# True Strike Items



## Xeoble (Dec 16, 2002)

Magic item construction baffles me (possibly because i haven't read them enough).  

I was wondering if anyone out there would help me out and tell me how much an item out of which you could cast true strike so many times per day (1 to infinity) would cost.


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## gfunk (Dec 16, 2002)

Remember that the magic item construction rules in the DMG are there for a baseline.  You should compare new items relative to existing ones and adjust their price upwards or downwards accordingly.

For an item of True Strike that is command word activated would cost:

Command word		Spell level x caster level x 1,800 gp

Since you need to be at least 3rd level to Craft a Wondrous Item, the price for such an item would be 1 x 3 x 1,800 = 5,400 gp.

This would allow you to cast True Strike as a standard action as many times per day as you would want.

If you want to limit it to x # of times/day then you probably have to eyeball it.  There are not strict rules, as far as I know, for wondrous items w/ limited uses per day.


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## Jay Lofstead (Dec 16, 2002)

While this follows the second method for magic item pricing, it doesn't take into account the power of such an item.  The first rule of magic item costing is to compare it to similar abilities elsewhere in items (and look at the utility it provides).  Spells with limited duration or personal only spells were made that way to limit their power.  This item by the costing method comes out to that low a cost.  From a relative power basis, remember that you are making an item that will allow a weapon to be +20 to hit!  Even though it doesn't add to damage, how much would you pay for a weapon that is +20 to hit?  A lot more than a +5 to hit, +5 to damage weapon I would bet.

The reason this item doesn't exist in the base rules is that it is unbalancing.  Either it needs to be obscenely expensive to compensate for the benefit, or it just can't be made.


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## ConcreteBuddha (Dec 16, 2002)

Jay Lofstead said:
			
		

> *  From a relative power basis, remember that you are making an item that will allow a weapon to be +20 to hit!  Even though it doesn't add to damage, how much would you pay for a weapon that is +20 to hit?  A lot more than a +5 to hit, +5 to damage weapon I would bet.
> 
> *




Standard action to activate. One attack.


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## Victim (Dec 17, 2002)

A command word true strike item would prevent the user from attacking one round (unless hasted) and would only apply to one attack the next.  That's a far cry from +20 automatically to all attacks.


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## Artoomis (Dec 17, 2002)

The one item that I know about that was designed as a "True Strike" item was a bow, I think.  Anyway, it not only takes a standard action to activate, it was a spell trigger (or was it spell completion?) type of item, so you ALSO needed to have "True Strike" on your spell list, a further balancing factor.


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## dcollins (Dec 17, 2002)

Xeoble said:
			
		

> *Magic item construction baffles me (possibly because i haven't read them enough).*




Base item construction is quite easy: the character must have the appropriate feat, pick an item from the DMG, and pay the cost in gold, XP and time.

Construction of "new items" not listed in the rules is a completely different matter, subject entirely to DM judgement with only general guidelines given. All "new items" are inherently house-ruled. If you are baffled by that prospect, the easiest and safest thing to do is just go by the rules as presented, and not allow any "new items" to be constructed.


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Artoomis said:
			
		

> *The one item that I know about that was designed as a "True Strike" item was a bow, I think.  Anyway, it not only takes a standard action to activate, it was a spell trigger (or was it spell completion?) type of item, so you ALSO needed to have "True Strike" on your spell list, a further balancing factor. *




It's the Bow of True Arrows, spell-trigger, from S&F.


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## plavi (Dec 17, 2002)

For a permanent True Strike item take the following in consideration:
the DMG sais: bonus squared * 1000.

So, +20 weapon = 20 * 20 * 1000 = 400.000 gp.

It is only on to hit and not on damage, but since to hit is way better than bonusses to damage I will be merciful and knock off 25% of the price, for 300.000 gp. And that is only taking in account the cold rules of the DMG and not that (depending on campaign type) you may need the tarrasque's eye, the roc's egg or the Cyclops' toenails to create it. 

Who the fong has 300.000 gp's laying around? It's enough to keep a small country running for a decade, or to build a huge castle, or to equip the entire party with full +5 weapons and some to spare.

Or, of course, just the N-word. 'No'. Repeat after me, if you say it to your party a few times it will come easier..... 'No!'. Really, it's a relief... 

Luck

Plavi


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## ConcreteBuddha (Dec 17, 2002)

plavi said:
			
		

> *For a permanent True Strike item take the following in consideration:
> the DMG sais: bonus squared * 1000.
> *




That's for * enhancement * bonuses to armor and ability scores. An enhancement bonus for weapons is actually the bonus squared x 2000. But luckily, enhancement bonuses can't go above +5 (non-epic), so your math is unfounded anyway.


