# Game of Death



## seasong (Mar 15, 2003)

I will be running a Game of Death, starting sometime near the end of this month (March '03). For what one is, check out New Game of Death: Battle Royale of the GAWDS.

The basic premise of this one will be similar to clockworkjoe's, but with less capricious Gawds (but still enough changes over time to force adaptable characters) and me as the referee.

Here is the Game of Death: Hethas' Gambit website, spartan as it is .

Here are the players:

cool hand luke
Jeremy
JDragon
Number47
Saepiroth
Tisvon
DM with a vengence
Breakdaddy
Starman
reapersaurus
Sollir Furryfoot
clockworkjoe

A few teasers about what I'm planning/thinking about (please see the rest of the thread for details):

1. A logically changing arena. The arena will provide situations of wide open fighting, limited visibility fighting, walled-in fighting, dangerous ledges to get shoved off of, hot & cold conditions, wet conditions, and deep concealment fighting. There will be no _exotic_ conditions (antimagic arena, astral plane arena, etc.), just natural physical ones. Each change will happen 5-10 rounds after the last one, and will be preceded by a round of "harmless" change to warn somewhat of what is coming next.

2. What the above means: be prepared for plains-fighting, water fighting, tunnel-fighting, low-visibility-fighting, etc. Here's a preview of my advice section for character design:







> a. Have far and close attacks available to you. The terrain will sometimes prevent far attacks, and a close-in fighter who is on top of you will quickly reduce your options. The arena itself is pretty big, and if you can't get across the arena quickly enough, you'll want far attacks to hit people who are avoiding you.
> 
> b. Be prepared for hot and cold conditions. Be prepared to climb and swim, and be prepared for periods when flying is not an option.
> 
> ...



3. Some spells will be nerfed. Particularly, Harm has a save, Haste doesn't double spell casting, Summon X is classified by CR and somewhat more limited, most planar/turn ethereal/astral spells won't work (teleport, dim door, etc. still do), and polymorph spells will be CR-limited.

4. There will be a few house rules, primarily nerfing magical damage reduction (no effect on barbarians), quick draw, and Quaal's Fricking Tree .

5. This is intended to be a faster paced game. Everyone will send in their turns simultaneously, and I will reply with requests for clarification or alterations if something unexpected crops up (the person you were going to attack isn't going to be there, etc.). Everyone will have 24 hours to send me their actions, and I will then take 1-3 days to process everything (which is still faster than ~150 hours per 6 second round).


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## Jeremy (Mar 15, 2003)

What kind of character generation rules are you looking at?

Books I use are by Wizards of the Coast, AEG, Malhavoc, Mongoose, and Swords & Sorcery.  Plus the Netbook of Feats.

I can email the complete text of any feat, class ability, spell, or item I would like to submit for approval if it is from a book you don't have.

What kind of race/ability/xp/precast defenses/etc. guidelines are there going to be?

Just looking for general information.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 15, 2003)

I'm on this like a sackfull of...


uh...


something that, uh... gets on other things. yeah, that's it.





I think.


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## megamania (Mar 15, 2003)

Wish I could play.  This looks like a good testing ground for a Psychic Warrior multi-class 


Hamanu would be proud


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## Tisvon (Mar 15, 2003)

I'd like to play too.


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## seasong (Mar 15, 2003)

Hi Jeremy!

Sources: The core books are open. OGL stuff will be considered on a case-by-case basis. Non-OGL stuff will not be considered at all, since I will not be able to make the information available to all players. I will not post WHO asked about any given OGL thing I allow, I will just post that it exists, that I allowed it, and what its rulse are.

I will not allow psionics at all - this isn't a balance issue, I just don't know the rules well enough to adjudicate them fairly.

If you have something specific that you don't want to reveal, my email is "seasong at texas dot net".

Ability Scores: Point buy. Don't know the points yet. I might use one of these point buy systems instead, but I'll give adequate warning. I'll also listen to the preferences of potential players .

Race: I use Savage Species. I will consider each race on a case-by-case basis.

XP: 15th level. I like that in clockworkjoe's game, and it seems to be open to the most variety of strategies.

Precast/etc.: I'm still thinking about this. Any suggestions?


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## Number47 (Mar 15, 2003)

First, you need to give us a general idea of what level you are running at. Preferably with point-buy and starting gold. Accepted sources will have to be determined very soon. Equipment, feats and spells not allowed or altered would be appreciated. My suggestion for Quaal's Tree Token would be to treat it as a fast-growing tree from where it lands. Thus, it would help get you out of a dragon's mouth, but wouldn't do too much if used while flying. It might cause somebody who doesn't succeed a Reflex save to be caught up in it and thus have to get down from the tree (no damage).

For your own consideration, you should think about already-cast spells and prep time. In Macbrea's game, we had no ready spells, but we had a single prep round. In clockworkjoe's, we could have any spell running that lasts longer than 12 hours. It wasn't stated, but I presumed it to mean that 12 hours had expired for the spell.

Magic item questions you have to consider are: Can the character have used something like Incense of Meditation the night before? Can a spell or scroll with a permanent effect already be in place? Adjust the cost of the spell storing Ioun Stone? Charge spellcasting costs for spells stored in items the character cannot cast? Allow Candle of Invocation? Allow single arrows to be enchanted? Partially charged items?


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## seasong (Mar 15, 2003)

megamania said:
			
		

> Wish I could play.  This looks like a good testing ground for a Psychic Warrior multi-class



I'm currently planning on not allowing psionics. I don't have the books, myself, and from what I've read on the SRD, I've mainly determined that I don't understand them well enough to fairly adjudicate. Would you still want to play?


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## seasong (Mar 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> First, you need to give us a general idea of what level you are running at.



15th







> Preferably with point-buy and starting gold.



Point buy is up for commentary - I'd like to stick to something "reasonable" but still be "creme de la creme". Starting gold will be 200,000 GP - standard for 15th.







> Accepted sources will have to be determined very soon.



See above. Core + case-by-case OGL. No closed source will be allowed, as I can't make sure everyone has it available to them. So, no MM II, FRCS, OA, etc.







> Equipment, feats and spells not allowed or altered would be appreciated.



Sure, I'll get that up.







> My suggestion for Quaal's Tree Token would be to treat it as a fast-growing tree from where it lands. Thus, it would help get you out of a dragon's mouth, but wouldn't do too much if used while flying. It might cause somebody who doesn't succeed a Reflex save to be caught up in it and thus have to get down from the tree (no damage).



From the introductory rules list I'm working on:
"_Quaal's Feather Token (Tree): The tree springs forth from the earth, and must have a place to root. A living creature of at least Large size is considered a sufficient place to root. Living creatures get a Fortitude save (DC 15) to resist being rooted in; on a success, the feather token starts to transform but loses its magic; on a failure, the token roots in the creature, doing 3d6 damage, or 10d6 damage if internal (in a creature's mouth, for example)._"







> For your own consideration, you should think about already-cast spells and prep time. In Macbrea's game, we had no ready spells, but we had a single prep round. In clockworkjoe's, we could have any spell running that lasts longer than 12 hours. It wasn't stated, but I presumed it to mean that 12 hours had expired for the spell.



Hm... I think I like the prep round better. However, competitors will appear in a puff of smoke in the arena - invisible characters will remain invisible, but everyone will know where they started in the arena.







> Magic item questions you have to consider are: Can the character have used something like Incense of Meditation the night before? Can a spell or scroll with a permanent effect already be in place? Adjust the cost of the spell storing Ioun Stone? Charge spellcasting costs for spells stored in items the character cannot cast? Allow Candle of Invocation? Allow single arrows to be enchanted? Partially charged items?



No partial charges. No single arrows. That's definite.

I think, unless someone brings up a real good reason, that there will be NO permanent effects in place unless you can get them off in the prep round.

Candle of Invocation can be used in the prep round or fight (+2 morale bonus), but not during spell prep time. Also, see below on 8th and 9th level spells.

Incense of Meditation: See Candle of Invocation.

8th & 9th level spells: My gut instinct is to completely ban any item that allows use of 8th or 9th level spells. Spell casters who can cast them can cast them just fine, but still may not bring in any items that allow it. Thus, Candle of Invocation (gate) would not be possible unless I nerfed it to not allow 9th level spells.

Ioun Stone: Any reason this should be upped in cost? That's 12,000 GP that an opponent can destroy in a heartbeat...


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## seasong (Mar 15, 2003)

*The House Rules & Rules Clarifications List*

*Spells*

Certain spells have house rules or clarifications in Hethas' domain, as she does not consider them "sporting".

Harm: Fort Save for 6d6 +1/caster level hp. This can not reduce target below 1 hp.

Haste: Only one spell may be cast per round unless the Quicken feat is used. The partial action given by haste does not allow a caster to get around this limitation, but does allow a caster to take a full round non-spell casting action (such as running) AND cast a spell (or two spells if used with Quicken). Haste is otherwise unmodified.

Summon Spells: Spell casters will now build their own summon spells. Each individual spell summons one kind of creature of CR equal to the spell's level. Thus, a 4th level summoning could summon an owlbear, but could not summon "any CR 4 creature". The duration remains 1 round/level. Creatures must fit the caster type (no druids summoning fiendish half-dragon orcs). I will be using Savage Species to adjudicate whether or not a creature is of appropriate CR, so be careful with them templates .

Planar/Ethereal/Astral Spells: Do not work (including armor of etherealness, etc.). The exceptions are instant duration spells (such as teleport or dimension door) and spells which create a pocket space rather than shifting the subject to a whole other plane (such as rope trick or maze).

Polymorph Any/Other/Self: Restricted by CR to (caster level/2)+1, rounded down. Thus, a 10th level caster could polymorph into a CR 6 creature. No templates are allowed, only _basic creatures_.

*House Rules*

Communication: Each round, you may speak up to 25 words as a free action, or up to 50 words as a standard action (a full round action = 100 words!). You may pitch your voice low (Listen check for others to hear at DC = distance from you in feet). If you don't, everyone can hear you. I ask that everyone follow this dictate, even though it is difficult to enforce!

Bardic Knowledge & Knowledge (Heroes & Villains): A DC 25 check will give you one item of information about one character. You may make one check per round as a move equivalent action (you are thinking, but not so deeply that you can't act at all). The kinds of information you will get will vary, but might be an inobvious race or class, a major attack type, an infamously powerful magic item, or a range into which the character's highest level spells fall into (0-2, 3-5, 6-8).

Sunder/Breaking Weapons: Bows (and other missile weapons) are treated as weapons for purposes of sundering or breaking them. HOWEVER, instead of being "unbreakable" by lesser weapons, magic weapons multiply their Hardness by (1 + difference in enhancement bonuses). Thus, if a character attempts to break a +2 longsword, using a +1 longsword, the +2 longsword will be treated as having Hardness 20 instead of Hardness 10 (hit points are still 5). Breaking a magic weapon with a greater magic weapon does not divide Hardness.

Damage Reduction: Magical DR (10/+3 and the like) is divided by 2 (round DOWN) and changed to X/-. For example, a night hag (who has DR 20/+3) changes to DR 10/-. This stacks with barbarian DR, and overlaps with other magical DRs (so a fiendish nighthag still only has DR 10/-). If a creature is listed as having a vulnerability to a non-plus material (such as silver), that material still gets through their DR. Antimagic gets rid of magical DR except in special cases (iron golems, for example, get theirs from their composition). If anyone has magical DR, I will post whether or not it functions (for their race/etc.) in antimagic zones.

Quaal's Feather Token (Anchor): This causes a chain to grow from where the token originated (plus some extra chain to tie off) straight down until it hits earth, where it sinks into the earth and grips. If it hits something before the earth, it grows around the side of the something and continues down. Removing the anchor is a DC 40 STR check; the one who activated the token may deactivate it at will.

Quaal's Feather Token (Tree): The tree springs forth from the earth, and must have a place to root. A living creature of at least Large size is considered a sufficient place to root. Living creatures get a Fortitude save (DC 15) to resist being rooted in; on a success, the feather token starts to transform but loses its magic; on a failure, the token roots in the creature, doing 3d6 damage, or 10d6 damage if internal (in a creature's mouth, for example).

Falling Objects: If the object falls more than 30 feet, target gets a Spot check (DC based on size of object, typically DC 10 for human sized, plus the size modifier for AC). If not spotted, the object is treated as a flanking attack. If spotted, the subject gets a Reflex save (DC 15) to negate damage. Some objects are large enough (more than 5 feet to a side) to be considered an area attack; increase the Reflex save DC to 20. "Area attack" objects divide their weight by the number of squares they cover, for how much weight they hit each square with.

Wands/Rings/Potions/Command Words: All potion names and command words are written on the item. The languages they may be written in are Language A, B, C and D. All players understand Language A. You must be able to read and write the language your command words are written in.

*Clarifications & General Rulings*

Dust of Disappearance: Per its description, _dust of disappearance_ defeats _see invisible_, _invisibility purge_, or _true seeing_. However, _dust of appearance_ and _glitterdust_ defeat it (these do not detect the subject - they coat the subject), as does anything which adheres to the subject on top of the dust, such as water or mud. _Dust of disappearance_ is also defeated by swimming in water, passing through a wind wall and similar things. Ask me if you have a specific question about it.

STR Lift/Carry Rules: The PHB is pretty clear on this, but some people seem to feel that it is unclear, so here is my personal clarification. The maximum amount you can carry is twice your Heavy Encumbrance. When you are above your Heavy Encumbrance, the best you can do is stagger a few feet per round (move 5, no double moves, hustling or running). If you are above the maximum amount you can carry, you have two choices: drop it, or fall down. Your legs buckle under the weight, your back strains, your feet hurt, you fall down. While on the ground, you can shove yourself around if the weight is low enough for you to drag/push. Otherwise, you can not move at all.

Quick Draw: This feat allows you to sheathe ONCE and draw ONCE per round, per hand. Thus, a 6-armed monster with _quick draw_ could sheathe six swords and draw six daggers, but could not sheathe the same sword six times with the same hand in one round.

Item Creation Feats/Craft Skills/etc: Standard experience and gold cost for such items. You may NOT produce a less than fully charged item, or fewer than 50 missiles.


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## seasong (Mar 15, 2003)

I'm out for a few hours now, but I'll be back later this evening to look over comments, answer questions, etc.


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## Number47 (Mar 15, 2003)

Are you limiting number of forms to a preselected amount for polymorph, wildshape, shifter?

Can you give an explanation as to how you prefer to handle targeting? Do you target a square, or do you target an intersection of lines?


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 15, 2003)

Excellent, if you don't mind having the same crowd in all of them, I'm more then happy to play.  I'll have my character when we get a few more particulars on the Arena and such.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 15, 2003)

Sounds really cool. I am very interested! When you decide on the character generation rules, will you accept a character in PCGen format? Since Ive not participated in a game of this nature before, I may be a bit of a neophyte, but I wouldnt mind muddling through this if you dont mind the headache of being the arbiter of MY misdeeds.


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## JDragon (Mar 15, 2003)

Looks fairly simple to me.

? - Will teams be allowed?  

Should be interesting to see how an adjusted Haste(3.5?) works.

JDragon

BTW - if allowed; anyone looking to do the team thing for this one?


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

i don't think i feel like teaming this time. even though it really really enhances a team's play ability, i just can't deal with another round of that much behind-the-scenes drama.

at least this time i'm going to create an actually _effective_ character.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

I've been kinda known for making bard-type characters, but I think I may go outside that for this one. I think I may have finally proved my point on the effectiveness of bards, thus be able to move on. There are a lot of possibilities open at 15th level, too.

Although, it would be tempting to put a clone of Dabbil the Fourth in. He's all core-rules, so there's nothing to be denied.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Quick answers...

*Number47*

Polymorph/wildshape/etc.: My kneejerk instinct is to require the players to pick a set of precalculated forms, so that I don't have to go through a subset of character creation every time they go at it. However, I'm not sure how many would be a good range, yet. I'm thinking about 5, maybe? Dunno.

Targetting: For area effects and attacking invisible? I'll use square-targetting rather than crosshair-targetting. Excellent question!

Dabbil the Fourth: Heh. The core rules allow a lot more than most people think . I'd agree that you don't need to prove anything with bards (at least not to me - I'm pretty impressed with them), but if you'd like to play one, feel free.

*DM with a vengence*

I don't mind "the same crowd". I'd like to ensure that there are a few new bloods, but I think (cool hand luke, Tisvon) that has been covered by now.

*Breakdaddy*

I'm not familiar with PCGen, unfortunately. If I can read it without having the program installed, I can probably accept it.

Hm. That brings up standards and formats. At the moment, I don't know of a good standard format. Anyone have any suggestions?

*JDragon*

No teams. I don't care if people ally in-game, although I frown on out-of-game secret discussion - see the 25/50 word limit per round - even though I know I can't stop it if it occurs.

But this will end with one champion standing, not three. More on this in a coming post.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Okay, so I'm going to make several posts discussing different aspects of my plans for this potential Game of Death. Please feel free to comment on any of it - most of this is a bit loose, still.

We'll start with the basic arena setup.

*Game of Death: Hethas' Gambit*

_Note: the following is one gawd's opinion. The author merely seeks to faithfully record it, but states that he, himself, rather enjoyed Zeus' game of death, and hopes to see more of that sort._

"Bah! What WAS that? I was told we were going to see mortal-on-mortal action, not Zeus throwing miracles every round!"

"What's wrong with Zeus throwing miracles? He's pretty good at them."

"I see miracles every day. And it's not like it's a challenge for him - he can do that stuff in his sleep! I wanted to see heroism, betrayal, EFFORT. I wanted to see final stands against overwhelming odds, I wanted to see smackdowns, I wanted to see BLOOD."

"Well, you're a Gawd yourself. Why don't YOU run one?"

"Maybe I will. In fact... I will!"

Hethas is a Gawddess of earth and death in a distant D&D world, who wants to bring the death back into "game of death". Her arena and venue is not huge, but Her reputation for viciousness has drawn numerous Gawds in to watch.

*The Arena*

The arena, Hethas' Gambit, is a stadium-style rounded rectangle deep within the earth. It is 500 feet long, 300 feet wide, and has a flat, horizontal ceiling 300 feet up. The walls are thick adamantine enchanted to be permanently invisible, and the collosseum seating is behind that.

Each square on the map will be 5' to a side. Moving one square diagonally in a round is treated as a 5' step; moving two squares or more diagonally is treated as 15' per 2 squares. Locations are defined as X, Y (height if applicable). X is horizontal; the X numbers run along the top of the map. Y is vertical; the Y numbers run along the left side of the map. Height is used for flying characters, characters on raised or lowered sections of the arena, and characters who are underwater. When specifying a movement, you should give BOTH a distance/direction AND the final coordinate you expect to end up at.

The arena itself is changeable by Hethas' will, and She has a set series of "interesting" changes intended. Every 5-10 rounds, the environment will change. Expect to fight in driving rain, in confined spaces, on slick ice and by dangerous dropoffs. Just not all at once. All such environmental changes, while "exotic" in a sense, will not be strange or magical... There will be no natural zones of antimagic, high gravity, "positive energy" or the like - all terrains will be earth-like and you will be able to prepare for them. In addition, there will usually be an extra round or two during which the change itself takes place, so you will have _some_ warning of what sort of environment is coming.

At the start of the tournament, there will be a few low mounds, a deep stream (or shallow river), and a pond. Visibility will be better than 500 feet, and artificial sunlight (as the _daylight_ spell) will be pumping from the ceiling. Do not expect any of these facts or descriptions to remain the same... and indeed, they may begin changing on the very first round.

It is recommended that you:
1. Have far and close attacks available to you. The terrain will sometimes prevent far attacks, and a close-in fighter who is on top of you will quickly reduce your options. The arena itself is pretty big, and if you can't get across the arena quickly enough, you'll want far attacks to hit people who are avoiding you.

2. Be prepared for hot and cold conditions. Be prepared to climb and swim, and be prepared for periods when flying is not an option.

3. The arena is smaller than most long range spells. Be prepared to take heat from spell casters on the other side of the arena.

4. Be capable of fighting or escaping in an antimagic field. The arena will not produce any, but I can practically guarantee some of the other players will!

*Game Beginning*

Characters have ONE PREP ROUND before being teleported into the arena to prep any spells. Unless you can prep them in that single prep round, you will have no buff spells, no magical effects (such as from _candles of invocation_ or _incense of meditation_), etc. Characters appear in the arena fully equipped. Hit points are at full, resources are full, etc.

Each player CHOOSES where on the map they will appear. They do this with no knowledge of where the others will choose to appear. You can not appear in the air - the location must be on the ground. If two players choose the same X,Y coordinate, each will be moved one square in a random direction (the original square they were both trying for will remain empty).

All characters appear in a puff of smoke. Invisible characters will remain invisible, but everyone will know where they started out due to the puff of smoke. Each character has a different color of smoke, and will have been seen prior to the tournament starting, so there will be no complete unknowns.

I will roll initiative when the characters appear in the arena. We will then use that initiative order from that point on (with changes per the rules for refocusing, etc.). Initiative results will be publicly displayed, as will changes in initiative.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*Building Gladiators*

*LIMIT 1:* Core Books + OGL Stuff. Non-core book OGL items are allowed on a case-by-case basis (possibly with edits), and the resulting information will be made public knowledge. The fact that YOU are using the OGL crunch will not be revealed - only that someone asked about it, and it was allowed. There will be no PrCs that no one knows about, no feats that no one knows about, etc.

*LIMIT 2:* No psionics. I am not familiar enough with them to run a fair game. This is not a balance issue.

*Ability Scores:* 36 point buy (high power) with these costs:
below 8 - gain 1 pt per -1 below 8
8 - 0 pts
9 - 1 pts
10 - 2 pts
11 - 3 pts
12 - 4 pts
13 - 6 pts
14 - 8 pts
15 - 10 pts
16 - 12 pts
17 - 15 pts
18 - 18 pts

The point system above is based on this thread. In short, it's WotC's system reverse engineered and smoothed out a bit. A value of 36 points roughly simulates the advantage of 2d6+6, which is about where I want it.

*Level:* 106,000 XP. Maximum HP for each level (average for cohorts). Multiclass XP penalties WILL be applied, so you need to specify in what order you took each class. If you have ONE PrC, it does not cause XP penalties; each one past the first DOES.

*Equipment:* 200,000 GP. No more than 100,000 GP on a single item. _No items that allow you to cast 8th or 9th level spells (scrolls, staves, etc.)._ Note that casters who can cast 8th level spells must also abide by this rule, but may cast the spell themselves in the arena.

*Wizard Spells Known:* any cantrips, 8 non-cantrip spells, +3 non-cantrip spells per caster level after 1st. You still need to list cantrips.

*Cohorts/Companions:* CHA is the only modifier to your leadership score. No followers are allowed in the arena, but your cohort may accompany you. Build your cohort normally (NPC wealth table, average HP, 28 point buy for attributes, otherwise the same options as the gladiator). You will control your character's cohort.

Cohort Leaders? NO. Your cohort may have animal companions, but may not take the leadership feat.

Doubled Leadership? You may take the Leadership feat more than once to get more than one Cohort. Each Cohort after the first is a flat -2 levels, regardless of CHA and other factors.

Animal Companions/Familiars? All may accompany you normally. You gain no benefits from the companion if they do not accompany you (no CON+2 from the toad in the stands, for example - the toad must be on your person).

*Monster PCs:* Allowed on a case-by-case basis. ECL determined by me (with the helpful aid of Savage Species and the DMG). Any ECL monster or rulings I make will be public knowledge so that anyone who wants to take that package can, and so anyone who sees the creature in game can guess at its capabilities with the same efficiency as for core class/race combinations. I will allow use of templates, Awakened animals, undead, etc.

*Spell Nerfs*

Harm: Fort Save for 6d6 +1/caster level hp. This can not reduce target below 1 hp.

Haste: Only one spell may be cast per round unless the _quicken_ feat is used. The partial action given by _haste_ does not allow a caster to get around this limitation, but does allow a caster to take a full round non-spell casting action (such as running) AND cast a spell (or two spells if used with _quicken_). _Haste_ is otherwise unmodified. (Note: this is based partly on the 3.5 nerf).

Summon Spells: Spell casters will now build their own summon spells. Each individual spell summons one kind of creature of CR equal to the spell's level. Thus, a 4th level summoning could summon an owlbear, but could not summon "any CR 4 creature". The duration remains 1 round/level. Creatures must fit the caster type (no druids summoning fiendish half-dragon orcs).

Planar/Ethereal/Astral Spells and Magic Items: Do not work (including _armor of etherealness_ and similar such). The exceptions are instant duration spells (such as _teleport_ or _dimension door_) and spells which create a pocket space rather than shifting the subject to a whole other plane (such as _rope trick_ or _maze_).

