# What's the moderation like here?



## Libramarian (Feb 2, 2012)

So I have a 2 week ban for "contentious behavior" over at another large RPG site. I'm thinking about moving over here. I'm wondering if there's a list of forum rules or guidelines I can read somewhere?

I suppose I am specifically wondering a few things:

1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").

2) is the moderation process driven by user-generated reports? If so, does everybody know about and use the report system, or is it kind of a secret thing that only long-time members use regularly?

3) do the moderators have a private forum where, if I receive an infraction, they're going to gossip about me secretly and peg me as a problematic user without communicating with me?

4) how often are thread bans used?

5) do the moderators have like a specific culture they're trying to inculcate on the forums? or is the forum's culture allowed to develop naturally?

Any other general comments about what the moderation is like here in comparison to other RPG forums would be welcome.


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## Dice4Hire (Feb 2, 2012)

Note, I am not a moderator. Those are the guys with green user names and I am sue one will show up soon



Libramarian said:


> So I have a 2 week ban for "contentious behavior" over at another large RPG site. I'm thinking about moving over here. I'm wondering if there's a list of forum rules or guidelines I can read somewhere?




There should have been one when you signed up. If not go to : EN World: Your Daily RPG Magazine - FAQ: vBulletin FAQ



> I suppose I am specifically wondering a few things:
> 
> 1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").




Well, this is really mod territory, but there is a line, and if you read the threads for a while you will get an idea of where it is. 



> 2) is the moderation process driven by user-generated reports? If so, does everybody know about and use the report system, or is it kind of a secret thing that only long-time members use regularly?




There is a little white triangle under your name in your post. That is used to report posts.



> 3) do the moderators have a private forum where, if I receive an infraction, they're going to gossip about me secretly and peg me as a problematic user without communicating with me?




There is a mod forum, but the rest seems to be untrue, in my experience. I believe they will tell you straight out. 



> 4) how often are thread bans used?




I see some, but those are mostly edition warriors and seem to be the same small minority over and over. 



> 5) do the moderators have like a specific culture they're trying to inculcate on the forums? or is the forum's culture allowed to develop naturally?




Respect for others, no profanity, good discussions. This site is very very well modded.



> Any other general comments about what the moderation is like here in comparison to other RPG forums would be welcome.




It is excellent.


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## jonesy (Feb 2, 2012)

Nothing gets you noticed faster here by mods than picking on another user. So, don't make it personal.

There's also a couple of touchy topics one should avoid. Real world religion, real world politics, rape, torture, cross board drama.

As far as edition wars go, in my experience anything that you might want to say has already been said a thousand times, so people get really tired of it really fast. Then it gets personal and the thread derails.


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## RangerWickett (Feb 2, 2012)

Yeah, the 'edition war' is just played out now. A statement of "I hate X" will just provoke people into arguing, which is annoying and eventually leads to personal attacks. Some might perceive posting such a comment ("I just played a session of GURPS 2e, and it sucked iassa teats!") as trolling. But usually the mods would just offer a warning and reminder not to be deliberately inflammatory. Only once actual insults are being slung would they lock a thread, and they usually only ban egregious repeat offenders.

The basic gist of the place is, think of a friendly old grandmother who is letting you and your friends hang out at her house. Don't do anything that would upset her.


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## Deset Gled (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm also not a mod, but here's my take :



Libramarian said:


> 1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").




Edition wars are not tolerated well.  It is always safe to say "I love X about Edition A".  Saying "I hate Y about Edition B" is not going to get you banned, but it has a possibility to sour a discussion, which may lead to a thread being closed.  Saying "You're stupid because you like/hate Z" is a one way ticket to a vacation from the boards.



> 5) do the moderators have like a specific culture they're trying to inculcate on the forums? or is the forum's culture allowed to develop naturally?
> 
> Any other general comments about what the moderation is like here in comparison to other RPG forums would be welcome.




The moderators here are very strongly against any kind of personal attacks.  Sometimes, people get upset because they believe a person who is being inflammatory is not punished, but other people who respond to the inflammatory posts are.  But in most of these cases you will notice that the perceived troublemaker is very careful to never insult people directly, while the (punished) responders cross the line and make things personal.

I have seen people claim that this promotes a culture of passive aggression.  I have also seen at least one case where the mods were successfully trolled by someone intentionally toeing the line and getting people riled up (and banned).  But despite that, IME this is one of the better moderated boards on the internet.


