# The coolest, classic D&D BBEG!



## The Serge (Sep 12, 2002)

As the title indicates, we're looking at classic, big bad evil guys (or gals).  So, that would exclude Vangal and the folks from the Scarred Lands, the various villains from Bastion Press, and the recent baddies.

For the most part, I used villains that have appeared at least once to a significant degree in a campaign's history (including novels), a module, or who has a huge reputation despite not being in much.  So, Dispater, the driving force behind one of the best Planescape modules, _Fires of Dis_ appears, while Geryon... who's Asmodeus' lackey in _A Paladin in Hell_ does not.

Additionally, there are no multiple votes, so I'm making this one tough!

If there's someone you wish to add, feel free to check other and then explain who and why (also indicate the game world and or module/adventure in which the BBEG appeared)  Remember, classic villains, not homebrew (if that was the case, I would win!).  Also, explain why if he/she is listed if you'd like.

Let's go!


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## hong (Sep 12, 2002)

I voted for Graz'zt, because he's an admin on this board.

And besides which, how can you not love someone with two z's in his name?


Hong "don't answer that" Ooi


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## radferth (Sep 12, 2002)

What? No Iuz?  Damn you, Rose Estes!


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## Xarlen (Sep 12, 2002)

I voted for Cyric.

Cyric's a sneaky, scheming, twisted God of a man. He plays with dillusions and lies, and madness. How BBEG can you get? The puppetmaster, man in the shadows.

Of course, I've always loved Artemis Entrari (Yay for someone who could Kill Drizzt!), and Elaith Caulnober. Of course, Elaith has always been more of an Anti-Hero, Anti-Elf kind've twisted character, who I just delight in reading about. Entrari is somewhat of an Anti-hero. And, he could Kill Drizzt, so that's a thumb's up.

I'd toss a vote in for Jarlaxle, but he's more of a Grey area, then an actual, deep-seated villain. More a Neutral kinda guy.


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## TiQuinn (Sep 12, 2002)

Yeah, I think Iuz is an oversight.  He would definitely be a big vote getter.  A couple of other possibilities would be Lord Soth of Dragonlance and Ravenloft fame and Iggwilv the Witch Queen of Perrenland.  You might also throw Gruumsh in there.  However, I think these would be more for the sake of completeness than anything else.

I voted for Lloth.  There are others who may be more powerful and certainly just as wicked, but I couldn't think of any BBEG who has had more of an impact on D&D.  She's the focus of a classic module, Queen of the Demonweb Pits, which in turn is the culmination of one of the most popular module series ever - the GDK modules (GDK?  Or is it GDQ?  That one always gets me!).  She's the driving force behind one of the most popular bad guy races ever: the Drow.  She's the behind the scenes villain for the Dark Elf Trilogy.  She's had her fingers in more pies than any other god, uber mage, or demon out there!


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## Xarlen (Sep 12, 2002)

Don't forget Temple of Elemental Evil!


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## TiQuinn (Sep 12, 2002)

Trouble with Temple of Elemental Evil was I couldn't keep track of all the gods and demons involved in that one!  Lloth, Iuz, Zuggotmoy!  And then Monte Cook has to go and throw Tharizdun into the mix too!  Sheesh! 

But I loved it all the same!


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## John Crichton (Sep 12, 2002)

Artemis Entreri.

Drizzt's dark shadow.  When he finally got the spotlight, he was great.  I wish R.A.S. would focus on Entreri more....

There are many others on this list that are cool, too.  But his was the first name that came to mind.


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## MasterOfHeaven (Sep 12, 2002)

Cyric.  Definitely one of my favorite evil Gods of all time, and a decidedly wicked villian as well.  Cyric is my favorite kind of villian.  He's like The Joker, Satan, or even Loki.  Insidious, brilliant, ruthless and slightly unhinged.


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## Nightfall (Sep 12, 2002)

Darn you Serge!!!  Still at least I have Orcus to fall back on.


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## Ruined (Sep 12, 2002)

I had to be the lone voter for Azlain, the lich. His machinations nearly destroyed Ravenloft twice. And anyway, I've always felt he was a much cooler Lich than that guy missing his hand and his eye...


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## Ferret (Sep 12, 2002)

Xarlen said:
			
		

> *Of course, I've always loved Artemis Entrari (Yay for someone who could Kill Drizzt!), and Elaith Caulnober. Of course, Elaith has always been more of an Anti-Hero, Anti-Elf kind've twisted character, who I just delight in reading about. Entrari is somewhat of an Anti-hero. And, he could Kill Drizzt, so that's a thumb's up. *




I'd mark him as LN actually, 1) He never did anything for himself selfishly, he does that stuff for pook 2)Rivalry isn't evil, if he'd killed other innocents for his own goal(fight drizzt) then that was evil 3) He followed the rules in Menzoberanzan, and didn't kill ghim at the end. And I reckon he couldn't, when Drizzt rages, he must put up his dex not his con. But the hunter is nigh unbeatable when he rages.


