# Necromancer Games shutting down next year.(UPDATE post 93)



## Treebore (Feb 28, 2007)

Bill and Clark have announced that due to problems with distributions and the ending of their partnership with White Wolf making distribution even worse of an issue, they will be closing their doors after the current schedule of releases (8 or so) are completed. 

Tegal Manor may not see the light of day at all. They are still trying to find a publishing solution. This will really suck, because it is all done, layed out, etc... Just needs a way to be published.

All announced Kenzer releases will be done, City of Brass/1,001 Efreeti Nights boxed set will be done, etc...

After that they are gone. They may come back with 4E, but only time will tell about that.

So say your good byes. The next GenCon will be their last as Necromancer Games.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Feb 28, 2007)

Holy crap.

I don't know the particulars of their relationships, but is there no hope of merging or being absorbed by someone else, like Goodman Games?


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## BryonD (Feb 28, 2007)

crap


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## Treebore (Feb 28, 2007)

Here is part of the post/thread in which the announcement was made on their boards:


"...The current state of Necro sales is due to several things:

1. Kenzer. Just not doing the job. Period. I have been very disappointed with their sales and their ability to move books. And the scary part is that our books are some of their best sellers. Maybe that was me and Bill mis-evaluating what Kenzer would be able to do for us. But there was no real way to know that.
2. WotC inserting itself into the space that has been traditionally occupied by d20 publishers, and doing so with some excellent products.
3. WW's disappearance from the market and thus no effort on their part to move d20 products.

Here is the reality: without WW, we wouldnt have gotten where we got. Bill and I couldnt have done the distribution and the sales and stuff all by ourselves. It wouldnt have been possible. Not only was it our only viable option, but it was by far our BEST option. Our pair up with WW was the envy of the d20 "industry." People were freaking out trying to get what we had. Now it has come to an end. And, given that Bill and I are part time, most likely Necro has come to an end too. And I am OK with that. I dont have any desire to just tread water in a sea of medicre barely relevant sales. We are finishing out our products that we have committed to do and will most likely bow out. CoB will be our last biggie. Tegel will be there too if we can work out its release. If not, then it wont. And, like I said, I am OK with that. We have had a great run based on an amazing business model and branding strategy that was the envy of the industry. 

Nothing lasts forever.

Clark "


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## green slime (Feb 28, 2007)

Very, very sad state of affairs.

I enjoyed their games.


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## Michael Silverbane (Feb 28, 2007)

That sucks.  I really enjoyed Necromancer's products.


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## Treebore (Feb 28, 2007)

I realize that they are not saying they are absolutely, positively quitting, but with what has been said in the rest of that thread, and as you can see from the excerpt, it is pretty much a done deal.

Only if something comes along that will allow them to continue in a manner that they like will they stay in operation. Or they might come back with 4E, depending on many factors.

So Necromancer is on its way out at this point in time.


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## Shade (Feb 28, 2007)

Bummer.  Necromancer has some quality folks on staff, and put out good products.   

I wish all of them the best with any future pursuits.


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## S'mon (Feb 28, 2007)

Aw, shame.  I may have bought more Mongoose stuff, but Necromancer were my favourite.  My City State of the Invincible Overlord book is on the sofa beside me right now!


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## Rl'Halsinor (Feb 28, 2007)

This is an absolutely sad day indeed.  Necro had some of the best stuff on the market.  Tegel Manor is _this_ close...


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## ShinHakkaider (Feb 28, 2007)

Wow, that's too bad. I really enjoyed most of thier products and am sorry to see them go.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Feb 28, 2007)

Guardians of Order and now Necromancer, I'll miss 'em I've always enjoyed their products.


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## JoeBlank (Feb 28, 2007)

I'll miss Necro, but they certainly have a reason to be proud. Some of the best d20 products.

Thanks for a great run, Necromancer!


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## Belen (Mar 1, 2007)

Necro is the ONE d20 publisher that I would like to see saved.  Maybe if we started a petition to let WW know how much we love NG products.  I would like to do something.


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## hong (Mar 1, 2007)

Hm, this sucks. They put out some great stuff to be sure.


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## philreed (Mar 1, 2007)

Belen said:
			
		

> Necro is the ONE d20 publisher that I would like to see saved.  Maybe if we started a petition to let WW know how much we love NG products.  I would like to do something.




Petitions mean little. To save Necromancer would require everyone to rush out and buy/order tons of products.

Show them you care by helping them raise their sales levels.


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## Fiery James (Mar 1, 2007)

I completely understand their decision, and hope that their presence will still be felt after the lights are turned off.

Clark and Bill have been very good friends to the Fiery Dragon crew, and I hold them in high regard.  They had a great run, and I hope they can look back proudly at what they've accomplished.

- JB


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## Belen (Mar 1, 2007)

philreed said:
			
		

> Petitions mean little. To save Necromancer would require everyone to rush out and buy/order tons of products.
> 
> Show them you care by helping them raise their sales levels.




I already own everything they have released and gotten my local stores to purchase as well.  What else do you want me to do?


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## Aus_Snow (Mar 1, 2007)

Damn.

I'm the proud owner of a nice selection of their books, notably the Tomes of Horrors, and on occasion they've been some of my more useful D&D 3e / d20 fantasy books.

Thanks guys, for doing such good work, and enhancing so many gamers' enjoyment.


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## GeorgeFields (Mar 1, 2007)

real bummer - great products with plenty of the old feel for us long time gamers

They'll be missed.

*Rappan Athuk Forever!!!!!*


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## PapersAndPaychecks (Mar 1, 2007)

Aus_Snow said:
			
		

> Thanks guys, for doing such good work, and enhancing so many gamers' enjoyment.




This bears repeating.


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## Nikosandros (Mar 1, 2007)

PapersAndPaychecks said:
			
		

> This bears repeating.




Yes, it does... I'm sad about the news, but I'm glad for all the great stuff that NG published!


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## FATDRAGONGAMES (Mar 1, 2007)

Phil is absolutely right, the only petition that would make a difference has dead presidents on it.


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## Andre (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> Tegel will be there too if we can work out its release. If not, then it wont. And, like I said, I am OK with that.




Even if they can't publish it in print, at least release it as a pdf - or am I missing something here?

BTW, I agree with so many others - these guys have made some great stuff which made my games better.


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## Olaf the Stout (Mar 1, 2007)

Well that just plain sucks!    

Looks like Goodman Games will basically be the last "biggish" company standing in the D20 landscape.

Are there any other bigger companies that I'm missing?

Olaf the Stout


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## mhensley (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow, bad news.  I've probably run more Necromancer stuff than any other publishers.  Tomb of Abysthor was great.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 1, 2007)

Belen said:
			
		

> I already own everything they have released and gotten my local stores to purchase as well.  What else do you want me to do?



DM's Day gifts!


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## GrayLinnorm (Mar 1, 2007)

Nuts.  I was looking forward to Tome of Horrors 4.

In Memorium


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## Ourph (Mar 1, 2007)

Andre said:
			
		

> Even if they can't publish it in print, at least release it as a pdf - or am I missing something here?




Better than that, I would like to see them put their whole catalog (past, present and upcoming) on a Print On Demand site so that their excellent products will be available to consumers in physical form for a long time to come.  It costs very little and has no overhead to go that route and would at least allow Clark and Bill to continue receiving some small amount of revenue for their past efforts.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 1, 2007)

If they'd put ToM1 up on Lulu.com, I'll be the first customer. And price it to make a profit this time!


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## thedungeondelver (Mar 1, 2007)

Lucky me, right on the cusp of my first project being published. :[


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## mmadsen (Mar 1, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> If they'd put ToM1 up on Lulu.com, I'll be the first customer. And price it to make a profit this time!



Come to think of it, they could probably put their entire catalog of adventure modules into one print-on-demand hardback...


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## Xyanthon (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow, I don't know what to say.  If there was one company in the D20 arena that was on solid ground it was Necro.  Those guys put out some of the best stuff for D20 and I'll be sad to see them go.  Looks like I'll have to go to their site and make some direct purchases for the stuff I wanted but don't have yet.


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## Grimstaff (Mar 1, 2007)

Belen said:
			
		

> Maybe if we started a petition to let WW know how much we love NG products.  I would like to do something.



Well, since WW sold out to an ICELANDIC SCIENCE FICTION COMPUTER GAME COMPANY (!?!?!?) they could care less about d20. They quit caring a long time ago, I think Scarred Lands ended in '05, am I right?

Unfotunately, Necromancer got stuck relying on Kenzer for their distribution. Yeah, remember Kenzer, the company whose new stuff stopped appearing in your FLGS years ago? I guess the lead-poisoned chimpanzees (KODT fans know who I'm talkin about!) in charge of their distribution finally gave up the ghost.


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## PapersAndPaychecks (Mar 1, 2007)

thedungeondelver said:
			
		

> Lucky me, right on the cusp of my first project being published. :[




Someone will buy it, Bill.


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## philreed (Mar 1, 2007)

Belen said:
			
		

> I already own everything they have released and gotten my local stores to purchase as well.  What else do you want me to do?




Reviews. Convince others to buy.

Petitions can be neat and all but it seems that the problem is low sales.

I'm not trying to say "you" haven't done enough. I was just speaking in general.


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## TarionzCousin (Mar 1, 2007)

thedungeondelver said:
			
		

> Lucky me, right on the cusp of my first project being published. :[



Double-crap!   

The first word I thought of upon reading the title of this thread was "crap." I opened the thread and the first two replies used this word. It seems exceedingly appropriate.

Dungeon Delver, maybe this will be a good thing for you. When you take your other stuff to other publishers, maybe they'll say "Oh, [your project name] was yours? I heard it was fantastic, but it didn't quite get printed." Hopefully the mystery will work in your favor. Of course, it feels like crap now....


