# STARGATE UNIVERSE #1 & 2:AIR/Season 1/2009



## Truth Seeker (Oct 3, 2009)

*AIR (1)*

A research team studying the Stargate's ninth chevron is forced to flee through the gate when their secret base is attacked by an unknown enemy. They end up stranded on an Ancient ship named Destiny, billions of light years from Earth​AIR (2)

The evacuees from Icarus Base discover that the life-support system on the Destiny will fail in a matter of hours


​


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 3, 2009)

Not a bad start, I enjoyed it.  RDA... man, he didn't not look great.  If their intention was to make Rush completely unlikable, they succeeded beyond expectation.


----------



## Wycen (Oct 3, 2009)

Uh oh.

Being part of Stargate = cool.

Being more like BSG than ST: Voyeur = bad.  And I don't even consider Star Trek Voyager a good show.

And since I figured you could use the floating cameras to close the door and the writers didn't, that's another bad sign.


----------



## theT0rmented (Oct 3, 2009)

So... does everyone in the expedition have the Ancient gene? I thought Ancient technology could only be activated by someone with the gene. It's a lucky thing the senator has the gene...

And I agree about Rush; I kept hoping the soldier (who was in detention) would pop a bullet in his head. Rush was extremely annoying.

Did they explain why no one else tried the communication stones? (Maybe I missed it) Just to check and see if Rush was lying. No one seemed to trust him, yet no one checked up on his "I'm in command" statement.


----------



## Oni (Oct 3, 2009)

When I saw an ad for it, my first thought was that it looked stupid, but I happened to catch the second airing last night and I'm glad I did because I really enjoyed it.  

Personally, while not likable, I thought Rush was an interesting character and Eli whom I thought would annoy me didn't, and in fact I enjoyed that character as well.  

All in all, definitely watch it again.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 4, 2009)

Wycen said:


> And since I figured you could use the floating cameras to close the door and the writers didn't, that's another bad sign.




I assumed that when they said someone needed to be inside, that meant someone physically, and they tested the camera.



theT0rmented said:


> Did they explain why no one else tried the communication stones? (Maybe I missed it) Just to check and see if Rush was lying. No one seemed to trust him, yet no one checked up on his "I'm in command" statement.




Personally, I think that'll be in the next episode.  However, I'm not certain anyone but Rush knows where they are at the moment.  Additionally, the commander (Young) getting back on his feet helped a lot as well.  After all, the first thing he did was try to dial Earth.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 4, 2009)

I enjoyed the pilot a lot for these reasons:

1. It was totally different from the other, more formulaic Stargate shows. It reminded me a lot more of the mystery and darkness and frontiers nature of the movie than the shows. That was obviously intentional.

2. They are cut off form support and relieve. Totally cut off even from technological resupply. Every technological advantage they have in the future will have to be scavenged or adapted from the ship they are on. This will inevitably change their relationship with technology. On all previous shows they were masters or could become masters of the technology they built, employed, adapted, or adopted as their own. Not so here. (As a matter of fact on shows like SG-1 the technology was little better than magic and metaphysics with a thin spray paint veneer of pseudo technology. Not so here I suspect, it will be a much grittier, more desperate, survival advantage relationship with technology, less much of the fantasy tech-elements.) Here they may very well find themselves not so much masters of technology, as needing to adapt themselves to the existing technology, or at least to become a sort of biological partner with it. They will also obviously have to concern themselves with basic survival conditions, water, food, shelter, even atmosphere. And eventually they will either have to gain navigational and piloting control of the vessel, or work in cooperation with it to gain supplies.

3. Nobody knows what they are doing or how to go about it. A distinct advantage for this type of show.

4. There is a very muddled chain of command. In all other Stargate shows there is an easy chain of command/chain of expertise narrational path to the stories. In this one one of the main conflicts will be who is in charge, what is each one trying to take charge really attempting to do, and how does each one formulate a different set of objectives as a result. Rush to me is annoying (in a way), he's also extremely interesting because of his own particular motivations. 

(Speaking of which he obviously has motivations beyond the current situation. He obviously hopes to either use the technology of the ancients or the fact that the ship he had hoped to reach was so far displaced in time - remember it is literally in relation to them either billions of years behind or ahead of them in time relative to their point and time of departure - to arrive at a point to correct whatever situation he desires to correct. That he considers tragic from his past. None of the shows in the past ever did a good job of addressing this spatial-temporal displacement problem in relation to ship travel versus Gate travel versus origin points versus destination points, nor did they ever do a good job of coming up with some method to compensate for what would have really happened. It was just assumed everything in background would magically match or align with all time frames rendering a zero-sum misalignment when displacing that much space. I hope this shows will take on those questions in a far more clever and actually - at least for a TV show - scientific manner.)

5. You have a built in conflict of motivations - Exploration versus rescue/retrieval, personal versus group, survival versus adapted advantage, mystery of the situation and what is the mission of the ship versus what the party thinks it is really doing and what they think they need to be doing, a very confused command and objective structure (civilian leadership versus military leadership versus individual initiative versus necessary expertise accommodations - you even have the pre-structured "institutional expert versus the rebel kid/outside the system supposed genius with conflicting motives - though I'm unconvinced as yet the kid is anything more than one trick pony), mystery of the missing crew/or automatic station versus lack of real decay and seemingly constant or perpetual motion between galaxies (something no-one seems to have really commented on or thought about yet, but where is the energy for this machine to operate coming from and considering the huge distances supposedly traveled, what is the real energy source? For that matter if the ship is an automaton then why is it so large (unless it was designed specifically to move beyond normal time/spatial constraints and then be re-crewed at some future or even past time) and why does it even have a life support system? Is it artificially intelligent, has its mission been conscripted or changed over time, have aliens boarded and modified systems, has it had past or will it have future occupants, what is the destination, what are the mission objectives, why is it pursuing that flight path, what was its point of departure, has anything been recorded or logued other than the flight path, and so forth and so on? In this sense the ship itself reminds me both of the Anderson story the Boat of a Million Years, and the actual design of the Egyptian Boat of a Million Years, or Sun-Boat (the feathered rear of the ship especially - which makes me think there is something distinctly non-Ancient about the ship, or that it is a sort of group effort of parties not strictly limited to the Ancients). 

I've hardly enumerated all of the possibilities, just some of the more obvious ones. Personally I liked that it broke with previous Stargate formulations and that it is much darker and much more confused in intention and purpose. 

I'm making a near total assumption here but I'm thinking it might possibly have been designed to explore or scout places for Stargate emplacement or to reach or search out, or maybe it already has, a destination that it is not possible to reach by Stargate. 

I would also be very surprised if in that expanse of time that it would have not been modified by others, maybe even by now, or by design, be Artificially Intelligent it its own right.

Anyway to me, I thought the pilot quite good. 
I'll have to see where it goes but I like the inherent potential.


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 4, 2009)

I liked it a lot.  I knew I was going to like it when I saw the first five minutes with everyone coming through the 'gate in confusion, being hit with flying boxes and other people, shouts of "move to the side!" as the first people through realized the people coming were going to get injured or injure others if people kept lingering just outside the 'gate.

I love survival stories where the characters have to explore and scavenge to survive, and the fact that they couldn't even take for granted the air they were breathing was just excellent.  I hope this show keeps along this same course.

The fact that Destiny is a moving object which apparently has a static gate address (which I think other shows have determined wasn't possible, or at least not feasible) makes me think that perhaps the ship was meant to be staffed the way it was staffed just now.  Maybe it was meant to start off unmanned and its crew would join it while it was already near its destination.

I had a moment, too, when I thought the flying cameras (what did they call them?  Kenos?) might be used to close the door to the shuttle, but I have a feeling that the cameras can't be controlled delicately enough to push a button.  Maybe they're even designed not to collide with objects, so it would've been impossible to make it interact with any controls without taking it apart and doing some re-engineering, which I doubt they had time for.  Making the cameras so that they detect objects and stay X inches away from them seems like a very valid safety feature to build into a flying sensor/camera.  

