# Tricked Out Warmage Build?



## Moorcrys (Aug 2, 2007)

Hey brilliant Enworld minds...

I'm currently in a Living Greyhawk game with a bunch of guys who are really... really good at tricking out their characters. We're starting Greyhawk Ruins soon and starting up at level 1, and I think I'm playing a warmage. Does anyone on here have some good/interesting/nasty warmage progression builds from 1-15? 

I'd like to play a human. Character concept isn't as important right now as effectiveness in his warmage role, so any interesting builds I would love to see. As I said it's living greyhawk if you know it... pretty much core plus the complete books and a number of prestige classes are available but not all (like abjurant champion).

Any help would be appreciated. Thanks!


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## WarlockLord (Aug 3, 2007)

Warmage 5/Rainbow Servant 10.  Get full casting, the Good, Air, and Law domains, and all cleric spells added to your warmage list.

Let's not have a big rules argument, because I really don't feel like arguing over whether the French version of Complete Divine is valid.


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 3, 2007)

WarlockLord said:
			
		

> Warmage 5/Rainbow Servant 10.  Get full casting, the Good, Air, and Law domains, and all cleric spells added to your warmage list.
> 
> Let's not have a big rules argument, because I really don't feel like arguing over whether the French version of Complete Divine is valid.




I'm not sure what difference the French version might have, but my copy of _Complete Divine_ doesn't give rainbow servants full casting. They lose three levels.


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## Gorok (Aug 3, 2007)

Plus, the warmage would have to be level 6 before qualifying for the Rainbow Servant PrC.  They must be able to cast 3rd level arcane spells, and warmages do not get their 3rd level spells until they are 6th level.

I have a LG warmage character myself, and I just kept his levels of warmage going.  He's 10th level now, and he is quite a powerful battlefield caster.  I picked feats of Sculpt Spell and Energy Substitution: Acid to vary damage types and area of effects.  I also picked up mithril full plate (since he has a 0% arcane failure while wearing medium armor), and flies about on a flying carpet to keep up his speed with the other PC's.


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## Felon (Aug 3, 2007)

I considered playing a warmage for a long time. I eventually realized that their spell list is just too limited, and they get too few instances of Advanced Learning with which to beef it up. An evoker or conjurer Master Specialist is such a better option for somebody who has full access to Spell Compendium, PHB II, and Complete Mage that it's not even a close contest.


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## Rystil Arden (Aug 3, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> I'm not sure what difference the French version might have, but my copy of _Complete Divine_ doesn't give rainbow servants full casting. They lose three levels.



 It's in the American version too.  The chart says they lose three levels, but the text says they don't, and text trumps chart.  The intention is _clearly_ to have them lose the levels, but by RAW it appears not.  It should really be errataed.


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## Sejs (Aug 3, 2007)

WarlockLord said:
			
		

> Warmage 5/Rainbow Servant 10.  Get full casting, the Good, Air, and Law domains, and all cleric spells added to your warmage list.
> 
> Let's not have a big rules argument, because I really don't feel like arguing over whether the French version of Complete Divine is valid.




I don't think I could make the ideological shift from being a mage that specializes in blowing stuff up to being a mage that _serves rainbows_.

I don't care if they're actually coatl.  I don't care if it's chock full of oodles of noodles of power.  I just can't bring myself to do it.


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 3, 2007)

Rystil Arden said:
			
		

> It's in the American version too.  The chart says they lose three levels, but the text says they don't, and text trumps chart.  The intention is _clearly_ to have them lose the levels, but by RAW it appears not.  It should really be errataed.




Well, I'll be... I'd never noticed that.

