# Joker Actor Named for Next Batman Movie



## Yellow Sign (Jul 20, 2006)

> Straight from the floor of Comic-Con 2006 in San Diego, Movieweb.com and SuperHeroFlix.com has learned that Heath Ledger will be playing the Joker in the next installment of the Batman movie franchise.
> 
> The film is currently in pre-production and does not have a title at this time.




http://www.movieweb.com/news/37/13637.php


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## Archetype (Jul 20, 2006)

Holee Open Invitation For Mockery, Batman!

Just think of all the "BrokeBat" parodies this will produce.  Cool.  

Actually, if true, this is a very good choice for a Joker to match Bale's Batman.  He will need a younger, more physical opponent to keep up with the level of ramped-up martial arts that the new series employs.  They even made Liam Neeson look like a competent hand-to-hand fighter in the first one.  

And I think Heath Ledger has the chops to pull off the "insane Joker" vibe needed.  He surprised a lot of people with his acting ability in _Brokeback Mountain_ (Oscar-nominated, remember) and I can see him being very convincing in this part.

Good news!


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## Ranger REG (Jul 20, 2006)

I would have chosen Jude Law.


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## D.Shaffer (Jul 20, 2006)

I need to hear his laugh before I'm convinced.


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## mmu1 (Jul 20, 2006)

I've got nothing against Ledger as such, but I just can't picture him as Joker. And while I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, he hasn't especially impressed me with his acting ability in all the other roles I've seen him in.

Meh. It doesn't really matter until it's fully confirmed, anyway.


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## Jamdin (Jul 20, 2006)

I can't see Heath Ledger as the Joker either.


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## Mercule (Jul 20, 2006)

I think he can pull it off.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jul 20, 2006)

He wouldn't have been my first choice...but Bale wasn't either, and he was perfect.

If the laugh is good, he'll nail it.


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## reanjr (Jul 20, 2006)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> And while I haven't seen Brokeback Mountain, he hasn't especially impressed me with his acting ability in all the other roles I've seen him in.




Phenomenal actor.


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## Nightfall (Jul 20, 2006)

I'm in the wait and see mode. As long as they keep the momentum they had with this new Batman, then I'll be ready.


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## Klaus (Jul 20, 2006)

I'll believe it when someone other than a 'floor' confirms it.

Still rooting for Adrien Brody or Vincent Cassel.


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## Pyrex (Jul 20, 2006)

Rumor I heard was that Crispin Glover was 2nd in line behind Ledger.

I think either of them would do well though.


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## KenM (Jul 21, 2006)

There was a net rumor awhile ago that Jake Gyllenhaal would be playing Harvey Dent. I can picture the Brokeback Mountain jokes that would go with the batman begins sequel if they got both of the main actors from it.


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## paradox42 (Jul 21, 2006)

Crispin Glover would be stellar as the Joker! But, assuming this Ledger tidbit is true, I'm willing to wait and see. As other posters commented, the laugh is critical; if he gets that right the character will follow.


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## ddvmor (Jul 21, 2006)

Archetype said:
			
		

> And I think Heath Ledger has the chops to pull off the "insane Joker" vibe needed.  He surprised a lot of people with his acting ability in _Brokeback Mountain_




What acting ability did he demonstrate in Brokeback Mountain?  All I recall is a bit of squinting and some gravel kicking...  This was the most mind-numbingly dull movie I ever watched... and it WOULDN"T END!  

That said, I've seen him in a couple of other things and he's a good enough actor.  Lets see what he does with it.


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## fett527 (Jul 21, 2006)

Does this mean Harley Quinn will have beer flavored nipples?


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## sniffles (Jul 21, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> I would have chosen Jude Law.



Me, too. Too bad Cilian Murphy already appeared as the Scarecrow-type psychiatrist. He would have made a very scary Joker.


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## Klaus (Jul 21, 2006)

Vincent Cassel, people. His role in Elizabeth (with all the giggling) + his role in Brotherhood of the Wolf (with all the creepiness) = Joker goodness!


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 21, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Vincent Cassel, people. His role in Elizabeth (with all the giggling) + his role in Brotherhood of the Wolf (with all the creepiness) = Joker goodness!



I hadn't considered him, but damnit, that's a good idea.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 21, 2006)

Enhanched:


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## Klaus (Jul 22, 2006)

Thanks for the pic, VB!

I worked on it a bit more.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 22, 2006)

Yes, I didn't want to overdo it, I was trying to keep with the Batman Begins style of believeable comicbookisms.


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## Klaus (Jul 22, 2006)

Yeah, but with the Joker you can go further down the road. He need not be pasty-white like Jack Nicholson was, but he can certainly look albino. The green hair and red lips could be affectations, make-up he applies to more closely resemble his namesake.


