fear.


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2007)

Fenris2 said:
			
		

> I will do so.  Sorry, but this sucker has sapped my free time.  Still can't put finger on why not as far as belt.  Maybe I am slow today though.
> 
> Okay so for the nay sayers one more time
> 
> ...




I'm not trying to be a naysayer.  I actually have this item on my char.  What it gives for 3 charges is a "full round action," which is the sort of thing a sorc uses to cast a metamagic spell.  It doesn't say that you get an actual extra round in which to act.  The distinction is important - you don't get any more swift actions.

So you do get to cast twice without preparing a quickened spell, but you don't get to cast three times.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 21, 2007)

Well, it looks like I won't finish Nastasia until later this weekend... I was busy all day and then had a film showing to go to for my brother, and tomorrow I have some personal matters to attend to followed by my regular f2f group's biweekly gathering.

It's a good thing she has no magic items, so at least it should be quick to get it done once I have the chance.


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## Jemal (Apr 21, 2007)

It's not a full round OF actions, but a 'full round action'.  This lets you do/cast anything that is a full round action, or a standard and a move action, or 2 move actions, but does NOT give you an extra swift action. (You get 1 swift action each round, not for each 'full action' you take.)  Likewise, Greater Celerity does not give you another swift action (If it did, you could keep casting it and gaining more spells until you ran out of casting's of greater celerity.)


The other problem I see with your character is that all his abilities are 3 or 4times/day (Including Metamagic Rods), and the boots/belt are 1/day.  That seems to lead to serious burnout.  Seems like the concept is "For a few seconds a day I can explode mountains... Please be dead when I'm done."

Just pace yourself, don't throw all your abilities off in the first 2 rounds of combat.


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## Rathan (Apr 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> "For a few seconds a day I can explode mountains... Please be dead when I'm done."




ok.. need to walk away form the comp so the hiccups from me lauighing too hard a few moments ago will go away... hehe... that's classic


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## Shayuri (Apr 21, 2007)

Here's superninja! Even superer than before! I hope. 

I post here for review.

[sblock]Name: Thorn
Race: Human
Class/Level Ninja 10 / Thief-Acrobat 3 / Occult Slayer 5 / Shadowdancer 2
Gender: Female
Exp

Desc

Strength (STR) 22
Dexterity (DEX) 30
Constitution (CON) 22
Intelligence (INT) 14
Wisdom (WIS) 26
Charisma (CHA) 14

Alignment: Neutral
AC: 45 (10 +10 dex +8 armor +2 ninja +8 wis +5 deflection + 1 insight + 1 dodge)
Hit Points: 6+12d6+7d8+120 ()
Movement: 40'

Init: +14
Base Attack Bonus: +15/+10/+5
Melee Attack: +21/+16/+11
Ranged Attack: +25/+20/+15
Fort: +18
Reflex: +31
Will: +24 (+2)

Race Abilities
Bonus feat
Bonus skill points

Class Abilities:
AC Bonus (Wis bonus +2)
Ki Power 14/day
Sudden Strike 5d6
Trapfinding
Ghost Step (Invis and Ethereal)
Improved Poison Use
Great Leap (+4 to jump, always treat as if running)
Acrobatics +4
Ki Dodge (Concealment)
Speed Climb (climb at full Move, must begin and end on horizontal surface)
Ghost Strike (Can strike incorp or ethereal, or strike material -from- ethereal)

Hide in Plain Sight (Shadows)
Evasion
Darkvision 60'
Uncanny Dodge

Fast Acrobatics (Tumble and Balance at full speed)
Kip Up (Stand up as free action, no AoO)
Steady Stance (Not flatfooted while balancing or climbing)
Agile Fighting +1/+2  (Bonus to AC / Bonus while fighting defensively)
Slow Fall 20'
Acrobatic Charge (Can charge over any terrain that can be moved over)
Defensive Roll 1/day

Magical Defense +3
Weapon Bond (+1d6 with bonded weapon vs spellusers or spell like ability users)
Vicious Strike (x2 damage when interrupting spell w/readied action)
Mind over Magic 2/day (Bounce incoming spell as Spell Turning)
Auravision (Constant Detect Magic)
Nondetection Cloak (Constant Nondetection on self and gear)
Blank Thoughts (Immunity to mind-affecting effects)

Skills:117n+20sh+30thac+25mag
(+2 to all skills)
Balance +20 (8 ranks + 10 dex + 2 synergy)
Bluff +17 (15 ranks + 2 cha)
Climb +23 (13 ranks + 6 str + 4 class)
Hide +35 (20 ranks + 10 dex + 5 comp)
Jump +31 (10 ranks + 6 Str + 8 Class + 2 synergy + 5 item)
Knowledge: Arcana +6 (4 cc ranks + 2 int)
Listen +27 (19 ranks + 8 Wis)
Move Silently +35 (20 ranks + 10 dex + 5 comp)
Open Lock +20 (10 ranks + 10 dex)
Perform +7 (5 CC ranks + 2 cha)
Search +16 (14 ranks + 2 int)
Sense Motive +18 (10 ranks + 8 Wis)
Spellcraft +5 (3 cc ranks + 2 int)
Spot +27 (19 ranks + 8 wis)
Tumble +26 (10 ranks + 10 dex + 2 synergy + 4 class)