I agree with you, given the other benefits of the class, the table is clearly correct in this instance. I'm stunned this wasn't included in the _CD_ errata.  :\


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## Rystil Arden (Aug 3, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Well, I'll be... I'd never noticed that.
> 
> I agree with you, given the other benefits of the class, the table is clearly correct in this instance. I'm stunned this wasn't included in the _CD_ errata.  :\



 I'm not stunned given WotC's sloppy overall record on issuing errata, but yeah, the class's power is high enough that the missing levels are obviously intended.  However, until such time as it is errataed, there's nothing beyond Rule 0 to stop others from abusing it.  And once we start taking table entries that look more reasonable than the full text write-up, we open a can of worms that includes Shadow Blade from Bo9S (far more reasonable in the table where it replaces Str with Dex to damage rather than in the text where it gives you both at once).


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## Trouvere (Aug 3, 2007)

The table I'm looking at says the Rainbow Servant loses _four_ levels - which just so happen by purest coincidence    to be those at which the three Domains and the full clerical spell access are obtained.
I'm not familiar at all with the Shadow Blade situation, but the Rainbow Servant case surely should be one where, even though text trumps table, maximum parsimony trumps text!


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## Rystil Arden (Aug 3, 2007)

Trouvere said:
			
		

> The table I'm looking at says the Rainbow Servant loses _four_ levels - which just so happen by purest coincidence    to be those at which the three Domains and the full clerical spell access are obtained.
> I'm not familiar at all with the Shadow Blade situation, but the Rainbow Servant case surely should be one where, even though text trumps table, maximum parsimony trumps text!



 I don't own the book because it is a catastrophe of poor editing and balance and a black sheep of the first four Completes--I trusted whoever said it was three above, but I'm sure you're right if you just checked it


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## Felon (Aug 3, 2007)

Rystil Arden said:
			
		

> I'm not stunned given WotC's sloppy overall record on issuing errata, but yeah, the class's power is high enough that the missing levels are obviously intended.  However, until such time as it is errataed, there's nothing beyond Rule 0 to stop others from abusing it.  And once we start taking table entries that look more reasonable than the full text write-up, we open a can of worms that includes Shadow Blade from Bo9S (far more reasonable in the table where it replaces Str with Dex to damage rather than in the text where it gives you both at once).



If there's a clash between text and table, there's already a can of worms open, no?

Moreover, I think it's no less wormy to suggest that there ought to be some all-trumping meta-rule that overrides common sense as it is to resolve each conflict on its own merits.


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## Rystil Arden (Aug 3, 2007)

Felon said:
			
		

> If there's a clash between text and table, there's already a can of worms open, no?
> 
> Moreover, I think it's no less wormy to suggest that there ought to be some all-trumping meta-rule that overrides common sense as it is to resolve each conflict on its own merits.



 The all-trumping meta-rule at least gives you a common point of reference, and then you only need to errata half of the mistakes instead of all of them.  Of course, when WotC fails to errata anyway, you do have a problem.  It's unfortunate--I think there's also a new thread in General about the strange hiatus on errata.

But I agree, in my game, I go with my common sense every time.  The Rainbow Servant loses 4 levels if the player even tries to use it at all because they know how I feel about CD.  The Shadow Blade feat goes by the table too in my game, etc.  The trouble is that common sense is not so common--powergamers will try to argue that the class is somehow 'too weak' without full casting.  Not sure how that argument can be made, but I've seen it.


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## rgard (Aug 3, 2007)

Can you take Battle Sorcerer from UA?  I prefer the BS to the Warmage in that you have a greater variety of spells to choose from (the wizard/sorc list), better BAB and better hitpoints.

You blow as much stuff up, but it is a more versatile in my opinion.

Thanks,
Rich


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## TheGogmagog (Aug 3, 2007)

I like the warmage, if you have good stats, The intelligence bonus to damage (and feat that advances it) are really nice and make it worth sticking with the warmage over prestige classes.  The other reason I like it is there isn't any optimization required.  I like taking the sudden metamagics (extend or enlarge, then empower or maximize).  Again with the Int bonus to damage and the +1 per level spells empower adds up to be as effective or more powerful than maximize when it comes to spell like wall of fire.