Polymorph Any/Other/Self: Restricted by CR to (caster level/2)+1, rounded down. Thus, a 10th level caster could _polymorph_ into a CR 6 creature. No templates are allowed. _Wildshape_ and similar abilities will be limited to CR in the same manner. Anyone with these abilities must pre-define (and calculate the stats for) up to 5 shapes they can take - these are the only shapes they may transform into in this arena.

*Other Considerations*

Item Creation Feats/Craft Skills/etc: Standard experience and gold cost for such items. You may NOT produce a less than fully charged item.

Wands/Rings/Potions/Command Words: All potion names and command words are written on the item. The languages they may be written in are Language A, B, C and D. All players understand Language A. You must be able to read and write the language your command words are written in.

Bardic Knowledge & Knowledge (Heroes & Villains): A DC 25 check will give you one item of information about one character. You may make one check per round as a move equivalent action (you are thinking, but not so deeply that you can't act at all). The kinds of information you will get will vary, but might be an inobvious race or class, a major attack type, an infamously powerful magic item, or a range into which the character's highest level spells fall into (0-2, 3-5, 6-8).

Sunder/Breaking Weapons: Bows (and other missile weapons) are treated as weapons for purposes of sundering or breaking them. HOWEVER, instead of being "unbreakable" by lesser weapons, magic weapons multiply their Hardness by (1 + difference in enhancement bonuses). Thus, if a character attempts to break a +2 longsword, using a +1 longsword, the +2 longsword will be treated as having Hardness 20 instead of Hardness 10 (hit points are still 5). Breaking a magic weapon with a greater magic weapon does not divide Hardness.

Damage Reduction: Magical DR (10/+3 and the like) is divided by 2 (round DOWN) and changed to X/-. For example, a night hag (who has DR 20/+3) changes to DR 10/-. This stacks with barbarian DR, and overlaps with other magical DRs (so a fiendish nighthag still only has DR 10/-). If a creature is listed as having a vulnerability to a non-plus material (such as silver), that material still gets through their DR. Antimagic gets rid of magical DR except in special cases (iron golems, for example, get theirs from their composition). If anyone has magical DR, I will post whether or not it functions (for their race/etc.) in antimagic zones.

Dust of Disappearance: Per its description, _dust of disappearance_ defeats _see invisible_, _invisibility purge_, or _true seeing_. However, _dust of appearance_ and _glitterdust_ defeat it (these do not detect the subject - they coat the subject), as does anything which adheres to the subject on top of the dust, such as water or mud. _Dust of disappearance_ is also defeated by swimming in water, passing through a _wind wall_ and similar things. Ask me if you have a specific question about it.

Quick Draw: This feat allows you to sheathe ONCE and draw ONCE per round, per hand. Thus, a 6-armed monster with _quick draw_ could sheathe six swords and draw six daggers, but could not sheathe the same sword six times with the same hand in one round.

Quaal's Feather Token (Anchor): This causes a chain to grow from where the token originated (plus some extra chain to tie off) straight down until it hits earth, where it sinks into the earth and grips. If it hits something before the earth, it grows around the side of the something and continues down. Removing the anchor is a DC 40 STR check; the one who activated the token may deactivate it at will.

Quaal's Feather Token (Tree): The tree springs forth from the earth, and must have a place to root. A living creature of at least Large size is considered a sufficient place to root. Living creatures get a Fortitude save (DC 15) to resist being rooted in; on a success, the feather token starts to transform but loses its magic; on a failure, the token roots in the creature, doing 3d6 damage, or 10d6 damage if internal (in a creature's mouth, for example).


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*Points*

Note: There are no teams. Only one gladiator may be left standing at the end, and points are by individual. You may ally with others in the game, but remember that only one person may survive at the end.

Each kill: 3 pts. (kill thief: 1 pt, or 0.5 pts for a _coup de grace_)
A _coup de grace_ kill: 2 pts (replaces kill pts, above).
Suicide: -2 pts.
Each round you survive against 2:1 odds: +1 pt.
Each round you survive against 3:1 or 4:1 odds: +2 pts.
Each round you survive against 5:1 or greater odds: +3 pts.
Performance: +1 pts, add +1 per 10 you exceed DC 20 by.

Each round spent neither attacking nor performing: -1 pt.
Changing targets before current opponent is dead: -1 pt.
(does not count if fighting multiple opponents)

Last Gladiator Standing: 10 pts, option for champion fight.
Winning Champion Fight: 10 pts.
Losing Champion Fight: -5 pts.

Kill thief: If a character has been reduced to 10% of their hit points without any help from you, and you swoop in and kill them, that's a kill thief. You still get points, but not nearly as many.

Coup de Grace kill: Target is helpless (paralyzed, held, unconscious, etc.) _and you use the coup de grace rules_. You may choose to do normal hit point damage instead, in which case you get full points.

Performance: A performance must be USELESS to count for points. No buffing, no drinking potions, etc. You can boast of your prowess, dance on someone's corpse, pose for the audience while death incarnate charges towards you, etc. If there are NO THREATS TO YOU while you are performing, you may only perform for one round; thereafter the audience loses interest, and you are considered to be "not attacking". _Note: Charging at a target for one round, performing for one round, charging for one round, performing again, etc. will not work. The audience is not THAT stupid._

Not Attacking: If there are no targets near you, and you spend the round on a double move towards a target, this is counted as an "attack", even if you do not reach the target by the end of the round. A round spent attacking, charging, double moving towards a target, or performing does not cause loss of points.

Champion Fight: This is a CR 14-17 monster (to be revealed when the arena opens) which the last gladiator standing may choose to fight. If so, the gladiator is given one round to buff/haste/heal/invis/etc. before the monster is unleashed into the arena.

Other possible modifiers: Showmanship may net you a +1 point bonus on a particular kill. This only works once per particular type of "showmanship", and must impress me personally. I made the gain low so that it would be difficult for this to skew the game results - just think of it as a minor award in addition to the game.


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## Starman (Mar 16, 2003)

I'd definitely be game for this. Now I need a character concept. Hmmm....

Starman


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*RUNNING THE GAME*

1. Create your characters (see above guidelines).
2. I will provide the arena map at that point.
2a. Choose where you wish to appear.
2b. Send me what you wish to do in the prep round.
3. The game will begin (see below).
4. I will post what happens in a round.
5. Everyone will e-mail me their turn (24 hour deadline).
6. I will request clarifications or alternate moves where needed.
7. I will update with what happens that round (1-3 days).
8. Start over at #5.

*OOC Discussion*

Please keep all OOC discussion public. I would prefer that there was no silent or secret planning. There's nothing I can do to stop you, but I can and will ask you to behave yourselves.

*Game Beginning*

Characters have ONE PREP ROUND before being teleported into the arena to prep any spells. Unless you can prep them in that single prep round, you will have no buff spells, no magical effects (such as from _candles of invocation_ or _incense of meditation_), etc. Characters appear in the arena fully equipped. Hit points are at full, resources are full, etc.

Each player CHOOSES where on the map they will appear. They do this with no knowledge of where the others will choose to appear. You can not appear in the air - the location must be on the ground. If two players choose the same X,Y coordinate, each will be moved one square in a random direction (the original square they were both trying for will remain empty).

All characters appear in a puff of smoke. Invisible characters will remain invisible, but everyone will know where they started out due to the puff of smoke. Each character has a different color of smoke, and will have been seen prior to the tournament starting, so there will be no complete unknowns.

I will roll initiative when the characters appear in the arena. We will then use that initiative order from that point on (with changes per the rules for refocusing, etc.). Initiative results will be publicly displayed, as will changes in initiative.

*Basics*

Deadline for each round for all characters is 24 hours after I make my post. All actions will be processed at the same time. I expect to spend 1.5 hours on this (10-12 minutes per character), so expect each round to take 1-3 days, depending on my work schedule and personal life. If I can get a groove going (M-W-Sat, for example), I will, but there are no guarantees (note: this is 3 rounds a week, so should be plenty fast!).

If a player misses a round, I will act for their character, based on a policy of cowardice. This will hopefully keep you alive for that round, but will also cost you points!

Is it unfair for me to give you a 24-hour time deadline to decide what you want your character's one round action is, and then take up to 3 days to calculate the results of all actions for 8 people? I certainly hope not.

Each square on the map will be 5' to a side. Moving one square diagonally in a round is treated as a 5' step; moving two squares or more diagonally is treated as 15' per 2 squares. Locations are defined as X, Y (height if applicable). X is horizontal; the X numbers run along the top of the map. Y is vertical; the Y numbers run along the left side of the map. Height is used for flying characters, characters on raised or lowered sections of the arena, and characters who are underwater. When specifying a movement, you should give BOTH a distance/direction AND the final coordinate you expect to end up at.

All natural d20 rolls will be posted. Saves and whatnot will be rolled whether or not they are needed by the particular character. The amount of damage a character suffers (after DR, resistances, etc.) will be posted.

If you send an action which is not physically possible (using a feat on a target that is no longer there, for example), I will send you a reply explaining the issue and asking for clarification and/or a different action. This will occasionally slow the game down, and I ask for patience - I would rather get it right than get it fast in most cases.

*Controversial Issues*

These are topics which I feel need to be aired prior to the game, so everyone starts on the same foot. They are primarily based on various arguments that broke out during clockworkjoe's game, that I feel were unnecessary.

*Nerfing:* I've pointed out every nerf I could think of that is needed in the House Rules & Clarifications section. I will try to catch any additional ones during the period of time that everyone is creating their characters. I will do my absolute best to make sure that anything that needs nerfing, gets it before the game starts, so you know the rules going in.

It is possible that I might nerf something mid-game. If something truly qualifies for the Smackdown title (near-guaranteed 200 hps in one round), I will allow it ONCE and then nerf it. I don't mind if you find a tweaked out rule that I didn't consider, but I don't want the entire Game of Death to devolve into a series of boring smackdowns. In return, you will get a bonus +1 point for the smackdown.

So... go ahead and try to get a smackdown in, but _have a backup ready when I take it away_.

*Complaining:* You can e-mail me, or post in the public forum (I prefer public, incidentally). In both cases, it will follow this procedure:

1. You present your complaint.
2. We discuss it.
3. I will listen to your arguments until I feel you've made your best case, or until the deadline looms.
4. I will make a decision, and post the decision publicly.
5. ARGUMENT STOPS.

Also, anyone who complains a LOT will be asked to leave the game. My philosophy is simple: someone who is constantly complaining is NOT ENJOYING THE GAME, and we both need to just move on. If you feel this is oppression, feel free to oppress me in return by kicking _me_ out (by quitting) or not joining my fascist regime in the first place.

Anyone who refuses to shut up after the Referee has made the final judgement will also be asked to leave the game. You either trust me as referee, or you do not trust me as referee - and I will not adjudicate for someone who does not trust me. Period.

For the rules lawyers, what is a LOT of complaints? Basically, if you complain more often than not, that is excessive. If you complain 3 out of every 5 rounds, that is excessive. If the main thing I remember when looking back over your posts is complaints, that is excessive. If you complain every time your character suffers, that is excessive. If you complain for other people, that is excessive.

So if some of your complaints are "little gripes", keep them to yourself - save your energy for the real complaints, the ones you are willing to risk being asked to leave for.

Also, I will ask everyone to PLEASE REFRAIN from naming names on this - it applies to ALL of you equally, and I will take personal attacks very poorly. This is just an attempt to lay out the ground rules ahead of time, and to establish that yes, I will lay the smack upon those who don't follow the rules (i.e. - that I am a Fascist GM ).


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 16, 2003)

Just want to ask a few questions about this:

1. Is Quest/Gaeas any different from normal?

2. How do you define surviving against the odds? Since each man is against all others, wouldn't that mean that everyone is fighting the same odds?

3. Isn't fighting with two shields pretty weird?


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## cool hand luke (Mar 16, 2003)

*private questions*

can we send you some questions in private about characters?  

Are you going to review all the character sheets for accuracy?


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## JDragon (Mar 16, 2003)

Seasong,

Thank you very much for putting everything that you can think of out for everyone to see at the begging, it should make life good for all of us.  

Do you have any idea what the dead line is going to be on characters yet?

Also, regarding the Kill Thief rule, would my kill on Landerin in CWJ's game have been considered a kill thief in your game? (I'm playing Harsel in that one)


JDragon


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> 1. Is Quest/Gaeas any different from normal?



"While a geas cannot compel a creature to kill itself or perform acts that would result in certain death, it can cause almost any other course of activity."

"Note that a clever recipient can subvert some instructions."

Note also, that, since only one person is allowed to remain alive at the end of the combat, telling a person to "not attack me" is _fundamentally_ an act that would result in certain death.

Unless you can point out some particular abuse that I'm unaware of, I see nothing wrong with the spell, and do not have any house rules regarding it.







> 2. How do you define surviving against the odds? Since each man is against all others, wouldn't that mean that everyone is fighting the same odds?



Hm, I could write that better . Surviving 2:1 odds means "two people are directly attacking you that round". If you survive that round, you get a point. Note that people with cohorts may inadvertently give other people more points this way .







> 3. Isn't fighting with two shields pretty weird?



So are half-dragon halflings slinging meteor storms. And honestly, the idea of (for example) using a pair of small round shields as a kind of brass knuckles with protective qualities is neither far fetched nor physically that difficult.

I would require _some_ consistency and physical plausibility (so no dual tower shields, probably), but no more than I would from a half-dragon, meteor-storm-flinging halfling. As in all things, it depends on the campaign, and the GM.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: private questions*

*cool hand luke*

"seasong at texas dot net": Ask me anything you want. If I feel it warrants commentary publicly (i.e., it is a "will you include this?" question), I will strip your name and references to you from it first.

I am going to review character sheets with pen and paper, microscope, fine toothed comb, and anal-retentive streak a mile long and wide. I may still miss something, but it won't be deliberate.

Since you asked, I am going to go over yours particularly thoroughly .

*JDragon*

Deadline isn't set, because right now I'm still soliciting comments on the character creation process. When I am confident that I've got a complete set of rules, usable by everyone, I'll set a deadline. With that said, you can start sending me ideas whenever you want, and that may even help me revise the listed rules...

Kill Thief: Depends on whether Landerin was at 10% of his total hit points or not. I don't know what the REAL situation was, because clockworkjoe hasn't revealed such, yet .


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Additional note on the kill thief rule: If two people are attacking someone at the same time, collectively reduce the person to 10% or less of their hit points, and then one of them kills that person, that is not a kill thief.

It's a reason to beat each other down instead of teaming up.



Seriously, the kill thief rule only applies when someone comes in at the last second, after having contributed nothing to the fight, and takes out the losing party. The crowd will boo, Hethas will frown, and fewer points will be awarded.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

If I don't have Savage Species, where can I go to get CRs? It seems important in quite a few places here.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Getting CRs:

1. For polymorph, wildshape, etc. You can only use basic creatures (no templates or other whackiness), and for those purposes the CRs in the Monster Manual I are just fine!

2. For summoning spells, if you summon a basic creature, once again, Monster Manual I is just fine! If you want a templated creature, the MM I modifications to CR are a good guesstimate, and you can send the request to me for what it would actually be.

3. For Monster Characters, I am the one and only and true source of ECLs. Ask and you shall receive, although it may take me half an hour to work it out. Do not send unto me a hundred creatures to be ECL'd, for I am vicious when weary unto death.

That should cover the various possibilities. You don't need Savage Species - I'm just letting people know that I am using it as a tool for calculating certain things. Ultimately, however, the only authoritative source on unusual CRs and ECLs is me.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 16, 2003)

Holy kee-ripes!

You look like you have done your homework VERY well indeed, seasong!

I think you have addressed a lot of the problematic areas learned from previous Games of Death.
While it seems like there would be an infinite # of problematic rules and actions combinations that seem like they require House Rules, I applaud your efforts at codifying as many as possible beforehand, so as to (hopefully) avoid houserules 'after the fact'.

I have to believe that there are only SO many difficult-to-interpret rules areas that would reasonably come up in a GoD. But it sounds like you are knowledegable in the rules, and have a good approach going.

A point you may want to clarify:
Are you going to be including the spells and effects that are running in the Character's Status page?
Are you going to be allowing the characters to meta-game? (i.e. be able to use player information in their actions - stuff they could not have seen personally?)


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Small, but important, question. Will you determine initiative _after_ the prep round is over? I would very much like to know before I finish my character concept.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Quick note: I'm replying to e-mails and posts right now, so I may respond slowly, but I AM still awake and responding to everything. I'm probably good for another few hours .

*reapersaurus*

Character status page: Undecided as of yet. I think, if it works out okay, that I will be keeping a character status page for myself only. However, that may be a real pain in the ***, so I may have to drop that fantasy .

Metagaming: I would prefer that people did NOT metagame. A certain amount is unavoidable, however, and some things will be justifiable for experienced adventurers and combatants. In general, I put this under the private e-mail and teaming - I'd prefer not, but I can't really enforce it, so I'm asking people to be honest. I'm also asking that no one scream about other people maybe not being honest - if anyone's going to scream about that, it will be ME .

*Number47*

No prob - I just re-read, and it's not perfectly clear. The prep round occurs before the intitiative roll. Yes, this means you can buff yourself for a high initiative, and I more than encourage that .


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 16, 2003)

If there's room, I'm in


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Sollir: I've put you on the list.

Note to all: I'm showing 12 people. I really think that's about all I can handle quickly (i.e., in 1-3 days), so I'm going to cut it off there. If you want to call in as an alternate (in case someone drops), feel free, but there's no guarantees there.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 16, 2003)

oh - one point about Dust of Disappearance.

This magic item is in the category of 'if you include it, it requires everyone to also include the counter.'

Except, isn't Dust of Appearance kind of hard to apply to someone who's invisible?
And Glitterdust similarly requires guesses about the 10-foot location of the DustofDis'd player.

Wouldn't it be easier (and make for better play) if you just banned it?

Just my 2 pennies.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Okay, I'm a bastard DM.

Read the list of things that counter _dust of disappearance_. Now read the section on the arena changes. You know, where it talks about "driving rain"?

Yeah. That's the stuff.

However, if people are vehement enough during this discussion period, I may decide to nerf it a bit (allow _true seeing_ to defeat it, for example). So folks, let me know - I'm all ears for your opinions.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Jeremy! I am getting bounce messages from your e-mail address. Please let me know if you are getting my e-mails, or if there is an alternate e-mail to send to if not.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

I'll be editing this as my scratch sheet. Please feel free to comment on rulings I make here - nothing is completely finalized yet .

*General Rulings & Allowances*

To recap: No non-OGL unless it is in the corebooks. I'm getting quite a few requests for Closed stuff (particularly Forgotten Realms stuff), and having to say no. This is a problem I've had with Forgotten Realms since day one - none of it is Open, and that creates problems like this one. Please stick to core and OGL stuff!

Other rulings, in no particular order...

*Wall of Force:* Nerfed a bit. The hemisphere version allows a save, exactly like _wall of ice_.

*Savage Species:* I am using this as a tool to calculate CRs and ECLs. HOWEVER, nothing in here is OGL, so... No. None of the new weapons, none of the new spells, etc. When it gets put in the SRD by WotC, yes, but for now, no.

*Half Ogres:* With that said, I'm willing to write up my own, open version of the half-ogre at ECL +2. Much the same, but with 2 HD and all of the usual effects (saves, BAB, etc.) that that normally entails. Looking over the Savage Species half-ogre, it's too strong to be ECL +1, but at the weak end of ECL +2, so I'll beef it a bit and call it ECL +2.

*Contingency:* Nerfed. You can cast it during the prep round, but you do not start with it.

*Blindsight:* Do not expect this to be the end-all, be-all. Any blindsight will have a specific mechanism for working, and I will allow that mechanism to be countered by anyone clever enough.

*Headband of Intellect:* It is assumed that your character is a munchkin, and always wears the headband, and has NEVER EVER lost it . If you have a +2 INT headband, you will gain +1 skill point per level, starting at 5th level. If you have a +4 INT headband, you will gain +1 skill point per level at 5th, and that will change to +2 skill points per level at 9th. If you have a +6 INT headband, you will gain +1 skill point per level at 5th, and that will change to +2 skill points per level at 9th, and THAT will change to +3 skill points per level at 12th.

*Cross Class Learning feat*
(taken from Ultimate Feats by Mongoose Publishing, originally created by Bradley H Bennis Jr):
You can learn a cross-class skill as if it were a class skill.

Benefit: You may choose a cross-class skill in which you have a certain knack. You may treat this skill as if it were a class skill.

Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, choosing a new skill each time. You are still limited by level +3 for the maximum number of skill points you spend on this skill.

*Cohort Hit Points:* CLARIFICATION. Max at first, then average (5.5 for a fighter) per level thereafter. If you end up with something like 111.5, round up to 112. I don't think anyone will begrudge you that last half hit point .


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

I'm off to bed . G'night all!


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## reapersaurus (Mar 16, 2003)

pardon my ignorance, but could someone list exactly what is OGL, and therefore a valid source for this Game?

I'll start:
PHB
DMG
MM


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Must admit I don't like that nerfing of wall of force. There is precious little one can do against a character in an AMF as it is. We certainly can't Mordenkainen's Disjunction it, because the spell won't be allowed. I just don't know what to do here.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

I also prefer that True Sight defeats Dust of Disappearance. I don't like a board full of invisible people.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Intelligence boosting and leveling guideline?


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

_True Sight_ isn't  really supposed to defeat _Dust of Dissapearance_. if it becomes a problem, I bet he'll just make it rain constantly.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> pardon my ignorance, but could someone list exactly what is OGL, and therefore a valid source for this Game?



Everything in the System Reference Document. _Every third party d20 publisher out there_. Generally, you can look in the front or back of the book, and if it has the Open Gaming License in it, all of the pure crunch (rules) will be OGL.

No problem! I just kind of assumed that everyone would know what I was talking about, which was silly of me . Consider this a clarification before the game starts .

The main purpose behind the OGL restriction is so that I can (legally) repost it here, so that there are no options available to one person that are not available to another person, or hidden abilities that no one else can plan for because they don't have the books.

And yeah, I really wish WotC would *&^%ing release the FRCS and Savage Species stuff in the System Reference Document. There's some cool stuff in there that I can't use .


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

FRCS is out? ... now i need to think of a replacement for Cosmopolitan...

isn't there a feat like that in one of the other books? "make X a class skill"? "Experienced", or something?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*Wall of Force Considerations*

Well, honestly, by a _strict_ reading of the rules, you can't trap creatures with the hemisphere option at all.

The _wall of ice_ and _wall of stone_ both explicitly state that the spell can be used to trap creatures, and then gives rules for it. The _wall of force_ does not state that it can be used in this manner at all.

However, the AMF is a decent point. How does this compromise look to you?

"If the creature is within 5 feet of the edge of the _wall of force_ bubble, or has a movement action readied (that can get them to the edge), they may make a Reflex save to not be captured."

As always, commentary from everyone on this is welcome.

*Dust of Disappearance*

Anyone else feel that way?

Just for clarification: there will be driving rain or vicious winds in this game. Both shred _dust of disappearance_. I won't do it constantly, but anyone who relies on their dust to keep them safe will have a rude awakening.

There are also _very cheap_ countermeasures for the clever adventurer. In fact, the countermeasures are SOOOO easy, I considered nerfing them to give the guys with _dust of appearance_ a chance. But they do require some creativity. I expect to see at least 4 of y'all go with one of them.

*Intelligence Boosting & Levelling Guidelines*

Huh? What's the question? Or e-mail me if it reveals too much!


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

I'm talking about skill points here. If my 15th level character has an Int-boosting item, when do I add it to my skill points per level? I believe one of the DMs for a failed GoD had an interesting rule that was you got +2 to your Int for a booster at 6th, it was increased to +4 at 9th (if the item you bought was at least +4), and increased to +6 at 12th (if you got a +6 item)


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> FRCS is out? ... now i need to think of a replacement for Cosmopolitan...
> 
> isn't there a feat like that in one of the other books? "make X a class skill"? "Experienced", or something?



Cross Class Learning (taken from _Ultimate Feats_ by Mongoose Publishing, originally created by Bradley H Bennis Jr):
You can learn a cross-class skill as if it were a class skill.
*Benefit:* You may choose a cross-class skill in which you have a certain knack. You may treat this skill as if it were a class skill.
*Special:* This feat may be taken multiple times, choosing a new skill each time. You are still limited by level +3 for the maximum number of skill points you spend on this skill.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> I'm talking about skill points here. If my 15th level character has an Int-boosting item, when do I add it to my skill points per level? I believe one of the DMs for a failed GoD had an interesting rule that was you got +2 to your Int for a booster at 6th, it was increased to +4 at 9th (if the item you bought was at least +4), and increased to +6 at 12th (if you got a +6 item)



Hm... I like that rule. A strict approach (at the point that the _headband of intellect_ is half or less your total wealth) yields +2 at level 5, +4 at level 9, and +6 at level 12. Sound good?


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## Jeremy (Mar 16, 2003)

Magic of Faerun, Tome & Blood, Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, Oriental Adventurers, Masters of the Wild, etc...  All gone?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Basically, yeah.

