# The Rod of Seven Parts:  Kauai Team OOC



## CanadienneBacon

Kauai Team RG

The Rod of Seven Parts: Kauai Team is:

Ambrus--Maelicent, the Gudwulf--Goblin Ranger
Mista Collins--Chev Baldwin--Human Cleric of Narn
SlagMortar--Brakkus Erikson--Human Fighter 
Strahd_Von_Zarovich--Gamad--Dwarf Transmuter
Voadam--Voadam the Green Wizard--Human Ranger
Argent Silvermage--Pilgrim--Kobold Paladin of Bahamut
BRP2--H. Lewit--Human Rogue
Rino--Dter Spiritbreaker--Dwarf Cleric


Campaign Information:
[sblock]This game will model itself off the 2nd edition boxed set adventure, The Rod of Seven Parts.  The original adventure calls for 5-7 PCs of 11th level.  I am retrofitting the original adventure to accomodate 5-7 PCs of 1st level, and am additionally changing the setting from Forgotten Realms to my homebrew, Edaesmyd.  

Ability Scores:  32 point buy
Alignment:  Any, but be prepared to play well with others.
HP:  Max HP at 1st level
Starting Level:  1st
Gold:  Max gold at 1st level
Sourcebooks: PHB v3.5, DMG v3.5, MM v3.5, Draconomicon.
Posting Etiquette:  DM will post M-F.  Weekends off.  Players should be prepared to post 1/day on a M-F basis.  Please drop a line in the OOC if you will miss more than a week.

DM does all dice rolling.  No penalty for multi-classing.  LA races from MM v3.5 available with the understanding that the PC will not attain character levels until the XP difference is met.  DM preference is still for PHB races.  Please include at least some character background in your submission, along with the basics of who your character is, and a few basic stats (ability scores, weapon of choice, a rough estimate AC, feats, skills, languages, spells).  

Adventure Synopsis:
[sblock]The party members will know one another slightly before play begins.  In the city of Teggest, the PCs have gainful employment or are regulars at a local festhall and gambling establishment called the Golden Cockatrice.  The PCs may either have been simple hires by the salon to protect against cheating at the gambling tables, or may be covert representatives of another organization within Teggest sent to spy on someone or something within the Cockatrice, or may simply be regular patrons of the festhall.  I leave the how and why of your character's presence at the festhall to you.  Regardless of affiliation, however, the characters will all have known one another for six months.  

The Golden Cockatrice is a posh salon and bar that caters to adventurers, rakes, and other pleasure seekers with plenty of money to spend.  The hall stands on a busy thoroughfare, and other businesses line the street.  A cheap inn, The Wilted Rose, is directly across the byway to the north of the Golden Cockatrice.  The salon opens for business in the late afternoon and closes after dawn, nine days a week.  Fraternal twins Frane and Vaja tend bar at the salon.  Frane and Vaja share golden hair, bright blue eyes, and muscular builds.  Vaja is a little shorter than her brother, Frane, but otherwise both twins look alike.  Both are attractive humans, slow to anger, and quick to laugh.  One of the salon's chief attractions is the covered well and the cockatrice coop.  The well is a cylinder of cunningly laid stones about three feet high topped with a windlass and a slate roof.  Flecks of mica in the stones make even the palest beam of light break up in a spray of motes that dance and dazzle the eye.  The coop is a weighty structure of thick timbers reinforced with wrought iron.  Four bad-tempered cockatrices live inside.  The cockatrices are the festhall's mascots, and the management and regulars do not look kindly on visitors who harass them.  An incredibly lifelike statue of a jolly looking man stands next to the coop.  The figure is hunched over and has one finger stuck through the coop's bars.  Legend has it that the man was a drunken patron who took a dare and poked a finger in the coop.  The hall's owners are said to have left him there as a warning and willingly paid a fine to the city authorities for the right to do so.[/sblock]

Human and Demi-Human Pantheon:
[sblock]*Errol*, The Sun God, Errol the Unerring, Errol Redblade. LG and paladin-like in his attributes. His favored weapon is the longsword. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any sword. Ethos: Defend the weak, commit no evil act, and obey the church hierarchy. Priest title: Eye of the Sun. Domains: Good, Law, Sun, War. Errol's archenemy is The God of Death, Reven. Errol is an Elder God.
Holy Servants:
¤Hyperion, the Morning Star, Herald of the Sun. Also called the Star of Intercession.
¤The Daedalion, Bringer of Justice. Founder of the Order of Icarus. 

*Madriel*, The All-Mother, Well-Mother, Mother Springstaff. NG and cleric-like in her attributes. Her favored weapon is the staff. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus net. Ethos: Must be of good alignment, and use lethal force only as a last resort. Priest title: Brother/Sister. Domains: Good, Healing, Protection, Water. The All-Mother, as the mother-creator of all living beings, is deeply saddened by the addition of death to her creation but is aware that life is made more precious by death and thus holds no animosity toward Tinuviel. Madriel is an Elder God.

*Tinuviel*, The Lady of Vengeance, Fionna Tinuviel, The Lady of Death. CN and her favored weapon is the dagger. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus scourge, whip, blowgun. Ethos: Vengeance. Title: None. Domains: Chaos, Death, Destruction, Strength. In the Golden Age, before all living creatures became mortal, Fionna Tinuviel loved a human. When the human spurned her love, Fionna was filled with the wrath of rejection and she killed him, thus setting the precedent for death and making all living creatures mortal, save her own kindred. The Lady of Pain is worshipped by any who seek vengeance for justice undone. The Lady of Vengeance is an Elder God.

*Drendd*, The Father of Stone. LG and his favored weapon is the warhammer. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any bludgeoning weapon, any axe. Ethos: Protect, Defend the faithful, Serve. Title: Pillar. Domains: Earth, Healing, Law, Protection. Traditionally a deity of the dwarves. The Father of Stone is an Elder God.

*Narn*, The Father of Battle, Narn U'Drendd. LN and his favored weapon is the battleaxe. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any slashing. Ethos: Worshippers must always be at the forefront of battle. Title: Pardoner. Domains: Destruction, Earth, Strength, War. Narn is traditionally a deity of the dwarves. The Father of Battle is the son of the Father of Stone and the two do not always get along. The Father of Battle's power is increasing as the Father of Stone's power wanes. Because death via combat is valorous and desired, even for priests, the Father of Battle does not bestow to his followers the ability to return the dead to life. Likewise, because it is a sin to waste the glorious gift of strength of arms, Narn's priests are bestowed with exceptional healing power. Because they are known to pardon the sins of those they about to slay in battle, Narn's faithful are called Pardoners.

*The Tinker*, Ungel Dingledirk, Unk, Dirk. CN and his favored weapon is the dart. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions (with dart, dagger, club being oft used). Ethos: Knowledge is the key to molding the future. Title: None. Domains: Knowledge, Luck, Trickery. Unk, as he is affectionately called by his faithful, is known to walk the realm in a under the guise of a random physical manifestation, bestowing his divine attention to unknowing earthly recipients. Those who suffer a less than favorable outcome of his meddling ways refer to The Tinker as Dirk. The Tinker is traditionally worshipped by gnomes and also lately by some mages, even humans. 

*The Traveler*, Mattias Allbringer, The Wandering Hearthstone. CG and his favored weapon is the staff. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any bludgeoning. Ethos: Discovery, attainable only by wandering, is the key to life everlasting. Title: Wayfayer. Domains: Air, Good, Protection, Travel. Many bards worship the Traveler. Fatherless sons are often given the name Mattias to reflect their bastard status. The Traveler is an Elder God.

*The Luckmaiden*, Freya, Freya Silverbraid. CG and her favored weapon is the Handaxe/Throwing axe. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus handaxe, throwing axe, spear, javelin, shortspear, crossbows (including hand crossbow). Ethos: None. An ethos would be too constraining for the notoriously free spirit of the Luckmaiden. Title: Brother/Sister. Domains: Chaos, Good, Luck, War. The Luckmaiden was once mortal; as such, one of her aliases is her mortal name, Freya Silverbraid. The Luckmaiden is often worshipped by dwarves, though many of her devout include halflings and humans. Freya is said to be the nightsky moon; she turns her watchful eye upon the realm each night, that she might both watch over and be amused by the antics of those in the throes of living. 

*Lodi the Axeless*, Laduguer. NE and his favored weapon is the shield. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus shield. Ethos: Secrecy and knowledge are the protection of those who would wield power. Title: None. Domains: Knowledge, Magic, Protection, Trickery. Lodi is traditionally worshipped by evil dwarves, evil gnomes, and humans. Lodi's interest in magic made him at odds with his brother, The Father of Stone, who threw Lodi out of the Great Hall. Lodi is now a recluse and hides from his followers, save a faithful few. Lodi's inherent mistrust and shroud of secrecy are possibly the reasons why his priests are rumored not to exist. Lodi is oft mocked by worshippers of Drendd and Narn, who refer to this renegade deity as Lodi the Axeless. Lodi is an Elder God.

*Welafleur*, Veylar, The God of Numbers. N and his favored weapon is the crossbow. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any crossbow (including hand crossbow). Ethos: A hoarder of wealth and influence, Welafleur imparts a love of money and a yearning for personal power and a strong network of contacts to his faithful. The faithful of Welafleur strive at all times to better the position of their church. Title: Master/Mistress or Dominar, if a ranking priest. Domains: Luck, Protection, Travel, Water. Welafleur is traditionally worshipped by dwarves, merchants, thieves, and sometimes travelers. 

*Galarn*, The Winged Son, Galarn Tinuviel do Errol. CG and his favored weapon is the longbow. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus shortbow, composite shortbow, longbow, composite longbow. Ethos: The preservation of all life, whether sentient or otherwise, is paramount. Title: Silve/Silva. Domains: Animal, Healing, Plant, Sun. The Winged Son is traditionally worshipped by elves, halflings, some gnomes, and druids. The Winged Son is the child of The Triune Goddess and The Sun God, Errol. Because The Winged Son desires to preserve life, he is often at odds with his half-sister, The Death Maiden.

*The Triune*, The Triune Goddess, Ilesere Tinuviel do Drendd. N and her favored weapon is the staff. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any bludgeoning. Ethos: Balance above all. Title: Abbess, Abbot. Domains: Healing, Knowledge, Magic, Protection. The Triune Goddess keeps the balance of the world. She also adjucates squabbles between The Winged Son, The Death Maiden, The Sun God, and The Death God, as well as between her father, Drendd, and her half-brother, Narn U'Drendd.

*Xylla*, The Death Maiden, Xylla Tinuviel do Reven. N and her favored weapon is the longbow. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus shortbow, composite shortbow, longbow, composite longbow. Ethos: Man before nature. Title: Brother/Sister. Domains: Death, Healing, Knowledge, Travel. The Death Maiden is the child of The Triune Goddess and The Death God, Reven. The most beautiful of all the pantheon, Xylla was born at the exact moment that Tinuviel took the first human life and ended it. This momentous event forever tainted Xylla, who now enjoys reaping the souls of the realm when their time has come to leave life. Xylla has thus long been at odds with her half-brother, The Winged Son.

*Reven*, The Death God, The Dark Father. CE and his favored weapon is the sickle. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus sickle, whip, scourge. Ethos: The destruction of the civilized world via chaos unfettered. Title: Eye of Death. Domains: Death, Destruction, Fire, War. Reven's arch-enemy is The Sun God, Errol. Reven is an Elder God.

*The Trickster*, Steckirrt Broadbarrel, Steck. N and her favored weapon is the sling. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any bludgeoning. Ethos: Enlightenment through humility. Priests of the Trickster are renowned for their ability joke and will go to elaborate lengths to trick others into seeing their point of view. The Trickster delights in laughing at both herself, her priests, and others. She is otherwise known as the Laughing God. Title: Yogi. Domains: Animal, Earth, Knowledge, Trickery. The Trickster is traditionally worshipped by gnomes and halflings. The Trickster is an Elder God.

*Othar*, Othar Feralan, The Earthcaller, The Rainmaker. NG and his favored weapon is the pick. Weapons allowed: PHB cleric restrictions plus any bludgeoning. Ethos: The protection of nature. Title: None. Domains: Animal, Earth, Plant, Water. An enemy of modernism, progress, and war, The Earthcaller formed the rock and sea of the realm. Though Othar would have it otherwise, farmers frequently pray to Othar Feralan that he might bestow rain upon their crops. Disappointed with his creation, Othar has retreated to his beloved woods, maintaining contact only with his sister, the All-Mother. Beyond even the machinations of war, Othar despises all things undead for the abomination of life that they are. The Earthcaller is traditionally worshipped by Halflings, Gnomes, and druids. The Earthcaller is an Elder God. [/sblock]

Dragon Pantheon:
[sblock]As a campaign setting, Edaesmyd features a cyclic pattern throughout the aeons of history in which dragons yield power to men and men to dragons.  The why of this turning of ages is a mystery to men.  The current age, filled with the strife of war and on the cusp of a Turning, will see the downfall of man and the rise of dragons.  Players may elect to draw from the draconic pantheon as detailed in the Draconomicon.  Please be forewarned, however, that while the Age of Men is a dying age, men and demi-humans are still firmly entrenched in power.  PCs who openly worship from the draconic pantheon will encounter bias.  Moreover, there are no open temples offering services dedicated to any deity within the draconic pantheon.  That said, I truly do welcome players to use the Draconomicon and the draconic pantheon.  I'd love to see it in play and it's my contention that the inclusion of some of this material from a PC perspective might make for very intriguing interaction.  Contact me via e-mail if you don't have access to the Draconomicon but are interested in details.  The material is copyrighted so I won't post it in public in full but I'd be happy to discuss it in private.  A very cursory list of available deities, most of them straight from the Draconomicon but a few of them stolen and edited by my hand from other sources (Deities and Demigods and the FRCS not the least of which) includes:

Aasterinian, CN, Domains:  Chaos, Dragon, Luck, Weather, Trickery, Charm, Artifice.
Astilabor, N, Domains:  Dragon, Protection, Wealth, Cavern, Metal, Illusion.
Bahamut, LG, Domains:  Air, Dragon, Good, Luck, Protection, Nobility, Storm.
Chronepsis, N, Domains:  Death, Dragon, Knowledge, Fate, Mentalism, Time.
Falazure, NE, Domains:  Death, Dragon, Evil, Darkness, Undeath, Madness.
Garyx, CE, Domains:  Chaos, Destruction, Dragon, Evil, Fire, Renewal
Hlal, CG, Domains:  Chaos, Dragon, Good, Trickery, Rune, Liberation.
Io, N, Domains:  Dragon, Knowledge, Magic, Strength, Travel, Wealth, Spell.
Lendys, LN, Domains:  Destruction, Dragon, Law, Protection, Retribution, Nobility.
Tamara, NG, Domains:  Dragon, Good, Healing, Strength, Sun, Family, Community.
Tiamat, LE, Domains:  Destruction, Dragon, Evil, Greed, Scalykind, Tyranny, Suffering.
[/sblock]

Languages:
[sblock]In addition to the standard PHB languages, the homebrew setting offers the following tongues:  
Gaelic (sea language, commerce, trade, sailors, the Isles)
Hellenic (barbarians and oral tradition)
Latin (clergy)
Runic (an elder language, similar to draconic, oft used by druids)
Gallancais (spoken on the Continent--south of the major isle of Edaesmyd--and roughly equivelent to French)
Navarran (spoken on the Continent--south of the major isle of Edaesmyd--and roughly equivalent to Spanish)
Nordic (old common, akin to anglo-saxon/old english)[/sblock]

Calendar:
[sblock]After the end of the Twenyahrs War, a new calendar was begun. The current year of reckoning in Teggest is 62 AV. Sixty-two years "after victory." Most of the written records and logs before victory were burnt during the war and the sieges on the major cities of Gorles, Daroln, and Teggest. Such records are rare and are considered gems of information by not only the realm's beaurocrats but also by those who covet hidden or lost knowledge.

*Winter*
Illot
Ladot
Freyot
Tinuvot

*Spring*
Madrot
Veylot
Narot
Othot

*Summer*
Hearot
Steot
Errot
Revot

*Autumn*
Galarot
Drendot
Unkot
Xylot

There are nine days to a week: Erroday, Madraday, Tinuday, Drendday, Hearthday, Laduday, Revoday, Steckday, and Othoday. There are three weeks to a month. Months follow a lunar cycle, the waxing and waning of the moon.[/sblock]

History:
[sblock]There are 12 kingdoms on the major isle of Edaesmyd.  The main noble House and racial or cultural make-up of each realm is indicated in parenthesis behind the kingdom name: Arrund (Aupert, human), Edaesmyd (Edain, human), Bourdesmyd (Bourdain, human), Marrund (Marne for humans and Orebiter for dwarves), Isle Jorunne (Jorn, human), Gwyund (Guin, primarily human and orc barbarian tribes), Orrund (Orff, druids), Taesmyd (Tespern, human), Loend (Loene, halfling), Thyund (Thaine, halfling), and Barrund (Blunde, human, and a nameless gnomish underground), Thierna (Telandil, elf). 

Arrund is an arid region of rolling plains to the south of Edaesmyd and aspires to conquer her neighbors. To this end, Arrund and Edaesmyd fought a war which lasted 19 years, the Twenyahrs War, and ended 62 years ago. At the war’s end, Edaesmyd won a final victory on the Westnoch Plain outside the city of Teggest’s West Bar. The victory ended the Arrundian siege of Teggest and sent Edaesmyd’s rival home to Arrund. When a peace was worked out to the satisfaction of all parties involved, Edaesmyd retained not only her own lands but also encroached a day’s march south, some 20 miles, into what had previously been Arrundian territory. Additionally, the Arrundian king was forced to send his second son to the capital city of Edaesmyd, Teggest, as captive and proof of his future peaceful intent toward Edaesmyd. Though House Edain also sent a member of the royal household, they sent only their first daughter. The terms of the peace thus heavily favoring Edaesmyd, Arrund took slight to the accord and there has been lingering tension between the two nations since the treaty was signed 62 years ago. A second source of contention has been the renaming and renumbering of the realm’s common calendar. In particular, the term “After Victory” seems to Arrund to be a gross slight.

The bully kingdom of the North is Gwyund, who unsuccessfully tried three generations ago to invade her southern neighbor, Orrund. Only the treacherous and rocky highlands of Orrund’s northern border saved her from Gwyundian conquer. In what has become legend, the Gwyund army recklessly attempted a winter crossing of the mountains between Gwyund and Orrund after Edaesmyd refused King Guin’s army passage into Orrund from the north and east. The Gwyundian army foundered in the hillocks of the narrow valley between the North and South forks of the Isenford River and, having no other recourse, fed upon their own dead in order to survive. Though none now remain to tell this tale, the story has been passed down via oral tradition from the mouths of the 200 men who survived the fell winter of 1316 B.V. (before victory). Gwyund now eyes Isle Jorunne as its next conquest and has busily been fortifying her seaward keeps, that she might soon wage war on House Jorn. 

Edaesmyd itself is the crown jewel of the area; the entire isle takes its name after House Edain and the kingdom of Edaesmyd. Bordered on the west by River Eddyrn and on the east by River Tegyrn, Edaesmyd enjoyed fertile soil, bountiful forests, and seems the bosom of the world. A peaceful realm, Edaesmyd has no designs on expanding her borders yet is know for her folks’ ferocity when the cry for defense is raised. Fortified citadels run the north-south length of River Eddyrn, testament to a war ages past and now long forgotten, waged against the old Kingdom of Phyund. When Phyund suffered defeat at the hands of House Edain, King Phylund saw his family killed and his kingdom cut into modern-day Taesmyd, Thyund, and Barrund. 

Loeund is a quiet, backwoods area seldom bothered by any and largely left out of the feuding and politics of the region. Loeund, because of its many extensive and hidden inlets and coves, enjoys a sea economy unrivaled by any other kingdom in the region. As the area is known for its fog and chill, damp weather, few travel to Loeund, but this is to the liking of its ruler and folk.

Bourdesmyd and Edaesmyd are staunch allies and have long been intermarried. Bourdesmyd, on its central border along River Tegyrn, grows red grapes and is famed throughout the region for its fine wines. Bourdainian folk are oft ridiculed throughout the region for their thick accents and foppish attire.

Marrund, on the extreme northern border of this portion of the realm, is a kingdom of mountainous terrain heavily settled by those who love stone: dwarves and gnomes. Long known for its craft of arms, armor, and jewelry, ships leave Marrund’s southernmost port loaded with Marrundian commodity and sail a short journey around the Bourdesmyd Horn into the deep bay that separates Bourdesmyd from Gwyund. Marrundian merchants see their wares loaded onto barges, which float down the length of River Tegyrn, stopping at each Citadel and town to hawk their merchandise.

Orrund, in which both the North and South Fork of the River Isenford flow, is mountainous along her northern reach, yet flat and tempid at her border by Loeund and the sea. The terrain along Orrund’s coast is a series of cliffs that drop sharply into the ocean. Orrund, like Marrund, is also famed for her ore and mining. The lodes are found to the north and south of Isenford, a coastal town held in high regard for her mining as well as Larwudu, an ancient home of druidic activity. 

The Isle of Thierna, heavily forested and thick with enchantment, is the ancestral home to elves.  Though the Isle resides a mere 50 miles off the southern coast of the realm, it is said that the way to Thierna is secret and that those uninvited never return home to tell their tale of woe.  Whether or no an elf hails as a native of Thierna, it is a prime obligation of every elf within the realm to make a pilgrimage at least once during their life to the Isle.  Lovers of the sea, Thiernan elves are master shipwrights whose craft is oft imitated but seldom faithfully reproduced.[/sblock] [/sblock]
[sblock=Citadel Teglund Key]1. Main Gate
2. Bathmere
3. West Gate
4. Citadel Teglund
5. Stone Palisade
6. Tower
7. Citadel Entry
8. Maelicent's Shanty
9. Crag
10. Mazzel and Company
11. Old Wood[/sblock]


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## CanadienneBacon

Kauai Team needs a cleric.  Please refer to the Campaign Information, particularly the Human/Demi-Human and Dragon Pantheons.  Likewise, feel free to ask questions.


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## Rino

i can draw up a cleric


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## moritheil

How important are these new languages?  Will they most likely replace other languages most of the time?  Will a cleric without Latin be shunned by his peers?  Is Gaelic more common than, say, Aquan or Sylvan?

EDIT: Ack, just remembered - no books except core and Dcn.  I'm far too used to playing with the full set, so I think it might be best if I bowed out in the creation phase rather than constantly aggravate the DM by wanting to take feats/spells that don't exist.  Feel free to not answer my queries .


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## CanadienneBacon

Rino, thank you for responding.  Please draw up a cleric.


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## BRP2

Thank you so much for letting me join. This will be my first PbP game, but itseems it's going to be simple enough. I'm rather excited, let's have a good game going.


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## CanadienneBacon

Welcome to everyone!  Go ahead and begin posting your character sheets in full in the Rogues' Gallery (RG) thread.  The original post (OP) in this thread has a link in Sandy Brown font to our RG.  It's a busy season for probably most of us, so please don't feel rushed to get your sheets up.  I trust that you'll do it when possible and am comfortable with a more leisurely pace for the moment.  I'll have a look a sheets as they come up and I invite everyone to sort of look at everyone else's sheets too--more eyes the better.


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## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, I need you to please consider changing Maelicent's alignment to at least N instead of NE so that Pilgrim will tolerate Maelicent's presence.  Let me know if this is impossible for you.


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## Ambrus

BC, I could change Maelicent's alignment, but why not just switch the two ranger characters between the two parties as I suggested? That way both groups get there own wacky-short-militant-monstrous-player-character! Share the love!


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## CanadienneBacon

Naw, I'm sticking to keeping Baliss with Lanai.  I like the racial make-up and content of that team as is, much the way I like your team just as is.  I do understand, though, if you don't feel like changing alignment.  I'd like very much to work this out interparty if possible.  

Thanks.


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## Ambrus

I'd rather not have to change Mael's alignment. He was raised in a militaristic goblin society. Having his entire tribe wiped out by merciless adventurers hasn't really helped his disposition much.


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## CanadienneBacon

I understand.  In that case, would you prefer to bow out?  Or create a different character?  I would like to see you play and am willing to finaggle the situation, interparty, to make it happen.  

Argent, at this point I'll ask you how you feel about altering Pilgrim's Paladin Code of Ethics to accomodate association with Maelicent with a NE alignment.  

A question for you, Ambrus...over time, do you envision Maelicent keeping his NE alignment tag or would he gravitate to neutrality or even to goodness?


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## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Character posted.


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## CanadienneBacon

If anyone else can part with some time today, you might consider getting your character sheet up in the RG sometime today.  I will spend time during the evening looking over stats for the sheets posted in the RG.  Since my evenings fall during the wee hours of the morning for most of you, that should give you some time to play with.


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## Voadam

CB, thanks for the offer of a spot, here is my proposed character. He's not an actual cleric but he serves a little bit in that role and I think he'd mesh well with team Kauai. This would be the third ENWorld pbp that I've gotten him into.

Eponymous character concept. 

[SBLOCK]Voadam the Green Wizard
Human Ranger 1
NG

Str 14
Dex 14
Con 14
Int 16
Wis 8
Cha 12

AC 12 (+2 dex), Touch 12, FF 10
HP 10

F +4, R +4, W -1

Attack: Heavy Mace +3 1d8+2(3)
Full attack: Heavy Mace +3 1d8+2(3)

Feats: Improved Unarmed Strike, Deflect Arrows, Track (B)

Favored Enemy Outsiders (Evil) +2
Wild Empathy +0

Skills:
Concentration +6 (4+2)
Knowledge Dungeoneering +5 (4+3)
Knowledge Geography +7 (4+3)
Knowledge Nature +7 (4+3)
Listen +3 (4-1)
Ride +6 (4+2)
Spot +3 (4-1)
Search +7 (4+3)
Survival +3 (4-1)
Swim +6 (4+2) 

Languages: Common, Orcish, Abyssal, Mongolic

Equipment
Heavy mace 12 gp 1d8+2
Black robes
Green sash
Wand of cure light wounds, with however many charges left to finish off starting wealth. (750 gp for 50 charges = 15 gp per charge).

Voadam is a large bear of a man with striking steel blue eyes, long brown hair and a full beard. Scars give evidence to a life lived hard. He wears black robes belted with a green sash. A wand is tucked into the sash and a large metal mace hangs from his other hip. 

Voadam was born to a viking culture on a world far removed from this one. He journeyed across his world as a mercenary until he encountered a banished drow noble who he got to take him on as an apprentice in the wizardly arts, later he journeyed to mongolic lands and studied under a wujen who taught him magics and the complimentary martial arts of the lotus petal style. He quested to save the unstable magic of his world but became afflicted by dimensional rifts that occasionally tore him from one place to another, sometimes from world to world. He became a sailor of the void between worlds and visited many realms. At various points he has been a merchant prince, a mercenary, a wanted outlaw, imperial adviser, and a witch/demon/vampire hunter. He has made deals with demons and fought side by side with paladins.

Most recently he was involved in opposing a necromancer named Demmin Nass the Black. Nass had captured Voadam and others and used them in a ritual to summon and bind the Aspect of a demon lord named Xiphid. Something happened with the elemental chaos of the ritual leading to a dimensional rift that freed Voadam but stole some of his recent memories. Voadam and his companions started the path to recovering their knowledge and fulfilling a prophecy to stop the demon lord’s full manifestation when Voadam’s memories stop again as he was completing a third prophesied challenge. He found himself in an alley in a strange city, his spell book and almost all of his magical power gone.

Voadam is a friendly, inquisitive, and calculating man. He has seen many things and is an experienced hunter of evil. Pragmatic, greedy, and mercenary though he may be, underneath he is a good man and can’t help himself from getting involved in the affairs of the worlds he finds himself in. He is currently interested in learning about where he is, recovering his magical powers, and rebuilding a new spellbook.

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=162326

Career path for him is six levels of wizard then eldritch knight. As a ranger he can use wands with ranger spells such as cure light wounds but for now that is the extent of his magic. [/SBLOCK]


----------



## Ambrus

I'm not certain whether Mael would ever lighten up. It would depend how's he's treated and what events transpire around him as a campaign progresses. What the party really needs is a cleric, and I can't really think of one that appeals to me at the moment. Since Mael would be stuck in Kauai with a paladin and Voadam is also proposing another ranger character I think it'd be best if I just bow out of this game.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, let me please be the first to say that I understand but am nevertheless sorry to see you bow out.  I completely understand not wanting to change a character concept, particularly since you were asked to do so _after_ selection.  Thank you for keeping your temper even after things unfolded, and good gaming to you.  You're more than welcome to join in at a later date or in another game of mine.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam, thank you for joining in.  Glad to see you.  Please go ahead and post the PC in the RG.  I'll begin vetting stats tonight (though with Voadam the Green Wizard being eponymous, I don't think it'll be likely that you'll need any correcting from me   ).

_edit:  right-o, saw after the fact that you'd gone ahead and put Voadam up in the RG.  thanks._ 

Rino said he would create a cleric for this game.  Rino, are you still around?  Let us know if something's come up and you've changed your mind about playing.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus, sorry to see you bow out as well.


----------



## Voadam

CB, I'm looking forward to this, your spider queen game was fun while it lasted.

I use the srd and don't have a PH to reference Ranger starting money, so I'm not sure how many charges the wand should have at 15 gp per charge.

I'm going to revise the RG entry to ditch the mace he had so he starts with just the wand and torn seared robes. Its not really a power build but I've played the character a long time, enjoy playing him, and I like the restart from nothing RP aspect.

I think his looking for a wizard to start rebuilding his wizarding powers can give a hook to want to connect to the dwarven transmuter.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2, by my count HL should have 52 skill points and you have spent only 48.  Also, what languages do you want for HL?  And, from the provided background, it sounds like you have set the character up to possibly take future levels in wizard.  This wasn't indicated during recruitment, so I wanted to call attention to it to make sure I correctly understand.  It's not a problem, I was just curious.  And it may affect what class levels other find themselves considering for future levels as well.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar, if Brakkus is wearing his scale mail, carrying his backpack of gear, and his tower shield, and his three weapons, his encumbrance looks to be 113 lbs.  This puts the character at medium encumbered with a movement of 20 ft, not 30.  I'm not certain which items of gear you considered when you suggested 30 ft movement.  The bit and bridle for Chopped Liver are free.  This item isn't detailed in the v3.5 PHB so from now on in this game it's included in the saddle cost.  You buy a sadle for a horse, you get the bit and bridle with it.  You had 240 gp to spend on Brakkus.  I calculate that you haven't spent nearly that and should have more leftover than what is indicated on your sheet.  I calculate that you've overspent on skill points.  Brakkus should have 20 points to spend.  Knowledge (nobility) and Listen aren't class skills for fighters and cost double.  

Let me know if you feel I have any of the above in error.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd, it's not core but I'm okay with how you arrived at Gamad's 4 Charisma by reducing the original base in order to boost another stat, but I want to make sure you understand what will happen during play with regard to such a low Charisma score.  As an albino, Gamad is going to be charged 10% extra on anything he wants to buy after character creation.  Spell components, gear, food, drink, fees, dues, the works.  He'll be shunned and not just by dwarves.  Conversely, if you don't want to stick to the 4 Charisma, then you can certainly re-arrange your stats using the original base of 8 as written in the DMG and adjust accordingly on your character sheet.  Let me know your preference.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam, thanks for the link to the other RG thread containing Voadam as a barbarian/wizard.  Gave me a pseudo window into the future with how you want to do levels in wizard then eldritch knight.  All I see for right now is that wild empathy should be +2, not +0.  Knowledge (dungeoneering) looks like it should be +7, not +5.  Mongolic isn't a language choice.  If you intend to stick to the background in the RG (not sure if that was a cut and paste job or not...), I recommend you go with Nordic from my homebrew languages.  This'd put Voadam as a native of The Continent to the south of Edaesmyd.  Will let you stew on that.


----------



## Rino

i'm still going for that cleric, but i have a question: does a shield bash automaticly count a offhand attack? even when it is your only attack that round?


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Strahd, it's not core but I'm okay with how you arrived at Gamad's 4 Charisma by reducing the original base in order to boost another stat, but I want to make sure you understand what will happen during play with regard to such a low Charisma score.  As an albino, Gamad is going to be charged 10% extra on anything he wants to buy after character creation.  Spell components, gear, food, drink, fees, dues, the works.  He'll be shunned and not just by dwarves.  Conversely, if you don't want to stick to the 4 Charisma, then you can certainly re-arrange your stats using the original base of 8 as written in the DMG and adjust accordingly on your character sheet.  Let me know your preference.




No Problem, Playing a Deformed, Albino and shunned by his own kind is a good challenge. I'll adjust the prices and drop several items he bought in the human cities.
I'll stick to the 4 charisma score and play as best as I can.
Something tells me that Eagle's splendor with change self will be a handy spells in the future.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

ARG! I just saw this thread. I was expecting CB to post a link once she started up the new tribe threads. I'll get Pilgrim up asap.
BTW.. It's too late now but If Tassy TOLD Pilgrim to accept the evil goblin that he would without asking why. I would think the infighting would be classic. 

Pilgrim: "Oh please don't kill the townsgirl. She didn't mean to scream when you asked for a fork." 

Mael: "Shut you're pie hole Kobold." /continues to puncture her lung with his stilletto.

Pilgrim: "But Tassomyr says to never kill the innocent. What do you think Gamad?


----------



## SlagMortar

Thanks for looking Brakkus over CB and sorry for the mistakes.  

I wrote his speed before I did his equipment.  Scale mail also reduces movement to 20 feet so he's definitely at 20 feet.  I broke out what his standard carrying load is and what he usually keeps on his horse.  I'll have to remember when we go into a dungeon to take the rope with me.

Thanks for the money note.  I was going with 200 for some reason.  For now I just added that back to his current cash.  

You are right on the skills.  Corrected Knowledge (Nobility) to 2 ranks.  I knew that, but I guess my fingers didn't when I was typing.    Note, I also swapped out climb for handle animal.  Maybe Brakkus can train Chop Liver into some semblance of a real mount.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Argent Silvermage said:
			
		

> ARG! I just saw this thread. I was expecting CB to post a link once she started up the new tribe threads. I'll get Pilgrim up asap.
> BTW.. It's too late now but If Tassy TOLD Pilgrim to accept the evil goblin that he would without asking why. I would think the infighting would be classic.
> 
> Pilgrim: "Oh please don't kill the townsgirl. She didn't mean to scream when you asked for a fork."
> 
> Mael: "Shut you're pie hole Kobold." /continues to puncture her lung with his stilletto.
> 
> Pilgrim: "But Tassomyr says to never kill the innocent. What do you think Gamad?



Kill the wench, she laughed at my sight.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd, during character creation, buy your gear at normal cost.  We'll apply the 10% penalty for extra low Charisma only after play starts.

Rino, are you asking because you're drawing up a cleric of Lodi?  Man, is this going to be one interesting party.  If you use a heavy shield to make an attack and that's the only "weapon" you're wielding and using that round, then it will not be counted as an off-hand weapon.  The attack will, however, cause you to lose the shield's bonus to AC until your next action (usually the next round).  Hope that helps.

SlagMortar, don't worry about the small errors.  It's part of playing most of the time.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, are you still around?  Argent missed out on this thread for a couple of days (sorry, Argent for not putting up the link you anticipated).  He's here now and says his dragon "Master" can easily instruct Pilgrim to tolerate Maelicent's presence.  Pilgrim will obey his "Master."  If you're still here, Ambrus, and this is an acceptable situation to you, then please join back in, keeping Maelicent's NE alignment tag.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've sent Ambrus a PM and an e-mail inviting him back.  He'll hopefully join back in with his NE Maelicent.  

Thank you, Argent.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Strahd, during character creation, buy your gear at normal cost.  We'll apply the 10% penalty for extra low Charisma only after play starts.



OK, I hope I'll get intimidate bonus vs. children instead.
Gamad's appearance is quite repulsive and he stutters.
Luckily you said the party know each other already … so they are used to me, unless they puke secretly when he is not around.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Gamad probably would garner a bonus to an Intimidate check if he ever tries to make one.  I'll adjudicate per the specific situation, but it's something for you to remember during play.


----------



## SlagMortar

Brakkus might puke, but he'll keep Gamad around so he can cast enlarge.    Super reach and mega tripping!


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I've sent Ambrus a PM and an e-mail inviting him back.  He'll hopefully join back in with his NE Maelicent.
> 
> Thank you, Argent.



No sweat. I'm nothing if not flexible. Pilgrim would never question Tassomyre. He would just assume the dragon wants the goblin watched over.


----------



## Voadam

I will be away Thursday December 21 through Tuesday January 2.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thank you for the head's up on your absence, Voadam.  If we can get the last two characters up in the RG (Pilgrim and the cleric that Rino has said he is making), then we can begin play.  I'm looking at a very relaxed pace until early January, at which point in time I anticipate getting into the meat of things.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

Pilgrim is almost done. I'm keeping his equipment very light so he has a "hoard" to sleep on.  

He's in the Rogues Gallery! Let the game begin!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll check Pilgrim later today.  I want to make Christmas cookies with my children this weekend, so look for the IC kick-off once we get Rino's character posted in the RG...maybe by Monday or Tuesday.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Argent, can you please include a stat block for Pilgrim's Smite Evil attack and damage?  Languages look fine.  Pilgrim is small, so his bedroll should only weigh 1.25 lbs.  The leather armor should weigh 7.5 lbs.  The buckler should weigh 2.5 lbs.  The short spear should weigh 1.5 lbs.  This should affect Pilgrim's encumbrance as you currently have it tallied, and to your favor.  Everything else looks great.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This team is ready to go once we get Rino's character up in the RG.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Argent, can you please include a stat block for Pilgrim's Smite Evil attack and damage?  Languages look fine.  Pilgrim is small, so his bedroll should only weigh 1.25 lbs.  The leather armor should weigh 7.5 lbs.  The buckler should weigh 2.5 lbs.  The short spear should weigh 1.5 lbs.  This should affect Pilgrim's encumbrance as you currently have it tallied, and to your favor.  Everything else looks great.



Done! Thanks for the heads up on the weight issue.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Gamad is ready ..
and also Hamor, his donkey


----------



## Rino

sorry, i was very busy with uni and friends. i'll build my char in a few hours


----------



## Ambrus

Hi CB. I just saw your message in the Star Wars thread. You were right; I'd missed the development here since I'd bowed out. I also didn't notice the PM you'd sent. Since I haven't received one in over a year, I just never look at that part of the page.   I don't know why I didn't receive your email.

Although I appreciate Argent's compromise of sorts, I still fail to see how Tassomyre's command would help maintain pilgrim's paladinhood. Although Tassomyre is a good leader for the kobold, it's Bahamut that grants Pilgrim's divine abilities. Not associating with evil creatures is a class requirement. If CB wants to house-rule that Bahamut has no issues with his paladins chumming around with evil people then that's her call. The platinum dragon being such a staunch opponent of evil however, I'd find it rather odd myself. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thank you for replying.  

It's more a simple matter of me (and Argent) being willing to metagame.  I'd like to see you play and am perfectly willing to "direct" Pilgrim to tolerate Maelicent's presence so that you may participate without changing what you feel is a critical element to the character you proposed. 

Think on it some, if you need, and get back to us.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Rino, I need a character sheet from you by Tuesday.  If you can't do it, no problem.  I'll check back in tomorrow and will re-open cleric recruiting if need be.  No harm, no foul.


----------



## Ambrus

CB, could you please address the outstanding questions from my previous posts?



			
				Ambrus said:
			
		

> Could you give me some clue as to what type of creatures we're likely to encounter and fight often enough in your campaign for me to bother choosing as a favored enemy?
> 
> Do you have any suggestions on where the Tribelands might be located, which gods the goblins likely worship and which languages they might know?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Are you playing, then? 

I'd be happy to.  Good subtype choices for starting favored enemies for this campaign include: giant, humanoid (orc), and outsider (chaotic).  

You may also benefit from knowing in advance that, as a DM, I enjoy running the following creatures:  vermin, undead, devils, and demons (see outsider (chaotic) above  .


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Do you have any suggestions on where the Tribelands might be located, which gods the goblins likely worship and which languages they might know?




Marrund is a mountainous region of dwarves, giants, ogres, and other cave-dwelling or temperate forest-dwelling creatures, goblins included.  Other than the obvious choices of common and goblin, which I shall leave off mentioning for this and the other regions I'll detail, a goblin from Marrund might speak dwarvish, giant, gnomish, gnoll, orcish, undercommon, draconic, or runic.  There be dragons.

Gwyund is "infested" with goblins.  Gwyund is mountains right down to the sea.  Language choices might include gaelic, dwarvish, gnomish, runic, sylvan, or giant.

Landaesmyd and Lucmyd have goblins who live as tribes on the open plains, holing up down in warrens to sleep or during the winter.  Landaesmyd offers halfling, orcish, gnoll, and terran as viable choices.  Lucmyd offers gaelic, gnoll, and terran in addition to the other two standards.

On The Continent, Maelicent might have hailed from Narnia or the Nordlands.  Language choices for both include dwarvish, runic, draconic, gnoll, undercommon, and giant.  Emphasis on dwarvish for Narnia, as that's traditionally the homeland of the dwarven deity Narn (the Father of Battle in my homebrew).

I hope these choices help.  Let me know if they don't, or if you have other questions.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Although I appreciate Argent's compromise of sorts, I still fail to see how Tassomyre's command would help maintain pilgrim's paladinhood. Although Tassomyre is a good leader for the kobold, it's Bahamut that grants Pilgrim's divine abilities. Not associating with evil creatures is a class requirement. If CB wants to house-rule that Bahamut has no issues with his paladins chumming around with evil people then that's her call. The platinum dragon being such a staunch opponent of evil however, I'd find it rather odd myself. :\



It could be that Bahamut sees something in your charactewr that even you don't see. (just a suggestion.)


----------



## Ambrus

Yes, I think I'll give the campaign a try.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I hope these choices help.  Let me know if they don't, or if you have other questions.



The choices are interesting; I imagine the Tribelands to be in some forested hilly area with access to some parts of the underdark, somewhat isolated but within raiding distance of some human settlements from which the those murderous adventurers came from. Although Ideally it also shouldn't be too far from the region where the Golden Cockatrice is located. Which most sounds like the right one?

Also, which gods do the goblins likely worship?







			
				Argent Silvermage said:
			
		

> It could be that Bahamut sees something in your charactewr that even you don't see. (just a suggestion.)



What does Mael care if some mythical lizard god has taken a liking to him?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

If you'd like to be close to Teggest, I recommend you go with the nation in the setting's heartland, Edaesmyd.  It's forested hillocks in the north that give way to plains in the south where Teggest is.  

Goblins most often worship Reven (CE God of Destruction), the Tinker (CN "Meddler"), Lodi (NE God of Secrecy--a dwarven god, but the way I play it is that every culture has their take on most of the deities...Lodi would be a goblin figure in goblin society), or Tinuviel (CN, Goddess of Vengeance).  In standard format, Reven is human, the Tinker is a gnome, Lodi is a dwarf, and Tinuviel is an elf.  Goblins would envision each quite differently; I am open to your interpretation.

As part of a more animistic, natural world, Goblins might also be inclined to be interested in dragons.  Dragons are big, fiery, fierce, scary creatures that might instill panic/worship in a goblin.  You might want to take a look at the dragon pantheon for that reason.  Dragons haven't been seen for aeons in this setting, but then again the setting is on the cusp of a Turning where dragons come back into power and men are diminished.  How funny would it be if a lowly goblin were a frontrunner to a new epoch?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Never did see a character concept from Rino, and it's Tuesday, so I'm opening this up for recruitment.  Kauai team needs a cleric.  First person to submit a viable cleric concept gets the slot.  

Feel free to fire away with any questions you might have.


----------



## Rino

i hope you give clerics free proficentie in the dieties favored wapon


Dter Spiritbreaker
male dwarven cleric 1
Experience Points: 0
Alignment: NE
Deity: Lodi the axeless
Homeland: Unknown

Height: 4'3”
Weight: 139lbs.
Hair: bald
Eyes: gray
Age: 75

Strength 14 (+2) [14 base (6 pts)]
Dexterity 12 (+1) [12 base (4 pts)]
Constitution 16 (+3) [14 base (6 pts) + 2 racial]
Intelligence 12 (+1) [12 base (4 pts)]
Wisdom 16 (+3) [16 base (10 pts) ]
Charisma 8 (-1) [10 base (2 pts) -2 racial]

Class and Racial Abilities
#  + 2 constitution / -2 charisma (already included)
# Can move 20 feet even if in heavy armor
# Darkvision (see 60 feet in pitch-dark)
# Stonecunning ( + 2 on searching stone, intuit depth)
# + 4 to avoid being bullrushed while standing on ground
# + 2 racial bonus on saves vs. poison
# + 2 racial bonus on saves vs. spells / spell-like abilities
# + 1 racial bonus to hit orcs and goblinoids
# + 4 dodge bonus on AC against giants
# + 2 racial bonus on appraise checks if stone/metal

Cleric
* Alignment Aura
* Spontaneous Casting (harm)
* Rebuke Undead (2x/day)
* domain: magic and trickery

Armour Class: 18 (10 base, +5 armour +1dex +2 shield [touch 11, flat-footed 17]
Armour Check Penalty: -7
Arcane Spell Failure: -
Hit Dice: 1d8+3
Hit Points: 11
Initiative: +1
Speed: 20f. (20 feet base)

Base Attack Bonus/Grapple: +0/+2

Weapons

+2 spiked wooden heavy shield 1d6+2 20/x2 piercing

Saves
Fortitude +5 [2 base +3 con]
Reflex +1 [0 base, +1 Dex]
Will +6 [2 base, +4 Wis]

Skills (12 points; max ranks: 4/2)
concentrate (3+3=6)
bluff	(2-1=1)
heal	(3+3=6)
knowledge (religion) (3+1=4)
knowledge (history)  (1+1=2)	

Feats
1: imp. shield bash

Languages
Common, dwarven, goblin


Equipment: total 
chain mail 150gc 
holy symbol 5gc
spiked heavy wooden shield 17gc
Explorer’s Outfit (green-brown)
backpack 2 gc:
- bed roll 1 sc 
- trail rations x15 75cc
- waterskin 1gc 
- whetstone 2cc 
- flint and steel 1gc
- potion of CLW 50gc


spells: (3;2+1)
0:
2x read magic
1x cure minor wounds

1: 
2x cure light wounds


Money:
23gc
86sc
5cc


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Rino, I was about to give your slot away but, happily, you posted the character.  The space can still be yours, so let's vet your PC real quick and get you to post him in the RG.  The feat and weapon selection are just fine for this campaign, no worries there.  When you go to type up the RG entry, if you could please edit "+2 spiked wooden heavy shield" to "spiked wooden heavy shield +2 atk,..." that would be helpful.  It'd prevent me from thinking your character has a +2 shield.   I believe your will save should go at +5, not +6...the PC has a 16 for Wisdom.  Clerics get 200 gp of max gold to start.  You've overspent.  Please let me know which item(s) you prefer to drop.  Which first level domain spell did you want to prepare?


