# Did I do the right thing?



## KenM (Apr 16, 2005)

Ok, I broke it off with the girl I have been seeing because she does ALOT of pot. She would just drink alcohol or light one up in the car while she was driving. I saw her do this a number of times, I was in the car with her. She knew that I have dealt with drug uers in the past and have a really negitive view of them. She did not care, I tried to talk to her about it but she would keep doing it.  I'm very concerned that she will kill someone, so I called all the local police departments and told them to watch out for Her. I gave them her address, car type/ tag number, name, cell phone number since she does not have a regular phone line. 
Did I do the right thing?


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## der_kluge (Apr 16, 2005)

Unequivocably, absolutely.

It's a shame that sometimes people that you love go down that path, but the fact that her boyfriend has left her because of her habits should be the first sign for her. I doubt she will even notice.

Only she can ask for help, and it sounds like it will get worse before it gets better.


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## KenM (Apr 16, 2005)

I'm pretty upset about this. When we first met, she told me she USED to do pot, and she was done. Last Sept. for some reason she went back to it. I had the best times of my life with her until I found out she was using again. I'm not even sure she stopped. She might have just been screwing with me. In the end though its her loss, she choose the drugs over me.   Thanks for letting me vent, Enworlders.


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## Crothian (Apr 16, 2005)

You did fine, it is tough but the right thing to do.


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## IronWolf (Apr 16, 2005)

As tough as it is it sounds to me like you did the right thing.  It takes a lot to make the right decision sometimes.


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## Tewligan (Apr 16, 2005)

So, were you still having a good time with her while she was using and you didn't know about it?


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## KenM (Apr 16, 2005)

Now that I think about it, I don't think she was using when we first met. After she started to use again she was _different_. Thats the only way to put it. At first I thought I could tolerate her use of it, but thats all she would do whenever we got together, so I know she has a problem.  The last thing someone that loves someone wants to see is that person hurting themself.


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## loki44 (Apr 16, 2005)

(Okay, I'll play devil's advocate...)

You dirty rat.  Snitchin' ain't never cool.

Having said that, everything is measured in degrees.  Did she cross the line?  I dunno (not enough info).  If she did/does.....more power to ya.  But are you sure you weren't being spiteful in your decision to snitch?  What else did she do to you?  Is she really public enemy #1 or do you have a hidden agenda?  If you feel in your heart that you did what's "right", then why do you feel bad?


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## Mystery Man (Apr 16, 2005)

Boy I tell ya, pot smokers are getting pretty brave lately. I've seen 3 different people light up on one of those tiny little pot pipes in traffic in the last 3 months. What the heck gives man?

And yeah, dropping her was a good idea, until she's serious about quitting your better off without the aggrivation.


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## KenM (Apr 16, 2005)

She has not done anything to me, really, except be really neurotic. But the reason I called to police was because EVERYTIME we got in her car to go soemplace, she would either pop open a beer or light a joint while driving, so i know she did it all the time. She had no respect for me. I'm subject to random drug tests at my job, the only thing she cared about was getting high.


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## Mystery Man (Apr 16, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She has not done anything to me, really, except be really neurotic.




A neurotic pot smoker? Let me get over my shock! 



			
				KenM said:
			
		

> But the reason I called to police was because EVERYTIME we got in her car to go soemplace, she would either pop open a beer or light a joint while driving, so i know she did it all the time. She had no respect for me. I'm subject to random drug tests at my job, the only thing she cared about was getting high.




Yeah, thats not cool.


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## loki44 (Apr 16, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She has not done anything to me, really, except be really neurotic. But the reason I called to police was because EVERYTIME we got in her car to go soemplace, she would either pop open a beer or light a joint while driving, so i know she did it all the time. She had no respect for me. I'm subject to random drug tests at my job, the only thing she cared about was getting high.





Okay, for legal purposes, all illegal activities are alleged.  So, she's neurotic and inconsiderate of the fact that you're subject to random drug tests and she's not.  I'd say you did the right thing based on the "neurotic" observation.  Still not sure what you're sweatin' here bro.....


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## loki44 (Apr 16, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Boy I tell ya, pot smokers are getting pretty brave lately. I've seen 3 different people light up on one of those tiny little pot pipes in traffic in the last 3 months. What the heck gives man?




I guess the "War on Drugs" has been dropped in favor of some other just War.


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## BSF (Apr 16, 2005)

You absolutely did the right thing.  It isn't always easy to do the right thing and it is hard to bail on somebody that you once cared for.  But you are talking about somebody that is getting high off pot or alcohol while driving.  Slowed reaction times alone are a risk.  

Narcing somebody out to the cops probably doesn't feel good, but how would you feel if you didn't say anything and found out she ran somebody over while high?  Are you feeling like you didn't do enough to help her?  In the end, all you can do is offer encouragement to seek help.  She has to choose to seek and accept help herself.  

I'm sorry you lost a girlfriend over it, but given the options it seems like you were out of choices.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 16, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She has not done anything to me, really, except be really neurotic. But the reason I called to police was because EVERYTIME we got in her car to go soemplace, she would either pop open a beer or light a joint while driving, so i know she did it all the time. She had no respect for me. I'm subject to random drug tests at my job, the only thing she cared about was getting high.





You were right to dump her. She doesn't seem to give a crap about you at all. Just getting high and drunk was all she cared about. Sometimes it takes "tough love" to try to straighten someone out.... Maybe if she got caught, she *might* get help. Might. Or else she'd be totally pissed at you. But then you're done with her and it now goes under, "oh, well"...


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## Staffan (Apr 16, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> Did she cross the line?



Where I'm coming from, chugging booze and smoking pot *while driving* is pretty frickin' far across the line.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 16, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> Where I'm coming from, chugging booze and smoking pot *while driving* is pretty frickin' far across the line.





Not to mention several degrees of illegal.

In the extreme.

I don't know what DWI classifies as.... if it's actually a felony but I know drug possession is one.


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## reanjr (Apr 16, 2005)

By breaking it off?  Sure, if you feel that strongly about it.  Notifying police and indicating that she is a danger to society?  That's kind of... weird.  And unfriendly.

Doctors prescribe medication all the time to people that impairs them for driving much more than marijuana ever could.  And they don't notify the police that this person might be a danger.

Alcohol is certainly not a good mix with driving, but to be honest, unless you're rip roaring drunk or it's the middle of the day, most drunk drivers do just fine.  They're waaay more likely to injure themselves than to injure others, especially at 3AM with no traffic about.  And isn't that their prerogitive?

I guess it all depends on context how dangerous she is on the road, but I still think calling th police is just overdoing it.

Not to mention, unless this is some podunk police department with less than a half dozen officers, I highly doubt they're going to do anything at all about the call. [edit] or a private police force


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## Del (Apr 16, 2005)

I love drinking in the streets, but never ever should anyone drink and drive. You did the right thing man.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 16, 2005)

> Alcohol is certainly not a good mix with driving, but to be honest, unless you're rip roaring drunk or it's the middle of the day, most drunk drivers do just fine. They're waaay more likely to injure themselves than to injure others, especially at 3AM with no traffic about. And isn't that their prerogitive?




Au contraire, you usually hear alot about drunk drivers who seriously hurt or kill others due to their stupidity yet they WALK AWAY. Or should I say, "stagger"? But they're less apt to get hurt due to being more relaxed from all the booze. You're just basically condoning people to get out and drink and drive, just 'cause you say "they'll do just fine". That's a load of horse manure if I ever heard anything! They are the main causes of accidents out on the road late at night, usually doing far more damage and harm to others just because they're a bunch of stupid, ignorant assheads who don't care about who they hurt just because they're too stupid to either call a cab or call home or get a buddy to take them home! And then they have to live with the consequences of their actions for the rest of their lives, especially if they hurt or kill others.... This is just plain wrong. If you're gonna drink, be responsible. If you're gonna get totally drunk, make sure you have some other means of getting home or crashing at the place you're at. There is NO EXCUSE.


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## reanjr (Apr 16, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Boy I tell ya, pot smokers are getting pretty brave lately. I've seen 3 different people light up on one of those tiny little pot pipes in traffic in the last 3 months. What the heck gives man?




Many people I know are forced to drive and smoke because of the limited number of places available to smoke.

Besides, it's become decriminalized throughout the world.  Police forces don't even want to deal with it because the law is so petty when there are other important laws to enforce.  On several occasions, I've seen or heard from people who have seen, officers stop someone from smoking in their car (parked) or in a public place, but all they do is make sure the stuff is thrown out and, if there is one, take the pipe away.

If you include underage drinkers, and people who go to the doctor to get a prescription when they don't really need it, it seems half the country (US) are or were illegal drug users.  Marijuana use has become fairly accepted and will only continue to be more accepted as the years go by.  I'd put money that, in Michigan (where I live), it will be decriminalized within a generation.  Canada (Ontario) already did so and I think our proximity to several major metropolitan areas up there will slowly influence public opinion.

Oh, and the pipes are generally referred to as bowls even though the term technically only applies to the area of the pipe that the marijuana is placed in.  I think this is primarily to distinguish it from a traditional tobacco pipe.  Glass pipe is probably the correct way to describe the particular illicitly used variety of pipe.  Though this can then create confusion with the pipe varieties used for smoking crack.


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## reanjr (Apr 16, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Au contraire...




