# Stranger Things 4 - Any good?



## Deset Gled (May 31, 2022)

(Please keep spoilers in tags.)

I loved Stranger Things when it first came out.  I thought Stranger Things 2 was good; not as great as the original, but still fun.  I could not watch Stranger Things 3.  After just a couple of episodes, I was surprised to discovered it was making me viscerally angry rather than giving me any form of pleasure.

I could not stand what they did to the characters.  So many of them received fast and unneeded de-evolution rather than growth, like Jim and Nancy.  Especially Eleven, who seemed to do a complete 180 from season 2. It may have just been me, but the 80s references seemed to change from interesting to forced.  I hated everything about the mall.  And the weird attempt at a plot with Russian codes hidden there in plain sight basically made the whole season arc feel like the show had changed from X-Files to Hardy Boys.

So, noting all that, is there any chance I could watch Season 4 and enjoy it?  I'm willing to give it an honest try, and can forgive a show for going through rough patches (for reference, I made it through all 15 seasons of Supernatural).  Am I okay to jump straight from 2 to 4, or do I need to watch the season ending (or some sort of Youtube summary) from Season 3 to understand what's happening?


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## Parmandur (May 31, 2022)

There is a recap at the start of the Season. It is a return to form, in my opinion. Season 3 was actually largely forgettable.


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## Nikosandros (May 31, 2022)

Parmandur said:


> There is a recap at the start of the Season. It is a return to form, in my opinion. Season 3 was actually largely forgettable.



I agree about season 3. I've watched 4 episodes so far of S4 and I'm quite liking it.


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## Ryujin (May 31, 2022)

Deset Gled said:


> (Please keep spoilers in tags.)
> 
> I loved Stranger Things when it first came out.  I thought Stranger Things 2 was good; not as great as the original, but still fun.  I could not watch Stranger Things 3.  After just a couple of episodes, I was surprised to discovered it was making me viscerally angry rather than giving me any form of pleasure.
> 
> ...



There's a certain degree of novelty to a show like that, when it first comes out. They have to up the bar each season, rather than being simply as good, or they lose that visceral hit. I think "Stranger Things" has suffered from perception, more than reality in this regard.

I'm quite enjoying season 4. I watched all of the currently released episodes over the course of two days and am looking forward to the second half.


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## payn (May 31, 2022)

They have been adding characters slowly but surely. So, some of your favorites might end up being disappointing in how little involvement they have. Otherwise, I do think it comes back to form generally that season 3 sort of left behind. Though, its really getting to be run of the mill at this point and needs to wrap up.


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## delericho (May 31, 2022)

Parmandur said:


> There is a recap at the start of the Season. It is a return to form, in my opinion. Season 3 was actually largely forgettable.



When I watched the recap, I found I'd largely forgotten season 3.

I'm only one episode in. Thus far it's fine, but I don't really have a good basis yet. However, my experience is that the fourth season is often when shows really start to dip, so I'm steadfastly refusing to get my hopes up.


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## JThursby (May 31, 2022)

Deset Gled said:


> I could not watch Stranger Things 3.  After just a couple of episodes, I was surprised to discovered it was making me viscerally angry rather than giving me any form of pleasure.



I had a similar experience.  Ever since about halfway through Season 2 the show has felt like it's stuck spinning it's wheels.


Deset Gled said:


> It may have just been me, but the 80s references seemed to change from interesting to forced.



This might be a generational thing.  I was born after the 80's, I just thought the period specific stuff in the show was kind of charming.  My parents were adolescents in the 80's, they thought a lot of the references were really contrived.


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## Deset Gled (May 31, 2022)

payn said:


> They have been adding characters slowly but surely. So, some of your favorites might end up being disappointing in how little involvement they have. Otherwise, I do think it comes back to form generally that season 3 sort of left behind. Though, its really getting to be run of the mill at this point and needs to wrap up.




