# Classics of Fantasy



## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2004)

The Wizards of the Coast books page generally discusses upcoming Wizards of the Coast books -- so I never gave it a look.  Then, one day, a web search brought me to one of their excellent "Classics of Fantasy" articles.  I found a number of "Classics of Fantasy" articles in the archives:

Hobberdy Dick
The Hobbit
The Books of Wonder
Tales of Averoigne
The Book of Three Dragons
Watership Down
The Night Land
The Face in the Frost
A Wizard of Earthsea
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath
The Worm Ouroboros
Bridge of Birds
A Voyage to Arcturus
Silverlock
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
Collected Ghost Stories
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld
The Well at the World's End


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## nikolai (Jan 31, 2004)

Yes, it's absolutely fantastic isn't it. I only saw it when it was linked to on the boards, not being that interesting in Wizards' fiction. John Rateliff really knows what he's talking about and, so far as I know, there's no-one else attempting anything like this anywhere else on the net.

Thanks for linking to all the articles, it beats having to trall the archive. They should give it it's own page.


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2004)

nikolai said:
			
		

> Yes, it's absolutely fantastic isn't it.



Definitely.


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> I only saw it when it was linked to on the boards, not being that interesting in Wizards' fiction.



Yeah, I snuck it into a few threads; then I realized it deserved its own thread.


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> John Rateliff really knows what he's talking about and, so far as I know, there's no-one else attempting anything like this anywhere else on the net.



That's what I find peculiar.  I haven't found any similar series of essays.  (If anyone else has found similar essays though, by all means, fire away!)


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> Thanks for linking to all the articles, it beats having to trall the archive. They should give it it's own page.



You're welcome.  They definitely should promote these articles somehow.


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2004)

Some excerpts from the essay on The Well at the World's End, by William Morris (1896): 

Morris not only served as Tolkien's personal role-model as a writer but is also responsible for fantasy's characteristic medievalism and the emphasis on what Tolkien called the subcreated world: a self-consistent fantasy setting resembling our own world but distinct from it. Before Morris, fantasy settings generally resembled the arbitrary dreamscapes of Carroll's Wonderland and MacDonald's fairy tales; Morris shifted the balance to a pseudo-medieval world that was realistic in the main but independent of real-world history and included fantastic elements such as the elusive presence of magical creatures.

Ironically, Morris did not intend to help create a new genre but was seeking to revive a very old one: He was attempting to recreate the medieval romance -- those sprawling quest-stories of knights and ladies, heroes and dastards, friends, enemies, and lovers, marvels and simple pleasures and above all adventures. The most familiar examples of such tales to modern readers are the many stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, but these were merely the most well-known among a vast multitude of now-forgotten tales. Morris deliberately sat down to write new stories in the same vein and even something of the same style, right down to deliberately archaic word choice. But just as the creators of opera thought they were recreating classical Greek drama a la Aeschylus and wound up giving birth to a new art form instead, so too did Morris's new medieval tales belong to a new genre: the fantasy novel.
[...]
Then too, the book contains a number of striking scenes, characters, and motifs that could be transplanted into an ongoing campaign and are worth reading in their own right: the Champions of the Dry Tree, which is a slightly sinister Robin-Hood like band of greenwoods robbers; their mortal foes, the men of the Burg of the Four Friths, who wage constant raids on their neighbors to acquire sex-slaves; the rebellion of the slave-women (the Wheat-Wearers), who take up arms to save themselves when no one else is willing to help them; the Lady, a sexy yet ambiguous figure whose history forms a novella within the work as a whole; the Well whose waters grant youth, beauty, and longevity but not immunity to a violent death; and perhaps above all the chapters describing Ralph and his lover's grisly journey across the Thirsty Desert, which drives home the point that many undertake the quest but only the fortunate few, the destined heroes, achieve it. [3] The Dry Tree at the heart of the desert is also a striking motif and is encountered many times as a sigil or emblem before revealed to actually exist in physical form. 
[...]
[3]SPOILER: 



Spoiler



In one of the book's most striking scenes, the young lovers crossing the desert begin to find the bodies of those who failed in the quest before them -- first one or two whom they stop to bury, then a whole line of desiccated corpses marking a grisly path across the wasteland where they laid down to die along the way. The Dry Tree itself, when they finally reach it, is revealed as a vast dead tree rising up out of a pool of water at the heart of a natural amphitheater, every seat filled with the bodies of men and women who fell under the Tree's allure, questers who sat down to die here with a smile on their faces. Along with the vivid depiction of the Wheat-Wearers' mistreatment and rebellion and the sudden brutal death of one of the three main characters, the Dry Tree remains in the reader's memory after the details of the rest of the book have faded.


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## Aeris Winterood (Jan 31, 2004)

*It is cool...*

I just read a few of them... Not too bad.....


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2004)

The intro to the essay on The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, by Patricia A. McKillip (1974), states some interesting opinions on fantasy:

Not every "classic" of fantasy was written a century ago. Books as good as any ever published by the late great masters of the genre -- Dunsany, Eddison, Morris, Cabell, et al. -- were also being written in the 1960s (The Face in the Frost, A Wizard of Earthsea), the 1970s (Watership Down), the 1980s (The Bridge of Birds) and even the 1990s (The Golden Compass), many of them by authors still alive today. All are remarkable not just for their exceptional excellence but because they break new ground rather than follow current trends (masterpieces always defy conventional wisdom), although ironically some of them have themselves become much imitated in turn.

One book that stands alone is The Forgotten Beasts of Eld, as it has no obvious precursor nor inspires a subgenre or "school" of followers; there is nothing else quite like it, even among McKillip's other writings. Whereas some fantasy classics dazzle the reader by the twists and turns of their plot or enthrall them with a seductively appealing subcreated world, McKillip's stands out by the sheer beauty of the writing. Some say that modern fantasy is today's equivalent of the pulp novel of the 1920s and 1930s, and readers who have become accustomed to the adequate prose of a generic trilogy manipulating standard characters through a conventional plot, where the villain dies in the next-to-last chapter with the final few pages for happily-ever-after, may have their breath taken away by McKillip's evocative, lapidary style:

"The giant Grof was hit in one eye by a stone,
and that eye turned inward so that it looked into his mind,
and he died of what he saw there."​


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2004)

Aeris Winterood said:
			
		

> I just read a few of them... Not too bad.....



I'm glad you liked them, Aeris.  Have you decided to pick up any of the books?  (I know I have...)


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## CCamfield (Jan 31, 2004)

I've read a few of these already... based on the excerpts posted, I'll be getting The Well At World's End out of the local uni library the next time I'm there.


