# Best multiclass for a rogue?



## -Ekimus-

im pretty bored with going mainstream with just a single class, so i wanna make my new rogue (lvl3) something different and interesting. what are some ideas for classes and combos with them? PS: dm has banned Sorcerer class for some strange reason


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## hong

-Ekimus- said:
			
		

> *im pretty bored with going mainstream with just a single class, so i wanna make my new rogue (lvl3) something different and interesting. what are some ideas for classes and combos with them? PS: dm has banned Sorcerer class for some strange reason *




Sorc -- oh. Whoops, never mind, then.

What sort of character concept do you have in mind? Many of the combos can be pretty good at doing certain things. You just have to be sure that these things are what you want to do.

Fighter/rogue -- swashbuckler/light fighter type. Good in combat, and has a ton of diplomacy skills when you're not fighting.

Ranger/rogue -- TWF all the way. Extra sneak attack goodness. Be different and take more than 1 level of ranger, please.

Wizard/rogue -- who needs to hide when you've got invisibility spells? Combine with knock, spider climb, expeditious retreat and fly to make a superlative cat burglar. Not quite as good as a sorc/rogue, but good enough.

Monk/rogue -- if you can't sneak attack them to death, run away at high speed. Your sword or bow will probably be more useful than your fists, though.

Paladin/rogue -- not so strange; just think of Frodo. You're a scout, not a thief, and you go on quests like any other paladin. Your quests just happen to require stealth rather than a big sword.


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## Breakstone

Here are some ideas:

Rogue/Fighter- A duelist-type. Wear light armor, but be able to fight as well as the tank and yet leap, tumble, and use magic items.

Rogue/Wizard- Hey, some of these spells are usefull... If your rogue already has a good intelligence, you can use a bunch of simple spells like Mage Hand and Arcane Mark in creative, rogue-like ways.

Rogue/Monk- No armor, no problem- You'll just flip through the air, catch the orc by surprise, and plant a side kick through his throat.

Rogue/Cleric- Is the needle trap poisoned? Pray to your god to tell! And if you fail to disarm, just heal yourself back up!

Rogue/Paladin- You're an enforcer of the law with a vile history. You know the best way to kill a man- now you've just got to do it with honor.

Anyway, I hope those give you some ideas!


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## bret

Not mentioned yet: Barbarian/Rogue.

There is a fair amount of synergy between the skill lists, both get good skill points, and the Uncanny Dodge stacks. The thing that most differentiates it from Rogue/Ranger is the Uncanny Dodge vs. an even better skill matchup.

You don't loose much off the rogue and gain quite a bit from the Barbarian levels.

Biggest benefits of the barbarian are the increased movement rate and great hit dice. The boost to BAB is good too.


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## Elder-Basilisk

Also worth considering:

Ranger/Rogue (or fighter/rogue): Bounty hunter and scout. You track down the enemies of your king and bring them to justice. (Dual wield saps for massive sneak attack subdual damage if the king wants them alive). If you want to be a church bounty hunter (or inquisitor) with Holy powers, toss in cleric and/or paladin levels for added fun. (This is also a great way to qualify for the Consecrated Harrier prestige class in DotF).

Rogue/Wizard: This is actually a superlative combination--particularly if you know what you're getting into. IMHO, wizard actually multiclasses better than sorceror. Play a specialist and you'll have almost as many spells per day as a sorceror but much more flexibility in which ones you cast. (Consider a level 2/3 rogue/illusionist with Mage Armor, Expeditious Retreat, Feather Fall, Spider Climb, Cat's Grace, Invisibility, and change self (for impersonating a guard on the way out) prepared. As a rogue/sorceror, he'd be limited to three first level spells and no second levels. Message is also worth considering as a spell since it will allow you to communicate your findings to your party if scouting ahead in a dungeon or coordinate with a lookout if breaking into a building.

Barbarian/Roge: This tribesman from the far North doesn't lose his wits when he loses his temper. He's always got a dirty trick up his sleeve. If need be, he can talk his way out of trouble too. (Plus, he can run away quickly if both fighting and talking fail).

