# Heroes Season 1(#22)---5/14/07-'Landslide'



## Truth Seeker (May 14, 2007)

*Landslide *   ​
*Star*:  *Leonard Roberts (D.L. Hawkins),  Masi Oka (Hiro Nakamura),  Milo Ventimiglia (Peter Petrelli),  Noah Gray-Cabey (Micah Sanders),  Santiago Cabrera (Isaac Mendez),  Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder Suresh),  Adrian Pasdar (Nathan Petrelli),  Ali Larter (Niki Sanders),  Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman),  Hayden Panettiere (Claire Bennet),  Jack Coleman (Mr. Bennet / HRG)  * 

Recurring Role:  *Cristine Rose (Angela Petrelli),  Zachary Quinto (Sylar),  George Takei (Kaito Nakamura),  Clea DuVall (Audrey Hanson),  James Kyson Lee (Ando Masahashi),  Missy Peregrym (Candice Wilmer),  Adair Tishler (Molly Walker) * 

Guest Star:  *Malcolm McDowell (Linderman),  Matthew John Armstrong (Ted Sprague),  Justin Evans (Simon Petrelli),  Rena Sofer (Heidi Petrelli),  Jackson Wurth (Monty Petrelli)  * 

Angela Petrelli is forced to play a bigger role in Nathan, Peter, and Claire's life. The truth about the death of Nathan and Peter's father is finally revealed along with his true identity. When Nathan finds out that he may have a chance to become more than a Congressman, he is confronted with a decision that he must make. As election day nears some try to leave NYC. HRG and Matt learn another surprising secret. Also, Sylar is eating another hero's brain. Hiro's dad returns.​
For those who hold the power...challenge the reings of Destiny.


----------



## Steel_Wind (May 15, 2007)

Well - I wonder if that was part of the bright future that he saw.

I'm guessing....no.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Gotta say, worst "before the credits" section in a long time for me. Otherwise decent ep (as of 9:18)


----------



## Ghostwind (May 15, 2007)

Best line of the night: "Didn't I throw you out a window?"


----------



## Waylander the Slayer (May 15, 2007)

I am officially rooting for Sylar; the rest of them are way too confused.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> Best line of the night: "Didn't I throw you out a window?"




good, but Bennets was also good. Friends indeed. 

A mix of good stuff, but some of the stuff is just...

Ted was a disappointment, Hiro's Training Montage is silly & hilarious...

I liked Micah & Candace.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 15, 2007)

Boom!

Wooohooo, Awsome epiode


----------



## Steel_Wind (May 15, 2007)

Obviously, there was some "training power" going on in the backroom with Papa Nakumura.

They were not trying to suggest you can go to black belt in Kendo in one hour.

Although Masi Oka actually IS a black belt in Kendo!

Linderman's death was unexpected. I thought he'd be around for next season. 

Things seem to be falling apart; the centre cannot hold.


----------



## Ghostwind (May 15, 2007)

It was a good set-up episode for the finale.


----------



## wingsandsword (May 15, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Linderman's death was unexpected. I thought he'd be around for next season.



Yeah, that was the biggest surprise of the episode.  

Hiro having his training montage was cool, and Mr. Bennett pulling the trigger on his boss was also a nice scene.

I think we've notably deviated from the "Dark Future" we saw though, as in Five Years Gone we saw a moment where Sylar used DL's phasing power in his fight, and now DL has died without Sylar stealing his power, so it does seem that the future can be changed.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 15, 2007)

Linderman’s death was a surprise. His plot to make the world a better place by killing six-million or so people always seemed a bit poorly thought out and if he can’t control his own, ah… not dying, then the plan that Nathan is going alone with is even more fundamentally flawed that it first appeared.

Ted went out like a chump.

So did Bennett’s supervisor.

Has whatever happened to Sylar father ever been identified? Perhaps he was a super himself.

D.J. was not a great surprise, but was handled better than I thought it would be, given the history of the character in the show. _Edit: _However, he is not dead yet and in the trailer he was not dead. As such, he might live long enough for Sylar to take his power.

The training montague was silly and sad. Hiro missed the point about letting Ando die and we still don’t know Hiro’s father has powers and if so what they may be.

Those hints that Candace might be fat and ugly were funny.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (May 15, 2007)

Some nice one liners. I liked Hiro's training montage. In fact, I must be coming down with something. I can only think of one thing to complain about! DL should have killed Linderman as soon as he tried to buy off Nikki. And "He's not dead yet." He was still moving in the last shot of him and Jessica. At least, that's what it looked like to me.


----------



## el-remmen (May 15, 2007)

I missed about 12 minutes of the beginning right after Peter realizes he can control Ted's power.

How/why did they decide to split up the way they did?


Great to see that blonde FBI agent back. I always liked her.  She looks like a regular person, not a T.V. person, if you know what I mean.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 15, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> How/why did they decide to split up the way they did?




They didn't want to. While going to the bus station or a train terminal, Peter heard Sylar's thoughts. They bugged out of there, only to get stopped by the FBI. Peter turned himself and Claire invisible to flee, but by then the Feds had Ted on the ground, captured, while Sylar watched from the background. Sylar had, in fact, already called the FBI.


----------



## Remus Lupin (May 15, 2007)

Poor Ted. He deserved a better death.

So, the body count is rising -- Ted, D.L. (possibly), Linderman, and it looks like the guy who can hear thoughts might go out next week (according to the trailer).

My favorite line(s):

Micah: I have a cousin who eats like you. He's huge.
Candice (munching fries): I am.


----------



## Agamon (May 15, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Although Masi Oka actually IS a black belt in Kendo!




I figured that out without actually knowing.  Why else would Hiro 'need' a katana?

And is it kendo or kenjitsu?  I thought kendo was a female-dominated sport in Japan.  I took a couple years of kenjitsu, it's fun swinging the boken around.


----------



## Alzrius (May 15, 2007)

Agamon said:
			
		

> I thought kendo was a female-dominated sport in Japan.




There are female kendoists, but it's not at all female-dominated. When I was in Japan, a friend of mine was in a kendo club there, and it was mostly men. You might be thinking of kyudo (archery).

I also thought it seemed like D. L. was still alive in that last shot (and in the split-second we saw of him in the trailer). 

Hiro's training with his father seemed kind of silly...what does a few hours of kendo really do? The only thing that remotely makes sense is that it was supposed to get Hiro into a mental place where he could do what he had to (the same way getting the sword let him feel confident in his powers again). Still, you think he'd have knocked on the door and told Ando that it was going to be a few hours. And when is he going to fight the T-Rex (his own personal dragon) already?!

I liked how a lot of bodies hit the floor this episode. Killing cast members is always cool...though really Ted, did you not think to maybe blast Sylar with radiation when he started to cut your head off? A tiny nuclear blast would have been rather apropos right then.

And I hope it doesn't make me petty to have snickered when I found out that Candice is a fat chick. Given what a spiteful bitch she is, I'd say she deserves her unhappiness.

Here's looking forward to the big Peter vs. Sylar showdown next week!


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Hiro's training with his father seemed kind of silly...what does a few hours of kendo really do? The only thing that remotely makes sense is that it was supposed to get Hiro into a mental place where he could do what he had to (the same way getting the sword let him feel confident in his powers again). Still, you think he'd have knocked on the door and told Ando that it was going to be a few hours. And when is he going to fight the T-Rex (his own personal dragon) already?!




Why I thought it was silly and funny (in a bad way) was that he's getting a few hours training in sword fighting, so he can... plunge his sword into an unarmed man while time is frozen. 

Sylar probably won't draw a sword, scream "there can be only one!" and charge Hiro!

As a mental preparation it's okay, but Hiro is so up & down with confidence, it doesn't do much for me anymore.



> I liked how a lot of bodies hit the floor this episode. Killing cast members is always cool...though really Ted, did you not think to maybe blast Sylar with radiation when he started to cut your head off? A tiny nuclear blast would have been rather apropos right then.



Ted's death was just bad. Sure, he blows up a van to escape, but he won't blow up stuff to save his life.
Right, he was just THAT disoriented.



> And I hope it doesn't make me petty to have snickered when I found out that Candice is a fat chick. Given what a spiteful bitch she is, I'd say she deserves her unhappiness.



We don't know what she really is, other than embittered.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 15, 2007)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> I think we've notably deviated from the "Dark Future" we saw though, as in Five Years Gone we saw a moment where Sylar used DL's phasing power in his fight, and now DL has died without Sylar stealing his power, so it does seem that the future can be changed.




Nope.  DL didn't die in this episode, only seriously wounded.  In fact, in next week's trailer we see him alive, if not well.

In fact, I'm willing to bet money he survives this season.  In order for the finale to work, NOTHING can change except for what Hiro and Ando do to try and stop Sylar (or Peter!).

DL has to survive so that if the bomb does go off, he can be "hidden" by Parkman and Bennett only to have Sylar eat him later!

Other predictions:

1) Hiro does not stab Sylar . . . We already know that Sylar is not the bomb, Peter is!  In the "future" episode, Future Hiro's warnings to Peter prevent Sylar from getting Claire's powers, but he obviously was still around to take them later.  And Quinto (the actor behind Sylar) is already signed for next season! (although taking that into account is kinda cheating)

2) No hero we see in the "future" episode dies . . . at least not until after the "crisis point" when the day is saved by Hiro and Ando.

3) Ando's going to bite it when he confronts Sylar.  In the "future" we know Ando dies, but we assumed he was blown up in the explosion.  But Future Hiro never actually said HOW Ando died (dies).

4) Parkman shoots and kills Molly to protect his wife and unborn baby.  This is where "Dark Parkman" from the future is born!

5) Peter explodes!!!  But somehow Hiro saves the day, perhaps by reversing time in a similar fashion as he reversed the bullet trashy Vegas lady shot at him.  If all the prophecies, time travel predictions and paintings come true . . . the bomb has to go off . . .


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> I missed about 12 minutes of the beginning right after Peter realizes he can control Ted's power.



If you remember the cliffhanger from last week, where peter is about to lose control, and Claire is about to put a bullet in her uncle...