On the other hand, if EVERYONE IN THE GAME has a particular book, I will consider pretending that it is OGL, and post the name of the crunch being used and a book reference. But I think that all of those books you just listed are not owned by everyone.

Again, I know it's hard, but it's an issue of fairness. I won't allow material or rules to be used that not everyone has access to. Put plainly, if you can't beat the others without a level playing field, you don't deserve the win.

And yeah, I know it nixes a lot of concepts. I'd have a dual-wielding Sharktooth Staff half-ogre in a heartbeat, for example, cuz it just SOUNDS cool. But not everyone even knows what all those words mean, and that's not a level playing field.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Well, if that's your rule for what non-OGL is allowed, than no non-OGL is allowed. I only own the core three. Thanks for the ruling on the Int-level. Sounds good.

EDIT: So, would that mean you gain the actual skill point _benefit_ at levels 6, then 10, then 13? Or is it assumed you got the item just before leveling to 5th?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

There we go then.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Please look at my last post. I added an edit.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Magic of Faerun, Tome & Blood, Song & Silence, Sword & Fist, Oriental Adventurers, Masters of the Wild, etc...  All gone?



Oh, and Jeremy: I just read your title. As the ultimate munchkin, I expect you to rally back with a real monster using only core rules, OGL, and a rusty spoon .


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> EDIT: So, would that mean you gain the actual skill point _benefit_ at levels 6, then 10, then 13? Or is it assumed you got the item just before leveling to 5th?



Finally, an easy question o): the rules for wealth are based on what you are assumed to have _by the time you reach that level_. That is, if you start at a particular level, you have that much wealth. That's a pretty strict interpretation of the DMG rules.

Therefore: You get the benefit at 5th, 9th, 12th.


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## Jeremy (Mar 16, 2003)

Heh, my title is more of an honorary thing due to maintaining and archiving the Sultans of Smack thread.    Alot of others do more submitting to it than I do.  

Ah well, back to the drawing board.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

wait, i thought Sword and Fist _was_ in the OGL?

well, bugger. no more Monkey Grip for me, i guess...


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Check the book to see if it has an Open Gaming License in it. If it's Open and we can republish info from it here, I'm all ears.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

When you say average hit points for cohorts, etc., do you mean literally that a fighter gets 5.5 hit points per level, or LGG where he gets 6 per level? Max at first?


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *wait, i thought Sword and Fist was in the OGL?
> 
> well, bugger. no more Monkey Grip for me, i guess... *




Monkey Grip is a silly concept for one, and gives very little benefit to waste a feat on. Skip it.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*Cohort Hit Points:* Max at first, then 5.5 per level thereafter. If you end up with something like 111.5, round up to 112. I don't think anyone will begrudge you that last half hit point .

*Monkey Grip:* Saepiroth, if you could e-mail me what Monkey Grip does, I suspect an equivalent or similar feat can be found in Mongoose's _Ultimate Feats_ (100% OGL ).

_Edit: spelling._


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

What about cohort, animal companion and familiar initiative?

I doubt that Saepiroth was really wanting Monkey Grip. It lets you use a two-handed weapon in one hand, but you take a -2 to hit with it. Using a one-handed weapon and Power Attacking for 2 points will yield a higher damage total overall. If you want to use a reach weapon and have a shield, then get an animated shield. If you want to use two reach weapons, then I don't really understand what you hope to achieve.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*Initiative for your li'l buddies:* Rolled separately. However, you control what their actions will be.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

This is really nitpicky, but youve been so wonderfully anal about the other points that this might be a salient point. We are very likely to see highly specialized characters made just for this combat (which is ok I suppose). What I would like to see, if possible, is a particularly vile form of metagaming squashed. What I am getting at is: If you have a character with say an 8 wis and/or int, and he (the player) is coming up with incredibly clever ways to use his magic items and other equipment, will you prevent said usage from occuring due to the PCs lack of intellect? I think this would go a long way towards forcing SOME ability score balance. 

Then again, maybe Im just too anal


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

you're right, damn. for some reaosn i thought it let you hold things one category larger, for some unknowable reason. Apperently I'm insane.

oh well. it looks like I'm building another Glaivemaster!





...but how _DID_ those guys get to wield Huge weapons in CWJ's game?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

As I mentioned elsewhere, there isn't a good way to enforce no metagaming. I will politely ask everyone to adhere to their character's knowledge and abilities, but I can not enforce that in an unbiased manner.

Metagaming may result in a private discussion with the player, but that will be discussion only. Truly gross and consistent metagaming may result in my asking them to leave the game, but it would have to be both gross and consistent.

As for clever use of magic items: Naw. He could have been told how to do it by a smart buddy. I may nerf it, depending on how abusive of the spirit of the item it is, but I prefer to reward cleverness.

The kind of metagaming I'm more annoyed with is things that the character has no way or right of knowing, like where an invisible person is.


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## Jeremy (Mar 16, 2003)

I know I'm going to regret this, but it's my nature.

Check out the netbook of feats.  The feat you want is called Gigantic Weapon.  I'll go grab the link.  It's OGL.

http://www.datadeco.com/nbofeats/nbofeats010.html#Gigantic Weapon


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Acceptable:

GIGANTIC WEAPON [General]
You are proficient at wielding extremely large weapons.
Prerequisite: Str 15+, Base attack bonus +3 or higher
Benefit: You can wield a weapon two sizes larger than you with two hands, suffering a -3 penalty on all attack rolls when doing so.
Normal: You normally can only wield a weapon one size large than you with two hands.
  GIGANTIC WEAPON Copyright 2001, Eric D. Harry
  Balance: 4.55 (Purp 4.50, Pow 4.50, Port 4.25, Comp 4.50, Rule 5.00)

Note: 2 sizes larger means Huge weapons for medium-sized creatures. I also changed the penalty to -3. A few quick averages on Excel showed that this is still advantageous, but not insanely so (higher average damage way too high).

Also, this will only be allowed for melee weapons.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *I know I'm going to regret this, but it's my nature.
> 
> Check out the netbook of feats.  The feat you want is called Gigantic Weapon.  I'll go grab the link.  It's OGL.
> 
> http://www.datadeco.com/nbofeats/nbofeats010.html#Gigantic Weapon *



 whoo! that clears up every problem i had. looks slick!


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

What does that feat do for reach? Does it give reach, farther reach, nothing for reach?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

For reach weapons, +5 feet per size increase. For non-reach weapons, no effect. That's per Savage Species, and it looks like a good rule.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

*My half-ogre race:*
STR +6
CON +2
INT -2
CHA -2

2d8 HD
natural AC +4
Large (-1 AC, -1 to hit, reach 10 ft, move 30 ft)
Darkvision 30 ft
One racial feat
Fort +3, Ref/Will +1
BAB +2
5 racial skill points (climb, listen, spot)

ECL +2

*Human Vampire Template*
ECL +7, or ECL +6 for a pure sorcerer/wizard.

Here's the reasoning:
Vampire special abilities worthy of ECL consideration:
- Natural AC +6 (stacks)
- Slam attack (does energy drain, 2 levels)
- Domination (standard action, unlimited use, 30 ft range)
- Blood Drain (grapple attack, 1d4 permanent CON damage per round)
- Children of the Night (not applicable)
- Damage Reduction 7/-
- Turn Resistance +4 (plus character levels!)
- Cold/Electrical Resistnce 20
- Gaseous Form (standard action, unlimited use, move 20 ft)
- Spider Climb (at will)
- Alternate Form (standard action, CR 3 max, unlimited use)
- Fast Healing: 5 hp per round, applies while gaseous
- Ability Scores: STR +6, DEX +4, INT +2, WIS +2, CHA +4
- NO CON SCORE
- 5 feats (compare to 5th level human: 3 feats)

Vampire weaknesses:
- Can not approach garlic, mirrors and strongly presented holy symbols
- (Regardless of turn resistance!)
- Can not willingly cross running water
- Sunlight: not applicable anymore
- Stake: incapacitates the vampire, vampire may then be killed by decapitation

As a fighter, a vampire 5/fighter 10 will have 100 hp, but also DR 7 (worth an expected 35 hp in this arena), fast healing 5 (worth an expected 50 hp in this arena), and the ability to avoid most attacks by turning gaseous or very small. He will have a minimum +3 to hit and to damage (total to hit +13, but less one attack on a full round attack), the same number of feats, improved saves (+2 from 'free' DEX, +1 from 'free' WIS, no Fort saves required!), and a host of special abilities. Staking is going to be damned hard, but the running water and holy symbols are going to be problematic. There IS no easy way to prevent you from fleeing from an attack to nurse your wounds and come back just as strong.

At ECL +5, I'd play the vampire rather than the fighter. On the other hand, at ECL +7, the hit points nudge off a bit, the feats drop by 1, and the saves are inferior. It's somewhere between ECL +6 and ECL +7, and that blood drain is fricking NASTY, so I'll make it ECL +7.

For a sorcerer, on the other hand, a well designed sorcerer can do better than the vampire's dominate effect, and really loses out a lot on hit points for any level. The feats also hurt a lot; if you play a sorcerer, ECL +6.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 16, 2003)

Holy Frijole!
Seasong, it's interesting that the reason why you want to restrict the books to core+OGL is to allow everyone equal access, right?
But how exactly are you supposed to find the OGL content of those d20 publishers _without buying their book?_

I know of very few people who have many of those d20 books.
I guess they could be asked for repeatedly, and hopefully people will copy-paste them, but that seems awfully hard for everyone involved.

Ironically, most people DO have access to the splatbooks in my experience (at least the people who are serious about playing in these Games).

For myself, I have access to a lot of books, and opening up all the cheese that I THINK is OGL is going to generate incredibly broken characters, unless you nerf over half of the ones that are brought up (I'd guesstimate).


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## Saepiroth (Mar 16, 2003)

reaper; with the Netbook, the only things getting cut out are splatty items and PrC's. besides, if there's some specific thing you just _need_ out of the splatbooks, you can ask him and if he approves he'll repost it here so everyone can use it.

besides, Number47 has _already said_ that he has none of the splatbooks. if we just use OGL stuff, that means most of it will generally be online and free for the downloading to everyone.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 16, 2003)

You do realize OGL stuff includes some stuff which may be considered broken in like: the encyclopaedia arcane series.  Not to mention they're very rules heavy, to allow someone those is like to force everyone else to read through 10 pages of rules to find out its weaknesses or strengths or just general mechanics...


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

Oh BTW, what are we doing about Hit Points in this game? Or did I miss something already?


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## reapersaurus (Mar 16, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *reaper; with the Netbook, the only things getting cut out are splatty items and PrC's. besides, if there's some specific thing you just need out of the splatbooks, you can ask him and if he approves he'll repost it here so everyone can use it.
> 
> besides, Number47 has already said that he has none of the splatbooks. if we just use OGL stuff, that means most of it will generally be online and free for the downloading to everyone. *



How exactly would I find .... The Quintissential Cleric PrC's online, Seap?
How could I peruse Sollir's Encyclopedia Arcane series to determine the best ways to counter the cheese that's in there?

Trust me - I fear there's more than enough completely broken stuff in the OGL to substitute for WotC non-core stuff.

The reason I'm bringing this up is that I'm trying to look out for the integrity of seasong's good-looking Game here (parity of competition will probably not be enhanced by allowing OGL stuff in), and also save us players a lot of reading and acquiring of countless pages of potentially-dominating OGL material, that you really can't defend against it all anyway.

The only option that provides for universal access to material is going only core material for this Game.
However, I don't think that is very interesting, and actually favors people who only concentrated on core stuff, though we all could re-learn power gaming to only include core material.

Seriously, I don't think we should be limiting the excitingness of the game just because Number47 doesn't have access to splatbooks. (no offense, #47)
I don't think his competetiveness in the Games has been hampered, and he could always get them if he wants to use them in the Games.
A survey might be good - who has access to material from the splatbooks? (remembering that much of them has been talked about and posted for years on the ENBoards).

edit: Breakdaddy, I'm sure it was already posted:
I think it's Max HP's for all levels for PC's.
Max @ 1st, then half-HP's (literally) for cohorts.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

Thanks, I am currently making hard copies of all the pertinent postings, and lo and behold, you are right. Thanks for the heads up reapersaurus.

-B


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

I don't really mind if others use sources I don't have. The important thing is, what does the DM own? I wish there was some proof that people using the books actually paid for them, but unfortunately pirating is rampant and we can't prove what we own over the internet.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

When you said Language A, B, C or D, did you literally mean that there are only four languages available to know?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Whew, quite the discussion broke out while I was eating and running down to my FLGS for more books .

*First, Big Comment:* I am not allowing any and all OGL in. You will not have to know every OGL item out there. OGL is allowed (read the rules) on a CASE-BY-CASE basis. And if I DO allow it, I will also repost it here, where everyone can see and think about counters. I can do that with OGL, whereas I can't do that with non-OGL.

There is a veritable ton of OGL stuff out there, just like there is a veritable ton of WotC stuff out there... but only a small subsection of it will actually be in this game (probably 2-5 items per person, so _maybe_ 50-60 items to read, tops).

*Second Comment:* Switching to splatbooks will change only ONE thing: I can no longer repost the stuff here for public view. If it's OGL, I can post it, and everyone gets equal access to the horribly broken whatever I allowed in the game. If it's a non-OGL splatbook, I can't. That's it. That's all that changes.

*Third Comment:* Please understand that my goal is not to make sure everyone has equal characters/strategies - just that they have an equal chance at equal characters/strategies. If you make a weak character, I won't save your butt.

And similarly, I'm not going to nerf a strong character just because they're strong - if someone has an boring "walk here, smackdown, walk there, smackdown" character, I'll nerf it the minimum necessary to make it not boring, but no further.

That's why we're discussing the _wall of force_ issue, for example.

*Breakdaddy*

What reapersaurus said: max hit points for PCs, max at first + average for all NPCs and similar things.

*Number47*

Naw, you can know any languages you want to spend a skill point on. But you automatically know Language A, and all command words (and similar things) MUST be written in A, B, C or D. But if you learn draconic, and want to yell something in draconic that only other draconic speakers will get, you can do so.

The reason for it is just to simplify my job - I'd really rather not keep track of 40+ items in 12+ languages and who can read what. For character creation purposes, it means 4 skill points and you're good, unless you want to yell something in a different language.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Four skill points? I don't follow that. Do you mean that everyone knows language A and can know languages B, C and D for six skill points (cross class), or three for bards? I assume these languages can also be taken as bonus languages for a high intelligence?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

No, that was just my math error. I meant 3 (THREE) skill points. And yes, they can be taken as bonus languages.

Actually, if people stress about this, I'll probably just reduce everything to language A. The goal is to not have to worry about command words. That's all.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

Also, will we be able to loot the bodies of those we have beat down or will they vanish in a similar puff of smoke to that which they originally appeared in?


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Breakdaddy: There is no special house rule involved here. No disappearing in a puff of smoke, no dissolving into the ground .

However, keep in mind that looting takes time, identifying magic takes time... and every round you are doing that instead of fighting or performing, you are losing points!


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> You do realize OGL stuff includes some stuff which may be considered broken in like: the encyclopaedia arcane series.  Not to mention they're very rules heavy, to allow someone those is like to force everyone else to read through 10 pages of rules to find out its weaknesses or strengths or just general mechanics...



This brings up something I should have thought of, and so I'll say here and now: I'm not accepting new _rule sets_, OGL or not. I'm not allowing psionics because *I* don't understand them well enough, and the same thing applies here.

You can ask me to allow an OGL feat, magic item, spell, PrC, weapon, etc. Don't ask me to include _Elements of Magic_ new system for spell casting - I don't understand it well enough, and I'm not going to ask everyone else to learn it, either.

And to make clear once again: The only rules you will have to deal with are the core books, those that I post in this thread, and those I have to make in-game (which I am hoping to _minimize_ by hashing it all out in this thread ahead of time).


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> I don't really mind if others use sources I don't have. The important thing is, what does the DM own?




Core books. Some other stuff that doesn't matter for this game. Mongoose's Ultimate Feats, Ultimate Prestige Classes. Some other stuff. Some really nasty stuff I won't allow in this game .

The only stuff that matters is the stuff posted here with a shiny new approval sticker on it .


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## Jeremy (Mar 16, 2003)

Scanning sucks.  That's all I have to say about that.

Watch out Seasong, big file attachment coming your way.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Note: Part of the fun of clockworkjoe's game was in not knowing what the map would look like. I've pretty much shot that to heck already with discussion of the form of the arena. So... here's what it will look like.

I am not a l33t movable type person, have no cool CGI scripts, etc., so I will not be updating this map every round (unless you want a week per round). Instead, I will be updating _known positions_ on the X,Y (height) grid.

Without further ado...


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

Got my spot picked out already


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Scanning sucks.  That's all I have to say about that.
> 
> Watch out Seasong, big file attachment coming your way.



Boy, no kidding. Yipes! And me on a dial-up 

Note: I actually received 2 files from you, one about 1/4 MB and one about 2 MB. I can not seem to open the smaller one.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

Ack! Yer on dialup? Man this is gonna be some loving for your ISP! Ill try to keep scans to a minimum and stick as much as possible to cut and paste!


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## Jeremy (Mar 16, 2003)

The 1/4 mb was what the Hotmail SMTP let through before it chopped it off as too big.  Delete it.  It's 2 megs and I had to send it through an alternate SMTP.


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## Angcuru (Mar 16, 2003)

You took my name. As*munch.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 16, 2003)

Does this Ultimate Feats by Mongoose Publishing include the Feats from the PHB? I am kicking around the idea of dropping the ducats for this book, but at 35 bones its a tad steep. Not to hijack at all, I just wanted to know.


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## seasong (Mar 16, 2003)

It includes all of the SRD feats.


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## Number47 (Mar 16, 2003)

Nearly done with my character. Should be fun. I'll send it simply typed in my e-mail.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*More OGL Stuff That Has Been Approved*

*A Divinatory Headband*

> 1st level spell, at will: 2,000 GP x 1 x 1 = 2,000 GP
> 3rd level spell, 1/day, free action: 400 GP x 5 x 3 = 6,000 GP
> 5th level spell, 1/day, free action: 400 GP x 9 x 5 = 18,000 GP
> TOTAL = 26,000 GP

All of the spells must be Core Book spells, and detection-style in nature (detect magic, true sight, etc.). This isn't really an OGL item so much as it is an example of a clever idea.

I am also open to similar ideas for rings or other "takes up an item slot" items that cast a few utility spells.

*Potion*

Draconic Might (1200 GP)
STR +4, CON +4, Movement +10 ft.
Duration: 1 hour.

*Frenzied Attack (general feat, fighter feat)*
Prereq: Power Attack, BAB +4 or higher.
Benefit: When you make a full attack action, you may take an additional attack at your highest BAB. However, this additional attack and all other attacks during that round suffer a -4 penalty.
Special: Monks may combine this with Flurry of Blows for two extra attacks total, but they suffer both penalties (for a total of -6).

*Bonded Weapon (fighter feat)*
Prereq: BAB +8 or higher, Improved Critical (with weapon), Weapon Proficiency (with weapon), Weapon Focus (with weapon), Weapon Specialization (with weapon).
Benefit: Choose a single, unique weapon. You must use the weapon exclusively (no other weapons) for a month, after which you name the weapon. You gain an additional +2 to attack rolls and +1 to damage rolls with that unique weapon. This stacks with _weapon focus_ and _weapon specialization_. You suffer a -2 on all attack rolls with all other weapons, even weapons of the same type.
Special: If the weapon is destroyed, you suffer the -2 penalty normally until you can bond with another weapon (after using it for a month exclusively).

*Two-Handed Power Strike (general feat, fighter feat)*
Prereq: STR 15+, Power Attack.
Benefit: You add twice your STR bonus when using a two-handed close combat weapon with both hands (no reach or ranged weapons). This feat may not be used in the same round as _improved initiative_ or _lightning initiative_, and may only be applied when you are using the full attack combat option.
Normal: Without this feat, the character would add one and a half times their STR bonus in the same situation.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Oh Gawd.. PrCs are going to be PAINFUL to write up and post. I'm going to cry.

*Brute*

Okay, a few notes. For PrCs, I expect them to be balanced according to the guiding principles laid out by WotC. The Brute, as originally written, was not balanced in line with that, so I nerfed the tar out of it. The monster written up below is STILL overly powerful in his chosen field, but he is also balanced in line with D&D and this game in particular.

In particular, I dropped about 6 extra feats that the Brute got other than that listed below, and nerfed Relentless Assault (which was originally non-resistable) and Batter Foe (which originally DOUBLED subdual damage).

Anyway, consider this a case study.

Prereqs: BAB +7 or higher, Intimidate 5 ranks, Power Attack, Toughness.

HD: d10.
BAB: as Fighter.
Saves: as Fighter.
Class Skills: Climb (STR), Craft (INT), Intimidate (CHR), Jump (STR), Ride (DEX), Swim (STR).
Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + INT modifier.
Proficiency: as Fighter.

Abilities by level:
1 - Improved Power Attack
3 - Shield Breaker
5 - Relentless Assault
6 - Onslaught
8 - Batter Steel
9 - Batter Foe
10 - Brutal Assault

These are summarized. Please let me know if you need more detail, but they seem reasonably simple to me right now.

Improved Power Attack: As per Power Attack, but the damage bonus is doubled (if you reduce your attack by -5 to hit, you get +10 to damage).

Shield Breaker: If an opponent's AC is improved by a shield or _expertise_, and the Brute misses by an amount equal to or less than the bonus from the shield or _expertise_ (NOT COUNTING MAGICAL BONUSES, such as +1 on a shield, or a defending weapon), the Brute does his damage to the shield or _expertise_ weapon instead (all hardness rules, etc., apply normally).

Relentless Assault: When ever the Brute uses Power Attack or Improved Power Attack, he gets a free, immediate Bull Rush (does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity) against that opponent. If he successfully pushes the opponent back, he automatically takes a 5 foot step in the direction the opponent was shoved. The Brute may not move further than his basic move in this way.

Onslaught: The Brute may take twice the normal maximum penalty in conjunction with Power Attack and Improved Power Attack. Thus, if he has a BAB of +11, he can take up to a -22 to hit, for +44 to damage.

Batter Steel: Damage against inanimate objects with a hardness rating is doubled.

Batter Foe: The Brute may choose to do subdual damage for no penalty to hit (normally the penalty is -4).

Brutal Assault: This works like Shield Breaker, but now applies to armor as well.


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## Number47 (Mar 17, 2003)

It seems funny that you nerfed Batter Foe. It isn't possible for a person to have, the max levels available in this class is 8 for this game. Does anyone else picture a deep-fryer when you read Batter Foe?


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## Saepiroth (Mar 17, 2003)

holy jesus, that's a monster of a PrC.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> It seems funny that you nerfed Batter Foe. It isn't possible for a person to have, the max levels available in this class is 8 for this game. Does anyone else picture a deep-fryer when you read Batter Foe?



I wanted to show what kinds of things I'm likely to nerf in the OGL stuff I receive. And it was originally an 8th level ability, but I swapped it out with Batter Steel so it would be more useful in this game (the dropped subdual damage is kind of whoop-de-doo).

And for Batter Steel, I get an image of an iron chef rust monster...


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## reapersaurus (Mar 17, 2003)

I must be reading Divinatory Headband wrong:
wouldn't that allow a free strike spell cast as a free action for every attack you want?
+20 to every attack for 2,000?


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> holy jesus, that's a monster of a PrC.



Naw... that same PrC with an irresistable _relentless assault_, doubled subdual damage, several rounds of Toughness (+3 hp per), and a bizarre "howling" special ability... that's a monster of a PrC .

Seriously... I don't think this PrC will be a problem. I've nerfed everything that I thought might be a problem .


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> I must be reading Divinatory Headband wrong:
> wouldn't that allow a free strike spell cast as a free action for every attack you want?
> +20 to every attack for 2,000?



Thank you for pointing that out! We'll say "detection effects": Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Detect Undead, and Identify.

You could also do  any of the following for 1,000 GP: Detect Poison, Detect Magic, Read Magic.

Sound better?


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 17, 2003)

I have a boatload of PRCs scanned in to my PC for the sake of quick indexing, it would be a simple matter of OCRing them and cut/paste them here to get anything Ive scanned over, Seasong. Just let me know the name of the PRC in question and Ill see about posting it for you so you dont have to type it in.


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 17, 2003)

Note that I don't have a special script or anything to update the map. I just have Dreamweaver and update it with that. It is very very easy to do it with that program or probably any wysiwyg html editor.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*Breakdaddy:* That would be awesome of you, thanks! Although if you could just e-mail them to me - I suspect I will have to modify some of them (looking through PrCs, I'm surprised at how poorly designed many of these are - it's like they didn't have a forum of peers to take it apart, or something ).