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## xigbar (Feb 2, 2012)

To give a general idea, I've only seen 2 bannings in the 10/11 months I've been here, and those were outrageous posters who made an insult everyother thread, after multiple warnings. The mods are fair, and give everyone a couple of chances to learn the rules. On another site, myth-weavers, although I love their pbp, I've been there only half as long, and seen maybe a dozen bannings. I keep to myself in any case, but sometimes, the mods over there seem a bit petty.


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## Henry (Feb 2, 2012)

Speaking as a former mod here:



Libramarian said:


> 1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").




Sure, hate whatever game or mechanics you want - the line usually gets drawn however, when the poster goes to, "...and anyone who does like X must only be in it for <powergaming/elitism/ignorance/stupidity/insert derogatory reason here>." What I try to do personally is keep it to my experience and feeling on it, and avoid generalizing to everyone else - that reduces the number of arguments that get a moderator's radar pinging.



> 2) is the moderation process driven by user-generated reports? If so, does everybody know about and use the report system, or is it kind of a secret thing that only long-time members use regularly?



"report a post" -- bottom left-hand of the first frame on each individual post. Not every post reported is acted on (maybe the reporter is seeing a slight and the mods don't, or maybe the mods are letting the offender get a little more rope to hang himself with, or they issue a private warning to the offender instead of a public one). 



> 3) do the moderators have a private forum where, if I receive an infraction, they're going to gossip about me secretly and peg me as a problematic user without communicating with me?




Yes.  More seriously, if you're pegged as a problem user, BELIEVE me they'll communicate with you, either in the thread or privately. A simple "I think you're performing problem behavior" privately sometimes works wonders that a public carpet-calling would not.



> 4) how often are thread bans used?



Depends on the phase of the moon, the current hot-topics, and how "froggy" the user base is feeling. But rest assured, you'll probably be warned before banned - and if you weren't it's probably because you were warned elsewhere first.



> 5) do the moderators have like a specific culture they're trying to inculcate on the forums? or is the forum's culture allowed to develop naturally?



Yes, it's called "don't be a jerk" (also called DBAD)  Other than this, the forums' culture is as organic as it comes. The FAQ contains a lot of useful info on this but the principle is, "if you have to second-guess if someone will take your post the wrong way, it's probably better for you to edit or not post it." Also, the "other person's living room" used be useful -- "don't say something that you wouldn't say to a friend, sittin' in his/her living room, eatin' their food." But some people get a LOT more insulting with their friends than I do, I guess. 

It's also why sometimes you might see an exchange the mods DON'T hand-slap, and a similar exchange that they DO hand-slap, because the persons involved actually know each other and have been friends for years, and the mods know this because they know the history or have met them, too. One difference between ENWorld and a lot of other forums is that many of the posters have met each other at conventions, gamedays, etc. in person, have forged real friendships, all because they started hanging around here just listening to the conversation, chiming in once they had a feel for it, and going to meetups in real life. And we're not talking "clique favoritism posters who've been here for ten years", we're talking people who just joined six months ago, started chatting, and went to Gencon/Origins/a Local ENWorld gameday, whatnot.

If a poster isn't a jerk who contributes positively to the good of the community, they get more leeway than someone who repeatedly proves themselves out to get a laugh at someone else's expense.

[ForrestGump]...and that's all I've got to say about that.[/ForrestGump]


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## mudbunny (Feb 2, 2012)

Bored at work, so thought I would jump in as well. (Note, also not a moderator.)



Libramarian said:


> 1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").




It is OK to say "I hate X", but don't expect a whole lot of responses to that. Also, you need to be careful of the thread in which you drop that little bomb. If you drop "I hate d12s" in a thread devoted to discussing how much people like d12s has the very real possibility of you getting a warning for threadcrapping. (See number 5 below for further details.)



> 2) is the moderation process driven by user-generated reports? If so, does everybody know about and use the report system, or is it kind of a secret thing that only long-time members use regularly?




Mostly user-driven reports, however the mods also participate in the threads as well.



> 3) do the moderators have a private forum where, if I receive an infraction, they're going to gossip about me secretly and peg me as a problematic user without communicating with me?




I have no idea, however if you get pegged as a problem user, it will only be after you have received numerous, numerous warnings and/or temporary thread vacations.



> 4) how often are thread bans used?




Depends on the context. There are some discussions that are close enough to the edge that the mods will pre-emptively post a warning that "the next person to cross the line gets a vacation from the thread." However, that is rare. As i mentioned above, thread vacations usually only happen after a warning in thread about behaviour.