He stops, goes "oh, wait, I'm in control, scratch the killing stuff" and all is fine.



> How/why did they decide to split up the way they did?



Peter tells them about the Prophecy, they decide to isolate the Nukers, and Claire leaves for safety and so she can gack Uncle Pete when needed. Parkman/Bennet go to put a round into the little girl.

Sylar calls Da Feds, they arrest Ted, while Pete and Claire flee invisibily.

(Apparently, he can turn other people invisible.)




> Great to see that blonde FBI agent back. I always liked her.  She looks like a regular person, not a T.V. person, if you know what I mean.



Yeah, it was good to see she was still around, though it's a shame she didn't catch on to Sylar.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 15, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Ted's death was just bad. Sure, he blows up a van to escape, but he won't blow up stuff to save his life. Right, he was just THAT disoriented.




Point 1: Ted didn't mean to blow up the van to escape the feds, he lost control of his powers.  He learns to control them AFTER he escapes the feds.

Point 2: Ted IS disoriented!  Dude, after a car crash like that, Ted is lucky (or rather, unlucky) to still be conscious.

Point 3: Ted is seriously hurt, scared and then Sylar starts cutting into him . . . but there is a part of Ted that just wants to die to atone for the people he's killed (especially his wife) and the people he might kill if he explodes like Peter told him he might.

Point 4: You try rationally thinking, "Hey, that guy's taking my head off (and it REALLY hurts), I should shoot him with my radioactive power without exploding and endangering New York!" . . . even if you haven't just been in an incredibly nasty car wreck.

Point 5: Sylar is awful quick with his head laser.  He's had lots of practice and he's learned the hard way he has to make it good and quick so his victim DOESN'T use their powers against him . . . like Peter did!

Final Point: Ted had to die to move the plot forward.  We all knew it was going to happen.

Having said all that, I too was sad to see Ted go (I liked the character) and had hoped he'd go down kicking rather than just screaming.  Oh well, to see how efficiently and coldly Sylar pulled that all off was kinda cool in its own right.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> 1) Hiro does not stab Sylar . . . We already know that Sylar is not the bomb, Peter is!  In the "future" episode, Future Hiro's warnings to Peter prevent Sylar from getting Claire's powers, but he obviously was still around to take them later.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I know Steel Wind posted it before, and for lots the cat was prematurely let out of the bag, but I really don't know why people keep posting the season 2 spoiler about. There are still folks that haven't seen it here or there.



> 2) No hero we see in the "future" episode dies . . . at least not until after the "crisis point" when the day is saved by Hiro and Ando.
> 
> 4) Parkman shoots and kills Molly to protect his wife and unborn baby.  This is where "Dark Parkman" from the future is born!



Molly is the third person Hiro brings to Bennet. (DL, Candace, Molly)
I'm not sure whether that event (Hiro bringing them to Bennet) is in Original Timeline (since modified) or Revised Timeline though.



> 3) Ando's going to bite it when he confronts Sylar.  In the "future" we know Ando dies, but we assumed he was blown up in the explosion.  But Future Hiro never actually said HOW Ando died (dies).



Was Ando reading from the Future Comic, or a map? hard to tell.
Why did Ando get a freaking SWORD anyway? Silly man.




> 5) Peter explodes!!!  But somehow Hiro saves the day, perhaps by reversing time in a similar fashion as he reversed the bullet trashy Vegas lady shot at him.  If all the prophecies, time travel predictions and paintings come true . . . the bomb has to go off . . .




I don't know that it's a sure thing that Peter explodes anymore, but next week will be the only answer we can have.


----------



## Steel_Wind (May 15, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Nope.  DL didn't die in this episode, only seriously wounded.  In fact, in next week's trailer we see him alive, if not well.
> 
> In fact, I'm willing to bet money he survives this season.  In order for the finale to work, NOTHING can change except for what Hiro and Ando do to try and stop Sylar (or Peter!).
> 
> ...




D.L. is not dead....yet. I don't think he'll last the season though. A single Nikki is more interesting than a married one.

I don't think Ando dies. I think Hiro - or somebody - saves him.

I don't believe for a second that Parkman shoots Molly; and for that matter, I don't think Bennett will either. They will see another path: to escape with Molly.

So the great FBI agent falls for Sylar's trap.  What a moron.

I'm not realy sure how any of this is going to turn out. But with Linderman dead, I think the chance of Nathan dying now is very small.   We need villains. Sylar only goes so far. D.L.'s fist in Linderman's skull saved Nate's life by default I think.   

Candice may survive her confrontation with Nikki. With Jessica - I don't think she had a chance. Nikki might take pity though.

Anyways - really looking forward to next week. 

Remember folks - it's a Two Hour extended edition next week. None of this BOOM - it's over in 41 minutes stuff.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Point 1: Ted didn't mean to blow up the van to escape the feds, he lost control of his powers.  He learns to control them AFTER he escapes the feds.



We didn't see the event, just the aftermath.



> Point 2: Ted IS disoriented!  Dude, after a car crash like that, Ted is lucky (or rather, unlucky) to still be conscious.



When Ted was shot, he almost destroyed a city in Texas. Is he too disoriented to use his power, but not disoriented enough to lose control? 



> Point 3: Ted is seriously hurt, scared and then Sylar starts cutting into him . . . but there is a part of Ted that just wants to die to atone for the people he's killed (especially his wife) and the people he might kill if he explodes like Peter told him he might.



I don't think Ted just wanted to die, and we certainly weren't told such.



> Point 4: You try rationally thinking, "Hey, that guy's taking my head off (and it REALLY hurts), I should shoot him with my radioactive power without exploding and endangering New York!" . . . even if you haven't just been in an incredibly nasty car wreck.



See point 2 above.



> Point 5: Sylar is awful quick with his head laser.  He's had lots of practice and he's learned the hard way he has to make it good and quick so his victim DOESN'T use their powers against him . . . like Peter did!




You can come up with plenty of justifications, I'm sure. I'll continue to view it as a plot point that wasn't well choreographed. Ted needed to die, but they didn't knock him unconscious because they wanted him to scream like all previous Sylar victims.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 15, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Hiro's training with his father seemed kind of silly...what does a few hours of kendo really do? The only thing that remotely makes sense is that it was supposed to get Hiro into a mental place where he could do what he had to (the same way getting the sword let him feel confident in his powers again). Still, you think he'd have knocked on the door and told Ando that it was going to be a few hours. And when is he going to fight the T-Rex (his own personal dragon) already?!




That's how I saw it while watching.  Hiro's Dad wasn't trying to teach Hiro to be a Kensai in the few hours they had together.  But was mentally preparing Hiro for what he has to do.

Also, I get the idea that when Linderman is talking about the old days and the heroes who lost their way . . . he's talking about Hiro's Dad.  And when Hiro's Dad is talking about the old days and the heroes who lost their way . . . he's talking about Linderman.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Also, I get the idea that when Linderman is talking about the old days and the heroes who lost their way . . . he's talking about Hiro's Dad.  And when Hiro's Dad is talking about the old days and the heroes who lost their way . . . he's talking about Linderman.




The comic doesn't mention powers for Petrelli Sr, so I dunno there, but Hiro's dad is in the flashback when Claire is given to Bennet. He was a part of the organization at that point at least. It'll be interesting to see the history further explored, perhaps even in second season.


Oh, and now we can have Nathan calling for Mutant Registration, after an evil DL killed Innocent Businessman Linderman.

The Linderman Act will stop such horrible things from occuring again.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 15, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Molly is the third person Hiro brings to Bennet. (DL, Candace, Molly)
> I'm not sure whether that event (Hiro bringing them to Bennet) is in Original Timeline (since modified) or Revised Timeline though.




Ah!  You're right!  I'd forgotten that.  DL, Candice, AND Molly have to survive to Parkman and Bennett can unwittingly lead them to Sylar's dinner table in the possible Dark Future!

So why does Parkman become Dark Parkman?  I guess it could be a nuclear bomb taking out half of New York . . .


----------



## WayneLigon (May 15, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Hiro's training with his father seemed kind of silly...what does a few hours of kendo really do?




I'm thinking Mr. Nakamura has a similar power; for all we know he kept them in a bubble of slow time so he could teach Hiro what he needed in an afternoon.


----------



## Glyfair (May 15, 2007)

Agamon said:
			
		

> And is it kendo or kenjitsu?



It's generally considered a difference in focus.  Kendo is about using it as an exercise for inner improvement, kenjutsu is about using it to focus on learning how to fight.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 15, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> Some nice one liners. I liked Hiro's training montage. In fact, I must be coming down with something. I can only think of one thing to complain about! DL should have killed Linderman as soon as he tried to buy off Nikki. And "He's not dead yet." He was still moving in the last shot of him and Jessica. At least, that's what it looked like to me.




Got those reversed. It was Jessica being bought off and Nikki at the end with DL. They also partly redemed Jessica since she knew she would betray Micah and DL for the money so voluntarily relinquished control back to Nikki. The interesting thing was the statement that the strength power was Nikki's in the first place but she just didn't know how to activate it. This makes somewhat more sense given that Jessica was a real person and is now dead. If Jessica's power was somehow body jumping then she jumped to her sister before her body died. Jessica at this point at least knew she had powers and was more likely to check and see if Nikki did as well.


----------



## Nellisir (May 15, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> ...they didn't knock him unconscious because they wanted him to scream like all previous Sylar victims.



yeah, I'm waiting for Sylar to run into a Banshee/Siren-type character... (sonic screaming powers...)...ouch for mr sensitive hearing!


----------



## mmu1 (May 15, 2007)

I think we know how Ando's supposed to die - Isaac's comic shows him lying on the ground, twisted and broken as if by Sylar's TK.

As for Ted not unleashing radioactive hell... I think people are overlooking the simplest explanation. 
Ted has no clue what Sylar looks like. He doesn't know Sylar just flipped over the van. As far as he's concerned, he'd just been in a car crash, he's badly hurt, and given his recent behavior might actually be concentrating on _not using_ his powers because he's afraid he'll hurt a lot of random people. Then someone cuts his head open. The end.