*clockworkjoe:* Wow. Well, uh, I won't be doing that . I do my HTML by hand for the most part, and the bandwidth for a pretty map like yours would cost too much at my ISP. So I'll have to stick with what I've got.

Which reminds me: I AM working on a website, but it probably won't be up until we get started, and mainly it will just be a reference source for what characters look like, the map, etc. All of the action will be happening here, in an ENWorld thread.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 17, 2003)

no problem seasong, just let me know and Ill send if I have. I have everything in Mongooses Ultimate PRC guide, so request away and I will try to OCR and send to your email addy.

Edit: I have a few more scans than just ultimate PRCs, but they are sporadic (mainly stuff Ive used). Either way, ask and Ill send if I have


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

_Edit: added clarification under Freedom of Movement._
_Edit: added Near and Far feat._
_Edit: made a decision on Pearls of Power & metamagicked scrolls._

Note: I put the titles in orange so I can find these quickly. I will collect all of these into one place at some point, and then go over each character point-by-point with the character in one hand, and this file in the other. I'll do my best to make sure you don't make a character that gets hosed by an unexpected ruling.

With that said, all the usual disclaimers of my being human, no Game of Death goes without one ruling mid-game, yadda yadda.

*More Rulings & Clarifications*

*Freedom of Movement:* This spell does exactly what it says - allows you to move normally. That does NOT give you a swim movement rate, but it does allow you to do a full run along the bottom of a lake and swing a rapier as if through air. If you have the _fly_ spell, item or ability, you can also fly through water with _freedom of movement_. If you have a spell that provides a swim movement rate, it will not interfere with _freedom of movement_ and vice versa.

Clarification Note: You can still swim with _freedom of movement_, but your movement rate is the normal swimming movement rate; it may be more advantageous for you to run along the bottom and then swim up to where you want to be.

*Leomund's Secret Chest:* This does not work in this arena, as it relies on access to the ethereal plane.

*Dismissal (and similar effects):* You can attempt to _dismiss_ summoned creatures (via the _monster summoning_ and similar spells), and cohorts (if the cohort is extraplanar on the prime material plane), but you can not _dismiss_ PCs - Hethas is holding them here with divine force, and they can't escape, even with your help . The _dismissal_ spell will be handled strictly according to the rules, so there is a solid chance it will fail.

*Flamberge Enhancement:* For 1,000 GP, you can change a greatsword into a flamberge. A flamberge weighs 1 pound more, has a critical threat range of 18-20, and is otherwise identical. This is a nerfed (increased cost) version of the original flamberge OGL material, which did the same thing for 100 GP eek: ).

*Near and Far (General Feat)*
Your skill with long weapons is extraordinary.
Benefit: When using a weapon with reach, you may attack adjacent foes as well as those within the reach of your weapon. This does not provide any additional attacks.
NEAR AND FAR Copyright 2001, Michael J. Kletch

*BANNED STUFF*

*Dragonscale from Quint Fighter:* BANNED. It has the same stats as Epic scale mail, and so I've revised the cost to something appropriate - 640,000 to 810,000 GP. And for the player who brought it to my attention, thank you.

*Four Color to Fantasy:* BANNED. I've looked over this, and I can't find anything in here which is useful to a D&D game as opposed to a superhero game. To the player who brought it to my attention, thank you.

*Odd 8th Level Spell Magic Item Questions:* BANNED. Pearl of Power may allow someone to cast an extra 8th level spell. A metamagicked scroll may take an 8th level slot, but BE a 7th or lower level spell. This is a vaguely gray area, but I'm trying to avoid sketchy rulings, so these are both banned. To the player who found this gray area, thank you (and I'm sorry).


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## cool hand luke (Mar 17, 2003)

*2 questions*

ok, I'm sending a call out for all of you people that understand, and have access to OGL material.  Is there anything like the forsaker PRC out of masters of the wild that would be in some allowable format?  and what about the Large and in charge feat from sword and fist, anything similiar to that?


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## cool hand luke (Mar 17, 2003)

*props*

let's give a hand to seasong for the hard work he's already put into this thing!


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## Saepiroth (Mar 17, 2003)

wait... why did you even need to bother to ban Dragonscale? if you moved it to 810k from 640k, doesn't it naturally cost three times as much as any character's total wealth even at it's original value?

Seasong is a master of the GoD running, though


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## Jeremy (Mar 17, 2003)

Because normally it's nonmagical and costs 4500.  

And as for forsaker/large and in charge, nope and nope.  Why make an OGL version of there is a WotC version is what the publishers figure.    Plus they don't want to mess with copyrights.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

I have further clarified _freedom of movement_. I had no idea it was so open to interpretation .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 17, 2003)

darn, so much for that concept, back to the drawing board.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Forsaker: In the Netbook of Classes (http://www.fancc.net/nboc/), Volume I, there is a PrC called Puritan which is built around denial of magic. If someone wants it, be warned that I'll nerf the tar out of the Cancel Magic ability, but the rest of it looks decent.

Large & In Charge: I don't have my books at work, but I think I remember something among the dragon feats which, adjusted for size, would be reasonable. Not as overwhelmingly twinky as LAIC, mind, but reasonably good .


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> wait... why did you even need to bother to ban Dragonscale? if you moved it to 810k from 640k, doesn't it naturally cost three times as much as any character's total wealth even at it's original value?



Adopts best Ripley (from Aliens) voice, "Nuke it from orbit. It's the only way to be sure."

And it's actually 6-8 times the maximum amount you can spend on a single item. So it was kind of redundant .


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Added Near & Far feat (in the orange section above).


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*Feat*

Not Approved Yet: I got's to think about it.

*Standing Rush (General Feat, Fighter Feat)*
You can use your bulk and shifted body weight to knock someone back as effectively as if you'd run into them.
Prereq: STR 13+, Improved Bull Rush, Power Attack.
Benefit: If the character gets an Attack of Opportunity on an opponent who provoked the attack by moving closer to the character, the character may make a bull rush attempt on the opponent instead of a normal Attack of Opportunity. This is handled just like a normal bull rush, except that the character does not move.

Regarding order of events with this feat: This is considered an Attack of Opportunity (it just doesn't do damage). Thus, it happens in the middle of the other person's turn, during whatever action prompted the AoO. This can force spell casters to make a Concentration check, prevent someone from getting close to you (although if they have another move equivalent action, they can attempt to get close to you again), and so on. If someone is moving past you to attack, and you shove them into a position where they can not attack, well, that's that.

Regarding bull rush rules: This bull rush does not provoke an Attack of Opportunity - see the prerequisite feats.

Regarding movement: The character can follow the opponent, but only to a maximum of 5 feet (this is a 5 foot step). Distance shoved is limited to 10 feet.


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## Jeremy (Mar 17, 2003)

If it matters, I like it.  It doesn't have a damage based DC like large and in charge, and it denies you the chance to damage your foe unlike laic, it works off the bull rush mechanic, and it's got actual prerequisites and they make sense.  

I like it.


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 17, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Breakdaddy: That would be awesome of you, thanks! Although if you could just e-mail them to me - I suspect I will have to modify some of them (looking through PrCs, I'm surprised at how poorly designed many of these are - it's like they didn't have a forum of peers to take it apart, or something ).
> 
> clockworkjoe: Wow. Well, uh, I won't be doing that . I do my HTML by hand for the most part, and the bandwidth for a pretty map like yours would cost too much at my ISP. So I'll have to stick with what I've got.
> 
> Which reminds me: I AM working on a website, but it probably won't be up until we get started, and mainly it will just be a reference source for what characters look like, the map, etc. All of the action will be happening here, in an ENWorld thread. *




Actually, I only use up a few hundred megs of bandwidth a month on slangdesign. The GoD hasn't even come close to a gig of traffic for any month that its been running.

And if it works for you, go for it. But you could add comments to each cell of the table giving the xy coordinates of the cell so you could just do a search and then add in the appropriate img src tags when needed.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 17, 2003)

*character sheets*

do you have a specific format you want our character sheets in?


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*clockworkjoe:* Thanks, that's a good idea. I'll play with it later this week and see if I can do an update-able map. If I can, woo hoo!

*Jeremy:* It matters.

*cool hand luke:* Yes. I just don't know what it is, yet, so I'm not holding anyone to it. I do know that I want ability scores broken out (how you spent the points, what the starting scores were, your race modifiers, level modifiers, magic items, all separate), and I want you to show what order you took your class levels in, and I want to know what order you took your feats in. Everything else... Agh. I wish I had a good standard, but there's just so much stuff on a character sheet .

*A slightly different topic*

As characters flood in like a drippy faucet, I've noticed that I'm nerfing an awful lot of things. I don't want this to become "Thomas Weigel's Nerfbat Game", so I'm going to point out why I nerf what I nerf. And also some of my concerns about nerfing too much .

*Non-resistable events.* Some things are meant to be non-resisted. Most things are not. In particular, a Game of Death is not much fun if it becomes a game of Initiative, so most non-resisted things will be given some form of resistance, whether that is a saving throw (Harm) or a bull rush mechanic (Brute, LAIC).

Not all will, of course - generally, with the exception of the few glaring examples of abuse-heavy ones in the core rules, I'll leave core rules alone.

*Multiple stacking events.* If you can stack a bunch of core rule modifiers to get an obscene bonus to hit, to damage, to spell DC, whatever... more power to you. If you're just plumbing every rule book out there for modifiers with different names so you can stack them, that's not a challenge at all - it's pathetically easy, and not worthy of a Game of Death. I want tactics, not supplement book bean counting. My usual fix is to rename the bonuses to something appropriate, or to simply ban the item in question.

*The same, only better.* A lot of supplements, in some sort of weird arms race mentality, recreate items in the core rulebooks, only with a slight edge (and no sacrifices in return). The flamberge, for example, is a greatsword with an improved critical threat. No reduced hardness for its weaker design, no exotic weapon required, nothing (well, okay, +1 lb on a 15 lb thing). It's just a better greatsword, for not a lot more money. That's not a "new" option, its an "obsolete the old" option. In some cases, I like the idea, and I'll nerf it a bit (or make it costly enough to stay in line with the core stuff); in other cases, I ban it.

*Prestige Classes.* PrCs are an upgrade to core classes. In return for accepting a more limited role and/or certain weaknesses that a generalist would not have, you are more powerful than the generalist in that role. The arcane archer, for example, should be weaker in a toe-to-toe fight, but dominates a fighter with a bow (or at least should). The brute, similarly, does poorly in ranged combat compared to a fighter, but dominates in a toe-to-toe fight.

At the same time, while being _better_ at the role, the PrC should not be completely untouchable in that role. A fighter should have a (slim) chance against a brute toe-to-toe, and a (slim) chance against an arcane archer in a fight across a chasm.

So when I look at a PrC, I usually find the closest core class to the PrC's role, make sure that the PrC is weaker in areas not associated with its role, and then make sure it is more powerful (but not overwhelmingly so) in the scope of its role.

Some PrCs, of course, go a completely different route. They create a wholly new role, such as the forsaker - there is no role for "going around and breaking magic items", although someone presumably could give it a shot. In this case, I attempt to make sure that the PrC is balanced in a manner similar to the cleric and the wizard - they do different things, but they are on roughly equal ground for how well they do them.

*Nerfing too much.* Some GMs will disagree with me on this, of course, but I feel that D&D characters SHOULD be powerful. They should be able to specialize and become monsters of destruction. They should be able to summon a hellish creature from beyond and bind it to their will. And while there are concerns for making an interesting Game of Death (non-resistable events, for example), I don't want to nerf a character past that.

_(You may disagree with me on whether or not I DID nerf you past that, of course - I'm stating my goal, rather than my utter competence, here .)_

My usual goal when nerfing is to take one of three munchkin characters I've built (one for range, one for melee, one for spell duelling), and compare the most appropriate one to the character I've just nerfed.
	
	



```
[color=skyblue]A is my character, B is yours.

              Nerfed   Pure     Result
A destroys B  Yes      Yes      Don't nerf.
A destroys B  Yes      Barely   Don't nerf.
A destroys B  Yes      No       Hazy; think harder.
A destroys B  Barely   No       Consider nerf.
A destroys B  No       No       Consider nerf.
B destroys A  Yes      Yes      Consider nerf.
B destroys A  Barely   Yes      Consider nerf.
B destroys A  No       Yes      Hazy; think harder.
B destroys A  No       Barely   Don't nerf.
B destroys A  No       No       Don't nerf.[/color]
```
Obviously, my characters aren't the be-all, end-all of munchkins (although from what I've seen so far, they're pretty good). That's why I don't have an automatic nerf up there, just an automatic "too weak to nerf". If your pure character can't handle mine, there is no good reason to nerf the character.

Anyway, I hope all of this made sense, and helped y'all get a sense of my reasoning when I harsh on your character concept . And during this discussion phase, please remember that if you see a nerf that seems inappropriate, I want to hear about it. Until I declare the issue closed, it's open for discussion (just remember that when I DO declare it closed, it's closed and I'll have no sass back ).


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## Number47 (Mar 17, 2003)

Your Haste nerf needs to be cleared up more. We know it doesn't allow a casting of an extra spell, but does it allow the use of any magic items? What kind of magic items?


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*Anti-Nerf*

*Prismatic Spray:* As the rules stand, a violet ray does nothing if it hits someone, as it attempts to shift them to another plane and Hethas prevents it. I don't like the idea of a spell "doing nothing" at random, so I am considering either allowing the violet ray to do something else (perhaps a random teleport to a random location in the arena) or just reroll whenever the violet ray comes up.

Anyways, my mind is pretty open on this issue right now, so please throw me some comments.


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## Number47 (Mar 17, 2003)

Comments:

I like the Standing Rush. Not overpowered in the least. Clarify if the movement is free for the rusher. EDIT: Also clarify what happens to the guy who provoked the rush. It is in the _middle_ of his action.

Probably should axe the Pearl and the meta'd scrolls.

I vote for a new or re-roll effect for Prismatic Spray. It is not an overpowered spell for seventh level and doesn't need nerfing.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Your Haste nerf needs to be cleared up more. We know it doesn't allow a casting of an extra spell, but does it allow the use of any magic items? What kind of magic items?



Hm, I guess that wasn't clear .

I didn't nerf _haste_ so much as I nerfed _hasted spell casters_. The only rule I added was that spell casting was limited to a maximum of 1 _quickened_ spell and 1 normal spell, and specified that _haste_ did not get around that restriction.

You can use any magic item, as long as it does not require more than a partial (or move equivalent) action. You can even cast a spell with your _haste_ action, as long as you don't exceed the overall limit of 1 _quickened_ spell and 1 normal spell.

For scrolls, I'll get back to you when I'm home and have my books in front of me, so I can give a strict ruling. I _think_ scrolls "allow you to cast a spell", in which case it falls under the usual limits. But if not, I'm not worried about allowing scrolls to be read.


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## Jeremy (Mar 17, 2003)

Heh.  Makes sense.  Also makes it a dangerously level playing field for those that don't have lots of tactical options from spells or items or the like.



Ah well, just a game.  I'm going to play this one for all the fun I can get and leave the winning to smarter players.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

I've added clarifications to the Standing Rush. Mostly, though, it amounts to:

a) This is an Attack of Opportunity. It interrupts*.
b) I don't want high-STR monsters getting an AoO and having a resulting sprint across the field.

* This reminded me of Buttercup's quote on Powerpuff Girls, "It's what I do. I'm a monster... I surprise!"

*Jeremy:* Are you talking bout the Standing Rush, the Haste clarifications, or something else?


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*Gray Spells In 8th level slots*

After careful thought (although not many comments), I've decided that Pearls of Power may not be used to recover an 8th level spell, and scrolls may not have a 7th level or lower spell that has been metamagicked to 8th level. I've updated the appropriate post, so I can find this ruling again .

I don't think this would be a problem in and of itself, but it opens up too many gray areas, and I'd rather have a solid, absolute rule for a game like this.

Wands and staffs are subject to the same limitation, of course .


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## Jeremy (Mar 17, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *
> Jeremy: Are you talking bout the Standing Rush, the Haste clarifications, or something else? *




Was actually referring to your nerf/nonerf system, I just hit reply back when you posted and didn't get the chance to submit it until much later due to a rush of calls.


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## seasong (Mar 17, 2003)

*DANGER WILL ROBINSON*

Okay, so here's the thing: some people are waiting to send in their characters until they see what all the rules are. That's fine and dandy, however... the list of rules will be added to as soon as they send me any new OGL stuff.

So, at the VERY LEAST, please e-mail me any OGL stuff or questions you have about your potential character, so that I can make a ruling on it and get things moving.

I would like to have a fairly complete list of what I am going to allow by this coming weekend, so that I can finalize stuff and have characters ready by the end of this month (which is coming fast).

*Also, if I don't hear from you by Friday, I am going to have to open your slot in the competition to someone else. I can't wait indefinitely.*


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## Jeremy (Mar 17, 2003)

[tongue in cheek]Yeah!  So quit scavenging our ideas or planning your defenses based on likely opposition.  [/tongue in cheek]

Jump in there and play your character, not a buffet of our choices or the perfectly designed anti-character to the things you've seen.  I can tell you from my personal knowledge that not everything you've seen already is going to be in play due to dropped chars and trial and error.

So let's go!


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## Saepiroth (Mar 17, 2003)

i think I am mostly done with my guy... i'm only using stuff that's been already OGLed here and core, so it should be clean.

insane cackling chain masters unite!


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## Jeremy (Mar 17, 2003)

"Pardon me ser, but your huge chain seems to be hanging in the wind."

"Is that your chain?"

"There is a huge chain parked in an illegal zone.  Black in color, lots of spikes."

I knew I was going to regret posting that link.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 18, 2003)

if it were possible, I'd replace his right arm with it.

anyway, don't worry. "Cholestus" isn't any more beefy than "Saepiroth", he's just more streamlined. as strange as it is, i actually had a _design concept_ this time.


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## Jeremy (Mar 18, 2003)

Use Magic Device/Graft Weapon?    Have to have an npc like that some time.    Bust through a wall or something and start flailing.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 18, 2003)

meh... i don't have the skill points to waste on that for flavor, though i'd REALLY want to.




...wait, can I "buy" an application of a psionic power? 
...no, it's "range: personal"


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Saepiroth: Also, no psionics.


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 18, 2003)

somewhat unrelated, but I've decided the next game o' death that I run will be epic level but with a twist: only the player's followers (no cohorts) and recruited monsters can fight, the players and their cohorts just watch from the stands. 

Also, I am working on the community GoD site, but real life issues keep me from putting enough time to finish it quickly. 

And finally, I'll be taking notes for this game to see what works and what doesn't. Its interesting to see a different style of DMing in action.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 18, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Saepiroth: Also, no psionics. *



 yeah, you know, it probably would've helped me in the first place if i had actually taken the care to _read_ your very second post. that sort of thing always seems to mess me up!


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> somewhat unrelated, but I've decided the next game o' death that I run will be epic level but with a twist: only the player's followers (no cohorts) and recruited monsters can fight, the players and their cohorts just watch from the stands.



SahWEET. You must allow me to play .







> And finally, I'll be taking notes for this game to see what works and what doesn't. Its interesting to see a different style of DMing in action.



I would be very interested in your insights. In fact, if you have anything you're willing to share now, before I get in any deeper over my head, please e-mail me!  "seasong at texas dot net"

As a side note, I am working on the next batch of approvals/bans. Those should be up in less than an hour.


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

*More Rulings & Approvals & Bans*

*Greater Overrun (general feat, fighter feat)*
It becomes easier to make overruns.
Prereq: STR 13+.
Benefit: On a charge, you can overrun more than one target. When not charging, you can make a single overrun. You can make overruns even if you have not moved 10 ft. You still trigger attacks of opportunity in the normal fashion.
  GREATER OVERRUN Copyright 2001, Carl Cramér
  Balance: 4.18 (Purp 4.60, Pow 4.00, Port 4.00, Comp 4.00, Rule 4.30)

*Lion's Charge (general feat)*
You learn from the lion to pounce and attack in a single fluid movement.
Prereq: DEX 13+, BAB +10 or higher, Dodge, Mobility, Power Attack.
Benefit: When making a charge, you may make a full attack at the end of the charge. When using this ability, you must move at least 10 feet, and may not exceed your base move. If you exceed your base move, you may still make a normal, single attack as per the charge rules.
Normal: Without this feat, you may only make one attack at the end of a charge, and you may move up to double your base move.

*Armed Deflect Arrows (general feat, fighter feat)*
Prereq: DEX 13+, Weapon Focus.
Benefit: You gain the use of the Deflect Arrows feat, but can only use this ability when wielding a melee weapon you have Weapon Focus with. You may learn feats which require Deflect Arrows, but may only use those feats when armed with a melee weapon that you have Weapon Focus with.

*Quicksilver (general feat)*
Prereq: DEX 13+, Dodge, BAB +3 or higher.
Benefit: This increases the bonus to your AC given by the Dodge feat to +2. This still only applies to a single opponent.

*Divine Hammer (Prestige Class)*
I'm planning to allow this one, but there will be some nerfs involved. Breakdaddy, if you have this one, could you send me the OCR?

*Alternate Armor Types*
Rhino leather, chainmail of the deep, platemail of command... I'll work with you on these, if you want them. They will still be identifiable as what they are (they will be no easier to conceal than their original form), but I don't mind cool concepts that require variant armor forms.

*Larger Weapons*
Per Savage Species, each size category increase increases weight and cost by x1.5. This applies to the masterwork cost as well, but does NOT affect the cost of magic (a +2 huge longsword still costs 2,000 GP for the +1).

*BANNED*

*Improved Dodge:* BANNED. This feat allows you to apply dodge-based feats to ALL opponents. That is too powerful for a single feat to allow. I _might_ allow a feat that let you apply the dodge bonus to a single extra opponent, but this, no. To the player who found this for me, thank you.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 18, 2003)

I think Quicksilver also lets you exchange your Dodge bonus to AC into a bonus to Reflex saves against effects from the target of your dodge.  unless you cut that out.

regardless, it turned out that i had made a miscalculation _anyway_ and had no space for it. oh well! I'm so smart, i can make basic counting errors consistently!


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 18, 2003)

I'm not sure if this ruling was left out in the new Game of Deaths, but I believe that the previous DM and the previous winner are usually allowed slots in the next one, course this is still up to the decision of the DM.

My character will be done soon shortly, I'm not sure but it looks like I'll be sticking to core books with him (unless I can find a decent OGL Feat/PrC online that fits into my char concept).


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Regarding Quicksilver: Yeah, I cut that out. Like somebody's heart.

Sollir Furryfoot: The previous one doesn't have a winner yet . And really, I've got, like, a third of the players from it already! As for the DM, that doesn't sound too bad. Clockworkjoe, do you want to play?


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Well, I love all of y'all, you know that, but I'm going to bed. Work tomorrow is promising to royally suck, so I need some ZZZs to face it with .

I may post and respond to e-mail sporadically (or not at all) tomorrow, due to the aforementioned suckage, and social obligations/activities scheduled for tomorrow evening. I should be back in form on Wednesday, however, and I will look at everything then that you send me in the meantime. 

G'night!


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 18, 2003)

You will nerf the hell out of a Vorpal weapon, I presume?


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

I'm not _entirely_ certain that vorpal blades need nerfing, but I haven't really seen them in action before. Have they been nerfed historically (that is, in other Games of Death)?

Hm... Although, I know I've been looking at some really insane critical threat ranges over the past few days. Tell you what, here's some proposals, y'all let me know what you think.

a) Natural crit only. The effects of _keen_, _improved critical_ and other methods of improving the critical threat range for a weapon do not affect its likelihood of decapitating. Only a natural roll of the original, natural, unmodified critical threat range has the possibility of decapitation.

b) Fortitude save vs decapitation. On a successful Fortitude save, take an extra 2d6 damage (based _roughly_ on the +5 cost of vorpal) but not decapitated.

c) Fortification Collar. This is an armored neck collar that prevents critical hits to the neck. It's only real use is against vorpal weapons (and critical hits from garrottes), but some gladiators consider it an indispensable item. It takes up the necklace/amulate location, and comes in three varieties, Light (800 GP), Moderate (3,000 GP) and Heavy (7,000 GP). Light prevents neck criticals 25% of the time; Moderate prevents them 75% of the time; and Heavy prevents them 100% of the time. If NO OHER ARMOR is being worn, they also provide +1 enhancement bonus to AC. For purposes of special abilities, wearing a _fortification collar_ is not considered to be wearing armor. Caster Level: 13th; Prerequisites: Craft Magic Arms and Armor, limited wish or miracle.

I won't do (a) and (b) together - that's a bit much. I may allow (c) regardless, if enough people want them.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 18, 2003)

*WHOA!*

I thought that vorpal only working on a NATURAL crit was already erratad to that?  what the heck?  If not, then I need to toally redo my character, to go with one of those uber munchy crits ranges from 12-20, and pretty much promise decapitation in 1 round!