Feats
1 Dodge
1 Mobility
3 Improved Initiative
6 Weapon Finesse
9 Combat Reflexes
12 Weapon Focus: Short Sword
15 Darkstalker
18 Enduring Ki

Languages - Common, Draconic, Elvish

Money - 85

Weapons -
Short Sword +4, +31, 1d6+10, Magebane, Deadly Precision, 72,315
 - 7d6+10 on sudden strike, 4d6+12 vs arcane casters, 10d6+12 sudden strike vs arcane
Armour -
None

Gear -
None

Magic -
Gloves of Dexterity +6, 36,000
Belt of Strength +6, 36,000
Heartseeking Amulet of Health +6, 40,500
Headband of Wis +6, 36,000
Cloak of the Bat, 26,000
Deathstrike Bracers of Armor +8, 71,500
Vest of Resistance +5, 25,000
Ring of Protection +5, 50,000
Lockpicking Ring, 3,500
Blindfold of True Darkness, 9,000
Pale Green Prism Ioun Stone, 30,000
Luckstone, 20,000
Dusty Rose Ioun Stone, 5,000
Elven Boots of Striding and Teleportation, 61,000
Sacred Scabbard, 4,400
Handy Haversack, 2,000
Rod of Rope, 4,000
Survival Pouch, 3,300
Thorn Pouch, 4,400

3 tomes, 220,000
+4 Wis, Dex

Background: 

Thorn is an operative of a secretive organization called the Silencers. They are known as a group of "mage-killers." Men and women who can be hired to dispose of magical threats, be it mad mages, rampaging dragons, or similar arcane spell using pests. 

Although the Silencers are a mercenary group, they have been known to take certain high profile cases for compensation other than money...and sometimes for no apparent payment at all (though cynics suggest such cases are merely to strengthen their reputation). Certainly the events on No Man's Land suggests a magical danger of proportions unheard of in recorded history, and the Silencers have responded with one of their most relentless, resourceful, and deadly agents.

She has been named Thorn; a reference to the poisonous thorns of the otherwise beautiful and inviting Ollawa flowers in the tropical land she's from. Similar to her namesake, she is rarely seen before she strikes, and her victim rarely lives to comment on what they saw at the moment of the attack. Few sanctuaries can keep her out. Few defenses can anticipate or stop her attacks. In the history of the Silencers, few have approached her success rate.

Thorn's task in No Man's Land is simple. Assess the danger. Engage it and destroy it. She is under a special order not to kill anyone else, no matter how odious or irresponsible their use of magic. However, off the record, she was told to keep a list of names and descriptions. After all, when the terror to come was averted, the Silencers would still need prospects.[/sblock]


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## Voidrazor (Apr 21, 2007)

Lowryllyth is done, barring last minute fiddling. Buffed she's a bit *too* good.

Shayuri - I'd suggest Expeditious Dodge rather than regular dodge since it fulfills the same feat requirement. Come to think of it, you could get a continuous Collar of Umbral Metamorphosis (Tome of Magic) for 22k to get Hide in Plain sight instead of burning all those feats for Shadowdancer. Or maybe you could find a way to fit in spring attack since you have the prereqs.

*EDIT* - The character sheet edit didn't post. Doh! I'll have to redo it tomorrow.


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## Darimaus (Apr 21, 2007)

K guys, the in game thread is up. Heres a quick link for you all. 

Also, I'm opening another OOC thread for this game. I would like this thread to deal with all issue NOT involving character creation or tweaking. Thats what this thread will be reserved for from now on, since people still need to get themselves entered into the game.

 Heres a link to the OOC thread.


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## Shayuri (Apr 21, 2007)

Shadowdancer is more than just HiPS though. It's also Evasion and Uncanny Dodge. And Darkvision.

Yeah, there's other ways to get 'em, but Shadowdancer is in concept...and I'm tired of jinking feats and skills around. 

As for Expeditious Dodge and Spring Attack, I decided not to explicitly. They don't match Thorn's fighting style...which is to ambush, then vanish, then ambush again. Not to run around willynilly.

Thanks for the suggestions though!


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## Jemal (Apr 21, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> ok.. need to walk away form the comp so the hiccups from me lauighing too hard a few moments ago will go away... hehe... that's classic



Thank you, thank you, I'm here all week *bows*

Shayuri - Hmm, Super Ninja turned into super-duper ninja, not bad.   Looks like the party's shaping up to be quite a force. (I personally would've done TA5 and Occult3, but to each his own).  
Two things - 
First is a suggestion, if you want to play a mage-slayer, may i suggest dropping weapon focus (The +1 isn't worth all that much) for the Mage-Slayer feat?  Then if you could find a way to take Pierce Magical Defense, you'll be able to take _me_ out... as well as most mages.

Second thing is just housekeeping - You dropped one of your books, but still have it listed as "3 books - 220,000"


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## Shayuri (Apr 21, 2007)

Occult Slayer 5 is necessary to get the mind blank. 

Weapon Focus is necesary to get Occult Slayer.

Oops...thanks for the housekeeping though! Hee...