In any case, I agree that they should've at least mentioned the possibility of using the cameras.  You'd just need ten seconds of dialog: "Can we use the cameras to close it?"  "No, they can't push buttons.  I can't get them to go within six inches of a solid surface.  I think it's a safety feature."


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 4, 2009)

> The fact that Destiny is a moving object which apparently has a static gate address (which I think other shows have determined wasn't possible, or at least not feasible) makes me think that perhaps the ship was meant to be staffed the way it was staffed just now. Maybe it was meant to start off unmanned and its crew would join it while it was already near its destination.




To carry on your observations, there was also no sign of real furniture (for any humanoid type creature) aboard ships. Something I forgot to mention earlier. Walk on any human vessel and furniture is immdiately obvious most places. Especially at command and control centers. People have to sit and monitor and on vessels meant for long term missions, sleep and eat.

Leading me to one of these conclusions. 1. There was never any intention for the ship to be occupied for long periods of time, but rather to be visited intermittently and then abandoned again until the next necessary moment. So no real need for furniture. 2. The furniture has decayed over time, but in a hermetically controlled environment this seems highly improbable - that furniture would have been constructed to intentionally decay over time or that it would be constructed so differently as to decay when other things don't. 3. The furniture is designed to be hidden or regressed when not in use. 4. The furniture was removed when the ship was last abandoned (That is they carry in and remove any unnecessary supplies or goods, which might be explainable by power consumption rates). 5. The furniture was removed by a third patty or someone who found the ship other than the creators/users - this seems possible but unlikely to me unless the third party also removed other things on the ship, modified the ship, or perhaps even sabotaged the ship - it's possible the scrubbers were sabotaged or over extended themselves trying to compensate for losing atmosphere..

My assumptions are that nos. 1, 3, and 4 are the most likely possibilities, with 1 and 3 being my likely favorites. Because the ship has an atmosphere and obviously has controls for necessary human interactions, but no apparent furniture. Meaning no long time or long term crew-interactions. Also I would think that the life-supports systems would operate at null or bare minimum capacity when the ship is not occupied. Meaning to me that the ship was recently occupied, the crew was recently forced to abandon ship, or the ship itself was anticipating occupation, hence the available atmosphere. Meaning it is also possible that the ship either anticipated the arrival of the current crew (the humans) or life support became active immediately once it detected it had been dialed from the outside. But the time frame for that would be short indeed because not only must you compress atmosphere but you would have to generate a lot of heat (heat any occupiable area of the ship). In a space between galaxies or between stars and in motion you couldn't rely upon outside energies sources for much or any supplementary assistance. Meaning that the ship, if it had anticipated the humans, would have had to have done so long before being dialed to bring up enough atmosphere, enough heat, etc. to be useful.

Also one has to consider that they have explored very little of the ship and the ship may not be totally abandoned but has a small reserve crew, possibly in stasis or suspension, or attached to some area of the ship they cannot yet detect or have not noticed. 

The fact that it dropped out of FTL once it was instructed by Rush of the situation makes me think that it is indeed at least partially artificially intelligent. And that it was indeed designed either to emplace or scout for Stargate addresses, or to reach destinations not reachable by Stargates.

Implying one of two possible missions (maybe both, maybe something else, but probably similar). Colonization throughout a cluster of galaxies, maybe any entire section of the universe, and/or exploration well beyond the home galaxy, and to the information to which that might lead.




> I had a moment, too, when I thought the flying cameras (what did they call them? Kenos?) might be used to close the door to the shuttle, but I have a feeling that the cameras can't be controlled delicately enough to push a button. Maybe they're even designed not to collide with objects, so it would've been impossible to make it interact with any controls without taking it apart and doing some re-engineering, which I doubt they had time for. Making the cameras so that they detect objects and stay X inches away from them seems like a very valid safety feature to build into a flying sensor/camera.
> 
> In any case, I agree that they should've at least mentioned the possibility of using the cameras. You'd just need ten seconds of dialog: "Can we use the cameras to close it?" "No, they can't push buttons. I can't get them to go within six inches of a solid surface. I think it's a safety feature."




I thought of that myself. They're spherical (covering at least, the internals may be reconfigurable) making pressing a button on a flat panel nearly impossible (considering the control panel size and the camera size). But they could have tried tying a pen, a pointer, a magnetic arm, etc. to the sphere (as an extended arm with which to press the button), assuming it was not frictionless, which it may have been. It's all moot now, I would tried it, but it was nice to see a Senator actually do something selfless and productive for a change. So, I'm not complaining. 

I think they called the floating cameras Kinos by the way, after, I'm assuming either *this*, or *this*, or *this*. All deal with cameras, lighting for video production, and recording data.

Anyway, nice observations.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 4, 2009)

I enjoyed the show.  I don't expect it to be perfect or for the writers to think of everything because they never do.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Oct 4, 2009)

Merkuri said:


> The fact that Destiny is a moving object which apparently has a static gate address (which I think other shows have determined wasn't possible, or at least not feasible)



I've watched very little Stargate (the movie, a dozen or so scattered episodes), but whoever came up with this idea is... not too bright. Planets move, solar systems move, everything moves - all the time!


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 4, 2009)

> I've watched very little Stargate (the movie, a dozen or so scattered episodes), but whoever came up with this idea is... not too bright. Planets move, solar systems move, everything moves - all the time!




EL, I don't want to put words in anybody's mouth but I think the implication of what was meant was an object moving at Faster than Light hyperspeed velocities. That is a relatively static gate, one at relatively slow motion in normal space-time would be unable to connect with another stargate which was at hyper-velocities relative to itself. 

Which may partially explain why this address has nine chevrons, unlike all of the others. It is unique not only as to destination or end-point, but unique because the end point is moving at FTL speeds relative to all other stargate locations.

Then again we can't really be sure that the ship was indeed at hyperspeed when it took on the human crew. That might have begun shortly after they arrived and before they could verify that they were actually aboard a ship. We just don't really know yet.

But it's an interesting idea to consider given how the stargates normally operated, placed in relatively static locations. We do know that there was an attempt to dial Earth while the ship was at FTL travel, but the attempt failed. Did it fail through lack of power, because it is impossible to lock onto other gates while the ship is at FTL speeds, because Rush had already apprised it of the situation and the ship decided to over-ride any other actions, because Earth was simply out of range, etc? That we don't know yet either. All we really know is that the Earth attempt was aborted due to redirection to another target.

It's also interesting, given the above possibilities, that gate to gate contact at normal spacetime seems to trigger a countdown clock which limits that particular gate to gate contact being open, or the ship remaining in the area, or both. I have some ideas as to why this is, but it will be interesting to see what the crew conjectures it might mean and why things operate like that.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 4, 2009)

I get the vague impression that Jack7 at least is hooked. 

For what its worth, creating a stargate connection between the Pegasus gate and Earth required a large amount of energy. The planet they were on was supposedly a kind of giant reactor fueling the gate, so I take that to mean that they just do not have the energy to dial back to Earth. It's basically a one-way transport unless you bring some kind of Super-ZPM or whatever or your own reactor-planet with you. 

---

Otherwise, I liked it for a start. The atmosphere is different from the other Stargate shows. That might be a problem for the regular SG audience. It certainly makes the show more interesting to me for the moment. It had a vague Battlestar Galactica vibe. More complex relationships, crew conflicts, civillian/military split, bleak situation. 

We'll see if it can keep it up and also maintain its audience. 

...

O'Neill didn't look good. I guess Anderson is getting old.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 4, 2009)

> I get the vague impression that Jack7 at least is hooked.




If you say so, then I Must be. Get it... _Must_... oh well, nevermind. It was Ridcully of me to say that.

