# a non-monk unarmed fighter/grappler - doable?



## GlassJaw (Oct 15, 2004)

I've always wanted to try a big brutish warrior type that crushed his opponents with his bare hands.  The problem is that if you use fighter and barbarian levels, your unarmed damage will never increase (a limitation of the 3ed D&D system IMO).

The feat chain is pretty obvious: IUS, Improved Grapple, maybe Jotunbrud from FR (if allowed), Imp Trip maybe, Weapon Focus and Spec (grapple) maybe, and some of the feats fro CW (Clever Wrestling, Close-Quarters Fighting, Earth's Embrace, etc).

Would a character like this be effective at all?


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## the_mighty_agrippa (Oct 15, 2004)

Certainly.  You might also want to check out the Reaping Mauler class in Complete Warrior.

Kalman


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## TheEvil (Oct 15, 2004)

Flaming, Frost, Corrosive, Shocking, Thundering Armor Spikes +5 are your friend.


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## Klaus (Oct 15, 2004)

While base damage doesn't increase, you can offset that by liberally using Power Attack.

Human Ftr 4:
1 - Improved Unarmed Strike
1 Ftr bonus - Power Attack
1 Hum bonus - Improved Grapple
2 Ftr bonus- Weapon Focus (Unarmed Strike)
3 - Improved Trip
4 Ftr bonus - Weapon Specialization (Unarmed Strike)

With Str 16, your unarmed attack is looking to be:
BAB/Grap: +4/+11
Attack: Unarmed strike +8 melee (1d3+5)


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## Sejs (Oct 15, 2004)

Fighter, maybe a level or two of barbarian if you want to get mean.  

5 levels of Shou Disciple (a 5 level PrC from Unapproachable East)
5 levels of Reaping Mauler (a 5 level PrC from Complete Warrior)

Pick up a few feats like Earth's Embrace, Power Attack, Improved Trip, and Karmic Strike and you're good to go.


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## GlassJaw (Oct 15, 2004)

> You might also want to check out the Reaping Mauler class in Complete Warrior




Oh yeah, I've checked it out.  It's tough to meet with those tumble and escape artist ranks if you don't have any rogue levels though.  I was thinking more of a Bbn/Ftr.  Any suggestions on meeting the RM skill req's?


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## GPEKO (Oct 15, 2004)

Klaus said:
			
		

> While base damage doesn't increase, you can offset that by liberally using Power Attack.



I've designed this feat for my character in the 'Living ENworld'. Not extremely powerful but it can useful for what you're looking for.

*MIGHTY PUNCH*[GENERAL]
You know how to put your full weight behind a punch.
Prerequisite: Str 13+, Improved Unarmed Strike, Power Attack.
Benefit: If both your hands are free and you make an unarmed strike, you can add 1.5 time your strength bonus to damage. You can also add to damage twice the number subtracted from your attack rolls when power attacking. You are not considered to be wielding a two-handed weapon for any other purpose (like disarming).
This feat can’t be used in conjunction with the flurry of blows ability. You also can’t use this feat while grappling or when making an unarmed strike with both arms (two weapon fighting).


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## Darklone (Oct 15, 2004)

That's essentially the official Hammerfist feat. Ah well. And it's broooooken for monks.


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## Elder-Basilisk (Oct 15, 2004)

I would stay away from the Reaping Mauler. In general, it's a pretty weak prestige class and its benefits structure means that you can't really play a skilled grappler until you enter the prestige class.

You're better off sticking with fighter and barbarian levels.

Now a few things to keep in mind:
1. You can deal damage with magical armor spikes
2. As a grappler, your primary role isn't to deal damage; it's to incapacitate one foe and take him out of combat. If you win that battle slowly, it's not particularly important--what's important is that the foe does not escape.