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## Mordane76 (Dec 17, 2002)

Such items already exist -- they're called wands.

Really, what DM in their right mind is going to go with the last option presented; an item that gave True Strike as a permanent bonus?  That's the equivalent of having what, 40 EPIC levels?  Even using the 400K price for armor/enhancement bonuses is generous, because every DM knows that if such an item existed, their players would be looking for such an item, or saving up their money until they could afford it.  Only epic levels give out a bonus of that nature, one that adds to any and all attacks.  Even a brooch or whatnot that only did so a limited number of times a day is unbalancing -- wizards can do it, if they prepare the spell in several slots, but that costs them expendable resources every day.

About the best I think I'd be willing to do is allow the creation of a brooch/necklace/whatnot that was not spell-completion that allowed the use of True Strike 1/day.  Anything beyond that would be dangerous, IMO.  Unfortunately, I'm not sure how I'd handle the explanation in game terms -- perhaps they haven't found a material that could handle the power of such a spell beyond that limit; everything they've tried to place more TS into has simply exploded, shattering in such a way as to fling fragments into the creator's brain, killing him (very TS, I think).


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## Dark Dragon (Dec 17, 2002)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's the Bow of True Arrows, spell-trigger, from S&F. *




You don't know its market price and/or the costs for the true strike ability (I don't have S&F), do you? I'm planning such a bow for my rog/asn/wiz and don't know how to handle the cost for TS.
Ok, the bow WON'T have a permanent _True Strike_, but perhaps once per day...

EDIT: Clarification


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## IceBear (Dec 17, 2002)

While it is a powerful ability, remember that if it take a standard action to invoke the power you end up having True Strike occuring on ONE attack every other round.  So, essentially, the PC gives up one attack round to get a +20 on one attack the next round (which COULD still miss).

IceBear


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Dark Dragon said:
			
		

> *You don't know its market price and/or the costs for the true strike ability (I don't have S&F), do you? *




The bow is 4,000gp. Subtract the cost of the +1 mighty composite longbow (2,500gp), and you're left with 1,500gp for the True Strike part.


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## MerakSpielman (Dec 17, 2002)

Can somebody work out the math and figure out if you do more damage on average with a +20 bonus to hit, only attacking every other turn? I imagine there's a cut-off point - below a certain AC it would not be worth it. 
What would this AC be? 
Let's assume, since we need to get numbers somewhere, that we have a 5th level fighter (no useful feats, STR 10) with a True Strike Longsword. 
It's clear that against AC 10 he's better off not activating the sword, and against AC 30 he _is_ better off activating the sword. Where's the cut off point, if he wants to kill his opponent as quickly as possible?


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## Dark Dragon (Dec 17, 2002)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The bow is 4,000gp. Subtract the cost of the +1 mighty composite longbow (2,500gp), and you're left with 1,500gp for the True Strike part. *




Thanks a lot. I suppose, the bow can "cast" TS once per day?


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Dark Dragon said:
			
		

> *I suppose, the bow can "cast" TS once per day? *




No. Unlimited uses, like an unlimited-charge wand.


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Dec 17, 2002)

> For a permanent True Strike item take the following in consideration:
> the DMG sais: bonus squared * 1000.
> 
> So, +20 weapon = 20 * 20 * 1000 = 400.000 gp.




I have to disagree. The multiplier is 2,500 for an insight bonus to attack. The weapon also ignores most forms of concealment, so that costs extra.

Anything over 200,000 gp could get multiplied by a lot, and becomes an epic item.


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## Kraedin (Dec 17, 2002)

I see three obvious ways to do this:

The first is the _bow of true arrows_ style.  I.e., a unlimited-use spell-trigger item.  The _true strike_ ability on that weapon costs about 1,500 gp., and that seems to be a fair price.

The second is a command word activated item.  An example of this would be:

*Amulet of Striking:*  On command, this amulet affects the wearer as though by the spell _true strike_.
_Caster Level:_ 3rd; _Prerequisites:_ Craft Wondrous Item, _true strike_; _Market Price:_ 6,000 gp.

The third is a use-activated item.  I would probably do it like this:

*Amulet of Inerrant Precision:* This mithral amulet grants its user a +20 insight bonus to attack rolls, and allows the user to ignore the miss chance from concealment.
_Caster Level:_ 21st; _Prerequisites:_ Craft Wondrous Item, Craft Epic Wondrous Item, _true strike_; _Market Price:_ 10,500,000 gp.