This of course depends on whether one is referring to drunk as a legal or descriptive term.  Not to mention the state-to-state differences in what defines drunk.  I know plenty of people who can be legally drunk and suffer no measurable impairment to their faculties (I am not one of them).  I even know one alcoholic whose faculties are impaired when sober, but not once he has a few drinks in him.


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## Torm (Apr 16, 2005)

I'd say you almost certainly did the right thing. Anybody irresponsible enough to drive while high is not someone you want to entrust any part of your future to if you can help it. It does suck though, when you see someone worth saving, but they won't save themselves. And _you_ can't if they won't meet you halfway.  

_Last night I tried to leave. Cried so much I could not believe, she was the same girl I fell in love with long ago. She went in the back to get high, I sat out on the couch and cried out, 'oh mama, please help me - won't you hold my hand.'_ - "Let Her Cry" by Hootie and the Blowfish


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## loki44 (Apr 16, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> Where I'm coming from, chugging booze and smoking pot *while driving* is pretty frickin' far across the line.





Again, all illegal activities as outlined in these posts are alleged and therefore of no consequence to me.....my point simply being that nothing in any relationship is ever as simple as any given whatever that elicits a kneejerk reaction.  The guy obviously didn't feel threatened enough by her behavior to do anything about it during the time that he wanted to be with her (i.e. he wasn't threatened enough by her behavior to get out of the car or do anything about it "a number of times" since, by his own admission, it happened "a number of times").  He only decided to report her to the cops after the relationship didn't work for him anymore.  Just sounds like sour grapes to me.  I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion but the fact that he decided to report her to the cops only after he no longer had any personal stake in the relationship seems to me to be self-serving, vindictive, petty and disingenuous.


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## Torm (Apr 16, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> Just sounds like sour grapes to me.  I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion but the fact that he decided to report her to the cops only after he no longer had any personal stake in the relationship seems to me to be self-serving, vindictive, petty and disingenuous.



I'll grant that I can see what you're saying, but I don't think you're empathisizing with his situation quite enough. If you're right about the motive, that would be horrible, but it seems to me (and I could be wrong, only KenM knows for sure) that he had held out hope that he could redeem his situation with her, and her from the abuse, up until he couldn't any longer, and the same logic and feeling that led him to the conclusion that it was time to break things off was identical to the logic and feeling that led him to decide he needed to make her abuse someone else's problem to fix (like the po-po).

I know there are problems with that chain of logic, but aren't there always when you're _trying_ to be in love with someone? Self-delusion, etc.

BTW: My compliments on the set of adjectives at the end of your post. Seriously. But you forgot 'callow'.


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 16, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> Where I'm coming from, chugging booze and smoking pot *while driving* is pretty frickin' far across the line.



Agreed. You definitely did the right thing KenM.


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## d20Dwarf (Apr 16, 2005)

I'm appalled by the number of people in this thread that think it's "uncool" to report drunk drivers. How cool would it be if a drunk driver killed someone you care about, even if that only applies to yourself?


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## Pbartender (Apr 16, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> Again, all illegal activities as outlined in these posts are alleged and therefore of no consequence to me.....my point simply being that nothing in any relationship is ever as simple as any given whatever that elicits a kneejerk reaction.  The guy obviously didn't feel threatened enough by her behavior to do anything about it during the time that he wanted to be with her (i.e. he wasn't threatened enough by her behavior to get out of the car or do anything about it "a number of times" since, by his own admission, it happened "a number of times").  He only decided to report her to the cops after the relationship didn't work for him anymore.  Just sounds like sour grapes to me.  I'm sure it's an unpopular opinion but the fact that he decided to report her to the cops only after he no longer had any personal stake in the relationship seems to me to be self-serving, vindictive, petty and disingenuous.




Man, that sounds like the closing statement of a defense attorney.


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## Mark (Apr 16, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> I'm appalled by the number of people in this thread that think it's "uncool" to report drunk drivers. How cool would it be if a drunk driver killed someone you care about, even if that only applies to yourself?




I've only skimmed the thread but it seems the first person who thought it to be "uncool" only felt that way from September until April, at which point it became, if not "cool", at least a civic duty.  So much so that a single call would not do.  Apparently each and every law enforcement facility in the area needed to be contacted because something changed in April to bring this threat to the fore.  Does one now follow up with the media to ensure that law enforcement brings swift action?  Personally, I find the timing to be convenient to other interests than those of the community.  As to being about getting drunks off of the road, one could sit outside a tavern on any given night with a cellphone and make half a dozen calls that could save a life if one had a mind to do so.  It remains to be seen if KenM's civic-mindedness spills over into May.


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## reanjr (Apr 16, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> I'm appalled by the number of people in this thread that think it's "uncool" to report drunk drivers. How cool would it be if a drunk driver killed someone you care about, even if that only applies to yourself?




It's fine to report an incident as it happens (like I just saw this guy walk out of the bar trashed and get in his car, he's driving down Main St East from Johnny's Pub), but I don't think it is appropriate to call the police and tell them about someone you feel is a habitual lawbreaker (I see this one guy, license OMG 123, always drives drunk from Johnny's Pub).


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## tarchon (Apr 16, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> I'm appalled by the number of people in this thread that think it's "uncool" to report drunk drivers. How cool would it be if a drunk driver killed someone you care about, even if that only applies to yourself?



Well, he didn't actually report her while she was drunk driving - he "called all the local police departments and told them to watch out for Her" 

("All cars in Springfield, Hooterville, Hazzard County, and Schmoetown, be on the lookout for Jane Smith whenever she happens to be driving around because it's entirely possible she could be intoxicated!"  What exactly are they going to do with that?) 

I agree with the people who say there's a lot more to this than simply reporting a random drunk driver, both practically and ethically. I'd be the first call to call the cops on some drunk behind the wheel, but that's a long, long way from calling numerous local police departments and telling them to "watch out for" the girl you just broke up with. 

More here than the eye spies.


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## the Jester (Apr 16, 2005)

If you can't hang with her lifestyle, you absolutely did the right thing in breaking it off.

If you wouldn't turn her in when you were with her, then you're likely doing it out of bitterness now, even if only subconsciously.  Bad move, imho.  You've certainly shot any chance of things getting better between you, and if you really care about her you prolly shouldn't have burned your bridges.


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## Bloodstone Press (Apr 16, 2005)

KenM said a few things in his first post that I think a few people have overlooked: 


> She knew that I have dealt with drug uers in the past and have a really negitive view of them. She did not care, I tried to talk to her about it but she would keep doing it. I'm very concerned that she will kill someone,




 We don't know what he means by "dealt with drug uers in the past " but since he has "a really negitive view of them" and this girl seems to not care, I have to conclude that she is not very smart. Also, anyone who drinks while driving is stoopid. And trust me, when it comes to drunks, I've seen and done a lot of stupid stuff. But I would never get in the car, open a beer and start driving around town. 

  80% of all automobile deaths in America involve alcohol (according to my business law professor). If you've ever tried to drive while drunk, you know why your shouldn't do that. Speed seems much slower than it actually is, your reaction time is impared and you are clumsy. Anyone who thinks they can drive like that are fooling themselves and putting all other drivers at risk. 

  Not to mention the legal risk.

 In my opinion, that girl is headed for a troubled life and I wouldn't want to spend a whole lot of time with her. As for calling all the cops..... I don't know. I can't really comment on it without getting politcal.


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## Mystery Man (Apr 16, 2005)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> Man, that sounds like the closing statement of a defense attorney.



Or a troll.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 16, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I'd say you almost certainly did the right thing. Anybody irresponsible enough to drive while high is not someone you want to entrust any part of your future to if you can help it. It does suck though, when you see someone worth saving, but they won't save themselves. And _you_ can't if they won't meet you halfway.
> 
> _Last night I tried to leave. Cried so much I could not believe, she was the same girl I fell in love with long ago. She went in the back to get high, I sat out on the couch and cried out, 'oh mama, please help me - won't you hold my hand.'_ - "Let Her Cry" by Hootie and the Blowfish





True, Torm. If the other person can't meet halfway, then there's not much you can do.... And knowing where you come from on this sort of issue.....

Fitting song.


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## haiiro (Apr 16, 2005)

I agree that you did the right thing by breaking up with her, Ken. As far as reporting to the police -- that's a tough one. Without knowing more background, I'd have to say I wouldn't have done that -- it just isn't my style.

Do _you_ feel like reporting her was the right thing to do, or is it giving you the willies now that it's done?


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## Bryan898 (Apr 16, 2005)

I think you definetely did the right move.  There seems to be little to stay in the relationship for if she's doing something that causes that much of a problem.

Exactly what do you people consider drunk driving?  The way I understand it she's drinking maybe a beer while she's driving, but not plastered.  It's not exactly the best or brightest thing to do, but it seems like it's being blown out of proportion.  Maybe I'm reading it wrong.  We don't really have public transportation where I'm from, and people drive after drinking one or two beers all the time.  There's a Huge difference between legally drunk and actually being drunk.  That being said, I'm completely 100% against people driving while drunk, but think the legal limit is ridiculous.  

An interesting thing I've noticed, people often rant about irresponsible people drunk driving, but you never hear them complain about people driving while tired.  I hear about accidents all the time where someone was tired and swerved into the other lane, or ran off the road into a tree.


