# Special Conversion Thread: Finishing off the fey



## Shade (Apr 6, 2009)

This special conversion thread will attempt to finish off the remaining fey creatures.

Here are the unconverted creatures that Echohawk has suggested as fey:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-monster-talk/246414-unconverted-fey.html


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## Shade (Apr 6, 2009)

Here is the final jogah:

*Gan-da-yah*
FREQUENCY: Rare
NO. APPEARING: 1-10
ARMOR CLASS: 7
MOVE: 12”
HIT DICE: 1+1
% IN LAIR: 5%
TREASURE TYPE: R
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: By weapon
SPECIAL ATTACKS: +2 with bow
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE; 50%
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional
ALIGNMENT: Neutral good
SIZE: S (3’ tall)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil

The Gan-da-yah are the most beloved by the Iroquois of all the little people. Their task is to guard and advise the fruits and grains.. They are the “elves of sunshine.” During spring the Gan-da-yah live in dark, sheltered places and talk to the ground so they may hear the complaints of the growing seeds. When summer comes, they roam across the fields, ripening the fruits and tinting the grains, and telling all growing things to seek the sun. Their work begins with the strawberry plant, which is a special gift to men. After the frost has left the ground, the Gan-da-yah loosen the ground around each strawberry root so that the shoots can easily push to the surface. They shape its leaves to the sun, turn the blossoms upward, and lead runners to new growing areas.

An old tale tells of when the fruits were first brought to the earth. An evil spirit captured the strawberry plant and hid it beneath the earth for centuries. It was finally freed by a spy sunbeam who brought it back to the sunny lands where it has thrived ever since. Fearing another assault, the Gan-da-yah continue a special guard over their favorite fruit.  When the first fruit comes out on the vine, the Gan-da-yah guard it from the attacks of evil insects and mildew. They always keep watch over the fields while they ripen, and are constantly at war with the blights and diseases that attempt to infest and kill corn and beans.

The Gan-da-yah can take on various forms for safety and guidance, often visiting the longhouses of the Indians in the shape of birds. If a Gan-da-yah appears as a bat, a symbol of the union of light and darkness, it indicates some life-and-death battle close at hand; if one appears as an owl, watchful and wise, the mission is one of warning; if one appears as a robin, it carries good tidings. The most harmless insect or worm may be carrying an important message from the Ganda-yah, for “the trail is broad enough for all.” With the coming of fall and winter, the Gan-da-yah are safe, hiding in the earth until the following spring.

The Gan-da-yah can use any druid spell from the first four levels, and the magic-user spell Polymorph Self, at will, acting in all cases as an 8th-level spellcaster. All Gan-da-yah encountered will carry a dagger, and 60% of all individuals will have either a short bow or a spear as well (50% chance for each). They wear either padded or leather armor. If encountered in a lair, females and young are equal to 100% and 40% of the male population respectively; otherwise, females comprise 20% of a group.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #61 (1982).


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## freyar (Apr 6, 2009)

I'd suggest we go with alternate form/change shape vs polymorph.  I'm fond of the idea of making them 8th level druidic innate spellcasters, though I suppose I could be persuaded to support a super SLA list.


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 6, 2009)

Let's go for innate casters--but we should give them more than 1 HD, in that case. Seems a bit of a gap.


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## Shade (Apr 7, 2009)

Agreed.  Maybe in the 4-6 HD range?


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## freyar (Apr 7, 2009)

Sounds fair.  Picking arbitarily, how about 5HD?


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## Shade (Apr 9, 2009)

That works.  Int is Exceptional (15-16).  Wis should be at least that good, if not a bit higher.  Cha is probably comparable.  

Maybe Str 10, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 16?


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## freyar (Apr 9, 2009)

Looks fine to me.


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 9, 2009)

They're Small, so let's drop Str to 8. Other than that, looks good to me.


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## Shade (Apr 10, 2009)

> SPECIAL ATTACKS: +2 with bow




Enhance arrow and sylvan archer like the oh-do-was?


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 10, 2009)

Yeah, let's do that.


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## Shade (Apr 10, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

Spells: A gan-da-yah can cast spells as an 8th-level druid. 

Typical Druid Spells Prepared (6/5/4/4/2; save DC 13 + spell level): 
0—x; 
1st—x; 
2nd—x; 
3rd—x; 
4th—x.


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## freyar (Apr 11, 2009)

0 - create water x2, cure minor wounds, know direction, purify food and drink, resistance
1 - calm animals, entangle, goodberry, pass without trace, speak with animals
2 - animal messenger, delay poison, soften earth and stone, tree shape
3 - daylight, plant growth, quench, speak with plants
4 - control water, freedom of movement

Suggestions?


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 11, 2009)

Those spells are all quite thematic... but all utility/defensive. Should spirits of spring have any sort of offensive punch?


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## freyar (Apr 12, 2009)

I thought about that.  Maybe not too directly offensive.  How about things like warp wood and spike growth?  You know, indirect attacks, like entangle.  I could also see one or maybe two direct offensive spells like flame blade.  What do you think?


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 13, 2009)

Warp wood, spike growth, entangle... all appeal. Perhaps we mention that it does switch out to summon nature's ally in their tactics?


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## Shade (Apr 13, 2009)

Sounds good.

Updated.

Shall we work on alternate form/change shape?



> The Gan-da-yah can take on various forms for safety and guidance, often visiting the longhouses of the Indians in the shape of birds. If a Gan-da-yah appears as a bat, a symbol of the union of light and darkness, it indicates some life-and-death battle close at hand; if one appears as an owl, watchful and wise, the mission is one of warning; if one appears as a robin, it carries good tidings. The most harmless insect or worm may be carrying an important message from the Ganda-yah, for “the trail is broad enough for all.”




Any animal of up to Tiny size?


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 13, 2009)

Sounds reasonable.


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## freyar (Apr 13, 2009)

Agreed.


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## Shade (Apr 13, 2009)

So...

Change Shape (Su): A gan-da-yah can assume the form of any Tiny or smaller animal.

Skills: 72

Feats: 2


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## freyar (Apr 14, 2009)

At will?

Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spot, Survival, Tumble?

Natural Spell would be nice, but they don't technically qualify.  Augment Summoning?  Extend Spell or something?


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 14, 2009)

How about Natural Spell as a bonus feat, with the explanation that they can use it to cast while in animal form, Extend Spell and Weapon Finesse?


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## Shade (Apr 14, 2009)

Updated.



> They wear either padded or leather armor.




Armor preference for stat block?

Environment: Temperate hills and plains?

Organization: Solitary, pair, or tribe (3-10)?

Alignment: Always neutral good?

Advancement: By character class (favored class: druid)?


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## freyar (Apr 14, 2009)

I kind of like leather.  The rest seems good to me.  Any idea how to CR these?  They're basically 8th level druids minus the animal companion and a lot of hp.


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 14, 2009)

Let's go leather armor. And CR...6? They have great spellcasting, but poor hp and their wild shape isn't very helpful for combat.


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## freyar (Apr 15, 2009)

Sounds fair.


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## Shade (Apr 15, 2009)

Updated.

Treasure type R is:
2-8 1,000s of gold pieces: 40%
10-60 100s of platinum pieces: 50%
4-32 gems: 55%
1-12 jewelry: 45%

So double coins, double goods, standard items?

LA +8?


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## freyar (Apr 15, 2009)

That all sounds fine.

For tactics: Gan-da-yah prefer to avoid combat, seeking a peaceful life among their favored plants and animals.  However, when pressed, they will use their spells to summon animals to fight for them and to escape to a safe distance.  Then they pepper their enemies with magic arrows and annoying spells.


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## Shade (Apr 15, 2009)

Great!   Updated.   Anything left?


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## freyar (Apr 15, 2009)

They look good!


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## Shade (May 1, 2009)

*Faerie Phiz*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Sylvan settings
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Very to godlike (11-21+)
TREASURE: Q,T
ALIGNMENT: Any
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVEMENT: Nil
HIT DICE: 10-12
THAC0: Variable (as wizard)
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 2-24 (bite)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spell use
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Camouflage, spit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 5% per hit dice
SIZE: S to L
MORALE: Fearless (19-20)
XP VALUE:
Leafling: 7,000
Woodmaster: 8,000
Treelord: 9,000

The faerie phiz is a mystical entity similar in nature to a treant or galeb duhr. The faerie phiz is a magical being found exclusively in sylvan woods and faerie settings, or in the kingdoms of elves. The fay phiz, as it is sometimes called, is simply a face (the old elven word for “face” being “phiz”) found on magically enchanted wooden surfaces.

The faerie phiz appears for the most part on trees of the woodland, although it has been seen on old, large wooden doors, enchanted houses, bridges, drawbridges, and other old, large, wooden structures. The phiz is detectable only 25% of the time (50% for druids and elves) when its eyes and mouth are closed; thus, it is effectively camouflaged.  The phiz may appear on any sort of wood, although oak is most common.

The visage of the faerie phiz and its features range anywhere in size from that of the smallest pixie to the visage of hill giant size. The phiz is usually quite striking, and no two are alike in personality or looks, although it is said that once in a thousand years twins may occur. Sages who study the lost and rare philosophy of phizonomie (the arcane study of judging character from facial features and sometimes the art of divination based on such) agree that the phiz are created through the vicissitude of great and potent overflows of faerie magic. Sages also believe that the destruction of a powerful wizard may cause the transference of his power to the area at the moment of his death, resulting in the magical growth of the fay phiz later.

The phiz may be dour and ugly or simply bear a visage similar to that of a treant. It may also bear the characteristics of elven faces or other faerie creatures, but these sort are not as common, although these are the most advertised sort in city taverns and gossip haunts.

Combat: The phiz, like the treant, abhors fire, but it does not fear it as most treants do. The phiz spits on any fire within range and often on anyone bearing a torch or lighting a campfire. The spit, a magical acidic resin secreted by the faerie phiz, causes all fires smaller than 2½ in diameter to be completely extinguished. The saliva of the phiz also affects any live target as if an irritation spell had been cast on it, with the effects of both itching and rash occurring.  The phiz may spit at any point within a distance of up to 100 yards within a clear line of sight.

The faerie phiz's attack form is spell use. The phiz is capable of casting spells as a wizard and druid at a level equal to its hit dice. The phiz gains spells by merely observing someone cast them, then remembering them. Any spells appropriate to its type so witnessed are transferred to its memory, which serves as a spell book. The Phiz must still take time to study the spells in its mind, attempting to recall them from its extensive memory. The lowest hit-die phiz will have spells available as a 10th- level wizard or druid; for every additional hit die, it gains one level of spell-casting ability to a maximum of 12th level. The spells are converted to verbal components, and no memorized spells are ever fire-based. The phiz may not specialize in specific schools of magic as a character would.

Habitat/Society: The phiz has a very long life span. It may often live to be over 1,500 years old if left undisturbed. An individual phiz increases in hit dice every 100-500 years that it lives, increasing its magic resistance and spell-casting ability as well. The phiz grows in magical glades and in places where pixies, sprites, and other sorts of faeries frolic; it is on excellent terms with treants. The phiz always has an extensive knowledge of an area’s history and memories of anyone who has ever passed before its eyes. It is capable of remembering entire conversations that may have occurred throughout the span of its life. It is also prone to know volumes of lore and speak many languages that no human or elf can even hope to find nowadays, much less remember.

Ecology: The phiz is not disposed to give its sagelike knowledge to anyone because it does not wish to be haunted by every philosopher and sage in the realm. A phiz is rarely senile despite its great age, although to fool some seekers it pretends to be. The phiz is reclusive and often acts old and weary or irritated with the intrusion of its privacy. The phiz is not afraid of death (a few even welcome it) and cannot be tricked or forced to reveal knowledge and information by threats or coercion, It would rather die by the ax than give information to those arrogant enough to threaten it. The phiz is disinterested in wealth and often laughs at those foolish enough to promise gold and riches. The only way to receive any information from a faerie phiz, other than its possible willingness to divulge it anyhow, is to offer it powerful magical items or rich faerie food--a very dangerous proposition.  This faerie food may only be found through a few very dangerous methods. One such method is to seek out and join a faerie ring. A faerie ring is a circle of mushrooms where tiny faeries, such as atomies, grigs, brownies, pixies, and sprites commonly dance. The seeker has only to enter the circle, then dance or sing for a few minutes in hopes of being offered some food. The food appears to be bread, cheese, fowl, beef, or vegetable dishes of the normal kind, only made by faerie hands. It is harmless and very delicious. The dance seems to last for but a few moments, but thanks to the magic of the faerie ring has a 40% chance of taking seven years in human time. The seeker may also look for a faerie hill, entering only by the graceful invitation of its tiny inhabitants. Once inside, the seeker should be careful not to eat or drink any of the delicious food or wine of the faeries. The seeker is faced with inescapable imprisonment if he so much as tastes one morsel of the heavenly food. The taster is usually polymorphed into a faerie or serves as a slave to the more evil and vile faeries, such as the drow or the quickling. Dryads sometimes lure seekers with such foods, but the danger of capture still remains.

In any event, the phiz is only hungry once a human year. A year to a human is only a single day for the phiz, so it does not hunger often. The phiz is usually hungry during a season particularly pleasing to it such as spring, for those of good alignment, or winter, for those of evil alignment. The food is not actually eaten all at once but is stored (like a squirrel’s trove of nuts) inside the phiz in its extra-dimensional stomach. The phiz nibbles on this supply for an entire year. This and the fact that the correct food is hard to attain without dire consequences keeps most adventurers away from the phiz, much to its delight. The phiz is fed by sprites and other fay folk and as a result never goes hungry, despite the lack of seekers.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #191 (1993)


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## freyar (May 1, 2009)

These are kind of weird.  Somewhat like weirds, as a matter of fact.  Inherent sorcerer and druid spellcasting?  Or do you actually want to make it wizard and druid?


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## demiurge1138 (May 1, 2009)

I'm fine with inherent wizard. We can say something like it's considered to have Spell Mastery as a bonus feat for all of its spells. 

And I think it should be or, not and with the two types of spellcasting. It's somewhat unclear from the text.


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## freyar (May 1, 2009)

I do kind of like both at once, actually.  Makes them kind of uber-casters.   But I can let Shade decide.

Spell Mastery as wizards is a nice idea.


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## Shade (May 1, 2009)

I'm fine with both.  It makes 'em interesting.


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## Shade (May 5, 2009)

> SIZE: S to L






> The visage of the faerie phiz and its features range anywhere in size from that of the smallest pixie to the visage of hill giant size.




Start 'em at Small,and allow advancement to Large?


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## freyar (May 5, 2009)

Sounds good.  Is 10HD too many for the small ones?


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## demiurge1138 (May 5, 2009)

Well, this is the face of something only. The face of a Small creature's only Tiny or Diminuitive, right? Or are these faces oversized, regardless?


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## freyar (May 6, 2009)

I kind of thought that the face was more or less the creature.  So a Small phiz would pretty much just be a face, 2-3 feet across, maybe with a little depth to the wood.


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## demiurge1138 (May 6, 2009)

Well, it says that the face is the size of a pixie's face, so...


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## Shade (May 6, 2009)

Good point.  So Diminuitive to Small, then?

And I think 10 HD is still appropriate, despite the small size, considering its spellcasting potential.


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## freyar (May 6, 2009)

That sounds good to me, then.


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## demiurge1138 (May 6, 2009)

Agreed.


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## Shade (May 7, 2009)

Let's figure out ability scores.   We know its Int is "Very to godlike (11-21+)", and should probably have an equally high Wisdom.  Cha seems decent, too.

It has good AC, which could be attributed to Dex, to the wood of the trees it inhabits, or unearthly grace (or some combination of the 3).

Its bite deals alot of damage, so it might be partially attributed to a good Strength score.

Nothing seems to indicate anything special about Con.


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## demiurge1138 (May 7, 2009)

Considering that they're immobile faces, it'd be weird for their Dex to be high, I think.


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## freyar (May 7, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Considering that they're immobile faces, it'd be weird for their Dex to be high, I think.



I'll agree.  Let's give them good natural armor and unearthly grace.

If we want to emphasize their "woodiness," tree- and vine-like plants have decent Con, though fey don't typically.

Str 17, Dex 8, Con 11, Int 20, Wis 19, Cha 18?  Or thereabouts?


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## Shade (May 7, 2009)

Ahh...for some reason I though the face could travel to different wooden surfaces.   Re-reading it, I realize that's not the case.

Those scores look good, but I think Int and Wis should be equal, like the wizard and druidic casting.

So...

Str 17, Dex 8, Con 11, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 19?


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## demiurge1138 (May 8, 2009)

I'd be okay upping their Con to reflect woodiness. They're already immoble. They're in grave danger as it is.


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## Shade (May 8, 2009)

Con 21 like treant?


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## demiurge1138 (May 8, 2009)

Maybe Con 18.


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## Shade (May 8, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.



> The phiz is detectable only 25% of the time (50% for druids and elves) when its eyes and mouth are closed; thus, it is effectively camouflaged.  The phiz may appear on any sort of wood, although oak is most common.




Camouflage (like the assassin vine), and allow bonuses for druids and elves, similar to the bonus for stonecunning for subterranean assassin vines?



> The phiz, like the treant, abhors fire, but it does not fear it as most treants do. The phiz spits on any fire within range and often on anyone bearing a torch or lighting a campfire. The spit, a magical acidic resin secreted by the faerie phiz, causes all fires smaller than 2½ in diameter to be completely extinguished. The saliva of the phiz also affects any live target as if an irritation spell had been cast on it, with the effects of both itching and rash occurring.  The phiz may spit at any point within a distance of up to 100 yards within a clear line of sight.




I'm pretty sure we did a conversion that also used an irritation mechanic.  Will look...

The other part sounds like quench.


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## demiurge1138 (May 9, 2009)

Irritation was given to the nickel dragons.

I know this because I'm using one of them in my game next week. It's going to be sweet.


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## freyar (May 11, 2009)

This is looking pretty good.  

I'm agreeable to camouflage with the druid & elf bonus, as well as the quench and irritation spit.


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## Shade (May 12, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Irritation was given to the nickel dragons.
> 
> I know this because I'm using one of them in my game next week. It's going to be sweet.




Great!  Let us know how it goes.  

How's this for the spittle?

Spit (Ex):  Once every 1d4 round (or x/day?), a faerie phiz may spit a flame-suppressing gob up to 300 feet.  This functions as a quench spell (caster level equals faerie phiz's Hit Dice).  Living creatures hit by the spittle must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or suffer an intense itching sensation. This itching imposes a -4 penalty on Armor Class and a -2 penalty on attack rolls and Dexterity-based checks for 1d4 rounds. Additionally, an affected creature must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) to cast a spell. An affected creature can spend a full-round action to scratch itself, thereby ending the effect.


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## freyar (May 12, 2009)

Pretty good!  Should we say that it functions as quench if it hits a fire?


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## Shade (May 12, 2009)

The second sentence implies that, no?


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## demiurge1138 (May 12, 2009)

DC X should be Con-based.


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## freyar (May 12, 2009)

Shade said:


> The second sentence implies that, no?



Sort of, but quench doesn't require a ranged touch.

Agreed to Con-based.


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## Shade (May 12, 2009)

Revising...

Spit (Ex): Once every 1d4 round (or x/day?), a faerie phiz may spit a flame-suppressing gob up to 300 feet. If it strikes a fire, this functions as a quench spell (caster level equals faerie phiz's Hit Dice). Living creatures hit by the spittle must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or suffer an intense itching sensation. This itching imposes a -4 penalty on Armor Class and a -2 penalty on attack rolls and Dexterity-based checks for 1d4 rounds. Additionally, an affected creature must succeed on a Concentration check (DC 20 + spell level) to cast a spell. An affected creature can spend a full-round action to scratch itself, thereby ending the effect.  The save DC is Constitution-based.

Preferences for uses per day or ever 1dx rounds?


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## freyar (May 13, 2009)

No less often than 1d4 rounds, and I'd be happy with at will, which is what I think the original had.


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## Shade (May 13, 2009)

Let's go with 1d4 rounds, since at will seems just a tad too powerful.

Shall we work on the spell lists?

Spells: A faerie phiz casts spells as a 10th-level druid and 10th-level wizard. Additionally, a faerie phiz is considered to have Spell Mastery as a bonus feat for all of its spells. 

Typical Druid Spells Prepared (6/6/5/4/4/3; save DC 15 + spell level): 
0—x; 
1st—x; 
2nd—x; 
3rd—x; 
4th—x;
5th—x.

Typical Wizard Spells Prepared (4/6/5/4/4/3; save DC 15 + spell level): 
0—x; 
1st—x; 
2nd—x; 
3rd—x; 
4th—x;
5th—x.


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## freyar (May 13, 2009)

Druid:
0 - create water x2, detect magic, detect poison, guidance, resistance
1 - cure light wounds, entangle x2, faerie fire, obscuring mist, speak with animals
2 - chill metal, gust of wind, lesser restoration, resist energy (fire), wood shape
...


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## demiurge1138 (May 14, 2009)

3rd--call lightning, cure moderate wounds, plant growth, speak with plants

4th--command plants, control water, dispel magic, spike stones

5th--animal growth, tree stride, wall of thorns

As an aside, tree stride would actually let it move, wouldn't it?


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## demiurge1138 (May 14, 2009)

4/6/5/4/4/3

0th--daze, detect magic, prestidigitation, read magic

1st--charm person, comprehend languages, mage armor, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, shield

2nd--acid arrow, blur, hideous laughter, shatter, whispering wind

3rd--deep slumber, lightning bolt, slow, suggestion

4th--dimensional anchor, dimension door, fear, greater invisibility

5th--baleful polymorph, cloudkill, mind fog


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## freyar (May 14, 2009)

You may be right about tree stride and movement.  Have to think about that one!

I think your spell lists look fine!


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## Shade (May 15, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> As an aside, tree stride would actually let it move, wouldn't it?




I believe so, and nice loophole for an immobile creature!   

Updated.

Damage reduction 10/cold iron and slashing?



> The phiz always has an extensive knowledge of an area’s history and memories of anyone who has ever passed before its eyes. It is capable of remembering entire conversations that may have occurred throughout the span of its life. It is also prone to know volumes of lore and speak many languages that no human or elf can even hope to find nowadays, much less remember.




Racial bonus on Knowledge skills or some sort of "always take 10 on Knowledge checks" ability?

Something like polyglot?



> Ecology: The phiz is not disposed to give its sagelike knowledge to anyone because it does not wish to be haunted by every philosopher and sage in the realm. A phiz is rarely senile despite its great age, although to fool some seekers it pretends to be. The phiz is reclusive and often acts old and weary or irritated with the intrusion of its privacy. The phiz is not afraid of death (a few even welcome it) and cannot be tricked or forced to reveal knowledge and information by threats or coercion, It would rather die by the ax than give information to those arrogant enough to threaten it. The phiz is disinterested in wealth and often laughs at those foolish enough to promise gold and riches. The only way to receive any information from a faerie phiz, other than its possible willingness to divulge it anyhow, is to offer it powerful magical items or rich faerie food--a very dangerous proposition.




Skills: 11 at 13 ranks

Bluff, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (local), Knowledge (nature), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Use Magic Device...


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## freyar (May 15, 2009)

The DR sounds right, though there doesn't seem to be anything equivalent in the original text.

I like both the Knowledge skill "bonuses" and polyglot.

Skills: also Concentration, Listen, and either Spot or Knowledge (geography).


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## demiurge1138 (May 15, 2009)

Racial bonus on all Knowledge checks, can take 10, polyglot and DR all appeal.


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## Shade (May 15, 2009)

Updated.

Armor Class: 20 (+4 size, -1 Dex, +x), touch x, flat-footed x

Did we decide on unearthly grace?  If so, that still only gets us to AC 17.  Does that suffice, or add +3 natural?

Attack: Bite +12 melee (x+4)
Full Attack: Bite +12 melee (x+4)

The original did 2-24 points of damage.  Do we want to go with 2d10, and mention in combat section that it has some impossibly oversized bite?

Feats: 4

Environment: Temperate forests?


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## freyar (May 16, 2009)

I believe we agreed on natural armor earlier, based on their woody nature, as well as unearthly grace.

I don't really like the idea of a tremendous bite on these, since they're primarily immobile super-spellcasters.

Feats: Eschew Materials (maybe bonus), Spell Penetration, Maximize Spell, Extend Spell?  Or some selection like that?

Environment is good.


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## demiurge1138 (May 16, 2009)

More natural armor. Not sure we need to give them much more than +3, since they have access to spells like mage armor and shield. In fact, we should include mage armor in their stat block.

I like the impossibly strong bite, actually.


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## freyar (May 16, 2009)

Hmm, could drop unearthly grace in favor of the spells. Fair enough.

The strong bite is cool, but I just don't get it.


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## Shade (May 18, 2009)

Does something like this work?

Impossible Bite (Su?):  A faerie phiz's bite attack is an extension of the extradimensional space in which it stores its meals.  As such, it deals far more damage than usual for a creature of its size.  Despite the size of its maw, a faerie phiz does not digest food in a normal manner, and thus chooses not to swallow living creatures.


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## freyar (May 20, 2009)

Sure!  Magic always works!


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## Shade (May 20, 2009)

Updated.



freyar said:


> Feats: Eschew Materials (maybe bonus), Spell Penetration, Maximize Spell, Extend Spell?  Or some selection like that?




Those feats seem good, and I agree Eschew Materials should be a bonus feat.  In fact, I think all its spells should be stilled, too.


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## freyar (May 21, 2009)

We should probably give it an SA for free stilling, then, so it doesn't have to pay extra spell levels for everything.


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## Shade (May 26, 2009)

Like so?

Hands-free Spellcasting (Ex):  A faerie phiz may ignore the somatic component of any spell it casts.


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## freyar (May 26, 2009)

"Look, maw, no hands!"  *Crash*  Now where's that broken tooth smily?

Looks good.  Where are we on the feats?  Eschew Materials (B), Spell Penetration, Maximize Spell, Extend Spell, Ability focus (spit) sound good?


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## Shade (May 26, 2009)

Sounds good.   Wanna update the spell lists to reflect the metamagic feats?


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## freyar (May 26, 2009)

Let's extend hideous laughter instead of slow.  Also, extend obscuring mist in place of chill metal, and maximize chill metal in place of animal growth.  How about extended slow in place of dimension door?


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## Shade (May 26, 2009)

All sounds good to me.  Let's see if Demiurge has any opinions on the matter.


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## demiurge1138 (May 27, 2009)

I like all of those options except for replacing dimension door. These guys need all the mobility they can get.


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## Shade (May 27, 2009)

Updated.

Environment: Temperate forests?

Challenge Rating: x

Treasure: x

Advancement: 11-x HD (Tiny); x-x HD (Small)


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## freyar (May 27, 2009)

Extended slow in place of dimensional anchor, then?


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## Shade (May 27, 2009)

Sure.  It probably doesn't care if creatures leave the plane...as long as they leave.


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## demiurge1138 (May 28, 2009)

Shade said:


> Sure.  It probably doesn't care if creatures leave the plane...as long as they leave.




Agreed.


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## Shade (May 28, 2009)

Environment: Temperate forests?

Challenge Rating: x

Treasure: x

Advancement: 11-x HD (Tiny); x-x HD (Small)


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## freyar (May 28, 2009)

Temperate forests sounds right.

CR 12 maybe?  It's a formidable spell-caster but still has limited actions.

They're listed as having Q, T treasure, but they don't seem much like treasure types.  If the conversion is roughly right, maybe 1/2 standard?

11-15 HD (Tiny), 16-30 HD (Small)?


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## demiurge1138 (May 28, 2009)

Half treasure sounds good to me. I'd almost be willing to say CR 11 based on how crippling limited mobility can be, but if you guys agree to 12, I won't argue the point.


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## Shade (May 28, 2009)

Good point on the limited mobility.  That is quite limiting, so I could see CR 11.

Updated.



> An individual phiz increases in hit dice every 100-500 years that it lives, increasing its magic resistance and spell-casting ability as well.




Should we add a special "Advanced Faerie Phiz" section that notes with each X additional HD, the phiz gains one level of innate spellcasting in both druid and wizard, as well as +1 to its spell resistance?


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## freyar (May 28, 2009)

Agreed to all that, including the advanced section.  +1/2 HD?  Is there a standard advancement for Spells?


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## Shade (May 28, 2009)

No real standard for spellcasting advancement for innate casters.

Updated.

What's left?


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## demiurge1138 (May 28, 2009)

I'd say that it advances by class level, preferring mystic theurge, and its SR increases with level, but this works too.

Aside from that, I think we're pretty much done here.


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## freyar (May 29, 2009)

Hmmm, it needs to advance by size, also, but I do like the mystic theurge idea.  Kind of a weird case.  We could add "or by character class" if you want.


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## Shade (May 29, 2009)

Yeah, let's go with both.


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## Shade (May 29, 2009)

Updated.

Does Advancement look good?


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## demiurge1138 (May 30, 2009)

Looks good to me.


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## freyar (Jun 1, 2009)

Pretty good, though I'm unsure how I feel about the class levels increasing SR.  However, I'm willing to go along on that.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 2, 2009)

freyar said:


> Pretty good, though I'm unsure how I feel about the class levels increasing SR.  However, I'm willing to go along on that.




It's reasonably common, especially for playable races with SR (drow, etc).


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## Leopold (Jun 2, 2009)

what's next?


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## freyar (Jun 2, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> It's reasonably common, especially for playable races with SR (drow, etc).




I'd forgotten about that.  Great!



Leopold said:


> what's next?




I think Shade indicated Unseelie Fey would be coming up soon...


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## Leopold (Jun 2, 2009)

freyar said:


> I think Shade indicated Unseelie Fey would be coming up soon...




oooo this is gonna be a big one.


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## Shade (Jun 10, 2009)

*Faerie, Unseelie*

Unseelie faeries are a macabre host of evil and undead beings, the hideous counterpart of the Seelie Court. The Unseelie Court has its own dark queen and other “nobles” who manipulate the Seeming toward their own sinister ends.

*Living Evil Faerie *
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Shadow World 
FREQUENCY: Uncommon 
ORGANIZATION: Court 
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Nocturnal 
DIET: Any food but milk 
INTELLIGENCE: Very to high (11–14) 
TREASURE: U (G) 
ALIGNMENT: Any evil 
NO. APPEARING: 1–8 (100–400) 
ARMOR CLASS: 5 
MOVEMENT: 12, some Fl 15 (B) 
HIT DICE: 4+2 
THAC0: 17 
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d6+1 or by spell 
Special Attacks: Spells, Seeming 
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Invisibility, Seeming, immune to charms/illusions 
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 25% 
SIZE: Tiny to large (6" to 12' tall)
MORALE: Steady (11–12) 
BLOODLINE: None 
BLOOD ABILITIES: None 
PERCEPTION/SEEMING: Extraordinary/ Extraordinary
XP VALUE: 2,000 

*Undead Faerie*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Shadow World
FREQUENCY: Uncommon 
ORGANIZATION: Court 
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Nocturnal 
DIET: Nil
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8–10)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
NO. APPEARING: 4–16 (100–600)
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVEMENT: 15, Fl 24 (B)
HIT DICE: 7+2
THAC0: 13
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d8
Special Attacks: Perception drain, Seeming
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Iron or +1 or better weapons  to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 25% 
SIZE: Tiny to large (6" to 12' tall)
MORALE: Elite (13–14)
BLOODLINE: None
BLOOD ABILITIES: None
PERCEPTION/SEEMING: Extraordinary/ Extraordinary/
XP VALUE: 3,000

Physical Description
The Unseelie Court comprises two types of faeries: evil living faeries, and evil undead faeries. Like the seelie faeries, each is unique in size, shape, and form. 

The evil that the living faeries carry within has corrupted their physical appearances.  Their skin bears ashen tones, their eyes are sunken or blaze with the fever of malevolence, their bodies are withered or bloated. If an evil faerie has horns, they are twisted, if it has wings, they are leathery, if it has a tail, the appendage is barbed. Unseelie faeries are far more likely than seelie faeries to sport cloven feet or taloned hands.

Undead faeries are incorporeal phantasms of their former selves. Their eyes have no pupils—only blank, white-hot glowing orbs that seethe hatred. 

Role in the Campaign
Unseelie faeries are even more likely than their seelie counterparts to torment travelers just for kicks. Their tricks range from merely mean-spirited to seriously harmful or even deadly—particularly if the unseelie faeries believe their victims to be allies of the Seelie Court or otherwise agents of good. PCs may not even realize the source of the attacks.

The Unseelie Court wages an age-old war against the Faerie Queen and the Seelie Court. Characters may find themselves caught in the crossfire, enlisted (willingly or not) to aid one side, or trying to redirect the war efforts toward subduing a larger menace: the Cold Rider (assuming that shadowy presence doesn’t win over the Dark Queen first).

Habitat/Society
The Unseelie Court is a hideous mockery of the Seelie Court—in a sense, the Faerie Queen’s entourage as seen through a fun-house mirror. The Dark Queen (see below) and her followers reside in the Shadow World’s most haunted, twisted forest. There, they plot against the seelie faeries and others they consider their enemies. Because evil seeks its own reflection and treachery breeds mistrust, the unseelie faeries see an enemy in nearly everyone they encounter.

Ecology
Undead members of the Unseelie Court come into being when a faerie (of any alignment) dies in a battle between the two courts. The horror of kin slaying kin creates a ripple through the Seeming itself, preventing the deceased faerie from dissipating into it. The creature’s spirit becomes trapped, sentenced to eternally walk the Shadow World but stripped of the magical abilities it once had. It becomes an unthinking being, lashing out in anger and resentment at the living, held in check only by the Dark Queen.

Variations
Gremlins and imps (see the MONSTROUS MANUAL accessory) have been spotted among the Unseelie Court.

Combat and other Encounters
Unlike their counterparts in the Seelie Court, unseelie faeries harbor no reservations about engaging in hand-to-hand combat. Peaceful encounters are rare. 

Combat
Unseelie faeries always try to use their ability to turn invisible to gain the advantage of surprise. Once discovered by an opponent, their strategies vary.

Living evil faeries use their spells until they reach melee range. They can cast five of the following spells per day: any 1st- or 2nd-level spell from the charm sphere,  destt roy (create) water, entangle, faerie fire, protection from good (evil), putrify (purify) food and drink, shillelagh; badberry (goodberry) , barkskin, obscurement, produce flame, speak with animals, warp wood; bestow (remove ) curse, pyrotechnics, spike growth. In addition, they can cast seelie spell of forgettingan unlimited number of times.

In melee, they fight with magical (+1) short swords individually scaled to each faerie’s size and carrying an enchantment that works only when borne by a faerie. If fighting nonfaeries, they also use their Seeming abilities, both offensively and defensively (see the “Faerie, Seelie” description).

Living unseelie faeries are immune to charms and illusions, but have several weaknesses. Iron weapons inflict an additional 3 points of damage per hit. Salt renders them unable to turn invisible for 1d4 turns.