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Errata: Nope, no errata for it.

But don't get it just yet, I'm waiting to hear people's opinions. I'm taking your statement as "nerf it, kick it while it's down, nerf it some more".


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

*BANNED: Rod of Rulership*

From the SRD:
"The wielder can command the obedience and fealty of creatures within 120 feet when he or she activates the device (a standard action). Creatures totaling 300 Hit Dice can be ruled, but creatures with Intelligence scores of 12 or higher are entitled to a Will saving throw (DC 16) to negate the effect. Ruled creatures obey the wielder as if he or she were their absolute sovereign. Still, if the wielder gives a command that is contrary to the nature of the creatures commanded, the magic is broken."

This is essentially _mass charm_, an 8th level spell (one of the particularly annoying ones), with increased area, slightly reduced Will save, and the ability to command death-and-glory types to their deaths. I could nerf it, but I'd rather just ban it.

To the player who found this for me, thanks .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 18, 2003)

*NERF NERF NERF*

HECK YES
you should nerf it, otherwise you can roll in with a vorpal weapon with a 12-20 crit range, and decapitate on 45% of your rolls!  that's just nuts.


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## Jeremy (Mar 18, 2003)

The way I'd prefer to see vorpal blades work is that they increase the critical multiplier of the weapon by 2.  A powerful +5 weapon, but not capable of killing 8000 hp dragons in a single swipe.  But that's me.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 18, 2003)

*vorpal = dumb*

Vorpal makes no sense, By the rules, a halfling, with a vorpal, keen kukri ( a small weapon) could lop the head off of a giant with a crit?!! how the heck can he even REACH the head to lop it off?  and how can a small weapon hack through a neck bigger than it is?


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 18, 2003)

I agree with CoolHand on this one, I think you SHOULD nerf the hell out of vorpal blade, make it natural (pre-feat and pre-magic) crit range of the weapon.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 18, 2003)

I always preferred the "explosive critical" version of Vorpal. it goes well with my mental vision of "Vorpal" being some sort of vibroblade feature or something.

first, all critical multipliers are increased by 1; X2 to X3, X3 to X4, and X4 to X5.

second, when you roll a natural 20 (rather than just a hit in the crit range) you roll twice to confirm. if either confirms, you roll damage. if BOTH confirm, you roll damage as if for two critical hits. if you roll a 20 on either confirmation hit, you roll two more confirmation hits.

so, assume a +1 KEEN IMPROVED CRIT FAVORED CRIT OMGWTFBBQCRIT rapier which threatens on anything from 5-20. the weilder is fighting a Doorstop of Sucking -5, with an AC of too-low-to-matter. he rolls a 7, hits, and confirms the crit with a 5. roll 3d6+3 for damage. now consider if he rolls a 20 on his threat; he rolls two confirmation rolls, and gets a 10 and a 17. he then rolls 6d6+6 for damage.

now he threats on a seven, confirms with a 20, and then rolls a 1and a 20. he continues spreading upwards, branching his confirms until he stops gtting 20s. on average with this weapon he'll average about 4d6 + change on a crit threat, rather than consistent instant death. it still allows the _possibility_ of a 10,000 damage crit, but it makes it vanishingly rare.  



I saw it in the House Rules forum here, and i really do love the idea a hell of a lot more than "automatic head-lopping".


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 18, 2003)

I want to play, but there is no way i can make a character before friday. I'm incredibly bogged down by real life stuff until thursday.


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## JDragon (Mar 18, 2003)

Quick ? Regarding Quickdraw - along with what you have outlined (which I like) will it allow you as a full round action to get your full # of attacks with thrown weapons? (ie i have 3 attacks a round, can I throw 3 daggers as a full round action)

Thanks

JDragon


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

*clockworkjoe:* I don't expect characters to be finished by Friday - I just need confirmation that people are playing, and a list of what OGL material they want to use.

*Saepiroth:* The rule looks like it works, but I'm going to pass on it - it looks like the addition of a subset of rules for a single item. I'll take it as a vote for "nerf it".

*JDragon:* I don't have the books on me, right now, but I suspect my ruling will be along the lines of "no". It depends on how throwing weapons work normally, and whether there is a feat that allows multiple throws.

I'm still listening for vorpal snickety-snacks, but it sounds like there's going to be a nerf of some sort, and that there is a slight preference is for "natural pre-enhancement crits only".


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## Jeremy (Mar 18, 2003)

*speaks up*

The way I'd prefer to see vorpal blades work is that they increase the critical multiplier of the weapon by 2. A powerful +5 weapon, but not capable of killing 8000 hp dragons in a single swipe. But that's me.


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

I heard you, Jeremy . I'm just noticing the majority opinion .


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## Number47 (Mar 18, 2003)

Nerf the hell out of Vorpal, if not ban.

I think you should allow multiple thrown weapons a round with Quickdraw. There is nothing overpowered about it and it is more interesting than simply having archers or melee.


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## Jeremy (Mar 18, 2003)




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## Breakdaddy (Mar 18, 2003)

I agree with 47 on the above, I see nothing wrong with allowing quickdraw to draw up to say, three smallish weapons from ones belt and toss them quickly.


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Well, 5 out of 5 votes for nerfing, and 5 out of 8 certain players... I think I'll call that a solid call for nerfing.

So I'm going to do some number crunching this afternoon, and I'll get back to y'all on an answer for HOW I'm going to nerf it. There is a slight preference is for reducing it to natural crits only, which is probably most in line with WotC's original vision (before WE got a hold of it ), and overall, that appeals to me the most... but I want to make sure that vorpal doesn't equal victory in any toe-to-toe fight. Magic items should be enhancers, not game definers, and if a +5, keen sword doesn't define a combat, neither should a +1, vorpal sword.


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## JDragon (Mar 18, 2003)

Seasong -  I'm in for your game, and working on my character right now. So far its all core so other than my ? on thrown weapons and quickdraw it all should be simple.

JDragon


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

*Clarification*

This is a preliminary judgement: I want to check and make sure that throwing doesn't already allow this - that is, I don't want to nerf characters _without_ Quick Draw.

*Quick Draw*
Additional Benefit: When using a thrown weapon at least one size smaller than yourself, you may use your normal number of attacks (based on BAB). If you take the _rapid shot_ feat, this adds to your number of ranged attacks normally.

Note that preparing oil and similar things to be thrown takes a full round action, and _quick draw_ does not get around those limitations.


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## Number47 (Mar 18, 2003)

Hey, when do you think you might be able to give a me a few answers on my character, Xiao Fung? If you can give me a green light on the PrC, I can finish him up tonight.


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Number47: Check your e-mail. I got a few minutes to write it up. I need a response from you on which things you want to drop in order to fit the guidelines I sent you, and then I'll smooth out its ability/level progression.

Short answer: I'm going to allow it, with nerfing.


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## Jeremy (Mar 18, 2003)

Heh.  Another DM munchkin falls to the players!  Bring on the nerf stick!


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Heh.  Another DM munchkin falls to the players!  Bring on the nerf stick!


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 18, 2003)

If you need a cut and paste on any of these PRCs let me know and Ill email you. I looked through my stuff and I have Librum Equitus I and II and Ultimate Feats, along with Mercenaries by AEG and a few others that are scanned into the pc. I havent had time to scan all but the most crunchy parts of AEGs toolbox (which I realize has no PRCs in it), but damn I cant wait to have that one scanned in for portability.


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Breakdaddy: If you have Divine Hammer, I would really appreciate that one .


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## Jeremy (Mar 18, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> * *




You described your process of judging game balance as a competition between your munchkin prototypes and the submitted materials wherein if your prototypes got toasted, you considered nerfing the material that allowed the aformentioned toasting.

I was simply making a jest that if another class had to be altered, then it must have downed another munchkin.  Just a hypothetical situation I found amusing.  

More nerfings that go on, the better chance I feel my character has. So seeing nerf's puts me in a good mood and one prone to silly comments like the above.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 18, 2003)

Seasong, working on it now, will send as soon as possible


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## seasong (Mar 18, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> I was simply making a jest that if another class had to be altered, then it must have downed another munchkin.  Just a hypothetical situation I found amusing.



Why, as a matter of fact, I *am* an idiot. Heh .

Actually, it was just a straight comparison, in this case. My munchkin didn't really have a chance, if the other character was efficiently used. Which Number47 has, of course, assured me won't happen .







> More nerfings that go on, the better chance I feel my character has. So seeing nerf's puts me in a good mood and one prone to silly comments like the above.



Heh. Well, the nerfings I do rarely have anything to do with making sure everyone is equal - just that everyone has an equal chance, and that only fun kills happen.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

*A Slew of Feats...*

...and then BED. Maybe .

*Called Shot (general feat, fighter feat)*
You do more damage with pinpoint attacks.
Prerequisite: Dex 13+
Benefit: On your action, before making attack rolls for the round, you may choose to subtract an even number (-2, -4, etc.) from all attack rolls for the round and add half that number to all weapon damage rolls for dexterity-based attacks. This number may not exceed your base attack bonus. The penalty on attacks and bonus on damage apply until your next action.
Special: Creatures lacking an anatomy and thus immune to critical hits, are immune to this extra damage. Called shot can be used with ranged weapons at ranges up to 30 feet.
Notes: Dexterity-based attacks are attacks that use the dexterity modifier rather than the strength modifier for attack rolls; missile weapons, thrown weapons and weapons used with the Weapon Finesse feat. Called shot cannot be used with ranged touch attacks.
CALLED SHOT Copyright 2001, Carl Cramér
Balance: 3.80 (Purp 3.50, Pow 4.00, Port 4.00, Comp 3.75, Rule 3.75)

This originally did not have the 2:1 ratio. I changed it because otherwise it changes the balance of combat, and the purpose of strong combatants, too much. Particularly since it can be used with melee and ranged weapons, which Power Blow can not.

*Ducking Shot (general feat, fighter feat)*
You are skilled at dodging while using your ranged weapon.
Prerequisite: Point Blank Shot, Dodge, Dex 13+
Benefit: You get a +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against attacks of opportunities caused while making a ranged attack in an area threatened by your enemies.
Notes: A condition that makes you lose your Dexterity bonus to Armor Class (if any) also makes you lose dodge bonuses.
DUCKING SHOT Copyright 2001, Albert Nakano
Balance: 4.70 (Purp 4.50, Pow 4.75, Port 5.00, Comp 4.50, Rule 4.75)

*Opportunity Shot (general feat, fighter feat)*
You shoot so fast that you can make ranged attacks of opportunity at point-blank range.
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +8 or higher, Dex 13+, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot.
Benefit: When armed with a ranged weapon that is ready for use, you have an effective reach of 10 ft. (or the range increment of your weapon, whichever is less) and can make ranged attacks of opportunity in any area out to this range. You may not make ranged attacks of opportunity if you are standing in an area threatened by an opponent. You may only make one
Attack of Opportunity using this ability; Combat
Reflexes does not improve this.
Normal: Ranged weapons normally can't make attacks of opportunity, and you have no threatened area when using them.
Special: If you used Rapid Shot in the same round as you use Opportunity Shot, the -2 attack penalty applies to Opportunity Shot as well.
Notes: You can't make an attack of opportunity against an opponent with 1/2 or more cover, such as behind another character.
OPPORTUNITY SHOT Copyright 2001, Carl Cramér, Eric D. Harry
Balance: 4.25 (Purp 4.75, Pow 4.00, Port 4.25, Comp 3.75, Rule 4.50)

*Improved Opportunity Shot:*
Prerequisite: Base attack bonus +8 or higher, Dex 13+, Opportunity Shot, Point-Blank Shot, Rapid Shot.
Benefit: As for opportunity shot, but your threatened range expands to 30 feet (or twice your range increment, whichever is less).

I broke the original opportunity shot into two feats. It's pretty powerful, even broken into two, but keep in mind that this allows a maximum of one attack.

*Cross-Class Secrets (general feat)*
You can learn a prohibited skill.
Benefit: Pick any one exclusive skill. You can now learn this skill as a cross-class skill.
Special: This feat can be picked several times. It does not stack. Each time, it applies to a new skill.
Notes: If you wish to learn the formerly prohibited skill as a class skill, you can pick this feat, and the Cross-Class Learning feat (from the netbook of feats) applicable to the same skill.
CROSS-CLASS SECRETS Copyright 2001, Carl Cramér
Revised by the Netbook of Feats Review Board
Balance: 4.48 (Purp 4.80, Pow 3.80, Port 4.40, Comp 4.60, Rule 4.80)

*Cross-Class Learning (general feat)*
You can learn a cross-class skill as if it were a class skill
Benefit: Pick any two skills that are not exclusive to any class. The selected skills become class skills for all your classes from this point on.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times, but does not stack with itself. Choose two new skills to become class skills each time it is taken.
CROSS-CLASS LEARNING Copyright 2000, Bradley H. Bemis Jr.
Revised by the Netbook of Feats Review Board
Balance: 4.35 (Purp 4.75, Pow 4.00, Port 4.50, Comp 4.75, Rule 3.75)

*Cast on the Run (General feat)*
(Ultimate Feats Book)
You can keep your wits about you and focus your
magic even while running from your enemy or
moving to attack. Much like a skirmisher, you
can cast spells without interrupting your movement.
Prerequisites: Combat Casting, Dodge, Mobility.
Benefit: When using a standard action to cast a
spell, you may move before and after casting your
spell, rather than using a move-equivalent action
to move before or after casting your spell. The
total distance you move may not exceed your base
movement. The movement does not provoke an
Attack of Opportunity, but your casting provokes
one normally.

Note that Cast on the Run is actually MORE powerful than Tactical Spellcasting - who'd've thunk I'd do that? 

*Intuitive Spellcasting (general feat)*
You are able to learn more spells.
Prerequisite: Ability to cast 1st level Arcane spells without preparation (like a Bard or Sorcerer)
Benefit: You can learn one additional spell of any level that you can cast. This is a single spell, not one spell per spell level.
Special: You can choose this feat multiple times but may only learn one additional spell each time you take it.
INTUITIVE SPELL KNOWLEDGE Copyright 2001, Eric D. Harry
Balance: 4.65 (Purp 4.75, Pow 4.75, Port 4.75, Comp 4.50, Rule 4.50)

*Spell Toughness (general feat)*
Choose a school of magic, such as Evocation; you are better able to resist hostile effects from this school
Prerequisite: Base Will save bonus +4 or higher
Benefit: Against spells from the chosen school, you get a +2 bonus to all saving throws.
Special: You can take this feat multiple times. Its effects do not stack. Each time you take the feat, it applies to a new school of magic.
SPELL TOUGHNESS Copyright 2000, Michael J. Kletch
Balance: 4.30 (Purp 4.00, Pow 4.30, Port 4.30, Comp 4.30, Rule 4.60)

*Greater Spell Toughness (general feat)*
You are incredibly resistant to spells cast from a chosen school.
Prerequisite: Spell Toughness, Will save +6
Benefit: Add +4 to your saving throws against spells and spell-like effects from a chosen school of magic that you have previously chosen Spell Toughness for. This bonus supercedes (does not stack with) the bonus provided by Spell Toughness.
Special: You can choose this feat multiple times but its effects do not stack. Each time it is chosen, it must be applied to a different school of magic that meets the above prerequisites.
GREATER SPELL TOUGHNESS Copyright 2001, Eric D. Harry
Balance: 4.34 (Purp 3.60, Pow 4.60, Port 4.30, Comp 4.60, Rule 4.60)

*Dispel Mastery (general feat)*
You are an expert at dispelling spells.
Prereq: The ability to cast _dispel magic_.
Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on dispel checks, and the maximum bonus for all your dispel checks is also increased by +2.
Notes: In addition to dispel magic and greater dispelling, this feat could also be of use when casting break enchantment or quench.
DISPEL MASTERY Copyright 2001, Sébastien Adhikari
Balance: 4.80 (Purp 4.75, Pow 4.75, Port 5.00, Comp 4.50, Rule 5.00)

Note: I will allow this to stack with Spell Focus: Abjuration. It is narrow enough that I think the loss of the feat pays for the extra stacking.

*Bonus Spells Focus (general feat)*
Choose one spellcasting class. You receive more bonus spells for that class.
Prerequisite: Spellcaster level 4th+
Benefit: You gain a +2 bonus to the appropriate ability score for the purposes of determining how many bonus spells you have available to you in the chosen class.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times if you have multiple spellcasting classes. Each time you take this feat, it applies to a different class.
BONUS SPELLS FOCUS Copyright 2001, William Setzer
Balance: 3.76 (Purp 3.80, Pow 3.60, Port 3.60, Comp 4.00, Rule 3.80)

*Armored Caster (general feat)*
You can reduce your chance of arcane spell failure when wearing armor.
Prerequisite: Armor Proficiency (in category of armor), Dex 13+.
Benefit: You can reduce your chance of arcane spell failure by 10%. Arcane spell failure can not be reduced below 5%.
Special: This feat does NOT stack.
  ARMORED CASTER Copyright 2001, Bradley H. Bemis Jr.
  Balance: 4.58 (Purp 4.50, Pow 4.20, Port 4.20, Comp 5.00, Rule 5.00)

*BANNED*

*Bow Mastery:* BANNED. This is the same as a second weapon focus that can stack with the original weapon focus, only better. To the player who found this for me, thanks .

*Combat Archery:* BANNED. There is a better feat, called Ducking Shot, which is more in line with the balance of feats like Mobility and Combat Casting.

*Improved Dodge:* Still BANNED. Nope. Haven't changed my mind. It must be good, though, I keep getting the question .

*Tactical Spellcasting:* BANNED. There is a better feat, called Cast on the Run, which is more in line with Spring Attack and Shot on the Run.

*Draconic Bloodline:* BANNED. Universal bonus to spell DCs, AND a new favored class, in return for... a vulnerability to dragonbane weapons? What? No. To the player who found this for me, thanks .


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## Saepiroth (Mar 19, 2003)

i love the way you thank people who "found" things for you to ban. combined with your avatar, I just break out laughing.


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## Number47 (Mar 19, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Dispel Mastery (general feat)*
> You are an expert at dispelling spells.
> Prereq: The ability to cast _dispel magic_.
> Benefit: You get a +2 bonus on dispel checks, and the maximum bonus for all your dispel checks is also increased by +2.
> ...




Spell Focus does not apply to caster level checks in the first place, only for save DCs. This, of course, means that Spell Focus: Abjuration was pretty much worthless in the first place.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

*Saepiroth:* Heh. Well, I figure, SOMEONE's gonna ask me, and the person who does helps me prevent the question from coming up again (except for Improved Dodge, it seems). And really, testing the limits is part of the game, yes?

*Number47:* I had not noticed that. Thanks for the clarification. Hm... need to think about that.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

*Spell Focus: Abjuration:* I am going to rule that the caster check for _dispel magic_ (and other spells that say "as for _dispel magic_) is functionally the "saving throw" of the spell it affects. This has no other effect on caster level checks for Spell Focus (for example, Spell Focus: Abjuration will not add +2 to the caster level check vs spell resistance).


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

*Approved PrC: Incantatrix*

The incantatrix is a web enhancement on WotC's website. It's overpowered and wrong ... This is the modified, nerfed version.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=fr/fx20010803b

Note: A comment about my munchkin spell duellist. Apparently, I only thought it was munchkin. Even the nerfed version of this class beat it down rather rapidly. However, the class IS balanced now - I just had to fix the non-munchkin aspects of my munchkin . They are about even now, mine with core classes only. To the player who inadvertently helped me with this, thank you .

Hit Die: d4.
Prereqs:
Skills: Concentration 4 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 8 ranks, Knowledge (the planes) 8 ranks, Spellcraft 4 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will, any metamagic feat.
Spellcasting: Able to cast 3rd-level arcane spells.

Class Skills: Alchemy (Int), Concentration (Con), Craft (Int), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Knowledge (arcana) (Int), Knowledge (the planes) (Int), Profession (Wis), Scry (Int), and Spellcraft (Int).

Skill Points at Each Level: 2 + Int modifier.

Class Features
	
	



```
[color=skyblue]Table 3-6: The Incantatrix

        Base
Class   Attack   Fort   Ref    Will
Level   Bonus    Save   Save   Save   Special             Spells per
Day

1st     +0       +0     +0     +2                         +1 level
2nd     +1       +0     +0     +3     Send Away           +1 level
3rd     +1       +1     +1     +3     See, Strike Eth.    +1 level
4th     +2       +1     +1     +4     Hardy Spirit        +1 level
5th     +2       +1     +1     +4     Bonus Metamagic     +1 level
6th     +3       +2     +2     +5                         +1 level
7th     +3       +2     +2     +5     Instant Metamagic   +1 level
8th     +4       +2     +2     +6     Impr. Metamagic     +1 level
9th     +4       +3     +3     +6     Instant Metamagic   +1 level
10th    +5       +3     +3     +7     Drain Item          +1 level[/color]
```
Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Incantatrixes gain no proficiency with any weapon or armor.

Spells per Day: An incantatrix continues to study standard magic as well as pursuing studies in metamagic. Thus, when a new incantatrix level is gained, the character gains new spells per day as if she had also gained a level in a spellcasting class she belonged to before becoming an incantatrix. She does not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained (bonus metamagic or item creation feats, for example).

If a character had more than one spellcasting class before she became an incantatrix, she must decide to which class she adds each level of incantatrix for purposes of determining spells per day when she adds the new level.

School Specialization: Upon becoming an incantatrix, the character chooses to focus her studies on protective and metamagic, forsaking other types of spells. In effect, the incantatrix is a specialist in the school of Abjuration (gaining all the benefits of specializing in a school), and the incantatrix must take TWO of the opposed school choices for abjuror, using the rules on page 54 of the Player's Handbook (although an incantatrix can never choose Transmutation as an opposed school). The incantatrix can never again learn spells from that prohibited schools. She can still use the prohibited spells she knew prior to becoming an incantatrix, including using items that are activated by spell completion or spell trigger. If the incantatrix already is a wizard specialized in Abjuration, she still needs to take one more prohibited school choice. A bard or sorcerer who becomes an incantatrix must still choose prohibited schools.

Send Away (Ex): The incantatrix gains a +2 bonus to all dispel checks and caster level checks to harm, banish, or overcome the spell resistance of outsiders. This includes dispel checks to dispel a summon monster spell.

See Ethereal (Su): Once per day, an incantatrix of 3rd level or greater can see into the Ethereal Plane for a number of rounds equal to her class level. She can see ethereal creatures up to 60 feet away, although they appear gray and insubstantial (as objects on the Material Plane appear to ethereal creatures). This does not give her any additional ability to attack ethereal creatures, but she can utilize spells and effects that affect ethereal creatures (such as force effects and abjurations) normally, so she could cast a magic missile at an ethereal creature. *Note: this ability is functionally useless in Hethas' Gambit; it is included for completeness.*

Strike Ethereal (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, the incantatrix can alter her spells so they strike ethereal targets that she can see. Altering a spell in this way works similar to a sorcerer using a metamagic feat -- spells with a casting time of one action become full-round spells, and spells with a longer casting time take an extra full-round action to cast. The altered spell takes effect on the Ethereal Plane instead of the Material Plane. *Note: this ability is functionally useless in Hethas' Gambit; it is included for completeness.*

Hardy Spirit (Su): At 4th level, the incantatrix becomes immune to death effects and energy drain attacks. *Clarification: this does not provide immunity to magic items which cause a negative level while held, many of which do not use negative plane energy at all.*

Bonus Metamagic Feat: At 5th level, the incantatrix may select a bonus metamagic feat.

Instant Metamagic (Su): Once per day, the 7th-level incantatrix can use a single metamagic effect of any metamagic feat she knows on a spell without preparing it beforehand or increasing its casting time. The spell works as if prepared with the metamagic feat except it uses the same spell slot. This can only be used to enhance an Abjuration or Transmutation spell. A 9th-level incantatrix can use this power twice per day.

Improved Metamagic (Su): At 8th level, the incantatrix has mastered metamagic to such an extent that whenever she uses a metamagic feat, the feat's level increase upon a spell is reduced by one (this can't reduce an increase to less than one level, or less than zero levels if the increase is already +0). For example, an incantatrix wizard could prepare a quickened fireball as a 6th-level spell instead of a 7th-level spell. This can never be used to lower a spell slot by more than one level.

Drain Item (Sp): An incantatrix of 10th level can drain a charge from a charged magic item, using the magic to heal herself. If the item drained is a staff, the spell level is that of the lowest-level spell that uses a single charge. She gains 1d6 hit points per spell level of the charge drained. If the incantatrix has reached her maximum hit points, any additional hit points acquired are temporary hit points (maximum +20) that disappear after 10 minutes. A creature gets to make a Will save (DC 10) to prevent one of its held or carried items from being drained.


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## Number47 (Mar 19, 2003)

Am I reading this wrong, or is Instant Metamagic great for a wizard and sucky for a sorceror?