Seriously, I really don't know if I'm hooked or not but I can say this: I much prefer fictional media (books, artwork, films, radio plays, graphic novels, etc.) where there are mysteries, where there are no obvious answers or numerous possible answers, or where you have to decipher for yourself what might really be going on - to any media where things are simply presented to you and the authors, writers, artists, etc. just explain things to you as you go along. I guess that's the Dick in me, but I'd much rather do it myself. At one point SG-1 became so formulaic to me, despite the fact that it was often well-written, that the story was basically, _present new object or situation X_, then research and investigate old obscure reference pertaining to X, _*then present explanation A for X so that audience cannot possibly misunderstand exactly what you intend for them to see*_. Then, if no real explanation is available or you're still afraid they won't get it then myth or magic it up so everyone understands this is an analogue for Merlin and Camelot. Get it folks, Merlin = Ancient = Magic = Wunderscience Supersword. Or, Ori = Origin. Thanks guys for the clever tip-off, I wasn't really following you the first time around. It was all sooooo complicated.

I don't mind magic at all, I like myth a lot, but when you turn everything into a "_no need to figure this out, let's just throw in a mythological reference and some magical light effects, and there you go"_ then the story becomes more child's fairy tale with built in crib-notes than modern retelling of ancient myths with magic fairy dust for the wonder of things you can't explain. (I got nothing against magic or not explaining things, but if you're not gonna explain things rationally, then don't turn them into cheap props with stargems and unicorn horns for controls levers either. Just leave them unexplained, and let the consumer make of them what needs to be made.)

I also agree with you and others about the _Battlestar Galactica_ references in many respects. I think that show and _Lost _(and others like them) will have big influences on television and film in the near future, and I'm also hoping SGU will become truly viral in the future adding new dimensions of potential mystery. 

Television is undergoing a renaissance at the moment and is becoming more sophisticated scientifically and psychologically, and is simultaneously becoming deeper and more meaningful mythologically, spiritually, and religiously. 

I also like scientific and technological puzzles. So if they keep this up they may indeed hook me. If they're lucky in the mouth, so I won't blab so much.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm hoping they run into the Furlings.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 5, 2009)

It was very strongly implied that shortly after they gated in, the ship jumped into its ftl mode: the color shift and stretch thing happened shortly after they all boarded, and again right before they stopped at the planet.

I could swear they said (or at least it was conjectured by some character) that the ship was indeed intended to travel really, really far away, and then be later crewed after it had reached something/passed a threshhold/etc. I don't think there's any need to guess at that, it was given to us.


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 5, 2009)

Merkuri said:


> The fact that Destiny is a moving object which apparently has a static gate address (which I think other shows have determined wasn't possible, or at least not feasible)...






Ed_Laprade said:


> I've watched very little Stargate (the movie, a dozen or so scattered episodes), but whoever came up with this idea is... not too bright. Planets move, solar systems move, everything moves - all the time!




In very early episodes they talked on at least one occasion about how they had to use a lot of complex algorithms to take into account the natural movement of stars and planets because they didn't have a DHD (dial-home-device, the thing you punch the gate address into), which did all those calculations in a normal gate, so technically, yes, they can connect to moving gates since all gates move in one way or another.

I was referring to how gates are usually on planets, and that the gate address determines which gate to use by taking six points in space (constellations), drawing lines between them, and using the intersection of those lines, which means that, relative to those constellations, the gate is pretty much static.  It's at least limited to one star system.

I have not watched every single episode, but I've spent the last few months watching up to the end of season 7 of SG-1 on Hulu, and as of that point I believe the only time we ever saw a gate on a ship receive a wormhole was when that ship was in orbit around a planet with a gate address.  The ship-bound gate couldn't establish a wormhole unless it was near a planet that had a gate.  

This doesn't seem to be the case with Destiny.  The gate on that ship seems to be special (as evidenced by the fact that it actually looks different, and that they needed a ninth chevron and a hell of a lot of energy to dial into it).  Somehow the Ancients got it to allow incoming wormholes without them knowing where exactly in space the ship was.  Either that, or the ship was waiting for a crew in that one place for a very very long time, since I seem to recall the gate address for it was very very old.



Fast Learner said:


> I could swear they said (or at least it was conjectured by some character) that the ship was indeed intended to travel really, really far away, and then be later crewed after it had reached something/passed a threshhold/etc. I don't think there's any need to guess at that, it was given to us.




Maybe I just remembered that instead of thinking it up myself.   I can't be expected to keep track of such things. 



Jack7 said:


> To carry on your observations, there was also no sign of real furniture (for any humanoid type creature) aboard ships.




Yes there was.  The two heavily injured characters were in beds.  I believe there were even blankets on the beds.  I seriously doubt a group of people escaping an exploding planet would have through to bring mattresses with them.  I remember the beds because when I saw them I thought, "Wow, I wonder how old those were.  Did the vacuum of space preserve them so they didn't get all moldy and decayed?"  I also recall seeing benches and seats.  Not directly in front of the control panels, but they were there.  I think the observation deck had couches.

There just wasn't any furniture in the gate room, which I think is reasonable.  Especially considering the way everyone entered at the beginning of the show it's probably best to keep the gate room as sparsely furnished as possible.

I think I might actually go back to Hulu and watch the episode again to see if there are any other "clues" to pick up on.   Now _that's_ a sign of a good show if I want to go back and watch it again within days of seeing it the first time.


----------



## Cergorach (Oct 5, 2009)

theT0rmented said:


> So... does everyone in the expedition have the Ancient gene? I thought Ancient technology could only be activated by someone with the gene. It's a lucky thing the senator has the gene...




Three options:
1.) They've perfected a gene therapy, injection and you've got the 'Ancient' gene.
2.) The 'Destiny' is an old ship, a very old ship. Chances are that it was send on it's journey before they equipped all their equipment with gene sensors. Maybe it's only on a couple of very secure systems.
3.) The 'Ancients' assumed that they might not be the race that would be using the 'Destiny', they would Ascent before that or their genes wouldn't be the same by the time they would use the ship.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2009)

Cergorach said:


> Three options:
> 1.) They've perfected a gene therapy, injection and you've got the 'Ancient' gene.



This was happening in SG: Atlantis 

Overall I was happy with it but could not help seeing Rush as Dr. Smith!  He may be an a$$ but why do they distrust him soooo much, sure he keeps things to himself but he also seems to be VERY proactive.  He is a leader, where most of the rest want to debate actions or whine about them. 

I don't think the show will fall into the ST:V rut and hoped they learned lessons from SG: Atlantis.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 5, 2009)

> It was very strongly implied that shortly after they gated in, the ship jumped into its ftl mode: the color shift and stretch thing happened shortly after they all boarded, and again right before they stopped at the planet.




I didn't see this when they first arrived. Of course at that time my wife and kids were watching with me (when it first came on) and so it's possible one of them distracted me so that I didn't notice it. I did notice the waveform distortion at the end, after attempting to dial Earth, so, it would be consistent if it did happen at the beginning also (I take your word it did indeed happen) to think that on both occasions the ship was at normal space-time in order to make use of the Stargates. In that case it would mean the ship does apparently have to be at normal space-time to use the stargate. That would also be consistent with previous other shows, but, it still doesn't preclude FTL use of the stargate, just makes it unlikely it operates any differently based on what we now know.




> I could swear they said (or at least it was conjectured by some character) that the ship was indeed intended to travel really, really far away, and then be later crewed after it had reached something/passed a threshhold/etc. I don't think there's any need to guess at that, it was given to us.




I didn't hear this either, but, there were a couple of times I walked outside during the show, mainly around commercial times, because we had a full moon. I was toying with the idea of setting my telescope up and moon-gazing then, but thought the show was good enough to skip it for one night. So I didn't, but I guess it's possible I missed this conjecture while I was outside.