My complaint isn't that my favorite characters didn't get screen time, it's that they destroyed the characters.  Jim, for example, went from a rough-around-the-edge-but-heart-of-gold character with legitimate layers about how he was viewed as an authority figure from different angles to... basically an abusive drunk parent with no personality like you would find in the bully's backstory in a Stephen King novel.  Nancy went from being an independent and intrepid investigator who uncovered interdimensional government secrets to... an intern at a local newspaper struggling under a misogynistic boss.  It was a major step back in character development for them.  I would rather have them sent away on a bus for a season and meet new characters than shred and recycle the old ones like that.


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## Deset Gled (May 31, 2022)

JThursby said:


> This might be a generational thing.  I was born after the 80's, I just thought the period specific stuff in the show was kind of charming.  My parents were adolescents in the 80's, they thought a lot of the references were really contrived.




A lot of it was, for me, what they were referencing.  Nerd culture like D&D and Radio Shack felt like it was catering to me.  Jazzercize at the mall feels like pandering to the masses.


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## payn (May 31, 2022)

Deset Gled said:


> A lot of it was, for me, what they were referencing.  Nerd culture like D&D and Radio Shack felt like it was catering to me.  Jazzercize at the mall feels like pandering to the masses.



This is a natural development since ST has hit pop culture. It needs to feed a lot of mouths.


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## RangerWickett (May 31, 2022)

I really adored season 3, especially the big fireworks fight at Starcourt.

I've been having a great time in season 4. I'm up to episode 5. I think episode 4 was probably the best TV experience I've had in a while (with a caveat that I'm not up to date with Better Call Saul).


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## payn (May 31, 2022)

RangerWickett said:


> I really adored season 3, especially the big fireworks fight at Starcourt.
> 
> I've been having a great time in season 4. I'm up to episode 5. I think episode 4 was probably the best TV experience I've had in a while (with a caveat that I'm not up to date with Better Call Saul).



Not likely to change then...


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## Parmandur (May 31, 2022)

delericho said:


> When I watched the recap, I found I'd largely forgotten season 3



Yeah, my thought exactly. Season 1 & 2 are deeply set in my memory. Season 3, total memory hole material. The first episode of Seaspn 4 is already better than all of Season 3, combined. And I enjoyed watching Season 3, it was just...lackluster.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan (May 31, 2022)

Parmandur said:


> Yeah, my thought exactly. Season 1 & 2 are deeply set in my memory. Season 3, total memory hole material. The first episode of Seaspn 4 is already better than all of Season 3, combined. And I enjoyed watching Season 3, it was just...lackluster.



Huh. That's kind of the reverse of what happened to me. I barely remember seasons 1 & 2, but completely remember season 3 (and I remember enjoying it, especially with the characters it added, like Max, Robin, and Alexei). It wasn't perfect . . . but I still found it enjoyable.


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## Parmandur (May 31, 2022)

AcererakTriple6 said:


> Huh. That's kind of the reverse of what happened to me. I barely remember seasons 1 & 2, but completely remember season 3 (and I remember enjoying it, especially with the characters it added, like Max, Robin, and Alexei). It wasn't perfect . . . but I still found it enjoyable.



Oh, I enjoyed it, at the time (Max was added in Season 2, BTW). But I loved Seasons 1 & 2, and more importantly remember them vividly.


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## Rabulias (Jun 1, 2022)

I really enjoyed Season 4 Part 1. I agree with others that Season 3 was fairly weak, and probably could have used another pass on tightening up the characters and pacing.

IMO, some of the events in Season 4 push the boundaries in how fast some things unfold, but viewing it with 1980's movie logic, I will give it a pass. I really like the expanded episode count: I think it's giving them more room to do better pacing.

I had two concerns going in, but I am satisfied after watching:


Spoiler



1) I thought COVID might have impacted the show badly, but I don't think it did. They split the cast into various groups, which might be an artifact of COVID, but that could also have been in the works all along (_e.g._, the Byers moving away, which was set up before the pandemic).

2) The trailer from April showing "Vecna" gave me (and others) pause that a humanoid villain did not fit well with the established mythology of the show. I am happy with the result. I have to say, while I was savvy enough to peg the orderly as 001 early on, I was oblivious to him being Creel's son and Vecna until just as they started to reveal it.


