# What 5th-level spells should any Wizard prepare?



## dcollins

Here's a poll in a series I'm trying to use to generate a "baseline" core Wizard's spell list. You can pick as many selections as you like.

Say you have a Wizard of about 12th level -- adventuring, PC or NPC, non-specialized, non-multiclassed, core rules only. He or she can likely prepare 3 or 4 spells of 5th-level. What spells should he or she prepare in those slots?

You can pick as many selections as you'd like -- I would suggest around 4.


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## fujaiwei

Teleport seems to be about the most important spell in the game, to me. It allows you to bypass some of mankinds greatest limitations - distance and time. Now if we only had a spell to travel back in time . . . or maybe I'm reading too much Weis & Hickman.


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## shilsen

For me:
Number 1 pick was Teleport, followed by Magic Jar and Wall of Force. Teleport is pretty obvious. Magic Jar is great for being in a dangerous situation in relative physical safety. And Wall of Force is great for controlling the battlefield. 

After that, I'd take either Dominate Person, Hold Monster or Feeblemind, depending on what kind of enemies one was expecting to encounter.


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## Rashak Mani

WALL OF FORCE 

  This is a spell that can save an entire PC group. Except of course with pesky ethereals. You can cut off even mighty opponents... split the enemy and finish off one part first... escape by blocking the enemy. Use it against magical spells by readying it...

   Teleport is too often used by the DM as a means of quickening PCs to somehwere else in the plot. In combat its not that useful... you have to gather everyone around to escape for example.


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## EvilGM

Wall of Force - battlefield control.  there are so many uses for an invisible, mostly indestructable wall.

Teleport - mobility is good

Mage's Private Sanctum - peace and quiet and no scrying me you fools

Feeblemind - how would you like to be a drooling idiot?  (alternate material component: bib)

Runner up...
Break Enchantment - handy, but many other classes get this as well, let them prepare it.


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## Urbanmech

Teleport, Wall of Force, and Feeblemind.  

Teleport is useful for utility travel aspects and to get past obstacles but in a pinch it can be a useful combat spell.  Touch the enemy and send him 1000 miles away.

Wall of Force can very effectively divide a battlefield and much of 3rd edition is about lessening the number of foes you have to fight at one time.  Unless the foes can teleport or cast disintegrate they are stuck behind the wall to watch their comrades fall.  It can also block an escape route that enemies may use to summon help.  Lots of fun.

Feeblemind can reduce a mighty wizard to a useless bag of hitpoints.  It can also remove the fighting prowess of intelligent foes.  Though I wish the rulings on what a character is capable of at 1 int were more clear.  What feats are useable?  How does a fighter continue to operate if feebleminded?


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## sinmissing

I prefer my mages to be 50% utility/50% artillery
Mind Fog, Passwall, Cloud Kill, and Break Enchantment

Mind Fog is awesome (when it works) against creatures with good Wil saves.  It cracks their mind open like a delectable lobster. . . .


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## Saeviomagy

sinmissing said:
			
		

> Mind Fog is awesome (when it works) against creatures with good Wil saves.  It cracks their mind open like a delectable lobster. . . .



To me, a will save spell that reduces will saves seems about as useful as a balloon in an earthquake.

ie - it has no relevance.

The action you spend casting it could easily have been spent
a) Casting a spell which didn't target will saves, and therefore had a higher chance of success
b) Casting a spell which targeted will saves but totally took the victims out of the combat

In fact, casting mind fog and THEN a will-save targeting spell has a zero percent impact on the success of just casting the will-targeting spell in the first place.

The only possible use I can think of for it is to place it over the entrance to an area that you expect a very large number of foes to pass through, before targeting them all with something like enthrall.


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## Dthamilaye

Firebrand (From Magic of Faerun). If your opponents are not airborne, there really is no better blast spell .

Of course, Teleport and WoForce are pretty ok too.


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## Thanee

Voted Teleport only. All the others are in no way essential, tho one of those wall spells (force, stone) is obviously pretty good in some situations.

Bye
Thanee


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## Asheron

I chose Teleport, Wall of Force for obvious reasons and Break Enchantment but that's because for some reason it always comes in handy during our quests.....