Even if Peter told him off-screen what Sylar looks like, and that he can use TK, it's gotta be pretty hard to connect the dots when injured and hanging upside down by your shackles. (Wait... Do those spinning guys have really bushy eyebrows...? Oh my God, they must be...! Aaaah!)


----------



## el-remmen (May 15, 2007)

Anyone else notice the name of the guy who runs the sword shop where Hiro met his dad?


----------



## Krug (May 15, 2007)

Not a bad episode, though like others I disliked the 'Asian exotica' kendo training Hiro went through. Was surprised at some of those who hit the floor this ep. I'm sure there'll be more casualties next ep. I still think Ando bites it. DL as well.


----------



## Sir Brennen (May 15, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Anyone else notice the name of the guy who runs the sword shop where Hiro met his dad?



Days of Future Past homage, indeed 

The training scene bugged me. Almost wanted an explaination of Hiro or his father altering time to explain it.

Ted's death bugged me. I, too was waiting for a flare-up. Wouldn't a radiation-scarred Sylar be poetically representative of his damaged psyche?

But, there were enough surprises and character humor to make it fun. I think it's easier to spin the threads in a series like this than to make sure they all get tied up neatly (i.e., logically and with dramatically satisfying.)


----------



## Kaodi (May 15, 2007)

Hard to say, when Mr. Nakamura tells Hiro, " I always thought a Nakamura would ascend... " does that not imply perhaps that he knew his family had potential, but was not empowered himself? Or maybe he is referring more to the spiritual side of being a Hero... 

Anyway... just because a certain villainous actor is signed, doesn't necessarily means his character survives. Between flashbacks, and time travel, going crazy and shapechanging, who knows what could happen. Instead of Sylar taking Candice's power, maybe Candice starts to look like Sylar to mess with someones head.


----------



## dogoftheunderworld (May 15, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> ...And when is he going to fight the T-Rex (his own personal dragon) already?!...



I've seen others mention this as well.  I don't think he'll ever go back in time to fight the dino.  There was a scene in the museum, when he stole the (fake) sword, with a T-rex that he stopped in front of.  I believe that is what Isaac's painting was refering to.


----------



## Arnwyn (May 15, 2007)

I found that a very enjoyable episode - probably one of my favorites of the entire season.

Unlike some others, I really liked the training montage - but then, I'm happy to get that kind of stuff any way I can, and I don't expect much from a _television_ series.

I'm fine with Ted's death - the guy was a chump, I found him boring, and thus his removal is a-ok in my eyes.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (May 15, 2007)

dogoftheunderworld said:
			
		

> I've seen others mention this as well.  I don't think he'll ever go back in time to fight the dino.  There was a scene in the museum, when he stole the (fake) sword, with a T-rex that he stopped in front of.  I believe that is what Isaac's painting was refering to.



 My thoughts exactly.  We have already seen that scene played out exactly.

Regarding the training montage - I got the impression from what Hiro's father said was that Hiro's fighting abilities were latent within him from his ancestry and only needed to be awakened.  Perhaps it was just me writing off the idea of training in just a few hours, but that's where I stand.

When Micha was tampering with the votes and mentioned that all the systems were networked, there was a moment of hesitation when he looked at Candace and then he seemed to accelerate his tampering.  My gut tells me that he did something to leave behind evidence of his tampering that will be discovered the next day.  Nathan accused of vote tampering would certainly be another kind of bomb going off.


----------



## F5 (May 15, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Anyone else notice the name of the guy who runs the sword shop where Hiro met his dad?




I missed it.  Spoiler it for me?


----------



## el-remmen (May 15, 2007)

F5 said:
			
		

> I missed it.  Spoiler it for me?




Mr. _Claremont_.  A reference to long-time X-men writer from the 80s.


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (May 15, 2007)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> I think we know how Ando's supposed to die - Isaac's comic shows him lying on the ground, twisted and broken as if by Sylar's TK.
> 
> As for Ted not unleashing radioactive hell... I think people are overlooking the simplest explanation.
> Ted has no clue what Sylar looks like. He doesn't know Sylar just flipped over the van. As far as he's concerned, he'd just been in a car crash, he's badly hurt, and given his recent behavior might actually be concentrating on _not using_ his powers because he's afraid he'll hurt a lot of random people. Then someone cuts his head open. The end.
> ...




Spot on.  Having been in a bad car accident I can safely say that if Sylar had walked up to me right after I doubt I would have been able to put up any kind of fight.  That scene was just fine.  These guys aren't experienced super heroes.


----------



## Fast Learner (May 15, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> The interesting thing was the statement that the strength power was Nikki's in the first place but she just didn't know how to activate it.



Is that what they actually said? What I remember was "Nikki was the strong one all along," which in that scene doesn't necessarily mean the power at all. It was definitely strength of character that was required in that situation.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 15, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> Nathan accused of vote tampering would certainly be another kind of bomb going off.




I wondered about that when Candice told Mica to make it a sweeping victory. Nathan goes from several points behind to a sweeping victory - that should raise enough alarms to at least check the veracity of the election returns.

Ted did not start glowing as an automatic response to the wreck, let alone his head being broken open. He started glowing in the past when he was just irritated or stubbed a toe.

I get the feeling Sylar may wipe out - or at least try to - vast portions of New York out of spite, or just because he can. Boom.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 15, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Is that what they actually said? What I remember was "Nikki was the strong one all along," which in that scene doesn't necessarily mean the power at all. It was definitely strength of character that was required in that situation.




Yes, but there is still the whole Jessica thing that has not been explained. Because of that statement I suspect that we will see Nikki instead of Jessica kicking some butt to get to Micah next week.

Since there are still alot of questions about Nikki/Jessica that are unanswered, plus the fact that she is an attractive blond, I also think she will be brought back next season.


----------



## Tolen Mar (May 15, 2007)

Did anyone else notice how Sylar dissapeared after telling the FBI agent about 'his duty'?

Has he had invisibility for a while now and I missed it?  Or does this mean that Claude has been gone now for a while because Sylar got to him?

I know they didn't show him fade out, but that's what I got from that scene when he said something, and she turned around and he wasn't there.

Further what does that mean for the big showdown if he can go invisible too?

Disclaimer: Of course I could be completely wrong, Claude has had his part and is done now, and Sylar just slipped away into the croud.  It just didnt seem that way to me.


----------



## DonTadow (May 15, 2007)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I'm thinking Mr. Nakamura has a similar power; for all we know he kept them in a bubble of slow time so he could teach Hiro what he needed in an afternoon.



I got the idea that the two were not in "real time". Look at the scene, and you notice how the coloration is off from the rest of the show.  It feels like they are either in a time bubble or slow time (ala dragonballz).  Yeah I was thinking of Goku training Gohan the whole time. during that scenes. 

Also, really liked the Candace stuff, the one thing I like about this show is the depth they put into the characters. I really felt bad for candace and can understand why she's so mean. She's probably a very unattractive overweight woman and because of her selfesteem and the way people treat her she takes on that form.  

Question? does New York really have such a sophisticated networked voting system. The ones in Detroit are terrible and it takes somewhere near 24 hours or more to tally up all the votes.


----------



## DonTadow (May 15, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I wondered about that when Candice told Mica to make it a sweeping victory. Nathan goes from several points behind to a sweeping victory - that should raise enough alarms to at least check the veracity of the election returns.
> 
> Ted did not start glowing as an automatic response to the wreck, let alone his head being broken open. He started glowing in the past when he was just irritated or stubbed a toe.
> 
> I get the feeling Sylar may wipe out - or at least try to - vast portions of New York out of spite, or just because he can. Boom.



No, sylar's not completely crazy, he has a plan. Remember, he has Isaac's dreams and he paints himself as president. He knows how to do it. 
step 1: blow up new york
step 2: kill candace and Nathan Patrelli and asume their power
step 3: run for president and win.


----------



## mmu1 (May 15, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Question? does New York really have such a sophisticated networked voting system. The ones in Detroit are terrible and it takes somewhere near 24 hours or more to tally up all the votes.




IIRC the city's making a switch to electronic voting machines - by this fall, the lever-operated ones are going to be illegal - but I don't know what system was chosen. (while they have to go electronic, the touch-screen version is only one of the possible solutions, I think another one that was being looked at was one that used paper ballots and optical scanners)

The last election still used the old ones, though.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 15, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> No, sylar's not completely crazy, he has a plan. Remember, he has Isaac's dreams and he paints himself as president. He knows how to do it.
> step 1: blow up new york
> step 2: kill candace and Nathan Patrelli and asume their power
> step 3: run for president and win.




Sylar IS a complete nutcase . . . but that doesn't make him irrational of course.  Sylar is a very frighteningly efficient crazy serial killer with ambitions of mass murder.  However, I don't think he has a plan like you outline.

One, he isn't aware of Candace.  Two, while he is aware of Nathan, Nathan isn't running for president yet.  I really don't think Sylar has a detailed plan to become president.  Rather, he trusts in his new precog powers that he WILL become president, and he merely needs to take advantage of the opportunities as they are presented to him.

In the "Dark Future" Nathan himself becomes President as Linderman planned and sets up the registration and oppression of heroes (or metahumans).  Sylar himself says that Nathan had turned against metahumans well before being replaced by Sylar.  At some point Sylar first gets Candace (probably DL at the same time, maybe Molly), then at that point realizes his path to presidency is to eat and replace Nathan.


----------



## Fast Learner (May 15, 2007)

I doubt Sylar eats Molly in the dark future, as finding Claire would have been much easier.

In "reality," having Nathan win by a landslide would be a huge mistake, as it would be _so_ far off exit polling that something would clearly look wrong. While exit polling in the US 2004 Presidential election was different from the vote count, for example, it wasn't off like _that_.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (May 15, 2007)

Tolen Mar said:
			
		

> Did anyone else notice how Sylar dissapeared after telling the FBI agent about 'his duty'?
> 
> Has he had invisibility for a while now and I missed it?  Or does this mean that Claude has been gone now for a while because Sylar got to him?
> 
> ...