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## Sabathius42 (Jun 1, 2022)

Myself and all three off my coworkers have agreed that Season 4 might be/is our favorite.  None of the 4 of us said the same about 2 or 3 when they were new.

If the second half of S4 episodes are as good as the first half then Stranger Things is going to be going out on top as a show that stuck the landing.  Sit down Ozark...you had your chance.


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## Rabulias (Jun 1, 2022)

Sabathius42 said:


> Myself and all three off my coworkers have agreed that Season 4 might be/is our favorite.  None of the 4 of us said the same about 2 or 3 when they were new.
> 
> If the second half of S4 episodes are as good as the first half then Stranger Things is going to be going out on top as a show that stuck the landing.  Sit down Ozark...you had your chance.



I still think we are getting Season 5 sometime, and IIRC, the Duffer Brothers have indicated _that _will be the final season.


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 1, 2022)

I've now watched all of what they've released of it so far. Barring something really dumb in the last two episodes they're holding until July I like it a lot better than season 3.

It's got rather slow pacing, and key characters have been sidelined for most of the season. They now seem to be allowed to make episodes as long as they feel like and episode 7 is like an hour and 40 minutes long, and I'm not complaining about that (I've liked every episode), but it defitely is taking it's time. It feels like it's all building up for a big season 5 finale, so ultimately it feels like a season we can't really judge until we've seen the conclusion.

What I dislike about season 3 is that, whereas in the prior seasons the non-fantastical elements seemed grounded in (a heightened version of) 80s reality, in season 3 the Russian base, and even the mall seemed to be grounded only in 80s _movie_ reality. Yeah, that's totally what malls are like in 80s movies, but if mall culture like that actually existed it wasn't in small town Indiana. Add in some obnoxious character arcs and it is a clear low point for the series. Other characters get great development in that season so I won't write it off completely, but I like all the other seasons better.

Season 4 doesn't have anything that really bothers me other than finding some of the characters frustratingly underutilized. But I think this has more to do with having lots of characters at this point, and wanting to get some of them out of Hawkins.


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## wicked cool (Jun 1, 2022)

season 4 might be the the best television show right now


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## Stalker0 (Jun 4, 2022)

I'm on episode 5. My only real complaint so far...



Spoiler



.I get that Joyce drank Yuri's coffee....but Murray? Super paranoid Murray? I was so ready for Murray to pretend to be knocked out and get the jump on him, but no....super ultra paranoid Murray apparantely can't resist the total stranger's coffee....the guy he literally says "I don't like this guy".


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## Ryujin (Jun 4, 2022)

Stalker0 said:


> I'm on episode 5. My only real complaint so far...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Yeah, that was pretty weak, but I'll go with it to get them to Kamchatka (a place that I only remember about because of Risk).


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## Stalker0 (Jun 5, 2022)

So pretty darn cool, good first half to the season. Overall it had all the good stuff I've come to love ST for.



Spoiler



I can say that I was not the biggest fan of the One storyline, mainly because I think anytime horror movies go out of their way to explain the monster....it loses some of its power. The mind flayer and demogorgon, they are horrific evils....and that's all we need to know. I liked that Vecna was more "human" (it gave him a creepy characterization) but didn't like that they ultimately explained where he came from. The mystery is part of the horror, you can't understand it....its just evil.

That said, in terms of explaining the ST metaplot, this is a pretty darn solid explanation. I didn't need it, I didn't want it....but it does work.


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## RangerWickett (Jun 5, 2022)

I really appreciated how I expected reveal A and sorta guessed reveal B, but was still caught by reveal C tying them all together.



Spoiler



A is that the orderly was psychic. B is that the orderly might also be Vecna, but I didn't think that made sense because then what explained the first attack in the 50s. Revelation C is that the orderly was the kid from that family in the 50s grown up, and I did not guess that link.