So, Imp Grapple, Imp Unarmed Strike, WF: Grapple, and GWF: Grapple, WF and WS Unarmed Strike (applies to grapple damage since grapple deals damage as an unarmed strike) or armor spikes (probably a better choice), power attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Trip, Extra Rage, and Stunning Fist will be your friends. Between them, your grapple check will probably be between two and eight points higher than a monk of similar level's grapple check. And, by mid levels, you'll be able to make more grapple checks per round. Consequently, you will be better at grappling than a monk--even if your damage is somewhat lower.

Of course, grappling doesn't work on a variety of monsters, so you'll want other options. As a fighter/barbarian, you have those. Since you have power attack and the rage feats, a good two-handed weapon--possibly with reach--will be a good addition to your capabilities.


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## Bloodstone Press (Oct 15, 2004)

One of the first core classes I ever developed for the 3.0 system was the Brawler. You can see the 3.0 version of the Brawler right here: 
http://www.bloodstone-press.com/classes.html

 For 3.5, I would add the Improved Grapple feat and several others to the Brawler's list of optional bonus  feats. Perhaps even make Improved Grapple a class ability and get rid of the level based grappling bonus.... 

 The Brute Force ability would also be changed in a way similar to the 3.5 monk's Ki Strike.


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## GlassJaw (Oct 15, 2004)

> WF and WS Unarmed Strike (applies to grapple damage since grapple deals damage as an unarmed strike)




Really?  I'm not so sure.  Check out the SRD:



> WEAPON SPECIALIZATION [GENERAL]
> Choose one type of weapon for which you have already selected the Weapon Focus feat. You can also choose unarmed strike or grapple as your weapon for purposes of this feat




The "or" between unarmed strike and grapple leads me to believe they must be selected separately.  A grapple may deal the same damage as an unarmed strike but that doesn't mean it is an unarmed strike.  Semantics perhaps but it's unclear at best.


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## silentspace (Oct 15, 2004)

Probably not what you're looking for, but the Justiciar (CW) has some pretty cool abilities.


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## Patlin (Oct 15, 2004)

Also not likely to be what you are looking for, but a psychic warrior could be designed to fill this role very well.... especially if you consider claw & bite attacks to be unarmed.  Expansion is a great way to play a REALLY big brutish warrior.


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## BelXiror (Oct 15, 2004)

Another thing to consider is the Goliath from Races of Stone, or the Half-Giant from the Psionics Handbook.

Both get the Powerful Build racial ability, making them count as large for the purposes of grappling/tripping/bullrushing and weapon size/damage.

Both are ECL+1 though, but a Goliath, with +4 str and effective large size, comes out +5 grapple ahead of a human. -1BAB, +2str, +4 size.

Also, since your effective large, you can grapple bigger beasties.


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## shilsen (Oct 15, 2004)

Get bitten by a werebear.


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## warlord (Oct 17, 2004)

theres some greek mythology campaign setting book made ny S&S (I found it at my local shinders) that seems to be exactly what your looking for.


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## John Q. Mayhem (Oct 17, 2004)

BelXiror said:
			
		

> Also, since your effective large, you can grapple bigger beasties.




And since you're technically Medium, it's easier to qualify for Reaping Mauler.  And the Goliath rogue substitution levels might make that easier to stomach.


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## Ezieer (Jan 2, 2005)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> The "or" between unarmed strike and grapple leads me to believe they must be selected separately.  A grapple may deal the same damage as an unarmed strike but that doesn't mean it is an unarmed strike.  Semantics perhaps but it's unclear at best.




*Weapon Focus - unarmed strike* would increase your attack mod by +1 to hit someone with a fist or kick

*Weapon Focus - grapple* would increase your attack mod by +1 to hit someone or specifically hit them with a touch attack to start the grappling process. its not going to do anything beyond that including subsequent grapple checks


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## argo (Jan 2, 2005)

1) see if you can persuade your DM to OK a feat to increase you damage to 1d6.  Its not that unreasonable and a 1d6 weapon that cannot be disarmed and is always "on hand" (oh ho ho! I slay me) is nothing to sneeze at.