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## mmadsen (Jan 31, 2004)

CCamfield said:
			
		

> I've read a few of these already...



That brings up a question: which classics have you read?

I've read:

The Hobbit -- as a kid and as an adult; loved it at every age
Watership Down -- as a kid; loved it
A Wizard of Earthsea -- a few years ago; didn't thrill me
The Worm Ouroboros -- loved it, but the archaic language might be too much for some...
Bridge of Birds -- absolutely loved it; very fun
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser -- as a kid; tried to re-read as an adult; haven't read the "good" stories as an adult yet

I have not yet read:

Hobberdy Dick
The Books of Wonder
Tales of Averoigne
The Book of Three Dragons
The Night Land
The Face in the Frost
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath
A Voyage to Arcturus
Silverlock
Collected Ghost Stories
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld
The Well at the World's End


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## nikolai (Jan 31, 2004)

I've read:

The Hobbit: No Comment.
Tales of Averoigne: Ashton Smith is really... disturbed. Averoigne is good, and it's not even his best stuff - that would be Zothique. Really macabre and creepy. And some of his stuff is a huge influence on D&D, and www.eldritchdark.com is a fantastic website. Outclassed both Howard and Lovecraft.
A Wizard of Earthsea: It was a long time ago. I didn't think it was that great them, but I was young. I remeber some of the tomb stuff being cool and the magic system is interesting.
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath: There's not really much you can say about Lovecraft. Weird stuff.
Collected Ghost Stories: Very finely crafted and understated horror. I while ago I spent a lot of time reading classic victorian ghost stories, and along with JS LeFanu, this is the best. The ghosts themselves are very well thought out and effectively used.

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser: Just bought. I'll let you know which are the good stories when I've found them.

It's interesting to note who hasn't been done: Peake, TH White, Howard, Moorcock... It'll be interesting to see what he says.


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## mmadsen (Feb 1, 2004)

nikolai said:
			
		

> The Hobbit: No Comment.



No comment?


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> Tales of Averoigne: Ashton Smith is really... disturbed. Averoigne is good, and it's not even his best stuff - that would be Zothique. Really macabre and creepy. And some of his stuff is a huge influence on D&D, and www.eldritchdark.com is a fantastic website. Outclassed both Howard and Lovecraft.



Strong statement!  I've been meaning to read my Clark Ashton Smith compilation (The Emperor of Dreams); I may have to move it up in the queue.


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> A Wizard of Earthsea: It was a long time ago. I didn't think it was that great them, but I was young. I remeber some of the tomb stuff being cool and the magic system is interesting.



Yeah, it didn't leave much of an imprint on me either.


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath: There's not really much you can say about Lovecraft. Weird stuff.



For all I know, I _have_ read this...  As much as I enjoy Dunsany's work, Lovecraft's pastiches do nothing for me.


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> Collected Ghost Stories: Very finely crafted and understated horror. I while ago I spent a lot of time reading classic victorian ghost stories, and along with JS LeFanu, this is the best. The ghosts themselves are very well thought out and effectively used.



I enjoyed the one M.R. James story I read, so I should pick up a compilation.


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser: Just bought. I'll let you know which are the good stories when I've found them.



I may go back and read some of the "good" ones m'self.


> It's interesting to note who hasn't been done: Peake, TH White, Howard, Moorcock... It'll be interesting to see what he says.



It _is_ interesting.  He has _mentioned_ most of the biggies, but they haven't received their own essays (yet).


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## CCamfield (Feb 1, 2004)

The Hobbit - An absolute classic and wonderful book.  My dad read it to me over successive nights as a bedtime story.  
The Books of Wonder - Haven't read it, but I've read several other books by Dunsany which were very good
Watership Down - I wonder if I don't think it's a bit overrated, but still very good
A Wizard of Earthsea - Yep, definite classic.  Notable for its non-European setup, its well-defined magic, and mature theme of dealing with the consequences of one's actions.
The Worm Ouroboros - Lots of fun.  I wouldn't have called it like the Iliad, but great baroque fantasy fun.
Bridge of Birds - Brilliant.  Funny, moving, exciting...
Silverlock - I have read this.  This past year.  I thought it was *complete and utter dreck*.  Seriously.  The main character remains an absolute twit even after he's repeatedly been shown when he's been wrong.
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser - Read them all back in high school and some since, Ye Classic Swords & Sorcery...
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld - I haven't read this since high school, but McKillip is an excellent author and I am sure this is a very good (IIRC) young adult fantasy.


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 2, 2004)

Hey, thanks for starting this thread, *mmadsen*. I wasn't aware that Rateliff had reviewed so many fantasy classics. I find his reviewing style a bit convoluted, but he gets the point across: these are great books, worth reading.

As to what I've read:

*The Hobbit* - of course. Like CCamfield, my father read it to me when I was little. He then continued by reading the entire _Lord of the Rings_ to me as well! It took about a year all told.

*Watership Down* - my childhood friend Jamie had to beg me over and over to read this. "I don't know," I said; "It's about rabbits." But as Rateliff points out, it's really about so much more than that. I was immediately spellbound and drawn into the story, and melancholy when it came to an end.

*The Face in the Frost* - this book scared the daylights out of my when I was younger. In my mind I always think of it in conjunction with Susan Cooper's _The Dark is Rising_ series (which I hope Rateliff reviews at some point), probably because I read them around the same time. Too bad _Face in the Frost_ is out of print now; I would like to re-read it.

*A Wizard of Earthsea* - I agree with Rateliff that this is one of the very best fantasy sagas of our time. Like everyone else, I wanted to be Ged, desperately and forcefully as only a child can wish for something impossible. (I was not aware that Le Guin had retro-engineered her world to make it politically correct; how awful.)

*The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath* - Weirdly, I read this book surreptitiously while attending Sunday school. I'm sure that's some sort of sin. Anyway, I disagree with Rateliff that it is Lovecraft's best work; although it may be HPL's most well-realized work, it is, as others have pointed out, a Dunsany pastiche. I also am astounded that Rateliff doesn't find any of HPL's horror tales truly horrific. Surely I am not the only one to get shivers down my spine from stories like _The Colour out of Space_ or _The Shadow out of Time_.

= = =

Rateliff mentions, in his review of _Face in the Frost_, the list of recommended reading at the back of the first edition _Dungeon Master's Guide_. That list set me on the path of reading fantasy classics - although I can see from the shortness of my list above that I left much undone! I commend Gary Gygax for his good taste in including that list. Hooray for D&D.


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## Wombat (Feb 2, 2004)

Okay, going down the list...

