# 0 for 6



## Storminator (Jan 28, 2004)

Well, I'm rather sad and dispondent. I've joined 3 PbPs here at ENWorld, and all have died rather miserable deaths. I've joined 3 PBeMs from various locations, and all of those have died as well.

Seems my only online gaming comes from those games I run myself. Those are a lot of work tho; I'd like to just play.

Anything constructive here? Not really.

PS


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## Majin (Jan 28, 2004)

I feel your pain. I've played in a total of 6 so far and each one has not lasted past the first battle except one. (That was 2 battles  ) I got so frustrated that I just started to DM one of my own, and thats been running great so far, but unfortunately has proven to be too _fast_ for some!


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## Radiant (Jan 28, 2004)

I so know the feeling. Just have to look at the pile of uselss characters I sit on.
Just one more reason I try to keep my own game running (now if I could only get it to move fast again...)


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## doghead (Jan 28, 2004)

Yeah, sad but too true unfortunately. There was a game set up for old timers with good track records for this very reason.

I've been lucky in a way - only one of the games I am in has died. But there have been times when I have been replying to my own posts.

My first game as a DM never got to the first fight.


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## Knightfall (Jan 29, 2004)

Talk of failed pbp games makes me hesitant to start my own game based on my homebrewed campaign, World of Kulan.

Hmm...


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## Majin (Jan 29, 2004)

We don't mean to discourage you Knightfall, it's just that it's the sad truth. There are many games that have lasted a long time and are still running on these boards. (Unfortunately I'm not part of them) I'm not completely sure what to attribute the cause of all the failed games to. Many things really, but from what I've witnessed in the past the blame seems to always fall squarely on the person DM'ing the game. It is allowed to fall apart and the players themselves get discouraged and go off to seek greener pastures. I've read a lot of game threads that I have not been a part of just for the fun of it on occasion and the biggest excuse I see from DM & player is something school/work/family related. I for one am beginning to get tired of this excuse. It's worn out. I go to college full time, and maybe it's because my major centers around computers, but I always find the time to check these boards out and post. It's not a big deal for me. I sometimes catch these same DMs/players posting all over the place in General Discussion or other parts of the board at the same time they are laying out these excuses. Do they really think the people they dish these out too are so stupid, that they don't realize they are being pushed aside by pure laziness or by someone who's lost all interest in their game? I don't mean to rant here or cause a problem, as most everyone I've met here on the boards seem to be great people, but the ones that are guilty of letting their games die off really need to wake up and fix things or not even start the game to begin with if they have no intention of seeing it through to the end. Again I apologize, but I just figured all this had to be said, as I'm sure that many others on this board share my sentiments. 

But anyway, Knightfall. Please don't get discouraged from running your game. Instead ask yourself if you really have the time and inclination to see your game through to the end. If you lose players eventually down the road recruit some more! There are always players available looking for games to jump into. As long as _you_ the DM, do not let the game die and fade off into oblivion it will stick around and join the ranks of those other games that have lasted just as long and the great DMs that run them!


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jan 29, 2004)

I would snip the below but people need to read it again...



			
				Majin said:
			
		

> We don't mean to discourage you Knightfall, it's just that it's the sad truth. There are many games that have lasted a long time and are still running on these boards. (Unfortunately I'm not part of them) I'm not completely sure what to attribute the cause of all the failed games to. Many things really, but from what I've witnessed in the past the blame seems to always fall squarely on the person DM'ing the game. It is allowed to fall apart and the players themselves get discouraged and go off to seek greener pastures. I've read a lot of game threads that I have not been a part of just for the fun of it on occasion and the biggest excuse I see from DM & player is something school/work/family related. I for one am beginning to get tired of this excuse. It's worn out. I go to college full time, and maybe it's because my major centers around computers, but I always find the time to check these boards out and post. It's not a big deal for me. I sometimes catch these same DMs/players posting all over the place in General Discussion or other parts of the board at the same time they are laying out these excuses. Do they really think the people they dish these out too are so stupid, that they don't realize they are being pushed aside by pure laziness or by someone who's lost all interest in their game? I don't mean to rant here or cause a problem, as most everyone I've met here on the boards seem to be great people, but the ones that are guilty of letting their games die off really need to wake up and fix things or not even start the game to begin with if they have no intention of seeing it through to the end. Again I apologize, but I just figured all this had to be said, as I'm sure that many others on this board share my sentiments.