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## Jemal (Apr 21, 2007)

OH, and AHA.  I see, well it would've been nice. no defensive casting, combined with the ability to ignore ac bonuses from spells (And automatically dispel them on hit) would've been nice, but I guess mind immunity is better. (Don't call it mind blank cuz it doesn't work on divinations, does it?)


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 21, 2007)

Good point...though the constant nondetection does. 

Not sure if Nondetection shields invisible from See Invisible or True Sight. Probably not. Ah well.

And honestly, those Mage Slayer feats are so broken...I couldn't in good conscience take them.


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## Jemal (Apr 21, 2007)

yeah, my character's pretty twinked, but most 20th lvl melee characters could beat me simply by taking those 2 feats.  I foresee that if the DM _were_ to want to beat me down, that'd be an easy way to do it. *Pow, he hits you, your ac buffs are gone, and you can't cast defensively.  your turn.*


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> ok.. need to walk away form the comp so the hiccups from me lauighing too hard a few moments ago will go away... hehe... that's classic




It's pretty accurate, though; that's how nova builds work.


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> yeah, my character's pretty twinked, but most 20th lvl melee characters could beat me simply by taking those 2 feats.  I foresee that if the DM _were_ to want to beat me down, that'd be an easy way to do it. *Pow, he hits you, your ac buffs are gone, and you can't cast defensively.  your turn.*




Melee, nothing.  Try an archer with those feats that snipes you to death.


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## Jemal (Apr 22, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Melee, nothing.  Try an archer with those feats that snipes you to death.



AH, but Archers don't scare me that much. First off, Deflect Arrows(With the Epic variants on the way), secondly the archer isn't making it impossible for me to cast, so I can still fling spells, and if i have to, teleport away or even engage him in melee, so HE can't shoot w/o provoking an AoO(unless he's Order of the Bow).


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## moritheil (Apr 22, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> AH, but Archers don't scare me that much. First off, Deflect Arrows(With the Epic variants on the way), secondly the archer isn't making it impossible for me to cast, so I can still fling spells, and if i have to, teleport away or even engage him in melee, so HE can't shoot w/o provoking an AoO(unless he's Order of the Bow).




True.  The main thing is, an archer with those feats is very difficult to find with the proper setup.  Nothing prevents you from leaving the battle, of course.

Okay, I have a quick question: How much XP do cohorts start with?


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 22, 2007)

Since everyone is have second and third eyes on their sheet. Does those who are better skilled than I scan my sheet for 'recommendations'? I appreciate it. Thanks. 

-Blood


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## moritheil (Apr 22, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Since everyone is have second and third eyes on their sheet. Does those who are better skilled than I scan my sheet for 'recommendations'? I appreciate it. Thanks.
> 
> -Blood




1.  Avatar means something very specific; I don't think it applies here.
2.  You may want to post what everything does.  For example, I don't know why you have a pale green ioun stone, and it's taking up a chunk of your resources . . .
3.  "Gloves of Gaint Str +6    (5,500gp / -lbs)  [Hands]"  I'm having a little trouble figuring out your pricing of that item.
4.  Is the ring of regeneration from the healing subschool?
5.  I could have sworn that permanence + enlarge costs more than 4k gp.  I didn't check the math, but going from memory that seems a little low . . .


----------



## moritheil (Apr 22, 2007)

Oh, I also have another question for the DM:

[sblock]Are you ruling Sylph casting ability per RAW, or per standardized interpretation?

It does say as a sorc of level 4+HD, but every DM I've ever discussed this with has considered that an example of poor wording and just run it as indicating _racial HD_ plus 4.  I built that way, but I happened to note that other people in this campaign have used the 4+ any HD interpretation.  Obviously, there is a huge resultant power gap, as this effectively makes them gestalt characters.

Please let me know.[/sblock]


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 22, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> 1.  Avatar means something very specific; I don't think it applies here.
> 2.  You may want to post what everything does.  For example, I don't know why you have a pale green ioun stone, and it's taking up a chunk of your resources . . .
> 3.  "Gloves of Gaint Str +6    (5,500gp / -lbs)  [Hands]"  I'm having a little trouble figuring out your pricing of that item.
> 4.  Is the ring of regeneration from the healing subschool?
> 5.  I could have sworn that permanence + enlarge costs more than 4k gp.  I didn't check the math, but going from memory that seems a little low . . .



Thanks for the help!!

Response:
1. He likes to think of himself as avater even though he is not. 
2. Pale Green Ioun stone gives a +1 to attack, saves, and all skill checks. 
3. Type-O & corrected
4. It is mentioned by WoTC that ring of regeneration works on Warforged Juggernaunts. Cannot find the exact source though. 
5. Just a minor technicality, but it is permanent Expansion. Enlarge Person does not work on Warforges as they are Living Constructs, not humaniods. For cost, I am not sure how I got that cost....