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## Jeremy (Mar 19, 2003)

LOL!  Dammit!  I submitted that as my first character idea but was shot down because it was Magic of Faerun.  Where is it on the website?  Where is it as a webenhancement, I want to see this...


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Wizards are better at metamagick than sorcerers to begin with; this just keeps that relationship the same.

However, it does seem to do a bit more than that, doesn't it? The wizard gains two things (spontaneous metamagic, and 0-level metamagic) while the sorcerer gains only one (reduced time for spontaneous magic).

Eh. It's not that big a balance point, and it's only once or twice a day, so I'll fix it so they both get instant, spontaneous, 0-level metamagic.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Jeremy: Added the link to the web page at the top of the PrC.


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## Jeremy (Mar 19, 2003)

*mutters about wanting to post the archmage class to a website somewhere to get it approved too*



Kudos to the clever monkey who sniffed that one out to get some non OGL kick ass material into the game.  Now if only we could get some other FR stuff.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *mutters about wanting to post the archmage class to a website somewhere to get it approved too*



Well, get WotC to release it as a web enhancement, and I'll nerf that for you, too  .

As a side note, I was looking through Mongoose's Ultimate Prestige Classes book last night. If anyone has it, be forewarned, almost ANYTHING in there is going to be nerfed before I'll approve it. Why someone would design PrCs by taking a core class and only adding abilities, I don't understand - PrCs should be powerful, yes, but there needs to be some sacrifice too!

Well, actually, I guess they're just following the FR example .


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## Jeremy (Mar 19, 2003)

You like the Scion in the Priest section?  Love that one.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

*Plans for Deadline*

My plan is to cut off OGL material at midnight this Friday (two days). I'm getting a lot of stuff, and I need to get it sorted so y'all can finalize your characters. Over the weekend, I will then sort and put together the website with everything you can use available, as well as the collected nerfs, clarifications, etc.

You will then have until the NEXT Friday to get me your finished characters, and I will spend that weekend combing your characters for Dire Lurking Evil, and warning you if I see anything that might not work the way you expect it to.

Once I have your characters approved... game on!


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

More unwanted insight into the mind of the referee... 

I'm not sure how long it usually takes to get a Game of Death rolling. From the ones I've seen, it takes less than a week (not counting the silent, unmourned hours lost by the referee considering it ahead of time). And they are pretty fun, even with that short startup period...

Hethas' Gambit, on the other hand, is taking a week just to establish the ground rules, and another (possibly less than) week to build characters... and that also isn't counting the time I spent beforehand working out what approach I wanted to take, and going through clockworkjoe's to make sure I had my stuff together.

Is it worth it? I think so.

Part of the reason it's taking so long is because I'm doing everything in an open forum, taking the time to write little notes about why I made such-n-such decision, taking in comments, etc. If I was just yay-or-naying my way through a stack of characters, this would probably take considerably less time, but I think providing access to my reasoning and methods is valuable.

Another part of the reason it's taking so long is because of my insistence on a level playing field. I don't care who's character is stronger, I just want a single reference, the core books + the _Hethas' Gambit Sourcebook of OGL Crunch_, that everyone can use to build their characters, and know without doubt that there isn't another book out there with some bit o' cheese in it that no one knows about and can't prepare for. Again, I think that's valuable, even when it gives me a lot of work.

And, to a point, all of the work above is non-repeating. Once I have the Hethas' source book, I have it. I may add bits and pieces, or refine a rule based on midgame rulings, but the bulk will be there already .

Also, and I'm operating on pure theory here, I think that the work now will reduce the mid-game headaches. I certainly hope so . The smoother I can get things flowing in game, the more fun it will be for ALL of us.

So anyway, I hope no one minds my rambling .


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## Number47 (Mar 19, 2003)

Actually, I don't think this is taking any longer to start up than any other Game of Death I've been involved in.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Jeremy: Oh yeah, I LOVE the Scion.

Number47: Really? Okay, in that case, I ROCK.


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## JDragon (Mar 19, 2003)

Seasong,

Did you get my email regarding Quickdraw and the basic idea for my character? (email was sent mid-day yesterday from an AOL account) I havn't seen a response so I wasn't sure.

Thanks

JDragon


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## cool hand luke (Mar 19, 2003)

*cohorts?*

if we kill a player, what happens to the cohort?

do we get points for wasting cohorts?


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

JDragon said:
			
		

> Did you get my email regarding Quickdraw and the basic idea for my character? (email was sent mid-day yesterday from an AOL account) I havn't seen a response so I wasn't sure.



Shoot, I missed it. I'm looking at it now.







> _Originally posted by cool hand luke_
> if we kill a player, what happens to the cohort?
> 
> do we get points for wasting cohorts?



Ooo, good questions .

I'll write this into the formal point rules, but essentially:

1) The cohort continues to fight on. If the cohort kills someone (whether the PC is dead or alive), the player gets the points.

2) Killing a cohort is a 'kill'. However, cohorts are across-the-board weaker than players, so I need to decide on a smaller number of points for killing a cohort; maybe 2 points for a cohort, 1 point for an animal companion (0 points for wasting a familiar - but it's still a good tactic).

3) You get 0 points for killing creatures summoned with spells.

4) Cohorts count towards the 2:1 odds when fighting. Thus, if a PC and her cohort are fighting a single PC, that single PC will be getting points for each round of survival.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 19, 2003)

*more cohorts*

can cohorts "appear" anywhere on the map, or do they have to start with the PC?


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

They (and all companions) must appear within 5 feet of the PC. They can move anywhere they want after that.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 19, 2003)

Will other players know whether they are attacking a cohort or a PC? I can see all kinds of tactical wranglings going on if every player is blind to the status of the enemy they are currently combating (PC or Cohort).


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Yes. Cohorts will start out clearly identified. Whether, in the haze of battle, you continue to remember or know who's important and who isn't, is something else entirely.


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## Number47 (Mar 19, 2003)

Enter Xiao Fung:

Xiao Fung is a man of middle years and yellow complexion. His hair is long and black, just beginning to show streaks of white, tied into a braid and affixed at the top with an ornament of green stone. He has no beard, but his moustache is grown long. He carries little with him, at least that can be seen. His garments are of black silk, looking a bit like baggy pajamas, with fabric buttons. Overall, Xiao Fung looks like a slight man, average height. His gaze is steely and harsh.

With him are his two sons, Xiao Lung, the elder, and Xiao Hu, the youngest. They are dressed in rough tan trousers and thin shirts. Xiao Lung, a slight young man of about twenty, carries with him a greatsword and bow and arrow, although he seems too small to use them. Xiao Hu, little more than a lad, says nothing and does not meet the eyes of anybody.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Okay, someone has asked me for a ruling on Big Frickin' Rocks and High Places. Since the ruling I wrote at the very beginning was not very clear, I will endeavor to make it more clear here. I have also added a slight rules modification to falling damage, which I don't think anyone will find disagreeable.

*Buying Rocks*

Rocks cost 1 GP per 8 lbs of weight. I based this on costs for iron pots, which is a bit expensive for rock, but what the heck.

*Falling Damage*

A 200 lb rock does 1d6 damage per 10 feet it falls. For each halving of weight, it requires +10 feet to do the same damage. For example, a 100 lb rock does 1d6 damage per 20 feet it falls. Each doubling of weight adds +1d6 damage per 10 feet fallen. For example, a 400 lb rock does 2d6 damage per 10 feet it falls.

ALWAYS round weight down. A 199 lb rock is treated the same as a 100 lb rock.

Damage is maxed out after 200 feet, regardless of weight. For extremely un-aerodynamic objects such as trees in full bloom or hollow spheres, damage is maxed out after 100 feet, regardless of weight.

As an example, a 3,200 lb rock, dropped 200 feet, would do 100d6 damage. That is more than enough to ruin almost anyone's day.

Soft objects (flesh, rubber) does 1/4th damage, and allows a Fortitude save for 1/2 damage.

*Targetting*

Setting up the rock to fall and then dropping it is a standard action. If the fall is less than 100 feet, the attack is resolved during your action. A rock which is classed as Large-size or smaller requires a to hit roll against the target's AC. If they don't know you are there, you are considered to be flanking, with the usual penalties to their AC. A rock which is classed as Huge-size or larger targets a SQUARE, which as AC 4.

The range increment for dropping a rock is 50 feet, and this will affect your to hit roll.

If a rock is dropped more than 100 feet, the to hit roll is handled on your initiative on the NEXT ROUND. If the target has completely left the square you were targetting, you automatically miss. If a new target has stepped into the square, you get to roll against them, instead.

*Spots & Saves*

You get a spot check to notice a rock falling from more than 30 feet overhead. You get this spot check _on the same round that the to hit roll is made_. By weight, the DCs for this spot check are:

8 lbs - DC 12 (tiny)
60 lbs - DC 11 (small)
450 lbs - DC 10 (medium-sized by volume)
3,600 lbs - DC 9 (large)
28,800 lbs - DC 8 (huge, area effect 5 ft x 5 ft)
230,000 lbs - DC 6 (gargantuan, area effect 10 ft x 10 ft*)
2 million lbs - DC 2 (collossal, area effect 20 ft x 20 ft*)

Round all weights DOWN for purposes of size. A 25,000 lb rock is "large". If you fail this ridiculously easy spot check, you will take damage as appropriate for what was dropped on you.

_*Note that gargantuan rocks divide their weight by 4, and collossal rocks divide their weight by 16, for purposes of damage done to any individual square._

If you succeed on the spot check, you are allowed a Reflex save. This is at DC is 15 for huge-size rocks or smaller, DC 20 for gargantuan rocks, DC 25 for collossal rocks. A successful Reflex save negates all damage, and moves you a number of squares in a random direction until you are out from under the rock.

*Invisible Rocks?*

Dust of disappearance will be blown off the stone by the wind of falling. Normal invisibility will break upon attack (which happens as soon as you drop it) and improved invisibility can not be cast on objects.

I will apply similarly harsh logic to all similar attempts to get around the spot check.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Number47: Keep in mind that you will be able to modify your character after I finalize the Big List o' Stuff this weekend.


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## Starman (Mar 19, 2003)

I'm going to have to withdraw, seasong. School and personal things are getting a bit hectic now and I don't think I'm going to have time to do this. Sorry.

Starman


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## Number47 (Mar 19, 2003)

I'm pretty sure the general physical description won't change, though. Just trying to keep things interesting. There is some chance that Xiao Lung might not have those weapons, or Xiao Hu (who I haven't actually worked on at all), might appear different.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 19, 2003)

*scared*

actually, he was just scared of the idea of a 2 million pound rock falling on him

What is this, some weird dropper prestige class?


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## Jeremy (Mar 19, 2003)

More likely a shrink item happy mage.  

Mad bomber elaborating on the falling tree idea.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Starman: Okay, no worries. I'm sorry to see you go, though.

2,000,000 lb rock: That would cost 250,000 GP. At most, you will face an 800,000 lb rock (which will do 10d6 per 10 ft per square, or 200d6 from 200 ft). That's nothing to be afraid of .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 19, 2003)

i pictured some mad gnome flying over in something that looks like the dnd equivalent of a c-130 and pushing tanks sized rocks out the back.


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Forgot to mention: If someone DOES drop a big frickin' rock, it's only going to work once. Hethas will nerf it after that, probably with divine _featherfall_ or something.

If it misses, of course, it won't get nerfed.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 19, 2003)

nerf THAT rock, or any and all falling rocks?


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## Saepiroth (Mar 19, 2003)

*Re: scared*



			
				cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *actually, he was just scared of the idea of a 2 million pound rock falling on him
> 
> What is this, some weird dropper prestige class? *






















Archmagus Adept of Quall


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Any rock doing more than 3d6 damage.


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## Tisvon (Mar 19, 2003)

The rock idea was mine, btw. And I _think_ that I've found a way to get rid of the spot check.

MWAHAHAHHAHAHA!


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## Number47 (Mar 19, 2003)

Heck, I can think of at least 3 ways.


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## JDragon (Mar 19, 2003)

More ?'s on starting location stuff.

Since you are letting us have one prep round and telling you where we want to start... 

Does that mean our characters will have a basic understanding of the arena as it will be at the begining when we do our prep round?

JDragon


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

Arena Conditions:
So far today is dry and cool in the mid 60s, with a faint but noticeable southward breeze and 0% chance of precipitation in the next 6 seconds. Visibility is 500 feet, and the sun is bright! The ground is covered in light grass cover, and the lake is a clear crystal blue with about thirty feet of visibility.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Heck, I can think of at least 3 ways. *




and they'll sure last for a while!


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## seasong (Mar 19, 2003)

*Updated & Corrected Ruling*

I can find no rule anywhere that indicates that thrown weapons, specifically, do not get multiple attacks if the person doing the attacking has multiple attacks and uses the full attack combat action.

The only rule that would affect this AT ALL is the fact that you have to draw the weapon in order to throw it. Since this clearly does not impact archers, I am instituting the following ruling for small weapons:

Small throwing weapons can be hung in bandoliers, slings, or quivers (depending on their design) for easy grab-n-throw. This allows you to use your full attacks per round, as dictated by BAB, just like arrows for a bow. This has no impact on your ability to pull the weapon out in a grip firm enough to be suitable for melee combat - for that, take the Quick Draw feat.

Medium throwing weapons can be similarly hung, but still take a move equivalent action to draw, as a firm grip is required to throw them. You may take the Quick Draw feat to overcome this, allowing you your normal attacks per round.

Note: Where I say Small, read, "one size smaller than yourself", and where I say Medium, read, "any weapon you could concievably Quick Draw for melee".


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

huh, i thought that's what bandoleers were for the whole time. 


..oh well, you have to rule them in anyway, because they're out of FRCS or something...


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

*OGL sources*

does anyone know of a good OGL source for information on weapons?


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

You mean weapons I'll allow?

Heh. Dunno. What are you looking for? Here's one that was just approved (halfway between a javelin and a dart).

*Light javelin*
Small, Simple Weapon
1 GP, 1 lb
1d4 (P), x2 crit, range increment 25 ft
Note: When buying enhancements for weapons, 5 of these count as one weapon (in the same manner that 50 arrows count as one weapon). However, as with arrows, a successful hit destroys the item and on a miss there is a 50% chance of it being destroyed.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

looking for polearms you will allow in case your pending judgement on my weapon question toasts  me.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 20, 2003)

CoolHand you might try bastion press' arms and armor has some pretty good stuff in it, pending Seasongs approval


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Cool hand luke, I thought I'd already sent you an answer... please send me a repeat of the questions you don't have answers to!


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

sea song, 
As of the time when I left work, you had given me an "i'll look at it" response.  If you answered via email since then, I haven't seen it, (can't access work email at home).

if you want, you can either

1.  do nothing, I'll see it in the morning.

2.  email it to ljalbert@peoplepc.com

3.  repost it here.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

also, are you going to let him do that rock trick during the prep round?


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Sent it to your home e-mail.

Regarding falling rocks: That depends on what rock trick you are referring to. If he wants to drop a rock on himself during the prep round, I will certainly allow it.

If he wants to get a rock ready to drop during the prep round, and he can do it in 6 seconds, sure, that's fine too.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

thanks seasong.  Appreciate it.


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

Can you please rule on how you are changing Haste? If you recall, it was a little fuzzy concerning magic items.


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Scrolls are subject to the same limit of spells cast per round as normal spell casting. Everything I can find on the matter of how scrolls work indicate that they function identically to casting a spell.

Haste will not allow you to get around that limitation on the magical energies of spell casting.

Wands and staffs get around this limitation, because the wand or staff casts the spell for you - your action is merely to tell it to do so.

Most items will function like wands and staffs in this regard - you tell the item what to do, and it does it for you. Scrolls seem to be the only glaring exception.

If you have a specific item you need clarified on, e-mail me. Now that I've read through the rules, I should be able to give quick answers .


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

Nope. That answers it. I think the technical way you can answer it is, "spells or spell completion magic items". Wands and staves are spell trigger and potions are use activated.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 20, 2003)

Hrm, can you have a scroll that stores a spell that's quickened with the metamagick feat and use it as a free action?  Or is it still considered a standard action. (Sorry if you answered this already)

Just chiming in, my character is actually nearly completed.


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

After looking at the falling rock trick, I've decided not to try it after all. (Too much cost for too little effect)

My character is almost done as well.


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 20, 2003)

I assume we are using Clockwork's Game of Death linked on the first post for character creation, because I could not find any solid rules on points, or what special bonuses your character gets etc.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

DM with a vengence said:
			
		

> *I assume we are using Clockwork's Game of Death linked on the first post for character creation, because I could not find any solid rules on points, or what special bonuses your character gets etc. *



 we're doin' 36 point buy, and i don't think this game is using "Perks".


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

That's 36 points according to the costs laid out in this thread, which is different than the DMG. All the guidelines are in the first page, if you look for them.


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Also... You don't have to get a completed character to me by this Friday - just what stuff you want approved, and what (if any) obscure, vague rules you want rulings on. Friday is the "cut off" for finalizing the character creation rules, not characters.

Attributes: from page 1 of this thread, 36 points, purchased as follows:
3: -5 pts
4: -4 pts
5: -3 pts
6: -2 pts
7: -1 pts
8: 0 pts
9: 1 pts
10: 2 pts
11: 3 pts
12: 4 pts
13: 6 pts
14: 8 pts
15: 10 pts
16: 12 pts
17: 15 pts
18: 18 pts


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Note: This isn't using Clockworkjoe's rules at all! I just gave a link at the beginning to show what a Game of Death was . All of the rules for character creation are in this thread (and the BIG ones are on the first page of the thread).

*Sollir Furryfoot:* Quicken has no impact on how much time it takes to read a scroll.

*Tisvon:* It's a neat idea, and in a campaign I would let you get away with it, but this arena is more specialized than a campaign, and everyone who might get killed wants to either (a) not get killed, (b) get killed in a way that they felt they had at least a _slim_ chance, or (c) see the person what killed them irresistably get nerfed, nerfed, nerfed .

So yeah, I'm running D&D-without-most-irresistable-events, for the most part, and resistance makes falling rocks low-efficiency in the bang-for-buck dept.


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Tisvon: It's a neat idea, and in a campaign I would let you get away with it, but this arena is more specialized than a campaign, and everyone who might get killed wants to either (a) not get killed, (b) get killed in a way that they felt they had at least a slim chance, or (c) see the person what killed them irresistably get nerfed, nerfed, nerfed .
> 
> So yeah, I'm running D&D-without-most-irresistable-events, for the most part, and resistance makes falling rocks low-efficiency in the bang-for-buck dept. *




It _is_ a cool idea, and given more favorable rules for it, it would have been quite good. (For instance, if it had been ruled as a five-foot area effect, and thus no reflex save, it would have been fairly unstoppable.) 

Also, do I get bonus points for using core books only, and _no_ prestege classes?


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

I've lost my access to home e-mail from work, so anything you e-mail me won't get looked at until this evening.

*More Favorable Rules*

Even 20 ft radius fireballs allow reflex saves, and at a lower DC than the one I gave . I'm pretty confident that the Reflex save is well within the realm of reason, particularly given the DMG's advice on when to use Reflex saves, and the effects of area-effect spells.

I could have made it "save for half", but that wouldn't make this tactic work better - it would have just made sure that everyone built Rogue/multiclass characters with boosted Reflex saves. That wouldn't be any fun.

The real issue is the time it takes to fall from great heights (hitting someone who is moving from 100 ft up with an object moving at an average of 50 ft per second at the fastest, at all, is a pretty favorable ruling if you ask me), and the spot check.

Without a spot check, this becomes a real killer of a tactic. The problem is, there _should_ be a spot check. Maybe not quite as easy as I made it, but keep in mind that this is also an arena where everyone is constantly looking around them, is prepared for fliers, etc.

And without the spot check, again, I would just end up with a ton of Rogue/multiclass characters who ask me what the penalty is for keeping an eye on the sky (-2, as best as I can ascertain from the rules). And with people keeping an eye on the sky, that stone isn't going to hit ANYONE.

So the generic spot check allows a middle ground.

And then, of course, there's the invisibility - Those nixes were strictly by previously established rules (normal invisibility includes objects in its target list; improved invis does not; and dust of disappearance & wind was established way at the beginning of this thread).

In all, I didn't nerf this at all - there aren't any rules for targetting with big rocks from high up, and I wrote rules that favored an interesting fight, and made sense.

I did nerf the damage, but when you can get 100d6+ out of the _nerfed_ damage, I don't think anyone should have a problem with that .


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

Just to make it clear, I'm not complaining, and, in fact, I pretty much agree with your rulings. I have a minor gripe, but since I'm not using the big- bad- rock tactic, it's a moot point.


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Okay .


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 20, 2003)

Ok I definitely want to play, and I will only use stuff in the SRD and this thread.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

*over under*

Ok, maybe a little premature, but I'm setting the over/under for rounds my character will survive at 4.

that's 1 more than I lasted the last time I tried this.


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

*Clockworkjoe:* Welcome in. Since we had a player drop already, this works out nicely .

Note to others: clockworkjoe gets in cuz he's refereeing the last one. I am still maxed out on the number of players I think I can handle.

*Cool hand luke:* Aw, you might make it 5. Y'all are just lucky I'm not allowed to play. You'd last according to which round I decided you needed to die (well, maybe not if someone ELSE was refereeing, but if I was refereeing me, heck yeah).


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

Well, actually, I'm planning on you dying Round 1. If you give a description of your character,  though, I'll be able to tell better.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

I'm the elf with the bow.


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

Hmm. Might be tricky. You'll probably get initiative over me. Okay, I'll set my prediction for you to be axed Round 6.


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

Ok, I've sent my character in.


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Tisvon, I'll take a look at it as soon as I get home and have access to my e-mail again.

cool hand luke, the image I got was: "Good. Bad. I'm the elf with the bow."


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

So what's the story with losing e-mail access at work? Did The Man come down on you?


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Naw. War/virus concerns = no "outside" e-mail for an "indeterminate" period of time. Basically any web page that looks like a web-based e-mail script is blocked from inside our server. I could probably get around it, but that WOULD get me in trouble.

I could also set up my home e-mail to forward to my work e-mail, but I really, really prefer not to use my work e-mail for anything.


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

Ok, I've sent my character in.


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

Tisvon: What, again?


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Tisvon: What, again?  *



 dollars to doughnuts, he's using a macintosh and he just hit "back" past the form submission to submit a post.


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * dollars to doughnuts, he's using a macintosh and he just hit "back" past the form submission to submit a post. *




That would be correct.


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

C'mon, isn't anyone else going to post a general description of their PC. I want to talk smack in-character here, but I got nobody to smack around.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

Tisvon said:
			
		

> *That would be correct. *



 i know my macs... that's why i hate 'em 


			
				Number47 said:
			
		

> *C'mon, isn't anyone else going to post a general description of their PC. I want to talk smack in-character here, but I got nobody to smack around. *



 Cholestus the Shredder = insane chain weilder with a face that looks like he shaves with a cheese grater. It's shaping up to be my character in clockwork's game, but _on crack_.


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

Just as effective as Zalilad, I hope.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Just as effective as Zalilad, I hope. *



 YOU WILL BE GRATED

GRATED WITH _RAZORS_


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## seasong (Mar 20, 2003)

So, after talking with our tech center, it looks like the e-mail situation is not going to change anytime soon. I am considering other options for next week. If I can't work out something that lets me go through the various character-building e-mails, it may take me longer than the expected week to give each character the attention and care it deserves.

I won't give LESS attention and care, so that might mean a longer windup period.

Anyway, my apologies. I'll do my best to get things moving quickly despite this setback.


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## Number47 (Mar 20, 2003)

Why not use a web-based, yahoo-type thing?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 20, 2003)

Yes, I recall macbrea had a website where he mantained all the characters, but each had a seperate page so other players couldn't cheat (well, hopefully they didn't )


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

Quick question; are the ability bonuses from the Draconic Might potion _Enhancement_ bonuses?


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## Tisvon (Mar 20, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *Quick question; are the ability bonuses from the Draconic Might potion Enhancement bonuses? *




If they aren't, I'm gonna have to do a re-write of Bax.

EDIT: who's Bax? Well, you'll find out.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 20, 2003)

*?*

i'm clueless, what's an enhancement bonus?


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## Jeremy (Mar 20, 2003)

Oi.  I'm losing all my trade secrets.  We should do a poll after generation is closed for how many people altered their characters to add an item or class or counter the same that they saw posted.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 20, 2003)

it's just the type of bonus. i want to make sure they don't stack with certain things; I'm deciding on some "wonderous items" right now.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 20, 2003)

Heh, don't worry Jeremy, my character will stay the same


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2003)

Heh.  No worries.  All's fair.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Draconic Might functions in the same manner as other potions of its ilk - that is, it IS an enhancement bonus, same as a potion of charisma, bull's strength, etc.

If I forgot to write that before, I'm writing it now!

