# The "Torment a Historian" movie playlist thread



## Orius (Sep 26, 2010)

Just to get some life in here, let's post a list of movies that are _supposed_ to be historical, but get so much wrong a historian would have a stroke.  No fantasy or anything set in the real world that requires A Wizard Did It, these should all be movies that are supposed to take place sometime in the past of the real world.  Stick with inaccuracy, out-of-place political correctness, and just plain anachronism.

We'll start off with 10,000 B.C.  Let's see, Ice Age animals alongside pyramids.  Yup, our historian should be feeling some high blood pressure right about now.  

Let's advance the timeline to The Scorpion King.  It depicts no known period of antiquity, but what the hell, it's fun.

Since we're about tormenting the historian here, let's take a break from some fun romps and move onto a movie that takes itself more seriously -- King Arthur.  Yup, bills itself as historically accurate, but the subject matter is nearly unrecognizable.

And finally, before I turn the thread over to the other regulars, A Knight's Tale _must_ be mentioned.  After all, what could our historian love more than a bunch of peasants singing "We Will Rock You" at a 14th century jousting match?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 26, 2010)

I'll see your 10,000 B.C and raise you to One Million Years B.C.
Fur bikinis
Normal- no- HOT humans
Humans vs dinosaurs

And for having a black Viking, horned helms, modern haircuts, non-Native American Native Americans, I add The Norseman.


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## Relique du Madde (Sep 26, 2010)

300 assuming that there was no unreliable narrator.

I mean seriously, 50 foot tall elephants, 12 foot tall Persians, scores of mutants, and no mention of the 5000- 8000 of additional Greek troops that fought along side the Spartans?*




*Though it should be noted that 1000 to 1500 Greeks fought to their deaths at the last day of battle.


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## Joker (Sep 26, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> 300 assuming that there was no unreliable narrator.
> 
> I mean seriously, 50 foot tall elephants, 12 foot tall Persians, scores of mutants, and no mention of the 5000- 8000 of additional Greek troops that fought along side the Spartans?*
> 
> ...




It should also be noted that the movie 300 like the graphic novel it was based on has never made any claim to being historically accurate unlike the aforementioned King Arthur.

300 is more like a very dramatized and stylized retelling of an old inspiring battle.  Just like in a folktale there is some embellishment.


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## Joker (Sep 26, 2010)

Pearl Harbor made some stuff up.

Gladiator took some liberties with characters and events.

While maybe not the most insulting use of dramatic license, the movie U-571 depicting Americans capturing the Enigma machine instead of the British is pretty bad.

Then there's the Patriot, Braveheart, JFK, Marie Antoinette and Celine Dion music during the time of the Titanic?  I don't think so.

Also, The Life of Brian is so rife with inaccuracies I have a feeling the makers weren't taking the subject matter seriously.

I don't particularly have a problem with filmmakers making stuff up to dramatize a story as long as it works.  Unless the movie is directed towards children like Pocahontas.  That sort of Mighty Whitey cinema makes me wanna push over an old lady.


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## Diamond Cross (Sep 26, 2010)

There really is no such thing as a completely accurate movie set in a historical era since all directors change some things.


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## Joker (Sep 26, 2010)

Diamond Cross said:


> There really is no such thing as a completely accurate movie set in a historical era since all directors change some things.




True, but there's a difference with taking a few liberties for dramatic purposes and showing the Macedonian cavalry riding velociraptors while trying to outflank the Persian Droid Army during the Battle of the Granicus and saying 'I swear to God, true story'.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 26, 2010)

Joker said:


> True, but there's a difference with taking a few liberties for dramatic purposes and showing the Macedonian cavalry riding velociraptors while trying to outflank the Persian Droid Army during the Battle of the Granicus and saying 'I swear to God, true story'.




"And our Star Destroyers will blot out the sun!!!"

"Then we shall fight in the shade...with our energy-lances!!!"


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 26, 2010)

Just a thought- we're off to a good start: we should use this thread to make a sci/fant treatment of some historical account of a famous war and pitch the script to Uwe Boll.


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## Joker (Sep 26, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Just a thought- we're off to a good start: we should use this thread to make a sci/fant treatment of some historical account of a famous war and pitch the script to Uwe Boll.




I think you're on to something.  His last film, Rampage, wasn't half bad.

Warner Brothers proudly presents:  

300 Spartan Revenants

"During the First World War, Nazi archeologists uncover the resting place of the 300 Spartan soldiers and their King Alexander the Great who gave their lives in defense of their land.  Through Nazi transmorgification technology they are brought back to life.  
Madness?  THIS.  IS.  DEUTSCHLAND!"

Your turn.


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## Relique du Madde (Sep 26, 2010)

Hmmm...  Zombie Spartans vs Zombie Visigoths vs Zombie Alexander the Great vs Zombie Vikings.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 27, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> Hmmm...  Zombie Spartans vs Zombie Visigoths vs Zombie Alexander the Great vs Zombie Vikings.




With soundtrack by The Zombies.


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## Orius (Sep 27, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> 300 assuming that there was no unreliable narrator.




There's a good case for 300, though it's hard to tell how much of that movie is supposed to be actual events and how much of it is Dilios pulling stuff out of his ass.  



Diamond Cross said:


> There really is no such thing as a completely accurate movie set in a historical era since all directors change some things.




Yes, but this is less about small dramatical changes or minor inaccuracies or anachronisms that only someone with a degree in history is going to notice.  This is about stuff blatant enough for Joe Blow who slept through all his history classes in school to notice.


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## Dragonwriter (Sep 27, 2010)

Joker said:


> Also, The Life of Brian is so rife with inaccuracies I have a feeling the makers weren't taking the subject matter seriously.




I hope this is sarcasm or humor... Because if you take Monty Python seriously, there is no hope for you. 

But I can't think of any movies to add to the list, though I will agree with most of the ones proposed/mentioned/mocked so far.

Except the Uwe Boll idea. I know we'd need a low-cost director, but we can do better... And yet, I am drawing a blank.


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## Morkul (Sep 27, 2010)

one of my favorite films: Amadeus.  Tom Hulce's portrayal of Mozart is considered inaccurate.  makes me laugh though.  also, Salieri knocking him off is purely speculative...

Michael Collins also strays from historical fact.  whats-her-face being in it doesnt help either...


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## Umbran (Sep 27, 2010)

Orius said:


> ... let's take a break from some fun romps and move onto a movie that takes itself more seriously -- King Arthur.  Yup, bills itself as historically accurate, but the subject matter is nearly unrecognizable.