-Blood


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## moritheil (Apr 22, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Thanks for the help!!
> 4. It is mentioned by WoTC that ring of regeneration works on Warforged Juggernaunts. Cannot find the exact source though.
> 5. Just a minor technicality, but it is permanent Expansion. Enlarge Person does not work on Warforges as they are Living Constructs, not humaniods. For cost, I am not sure how I got that cost....
> 
> -Blood




4.  Neat.  If you can find that, I'd be interested in saving that link for my own possible use at some point.    
5.  Ah, that makes sense.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 22, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 - 
1) I'm pretty sure you've explained this before, but how's your weapon 2 sizes larger?  the Bracers give 1 size larger, but I don't see how you got the other one. 
2) Why is your initiative mod +4 when your dex is +2?
3) Why does your will save have a +8 misc? (+5 resistance, +1 Ioun Stone, +2 what?)
4) 







> Con: 24/28 (+13)



 24 is +7 mod, 28 is a +9 mod.. where'd you get +13 from?
Also, I think Obsidian is the one character I've seen so far that Whin has cause to fear.  You can actually hit me on a 16.  WITHOUT rage/frenzy.

Moritheil - I believe Cohorts would probably be same as PC's, halfway to their next level.  
(IE IF your cohort is 18th level, he would have 162,000 XP, needing 171,000 for lvl 19.)


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## Darimaus (Apr 22, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Oh, I also have another question for the DM:
> 
> [sblock]Are you ruling Sylph casting ability per RAW, or per standardized interpretation?
> 
> ...




I am more of a fan of using the second interpetation. I will employ that method for now, which means I will need to hear from anyone whos character is changed drastically by this.


----------



## moritheil (Apr 22, 2007)

So, I don't need to change things.  Great.  Thanks, Jemal and Darimaus!


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## Jemal (Apr 23, 2007)

*Just edited my char sheet a bit, didn't notice till now but I apparently hadn't chosen all of my spells.  Still have 1 6th lvl spell slot, I'm contemplating Shadow Walk or Disintegrate, any other ideas? (I'd like to get this chosen before it becomes important).


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 23, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Bloodweaver1 -
> 1) I'm pretty sure you've explained this before, but how's your weapon 2 sizes larger?  the Bracers give 1 size larger, but I don't see how you got the other one.
> 2) Why is your initiative mod +4 when your dex is +2?
> 3) Why does your will save have a +8 misc? (+5 resistance, +1 Ioun Stone, +2 what?)
> ...



 Again thanks for the scan!!
1. He is weilding the warhammer with two hands, not one. It is the same as weilding a Huge Maul (which is a two handed weapon). The max damage comes out to be the same (4d6 vs 3d8), I just did Garganuan for feel and effect. No if he took Monkey Grip...   
2. +2 Bonus from my Belt of Battle (Belt of Battle - Constant +2 competence bonus to initiative. Also, 3 charges per day, renewed at dawn, expendable as swift action as follows: 1 charge = 1 extra move action, 2 charges = extra standard action, 3 charges = extra full round action.)
3. +8 Misc Will Save (+5 resistance, +1 Ioun Stone, +2 Bonus from Rage)
4. You are correct. I have no idea how I got that number... must have copy pasted it from something else. Correct to reflex new Will save total of +18/+22.

Anything else?

-Blood


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 23, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Bloodweaver1 -
> Also, I think Obsidian is the one character I've seen so far that Whin has cause to fear.  You can actually hit me on a 16.  WITHOUT rage/frenzy.




Just wait till he starts taking levels in War Hulk.    

-Blood


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## Jemal (Apr 23, 2007)

Bloodweaver, a Couple things - 
First, don't forget your Con also affects HP and Fort save (sorry)
Second - I think you're confusing the Weapon Size rules...


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Weapon Size: Every weapon has a size category. This designation indicates the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed.
> A weapon’s size category isn’t the same as its size as an object. Instead, a weapon’s size category is keyed to the size of the intended wielder. In general, a light weapon is an object two size categories smaller than the wielder, a one-handed weapon is an object one size category smaller than the wielder, and a two-handed weapon is an object of the same size category as the wielder.
> Inappropriately Sized Weapons: A creature can’t make optimum use of a weapon that isn’t properly sized for it. A cumulative –2 penalty applies on attack rolls for each size category of difference between the size of its intended wielder and the size of its actual wielder. If the creature isn’t proficient with the weapon a –4 nonproficiency penalty also applies.
> The measure of how much effort it takes to use a weapon (whether the weapon is designated as a light, one-handed, or two-handed weapon for a particular wielder) is altered by one step for each size category of difference between the wielder’s size and the size of the creature for which the weapon was designed. If a weapon’s designation would be changed to something other than light, one-handed, or two-handed by this alteration, the creature can’t wield the weapon at all.



So according to that, wielding a 1-handed weapon (Warhammer) sized for a larger creature makes it two handed, yes, but also gives you a -2 on the attack roll.  Where'd you get the stats for a Great Maul, anyways? (If that actually exists, you'd be better off just using a Huge Great Maul)


----------



## moritheil (Apr 23, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> *Just edited my char sheet a bit, didn't notice till now but I apparently hadn't chosen all of my spells.  Still have 1 6th lvl spell slot, I'm contemplating Shadow Walk or Disintegrate, any other ideas? (I'd like to get this chosen before it becomes important).




Hmm, do we need the transport?  I don't know how you match up against constructs; do you need the power boost?


