# MTV---Rembember when it was cool?



## GrayLinnorm (Jul 25, 2005)

Well, they announced the nominations for the MTV Video Awards today. If you don't recognize any of them, don't feel too bad. Why does MTV even bother to have video awards when they don't play videos anymore? These complaints have been going on for over 10 years, but the situation has only gotten worse! And MTV2, the station they launched because MTV doesn't play videos anymore, doesn't play videos anymore either --- so what's the point? Doesn't MTV know that reality is on its way out? Their ratings have gone down, but they're still going to put on even more crappy reality shows! When is MTV going to get someone in charge of their programming who realizes that 1) the M in MTV is supposed to stand for Music 2) MTV does not need to do a Real World marathon every day! 
They also gave two nominations to the ridiculous Mariah Carey, who has never made a decent video in her life! Remember when MTV was cool?


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 25, 2005)

Well, no.

Always been lame in my eyes, but I'm pretty young (20).

VH1 gets better ratings here, I've heard.


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## Tetsubo (Jul 25, 2005)

I can remember when MTV didn't exist. When HBO only ran shows for a few hours a day. But I'm old...

I do wish that MTV and MTV2 would play more and a greater variety of videos. While I realize that rap and hip hop are legitimate musical forms, I tire of seeing nothing but those genres on the channels.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 25, 2005)

Tetsubo said:
			
		

> While I realize that rap and hip hop...




Hell, I would be happy to see a rap or hip hop video all the way through on MTV, MTV2 or VH1. The music-video channels hardly ever play music videos any more, and when they do play then they chop off one end or the other.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 25, 2005)

Unless it's highly exaggerated, I suspect the videos-vs.-other-stuff rate is a bit more in 
favour of the videos on MTV Europe than on the US version. It has a lot of non video 
stuff, but it seems to me to be fairly largely just videos and discussion thereof, still.

But I don't watch much MTV, I only surf through it every now and then and see snippets.

As for VH1, I don't remember ever seeing non-video related shows other than the 'Behind 
the Music' specials.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 25, 2005)

*I* remember when MTV was cool... and I miss it so.  I got my own TV around age 6... and from that time until I graduated high school, MTV was the constant back-drop.  It was *always* on.

I loved the sketch shows.  I loved Matt Pinfield.  I loved MTV's Amp.  I loved Cartoon Sushi (one of my favorite shows of all time).  Hell - I even loved Siffle and Ollie (spelling?).

But - with every passing year - MTV becomes more and more intolerable.  We get VH1 classics which has excellent videos from the 80's and MTV Hits - both of which show videos 24/7... I'll tune in every now and again... but it'll never be the same.

Beastie Boys, Pearl Jam, Bjork, and so many, many others - I miss you, I miss your videos.  

I want my MTV.


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## Hijinks (Jul 25, 2005)

I used to get up an hour early every morning when I was in high school, just to watch the top 10 video countdown on MTV.  I remember when Def Leppard's "Love Bites" was #1 for like 9 weeks in a row or some other ridiculous time frame.



> They also gave two nominations to the ridiculous Mariah Carey, who has never made a decent video in her life!



She has big breasteses.  That be why.  She has an admirable vocal range but her style sucks.


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## Dagger75 (Jul 25, 2005)

Glad I have digital cable.  It has music channels that play nithing but music, no videos just the music.

 MTV was cool way back in the 80's.  They had nothing but music videos and then had a game show called Remote Control.  It sucked after that.


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## Crothian (Jul 25, 2005)

MTV hasn't been cool in well over a decade.  I haven't watched it in quitea while and frankly I don't miss it.


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## KenM (Jul 25, 2005)

I'm so old, I remember when MTV accually played music videos.


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## mattcolville (Jul 26, 2005)

Obviously most of the people here posting about how cool MTV was are not the target audience for the channel.

The target audience hasn't changed, we've just all gotten older.

Now, MTV is what they call a "lifestyle" channel. In the early days, they didn't have that many videos, didn't know what would work, and so experimented. But as time has gone on, they've become as successful as anyone could hope to be at what all stations want; selling ads to corporations.

Now, they're extremely effective at targeting a narrow demographic, and selling products and lifestyle to them.


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## Vraille Darkfang (Jul 26, 2005)

mattcolville said:
			
		

> Obviously most of the people here posting about how cool MTV was are not the target audience for the channel.




Not so much we're not the target demon.... Wait I AM in the key demographic (males 18-34).  And I don't watch MTV anymore.  Nor MTV2. Nor VH1 (don't get MTV Hits anymore, I really liked that one).

Reality shoes are cheap.  If only a few people watch them, the network still makes cash.

That's why no execs REALLY talk about how good their shows are.  They don't care.  As long as enough people watch that they charge advetisors enough to make a decent profit, that's what they are going to do.

It's no longer about putting on the best you can do (that's expensive and risky; and requires ACTUAL talent).  It's all about how cheap can we make something, yet still find enough advertsiers willing to pay X.

It's not even about making as much as you can (after all you have to risk a lot to make a lot), its about squeezing every last penny out of the horse turds you proudly put out every season.

Thus sucky = some profit without risk.

I return you to ENWorld 8, where we have dwarves wrestling elves in jello and the orc just had a ability score transplant.

Heck, CMT isn't airing videos anymore.  Just Dukes of Hazzard & Cowboy U.

They all suck.  (When Beavis & Butt-head; the characters, not the writers, are more brillant, thoughtful, and interesting than anything on your schedule, you might want to re-think you title of Executive Director & replace it with crap director).


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## reveal (Jul 26, 2005)

I was there when it went live. I loved watching it and used to tape the audio with my tape recorder so I could listen to songs later. The last time I watched it on a regular basis was back when I was in the AF. My roommate and I would turn on the top 20 countdown every morning as we got ready for work. This was about 1995. I haven't watched it regularly since. It's crap and has been crap for a long, long time.