Undead faeries close to melee range as quickly as possible. The touch of such a creature chills the blood and clouds the mind. For each successful hit, victims suffer 1d8 points of damage and lose 5 points from their perception score. Undead faeries can be hit only with iron or +1 or better weapons. They are vulnerable to holy water, which inflicts 1d6+1 damage points per vial. They can be turned as spectres. 

Peaceful Encounters
Evil doesn’t fight fair. Even in what seems to have been a “peaceful” encounter with an unseelie faerie, travelers often walk away victims of a curse.

Perception and/or Seeming
Unseelie faeries are matched only by their seelie counterparts in command of the Seeming and ability to see through it. Against nonfaerie opponents, they use it constantly to bewilder and intimidate their foes. Against the Seelie Court, however, they know such illusions are useless.

Originally appeared in Blood Spawn (1992).

For those of you joining (or returning to) us recently, these are the evil counterpart to the seelie faeries, and should follow a similar "template".


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 11, 2009)

OK, I don't think that undead should necessarily be a seperate type of unseelie. Perhaps we should have undead-themed abilities as options, such as Tomb-Tainted, Vulnerable to Turning, and ability damaging natural attacks.


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## Shade (Jun 11, 2009)

Yeah, that's probably the best approach.

Should we use the same basic stat blocks as the seelie faeries, making changes where they seem appropriate?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 11, 2009)

I can see that saving us some time. We might want to tweak the stats a bit, but I think it's a great place to start.


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## freyar (Jun 11, 2009)

I agree with doing the unseelie based on the seelie stat blocks, but I think the undead fairies seem like separate monsters (but not such complicated ones).  Maybe a sidebar would work.  My main thing is that the undead ones  should be incorporeal and have a few specific abilities.  Like a mini-template added to the unseelie or seelie fey, perhaps.


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## Shade (Jun 11, 2009)

I copied the seelie faerie writeup to a new Homebrews entry for us to modify.


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## freyar (Jun 12, 2009)

Let's make a quick decision about the undead ones before modifying the stats.  I think I'd like a "mini-template" added to seelie or unseelie fey that basically makes them incorporeal undead with appropriate special abilities.  (Specific points negotiable. )


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 12, 2009)

Oh, the undead unseelie are incorporeal, aren't they? Huh.


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2009)

So are we leaning toward undead as a separate entry?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 16, 2009)

I am now.


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2009)

I was thinking sidebar, maybe, but a short separate entry is ok.


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2009)

OK, a sidebar at the very least.

Do the current sizes/ability scores still pertain?



> In melee, they fight with magical (+1) short swords individually scaled to each faerie’s size and carrying an enchantment that works only when borne by a faerie.




It sounds like they generally carry short swords, which gain a magical enhancement that is an aspect of the faerie wielding it, not the weapon itself.


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2009)

I'd be happy keeping the same ability scores, since these are the "mirror" of seelie fey.

Agreed about the swords.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 17, 2009)

Sounds good. And perhaps part of the smorgasboard of abilities is having more plusses on their sword?


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## freyar (Jun 17, 2009)

Agreed.  Time to start editing tables?


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## Shade (Jun 17, 2009)

Indeed!

I dig the idea of improved blades.


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2009)

Starting with appearance (strikethrough is old, italics is new):

Head
1 - Human
2 - Goblinoid
3 - Elven _Orc_
4 - Deer _Bovine_
5 - Canine
6 - _Rotted _Pumpkin

Head Adornment
1 - Horns
2 - _Moth _Antennae
3 - Feathers _Weeds_
4 - _Moldy _Leaves
5 - _Dried _Blooms
6 - Motes of light _darkness_

That look like the right direction to go?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 19, 2009)

Change bovine to goat, I think. I think also you might be going a bit far. Motes of darkness I like, but feathers and leaves should still be options, moldy or no.


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## Shade (Jun 19, 2009)

Looking at some of the other evil fey for inspiration...


Beguiling Song
Corruption of Beauty (unseelie nymph)
Gaze of ruin (siabrie)
Lose the Way (yuki-on-na)
Powerful Build
Shadow-related powers
Size change (spriggan)
SLAs: bestow curse, crushing despair, rage, rusting grasp, scare, shatter
Sneak attack
Sylvan warrior (banshrae)
Unique curses


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2009)

Swapping in any or all of those powers seems good to me.


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## Shade (Jun 22, 2009)

Hmmm...which on the current list should we drop to make room for some of these?

I could see dropping Animal Companion, Spritelike, and Special Arrows.  What else?


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## freyar (Jun 22, 2009)

Well, the SLAs you have listed can go with the themes.  Let's make the Shadow-related powers as a them for SLAs, also.  (Actually, I wonder if the original text supports themes too much, but we should still put these in the SLAs.)

With the ones you suggest dropping, we need to drop six more things.  How about Terrain Feature Dependent, either Powerful Build or Size Change (since they are similar in spirit), Musical Instrument, Greater Musical Instrument, Sneak Attack or Sylvan Warrior (I don't know the latter, but these also sound similar), and Multi-layered (especially if we don't do themes).


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 24, 2009)

Well, the special arrows can be switched out for the better weapons, certainly.


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## Shade (Jun 25, 2009)

freyar said:


> Well, the SLAs you have listed can go with the themes.  Let's make the Shadow-related powers as a them for SLAs, also.  (Actually, I wonder if the original text supports themes too much, but we should still put these in the SLAs.)




Good points.  I can definitely see a shadow theme, probably keep the trickster, maybe add "frightener" and "avenger" themes?



freyar said:


> With the ones you suggest dropping, we need to drop six more things.  How about Terrain Feature Dependent, either Powerful Build or Size Change (since they are similar in spirit), Musical Instrument, Greater Musical Instrument, Sneak Attack or Sylvan Warrior (I don't know the latter, but these also sound similar), and Multi-layered (especially if we don't do themes).




We don't necessarily have to drop anything...we can just tinker with the random number ranges.

Sylvan Warrior looks like a watered-down unearthly grace (just the AC bonus), so we can drop that.

Let's drop powerful build, as the actual size-changing faeries are more iconic.



demiurge1138 said:


> Well, the special arrows can be switched out for the better weapons, certainly.




Good point!


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## freyar (Jun 25, 2009)

Shadow, trickster, frightener, and avenger sound good.

Let's keep Terrain Feature Dependent and Multilayered, then.  I'm 50-50 on the musical instruments.

How does it look?


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## Shade (Jun 26, 2009)

Updated.  (Whew!)

I haven't added any shadow-related powers or unique curses to the main abilities list yet, nor have I moved the SLAs I listed above into any of the SLA lists.

Feel free to expand on the themes.


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## freyar (Jun 27, 2009)

I think swapping the avenger SLA list into the frightener list would be a good start due to the illusions there now.  We could change some out for necromancy also.


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## Shade (Jun 29, 2009)

Oops...the SLA lists are still leftovers from the Seelie Faerie that I typed over.  We'll need to rebuild them all from scratch.


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## freyar (Jun 29, 2009)

Well, trickster can stay the same.  And, like I said, what's there for the avenger list is a good start on a list for the frightener.


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## Shade (Jun 30, 2009)

Ahh...OK.  I'll copy the avenger list over to the frightener.

Here are the spells from the shadow subschool that we may want to add to the shadow faerie's SLA list:

Project Image
Shades
Shadow Conjuration
Shadow Conjuration, Greater
Shadow Evocation
Shadow Evocation, Greater
Shadow Walk
Simulacrum


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 30, 2009)

Ooh. Simulacrum. Didn't even think about it, but like it.


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## freyar (Jun 30, 2009)

What the heck, let's give it all of them, or at least one copy of the ones with lesser/greater versions.


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## Shade (Jul 2, 2009)

Updated.

Shades (_Me_s?) might be a bit too powerful compared to the other seelie and unseelie theme lists.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 2, 2009)

Shades is really, really powerful, yes. Let's skip it.


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## Shade (Jul 2, 2009)

More work on the SLA lists...

Avengers choose from the following list:
Diminutive: acid splash, flare, touch of fatigue
Tiny: entangle, faerie fire, true strike
Small: bull's strength, rage, shatter, summon swarm
Medium: hallucinatory terrain, major image, secret page
Large: crushing despair, mark of justice, rusting grasp
Huge: creeping doom, earthquake, reverse gravity, whirlwind

Frighteners choose from the following list:
Diminutive: dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation
Tiny: bane, cause fear, doom
Small: mirror image, misdirection, phantom trap, scare
Medium: fear, hallucinatory terrain, major image
Large: mirage arcana, nightmare, phantasmal killer
Huge: eyebite, maze, symbol of fear, veil 

Shadow faeries choose from the following list:
Diminutive: open/close, 2 more
Tiny: chill touch, darkness, 1 more
Small: ghoul touch, obscuring mist, shadow conjuration
Medium: deeper darkness, shadow evocation, vampiric touch
Large: black tentacles, greater shadow conjuration, nondetection
Huge: greater shadow evocation, power word blind, simulacrum

Tricksters choose from the following list:
Diminutive: faerie fire, ghost sound, prestidigitation
Tiny: entangle, grease, lesser confusion
Small: daze monster, hideous laughter, misdirection
Medium: deep slumber, quench, warp wood
Large: baleful polymorph, confusion, song of discord
Huge: maze, mislead, repel gravity


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 2, 2009)

Let's switch nondetection for armor of darkness (hooray additional SRD domains). And we could give frighteners bolts of bedevilment instead of eyebite.


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## Shade (Jul 2, 2009)

Excellent!


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## freyar (Jul 3, 2009)

Diminutive shadow: inflict minor wounds, daze
Tiny: magic aura or maybe obscure object?


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## Shade (Jul 6, 2009)

Great!

Updated.

Skills: An unseelie faerie has skills common to all of its kind (Concentration, Hide, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spot), in addition to a number of skills based on its theme. The number of additional skills and associated ranks are listed in its statistics block. When crafting an unseelie faerie, assign the additional skills and ranks based on the following themes:

Avenger: 5 skills

Frightener: 5 skills

Shadow Faerie: 5 skills

Trickster: Bluff, Disguise, Perform (comedy), Sense Motive, Sleight of Hand


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 6, 2009)

Avenger: Intimidate, Sense Motive, Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Climb and Jump

Frightener: Climb, Disable Device, Intimidate, Open Lock, Search

Shadow Faerie: Balance, Climb, Sleight of Hand, Tumble, Use Magic Device


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## freyar (Jul 6, 2009)

Those look good to me!


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## Shade (Jul 6, 2009)

Agreed.  

Feats: An unseelie faerie has feats common to all of its kind, in addition to a number of feats based on its theme. When crafting an unseelie faerie, select feats from the common list and the list based on its theme:

Common: Alertness, Dodge, Empower Spell-Like Ability, Quicken Spell-Like Ability, Skill Focus, Weapon Finesse (Tiny, Small, and Medium only) 

Avenger: 4 feats

Frightener: 4 feats

Shadow Faerie: 4 feats

Trickster: Combat Expertise, Deft Hands, Improved Feint, Persuasive


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 6, 2009)

Looking at the avenger's flavor text, I think that Knowledge (nobility and royalty), or possibly Jump, should be replaced with Survival, since they're all about tracking people down and avenging slights.

Hm, feats...

Avenger: Track, Power Attack (Large and Huge only), Two-Weapon Fighting, Great Fortitude

Frightener: Stealthy, Improved Initiative, Blind-fight, Combat Reflexes

Shadow Faerie: Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Whirlwind Attack


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2009)

Those look pretty good, though we might put Empower SLA in there for somebody.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 7, 2009)

Empower SLA is one of the "common" ones avaliable to all.


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2009)

Oops, missed that somehow.


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## Shade (Jul 7, 2009)

Updated.

I think we need to work some curses into the special abilities and/or SLA lists.  Other than that, I think we're nearly finished!


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 7, 2009)

Curses, huh?

Curse of Nature's Blindness (Su): When this unseelie faerie curses an opponent, the victim must pass a DC X Will save or be completely unable to see any creatures with the fey or animal type, as if they were under the effects of an improved invisibility spell.

Curse of Familicide (Su): When this unseelie faerie curses an opponent, the victim must pass a DC X Will save or, for the next 24 hours, see his friends and family as grotesque monsters and be forced to attack them to the best of his ability. This acts as the "attack nearest creature" function of a confusion spell except that the victim only targets those that he would ordinarily be friendly or helpful towards.

Curse of Cannibalism (Su): When this unseelie faerie curses an opponent, the victim must pass a DC X Will save or forever be able only to gain nutrition from the flesh of his own race. All other foods turn to ashes in his mouth, and unless he eats the flesh of his own kind, he will begin to take damage from starvation.

Not sure how I feel about the common phrasing in the first sentence, though, if somebody wants to polish that up.


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2009)

The phrasing is fine by me, but two notes.  "The save DC is Charisma-based."  And the permanent ones need to specify a way to remove the curse.  Remove curse?  Break enchantment?  Etc?


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## Shade (Jul 7, 2009)

Those are fantastic!

I think remove curse is probably appropriate, although we might require a caster level check opposed by the faerie's Hit Dice.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 7, 2009)

Remove curse works, break enchantment works with a level check (DC = HD of the unseelie faerie)?


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Remove curse works, break enchantment works with a level check (DC = HD of the unseelie faerie)?



Sure!


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## Shade (Jul 7, 2009)

Yeah, that looks right.  I find it odd that the "better" spell (level 5) requires caster level checks, but the "worse" one (level 3 or 4) does not.

Updated.

Anything left before moving on to the undead unseelie?


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## freyar (Jul 8, 2009)

Well, break enchantment is a little more versatile, right?

These seem done.  Having the seelie framework made them easier.

Undead unseelie a template that can be added to any seelie or unseelie fey?  Or just any fey?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 8, 2009)

I know, that is wierd. Perhaps it's because break enchantment is more versatile? If we want to reverse those for this application, I'd be all for it.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 8, 2009)

I think we should allow undead unseelie to be applied to any fey.


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## Shade (Jul 8, 2009)

Undead unseelie template, here we come...



> Undead faeries are incorporeal phantasms of their former selves. Their eyes have no pupils—only blank, white-hot glowing orbs that seethe hatred.






> Undead members of the Unseelie Court come into being when a faerie (of any alignment) dies in a battle between the two courts. The horror of kin slaying kin creates a ripple through the Seeming itself, preventing the deceased faerie from dissipating into it. The creature’s spirit becomes trapped, sentenced to eternally walk the Shadow World but stripped of the magical abilities it once had. It becomes an unthinking being, lashing out in anger and resentment at the living, held in check only by the Dark Queen.






> Undead faeries close to melee range as quickly as possible. The touch of such a creature chills the blood and clouds the mind. For each successful hit, victims suffer 1d8 points of damage and lose 5 points from their perception score. Undead faeries can be hit only with iron or +1 or better weapons. They are vulnerable to holy water, which inflicts 1d6+1 damage points per vial. They can be turned as spectres.


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## freyar (Jul 8, 2009)

Ok, first off, gains incorporeal subtype.  Loses abilities and attacks, gains incorporeal touch (1d8 plus X Wis damage/drain?).


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 9, 2009)

Loses spell-like abilities only, perhaps? If they lose all of their abilities, we might was well just make them a creature and not a template.


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## freyar (Jul 9, 2009)

Yes, that sounds right.

Also, the "unthinking" bit makes me think that there should be an Int penalty, though I could see compensating with a Cha boost.


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## Shade (Jul 9, 2009)

Agreed to losing spell-like abilities only.

I could see an Int penalty, or even a set Int somewhere in the 5-7 range.

Cha boost sounds good.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 9, 2009)

Int penalty of -6 would be punishing enough that it'd drop most fey into the 5-7 range. I'm generally not a fan of set abilities in my templates.


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## Shade (Jul 9, 2009)

That works for me.


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## freyar (Jul 9, 2009)

-6 Int, -2 Wis, +4 Cha?  Just throwing in the Wis penalty since it feels right, but I'm ok to drop it.  Definitely agree with demiurge about set abilities.


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## Shade (Jul 9, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

I added the unnatural aura of wraiths, as I thought it seemed appropriate for such a perversion of the natural world.  If you'd rather drop it, that's fine.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Is it normal to have incorporeal touch damage advance with size?  Just seems funny, that's all, though I guess it makes sense for balance reasons.

What needs to go after "Incorporeal Touch (Ex):"?

What do we think about damage vs drain?  I could go for drain, but I wonder if it might be too much.

CR is going to be tough with the loss of SLAs, isn't it?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 10, 2009)

Damage, not drain is fine by me. Increasing damage by size is standard, viz dread wraith. 

I like unnatural aura.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Damage it is, then.  I also like unnatural aura.


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

freyar said:


> What needs to go after "Incorporeal Touch (Ex):"?




Nothing.  That was a placeholder while I found another template that granted incorporeal touch, which appears to just go in the attack and damage lines.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Ok, then.   We can drop the ? in the template, as I like the values you have.  Organization: solitary, pair, or court (4-12)?  Is there anything left really but to work out the CR?


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

We could try a few sample creatures to get a feel for CR.   Maybe something relatively weak, like a pixie, and something with a truckload of abilities, like the hoary hunter?


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Even a nymph could lose a lot.  Sure, that's a good idea.  Where do I find the hoary hunter?


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

We can throw the nymph in the mix too. It shouldn't take too long.

Hoary Hunter :: d20srd.org


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Oooh, epic!  Let's do it!

Pixie first?


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

*Undead Unseelie Pixie*
Small Undead (Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 1d12 (6 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), fly 60 ft. (good)
Armor Class: 20 (+1 size, +4 Dex, +5 deflection), touch 20, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/–
Attack: Incorporeal touch +5 melee (1d6 plus 1d6 Wis)
Full Attack: Incorporeal touch +5 melee (1d6 plus 1d6 Wis)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: —
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron, darkvision 60 ft., greater invisibility, low-light vision, spell resistance 15, +2 turn resistance, undead traits, unnatural aura
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +6, Will +3
Abilities: Str —, Dex 18, Con —, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 20
Skills: Bluff +9, Concentration +4, Escape Artist +8, Hide +8, Listen +9, Move Silently +8, Ride +8, Search +6, Sense Motive +5, Spot +9
Feats: Alertness, Dodge (B), Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Temperate forests
Organization: Solitary, pair, or court (4-12)
Challenge Rating: 4+
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 2–3 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: +4+

_This being resembles an insubstantial, very small elf, but with longer ears and gossamer wings.  Its eyes have no pupils—only blank, white-hot glowing orbs that seethe hatred._

An undead unseelie pixie stands about 2-1/2 feet tall and is weightless.

Undead unseelie pixies speak Sylvan and Common, and may know other languages as well.

Combat

Greater Invisibility (Su): An undead unseelie pixie remains invisible even when it attacks. This ability is constant, but the pixie can suppress or resume it as a free action.

Unnatural Aura (Su): Animals, whether wild or domesticated, can sense the unnatural presence of an undead unseelie pixie at a distance of 30 feet. They will not willingly approach nearer than that and panic if forced to do so; they remain panicked as long as they are within that range.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Wow, that's really hard to damage.  And a decent touch attack!  CR 5 or 6?


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

Yeah, I'd say that are at least 1 CR better than a typical pixie.

Although the special attacks portion of the template didn't specifically eliminate the special arrows, they no longer apply due to "Attacks: The creature loses all its attacks and gains an incorporeal touch attack."   Is that sufficient, or should we note in the SA entry that they also lose any special attacks pertaining to the use of manufactured weapons?


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

It ought to be sufficient as is, but I guess it can't hurt to be specific.

Here's the nymph, I think:

Medium Undead (Augmented Fey, Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 6d12 (39 hp) 
Initiative: +3 
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), swim 20 ft. 
Armor Class: 19 (+3 Dex, +6 deflection), touch 19, flat-footed 16 
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+3 
Attack: Incorporeal touch +6 melee (1d8+1d6 Wis)
Full Attack: Incorporeal touch +6 melee (1d8+1d6 Wis)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft. 
Special Attacks: Blinding beauty, stunning glance 
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron, low-light vision, unearthly grace, wild empathy, turn resistance +2 
Saves: Fort +7, Ref +12, Will +11 
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 23 
Skills: ...
Feats: Combat Casting, Dodge, Weapon Finesse 
Environment: Temperate forests 
Organization: Solitary 
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: Standard 
Alignment: Advancement: 7–12 HD (Medium) 
Level Adjustment: +X


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 10, 2009)

Agreed to specifying the loss of the manufactured weapon attacks, although some of the other props I think we should keep--undead unseelie satyrs with ghostly pipes.

So, put me down for "torn", then?


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Let's get rid of manufactured weapons but note that other equipment needed for the base creatures Su abilities become incorporeal.  We can rip off the ghostly equipment sidebar from ghosts.


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

That'll work.

Let's see how the big boy turns out...

*Undead Unseelie Hoary Hunter*
Medium Undead (Cold, Incorporeal)
Hit Dice: 46d12 (299 hp)
Initiative: +19
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 46 (+11 Dex, +15 insight, +10 deflection), touch 46, flat-footed 35
Base Attack/Grapple: +23/—
Attack: Incorporeal touch +34 melee (1d8 plus 1d6 Wis)
Full Attack: Incorporeal touch +34 melee (1d8 plus 1d6 Wis)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/epic and cold iron, darkvision 60 ft.,  immunity to cold, incorporeal traits, low-light vision, spell resistance 36, +2 turn resistance, undead traits, unnatural aura, vulnerability to fire
Saves: Fort +28, Ref +36, Will +30
Abilities: Str —, Dex 33, Con —, Int 15, Wis 21, Cha 30
Skills: Diplomacy +16, Hide +60, Intimidate +59, Knowledge (geography, nature) +51, Listen +54, Move Silently +60, Ride +60, Search +51, Sense Motive +54, Spot +54, Survival +54 (+58 following tracks)
Feats: Blind-Fight, Cleave, Great Cleave, Improved Critical (longsword), Improved Initiative, Mounted Combat, Power Attack, Ride-by Attack, Spirited Charge, Track, Trample, Weapon Focus (longsword)
Epic Feats: Dire Charge, Epic Weapon Focus (longsword), Overwhelming Critical (longsword), Superior Initiative
Environment: Any cold
Organization: Solitary, pair, or court (4-12)
Challenge Rating: 25+
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral evil
Advancement: 47+ HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —

Combat

A hoary hunter's incorporeal touch attacks are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Unnatural Aura (Su): Animals, whether wild or domesticated, can sense the unnatural presence of an undead hoary hunter at a distance of 30 feet. They will not willingly approach nearer than that and panic if forced to do so; they remain panicked as long as they are within that range.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Hmmm, I don't think the nymph is really any tougher than the pixie.  And the hoary hunter's probably not CR 25, unless we switch the critical feats to the incorporeal touch maybe.


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## Shade (Jul 10, 2009)

Perhaps we should add Cha modifier to incorporeal touch damage?  That might help scale them a bit more.

Don't incorporeal creatures usually fly (with perfect maneuverability)?   I'm wondering if we shouldn't just drop all the base fey's movement modes other than flight, and give them all fly 50 ft. (perfect), allowing them to retain their original flight speed if greater.   Thoughts?


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Either add Cha to damage or do a CR table based on HD.

I had that thought about speed, too, but forgot to post it.  I agree with your suggestion.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 11, 2009)

Agreed to scaling damage with Cha. Also, the hoary hunter should lose the SLA listing in its special attacks line.


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## freyar (Jul 11, 2009)

So the attacks are (if we just go with Cha instead of 1.5 Cha or something)
pixie: Incorporeal touch +5 melee (1d6+5 plus 1d6 Wis)
nymph: Incorporeal touch +6 melee (1d8+6 plus 1d6 Wis)
hoary hunter: Incorporeal touch +34 melee (1d8+10 plus 1d6 Wis)

A little better.  But I think we might still need to go with a table of CRs.  I think a lot of fey have most of their CR invested in Su and Sp abilities.

Edit: had a flash!  Perhaps we should add in Su abilities scaling with HD (or even scale damage dice or Wis damage w/HD).  I could see some sort of scaling fear aura or something.


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## Shade (Jul 13, 2009)

freyar said:


> So the attacks are (if we just go with Cha instead of 1.5 Cha or something)
> pixie: Incorporeal touch +5 melee (1d6+5 plus 1d6 Wis)
> nymph: Incorporeal touch +6 melee (1d8+6 plus 1d6 Wis)
> hoary hunter: Incorporeal touch +34 melee (1d8+10 plus 1d6 Wis)
> ...




Sounds good.  I'll expect your CR table on my e-desk by the end of the day.  



freyar said:


> Edit: had a flash!  Perhaps we should add in Su abilities scaling with HD (or even scale damage dice or Wis damage w/HD).  I could see some sort of scaling fear aura or something.




I wouldn't mind adding a little something to make them more interesting.


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## freyar (Jul 13, 2009)

I need more data!   Seriously, though, I don't think we're done with the abilities on these yet.

So far, I've suggested a scaling fear aura.  Anything else we can think of?  Higher HD ones get some sort of energy drain or malevolence or something?  Some SLAs we'd like to add back?


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## Shade (Jul 13, 2009)

I believe I was negligent in posting thier original stat block earlier.   Here it is:

Faerie, Unseelie
Undead Faerie
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Shadow World
FREQUENCY: Uncommon 
ORGANIZATION: Court 
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Nocturnal 
DIET: Nil
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8–10)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
NO. APPEARING: 4–16 (100–600)
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVEMENT: 15, Fl 24 (B)
HIT DICE: 7+2
THAC0: 13
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d8
Special Attacks: Perception drain, Seeming
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Iron or +1 or better weapons  to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 25% 
SIZE: Tiny to large (6" to 12' tall)
MORALE: Elite (13–14)
BLOODLINE: None
BLOOD ABILITIES: None
PERCEPTION/SEEMING: Extraordinary/ Extraordinary/
XP VALUE: 3,000


Apparently, they should gain spell resistance if the original creature didn't have it.  Also, look at the numbers for the organization!   The HD line might suggest unholy toughness as well.


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## freyar (Jul 13, 2009)

So let's scale the SR with HD.  Unholy toughness is good, also.

I think the organization refers to the fact that the Unseelie Queen holds them in check in her court.


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## Shade (Jul 14, 2009)

Good point on the org.

Updated.


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## freyar (Jul 15, 2009)

Any other scaling abilities sound appealing?


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## Shade (Jul 15, 2009)

The fear you suggested earlier could work.  Maybe some perversion of typical fey traits and themes?

Blight, terrifying animals, putrifying water, and so forth?


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## freyar (Jul 16, 2009)

Good idea!  I particularly like blight, though I guess we have the animals covered with unnatural aura.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 17, 2009)

Something like:

Blight (Su): An undead unseelie fey radiates an aura that kills all vegetation within 10 feet. Any creatures of the plant type within the aura must make a DC X Fortitude save or take 1d6 damage per 2 HD of the undead unseelie and be sickened for one minute

? 

Or just the spell blight as an SLA?


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## freyar (Jul 17, 2009)

I could see either the scaling Su or a list of SLAs that are added cumulatively with HD.  Any preference?


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## Shade (Jul 17, 2009)

I prefer the scaling Su...it seems odd to strip them of SLAs, then tack on new ones.


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## freyar (Jul 18, 2009)

That makes sense.


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## Shade (Jul 20, 2009)

Updated.


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

Fear aura?  Creatures of fewer HD within 30 ft maybe become frightened?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 21, 2009)

Not feeling the fear aura. I think unnatural presence is enough.


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

You think these have enough?  I'm still not quite sure how to do the CR on them.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2009)

I'm thinking CR +1 or +2 in most cases, but maybe only +0 or +1 if the creature loses SLAs and/or spellcasting?


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

Let's do CR +1 with a note that certain cases with few SLAs are +2 and others with many SLAs are +0?  Does the hoary hunter look strong enough now?


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## Shade (Jul 22, 2009)

Updated.

I assessed the pixie as CR/LA unchanged, the nymph as +1, and the hoary hunter as unchanged.  I'd imagine something like the redcap would warrant a +2


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## freyar (Jul 22, 2009)

I'd have to give the pixie at least +1 CR actually.  It's nearly untouchable, has better damage output, Su vs SLAs are kind of a wash, and it even has almost 4x the hp (albeit still a very low number).  Or do you just think the regular pixie is over-CRed?


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## Shade (Jul 23, 2009)

Hmmm...it's still got only a single HD, and while it is tough to hit, a single hit or two could destroy it.   The loss of the sleep arrows is a bigger hit on them than the loss of SLAs.

I think CR 4 suffices.


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## freyar (Jul 23, 2009)

Fair enough.  Are these done, then?


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## Shade (Jul 23, 2009)

I think so!


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## Shade (Sep 18, 2009)

Halloween is approaching...

*BOGEYMAN*
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
NO. APPEARING: 1 or 1-4
ARMOR CLASS: 10
MOVE: 12”
HIT DICE: 2
% IN LAIR: Nil
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2 claws
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Illusion, scare
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Darkness
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Semi-
ALIGNMENT Chaotic evil
SIZE: S
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil
LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: II/44 + 2/hp

A truly despicable creature, the bogeyman is a type of psychic leech that feeds on the fear and terror it creates in its victims, who are usually young children. The bogeyman attacks at night when its victim is alone in a darkened room. It surrounds itself with a form of continual darkness with a radius of 5 feet and uses phantasmal force and audible glamer to create night terrors out of familiar objects in the room. If the intended victim proves resistant to the illusion, the bogeyman will use its ability to scare, causing the target to fall into a trembling fit and allowing the creature to feed on the fear that the victim exudes.

The bogeyman does not confine its choice of victims to children. Lone travelers journeying through deserted woodlands or desolate moors, or a solitary person walking along a dark city street, may also find themselves victimized by this creature. A bogeyman usually appears alone, but in the city there is a 5% chance that 1-4 of these creatures will gang up on some unfortunate target.

Anyone attempting to attack a bogeyman will do so at -4 “to hit” because of the sphere of darkness surrounding the creature. Infravision and ultravision are useless against this magical darkness, but the bogeyman can see through it to the area beyond. When forced to fight, the bogeyman can attack twice per round with its claws. It uses each of its innate spell-like abilities (phantasmal force, audible glamer, scare, and continual darkness) at the 5th level of ability, and can employ each type of magic twice per day. 

If its darkness aura is dispelled, the bogeyman is revealed as a puny-looking, 3’-tall creature with a bulging head, staring eyes, and dead-white skin. Because of its cowardly nature, the bogeyman will flee immediately from any strong opposition or upon losing its protective darkness. It will head for the nearest large patch of darkness and attempt to conceal itself until it can reuse its continual darkness ability.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #101 (1985).


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 18, 2009)

OK, the darkness aura is plainly some sort of concealment, either standard or full. The phantasmal force and audible glamour can be replaced with major image. Do we want to keep it at just scare, or ramp things up to fear? They are pretty weak, so I think scare is still appropriate.


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## Shade (Sep 18, 2009)

I think scare will suffice for scaring mostly children.


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## freyar (Sep 19, 2009)

Let's start with type.  For some reason, I fancy these as fey.  Seems to me like they have devil-like see in darkness.


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## Cleon (Sep 20, 2009)

freyar said:


> Let's start with type.  For some reason, I fancy these as fey.  Seems to me like they have devil-like see in darkness.




I'd go for a Small-sized Fey.

I'm thinking it would have stat similar to a Nixie or Pixie, except for being only Semi-intelligent. That's pretty unusual for a fey.

So, something like Str 7, Dex 16, Con 11, Int 3, Wis 13, Cha 16 for its ability scores?

Also note that the -4 AC it gets from its Darkness Aura is the same AC benefit as _invisibility_ gives in D&D/AD&D, so I'm thinking the Aura makes it effectively invisible in dark and shadowy conditions. Doesn't the Shadow Demon have something similar?


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## freyar (Sep 20, 2009)

I was thinking more along the lines of the darkness spell and 20% concealment miss chance.  That seems like the "3e" way to do this somehow.  Did the older editions use miss chances in a consistent way?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 20, 2009)

I like the 20% miss chance and a huge bonus to hide in dark conditions. Fey is very appropriate.


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## Cleon (Sep 21, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> I like the 20% miss chance and a huge bonus to hide in dark conditions. Fey is very appropriate.




I started out thinking 20% concealment and a big Hide bonus in darkness was the way to go to, but then I thought that there are a lot of small fey that have full invisibility at will, so giving the Bogeyman something on par made sense.

It also seemed to fit their modus operandi. If they spend a lot of time lurking in bedrooms terrifying kids they have to have some highly reliable way of escaping the parents' attention.

Still, if it's a big enough Hide bonus to render them effectively undetectably to a 1st-3rd level NPC it would work. Maybe they can take 10 on Hide checks when in their Aura of Darkness? Or it could just require a Spot DC or 25 or so to notice a Bogeyman in its Darkness Aura.

Anyhow, I'll agree on 20% concealment.

Oh, and freyar I don't remember AD&D or BECMI D&D using miss chances much at all, except for a couple of supernatural effects.


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## Shade (Sep 21, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

The really low Int does seem a bit off...how about boosting it to at least 7?  Even the brutish redcap has Int 11!

So is scare going to be an SLA, or a Su ability?

The darkness aura seems a no-brainer, but we might consider this as well...

Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, a shadow mastiff can disappear into the shadows, giving it total concealment. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, will.

Also, see in darkness like a devil?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 21, 2009)

Agreed to the Int boost to 7. Scare should be an SLA, I think. See in darkness is an obvious choice.


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## freyar (Sep 21, 2009)

Yeah, agreed to all those suggestions.


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## Shade (Sep 21, 2009)

freyar said:


> Yeah, agreed to all those suggestions.




Including shadow blend?


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## freyar (Sep 22, 2009)

Good question, we need to think how that would interact with the aura.  How about darkness aura (as spell, with concealment), but shadow blend (total concealment) in areas with natural shadow?


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## Cleon (Sep 22, 2009)

Shade said:


> The really low Int does seem a bit off...how about boosting it to at least 7?  Even the brutish redcap has Int 11!
> 
> So is scare going to be an SLA, or a Su ability?
> 
> ...




Int 7 is fine by me.

I'd have gone for Scare as a Supernatural ability meself, but I have no objection to making it a SLA.

Shadow Blend is an ideal fit to how I imagine their hide-in-darkness works.



freyar said:


> Good question, we need to think how that would interact with the aura. How about darkness aura (as spell, with concealment), but shadow blend (total concealment) in areas with natural shadow?




Good idea! I'll go along with that.


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## Shade (Sep 22, 2009)

freyar said:


> Good question, we need to think how that would interact with the aura.  How about darkness aura (as spell, with concealment), but shadow blend (total concealment) in areas with natural shadow?




Re-reading it, it sounds like it can only use its "darkness aura" 2/day.  Otherwise, it flees to natural shadows.

So how about just giving it deeper darkness (centered on self rather than an object) as a 2/day SLA, along with shadow blend?


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## freyar (Sep 23, 2009)

That seems reasonable enough with a 2/day limit on the Su (or Sp?) darkness aura.


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## Shade (Sep 23, 2009)

Updated.

Look OK so far?


