# Getting Back Into Miniature Painting - What Brushes Do I Need?



## Olaf the Stout (Apr 9, 2008)

Ok, so I've decided to start painting minis again.  It's been a while (and I didn't paint a heck of a lot of minis beforehand) so I'm having trouble remembering what size brushes I need.

I'm planning on painting Games Workshop fantasy minis or repainting D&D prepainted minis.

So what size brushes do I need to get?  And what about brush conditioner or cleaner?  What products would you recommend?

Olaf the Stout


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## WhatGravitas (Apr 9, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> So what size brushes do I need to get?  And what about brush conditioner or cleaner?  What products would you recommend?



Probably some bigger ones, size 1 and/or 2 for priming, rough basecoating, brush-on sealers and drybrushing larger areas. But to have some bigger ones is a no-brainer.

The more fiddly bits are the smaller ones, you need for detailing. Now, I have picked up painting about 3/4 year ago, so I'm no expert, but I've made the experience:

You need a brush that suits you. My friends (who have painted faaaar longer) swear by their Citadel Fine Detail Brushes for details - I think they're approximately size 0. I'm using them for larger areas, never for minute details. I'm using a W&N Cotman size 000 for eyes, faces and so on - it's harder, has a better tip, I love it, it made my painting better, just by using it... and paint tends to dry on it, if you're not thinning/fast enough.

I'd you have to try a bit to be happy with the brush size.

Also: Jen Haley has an article to that topic.

Cheers, LT.


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## Shape D. (Apr 9, 2008)

For regular mini's I'd say a 000, 1, and 2.

with that combo you've got a really small one for fine detail, a fairly small one for regular spots, and using the 2 for larger areas.

If with the GW mini's you were mentioning you're doing vehicles, I'd add a 4 or 5 in there.

(I've noticed though there's a fair difference between different manufacturers brush sizing though......


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## Doug Sundseth (Apr 9, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> So what size brushes do I need to get?  And what about brush conditioner or cleaner?  What products would you recommend?




The gold standard used to be the Winsor & Newton Series 7 or Series 7 Miniature Kolinsky sable round.  I've been told that W&N no longer has the same brush makers and their quality has dropped.  I use (and am quite happy with) the  Da Vinci Maestro Kolinsky Sable Round Series 10.  (The link is to Dick Blick, which has excellent service and very good prices.)

Good Kolinsky Sable brushes are expensive (relative to other brushes), but they are _absolutely_ worth the difference in price.  I regret the years I wasn't willing to spend the money for a good brush.

Brush size is a personal issue, but I do nearly all my painting with a #2 brush.  The relatively large brush size allows the brush to hold enough paint to keep from drying out immediately (a significant problem with 000 and smaller brushes). And one of the reasons to pay for a good brush is that the point is (and remains) so very good.  That da Vinci #2 has a better point than most 10/0 brushes I've used, even after using it for months.

I do keep a #0 and a #000 brush around, but I hardly ever even get them out of my brush holder.

Edited to add:

I use _The Masters Brush Cleaner and Preserver_ for general brush cleaning.  When brushes get really gunky (or after a few months), I use _Winsor & Newton Brush Cleaner and Restorer_.  Any really basic hair conditioner works fine to recondition a brush after a thorough cleaning.


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## pogre (Apr 10, 2008)

Dickblick is decent, but I find Art Supply Warehouse usually beats their prices and they are very fast.
http://www.aswexpress.com/

You have received solid brush advice so I will just say "ditto." 

edit: Sadly, they do not have the brand Doug S. recommended, but they do have W&N miniature #7s for very cheap. I kind of agree on the slight drop in quality, they are still an excellent brush though and at ASW prices you can afford a bunch.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 10, 2008)

If I go with Windsor and Newton Series 7 brushes, which are better to get, the regular Series 7 or the Miniature Series 7?  And what is the difference between the two?

Olaf the Stout


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## pogre (Apr 10, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> If I go with Windsor and Newton Series 7 brushes, which are better to get, the regular Series 7 or the Miniature Series 7?  And what is the difference between the two?
> 
> Olaf the Stout




The miniatures are shorter bristles, but I actually like the quality and points on the regular series better. I only use the 000 miniature for eyes, all of my other regularly used brushes are the regulars.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 10, 2008)

pogre said:
			
		

> The miniatures are shorter bristles, but I actually like the quality and points on the regular series better. I only use the 000 miniature for eyes, all of my other regularly used brushes are the regulars.




What size brushes do you normally use pogre?

Olaf the Stout


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## pogre (Apr 10, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> What size brushes do you normally use pogre?
> 
> Olaf the Stout




My main brush is a 0 (1/0), I use a 00 a fair amount also. I use the largest brush I can. For me larger brushes hold their points and wet paint longer. I have not used a 5/0 or 10/0 in years.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Apr 10, 2008)

I'll just add this to what others have said:

Have one extra brush you can afford to "wreck" for drybrushing. 

I know, the experts here will probably pooh-pooh the drybrush technique, but for anyone who is not an expert, drybrushing goes a long way to getting your minis table-quality.

And-- no offense intended, believe me-- I assume if you were an expert you wouldn't be asking advice on what brushes you need.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 11, 2008)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> I'll just add this to what others have said:
> 
> Have one extra brush you can afford to "wreck" for drybrushing.
> 
> ...




Oh, I'm so far from an expert painter that it's not funny so no offense taken.  I don't have much idea when it comes to brushes, apart from knowing that sable tends to be best.  That's why I was asking.  Having said that, I do know the basic techniques like drybrushing, shading and highlighting.  I have never heard anyone say that drybrushing is not the way that "experts" paint though.  In fact, I thought it was just another technique that they used.