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## Gothmog (Sep 12, 2002)

Gotta be Tharizdun- look back at the old 1E Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun, and his history in Greyhawk.  The bugger has been asleep/imprisoned for so long that most people forgot about him, but if he were to break free and become active again, everything goes to hell.  Plus, for some reason, he always struck me as having some cool Cthulhu-ish undertones. Cant beat that!  There simply isn't another BBEG who can claim to cause such panic and distress in any other published game world.


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## The Serge (Sep 12, 2002)

Well, although I like Asmodeus more than any other, I voted for Acererak.

_Tomb of Horrors_ remains one of the nastiest games ever put out by TSR/WotC.  Although some have argued (probably accurately) that some of the instant death attacks were outrageous, that one game established the lost, subterranean temple as one of the best locations for a serious, brooding campaign.  And, it also introduced the dreaded Demilich, Acererak.  Although it didn't give him the most personality (although it did highlight that he was a sadistic bastard who enjoyed screwing with peoples minds.  Good gods, the riddles!), but it did introduce one of the best monsters this side of a Dragon.

Then, Bruce R. Cordell did the _Return to the Tomb of Horrors_, introducing much needed background information, and revitalizing the mega-dungeon crawl.  Although I wished Cordell had waited for 3ed for this fantastic sequel, I loved how he handled Acererak, giving him an interesting (if somewhat cliched) background, tremendous power, and the ability to have a massive impact on D&D.  

Other favorites include the devil Strahd, Azalin, and Orcus, although I've always had a soft spot for Tiamat.  I meant to include Iuz the Old but somehow forgot.  Sorry!

However, I think it's high time Asmodeus and the Lords of the Nine had a huge module/mega-adventure dedicated to them.  The use Steve Perrin put Dispater through in _Fires of Dis_ was great, and Monte Cook did a superb job with Asmodeus in _A Paladin in Hell_.  Imagine a huge adventure from 1st to 30th level in which players slowly learn that Asmodeus is behind a ploy to not only destroy their planet, but to damn all inhabitants to Hell!  Oh!!!!  I'm getting chills just thinking about it!


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## kenjib (Sep 12, 2002)

Acererak -- iconic arch-villain.


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## Xarlen (Sep 12, 2002)

Ferret said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'd mark him as LN actually, 1) He never did anything for himself selfishly, he does that stuff for pook 2)Rivalry isn't evil, if he'd killed other innocents for his own goal(fight drizzt) then that was evil 3) He followed the rules in Menzoberanzan, and didn't kill ghim at the end. And I reckon he couldn't, when Drizzt rages, he must put up his dex not his con. But the hunter is nigh unbeatable when he rages. *




And what about the ruthless killing? He's an Assassin. He killed people for cash. If you read _Servant of the Shard_, he makes some serious stuff. Not to mention dominating the Evil sword. 

But, hey, I still love Entrari.


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## Xarlen (Sep 12, 2002)

MasterOfHeaven said:
			
		

> *Cyric.  Definitely one of my favorite evil Gods of all time, and a decidedly wicked villian as well.  Cyric is my favorite kind of villian.  He's like The Joker, Satan, or even Loki.  Insidious, brilliant, ruthless and slightly unhinged. *




Which Loki we talkin' about? The Norse Loki was more a trickster and prankmaster then a _Villain_. 

But, yes, Cyric is the Sadisticly Intelligent Bastard Villain (TM).

Bane's always struck me as a pompus, bullying wuss. Cyric is the True patron of the Zhents.


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## MeepoTheMighty (Sep 12, 2002)

Xarlen said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Which Loki we talkin' about? The Norse Loki was more a trickster and prankmaster then a Villain.
> 
> ...





Bah.  Cyric is a self-centered, megalomaniacal coward who couldn't properly snivel his way out of a wet paper bag.  His followers are more dangerous to each other than they are to anyone else.  The best way to get rid of a cult of Cyricists is to let another cult of Cyricists know they're there.


Bane, on the other hand, is the Real Ultimate Evil.  Not only will he enslave your kids, subvert your government, and dominate your free will, he'll look damn good while he does it.  That man's got STYLE.


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## The Serge (Sep 12, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Darn you Serge!!!  *




Heh heh heh.  Yeah, I took the Scarred Lands guys out, and thought about you, Nightfall!  Heh heh heh...


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## TiQuinn (Sep 12, 2002)

I'm just shocked that the true great evil in the universe wasn't included in the poll....Venger!


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## Xarlen (Sep 12, 2002)

MeepoTheMighty said:
			
		

> *Bah.  Cyric is a self-centered, megalomaniacal coward who couldn't properly snivel his way out of a wet paper bag.*




This coming from a Kobold.