----------



## Cleon (Sep 23, 2009)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> Look OK so far?




Seems good so far.

1d3-2 is pretty weedy claw damage, maybe up it to 1d4-2?

I'm also thinking we could add _ghost sound_ as an at-will so it can make spooky noises to its heart's content.


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## Shade (Sep 23, 2009)

Agreed to all that.

Damage reduction 5/cold iron?

Skills: 20
Bluff, Intimidate, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand?

Feats: 1


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## Cleon (Sep 23, 2009)

Shade said:


> Agreed to all that.
> 
> Damage reduction 5/cold iron?
> 
> ...




Yup, 5/cold iron is what I was thinking of for the DR.

I'd think we'd want Hide in their, and maybe some Spot and/or Listen. We could drop some Bluff and Sleight of Hand if we need the points.

We'll probably want some racial bonuses on Hide, Intimidate and MS as well. Say +4 on all three. Plus it would get an additional bonus to Hide (enhancement or circumstance?) when using its Aura of Darkness.

How shall we divide the points?

Bluff 2, Hide 5, Intimidate 5, Listen 2, Move Silently 2, Sleight of Hand 2, Spot 2

Throw in the suggested racial and ability bonuses and we get:

Skills: Bluff +5, Hide +12, Intimidate +12, Listen +3, Move Silently +9, Sleight of Hand +5, Spot +3

That looks alright to me.


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## Shade (Sep 23, 2009)

Does it really need Hide (or a Hide bonus) when it's already effectively invisible in any condition of illumination other than full daylight?

I'd take 3 of the Hide ranks and put 'em in Bluff (for the nice +2 synergy bonus to several of its other skills) and 2 in Sleight of Hand.

Other than that, I agree with the rest of your assessment.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 23, 2009)

Not invisible--just has total concealment. That allows it to Hide, but doesn't mean it's automatically hidden.

Also, I tried to post this yesterday and had some connection problems... but the difference between darkness and deeper darkness isn't the level of dark--it's that deeper darkness lasts one day per caster level. So giving it deeper darkness (self only) 2/day is seriously redundant.


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## Shade (Sep 23, 2009)

OK.  I still want 5 ranks in Bluff, though.  

Reduce to standard darkness, then?  Or make it a unique ability?


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## freyar (Sep 24, 2009)

Just make it standard darkness.  I'd be happy with that.  Maybe Stealthy for the feat, just to help it get around unnoticed a little more.


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## Cleon (Sep 24, 2009)

Shade said:


> OK.  I still want 5 ranks in Bluff, though.
> 
> Reduce to standard darkness, then?  Or make it a unique ability?




I'm fine with moving 3 Hide ranks into Bluff. We can increase its racial bonus in Hide to +8 to compensate.

That would make it: Bluff +8, Hide +13*, Intimidate +12, Listen +3, Move Silently +9, Sleight of Hand +5, Spot +.

How much additional Hide does its Aura of Darkness give it (if any). If we give it a +10 bonus (-> Hide +23) that would make it effectively invisible to a small kid with Spot +2 or so.


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## freyar (Sep 24, 2009)

Well, even assuming no bonus, it's going to be pretty hard for the kid to spot the bogeyman.  I think it'd be kind of cool for the kid to see the bogeyman hiding in the shadows but then not the parent.   We could go with an additional Hide bonus for shadow blend maybe.

Something weird about shadow blend, actually.  Darkness gives regular concealment, shadow blend gives total concealment, but doesn't shadow blend work even with shadowy illumination provided by the darkness SLA?


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## Shade (Sep 24, 2009)

freyar said:


> Something weird about shadow blend, actually.  Darkness gives regular concealment, shadow blend gives total concealment, but doesn't shadow blend work even with shadowy illumination provided by the darkness SLA?




Yep.  That's why I don't think it needs much Hide.  The only way anyone can strike it is with a ridiculously high Spot modifier (40+), blindsight, or the like.

I'd rather it suck at Hiding, else it could hide effectively in broad daylight behind a rock or something, negating its crazy fear of being caught out of darkness.


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## Cleon (Sep 25, 2009)

Shade said:


> Yep.  That's why I don't think it needs much Hide.  The only way anyone can strike it is with a ridiculously high Spot modifier (40+), blindsight, or the like.
> 
> I'd rather it suck at Hiding, else it could hide effectively in broad daylight behind a rock or something, negating its crazy fear of being caught out of darkness.




Sorry, I'm getting a bit confused here. Where does this this 40+ Spot come from? I thought we weren't giving it invisibility type Hide bonuses (+40/+20) with its darkness aura, but just concealment and an extra Hide bonus of, say, +10, which would give it a total Hide bonus somewhere in the 20s.

So, what Hide bonus are we having its Aura of Darkness give it?

We aren't having its Shadow Aura provide Total Concealment, since it wouldn't need Hide checks to avoid being Spotted in that case.


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## Shade (Sep 25, 2009)

I'm confused too!  

Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, a shadow mastiff can disappear into the shadows, giving it *total concealment*. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, will.

Total Concealment: If you have line of effect to a target but not line of sight he is considered to have total concealment from you. You can’t attack an opponent that has total concealment, though you can attack into a square that you think he occupies. A successful attack into a square occupied by an enemy with total concealment has a 50% miss chance (instead of the normal 20% miss chance for an opponent with concealment). You can’t execute an attack of opportunity against an opponent with total concealment, even if you know what square or squares the opponent occupies.

Ignoring Concealment: Concealment isn’t always effective. A shadowy area or darkness doesn’t provide any concealment against an opponent with darkvision. Characters with low-light vision can see clearly for a greater distance with the same light source than other characters. *Although invisibility provides total concealment, sighted opponents may still make Spot checks to notice the location of an invisible character. An invisible character gains a +20 bonus on Hide checks if moving, or a +40 bonus on Hide checks when not moving (even though opponents can’t see you, they might be able to figure out where you are from other visual clues).*

Edit:  From the Hide skill description:  "Total cover or total concealment usually (but not always; see Special, below) obviates the need for a Hide check, since nothing can see you anyway."  Special: If you are invisible, you gain a +40 bonus on Hide checks if you are immobile, or a +20 bonus on Hide checks if you’re moving.

I'm still confused as to why it needs Hide...doesn't it want kids to know it's there, just not be able to pinpoint it?


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## freyar (Sep 26, 2009)

Yes, very confusing after all.  I guess it depends on how you read total concealment, though the Hide skill description there seems pretty clear.  Let's not give it Hide, then.  Kids will have to figure it's there by it's spooky actions and sounds.


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## Cleon (Sep 26, 2009)

Oh right, I was thinking its shadow aura just gave it concealment plus a Hide bonus, such as was originally mooted, not the full deal of a Shadow Mastiff.

I agree it doesn't need a big Hide bonus if it gets total concealment from its Aura of Darkness.



Shade said:


> I'm confused too!
> 
> Shadow Blend (Su): In any condition of illumination other than full daylight, a shadow mastiff can disappear into the shadows, giving it *total concealment*. Artificial illumination, even a light or continual flame spell, does not negate this ability. A daylight spell, however, will.
> 
> ...


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## Shade (Sep 28, 2009)

Ahh...I see where the disconnect occurred now.  I never thought we'd give it a weaker shadow blend than the shadow mastiff, but apparently I was alone.  

Updated.

Environment: Any urban or underground?

Challenge Rating: 1?

Advancement: 3-6 HD (Small)?

Level Adjustment: +3?

A bogeyman is 3 feet tall and weighs x pounds. 

Bogeymen speak x.


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## freyar (Sep 28, 2009)

No, I just missed the part about total concealment in the Hide rules.  Very confusing.

I'd say your suggestions are spot on.  Let's go with 40 lb (is that about right for a 3 ft person?) and Common or Sylvan (your call).


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## Shade (Sep 28, 2009)

freyar said:


> I'd say your suggestions are spot on.  Let's go with 40 lb (is that about right for a 3 ft person?) and Common or Sylvan (your call).




How about both, so it can taunt children in a language they'll understand, then brag about it to the other fey.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 28, 2009)

Agreed to both languages.


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## freyar (Sep 29, 2009)

Shade said:


> How about both, so it can taunt children in a language they'll understand, then brag about it to the other fey.



Excellent reasoning!


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## Shade (Sep 29, 2009)

> The bogeyman does not confine its choice of victims to children. Lone travelers journeying through deserted woodlands or desolate moors, or a solitary person walking along a dark city street, may also find themselves victimized by this creature.




It looks like I need to expand its environment to include forests and marshes.

Updated.


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## Cleon (Sep 29, 2009)

freyar said:


> No, I just missed the part about total concealment in the Hide rules.  Very confusing.
> 
> I'd say your suggestions are spot on.  Let's go with 40 lb (is that about right for a 3 ft person?) and Common or Sylvan (your call).




I'd have gone for around 20-25 pounds.

40 pounds is heavier than an average halfling (female halfling = 3'1" and 30 pounds, male halfling = 3'3" and 35 pounds) who I'm guessing are stockier than a bogey, as well as being taller.

I agree with Common and Sylvan, together with Shade's reasoning.


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## Shade (Oct 1, 2009)

25 pounds sounds good.

Updated.

All done?


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## freyar (Oct 2, 2009)

Looks like it!


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## Cleon (Oct 2, 2009)

Shade said:


> 25 pounds sounds good.
> 
> Updated.
> 
> All done?




Yup, he looks ready to sneak out into the darkness and terrify humanity as far as stat completeness goes.

The Treasure Type: None does look a little odd, even though it matches the original monster. I'd have thought it might steal a few valuables from those it torments just out of spite.

Maybe we should give it No coins; 50% goods; 50% items like a Sprite?


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## Shade (Oct 2, 2009)

That works for me.  I've added it.

Next!

*Kruel*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate/Forests, hills, rural
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Group
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Very
TREASURE: W x 1/2
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil (neutral)
NO. APPEARING: 2-5
ARMOR CLASS: 4
MOVEMENT: 15
HIT DICE: 1+8
THAC0: 19
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK:  ld4 +4/1d4 (see text)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Missiles, set fires
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Resist fire, evade blows, minor spells
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 10%
SIZE: M (5’ tall)
MORALE: Steady (11)
XP VALUE: 270

These creatures were once good sylvan folk, but some great evil blighted their race and gained them their new name. They reportedly still have dealings with pixies and some wood elves, and it is known that they do not wantonly destroy woodlands with their powers, so perhaps some traces of their original nature remain. Even so, kruels are now undoubtedly evil and spiteful monsters in most respects, and they cause much suffering in rural communities. They speak Common and a smattering of woodland tongues.

Kruels appear as sharp-featured elves from the waist up, with long bony fingers, large cowlike ears, and eyes that are (except for the pupil) startlingly blood-red. Their legs are birdlike and green scaled. They prefer bright green, lilac, and scarlet garb, also wearing tall hats, each set off with a red feather. 

Combat: Kruels fight only the apparently weak, preferring to harass more powerful opponents from a distance. Any pebble they hurl becomes magically empowered for that round, burning like a red-hot coal. They can throw two pebbles a round at +2 to hit, at a range of 40 yards (no range penalties apply). The stones cause 1-4 hp damage if they hit. The stones will ignite combustibles (item saving throws vs. normal fire are required) but cease burning themselves after one round.

Kruels can use the spell flame blade at will, and they enter melee with this spell and a dagger, striking once per round with each with no penalty. They are quick, agile, and unpredictable in combat; if they win initiative, they have a 30% chance that round to evade each blow struck at them that would have otherwise hit, regardless of the attacker’s roll.

Kruels can cast both cantrip and alter self twice per day at the 1st level of magic use, but since their eyes retain their distinctive coloration in any form, the latter power is commonly used for escape (flying or swimming) rather than disguise. They naturally resist fire as the spell, and they are intelligent enough to take advantage of this in combat if the situation permits.

Habitat/Society: Kruels usually dwell on the fringes of civilization, where they prey on farmers and their cattle, occasionally firing a hayrick or barn. Kruels would never destroy a whole year’s crops or burn down an entire village--the fun would be over much too quickly. They often use their magical abilities to frighten or attack passing travelers, especially the seemingly helpless. A captive is sometimes taken for torture; victims are not always killed, but few recover completely from the experience. 

Kruels roam far from their lairs in search of an evening’s entertainment.. Like most faerie-kin, they are unpredictable and may consistently raid a distant farm, ignoring one close at hand.

Their preferred lairs are woodland caves, always difficult to find, where they keep their treasure in individual caches. They live in small groups that split up or change members with other groups of kruels on a random basis. Mating is infrequent and results in a clutch of eggs that take a few weeks (and a fair amount of heat) to hatch, whereupon the young kruels grow to adulthood within a year or two. There is a 20% chance that a group will have a pyrolisk as a pet, as they get along well with such creatures. This and their form may indicate some distant kinship between the two species.

Ecology: Kruels prey on others. They steal produce and livestock from farms and goods from travelers when they can, otherwise hunting small animals and gathering nuts and berries in the forest. It is thought they trade with unscrupulous creatures for the things they cannot plunder. They enjoy finery but produce nothing of worth themselves.

Farmers and villagers in regions frequented by these creatures would be overjoyed if adventurers sought out and slew kruels for body parts that were vital components in some spell or potion, but so far no use has been found for them.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #187 (1992).


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## Shade (Oct 2, 2009)

Upsizing a pixie to Medium yields...

Str 11, Dex 16, Con 13, Int 16, Wis 15, Cha 16

Int is very (11-12).

AC translates to 16.  Since I doubt they have much natural armor (if any), and are listed as quite agile, I'd propose increasing Dex to 18 or even as far as 22.


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 3, 2009)

Let's give them +1 natural armor. They've got scaly bird-legs; that has to be worth something.

I like these guys... hate the name, though.

The throw two rocks at once would indicate Rapid Shot and Quick Draw as (possibly bonus) feats. The flaming rocks--a unique Sq, or a unique SLA, like a more powerful magic stone?


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## Cleon (Oct 3, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Let's give them +1 natural armor. They've got scaly bird-legs; that has to be worth something.




Hmm, that would mean they need Dex 20 to get AC16. The original stat's +2 to hit with missiles suggests a lower Dex than that.

Shall we split the difference between an upsized sprite's 16 Dex and Dex 20 to get Dexterity 18 and +2 natural armour?



demiurge1138 said:


> I like these guys... hate the name, though.




Yes, perhaps we should offer an alternative name as well. How about just using a word for "cruel" from another language? According to a pocket Irish dictionary I've got, "Danartha" means "cruel; barbarous; unsociable" - that seems to pretty well cover these charmers, and "Danartha" has a nice Fey ring to it.


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## Cleon (Oct 3, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> The throw two rocks at once would indicate Rapid Shot and Quick Draw as (possibly bonus) feats. The flaming rocks--a unique Sq, or a unique SLA, like a more powerful magic stone?




It reads like a cross between flame arrow and magic stone. I'd think the following Supernatural Power would cover it, but we could easily make it a SLA.
Flaming Pebbles (Su): A kruel can can cause any pebble it throws to burst into magical flame, each thrown pebble has a range increment of 20 feet bursts and does 1d6 fire damage. A flaming pebble can easily ignite a flammable object or structure, but it won’t ignite a creature it strikes.​The flame blade can just be an at-will use of the 2nd level druid spell.

The "naturally resist fire as the spell" can just be fire resistance 10.

_Alter self_ is the basically the same in both AD&D and 3E, so we need only add a flavour-note about the eye colouration.

The cantrip SLA is trickier, since 2nd edition did away with individual cantrip spells. I guess we could give them a list of cantrips they can choose from (_arcane mark, dancing lights, daze, detect magic, detect poison, flare, ghost sound, mage hand, message, open/close_ and _prestidigitation_ all seem suitable for mischief-making)


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## Cleon (Oct 3, 2009)

Okay, now for a couple of trickier issues.

The original's 1+8 hit dice suggests they either have an amazingly high Constitution, or extra hit points from somewhere. We could give them Toughness as a bonus feat.

The dual-wielding a _flame blade_ and dagger suggests the Two-Weapon Fighting feat.

I'd also suggest they have Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, like a sprite, so they get a decent attack bonus. (+0 for 1 hit dice, -2/-2 for light weapons with TWF, +4 for Dex => +2 melee attack)

Hmm, that way they have a ranged attack with their pebbles 2 higher than their melee attack, just like the AD&D version.

That leaves us with "They are quick, agile, and unpredictable in combat; if they win initiative, they have a 30% chance that round to evade each blow struck at them that would have otherwise hit, regardless of the attacker’s roll."

We could homebrew an Extraordinary special quality for this, but I think I'd rather just give them a rogue's Improved Uncanny Dodge. If I'm feeling mean I might add Evasion, but they've already got spell resistance and high Reflex saves, so I could just as happily leave it out.


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## freyar (Oct 4, 2009)

I wouldn't go any higher than +2 natural, though.

The flaming pebbles look ok, but you've upped the damage, and I don't think the original was a burst.  I'd rather they just acted as a ranged (touch?) attack that does fire damage and can light a combustible on a failed Ref save.

Imp Uncanny Dodge sounds fine.  

For feats, I'm thinking Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Weapon Finesse as bonus and TWF as regular?

Danartha works for me.


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 4, 2009)

I was thinking of them as doing real damage and 1d6 fire damage on top of that. Ranged attacks, definitely no burst. Improved uncanny dodge is a good idea, and I'm fine with boosting their natural armor and lowering their Dex a bit.


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## Cleon (Oct 4, 2009)

freyar said:


> I wouldn't go any higher than +2 natural, though.
> 
> The flaming pebbles look ok, but you've upped the damage, and I don't think the original was a burst.  I'd rather they just acted as a ranged (touch?) attack that does fire damage and can light a combustible on a failed Ref save.




That 'burst' was just a typo, it was meant to be just "as a range increment of 20 feet and ". I did some copy-and-pasting from the SRD and it must have slipped in somehow. Should be:*Flaming Pebbles (Su):* A kruel can can cause any pebble it throws to burst into magical flame, each thrown pebble has a range increment of 20 feet and does 1d6 fire damage. A flaming pebble can easily ignite a flammable object or structure, but it won’t ignite a creature it strikes.​


freyar said:


> Imp Uncanny Dodge sounds fine.
> 
> For feats, I'm thinking Quick Draw, Rapid Shot, Weapon Finesse as bonus and TWF as regular?
> 
> Danartha works for me.




Yes, those were the feat & bonus feats I was thinking of too.


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## Shade (Oct 5, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

I kept the original name as the primary identifier, because it's kewl.     (Actually, so anyone who actually seeks out the conversion can find it easier).

As far as "cantrip" goes, let's just pick a handful of "hard coded" (not "choose from a list") 0-level spells.  Of those Cleon listed, I favor dancing lights, flare, ghost sound, mage hand, and prestidigitation.

Skills: 7 at 4 ranks
Bluff, Disguise, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, Tumble?  Perhaps split Listen ranks with Spot?


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## Cleon (Oct 5, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> I was thinking of them as doing real damage and 1d6 fire damage on top of that. Ranged attacks, definitely no burst. Improved uncanny dodge is a good idea, and I'm fine with boosting their natural armor and lowering their Dex a bit.




I don't care for that. Firstly, the original does more damage in melee (1d8/1d4) than with their pebbles (1d4/1d4), and we've now got it doing more at range (1d4+1d6/1d4+1d6 fire) than melee (1d8 fire/1d4) and I'd like to cleave closer to that.

How I was imagining it was the Kruel isn't hurling fist-sized rocks like a normal thrown stone, but is just tossing tiny pebbles no larger than a small acorn, so they're too light for the impact to do any damage in D&D terms, it's the magical fire they're infused with that does the harm.

Indeed, I'd considered dropping the fire damage to 1d4, but eventually left in the 1d6 of the _flame arrow_ spell. It's probably equivalent to a lower-level spell than the 3rd level _flame arrow_.

Oh, and should either blade or pebbles get a bonus to attack or damage for higher Hit Dice Danartha? The _flame blade_ spell does +1 damage per 2 casting levels (max +10), and the _magic stone_ spell has a flat +1 enhancement to attack and damage.

Maybe say both pebbles & blade get +1 damage per 2 Hit Dice the Danartha has?


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## Cleon (Oct 5, 2009)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews.
> 
> I kept the original name as the primary identifier, because it's kewl.     (Actually, so anyone who actually seeks out the conversion can find it easier).




The names are OK by me. I was thinking Danartha would be an exotic alternative to their "common name", kind of like how Mind Flayer / Illithid works.

Oh, and Damage Resistance 10 seems too high for their probable CR, I'd think 5/cold iron would be enough.



Shade said:


> As far as "cantrip" goes, let's just pick a handful of "hard coded" (not "choose from a list") 0-level spells. Of those Cleon listed, I favor dancing lights, flare, ghost sound, mage hand, and prestidigitation.




Yup, those are probably the ones I'd pick if I had to choose only five. Are we having them at-will or x/day? If they can flame blade and fire pebble at will, I'm tempted to have them have their cantrips at-will too.



Shade said:


> Skills: 7 at 4 ranks
> Bluff, Disguise, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Sleight of Hand, Tumble?  Perhaps split Listen ranks with Spot?




I'd probably split Disguise and Sleight of Hand rather than Listen and Spot. I feel they'd rely on their _alter self_ and _mage hand_ abilities as much as skill.

So, I'm thinking of dividing the skill points something like this:
Bluff 4, Disguise 2, Hide 4, Listen 4, Move Silently 4, Sleight of Hand 2, Spot 4, Tumble 4.​  Anyone have any preferences for what (if any) racial bonuses to skills it should have? Sprites get +2 on Listen, Search and Spot, which seems about right.

Hmm, if we give them a racial bonus to Listen & Spot we could cut a skill point off each and put them in Disguise and Sleight and still come out ahead:
Bluff 4, Disguise 3, Hide 4, Listen 3, Move Silently 4, Sleight of Hand 3, Spot 3, Tumble 4.​ Yes, I quite like that. Not sure what to do about Search, we could shift a couple of skill points in it, leave it at a default (if it gets +2 racial that's still a decent +4 bonus with its 15 Wisdom), or have it get a racial bonus in a different skill. Any of the skills above would do, but I'm tempted by Bluff or Sleight, since these strike me as creatures to which lying and stealing come naturally.


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## Shade (Oct 5, 2009)

Cleon said:


> I don't care for that. Firstly, the original does more damage in melee (1d8/1d4) than with their pebbles (1d4/1d4), and we've now got it doing more at range (1d4+1d6/1d4+1d6 fire) than melee (1d8 fire/1d4) and I'd like to cleave closer to that.
> 
> How I was imagining it was the Kruel isn't hurling fist-sized rocks like a normal thrown stone, but is just tossing tiny pebbles no larger than a small acorn, so they're too light for the impact to do any damage in D&D terms, it's the magical fire they're infused with that does the harm.
> 
> ...




I imagine it more like a slingstone (1d4) plus some amount of fire damage.   These things are cruel after all...I'd imagine they'd hurl rocks with as much force as they can.

Although the damage might be higher at range, it's harder for them to hit due to the flame blade being a touch attack, and the potential for a range increment.   They also lack Precise Shot, so will suffer a penalty against a foe in melee.

We can simply note that caster level equals Hit Dice to handle the scaling flame blade.  I'm not sure that the pebbles need to improve (since it can throw a bunch as its BAB improves), but might be conviced otherwise.



Cleon said:


> Oh, and Damage Resistance 10 seems too high for their probable CR, I'd think 5/cold iron would be enough.




I borrowed that from the pixie upon which they are based, but I'm fine with reducing it to 5.



Cleon said:


> Yup, those are probably the ones I'd pick if I had to choose only five. Are we having them at-will or x/day? If they can flame blade and fire pebble at will, I'm tempted to have them have their cantrips at-will too.




I believe the original text said 2/day, which would probably suffice if we give it that many SLAs.



Cleon said:


> Hmm, if we give them a racial bonus to Listen & Spot we could cut a skill point off each and put them in Disguise and Sleight and still come out ahead:
> Bluff 4, Disguise 3, Hide 4, Listen 3, Move Silently 4, Sleight of Hand 3, Spot 3, Tumble 4.​ Yes, I quite like that. Not sure what to do about Search, we could shift a couple of skill points in it, leave it at a default (if it gets +2 racial that's still a decent +4 bonus with its 15 Wisdom), or have it get a racial bonus in a different skill. Any of the skills above would do, but I'm tempted by Bluff or Sleight, since these strike me as creatures to which lying and stealing come naturally.




Yeah, I like that too.  

Lets not bother with ranks in Search.   I'm sure farmland isn't too tough to find.


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 6, 2009)

Agreed to dropping DR to 5 and Search from the skills list. I like them better as more ranged capacity than melee and agree with Shade on his rationale.


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## freyar (Oct 6, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Agreed to dropping DR to 5 and Search from the skills list. I like them better as more ranged capacity than melee and agree with Shade on his rationale.



I'm fine with that also.


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## Shade (Oct 6, 2009)

Updated.

Environment: Temperate forests, hills, and plains?

Organization: Solitary or gang (2–5)?

Challenge Rating: 2?  They're deadlier than nixies.

Treasure: No coins; 50% goods; 50% items? (Like pixies)

Alignment: Always chaotic, never good?

Advancement: 2–3 HD (Medium)?

Level Adjustment: +3 (like most sprites)?


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## Cleon (Oct 6, 2009)

Shade said:


> I imagine it more like a slingstone (1d4) plus some amount of fire damage.   These things are cruel after all...I'd imagine they'd hurl rocks with as much force as they can.




Well I don't mind keeping the 1d4 thrown stone damage if you insist, but could we cut the fire damage to 1d4?



Shade said:


> I believe the original text said 2/day, which would probably suffice if we give it that many SLAs.




I'm fine with making it 2/day for each of the five cantrips.

As for the skills, I'm wondering whether we could add "A Kruel can use either its Dexterity or its Strength bonus on Jump checks." in its Skill description to give them Jump +8 (including the +4 for its Speed of 40 ft.). I imagine these creatures as pretty agile leapers.

Oh, and does no-one else fancy the idea of giving them +2 racial on Bluff and/or Sleight of Hand, 'cause they're lying little tea-leaves?


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## Shade (Oct 6, 2009)

I like Dex for Jump and the additional racial bonuses.

I'm not opposed to lowering the fire damage.  Anyone else?


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm not opposed to reducing the fire damage to 1d4 either. I like the racial skill bonuses suggested.


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## Shade (Oct 6, 2009)

Updated.

Environment: Temperate forests, hills, and plains?

Organization: Solitary or gang (2–5)?

Challenge Rating: 2?  They're deadlier than nixies.

Treasure: No coins; 50% goods; 50% items? (Like pixies)

Alignment: Always chaotic, never good?

Advancement: 2–3 HD (Medium)?

Level Adjustment: +3 (like most sprites)?


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 6, 2009)

That all sounds pretty good, except don't sprites generally advance by character class?


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## Shade (Oct 6, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> That all sounds pretty good, except don't sprites generally advance by character class?




Suprisingly, no.

Sprite :: d20srd.org


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 6, 2009)

That is surprising, especially considering that there's a "pixies as characters" paragraph. Let's put them down for both HD advancement and by character class. Favored class rogue?


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## Cleon (Oct 7, 2009)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> Environment: Temperate forests, hills, and plains?
> 
> ...




That all looks good to me.

I notice you cut the "can" from "A Kruel can use either its Dexterity or its Strength bonus on Jump checks." I'd rather leave it in, for the few Arnie-like Danartha who have a higher bonus from Strength than Dexterity.



demiurge1138 said:


> That is surprising, especially considering that there's a "pixies as characters" paragraph. Let's put them down for both HD advancement and by character class. Favored class rogue?




Are we going to do a "Kruel as characters" writeup then?

I agree that rogue makes most sense for the favoured class.


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## freyar (Oct 8, 2009)

Well, I'm a bit behind, but I'd say that it all looks good.


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## Shade (Oct 8, 2009)

Cleon said:


> I notice you cut the "can" from "A Kruel can use either its Dexterity or its Strength bonus on Jump checks." I'd rather leave it in, for the few Arnie-like Danartha who have a higher bonus from Strength than Dexterity.




Sure, I'll put the "can" back.



Cleon said:


> Are we going to do a "Kruel as characters" writeup then?




It's probably unnecessary, as they are evil and have a pretty focused mindset (harass rural communities) not really suitable for adventuring.



Cleon said:


> I agree that rogue makes most sense for the favoured class.




Ditto here.

Updated.

A danartha stands 5 feet tall and weighs x pounds.


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 9, 2009)

About the average weight of an elf, methinks. So... 100 pounds? 120?


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## Shade (Oct 9, 2009)

Sounds good.  Updated.

It seems we're finished.

Next!

*Phouka*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: varies
MOVEMENT: varies
HIT DICE: varies
THAC0: varies
NO. OF ATTACKS: varies
DAMAGE/ATTACK: varies
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: varies
MORALE: Unsteady (5-7)
XP VALUE: varies

The phouka is a very strange creature. It seems to have no natural form of its own but can take any shape it pleases at will. It delights in playing tricks on humans, changing into appealing shapes like gold rings and waiting to be picked up. Once picked up, it may abruptly change into a huge rock, a mule, or anything else.

It is also fond of changing into a fine horse and waiting for someone to mount it. It then takes off at breakneck speed, carrying its unfortunate rider over precipitous mountain passes, through gorse and briar hedges, and into all sorts of perilous and frightening situations, before finally depositing the rider in a hedge, pool, or dungheap and cantering off, whinnying with laughter. The rider will suffer no injury except to his pride on these wild rides, as long as he can stay on his wild mount.

The phouka seems to be motivated by its sense of humor rather than any desire to do harm or cause trouble--it loves mischief but does not intentionally cause injury.

Combat: Phoukas avoid combat whenever they can, either by turning into something very fast and fleeing or by turning into something very small and hiding. If cornered, a phouka might turn into a huge and frightening monster like a dragon but will always try to flee at the first opportunity. A phouka has all the physical abilities of any creature it turns into but retains its own intelligence and does not have spellcasting abilities or magical protections in any form.

Habitat/Society: Phoukas mainly haunt wild areas but never stray too far from human settlements. They particularly like waiting for victims by the roadside. It is not known how (or whether) phoukas reproduce--various claims have been made but no one has been able to prove that they were observing phoukas and not some other species.

Ecology: Phoukas seem to be omnivores. They often turn into goats in order to eat, apparently because goats can eat almost anything. They scavenge and steal rather than hunt.

Originally appeared in HR3 - Celts Campaign Sourcebook (1992).


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 9, 2009)

OK... no natural form? This will be difficult. Perhaps impossible. Many phookas and phooka-analogs have been done in 3rd party products. The one that leaps most readily to mind was in Tome of Horrors 3... wasn't the best, if I remember correctly.


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## Shade (Oct 9, 2009)

Brainstorming...

We could essentially make a fey version of the phasm.

Perhaps we can make the horse form listed in Wikipedia as its "true" form?  

Or maybe the last form it assumed is considered its "true" form for purposes of effects like true seeing?


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## GrayLinnorm (Oct 9, 2009)

Its true form should be a five foot tall rabbit.


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## Cleon (Oct 10, 2009)

GrayLinnorm said:


> Its true form should be a five foot tall rabbit.




No, no no.

It should be a 6' 3  ½" inch rabbit (not including ears).

I was thinking of taking the "Fey Phasm" approach too.

So, take a Phasm, change its type to Fey and remove tremorsense?

Add a few spell-like abilities (A few illusions like _minor image* _and _invisibility?_)

The rest of a Phasm's stats (skills, feats and such) look about right, it's just its behaviour that is different.

*So it can do the "why are you reading this, Mr X?" trick.


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## freyar (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, we should probably tweak the phasm a little, but I'm generally agreed with all this.


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## Shade (Oct 12, 2009)

Added to Homebrews, using the phasm as a basis.


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## Cleon (Oct 13, 2009)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews, using the phasm as a basis.




I know the version we're converting only had average intelligence, but there's something to be said for a Phasm's Int 16. At the very least, I suspect it will need a lot of skill points (or really impressive racial bonuses) to be able to do everything I think it needs - at the very least it needs impressive scores in Bluff, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently and Spot. There's no mention of them speaking, but there's nothing in the entry to indicate they can't masquerade as humanoids to play their tricks. To do that effectively they could do with the Diplomacy, Search and Sense Motive skills as well.

Oh, and the classic movie version had improved invisibility at-will and some kind of illusion power. Should we mention that as a sub-variety?


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## Shade (Oct 13, 2009)

The phasm, being an aberration, got only 2 skill ranks before Int, while the phouka, as a fey, gets 6.  So that should help offset the problem.  Still, racial bonuses are definitely not out of the question.

Is the "classic movie version" _Harvey_?  I've never seen it, but noted it listed in the Wikipedia writeup.   That would be fine for a variant.


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## Cleon (Oct 14, 2009)

Shade said:


> The phasm, being an aberration, got only 2 skill ranks before Int, while the phouka, as a fey, gets 6.  So that should help offset the problem.  Still, racial bonuses are definitely not out of the question.
> 
> Is the "classic movie version" _Harvey_?  I've never seen it, but noted it listed in the Wikipedia writeup.   That would be fine for a variant.




Yes it was a _Harvey_ reference. Good movie, well worth seeing.

So, shall we have a "standard" Phooka that isn't skilled at social deception, so usually pretends to be an animal or piece of treasure, and a "Harvey" Phooka (name to be decided).

If we give the standard version Bluff, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently and Spot that makes 7 skills, so 6 skill dice per level should give us enough, maybe with a few racial boni.

The _Harvey_ version can have Int 16, some SLAs and Diplomacy, Search and Sense Motive. It may have higher Wis and Charisma as well.

EDIT: So, 108 skill points between Bluff, Disguise, Hide, Intimidate, Listen, Move Silently and Spot.

Max out Bluff, Disguise and Intimidate, cut a few points from the rest?

Bluff *18*, Disguise *18*, Hide *13*, Intimidate *18*, Listen *14*, Move Silently *13*,  Spot *14

EDITED EDIT:* Oh yes, the current version's saves are screwy - as a Fey, they should be Fort +7, Ref +11, Will +11


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## Shade (Oct 14, 2009)

Updated.

Other suggested SLAs for both varieties?


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## freyar (Oct 15, 2009)

Uhh, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I don't recall much evidence for Harvey being _that_ smart.  You really think he's Int 16?


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## Cleon (Oct 16, 2009)

freyar said:


> Uhh, it's been a while since I've seen the movie, but I don't recall much evidence for Harvey being _that_ smart.  You really think he's Int 16?




Well, personally I think that we way he manipulated everyone in the film for his own amusement while simultaneously getting Elwood out of the sanatorium shows he's pretty clever. That, and he's a fascinating and witty conversationalist.

Although the main reason I went for Int 16 was so we could max out the three additional skills without having to cut any ranks from a regular phooka's  skills.

Oh, and in the film they used the variant spelling "Pooka", which I like better. Maybe we could use that for the social version?


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## Cleon (Oct 16, 2009)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> Other suggested SLAs for both varieties?