Knightfall I don't think you would have an issue with players, I've seen very few players leave a game...  I've seen more than a few games die due to a lack of a DM.  I have one that I feel like is dying or at least that’s my feeling...  I don't think it’s me but maybe it is. :shurgs:

I'm lucky enough to be in a number of good games...  It's part luck and it's part knowing what to look for...  It's an experience thing.

One thing I can tell you is a good sign...  If the DM is updating, and answering questions your doing good.

Also if you are going to DM make your email available in your profile as your players might want to ask you something with out the others knowing.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 29, 2004)

I'm a lazy moderator, theres a LOT of stuff I should be doing around these forums, but never quite get to. Right now this is almost entirely LEW related. One thing I've liked about that experiment, though, is that a couple groups of PCs have been stuck with a DM that disappeared, but they can go onto another game with the same character.

I've ran six games that failed, including two games doomed from the start for being epic, one that went for more than a year, and one that had over 2000 posts (but over the course of only 8 months), but never quite panned out. I've played in 1 game for about 2.5 years, and played in about 12 that collapsed.

Currently I'm only running one adventure. I was running two a while ago, but then I had a two month board hiatus that ruined one of the games. I've also seen two games collapse due to lack of player posting (Mecha Crusade, and Kobold Quest), but that was when there were a LOT of people in 10 and 12 games.

And I'm off to go close another DMs game , so the characters can continue onto another adventure :sigh:.


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## ThoughtBubble (Jan 29, 2004)

Yeah, it's a tough thing. 
I've thought about trying to start up a PBP for a while, but never come up with something that seems feasable, attractive to players, and engaging for me. At least, not one with enough in each part to last. 

I think it's easy to get discouraged, or just not say anything at all. And when that happens, everyone else reacts the same way.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jan 29, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> And I'm off to go close another DMs game , so the characters can continue onto another adventure :sigh:.



Hey that's better than the game just ending... 

I agree I think there should be a limit to the number of games you should be in but nothing hard and fast cause what’s too much for someone else might not be to much for me.

I think I’m at my limit and I’ve settled for what I have now…  I think I have 9 games going that I consider alive but theirs probably less than that as I hardly seem to post in more than 3 a day. 

Is garyh on leave?  He seems to have quitted a lot of late if so maybe you guys should go to a three mod team.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 29, 2004)

God that's awkward to do. Stepping in for another DM I mean...

One thing that I think we should do as a community is collect our thoughts on ways to improve the chances of a game continuing. Not just things like "post once a day if you can", but real help: How to handle a combat in a fun/quick/efficient manner without sacrificing the depth of combat, How to get players to make 1 more post with every post the DM makes, and Dividing the game into chapters so that players can constantly be refreshed about the action or so that new players can replace old ones.

These are 3 reasons why some games I've seen have lasted for a long time. Most of us get 1 or 2 of those 3 things down, but it's hard to really do all 3. And, this is all just my single opinion. Other people have different opinions and perspectives on the manner.


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## Majin (Jan 29, 2004)

I was actually putting some thought into when to split my IC thread into it's 2nd part. Its quickly approaching 500 posts after only a month (Great job guys  ) and noticed the thread discussing posts that had to be split because they were growing too large. Creamsteak, as a mod, do you have a suggestion as to how many posts a thread should have before it gets to be just too large and should branch off into a fresh one? (I was thinking around 500 of course from what I got from reading that thread, but wasn't sure if there was a physical limit, as IIRC it was starting to cause problems when nearing about 1,000 or so?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jan 29, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> God that's awkward to do. Stepping in for another DM I mean...




I would prefear that over not having the game.  Even with my many I hate seeing a game closed.  Theirs always so much potential lost that can never be recovered.