----------



## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 23, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Bloodweaver, a Couple things -I think you're confusing the Weapon Size rules...




Maybe I am. However, is a medium long sword a two handed weapon for a small creature?

What is the difference for a small creature when wielding a small great sword and medium long sword in two hands? 

The Maul can be found in the Complete Warrior. Towards the end of the book.

-Blood


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## Jemal (Apr 23, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> Maybe I am. However, is a medium long sword a two handed weapon for a small creature?
> 
> What is the difference for a small creature when wielding a small great sword and medium long sword in two hands?
> 
> ...




Well, according to the RAW, A Halfling wielding a Human-sized Long Sword must use it two-handed, and takes a -2 penalty to the attacks.  (I think the official reasoning is b/c the grips are designed for the wrong sized hand or something.)
Remember, though a human dagger and a halfling shortsword may be SIMILAR, they're not IDENTICAL.
I say go with the maul.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 23, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Hmm, do we need the transport?  I don't know how you match up against constructs; do you need the power boost?




Well, my character likes being able to get places quick, and while all the teleportation spells I have are handy, you need to KNOW where you're going first, or have been there.  Shadow Walk significantly increases overland movement (It's ~4X faster than my flight), but you don't know exactly where you're coming out.  You might end up slightly off target.

As for Disintegrate, I'm pretty sure my +22 Ranged Touch Attack can hit most things(And if not, I've got True Strike/Moment of Presience/Arcane Bost), but my DC would only be 26 fort for 5d6.  Failure means 40d6.  I don't like the massive difference in damage potential, I'm the kinda guy who prefers a more gauranteed avg than the possibility of a lot or the possibility of practically nothing (Same reason I hate save or die spells).

Anybody else think of good 6th lvl spells I could use?


----------



## Jemal (Apr 23, 2007)

OK, so I looked through the books I have with me for 6th lvl spells.  didn't find any, but I did find 3 lower level ones I want...
Greater Mighty Wallop (3rd lvl, RoDragon)... For 1hr/lvl, it increases my weapon damage to collosal size. (Goodbye bracers, goodbye Sizing weapon, hello money + extra damage).
Wings of Flurry (4th lvl, RoDragon)... 1d6/caster level force damage to everyone within 30' of me. (No damage cap).  +1 caster lvl if dragonblooded, so 22d6 force damage 30' radius. Reflex half.
Entangling Staff(4th lvl, C.Adv)... Wow.  Whenever you make a successful mellee attack with the enchanted staff, you deal normal damage AND get a free grapple check (At +8).  If you succeed you deal an extra 2d6 and have 2 options : A) Immediately release. B) Maintain hold and deal same damage next round.  If you release, the target is considered 'entangled' until the spell runs out (No save no sr), and you can attack other targets with no penalty.
I'm a staffwielder, and my grapple check is allready +37, this spell makes it +45. Hello +2d6 damage/attack.

So now I've got to finish my spell list before we get into a combat.  I'll probably end up dropping my open 6th lvl spell for one of these.  Maybe I can get another one of them too...


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## Rathan (Apr 23, 2007)

like you needed to be MORE badass my friend.. LOL.... I commend you on twinking the twinked LOL


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## moritheil (Apr 23, 2007)

Rathan said:
			
		

> like you needed to be MORE badass my friend.. LOL.... I commend you on twinking the twinked LOL




It's a never-ending quest!    

Jemal - I'm personally a fan of 6th level spells one can cast outside of combat.  Contingency, Geas, and Guards and Wards are all fun, though the last is probably not worth getting because we'll be moving around a lot (and it sounds like Whin has been moving around a lot for all his life.)

Wings of Flurry is really good, but you have to watch out or you'll wipe out your allies.  I found that to be a problem in the past.

Of course, you could always take disintegrate and just keep one in memory to deal with high-level undead.


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## Jemal (Apr 23, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> It's a never-ending quest!
> 
> Jemal - I'm personally a fan of 6th level spells one can cast outside of combat.  Contingency, Geas, and Guards and Wards are all fun, though the last is probably not worth getting because we'll be moving around a lot (and it sounds like Whin has been moving around a lot for all his life.)




Hey, I'm not THAT twinked.... Obsidian would kill me in 2 rounds in melee combat, unless I resort to my 'high end' tactics which are costly and I haven't revealed yet.  In which case it's 'mutually assured destruction'. 
And I can't cast 9th lvl spells like some of you.  Whin's all about balancing the best of both worlds, but not BEING the best of either.  
(The AC is what makes him look so powerful, and keep in mind that 20 points of my AC is from 2 spells which can be dispelled/Disjoined, which would drop me to under 40 AC.)



> Of course, you could always take disintegrate and just keep one in memory to deal with high-level undead.



True, Disintegrate>Undead.

I'm not entirely sure what I'll do yet, but i gotta decide quickly...

By tonight, then.


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## moritheil (Apr 24, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Also, I think Obsidian is the one character I've seen so far that Whin has cause to fear.




It's pretty funny that our meleers are the scary ones and our casters are all strictly second-tier.  That defies high-level DnD stereotypes.    

I was going to post up a question about wild shape, but I note that the DM said to Shayuri that going by old wildshape rules was OK.  Less headache for me!