> *Bane, on the other hand, is the Real Ultimate Evil.  Not only will he enslave your kids, subvert your government, and dominate your free will, he'll look damn good while he does it.  That man's got STYLE. *




Double BAH! Did you read the Time of Troubles trilogy? Bane was pompus, whiny, arrogant, and he _Cried_ when his pet wizard died. Do you want your evil gods _crying_? Yes, style. Style with a box of klennex. I guess he'll weep for the subverted goverment, and enslaved children. 

"I'm so eeevil! *Sniffle*"


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## The Serge (Sep 12, 2002)

TiQuinn said:
			
		

> *I'm just shocked that the true great evil in the universe wasn't included in the poll....Venger!   *




Heh heh heh heh...

Now, that was funny!  

Actually, I think if Venger -- hell, ALL of that cartoon -- were treated in a more intense, mature fashion, Venger would have been a FANTASTIC villain.  

He looked cool.  Although he was very powerful, he wasn't stupid, and fled (consistently from Tiamat) when the day was lost.  Although he wanted world domination, it was clear that there was some kind of relationship between him and the Dungeon Master that may have been most interesting.  And, when the series finale aired (I only saw it twice), the fight he had against those brats was actually pretty cool.  They _HATED_ him in the way PCs truly hate great, villainous NPCs.

I think we should end this poll!  It's settled!  Venger is THE BBEG!


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## MeepoTheMighty (Sep 12, 2002)

Xarlen said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This coming from a Kobold.
> 
> *



  Touche.



> *
> 
> Double BAH! Did you read the Time of Troubles trilogy? Bane was pompus, whiny, arrogant, and he Cried when his pet wizard died. Do you want your evil gods crying? Yes, style. Style with a box of klennex. I guess he'll weep for the subverted goverment, and enslaved children.
> 
> ...




At least Bane didn't need to write a silly book to prove he was the most powerful being in existence.  

"MUWAHAHAHA!!!!  I'm so EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL that I'm going to conquer a semi-literate world with a BOOK!  Hmm...I think I'd better flip through the index.....OH MY GOD I'VE GONE CRAZY!!! WHAT A STUPID IDEA FOR A BOOK!!!"


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## Xarlen (Sep 12, 2002)

MeepoTheMighty said:
			
		

> *
> "MUWAHAHAHA!!!!  I'm so EEEEEEEEEEEEVIL that I'm going to conquer a semi-literate world with a BOOK!  Hmm...I think I'd better flip through the index.....OH MY GOD I'VE GONE CRAZY!!! WHAT A STUPID IDEA FOR A BOOK!!!" *




Well, Technically, Cyric was allready insane to begin with, so Nyah!


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## MasterOfHeaven (Sep 12, 2002)

MeepoTheMighty said:
			
		

> *  Touche.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




My... ribs...  ROFLMAO!  I both thank you and warn you not to mock Lord Cyric again.


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## Ashardalon (Sep 12, 2002)

The Serge said:
			
		

> *So, that would exclude ... the recent baddies.
> *



Blasphemy!


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## Wolfen Priest (Sep 12, 2002)

Dude.... Tiamat.  TIAMAT!

Although I was close to voting for Orcus.


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## the Jester (Sep 12, 2002)

The Serge said:
			
		

> *
> Actually, I think if Venger -- hell, ALL of that cartoon -- were treated in a more intense, mature fashion, Venger would have been a FANTASTIC villain.
> 
> He looked cool.  Although he was very powerful, he wasn't stupid, and fled (consistently from Tiamat) when the day was lost.  Although he wanted world domination, it was clear that there was some kind of relationship between him and the Dungeon Master that may have been most interesting. *





He was the DungeonMaster's son.


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## Ravellion (Sep 12, 2002)

Raistlin. Come on, he killed his own brother (he didn't know it was an illusion) during his Test of High Sorcery, and thought that enslaving ansolon was something he could do, but was beneath him. Kitiara claimed him to be insane... but we all learned that he could do it... and the revenge he pulled on Parsalian in that original timeline, where he did defeat all other gods... till that oh so loveable kender messed with stuff...

Rav


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## Mistwell (Sep 12, 2002)

Iuz.


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## orbitalfreak (Sep 12, 2002)

Cyric, Prince of Lies, the Black Sun.

He's sadistic enough to enjoy the evil he creates, and crazy enough to not care who he threatens.  This guy not only can threaten PC's and entire campaigns, he threatened the very balance of power in the FR Pantheon.


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## VorpalBunny (Sep 13, 2002)

Without a doubt, it has to be Acererak.  The biggest, baddest demi-lich of 'em all, and the inventor of the TPK.


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## brun (Sep 13, 2002)

Raistlin everyone! Have heard of any other baddy that killed all the gods? Is there anyone who acts with more self-confidence ? Who is more focused ? Who appears weaker ?


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## Xarlen (Sep 13, 2002)

Let's not forget Rastlin turned Tenser into a smurf.

Or was that Rary?


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## Staffan (Sep 13, 2002)

I can't believe you forgot the coolest villain *ever* in D&D.

The fiend who slew Aleena?

The man who was once described as "So twisted, he needs a corkscrew to put on his robes in the morning"?