			
				Creamsteak said:
			
		

> One thing that I think we should do as a community is collect our thoughts on ways to improve the chances of a game continuing.




I agree we had a thread on this not so long ago garyh made it



			
				Creamsteak said:
			
		

> Not just things like "post once a day if you can", but real help: How to handle a combat in a fun/quick/efficient manner without sacrificing the depth of combat.




PbP slows to a crawl during combat.  I think there should be a common sense clause.  If you don't post the DM should use his or her common sense to make combat move along.  If you don't like that you can always do what I call "scripting".   If you've played Baldur’s Gate you know where I get the idea.  Each player makes a list of his normal actions from most important to least important.  If nothing game wise is change this...  Say theirs some dying who needs to be checked or a plot device is being stolen then the above characters should do their script.



			
				Creamsteak said:
			
		

> How to get players to make 1 more post with every post the DM makes.




I have no ideas on this one that doesn't involve physical harm... :shurgs:  It just seems like common sense or politeness to do so.



			
				Creamsteak said:
			
		

> Dividing the game into chapters so that players can constantly be refreshed about the action or so that new players can replace old ones.




A most excellent idea their.


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## Storminator (Jan 29, 2004)

Majin said:
			
		

> I feel your pain. I've played in a total of 6 so far and each one has not lasted past the first battle except one. (That was 2 battles  ) I got so frustrated that I just started to DM one of my own, and thats been running great so far, but unfortunately has proven to be too _fast_ for some!




Yeah, I'm running my own games (via email, not here), but I've been looking for some playing. I barely have the strength to keep my two games going, there's no way I can do a third. Unfortunately, all the games I joined here seemed really cool. They just didn't pan out.

If anyone's interested, my first game is archived here: http://fomoss.rpgoffice.com/

PS


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## Creamsteak (Jan 29, 2004)

I only know what I'm told, and I'm told to split and close any threads over 1000. A long long time ago we were forced to close threads at 200 posts, which was too soon (sometimes you lose players to switching threads). Then the limit was raised to 300 late in the 3rd IR, then 400 when we had the boards moved. Then the limit was removed (about the time the hive appeared). I say go on gut instinct, when a climax has been made, it's a good time to switch threads. Most of the time, with my DMing (your mileage may vary), that's at 400-450 posts. If your feeling like it might be wise at 500, do it at 500.

Also, if you use the "Book" thread at the top of the Playing the Game forum to record all the threads for a particular game, you can have me or gary come by and close the old threads so that they can be saved for future reading.


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## Majin (Jan 29, 2004)

I'll certainly make it a point to do that when it comes time for Part 2 of my thread Creamsteak, thanks!


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## Knightfall (Jan 29, 2004)

Majin said:
			
		

> But anyway, Knightfall. Please don't get discouraged from running your game. Instead ask yourself if you really have the time and inclination to see your game through to the end. If you lose players eventually down the road recruit some more! There are always players available looking for games to jump into. As long as _you_ the DM, do not let the game die and fade off into oblivion it will stick around and join the ranks of those other games that have lasted just as long and the great DMs that run them!




I'm not so much discouraged as I am being very cautious. My homebrewed world has quite the learning curve and borrows concepts from multiple campaign supplements and other EN Worlder's homebrews.

Specifically, I have borrowed the following from several EN Worlder campaigns:

Calphas (god) - Spira *
City of Eversink - Spira *
Classes & Prestige Classses - Cydra **
Mor's End/Kul Moren - EN World City Project
NPCs - Several campaigns *
Spells - Several campaigns **

* Piratecat's Defenders of Daybreak. I'm not one for borrowing a lot of NPC concepts but Sialia is allowing me to use an 'incarnation' of Dylrath Birdhouse in my campaign. The character has a slightly different name, of course.
** the Jester's homebrewed campaign. Most of the spells I've borrowed are from the Jester's Cydra campaign, although I've gleaned many spells from others such as Piratecat, Sep, and several other EN Worlders.