Besides that, the OP might also have problems making the RP leap to worshiping couatl's, or his DM and the rest of the group might not make it super easy to find the hidden jungle temples of the couatls (especially by level 6).

I haven't looked at the battle sorcerer recently, but I would guess that would be a better choice if you only have a single good stat and all others are 14 or less.


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## Thanee (Aug 3, 2007)

Felon said:
			
		

> An evoker or conjurer Master Specialist is such a better option for somebody who has full access to Spell Compendium, PHB II, and Complete Mage that it's not even a close contest.




But isn't that kinda besides the point?

Sure, maybe a wizard is overall the 'better' class, esp. with PrC options figured in, but the wizard still cannot spontaneously cast his or her whole class list (as little as it might be for the warmage).

The benefit of a warmage is to have the right (combat) spell for the job ready at all times.

It's not a huge benefit, but still something a wizard cannot do.

Bye
Thanee


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## Stormborn (Aug 3, 2007)

rgard said:
			
		

> Can you take Battle Sorcerer from UA?  I prefer the BS to the Warmage in that you have a greater variety of spells to choose from (the wizard/sorc list), better BAB and better hitpoints.
> 
> You blow as much stuff up, but it is a more versatile in my opinion.
> 
> ...



I agree.  But it may not be an option in Living Greyhawk.


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## Caliban (Aug 3, 2007)

Stormborn said:
			
		

> I agree.  But it may not be an option in Living Greyhawk.




It's not.


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## rgard (Aug 3, 2007)

Caliban said:
			
		

> It's not.




That's no fun!


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## Moorcrys (Aug 3, 2007)

Yeah, no battle sorcerers, and the rainbow servant is open but it's a talk to the judges prestige class -- I'm pretty sure they use the chart's spell progression and not the text. 

The only possibility I can see is taking Fatespinner (Complete Arcane) after 8th Level.

My group tends to dismiss the warmage after they get Sudden Empower. They also don't like the Extra Edge feat because of way diminishing returns after low levels... 3 extra hit points of damage at 12th level into the mix doesn't make the feat worth it when you're tossing around 5th level spells. Energy Substitution [Acid] is appealing as a feat. Sculpt Spell is pretty much a definite at 6th. I'm also looking at the boring but important Spell Focus [Evocation] and Greater Spell Focus. For flavor I was looking at the Invisible Needle [Reserve] Feat (Complete Mage). If anyone has any nifty feat idea's I'd love to hear those as well.

I'm definitely filling a niche... there are going to be a number of casters in the group (cleric and arcane rogue types mostly but they love to dip if it gets them somewhere more powerful in the long run) but it looks like I'm going to be the boomstick. I was just seeing if anyone had any ideas about how to broaden him a little.


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## Caliban (Aug 3, 2007)

One successfull build I've seen is go into Wild Mage and take Practiced Spellcaster so you never have a penalty to your caster level.  

One build concept I've toyed with is giving the warmage a decent wisdom (at least 12, maybe 14 - enough so that a Periapt +4 will let you cast Wall of Force), worship Boccob, and take the Arcane Disciple feat for the Force Domain, which allows you to qualify for Argent Savant (from Complete Arcane) at 10th level - Warmage Edge on top of Force Spell specialization is pretty nice, and Argent Savant is a 5 level prestige class so you max it out before you retire.

Only problem is that as a warmage you are already trying to pump Charisma and Int, and this throws another stat into the mix.

I currently run a Sorcerer 10/Argent Savant4, and it's a pretty nice class.   I think it would work well with the Warmage.


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## TheGogmagog (Aug 3, 2007)

Moorcrys said:
			
		

> I'm definitely filling a niche... there are going to be a number of casters in the group (cleric and arcane rogue types mostly but they love to dip if it gets them somewhere more powerful in the long run) but it looks like I'm going to be the boomstick. I was just seeing if anyone had any ideas about how to broaden him a little.