BARGLE!


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## BBrendolfus (Sep 13, 2002)

I have to say Lord Soth from Dargaard Keep. A peripheral villain from the Dragonlance world.

This deathknight (and co.) has killed too many pcs for me not to like him.


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## Chun-tzu (Sep 13, 2002)

Raistlin (arguably) redeemed himself. Definitely an awesome character, but no BBEG. Entreri also has a streak of conscience. Neither of these guys is the essence of evil.

But I'm having a hard time choosing between Bane, Cyric, Lolth, and Tiamat (I don't know the Greyhawk guys).


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## gordonknox (Sep 13, 2002)

*Keraptis*

Keraptis 

S2: White Plume Mountain


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## TiQuinn (Sep 13, 2002)

Wow, Steffan.  I think you might've nailed it.

Poor little cleric.....never knew what hit her!


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## Agamon (Sep 13, 2002)

Orcus.  Definitely Orcus.  Though Lolth and Tiamat come close.


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## John Crichton (Sep 13, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *Raistlin (arguably) redeemed himself. Definitely an awesome character, but no BBEG. Entreri also has a streak of conscience. Neither of these guys is the essence of evil.*



I tend to like my BBEG's less one-dimensional than PURE evil.    It just makes for a better story.  But hey, that's not to say that those antagonists that are pure evil don't serve a purpose because they do.

It's what makes a villain like Entrari, Raistlin or (I know he's not D&D but he fits the mold I like) Darth Vader so cool.


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## rounser (Sep 13, 2002)

Ack!  Staffan beat me to it.  Bargle, indeed, and not to forget the one and only Baron Ludwig von Hendriks!  Both have the facial hair and attitude of classic villains.  Twirl those moustaches and cackle one time, aight!

Other also-rans and favourites:

Lord Soth (before he got ruined by Ravenloft and pot plants)
Halaster (before he got ruined by the novels)
The Egg of Coot (for being mysterious, wacky and threatening)
The Witch-King of Vaasa (high-powered villainy is him)
Larloch (for being so passive and so untapped - stat block villainy)
Gargantua (for bothering to produce big monsters just because)
The Queen of Air and Darkness (forget the drow and Lolth, the real unseelie are where it's at)



> Bane, on the other hand, is the Real Ultimate Evil. Not only will he enslave your kids, subvert your government, and dominate your free will, he'll look damn good while he does it. That man's got STYLE.



Pull the other one!  Bane is waaay overrated and has anything _but_ class, IMO - I think it must be his kewl name that pulls the wool over people's eyes.  Even Cyric has more class than Bane, by now, reading his own Cyrinishad and going insane as a result...

At least Bhaal was a go-getter and had _focus_....he almost did in the Moonshaes and was a very good sport at making a comeback after the Time of Troubles (if you consider the Baldur's Gate CRPGs canon).


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## Xarlen (Sep 13, 2002)

rounser said:
			
		

> *Ack!  Staffan beat me to it.  Bargle, indeed, and not to forget the one and only Baron Ludwig von Hendriks!  Both have the facial hair and attitude of classic villains.  Twirl those moustaches and cackle one time, aight!*




I gotta ask, what is Bargle from?



> Halaster (before he got ruined by the novels)




Forget 'Excape from Undermount', which was just DORKY. Try the short story in set in Skullport, I think in 'Tales of the Underdark'. He's like a Dark Elminster, definetly weird and plotting, no less.




> Larloch (for being so passive and so untapped - stat block villainy)




Hehe. Someone mentioned him on the Boards, and he sounds Scary as anything.  He's just a passive 'I want to study magic' Lich... With an undead, magical, and monster army big enough to make the Realms cry for mommy. 



> The Queen of Air and Darkness (forget the drow and Lolth, the real unseelie are where it's at)




Yeah! Unseelie are nasty, twisted little suckers.


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## rounser (Sep 13, 2002)

> I gotta ask, what is Bargle from?



The oD&D Basic red box.  You fight Bargle in both adventures in it, from memory.  He kills Aleena...so sad...

He's also a fixture of the Black Eagle Barony and a crony of von Hendriks in Karameikos in Mystara/Known World before wars and adventurers muck things up.  

Ludwig and Bargle are kind of like Dastardly and Muttley, if you will.


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## Nightfall (Sep 13, 2002)

The Serge said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Heh heh heh.  Yeah, I took the Scarred Lands guys out, and thought about you, Nightfall!  Heh heh heh...
> 
> *




Figures but like I said, I'm sticking with Orcus. He's da'DEMON Prince!  

But if it were me, I'd probably go Travik. Anyone that can get the powers of ultimate blackguard and NOT have levels in paladin ROCKS!


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## Xarlen (Sep 13, 2002)

I'm far too young.


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## anowack (Sep 13, 2002)

Ooh, this is a tough one...  I thought I knew who it would be, but someone had to mention good old Ludwig and Bargle.  I almost cried when they got booted out of Karameikos.