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## fusangite (Apr 16, 2005)

Ken,

Have you seen studies on marijuana use and driving? It is generally considered that THC does very little to impair driving. And, in some cases, appears to enhance certain positive behaviours in motorists. But that's hardly the point.

But that's really to side issue. Here's what I see: I see a man who has no problem _being driven by his girlfriend for months_ when she's drinking or smoking pot but the moment he is no longer getting sex from this woman decides to try and get her thrown in jail. Now, maybe it was your decision to break off the relationship; maybe it was mutual; doesn't really matter from where I'm sitting. What I see is a guy who breaks up with a girl and then immediately tries to get her driver's license and possibly her freedom taken away. And that doesn't exactly sound admirable, does it?

But before I really lay into you, what I really need to know is this: did you give this woman any prior warning of your intention to take these extreme (and to my view, vindictive) measures before you broke up with her?

Also, the other thing I need to know: you say this woman's pot consumption was excessive but you said nothing of her level of alcohol use. How far over the legal limit was she when driving? A little? A lot? Not at all? As far as I know, two Canadian beers (probably 4 American ones) isn't really enough to put you over the limit on a full stomach so I'm curious there too. Do you view her alcohol use as excessive simply because of her marijuana usa?


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## loki44 (Apr 16, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> I'm appalled by the number of people in this thread that think it's "uncool" to report drunk drivers. How cool would it be if a drunk driver killed someone you care about, even if that only applies to yourself?





Whether it is cool or uncool isn't the point.  I for one am certainly not advocating driving while under the influence.  Not only is it illegal, but it's also stupid.  What I was trying to get at was that his approach was all wrong.  I wasn't trying to take a shot at KenM, but rather trying to get him to think about what his real motives were in doing what he did and why he felt bad about it.


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## Krieg (Apr 16, 2005)

FWIW Jester's post reflects my thoughts almost verbatim.



			
				Bloodstone Press said:
			
		

> 80% of all automobile deaths in America involve alcohol (according to my business law professor).




Your prof should know better than to deliberate misuse statistics.

Oh wait he's a _law_ professor, misquotes & abuse of statistics is a prerequisite....


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## KenM (Apr 16, 2005)

I have no problem with people smoking at a party or in they're own home, but when you are doing it while driving, thats a totally different thing, IMO. Also, unde Mass. Law, if you have an open bottle/ can in the car, it is considered drunk driving. So no, she was not fall down drunk, but if we got pulled over, it would have been considered drunk driving. 
Also, she did not start doing this stuff with me until we were friends/ seeing each other for like 8 months. So she was not doing it when we first met. Something happened inside her so she did it in front of me, I tried to give her a chance, but she kept doing it. I'm not sure if she just "snapped" and she started agian, or she was hiding it from me all along and not truthful with me. Because that was the person I fell in love with, not the drug user.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I have no problem with people smoking at a party or in they're own home, but when you are doing it while driving, thats a totally different thing, IMO. Also, unde Mass. Law, if you have an open bottle/ can in the car, it is considered drunk driving. So no, she was not fall down drunk, but if we got pulled over, it would have been considered drunk driving.




Same here in North Carolina.




> Also, she did not start doing this stuff with me until we were friends/ seeing each other for like 8 months. So she was not doing it when we first met. Something happened inside her so she did it in front of me, I tried to give her a chance, but she kept doing it. I'm not sure if she just "snapped" and she started agian, or she was hiding it from me all along and not truthful with me. Because that was the person I fell in love with, not the drug user.




Maybe she thought you'd be cool with it.... ::shrug:: Or else hiding it until she got to know you better....


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## fusangite (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I have no problem with people smoking at a party or in they're own home, but when you are doing it while driving, thats a totally different thing, IMO. Also, unde Mass. Law, if you have an open bottle/ can in the car, it is considered drunk driving. So no, she was not fall down drunk, but if we got pulled over, it would have been considered drunk driving.



That's true. But you're billing this as being about safety so questions of legality are neither here nor there. My question remains: was she actually consuming enough alcohol to actually exceed an appropriate blood-alcohol level or not? Was she driving in a way that actually endangered people? Or are you just looking at a way to punish someone who chose drug use over you? 

I think I'm seeing your reasoning here: this person chose their drug use over me; therefore one of two things must be true: (a) I'm so unloveable that someone would choose being stoned over being with me or (b) this person is so severely and debilitatingly addicted that I'm just a minor casuality compared to all the damage she is in danger of doing. It's nice that you have sufficiently high self-esteem that you have clearly chosen (b) over (a)... well, nice for you anyway. 

You're obviously bothered by this woman's chronic stoner lifestyle and confronted her over it several times, eventually upping the ante to the point where you said "it's me or the drugs." She chose the drugs. 

But just because she is driving in an illegal way, it does not follow that she is driving in an impaired way.







> Also, she did not start doing this stuff with me until we were friends/ seeing each other for like 8 months. So she was not doing it when we first met. Something happened inside her so she did it in front of me,



Yeah. She decided to trust that you would accept her, addiction and all. Sadly, you didn't. And now you're so angry that she won't sacrifice her addiction for you that you're willing to try and send her to jail.







> I tried to give her a chance, but she kept doing it. I'm not sure if she just "snapped" and she started agian, or she was hiding it from me all along and not truthful with me. Because that was the person I fell in love with, not the drug user.



The person you fell in love with was the facade any addict erects when they meet someone they don't believe to also be an addict. 

We like to think that everyone who is addicted to a drug or activity is harmful to themselves and others because that's what drug war propagandists want us to believe. But that's crap. Go and read _Peaceful Measures_ by Bruce Alexander and it can give you a picture of how many addicts manage their addictions just fine without harming others.

Yeah. It sucks to discover that given a choice between their addiction and you, a person would choose their addiction. But it does not follow that this person will choose their addiction over the lives of innocent pedestrians; and you certainly haven't presented us any evidence of her actually doing so. I find it odd that after three posts, you have yet to offer one example of dangerous driving, carelessness or disregard for others' lives on the part of your ex.


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## KenM (Apr 18, 2005)

Ok, while not endagering anyone per se, When she lit up the joint or opened the bottle while driving with me in the car, I asked her to wait until we got to the place we were going. She said she could not wait, every time, even though she knew i was uncomfortable with her doing it while driving with me there.  
Also when we first met, I told her about my past and how I have a bad view of drug users and if she did drugs, it would not work. But she choose to totally ignore my feelings one day and just start doing it. I think she was hiding it from me. She started to do it in front of me even though she knew I would reject her, up until the point I saw her using, everything was great, but she knew it would change things and did not care. Like I said before, if she was just doing it in private, ect, I would not have called police, but doing it while driving is endagering people, thats why. 
Also, how come the only people that say "pot is harmless, it does not make you do anything bad." Are the people that use it?


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## Torm (Apr 18, 2005)

I cannot honestly believe there are people defending driving while imbibing impairing substances on this thread!

_...attempts to disbelieve, rolls a 19, adds 53 from Will Save bonus, succeeds..._

So, what were we _actually_ talking about?


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## fusangite (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Ok, while not endagering anyone per se,



So, we've agreed that public safety is not your motive here.







> When she lit up the joint or opened the bottle while driving with me in the car, I asked her to wait until we got to the place we were going. She said she could not wait, every time, even though she knew i was uncomfortable with her doing it while driving with me there.



Sounds like one of two things is true: (a) she was telling the truth and really _needs_ these drugs ie. she's an addict or (b) she was lying and was basically just callous and uncaring or mean and passive-aggressive.







> Also when we first met, I told her about my past and how I have a bad view of drug users and if she did drugs, it would not work.



Sounds like her dishonesty really really hurt you. Obviously she either did it because she has a pretty strong dependency and figured that she liked you so much that she hoped you would change your mind about this or she did it because she was callous and uncaring about your feelings.







> But she choose to totally ignore my feelings one day and just start doing it. I think she was hiding it from me. She started to do it in front of me even though she knew I would reject her, up until the point I saw her using, everything was great, but she knew it would change things and did not care.



Or she just cared about the drugs more.







> Like I said before, if she was just doing it in private, ect, I would not have called police, but doing it while driving is endagering people, thats why.



But you won't say either of the following things: (a) she is actually over the legal limit in alcohol consumption, (b) you have ever seen her endanger anyone. Nor will you tell us that you ever warned her that you would go to the police if she didn't stop doing this.

What you have told us is that she really hurt you: she was dishonest to you and chose getting stoned and drinking in her car over you. That sucks ass. She is guilty of lying. She is guilty of breaking your heart. She is guilty of doing something that she knew, in advance, would be upsetting. But those aren't justifiable reasons for exploiting your knowledge of her illegal activities to try and send her to jail or get her car seized. Don't hide behind the fact that what she is doing is illegal.


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## Turjan (Apr 18, 2005)

Okay, I think a bit differentiation is in order here .

I'm aware of the fact that THC is vastly exaggerated in its effects. Nicotin is much more addictive, and alcohol is the much more dangerous drug. The differences in how they are dealt with are more politically motivated than anyting else.

This said, the use of THC or alcohol during driving should not be tolerated. Both drugs change perceptions and reaction times. They don't have any place in traffic.

Ending the relationship was the right thing to do. Someone who does not respect that his/her partner is subject to random drug tests clearly doesn't care for the partner. That's no valid basis for a relationship.