Rogue/Bard: A charismatic performer and con-man who doesn't use much magic but can handle himself in a fight. His razor sharp wit encourages his companions in a fight (if your DM allows peform (witty reparte) and you've got the savior faire to manage it).


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## fba827

The ideas already stated are good ones - I am just adding to them.

It really does come down to the type of character you want.  But just some random ramblings  ...

Ranger/Rogue - (and, yes, please don't just take one level of the damn ranger  )  Why?
 *You maintain class-access to stealth and scouting skills
 *higher BAB & HD than straight rogue
 *Compared to straight rogue, however, you loose increased sneak attack damage and access to those skills like Use Magic Device
 *If the group does not have a wilderness person yet (a druid or a ranger or another class but focus in those woodsy skills) your access to Wilderness Lore, Track, and such would be a great boon to your group's overland traveling

Bard / Rogue - great people skills for when you aren't sneak-attacking them   continued access to skills like Use Magic Device and ability to cast some spells (like invisibility i believe is on the bard list ? but i could be wrong about that - but other spells in general like cure light wounds could be nice  and spontaneous casting is always a boon

Fighter / Rogue - if you are a real sneak-attack kind of guy, or find yourself in the thick of battle more often than you care to admit, go this route.  Using some combat feats related to your attacks / defenses of choice could make you a formidable opponent.  In essense you would be an assasian without the assassain PrC 

Wiz (specialist) / Rogue - Instead of just thinking in terms of a wizard rogue, think of a particular specialist / rogue.  Perhaps a Diviner / Rogue - then you'd be like an archeologist or something (of course, you could retain that title with bard instead).  Illusionist / Rogue seems a little painful for your enemies but at the same time that may be too predictable.  


Other option? Stay as a rogue just don't choose such sterotypical rogue things - for instance, with your feats go in the direction of feats related to knowledge or simply taking skill focus in skills that are cross-class.  Or, maybe even using that ABUNDANCE of skill points given to rogues and spend them on skills other than the sterotypical ones (search/disable device/etc).  Some cross-class skills...
 wilderness lore would make you more proficienct in overland travel and could help if you picked up the track feat
 Profession (Sailor) - get some ranks in this and be a boater; perhaps all your adventuring is to save up money to get your own boat?   okay, a little corny and probably not a good idea if your DM doesn't generally go off in these directions... but it's an idea none the less 

must stop now as I am just rambling - lack of sleep i guess 
But the point in this is to say even if you don't actually take a different class, you can still mix things up by not taking what is stereotypcailly expected of a rogue. 


Oh, if you do multi-class, watch out for multi-class XP penalties.. you said you were 3rd so you might run into some trouble if rogue (or your other chosen class) isn't a favored class for your race.


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## Dark Psion

If you want to take more than one level as a Ranger, then use the "Urban Ranger" variant in Masters of the Wild. Check out the Defensive Options for favored foe as well, they would blend well with Uncanny Dodge and Evasion.

Also, if your DM will allow psionics, (no sorcerer, so I would assume no psionics) Psychic Warrior is good combo with a rogue. He gets the feats and the rogue gets the skills


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## reapersaurus

Paladin multiclass.   

just kidding.

I think that's a terrible idea, as discussed in the Paladin thread - the values just don't mesh that well.


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## hong

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Paladin multiclass.
> 
> just kidding.
> 
> I think that's a terrible idea, as discussed in the Paladin thread - the values just don't mesh that well. *




A class is a skillset. Being a paladin is a state of mind. There's no reason the two can't be compatible.


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## jdfrenzel

Regarding the wizard/rogue, which is a great combo, consider the Transmutation specialty, with Knock, Animate Rope, Feather Fall, Keen Edge, others. Also, most of these effect objects or yourself, so no trouble with low DCs. 

--- John


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## FireLance

Noticed nobody mentioned rogue/druid.  Why not?  You have roughly the same armour restrictions, and wild shaping into a small, innocuous form is useful for sneaking around and catching your opponents flat-footed.


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## Shin Okada

If you go for Wizard/Rogue or Sorcerer/Rogue, your familiar rocks! Familiar can use maser's skill ranks. Imagine a tiny bird with tons of stealth skills! As they are tiny creature, they get +8 bonus to Hide! That's just great. So do not go for toad.