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## CrusaderX (Jul 26, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> MTV was cool way back in the 80's.  They had nothing but music videos and then had a game show called Remote Control.  It sucked after that.




I was going to say the exact same thing.  Though a young Kari Wuhrer was hot.      But the channel definitely went downhill from that point on.


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## fett527 (Jul 26, 2005)

Tetsubo said:
			
		

> I can remember when MTV didn't exist. When HBO only ran shows for a few hours a day. But I'm old...
> 
> I do wish that MTV and MTV2 would play more and a greater variety of videos. While I realize that rap and hip hop are legitimate musical forms, I tire of seeing nothing but those genres on the channels.




ahh the days of Headbanger's Ball and Hard 30 (then Hard 60 then back to Hard 30 and then....)


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## Staffan (Jul 26, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> Glad I have digital cable.  It has music channels that play nithing but music, no videos just the music.



That's what we old farts like to call "radio."


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## reveal (Jul 26, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> That's what we old farts like to call "radio."




What is this strange "radio" you speak of?


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## Kanegrundar (Jul 26, 2005)

I remember the good ol' MTV.  I haven't watched anything on MTV since Jackass went into sporadic re-runs.  (There's something inherently funny to me to watch idiots hurt themselves...)  Now, I listen to Yahoo Music, VH1 Classic, CD's, or the radio (though that's been on the local sports talk station non-stop since baseball started up for the season).

Kane


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## BiggusGeekus (Jul 26, 2005)

I didn't have cabel as a kid, but I loved MTV.  I stopped liking it after "Downtown Julie Brown" started introducing "rock blocks" of two songs by the same artist.  That didn't really qualify as a block in my book.  When I first got cabel I watched MTV because it had a cartoon on I liked called "The Maxx", which was about a woman's superego and id coming to life and battleing it out, it was a pretty trippy show and I liked it.  Other than that I haven't liked anything on MTV.

... with the possible exception of Spice Girls videos, but they were always on mute ...


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## Lord Rasputin (Jul 26, 2005)

I remember when I considered MTV "cool." 1987. Played the damn station constantly. (That and CNN.) I was in junior high.

Then I realized two things:

1) Music videos are truly an awful idea. When I listen to a song, I want to have my own images.

2) The commercially produced music of the 1980s was pretty damn awful. And it only got worse from there.

Within a few years I was a complete progger, and haven't really changed since. As most of the bands I like either broke up or started sucking around 1980, I have no desire to watch MTV. The Internet has all the pictures of Mariah Carey I'll ever want, and I don't actually have to listen to her "music" to look at them.

I'd actually consider watching MTV if the other programming was cool. I liked Remote Control. I loved Beavis and Butt-head (huh-huh).


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## Dagger75 (Jul 26, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> That's what we old farts like to call "radio."





 You mean that thing in my car that plays nothing but damn commercials for car companies occasionaly interuppted by music.


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## Arrellion (Jul 26, 2005)

I remember when MTV started. They played "Video killed the Radio Star" by the 
Buggles (spelling?). It would be nice if they began playing videos again.


Arrel


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## Swoop109 (Jul 26, 2005)

I stopped watching when Martha Quinn left.


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## John Crichton (Jul 26, 2005)

I guess some younger folk still like it as it's still around and making money.  I'm nearing 30 and I recall the times when huge stars new videos were a big deal.  Madonna.  Michael Jackson.  Metallica (early 90's when things started to fade).  Weird Al (AL TV!).  U2.  Meatloaf.  Etc, etc, etc...

I remember The Weasel.  I remember hating him and loving the stupidity.

I remember when VJs mattered.  They really did for a while there.

I remember the only time when Colin Quinn was really funny.

I remember Yo! MTV Raps.

I remember Curt Loder and his monotone - the Peter Jennings of my generation.

I remember the ton of hot babe VJs.  From Downtown Julie Brown to Tabitha Soren.

Good times.  Good times...


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## trancejeremy (Jul 26, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> You mean that thing in my car that plays nothing but damn commercials for car companies occasionaly interuppted by music.




Yeah, that's another thing that has gone downhill. I remember when radio didn't suck, and have commercials 35-40 minutes to an hour.

Thankfully there are alternatives now, like the music channels on TV or Satelite radio


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## GlassJaw (Jul 26, 2005)

The best thing on MTV/MTV2 is Headbanger's Ball.  Other than that, I don't need a 12-hour marathon of "Date My Mom" or some such nonsense.


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## Gentlegamer (Jul 26, 2005)

I do indeed!  I have images of lots and lots of Aerosmith and Def Leopard videos in my head from 20 years ago . . .


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## Tetsubo (Jul 26, 2005)

I can remember, "Video Killed The Radio Star"... boy I'm old...


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## devilbat (Jul 26, 2005)

Maybe it's just a result of my general immaturity, or perhaps it's because it's not available to me in Canada, thus it's a forbidden fruit, but I love MTV.

When it is available to us at home, it's the most watched channel on TV in my household.  Both my wife, and not surprisingly, my eleven year old daughter watch it regularly.


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## David Howery (Jul 26, 2005)

I remember MTV in it's early years... it didn't really get going until I was 20 or so (dang, I must be old too).  I quit watching it when rap and metal started taking it over.  VH1 was pretty good but it seemed that whenever I was around to watch it, they were showing 'Top 100 something or other' or other non-video stuff.  Nowadays, I don't even have cable tv, and don't really miss it...


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## The_Universe (Jul 26, 2005)

The last (and only, as far as I'm concerned) time that MTV was cool was when they were playing the marvelous Clone High, USA (unjustly cancelled to make room for PUNK'D! YARGH!). And maybe when they were playing the original Ren and Stimpy. 