However, I think I will go with my original inclination (who Bargle actually works for in my campaign)... none other than the incomparable Lord of Lies, Hosadus the Master of Hule and High Priest of Bozdogon the Deciever (also known as Loki, though this Loki is considerably more evil than the "real world" Loki).

There really is nothing quite like watching your players lead bloody fighting on the steps of the Merchant's Guildhall in Darokin City, desperately trying to buy a few more hours in hopes that relief forces from Karameikos will arrive in time to force back the beseiging army.

Sources, BTW, are modules X4: Master of the Desert Nomads, X5: The Temple of Death, and X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield, as well as The Immortals' Fury campaign from the Wrath of the Immortals boxset.


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## Leopold (Sep 13, 2002)

Tharzdun..he's a greater god for pete's sake. He can turn your brain to tapioca pudding and then enslave you. Hell he made Zugotmy, IUZ, and Lolth his puppets.

He=Teh winnah!!


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 13, 2002)

Larloch ownz, Sasz Tamm is like a son to him.. in a evil.. disgusting... rotting.. undead.. lichie .. kinda way......... not to forget powerhungry.

Anyone who is treated as overpowerfull and as a kind of father by Sasz Tam must be great evil, he must inspire him.. and to inspire and impress and make Sasz Tam feel scared... you're goood... and you play among the greatest...


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## Bragg Battleaxe (Sep 13, 2002)

I voted for Tiamat, but now I am thinking that Lolth is really the most influential and important of all these. Strahd would be my bronze medal winner.


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## Celebrim (Sep 13, 2002)

I voted for Ascerak, but Strahd runs a close second in my esteem.

Other significant achievement in villany: Tharizdun, Lord Soth, and Tiamat.


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## Alaric_Prympax (Sep 13, 2002)

It was a very tough choice but I ended up voting for Tharizdun because it took all the other gods, both good and evil, to imprison him to save the multiverse from entropy (IIRC) and everyone fears his release. 

Now that's the power to instill fear! 

Impressive... Most Impressive.


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## bloodymage (Sep 13, 2002)

Asmodeus. Well because...he's Asmodeous! As a DM my players would have a tiny chance against any of these BBEGs. Against The Man himself, they'd need a miracle!


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## Tratyn Runewind (Sep 13, 2002)

Hello!

Ah, Bargle.  Classic mustachio-twirling arcane villainy.  Gotta love him.  And his decision during the halfling invasion of his master's realm was priceless...  



> Posted by TiQuinn:
> *Wow, Steffan. I think you might've nailed it.
> 
> Poor little cleric.....never knew what hit her! *






> Posted by rounser:
> *He kills Aleena...so sad...*




Now, now, lads, buck up.  It's not as bad as all that.  Aleena's doing fine - nothing like cleverly arranging to be born the daughter of an 18th-level cleric...  



> Posted by Steffan:
> *The man who was once described as "So twisted, he needs a corkscrew to put on his robes in the morning"?*




Yes, Terari does have a way with words, doesn't he?  He's definitely one of my favorite characters in all of Mystara.

For those interested, here's the stat block for my 3e version of Bargle, converted principally from the last set of his _real_ (i. e., OD&D) stats, as found in the _Poor Wizard's Almanac II_:

*Bargle the Infamous*, Ex-Magist of the Black Eagle Barony (Karameikos).