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## Mechanurge (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow, that's really a shame. I still enjoy reading their titanic Wilderlands of High Fantasy set. Does that mean the Judges' Guild will be gone as well?


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## sakkara (Mar 1, 2007)

Nnnnnooooooooooooooooooooooooo!!!!!!

I am so disappointed, but I can't say I didn't see it coming with the distribution shift from WW to Kenzer.  The books were harder to find, and I have to say physically they felt just a smidge flimsier.

With Monte essentially closing the door on Malhavoc and now Necromancer probably closing, it will make my wallet and my heart heavier.  My wallet is happier, but little else.

Much like some others have eluded to having many Necro books, I have virtually all the books from both company's lines, including the "special" products like Ptolus, Wilderlands boxed set and Rappan Atthuk Reloaded.  

I wish they were still producing books at their old pace -- I'd buy them.  Great match of quality and quantity.  At least Necro will finish out the queue of what have in process -- I guess continuning to buy them can only strengthen any chance they have to hold on.

Sakkara


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## T. Foster (Mar 1, 2007)

Mechanurge said:
			
		

> Wow, that's really a shame. I still enjoy reading their titanic Wilderlands of High Fantasy set. Does that mean the Judges' Guild will be gone as well?



 No. Judges Guild and Necro had already gone their separate ways and _Tegel Manor_ was already scheduled to be Necro's last JG release. Future JG d20 reprints (starting with, I believe, _Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor_) are being done by Goodman Games, and new Wilderlands C&C stuff is being done by James Mishler's company (Adventure Games, or something like that?).


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## Mark CMG (Mar 1, 2007)

I wish them the best of luck in their future endeavors.


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## greywulf (Mar 1, 2007)

Sad news indeed. I wish them all the best for the future. You can't keep a good Necromancer down for long.

One day, just maybe we'll hear the cry: "4th Edition rules, 3rd Edition feel!"

So long, and thanks for all the great stuff. My gaming group and I owe you much happiness.


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## trancejeremy (Mar 1, 2007)

I'm sorry to hear that. I haven't liked their more recent products (and completely missed most of the recent ones, since they seem to be in stealth mode when it comes to PR - if not for Treebore, I suspect people would think they went out of business a couple years ago), but their early stuff is some of my favorites.

Still, I can't blame them.  d20 is pretty much dying, in terms of non-WOTC stuff, in part perhaps because of just people are probably getting tired of it, but also because WOTC is moving more towards modules themselves, which cuts into the remaining area of d20 profitability (or so it seems).


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Mar 1, 2007)

That sucks.


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## replicant2 (Mar 1, 2007)

That's too bad. I feel diminished as a gamer when any publisher of gaming material goes under.

That said, I wonder if this is an inevitable by-product of too many choices in too limited a market. I don't own any Necromancer Games products (though I've meant to pick up a module or two), but I do own several Goodman Games modules from the Dungeon Crawl Classic line. Between those, Dungeon magazine, and now WOTC once again, the market for modules already seems fairly saturated.

I know Necromancer makes other products, but modules seemed to be a large portion of their line.


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## Vocenoctum (Mar 1, 2007)

T. Foster said:
			
		

> No. Judges Guild and Necro had already gone their separate ways and _Tegel Manor_ was already scheduled to be Necro's last JG release. Future JG d20 reprints (starting with, I believe, _Thieves of Fortress Badabaskor_) are being done by Goodman Games, and new Wilderlands C&C stuff is being done by James Mishler's company (Adventure Games, or something like that?).




This sort of sums up the problem I think. How many publishers did they have to deal with...

I'm not a NecroFan, though the folks were friendly/ knowledgeable enough, but I can imagine the business could get pretty frustrating for them.


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## Bregh (Mar 1, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> That sucks.




I agree.

I don't run d20 games, and I enthusiastically buy NG products because the material's worth doing the backwards conversion.

Man, what a bummer.


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## Klaus (Mar 1, 2007)

I'm proud to have been published in the Tome of Horrors.

Bill & Clark's Excellent Adventure in d20 Publishing won't be forgotten.


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## Twowolves (Mar 1, 2007)

Man, this REALLY sucks. Necromancer and Green Ronin were the first to hit with quality d20 material, and still are the best. I have almost everything they put out, before the mind-boggling switch to Kenzer for distribution. Products that were in the pipline for which I was eagerly awaiting were "released" by Kenzer, so hush-hush, so in-the-dead-of-night, under the radar, that I thought they were cancelled and never released. 

I hope something changes this, but can't imagine what that might be. The 3rd party d20 market is awfully lonely, now that one of the first and greatest has been silenced.


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## William Ronald (Mar 1, 2007)

Sad news, indeed.  

I wish everyone at Necromancer Games the best.  Thanks for your hard work and your good products.


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## Shadowslayer (Mar 1, 2007)

Thats too bad. I think Necromancer's influence really helped make 3x more palatable for a lot of us old-schoolers. They will be sadly missed.


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## Alzrius (Mar 1, 2007)

This really makes me sad. _The Wizard's Amulet_ and its follow-up adventure _The Crucible of Freya_ were the first d20 adventures I ever ran for my group. I still remember getting my first TPK in Rappan Athuk (the black skeletons on the second level butchered them). The first RPG-related article I ever had published in any form was A Brief History of Orcus, hostedon their website. I'm really going to miss Clark and Bill, and all of Necromancer Games. Given that they were "Third Edition Rules, First Edition Feel," then this feeling must be how the 1E gamers felt when 2E was announced...  

EDIT: Does anyone know if the Necromancer Games website will be removed when they close their doors? There's a lot of great free stuff there, as well as web enhancements for various products that I haven't bought yet, but want to in the future.


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## Ry (Mar 1, 2007)

This can't be the same Necromancer games that gave me Vault of Larin Karr and Lost City of Barakus ...

Can it?


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

replicant2 said:
			
		

> That's too bad. I feel diminished as a gamer when any publisher of gaming material goes under.
> 
> That said, I wonder if this is an inevitable by-product of too many choices in too limited a market. I don't own any Necromancer Games products (though I've meant to pick up a module or two), but I do own several Goodman Games modules from the Dungeon Crawl Classic line. Between those, Dungeon magazine, and now WOTC once again, the market for modules already seems fairly saturated.
> 
> I know Necromancer makes other products, but modules seemed to be a large portion of their line.




Lower sales is definitely a part of it. However they were never looking to be a big profit maker. This was done as a "hobby" for them so their money making goals were just to make enough to pay everyone and to show enough to keep their wives off their backs about the time they spent doing it.

The "back breaker" is two fold. WW selling out and cancelling their partnership with Necromancer. The second fold is that Kenzer has failed to get the modules out and visible to the general consumer, along with their own product lines.

I don't know why that is, and I love the Kalamar line, I even own a lot of the books and the awesome DM Screen (4 copies of that baby!). All I know is that Kenzer has had low visibility in gaming stores across the country for the last 3/4/5 years. So when I heard of Necro partnering with Kenzer I was afraid it was going to be a bad move.

Then WW was bought. 

Like Clark says, though, if your going to go out you may as well do it while your still in good shape and on your own terms.

So yes, I am seriously bummed about this. I can only hope that something happens to keep them around before they actually close their doors. They have been my kind of company and published my kind of adventures. How can anyone not miss something like that?

At least we have 8 more products from Kenzer, plus the GenCon releases, and hopefully Tegal Manor, before the end will actually be here. Plus my daughters art work will be in 4 of those 8. 

Its going to be a bitter sweet year for me.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> They have been my kind of company and published my kind of adventures. How can anyone not miss something like that?




Hear hear, I want my D&D to be old school, and along with Goodman Games they did it in spades.   This is just too bad.


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## froggie (Mar 1, 2007)

*Not exactly*

We are slowing down, and there are 8 releases (Kenzer) and 2 releases (WW) left BEFORE we decide what we will do....don't bury me alive in the coffin yet. Likely we will slow it down quite a bit, but as long as David wants to publish my books, I'll keep them rolling...like Clark said, we are looking at re-entry once (or if) the market improves. If sales justify staying around...e.g. paying the writer's at least some money and ourselves enough to buy-off our wives, then I'll keep doing this.

Bill


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## DaveMage (Mar 1, 2007)

froggie said:
			
		

> We are slowing down, and there are 8 releases (Kenzer) and 2 releases (WW) left BEFORE we decide what we will do....don't bury me alive in the coffin yet. Likely we will slow it down quite a bit, but as long as David wants to publish my books, I'll keep them rolling...like Clark said, we are looking at re-entry once (or if) the market improves. If sales justify staying around...e.g. paying the writer's at least some money and ourselves enough to buy-off our wives, then I'll keep doing this.
> 
> Bill




You sell it, I'll buy it.   

(Unless it really sucks, of course.        )


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## LightPhoenix (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> The "back breaker" is two fold. WW selling out and cancelling their partnership with Necromancer. The second fold is that Kenzer has failed to get the modules out and visible to the general consumer, along with their own product lines.




Someone asked upthread if the shutting down was a sign of too many choices for a limited product.  Of course that answer is no, it's a sign of things just not lining up, and a sign of mismanagement by Necromancer's partners.  Boo partners, boo.

However, I can see where "too much product" would be responsible for Kenzer not being able to move books.  I happen to be lucky enough to live in a city where the main gaming stores have always had a lot of space - our current one is literally the basement of a warehouse (also RIP Twilight).  However, many of the FLGS's, and many of the chains, just don't have enough room to keep books on shelves, card games, and miniatures (product), plus play space, storage space, and work space.  A game store won't not carry WotC, so if that's all the room they have, Kenzer gets cut.