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 24, 2007)

Very very true. A *decent* (not twinked but decent) high level caster can and will easily put down Obsidian. He is not well designed to take on casters. He is a nitched melee build designed to take on multiple other like melee targets. His only defense against casters is that he is immune to almost everything accept straight damage and his regeneration ring, which allows him to be "re-born" after the caster leaves. 

To truely shine, an Artificier is needed. Then his limites are endless.    

-Blood


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## moritheil (Apr 24, 2007)

True; depending on the circumstances and the rolls almost anyone could plausibly take out anyone else.  So much depends on circumstance.

As a side note, the main problem I have playing druids is that they are divine casters without divine metamagic.  So rather than optimize for combat glory, I decided early on that I was just going to fill holes in party composition (diviner and summoner, as it turns out.)  Ichiru may not be very imposing now, but I anticipate that epic magic could change that.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 24, 2007)

I do not know, Druids can offer some amazing party buffs. Obsidian would deffinately like the insane bonus to natural armor that they can give.   

-Blood


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## Brother Allard (Apr 24, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> As a side note, the main problem I have playing druids is that they are divine casters without divine metamagic.




Same with Archivist.  I seriously considered taking a level or two of Death Delver just for some turning, but I couldn't bring myself to interrupt my caster level progression.  I'll probably come to regret that.

The Archivist's spell selection is amazing - there are frankly a few _too_ many choices.  And I'm afraid I didn't quite that the time with it I should have.  Time will tell, I suppose.  But finding additional non-clerical and domain scrolls in game can be a pain, so I hope I did alright.


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## Jemal (Apr 24, 2007)

I don't think The Regen ring brings you back from dead.. that was 2e



> This white gold ring continually allows a living wearer to heal 1 point of damage per level every hour rather than every day. (This ability cannot be aided by the Heal skill.) Nonlethal damage heals at a rate of 1 point of damage per level every 5 minutes. If the wearer loses a limb, an organ, or any other body part while wearing this ring, the ring regenerates it as the spell. In either case, only damage taken while wearing the ring is regenerated.



It works like normal healing, except faster...


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## moritheil (Apr 24, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> It works like normal healing, except faster...




Yeah, that's why I was surprised that he wasn't immune to it.



			
				Bloodweaver said:
			
		

> I do not know, Druids can offer some amazing party buffs. Obsidian would deffinately like the insane bonus to natural armor that they can give.




Maybe in the future we'll switch the groups up.


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## Jemal (Apr 24, 2007)

Whoops sry, tired brain got the best of me, I thought I was talking about a completely diff. character..  

Actually, Bloodweaver, Obsidian isn't that bad against magic (Least not my brand, which IS straight damage).  You're underestimating him.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 24, 2007)

Sorry I'm so tardy in getting Nastasia finished; at the last minute I decided to switch out her Unicorn Companion for a Couatl Companion, which means I now have to stat up a casts-as-sorcerer spellcaster. Should be done soon -- Nastasia herself is pretty much done.


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## GlassEye (Apr 24, 2007)

I've been looking over all your characters since I've never played a game at this level before.  It's been quite instructional. 

Jemal, I'm curious about your character's AC.  I don't have all the sources you used and I can't figure out how you are able to add your Cha modifier to your AC.  What ability/item/spell/whatever allows that?  (I like to play lightly armored, high Cha types and I want in on some o' that!)


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## moritheil (Apr 25, 2007)

GlassEye said:
			
		

> I've been looking over all your characters since I've never played a game at this level before.  It's been quite instructional.
> 
> Jemal, I'm curious about your character's AC.




If you're worried about AC in general, I made an AC thread a while back.  Most of it is just flaming, but you might find some helpful hints there.


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## GlassEye (Apr 25, 2007)

Cool.  I'll slip on my asbestos suit and check it out.  Thanks.


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## Jemal (Apr 25, 2007)

As for the Cha to AC, note two things on my sheet.
MONK1, Feat: Aesetic Mage.  Monk normally allows you to add your Wis to AC.  Aesetic Mage is a monk/Sorc combo feat from Complete Adventurer that allows you to add your CHA instead of Wis.  It also allows monk+Sorc levels to stack for Monk AC bonus, and a couple other things (Unarmed damage/stunning fist i think).

Also if you're wondering about the +11 Armour and +9 Shield bonuses, Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage) allows me to add my class level in it (5) to any spell I cast that grants an Armour or Shield Bonus. (Greater Mage Armor=6+5=11, Shield=4+5=9).  I can also cast Abjurations as Swift Actions, and they're automatically extended.  As well as having a full base attack, good HP, and a 4/5 caster increase, it's a pretty powerful class.


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## Jemal (Apr 25, 2007)

Moritheil - If anything re: Twinking comes up in the future and you need a hand defending, I'd love to help.  I wish I was around when that thread surfaced, I could've blown'em outta the water.  AC ~120 Core @ lvl 20!!!!!!!!  i'd LOVE to see a character @ lvl 20 with a better than +100 attack bonus.


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## GlassEye (Apr 25, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> As for the Cha to AC, note two things on my sheet.
> MONK1, Feat: Aesetic Mage...