  Runestaffs are one MIC option to broaden spell access.

On top of that with high Charisma and Intelligence, you don't have to be the character who is better of if he keeps his mouth shut in role play encounters.  Depending on cleric and rogue's focus, you might even be the front man.  I consider them quite dynamic when flat damage isn't the point, and still the best when it is.

+3 damage is almost equal to +1d6, something most casters would go for in a heartbeat.  I played one to about 12th level and was adding 7 to damage, which I considered equal to 2d6 that you aren't going to get from playing a sorcerer.  Items like the +1 caster level Ioun Stone are just as accessible to the warmage.


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## DiceGolem (Aug 3, 2007)

Personally, I'm a fan of Warmage/Elemental Savant. My original build calls for a Warforged Scout with Mithral Body flavor, but I guess Human will do. The core of all my fun feats was Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane), Storm Bolt, and Clap of Thunder (Complete Mage), making it a Electricity/Sonic specialist.


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## Caliban (Aug 3, 2007)

TheGogmagog said:
			
		

> Runestaffs are one MIC option to broaden spell access.




I don't think runestaffs actually do anything for a warmage.  Don't the spells on the staff still have to be on your class spell list for you to activate them?   And you use your own spell slots to activate them?

Since warmages already have all the spells on their class list available to them (barring spells that are not Open acces) at all times, they wouldn't be able to get any additional benefit from a runestaff.


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## Thanee (Aug 3, 2007)

Caliban said:
			
		

> One build concept I've toyed with is giving the warmage a decent wisdom (at least 12, maybe 14 - enough so that a Periapt +4 will let you cast Wall of Force), worship Boccob, and take the Arcane Disciple feat for the Force Domain, ...




Arcane Disciple is also quite nice with the Travel Domain. In my PnP D&D campaign, there's a Warmage who did that, and it has proven quite useful so far.

In general, Arcane Disciple is a really good feat for a Warmage (only the necessary Wis is a bit of a disadvantage).

Bye
Thanee


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 3, 2007)

Caliban said:
			
		

> I don't think runestaffs actually do anything for a warmage.  Don't the spells on the staff still have to be on your class spell list for you to activate them?   And you use your own spell slots to activate them?




This is correct. No runestaffs for warmages.


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## JRR_Talking (Aug 3, 2007)

In LG you can be a grey elf, so bonus to dex and Int, ideal for a WM...maybe start with that. 4 auto hit magic missiles a day for d4+5 should see u safely through to next level


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## griff_goodbeard (Aug 4, 2007)

Accelerate Metamagic and Practical Metamagic both require the dragonblood subtype (which isn't that hard to get anymore) but both would be pretty kickass for a warmage.


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## Kurotowa (Aug 4, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> This is correct. No runestaffs for warmages.




OTOH, they can get a lot of use out of Eternal Wands.  Those only have the requirement of being an arcane caster to use.  It's a nice way to get the use of a spell that isn't on their class list.


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## Moorcrys (Aug 4, 2007)

DiceGolem said:
			
		

> Personally, I'm a fan of Warmage/Elemental Savant. My original build calls for a Warforged Scout with Mithral Body flavor, but I guess Human will do. The core of all my fun feats was Born of Three Thunders (Complete Arcane), Storm Bolt, and Clap of Thunder (Complete Mage), making it a Electricity/Sonic specialist.




That would be a fun build... I'm not a fan of the Three Thunders dazing problem, and I catch a lot of grief to take a spontaneous caster prestige class that will make me lose 1 caster level of spells. Definitely has flavor though. Thanks 



			
				Thanee said:
			
		

> Caliban said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I've been looking at the Arcane Disciple route... I've been thinking of the Travel domain spells just because the warmage gets no movement boosts and spells like Dimension Door are so useful. The Argent Savant route is interesting too -- couldn't do both but I'll look over the deities list again. 