If I remember right from when Mohinder first encountered Sylar in his father's apartment, he had super speed that he used to run away.  Perhaps he just ran off that fast while the agent's back was turned.


----------



## Belen (May 15, 2007)

Well, the future has obviously changed.  I no longer think that Peter explodes.  I think that when Peter saved Claire, je absorbed too much power and went into a coma. In this coma, he had the vision about exploding.  He sought Claude at that time.

IN the original timeline, he never knew about Claire.  I think he absorbed Ted's power and then confronted Sylar.  Without training, he absorbed too much power from Sylar and exploded.

I cannot wait for the finale though.


----------



## Belen (May 15, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> In "reality," having Nathan win by a landslide would be a huge mistake, as it would be _so_ far off exit polling that something would clearly look wrong. While exit polling in the US 2004 Presidential election was different from the vote count, for example, it wasn't off like _that_.




I bet that this will be addressed if the bomb does not explode.  Remember that in the original timeline, the bomb exploded in Nathan's district.  No one was going to question him as that point.


----------



## Belen (May 15, 2007)

I also loved how Nathan told Linderman that his father was his hero.  I think that statement and his speech point a way toward him not following the path Linderman wants him to follow.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 15, 2007)

The future really does need to change if I am going to keep watching. I love this show but if the bomb goes off and New York is destroyed then the future can't really be changed much and having seen the 5 years in the future I don't really want to watch a show going down that path. So I will be optimistic and think that the bomb won't go off, the future can be changed. I will find out Monday.


----------



## Umbran (May 15, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> In "reality," having Nathan win by a landslide would be a huge mistake, as it would be _so_ far off exit polling that something would clearly look wrong.




I think the plan, all along, has been for the bomb to go off _the day after_ the elections.  Between the confusion and activity right after the catastrophe and the fact that many of the machines involved may have been vaporized, I don't know if there's really a stumbling block there.


----------



## buzzard (May 15, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> The future really does need to change if I am going to keep watching. I love this show but if the bomb goes off and New York is destroyed then the future can't really be changed much and having seen the 5 years in the future I don't really want to watch a show going down that path. So I will be optimistic and think that the bomb won't go off, the future can be changed. I will find out Monday.




This is pretty much my view. If that future is the one we have to expect, I have no desire to watch the train wreck that will unfold. 

buzzard


----------



## Umbran (May 15, 2007)

dogoftheunderworld said:
			
		

> There was a scene in the museum, when he stole the (fake) sword, with a T-rex that he stopped in front of.  I believe that is what Isaac's painting was refering to.




*nod*.  I think that was set up very specifically to show the viewers that Issac's paintings do happen, but they may often not pan out as you might think.


----------



## Reynard (May 15, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> The future really does need to change if I am going to keep watching. I love this show but if the bomb goes off and New York is destroyed then the future can't really be changed much and having seen the 5 years in the future I don't really want to watch a show going down that path. So I will be optimistic and think that the bomb won't go off, the future can be changed. I will find out Monday.




While I would ride it out rather than drop the show, I see your point.  More importantly, though, is that I would say Heroes is one of the few truly optimistic shows on television and even if the bomb goes off, that will not be the future in the end.  Heck, the whole point could be a 5 year quest to avoid that future as the "meta-plot".  ultimately, I think this show is about destiny in the same way as Superman is about destiny: it isn't something you are bound to do or be, it is something you are meant to do or be.  There's a world of difference between those things.


----------



## Arnwyn (May 15, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> The future really does need to change if I am going to keep watching. I love this show but if the bomb goes off and New York is destroyed then the future can't really be changed much and having seen the 5 years in the future I don't really want to watch a show going down that path. So I will be optimistic and think that the bomb won't go off, the future can be changed. I will find out Monday.



That's pretty much exactly what I'm going with. I'm not interested in watching a show about that dark future - especially with the show's title called "Heroes". Not for me.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 15, 2007)

Well, if the statement remains true that the next season will introduce a lot of new Heroes and replace some/many of the current ones, I think the "Dark Future" will be avoided (or at least be replaced by an alternative version). The current version has the main characters of this season in its focus, and that would make it hard to exchange characters.
Unless they change the setting so much that the "Dark Future" of New York and Sylar as president doesn't really matter for the storyline.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Tolen Mar said:
			
		

> Did anyone else notice how Sylar dissapeared after telling the FBI agent about 'his duty'?




I chalk it up to just leaving, not invisibility. He had the mysterious disappearing act before. Though, we don't know all his powers either. (Molly's dad got eaten for example...)


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> Spot on.  Having been in a bad car accident I can safely say that if Sylar had walked up to me right after I doubt I would have been able to put up any kind of fight.  That scene was just fine.  These guys aren't experienced super heroes.




So then you prefer the idea that he had just enough mental fortitude to hold his power back, but not enough to let it go?


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 15, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I got the idea that the two were not in "real time". Look at the scene, and you notice how the coloration is off from the rest of the show.  It feels like they are either in a time bubble or slow time (ala dragonballz).  Yeah I was thinking of Goku training Gohan the whole time. during that scenes.



Powers don't really seem to run along hereditary lines, so I doubt Hiro's father has time-control. I don't think time was altered, for the simple reason that the sword fight is unimportant, it's just (yet another) catalyst for Hiro's confidence in his powers, IMO. They really didn't go into how much time passed, so who knows.



> Also, really liked the Candace stuff, the one thing I like about this show is the depth they put into the characters. I really felt bad for candace and can understand why she's so mean. She's probably a very unattractive overweight woman and because of her selfesteem and the way people treat her she takes on that form.



I bet she's a gnome illusionist. I didn't feel bad for her though, she's all about mind games and was probably just messing with Micah. The Silver Surfer comic was funny to me, since I immediately figured "she probably walked in and robbed a comic shop", but I suppose Linderman may have bought it.



> Question? does New York really have such a sophisticated networked voting system. The ones in Detroit are terrible and it takes somewhere near 24 hours or more to tally up all the votes.




The election was all paced oddly, but it's just a plot-device, so it's not important to the story. Nothing about the election rang as "realistic" to me.
It would have been funny if they'd mentioned how great the new system was, all thanks to the kind folks at Primatech...


----------



## occam (May 15, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Also, really liked the Candace stuff, the one thing I like about this show is the depth they put into the characters. I really felt bad for candace and can understand why she's so mean. She's probably a very unattractive overweight woman and because of her selfesteem and the way people treat her she takes on that form.




I think Candace may actually be a dude, a stereotypical fat comic-book nerd. Not that I know anyone like that; I've hung out with lots of fat computer nerds and fat RPG nerds, but that's TOTALLY different.


----------



## occam (May 15, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Powers don't really seem to run along hereditary lines, so I doubt Hiro's father has time-control.




We don't really know the extent of hereditary influence. If Linderman was Nathan's real father, that would make Claire (with some similar healing abilities) his granddaughter. I also have a theory about Peter and Sylar....


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

occam said:
			
		

> We don't really know the extent of hereditary influence. If Linderman was Nathan's real father, that would make Claire (with some similar healing abilities) his granddaughter. I also have a theory about Peter and Sylar....




Yeah, we don't know much of anything about them. But, Fire Generation + Flight= Super Healing, Intangibility + Super Strength= Computer control...

SO, eh, who knows.


----------



## Nellisir (May 16, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Is that what they actually said? What I remember was "Nikki was the strong one all along," which in that scene doesn't necessarily mean the power at all. It was definitely strength of character that was required in that situation.




I took it as an ambigious statement also.  I think DL said it, not Linderman, and DL shouldn't have any special knowledge of Nikki's power.


----------



## drothgery (May 16, 2007)

occam said:
			
		

> I think Candace may actually be a dude, a stereotypical fat comic-book nerd. Not that I know anyone like that; I've hung out with lots of fat computer nerds and fat RPG nerds, but that's TOTALLY different.




Really, I suspect she's 'really' pretty close to the same size and shape she appears. If she's not, it makes the illusion she has to keep up when walking about town a lot more complex.


----------



## Nellisir (May 16, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> The future really does need to change if I am going to keep watching. I love this show but if the bomb goes off and New York is destroyed then the future can't really be changed much and having seen the 5 years in the future I don't really want to watch a show going down that path. So I will be optimistic and think that the bomb won't go off, the future can be changed. I will find out Monday.




I'll bet anything on this.  No exploding city. It's just too big, too much, and quite honestly, too 9/11 to be a good idea. This is a show about people in our world gaining superpowers - while some deviation is to be expected, the world still has to be fundamentally "ours" (the viewers') from season to season.


----------



## Nellisir (May 16, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I chalk it up to just leaving, not invisibility. He had the mysterious disappearing act before. Though, we don't know all his powers either. (Molly's dad got eaten for example...)




Ditto.   I think he occasionally "boosts" himself with TK.  Didn't he levitate at one point (at least once), when he ran into Parkman in the hospital?  He clearly has exceptional control over his tk.  And pretty good control over the radiation, actually.

Hmm.  If Peter has radiation from Ted, and then gets it -again- from Sylar...would that push him over the edge?


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Ditto.   I think he occasionally "boosts" himself with TK.  Didn't he levitate at one point (at least once), when he ran into Parkman in the hospital?  He clearly has exceptional control over his tk.  And pretty good control over the radiation, actually.




He leapt pretty far after failing to kill FBI-girl and Parkman after failing to get Molly in FBI-villa.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 16, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Ted's death was just bad. Sure, he blows up a van to escape, but he won't blow up stuff to save his life.
> Right, he was just THAT disoriented.




I have a feeling that Ted would rather die than hurt someone else again. he truely was cursed with this power.  I also think that he had no idea that it was Sylar about to steal his power.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 16, 2007)

Tolen Mar said:
			
		

> Did anyone else notice how Sylar dissapeared after telling the FBI agent about 'his duty'?
> 
> Has he had invisibility for a while now and I missed it?  Or does this mean that Claude has been gone now for a while because Sylar got to him?
> 
> ...