----------



## Ambrus

Another evil character?... Things are starting to look grim for Pilgrim.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CB, Please present to me the situation that we are going to be in the first post of the IC, so I will prepare spell as desire for "Pub situation" or "Street situation" or "Falling into the sewers situation"
Thanks
Gamad the Transmuter.


----------



## SlagMortar

> Another evil character?... Things are starting to look grim for Pilgrim.



Brakkus has your back!


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Goblins would envision each quite differently; I am open to your interpretation.



Reven sounds more like an impressive force of nature than a god with a doctrine that any sane person would seek to follow. If he's popular amongst goblins I'd hazard that he's more of a powerful symbol that they've adopted to help empower themselves in battle; sort of like wearing the hides of fierce beasts to gain confidence and frighten enemies. A tribe of goblins calling themselves the "Raiders of Reven" probably only do so to strike terror in their enemies rather than to venerate a god dedicated solely to the destruction of civilization. Even raiders have a coherent society with spouses and children that they want to preserve and enrichen afterall.

Tinuviel is a spurned lover; plain and simple. Her doctrine seems too elementary to sustain the long-term faith of an entire society. She sounds more like a goddess that one would invoke when one feels angry and vengeful more than as a tribal patron.

I'm surprised that you didn't suggest Xylla as a popular goblin patron. Her doctrine of 'Man before nature' would seem to be a good fit for the selfish and opportunistic goblins. Although she plays the role of the reaper, the fact that she grants the Healing, Knowledge and Travel domains would seem to point to the fact that she's also a wise and protective deity. In that regard she seems to resemble the classic depiction of Odin as a god of the battlefield who peers beyond the veil of death and who gains wisdom in the effort.

I imagined the "God-wolf" which Mael's tribe is named after is a great mythical Fenris-like divine wolf. I'd propose that goblins imagine Reven to be a mighty wolf who thunders across the skies during storms in his unbridled fury. He isn't worshipped so much as used to symbolize the tribe's proud warrior tradition; a fierce mascot of sorts. When it comes time for spiritual leadership however, goblins look to the Gudwolf's even-tempered and thoughtful daughter Xylla. She guards the natural order, riding atop her father's back on his wild hunts, directing his fury as she sees fit while steering him away from the homes of her faithful. She favors the wise and those who show no fear of death. When goblins go into battle, she helps protect those who show wisdom in their tactics, while laying low the unworthy with her mighty bow, who are then devoured by her ravenous father. The honored dead, Xylla gathers up and carries off to the afterlife Valkyrie-like. In light of that, I may lead Mael down the path of archery rather than two-weapon fighting. Hm...

For a favored enemy, I don't really see Mael starting off with a distinct hatred for any of the creature types you listed. Perhaps I could simply start the game and later pick a favored enemy based on what transpires. What do you think?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for your thoughts on the pantheon.  I think I made mention of this at some point elsewhere (possibly in the original recruiting thread), but most creatures and cultures in my homebrew don't solely worship one deity.  Each deity has a place in the daily life of nearly everyone, except perhaps for the most evil of gods (Reven would fit this bill).  I had a look at Maelicent's alignment descriptor and, remembering that you earlier had stated your probable intent to retain said alignment, I went with E or CN suggestions for Mael.  If you want the god's honest truth, I actually think Galarn or the Luckmaiden would be a good fit for a tribe of goblins.  But Xylla would also work.  You're quite free to select any of them, truth be told.  You know your character better than anyone and know what's in his heart.  I never did like the way standard D&D prescribes just one god for each culture or monster.  It always seemed to me that that was a one-dimensional approach to life.  When I sat down to create the pantheon (and I had help), I took pains to make the pantheon familial.  Many of the gods are related to one another in husband/wife, brother/sister, or parent/offspring relationships.  

If you don't want to wield a bow, I'll modify Xylla's clerical weapon selection to include scythes, sickles, and either flail or scimitar (your choice) over the existing bow choices.  I realize Maelicent isn't a cleric, but since initially you seemed to be going for the TWF yet are attracted to Xylla, we can certainly tinker with things a bit.  The change in weapon selection would be intended to reflect the goblin culture and the manner in which you envision goblins in his tribe worshipping Xylla.  I don't at all object you going archery over TWF, though.  I just need it to be one or the other, please.  I'm willing to play with the pantheon a bit for this campaign.

I'm okay with you holding off on selecting Maelicent's favored enemy.  You'll be foregoing a bonus until you declare, so, really, it's fair.

Once again, feel free to fire away with any questions.  I'll be around off and on for another three hours or so tonight.  I have some gift wrapping to do but I'll probably be taking breaks now and then.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The IC is up and running.

Strahd, it's a pub situation to start off.  Please let me know if you need me to be more specific.


----------



## BRP2

Alright, it begins... HL is awaiting for something to happen.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Just FYI - The character name - "Gamad" is translated as a "Dwarf" in Hebrew.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. FYI, I imagine some of the drinking hall's patrons have taken to calling Maelicent either, Mal, Malice or Malicious as a joke.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Or Millicent.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Or Millicent.



I don't get it. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Millicent is a girl's name.


----------



## Ambrus

Ah. Yes. That's actually where I got the name. I changed the begining to Mael because it's a celtic name that means "chief"; my attempt to try and make the name masculine. Also, I just like the idea of a goblin named 'Malice'.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That's funny.  The first thing I thought when I saw Maelicent was Millicent.  It's a good name, though.  But I'm sure there will be some NPC jerk at some point who can't resist calling the goblin Millicent.  Or Millie.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> That's funny.  The first thing I thought when I saw Maelicent was Millicent.  It's a good name, though.  But I'm sure there will be some NPC jerk at some point who can't resist calling the goblin Millicent.  Or Millie.



I'd never heard the name Mellicent before I'd found it and so assumed it was a rather obscure or archaic name. It also sounds more like a man's name to my ears. *shrug*

Well if some NPC is so desperate to get himself shot full of arrows who am I to disapoint him?


----------



## BRP2

Where are you CanadienneBacon? ;o


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Enjoying Christmas.   I'll be back on Tuesday.


----------



## BRP2

Oh okay, I'm just waiting for your reaction. See you then.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Errand at FedEx today.  Be back to supply DM reply this afternoon, which unfortunately for at least some of you is after hours due to the time difference.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

IC has been updated.


----------



## Rino

last post by the kolold, could me chararter have heared that?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes.

Right now I am working off the assumption that, since we are all just starting out and getting to know one another both in- and out-of-game, everyone hears pretty much everything that's going on in the common room.  The only exception to this would be when I've used description to indicate that Vaja was whispering.  I rolled a listen check for each of you in that one instance but no one made it, oddly.


----------



## Ambrus

That's a shame; Maelicent's got good ears. Just in case it's not clear by my description, Mael's trying to hide and move silently through the room and is currently trying to remain unobserved beneath the bar behind the row of seated patrons while spy on Pilgrim, Vaja and the elven archer.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

There is combat in the IC.  Enjoy!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2, I don't see languages on Lewit's character sheet.  You might want to amend that.

A note to all...if you spot what you feel may be a DM error, let me know.  I'm open to the possibility of me making errors and, when I do, will gladly correct things in the IC.  All I ask is that you point out any potential errors in a civil manner.    

You all will benefit from a map.  I will have time to do up a map for you this evening.  I'm sorry it won't be sooner, but I need to head out for a while.  If you would prefer to delay posting until you see the map, that will be fine.

I'll also take this opportunity to remind everyone that I don't post on weekends most of the time.  Monday is New Year's, and so I will see all of you again in the IC on Tuesday.  But I _will_ get your map to you before the night's out, no worries.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Map's up.  I edited it into my last DM post in the IC.


----------



## SlagMortar

CB, do you have rules about PvP?  I'm not out to get Brakkus in a PvP combat, but from Brakkus' point of view, Dter just attacked one of the few people Brakkus knows is on his side.


----------



## Rino

my mistake, misread that there was a spider or something else that was attacking. so i thought frane or that other NPC was giving trouble.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Judging by his profile tag, Rino is from Holland.  Rino, do I correctly guess that you are not a native speaker of english?  Apologies if I'm mistaken in that guess, but it might be that you found something in my wording funny.  

I wondered about Dter's action when I read what you posted for him with regard to attacking either Cheal or Frane, but figuring that you knew your character best, I went with Dter attacking Frane because you'd said he'd attack whichever of the two of them was closest, and Frane was.  I also took into consideration that Dter is NE.  While I confess I wasn't sure what exactly you were up to, I allowed the attack on Frane even though I was hesitant.  Next time, if I'm hesitant, I will pop into the OOC to ask.

Regarding player vs. player combat, I don't care for it.  I said at the start that any alignment would be acceptable, and I meant it, but I also stated at the start that regardless of alignment there would need to be an emphasis on getting along and working together.  That said, your characters are your own.  I am willing to adjudicate player vs. player combat, but on a short leash and I certainly won't tolerate it over the long haul.  If _that_ sort of thing goes on, PCs will probably end up becoming NPCs.  I don't mean that rudely, but there you have it.  I'm not expecting it to become an issue, though.  You all seem very reasonable.

To rectify the situation in the IC, I can edit Dter's action so that he does not attack Frane.  We're just starting off and party cohesiveness will be important; it'd be a shame to spoil cohesiveness simply because of meta-miscommunication.  If you don't want to go the editing route, then Brakkus is free to react however he sees fit.  I'm open to any other ideas for a fix that you might have.


----------



## Rino

i can solve that IC, and NE is the perfect alignment to get away with it if i play it out the right way. 

btw, my post will normaly be pretty short and to the point


----------



## SlagMortar

That's sounds fine with me.  Dter will have some explaining to do, but Brakkus will certainly give him the chance as long as he stops attacking the 'good' guys.  Brakkus is Lawful Good so is certainly not spoiling for a fight with anyone he was sitting with peacefully a moment ago.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Well, there you go.  Seems perfectly reasonable to me.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Combat post has been continued.  I need to pause mid-round, however, to see if Brakkus, Dter, or Voadam want to re-state actions this round.  A lot has changed in the environment, so to be fair (and not really knowing what Brakkus would do given a new foe but being pretty badly wounded), I need to pause.  Map's up.  Let me know if you need more info.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

I just need to know if there are any imprompto weapons near pilgrim. Say a makeshift club or holy avenger... you know.. something ordinary.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

A chair?   :\ 

I'm laughing.  "And in this corner, we have PILGRIM!  The 60-lb-when-he's-soaking-wet-shrimp-of-a kobold!  While over there we have the FIEND OF THE ABYSS!  A hulking 800 lb spider with a maw of sharp teeth!"

Yeah, that's fair.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> A chair?   :\
> 
> I'm laughing.  "And in this corner, we have PILGRIM!  The 60-lb-when-he's-soaking-wet-shrimp-of-a kobold!  While over there we have the FIEND OF THE ABYSS!  A hulking 800 lb spider with a maw of sharp teeth!"
> 
> Yeah, that's fair.



The funny part there is you doubled Pilgrim's weight.


----------



## Ambrus

A chair in this place would probably be as big, if not bigger, than the kobold himself. That's why Maelicent thinks of them as ladder-perches.  

I think Maelicent has a better offer for Pilgrim. Looking at the map, it looks like they're adjacent to each other. Right?

CB, in your post you said that the last three PCs had yet to go, but it seems to me that both Brakkus and Dter have already acted; their attacks are what killed the first wolf-spider. I believe that Voadam is the only one to not have had an opportunity to act yet.

Either way, I've already posted my next round actions.


----------



## SlagMortar

Those were attacks of opportunity as the spider tried to move toward the wand.


----------



## Ambrus

Ah. My mistake then. Sorry.


----------



## Voadam

I'm in.   

I used the quote function for flashbacking, you think that looks alright or any suggestions on a better form to set it off from current actions and descriptions?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam, good to have you join in.  It's good that the flashback is set apart, but how you do it is up to you.  Whatever you feel works best, is easiest for you to manage, or is most obvious will be just fine.  I noticed, however, that Voadam's attack should go at unarmed attack +3, 1d3+2 for damage.  That's what is on his character sheet, not the unarmed attack +2, 1d3+4 dmg that is listed in the IC.


----------



## SlagMortar

> With a 30 foot movement at the moment, Brakkus has enough speed to double move to get to Gamad but will need to forgo an attack in favor of the double move.



I counted 30 feet to the square immediately above Gamad on the map if Brakkus moves through Dter's square, which he would try since Dter has offered to heal him and now appears to be a friend.  I just noticed the key on the map has north pointing left.  I was using north as the top of the map so when I said north east, I actually meant south east.  Staying a step back is a good choice.  I'll post Brakkus's next action.

*EDIT*:  Brakkus's location on the latest map is correct with where I wanted him to be.
*EDIT2*:  Now I saw the scale one square = 10 feet.  I was reading it as 5.  Anyone know a good map reading class?


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Voadam, good to have you join in.  It's good that the flashback is set apart, but how you do it is up to you.  Whatever you feel works best, is easiest for you to manage, or is most obvious will be just fine.  I noticed, however, that Voadam's attack should go at unarmed attack +3, 1d3+2 for damage.  That's what is on his character sheet, not the unarmed attack +2, 1d3+4 dmg that is listed in the IC.




Evil outsider favored enemy should be +2 more. If it is subtype evil that is.   

You are right that it should be +3 though, +1 BAB, with 14 strength for another +2.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> Those were attacks of opportunity as the spider tried to move toward the wand.




That's correct.  

What with the 10 foot scale, the map is a little clunky.  It could be argued that Dter's shield bash on spider 1 was in error because of his positioning on the battle map at the time, but the position of PCs on the map is a little misleading because it's hard for me to paint in two PCs in just one square.  MS Paint doesn't really allow me to finetune the font size to anything small enough to fit two names in one square.  Since I had everyone's location all straight in my mind however, this made things kosher, so I went with giving Dter the death blow.

I was being facetious with my chair comment.  Sometimes humor doesn't show on these messageboards, sorry.  Though, should Pilgrim decide to use one, a chair could become an impromptu weapon, size large for him.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> Evil outsider favored enemy should be +2 more. If it is subtype evil that is.




Ahhh, that explains it.  I'll amend damage dealt, then.  Thank you.


----------



## Voadam

I edited my rogue's gallery attack line to make this explicit.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> Brakkus's location on the latest map is correct with where I wanted him to be.




Thank goodness.  It's a minor movement difference, but that extra five feet is a fairly major in-character issue.  I mean, would Brakkus just boldly rush up to stand right beside Gamad even though it meant he (Brakkus) would be left open next round to Cheal's attacks?  Or would Brakkus play it smart, if a little safe, and stay just a touch back from Cheal?  I obviously went with the latter, primarily because your PC is already at half his HP.  I'm still getting to know everyone's character.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CB - Say, where is the coop and the well ?
Voadam - Is that German tongue ?


----------



## Voadam

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Voadam - Is that German tongue ?




I always thought German had a nice ring for abyssal and have used it in games for that purpose before.

It works well that only one player in my face to face game knows any german, and the one player with abyssal on his character's known languages is facile with a translating website.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. I've always thought that german did have a nasty sound to it. IIRC I once heard a german rock song that sounded like infernal chanting capable of invoking the prince of darkness himself, but in actuallity the lyrics were something like a simple list of ingredients for making cookies, albeit they were _evil_ cookies.


----------



## Voadam

CB, is the cook dead or does it look like there is time for a cure light wound wand application to save a life?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam, thanks for asking this in the OOC.  You'll may want to go in there and make a Heal check, but from where Voadam is standing in the kitchen doorway, it looks like the man's throat was torn out.  No more blood is flowing from the wound.

We're off init.  I just finished up a DM's reply in the IC.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2, no, I'm not using the Knowledge skills to aid in combat.  I know this cuts down on your theorem to have your character be a tactical genius, but I did say at the get-go that I was trying to stick to core rules whenever I could.


----------



## Ambrus

CB, perhaps I wasn't clear in post 32, but I'd intended Maelicent to be taking shelter beneath a table so he could snipe at enemies while remaining concealed.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The table really didn't stand a chance when pit against the large spider.  

It's supper time here.  I'll check back in here and will be glad to address concerns in two hours' time, but unfortunately until then I've got to go take care of my children, feed them supper then draw baths and tuck them in for the night.  If something is really bothering anyone about the last rounds of combat, now would be a good time to speak up.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It looks like I forgot to address the question regarding where the cockatrice coop is.  It's in the courtyard.  A bit of the courtyard got cut off during my map making endeavor.  Since no one had been interacting with the cockatrices (pl. cockatrice ?), I left off pinpointing the coop.  

The cockatrice coop:  "A low, stout enclosure made from whitewashed timbers and wrought iron bars stands in the courtyard, surrounded by a neatly trimmed edge of lawn.  There are four large fowl inside.  They look to be hens, and the cage reeks with the odor of live poultry.  The hens' long tails and wicked eyes, however, suggest something sinister.  An astonishingly lifelike statue of a drunken man poking his finger through the bars indicates that these particular fowl might be best left alone."


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Voadam said:
			
		

> I always thought German had a nice ring for abyssal and have used it in games for that purpose before.
> 
> It works well that only one player in my face to face game knows any german, and the one player with abyssal on his character's known languages is facile with a translating website.




And I'm using Hebrew as Celestial.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> The table really didn't stand a chance when pit against the large spider.



So Maelicent got pinned beneath the collapsing table rather than the wolf-spider?







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> If something is really bothering anyone about the last rounds of combat, now would be a good time to speak up.



I'm still unclear how the creature managed to strike, knock prone, disarm and pin Maelicent in a single round while also moving and taking a swipe at pilgrim.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I'm still unclear how the creature managed to strike, knock prone, disarm and pin Maelicent in a single round while also moving and taking a swipe at pilgrim.



Full attack with Eight limbs


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Full attack with Eight limbs



Can't usually full attack and move more than 5-ft; at least not with just the core rules.

Edit: I suppose it might be possible if the wolf-spider has the pounce special ability.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I think maybe you're trying to dissect it a little bit too severely.

The spider tried to jump.  When it did, it incurred an AoO for its movement.  Pilgrim hit it, causing the spider to miss its jump.  Since Pilgrim also had a readied action, he took his stated action at that time.  The spider "fell."  It fell on top of Maelicent (and the table from which he was sniping).    

In thinking about how things ought to go, it made good sense to me that if a very large and very heavy spider fell on top of you, you would probably suffer a wee bit of damage from it and you would probably also drop whatever item you were holding.  The bow is not broken.  Maelicent is dirty and suffered 1 hp of damage but is otherwise out of the mess.  Will this description satisfy every rule contained within the PHB?  I'm certain it will not.  Does it provide a possibly interesting character enrichment environment?  I'm certain it does.  Maelicent is a well-written character and I personally cooked up my computer this morning just to read his reaction to the whole mess.


----------



## Ambrus

I appreciate your fondness for the character and I can appreciate your desire to describe combat in a dynamic and creative manner, but I'd like to point out a few things. This wolf-spider accomplished more by accident in a move-equivalent action than it or its brethren did in any deliberate actions during the previous rounds. One of the wolf-spiders managed to web Pilgrim once and I believe each one bit a character once. This one managed to injure, trip, disarm and pin an opponent simultaneously during a move action. Its mishap proved to be a better tactic than most of its deliberate attacks. The wolf-spider itself, in turn, didn't seem to be terribly inconvenienced by unexpectedly falling onto a collapsing table; it managed to follow up with an attack against poor Pilgrim.

Considering Maelicent's decent AC and the wolf-spider's failure to hit an unarmored kobold, I suspect that if it had had to roll an attack roll to attempt to accomplish something similar against the goblin that it would likely have missed. Likewise, if Maelicent had been allowed a Reflex save to leap clear of the falling wolf-spider I think he'd have had a good chance of succeeding. Just as you can imagine Maelicent getting hurt and dropping his weapon when the wolf-spider fell upon him, I can imagine the goblin rolling to safety first. The rules are written as they are so neither of us gets carried away with our imaginings to the detriment of the other players' fun.

Please don't get me wrong; loosing a round of actions and a hit point isn't that big a deal (though it could have been if the wolf-spider had attacked Maelicent instead of Pilgrim or had remained alive itself). It's just that I worry when opponents accomplish more (far in excess of what would be possible if using the RAW) by mistake then with their deliberate actions. Please just think about it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I welcome your feedback, as it will help me improve future combat rounds.  I'm appreciative of the fact that without you being here to game in person at my elbow, you don't benefit from knowing what all I might be rolling behind the scenes.  Maelicent got but failed his save to move out of the way.  As for the vagaries of the dice, I am rolling by hand at home and am using what I roll to adjudicate combat.  A foe can pump up his AC to a decent level but if I roll high for a player's attack, the foe's painstaking efforts to jack up his AC won't matter worth two beans.  The same applies in reverse for foes' attacks on players; your character does have a good AC, but sometimes the foe just gets lucky.  While it's not my style to use or link to invisible castle rolls, I can work on tweaking my descriptive language to make it more evident to players when and what I am rolling.  It tooks me about 90 minutes to work up each round of combat.  I work from home and have four children milling about my house who require attention...I basically look for any way I can to shave off time from how long it takes me to provide combat posts.  I see others using invisible castle, but the extra time it takes to use that service then link to it is a killer for me.  Real, physical dice are faster and more convenient, so that's what I use.  Having players who trust their DM is critical to the success of this game, and I certainly am willing to work for yours.  I *will* sometimes fudge die rolls in increase the likelihood that things turn out a certain way.  Did I do that here?  No.  Would I ever do it even though I know it's going to utterly screw over a character?  No.  Your characters are the life of the game.  If you die, there's no game.  If players leave due to discontent, there's no game.  

Recounting the actions in the IC, I was overgenerous with movment and attacks on behalf of the party vice the monsters, and by a large margin.  I had actually been hoping that no one would realize the encounter came out tipped in your favor, because oftentimes such realizations spoil one's willing suspension of disbelief.  That you think it's the opposite (that in one instance the spider managed to disarm and damage your character) tells me that you're viewing the combat through a lens of how it affects your character.  I don't mean that rudely, but in hindsight I do see that you're definitely disappointed with my desicions and description.  The long and short of it is that the spider's attempt to jump was the cause of its rather abbreviated death.  In my opinion, the spider kinda came out on the short end of the stick on that one.

edit:  I'll be around if you want to continue hashing this out, but off and on throughout the day.  Please don't feel that I'm ignoring the situation if I don't immediately reply.  I did also want to chip in that I think the real issue here is that the players and I are establishing trust.  Counting up who got what attack, when, and where is kind of fruitless as it addresses a symptom of a problem and not the root cause of the issue at hand, which is trust.  I'll need yours if we want this game to function, and I'm willing to earn it by trying to think in the future how things look from the player perspective and seeing if I can somehow clean up description to supply you with the information you need.  I'll need for you to go with the flow a little bit so that you can see me establish a pattern of not screwing your character over.


----------



## Voadam

A rules guess on my part. Traven broke the grapple (standard action) then did a quickened cause fear on Rancid. Whether it was quicken spell like ability or a quickened spell is not something I'm sure I could tell unless he used components. Going into unarmed and unarmored melee combat with a large wolf spider thing gives me the definite impression I'm tactically in over my head.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Even without me scaling the module back from 14th to 1st level, from reading the adventure, the PCs in the Golden Cockatrice are probably supposed to come away feeling a bit overwhelmed.  That was my sense of things from having read that particular interlude, anyway.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

On the plus side of increased difficulty, however, things will be worth slightly more XP.  I figure this is good because with seven of you, you all have tended thus far to make quick work of foes but there will be less XP to go around.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> A rules guess on my part. Traven broke the grapple (standard action) then did a quickened cause fear on Rancid. Whether it was quicken spell like ability or a quickened spell is not something I'm sure I could tell unless he used components. Going into unarmed and unarmored melee combat with a large wolf spider thing gives me the definite impression I'm tactically in over my head.




We're actually off initiative.  Not sure if you saw that (if you're using stealth mode, the grey font I sometimes use might make it difficult to see some of my DM asides).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I put everyone back on init.  I initially wasn't sure how you all would chose to deal with Traven and since the spiders (the obvious threats) were dispatched, I took us off init.  Now that a second series of events has begun, we are back on initiative.  And, as you can see, I seem to have found a die that likes players, or at least their initiative rolls.


----------



## Ambrus

I don't mind you rolling dice at home; I likewise find using invisible castle more trouble than it is worth (since one can easily just keep rolling on it until they get the result they want). I can appreciate your desire to speed up the process when you post. My own responses can easily take me half an hour to over an hour to compose if they're involved and complicated. Frankly, with four young kids at home to take care of I can't imagine how you also find the time to run two PBP games with so many players in each. My hats off to you for pulling it off; it's a testament to your skill in both fields.  

I also don't mind you rolling on our behalf, it's just that without being able to see the process we're kind of left to guess what, if anything, was rolled that then lead to the results you describe.

I'm not certain that I'd agree with you when you say that I'm viewing the combat through a lens of how it affects my character. I did notice that many characters seemed to be able to cross the large crowded taproom with surprising speed. It's just that it's generally easier to address the issues that affect my character directly than it is to point out the issues that happen to benefit other people's characters. Other PCs might resent someone butting in to point out a detrimental rule-clarification IYKWIM.

I agree with you when you say that it's largely a matter of gaining the players' trust. This being our first combat together I am keeping a critical eye out for anything out of the ordinary. Please understand that seeing some PCs moving curiously faster than I'd expect while also seeing NPCs performing seemingly impossible combat manoeuvres tends to raise some red flags in my mind. Obviously players have to give the DM some leeway to describe combat in an exciting way. And certainly some people prefer a fast and loose style of play, but I'm afraid I'm not really one of them. I'll admit it; I prefer sticking closer to the rules so that I can know what to expect in combat and plan accordingly. I enjoy the tactical side of combat. I'll also admit that when I first see a DM's preferred style of play I get worried about rule-calls that seem a little arbitrary.

I'll admit that I'm likely being over-critical but it's largely due to the fact that you invited us to offer our comments and point out possible mistakes to you. Sorry if it's becoming bothersome for you. Either way, I'm not letting any objections I have slow down the game; Maelicent just keeps going with the flow of the combat as described whether I agree with what's happening or not.  

For instance, dropping and then re-rolling initiative seems rather confusing to me. Maelicent didn't intend to pause in his attack; there's always been a threatening creature worthy of his arrows in the tap-room since the combat started. Now I'm wondering if he lost the opportunity to move and fire or not during the interim. Also, he's inexplicably dropped from first to fifth place in the initiative order. To me at least, this seems like the same combat that we started with, especially since one of our opponents was still in fighting shape and planning to flee. Maybe you could ask us if we're done taking actions before you drop initiative next time. :\


----------



## Voadam

I have no need or desire to see dice rolls.

It did seem odd though to come out of combat init with the Rancid/Traven grappling still going on. I'm flexible and fine with how you run things though and prefer things to keep moving with a spot ruling from the DM rather than you stopping to consult on such issues.

As for the overwhelming demons I think we got very lucky. I was ready to run out and free the cockatrices to try to drive them into contact with the demons.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for understanding.  Things'll go smoother down the road, I'm sure.  

A quick aside, I agree in hindsight it looks funny to drop init and then pick it back up in essence what was two rounds later, but when init was dropped it was because the obvious threats were gone.  A new threat (Traven) appeared, albeit a very short time after the last threat was vanquished, and we went back on init.  I'm not sure I like the way init went either with regard to Traven, but there really was no way for me to anticipate how the party would react to circumstances once the first two spiders were gone.  It could easily have been all diplomacy and healing, in which case no init would have been needed.

This is tipping my hand more than I might like, but for future combats when the possibility of a renewed threat exists, I anticipate continuing on initiative rounds for an extra round or two just to see if init will still be needed.  Sometimes you all may react in a way that does not necessitate continued initiative, but doing it this way beats the confusion of dropping then resuming initiative in short sequence.  

I was out all of today.  Trip to the zoo, then to the pipe shop to buy a Christmas present for my husband for when he returns from sea.  Children are being prepped for bed.  I'll put up a DM post in the IC later tonight for you guys to chew on over the weekend.  Other than that, I will catch everyone on Monday.  Voadam, I did see that you'll be out of the loop until the 9th or 10th.  No sweat.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's come up the last two rounds, so I feel I need to call something to attention.  Drawing a  weapon is a move-equivalent action.  Characters can get in their base movement and attack, or they can move, but they can't move, draw a weapon, and attack.  Just trying to tighten things a bit during combat rounds, so please bear with me.  There's plenty of time for anyone who wants to do so to revise their combat actions for the current round before I post on Monday.


----------



## SlagMortar

> Drawing a weapon is a move-equivalent action. Characters can get in their base movement and attack, or they can move, but they can't move, draw a weapon, and attack.



Keep in mind that characters with +1 Base Attack Bonus can combine drawing a weapon with making a move so the fighters, rangers, and paladins can move, draw, and attack in the same round.

Regarding the second map, I would expect Brakkus and Voadam to be adjacent to Traven after they all move outside as everyone moved 60 feet.  It's important because the spider taking a _run_ action would provoke attacks of opportunity from anyone adjacent, and because of the chase mechanics of D&D, attacks of opportunity are about our only chances of actually overtaking him.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thank you for the reminder with regard to +1 BAB and move/draw.  That is a mechanic that I'm constantly reminding my tabletop players they may use but I guess I'd forgotten it over the course of the last few months since we have had no table time.  Ironic.  But thanks.  It's something that I can fix at the top of the next round (which will be Round 3) by giving those with a +1 BAB who gave chase (Voadam and Brakkus, I believe)  an AoO before I start the initiative count down.  Their AoO will be counted as damage applied to Encounter 2, Round 2.  If it means the damage drops the spider then I will immediately follow up with textual description describing the spider's death before starting the init count for Round 3.

Thanks again.


----------



## Ambrus

The creature will also loose its Dex bonus to AC while running, unless it has the Run feat however. Should make striking it a bit easier I'd imagine.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Anyone have Knowledge (local)?  

I had a look at the RG but did not see local on anyone's sheet.  If your RG sheet for this game doesn't have your PCs skills in alphabetical order, it is possible that I overlooked it.  If you feel this may be the case, let me know.


----------



## SlagMortar

> Thanks again.



No problem.  Thanks for running the game   I appreciate the realistic behavior of the enemies (fleeing when in danger, trying to get the wand rather than beating on the fleshy unarmored guys).  Of course making the behavior realistic makes it harder to model with the rules so we're all bound to overlook some things now and again.



> Anyone have Knowledge (local)?



Not Brakkus.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

My husband returns home from sea on Tuesday.  I won't be posting on Tuesday, but will be posting on Wednesday and Thursday while he squares things away at work after a long absence.  From Friday onward for an approximately two week period, posting on my end will be sporadic (maybe every other day or something like M/W/F) while we enjoy being reunited as a family.  After that, I'll be back for my regular M-F posting schedule.

And I will put up a post at some point today in the IC.  Got a lot to get done around the house before tomorrow, though, so it might be later on.  The four games I DM online get priority before any other of my online browsing, so please rest assured that you'll be high up on the list.

Ambrus and SlagMortar, I can benefit from a couple of folks who are intimately familiar with the RAW.  Rather than waste time getting upset at having discrepancies pointed out, I'd much rather put your rules knowledge to good use.  You two are thus hereby appointed the rules lawyers for this game.  In a good way.    I'm always looking for ways to shave time off my posting efforts (without sacrificing quality, though), so anything you spot about a situation, if you could please just go ahead and point it out here, I would be appreciative.  If there is something in the rules that does not jive with the module or with my story, I certainly feel comfortable rule zeroing it, but it's always nice to make an informed decision.   If you don't want to serve in this capacity, let me know.

ALL:  please ping me at [address removed by CB, if you need it, please ask]  so that I can hand out XP.  I'll leave up that email address for a 24 hour period before I take it down tomorrow.


----------



## Ambrus

I'd be happy to try and help you out rule-wise as best I can, but rest assured that I'll likely miss some things nonetheless.  

After rereading the sequence of events for the last few rounds, for Maelicent at least, time has gotten rather muddled. Assuming Maelicent freed himself in the time between encounters then two rounds of combat have passed without him doing much of anything besides chatting with Voadam.

If, on the other hand, the second encounter started on the round following the end of the first encounter then Maelicent spent that first round freeing himself. On round two he could used his turn to then walk to the edge of the bar and shoot at the third spider before it made a break for the door. It seems however that all Mael did was walk over and chat with Voadam while he, Lewit and Brakkus beat the thing to death. Kind of a missed opportunity to act.

All in all it doesn't change much anything; I'm just pointing out that Maelicent hasn't really had a turn since this second encounter began.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm here quickly before starting my day and saw this.  As far as I recall, Maelicent had to more than double move during round 2 to get to his position in the doorway.  I think he ended up moving 120 feet total that round.  The round before that, I forget what it was that occupied his time.  I'd have to go look, or you can go look.


----------



## Ambrus

Let's see, in post 68 I stated that Maelicent was going to move towards Traven and shoot. In post 78 you described the goblin's action as running across the room, ignoring his attack. It's a shame since it might very well have dispatched Traven before he ran out the door.

If Maelicent had instead taken a double-move towards the door as suggested in post 78, then on round two Maelicent could have simply taken a move action out the door and then fired at Traven; but that doesn't seem to have happened either. In essence Maelicent seems to have spent too much time moving around the place without stopping to shoot.

If you'd care to have had Maelicent doing something useful during that time I suppose it could be assumed he was searching the first two spiders' carcasses...


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Pilgrim centers himself and, drawing upon the power granted him by the divine grace of Bahamut, scans the room for the presence of evil.  Atune to the wishes of his patron, Pilgrim immediately senses the presence of evil.



Where? What who?


----------



## Ambrus

Your detect evil power only detects the *presence* of evil within a 60-ft. cone (essentially a 90º sweep) in the direction you're facing in the first round of concentration. Pilgrim will have to spend the following round concentrating to determine the number of evil auras in the room and a third round to pinpoint their locations and relative strengths; and that only in a 90º arc.

Keep in mind also that your character may simply be detecting the first two wolf-spiders' lingering auras. Considering that they were likely evil outsiders, simply having passed through the kitchen would leave a lingering aura which may persist for several minutes after they vacated the area.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

I don't mean to sound rude but I know very well how to play my character and how his abilities work. We are out of the initiative chart thus the idea of "rounds" is a non-issue. Assuming that I would like a bit more information form the Dungeon Master on this.


----------



## Ambrus

Sorry. I didn't mean to offend you.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Argent Silvermage said:
			
		

> Where? What who?




We're still on init.  Pilgrim may continue to concentrate on his _detect evil_ ability if he wants to try to discern the rest of this info...round one nets him the presence or absence of evil.  If he continues concentrating, he'll be given the number of auras and power of the most potent aura on the second round of the spell and the power and location of each aura on the third round.  I'll watch the IC to see whether you'll have Pilgrim drop the spell or continue concentrating.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> We're still on init.  Pilgrim may continue to concentrate on his _detect evil_ ability if he wants to try to discern the rest of this info...round one nets him the presence or absence of evil.  If he continues concentrating, he'll be given the number of auras and power of the most potent aura on the second round of the spell and the power and location of each aura on the third round.  I'll watch the IC to see whether you'll have Pilgrim drop the spell or continue concentrating.



Cool. Thanks for the clarification.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, because init was dropped then resumed with a two-round intermission, it looks to me that you're befuddled about whether Maelicent missed actions.  I would go so far as to say rightfully so.  We will therefore even the slate by saying that the PC spent one round extricating himself from beneath the spider and collecting his dropped weapon, and a second round casting about, searching the spider from under which he crawled.  Looking at Maelicent's RG sheet...no ranks in search and +0 Int modifier.  Goodness.  Maelicent searched the spider but, finding nothing of appreciative interest or worth, he would've continued on precisely as you and I wrote him, which was 120 feet out into the byway to chase after the fleeing spider.  More precisely, the search of the wolf spider nets Maelicent the knowledge that the beast is large in size (and boy did you all benefit from me forgetting that every time a PC moves in to attack a creature one size category larger than yourself that it's supposed to draw an AoO from the foe because of threatened squares), has a black chitinous exoskeleton, a wolf head where a normal spider's head ought to be, and really no other interesting markings of discernment.  Had it not been for the aberration's strange head and ability to speak, the spider could have been a simple large spider in any forest in the land.

With this information in hand, you may find yourself wanting to alter your post in which you state:


> OOC: I'm going to assume that Maelicent never made it past the bar since he never had reason to get closer than that to shoot the third spider-thing before it died.



Because, in point of fact, that is not how it played out.  Should you have any questions, I will be around today to reply.  We are still on initiative.  Because of Traven's death, the combat environment changed so radically that by the middle of Encounter 2, Round 3 I called for Brakkus and Maelicent to clarify intent before continuining with the remainder of the round.  I've got a salient post from Brakkus.  I need you to please clarify what you want your PC to do, given that he is standing in the byway, bow drawn, just after the spider has been slain.  After I receive that info from you, I will go ahead and post a DM's reply for the remainder of Round 3.  

If I have posts from everyone for Round 4, I can maybe also do Round 4 today.  We'll see on that, though.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> it looks to me that you're befuddled about whether Maelicent missed actions.



I don't think I'm befuddled.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Because, in point of fact, that is not how it played out.



Only because you ignored my stated actions in post 68.


----------



## SlagMortar

Rules nit:


> (and boy did you all benefit from me forgetting that every time a PC moves in to attack a creature one size category larger than yourself that it's supposed to draw an AoO from the foe because of threatened squares)



Not all large creatures have reach.  For example a horse is Large size and has a space of 10 feet x 10 feet, but only 5 feet reach.  Of course these demonic wolf spiders may be different.  I'm just pointing out that not all Large creatures have reach.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar, indeed.  Regarding reach and who has it, these ones do.  Still, thank you for the reminder.

Ambrus, here is the information from post #68 that I considered useful to me as DM when I was crafting my post.  You have Maelicent doing the following:


> Move Action: Moving towards the front door.
> Standard Action: Ranged attack - composite longbow +6 (1d6)
> 
> Maelicent will continue moving towards the wolf-spider while continuing to fire arrows at it in subsequent rounds.



The hard and fast of this was that you wanted your character to move toward the wolf spider (who by then was outside), while firing arrows in subsequent rounds.  I therefore had Maelicent do precisely that.  He moved 120 feet to get outside.  The movement precluded firing an arrow.  The map is denoted in 10 foot square increments.  I note that even if Mael moved only 30 feet and tried to fire an arrow, there would have been nothing to fire at because at that point the spider was already outside and Mael was still inside.  Once outside, in the next round, the spider tried to run.  It's attempt to run incurred an AoO that killed it.  There was then nothing left to fire at.  I am completely unclear on how, exactly, you feel you were ignored in all that.  Please feel free to nitpick away with how you envision things should have gone because at this point, I have no clue what it is that you want.  From my perspective, you said you wanted your character to move, *then* fire in later rounds.  Your post in #68 is very clear.  I certainly did not, as you seem to feel, ignore it.  You said what you wanted Mael to do and that is precisely what I had him do.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I will caveat that I'm getting the distinct impression that you are aggravated with the situation in the IC.  I'm a little irritated with it myself, but we need to find out where we miscommunicated and resolve it, and it needs to be today if possible because the issue is holding up combat.  With me fixing to be only semi in the posting loop starting on Friday this week, I don't want to let this hang in the balance too long.  Thanks.


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## CanadienneBacon

Just checked in and saw your edit for round 3, Ambrus.  Thanks.  My infant is making it well and abundantly clear that she needs to be fed and it needs to be _right now_, so I'll go and do that.  When I have her settled, I will hop on over and continue on with the round.  And if we can collect posts for Round 4 from everyone, then I'll be able to put up Round 4 today as well.  

Thanks and hang tight.


----------



## Ambrus

Hm. After reading through it all a third time I think I see what you're getting at. Mael ended the first encounter on the ground with the dead spider on top of him. You say that two-out-of-combat rounds went by. Mael spent the first of those two rounds digging himself out and retrieving his bow. The second out-of-combat round, from what I can tell, is when Traven molted and ran out the door. Mael didn't seem to have a chance to take any action during that round. Effectively, he did nothing at all. You then rolled initiative and began the first round of a second encounter with the spider already outside and running. Considering that the PCs all beat him on initiative when you did roll it, I find that unfair. When I posted my actions in post 68 I believed that all the PCs were acting before Traven, before he had a chance to make it out the door. That, at least, is my error.

Now that we're on the third round of this second encounter, Mael has had four full rounds in which he's done little more than run a lap around the taproom. I'd just like my character to be doing something useful is all. Frankly I don't really care anymore. Forget it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Hm. After reading through it all a third time I think I see what you're getting at. Mael ended the first encounter on the ground with the dead spider on top of him. You say that two-out-of-combat rounds went by. Mael spent the first of those two rounds digging himself out and retrieving his bow. The second out-of-combat round, from what I can tell, is when Traven molted and ran out the door. Mael didn't seem to have a chance to take any action during that round. Effectively, he did nothing at all. You then rolled initiative and began the first round of a second encounter with the spider already outside and running. Considering that the PCs all beat him on initiative when you did roll it, I find that unfair. When I posted my actions in post 68 I believed that all the PCs were acting before Traven, before he had a chance to make it out the door. That, at least, is my error.
> 
> Now that we're on the third round of this second encounter, Mael has had four full rounds in which he's done little more than run a lap around the taproom. I'd just like my character to be doing something useful is all. Frankly I don't really care anymore. Forget it.




The second "round" out of combat, I missed giving your character an action.  You pointed that out, and since you suggested something reasonable, which was having Maelicent search the carcass, I gave you a search for that round.  The results are posted here in the OOC, just a couple of posts up.  Looking at things from your point of view, I can understand that you feel jipped about dropping from first to last (? not sure...would have to go look, but I know it wasn't first) on the initiative count.  Still, from my end of things a new init was needed, so I rolled for everyone.  It's just how it worked out, that Maelicent dropped down like that.  After that, I still can't figure how you think you're missing actions but am willing to let it go, though with misgivings because I sense discontent from your end.  We can call it a scratch for now, if you like, and try anew the next time combat rolls our way.  I think what I will do for future combats is put a freakin' grid overlay with numbered squares up for the battlemat.  That way the players can work out for themselves what square they want to end up in and simply tell me.  Probably save me a lot of time, doing it like that.  I won't have to count squares, you guys can do it.    

If something is still bothering you enough that you feel it merits discussion, contact me via e-mail and we'll work it out in private.  I replied to your initial e-mail to me when I requested everyone send a ping, so you should have my e-mail address on file.  Let me know if you don't.  I'll be happy to re-supply it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've put up a continuation for Round 3 in the IC.  I've also taken us all off initiative.  

Argent, I posted the complete results of Pilgrim's _detect evil_ in the IC.  Pilgrim still has quite a long time left of the spell's duration.  Not wanting to usurp your own PC's actions, I wrote Pilgrim still in the kitchen, still detecting evil.  He senses that nothing blocks his ability to detect within the spell's range (ie: there's no funny monkey business going on, no one has put up a barrier, there's no lead in the room, the wood, metal, and stone in the room are all thinner than what might block the spell).  You're free to drop the spell or continue on with it, moving elsewhere as you see fit.

*ALL:  * I requested and have received e-mail contact from Ambrus, SlagMortar, and Argent, but have yet to hear from Rino or BRP2.  Strahd, I of course have your address already on file because of our other game.  I would like to hand out XP, so Rino and BRP2, please ping me at [email address removed by CB--contact me here in the OOC if you need it].  Thanks.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

Pilgrim is going to keep detecting until he's sure that nothing else is in the area. Was I correct that he was sensing something outside the kitchen b ut not in the Inn?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes, there is something that Pilgrim detected outside the kitchen, not in the inn.  Can't say too much more on the subject without tipping my hand, so I'll simply wait for Pilgrim to declare where he goes and will supply description as necessary.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Yes, there is something that Pilgrim detected outside the kitchen, not in the inn.  Can't say too much more on the subject without tipping my hand, so I'll simply wait for Pilgrim to declare where he goes and will supply description as necessary.



Already declared. He's stepping outside and remember his light sensitivity if the sun is bright enough.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> ALL:  please ping me at [address removed by CB, if you need it, please ask]  so that I can hand out XP.  I'll leave up that email address for a 24 hour period before I take it down tomorrow.




I think I need this again if you don't still have mine from the spider queen game.

Posting xp here openly or in sblocks works for me just as well.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

After I tanked the CotSQ game, I deleted those players' e-mail addresses.  You just never know who's going to decide to hack hotmail, or when.  I didn't feel good keeping someone else's personal info on my account.  It seemed the ethical thing to do.


BRP2 and Rino are the last to check in via e-mail.  I may resort to an OOC comment in the IC to get their attention regarding the ping.