If it was conjectured by one of the characters (anyone know who or at what time in the show - I would like to know who said it, in what context, and what exactly they suggested - hopefully I can see this in rerun sometime) then it would be a logical conjecture, given the other evidence, and I would agree with them. It seems the most likely possibility. (I hope though it will be remembered it is, like my deductions, and the deductions of others, just a character conjecture based on the best available evidence at the moment. A likely, though not necessarily the only explanation, and certainly not the truth - that won't be known until other evidence is gathered or discovered. And I hope this show continues to follow the path of best conjecture or best possible conjectures, rather than trying to explain everything all at once. In far too many television shows the first suggestion or conjecture is just assumed to be correct, handed to the audience as the way things really are and the plot proceeds from that point on as if the initial conjecture was necessarily the only or the only correct one. It's a juvenile, even child-like way to describe problems - especially when operating within a totally alien or unknown environment - because very rarely does it happen that way in real life. It's a way for the writer to "project what he knows" through the character without any real reason for the character to really know that thing, merely because the writer doesn't want to take the time to describe events in enough detail to fully explain the real situation. I hope instead that they will discover situations and problems, consider possibilities, gather evidence, make conjectures, and discard possibilities as it becomes apparent their initial speculations were incorrect, or at best only partially correct. Which illustrates for me what also bothers me about too many television dramas, only rarely are main characters or "smart characters" seen to be wrong in a particular situation, or to have drawn the wrong conclusions, even though it is quite justifiable for them to do so given the circumstances. Stargate Atlantis, which I liked, was nevertheless especially egregious about this regarding their smart-guy and super-dooper scientist. But real scientists are never this way, and neither, generally speaking, are smart people. Being wrong is a necessary part of becoming smarter in real life. I wish more fiction writers understood that. Instead they far too often make the smart guys or the problem solvers always or very nearly always right the first time, when that almost never really happens in life. The smart guys are just the ones who won't quit when others do, or are willing to consider all possibilities when others won't. And they learn just as much from mistakes as they do from successes.)

But the idea of the waiting starship, or the starship in situ, does have a number of problems that will also need to be addressed. Like if the ship is only visited rarely then why was the life-support operational just coincidentally when the humans boarded (unless it was being tested or prepped to receive a crew, and if so, then tested by whom, and where is that crew)? Otherwise it would be a large waste of energy to run it constantly. Why was it inactive (as to motion), but had an active life-support system? Was it long abandoned - after all the assumed builders are long gone for the most part - and just sitting dead in space, but with the life support still active? That's an illogical means of operating considering power consumption rates, unless the crew had abandoned ship in an emergency and the ship had expected them to return quickly.

Another thing that is bothersome is this - was this the only type of ship like this? Was it a prototype or unique ship design, so that only one was ever built? I mention that because of the fact that as far as anyone knows yet there was only one gate and one gate location capable of dialing the ship. Why? That's incredibly risky if the ship is unique or a prototype because if anything happens to the one gate then you have in effect lost not only your means of boarding the ship, but also presumably your means of contacting an unmanned ship. If it was a manned ship then this would demand other gates so that you would have safe means of retrieving your crew if necessary. Otherwise lost or even just malfunctioning home gate and you've no way of direct contact with ship gate, and the suggestion thus far is that ship gate is ranged when dialing out. (Meaning home gate somehow picks up the slack on return gate voyages back home, or the ship as we know it is barely functioning at real capacity because of real damage or because it is simply just not fully active, or Rush is lying about on-board ship capabilities. Maybe all of those.) Surely, just as a security precaution, if you went to such expense to build such a vessel, and the mission was important at all, you would have built in redundancy means of reestablishing contact through other gates.

If there are other ships of this type or class, undertaking similar missions then naturally you could not risk them all being accessed by a single, unique stargate. That would be extremely risky. A real security threat. Either way I would not risk access to either a unique prototype or a fleet of ships through a single access point. I guess they (the writers) could say the one location for the nine chevron stargate has very unique properties, but in all of the universe, including all of the other galaxies visited by this one ship, they could not replicate conditions enough that they could only build the one peculiar portal? It seems very unlikely to me. Even more than one "Atlantis" was built, for obvious reasons. I'd build in more than one method of accessing such a ship. Even if I only built one such ship.




> 2.) The 'Destiny' is an old ship, a very old ship. Chances are that it was send on it's journey before they equipped all their equipment with gene sensors. Maybe it's only on a couple of very secure systems.
> 3.) The 'Ancients' assumed that they might not be the race that would be using the 'Destiny', they would Ascent before that or their genes wouldn't be the same by the time they would use the ship.




Interesting conjectures. For one thing they might have very well anticipated human occupation if no. 3 is correct. Something I intuitively feel is a real possibility, I just have no evidence to support the idea. I cannot say why exactly but I just feel as if either the builders, or the users, or the ship itself was anticipating the human occupation.

If 3 is not correct then where are the users of the ship, and how long ago did they make last contact. And if the mission of the ship was to place stargates in other galaxies then, and Earth was the ship departure point (I think someone aboard ship suggested it was - Rush?) then was Earth the real departure point or merely the first plotted colonization point on the starmap they accessed? (Did Rush assume the starchart he examined was the only starchart or navigational chart or the first one and that meant Earth was the departure point? If it was then was the ship built there? )

The show has a number of interesting possibilities as far as the storyline goes. I hope they continue to unfold more mysteries as often as they start reducing others.

Well, I've got to prep for flight training. See you guys later.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2009)

> If it was conjectured by one of the characters (anyone know who or at what time in the show - I would like to know who said it...



Rush said it. 


> But the idea of the waiting starship, or the starship in situ, does have a number of problems that will also need to be addressed. Like if the ship is only visited rarely then why was the life-support operational just coincidentally when the humans boarded (unless it was being tested or prepped to receive a crew, and if so, then tested by whom, and where is that crew)?



My thoughts on this is that the ship was contacted, turned on life-support and dropped out of FTL to receive the crew.  Once crew is on board, back to mission.  Crew then looks at stuff, tells the computer, do what they can then gate back to the planet.  

I also feel that the ship should have first generation, low-level replicators on board.  They just do not have the supplies for repairs or have not been turned on!  

Rush also said there were a number of robot ships sent out ahead of the ship to seed planets with gates.  Figure this will tell us how humans get out there, the ship is just a stepping stone.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 5, 2009)

> Rush said it.




Thanks, it figures. I suspect he either knows a lot more than it appears, has already thought about a number of likely possibilities, or already had some idea of where the gate would lead.




> I also feel that the ship should have first generation, low-level replicators on board. They just do not have the supplies for repairs or have not been turned on!
> 
> Rush also said there were a number of robot ships sent out ahead of the ship to seed planets with gates. Figure this will tell us how humans get out there, the ship is just a stepping stone.




That, or the ship itself has AI. I did consider the replicator idea, and thought it possible regarding machine part repair, general maintenance, and maybe even creating furniture whenever needed. The cameras (Kinos) made me think about the replicators. 

If they do have replicators then for some reason they are not functioning properly or are primitive as you suggest, or otherwise they would have already repaired the damaged shuttle. Maybe they have to be purposely programmed or directed for each task. Like the Kinos apparently have to be.

If they do have them and can get them to work then that will possibly solve their atmosphere/life support problem.  Well, back to work for me.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 5, 2009)

Jack7 said:


> Thanks, it figures. I suspect he either knows a lot more than it appears, has already thought about a number of likely possibilities, or already had some idea of where the gate would lead.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




that or there are not any raw material on ship for the them to work with.  that could be why a planet of sand was the first it stopped at, looking for silicon!


----------



## Rykion (Oct 5, 2009)

Rush says right after mentioning that the ship's name is Destiny that the ship was never crewed.  He says the ancients were going to crew it through the Stargate once it was out far enough.  It's unclear if this is partly conjecture or is all concrete info from his data searches.  He believes they learned to ascend before the ship reached the point they would Stargate to.  

The scenes shot in Kino view really give the impression of something watching, not just automated cameras.  I'd like to see the ship's AI become a main character, but in a subtle way.  Kind of like the TARDIS rather than Cortana from HALO.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 5, 2009)

Merkuri said:


> I have not watched every single episode, but I've spent the last few months watching up to the end of season 7 of SG-1 on Hulu, and as of that point I believe the only time we ever saw a gate on a ship receive a wormhole was when that ship was in orbit around a planet with a gate address.  The ship-bound gate couldn't establish a wormhole unless it was near a planet that had a gate.