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Kraedin said:
			
		

> *Use-activated true strike would be an epic item, and would be priced thusly:
> 
> (+20 insight bonus)^2 * 2500 (insight multiplier) * 10 (epic multiplier) + price of concealment negation. = 10,000,000 gp., + price of concealment negation. *




You are assuming use-activation as a free action, and that is not always the case. There is a huge difference between use-activated (free action) and use-activated (standard action). Most of the misconceptions regarding this topic are because of a failure on many people's parts to take this into account.

When you step back and take a look at the options available, a use-activated (standard action) True Strike item isn't that bad at all. At high level, it's only really useful when you absolutely must make that one shot, like when you want to shoot down a chandolier with your bow, or carefuly fire an arrow with a note attached next to someone. It has many utilitarian purposes. At low level, say when you only have one or two attacks per round anyway, its great.

It certainly is not as nasty as a use-activated (standard action) Heal item.


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## Kraedin (Dec 17, 2002)

What?  When I say "use-activated", I mean the sort of item where you use it and gain the benefits, such as a _girdle of giant strength_.


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## MerakSpielman (Dec 17, 2002)

What most people who start talking about a True Strike item really want is an automatic +20 to all their attacks. No activation nonsense - it's always active, even for multiple attacks. This reaches into the realm of Epic.

Most people don't realize the first time they read the spell True Strike that they have to wait until their next turn to take their attack. Their eyes boggle at the incredibly powerful spell they have found. Then they re-read it or somebody explains it to them and they sigh understanding. But that lure of +20 to attack, whenever and wherever you want lingers in the back of their mind....

Question: Can you make a wand of True Strike that you can cast on somebody else? Like have a henchman use the wand on you every turn before you attack? Or would that be a new, different spell? What level would a spell have to be for it to grant somebody _else_ +20 on their next attack?


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## Kraedin (Dec 17, 2002)

> Or would that be a new, different spell? What level would a spell have to be for it to grant somebody else +20 on their next attack?



IIRC, John Tweet once said it would be about 4th or 5th level, but I have no idea where I saw that.


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Kraedin said:
			
		

> *What?  When I say "use-activated", I mean the sort of item where you use it and gain the benefits, such as a girdle of giant strength. *




What you 'mean' is fine, but I was pointing out that there is a huge difference in the rules, so what you say in a rules discussion is important. There are multiple options in regards to time consumption with activating a use-activated item, and which one is used can greatly effect the power and usefulness of just about any magic item. Like I said, the problem I see is that many people just assume 'free action' or 'not an action' with the use-activated method, when those are definately not the only options.


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## Kraedin (Dec 17, 2002)

In my post, I gave my opinion on spell-trigger, command-word, and use-activated items.  Why would anyone in thier right mind assume that I would price a use-activated item that was activated as a standard action using a command word as being two thousand times as expensive as a command word item?

That seems rather odd.


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## plavi (Dec 17, 2002)

(Psi)SeveredHead said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I have to disagree. The multiplier is 2,500 for an insight bonus to attack. The weapon also ignores most forms of concealment, so that costs extra.
> 
> Anything over 200,000 gp could get multiplied by a lot, and becomes an epic item. *




Ah yes, I was quoting by heart anyway. It was just as an example to be used anyway. I have done away with all the crazy rules from the DMG, and if somebody wants to create a magic item with an always-active power I just give each power a certaint equivalent bonus (like +1 or +2), add it all up and this nice and easily discourages every player from doing silly things.

It came in handy when a similar thread was started by me, about a player who wanted a permanent Protection From Evil, with of course the argument it was just a first level spell. Yeah right.

So +2 AC, +2 saves, immunity to mind control and immunity to outsider attacks.... together a +5 or so, which is 5 squared * 1000 = 25000 gp at least. You may even uppen the price for different bonusses or something, but it was fine by me since I run a low magic, low gold campaign anyway.... hey, what can I say, I'm an evil DM... 

Luck with your rulings though!

Regards


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Kraedin said:
			
		

> *In my post, I gave my opinion on spell-trigger, command-word, and use-activated items. *




You didn't indicate whether or not the command-word had unlimited charges or 50 charges. There's a difference. You didn't indicate whether or not the use-activated had unlimited charges or 50 charges. There's a difference. You didn't indicate whether or not the use-activated was 'not an action', 'free action', or 'standard action'. There's a difference.

Without any indicated specifics, your post threw me for a loop. I'm not trying to be insulting, but you seemed to be making a lot of assumptions while being very nonspecific at the same time. It's hard to see your point of view when I don't have a reference to base it on.