My campaign world also has several well-known published locations, which have been integrated into my campaign. Cauldron, Freeport, Kaaluntor, Parma, Bluffside, Khemit, Zakhara, The Dark Continent, Kozakura, Wa, as well as several other locations. The most recent addition to my campaign is Redhurst. (Redhurst is going to be my way to link some of those regions.)

I'm also looking for a place to put Opulentium and Scopula from the _Sojourner's Diary_ articles from the _Ethos E-zine_.

Also, I've got my own yahoo group for my hombrewed world...

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/worldofkulan/

...which has several key documents for my campaign. I have a very specific list of gods, classes, prestige classes, spells, and domains.

Opinions? Comments? Interested?

KF72


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## DrZombie (Jan 29, 2004)

Knightfall1972 said:
			
		

> I'm not so much discouraged as I am being very cautious. My homebrewed world has quite the learning curve and borrows concepts from multiple campaign supplements and other EN Worlder's homebrews.
> 
> My campaign world also has several well-known published locations, which have been integrated into my campaign. Cauldron, Freeport, Kaaluntor, Parma, Bluffside, Khemit, Zakhara, The Dark Continent, Kozakura, Wa, as well as several other locations. The most recent addition to my campaign is Redhurst. (Redhurst is going to be my way to link some of those regions.)
> 
> ...



Interested? allways. I think the problem with this kind of gaming is always the difficult start. The solution is to have players start al lvl 1 in a flyspeck village, who think traveling for 20 miles is a journey filled with adventure.


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## Knightfall (Jan 29, 2004)

DrZombie said:
			
		

> Interested? allways. I think the problem with this kind of gaming is always the difficult start. The solution is to have players start al lvl 1 in a flyspeck village, who think traveling for 20 miles is a journey filled with adventure.




The thing is I want to start an urban campaign set in Mor's End, the EN World City Project from several months ago. I'm in the process of creating the city map in CC2, which can be found on the following thread: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=73364

I will be starting at 1st level though.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 30, 2004)

In my (long) experience here, the MAIN reason that PbP's fail (other than DM flaking syndrome) is because they are too dependant on having almost ALL of the original group continue to play.
When an original player leaves (for whatever myriad of reasons), they take with them a huge part of the interplay of the game, the history, the tenuous relationships that are built between characters and players/DM.
And we all know how inevitable a player leaving is, over time.
Invariably, if new players are required to fill holes, the adventure is dealt a huge blow in verisimilitude and player involvement. 
It basically Just Isn't The Same Anymore.

I'm afraid that because of this one factor, that PbP are not a very realistic, or ultimately rewarding/satisfactory style of gaming.      <-- that's a BIG frown, because I'm a  BIG proponent of PbP gaming in general.


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## Manzanita (Jan 30, 2004)

I've been playing a little over a year now and have seen many games close, of course.  At this point, though, I have 5 PCs who've advanced to 2nd level, and one who's advanced to 3rd.  It's a great feeling, I'll tell you. 

If you stick it out awhile, you'll seive out the short lived games, & end up with some that really last.  That's what happened to me, @least.

I'd like to again say 'Thank You' to Creamsteak, for shutting down "Retrieval of Fallon's Key" and freeing up our PCs to further adventure.  This aspect makes LEW very appealing to me as a player.  It is looking for appealing to me as a DM, as well.  I've been running a campaign for 9 months or so now, and I do run out of steam sometimes.  I would say, for what its worth, that no one should criticize a PbP DM until he/she runs one himself for a year or so.  It's hard to keep it fresh & good.  With LEW, it would seem possible to run an adventure for 6 months or so, then have it done with, and take a break from DMing.  Sometimes you have epic designs, but other times, I think a short shot at DMing would be healthy.


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## Velmont (Jan 30, 2004)

Well, same here, just too much game that are dying. Since I began to play, I think only one game I have the feeling it will lastm it is the EPIC mutant and masterman game run by Calinon. Pretty good and running reasonnably fast. And there is Killer in Kalidnay who is very slow, but seems it don't want to die.

