# I gotta ask: the "laugh" points, are they meant as appreciation or as mockery??



## CapnZapp (Aug 24, 2015)

This has been bugging me for a while now.

I thought "laugh points" were a good thing, for when you consider a post to be funny, crack a joke or similar, and the "have a XP" really isn't appropriate... 

(perhaps the post isn't serious enough to merit such an award; probably having two different award mechanisms is simply offered as a nice touch)

But.

It says 







 CapnZapp laughed at this post

Laughed *at*?

Am I overly sensitive, or is being *laughed at* something not very nice? Isn't this the equivalent of school-yard bullying?

Am I missing some subtlety of the English language here, or is the intent really to provide a double-edged sword, where a laugh point can both mean "hah that was genuinely funny" and "hah I'm laughing at your stupid and clumsy post"?

Or is it the fact that the icon 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




 is much more ambivalent than the  or the  (two smilies that at least I find very straightforward in presenting a genuinely positive emotion)...?


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## Morrus (Aug 24, 2015)

It means somebody enjoyed your joke.


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## Umbran (Aug 24, 2015)

CapnZapp said:


> Laughed *at*?
> 
> Am I overly sensitive, or is being *laughed at* something not very nice? Isn't this the equivalent of school-yard bullying?




I think you are looking a bit too hard at, and reading too much into, exact wording.  It is supposed to denote that you found the post amusing, enjoyable, and funny.  It is not intended to mock the post.


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## Rune (Aug 24, 2015)

I've seen it used both ways. But, if anyone ever uses it to mock you, You can take consolation in the XP that it also grants you (I think).


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## CapnZapp (Aug 25, 2015)

Morrus and Umbran: thank you for your replies. It does appear this usage is news to you, but more importantly, I take your answers to mean you didn't design it to be ambiguous intentionally.

Thank you, Rune, for backing up my impression that the laugh points can indeed be used to deride and belittle a post.


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## Morrus (Aug 25, 2015)

If you think somebody is mocking or belittling somebody on EN World, please let us know.


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## El Mahdi (Oct 15, 2015)

Morrus said:


> If you think somebody is mocking or belittling somebody on EN World, please let us know.




As often as it's used to laugh at a joke (or maybe even more), people are using it on posts that are obviously not jokes, and doing so as a form of "negative xp" or a way to bypass ENWorlds rules as concerns civility.  It's being done all over the place.

So, not to be snarky but legitimately asking: Will it really make a difference if we let you know? (let moderation know?)

Because I have, and nothing happened...  (example below...and yes, I did report it...)

Just in the last day and half, MoonSong(Kaiilurker) did it four times over three different threads - all directed at one poster.  ( here , here , here , and here )


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## Morrus (Oct 16, 2015)

El Mahdi said:


> So, not to be snarky but legitimately asking: Will it really make a difference if we let you know? (let moderation know?)




Yes, but be aware that we're pretty swamped right now with the influx of new posters.  I expect things to calm down soon.


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## CapnZapp (Oct 17, 2015)

Thank you, El Mahdi, for backing up my impression that the laugh points can indeed be used to deride and belittle a post.


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## Rune (Oct 20, 2015)

CapnZapp said:


> Morrus and Umbran: thank you for your replies. It does appear this usage is news to you, but more importantly, I take your answers to mean you didn't design it to be ambiguous intentionally.
> 
> Thank you, Rune, for backing up my impression that the laugh points can indeed be used to deride and belittle a post.




Of course, sometimes it's just a mistake. I mostly browse on one of the older tiny-screen iPhones and I've accidentally hit Laugh instead of XP with my big, clumsy, low-dex finger. Several times. And since it takes a full 10 minutes(!) to correct that mistake (300 seconds before you can take it back and another 300 seconds before you can "click" on XP) I sometimes just let it stand.


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## CaptainGemini (Oct 22, 2015)

I click laugh for something I geniunely find funny.

Unfortunately, the wait time between clicks means not all posts I find funny get a laugh.


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## CapnZapp (Dec 11, 2016)

Perhaps I'm just way late to the party, but anyhoo



Kudos for this change (laugh with instead of laugh at)


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## CapnZapp (Apr 18, 2017)

I can provide examples of a poster clearly using the Laugh button as a "laugh at" bullying tactic instead of the "laugh with" behavior as intended.

I will not name any names here and now (preferring to report the posts to the mod team) - this post is meant to restart the discussion. 

Yes, this happens, and yes, it is IMHO a problem.


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## ccs (Apr 19, 2017)

CapnZapp said:


> I can provide examples of a poster clearly using the Laugh button as a "laugh at" bullying tactic instead of the "laugh with" behavior as intended.
> 
> I will not name any names here and now (preferring to report the posts to the mod team) - this post is meant to restart the discussion.
> 
> Yes, this happens, and yes, it is IMHO a problem.




Didn't you already try & beat this dead horse fairly recently?

I seem to recall it boiling down to:
1) No matter your intent behind whatever you post, you don't have any control over what others find funny.
2) BUT, if you have a problem, report it.
3) Maybe you just need a thicker skin.


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## CapnZapp (Apr 24, 2018)

[MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]: this issue doesn't go away. 