Yes, well, given the irony of claiming historical accuracy when the titular character did not exist in history, it seems to me that any disappointment is purely the viewer's fault.


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## Relique du Madde (Sep 27, 2010)

Umbran said:


> Yes, well, given the irony of claiming historical accuracy when the titular character did not exist in history, it seems to me that any disappointment is purely the viewer's fault.




Technically speaking some historians think that King Arthur was based on one if not several people who lived up until the 6th century..  However, the Holy Grail was entirely fictionalized and meant to represent the conversion of the pagan lands to Christianity.


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## Umbran (Sep 28, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> Technically speaking some historians think that King Arthur was based on one if not several people who lived up until the 6th century..




Depends on which version you read - he may also include some folks after the 6th century as well.  When the guy may be built out of a dozen others across half a millennium or more, you can't get historical accuracy in one presentation.



> However, the Holy Grail was entirely fictionalized and meant to represent the conversion of the pagan lands to Christianity.




The grail isn't so simple - like Arthur himself, it is an amalgam of legends, with some new material added.  It has roots back into pre-Christian Celtic mythology.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 28, 2010)

Holy Grail?

[FRONCH]_I already got one!!!!_[/FRONCH]


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Sep 28, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Holy Grail?
> 
> [FRONCH]_I already got one!!!!_[/FRONCH]



"What's a French castle doing in England?"
"Mind yoor own beezness!"


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## Relique du Madde (Sep 28, 2010)

Don't make me toss a holy hand grenade at you..


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## Orius (Sep 28, 2010)

Umbran said:


> Yes, well, given the irony of claiming historical accuracy when the titular character did not exist in history, it seems to me that any disappointment is purely the viewer's fault.




Yes, I am aware that anything Arthurian blurs the line between history and myth.  That's why say, Excalibur did not make the cut, it's too loaded down with magic and such to count on this list even though the knights are schlepping around in full armor nearly a millenium before it existed.  However, given King Arthur's grandiose claims about being as historical as possible, it deserves a place on this list.


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## Joker (Sep 28, 2010)

Umbran said:


> Yes, well, given the irony of claiming historical accuracy when the titular character did not exist in history, it seems to me that any disappointment is purely the viewer's fault.




Not entirely the viewers fault.  The tagline is "The true story behind the legend" and "The producers of the film claim to present a historically accurate version of the Arthurian legends, supposedly inspired by new archaeological findings."

So the makers create a character and claim that he is the man the legend is based on and this film is a true retelling of his life and a realistic portrayal of the legend.

This and stating that historians now agree that Arthur was a real person means that you can't blame the viewer for not being skeptical enough.

P.S.  Dragonwriter, I don't write serious .


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## Wolf72 (Sep 28, 2010)

First Knight ... cringe every time it's on.


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## Joker (Sep 28, 2010)

Wolf72 said:


> First Knight ... cringe every time it's on.




I remember the female lead saying in an interview:  "Well, how do we know that people in the Middle Ages weren't all hip and down with it?"

Indeed Shannyn Sossamon, how do we know indeed.


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## Piratecat (Sep 28, 2010)

Joker said:


> True, but there's a difference with taking a few liberties for dramatic purposes and showing the Macedonian cavalry riding velociraptors while trying to outflank the Persian Droid Army during the Battle of the Granicus and saying 'I swear to God, true story'.



I'd see this movie. Oh, yes.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 28, 2010)

> Persian Droid Army




Droids, eh?  So THAT's why they're called The Immortals!


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## Relique du Madde (Sep 28, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Droids, eh?  So THAT's why they're called The Immortals!




You sure they weren't Highlanderesque Immortals?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 29, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Droids, eh?  So THAT's why they're called The Immortals!




Aaaaaaand apparently, they'll be rolling off the assembly line in a decade or so:

Blastr Stories Details


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## Croesus (Sep 29, 2010)

Spartacus (Kirk Douglas) is nothing like what little we know of that time (see *The Spartacus War* by Barry Strauss).

Zulu (Michael Caine) has almost no connection with the actual battle. They even wrote their own lyrics to Men of Harlech (the song they sing when the Zulu's are bashing their spears against their shields). See *Like Wolves on the Fold* by Mike Snook.

And don't even get me started on the old WW2 movie "Battle of the Bulge" with Henry Fonda and Robert Ryan.  At least the first two were good movies, if bad history. Battle of the Bulge was dreck in both senses.

I hate to say it, but it seems that the best historical stuff is on TV. They don't get everything right, but they tend to do a lot better than the movies.


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## Croesus (Sep 29, 2010)

*Men of Harlech*
(movie Zulu version)

Men of Harlech stop your dreaming
Can't you see their spear points gleaming
See their warrior pennants streaming
To this battlefield
Men of Harlech stand ye steady
It cannot be ever said ye
For the battle were not ready
Welshmen never yield
From the hills rebounding
Let this song be sounding
Summon all at Cambria's call
The mighty force surrounding
Men of Harlech on to glory
This will ever be your story
Keep these burning words before ye
Welshmen will not yield

(not historically accurate, but a great version)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 2, 2010)

Wolf72 said:


> First Knight ... cringe every time it's on.




Every time_ First Knight_ airs, an Angel kicks a puppy...AND Forrest Whitaker wears a baby seal Speedo.


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## Ahzad (Oct 2, 2010)

Higgins boats in Robin Hood? Seriously Ridley Scott, higgins boats?

didn't see the movie b/c of that alone, it made my brain hurt to much.


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## Viking Bastard (Oct 2, 2010)

I love A Knight's Tale. It's clearly not meant to be taken as historically accurate. Crass historical inaccuracy only bugs me when movies sell themselves as being accurate.


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## Joker (Oct 2, 2010)

Joker said:


> True, but there's a difference with taking a few liberties for dramatic purposes and showing the Macedonian cavalry riding velociraptors while trying to outflank the Persian Droid Army during the Battle of the Granicus and saying 'I swear to God, true story'.




In the Battle of the Granicus they had to cross a river.  So...Higgens boats.


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## Dragonwriter (Oct 3, 2010)

Okay, I've got one to add now.

Robin Hood: Prince of Thieves (and others, I'm sure) - Robin doesn't speak with a British accent. And it's rather glaringly obvious. I find it hard to believe I didn't think of this before. 

And numerous other movies (not just Robin Hood ones) are guilty of this, First Knight among them.