But that's it. If MTV went off the air today, I don't think I'd notice.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 26, 2005)

Do they even play videos any more? 

MTV 1 & 2 seems to air nothing but an endless, sad and utterly contemptible collection of generality shows about music celebrities, their houses, cars, clothing, hair styles and so forth while VH1 seems to air nothing but an endless, sad  and utterly contemptible collection of pseudo-documentaries about stupid things/funny things/sexy things/sad things that happened a few years ago and endless lists of titles of good music videos they never play in an apparent deliberate to add insult to injury, and all of this is commented on and narrated by a large and pitiable collection of washed-up, washed-out celeb-wanna-bes who if you met in real life you would chew off your arm to avoid a conversation with so why are they being given endless hours of TV time to tell us about hip thing that happened 49 months ago in some other place and taunting us by telling us about all the nifty music videos we will never see on these channels which once upon a time were both bold and daring and with aired music videos with a fierce bravo!

(G.C. blinks a few times…)

Sorry. That’s been percolating inside of me for a while now.


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## Staffan (Jul 26, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> What is this strange "radio" you speak of?





			
				Queen said:
			
		

> I'd sit alone and watch your light
> My only friend through teenage nights
> And everything I had to know
> I heard it on my radio
> ...



That.


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## Desdichado (Jul 26, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The last (and only, as far as I'm concerned) time that MTV was cool was when they were playing the marvelous Clone High, USA (unjustly cancelled to make room for PUNK'D! YARGH!). And maybe when they were playing the original Ren and Stimpy.



Bleagh!  Take your Clone High and Ren and Stimpy and get them out of the way for music videos.  That was _the whole freakin' point_ of the channel.  MTV hasn't been cool since 1990, or maybe even before that.  Sadly, the thing that started them downhill was the success of Remote Control, which wasn't a bad show, but it gave the suits the idea that hey! maybe we don't have to play music videos all the time and people will still watch us!   :\


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## jasper (Jul 26, 2005)

MTV was cool until I noticed I was listen to crappy songs just for the videos. Then I remember I had a radio and discovered a crappy song is still a crappy song even if the video was cool. Of course i remember before mtv there were Friday and Saturday video tv shows. Of course this when cable went from channel 2 to 13 and one or two of those were Hbo.


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## Desdichado (Jul 26, 2005)

jasper said:
			
		

> MTV was cool until I noticed I was listen to crappy songs just for the videos. Then I remember I had a radio and discovered a crappy song is still a crappy song even if the video was cool. Of course i remember before mtv there were Friday and Saturday video tv shows. Of course this when cable went from channel 2 to 13 and one or two of those were Hbo.



See, I like 80s music a lot, though, so MTV being cool in the 80s and music in general being cool in the 80s make a lot of sense to me.  That's not particularly why I don't like MTV today, but if MTV played music videos anymore, it might be.  I just don't like as much music today.

Although the "Stacey's Mom" video (and song) r0xx0rzed.  Not that that's really *new* anymore, but anything more recent than 1995 or so still seems new to me.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jul 26, 2005)

Jasper, I remember all of those things as well and I agree with your statement. However, you should have used [angry old man voice] and [/angry old man voice] in addition to starting the comment with the phrase "I my day..." and ending the comment with "...and we liked it!"


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## Elf Witch (Jul 26, 2005)

I was there when MTV went live too. It was alwyas on as background when I was home. I really used to kick out of the videos some of them were just so creative. One of my favorites was Duran Durans Union of the Snake video. 

There were a lot of videos that had wonderful fantasy or SF elements to them.

I have not watched it for years I HATE hip hop and rap music. 

For a while VH1 was a good channel until it became nothing but reality shows. Though I do like their countdown shows. 

I hate listening to the radio in the car the morning shows bug the hell out of me I just wish they would shut up and play music.


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## MaxKaladin (Jul 26, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> See, I like 80s music a lot, though, so MTV being cool in the 80s and music in general being cool in the 80s make a lot of sense to me.  That's not particularly why I don't like MTV today, but if MTV played music videos anymore, it might be.  I just don't like as much music today.
> 
> Although the "Stacey's Mom" video (and song) r0xx0rzed.  Not that that's really *new* anymore, but anything more recent than 1995 or so still seems new to me.



I Agree.  That is pretty much all I have to say.


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## AuroraGyps (Jul 27, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The last (and only, as far as I'm concerned) time that MTV was cool was when they were playing the marvelous Clone High, USA (unjustly cancelled to make room for PUNK'D! YARGH!). And maybe when they were playing the original Ren and Stimpy.




Yup, videos and cartoons.. that's what I loved about MTV.  I liked Clone High too, and Daria, and the short lived Down Town.  I also like the video countdowns (like the one with all the comedians and Vanilla Ice went nuts with a bat), Head Bangers Ball, and who remembers Closet Classics.  I liked it, but I went through a 60's/70's phase way back when.  

Yup, I feel old too.  *I* remember when Howard Stern was on WNBC (now The Fan) and was funny, and not as controversial.   

Ah, good times... good times.


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## Richards (Jul 27, 2005)

"...Springsteen, Madonna, way before Nirvana
There was U2, and Blondie, and music still on MTV.
Her two kids in high school, they tell her that she's uncool
'Cause she's still preoccupied
With 19--
19--
1985."

Johnathan, quoting lyrics from a song from the radio by a group called "Bowling for Soup" (I think)


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## Richards (Jul 27, 2005)

But yeah, I'm in the same boat as many of you.  I was in college when MTV first came on the air, and I saw the very first airing of "Video Killed the Radio Star" video by the Buggles, which will forevermore hold a special spot in the music video world.  (It's still a cool song, too, I think.)  I haven't watched MTV since "Daria" went off the air, and even then I had long since given up watching it for music videos.