Many are dying, others are death. There is one or two other which I hope will last for long, but it is very hard to make it live long, as there may always be something to make it stop for a while (someone leaving for a trip, or a bay is coming) and it end with the death of the game. Well, I hope to fall on the good one. A great game that will last.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 30, 2004)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> In my (long) experience here, the MAIN reason that PbP's fail (other than DM flaking syndrome) is because they are too dependant on having almost ALL of the original group continue to play.



I was looking over LHHS to see where we stopped the other day. Seems like everything stopped because I had the group split in 3 and one of the groups never got around to posting... and damnit, right before I wanted to have you fight a series of really hard encounters in the abyss. Brawn would have torn it up, most definitely.


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## Manzanita (Jan 31, 2004)

Let me make one further comment on this.  We don't want to make it too stressful to DM.  I know I've enjoyed all the games that have failed.  They're fun while they last.  And if those DMs had been too trepidatious to even start, then Storminator might have been 0 for 0 instead of 0 for 6.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jan 31, 2004)

Manzanita said:
			
		

> Let me make one further comment on this.  We don't want to make it too stressful to DM.  I know I've enjoyed all the games that have failed.  They're fun while they last.  And if those DMs had been too trepidatious to even start, then Storminator might have been 0 for 0 instead of 0 for 6.



Oh I can't agree more with this if I tried.   Every game I've been in has been fun, and to be honest I miss them all.

Even though I know of the issues that go into PbP I have two campaign I wouldn't mind running when time likes me again.  One is a GI Joe campaign and another is well I guess a homebrew, not that it really would be D&D but nothing special other than new to the players and a chance for me to use books that I haven’t been able to.  (The players too.)


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## Uriel (Jan 31, 2004)

When I first came to ENWorld, it was because I had tried to play on another site (Dragons Lodge,or some such) and the game died. It was free form and not even strictly D20, a quirk that bugged me. I found this place and made a character...


...Froderick Ostrandir didn't last very long, DM flakiness et al.
I almost left the Boards in disgust, but instead ,I stuck it out and here I am.

I guess that I have played in about a dozen games that have gone the way of the Dodo, play on/off inanother 8 or 10,depending on DM input and currently run 5 + the LEW games (1 right now, a 2nd coming soon).

I work full time at a Night Club (well, Th-Sun ,leaving M-W for sleep) and I find time to post between doinf the musician thing,chasing girls and trying to play in RL here in San Francisco.

I see no reason for someone who DMs a game to not be able to devote 20 minutes a day (or every other day) to posting.

Fankly, most of mine are Improved as well, I don't have floorplans and Outlines for them, i just flip to a page in the MM or a map in my 'Book of maps (canibalized from every game module that I ever owned) and say 'That looks fun.

It isn't hard to throw together an adventure/encounter,really.

The flakes have no excuse.


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## reapersaurus (Feb 1, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> I was looking over LHHS to see where we stopped the other day. Seems like everything stopped because I had the group split in 3 and one of the groups never got around to posting... and damnit, right before I wanted to have you fight a series of really hard encounters in the abyss. Brawn would have torn it up, most definitely.



dude, Brawn would have pwn3d you ALL.



Ya, I was having fun throwing his naive weight around in combat. There's SO much you can do with a Large character... even MORE now with 3.5 and all.

I liked the combat-heavy nature. Most people take the approach that combat ruinds PbP games, but if it's done well, it;s some of the most memorable parts of it.
I remember BARELY surviving the final encounter in Heavy G's Non-Iconic Adventure. Only survived due to moving 1 5' square different, and blocked the emeny's escape without an AoO.


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## Kalanyr (Feb 1, 2004)

I've seen many games die to, they largely seem to happen when for some reason people don't post for a while, or only 1 person does, (since I DM) I prefer to have at least a couple of posts before going on, so the thread just tends to die. RIP HotW. . Now to go find the other game of mine thats in the process of dying.


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## Mithreander (Feb 5, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> And I'm off to go close another DMs game , so the characters can continue onto another adventure :sigh:.