On the other hand, the move to call all police stations in the area sounds more like personally motivated than true care for the community. It reeks like some petty revenge out of bitterness to me, sorry. I'd suggest to look into the true motivation again.


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## KenM (Apr 18, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> So, we've agreed that public safety is not your motive here.




  We don't agree, her actions, in my eyes, endangered me and is a public safety risk, thats why I asked her to stop.  She did this a number of times. 
  So, if toinght, while driving drunk, she kills someone you care about, its all cool because I did not warn people about her? That makes it all better, right?


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## Torm (Apr 18, 2005)

Just to clarify the position I stated earlier, when I said that Ken's logic may have been problematical, I meant that, ideally, he should have informed the authorities _even while_ he was going out with her, but we are usually (and sometimes illogically) reluctant to subject people we are involved with to that. I did NOT mean that he shouldn't have after they broke up.

Not arguing with anyone in particular, just clarifying.


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## diaglo (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Did I do the right thing?





you did and you didn't.

you should've been more upfront with her.

you should've told her. you ain't riding with her. and you are calling the cops if you see her do it.

if that wasn't enough to tip the balance. you shoulda dumped her sooner.

after waiting and watching her do it for "a number of times" you become an accessory to her activities.

sure you are doing the right thing now. but in truth it sounds more like sour grapes.


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## KenM (Apr 18, 2005)

Another thing I need to mention, i'm 37, she is 43.


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 18, 2005)

When it comes to love, age doesn't mean anything.


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## KenM (Apr 18, 2005)

I was not talking about love, IMO 43 is a little old to be drinking and drugging while driving, IMO.


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## Turjan (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I was not talking about love, IMO 43 is a little old to be drinking and drugging while driving, IMO.



Welcome to the real world . With 43 it's usually not so obvious like with 17, because habitual drug users have found methods that nobody immediately notices. I know someobody who had usually drunk one or two bottles of wine on his own when he drove. You wouldn't have guessed.


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## loki44 (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Another thing I need to mention, i'm 37, she is 43.





So what is the cutoff age for ir to still be "OK"?


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## Tewligan (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Also, how come the only people that say "pot is harmless, it does not make you do anything bad." Are the people that use it?



FWIW, I don't use it, and I'm of the opinion that it's pretty harmless.


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## Warrior Poet (Apr 18, 2005)

I've got a contact high just reading this thread.

Anyway . . . 



			
				Bryan898 said:
			
		

> There's a Huge difference between legally drunk and actually being drunk. That being said, I'm completely 100% against people driving while drunk, but think the legal limit is ridiculous.




Just curious, how would you measure it, define it, or regulate it, then, if there wasn't a legal limit in place?  Genuinely curious.

Warrior Poet


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## KenM (Apr 18, 2005)

Part of the problem with defining "legaly drunk" is that everyone has a different limit on how much they can drink before they are impaired. So the authorities have to have the limit set low. I'm not saying the law is right, that is just the way it is.


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## Wystan (Apr 18, 2005)

Having been in numerous accidents (as a passenger) where the people driving were under the legal drunk limit. I can tell you that the amount is actually a lot lower before it can start to impact and detract from manual skills such as driving. I personally do not drink, I have no qualms about others drinking, but even 1-2 beers is too much if you plan on driving in the next 20-30 minutes. 

When I did drink a little (about 7 years ago) I would always make sure that I had no more than 1 drink an hour and at least 1/2 hour with just soda or water before I drove. I have also seen Marijuana and Mushrooms used while driving, and I can tell you they mess you up even faster. 

Most of the accidents were as a child with my mother being the impaired one...She owns a Hell of a lot of telephone poles.


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## Mallus (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I was not talking about love, IMO 43 is a little old to be drinking and drugging while driving, IMO.



Agreed. And 37 is too old to be riding shotgun while said drinking and drugging is going on. So where does that leave us?

I'm having trouble reconciling the fact you 1) consider this woman enough of a public safety threat as to alert the police and 2) but drove with her while dangerously impaired enough times to develop that 'profile' of her.

In short, breaking up: good idea. Ratting her out: really looks like an act of vindictiveness masquerading as a act of publicly-minded altruism (but then again, I only know what you've written).


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## Torm (Apr 18, 2005)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> FWIW, I don't use it, and I'm of the opinion that it's pretty harmless.



And I tend to agree, except that it is like any other impairing substance. If you're having a cookout or small party with a bunch of friends, and you know who is driving so they can lay off, and you want to have a few beers or even :gasp: a little pot, fine, whatever. Heck, even heroin, I don't care - I wouldn't mess with ANY of it, myself, including the beer, but I sincerely believe adults should be treated as adults, even if they are stupid adults.

But if you're one of those drivers, you should certainly know yourself WELL before touching _any_ of it. And if you're drunk or drugged daily, when friends, family, and work are counting on you for day-to-day life type stuff, you are a problem. Certainly I would think someone who would imbibe WHILE driving falls into this category. :\


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## fusangite (Apr 18, 2005)

Warrior Poet said:
			
		

> Just curious, how would you measure it, define it, or regulate it, then, if there wasn't a legal limit in place?  Genuinely curious.



In the mid 1990s, researchers at the University of Calgary came up with quite an interesting plan. They ran a series of tests on people with different blood-alcohol levels with very realistic driving simulations (halfway between an videogame and VR with the person sitting in a complete driver's seat replica) and they found that some people could learn to drive drunk, basically compensating for changes in reaction time, etc. to the point where they could drive drunk better than the average person could drive sober. Of course they didn't find this was the case with all alcoholics or even all regular drinkers. Basically, they found that some people can be trained to drive with quite a bit of alcohol in their system whereas others are harder to train or untrainable up to the above average level of reaction time and precision their study was looking for.

Surprisingly, they found that it didn't take that many sessions to train certain people to drive drunk. And we see this in reality with alcoholics; some who have been drinking for years are a menace on the road as soon as they pass the legal limit whereas others have trained themselves quite effectively. 

The researchers recommended a policy change whereby our default should go from the current two-drink limit to zero tolerance so that a person with a standard license could be charged with any level of alcohol in their system. A person who wanted to drive drunk would have to pay extra to get a special license (because a bunch of extra testing would be involved) that permitted them to drive with whatever level of alcohol in their system they could demonstrate to the people running the tests that they could handle.

Anyway, you asked for an option. That's one example. There are probably others but that's the only version I've heard a radio documentary about. Of course, there technically would still be a legal limit: for a regular license it would be zero but for a special license it would be variable and printed on the license and entered into a database. Of course, dangerous driving would still be illegal, regardless of a person's blood alcohol level.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 18, 2005)

reanjr said:
			
		

> I'd put money that, in Michigan (where I live), it will be decriminalized within a generation.  Canada (Ontario) already did so and I think our proximity to several major metropolitan areas up there will slowly influence public opinion.



Well, it looks like you're smoking something too, because nowhere in Canada is pot decriminalized (and the debate about doing such a thing anywhere in Canada is _extremely_ heated).


			
				fusangite said:
			
		

> Have you seen studies on marijuana use and driving? It is generally considered that THC does very little to impair driving. And, in some cases, appears to enhance certain positive behaviours in motorists.



Sounds like selective reading to me. Every study I've seen quoted in the local paper says the _exact opposite_. Looks like there's nothing conclusive to even bother mentioning, here.


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## Warrior Poet (Apr 18, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> In the mid 1990s, researchers at the University of Calgary came up with quite an interesting plan . . . Of course, dangerous driving would still be illegal, regardless of a person's blood alcohol level.




That's fascinating.  Thanks for the information.  That's the kind of thing I was wondering about, whether mutable conditions could be implemented to accommodate a highly variable system.

I still think the logistics of it would be difficult to manage, much less enforce, but it is an interesting idea.

One of the things I noted about myself reading this thread was my perception of the problem (hazardous driving conditions, he said euphamistically) and the desire for a solution, when the conditions of the situation are such that a solution seems to be an all-or-nothing kind of thing.  What's the only true way to prevent automobile danger?  Get rid of automobiles!  Of course, then I can't drive either, and I like to think I'm a fairly competent driver! 

As much as I wish all drivers out there were hyper-conscious of their surroundings, speed, weather, automobile capabilities, and other drivers, it just isn't the case, even when everyone's stone sober.  Nonetheless, I find myself growing uncomfortable at the thought of even "managed" or "acceptable" controlled-substance levels in motor vehicle operation, which is funny because, that's already the case! (.08 here in this section of the Midwestern United States)

Anyway, thanks for the information.  I think one of the things it comes down to is, as a driver, I have to look out for myself, AND the other drivers, as best I can when I'm behind the wheel (for me and my tolerance level, that means no booze; I don't toke, but I tend to believe it's less harmful to corporeal health [near as I can tell {and anyway, how many different parentheticals can I work into this sentence?}] than tobacco, but I don't know about its motor-reflex effects), and hope that others are doing the same, and I have to drive under the assumption that they aren't.  In the meantime, I hope nobody's getting behind the wheel when they shouldn't be, whether after a party or after surgery.

Drive safe, everybody!

Warrior Poet


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## Mallus (Apr 18, 2005)

Warrior Poet said:
			
		

> In the meantime, I hope nobody's getting behind the wheel when they shouldn't be, whether after a party or after surgery.