----------



## Rino

Ambrus said:
			
		

> _"Good to know this don't happen too often."_ Still dripping ichor and gore, Maelicent abandons the garden and starts to follow the misshapen dwarf back into the festhall. _"Wand. Right."_ What's a wand? _"So Lewit has the wand? And who's this Lewit guy?"_ _I kinda wish more spider-things would show up. Killin giant bugs was easier than getting some straight talkin out o this bunch..._




last sentence was not spoken out loud?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> _"Yeah. There are tracks; the two spider-things' who started in the garden, there's the lot that you giant-kin and the lizard-kin made trompin around back there just now, the dead runt's, a few others sets that cross from the door to the stables and garden from this mornin and the last set from the giant-kin that came and left along the south path. Can't say if they was from a male or a female, human or elf or when they left for sure. They was made sometime in the past few hours..."_




With the good roll that I rolled for you, Maelicent would know that the tracks were of equal freshness as the spider tracks in the garden.  In essence, all three sets look like they were made at the same time.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Rino said:
			
		

> Dter repleys  "The name is Dter Spiritbreaker and I'm in service of Lodi the Axeless, and just travelling through these lands when I met you all in that bar."




This seems like a good opportunity for me to inject a bit of homebrew flavor here.  The turn of phrase 'Lodi the Axeless' is, as the pantheon says, derogatory.  It's a jibe used against Lodi by other dwarves.  As not only a worshipper but a _cleric_ of Lodi, odds are Dter wouldn't want to risk angering his chosen deity by calling him 'Lodi the Axeless.'  Especially not as a means of introduction to newcomers.

I'm waiting for lightening to come thundering down on Dter at any moment.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

I'll be out in the coming weekend 18-20. I'll be back in Sunday.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Maelicent is using his survival skill to butcher the wolf-spider carcasses. I was thinking that the gently curved black chitin leg segments of the creature would be ideal for forming the limbs of a masterwork composite longbow after being properly cleaned and treated. Also, being made of demon flesh, I'd imagine they'd readily accept magical enchantments later on. The chitinous plates of their body segments might also be ideal for forming strong lightweight armor and shields. My plan was to harvest the three carcasses and possibly try to trade the usable parts to master-bowers and armorsmiths in town in exchange for money and/or new equipment, such as having the aforementioned masterwork composite longbow crafted; demon-hide armor and demon-bone bow. What do you think?




Sure, you can do that.  It will take time to do so, of course.  We can work out how well the carcasses are butchered, how much of the creatures can be saved, etc. via e-mail or here in the OOC.  Right now, however, I was just getting ready to introduce the city Guard into the picture and had planned to give the party fair warning in the IC of the Guard's approach so that if it was decided that everyone wanted to scoot away before the Guard arrived, you all would have time to do so.   I will leave it to you to decide if you all want to stay or leave the Cockatrice.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> I'll be out in the coming weekend 18-20. I'll be back in Sunday.




Thanks for the head's up.  Shouldn't be a problem.


----------



## Ambrus

If the party does decide to flee then I guess Maelicent will just focus on grabbing a second spider leg before he heads out too; the bare minimum to make the two limbs of a bow. :\


----------



## SlagMortar

CB, does Brakkus have any previous experience with the city guard?  Being a soldier in the city for a few months on an unknown assignment, he would have at least looked into the overall strength and preparedness of the watch.  He might also have learned some about their overall structure and outlook (corrupt, upstanding, etc), though with his very average charisma he probably wouldn't have learned anything intimate.  He doesn't have knowledge local, either.  

Any answer is acceptable to me including Brakkus was to busy hitting on Vaja to learn anything useful.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The city Guard is competent.  After enduring two sieges in 60 years, not only is the entire city surrounded by a 70-foot high wall that is 12 feet thick at its base and wide enough on top for a catwalk manned by archers, but the Guard is affiliated with both the Edaesmyd Crown Navy and Army.  

[sblock=Brakkus]Continued...To wit, an Admiral heads the city Guard, and the Guard itself is comprised of lay watch officers and military personnel both.  The Guard is a large organization (they have to be, in order to effectively watch over not only the large city populace, but also the docks, the bridge outside the city, and the perimeter wall) and, as is true with most any large organization, some officials are corrupt.  The current commander is Captain Johns, the grandson of one of Teggest's finest war heroes who was himself Captain of the Guard.  Captain Johns, the first son of a middling noble family, is popular with the folk of the city and the lower ranking members of the Guard.  Within the Guard, however, while Captain Johns is recognized by his surrounding officers as a good-hearted man of the people and a competent tactician, he is less well-regarded as a bureaucrat.  Captain Johns isn't a politician but is nonetheless head of a heavily political organization.  He is widely regarded as a figurehead whose will can unwittingly be bent to the desires of those more astute in the study of politics.  Whether this is true remains to be seen.  Some of the middle-weight officers in the Guard are corrupt and can be bought or persuaded.  Most of the lower enlisted pikemen are interested only in staying out of trouble and will doggedly follow the letter of the law, ignoring its spirit.  Off-duty, this changes.  Off-duty pikemen could certainly be bribed.  It's hard to eek out a living in Teggest and they'd take whatever help they could get.  Trying to pay off a pikeman without the benefit of knowing him first or a bit of fore-planning, however, might be difficult.  They're like bulldogs...on duty, and on the fly, it's hard to get them to budge.  If you have more time to finesse a relationship with one of them, however, then the door opens.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Maelicent has two spider legs with him in the stable.  Let me know if you did not want to haul the spider legs all the way back to the stable, Ambrus.  What's the skill that we're wanting to see how well Maelicent managed to extract the legs?  Survival?  Profession (butcher)?      Ambrus, you and SlagMortar are rules afficianados and right now I can benefit from your knowledge.  Got a skill and check DC for me?  PHB page reference number?  Thanks in advance for the help...

All--XP has been sent to everyone who pinged me.  If you didn't ping me, I wasn't able to dole our your XP.  BRP2 and Rino, you might want to rectify that.  Argent, SlagMortar, Ambrus, Voadam, Strahd, let me know if you did *not* receive email from me containing XP.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Maelicent has two spider legs with him in the stable.  Let me know if you did not want to haul the spider legs all the way back to the stable, Ambrus.  What's the skill that we're wanting to see how well Maelicent managed to extract the legs?  Survival?  Profession (butcher)?      Ambrus, you and SlagMortar are rules afficianados and right now I can benefit from your knowledge.  Got a skill and check DC for me?  PHB page reference number?  Thanks in advance for the help...
> 
> All--XP has been sent to everyone who pinged me.  If you didn't ping me, I wasn't able to dole our your XP.  BRP2 and Rino, you might want to rectify that.  Argent, SlagMortar, Ambrus, Voadam, Strahd, let me know if you did *not* receive email from me containing XP.



I got the e-mail. 

As for the spider legs. It would be survival to "harvest" the parts but it would fall under Armorsmithing (carapace) to actually make armor out of them. There is an extensive overview of this kind of armorsmithing in the Complete Drow book as well as one of the Eberron books (I think races but I'm not sure.) Drow are known for this sort of armor.


----------



## Voadam

ooc are the humanoid and draconic pantheons it for the gods on this world or are there many minor ones as well?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

As I currently have it planned and organized, there are only the homebrew and dragon pantheons.  I'm open to player curiosity, however.  Was there something in particular you were wanting?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> As for the spider legs. It would be survival to "harvest" the parts but it would fall under Armorsmithing (carapace) to actually make armor out of them. There is an extensive overview of this kind of armorsmithing in the Complete Drow book as well as one of the Eberron books (I think races but I'm not sure.) Drow are known for this sort of armor.




Ambrus wants to manufacture a bow out of the legs, I think.  He seems to want to pay a weaponsmith to make the bow, but if he wanted to Craft it himself and were prepared to do so, I should think that'd fall under Craft (weaponsmith).  For just getting the legs off the carcass, or for getting the exoskeleton plates off, I was more looking for a skill for that.  I don't own it myself, but a friend has the Underdark book--leastaways, I think she does...it may be one of the books her husband took with him to Iraq for the year.  If it's not in there or there isn't anything suitable in the PHB, then I will make a trip to the bookstore to look for some of the other sources you mentioned.  Basically, however, unless it's just a gross neglect of something patently in the PHB, I'm ready to simply say he gets what he needs to make his bow.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> As I currently have it planned and organized, there are only the homebrew and dragon pantheons.  I'm open to player curiosity, however.  Was there something in particular you were wanting?




No problems or preferences either way, I'm exploring the world as a newcomer.  

I'm guessing the fish hook was an innocent good luck charm or holy symbol of a fishing god (I believe we are in an appropriate city section for a thug to have a fishery god's holy symbol). Or possibly a torture symbol indicating he was possibly a member of a demon cult or one of the darker gods. Or the symbol could be for a group or thieve's guild or something like that.

If there are no gods but the two pantheons and none of them use a fish hook symbol then that eliminates the possibility of an innocent holy symbol of a minor fishing god and I can then focus my consideration on the other possibilities.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This would be totally meta, but no God in my homebrew uses a fishhook as its primary holy symbol.  And though I have toyed with adding an ocean deity for a couple of years now, I haven't done it yet, so there is no water God.  

Have you ever seen those ivory or bone Maori and Hawaiian fishhook pendants that some people wear on a cord around their throat?  Think that style.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Ambrus wants to manufacture a bow out of the legs, I think.  He seems to want to pay a weaponsmith to make the bow, but if he wanted to Craft it himself and were prepared to do so, I should think that'd fall under Craft (weaponsmith).  For just getting the legs off the carcass, or for getting the exoskeleton plates off, I was more looking for a skill for that.  I don't own it myself, but a friend has the Underdark book--leastaways, I think she does...it may be one of the books her husband took with him to Iraq for the year.  If it's not in there or there isn't anything suitable in the PHB, then I will make a trip to the bookstore to look for some of the other sources you mentioned.  Basically, however, unless it's just a gross neglect of something patently in the PHB, I'm ready to simply say he gets what he needs to make his bow.




Cleaning a carcass would fall under the Survival skill in my opinion. Using the materials to then craft something would fall under the craft skill; respectively craft (bower/fletcher) for making a bow and craft (armorsmithing) for armor. The Player's Handbook is all you'd need to adjudicate either process, unless you want to introduce special rules for chitin armor or weapons (which may exist in the Arm's and Equipment Guide, I'd have to check); otherwise the armor would likely be equivalent to either leather or hide. If you want to be more liberal then you could equate it with dragonhide as a special material, mirroring the costs, time and results for that material as presented in the Dungeon Master's Guide; allowing for the manufacture of the types of armor usually limited to being produced with metal.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Have you ever seen those ivory or bone Maori and Hawaiian fishhook pendants that some people wear on a cord around their throat?  Think that style.




Never. Ties, bolo ties, bow ties, scarves, kerchiefs, necklaces, amulets, dog collars, chokers, and other pendants yes but never a hook pendant. But then I work in Washington D.C. and don't live in Hawaii.


----------



## Ambrus

I think this is what CB is referring to:


----------



## Argent Silvermage

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Pulling out the wand from the deep of his pants Gamad wave the wand for the goblin to see, he then pass the wand to the Voadam.
> You are trusty enough to bear it.




I LOLed!


----------



## Ambrus

Yeah. Me too.  
"Watch out, I think the albino's got wood in his breeches."

Strahd, please tell us you were aware of how that would sound when you typed it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yup, that is the exact shape I had in mind for the fish hook pendant.  That shape but with an older, more antique looking piece of bone.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Wow, I missed a real opportunity there to make the wand be crafted out of *bone* instead of matte black metal.  Definitely one time I should've ignored the module.


----------



## Voadam

Cheal's companions at least are bound right?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Rope had been called for several times, and Brakkus did hand Voadam rope back in the garden area, but no one ever stated they tied up Cheal.  You all got to talking, then the guard came, then Maelicent and Gamad went to hide in the stable.  I was looking and looking for a post where someone said they tied up the thugs but I never saw one.  Let me know if I missed it, and where, please.  I just re-read from page 3 to the end and didn't see anything.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm still not quite sure how to respond to Strahd's last post since (aside from making Maelicent uncomfortable to be alone with the dwarf) Gammad made mention of passing the wand along to Voadam. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm not for certain on this, but I think that was a typo on Strahd's behalf re: handing the wand to Voadam.  Strahd'll have to answer that for himself, though.


----------



## Ambrus

I believe it reflects his intention, in post 157, to return inside the inn after the guards came to collect the dead groom's body. I'm guessing that Strahd assumed that Gammad and Mael were back inside the Cockatrice with everyone else.


----------



## Voadam

Sense motive -1, obviously Cheal's an evil lying cultist, his man had that hook torture symbol of their cult on him.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Rope had been called for several times, and Brakkus did hand Voadam rope back in the garden area, but no one ever stated they tied up Cheal.  You all got to talking, then the guard came, then Maelicent and Gamad went to hide in the stable.  I was looking and looking for a post where someone said they tied up the thugs but I never saw one.  Let me know if I missed it, and where, please.  I just re-read from page 3 to the end and didn't see anything.




My error.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Not really, it would've been just as easy for me to assume that because Voadam had called for rope that he went ahead and tied up the thugs.  I'm still feeling out the players in this game.  Some of you would probably mind if I did things out of assumption while others of you might be upset that I _didn't_ do things out of assumption.  In any case, the other two thugs are still on the floor unconscious and there's plenty of rope to tie them up together.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> Sense motive -1, obviously Cheal's an evil lying cultist, his man had that hook torture symbol of their cult on him.




Exactly.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Not really, it would've been just as easy for me to assume that because Voadam had called for rope that he went ahead and tied up the thugs.  I'm still feeling out the players in this game.  Some of you would probably mind if I did things out of assumption while others of you might be upset that I _didn't_ do things out of assumption.  In any case, the other two thugs are still on the floor unconscious and there's plenty of rope to tie them up together.




I thought I had posted a statement saying I bound them but I must have deleted that part in revising one of the posts before actually posting when I was responding to other things in character.


----------



## Voadam

The IC was fun but I'm happy to abstract to keep things moving.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Where would you all like to go next?  The map of the city in the OP of the IC, with its map key, may prove useful.  Please let me know if there is anything I can elaborate on.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Gamad and Mael are still in the stable ? did the two men left ?
If yes, then what Gamad meant is to return to the main hall and show the wand to Voadam.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This is the last bit of my downtime with my husband before he returns to work. Posting on my end has been sparse, I know, but it'll return to normal after the 30th. Thanks, and see you all after the weekend.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll be working on busting out posts today, tonight, and tomorrow afternoon.  Off and on as my day permits.  I've got the regular household and child duties to tend to that I normally have on a daily basis, plus my infant has a doctor's appt on Wednesday morning.  In between, however, I'll be around to post.  Thank you all for you patience in waiting while I was away enjoying family time.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Argent, did you have food poisoning?  Saw your note in the IC and I wondered.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Power's been in and out here.  We've been having 30+ mph wind for three/four days now, up from Kona.  Not usual for us.  Trees are down and the power cuts in and out.  A couple of times I've lost a post I was working on, and yesterday we had no power for half the day.  I promise I haven't abandoned the game, I'm just kind of waiting for the storm front to finish what it's going to do and for the power to quit surging.


----------



## Voadam

I'm hoping its just him trying to run and not somebody who just killed him trying to run.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Oh, he's in there, alright.  He fell off the rope while trying to get out via the roof.   :\


----------



## Voadam

Rodney Dangerfield, the NPC. He's been nicknamed a term for spoiled food, He's been kicked out of his family and the nobility by his own brother, he's lost his one valuable magic item, thugs who see him instantly think "Hey! A chump we can roll!", and now he's doing painful pratfalls.


----------



## BRP2

Hahaha, now I'm totally seeing him looking like that.

(btw, don't mind H.L.'s odd acting in my most recent post, he is the type of guy to make the worst jokes at the worst times).


----------



## SlagMortar

I thought that was hilarious.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The character's name in the module is Rance.  But about five years ago I read a book that was downright hilarious by an author named Pat McManus.  The book is called "A Fine and Pleasant Misery."  There's a character in there called Rancid Crabtree.  I couldn't resist.


----------



## Ambrus

Once he's had a dead demon wolf-spider-thing's corpse fall and bleed on him then I'll feel sorry for the guy. Until then, he gets _no respect_.


----------



## Voadam

I finally looked up ranger max starting money, 240 gp. At 15 gp a charge that would be 16 charges, minus the 1 for healing Rodney leaves me with 15.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam, is that wand your PC has set at 1st caster level?  I'll go ahead and presume yes so I can post how much you healed Rancid in the IC.  If it's set at something other than minimum level, let me know and I'll edit later.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Voadam, is that wand your PC has set at 1st caster level?  I'll go ahead and presume yes so I can post how much you healed Rancid in the IC.  If it's set at something other than minimum level, let me know and I'll edit later.




1st is correct.


----------



## Argent Silvermage

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Argent, did you have food poisoning?  Saw your note in the IC and I wondered.



Still getting over it. It seems none of my loved ones were willing to "Put me out of my misery."


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Join in when you can.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd, I sent an email to you today regarding Gamad.  Let me know if you didn't receive it.


----------



## Voadam

Would it be too late to say that one of the PCs who hasn't posted IC went with Gamad so we don't leave the wand holder entirely alone?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Nope.  Pretty much that makes it Rino's character, Dter the cleric.  They're both dwarves so it's not implausible that they would stick together.

Speaking of Rino, I will make a good faith effort today and through the weekend to locate him.  If we do not hear from him by Monday morning, I will begin recruiting a replacement cleric.


----------



## Voadam

Great, I feel less irresponsible now about leaving the wand with him alone.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Rino, sent you an email via EN World and the server here.  Need to hear from you soon, please.  If real life's got you bogged down, just drop us a line and let us know.  No worries, but I _do_ want to get a replacement cleric if you can no longer post daily.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Monday and Tuesday this week I have church events to host and attend.  I'll be posting but not until later in the day.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's Monday morning.  Rino has not replied via e-mail and hasn't shown up here to post; therefore, his character (Dter the dwarven cleric) has moved to the inactive list and become an NPC.  The group needs a cleric, so I'm opening this up for recruitment.

We need a cleric!  Medic!   If you're reading this and think you would like to give this game a whirl, please post here with a sentence or two containing your character concept.  Alignment, weapon used, deity worshipped, domains.  I don't need to see stats or numbers just yet, just a sketch containing the above with whatever other tidbits you might feel are essential.


----------



## Voadam

I'm sure the wand's unknown powers will reveal it is an unlimited healing artefact with no demonic side effects capable of restorations, neutralizing poisons, and curing diseases, in addition to curing battle wounds so I'm sure that should be sufficient for our purposes.  

The question now is whether Gamad's sparkling personality will drive off Dter, whether a demonic cultist will whack Dter, or whether Dter will be called off for holy duties.


----------



## Voadam

> Voadam = [RED]red[/RED], Brakkus = [BLUE]blue[/BLUE]
> [BLUE]Traven ... [/BLUE]
> [RED]Yes, ah -[/RED]
> [BLUE]"The other demons ..."[/BLUE]
> [RED]I agree -[/RED]
> [BLUE]"I think Traven ..."[/BLUE]
> [RED]"Look, your conclusions all make sense, but it still seems like we are missing a lot of information. The location it was found is just another thing to check if the rest of our leads do turn up anything. Let's go find this gypsy! We can talk more on the way."[/RED]




Voadam, my most talkative and analytical character.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam is talkative, isn't he.  Surprising.


----------



## SlagMortar

Yeah, before posting I just had a terrific vision of Brakkus sitting on his horse with his powerful 10 Cha trying to get a word in edgewise.  Oh well, as a younger child he is used to being talked over.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Wow, not a single taker on cleric recruitment.   :\


----------



## Mista Collins

I am interested in playing a cleric role in this. Would I be a new character or taking over an existing character. Let me read up on the threads and get some more info.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I would prefer if you created your own character.  You'll have more of a sense of ownership in the game.  

Besides, I have plans for Dter.


----------



## Mista Collins

Bummer, _I_ had plans for Dter.    Just kidding.

The concept I have is for a male human cleric of Narn. Though he worships the Father of Battle, most of his focus is on healing those who exemplify the glorious gift of arms. He grew up in Edaesmyd and some of his ancestors fought in the Twenyahrs War.

Alignment: LN
Weapon Used: Battleaxe (and a light wooden shield in the other hand)
Deity: NARN
Domains: Strength & War
Feats: Combat Casting, Augment Healing [or Sill Focus (Concentration)]

I was curious if you would allow the "Augment Healing" feat from Complete Divine. It adds +2 per spell level on the damage healed when casting a healing spell. I think it goes well with the character concept because "Narn's priests are bestowed with exceptional healing power."


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Really, the objective is just to have you fitted with a character that you like, one for which you have some emotional investment.  If you like Dter and want to play him, then sure, go for it.  If you'd rather play the LN cleric of Narn, then that's okay too.  

I'm sorry, I won't allow the Augment Healing feat from Complete Divine because everyone else playing created their characters from PHB/DMG/MM material.  BUT, you are super in luck because in my homebrew, clerics of Narn don't have to roll to see how much their cure light, cure moderate, cure serious, and cure critical spells heal.  All of those four spells are automatically numerically maxed every casting.    Hope that helps assuage not getting Augment Healing.


----------



## Mista Collins

Well then, a mere +2 hit points on a cure light wounds doesn't seem that important anymore if it is going to be maxed every time  . Works for me. I'll find another feat (not sure if I want to go with Skill Focus yet or not).

I'm also going to read over your notes about your homebrew a little bit more and still want to get through the IC thread before coming up with a background. I am enjoying what I am reading so far.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

On the premise that you'll be joining us, Mista Collins, I'll remove the recruiting tag from this thread.


----------



## Mista Collins

Sounds good. I'll try to get the character into the Rogue's Gallery later today. How do you want the character introduced?


----------



## Voadam

Welcome aboard MC.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Sounds good. I'll try to get the character into the Rogue's Gallery later today. How do you want the character introduced?




I'll read your character's background to see if there's something in there that might be of assistance.  Barring that, I do believe that in order to expedite matters I am going to go totally and utterly meta on this one.  Perhaps while standing there talking to Gamad, Dter will simply morph into your new character.  That ought to really wig out Gamad.


----------



## Voadam

If you do so, I will work on coming up with a theory involving Chaos when Voadam learns about it. This will significantly lend credence to the theory that the wand is a thing of Chaos the demons want, definitely more than a common cure light wounds wand.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That was my thought as well.  But I didn't figure anyone else but me would find it either interesting or humorous.     I'm delighted!


----------



## Voadam

In the original game where I played Voadam the DM would say black holes erupted under the characters of players who were not at the game, swallowing them up no save so they dissappeared. Players who showed up and had not been in the scene before had their characters fall out of black holes near the party. This worked out of game to have everybody who was there immediately together so we could dive into the game as a group without delay.

The DM had no in-game explanation for this so I came up with one in-character theorizing it was tied to our involvement in restoring our world's corrupted elemental magic sites and the resulting creation of new magic. This partially explained why it happened to us and why it brought us back together and why it worked even from one world to the next (it was a spelljammer campaign). To explain why it happened to new characters who had not been there I theorized about transmitting the condition. I even later made some spells based off of the phenomena.


----------



## Mista Collins

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I'll read your character's background to see if there's something in there that might be of assistance.  Barring that, I do believe that in order to expedite matters I am going to go totally and utterly meta on this one.  Perhaps while standing there talking to Gamad, Dter will simply morph into your new character.  That ought to really wig out Gamad.




Good, I've really enjoyed reading the thread. What a cast of characters. And Gamad wigging out is entertaining to say the least.


----------



## Mista Collins

Just posted the character in the Rogue's Gallery. I just need to add his background and appearance. I might not be able to get to those until Saturday (I'm heading out of town until then).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

There, it's done.  Mista Collins is in like Flynn.  Hope you two don't mind me injecting that you are "confused."  I normally shy away from telling players how their characters feel and react.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Argent Silvermage said:
			
		

> Still getting over it. It seems none of my loved ones were willing to "Put me out of my misery."




Argent, two questions for you:

1.) Did you eat peanut butter?  It was on the news here this morning that Peter Pan and Great Value brand peanut butter with the source code 2111 stamped on the lid may contain salmonella.  I'm not one to loyally buy any one brand of peanut butter, but I did happen to have two jars of Peter Pan in my larder with that code on them.  Threw 'em out this morning, as it may explain why a couple of us had sour stomachs two days in a row last week.  Thank goodness it was nothing more than that.  Still, hearing about the salmonella made me think of you.

2.) Food poisoning aside, are you able to keep up with this game?  It's been nearly a month since we've seen regular daily posting action from you.  Let me know if I need to shelve Pilgrim.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

To let the other players get a word in edgewise while Arquesta and Voadam've been going back and forth, I'm going to hold off posting more for Arquesta for a bit.  Maelicent's been uncharacteristically quiet, Pilgrim is just along for the ride at this point while we wait for Argent to re-appear, and Brakkus I think has only gotten in a little here and there.  Same for Lewit.  Speaking of Lewit, BRP2, what's the scoop?  You were in the hospital?


----------



## Ambrus

Our internet has been down at work for the past few days so I've been having trouble getting through. My Star Wars PBP is also at an end it seems so I should be able to get back to this game more regularly now.


----------



## SlagMortar

Welcome aboard, Mista!  Nice to have a fellow Narn worshiper with us.  

I'll get a post in for Brakkus tonight.  Don't worry too much about speeding passed me.  I've got pretty constant access even if I don't always have time.  If something important comes up, I'll get a post in.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CB, how do you want me to react to Chev (MC's new character)
Is Dter going to morph into Chev so I'll play it like he was always there instead of the evil dwarf … Or, do you want me to wig Dter out of the room and he will leave town deeply insulted and then Chev will appear ?


----------



## BRP2

Yeah, I was a bit ill. It should all be good now, but I might not be at my best ability just yet. Don't worry, I'm going to do my best to make it seem my best ;p.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd, ultimately we'll obviously need a group that can work together, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't be able to react to wonky events however you deem best for Gamad.  React how you like; we'll work with or around it for the time being if need be.

And, yes, Dter just totally morphed into Chev.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I was a bit ill. It should all be good now, but I might not be at my best ability just yet. Don't worry, I'm going to do my best to make it seem my best ;p.




Hope you get to feeling better soon.  Drop a line via email if you need.


----------



## Voadam

I just reread the loot Voadam got from the thug leader and he had no cash on him. I only picked up 6 coppers from one of the secondary ones. Crap, I can't pay for this meal.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That's hilarious.   And it was on Valentine's Day here in the real world, too.  I'm sure something will be figured out.  And, if not, then there's always washing dishes in the kitchen for Connie Buttonslow.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I know how much I love it when a DM starts tossing around obscure names and tidbits that have nothing to do with my character and are way over my head; in an effort to mitigate the cheese factor of this portion of the module, I'll be rolling some Knowledge checks for those of you with trained ranks in that skill.  I'll post the results here.

Voadam, your character really needs some trained ranks in Knowledge (the planes) to support his background.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=SlagMortar]To Brakkus's trained eye, the gypsy woman Arquesta has a noble bearing.  She sits erect at the table and when Maelicent and Lewit snatched food from the platter with their hands, Arquesta's look of disapproval was fleeting but Brakkus saw it.  Additionally, Arquesta's speech is well-mannered, well-modulated, and calm; all the markings of nobility.  The woman is tall, her nose is aqualine, and her features well-portioned.[/sblock]


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I know how much I love it when a DM starts tossing around obscure names and tidbits that have nothing to do with my character and are way over my head; in an effort to mitigate the cheese factor of this portion of the module, I'll be rolling some Knowledge checks for those of you with trained ranks in that skill.  I'll post the results here.
> 
> Voadam, your character really needs some trained ranks in Knowledge (the planes) to support his background.




Second level and on. I promise.  

I however actually do love when unknown names get thrown around and prefer learning them in game rather than just knowing them from checks.

Voadam has dealt with drow before and was on a world with Moorcock cosmology, including the whole world being surrounded by raw Chaos and the Stormbringer Chaos pantheon being active. The Swordmistress female Chaos lord that Voadam is referencing IC is called Xiombarg if I recall correctly.

I have heard of the Wind Dukes and the Rod of Seven Parts from the 1e DMG but Voadam is just learning about them and happy to hear interesting background stuff.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I rolled Knowledge (history) for H. Lewit and I rolled a 1.  Sorry.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm running a 12k on Monday so I'll be out of the loop til Tuesday this coming week.


----------



## Mista Collins

Well I'm back from my 4 day road trip, and posted Chev's first entry. Now I just need to put the finishing touches on Chev's background.


----------



## Voadam

> Perhaps there are thing that good goblins were simply not meant to know...




Luckily Malicent is not good.   

And the game turns into Call of Goblinthulhu as Malicent slowly loses his sanity listening to the ravings of the giant-kin known as Voadam.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> Luckily Malicent is not good.



Says you.







			
				Voadam said:
			
		

> And the game turns into Call of Goblinthulhu as Malicent slowly loses his sanity listening to the ravings of the giant-kin known as Voadam.



You have to admit, Voadam does sound like a crackpot. I mean it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that the guy you met in a bar who claims to be a demon-hunter from another world is off his rocker. The fact that he meets a delusional gypsy-woman doesn't mean that either of them aren't any less crazy, just that they now have someone else with which to share their particular flavor of lunacy.

It's nice that Voadam has found himself a friend. Crazy extraplanar demon-hunters unite!


----------



## Mista Collins

Ambrus said:
			
		

> It's nice that Voadam has found himself a friend. Crazy extraplanar demon-hunters unite!




My thoughts exactly as I read over this thread before joining the game.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

And may I just echo this sentiment?   

Not because I think Voadam is crazy but because I just sorta can't believe some the crap in the module.   Am doing my best to bring it down a notch or two to make it hopefully more digestible for 1st (vice 14th!) level PCs.


----------



## Mista Collins

I've never dealt with the module, but I have heard a lot about some of "the crap" in it. Whatever you are doing seems to be working. At least as far as I can tell.


----------



## Ambrus

I don't know anything about the module beyond the fact that it features a rod, broken into seven parts. I'm certain converting it for low-level play isn't easy CB, but hearing this conversation does make me feel like I brought a 1st level character to an epic level game. Voadam on the other hand sounds like he's fallen right into his groove.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> And may I just echo this sentiment?
> 
> Not because I think Voadam is crazy but because I just sorta can't believe some the crap in the module.






> The woman colors when asked for a lock of her hair but gently says, "Cursed as I am, you could not know that in my true form, I am no woman.




heh.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> "Cursed as I am, you could not know that in my true form, I am no woman.



I heard something similar last time I was in a bar. Funny story that.


----------



## SlagMortar

> You have to admit, Voadam does sound like a crackpot. I mean it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that the guy you met in a bar who claims to be a demon-hunter from another world is off his rocker.



In general, yup, I agree.  The wolf headed demon spiders went a long way toward convincing Brakkus though.  And he's more than happy to follow around a crazy guy for a few days to break up the monotony.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Says you.You have to admit, Voadam does sound like a crackpot. I mean it wouldn't be a stretch to imagine that the guy you met in a bar who claims to be a demon-hunter from another world is off his rocker. The fact that he meets a delusional gypsy-woman doesn't mean that either of them aren't any less crazy, just that they now have someone else with which to share their particular flavor of lunacy.
> 
> It's nice that Voadam has found himself a friend. Crazy extraplanar demon-hunters unite!






			
				Mista Collins said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly as I read over this thread before joining the game.






			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> And may I just echo this sentiment?






			
				SlagMortar said:
			
		

> In general, yup, I agree.




No, no, I'm the sane one, you just don't know the whole truth about reality and its cosmic horrors. The demons can look like people but in truth they are alien things filled with malevolence towards humanity. We must stop them! 

Oh and I'm a wizard too. I used to rule an empire. I just happen to be broke at the moment. Really.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ex-actly.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

And I'm Winnie-the-Pooh


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2, I've not seen a post in the IC from you in seven days, yet I note you're posting in Q'barra.  Are you able to keep up with this game or do you need to let it go?  The party is at a pretty good place and point in time if you need to part ways.  Let us know, please.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I had a look at my downstairs computer and after hunting around for my XP records, I couldn't find anything.  I'm fairly certain I have not given out XP to you guys, but if you all could please sound off on whether I have or have not given it out, that would be helpful.  

Levels come too slow in PbP, so all active players will be getting your level x 100 XP per month for active posting.  This is in addition to any RP, bonus, or plain jane encounter XP that I award.  I'll be backdating posting XP to December, so everyone but Chev'll have a minimum of 300 XP.  Chev will have 100 XP, to reflect that he's been involved in the game for roughly one month.

If you haven't pinged me via e-mail, now might be a good time.  wlburford at hotmail dot com.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I had a look at my downstairs computer and after hunting around for my XP records, I couldn't find anything.  I'm fairly certain I have not given out XP to you guys, but if you all could please sound off on whether I have or have not given it out, that would be helpful.
> 
> Levels come too slow in PbP, so all active players will be getting your level x 100 XP per month for active posting.  This is in addition to any RP, bonus, or plain jane encounter XP that I award.  I'll be backdating posting XP to December, so everyone but Chev'll have a minimum of 300 XP.  Chev will have 100 XP, to reflect that he's been involved in the game for roughly one month.
> 
> If you haven't pinged me via e-mail, now might be a good time.  wlburford at hotmail dot com.




You have, I emailed you back your original message with the amount and the January date you sent it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Heh.  Thanks.  Now if Ambrus, Strahd, and SlagMortar could forward my original back to me, that'd be great.    I seem to have no electronic copy of XP.  If I am unable to find my hard copy, you all can bet that I'll make sure you come out the better for my mistake.  Sorry for this inconvenience.

<----frantically trying to locate scrap of paper on which January XP awards were given...grrrr...I hate moving.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> The demons can look like people but in truth they are alien things filled with malevolence towards humanity.



Are you talking about my character?  

CB, I believe most of us are keeping track of awarded xp on our character sheets in the Rogue's Gallery. At least I am.


----------



## Mista Collins

I pinged you via email, just so that if you need to reach me through that you can.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> CB, I believe most of us are keeping track of awarded xp on our character sheets in the Rogue's Gallery. At least I am.




Well, now that would just be the obvious and easy thing, wouldn't it?    Thanks for letting me know.  I can get tunnel vision sometimes; it never occured to me to check with the RG.  I did finally find that piece of paper last night, but it took me a bit of looking.  I've since created an electronic copy of XP on my new computer up on the main level of this new house, so hopefully this won't crop up again.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> I pinged you via email, just so that if you need to reach me through that you can.




Ping received, and XP sent via e-mail.  Thanks!


----------



## BRP2

I'm here, sorry. The most recent of things going has let Lewit fade in the background a bit. I've been just observing because I'm not too relevant at the moment.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for letting us know.  I prefer if players post even when the temptation is to fade into the background; this game is a lot more fun for everyone if everyone regularly participates.


----------



## BRP2

I'll try more 

To be honest, I fell behind while I was in the hospital, and didn't have a full grasp on what was going on and didn't want to say anything stupid.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

No worries, you can even make that work for you.  Lewit is somewhat of an oddball, and having him say something totally irrelevant to the current conversation wouldn't be far off the mark for the character.

Glad to hear you're out of the hospital.


----------



## SlagMortar

I fall into the same thing, BRP.  Even if you don't have much to add, you can always pop into the this thread to let us know you are around.  I do enjoy Lewit's posts, though, so the more of those the better as far as I'm concerned.


----------



## Ambrus

Warning: Explicit demon butchering content below.

CB, it's my intention to have Maelicent return to the stables behind the cockatrice to finish butchering the two large wolf-spider carcasses he's got stashed there. He'll likely set himself up in an empty stall and work on one carcass at a time; doing his best to suspend it from the rafters by means of whatever rope or tack he can find to better allow the fluids to drain as he works. If that's not feasible he'll prop them up against the back wall as best he can. He'll use his axe to hack through the tough joints and his knives to carefully cut and pry off the chitinous leg segments and body plates. The wolf heads seem mammalian so I'm guessing that they're large fur covered canine skulls. Mael will do his best to strip off the usable fur pelt sections and in turn detach the bare wolf skulls from the bodies for later cleaning. Then depending on what the wolf-spiders' internal arrangements are the goblin will try to salvage what seems usable; likely cutting and pulling out the tendons to make sinew cord.

Once both carcasses are in pieces Maelicent will go ahead and start cleaning the various parts by scrapping them with his knives and possibly scouring the chitin with sand and water. The fur pelts he'll stretch and scrape clean before he rubs the oil from skulls' brain pans to soften them up. The skulls will be similarly stripped bare, scraped an scoured clean. Later all this stuff will be set to dry in the sun, possibly on the roof of the stables. The skulls will likely require some boiling in water to get all the fleshy bits off. All of the of the left-over gristle, muscle et al will be dumped into an empty troth for later disposal into a midden pile.

I don't know if it'll all work out as planned, but that's what he'll be doing for the next little while. I believe his survival skill is good enough to butcher and dress carcasses. Later he'll likely try touring the local crafstmen, apothecaries, armorers and bowyers around town to try and sell it.

Also, while he's working on them, Maelicent will be examining the bodies to familiarize himself with their anatomy; in particular their weak and vulnerable spots. I figure that he'll eventually be able to take evil outsiders as a favored enemy if he studies them long enough.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That all sounds like a grand and well-thought-out plan.  Let me provide a bit of further detail that will aid you in prepping all of this.  It was late afternoon when the party started off at the Golden Cockatrice.  After trekking west into and through the heart of the warehouse district, then following Rancid over to the Rivermark, then walking back across the city to the Copper Coin to speak with Arquesta, and _then_ humping it all the way across town to the Aest Bar to pick up Gamad at the Sniffling Pig, it's now late in the day.  I put the current time in Teggest at 7 pm.  The sun is still up, but there are probably only two hours of daylight left.  Seasonally speaking, it's the month of Revot (named after Reven, the God of Destruction, Chaos, and Fire) and the hottest part of the year in Teggest.  The days are long; sunrise comes at 5:30 am, sunset at 9 pm.  

Maelicent can borrow rope from Vaja and Frane, if he hasn't any.  He may also lay the skins on the stable roof.  Breaking down and tanning hide takes a while, though.  When will Maelicent want to start on this task, and do you have a contingency plan if the adventure takes you away from the stable?


----------



## Ambrus

Being a goblin, I imagine Maelicent would prefer to keep nighttime hours, but has been making an effort to come into town during the day while searching for adventurers. Consequently he'll have little problem with simply working late into the night. When he finally gets tired he'll simply sleep in the stables; it's likely a better shelter then he's been keeping for the past few months anyways. I figure he'll probably rise sometime around noon the next day.

For the first step, Maelicent will use the proffered rope to truss the carcasses and focus on separating the parts he wants to keep; the chitin, fur, skulls and sinew from all the gristle and gore he intends to dispose of later. He'll also keep a few of the useful fluids (such as the oils and blood) in buckets for later use. That'll probably take a good while. Setting the skulls to boil as early as possible would probably be best since they'll likely take a good while to come clean. It'd be great if he could use a large pot in the kitchen's hearth for that so he'd probably ask Vaja and Frane for permission to do so before they turn in. Stretching the hides would probably be one of the last things he'd do before turning in; sometime around 4 am or so.

When he finally gets up he can check on his materials. Hopefully the local vermin will have helped by chewing away some of the meaty bits off of the chitin. Either way he'll spend some final time scouring a few plates and leg segments with sand and water. That'd then be a good time to take a few ready samples and try visiting the local craftsmen and apothecaries to gauge the interest and value of what he's got. That'd probably take a few hours during the afternoon. Later he'll head back to the stables and continue his cleaning and scraping work assuming he's lined up some good trades for the stuff. Hopefully a second night of work will be enough to get most of the job finished. One other thing he'd like to do is work on his overcoat by dieing it in the demons' blood and setting it to dry. Later that second day, assuming everything is ready, he'd be able to deliver the materials around town for the agreed upon trades.

Maelicent doesn't really have a contingency plan since he doesn't know when or if anything else will next occur. If something happens to interrupt his work then he'll likely stop at whatever point he's reached and deal with it while planning to resume his work when next possible. It seems that the others are all involved in simply chasing down NPCs to talk and truth be told, Maelicent isn't really anxious to get involved in that sort of business right away. Listening to Voadam has given the little guy quite the headache.


----------



## Voadam

You and Lewitt escaped just in time then.    I just posted Voadam's theories about Dter/Chev and how they might relate to the current situation with the Rod.

Mista Collins, hope you don't mind my putting some words in Chev's mouth about Narn.


----------



## Voadam

CB, in post 328 you had Arquesta say 







> after the war between Chaos and Evil an aeon ago and the shattering of the Rod,




Did she actually say between Chaos and Evil? or is that just a mistype of between Chaos and Law?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That's a typo.  Thanks for pointing that out.  After I'm done posting today, I'll edit in a fix.  It should read Chaos and Law.


----------



## Mista Collins

Nope, I don't mind you putting words in Chev's mouth. I have had limited connection lately and not much time to type out along post about Narn. But you did a nice recap of what I _would _ have typed.


----------



## Ambrus

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Nope, I don't mind you putting words in Chev's mouth. I have had limited connection lately and not much time to type out along post about Narn. But you did a nice recap of what I _would _ have typed.



Maybe we should all simply allow Voadam to play our characters. We'd probably all end up sounding much more clever and eloquent.


----------



## Mista Collins

...and crazy.


----------



## Ambrus

Touché.


----------



## Voadam

I expect to be significantly overshadowed when it comes to combat, the high int, no armor warrior is not a strong combat build, and though eldritch knight is great for soloing, the build quickly is overshadowed by normal characters in a full party IME. However I do enjoy the character and diving into political and occult puzzles and situations.


----------



## Voadam

Post 351 we headed upstairs to Gamads room to discuss in private.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks.  Edited accordingly.


----------



## Mista Collins

I am going to be gone until March 8th. I might be able to find some downtime during my training for this new job, but it is very unlikely. Feel free to NPC Chev until I return.


----------



## BRP2

Sorry, I'm posting now. I should be more catched up and more involved now, my internet messed up for about 30 hours, but I just got it fixed.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for the head's up that you'll be away, Mista Collins.  I 'preciate that.  And thanks for posting, BRP2.  I 'preciate that, too.


----------



## Voadam

Trying to lay the foundation for multiclassing into wizard at level two.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Cleaning a carcass would fall under the Survival skill in my opinion. Using the materials to then craft something would fall under the craft skill; respectively craft (bower/fletcher) for making a bow and craft (armorsmithing) for armor. [...snip...] If you want to be more liberal then you could equate it with dragonhide as a special material, mirroring the costs, time and results for that material as presented in the Dungeon Master's Guide; allowing for the manufacture of the types of armor usually limited to being produced with metal.




Unless someone owns, say, Fiendish Codex I and can tell me whether there are guidelines in there for demonhide armor, I plan to use the dragonhide guidelines as presented in the DMG.  Two out of the three large sized spiders are being harvested.  The third spider, Traven, was trampled in the street, rendering its remains unsuitable.  Using the chitinous plates on one spider's exoskeleton, an armorsmith can produce one suit of masterwork banded mail for a small or smaller creature, or one suit of masterwork half-plate for a creature tiny or smaller, or one masterwork suit of full plate for a diminuitive or smaller creature, or one masterwork breastplate for a small creature, or one masterwork suit of hide armor for a medium or smaller creature.  For the tiny and diminuitive suits, cost will be more (if you can find a smith who can even do it) because it's tricky to make a suit of armor so small.  In addition, there will also be enough hide to craft a light or heavy masterwork shield.  The legs, all sixteen of which are viable, provide enough material for sixteen small-sized masterwork short- or longbows.

Dragonhide, or in this case demonhide, costs double what masterwork normally costs, but takes no longer to fashion into items than does ordinary material.  You'll want to know this when you take the bits of leftover tanned, cured spider to the armor and weapon smiths.

Maelicent has never seen a demon spider before and would have little intimate knowledge with how to best butcher the creatures that their best parts could be kept intact.  Modeling his butchering technique off of what he might know to do when dealing with a more mundane monstrous spider, Survival DC 20 sounds appropriate to harvest the wolf spiders.  One roll per each spider.

Now, as for how long each spider will take Maelicent to butcher.  Working by himself in unfamiliar territory with improvised tools...24 hours of work per creature.  If he rolls well on his Survival check, the amount of time it takes him to butcher a wolf spider can be reduced by -2 hours for every +1 by which he beats the DC of 20.

If Maelicent fails to beat the DC 20 by 4 or less, then he'll need to spend another 12 hours before he can finish butchering but will be assumed to have the job done in 36 hours.  Failure by 5 or more will indicate that the attempt went so badly that not all of the creature's parts can be harvested.  I prefer to leave this a bit open to DM interpretation as to how much, if any, he can get.

Take a moment, please, to review the above and chip in with any comments or questions.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I have posted in the IC to the effect that the night passed uneventfully.  Please indicate in the IC where your PC stayed and what errands he might have done last night or this morning.  If there is some small task like buying gear or quickly going to talk to someone that we can simply assume to have done before 8 am, so much the better.  There were two hours in the evening and two hours in the morning during which shops in town were still open.  I don't want to hand wave details away but neither do I want to ignore them altogether.  If you feel like your PC is good to go and wants for nothing, then go right ahead and post as much in the IC.


----------



## Voadam

I'll wait until I've got more than 6 cp before I buy anything substantial.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Unless someone owns, say, Fiendish Codex I and can tell me whether there are guidelines in there for demonhide armor, I plan to use the dragonhide guidelines as presented in the DMG.



I flipped through the book but, unsurprisingly, there's nothing in there about making demonhide armor. I did notice that the arms & equipment guide does include rules for making chitin armor and weapons out of giant spider remains. Here's the blurb if you're interested in comparing:[sblock=Chitin]Difficult to work and dangerous to obtain, the exoskeletons of massive insects are still used to construct weapons and armor, especially in areas where metal is scarce. Weapons and armor made from chitin weigh half as much as similar metal items. Although chitin can replace metal in most items, chain weapons such as the spiked chain cannot be made from chitin, nor can chainmail armor or chain shirts.