And people who are copying feats that are posted as approved are missing out on the BEST strategy: asking me about other feats that will feat their characters better.

Web-based: I have an ezBoard account, but giving each player their own forum would be kind of painful, and you can't password lock something at less than the forum level. I might do it anyway, but only as a last resort.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

even If I posted my characters description, you could scarcely expect an elf lord to do something as base as "talk smack" with mere humans.


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2003)

I'd post mine, but I'm still throwing out stuff for seasong to nerf or negate because I keep having ideas.  Is that deadline open until midnight?


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

I know, I keep having "what if's"

I'm getting jitters, keep contemplating totally changing my concept to something I'm more familiar with.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 21, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *edited out comments*



 i guess it _wasn't_ an unnamed bonus, huh?


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## Number47 (Mar 21, 2003)

It was only unnamed until Seasong named it.

By the way, since you somewhat nerfed Stoneskin, if I recall, setting it from 10/+5 to 5/—, would you mind nixing the expensive spell component cost?


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

which reminds me, the last time I played on of these, it was never CLEARLY stated that spell components had to be purchased, and one player spent to much on other things to be able to purchase them, but this wasn't discovered until afterwards.  So can we get a concrete ruling right now?

of course, if you people woudn't create pansy spellcasters, this wouldn't be a problem.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

*Stoneskin:* At 15th level, you are unlikely to be facing less than +5 weapons and magical attacks for the most part. That means that the change from /+5 to /- is directly advantageous to you versus melee types - the equivalent of about 25-50 extra hit points over the course of a mere 5-10 hits.

And 250 GP is not that expensive for a man of your wealth and taste. Why, tis a mere pittance, less than a hundredth of your worth!

*Spell Components:* If it lists a cost, you have to buy it to cast it. I do not require anyone to purchase bat guano or similar cheap and costless components, however.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Note: the deadline is midnight on FRIDAY night. Tonight is not the deadline. Tomorrow night is.

I'm not sure how clear I was, so I just thought I'd make it clear.

Yes, midnight. I plan on awaking early Saturday morning, deleting all OGL requests that arrived even a minute after midnight, and then slowly working through everything else. I shall derive a great deal of personal pleasure from the deleting part - that shall keep me going for the rest of it .


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

*Clarification on Lion's Charge*

Lion's Charge allows a full attack at the end of a charge. Only the FIRST attack gets the Charge bonus, or is considered a Charge attack for purposes of rhino's hide, etc.

If you have two-weapon fighting, one attack from each hand is considered a charge. A dual weapon does not gain this benefit.

If you have multiple limbs and get an extra attack with each of them (such as a lion), the extra attacks are counted as part of the charge.

A monk with flurry of blows counts the first bonus attack as part of the charge.

Similar logic can be applied to other situations - send me an e-mail if you need something specific answered.


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * i guess it wasn't an unnamed bonus, huh?  *




It is in the book I read it in *nerf boff* I mean, it's an enhancement bonus. 



I hope you all are feeling my pain, cause I'm so nerfed I'm fuzzy.    But I still got ideas.  And I got more books to plunder.


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## Number47 (Mar 21, 2003)

Cheap components are supposed to be covered under the 5gp item Spell Component Pouch.

By the way, my character has more than enough money to afford Stoneskin costs. My secondary cohort, however, is a poor little bastard. I suppose my primary character could just _give_ him some money or spell components, but what lessen would that teach. No, you have to get by on your own. You can't always just ask your old man for spell components because you were too _lazy_ to get them yourself.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Yeah, Jeremy's going to have a long list of "thank yous" from me when this is done .

Number47: Well, the DM's not going to pay for it, either .


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 21, 2003)

A man of indeterminate age with a large beard and greenish robes wanders in out of the wilderness, followed by 5 large bears and an elephant.  

"Hail, friends.  I am Hagbard the Chartreuse, a wizard of pussiant might.  I advise you not to trifle with me, because as my colleague Gandalf the Gray says, "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they a subtle and have a long memory.  And in my case, if you annoy me, MR. STAMPY WILL POUND YOUR SPINAL CORD INTO THE GROUND!!!!!, isn't that right Mr. Stampy?  I think that now that we understand each other, we'll get along just fine.  So, been anywhere interesting lately?"


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Again, I won't have e-mail access today, and I have a game tonight, so just send me any last stuff you want approved so I can work on it over the weekend.

Also, keep in mind that once I've finalized everything, you will be allowed to edit your characters.

*Various Things As I Go Through E-Mails*

*Improved Power Attack (general feat, fighter feat)*
You can control the amount of power you put behind each of your strikes.
Prerequisite: Str 15+, Power Attack, Base attack bonus +3 or higher
Benefit: You can apply Power Attack to a single attack, instead of all attacks in a single round.

*Weird Disarming Gray Area:* STR is the default for any melee issue, however, if they have taken the feat weapon finesse for a weapon, they get the full benefit of that feat for this combat action as well. So... if you attempt to disarm someone who has weapon finesse with their weapon, they can resist it with DEX.

Since an archer will not be resisting your attack with his missiles, and is unlikely to have taken weapon finesse with his bow for melee, that will be a STR contest. However, the archer WILL get the +4 for two hands.

Note: in the SRD, disarming specifies that you must be adjacent to your foe. In the PHB, it does not. I am going with the PHB in this and other issues.

*Ring of Counterspells:* This can be reloaded from wands and scrolls. Note that a ring of counterspells starts with a spell in it. This can be a spell you do not know.

*Polymorph:* Does not grant the feats of the creature.

*Tenser's Transformation:* This spell normally gives you a cleric's BAB (3/4), but they worded it very badly. The spell now changes the BAB you get from caster levels to the cleric's BAB progression.

*Hotsuma Shroud:* This flowing red scarf is 10 feet long and serves to confuse the movements of it's wearer.  A skilled ninja becomes little more than a shadow when protected by its power.  The wearer can use nondetection and improved invisibility both once per day.
Caster Level: 15th; Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, nondetection, improved invisibility, 8 ranks in hide; Market Price: 31,000 gp; Weight: ---.

*Wildcasting (special feat)*
You have the ability to manipulate the forces of magic while wild shaping.
Prerequisite: The supernatural ability to shapeshift
Benefit: Each time this feat is chosen, an animal form and type of spell component (usually verbal or somatic) must be selected. You may cast your druidic spells normally when wildshaped into this selected animal form (and *only* into this form) for spells requiring that component. For example, you could take this feat twice and cast spells with verbal and somatic components. The type of component you can manage while in the specific animal form must be chosen when you take the feat. The animal form must still make noise and/or movements if required by the spell; any required material components or focuses must be present at the time of casting, or in your possession (i.e. transformed when you shapeshifted).
Normal: You may not cast spells in animal form without exceptional ircumstances, or the use of Metamagic Feats, such as Still Spell and Silent Spell.
Special: This feat may be taken multiple times; each time, a new animal form must be selected.
Notes: The prerequisite includes the druidic ability of wildshape, as well as those creatures that can change their shape naturally (lycanthropes, etc.). It does not include any form of polymorph or shapeshift spell.
WILDCASTING Copyright 2002, Rick Coen
Balance: 4.16 (Purp 4.80, Pow 4.00, Port 4.40, Comp 4.20, Rule 3.40)

*Ring of Animal Friendship:* This ring acts as if cast by a 6th level druid. For non-adventurers, it allows up to 12 HD of animals to be befriended; for adventurers, it allows 6 HD. For purposes of weird situations, the ring is treated as a 6th level druid who hangs out on your finger - the animals are friends with the ring, not you, and if you lose the ring, you lose the animals.

Temporarily increased HD have no impact on your friendship with the animal.

Animal friendship can only befriend the animals in the back of the MM I. No legendary animals, no dire animals, no half-celestial animals... 

*Way of the Scorpion (general feat)*
You are a strategic mastermind.
Prereq: INT 13+.
Benefit: You may add your INT modifier to intiative _instead of_ your DEX modifier.

*Scorpion Techniques (general feat)*
Prereq: INT 13+, Way of the Scorpion, BAB +2 or higher.
Benefit: You gain +1d6 sneak attack damage. This stacks with the sneak attack special ability.
Special: You may take this more than once, and it stacks. However, I will not allow a total sneak attack bonus that is HIGHER than that of a 20th level rogue.

*Willflower (spell) and Sound Mind (spell):* These are in Green Ronin's _Pocket Grimoire Arcane_. They are basically identical to Bull's Strength, but Willflower adds to CHA instead, and Sound Mind adds to INT instead.

*Ring of Resistance?* Yes. As long as an location item (such as necklaces, cloaks, rings) takes up SOME location, I'm not too harsh on which location it takes up. This will not impact the ability of others to identify the item, however - for example, a helm of brilliance altered to a cloak of brilliance will be just as visible as either.

*BANNED*

Okay, I'm going to go back through and make sure I didn't allow anything of the sort anywhere, but essentially: the 30 foot point blank range can not be extended. The point blank range is designed with normal movement rates in mind, and forces rogues to be more careful when sneak attacking. Anything that allows sneak attacks over greater distances will not be allowed - I don't want 12 rogue characters, I want variety and strategies.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

*LAST REMINDER*

Midnight tonight is the deadline for STUFF. If there is a feat, magic item, spell, weapon, prestige class, or similar thing that you want approved, it must arrive in my inbox (or on this board) by midnight, Central Standard Time. If you are not sure what time that is for your local area, this post is being made at 8:18am (so 15 hours, 42 minutes from now).

This is NOT a deadline for characters. You will continue to be able to polish, refine, alter and finalize your characters over the coming week.


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2003)

Eek.  We have to send in every OGL spell we are considering for approval too?  That's a lot of work...

-------

Jeremy's character's physical description is ever changing as race, class, and gear continually shift from one form to the next as he tries to make up his mind.  Neon Orange fuzz all over him is the only consistant visual queue.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Yup. However, I have the _Pocket Grimoire Arcane_, which has a lot of OGL spells in it. If you send me a list of names, I'll check the ones that are in there, and you will only need to send me the details on the ones I DON'T have.


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2003)

Phew.  That makes it easier.

Is that like an Ultimate Feats book but for spells?  (ie they got a bunch of spells from themselves and other publishes, switched the names as neccesary, and published it all in one book)


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Yeah, but only for bards, assassins, and wiz/sor (and maybe one other - I'm forgetting). The _Pocket Grimoire Divine_ has everyone else. I actually have both, but I've found the Arcane book to be more generally useful in terms of volume of spells available.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 21, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Ring of Resistance? Yes. As long as an location item (such as necklaces, cloaks, rings) takes up SOME location, I'm not too harsh on which location it takes up. This will not impact the ability of others to identify the item, however - for example, a helm of brilliance altered to a cloak of brilliance will be just as visible as either. *



 I'm resisting the urge to ask about a Belt of Tumbling, simply because they're _so damn cheesy_.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

have you come up with the format you want our characters submitted yet?


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## Number47 (Mar 21, 2003)

*Xiao Fung –* Look, my sons, at what sport the gods choose for us today. It is clear will of the gods that they choose to show us no challenge whatsoever. You see now that man? He is obviously given over to chaos. Nothing chaotic can resist an ordered will. He will die. Look now, how he even believes as does you, Xiao Lung, that paltry metal trinkets have may be useful to one in battle.

*Xiao Lung –* Father, if you will only see what I can do with these...

*Xiao Fung –* You will have your chance. You may either demonstrate yourself on the field of battle or fight me now, if you think you are man enough.

*Xiao Lung –* Yes, Father. I'm sorry, father.

*Xiao Fung –* Now here is another man that is doomed to die. He who keeps company of beasts is doomed to die like one. It does not portray an ordered will.

*Xiao Lung –* Yes, Father.

*Xiao Fung –* Now here, pay attention, Lung and Hu. That there is an Elf. He shall be of no great consequence. Many have awed at their grace and skill with bow. That is just a ruse. He is fragile, weak and hides behind his crude wood weapons. We must take care not to let him act upon us before we act upon him. We strike him first, he is dead.

*Xiao Lung –* May I have the honor of killing the Elf, Father?

*Xiao Fung –* Foolish son. We do not choose our target before we see the battlefield. Patience, my son. You obey me and keep your brother Hu in line and we shall all see glory.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

The elf glances over.  disdainfully looking down his nose.  "for your insolence puny man, you shall see you sons filled with my arrows, there worthless blood staining the grass, before I will grant you the reprieve of death.  Boys, know now that your father has sealed your doom."


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> have you come up with the format you want our characters submitted yet?



Nope. I've got some basic requirements, though:

STR xx (xx base, +xx racial, +xx level, +xx by item/spell)
DEX etc.

Level/Class:
1: fighter
2: fighter
3: fighter
etc.

HP: xx (HD, +xx CON)

BAB +xx/+xx-5/etc.
- weapon A: +xx (+xx weapon focus, +xx STR/DEX, +xx magic, etc.)
- weapon B: etc.

AC xx (10 base, +xx size, +xx DEX, +xx racial natural armor, +xx armor, +xx item/spell)
Flatfooted: xx
Touch: xx

Feats
level 1: Feat A
human 1: Feat B
fighter 1: Feat C
fighter 2: Feat D
level 3: Feat E
fighter 4: Feat F
level 6: Feat G
fighter 6: Feat H
etc.

More as I work it out.


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## seasong (Mar 21, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Xiao Fung –* Now here, pay attention, Lung and Hu. That there is an Elf.



_For a moment, as Xiao Fung channels the South, he experiences brief disorientation. He's not sure what he said, but he hopes his sons didn't notice._


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

the beverly hillbillies monk!  i love it, not very intimidating though.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 21, 2003)

the elf continues

"the fact that you brought your own children here, surely to die, shows how base and crude a race the humans are, not even honoring the lives of there own children, willing to sacrifice them for your benefit.  I wouldn't be surprised to find some orc running through your veins.


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## Jeremy (Mar 21, 2003)

The chaotic shifting form--awaiting some decisiveness--speaks in voices that go from cultured and dignified, to brash and arrogant, to deep, loud, and with an air of savage stupidity.

"You really shouldn't judge a book b---y it's cover.  It is presumptuous and preposterous to propose to win unarmed and unaided by eld--by mojo..  ME SMASH YOU!"

Its grunts and hollering are cut off as it shifts into a shadowy form that makes no sound, which only gives way to a troll like creature that appears to have some draconic traits, and then to a full armed and armored knight mounted upon a shining steed, to a small pixie crackling with electrical energy.


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## JDragon (Mar 21, 2003)

Welcome to the SHOW!!


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## Number47 (Mar 21, 2003)

*Xiao Fung – *Of course I brought my sons here to die. If they cannot keep themselves alive, they are worthless to me. So, my son, what do we do when a puny elf taunts us?

*Xiao Lung – *We, uh, we kill him?

*Xiao Hu – **speaks without looking up* We ignore him. When taunts move us to action, our enemy controls us.

*Xiao Fung – *Yes, Hu. *whacks Xiao Lung with a bamboo rod* Pay attention, you dolt! You sink into chaos and I will kill you myself.

*Xiao Lung – *Yes, father.

***This is fun***


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## Saepiroth (Mar 21, 2003)

An unkempt, raven haired, greasy, and most of all _short_ man stands staring off into space, yelling at himself.


:The left arm reaches up and flicks the right ear:

<Right side of mouth> "WHAAAAA! STOOOOP IIIT!"

<Left side of mouth> "Heeheeheeheehee..."

:The left arm reaches up and flicks the right ear:

<Right side of mouth> "_STOOOOOOOOP IIIIIT!!!_"

<Left side of mouth> "Hee hee hee hee hee hee hee!!!"

:The left arm reaches up and flicks the right ear:

<Right side of mouth> "_*STOOOOOOOOP IIIIIT NOOOOOW DAMMIIIIIIIT!!!*_"

:The right arm swings and the man punches himself hard, square in the balls:
:The man crumples to the ground, listing hard to port as he falls. A billowing cloud of smoke pours over him as he hits the ground, obscuring the pathetic drama from view:


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 21, 2003)

"Mr. Stampy, do you see that man over there?  When we see him again, remember to CRUSH HIS PUNY SKULL UNDER YOUR FEET!  He only has two friends with him, I wonder how long they'll stand against us six."


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## Saepiroth (Mar 22, 2003)

(first attempt at a finished character sent in)


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## Jeremy (Mar 22, 2003)

So how's the submissions and approval process coming along?


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## seasong (Mar 22, 2003)

So, it's about 4am here, and I just got up and started opening my e-mail.

_Good grief_, said Charlie Brown, _What have I done to deserve this?_ Actually, I think he said, _AUGH!_ Regardless, the boy had it coming. Whether it was refusing to stand away from the kite-eating tree, refusing to train for the baseball game, or refusing to find someone different to kick the football, Charlie Brown liked the pain, and he asked for it.

More seriously...

I only got ONE e-mail after midnight, and since what's in the e-mail is stuff that was already under discussion, and it's only one, I'm going to go ahead and keep it (i.e., it only had one new thing, and even that was from an earlier discussion ).

However, I am not taking any more as of this post (even ones that refer to earlier discussions). There are plenty of questions I still haven't answered, and I've collected every e-mail in a special folder which I will be going through today and tomorrow. I won't be devoting every waking hour to this, but I plan to be done this weekend .

I'll check back in here every once in a while, and I'll post anything approved here first, before editting it into the web page.


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## seasong (Mar 22, 2003)

Nix that. I will post anything here after I've finished the web page. The web page is taking a fair amount of work, and I want to make sure it's fully functional. I've replied to each of you individually with approved/banned/altered/nerfed stuff.

Man. Y'all gave me quite a bit to do .

Also, to repeat: I am not accepting ANY FURTHER OGL STUFF. None. Nada. Zero. Not even if it's a prereq required by something else you sent me. Not even if it's the only thing you've ever loved in the world. Go weep into your core books, then use something from there . The "what twinky item can I get in" part of the contest is over - from here on out it's all about character design within pre-existing rules, and strategy in the arena.


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## seasong (Mar 22, 2003)

I am still discussing some things in e-mail. I am reading through the rules carefully as I do so. This equals SLOOOOOOW responses. Please have patience with me.

Speaking of slow responses, reapersaurus, I just responded to your extremely excellent points. Please check your e-mail!


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## reapersaurus (Mar 22, 2003)

got it.

I'm sure it's a ton of work we've plopped on your lap, but all i can say is...  you asked for it!  

keep up the good work in wading thru it all.

Are you planning on waiting to post what's been approved until it's ALL done, or if the muse strikes you, will you be posting tidbits as you get 'em written up?


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## Saepiroth (Mar 22, 2003)

reaper; mind if i ask what sort of design theme you're rolling towards? since Smackdowns are discouraged, I'm interested in where you're going instead of a shield-master...


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## seasong (Mar 22, 2003)

Smackdowns aren't discouraged exactly, just the ones I can spot a mile away . And they are discouraged from working more than once .

Well, okay, fine, they're discouraged .

To answer reapersaurus' question, I was PLANNING to post tidbits, but it's more than enough work just getting everything assembled. At this point (60% of the way done), I will be happy to get the web page complete and running smoothly, and then I'll start thinking about posting tidbits.

As it is, everything relevant in this thread is in the web page, and I'm working my way through the e-mails. When I've got that, I'll also have a fair idea of what questions I've left unanswered, and be able to crank those out.

The website is looking good though (as long as you like spartan no-graphics design ).


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## Saepiroth (Mar 23, 2003)

where's the webpage? i'm probably a blind moron, but i missed the link (if you posted it).

edit; I'm stupid, i didn't realize you hadn't finished.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 23, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *reaper; mind if i ask what sort of design theme you're rolling towards? since Smackdowns are discouraged, I'm interested in where you're going instead of a shield-master... *



well, yeah i actually do kinda mind, no offense.
But I haven't come close to finalizing a design - just vague ideas that I hope I included enough OGL material to pull off in the face of (I'm sure) some monstrosities that some of you put together.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Okay, I received two alternate core classes in e-mail, from two different people. A martial artist and a ninja.

The martial artist is, I think, from Kenneth S. Hood's Imperium stuff, and the ninja is from LOT5R. Both started out Not Balanced, and it's been a really massive headache to find a fair way to make them into proper core classes without nerfing them so much that it's unfair to the person wanting to play them. I could spend a week on either one, using a thread like this one in the House Rules forum, to really get it right. So I'm going to ban them, because in very practical terms, I can't meet the deadline with them.

Many of the individual abilities in the class would make good swaps in the rogue or monk classes, however, and if you will send me a list of what abilities, specifically, you were hoping for out of the respective classes, I will work out an appropriate swap and let you take the alternate ability set for the standard core class.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

*THE WEBSITE*

As mentioned, it is pretty spartan. I will be using this for reference from now on. It's about 20,000 words, so it makes a nice, small, 16 page supplement .

If you see errors, please let me know.

If I'm missing something we talked about, let me know, since this will be my reference work!

_Edit: Note that I have not included banned items. Given the time sink just getting the approved stuff in was turning out to be, I will have to do banned stuff some other time._


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## Tisvon (Mar 23, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *THE WEBSITE
> 
> As mentioned, it is pretty spartan. I will be using this for reference from now on. It's about 20,000 words, so it makes a nice, small, 16 page supplement .
> 
> ...




Looks cool.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Error: Draconic Might was erroneously priced on the web page. It should have been 1,200 GP. This has been corrected.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Forgot:
Dancing Charge (feat)
Two-Weapon Harmony (feat)

These have been added. Thanks!


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## Saepiroth (Mar 23, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *THE WEBSITE
> 
> As mentioned, it is pretty spartan. I will be using this for reference from now on. It's about 20,000 words, so it makes a nice, small, 16 page supplement .
> 
> ...



 awesome


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

I've mentioned this to a few people in e-mails, but I thought I might as well make it clear here:

If you sent me a "final copy" of your character sheet prior to the website going up, I did not treat it as a "final copy". Please feel free to go through the website and make sure there's nothing you want to change before telling me it's "final".

Also, I am trying to fix the Mantle of Egregious Might right now. Augh!


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Mantle of Egregious Might fixed.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Oh, interesting side note: I'd originally predicted about 50-60 items coming my way for approval. What I actually received was about 80 items that were approved (some with nerfing or alteration for rules compliance), and probably about 20-30 that were banned.

We've also got quite a few pre-game rules clarifications, and a few house rules, all of which look pretty good... and I think that I've established a good enough rapport that y'all know what to expect from me when I DO make mid-game rulings (i.e., as rules strict as I can be, with an eye towards simple rules and an interesting fight when there are gray areas).

Oh well, enough rambling from me. I've got characters to pick apart. Prepare to face Great Justice!


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## cool hand luke (Mar 23, 2003)

nevermind


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Well now I'm darned curious... nevermind what?


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## cool hand luke (Mar 23, 2003)

I asked a question, then found the answer to it myself on the website.  Can't wait to get to work tomorrow and see what your response was to all my emails.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Oh, that. I just answered 'em .

My Yahoo ID = temanp, by the way. Let me know if you'll be around, and I'll login.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 23, 2003)

I'll be online for the next hour or so.  Yahoo couldn't find temanp for messenging.


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

I'm online right now... maybe add me as a friend or something? I don't use it very often, so maybe I'm doing something wrong...


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## cool hand luke (Mar 23, 2003)

try me tony52398

of course, let me download the program 1sr!


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

Just sent you a message asking to be your friend.  Yahoo so weird


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## cool hand luke (Mar 23, 2003)

i'm downloading it right now


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## Saepiroth (Mar 23, 2003)

this is why all sane people just use trillian and set up all five major services simultaneously

http://www.ceruleanstudios.com/trillian/index.html


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## seasong (Mar 23, 2003)

I don't really use it often enough to worry about it .


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

A few questions answered from the 4 people who jumped me on Yahoo... 

1. A fallen paladin blackguard gets a monster summoning ability. This ability can only summon CR 1 monsters. Caster level is effectively twice blackguard level for all general purposes.

2. Sorcerers gain no benefit from the quicken metamagic. I am thinking of allowing quickened sorcerer spells, which would negate the sorcerer's full round casting for those spells. *Would there be any objections to that?*

3. Is there any way at all that anyone might become incorporeal? Yes. Several. See the spell Shadow-walker on the web site, the vampire template, maybe some other spells. I ordinarily wouldn't consider this worth mentioning, but since I specifically banned ethereal/astral/etc., I decided y'all needed to know that there WERE some possibilities of incorporeality.


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## Number47 (Mar 24, 2003)

I hate to do this to you, but I would really appreciate a more full description of the Prestige Classes on the website.


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

No prob. I've had some time to rest . I'll get back under the whip


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## Saepiroth (Mar 24, 2003)

oh! i just thought of a rules question for you; can True Seeing see through thick, magically conjured smoke? say, maguically created, though it's persistent after the cessation of magic?