Or without adequate sleep. Or in an agitated emotional state (no driving after a breakup, row with the spouse, confrontation with the boss,etc.).  No mentally adjusting an NPC stat's or rethinking a plot hook on the way to the game. And certainly no fiddling with the radio dial or rumaging around for a power bar. And don't get me started on non-handsfree cell phones (whose use is already illegal in a number of places)...

How many drivers are completely free of some form of impairment? For those of you advocating essentially 'no legal amount' of alcohol for drivers, are you also in favor of criminalizing other equally-impairing behaviors/states? Perhaps cops need 'upsetalyzers' which measure your objective level of tranquality?


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## The_Universe (Apr 18, 2005)

I'm with KenM on this one. 

I find the number of people so vehemently defending his former girlfriend's behavior more than a little disturbing, as well.


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## KenM (Apr 18, 2005)

See, The Universe agrees with me.


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## The_Universe (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> See, The Universe agrees with me.



 Sometimes I forget that my screen name can create a cosmic double entendre - even though that's precisely why I picked it. Heh.


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## Turjan (Apr 18, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I'm with KenM on this one.
> 
> I find the number of people so vehemently defending his former girlfriend's behavior more than a little disturbing, as well.



I think you are misinterpreting the answers. Nobody is defending the former girlfriend's behavior. The lack of respect for her partner has been stressed often enough.

This does not mean that you have to agree with Ken's reaction. Dumping her is fine. But this does not help with the impression that he tried to avoid to cope with the situation himself. Such a behavior like the one by his girlfriend would have caused a big argument in my long going relationship with my last SO. We would have got loud. We most probably would have insulted each other at some point. But in the end, we would have got some kind of result for our relationship, either a compromise, or one would have been convinced of the point of the other, or one would have been content to tolerate the other's position, depending on the situation. This always worked, in all those thirteen years. Of course, this needs both parties being ready to talk, and because usually only one is not content with the situation, this sometimes needs some demonstration of the urgency of the situation. Whether you get loud during this exchange is a matter of personal style .

What I see here is some kind of substitute act. Instead of dealing with the situation himself, the solution is pushed off to some anonymous organization. This might serve some kind of revenge, but I suppose the effect will feel somewhat shallow. I guess it will leave him with the feeling that he has not really tried enough to save the relationship. And from what I can see, as little as it is, this might be true.


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## The_Universe (Apr 18, 2005)

Just so we're clear - 

I totally agree with Ken, and would have done the same thing, were I in his situation. INCLUDING reporting her to the police as a potential danger. 

He doesn't seem particularly vengeful here to me, gents. There was a problem. He tried to deal with it himself. He couldn't. He escalated it to the only people that can and will potentially deal with that problem, and seperated himself from it. 

I think the group here is so incredulous that drug and alcohol use and abuse can be a big deal that any attempt to treat it as a *problem* and not just *the man trying to keep us down* that any attempt of Ken's to involve authority is interpreted as a betrayal of well - everything. 

I think Ken acted reasonably. As with all things, YMMV.

Of course, not all the posters are defending the woman in question. But a lot of them are. Note the number of posts strenuously insisting that THC/alcohol aren't _*really*_ problem causing intoxicants.


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## fusangite (Apr 18, 2005)

For me, a lot of this is hinging on the fact that Ken does not appear to have warned his ex that he was going to report her to the police. He said: stop or I'll break up with you. But he never said: stop or I'll report you to the police. Now maybe he thinks that losing his lovin' is worse than going to jail but I think this one of the clearest markers that this is a revenge thing.


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## Turjan (Apr 18, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> Just so we're clear -
> 
> I totally agree with Ken, and would have done the same thing, were I in his situation. INCLUDING reporting her to the police as a potential danger.



Okay, then our opinion about what a relationship involves obviously differ . 



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think the group here is so incredulous that drug and alcohol use and abuse can be a big deal that any attempt to treat it as a *problem* and not just *the man trying to keep us down* that any attempt of Ken's to involve authority is interpreted as a betrayal of well - everything.



Well, my point was that the first authority I'd try to involve would be my own. I don't think that my SO could have succeeded with avoiding my attempts to talk with her. And the other way round. Yes, it takes effort.



			
				The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think Ken acted reasonably. As with all things, YMMV.



It obviously does . You should keep in mind, though, that I'm not defending his girlfriend, but try to give my opinion about what I see as the best for *himself*. He has to look into his self and answer his own probing questions.


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## Mallus (Apr 18, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> I think the group here is so incredulous that drug and alcohol use and abuse can be a big deal that any attempt to treat it as a *problem* and not just *the man trying to keep us down* that any attempt of Ken's to involve authority is interpreted as a betrayal of well - everything.



See, from Ken's own words, this comes off like a control issue. In his posts he makes it explicitly clear that, in his opinion, she wasn't seriously impaired when driving. We know that he drove with her on multiple occassions while she engaged in these activites. Was KenM perhaps suicidal? He defends his position by stating her age, and pointing out that open containers of alcohol are _technically_ illegal in Mass, neither of which have anything to do with public safety.  I don't get the sense that he honestly felt she was a danger.

Which makes what he did an act of revenge.

It doesn't make the womans choice to comsume intoxicants any smarter, either. I just think Ken should to come clean about his motivation, and not hide behind a scrim of 'concerned citizenship'.

(Hypothetically, would you advocate involving the police if the woman was say, a habitual speeder, who frequently drove 20+ MPH above the posted speed limit? Thats dangerous behavior as well. What if the woman was myopic and chose to drive without corrective lenses? Is it off to the cop shop then?)


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 18, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I cannot honestly believe there are people defending driving while imbibing impairing substances on this thread!
> 
> _...attempts to disbelieve, rolls a 19, adds 53 from Will Save bonus, succeeds..._
> 
> So, what were we _actually_ talking about?




I can't believe it either.... that they're actually defending an illegal activity! That's just sooo wrong, IMO!   I wonder if these same people would feel the same way if this girl hurt or killed a family member of their's.....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 18, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Ok, while not endagering anyone per se, When she lit up the joint or opened the bottle while driving with me in the car, I asked her to wait until we got to the place we were going. She said she could not wait, every time, even though she knew i was uncomfortable with her doing it while driving with me there.
> Also when we first met, I told her about my past and how I have a bad view of drug users and if she did drugs, it would not work. But she choose to totally ignore my feelings one day and just start doing it. I think she was hiding it from me. She started to do it in front of me even though she knew I would reject her, up until the point I saw her using, everything was great, but she knew it would change things and did not care. Like I said before, if she was just doing it in private, ect, I would not have called police, but doing it while driving is endagering people, thats why.
> Also, how come the only people that say "pot is harmless, it does not make you do anything bad." Are the people that use it?





Which goes to show she doesn't give a rat's ass about you or your feelings on either her or drug use. And I agree that it would endanger not only you but innocent people, just like if she'd downed a whole bottle of Captain Morgan's and then drove. Not to mention that if she got pulled over, you'd be in about as much deep poodoo as she would be. I'd say it's time for her to leave and don't let the door hit her in the ass on the way out. She doesn't care what you think, just about her next "hit".


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## Turjan (Apr 19, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I can't believe it either.... that they're actually defending an illegal activity! That's just sooo wrong, IMO!   I wonder if these same people would feel the same way if this girl hurt or killed a family member of their's.....



Well, even these things are relative. In my hometown, it's not illegal to drive with an open can of beer. If you're below 0.8 ‰, you're fine. I suppose it's time to come down from that moral high horse . And I don't think that the can of beer or the joint are the central question here. It's more about how to deal with problems in a relationship.

You can ask those parents in the town where I live now, how they feel nowadays about their decision to call the police when they had some trouble with their 16 years old son. The police shot him. Now they try to sue the police. I don't want to be in their situation.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 19, 2005)

Turjan said:
			
		

> Well, even these things are relative. In my hometown, it's not illegal to drive with an open can of beer. If you're below 0.8 ‰, you're fine. I suppose it's time to come down from that moral high horse . And I don't think that the can of beer or the joint are the central question here. It's more about how to deal with problems in a relationship.





Seems like SOMEONE needs to have a "moral high horse" as opposed to approving illegal activities.  And alot of places will get you for an open container of alcohol. And it's the drugs/alcohol problems that are the CENTER POINT to this argument and why Ken had to do what he did. I can understand the breaking up part, but I wouldn't go to the extreme of calling the cops on her.... that's just a bit far. And seemingly a bent upon revenge sorta thing.


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## KenM (Apr 19, 2005)

She did it with me 3 times. The first time I was surpised, then she said she "had to have it", the next two times I said we need to talk about it later, but she kept blowing me off about it. So I knew she had a problem, I was willing to let a couple of times go, but she told me she does it all the time. So I am guilty of not acting sooner. Should I have warned her that I called the police? Does a impared driver warn the police before they get behind the wheel? 
My mom is a recoving crack addict, she used to shake me down for money for her hits, that is why i have such a negitive view of drug users, please no one say "pot is not the same as crack." in my eyes, it is, and thats what matters here. Heidi was the first close friend I had that did drugs, so I had a strong reaction. She also said she used to smoke pot, but never wanted to anymore. Now thinking back on it, she decevied me thinking she did not want to do that anymore. Buy like I said before, if she was just doing it in private and not driving, I would not have called the police, but when you are driving like that, you are a danger, IMO.