Hmm, well the folklore version could perform various illusionary tricks that _minor image_ and _ghost sounds_ would cover perfectly adequately.

They could run with great speed in pony form, so maybe _expeditious retreat_ as an at-will?

If I remember correctly, according to some tales they would "stick" their riders to their backs so they couldn't jump off mid-gallop, releasing them after they jump into a muddy ditch or lake. That'd be a supernatural glue-like special attack rather than a spell like ability, though. We could use the Adhesive SA of a Mimic as a template if we decide to add it.

Oh, and I would like some mention of them using their Intimidation skill to frighten off opponents in their tactics entry.


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## freyar (Oct 16, 2009)

I think we should cut ranks.  I'd be more likely to go with a boost to Wis or Cha based on that,  I think.  Maybe a slight boost to Int.  Int 16 is quite smart.

The suggested SLAs sound good.  I wonder if the adhesive bit is getting a little too fiddly or not.  It definitely has potential, though.


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 17, 2009)

The sticking runs pretty close to the schtick of the kelpies, so I'd rather ignore that.


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## Cleon (Oct 17, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> The sticking runs pretty close to the schtick of the kelpies, so I'd rather ignore that.




I'll go along with that.

Some versions of the pooka do seem to be mixed up with kelpies - I guess it's the old trick pony ride that does it - so we may as well try to keep them separate.


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## Shade (Oct 20, 2009)

So we're adding minor image, ghost sound, and expeditious retreat as at-will SLAs?

What Int are we targeting for the greater version, then?


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## freyar (Oct 20, 2009)

Those SLAs sound fine.

I'd like to stick to Int 12 or 13 with a slight boost also to Wis and Cha rather than Int 16.  That's just way too smart, I think.


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## Cleon (Oct 21, 2009)

Shade said:


> So we're adding minor image, ghost sound, and expeditious retreat as at-will SLAs?
> 
> What Int are we targeting for the greater version, then?




That should be enough, and I favour Int 16.


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## Shade (Oct 21, 2009)

Split the difference at Int 14 and a slight boost to the other mental stats?


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## freyar (Oct 21, 2009)

Sounds fair to me.


----------



## demiurge1138 (Oct 22, 2009)

Me too.


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## Shade (Oct 22, 2009)

Updated.

"Slight boost" equals +2 for Wis and Cha?

We'll need to revise skills for the "social" version.

Uses per day of invisibility?

I forgot to address this earlier.



			
				Cleon said:
			
		

> Oh, and in the film they used the variant spelling "Pooka", which I like better. Maybe we could use that for the social version?




We might want to avoid that, as there are already other D&D creatures with that name/spelling.  Ahh, the joys of multiple results of the same real-world  inspiration.


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## freyar (Oct 24, 2009)

There's still a phasm in the alternate form.

+2 Wis/Cha is fine.

3/day invisibility.

Yes, let's leave the spelling.


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## Cleon (Oct 24, 2009)

Shade said:


> Split the difference at Int 14 and a slight boost to the other mental stats?






Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> "Slight boost" equals +2 for Wis and Cha?




I can live with that. Int 14, Wis 17 and Cha 16 is none too shabby.



Shade said:


> We'll need to revise skills for the "social" version.




I guess the simplest thing to do is give them 12 ranks in each of the 3 new skills, and adjust them all to reflect its higher mental stats.

That would give it the following skill ranks: Bluff *18*, Diplomacy *12*, Disguise *18*, Hide *13*, Intimidate *18*, Listen *14*, Move Silently *13*,  Search *12*, Sense Motive *12*, Spot *14*.

Which works out as:

*Skills:* Bluff +21, Diplomacy +19, Disguise +21 (+23 acting), Hide +15, Intimidate +23, Listen +17, Move Silently +15, Search +15, Sense Motive +15, Spot +17



Shade said:


> Uses per day of invisibility?
> 
> I forgot to address this earlier.




I thought we were going for at-will?


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## freyar (Oct 25, 2009)

Cleon's suggestions are fine, and at will invisibility is ok, too (for the regular one, I think we mean, since the social one already has greater invisibility).


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## Shade (Oct 27, 2009)

Updated.

It looks like we still need its 6 feats.


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## Cleon (Oct 28, 2009)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> It looks like we still need its 6 feats.




So it does. The Phasm we were basing it on has Alertness, Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative and Mobility.

Alertness, Combat Reflexes and Improved Initiative look good picks, although I'd rather give it Stealthy instead of Alertness.

I don't think Blind-Fight fits, so I fancy replacing it with Quicken Spell-Like Ability (invisibility), since Pooka are infamous for disappearing in a twinkling of an eye.

Dodge and Mobility are thematically appropriate, since Pooka's are notoriously evasive, but they've got a fairly mediocre base AC for their HD so an additional few points of Dodge bonus may not be that much use. Maybe give them Great Fortitude and Lightning Reflexes instead? So, that means I'm suggesting one of the following:

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Mobility, Stealthy, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (invisibility)

or

Feats: Combat Reflexes, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Stealthy, Quicken Spell-Like Ability (invisibility)

I think I like the second selection better.
[FONT=&quot][/FONT]


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## Shade (Oct 28, 2009)

I too prefer the latter.

Updated.

Damage reduction 10/cold iron?

Challenge Rating: 8?  The DR and SLAs are worth at least a point over the phasm, eh?  1 higher than that for the social version?

Advancement: x.  Phasm has 15–21 HD (Huge); 22–45 HD (Gargantuan), but I don't really feel really big phoukas make sense.  Maybe 15-30 HD (Large)?


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## freyar (Oct 29, 2009)

That all sounds fair to me.


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## Shade (Oct 29, 2009)

Updated.

Other than deciding upon a name for the "social" phouka, I believe we're done here.


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## Cleon (Oct 30, 2009)

Shade said:


> I too prefer the latter.
> 
> Updated.
> 
> ...




J'accord. That looks reasonable to me.



Shade said:


> Other than deciding upon a name for the "social" phouka, I believe we're done here.




What, they're not all called Harvey?

Consulting my pocket Irish dictionary, how about "Lach Púca" (Lach = "affable, friendly", Púca = "pooka"), giving us the "Friendly Pooka"?


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## Shade (Oct 30, 2009)

Sounds good!

Updated.   Finished?


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## Cleon (Oct 31, 2009)

Shade said:


> Sounds good!
> 
> Updated.   Finished?




As written, a Lach Puca shouldn't be able to have Quicken Spell-Like Ability (greater invisibility), as it's a 4th level spell so the feat requires a caster level of at least 16th. We could either substitute it for a different spell or feat or tweak its caster level or Hit Dice up a bit.

My preferred solution is a slightly higher caster level (Hit Dice plus 1?).


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## freyar (Oct 31, 2009)

Hrmph.  Maybe just go 20th level on the CL.

There's still a social phouka hanging out with the friendly phoukas.


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## Cleon (Nov 1, 2009)

freyar said:


> Hrmph.  Maybe just go 20th level on the CL.
> 
> There's still a social phouka hanging out with the friendly phoukas.




That would be my back-up solution.

Caster level 20 or HD, whichever is higher?


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## freyar (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm not sure there's any need to go above CL 20, is there?  That's pretty unusual for a stat block (even among angels and fiends of more than 20 HD), though you could argue that some of the advancement rules kind of imply that.


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## Cleon (Nov 2, 2009)

freyar said:


> I'm not sure there's any need to go above CL 20, is there?  That's pretty unusual for a stat block (even among angels and fiends of more than 20 HD), though you could argue that some of the advancement rules kind of imply that.




Well we don't need caster level 20, just 16+. Shall we split the difference and give them a flat CL18?


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## Shade (Nov 2, 2009)

Cleon said:


> Well we don't need caster level 20, just 16+. Shall we split the difference and give them a flat CL18?




That works for me.  Updated.

Finished?


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## freyar (Nov 2, 2009)

I think they're good to go.


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## Cleon (Nov 3, 2009)

Shade said:


> That works for me.  Updated.
> 
> Finished?




Yup.


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## Shade (Nov 10, 2009)

*Leshy*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any large forest
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
DIET : Herbivore
INTELLIGENCE: Genius (17-18)
TREASURE: M (x10)
ALIGNMENT: Neutral Good
NO.APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE : 8
THAC0: 12
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: By weapon + possible Str bonus
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Spells
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 40%
SIZE: Varies
MORALE: Champion (15)
XP VALUE: 2,000

Leshies are magical protectors of old and ancient forests. There is always only one leshy per forest, and they can never go more than 100’ from their domain, as they are tied to it as a dryad is bound to her tree.

Leshies look comical, appearing as young elflike men in green and red clothes. Their coats are always buttoned wrong, and their shoes are always on the wrong feet.

A leshy’s size depends on where he is in his forest. At the forest edge, he is tiny, merely 1’ tall. In the forests center, he is as tall as a hill giant and has the Strength to match. In between, his size varies; the closer to the center, the bigger he is.

Combat: A leshy can blend in with his surroundings by standing perfectly still, effectively invisible. A druid or ranger has a 5% chance per level of spotting a leshy. It is impossible to surprise one. 

Leshies do not normally carry weapons. They may, at their largest size, use tree trunks as clubs, inflicting double club damage plus the Strength bonus (2d6 + 7 hp damage). They may also, at this size, hurl rocks up to 200 yards for 2d8 hp damage,  as a hill giant. They rarely use this attack, however, as they consider it barbaric. 

Leshies have the spellcasting ability of a 12th-level druid. They prefer spells dealing with plants. They can also call woodland beings once a day, calling creatures who fight to the best of their ability. Also, no good- or neutral-aligned forest creature will ever harm a leshy.

Habitat/Society: Leshies are protectors who act in maintenance and defense of their forests at all costs. A leshy will die if his forest is destroyed (a rare event, as they inhabit only the largest of forests).

Leshies know every detail of the forest they inhabit and may make excellent guides if they can be persuaded. Leshies help only good creatures and drive away any evil ones.

Ecology: Leshies can live to be 1,000 years old, retaining a youthful appearance throughout their lives. If one dies, a new one appears by some unknown occurrence.

Leshies are vegetarians, subsisting primarily on berries, fruit, roots, and tubers.

Gold and silver have no value to leshies, but they often keep small amounts of wealth to use for bartering purposes.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #239 (1997).


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## freyar (Nov 10, 2009)

Oh dear heavens.  Separate statblocks for sizes from Tiny to Large?  Or some kind of enlarge self ability?


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## Shade (Nov 10, 2009)

I'd prefer an enlarge self ability (like a variation on the efreet change size we often use).


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## freyar (Nov 11, 2009)

So give them a Tiny base size or something in the middle?  Maybe Medium adjusting both directions is easiest.


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## Shade (Nov 11, 2009)

Good call.   Shall we figure out some ability scores for the Medium version?

Int is given as 17-18.

Borrow the splinterwaif's scores (Str 11, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 18, Wis 14, Cha 16)?  That would give us our target AC (if we don't go the unearthly grace route).


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## freyar (Nov 11, 2009)

Sounds reasonable.  Since they cast as druids but don't have SLAs, let's bump Wis to 17 or 19 and decrease Cha to compensate.


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 12, 2009)

freyar's modifications to Shade's mental ability scores seem fair, although we may want to boost the AC a little bit with Unearthly Grace. I think we should make them much stronger, though. They're as strong as a hill giant (Str 25) when Large, and change size, since it works as enlarge person, only grants a +2 to Str, rather than the full size-category-changing bonus.


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## freyar (Nov 12, 2009)

Ugh, I forgot that about change size.  Agreed to higher Str.  Str 21?


----------



## Shade (Nov 13, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (Nov 13, 2009)

Instead of X/day, shouldn't the change size be dependent on the location in the forest (per the text), or do we think that's too complicated?  And I think it should definitely be able to change by up to 2 size categories.


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 14, 2009)

I think the location thing should be flavor-text only--they're more likely to be in Tiny form at the edges of their territory, etc.


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## Cleon (Nov 15, 2009)

freyar said:


> Instead of X/day, shouldn't the change size be dependent on the location in the forest (per the text), or do we think that's too complicated? And I think it should definitely be able to change by up to 2 size categories.




A Medium-sized fey with unlimited size change up to +/- 2 categories would work, but upon reflection it may be easier to stat it at its largest size (since that's the form it'll likely fight in) and have a size-changing power to allow it to shrink down to Tiny or any size category in between, with a sidebar giving what skill and AC changes it gets when it's reduced to Tiny-size to avoid detection.

So, Huge Fey?

Maybe with Advancement to Gargantuan or even Colossal, since they can grow "tall as a fir tree"?



demiurge1138 said:


> I think the location thing should be flavor-text only--they're more likely to be in Tiny form at the edges of their territory, etc.




I agree, from my limited recollections of Russian mythology there's little consistency in the Leshy's size-changing powers.


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## freyar (Nov 15, 2009)

I don't think Gargantuan or Colossal, at least if we're sticking to the 2e text.  They go from 1 foot tall (Tiny) to hill giant size (Huge).   But I could see the argument for whichever size to use as a base; I had just thought the middle would be convenient.


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## Shade (Nov 16, 2009)

freyar said:


> Instead of X/day, shouldn't the change size be dependent on the location in the forest (per the text), or do we think that's too complicated?  And I think it should definitely be able to change by up to 2 size categories.






demiurge1138 said:


> I think the location thing should be flavor-text only--they're more likely to be in Tiny form at the edges of their territory, etc.




I agree.  The simplest and most elegant mechanic is probably to keep them at Medium base, with the ability to change up or down 2 size categories, not dependent upon location in the forest.


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## freyar (Nov 16, 2009)

So should it say Tiny to Huge then, specifying that the spell consequences happen in sequence (Medium to Large, then Large to Huge, for example)?


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## Shade (Nov 17, 2009)

In other words, it may only change 1 size category up or down per use?

I swear we've seen another creature like this...


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## freyar (Nov 17, 2009)

Well, I don't mind how many steps it goes at once (though maybe what you suggest is simpler), I just want to be clear that the changes for 2 categories are double the changes for 1 size category.


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## Shade (Nov 18, 2009)

Here are a few more examples of size changing abilities...

Size Change (Su): Once per day, a shimnus can change its size in a fashion similar to the effect of an enlarge person spell. The size change from Medium to Huge grants a +16 size bonus to Strength, a –4 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –2 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. Its natural reach increases to 15 feet. The shimnus can remain at this size for 10 rounds. This ability is otherwise like the enlarge person spell. 

Size Change (Su): At will, spriggans can change their size in a fashion similar to the effect of an enlarge person spell. The size change from Small to Large gains +8 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution and -2 attack bonus and Armor class. A spriggan's short sword has the same attributes as a Large short sword when enlarged. An enlarged spriggan is unable to make a sneak attack or use its spell-like abilities.


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## freyar (Nov 18, 2009)

Hmm, seems like they're not all entirely consistent with each other or enlarge person.  Of those, I think I prefer the spriggan change.  I dunno, how much of a change do we want this to be, and how close to enlarge person do we want to keep it?


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 19, 2009)

I don't think we need to stick very close to enlarge person at all. If we do go for more of a spriggan version, we should pare down the strength of the Medium leshy.


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## Shade (Nov 19, 2009)

Lets go that route.   So something more like this?

*Size Change (Su):* At will, leshies can change their size by one category.  A leshy cannot increase its size larger than Huge, and may not decrease its size smaller than Tiny.  With each size increase, make the following adjustments:  +8 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +4 Constitution and -1 attack bonus and Armor class.  With each size increase, make the following adjustments:  -8 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -4 Constitution and +1 attack bonus and Armor class.  Hit points remain unchanged.  In Large or Huge size, a leshy may use its rock throwing ability.


While this doesn't exactly match the usual size increase chart, it seemed easier to adjudicate to keep everything constant.   Ditto for making the hit points remain constant.

Thoughts?


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## freyar (Nov 19, 2009)

That seems fine, though the second "size increase" should be a "size decrease."  Put the Medium size Str back to 10-11?


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## Shade (Nov 20, 2009)

How about Str 17?  That way, when we add 8 for Large size, it's as strong as a hill giant like the original text.  

One drawback to the current size change description, though.  In Tiny form, the leshy will only have a Str of 1!


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## freyar (Nov 20, 2009)

Ah, but I thought it's only as powerful as a hill giant when it's Huge.

How about we go with +/- 4 Str with each size category and start with Str 15 or 17?


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## Shade (Nov 20, 2009)

That works for me.  Any objections?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 20, 2009)

Shade said:


> That works for me.  Any objections?




I think the +/- 4 Strength works better.

I'd be tempted to drop the Con change (since it'll change the saves and makes the unchanged HP look funny) and add a +/- 2 Natural Armour adjustment to keep its AC the same.


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## Shade (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah, that makes good sense.

So...

Size Change (Su): At will, leshies can change their size by one category. A leshy cannot increase its size larger than Huge, and may not decrease its size smaller than Tiny. With each size increase, make the following adjustments: +4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 natural armor, and -1 attack bonus and Armor class. With each size decrease, make the following adjustments: -4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 natural armor, and +1 attack bonus and Armor class. In Large or Huge size, a leshy may use its rock throwing ability.


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## freyar (Nov 20, 2009)

Just to clarify, the change in AC is just the size category modifier, and there is an additional change in AC due to the change in Dex, right?  The wording trips me up like the hp and Con.


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## Shade (Nov 20, 2009)

Yeah, that could probably be better defined...

Size Change (Su): At will, leshies can change their size by one category. A leshy cannot increase its size larger than Huge, and may not decrease its size smaller than Tiny. With each size increase, make the following adjustments: +4 Strength, -2 Dexterity, +2 natural armor, -1 attack bonus, and -1 size adjustment to Armor Class. With each size decrease, make the following adjustments: -4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, -2 natural armor, +1 attack bonus, and +1 size adjustment to Armor Class. In Large or Huge size, a leshy may use its rock throwing ability.


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## freyar (Nov 20, 2009)

I think that might just do it.


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## Shade (Nov 20, 2009)

In that case, let's tackle this...

Rock Throwing (Ex): When assuming Large or Huge size, a leshy may hurl rocks.  Leshies are accomplished rock throwers and receive a +1 racial bonus on attack rolls when throwing rocks. A leshy that assumes Large size can hurl rocks weighing 40 to 50 pounds each (Small objects) up to five range increments, dealing 2d6+5 points of damage. A leshy that assumes Huge size can hurl rocks of 60 to 80 pounds (Medium objects), dealing 2d8+7 points of damage.  The range increment is 120 feet for a leshy's thrown rocks, regardless of size.

Look OK?


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## freyar (Nov 21, 2009)

Works for me.


----------



## Cleon (Nov 21, 2009)

freyar said:


> Works for me.




The size-changing and rock-throwing meets my approval.

You shall be spared the hideous punishment of my wrath.


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## Shade (Nov 23, 2009)

I'm glad I dodged _that_ bullet.   

Updated.

Spells: A leshy casts spells as a 12th-level druid. 

Typical Druid Spells Prepared (6/6/5/5/4/3/2; save DC 14 + spell level): 
0—x; 
1st—x; 
2nd—x; 
3rd—x; 
4th—x;
5th—x;
6th—x.


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## freyar (Nov 23, 2009)

A mix of spells with a reasonable amount of combat potential.  It's all up for discussion, though.

0 - create water, cure minor wounds, detect poison, guidance, purify food and drink, resistance
1 - calm animals, entangle, faerie fire, longstrider, produce flame, speak with animals
2 - animal messenger, barkskin, flameblade, summon nature's ally II, tree shape
3 - cure moderate wounds, daylight, plant growth, sleet storm, spike growth
4 - air walk, command plants, freedom of movement, rusting grasp
5 - commune with nature, insect plague, wall of thorns
6 - greater dispel magic, summon nature's ally VI


----------



## Shade (Nov 23, 2009)

Those look perfectly good to me.


----------



## Cleon (Nov 24, 2009)

freyar said:


> A mix of spells with a reasonable amount of combat potential.  It's all up for discussion, though.
> 
> 0 - create water, cure minor wounds, detect poison, guidance, purify food and drink, resistance
> 1 - calm animals, entangle, faerie fire, longstrider, produce flame, speak with animals
> ...




You know, I like the idea of it being able to spontaneously cast summoning spells like a druid, in which case we'd need to swap the _insect plague_, _summon nature's ally II_ and _summon nature's ally __VI_ for something else.

I'd also drop the _commune with nature_ for something that's more immediately applicable, 

_Flameblade_ seems wrong. Not only does it not gel with the description of it wailing around with tree-trunks (= Huge Greatclub for 3d8+13 damage?) it doesn't do that great damage (1d8+6 fire), and there's also the question as to whether it's even proficient in scimitar.

So, I'd prefer the following, with the changed spells in _*bold italic*_:Casts as 12th level druid (including spontaneous summons).

0 - create water, cure minor wounds, detect poison, guidance, purify food and drink, resistance
1 - calm animals, entangle, faerie fire, longstrider, produce flame, speak with animals
2 - animal messenger, barkskin, _*lesser restoration*_, *resist energy*, tree shape
3 - cure moderate wounds, daylight, plant growth, sleet storm, spike growth
4 - air walk, command plants, freedom of movement, rusting grasp
5 - _*stoneskin*_, _*tree strike*_, wall of thorns
6 - greater dispel magic, _*live oak*_​


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## Shade (Nov 24, 2009)

Good catch on the summon spells...since it casts as a druid, it will gain the spontaneous summon swap automatically.

I find your revised list appealing.  And you reminded me that we need to note the bit about improvised clubs at big sizes.

Updated.


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## freyar (Nov 24, 2009)

I'm always forgetting spontaneous summons...

I also like the revised list.  I did have one idea, though: since it likes to use improvised clubs, why not give it shilelagh at 1st level to replace maybe faerie fire or produce flame?


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## Shade (Nov 24, 2009)

Let's replace produce flame, to avoid those pesky unwanted forest fires.  



> Combat: A leshy can blend in with his surroundings by standing perfectly still, effectively invisible. A druid or ranger has a 5% chance per level of spotting a leshy. It is impossible to surprise one.




Camouflage and Hide in Plain Sight like a high-level ranger?   Racial bonus on Hide checks in forest terrain?  Racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks?  Improved Init as bonus feat?



> Also, no good- or neutral-aligned forest creature will ever harm a leshy.




Flavor text or actual ability?


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## freyar (Nov 25, 2009)

Yes to ranger abilities, all skill bonuses, and Imp Init.  And flavor text.


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 25, 2009)

Flavor text, I think, for the "no creature may attack".

As for their forest mastery, all of those suggestions sound good. We could always, however, actually give it a "forest mastery" SQ for camo+HIPS and a racial bonus to Listen, Spot and initiative when in a forest.


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## Shade (Nov 25, 2009)

I like that idea (less bookeeping!).  

Forest Mastery (Ex):  A leshy can use the Hide skill in any sort of forest terrain, even if the terrain doesn’t grant cover or concealment, and can use the Hide skill in forests even while being observed.  While in forest terrain, a leshy gains a +8 racial bonus on Hide, Listen, and Spot checks, and a +4 racial bonus on initiative.

Look OK?


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 25, 2009)

Looks right to me.


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## Shade (Nov 25, 2009)

Updated.

Suggestions for the attack line?  Apparently, they only fight with weapons, and then only do so at Large or Huge size.  If we give it a weapon, then it will scale with the leshy, defeating the need for the tree club.   Just list unarmed strikes?

DR 5 or 10/cold iron?

Skills: 10 at 11 ranks
Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival?

Feats: 3


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## Cleon (Nov 25, 2009)

freyar said:


> I'm always forgetting spontaneous summons...
> 
> I also like the revised list.  I did have one idea, though: since it likes to use improvised clubs, why not give it shilelagh at 1st level to replace maybe faerie fire or produce flame?




Oh, _shillelagh_ is a great idea, and it scales with weapon size.



Shade said:


> Let's replace produce flame, to avoid those pesky unwanted forest fires.




Well a +1 Colossal quarterstaff is also a good way of stamping out forest fires, and those who create them. (4d6+14/4d6+5 damage, including Strength and the _+1 _enhancement)

Shame there's no mention of _shillelagh _working on greatclubs (6d8 damage for a Colossal creatclub!)


----------



## Cleon (Nov 25, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Flavor text, I think, for the "no creature may attack".




I'd prefer something mechanical. If we just give them a ranger/drud's wild empathy and a +14 or better diplomacy bonus, then they are pretty automatically "friends to the animals", since that's enough to shift an average wild animal's Unfriendly attitude to Friendly.



demiurge1138 said:


> As for their forest mastery, all of those suggestions sound good. We could always, however, actually give it a "forest mastery" SQ for camo+HIPS and a racial bonus to Listen, Spot and initiative when in a forest.




Maybe add a racial bonus to Diplomacy checks applied to forest fauna?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 25, 2009)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> Suggestions for the attack line?  Apparently, they only fight with weapons, and then only do so at Large or Huge size.  If we give it a weapon, then it will scale with the leshy, defeating the need for the tree club.   Just list unarmed strikes?




I'd prefer the Leshy's gear doesn't scale with it, since IIRC it doesn't in the myths. (If you're wondering why they don't rip out of their clothes, from what I remember of Russian folklore there isn't much mention of them wearing garments, although I remember one story of one wearing a cloak of living leaves, I don't think it was an authentic folktale).

Besides, I like the idea of the 4 foot tall hairy elf the PCs are talking to getting angry, shooting up to 30 feet tall and uprooting a nearby pinetree in a menacing fashion.

Anyhow, weapons are a bit complicated, since they'll vary by size - maybe give them representative entries for Tiny, Medium and Huge?



Shade said:


> DR 5 or 10/cold iron?




DR 10/cold iron I guess. They'd be pretty squishy otherwise.



Shade said:


> Skills: 10 at 11 ranks
> Concentration, Diplomacy, Hide, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival?
> 
> Feats: 3




Those skills look fine to me.

As for feats, the definitely need something to boost that Fort save, so Great Fortitude for a start. Actually, I'd also suggest upping their Con, since 12 seem way too low. Maybe 18 or 20, to be on a par with its other stats?

We could give it a weapon-enhancing feat. If we give it a quarterstaff, maybe Two-Weapon Fighting, or if we opt for greatclub perhaps Power Attack. Although with its low attack bonus it might not get much return for it.

Combat Reflexes probably offers more bang for the buck, for when it Hulks up to Huge size and gets extra reach.


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 26, 2009)

Give it a club for it to use with its shilleleagh spell. Agreed to DR 10 and a better Con score.

Combat Reflexes, Extend Spell, Great Fort.


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## freyar (Nov 26, 2009)

Agreed to giving it a club.  It can stand in for the ripped-up tree.  Speaking of, does it need some ability to negate nonproficiency penalties?

demiurge's feats look good.  Which spells should we extend and which spells drop?

I can see the rationale for wild empathy.  That would be nicer than just a "no animals attack" SQ.


----------



## Cleon (Nov 27, 2009)

freyar said:


> Agreed to giving it a club.  It can stand in for the ripped-up tree.  Speaking of, does it need some ability to negate nonproficiency penalties?




I don't see why. Fey are proficient in simple weapons, which includes club and quarterstaff, and we can always add a Greatclub ("Treetrunk") to the attack line to give it automatic proficiency in that, too.


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## freyar (Nov 27, 2009)

Well, my thought was that the tree trunk would be an improvised weapon by RAW, even if it is really a club.


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## Cleon (Nov 28, 2009)

freyar said:


> Well, my thought was that the tree trunk would be an improvised weapon by RAW, even if it is really a club.




Oh right, do you mean something like.*Weaponise Timber (Ex):* As a move-equivalent action a Leshy can tear off a branch or uproot a small tree and convert it into a club, quarterstaff or greatclub. The Leshy can wield this crude weapon proficiently, but other creatures treat is as an improvised weapon.​


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## freyar (Nov 29, 2009)

That would work, and it also nicely tells us how long the process takes.


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## demiurge1138 (Nov 29, 2009)

Let us drop sleet storm for an extended barkskin and stoneskin for extended command plants? Also, shouldn't it be "tree stride", not "strike"?


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## freyar (Nov 30, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Let us drop sleet storm for an extended barkskin and stoneskin for extended command plants? Also, shouldn't it be "tree stride", not "strike"?



Seconded on all that.


----------



## Shade (Nov 30, 2009)

Updated.

I'm not feeling the quarterstaff as an improvised weapon option, but the club and greatclub sound good.  

Environment: Temperate forests?

Challenge Rating: x

Treasure: x (Mx10 is equal to 30-80 gp)

Advancement: 9-24 HD (Medium)?

A leshy is 5 to 6 feet tall in its natural form and weighs x pounds.


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## freyar (Nov 30, 2009)

Looks pretty good there.

Agreed to your suggestions.  CR 5?  1/2 coins, no goods, no items?  100-200 lb?

Up in flavor, should we say that the "replacement" leshy takes a few days to form, just to let PCs that kill one get away?


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 1, 2009)

CR 5? No way. I'd say CR 8-10. Somewhere in there--it's sort of fragile, but it's a powerful caster, has DR 10 and the size change is pretty nasty.


----------



## Shade (Dec 1, 2009)

I'm leaning toward CR 10, or even higher.  It essentially adds 12 levels of druidic casting to a hill giant, plus DR and SR, with only 2 less HD.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 1, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Let us drop sleet storm for an extended barkskin and stoneskin for extended command plants? Also, shouldn't it be "tree stride", not "strike"?




Suits me. I'd be tempted to replace the non-extended versions of the spells with something else - perhaps _owl's wisdom_ to boost Will saves and spell DCs and _scrying_ for general-purpose divination? Come to think of it _extended owl's wisdom_ could be more useful than _extended barkskin_.

Oh and it should be _tree stride_. Twas just a typo.

That would make it:

0 - _create water, cure minor wounds, detect poison, guidance, purify food and drink, resistance_
1 - _calm animals, entangle, faerie fire, longstrider, produce flame, speak with animals_
2 - _animal messenger, barkskin, lesser restoration, resist energy, tree shape_
3 - _cure moderate wounds, daylight, plant growth, extended owl's wisdom, spike growth_
4 - _air walk, freedom of movement, rusting grasp, scrying_
5 - _extended command plants, __tree stride, wall of thorns_
6 - _greater dispel magic, live oak_


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## Cleon (Dec 1, 2009)

Shade said:


> I'm leaning toward CR 10, or even higher.  It essentially adds 12 levels of druidic casting to a hill giant, plus DR and SR, with only 2 less HD.




You know you're right, having it have less HD than its full caster level does seem rather back-to-front.

How about increasing its HD to 12 or more and make it Challenge Rating 12 or 13?

Since it can assume Huge size with Strength 29, which is neatly intermediary between a Cloud Giant (Huge, 17HD, Str 33) and a Hill Giant (Large, 12 HD, Str 25), how about making its Hit Dice right between those two giant, i.e. 15, or just double its original HD to 16.

16 Hit Dice and CR13?


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## freyar (Dec 2, 2009)

Yeah, I forgot about the casting.  

I see Cleon's point about the HD being pretty low.  I'm not sure about going all the way to 16HD, but maybe up to 12.  Anyone else?


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## Shade (Dec 2, 2009)

I could go with 12 HD.


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## freyar (Dec 2, 2009)

Let's stick to 12 HD, then.


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## Cleon (Dec 2, 2009)

freyar said:


> Let's stick to 12 HD, then.




That's alright by me.


----------



## Shade (Dec 2, 2009)

Updated.

Does it look worthy of CR 13?


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## freyar (Dec 3, 2009)

I expect so.


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## Cleon (Dec 3, 2009)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> Does it look worthy of CR 13?




I'm divided. It's got decent spell resistance and DR, but its attack adds and AC are pretty poor for that Challenge Rating.

Shall we make them CR12 for the time being.

You've adjusted its hits, skills and attacks for its extra HD, but it's still short two Feats.


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## Shade (Dec 3, 2009)

Cleon said:


> I'm divided. It's got decent spell resistance and DR, but its attack adds and AC are pretty poor for that Challenge Rating.




But so is a 12th-level druid (CR 12), which it is, plus some serious size bonuses.



Cleon said:


> You've adjusted its hits, skills and attacks for its extra HD, but it's still short two Feats.




Indeed I did.  Nice catch.  Suggestions?


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## freyar (Dec 3, 2009)

Augment Summoning and Power Attack?


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## Shade (Dec 3, 2009)

Those both seem thematically appropriate.

Updated.

All done, or do we need to debate the CR further?


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## freyar (Dec 3, 2009)

I'm fine with CR 13.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 4, 2009)

It looks alright, except that its AC is garbage. We should add a natural armor bonus at the very least.


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## Shade (Dec 4, 2009)

Good point.  The AC does indeed suck.  Start with +7 natural at Medium, and then it will end up equal to a hill giant at Large?


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## freyar (Dec 4, 2009)

This is why we keep demiurge around.   That makes sense to me.


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## Shade (Dec 4, 2009)

I thought it was because he always brings beer.  

Updated.


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## freyar (Dec 4, 2009)

That looks better.  Done now?


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## Shade (Dec 4, 2009)

Here's the next one to begin playing with...

*DOGAI*
Armor Class: 1 Magic Ability: See Below
Move: 9”
Hit Points: 25
Fighter Ability: Swordsman, 3rd Level

The Dogai impersonate a man’s wife to seduce him. But they overdo everything. Their joints are reversed, and sometimes their hands are too. In their own shape they are gross and ugly and have exceedingly large ears. They can use Polymorph, Seduction, Charm Person, and Teleport.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #29 (1979).

Oceanic Creatures - The CBG Wiki
The Mythology of Oceania
Encyclopedia Mythica: Other mythologies.


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## Cleon (Dec 5, 2009)

freyar said:


> Augment Summoning and Power Attack?




Augment Summoning has a prerequisite of Spell Focus (summoning), which it lacks.

Spell Penetration instead?



Shade said:


> Good point. The AC does indeed suck. Start with +7 natural at Medium, and then it will end up equal to a hill giant at Large?




I'll go along with that.


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## Cleon (Dec 5, 2009)

Shade said:


> Here's the next one to begin playing with...
> 
> *DOGAI*
> Armor Class: 1 Magic Ability: See Below
> ...




Hmm...

I think they've got too good saves and fighting ability to make sense as Fey. 3HD Outsider or Monstrous Humanoid?

I'd cut down the supernatural abilities a bit, maybe to _change self_ and _dimension door_ as spell-like abilities. I'm a bit puzzled by the "Seduction", I don't recall that spell appearing in the 1st edition PHB or the Little Brown Books. Besides, a _charm person_ power should satisfy all the necessary requirements.


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## freyar (Dec 6, 2009)

Cleon said:


> Augment Summoning has a prerequisite of Spell Focus (summoning), which it lacks.
> 
> Spell Penetration instead?




Oh, rats, how did I miss that?  My wife was thinking about taking that feat for a PC, too.  

In another thread, Shade mentioned that Spell Penetration isn't always so great, since most PCs aren't going to have SR.  But maybe for the leshy it would make sense.  Other options are the Spell Focus feat or something melee-focused.