Human Male Rogue 3/Wizard 25; CR 28; Medium-size Humanoid(Human); HD 3d8+25d4; hp 80; Init +7 (Dex, Improved Initiative); Spd 30 ft. (_Bracers of Armor+8_); AC 23 (_Bracers of Armor+8_, _Staff of Power_, Dex); Atk +21/+16 melee (1d4+2 w/crit 17-20/x2; _Dagger+3_); AL CE; Sv Fort+12, Ref+17, Will+16 (all saves include +2 bonus for _Staff of Power_); Str 9, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 25, Wis 9, Cha 15. Height 6'1"; Weight c. 140 lb. _Skills and Feats_: Alchemy+27, Appraise+12, Bluff+12, Climb+4, Concentrate+31, Diplomacy+16, Escape Artist+8, Hide+8, Jump+4, Knowledge(Arcana)+38, Knowledge(History)+22, Knowledge(Local/Karameikos)+17, Knowledge(Nature)+22, Knowledge(Nobility and Royalty)+17, Knowledge(the Planes)+27, Listen+7, Move Silently+8, Profession(Siege Engineer)+14, Scry+22, Search+4, Sense Motive+4, Spellcraft+38, Spot+4, Tumble+8; Dirty Fighting, Empower Spell, Extend Spell, Greater Spell Focus(Enchantment), Heighten Spell, Improved Critical(Dagger), Improved Initiative, Improved Spell Capacity x 3, Multispell, Quicken Spell, Run, Scribe Scroll, Spell Focus(Enchantment), Weapon Finesse(Dagger), Weapon Focus(Dagger). _SA_: Sneak Attack +2d6, Spells. _SQ_: Evasion (if makes Reflex save for 1/2 damage, takes no damage), Uncanny Dodge (keeps Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed or vs. invisible attackers). _Posessions_: _Dagger+3_, _Bracers of Armor+8_, _Staff of Power_ (50 charges), _Horn of Blasting_, plus unknown others. Spells Prepared(4/6/6/6/5/5/5/5/4/4/1/1/1): 0 - _Detect Magic_ (2), _Mage Hand_, _Read Magic_; 1 - _Charm Person_ (2), _Magic Missile_, _Shield_, _Silent Image_, _Sleep_; 2 - _Invisibility_ (3), _Levitate_, _Mirror Image_, _See Invisibility_; 3 - _Dispel Magic_ (2), _Fireball_ (2), _Hold Person_, Extended _Protection from Arrows_; 4 - _Charm Monster_ (2), _Ice Storm_, _Wall of Fire_, _Wall of Ice_; 5 - _Cloudkill_, _Lesser Planar Binding_, _Passwall_, _Teleport_, _Wall of Stone_; 6 - _Antimagic Field_, _Disintegrate_ (3), _Planar Binding_; 7 - _Finger of Death_ (2), _Power Word Stun_, _Teleport Without Error_ (2); 8 - _Horrid Wilting_, _Incendiary Cloud_ (2), _Mind Blank_; 9 - _Dominate Monster_, _Power Word Kill_, _Time Stop_ (2); 10 - Quickened _Disintegrate_; 11 - Quickened double Empowered _Fireball_; 12 - Quickened _Horrid Wilting_. Spellbook: All Wizard spells in _Player's Handbook_, plus unknown others. Languages: Common(Thyatian), Traladaran, Goblin, Orc, Kobold, Abyssal. 

anowack has a point, though, when he reminds us that the Master of the Desert Nomads has produced a lot more epic-scale ruin and destruction in Mystara.  By that standard, the Immortal Rad should be high on the list, for his rebellion in the halls of Pandius, and its consequent war of the Wrath of the Immortals.  He wasn't malicious, and there are those who would argue about how evil he truly was, but he was tragically proud and stubborn, and willing to make any sacrifice in the pursuit of knowledge - his followers burned all clerics they could catch for many years to prevent reliance on the "crutch" of divine magic and to enforce elevation of reason over revelation, and he pursued his researches even at the risk of destroying all magic and magical races on his world.  

As-yet-unmentioned Mystaran candidates and possibilities include Barimoor, half the Princes of Glantri, Telemon and Tandaleyo of the Shadowelves, Thar the Orc-King, "Emperor" Zandor of Alphatia, the "Black King" and "Black Queen" of the cult of Alphaks, Wulf von Klagendorf and his Heldannic Knights, and the Immortals Alphaks, Atzanteotl, Loki, Ranivorous, and Thanatos.  

Turning to my other favorite world, Birthright (can I really be the first in this thread to mention it?) - well, a lot of the awnshegh are just plain wicked cool.  The Gorgon is the obvious power player here, but is just a little _too_ Sauron-esque in his role for my tastes.  The Serpent, the Magian, and the Raven are the other major awnshegh regents, Ruobhe Manslayer takes the attitude of elven superiority to chilling extremes, and the Diabolyk seemed like the coolest of the non-regents.  

So there are a few more names to kick around.  This is a fun discussion - it'll be interesting to see where it leads...


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## hong (Sep 13, 2002)

MeepoTheMighty said:
			
		

> *
> Bane, on the other hand, is the Real Ultimate Evil.  Not only will he enslave your kids, subvert your government, and dominate your free will, he'll look damn good while he does it.  That man's got STYLE. *




Yeah. Bane can kill anyone he wants!!!! Bane cuts off heads all the time and doesn't even think twice about it.

Also, Bane is a mammal.



Hong "loves Bane with all of his body (including his pee pee)" Ooi


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## National Acrobat (Sep 13, 2002)

Acerak gets my vote. Look at how many people have died just trying to find his souls sucking skull full o' purty gems!


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## The Serge (Sep 13, 2002)

Some of you guys have _really_ gone old school, so old school that I don't even know who you're talking about!

And *Nightfall*, this Blackguard you mention...  Who is he?


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## Xarlen (Sep 13, 2002)

hong said:
			
		

> *Yeah. Bane can kill anyone he wants!!!! Bane cuts off heads all the time and doesn't even think twice about it.
> 
> Also, Bane is a mammal.
> 
> Hong "loves Bane with all of his body (including his pee pee)" Ooi *




Once more, Hong, you disturb me. With style.


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## Undead Pete (Sep 13, 2002)

I'm just going with Vecna for personal reasons.  He put the boot to my @$$ multiple times in _Vecna Lives_ a few years back.

My favorite character, was never the same.