Giant insects and similar creatures are the only sources of chitin plates big enough for crafting armor. To provide workable chitin, the creature must have a +5 natural armor bonus or better. Much as they can work choice bits of dragonhide into armor, armorsmiths can make one suit of banded mail for a creature up to two sizes smaller than the source creature, one suit of half-plate for a creature three sizes smaller, or one breastplate or suit of full plate for a creature four sizes smaller. In each case, there is enough material left over to create a large or small shield, one large or medium-size weapon, two small weapons, or 50 arrow or bolt heads, provided that the source creature is large or bigger.

Chitin has a hardness of 5 and 10 hit points per inch of thickness.

*Market Price Modifiers*
Heavy Armor    +10,000 gp
Shield               +2,000 gp[/sblock]
All things considered, I think the system you outlined is essentially better since the costs of chitin armor seem outlandishly overpriced to me. That's just my opinion though.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Take a moment, please, to review the above and chip in with any comments or questions.



Well, since Maelicent is limited to light armor, the medium and heavy armor types which can be made out of the chitin means that he'll be looking to sell the bulk of the materials he harvest rather than seek to have armor made for himself; the exception might be a masterwork buckler. The only other thing he's be interested in is having a masterwork composite long-bow made out of some of the leg segments for himself. The only thing to figure out is how much the materials can be sold for.

Since a craftsman must pay half of the desired item's final price in materials it would appear to be a simple matter to figure out how much the materials are worth. The only confusion lies in the fact that the same materials can be used to fabricate various items, each with their own gp value. For simplicity's sake I'd suggest averaging out the costs of the possible end products to set a gp value for the whole lot.

Lessee... Taking into account that each demonhide item is worth twice the standard price:

2 masterwork suits of banded mail sized for a small creature would cost 1,600 gp.
2 masterwork breastplates sized for a small creature would cost 1,400 gp.
2 masterwork suits of hide armor sized for a medium creature would cost 660 gp.

Averaging out the values of all three armor types, we end up with a cost of 1,220 gp.

2 masterwork light shields would cost 636 gp.
2 masterwork heavy shields would cost 680 gp.

Averaging out the values of both shield types, we end up with a cost of 658 gp.

16 masterwork small-sized shortbows would cost 10,560 gp.
16 masterwork small-sized longbows would cost 12,000 gp.

Averaging out the values of both bow types, we end up with a cost of 11,280 gp.

Adding the three totals together (1,220 + 658 + 11,280) we end up with a total cost of 13,158 gp for all the weapons and armor which can be produced from the two wolf-spiders' remains. Since a craftsman only need pay half the price of an item for the raw materials then all we have to do is divide the final number in half and we get the total worth of the materials for both wolf-spider carcasses: 6,579 gp. Unless you want to consider raw chitin as trade goods, then Maelicent should be able to sell the materials for half their normal price. Dividing our last total in half again gives us Maelicent's final sale value of the materials: 3289.5 gp. Like I mentioned above, Maelicent is hoping to get the local craftsmen to fashion him a small masterwork composite long-bow out of two leg segments (at a cost of 800 gp) as well as a masterwork buckler (at a cost of 330 gp).

Subtracting those two amounts from the final sales value leaves Maelicent with a net profit of 2159 gold pieces and 5 silver pieces. Isn't math fun? 

The sinew will be included in the sale of the leg segments to the bowyers to make bowstrings. Mael will likely keep the wolf fur bits to add to his coat as a mantle to cover his shoulders. He'll try to peddle the wolf skulls to local alchemists or apothecaries along with whatever other organs they might be interested in for whatever the going rate on demon parts is. If there are no takers on those, then he'll probably end up giving one to Vaja and Frane as a trophy for the bar. The other he'll harvest for fangs to add to his own costume.

I don't really agree with your statement that Maelicent is "in unfamiliar territory" and working "with improvised tools". He's been coming to the Cockatrice for the past six months and he's got two hunting knives and a sturdy handaxe on hand to work with. The human city is a little strange, but it's hardly unfamiliar territory to him anymore. I don't know what other tools Maelicent might need, but if he thought he was lacking anything in particular then he would likely have stopped off on his way back to the Cockatrice to purchase whatever he'd need for the task at hand.

As for Maelicent's activities, I think I've sufficiently outlined his intentions earlier.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for looking up chitin armor in AEG.  That's definitely way more than I feel is a good idea to hand out in what is, basically, treasure to a 1st level party.  Thanks too for doing the math on how much we might be looking at in terms of what the spider carcasses might be worth.  While I can do the math, it's the _time_ and _opportunity_ that I lack.  Three small children and a baby at home makes me very appreciative of help on the accounting front.  I'm comfortable giving out the roughly 3-4k in treasure.  Maelicent will have skinned and tanned the carcasses but it was a group effort to slay the things.  I'll leave the specifics of how to divvy up the gold you might earn from the spider carcasses at the hands of the group; essentially, that's a player thing, not a DM thing.  My part is to make sure the math is straight, to account for how long it takes to do the butchering to see if it somehow will interplay with how the adventure runs, and to NPC the sale and manufacture of any items crafted from the carcasses (and this only because no one seems to want to dump skill ranks into Craft (weapon or armorsmithing), or to spend the in-game time messing with crafting weapons or armor).  

Thinking it through, you have a valid point in that Maelicent is not a total stranger to the city.  In going off the mental cues as provided in your textual description of his thoughts, though, Maelicent is still a foreigner in the city but he would at least know how and where to find most things that he might need to go about his daily business.  When I said "in an unfamiliar environment," I more meant that I didn't think he'd butchered anything before in a stable in a city.  The stable is smaller than a woodland clearing, there's the question of whether the beams in the small stable will hold up the large beasts vice using a stout and mature tree in a forest, etc, etc, etc...  

As I see it, we really only have two things left to agree on.  The first is whether Maelicent gets any sleep at all during his butchering or if he stays up all night.  I recognize that you all want to rp, but I also need for everyone to be on the same page in terms of being together, adventuring together, whether you all are diurnal or nocturnal, etc...  What I'm getting at is if Mal stays up all night, then he may end up being exhausted, which comes with certain  penalties as per the DMG.  Is Mal going to be making a habit of staying up all night?  My concern is long-term on this issue.  Let me know what you're thinking on this subject.  The second thing to agree on is the Survival DC for the butchering.  If Maelicent has enough coin to do it, he could stop by a butcher's on his way back to the Cockatrice and spend 20 gp to buy a masterwork filleting knife and a boning knife.  He'd know where to buy the knives and how much they'd cost.  I want to go with a DC 20 because this isn't just your average everyday butchering job.  The spiders are large and have a foreign anatomy.  The special tools (in this case knives) would lend a +2 bonus to the Survival check.


----------



## Ambrus

It's no problem on the accounting front; it's my pleasure to be able to help out in someway. So far none of the PCs have shown any interest in the wolf-spiders' remains or bothered to claim ownership of them. Likewise none of them seemed to care about what Maelicent planned to do with them or offered to help him with the grisly task. It'd be somewhat odd if they suddenly did take an interest in the matter. Maelicent will consider the issue of dividing up the profits on the sales if ever the other PCs inquire about it.

PCs crafting stuff on their own usually isn't a great proposition since they keep moving around and adventuring and stuff. Since making armor and weapons requires weeks of dedicated effort it's not usually something that can easily be done by PCs who are on the move. Trying to accomplish it during the few hours a night the PCs are making camp would simply increase the amount of time to accomplish each task; likely fourfold since the PC would be spending only two hours a day on the task instead of eight.

Maelicent does react a bit adversely to the city but I imagine his reaction to the place was much more extreme in his early days here. He probably did little more than sneak around at night, steal food and spy on people for the first few weeks. It was likely a month before he tried speaking with an actual giant-kin. Although he might come off as rather paranoid and secretive, he's actually mellowed out quite a bit in the past few months. The building interiors aren't really all that different from large caves.

The stables with its sturdy ceiling beams, available rope and convenient assortment of buckets and troughs for holding ichor and organs is actually rather ideal for the task at hand. I figure the wooden supports are sufficient considering that the wolf-spiders don't likely weight as much as they might appear to; insects and arachnids don't have the same kind of weighty body density of mammals. Even if these wolf-spiders are otherworldly, it still seems likely that they're much lighter than they seem.

I don't plan on having Maelicent be entirely nocturnal. In this case I'm simply trying to expedite the butchering so as not to retard the party overmuch. Like I said, Maelicent will likely stay up till about 4 or 5 am and then turn in, waking up sometime before noon to resume his efforts. Unfortunately the goblin only has 14 gp left on hand. Maybe he can pay a butcher to rent him the required knives for a few days or simply pay half now and deliver the remainder after the chitin sales are complete. The DC of the check is up to you. Maelicent has a +6 Survival. If he acquires the knives then he'll have a +8. If you allow Maelicent to now acquire evil outsiders as his favored enemy then he'll gain a further +2 on his survival skill to butcher them. That way, with a +10 to the check, Maelicent can simply take 10 to properly butcher the demons.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Absolutely, Maelicent can declare evil outsiders to be his favored enemy.  You and I had agreed that Mal could wait to declare his favored enemy, so if want to invoke your right to chose, you may certainly do so.  You might do better by declaring chaotic outsiders as his favored enemy, though.  The spiders would fit in either camp, but looking at the long haul the latter choice would go a bit farther.  Also, the primary example of a demon per the PHB is a chaotic outsider.  Devil is listed at the example for an evil outsider.  I personally would count a CE demon as either an evil or a chaotic outsider.  If you haven't already done so, please edit whatever favored enemy you select into Mal's character sheet.  As long as it's outsider (evil) or outsider (chaotic), Mal'll benefit from the +2 to the Survival check.  The DC will remain 20.

Had he enough gold to do it, Maelicent could've bought knives, but getting a Teggestian merchant to rent anything not normally for rent to a goblin is pretty difficult.  Still, not impossible, so I rolled odds but didn't roll well enough.  Sorry, no knives to be rented.  

The first Survival check resulted in a roll of 21, so Maelicent will have completed the butchering of the first carcass in 22 hours of work.  The second Survival check resulted in a roll of 24, so Maelicent will have completed the butchering of the second carcass in 16 hours.  Total time to butcher the two wolf spiders is therefore 38 hours.  And, though it does go against the grain of real life somewhat, the _gentle repose_ will help Maelicent if he needs to leave off his butchering in favor of adventuring.  It'll take some time for the _gentle repose_ to wear off so that the hide can be tanned in the sun, but at least the innards, meat, oils, and chitin won't rot or be eaten by vermin if Maelicent needs to step out for a while.  

Working 10 hours during the first night and going to bed at 5 am, Maelicent then has 28 more hours of work ahead of him.  

I should note that I assumed the +2 favored enemy bonus to Survival for the rolls above, so if you don't go with outsider (chaotic) or outsider (evil), be sure to let me know.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Absolutely, Maelicent can declare evil outsiders to be his favored enemy.  You and I had agreed that Mal could wait to declare his favored enemy, so if want to invoke your right to chose, you may certainly do so.  You might do better by declaring chaotic outsiders as his favored enemy, though.  The spiders would fit in either camp, but looking at the long haul the latter choice would go a bit farther.  Also, the primary example of a demon per the PHB is a chaotic outsider.  Devil is listed at the example for an evil outsider.  I personally would count a CE demon as either an evil or a chaotic outsider.  If you haven't already done so, please edit whatever favored enemy you select into Mal's character sheet.  As long as it's outsider (evil) or outsider (chaotic), Mal'll benefit from the +2 to the Survival check.  The DC will remain 20.




Demons have both Chaotic and Evil subtypes, so by the RAW both favored enemy types apply to them. Favored enemy bonuses for different types do not stack though.

btw and ooc creatures of pure chaos such as most natives from Limbo (like Slaad) would generally be just subtype Chaotic and favored enemy evil will not apply.

For story purposes if you are learning off the spiders their Chaos might outweigh their Evil as far as what you learn from them.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> btw and ooc creatures of pure chaos such as most natives from Limbo (like Slaad) would generally be just subtype Chaotic and favored enemy evil will not apply.




This is a huge jip, IMO.  I'm not quite sure where in the RAW a slaad wouldn't be covered as a favored enemy for someone who took outsiders (chaotic), but if that's the case per the RAW, I _can_ tell you that in *this* game, that is one rule we'll be ignoring.  If it's got outsider and chaotic in its descriptor, it'll fit the bill for a character who took outsider (chaotic) as a favored enemy.  Where does it say that, anyway?  Now I'm curious.  MM 3.5 pg 5 in the boxed text specifically lists slaadi as an example of outsider (chaotic) type.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm going to be late posting today.  I'll be helping a friend who's having car trouble this morning.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> This is a huge jip, IMO.  I'm not quite sure where in the RAW a slaad wouldn't be covered as a favored enemy for someone who took outsiders (chaotic), but if that's the case per the RAW, I _can_ tell you that in *this* game, that is one rule we'll be ignoring.  If it's got outsider and chaotic in its descriptor, it'll fit the bill for a character who took outsider (chaotic) as a favored enemy.  Where does it say that, anyway?  Now I'm curious.  MM 3.5 pg 5 in the boxed text specifically lists slaadi as an example of outsider (chaotic) type.




I think you are misreading my quote. Notice the "subtype Chaotic" versus "favored enemy evil" in the sentence you quoted.   

I was saying a character such as Voadam with favored enemy [Evil] will not get a bonus against slaad who are [Chaotic] but not [Evil]. If Maelicent took favored enemy [Chaotic] he would get the bonus against the subtype [Chaotic] slaad under the RAW.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes, that covers it.  I was wondering what in the nine hells you meant.


----------



## Ambrus

It does seem a bit odd to take Outsiders (chaotic) rather than Outsiders (evil) as a favored enemy; I guess I'm just used to fighting evil rather than chaos.  

Since this campaign does seem to focus on a chaos vs law dichotomy however then I'll defer to your better judgement and take chaos as a favored enemy. Take heed capricious creatures of confusion!


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Take heed capricious creatures of confusion!




Wait, he's not talking about me is he?


----------



## Ambrus

heh... heh... heh...


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> heh... heh... heh...




"*So my theory is that an astral conjuction created a planar rift, allowing the Queen to flee the abyss and enter Limbo. Since the wolf spiders were the servants of her servants and they are fiendish she is probably natively of the abyss and had to flee over some internal politics, perhaps a different lord conquered her old plana layer and . . ."*

"Astral conjunction my left foot! He's a slaad in disguise! Get him!" Wham! "I should be . . ." Wham! Wham! "Getting a bonus" Wham! "on every hit." Wham.

"Damnit!" Wham! "I guess I just need to hit him more times to make up for it." Wham! "It really should work." Wham! Wham!

"*Somebody get this goblin off me*!"


----------



## Ambrus

LOL!

You best just watch yourself there Mister-crazy-talk-from-another-plane...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, will you do a favor for me and go post for Maelicent, saying what time he wakes up, and whether he shuffles back over to the Sniffling Pig to meet back up with the others?  We're basically just waiting on Mal and Lewit to get back from the 'Trice.


----------



## Ambrus

Sorry, I thought I'd made Maelicent's plans clear in my previous OOC posts.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You did, I just didn't want to be putting words in Mal's mouth in your stead is all.  I'll go check in in a minute, if you haven't beat me to it, I'll go ahead and provide text that says Mal appears at the Sniffling Pig.


----------



## Ambrus

Maelicent had no pressing reason to go all the way back across town to the Sniffing Pig; especially since he's got so much work left to do. The people there know where he is. Assuming they want to talk to him about something they can return to the Cockatrice to find him.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

See, it's a good thing I made sure to inquire before I just went and willy nilly posted for you.  I thought Mal would sleep til noon, then head over to the Sniffling Pig.  But you've got Mal continuing on with his butchering at the Cockatrice.  

Edit:  We posted at the same time, or near enough.  You're right, the others can come find Mal when/if they chose.


----------



## Ambrus

I figure it's best to get all the butchering out of the way ASAP instead of drawing the work out over a week or two. Maelicent is hoping that Voadam will have sorted the whole quest out and be done talking by the time he's done. Then Mael can just pick up the cliffs-notes


----------



## Voadam

Do we want to wait a day before Gamad uses the wand? It would give Maelicent time for his carving, Chev some time for investigative spells on the rod and us, and Gamad and Voadam some wizard shop talk time. And we could blame it on the rain.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

hmmm ... OK.


----------



## Ambrus

I didn't even realize we had a party activity scheduled yet. I guess that fact escaped me in all the discourse. Works for me.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's looking like I probably will not get in a post today.  I'm sorry for that, but it's already 3 pm and the day just seems to be running away from me, time-wise.  I'll try for late tonight but barring that, it'll be tomorrow.


----------



## Mista Collins

back from the business trip. checking up on all my PbP. Will post by tonight.


----------



## Voadam

I borrowed your whetstone. Not much else has happened.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Maelicent works from 10 am until midnight the second day on the carcasses, then sleeps eight hours.  He gets up at 8 am, works fourteen more hours until 10 pm, then sleeps until dawn the third day.  He's then done with his butchering and we can assume that the hides and whatever other scraps he saved are laid out on top of the stable waiting for the sun to cure them while he goes about his business.  Vaja and Frane agree to make sure no one steals the spider hides, etc..  

So.  38 hours of butchering done, and Maelicent has gotten enough sleep to wake up refreshed on the morning of the 4th day.  

Day 1 = spider attack at the Cockatrice, investigation around town, Mal starts work at night.
Day 2 = Mal sleeps from 5 am to 10 am, works until midnight.
Day 3 = Mal sleeps until 8 am, works until 10 pm [work is done].
Day 4 = Mal sleeps until pre-dawn.


The party has all of days 2 and 3 to do whatever they want.  Let me know here and we'll get it ironed out in the OOC.  If anyone bought anything, did any research, gathered information around town, or did anything else, let me know so that I can do any rolling I need to do and provide you with results.  Barring that, it is now the morning of Day 4 and we can march onward with the adventure.


----------



## SlagMortar

Brakkus would have been ready to do something by the afternoon even though the rain hadn't let up.  He doesn't have anything specific he wants to accomplish so skipping ahead is no problem.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> I borrowed your whetstone. Not much else has happened.



You should get xp for that.  

Mael will have to make the rounds of the local craftsmen to sell of the chitin and make arrangements for the manufacture of his masterwork composite long-bow and buckler. He'll likely start making short delivery runs on days 2 and 3 as materials are ready and then make the final drop-offs on the morning of day 4. Does that sound okay CB? Also, do the local alchemists and apothecaries have any interest in the demons' soft tissues or skulls?


----------



## Mista Collins

Day 1 Chev will casts both Detect Chaos and Detect Law on the wand.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Gamad will attend his Donkey.
Cast _Detect magic _ on the wand to determine the arcane power within.
And mark the segment with _Arcane mark _ spell


----------



## BRP2

Lewit does very little during the free time. He might take a walk around town, but otherwise, he does very little and stays with Mael.


----------



## SlagMortar

Actually, now that I think about it, Brakkus would like to start training Chop Liver for "Combat Riding".  It takes 3 weeks, which probably has to be consecutive.  If that true, just consider it RP set up.  If he can get 3 days worth, then even better.  Brakkus's handle animal modifier is only +4 so it probably doesn't matter anyway.
Rules quote:


> Combat Riding (DC 20): An animal trained to bear a rider into combat knows the tricks attack, come, defend, down, guard, and heel. Training an animal for combat riding takes six weeks. You may also “upgrade” an animal trained for riding to one trained for combat riding by spending three weeks and making a successful DC 20 Handle Animal check. The new general purpose and tricks completely replace the animal’s previous purpose and any tricks it once knew. Warhorses and riding dogs are already trained to bear riders into combat, and they don’t require any additional training for this purpose.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes, Maelicent can have interspersed his butchering with forays into the city to locate craftsmen who will buy the chitin and to make arrangements for the manufacture of his masterwork composite longbow and buckler.  It's a big city but not everyone was interested in the goods Maelicent had for sale.  He finally finds a small start-up tanner in the Gild district who offers to professionally tan whatever bits of spider Maelicent might want made into miscellaneous items, for a fee of 10 gp per spider.  "I can do it quick, using lime, and you won't have to worry 'bout the rain getting to your skins."  The tanner's shop doesn't have a placard but the human man introduces himself as William Chase.  The real discovery with the tanner isn't so much the offer of his services, but that he knows of an arms craftsman who deals in unusual material.  The arms craftsman is up the street in the Guild district.  His shopfront is narrow but the building is very well-maintained and the shop's lettering out front is done up in polished brass letters affixed to a stone front.  "Halver's Fine Arms and Equipment."  Halver is a large beef of a human man with a braid running down his back and a leather jerkin apron.  

Math.  One masterwork demonhide composite longbow should have a price of double masterwork (600 gp) plus the original weapon cost (100 gp), for a total of 700 gp.  I think your math may be incorrect in that you've got each weapon costing more than that.  It looks to me like you've double the original weapon cost as well, which is something that I don't think should be done.  Let me know.  Perhaps there's something I missed...

Anyway, time-wise, it's going to take Halver one week per item to craft these weapons.  He's a mastercraftsman; the Craft rules are a bit convoluted in terms of silver pieces vs. time taken per item, so I'm going to simplify things and rule that it takes him one week per item.  He'll do Maelicent's masterwork composite longbow first and then will start on the other items.  As you can see, Halver will be busy with this for months.  One thing I want to confirm with you, are you hiring Halver to craft the items for you and you'll sell or keep them yourself?  Or are you simply selling Halver the goods so he can manufacture and sell the finished product himself?

Maelicent locates a respectable armorer in the form of a the bloke who runs the Nickleby Bar armory for the city guard down by the city's Overtegyrn Bridge.  The man isn't a merchant, he's a soldier, but he says he'd like to give the material a crack in his spare time.  Again, he'll make Mal's masterwork buckler first and then will set to crafting whatever else Mal might want.  He's a hobbyist, so it's going to take him two weeks per item.  If you don't want to deal with him, let me know and Mal can go off hunting for someone else in the city.  The guy's name is Sgt. Craig, and he's a human.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Day 1 Chev will casts both Detect Chaos and Detect Law on the wand.




To Chev's detection, the wand radiates no aura at all on either casting.  The thing could be just another piece of firewood for all Chev can see.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Also, do the local alchemists and apothecaries have any interest in the demons' soft tissues or skulls?




Forgot to reply to this...yes, for a flat 50 gp for each spider (or 100 gp total), Maelicent can sell the innards and soft tissues, skulls, etc, to an alchemist or an apothecary.  Any of the temples would be interested in that stuff, as would the city's Tower of Xylla, the rough equivalent of the town morgue and magician's guild.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Gamad will attend his Donkey.
> Cast _Detect magic _ on the wand to determine the arcane power within.
> And mark the segment with _Arcane mark _ spell




Hamor grows lonely and reticent without seeing his master for long stretches at a time; consequently, the donkey kicks at Gamad out of spite the first time Gamad comes around.  The second day, Hamor is better behaved and even seems quite content to chew on the apple Gamad proffers.

Casting detect magic on the wand results in no aura at all.  The thing might as well be a fallen tree branch for all Gamad can tell.  It takes his arcane mark, though.  How does Gamad wish to mark the segment?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> Actually, now that I think about it, Brakkus would like to start training Chop Liver for "Combat Riding".  It takes 3 weeks, which probably has to be consecutive.  If that true, just consider it RP set up.  If he can get 3 days worth, then even better.  Brakkus's handle animal modifier is only +4 so it probably doesn't matter anyway.
> Rules quote:




Thanks for the rules quote!  My God, what a timesaver for me.

It's far and away more expedient if we simply say, "Of course Brakkus can train Chop Liver intermittantly."  In a PbP environment, you might never get a trained horse if we stuck to the rules.  I'm therefore perfectly at home having Brakkus work with the horse a bit here and a bit there until he accrues the required 3 weeks.  We'll roll at the end of that time span to see if the training sticks.  Maybe by then Brakkus will have more ranks in Handle Animal.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2 said:
			
		

> Lewit does very little during the free time. He might take a walk around town, but otherwise, he does very little and stays with Mael.




This is good for Gathering Information and I can work with it, just give me a little time to think on it.  I'll get back to you.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> It takes his arcane mark, though.  How does Gamad wish to mark the segment?



Gamad's personal rune - visible, a small mark of a deformed stone.


----------



## Voadam

Downtime activities:

Voadam will have had multiple things on his mind.

1 get familiar with his new weapons. Sharpening the blades, perhaps setting up a dart target in the bar (its a bar, it seems so natural), perhaps sparring with his new comrades.

2 Learn about his new comrades, learn their histories, get a sense of them as people. Brakkus' family, his desire to serve in the upcoming war, etc.; Gamad's cursed history and outcasting; more of Chev's history. Perhaps while chatting over dice games (I've got that ivory set) and dart, perhaps testing Chev and Brakkus' combat capabilities through sparring, and questioning Chev and Gamad about their magical capabilities.

3 Find out about possible sources of information about the Law and Chaos conflict. Find out what it takes to access the dwarven temple library resources.

4 Find places to buy and sell stuff. Will want to eventually get a 15 gp blank spellbook, and I might need to sell the short sword for 5 gp if I need to. Did the three thugs each have one?

5 Chat about the politics and lay of the land, if there is a map Voadam can get access to so that his knowledge geography can kick in that would be great.

6 Keep an eye out for others interested in the events surrounding the Rod.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Gamad will accomapny Voadam to the dwarven temple library


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> He finally finds a small start-up tanner in the Gild district who offers to professionally tan whatever bits of spider Maelicent might want made into miscellaneous items, for a fee of 10 gp per spider.



There was the fur mantle I'd mentioned earlier. Ooh!... How about a pair of demonhide boots, with fur trim and chitin shin guards? Nothing says bada$$ like demonhide boots! 


			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Math.  One masterwork demonhide composite longbow should have a price of double masterwork (600 gp) plus the original weapon cost (100 gp), for a total of 700 gp.  I think your math may be incorrect in that you've got each weapon costing more than that.



The entry for dragonhide armor in the DMG states: "Dragonhide armor costs double what masterwork armor of that type ordinarily costs, but takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type." It says nothing to the effect that only the masterwork cost is doubled. In fact the words "of that type" tell me that the base cost is likewise doubled. Otherwise why make mention of the type at all since all armor made into masterwork armor has a fixed cost? All of the math I did earlier for the value of the chitin assumes that the base and masterwork costs of the armors and weapons are doubled in full.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> He's a mastercraftsman; the Craft rules are a bit convoluted in terms of silver pieces vs. time taken per item



The time taken is a matter of item cost combined with the item's crafting difficulty and the craftsman's skill. If you like I can try to help you figure it out. Say Halver, a master-craftsman, is a 5th level expert with maxed out skill ranks, 14 Int, masterwork tools and two skilled assistants then his total craft (weaponsmithing) bonus would be +16. A composite longbow cost 100 gp and has a craft check DC of 15 to make; by taking 10 he can consistently get a check result of 26 so he'd be better off purposefully increasing the check DC by +10 to go faster. Luckily demonhide armor "takes no longer to make than ordinary armor of that type; so we can simply ignore the added time to make mastercraft component of the bow. So if we multiply 26 x 25 we get 650; that's the number of copper pieces of the item's value completed in one day. Since an ordinary composite longbow costs 10,000 copper pieces then we divide 10k by 650 and we get 16 days; so just over two weeks. I don't mind going with your 1 week figure if you prefer though.  

I have to admit now, that I did make a small error in my earlier calculations. I thought a craftsman had to pay half the cost of the product for raw materials but having reread the craft skill I discovered that the raw materials costs is actually only a third of the full cost. So the raw materials value of the chitin is in fact 4,386 gp rather than 6,579 gp. So selling the chitin at half price to Halver and Nickleby would net Mael 2,193 gp. Add to that the sale price of the skulls and soft tissues to the apothecary (100 gp) while subtracting the cost of the demonhide boots and mantle (20 gp), buckler and bow and the revised net profit is 1143 gp. Sound good?







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> One thing I want to confirm with you, are you hiring Halver to craft the items for you and you'll sell or keep them yourself?  Or are you simply selling Halver the goods so he can manufacture and sell the finished product himself?



The latter. Mael has no interest in commissioning a bunch of armors and weapons he can't use simply to turn around and try selling them.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> If you don't want to deal with him, let me know and Mal can go off hunting for someone else in the city.  The guy's name is Sgt. Craig, and he's a human.



That's fine with Mael.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Forgot to reply to this...yes, for a flat 50 gp for each spider (or 100 gp total), Maelicent can sell the innards and soft tissues, skulls, etc, to an alchemist or an apothecary. Any of the temples would be interested in that stuff, as would the city's Tower of Xylla, the rough equivalent of the town morgue and magician's guild.



That sounds fine, though Mael would like to keep the fanged teeth from the skulls to use as studs for his helmet, bow-shaft, etc.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> Since an ordinary composite longbow costs 10,000 copper pieces then we divide 10k by 650 and we get 16 days; so just over two weeks. I don't mind going with your 1 week figure if you prefer though.




Thanks, but that was one instance where I looked at the formula to refresh my memory and said, "You know what?  We're wanting to get on with the adventure, let's just call it a week."  So a week it is.  



> I have to admit now, that I did make a small error in my earlier calculations. I thought a craftsman had to pay half the cost of the product for raw materials but having reread the craft skill I discovered that the raw materials costs is actually only a third of the full cost.




I saw that yesterday and privately decided not to mention it.  I'd like to go with your earlier math where raw materials cost half.  As I told Rhun yesterday in another thread, I'm doing a program through my church called 10 Brave Christians.  For 30 days (and my church elected to do this during Lent), some of us are getting up daily at 5:30 am to read scripture, pray, and do some light journaling.  Another part of the program calls for two hours of community service per week, one hour of fellowship and bible study per week, and one unsolicited good act per day.  Yesterday I decided that for my good act for the day, every group I DM would get some DM love from me.  So that's why it takes Halver only a week to make one item and he'll buy the raw materials for 1/2, not a 1/3.  

Regarding whether the weapon cost is doubled, this may be a style issue, but I've always played it that only the masterwork cost is doubled and that the weapon cost is not.  So that's the way I'd like to go on that, too.  It'll mean you'll need to tweak your math, but you should come out the better for it, even if slightly.  If you don't want to bother tweaking the math, then we can simply roll with your original computations.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

My husband is going out of town for three days next week, so I think today I'll take the day off.  See you guys later.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> 3 Find out about possible sources of information about the Law and Chaos conflict. Find out what it takes to access the dwarven temple library resources.




The two dwarven knights standing guard in front of the Temple of Stone's closed doors cross their halberds when it becomes clear that outsiders approach.  Politely but quite firmly, one of the pair of dwarves speaks, "You may not cross the threshhold, lest you be dwarf, or a guest of Drendd."  When Gamad lowers the hood of his cloak to reveal his heritage, the pair of knights both reflexively frown.  One of them openly gawks but the other, the one who first spoke, is better mannered.  "What manner of creature are you?"  When Gamad offers an explanation, the knight shakes his head no.  "You're no dwarf that I've ever seen, nor are you a guest of Drendd.  Be you gone!"



> 4 Find places to buy and sell stuff. Will want to eventually get a 15 gp blank spellbook, and I might need to sell the short sword for 5 gp if I need to. Did the three thugs each have one?




Yes.  A sap and a short sword each.  And if they didn't originally, they do now.    Voadam can find a spellbook to purchase down in the Rivermark.  The gnome goodwife who sells it to him thinks he's a looker, so she charges only 10 gp.



> 5 Chat about the politics and lay of the land, if there is a map Voadam can get access to so that his knowledge geography can kick in that would be great.




Voadam can go down to the Pilots' Guildhouse's steerage down at the docks and look at their maps.  Most of them are mostly related to the sand bars in the river, but there's enough of the outlying lands that Voadam can benefit from looking at them and will come away with a pretty good sense of both the city and the region.  



> 6 Keep an eye out for others interested in the events surrounding the Rod.




No one shows up asking about or looking for the Rod.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2, you still haven't e-mailed me.  I have some info to pass down to you but I don't want to use spoiler tags to do it.  Pop off an e-mail to me, please.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I've gone ahead and dropped BRP2 from the game, so we'll be forging on without Lewit.  A post in the IC reflects this.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Regarding whether the weapon cost is doubled, this may be a style issue, but I've always played it that only the masterwork cost is doubled and that the weapon cost is not.  So that's the way I'd like to go on that, too.  It'll mean you'll need to tweak your math, but you should come out the better for it, even if slightly.  If you don't want to bother tweaking the math, then we can simply roll with your original computations.



Whatever you decide timewise and moneywise is fine by me. I don't mind using my original numbers though if you'd prefer for me to run through them again to take into account your house-rules then I'll be happy to do so. My preference simply lies in having the calculations be correct and consistent. Just let me know your preference.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Timewise, we're already settled on three days.  Moneywise, let's roll with your original calculations.


----------



## Ambrus

Sounds good to me. Timewise, I was refering to the time it'll take the craftsmen to complete their work. Hopefully Mael will live long enough to claim the stuff.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Sounds good to me. Timewise, I was refering to the time it'll take the craftsmen to complete their work. Hopefully Mael will live long enough to claim the stuff.




I haven't seen any signs of evil agents so we have plenty of time, I'm sure.   I'll go apply for a library card while you deal with the demon bug bit leftovers.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> I haven't seen any signs of evil agents so we have plenty of time, I'm sure.



Go check the IC thread. Lewit seems to have suffered an acute case of player absentia leading to NPC attack.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Go check the IC thread. Lewit seems to have suffered an acute case of player absentia leading to NPC attack.



Thus the  ""  

I expect my trip to the library to be cut short, perhaps even before I head out the door of the sniffling pig.


----------



## Ambrus

So I suppose 'now' wouldn't be a good time for Mael to start working on his Lewit-skin coat huh? It'd be a shame to let that silky-smooth hide go to waste...


----------



## BRP2

Er, I'm very sorry about the delay. Maybe you are right, I'm seem plagued with distractions and the last thing I want to be is a bother. Again, I'm very sorry and hope you the best of luck.

Btw, it was a lot of fun! (Hey, don't skin Lewit, that can't be healthy for a goblin ;o).


----------



## Ambrus

BRP2 said:
			
		

> (Hey, don't skin Lewit, that can't be healthy for a goblin ;o).



Neither is catching his death of cold.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

BRP2 said:
			
		

> Er, I'm very sorry about the delay. Maybe you are right, I'm seem plagued with distractions and the last thing I want to be is a bother. Again, I'm very sorry and hope you the best of luck.
> 
> Btw, it was a lot of fun! (Hey, don't skin Lewit, that can't be healthy for a goblin ;o).




Thanks for understanding.  And for what it might be worth, Lewit was pretty odd but I had been looking forward to seeing how he was going to turn out.  Hope you enjoy your other endeavors and that perhaps things run a bit smoother for you without this game to have to account for.


----------



## Mista Collins

I liked how odd Lewit was. I might have to use his personality for a tabletop game a friend of mine might be running soon.


----------



## Ambrus

Lewit was in a close race with Voadam for most perplexing PC in Maelicent's mind. Still don't know why he chose to come and hang out in a grimy stable with Mael while he was busy hacking apart demon carcasses.  

I'll remember him fondly... as a piece of clothing. Hmmm... Snuggly warn human-hide. 

Edit: Oops. Looks like Mael let Lewit bleed to death. CB, it wasn't really my intention to let so much time slip by while looking around for enemies. Mael simply wanted to arm himself properly and check the area before turning his attention back to Lewit. Mael doesn't have any healing skill, but his wisdom is fairly good; he would have tried to patch up the guy if it seems at all worthwhile. They are/were allies of a sort afterall. Honestly I don't really mind if Lewit is mortally wounded and Mael can't save him; I simply wanted to make clear his intentions.


----------



## Voadam

I like our odd bunch, Voadam had theories that Lewitt was actually another not human in human disguise due to his unexplained odd mannerisms.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Edit: Oops. Looks like Mael let Lewit bleed to death. CB, it wasn't really my intention to let so much time slip by while looking around for enemies. Mael simply wanted to arm himself properly and check the area before turning his attention back to Lewit. Mael doesn't have any healing skill, but his wisdom is fairly good; he would have tried to patch up the guy if it seems at all worthwhile. They are/were allies of a sort afterall. Honestly I don't really mind if Lewit is mortally wounded and Mael can't save him; I simply wanted to make clear his intentions.




With Maelicent being a ranger and having a decent wisdom and all, I was worried you would've called for a Heal check to stabilize Lewit, so I just went ahead and had a minute tick by so that he could go ahead and croak.  DM's liberty, and don't worry (but thank you for clarifying for the others).

I thought about having Lewit morph into something odd a la Dter, but decided against it.  Lewit's last words provide an important plot device that the game needs at the moment.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> DM's liberty, and don't worry (but thank you for clarifying for the others).



Ah. Okay. I'll just go ahead and assume that Mael tried and failed to save the poor guy. So what's the check DC to skin a human? 


			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I thought about having Lewit morph into something odd a la Dter, but decided against it.



Eh. Mael would simply have shot him dead if he had; the same thing happened a few days ago and the next thing he knew Maelicent had a giant demon-spider thing fall and die on top of him. If he sees anybody else morph in his presence Mael will err on the side of caution and just start shooting ASAP.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Gamad – *"God riddance of Lewit, he was such a mess and filthy human."*


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I know that Gamad is a transmuter, but perhaps someone else will be able to make use of the charm person spell scribed on the scroll.    

Chev may of course try to cast the 2nd level spell while he's still only 1st level.  It'd be a simple caster level check to get it to go off.


----------



## Mista Collins

Chev hopes there is no immediate use for the 2nd level scroll.


----------



## Ambrus

Beware a helpful goblin.  

CB, regardless of the twin's refusal of Mael's offer of help, the little guy will help dispose of some evidence by pilfering Lewit's possessions (specifically, his thieves' tools, mirror, rapier, dagger and crossbow along with the dagger he dropped and his chess set). He'll be keeping the dagger and one of the goblin pawns from the chess set for himself and selling the rest alongside the remainder of the chitin when he heads to the craftsmen later. Waste not want not.  

Out of consideration for BRP2, Mael will refrain from taking Lewit's hide.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Alright.  Maelicent can get half PHB value for the equipment he sells from a pawnbroker in Teg's Throat who doesn't ask questions.


----------



## Ambrus

Alright. Looking over our previous posts, if we start with my original (faulty) math the profit of the sales of the chitin is 3289.5 gp. Add to that the 100 gp for the soft tissues and skulls along with the proceeds of the sales of Lewit's equipment (52 gp) and we end up with a total of 3441.5 gp. Subtracting the (modified) cost of Mael's new bow, buckler and boots (1035 gp) we end up with a net profit of 2406.5 gp.

Does that sound good to you CB? Would you care to modify the amounts somehow? Could Maelicent get that in platinum pieces?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That sounds accurate and fine, and yes he may get that in platinum florins.


----------



## Ambrus

Alright. After stopping off at Halver's, the pawnbroker and Nickleby's Maelicent will head over to the Pig to check in with his rag-tag group. Thanks for all your patience in dealing with the economic aspects of this stuff.


----------



## Ambrus

CB, is access to the Old City Forest normally bared? Do the locals generally shun it? I ask because if it was conceivable for Maelcient to enter and leave the forest it's the likeliest place for him to have set up kip upon first entering Tegest six months ago. At the time he had no experience with human cities. The Old Forest, if generally shunned by the populace yet still accessible to Mael, would have been ideal for him since he could easily find or make shelter in the natural environs while remaining out of sight of the general populace and yet remaining in the heart of the city.

It's been kind of bothering me to wonder about where exactly Mael's been living since he arrived in this human settlement. If it sounds okay to you, it could be assumed that Mael has a small camouflaged lean-to somewhere in Old City Forest that he calls home. He simply hasn't been there since the start of the campaign since he's been staying in the Cockatrice stables. What do you think?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This serves as a plot device and complements your PC, so yes, sure.  To avoid a dead giveaway of the adventure, I need to limit Maelicent's knowledge of the grounds, though. Basically, there's a keep.  With multiple networks of outer defenses.  The keep is locked up and vacant.  The forest is magical but Maelicent (perhaps due to spending part or most of his time elsewhere in the city at odd hours?) has yet to encounter anything truly terrifying on the grounds.  However you're able to work in and explain the limitation in knowledge should be fine.  

Maelicent's shelter will be near the northern curtain wall.  He found a narrow crack in the outer wall and widened it enough to creep in.  A medium sized or larger creature won't be able to squeeze in, though, unless the crack is made even wider.  I leave it to you to come up with a viable reason why the party passed up trying to go through the crack this morning as they walked around the wall.  Maelicent may have wanted to keep his little secret, or he may've tried to say something but got voiced over.  Perhaps he simply figured that the crack wasn't wide enough for the others.  I dunno.  Just come up with something reasonable, please.


----------



## Ambrus

Has Maelicent noticed anything about the forest that would suggest to him that it was magical? Has he noticed any unusual tracks in the forest? Is there any wildlife there fit for him to trap or hunt? Has he noticed any other squatters who make their home in the forest? If strange monsters are rumored to live there (it occurs to me that Mael himself might be the "strange monster" people are talking about) then what is it/they are describing it as?

Also, as a suggestion, considering that Mael took off running as soon as the woman started screaming you might want to change your earlier in-game post to reflect the goblin's sudden departure from the scene.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Has Maelicent noticed anything about the forest that would suggest to him that it was magical? Has he noticed any unusual tracks in the forest? Is there any wildlife there fit for him to trap or hunt? Has he noticed any other squatters who make their home in the forest? If strange monsters are rumored to live there (it occurs to me that Mael himself might be the "strange monster" people are talking about) then what is it/they are describing it as?




Maelicent has seen ghosts at night on the keep grounds.  Sometimes the animal paths in the forest shift.  And he swears that the trees themselves move from place to place.  There's an old oak in particular that is never in the same place more than three days in a row.  Once it leaned toward Maelicent when he passed by and tried to grab him.  There is wildlife to trap and hunt, yes.  He hasn't seen any other squatters.  Various rumors among the city folk describe banshees, ghosts, undead from a battle 60 years ago, pirates who hole up in the keep and have a secret tunnel that leads unseen down to the docks by the Hulks, dark elves, chimeras, a gold dragon wizard who keeps the citadel locked up to keep out thieves, and a coven of witches who sucked out Michel Edain's soul and imprisoned his lich body in the keep's dungeon.  Most everyone in the city stays the heck away from the place.  Every once in a while a child or curious seeker is reported to have entered the keep but never returns.  Small children in Teg's Throat sing of a pack of intelligent wolves who roam the grounds and protect the forest.  Maelicent hasn't seen any of that, though.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. The place sounds kind of creepy, but considering that he's safely spent most every night for the past six months in the place then it's evidently not all that hazardous, at least not for a goblin. If the strange goings on and rumors keep the locals out all the better. As long as the trees are smart enough to leave him alone then he'll limit his campfires to deadfall lumber. Sounds like a great place for Maelicent to call home; he'll just be one more non-descript creepy-crawly amongst the forest's denizens. 

In his explorations, did he ever make it to the south end of the forest down to Bathmere or is that too far? I'm just wondering where he would likely have gotten access to water close to home. Does the courtyard have any old wells? How many acres does the forest cover? There's no indication of scale on your map.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Just saw your edit...

Maelicent didn't make it south down to Bathmere.  I'm saving that for something else, later.  For water, he probably would have snuck out at night and either gone down to the Tegyrn outside of town or used one of the wells in one of the better homes of the Terraced District.  There are also public wells in any of the city's green areas or market squares.  Teggest is three miles wide (west to east).


----------



## Ambrus

Out of curiosity, why didn't the group simply head east around the keep's outer curtain wall to reach the East Gate rather than walk all the way around the west and north sides of the keep before circling back south? Seems a rather roundabout choice of route to have taken. Just wondering if there's a logic to it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Probably because the Sniffling Pig isn't as far to the south as you think it is.  Being a complete fabrication of Gamad's, it's not detailed on the map and came into existence only recently.

Edit:  Perhaps I should ask where you all think the Sniffling Pig Inn is?  Did I write and then forget some textual clue that places it other than what I have in mind, which is on the western edge of the curtain wall?  If no one's answered here in half an hour or so I'll dig in the IC to see if I can find what, if anything, I supplied.  It's possible that I originally wrote it in somewhere than where I've lately been imagining it to be and that the confusion is due to my own spotty memory.


----------



## Ambrus

I was just going by the trip you described in your IG post. You mentioned that the group started in the south end of the Guild District, close to the Rivermark area. Looking at the map that would seem to be fairly close to the southern-most point in the city.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ah, okay, that's a little bit different, then.  Voadam went to the Rivermark to buy a backpack and then went back to the Sniffling Pig after he was done.  The group wasn't setting out from the market, they were setting out from the Pig.  Or so I had been thinking.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

If anyone is bothered by pronounciation issues, the X in Xylla is a soft "sh" sound.  Shilla.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> If anyone is bothered by pronounciation issues, the X in Xylla is a soft "sh" sound.  Shilla.



Not until you explained it,   I had been pronouncing it Zilla in my head and thinking that was spot on.

A quick rules question.

My understanding is that deflect arrows does not work when you are flat-footed. Is there any way to affect when you are flat-footed? Barbarian dodge only gives you back your dex and combat reflexes let's you make AoOs while ff. I was thinking of getting combat reflexes anyway, would that be close enough for deflect arrows to kick in? If not is there any other way?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Combat reflexes gives you extra AoOs on multiple foes up to your Dex modifier, IIRC.  Is there something else in the combat reflexes feat description that gives added benefits?  I'll research compatibility this weekend and get back to you.  Levels in rogue would be the only thing that immediately come to mind in terms of being flat-footed.  I forget at exactly which level of rogue that ability kicks in, but it might be more levels than you're willing to take.


----------



## Mista Collins

I was pronouncing it Zilla, like in godZILLA, not not as in ZILLAphone. 