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## froggie (Mar 1, 2007)

*hehe*

Nope, they won't siuck, but the books I have I am obligated (honor among writers) to publish. After several hundred hours of editing and writing by many folks, I want them in the stores. If all else fails and no one will do them, heck, I'll sell pdfs


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## Psion (Mar 1, 2007)

Ah, man... 

They were the last shining hope of d20 OGL products to me. Count this as a sad day for me.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 1, 2007)

Please do consider POD, at least for back catalog stuff like ToH1.


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## der_kluge (Mar 1, 2007)

Wow.  This sucks.

Necromancer stuff is among my most favorite.  That's saying a lot coming from me. I have extremely high standards for the stuff I use in my campaign. And I don't consider WoTC stuff among that set, actually.  Most of my stuff is Necromancer stuff.

If Tegel Manor doesn't get published, it has to at least go to pdf.  I need more Wilderlands stuff!!


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## Nightfall (Mar 1, 2007)

GeoFFields said:
			
		

> *Rappan Athuk Forever!!!!!*




Amen to that. Clark Peterson is my own personal Orcus.

I also blame WW for selling out. :x


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## skeetyrbug (Mar 1, 2007)

Its not quite over yet guys. Lets wait a bit and see how things shake out.


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

Well Bill is a very positive "can do" kind of guy, so if Necromancer stays "open", Bill definitely has the drive to do so. I don't know about Clark, I have never met him in person. Being a Prosecuter I am sure he is a "make it happen" kind of person, so I'm sure everything that can be done, will be done, to keep Necromancer going.

So hopefully things will turn around by the time the "final" decision has to be made. A lot can happen in a year or so. Hopefully some really good stuff, that keeps Necromancer going.


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## bowbe (Mar 1, 2007)

*You Do know...*

You guys do know that Froggie is Bill Webb the other half of Necromancer Games's brain trust right folks? You know, the guy at Gen Con buying pitchers and chicken wings, and cackling as players get turned to ashes. It never fails to give me a chuckle when I see him post something and everyone continues to move along with their same line of script as if he said nothing at all! Hahaha. 

I really can't imagine Bill doing anything else. 

As he said, don't toss the earth on the coffin just yet.

If anything I feel more Undead than ever. 

Case


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> At least we have 8 more products from Kenzer, plus the GenCon releases, and hopefully Tegal Manor, before the end will actually be here. Plus my daughters art work will be in 4 of those 8.




I am hopeful still.  If Froggie says not to hammer the nails in the coffin, then I loiter in the shadows like a ghoul, awaiting more.

BTW, what are these remaining products?


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

bowbe said:
			
		

> You guys do know that Froggie is Bill Webb the other half of Necromancer Games's brain trust right folks? You know, the guy at Gen Con buying pitchers and chicken wings, and cackling as players get turned to ashes. It never fails to give me a chuckle when I see him post something and everyone continues to move along with their same line of script as if he said nothing at all! Hahaha.
> 
> I really can't imagine Bill doing anything else.
> 
> ...




True Case, but they need to have reliable publishing, and to sell enough units to make it worth their time and effort, at least for their wives. Without WW that isn't going to happen, because Kenzer is not getting enough market sales.

So what we really need is for Necromancer to find a publisher to work with who can sell enough product to keep the Necromancer wives happy.

Every publisher suggestion I have seen thrown at them has been a "no".

So Bill wants to keep things going, and presumable so does Clark, but they have to find a way to publish and still operate the way they do. Not an easy combo to find.

So the big question that needs to be answered is does a publisher exist that Necromancer can work with?

Unless such a publisher is found, or Bill/froggie/Tsathogga decides to do his own publishing, what is Necromancer supposed to do?

I agree pdf is better than nothing, but it still isn't nearly as good as still being a print company. Plus I repeatedly hear/read how little money is made with pdf only.

Hopefully they will talk with Goodman, Expeditious Retreat, Green Ronin, or any other company I am not thinking of right now, that can publish for Necromancer. I say these three because they have all shown a willingness to do such partnerships.


We have over a year to find out. I hope it ends up not being an ending.


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

catsclaw227 said:
			
		

> I am hopeful still.  If Froggie says not to hammer the nails in the coffin, then I loiter in the shadows like a ghoul, awaiting more.
> 
> BTW, what are these remaining products?




Let me quote Michael P.'s post in the other thread:

"Despite Clark's announcement, Bill Webb has said he intends to see everything already in the pipeline get into print if he can. There are a few new products coming out in the next few months-Elemental Moon by Lance Hawvermale, Ari's Tome of Artifacts through WW, Nate Paul's follow up to Greay Citadel-The Eamonvale Incursion, Greg Vauhn's Slumbering Tsar, and the City of Brass boxed set at Gen Con. Tegel is still possible if soemthigns can worked out. I don't think Necro is going to disappear overnight."


Slumbering Tsar is a 3 part series. Other than that I can't remember titles for the other Kenzer/Necromancer releases.


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## w_earle_wheeler (Mar 1, 2007)

Can you post a link to this thread you're talking about?


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 1, 2007)

Elemental Moon is available as a PDF now at RPGNow.com.

I would buy Tegel in a millisecond if it was made PDF and posted, as well as any other releases they may have/want.

I still hope that the NecroAP gets off the ground and gets published, even as PDF.  The EN Publishing one is pretty good, though I don't know how well sales are going.


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## trancejeremy (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> So Bill wants to keep things going, and presumable so does Clark, but they have to find a way to publish and still operate the way they do. Not an easy combo to find.
> 
> So the big question that needs to be answered is does a publisher exist that Necromancer can work with?




I don't mean to sound critical, but it seems like the 2 Necromancer guys want to get full time profits/sales of their stuff, while only working part time on the company.  Which they could do when White Wolf was handling the press, printing and distribution and all that for them.  But it seems rather unfair when you have other companies like Goodman and Green Ronin who are "surviving" as one of the Necro guys put it rather patronizingly, but working at it full time:



> And I am not interested in "surviving" which is what Goodman and others are doing. I dont want to do that. I want to be an industry leader, which is what Necro always has been. If we cant do that, there is little reason to be in the game in my view. "Just being there" isnt enough for me.




From:

http://p208.ezboard.com/fnecromancergamesfrm9.showMessageRange?topicID=459.topic&start=221&stop=240

At the risk of sounding like a jerk, I don't think it's reasonable to expect to be the "industry leader" without working on it full time.  And if that's not something Necromancer is willing to do, then they shouldn't be putting down other companies that are. Nor should they expect other companies to help. 

I mean, c'mon, Necromancer can't even seem to update its own website. That doesn't take a whole lot of effort. Yet they seem baffled when no one knows they have new products out, and blame Kenzer for the problems.


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## meomwt (Mar 1, 2007)

froggie said:
			
		

> If all else fails and no one will do them, heck, I'll sell pdfs




Darn it Bill, you know I'm into PDF's - why do you have to tempt me like this


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## meomwt (Mar 1, 2007)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> I mean, c'mon, Necromancer can't even seem to update its own website. That doesn't take a whole lot of effort. Yet they seem baffled when no one knows they have new products out, and blame Kenzer for the problems.




Their webmaster went MIA about a year ago, and finding a new one has been difficult. It's not like they don't want to update it, it's just that they haven't got someone to do so full time.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 1, 2007)

Grr. . . dammit. I parted with my Necromancer books late last year thinking that I could easily re-purchase them later, but if they're closign their doors, I doubt if most of what I owned (if any of it) sees subsequent printings. 

On a less selfish note, I'm truly saddened by the departure of Necromancer, but not horribly surprised. . . I suspect that companies like AEG, Atlas, and White Wolf getting out of d20 and others (like Mongoose) diverging into new markets are signs of things to come.


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## TheGM (Mar 1, 2007)

Bregh said:
			
		

> I don't run d20 games, and I enthusiastically buy NG products because the material's worth doing the backwards conversion.
> 
> Man, what a bummer.




Same here. There are not many current 3.5 products I'll buy, but Necro products were a must-have. Only I did a lateral conversion - to C&C.

I'll miss 'em, but they have to do what they have to do.

Oh and Bill, no worries, it'll get picked up. The target market for your work is... broad, and spans systems. Might take some work, but it'll sell either way.

Don.


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## Greenstone (Mar 1, 2007)

Sad indeed....

After fighting off the inevitable and sticking with my homebrew/AD&D rules for several years, player pressure finally got me to embrace d20...

... but every d20 adventure I saw, I hated... especially the trite WoTC offerings....

... so no campaign... and the players are wailing...

Then I bought LCoB... and I loved it, and we played it, and the player's loved it... so we hit FotWK... and now I'm on the lookout for what to do thereafter at 10th level....

So thanks, Necromancer, for getting me back into 'mainstream' gaming with your great products...

I would imagine that when a DM admits that if it wasn't for the purchase of one of your books, his group would still be playing poker every Thursday night, it's the best praise a publisher could hope for.

Thanks again
CMG, South Africa


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## DJCupboard (Mar 1, 2007)

So, I've been putting off buying Necro stuff for, oh seven years now, at first due to some strange compunction to only buy WotC 3.x, and then due to a lack of real playing.  I've always wanted the Rappan Athuk stuff, and I think this will finally be the push I need to buy Reloaded.  What else would be considered the essential Necromancer products?  I'm not too sure I need any more monster books, but a sufficiently hyped review of ToH (or any of its sequels) could change my mind.  Also, is the City of Brass boxed set out yet?

I'd say, buy everything! we must save the staples of our hobby! but I'm a new father, so budget does need to be a consideration.