> 5) do the moderators have like a specific culture they're trying to inculcate on the forums? or is the forum's culture allowed to develop naturally?




ENWorld has a reputation as having a population which can discuss the advantages of BECMI vs 4E without edition warring getting in the way. They can discuss the impact of video games released in the late 90s, early 2000s on the mechanics and conceits of 4E without insinuations of immaturity and other rudeness getting thrown around. A place where people can discuss why they like 4E without people jumping into the thread and dropping comments of "$E is for those who can't count".

People, when they take part in a discussion, are expected to post contributions to a thread. They are expected to be polite. And if you can't be polite, don't post.



> Any other general comments about what the moderation is like here in comparison to other RPG forums would be welcome.




I have a great deal of experience on the WotC forums, and I would say that the moderation here is much stricter here than there. And that is a good thing. The community is also less tolerant of douche-baggery. Whereas on the WotC forum, a lot of people just ignore things that cross the COC and do not report them, I have the suspicion here that it is the opposite.

Above all, follow Wheaton's rule.


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## Piratecat (Feb 2, 2012)

I'm an admin here, and I've helped moderate the site since 1999. I think this officially makes me old and crusty.



Henry said:


> Yes, it's called "don't be a jerk" (also called DBAD)



Right. When I read a problematic post, I ask myself "Would a neutral third party think this person was being a jerk? Did this person know they were being a jerk, and posted anyway?" If the answer is yes, I'm less likely to give the benefit of the doubt. 

We expect folks to be polite. Think of this as a dinner party at Morrus's house. If you say something rude to another guest that is going to piss off the hosts, expect them to respond accordingly. It's completely fine to disagree with people! Just don't be jerky about it.



			
				Deset Gled said:
			
		

> I have seen people claim that this promotes a culture of passive aggression.




I think we've gotten much better at avoiding this in the last year or two. It's something we're aware of, so when we're moderating we take a close look at who's really behind the problem. We're much less likely to tolerate someone staying right on that borderline than I was five years ago, especially when they're making things less fun for everyone else. 

A few things that will get you immediately booted or moderated: publicly calling out a moderator. Starting a new thread when the old one was closed. Pursuing a personal fight. Obscenity. Not loving flumphs. Real-world religion and politics.


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## frankthedm (Feb 2, 2012)

Libramarian said:


> 1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").



Depends on the thread. If it was a part of a post that was *relevant* to the subject of "x" it would be fine. On the other hand if it was a topic on lets say, _"How do I make X work?"_ and you just did a drive by post of "I hate x", the mods quite possibly would be on your case for threadcrapping.


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## Henry (Feb 2, 2012)

Piratecat said:


> ...Pursuing a personal fight. Obscenity. Not loving flumphs...




The only reason anyone would love flumphs is because they're obscene.*

*Admin here. Henry has been banned for not loving flumphs. He's a bad, bad man and you should shun him. SHUN! -- Piratecat*

_
*Example of poor behavior.

Even though it's the truth.

And a mod calling me out on it doesn't make it untrue._


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## jonesy (Feb 2, 2012)

Henry the rebel? Heh. That's so out-of-character.


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## Morrus (Feb 2, 2012)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> *Admin here. Henry has been banned for not loving flumphs. He's a bad, bad man and you should shun him. SHUN! -- Piratecat*




I'm shunning him right now, if you know what I mean.  And I think you do.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 3, 2012)

Honestly, based on my experience and observations, the behavior that got you banned at that other site isn't going to fly here either, even more so in fact, if that helps to answer your question. 

Good luck.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 3, 2012)

Oh, one good thing about EN World you should also know - it's like getting a clean slate and a fresh start, at least as far as the mods are concerned. They don't go for cross board drama or hold your past actions at other sites against you. If you don't do it here, they won't have a problem here.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 3, 2012)

Finally, one more thing: you won't see as much permaban type moderation here as you do at that other site - it's more of the  "leave this thread" type or "take a day off to cool down". Part of that is because EN World has a No Politics/No Religion rule. We also don't have a public "peanut gallery" open discussion whenever the mods take a punitive action, which helps a lot too.


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## Libramarian (Feb 3, 2012)

xigbar said:


> To give a general idea, I've only seen 2 bannings in the 10/11 months I've been here, and those were outrageous posters who made an insult everyother thread, after multiple warnings. The mods are fair, and give everyone a couple of chances to learn the rules. On another site, myth-weavers, although I love their pbp, I've been there only half as long, and seen maybe a dozen bannings. I keep to myself in any case, but sometimes, the mods over there seem a bit petty.