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## Inconsequenti-AL

Teleport's the only one I'd say is an essential...

Wall of Force/Stone got touched on as really useful. Stone is scultable - which I've found very useful. 

Telepathic Bond can be a very nice spell! Good for exploration and in a lot of social interaction stuff - no need for that pesky talking.

Telekinisis is really useful and versatile spell. The combat maneuvers can be nice. Violent thrust for high SR/save bad guys (funnier with a flame arrow spell). Another plus, you can even use it to move stuff around at a push.

But wouldn't class them as essential.


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## Plane Sailing

I voted telekinesis as the most essential. It has so much variety and it must be one of the best anti-caster spells in existence! Grapple check at 800ft+ range where I'm using level+INT bonus and you're using BAB+Str? wizardly opponents are in for a world of hurt. The telekinetic thrust is also excellent if you have a prepared position (Oh look, I've got 12 greatswords sitting around here. Whoosh )

It is one of the (very few) spells with more than one use that hasn't been split up.

My secondary picks were teleport (get out of jail free, tactical repositioning), Magic Jar (gain some wonderful physical fighting characteristics at almost no risk), Cloudkill (no save, no spell resistance... it's going to hurt a bit at least and is great against mooks too. Who needs circle of death?) and a toss up between wall of force and sending.


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## Li Shenron

Difficult level... I'm going to suggest something probably not very popular, but which I have find surprisingly useful.

_Mind Fog_ 
This spell does no harm directly, but the huge -10 penalty to Will saves makes the target an easy prey for your next spells. As such, it is always used first for a deadly combination, or to make high-will casters easier targets for spells with will ST.
The drawback of this spell is that... it actually give a Will ST itself!   So again the casters are still having the edge against it. However, it's an AREA spell and as such if you catch 3-4 enemies inside you're pretty sure that at least some will be affected.

_Prying Eyes_ 
It's only a scouting spell, but it really helps a lot. If you have darkvision or can afford improving your visual capacity with other spells, it can be enhanced a lot. The long duration, relatively long range and multiple eyes let you use this spell both for scouting an open surrounding area or a dungeon.
Drawback: the biggest limitation is that it cannot open doors or bypass physical barriers. Also it takes time to send the eyes around, so it's not for emergency use. The eyes can also be noticed, but typically it's not easy.

_Wall of Force_ 
It works only as a short-duration defensive emergency spell, but basically it's unbeatable (Disintegrate is the only common mean to destroy a Wall of Force). If you are surprised and you need time to buff up, or if you just want to run.
The drawback is that most of the time you rather prefer to smash your enemies   . If you could shape the wall - but you can't - it would be more versatile but not very, unless the duration was also much longer.

There are many spells at this level also which are very useful. Most commonly seen IMXP are not the ones I proposed but rather _Feeblemind_ (anti-caster spell), _Baleful Polymorph_ (actually better than the previous 99% of the times) and _Teleport_ (which may be required less often but also achieves game-breaking results). These however depend a lot of which spells of other levels you have prepared, because their effects (insta-kill the first 2, teleportation the other) are done by many spells in the list.


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## Thanee

Li Shenron said:
			
		

> The drawback of this spell is that... it actually give a Will ST itself!



 That's one pretty huge drawback, however. I'd rather use a spell, that has an immediate effect. If the only point of the spell is, that my other spell is going to work more easily, then I really could just have used that other spell in the first place and the failed saving throw would have given me the desired result already. 

 This spell should give a flat -4 modifier to the saving throw or something at least, otherwise I just cannot see how this could be useful.

 Bye
 Thanee


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## Li Shenron

Thanee said:
			
		

> That's one pretty huge drawback, however. I'd rather use a spell, that has an immediate effect. If the only point of the spell is, that my other spell is going to work more easily, then I really could just have used that other spell in the first place and the failed saving throw would have given me the desired result already.
> 
> This spell should give a flat -4 modifier to the saving throw or something at least, otherwise I just cannot see how this could be useful.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




If it affects more creatures, or if the second spell has a lower DC, it is useful IMO.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae

Thanee, others:

Mind Fog isn't all that great if you're a standard Wizard.