Johnathan


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## tec-9-7 (Jul 27, 2005)

I very vaguely remember when MTV actually showed music videos.


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## RedShirtNo5 (Jul 27, 2005)

I remember Night Tracks.

-RedShirt


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## Krug (Jul 27, 2005)

Article about media and... tangentially about MTV



> The BBC has shown that outstanding television coverage of Darfur is possible. And, incredibly, mtvU (the MTV channel aimed at universities) has covered Darfur more seriously than any network or cable station. When MTV dispatches a crew to cover genocide and NBC doesn't, then we in journalism need to hang our heads.


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## MojoGM (Jul 27, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> You mean that thing in my car that plays nothing but damn commercials for car companies occasionaly interuppted by music.




I have a solution:

Sirus Sat. Radio!

or XM I suppose, but i prefer Sirius.


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## Kanegrundar (Jul 27, 2005)

MojoGM said:
			
		

> I have a solution:
> 
> Sirus Sat. Radio!
> 
> or XM I suppose, but i prefer Sirius.



 For home, a membership to Live365 or Launchcast is a great investment as well.

Kane


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## Thornir Alekeg (Jul 27, 2005)

What I remember was getting my music news from MTV - forthcoming albums, tour dates etc.  Now you can get all that online.  I also remember begging to be allowed to stay up on Sunday nights for the one show on MTV that played alternative music.  IIRC it was called "120 minutes."  There were a lot of groups I loved that I could only hear on that show.  When the Kate Bush video for "Experiment IV" premiered on that show I watched it live and taped it (on my Betamax) so I could watch it again and again.

Today I would just download it.  

Other than sometimes checking out Punk'd, I never bother with MTV anymore, and I really don't miss it except from a pure nostalgia perspective.


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## Orius (Jul 28, 2005)

GrayLinnorm said:
			
		

> Well, they announced the nominations for the MTV Video Awards today. If you don't recognize any of them, don't feel too bad. Why does MTV even bother to have video awards when they don't play videos anymore? These complaints have been going on for over 10 years, but the situation has only gotten worse! And MTV2, the station they launched because MTV doesn't play videos anymore, doesn't play videos anymore either --- so what's the point? Doesn't MTV know that reality is on its way out? Their ratings have gone down, but they're still going to put on even more crappy reality shows! When is MTV going to get someone in charge of their programming who realizes that 1) the M in MTV is supposed to stand for Music 2) MTV does not need to do a Real World marathon every day!
> They also gave two nominations to the ridiculous Mariah Carey, who has never made a decent video in her life! Remember when MTV was cool?




MTV used to play videos?    

No, seriously I do remember when MTV still played some videos, though that was when the channel was already starting to be drowned out by non music.  Beavis and Butthead was funny though, and I always enjoyed their braindead commentaries on videos more than their stupid escapades.

But no, I do not remember when MTV was "cool".  That was back in the beginning before my parents got cable (and I was under 10 at the time), so I missed the cool era.  Never watched it that much during high school either, and I could never understand how my peers could sit through it all damn day.


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## Orius (Jul 28, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Sadly, the thing that started them downhill was the success of Remote Control, which wasn't a bad show, but it gave the suits the idea that hey! maybe we don't have to play music videos all the time and people will still watch us!   :\




Not just Remote control, but Real World (the first one) as well.  They started the long death of MTV.


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## Ashwyn (Jul 28, 2005)

Just for the sake of accuracy, MTV does still play videos. It's only a third of the daily schedule, but there you go.


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## Desdichado (Jul 28, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> Not just Remote control, but Real World (the first one) as well.  They started the long death of MTV.



Yep, I agree.  Real World and Beavis & Butthead were later than Remote Control, but they are what changed the slow decline of MTV into a headlong lemming-like dash for the edge of the cliff.


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## reveal (Jul 28, 2005)

Ashwyn said:
			
		

> Just for the sake of accuracy, MTV does still play videos. It's only a third of the daily schedule, but there you go.




Today's MTV Schedule (from tvguide.com):

7am-9am - Videos
9am - Midnight - Not Videos
Midnight - 7am - Videos

So, ya, in a 24 hour period 38% of the time is dedicated to videos.


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## Desdichado (Jul 28, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Today's MTV Schedule (from tvguide.com):
> 
> 7am-9am - Videos
> 9am - Midnight - Not Videos
> ...



Yes, but those are the times when nobody is watching MTV too, keep in mind.


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## reveal (Jul 28, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Yes, but those are the times when nobody is watching MTV too, keep in mind.




Oh I know. I was just trying to point out that, yeah, they play videos for more than a 1/3 of the day but at times that, as you pointed out, no one is watching it. Most people in the age group that MTV targets get up after 9am, or can't watch TV before 9am, and if they are awake after midnight, they're probably not sitting around watching MTV.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jul 29, 2005)

They have music videos on MTV?!?!?!?!?!      

Who'd'a'thunk that?!?! They have too much non-videos programming on that I've pretty much quit watching MTV unless it's in the mid-morning when they *do* have a few vids on.


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## GentleGiant (Jul 30, 2005)

While I doubt that you guys across the pond ever saw these shows, the ones I miss the most (on MTV Europe) - besides the music video's, of course - are the ones with Ray Cokes as the VJ. *Ray's Request* and *MTV's Most Wanted* were the greatest shows ever on MTV.
To give you an idea of the shows, let me quote Ray himself:

_I think that you can explain the success of Most Wanted very easily. The programme is a relief between all those other pre-recorded shows. It introduces viewers to the reality: Most Wanted has some kind of 'Hey! Everyone makes mistakes. MTV VJ's aren't as special as you might think. Look I'm losing my hair and I tell bad jokes!' We show that MTV isn't a smooth running machine, but a channel that makes many mistakes. I find that human aspect very important.