Hobberdy Dick  -- never even heard of it...
The Hobbit -- a lovely book, not as good as LotR, of course, but still fun
The Books of Wonder -- It's Dunsany.  It's good  
Tales of Averoigne -- Smith is very atmospheric, Old School Gothic (a la Byron and Radcliffe) mixed with post-WWI sickness.  Disturbing in some ways, but a lovely read.
The Book of Three Dragons -- never read
Watership Down -- may all the powers preserve me from reading anything by Adams again; both this and Shardik bored me beyond tears.
The Night Land -- never read
The Face in the Frost -- never even heard of it
A Wizard of Earthsea -- one of the quintessential works of fantasy fiction, a lovely meditation on the difference between the ability to do a thing and when should actually act, beautifully written, a world that I would love to turn into a game, I cannot say enough for this whole series
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath -- probably my favourite Lovecraft work, obviously his nod to Dunsany.  Weird, wild, and very, very good.
The Worm Ouroboros -- Another pre-Tolkein bit, it is strange, at times stilted, and very atmospheric; this is the grandfather of Tanith Lee's writing
Bridge of Birds -- I am a rare soul, in that I loathed this book.  Didn't bother with the sequels.
A Voyage to Arcturus -- Never even heard of it
Silverlock -- tried to read it when it came out in paper, never finished it, thought of going back to it many times but kept putting other books ahead of it
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser -- fun stuff!  I love these two!  They don't always win, but they rarely are down long enough to really hurt.  It's all about Issek of the Jug!  
Collected Ghost Stories -- Mixed bag (as with all collections of short stories), but generall quite excellent
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld -- Never cared for McKillip either...  
The Well at the World's End -- This is very Old School, in that Morris was essentially trying to bring back the Middle Ages into Victorian England.  An interesting read, but very stilted by modern standards.

As with all "Best" lists, I have my agreements and my disagreements, but overall, I'd say this is a decent overview grouping.


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## WayneLigon (Feb 2, 2004)

I had no idea this column existed, and I cannot praise it enough after reading only half the articles. It's the perfect thing to have on the site, and provides a grand introduction to the fantasy fiction that D&D is based on.

I hear more and more younger players just say 'no' when I ask 'have you ever read such-and-such?', so this kind of column I consider extremely important to thhe hobby.


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## mmadsen (Feb 4, 2004)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> Hey, thanks for starting this thread, *mmadsen*.



You're very welcome, Joshua!


			
				Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> I wasn't aware that Rateliff had reviewed so many fantasy classics. I find his reviewing style a bit convoluted, but he gets the point across: these are great books, worth reading.



I find it astonishing that an EN World regular with an interest in classic fantasy (me, but that describes all of us on this thread) would have to stumble across Rateliff's reviews.


			
				Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> Too bad _Face in the Frost_ is out of print now; I would like to re-read it.



Out of print?  You can order it from Amazon.


			
				Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> Rateliff mentions, in his review of _Face in the Frost_, the list of recommended reading at the back of the first edition _Dungeon Master's Guide_. That list set me on the path of reading fantasy classics - although I can see from the shortness of my list above that I left much undone! I commend Gary Gygax for his good taste in including that list. Hooray for D&D.



As a kid, I never noticed that appendix.  Sigh.  I did, of course, find the sections in Deities & Demigods describing Elric, Fafhrd, etc. though.  Incidentally, that did _not_ lead me to H.P. Lovecraft; I wanted _nothing_ to do with the Cthulhu mythos.


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## mmadsen (Feb 4, 2004)

CCamfield said:
			
		

> The Hobbit - An absolute classic and wonderful book.  My dad read it to me over successive nights as a bedtime story.



I get the feeling that _every_ EN Worlder is going to do that.  (Well, all the ones who successfully breed...  )


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## mmadsen (Feb 4, 2004)

CCamfield said:
			
		

> Silverlock - I have read this.  This past year.  I thought it was *complete and utter dreck*.  Seriously.  The main character remains an absolute twit even after he's repeatedly been shown when he's been wrong.



But did you like it, CCamfield?


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 5, 2004)

I was fascinated by Rateliff's description of a classic of fantasy of which I had never heard: William Hope Hodgson's _The Night Land_.



> Imagine that you were lucky enough to find true love, your destined soulmate who completed you. That you and your love were happy together as man and wife. That you lost your beloved to untimely death. Imagine that you had a vision of a future life, a reincarnation millions of year in the future, in a time when the sun had died and humankind was almost extinct. Imagine you lived on one of two great fortresses, besieged by the monsters that stalked the darkened Earth outside.
> 
> 
> Then imagine that you discover that your beloved has been reborn into the other fortress, separated from your own by vast distances across a nightmare landscape haunted by evils that can devour the soul as well as the body. That the other fortress was being overrun and its people slaughtered, and your beloved in dire peril of not just death but annihilation, from which there would be no rebirth. Imagine that you ventured forth alone into the Night Land in an attempt to save her . . .



That description made me want to rush out and read this book. I was then saddened to learn that many editions of _The Night Land_ are censored or abridged. I demand authenticity! Fortunately, the wonders of the World Wide Web are here to help me.

I found _The Night Land_ available at this link and started reading it yesterday. The language is artificially archaic, but it's not much more difficult to attune to than Shakespeare, and considerably easier than Chaucer.

Hodgson could also turn a phrase - here are a couple of my favorites from the first two chapters.



> (As the narrator's beloved wife lays dying)
> And so we twain were together; and Love seemed that it had made a truce with Death in the air about us, that we be undisturbed; for there came a drowse of rest even upon my tense heart, that had known nothing but a dreadful pain through the weary hours.
> 
> And I whispered my love silently to My Beautiful One, and her eyes answered; and the strangely beautiful and terrible moments passed by into the hush of eternity.



That, to me, is quite moving.



> (The narrator describes one part of the Night Land.)
> 
> To the East, as I stood there in the quietness of the Sleeping-Time on the One Thousandth Plateau, I heard a far, dreadful sound, down in the lightless East; and, presently, again--a strange, dreadful laughter, deep as a low thunder among the mountains. And because this sound came odd whiles from the Unknown Lands beyond the Valley of The Hounds, we had named that far and never-seen Place "The Country Whence Comes The Great Laughter." And though I had heard the sound, many and oft a time, yet did I never hear it without a most strange thrilling of my heart, and a sense of my littleness, and of the utter terror which had beset the last millions of the world.



Good stuff!

There's quite a bit about Hodgson himself on the web; one good site I found here.



As for Bellairs' _Face in the Frost_ - I'm not sure why I thought it was out of print. Duh.


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## mmadsen (Feb 5, 2004)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I had no idea this column existed, and I cannot praise it enough after reading only half the articles. It's the perfect thing to have on the site, and provides a grand introduction to the fantasy fiction that D&D is based on.