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## Felon (Jul 22, 2006)

reanjr said:
			
		

> Phenomenal actor.




Where is this glowing appraisal of his acting ability derived from? In Brokeback, he was just this mumbling, inarticulate schlub. The only other movie I recall him from is The Brothers Grimm, which was nothing special either.

I"ll have to go by IMDB sometime and try to figure out what the big deal is...


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## Ranger REG (Jul 22, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Yeah, but with the Joker you can go further down the road. He need not be pasty-white like Jack Nicholson was, but he can certainly look albino. The green hair and red lips could be affectations, make-up he applies to more closely resemble his namesake.



As long he's a deranged yet clever psychopath that likes to pull dangerous, fatal pranks -- resembling a fraction of my macabre sense of dark humor -- that keeps him laughing, that's fine by me.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jul 23, 2006)

Felon said:
			
		

> Where is this glowing appraisal of his acting ability derived from? In Brokeback, he was just this mumbling, inarticulate schlub. The only other movie I recall him from is The Brothers Grimm, which was nothing special either.




He did a pretty good job in Roar, as I recall. Which, oddly enough, is the last thing I ever recall having seen him in. (Never watched Brokeback, Brothers Grimm, or that Knight's Tale movie whatever it was.)


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## RigaMortus2 (Jul 23, 2006)

I think Vinny Chase would make a good Joker.  He has the smile...


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## fett527 (Jul 24, 2006)

Apparently no one saw 10 Things I Hate About You.

:shrug:


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## frankthedm (Jul 24, 2006)

Anybody think they will be taking jabs a Botoxtm treatments with this Mr J.? So easy, so on the money.


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## Teflon Billy (Jul 24, 2006)

Crispin Glover would be my choice...


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## Ranger REG (Jul 29, 2006)

I like the third picture, *Teflon Billy.*

Crispin should be reserved for the Riddler ... or a fairly tall Penguin.


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## John Crichton (Jul 29, 2006)

I like Glover for Two-Face, myself...


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## Boddha (Jul 29, 2006)

I hope this rumour is wrong, I don't think Ledger could pull this off.  Cassel would suit the part a lot better.


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## reanjr (Jul 29, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Vincent Cassel, people. His role in Elizabeth (with all the giggling) + his role in Brotherhood of the Wolf (with all the creepiness) = Joker goodness!




Can he do a convincing American accent?  I've never seen him in a role as an American...


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## reanjr (Jul 29, 2006)

Felon said:
			
		

> Where is this glowing appraisal of his acting ability derived from?




I suppose if you haven't had much contact with the type of character he was playing (I did some growing up in Montana) it might not seem as good a performance as it really was.


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## reanjr (Jul 29, 2006)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Crispin Glover would be my choice...




I've not seen him in a role that is boisterous and outgoing like the joker so I'm not sure of his ability to play a character with that much energy.  Is there some role you can point out?


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## Dark Jezter (Jul 29, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> I like the third picture, *Teflon Billy.*



 Damn, you beat me to it!

I was going to say the _exact_ same thing.


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## Ranger REG (Jul 29, 2006)

reanjr said:
			
		

> Can he do a convincing American accent?  I've never seen him in a role as an American...



Who's to say Joker has to be an American (with a New England accent)? BTW, Heath did played a colonist who fought in the American Revolutionary War with "father" Mel Gibson (see _Patriot_).


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## Klaus (Jul 29, 2006)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Who's to say Joker has to be an American (with a New England accent)? BTW, Heath did played a colonist who fought in the American Revolutionary War with "father" Mel Gibson (see _Patriot_).



 Reanjr was asking about Vincent Cassel.

Cassel has an added bonus: he can convince his wife, Monica Bellucci, to play Poison Ivy...


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## WayneLigon (Aug 1, 2006)

Newsarama says Ledger is confirmed, with an OK from Warners; looking for an official announcement tomorrow. 

Not my first choice certainly, but we'll see what he can do with a competent director and script. 

We also have a title:

The Dark Knight


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## Nightfall (Aug 1, 2006)

I guess it's just me, but I think they could have worked in a better title...


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## Klaus (Aug 1, 2006)

The only way to make that title better is to have it as The Dark Knight Detective.

But it's still better than Batman Continues... 

Hopefully Heath Ledger will pull a Tom Hanks/Matt Damon/Christian Bale stunt and get a lot skinnier for his turn as the Joker.


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## Nightfall (Aug 1, 2006)

I was think "The Dark Knight Returns" or "Wild Knights", or even "Knight of the Joker." Just a few titles that I had spinning in my mind. You are right however, Claudio, better than Batman Continues.  