I think Sylar just slipped in to the crowd, he has done that  before.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 16, 2007)

Belen said:
			
		

> Well, the future has obviously changed.  I no longer think that Peter explodes.  I think that when Peter saved Claire, je absorbed too much power and went into a coma. In this coma, he had the vision about exploding.  He sought Claude at that time.



Peter never really sought Claude out. He happened to spot him pickpocketing people and chased after him.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I have a feeling that Ted would rather die than hurt someone else again. he truely was cursed with this power.  I also think that he had no idea that it was Sylar about to steal his power.




He was repentent, sure. That doesn't equal suicidal though. Sylar being known or unknown was still someone slicing open his head. Peter had time to react when he did it, and Ted tends to burst when losing control...


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 16, 2007)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> The future really does need to change if I am going to keep watching. I love this show but if the bomb goes off and New York is destroyed then the future can't really be changed much and having seen the 5 years in the future I don't really want to watch a show going down that path. So I will be optimistic and think that the bomb won't go off, the future can be changed. I will find out Monday.




See I think the bomb can still go off and we have a very different future than what depicted in "5 years later". The next couple of seasons could be the heroes banding together and changing the world to a better place. One by preventing the dark future and two just helping humanity.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 16, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> He was repentent, sure. That doesn't equal suicidal though. Sylar being known or unknown was still someone slicing open his head. Peter had time to react when he did it, and Ted tends to burst when losing control...




It's not suicidal, I think Ted had just given up.


----------



## Wolv0rine (May 16, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I bet she's a gnome illusionist. I didn't feel bad for her though, she's all about mind games and was probably just messing with Micah. The Silver Surfer comic was funny to me, since I immediately figured "she probably walked in and robbed a comic shop", but I suppose Linderman may have bought it.



That's kind of funny really, because the second I saw that Silver Surfer comic I thought "NICE, bet it's really some crappy dollar bin comic she made look like Silver Surfer #1..."


----------



## Dire Bare (May 16, 2007)

Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> That's kind of funny really, because the second I saw that Silver Surfer comic I thought "NICE, bet it's really some crappy dollar bin comic she made look like Silver Surfer #1..."




Heh, that was my thought too . . . especially with that smirk on her face as Micah gushed over it . . .


----------



## Alzrius (May 16, 2007)

Another body just hit the floor. The newest Heroes webcomic has just been posted. Part one of two, it's titled The Death of Hana Gittelman.

Ah Wireless, we hardly knew ye...


----------



## Nellisir (May 16, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Heh, that was my thought too . . . especially with that smirk on her face as Micah gushed over it . . .



I figured the comic was real...but she probably didn't pay for it.  Hard to be busted for shoplifting when you're obviously not carrying anything.


----------



## DonTadow (May 16, 2007)

PSSSTTTT

Am I the only one who still thinks that Linderman is not dead.  I keep going back to the conversation he had with Nathan when he said how greater men have tried to kill him and failed.  Perhaps his healing is as potent or more so than Claires. It just doesn't make sense that a man that powerful gained all of his power without an ace up his sleeves.


----------



## mmu1 (May 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> PSSSTTTT
> 
> Am I the only one who still thinks that Linderman is not dead.  I keep going back to the conversation he had with Nathan when he said how greater men have tried to kill him and failed.  Perhaps his healing is as potent or more so than Claires. It just doesn't make sense that a man that powerful gained all of his power without an ace up his sleeves.




That was a pretty graphic and final-looking death scene - I'm inclined to think he's gone for good, short of the dead body being a double of the real Lindermann, but I'm not sure what that would accomplish.

In fact, I very much hope that he doesn't come back. The story needs it desperately - not Lindermann's death, specifically, but something to show that, after all the dire predictions, it might actually be possible to change the future, and that the heroes have a chance to control their destiny.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> PSSSTTTT
> 
> Am I the only one who still thinks that Linderman is not dead.  I keep going back to the conversation he had with Nathan when he said how greater men have tried to kill him and failed.  Perhaps his healing is as potent or more so than Claires. It just doesn't make sense that a man that powerful gained all of his power without an ace up his sleeves.




I think he's dead. I mean, I have a problem with DL jumping behind him that quickly, and the self-sacrifice of Jessica being non-self-sacrificing was eh... (why she didn't gack Linderman and just TAKE the big pile O cash, I dunno. I'd have figured she'd have an issue with being treated like garbage too, but that at least I can reconcile easily enough.). But, Linderman actually being dead, that's fine.

It would have been better if someone had said "DL, you're going to die, only Linderman could heal this wound...", but I guess that wouldn't work.


----------



## DonTadow (May 16, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I think he's dead. I mean, I have a problem with DL jumping behind him that quickly, and the self-sacrifice of Jessica being non-self-sacrificing was eh... (why she didn't gack Linderman and just TAKE the big pile O cash, I dunno. I'd have figured she'd have an issue with being treated like garbage too, but that at least I can reconcile easily enough.). But, Linderman actually being dead, that's fine.
> 
> It would have been better if someone had said "DL, you're going to die, only Linderman could heal this wound...", but I guess that wouldn't work.



Linderman's character feels so incomplete.  This man is powerful. He didn't gain this much power from just having the ability to heal people. He seems to have something else up his sleeve.  

Looking back on all of the dialogue of him, his collection, his paintings, i want to believe that he's immortal or has some power close to that.   I wouldn't mind a change of direction next season, but if he can die so easily he's a flop of a villian in my book. 

DL is a b character at best. It's like lex Luthor being taken out by Mr. Terrific.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 16, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Another body just hit the floor. The newest Heroes webcomic has just been posted. Part one of two, it's titled The Death of Hana Gittelman.
> 
> Ah Wireless, we hardly knew ye...




Ah, man!  What, did she have like 5 seconds of actual screen time!?!?!  I'll bet the actress who portrays her in the show is bummed out.  To have your character killed off a major network TV show . . . off screen!!!

Then again, she's not actually dead yet . . .


----------



## Steel_Wind (May 16, 2007)

It's _Heroes_...dead is just "mostly dead".

I would think Wireless is a good candidate for a stint on _Heroes: Origins._

And if not - then not. *shrug*


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Ah, man!  What, did she have like 5 seconds of actual screen time!?!?!  I'll bet the actress who portrays her in the show is bummed out.  To have your character killed off a major network TV show . . . off screen!!!
> 
> Then again, she's not actually dead yet . . .





Well, as you say, she's not dead yet...

If she DOES die, it really throws the time-travel into an odd place. I can accept that the past is changed when Hiro come back after watching himself be killed, but he hasn't interacted at all with Wireless, and she was alive in the 5 Year Future...

She was always mostly an off-screen character though, they use her for the web-stuff (whatever those reality game things are called.  and she's been in comics, but on TV she's barely noticeable. (Meanwhile the effect she has is pretty big.)


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (May 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Linderman's character feels so incomplete.  This man is powerful. He didn't gain this much power from just having the ability to heal people. He seems to have something else up his sleeve.
> 
> Looking back on all of the dialogue of him, his collection, his paintings, i want to believe that he's immortal or has some power close to that.   I wouldn't mind a change of direction next season, but if he can die so easily he's a flop of a villian in my book.
> 
> DL is a b character at best. It's like lex Luthor being taken out by Mr. Terrific.




I agree that DL yanking out some of Linderman's brain to kill him seemed a bit anti-climactic, but I'm not convinced he has annything more than his ability to heal as a super ability.  His worldly power seemed to be very much based upon money, political power and knowing and manipulating people, routine big crime boss type stuff.

As for the dialogue, his collection, his paintings etc. my feeling is that there is a kind of secret society that has been operating for a long, long time, awaiting and possibly working to enhance and control the emergence of more people with super abilities.  The repeated appearance of the sigil is what leads me to that.  Linderman was one of its primary players in the current era, but his death does not kill the rest of the organization.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> As for the dialogue, his collection, his paintings etc. my feeling is that there is a kind of secret society that has been operating for a long, long time, awaiting and possibly working to enhance and control the emergence of more people with super abilities.  The repeated appearance of the sigil is what leads me to that.  Linderman was one of its primary players in the current era, but his death does not kill the rest of the organization.



I got the feeling that Linderman, Petrelli Sr and some others formed the organization because they were aware of the Supers before anyone else, but it's possible that they joined a pre-existing group also.

The symbol is one of the things I wanted to see explored in the series, but I guess not this season. Heroes has been focused on the Bomb plot and exploring the world a bit, so they really haven't done any kind of job on actually explaining where powers come from. They don't seem to acknowledge the symbol. I don't read comics, but it sort of reminded me of Hunter: The Reckoning. At least there though, they acknowledged the Hunter Language. Heroes barely seems to notice the symbol.


----------



## WayneLigon (May 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> This man is powerful. He didn't gain this much power from just having the ability to heal people.




"Your wife no longer has brain cancer, does she? Now, per our agreement about control of your company..."
"Put me on the board of directors and I'll make sure your son sees again."
"You can walk again, thanks to me. Now, I have a favor you can do for me..."

Used carefully, even under cover of 'I can get you the best doctors on Earth', such a power would bring the kings of the Earth to their knees.

Or just from having people like, say, Parkman or Isaac in his employ he could make piles of money so easily it would be child's play.


----------



## Felon (May 16, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Heh, that was my thought too . . . especially with that smirk on her face as Micah gushed over it . . .



The smile probably had more to do with Micah naively thinking it cost her a fortune to buy.


----------



## occam (May 16, 2007)

Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> That's kind of funny really, because the second I saw that Silver Surfer comic I thought "NICE, bet it's really some crappy dollar bin comic she made look like Silver Surfer #1..."




Maybe, but then she'd have to be familiar enough with the issue to fool Micah. Ergo, she (he?) is still a comic-book geek.


----------



## occam (May 16, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> The symbol is one of the things I wanted to see explored in the series, but I guess not this season. Heroes has been focused on the Bomb plot and exploring the world a bit, so they really haven't done any kind of job on actually explaining where powers come from. They don't seem to acknowledge the symbol. I don't read comics, but it sort of reminded me of Hunter: The Reckoning. At least there though, they acknowledged the Hunter Language. Heroes barely seems to notice the symbol.