			
				Kraedin said:
			
		

> *Why would anyone in thier right mind assume that I would price a use-activated item that was activated as a standard action using a command word as being two thousand times as expensive as a command word item? *




I have no idea, thus the reason for my first reply to you. You didn't specify how long it would take to activate the use-activated item, and judging by your pricing, you appeared to assume 'not an action' or 'free action', without taking into account that other options are available. In effect, you assumed the worst when it's not the only choice available to you.

It seems that most people assume the worst (use-activated, not an action or free action) because they either overlook the other options or they are unaware of the other options. Basically, your post wasn't very clear to me, so I was trying to figure out where you're coming from.


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## Artoomis (Dec 17, 2002)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You are assuming use-activation as a free action, and that is not always the case. There is a huge difference between use-activated (free action) and use-activated (standard action). Most of the misconceptions regarding this topic are because of a failure on many people's parts to take this into account.
> 
> ...






> Activating a use-activated magic item is either a standard action or not even an action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity, unless the use involves committing an action that provokes an attack of opportunity in itself. If the use of the item takes time before a magical effect occurs, then use activation is a standard action. If the item’s activation is subsumed in use and takes no extra time, use activation is usually not even an action.




Always good to quote the rules on this sort of topic.

But note that there is no price difference between a use-activated (standard action) item and a use-activated (no action) item.

Then again:

1.  Item prices are only guidelines.
2.  If this were a no-action use-activated type item, then it should probably be priced out by the bonus it grants, not by spell level (because it's not the same as the spell anymore).

As a use-activated item I think it would be VERY expensive. 

(Bonus^2 times some multiplier) - insight is not listed in the DMG, but if we assume 2,500, then it would be:

(20^2)*2,500 or 1,000,000 gp.  Whew!!

On the other hand, if it worked exactly like the spell, it would only be 6,000 gp.  (3rd level caster, 1st level spell = 1 x 3 x 2,000 = 2,000).  I suppose it could be done as cheap as 2,000 g.p. if powered only as a 1st level caster.

I don't know how the bow got priced out as costing only 1,500 for the True Strike part.  Odd.

(It's worth noting that no errata on the bow has been published.)


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## Kraedin (Dec 17, 2002)

> You didn't indicate whether or not the command-word had unlimited charges or 50 charges.



Unlimited use items, such as the _amulet of the planes_, _folding boat_, or _boots of levitation_ do not have listed numbers of charges.  Unlimited use is the default assumption.  This is not any more vague than the DMG.







> You didn't indicate whether or not the use-activated had unlimited charges or 50 charges.



See above.







> Without any indicated specifics, your post threw me for a loop.



I bet the DMG gives you all sorts of problems.







> I have no idea, thus the reason for my first reply to you.



Then why make the most ludicrous assumption available?


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## kreynolds (Dec 17, 2002)

Kraedin said:
			
		

> *Unlimited use items, such as the amulet of the planes, folding boat, or boots of levitation do not have listed numbers of charges. *




You're right. They don't. However, you were talking about a custom item. Custom items have many options available. You didn't specify which.



			
				Kraedin said:
			
		

> *Unlimited use is the default assumption. *




Is it now?



			
				Kraedin said:
			
		

> *This is not any more vague than the DMG. *




Its completely vague. The DMG states what options are available in regards to activation time, methods, and charges. You defined only a fraction of these.



			
				Kraedin said:
			
		

> *See above. *




See previous answer.



			
				Kraedin said:
			
		

> *I bet the DMG gives you all sorts of problems. *




See previous answer.



			
				Kraedin said:
			
		

> *Then why make the most ludicrous assumption available? *




I don't appreciate your tone. I've been polite and cordial thus far, so I don't see why you find it necessary to be so rude.


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## Kraedin (Dec 17, 2002)

This is silly.  I agree my tone has been needlessly hostile.  I'll just edit my original post to remove any vagueness.


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## Artoomis (Dec 17, 2002)

Kraedin said:
			
		

> *This is silly.  I agree my tone has been needlessly hostile.  I'll just edit my original post to remove any vagueness. *




Nicely done.


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## Artoomis (Dec 17, 2002)

I just though I'd say I figured out the 1,500 gp charge for True Strike, spell trigger, unlimited use.

For 50- charges it would be 1 x 1 x750.  Unlimited use is double the 50 charge cost, so that makes it 1,500 gp.


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## MerakSpielman (Dec 17, 2002)

750gp. Yes. Identical to a wand.


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## Dark Dragon (Dec 18, 2002)

kreynolds said:
			
		

> *
> 
> No. Unlimited uses, like an unlimited-charge wand. *




Whew, I didn't thought that it would be SO cheap, but following Artoomis' calculation it is obviously ok. Well, one shouldn't forget that the archer loses one (full) attack to activate the bow and gets the bonus only for his next single attack in the next round. Seems quite fair to me.