During the Most Wanted days I received 2000 letters a day, of which 75 to 80% were from female viewers. I read most of them and I discovered that you can put most of the writers in 3 categories:


14 to 17 year-olds that see me as some kind of pop star. They write that they find the show brilliant and they ask me if I want to marry them.
18 to 24 year-olds react more to the things discussed or asked on the show. Or they write in with tips and constructive criticism that I take very seriously.
Writers who describe in great detail how they want to spend a night with me and they attach a revealing photo. Maybe it's my own fault for flirting with the viewers.
_


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## GrayLinnorm (Aug 3, 2005)

I'm glad this thread got the support it has.  Thanks.  Now I just found that Mariah Carey is going to perform at the Video Music Awards! She was just on the Movie Awards; shouldn't that have been enough? Mariah Carey and movie awards are two things that don't go together! I didn't watch the Movie Awards this year because of Mariah; now that whiny talentless freak had to ruin the VMAs.  And MTV's awrards were the only things on during the summer.

I don't want my MTV anymore.....


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## Laurel (Aug 3, 2005)

MTV at one time was the thing to watch... then it went to tv shows instead of music, and finally tv shows that had very little to nothign to do with music.  And so they put MTV2 out there, and it played music videos for a short while... but even that could not last apparently.

So now they are the disney channel for high school through early college.


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## BrooklynKnight (Aug 4, 2005)

MojoGM said:
			
		

> I have a solution:
> 
> Sirus Sat. Radio!
> 
> or XM I suppose, but i prefer Sirius.




I might be working for them soon.

If you catch a show by a DJ named Demos, give him a call and say Arthur said Hi! 

He's also on K-Rock he's one of the better nighttime DJ's.


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## BrooklynKnight (Aug 4, 2005)

Richards said:
			
		

> "...Springsteen, Madonna, way before Nirvana
> There was U2, and Blondie, and music still on MTV.
> Her two kids in high school, they tell her that she's uncool
> 'Cause she's still preoccupied
> ...




Yep, thats a great song. 1985 by Bowling for Soup


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## Frostmarrow (Aug 4, 2005)

GentleGiant said:
			
		

> While I doubt that you guys across the pond ever saw these shows, the ones I miss the most (on MTV Europe) - besides the music video's, of course - are the ones with Ray Cokes as the VJ. *Ray's Request* and *MTV's Most Wanted* were the greatest shows ever on MTV.




Ray Cokes was the man! I remember when he dressed up as a reggae artist and went to some celebrity packed event and called himself Coke Rays. He passed himself off as a mega-celebrity and embarressed a lot of people who had never heard of Coke Rays. Hilarious.

Almost as fun as when Chris Isaac went around in LA (his hometown) asking people if they'd heard of him. -Which none had. Chris Isaac was also the man.

I never had MTV. I caught some of it at friends' places but I will not miss it when it disappears.


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## GentleGiant (Aug 4, 2005)

Frostmarrow said:
			
		

> Ray Cokes was the man! I remember when he dressed up as a reggae artist and went to some celebrity packed event and called himself Coke Rays. He passed himself off as a mega-celebrity and embarressed a lot of people who had never heard of Coke Rays. Hilarious.



Ahh yes... good times, good times


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## LightPhoenix (Aug 4, 2005)

First off, to whomever ever said males 18-35 are MTV's target demographic, I'd have to disagree.  I'd say both genders, 14-18 are the target demographics, but that's just me.

Secondly, the whole concept of MTV, whether they knew it or not, was doomed to failure from the start.  It's a testament to their staff that MTV still remains on television today.

See, the whole thing with music is that it was, and still is, portable.  Tapes had come out relatively recently, and walkmans were the big thing.  Mobility was/is a driving force in our culture, both here in the US and in many places across the globe.  Videos were neat things to create a buzz about a song, but couldn't be sold on cassettes, and couldn't be viewed on the road.  As technology progressed, we got CD players, which still lacked any sort of video output.  By this time, the music industry had realized that making videos was an exercise in throwing away money, basically.  The future of music was not in video, nor would it make any sense for it to be - it's an audial medium.  The exposure that a band got from a video contributed very little to it's sales, nor did selling the video to MTV make much moeny at all.  The internet and MP3 basically sealed the deal, making music extremely portable and providing an easier way to create buzz for a product.

Now, the future of video IMO rests on the very technologies that helped kill it dead - the internet and MP3 players.  One of the ways available for the music industry to develop is exploitation of the internet.  To this end, why not make videos and sell them online?  Or include them as extras on the CDs from the store?  Sure, you're going to have a percentage of piracy; piracy is an unfortunate side effect of the internet, and one that is here to stay.  However, I think they'll find that fans are very willing to support bands they like and this is one way to do it.


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## reveal (Aug 4, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> By this time, the music industry had realized that making videos was an exercise in throwing away money, basically.  The future of music was not in video, nor would it make any sense for it to be - it's an audial medium.  The exposure that a band got from a video contributed very little to it's sales, nor did selling the video to MTV make much moeny at all.




Do you have any figures to back this up? Otherwise, I disagree completely. I know many, many people who bought CDs because they heard the song on MTV and liked it. Many people will turn on the television for "background noise" before they turn on the radio. When I was in the dorms, my friends and I would turn it on and do other things but MTV was there. Heck, I remember specifically sitting down and watching the "new buzz" videos because I wanted to buy a new album but didn't know what to get. Two bands jumped out: Green Day and Live. I bought both of their debut albums and they became very popular after that; not because of me, of course, but because of a combination of mediums which included MTV.


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Aug 4, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Do you have any figures to back this up? Otherwise, I disagree completely. I know many, many people who bought CDs because they heard the song on MTV and liked it.



Indeed, I agree with you here. I had watched and read a number of news stories on the rise and success of MTV. Many executives reported that in the early days of MTV the songs that had videos in rotation on MTV had sales increases well above the norm of those that had no video yet.