Have any of the new-generation heroes, other than Hiro and Ando, seen the symbol in more than one place? Hiro and Ando have certainly noticed how the symbol shows up in seemingly unrelated places. As best I can recall, the others (Niki/Jessica, DL, Suresh, etc.) have only seen a single instance of the symbol, if at all, and have no reason to acknowledge its ubiquity.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 16, 2007)

occam said:
			
		

> Have any of the new-generation heroes, other than Hiro and Ando, seen the symbol in more than one place? Hiro and Ando have certainly noticed how the symbol shows up in seemingly unrelated places. As best I can recall, the others (Niki/Jessica, DL, Suresh, etc.) have only seen a single instance of the symbol, if at all, and have no reason to acknowledge its ubiquity.




Right, I'm talking about the series, not the characters. Looking at the wiki, they list these appearances;
    * On various paintings by Isaac Mendez.
    * On Jessica's back whenever she surfaces as Niki's alternate personality. When Jessica is repressed, the symbol does not appear on Niki's back. This also appeared on a painting of "Jessica" by Isaac. The symbol was hidden under an extra layer of paint. Later on, Jessica hides the symbol (an apparent tattoo) under a layer of foundation makeup.
    * On the hilt of a katana once owned by 16th century samurai Takezo Kensei, possibly the earliest known manifestation of the symbol. This katana is held by Hiro Nakamura.
    * Printed on the front of Dr. Chandra Suresh's book, Activating Evolution. The symbol also appears on Chandra Suresh's genetic profiling algorithm program.
    * As a logo for Primatech Paper, in "Company Man".
    * On the Haitian's necklace.
    * On a flag at the "Jittetsu Arms" shop in New-York and on the shop's ad in the Yellow Pages.


They also say "writer and Co-Producer Aron Coleite stated that it literally means “God sending great ability.”'

It's like the Primatech/Linderman/whatever company Hiro's father has conspiracy, just because the characters don't know about all of it doesn't mean the series doesn't address parts of it.

Hopefully it'll be explored deeper in later seasons.


----------



## Victim (May 16, 2007)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I figured the comic was real...but she probably didn't pay for it.  Hard to be busted for shoplifting when you're obviously not carrying anything.




Or you just pay with illusionary cash.  Of course, with Linderman's backing, she probably could have afforded to buy it legitimately.


----------



## Tolen Mar (May 17, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I think Sylar just slipped in to the crowd, he has done that  before.




That certainly is a possibility, but something about the way they shot that scene didn't seem that way to me.  His last words were from practically right over her shoulder, but when she turned to acknowledge, he had vanished.  If he had slipped into the crowd (which were further away than that), we might have seen his back as he walked away.

Either way, it probably isnt critical to the story.  I was just theorizing.


----------



## el-remmen (May 17, 2007)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> "Your wife no longer has brain cancer, does she? Now, per our agreement about control of your company..."
> "Put me on the board of directors and I'll make sure your son sees again."
> "You can walk again, thanks to me. Now, I have a favor you can do for me..."
> 
> ...




Right, I might have missed it being mentioned before, but Nathan Petrelli's wife was definitely cured of her paralysis.  I assume that was Linderman's doing.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 17, 2007)

Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> That's kind of funny really, because the second I saw that Silver Surfer comic I thought "NICE, bet it's really some crappy dollar bin comic she made look like Silver Surfer #1..."




That is the same thought I had,


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 17, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Another body just hit the floor. The newest Heroes webcomic has just been posted. Part one of two, it's titled The Death of Hana Gittelman.
> 
> Ah Wireless, we hardly knew ye...




No body no death. She was just captured. Doesn't mean she can't get out of it.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 17, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Right, I might have missed it being mentioned before, but Nathan Petrelli's wife was definitely cured of her paralysis.  I assume that was Linderman's doing.




No assumption needed. It was shown in this last episode.


----------



## drothgery (May 17, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> That is the same thought I had,




As was mentioned up thread, Micah would almost certainly catch that, unless Candace is as big of a comic geek as Micah.


----------



## Krug (May 17, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Another body just hit the floor. The newest Heroes webcomic has just been posted. Part one of two, it's titled The Death of Hana Gittelman.
> 
> Ah Wireless, we hardly knew ye...




Not yet read it, but Hana Gittelman's death might be the death of her previous identity, and not the physical person.


----------



## Dire Bare (May 17, 2007)

Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> That's kind of funny really, because the second I saw that Silver Surfer comic I thought "NICE, bet it's really some crappy dollar bin comic she made look like Silver Surfer #1..."




Heh, do you know what it really was?

Product placement for "Fantastic Four: Rise of the Silver Surfer"!!!


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 17, 2007)

drothgery said:
			
		

> As was mentioned up thread, Micah would almost certainly catch that, unless Candace is as big of a comic geek as Micah.





Or, Candace's illusion power might have crafted the image from his subconscious, and he was reading what he expected to read in a comic that he really desired. I mean, light-bending doesn't fully explain the maze he ran through when he left the room, I think, so I'd say it's mental.


But yes, the Silver Surfer ad's are rampant on the website, so it was product placement. 

(same with Nissan Versa. I almost wonder if STI gave them all the guns too, since they all use the same custom race gun for self-defense...)

(except Peter giving Claire the 1911. I like to think that was his fathers from Vietnam.)


----------



## RigaMortus2 (May 17, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Ted was a disappointment, Hiro's Training Montage is silly & hilarious...




I thought for sure Hiro would travel to feudal Japan, train for years with real Kensai, and then teleport back to the present with all that knowledge.  That would have been much better IMO.


----------



## Steel_Wind (May 17, 2007)

There is an interesting - and very convincing theory = posted on the 9th Wonders Boards that Kaito Nakamura is not Hiro's father at all.

Spoilers follow. And while this is a "theory" and not a spoiler per se, I think it is so spot on a theory I'm calling it an outright spoiler


Spoiler



Is it possible that Kaito Nakamura is actually the legendary Takezo Kensei? We still don't know what Kaito's power is, and if it's also the ability to time travel, or perhaps some form of immortality, then could it be that Takezo Kensei never died. There are a number of things that make me think that.


 Kaito is, apparently, a master of the sword, like Takezo Kensei.
    * Kaito would always tell Hiro tales of Takezo's adventures as a kid.
    * It would explain how the 'Godsend' symbol on Takezo's sword (from over 400 years ago) became associated with today's heroes.
    * Kaito tells Hiro in Chapter 22, "I have waited a long time for a Nakamura to ascend" - How long? And which other members of the Nakamura family could he be referring to, since Hiro only has a sister? He later says, "You have proven yourself worthy of our legacy" - again, there is something about that statement that implies a certain longevity for Kaito.
    * Kaito is the founder of the Yamagato Fellowship, which is an organization dedicated to the study of certain historical heroic figures, Takezo Kensei being one of the most prominently featured heroes.
    * The description of Takezo Kensei on the Yamagato Fellowship website reads as follows:
      QUOTE
     The Dragon demanded the life of the princess. Kensei refused and cut out his own heart, handed it to the dragon and said, "My love is in here. Take it." And then he died. When the Dragon saw what Kensei was willing to sacrifice for his people (and his love) he was so moved that he replaced Kensei's heart and breathed fire-life back into the swordsman.
    * In 'Godsend', when Hiro first finds the sword, they briefly flash a portion of text describing Takezo Kensei, and it could be just a coincidence, but they do not show the date that he died, only the date he was born - (1584 - ...).








Considering we do not yet know Kaito's power, it seems likely that Kaito Nakamura and Takezo Kensei are one and the same.

*Fire-Life:* Like maybe the kind that lasts a really long time? 

Lastly, Being Beeman Episode #22  - the director's blog, explains that Hiro's mastery of the sword in so short a time is not due to training but is due to "magic".

Kensei passes on to Hiro the same secret of the sword saint that the dragon gave to him.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (May 17, 2007)

Now that is an interesting theory I really like.


----------



## Vanuslux (May 17, 2007)

*digs Steel_Wind's theory*


----------



## Fast Learner (May 17, 2007)

That was actually my theory during the show, when he said "I thought a Nakamura would eventually deserve this" or something like that. Who could he be talking about other than his family if he really is papa, and what a weird way to say it. Seemed to me that he was placing himself outside "a Nakamura."

Also, I think Candace is a fat, comic book-loving dude.


----------



## PhoenixDarkDirk (May 17, 2007)

I just read Silver Surfer #1 a few days ago, so that was interesting timing for me.


----------



## Koewn (May 17, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> There is an interesting - and very convincing theory = posted on the 9th Wonders Boards that Kaito Nakamura is not Hiro's father at all.




I'm going to add to this; I may be crazy but I swear I saw things this way, as did my wife. I'll have to see if it's still on the DVR to double check. (spoiler!):



Spoiler



There's a quick instant when you see Kaito holding the sword in front of him, his eyes are reflected in the blade.

It's not his face - it's the face of a younger Japanese man.

Hiro's dad is perhaps Takezo in a continual series of reincarnations, or some mechanic like that.


----------



## DonTadow (May 17, 2007)

Koewn said:
			
		

> I'm going to add to this; I may be crazy but I swear I saw things this way, as did my wife. I'll have to see if it's still on the DVR to double check. (spoiler!):
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That makes perfect sense. And I think i remember the scene you're talking about. I saw it too but chalked it upto camera tricks to show that Hiro and his dad are from the same tree. But this theory (though less plausable) is more fun to believe.


----------



## Taelorn76 (May 17, 2007)

Koewn said:
			
		

> I'm going to add to this; I may be crazy but I swear I saw things this way, as did my wife. I'll have to see if it's still on the DVR to double check. (spoiler!):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




The eyes were younger looking


----------



## Randolpho (May 17, 2007)

Very interesting theory. I have some discussion to do with the wife when I get home...


----------



## el-remmen (May 17, 2007)

I saw it, too.