Also, you can use some low-level touch attack spells such as Chill Touch for sneak attack.

Just an another idea. Aristocrat/Rogue can be a very interesting combo. Both for role-playing and for skill synergy.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully

If you don`t hate any of the other classes around, you can multiclass into ANY class and make a nice character.

You could - with or without multiclassing - play something like a law enforcer or a detective (a lawful good rogue) - no Pick Pocket (but Search, Disable Device and Open Lock are still "useful" and "believable"), but you might add skills like wilderness lore (cross class, or made class skills due to feats, or by multiclassing) and track. 

The options are seemingly endless... (But I doubt you find something "new" if you ask in a forum  )


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## -Ekimus-

thanks everyone for ur input. im leaning towards a barb or a bard, but im definately going to check out the Urban Ranger, and the thief is a Halfling so it will be kinda funny. feats are already ambidex and 2weap fighting so im not leaning towards a ranger much, plus they suck other than begining feats. thanks everyone


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## Sodalis

nobody mentioned this yet... what a surprise.

rogue/Assassin- sneak attack stacks, poison use, spells

or 

rogue/ninja (OA)- same basic concept


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## Vuron

Vuron suggests the as of yet unmentioned Vampire Paladin option


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## Plane Sailing

One good reason for a wizard to take at least one level of Rogue - it gives you lots of skills that you can spend your skill points on. They may be cross class, but your skill cap becomes level+3 instead of half that... A wizard has lots of INT, once you've got your concentration and spellcraft, a human rog1/wizx with an 18 INT would have 5 skill points left over - enough to keep spot and hide maxed out, for instance. Or how about spot and pickpocket, but the latter used for "sleight of hand" to get at hidden material components (could be a cool idea!)

Cheers


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## darkdancer

I second multi-classing as a wizard, but with a different familiar:  a hairy spider (FRCS) - very cool for administering ghoul touch or shocking grasp...


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## Mustrum_Ridcully

Rogue Bard gives good synergy effects. We have such a character in our current group. He is not "combat effective" - not directly, at least. His Herald`s trumpet (the reason why he CAN´T fight  ) gives us a nice +2 attack / +2 damage, so we have no problems with it, and he is still very good in his rogue/thief job.

Rogue Barbarian is also nice, and probably the better idea if you really want to go the two weapon fighting route.
You might look in the Masters of the Wild for the Barbarian Rage based feats (hehe - a Halfling using Intimidating Rage seems like fun)
You could even multiclass Rogue, Barbarian and Bard (Skald?), but this will become very difficult to handle. 

A Halfling Rider with spirited charge can become awesome destructive (at least for his size), and a dog can even go through a dungeon.  But I do not really think that is an option for you.


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## Henry

Interesting thing about multiclassing with Rogues - Rogues are like Bread - they go well with almost everything. 

I am also surprised no one suggested the Psion class (especially nomad) - a rogue who can spider climb at will, or skate across open or even rough terrain, and can move those extra two steps as part of your action means more to those flankers than you will ever know. And if you gain 3 or 4 levels of Psion, what Rogue WOULDN'T like to stun everyone in a 60' cone (thanks to mind blast) in a 60' area for 3-12 rounds? 

Another suggestion would be Rogue/Wizard(Illusionist) or (transmuter). You can pack some useful spells, and an illusion is worth his own weight in gold to a Rogue "on the Lam."


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## Wuxia

Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster


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## LostSoul

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> *They may be cross class, but your skill cap becomes level+3 instead of half that... *




That's a good point, especially for Fighters.  A human Fighter who can take Expertise (4 skill points per level) can keep Spot and Listen maxed out if he takes a level of Rogue (or Ranger).


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## reapersaurus

hong said:
			
		

> *A class is a skillset. Being a paladin is a state of mind. There's no reason the two can't be compatible. *



oh..   really?
So I guess it's viable to have a paladin advance in levels of assassin then, since that poison use is just a "skill set".

Do you just knee-jerk post stuff in opposition to people, or do you actually think about the situation or discussion at hand?
I'm beginning to wonder about you hong.
You sometimes post good stuff, but sometimes it's close to trolls-ville.