Just have to wait and see what happens with Heath. I have hopes with Bale and Singer still on this project, but we'll see.


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## freebfrost (Aug 2, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> I was think "The Dark Knight Returns" or "Wild Knights", or even "Knight of the Joker."



You can't have the Dark Knight returning unless he's already been here - we've only had Batman Beginning at this point with no Dark Knight references to go with...    



> Just have to wait and see what happens with Heath. I have hopes with Bale and Singer still on this project, but we'll see.



I'm 100% confident in any choices that Nolan makes at this point.  

What does Singer have to do with it?  Are they filming "World's Finest" at the same time?  (That would be cool, but I don't think DC has made that leap yet, nor has Marvel... quite.)


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## Klaus (Aug 2, 2006)

The thing that makes me not worry about Ledger as Joker is that none of the people involved in this movie are slackers. Ledger simply can't phone in his performance, with Christopher Nolan directing and Christian Bale, Gary Oldman, Mprgan Freeman and Michael Caine on the set. You HAVE to bring your A-game to the table.


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## Nightfall (Aug 2, 2006)

Klaus,

Agreed. They will most certainly not allow Ledger to phone it in by any standards. Bale and Nolan especially. 

Free,

Well he's "returning" to his roots and returning to Gothman for retribution. And no I got Singer confused with Nolan since they both did comic book adaptations. I'm not worried either with Nolan helming it. But I do have reservations about Ledger. We'll see. I still say "Wild Knights" or "Knight of the Joker" are some good titles to have used instead.


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## freebfrost (Aug 2, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Well he's "returning" to his roots and returning to Gothman for retribution. And no I got Singer confused with Nolan since they both did comic book adaptations. I'm not worried either with Nolan helming it. But I do have reservations about Ledger. We'll see. I still say "Wild Knights" or "Knight of the Joker" are some good titles to have used instead.



I think I'll have to disagree Nightfall - much of "Begins" was based on material from the Year One storyline, so Batman is still learning the ropes, so to speak.  He's not _yet_ the Dark Knight...

And when I hear "Wild Knights," I start imagining Denise Richards running around naked...


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## Nightfall (Aug 2, 2006)

Well I couldn't find one that didn't make me laugh either trying to use playing card references or just the word Joker. Well except Knight of the Joker. 

This might be year one but I think word might be spreading about the "influence" Batman has on the mean streets of Gotham.


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## Klaus (Aug 2, 2006)

There *has* been talks (musings, if you will) of putting Batman and Superman together in a movie later down the line. Brandon Routh said there'd be no point in having them fight, and they would never oppose each other unless one of them was being controlled by an outside force.

I have to say, the prospect of a movie directed by Nolan, produced by Singer, with Bale and Routh as the World's Finest would sit very well with me.


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## Nightfall (Aug 2, 2006)

Agreed Klaus. It would make for an interesting fight. But I don't necessarily think there needs to be outside "forces" controlling one of them. Maybe just the fact Batman is unorthodox enough to convince Supes he might need to take down the vilgante. Then we'll see who's really....the World's Finest!


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## freebfrost (Aug 2, 2006)

I'm sure you two have already seen this, but just in case anyone hasn't, it's worth sharing at this point...

World's Finest fan film


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## Nightfall (Aug 2, 2006)

Free,

Thanks for the link!


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## Klaus (Aug 2, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Agreed Klaus. It would make for an interesting fight. But I don't necessarily think there needs to be outside "forces" controlling one of them. Maybe just the fact Batman is unorthodox enough to convince Supes he might need to take down the vilgante. Then we'll see who's really....the World's Finest!



 The whole "Superman and Batman as antagonists" is too 80s. Now they're back to being friends (who still sometimes get mad at each other, like all real friends), as showcased in the recent Justice League of America #0.

I'd much rather have the synergy from the Batman/Superman animated movie, including Bruce Wayne making a move on Lois Lane!


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## freebfrost (Aug 2, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> The whole "Superman and Batman as antagonists" is too 80s. Now they're back to being friends (who still sometimes get mad at each other, like all real friends), as showcased in the recent Justice League of America #0.



But there's always going to be tension between them -  it's the Big Blue Boy Scout and the Dark Knight after all and their styles are very different.  Bruce is quite willing to do things that Clark would find distasteful.  Hence their friendship - each can help the other with situations that they couldn't or wouldn't be able to resolve by themselves.  Very Yin/Yang.


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## Zander (Aug 2, 2006)

freebfrost said:
			
		

> But there's always going to be tension between them -  it's the Big Blue Boy Scout and the Dark Knight after all and their styles are very different.  Bruce is quite willing to do things that Clark would find distasteful.