Joker said:


> P.S.  Dragonwriter, I don't write serious .




Just checking.


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## RangerWickett (Oct 3, 2010)

Consider how much speech patterns have changed in America in the past 70 years (listen to the accents of Humphrey Bogart, or Franklin Roosevelt). Who's to say that a certain portion of the British Isles had accents back in Robin Hood's day that sound very similar to modern American?

In fact, I ran a d20 modern game where one PC was a displaced knight from King Arthur's court, and he insisted that everyone there sounded like they were from modern Florida. (And that Camelot was regularly beset by vampires.)


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## Dragonwriter (Oct 3, 2010)

RangerWickett said:


> Consider how much speech patterns have changed in America in the past 70 years (listen to the accents of Humphrey Bogart, or Franklin Roosevelt). Who's to say that a certain portion of the British Isles had accents back in Robin Hood's day that sound very similar to modern American?




While possible, how does his own father have a thoroughly British accent, while Robin doesn't?

I get the point you are making, but this _is_ a semi-humorous thread concerning "historical" movies and their mistakes. This particular bit was such a big deal, it even got a mention in Robin Hood: Men In Tights!


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 3, 2010)

Easily.  Robin hood lost his accent when he fought in the crusades as a result of Saladin's men taking it from Robin during his captivity.

This data transmission was sent via cybernetic implant.


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## Dioltach (Oct 3, 2010)

I switched off my DVD of _Timeline_ when the "English" nobles (speaking with posh English accents) took a modern Frenchman prisoner, while completely ignoring the Scotsman in the party. Or something like that, it's been a while since I attempted to watch it.


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## nedjer (Oct 3, 2010)

Half of the mystique surrounding Arthur seems to come from his mythical roots. It does seem safe to say that whatever/ whoever the original, much of the 'movie Arthur' draws on ideas/ themes introduced after Gutenburg got printing.

Tennyson's Morte d'Arthur and Idylls of the Kings are probably the greatest influence, because it was the first really widely distributed version and hooked into the Victorian's obsession with an idealised antiquity. Donnelly's Atlantis, pre-Raphaelite art, Tennyson, etc . . . all fed a hugely patronising desire to justify imperialism, (and empire-building), as righteous, 'godly' and clearly necessary for producing the 'golden eras' delivered by benign monarchies. Kind of monarchies as 'points of light'.

Anyway, to get to the point, the University of Rochester's Camelot Project has a great site about all things Arthurian, HERE. There's another Camelot Project site out there; populated by material from spangleheads like David Icke - possibly best avoided, though that won't be necessary for long, as they're apparently accurately predicting the end of the world shortly


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## Morrus (Oct 3, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> Easily. Robin hood lost his accent when he fought in the crusades as a result of Saladin's men taking it from Robin during his captivity.




What, a person who has his "British Accent" removed then sounds like an American?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 3, 2010)

It's called Foreign Accent Syndrome, and since it can be triggered by head trauma, heroic types are probably more likely to have it...though explaining how one gets an accent from a culture that hasn't arisen yet is a bit trickier.

Perhaps a hot tub or a police box are involved?


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## jonesy (Oct 3, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Perhaps a hot tub or a police box are involved?



Hot tub? Tell me more, kind sir.


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## drothgery (Oct 3, 2010)

Morrus said:


> What, a person who has his "British Accent" removed then sounds like an American?




If you speak English without an accent, you sound like you're from the suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio. Everyone knows this .


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## Morrus (Oct 3, 2010)

drothgery said:


> If you speak English without an accent, you sound like you're from the suburbs of Cleveland, Ohio. Everyone knows this .




Don't be silly.  If you speak English without an accent, you sound exactly like me!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 3, 2010)

jonesy said:


> Hot tub? Tell me more, kind sir.




Hop in a Hot Tub Time Machine, go to the _future_, get a head injury that causes Foreign Accent Syndrome, then return to your normal adventuring life.


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## Dragonwriter (Oct 3, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Hop in a Hot Tub Time Machine, go to the _future_, get a head injury that causes Foreign Accent Syndrome, then return to your normal adventuring life.




And so we are back to this:



Dannyalcatraz said:


> Just a thought- we're off to a good start: we should use this thread to make a sci/fant treatment of some historical account of a famous war and pitch the script to Uwe Boll.




With a cross of Hot Tub Time Machine and Robin Hood... Wow.



Dannyalcatraz said:


> It's called Foreign Accent Syndrome, and since it can be triggered by head trauma, heroic types are probably more likely to have it...though explaining how one gets an accent from a culture that hasn't arisen yet is a bi trickier.




Again, possible, but there is no mention of a head injury in the movie. And such a syndrome is not likely to be known to the average person watching the movie... 



Relique du Madde said:


> Easily.  Robin hood lost his accent when he fought in the crusades *as a result of Saladin's men taking it from Robin* during his captivity.





Why didn't they take it from his buddy, too? Peter, the boyhood friend... Or were they all full up on their foreign accent collection?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 3, 2010)

> Again, possible, but there is no mention of a head injury in the movie.




They didn't need to- it happened in childhood, before the events of the film.

Or afterwards, technically, if a Hot Tub Time Machine is involved.

Hey, interesting idea:  Robin Hood gets in a Hot Tub Time Machine, sees any American Robin Hood movie, gets drunk, hits head, develops FAS (losing his accent) and when he returns, takes up the cause of stealing from the rich to give to the poor!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 3, 2010)

Just to allay any fears such as Dragonwriter may be harboring at this point: while I do have the skills to force any kinds of plot points together into a storyline as well as anyone in Hollywood, my self-respect and love of the underlying stories that Hollywood routinely screws up keeps me from doing so.








...for now.


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## SKyOdin (Oct 3, 2010)

King Arthur was a terrible movie from the standpoint of historical accuracy, regardless of whether you think Arthur was an actual historical figure or not. Whoever wrote that movie clearly knew nothing about the actual period he was writing about. One of the most egregious examples is that the writer for some reason thought that the Pope and Bishops controlled the Roman Empire, when it wasn't until centuries later that the Papacy established significant political authority in Europe.

Gladiator was particularly egregious as well. Just about all of the politics and characters in that movie are completely made up. On top of that, the movie has scenes of characters reading _printed, color leaflets_.

