# What exactly is a "death effect"



## Vexed (Nov 1, 2002)

I have a someone in my group who insists anything that would result in a character making a save, and the failure resulting in death would be a death effect.  The examples I have reviewed in the DMG all pertain to magical effects.  Opinions on this? Is anything that results in "save or die" a death effect?


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## Kai Lord (Nov 1, 2002)

For the most part.  Keep in mind that failed saves that kill characters simply due to HP loss don't qualify as Death Attacks, ie failing (or even succeeding) a Reflex save against a Fireball and getting killed.  Obnoxious sig, BTW.


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## James McMurray (Nov 1, 2002)

A death effect is any special ability which is labelled as such. Additionally, any spell with the [Death] descriptor. Everything else is not a death effect.


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## hong (Nov 1, 2002)

James McMurray said:
			
		

> *A death effect is any special ability which is labelled as such. Additionally, any spell with the [Death] descriptor. Everything else is not a death effect. *




Example: disintegrate is not a death effect, although it's a fairly notorious "instakill" spell.


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## Tempuswolf (Nov 1, 2002)

What about death from a massive damage failed save and the assassin's death attack?  Would you enforce the rule "no _raise dead_ vs. death effect" against these two attacks?


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## 0-hr (Nov 1, 2002)

Tempuswolf said:
			
		

> *What about death from a massive damage failed save and the assassin's death attack?  Would you enforce the rule "no raise dead vs. death effect" against these two attacks? *




Read the DMG section on those two attacks. Does either one say that they are a death effect? Is either one a spell with the [Death] descriptor?


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## 0-hr (Nov 1, 2002)

A quick search of the SRD came up with these Death Effects:

Arrow of Slaying
Cleric death domain ability
Circle of Death
Destruction
Finger of Death
Power Word Kill
Slay Living


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## Numion (Nov 1, 2002)

Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that a succesful _Vorpal_ blade attack _isn't_ a death effect? IMHO it should be.


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## AuraSeer (Nov 1, 2002)

Numion said:
			
		

> *Doesn't it seem odd to anyone that a succesful Vorpal blade attack isn't a death effect? IMHO it should be. *



A death effect is something that uses the Power Of Death Itself (cue spooky music!) to kill the target. _Slay Living_ is such an effect, as is _Power Word: Kill_. They simply "turn off" the target's life force like a switch. An autopsy would show a victim to be in perfect health, except for being dead.

A vorpal strike is not a death effect, it just cuts your head off. It's true that most humanoids tend to die rather quickly after that happens, but that's not really the sword's fault.

Another way to look at it: death effects only affect things that are alive. If you cast _Slay Living_ on a zombie, the spell fizzles, because the zombie has no life force for it to affect. However, a vorpal sword would quite happily sever the zombie's head, because all the sword does is the head-chopping part. Maybe the target immediately dies, or maybe it continues on its merry way with its head off; either way, the sword couldn't care less.


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 1, 2002)

wouldn't an easier way to describe a 'death effect' be: whatever is affected by the spell _Death Ward_? ("The subject is immune to all death spells and magical death effects. This spell does not protect against other sorts of attacks, such as hit point loss, poison, petrification, or other effects _even if they might be lethal_.")


btw, i recently made a list of all the spell with descriptors here:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=446369#post446369

so here's all the spells with the 'Death' descriptor:

Circle of Death - Sor/Wiz 6
Death Knell - Clr 2, Death 2 (also Evil)
Destruction - Clr 7, Death 7
Finger of Death - Drd 8, Sor/Wiz 7
Power Word, Kill - Sor/Wiz 9, War 9
Slay Living - Clr 5, Death 5
Wail of the Banshee - Death 9, Sor/Wiz 9 (also Sonic)


and, of course, arrows of slaying and the Death domain ability 
_are_ clearly defined as 'death effects'


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## AuraSeer (Nov 1, 2002)

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *wouldn't an easier way to describe a 'death effect' be: whatever is affected by the spell Death Ward? *



Easier, yes, but it wouldn't be informative. _Death Ward_ states that it protects against death effects, so if we define death effects as things against which the spell protects, we end up with a circular definition.

It'd be as if as if you defined the word "ball" to mean "something round," and the word "round" to mean "ball-shaped." Unless you already know what one or the other means, neither definition is any help.


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## Sejs (Nov 1, 2002)

Spells from the PHB that would be negated by Death Ward:

Circle of Death
Death Knell
Destruction
Finger of Death
Power Word, Kill
Slay Living
Symbol of Death (not listed, but fits the bill)
Wail of the Banshee

Additionally, I'd allow magic items that process the above spells to have their effects negated. Examples:

Vorpal weapons
Arrow of Slaying
Mask of the Skull
Necklace of Strangulation
Scarab of Death


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 1, 2002)

AuraSeer said:
			
		

> *Easier, yes, but it wouldn't be informative. Death Ward states that it protects against death effects, so if we define death effects as things against which the spell protects, we end up with a circular definition. *



i see what you mean, but i thought it might help a little (especially because it says not all 'lethal' effects are death effects...)


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