Bat is CG while Supes is LG?


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## Everett (Aug 2, 2006)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> Agreed. They will most certainly not allow Ledger to phone it in by any standards. Bale and Nolan especially.
> 
> Free,
> 
> Well he's "returning" to his roots and returning to Gothman for retribution. And no I got Singer confused with Nolan since they both did comic book adaptations. I'm not worried either with Nolan helming it. But I do have reservations about Ledger. We'll see. I still say "Wild Knights" or "Knight of the Joker" are some good titles to have used instead.




I think Heath Ledger will surprise a lot of people.  And I think it's a good casting decision.  It's not an expected choice.


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## Klaus (Aug 2, 2006)

Zander said:
			
		

> Bat is CG while Supes is LG?



 More like NG and LG, or LG and LG (exalted).

I'd say Green Arrow was CG for most of his career.


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## freebfrost (Aug 2, 2006)

Zander said:
			
		

> Bat is CG while Supes is LG?



Superman is clearly LG, but I'd have to say that Batman falls into CG(N) territory - he clearly follows his own code of law, which happens to closely match a lot of society's laws, but he's not above doing his own thing whenever he feels the need to accomplish his goals.  He also struggles to keep his anger under control, and sometimes moves into darker waters, hence the neutral tendency.


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## Klaus (Aug 2, 2006)

The only time Batman was veering towards Neutrality was after Jason Todd's death, when he began to injure criminals far more than he had to. This violent tendency led Tim Drake to try and persuade Nightwing into going back to the Robin gig.

I could even see Batman as LG, trying to bring order to the chaos (and making him all the more opposed to the Joker's CE). He's just a different LG than Superman.


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## freebfrost (Aug 2, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> The only time Batman was veering towards Neutrality was after Jason Todd's death, when he began to injure criminals far more than he had to. This violent tendency led Tim Drake to try and persuade Nightwing into going back to the Robin gig.



Not so.

Golden Age and Silver Age Batman's were quite violent at times.  Silver Age Batman stood by while young Robin killed one of Zucco's thugs while taking steps to ensure Zucco would get the electric chair, and I have no idea how many criminals Golden Age Batman actually murdered, though I remember he and Robin killed off a bunch of the Green Dragon Tong members by crushing them underneath a statue...

Good?


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## Mistwell (Aug 2, 2006)

reanjr said:
			
		

> Can he do a convincing American accent?  I've never seen him in a role as an American...




Well Christian Bale is already faking the accent, why not add yet another actor faking an American accent 

I'm fine with Ledger as Joker, though I am not all that pleased that they are returning to Joker when that role was already done quite to my satisfaction in the first Batman movie.


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## Klaus (Aug 3, 2006)

freebfrost said:
			
		

> Not so.
> 
> Golden Age and Silver Age Batman's were quite violent at times.  Silver Age Batman stood by while young Robin killed one of Zucco's thugs while taking steps to ensure Zucco would get the electric chair, and I have no idea how many criminals Golden Age Batman actually murdered, though I remember he and Robin killed off a bunch of the Green Dragon Tong members by crushing them underneath a statue...
> 
> Good?



 And in the Golden Age Batman carried a handgun around and sometimes executed criminals...

With characters with such a long history and so many interpretations, you have to go with what's more recognizable/current. So the Post-Year One Batman only veered to Neutrality after Jason Todd died. Nightwing was with him when Tony Zucco was released from jail, and Batman did nothing when Zucco was shot and killed mere steps from the prison door. Nightwing confronted him that he knew Zucco was gonna get killed, but then Batman snapped out of it and denied knowing that. This issue was illustrated by Pat Broderick, and was an intervention of sorts, which only ended in A Death In The Family, when Tim Drake began the training to be Robin.


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## freebfrost (Aug 3, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> With characters with such a long history and so many interpretations, you have to go with what's more recognizable/current.



But that's a slippery slope Klaus.

Killing Joke was not meant to be canon in the Modern Age, but it has become so.  Do you consider Miller canon, because Batman kills the Joker in his works?

It's easy to pick any particular series and say, for example, that based on _XYZ_ particular story, Superman and Batman are evil.  I prefer to look at the character as a whole over their entire history.  As such, Batman clearly has a very dark side that he barely keeps in control.  He constantly treads the line between good and evil, and sometimes succumbs to his darker self.  YMMV.


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## Klaus (Aug 3, 2006)

Yes, Killing Joke wasn't meant to be canon, and Alan Moore himself stated that if he knew the novel would mean the end of Barbara Gordon as Batgirl, he wouldn't have included that (and I still cling to the hope that she might be back).