It led to a sort of gradual "weapons race" in spending on making videos for some average quality songs by franchise artists so that their music would get the exposure on MTV. Sure, spending massive amount of money on "epic" videos was partly ego stroking for tempermental narcisistic musicians regardless of the quality of the music, good or bad (Gun and Roses' "November Rain" sequence of videos, and Meatloaf's Bat out of Hell videos), but many studios that had artists they wanted to make into huge stars would spend extravagently on videos so they got into regular rotation on MTV.

Alternatively, getting a video into rotation on MTV could get a musician or band that was pegged into one narrow niche (like when the punk-like The Offspring became big with Come out and Play) into Top 40 play, and thus greater sales.

MTV was once the best advertisement for music sales.  Was.  I don't think it is anymore...


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## Spell (Aug 4, 2005)

GrayLinnorm said:
			
		

> so what's the point? Doesn't MTV know that reality is on its way out? Their ratings have gone down, but they're still going to put on even more crappy reality shows! When is MTV going to get someone in charge of their programming who realizes that 1) the M in MTV is supposed to stand for Music 2) MTV does not need to do a Real World marathon every day!
> They also gave two nominations to the ridiculous Mariah Carey, who has never made a decent video in her life! Remember when MTV was cool?




i stopped watching Mtv ages ago (i think it was 1994), but i was never fooled by the hype. i remember very well that when nirvana put nevermind out they had videos in such a high rotation, that it could be dubbed Ntv (N standing for nirvana, of course).
the fact that the music was quite better (for my tastes) in those days, didn't make the Mtv people a selfish and dedicated lot.

with the recent "rebirth" of payola  (something that was always there since the 50s, really), it's not a surprise that you find crap on Mtv, or on the radio, or in the awards, and so on.

if they really cared about the music (mind you, not "cool" music, just music), people like britney spears would return working where they belong: porn industry or mcdonalds.


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## Spell (Aug 4, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Do you have any figures to back this up?




well, it is true that making a video costs a huge amount of money... but you are absolutely right that being exposed to the music is the key to increase the selling.
the majors got angry at the p2p free downloading thing, not because it really hurted the sales (maybe it did, but there were other reasons behind that, far more logical), but because p2p networks threatened their distribution (quasi-) monopoly.
if you have the freedom to decide what to download and what to try, you might not be inclinded to buy the last naughty word album by [insert major name here], and spend your money for the things you really really like.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 15, 2005)

I'm pleasantly surprised at how many people remember Remote Control.

wow - maybe there's enough support for a Best Of DVD season set.  (!)

As long as it featured the young delicious Kari Wuhrer, I'd snap that one up.  

And for the record - November Rain is a kick-ass song, so that's a bad example of indulgent videos for undeserving songs.


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## Aris Dragonborn (Aug 15, 2005)

Whoa. Them's some memories right there.

Remote Control, Friday Night Video Fights, Headbanger's Ball......

_*sigh*_

That very first video by the Buggles...."Video Killed The Radio Star".........

Now, it's "Reality Killed The Video Star".

To AC/DC, Def Leppard, Metallica, Soundgarden, and others:

I salute you, those great videos of my childhood days, now swallowed up by rides being pimped, celebs getting punk'd, and the real world.

We watched Mtv to escape reality, not to experience it through someone else's eyes.

VIVA LA REVOLUCION!


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Aug 15, 2005)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> And for the record - November Rain is a kick-ass song, so that's a bad example of indulgent videos for undeserving songs.



That's because it wasn't.

I said, "_Sure, spending massive amount of money on "epic" videos was partly ego stroking for tempermental narcisistic musicians regardless of the quality of the music, *good* or bad_."


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## WizarDru (Aug 15, 2005)

Yeah, I remember when MTv was good.

I remember ALTv. I remember when "Thriller" was an event. I remember when VJs actually were worth listening to. I remember when MTv was about MUSIC, and not lifestyles. I remember when MTv was RELEVANT.

MTv used to be THE place to go to for news about musicians, interviews, the latest music and videos. Oh sure, they didn't cover lots of lesser known acts...but they made lots of acts much bigger than they might otherwise have been, due to exposure. Want to know why so many UK artists hit it big in the early 80s? Because the UK had already been doing videos for a long time, thanks to shows like Top of the Pops. I mean, do you really think Juice Newton would have gotten as much as exposure as she did without the power of videos? Duran Duran was widely (and IMHO unfairly) criticized for being popular purely on the strength of the videos from the Rio album, and less on the album itself.

I remember shows like 120 Minutes and Headbangers Ball and YO! MTv Raps...when actual enthusiasts for those kinds of music actually got heard and there was some diversity of the material on the channel.  One didn't hear the Pixies or Sonic Youth or Bauhaus or dozens of other groups in regular rotation...but they did get played.

Anyone who caught MTv's "coverage" of Live8 should be able to tell that they've lost any connection with their audience and their goal.  Why bother covering the concerts if you're going to talk over the acts?  I listened to it over XM's 8 channel broadcast...and when we went in a restaurant to get dinner, I was appalled at their slapdash coverage of it.  It didn't matter if it was the Kaiser Chiefs, Green Day or Pink Floyd...they botched it all.

These days, MTv's role has been usurped by Fuse TV.


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## Mean Eyed Cat (Aug 15, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> When I first got cabel I watched MTV because it had a cartoon on I liked called "The Maxx", which was about a woman's superego and id coming to life and battleing it out, it was a pretty trippy show and I liked it.




I loved The Maxx.  Is that out on dvd yet?


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## Pseudonym (Aug 15, 2005)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> I also remember begging to be allowed to stay up on Sunday nights for the one show on MTV that played alternative music. IIRC it was called "120 minutes." There were a lot of groups I loved that I could only hear on that show. When the Kate Bush video for "Experiment IV" premiered on that show I watched it live and taped it (on my Betamax) so I could watch it again and again.