*However*, it is *freakin* amazing if you're an Enchantment-focused Wizard who also happens to be a team player.

Why?

Because, when specializing in Enchantment, you've probably taken the requisite Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats and have a decent Int bonus, meaning your Enchantment save DCs are pretty respectable.

Compare this to the save DC of the party cleric's Hold Monster spell, or any of the other Wizards' various Will-based spells.  You're likely to be much, much better at such spells than they are.

So you don't cast Mind Fog to make your own spells more likely to stick - although that's an added bonus - you cast Mind Fod to allow the spells of the less specialized members of your team to stick.


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## Altamont Ravenard

Wall of Force and Teleport, of course.

I voted for Hold Monster as well... a good spell that can affect many a creature. It's great when you're not sure what you'll be facing.

AR


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## Darmanicus

Teleport - A no brainer but I wouldn't go as far to say it was essential.

Wall of Force - Battlefield control at its finest.

Summon Monster 5 - The monsters get really good at this point IMO. Take Augment Summons and you get Griffons who can take a huge beating before being chopped up. Hound Archons are pretty grand as well what with that aura they generate, (can be a bit much paperwork at times though).


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## Elder-Basilisk

5th level doesn't have a lot of standout spells like 3rd level. For the most part, I think of 5th level as the slot for metamagicked lower level spells. Still, if I had to pick four to prepare, they'd be:

Feeblemind: The ulitmate anti-wizard and anti-sorceror spell. A big part of your role as a wizard or sorcerer is taking out the other side's artillery. Feeblemind does that and then some.

Wall of Force: The large area and unbreakable nature of the wall of force make it a key spell for shaping and manipulating the battlefield. Even in an open field, it will generally buy a round or two of freedom from half of your foes--and that's often enough to entirely defeat their allies.

Magic Jar: It's one of those spells that needs some finesse in order to work, but when it works, it has an exponential effect. Taking over a large, high HD creature like a giant and walking through the rest of the mod in that creature's body has a domino effect upon later encounters.

Waves of Fatigue: It's a battlefield altering spell that alters the battlefield by altering your opponents. If they can't run or charge, they can't manuever, and foes that can't manuever are meat for the picking. The -2 to strength and dex can also have a domino effect upon foes who suddenly become encumbered and this is especially noticable for lightly armored foes with middling strength scores.

There are a few spells that didn't make the list, despite being incredible spells. Teleport is an amazing spell but it's not a spell I would have a wizard prepare every day. Instead, I'd leave an open slot and prep a teleport if I needed it. For short range mobility, Dimension Door is more reliable and has less opportunity cost. Fabricate is an INCREDIBLE spell for wizards who have invested in craft skills. There's nothing like being able to take a tree and a lump of pig iron and churn out a few thousand masterwork arrows in one day or churning out masterwork swords for an entire army and barrels full of alchemist's fire for the catapults. But it's not a spell you'd prepare every day unless you were trying to drive particular guilds out of business or ruin local economies by running skilled workers out of business and then exiting the business yourself, leaving whole sections of the economy missing. Wall of Stone is a similar spell. If you want to do large scale construction quickly, you can't do better than Wall of Stone. Even so, it's not something you'd prepare every day.


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## Shard O'Glase

I went with wall of stone, baleful polymorph, and fabricate.

Wall of stone is a weaker wall of force bit its instantaneous duration gives it some utility beyong being a combat spell.  It IMX does a decent enough job at the herding and corwd control that its extra benefits make it more worthwhile than wall of force.

Baleful polymorph: really any of the save or dies would work here and it really depends on your foes(basically which save do you want to target will or fort) but I think this is the cooler one and don't bother with making them trout and giving a +4 save make them a turtle or a sloth so there not getting away and there easy meat.

Fabricate: probably best saved for an open slot but this is the ultimate swiss army knife spell until poly any object.  Its so good and I use it so often that I had to put it on the list.

Tons of other great spells though I find this level kind of an akward mix of an odd and even level'd style spells.  I'm really expecting to see some improved fireball spell but it doesn't show up until chain lighitng at 6th.