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## Turjan (Apr 19, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Seems like SOMEONE needs to have a "moral high horse" as opposed to approving illegal activities.  And alot of places will get you for an open container of alcohol. And it's the drugs/alcohol problems that are the CENTER POINT to this argument and why Ken had to do what he did. I can understand the breaking up part, but I wouldn't go to the extreme of calling the cops on her.... that's just a bit far. And seemingly a bent upon revenge sorta thing.



Well, as I said, even laws are relative. They differ from place to place. And I don't think the drugs/alcohol problems are the center point, but the question, how to deal with them in a relationship. I'm not up for easy answers here.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 19, 2005)

You're just like another poster on this board who had a drug addict parent. I didn't have a parent who did drugs but mom used to smoke and I had a negative view on smoking as a result of that. It's not a bad thing to have, that negative attitude. It'll keep ya from being even tempted in the future. And hearing all along that "drugs are bad" (that teacher dude from South Park) makes it even moreso that I don't want to get involved.

The girl needs help from somewhere. Maybe, since you dumped her, she might get help.... who knows.... ::shrug:: But she sure needs it before she does something that she'll *really* regret later on.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 19, 2005)

Turjan said:
			
		

> Well, as I said, even laws are relative. They differ from place to place. And I don't think the drugs/alcohol problems are the center point, but the question, how to deal with them in a relationship. I'm not up for easy answers here.




Considering that there's NOT an easy solution to this quagmire of events... There usually isn't when it comes to people interacting with other people and throwing in lots of variables that would blow a math major's brain...  :\


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## Turjan (Apr 19, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She did it with me 3 times. The first time I was surpised, then she said she "had to have it", the next two times I said we need to talk about it later, but she kept blowing me off about it. So I knew she had a problem, I was willing to let a couple of times go, but she told me she does it all the time. So I am guilty of not acting sooner. Should I have warned her that I called the police? Does a impared driver warn the police before they get behind the wheel?



The question I pose myself is what kind of relationship you had. I know that it's not a good thing to be too lenient with drug users. You have to be firm in your actions. But it's pretty clear that calling the police closes the door once and for all. This is the point that makes me question the relationship: was it really that serious? Is there any deeper interest for the other person that goes further than the damaged ego?


			
				KenM said:
			
		

> Heidi was the first close friend I had that did drugs, so I had a strong reaction. She also said she used to smoke pot, but never wanted to anymore. Now thinking back on it, she decevied me thinking she did not want to do that anymore. Buy like I siad before, if she was just doing it in private and not driving, I would not have called the police, but when you are driving like that, you are a danger, IMO.



Well, you probably are. Anyway, the story still makes me think that she was just a loose acquaintance and nothing else.


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## KenM (Apr 19, 2005)

Turjan said:
			
		

> Well, you probably are. Anyway, the story still makes me think that she was just a loose acquaintance and nothing else.





 We were very close. Thats all you need to know.


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## Turjan (Apr 19, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> We were very close. Thats all you need to know.



Well, then I stand by what I said before.

I'm not sure how having a parent with drug problems would change my view. Maybe, the place I had been living at for a decade made me somewhat used to that situation. I did not like those flocks of junkies begging for money. I did not like those used syringes on the stairs in the morning. I hated when the dealers hid their stuff in the bushes on the children's playground. I didn't feel well between those dealer gangs selling their stuff in the hallways of the underground. But somehow, this was part of everyday life. With this in mind, those people smoking pot in the street at the canal on a sunny Sunday afternoon didn't bother me in the slightest .


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## Ampolitor (Apr 19, 2005)

I must say im pretty ticked about some of the comments going on pro marijuana and driving? are you nuts. Those who know me know Ive been a cop for a long time. Marijuana IMPAIRS you worse than alcohol when you drive. Ive taken many people to the hospital and to the morgue because of morons who drink or smoke behind the wheel. I had a girl last week who was caught driving smoking, and two years ago she did the same thing and she crashed and killed her little sister.
If your having heart surgery would you want your surgeon taking a "smoke: break? of course not so why should you have the right to drive a 4,000 lb vehicle down a roadway? Im on DWI 15 so far and I will continue to nail drinkers and smokers as much as I can, because my wife and kids drive on the same roadway. You did the right thing by dumping her, BESIDES the fact that if shes in your car and if you get pulled over all she would have to do is drop it anywhere in your car, and guess who goes to jail, its the law, the driver takes possession or both of you go. Its not worth it and yes it would happen Ive seen brother roll on each other.
Fpr those who wouldnt call the cops on her, how bad would you feel if she hit and killed your best frined, your mom, and you knew what she did, Im sure you would call if someoen was walking down the street with a gun.
For the poster who said doctors prescribe drugs that are worse, well yes they do BUT it is illegal to operate a motor when you take them and you will get arrested for DWI also. PEople need to learn their facts before they make statements, it is ILLEGAL to take ANYTHING that impairs your senses while driving and YES you can be arrested for it, paint, whip its, marijuana, crack, etc,, and prescription drugs, and yes even Nyquil, if your involved in a accident.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 19, 2005)

Ampoliter: I'm with you on this one! As my previous statements have proved. I also found it wrong that people are so supportive of drinking and smoking pot.... that's just wrong. Both morally and legally. I don't know about this girl, but I sure wouldn't want to have on my conscience that I'd killed someone because I had been so 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 stupid!


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## KenM (Apr 19, 2005)

Ampoliter, when she did it with me, it was always in her car, never mine. If she did it in my car, I would have thrown her out fast. Question, what could have happened to me as a passanger and she got pulled over with it?


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## Ampolitor (Apr 19, 2005)

*Imo*

well in NC and NY if she dropped it she could of made the argument that it was yours and 1) the cop could still charge her since its her car, 2) BOTH of you could be charge for poss, or 3) he could charge you, it would all depend on what she said and how believable, but most of the time in my experience both are charged unless she admits that it is hers.


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## Mallus (Apr 19, 2005)

Ampolitor said:
			
		

> PEople need to learn their facts before they make statements, it is ILLEGAL to take ANYTHING that impairs your senses while driving



So there's no legal limit for blood alcohol level where you're an officer? Any measurable amount is illegal?

Look, I personally think the woman was a fool. And all I know about her level of impairment is what the original posted described, which can be summed up as "not enough for me to get out of the car, but enough for me to go to police after I broke up with her". 

I get the feeling that if the woman as a habitual speeder, people would be reacting quite differently to Ken's involving the authorities. Let me ask you as an officer, isn't speeding (say at 20 MPH+ the posted limit) a major contributing factor in auto accidents?


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## Mallus (Apr 19, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I also found it wrong that people are so supportive of drinking and smoking pot.... that's just wrong. Both morally and legally.



1) Drinking isn't illegal. Operating a motor vehicle with a blood alcohol level in excess of the legal limit is.

2) You're free to feel that drinking is morally wrong. Many people feel otherwise. 

3) For the record, I don't believe the womans actions were right. I do, however, believe that KenM's actions were low and cowardly. Both can be true. And I suspect he believes that too (or else why start this thread? He could just as easily posted a thread called "I had to do a very difficult thing").


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## fusangite (Apr 19, 2005)

I too would like to object to the insinuation on the part of other posters that I somehow favour impaired driving or feel this woman conducted herself well. It is actually possible for both parties to be in the wrong here.


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## Torm (Apr 19, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> I too would like to object to the insinuation on the part of other posters that I somehow favour impaired driving or feel this woman conducted herself well. It is actually possible for both parties to be in the wrong here.



Well, that's certainly true enough, although without any actual personal knowledge of the situation, I choose to give KenM the benefit of the doubt. Whereas I don't know the woman in question even so well as to have a name for her or share a messageboard with her, so I can feel free to assume that Ken is correct about her.  

While you were one of the earlier posters on that side of the fence, so to speak, I really think the posters that K'Trava, The Universe, Ampolitor, myself and others are surprised at are the later ones who ARE defending her behavior and/or driving while imbibing.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 19, 2005)

Mallus said:
			
		

> 1) Drinking isn't illegal. Operating a motor vehicle with a blood alcohol level in excess of the legal limit is.
> 
> 2) You're free to feel that drinking is morally wrong. Many people feel otherwise.
> 
> 3) For the record, I don't believe the womans actions were right. I do, however, believe that KenM's actions were low and cowardly. Both can be true. And I suspect he believes that too (or else why start this thread? He could just as easily posted a thread called "I had to do a very difficult thing").





There's nothing wrong with a little drinking. As long as one is RESPONSIBLE with it!! She's not responsible with it. Not at all. For me, social drinking is one thing. Alcoholism is another beast entirely. I think this goes more along alcoholism than social, IMO. And doing illegal drugs is just that: ILLEGAL. No matter who does it.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 19, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Well, that's certainly true enough, although without any actual personal knowledge of the situation, I choose to give KenM the benefit of the doubt. Whereas I don't know to woman in question even so well as to have a name for her or share a messageboard with her, so I can feel free to assume that Ken is correct about her.
> 
> While you were one of the earlier posters on that side of the fence, so to speak, I really think the posters that K'Trava, The Universe, Ampolitor, myself and others are surprised at are the later ones who ARE defending her behavior and/or driving while imbibing.