In college, I had a History professor who decided to turn her Early Middle Ages history class into a movie class. So we ended up spending the entire quarter watching movies like Ben Hur, The 300 Spartans (1962 movie), Gladiator, King Arthur, Braveheart, Sparticus, the 13th Warrior and more and then writing essays on their historical accuracy. It was both fun and very painful. Hollywood is very, very bad at historical accuracy. Too bad we didn't have time to fit in Monty Python and the Holy Grail like the professor originally intended. She claimed it was the most historically accurate of the bunch (seeing as how the Monty Python guys are actually historians). I still need to watch that movie.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 4, 2010)

> I still need to watch that movie.




This is one of the scariest sentences in this entire thread.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 4, 2010)

Dragonwriter said:


> Why didn't they take it from his buddy, too? Peter, the boyhood friend... Or were they all full up on their foreign accent collection?



They never got the chance to since the magic component to the "Accent Stripping Ritual" is a _hand that sins_.


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## MarkB (Oct 4, 2010)

Morrus said:


> What, a person who has his "British Accent" removed then sounds like an American?




No, that was part of the torture too.

"Now, renounce your heresy, or we'll make you sound like Woody Allen!"


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

I _*just*_ got points for some of the posts in this thread, so,,.

I have to say that there are some directors who could definitely screw up a “historically based” film up at least as well as Uwe Boll, like:

M. Night Shaymalan.  I’m sure his take on something like, ohhhhhh, the Titanic disaster would involve a plot twist of having the iceberg being repositioned by Atlanteans.

Maybe Anthony Ferrante could place it in a version of his “Sharknadoverse”, but with telekinetic sharks.

1776?  Give it to J.J. Abrams and watch the lens flares off of the Liberty Bell, bayonets, Ben Franklin’s glasses, tricorner hats and quill pens.  Perhaps Old Ironsides gets created at the end of the film as a Transformer, setting up a sequel.


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## Ryujin (Apr 16, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I _*just*_ got points for some of the posts in this thread, so,,.
> 
> I have to say that there are some directors who could definitely screw up a “historically based” film up at least as well as Uwe Boll, like:
> 
> ...



I feel like all of these movies may already have been made by the production company The Asylum.


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## delericho (Apr 16, 2021)

Lots of good suggestions in this thread, but surely the worst offender must be "2001: A Space Odyssey"? Honestly, I don't even know where to start with that one...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> I feel like all of these movies may already have been made by the production company The Asylum.



Enlightenment, please!


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## Zardnaar (Apr 16, 2021)

I was thinking the TV show Vikings but compared to some movies it's not that bad. 

 Doesn't break immersion at least for the casual viewer. 

 Season 2 they knew the UK was there and they transposed a viking funeral from a different time and place to Scandinavia (via Russia and an Arabic account).


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## Undrave (Apr 16, 2021)

Any Asterix Movie?


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## Ryujin (Apr 16, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Enlightenment, please!



The Asylum is a West Coast production company that is known for such gems as "Battle Star Wars", "Atlantic Rim", and "Clown." They specialize in knock-offs of big budget movies, that are about to be released, and just plain schlock.

Oh, and the "Sharknado" series of movies.



			http://www.theasylum.cc/


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## Richards (Apr 16, 2021)

I nominate "The Flintstones."  

Johnathan


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## billd91 (Apr 16, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> 1776?  Give it to J.J. Abrams and watch the lens flares off of the Liberty Bell, bayonets, Ben Franklin’s glasses, tricorner hats and quill pens.  Perhaps Old Ironsides gets created at the end of the film as a Transformer, setting up a sequel.



And you can bet that with JJ Abrams's tendency to play loose with space and time issues, you can bet that King George III would have been watching events unfold via a telescope in England.


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## Ryujin (Apr 16, 2021)

"Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter"

"Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"


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## Ryujin (Apr 16, 2021)

billd91 said:


> And you can bet that with JJ Abrams's tendency to play loose with space and time issues, you can bet that King George III would have been watching events unfold via a telescope in England.
> View attachment 135648



Or would just know, 2 days after an incident in America, exactly what transpired.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> Or would just know, 2 days after an incident in America, exactly what transpired.



Because texting.  Duh!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter"
> 
> "Pride and Prejudice and Zombies"



I was thinking about those, and trying to see if there is a line between them and how the others mentioned would handle things.  I’m not sure I can.  I mean, none of them approaches the genius of Ed Wood.

But then I remembered Tommy Wiseau,


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## Ryujin (Apr 16, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I was thinking about those, and trying to see if there is a line between them and how the others mentioned would handle things.  I’m not sure I can.  I mean, none of them approaches the genius of Ed Wood.
> 
> But then I remembered Tommy Wiseau,



Further comment re: The Asylum. When "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" was slated for release, they rushed out "Abraham Lincoln vs The Zombies."









						Abraham Lincoln vs. Zombies - Wikipedia
					






					en.wikipedia.org


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> Further comment re: The Asylum. When "Abraham Lincoln: Vampire Hunter" was slated for release, they rushed out "Abraham Lincoln vs The Zombies."
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I’m sensing the potential for this to become its own subgenre.
“Abraham Lincoln: Werewolf Slayer”
“Abraham Lincoln: Exorcist”
“Abraham Lincoln Vs Kaiju”
“Abraham Lincoln: Liberator of Mars”
“Abraham Lincoln: Robot Hunter”
“Abraham Lincoln Vs Alien Vs Predator”

Clearly, he’s a manifestation of The Eternal Champion, a cloned heroic archetype, or a hero across parallel dimensions.* Or some such.






* not mutually exclusive.


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## Orius (Apr 16, 2021)

I was looking of some of my old threads last night and dropped some likes here since this thread predates that system.  I was wondering who rezzed this thread and why just a few hours later.  It felt a little weird.



Ryujin said:


> The Asylum is a West Coast production company that is known for such gems as "Battle Star Wars", "Atlantic Rim", and "Clown." They specialize in knock-offs of big budget movies, that are about to be released, and just plain schlock.
> 
> Oh, and the "Sharknado" series of movies.
> 
> ...



Yeah I've seen some of The Asylum's...um...films.

One was a horrible ripoff of The Da Vanci Code and National Treasure, and those are cheese to begin with.  I'm watching as these so-called archeologists handle a bunch of priceless historical artifacts in the roughest and most careless manner possible.  The plot involves some map on the Shroud of Turin that leads to some treasure buried in the middle of nowhere in Afganistan or something, and somehow Leonardo da Vinci was involved.  The most ridiculous part of the film has the characters rolling up the Shroud in a ball after they steal it and then shoving it into a backpack.  And the Shroud wasn't stored in anything that looks like a medieval church but some modren church or community center or something somewhere on SoCal.   The whole thing was utterly ridiculous. It definitely ranks on the list of worst movies I've ever seen.  