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## Scion

I am really on the wall about what to pick for this one.

By this point in the wizards carear they have a good number of spell slots open. Effectively what is best depends entirely on what else is going on in their life. General usefulness? Way more than 4 fit into that section. Plus, one could be useing metamagics in order to fill these slots up with lower level spells to fill in other gaps or to help with some other general situation.

Overall, especially for a character in a party, it is just so dependant on too many other things for an overall generalness. The party composition, or allies, what type of environment one is in, what you expect might happen, what are in your other slots, etc. Now one has the versitility to make so many choices that it is just too up in the air (not to mention that useing a metamagiced spell from lower level isnt even an option  ).

At this point I am actually thinking just fill in all 4 slots with summon monster 5. Lower level slots can do almost all of the same versitility stuff in some way and those guys will be the most overall generally useful for nearly any situation that arises.


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## Kershek

Elder-Basilisk said:
			
		

> Fabricate is an INCREDIBLE spell for wizards who have invested in craft skills. There's nothing like being able to take a tree and a lump of pig iron and churn out a few thousand masterwork arrows in one day or churning out masterwork swords for an entire army and barrels full of alchemist's fire for the catapults.



I hadn't thought of this.  How many alchemists fires could a 9th level wizard make in a day?  How many equates to 90 cu/ft?


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## Nail

I picked the obvious ones (Wall of Force, Teleport), but I have to say, I'm awfully partial to Summon Monster V.

It's a great utility and attack spell, all rolled into one.  Celestial Brown Bear rocks -- that Imp. Grab has made my PC's life much easier.  The Huge fiendish shark helped us box-in a swimming black dragon, flying opponents hate celestial griffons, and being able to summon 1d3 fiendish large spiders (that throw Webs!) has been golden.  What's not to like about this spell?


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## Nail

Kershek said:
			
		

> I hadn't thought of this.  How many alchemists fires could a 9th level wizard make in a day?  How many equates to 90 cu/ft?



Assume the density of alchemist's fire is twice that of water.  (2 g/mL)

If you can make 90 cubic feet of alchemists fire, and each alchemist's fire weighs 1 pound, then you can make ~11,239 alchemist's fires.

Per casting.  As a 9th level wizard.


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## Kershek

Ok, I think I figured it out.  About 4,000 - 4,500 alchemists fires will likely fit in 90 cu/ft depending on the shape and thickness of the flasks.  To make all these, it would cost between 26k - 30k.  Then again, the market price is three times that


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## Ridley's Cohort

The only truly must have spells for me are Wall of Force and Silent Dimension Door.

Wall of Force shapes the battlefield like no other spell.  My favorite wizard spell, period.

I always want to have a Silent Dimension Door or Silent Teleport handy.  I most often use it to pull an injured or fallen comrade out of harms way.


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## shilsen

Ridley's Cohort said:
			
		

> I always want to have a Silent Dimension Door or Silent Teleport handy.  I most often use it to pull an injured or fallen comrade out of harms way.




Not to mention getting one's own ass out of harm's way when grappled, entangled, pinned, swallowed, or the like.


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## Saeviomagy

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> *However*, it is *freakin* amazing if you're an Enchantment-focused Wizard who also happens to be a team player.



To me, team player means being effective. I don't see mind fog as being effective except in very, very restricted situations.


> Because, when specializing in Enchantment, you've probably taken the requisite Spell Focus and Greater Spell Focus feats and have a decent Int bonus, meaning your Enchantment save DCs are pretty respectable.
> 
> Compare this to the save DC of the party cleric's Hold Monster spell, or any of the other Wizards' various Will-based spells.  You're likely to be much, much better at such spells than they are.



Which is why you're probably better off just using your own spells. Had you cast (say) fear or confusion, both lower-level spells, then your opponents would have been basically out of the fight for the next minute.

Anyway, back on topic.

Teleport. Memorised. It is THE saviour for the party from a TPK. Set up a maneuver where the party grabs fallen and gathers round and you teleport out. Dimension door simply can't fill this one.

Overland flight. All day flight is just great. Combine with the cheap boots of levitation for hover mode.

Major creation - produce yourself a boatload of healing salve (A&EG) and use it before the spell wears off.