----------



## papastebu (May 17, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Yeah, we don't know much of anything about them. But, Fire Generation + Flight= Super Healing, Intangibility + Super Strength= Computer control...
> 
> SO, eh, who knows.



Conjecture, obviously, but my take on the whole thing is that whatever power might be there is there, and that the person's personality and/or life events cause a given power or set of powers to cement into them.
My "proofs" are, Micah is a child of the new millennium, has machines all around him, and is constantly being praised for how smart he is. Peter's chosen profession is Hospice Nurse, he has a way of taking in what others are feeling and giving back what they need, his genes expressed as a power sponge. Nathan would never have expressed if he hadn't needed to fly, that night on the road, when he needed to save himself. Hiro is a sci-fi, Star Trek, Star Wars junkie, very intelligent, but a dreamer, and grew up hearing about "the space-time continuum". Nikki needed to be strong, so she was, while Jessica needed to get out of her body---rape victims sometimes become MPD sufferers due to compartmentalizing of this sort---into someplace safe. Claire kept getting into scrapes---this is complete conjecture, except for the hand through the glass case scene---and hurting herself, and her body reacted. I can't explain Parkman, except to say that he is the suspicious sort, and maybe his wanting to be a detective but he couldn't read had something to do with it. Sylar wanted to be special, and found the means to do so, even though up to then he'd only been a watchmaker, because he wanted to please both his parents. I have no explanation about Ted, as to why he became Radioactive Man. D.L. either needed to get into someplace, or out of it, and did so. That's all I got.


----------



## papastebu (May 17, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I think he's dead. I mean, I have a problem with DL jumping behind him that quickly, and the self-sacrifice of Jessica being non-self-sacrificing was eh... (why she didn't gack Linderman and just TAKE the big pile O cash, I dunno. I'd have figured she'd have an issue with being treated like garbage too, but that at least I can reconcile easily enough.). But, Linderman actually being dead, that's fine.
> 
> It would have been better if someone had said "DL, you're going to die, only Linderman could heal this wound...", but I guess that wouldn't work.



D.L. should have phased both himself and Nikki. Maybe he was just trying to save her, didn't have time to think?
I just had a thought as to why Nikki can't use the strength powers unless her sister takes over. Their father killed her, not Jessica, and nobody ever knew it, but Nikki jumped into Jessica, and can't jump out because she would die? She needs her own body to jump back into before she can take over any others. Jessica's power is the strength/durability schtick, so they only come out when Jessica is ascendant.
Also, I got the impression, too, that Hiro's dad was immortal.


----------



## Victim (May 17, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> D.L. should have phased both himself and Nikki. Maybe he was just trying to save her, didn't have time to think?
> I just had a thought as to why Nikki can't use the strength powers unless her sister takes over. Their father killed her, not Jessica, and nobody ever knew it, but Nikki jumped into Jessica, and can't jump out because she would die? She needs her own body to jump back into before she can take over any others. Jessica's power is the strength/durability schtick, so they only come out when Jessica is ascendant.
> Also, I got the impression, too, that Hiro's dad was immortal.




Niki snaps the prison guard's stick when he's taking her away from DL on his visit (I can't remember if Micah was there).  She seems to have the super strength, but doesn't really know about it.


----------



## DonTadow (May 17, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> Conjecture, obviously, but my take on the whole thing is that whatever power might be there is there, and that the person's personality and/or life events cause a given power or set of powers to cement into them.
> My "proofs" are, Micah is a child of the new millennium, has machines all around him, and is constantly being praised for how smart he is. Peter's chosen profession is Hospice Nurse, he has a way of taking in what others are feeling and giving back what they need, his genes expressed as a power sponge. Nathan would never have expressed if he hadn't needed to fly, that night on the road, when he needed to save himself. Hiro is a sci-fi, Star Trek, Star Wars junkie, very intelligent, but a dreamer, and grew up hearing about "the space-time continuum". Nikki needed to be strong, so she was, while Jessica needed to get out of her body---rape victims sometimes become MPD sufferers due to compartmentalizing of this sort---into someplace safe. Claire kept getting into scrapes---this is complete conjecture, except for the hand through the glass case scene---and hurting herself, and her body reacted. I can't explain Parkman, except to say that he is the suspicious sort, and maybe his wanting to be a detective but he couldn't read had something to do with it. Sylar wanted to be special, and found the means to do so, even though up to then he'd only been a watchmaker, because he wanted to please both his parents. I have no explanation about Ted, as to why he became Radioactive Man. D.L. either needed to get into someplace, or out of it, and did so. That's all I got.



I like this theory and it makes absolute sense. 

Claire's mom is a chain smoker, what better than to produce your own light. 

The illusion woman has self esteem issues, what better way to manifest them than to change the way things look.


----------



## papastebu (May 17, 2007)

Victim said:
			
		

> Niki snaps the prison guard's stick when he's taking her away from DL on his visit (I can't remember if Micah was there).  She seems to have the super strength, but doesn't really know about it.



So you think I'm off base, and Jessica is the jumper?
Another idea is that Jessica really is a result of Nikki's trauma via her father. A second personality that takes on the form of Jessica, her sister who always seemed like the strong one, to take over when the need arises. This doesn't explain the power symbol, though.


----------



## wingsandsword (May 17, 2007)

I really like the theory that the form the Heroes powers take reflects their personality and desires.

Linderman, from how he explained himself to Nathan, apparently wanted to heal the world when he was young, so he had powers of Healing.

Eden wanted everybody to do what she wanted.

As for Ted, maybe he had an explosive temper?

The Haitian, maybe he wanted everybody to forget about him?  He is silent by choice and tries to be unobtrusive.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (May 17, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> Conjecture, obviously, but my take on the whole thing is that whatever power might be there is there, and that the person's personality and/or life events cause a given power or set of powers to cement into them.
> My "proofs" are, Micah is a child of the new millennium, has machines all around him, and is constantly being praised for how smart he is. Peter's chosen profession is Hospice Nurse, he has a way of taking in what others are feeling and giving back what they need, his genes expressed as a power sponge. Nathan would never have expressed if he hadn't needed to fly, that night on the road, when he needed to save himself. Hiro is a sci-fi, Star Trek, Star Wars junkie, very intelligent, but a dreamer, and grew up hearing about "the space-time continuum". Nikki needed to be strong, so she was, while Jessica needed to get out of her body---rape victims sometimes become MPD sufferers due to compartmentalizing of this sort---into someplace safe. Claire kept getting into scrapes---this is complete conjecture, except for the hand through the glass case scene---and hurting herself, and her body reacted. I can't explain Parkman, except to say that he is the suspicious sort, and maybe his wanting to be a detective but he couldn't read had something to do with it. Sylar wanted to be special, and found the means to do so, even though up to then he'd only been a watchmaker, because he wanted to please both his parents. I have no explanation about Ted, as to why he became Radioactive Man. D.L. either needed to get into someplace, or out of it, and did so. That's all I got.



It works, kind of, but I would guess that it actually goes in the other direction and that the personality is a reflection of the power, even before it manifests.  Claire doesn't quite make sense otherwise, and I don't buy Nathan, either.  His power was manifesting itself when Peter was trying to fly way back at the beginning of the season - Peter was siphoning some of it.  If it were need/desire based, I would think Nathan would have expressed healing powers ala Linderman to heal his wife.  

Or more likely than any of that is that it is easier for the writers to make the characters archetypes and have their personalities make sense with their powers rather than it being something they actively thought out.


----------



## wingsandsword (May 17, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> I would think Nathan would have expressed healing powers ala Linderman to heal his wife.



Nathan first flew to escape the wreck that crippled his wife, so he had powers before (albeit moments before) she needed to be healed. 

So, his power could have been a survival reflex to leave the wreck, hence why he developed flying.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 18, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> Conjecture, obviously, but my take on the whole thing is that whatever power might be there is there, and that the person's personality and/or life events cause a given power or set of powers to cement into them.




It fits well. Myself, I think the powers and personality are tied, but not automatically in a "he needed this power" style, but some other way.

Like I said, it reminds me of Hunter: The Reckoning, and I can see a "hand" guiding the Heroes in some ways. Nikki got Strength because she would need it, Jessica (maybe) got Mirror Jump Soul Share because she would need it. Isaac got Prophetic Powers because that was his path.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 18, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> D.L. should have phased both himself and Nikki. Maybe he was just trying to save her, didn't have time to think?




I enjoy Heroes, it's a great show and a lot of fun. It has many plot holes and the plot devices are so transparent sometimes that if I pay too much attention to the show I enjoy it less.

DL needed to sacrifice himself, so he did, I think. If he was smart he'd have phased through the floor with her as soon as they found out where Micah was, and went for vengeance later. Or any number of other options. Killing Linderman before he finished the offer to Jessica for instance.

I like to debate some of the more fun aspects, but it's like the Ted Didn't Explode thing. To me it's obvious that they wanted him to scream before dying, and they don't feel they need to justify it much. I DO think this will hurt the show in later seasons if they get much worse with it, but right now it's still new and fun.



> Also, I got the impression, too, that Hiro's dad was immortal.





I found the training so silly that I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention. Magic Osmosis Sword Training is fine with me, for learning to use a sword.

He's STILL not dueling Sylar with swords though, so the training is STILL silly to me. 

For the same reason, the Japanese subtitled with English was great at first, but doesn't lend itself to Distracted Watching. I also think it hilarious that India doesn't get subtitles, but instead everyone there speaks British accented.
(Granted, I've never been to India, maybe they all speak like that in their crowded markets.)


----------



## Fast Learner (May 18, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I also think it hilarious that India doesn't get subtitles, but instead everyone there speaks British accented.
> (Granted, I've never been to India, maybe they all speak like that in their crowded markets.)



Well, lots of folks in India do speak British-accented English (though it's more Indian-accented, which sounds largely British), and English is the language business and government work is done in _when folks aren't speaking Hindi_, but no, it's unlikely that the folks in most crowded markets would be all speaking English.