To say that a rogue's skills don't quite mesh with a paladin's values is really missing the boat, methinks.
unless you think of a disguise-wearing, sneaky, forging, hiding, pick-pocketing, backstabbing paladin as a viable character-concept.

It's just skills, right?


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## LostSoul

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *unless you think of a disguise-wearing, sneaky, forging, hiding, pick-pocketing, backstabbing paladin as a viable character-concept.*




That sounds like a viable character concept to me...


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## hong

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *oh..   really?
> So I guess it's viable to have a paladin advance in levels of assassin then, since that poison use is just a "skill set".
> *




Now you're just being silly, or perhaps you really don't know the difference between base and prestige classes.



> *
> Do you just knee-jerk post stuff in opposition to people, or do you actually think about the situation or discussion at hand?
> I'm beginning to wonder about you hong.
> You sometimes post good stuff, but sometimes it's close to trolls-ville.
> *




Only sometimes? I must be slipping.



> *
> To say that a rogue's skills don't quite mesh with a paladin's values is really missing the boat, methinks.
> unless you think of a disguise-wearing, sneaky, forging, hiding, pick-pocketing, backstabbing paladin as a viable character-concept.
> 
> It's just skills, right? *




Yep. Off the top of my head, Frodo and Sam used the following roguish class skills in LOTR:

- Disguise
- Hide
- Move Silently
- Bluff
- Diplomacy
- Sense Motive
- Spot
- Listen

... and to my mind, if Frodo and Sam don't fit the mould of lawful goodness, no-one does.

A rogue is basically someone who specialises in subtlety. Some of the rogue's class skills will be less relevant to a character whose job is to be a scout, point man or diplomat, just as other skills will be less relevant to someone who's a mugger or pickpocket. The idea that all rogues must be larcenous is something that should have died with 1E -- even 2E went to pains to point out that rogues aren't all the same.


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## Ace

Wuxia said:
			
		

> *Rogue/Wizard/Arcane Trickster *




Darn strait. If when you reach 20th level you can still IIRC cast 9th level spells. rog3/wiz7/arctrx10 

mmm Sneaky Archmage....


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## Deedlit

Rogue/Druid
You are sneaky, but not in an urban way.  You can do what it takes to survive, and have a feline companion to help you.  You hunt together(Like lions do) with your companion.  You rely in your hide and move silently first.  If a hunt fails, you can entagle your enemies and run.


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## nopantsyet

One of my players is Rog/Ftr/Wiz and it is a very cool combination.  He's wants to eventually take Arcane Trickster.  Every battle is different with him because he's got so many options.  He just learned Invisibility and that combined with his high Move Silently makes him wicked at sneak attacks, which he can execute equally well whether melee, ranged, or a spell.


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## -Ekimus-

what book is the arcane trickster in?


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## bret

Ace said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Darn strait. If when you reach 20th level you can still IIRC cast 9th level spells. rog3/wiz7/arctrx10
> 
> mmm Sneaky Archmage.... *




Need at least 4 ranks of Rogue or 3 ranks of Rogue and one of Bard, LoreMaster or some other PrC that has Decipher Script as a class skill.

The Arcane Trickster requires 7 ranks of Decipher Script, which is an exclusive skill. You can't buy it cross class and you are limited to Class Level +3 when buying it as the class.


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## bret

-Ekimus- said:
			
		

> *what book is the arcane trickster in? *




Tome & Blood.


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## -Ekimus-

o ok
thanks bret


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## Bobbystopholes

Rogue3/Cleric7/Contemplative1/Rogue the rest...

Cleric of Oldimmara
*Domains*: _Luck_ (always good to reroll that save or die roll), _Trickery_ (invisibility 2nd level slot!  Take scribe scroll and go to town)

You vow to "liberate" holy artifacts from dungeons and such for the church... but you keep the other trinkets you find along the way   Get in real good with your god, doing the godly stuff, exemplifying the trickyness, then become a contemplative taking the Celerity Domain from DotF.  Oh yeah.

Hide is still a class skill, so you won't lose too much.  Hopefully you have a good int so you can still pick up most of your skills.  You can also take Extend spell and such to make your invisibility and such last longer and longer...

I love clerics...