That game was mine, and it would have been good. Two of the players disappeared, and to be honest, I did not feel like taking the effort (and it does require an effort) to post another one hour post to have very few of the characters reply with more then one line responces. No, I'm not blaming the playeres, for the longer it took me to post, the more guilt I felt about posting, so I put it off even longer. This kept occuring until I had not posted for a little over a month. The result: The games I was playing in dropped me, and most of the games I DMed dies as well, except for those mentioned below.

At the time I was DMing 5 adventures. Only two of them are still going. One of them, I'm the second DM of, and 3 of the players have been replaced. One of those players has hardly posted since he joined.

My other game, I'm glad to say, has continued with the same players for over 4 months now with about 377 post so far. I'd like to see it move faster, but ey, this IS a pbp game!

The game that Creamsteak killed had about 350 posts itself, and I feel a greeat amount of sorrow in not seeing it to completion, but the players did need to move on. It SHOULD have been done about 2 months ago. I was pushing it forward for the first couple of weeks, moving through several days worth of game time, but then I lost my momentum, and my players lost theirs as well (probably do to my loss). It finnally ended right when I had sucked in my belly to give it a go again. I could not exactly force the players to stay, since I could not tell myself or them that the same thing would not happen again.

Needless to say, I'm now contenting myself with the two games I'm DMing and the ones that I'm playing in, a wopping 2 games from the 11 I had started in.


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## Creamsteak (Feb 5, 2004)

Less is more sometimes... At one time I was playing in something like 8 games. I've reduced that to a list I can actually name:

Psionicle
Emerald's Play by Post
LEW

and I just enlisted in a new game (of the dragon hunting variety).

Could you have chosen a word other than "killed?" I didn't "want" to do it, it just came to passing that I had to take what was left alive out of the adventure so it could grow somewhere else...


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## Mithreander (Feb 5, 2004)

AH, yes, less is more... but then there are times, like now, when I'm twiddling my thumbs, hoping that something happens in one of the games I'm in or DMing.

It's times like this when I feel the great need to create a game or join another... and another... and another, just so I feel that I'm doing something. 

As for Killing the game I was in... we know it was not you who 'killed' it, but I, so please allow me to reillistrate the point by saying I'm the one to put the game in it's death-thows. You happened to just be the one to put it out of it's missery.

Now, I'm wondering about my other two characters in Living EnWorld. They were in to adventures taht continued without them (for the reasons I outlined below), but I have no excuse to bring them back to the inn, or to pick them up again in the games they were in. I'm stuck. What would you suggest?

I actually feel I need to kill them off and start over, but that does not mesh well with what LEW is all about. Bah, thinking hurts.


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## Creamsteak (Feb 5, 2004)

I know in the adventure of mine that your in, we've had you tag along and silently twiddle your thumbs this whole time. Your currently occupying the same space as Sullivan on the map, and I think the group could use a hand...

You can roll up initiative and decide what action you'd take if you want.

And I DO understand the "make another game" desire. I get it every now and then. More often, I end up wanting to create a new character, whether PC or NPC. That's why I made my own RG thread, and I'm always adding new characters to the pile.


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## Mithreander (Feb 5, 2004)

That Rogue Thread Idea is not bad! I think  i may do just that!

As to your '3' rules in keeping a game going... I think I'll try to incorperate them into the games I'm playing now. The third suggestion is one that I have not really given much thought to, but given the nature of a pbp, I thinks it's well placed. Already I've started to look into where the 'chapter' of my curent games will end.

As for Gregorian... I'll do that, and I think I'll ring into the other game as well, just to see if I'm welcome.

Thanks Creamsteak.


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## Manzanita (Feb 5, 2004)

Mithreander, I was really enjoying your game, & I hope we get it going again.  I wanted to add something to the 'how to DM' list.  Though I no expert, I would say that you might be able to make it easier for yourself.  I could tell that you spend a lot of time on your posts.  It shows, and enriches the game.  But you might consider trying to streamline it a bit if it would encourage you to post more often.  For instance, you use the internet die roller, and link each roll to that page.  That must take a lot of time, & I don't know that it adds much to the players' enjoyment.  We all trust that you alre doing what you can to make it fun for us.  If you muck with the rolls, that's fine with us.  Perhaps there are some other things you could do to make it easier on yourself.  It needs to be fun for the DM, as well.