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## fujaiwei

Elder-Basilisk said:
			
		

> Magic Jar: It's one of those spells that needs some finesse in order to work, but when it works, it has an exponential effect. Taking over a large, high HD creature like a giant and walking through the rest of the mod in that creature's body has a domino effect upon later encounters.
> 
> Waves of Fatigue: It's a battlefield altering spell that alters the battlefield by altering your opponents. If they can't run or charge, they can't manuever, and foes that can't manuever are meat for the picking. The -2 to strength and dex can also have a domino effect upon foes who suddenly become encumbered and this is especially noticable for lightly armored foes with middling strength scores.




More great ideas . . . *scribbles notes*  Thanks.


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## Shard O'Glase

Kershek said:
			
		

> I hadn't thought of this.  How many alchemists fires could a 9th level wizard make in a day?  How many equates to 90 cu/ft?




Is it made form plants or minerals.  Minerals the area of effect is dropped by a lot.  I'm not sure which figure you used since I don't have the book in front of me and my memory sucks right now.


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## Testament

Teleport: What can't it do?

Waves of Fatigue: No save screwover for the enemy.  Yes please!

For other slots at this level, metamagiced lower level spells.  These two are the only must haves.


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## Shard O'Glase

Ridley's Cohort said:
			
		

> The only truly must have spells for me are Wall of Force and Silent Dimension Door.
> 
> Wall of Force shapes the battlefield like no other spell.  My favorite wizard spell, period.
> 
> I always want to have a Silent Dimension Door or Silent Teleport handy.  I most often use it to pull an injured or fallen comrade out of harms way.




While I'm a big fan of a silent D-door or teleport for the escape hatch at levels 12ish I'd rather put the slot in somehting else and rely upon a contingency.  A short version of my favorite being D-door me If I'm successfully grappled.  I also like one based if I'm caught by surprise, since 1 surprise round can very easily mean one dead wizard.  At hgiher levels where my level 5 slot isn't as important or lower levels before contiency I always have 1 prepared.  In fact I take the silent spell feat pretty much just for D-Door and teleport.


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## sir Loki

I usually take teleport an feeblemind. But i don't get why anyone would take dream. Can someone explain to me why dream is a level 5 spell.


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## jimmicus

Nail said:
			
		

> I picked the obvious ones (Wall of Force, Teleport), but I have to say, I'm awfully partial to Summon Monster V.
> 
> It's a great utility and attack spell, all rolled into one.  Celestial Brown Bear rocks -- that Imp. Grab has made my PC's life much easier.  The Huge fiendish shark helped us box-in a swimming black dragon, flying opponents hate celestial griffons, and being able to summon 1d3 fiendish large spiders (that throw Webs!) has been golden.  What's not to like about this spell?




The casting time.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae

> Had you cast (say) fear or confusion, both lower-level spells, then your opponents would have been basically out of the fight for the next minute.




Assuming, of course, that the lowered save DCs (because they *are* lower-level spells) aren't a problem...

Of course, the real problem is that, unlike most fog spells, Mind Fog doesn't force a new save every round you're in it.  I think that's rather ... annoying, personally.

Also, Mind Fog forces


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## TroyXavier

Teleport is the only spell you have to have.   The rest vary in utility and need.


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## Ogrork the Mighty

Wall of Force is much more versatile than Teleport (although WoF did suffer a kickdown in power in 3.5). Teleport is good for traveling long distances. That's about it. Anything else, you can do with Dimension Door. So, if I had to choose, I'd take Wall of Force.


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## MetalBard

Permanency!

Poor forgotten permanency.  Yes teleport and wall of force are highly versatile in a pinch, but permanency can make you versatile with a little bit of planning ahead and all those wonderful lower-level effects.  Things like constant detect magic and such are great.  Subtle, but definitely makes for some very eldritch wizardry.

Then again, this is a preferred mode for a wizard.  I don't like playing sorcerors, but teleport and wall of force are definite must-haves for spell-knowledge poor sorcerors.


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## Nail

Permanency!!!?????   

As a spell to have memeorized at all times????  Are you nuts?


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