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## madriel

What skills/feats/PrC would ppl recommend for a rogue/ranger?


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## hong

madriel said:
			
		

> *What skills/feats/PrC would ppl recommend for a rogue/ranger? *




I assume you mean a wilderness scout sorta character, as opposed to the standard 1 ranger/X rogue two-weapon-wielding sneak attack specialist?  Alertness, the various archery feats, Endurance, Dodge, Mobility, Shot on the Run might all be good. Any of the rogue-related feats in S&S, and the ranger-related ones in MotW, could also work. Skills to max out would be Hide, Move Silently, Listen and Spot. Other good ones include Disable Device, Search, Wilderness Lore and Intuit Direction.

Not too sure about PrCs, but any archery-related one might be good. I'm not a big fan of most of the published WOTC PrCs myself.


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## Luke Green

I played a Paladin/Rogue of Kelemvor once

created after encountering one too many Lawful Stupid paladin players.

Statistically, the race was hengeyokai, the GM was letting me play it as a wererat.

I played her in a PbPost on Mythweavers for a year and a half and successfulyl had the other players thinking she was a human rogue with a high UMD and lots of stuff.  I did this without ever lying or otherwise breaking the code.

Also, a key feat for paladin/rogue exists for 3.5 in Complete Adventurer...I believe anyway, my books are in another country...think it was called "Divine Inquisitor" upshot, gave you a benefit of some sort forget what exactly, and allowed Paladin and Rogue levels to stack for smite and sneak attack.

And somewhere, there was a feat that let sneak attack work vs undead.

EDIT: Oh, I remember the benefit now, when you used a smite at the same time as a sneak attack, they combined for extra effect somehow


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## Oryan77

Am I seeing this right? An 11 year old thread necromancy? You sir, are very powerful!

I had a blast playing an 11th level Rogue with 3 levels of Swashbuckler & 2 levels of Fighter in City of the Spider Queen (3.5 edition).

I wanted a utility character, and playing this PC is when I learned just how powerful (and awesome) maxing out Use Magic Device actually is. He could cast utility spells from scrolls and use divine scrolls to remove nasty conditions (was really nice since we had no cleric). I also learned that if you want to dish out the most damage from melee attacks, then you focus on static bonus damage rather than extra dice damage to roll. Having +16 damage per attack with 6 attacks on a full attack, along with having Improved Critical feat for 2 rapiers meant I was getting quite a lot of crits and dishing out close to the same damage as the power attacking tank without sneak attacking. If I got to sneak attack, I was doing up to 300 points or more of damage in a full attack.

Use Magic Device is really what made it fun though. Fighting a Beholder taught me a very nice lesson, I didn't need my magic items & spells to kill things as a Rogue. So I kept an Antimagic Field scroll on me and when I got hit with a high level save or die spell that requires new saves every round, the scroll saved my life. It also was great to run up to a buffed enemy or an arcane caster and stick him with the rapiers while in my Antimagic Field. Having a high Dex meant my AC was still better than theirs while neither of us benefited from magic.


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## sheadunne

In 3.5 my preferred rogue combo was the teleporting swashbuckler. Rogue/Swashbuckler/Wizard (Conjurer). I think it was Darling Outlaw that allowed the stacking of Sneak Attack for Rogue/Swashbuckler levels. You only needed 2 levels of rogue then it was Swashbuckler for a while, alternating with Wizard. After 10 it was pretty much all Wizard if I remember correctly. Lots of fun. No place he couldn't get and no one was safe. I think I took the familiar swap 10' teleport as well. There were a lot of alt builds put into the Character.


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## Dannyalcatraz

I like mixing in armored Mage types- Beguilers, Battle Sorcerers, duskblades, etc.- depending on what I'm going for.  I also like Psionic multiclassing.


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## RogueJB

In my current campaign i'm a level 5 Rogue, I'm planning to multicast into a fighter simply for bonus feats, BAB and health for a few levels. My rolls were pretty bad I intend to use a couple feats to compensate. My Rogues primary weapon is a Bastard sword. I intend to-take Cleave as a bonus feat as well as weapon focus on my Bastard sword.

The Goal- Deal sneak damage into cleave and kill two+ enemies in a flanking maneuver/ambush.


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