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## freyar (Dec 6, 2009)

Cleon said:


> Hmm...
> 
> I think they've got too good saves and fighting ability to make sense as Fey. 3HD Outsider or Monstrous Humanoid?
> 
> I'd cut down the supernatural abilities a bit, maybe to _change self_ and _dimension door_ as spell-like abilities. I'm a bit puzzled by the "Seduction", I don't recall that spell appearing in the 1st edition PHB or the Little Brown Books. Besides, a _charm person_ power should satisfy all the necessary requirements.



Of those two types, I'd go with monstrous humanoid.  And you're probably right about the SLAs.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 6, 2009)

Monstrous humanoid works for me. They're something like goonier doppelgangers. Although the SLAs suggest fey or outsider, and I'm a big fan of native outsiders...


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## freyar (Dec 6, 2009)

I can almost see native outsider, if they're a servant of someone maybe.  But I'm just not getting quite the outsider vibe.  Dunno.


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## Shade (Dec 7, 2009)

I'm fine with Spell Penetration for the leshy, and let's retain Augment Summoning as a bonus feat, since they were quite summons-focused.  Updated.

As for the dogai, I think I'm convinced by native outsider.  Their reversed joints (and sometimes hands) immediately make me think of rakshasas, which happen to be native outsiders.


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## freyar (Dec 7, 2009)

The leshy looks good.

I had noticed the comparison to the rakshasa, so native outsider is fine.  The dogai don't seem quite as clever and, well, competent as rakshasas, though.  In fact, they sound slightly comical.


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## Shade (Dec 7, 2009)

Here are the writeups from the other sources I linked above...

"dogai (Torres Strait Islands) - evil shapeshifters appearing as beautiful young women; head can swivel, limbs bend backwards" 

"Dogai (Melanesia): A malignant spirit who tried constantly to frustrate human enterprise by making crops fail, scaring fish away from nets, etc. Some places he was a male god, in other places she was a female goddess."

"Female mischief-making spirits of the western islands of the Torres Straits (Melanesia). They dress are ordinary women but have hideous features, long, skinny legs, and huge ears. One of these ears is used as a bed, the other functions as a blanket. The dògai are sometimes able to assume the shape of beautiful women and in this guise deceive human beings. They are also able to transform themselves into animals, rocks, trees, and even constellations. They play tricks on people, but are easily outwitted. However, on some occasions they kill boys and girls and as such naughty children are threatened by their parents with stories of the dògai."


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## freyar (Dec 7, 2009)

Definitely a generous version of alternate form, the SLAs given above with possibly others related to crop failing, and I'd think a low Int.


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## Cleon (Dec 8, 2009)

Shade said:


> As for the dogai, I think I'm convinced by native outsider.  Their reversed joints (and sometimes hands) immediately make me think of rakshasas, which happen to be native outsiders.




Yes, I agree on Native Outsider. It fits their description as "spirits" better than Monstrous Humanoid.



freyar said:


> Definitely a generous version of alternate form, the SLAs given above with possibly others related to crop failing, and I'd think a low Int.




I'd rather just give them the more limited shape-changing (alter self or change self) suited to their mediocre Hit Dice. Perhaps this is a 'lesser dogai'. We could give them illusion powers (_minor image?_) and say they use them for the rock/tree/constellation disguises. A 1/day or 1/week _diminish plants_ would be enough to represent their crop blighting ability.

As for their ability scores, since we've already compared them to a Rakshasa how about taking a Rakshasa's ability scores and and knocking 2 or 4 off the mental stats, so:*Rakshasa:* Str 12, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 13, Wis 13, Cha 17​Modify by -4 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha.*Dogai:* Str 12, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 15​If we give it Con 16 and three levels of outsider, its 3d8+9 Hit Dice average 22 hit points, or 3 short of the original's 25. If we want to remedy that shortfall we could easily give it Toughness as a regular or bonus feat or up its Con to 18.


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## freyar (Dec 8, 2009)

I think alter self doesn't help, because then they could only look like outsiders!  But we could do a limited alternate form (humanoids only, maybe only females though I'd go for both genders).  Minor image is a good idea, and diminish plants is just what I was thinking.

Using the "4.5 rule," I think they'd have 5 and a half HD.


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## Shade (Dec 8, 2009)

Better yet, why not use the rakshasa's change shape ability?

Change Shape (Su): A rakshasa can assume any humanoid form, or revert to its own form, as a standard action. In humanoid form, a rakshasa loses its claw and bite attacks (although it often equips itself with weapons and armor instead). A rakshasa remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but the rakshasa reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals its natural form.

I like 5 HD and the suggest ability scores (Str 12, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 15).   Minor image and diminish plants also appeal.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 9, 2009)

These guys are shaping up pretty nicely! Do we want to give them natural attacks? Claws or slams? Some other SLAs might be appropriate, like scare, prestidigitation and maybe levitate? You can get a lot of spooky stuff from those, and that's the vibe I get from these guys. Sort of spooky, sort of silly.


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## Shade (Dec 9, 2009)

Sounds good!

Let's go with claws like the rakshasa.

Added to Homebrews.

Since these are shaping up as "lesser rakshasa cousins", how about borrowing some of the following?

damage reduction x/good and piercing
spell resistance 
A rakshasa has a +4 racial bonus on Bluff and Disguise checks.

Always lawful evil like rakshasa, or does anyone else feel a more chaotic vibe here?


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## freyar (Dec 9, 2009)

Let's keep prestidigitation as at will.

I actually would like to make them a little dumber.  Maybe Int 7.

DR 5/good or piercing maybe.  
Just a little SR.  Maybe CR +5 or 6.
Racial bonuses make sense.
Maybe a chaotic vibe, but especially a dumb vibe.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 9, 2009)

Shade said:


> Better yet, why not use the rakshasa's change shape ability?
> 
> Change Shape (Su): A rakshasa can assume any humanoid form, or revert to its own form, as a standard action. In humanoid form, a rakshasa loses its claw and bite attacks (although it often equips itself with weapons and armor instead). A rakshasa remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but the rakshasa reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals its natural form.
> 
> I like 5 HD and the suggest ability scores (Str 12, Dex 14, Con 16, Int 9, Wis 11, Cha 15).   Minor image and diminish plants also appeal.




The Rakshasa's Change Shape is a great idea, I'm fine with that.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 9, 2009)

Shade said:


> Sounds good!
> 
> Let's go with claws like the rakshasa.




How about it slaps its enemies with its giant ears in its natural form, for 2 slam attacks?

It's a bit goofy, but I like the idea.



Shade said:


> Since these are shaping up as "lesser rakshasa cousins", how about borrowing some of the following?
> 
> damage reduction x/good and piercing
> spell resistance
> ...




Well I'd prefer to skip the DR (as there's no mention of it in the original), but if we do give it one I'd just go for DR 5/magic or DR 5/good. It certainly doesn't feel tough enough to merit an "X and Y" Damage Reduction.

Spell Resistance is a good idea, (SR 13?), as are a rakshasa's racial bonuses to Bluff and Disguise.

As for the alignment, either Chaotic Neutral or Chaotic Evil. They don't seem to be out to kill and destroy people, more torment or mislead them.


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## Cleon (Dec 9, 2009)

freyar said:


> Let's keep prestidigitation as at will.
> 
> I actually would like to make them a little dumber.  Maybe Int 7.




Intelligence 7 is OK by me, it means fewer skill points to fuss over!


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## Shade (Dec 9, 2009)

I'll go along with the lower Int, but I can't go for the ear-slappin'.    (sorry Cleon).

Some of the sources declare them evil, so I'd want to make them at least "often evil" as well as "always chaotic".

There's so little in the original writeup that the omission of mentioning something like DR doesn't make me want to rule it out.  I'd rather stick with similar DR to the rakshasa, but could be persuade to make it damage reduction 5/good *or* piercing.   

Rakshasas have fantastic SR (CR+17).  Why don't we halve that, to CR+8 (like demons)?

How often should charmp person be used?   3/day?

Rakshasas speak Common, Infernal, and Undercommon.  Since these guys are chaotic counterparts, swap Infernal for Abyssal?


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## freyar (Dec 10, 2009)

Always chaotic, often or usually evil is good.

Since they're only 5HD, let's stick to "good or piercing" for DR.  It's an unusual combination, but I think it's ok.

SR=CR +8 is ok

3/day charm is good, and so are the suggested languages.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 11, 2009)

All of that sounds good!


----------



## Shade (Dec 11, 2009)

Updated.

Skills: 7 at 8 ranks
Rakshasa have Bluff, Concentration, Disguise, Listen, Move Silently, Perform (oratory), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot

Feats: 2
Rakshasa have Alertness, Combat Casting, Dodge


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## freyar (Dec 11, 2009)

Drop Spellcraft and Perform from the Rakshasa list, I think.

Maybe Alertness and Skill Focus (Disguise)?


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## Cleon (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't mind Chaotic Evil, they don't have to be murderous to be malevolent.



freyar said:


> Drop Spellcraft and Perform from the Rakshasa list, I think.




I agree on the skills.



freyar said:


> Maybe Alertness and Skill Focus (Disguise)?




Isn't their an OGL feat which gives a +2 on Bluff and Disguise? Such a feat would seem appropriate.


----------



## freyar (Dec 11, 2009)

I don't see such a feat in the SRD, and we generally limit ourselves to core for feats.  But I do agree with you.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 11, 2009)

The line about scaring fish from nets, and their spookier SLAs, make me think they should get Intimidate as a class skill. Maybe instead of Sense Motive, since they're easy to fool?

I also got the impression that their disguises weren't always the greatest, so I'd rather not give them Skill Focus (disguise). Perhaps Persuasive and Weapon Finesse or Improved Initiative?


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## freyar (Dec 12, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> The line about scaring fish from nets, and their spookier SLAs, make me think they should get Intimidate as a class skill. Maybe instead of Sense Motive, since they're easy to fool?
> 
> I also got the impression that their disguises weren't always the greatest, so I'd rather not give them Skill Focus (disguise). Perhaps Persuasive and Weapon Finesse or Improved Initiative?



That's fair enough.  I actually got the impression that their behavior when disguised wasn't right (is that Bluff? but it seems like an Int problem).  Maybe Alertness and Weapon Finesse.


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## Cleon (Dec 12, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> The line about scaring fish from nets, and their spookier SLAs, make me think they should get Intimidate as a class skill. Maybe instead of Sense Motive, since they're easy to fool?




That makes sense, so I'll go along with it.



demiurge1138 said:


> I also got the impression that their disguises weren't always the greatest, so I'd rather not give them Skill Focus (disguise). Perhaps Persuasive and Weapon Finesse or Improved Initiative?




Persuasive suits them methinks. They just don't seem that combat oriented to me, so I don't fancy Finesse.

How about Spell Focus to increase their spell DCs? Either Necromancy to boost their _scare_ or Enchantment to boost their _charm person_?


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## freyar (Dec 12, 2009)

I didn't think Spell Focus helped out SLAs any...


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 12, 2009)

If memory serves me right, Spell Focus doesn't help, but Ability Focus does. Unfortunately, they don't have any SLAs that could be Empowered, and the various feats that give bonuses with fear effects are non-core. I kind of want to "cheat" a bit with these, either by giving them an explanation in Feats about how Spell Focus applies to their spells or to give them one of the SRD's spelltouched feats. Either False Pretenses or Residual Rebound would be fun.

False Pretenses [Spelltouched]

Those who try to charm you get an unpleasant surprise.
Prerequisite: Exposure to charm or dominate spell.
Benefit: When you succeed on a save against a charm or compulsion effect, the character trying to charm or compel you believes that you failed your save. You can play along voluntarily if you wish to. if the charm or compulsion involves telepathic commands, you continue to receive them, although you aren't obligated to follow them.

Residual Rebound [Spelltouched]

Sometimes spells cast at you rebound on the caster instead.
Prerequisite: Exposure to spell resistance or spell turning spell.
Benefit: If you roll a natural 20 on a save against a targeted spell, it turns back on the caster as if affected by a spell turning spell. Unlike spell turning, however, the Residual Rebound feat potentially functions against touch range spells as well. Residual Rebound only works on targeted spells that allow a saving throw, so a fireball won't rebound, nor will a power word stun.


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## freyar (Dec 12, 2009)

Those are pretty cool!  But I'm a little unsure why these quite work.  False Pretenses sort of makes sense, but the dogai are the charmers, not the charmees.  I mean, I can write fluff justifying how they all charm each other in childhood to give them this feat, but who's going to charm them later?

I'm still bothered a bit about skills.  I kind of think they should not have Bluff, since that would give them a synergy bonus with Disguise for acting, which they're really suppoesd to be bad at.  What about these skills?

Bluff 4,  Concentration 8, Disguise 4, Hide 8, Intimidate 8, Listen 8, Move Silently 8, Spot 8


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 13, 2009)

Splitting the ranks between Bluff and Disguise I like.


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## Cleon (Dec 13, 2009)

freyar said:


> Those are pretty cool!  But I'm a little unsure why these quite work.  False Pretenses sort of makes sense, but the dogai are the charmers, not the charmees.  I mean, I can write fluff justifying how they all charm each other in childhood to give them this feat, but who's going to charm them later?
> 
> I'm still bothered a bit about skills.  I kind of think they should not have Bluff, since that would give them a synergy bonus with Disguise for acting, which they're really suppoesd to be bad at.  What about these skills?
> 
> Bluff 4,  Concentration 8, Disguise 4, Hide 8, Intimidate 8, Listen 8, Move Silently 8, Spot 8




I was getting the impression that they were good at looking the part (Disguise), but not so hot at fooling others (Bluff) or figuring they've been fooled themselves (Sense Motive).

So, I guess that skill point distribution fits alright.


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## freyar (Dec 14, 2009)

Well, the thing is that "acting as another person" is part of the Disguise skill and gets a synergy from Bluff.  You'd think it was Bluff, actually, but it's not.  

We might also note that this part of Change Shape doesn't apply when acting in character for a Dogai, what do you think?



			
				Change Shape said:
			
		

> The creature is effectively camouflaged as a creature of its new form, and gains a +10 bonus on Disguise checks if it uses this ability to create a disguise.


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## Shade (Dec 14, 2009)

I'd definitely like to see some ranks in Bluff (preferably 5 for the synergy bonuses).

Excellent find on False Pretenses!    I forgot the spelltouched feats were in the SRD.  



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> We might also note that this part of Change Shape doesn't apply when acting in character for a Dogai, what do you think?




I'd rather not, as it just unnecessarily complicates things, methinks.


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## freyar (Dec 14, 2009)

Oof, I'd really like to avoid the synergy bonus.  I think it's already getting too good at pretending to be someone else for the flavor text.  Especially if we don't complicate Change Shape.


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## Shade (Dec 14, 2009)

Updated.

Did we already cover any of this?

Environment: x
Organization: x
Challenge Rating: x
Treasure: x
Advancement: x
Level Adjustment: x


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## freyar (Dec 14, 2009)

I don't think so.

Any?  Rakshasa have "warm marshes," but that sounds silly for such cosmopolitan fiends.
Solitary, like rakshasas, I think.  Fits their MO, but I guess you could argue for pairs.
CR 3 or 4. 
standard treasure.  
by character class.

There's an asterix on Disguise that needs explaining, I think.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 15, 2009)

Any land and underground
Solitary or pair
CR 4, I'd say. A weaker CR 4, but it's about on par with a howler, which is broken at CR 3.


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## Shade (Dec 15, 2009)

Updated.

Finished?


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## Cleon (Dec 15, 2009)

freyar said:


> I don't think so.
> 
> Any?  Rakshasa have "warm marshes," but that sounds silly for such cosmopolitan fiends.




I'd go for "any *warm *land and underground", since they live in the tropics.



freyar said:


> Solitary, like rakshasas, I think.  Fits their MO, but I guess you could argue for pairs.




Solitary fits best, I agree.



freyar said:


> CR 3 or 4.




They look like a Challenge Rating 3 to me, they aren't that tough in a fight.

Not _quite_ sure about advancement by character class, Hit Dice would work just as well, but it works OK for me.

They'll need a favoured class though, I'm thinking sorcerer.



freyar said:


> standard treasure.




Yup, might as well.


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## freyar (Dec 15, 2009)

Add in Cleon's suggestion of "warm" in environment, and it's all set.


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## Shade (Dec 15, 2009)

Warmed.

According to Echohawk's unconverted threads, only 5 fey left!

I'll get another started soon.


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## Echohawk (Dec 17, 2009)

Shade said:


> According to Echohawk's unconverted threads, only 5 fey left!



I count nine fey left actually, unless I missed a conversion of one of these?

Boggart [Dragon #239]
Boggart [Dragon #54]
Changeling, Faerie [Blood Spawn]
Fachan [Celts Campaign Sourcebook (HR3)]
Fairy [Supplement IV: Gods, Demigods, Heroes]
Gremlin, Type I [Dragon #79]
Gremlin, Type II [Dragon #79]
Hu Hsien [Monstrous Compendium Kara-Tur Appendix]
Sidhe [Tall Tales of the Wee Folk (PC1)]


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## Shade (Dec 17, 2009)

Oops.  I was extrapolating a bit, there. 

We ruled out the Supplement IV fairy awhile back as "too generic for conversion".  It seems to have been rolled into a number of later fey.

The fachan was already converted, somewhere.  I'll need to track it down.

The hu hsien is probably a humanoid (shapechanger), like the hengeyokai.

And I think I counted the boggarts as a single creature from two sources.


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## Echohawk (Dec 17, 2009)

Shade said:


> The fachan was already converted, somewhere.  I'll need to track it down.



Are you thinking of this one? If so, the celtic and Forgotten Realms fachans are slightly different, although clearly based on the same mythological creature. The FR version is more interesting, with its "head butt" and paralytic bite. The celtic version is slightly weaker and fairly dull. I'm not sure it really warrants a separate conversion.


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## Shade (Dec 17, 2009)

Yeah, probably that one.

It sounds like it's at least worth considering for conversion, then.


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## Echohawk (Dec 17, 2009)

I could definitely see a "Lesser Fachan" or a "Celtic Fachan" variation as a separate creature, albeit perhaps a slightly dull one, once you get past the strange appearance. Do you need the stats from HR3?


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## Shade (Dec 17, 2009)

I believe you already took care of that...

*Fachan*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate hills, mountains, and rough
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Carnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Low (5-7)
TREASURE: U (Z)
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVEMENT: 9
HIT DICE: 5
THAC0: 15
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: by weapon (Strength 18/50)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: M (6/ tall)
MORALE: Steady (11-12)
XP VALUE: 270

The fachan is a roughly humanoid creature that haunts the rugged hills and mountains of Scotland. Its appearance is very striking; it has one leg placed centrally under its body, one arm sprouting from the middle of its chest, and one eye in the middle of its face. It has a single tuft of extremely tough hair rising from the top of its head.

Despite only having one leg, the fachan is both quick and agile and makes a formidable opponent. They prefer to ambush lone travelers on the mountains at night or in foul weather but have been known to attack isolated farmsteads for food.

Combat: The fachan has a strength of 18/50 and gains a +1 attack bonus and +3 damage bonus when using a weapon. An unarmed fachan can tear with its single claw for 1d6 damage. Fachans use melee weapons such as clubs and axes, preferring brute force over subtlety. Their main tactic is a fast surprise attack, seeking to overwhelm the opponent quickly by sheer force.

Habitat/Society: Fachans live in caves and other sheltered places in the wildest and bleakest of hills and mountains. They have also been known to lair in abandoned stone cottages in the mountains, and the temporary huts used by shepherds in upland summer pastures. They are entirely solitary; fachans are only seen together if compelled by some more powerful creature. Nothing is known of their reproductive habits, if any, but they can live indefinitely unless they are killed in combat or by some accident.

Ecology: Fachans eat any form of meat and seem to waylay humans principally for food. They also eat any wild animals that they can overcome by force and surprise. They scavenge from carcasses they find on the mountainside but do not set traps for game. They do not alter their environment at all, apart from littering their lairs with bones and debris and any valuables that their victims may have been carrying.


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## freyar (Dec 17, 2009)

Well, having a basis in RW mythology links them with fey, but their flavor and melee orientation seem more like monstrous humanoids (just like the other fachan conversion).  What do you think?


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## Shade (Dec 17, 2009)

We could try to morph them into more of a "feychan" (or 4chan? ), or just make 'em lesser monstrous humanoid versions.


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## freyar (Dec 17, 2009)

Let's see if anyone else has an opinion.


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## Echohawk (Dec 17, 2009)

I think I'm leaning towards the lesser monstrous humanoid option, based on the earlier conversion. Also, I've removed the Supplement IV fairy from the list of remaining fey, and moved the hu hsien across the humanoid list. 

The two boggarts seem like different creatures, both closely related to brownies. Maybe they could be converted as a boggart (#239 version) and a "fallen" boggart (#54 version)?

*Boggart *
From Dragon #54, created by Roger E. Moore

(Note: The text for doesn't seem correctly typeset in the PDF version from the Dragon Magazine archive. Several words seem to be missing. I don't have a print copy of #54 to check, alas.)

FREQUENCY: Very rare
NUMBER APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 3
MOVE: 12"
HIT DICE: 1⁄2
% IN LAIR: 10%
TREASURE TYPE: J, K, L on individual
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 7-3
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Never surprised; save as 9th-level cleric
MAGIC RESISTANCE: As above
INTELLIGENCE: Average to low
ALIGNMENT: See below
SIZE: S (1 1/2' tall)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil

When, for any reason, an alignment change brownie, the formerly lawful good creature is transformed into a boggart, or "boggie." Boggarts are solitary little creatures, with extraordinary senses and dexterity (just as the they are not surprised and have 18 dexterity with a capabilities) and may also become effectively invisible in natural terrain because of their skills at hiding.
Boggarts do not possess the same spell powers as brownies do; three times a day a boggart may shapechange, hideous form that will cause a save vs. fear, at +2, for it. In their normal shape, boggarts are small, hairy folk, something like a miniature bugbear. They have dark tan brown fur, with light nut-brown skin on their hands, feet (soles only), and faces.
Boggarts enjoy creating mischief, but can be and aren't very wise at all. A randomly encountered boggart can be chaotic neutral (60%), chaotic evil (20%), true or neutral evil (5%). Evil ones may be found as servants of assassins. Neutral (with respect to good and evil) boggarts can sometimes be found living with families in cottages, more or less as pets, occasionally harassing the occupants with (usually) harmless practical jokes.
Boggarts speak only their alignment tongue (a corrupted form of the brownie language, understandable by 50% of all brownies) and common. The change from brownie to boggart is reversible only by a Wish spell. If a brownie was a familiar to a lawful good or lawful neutral magic-user before the change, he will become hard to manage (at best) in boggart form and will run away.

*Boggart*
From Dragon #239, created by Brian Corvello

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate/Urban
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Night
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Very (11-12)
TREASURE: F
ALIGNMENT: Lawful Good

NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 2
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 1
THAC0: 20
NO. OF ATTACKS: 0
DAMAGE/ATTACK: n/a
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Invisibility
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 10%
SIZE: T (1' tall)
MORALE: Steady (11-12)
XP VALUE: 270

Boggarts are tiny, helpful cousins to brownies who live in extremely old buildings. They much prefer inhabited homes to abandoned structures.
Boggarts are invisible to all but the most innocent of humans. These are usually children, but occasionally a very good paladin or lawful good priest can see them. Those who have viewed boggarts describe them as funny little men with big noses and colorful clothes. Boggarts speak the common tongue as well as the languages of elves and brownies.

*Combat*: Boggarts shun fighting, and they hate evil creatures. When one enters their home, they use their spell abilities to torment the creature in hopes of driving it away. Boggart pranks may include making an offending creature’s hair grow, turning it green, or making it trip over the furniture.
Boggarts have several spell-like powers to help them with their jokes. At will they can use faerie fire, ventriloquism, dimension door, audible glamer, cantrip, and telekinesis (50 lb..). As noted, they are invisible to most creatures, and only detection spells can reveal their presence.
Anyone who is cowardly enough actually to kill a boggart becomes the recipient of a debilitating curse of the DM's design. This may be lifted only by a remove curse spell by a caster of no less than 12th level.
Boggarts have a particular weakness: they are frightened by loud noises, which cause them to make a Morale check or flee.
Those who can communicate with boggarts find them a great source of information. Assume that any boggart is 50% likely to know any fact about the area in which they live, 80% if that knowledge involves other fairies.

*Habitat/Society*: Boggarts are helpful creatures who live in houses belonging to very good people, helping out with chores and such after the family goes to bed. They also have been known to play with young children, but they vanish when a disbelieving adult is near.
Boggarts never accept payment for their help, though if someone leaves out small scraps of food for them, they gladly gobble it up.
Boggarts are usually solitary, though every month at the night of the full moon, dozens--or even hundreds--of boggarts gather in one area for a big festival. Very few mortals have seen these merry occurrences, and those who have tell that strange secrets can be gleaned from them.

*Ecology*: Boggarts are primarily vegetarians, though they may eat sausages and smoked meats at their festivals.
Boggarts don't hoard wealth, but some may have a small amount of treasure collected over the years. A boggart may be convinced to give up his treasure if he's sure it will go to a worthy cause.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 18, 2009)

Agreed to monstrous humanoid.


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## Cleon (Dec 18, 2009)

Shade said:


> We could try to morph them into more of a "feychan" (or 4chan? ), or just make 'em lesser monstrous humanoid versions.




I like the idea of making them Fey, but that's a little tricky considering they're supposed to be excellent warriors.

How about giving them the same "Pseudo-Fighter" SQ as we did the Skotos?

Furthermore, I'd fancy giving them some of the more outré supernatural traits that some Celtic folklore attributes to them - i.e. a mind-blasting terrifying appearance (stuns or paralyzes?) and immortality (can only be killed by uprooting the tuft of hair on their heads - a custom form of regeneration?).

Suppose we could do a "Lesser Fachan" which just has the Fighter-ability and follows the Roger o' the Moore stats, and a "Greater Fachan" with the supernatural traits.


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## freyar (Dec 18, 2009)

Except there's already a "greater fachan" with 4HD that Echohawk linked above.  (Ironically, these boring ones have 5HD.)   I could see giving them some sort of fear ability, but I'm still coming back to monstrous humanoid or even aberration -- at least one web site I found in a quick google search lists them as a type of athatch.


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## Cleon (Dec 18, 2009)

freyar said:


> Except there's already a "greater fachan" with 4HD that Echohawk linked above.  (Ironically, these boring ones have 5HD.)




Well I suppose we could call the fearsome immortal one an  "Unseelie Fachan" and the mundane one without magical powers a "Lesser Fachan".

Shall we do a Lesser Fachan and argue about t'other later?



freyar said:


> I could see giving them some sort of fear ability, but I'm still coming back to monstrous humanoid or even aberration -- at least one web site I found in a quick google search lists them as a type of athatch.




I'm guessing there's an extraneous T in there and you meant an *Athach*.

Of those two type options I like Monstrous Humanoid more than Aberration, since they'd get better Reflex saves and BAB, but their weird appearance argues for Aberration.

We could make them an Aberration with a Skelos-style "Pseudo-Fighter" special quality, giving the Fachan a fighter's BAB and bonus feats?


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## freyar (Dec 18, 2009)

Yeah, got that extra "t."  The appearance and relation to the athach makes me lean more toward aberration now.


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## Cleon (Dec 19, 2009)

freyar said:


> Yeah, got that extra "t."  The appearance and relation to the athach makes me lean more toward aberration now.




Okay then, let's make it an Aberration with a fighter-boost and see where that takes us.

Medium Aberration
5 Hit Dice

A direct translation of its +4 damage bonus would give it Strength 16-17.

AD&D Low Intelligence is Int 5-7. Might as well make it Int 7, like an Athach. Indeed, we could just set all its mental stats the same as an Athach.

Constitution? They don't have a hit point bonus in the original. Scaling an Athach's Con 21 down to Medium would give them Con 13. They've also been compared to Ogres, which would scale down to Con 12.

Constitution 12?

That just leaves Dexterity. They're described as pretty agile, if I remember correctly. I'm thinking Dex 14-15. That would give them AC15 if they have a natural armour bonus of +3 (which is what results if you scale down both an Athach and an Ogre to Medium).

Putting all that together:

*Lesser Fachan*
Medium Aberration
Hit Dice 5d8+5 (32hp)
AC 15 (+2 Dex, +3 natural)
Str 17, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 6

Looks alright to me.


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## freyar (Dec 19, 2009)

Actually, the original text says Str is 18(50), which translates to Str 19.  I could even see some justification for a slight bump from that, depending on how things look later.  In any case, aside from the Str, that looks pretty good.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 19, 2009)

Yeah, I agree to boosting Str to 19.


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## Cleon (Dec 21, 2009)

freyar said:


> Actually, the original text says Str is 18(50), which translates to Str 19.  I could even see some justification for a slight bump from that, depending on how things look later.  In any case, aside from the Str, that looks pretty good.




That depends how you translate it. An AD&D Strength 18/50 is the next Strength category in line after 18 (arguing for a 19), but AD&D ability scores have a much wider plateau in the middle, so most stats don't get bonuses until they reach 15 (instead of 12 like in 3E). Using the damage bonus of +3 for that Strength instead of the raw number you get an equivalent 3E Strength of 16-17, which is what I went for, since it was closest to what you get scaling down an Ogre or Athach's Strength to Medium.

Still, I have no objection to boosting it to 19, we can always say Fachans are at the burly (300-400 pound?) end of Medium.

There are a couple of other stats that look east converts. Speed 9" => 20 feet, Alignment is probably Usually Chaotic Evil and treasure is pretty good (U or Z), so should be at least standard. (It's actually a lot for a single monster, so double standard may be more suited - but that seems rather a lot for such a monster).

So we're now.

*Lesser Fachan*
 Medium Aberration
 Hit Dice 5d8+5 (32hp)
 Speed 20 ft.
AC 15 (+2 Dex, +3 natural)
 Str 19, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 7, Wis 12, Cha 6
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Organization: Solitary
Treasure: Standard


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## freyar (Dec 21, 2009)

I'm just using the 2e->3e conversion guide that WotC put out.  But what you have now looks fine.


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## Shade (Dec 21, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.


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## Cleon (Dec 22, 2009)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews.




Aren't we giving them a "Fighter-like" SQ to provide them a fighter's BAB and bonus feats? If so, it should be BAB +5, grapple +9.

I'm wondering whether we should give them a "mighty thew" type ability that gives their single arm a 1.5 times Strength damage-bonus and the ability to wield 2-handed weapons, on the basis that it's as strong as two normal arms? If I remember correctly, Fachans are sometimes portrayed as wielding heavy weapons like great flails and halberds.

Speaking of which, what weapon shall we give them as a default?

Heavy flail would be my preference, although I wouldn't mind greatax. We can give them javelins for a ranged weapon - I doubt they'd be much good at using a bow!


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## Shade (Dec 22, 2009)

I'm not sure they need the fighter BAB, etc., especially if we're modeling them upon the athach, which lacks such an ability.

The "wield oversized weapon" bit seems a good fit, though.  So what is a better approach, the more common "wield a weapon sized for a larger creature" ability, allowing it to wield a flail sized for a larger creature in one-hand, or create an ability that allows it to treat two-handed melee weapons as one-handed?   I'd assume we would want to exclude double weapons, as that would seem...odd.


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## freyar (Dec 22, 2009)

Suppose we stick to the flail.  A Large flail does 2d6 damage.  A Medium (2-handed) heavy flail is 1d10/19-20.  Damage averages higher for the Large flail but is more concentrated near the average, but the heavy flail will crit twice as often (roughly).  Which do we like better?


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 22, 2009)

I like the ability for them to wield two-handed weapons in one hand. It seems righter, somehow. 

Would they gain the Str x 1.5 when using a two-handed weapon? Even if not, we should address this.


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## Shade (Dec 22, 2009)

Good question.  On the one hand (pun intended), they essentially have only one weapon, so if it were a natural attack, they'd get Str and 1/2.  They'd also, theoretically, have adapted to relying more on that single arm, so I could see the added Str.

Anyone opposed to Str and 1/2?


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 22, 2009)

I am not.


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## Shade (Dec 23, 2009)

Something like this?

Monodextrous (Ex):  A fachan may wield two-handed weapons in its single hand with no penalty.  It applies one and one-half times its Strength bonus as normal for two-handed weapons.   When wielding a one-handed weapon, a fachan treats it as if wielded two-handed, allowing it to apply the additional half of its Strength bonus.  A fachan wielding a double weapon always treats the weapon as if it were wielded one-handed.


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## Cleon (Dec 23, 2009)

Shade said:


> Something like this?
> 
> Monodextrous (Ex):  A fachan may wield two-handed weapons in its single hand with no penalty.  It applies one and one-half times its Strength bonus as normal for two-handed weapons.   When wielding a one-handed weapon, a fachan treats it as if wielded two-handed, allowing it to apply the additional half of its Strength bonus.  A fachan wielding a double weapon always treats the weapon as if it were wielded one-handed.




Looks good.

I'd add something about them not being able to use missile weapons that require two hands to operate, though.

Maybe:

Monodextrous (Ex): A fachan may wield two-handed weapons in its single hand with no penalty. It applies one and one-half times its Strength bonus as normal for two-handed weapons. When wielding a one-handed weapon, a fachan treats it as if wielded two-handed, allowing it to apply the additional half of its Strength bonus. A fachan wielding a double weapon always treats the weapon as if it were wielded one-handed. Fachan can not use missile weapons that require two hands to operate, such as bows.


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## Shade (Dec 23, 2009)

D'oh!  I meant to add the word "melee" before "weapons" in the first sentence.  Would that sufficiently get the point across?


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## freyar (Dec 25, 2009)

Shade said:


> D'oh!  I meant to add the word "melee" before "weapons" in the first sentence.  Would that sufficiently get the point across?



I think so.


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## Cleon (Dec 25, 2009)

Shade said:


> D'oh!  I meant to add the word "melee" before "weapons" in the first sentence.  Would that sufficiently get the point across?




That'd probably do, although I'd rather add "melee" after "one-handed", just to be on the safe side:

*Monodextrous (Ex):* A fachan may wield two-handed melee weapons in its single hand with no penalty. It applies one and one-half times its Strength bonus as normal for two-handed weapons. When wielding a one-handed melee weapon, a fachan treats it as if wielded two-handed, allowing it to apply the additional half of its Strength bonus. A fachan wielding a double weapon always treats the weapon as if it were wielded one-handed.


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## Shade (Dec 28, 2009)

Updated.

Skills: 8
Athacs have Climb, Jump, Listen, Spot

Feats: 2
Athacs have Alertness, Cleave, Multiweapon Fighting, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite)


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## freyar (Dec 28, 2009)

I kind of like the idea of Jump 2, Listen 3, Spot 3.

Of those, Power Attack and Cleave seem to fit the best.


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## demiurge1138 (Dec 28, 2009)

Wait. Do regular fachan have a paralysing bite? Or is that only athaches? Also, let's go for Power Attack and Great Fort--these guys have pretty underwhelming saves.