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## Sabathius42 (Jun 5, 2022)

RangerWickett said:


> I really appreciated how I expected reveal A and sorta guessed reveal B, but was still caught by reveal C tying them all together.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I had the same A and B but not C result for myself.  I think the reason it's not obvious is that the person doesn't seem to be anywhere near old enough in their adult form.

By my math they should have been pushing 40 when we last saw them and the person playing them did not look anywhere near that.


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 5, 2022)

Sabathius42 said:


> By my math they should have been pushing 40 when we last saw them and the person playing them did not look anywhere near that.



I had similar problems, but the actor is actually in his early thirties, and remember it is a flashback to sometime before the late 1983 start of the first season.



Spoiler



Given the ambiguity of the date and the ambiguity of his age in 1959 I think it probably checks out on paper. If the kid is 12 in '59 he's still only 36 in 83, and the flashbacks might be a year or two before that. The problem is the actor read as at least 5 years younger than his actual age which was on the young side for the timeline anyway.


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## Levistus's_Leviathan (Jun 5, 2022)

Stalker0 said:


> So pretty darn cool, good first half to the season. Overall it had all the good stuff I've come to love ST for.
> 
> I can say that I was not the biggest fan of the One storyline, mainly because I think anytime horror movies go out of their way to explain the monster....it loses some of its power. The mind flayer and demogorgon, they are horrific evils....and that's all we need to know. I liked that Vecna was more "human" (it gave him a creepy characterization) but didn't like that they ultimately explained where he came from. The mystery is part of the horror, you can't understand it....its just evil.
> 
> That said, in terms of explaining the ST metaplot, this is a pretty darn solid explanation. I didn't need it, I didn't want it....but it does work.



I personally had the exact opposite opinion. The villains in Seasons 1 and 2 were pretty weak because they were just faceless monsters. The ones in 3 and 4, in my opinion, were a bit stronger because they were more personal (if you can call Billy a villain). Vecna is a good villain because his personality is plausible and has a greater effect on the main characters than just a standard horror movie monster.


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## werecorpse (Jun 5, 2022)

It’s good. 
They have so many characters now that they literally have 4 storylines going at the same time and some are much weaker than others. Some characters get to be clever or cool others get very weak arcs. 
But I enjoyed it overall.


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## Vael (Jun 5, 2022)

Didn't hate it. Liked Eddie, which I didn't expect. Unfortunately, the non-Hawkins plots were a little underwhelming to me. Glad to see Kate Bush get her deserved recognition.


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## Dausuul (Jun 5, 2022)

Stalker0 said:


> I'm on episode 5. My only real complaint so far....I get that--



While I completely agree with the remainder of your post (that bugged the hell out of me, too), would you mind wrapping that bit in spoiler tags?


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## Dausuul (Jun 5, 2022)

I liked it. Definitely a substantial improvement over season 3, and it did a very good job tying everything together, although it took its sweet time getting there.

I did feel that it sprawled a bit. With the characters scattered between Hawkins, California, Russia, and mysterious government bases, there weren't a lot of opportunities for the different storylines to intersect, and it got kind of frustrating. Given where Season 3 ended up, a certain amount of that was inevitable, but I would have liked them to reunite more characters sooner.

I'm really coming to appreciate Vecna as a villain, though. The mind flayer is totally alien, terrifying but remote; Vecna brings a more personal threat. All I want now is for his defeat to involve finding some detached part of him and using it to destroy him. Or else for him to leave behind a severed hand and eye when he dies. Because, you know, Vecna. 

And I also really like Eddie, the Hellfire Club DM--he comes across as a total jerk at first, but then he's given just enough depth to see a bit more where he's coming from. He's not a protagonist, and I don't think he should ever become one, but he makes a hell of an engaging supporting character.


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 6, 2022)

werecorpse said:


> It’s good.
> They have so many characters now that they literally have 4 storylines going at the same time and some are much weaker than others. Some characters get to be clever or cool others get very weak arcs.
> But I enjoyed it overall.