2) never forget that as a grapple-twink you job is *not* to kill the enemy.  Your job is to pick any *single* opponent of your size or smaller and remove him from the combat at the expense of sacrificing your own turn: you are trading your actions for his.  Everything else is just gravy.  In many ways the most valuable resource in all of DnD is the "turn" which is what makes grapplers so powerful but if you do not wrap your head around this fundamental concept you will not succede.

Speaking of which, be sure to make friends with the rogue.  You and your opponent both loose you Dex when grappling... "I'll hold him you hit him"

Good luck.


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## Storyteller01 (Jan 2, 2005)

If you're willing to check out OGL sources, then check Mythic Races (FFG). They have a critter called a Stone Grunt. +4 to your ECL, but the 10/+2 DR means no one will hammer on you too much while you focus on grappling one target. I also believe the Stone Grunt is a Large creature.

It also comes with the PrC Seige Grunt. Basically turns you into a living battering ram (you can charge and damage stone walls) and provides energy resistance from fire (all those castles with boiling oil...). 'Course, you can't touch the PrC until you gain 8th level...


Question for everyone out there: Doesn't OA have some nasty feats for those who specialize in grappling (Dragon ran a Class combo called 'The Martial Artist' [Fighter monk])? Things like 'Defensive Throw' and the like?


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## Storyteller01 (Jan 2, 2005)

Hah!! Found it!!!

Stone G.
+4 Str, +2 Con, -4 Dex, -2 Int
Large Creatre
Speed 30
+2 against magic
DR: 10/+2
Does not need to breathe (but they use air to talk)
does not float in water
+2 vs contact/ingested poison
Favoered Class: Fighter
ECL: +4

The PrC can do a sizable chunk of damage to structures every four rounds (charge, run back, charge again...), gives Fire res., and improves the DR.

Catch is you'll be effective 21st if you gain all 10 levels of the PrC, even if you take the fastest possible route.


If I broke any OGL rules, please let me know.


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## dekrass (Jan 2, 2005)

Beyond Monks: The Art of the Fight is an excellent book, featuring the martial artist class. 
The class was a less mystical monk, focused more on combat. 

The pdf from Chainmail Bikini games isn't available anymore, but you might find the print version from Goodman Games.


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## Storyteller01 (Jan 2, 2005)

Have you tried spiked armor?


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## Thanee (Jan 2, 2005)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Would a character like this be effective at all?




Of course, a monk has no big advantage over a fighter in a grapple (in fact, the monk is actually worse, because of the BAB), only a higher unarmed damage.

Bye
Thanee


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## Hannibal Barca (Jan 2, 2005)

Unearthed Arcana has a barbarian variant that gives +4 to grapple checks. Take the Jotunbrud feat from Races of Faerun. Tome and Blood has an alchemical bonus called suregrip that gives +2 to grapple checks. There is a 1st level psionic power that you can manifest as a free(swift?) action that gives +4 to grapple checks. Another 1st level psionic power can make you large (+4 to grapple from size). Also, see the Sharktooth Staff from Savage Species.


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## Thanee (Jan 2, 2005)

I don't think he's looking for magics/psionics, otherwise a druid would also be a fairly potent grappler. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Yig (Jan 2, 2005)

Have you cheked the full version of the reaping mauler class (by the author) ?

http://www.wakinglands.com/htm_files/prestige_classes_reaping_mauler.htm

Might be better than the on in CW.


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## Elder-Basilisk (Jan 3, 2005)

The author's version of the Reaping Mauler class is miles better than the one in CW. If you can get it allowed, it's a very very good prestige class for a grappler. (The CW one, by contrast, is awful).


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## Coredump (Jan 3, 2005)

The replies are focusing on grappling, but if you also are interested in plain unarmed fighting...

Unlike the monk, you can wear armor. You get tons of feats, and will likely have a higher str. With Bbn lvls, you can rage, increasing your tohits and dmg. (also helps for Power attack-hammerfist) 
You get tons of feats, so TWF can come into play for extra attacks
Pick up some masterwork/magical cestus for extra hit/damage lovin'


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