There's a bit more of this in SG:A, for various reasons.  To sum up, it seems to be that it's linked to the presence of a DHD, rather than a specific place.  That's why Ra could bring a second stargate to Earth, and be able to use it.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 5, 2009)

Rykion said:


> The scenes shot in Kino view really give the impression of something watching, not just automated cameras.  I'd like to see the ship's AI become a main character, but in a subtle way.  Kind of like the TARDIS rather than Cortana from HALO.




Excellent analogy with the TARDIS, that would be perfect. Just enough intelligence for it to be something that both occasionally gives a helping hand and occasionally gets in the way, but is never a full-fledged character and can't be relied upon for deus ex machina plot solutions.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 5, 2009)

> Rush says right after mentioning that the ship's name is Destiny that the ship was never crewed. He says the ancients were going to crew it through the Stargate once it was out far enough. It's unclear if this is partly conjecture or is all concrete info from his data searches. He believes they learned to ascend before the ship reached the point they would Stargate to.




That would explain why I didn't know the name of the ship either. Wonder how he got the name? Made it up, read it on  panel or control board, the ship told him, previous research?




> The scenes shot in Kino view really give the impression of something watching, not just automated cameras. I'd like to see the ship's AI become a main character, but in a subtle way. Kind of like the TARDIS rather than Cortana from HALO.




I agree with FL, that's a good way to handle it. Though I'd also like to see the ship's AI evolve over time, assuming it has any. I've also considered that it would be interesting if the ship had its own agenda, or if the AI was implanted, or at least a separate AI implant had been established by aliens who had previously encountered the ship.

Many years ago I ran a Star Fleet Battles/Role Play set of games once with a Federation Battleship called the _Napoleon_ that became self-aware through alien intervention. The entire surface of the ship, not just the computers were housing for the AI.

It was extremely interesting the way the crew, and later on the Federation and other aliens interacted with the ship, and sometimes how they acted at odds with one another. In a frontiers/no rescue situation like SGU, that kinda thing would be even more interesting and problematic.




> that or there are not any raw material on ship for the them to work with. that could be why a planet of sand was the first it stopped at, looking for silicon!




That's a clever observation and idea. The ship scavenges for raw materials. It's how I'd do it in a totally unknown, alien, frontiers environment.


----------



## Rykion (Oct 5, 2009)

Jack7 said:


> That would explain why I didn't know the name of the ship either. Wonder how he got the name? Made it up, read it on  panel or control board, the ship told him, previous research?



The scene starts about an hour and 17 minutes into the show on Hulu.  Rush is talking to Eli and mentions he has been doing data searches to try to learn how to fix life support.  He had no luck finding that info, but found the ship's name.


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 6, 2009)

Hand of Evil said:


> This was happening in SG: Atlantis
> 
> Overall I was happy with it but could not help seeing Rush as Dr. Smith!  He may be an a$$ but why do they distrust him soooo much, sure he keeps things to himself but he also seems to be VERY proactive.  He is a leader, where most of the rest want to debate actions or whine about them.
> 
> I don't think the show will fall into the ST:V rut and hoped they learned lessons from SG: Atlantis.




He's a secretive ass, which naturally engenders dislike and distrust.  And then, at the beginning, he dials the "ninth chevron" INSTEAD of dialing Earth!  He chooses scientific curiosity over human lives.  And he continues to be secretive ass who comforts a young woman who just lost her father with, "You should be proud, he died for science!" (heavily paraphrased)

The character is a jackass . . . and I love it!!!  Quite a bit of a different tone than earlier Stargate shows!


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 6, 2009)

Rush did have a (claimed) reason for not dialing Earth -- the planet was about to explode, and he didn't want to risk letting the blast be gated back to Earth. IIRC, Rush had a scene of staring at a photos, which seems to imply some hidden background element -- lost love or the like. I'm also curious to see if anyone actually put him in charge or not. 

I thought about the use-the-camera-to-close-the-door thing; however, Eli didn't seem to have any particularly fine control over the device. It mostly just floated at a more-or-less static altitude, and either followed him, or (the first camera he turned loose) went along its way with little or no input from him. So I assume they can't control the kinos well enough to hit the switch. 

(Also, when Eli said he called 'em kinos, he mentioned something about Russian -- google says "kino" [or "Кино́"] is Russian for cinema.)

I was (pleasantly) surprised that the air supply problem wasn't solved at the end of the two hours.


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Oct 6, 2009)

I have a lot of opinions for this show, but I'm only really going to share one, aside from the fact that I really liked it.

When we first met Dr Weir we hated her, by the end we loved her.
When we first met Rodney McKay we hated him, by the end he was one of our favorite characters.
When we first met The EMH we didn't much like him either, but by the end he started to grow on us.
When we first met Dr Rush we pretty much hated him too......well, you get the idea.

If they can do that again, and again, introduce a character so easy to hate, and through long term character development make them someone you really enjoy then this is going to be another kick arse series!


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 6, 2009)

BrooklynKnight said:


> When we first met Dr Weir we hated her, by the end we loved her.
> When we first met Rodney McKay we hated him, by the end he was one of our favorite characters.
> When we first met The EMH we didn't much like him either, but by the end he started to grow on us.
> When we first met Dr Rush we pretty much hated him too......well, you get the idea.




Speak for yourself - I liked Weir immediately, hated the EMH by the end, and could never stand McKay.


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 6, 2009)

coyote6 said:


> Rush did have a (claimed) reason for not dialing Earth -- the planet was about to explode, and he didn't want to risk letting the blast be gated back to Earth.




Well yeah, Rush came right out and stated why he did what he did.  He felt, probably correctly, that this was the last chance for Earth to ever figure out where the ninth chevron dials to, dial it, and go there.  But he made the decision to continue the scientific experiment INSTEAD of saving the lives of not just military personnel, not just other scientists on the project, but civilians too.

Commander Young ordered the gate techs to dial Earth to save the lives of the people on the base.  Rush countermanded that order, and had the techs dial the ninth chevron, not knowing where it led, if people could survive there, and if they could get home to Earth again.

Classic example of scientist so driven he puts his research above human lives.  That's why nobody trusts him.  But they realize they need him, and that brings a lot of tension.

_Edit:  Oops, somehow I missed the part in your post about the energy from the exploding planet reaching Earth through the gate.  Rush did say that to defend his actions, and he might even be right.  But due to how he goes about it and relates to the other survivors, people still don't trust him._


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 6, 2009)

Jack7 said:


> But the idea of the waiting starship, or the starship in situ, does have a number of problems that will also need to be addressed. Like if the ship is only visited rarely then why was the life-support operational just coincidentally when the humans boarded (unless it was being tested or prepped to receive a crew, and if so, then tested by whom, and where is that crew)?




I think it fits the theory that the ship was sent out unmanned and was designed to wait at a certain point where the ninth chevron address could reach it.  My guess is that when it got to that point it started up the life support.  If it was expected to be unmanned for a long period of time then yes, it would be stupid to have life support active for all that time, but to go from no life support to a fully breathable atmosphere would probably take a while, especially on a ship that big, so the plan was probably to get the ship in place, turn on the life support and let it fill the ship for a few months/years (however long it takes) then gate in the crew.  Except the "get in the crew" part took much much longer than expected and the life support ran itself to death.

As far as "where is the real crew", I think it was established that the Ancients ascended before they could crew the ship.  If you're not familiar with the SG mythos, the Ancients were a race of humanoids (they may have been actual humans, I don't remember exactly) with a lot of technological knowhow.  They created the gate network and seeded the galaxy with gates.  Then at one point they became "enlightened" and ascended to another plane of being where their consciousness no longer needed a physical body.  They still exist, but they no longer care about the toils of puny humans or others that still have physical form (well, most of them don't care, anyway).



Jack7 said:


> ...as far as anyone knows yet there was only one gate and one gate location capable of dialing the ship.