I remember a time when the definition of "alternative" was the music that they didn't play on MTV.  120 minutes came along and that changed somewhat.  It seems like so long ago.  Perhaps I am just getting old.


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## LightPhoenix (Aug 16, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Do you have any figures to back this up? Otherwise, I disagree completely. I know many, many people who bought CDs because they heard the song on MTV and liked it. Many people will turn on the television for "background noise" before they turn on the radio.




No, I don't have any figures. I would look it up except for that I'm not sure these figures exist. I wouldn't disagree with your general premise of people hearing the song on MTV buying the CD. It's no different than hearing a song on the radio, or downloading one song and then the rest of the album from iTunes or BitTorrent or what not.

However, I would strongly argue that the video had nothing to do with it, because of what you just typed. You didn't say "background visuals", you said "background *noise* (emphasis mine)". I would argue that is had nothing to do with videos, and everything to do with a) the play of songs as an audial medium on MTV, a popular channel, and b) the rapidly rising popularity of television, and cable television in particular, as an alternative noise filler to radio. I suspect you would be hard pressed to outline an unbiased correlation between video production and CD sales. On the other hand, I can easily show that singles played on the radio drive CD sales. If MTV was basically radio-television, then my point is easily shown, but yours is not.

Basically, MTV was no different than any of the "Top 40" radio stations, with the exception of videos. And I figure that if videos _were_ a significant method of generating revenue through CD sales, MTV would have maintained their early format through the efforts of the music industry. What actually happened is MTV basically abandoned videos altogether. That doesn't really instill me with the belief that videos were the cause, so much as hype. Hype can still be gotten on the radio, and can be gotten on TV without videos.

[edit] And my dream was sooo to be on remote control, and be flipped over backwards.


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## Soel (Aug 16, 2005)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> I also remember begging to be allowed to stay up on Sunday nights for the one show on MTV that played alternative music. IIRC it was called "120 minutes." There were a lot of groups I loved that I could only hear on that show.




This show was my favorite MTV show of all time, and exposed me to an entirely new world of music, and had a profound impact on my life. It had a sister program, Alternative Nation that aired weeknights but was only an hour long...

I also loved MTV's odd programs, like Liquid Television and Liquid Extract (sister program to the former) which featured cool and at the time, cutting edge animated vignettes and series. There is a dvd, but unfortunately it is missing a lot of the best material from the show. These shows paved the way for other animation to appear on MTV like Aeon Flux and MTV's Oddities (Maxx, the Head.)


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## WizarDru (Aug 16, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> I would argue that is had nothing to do with videos, and everything to do with a) the play of songs as an audial medium on MTV, a popular channel, and b) the rapidly rising popularity of television, and cable television in particular, as an alternative noise filler to radio. I suspect you would be hard pressed to outline an unbiased correlation between video production and CD sales. On the other hand, I can easily show that singles played on the radio drive CD sales. If MTV was basically radio-television, then my point is easily shown, but yours is not.




I return to my earlier point: there was a massive influx of UK bands who had never broken the charts in the US when MTv first came out, who were in large part attributed to MTv as the source of their success.  In the early 80s, MTv was a huge novelty; it's no accident that the 'hair bands' all consisted of pretty boys, and that some older bands struggled.  Videos quickly created an arms race amongst record producers - do you remember the hulabaloo around the videos for 'Thriller' or 'Blue Jean'?  How some videos had stories that ran through them?  Top 40 was influenced by MTv for a while, not the other way around.  Artists like Weird Al Yankovic, Men at Work, Human League, the Thompson Twins, Thomas Dolby, Duran Duran, Loverboy, Def Leppard, White Snake, and many others owed their success in some part to their clever or visually interesting videos.  Do you remember how Metallica threw the world on it's ear by being successful WITHOUT having a video?

The reason MTv didn't maintain their format is that A) Reality Shows are very cheap, B) Videos lost their marketing punch and C) sorting through all the videos became too much work.  In short, the novelty wore off, and videos became just another marketing tool.  The advent of the Internet has also removed a lot of MTv's 'gatekeeper' status.  Videos and band information was obtainable in a lot of other locations, and MTv realized quickly that it was no longer the go-to guy, any longer.  Consider a band like Tenacious D, which broke out through HBO, not MTv, or groups like the Decemberists or the Killers, who break through with grassroots movements, or Pitty Sing and Razorlight, who get exposure through movies or Royksopp and Powerman 5000, who get their big breaks via video games.

MTv was once a powerful marketing force and music industry mover-and-shaker...now they're a tired old has-been.  My name is Mok, and thanks a lot.


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## LightPhoenix (Aug 17, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Consider a band like Tenacious D, which broke out through HBO, not MTv, or groups like the Decemberists or the Killers, who break through with grassroots movements, or Pitty Sing and Razorlight, who get exposure through movies or Royksopp and Powerman 5000, who get their big breaks via video games.
> 
> MTv was once a powerful marketing force and music industry mover-and-shaker...now they're a tired old has-been. My name is Mok, and thanks a lot.




I would agree that MTV acted as a decent gateway, playing some stuff that hadn't ever been played before.  That doesn't change the fact that MTV acted not as a jumpstart for videos, but a jumpstart for music.  Had there been a nation-wide popular music station that played these songs, I have no doubt in my mind that they would be as popular as they are now.

To grab at two examples... Tenacious D is still very much a cult following.  I'd bet you that more people could tell you who Jack Black was because of his movies than because of Tenacious D.  The Killers got *known* through a grassroots movement, yes.  They got *popular* because of pop music stations pimping them.