Yeah, one huge strength of the show is that they seem to always be able to get me invested in new major characters, so I don't mind so much if older ones are sidelined. They are going to have a tall order giving satisfying (enough) conclusions to everyone in the final season though.


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## Stalker0 (Jun 6, 2022)

Dausuul said:


> While I completely agree with the remainder of your post (that bugged the hell out of me, too), would you mind wrapping that bit in spoiler tags?



Done, apologies I had forgotten this was not a spoiler thread.


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## Mezuka (Jun 22, 2022)

Watched two episodes and half of the third. So far so good.



Spoiler: s



Roller skate in your face bitch! I recall chasing a guy on the ice with my hockey stick held up high and screaming like a mad man because he kept attacking me instead of playing hockey. It was on backyard ice ring. Never did hit him but he was scared of me afterwards. Problem solved. LOL


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## Ryujin (Jun 22, 2022)

Mezuka said:


> Watched two episodes and half of the third. So far so good.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Yeah, you don't want to see someone get hit with an ice skate. It ain't pretty.


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## Mezuka (Jun 22, 2022)

Ryujin said:


> Yeah, you don't want to see someone get hit with an ice skate. It ain't pretty.



We were playing with our snow boots on. No danger... that time.


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## Morrus (Jun 23, 2022)

So we have an answer to the engineer’s absence!

He wasn’t cast until partway through the filming of s1, so is absent from entire filming blocks (some of the ones he was in were filmed late but appeared in in early episodes). But no, it’s nothing do with his makeup taking too long.


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## Benjamin Olson (Jun 23, 2022)

Morrus said:


> So we have an answer to the engineer’s absence!
> 
> He wasn’t cast until partway through the filming of s1, so is absent from entire filming blocks (some of the ones he was in were filmed late but appeared in in early episodes). But no, it’s nothing do with his makeup taking too long.



I think you meant this for the Strange New Worlds thread. This is the Stranger Things thread. 

A lot of strange entertainment this Spring.


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## Morrus (Jun 23, 2022)

Benjamin Olson said:


> I think you meant this for the Strange New Worlds thread. This is the Stranger Things thread.
> 
> A lot of strange entertainment this Spring.



You’re right. I did!


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## Mezuka (Jun 24, 2022)

Finished watching the first part.

I won't continue. I'm not invested in any of the characters. Maybe it's the Covid break but I just can't reconnect and I could see the final reveal coming miles away. I can't help thinking this could tale could have been told with a much shorter run time. Too much tv time for what I'm getting out of it.


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## Stalker0 (Jul 2, 2022)

So finished part 2.



Spoiler



Pretty good, I did appreciate that for once, they mostly lost. I wonder if now we are finally going to get the government involved and go to work on this full on. I get that for a long time the kids had the issue of parents not believing them, but we have to be past that now. I did expect more episodes, yes they were longer but when they said part 2 I assume another "half", not another quarter. But ultimately pretty satisfied.

I will say...unless El now has some healing power in her kit (which she might since she did bring back Max), poor Max is just hosed. Her limbs weren't just broken, they were crushed....frankly she absolutely should be dead, that's not damage the body can normally survive, but again El did give her a psychic nudge. But realistically she is crippled for the rest of her life


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## Bedrockgames (Jul 2, 2022)

I found I enjoyed season 1, season 2 fell a little flat for me, but season 3 was a kind of nice change of things (and felt appropriate to moving deeper into the mid-80s). But as much as I enjoyed 3, for some reason my enthusiasm for starting season 4 hasn't materialized yet. I often watch shows late after they air though.


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## WayneLigon (Jul 2, 2022)

Loved every minute of it. 



Spoiler



Poor Will.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 3, 2022)

Spoiler



I wish they'd cut his eye out and hand off. Overall I really liked it, even if both the climax and the epilogue felt like they could have been edited to be just a little tighter. Cutting between so many characters is tough, but even moreso when we cut away from several of them being moments from death to have a minute-long villain monologue, El's attempt at talking Vecna down, Vecna's second villain monologue, and then Mike's pep talk. Still, it was fun and dramatic, and it made me into a Steve-and-Nancy shipper.