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## Shade (Dec 28, 2009)

Oops.  It looks like I was viewing the 3e version which had that ability.  The revised 3.5 version has Dex poison instead.


----------



## freyar (Dec 29, 2009)

Power Attack and Great Fort work.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 29, 2009)

freyar said:


> I kind of like the idea of Jump 2, Listen 3, Spot 3.




Those skills looks OK. I'd give them a racial bonus to Jump checks  (+6?) since I imagine them bouncing about like monstrous Pogo sticks.



freyar said:


> Power Attack and Great Fort work.





Fine by me.


----------



## Shade (Dec 29, 2009)

Let's make it a +12 racial bonus, to offset the -6 penalty for having a speed of only 20 feet.

Updated.

Environment: Temperate and cold hills and mountains?

Challenge Rating: 3?

Advancement: 6-10 HD (Medium); 11-13 (Large)?  (This prevents them from surpassing an athac)

A lesser fachan stands 6 feet tall and weighs x pounds.

Lesser fachans speak a crude dialect of Giant?  (like athacs)


----------



## Cleon (Dec 30, 2009)

Shade said:


> Let's make it a +12 racial bonus, to offset the -6 penalty for having a speed of only 20 feet.
> 
> Updated.
> 
> ...




That all looks fair, including the CR3.



Shade said:


> Advancement: 6-10 HD (Medium); 11-13 (Large)?  (This prevents them from surpassing an athac)




Hmm, I don't see why an exceptionally tough Fachan can't have a couple more Hit Dice than a standard Athach. That said, I imagine them as being at the upper scale of Medium size, so I'd be tempted to drop the HD required for Large.

Say 6-8 HD (Medium); 9-15 (Large)?



Shade said:


> A lesser fachan stands 6 feet tall and weighs x pounds.




I was thinking 300-400 pounds, since they're so strong and can wield 2-H medium weapons one-handed I imagine they'd be very burly.



Shade said:


> Lesser fachans speak a crude dialect of Giant?  (like athacs)




Sounds good to me.


----------



## demiurge1138 (Dec 31, 2009)

I like decreasing the HD at which they become Medium, but I don't think we should limit their HD by what an Athach has.


----------



## freyar (Dec 31, 2009)

Cleon's advancement line looks fine, and I'd agree with all of this.


----------



## Shade (Dec 31, 2009)

Sounds good.

Updated.   Finished?


----------



## Cleon (Dec 31, 2009)

Shade said:


> Sounds good.
> 
> Updated.   Finished?




I'd like to add weapon proficiencies to the descriptive text, but otherwise think it's good to go.

I was thinking "Lesser fachan are proficient in all simple weapons and all martial melee weapons."


----------



## demiurge1138 (Jan 1, 2010)

Giving them Martial Weapon Prof works for me.


----------



## freyar (Jan 3, 2010)

Me too.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 3, 2010)

demiurge1138 said:


> Giving them Martial Weapon Prof works for me.




Do you mean Martial Weapon Proficiency as a bonus feat? That would only make them proficient in one martial weapon, which would likely be subsumed in the standard "if it has a weapon in the attack line, it is proficient in it" rule for reading monster's stats.

Thus, I fancy giving them blanket proficiency in all martial melee weapons in the description text.


----------



## freyar (Jan 3, 2010)

Well, I meant proficiency in all the martial weapons, which is what I thought demiurge meant also.  I'm also getting the sneaking suspicion that there's already a SQ for this.


----------



## demiurge1138 (Jan 3, 2010)

freyar's right about my intents.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 4, 2010)

freyar said:


> Well, I meant proficiency in all the martial weapons, which is what I thought demiurge meant also.  I'm also getting the sneaking suspicion that there's already a SQ for this.




Fine by me. We don't need a SQ though, we can just put a line on weapon proficiencies in the description.


----------



## Shade (Jan 4, 2010)

Updated with the proficiencies.

Here's the next one (or two)...



Echohawk said:


> The two boggarts seem like different creatures, both closely related to brownies. Maybe they could be converted as a boggart (#239 version) and a "fallen" boggart (#54 version)?
> 
> *Boggart *
> From Dragon #54, created by Roger E. Moore
> ...




We'll need to compare both to the official 3.5 boggart as well to determine if conversion is necessary.


----------



## freyar (Jan 4, 2010)

The fallen one is clearly different, and I think the other seems to have different SLAs/special attacks.  I'd be fine with a new conversion.  Actually, two new ones.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 5, 2010)

Shade said:


> Updated with the proficiencies.
> 
> Here's the next one (or two)...
> 
> We'll need to compare both to the official 3.5 boggart as well to determine if conversion is necessary.




Both of those are so different from the 3.5 version they'd need different stats. They're also very different from each other, so I think we'd better stat them up separately. Brian Corvello's 2HD version of the boggle is not that much different from the brownie, so we could just use the brownie with a few cosmetic and SLA tweaks.

Incidentally, that "official" 3.5 boggart is more-or-less a direct translation of the AD&D 1st edition boggart by the late lamented Gygax, which originally appeared in The Forgotten Temple of Tharizdun. The original version was stated to be an juvenile will-o'-wisp which had to kill sapient beings to grow to maturity, which is presumable were the 3.4 version's "Many scholars contend that the boggart is an immature form of the will-o'-wisp, and that seems so."comes from.


----------



## Shade (Jan 5, 2010)

The Tome of Horrors includes a conversion of the "larval wisp" version as well.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 5, 2010)

freyar said:


> The fallen one is clearly different, and I think the other seems to have different SLAs/special attacks.  I'd be fine with a new conversion.  Actually, two new ones.




Right, let's start on converting Roger E Moore's "Fallen Brownie" version...

Shall we call it a "Boggie", to distinguish from the official Boggart?

Since a Boggart/Boggie is supposed to be a corrupted form of a Brownie, and it has the same 1/2 HD and Tiny size as the 3.5 Brownie, it would seem to make sense to take the wizards.com stats of a Brownie and "Boggify" them:



> *Brownie
> **Tiny Fey
> **Hit Dice:* 1/2 d6+2 (3 hp)
> * Initiative:* +5
> ...



*The Boggie/Boggart is a lot stupider, with Intelligence Low to Average (or 5-10, median 7.5), so shall we halve the Brownie's Intelligence?

Moore's version has Dex 18, but so does the AD&D 1E version of the Brownie, if I remember correctly, so I think we'll keep the Dex at 20. That will let us retain the AC17 without having to give it another point from somewhere else.

Since these are a brutish, vicious form of Brownie, I suggest adding a point to its Strength.

That would give it the following stats:

Abilities: Str 6, Dex 20, Con 14, Int 7, Wis 13, Cha 13

Apart from that, the main difference appears to be Boggie don't have as many skills and abilities.

The Boggie will retain the Brownie's Evasion, Hide in Plain Sight and Uncanny Dodge, but should lose Calm Animals and Wild Empathy. The only special attack it has is assuming a terrifying form thrice a day. This could be a supernatural ability, but the text mentions "spell powers", suggesting a SLA. I suggest using the more powerful fear rather than the single-target cause fear, since this is the only real offensive ability the nasty little critter has. The brownie has some higher level SLA's like confusion and dimension door, so that seems reasonable to me.

If we give them Int 7 they'll only have half the skill points of the Int 14 Brownie, so we'll need to cut out a bunch of the Brownie's skills. They're supposed to be sneaky, so we should max-out Hide and Move Silently. I don't think they'll need the Brownie's Craft, Diplomacy and Sense motive skill ranks, so we can distribute the remaining 8 skill points between Climb, Escape Artist, Listen, Spot and Tumble. 2 points in Listen, Spot & Tumble, 1 in the other skills?Skills: Climb 1, Escape Artist 1, Hide 4, Listen 2, Move Silently 4, Spot 2, Tumble 2.​I'm thinking we should keep the Brownie's Agile feat and give the boggie a racial bonus to Spot and Listen (as it has "extraordinary senses") - say a +4 bonus?

With its size and Dexterity it will have the same +17 modifier to Hide as the Brownie, so I don't think it needs a racial bonus to its stealth skills.

Its Challenge Rating is probably less than the Brownie's 3. Maybe CR2?

The Treasure type looks alright, except it needs to drop the masterwork artisan's tools.

Apart from that, the other changes I can see are:

Organisation: Solitary
Alignment: Often chaotic neutral, never good*


----------



## freyar (Jan 6, 2010)

That seems like a pretty reasonable approach.  Makes me wonder if we can justify adding a little more, though.


----------



## Shade (Jan 6, 2010)

Maybe poison use and save bonus vs. poison, since they like to hang with assassins, and the original suggests really good saves?


----------



## freyar (Jan 6, 2010)

Good idea!  I'll get on board with that.


----------



## Shade (Jan 6, 2010)

Added to Homebrews.

Brownies speak Common, Halfling, and Sylvan, plus one other language (usually Elven or Gnome).   For the boggie, shall we limit it to Common and Sylvan?

Suggested racial bonus amount vs. poison?


----------



## demiurge1138 (Jan 7, 2010)

Common, Sylvan and Undercommon, perhaps?

Either +2 or +4 vs. poison.


----------



## freyar (Jan 7, 2010)

Undercommon is good.  +4 vs poison.


----------



## Shade (Jan 7, 2010)

Updated.

Finished with that variety?


----------



## freyar (Jan 8, 2010)

I guess!  That was fast!


----------



## Shade (Jan 11, 2010)

Here's the stats for the 2nd one for easier reference.

We'll need a name change for these, methinks.  Perhaps "bogey", like phantom aircraft, which I believe originated from bogeyman, which in turn may have derived from boggart?



> *Boggart*
> From Dragon #239, created by Brian Corvello
> 
> CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate/Urban
> ...


----------



## Cleon (Jan 11, 2010)

freyar said:


> I guess!  That was fast!




It certainly was!

Why is their an "Always" before the 3/day in the Spell-Like Abilities writeup?

Apart from that it looks good.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 11, 2010)

Shade said:


> Here's the stats for the 2nd one for easier reference.
> 
> We'll need a name change for these, methinks.  Perhaps "bogey", like phantom aircraft, which I believe originated from bogeyman, which in turn may have derived from boggart?




Regular D&D brownies live in woods, while these live indoors, so how about calling them "House Brownies" or "Domestic Boggarts"?

As for the stats, the *WOTC version of the brownie* seems a good place to start again.

I think we'd be best keeping the 3E brownie's 1/2 HD instead of the AD&D boggart's 1 HD, since an AD&D brownie had 2 HD.

The main difference between this 'Boggart' and the 'Wild Brownie' I can see are:

*Less Intelligent*: Very (11-12) versus the Brownie's Int 14. I'd drop the Int to 12.

*No Attacks!*: - the Wild Brownie has weapons, the House Boggart only use spells.

*Invisibility:* Use a pixie's _greater invisibility_?

*Spell Resistance:* 10% MR is equal to SR 8.

*SLAs:* The original has at-will _faerie fire, ventriloquism, dimension door, audible glamer, cantrip_, and _telekinesis _(50 lb..). The d_imension door, faerie fire, ghost sound_and _ventriloquism_ are pretty straightforward. The 50-pound telekinetic power could be _telekinesis _with caster level 2. The cantrip can be a handful of 0-level domestic spells (I fancy _dancing lights, mending, message, open/close_ and _prestidigitation_?)

*Dying Curse:* Anyone who murders a House Boggart suffers effects equal to breaking a _mark of justice_?

*Frightened by Noise:* Some kind of fear-based SQ, plus a save penalty to sonic attacks?


----------



## Shade (Jan 12, 2010)

Hmm...it looks like there's a 3.5 house brownie in Dragon #331.

Here are its stats for comparison:

Tiny Fey
Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 20 ft. (average)
Armor Class: 17 (+2 size, +4 Dex, +1 natural), touch 16, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-10
Attack: Tiny short sword +0 melee (1d3-2/19-20) or tiny shortbow +6 ranged (1d2/x3)
Full Attack: Tiny short sword +0 melee (1d3-2/19-20) or tiny shortbow +6 ranged (1d2/x3)
Space/Reach: 2-1/2 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 5/cold iron, low-light vision, spell resistance 11
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +6, Will +4
Abilities: Str 6, Dex 18, Con 11, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 14
Skills: Appraise +4, Bluff +4, Escape Artist +8, Handle Animal +4, Hide +16, Knowledge (local) +6, Knowledge (nature) +4, Listen +4*, Move Silently +8*, Open Lock +6, Spot +4*, Tumble +6
Feats: Dodge
Environment: Farm house, manor, temperate forests
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: No coins; 50% goods; 50% items
Alignment: Always chaotic good
Advancement: 1-5 HD (Tiny)
Level Adjustment: +4

Spell-Like Abilities: At will--alter self, calm animals, detect magic, open/close, pass without trace, prestidigitation, speak with animals; 3/day--alarm, animate rope, charm animal (DC 13), dancing lights, detect secret doors, entangle (DC 13), knock, locate object, mage hand. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

Skills: House brownies have a +6 racial bonus on Listen, Move Silently, and Spot checks within the house they've adopted as their own. These bonuses only function within one home that a brownie has resided in for more than 30 days.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 12, 2010)

Shade said:


> Hmm...it looks like there's a 3.5 house brownie in Dragon #331.
> 
> Here are its stats for comparison:




I like the racial skill bonuses when in a house they're attuned to.

It's quite a bit different from the house boggart we're working on. Damage reduction, chaotic alignment and weapons suggests a more combative creature.

So, shall we start haggling over the stats?

I'm presuming we're all fine with Tiny Fey.

Are we going for 1 Hit Dice like the AD&D original and the 3E House Brownie or 1/2 HD like the 3E Brownie?

Shall we use the 3E Brownie's ability scores with the Intelligence cut to 12 like I suggested?

Abilities: Str 5, Dex 20, Con 12, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 13 ?

I don't much like the idea of giving it a NA bonus. We could drop its Dex to 18 and have it wear leather armour, for an AC 18 to match the 3E house brownie, or give it a Wisdom-based dodge bonus like a monk for the same total AC.

Hmm, I like the Wisdom-based dodge bonus idea...


----------



## freyar (Jan 13, 2010)

I say 1/2 HD.  Tiny fey is certainly good.  Abilities are fine.  

Wis-based AC bonus (maybe not dodge but something other type like insight) sounds fine.


----------



## Shade (Jan 13, 2010)

Added to Homebrews.  

I used my suggested name "bogey" since the house brownie name was alway used by a 3x creature, and "domestic boggart" implies a house-dwelling evil will-o'-wisp larva.   If the majority of you prefer a different name, I'll be happy to change it.

I'd prefer to have something on the attack line, even if it's just an unarmed strike.   Brownies shun melee as well, yet they were given masterwork short swords and slings.

For the telekinesis, how about using something similar to the ghost?

Telekinesis (Su): A bogey can use telekinesis as a standard action (caster level 2nd or equal to the bogey's HD, whichever is higher). When a bogey uses this power, it must wait 1d4 rounds before using it again.

For the "frightened by noise", how about requiring a Fort save vs. damage dealt by sonic attacks or become frightened for x rounds?

I like the idea of working something akin to a mark of justice into the dying curse.



> Those who can communicate with boggarts find them a great source of information. Assume that any boggart is 50% likely to know any fact about the area in which they live, 80% if that knowledge involves other fairies.




Racial bonus on Knowledge (local) checks, and a slightly higher bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks?


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## Cleon (Jan 13, 2010)

freyar said:


> I say 1/2 HD.  Tiny fey is certainly good.  Abilities are fine.
> 
> Wis-based AC bonus (maybe not dodge but something other type like insight) sounds fine.




Insight's good, I'll go along with that.


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## freyar (Jan 14, 2010)

Agreed to masterwork short swords and telekinesis.  

For the "frightened by noise," just make it a Will save and I'm happy.

Agreed to those Knowledge bonuses.


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## Shade (Jan 15, 2010)

+4/+8 for the Knowledge bonuses?

Suggested duration for frightened condition when confronted by noise?

Looking at mark of justice, it essentially just repeats bestow curse when broken, except remove curse works only if its caster level is equal to or higher than your mark of justice caster level.   So something like this?

Dying Curse (Sp):  Any creature that lands the killing blow upon a bogey is subjected to a curse (as the bestow curse spell, Will DC 15, caster level xth).  The dying curse cannot be dispelled, but it can be removed with a break enchantment, limited wish, miracle, remove curse, or wish spell. Remove curse works only if its caster level is equal to or higher than the bogey's caster level.  The save DC is Charima-based.


----------



## freyar (Jan 15, 2010)

+4 for local and +8 for nature?  Sure.

Frightened 1d4 rounds?

Dying curse is fine, but which effect of bestow curse happens?  Or who chooses?


----------



## Shade (Jan 15, 2010)

1d4 rounds sounds appealing.

Determine randomly or DM's choice for the curse?  Or stick with the most plausible option (–4 penalty on attack rolls, saves, ability checks, and skill checks)?


----------



## freyar (Jan 15, 2010)

Le's just go with the -4 penalty.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 15, 2010)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews.
> 
> I used my suggested name "bogey" since the house brownie name was alway used by a 3x creature, and "domestic boggart" implies a house-dwelling evil will-o'-wisp larva.   If the majority of you prefer a different name, I'll be happy to change it.




I have no strong objection to 'Bogey'.



Shade said:


> I'd prefer to have something on the attack line, even if it's just an unarmed strike.   Brownies shun melee as well, yet they were given masterwork short swords and slings.




I don't mind giving it an attack entry, but could we give it something different from a shortsword as that's a Martial weapon and they look like they're unskilled in combat. How about a club or light mace, which have the same damage dice but are Simple weapons?



Shade said:


> For the telekinesis, how about using something similar to the ghost?
> 
> Telekinesis (Su): A bogey can use telekinesis as a standard action (caster level 2nd or equal to the bogey's HD, whichever is higher). When a bogey uses this power, it must wait 1d4 rounds before using it again.




That looks fine to me.



Shade said:


> For the "frightened by noise", how about requiring a Fort save vs. damage dealt by sonic attacks or become frightened for x rounds?




We could modify the "Fear of Flames" we gave our Plantfolk (Malatran Mold Man) conversion. Something like:*Fear of Noise (Ex):* A bogey has an irrational terror of loud sounds. It must make a Will save (DC equals the DC of the sonic effect or 10, whichever is higher) or be frightened for 1d4 rounds. Particularly loud and jarring mundane noise, like the pealing of an enormous bell, may have a DC higher than the default of 10. If a bogey is struck by a sonic fear attack it must make two saves versus fear, one for the special attack's fear and one for its own fear of noise, and the duration of the resulting fear effects stack.

*Example:* A bogey is affected by the bay of a Yeth Hound, a special attack that causes 2d4 rounds of the panicked condition. If the bogey fails its save versus the Bay it is panicked for 2d4 rounds, if it fails its save vs Fear of Noise it is frightened for 1d3 rounds, if it fails both saves it is panicked for 3d4 rounds.​


Shade said:


> Racial bonus on Knowledge (local) checks, and a slightly higher bonus on Knowledge (nature) checks?




These look like fairly domesticated sprites, so I'd just go for Knowledge (local).


----------



## Shade (Jan 15, 2010)

Nice recollection of "fear of flames".  

I think I prefer that to what we've got now.

As for weaponry, I think a club will suffice for the rare times it uses it.

I'm standing by Knowledge (nature), though, as that is the key skill for obatining information on fey.


----------



## freyar (Jan 15, 2010)

Let's go with light mace and give them Weapon Finesse as a bonus (as that's pretty standard to do).  Speaking of, the attack bonus should be -1 at present, right (+0 BAB, +2 size, -3 Str)?


----------



## Cleon (Jan 16, 2010)

freyar said:


> Let's go with light mace and give them Weapon Finesse as a bonus (as that's pretty standard to do).  Speaking of, the attack bonus should be -1 at present, right (+0 BAB, +2 size, -3 Str)?




Yes, I make it -1 attack too.

Since they're not supposed to be very good with weapons I'd rather not give them Weapon Finesse, which would up their mace attack to +7!


----------



## freyar (Jan 18, 2010)

That's fine, we can stick with clubs at -1.


----------



## Shade (Jan 19, 2010)

Updated.

Skills: 28

Feats: Dodge (B), 1 more

Caster level for SLAs and dying curse?


----------



## freyar (Jan 19, 2010)

Craft (any two), Know (local), Know (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot?  I figure greater invisibility removes most need for Hide.

Remove curse is a cleric 3 spell, so CL for the curse (and probably SLAs) should be higher than 5.  Maybe CL 8?


----------



## Cleon (Jan 21, 2010)

freyar said:


> Craft (any two), Know (local), Know (nature), Listen, Move Silently, Sense Motive, Spot?  I figure greater invisibility removes most need for Hide.




That skill-selection looks pretty much ideal to me. Can't see anything I'd change.

Will it have racial bonuses on any of them? Maybe a +2 to domestic Craft skills as brownies are good at handicrafts (and doesn't the official 3E version has a racial bonus on a Craft skill), plus a racial bonus of +4 or so on Move Silently?

EDIT: I suppose we could define what its Craft skills are, and say it only gets a racial bonus in those two skills. So, what do you fancy for Craft (X) and Craft (Y). Something like cooking and housekeeping?

EDITED EDIT: Come to think of it, Handle Animal might make a useful addition to the skills.



freyar said:


> Remove curse is a cleric 3 spell, so CL for the curse (and probably SLAs) should be higher than 5.  Maybe CL 8?




Back in post #510 I suggested _mark of justice_ as a model for the curse. That's a 5th level cleric spell, so I'd suggest Caster Level = Brownie's Hit Dice +8.


----------



## Shade (Jan 21, 2010)

Let's stick with the flat +2 bonus on Craft skills of the brownie, and limit the Move Silently bonus to within its adopted house as we decided to borrow from the house brownie upthread.

If we work in Handle Animal, pilfer a rank from each Knowledge skill, Listen, and Spot?

Updated.

Feats: Dodge (B), 1 more  (brownie has Agile, but that seems a poor fit here.  Perhaps Skill Focus [Craft]?)

Environment: Any building?

Organization: Solitary or festival (x-x hundred)  [x=50-500?]

Challenge Rating: 3?  (like a standard brownie)


----------



## Cleon (Jan 21, 2010)

Shade said:


> Let's stick with the flat +2 bonus on Craft skills of the brownie, and limit the Move Silently bonus to within its adopted house as we decided to borrow from the house brownie upthread.
> 
> If we work in Handle Animal, pilfer a rank from each Knowledge skill, Listen, and Spot?




If we do decide on Handle Animal I don't think they need many ranks in it, so just a point of each Knowledge skill for a token +3 Handle Animal may be enough.



Shade said:


> Feats: Dodge (B), 1 more (brownie has Agile, but that seems a poor fit here. Perhaps Skill Focus [Craft]?)




Their Craft is already reasonably high, so I was thinking Stealthy.



Shade said:


> Environment: Any building?
> 
> Organization: Solitary or festival (x-x hundred)  [x=50-500?]




Environment looks alright.

Five hundred seems a bit high, since festivals number in the "dozens--or even hundreds--" I would think 20-200 would be sufficient.

I'm also tempted to add an intermediate number for them - something like Family (2-5) - despite them being noted as usually being solitary.



Shade said:


> Challenge Rating: 3?  (like a standard brownie)




Seems rather high, they don't have much in the way of offensive abilities. CR2 would seem generous.


----------



## Shade (Jan 22, 2010)

Cleon said:


> If we do decide on Handle Animal I don't think they need many ranks in it, so just a point of each Knowledge skill for a token +3 Handle Animal may be enough.




Sounds good.



Cleon said:


> Their Craft is already reasonably high, so I was thinking Stealthy.




Stealthy is unnecessary, since they are invisible at will.  I suppose Skill Focus (Move Silently) would work.



Cleon said:


> Five hundred seems a bit high, since festivals number in the "dozens--or even hundreds--" I would think 20-200 would be sufficient.
> 
> I'm also tempted to add an intermediate number for them - something like Family (2-5) - despite them being noted as usually being solitary.




I can agree to all that.



Cleon said:


> Seems rather high, they don't have much in the way of offensive abilities. CR2 would seem generous.




They actually have *more* offensive abilities than the CR 3 brownie!


----------



## freyar (Jan 24, 2010)

This might be one of those weird CR situations.  I guess we may be stuck to CR 3.  Telekinesis isn't so wimpy, at least.


----------



## Cleon (Jan 24, 2010)

Shade said:


> Stealthy is unnecessary, since they are invisible at will.  I suppose Skill Focus (Move Silently) would work.




Well a +22 for being Stealthy and Invisible is two better than being plain Invisible, you know.

Focus on Move Silently would be good, or maybe Alertness.

Alternatively, how about Mobility? Since they live in building with people the may be good at running through spaces occupied by "big folk" without getting trampled.



Shade said:


> They actually have *more* offensive abilities than the CR 3 brownie!




Well brownies might be over-CRd too. I suppose it depends on how ruthlessly you exploit their _greater invisibility_. Used to its full they can be very frustrating monsters to deal with.


----------



## Shade (Jan 25, 2010)

I like Mobility.  

Updated.

Finished?


----------



## freyar (Jan 25, 2010)

I think it's ok.


----------



## Shade (Jan 26, 2010)

*Changeling*
*Faerie / Human (Adult) / Human (Child)*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Cerilian homes / Shadow World / Seelie Court
FREQUENCY: Very rare / Very rare / Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary / Solitary / Cluster
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Diurnal / Diurnal / Nocturnal
DIET: Any food but milk / Omnivore / Omnivore
INTELLIGENCE: High (13–14) / Average (8–10) / Average (8–10)
TREASURE: J, K (W) / W / J
ALIGNMENT: Neutral / Any nonevil  / Any nonevil
NO. APPEARING: 1 / 1 / 1–8
ARMOR CLASS: 4 / 8 (10) / 10
MOVEMENT: 12 / 12 / 12
HIT DICE: 4+2 / 2 / 1/2
THAC0: 17 / 20 / Nil (7 or younger) or 20 (8 or older)
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 / 1 / Nil or 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d4 or by spell / By weapon / Nil or 1d4
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spells / Nil / Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil / Nil / Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 10% / Nil / Nil
SIZE: S (2–4' tall) / M (5–6' tall) / S (2–4' tall)
MORALE: Steady (11–12) / Average (8–10) / Unsteady (5–7)
BLOODLINE: None / Varies or none / Varies or none
BLOOD ABILITIES: None / Varies or none / Varies or none
PERCEPTION/SEEMING: Extraordinary / Lesser  /  Middling/Slight / Slight/None
XP VALUE: 1,400 / 65 / 7

OVERVIEW
Changelings come in two types: human and faerie. Human changelings are Cerilian infants stolen by Shadow World faeries and raised in the Seelie Court. Faerie changelings are ancient faeries left in the stolen child’s place.

PHYSICAL DESCRIPTION
Human changelings look exactly like what they are: ordinary humans. They may be scions or commoners of any human race. When encountered, they may still be children or they may have grown to adulthood in the years since their kidnapping. 

Faerie changelings are very old seelie faeries (see separate entry) who look enough like humans to pass as one. Though as small as human children, they bear an ancient aura, and their eyes frequently betray the millennia of wisdom hidden behind them. When first substituted for a human child, they typically appear from mere days to two years old. If the changeling’s nature is not discovered, it uses its limited Seeming powers to alter its appearance as it “grows up.”

ROLE IN THE CAMPAIGN
Changelings—or those suspected of being changelings—can be worked into an adventure plot or continuing campaign in a number of ways. The discovery of a faerie changeling substituted for a Cerilian child could be a catalyst for adventure, particularly if the stolen child is of noble birth or heir to a domain. An unusual child (perhaps one that has grown to adulthood, or even a player character) might be suspected of being a changeling.

Or a party adventuring in the Shadow World could encounter humans stolen f rom Cerilia by the faeries. The characters might try to return the kidnapping victims to Cerilia. In the case of adult changelings, the victims might have no wish to leave the only home they have ever known, but could serve as valuable sources of inform ation about the Shadow World.

HABITAT/SOCIETY
The seelie faeries prize beauty in all its forms. This admiration extends, unfortunately, to human children. To the faeries, these children are like dolls: a passing amusement. The human lifespan—let alone childhood—is so short compared to the seelie existence, that the faeries don’t think of humans as equal beings, but as novelties. They see nothing wrong with plucking a child from its parents’ care for their own pleasure. To them, it is like taking a puppy home from the kennel. The faeries take relatively good care of their “pets.” The human changelings live among the Seelie Court until they reach that gawky adolescent stage when they aren’t so cute anymore. When they reach age 12 or 13, the faeries outfit them with arms and equipment and send them out into the world. Because of all they have learned among the faeries, most make it to adulthood, either somehow finding their way back to Cerilia or living in the Shadow World. Their time among the faeries generally teaches them enough about stealth and craftiness—or leaves them with enough tales to tell—to function as 2nd-level rogues.

Meanwhile, back in Cerilia, an ancient faerie switches places with the stolen child. Sometimes the  changeling is discovered immediately, in which case the faerie leaves (if it can) and returns to the Shadow World. If the parents don’t notice the switch, or observe oddities in their “child” but do not know how to account for them, the changeling remains as long as possible. Innately curious, the faerie takes the opportunity to learn as much as possible about humans during the masquerade. 

After (at most) six or seven years, however, the faerie changeling grows bored. One night it simply disappears, never to be seen by its “parents” again, and returns to the Seelie Court.

ECOLOGY
Like other members of the Seelie Court, faerie changelings eat nearly any food, but have an aversion to milk. Their refusal to drink milk—a staple of most human children ’s diets—leads to their discovery more often than any other clue. Sometimes, a perfectly ordinary human child is suspected of being a changeling simply because she or he doesn’t happen to like milk. 

VARIATIONS
In the very rarest of cases, the faeries may steal an elven child. Such kidnappings are highly unusual, as elves are more similar to faeries than humans are, and the differences a re what holds attraction for the seelie folk.

COMBAT AND OTHER ENCOUNTERS
The statistics have been divided into three columns to accommodate the different changeling races and ages. Human changelings aged 15 years and older are considered adults. Some combat statistics are given for human children ages 8 to 14, on the assumption that given their unusual upbringing they could attempt to defend themselves if circumstances force them to.

COMBAT
Faerie changelings retain the spellcasting abilities they had in the Shadow World (refer to “Faerie, Seelie” entry for complete details), and prefer to use these in combat instead of their daggers. They also retain their know alignmentability and remain immune to illusions/phantasms and charms, though upon entering Cerilia they lose the ability to turn invisible. As in the Shadow World, they are especially vulnerable to iron weapons (+3 damage bonus). 

Adult human changelings fight as 2nd-level rogues. They generally are equipped with a short sword and/or dagger, a parting gift from the faeries. There is a 75% chance that it is a magical (+1) weapon. There is an additional 45% chance that they also carry another magical item (DM’s choice; as it’s a gift from the faeries, the more outrageous, the better).

Child human changelings,valued and protected by the seelie faeries, rarely have occasion to enter combat When they do, it is only in self-defense. 

PEACEFUL ENOUNTERS
Travelers are unlikely to encounter child human changelings unless they actually find their way to the Seelie Court. Even there, the children will be well cloaked in the Seeming.

Adult human changelings retain their memories of time among the faeries, but cannot find their way back to the Seelie Cou rt. (Upon leaving, the faeries cast seelie spell of forgetting on them; see the “Faerie, Seelie” entry.) Their surreal upbringing forever alters them—even if returned to their own kind, they will never seem “quite right.”

Faerie changelings do their best to masquerade as Cerilian children for as long as possible. Once discovered, however, they flee the premises as soon as possible, often using the infamous, confusing faerietalk to create an opportunity for escape.

PERCEPTION AND/OR SEEMING
Faerie changelings retain the extraordinary perception they enjoy in the Shadow World, but the only Seeming they can manipulate is that which they carry out of the Shadow World, surrounding them like an aura. Human changelings learn how to manipulate and penetrate the Seeming from their faerie guardians.

Originally appeared in Blood Spawn (2000).


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## Cleon (Jan 26, 2010)

Shade said:


> I like Mobility.
> 
> Updated.
> 
> Finished?




Yup, looks good.


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## Cleon (Jan 26, 2010)

Shade said:


> *Changeling*
> *Faerie / Human (Adult) / Human (Child)*
> 
> *SNIP*
> ...




I think we need the "Seelie Faerie" entry too if we're to make much sense of this write-up.

But anyhow, we seem to be talking about three different creatures.

A geriatric Seelie Faerie pretending to be a human child.

Going by the stats these are 4 Hit Dice fey with minor magical powers, specifically some kind of illusion/shape-changing to appear human. Plus they'll need something to boost their AC to around 16 - maybe a Wisdom based insight bonus?

A Human child living among the faeries (which apparently results in it acquiring a few faerie "Seeming" abilities, whatever they might be).

A Human adult that's been abandoned by the faeries, but with retains the "Seeming" abilities and has a few parting gifts (masterwork shortsword and/or dagger?) It appears these are normally rogues.

I have a feeling that rather than treat these as regular humans (albeit ones with high Charisma since the faeries only abduct beautiful people) it may be better to do them as a "Changling" template?

Does anyone have the Seelie Faerie write-up? Without it we don't know what spells & powers they should have.


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## Shade (Jan 27, 2010)

Here's the original text of the seelie faerie:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/4651374-post261.html

And here's our conversion from last February:
Creature Catalog - Preview Creature


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## freyar (Jan 28, 2010)

I think there's very little to do with the human changelings, actually.  There are a couple of vague words that they might learn to manipulate the Seeming, which is code for having SLAs IIRC.  What we could do is write-up a faerie changeling (based on the seelie faeries we did) with an underbar about human changelings.  Frankly, for the human changelings, I'd just say that they have the minor fey bloodline from the SRD/UA and usually at least 2 levels of rogue by the time they are adults.  Perhaps a few exceptional ones get the intermediate or major bloodline.


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## Cleon (Jan 28, 2010)

Shade said:


> Here's the original text of the seelie faerie:
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/4651374-post261.html
> 
> And here's our conversion from last February:
> Creature Catalog - Preview Creature




Thanks Shade, I thought we would have these covered somewhere.

From a brief read through, it looks like we can do the Faerie Changeling as a modification of the "Faerie, Seelie, Small" since that's what it basically is.

Indeed, it doesn't appear to have many differences apart from a greater Intelligence (High versus Very to High) and some fluff about "millennia of wisdom".

So, increase their Intelligence by 2 and add a Knowledge skill?

Give them a bardic-lore type ability to represent their vast experience?

They've got a point higher Armour Class (give them an +1 Insight bonus?) 

Oh, and they're only armed with 1d4 damage faerie-sized blades (dagger to match the text or shortswords to match the damage?), but do not have longbows.


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## Cleon (Jan 28, 2010)

freyar said:


> I think there's very little to do with the human changelings, actually.  There are a couple of vague words that they might learn to manipulate the Seeming, which is code for having SLAs IIRC.  What we could do is write-up a faerie changeling (based on the seelie faeries we did) with an underbar about human changelings.  Frankly, for the human changelings, I'd just say that they have the minor fey bloodline from the SRD/UA and usually at least 2 levels of rogue by the time they are adults.  Perhaps a few exceptional ones get the intermediate or major bloodline.