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## radferth (Sep 13, 2002)

BTW, my vote for least cool (and oldest) classic BBEG goes to....
Asperdies (sp?).
As only the truly decrepit among us are likely to remember, he is lich that appears in the middle of old module D1 with no background and for no reason.


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## WombleHunter (Sep 13, 2002)

hong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yeah. Bane can kill anyone he wants!!!! Bane cuts off heads all the time and doesn't even think twice about it.
> 
> ...




Yes. Bane is cool. And by cool, I mean totally sweet. Bane fights ALL the time.


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## WombleHunter (Sep 13, 2002)

hong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yeah. Bane can kill anyone he wants!!!! Bane cuts off heads all the time and doesn't even think twice about it.
> 
> ...




Yes. Bane is cool. And by cool, I mean totally sweet. Bane fights ALL the time.


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## jmucchiello (Sep 13, 2002)

Leopold said:
			
		

> *Tharzdun..he's a greater god for pete's sake. He can turn your brain to tapioca pudding and then enslave you. Hell he made Zugotmy, IUZ, and Lolth his puppets.*



Bah! Acererak is the only logical choice. What other villain arranges it so that when you do battle with him you are either naked or of the opposite gender then when you started (or both). Killing people is easy. Forcing the do-gooders to battle in the nude takes panache.


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## johnsemlak (Sep 13, 2002)

I'd like to throw the Master of the Desert Nomads villian, Hosadus, from X4, 5 and X10.

His X5 stats weren't all that awesome, but it was a module for mid level charaters.  Still, I thought it was a creative module and an interesting enemy.

I'm not sure I'd pick Hosadus over classics like Vecna, Lloth, or Tiamat (I've narrowed my vote to those three, I think), but The Master is worth of consideration, IMO.


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## johnsemlak (Sep 13, 2002)

*sorry anowack*

Oops

I didn't see that anowack had previously mentioned Hosadus.  Sorry


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## Angelsboi (Sep 13, 2002)

I voted Other - Elminster


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## Falcmir (Sep 13, 2002)

Come on it has to be Vecna!!!  He's like missing an eye and a hand man, that's just nasty, and like the sword guy betrayed him or something that rocks!!!!!


(Quotes from me and my gaming group circa 1985)


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## Nightfall (Sep 13, 2002)

The Serge said:
			
		

> *And Nightfall, this Blackguard you mention...  Who is he? *




Duke Travik. He's the ruler of Lageni, a country that's apart of the Calastian Hegemony. He's a Aristocrat 5/Ranger 5/Blackguard 10.
He is the Favored of Chardun, thus granting him fallen paladin levels to add to his blackguard power even though he's never BEEN a paladin.


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## Zog (Sep 13, 2002)

Horray for Bargle and The Master of the Nomads!

Ah, now that is classic!


3e really needs someone like Bargle - A villian who exists, is encountered, and most likely makes their escape to be used again at the DM disgression.

Although, for the record, I rolled a 19 on my save, and slew Bargle.    Now if only I could remember the name I gave that fighter....


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## Tratyn Runewind (Sep 14, 2002)

Hi again!



> Posted by radferth:
> *BTW, my vote for least cool (and oldest) classic BBEG goes to....
> Asperdies (sp?).
> As only the truly decrepit among us are likely to remember, he is lich that appears in the middle of old module D1 with no background and for no reason.*




At the risk of displaying my decrepitude...  

That would be Asberdies.  And yes, no explanation of his presence is given in the module.  On the other hand, to paraphrase the old joke:

Q:  Where does a 20th-level lich hang out?

A:  Anywhere he wants...

I doubt any of the low-rent drow flunkies or kuo-toa cultists in the module would care to start up the eviction proceedings on him.  

And here's another one I should have thought of earlier - not world-specific, though I suppose she goes to Greyhawk more or less out of default for the time of her first D&D appearance:

Baba Yaga, she of the Dancing Hut.  As I've mentioned before, I became _truly_ impressed with her when her write-up (in the _Dragon_ module) pointed out that she never bothered using calling diagrams when summoning infernal creatures, because they all knew her by sight and wouldn't dare cross her...   

She'd also go nicely into the backwoods of Karameikos or Boldavia in Mystara, or the wilds of the Vos lands in Birthright.

So, there's one more villainous hat into the ring...


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## johnsemlak (Sep 14, 2002)

*Bargle*

Which modules/accesories was Bargle of the Black Eagle Barony featured in?


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## anowack (Sep 14, 2002)

*Re: Bargle*



			
				johnsemlak said:
			
		

> *Which modules/accesories was Bargle of the Black Eagle Barony featured in? *




A most likely incomplete and partially incorrect list list:

The original "red box" Basic D&D (not sure, I don't have this)
Gazeteer 1: Grand Duchy of Karameikos
The Poor Wizard's Almanacs & Joshuan's Almanac
a little bit in the Wrath of the Immortals box set, IIRC
The Karameikos: Kingdom of Adventure boxset
possibly, the Glantri: Kingdom (sic) of Magic boxset, as I seem to recall him becoming active in that area

I also believe he may be mentioned in module X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield, but that this was retconned to be his descendant when the module's date was pushed to 1200 AC.