Ah, I see!  Thanks for the explanation.  I noticed the monk level but overlooked Aescetic Mage.  I pored over Abjurant Champion (I agree, a _sweet_ class) and figured out that part of it but thanks for the breakdown.


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## moritheil (Apr 25, 2007)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Moritheil - If anything re: Twinking comes up in the future and you need a hand defending, I'd love to help.  I wish I was around when that thread surfaced, I could've blown'em outta the water.  AC ~120 Core @ lvl 20!!!!!!!!  i'd LOVE to see a character @ lvl 20 with a better than +100 attack bonus.




Thanks.      I'm just continually amazed that "common sense" dictates vastly different things to different people ostensibly working with the same rules.

There's no arguing with people who both hate and fear something and stubbornly refuse to make any effort to understand it, so I abandoned that thread early on. 


GlassEye, what Jemal is doing may be considered a case of eliminating MAD.  MAD (multiple ability dependency) is a problem because raising three stats to competitive levels is obviously harder than raising just one.  It might be considered an overall thing to watch for in builds.


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## Jemal (Apr 25, 2007)

Moritheil - A new thread popped up over in the D&D Rules Forum, RE: AC.  They were trying to figure out a high core AC, and were sitting at 64 @ lvl 20, so I walked in a halfling monk/duelist w/ 90.  Check it out.

The funny part is it's a 3-stat character, *L*


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## moritheil (Apr 25, 2007)

Amusing.  Someone referenced my earlier thread, too.


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## Jemal (Apr 25, 2007)

I noticed.  We should stop hijacking, though..


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## Kafkonia (Apr 25, 2007)

When advancing my Couatl companion by HD, I increase his "Casts spells as an x-level caster" abilities as well, yes? The only example I can find in the MM, lammasu, has been advanced in that manner.


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## Darimaus (Apr 25, 2007)

Kafkonia said:
			
		

> When advancing my Couatl companion by HD, I increase his "Casts spells as an x-level caster" abilities as well, yes? The only example I can find in the MM, lammasu, has been advanced in that manner.




sounds right to me.


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## Darimaus (Apr 25, 2007)

I would like to get an idea of the number of players still in this game, still interested in being in this game, ect. So I'm slapping down a quick roll call. If everyone could put up a single post in the OOC thread saying 1234567890, I'd really appreciate it.


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## Avalon® (Apr 25, 2007)

1234567890


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## Jemal (Apr 25, 2007)

*You realize you posted this in both threads, right?*
1234567890


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## Brother Allard (Apr 25, 2007)

I'm here.  And, uh: 3.


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## Voidrazor (Apr 25, 2007)

4 or 1234567890. Whichever, I'm here.


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## Shayuri (Apr 25, 2007)

Me 2!


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## moritheil (Apr 25, 2007)

Heh.  He posted in all the threads, but he asked for replies in the OOC thread.  Which I took to mean not this one, but the one he titled "OOC Thread."

Darimaus, I'd really like to get a luck blade with part of my remaining cash, but I have to wield daggers thanks to Daggerspell Shaper.  Is it okay to use the cost of a luckblade and adjust my daggers?  

[sblock=luckblade]This +2 short sword gives its possessor a +1 luck bonus on all saving throws. Its possessor also gains the power of good fortune, usable once per day. This extraordinary ability allows its possessor to reroll one roll that she just made. She must take the result of the reroll, even if it’s worse than the original roll. In addition, a luck blade may contain up to three wishes (when randomly rolled, a luck blade holds 1d4-1 wishes, minimum 0). When the last wish is used, the sword remains a +2 short sword, still grants the +1 luck bonus, and still grants its reroll power.

Strong evocation; CL 17th; Craft Magic Arms and Armor, wish or miracle; Price 22,060 gp (0 wishes)[/sblock]

Price of MW short sword: 310 gp
Price of MW dagger: 302 gp

I will therefore assume that a luck blade dagger with +2 would be 22,052 gp, and build accordingly.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 25, 2007)

Okay, I still have a couple of things to do (such as figuring out what hit die the Healer uses, I knew I forgot to jot something down this morning) but if anyone wants to take a look at Nastasia and her sidekick here and give them the once over, I'd appreciate it. I want to get into the game.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 25, 2007)

Sigh.... After further research and great fustration it has become blarring obvious that I was *completely wrong *  in my understanding that the Ring of Regeneration would work on Obsidian. The only thing it would do is replace its non-existing healing rate with that of the rings 20hps per hour. However, it will not replace lost limbs as that part of the ring works like the spell which he is immune too. 

Soooooo.... staying within the creation rules given, I am now in search for some kind of hit point  increase or stabilization or regeneration that works on construct-like creatures..... SIGH!

Will have some kind of remedy shortly.... hopefully....

-Blood


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## moritheil (Apr 26, 2007)

[sblock=DM]Another sylph question - I read the sylph "casts as sorc" to be not actual sorc levels. Since they get no familiar they can't take tradeoffs that swap out a familiar.  Is this right?

My interpretations of sylph tend to be conservative, so I'm just checking.[/sblock]


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 26, 2007)

I think I got it!!!