I agree 100 percent.


			
				WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I hear more and more younger players just say 'no' when I ask 'have you ever read such-and-such?', so this kind of column I consider extremely important to the hobby.



I'm honestly shocked by the number of D&D players who've never read Tolkien.  I can imagine finding the hobby before finding Tolkien, but I can't imagine _not_ seeking out such an obvious inspiration.  I also can't imagine not reading King Arthur, Robin Hood, Greek and Norse mythology, etc.


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## CCamfield (Feb 5, 2004)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> I get the feeling that _every_ EN Worlder is going to do that.  (Well, all the ones who successfully breed...  )




I wouldn't be at all surprised. 

My dad didn't read The Lord of the Rings to me but he did read it to my brother (it must have worn him out; like Joshua's dad, it took him a year or more).

As for those of us who didn't know about the reviews - well, I for one don't visit the WotC often _at all_.  I get my fantasy review/discussion fix mainly by reading the Usenet newsgroup rec.arts.sf.written which is a great community even if they often go off on tangents.

Oh, and as to Silverlock, I can understand why some people like it.  You can play "spot the reference" as tons of characters from other books and traditions show up.  But the main character just drove me up the wall.


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## mmadsen (Feb 5, 2004)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> I found _The Night Land_ available at this link and started reading it yesterday. The language is artificially archaic, but it's not much more difficult to attune to than Shakespeare, and considerably easier than Chaucer.



Indeed, from the excerpts you cited, it hardly seems archaic at all -- more Byronic than Shakespearean.  (Not that my friends and colleagues speak like Byron...)


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## Tars Tarkus (Feb 5, 2004)

*Bridge of Birds*
 Great, great book, a joy to read!! I loved the interplay between Master Li and Number Ten Ox immensely. I will have to hunt down the books and reread them again.


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## Templetroll (Feb 6, 2004)

The Hobbit    I read this to my daughter also; she loved it and it added to her enjoyment of the trilogy movies, especially things like the trolls that were turned to stone shown in Fellowship.

Watership Down           Very cool story.  Has anyone updated Bunnies and Burrows yet?

A Wizard of Earthsea      This is great and is supposed to be a TV miniseries soon, from what I've read.

The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath  It was cool, but I love the Mythos best.

The Worm Ouroboros           An excellent read!

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser   So much fun, High Fantasy is great but there is something to be said for the down and dirty.

The Forgotten Beasts of Eld  Yup, a good one.


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## mmadsen (Feb 6, 2004)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> There's quite a bit about Hodgson himself on the web; one good site I found here.



From that site:


> *William Hope Hodgson
> (1877-1918)*​
> English author, photographer, sailor, and body-builder, Hodgson produced all of his writing in the space of eleven years before he was killed in World War I.



Hodgson sounds like a very interesting guy.


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## nikolai (Feb 6, 2004)

Templetroll said:
			
		

> *Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser*: So much fun, High Fantasy is great but there is something to be said for the down and dirty.




I can't tell you how much I'm enjoying reading these. There's some bad stuff. But the good stuff is just about as good as it gets.


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## mmadsen (Feb 8, 2004)

I've cited this in other threads, but the Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser article starts with a history of swords & sorcery literature:

Sword and sorcery may not be the most critically acclaimed mode within the fantasy genre, but it's one of the most enduring and has proven perennially popular. The first sword and sorcery story was probably Dunsany's novella "The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth" (1907), which brought together all the basic elements: an evil wizard, a brave young hero, a magic sword, and a host of obstacles preventing the hero from getting at the wizard with the sword. Sword and sorcery was a mainstay of the fantasy pulp magazines, best exemplified in the work of Robert E. Howard, whose Conan series (1932-36) pretty much set the standard for decades to follow. Howard may have been a hack, but he was an honest hack, able to vividly convey his own wild-eyed enthusiasm for violence as a solution to virtually any problem. Conan himself is a paean to the virtues of the Noble Savage who grows in character throughout the series, culminating in the novel Hour of the Dragon (also known as Conan the Conqueror) where a middle-aged Conan has acquired a sense of responsibility and fights to defend the subjects of his usurped kingdom.

Howard had many imitators, most of whom aped his style and lacked both his imagination and his sincerity, like modern-day musicians engineering pops and crackles into their songs to make them sound more like bygone artists they admire. One follower who avoided this trap was Michael Moorcock, who in the early 1960s attempted to re-invent the genre by inverting its conventions with Stormbringer (1963), the first (and best) of the Elric of Melniboné series. Instead of an uncivilized barbarian, Moorcock gives us an overcivilized decadent; instead of rising from adventurer to king, Elric declines from emperor to peopleless wanderer; instead of the straightforward Conan's loyalty and occasional gallantry, the subtle Elric betrays and brings about the death of every friend, subject, relative, or subordinate who puts their trust in him. In fact, Elric is just the sort of treacherous wizard whom Conan specializes in lopping the heads off of. Unfortunately, instead of stopping after the impressive feat of writing the epic tale of Elric's death, Moorcock proceeded to churn out a flood of prequels, all essentially retellings of the same story, diluting the impact of the original with every regurgitation.


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## mmadsen (Feb 11, 2004)

I enjoyed this quote from the intro to Rateliff's Silverlock article:

"When a man reads my books I do not take it that he is hiding out from anything 
but that he is simply doing something he considers worthwhile." 

-- John Myers Myers, "Escapism and the Puritans" (1947)​


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## Desdichado (Feb 11, 2004)

Here's my experiences with those books.  I've also read all the articles, a few weeks ago, as a matter of fact:

*Hobberdy Dick:*  Nope, and it doesn't sound like my style.
*The Hobbit:*  Absolutely.  Love it.
*The Books of Wonder:*  No, I haven't, although I have read some of Dunsany's stuff.  I particularly liked _The Queen of Elf-land's Daughter_.  I'm actually anxious to give this one a try.
*Tales of Averoigne:*  Once, long ago.  I've been on the lookout for some CAS for some time; he's a darn good writer.
*The Book of Three Dragons:*  I'm not likely to read this one base on the description.
*Watership Down:*  Yes, although again, not for many years.  It really is good.
*The Night Land:*  No, and the descriptions sound tedious.  Probably a good story buried under difficult language.
*The Face in the Frost:*  That one was new to me.  It sounds very intriguing.
*A Wizard of Earthsea:*  I tried to read this once in junior high and for some reason didn't get into it.  That's unusual, because back then, I'd read almost anything in front of me.  I've been curious to try this one again, actually.
*The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath:*  This was the first Lovecraft story I heard of, the first one I read, and still my favorite by a long-shot today.  Like Rateliff, I find it odd that this is one of his more overlooked stories; I think it'd phenomenal.
*The Worm Ouroboros:*  Yes, once long ago.  I'd probably struggle to get through it again; the writing is very tedious and I'm not sure the payoff is there a second time around.
*Bridge of Birds:*  I hadn't heard of this one before.
*A Voyage to Arcturus:*  This one neither.
*Silverlock:*  Nor this one.
*Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser:*  Absolutely; I'm about to order these again because it's been too long since I've read some of these classics.  I'm not sure I agree with him that these are qualitatively better than the original Conan stories, though.  I think Robert E. Howard is an immensely talented writer who wrote with a real primal feel that Leiber simply doesn't have.
*Collected Ghost Stories:*  Never heard of these, but they sound really interesting.
*The Forgotten Beasts of Eld:*  I actually have read this one years ago, but I don't remember much about it.  As he described it, though, some of it came back to me.  I didn't find it particularly memorable.
*The Well at the World's End:*  Also read this one long, long ago.  I oughtta see if I still have my old paperback copy of this sitting around somewhere...


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## nikolai (Feb 12, 2004)

Wow. You're really well read!



			
				Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> *Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser:*  Absolutely; I'm about to order these again because it's been too long since I've read some of these classics.  I'm not sure I agree with him that these are qualitatively better than the original Conan stories, though.  I think Robert E. Howard is an immensely talented writer who wrote with a real primal feel that Leiber simply doesn't have.




I read all the REH Conan stories a while back, and I'm working my way through Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser now. The Leiber stories are very, very, variable. The bad ones are very bad. The quality of Howard's stuff is very consistent, if you pick up a random Conan story you know what you are going to get.

Here's where I try to pick a fight! I agree with Rateliff that the Leiber stuff is better. Here's why:


 I think the best of Leiber's stories have a real completeness to them and are beautfully constructed. _The Bleak Shore_, _The Sunken Land_, and _The Howling Tower_ all have a elegance to how the story works out. Howard approaches this in some stories, such as the _The Tower of the Elephant_, but doesn't equal Leiber. 
 The quality of Leiber's prose is fantastic. The rhythm of his writing and the quality of his description are amazing.
 There's a great variety in the Lankhmar stories you don't get with Conan. A lot of the same themes crop up in Howard again and again, he sadly never wrote enough for this to get tiring, but watching Conan steal the umpteenth gem, or blunder across the umpteenth monster or slay the umpteenth wizard can feel a little repetative.
 Leiber's stuff is just very, very witty. Leiber doesn't have the primal feel, but Howard doesn't have the humour.


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## Desdichado (Feb 12, 2004)

I can't really argue with that; although I haven't read either in many years, I suspect that if I read them again today I'd think the same thing.  I'm not necessarily trying to say that Howard is a better author than Leiber, just that Rateliff's "dissin'" of Howard isn't warranted.


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## mmadsen (Feb 14, 2004)

nikolai said:
			
		

> I agree with Rateliff that the Leiber stuff is better.



What?!  Them's fightin' words, nikolai!  


			
				nikolai said:
			
		

> _The Bleak Shore_, _The Sunken Land_, and _The Howling Tower_ all have a elegance to how the story works out. Howard approaches this in some stories, such as the _The Tower of the Elephant_, but doesn't equal Leiber.



Two thoughts: (1) I _really_ need to get around to re-reading the "good" Leiber stories, and (2) _The Tower of the Elephant_ never did much for me (for an original REH Conan story).


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## d4 (Feb 15, 2004)

you know, i've read _Watership Down_ at least four or five times (it's bar none my favorite "fantasy" novel; even beating out LOTR), and i never caught the _Aeneid_ references before. now that he's spelled it out, it's quite obvious.

that's cool; i like discovering things like that.

i like _Watership Down_ because it works on so many different levels. when i first read at around age 10, it was a cool book about rabbits with lots of adventure and wonder in it. when i later reread it around age 18, i could also see it as an allegory of modern human societies. now i've got it as a retelling of a classic Roman epic as well.


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## mmadsen (Feb 16, 2004)

d4 said:
			
		

> i like _Watership Down_ because it works on so many different levels. when i first read at around age 10, it was a cool book about rabbits with lots of adventure and wonder in it. when i later reread it around age 18, i could also see it as an allegory of modern human societies. now i've got it as a retelling of a classic Roman epic as well.



It sounds like it's time for a re-reading of _Watership Down_ too.  I read it around age 11, and I haven't read it since.  I enjoyed it on a cool-rabbit-adventure level then, but I was only vaguely aware of the parallels to human societies; I could tell there were supposed to be parallels there, but I couldn't tell exactly what the parallels were (or what they meant).  

I certainly didn't see the _Aeneid_ parallels.  Of course, I still haven't read the _Aeneid_ even now, I'm ashamed to say.


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## Desdichado (Feb 16, 2004)

Ah, well.  Neither have I.


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## d4 (Feb 17, 2004)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> I certainly didn't see the _Aeneid_ parallels.  Of course, I still haven't read the _Aeneid_ even now, I'm ashamed to say.



heh, well technically neither have i. 

i was _supposed_ to read it for a World Literature class last year, but i just skimmed through bits and pieces of it. i do have a pretty good grasp of the plot line from the professor's lectures, though. 

but to continue on _Watership Down_, this is the basics of what i saw:

their first home (Sandleford Warren?) had an aristocratic / feudal sort of structure with a ruling class (the Owsla) who were seen as superior to the masses.

at Watership Down, Hazel was trying to implement a more egalitarian and democratic society, although most of the other rabbits wanted to treat him like nobility (as they had been used to back home).

Efrafa was obviously a fascist state, with a powerful military/police force (the Owslafa) and a charsimatic dictator (Woundwort). the society was stratified into regimented groups that were strictly controlled and any infractions were dealt with harshly.

Cowslip's warren i'm not so sure about. it had a certain Orwellian 1984ish vibe to it -- with a powerful unseen "Big Brother" figure who simultaneously provided for all the warren's needs but could also destroy anyone at any time without notice. the paranoia and decadence of the warren were noted by Hazel and the others while they were there.


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## Joshua Randall (Feb 23, 2004)

*bump*, now that the boards are back.

Also - which one of you guys is a fellow Cleveland-dweller? I've requested many of the books discussed here, but *every single one* is already checked out of the county library system. I started to wonder what was up when the seventh book I requested was not available.


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## mmadsen (Mar 2, 2004)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> Also - which one of you guys is a fellow Cleveland-dweller? I've requested many of the books discussed here, but *every single one* is already checked out of the county library system. I started to wonder what was up when the seventh book I requested was not available.