DJC


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## Nightfall (Mar 1, 2007)

*thinks Trance must be living somewhere in a very dark cave to have said that...*


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## Garnfellow (Mar 1, 2007)

I’ve been following these developments over on the Necromancer boards, so I’m not shocked by the news but certainly saddened by it. When the WW sale was first announced, I had no idea it would have such a disastrous effect on such an excellent company.

Necromancer Games ("Third Edition Rules, First Edition Feel") and Green Ronin ("d20  Rules Done Right") have always struck me as the two very best third party sources for d20 fantasy material, companies that have truly embodied their respective taglines. And it bums me out that the market just isn't there for their most excellent products.

I own and have used a ton of Necromancer stuff. The Tome of Horrors has probably gotten more use than all my other monster books combined, excluding the MM itself. The boxed Wilderlands set is amazing. Every time I pick it up I walk away with 2 or 3 good adventure ideas.

I can easily envision people in the not-too-distant future looking back on the last 7 years as a real golden age of gaming, and pointing to Necromancer specifically as one of the great companies from that era. It's a crying shame that so few people have understood and appreciated just how good we all have had it during this period.


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## PatrickLawinger (Mar 1, 2007)

Folks, I think some of Clark's honest musings on the Necromancer Boards have lead to a bit of overreaction.

We have a year+ worth of books in production right now. This means that Necro is planning to have books coming out through to the beginning of '08.

Fans get upset when we don't announce or talk about things early enough, but when someone decides to post some honest opinions about the future, they get "interpreted" and the "news" runs away in its own direction. 

History of the gaming industry, buying cycles, etc. indicate there will be a 4th edition sometime within the next few years, but the question remains when will it be and what will it be? Necro does not have other licensed systems to fall back on, we are unabashedly an adventure/fantasy d20/DnD-related company. When 4th edition is announced, what its relation to the OGL and any trademark license might be, etc. Bill and Clark will be able to make better and more informed decisions about the future. Right now we believe we have enough products in the pipeline to take us up to the point of some sort of announcement about 4e (what, where, when, OGL, etc.). Yeah, Bill and Clark are very busy, but frankly, they love this stuff so much that the worst I see right now is a bit of a slow down in production so that a bit more time can be spent on promotion, etc.

Patrick


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## Mark Plemmons (Mar 1, 2007)

Grimstaff said:
			
		

> Unfotunately, Necromancer got stuck relying on Kenzer for their distribution. Yeah, remember Kenzer, the company whose new stuff stopped appearing in your FLGS years ago? I guess the lead-poisoned chimpanzees (KODT fans know who I'm talkin about!) in charge of their distribution finally gave up the ghost.




I think what Clark meant is that the Kenzer and Company brand just didn't produce the results we all hoped for, not that he thinks we failed to get books or information to the distributors as we should have.

The layout, printing and warehousing services that we provide for the Necromancer books are solid.  In fact, we were able to significantly reduce their production costs, which allowed the release of adventures that otherwise might never have seen the light of day, or that might have been published at a loss.

Our _HackMaster_, _D&D: Kingdoms of Kalamar_, _Knights of the Dinner Table_ and other RPG, board game and card game lines are handled by all of the major RPG distributors, and most of the minor ones - and we solicit Necromancer products exactly as we do with our own in-house product.  We're not Necromancer's marketing or advertising company, of course, but we do the best we can to make sure the distributors know about the KenzerCo/Necromancer releases!

Unfortunately, lately I've been hearing more and more horror stories of sales reps being completely ignorant (intentionally or not) about what their own employer supplies from us game manufacturers. Too many reps prefer to push big name/fast selling products (such as D&D minis) to retailers and ignore the small stuff, since their commission will be much greater.  Whenever we get details of a specific incident, we jump on it immediately, but we only hear about them when customers or stores tell us.

Also, the KenzerCo fans simply didn't flock to the Necromancer books as much as we expected.  We pulled back on our RPG release schedule over the last year or so, releasing primarily The Great Space Race (one of Games Magazine's Top 100 board games of the year, by the way) and Tech Support card game.  We had hoped that the Necromancer books would help fill the RPG void while our upcoming products (the _Aces & Eights: Shattered Frontier_ western RPG leathered hardcover, the _Kingdoms of Kalamar_ regional supplement "_Svimohzia: the Ancient Isle_" hardcover, _HackMaster_ adventures like "_Dead Gawd's Hand_" and "_Lost Order_") came into the pipeline.

I'm very hopeful that Necromancer will continue to release the 10 or so more projects we have planned together – and since it may be a year or more before the last of these sees print, you won't be seeing the release schedule dry up anytime soon.  Still, no matter what happens, I don't think you've heard the last of Necromancer Games!


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## Zulgyan (Mar 1, 2007)

Necro - Best D&D 3E publisher ever.


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## Nightfall (Mar 1, 2007)

*agrees with Zug*

Btw Mark I don't blame you (or Kenzer Company either for that matter) so much as I blame White Wolf for being stupid. Honestly, WW had/has a gold mine with Necromancer Games but they have flittered it away by saying "Oh lookie! We are soo cool! We must keep our coolness by being so darn gothy and edgy!"


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## Maggan (Mar 1, 2007)

Mark Plemmons said:
			
		

> IStill, no matter what happens, I don't think you've heard the last of Necromancer Games!




That was a classy post. I was afraid of an intercompany shoutfest, and your reply put my fears to rest.

Now I'll just buy a few of your books to show appreciation ... no, wait, I already bought them all! Bummer  

/M


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## Maggan (Mar 1, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Honestly, WW had/has a gold mine with Necromancer Games but they have flittered it away by saying "Oh lookie! We are soo cool! We must keep our coolness by being so darn gothy and edgy!"




I'd rather say that if WW had a gold mine with Necro, then they have a million gold mines after teaming up with the EVE Online gang.

From an economic standpoint, not focussing their dollars on the computer deal would be stupid. Immensly stupid.

/M


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## Ogrork the Mighty (Mar 1, 2007)

This is a real shame and I'm truly sorry to hear it. NG was my favourite 3rd party publisher by far. In fact, they were pretty much the only one I would buy from besides WotC. I really loved their "3rd Edition Rules, 1st Edition Feel" style and I have most of the adventures.

I hope they come back in some incarnation if they do indeed close their doors.


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## Belen (Mar 1, 2007)

I am not sure Mark.  I cannot list a single game store in my area that carries Kenzer products.  I have to tell stores that Necro stuff is not associated with Kalamar in order for them to stock it.


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## Nightfall (Mar 1, 2007)

Maggan,

So far I've yet to see, other than maybe World of Warcraft, any MMoRPG pay off in any significant fashion.

WW joint stuff with EVE online is just one of the things I had an issue with. The very major issue to me is the fact they basically shelved d20 in favor of NWoD which to me is silly. Since Exalted has done way better and been more widely used. They should have just stuck with Exalted and moved along with d20.


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## Twowolves (Mar 1, 2007)

Since 3rd ed hit the stores, I've lived in Texas, Maryland, and Tennessee, and have hit dozens of hobby stores in each area and know what they had on the shelf and when. As soon as Kenzer took over distribution for Necromancer Games, they disappeared from the shelves. I thought "Vampires and Liches" had been cancelled, and I was waiting eagerly for it for a long long time. Stores that carried every single NG release suddenly had none, and it was timed precisely to the point that Kenzer took over distribution.

I'm not saying it's anyone's fault, but from where I stand, it's pretty telling emperical evidence of a problem with getting product to interested and eager buyers (like myself).


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## Turjan (Mar 1, 2007)

PatrickLawinger said:
			
		

> Folks, I think some of Clark's honest musings on the Necromancer Boards have lead to a bit of overreaction.



I wait for the first one to accuse Bill of disturbing this moment of tragic drama .

I'm still looking forward to quite a few releases of the next year .


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## Nightfall (Mar 1, 2007)

Tur,

yeah like Slumbering Tsar and the City of Brass box set.


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

UPDATE from Clark




OK, this is all my fault.

See, this is why companies dont usually share their thoughts and feelings before things are finally decided. Because stuff like this happens.

We are not dead. And it is my fault for sharing my thoughts on these boards. I should have just kept my mouth shut until Bill and I finally decided what we were doing.

There are still several options. Good ones, frankly. And we are exploring them. 

I was just musing that the likely course is us winding down. And I was sharing that with all of you like I would with friends over a beer. The problem is, though these boards may feel to me like a talk with friends over a beer, they are public boards. And when I say the stuff I say, people take it as official pronoucnements. And I dont blame you. 

The bottom line is this: if we HAD to stop, I am OK with that. I am proud of our accomplishments. And I dont want to just tread water. Necro is about more than that. And if that is the way things go, then that is how they go. And that is OK. 

BUT this decision isnt final. Sorry if I have sounded gloomy. I have simply done a rational review of the circumstances. 

I also agree with some of the prior posts that it would be great for Bill and I to do an adventure. We are strongly considering that.

I think all of this got started with the suspension of the Necro adventure path. With our partnership with WW ending, that threw that project into doubt. Until we had new and solid distributorship lined up I couldnt ask people to dedicate the time and expense to work on a project that might not happen. That is a very unique project. 

Clark


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## Frilf (Mar 1, 2007)

Well, this thread has been an emotional roller coaster ride.  I'm glad to hear you're thinking about sticking it out, guys.  Your company, products, and people are simply class all the way! Hang in there!


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

I don't see the sharing as a bad thing. It may have been just the thing that needed to happen to help them find good solutions.

Like I have said before, we have a year or so to see how things play out. Now that more people are aware of the issues Necromancer are facing and the questions they need answered, I think they are more likely to meet up with someone who has the right answers.

So lets all keep our eyes and ears open and see if we can help Necromancer find the right people to fix their problems.