I don't think the gate was special.  And I seem to recall that the gate wasn't even on that planet to begin with (but I may be making that up, I haven't re-watched the show yet) but we put it there to take advantage of the energy the planet made available.

I do remember clearly that this was NOT the location that the "ninth chevron" gate address was originally designed to dial FROM.  Remember that it didn't work until they put in Earth's "origin" symbol.  The address was designed to have been dialed from Earth, not from that planet they were on.

I believe the idea was that the Ancients had plenty of energy at their disposal when they were in their prime.  Human beings had to find some planet on the edge of radioactive explosion in order to gather that sort of energy, but the Ancients had it on Earth at one time, or at least they expected to have it.



Jack7 said:


> That would explain why I didn't know the name of the ship either. Wonder how he got the name? Made it up, read it on  panel or control board, the ship told him, previous research?




He was doing research in the ship's computer, saying he was either looking for ways to turn on the life support or dial earth (I forget which one, it may have been both) but he doesn't seem extremely trustworthy so far so who knows what he was really doing.  At that point he said he found out the ship was named Destiny.  I think that was the same time he said the ship was designed to go out un-crewed and receive its crew later.

I think that was also the same time when he "told" the ship they were in trouble to get it to stop and open the gate.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 6, 2009)

> The scene starts about an hour and 17 minutes into the show on Hulu. Rush is talking to Eli and mentions he has been doing data searches to try to learn how to fix life support. He had no luck finding that info, but found the ship's name.




I finally got to see it last night at dinner-time in rerun. I noticed some other things. Rush is really doing a lot right, or is at least really trying to do what it is suggested by others he attempt. You can see it in his expressions, and then later something happens that someone else had mentioned needed to happen, but Rush takes no direct credit for it.




> I think it fits the theory that the ship was sent out unmanned and was designed to wait at a certain point where the ninth chevron address could reach it. My guess is that when it got to that point it started up the life support. If it was expected to be unmanned for a long period of time then yes, it would be stupid to have life support active for all that time, but to go from no life support to a fully breathable atmosphere would probably take a while, especially on a ship that big, so the plan was probably to get the ship in place, turn on the life support and let it fill the ship for a few months/years (however long it takes) then gate in the crew. Except the "get in the crew" part took much much longer than expected and the life support ran itself to death.




I think that's about right if the ship were programmed or expected to reach a point and then await occupants. It would have to be timed really well though so as not to consume a whole lot of unnecessary power. But why the ship damage? Possibly damaged along the way, attacked, or it had been occupied, maybe even sabotaged. It also seems strange to me that large sections of the ship seem inaccessible. 

As if intentionally blocked off. And the damage to the shuttle and the open doorway to that shuttle area. If the shuttle had been damaged by disaster or attack from outside then the door should have either been damaged from the outside, crumpled or blown inwards, or simply still shut. Yet the door was open as if someone from inside had tried to access the shuttle. (Maybe if the ship was invaded or boarded the ship tried a ploy, to lure someone to the shuttle bay to expel them. but it all seems far more leaky either the ship itself were opening and shutting doors - maybe a lot because the mechanism was damaged or worn, or maybe had sabotaged itself, or maybe someone else had - but the pattern is one of internal occupancy. I can see a breach being made to the outside of the ship then entrance from outside by opening the internal door from outside. But that would mean either blowing the door, and it wasn't blown, or, someone had control access. But the ship itself, well, you don't open and shut doors, or leave them halfway open if your intent is to secure the ship, and you don't expose atmospheric leaks, you seal them. And you don't close off parts of the ship if you're simply expecting your normal crew to arrive. Something occurred in the intervening time and positioning of the ship. Something that looks at least very much like an intentional breach, an invasion, or a boarding.)




> I don't think the gate was special. And I seem to recall that the gate wasn't even on that planet to begin with (but I may be making that up, I haven't re-watched the show yet) but we put it there to take advantage of the energy the planet made available.




I don't know about special, but when watched in rerun Rush said the gate was unique, several times. But he also made an interesting comment which I caught the second time around. He said, "that gate (the gate they dialed from) was the only way to dial this ship from our galaxy." (I'm paraphrasing I think.) Take that for what you will, but I suspect he choose his words carefully. I suspect he meant that only specific gates can dial into the ship. That's why the countdown. The ship has to make the contact, not the other gate from the other side. So the on-board gate has to remain open the entire time (using a lot of energy), if the connection is broken then the other gate probably can't re-establish the connection by itself. Most gates can't even receive from the ship (that part is entirely speculation based on just one bit of evidence), that's why the ship choose one gate out of five, and why Rush insisted they take that gate. The ship chooses what it knows it can work, of course it may also choose for other reasons as well, such as crew-need (which shows at least a rudimentary form of AI, as well as rudimentary Intel gathering capabilities and/or an established database, meaning it's sent Kinos through or someone else has fed it data or explored off of the ship before). So it takes a completely unique nine chevron gate to dial into the ship. But he also said from our galaxy. Leading me to conclude that other galaxies might also have gates capable of dialing into the gate. Instead of just receiving from it.

Another odd thing I noticed. No furniture except on what they call the observation deck, and that looked more like a dining area. I'm not quite sure what to make of what that implies yet. No control area furniture, but standard, not regressed or missing or hidden eating (or very small, bare meeting/drinking tables) in one room. For a huge ship it looked like eating tables for maybe eight or ten people. Thats' very odd. Of course we don't know the layout of the rest of the ship yet. And we don't know the habits and customs of the designers. Maybe they didn't use much furniture. Maybe they reclined to eat, or slept on the floor. Just don't know yet.

I still didn't get to see in rerun the original wave function disruption that would mean the ship started FTL after the crew arrived. I saw it too late. And I guess we can't really know any of these things for sure until more evidence develops and more of the ship and background is exposed. Right now though I'm gonna say the on-board ship cannot receive or send in FTL, that entirely unique gates are needed to dial into it, that it was boarded at one time, and that it has some kinda on-board AI, or at least a remote controlled one. I'm also not sure one way or another whether the other parts of the ship are occupied, and if so by whom. But right now I'm gonna say it looks like someone else has been aboard at least at some time in the past.

For now though I'm just fishing though. We'll learn as it goes along I reckon.




> (Also, when Eli said he called 'em kinos, he mentioned something about Russian -- google says "kino" [or "Кино́"] is Russian for cinema.)




That's an interesting observation. Very probable too if he mentioned Russian (you guys with good hearing probably heard a lot in the dialogue I can't). Eli looks like the kinda guy who would know what's for about Russian cinema.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 6, 2009)

Jack7 said:


> I finally got to see it last night at dinner-time in rerun. I noticed some other things. Rush is really doing a lot right, or is at least really trying to do what it is suggested by others he attempt. You can see it in his expressions, and then later something happens that someone else had mentioned needed to happen, but Rush takes no direct credit for it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



He explicitely mentioned Russian, but Kino is also the German word for cinema.


----------



## Rykion (Oct 6, 2009)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> He explicitely mentioned Russian, but Kino is also the German word for cinema.



I don't think the reference is just about the word for cinema.  The show's Kinos look like little mechanical eyes.  Russian documentarian Dziga Vertov created the concept of a "Kino-eye."  From wiki he is quoted as saying  "I am an eye. I am a mechanical eye. I, a machine, I am showing you a world, the likes of which only I can see" Dziga Vertov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It's really an unusual reference for Eli to be making and for Lt. Scott to just nod like he understands.  Of course Scott might just be nodding to get Eli to explain about the Kinos rather than Russian filmmaking.


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 7, 2009)

I'm re-watching it now, and I just realized that Rush had glasses that broke when he boarded the Destiny.  As a glasses-wearer myself I gotta say that must absolutely suck for him.  I hope they're a light prescription.  If that happened to me on my way to a place where I might never be able to get glasses again, I don't know what I'd do.  I'd be completely useless.  I wouldn't be able to recognize people's faces until they were within about five feet of me.