True. We're only getting one side of the story here. 

I'd have kicked her in the ass/to the curb by now for such behavior. I don't need anyone who has such disregard for how I feel on such a matter.


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## Krieg (Apr 20, 2005)

Ampolitor said:
			
		

> PEople need to learn their facts before they make statements, it is ILLEGAL to take ANYTHING that impairs your senses while driving




Doctor heal thyself.


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## Torm (Apr 20, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> True. We're only getting one side of the story here.



See, this is my point - Ken is one of us. We don't know this woman at all. So let's back _our guy_ against imaginary (to us) people.


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## The_Universe (Apr 20, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> See, this is my point - Ken is one of us. We don't know this woman at all. So let's back _our guy_ against imaginary (to us) people.



 I can get behind that! (and by extension, KenM)


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## Turjan (Apr 20, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> See, this is my point - Ken is one of us. We don't know this woman at all. So let's back _our guy_ against imaginary (to us) people.



Funny statement. Who is working against anyone here? The question we are talking about was "Did I do the right thing?". Our answers serve no other purpose than giving Ken guidelines to think the whole situation over once again. No more and no less. It's his life, it was his decision to talk about it, and it's his own decision what he wants to draw from this discussion. As simple as that .


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## loki44 (Apr 20, 2005)

What a bunch of opinionated pomposity on both sides of the argument.  KenM, if you feel you did the right thing, then you did.  Our opinions don't matter really.  IMO the question was never a legal or moral one, it was simply a question of, "did KenM do the right thing".  Only he can decide that.  The best we can do is to make him think.  Nothing more, nothing less.


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## loki44 (Apr 20, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> See, this is my point - Ken is one of us. We don't know this woman at all. So let's back _our guy_ against imaginary (to us) people.




Do you play a lot of Paranoia?


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 20, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> Do you play a lot of Paranoia?




I think he's the GOD of paranoia....


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## Torm (Apr 20, 2005)

Turjan said:
			
		

> Funny statement. Who is working against anyone here? The question we are talking about was "Did I do the right thing?". Our answers serve no other purpose than giving Ken guidelines to think the whole situation over once again. No more and no less. It's his life, it was his decision to talk about it, and it's his own decision what he wants to draw from this discussion. As simple as that .



That's true, and would be satisfactory if more of the discussion on the critical side had taken more of a constructive criticism to a friend tack, and less of a "I'm a pothead and you're a jerk for calling 5-0 on a fellow pothead" tack.


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## Torm (Apr 20, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> Do you play a lot of Paranoia?



I am only barely aware that that is some sort of RPG. So, in other words, no.


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## loki44 (Apr 20, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I am only barely aware that that is some sort of RPG. So, in other words, no.





So we're in the same boat then...


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 20, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> So we're in the same boat then...





Scary that that is the case.....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 20, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> That's true, and would be satisfactory if more of the discussion on the critical side had taken more of a constructive criticism to a friend tack, and less of a "I'm a pothead and you're a jerk for calling 5-0 on a fellow pothead" tack.





Especially when it comes down to all of us espousing our own points of view on the whole matter, especially the drugs/drinking side of things....


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## frankthedm (Apr 20, 2005)

Getting rid of a crazy girlfriend. Good

Squealling? Can get your tounge cut out.

Flush your system with a lot of cranberry juice if your worried about the drug tests.


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## Mystery Man (Apr 20, 2005)

At the age of 43 the likelyhood of her quitting is pretty slim.


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## ph34r (Apr 20, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I don't know what DWI classifies as.... if it's actually a felony but I know drug possession is one.




DWI is a misdemeanor. Ref: GS 20-138.1


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## loki44 (Apr 20, 2005)

ph34r said:
			
		

> DWI is a misdemeanor. Ref: GS 20-138.1





Not taking sides here since for the most part I'm in the "KenM done wrong" camp despite some of the inane arguments supporting this same side, but DWI/DUI can also be considered to be a "crime of moral turpitude" in the eyes of the Department of Homeland Security's branch known as the Citizenship and Immigration Service (CIS), formerly known as the Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS).  As a "crime of moral turpitude" it is a deportable offense even for individuals who are Lawful Permanent Residents.

Yes, this is real.  No, I don't know a thing about Paranoia.


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## ph34r (Apr 20, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> As a "crime of moral turpitude" it is a deportable offense even for individuals who are Lawful Permanent Residents.




And deport them to where? Penal Colony 14?


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## Krieg (Apr 20, 2005)

ph34r said:
			
		

> And deport them to where? Penal Colony 14?




Their country of origin presumably.


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## tarchon (Apr 21, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> Their country of origin presumably.



Or planet. That almost happened to Mork once.


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## KenM (Apr 21, 2005)

I am a little mad that the whore mislead me from day one and said she did not want to do drugs anymore. The decetful peace of crap did not care about my feelings, just what she would get out of it. I would really like to tell you what i want to do to her, but it would get me banned, or worse. So maybe I did have a little revenge in mind, but it was still the right thing to do, if I get a little satifaction out of it, so much the better.


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## Krieg (Apr 21, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> _So maybe I did have a little revenge in mind,_




Umm ya think?



> _but it was still the right thing to do,_




Any action motivated by anger or vengeance is never the right thing to do.



> _if I get a little satifaction out of it, so much the better._




See above.

It was petty and small and in the end won't really make you feel better about the whole sad situation.

Hopefully your next relationship will be with someone more stable and trustworthy than your last one.

Unfortunately all you can do is let go and move ahead.


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## Torm (Apr 21, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I am a little mad that the whore mislead me from day one and said she did not want to do drugs anymore. The decetful peace of crap did not care about my feelings, just what she would get out of it. I would really like to tell you what i want to do to her, but it would get me banned, or worse. So maybe I did have a little revenge in mind, but it was still the right thing to do, if I get a little satifaction out of it, so much the better.



Well! You certainly proved _me_ wrong. Congrats.  

I'd be amazed that the above was written by a 37 (thirty-seven?!) year old, if it wasn't for examples already set in my family.

Those of you who thought this was an act of vengence from the start simply _have_ to let me in on the secrets of your psychic powers.


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## loki44 (Apr 21, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I am a little mad that the whore mislead me from day one and said she did not want to do drugs anymore. The decetful peace of crap did not care about my feelings, just what she would get out of it. I would really like to tell you what i want to do to her, but it would get me banned, or worse. So maybe I did have a little revenge in mind, but it was still the right thing to do, if I get a little satifaction out of it, so much the better.





Aha.....so the real KenM emerges.  Vindictive, spiteful and a bit misogynistic it appears.  You didn't mention before that you were hanging out with a prostitute and perhaps she really did not WANT to do drugs anymore but just couldn't kick the habit.  Why not go ahead and cross that line?  I'd say you already came pretty close.


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## KenM (Apr 21, 2005)

You took the word whore literally, it was an insult directed at her. The fourm sensor would not let me post the real insult I wanted to use. So I'm petty and small for doing this? I'm just making her feel the way she made me feel when I knew what was going on. I got a person that constenly drives while imparied off the street, I did the right thing.  Do not judge me until you walk a mile in my shoes. She told me she never wanted to stop, its who she was. When I found out she was using again, she told me: "I can't be fake with you" To me this means she was hiding it all along, she presented herself as a totally different person at first. She knew drugs are an issue for me, but she did not care. If I knew who she really was, i never would have spend that much time with her.


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## Torm (Apr 21, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> So I'm petty and small for doing this? I'm just making her feel the way she made me feel when I knew what was going on. I got a person that constenly drives while imparied off the street, I did the right thing.  Do not judge me until you walk a mile in my shoes.



_If you are angry with a man, try walking a mile in his shoes. Then, you're a mile away, and you have his shoes._ 

Petty and small is having so little respect for your fellows on ENWorld as to spout the hatefulness that you've posted in these last two posts. It is also asking other people's opinions on your actions - which says that you KNOW there might be something wrong with them - and then getting angry when they don't back your actions. It is ALSO leaving her and calling the authorities for the reasons you have now stated. Before I was giving you the benefit of the doubt and assuming that you had left her because you couldn't take on responsibility for her with other responsibilities you have that it would interfere with - an unfortunate, but understandable reason. And I assumed you called the police out of legitimate concern for her and people she might endanger. But it turns out that instead of honorable reasons, you did these things out of a desire to push yourself back up from feeling rejected in favor of the drugs (which, apparently, you don't understand the meaning of ADDICTION - it isn't about _you_ at all) by pushing her _down_. Equal and opposite reaction may work in physics, but can you honestly tell me you feel better? I doubt it.

Addiction: She can't quit, not for long, on her own. She thinks she NEEDS the drugs - either because there are things in her life around her she can't face, or she doesn't like herself but can hide that in the drug's effects. People in this situation need someone to stand with them - to tell them that they will help them overcome those things around them, or to build them up until they believe they have worth again without the drugs. And I'm not about to pretend that there aren't people so broken as to be beyond redemption even for the most heroic efforts - but that isn't even close to what I'm hearing from you.

Believe it or not (probably not, since people tend to take truth they don't want as an attack), I still wish you well in your future relationships. But I want you to realize that as long as your relationships are, for you, about YOU and not about her, they will either fail or be bad for whomever she is. Is that what you want?