It isn't like they need money, they just need different partners/business relations to keep things going. It can't be so hard to do as to be impossible.

Yeah, I think Necromancer is going be sticking around.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 1, 2007)

They still need to stick ToH1 on Lulu.com for print-on-demand at an actual profitable cost.


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## Nightfall (Mar 1, 2007)

I thought it was at a reasonable cost on DTR myself...

Btw thanks for the updates Tree.


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## senodam (Mar 1, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> WW joint stuff with EVE online is just one of the things I had an issue with. The very major issue to me is the fact they basically shelved d20 in favor of NWoD which to me is silly. Since Exalted has done way better and been more widely used. They should have just stuck with Exalted and moved along with d20.




Given that WoD is/was/will be White Wolf's best known and longest running game line, I can't really see them shelving it in favour of D20 anytime soon...especially not since that would annoy and alienate just as many (if not more) fans than their dropping of the D20 lines.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 1, 2007)

Maggan said:
			
		

> I'd rather say that if WW had a gold mine with Necro, then they have a million gold mines after teaming up with the EVE Online gang.
> 
> From an economic standpoint, not focussing their dollars on the computer deal would be stupid. Immensly stupid.
> 
> /M




I'll echo this sentiment. 

A lot of people bag on White Wolf for going where the money is, but as a business, they _must_ do this if they want to keep their doors open. They could have stuck to their current, non-profit, generating business model and wound up like Eden Studios (whose release schedule largely stalled more than a year ago and who has since lost the license for their best selling game line) or AEG (who is dangerously close to pinting no RPGs at all). White Wolf did what it had to do to stay afloat. 

Rather than damning WW for making the decisions that they did, people should start looking at _why_ they made those decisions -- the bottom has virtually fallen out of the market for physical third-party d20 supplements, which is why WW isn't alone in abandoning them. Atlas Games stopped publishing them _entirely_, as did AEG. Companies like Mongoose have started supporting other game lines, while cutting back on d20 releases. These choices weren't made without good reason. 

Me? I'd rather see good publishers drop what doesn't earn them money and stick around to do other stuff in the future than cut their own throat to placate a bunch of selfish fans. Silly White Wolf for choosing to focus its efforts on the games that earn it the most money (e.g., NWoD, Exalted) and seeking to broaden their horizons via the EVE merger. I mean, _what's up with them trying to stay in business_! _LAAAAAAAAAME_!


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## Treebore (Mar 1, 2007)

jdrakeh said:
			
		

> I'll echo this sentiment.
> 
> A lot of people bag on White Wolf for going where the money is, but as a business, they _must_ do this if they want to keep their doors open. They could have stuck to their current, non-profit, generating business model and wound up like Eden Studios (whose release schedule largely stalled more than a year ago and who has since lost the license for their best selling game line) or AEG (who is dangerously close to pinting no RPGs at all). White Wolf did what it had to do to stay afloat.
> 
> ...




My question is if this EVE partnership is so lucrative why did they have to sever their ties with Necromancer?


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## CaptainChaos (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> My question is if this EVE partnership is so lucrative why did they have to sever their ties with Necromancer?




From the comments of the Necro guys and other d20 publishers, it seems clear that sales on d20 stuff is down massively from where it used to be. WW probably figured this was a good time to trim away the stuff that wasn't selling well enough.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 1, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> My question is if this EVE partnership is so lucrative why did they have to sever their ties with Necromancer?




They've severed their ties with d20 in general, presumably because it was costing them more to publish for d20 than it was generating in profits. That is, they severed their ties with Necromancer, not because EVE, the NWoD, and Exalted fail to perform for them, but because _d20_ no longer performs for them. 

They're doing what businesses do -- investing heavily in what earns them them a financial return and withdrawing their financial support from endeavors no longer earning them money (in this case, the publication of d20 products). Basically, it was just another day at the office, not the personal snub that some people are making it out to be. 

This isn't to say that d20 doesn't still perform for other publishers, merely that it wasn't performing for White Wolf anymore. They were simply putting more into it than they were getting out of it, thus business sense demanded that they cut their losses (much as Atlas Games and AEG did).


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## green slime (Mar 1, 2007)

Well then! A cautious "yippee!" is perhaps in order?


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## Belen (Mar 1, 2007)

jdrakeh said:
			
		

> They've severed their ties with d20 in general, presumably because it was costing them more to publish for d20 than it was generating in profits. That is, they severed their ties with Necromancer, not because EVE, the NWoD, and Exalted fail to perform for them, but because _d20_ no longer performs for them.
> 
> They're doing what businesses do -- investing heavily in what earns them them a financial return and withdrawing their financial support from endeavors no longer earning them money (in this case, the publication of d20 products). Basically, it was just another day at the office, not the personal snub that some people are making it out to be.
> 
> This isn't to say that d20 doesn't still perform for other publishers, merely that it wasn't performing for White Wolf anymore. They were simply putting more into it than they were getting out of it, thus business sense demanded that they cut their losses (much as Atlas Games and AEG did).




Funny enough, the game stores in my area were willing to carry the d20 stuff, but refuse to order the WoD items.  The new WoD is not popular around here.


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## froggie (Mar 1, 2007)

*Lulu . com*

Whizbang...I'll look into it


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Mar 1, 2007)

White Wolf is still doing D20 material, unless World of Warcraft and Monte Cook's World of Darkness have suddenly been turned into Storyteller games.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 1, 2007)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> White Wolf is still doing D20 material, unless World of Warcraft and Monte Cook's World of Darkness have suddenly been turned into Storyteller games.




I didn't say that they'd quit entirely, only that they cut back significantly and were moving away from it in general  Note also that Monte Cook's WoD is a d20 conversion of a non-d20 property -- I think that they're hedging their bets on that that one (hopefully it is better than their previous Storyteller to d20 conversions). 

[Edit: I see where that (i.e., my intent to declare that WW was taking significant steps  away from d20, not abandoning it completely) might not have been clearly conveyed in my cited post. As it stands, they currently have only _two_ d20 products in their future releases queue -- the _Tome of Artifacts_ and the WoD conversion.]

Regarding NWoD popularity, I believe that it's currently the #3 or #4 best-selling game line according to the polls of retailers conducted by Comics & Games Retailer (no, the polls aren't perfect, but they're far less skewed than an Amazon-only poll or an eBay search). Locally (here in the Springs), I think that it clocks in just behind D&D and Exalted in terms of popularity.


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## cnath.rm (Mar 1, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> I thought it was at a reasonable cost on DTR myself...
> 
> Btw thanks for the updates Tree.



Does DTR offer PoD hardcopy?


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## Mystaros (Mar 1, 2007)

Mechanurge said:
			
		

> Wow, that's really a shame. I still enjoy reading their titanic Wilderlands of High Fantasy set. Does that mean the Judges' Guild will be gone as well?




Mechanurge,

Tegel Manor is scheduled to be the last Judges Guild product produced by Necromancer Games; I sincerely hope they can release it in the deluxe format they have planned, as it will be a seriously kick-ass product.

Goodman Games, through Eostros (the Geilman's company) will release updated, revised versions of classic Judges Guild adventure modules.

Adventure Games Publishing (my company) will release all-new products designed and licensed for use with Castles & Crusades, starting with the Free RPG Day 16-page booklet, Tell Qa: Northern Bastion of the Falling Empire in June. After that the plan is to release Ravaged Ruins of the Roglaras, followed by (I think) a general, broad gazetteer for the ENTIRE continent of the Wilderlands (an area the size 270 campaign maps, or 15 total Wilderlands). The plan will be to release further Wilderness books and new modules for the Wilderlands proper, and gazetteers covering nine campaign maps worth of each of the "other" sections of the world (i.e., each gazetteer would cover an area the size of nine campaign maps, with a 15-mile per hex map, with detail somewhere between that of the classic booklets and the current boxed set). The first of those gazetteers will probably cover the Kingdom of Karak and the Demon Empires. The Wilderness books will start with the Falling Empire of Viridistan, and each would have 18 to 24 hex maps like in the Mines of Custalcon, Shield Maidens of Sea Rune, and so forth. The first Wilderness book will probably cover the core of Smyrsis Province, to tie in with the Tell Qa booklet.

After that, I dunno. Also, somewhere in there, a Castles & Crusades book on Psychic powers, a monster book or two, and maybe a book or two on cultures and/or histories of the Wilderlands. Plus a couple of modules.

That is, when I can get to it all. I'm already way behind my planned schedule, but the day job comes first (gotta pay the bills; my landlord doesn't accept payments in unsold merchandise) Pray for me to win the lottery... boy, will I have a field day in this industry!


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## Mystaros (Mar 1, 2007)

jdrakeh said:
			
		

> Regarding NWoD popularity, I believe that it's currently the #3 or #4 best-selling game line according to the polls of retailers conducted by Comics & Games Retailer (no, the polls aren't perfect, but they're far less skewed than an Amazon-only poll or an eBay search). Locally (here in the Springs), I think that it clocks in just behind D&D and Exalted in terms of popularity.




Yup, I have the State of the Gaming Industry article in the issue that should be hitting stores this week, and NWoD + Exalted (i.e., essentially everything WW did in 2006 that registered even a blip in sales) came in at the #2 position. Here's the general breakdown for 2006 RPG sales in market share (hobby stores only, not counting big box or mass market or PDF or direct to consumer):

#1: Wizards of the Coast: 58.37%
#2: White Wolf: 12.79%
#3: Palladium Books: 3.92%
#4: Goodman Games: 2.96%
#5: Troll Lord Games: 2.50%
#6: Mongoose: 2.34%
#7: Green Ronin: 2.04%
Less than 2% but greater than 1%: MWP, Privateer, Black Industries, FanPro, Hero Games, and Steve Jackson Games.