This wasn't done in my head. I actually like to read posts out loud when it comes to PBP, unless someone types something like "kjdafahgjh". I just skip over things that make no sense......like most of Voadam's speeches


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Combat reflexes gives you extra AoOs on multiple foes up to your Dex modifier, IIRC.  Is there something else in the combat reflexes feat description that gives added benefits?  I'll research compatibility this weekend and get back to you.  Levels in rogue would be the only thing that immediately come to mind in terms of being flat-footed.  I forget at exactly which level of rogue that ability kicks in, but it might be more levels than you're willing to take.




COMBAT REFLEXES [GENERAL]
Benefit: You may make a number of additional attacks of opportunity equal to your Dexterity bonus.
With this feat, *you may also make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.*
Normal: A character without this feat can make only one attack of opportunity per round and can’t make attacks of opportunity while flat-footed.
Special: The Combat Reflexes feat does not allow a rogue to use her opportunist ability more than once per round.
A fighter may select Combat Reflexes as one of his fighter bonus feats.
A monk may select Combat Reflexes as a bonus feat at 2nd level.

Its great when walking around with a reach weapon and someone jumps at you with surprise. Your reflexes take over and you can smack them despite the surprise.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> I was pronouncing it Zilla, like in godZILLA, not not as in ZILLAphone.
> 
> This wasn't done in my head. I actually like to read posts out loud when it comes to PBP, unless someone types something like "kjdafahgjh". I just skip over things that make no sense......like most of Voadam's speeches




It certainly won't bother me any to know you all have a pronounciation that differs from what I have; in fact, if everyone is thinking of things a certain way, I might as well go ahead and morph the pronounciation to match what you all are using.  Language is user-dependent, after all, not some pure thing to be put up on a pedestal.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Next week, I'll be here to post Monday through Wednesday.  Thursday through Saturday, I'll be at the Hawaiian Islands Ministry conference in downtown Honolulu.  As an extra head's up, I plan to make Easter weekend (April 8th) a four-day weekend, and will be taking both Friday and Monday off from posting.


----------



## Mista Collins

Can I come to the Hawaiian Islands Ministry conference? It sounds warm.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It _is_ warm!  C'mon out!


----------



## SlagMortar

> Its great when walking around with a reach weapon and someone jumps at you with surprise. Your reflexes take over and you can smack them despite the surprise.



You mean like when you are walking through a haunted castle forest carrying a guisarme with combat reflexes?


----------



## Voadam

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> You mean like when you are walking through a haunted castle forest carrying a guisarme with combat reflexes?



Exactly


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> Its great when walking around with a reach weapon and someone jumps at you with surprise.



Personally, I prefer not having someone jump on me regardless of what I'm carrying.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> My understanding is that deflect arrows does not work when you are flat-footed. Is there any way to affect when you are flat-footed? Barbarian dodge only gives you back your dex and combat reflexes let's you make AoOs while ff. I was thinking of getting combat reflexes anyway, would that be close enough for deflect arrows to kick in? If not is there any other way?




What is it, exactly, that you're wanting to do?  Knowing what it is that you want will help me decide if it's acceptable.  

While I wait for you to address the question above, I'll go ahead and comment on the questions you asked me last Friday.  

I see nothing at all in either the flat-footed or the deflect arrows feat description that would prevent a PC from using deflect arrows while flat-footed.  If you know of some rules text that would prevent you from using the feat while flat-footed, let me know.  After reading the rogue entry for uncanny and improved uncanny dodge and seeing that those special abilities don't keep you from being flat-footed but only grant you your Dex bonus when flat-footed, I don't know of any way for a character to truly prevent being flat-footed.  Prior to reading up a little bit this morning, I had thought there was something in the rules that would allow a PC to not be flat-footed, but if there is I wasn't able to find it today.  Maybe someone else knows of some core rule that would be helpful?

I'll tell you a secret...I haven't been counting PCs as flat-footed at the start of a battle before they get to their initiative.  About the only time being flat-footed works in my games is if you're caught surprised.


----------



## Voadam

The highlighted portion of the srd entry for deflect arrows.

DEFLECT ARROWS [GENERAL]
Prerequisites: Dex 13, Improved Unarmed Strike.
Benefit: You must have at least one hand free (holding nothing) to use this feat. Once per round when you would normally be hit with a ranged weapon, you may deflect it so that you take no damage from it. *You must be aware of the attack and not flatfooted.*
Attempting to deflect a ranged weapon doesn’t count as an action. Unusually massive ranged weapons and ranged attacks generated by spell effects can’t be deflected.
Special: A monk may select Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat at 2nd level, even if she does not meet the prerequisites.
A fighter may select Deflect Arrows as one of his fighter bonus feats.


----------



## Voadam

Its a minor point really.

Maelicent winged a rock at Voadam when Voadam couldn't see him. 

I thought it would be cool to catch or deflect the rock with his highly trained combat skills. Similar to the way I see happen occasionally in a bunch of samurai comics like Usagi Yojimbo or Lone Wolf where the hero is meditating but senses an attack and stops it when an assassin jumps them. 

But then I re-read the full text of the feat and don't think it can work that way under RAW.

As I understand it if Voadam is flat-footed or unaware of the attack he cannot deflect the thrown rock with the feat.

I know of no way not to be flat-footed before combat other than high perception skills and good initiative.

Some conditions come close, barbarian and rogue uncanny dodge at level 2 can keep your dex when flat-footed. Combat reflexes allows you to take AoOs while flat-footed.

I was planning on taking combat reflexes later anyway for flavor reasons (combat oriented and martial art trained) and wondered if you would let them have synergy for this type of situation which is similar but not an exact match.

Ultimately it only matters mechanically if somebody ambushes Voadam with a missile weapon. I'm fine with a ruling either way though.

I'm not going to multiclass into barbarian or rogue (wizard for Voadam after 1st), but I was planning on picking up combat reflexes at either 3rd or 6th level.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks, I missed that even after reading the first quote and then again while reading the PHB.  If it'd been a snake, it would've bit me.

What is it, exactly, that you're wanting to do?  A specific question would give me a better chance at a concrete answer to satisfy you either way.  

From the way you've phrased things, it seems like you want to take combat reflexes, then deflect arrows, and don't want to be flat-footed at the start of the round if your initiative comes up lower than the monsters'.  Do I have that right?  If so, I've already let you in on the secret that I haven't been (and am not likely to start at this stage) using the rule that characters are supposed to be considered flat-footed at the start of combat before their init comes up in the count, which may serve to make your concern moot.  Other than that, about the only other time you'd be considered flat-footed might be on a surprise round.  You can mitigate surprise by taking ranks in spot and listen.  I don't know of a way to get rid of surprise entirely.  If you do, please share.  

Will taking combat reflexes and deflect arrows allow you to use deflect arrows while flat-footed?  Not per the RAW as far as I can tell.  Combat reflexes, per the SRD, allows you to react on instinct and grants an AoO while flat-footed.  That's a whole lot different than using it for a defensive maneuver.  Best I can tell, saying otherwise would be a house rule and one that I'm not likely to make.  

But, again, if none of that was what you were wanting an answer for, then please do let me know.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ah, okay, now I understand.  We were posting at the same time just there.  Yeah, no, I don't think combat reflexes will let you deflect arrows at the start of combat.  But I'm open to anyone's rules interpretation that says otherwise.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, having failed a will save, Maelicent should be affected by the forest's doom spell and applying a -2 to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.  I also am uncertain why you have Maelicent's initiative listed as +5 on his character sheet when his Dexterity is 18 and I don't see anything else that would boost it up.  Perhaps I missed something?


----------



## Mista Collins

I think I saw a feat somewhere in a core book that allowed you to act first before being surprised. Maybe it was a class feature. Maybe it was a d20 Modern ability. But I remember seeing it and thinking..._that's interesting._


----------



## Mista Collins

ahhh. Now I know where I saw it. There were two things I recalled dealing with acting first in a round, and they are as follows: 



> *Sudden Action:* Once per day,a Bodyguard of 4th level or higher can force his or her effort to burst into sudden action when the situation calls for it. The Bodyguard can change his or her place in the initiative order, moving higher in the count by a number less than or equal to his or her class level, as the Bodyguard sees fit. The Bodyguard can declare the use of this ability at the start of any round, before anyone else takes action.




The first comes from the Bodyguard advanced class in d20 Modern. Really wouldn't apply even if it were written for D&D. No help there.



> *React First:* Starting at 2nd level, a Negotiator gains the ability to react first when trying to make a deal or mediate a settlement. The Negotiator must make contact and speak to the participants prior to the start of combat. If he or she does this, he or she gains a free readied action that allows the Negotiator to make either a move or attack action if either side in the negotiation (other than the Negotiator) decides to start hostilities. The Negotiator gets to act before any initiative checks are made, in effect giving him or her the benefit of surprise.




This one comes from the Negotiator advanced class in d20 Modern. Again, it wouldn't apply to what you are looking for even if it were written for D&D. Again, no help.

I just knew what you were trying to accomplish reminded me of some sort of rule I saw somewhere. I figured it was probably d20 Modern as I've been reading over those for two campaigns I just started.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks.  Maybe that's where I saw it too.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Ambrus, having failed a will save, Maelicent should be affected by the forest's doom spell and applying a -2 to attack rolls, saving throws, skill checks, and ability checks.



I'd assumed you would apply whatever modifiers you wanted yourself when rolling, but I can just as easily modify my listed scores myself if you prefer. Also, I don't know if the Al-mi'raj have spotted Mael or not but if not then I believe they'll be denied their Dex bonus to AC against his attacks until they spot him behind his tree.

So we're all being affected by a doom spell effect? Is this a common phenomena in the forest or something entirely new to Maelicent?







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I also am uncertain why you have Maelicent's initiative listed as +5 on his character sheet when his Dexterity is 18 and I don't see anything else that would boost it up.  Perhaps I missed something?



Heh. I'm uncertain as well. Consequently I've changed it.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Also, I don't know if the Al-mi'raj have spotted




No, no, no. They are dire Jackalopes.


----------



## Voadam

Dire Jackalope


----------



## Ambrus

I beg to differ.






I never thought I'd ever encounter an Al-mi'raj during my entire gaming carreer. They're in the same oddball category of monsters as flumphs.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I beg to differ.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I never thought I'd ever encounter an Al-mi'raj during my entire gaming carreer. They're in the same oddball category of monsters as flumphs.




Me neither, though in a prior campaign Voadam did have an unfortunate encounter with a flumph once. A Melnibonean/drow type elf diplomat served fried flumph while hosting and Voadam, having no knowledge of what they were, partook. "*Interesting flavor*."


----------



## Ambrus

Truly, I am honored to be given the opportunity to encounter and subsequently slay them.  

I'm certain this battle will be immortalized in verse. *sound of crickets chirping*


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> though in a prior campaign Voadam did



So what's the deal with Voadam? He's a favorite character that you play in every campaign? He's some kind of interdimensional vagabond who reverts to 1st level whenever you start a new campaign?


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> So what's the deal with Voadam? He's a favorite character that you play in every campaign? He's some kind of interdimensional vagabond who reverts to 1st level whenever you start a new campaign?




He started in 2e back when the complete Fighter's Handbook came out. He was a myrmidon kit fighter who later learned 1e martial arts in game and had high enough int to switch classes to mage (we used human rolls from UA for a high powered game). He has a lot of history and I like playing him. I've played him in a number of campaigns, occassionally coming up with explanation stories for why he drops down into lower levels to start again and why he hops from world to world. He's been energy drained a lot, plagued by magic draining chaos rituals, etc. and done a lot of planar and spelljamming travel. At his highest he was a level 3 fighter/20th level wizard in a 1e campaign I played in. In 3e the highest he's been was 16th level almost maxing out the eldritch knight class.


----------



## Ambrus

Wow, that's a lot of millage for a single character. It's good for Maelicent though; he came looking for adventurers and he seems to have stumbled across the penultimate specimen.

I think I still prefer my original theory though; that's he's a certifiable nutcase with delusions of grandeur.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> . . . my original theory . . .




And Voadam's propensity to come up with theories starts to infect others.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> And Voadam's propensity to come up with theories starts to infect others.



Yeah... There are those delusions I was speaking about; only an egomaniac believes that he's the source of everyone else's ideas.


----------



## Mista Collins

Voadam sounds like a character of mine I have yet to release into the PbP world. Someday she will be released.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> So we're all being affected by a doom spell effect? Is this a common phenomena in the forest or something entirely new to Maelicent?




Everyone except for Brakkus is under the effect of the doom spell.    I rolled pretty high for him.  The forest phenomena isn't something Maelicent has encountered elsewhere on the grounds.  He's scouted north of the keep and not seen anything like this.

I am honored to be introducing Al-miraj to some of you for the first time.  I've altered them slightly--they're medium-sized in this encounter, not small.  And one of them should have possessed psionic powers (including levitate) but being that I said no psionics to you all at the start of the campaign I felt duty-bound to leave that tidbit off.  I confess that I _so_ wanted to do the flying bunnies attacking thing.  Ah, well.  Another time, perhaps.


----------



## Voadam

I'm sure Voadam's future barroom tales of fighting giant horned rabbits will increase his credibility.  

CB, I have no problem with monsters having powers we do not have potential character access to, including psionics. I'm fine with whatever wierd mosnters and magic you want us to encounter, even if it is far outside of the core books and draconomicon.

I seem to recall al'miraj from the FF having a gem in their head near the horn, do these have one as well?


----------



## SlagMortar

> Everyone except for Brakkus is under the effect of the doom spell.



Well, I don't mean to brag, but his will save is +0.  


> I confess that I so wanted to do the flying bunnies attacking thing. Ah, well. Another time, perhaps.



Go ahead and bring on your flying bunnies!


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I've altered them slightly--they're medium-sized in this encounter, not small.




Bring them to Gamad, I'll reduce them to small-sized category


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> CB, I have no problem with monsters having powers we do not have potential character access to, including psionics. I'm fine with whatever wierd mosnters and magic you want us to encounter, even if it is far outside of the core books and draconomicon.
> 
> I seem to recall al'miraj from the FF having a gem in their head near the horn, do these have one as well?




Ya know, I wish I owned Fiend Folio, but I do not.  I bought just one book in the last 18 months and it was about two weeks ago.  d20 Modern.    

I'm statting Al-mi'raj from another lovely book I own by the title of The Tome of Horrors.  Since this campaign was originally done up for 2e, I thought it highly fitting to toss in a few monsters from Necromancer's inclusion of some of the oddballs from 1e and 2e (re-done for 3e).  Just hope nothing gets lost in translation from 2e to 3e to 3.5!

I do own an OOP copy of the original FF...are the horned bunnies in there, too?  Never thought to look them up in there...


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Ya know, I wish I owned Fiend Folio, but I do not.  I bought just one book in the last 18 months and it was about two weeks ago.  d20 Modern.
> 
> I'm statting Al-mi'raj from another lovely book I own by the title of The Tome of Horrors.  Since this campaign was originally done up for 2e, I thought it highly fitting to toss in a few monsters from Necromancer's inclusion of some of the oddballs from 1e and 2e (re-done for 3e).  Just hope nothing gets lost in translation from 2e to 3e to 3.5!
> 
> I do own an OOP copy of the original FF...are the horned bunnies in there, too?  Never thought to look them up in there...




I meant the 1e FF, I don't own the 3e one. I bought a ton of books in the last 18 months, but all of them pdfs (My copy of d20 modern is the srd   ). I considered the 3e FF while it was on sale but limited myself to the MMII which I have in hardcover and a module I have in print for my WotC 3e pdfs once they lifted the DRM and put them on sale so they were merely expensive and not both DRM restricted and grossly expensive for pdfs.

I've got the revised 3.5 ToH pdf too. Do you want me to e-mail you the al'miraj stats from there? I can copy and paste without reading the entry.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Sure, that would be very nice.  How much did you pay for the revision pdf?  After reading what happened recently with rpgnow's credit card database being stolen, I'm hesitant to buy anything from them but thankfully I never stored info on their server.  Maybe the download is available for sale somewhere else?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Incidentally, if we can blast through this last bunny, that would be VERY good for you all.  Most of you will level up after this combat and, because it's nearly the end of the month, you'll also be getting bonus XP for being active for the month.  It would be nice if you could have the long weekend to work out how you'll spend your new level increases.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Sure, that would be very nice.  How much did you pay for the revision pdf?  After reading what happened recently with rpgnow's credit card database being stolen, I'm hesitant to buy anything from them but thankfully I never stored info on their server.  Maybe the download is available for sale somewhere else?




www.dtrpg.com. $10 (actually $7 at the time during a 30% off sale). I feel www.rpgnow.com is safe but dtrpg is the other half of the new onebookshelf and has all the same pdfs for sale.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Incidentally, if we can blast through this last bunny, that would be VERY good for you all.



I don't know if it's entirely necessary for everyone to post before we resolve the combat. You can simply run through the remainder of the combat action by action until one of us deals it a killing blow and then call it done. The remaining Al'miraj will get its action first and the next to act is Gammad, who will likely fire another bolt at the thing, and then Mael is likewise going to take another shot. Etc.

It's already wounded, so one more hit should do it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I just checked in and saw posts from Maelicent and Voadam.  Gamad is up first, so I'll wait through today out of courtesy for him.  He may want to do something different, you never know.  I'll have a wee bit of time tomorrow before we leave for the hotel downtown; if I don't see something for Gamad by then, I'll assume he fires another bolt and will post accordingly.  I won't leave you guys hanging; XP will go out before I head out for the weekend.

With regard to leveling up, if someone knows they have something they want or need to ask and they don't want to wait through the weekend for a reply, you might go ahead and ask it now.


----------



## Voadam

How are you handling hit points again?

Same limits for leveling as were there for character creation, i.e. can use core books and Draconomicon for sources. (Too bad the only 1st level wizard spell from draconomicon is evil descriptor. I would have taken a gambling spell, but not an [Evil] one).

My understanding is 1st level wizard gives all cantrips, two first levels and one first level for each int bonus for knowing in a spellbook. Any new spells not gained from leveling (including from fellow wizards' spellbooks or from scrolls) requires expensive ink/component.

I believe I have laid an IC basis for spending skill points on spellcraft, concentration, knowledge arcana, knowledge planar, knowledge religion, and knowledge local.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You roll your HP by hand or use invisiblecastle.com, your choice.  I work on the honor system; if someone cheats, I'll probably find out in the long run because in my experience people who cheat don't usually do it just once or twice.  That said, go ahead and roll HP yourself.  I don't allow for re-rolling 1s on HP.  If you don't like what you roll, then you can have what I roll for you (but if you take what I roll, that's it).  

I'll have a look at the gambling spell from the Draconomicon.  Maybe I can lift the evil tag on it.

You have definitely provided an IC justification for taking ranks in the skills you list, and I appreciate that.  I wouldn't deny someone ranks in skills because they hadn't rped the acquisition, but I definitely enjoy (and will reward) it when players go to the bother of rping skill acquisition.

A 1st-level wizard gets all the cantrips.  He also gets 3 + his Int bonus in 1st-level spells.  At 2nd wizard level, the PC would get 2 new spells of any level he can cast.  Voadam would therefore get 3 + his Int bonus in 1st-level spells; it doesn't matter that he's taking his first level in wizard at 2nd level overall.  And, yes, scribing spells later on can be expensive.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I had a look at _cheat_, the gambling spell from Draconomicon.  I'll remove the [evil] descriptor tag from that spell.  I can see characters using that spell during play, no problem, and don't feel that the spell's use is necessarily evil.  A warning, though...use it a lot and it may result in an alignment shift for your character, depending on circumstances.  Not that that's really any different from most other aspects of the game, though.  

And, Ambrus, I just had to say that I don't know where you dug up that Al-mi'raj smilie but talk about fitting...

Where did you find that thing, anyway?  It's pretty cool.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Brakkus, Gamad, Maelicent, and Voadam have hit level 2.  Since you hit level 2 before the end of the month, I gave all of you your level x 2 in active roleplay XP.  

Mista Collins, I grandfathered in a base of 250 XP for Chev.  I don't want him too far behind the others.  With this amount plus what I'm about to send out for XP to you via e-mail, Chev is 2/3 the way to 2nd level.  Give or take.

Congrats and thanks All!


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

*level 2*

wow ... I got Max hp: Hp for level 2 (1d4+2=6)
Skills - Concen. , Know arcane, Craft Alchemy, Hide, Spellcraft.
New Spells - Burning Hands, Shield


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Good for you, getting max HP.  I don't need to see the invisible castle link, though.


----------



## Voadam

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> New Spells - Burning Hands, Shield



I think one of those needs to be a transmutation spell



> Spells Gained at a New Level
> Wizards perform a certain amount of spell research between adventures. Each time a character attains a new wizard level, she gains two spells of her choice to add to her spellbook. The two free spells must be of spell levels she can cast. *If she has chosen to specialize in a school of magic, one of the two free spells must be from her specialty school.*


----------



## SlagMortar

Brakkus gets power attack and rolled a one on hit points.   :\   Perhaps he will earn the name Brakkus "Glassjaw."


----------



## Mista Collins

Thanks for the grandfathered XP. Give it some time and I will catch up to the rest of them. Enjoy your trip.


----------



## Voadam

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> Brakkus gets power attack and rolled a one on hit points.   :\   Perhaps he will earn the name Brakkus "Glassjaw."




Cheater. No wait. Nevermind. I'd suggest you take the CB re-roll option.


----------



## SlagMortar

> Cheater. No wait. Nevermind. I'd suggest you take the CB re-roll option.



Well, I wouldn't want her to roll lower.  Oh, wait...  Yeah, that's probably a good idea.  CB, if you'd like to re-roll Brakkus's hitpoints, I'd be much obliged.


----------



## Voadam

Does casting a spell from a scroll take the same time as casting the spell normally? Would I be able to use a scroll of feather fall to save someone who fell into a pit? I could not find exact wording on how long it takes to use a scroll when I looked in the srd just now.


----------



## Ambrus

Hm. Looking in my DMG (page 212) in regards to spell completion items, such as scrolls, that "Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and does provoke attacks of opportunity." Taking that into account, then it wouldn't seem possible for you to use a scroll of feather fall quickly enough to save them, unless you'd readied an action for that purpose.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Hm. Looking in my DMG (page 212) in regards to spell completion items, such as scrolls, that "Activating a spell completion item is a standard action and does provoke attacks of opportunity." Taking that into account, then it wouldn't seem possible for you to use a scroll of feather fall quickly enough to save them, unless you'd readied an action for that purpose.




Thanks, too bad. 

I'm not going to have a lot of spell slots so having a few common utility spells and knowing a lot of niche spells that are useful to have in scroll form for the odd situation where they would come into play is the way to go I'm thinking.

Feather fall unfortunately sounds like it just won't work that way, it'll need a prepared spell slot or crafted ring to help out in emergencies.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Voadam said:
			
		

> I think one of those needs to be a transmutation spell



Yep, you are right.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Hey, I'm back from my christian conference and thought I'd pop in here for a quick head count.  I'll check back with you all on Monday about this, but I have a question.  

Who's still into this game, and who isn't?  

Now would be a great time to speak up if you've been entertaining thoughts of ditching this game.  While I was at my conference, God spoke to me and said I'm spending too much time online playing D&D and not enough time doing what he has in mind for me.  I thought, "Man, that sucks.  I hate quitting something!"  But I prayed on it pretty hard and came to the conclusion that I must obey the calling I received.  So straight away when I got home today, the first thing I did was quit every game in which I'm playing, save for Rhun's Omega game.  I don't plan to quit DMing all my games, but I only want to be running a game if everyone else really wants to be playing in it.  Thus the question...are you guys happy with things or can this one be folded up and packed away for posterity?  If everyone wants to continue on, then I can do that with you.


----------



## Mista Collins

I would love to continue this game.


----------



## SlagMortar

I'm definitely enjoying the game and would love to continue, but you should do what you feel you are called to do.  If you see this game holding you back from what God wants you to do, do not keep it going on my account.  Thanks for the game so far!


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

That is your best game CB, I beg thy to not leave it.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Thus the question...are you guys happy with things or can this one be folded up and packed away for posterity?  If everyone wants to continue on, then I can do that with you.




I am happy with things and wish to continue.


----------



## Ambrus

Those of us who've kept posting are obviously enjoying the game. If God is calling you to do other things however, who are we to argue?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Let's keep this one.  I've got this one and Lanai.  I can do that and still have the time I need.

I haven't checked the RG yet.  Did you guys update your characters for 2nd level?


----------



## Ambrus

I haven't leveled (or posted in the IC thread) since I was waiting to see if it was worth doing so before bothering.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That's understandable.  

I'll be keeping this game, so please go ahead and post your update and in the IC.  We've just moved into the game's next chapter.


----------



## Ambrus

Oops. You moved the story along before I could post Mael's response to Voadam. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

No problem, just edit or post again to make things work.  I just saw what you'd written about Rot-root (good one!) and that whole conversation could be while you were hacking at horns or walking along before coming out of the heart of the wood.  Hope you don't change your post because there's some good stuff in there.  Just post again with a reaction to the badger and the gnome.  Edit if you must but leave the good tidbits in, please!


----------



## SlagMortar

Brakkus is updated for level 2.  If you are so inclined, I would take you up on your offer to re-roll Brakkus's hitpoint gain for me since he rolled a 1, but if you don't want to then I'll just roll with it.  *groan for bad pun*


----------



## Ambrus

It'd make more sense if it appeared between Voadam's and your last post, but there's no way for me to squeeze it in there. I suppose you could move your post, but I guess it doesn't really matter much. *shrug*

Since we've been walking north for a half hour, and it's only a half-mile between the East-gate and the northern-most end of the forest, I'm guessing that the group is pretty much in Mael's neck of the woods. Where exactly is the group heading? I take it that the gnome and badger are unfamiliar to Mael?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You're in Maelicent's area of familiarity, yes.  Still heading north, I would assume, since Maelicent's shelter was up in the extreme northern part of the grounds.  No, he hasn't seen the badger or the gnome before.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> Brakkus is updated for level 2.  If you are so inclined, I would take you up on your offer to re-roll Brakkus's hitpoint gain for me since he rolled a 1, but if you don't want to then I'll just roll with it.  *groan for bad pun*





Sorry, I meant to do this but forgot.  Thanks for the reminder.

I rolled 9 for Brakkus on his HP.  Add his Con modifier to that, please.


----------



## Ambrus

But why is the group heading north? Where are they going?

By my reckoning, the north end of the forest between the inner and outer walls, at its widest point, isn't much more than 200 yards deep. If the group continues heading north much further we'll end up bumping into the northern wall.


----------



## SlagMortar

> Sorry, I meant to do this but forgot. Thanks for the reminder.
> 
> I rolled 9 for Brakkus on his HP. Add his Con modifier to that, please.



Well, that certainly worked out for the best.  Thanks!


----------



## Ambrus

I leveled Maelicent. I rolled a 2 for hit points, and increased the skills I thought he'd been using of late; hide and move silently (for perpetually sneaking about), spot and listen (for remaining watchful and vigilant when observing the party), survival (for butchering his kills and living in the Old Forest). I can't easily see anything that fits for the last point. Knowledge (the planes) or knowledge (history) might work, but they're cross-class for a ranger. I tentatively put the point in Knowledge (geography) since Mael has learned a bit about the larger world while listening to the others talk about their origins. Suggestions are welcome however.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

It is a custom to greet you all.
Happy Passover.


----------



## Ambrus

Happy Passover Strahd. Mazal Tov?


----------



## SlagMortar

Indeed, happy Passover, Strahd.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Happy Passover Strahd. Mazal Tov?



No, you say mazal tov in hebrew when someone celebrate his birthday or is getting married.
You need to say "Hag Same'ah" - meaning happy holiday.


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> No, you say mazal tov in hebrew when someone celebrate his birthday or is getting married.



I know it translates to "good luck" and is usually used to mean "congratulations" but I've never been clear on when it's appropriate to use it, hence the ?

I've heard "mazal tov" used by jews for everything from celebrating a briss, to a wedding, to a bar mitvah to wishing someone a happy Rosh Hashana. I am afraid I've never heard "Hag Same'ah" though. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Happy Passover, Strahd.  What will you do to commemorate Passover this year?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I can't easily see anything that fits for the last point. Knowledge (the planes) or knowledge (history) might work, but they're cross-class for a ranger. I tentatively put the point in Knowledge (geography) since Mael has learned a bit about the larger world while listening to the others talk about their origins. Suggestions are welcome however.




Since you rolled 2 for Mael's HP, do you want to take what I rolled for him?  I'm not sayin' I didn't roll a 1, but I did roll _something_ and it's yours if you want it.   

Knowledge (dungeoneering) is a class skill for a ranger that might come in handy very soon.  After that, I should think ranks in Search, or Knowledge (nature) might do you in good stead.  I was surprised to see that Maelicent didn't have any ranks in Nature while he was 1st level.  But, that said, dungeoneering will shortly be a useful skill.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm rather fond of my 2, but I'll take whatever you rolled instead; you know, just to make you happy. I'm such a pushover...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I rolled a 5 for Maelicent on HP.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Happy Passover, Strahd.  What will you do to commemorate Passover this year?



We are doing the "seder" feast and that's all.
I'm not a religious guy so my holiday ends after the custom feast.
But it's a week holiday from University and job so … we are all (Friends and others) going to a local national park to do "On the fire" – means Bar-B-Q


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I rolled a 5 for Maelicent on HP.



Thanks. You know, maybe you should just roll hit points on our behalf; you seem generally better at it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> We are doing the "seder" feast and that's all.
> I'm not a religious guy so my holiday ends after the custom feast.
> But it's a week holiday from University and job so … we are all (Friends and others) going to a local national park to do "On the fire" – means Bar-B-Q




Our presbyterian church did seder last year; it was really interesting.  My husband was deployed during that time so he missed it, but I went with my children and we had a good time.  This year our church isn't doing seder, but we'll have a Maundy Thursday service, a Good Friday service, an Easter sunrise service, and then a regular Easter service at 9 am.  That's a lot of services to go to and while I'd like to attend them all, our baby really needs to be in bed at a certain hour, so probably we'll just do the Easter morning service.  Or maybe my husband will take the three older kids to the Good Friday service or something.   

Have a great time with your week off, and I hope you enjoy your BBQ.  Mmmm, BBQ.  What kind of food will you grill?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Thanks. You know, maybe you should just roll hit points on our behalf; you seem generally better at it.




I tend to roll really well in spurts.  And then really badly in spurts.    You all should probably continue to roll your HP for future levels.


----------



## Mista Collins

I think I may have jinxed the state of Michigan when I pulled out the grill earlier this week. We are now hovering around 32-25 degree weather after having close to 70 the day I brought out the grill. But the food was delicious.


----------



## Voadam

Hp roll 3 http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=957353 +2 for con = 5. I'll keep it.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Have a great time with your week off, and I hope you enjoy your BBQ.  Mmmm, BBQ.  What kind of food will you grill?




Lamb, beef, chicken for the meat part.
Lots of Humus and other kinds of salads.
and Pita bread.


----------



## Mista Collins

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Lamb, beef, chicken for the meat part.
> Lots of Humus and other kinds of salads.
> and Pita bread.




All of which sounds delicious. Want to send leftovers to me?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

How do you grill the lamb?  I do something for lamb here at home on the grill that's pretty good, but I'd love to know how you do yours.  If you're the one doing the cooking, that is.


----------



## Ambrus

Mmm... Gnome-kabobs...


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Spiced Lamb shishliks (Paprika and other)

Mista - I'll send some by air mail, hope it wont rot


----------



## Voadam

Mista Collins, I'm not sure of the distance from Port Huron but if it is feasible just head down to Dearborn for the evening and every third restaurant you come across should be able to provide similar meals.   

We're going to be doing a big lamb roast for our Easter Sunday dinner too. Unfortunately no grilling allowed on our condo patio and it is going to be too cold for going to a park to grill, so it will be an oven roast.


----------



## Mista Collins

I actually almost moved to Dearborn because it would have cut down my commute to work in Southfield down a little bit. I would of had a lot of lamb if I were to go down there (or a lot of burgers @ Miller's... they are so delicious) I just ended up getting a place in Farmington Hills.

If you are from the Metro Detroit area, do you know anyone who has room for one more in a table top game?


----------



## Voadam

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> I actually almost moved to Dearborn because it would have cut down my commute to work in Southfield down a little bit. I would of had a lot of lamb if I were to go down there (or a lot of burgers @ Miller's... they are so delicious) I just ended up getting a place in Farmington Hills.
> 
> If you are from the Metro Detroit area, do you know anyone who has room for one more in a table top game?




I'm on the East Coast and not from there, though I have about 30 second cousins and a bunch of in-laws who are. None of them game to my knowledge though.


----------



## Mista Collins

oh shucks. I guess it's time for them to get a new hobby!


----------



## Voadam

CB, having gone up a level in wizard, are my new spells ones I have prepared or do I need to wait a time to prepare some, perhaps in the gnome hole? This would allow me to prepare mending for Chev.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Go ahead and have the new spells prepared now.  It can take forever in a PbP environment to get to the "next" day in the game, so you might as well enjoy the benefits of 2nd level now vice next month.


----------



## Ambrus

And so begins Voadam's return to the heights of phenomenal cosmic power!


----------



## Voadam

Beware for I now have the power of prestigit . . . , press tie dijj, . . . of magic.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> prestigit . . . , press tie dijj, . . .



Damn... I used to know this.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm glad to know I'm not the only one who can't pronounce prest...prestiti...prestidigi...


----------



## Voadam

Press tie digit tay shun?

Press ti (tin -n) digit tay shun?

Press tid (tin with a d instead of an n) idgjit ay shun?


----------



## SlagMortar

Prestidigitation


----------



## Ambrus

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> Prestidigitation




Show-off!


----------



## Voadam

*Nahal's Reckless Dweomer, all right!*

CB [sblock]Voadam once invaded the lair of a pair of green dragons who were practitioners of Wild Magic from the 2e Tome of Magic. Though the dragons were absent they had wild magic traps and Voadam learned about some of their spells including Nahal's Reckless Dweomer. The world was a homebrew with elements of Stormbringer/Warhammer Chaos so Wildmagic tapped directly into Chaos and was therefore more dangerous and corrupting than in standard D&D with risks of Chaos taint and insanity.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Since it's an old school module, I thought maybe I should kick in some old school spells.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, I'm sure you know that taking 20 on a room 10 x 50 will take quite some time.  At 2 minutes per 5 ft square, it'll take 40 minutes to do the whole cave.  The others may well figure out how to get in in the interim, so if it works out that someone else discovers the gnomes' cubby while Maelicent is making his very thorough scour of the cave, please be prepared.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

XP has been sent via e-mail.  A story award for completion of a chapter.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Chev is Level 2!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I totally agree that the cave would have been perfect for Maelicent's lair.  Unfortunately, someone else had earlier laid claim on the cave.  The DM!


----------



## Voadam

Are the gnomes waiting for us to lower them a rope or for us to make it in the cave safely before they leave?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

They're waiting for you guys to make it safely in the cave.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm aware of how long it would take to take 20 to search the whole room. That's why I specified that Mael would keep searching until he either found the cache or eventually took 20. If he simply spends 1 round in each 5-ft. square performing a cursory search then he should be able to sweep the entire room once every two minutes. If the search DC to find the cubby is less than 30, chances are that Mael will find it during an earlier sweep than if he spends 2 minutes in each square. I'm just playing the odds. Hopefully luck is on Mael's side and he'll stumble across it during his second, third or tenth sweep... 

If the party finds their own way in before then, then all the better. 

Stupid mongrel gnomes and their ridiculous hidden caches.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

A'ight.  Just checking, thanks.


----------



## Mista Collins

Chev level two? YAY!!

I'll update his info later tomorrow. I just got home from a trip up to Northern Michigan and moved into a new place last weekend.


----------



## Voadam

Search +7, I'm going in as back up. Gamad reduced back up.


----------



## Voadam

So I get a +2 (+1 from increased dex, +1 from size) on attacks for throwing darts, but they do -1 damage from the decreased strength, but they then spring back to full size when I throw them for no decrease in dart base die used for damage. Sounds cool.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yeah, whacky.  

Is there errata for that spell?


----------



## Ambrus

LOL. If people continue to exemplify Mael's incompetence the little bugger is going to end up killing something.  

Maybe he's neer-sighted or something.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I saw Argent Silvermage on the General RPG boards here on EN World recently, so I e-mailed him and inquired whether he still wanted me to continue to hold his place in this game.  He said he was well but that he was busy, so I am officially removing his placeholder.  Pilgrim might be encountered later (I thought he was an interesting little kobold knight) but only as an NPC.  

Fair winds, Argent!

What is the concensus in here regarding keeping the number of players at 5 vice recruiting someone else?  We've lost the primary rogue.  You can probably do without a rogue for a while if you go where I think you'll go, but you might need those skills later.  If you are all comfortable with one another and do not want to add a 6th, let me know and we'll find a work-around.


----------



## Ambrus

I prefer fewer characters; four to five is fine by me. It's easier to keep track of each character, it's easier to shine and we also don't have to wait as long for everyone to post before preceding along.

I can easily switch Maelicent to a rogue/ranger (or even a straight rogue) right now if it helps out the group; he's got the dex for it and he's already displayed his preference for sneaking and scouting about. What do you think?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

That is my slight preference, and if you would be happy taking levels in rogue, I see no problem with you doing so.  If you are hot for more skill points, I would even go for you switching out your latest level that you just took for a level in rogue.  

Then again, I'm certainly open to hearing every- or anyone else's opinion.


----------



## Voadam

I'm flexible on party size and whether or not we have a rogue niche filled. Maelicent as a ranger covers the scout stealth and senses portion of the rogue niche well, we just don't have the locks/traps and social skills covered (though I feel I can chat up people no problem). I think rogue does go well with Maelicent as you've played him so far if you choose to go that route. 

I don't know if this incident might inspire Maelicent to develop his search skills ridiculously.

Maelicent reminds me a little of Loki in the Sandman graphic novels. Do him a favor and he will kill people you like behind your back to screw with you because he resents feeling an obligation to you.

Party composition/adventuring niches we're pretty good IMO

Brakkus - Tank

Chev - backup tank, healing, clerical magic

Gamad - Arcane Magic little bit of healing (rod)

Maelicent - stealth, senses, ranged combat

Voadam - knowledge, talking, little bit of fighting/magic/healing


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Yeah, whacky.
> 
> Is there errata for that spell?




Its the reverse of the rules for enlarging/righteous might growth magic. I'm used to dealing with PCs getting the reach, increased melee damage, and greater grappling from going big but losing out on ranged attacks that shrink. Seeing the reverse and conceptualizing reduce as a ranged attack buff (with the increased risks for melee, grappling and special maneuvers) is a neat flip option.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Re: reduce person, the benefits make sense when vetted against spells that increase one's size.  I just wanted to make sure I had the right of that regarding weapon and item size when leaving the owner's person.

Re: Maelicent disliking a sense of obligation, I wholeheartedly agree.  At first I took his behaviour as a personal affront from Ambrus; it seemed like Maelicent's behaviour might have been Ambrus thumbing his nose at both me and this game.  In latter weeks, however, I've grown to realize that (despite initially getting off on the wrong foot with me), Ambrus has been providing a pretty darn accurate portrayal of a goblin in a human city.  I'm fine with it; in fact, Maelicent has benefitted from extra rp XP for the good job Ambrus has done with him.

I caveat the above, though, by expressing a profound unhappiness with PCs attacking and/or killing other PCs.  I hope it never comes to that.  The consequences would be unpleasant for characters and for the game as a whole.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> If you are hot for more skill points, I would even go for you switching out your latest level that you just took for a level in rogue.



That's what I was suggesting; though I was also proposing the idea of going one step further and simply switching both current levels to rogue. To be a truly effective rogue Mael would need to really pump up his search, open locks and disable device skills. That might be easier to do if he was a straight-classed rogue. I guess it would depend on whether you feel it's important enough to have a capable trap-guy in the party.







			
				Voadam said:
			
		

> Maelicent reminds me a little of Loki in the Sandman graphic novels. Do him a favor and he will kill people you like behind your back to screw with you because he resents feeling an obligation to you.



I've never read the Sandman comics I'm afraid. I once ran an Anglo-Saxon campaign with the classical Morpheus as a bad guy so I didn't want the comics influencing me.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Re: Maelicent disliking a sense of obligation, I wholeheartedly agree.



Although I understand you guys' opinion, I don't believe it's entirely accurate. Maelicent acts the way he does (along with most goblins I imagine) out of sense of bitterness and resentment towards those he perceives to be better off than himself. He resents the larger humanoid races for killing and destroying everything he ever knew. He resents himself and his people for being too weak to stop them. He resents the people of the city for being able to erect a grand and wondrous settlement that makes the entire Gudwulf tribelands seem like a sad self-delusional joke. He resents that the big-folk's craft-work and skill at magic outshines his people's in virtually every instance. He hates himself for not seeking revenge for his slain kinsmen and for needing the party-members to learn a better way of life. He hates the gnomes for making a fool of him and his woodland skill for living right under his nose for over six months and making his territorial claims all but meaningless. He consequently hates their good-natured offer of aid. He resents himself for not finding the cave or its hidden cache on his own.

Essentially, Maelicent is a malicious festering boil of bitterness; and that's unlikely to change unless he can prove to himself that he's better than all these giant-kin and mongrel-folk at... something... anything. He's seeking to validate his kinsman's way of life to help bring meaning to their near-genocide, as well as his own existence.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> At first I took his behaviour as a personal affront from Ambrus; it seemed like Maelicent's behaviour might have been Ambrus thumbing his nose at both me and this game.



 I'm sorry that you ever felt that way; it wasn't my intention. I hold you, the other players and the effort you put into this campaign in the highest regard. I've been in too many PBP games that didn't go anywhere to make me appreciate those that do.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I caveat the above, though, by expressing a profound unhappiness with PCs attacking and/or killing other PCs.  I hope it never comes to that.  The consequences would be unpleasant for characters and for the game as a whole.



I wouldn't really care for it myself; it wouldn't serve to improve the game or anyone else's playing experience I think. Maelicent may indeed be malicious and full of vinegar, but he does have a grudging respect for the other party members; at least for those who've remained with us (he disliked the kobold and simply thought that Lewit was weird). Maelicent recognizes that he needs them to learn about all the stuff he'll need to rebuild the Gudwulf tribe as an effective and modern society. In the meantime he'll just keep hating himself for it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

While I can't speak for Voadam, what you said just there about Maelicent's bitterness pretty much sums up what I had been thinking about the character.  ...I'd bet money that Voadam thought the same...

Player/owners always seem to phrase their own characters' dreams, motives, ambition, and vices better than do third-parties.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Re: switching out both levels of ranger for levels in rogue...my first inclination is to say heck no, just look at your character background.  The background supports a level of ranger.  That said, I know that many times when I've sicced goblin sneaks on parties in past games, the goblin sneaks have had levels in rogue.  

That said, Chaos can work its wily way into the heart of this game at pretty much any time.  We've already seen Dter morph into Chev.  Please don't extrapolate from that suggestion that Maelicent should or will morph into Lewit, but if you would prefer Maelicent to have levels in rogue then I can certainly work it in.  I'd rather play it out in character, though.  Can you imagine Maelicent's reaction upon finding himself no longer able to do certain things but able to do other things far better?  Any number of possibilities arise, most of them entertaining as all get out.

So, two choices arise:

1.) Maelicent swaps two levels of ranger for two levels of rogue and we play the switch out in character.

or

2.)  You quietly swap 2nd level ranger for 2nd level rogue and we discreetly go about our business as if he has been that way since leveling up.

I guess there's a third choice as well, which is keep things the same and we'll not worry about open lock/disable trap skills until we cross that bridge later on.


----------



## Mista Collins

This is the first play-by-post I have been in where I could get a good understanding of everyone's characters and truly enjoy this game. The details and effort everyone has pt into playing their characters has impressed me. I feel a little saddened that I had to join this game late, but am just happy to be apart of it. It feels like the home games I used to play. I am thankful you didn't drop this one CB.

As for Maelicent, I absolutely love his bitterness.
As for Voadam, I like the way you are playing a character you've had in many games. Now if only we could find him a muzzle   
As for Gamad, taking the law influence and playing to it has been funny.
As for Brakkus, what is not to love about a tank. I just can't wait to see the flail in some more action.

Now, I just need to figure out Chev's dreams/ambition/motives to convey them. But then again, he doesn't know where the path he is walking is leading him either.


----------



## Mista Collins

[sblock=CB]Thanks for the info on Kuo-toa. Out of game that is what I was assuming they meant, but didn't want to get a head of myself and Chev's knowledge check.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You bet, Mista Collins.


----------



## Voadam

Having established in game Maelicent's skills at survival and tracking competency I'd suggest keeping at least one level of ranger. Rogue is a decent class to occassionally dip into for a little sneak attack and a focused 8 skill points of disable device, so most of the character class focus can still be on Ranger. I can see ranger spells as the culmination of Maelicent's quest to learn some magics of his own while still remaining a Gudwulf warrior and Ranger does have search, spot, listen, hide, and move silently as class skills to support the rogue niche as well.


----------



## Ambrus

I wouldn't go for option 1 as presented; Maelicent has enough trouble dealing with regular magic use by his companions. He'd likely freak and flee if he himself was suddenly changed by weird chaos magic. The only reason he's managing now is because he hasn't fully grasped the scope of the forces he's dealing with. He didn't witness Chev's transformation, didn't understand it when it was casually explained and is generally happier not thinking about it too much. When I'd suggested changing to a single-classed rogue it was with the understanding that it'd be a simple cosmetic meta-game change. Mael hasn't displayed any particular abilities that a rogue couldn't have managed just as easily except for the tracking (which could be easily attributed to dumb luck) so I figured it'd be an easy transition as compared, to say, switching to wizard or cleric.