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## Alby87 (Jul 3, 2022)

Stalker0 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> But realistically she is crippled for the rest of her life





Spoiler



If she is still alive... Maybe she died offscreen in the hospital, when Mike feel the Upsidedown in his neck and then everybody saw the red thunders on the real world. Maybe that was just the opening of the portal thanks to the fourth victim.
OR the fourth victim may be someone else just killed offscreen, leaving Max in her hospital bed, if the storywriters feel the need to keep Max part of the show.

And, calling it, at the end of Season 5, we will see Dustin dungeon mastering with Eddies supply, I'm quiete sure.


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## Ryujin (Jul 3, 2022)

Alby87 said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Spoiler



Well El checked in Max's head at the end of the show and no one was home, so it seems that she was the final sacrifice. she _did_ die and only her body seems to have come back.


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## wicked cool (Jul 3, 2022)

Just finished season 4. Best sci-fi/fantasy show on television. There isn’t a close second. They have mastered everything. These episodes are as good as any movie. 
I bet this show alone has more viewers than any new star wars shows/marvel shows combined
There’s not many show when it ends that I check when will there be a new season. Might have to be the early days of GOT.


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## Argyle King (Jul 4, 2022)

Was that Conan's Atlantian Sword?


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## Mezuka (Jul 4, 2022)

My wife wanted to know how the season ends. I obliged. It was better than part one. The ending was very interesting.


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## Morrus (Jul 4, 2022)

Yep, that was good. Stranger Thing is back in good shape. Looking forward to the next season. Cthulhu next time?


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## Ryujin (Jul 4, 2022)

Argyle King said:


> Was that Conan's Atlantian Sword?



Yup, pretty sure that it was a replica of Conan's sword.


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## Argyle King (Jul 4, 2022)

Ryujin said:


> Yup, pretty sure that it was a replica of Conan's sword.
> 
> 
> View attachment 252645




Thought so

Looked like the one on the wall by my tv


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## Mezuka (Jul 4, 2022)

Nostalgia:


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## Janx (Jul 5, 2022)

Ryujin said:


> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Well El checked in Max's head at the end of the show and no one was home, so it seems that she was the final sacrifice. she _did_ die and only her body seems to have come back.





Spoiler



Yup. I suspect that all El did was leave an open vessel for something to control. So if Max is in season 5, she'll be someone else in disguise.

I'd also posit that something was playing that old timey song wayback in the past to try to save the family.  That indicates there is a 3rd party at work.

Also, how are people getting to and fro in town. There's a big X cut through it.


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## Nikosandros (Jul 5, 2022)

Ryujin said:


> Yup, pretty sure that it was a replica of Conan's sword.
> 
> 
> View attachment 252645



According to David Harbour, it was not a replica. It was the prop from the two Conan movies...


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## TheSword (Jul 5, 2022)

Great season. Best yet. I think it generally dialed the fear factor up by about 200%.

Love Kate Bush. Apparently the result of Ryder wearing a Kate Bush t-shirt on set all the time and listening to the music!

Love how it tied somewhat anachronistic elements from season 3 and integrated them really well. 

There really is nothing quite like this series.


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## Dausuul (Jul 6, 2022)

Very solid season.

I did feel that the "Deep Emotional Talk" scenes in episodes 8 and 9 were too many and too long. It isn't that I don't want to see emotional drama and character development--I absolutely do!--but having _everybody_ display their character development in the form of long monologues gets old real fast. I also think the "Hopper in Russia" storyline should have been scaled way back; much of it felt like filler.

But those are minor quibbles, which cast barely a shadow on the sight of a long-haired, leather-jacketed social outcast battling a horde of demon stirges with a homemade spear and an electric guitar, in a landscape straight out of a heavy metal album cover. This entire show is one long paean to the pop culture of my childhood.


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## Older Beholder (Jul 6, 2022)

That was very good, as someone that grew up listening to metal and playing D&D in a small town in the 80's, the satanic panic element was pretty much spot on.