I'm going to report a series of my own posts where a user clicks laugh (yes, I know the button is called "laugh _with_ this post") even though my remarks are not in any sense made with humor in mind. 

In short, I find it impossible to interpret this as anything else than mockery. 

I am writing this post because I know you are busy and might have a mod handle the reporting, so you might not even see the series of reported posts. (I need to post this first so I can include a link in my reports for your moderation convenience) 

If you or your mods redtext the user to stop abusing the laugh functionality all is well in the world. But I am ressurrecting this thread to clearly flag that it is not a new issue, and it remains a serious one. I've gotten dozens of laugh points I could have done well without, and I feel that if I do not bring thus back up to your attention it will never stop. I can't be alone in getting these points that only burn. 

If you can't or won't moderate this behavior, please consider disabling laugh points - systemwide. (Please do not suggest I should disable the xp system for my own account - I am sure you realize that would amount to punishing the bully victim - "since you can't handle getting laughed at, maybe you don't deserve any xp at all")

Thank you for reading. I remain hopeful you will take action against this kind of behavior.

Regards,
Zapp


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## ccs (Apr 24, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]: this issue doesn't go away.
> 
> I'm going to report a series of my own posts where a user clicks laugh (yes, I know the button is called "laugh _with_ this post") even though my remarks are not in any sense made with humor in mind.
> 
> ...




You can tell it's April....
Look, there's a simple solution for you that doesn't involve punishing everyone else by removing the laugh system.
Why don't you just block those you think are laughing at you & be done with it?


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## DemoMonkey (Apr 24, 2018)

I for one applaud the versatility of the laugh button.


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## Morrus (Apr 24, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION]: this issue doesn't go away.
> 
> I'm going to report a series of my own posts where a user clicks laugh (yes, I know the button is called "laugh _with_ this post") even though my remarks are not in any sense made with humor in mind.
> 
> ...




There's a bunch of privacy options available to you. Disabling it on your own account is not a punishment, but if that option doesn't work for you the block feature sounds like a perfect solution.


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## Nagol (Apr 24, 2018)

Morrus said:


> There's a bunch of privacy options available to you. Disabling it on your own account is not a punishment, but if that option doesn't work for you the block feature sounds like a perfect solution.




As someone who has disabled xp, it doesn't do what you and [MENTION=12731]CapnZapp[/MENTION] are implying it does.  All the disablement does is limit total reporting on posts I make.  Users can still give both xp and laughs to accounts with xp disabled.


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## CapnZapp (Apr 25, 2018)

Morrus said:


> There's a bunch of privacy options available to you. Disabling it on your own account is not a punishment, but if that option doesn't work for you the block feature sounds like a perfect solution.



I'm getting really disappointed in your reply Morrus.

Why should I have to block transgressors? How does that help others? Why aren't people that abuse features getting sanctioned?

I've brought this up several times, but I'm getting dismissed every time. Why aren't you taking this seriously?

My goal here isn't to nail any user. My goal here is to convince you the Laugh points can and are abused. If you can't or won't make any technical changes (which I can understand) then redtext transgressors so the system works as intended. I'm not even convinced they realize they're doing anything wrong. With no moderation and no specific mention in the rules, how can they?

I'm happy for the overwhelming majority of laugh points I get. But the system is abusable, it is abused, and it is time for it to end. Only you can do that, which I'd why we're having this conversation. 

Z


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## Morrus (Apr 25, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> Why should I have to block transgressors?




Privacy tools are a standard feature of social media, including forums. It’s up to you whether to avail yourself of them. They have been made available to you. 



> I've brought this up several times, but I'm getting dismissed every time.




Hmmm....


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## CapnZapp (Apr 25, 2018)

Morrus said:


> Privacy tools are a standard feature of social media, including forums. It’s up to you whether to avail yourself of them. They have been made available to you.
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm....



So your official reply to anyone feeling mocked through the Laugh point system is: hold your tongue, silently block the transgressor after the fact, let him move on to somebody else without him even knowing or realizing what he's done? With no help or support from the moderators? 

That's a stark contrast to your talk about Enworld being inclusive and welcoming


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## Morrus (Apr 25, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> So your official reply to anyone feeling mocked through the Laugh point system is: hold your tongue, silently block the transgressor after the fact, let him move on to somebody else without him even knowing or realizing what he's done? With no help or support from the moderators?




No, those are your words. My reply is in my posts.


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## Morrus (Apr 25, 2018)

To also be clear -- moderator action _absolutely does not_ get publicly demanded in Meta. That is the opposite of how moderation in this community works. There is no chance whatsoever of a precedent of somebody coming to Meta and demanding I spank somebody publicly taking place. You reported the post(s), we'll decide what to do from there, if anything.

Additionally, when you report a post, coming to Meta to try to force a particular outcome is also completely inappropriate.


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## DemoMonkey (Apr 25, 2018)

The Laugh button is merely an indicator that someone found the post amusing.

WHY they found it amusing is really only the business of the one laughing. Humour is possibly the most subjective thing in interpersonal communication. 

It is rarely wise to ascribe motivations to people on the internet unless you are an actual telepath. In which case, can you look in my head and see where I left my recipe for pralines? Thanksyerapeach.


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