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## Mithreander (Feb 5, 2004)

Thank you for the suggestion, and I'll do exactly that. I did have a reason for doing that, two actually. First, I had in a previous game on another board, not post the results of my rolls, and do to what appeared like an unnatural trend, received challenges on my rolls. I thought to prevent that, but I see that most (actually all) of the dm's on this board decline to do so, which shines a favorable light on the players.

The second reason is because I enjoy seeing what comes up and how it effects the game, and want to share that experience with the players. In retrospect, waiting in anticipation for the rolls to come up form the roller or die is deferent then seeing the results spelled out, so the effort was mainly waisted, I think. 

Another thing that I think would speed up things for me is a way to have access to the characters in the game on hand. I do this at work, so feel awkward having character sheets laying around my desk, so have been relying on the rogue galleries. Doing this is not bad, but my connection is... not the best, so it can take a while. Not only that, but every time I change screens, I have to relog in because the software applied to my computer does not allow for cookies to be generated. A real pain.

So I was hoping for some suggestions that amy help me in this little quandry.


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## Manzanita (Feb 5, 2004)

Personally, I'm a spreadsheet addict.  I have a spreadsheet for my DM game.  I have stats summary for all the players on one sheet.  maps on another,  treasure accumulated, experience gained, battle sheets listing initative, actions as they occur, etc.  This helps me efficiently keep up with combat that lasts for over a week.  

I have another spreadsheet for all my PbP PCs.  I can open this up when I log onto the boards and efficiently recall my PC's spells, equipment, comrades, game notes etc.


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## Mithreander (Feb 5, 2004)

Anychance you can email me an example of one you used for a game you were DMing?


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## Manzanita (Feb 6, 2004)

I just emailed you an excel spreadsheet, Mithreander. Hope you can get something out of it.  Some of its pretty complicated.  Note how I've had Excel determine the die rolls.  This is quicker and easier than actually rolling the dice.  (not as exciting for a tabletop game, perhaps, but it works for me in PbP).  Note too, that I give experience points for post count and for roll playing, making my experience point page somewhat complex. Whenever I have combat, I have excel sort the participants based on their initiative, to keep it organized.  I do my maps on Excel, pasting the map section onto Paint, then converting it to a jpeg.


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## Storminator (Feb 6, 2004)

Manzanita said:
			
		

> Personally, I'm a spreadsheet addict.  I have a spreadsheet for my DM game.  I have stats summary for all the players on one sheet.  maps on another,  treasure accumulated, experience gained, battle sheets listing initative, actions as they occur, etc.  This helps me efficiently keep up with combat that lasts for over a week.
> 
> I have another spreadsheet for all my PbP PCs.  I can open this up when I log onto the boards and efficiently recall my PC's spells, equipment, comrades, game notes etc.




With the tabs in Excel, there's no reason to have separate files. Put the PC sheets in the file with the other things, then you can link the summary sheet directly to the individual PCs. That way when the PC levels up, you don't need to worry about changing your stat sheet: it's automatic.

I also put the foes' stats on the summary sheet, and once an encounter or 2 has past, I send it out. That way the players can see the stats of beasties they've beaten. Sometime it quite surprises them. 

PS


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## Mithreander (Feb 6, 2004)

Wow, looks like I may have to educate myself in the use of Exel. Thanks!


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## Piratecat (Feb 6, 2004)

I ran a game that failed; I got overwhelmed, and I couldn't admit to myself how much time it really took. I still regret how I handled it. Great players, poor DMing on my part.


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## Mithreander (Feb 6, 2004)

*Points to Piratecat* See?! See?! I'm not the only one!

*Looks abashed* Sorry about that... it's just nice to know I'm not the only one to do such things. 

[sappiness]*Hugs Piratecat* I'm not alone![/sappiness]


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## Storminator (Feb 6, 2004)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> I ran a game that failed; I got overwhelmed, and I couldn't admit to myself how much time it really took. I still regret how I handled it. Great players, poor DMing on my part.