You want a bad movie night?  Asylum's crap will probably do.


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## RangerWickett (Apr 16, 2021)

Joker said:


> Also, The Life of Brian is so rife with inaccuracies I have a feeling the makers weren't taking the subject matter seriously.



This was the funniest thing. Thank you.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

What if we went the _opposite _path?  Chose legendary directors to step outside their usual genres to “elevate“ pop culture icons?

What would Werner Herzog do retelling the Americanized Raymond  Burr version of _Godzilla_?

Or if Ken Burns, handed the entirety of the canon of Star Wars or Star Trek?

How awful would those be?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 16, 2021)

Orius said:


> I was looking of some of my old threads last night and dropped some likes here since this thread predates that system.  I was wondering who rezzed this thread and why just a few hours later.  It felt a little weird.



I am nothing if not a little weird.


----------



## billd91 (Apr 16, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> What if we went the _opposite _path?  Chose legendary directors to step outside their usual genres to “elevate“ pop culture icons?
> 
> What would Werner Herzog do retelling the Americanized Raymond  Burr version of _Godzilla_?
> 
> ...



<narrator voice - James Earl Jones>
"My dearest Padme:
The Grand Army of the Republic continues to make progress against the threat of the Separatists, though I fear it will still be many weeks before I can once again hold you in my arms. Camp life is difficult as with few amenities. Dysentery has broken out again among the clone troopers."


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 17, 2021)

I’d upvote that one more than once if I could!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 17, 2021)

<Werner Hertzog voiceover >

“As Emiko and I watched the giant reptile meandering through the smoldering remnants of downtown Tokyo, it was harried by squadron after squadron of fighter pilots.  Their brave but seemingly futile efforts reminded me of my own struggles bringing _Fitzcarraldo_ to completion...”


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## Bedrockgames (Apr 17, 2021)

Young Einstein


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## Paul Farquhar (Apr 17, 2021)

The Pirates! In an Adventure with Scientists!

The Pirate Captain meets Jane Austin in 1837, despite her having died in 1817.
-credit to my wife for this one.​


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 17, 2021)

Paul Farquhar said:


> The Pirates! In an Adventure with Scientists!
> 
> The Pirate Captain meets Jane Austin in 1837, despite her having died in 1817.
> -credit to my wife for this one.​


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## Orius (Apr 17, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I am nothing if not a little weird.



Weird would have been some random member, especially a newer one randomly necroing the thread after I read it.  You were responding to something I did, so not strangely coincidental.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 17, 2021)

Dragonwriter said:


> I hope this is sarcasm or humor... Because if you take Monty Python seriously, there is no hope for you.
> 
> But I can't think of any movies to add to the list, though I will agree with most of the ones proposed/mentioned/mocked so far.
> 
> Except the Uwe Boll idea. I know we'd need a low-cost director, but we can do better... *And yet, I am drawing a blank*.



Which _would _be better, unless you need to some tax deduction or secure some film funding support from local states or countries.


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## Ryujin (Apr 17, 2021)

Dragonwriter said:


> Except the Uwe Boll idea. I know we'd need a low-cost director, but we can do better... And yet, I am drawing a blank.



Hey, Roger Coreman is still around


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## dragoner (Apr 18, 2021)

I remember when "Enemy at the Gates" came out, some Russians were calling it Enema at the Gates.


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## Orius (Apr 18, 2021)

Ryujin said:


> Hey, Roger Coreman is still around



Corman doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Uwe Boll or even J. J. Abrams!  Yeah, the guy's known for B movie cheese, but he gave a lot of actors their first big break.  He deserves credit for that at least.

Comet is playing this piece of crap right now:









						Beowulf (1999)
					

A 1999 Science Fantasy action film based on the epic poem of the same name, starring Christopher Lambert and Rhona Mitra. Hearing about a monster bothering a castle, a hunter with supernatural powers named Beowulf goes there to ply his trade.




					tvtropes.org
				




Ok, so that's literary, not historical, but it's still awful.  I was wondering what the hell was going on with the old token black guy wearing _glasses_ and rolling my eyes at the really out of place techno soundtrack.  Then I read on TVTropes it's some kind bizarre post-apocalyptic futuristic thing.  The hell?!  Oh man, this thing is terrible, and it's weighted down with ansty 90s seriousness.

Christopher Lambert had a line that went something like "The monster grows tired of the game."  Jesus.  Do you know how hard it was for me to NOT make a snarky Highlander crack there?

I think I'm hearing this weird grinding rumbling noise.  Must be Tolkien rolling in his grave.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 18, 2021)

dragoner said:


> I remember when "Enemy at the Gates" came out, some Russians were calling it Enema at the Gates.




 To be fair the movie is full of crap and Americanisms.


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## dragoner (Apr 18, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> To be fair the movie is full of crap and Americanisms.



The German sniper officer is a fabrication; I mean Stalingrad deserves a good movie, something about Pavlov's house would be better.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 18, 2021)

dragoner said:


> The German sniper officer is a fabrication; I mean Stalingrad deserves a good movie, something about Pavlov's house would be better.




 Soviets mowing down their own unarmed men with machine guns were a fabrication.

 27 million dead and Hollywood spits out that go figure.


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## Eltab (Apr 18, 2021)

Any movie based on Shakespeare's historical plays.
The Bard gets the big picture and "how it worked out in the end" right, but everything else he altered for dramatic purposes.


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## dragoner (Apr 18, 2021)

Zardnaar said:


> Soviets mowing down their own unarmed men with machine guns were a fabrication.
> 
> 27 million dead and Hollywood spits out that go figure.



I don't expect them to care about us, our lives merely function as a score, still doesn't matter to them.


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## Paul Farquhar (Apr 18, 2021)

Eltab said:


> Any movie based on Shakespeare's historical plays.
> The Bard gets the big picture and "how it worked out in the end" right, but everything else he altered for dramatic purposes.



Some of the movies actually are more accurate than the original plays, or remove them from any historical context. Shakespeare could tell a story, but he was no historian. And the ones he based recent history are loaded with propaganda (because it was quite easy for a playwright to lose their head for saying the wrong thing in those days).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 18, 2021)

I need to get some sleep.

I was going to post about some of the nifty Shakespearean films that are divorced from the original setting, and realized that many were retellings of Romeo & Juliet, like _West Side Story _and _Romeo Must Die_.