Well a 2nd level Rogue with the Minor Fey Bloodline wouldn't get any adjustments from it. They wouldn't be able to get any of the SLAs the description mentions Human Changlings as possessing unless they were at least 4th level with the Major Bloodline, and the text appears to say that even infant-sized Human Changlings get minor "Seeming" powers.

To me it looks more like some kind of "Half-Fey" or "Faerie" template.


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## freyar (Jan 28, 2010)

Yes, I agree that we can build a faerie changeling from the seelie faerie "menu" and tweak it a bit.  I think they need to have all the human "appearance" traits for sure.

On the human changelings:  I think the important bits from the original stats (human adult and human child in bold) are


> SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spells / *Nil / Nil*
> SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil / *Nil / Nil*
> MAGIC RESISTANCE: 10% / *Nil / Nil*
> ...
> PERCEPTION/SEEMING: Extraordinary / Lesser / *Middling/Slight / Slight/None*



and (emphasis in bold)


> Human changelings look exactly like what they are: *ordinary humans*.
> ....
> Adult human changelings fight as 2nd-level rogues. They generally are equipped with a short sword and/or dagger, a parting gift from the faeries. There is a 75% chance that it is a magical (+1) weapon. There is an additional 45% chance that they also carry another magical item (DM’s choice; as it’s a gift from the faeries, the more outrageous, the better).
> 
> ...




I think the bit about 2nd level rogues is more 2e-style monster stats than 3e-style; I'd argue that we should let them take whatever class levels they like but state that they usually have at least a couple of levels in rogue (or maybe even bard, which also seems appropriate).  As for human changelings and seeming, I don't see anything that says they get specific SLAs.  In fact, it seems quite vague to me.  Give that they should be able to advance as normal characters, I think any bloodline strength could work, depending on DM's choice.  I'd be willing to say that most are Intermediate, but it really doesn't seem like a template so much as learning a few tricks.  I think the Hide bonus that the bloodlines get early on is a reasonable representation of the stealth they'd learn.  I really really don't see this as a template at all.


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## Cleon (Jan 29, 2010)

freyar said:


> I think the bit about 2nd level rogues is more 2e-style monster stats than 3e-style; I'd argue that we should let them take whatever class levels they like but state that they usually have at least a couple of levels in rogue (or maybe even bard, which also seems appropriate).  As for human changelings and seeming, I don't see anything that says they get specific SLAs.  In fact, it seems quite vague to me.  Give that they should be able to advance as normal characters, I think any bloodline strength could work, depending on DM's choice.  I'd be willing to say that most are Intermediate, but it really doesn't seem like a template so much as learning a few tricks.  I think the Hide bonus that the bloodlines get early on is a reasonable representation of the stealth they'd learn.  I really really don't see this as a template at all.




Hmmm...

Okay, it looks like you're right. Reading it again it seem I put to much strength in the "*Human changelings learn how to manipulate and penetrate the Seeming from their faerie guardians*" bit.

My original interpretation was this was some kind of racial or competence bonus on saves or skill-checks to resist or penetrate magic of the Illusion or Enchantment school, and maybe an at-will power to _detect invisible_.

However, it could just reflect a Feat preference - e.g. Iron Will to resist mind-bending magic, Spell Focus (lllusion) or Spell Focus (Enchantment) for those Human Changlings that learn magic.


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## freyar (Jan 29, 2010)

Glad we agree now.


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## Cleon (Feb 2, 2010)

So what about the Faerie Changling, any thoughts about my proposal to modify the ENworld Small Seelie Faerie?



Cleon said:


> So, increase their Intelligence by 2 and add a Knowledge skill?
> 
> Give them a bardic-lore type ability to represent their vast experience?
> 
> ...


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## freyar (Feb 3, 2010)

Those suggestions seem good to me, sure.


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## Shade (Feb 3, 2010)

Added to Homebrews.

Give 'em the "Deceiver" theme from the seelie faerie menu to determine skills, feats, and SLAs?


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## freyar (Feb 3, 2010)

Sounds reasonable to me.


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## Shade (Feb 3, 2010)

*Spell-Like Abilities: *Always active—detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, detect law; at will—invisibility (self only). 

A seelie faerie gains additional spell-like abilities based upon its theme (deceiver, helper, and so forth). The seelie faerie gains two spell-like abilities at Diminutive size, and two additional spell-like abilities for each size category greater. Thus, a Medium deceiver gains the abilities of Small, Tiny, and Diminutive deceivers. 

Caster level for all spell-like abilities equals faerie's Hit Dice. The save DCs are Charisma-based. 

Deceivers choose from the following list: 
Diminutive: dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation 
Tiny: magic aura, silent image, ventriloquism 
Small: minor image, mirror image, misdirection, phantom trap 
Medium: hallucinatory terrain, major image, secret page 
Large: illusory wall, mirage arcana, persistent image 
Huge: maze, mislead, project image, veil 

*Skills:* A seelie faerie has skills common to all of its kind, in addition to a number of skills based on its theme. The number of additional skills and associated ranks are listed in its statistics block. When crafting a seelie faerie, assign the additional skills and ranks based on the following themes: 

Deceiver: Bluff, Disguise, Forgery, Perform (comedy), Sense Motive 

*Feats: *A seelie faerie has feats common to all of its kind, in addition to a number of feats based on its theme. When crafting a seelie faerie, select feats from the common list and the list based on its theme: 

Common: Alertness, Dodge, Empower Spell-Like Ability, Quicken Spell-Like Ability, Skill Focus, Weapon Finesse (Tiny, Small, and Medium only) 

Deceiver: Deceitful, Persuasive, Point Blank Shot, Stealthy


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## freyar (Feb 4, 2010)

Let's go with prestidigitation, dancing lights, magic aura, ventriloquism, minor image, and misdirection.  Just feels right.  Anyone have any other thoughts on SLAs?


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## Cleon (Feb 4, 2010)

freyar said:


> Let's go with prestidigitation, dancing lights, magic aura, ventriloquism, minor image, and misdirection.  Just feels right.  Anyone have any other thoughts on SLAs?




Yup, I like that selection too.

As for other SLAs, it will need some sort of disguise self or change self ability to look like a human infant.

As for its feats, I was thinking Persuasive and Spell Focus (Illusion).


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## Shade (Feb 4, 2010)

Yep, I like that SLA selection too.

Persuasive works, but let's avoid the whole "can Spell Focus apply to SLAs" debate again.  



> Faerie changelings are very old seelie faeries (see separate entry) who look enough like humans to pass as one. Though as small as human children, they bear an ancient aura, and their eyes frequently betray the millennia of wisdom hidden behind them. When first substituted for a human child, they typically appear from mere days to two years old. If the changeling’s nature is not discovered, it uses its limited Seeming powers to alter its appearance as it “grows up.”




It sounds like the faeries already look like human children, but could benefit from a SLA/Su ability to appear to age.  Perhaps a racial bonus on Disguise checks to act as a human child?



> They also retain their know alignmentability and remain immune to illusions/phantasms and charms, *though upon entering Cerilia they lose the ability to turn invisible*.




Drop the invisibility SLA?


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## freyar (Feb 4, 2010)

I think a racial bonus to Disguise would work.  A really hefty one, too.

Yes, let's drop invisibility.


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## Cleon (Feb 5, 2010)

Shade said:


> Yep, I like that SLA selection too.
> 
> Persuasive works, but let's avoid the whole "can Spell Focus apply to SLAs" debate again.




I must have missed that argument.

How about Persuasive and Weapon Finesse then?

Finnesse would change their shortsword attack from a +1 to a +6.

Oh, speaking of its shortsword - shouldn't it be masterwork?



Shade said:


> It sounds like the faeries already look like human children, but could benefit from a SLA/Su ability to appear to age.  Perhaps a racial bonus on Disguise checks to act as a human child?




I thought the tradition was they looked like very small extravagantly old men (or women, presumably) and where magically disguised as human infants.



Shade said:


> Drop the invisibility SLA?




Agreed.


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## freyar (Feb 8, 2010)

Persuasive and Weapon Finesse are fine by me.  Masterwork makes sense for the sword, too.

As for the appearance, I could go either way, but I do think they need some kind of magical disguise ability in either case, along with a high racial bonus.


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## Shade (Feb 9, 2010)

Both is fine.  We can note in the flavor text the presence of both the traditional "old man posing as child" version, and the one spelled out in the original text of a child-looking faerie with an ancient aura and eyes belying wisdom.

Updated.

+10 racial bonus on the Disguise check?

Disguise self (as human or elven child only) at will?


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## freyar (Feb 9, 2010)

Why not make it constant disguise self, suppressable or renewable as a free action?


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## Shade (Feb 11, 2010)

Sure, that works for me.  Similar to the pixie's greater invisibility, but in this case, an ongoing disguise.

Disguise Self (Su): A faerie changeling is supernaturally glamered to appear as a humanoid child, as if using a disguise self spell. This ability is constant, but the changeling can suppress or resume it as a free action.


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## Cleon (Feb 11, 2010)

Shade said:


> Sure, that works for me.  Similar to the pixie's greater invisibility, but in this case, an ongoing disguise.
> 
> Disguise Self (Su): A faerie changeling is supernaturally glamered to appear as a humanoid child, as if using a disguise self spell. This ability is constant, but the changeling can suppress or resume it as a free action.




Looks good.


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2010)

Yup, that's good.  And still the +10 racial bonus?


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## Shade (Feb 12, 2010)

That would probably be too much, so I'm willing to let it go.

Updated.

A faerie changeling is 2 to 4 feet tall and weighs 20 to 50 pounds?

Faerie changelings speak Common and Sylvan.   Those who impersonate elven children also speak Elven?


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2010)

That all sounds fine.

I think the descriptive text for the spell of forgetting might need changing to account for the fact that you don't run into these at the seelie court.

Human changelings as an underbar?


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## Cleon (Feb 12, 2010)

Shade said:


> That would probably be too much, so I'm willing to let it go.




I agree. No need to give let it double up on a +10 Disguise bonus, the disguise self ability is enough.



Shade said:


> A faerie changeling is 2 to 4 feet tall and weighs 20 to 50 pounds?




Those weights are OK by me.



Shade said:


> Faerie changelings speak Common and Sylvan.   Those who impersonate elven children also speak Elven?




Isn't that needlessly fiddly - just have them all speak Common, Elven and Sylvan?


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## Cleon (Feb 13, 2010)

freyar said:


> That all sounds fine.
> 
> I think the descriptive text for the spell of forgetting might need changing to account for the fact that you don't run into these at the seelie court.
> 
> Human changelings as an underbar?




Maybe we should just cut out the spell of forgetting.

Re-reading the original description, there's no mention of the faerie changeling using it, instead the faerie court uses it to prevent human changelings remembering their time "away with the faeries."

There is mention of faerie changelings "using the infamous, confusing faerietalk", which I suppose we might need to think about - some kind of sonic language-dependent confusion effect? Or just a _lesser confusion _SLA?


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## freyar (Feb 13, 2010)

I was pondering cutting the spell of forgetting myself.

I think the confusing faerietalk is just flavor text, since I don't recall anything about that with the seelie faeries themselves.


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## Shade (Feb 16, 2010)

Agreed.  Let's drop the spell of forgetting and ignore the faerietalk.

Updated.

Shall we work on the human changelings underbar?


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## freyar (Feb 17, 2010)

Upthread, I argued that they should just have the fey bloodline, probably minor or intermediate.


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## Shade (Feb 17, 2010)

Updated.


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## Cleon (Feb 17, 2010)

Shade said:


> Updated.




Looking good. I can't see anything left to do, so shall we declare it finished?

EDIT: I wrote to soon. In its Vulnerability to Salt it says a seelie faerie struck by salt "becomes visible and cannot use its invisibilty [sic] spell-like ability for 1d4 minutes".

Perfectly reasonable - *except it doesn't have invisibility as a spell-like ability*.

Then I looked at the SLAs and they're "always active" rather than at-will or X/day. If it's constantly surrounded by _dancing lights, minor images, misdirections, prestidigitation_ and _ventriloquism_ effects it's a wonder they avoid suspicion!

Make all the SLAs at-will?

Add _invisibility_ 3/day or at-will or modify the vulnerability to salt?


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## Shade (Feb 18, 2010)

Good catches.  Detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, and detect law should always be active, while the other SLAs should be 1/day.  We can probably just drop the vulnerability to salt since they lack the invisibility SLA.

Updated.


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## Cleon (Feb 19, 2010)

Shade said:


> Good catches.  Detect chaos, detect evil, detect good, and detect law should always be active, while the other SLAs should be 1/day.  We can probably just drop the vulnerability to salt since they lack the invisibility SLA.
> 
> Updated.




1/day is fine, although since none of its SLA are exactly earth-shattering I'd have been OK with making them 3/day.

And with that I think the Faerie Changeling is finished (at long last!).


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## freyar (Feb 21, 2010)

Looks good!


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## Shade (Mar 15, 2010)

Echohawk said:
			
		

> At long last, here is most of the sidhe entry from "Tall Tales of the Wee Folk". I've omitted the two tables, but will type them in if they seem pertinent to the conversion.




*Sidhe*

The word "sidhe," pronounced "shee," is in fact a general term for a fairy, so technically it could be correctly used to describe any of the other fairy races. But in this supplement we mean it in a more specific sense, excluding the other fairy races; though, as will be seen, it still applies to a very diverse group. In a sense, the sidhe are the "generic" fairies of legend; we are describing them in such a way that many fairies from literature and folklore could be described as sidhe.

Following is a description for "normal monster" sidhe.

---
Sidhe
Armor Class: Varies
Save As: Normal Man
Hit Dice: 1/2*
Morale: 7
Move: 120' (40')
Treasure Type: A
Attacks: 1
Alignment: Any
Damage: By weapon type
XP Value: 7
No. Appearing: 1-4 (1-100)

Were it not for certain peculiar traits and abilities, many sidhe might be indistinguishable from humans and deem-humans; they are at least as varied in appearance and temperament. Most appear to be humans, perhaps with slightly elfin features; others resemble the other deem-human races: dwarves, elves, gnomes, halflings; and they may plausibly pass through all those societies without being recognized as anything different.
---

There are three characteristics that definitely distinguish the sidhe from humans and demi-humans: they are capable of becoming invisible to mortals at will; they are capable of breathing water as easily as air; and iron is poisonous to them. A more subtle difference, related to the last one, is that their blood is not so deep a red as that of other races, since it lacks iron.
Iron's poisonous nature is not quick-acting; for example, iron weapons do not cause sidhe additional damage. But long-term contact with the metal will slowly and permanently drain a sidhe's vitality (hit points and ability scores); ingested iron will do the same, but some damage can be reversed if the substance can be removed from the sidhe's system. In any case, sidhe will never have weapons, armor, tools, or anything else fashioned of this metal; they use instead various stones (flint, obsidian, etc.), and nonferrous metals and alloys (bronze, silver, gold, mithril, etc.). Note that most powerfully enchanted weapons (+3 or more) are made of alloys containing little or no iron, and may thus be used by sidhe.

Some sages have said, that as humans are to demi-humans, so the sidhe are to the rest of fairykind. Like humans, the sidhe are flexible. They can choose to combine either fighting or thieving skills with magic use; however, like other fairies, they can never become clerics. But again like humans, their general adaptability makes them natural leaders; the high king of fairies has been sidhe more often than of any other race.
Normal sidhe, like normal humans, have 1/2 Hit Die and few special abilities. Higher-level sidhe have more Hit Dice, and accordingly have higher-level abilities as magic-user and either fighter or thief. Those with fighting and magic abilities are warrior sidhe; those with thieving skills and magic are rogue sidhe.
Among large groups of normal sidhe, there will be some extraordinary individuals, possibly acting as leaders. Treat them as humans, except with regard to the differences just described. Exceptional individuals are totaled cumulatively. For every 10 sidhe, there will be a 2nd-level warrior sidhe (comparable to a 2nd-level elf), and a 50% chance of a rogue sidhe of 1st-3rd level. For every 25 sidhe, there will be a warrior sidhe of 3rd-6th level (1d4+2). Groups of 50 have either a warrior sidhe (33%) of 7th-12th level (1d6+6), or a rogue sidhe (33%) of 5th-12th level (1d8+4), or both (34%). Groups of 100 will almost always (95%) be led by a warrior or rogue sidhe (equal chances) of not less than 10th level.
The sidhe may be found anywhere at all, but they prefer to make their homes in beautiful, isolated, peaceful, natural locales, especially near woodlands. Sometimes they build grand palaces in underground caverns or underwater grottoes. Lairs are always well hidden and likely disguised, possibly by magic. Wandering is a favorite pursuit of the sidhe; while invisible to mortals, they love to travel around, playing jokes, assisting those in need, and generally looking for adventure. They are sometimes willing to befriend humans and demi-humans for long periods of time; it is even known for one of these fairies to marry into their societies. Many folk tales concern such fairies and their mortal families; inevitably the sidhe moves on, since his lifespan might cover millenia, and even an elven spouse would die of old age in a relatively short time.
All sidhe beyond normal monster level have fairy spellcasting ability, combined with either fighting or thieving skills; they may therefore be warrior sidhe or rogue sidhe. Most are the former; to be a rogue sidhe, a minimum Dexterity of 8 is required.
Both class combinations progress on the same level advancement table; but while warrior sidhe have eight-sided Hit Dice, those of the rogue sidhe are four-sided.

Table 15: Sidhe Level Advancement & Hit Dice
[not included, please yell if you need this]

No sidhe may use weapons or armor fashioned of iron; see the later section on "Equipment" for information on non-ferrous equipment. Otherwise, warrior sidhe can use any weapons or armor open to fighters, and rogue sidhe may use any open to thieves. Sidhe may use any magic item permitted to magic-users and either fighters or thieves, according to class combination.
Warrior sidhe make Saving Throws as fighters: and rogue sidhe as thieves, of the same level.

*Spellcasting*
Sidhe of 1st level and above have spellcasting ability, as shown on Table 16 below. As can be seen, their spellcasting ability is not equal to that of human magic-users, elves, or sprites, neither in terms of total spells nor speed of spell level mastery.
Spells are chosen from the list of fairy-charms (see page 41).

Table 16: Sidhe Spell Ability
[not included, please yell if you need this]
[list of fairy-charms from page 41 also not included]

Recommended Spell List Adjustment: The sidhe are particularly renowned shapechangers; for this reason, they may take polymorph self as a second-level spell. Also, the spell lasts until the sidhe wills to return to his old shape, is killed, or until a dispel magic spell successfully counters it.

*Other Special Abilities*
Warrior sidhe can make multiple attacks at higher levels, like fighters.
Rogue sidhe have the special skills of thieves of equal level (lockpicking, backstabbing, etc.).
All sidhe may become invisible to mortals; and, since they often have underwater homes, they breathe water and air with equal facility.

Originally appeared in PC1 - Tall Tales of the Wee Folk (1989).


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## Cleon (Mar 16, 2010)

Are we converting these next?

Apart from invisibility, water-breathing and their allergy to iron these folk seem to be little different from 1st level commoners for "regular sidhe" or sorcerer/fighters ("warriors") and sorcerer/rogues for higher-ranking sidhe.


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## Shade (Mar 17, 2010)

Cleon said:


> Are we converting these next?




Indeed!



Cleon said:


> Apart from invisibility, water-breathing and their allergy to iron these folk seem to be little different from 1st level commoners for "regular sidhe" or sorcerer/fighters ("warriors") and sorcerer/rogues for higher-ranking sidhe.




So template (like half-fey) or new race (like feytouched)?


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## freyar (Mar 17, 2010)

Boy, the spellcasting bit is annoying; it reads to me like a bloodline, but otherwise I'd think these should be a new fey monster/race.


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## Shade (Mar 17, 2010)

How about we make 'em a new race, and note that they gain the bloodline feats as bonus feats?


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## Cleon (Mar 17, 2010)

I'd be tempted to make them a race with innate sorcerer spell-casting powers based on their HD that can only advance in non-spell casting character classes. (so no Sidhe sorcerer/sorcerers!)

e.g. a Sidhe fighter X would also cast spells as a sorcerer X, but won't have any of the sorcerer's bonus goodies.


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## Shade (Mar 18, 2010)

That sounds a bit too exception-based for my tastes.


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## freyar (Mar 19, 2010)

That does sound a bit complicated.

Are there any bloodline feats in the online SRDs?


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## Cleon (Mar 19, 2010)

Shade said:


> That sounds a bit too exception-based for my tastes.




You say that like it's a bad thing.

OK then, in that case shall we just make them a race with a few SLA. Perhaps _water breathing_ and _invisibility_ as at-wills and ALL the tricks from the fey major bloodline?

Then we could do a sample Sidhe characters with a 1st level Commoner Sidhe and a couple of highish level (9th?) Leader Sidhe with an appropriate selection of classes.

How about focusing on a prestige class. I'm thinking Arcane Archer for the "Warrior", Arcane Trickster for the "Rogue".

If we give them _water breathing_ as a SLA, does that satisfy the 3rd level spell prereq of Arcane Trickster? If it does, they'd only need to be a Rogue 4/sorcerer 1 to qualify for Arcane Trickster, instead of the usual rogue 4/sorcerer 6.


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## freyar (Mar 22, 2010)

Oof, I can't remember if SLAs count for spell prereqs.   But I might be persuaded to go with that description of the race (we can haggle over whether to include all the tricks from the bloodline or not).  I'm not sure if we need 4 samples, though.


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## Shade (Mar 22, 2010)

SLAs do not meet prereqs, but the point is moot anyway since the prestige class in question is only open to elves and half-elves.  

The fey bloodline is in the SRD here.  I think automatically granting one of those bloodlines would be simpler and more elegant than crafting a whole new SLA progression.  Anyone else?


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## freyar (Mar 23, 2010)

Yes, probably granting the major bloodline makes sense.  And we just tack on a few extra things.


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## Shade (Mar 26, 2010)

OK, so starting ability score adjustments?   +2 Dex, +2 Cha?


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## freyar (Mar 26, 2010)

Works for me.  A thought on the bloodline: perhaps they get the bloodline but don't have to pay bloodline levels?


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## Shade (Mar 26, 2010)

That could work, as long as we factor that into the level adjustment.


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## freyar (Mar 29, 2010)

Hmm, then it's not quite free.  Might as well just include the bloodline levels in that case, right?


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## Shade (Apr 5, 2010)

I suppose so.

This is one of those rare creatures that doesn't really convert well to 3e, eh?


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## freyar (Apr 6, 2010)

Well, looking back, I have another idea, since I don't know what the "fairy charms" are.  Since they already have the druid-like restriction against metal, what if they get innate druid casting?  I could see either having it scale with HD (including class HD) or not.


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## Shade (Apr 6, 2010)

We're looping back to the original problem, though.  Do any "class levels only" races have innate spellcasting?   I can't think of any.

Taking your idea a step further, though, we could have them treated as +1 caster level when casting druid spells, or some other benefit that doesn't immediately grant them casting levels.


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## freyar (Apr 6, 2010)

Well, there's a first time for everything! 

Speaking of precedents, are there any fey without even a fractional racial HD?  There's conceivably wiggle room in the original text to give them 1/2 HD.


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## Shade (Apr 7, 2010)

Jaebrin (MMV) = class levels only.

Gruwaar (Dragon Magazine #317) = class levels only.

Killoren (Races of the Wild) = class levels only.


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## freyar (Apr 7, 2010)

Tell you what; I'm inclined to say they get 1/2 HD racial and innate spellcasting as a 1st level druid (maybe advancing with HD).  Advancement by character class only.  What do you think?


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## Shade (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm still not real comfortable for giving a creature intended as a playable race innate spellcasting, but I suppose a single level of druidic casting would be OK.  Essentially, they would always be at least a 1st-level druid, and those that take levels in druid would always be one level ahead of their peers.

This would, of course, be offset by a +1 level adjustment.


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## freyar (Apr 8, 2010)

I'm not entirely comfortable with it, either, but the other option is requiring bloodline levels.  I'm not sure how else to capture the original intent in anything like a close approximation.


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## Shade (Apr 8, 2010)

Let's try it and see how it plays out.



> There are three characteristics that definitely distinguish the sidhe from humans and demi-humans: they are capable of becoming invisible to mortals at will; they are capable of breathing water as easily as air; and iron is poisonous to them.






> Iron's poisonous nature is not quick-acting; for example, iron weapons do not cause sidhe additional damage. But long-term contact with the metal will slowly and permanently drain a sidhe's vitality (hit points and ability scores); ingested iron will do the same, but some damage can be reversed if the substance can be removed from the sidhe's system. In any case, sidhe will never have weapons, armor, tools, or anything else fashioned of this metal; they use instead various stones (flint, obsidian, etc.), and nonferrous metals and alloys (bronze, silver, gold, mithril, etc.). Note that most powerfully enchanted weapons (+3 or more) are made of alloys containing little or no iron, and may thus be used by sidhe.






> All sidhe may become invisible to mortals; and, since they often have underwater homes, they breathe water and air with equal facility.




So, racial attributes are...

+2 Dex, +2 Cha
1 level of druidic spellcasting
Cannot use iron armor, weapons, or gear
Invisibility SLA
Water breating (Ex ability like a black dragon?)

Look at this again, though...



> Normal sidhe, like normal humans, have 1/2 Hit Die and few special abilities. Higher-level sidhe have more Hit Dice, and accordingly have higher-level abilities as magic-user and either fighter or thief. Those with fighting and magic abilities are warrior sidhe; those with thieving skills and magic are rogue sidhe.






> Sidhe of 1st level and above have spellcasting ability, as shown on Table 16 below. As can be seen, their spellcasting ability is not equal to that of human magic-users, elves, or sprites, neither in terms of total spells nor speed of spell level mastery.
> Spells are chosen from the list of fairy-charms (see page 41).




It almost sounds to me like we can drop the spellcasting, and just make their favored class druid.   It seems they were just trying to restrict the spells of those that pursued magical paths to better fit a faerie theme.  Thoughts?


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## freyar (Apr 9, 2010)

I could be persuaded of that, though there was the bit about even fighters getting spells.  Sigh.  Sure, let's drop the spellcasting and follow your suggestion.


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## Shade (Apr 9, 2010)

Added to Homebrews.

We can do a sample fighter/wizard and druid as well, if you'd like.


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## freyar (Apr 10, 2010)

Max +1 natural armor, I think.

Maybe a racial bonus on Survival or Hide/Move Silently.  Not sure we need any though.

Those samples would be fine.  We might instead of the fighter/wizard do a fighter with the major fey bloodline.  And note in the flavor that they often take the bloodline.


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## Shade (Apr 12, 2010)

Sounds good.  We can just leave off the skill bonuses...I think they're good enough.

Attack: Weapon +2 melee (xdx+1) or weapon +3 ranged (xdx)
Full Attack: Weapon +2 melee (xdx+1) or weapon +3 ranged (xdx)

Skills: 4
Handle Animal and/or Ride?

Feats: 1
Weapon Focus or Point Blank Shot?

Environment: Any?



> For every 10 sidhe, there will be a 2nd-level warrior sidhe (comparable to a 2nd-level elf), and a 50% chance of a rogue sidhe of 1st-3rd level. For every 25 sidhe, there will be a warrior sidhe of 3rd-6th level (1d4+2). Groups of 50 have either a warrior sidhe (33%) of 7th-12th level (1d6+6), or a rogue sidhe (33%) of 5th-12th level (1d8+4), or both (34%). Groups of 100 will almost always (95%) be led by a warrior or rogue sidhe (equal chances) of not less than 10th level.




Modifying from the elf...

Organization: Squad (2–4), company (11–20 plus 2 3rd-level sergeants and 1 leader of 3rd–6th level), or band (30–100 plus 20% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 10 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, 3 7th-level captains, and 1 10th-level leader)

Level Adjustment: +2?  They get an at-will SLA, natural armor, and unbalanced ability scores, but it's offset slightly by not being able to use iron items.

Sidhe range from 5 to 6-1/2 feet in height, weighing from x to x pounds.

Sidhe speak Sylvan and x.


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## freyar (Apr 12, 2010)

Shortbow for ranged, maybe quarterstaff for melee?
Handle Animal.
Point Blank Shot.
Env, org, LA seems good.
human weight range, so 80-300 lb?
Common to go with Sylvan.


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## Shade (Apr 14, 2010)

Updated.

Shall we work on the fighter with the major fey bloodline?


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## freyar (Apr 15, 2010)

Sure thing!  8th level?  Maybe 10th if we want the extra SLA?


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## Shade (Apr 15, 2010)

Let's go 10th.  That way the DM has a sample leader statted up.


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## freyar (Apr 15, 2010)

Sounds good.  Ranged plus finessable weapon sound like the right way to go to you also?


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## Shade (Apr 15, 2010)

Yessir!  Finessable and non-iron, of course.


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## freyar (Apr 16, 2010)

Hmm, kind of low on those.  Nunchaku, maybe?  I have this annoying idea that there's some kind of wood that can be used to replace metal, but it must be from a splat book or something noncore.


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## Shade (Apr 16, 2010)

Nunchaku seem odd for this.

I know the material of which you speak, but I can't locate it at the moment.  It's non-core, anyway, so let's just find something that "plays by the rules".  

It's also too bad the rules for primitive weapons (stone, flint, obsidian, etc.) aren't in the SRD.  

How about a whip?


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## freyar (Apr 17, 2010)

Yeah, I was kind of grasping at straws.  Whips don't seem quite right either.

You know, I'm just thinking finesse is the wrong way to go. What about going for a quarterstaff with TWF, TWD, and Imp TWF?  (Too bad TW Rend is epic in the SRD unlike PHB2; it would be nice here.)  

Should definitely go with dragonhide armor, I think.


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## Shade (Apr 19, 2010)

Yeah, good call!

I'll try to work up a Homebrews for 'em soon.


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## freyar (Apr 19, 2010)

Ok, gets 4 feats and 6 fighter bonus feats?  Whew.  We have TWF, TW Defense, and Imp TWF already.  We can also take up to 5 more feats to get Whirlwind Attack (prereqs Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack).  Something like Imp Crit, Weapon Focus, or Weapon Specialization might be good, too.

I guess we should make sure abilities are high enough.  How about
Str 16 = 15 + 1 at 4th
Dex 17 = 14+2 racial + 1 at 8th
Con 12
Int 13
Wis 10
Cha 10 = 8+2
?


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## Shade (Apr 20, 2010)

That looks pretty good!   We'll also have the ability score boosts from the bloodline, and can always supplement with magic items.

Looking over bloodlines, am I understanding this correctly?   Our 10th-level fighter is essentially a 13th-level character, but gains no BAB, saves, or fighter bonus feats for those levels sacrificed for the bloodline?


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## freyar (Apr 20, 2010)

I believe our fighter would only need to take two levels of bloodline.  He'd be character level 10 but ECL 12 if we count the bloodline levels as LA.  Also no HD increases for the bloodline levels.


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## Shade (Apr 20, 2010)

So...should we simply stat up our 10th-level fighter, and then slap the greater bloodline on top of it?


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## freyar (Apr 21, 2010)

That sounds right.  We've got the weapons (quarterstaff and I fancy longbow, maybe composite) and feats I think, so what else do we need?  I'd favor dragonhide breastplate for armor, and I guess we can talk about magical enhancements for all the equipment.  Then just skills?


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## Shade (Apr 21, 2010)

Added what we've got to the bottom of the sidhe entry.

I haven't tacked on the bloodline yet.


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## freyar (Apr 21, 2010)

Looks good so far.  

Feats: Two-Weapon Fighting, Dodge, Two-Weapon Defense, Combat Expertise, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (quarterstaff), Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Critical (quarterstaff), Whirlwind Attack.

I checked that those satisfy prereqs (in the order listed).  I could see swapping WF or Imp Crit for some ranged feats if you prefer.

Skills: Max Climb, Handle Animal, and maybe Swim or Jump?  Ride could work but I'm not sure if it seems quite appropriate for a fey.


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## Shade (Apr 22, 2010)

Yeah, let's mix in some ranged feats, particularly Rapid Shot.

Updated.

If I'm reading the greater fey bloodline properly, it should get:

+2 Hide and Move Silently
+1 Cha
+1 Dex
Alertness (B), Iron Will (B)
Low-light vision
Fey affinity +2
SLAs:  charm person 1/day; speak with animals 1/day

Is tha correct?

If so, perhaps put some cross-class skills into Hide and Move Silently as well?


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## freyar (Apr 22, 2010)

That looks right to me (not that low-light vision will add much ).  I could see going max Handle Animal, max cross-class into Hide, Move Silently, and a couple left over ranks into something like Climb.


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## Shade (Apr 22, 2010)

Updated.


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## Cleon (Apr 23, 2010)

I apologize for not contributing to this thread, but I was finding this "non sorcerer dual-casting" approach a bit dull, so left you to it.


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## freyar (Apr 26, 2010)

Shade said:


> Updated.




Looks good, though I'm a tad confused why the CR is 12 and not 10?  Is that due to the bloodline levels contributing to ECL and therefore CR?



Cleon said:


> I apologize for not contributing to this thread, but I was finding this "non sorcerer dual-casting" approach a bit dull, so left you to it.




  No problem.  It just seemed awkward to do that.


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## Shade (Apr 26, 2010)

freyar said:


> Looks good, though I'm a tad confused why the CR is 12 and not 10?  Is that due to the bloodline levels contributing to ECL and therefore CR?




Good question!    I must've factored in the LA for reasons unknown.

Fixed.  I believe all that's left is magical gear.


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## freyar (Apr 26, 2010)

What seems reasonable for enhancements?  +1/+1 on the quarterstaff and +2 on armor or so?


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## Shade (Apr 26, 2010)

I think so.  Maybe an ability-enhancing item or two as well.


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## freyar (Apr 27, 2010)

Ok, let's start with the weapon and armor.  Let's go with +1 light fortification dragonhide armor.  Then take a +1/+1 quarterstaff.

Bracers of armor +1 and an amulet of health +2 sound reasonable?

According to the MIC, we've still got room for a "5th level item" which is 1300-1800 gp (using the quick NPC rules).  How about an efficient quiver?  And throw in masterwork on the bow?


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## Shade (Apr 27, 2010)

That all looks good except the bracers of armor, which won't stack with the breastplate.  Ring of protection +1 instead?

Updated.


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## freyar (Apr 27, 2010)

Sure, seems good.  Now, forgetting about the usual character level math, does CR 10 still look right?  I think it's reasonable.


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## Shade (Apr 28, 2010)

I think so.  Updated.  Finished?


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## freyar (Apr 29, 2010)

The leader looks good, but we're doing a druid also, right?


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## Shade (Apr 30, 2010)

If you'd like to, we can.


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## freyar (Apr 30, 2010)

Sure, why not?  Let's keep it easy and stick to low level.  3rd?


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## Shade (Apr 30, 2010)

Sure.  Have at it.