As for Miller, Dark Knight Returns is great, but it's Elseworlds. And I still pretend DK2 never happened. :shudder:"

One of the more common reactions to the current (post-Infinite Crisis) Batman is that he's finally acting like Batman again.


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## Felon (Aug 3, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> And in the Golden Age Batman carried a handgun around and sometimes executed criminals...




This myth about the golden-age Batman being a gun-toting killer is based on pure hyperbole. Batman employed a gun in one or two instances, never killed anyone with it, and certainly never executed anyone in cold blood. It was something Bob Kane experimented with early in Batman's character _very briefly_ before deciding it didn't suit the character.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 4, 2006)

Felon said:
			
		

> This myth about the golden-age Batman being a gun-toting killer is based on pure hyperbole. Batman employed a gun in one or two instances, never killed anyone with it, and certainly never executed anyone in cold blood. It was something Bob Kane experimented with early in Batman's character _very briefly_ before deciding it didn't suit the character.



I'll have you know I just read a lot of Golden Age Batman recently, and he did shoot a criminal, in the heart, while he was helpless.

The criminal was a vampire, of course. It was a silver bullet. Golden Age Batman was pretty weird.

Demiurge out.


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## KenM (Aug 4, 2006)

IIRC the reason Batman first used guns was Bob Kane wanted him to be more like the pulp character The Shadow.


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## Wolv0rine (Aug 4, 2006)

Granted I haven't read a whole LOT of golden age Bat-Man comics, but wasn't it pretty staple in the early golden age that crooks tended to get dead like, a LOT?  Puched over cliffs, planes blown up, all that jazz?
I read someone where once (references lost in the obscurity of my memory) that while Bat-Man didn't tote a gun and shoot people (except for the extremely limited number of times he did) that regardless, he seemed to be the last thing a lot of crooks ever saw.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 4, 2006)

KenM said:
			
		

> IIRC the reason Batman first used guns was Bob Kane wanted him to be more like the pulp character The Shadow.



At least he didn't copy the laughter.


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## freebfrost (Aug 4, 2006)

Klaus said:
			
		

> As for Miller, Dark Knight Returns is great, but it's Elseworlds. And I still pretend DK2 never happened. :shudder:"



I never even read it because of reactions like this.    



> One of the more common reactions to the current (post-Infinite Crisis) Batman is that he's finally acting like Batman again.



QFT.


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## Klaus (Aug 5, 2006)

You never read DK2?

I envy you ever so much...

Now I just need to pretend All-Star Batman & Robin The Boy Wonder doesn't exist, either, and stick with All-Star Superman.

And anticipate the Marv Wolfman/Dan Jurgens run on Nightwing.


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## Nightfall (Aug 5, 2006)

ANYWAY, I'm sorry I got on the tagent of Batman versus Supes, but I honestly think a good film treat can be done. That's all. It doesn't have to involve mind control, just has to be more like opposing idealogies of 'goodness'. But I do think the move Bruce made in the animated series for Lois was/is a good idea. I think that's something in a way that would be more like Batman, to play his enemy that way psychologically. But we'll see.


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## Felon (Aug 11, 2006)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> I'll have you know I just read a lot of Golden Age Batman recently, and he did shoot a criminal, in the heart, while he was helpless.
> 
> The criminal was a vampire, of course. It was a silver bullet. Golden Age Batman was pretty weird. Demiurge out.




Yep, Batman trying (and failing) to destroy The Monk was one of a couple occasions where he wielded a gun. Of course, dusting an undead is kind of like smashing a robot to pieces. Can you come up with any others?



			
				KenM said:
			
		

> IIRC the reason Batman first used guns was Bob Kane wanted him to be more like the pulp character The Shadow.




Well, the Shadow was the major inflluence on Batman's creation, so Kane experimented with the gun thing and then dropped it.



			
				Wolv0rine said:
			
		

> Granted I haven't read a whole LOT of golden age Bat-Man comics, but wasn't it pretty staple in the early golden age that crooks tended to get dead like, a LOT?  Puched over cliffs, planes blown up, all that jazz?




To be sure, superheroes did not shy away from a "might makes right" mentality. Usually though, the hero did not set out to murder anyone; it's the villain's fault that he falls off a cliff or he shoots the plane's controls so that it goes into a nosedive. Actually, the climax of Batman Begins is very representative of this scenario--"I'm not going to kill you, but I don't have to save you!"


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## Taelorn76 (Aug 11, 2006)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Apparently no one saw 10 Things I Hate About You.
> 
> :shrug:




That is one of the few movies I can watch over and over.


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