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## Tratyn Runewind (Sep 15, 2002)

Hello again!



> Posted by anowack:
> *A most likely incomplete and partially incorrect list list:
> 
> The original "red box" Basic D&D (not sure, I don't have this)*




Actually, this wasn't the _original_ "red box" Basic set (with Erol Otus cover art, and Morgan Ironwolf as its sample "iconic" character), but the later "red box" version with the same logo as the Companion and Masters sets.



> Posted by anowack:
> *Gazeteer 1: Grand Duchy of Karameikos
> The Poor Wizard's Almanacs & Joshuan's Almanac
> *[snip]*
> ...




Karameikos was Bargle's stomping grounds for most of his career.  These materials are where you'll find most of the info on him.  The _Karameikos:  Kingdom of Adventure_ boxed set is a relic of the ill-advised attempt to turn Mystara into yet another 2e campaign world, and is a basically a rewrite of GAZ1, updated to reflect post-_Wrath of the Immortals_ continuity, and packaged with an exceedingly lame CD-supported adventure that served as an excuse to vastly overprice the thing.



> Posted by anowack:
> *a little bit in the Wrath of the Immortals box set, IIRC*




No, can't seem to find anything about him in there.  He's not in the Immortals rulebook section, and none of the adventure parts are set in Karameikos, nor is he mentioned in the campaign timeline.



> Posted by anowack:
> *possibly, the Glantri: Kingdom (sic) of Magic boxset, as I seem to recall him becoming active in that area*




I think you're thinking of Ludwig.  He was supposedly an advisor to Prince Kol at one point after his flight from Karameikos.  I don't believe Bargle was there at all (he's avoiding Ludwig these days ).  This boxed set, like the one for Karameikos, is a 2e rewrite of the Glantri Gazetteer (GAZ3), with another CD adventure within.  It's even worse than the Karameikos one, as Glantri had far more high-level characters who had to be cruelly truncated to fit within 2e's 20-level limit in its core rules.



> Posted by anowack:
> *I also believe he may be mentioned in module X10: Red Arrow, Black Shield, but that this was retconned to be his descendant when the module's date was pushed to 1200 AC.*




Yes, there are full stat-blocks for both Bargle and Ludwig given in the module, for the characters' dealings in Karameikos (Bargle is 15th level at the time).  Note that the module was re-retconned in _Wrath of the Immortals_ and put back into the current timeline, with the current characters.

Hope that helps, and welcome to the boards, anowack (always nice to see another Mystara fan around the place)!


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## anowack (Sep 15, 2002)

Tratyn Runewind said:
			
		

> *Actually, this wasn't the original "red box" Basic set (with Erol Otus cover art, and Morgan Ironwolf as its sample "iconic" character), but the later "red box" version with the same logo as the Companion and Masters sets.*




I stand corrected.  All those editions tend to run together, since the only one of the box sets I have is the gold Immortals one.



> *
> No, can't seem to find anything about him in there.  He's not in the Immortals rulebook section, and none of the adventure parts are set in Karameikos, nor is he mentioned in the campaign timeline.*




Hmm.  I'd thoguht there would have been _something_ about him and Ludwig in the Karameikos Declares Independance event(s), but I guess I was wrong.  Shows I need to re-read my stuff again.    





> *It's even worse than the Karameikos one, as Glantri had far more high-level characters who had to be cruelly truncated to fit within 2e's 20-level limit in its core rules.*




I always actually thought the Glantri one was slightly more worthwhile, if only because Gaz3 is impossible to find.  (Note to self: Check and see whether its been released as an ESD)




> *Hope that helps, and welcome to the boards, anowack (always nice to see another Mystara fan around the place)!   *




I've actually been lurking around the boards since way back before 3e was released, but I'll accept your welcome in the spirit it was offered.   

And it always is nice to meet another Mystara fan.  There just aren't enough of us.


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## Paradox (Sep 15, 2002)

Voted for Bargle!


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## Janos Audron (Sep 15, 2002)

Shar, the true evil goddess.


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## Holy Bovine (Sep 15, 2002)

Baba Yaga's got my write in vote for most hideously evil creature in literature but since we're talking classic D&D....

Tiamat was always my personal favourite (I love dragons and a 5-headed dragon/demigoddess is at least 5 times as good!) but in my early days of playing D&D I only ever got to face off with Lolth in Q1 Queen of the Demonweb Pits (we kicked her around until the Handmaidens showed up  ).  That was my 'classic' moment of D&D villianry (I guess i am too 'old skool' even for Bargle as I don't remember him at all!).  So another vote for Lolth with Tiamat a very close second for me.




Oh and Venger was a great villian trapped in a silly cartoon show.


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## Dimenhydrinate (Sep 15, 2002)

*Voted Other*

Lord Soth. Hands down for me.


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