As for drybrushing, I know how much it can kill your brushes so I have a flat acrylic brush I plan to use for precisely that purpose.

Olaf the Stout


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## WhatGravitas (Apr 11, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> Oh, I'm so far from an expert painter that it's not funny so no offense taken.  I don't have much idea when it comes to brushes, apart from knowing that sable tends to be best.  That's why I was asking.  Having said that, I do know the basic techniques like drybrushing, shading and highlighting.  I have never heard anyone say that drybrushing is not the way that "experts" paint though.  In fact, I thought it was just another technique that they used.



Some painters are almost _allergic_ to drybrushing - ask Anne Foerster on the Reaper forums!

The reason is simple: Almost everything you can do with drybrushing you can also do with sufficient patience. But drybrushing can easily go awry - doing it a bit wrong and *bamm* you have a splotchy, streaky mess (though good painters shouldn't make mistakes!  ). Another reason is: It's effective and gives you good results very easily - but this may hinder you, if you want to increase your skill - because it's too easy and too tempting to use (at least sometimes).

Though only experts have the time (and patience) to dismiss it. It's useful - and painting fur and feathers without drybrushing is probably only viable, if you're getting paid for it! Plus, if you're just wanting to do a bunch of orks/zombies/statues - you don't care for high quality.

Cheers, LT.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 11, 2008)

pogre said:
			
		

> My main brush is a 0 (1/0), I use a 00 a fair amount also. I use the largest brush I can. For me larger brushes hold their points and wet paint longer. I have not used a 5/0 or 10/0 in years.




Can you, or someone else explain brush sizes to me.  The Kolinsky Series 7 Brushes have sizes that range from 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, up to about 9.  At the same time I have seen people talk about 1/0, 5/0, 10/0 and even 20/0 brushes.  How does one scale equate to the other?

Olaf the Stout


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## pogre (Apr 11, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> Can you, or someone else explain brush sizes to me.  The Kolinsky Series 7 Brushes have sizes that range from 000, 00, 0, 1, 2, 3, up to about 9.  At the same time I have seen people talk about 1/0, 5/0, 10/0 and even 20/0 brushes.  How does one scale equate to the other?
> 
> Olaf the Stout




0 = 1/0 (small)
00 = 2/0 (smaller)
000 = 3/0 (smaller yet), etc.

Size 1 is larger than size 0, size 2 is larger than size 1, etc.

I never use anything larger than a size 1, and that is a lesser quality brush for me. Some of the finest painters in the world do use 1's a fair amount though.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 11, 2008)

pogre said:
			
		

> 0 = 1/0 (small)
> 00 = 2/0 (smaller)
> 000 = 3/0 (smaller yet), etc.
> 
> ...




So a 20/0 is equal to a 00000000000000000000?

What does it have, 1 solitary hair?  I thought that 00 might be equal to 2/0 but when I saw that there was a 20/0 brush I thought the sizing scale must be different between the two.

Olaf the Stout


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## pogre (Apr 11, 2008)

Olaf the Stout said:
			
		

> So a 20/0 is equal to a 00000000000000000000?




Supposedly. 20/0 are ridiculous and rarely true 20/0s. Honestly, most 3/0s will hold points, and allow for finer detail work than so called 10/0s.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 11, 2008)

pogre said:
			
		

> Supposedly. 20/0 are ridiculous and rarely true 20/0s. Honestly, most 3/0s will hold points, and allow for finer detail work than so called 10/0s.




I know how small the 3/0 brush I saw was.  I can't imagine what a 10/0 would look like, let alone a 20/0!

Olaf the Stout


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## Doug Sundseth (Apr 11, 2008)

One point on brush size:  IMO, the drier the air, the larger the brush you should use.  Larger brushes hold more paint, so they dry slower than smaller brushes.  If your relative humidity is low, very small brushes can dry out in the distance between picking up paint and trying to put it on the figure.

Note that the important number is the relative humidity in your painting space.  If you paint in a damp basement, that might be higher than what your local news stations report; if you paint in a cold climate, the relative humidity indoors can be very much lower than that outdoors.  For reference, I live in Colorado, where indoor relative humidities in the winter can go well below 10%, so I use a wet palette and the largest brush that's convenient.

From what I can find, Adelaide seems to be relatively humid, so brush size is perhaps a bit less critical there than it is here.  Still, well-thinned paint with as large a brush as you can manage to control is the best way to avoid visible brush strokes and chalky surfaces on miniatures.

Edited to add:

I've used 10/0 brushes.  I can get better detail with a good #2 brush than I can with a 10/0 brush.


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## Olaf the Stout (Apr 18, 2008)

I've decided to go with Windson & Newton Series 7 Brushes.  I plan to buy size 2, 1, 0 and 000 brushes.  I may get the size 000 brush in the Miniature series rather than the regular series.

To clean the brushes I'm also buying the Master's Brush Cleaner and Preserver as well as the Windsor & Newton Brush Cleaner and Restorer.

Am I missing anything?  Have I gone overboard in anything?

Olaf the Stout


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## Doug Sundseth (Apr 18, 2008)

It looks like you have plenty of brushes.  (You probably won't need all of them, but you'll probably not know which ones you don't need until after you try them.)

I would also consider getting a palette if you don't have one, either dry or wet.

If you like dry palettes, I prefer a porcelain "flower-petal" palette.  They're easy to clean and inexpensive, and they work quite well as long as you don't drop them.

If you like wet palettes (and people seem to either love or hate them), you might want to pick up some palette papers as well.


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