Option 2 is better, though I also don't have any problems with sticking with option 3 either; like Voadam brought up, I'm looking forward to having Mael pick up some magic tricks of his own at fourth level. As I mentioned previously, it's largely a matter of how significant traps and locks are going to be in the campaign. Once one of the wizards learns knock (or acquires a wand or scrolls) then I imagine locks will become a minor issue. If the ten foot pole Mael has appropriated is good enough to detect most traps safely then that might be a minor point too. I dunno.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Why don't we just keep things the way they are, then?  If you (or anyone else) wants to multiclass rogue at subsequent levels that is of course fine.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You guys ready to have your characters sleep for the night or are you wanting to press onward?


----------



## Ambrus

CB, does the pool of water in the back of the cave seem deep? I was under the impression that it was merely a sizable puddle.


----------



## SlagMortar

I was under the same impression.  Even so, between the earlier events in the adventure and the gnomes warnings not to touch or look too deeply in the water, Brakkus fears fishmen may come boiling out of it any second.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The pool at the back does not seem deep.  A sizeable puddle maybe 6 inches deep.  But it does have a drip that feeds it, which means that it's also got to have an outlet.  That, or the water evaporates, but looking at it, the drip rate probably does not exceed the evaporation rate.  You can see the bottom of the pool in patches; it looks like bedrock.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Hey, my grandmother may pass away today or tomorrow.  Or not, God willing.  She's very old, has alzheimers, and is in the hospital with pneumonia...her veins collapsed so no IV is being administered, she's unconscious...that kind of thing.  

Just a head's up, I may be away from the game for a while in order to fly home to the mainland to be with family.  If so, I will pop in before leaving to drop a line to let you all know.

Then again, who knows?  Gma could linger for quite a while longer.


----------



## Ambrus

We'll hope for the best for her and your family. Out of curiosity how old is she?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

She's in her early 80s.  Not fantasically old, but definitely fragile.  I have always been close to her.  My eldest daughter is named for her.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I just checked in over at the IC and saw that you guys seem like you want to keep walking.

Per what Brakkus indicated, I had you all go 200 yards in.  Do you want to walk farther, and if so, how long do you want to keep going?  Ten minutes?  Half an hour?  An hour?  A day?  Until you get somewhere different or see something interesting?  Let me know, please.


----------



## Ambrus

Maelicent is partially nocturnal, well at home in the cavern and in no hurry to stop; he'll keep forging ahead until the giant-kin indicate that they've had enough.


----------



## SlagMortar

Best wishes for you grandmother and family.



> Per what Brakkus indicated, I had you all go 200 yards in.



I'm fine with going in farther.


----------



## Mista Collins

As far as our current supplies will allow us.

And my prayers are with you and your family.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

I'm back.

1. Regarding you gma - Hope she'll be fine.
2. As for Mael - better leave him as a ranger, you can always multiclass later


----------



## Ambrus

CB, Mael will keep about 30 ft. ahead of the party from now on; out of the forward arc of Voadam's torchlight so that he can better exercise his stealth and scouting abilities.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Got it, thanks.  The boards are loading super slow for me right now and have been for the last two hours.  I'll try to hop on in a bit to see if things are faster so I can post using less time.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. Piercers. This adventure is really old-school.   

If Maelicent's plan works, and he can successfully hurt the first piercer (and nothing else goes wrong) then he'll just sit tight and keep shooting until all three of the things fall down dead.


----------



## Mista Collins

Chev is updated for 2nd level. Nothing fancy.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll have a look in short order.

edit:  looks good, thanks.


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=CB]In your last post you said that the piercers blend in too well on the ceiling roof, but what are they blending in with? I'd understood that there were only stalactites along the north-eastern tunnel roof, the one from which the piercers had emerged. I'd figured they'd stopped advancing since they knew better than to enter a cave devoid of stalactites to hide amongst. Is the whole cave filled with stalactites then?

If Mael couldn't identify the three stalactites upon returning to the cave entrance then he wouldn't have entered at all, certainly not if the whole room is filled with such protrusions. He would have simply remained in the entrance and taken 20 on his spot check until he'd found them again. Wandering in without confirming where they were seems pointlessly foolish to me.

Either way, Mael will return to a safe spot near the cavern entrance beneath a ceiling devoid of stalactites and take 20 to spot the remaining piercers in the room and then systematically shoot them all.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]Following your lead, I will put my comments in spoiler text.  Ambrus, the piercers are now hovering in the on the cave mouth on the southern piece of ceiling where there is rock rather than crystal.  Maelicent's natural 2 on his spot check was not enough to beat the natural 15 I rolled for the creatures' hide.  Working with what I had to go on in your last post, in which you stated that Maelicent would enter the room with an eye for picking off the creatures, I posted that he entered halfway then stopped.  With nothing else to go on, and since I'm not able to read your mind or converse in person with you, I had him stop in what I felt to be a somewhat secure location in the crystal cavern.  He stopped and waited to try to spy out the piercers.  Maelicent is sneaky, true, but past experience DMing him has shown me that he can at times be aggressive.  I felt he had the advantage by staying put, so I gave it to him.  And good thing, too, or else he'd have had a harder time saving Gamad.  Apologies if this is not what you wanted your PC to do.  Again, I had limited information and it's the nature of a PbP environment that sometimes things won't turn out precisely as you expect.  My primary concern was not to flay Maelicent but to reward him for his caution, which I felt I have done.  This isn't the first time you've expressed discontent with things, nor do I expect it to be the last.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]







			
				Ambrus said:
			
		

> Either way, Mael will return to a safe spot near the cavern entrance beneath a ceiling devoid of stalactites and take 20 to spot the remaining piercers in the room and then systematically shoot them all.




No, he will not.  You wrote a post, I have replied in context in the IC, and we are going to play from where the PCs all currently stand.  Please reference the map I provided in our IC.  We are on initiative at the moment and I will not be supplying "re-dos" because you are unhappy with results.

If, on the other hand, you mean that on his turn this round that Maelicent will move then try to spot the remaining creatures, that will be absolutely fine.  There is, however, no taking 20 on spot check during combat.[/sblock]


----------



## Ambrus

[sblock=CB]I'm sorry that we seem to keep clashing CB; although it may not be apparent I really don't care for arguing with players or GMs. That's in part why I posted my comments in spoiler format; I don't want to say anything to challenge your rules adjudications openly. I'm not trying to circumvent combat initiative, I simply imagined that, if Mael isn't already standing beneath a piercer and doesn't move that it would largely signal the end of combat since I can't imagine that these creatures will be able to move into position directly above Mael if he's looking up to prevent them from doing so. I'm starting to suspect however that you don't see it that way.

Maybe I'm just not picturing the cavern properly but if the ceiling is bare of stalactites or protrusions (which is how I read it) then I can't figure out how three hanging stalactites are managing to remain unseen. They'd either need the hide-in-plain sight ability or some kind of cover or concealment to take cover behind to attempt hide checks. With an unobstructed line of sight it doesn't sound like they have either so I'm puzzled why Mael needs a spot to check to find them at all.

I recognize that you're trying to be fair with what we write, but I can't help getting the feeling that unless we're exacting in our descriptions, that what we inadvertently leave out is made to work against us more often than not. I try to be particularly exacting in my posts to avoid such problems (though perhaps I haven't succeeded as I imagined I had been) and I tend to get frustrated when I feel my actions are being interpreted improperly. In this instance I assumed that Mael, upon seeing that the stalactites weren't where he'd left them, would simply stop before entering into the cavern – and likewise block Gammad from entering a dangerous area.

The only solution I can see is to be more explicit in my posts. Unfortunately that tends to make posting slower and more tedious. Listen, if I'm causing you or the other players some stress (which seems to be the case based on some things you've posted lately) then perhaps you'd all be better off if I bowed out of this campaign.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

[sblock=Ambrus]Ambrus, I will think on what you said over the next day or so.  I don't want to see players feeling like they have to make ultra-specific posts as to PC actions and movement.  The PbP environment can be tricky in this regard; how much detail is enough, how much is too much?  It could be that my descriptive style and DMing style are not for you.  As I said, I'll give it some consideration.  Are you thinking of quitting this game?  I am certainly not the only person to have commented in the past that I like Maelicent quite a lot; I would be sorry to see such a unique character go.  That said, given your predilection for exacting detail and adherence to the RAW, I confess I have often wondered why you're not DMing full-time.  You seem like a natural for it.

These spoiler tags are clunky.  We can talk more via e-mail if you'd rather.  I mean, who are we kidding?  Who _doesn't_ read spoiler-tagged material, even when it's not addressed to them?  Most people wouldn't do it to be rude.  Humans are just naturally inquisitive.[/sblock]


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus, us disagreeing is silly.  Your pickiness makes me a better DM.  I'd be dumb to lose you as a player.  Not saying we won't get into again in the future, but please do always consider the door open to e-mailing me when you have a beef.

Thanks for e-mailing me earlier.  It's been a long day for me.  I'm going to bed now, but I'll probably reply to your e-mail come Monday.

Thanks again.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Hey, guys.  My grandmother died early Saturday morning, praise God.  I will be flying to the mainland at some point for a memorial service, but am waiting for my Grandfather to decide when he would like to host said memorial service.  Could be this week, or could be mid-to-late May.  I'll likely be gone a week.


----------



## Ambrus

My sincere condolences on your loss. Our thoughts are with you.


----------



## Mista Collins

Out thoughts are with you. Take as much time as needed.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I need a couple of days to get my head together, make travel plans to Viriginia, and arrangements for my child's schooling.  Looking like I'll miss the week of May 19th or so.  I'll catch up with you guys on maybe Wednesday this week.  If someone could make sure this thread doesn't float away off page three of this forum, that would be grand.  Ditto with our IC.


----------



## Voadam

My condolences.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Mine too


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll be away from 11-22 May.  I'm traveling with my 7-month-old infant and expect to be exhausted when I return, so you could reasonably expect me to be gone until the 24th.  Up until the 11th, however, this game is a good distraction.    

Thanks for your kind thoughts.


----------



## Ambrus

It's nice to have you back CB.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks, it's nice to be back.  I like the distraction.


----------



## Voadam

Quick confirmation, darts are not ammunition, correct? Ammunition affects enchantment costs and whether it is recoverable after being used. My understanding is that arrows, bolts, and sling stones are ammunition for projectile weapons while thrown weapons are not considered ammunition.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Rules question for anyone wanting to help me out here.  I don't think you _can_ take 20 on Spot.  Taking 20 on Spot, particularly if/when there's a penalty for failure would mean that you couldn't do it.  I know I've certainly never had a player try before.  Lemme know.  If someone can come up with a page number reference or SRD quote stating you can do it, I'd benefit from that information.  And Mael would too.

Ambrus, I have a time-saver idea for both of us.  Why don't you supply me with default actions and a code name for when you want to go sneaking or scouting?  An example of what I mean would look like:



> Bow in hand and an arrow notched to the string, the Gudwulf peers down the dark flagstone hallway at the pair of stone doors inset into the eastern wall.  Certain that enemies lurk, lying in wait behind the series of closed iron-shod doors lining the hall, Maelicent makes a slow forward advance down the length of the corridor.
> 
> *Scouting* .




In the example above, "scouting" would be a signal to me that you're wanting Maelicent to use Hide +37, Move Silently +48, Spot +4, and Listen +19 while slowly advancing.

Just an idea.  Feel free to tinker with the format to your liking.


----------



## Ambrus

As far as I understand the distinction (it's a subtle one, mostly governing how quickly each can be drawn in combat) you're correct.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> Quick confirmation, darts are not ammunition, correct? Ammunition affects enchantment costs and whether it is recoverable after being used. My understanding is that arrows, bolts, and sling stones are ammunition for projectile weapons while thrown weapons are not considered ammunition.




That is also my take.  Darts are weapons in and of themselves and are not ammunition.  At least in this game.  Ammunition, on a successful hit, is not recoverable.  A thrown weapon, however, could be recoverable.

What is the enchantment price difference?  I imagine it's somewhat substantial, skewing toward ammo being cheaper.


----------



## Ambrus

SRD said:
			
		

> *Try Again:* Yes. You can try to spot something that you failed to see previously at no penalty.



There's no penalty for failing to spot something; at least not unless that something later decides to do something nasty to you, though that's not really relevant to the skill check. As far as I can tell, if you can keep trying again then eventually you can take 20; essentially doing your best to find something that you know for a fact is hiding nearby.

I like your code word idea. I'll think about it and post something in a bit.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Gads, then why aren't more players taking 20 on Spot checks?  There's practically no chance of failure when you take 20.  About the only thing I can think of is that taking 20 takes longer.  If, while you're taking 20, something could conceivably jump up and bite you in the posterior, that's really the only drawback.  I confess, it's a concern.  If Maelicent only ever has to take 20 to be able to spot things, then will anything ever be a challenge?


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

As far as I know there are no "Take 20" on Spot and Listen checks


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Gads, then why aren't more players taking 20 on Spot checks?There's practically no chance of failure when you take 20. About the only thing I can think of is that taking 20 takes longer.



You're correct; the only thing possibly keeping someone from taking 20 to spot is time; it does assume that you're spending two minutes to make the attempt. It's like hide-and-go-seek; at a glance the seeker might not see any of the people in hiding (having failed his initial opposed roll) but if he knows they're in the area then it's merely a matter of time before he finds them all. The only exception is people so skilled or lucky at hiding that the seeker will simply never find them no matter how long he seeks them. The challenge comes in finding the hidden people before they act and run back to home base.

In the case of D&D you have to decide whether a hiding creature will trust in its ability to hide (or that the person seeking them will give up before the creature is found) or choose to act before then. If the hiding creature stays put for two full minutes then that's that. If on the other hand the hidden creature gets nervous during the search then it might choose to give up, flee or attack before being found. If it's any of the latter options, then decide when it'll act and simply roll the seeker's spot check every round until then to see if he finds the hidden creature first.

I'd say that the hidden creature that tries not moving gets to keep its original hide check result and that the seeker rerolls his spot check every round until something interrupts him. If the hidden creature tries moving (either to sneak away or attack) then I'd make opposed rolls every round until the hidden creature either attacks, has safely left the area or is discovered.

It's the same with search checks; if you're willing to spend two full minutes to comb a relatively small 25-ft. square are then it's unlikely that you'll miss anything but the most masterfully concealed details. In this instance, Mael has good reason to believe that there's a piercer present so he'll take 2 full minutes to scan, in painstaking effort, every part of the room he can see. If he doesn't find anything then he'll move to a different vantage point and try again until he's covered the whole area.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Excellent analogy.  

Can I take 20 on Hide?


----------



## Ambrus

The SRD doesn't say anything about it either way. I'd say normally not since there's not really any way for someone hiding to tell if they're truly concealed themselves effectively except to test their efforts against an observer. That being said, you could possibly take 20 on a hide check if you had someone to help you, someone willing to act as a spotter who can tell you once you're as well hidden as you can be.

If outside of combat and alone then I'd let someone take 10 to represent the fact that the person hiding is doing as good a job as he can to hide on his own.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

D'you think perhaps that logic works in reverse when applied to Spot?


----------



## Ambrus

I'm not sure what you mean. I'll admit my previous post about Hide checks is largely a matter of opinion.

If you'd like a different opinion here's what the Sage says about taking 20 on spot and hide checks:







			
				D&D 3.5 FAQ said:
			
		

> _"For example, you can retry Spot checks, and it
> doesn’t seem like a failed Spot check carries any inherent
> consequence. Does that mean you can take 20 on Spot checks
> when keeping watch for monsters sneaking up on your
> campsite?
> Well, yes and no. If you stare at the same sight for 2
> minutes, you can absolutely take 20 on a Spot check to get a
> really good look at it. But if an assassin is sneaking through the
> shadows toward you, he’s probably not there for that whole 2
> minutes. Thus, you couldn’t take 20, since you don’t actually
> have available time equal to making the check 20 times against
> that enemy. You’d have to roll your Spot check normally
> (opposed by the assassin’s Hide check) to notice the enemy.
> Similarly, if a check’s success or failure depends on
> another character’s opposed roll, both sides have to roll when
> that opposition occurs—you can’t take 20 and “save up” the
> maximum result. If you hide in the bushes to attack a group of
> orcs that will walk by later, you can’t take 20 on the Hide
> check, since the success or failure of your Hide check isn’t
> resolved until the orcs make their Spot checks."_


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Gads, then why aren't more players taking 20 on Spot checks?  There's practically no chance of failure when you take 20.  About the only thing I can think of is that taking 20 takes longer.  If, while you're taking 20, something could conceivably jump up and bite you in the posterior, that's really the only drawback.  I confess, it's a concern.  If Maelicent only ever has to take 20 to be able to spot things, then will anything ever be a challenge?






> Taking 20
> When you have plenty of time (generally 2 minutes for a skill that can normally be checked in 1 round, one full-round action, or one standard action), *you are faced with no threats or distractions, and the skill being attempted carries no penalties for failure, you can take 20*. In other words, eventually you will get a 20 on 1d20 if you roll enough times. Instead of rolling 1d20 for the skill check, just calculate your result as if you had rolled a 20.
> 
> Taking 20 means you are trying until you get it right, and it assumes that you fail many times before succeeding. Taking 20 takes twenty times as long as making a single check would take.
> 
> Since taking 20 assumes that the character will fail many times before succeeding, if you did attempt to take 20 on a skill that carries penalties for failure, your character would automatically incur those penalties before he or she could complete the task. Common “take 20” skills include Escape Artist, Open Lock, and Search.






> Spot (Wis)
> Check
> The Spot skill is used primarily to detect characters or creatures who are hiding. Typically, your Spot check is opposed by the Hide check of the creature trying not to be seen. Sometimes a creature isn’t intentionally hiding but is still difficult to see, so a successful Spot check is necessary to notice it.
> 
> A Spot check result higher than 20 generally lets you become aware of an invisible creature near you, though you can’t actually see it.
> 
> Spot is also used to detect someone in disguise, and to read lips when you can’t hear or understand what someone is saying.
> 
> Spot checks may be called for to determine the distance at which an encounter begins. A penalty applies on such checks, depending on the distance between the two individuals or groups, and an additional penalty may apply if the character making the Spot check is distracted (not concentrating on being observant).
> 
> Spot Check Penalties Condition Penalty
> Per 10 feet of distance -1
> Spotter distracted -5
> Read Lips
> To understand what someone is saying by reading lips, you must be within 30 feet of the speaker, be able to see him or her speak, and understand the speaker’s language. (This use of the skill is language-dependent.) The base DC is 15, but it increases for complex speech or an inarticulate speaker. You must maintain a line of sight to the lips being read.
> 
> If your Spot check succeeds, you can understand the general content of a minute’s worth of speaking, but you usually still miss certain details. If the check fails by 4 or less, you can’t read the speaker’s lips. If the check fails by 5 or more, you draw some incorrect conclusion about the speech. The check is rolled secretly in this case, so that you don’t know whether you succeeded or missed by 5.
> 
> See also: epic usages of Spot.
> 
> Action
> Varies. *Every time you have a chance to spot something in a reactive manner you can make a Spot check without using an action. Trying to spot something you failed to see previously is a move action.* To read lips, you must concentrate for a full minute before making a Spot check, and you can’t perform any other action (other than moving at up to half speed) during this minute.
> 
> *Try Again
> Yes. You can try to spot something that you failed to see previously at no penalty. You can attempt to read lips once per minute. *
> Special
> A fascinated creature takes a -4 penalty on Spot checks made as reactions.
> 
> If you have the Alertness feat, you get a +2 bonus on Spot checks.
> 
> A ranger gains a bonus on Spot checks when using this skill against a favored enemy.
> 
> An elf has a +2 racial bonus on Spot checks.
> 
> A half-elf has a +1 racial bonus on Spot checks.
> 
> The master of a hawk familiar gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in daylight or other lighted areas.
> 
> The master of an owl familiar gains a +3 bonus on Spot checks in shadowy or other darkened areas.




Spot/listen is normally a reactive check, a PC walking along usually gets one shot at noticing a hidden opponent. Checking actively to find things you miss takes actions so is usually not done when in combat unless necessary such as to try to pinpoint an invisible foe. The only consequence of failure is no change in the status quo of not seeing them so no problem there. The only issue is time and whether there are threats or distractions occurring.

I see no problem with spending time to take 20 when not distracted.

Its not going to happen when we are moving or in combat, we don't spend 2 minutes before every move.

I see it happening only in situations like our current one, where we have reason to believe there is another one hiding here because we saw it before and nothing else is going on.

Sort of like taking 20 on searching for traps, I don't see it happening for every stretch of corridor where there could be a trap, only on things where we have reason to expect there is actually something there.


----------



## Mista Collins

*POP! MistaCollins' head explodes*

Do you see spot that?  

I had this discussion with my players once and I just said no on the Take 20 spot. At some point it really isn't a spot anymore, it becomes a search.


----------



## SlagMortar

You can always just make 20 spot rolls.  There's a 96% chance you'll roll an 18 or higher, which is almost as good as a take 20.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This DM's rule zero:  Spot is dynamic.  In some circumstances, which will largely be dependent upon what the object of a spot check is doing when the spotter is attempting to spot it, PCs will be able to take 20.  In other circumstances (during combat rounds, if the object of the spot check is not static in its movement or hiding--just two, for example), PCs will not be able to take 20.  In any event, with regard to whether 20 can be taken, I will adjudicate in characters' favor when feasible, same as I'm already doing for other things.  

Ambrus, this may mess with your character build.  Let me know if does.  I think Maelicent has, at 2nd level, something like +14 to Spot, does he not?  And that's without magic items.  If you continue cranking skill points into Spot, this should eventually cease to become an issue due to the sheer number of ranks and modifiers you'll have in that skill.  It's already pretty darn hard for him to miss spotting something.


----------



## Ambrus

I wish Mael's spot were +14. In reality his two sense skills (listen and spot) are both maxed out at +7. Perhaps you're thinking of his stealth skills (hide and move silently) which are both at +12.

One can never take 20 during combat anyway. So, if our characters aren't being attacked can we still continue making spot checks every round if we choose to? It'd be rather frustrating to suspect that something is hiding nearby and want to keep looking around for it but knowing that we're wasting our time in doing so because we already failed our initial opposed roll. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yup, you can retry.  If the critter you're trying to spot is moving then I'll also be rerolling its Hide, same as you'd be rerolling Spot.  Or Listen, etc..

You've spent a good number of skill points on ranks in Spot so I don't want to make your committment to the skill useless.  I just want for there to be a fighting chance, even if it's slim or grows slimmer the more ranks in Spot Maelicent takes.

Per Necromancer Games' Tome of Horrors, piercers are already good at hiding but their natural aptitude for remaining hidden gets bumped up to +15 to Hide if in a stone or rock environment.  It's pretty hard to see them.


----------



## Ambrus

I appreciate the consideration. There's certainly always a chance of failure, but also keep in mind that our opponents' hide bonuses will likely continue to increase along with the PCs' perception based skills; we're in an arms race without end.

I can also understand that the piercers have a racial bonus to hide checks; please just remember that a creature still requires either cover or concealment to attempt a hide check; otherwise they're trying to hide in plain sight. It's fine that they blend in well with the stone texture of the ceiling but if there aren't any stalactites amongst which to take cover then the wily piercers will stand out on the bare ceiling like a sore thumb.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Agreed, which is why on the newest southernbound tunnel that is bare of stalactites, Maelicent just spied a piercer rounding the corner.


----------



## Ambrus

Isn't the first cave bare of stalactites?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The crystal cavern is bare of stalactites, yes.  The original passageway that you guys had traversed to get down here was rock, as have been the other caverns in this network of caves that Maelicent is currently exploring.  The piercers have been hiding amidst the rocky terrain in the tunnels with natural stalactites.  They've come as far as the entrance to the crystal cavern but have not ventured in.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Gads, Ambrus now I understand why you've been so upset!  All this time, you've been thinking of the rock formation on the western side of the crystal cavern as a pillar while (per the module) the crystal cavern covers A-D squares 1-3 and ends at the "pillar."  The rest of the map is rock and stone.  

Geez.     Sorry.  It never occured to me that anyone would imagine things otherwise.  Maybe I'll start labeling rooms to avoid future obscurity.


----------



## Ambrus

You're right, I did misinterpret the size of the crystal cavern; I assumed that the crystal cavern you were describing encompassed the whole area pictured in your initial map. I'm afraid though that the part that really confused me was how the two piercers managed to hide on the crystal cavern ceiling overtop of E2 if that part of the cave is devoid of stalactites.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ah so.  I had included as much as I did because I estimated (with his darkvision) that it was what Maelicent could see from where he was standing, not because all of it was crystal.  That you thought it was _all_ crystal makes perfect sense though.

As for E2 vice E3, I'm not sure how we got crossed up on that.   :\ Likely I made an error.


----------



## Voadam

Cracking piercers is fun.   

Were there stalactites throughout the stony passageways and not just around this area?


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Voadam said:
			
		

> Cracking piercers is fun.



Being cracked by a Piercer is not fun, Gamad will grumble about it all the adventure, you can bet on this.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> Were there stalactites throughout the stony passageways and not just around this area?




You askin' me or Ambrus?


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> You askin' me or Ambrus?




Since you control the piercers . . .   

And since I can see in the light of the torch I'm carrying I figure I would notice as well. Besides, Maelicent only has one more rank in spot than Voadam does, (though the wisdom difference hurts).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

For some reason yesterday when I read the original question, I misread the wording and took it to mean that you were asking if there were more _creatures._  

To answer your question about stalactites, yes.  The last half of the tunnel down which you all walked to get to the crystal cavern was littered with small stalactites on the ceiling.


----------



## Ambrus

Ah. I'd missed that last part originally; I should go reread the relevant posts.


----------



## Voadam

We've got 3/5 spellcasters who need solid 8 hours sleep by RAW, though I don't need it right now because I haven't cast any spells.

Neither Voadam nor Gamad have taken a familiar yet, and Maelicent and Voadam are too low level as rangers to get animal companions so no guard animals. I wonder if Gamad could get a little Modron as his familiar right now based on the amount of law influencing him.   

I would suggest Gamad take first watch, then Brakkus, Maelicent, Voadam, and Chev, for watches this night. Eight hours between end of Gamad's and end of Chev's watch.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mista Collins, what time of day is Chev praying/meditating/doing his divine thing for spells?


----------



## SlagMortar

The proposed watch order if fine by me.  Note that clerics do not need 8 hours of rest to recover spells.  They just need an hour at the right time of day.


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Clerics meditate or pray for their spells. Each cleric must choose a time at which he must spend 1 hour each day in quiet contemplation or supplication to regain his daily allotment of spells. Time spent resting has no effect on whether a cleric can prepare spells. A cleric may prepare and cast any spell on the cleric spell list, provided that he can cast spells of that level, but he must choose which spells to prepare during his daily meditation.


----------



## Voadam

I had forgotten that until CB posted her question. So then for most days Voadam and Gamad can bookend the watches.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm home all day today with not much to do other than sporadic household chores sprinkled with visits to EN World, so don't be shy about posting (here or in the IC) because I'll be around to reply.

Thank goodness, swimming lessons for my kids finally ended yesterday afternoon.  Daily swim lessons for ten days with little kids is pretty tiring.  For them _and_ the parent who attends.   :\  Considering the ocean is literally _right there_ out my door, I have no idea why we even bother with lessons at the pool


----------



## Ambrus

The watch is fine by me, though Mael would like to make a round trip to the initial battle sight to collect some al'miraj meat and firewood first; how long would that take? BTW, if a typical torch lasts an hour, how many of Voadam's torches did he use up and does he have any left?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

A trip to the al-miraj battle sight?  In the dark in a cursed wood with haunts, spooks, and cunningly malicious trees?  It'd be pretty short, maybe just a quick two minutes.    

Being serious for a moment, that depends of what percentile I roll for the walk.  Could be literally a few minutes, could be hours, or you could get lost in the forest.  Voadam's first torch would have guttered shortly after arriving.  If he wanted another torch on the walk back, he would've needed to light another one.  The second torch would've guttered out 20 minutes before regaining the cave.  Voadam took four torches from Mazzel's chest.


----------



## Ambrus

That forest is Maelicent's home; he *is* one of the spooks haunting the place. He's spent the better part of every night for the past six months out in it without any significant problems. It'd be strange for him to suddenly start acting like it was scary, dangerous or unfamiliar to him.

As to getting lost, Mael knows to follow the curtain walls back and forth rather than trust the trails to stay put. The guy's survival skill has to be good for something. I'm not certain what your percentile roll is supposed to be for.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> That forest is Maelicent's home; he *is* one of the spooks haunting the place. He's spent the better part of every night for the past six months out in it without any significant problems. It'd be strange for him to suddenly start acting like it was scary, dangerous or unfamiliar to him.




True.  The only difference between then and now is that now I'm actually DMing you through things, and that because of that certain...events...are likely to transpire that will be completely new experiences for Maelicent.  I agree, though, if Mael has reached a certain comfort threshhold during his former days lairing on the grounds, that there's no reason he wouldn't think anything of hiking back for the coneys.  

'Sides, it's all just more XP for you guys, right?  Right?  Guys?


----------



## Ambrus

Besides, Mael has a certain _understanding_ with the trees and other spooks of the place. The trees leave him alone and in turn he doesn't set fire to the place.   He remains careful to keep his living self out of sight of the ghosts and in turn they don't take offense at his presence.   See, even goblins know how to live in harmony with their neighbors; it's why they've so often found in those big dungeon complexes with the other monsters. *starts singing _hands across the dungeon_*


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Would anyone like to go with Maelicent to fetch the al-miraj bodies?


----------



## Ambrus

Is it really necessary for someone to go with him? Mael can hide better if he's on his own and doesn't need any light to find his way around. He doesn't plan on bringing all three back; one should be more than enough.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Necessary?  Nope.  

I confess I'm concerned for your PC's safety, however, which is why I paused to ask if any of the others will attend Maelicent.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> the ocean is literally _right there_ out my door,




Blink, blink. 


Sigh.

I do have blooming cherry trees and azaleas when I go out the door to walk my dog and our community unheated outdoor pool is walking distance so its nice here too (though the gang grafitti and vandalism do mar it more than a bit) but having the ocean right there would be great. 

I'm sorry, was there another conversation going on? Oh yes, Maelicent, bring back some branches we can turn into torches on your way back, would you?


----------



## SlagMortar

> Would anyone like to go with Maelicent to fetch the al-miraj bodies?



I'm pretty sure Brakkus would be more trouble than he's worth.  I imagine Mael's pretty scrawny and very quiet, where as Brakkus would be much more filling and with all his equipment might as well be announcing presence with a bell like the ice cream man.  "Fighter!  Get your fresh, hot fighter!  Right here!  For the low, low price of 21 damage!  Fight with a will save spell and get a discount!"


----------



## Mista Collins

Chev has 3 torches.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

*All:*  XP sent via e-mail.  Let me know if you did not receive XP.

Ambrus, I'm working on the scenario Maelicent will encounter.  I hope to post it this evening, late.


----------



## Ambrus

Wow. I didn't realize going to pick up some take-out would be such an ordeal.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Heh.


----------



## Ambrus

Did you ever order pizza and then have a neighbor waylay the delivery guy and claim the food as his? That's what this thing reminds me of.  

BTW, is this critter skeletal or more zombie-like?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Skeletal.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm assuming that sapling in E19 isn't large enough to keep Mael from entering that space. Please let me know if I'm in error.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I forgot to amend the latest map with Maelicent's change in position, but since you're asking about E19 maybe my forgetting is a good thing.  The tree in E19 is actually a young tree more than it is a sapling (but I'm fine with continuing to use sapling in the IC as descriptive text).  Sharing its square isn't feasible, but I do understand that Maelicent's going for cover and will provide it to him if he stands in E20, which is where he is now.  He'll be able to hide and take cover and snipe, getting to do all the things you've declared for him.  Another square that may appeal might be D19.  

Looking at the map, I think the square he's in right now (E20) is actually a pretty good one.  I'll gladly amend the map to have him move elsewhere if you'd rather.


----------



## Ambrus

Yeesh. With their DR and Mael's piercing arrows it would take him forever to deal enough damage to all three rats to bring them down; somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 rounds or so. If this were tabletop I'd probably go ahead and try fighting the rats, but I don't feel like spending the next week and a half playing through it here. :\ 

Ah well, sometimes you win and sometimes you just gotta slink away to fight later.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

This begets the question from my end of whether _Maelicent_ knows that arrows are ineffective versus skeletons.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm somewhat surprised Maelicent didn't dart forward, snatch up the nearest al-mi'raj, then haul tail back to the cave.  Still, I can also appreciate not wanting to draw the attention of a pack of skeletal rats.


----------



## Ambrus

That's up to you I guess; whether it's obvious to an observer that firing arrows through a skeleton's negative space is largely innefective. I don't mean to metagame. By all means, if you want I'll edit my last post and start firing away. He can learn it the hard way.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

If Mal fires an arrow, the creatures will know he's there and he will then lose the advantage he currently has.  If you did just go edit that he fires an arrow, you may want to reconsider and re-edit if you'd rather he doesn't fire so that he can continue with the original plan of stalking away into the night.

I'm not going to insist that you edit anything.  Nor will I think badly of you if you decide to not have him fire.  Three large unusual-looking rats could rightly be considered a valid reason to go look elsewhere for take-out.


----------



## Ambrus

Mael realizes that the second and third rats would likely spot him if he fired; -20 to Hide is tough to manage for anyone. He also knows that he likely wouldn't have more than a surprise round and possibly the following round to act before all three creatures would be upon him. Essentially firing an arrow is a conscious choice to battle all three creatures in close quarters.

I hate backing out of a fight and would almost welcome an excuse to initiate combat with the three undead, but it's hardly a smart thing to do for mere food; even Mael knows that. That's why I typed up that he was going to fall back.

Something I'm puzzled about is the people back in the cave; it seems like it's leading up to a combat back at that end. The thing is, that it seems to be happening an hour after Mael left. Since he's only been gone for approximately ten minutes it seems possible that he'll be back before Brakkus hears something coming up the back tunnel.

As for the moving trees, since Mael's trying to sneak around is it possible that the trees aren't aware of his approach and so don't know where he is or how/when to block his advance? Can Mael see the top of the crag from where he is?


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Yeesh. With their DR and Mael's piercing arrows it would take him forever to deal enough damage to all three rats to bring them down; somewhere in the neighborhood of 20 rounds or so. If this were tabletop I'd probably go ahead and try fighting the rats, but I don't feel like spending the next week and a half playing through it here. :\
> 
> Ah well, sometimes you win and sometimes you just gotta slink away to fight later.




I'm just glad its not the banshee you encountered.


----------



## Mista Collins

Voadam said:
			
		

> I'm just glad its not the banshee you encountered.




No need to go and give the DM any ideas.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> I'm just glad its not the banshee you encountered.



I don't think she really exists.


----------



## Voadam

*I do believe in spooks, I do believe in spooks*



			
				Ambrus said:
			
		

> I don't think she really exists.




I do. I think that a bunch of the seven pieces are around the city and one is probably in the keep. I think we'll be meeting the ghost eventually, though she will probably be an actual ghost template of some sort instead of the very high CR banshee from MMII.

However even the ghost of a commoner could trash our whole party right now unless Chev got lucky on a turn check.


----------



## Ambrus

I was largely kidding. I was thinking of that line in the Princess Bride where Wesley tells Buttercup, in regards to the Rodents of Unusual Size: _"The R.U.S.es? I don't think they exist."_  

As in the movie, I mean to say that I expect that a confrontation is imminent.


----------



## Mista Collins

Ahhh.... Princess Bride. It has been awhile.

*Mista goes and puts it in his DVD player*


----------



## Ambrus

*THE CLIFFS OF INSANITY!!!*

I can't say that without laughing every single time.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I love The Princess Bride.  It is from that movie that my love of dire rats springs.

Maelicent is in the thick of the wood right now.  The trees have spotted him all along.  They moved to create a path for him that lead directly to the glade.  Now they have moved to block his way back and seem to want to shunt him deeper into the woods.  At the moment, Maelicent cannot see either the crag or the curtain wall due to the forest and the trees.  He knows the crag is generally to the north and knows which way north is, but the trees have moved to block that direction.  Maelicent could reasonably be assumed to know that he can cut a path through the forest if need be, but that the trees aren't going to like it one bit and are likely to move against such a measure.  The possibility of continuing to the north exists but repercussions are also possible.  

I hope that's not too terribly vague.  Please ask if there's more information I can maybe shed.

And, to all, sorry for not getting a post up during the day today.  My husband's preparing for deployment and the day slipped away.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I was largely kidding. I was thinking of that line in the Princess Bride where Wesley tells Buttercup, in regards to the Rodents of Unusual Size: _"The R.U.S.es? I don't think they exist."_
> 
> As in the movie, I mean to say that I expect that a confrontation is imminent.




Ah. I see. R.O.U.S.es, Fire Swamp, good times.   

A very good movie. One of the few I have seen more than once.


----------



## Ambrus

How close was the curtain wall he was following before the trees interposed themselves to block his view of it? How large is the clearing he's currently in? How far away did he get from Rot-root and the trio of skeletal dire-rats before stopping? How far away from the curtain walls and Mael is the crag? Is there any wind blowing this night?

It'd help to have a map of the forest with all the various points of interest marked (the west and east gates, the gnomes' burrow, Mael's hovel, Mael's entry crevice, the crag, Rot-root's haunt, etc.) I'm afraid I'm having trouble making sense of where everything is located. :\

Also, could you judge objectively whether Mael might figure out what the tindertwigs are and how to use them? I can't quite imagine how difficult it might be to figure out what a match is...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> How close was the curtain wall he was following before the trees interposed themselves to block his view of it?



If you hop over to the IC and click on the last map I put up in there, look on the right side of the screen where the grid lines end and things go black.  That is the curtain wall.  During his encounter with the rats, Maelicent was 15-20 feet from it.  I have every expectation that he is now within something like 50 feet of the curtain wall--he had been using it to guide himself to and then out of the glade.  



> How large is the clearing he's currently in? How far away did he get from Rot-root and the trio of skeletal dire-rats before stopping?



Not sure, but there should be text in the IC that you can work with.  I'll go re-read in a moment, but I _think_ I said he left the rats and got a little ways north before the trees closed in on him.  This was meant to imply that Maelicent is away from the rats and isn't in immediate danger from becoming a skeletal rat snack.  Rot-root isn't around at the moment.



> How far away from the curtain walls and Mael is the crag? Is there any wind blowing this night?



The crag isn't in view at the moment, but is probably something like quarter to half a mile distant.  Is there wind blowing?  Not under the heavy canopy of the forest.  When Maelicent entered, the air was heavy and still.  



> It'd help to have a map of the forest with all the various points of interest marked (the west and east gates, the gnomes' burrow, Mael's hovel, Mael's entry crevice, the crag, Rot-root's haunt, etc.)



Maelicent hasn't seen that Rot-root, as you call him, has a regular haunt.  The rest of it, I can do for you this coming weekend before I head out of town next week.  When I have it done, I'll amend it as an edit into both this thread and the OP in the IC.



> Also, could you judge objectively whether Mael might figure out what the tindertwigs are and how to use them? I can't quite imagine how difficult it might be to figure out what a match is...



You really don't think he's seen a match before?  It would've been pretty hard for a tribe of goblins in the small-ish nation of Edaesmyd to have avoided all outside contact.  He's probably seen a tindertwig before.  Where skeletons _may_ have been stretching the boundaries of his knowledge, matches probably aren't.  I'll leave that one up to you.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I have every expectation that he is now within something like 50 feet of the curtain wall



Alright, I just wanted to make certain that there wasn't more than one or two lines of trees between he and the wall.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Is there wind blowing?  Not under the heavy canopy of the forest.  When Maelicent entered, the air was heavy and still.



Okay. Again, just making certain.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> The rest of it, I can do for you this coming weekend before I head out of town next week.



Okay. Thanks.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> You really don't think he's seen a match before?



I don't know; they're rather expensive and require alchemical knowledge to create. As such I'd imagine that they're luxury items and not in common usage; especially not amongst goblinoids.

Heh. I've never had an omniscient forest pick a fight with me before. This could be interesting. 

Edit: Now that I think about it, I did have a forest's _spirit_ (embodied in an omnipotent giant of sorts) try to pick a fight with my dragon PC. Didn't care for him much either. What an odd re-occuring problem... :\


----------



## Voadam

How big are the tunnels, just trying to get a gauge on the biggest a creature coming up the tunnel could be.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The tunnel is ten feet in diameter.  When the tunnel deposits into the crystal cavern an hour's walk away, it bottlenecks to a 5 foot diameter but the rest of it is enough for two men to walk abreast.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I'm somewhat surprised Maelicent didn't dart forward, snatch up the nearest al-mi'raj, then haul tail back to the cave.  Still, I can also appreciate not wanting to draw the attention of a pack of skeletal rats.



I just noticed that I'd missed this post. Mael didn't do that because I figured it'd be suicide. It seemed clear that the rat's were waiting in ambush and would likely tear into Mael if they spotted him. Stepping out into the open to snatch a hunk of meat as large as himself wouldn't be subtle. "Hauling tail" with such a heavy load also wouldn't have worked since small-sized quadrupeds could likely outrun a goblin even under ideal circumstances. Essentially the only thing Mael would have accomplished in making the attempt would have been to lose the element of surprise.

So, you never did get around to telling me whether Mael is ignorant of the skeletons' Damage Reduction or not.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

With regard to the DR metaknowledge, when I said:


> I'm not going to insist that you edit anything.  Nor will I think badly of you if you decide to not have him fire.  Three large unusual-looking rats could rightly be considered a valid reason to go look elsewhere for take-out.



I was hoping that would cover it.  

In-game, Maelicent hasn't encountered skeletons yet.  Based on that alone, I should think he wouldn't know about the relative ineffectiveness of his arrows versus a skeleton.  As you rightly point out, however, any old joe might hazard a guess that small pointy-tipped projectiles might run the risk of whizzing through clean air between the ribs of a skeleton.

Re: snatching a dead al-mi'raj and high-tailing it out of dodge, the other two rats were watching the rat eating the bunny.  They weren't watching Maelicent.  Honestly, I did try to leave open the option to have Maelicent snake a bunny from the sidelines and quietly depart.  When you didn't seem to consider that idea, I was surprised but chalked it up to the vagaries of gaming in text.


----------



## Ambrus

My mistake then. I guess I just always expect the worst from the undead.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Ambrus said:
			
		

> My mistake then. I guess I just always expect the worst from the undead.



Tell that to the innocent captives of strahd ... there is no joy in the dungeons of castle ravenloft


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> there is no joy in the dungeons of castle ravenloft



Then why is it such a popular adventuring locale?


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Then why is it such a popular adventuring locale?



If you check out the backgrounds of the characters who adventure to castle ravenloft, you'll understand.
Rangers, rouges and druids are almost always orphans, Fighters tend to lose mama's or papa's so are quite desperate on staying home and do nothing because school is boring, Dwarf and halflings tend to escape orc's and goblin's tribes, Barbarians are banned from their tribes, bards have suicidal thoughts so they tend to leave home and travel.
Clerics are lonely and unwelcome in their own chapels so the abbots excuse them to a "divine mission".
And wizards are lunatics


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> And wizards are lunatics.



Isn't Strahd a wizard?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Another long day here, one that saw my spouse off on deployment.  

My posting habits will probably change.  You all may start to find that I post in the evening hours vice mornings.  We'll see.


----------



## Ambrus

CB, should I assume that nothing changes in the forest around Mael and just go ahead and post his next actions?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

No, I'm sorry.  You've been most patient, waiting.  I do intend to put up a post but I'm short on the amount of time I need to write it.  I have time for quick posts like this one but not to compose what I have in my head, waiting for Maelicent.  It's 3 pm my time; I'm waiting until after 8 pm tonight when my children have gone to bed and I have the house to myself.  Again, I'm really sorry and I know you've been waiting since yesterday.  Deployments always equate with extra chaos here at my house.  Just waiting for the day to settle down.


----------



## Ambrus

No problem; you're family comes first naturally.  

Unfortunately that'll be around 3 am my time so I guess I'll check it in the morning (though who knows, I may yet be awake).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

And I'll probably squeak in something on Saturday--I know I've missed more than I should've this week.  As always, though, no one is under any obligation to check in on weekends.


----------



## Mista Collins

Family definitely comes first. And I just want to say that this is probably one of the most updates PbP I've ever been in. I'm enjoying it.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> As always, though, no one is under any obligation to check in on weekends.



I regularly do anyways. I find waiting till Monday to see the result of my actions rather trying.


----------



## SlagMortar

Is Brakkus' armor ready by the time Chev spots the shadow?  My impression was that a few minutes have passed since everyone woke, but I wanted to check.  Thanks.


----------



## Voadam

Hissing speech. Voadam knows abyssal and orc. Is it either of those?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yeah, Brakkus'll have time to get on his armor.  I'll supply text later tonight to that effect.

The shadow's speaking a language Voadam knows.  I forgot (though I don't know how I could've) that Voadam can speak with Chaos.  Later tonight when I sit down to do Maelicent's scene, I'll edit in the text for you to see.  Sorry 'bout that, but good catch.  Way to know your character.


----------



## Voadam

In character Voadam knows and has killed standard undead shadows but has never heard them make any noise. Ooc I'm thinking of different interpretations of undead shadows that can speak or hiss, shadowdancers, shades, unique shadowy undead, spells that can animate shadows or turn a person temporarily into one, Shade/shadow creatures (
I forget the exact name of the template) from Tome of Magic 3e, shadow demons from the 1e FF/ToH, or the whole class of shadow demons from Slayer's Guide to Demons.

Of course, different strengths and vulnerabilities apply to each different kind of adversary.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Whatchyoo got for Knowledge skills?    

Just kidding.  I'll go look at your character sheet here in a second.  The thing keeping Voadam from knowing more at the moment is that he hasn't moved up to see what's down there.  Or, if you posted for him that he moved up, I missed seeing that.  As far as I could tell, Chev was the only one to actually move forward to take a gander, which is why he benefitted the most from knowing what might be going on.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I put up Maelicent's post.  Considering I just about copied and pasted half of his last post into mine for a recap, I'm embarrassed to say that, yes, my one small paragraph took me 60 minutes to construct.  I did a map too but EN World isn't letting me upload it at the moment.  Got timed out.  I'll try again here in a sec.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> Blink, blink.
> 
> 
> Sigh.