It's not me.  Besides, I feel compelled to _buy_ books.

So, has anyone been reading these classics?  I've had so much other reading to get through; I haven't made time for a few Leiber stories.


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## Joshua Randall (Mar 3, 2004)

I have started reading _Forgotten Beasts of Eld_. It's a quick read, so I'm forcing myself to hold off and savor it. There is some nice language, and the overall feel is quite old-fashioned, in a good way.

I also have just received one of Dunsany's books. Whomever was hoarding the Cleveland books has relented.


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## Henry (Mar 3, 2004)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Ironically, Morris did not intend to help create a new genre but was seeking to revive a very old one: He was attempting to recreate the medieval romance... [King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table] were merely the most well-known among a vast multitude of now-forgotten tales... Morris's new medieval tales belong to a new genre: the fantasy novel.




The side question came up in a recent thread, "what's so medieval about D&D?" referring to the costuming, et. al. being more renaissance than medieval. It seems that, according to this piece, the most medieval thing about D&D and the fantasy genre  - is the story style!


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## mmadsen (Mar 3, 2004)

Henry said:
			
		

> It seems that, according to this piece, the most medieval thing about D&D and the fantasy genre  - is the story style!



Interesting point.  A medieval romance typically involves a quest, with magical obstacles, for treasure and/or prisoners locked away in a castle/tower, etc.  In that sense, D&D _is_ fairly medieval.


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## Joshua Randall (Apr 2, 2004)

Dragging this thread back to the surface. Here's my update:

* Finished reading _Forgotten Beats of Eld_. Like many books that are supposedly appropriate for teens, this one involves some decidedly mature themes. Spoilers! 



Spoiler



Sybel is almost raped, and uses lethal force to save herself. She also has to learn the meaning of love -- although it's debatable that she really learns that lesson correctly.


 I was disappointed with the end of the book, because it felt abrurpt. There was no pay-off for all the build-up. 



Spoiler



Also, a minor point, but is it a coincidence that the villain is named Mithran, which is very similar to one of Gandalf's names (Mithrandir)?


 
* I have read a selection of Dunsany short stories. I'm rather disappointed in them, really. For example: _The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth_ completely lacks any narrative tension. The hero acquires the sword Sacnoth by exactly following the instructions for how to do so, and then just wades through the fortress showing off his mighty blade (er... that sounds raunchier, by far, than it really is). There's never a sense of danger or excitement. Can anyone recommend some of the better Dunsany short stories?

* I still have several books on order from the library, but unknown conspirators are preventing me from getting them. Damn you!  *shakes fist impotently*


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## Desdichado (Apr 2, 2004)

I'd still recommend _The King of Elfland's Daughter_ as the best Dunsany.  It's novella rather than short story, but still only 100-150 pages long, IIRC.  Not a bad read at all.


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## milotha (Apr 10, 2004)

I've only read

The Hobbit: I loved it! Enough said.

Watership Down: I actually didn't care for this one... Don't know why.

The Dream Quest of Unknown Kadath:  Well, this happens to be one of my favorite books of all time.  I loved Lovecraft's works.  This book was so absolutely similar to a dream in terms of its logic and fantastical nature.  Plus, any of his works are a great vocabulary expander when you're 14 or so.

I'm surprised at some of the works that aren't on this list.  Anything by Poe, some of the Conan stuff, Beowulf, Authurian legend stuff, and numerous other older works.


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## mmadsen (Apr 10, 2004)

milotha said:
			
		

> I'm surprised at some of the works that aren't on this list. Anything by Poe, some of the Conan stuff, Beowulf, Authurian legend stuff, and numerous other older works.



The list isn't done, and, from what I can tell, he's trying to emphasize lesser-known but highly influencial works.  Also, by "fantasy" I believe he means quasi-medieval fantasy -- stories that _hark back_ to medieval romance (in the style of Tolkien), not the original legends, and not "weird tales" in a modern (or nonsense) setting.

If I may repeat some excerpts from the essay on The Well at the World's End, by William Morris (1896): Morris not only served as Tolkien's personal role-model as a writer but is also responsible for fantasy's characteristic medievalism and the emphasis on what Tolkien called the subcreated world: a self-consistent fantasy setting resembling our own world but distinct from it. Before Morris, fantasy settings generally resembled the arbitrary dreamscapes of Carroll's Wonderland and MacDonald's fairy tales; Morris shifted the balance to a pseudo-medieval world that was realistic in the main but independent of real-world history and included fantastic elements such as the elusive presence of magical creatures.

Ironically, Morris did not intend to help create a new genre but was seeking to revive a very old one: He was attempting to recreate the medieval romance -- those sprawling quest-stories of knights and ladies, heroes and dastards, friends, enemies, and lovers, marvels and simple pleasures and above all adventures. The most familiar examples of such tales to modern readers are the many stories of King Arthur and the Knights of the Round Table, but these were merely the most well-known among a vast multitude of now-forgotten tales. Morris deliberately sat down to write new stories in the same vein and even something of the same style, right down to deliberately archaic word choice. But just as the creators of opera thought they were recreating classical Greek drama a la Aeschylus and wound up giving birth to a new art form instead, so too did Morris's new medieval tales belong to a new genre: the fantasy novel.​


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## mmadsen (Feb 6, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> The list isn't done, and, from what I can tell...



Sadly, it looks like the list is as done as it's ever going to be.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Feb 6, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> The Well at the World's End




This does not take me to the review of _Well_, but to the general Wizard's novel page.


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## mmadsen (Feb 8, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> This does not take me to the review of _Well_, but to the general Wizard's novel page.



Odd.  Try this link: http://ww2.wizards.com/Books/Wizards/?doc=dnd_classics​


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## The Grumpy Celt (Feb 9, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> Odd.




I since found it by going through the archives, but thank you. The column was nice. Pity it ended. I wonder why it ended.


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## mmadsen (Feb 9, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I wonder why it ended.



I suspect that it made WotC no money.  If anything, it educated WotC's book audience to seek out the classics of the genre and not the latest D&D novel.

But I think we can agree that it was an excellent series of essays while it lasted.  And I wasn't going to buy the latest Forgotten Realms novel anyway.


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## mmadsen (Feb 9, 2007)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> I have read a selection of Dunsany short stories. I'm rather disappointed in them, really. For example: _The Fortress Unvanquishable, Save for Sacnoth_ completely lacks any narrative tension. The hero acquires the sword Sacnoth by exactly following the instructions for how to do so, and then just wades through the fortress showing off his mighty blade (er... that sounds raunchier, by far, than it really is). There's never a sense of danger or excitement. Can anyone recommend some of the better Dunsany short stories?