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## freyar (Apr 30, 2010)

Will do, but probably over the weekend or next week (prepping for some business travel).  No bloodline on this one, I think, since it has casting.


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## Shade (May 19, 2010)

Do you still want to work this up, frey man?


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## freyar (May 20, 2010)

Hah, forgot about this!  Yes, I've just been swamped.  

Getting started:
Elite array: 15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8, gets +2 Dex and Cha.
Str 10, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 16?

If that sounds reasonable, I'll flesh out a statblock.


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## Shade (May 20, 2010)

That works for me!


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## freyar (May 21, 2010)

Reserving space here...

*Sidhe Priest*
3rd-level sidhe druid
Medium fey
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft (6 sq)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 Dex, +1 natural, +2 leather), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+2
Attack: Quarterstaff +2 melee (1d6) or sling +4 ranged (1d4)
Full Attack: Quarterstaff +2 melee (1d6) or sling +4 ranged (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, spells
Special Qualities: Animal companion (hawk), iron intolerance, low-light vision, nature sense, trackless step, water breathing, wild empathy, woodland stride
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +3, Will +5
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 14, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 16
Skills: Concentration +4, Handle Animal +6, Heal +5, Listen +5, Spot +5, Survival +5
Feats: Spell Focus (conjuration), Augment Summoning
Environment: Any
Organization: solitary or band (1-6 plus 30–100 1st level warriors plus 20% noncombatants plus 1 3rd-level sergeant per 10 adults, 5 5th-level lieutenants, 3 7th-level captains, and 1 10th-level leader)
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Usually neutral
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2

Spells prepared:
0th - create water, detect magic, light, read magic
1st - cure light wounds, longstrider, shillelagh
2nd - heat metal, wood shape


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## freyar (May 24, 2010)

There's a basic framework for the druid, but we need to decide on skills, feats, and equipment basically.  And spells!

Back on the fighter.  Shouldn't speed be reduced to 20 ft due to wearing medium armor (the dragonhide breastplate)?


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## Shade (May 25, 2010)

Good catch on the fighter.

Natural Spell is always a good choice for a druid.


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## freyar (May 25, 2010)

Can a druid take Natural Spell before 5th level (when gaining wild shape, which is a feat prereq)?  What about Spell Focus (conjuration) and Augment Summoning?


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## Shade (May 26, 2010)

Oh, good point.  I forgot wild shape comes later.

Those other feats are a good fit.


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## freyar (May 26, 2010)

Added those feats.  I also put in 3 ranks each of Concentration, Handle Animal, Heal, Listen, Spot, and Survival (she gets 18 ranks total). I thought about Knowledge (nature) but didn't like the Int penalty for that.  Sound good?

Suggestions for equipment before we get to spells?


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## Shade (May 26, 2010)

Leather armor, sling, and quarterstaff?


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## freyar (May 26, 2010)

Updated.

Spells prepared:
0th - 4
1st - 3
2nd - 2

Thoughts?


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## Shade (May 26, 2010)

0th - create water, detect magic, light, read magic
1st - cure light wounds, longstrider, shillelagh
2nd - heat metal, wood shape


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## freyar (May 27, 2010)

Those seem good!  Added...

I have to say that I think Spell Focus (conjuration) is a true waste of a prereq feat given that so few conjuration spells allow saves (at least for low level druids, I think there might not be any!).

Organization: ?
CR still look like 3 to you?
Do we need to specify the animal companion?


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## Shade (May 27, 2010)

CR 3 looks fine, yes to the animal companion (a hawk, perhaps?), and dunno about the Org.  I'll have to dig back through the thread to the original writeup for hints on that.

Spell Focus (conjuration) is a horrid prereq, indeed!


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## freyar (May 27, 2010)

I just put hawk in parentheses on the SQ line, is that right?

For org, I went with solitary or band (same as above but with 1-6 druids).


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## Shade (Jun 1, 2010)

Looks good.  Anything left?  Once you're happy with it, I'll port it to the main sidhe entry and we can move on.


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## freyar (Jun 1, 2010)

I believe it's done.  Let's copy it over and move to the next one.


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## Shade (Jun 1, 2010)

Updated.


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## freyar (Jun 1, 2010)

Next?


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## Shade (Jun 2, 2010)

Here's the last one Echohawk identified as "Unconverted Fey".   And it's a doozy...

*Gremlin, Type I *
FREQUENCY: Uncommon 
NO. APPEARING: 1-11 or more
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVE: 6"
HIT DICE: 1-4 hit points per rank
% IN LAIR: 5%
TREASURE TYPE: S, T, V, X
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: See below
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic neutral (good tendencies) 
SIZE: S (12-20 inches)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil
LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: II / 61 + 1/hp

*Gremlin, Type II*
FREQUENCY: Rare
NO. APPEARING: 1-11 or more
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVE: 6"
HIT DICE: 1-4 hit points per rank
% IN LAIR: 5%
TREASURE TYPE: S, T, V, X
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: See below
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic neutral (evil tendencies)
SIZE: S (6 inches)
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil
Attack/Defense Modes: Nil
LEVEL/X.P. VALUE: II / 61 + 1/hp

Distantly related to the pixie, sprite, leprechaun, and other members of the “wee folk”. the gremlin is a natural follower and enforcer of Murphy’s Law: If anything can go wrong, it will--at the most inopportune time and in the worst possible way.

Gremlins are not native to the AD&D world; they are recent immigrants from our own real world. They first came to our attention during World War I, when they plagued Britain’s Royal Naval Air Service pilots. The poor pilots found themselves targets for such amusing gremlin jokes as drinking a plane’s fuel during reconnaissance flights, plucking wing struts until the wires snapped, and playing teeter-board on the ailerons during a student’s solo. This last resulted in a flight that seemed to be nothing but Immelmann turns and loop-de-loops.

At the time, the Allied pilots did not know what was causing their problems, but they probably blamed the other side. (It is not known if the German forces were also troubled by gremlins, but it is very probable.) It was not until 1922 that gremlins were actually “discovered”. During a routine R.A.F. flight, a pilot called the weather station at Le Bourget Field in Paris for a weather report. He was warned, “Gremlins sur la manche”. His radio then died.

Since then we have become very familiar with gremlin activities. During World War II, gremlins were blamed for overturning a Sunderland bomber while it was patrolling over the Bay of Biscay; changing the positions of the stars in the sky to confuse navigators; shorting out electrical equipment; and generally making things difficult for pilots.

There was a popular belief among airmen that the gremlins had undermined every aerodrome in England and underpinned the runways with hydraulic-jacks. A gremlin kept watch over the jacks and, when a student-pilot was about to come in for a perfect three-point landing, would pull a lever and either raise or lower the runway by 10 feet or so. 

Gremlins are very technology-oriented and are fascinated by any new advances in science. Thus, they flew with the planes that dropped the first atomic bombs in 1945 and were present at every nuclear test conducted during the 1950.s. When these nuclear devices exploded, the energies released tore rifts in the space-time fabric. Some of the gremlins observing the explosions were caught in the ensuing vortices and hurled through the rifts, landing in the AD&D world.

Confused at first by the strange circumstances they found themselves in, the gremlins quickly adapted and eventually found certain gates which led back to their original world. They then organized groups of gremlins to migrate to the new world they had discovered.

Every gremlin is either chaotic neutral with good tendencies (Type I) or chaotic neutral with evil tendencies (Type II). In our world, gremlins are believed to be hybrids of the races of dwarf and sprite, with Type II gremlins also exhibiting some influence from lesser demons and imps.

Type I gremlins have been known to help humankind on occasion, at least in our world. A passage on page 466 of Vol. I of the Funk & Wagnalls Dictionary of Folklore, Mythology, and Legend states that “Many times gremlins have banded together to assist a pilot fly home in a small percentage of the plane he was issued only a few hours before.” Type II gremlins, however, take great delight in tricks which seriously injure or even kill their victims.

A Type I gremlin stands about 12 to 20 inches in height and weighs about 17 pounds. Physically, it resembles a North American jackrabbit crossed with a bull terrier. It has been described as having the facial expression “of an A.C. 2 who has just been advised that his 48-hour pass has been cancelled” (Funk & Wagnalls Dictionary, page 465). The Type I gremlin dresses in green breeches and a red jacket, sometimes with ruffles, and wears spats and a top hat. In the AD&D world, this costume may be somewhat different.

Type II gremlins, seen less frequently than their cousins, are usually decked out in aviator.s clothes, wearing black leather suction boots.

Even though individual gremlins are chaotic in behavior, gremlin society is militaristic and strictly organized. Young gremlins, or widgets, live with their parents until they become young males, known as grunts (this is also the lowest rank in the land-arm of the Gremlin Forces), or young females known as fifinellas. They are then inducted into the Gremlin Forces and assigned to whatever division suits them: land, sea, or air. 

Land gremlins live in underground burrows similar to those inhabited by halflings. The entrances are concealed or camouflaged to look like the entrance to a giant rat warren or some wild animal’s burrow.

Marine gremlins have webbed feet with fins on the backs of their heels. They have a set of secondary gills which enable them to breathe underwater and live in grottos and undersea caverns. 

The spandule is a species of gremlin which lives entirely in the upper reaches of the sky. Spandules either ride on the backs of large flying creatures such as rocs, or live on high mountain peaks.

Starting at the bottom of the heap, the gremlin works his way up through the ranks (see Table 1) until he either perishes in the line of duty or retires. Retired gremlins usually take the rank of Warrant Officer and become specialists.

The ultimate authority among gremlinkind is the Chief, who presides over a council of 10 of the highest-ranking gremlins. The Chief is chosen by the council members from among themselves and rules for a term of somewhere around four years; the council promotes a lower-ranking officer from among the brass to take the seat vacated by the newly-elected Chief. Re-election is possible and has occurred before; one Chief held the post for three terms before illness forced him to retire. Chiefs who are not re-elected will retire and become Inspector-Generals.

Gremlins generally work in groups of two or more, though certain individuals do like to strike out on their own. The most common grouping is the squad, which is led by one of the Sawj classes (see Table 2). The Sawj is the highest rank that nongremlins have ever seen, and a louder, meaner, more ornery and foul-mouthed being never existed. Rumors abound of the existence of Looeys, Cap.ems, Jayjeez, Teks, and other higherranking gremlins, and logic seems to dictate that these ranks exist, but only the gremlins themselves have ever seen them.

Gremlins are amazingly strong (18) for their size, easily rivaling most humans. But they tend to avoid combat, preferring trickery instead. They also have certain natural magical abilities at birth, possibly a genetic holdover from their former magical might during Earth’s younger days. They have both infravision and ultravision. They can turn invisible at will, and can feather fall whenever they wish. They have one peculiarity in this respect: they like to keep their heads pointed downward (toward the ground) when feather falling. Frequently gremlins will form chains, linking arms and feather falling as a group, much the way skydivers form patterns as they fall.

Magic resistance varies according to rank, starting from a basic resistance of 5% for grunts and civilians and increasing by 5% for every two steps in rank up to a maximum of 50% for a Jenrul. 

As mentioned previously, gremlins are fascinated by technology. Upon introduction to a magic-based universe, they immediately set about learning the ways of sorcery and have become quite adept at using magic to confound and confuse the victims of their practical jokes.

As widgets, gremlins learn certain magic-user cantrips (see Table 3) which aid them in bedeviling non-gremlins. Upon joining the Forces, gremlins are taught certain higher-level spells (see Table 4) so that they might continue making life more and more miserable for others.

Gremlins are not dependent on spells to carry out their disruptive duties. Since they are able to draw on generations of mechanical and technological knowledge gleaned from gremlin and human experiments, gremlins view magic as simply a supplement, an additional aid to be used only when a task really requires it.

Gremlins find simple pranks to be the best. Some favorites are: tripping people at the top of a darkened stairwell; blowing out a party’s torches just before an encounter with a monster; giving false or inaccurate information by pretending to be the voice of a “magic” mirror or some other object; removing arrowheads from their shafts; and drinking up all the lantern oil a party may be carrying.

Any adult gremlin, regardless of rank, can function as a 5thlevel thief, though generally the only thieving abilities gremlins make use of are moving silently, climbing walls, and picking pockets.

Gremlins do not carry treasure on their persons, and they rarely have magical items. They have no use for gold, jewels, and other such things valued by the other races, though type II gremlins sometimes use gold as a lure. Any magic items picked up are taken to Stores and looked after by the Quartermaster Gremlin. The Quartermaster, a Sawjmayjer, will refuse any attempt to requisition items, forcing gremlins to either steal from Stores (which is considered good practice for their other pranks) or do without.

Of all the other races, gremlins like humans the best. Humans in the AD&D world remind them of the humans back home: natural patsies, to use a gremlin term. Dwarves are another favorite target because of their dour disposition. However, gnomes do not seem to be plagued as much by gremlins, perhaps because gnomes and gremlins seem to share a common attitude; both enjoy a good joke at someone else’s expense. Gremlins are also fond of annoying flying creatures.

Of the different character classes, gremlins especially like bothering magic-users most, mainly because magic-users provide so many opportunities for a gremlin to ply his trade. Thieves are second in popularity for much the same reason. Clerics are third on the list. Gremlins are no respecters of religion, but are very careful not to provoke divine wrath; they do not interfere with healing and resurrection spells and the like.

Fighting men are the least preferred targets of a gremlin. Because of their own military background and the history of relations between gremlinkind and soldiers in our world, gremlins have developed a special fondness for the common warrior and easily identify with him. They are reluctant to play tricks on a fighter when another target is within easy reach. Fighters, however, are not exempt and may find themselves on the receiving end of a gremlin gag if no one else is available.

Sometimes a gremlin will “attach” himself to a character for a period of time. DMs may roll d20 at their option and, if the result matches or exceeds a character.s charisma, the gremlin “likes” the character. Then roll d8, doubling the result, to determine the number of days (2-16) the gremlin will stay with the character. At the end of this time period, the DM may choose to again roll d20 vs. charisma to determine if the gremlin will stay on longer.

During times of war, siege, and other major human and humanoid undertakings, the entire gremlin force will be mobilized to harry both sides. Such mobilization will also include all gremlin support personnel, including a medical corps using clerical healing spells granted by the gods of chaos and mischief.

DMs are advised that not all disasters and mishaps which befall an adventuring party are due to gremlins. At least half of such occurrences are the fault of player characters and/or plain bad luck. If player characters suspect gremlins, by all means the DM should let them wear themselves out looking for them, even if there’s not a gremlin within 50 miles. It makes setting up an encounter with the band of ogres lurking around the corner much easier.

*Table 1: Gremlin ranks*
Land / Sea / Air
Grunt / Grunt / Grunt
Buck / Pup / Flyboy
Peefsee / Seadog / Ayefcee
Corp / Peeohthree / Sawj
Sawj / Peeohtoo / Stafsawj
Sawjfustclass / Peeohfust / Tek
Massersawj / Seenyerseepeeoh / Cheefsawj
Sawjmayjer / Masserseepeeoh / Massersawj
Sekenlooey / Ansen / Sekenlooey
Looey / Jayjeez / Looey
Cap’em / Looey / Cap’em
Mayjer / Looeyseeoh / Mayjer
Looeychik / Seeoh / Looeychik
Chik / Cap’em / Chik
Brigdeer / Lowadmerl / Brigdeer
Mayjerjenrul / Highadmerl / Mayjerjenrul
Looeyjenrul / Viceadmerl / Looeyjenrul
Jenrul / Admerl / Jenrul

Chief (highest rank, held by election)

Retirement ranks:
Warrant Officer (all ranks)
Inspector General (retired Chiefs only)

*Table 2: Levels of command*
Name / Numbers / Leader
Squad / 11 (including one medic) / Sawj
Platoon / 40 (including five medics) / Looey
Company / 200* / Cap’em
Battalion / 500-1,200* / Looeychik
Brigade / 3,000-5,000* / Chik
Division / 10,000* / Mayjerjenrul
Corps / 15,000-20,000* / Looeyjenrul
Field Army / 25,000* / Jenrul
* - includes required support personnel.

*Table 3: Gremlin cantrips*
Useful:  Chill, Color, Dampen, Dry, Flavor, Salt, Spice, Sprout (weeds), Tie
Reversed:  Curdle, Dirty, Dusty, Hairy, Knot, Ravel, Sour, Spill, Tangle, Tarnish, Wilt
Personal Affecting:  Belch, Cough, Giggle, Nod, Scratch, Sneeze, Twitch, Wink, Yawn
Personal: Bee, Bug, Firefinger, Gnats, Mouse, Spider, Tweak, Unlock
Haunting: Footfall, Groan, Moan, Rattle, Tap, Thump, Whistle
Legerdemain: Change, Distract, Hide, Mute

Cantrips are minor magic spells, also referred to as zerolevel spells. Gremlins employ certain cantrips normally available to magic-users; although special cantrips also exist for illusionists, none of those are in the gremlins’ inventory. For detailed information on the gremlin cantrips listed above, see the original articles in From the Sorceror‘s Scroll, issues #59 and #60 of DRAGON® Magazine, or the reprinted articles in the Best of DRAGON® Vol. III anthology.

*Table 4: Gremlin spells*
First level:  Dancing lights, Detect magic, Erase, Push, Ventriloquism
Second level: Audible glamer, Fools gold, Pyrotechnics, Scare, Shatter, Stinking cloud, Invisibility
Third level: Dispel magic, Gust of wind, Phantasmal force, Suggestion, Tongues (reverse)
Fourth level: Confusion, Fumble, Hallucinatory terrain
Fifth level: Teleport
Sixth level: Control weather, Move earth
Seventh level: Reverse gravity
Eighth level: Incendiary cloud, Maze, Otto’s irresistible dance
Ninth level: Time stop

See p. 26 of the Players Handbook, “Spells usable by class and level --magic-users,” for the number of spells a gremlin of a certain rank (level) is able to use. Grunts are always 1st level; jenruls and admerls are level 18.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #79 (1983).


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## Cleon (Jun 2, 2010)

Ouch!

I remember these, they seem an awful lot of trouble for what is essentially a joke monster.

Actually they're not that hard a conversion as they first appear, since they've just got a couple of SLAs and Su abilities plus standard spellcasting.

Just have them cast spells as sorcerers with a level equal to their HD, and give a "favoured spell list".

There seems little need to do two separate conversions, since the  differences between Type I and Type II gremlins is in their society and appearance.

Statwise they've got Supernatural Strength - do we want to give them the full 18 or cut it down?

An 18 Strength in AD&D gave a +1 to hit and +2 damage, so I'm tempted to cut their Strength to 14-15, which is still pretty hefty for a foot tall fey!

I'm thinking something like the following:

Gremlin
Tiny Fey (Extraplanar). 
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 18, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 16, +1 natural


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## Shade (Jun 2, 2010)

At the moment, that all sounds spot on.


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## Cleon (Jun 2, 2010)

Shade said:


> At the moment, that all sounds spot on.




Come to think of it, a Dex of 18 would give them AC17, significantly higher than their listed AD&D AC. I've cut the Dexterity and NA to match its AC to the original stats, but I'd be OK raising it again - they might need a high AC when facing furious PCs!

How about this for a start, with much of it based on various Sprites:

*Gremlin
*Tiny fey (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 1d6 (3 hp)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 20 ft (4 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+2 size, +3 Dex), touch 15, flat-footed  12
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-6
Attack: Weapon +4 melee (X +2)
Attack: Weapon +4 melee (X +2)
Space/Reach: 2½ ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, spells
Special Qualities: Darkvision, low-light vision, spell resistance CR+X
Saves: Fort +0, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 14, Cha 16
Skills: 28 ranks *[*_Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Locks, Spot all seem appropriate_*]*
Feats: 1
Environment: Any
Organization: solitary, squad (5-10 plus one sawj) or platoon (20-40 plus 1 looey and 4 sawjes) *[didn't want to go all the way up to a field army!]*
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: ?
Alignment: Always Chaotic, often neutral ?
Advancement: By character class (sorcerer)
Level Adjustment: +4 ?

*Spells:* A gremlin casts spells as a 1st-level sorcerer.

It can choose its spells known from the sorcerer list and from the lists for the Artifice, Chaos and Trickery domains. The cleric spells and domain spells are considered arcane spells for a gremlin, meaning that the creature does not need a divine focus to cast them. *[**I'm not sure about the Chaos  domain**]* 

*Spell-Like Abilities*—at will: _feather fall_, _invisibility_ (self only). Caster level 8th.

*Skills:* Some racial bonus in Climb, Disable Device or Move Silently might go well.


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## Cleon (Jun 2, 2010)

Oh, and before I forget, we had better modify the name since there's already a Gremlin in the 2E AD&D Monstrous Manual (three of which originally appeared in the MC5 Greyhawk Monstrous Compendium).

There's five different varieties of Gremlin in the MM, but they're quite different from the Dragon #79 one, being "small, winged goblinoids" without any spell abilities.


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## Shade (Jun 3, 2010)

I'd rather not lose the gremlin name here, as they are gremlins in the traditional sense.

How about calling them "Sprite, Gremlin", allowing us to retain the name without causing confusion with the outsidery gremlins?


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## freyar (Jun 3, 2010)

This all works for me so far.


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## Shade (Jun 3, 2010)

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (Jun 3, 2010)

Spells:
0th - dancing lights, mage hand, open/close, prestidigitation
1st - animate rope, grease

Sound ok?


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## Shade (Jun 3, 2010)

Sure do!

You know, these things sure are well-organized for chaotic creatures.


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## freyar (Jun 4, 2010)

Yes, they're "chaotic" individually but extremely lawful in society.  Of course, they give us no evidence of their individual chaoticness except that they play pranks.  Kind of reminds me of the "CE" fire archons that WotC put up on their web site right around the 3e "lame duck" period after the 4e announcement.

Anyway, I'd be up for a change to LN or N if we aren't comfortable going to lawful.


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## Shade (Jun 4, 2010)

Ditto here.  I'm fine with LN or N, but I'm not buying CN.


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## freyar (Jun 4, 2010)

Well, I'm for LN if you're agreed.  Any more SAs or SQs?


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## Cleon (Jun 5, 2010)

Shade said:


> I'd rather not lose the gremlin name here, as they are gremlins in the traditional sense.
> 
> How about calling them "Sprite, Gremlin", allowing us to retain the name without causing confusion with the outsidery gremlins?




I want to modify the name, not lose it.

How about "Trooping Gremlin", since they group in hierarchies and there are some traditional fey folk are described as gathering in "troops"?

As for the alignment, I still quite like CN for them.

Their hierarchy might be well detailed, but that doesn't mean they follow orders. The way it says they have to steal stuff from stores that they may need for their missions suggests they're expected to rely on their individual initiative.

It may seem contradictory to have an apparently rigid rank system, but chaotic creatures are contradictory.


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## Shade (Jun 7, 2010)

I'm still not convinced on chaotic, as they are far too ordered.  I'll settle for a "usually neutral", though.

I'm not fond of "trooping gremlin" either.  Sorry!


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## freyar (Jun 7, 2010)

Yes, sounds like the consensus will be true neutral.


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## Cleon (Jun 8, 2010)

Shade said:


> I'm still not convinced on chaotic, as they are far too ordered.  I'll settle for a "usually neutral", though.




I think you're reading to much into it. Demons, Slaads and Githyanki have pretty ordered hierarchies in AD&D too, and they're not LN! 



Shade said:


> I'm not fond of "trooping gremlin" either.  Sorry!




How about Militia Gremlin then?



freyar said:


> Yes, sounds like the consensus will be true  neutral.




Aw, just because you've got the majority on your side doesn't mean there's consensus.

I'd prefer usually neutral (often chaotic) myself.


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## freyar (Jun 9, 2010)

Gee, I thought I was being generous with N and not LN. 

The thing is, I think the gremlin hierarchy sounds extremely rigid and inflexible.  The demonic hierarchy is actually many different competing and independent hierarchies, all of which are extremely fluid, as best as I understand it.  Can't say I know much about the githyanki or slaadi, though.  I do know that FC4: Slaadi would have been awesome (right after FC3: Yugoloths, of course)!


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## Shade (Jun 9, 2010)

My thoughts as well.  Demons and slaadi don't have well-formed armies with a rigid hierarchy and assigned ranks.

While githyanki are closer to this, they have an alignment of "Usually evil (any)".  So if we stick with "usually neutral", that allows for LN, N, CN, NG, and NE.  Fair?


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## freyar (Jun 9, 2010)

Good enough for me.


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## Shade (Jun 10, 2010)

Updated.

After re-reading the original text, I'm more convinced that they can run the spectrum of neutrality, as they clearly exhibit chaotic behavior along with their lawful society.



> Marine gremlins have webbed feet with fins on the backs of their heels. They have a set of secondary gills which enable them to breathe underwater and live in grottos and undersea caverns.




I've added an underbar for these variants.  Aquatic w/ amphibious?



> Magic resistance varies according to rank, starting from a basic resistance of 5% for grunts and civilians and increasing by 5% for every two steps in rank up to a maximum of 50% for a Jenrul.




I think SR 5 + class level might work best here.



> Gremlins are very technology-oriented and are fascinated by any new advances in science.






> As mentioned previously, gremlins are fascinated by technology. Upon introduction to a magic-based universe, they immediately set about learning the ways of sorcery and have become quite adept at using magic to confound and confuse the victims of their practical jokes.




Use Magic Device, with the usual "high tech" underbar?



> Any adult gremlin, regardless of rank, can function as a 5thlevel thief, though generally the only thieving abilities gremlins make use of are moving silently, climbing walls, and picking pockets.




Cleon proposed a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks and a +x racial bonus on Climb, Disable Device, and Move Silently checks.  I'd add Sleight of Hand to this as well.  Perhaps +4 for the second set of skills, including Sleight of Hand?  Maybe a racial bonus on UMD checks as well?


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## Cleon (Jun 12, 2010)

Shade said:


> While githyanki are closer to this, they have an alignment of "Usually evil (any)".  So if we stick with "usually neutral", that allows for LN, N, CN, NG, and NE.  Fair?




Not in AD&D they didn't. In the original Fiend Folio githyanki were Chaotic Evil and still had the same social hierarchy.

Guess I can put up with "usually neutral".


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## Cleon (Jun 12, 2010)

Shade said:


> I've added an underbar for these variants.  Aquatic w/ amphibious?




You haven't got the winged spandule variant. "The spandule is a species of gremlin which lives entirely in the upper reaches of the sky. Spandules either ride on the backs of large flying creatures such as rocs, or live on high mountain peaks."



Shade said:


> I think SR 5 + class level might work best here.
> 
> Use Magic Device, with the usual "high tech" underbar?
> 
> Cleon proposed a +2 racial bonus on Listen, Search, and Spot checks and a +x racial bonus on Climb, Disable Device, and Move Silently checks.  I'd add Sleight of Hand to this as well.  Perhaps +4 for the second set of skills, including Sleight of Hand?  Maybe a racial bonus on UMD checks as well?




That's OK by me, except I was going to keep the racial bonus to +2 for all the skills. They've got a high Int and Dex which already makes them pretty good at those skills.

Except for Climb that is. Maybe we should give them the ability to substitute Dex for Str for their Climb checks?


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## freyar (Jun 13, 2010)

I'm good with +2 on all the skills, including Climb.  These are already going to be pretty super skill monkeys!


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## Cleon (Jun 13, 2010)

freyar said:


> I'm good with +2 on all the skills, including Climb.  These are already going to be pretty super skill monkeys!




Does that make the spandules super skill flying monkeys?


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## Shade (Jun 14, 2010)

Cleon said:
			
		

> Not in AD&D they didn't. In the original Fiend Folio githyanki were Chaotic Evil and still had the same social hierarchy.




Odd.  My Fiend Folio lists their alignment as "Variable, but always evil".



Cleon said:


> You haven't got the winged spandule variant. "The spandule is a species of gremlin which lives entirely in the upper reaches of the sky. Spandules either ride on the backs of large flying creatures such as rocs, or live on high mountain peaks."




I've got 'em in the flavor text.  Where are you getting that they have wings?  I got the impression they fly on other creatures.  The only reason I could see for giving them an underbar is if we change out the skill selection/racial bonuses to include Ride.



Cleon said:


> That's OK by me, except I was going to keep the racial bonus to +2 for all the skills. They've got a high Int and Dex which already makes them pretty good at those skills.
> 
> Except for Climb that is. Maybe we should give them the ability to substitute Dex for Str for their Climb checks?




+2 and Dex for Climb works for me.

Updated.

While adding the "as characters" section, I wonder why it's Str is so high for a Tiny creature.  The pixie is Small, and has a -4 penalty.

Suggested weapons for the attack lines.


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## freyar (Jun 14, 2010)

Hmm.  We all agreed to that Str before, but you're right that it seems a bit high.  I suppose we should figure that out before getting to far in much else.

Short sword (or something potentially finessable) and maybe throwing darts for weapons?


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## Shade (Jun 14, 2010)

You're right.  I forgot the bit about "supernatural strength" from the original text.  We can leave it alone.  The LA will need to reflect it, though.


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## Cleon (Jun 15, 2010)

Shade said:


> Odd.  My Fiend Folio lists their alignment as "Variable, but always evil".
> 
> I've got 'em in the flavor text.  Where are you getting that they have wings?  I got the impression they fly on other creatures.  The only reason I could see for giving them an underbar is if we change out the skill selection/racial bonuses to include Ride.




Maybe my memory's playing tricks with me. I could have sworn the 1979 hardback had CE githyanki.

As for the spandule, it looks like I was mistaken about the wings - probably just thought they had to be able to fly since they live "entirely in the upper reaches of the sky".



Shade said:


> While adding the "as characters" section, I wonder why it's Str is so high for a Tiny creature.  The pixie is Small, and has a -4 penalty.




They've got supernatural strength. We've actually scaled it down from the original's Strength 18!


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2010)

freyar said:


> Short sword (or something potentially finessable) and maybe throwing darts for weapons?




So since we are sticking to decent Str, do we want something more brutal (less finessable)?


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2010)

Yup.  Maybe a hammer or something like that?


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2010)

A hammer is perfect for "tinkering".  

Updated.

Skills: 28 ranks 
Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Disable Device, Escape Artist, Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Open Locks, Sleight of Hand, Spot...

Feats: 1


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## Cleon (Jun 17, 2010)

Shade said:


> A hammer is perfect for "tinkering".
> 
> Updated.
> 
> ...




A hammer's good, it's unfortunate they don't have spanners in the SRD weapons list.

All those skills look good. I think we can probably drop Sleight of Hand since I believe they usually only steal unattended items.

4 ranks in 4 skills, with 2 ranks in the other skills? Their main thief skills are sneaky, so Hide and MS, plus Disable Device and Open Lock?

Bluff 2, Climb 2, Concentration 2, Disable Device 4, Escape Artist 2, Hide 4,  Listen 2, Move Silently 4, Open Locks 4, Spot 2.

Stealthy or Alertness for the feat?


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## Shade (Jun 17, 2010)

Based on those skill ranks, we're sitting at:

Bluff +5, Climb +7, Concentration +2, Disable Device +8, Escape Artist +5, Hide +15, Listen +6, Move Silently +9, Open Lock +7, Search +4, Spot +6

I think they are quite stealthy already.  I'm not sure they need Alertness, as they have a decent modifier in those skills and detecting others isn't their prime need.  Perhaps Nimble Fingers or Combat Casting (that +2 Concentration modifier isn't going to help much)?


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## freyar (Jun 17, 2010)

Combat Casting might be more useful in a fight, but I think I like the flavor of Nimble Fingers better.  Plus I can't remember ever having used it.


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## Shade (Jun 18, 2010)

I don't think we've used it much.


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## Cleon (Jun 19, 2010)

Shade said:


> I don't think we've used it much.




Nimble Fingers it is then!


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## Shade (Jun 21, 2010)

Updated.

Organization: solitary, squad (5-10 plus one sawj), platoon (20-40 plus 1 looey and 4 sawjes), company (41-200 plus 1 cap'em and x), battalion (500-1,200 plus 1 looeychik and x), brigade (3,000-5,000 plus 1 chik and x), division (5,001-10,000 plus 1 mayjerjenrul and x), corps (15,000-20,000 plus 1 looeyjenrul and x), or field army (20,001-25,000 plus 1 jenrul and x)

Challenge Rating: x

Treasure: x


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## freyar (Jun 21, 2010)

For all the x's in the org line, maybe just list 4 of the next rank down?  I don't think we really want to type out the whole geometric progression each time...

They're a little squishy but otherwise a bit better than a goblin, so CR 1/2?

Standard treasure, I think.


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## Cleon (Jun 22, 2010)

freyar said:


> For all the x's in the org line, maybe just list 4 of the next rank down?  I don't think we really want to type out the whole geometric progression each time...
> 
> They're a little squishy but otherwise a bit better than a goblin, so CR 1/2?
> 
> Standard treasure, I think.




I'd just go for the first few steps of the organization hierarchy. Most humanoids in D&D can form societies far larger than the typical organization listings (dwarf kingdoms, goblin hordes etc). We can add a bit in the flavour text naming the larger groupings and their leaders.

I'd like to add a level note though, perhaps something like:

*Organization:* Solitary, squad (5-10 plus one X level sawj), platoon (20-40 plus 1 Y level looey and 4 X level sawjes), company (41-200 plus 1 Z level cap'em, 2 to 10 Y looeys and 8 to 20 X sawjes)

How about 3rd to 5th level for the sawjes, 2nd to 3th level for the looeys and 4th to 7th level for the cap'em?

I thought it appropriate sawjes had a higher HD range than looeys. Eeveryone knows looeys' wouldn't be able to find their heads with both hands if they didn't have a sawj to help them.

They look higher than CR 1/2 to me due to their spells and SLAs.

Maybe CR1?


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## Shade (Jun 22, 2010)

Good point on the organization.

Yeah, the innate spellcasting definitely warrants a CR 1.

Updated.

Finished?


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## freyar (Jun 22, 2010)

Fair point; I guess a sorcerer wouldn't have any more hp than that.  All done.


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## Cleon (Jun 22, 2010)

Shade said:


> Good point on the organization.
> 
> Yeah, the innate spellcasting definitely warrants a CR 1.
> 
> ...




Its Initiative is +4 when its Dex says it should be +3, and the Gremlins as Characters section has a "+x" in LA which should be a "+4".

I would also suggest changing the last line of the Marine Gremlins entry from "   (Marine gremlins have the Aquatic subtype and amphibious special  quality?)" to "Marine gremlins have the Aquatic subtype, a 20 ft. Swim speed and the amphibious special  quality."

Apart from that I think it's OK.


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## Shade (Jun 22, 2010)

Fixed.


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## Cleon (Jun 23, 2010)

Shade said:


> Fixed.




Hold on, they don't have a Tactics entry!

How about "Gremlins avoid direct confrontations, preferring to hide from opponents and torment them with their trickery. When they do fight they rely on ambushes and their magical abilities, only resorting to their pintsized weaponry if they're cornered."


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## Shade (Jun 23, 2010)

Looks good.  Updated.


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## Cleon (Jun 24, 2010)

Shade said:


> Looks good.  Updated.




That's them done then!


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