And my sleep-deprived brain went and created a mash-up of Romeo & Juliet with Aliens & Predators.  My mind broke further trying to figure out the balcony scene* and which of the damaged directors would do the best/worst treatment of it.

(The death scene was easy- Alien fakes death, Predator stabs itself through the head, Alien sets off Predator’s mini-nuke.)


*
P: RRRRRRclkclkclkclkclk....ROWRRRRrrrrrrclkclkclk!

A: *Chhhhhhhhhhhssssss!   Chhhhhhhhhssssssss!  Snrarl Grrrrrrrr Hissssssss, Chhhhhhhhhhhhhssssss?*


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## Ryujin (Apr 18, 2021)

Orius said:


> Corman doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Uwe Boll or even J. J. Abrams!  Yeah, the guy's known for B movie cheese, but he gave a lot of actors their first big break.  He deserves credit for that at least.



You wanted a "low cost director" and "we could do better." That's where Corman comes in


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## Orius (Apr 18, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I need to get some sleep.
> 
> I was going to post about some of the nifty Shakespearean films that are divorced from the original setting, and realized that many were retellings of Romeo & Juliet, like _West Side Story _and _Romeo Must Die_.
> 
> ...




In that case, I think you need to sleep _less often_.


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## Istbor (Apr 21, 2021)

I would say any of the movies dealing with Troy. 

While fuzzy, I admit, they definitely are trying to depict it within a time period. 

Pathfinder was pretty bad too. While intimidating, I would not want to wear those helmets. Though personally I found the movie cool at the time. Karl Urban. Nice.

Kingdom of Heaven. I also liked, but not historically accurate.


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## Ryujin (Apr 21, 2021)

Another: "Ironclad."

TV shows: Pretty much anything to do with Vikings, including "Vikings"


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## CleverNickName (Apr 21, 2021)

I feel that "movies to soothe a historian" would be a much, much shorter list.


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## dragoner (Apr 22, 2021)

I sort of have to laugh that the history channel consistently has the least historical stuff on it, ancient aliens indeed.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 22, 2021)

Who could be chosen to spoof Giorgio A. Tsoukalos.? * And how?*

(My first instinct would be Samuel L. Jackson, in all his profane glory.)


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## dragoner (Apr 22, 2021)

Giorgio A. Tsoukalos could reprise Londo Mollari's role on B5 with that hair.


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## Tonguez (Apr 22, 2021)

Orius said:


> You want a bad movie night?  Asylum's crap will probably do.




It still amuses me that the Asylum’s Sinister Squad was a better more logical story than WB’s Suicide Squad

I actually cant tell which one is the cheap parody


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 22, 2021)

dragoner said:


> Giorgio A. Tsoukalos could reprise Londo Mollari's role on B5 with that hair.



So true.  Ditto the Kazon for ST: Voyager.


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## Paul Farquhar (Apr 22, 2021)

Istbor said:


> I would say any of the movies dealing with Troy.



Well, you could probably include Homer in _Epic Poems to Torment a Historian_ thread.


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## Tonguez (Apr 22, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I was going to post about some of the nifty Shakespearean




Yeah like King Arthur, Troy and similar none of the stories are accounts of actual historic events and so none of them can be considered ahistoric


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 22, 2021)

Tonguez said:


> Yeah like King Arthur, Troy and similar none of the stories are accounts of actual historic events and so none of them can be considered ahistoric



Thing is...his “historical” plays would probably satisfy the initial charge of this thread_ by themselves_.

Add the wrong director for the movie...

Voila!  Quentin Tarantino’s _Pulp_ _Richard_, starring QT in the titular role:

R3: See’st thou a sign on yon green proclaiming it “Dead Rivers Storage?”

Executioner: Pardon, m’lord?

R3:  Dost.  Thou.  A sign.  On yon green.  Perceive.  Proclaiming it “Dead Rivers Storage”?

Executioner: Nay, m’lor...

R3: BECAUSE YON GREEN IS NOT FOR STORING EARL RIVERS’ LIFELESS CORPSE, YOU MISBEGOTTEN, CLOTH-EARED *MUTTON-FLOGGER!!!*


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## DrunkonDuty (Apr 23, 2021)

Not a movie but a TV series: _Versaille. _So pretty to watch. So much wrong about everything...


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## Ryujin (Apr 23, 2021)

Reminded by @DrunkonDuty 's mention of Versailles...

Pretty much anything based on stories by Alexandre Dumas, but especially the craptastic 2011 film "The Three Musketeers" with Orlando Bloom as the Duke of Buckingham and Mila Jovovich as Lady deWinter. Airships. Cart-wheeling rapier fights in which random _slashes_ kill guardsmen outright. All of that on top of Dumas' usual historical inaccuracies...


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## MattW (Apr 23, 2021)

Anything involving Mel Gibson.  Especially if he can show "the English" in a bad light..

Let's just go with Braveheart

1. Blue face paint?  Er, no... That was the Picts (more than a thousand years earlier)
2. Kilts?  No. Not yet.  Come back in about 300 years.  Maybe 500
3. Wallace as a farmer/peasant?  No.  He was from a knightly family.  He would have had extensive military training.
4. Romance with a French princess?  No.  She was 13 when Wallace was executed/dismembered
5. Braveheart was Wallace's nickname?  No.  That was Robert the Bruce
6. Edward Longshanks and Wallace died at the same time? No. (1307 and 1305, respectively)
7. Edward II  (Longshank's son) was stereotypically gay?  No.  He MIGHT have been homosexual, and there were definitely rumours.  But he wasn't particularly effeminate and had at least 4 kids with his wife - and was rumoured to have a couple of heterosexual affairs.
8.  The Scots sacked YORK?  No.  That was Carlisle.  {God knows why Gibson would change this}

Now, if I was to start on "The Patriot" ...we'd be here all day.  Where are all the black slaves?  Where are the thousands of French Soldiers?  Where's Baron Friedrich von Steuben? etctera, etcetera....


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## Ryujin (Apr 23, 2021)

MattW said:


> Anything involving Mel Gibson.  Especially if he can show "the English" in a bad light..
> 
> Let's just go with Braveheart
> 
> ...



Yeah, that one hurt. I could almost hear my ancestors, who had barely made it to Scotland from Ireland at the time, moaning in their graves.

The sacking? Who doesn't love a good sacking? History? BAH! Couldn't otherwise have had it in the movie.


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## Marc_C (Apr 23, 2021)

Balde Runner. Clearly the future presented in this movie is not historically correct.