I've found that a lot of old fantasy reads that way; many of Clark Ashton Smith's works, for instance, lack narrative tension.  I suppose we're expected to be "wowed" by the imagery and poetic language, because we haven't encountered anything like it before -- only we're 21st-century readers who have encountered plenty of fantasy fiction.  We already know that the unstoppable beast can be stopped with the magic sword, that the pale owner of the castle is obviously a vampire, etc.


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## Mark CMG (Feb 9, 2007)

For those who'd like a free PDF copy of The Book of Wonder by Lord Dunsany.


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## mmadsen (Feb 10, 2007)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> I have not yet read:
> 
> Hobberdy Dick
> The Books of Wonder
> ...



I just realized that I have only read one more book on the list since posting this, a collection of Clark Ashton Smith's stories (roughly comparable, I'm assuming, to Tales of Averoigne). Smith's works had a clear influence on D&D: A writer like Smith, who could throw off ideas like a flaming pinwheel, has proved a godsend to DMs and RPG designers over the years: his works were full of monsters, characters, ideas, and motifs that could be sprung on unsuspecting players who had never read the original tales, as relatively few have. The first RPG product based on his work, Tom Moldvay's excellent Chateau d'Ambreville (a.k.a. X2. Castle Amber, 1981) was not only an exceptional D&D adventure in itself that enabled PCs to play through the four major Averoigne stories ("The Colossus of Ylourgne", "The Enchantress of Sylaire", "The Beast of Averoigne", "The Holiness of Azedarac"), it also provided the template for one of the most famous of all AD&D modules, I6. Ravenloft, and the Ravenloft campaign setting that followed. The original stand-alone module was further developed by products like Gaz 3. The Principalities of Glantri (1987), eventually becoming a major part of the D&D "Known World"/ AD&D Mystara setting -- cf. the Glantri boxed set by Monte Cook and the audio-CD adventure Mark of Amber (both 1995).

In addition, Smith's work has not only inspired a number of D&D monsters but also has set the tone and thus had a major impact on the treatment of necromancy as it has appeared in roleplaying games, in such products as The Complete Book of Necromancers (1995), the Al-Qadim setting's Cities of Bone (1994), Return to the Tomb of Horrors (1998), and Secret College of Necromancers (2002). Surprisingly enough, his stories have had little impact on the Lovecraftian Call of Cthulhu game, being represented only by a very few scenarios -- e.g., a single encounter in Trail of Tsathoggua (Chaosium, 1984), a markedly un-Smithian use of the sorcerer Eibon in Spawn of Azathoth (Chaosium, 1986), the Great Old One Mordiggian hovering ineffectually in the background of The Realm of Shadows (1997, probably Pagan Publishing's weakest CoC release), and the like. Gamers who are admirers of Smith's work are better off creating their own scenarios around his ideas. Zothique, his end-of-time setting for some of his best stories, is probably too bleak for an ongoing campaign, though very effective for self-contained scenarios inserted into a pre-existing game (e.g., in Pelgrane Press's The Dying Earth RPG). But Averoigne is perfect for fans of both D&D and Call of Cthulhu: It combines the medieval sensibilities and possibilities for heroic adventures of the one with the eerie horror, lurking menace, and overwhelming terror of the other. (I am myself currently running a d20 Call of Cthulhu campaign set in Smith's Averoigne and can testify to its effectiveness as a setting.) Considering its historical links with the development of the whole "Land of Mist" concept underlying Ravenloft, the domain of Averoigne can easily be into a Ravenloft campaign; Averoigne is also an apt setting for a Vampire: the Dark Ages scenario (it even already has its resident vampires, "A Rendezvous in Averoigne"'s Sieur Huge du Malinbois and his wife Agathe).​


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## Krypter (Jan 5, 2009)

Since my original reply was eaten long ago by the great Database Crash Dragon, I'd like to once again bump this thread and thank mmadsen (and Mr. Ratecliffe, of course) for bringing these books to our attention. This list rekindled my love of fantasy at a time when I had grown bored of it, and inspired me to read a lot of other great literature as well. 

That said, here's my quick 1-second review of them:

Hobberdy Dick: 5/5, warm, wonderful and filled with fairy glamour and good English values.
The Hobbit: 5/5, exciting, thoughtful and quintessentially adventurous.
The Books of Wonder: 3/5, kind of hit-or-miss, with some Dunsany greats along with a few tepid stories
Tales of Averoigne: 4/5, I think the words "purple prose" where invented for CAS, but his worlds do stand out and his sentences are adventures in themselves. 
The Book of Three Dragons: 5/5, glorious and epic, full of celtic wit and the best use of a bard as a hero that I've ever read. 
Watership Down: 2/5, quite disappointing. I never empathized with the characters and the plot was downright banal. A long read for not much reward. 
The Night Land: 4/5, brilliant imagery but marred by the saccharine love-words of a teenage poet. Recommended with reservations.  
The Face in the Frost: 2/5, completely went over head, I think, because I just didn't get into Sir Bacon running around after an amorphous threat and cowering at every knock on the door. 
A Wizard of Earthsea: 5/5, an fantastic, organic world with a magic system that puts most others to shame, though the "deep plot" isn't as deep as it seemed when I first read it as a teenager. 
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath: 5/5, long, but worth the extended opium hallucinations and Lovecraft's trademark florid prose. 
The Worm Ouroboros: 5/5, brilliantly written in an affected style, but the unsympathetic characters almost drove me mad. Yes, I was rooting for the villains most of the time. Also, bring an unabridged OED along, you'll need it. 
Bridge of Birds: 5/5, wonderful, uplifting, funny as hell and amazingly fun adventure in a China that never was. Recommended. 
A Voyage to Arcturus: 4/5, trippy: oh yeah. Surreal, experimental and very thoughtful, it yanked fantasy into places later explored by Burroughs and Herbert. 
Silverlock: 5/5, a truly inspiring read, though the adventurer himself is not exactly a hero. Maybe this should be first on the list, to bring people into the Commonwealth of Letters? 
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser: 5/5, the best of primeval sword-and-sorcery combined with a wit and flair that hasn't been matched since. Later books get a little less interesting, but the first 4 are gold. 
Collected Ghost Stories: 3/5, meh, well written but not my style and will generally not have the expected effect on modern readers as it would have had on the delicate sensibilities of Victorian ladies. 
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld: 5/5, beautiful, poetic and heart-wrenching, the best example of a fantasy story that reveals the hundred-fold emotions of its protagonists. Definitely recommended. 
The Well at the World's End: 4/5, good medieval romance but a little long-winded. Tragedy, stout hearts, betrayals and many turns of the road make this a fantasy that's quite unpredictable. 