Interestingly, the actor who plays Mohinder is US born and raised, and his normal accent is pretty generic American.


----------



## papastebu (May 18, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Well, lots of folks in India do speak British-accented English (though it's more Indian-accented, which sounds largely British), and English is the language business and government work is done in _when folks aren't speaking Hindi_, but no, it's unlikely that the folks in most crowded markets would be all speaking English.
> 
> Interestingly, the actor who plays Mohinder is US born and raised, and his normal accent is pretty generic American.



Japanime _always_ has subtitles. Of course, by that logic, every scene where Mohinder is talking to one of his countrymen should involve a snazzy song and dance number, a la Bollywood.  
To be totally honest, though, I never noticed this until now.    I guess I'm just so used to hearing Indians speak English in a semi-British accent that it never occurred to me to question that.


----------



## papastebu (May 18, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> Or more likely than any of that is that it is easier for the writers to make the characters archetypes and have their personalities make sense with their powers rather than it being something they actively thought out.



This is interesting. Nathan, to me, has always seemed like someone who was a bit earthbound, as the older sibling, and didn't exactly like it. Part of him, maybe, has always wanted to fly away. I wonder if this was the way Kring & Company decided on some of the abilities? Cool idea.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 18, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> I found the training so silly that I wasn't paying a whole lot of attention.




The training was silly. Evil Sulu was telling Hiro to let Ando die. But the training was a poor method of conveying the information to Hiro or to the viewers at home.



			
				papastebu said:
			
		

> ...involve a snazzy song and dance number, a la Bollywood.




I think that requires its own separate superpower.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 18, 2007)

Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> ..."NICE, bet it's really some crappy dollar bin comic she made look like Silver Surfer #1..."




Do her powers work like that? I mean, when the object is not in contact with her and is being closely examined by another person.


----------



## Vocenoctum (May 18, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Do her powers work like that? I mean, when the object is not in contact with her and is being closely examined by another person.




I don't think any power has ever had their limits explained.


----------



## papastebu (May 18, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Do her powers work like that? I mean, when the object is not in contact with her and is being closely examined by another person.



(S)he also said, "I can make you see anything I want."


----------



## Shalimar (May 18, 2007)

It could just be that her 'normal' appearance isn't her real appearance as she suggests to Mika, and that she is just happy that Mika seems to actually like her (kidnapping aside).  Then again this could be the stereotypical online anonymity thing and she is really a he and a total nerd, but I doubt it.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (May 18, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> The training was silly. Evil Sulu was telling Hiro to let Ando die. But the training was a poor method of conveying the information to Hiro or to the viewers at home.




I'm curious why everyone thinks he was telling Hiro to let Ando die.  The parable, as I recall, was that when the dragon demanded the life of the princess, Kensei cut out his own heart and offered it to the dragon.  The message I took from the parable was that to save Ando, someone Hiro cares deeply about, he must be willing to sacrifice himself.  

Are others looking at Ando being Hiro's heart that he must be willing to give up to save the World?


----------



## occam (May 18, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> It works, kind of, but I would guess that it actually goes in the other direction and that the personality is a reflection of the power, even before it manifests.  Claire doesn't quite make sense otherwise, and I don't buy Nathan, either.  His power was manifesting itself when Peter was trying to fly way back at the beginning of the season - Peter was siphoning some of it.  If it were need/desire based, I would think Nathan would have expressed healing powers ala Linderman to heal his wife.
> 
> Or more likely than any of that is that it is easier for the writers to make the characters archetypes and have their personalities make sense with their powers rather than it being something they actively thought out.




One of the fundamental conceits of the show has been that their powers and personalities are related; Tim Kring and the writers always point to their "character-driven" stories as the distinguishing characteristic of _Heroes_. Also according to the writers, though, the power that manifests for a particular character isn't based on need, and doesn't represent a personality-based crystallization of some latent raw power; the relationship is a thematic one. The difference may be subtle, though, and in practice may not actually matter.


----------



## occam (May 18, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> Are others looking at Ando being Hiro's heart that he must be willing to give up to save the World?




I thought of it as Hiro needing to sacrifice his innocence, to become a killer like Future Hiro (who might definitely be described as heartless).


----------



## Truth Seeker (May 18, 2007)

Hey guys and gals...given what is coming up for Monday. I will be probably doing a special setup on Sunday night. If anyone remembers the mid-season finale setup I did, yes...I am going to top myself.

Wish me luck.


----------



## F5 (May 18, 2007)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> Nathan first flew to escape the wreck that crippled his wife, so he had powers before (albeit moments before) she needed to be healed.
> 
> So, his power could have been a survival reflex to leave the wreck, hence why he developed flying.




It still fits in with the "personality shapes your powers" theory.  Why didn't Nathan develop a power that could save his wife?  Because he's inherently selfish.  He developed a power that could save himself.  He doesn't LIKE that about hinself, and he's trying to make himself better, but that's how it is.



			
				TheGrumpyCelt said:
			
		

> Do her powers work like that? I mean, when the object is not in contact with her and is being closely examined by another person.




When Micah was making his escape attempt, she illusion-ized the hallway, so it looked like he kept going into the same room over and over.  She defintely has the ability to produce environmental illusions, as well as personal ones.   

I wonder if she could create the illusion of, say, an atomic bomb going off in the middle of downtown manhattan?


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 19, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> (S)he also said, "I can make you see anything I want."




That I interesting – that Candice might be a “he.” That said, I wonder how close the illusion powers will hold up to close scrutiny. I mean, if someone who is familiar with the real Silver Surfer No. 1 looked at the one Candice provided Mica, could they tell the difference?

It probably depends on the actual nature of the power. It is a psionic “You Will Believe This” type of thing, or an external illusion? If it is an external illusion, then it is less likely to hold up to close scrutiny.



			
				Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> Are others looking at Ando being Hiro's heart that he must be willing to give up to save the World?




That was my interpretation of it – that he needed to sacrifice Ando, which was also sacrificing his innocence and his heart, so as to become a better killer and warrior in the future.



			
				Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Kaito is, apparently, a master of the sword, like Takezo Kensei.




I am somewhat ambivalent about the possibility of an immortal character… who runs around, fighting battles with a katana against other powered individuals. My own interpretation of the reflection was he was simply reminiscing about his own youth, running around with Pre-Evil Linderman and Pre-Dead Patrelli.

However, if the alleged immortality is less like that of the Highlander and more like that of Doro in the novel _Wild Seed_ (the most tragic and interesting possibility) or Dana in the novel _Kindred_ (which would be keeping with Hiro’s own powers actually) it could work for the story and not be hooky.


----------



## Randolpho (May 19, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> That was my interpretation of it – that he needed to sacrifice Ando, which was also sacrificing his innocence and his heart, so as to become a better killer and warrior in the future.




But Hiro doesn't *like* what he becomes in the future. Ando told him (IIRC) that his death affected future Hiro. Hiro wants to keep Ando from dying.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 19, 2007)

Randolpho said:
			
		

> But Hiro doesn't *like* what he becomes in the future.




What children want to be is separate from what their parents want them to be.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (May 19, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> What children want to be is separate from what their parents want them to be.



 And yet parents are not always right (shh, don't let my kids hear me say that!)


----------



## WayneLigon (May 20, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> That I interesting – that Candice might be a “he.” That said, I wonder how close the illusion powers will hold up to close scrutiny. I mean, if someone who is familiar with the real Silver Surfer No. 1 looked at the one Candice provided Mica, could they tell the difference?




Bennet didn't notice his own wife had been replaced, but then he's probably long since been at that stage of marriage where he's so comfortable around her that he doesn't scrutinize. Given his job, though, I'd think he'd see through an inconsistancy very quickly. Could go either way.



			
				The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> It probably depends on the actual nature of the power. It is a psionic “You Will Believe This” type of thing, or an external illusion? If it is an external illusion, then it is less likely to hold up to close scrutiny.




Good question. If it was a purely visual thing, then maybe Micah would not be able to hold a comic. But it's it's purely psionic, then it might not work through cameras; since Sylar was able to appear as Nathan, it must work through cameras and other mediums. Could be both.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (May 20, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> And yet parents are not always right (shh, don't let my kids hear me say that!)




I didn't say they were. I was simply making a point about what lesson Evil Sulu was trying to impart. The whole "kill 4-million or so people" as a good thing is morally reprehensible in addition to being strategically unsound. But letting Ando die does fall in line with that philosophy. And I'm totally telling your kids you said that.



			
				WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Bennet didn't notice his own wife had been replaced...




They also had less than five minutes together and, at the risk of being crass, they did not go to bed.


----------



## noretoc (May 20, 2007)

I also think that need makes the powers.  Mohinder talks about an evolutionary jump, and things evolve out of need.  DL was in prison, and needed to get out.  Nikki needed to be strong.  Micah needed to be smart and do something that would earn money.  Nathan needed to fly to get out of there.  Peter needed to be everything for everyone.  I may be wrong, but wasn't Hiro always late.  He needed a way to slow down time.  Claire needed to survive the fire.  Parkman maybe needed a way to know how to pass the test.  Just my opinion though.  For heroes, that evolutionary jumps happens fast!


----------



## Randolpho (May 21, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I didn't say they were. I was simply making a point about what lesson Evil Sulu was trying to impart. The whole "kill 4-million or so people" as a good thing is morally reprehensible in addition to being strategically unsound. But letting Ando die does fall in line with that philosophy. And I'm totally telling your kids you said that.




But I don't get the feeling that that's who Evil Sulu really is. Although his character (like just about every other character) turned around from his earlier portrayal, I got the feeling from this episode that he honestly felt that the ends did not justify the means, and that sacrificing Ando, even if it makes Hiro bad-ass, was *not* a Good Thing(tm).


----------



## RigaMortus2 (May 21, 2007)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> It works, kind of, but I would guess that it actually goes in the other direction and that the personality is a reflection of the power, even before it manifests.  Claire doesn't quite make sense otherwise,




Well, the writers mentioned that Claire is the stereotypical teenager, who thinks they are invincible.  In Claire's case, it is literally true.


----------