This measures sales by units, not by dollars. If it were by dollars, WotC and WW would ahve even bigger shares, as their products generally have higher MSRP's and can be sold for that price much more often at stores than second-tier products, which are more often discounted, especially backstock products.

Note that this measures what retailers sold to consumers; not what retailers bought from distributors, nor what distributors bought from publishers. A LOT of the sales of Palladium products in 2006 were backstock, based on the appeal to the fans made by Palladium. Of course, that only worked until everyone was satiated, and then sales dropped again, waiting for new product to release...

That's one of the problems with Necromancer, is that their fans have mostly already bought everything they released; they need to grow, but in order to grow, they need to generate new fans, and there's only so much you can do without having a big marketing budget...


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## Monte At Home (Mar 2, 2007)

jdrakeh said:
			
		

> Note also that Monte Cook's WoD is a d20 conversion of a non-d20 property.




Really?


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## jdrakeh (Mar 2, 2007)

Monte At Home said:
			
		

> Really?




Well, that's purely speculation, but the early promo threads and ad copy seemed to suggest as much. If this isn't the case, I apologize. That said, if this isn't the case, it also means that White Wolf has announced only _one_ future d20 product. _One product_. I can't say that bodes well for the future of d20 at White Wolf


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## Alzrius (Mar 2, 2007)

This is the first I've heard of "Monte Cook's World of Darkness." At first I just assumed it was some sort of prolonged typo.   

That said, beyond message board speculation, the only official announcement I can find about it is here, and though I wish it did, it doesn't in any way indicate that it'll be d20.

Having said that, I've never much cared for World of Darkness at all, but this will be worth at least an interested glance (I'd probably buy it in an instant if it does turn out to be d20).


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## senodam (Mar 2, 2007)

Monte At Home said:
			
		

> Really?




Would this be a good time for us to ask that you spill the beans on the project?

Pretty please?


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## Psion (Mar 2, 2007)

jdrakeh said:
			
		

> That said, if this isn't the case, it also means that White Wolf has announced only _one_ future d20 product. _One product_. I can't say that bodes well for the future of d20 at White Wolf




Well, I don't know if anything new is coming up for WoW RPG (but they did just have 2 releases), but if so, it's sad for roleplaying all around at White Wolf, since their best selling RPG at the WoW online store is d20, as is the third best selling.


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## jdrakeh (Mar 2, 2007)

Psion said:
			
		

> Well, I don't know if anything new is coming up for WoW RPG (but they did just have 2 releases), but if so, it's sad for roleplaying all around at White Wolf, since their best selling RPG at the WoW online store is d20, as is the third best selling.




Well, not releasing new material isn't the same as halting all sales of existing material (for all I know, they have warehouses d20 System stuff to move). That said, the only d20 product that is currently listed under future releases for SS&S is _The Tome of Artifacts_.

[Edit: As for the WoW online store stats, keep in mind that this is _one store_ (thus the rankings don't mean much). I always cite the G&GR rankings, as they represent a sampling of _many_ retailers, thus, they tend to more accurately reflect market realities (they aren't 100% accurate, but they're still better than single store surveys).]


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## Orcus (Mar 2, 2007)

Everyone, I really appreciate the outpouring of support. I'll admit, things were looking bleak. But, perhaps as a result of this thread, a few new developments have arisen. I dont yet know what will happen. But know this: if there is a feasible way for Bill and I to do Necro in a way consistent with our vision, we will. That is a promise.



> You can't keep a good Necromancer down for long.




That, friend, is the truth! 

I cant tell you how much Bill and I appreciate everyone's kind words. Hopefully there will be some really good news in the not-so distant future.

Clark


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## Michael Silverbane (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm glad that things are (possibly) looking up for you and look forward to seeing more excellent products from Necromancer Games for a long time to come.

Later
silver


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## froggie (Mar 2, 2007)

*a note on Kenzer*

If not for David Kenzer, Mark and Steve, we would never have even continued to publish short (e.g. not huge) books. David and I made a committment a couple years ago (really for the good of the hobby) that we would do this as long as we didn't lose any money. The K&Co guys have done a spectacular job of keeping to this. Lots of folks would never have seen a book in print if not for them. 

The sales failed to meet (ours and their) expectations, but when I called David a year or so ago, he and I decided to keep making books, since we were (basically) breaking even, and we felt that the world needed more adventures. We also agreed that quality was important (note we still have the best covers and maps in d20), and decided not to drop that aspect of our products to make more money.

Both companies really expected better sales, but, in the final analysis, that was not meant to be. We also decided to keep putting out books, becuase it was the right thing to do. I would imagine after our next 8 books, we'll revisit this. 

Thanks guys (K&Co).


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Mar 2, 2007)

*Orcus Über Alles!*



			
				Orcus said:
			
		

> Everyone, I really appreciate the outpouring of support.



You guys deserve it ... _Crucible of Freya_ is still my favorite 3E module.






*NecroCore 4Life!*​


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 2, 2007)

Thayan,

4life? No Forever and into Undeath!   

Necromancer fiend all the time. 

And yeah Clark is my own personal Orcus.


----------



## The Thayan Menace (Mar 2, 2007)

*True Dat!*



			
				Nightfall said:
			
		

> No Forever and into Undeath!







*Word ....*


​


----------



## Ghendar (Mar 2, 2007)

I'm coming late to this party but I would be very sad to see Necromancer go the way of the Dodo. Of the myriad 3rd party publishers, Necro is one of my favorites.


----------



## JoeGKushner (Mar 2, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *agrees with Zug*
> 
> Btw Mark I don't blame you (or Kenzer Company either for that matter) so much as I blame White Wolf for being stupid. Honestly, WW had/has a gold mine with Necromancer Games but they have flittered it away by saying "Oh lookie! We are soo cool! We must keep our coolness by being so darn gothy and edgy!"




Don't drink the kool aid Nightfall.

Remember, they didn't sell through either boxed set despite low print runs. That's hardly a gold mine.

Quality does not equal success.


----------



## Mark Plemmons (Mar 2, 2007)

froggie said:
			
		

> If not for David Kenzer, Mark and Steve, we would never have even continued to publish short (e.g. not huge) books. David and I made a committment a couple years ago (really for the good of the hobby) that we would do this as long as we didn't lose any money. The K&Co guys have done a spectacular job of keeping to this. Lots of folks would never have seen a book in print if not for them.
> 
> The sales failed to meet (ours and their) expectations, but when I called David a year or so ago, he and I decided to keep making books, since we were (basically) breaking even, and we felt that the world needed more adventures. We also agreed that quality was important (note we still have the best covers and maps in d20), and decided not to drop that aspect of our products to make more money.
> 
> ...




Hey, thanks for that, Bill.   

You and Clark have done a great job in tough times!  Keep it up!


----------



## froggie (Mar 2, 2007)

*Box sets*

Joe, actually, we did sell all the RARE box sets!


----------



## JoeGKushner (Mar 2, 2007)

froggie said:
			
		

> Joe, actually, we did sell all the RARE box sets!




Thumbs up then!

Glad to see the successful gauging of the market pay off.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 2, 2007)

Yep they sold out and I blame my mom for sending back my hard copy/box set of RARE.  

But she had a point when I used funds that weren't mine to begin with...


----------



## Treebore (Mar 2, 2007)

Like I said, if:






 Everyone, I really appreciate the outpouring of support. I'll admit, things were looking bleak. But, perhaps as a result of this thread, a few new developments have arisen. I dont yet know what will happen. But know this: if there is a feasible way for Bill and I to do Necro in a way consistent with our vision, we will. That is a promise.


Quote:
You can't keep a good Necromancer down for long.  



That, friend, is the truth! 

I cant tell you how much Bill and I appreciate everyone's kind words. Hopefully there will be some really good news in the not-so distant future.

Clark


is because of my big mouth, then I am happy.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 2, 2007)

Clark,

So...can I get another copy of RARE perhaps?


----------



## Treebore (Mar 2, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Clark,
> 
> So...can I get another copy of RARE perhaps?




I doubt it. Bill didn't take any home from GenCon. I've heard mention as little as two weeks ago there were some available on Amazon.


----------



## Treebore (Mar 2, 2007)

Maybe. Doesn't say out of stock, but that ships in 6 to 8 weeks is... worrisome.


Rappan Athuk


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## Keith Robinson (Mar 2, 2007)

Just wanted to wish Clark, Bill and all at Necromancer Games good luck with keeping their heads above the rising tide.

Several of their products sit proudly on my gaming shelf, including all the Tome of Horrors (I printed out their Tome of Horrors Revised on quality paper, including the cover on card, then got it bound at Staples  ) and Rappan Athuk Reloaded, amongst others.  Like others here, there have been a few produvcts I have been putting off purchasing, which I will in all likelihood now buy.

It's indicative of the d20 market in general at the moment, which is unlikely to change, unfortunately.  And while I know there are plenty of d20 haters out there, I'm actually finding the present state of the market quite saddening as I am a fan.

Good luck!


----------



## Treebore (Mar 2, 2007)

Hey Keith (Red Moon Games), post 139 is very encouraging about the future of NEcro.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Mar 2, 2007)

I've got 3 new RA Reloadeds (though the shrink-wrap is taken off). Maybe I would be willing to part with one....


----------



## Keith Robinson (Mar 2, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> Hey Keith (Red Moon Games), post 139 is very encouraging about the future of NEcro.




I assume you mean post 93, as in your ammended title - and, yes, that is encouraging news.  I really hope that something positive does come out of all this and that Necromancer Games will be around for a long time to come.  I'm still going to pick up some more of their products - to show a little support and all that.


----------



## Treebore (Mar 2, 2007)

Sorry, guess my dyslexia struck. Post 129.