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## kreynolds (Dec 18, 2002)

Dark Dragon said:
			
		

> *Seems quite fair to me. *




Yup.


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## kreynolds (Jan 31, 2003)

Artoomis said:
			
		

> *I don't know how the bow got priced out as costing only 1,500 for the True Strike part. *




Heh. I just noticed that.  1 x 1 x 750 for using the spelltrigger activation method, but if it was unlimited charges, it would be 1 x 1 x 1500 (the unlimited charges version for command-word and use-activated are all double the 50 charge version). However, even if it was 1 x 1 x 1500, it should probably get doubled for being a secondary power on a weapon. If it was doubled for that, the price of the bow would be 5,500 gp.


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## Vysirez (Feb 1, 2003)

So you can make an infinite charge wand for just double the price of a 50 charge wand?


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## isoChron (Feb 1, 2003)

Woohoo, nothing against a bow that needs two rounds to grant +20 to one shot ... but!
The first thing I would buy after such bow would be boots of speed, potion of haste or similar things. Perhaps scrolls of haste if I had some level in wizard. Or later the first spell in third level would be haste.     
--> Partial Action: Activate True Strike
Full Round Action: Shoot Arrows with the first at +20 ...

All you trade in in respect to "normal" haste (w/o true strike) would be one attack at highest bonus. I would definetly do that against heavy AC guys.

Now imagine the fighter type with power attack 15 ... 

True Strike is a spell for wizards (personal) only. Wizards seldom take Power Attack as a feat. Wizards have a bad BAB, and this spell is meant (IMHO) to give the wizard a chance to hit once every two rounds for sure (perhaps with a ray or crossbow or whatever).
Now if you make it available to all classes without taking the Range: personal into account the spell gets a little over the top. Honestly: 1500GM for a +20 bonus to attack ??? I could imagine more than one situation were this would be more than neat.
The same for the spell Shield ... Expeditious Retreat ... Why is there a range: personal instead of range: touch ???
And remember the wizard has to prepare the spell and can cast it only a limited times per day.

The table "pricing of magic items" should always be a GUIDELINE not the ultimate truth. IIRC the title was changed for the same table in T&B in "estimating prices for magic items".

I could handle a true strike item with 1/day or 2/day maybe even 3/day but not at the base price derived from the table in the DMG or T&B.

Just my humble opinion, don't take it personal Dark Dragon. 

BYE

[Edit] Typing


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## kreynolds (Feb 1, 2003)

Vysirez said:
			
		

> *So you can make an infinite charge wand for just double the price of a 50 charge wand? *




Not really. You can make an infinite charge spelltrigger wondrous item. The pricing formulas don't include that, but I don't see why not. Unlimited charge command-word is double the cost of 50 charges of command word. Unlimited charge use-activated is double the cost of 50 charges of use-activated. A wand of fireball (10th level) with 50 charges would cost 22,500gp. A wand of fireball (10th level) with unlimited charges would cost 45,000gp.

Personally, as a player, unlimited charge items don't appeal that much to me, unless their utilitarian items (like goggles of darkvision or detect magic, a chime of opening, a scabbard of keen edges or flaming, or a ring that constantly grants a minor globe of invulnerability). It's kinda like batman. He's got all these tools, but he rarely ever uses a tool more than once. He'll use it, then discard it and get a new one.


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## dcollins (Feb 1, 2003)

Vysirez said:
			
		

> *So you can make an infinite charge wand for just double the price of a 50 charge wand? *




To quote Monte Cook, "Only if your DM isn't paying attention."
http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly3.html


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## kreynolds (Feb 1, 2003)

dcollins said:
			
		

> *To quote Monte Cook, "Only if your DM isn't paying attention."
> http://www.montecook.com/arch_dmonly3.html *




How is that a relevant reply?


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## Mahali (Feb 1, 2003)

For the same reason it was said in the first place.  

A DM who allows a wand at twice the cost for unlimited charges isn't paying any attention.


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## kreynolds (Feb 2, 2003)

Mahali said:
			
		

> *For the same reason it was said in the first place.
> 
> A DM who allows a wand at twice the cost for unlimited charges isn't paying any attention. *




To what?


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## Lord Pendragon (Feb 2, 2003)

His game, I'd imagine.


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## dcollins (Feb 2, 2003)

I believe the link clarifies it sufficiently (under "How do you figure Market Value"), but you're probably asking rhetorically.


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