I've now got my own list of fantasy favorites, starting with Grendel, and I hope Mr. Ratecliffe will one day continue his series of articles. 

So what are you waiting for? Get reading!


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## Jasperak (Jan 6, 2009)

Thank you Krypter for the necro. I was never aware that Wizards had something like this on their site. Time for me to go read.


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## Rl'Halsinor (Jan 6, 2009)

I've read the following:

The Hobbit - The first time while in college.  A fun read.

The Face in the Frost - I picked this up in a Drug Store book rack.  Little did I know how excellent it was going to be.  John Bellairs says more in a few pages than some writers do in an entire book.

A Wizard of Earthsea - Absolutely excellent trilogy.  Everything following needs to be avoided like the plague.

The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath - One of my absolute favorite H.P. Lovecraft stories.

A Voyage to Arcturus - It really, really helps to have a background in philosophy and religion to understand fully what the author is saying, but it still can be read as is.

Silverlock - Tried it, finished, but didn't care for it.

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser - Read every story.

The Forgotten Beasts of Eld - Diffrent, enjoyable and the main character is in many aspects an anti-heroine.


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## Plane Sailing (Jan 9, 2009)

I didn't realise at first that this was thread-necromancy, and I didn't see it at all the first time round (nearly 5 years ago!)

All I can say is what a brilliantly perceptive and clear writer John D. Rateliff is.

And big thanks to mmadsen for providing the links here in the first place 

Cheers


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## mmadsen (Jul 20, 2009)

Krypter said:


> I'd like to once again bump this thread and thank mmadsen (and Mr. Ratecliffe, of course) for bringing these books to our attention.





Plane Sailing said:


> And big thanks to mmadsen for providing the links here in the first place



Thanks, guys.  I guess I wasn't visiting the boards much in January, so I didn't get to witness the resurrection of one of my favorite threads.  Sadly, I still haven't made much progress on reading these classics.  (I've been reading too much non-fiction, I suppose.  And some SF classics.)


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## jeffh (Aug 1, 2010)

I'm necroing this thread again to ask if anyone has current, working links to these columns. All the ones above just take me to the general novels page, which makes no mention of this column ever having existed, and an admittedly quick look through the (_*unforgivably,*_ non-searchable) archives didn't turn them up either.


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## Mark CMG (Aug 1, 2010)

```
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicshobberdy  - - - > Hobberdy Dick

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicshobbit  - - - > The Hobbit

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsdunsany  - - - > The Books of Wonder

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsaveroigne  - - - > Tales of Averoigne

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsbook3dragons  - - - > The Book of Three Dragons

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicswatership  - - - > Watership Down

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsnightland  - - - > The Night Land

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsfacefrost  - - - > The Face in the Frost

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicswizardearthsea  - - - > A Wizard of Earthsea

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsdreamquest  - - - > The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicworm  - - - > The Worm Ouroboros

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classics8  - - - > Bridge of Birds

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classics3  - - - > A Voyage to Arcturus

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/silverlock  - - - > Silverlock

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classicsoffantasy  - - - > Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/ghoststories  - - - > Collected Ghost Stories

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/main/classics2  - - - > The Forgotten Beasts of Eld

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=books/dnd/classics  - - - > The Well at the World's End
```


You might have some luck using *The Wayback Machine** -

Internet Archive: Wayback Machine



*Time and patience sold separately.


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## Joshua Randall (Aug 6, 2010)

If you strike out with the Wayback Machine, PM or e-mail me and I may be able to help you out.


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## Morkul (Aug 27, 2010)

i didnt dig the William Morris stuff at all.  my pantheon goes more like this:

Titus Groan, Gormenghast- Mervyn Peake
A Voyage to Arcturus- David Lindsay
The Worm Ouroboros- E. R. Eddison
Gather, Darkness!- Fritz Leiber
A Canticle For Leibowitz- Walter M. Miller Jr.
Goblin Market- Christina Rossetti
The Charwoman's Shadow, the King of Elfland's Daughter- Lord Dunsany
The Last Unicorn- Peter S. Beagle
Dwellers in the Mirage- A. Merritt
The Mabinogion
Njal's Saga
Frankenstein- Mary Shelley
A Boy and His Dog- Harlan Ellison
Lord of Light- Roger Zelazny
Dune, Dune Messiah- Frank Herbert
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath- H. P. Lovecraft

i rate Tolkein, William Morris, Clark Ashton Smith and George MacDonald below these...


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## Plane Sailing (Aug 27, 2010)

jeffh said:


> I'm necroing this thread again to ask if anyone has current, working links to these columns. All the ones above just take me to the general novels page, which makes no mention of this column ever having existed, and an admittedly quick look through the (_*unforgivably,*_ non-searchable) archives didn't turn them up either.





Nooooooo!


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## Plane Sailing (Aug 27, 2010)

Hobbit review here Wizards Books


Tales of Averoigne Classics of Fantasy


Wizard of Earthsea Classics of Fantasy


Fafrhd and the Gray Mouser Classics of Fantasy: Fritz Leiber's Fafhrd & the Gray Mouser Series


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## Morkul (Aug 31, 2010)

Hobberdy Dick
The Hobbit
The Books of Wonder
Tales of Averoigne
The Book of Three Dragons
Watership Down
The Night Land
The Face in the Frost
A Wizard of Earthsea
The Dream-Quest of Unknown Kadath
The Worm Ouroboros
Bridge of Birds
A Voyage to Arcturus
Silverlock
Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
Collected Ghost Stories
The Forgotten Beasts of Eld
The Well at the World's End<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

never heard of some of these.  Bridge of Birds has no business being on this list.  it was good, but not great.  there was a book from around that time called _Little, Big_ by John Crowley that was much better...

for those interested in classic fantasy, there was a series put our by Ballantine (1969-1972 or so) called the Ballantine Adult Fantasy series, all paperbacks with amazing glossy wraparound covers...

i have been going thru the sci-fi/fantasy sections of local used book stores for many years, picking out the oldest books they have.  not only are they cheaper, but the overall design of older books is much more appealing to me.  about seven or eight years ago, i came across the Ballantine Adult Fantasy paperbacks _The Blue Star_ by Fletcher Pratt and _A Voyage to Arcturus_ by David Lindsay.  needless to say, i have been collecting that series ever since.  i have 30 or so of them at this time, including some of the books on this list...


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## Remus Lupin (Sep 1, 2010)

You know, one of my favorite things about those Fafhrd and Mouser collections were the Mike Mignola covers. I'm going to have to go dig those up again!


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