----------



## Erik Mona (Mar 2, 2007)

Mystaros said:
			
		

> #1: Wizards of the Coast: 58.37%
> #2: White Wolf: 12.79%
> #3: Palladium Books: 3.92%
> #4: Goodman Games: 2.96%
> ...




Ahem.

--Erik Mona
Publisher
Paizo Publishing, LLC


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## Treebore (Mar 3, 2007)

Erik Mona said:
			
		

> Ahem.
> 
> --Erik Mona
> Publisher
> Paizo Publishing, LLC





I'm figuring you guys are 30 to 40% of WOTC's sales strength. Your about 60% with me.  

Heck, it may be more like 70 or 80%. Your Dungeon Mastery line has been eating up a lot of my money. Plus the magazines.


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## Banshee16 (Mar 3, 2007)

Is that City of Brass boxed set something they'd already released?  Is it a campaign setting, regional sourcebook, or adventure?

I don't believe I've purchased a Necromancer Games product yet....probably one of the only companies I haven't tried, yet.

Banshee


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## cnath.rm (Mar 3, 2007)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> Is that City of Brass boxed set something they'd already released?  Is it a campaign setting, regional sourcebook, or adventure?
> 
> I don't believe I've purchased a Necromancer Games product yet....probably one of the only companies I haven't tried, yet.
> 
> Banshee



Pretty much all of the above according to the info here  
http://necromancergames.com/upcoming.html#cob

To get a taste of the Necromancer goodness, check out The Wizard's Amulet towards the bottom of the Free Stuff page,
http://necromancergames.com/freestuff.html
 made for a beginning DM to read and have a game up and running in 15 min or so.


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 3, 2007)

Banshee,

The box set should rock since it's basically three products in one. Or was it two? I forget...

Cats,

What can I offer you for that? Dungeonscape?  

Tree,

yeah that wait WOULD worry me as well. Plus I think Bill said something about Amazon being silly about getting copies ie they weren't.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Mar 3, 2007)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Cats,
> 
> What can I offer you for that? Dungeonscape?



I've got dungeonscape, and even then, it's not really a fair trade. 

Have they really all sold out?  I wonder how many are "in the wild"?


----------



## froggie (Mar 3, 2007)

*RARE Sold Out*

Yes, they are really sold out, we were only able to fulfill about 70% of the orders, and Treebore is correct, I took none home from Gencon--in fact, I gave Dave Kenzer the demo copy, because I had no other copies to give him. There "might" be some on Ebay, and perhaps Amazon has some (they say they do, and they bought them from Alliance, not us), but I doubt its real. We actually only had them in the warehouse for about a week...I pulled 100 from the distributors orders to take to the Con, and thats it.

yup, found one on ebay for $98...
http://cgi.ebay.com/Rappan-Athuk-Re...ryZ44112QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 3, 2007)

That's great Bill.  

I imagine it was a better experience than the Wilderlands Boxed Set, which, from what I have read, may have had a slight print overrun.  I wonder how many of those are still out there?


----------



## Philotomy Jurament (Mar 3, 2007)

catsclaw227 said:
			
		

> I imagine it was a better experience than the Wilderlands Boxed Set, which, from what I have read, may have had a slight print overrun.  I wonder how many of those are still out there?



Amazon said they had one in stock, which I just ordered.  We'll see.


----------



## Treebore (Mar 3, 2007)

catsclaw227 said:
			
		

> That's great Bill.
> 
> I imagine it was a better experience than the Wilderlands Boxed Set, which, from what I have read, may have had a slight print overrun.  I wonder how many of those are still out there?




I know at last GenCon there was a dealer that sold 14 boxes of WL at $25.00 a pop. Grodog had me get him a copy.


----------



## megamania (Mar 3, 2007)

Well that sucks!


I have better hurry and pick up stuff I don't have before they can no longer be picked up.


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## froggie (Mar 3, 2007)

*Wilderlands*

The main problem w/ WL was threefold
1) production costs were too high for the price-point (those bloody maps!)
2) we had to pay extra royalties (to Bob) beyond usual
3) we should have printed 1500, not 2500

These factors combined to create a nasty loss for us (well, in total, a basic breakeven on 2 years of work, though Bob did pretty well). That being said, I have never been prouder of a product we made, and its still the best campaign setting in history. Would I do it again? You bet, except I would have printed 1000, sent it out at $100, and made either full color or parchment maps.


----------



## Treebore (Mar 3, 2007)

Oooohh! Parchment! How about just a collectors set of WL parchment maps?  I'll buy several. At least 3. Maybe as many as 5. What would the price point be on something like that?

If you guys aren't doing the vinyl Tegal Maps (  ) how would parchment work for that product?


----------



## Treebore (Mar 3, 2007)

Man! Parchment would be perfect "flavor" for City of Brass too. Kind of drooling just thinking about that!


----------



## Nightfall (Mar 5, 2007)

Cats,

I'll offer you my soul for it. Of course I have it on loan for several other beings...but hey! I REALLY want RARE. Like serious jonesing for it. (I got the PDF but the HC would be SOO much more fun/better.)


----------



## catsclaw227 (Mar 5, 2007)

froggie said:
			
		

> The main problem w/ WL was threefold
> 1) production costs were too high for the price-point (those bloody maps!)
> 2) we had to pay extra royalties (to Bob) beyond usual
> 3) we should have printed 1500, not 2500
> ...



It is one of my all time-favorite rpg products, any edition, period.

I would like to see the maps in a limited edition color version. that would rock.


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## Philotomy Jurament (Mar 11, 2007)

Philotomy Jurament said:
			
		

> Amazon said they had one in stock, which I just ordered.  We'll see.




Got my Wilderlands of High Fantasy boxed set.  It rocks.  I posted in more detail about it here.


----------



## Mystaros (Mar 11, 2007)

RE: Lack of Paizo listing on #s above...



			
				Erik Mona said:
			
		

> Ahem.
> 
> --Erik Mona
> Publisher
> Paizo Publishing, LLC



Erik,

Those numbers do not include magazines, art books, miniatures products, or card products, just game books and book-based boxed sets (i.e., like Wilderlands and Known Realms). The numbers *only* include sales through brick and mortar hobby retail stores; they do not include sales through mass market stores like Barnes & Noble or Borders, nor Amazon or other online sales, nor convention sales, nor most especially direct sales from the publisher to consumers. In other words, only *Shackled City* and the *Dragon Compendium* are counted in Paizo's RPG figures, and only those that sold through a brick and mortar hobby retailer (products sold to consumers, not from publisher to distributor nor distributor to retailer; it does not count product still sitting on retailer's shelves). Both of Paizo's products that count toward these figures were released in 2005 (July and October, respectively). So only the "long tail" sales of these products would have counted in 2006.


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## Orcus (Mar 12, 2007)

By the way, Necro is working on something really big.

Reports of our death were greatly exaggerated. 

Keep your shirts on. I think we just have something real BIG to report pretty soon. Fingers crossed. Don't jinx it. 

But I am talking big splash.

If this comes through, you guys are going to freak...

Clark


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 12, 2007)

Orcus said:
			
		

> By the way, Necro is working on something really big.
> 
> Reports of our death were greatly exaggerated.
> 
> ...



...And the speculation roller coaster begins climbing the first hill.


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## Twowolves (Mar 12, 2007)

Orcus said:
			
		

> By the way, Necro is working on something really big.
> 
> Reports of our death were greatly exaggerated.
> 
> ...




I, for one, am ready and willing to freak on demand!

Good luck with whatever it is!


----------



## DaveMage (Mar 12, 2007)

I love it when Clark goes into a "kid-in-a-candy-store" mode.


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## Belen (Mar 12, 2007)

Wold it not be cool if WOTC distributed the  NG adventures?  Suddenly, Wizards would be publishing the best adventures in the industry.

That would rock.


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## Nightfall (Mar 12, 2007)

God I hope so. That would mean FINALLY I buy WotC adventures.


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## MonsterMash (Mar 12, 2007)

Glad to hear that Necro's death has been exaggerated and thanks to Bill, Clark and all the others for all the good stuff to date.


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## greywulf (Mar 12, 2007)

"Necromancer is not dead". 

This has to be the BEST news the RPG industry has had since....uh..... oh, I dunno. Since then. At least.

Way to go, Bill, Clark & Co! 

We'll support you, whatever. You know that, dontchya?


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## Eridanis (Mar 12, 2007)

Belen said:
			
		

> Wold it not be cool if WOTC distributed the  NG adventures?  Suddenly, Wizards would be publishing the best adventures in the industry.
> 
> That would rock.



If I were to speculate wildly, I'd say it might be Paizo that picks up the distro baton for Necro. Just a feeling...


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## Alaric_Prympax (Mar 12, 2007)

Twowolves said:
			
		

> I, for one, am ready and willing to freak on demand!




That makes two of us.

Long Live Necro!!!!

Maybe I should change me sig. Hmm...


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## sakkara (Mar 13, 2007)

I am glad to hear that their death has been exaggerated too.

Necro is one of my favorite publishers, and I look forward to seeing more products from them.

-Sakkara


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## catsclaw227 (Mar 13, 2007)

Eridanis said:
			
		

> If I were to speculate wildly, I'd say it might be Paizo that picks up the distro baton for Necro. Just a feeling...



Wow.... that would be a coup for both NecroG and Paizo, but Paizo is already entering the adventure market and an arrangement like this might cannabalize their own sales.


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## Angel Tarragon (Mar 13, 2007)

Haven't been on EnWorld for a 2-3 days and am just now noticing this. I am curious to know if the City of Brass project is syill coming out.