Jack7 said:


> It would have to be timed really well though so as not to consume a whole lot of unnecessary power.




I think that was the intent.  But it didn't work out as planned.



Jack7 said:


> It also seems strange to me that large sections of the ship seem inaccessible. As if intentionally blocked off.




Well, obviously something happened to the ship between Earth and where the Earth folks met up with it.  The ship seems to have intelligence of some sort, so it doesn't seem unreasonable that it would try to seal itself off from damage, trying to protect the still habitable sections of the ship.  I think this type of thing is even possible with normal real-world technology.  You detect a loss of pressure and you start to seal hatches.  I think a lot of real-world ships do this when they detect water inside the hull to try to limit the amount of water getting in.




Jack7 said:


> And the damage to the shuttle and the open doorway to that shuttle area. If the shuttle had been damaged by disaster or attack from outside then the door should have either been damaged from the outside, crumpled or blown inwards, or simply still shut. Yet the door was open as if someone from inside had tried to access the shuttle.




There were two doors there.  It looked to me like one of the doors (the one that was half-open) was damaged enough to prevent it from closing, but the door on to the shuttle itself was open at the time of the attack, so it was protected from damage.




Jack7 said:


> But the ship itself, well, you don't open and shut doors, or leave them halfway open if your intent is to secure the ship, and you don't expose atmospheric leaks, you seal them. And you don't close off parts of the ship if you're simply expecting your normal crew to arrive. Something occurred in the intervening time and positioning of the ship. Something that looks at least very much like an intentional breach, an invasion, or a boarding.)




It looks to me like it intended to close off all leaks.  I think they said the only leak left was from the shuttle, whose door seems to have been damaged.  I highly doubt the ship's intention was to only half-shut that door.

And why would you not close off parts of the ship that are damaged if you're expecting crew?  You don't want that crew to get sucked out of hull breaches.  Better to amputate the limb (or seal off parts of the ship) than sacrifice the whole body (or ship).




Jack7 said:


> He said, "that gate (the gate they dialed from) was the only way to dial this ship from our galaxy."




Because of the unique properties of the planet it was on, not the gate itself.  And they needed the planet for the power requirements.  It's true that that was probably the only gate in the galaxy capable of dialing the Destiny, but only because it was the only gate supplied with enough power.  If they could generate this much power on another planet (like Earth) then they could dial Destiny again.




Jack7 said:


> Another odd thing I noticed. No furniture except on what they call the observation deck, and that looked more like a dining area.




Again, there were beds.  And benches against the walls in some of the other rooms.  I'm not surprised that the control panels had no chairs.  There are some modern ships and control areas that prefer their operators to stand while on duty.  Helps keep them awake.  I think it shows that it was designed for those working to have little distractions, but there were still comfortable areas (like the observation deck) for people off duty.



Jack7 said:


> Right now though I'm gonna say the on-board ship cannot receive or send in FTL, that entirely unique gates are needed to dial into it, that it was boarded at one time, and that it has some kinda on-board AI, or at least a remote controlled one. I'm also not sure one way or another whether the other parts of the ship are occupied, and if so by whom. But right now I'm gonna say it looks like someone else has been aboard at least at some time in the past.




I don't see any evidence of past boarding.  My guess is that the ship was attacked in passing, maybe because it passed near a civilization that didn't know what it was and decided to attack first and ask questions later.  I highly doubt there's anything living still on the ship.  Why would it have let the life support get so run down?

The ship definitely has some sort of AI, but it may just be the rudimentary AI we have nowadays, not anything lifelike.  

I will say it's reasonable to say the ship cannot establish a wormhole (incoming or outgoing) when in FTL.


Watching the beginning again, the way Rush walks up the stairs and looks out on the confusion of everyone pouring through the gate makes me think he had some idea already of what was beyond the ninth chevron.  I think we'll find out in later episodes that he knew much more than he was letting on.

They also mention around the middle of the show (end of part 1, I presume) that they don't know how the go'auld found the base where they were attempting to dial the ninth chevron.  Dare I suggest that Rush tipped them off, knowing it would force an evacuation to the Destiny, assuming he could get it open?  I don't know enough about his character yet to say whether he's capable of such a thing.  If he did do it, though, he probably believes he did it for some greater good.

Edit: Regarding furniture, there's a chair in one of the bedrooms and one in the room where Eli found the Kinos.  When we look through the first Kino you can see chairs and tables behind them.

Edit2: I also noticed that the button to open and close the shuttle door is a touchpad.  It may require a human finger to operate it, something with body heat.  They might require these so that things can't fall on the panel and accidentally open the door.  A pencil strapped to a kino, even if it could be controlled well enough, might not be able to hit the appropriate combination.


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 7, 2009)

Re: Rush & his glasses -- yeah, when he was looking at the roster of people onboard, he was holding it so he could see it properly. IIRC, it was down low, so he's farsighted, apparently.

I think the ship's story is that it was set up by the Ancients as a long-term, long-range exploration project. They sent out unmanned robotic probes across the universe to find habitable planets and seed Stargates. Then they sent out the Destiny, with a special long-range gate. When Destiny got to the far galaxies, they planned to dial it up, gate in, and explore the universe beyond their normal range.

However, they ascended before the Destiny got there, so they never signed on for the tour. And for all the eons since, the Destiny has been touring the universe, like an automated express train with no passengers. The humans happened to catch it, but the gate home is kablooey, and now they're stuck on the train. They can hop off at the stops, but they have no control over the course.

(In other words, the adventure's a real railroad. )

Part of that is conjecture, and part is hazy memory of stuff I read about it months ago. No idea how much is memory, and how much is made up by me.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 7, 2009)

I'll return to this in a few days or so guys. Right now I have a case and some other work to take care of. Hopefully this weekend I can see the next episode and will know some more.

Some of your speculations are real interesting (I especially liked the Russian filmmaker - mechanical eye thing), but I guess no matter how much we thresh it out we won't know some things til it happens.

See ya later.


----------



## Mark (Oct 7, 2009)

I very much enjoyed the beginning of this new series and look forward to more of it.




Rykion said:


> I don't think the reference is just about the word for cinema.  The show's Kinos look like little mechanical eyes.  Russian documentarian Dziga Vertov created the concept of a "Kino-eye."  From wiki he is quoted as saying  "I am an eye. I am a mechanical eye. I, a machine, I am showing you a world, the likes of which only I can see" Dziga Vertov - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It's really an unusual reference for Eli to be making and for Lt. Scott to just nod like he understands.  Of course Scott might just be nodding to get Eli to explain about the Kinos rather than Russian filmmaking.





It is also the Yidish word for movies.  Eli might have (or have had) a grandparent or great grandparent from Europe.


----------



## Rykion (Oct 7, 2009)

Mark said:


> It is also the Yidish word for movies.  Eli might have (or have had) a grandparent or great grandparent from Europe.



Eli specifically says "It's a flying camera.  I'm calling it a kino, you know, from the Russian."  

This bit on page 41 from Vertov's writing really seems to fit with the kinos on the show, and the general set up of the show itself.  Kino-eye: the writings of Dziga Vertov - Google Books


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Oct 7, 2009)

I watched it on Hulu last night. What a crock of sh*t! If there are any 'answers' to the many questions others have brought up about the show, I'm sure they won't make any sense at all. They should have let the senator's daughter kill Russ. Especially after he said he wasn't responsible for them being there. I'd have shot the lying sack of sh*t in the b*lls, then in the head. 

Of course, that was after no one checked with Earth after he told them he had. What a bunch of morons!


----------



## Mark (Oct 7, 2009)

Are the communications stones one-use-only?


----------



## Rykion (Oct 7, 2009)

Mark said:


> Are the communications stones one-use-only?



I don't know that it has ever been said.  I can't think of any stone that has been shown to be used multiple times though.  I could be wrong as I haven't seen every episode of SG-1 or SG:A.  They have more than one stone, so they can definitely still contact Earth.  They probably wouldn't want to waste them if they're one use though.  