Yeah that's probably the best barometer for me, simply how often people are banned. So that's good news.

Aggressive moderation policies have a strong tendency to become self-justifying I think. The tighter you mod, the thinner-skinned people get, and the more likely they are to be offended by something simply because they feel that's it unfair it didn't get moderator action when something else in the past did.

Thread bans are particularly annoying and childish, imo. They prevent you from returning to a thread and apologizing, so animosities fester.

Anyway thanks for the replies and welcomes all.

I really like the XP system for those one-liner "+1"s and "I agree"s.


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## Libramarian (Feb 3, 2012)

jaerdaph said:


> Honestly, based on my experience and observations, the behavior that got you banned at that other site isn't going to fly here either, even more so in fact, if that helps to answer your question.
> 
> Good luck.




Hmm.

Well.

I'm not incapable of adjusting my posting. What bothers me more is how surprising it was. If it's based on a pattern of behavior, then PM me and let me know what's going on. Before banhammering me into...the week after next week. This would also allow me to leave on my own terms, which would be nice. Instead of having to watch the peanut gallery, as you put it, talk about my ban.

I mean if somebody is surprised by a ban, then there was a communication problem. I am willing to do my part to communicate with the mods; I would think this thread displays that. In return I expect the mods to communicate with me.

We shall see how it goes.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 3, 2012)

Well, you seem like a descent chap based on your participation in the non-D&D/d20 forum of that site, but I spend a lot more time there than I do in the D&D/d20 forum. That said, knowing that other board culture and their rules, the mod action wasn't surprising to me or out of the ordinary. Anyhow, it's a fresh start here, so my advice is just leave the baggage over there and don't bring it here, get a feel for EN World's board culture and rules, and jump right in.


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## Piratecat (Feb 3, 2012)

The fact that you cared enough to ask is appreciated, by the way. Thanks.


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## Libramarian (Feb 3, 2012)

Alright the XP system is _fantastic_. Best forum feature ever.

And I get notifications for people quoting my posts. That's such a useful little thing.

I am much enthused about the forum technologically.


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## wedgeski (Feb 3, 2012)

Libramarian said:


> Alright the XP system is _fantastic_. Best forum feature ever.



Totally agree!


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## john112364 (Feb 3, 2012)

Henry said:


> The only reason anyone would love flumphs is because they're obscene.*
> 
> *Admin here. Henry has been banned for not loving flumphs. He's a bad, bad man and you should shun him. SHUN! -- Piratecat*
> 
> ...




I figured Piratecat liked flumphs because they taste like Bacon!


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## Lanefan (Feb 4, 2012)

Piratecat said:


> *Admin here. Henry has been banned for not loving flumphs. He's a bad, bad man and you should shun him. SHUN! -- Piratecat*



But if Henry is banned, who will be King?

Lan-"every realm needs a king"-efan


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## Libramarian (Feb 4, 2012)

Flumph on!


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## Bullgrit (Feb 5, 2012)

I'm not a mod.


> 1) is it ok to publically express dislike for a D&D edition or general game concept? (not even necessarily a dispassionate, rational critique, just saying "I hate x").



It probably isn't a good sign when this is your first question. Your first concern is whether you can throw some hate around the forum?

Bullgrit


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## Umbran (Feb 5, 2012)

Libramarian said:


> Flumph on!




Flumpf off! Flumpf on, flumph off.... the flumpher!


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## El Mahdi (Feb 5, 2012)

Umbran said:


> ...the flumpher!




Ummm...yeahhhhh...hmmmm...uhhh...nevermind...


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## Stalker0 (Feb 5, 2012)

The Flumph Wars....begun they have.


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## Piratecat (Feb 5, 2012)

I think I may change my username to Flumphus Maximus. Which has nothing to do with this thread, but it's such a good idea I had to tell _someone._

EDIT: Clearly, this is what the Status is for.


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## TarionzCousin (Feb 15, 2012)

The moderators here are incredibly sexy.


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## Mishihari Lord (Feb 17, 2012)

As an indirect answer to the OP, I think there's less tolerance here by moderators for unpleasant behavior and certain contentious topics than other sites where I'm active.  As a result you can find surprisingly civil and productive discussions by people with strongly held but opposite positions.  I really enjoy the atmosphere here, and if there were more discussions here of non D&D games, I probably wouldn't bother participating anywhere else.


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