It takes a lot of time. I can spend an hour on a post, easily. Do that a few times a week and you're spending a lot of time on a game.

To do it well, I don't think it's any easier or quicker than running a face to face game.

PS


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## Acid_crash (Feb 6, 2004)

I will admit to be a player that was in a game when AU first came out and I did let school affect my decision to keep posting my character.  I was one of the more regular posters, and I noticed that within two weeks of fall term beginning half the group had started to post less and less, and I think that effected me as well...then, two weeks after school began, my internet connection at home shut down for four months, and I spaced the fact that I could still keep it going by posting at the college...

So, in that case, it was my fault as a player and not the DM's fault.  I don't know if it's going on right now or not, but I totally put the blame of my actions on my own shoulders.

It's not always you DM's at fault..sometimes us players get jaded about posting as well.  I've learned a lot in the last six months about playing on line, playing in person, and how to adapt to the pressures of school and real life.


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## Mithreander (Feb 6, 2004)

I think my biggest issue is taking on to much at once and getting burned out... that and not letting the games I'm involved in know that I need a break. I think I would have better luck if I stuck with a smaller list of games I am participating in, and let them know if I'm going to be absent. Well, enough of my rambling for now.


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## doghead (Feb 7, 2004)

*my two cents worth*

I've just wrapping up the first scene of my 2nd pbp post game (as DM). It was a battle. My first game died as the characters approached their first fight. Based on checking out some of the faster starting games, I though I would try start this game fast, with a fight. Unlike in tabletop games, I think that a lot of characterisation occures during combat in PbP games. There is not as big a distinction between role play and combat. But it did take me about a hour to write up the principle posts - 6pcs, 3 npcs and three blocks of goblins (about 6 involved in the fight).

I have also just asked be excused from a game. I was really enjoying it, and the character had come up with a couple of good moments. It was really hard to do. I felt that I was failing the others. But the game was recruiting and had more applicants than places so I felt that I could step down now without hurting the game. And I am, to paraphrase, feeling a little jaded in need of a little breathing space. Its good to hear that I am not alone.


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## Manzanita (Feb 8, 2004)

It's impossible not to have ups and downs in PbP.  When you're playing nearly everyday, there's always days you're not feeling very into it.  That's one of the reasons it's so much easier as a player than a DM, because the DM always has to be into it or the game really suffers.

I'm glad you didn't drop my game, Doghead.  You're a great contributer!


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## doghead (Feb 8, 2004)

It was really hard. I couldn't choose one game as "better" than another. I absolutely didn't want to just drop out, but I recognised the beginings some of the feeling expressed by others in the thread - feeling overwhelmed, burnt out and even resentful. Hopefully, their honesty has helped me avoid walking down the same path. Hopefully mine might help someone else.

Eventually, I chose based on which game I could step down from with the least disruption. It wasn't completely painless. I hope that I didn't leave any hard feelings. 

And the character was one of my better ones, I think


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## Mithreander (Feb 9, 2004)

You did better then I did... had more courage then I did... and you did better for it. You dropped out on your own, letting the others know, where I just disappeared.

Be assured that they have greater respect for you then they have for me, for your methode was honest while mine was cowardly. I'll take your experience and apply it in the future. 

Thank yuo very much for sharing.


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## Verbatim (Feb 9, 2004)

Well, you're back now Mith, so its all good. I think most people out here understand all to well both sides of the coin.

So, with that in mind keep on being a kick ass DM, and I'll have my post in a minute telling everyone about the brew ha-ha you have in store for us..


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## Mithreander (Feb 9, 2004)

Hee, hee... now this I AM looking forward to!


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## Uriel (Feb 10, 2004)

Mithreander said:
			
		

> Needless to say, I'm now contenting myself with the two games I'm DMing and the ones that I'm playing in, a wopping 2 games from the 11 I had started in.




At least Blaught was in a position to disappear in a believable manner when you disappeared. I just had him _not come back_ from Scouting.
Hope your game load/whatever becomes manageable for you.


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