I'd keep them away from Dr. Rush, that's for sure.


----------



## Mistwell (Oct 7, 2009)

Jack7 said:


> To carry on your observations, there was also no sign of real furniture (for any humanoid type creature) aboard ships.




Yes there was.  There were several pieces of furniture, including a built in leather cushy bench at the front of the ship (nobody sat in it, but it was there to the side).


----------



## theT0rmented (Oct 8, 2009)

Mark said:


> Are the communications stones one-use-only?




In one episode of SG-1, O'Neill has visions from the same man (Episode named _Citizen Joe_, Season 8) for 7 years. I'd say that's more than 1 use.


----------



## Mark (Oct 8, 2009)

theT0rmented said:


> In one episode of SG-1, O'Neill has visions from the same man (Episode named _Citizen Joe_, Season 8) for 7 years. I'd say that's more than 1 use.





Ah, yes.  I do recall that now.  I suppose they have more than one so that they can send a team.  I also surmise this was a planned thing, since they had Dr Lee seemingly on standby with a receiving stone (do they work both ways?), with a camera rolling on him and an armed guard at the ready.

So why be stingy with them?  Why not send Lt. or someone to verify things and keep the chain of sommand more clear?  It was the Col. who dumped his backpack rations to make room for the stones originally, right?  And Needlenose who swiped them while the Col. was out of commission?  If they are a two-way street, why not have someone from home embody someone on the ship and give orders directly?


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 8, 2009)

Mark said:


> If they are a two-way street, why not have someone from home embody someone on the ship and give orders directly?




Hmm, maybe they did that already......

Nah, Rush was the only one who they could've impersonated, and if he was being controlled by somebody else, they did a pretty good Russ-impression.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 8, 2009)

Merkuri said:


> Hmm, maybe they did that already......
> 
> Nah, Rush was the only one who they could've impersonated, and if he was being controlled by somebody else, they did a pretty good Russ-impression.




I think there were five stones, I figure this was a way for them to have SG1 make guess appearances on the show!


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 8, 2009)

Mark said:


> Ah, yes.  I do recall that now.  I suppose they have more than one so that they can send a team.  I also surmise this was a planned thing, since they had Dr Lee seemingly on standby with a receiving stone (do they work both ways?), with a camera rolling on him and an armed guard at the ready.
> 
> So why be stingy with them?  Why not send Lt. or someone to verify things and keep the chain of sommand more clear?  It was the Col. who dumped his backpack rations to make room for the stones originally, right?  And Needlenose who swiped them while the Col. was out of commission?  If they are a two-way street, why not have someone from home embody someone on the ship and give orders directly?




I'm not familiar with the alien devices (didn't watch a lot of past Stargate shows), but I'm assuming that one has to have them ready to receive to get taken over -- last we saw of them, they were packed in the box. I assumed that everyone who knew how to use the alien artifacts was too busy or didn't have a chance to use them to check in. Besides, they basically ignored Rush's alleged orders putting him in charge anyways, and just went on to try to save themselves. They can call in when they aren't less than 24 hours from smothering, eh?

As far as I can tell, there are only two military officers aboard: the Colonel (who was injured & out of it most of the time) and the Lt (who was busy doing stuff, and probably not trained on how to use the gizmos anyways). Out of the rest, the woman from the IOA seems to be the highest placed person. Everybody else is basically a goon, or Hapless Bystander. I think that's part of the show's premise, really -- these aren't actually the people supposed to be on this mission.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 9, 2009)

Of note to the "has the life support been on all this time" questioners, it's worth noting that the opening credits are of the Destiny coming to life, lights coming on bit by by and what looks like air flowing, etc. Then the gate starts spinning, activates, and people come flying through. Implying, anyway, that activation (perhaps the first failed one) signaled to the ship to turn on life support.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 9, 2009)

Fast Learner said:


> Of note to the "has the life support been on all this time" questioners, it's worth noting that the opening credits are of the Destiny coming to life, lights coming on bit by by and what looks like air flowing, etc. Then the gate starts spinning, activates, and people come flying through. Implying, anyway, that activation (perhaps the first failed one) signaled to the ship to turn on life support.



Yep, that's how I saw and understood it, too. The gate activation started life support and ended the FTL flight.


----------



## Jack7 (Oct 9, 2009)

> Of note to the "has the life support been on all this time" questioners, it's worth noting that the opening credits are of the Destiny coming to life, lights coming on bit by by and what looks like air flowing, etc. Then the gate starts spinning, activates, and people come flying through. Implying, anyway, that activation (perhaps the first failed one) signaled to the ship to turn on life support.




You may be right. I not necessarily arguing against your observation. There were parts of the show I didn't see, either time. But six minutes, and I think that was what was mentioned, is not a lot of time to oxygenate, much less warm a large craft. Especially not with a malfunctioning environmental control system, where it would have to work that much harder to create a suitable environment. I don't even recall seeing steamy breaths from a chilled atmosphere. But if the leak were bad enough then heat would evaporate rapidly through the gases. Of course I don't know exactly what you mean by the first failed attempt (I think I do but if I'm not mistaken why would a failed attempt trigger an activation routine, I assume contact was not really established). 

Of course I don't know the limits of the environmental technology involved, just what was encountered after they boarded, don't know of the opening scenes you described was followed sequentially and immediately by the humans boarding (it could have implied something else - but then again I didn't see the details), or what exactly the writers were or weren't thinking about. Also we don't know of the ship geared up the entire ship's environmental immediately, or just the small "receiving area" we've seen so far. It would be a lot easier to environmentally prepare a small area for occupation rather than the whole ship and that may accost for the closed off sections, and the half-way open doorway. But I'm still betting on former boarding.

It would far better explain the door, and let's say the ship sat idle for a long time (had reached it's final detonation or embarkation point, from the ancient point of view), or was still hopping around from time to time, what are the odds, given the premise of the show that alien life is relatively abundant throughout the universe, even star-going alien life, that no-one else would have discovered that ship over a very long stretch of time, and every potential discoverer had just ignored it? (I personally would have investigated immediately upon discovery.) Course it could be designed to disguise, or conceal itself. Other ancient technology does. In a case alike that it would be, can the ship be caught if it runs or if it is sitting still how good are alien sensing devices versus how good is the on board camouflage or concealment? (assuming it ahs any.) It would be submarine warfare.

But if I get to see it tonight, maybe the onboard crew will start making internal ship discoveries while the exploratory team is operating off-board. They certainly have enough personnel to explore on-board assuming they can do so without too quickly burning up their atmosphere on board. A lot of people working will burn up their oxygen rapidly, and if they penetrate to other areas no guarantee yet those areas are inhabitable. 

Still, they should see if they can rig something that will temporarily allow them to transfer some of the habitable environments of the places they do visit, back through the gate, and into the ship. But I don't see they have the equipment or technology available among their own gear. If they found out they could take manual control of the vessel and maneuver it and stop the FTL clock, or at least pause it a few days, then I'd take the whole ship and land it on a planet with a good atmosphere, and environmentally flood it that way. It's a disease risk, for sure, but it beats slow asphyxiating.

Well, I got one more thread to reply to and then back to work. I enjoyed reading what I could of the speculations this morning. Some clever ideas and observations.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 9, 2009)

While people didn't have steamy breaths, that's certainly what they show during the ship startup sequence, steamy air being jetted out, probably humidifying the atmosphere as well.

My suggestion, though, was that the first failed attempt to open the gate was enough to signal to the ship that someone was boarding soon so it should wake up. That gives it a lot more than six minutes to get things up to speed.


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 10, 2009)

Also, the transit might not have been instantaneous -- it could've taken minutes (or hours) for them to get from the planet to the Destiny, giving the ship enough time to spruce up a (teensy tiny atmospheric) bit. 

Something funky happened in transit -- they all _stepped_ through the gate, but seemed to come out the other end with a bit more velocity. It also seemed like they arrived at different intervals than they entered.


----------