You should call her, Ken - fix this. Did you even tell her that it HURT you for her to choose the drugs over you? Did you tell her that you loved her _without_ the drugs? Or did you *tear her down* for doing them, instead?

_I've been tryin' to get down to the Heart of the Matter
Because the flesh will get weak
And the ashes will scatter
So I'm thinkin' about forgiveness
Forgiveness
Even if, even if you don't love me anymore_
 - Don Henley

The burden of truth looks SO much heavier, but is really much lighter than the burden of guilt.

I know you're probably instinctively wanting to lash back out at me for saying all this: I want you to fight that, for just a moment, and consider that for the first part of this thread I was firmly on you side. Now realize - *I still am*. So why am I saying these things? Think about it.

One last thing - don't ask people whether you did right or not, and then say, "don't judge me." What did you ASK for, if not judgment?


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## Ampolitor (Apr 23, 2005)

*Hmm*

to the statment of asking about the bac, well its .08 for face value evidence but as I said ANYTHING that impairs your physical or mental faculties can get you nailed for DwI, which included marijuana. DWI is a misdemeanor depending on the factors, if an accident is involved, if a drug is involved (possession comes into play yada, yada, yada) how many priors etc... As to the guys who say its not bad, well I had a guy blow a .32,  he was already pending a dwi trial, so after the superbowl he ran a stop sign and smashed into a 25 year old mother on her way to work killing her. could of been someone you knew.
On the other hand he killed the wrong woman, he was found with two rounds in his back last week face down on a street.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 23, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> Aha.....so the real KenM emerges.  Vindictive, spiteful and a bit misogynistic it appears.  You didn't mention before that you were hanging out with a prostitute and perhaps she really did not WANT to do drugs anymore but just couldn't kick the habit.  Why not go ahead and cross that line?  I'd say you already came pretty close.




Have you ever gotten double-crossed by someone who you thought loved you?!?! You don't know how you'll react until it happens. Been there, done that. Still can be a bit vindictive, m'self. So, I can see where he comes from here.


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## Torm (Apr 23, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Have you ever gotten double-crossed by someone who you thought loved you?!?!



Um... a LOT.



			
				Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Still can be a bit vindictive, m'self. So, I can see where he comes from here.



Doesn't make you any happier in the long run, though, does it? :\


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## loki44 (Apr 23, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Have you ever gotten double-crossed by someone who you thought loved you?!?!





Well, maybe I've just been lucky, but no.  Everyone's different though.  Everybody's experiences are different.  My intention is not to judge anybody here.  I rarely see "good" or "bad" in a person or situation, just different.  But I do think it is fair to let people speak for themselves through their actions and/or words.  KenM started this thread by asking for advice (he asked whether or not he "did right").  Who am I to give advice to anyone?  The best I can hope for is a life challenged and well-questioned.

Having said that, why would anyone deign to be so presumptuous as to assume someone else loves them without knowing it?  He who feels it knows it.  If it ain't there, it just ain't.  I can't imagine being so unsure of my feelings, or those of someone close to me, that this could even be a possibility.  But that's just me.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 23, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Um... a LOT.




That was basically thrown out to anyone, not just you, Torm...   




> Doesn't make you any happier in the long run, though, does it? :\




Not really. Am trying to move on despite the fact I see him alot. And the fact that he was once a best friend and I USED to trust him. But no more. I'm surprised, and so is he, that we're still friends after that.... and then him blaming me for the "miscommunication"....


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## Torm (Apr 23, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> I can't imagine being so unsure of my feelings, or those of someone close to me, that this could even be a possibility.  But that's just me.



In general, you're probably right - but there are some TRULY TRULY screwed up people out there that can prove to be the exception. I hope you never meet any of them.


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## Torm (Apr 23, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I'm surprised, and so is he, that we're still friends after that.... and then him blaming me for the "miscommunication"....



Ever see the episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where she hooked up with a guy and had sex for the first time, and then he said he didn't want a relationship and he was sorry there was "miscommunication"? And then later, when she got all Cave Buffy and kicked his sorry tail? That was cool.  

"Beer foamy."


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 23, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Ever see the episodes of Buffy the Vampire Slayer where she hooked up with a guy and had sex for the first time, and then he said he didn't want a relationship and he was sorry there was "miscommunication"? And then later, when she got all Cave Buffy and kicked his sorry tail? That was cool.
> 
> "Beer foamy."





Never did watch that stuff.

He'd have gotten his ass kicked for sure if he pulled the same 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 with me.


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## KenM (Apr 23, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Have you ever gotten double-crossed by someone who you thought loved you?!?! You don't know how you'll react until it happens. Been there, done that. Still can be a bit vindictive, m'self. So, I can see where he comes from here.




  Thanks. I was venting a bit, i'm extremly heartbroken over this. Part of the reason I put up with it was I was unsure of my feelings. Also, when I felt it was a problem, I offered her help to stop. She told me she did not help to stop, that she was not going to stop and it was not a problem. I have dealt with addicts before, so i know the only was you can help them is if they want to stop. Not sure if I said this here yet, but when she started doing it with me there, she started to say " I can't be fake with you.". To me, this means she was doing it behind my back all along. Why she thought I would be OK with it, since she knew my history with addicts, I have no idea.


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## fusangite (Apr 23, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Thanks. I was venting a bit, i'm extremly heartbroken over this. Part of the reason I put up with it was I was unsure of my feelings. Also, when I felt it was a problem, I offered her help to stop. She told me she did not help to stop, that she was not going to stop and it was not a problem. I have dealt with addicts before, so i know the only was you can help them is if they want to stop. Not sure if I said this here yet, but



On the one hand, you claim to have experience with addiction and to know how it works. Then you say something like this:







> when she started doing it with me there, she started to say " I can't be fake with you.". To me, this means she was doing it behind my back all along. Why she thought I would be OK with it, since she knew my history with addicts, I have no idea.



This suggests that either you don't understand addiction or that you think you are so incredibly special that addicts will stop being addicts simply because they know that them being addicts will upset you. This isn't a very realistic view. This woman thought, mistakenly, that _despite_ the problems you have had with people with drug problems in the past, that you woul choose to continue being with her even after she told you what was really going on. Frankly, I think her expectation was a good deal more reasonable than yours.


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## Torm (Apr 23, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Thanks. I was venting a bit, i'm extremly heartbroken over this. Part of the reason I put up with it was I was unsure of my feelings. Also, when I felt it was a problem, I offered her help to stop.



See, and now you're sounding much more reasonable again - like the KenM I was defending toward the beginning of the thread. I gotta ask - were _you_ maybe a little drunky the other day when you posted that bit of nastiness?



			
				KenM said:
			
		

> I have dealt with addicts before, so i know the only was you can help them is if they want to stop.



If you were married or similarly committed, I personally wouldn't have seen anything wrong with locking her in a room until the chemical dependency went away enough to make her see reason, as long as she was treated very well otherwise. I've told my wife I'd do that if she ever got addicted to anything like that, and she'd do the same thing to me. Not that that is likely.

But we're weird.  And in a newer relationship (or even in some older ones), that could obviously cause you all sorts of legal problems. :\


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 23, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> See, and now you're sounding much more reasonable again - like the KenM I was defending toward the beginning of the thread. I gotta ask - were _you_ maybe a little drunky the other day when you posted that bit of nastiness?




Or had a bad day....




> If you were married or similarly committed, I personally wouldn't have seen anything wrong with locking her in a room until the chemical dependency went away enough to make her see reason, as long as she was treated very well otherwise. I've told my wife I'd do that if she ever got addicted to anything like that, and she'd do the same thing to me. Not that that is likely.
> 
> But we're weird.  And in a newer relationship (or even in some older ones), that could obviously cause you all sorts of legal problems. :\




I'd be surprised if you did.... but then children of addicts become one of two things: dependent like the parent or abhor the notion all-together. In my case, Mom used to smoke (she's since quit) but I can't stand smoking or the stench of it. However, my sister smokes and won't quit. So, either you're gonna follow in the footsteps or you're gonna go all out "I HATE IT!!" (like I did).


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## KenM (Apr 23, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> This woman thought, mistakenly, that _despite_ the problems you have had with people with drug problems in the past, that you woul choose to continue being with her even after she told you what was really going on. Frankly, I think her expectation was a good deal more reasonable than yours.





 When we first met and were getting to know each other, I told her flat out that I don't think I can have someone that does drugs in my life. She also told me flat out that she used to do alot of pot, but she was done with it. She said she did not like the blackouts, ect.. Thats why I fell so betrayed and let down, she flat out lied to me, IMO. So why she thought I would accept it, I don't know.


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## fusangite (Apr 24, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I told her flat out that I don't think I can have someone that does drugs in my life. She also told me flat out that she used to do alot of pot, but she was done with it. She said she did not like the blackouts, ect.. Thats why I fell so betrayed and let down, she flat out lied to me, IMO. So why she thought I would accept it, I don't know.



Wishful thinking. Part of the reason you're in so much pain too. Wishful thinking is part of falling in love -- choosing to believe someone will love you unconditionally no matter what your head tells you.


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## KenM (Apr 24, 2005)

If I knew she was still a drug user, I never would have made an effort to get to know her and become friends. I would have been civil to her and all, but nothing father then that. The reason I would not have taken it far is because I knew it would have ended bad and we would end up resenting each other, and thats what happened.


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