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## doctorbadwolf (Apr 23, 2021)

Orius said:


> After all, what could our historian love more than a bunch of peasants singing "We Will Rock You" at a 14th century jousting match?



To be fair, I've never met a historian that didn't love that movie.


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## doctorbadwolf (Apr 23, 2021)

Orius said:


> Corman doesn't deserve to be compared to the likes of Uwe Boll or even J. J. Abrams!  Yeah, the guy's known for B movie cheese, but he gave a lot of actors their first big break.  He deserves credit for that at least.
> 
> Comet is playing this piece of crap right now:
> 
> ...






Ryujin said:


> Reminded by @DrunkonDuty 's mention of Versailles...
> 
> Pretty much anything based on stories by Alexandre Dumas, but especially the craptastic 2011 film "The Three Musketeers" with Orlando Bloom as the Duke of Buckingham and Mila Jovovich as Lady deWinter. Airships. Cart-wheeling rapier fights in which random _slashes_ kill guardsmen outright. All of that on top of Dumas' usual historical inaccuracies...




I can't imagine historians caring about either of these, or movies like them, that aren't at all intended to be accurate to anything by the themes and tone of the movie they're trying to make. 

Nothing wrong at all with a steampunk 3 Musketeers or a post-apocolyptic Beowulf, other than the poor execution of both movies in question _as movies_. Complaining that they aren't historically accurate to an alt history France that never existed and a post apocalyptic future? Might as well complain that magic isn't real when watching a fantasy movie.


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## MGibster (Apr 24, 2021)

MattW said:


> Now, if I was to start on "The Patriot" ...we'd be here all day. Where are all the black slaves? Where are the thousands of French Soldiers? Where's Baron Friedrich von Steuben? etctera, etcetera....



It's been almost 21 years since I saw the movie, but the lack of von Stueben wasn't a big problem as the movie focused on a ragtag group of militiamen who weren't part of the regular army.  i.e.  The exact type of soldier that Washington wasn't particularly fond of but whose efficacy became part of our national origin myth.  You're right that it's tough to even know where to begin with _The Patriot_ but let's have some fun.  


As a general rule, the British were not a bunch of evil gits with a habit of burning a bunch of defenseless colonist in a church.  As an American I'm certainly on the pro-revolutionary side, but even Americans at the time didn't typically think of the British as being all that evil.  Both sides were keen to resume trade once the war was over.  
"We're not slaves.  We work this ground, as freedmen."  Excuse me?  You're in South Carolina circa 1776 and all these black workers are "employees" of a white landowner?  That took me right out of the movie.
The militia were not all that effective against the British.  They were poorly trained, poorly disciplined, and really couldn't stand up to regular British soldiers.  
The sad thing is that _The Patriot_ could have been an interesting movie. Ben Martin is reluctant to join the revolution for fear of returning to his barbaric ways during the French/Indian War. Seeing a former soldier return to his barbarous ways would have been interesting. Examining the cognitive dissonance involved in people crying about their freedom while keeping humans in bondage would have been interesting. Instead we got a lot of flash and little substance.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 25, 2021)

Well...considering the people who made the film...


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## Bohandas (May 4, 2021)

Has anybody mentioned _The Da Vinci Code_ yet?

It has the gnostics believing the exact opposite of what the gnostics believed, and more egregiously despite the film being set in the late twentieth century the main characters all talk about the Catholic Church as if it were still 1516.

EDIT:
And I think they stole part of the ending from Monty Python. Everybody gets arrested and the grail is found with the frenchmen from the beginning of the film.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 4, 2021)

YEEEEEARS ago, I was watching TV, and an old action movie about Vikings landing in the new world, fighting the natives, etc.  it was full of jarring oddities.

I don’t recall who was in it.  One of the Vikings was a black guy.* Another wore a spiked helmet that looked like a Pickelhaube helmet from a Prussian/German WW1 movie.  Also, the natives looked more Polynesian than any of the people you’d find in the coastal regions of northeastern America.





* yes, I know there were black and brown people in viking lands, both free and slaves, travelers and actual members of the society.  Some even fully assimilated.  But having _exactly one_ in the movie without explanation is odd, to say the least.


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## Ryujin (May 4, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> YEEEEEARS ago, I was watching TV, and an old action movie about Vikings landing in the new world, fighting the natives, etc.  it was full of jarring oddities.
> 
> I don’t recall who was in it.  One of the Vikings was a black guy.* Another wore a spiked helmet that looked like a Pickelhaube helmet from a Prussian/German WW1 movie.  Also, the natives looked more Polynesian than any of the people you’d find in the coastal regions of northeastern America.
> 
> ...



I had to give up on the TV show "Vikings" when, in the first episode, I noticed that one of the characters was wearing the same leather LARP vest that I own. OK, not at that exact moment, but it was the beginning of the end.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 4, 2021)

Just to get a taste of how bad things COULD get, here’s a clip from 1993’s mocumentary _And God Spoke._  The more you know about Hollywood, filmmaking, and Christianity, the funnier this movie is.  Because the thing that the movie biz gets almost as wrong as historical dramas is Biblical dramas.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 4, 2021)

BTW, that clip was picked because of its lack of cursing...  The film has many gems, but language prohibits:


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## Orius (May 5, 2021)

Bohandas said:


> Has anybody mentioned _The Da Vinci Code_ yet?
> 
> It has the gnostics believing the exact opposite of what the gnostics believed, and more egregiously despite the film being set in the late twentieth century the main characters all talk about the Catholic Church as if it were still 1516.
> 
> ...



Yeah, I called it cheese a few pages back, but I'm not sure it qualifies as historical.  The Templars got taken down because the king of France owed them a ton of money and it was easier for him to tear them down than pay them back.  That's all there was to it.


Dannyalcatraz said:


> YEEEEEARS ago, I was watching TV, and an old action movie about Vikings landing in the new world, fighting the natives, etc.  it was full of jarring oddities.
> 
> I don’t recall who was in it.  One of the Vikings was a black guy.* Another wore a spiked helmet that looked like a Pickelhaube helmet from a Prussian/German WW1 movie.  Also, the natives looked more Polynesian than any of the people you’d find in the coastal regions of northeastern America.
> 
> ...