MTV's only real strength was that they were basically a nation-wide music station - videos were purely secondary to that.  Again, the fact that MTV gave up on that is indicative that videos did not mean a thing sales-wise.  If it did, MYV would still be showing videos.  MTV does not show videos now, therefore it wasn't economically viable in any sense.  Meanwhile, bands *still* become popular because of radio pimping.  I'll bring up The Killers as a prime example of this... if their existence wasn't shoved down our throats by Top 40 stations (boo Clear Channel, boo) then they'd still be a fringe group.

Bands got popular on MTV because MTV pimped their music.  Same way they did now.  Videos were a novelty, as you said yourself.  If they weren't, we'd still have videos on MTV, instead of endless reruns of Real World and Road Rules.

MTV was definitely a huge musical force in the 80s, I'm not denying that.  The idea that it was because of videos is simply ludicrous though.  It was because of several factors, the very least of which was videos.  Culture at the time was embracing television in a way no one had before, and I'd argue no one has since.  MTV's ability to act as a national music station instead of a local one owed to it's popularity and it's influence.  The utter lack of any other major method of exposure to music outside of what was played locally added appeal.  The fact that Clear Channel and other conglomerates were _much_ less strong than they are now weakened opposition.  _These_ are why MTV was able to succeed as a music station, and even that barely at all.  Videos were simply icing, they were hardly the reason for success of MTV.

Again, if videos were what made MTV, then it would still play videos.  Once radio got it's act together (or subsumed in The Evil), once the internet came along, MTV simply died.  If videos meant anything, MTV would still exist.


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## WizarDru (Aug 17, 2005)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> To grab at two examples... Tenacious D is still very much a cult following. I'd bet you that more people could tell you who Jack Black was because of his movies than because of Tenacious D. The Killers got *known* through a grassroots movement, yes. They got *popular* because of pop music stations pimping them.




I see what you're saying, and I agree...to a point.  I think you undervalue the power of the video, particularly when they were new.  I remember middle-school and high-school, and how many videos in and off themselves were a topic of conversation...especially when they were linked together, often as a story of sorts.  And let's not forget, MTv does still show videos...just not at the times or in the quantity they used to.  Scoring a spot on Total Request Live is still a powerful marketing tool; the difference now is that the videos no longer have their huge appeal.  Certainly, a good video won't sell bad music (although that was argued pretty strongly in the early 80s, as I mentioned), but a bad video could hurt a good song.

I don't mean to make the case that the music was ancillary to the popularity of the bands...but Greg Kihn, for example, didn't break out of his local music scene on to the national one solely based on his music.  He, like plenty of other bands, reached the attention of a large audience because of his videos.  Yes, they were a gimmick...but if he hadn't made a video when videos were still a fledgling tool, he wouldn't have rose to stardom (and later plummeted just as quickly) without it.  Consider someone like Huey Lewis and the News or Chris De Burgh, consider the Fixx or Alphaville or aha.  All of them have continued to put out music for the last 20 years - but they have been shunted to the back bins of the world,  where many no longer even know they still put out albums.

In the 1982-1984 period, we had what was collectively called the Second British Invasion.  So pervasive was it, that for the first time ever (and only time since then) there were more British acts on the charts than American ones in the US Charts.  Why?  MTV.  All those bands had videos ready and willing to go, and MTV needed to fill the airwaves.  It took several years for US acts to catch up.  When they did, MTVs first true golden period was over....the field had been leveled.  Videos were a powerful tool ONCE...now they are just a part of the landscape. I mean, Thriller was selling adequately for Michael Jackson when it first came out: Epic threatened to withhold all their artists if MTV didn't show the "Thriller" video, so they played it.  The next week, the album (which had already been getting air-play nationwide) sold 800,000 albums.  Groups like Hall and Oates, who had been getting national airplay for over a decade, suddenly found their careers skyrocketing with their MTV exposure.  I think the truth may lie in the middle, though.  Being a national shared experience is a part of it, and the videos themselves were a part of it.  

Showing Videos is still commercially viable.  Fuse shows that, and MTV2 used to.  But Viacom realizes that it can make more money with it's own cheap programming than with the 'radio station' concept it used to use.  It's not that showing videos isn't economically viable...it's that selling 'Newlywed' t-shirts is more profitable.

And at the risk of sounding like an old fart, I think part of the reason is that the videos are mostly totally derivative, now.  In the early 80s, you had stuff like Yes' "Owner of a Lonely Heart" and "Leave it", Thomas Dolby's "She Blinded me with Science", any video from Duran Duran's "Rio" album, Golden Earing's "Twilight Zone", Genesis "Illegal Alien", Mike and the Mechanics "All I need is a miracle", David Lee Roth's "California Girls", anything by Peter Gabriel and so on.  Many of the videos since the 80s come across as 'contractual obligation video #3'....usually where the director has figured out some new visual gimmick to use while the band plays what is, essentially, an uninspired concert clip.  Occasionally, this is interesting, like in the White Stripes' "Lego" video.  All too often, it's just bad...as in the case of most rap videos, which are usually the singer walking through a crowded room with girls in bikins hanging off of him in full bling mode (Outkast excepted, of course).


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## MaxKaladin (Aug 17, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Many of the videos since the 80s come across as 'contractual obligation video #3'....usually where the director has figured out some new visual gimmick to use while the band plays what is, essentially, an uninspired concert clip.



You still see some that remind you of the 80s though, like the "Stacy's Mom" video.  Then again, I'm part of the "Old Fart" brigade and I don't see many modern videos, except occasionally flipping past VH1 (which is where I saw the "Stacy's Mom" video).


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## S'mon (Aug 18, 2005)

MTV UK doesn't seem to do videos anymore, but there are 20 other music channels that do.  I tend to watch VH1 VH Classic & Skuzz for the '80s stuff.  No country & western channel on Sky though, which is annoying for my Dixie darling.


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