Is it just me or does the guy playing Eddie have some serious Robert Downey Jr vibes?


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## Mezuka (Jul 6, 2022)

So apparently the door Nancy is removing planks from is a push door. She could have just stepped over the last pieces of wood and left the room. She had Disadvantage on her perception check because Vecna was there.

I didn't even notice. Did you?


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## Mezuka (Jul 6, 2022)

Who here thinks Hopper acquired some kind of super resistance to pain because of his experience with chemicals in Irak? The punishment he can take is phenomenal.


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## Ryujin (Jul 6, 2022)

Mezuka said:


> So apparently the door Nancy is removing planks from is a push door. She could have just stepped over the last pieces of wood and left the room. She had Disadvantage on her perception check because Vecna was there.
> 
> I didn't even notice. Did you?



Yup, was head-desking pretty heavily over that one, so laughed hard and long when the meme surfaced.


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## Dausuul (Jul 6, 2022)

Mezuka said:


> Who here thinks Hopper acquired some kind of super resistance to pain because of his experience with chemicals in Irak? The punishment he can take is phenomenal.



Vietnam, not Iraq; but yes, I agree. Dude clearly put all his ability increases into Constitution.


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## Umbran (Jul 13, 2022)

I think that last half hour to 45 minutes could have been tightened up a lot, but a good season.


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## jerryrice4949 (Jul 13, 2022)

RangerWickett said:


> I really adored season 3, especially the big fireworks fight at Starcourt.
> 
> I've been having a great time in season 4. I'm up to episode 5. I think episode 4 was probably the best TV experience I've had in a while (with a caveat that I'm not up to date with Better Call Saul).



Me too.  Loved the Starcourt mall.  The nailed the mall nostalgia;  it was almost exactly like the mall near me that opened in the 80s.  

I liked season 3 better than four.  Don’t get me wrong I still like season 4 but they have too many locations and the whole Hopper storyline does not really seem to move the plot forward.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 13, 2022)

Naturally you'll run into problems when you write a series a year at a time. The showrunners allegedly intended the series to be more of an anthology, rather than following the same characters every season. If they _had_ planned for Vecna to be the big bad way back in season 1, they could have set things up for the reveal and made sure that when they had stuff happened, it would pay off.

Like, if you're going to involve Russia in season 3, you'd imagine it would matter for the climax, right? Going from Hawkins to California and Russia makes for a less tight story, though of course reality isn't neat and tidy.


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## billd91 (Jul 13, 2022)

My wife pointed out how much Robin's love interest, Vicki, is channeling Molly Ringwald in one of the scenes. I told her "Well, they were living in the 80s".... which got me here:


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## Zardnaar (Jul 14, 2022)

Fun season best since season 1.


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## embee (Jul 14, 2022)

Just finished watching Season 4.

First of all, talk about a loving tribute to 80's slasher horror... Strong Nightmare On Elm Street 4: Dream Warriors vibes. Not a ripoff but a definite homage. And I was definitely here for it.

Storywise, it was all lore, all the time and, again, that's what I'm talking about.

What worked for me: the "Goonies never say die" vibe of the main plot. When Eddie and Dustin connected in the final episode, that's Stranger Things at its finest.

What didn't work for me: The USSR B plot. It started silly and proceeded to ridiculous and then culminated in ridonkulous. Hopper with a Conan sword at the end is exactly what Teen Titans GO! were mocking in "Nostalgia Is Not A Substitute For An Actual Story."

Soundtrack was fairly off-the-hook. Philip Glass' "Prophecies" is starting to become a musical trope, right up there with Barber's "Adagio For Strings." However, they still know how to tug heartstrings just right, even with the anachronistic use of Moby.

Overall, I liked that they really focused on (a) a definite and coherent plot and (b) relationships. Whether it was the Eddie/Dustin dynamic or Steve and Nancy just charming the pants off me in the Winnebago, it's a nice return to form.