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## Mouseferatu (Mar 13, 2007)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Haven't been on EnWorld for a 2-3 days and am just now noticing this. I am curious to know if the City of Brass project is syill coming out.




Yep. Everything that's already had a release date announced--_City of Brass_, _Tome of Artifacts_, and quite a few others--are still coming out through WW and/or Kenzer.


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## Angel Tarragon (Mar 13, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Yep. Everything that's already had a release date announced--_City of Brass_, _Tome of Artifacts_, and quite a few others--are still coming out through WW and/or Kenzer.



Glad to hear it. Thanks for the FYI mouse!


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## JoeGKushner (Mar 13, 2007)

Eridanis said:
			
		

> If I were to speculate wildly, I'd say it might be Paizo that picks up the distro baton for Necro. Just a feeling...




At Borders, I don't see Shackled City or Dragon Compendium I. Maybe that's just the borders around me though. Anyone see 'em in Barnes & Nobels? The days of getting most of your sales through the FLSG seem well over no?


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## ShinHakkaider (Mar 13, 2007)

JoeGKushner said:
			
		

> At Borders, I don't see Shackled City or Dragon Compendium I. Maybe that's just the borders around me though. Anyone see 'em in Barnes & Nobels? The days of getting most of your sales through the FLSG seem well over no?




There are two Borders within walking distance of my office and neither of them have ever carried any of the Paizo books. I have seen Paizo books in Barnes and Nobles tho'. 

The only things that I buy from my gaming store now are stuff like Paizo's Item cards and and WOTC's Dungeon Tiles. And that's because that stuff is so cheap it doesnt matter. If I decide to buy a display box of item cards then i'll do it online but as long as it's pack by pac k I'll pick them up from the store.


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## cnath.rm (Mar 16, 2007)

Limited Funds, looking at picking up either Shades of Gray or Coils of Set.  Not finding any reviews of either, can anyone point me to some or give me some advice on the two?


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## Treebore (Mar 16, 2007)

cnath.rm said:
			
		

> Limited Funds, looking at picking up either Shades of Gray or Coils of Set.  Not finding any reviews of either, can anyone point me to some or give me some advice on the two?





Go to the Necromancer messageboards. The modules each have their own forum and the authors have answered enough questions about the mods I am sure it will help you decide.

The message boards are linked off of their main website, and I think you can read the messageboards without having to sign up for membership. Membership is free, though, unless you choose to pay. The ads aren't that bad as long as your better than dial up.


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## cnath.rm (Mar 16, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> Go to the Necromancer messageboards. The modules each have their own forum and the authors have answered enough questions about the mods I am sure it will help you decide.
> 
> The message boards are linked off of their main website, and I think you can read the messageboards without having to sign up for membership. Membership is free, though, unless you choose to pay. The ads aren't that bad as long as your better than dial up.



 Oh I've already done that, didn't see too much as far as reviews went and figured I'd ask here for general thoughts.  I wouldn't want to post a "why is your adventure better then theirs" message to either adventures forum, and wasn't sure which other one to use to post a "I can only afford one this month, help me pick" message.


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## dragonlordofpoondari (Mar 16, 2007)

cnath.rm said:
			
		

> Limited Funds, looking at picking up either Shades of Gray or Coils of Set.  Not finding any reviews of either, can anyone point me to some or give me some advice on the two?




I was excited to get the Shades of Gray into my hot little hands until I found out that the entire thing is organized around a dingus hunt motif. That trope is a little stale, IMHO. As such, Coils of Set is higher on my to-buy list. I haven't read or purchased either, though. I assume you already have Necro's greatest hits in your possession?


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## cnath.rm (Mar 16, 2007)

dragonlordofpoondari said:
			
		

> I was excited to get the Shades of Gray into my hot little hands until I found out that the entire thing is organized around a dingus hunt motif. That trope is a little stale, IMHO. As such, Coils of Set is higher on my to-buy list. I haven't read or purchased either, though. I assume you already have Necro's greatest hits in your possession?



If by greatest hits you mean Crucible of Freya, Tomb of Abysthor, Rappan Athuk (not Reloaded  was too late), Demons & Devils, Grey Citidel (one of the best ever!!), etc then pretty much yeah.   Not so many of the more recent TLG ones (Vampires and Liches rocks!) and none of the Kenzer books so far.  Ideas and recommendations would be very welcome indeed.


----------



## Voadam (Mar 16, 2007)

cnath.rm said:
			
		

> Limited Funds, looking at picking up either Shades of Gray or Coils of Set.  Not finding any reviews of either, can anyone point me to some or give me some advice on the two?





I bought both with the recent bundle sale but have not read through them yet. Shades of Gray is broken down into several chapters for various levels.

Based on product blurb themes Gray deals with plague stuff while Coils of Set is Set machinations, ending in time travel. I love Set but not time travel and I'm not really in the mood for disease stuff right now so the beginning of Coils of Set holds more interest for me. Both are intended to go from levels 1-13 or so.


----------



## cnath.rm (Mar 16, 2007)

Voadam said:
			
		

> I bought both with the recent bundle sale but have not read through them yet. Shades of Gray is broken down into several chapters for various levels.



Bundle sales? The ones from TLG or where?


----------



## Treebore (Mar 16, 2007)

PDF bundles on Drivethru.


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## cnath.rm (Mar 16, 2007)

Treebore said:
			
		

> PDF bundles on Drivethru.



Cool, just checked them out. I'm seeing Elemental Moon on the list, but nothing as to what levels it covers, I found the info in the forums (9-10) but before that I had checked the main NG site without finding it and found nothing on Kenzer's site either.(I'm guessing as it isn't out in print) Wanted to pass the info on in the hopes of getting the level info added to the DTRPG writeup.  Lance Hawvermale can write up a storm so I'm going to have to think about that one as well.


----------



## Treebore (Mar 16, 2007)

Yes, Elemental Moon is only available as pdf for a couple of more weeks. I don't remember the levels either. I just know I like Lance's other modules, so I am confident of getting this one. Plus it has some art done by my daughter in it.


----------



## DM_Jeff (Mar 16, 2007)

Finally had to chime in here, after following this thread for the past week. 

Necromancer Games started my 3e Collection, and while a large majority of my stuff for 3.0 has gone to Ebay, I have never even once considered selling a Necro product, 3.0, or 3.5. I have not used all of their products (but I do own about 90%) but the ones I have have ALWAYS been great to the table.

Three Cheers for sticking it out guys!!

-DM Jeff


----------



## Orcus (Mar 17, 2007)

And I think we are going to have a really big, really cool announcement soon. So stay tuned.

Clark


----------



## Sir Elton (Mar 17, 2007)

I knew you could figure something out, Clark.

Elton.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Mar 17, 2007)

Orcus said:
			
		

> And I think we are going to have a really big, really cool announcement soon. So stay tuned.
> 
> Clark



Awesome news.  I can't wait to hear about it.


----------



## Twowolves (Mar 17, 2007)

Orcus said:
			
		

> And I think we are going to have a really big, really cool announcement soon. So stay tuned.
> 
> Clark




Ahem...







_"Get ON with it!!"_


----------



## sakkara (Mar 17, 2007)

Looking forward to hearing Clark's good news.

I'll chime in with a "me too" hoping the announcement is some kind of Paizo-Necromancer partnership -- that woiuld be incredible!

At the very least, I am excited to hear Clark's news -- Necromancer Games is my favorite d20 company.

Sakkara


----------



## Orcus (Mar 20, 2007)

New deal done. Just working on the announcement. Get ready... Should be real real soon. And I just cant tell you how absolutely geeked I am to be partnering up with these great people. I absolutely admire and respect all of them, the whole crew. From the business side to the creative side. They totally "get" D&D and what it is about and everything Necro stands for and how we fit into the "industry." And what kind of products are good products. I am like a little kid right now I am so excited. I think you guys will like the news. I hope you do. I sure do. 

(and Tegel Manor might just - perhaps - be the first product of this evil union, and I mean a totally pimped out full color version of Tegel Manor; but I dont want to say too much  Oops, I already did)

Clark


----------



## Xyanthon (Mar 20, 2007)

Ah sweet!  I hope it is a partnering with Paizo.  That would really rock.  I have been very impressed with bith Necro and Paizo and I think they would make a fantastic team!


----------



## dragonlordofpoondari (Mar 20, 2007)

Orcus said:
			
		

> New deal done. Just working on the announcement. Get ready... Should be real real soon. And I just cant tell you how absolutely geeked I am to be partnering up with these great people. I absolutely admire and respect all of them, the whole crew. From the business side to the creative side. They totally "get" D&D and what it is about and everything Necro stands for and how we fit into the "industry." And what kind of products are good products. I am like a little kid right now I am so excited. I think you guys will like the news. I hope you do. I sure do.
> 
> (and Tegel Manor might just - perhaps - be the first product of this evil union, and I mean a totally pimped out full color version of Tegel Manor; but I dont want to say too much  Oops, I already did)
> 
> Clark




PRAISE ORCUS! And congratulations! I am thrilled that there is a future for Necromancer! This is a happy day for gamers and publishers alike!


----------



## catsclaw227 (Mar 21, 2007)

Well, Clark????

Any more teasing to be done today?


----------



## dmchucky (Mar 21, 2007)

Eridanis said:
			
		

> If I were to speculate wildly, I'd say it might be Paizo that picks up the distro baton for Necro. Just a feeling...




I hope that you are right old buddy. You know I love Necromancer stuff and I love Paizo stuff. It would kind of be like the old Reeses peanut butter/chocolate commercials! Maybe we could find out it was Orcus really pulling all the strings at the end of the Age of Worms.

If it does turn out that Paizo takes over; you may finally find that spellbook in the Mines of Bloodstone!

Chuck


----------