			
				JRR_Talking said:
			
		

> In LG you can be a grey elf, so bonus to dex and Int, ideal for a WM...maybe start with that. 4 auto hit magic missiles a day for d4+5 should see u safely through to next level




If I went the Arcane Disciple route, I might do this, simply to free up some build points to drop into Wisdom. I hate losing that Feat though.



			
				griff_goodbeard said:
			
		

> Accelerate Metamagic and Practical Metamagic both require the dragonblood subtype (which isn't that hard to get anymore) but both would be pretty kickass for a warmage.




And play a kobold? Or is there another way through a feat or something? I'm still waiting for my LG cards to arrive in the mail... it's only been a year.   

Thanks for all the advice you all!


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## griff_goodbeard (Aug 4, 2007)

Dragonborn, spellscale, all the 'dragon-touched' races in dragon magic, or by taking the Draconic Heritage feat


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## Caliban (Aug 4, 2007)

griff_goodbeard said:
			
		

> Dragonborn, spellscale, all the 'dragon-touched' races in dragon magic, or by taking the Draconic Heritage feat




In LG it's pretty much limited to taking the Draconic Heritage feat, or using a campaign card to play a kobold.


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## griff_goodbeard (Aug 4, 2007)

Caliban said:
			
		

> In LG it's pretty much limited to taking the Draconic Heritage feat, or using a campaign card to play a kobold.




Oh, I don't even know what a campaign card is.


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## Caliban (Aug 4, 2007)

griff_goodbeard said:
			
		

> Oh, I don't even know what a campaign card is.




LG is Living Greyhawk, one of several D&D campaigns sponsored and run by the RPGA (Role Playing Game Association), which is in turn run by WOTC. 

You play your characters in modules released on PDF by the RPGA (and written by volunteers in the campaign) and whenever you play a module it is (in theory) reported to the RPGA via the WOTC website.   Eventually they mail you campaign cards (based on the number of modules you play, what campaign the modules are for, and wether you play at a Convention or not).  Campaign cards can be used to unlock character options (such as playing a kobold) or give you minor benefits during a game (re-rolling a skill check, a saving throw, or giving a bonus in a certain situation.)

LG has a pretty extensive list of races, spells, feats, magic items, and prestige classes that can only be used with campaign documentation, and campaign cards are one form of campaign documentation (other forms are favors gained in modules, organizations you can join in game and playing certain special events.)


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## JRR_Talking (Aug 4, 2007)

further to previous, play a gray elf warmage, leave him at 8 wisdom and take 'force of personality' feat at 1st. that way u have 2 dump stats (STR+WIS) so can nerf up your DEX+INT and still have decent CON+CHA. Dont bother with a melee weapon and just pick up a missile weapon during the adventure....

, Gray Warmg1: CR 1; Medium Humanoid (Elf); HD 1d6+1(Warmage) ; hp 7; 
Init +3; Spd 20; AC:19 (Flatfooted:16 Touch:13); 
Atk -2 base melee, +3 base ranged; 
SQ: Immunity: Sleep Effects (Ex), Low-light Vision (Ex), +2 Saves vs. Enchantment Spells and Effects; 
AL N; SV Fort +1, Ref +3, Will +4; 
STR 6, DEX 16, CON 12, INT 18, WIS 8, CHA 14.
Skills: Bluff +4, Concentration +5, Decipher Script +5, Intimidate +6, Knowledge (Arcana) +5, Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +5, Knowledge (History) +5, Knowledge (Religion) +5, Listen +1, Search +6, Spellcraft +8, Spot +1. 

Feats: Armor Proficiency: light, Force of Personality, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency.

Spells Prepared (Warmg 5/4): .
Possessions: 
Armor: Chain shirt (100 gp).
Shields: Shield, heavy wooden (7 gp).
Goods: Coin: gp (13) (13 gp).


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