Black Viking is silly enough, but I've got one better.  Back in the 80s, they made a sequel to The Dirty Dozen.  One of the soldiers they recruit to infiltrate a German military position in the middle of WWII was black.  Putting a black guy in *a Nazi uniform *is probably the most blantant, ridiculous, and out of place tokenism I have ever seen.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 5, 2021)

I had the same reaction to the (admittedly ahistorical) Wild Wild West with Will Smith.  While there were indeed black secret service agents at the time, they were not going to be selected for the kinds of missions the show (& movie) depicted.


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## Orius (May 5, 2021)

Well, Wild Wild West gets a bit of a pass for not being serious history at all.

I saw that sequel I was a kid or maybe in my early teens.  I don't really remember, but I was old enough to understand just how little it made sense.  I do vaguely remember a scene where they encounter some German soldiers and the German guys are acting like "WTF is this black guy doing here?!"  Reaaaaly awkward.  It was like the movie knew it was dumb, tried to hang a lampshade on it, but the drunk guy at the party went home with it on his head instead.


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## Dioltach (May 5, 2021)

Marc_C said:


> Balde Runner. Clearly the future presented in this movie is not historically correct.



"Balde Runner: Ye Olde Mo Farrah Storie"?


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## Dioltach (May 5, 2021)

I enjoyed the first series of The Medici, with Dustin Hoffman and Richard Madden. Some liberties taken with historical fact, but still enjoyable. Then came the second series and they Millennialed it all up.

Another one that's particularly bad is Reign.


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## Ryujin (May 5, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I had the same reaction to the (admittedly ahistorical) Wild Wild West with Will Smith.  While there were indeed black secret service agents at the time, they were not going to be selected for the kinds of missions the show (& movie) depicted.



But at least Jon Peters got his giant spider, that he didn't get to have in "Superman Lives"


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## MattW (May 6, 2021)

To be fair... almost all movies about "The Old West" are historically inaccurate.  They've always been more like  mythology, rather than any attempt at realism.


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## Lanefan (May 7, 2021)

Asking for historical accuracy from an obvious send-up like _A Knight's Tale_ is pointless, and defeats the purpose.  Ditto with something like _Xena: Warrior Princess_; a glorious mash-up of different timelines utterly lacking in anything resembling historical accuracy yet providing excellent inspoiration for D&D game settings.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 7, 2021)

Lanefan said:


> Asking for historical accuracy from an obvious send-up like _A Knight's Tale_ is pointless, and defeats the purpose.  Ditto with something like _Xena: Warrior Princess_; a glorious mash-up of different timelines utterly lacking in anything resembling historical accuracy yet providing excellent inspoiration for D&D game settings.



The thing that annoyed me most about the _Hercules/Xena _setting was how many hundreds of years were covered by it.


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## Orius (May 7, 2021)

MattW said:


> To be fair... almost all movies about "The Old West" are historically inaccurate.  They've always been more like  mythology, rather than any attempt at realism.




Yeah, there's a lot of wild and inaccurate stories going from dime novel influences, through stuff from Hollywood's Golden Age which had a lot of romanticized nonsense and so on.   But some of them make good stories.



Dannyalcatraz said:


> The thing that annoyed me most about the _Hercules/Xena _setting was how many hundreds of years were covered by it.



More like thousands.

Generally the shows put them about 15-20 years after whenever the Trojan War occured.  Whatever historical events inspired that would be about roughly 1200 BC.  The Dahak storyline had Hercules going to Babylon and hanging out with Gilgamesh.  Both of course are mythological figures (though possibly based on historical figures) but Gilgamesh's story is much older than Hercules.  Then Xena visits something that looks like it was supposed to be late Warring States China, and she's got Julius Caesar as an arch enemy, and he mostly lived in 1st century BC.  Hercules though was a less serious show, where Xena had me rolling my eyes more, and I eventually gave up on the latter.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 7, 2021)

I didn’t watch either enough to catch all of the jumbles, but I recall a Xena episode that tied into the story of Abraham‘s near sacrifice of Isaac (estimated around 2100 BCE) and her having Caesar as an enemy,  That drove me nuts.


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## Khelon Testudo (May 7, 2021)

I thought it was funny. Clearly the writers are saying "we don't care" about actual history, they're just writing what they thought was fun. Until it started getting heavy and angsty.


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## Lanefan (May 7, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> The thing that annoyed me most about the _Hercules/Xena _setting was how many hundreds of years were covered by it.



It didn't annoy me - I thought it was great!  My D&D settings are similar, with cultures from many different eras (e.g. Sumerian, classical Greek, Roman, Norse, early Renaissance) all going at the same time.


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## Imaculata (May 7, 2021)

Just as a side note, I don't think Uwe Boll is as terrible a director as people make him out to be. He is just the internet's favorite punching bag. Consider this:

-Most of his actors enjoy working with him
-He delivers his movies by the deadline
-He doesn't go over budget
-When he needs extras to play prostitutes, he just get some real ones to play the part.
-He was able to get a semi decent performance out of Michael Madsen, who is drunk off his arse most of the time.
-He is delightfully honest in interviews.
-AFAIK, no one ever died or got gravely injured during the filming of any of his movies.

Most Hollywood directors do not meet these criteria.


----------



## Bohandas (May 8, 2021)

Plus he did an ok job with _Postal_.


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## Orius (May 8, 2021)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I didn’t watch either enough to catch all of the jumbles, but I recall a Xena episode that tied into the story of Abraham‘s near sacrifice of Isaac (estimated around 2100 BCE) and her having Caesar as an enemy,  That drove me nuts.




Well, any historical basis for Gilgamesh is though to have occurred sometime between 3000 and 2500 BC, so that's even further back.

I dunno, Hercules was never very serious, and was often entertaining, and so the sillier anachronisms can usually be ignored.  Xena though eventually drove me nuts with all the nonsense going on with Callisto, Dahak, and Caesar, and by the end of the fourth season, I lost my patience with it.  And I never liked Gabrielle.


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## Imaculata (May 8, 2021)

Orius said:


> And I never liked Gabrielle.




You monster! O_O


----------



## Lanefan (May 9, 2021)

Orius said:


> Well, any historical basis for Gilgamesh is though to have occurred sometime between 3000 and 2500 BC, so that's even further back.
> 
> I dunno, Hercules was never very serious, and was often entertaining, and so the sillier anachronisms can usually be ignored.  Xena though eventually drove me nuts with all the nonsense going on with Callisto, Dahak, and Caesar, and by the end of the fourth season, I lost my patience with it.  And I never liked Gabrielle.



Xena's fourth season was weak.  Fifth was hit and miss.  Sixth got back toward the whimsy of the first three, and was better as a result.


----------