Meant to say something but plumb forgot.  While I'm still waiting for EN World's server to accept my map attachment, I figured I'd backtrack a moment to say,

"Yup.  I live on the beach."    And it's everything you'd expect, too.  A turquoise-and- mottled-blue pacific ocean with world-class surfing, a fine-grained white sand beach, tropical foliage, and the warm sun all day long.  Truly, God is good.

Now, just how long I get to hang on to this little corner of paradise, I dunno.  Might be moving back to the mainland this summer.  We'll see.  'Course, green midwestern cornfields in summer are a pleasure all unto themselves.


----------



## Ambrus

I wonder if I'm the only ranger in the history of D&D to try starting a forest fire...  

Mael's hope is that the flaming streamers of his missile will snag in the upper branches of the closely clustered trees as it arcs downwards. As fiery missiles, precision isn't really all that crucial for this plan. Ideally the streamers will fall across many thin branches and will ignite the forest canopy as they burn. Packed as close together as they are, it's my hope that the trees around it will likewise catch fire quickly.

Is the curtain wall the inner or outer wall, how high is it normally and what's it climb DC? Also, am I to assume that Mael is completely blocked off from the wall at the moment? Line 10 on your map would seem to provide him with a clear approach to it...

BTW, is 'Mallorn' a type of tree or is it a proper name of sorts?


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Whatchyoo got for Knowledge skills?




1 rank in knowledge religion and 1 rank in knowledge planar, +3 for int on both so trained knowledges at +4. Wizard level skill points are all going to concentration, spellcraft, and various knowledge ranks to reflect Voadam's broad knowledge and experiences. I do it to reflect the character's history and actual knowledge though, not really to create skill rolls.



> Just kidding.  I'll go look at your character sheet here in a second.  The thing keeping Voadam from knowing more at the moment is that he hasn't moved up to see what's down there.  Or, if you posted for him that he moved up, I missed seeing that.  As far as I could tell, Chev was the only one to actually move forward to take a gander, which is why he benefitted the most from knowing what might be going on.




I was holding back from the beast thinking to use my ranged necromantic ray of enfeeblement, but with an undead or demon I think I need to step forward with wand drawn to be the wizard face in talking with the demon.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> BTW, is 'Mallorn' a type of tree or is it a proper name of sorts?




http://www.tuckborough.net/plants.html

Mallorn Mallorn-trees by Ted Nasmith 
Golden tree of Lothlorien. The mallorn was a great and beautiful tree. Its bark was smooth and silver-grey. The leaves of the mallorn turned golden in autumn. The golden leaves remained on the tree through the winter and fell to cover the ground in the spring. Then new leaves sprouted - green on top and silver underneath - and golden flowers bloomed on the branches. 
Mallorn-trees originally grew on Tol Eressea, the island off the coast of Aman in the Undying Lands. Mallorn-trees may also have grown in the realm of Gondolin in Beleriand. The Elves brought mallorn-trees to the Men of Numenor and they grew on the shores around the Bay of Eldanna. 

Tar-Aldarion, the sixth King of Numenor, gave silver nuts of the mallorn as a gift to Gil-galad in Lindon in Middle-earth. The mallorn-trees did not take root in Lindon, but Galadriel brought some of the nuts to Lothlorien and planted them. Under her care, the mallorn-trees grew and flourished and Lothlorien became known as the Golden Wood. 

The city of Caras Galadhon in Lothlorien was built in the branches of huge mallorn-trees. When the Fellowship came to Lothlorien in January of 3019, they spent the night in a flet in a mallorn-tree. The next day on Cerin Amroth, Frodo touched a mallorn and felt the vitality of the living tree. 

The Fellowship was given lembas wrapped in mallorn-leaves, and Galadriel gave Sam Gamgee a box of soil that contain a silver mallorn nut. When he returned to the Shire after the War of the Ring, Sam planted the nut in the Party Field where the Party Tree had once stood. In the spring of 3020 a sapling grew with silver bark and long leaves. The mallorn blossomed with golden flowers on April 6. It was one of the finest mallorn-trees in the world and people came from miles around to see it. 

Names & Etymology: 
The word mallorn means "golden tree" from mal meaning "gold" and orn meaning "tree." The plural of mallorn is mellyrn, but mallorn-trees is also an acceptable plural. The Quenya word is malinornë, plural malinorni. 

Sources: 
The Fellowship of the Ring: "Lothlorien," p. 349, 356-57, 363-66; "The Mirror of Galadriel," p. 368-69; "Farewell to Lorien," p. 387 
The Two Towers: "The White Rider," p. 92 
The Return of the King: "The Grey Havens," p. 302-303 
Unfinished Tales: "Of Tuor and His Coming to Gondolin," p. 56 (note 31); "A Description of the Island of Numenor," p. 167-68; "The History of Galadriel and Celeborn," p. 253 
The Silmarillion: "Appendix - Elements in Quenya and Sindarin Names," entries for mal and orn


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> Is the curtain wall the inner or outer wall, how high is it normally and what's it climb DC? Also, am I to assume that Mael is completely blocked off from the wall at the moment? Line 10 on your map would seem to provide him with a clear approach to it...
> 
> BTW, is 'Mallorn' a type of tree or is it a proper name of sorts?



The curtain wall is the outer wall separating the citadel grounds from the city, much the way a curtain separates the inside of your house from the neighborhood at large.  The keep has other inner fortifications that include a stone palisade wall that separates the castle from the woods.  I'm not the sort of DM who normally just outright discloses DCs.  The curtain wall is 70 feet high.  Ten or twelve feet wide at its base, narrower on top by the catwalk.  As such, it's not truly verticle, but it's damn close.  The stone is worked stone and well-constructed with a relatively smooth surface.  From what Maelicent's seen of it, it would be a difficult but not impossible climb.  At the moment, Maelicent is completely blocked off from the wall by trees.  

Mallorn is straight from Tolkien, a blatant rip-off of a semi-fictional tree.  We have something somewhat close to it here in Hawaii with smooth silver bark and a mass brilliant yellow flowers in place of leaves that is in bloom right now.  That's my inspiration for its inclusion.  Mallorns are traditionally associated with elves in Tolkien fiction.  I personally have always imagined them to be good in nature, stewards of the forest.  The one of the map isn't.  I gave it a special, darker green-black color to reflect its black heart.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Oh dear God I am a total idiot.   Despite the fact that I'm the DM, I drew the map, and I placed everyone where I thought reasonable in the cave, I promptly forgot everything I drew and posted.  

For 24 to 48 hours now, I've been sitting here thinking that I put the mouth to the tunnel on the north wall around a bend so that only Chev could see down it.  So when I go to check the map just now to put up a post, naturally I am completely shocked and awed to find that, noooo....in fact, I put the tunnel mouth directly in front of everyone and you all should have benefitted from being able to see!

So sorry, I'll edit in fixes and throw up a post in a few minutes.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

FYI, that was a natural 20 for the fire grenade to hit the mallorn.  Double damage for fire, too.  I used escape artist in place of grapple for Maelicent to get out of the tree's hold.  

When you're looking at the map, please mentally move the rest of the trees ringing the glade outward five feet.  I was too lazy and short on time to adjust the map more than moving the sapling, Mal, and the mallorn.  The trees up against the curtain wall are still where they are.  There is now a gap where the mallorn was standing before it moved.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> The curtain wall is 70 feet high.



Eeek! I was hoping for a more modest 15 or 20 feet. Oh well... 


			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Mallorn is straight from Tolkien, a blatant rip-off of a semi-fictional tree.



Ah. I see. Well, that's all well and good, but how well does it *burn*? 

I can't really tell by the map how many squares the various trees are occupying or what their relative reaches are, so it'll be hard to tell which ones are threatening Mael and whether they're creating any openings by moving around. It might not matter all that much in a round or two anyways... :\ 

I have to admit, I'm taking imense pleasure in playing a malicious goblin trying to burn down an enchanted forest. Reminds me of Blix from the movie Legend. Take that you tree hugging faeries!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Burns quite nicely, it does.  Vulnerability to fire.    

Regarding tree size, I hear you.  I was thinking the same thing when I designed the map.  Basically, if part of the circle is in a square, then the circle should be presumed to fill up all the squares it touches.  I think that puts the mallorn at a 15 foot diameter.  This assumes the spread of branches and the tree's network of roots.  The trunk itself could probably be said to be 5 feet across--which is still pretty massive.  And, of course, the higher up the tree you go, the wider the canopy will get toward the top (more than just the 15 feet it is at the base).


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yeah, I've had players balk at the 70 foot height of the curtain walls before.  It amounts to roughly a 5-storey building.  Or so.  There's history involved, seiges, more seiges, sackings, war...Arrund is a nasty neighbor.


----------



## Ambrus

The height of the wall is fine; it represents a lot of quarying and labor but it's not without it's real-world equivalents. It's my fault for not asking about it earlier.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I think the 70-foot height is buried as a former mention somewhere in the IC thread.  Maybe the OP, even?  If so, it certainly would've been a long time since you might've seen it mentioned.  Then again, I'm not sure about even that.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> At Gamad's suggestion, the companions quit the Sniffing Pig and begin their trek north through the city. Brakkus, atop Chop Liver, leads the way toward Citadel Teglund's nearly 50-foot-high old stone curtain wall. A relic of the city that harkens back to ancient times and has long stood abandoned and unused, the Citadel's upper bailey can be seen from nearly any location inside Teggest's outer city walls.
> 
> The party first treks north through the Guild District, an area of the city notoriously well-guarded by the River Lord's Guard, even at night. As is by now well known to the party members, days in the southern reaches of the Guild District closer to the Rivermark are a jumble of wagons, crates, and all manner of folk busy with commerce. Walking along Overtegyrn Byway north, to the west of the Citadel's curtain wall, the companions attract little attention even with Maelicent swelling their ranks. The Guild District houses all manner of Teggest's guild houses, both grand and insubstantial. Located twixt the Plaza of Gold where the city's wealthiest members parade in a perpetual day and night showcase of their finery, and the Old Wall of Citadel Teglund, the Guild District is nearly the heart of the city, full of bustle at all hours.
> 
> From Nickleby Bar at the southernmost section of the city's outer protective wall, Overtegyrn Byway leads directly to and past both the Guild District and the western border of the Plaza of Gold. An open space diamond in shape, the Plaza is bordered on all four sides by grass (a rarity in cramped Teggest), small fruit-bearing trees, benches, and minute suites of table and chairs. The square itself is inlaid with red brick paving stone imported from Daroln. A font in the center of the Plaza sprays water from a statue of Michel Edain, the founder of ancient Edaesmyd. The stomping ground of Teggest's nobility and of those associated with the finer pursuits of life (music, art, epicurean delights, theatre, shopping, and the like), the Plaza of Gold is the place in Teggest to see and to be seen.
> 
> The ancient throne of Michel Edaesmyd now long since abandoned, Citadel Teglund is a massive stone castle, only its upper bailey visible from the streets of Teggest. While the lower bailey is below eyesight, at least to the layperson, rumor has it that a forest has overgrown the grounds twixt the castle's curtain wall and the old palisade surrounding the lower bailey. The Citadel rests upon a natural motte and has resisted sinking into the earth due to the striated rock beneath the structure's foundation; the rock of the motte is visible from the castle's front gatekeep and barbicans on the east side of the city. The curtain wall itself is a masterpiece of fortified defense. Easily as tall as the nearby rafters of the Temple of Stone, the citadel's outer wall is made of granite blocks, each the size of a small wagon. A series of watch towers connects each segment of the outer bailey wall, with room atop for armed soldiers to defend the keep not only through arrow slits, but also an overhanging merlon which itself is latticed with murder holes and machiolations. Additional curtain wall defenses include a series of brattices and hoardings, all meant to keep invading armies from sapping the wall or otherwise undermine the wall's integrity.
> 
> Odd that the folk of the city so little discuss that which looms so large through nearly every window of every residence and shop. The few who now speak of the citadel do so under their breath and mutter of haunted things that waft and wander at night through not only the empty halls of the keep, but also the forest beyond. The Old City Forest, as Maelicent has heard rumor, is home to any number of interesting creatures, natural and unnatural.




I found the above in post 458 on page 12 of the IC.  I checked my notes on the citadel and despite the fact that I wrote down 70 feet four years ago when I was designing things, in the IC I said the wall 50 feet high the first time I typed and presented a description.  So I need to amend my latest mention of 70 feet down to 50 feet.  The curtain wall is officially 50 feet high.  Hope that helps.


----------



## SlagMortar

Well, a wall that large is likely to be different heights in different places.  I imagine whether the wall is 50 feet, 70 feet, or 1000 feet, Mael won't be trying to climb it when there's that many tall trees trying to get him.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. So Mael only has to scale a three story building instead of a five story building? Oh good. I was starting to worry that he might not survive this.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> Well, a wall that large is likely to be different heights in different places.  I imagine whether the wall is 50 feet, 70 feet, or 1000 feet, Mael won't be trying to climb it when there's that many tall trees trying to get him.




Agreed, but a 20-foot-height differential was a little hard for me to swallow even inside a city that sits on a network of terraces.  One could also probably reasonably expect the 12-foot width at the wall's base to thin or bulge in places.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Heh. So Mael only has to scale a three story building instead of a five story building? Oh good. I was starting to worry that he might not survive this.



I'm a little worried for him, too.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I'm a little worried for him, too.



If you're only a "little worried" then things may not be as bad as I imagined then. 

I guess I underestimated the level of danger this enchanted forest represented. I mean, on the low end of the enchanted forest scale you've got the waylay-impertinent-travelers-by-shifting-the-trails-around kind of enchanted forest and at the extreme end you've got the every-single-tree-in-the-forest-is-a-malevolent-treant-who-together-can-grind-armies-into-pulp kind of enchanted forest.

Personally, I blame the giant-kin for this situation. The forest used to be just a bit annoying before but at least it was manageable for Mael. Since the party entered the grounds though the trees have gone off the deep end and gotten their underpants all in a bunch. 

Seriously though, whatever happens happens.


----------



## Voadam

I'm loving the demonic banter btw.


----------



## SlagMortar

Voadam said:
			
		

> Brakkus, you can still distract it to give Chev a better shot with his axe.



I thought of using "aid another" on Chev's attack, but I don't really think Brakkus should be able to aid the attack even if it is technically permitted by the rules.

Unless, of course, you meant something else, in which case, color me confused.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You could try feinting.


----------



## Mista Collins

I'm pretty sure you could still aid another. Though you haven't damaged the thing yet, it should still see you as a possible threat. Thus a distraction and aid in me striking it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The OP has been edited to include a simple but enhanced map of Citadel Teglund and its grounds.  Given much of the textual description I've provided here and in the IC, the scale (distances between points of interest most of all) is grossly misrepresented.  Very obviously, I need more room up north and to increase the overall size of the keep's outer grounds.  You can bet that your experience in this game as guinea pigs for my homebrew will enhance the next map I construct with an eye for a major overhall of the citadel grounds.  

Two points of interest might include #3, the West Gate.  The Gate was long ago sealed and doesn't benefit from even a portcullis at the moment.  It's sheer stone, quarried and filled where the gate used to be, but to an onlooker interested enough to meander through the Plaze of Gold and get behind some of the shops, the stone would be much newer than the stone of the original curtain walls flanking either side of the fill-in.  The Old Wood, marked as #11 on the map, extends halfway around the citadel's northern side all the way south until coming fairly close on the southeastern edge of the keep, very near to Bathmere.  This is the "enchanted" forest through which the group trekked when you were accosted by al-mi'raj.  Rot-root is a decrepit old oak who mostly favors the Old Wood but has been seen elsewhere on the grounds, albeit with decreased frequency.

And, I'm pretty beat today so, having worked up what I hope is a fairly legible blow-up of the citadel grounds and posted it here in the OOC, I'm off to bed.  Fixed a broken window, went to ballet this morning with three eager children, and toted a baby 'round the house on my hip all the while.  Whew!    

G'night.


----------



## Ambrus

I hope you had a relaxing weekend. When abouts are you leaving for the mainland BTW?

Thanks for the map CB. The bit you mentioned about the west-gate being bricked up helps me to finally understand why the group initially had to walk around the entire citadel exterior to enter the grounds; I'd been puzzled about it for months. Looking at the map, I have to admit that I can see why I was having trouble figuring out where we were and where we we'd been going. Did you intentionally move Mael's hovel near the West-gate? IIRC you'd originally described it as being very near the northern most tip of the grounds.

Unfortunately, I still can't quite figure out where abouts Mael is currently located since the tactical map in the IC thread shows the outer curtain wall to be (edit: due east) of his position. That would seem to place him somewhere south of the east-gate entrance. Is that right?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's pretty messed up, I know.  I'm not very happy with current incongruity twixt some of the IC description and the map and am considering re-doing the map to reflect what we've already gamed through in the IC.  I've pretty much all but settled on a re-do of the map but wanted to open the floor to see if any of you have a preference or an idea on how to best fix it.  As far as I can tell, I can either fix the map to reflect what's been going on in-game, I can edit the IC to reflect the map, or I can let things lie as is and we'll muddle our way through.  Fixing the map wouldn't be that hard.  But maybe one of you has a good idea?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> When abouts are you leaving for the mainland BTW?



I leave on the 11th, return on the 22nd.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm not certain that attempting to reflect what we've already gamed through would help or even be possible. What I mean is that, try as I might I could never make much sense out of the cardinal directions included in the IC game posts; it seemed to me that wherever the party was heading that we always ended up traveling north, regardless of if we were backtracking to a previous location or not.

My advice is: don't worry too much about previous posts; you'll drive yourself crazy trying to reconcile contradictory statements. Simply place all the locations wherever you think they best fit logically on the map and then we'll go from there in the game thread. If you're comfortable with the map as is, then keep it. I just need to know where Mael is now so that I can figure out which direction to aim for. Then again, if you just have the trees trample him then I suppose even that won't matter all that much.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> It's pretty messed up, I know.  I'm not very happy with current incongruity twixt some of the IC description and the map and am considering re-doing the map to reflect what we've already gamed through in the IC.  I've pretty much all but settled on a re-do of the map but wanted to open the floor to see if any of you have a preference or an idea on how to best fix it.  As far as I can tell, I can either fix the map to reflect what's been going on in-game, I can edit the IC to reflect the map, or I can let things lie as is and we'll muddle our way through.  Fixing the map wouldn't be that hard.  But maybe one of you has a good idea?




I hate mapping. I don't really pay attention to the map or descriptions of north/south or distances. I focus on the immediate scene, atmosphere, plot, and details of factions and what-not.

There is a keep in the forest within the keep's outer walls which are within the city. We're in cavern on a hill in the forest, the gnomes are in a burrow a little ways off in the forest, and Mael has a hidden home also in the forest. There are slightly malevolent trees that move around confusing the trails, one big nasty one called Rotroot, a Banshee, and wierd dark fey animals such as the al'miraj scattered about.

That's my understanding of the geography here in the Dark Wood. North/South and exact distances are not part of it.

So whatever you do with the map is fine by me, I'm happy to keep on this level of understanding as a player.


----------



## Voadam

"The dark wood is part of the lands of dark Sidhe, the dokkalfaire, the black fairies. What seems north walking one way for a mile will be west for only a hundred yards when you return. The land is full of fey magic and tricks the minds of mortals of this world if you try to measure and contain it rationally. Move along to your purpose instead and you will be fine, just don't leave the path or accept any gifts while there."


----------



## SlagMortar

> My advice is: don't worry too much about previous posts; you'll drive yourself crazy trying to reconcile contradictory statements.



I think this is the right idea.  Before the map, I pretty much was thinking like Voadam rather than try to always figure out where everything is in relation to each other.  It certainly won't cause me any grief to have the relative locations of things shifted around some.  If I end up remembering something later that contradicts the map then it is easy to assign the blame to a Brakkus's faulty memory.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Not a good morning for me!  

Hawaii is a tropical climate.  Sounds obvious, but that statement comes with a dearth of consequences.  I thought about taking the trash out last night but got creeped out by the dark, so I decided to wait until the morning.  This morning was twelve hours too late; a fly had gotten into the kitchen trash can and had a field day, the end result of which was maggots all OVER my freakin' kitchen floor this morning.  After stiffling a strong urge to vomit and ensconcing the children safely out of the way, I had the dubious pleasure of hopping around the kitchen tile floor, collecting maybe a hundred maggots.  Would you believe that Lysol, Windex w/ammonia, and Raid ant spray would not kill those suckers?!  Hardy little things.  I ended up sweeping the damned things up and depositing them outdoors as quickly as I could.  After dealing with the trash, mopping the floor, then showering to get rid of my heebie jeebies, it is now 9:30 am.  I have errands in town this morning.  I'll post tonight.  Sorry.  I got lazy about the household trash and paid the consequences today.

Maggots have always grossed me out pretty badly.  Their sickly creamy white bodies that wriggle, and that little black dot at the end.  Hate them.  Probably has to do with what they represent, that and there's never just one.  Where there's one, there'll be more.


----------



## SlagMortar

Wow, that is not cool.  As a chronic procrastinator of taking out he garbage, I certainly understand the delay, but I guess that works out a little better in the midwest.  If it is any consolation, I'm less jealous of your awesome view of the ocean than I was last week.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Oh, they're awful.  I learned after we first moved to Hawaii that trash bags need to be tied tightly off at the top and that the lid to the trash can outside must never be cracked open. When I'm home alone while my husband is deployed, I avoid going outside after dark.  Scared of the dark and all that.  We have a big stone wall all around this house and a secure lock on the gate to the driveway out front, but even so...not going to matter that much if someone is determined to get in.   

Every place has its ups and downs.    I grew up in Canada and the western U.S..  I miss the snow.


----------



## Voadam

I guess the snuffling beast in the tunnel is now going to show up in the lamplight as a bloated all white carrion crawler.


----------



## Ambrus

I can't believe that fly larvae can incubate and hatch overnight. Crazy. 


			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I grew up in Canada and the western U.S..  I miss the snow.



Whereabouts did you live in Canada?


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Maggots … I wonder where is the zombie they infested his body? Did you check the closet?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Naw, not overnight.    That trash bag had been in there since Friday evening.  We don't really generate that much garbage as a family.  I normally take the trash out every other day, more frequently if need be.  I put our food scraps down the garbage disposal in the sink and some of the rest of it we compost.  But I'd grilled pork chops on Friday night; I think they may've spawned in the pork chop wrapper.  I've heard that fly larvae can hatch in 8 hours if the conditions are ripe.  Libris Mortis has a dire maggot.  I was thinking of using it last week.  May have to revist that idea.  Ya know, since the description is fresh in my mind and all.   

I was born in B.C., in the Kootenays, and then lived in northern Alberta.  We moved around after that quite a bit, but I did a nine year stint in western Wyoming somewhere in the mix there.  New Orleans, Texas, California, Arizona, South Carolina, Germany, South Korea...Hawaii.  Those are the places I've lived.  My parents are American southerners.  I'm an American citizen as well.


----------



## Mista Collins

Sounds like you've moved around quite a bit. Hawaii is one place I have yet to visit. And living 5 minutes from the U.S./Canadian border, I consider myself a Canadian implant. I practically lived there every night between the ages of 19-21.

If there is one thing that I cannot tolerate, it is maggots. I have a very strong constitution when it comes to stomaching disgusting sights & smells, but maggots for some reason are my kryptonite.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Kryptonite.  Good description.  

Ambrus, the oak has Improved Grab, but all the same, thanks for pointing out to me that dealing even one point of damage on an AoO at the initiation of a grapple will stop a grapple attempt in its tracks.  Ditto re: the tree needing to move into Maelicent's square next round.  It's something to keep in mind.


----------



## Ambrus

_"He piled upon the whale's white hump the sum of all the general
rage and hate felt by his whole race from Adam down; and then, as if
his chest had been a mortar, he burst his hot heart's shell upon it."_

–Moby Dick, Herman Melville


It looks like this may be the end for our poor goblin.


----------



## Voadam

Things look very grim for the lone Goodwulf, sorry Ambrus. But also not so great in the cave. I thought cover would still work against incorporeals, but guess not. I don't think putting light on a nonmagical weapon will make it affect incorporeals by the RAW, but it seems thematically right. I've got one cantrip that could affect the demon then I'm out as far as being able to affect it. And there is still the dire maggot down the hall coming.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> And there is still the dire maggot down the hall coming.




Or is there?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Maelicent is currently unconscious in the forest.  I got something in mind for him but it'll have to sit until those in the cave finish up with what's going on there and I can put everyone back on the same timeline once again.  Ambrus, if you get fantastically bored while waiting, feel free to pop in at the IC and post a dream sequence for Mal.


----------



## Ambrus

_“To the last, I grapple with thee; From Hell's heart,
I stab at thee; For hate's sake, I spit my last breath at thee”_
                             –Moby Dick, Herman Melville

Is that likely to be before you leave for the mainland? I suppose I could post how his Wolf God comes and judges whether he had a worthy death or not, But I guess that'd depend on whether he'd died or not. You expect Mael to survive?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I expect Mal to survive, yes.  He may be in for a tough time getting back to the cave, but I expect him to survive.

And, yeah, I'm hoping to have it fixed in everyone's minds where things stand before Friday rolls around and I leave for the mainland.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. I guess I didn't really expect an unconscious goblin to survive in the middle of a burning forest. I can't really imagine how he could have a harder time getting back to the cave then he's had already though.

You know, it occurs to me that if Mael gets at least 420 experience points for defeating some of the animated trees he'd hit third level, consequently gain hit points and possibly regain consciousness early.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

...and hilarity ensued.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Well, nuts.  Chev totally spoiled my grand plan.   

Good job, you guys.  I didn't think you'd beat that encounter, but you did.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Hang tight, Ambrus.  I'll have you back conscious here by tomorrow this time, probably.  Just gotta give the others a bit.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

One more hour for Maelicent to go, Ambrus.  You've been patient, just keep hanging tight.  I'll be around today and tonight to work out posts with anyone who's here.


----------



## Ambrus

It started to rain?!? &#@%! I was hoping for a clean sweep of the whole forest. I'm guessing some smarty-pants nearby cast weather control to put out the fire. Muh.  

Lessee, the encounter in the cave started roughly an hour after Mael left to fetch some meat. It took him about ten minutes to reach the rodent ambush, then he got waylaid on the way back (say five minutes later). Say about ten to fifteen minutes to build a fire and prepare his armaments, then a few rounds spent in combat before he passed out. Since the rain started shortly after the fight in the cave was resolved (say another ten minutes) along with five to ten minutes for it to be snuffed out altogether...

I'm guessing the fire managed to rage out of control through the forest for roughly three-quarters of an hour; probably not a clean sweep, but a good start nonetheless. Does that sound about right CB?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I was thinking about the same as you, but in simpler terms.  I put the group in the cave an hour ahead of you and didn't bother to count Mal's travel or fire-building time.  I figure the fire in the forest had an hour to rage before it started to rain.  Enough to do some damage.  The current month is Revot, named after Reven, this homebrew's CE god of destruction and fire.  Revot is the peak of summer; it's hot, and things are very dry.  Fertile makings for a nice forest fire.  I shudder to think of the far-reaching implications of a large fire inside Teggest.  I'm sure the Admiralty will notice it.  How they respond, I haven't worked out yet.  Good thing I have ten days of brainstorming coming up, eh?

*I need for Gamad, Voadam, Brakkus, and Maelicent to level-up, please. *   I'll work out XP later tonight, but you were all very, very close and these two tough encounters will definitely put you over the cusp and into the next level.  We won't bother with resting before you benefit from your level-up.  PbP takes too long and I don't want to set the precedent of having to sleep/rest before gaining the advantages of one's next earned level.  You'll get it immediately.  

I will be downloading a fresh copy of our RG after you edit your character sheets to reflect the new level, so please don't forget to do the edit or you may find me using outdated stats to adjudicate encounters.

HP should be rolled, either by hand by you or using invisiblecastle.com.  No need to link to your roll if you use invisiblecastle.  If you don't like what you roll, you may take what I roll for you, but my roll is final.  

Good luck!


----------



## Mista Collins

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> *I need for Gamad, Voadam, Brakkus, and Maelicent to level-up, please. *



READ: Everyone but Chev.   

Don't worry guys, I'll fight the baddies while you level up. lol. I must have gotten lucky with some of those rolls.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yeah, I know, sorry.  I couldn't bring myself to say "everyone but Chev."    

You were WAY lucky with those rolls.  I was pretty surprised.  When Chev got the first hit in, I thought, "Okay, that was lucky."  But when he got the second hit in, beating both the darkness concealment and the incorporeality, I was a little stunned.  Like I said, I had plans for Brakkus, but c'est la vie.


----------



## Voadam

Voadam becomes a level 2 wizard. Rolled a 4 (http://invisiblecastle.com/find.py?id=1035636), I'll keep that roll.


----------



## Ambrus

I can't wait to see what the final tally is in Mael's epic goblin vs. forest battle!  

Forest 0
Goblin ?

Hey! I get the Endurance feat at third level. Now Mael can burn trees all night long without resting!


----------



## Voadam

I'm taking magic missile and disguise self, though the touch attack spells and shield are very tempting for magical martial arts style purposes.


----------



## Ambrus

You know Voadam, eventually this woman's corpse will putrify and then you'll have those maggot swarms you were hoping for. Congrats!


----------



## Mista Collins

Well if our little master of dead bodies didn't leave to go get food and burn the forest down, we'd have someone to take care of it properly.


----------



## SlagMortar

Brakkus rolled a hit points (1d10+2=11) for hitpoints.  I've got him at third level, and he's already getting better at fighting in the dark.  Brakkus now has +1 will save so just you try to possess him again!

Brakkus probably would have gone to find out what was thumping as soon as his armor was properly fastened, though being nearly possessed certainly may have unnerved him enough to be afraid to go back into the darkness.  It probably wouldn't have made any difference anyway.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar, from Brakkus's character sheet:


> He has been trained as a soldier and wants nothing more than to be on the coasts preparing to storm the Isle Jorunne.



Celine of Jorunne might have been an enemy.  Or a coveted prize, depending on how you look at things.     I'll leave it up to your discretion how much of her Brakkus would have known.  I'm open to pretty much any possibility.


----------



## SlagMortar

Thanks for pointing that out.    I'm bad with names of things and didn't take the time to look up Jorunne.  I edited the response with something more appropriate, though I think his spoken words were actually pretty appropriate.  He's now simply added another reason for wanting to have saved her.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Good edit.  I'll follow your lead on how close Brakkus was to Celine.  Any level of involvement, from having only heard of her, to having been her intended, will work for me.  Feel free to put your own riff on things; I'll play along.


----------



## SlagMortar

Well, as a minor noble, I think she would be well above his station, unless he did something magnificent like capture her.    I'd say he's seen her once before at a large feast held by the King of Gwyund to celebrate something-such that Brakkus wasn't really paying much attention to.    Brakkus's older brother Ander (the one I think of as a bit bardish) even danced with her.  Brakkus could have too, but he was never too into dancing.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Sounds good.  

At this point, I'm only waiting on Strahd to post again for Gamad so that, out of courtesy, he can get in one post if he wants to react to the dead girl before I forward time so that Ambrus can rejoin the ranks of active posters.  If Strahd hasn't posted for Gamad by tomorrow morning, I'll go ahead and forward time regardless.  I do intend to leave you all with this petite cliffhanger, so feel free to converse your hearts away while I'm gone.  You guys have the whole night ahead of you to chat; when the action broke out in the cave, Gamad was first up on the watch order and he'd only gotten in one hour.  We'll have counted down two more hours before Maelicent reappears, making for a grand total of 3 hours of Gamad's watch gone by.  The night will pass uneventfully.


----------



## Ambrus

I leveled up Maelicent by adding a third level of ranger. I rolled 6 for his hit points.

Edit: CB, I've been meaning to ask; did you expect Mael's reaction when you were planning the forest's blockade? Did you expect him to simply follow the path the trees opened up for him? Just curious what your expectations were.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I didn't expect that _specific_ reaction, no.  I didn't necessarily expect that Maelicent would go down the path cut for him by the trees, which is why I tried to provide descriptive text enough to illuminate options for other things he could do.  I put it at maybe 25% odds that he would go down the path, 25% odds that he'd force-cut his way through the forest north back to the cave and 50% odds that he'd do something else that I hadn't anticipated.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> No trees were anywhere near him (other than the normal forest array) when he woke.



I don't really understand what you mean. What exactly is "normal" in this enchanted forest? How far away from Mael were the closest trees? How much of the surrounding forest had been devastated by fire? Are there remains of burnt trees in the clearing? Where is the clearing on the map? Are there any clues hinting as to how the goblin avoided being caught up in the blaze? What was the path back to the cave like? How are the surviving trees reacting to him?

Edit: Also, Mael might not try returning to the crag as soon as he awakens. Entering the forest once more without fire at hand and in his weakened state seems very risky. He'd probably be better off remaining where he is, improvising some shelter and waiting for morning.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

What I more meant was boom, there you go, you're not dead and you're back at the cave.    

Inside the Old Forest, there is a distinct air in the wood when the trees animate.  Things are noticeably more electric, alive, even to the onlooker.  When the trees are not awake, the forest reverts to a more palpably drowsy feel.  When Maelicent woke, the mallorn was nothing but a burnt out stump with a ring of wet smoking grass 50 feet around it.  Maelicent was outside that ring of burnt underfoliage.  He could reasonably surmise that either the oak tossed him there, someone else moved him, or that he has magical power(s) that saved him.  He certainly wasn't where he last remembered being.  Since you took a level in ranger for 3rd level and are on your way to spellcasting ability at 4th level ranger, you might elect to have him decide that he now has magic in him.  The closest tree would not have been far from Mal when he woke.  Other than the 50 foot diameter burnt area of the mallorn, the rest of the forest is normally arrayed with a smattering of trees of all sizes pretty much everywhere.  The oak is nowhere in sight.  The fir tree must have made it a ways west, judging by the smoke in the direction.  The forest has rearranged itself since the fir lit on fire and took off, making it hard for Maelicent to judge how much of the wood might have burned to the west.  The surviving trees don't move or otherwise react to the goblin; certainly, they do not open a path for him as they did earlier.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Edit: Also, Mael might not try returning to the crag as soon as he awakens. Entering the forest once more without fire at hand and in his weakened state seems very risky. He'd probably be better off remaining where he is, improvising some shelter and waiting for morning.



If that's what he needs to do, do it.  I can amend my last post to reflect this.  As long as you get it up within the next two to three hours.  After that, I'll be gone.


----------



## Ambrus

I hadn't realized that the forest wasn't always animated. I figured the opening-up you'd described was simply how the trees always acted when they weren't acting to oppose travelers. Since there's no way to know what set them off last time then Mael will wait till he's regained his strength and the rain has died down so that the can defend himself against the next wanton forest attack. I'll try to type something up soon to that effect.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The section of forest on the citadel map marked "Old Wood" is the area of the grounds where the trees are often animated.  It's not a constant, but it is frequent.  Likewise, the rest of the grounds have woods that behave queerly at times, though not with the frequency attributed to the Old Wood.

Thanks for posting a speedy reply this morning.  I edited to reflect Mal having sheltered overnight against the mallorn.  Having done that, we should now all be on the same page.  While it may be tempting to have Mal go exploring to see the extent of the damage done by the rampaging fir, I would prefer if Mal went back to the cave first so that we don't wind up on two disparate timelines any longer than we've already indulged ourselves.


----------



## Ambrus

Well, is there any chance of Mael making a detour to go see if the skeletal rats left any al'miraj meat before heading back? A simple yes/no response is sufficient here; I can then detail his arrival at the cave.

If I don't hear back from you please have a good trip back to the mainland. I know you're going for a solemn event; my thoughts go with you.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes, he can fetch some meat from the al-mi'raj bodies.  One was eaten, one is missing, but a third al-mi'raj was left and is rain-sodden.  One skeletal dire rat body is laying, "dead," in the clearing when Maelicent gets there.  Its head has been ripped off.  No, there is no meat on the dead rat.    

I was asked to deliver the eulogy.  I'm mentally crafting what I will say.  I've decided to bring the episcopal Book of Common Prayer that my grandmother owned but gave to me for my christmas present about seven years ago, along with the St. Christopher's medallion my grandfather got when he left for WWII as a navy pilot that I found tucked into the back of the book as props for the eulogy I deliver.


----------



## Ambrus

I had performed a few scripture readings at my grandfather's funeral.

Speaking about the various events he lived through during his lifetime, such as his service in the navy, sounds like a good idea to me. Having lived through the better part of the 20th century and the begining of the 21st century, I'm certain he witnessed more change then most other generations could have imagined in years past; the Great Depression, WW2, the space race, the lunar landing, the cold war, the electronic revolution... The list of "first evers" goes on and on.

Whatever it is you say, I'm certain he'd be pleased with it. We can all only hope to be remembered fondly when we pass.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

I rolled 3 for HP
Feat - Extend spell


----------



## Ambrus

I'm going to wait to post Mael's return to the cave until it seems you guys have finished role-playing your way through the evening. With CB gone there's no reason to rush through your role-playing.


----------



## Ambrus

Are you guys about done role-playing then?


----------



## SlagMortar

I'm ready for Mael to show up anytime he likes.


----------



## Ambrus

I believe Chev had the final watch in the early morning, so he'd probably be the one Mael would first see awake when he shows up; care to describe what he'd be up to? Keep in mind that you guys will have to had taken longer shifts since Mael wasn't around for his and you'd have to sleep an extra hour to make up for the battle.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

The disfigured wizard snores loudly


----------



## Ambrus

Is there some reason you've all gone quiet? :\


----------



## Mista Collins

With the DM gone, I've used the extra time I have had getting stuff together for a game I plan on running in a month or so. Plus Chev isn't the talkative type... yet.


----------



## Voadam

DM gone, been a little busy and figured only Chev would be up when you got back, but if it is late enough that the wizards are preparing spells then I'll jump in.


----------



## SlagMortar

I've been traveling a little and had some off and on access.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm home but am completely done in by the long weekend of driving coupled with the emotion of the service then tripled by the two flights back to Hawaii today with the baby.  It's as I expected; I need another day to recoup time and energy.  Please look for a post from me on Thursday.

And thanks.


----------



## Ambrus

Welcome back CB!


----------



## Voadam

Welcome back

I will be gone from 5/26 to 6/3 and expect to resume posting on Monday June 4.


----------



## Ambrus

Darn, I have to get Voadam to explain this whole "magic" thing to Maelicent before you go.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Darn, I have to get Voadam to explain this whole "magic" thing to Maelicent before you go.




Ask the deformed dwarf ...

Welcome back CB


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Ask the deformed dwarf ...



I'm kind of hoping to strike up a breakfast conversation amongst the party in the in-game thread.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Everybody keeping what they rolled for HP?  Did I miss anyone's question on anything?  If so, please re-state.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

post #734
Gamad's read magic


----------



## Ambrus

Just to clarify, Mael wasn't trying to cook the meat he placed in the cubby, simply dry it out and preserve it with smoke. He's likewise not aiming to cook the princess' body in the cubby, simply dry it and preserve it for later transport. He's also not intending to open up the cubby after sealing it, that is until the group is ready to collect her body and transport it back out of the forest later. Roasting the haunch of meat for breakfast was being done on a separate cook-fire on the ledge outside of the cave. Sorry if I was unclear.  

Oh, and Maelicent's question wasn't intended to be rhetorical; he really does want an answer from the group as to how he should go about getting demon-slaying magic. And I assume his search of the cubby and body turned up nothing?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks, Strahd and Ambrus.  I'll supply an edit for Maelicent's cooking/smoking activities later tonight.  I'll also post a reply for Gamad later tonight.

Anyone else?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Maelicent said:
			
		

> *"WHERE'S ME LUCKY CHARMS!?!"* The goblin finally gets so animated in his ranting that he starts spitting out small bits of meat, fat and gristle as he speaks before settling back down and taking his frustration out on the giant-rabbit once more.



FIFY.


----------



## Ambrus

Hm. Maybe Mael should get his own breakfast cereal. He'd be a great marketing icon for the goth/emo crowd. 

Better yet, he should ambush and slay Lucky the Leprechaun, steal his lucky charms and then lay in wait for those gluttonous kids to show up. Then he'd unleash the full might of his "lucky" charms on them. 

_"Bitter Goblin Hexes,
They're magically malicious!"_


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I might have to find leprechaun stats somewhere.    

I've edited the cooking/smoking post.  I've also put up what Gamad got from his _read magic _ on the scrolls.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I might have to find leprechaun stats somewhere.




ToH


----------



## Voadam

CB, do you mind if I save disguise self for later learning from a scroll and take chill touch instead as my 2nd level wizard learning? I'd like to have an attack for the shadow demon and blue auras around my fist is a cool visual.


----------



## Voadam

Voadam, a helpful guy, empowering evil goblin apprentices everywhere to eventually learn cure light wounds spells.


----------



## Ambrus

Heh. Goblins have numbers on their side. If they all gain the ability to heal themselves then they become an nigh unstopable force. You'll be a goblin hero!  

CB, although we leveled up our characters, you never did assign us our xp.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> CB, do you mind if I save disguise self for later learning from a scroll and take chill touch instead as my 2nd level wizard learning?



Go right ahead.  We haven't done anything yet since the level up.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> CB, although we leveled up our characters, you never did assign us our xp.



Right you are.  Sorry.  I'll tend to that today.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Go right ahead.  We haven't done anything yet since the level up.




Done.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I forwarded you guys back down to the crystal cave, or just before it.  If you wanted to do something while we march back down there, let me know.  I'll edit in any pertinent info as need be.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm good with it. So, did we figure out if the group has enough torches and lamp oil left? The party spent about two and a half hours exploring the caves yesterday, plus however long the lantern was left burning during the night plus another hour just now. How many torches and/or oil did we use and how much is left? It'll be at least an hour's walk to get back to the top later...


----------



## CanadienneBacon

You guys hadn't figured out how much oil and how many torches you had, no.


----------



## Ambrus

Well, uh, maybe we should do that before we trudge down into the dark depths... 

Lessee. Here's what everyone has listed in the rogue's gallery.

Brakkus: 2 torches, hooded lantern, 2 pints of lamp oil
Gamad: 10 candles, 1 tindertwig.
Voadam: 4 torches
Chev: 3 torches
Maelicent: 5 tindertwigs

I believe Voadam was using his torches during the previous day's explorations so that would have used up about three of his (each torch lasts an hour), which leaves him with one. If the lantern was kept lit in the cave throughout the night for those keeping watch, that'd be about 10 hours' worth of oil; which would leave Brakkus with only two hours of oil. Having spent an hour walking back down the tunnel this morning would have used up Voadam's last torch. So by my count the group has a total of three torches and a bit of oil; or the equivalent of *five hours* of light left. Then we're down to candles, tindertwigs and light spells.


----------



## Voadam

Can we fashion torches out of the wood that was brought in?


----------



## Ambrus

Torches require more than simply wood to burn, usually some kind of wick or cord and a slow-burning fuel such as tallow or pitch on the end. I suppose it would be possible to make some if we wrapped some hemp rope around some stout sticks, melted some of the tallow from Gamad's candles into it and/or soaked it in Brakkus lamp oil. I don't really think it'll be necessary though. Do you think it'll take much more than five hours to finish exploring the caves?


----------



## Mista Collins

Don't forget to add the 20 minutes Chev has when he casts _Light_.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

XP sent via e-mail.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It's Memorial Day in the U.S.  I'm taking today off, see you Tuesday evening.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for waiting.  Post is up in the IC.

Head's up, I've enrolled in discrete mathematics for the summer and was just elected deacon for my church.  I'll have therefore have some extra duties to tend to that I previously didn't.  This game should continue on without a hitch, though during exam times I may need to slack the pace a bit.


----------



## Ambrus

Congratulations on your deaconhood CB.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ayup, thanks.  I'm looking forward to an opportunity to serve.


----------



## Ambrus

CB, since Mael passed by it and there doesn't appear anything blocking his line of sight, might you describe what he sees along the southern P-8 tunnel?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Sure thing.  P8 takes a sharp dog-leg down and west where I left off mapping.  In short, the sharp bend in the tunnel prevents Maelicent from seeing more of what lies that way.  Judging from the angle, the ground in that direction cants sharply down.

S13 appears to be another tunnel of natural rock and dirt, with stalactites, that heads away off south, again (like P8) heading down.


----------



## Ambrus

Also, what source of light is illuminating the water in the cavern's southeastern corner? Can Mael discern whether the giant fungi in the cavern is harmless and/or edible with his Survival +8?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Maelicent has darkvision and was able to see into the cavern, but there is something underneath the water in the pool that shines upward.  From where he stands at the entrance to the large mushroom cavern, the fungi appear to be edible.  Many varieties of mushrooms are easily confused with other (poisonous) specimens, so before assuming edibility you may want to have him actually venture into the cave and touch or otherwise examine the mushrooms to be sure.


----------



## Ambrus

That's alright, he's not that hungry; he just ate. 

Does the scrapping sound issuing from the northeast corner sound like a large creature (like tunnel sized) or something small (like Mael)?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It sounds like a tool scrapping on dirt.  Neither huge nor petite.


----------



## Ambrus

Alright. Mael will complete his circuit of the tunnels and return to the group's position as outlined in my last in-game post. I'll type up a post to that effect in a bit.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Sounds good.  When Maelicent returns to the group, you guys should go ahead and all of you post at will.  I'll double check the IC tonight to make sure that I don't need to supply anything else with regard to Mal's scouting.


----------



## Ambrus

If the group seems willing to follow Mael's lead, he'll take point while they follow the right-hand wall until they reach N-8 where he'll signal them to stop. They can then regroup, relight the torch and coordinate their advance while he enters the mushroom cavern covertly.


----------



## Ambrus

Wow. Maelicent is such a jerk. I've never played an evil character before. It's proving to be much easier than I imagined it would be.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

I've never played a grumpy annoying dwarf that fell under a law spell   
Don't worry. After the law influence will disappear he will be back to be the quite and mysterious dwarf


----------



## Ambrus

Yeah, but Mael will still be a jerk.