[Sblock=Wrathful Healing]This enchantment can only be placed on a melee weapon, creating positive energy that flows to its wielder. When the weapons deals damage to a creature, the wielder heals a number of hit points equal to half the damage dealt. If the wielder already has full hit points, there is no effect. Because the weapon channels positive energy, it damages an undead wielder instead.
Caster Level: 15th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, regenerate; Market Price: +3 bonus.[/sblock]That would change my current weapon from:
+5 Starmetal Huge Holy, Sonic, Acid Maul   with the following attack chain +42/42/37/32/27 and damage 3d8+34 (+2d6+1d6+1d6) (Starmetal +1d6 vs Outsiders)

to

+4 Starmetal Huge Holy, Wraithful Healing Maul with the following attack chain +41/41/36/31/26 and damage 3d8+34 (+2d6) (Starmetal +1d6 vs Outsiders)

Darimaus, is this an acceptable weapon enchantment? It comes from the Enemies & Allies, the page 20 sidebar.

You state any WoTC hardcover.   

-Blood


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## Jemal (Apr 26, 2007)

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> I think I got it!!!
> 
> [Sblock=Wrathful Healing]This enchantment can only be placed on a melee weapon, creating positive energy that flows to its wielder. When the weapons deals damage to a creature, the wielder heals a number of hit points equal to half the damage dealt. If the wielder already has full hit points, there is no effect. Because the weapon channels positive energy, it damages an undead wielder instead.
> Caster Level: 15th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, regenerate; Market Price: +3 bonus.[/sblock]
> ...




Sonofa.. i've been wanting something like that for EVER!!!


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## Nephtys (Apr 26, 2007)

But do constructs benefit from positive energy? It seems to me that if you get no benefit from healing spells (=positive energy), you'd get no benefit from wrathful healing (=positive energy). Maybe there's a loophole, but it seems a bit wrong to me.
Otoh, that's a terribly broken weapon enchantment for almost any other type of melee fighting character, so maybe I'll use it on Yashar's main weapon.


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 26, 2007)

But he is not a construct. He is a "living construct" immune to spells from the healing sub-school. The description could have read "Immune to positive energy" like it does in regard with negitive energy, but it does not. Positive energy is not a spell but just raw energy that effects all living things. And he still a living creature. I agree its treading the line but it reads like it would work. Unless I am missing something. 

This also leaves me with about 90K to go spend on. /sigh Shopping can get sooo boring. 

-Blood


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## Nephtys (Apr 26, 2007)

Good point, and you certainly do need some source of healing. Anyway, I may be going up against a Hellfire Wyrm and its (mostly land-based) army in a round or so. So do you mind if I steal your idea and use that weapons enchantment? I think I'm going to need it.


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## Jemal (Apr 26, 2007)

I think I'm gonna stay away from it... for this game, at least.  Whin doesn't need healing. (I hope)

PS.. pair with Viscious to completely negate the downside! (Viscious =+2d6 damage, but you take 1d6.  With Wrathful healing, the avg from the 2d6 you deal/2 = avg of 1d6 you deal self, then heal self.

MIC had a vampiric weapon enhancement that's a +2, and only gives 1d6 healing when you hit, and I was very tempted to use it.

EDIT: From now on my high-lvl melee fighters will be wielding +1 Vampiric Viscious Speed GreatSword of Wrathful Healing.  5d6+1.5Xstr damage + 1, deal self 1d6, heal 1d6+half damage dealt.
With a 30 str and weapon spec, that's.... avg of deal 36 damage, take 3 damage, and heal 21 damage.. So total you deal 35 damage and heal 18... on avg.


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## Kafkonia (Apr 26, 2007)

I hate to do this, especially after I just reposted my intention to join, but I think that I've fallen to far behind the game and have too much left to do to finish up my character -- so I won't be continuing on after all.  One of these days I'll learn that I'm not cut out for high level gaming...


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## Voidrazor (Apr 26, 2007)

Unkabear said:
			
		

> I feel a little Dirty, but that is a Dragonball refrence.  And for some reason I just can't see our characters merging...would be funny though.  would that mean that you would add invisiblility and SA to your attacks?




Sorry I didn't reply earlier, and I suppose its probably moot at the point. But yes the fused being gets racial and class abilities (and spells etc.) of both participants.


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## Rathan (Apr 26, 2007)

1234567890 for me darimaus..... sorry I haven't posted in a couple days.. my monitor blowed up on me the other night and I needed to wait for my direct deposit from work to get a new one.... I'm back now and will post very soon with Meekor...

- Rathan


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## Bloodweaver1 (Apr 27, 2007)

Finally finished with all of the last minute modifications. 
If someone wants to look it over and make sure I dotted all 'I's and crossed all the 'T's, I would be appreciatitive. Thanks!

-Blood


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## Nephtys (Apr 28, 2007)

I'm almost finished too. I just need to find that rule about buying off LA with XPs. If I find that rule it's going to change my character quite a bit.

edit:
I found the rule, but to figure out what it would do for my character I need to know what's the xp point requirement for levels 18 and 19 are. Can someone with the DMG please let me know?

edit again:
Can't use it, since creature HDs don't count to the levels that allow buyoff...


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