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## Stalker0 (Jul 15, 2022)

embee said:


> What didn't work for me: The USSR B plot. It started silly and proceeded to ridiculous and then culminated in ridonkulous. Hopper with a Conan sword at the end is exactly what Teen Titans GO! were mocking in "Nostalgia Is Not A Substitute For An Actual Story."



Yeah I think it went a bit off the rails after Hooper escaped and then was caught and brought back. Up to that point I was pretty invested, Hooper was having a rough go, Joyce and Murray got to go save him....I'm on board.

Then....back to the prison, and I think it just lost all the momentum at that point.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jul 19, 2022)

I still have to watch the final episode, and that could of course turn everything around, but so far I enjoyed this season a lot.
The new characters work pretty well. Even though the whole Russia plot so far lacked believability.
I dislike that the characters are seperated so much, but every reunion will feel so much sweeter that way, I think.
Of course, there is a lot of "furtuitous timing of events" as well that stretches credibility in ways otherworldly dimensions of horror don't.


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## payn (Jul 19, 2022)

One thing that was immediately apparent to me, and then immediately forgotten, was that Dusty's girlfriend and older sister were in the van one min, and then just gone the next. Did I miss something?


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## BookTenTiger (Jul 19, 2022)

Overall I thought the season was alright. I actually liked Season 3 better, the mall setting was a lot of fun.

What worked for me: how scary it was. I actually had to cover my eyes during the death scenes. I always enjoy the Upside Down, and I like that more characters got to go there. I always enjoy how this show is willing to let its characters play around and figure out the rules of the supernatural. The focus on relationships is great and really invests me in the show.

What didn't work for me: the pacing! One minute the show would be cutting quickly between three or four different storylines, the next it would spend a long time with a character just... walking across a room, or readying a weapon. The storyline was a little too scattered, though I liked how all the characters came together in their efforts towards the end.

But the biggest flaw for me was:



Spoiler



Their plan didn't work. I get that they're saving Vecna for Season 5 or whatever, but that was a lot of watching time to invest in a plan that failed. Especially since everyone worked so hard and sacrificed so much! It really felt like a DM who had a villain they really loved, so even when the characters were smart and lucky, they refused to let the villain die. It left a sour taste in my mouth.



Overall I enjoyed watching it, but we were considering canceling Netflix, and this season wasn't good enough for me to hold onto the streaming service for a future Season 5


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## Rabulias (Jul 19, 2022)

payn said:


> One thing that was immediately apparent to me, and then immediately forgotten, was that Dusty's girlfriend and older sister were in the van one min, and then just gone the next. Did I miss something?



After Suzie's computer wizardry, they exited to house to find Eden (Suzie's sister) in the van making out with Argyle, but the girls did not leave with them.


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## billd91 (Jul 20, 2022)

BookTenTiger said:


> But the biggest flaw for me was:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Answer to the spoiler 


Spoiler



But, fundamentally, they *weren't* lucky. Their luck was hosed by outside actors - the (psycho) army guys who thought Eleven was the threat to Hawkins and then Jason "I'm gonna grow up into a smarmy televangelist" Carver at the house. That's not the characters being lucky - that's the characters being *un*lucky. The lucky part is they did as much as they did while (mostly) surviving. This is The Empire Strikes Back/Goblet of Fire moment for the Stranger Things cast.


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## BookTenTiger (Jul 20, 2022)

billd91 said:


> Answer to the spoiler
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



I guess it just was not successfully sold to me as such, especially because



Spoiler



their plan did actually work, despite setbacks. They tracked Vecna, surprised him, set him on fire multiple times... And then he just somehow survived and got away. No explanation. It wasn't set up by the show that he could survive such a thing (in fact, the show repeated how much creatures of the other world hate fire), he just vanished. It felt like a cheap victory by the villain. Again, like a DM who is too attached to their BBEG. For me, if they wanted him to win, I'd have preferred there be a reason shown in the story. Maybe they burn off all the tentacles but because he's partially human that part survives. Or his survival reveals something new about the Upside Down. Instead he just... got away.


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