----------



## Mista Collins

I wouldn't call him a jerk, just misguided and lacking social skills .


----------



## Ambrus

You're too kind.


----------



## SlagMortar

As far as Brakkus is concerned, Mael's too small to really be a jerk.


----------



## Voadam

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> I wouldn't call him a jerk, just misguided and lacking social skills .




I would. He can be quite the evil little goblin. Being misguided and lacking social skills are qualities that can lead to being a jerk.


----------



## Ambrus

What's this about Mael being misguided? He believes that adventuring is the best means to quickly accumulate power, magic and wealth. Go ahead and tell me what's misguided in that assumption.

As to his social skills, I think Mael acts in an acceptable fashion, that is until he's treated rudely. It's his response which tends to be a little disproportionate.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

He can also be a little weird when someone is too nice to him, too.  Witness his reaction to Arquesta's offer of the mushroom platter back in the Copper Coin.  I find him to be fairly consistent in his reaction to stimuli; I know people who, in real life, become awkward bumble stumps when someone is too nice to them, and who, when they suffer a perceived slight, WAY overreact.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Welcome back, Voadam.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar, is Brakkus still wielding his guisarme?  Post #772 has him gripping his guisarme and preparing for whatever lies ahead, but that was before Maelicent shuffled off to scout.

If Brakkus has the guisarme armed, then I owe him an AoO because the owlbear moved through a threatened square.  Let me know, please.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Another Owlbear?!?!
I just crushed an owlbear in Rhun's game, let's see the diffrence between Gamad and Zirat.


----------



## SlagMortar

> If Brakkus has the guisarme armed, then I owe him an AoO because the owlbear moved through a threatened square. Let me know, please.



Yep.  That's his standard.  Thanks!


----------



## Ambrus

I'm confused as to how Mael went from being in the crystal cave ahead of everyone, keeping watch for enemies, to being at the rear of the party with everyone having rushed past him through the lightless cave while he "hangs back a beat".

Even though I described him as having an arrow ready to fire and moving forward to see what was moving up the tunnel it appears that everyone else had one or two free rounds to move past him and get into position to attack while he stood around and did nothing. Just saying, it seems strange to me. :\


----------



## Voadam

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> Another Owlbear?!?!
> I just crushed an owlbear in Rhun's game, let's see the diffrence between Gamad and Zirat.




I don't think Gamad will do so well if he gets in a bear hug.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I'm confused as to how Mael went from being in the crystal cave ahead of everyone, keeping watch for enemies, to being at the rear of the party with everyone having rushed past him through the lightless cave while he "hangs back a beat".
> 
> Even though I described him as having an arrow ready to fire and moving forward to see what was moving up the tunnel it appears that everyone else had one or two free rounds to move past him and get into position to attack while he stood around and did nothing. Just saying, it seems strange to me. :\




It's because we started initiative.  Maelicent was in the crystal cave with an arrow readied.  He moved up and watched the southern tunnel as he pre-init action.  You wanted him to move forward to the edge of the pillar, so that's where I had him stop during pre-init.

I haven't posted an action yet for Maelicent this first round of full init because Gamad's the only one who had something specific declared.  As soon as I get declared actions from the others, I'll post the remainder of the first init round in the IC.  

In essence, you did not miss anything.  We're simply only part of the way through the round.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> I don't think Gamad will do so well if he gets in a bear hug.




Rhun's owlbear was pretty rockin' good.  Likely his'll be better than mine--more room to manuever.


----------



## Ambrus

Mael only had to move five feet before spotting the creature while everyone else had to move between 30 and 50 feet to get to their starting positions, some while they were stumbling around in the dark. Seems to me he would have had time to start shooting while everyone else was shuffling to catch up and the owlbear was still stuck in the small passage. Sorry, it still seems strange to me. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Sorry to have missed posting yesterday.  The site was working just fine for me in the morning on Wednesday but when I sat down to do you guys' post in the evening, I kept getting the server error message.  Considering I could pull up neither this site nor CM, but the rest of the internet was functioning on my end, I'm assuming server or Cyberstreet issues.  Regardless, sorry 'bout that and I'll be posting here in roughly the next hour.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> Maelicent, arrow nocked and drawn, moves around the stone collumn to covertly peer around the tunnel corner southwards.



That was what you posted for Mael directly before I started init.  While it would have been  reasonable for me to infer from that statement that Mael wanted to also _fire_ the arrow he had drawn and nocked, I suppose what happened is that I read the declaration, didn't see an explicit declaration of firing, and therefore didn't have Mael fire.  Given that, at that point, Maelicent hadn't seen what was coming up the tunnel, I suppose it could also be reasonably stated that I wasn't entirely sure what you would prefer he do and therefore erred on the side of DM neutrality.  I, for one, can certainly appreciate the argument you might brook with me if I'd had him fire and that _wasn't_ what you wanted.  *"Hey, you wasted an arrow that I never intended to shoot!  Great, now my character isn't hidden anymore!  You suck!"*


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Well, you all certainly made quick work of that task.  The owlbear is dead, and that's even with the d20 that previously used to roll pretty well for you guys suddenly deciding that it preferred to roll mostly 5 and lower.     I'd have gotten up and switched dice but the spares are in the baby's room on the bookshelf and she's napping.  

I can see I shall have to work harder if I wish to challenge you.


----------



## Ambrus

It *is* what I posted before you started init, but I when I posted it I didn't yet know when combat initiative would start, so I wasn't in a rush to post everything I might do. To me it seems premature to declare attack actions before initiative is called for; especially before the combatants are even in sight of each other.

I figured it'd be wise to simply have Mael take a look in the tunnel to acquire a target before starting to fire arrows. When Mael and the owlbear were within sight of each other we'd then start initiative and Mael would start firing on his turn while everyone else used their first round actions to move out of the tunnel where they were clustered on their turns.


----------



## SlagMortar

For what its worth, I was imagining that Mael went to peer around the corner and upon hearing the squeezing sounds, Brakkus decided to rush passed him.  I'll grant you that Brakkus made it quite aways passed, but I intentionally did not have Brakkus wait for Mael to peer around the corner before charging around himself.  If that becomes a habit, it may end up with Brakkus being a tasty snack for some critter, but we'll burn that bridge when we get to it.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I figured it'd be wise to simply have Mael take a look in the tunnel to acquire a target before starting to fire arrows. When Mael and the owlbear were within sight of each other we'd then start initiative and Mael would start firing on his turn while everyone else used their first round actions to move out of the tunnel where they were clustered on their turns.




I essentially gave everyone a round to prep before starting init, so as you can read in my last IC post, I gave Brakkus his AoO and Maelicent a shot with the bow.  You certainly cannot be expected to anticipate when combat will start or what, if any, foe might have appeared from up the tunnel, but having little to go on other than "my PC draws and notches an arrow while he looks 'round the corner," I initially had Mal do *only* that.  That said, once I saw your query here, I elected to go ahead and give Mal the extra shot as part of his pre-init sequence.


----------



## Ambrus

I don't see that there's any waiting to be done; peering around a corner is hardly a time consuming activity in my opinion. That's my point; Mael wasn't spending time just standing around admiring the owlbear when everyone decided to rush out of the tunnel to join the fray.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I initially had Mal do *only* that. That said, once I saw your query here, I elected to go ahead and give Mal the extra shot as part of his pre-init sequence.



Thank you. I guess I've just got to learn to be as explicit as possible when typing my posts. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

From my perspective, it basically boils down to me thinking, "Ambrus is often picky about his PC's actions.  Because of that, I'm feeling some trepidation about how far beyond his stated declaration I should take his character.  Should I go ahead and have the goblin fire, even though it may mean I get bombarded with complaints if I do?  Or should I go with what Ambrus wrote, sticking only to what he officially declared?  Hmmm...I don't like being yelled at, so I'll stick to what he wrote because, after all, he's an adult, can write well, may still be in Hide/Move Silently mode, and probably would've indicated if he wanted to do otherwise."

As it turned out, I received a complaint anyway.  Which I have now rectified.  I'm not feeling upset about it, but I *do* consider it a done deal seeing as how combat's over.


----------



## Ambrus

If in doubt you could just ask me to clarify my intentions. That would seem to me to be the easiest solution.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes, I agree.  

It's this dratted time zone difference that, in part at least, kills it.  I think I put up that pre-init post at nighttime my time, which makes it like sleeping time where you are?  Part of the issue is that I tend to want to stick to my self-imposed rule that I will post a minimum of once daily.  I would've missed that day's post if I'd waited til the (probably) the next day to receive a reply.  We could always just edit, I suppose.  I dislike having to do an edit, though.  Meh.  C'est la vie.    

Maybe the owlbear will have a cousin.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> If in doubt you could just ask me to clarify my intentions. That would seem to me to be the easiest solution.




That would involve extra work for the DM to resolve a round of combat and add delays in the middle of combat. PBP is slow enough as is and DMing a pbp game with people scattered across the globe for time zones is cumbersome to manage and get a good pace of posting rhythm.

In general I find it easiest for DMs to make instant adjudications for the whole round based on posted actions and keep the game moving. As both a player and DM I am fine with combats being somewhat chaotic and resolved on a whole round basis instead of the complete tactical control that would occur if the DM resolved each individual action and allowed reactions to the effects of those actions.

For instance, I'd have to check the IC combat post to see the initiative order but I think Voadam's spell technically went off in the initiative after the owlbear died. In a face to face game or a slower individual action resolution pbp model I would save that resource because I would wait to declare what my action for the round is until my turn. In a more narrative round based DM adjudication I declared I cast my spell, CB resolved the round based on my declaration, and the game can progress.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> For instance, I'd have to check the IC combat post to see the initiative order but I think Voadam's spell technically went off in the initiative after the owlbear died.



Gads, I will go check on that immediately.  I had been using my own posted init sequence when I wrote IC description of combat so I hope to hell that I didn't mess that up for you.  I know I rolled a 7 on init for Brakkus, Maelicent, and Voadam.  Mal went first cause he has the 18 Dex.  I rolled off between Brakkus and Voadam and well...I'll go check.

If it turns out that I FUBARed your spell slot, you'll get it back.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> Initiative:
> Gamad 20
> Chev 12
> *Maelicent 7 (has the 18 Dex)
> Voadam 7 (won the roll off between himself and Brakkus--same Dex)
> Brakkus 7*
> Owlbear 4



Unfortunately, it appears that I did the write-up correctly.  I guess that's one time when it definitely did not pay to be before someone else in the init sequence. :\ 

As always, however, let me know if you feel things have been fouled up.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, it appears that I did the write-up correctly.  I guess that's one time when it definitely did not pay to be before someone else in the init sequence. :\
> 
> As always, however, let me know if you feel things have been fouled up.




My mistake, but I don't consider it a big deal either way as a player. As a DM I care more about getting it right with full comprehension and appreciate your efforts to do so, but as a player I'm well aware there are a dozen little fiddly details for a DM to track mechanically and narratively to resolve a round's worth of actions. As a player I try to focus more on the narrative details rather than the mechanical ones.

I should have checked the IC facts before using it as an example though.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Your larger point does still stand, though.  As a PbP player, I prefer the same as you; I'm comfortable going with the flow.  I thank you for bringing it up.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm also able to just go with the flow of combat. I don't let any issues I have stop me from simply accepting what's happened and posting an appropriate response for the sake of expediency. When I do have an issue though, I don't have any qualms about bringing it up in the OOC thread.

If asking for clarifications is too time consuming, then perhaps simply stating up front how many rounds worth of time the party has to act before initiative starts would be sufficient. We could then declare everything we want to do in the time allotted without worrying about trying to do too much or too little.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Happily, I got that long-awaited phone call this evening from my husband.  He'll be home from deployment tomorrow.  I'll therefore be around EN World to post for this game but my posting rate will likely be much less frequent than normal over the course of this week and into next week.  

On a more upbeat note, this was to be his last deployment evar and so I find myself greatly looking forward to not having our lives at home interrupted by his comings and goings multiple times per year.    No doubt he's looking forward to not having to go anywhere, too.


----------



## Voadam

I knew I was going to regret not taking and preparing disguise self. I bet they wouldn't blink at another slug man walking by them over to the pool.


----------



## Ambrus

Your unrealized dream to walk amongst and be accepted by the giant-slugs makes me sad.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> *Click on the thumbnail image for an enlargement and please provide a grid square for your PCs if you haven't already.*



Unless I'm mistaken, I believe the remaining PCs were simply going to follow Mael's directions, which would lead them straight to the tool rack in the cavern. If they walk in single-file they'd end up in squares C-14, D-13, E-13 and F13 before the person in the lead runs into a slug-guy.

Just trying to help things along; it's been awhile since an update.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll be around to update again today but I'd really like the others to chip in grid squares first.  

Voadam, Gamad, and Chev didn't supply movement actions that I felt I could work with.    While I did get something for Brakkuks indicating that he'll want to stand between his friends and the slugs, I couldn't really post his location until getting something from the others.  

I tend to get become busy in the evening hours, so what I will do is wait for maybe four hours.  If the others haven't sauntered by the site in that time to supply gridsquare locations for their characters, I'll simply go ahead and move everyone into the mushroom cave and place them where I think they'd be most likely to go.  Four hours puts things at about 2 pm my time--if you're on the east coast, that's maybe 8 pm your time.  Hopefully that isn't late enough that you will already be in bed.


----------



## Ambrus

Fair enough. I'm in Montreal, which is indeed in the eastern standard time zone. And no, I won't be in bed by eight o'clock. 

Edit: Anyone seen Mista Collins around? He hasn't posted anything in a week and a half. :\


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I haven't seen him around but, then again, I myself largely skipped out on participating from Wednesday until this morning.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm about to go post a refreshed map.  Hang tight.


----------



## Ambrus

I see that you've started an initiative count, but it's not entirely clear to me; are the slugs acting at all threateningly with their rakes?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Not really, no.  Slug1 is approaching Brakkus with its rake in hand but pointed down.  Slug2 is raking.  Slug3 is mush in front of the iron door.  Slug4 has its rake in hand and is moving away from the group.  The initiative is count has been imposed by me in order to keep things neat and clean _*just in case*_ there ends up being combat.


----------



## Ambrus

Ah, I hadn't realized that slug 3 was the one that had been reduced to mush. Mael told the group that there were four slugs left instead of three. My mistake. 

FYI, Mael is going to stay put until Voadam has attempted and failed to discuss chaotic and/or lawful philosophy with the slug guys and then chosen a different tactic.


----------



## Mista Collins

I am here. I had computer issues and really wasn't able to post anything. Had to reformat my hard drive and re-install a ton of stuff. All seems to be working again.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

After the recent crush (Piercer on Gamad's head) Gamad will be in the back … always, until I note differently.


----------



## Voadam

Fine, just use the rod to tell us if the next piece is here. I had misremembered and thought Gamad had said there was a pool in addition to mushrooms.


----------



## Ambrus

Since the slug in front of him is already dead, Mael might as well move forward. He'll pursue a simpler approach and simply look around for the magic stick.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> After the recent crush (Piercer on Gamad's head) Gamad will be in the back … always, until I note differently.



Got it, thanks.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

No stick in sight, Voadam and Mal.  Also, the slug didn't utter a word in response to Voadam's question.  It actually has no mouth!


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> No stick in sight, Voadam and Mal.



Darn. Nothing is ever easy.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Darn. Nothing is ever easy.



Even when you try to bring back two dead conies ... It's always difficult


----------



## Ambrus

One! One dead rabbit is all I wanted and instead I got three skeletal dire rats and and army of POed evil treants beating me within an inch of my life! 

This is how Mael can tell he's a PC; NPCs don't have to deal with this kind of stuff. An NPC can live a long peaceful life farming the land without ever suffering a random encounter. A PC bends down to tie his shoe and ninjas leap out of his shadow.


----------



## SlagMortar

That's because the NPC farmer is actually a ninja in disguise, which you will learn if you try to attack him and steal his hoe.


----------



## Ambrus

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> That's because the NPC farmer is actually a ninja in disguise, which you will learn if you try to attack him and steal his hoe.



Dagnabit!


----------



## Voadam

SlagMortar said:
			
		

> That's because the NPC farmer is actually a ninja in disguise, which you will learn if you try to attack him and steal his hoe.




I don't want the hoe, I want the rod. And maybe their spears too.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> This is how Mael can tell he's a PC; NPCs don't have to deal with this kind of stuff. An NPC can live a long peaceful life farming the land without ever suffering a random encounter.



There were, admittedly, a couple of elements to the Take-Out Episode that were random-esque but, overall, the entire encounter actually had just about no randomness to it.  I tried decently hard with implied text and overt meta/OOC suggestions to dissuade you from going out there that night!

I hate ninjas.   



			
				Voadam said:
			
		

> I don't want the hoe, I want the rod. And maybe their spears too.



That's about as Freudian as a person can get.


----------



## Ambrus

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I tried decently hard with implied text and overt meta/OOC suggestions to dissuade you from going out there that night!



I know you did; it was plainly clear you didn't want Mael to go into the forest alone, if at all. I wasn't really complaining about what happened; it just sounds funny when put into words afterwards.

Problem was that there wasn't an in-game reason why Mael shouldn't have wanted to go. The forest is his turf, he's a monster and a creature of the night himself and he had never had any significant problems out there by himself before. Going to get meat and fire wood in the forest was the most normal thing Mael had done in the whole previous week. To Mael _staying_ with a party of half-crazy giant-kin is what seems creepy and weird.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> That's about as Freudian as a person can get.




Oh my. That's hilarious.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I wasn't really complaining about what happened; it just sounds funny when put into words afterwards.



As we often say to one another in our family, "It's funny 'cause it's true."


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'll try to get to a post for Kauai but I've had a dentist's appointment this afternoon and have some training for becoming a deacon tonight at my church.  It'll be late by the time I'm able to get to a post.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Sorry to've missed Monday.  Massively busy and too tuckered to post when I finally made it home at 9:15 pm last night.  

Voadam, I think you found the first bit of treasure in the game.  Other things have been handed out, I know--the scrolls come to mind, but unless I'm incorrectly remembering, this is the first time someone's discovered treasure while adventuring.   Sorry it cost you your PC's sword tip, though.  Heh.     Maybe you'll find a nifty new sword to replace it.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Sorry to've missed Monday.  Massively busy and too tuckered to post when I finally made it home at 9:15 pm last night.
> 
> Voadam, I think you found the first bit of treasure in the game.  Other things have been handed out, I know--the scrolls come to mind, but unless I'm incorrectly remembering, this is the first time someone's discovered treasure while adventuring.   Sorry it cost you your PC's sword tip, though.  Heh.     Maybe you'll find a nifty new sword to replace it.




The sword was the actually the first loot taken when I took it from Cheal after the initial scene, along with that fish hook symbol, the set of dice and two potions. No sweat on losing it, there are those spears, and I have improved unarmed for when the blade shatters in my hand. Better to lose a sword than a hand.


----------



## Ambrus

So is everyone joining Maelicent at the stone door?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

SlagMortar, sent you an e-mail for Brakkus's recognition of the gold coin.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm quickly approaching burnout.  I'm going to take a long weekend to rest.  Beg your collective pardon for the interruption to the game, but I need a few days off.  I'm thinking I'll be back on Wednesday.


----------



## Mista Collins

no need to beg for my pardon. I completely understand.


----------



## SlagMortar

No problem here.  I just had one of the more event filled weeks of my life so a break is welcome.  Take it easy.


----------



## Ambrus

Take the time you need; no worries. In all honesty, I can't imagine how you manage to juggle so many BPB games, take care of several young children and serve as a deacon for your church all at once. Hats off to you.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Howzit, you guys?    

My family is here visiting with us for the month of July.  The discrete mathematics isn't going so swimmingly for me either.  I have an A average in the class but somehow have managed to come away not knowing anything that's been taught to date.  Yeah, I'm scratching my head at that one, too.    

Anyway, I need to manage the precious bits of time that I have better than I have been and you guys need to know what to expect.  I estimate I need off from gaming until August 19th, possibly earlier.  I can take my final exam anytime between the 13th and the 19th of August--judging by how severly the discrete math is kicking my hind quarters at the moment, it'll be the latter date, not the former.  

Are you guys willing to put the game on hiatus for the next month until my plate clears?


----------



## Mista Collins

I have no problems putting the game on hiatus. I've really enjoyed it since I've joined and would hate to see it stop completely. Take your time with what you need to do. I know I will be here when we are heading to start again.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Are you guys willing to put the game on hiatus for the next month until my plate clears?




Yes.


----------



## Ambrus

Mael still has an evil oppressive forest to burn down. I'll be around.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Well, good.  Quick responses from three of you.  

And thank you.


----------



## SlagMortar

A hiatus is ok for me as well.  I've enjoyed the game very much thus far, and would rather you take a break than burn out completely.  Take the time you need.  I've taken discrete mathematics, too.


----------



## Ambrus

For those who haven't noticed, our dear CB has posted an update to the IC thread.


----------



## Mista Collins

noticed and posted. It was a nice surprise in my day.


----------



## Voadam

20 feet long is a big croc.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Yes, indeed, 20 feet long is big for a croc.  In fact, it's of the "giant" variety.    I know what I'd do in real life if I saw such a phenom.  RUN.  That, or faint.

...now I just have to create a room large enough to feasibly contain such a creature. Glad you guys saw and replied to the IC.  I figured I should throw up a post, even if it was a combat starter, to keep our thread from falling off the last page of the forum.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Bump.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Just wanted to pop in here to say that I'll be around today to resume posting.  Here in the next half a day I should have a post up for our IC.  I owe a combat post for Lanai team as well.

Slag_Mortar, what did you think of discrete mathematics when you took it?  The hardest topics for me to work my head around were set theory and mathematical induction.  While I can do the math, I'm still not sure I exactly get the "why" of things in those two areas.


----------



## Voadam

I've got links in my sig for both the ic and ooc threads for this game and my wildwood pbp game is active so you can usually find a post of mine to get to my sig if you don't want to bump the threads.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Very clever idea, that.  I'd been bumping because I wasn't sure when my CS account runs out and was worried that if I lost the Search feature I wouldn't be able to find our stuff again.  Thanks for letting me know there's a workaround available--that helps me relax.

If anyone doesn't know or isn't sure of his character's available spell slots and/or current HP, please speak up.  Now's a good time to hash this out, seeing as how we're resuming after more than a month's layoff.

I should also make mention that for the first time in ten years and for the first time in my family's history, we are, as of today, no longer in the military.  My husband hasn't yet obtained full-time gainful employment but he is actively seeking such.  Still, if work isn't found in short order, we intend to move back to the mainland.  Naturally, this will in turn mean yet another interruption to our game here.  I apologize for that, but am nevertheless hopeful that work will be found soon and that we will not need to move "home."  Our children are content at their school here, and we very much like our church here.  We would therefore like to stay and are currently exerting all our energy toward this goal.  If a move does prove necessary, it'll happen sometime in September or early October.  

Regarding WotC's announcement at GenCon late last week that 4th edition will be released May 2008, I currently do not plan to buy or implement 4E in any of my games.  In light of our anticipated tightening of the proverbial belt, I'm sure you understand that I'm loathe to spend money on a new complement of books.  Beyond that, I further confess that I seem to be becoming something of a grognard.  I really don't want to make the switch and therefore probably won't.  I intend to keep The Rod of Seven Parts 3.5 until either we finish it, or I run out of players.


----------



## Mista Collins

I agree with you CB. I plan on keeping with 3.5 for quite sometime. Who knows..mayeb i will stick with 3.5 until 5e comes out.

As for spells, I am pretty sure Chev hasn't cast any since resting, but I may be wrong.


----------



## Ambrus

The last thing to damage Mael was a rampaging tree of the Old Forest.


----------



## Voadam

Voadam is at full hp, but down his ray of enfeeblement, mage armor (active), ray of frost, and light spells. 

Dart time for Voadam.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

I keep record on Gamad’s sheet in the RG


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ah, sweet crocodile!
Thy teeth, razors,
Thy breath, death!


----------



## Voadam

*5-7-5 haiku form*

Poor Chev the cleric
Bitten by a big crocodile
who will heal healer?

. . . 


Naughty crocodile
Do not chew our good cleric
Pretty pretty please

. . .

Is it now too late
For Voadam to switch his action
And cure light wounds Chev?

. . .

Wands plus a ranger
Are a good backup healer
For downed clerics


----------



## SlagMortar

Hey, thanks for the email, CB.  I'm excited to get back in the game.  I'll post in the IC when I get back up to speed.


----------



## SlagMortar

CB said:
			
		

> Slag_Mortar, what did you think of discrete mathematics when you took it? The hardest topics for me to work my head around were set theory and mathematical induction. While I can do the math, I'm still not sure I exactly get the "why" of things in those two areas.



I did pretty well in it, but it definitely made me think in a way I had not before.  Induction especially is tricky since you can work for a very long time with just slightly the wrong hypothesis and never get any closer to a proof and then someone shows you the right hypothesis and it turns out easy.


----------



## Voadam

Voadam said:
			
		

> . . .
> 
> Is it now too late
> For Voadam to switch his action
> And cure light wounds Chev?
> 
> . . .




Never Mind CB
That round is done and resolved
Onward, never look back!


----------



## Mista Collins

ugh....how about we eat some croc meat once this is done.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> ugh....how about we eat some croc meat once this is done.




From what I read in the IC it's Chev's meat mixed with some Croc's meat.


----------



## Mista Collins

“I believe that if ever I had to practice cannibalism, I might manage if there were enough tarragon around.” - James Beard


----------



## CanadienneBacon

"Crock"-a-Chev will be served for supper sharply at 7 p.m..


----------



## Ambrus

Mael hasn't had any fresh human since he ate Lewi... Never mind.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Well...I admit he hasn't eaten her yet, but Maelicent _does_ have a human noble smoking in the cave.  I assume, then, that the smoked girl will be served as hors d'oeuvre ere we break out the croque du Chev?  Very good, a nice beaujolais might do nicely with that.  Or does Sir prefer a Chateauneuf du Pape?


----------



## Ambrus

Silly. Everyone knows you serve human with a nice Chianti.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

And here I thought it was only the fava beans that mattered when it came to Chianti.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Just waiting on Voadam to post before forwarding things.  As the baby is napping and her morning nap is the time of day I allot myself for posting, I will probably begin working on a combat post this hour so that I can simply add Voadam's in whenever he provides it.


----------



## Ambrus

I'm anticipating another round of him curing poor Chev.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I caught myself on an earlier error.  Wand activation does not normally incur an AoO.  Apologies, Voadam.  Good thing the crocodile had missed.  

I'll leave the record unedited, but the error is noted and hopefully will not be repeated in the future.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I caught myself on an earlier error.  Wand activation does not normally incur an AoO.  Apologies, Voadam.  Good thing the crocodile had missed.
> 
> I'll leave the record unedited, but the error is noted and hopefully will not be repeated in the future.




No problem. And not the first time Voadam has suffered from that specific rules error   . The first time was in the Banewarrens when Voadam was ambushed by a couple of ogre minions of a bad guy. I drew a wand because I was threatened by both and started blasting lightning bolts, drawing two attacks of opportunity. I pointed out the rules quote in the PH and the DM said "That's wrong, I'm sure it provokes an AoO. I think that's just a chart misprint." and stuck with his ruling. At that point I stopped rules arguing and instead focused back on the game and used a flying move action (I had already been flying) to withdraw to then position myself to blast them from relative safety in the next couple of rounds. We quickly got back into the swing of the combat instead of devolving into a rules argument and it was still a fun encounter. The DM later realized it was not a chart error and apologized but we all agreed it was better to keep going at the table with an error rather than halt the game for an argument.


----------



## Voadam

Can someone prone move 5' without drawing an AoO? I want to clear a path for Chev if it will help.


----------



## Voadam

Alternatively, can I grab chev and drag him to a safer distance without provoking AoOs?

For instance a grapple would only provoke one from Chev, and then I automatically draw him into my space I believe. I might be able to then five foot step back without provoking any AoOs.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> Can someone prone move 5' without drawing an AoO? I want to clear a path for Chev if it will help.



Not normally no. Both standing up from prone and crawling 5 ft. as a move action each provoke attacks of opportunity.







			
				Voadam said:
			
		

> Alternatively, can I grab chev and drag him to a safer distance without provoking AoOs?



As far as I know, there aren't really any rules that govern the moving of other characters, so its entirely up to CB.







			
				Voadam said:
			
		

> For instance a grapple would only provoke one from Chev, and then I automatically draw him into my space I believe.



In a grapple it's the attacker who moves into his opponent's space.


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> In a grapple it's the attacker who moves into his opponent's space.



You're right, step 4 at the end of the round to maintain a grapple is to move into their space. I deal with improved grab (which draws the victim into the attacker's space) too often and normal grapple not often enough. I also immediately thought of the -20 one armed style action, but remembered that that was only for improved grab.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I'm about to head over to the IC to do up the next iteration of combat.  We can discuss the rules issue(s) even though I intend to forward combat.  No sense stopping play for this issue.  For the purpose of this round only, Chev can (from the prone position) crawl five feet away without incurring an AoO.  For the purpose of this round only, if Voadam aids Chev in Chev's withdrawl, Voadam will incur an AoO if Voadam drags Chev more than 5 feet.  

Now, with that settled for the round, here are my questions regarding this particular situation.


			
				Ambrus said:
			
		

> Voadam said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Can someone prone move 5' without drawing an AoO? I want to clear a path for Chev if it will help.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Not normally no. Both standing up from prone and crawling 5 ft. as a move action each provoke attacks of opportunity.
Click to expand...


Ambrus, do you have a PHB page number reference or an SRD quote to support the idea that crawling 5 ft draws an AoO?  I checked the PHB this morning (pp 137, 144) and confirmed my belief that taking a 5 ft step never incurs an AoO.  The section as I read it didn't specifically mention crawling per se, though.  I'm inclined to allow a 5 ft crawl without drawing an AoO, personally.  As an interesting aside purely out of curiousity, I could benefit from seeing something concrete regarding crawling, if you know of such a tidbit.

Regarding withdrawing, "If, during the process of withdrawing, you move out of a threatened square (*other than the one you started in*), enemies get attacks of opportunity as normal." (PHB 143) Because of the croc's 10-foot reach, withdrawing through a second threatened square will incur an AoO.

Under Move Action (see table 8-2), Moving a heavy object incurs an AoO.  Chev _could_ be considered a heavy object.  Voadam _might_ incur an AoO but Chev would not (as Chev is the one being moved).  This assumes that Chev continues to lie prone, makes relatively little effort to hinder Voadam's retrieval, and makes no aggressive effort against the crocodile.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

XP has been calculated and will be sent out right now via e-mail.  Please speak up if you do not receive your XP.

After the battle with the crocodile, Chev is now 3rd level.  Congratulations!  Since Chev reached 3rd level during August, he has been awarded 3rd-level active RP XP for the entire month of August.  Basically, that's 300 vice 200 XP.  Only a hundred more, but with 4th level a distant 6000, I guess every little drop in the bucket helps.


----------



## SlagMortar

Whew!  That was quite the nasty creature!


> Ambrus, do you have a PHB page number reference or an SRD quote to support the idea that crawling 5 ft draws an AoO?



I found crawling is here, just down from the move heading.  
There is also a note under taking a 5 foot step that a creature with a speed of 5 feet can't take 5-foot step, and that you can not take a 5-foot step using a form of movement for which you do not have a listed speed.  "Crawl" isn't really a "form of movement" like "Swim" or "Fly", but I think those two things taken together mean you can't "take 5-foot step" while crawling.  Being prone is bad, bad, bad.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for the link, SlagMortar.  The tidbit on crawling fairly well settles the issue.  ie:  crawling 5 ft is NOT the same as a 5-ft step or withdrawing.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> I deal with improved grab (which draws the victim into the attacker's space) too often and normal grapple not often enough. I also immediately thought of the -20 one armed style action, but remembered that that was only for improved grab.



Uh. I'm not certain what you're referring to. As far as I can see the improved grapple feat doesn't have any effect on having to move into your opponent's square. I'm also not sure what you mean by the "-20 one armed style action". Sorry.







			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> The tidbit on crawling fairly well settles the issue.  ie:  crawling 5 ft is NOT the same as a 5-ft step or withdrawing.



Also, keep in mind that withdrawing is a normally a full-round action. Since Chev declared that he was using the total defense action the previous round (normally a standard action) he wouldn't have been also able to withdraw even with Voadam's help (who was acting ahead of Chev). So even being dragged out of that first 5-ft. square would have provoked an AoO. At least that's my interpretation.

Nice combat BTW CB. Welcome back!


----------



## Voadam

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Uh. I'm not certain what you're referring to. As far as I can see the improved grapple feat doesn't have any effect on having to move into your opponent's square. I'm also not sure what you mean by the "-20 one armed style action". Sorry.




That's because I was referring to Improved Grab, not Improved Grapple   



> Improved Grab
> 
> If a creature with this special attack hits with a melee weapon (usually a claw or bite attack), it deals normal damage and attempts to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. No initial touch attack is required.
> 
> Unless otherwise noted, improved grab works only against opponents at least one size category smaller than the creature. *The creature has the option to conduct the grapple normally, or simply use the part of its body it used in the improved grab to hold the opponent. If it chooses to do the latter, it takes a -20 penalty on grapple checks, but is not considered grappled itself; the creature does not lose its Dexterity bonus to AC, still threatens an area, and can use its remaining attacks against other opponents.*
> 
> A successful hold does not deal any extra damage unless the creature also has the constrict special attack. If the creature does not constrict, each successful grapple check it makes during successive rounds automatically deals the damage indicated for the attack that established the hold. Otherwise, it deals constriction damage as well (the amount is given in the creature’s descriptive text).
> 
> *When a creature gets a hold after an improved grab attack, it pulls the opponent into its space. This act does not provoke attacks of opportunity. It can even move (possibly carrying away the opponent), provided it can drag the opponent’s weight.*




DMing a high level game with a druid who likes dire bear form I'm most familiar with this set of grapple rules.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> That's because I was referring to Improved Grab, not Improved Grapple



Ah. I'd never noticed that that the improved grab rules were so different. Thanks for the heads up.  

And now that I know they're about to change the whole system yet again. Muh.


----------



## Mista Collins

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Ah. I'd never noticed that that the improved grab rules were so different. Thanks for the heads up.
> 
> And now that I know they're about to change the whole system yet again. Muh.




Yep, and one of those changes is getting rid of grapple. I think we may have found the reason.


----------



## Mista Collins

Chev is leveled up. I rolled another 9 on Invisible Castle for hit points. If we ever run into a giant croc again, he is going to need every single one.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

*Absent Notification*

I'll be away to a scientific conference in Bulgaria from 2/9 to 9/9.
My internet Time will be limited.
I'll resume full posting in Monday 10/9.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Good to know, thanks.


----------



## Dire Lemming

Good grief, call me an idiot but I never bothered looking at this thread before.  I'd love to play in your campaign setting again CB, if you ever need another player.  I promise I won't play a fighter with an aversion to killing this time!  Actually, I have no idea what this game is about except that it's in your homebrew setting... hm.   I usually read the IC thread before I post in the OOC thread.

Hm, Hellenic, language of barbarians... lol.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

We had a kobold paladin, who knows where he is.   
Argent Silvermage is long forgotten.


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> We had a kobold paladin, who knows where he is.



I think the dragon he went off to speak with ate him. I hear that's fairly common for dragons.


----------



## Mista Collins

Ambrus said:
			
		

> I think the dragon he went off to speak with ate him. I hear that's fairly common for dragons.




I wouldn't be surprised. I hear this campaign is full of giant lizards trying to eat PCs.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> I hear this campaign is full of giant lizards trying to eat PCs.



It is?  I had no idea!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Actually, I have no idea what this game is about except that it's in your homebrew setting... hm.   I usually read the IC thread before I post in the OOC thread.



The adventure is from the 2nd edition boxed set, The Rod of Seven Parts.  The concept behind the adventure supposes a giant octopus-like betentacled demon queen from the Abyss who sends her minions into the material prime to retrieve a rod, broken into seven parts and scattered throughout the prime.  In true old school style, the whole of it is actually very railroady and full of the worst cliches and dramatizations.  I'm attempting to alter enough of the game progession here and there to make it less predictable but, IMO, it hasn't turned out to be the tour de force that I'd wanted.  Right now, by far and away the best thing about it (and, dare I add, the only thing that's kept it all interesting) is the set of characters we have.  Brakkus, Chev, Gamad the Albino, Voadam, and last but certainly not least the goblin Maelicent have kept my attention.


----------



## Ambrus

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> I wouldn't be surprised. I hear this campaign is full of giant lizards trying to eat PCs.



Not the goblin PCs though; they're very very bitter.


----------



## Mista Collins

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Not the goblin PCs though; they're very very bitter.




True, I hear goblins have to watch out for trees.


----------



## Ambrus

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> True, I hear goblins have to watch out for trees.



There is that...


----------



## Voadam

And whole forests have to watch out for goblins.

Remember, awakened black bear rangers say only you can prevent mythical dark forest fires, Maelicent.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Current HP after the explosion:

Brakkus 14/34
Gamad 2/17
Voadam 7/21
Chev 14/28

That's based on what appears in the RG.  Let me know if that's incorrect.


----------



## SlagMortar

Brakkus took 13 from the croc that was never healed.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks.  I've amended the tally above.


----------



## Voadam

Really bad timing on the mending spell.


----------



## Mista Collins

It's the thought that counts


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Just softening you up for the kill, thass all.


----------



## Mista Collins

As for HP, I have no idea where Chev is because he was so up and down that entire battle. Unless the leveling magically healed him, I would assume he is really low in HP..if not unconscious again.


----------



## Voadam

> The thrumming has ceased, rendering the hexagonal chamber silent. The lower right edge of the rune engraved upon the eastern doors is smudged, as if someone had taken a giant eraser to it and wiped away a third of its content. The runes and yellow and blue gem upon the northern and southern doors remain intact.



 Is that rune erasure new from the explosion or something we just noticed on further inspection?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

New from the explosion.  Sorry that was not clear upon first read.


----------



## Voadam

I'm really kicking myself for staying in the gem magic room while one had a widening crack and emanated a bone jarring vibration that increased to the point where ceiling fixtures were shaking. Oh well, not dead yet so live and hopefully learn.


----------



## Ambrus

Voadam said:
			
		

> I'm really kicking myself for staying in the gem magic room while one had a widening crack and emanated a bone jarring vibration that increased to the point where ceiling fixtures were shaking.



Don't be so hard on yourself. All the giant-folk made the same mistake.


----------



## Voadam

Is there a stone cracking sound that I missed outside of the grinding of the gears and door mechanism?

Stymied by a door, if the Rod doesn't work in opening it (or in pointing to the croc's stomach) I say we go with Chev's plan.

Sometimes I just hit walls with obstacles or puzzles like this in games. The only other thing I can think of would be prying out the stone or erasing the rune, but those didn't open the east door so I don't think they will work here.


----------



## Voadam

It recently hit me that being a wizard with a bunch of darts and no crossbow for when I run out of spells I could fit right in as a stock 1e/2e magic-user.  Voadam, a retro character for an old edition module


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> Is there a stone cracking sound that I missed outside of the grinding of the gears and door mechanism?



I'm not sure I get what you're asking, but I'll attempt an answer.  If you don't feel you've gotten an adequate reply, let me know.  No, there wasn't a stone cracking sound that accompanied or was otherwise heard by anyone else in the room when the grinding of the gears began.  There was no stone cracking sound that was heard when Voadam examined the southern doors.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> I'm not sure I get what you're asking, but I'll attempt an answer.  If you don't feel you've gotten an adequate reply, let me know.  No, there wasn't a stone cracking sound that accompanied or was otherwise heard by anyone else in the room when the grinding of the gears began.  There was no stone cracking sound that was heard when Voadam examined the southern doors.




I just wanted to make sure after Gamad's comments about earth cracking noises that I wasn't missing anything obvious when I disregarded his prophecy of doom.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Voadam said:
			
		

> I just wanted to make sure after Gamad's comments about earth cracking noises that I wasn't missing anything obvious when I disregarded his prophecy of doom.




What Gamad meant about the cracking are “the grinding of the gears”
For him its sounds like the walls are going to move and fall on top of your heads.
Beside it, don’t forget the Gamad cannot see the room, he lies somewhere and leans *BADLY INJURED* on the croc’s body.
I wonder why no one helps him despite his pleas for help.


----------



## Voadam

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> What Gamad meant about the cracking are “the grinding of the gears”
> For him its sounds like the walls are going to move and fall on top of your heads.
> Beside it, don’t forget the Gamad cannot see the room, he lies somewhere and leans *BADLY INJURED* on the croc’s body.
> I wonder why no one helps him despite his pleas for help.




We need to save the cleric spells to get us through the door if the next segment is not in the croc stomach and the rod doesn't open the doors. Voadam took as much damage as you but he's using his limited resource magics to heal you and not himself. So suck it up dwarf


----------



## Mista Collins

Chev was too occupied with figure out these doors. 

And I was oblivious to the fact of how injured Gamad actually was. Opps.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Anyone know where Ambrus has got off to?


----------



## Ambrus

Strahd_Von_Zarovich said:
			
		

> I wonder why no one helps him despite his pleas for help.



I helped the poor guy to safety; but noooo the goblin gets no thanks for his help. Muh.  


			
				CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Anyone know where Ambrus has got off to?



Sorry. You can call off the hounds. Been a bit busy. I didn't think it had been that long since I'd posted; not a great deal that involved Mael was happening, so I was content to just let him keep prying out teeth until it was agreed that he should butcher the croc or someone opened a door. Now that the door is open he'll likely head over there if people agree to proceed along.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

Thanks Ambrus   

Just wanted to say Happy new year folks, Today we celebrate the Israeli new year.


----------



## Ambrus

Happy Rosh Hashanah Strahd!


----------



## Mista Collins

Though I know nothing of Rosh Hashanah, have fun celebrating!


----------



## Ambrus

Mista Collins said:
			
		

> Though I know nothing of Rosh Hashanah, have fun celebrating!



I'm sure Strahd can tell you all about it, but in short, it's a two day holy celebration in which the Jewish new year is celebrated with various prayers and rituals. By the Jewish calendar, the year is 5768. Since the Jewish and Julian calendars don't mesh, the exact date changes from year to year (in the Julian one that is).

This reminds me that I have to remember to call a friend's mother to wish her a happy new year.


----------



## SlagMortar

Happy new year to you to Strahd!


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Thanks for popping in to reply, Ambrus.  It's unlike you to not post for a few days in a row, which is what prompted me to inquire.  Other players (or DMs, for that matter) on EN World won't post for a week and I won't bat an eyelash, but you normally don't miss many days.

Strahd, Happy New Year to you!  I'm surprised you're here today.  Thought you'd be off enjoying a day with friends and family.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

I set the Survival DC to butcher the crocodile at 12.  The hide is tough and the croc is somewhat exotic in that it's unusually large, but then again the beast's large size will perhaps be a help in gutting it--it'll be a little easier to cut around organs than it might otherwise be on, say, a tiny or diminuitive creature.


----------



## Ambrus

That seems fine to me. I'm not certain what the various Search checks were for though. Is there a chance the four of us missed something during our three hour search of the Croc's insides?


----------



## Voadam

To save you having to make more rolls, any time Voadam can take 10 for success (such as DC 12 survival at +3) I'm happy to skip the rolls as an SOP.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Ambrus said:
			
		

> That seems fine to me. I'm not certain what the various Search checks were for though. Is there a chance the four of us missed something during our three hour search of the Croc's insides?



In a giant-sized crocodile that you guys gutted and searched?  There was a chance, yes.  Thus the roll.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

Voadam said:
			
		

> To save you having to make more rolls, any time Voadam can take 10 for success (such as DC 12 survival at +3) I'm happy to skip the rolls as an SOP.



I did the Survival rolls to see how much time you guys would be able to shave off the gutting of the crocodile.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

If the group is able to reach agreement on what your next course of action is to be, I'll be able to forward the IC thread later tonight or Friday.  Thus far, choices proposed by various group members seem to be gutting the owlbear and searching the rest of the network of caves.  If you will not be gutting the owlbear, please let me know if you're going to venture into the new area beyond the southern doors of the hexagonal chamber or if you'll be spelunking elsewhere.

Or...as players are usually a canny lot...doing something your DM completely and totally will not expect!


----------



## Mista Collins

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> Or...as players are usually a canny lot...doing something your DM completely and totally will not expect!




I like option #3.


----------



## Voadam

I just wanted to confirm that my memory of the owlbear stuff was correct, that there was no evidence it came from this rod holding chamber.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

The group originally found a squished slug in front of the open iron door and Maelicent tracked the owlbear to the door.  The antechamber preceeding the hallway leading to the hexagonal chamber is littered with the owlbear's nest material.


----------



## Voadam

CanadienneBacon said:
			
		

> The group originally found a squished slug in front of the open iron door and Maelicent tracked the owlbear to the door.  The antechamber preceeding the hallway leading to the hexagonal chamber is littered with the owlbear's nest material.




That's roughly what I remembered, a nest area it came out of from outside of the chamber.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

One of my children has a fever and flu-like symptoms.  I had her at home today, caring for her, and will likely have her out of kindergarten tomorrow as well.  Apologies, but until she is well enough to return to school, I will be otherwise occupied and won't be posting.


----------



## Ambrus

Poor dear. Take care of your own; we'll be around when you get back.


----------



## SlagMortar

Best wishes for her feeling better.


----------



## Red Herring

Does this team need a cleric?


----------



## CanadienneBacon

> Does this team need a cleric?



Sorry, no.  Welcome to the boards, though.  

All--sent you guys an email just now.  Please do check your inboxes when you have a moment.


----------



## Strahd_Von_Zarovich

*Gamad*

Touching the Rod in his pocket, Gamad then scream.
I see Darkness, it is coming … Nooooo
Then all turn black.

It was fun gaming with you CB.
Take care.


----------



## CanadienneBacon

It was great gaming with you guys.  Thanks and best wishes!


----------