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## Jeremy (Mar 24, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *2. Sorcerers gain no benefit from the quicken metamagic. I am thinking of allowing quickened sorcerer spells, which would negate the sorcerer's full round casting for those spells. Would there be any objections to that?
> *






> Quicken Spell [Metamagic]
> Benefit: Casting a quickened spell is a free action. The character can perform another action, even casting another spell, in the same round as the character casts a quickened spell. The character may only cast one quickened spell per round. A spell whose casting time is more than 1 full round cannot be quickened. A quickened spell uses up a spell slot four levels higher than the spell’s actual level.




As it specifically says that full round spells can be quickened, I have no problem with that affecting the it-makes-it-a-full-round-action clause of spontaneous metamagic.  Though it certainly isn't intended that way.  Course, if we don't allow it, then anyone who casts as a spontaneously will only be able to cast one spell a round no matter how many attacks their hasted opponents have.


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> oh! i just thought of a rules question for you; can True Seeing see through thick, magically conjured smoke? say, maguically created, though it's persistent after the cessation of magic?



Per the spell description, NO. Nor will it see through _plant growthed_ foliage, conjured rain, etc.


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Note: Arcane Leech has been updated.


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Just a reminder: During a chat this came up and I wanted everyone to have a chance to read it...

"And actually, some of the environmental effects are likely to be nasty, but it's the sort of thing which, if you read through the Environments section of the DMG, you can prepare for."

Remember: rain, winds, cold, heat, tunnel fighting, fighting in water, fogs, etc. I just wanted to make sure everyone knows what they're getting into . No magical effects or weird physics or planes, but the environment can be pretty hard on you, too.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 24, 2003)

oh, cool; i just noticed that there's a rule for smoke in the environment, too! now _that_ is helpful.


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

A note on flinging things with Telekinesis:

This is an interpretation of the rules, not a rules change, but it's worth mentioning:

If you don't throw a weapon LIKE a weapon, it is not treated as a weapon for purposes of damage. If you DO throw it like a weapon, you can only concentrate on a number of weapons based on your BAB and number of attacks. You get your INT bonus to hit, which is advantageous, but otherwise, it is functionally impossible to fling a bajillion throwing stars and expect them to behave like throwing stars for purposes of damage.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 24, 2003)

Comedy "Brilliant Energy" throwing stars?


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

That would be a lot of brilliant energy throwing stars .


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## Saepiroth (Mar 24, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *That would be a lot of brilliant energy throwing stars . *



 especially because you have to pay for magical shuriken individually! :monocle:


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Divine hammer has been posted.

_Edit: To bed with me! Yay!_


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## cool hand luke (Mar 24, 2003)

? on cohorts......

1.  is there any limit on the race of the cohort? (besides ecl, and the equivalent leadership level requirement?
2.  how do you go about creating the cohort' stats?  and how much gold is allowed ( I know it's in the DMG, but I don't have access to it till thursday.)


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Cohorts: NPC wealth table, average HP, 28 point buy for attributes, otherwise the same options as the gladiator.

1. Limits on Race: Same as for characters. ECL affects level normally.

2.
a. 28 point buy, same costs.
b. Gold is based on an NPC of the cohort's level. I can look at it tonight and send you the amount by level. E-mail me a reminder, so I don't forget .

The above was posted earlier in this thread, but I forgot it on the website - I will update that tonight, also.


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## Number47 (Mar 24, 2003)

Okay, here is a map that I made for tracking players on the field. I will be updating this when information comes in and I have the time. This should help those of us who are more visual-oriented to track where everything is and what everyone is doing. Of course, almost everyone will be invisible after the first round again, making this map useless. I will post everything that is visible for every participant.

If you have a preference for a symbol for your character, it's first-come, first-serve. I am taking the symbol for Player A, the star.


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## Jeremy (Mar 24, 2003)

I'd like the spade.    Player J for Jeremy.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 24, 2003)

give me the cross/plus sign for player m


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Wow, that's awesome . Thanks .


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## JDragon (Mar 24, 2003)

Very Cool, thanks for taking the time to put that together for all of us.   

I'll take the X, if possible, please?

Thanks

JDragon


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## Number47 (Mar 24, 2003)

Not a problem, really. I will update it with everyone's choices in a couple days or so.

Seasong: when you post the results for a turn, if you break it down action by action, I will try to do a step-by-step series of maps. Perhaps someone can even animate the whole thing together.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 24, 2003)

Nike Swoosh! I want the nike Swoosh!


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

This is the format for results that I was planning, although I'm also planning to improve it as we go along.

*Flavor Text*

Joe rips into Jane with his dual-sword style, managing three vicious blows before Jane manages to _dim door_ away. She retaliates with a lightning bolt (which almost catches poor Bob), then flees.

Bob hauls butt and gets out of the way of any further lightning.

(Note: Bob missed his turn and followed my policy of cowardice).

*Initiative 22*

Joe Fighter (new position 33,52, 0 ft)
Move: 32,51 to 33,52 (5 foot step).
Full Round: Full Attack vs Jane Wizard.
- Longsword (roll 20, confirm 7, no crit, dmg 18 slash, 3 fire)
- Shortsword (roll 2, miss)
- Longsword (roll 8, miss)
- Shortsword (roll 19, confirm 12, crit, dmg 32 slash)
- Longsword (roll 14, dmg 17 slash, 2 fire)
Haste Action: Trip Jane Wizard
- No Attack of Opportunity
- Trip (roll 17, Jane roll 2, Jane falls prone)

_Moving with lightning speed, Joe steps into Jane's personal space with flashing swords. Whack! Whack! Whack!_ - Joe.

*Initiative 17*

Jane Sorceress (new position, 29,64, 0 ft)
Quickened Spell: Dimension Door to 33,60.
- Joe Attack of Opportunity (roll 9, miss)
- Jane arrives at 33,60
Standard Action: Lightning Bolt from 33,59 to 33,0
- Damage 35 electrical
- Joe Reflex (roll 5, failed, dmg 35 electrical)
- Bob Reflex (roll 7, success, dmg 0 electrical )
- Transparent adamantine wall scorched a bit
Free Action: Scream "Get away from me, you lout!"
Move: Stand up.
Haste Action: Move: 33,60 to 29,64 (moved 30 ft)

*Initiative 16*

Bob Rogue (new position )
Move: 33,10 to 23,35 (150 ft, full run)
Haste Action: Crouch behind some rocks and hide.
- Hide (roll 19)
- Bob is somewhere among the rocks. You can not see him.


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## Number47 (Mar 24, 2003)

Works for me


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## Saepiroth (Mar 24, 2003)

Triangle-- Character C, for me!


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## Jeremy (Mar 24, 2003)

Looks good to me.  Except of course that Jane cheated.  Dimension Door is very disorienting, it ends your turn.  Once you've done it, you can only stand around.

She could however have cast the lightning bolt defensively, the cast the quickened dimension door defensively, and finally stood up.


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

Fortunately, I will be running your rounds when I have the books in hand, and not sketching them out on the fly as an example  .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 24, 2003)

I'm getting more confused as we go, I currently have 5 excel sheets in front of me, with different characters, trying to figure out which one is the best.

Seasong, you've got a TON of email questions when you get home!


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## seasong (Mar 24, 2003)

My advice: go with the one you LIKE best.

But I'll answer any rules questions when I get home .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 24, 2003)

I have a new concept I REALLY like, if it can be played like I think it can, there are 2 questions that might totally blow it out of the water though, so I'm waiting to see.


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## reapersaurus (Mar 24, 2003)

Character F, please - the half-moon.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 25, 2003)

wait... you aren't going to do it in a thread, are you? you're going to add a section to the site, right?


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> wait... you aren't going to do it in a thread, are you? you're going to add a section to the site, right?



I assume you're asking about the rules questions .

Yes, if the rules question deserves a public answer, I'll answer it on the site, and then let everyone know that there is a clarification on the site.

However, cool hand luke's questions (I've just finished going through them) consisted of asking what the rules ARE - he appears to not have the DMG right now . So I don't think it's needful for me to put up on the site - there was no real clarification involved.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 25, 2003)

i was actually asking about the eventual playing of the game. sorry if i was unclear.


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

Saepiroth: Uhhhh... 

I was planning on starting a clean thread (in the Fight Club forum) to post results in (and allow general commentary). Updating by editting a web site would be sufficient work that I would bog down, which would slow results.

Your rounds would be sent to me via e-mail, and remain private, of course.

If there is a better solution, I'm all ears, but I don't have the personal time to learn how to set up something technical.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 25, 2003)

OK, I just thought your major opposition to "movable type" was the map updating think that clockwork uses. I'm pretty sure that once installed, the "blog" part is pretty much autonomous; from your side, you'd just be seeing it about the same as you would see a thread.


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## Tisvon (Mar 25, 2003)

I'd like the circle please.


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 25, 2003)

My only concern for running the game on the forums here is that if this place goes down, so does the game. 

Once installed, Movabletype's backend is no harder to use than posting on a messageboard. It is really really easy.


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

Main concern = time spent learning how to set up.

Anyway, there seems to be enough interest, and I do like the blog setup clockworkjoe's got going... but I tried setting up Movable Type, and it was taking me too long for very little progress. Maybe I'm just that stupid, but I don't have the time to devote to figuring it out. I spent three hours and gave up - that was time I could have spent working on monster ECLs .

So, I'm going with Tripod's built in blog tool. It looks reasonable, I can upload images (like the map), it allows comments & HTML, it's not too hideous looking (I've modified the Plain Jane appearance), and it requires Zilch Setup, and Posting Is Easy. Anyway, here's the Hethas' Gambit Blog with nothing on it. One post, so you can try the comment function.


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

I've added some more race ECLs.

Please note that races are the only thing I am still accepting - ECLs are reasonably easy to calculate, and they shouldn't impact anyone's character design too much. For example, the spectre has level drain and incorporeality... but so does the already allowed vampire with the shadow-walker spell. If you were prepared for one, you should be prepared for the other.

*Also, I still have not recieved a list of what was wanted out of the martial artist and ninja classes.* I need that list so I can swap abilities; I need to swap abilities so I can let everyone know what the modified monk/rogue classes can do; the later this occurs this week, the more frowny I will get when I am working out swaps.

A frowny GM  is less generous than a smiley GM .


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## Saepiroth (Mar 25, 2003)

that's cool 

the commenting is also good for consolidating everything, so that you don't have to go digging throguh game discussion to find the game play.

(PS: posted)

edit; jeez, you're an early morning ninja!


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

I come before the sun. My blade removes the breath before light strikes the eyes. I am the early morning ninja.

<i>Edit: Y'all don't usually see me here in the morning because I'm usually composing my story hour in the morning, but this morning I already have my next story post written .</i>


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

*Administrivia*

Okay, I'm really lame...

I've got a few alternate e-mails for some of you, and multiple names (userID, e-mail ID, actual name, character name) and I'm starting to get confused.

I _really_ don't want to get anyone mixed up when sending out commentary on characters, so if each of you could e-mail me the following (with nothing else in the e-mail) so I can start organizing my inbox:

E-mail to me this:







> *ENWorld Username*
> Character Name: (leave blank if you don't have one yet )
> E-Mail 1:
> E-Mail 2:
> E-Mail 3:



The important part is the e-mails. I don't think I'm getting anyone confused on username or character names, but keeping y'all's e-mail addresses straight... yeesh.


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## Jeremy (Mar 25, 2003)

LOL

I'll send ya one when I get home.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 25, 2003)

ok, if the ECL's are still being accepted.  You ahve the 1/2 dragon 1/2 orc as 3, is this the standard for 1/2 dragon with anything?


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

Nope - 1/2 dragon changes too much with any given race. It should be +3 ECL with all of the core races.

A half-dragon half-ogre is probably somewhere around ECL +6; it gets pretty gnarly when you up the stats even more, and then add even more natural AC, breath, flying, hit die, etc. And a fighter 9, dragon-ogre mix should be decently effective compared to a fighter 15 (somewhat fewer hit points/BAB, but massive stat bonuses and free special abilities).


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## cool hand luke (Mar 25, 2003)

I meant with the core races, but, now that you mention it, go ahead and give me the official ruling on the .5 ogre .5 dragon when you get the chance.


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

That will be this evening, when I have Savage Species firmly in hand .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 25, 2003)

have you decided on a format for character sheets yet?


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

I think so. Honestly, it's easier for me to just convert characters over as I receive them, but if you want to save me some time, here's what I'm working from when I put your characters into my files:
	
	



```
[color=skyblue][b]Character Name[/b]
(monster race) (ECL)/(class) (level)/(class) (level)

STR xx (base xx, +xx race, +xx level, +xx enhancement, etc.)
DEX xx (base xx, +xx race, +xx level, +xx enhancement, etc.)
CON xx (base xx, +xx race, +xx level, +xx enhancement, etc.)
INT xx (base xx, +xx race, +xx level, +xx enhancement, etc.)
WIS xx (base xx, +xx race, +xx level, +xx enhancement, etc.)
CHA xx (base xx, +xx race, +xx level, +xx enhancement, etc.)

BAB +xx/+xx/+xx (do not use any bonuses on this listing of BAB)
AC xx (base 10, +xx size, +xx natural armor, +xx DEX, +xx enhancement, etc.)
  flat-footed: -xx (how much to modify down for flat-footed)
  touch: -xx (how much to modify down for touch)

SKILLS
Skill A +xx (xx ranks, +xx ability, +xx race, +xx synergy, etc.)
Skill B +xx (xx ranks, +xx ability, +xx race, +xx synergy, etc.)
Skill C +xx (xx ranks, +xx ability, +xx race, +xx synergy, etc.)

FEATS
(type) (level): (feat name)
  Types
    race (humans and monsters get feats for their race)
    exp (based on character level; 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15)
    ftr (fighter bonus feats)
    wiz (wizard bonus metamagic feats)
  Level: The level you got it at.

EQUIPMENT

Leftover GP: xx

Weapon                                  COST    WT
  XdXX+xx (type), (threat)/(crit dmg)
  Attack +xx
    (different types of attack, if applicable)
  Breakdown (varies)
  - show weapon's base stats, list magical enhancements,
    list feats that always apply (point blank shot,
    weapon focus, etc.), list ability score bonuses,
    masterwork status, etc.

Armor                                   COST    WT
  AC +xx (lt/med/hvy), Move xx, DEX +xx, Check -xx, Spell xx%
  Breakdown (varies, as for weapon)

Item                                    COST    WT
Item                                    COST    WT
Item                                    COST    WT
Item                                    COST    WT
Item                                    COST    WT

SPELLS
0-level
  All PHB cantrips
1-level
  Spell A
  Spell B
  Spell C
  etc.

Memorized:
0-level
  Spell A (1)
  Spell B (3)
  Spell C (1)
1-level
  Spell A (2)
  Spell B (2)
  Spell C (1)
etc.[/color]
```


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## cool hand luke (Mar 25, 2003)

cool, I'm all about saving you time, God knows your putting in enough on this thing.

Hey, can I also get a ECL for a half fiend?  Thanks...


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## seasong (Mar 25, 2003)

I'll have to think about that. Half-fiend is one of those weird templates that scales as you level.


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## Breakdaddy (Mar 25, 2003)

Muhahahahahahaha! I forgot my main PC's name! Gonna have to go home and fire up PCGen.


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## seasong (Mar 26, 2003)

For some reason I can't get my FTP to go up to the site, so I'm updating here. I will update the site as soon as I can get FTP to work again. 

Half fiends add +4 to core races. E-mail me if you want to know a specific non-core race combination.

Those of you who sent me updated characters last night can probably expect to hear from me by sometime tonight. It's going to take some time to do a thorough job on them .

_Edit:_ FTP wasn't working when I left for work, so it's going to have to wait until this evening. Another item:

Awakened animals are USUALLY going to have an ECL of CR+2, but predators and high-HD animals will have higher, and any animal listed as Small, Tiny, etc., will probably have slightly lower. Generally, if you think the above sounds advantageous for a particular animal, it's probably higher .


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

FTP Fixed. Put up the following updates on the site:

- Some clarifications on flanking. Nothing spectacular.
- Added ECLed races: _0.5-dragon core race, 0.5-dragon orc, 0.5-fiend core race, awakened animals (generic)_
- Quicken: It works for sorcerers too!


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## Number47 (Mar 27, 2003)

Flanking: Do the two people on opposite sides of a character have to be allies? Or is it enough that they are both enemies of the guy in the middle?

Prep round: You state that the prep round happens before the characters are teleported into the arena. This seems to imply that after the prep round you must still be targetable. In other words, no Dimensional Anchor or Anti-Magic Field. Is this right? I would like to vote for it to be that way, because there is nothing that one can do to bring down AMF once it's up so getting initiative on it would be nice.


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Flanking: Do the two people on opposite sides of a character have to be allies? Or is it enough that they are both enemies of the guy in the middle?



They have to be working together. If they are threatening each other (i.e., do not sufficiently trust each other to focus only on the guy in the middle), they do not get the flanking bonus.

I'll probably just ask both people (privately) if they are going to trust the person on the other side, or if they want to try for a surprise attack (5 ft step, attack the other person). A surprise attack will get a +2 circusmtance bonus if the other person told me they trust you.

Fair enough?







> Prep round: You state that the prep round happens before the characters are teleported into the arena. This seems to imply that after the prep round you must still be targetable. In other words, no Dimensional Anchor or Anti-Magic Field. Is this right?



Antimagic: "Artifacts and creatures of demigod or higher status are unaffected by mortal magic such as this". Hethas doesn't care. Dimensional Anchor will be treated with a similar lack of care where the gods are concerned.







> I would like to vote for it to be that way, because there is nothing that one can do to bring down AMF once it's up so getting initiative on it would be nice.



I can think of at least one thing that can be done against it (with several variants on the strategy), and one or two things that can be done to someone inside one, by high level spell casters.


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

*My list of confirmed players (alphabetical)*
Breakdaddy (received character, still looking over)
clockworkjoe
Cool hand luke
DM with a vengence (received alpha of character only)
JDragon
Jeremy
Number47 (received character, still looking over)
reapersaurus
saepiroth (received character, sent comments)
Sollir Furryfoot
Tisvon (received character, still looking over)

If you've sent it, but you aren't listed above, please resend. I couldn't find it.

It takes me awhile to go through each character thoroughly. The sooner you get me the character, the sooner you can fix any problems I find, and the sooner the character can be approved. Once you send me in the final copy which I approve, the character is set in stone. When everyone's characters are set in stone, I will post the intro at the site, and we will begin the Game.

If I have not received a character from you by Friday, I will drop you from the game - it is going to take long enough already, with me reading through 11 characters, without my having to wait longer. This shouldn't be a surprise - that deadline's been stated enough times already.

*So why does it take me so long? *

I rewrite the character into my format, then check feat and PrC prereqs, look through spell lists, add up ability scores, break down each weapon into its component stats, check how basic things interact, add up GP and XP costs, and then do that again for each cohort and animal companion.

I also go through your character's basic theme and whatever strategy you've told me and wrack my brains to try to think of ways that I am likely rule against you in the game. Most of you have been very helpful in this regard, both in explaining what it is you want to try, and asking me for clarifications in the rules that apply most strongly to your situation, but I try to make sure there's nothing else, either.

Not that I will succeed, of course .


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## Saepiroth (Mar 27, 2003)

I sux at the D&D rules accuracy 

I think I fixed the last problem though. That was a _mess_.


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## Number47 (Mar 27, 2003)

Yeah, I made a huge, simple, stupid mistake in my character, too.


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

No worries, y'all - that's why I checks 'em. D&D ain't easy, especially at high levels, and adding stuff up is just a plain-out pain in the ***. If I get a draft character with no mistakes at all, that's when I'll start worrying .


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## cool hand luke (Mar 27, 2003)

*EXCEL*

Seasong, do you have Excel?  I have my characters worked up in that.


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

Yeah, I can accept Excel.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 27, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Yeah, I made a huge, simple, stupid mistake in my character, too. *



 was it as bad as "big fat Expertise feat tree... with int 10"?


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## cool hand luke (Mar 27, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * was it as bad as "big fat Expertise feat tree... with int 10"? *




wow, Glad I'm not the only one that did that.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 27, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *
> 
> wow, Glad I'm not the only one that did that. *



 yeah... he said "I didn't even have that much"!  

And our exchange is up to some 5 "Re:"s in every header... I can only imagine what some people must've done.


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## Number47 (Mar 27, 2003)

Probably as bad as that. It was the "oops, you need 105,000 for 15th, not 100,000"


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## cool hand luke (Mar 27, 2003)

*role vs roll playing*

ok, I know this is  smack down, min maxing, mighty munchkin monster melee situation, 

HOWEVER,
are any of you trying to keep even the simblance of role playing in it?  Are you creating somewhat believable characters, or seeing just how far you can push the rules?

example, would you, say, throw out a cleric, with base strength 1, knowing in the prep round you will cast divine power, and jump it to 18 for no point cost?  (I know, hope you don't get dispelled, this is just an example.)

I'd say I'm going for 75% min maxing, 25% character.  I had basic concepts that I wanted to try, and thought that they might work well together. I crunched them as much as I could. Now that I've actually developped them, I think they will work, but realize there are more efficient "killing combos" I could make, but I'm sticking with what I got, because trying out these concepts is what attracted me in the first place.


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 27, 2003)

My character is a logical development from the question.  "What is the most important thing in D&D combat?", the follow-ups "How do I get more of it?" and it's collorary, "How do I make my opponent's have less of it?"  I think you'll be unpleasently surprised...

Any flavor that you see has been slathered onto that like a layer of oddly colored paint.


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## Number47 (Mar 27, 2003)

I'm at about 75/25, too. I have a hideously effective character, but I did bypass a few things because they simply didn't fit his personality. I also have the whole inter-relation with Xiao Fung and his two sons, Xiao Lung and Xiao Hu worked out.


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

*Saepiroth:* I think we're actually done. I've sent you my version of your character sheet (text file). Please look over it. If you don't find anything wrong, that's the version I will be using, and you are approved.

If I missed something, let me know and I will correct and resend it.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 27, 2003)

ok, I'll check it when i get home; there's a filter over the network everywhere else, and I can't get to my mail.

...

as for character balance, I'd say I'm closer to 65/45 or even fifty-fifty. i have a lot of _contingencies_, but plenty of  stuff too. naming and command words alone swings it.


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## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

Actually, sorry, Saepiroth, there was one more thing to fix .

But it's not a bad thing! You just have more skill points than you thought you did, so I just need to know which skills you need to bump up. When you get the character, if everything else is good, just send me the list, and how much, and I'll correct it on mine and resend.


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## Saepiroth (Mar 27, 2003)

...wait, did i forget to add the "Human" bonus 4 points? Jeez, I did, didn't I?











I'm so smart


----------



## seasong (Mar 27, 2003)

Saepiroth: You have 16 skill ranks to put into stuff. I just went through and made certain of this.


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 27, 2003)

I suppose I'll take the finger pointing


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (Mar 28, 2003)

I'll also be honest, I usually created my character's min/maxing stats before personality, although I usually will have an interesting personality afterwards I'm usually dissatisfied with it.  I'm getting better at roleplaying, but I'm around average I think, certainly not good at it   Perhaps in the future though.

So I'd say 85% min/max, 15% roleplaying.


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## seasong (Mar 28, 2003)

Y'all, I'm going to do what I can tonight, but it looks like I'm not going to get much done between now and Monday - I'm going to be down in Houston with pretty close to zero access to a computer for a few days. Anyway, that means I probably won't be able to respond to some of your character sketches, etc., until Sunday or Monday.

It's really not fair if I cut off character submissions before I let you know what I think of the character, so I'm going to extend character submissions until Tuesday of next week.


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## Tisvon (Mar 28, 2003)

I've got maybe 80/20. Of course, I'm crunched for time, so I'm expecting to die on round 2.


----------



## Jeremy (Mar 28, 2003)

I figure I'll last until the first weather change (Gawd or PC created).  But I hope I'll be able to at least shape the game a little before then.


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## seasong (Mar 28, 2003)

Regarding ratios: This is a Game of Death. It is a demonstration of strategies, and tactical skill. It is not a contest of who can be the prettiest before they are unceremoniously capped by vicious munchkin gangsters. I want enough RP to keep things interesting, but the primary goal is much the same as in Chess, except that you have options in what pieces you bring to the board, and where your King starts.

So please, if you feel that you're not roleplaying sufficiently, relax and work out those save totals again.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 28, 2003)

I have this BAD BAD BAD feeling seasong is directing that last comment at me.....


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## Number47 (Mar 28, 2003)

My biggest goal is to kill someone on the first round, preferably several people. If you count cohorts and animals, I'm pretty sure I can do it! The next biggest goal, of course, is to kill someone on the second round!


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## seasong (Mar 28, 2003)

Naw, I was talking about anyone worrying too much .


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## Jeremy (Mar 28, 2003)

Alright!  That's the kinda game I was hoping for!


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 28, 2003)

My goal is surprisingly not to kill someone on round one.  Considering the relative strengths of 15th level characters, this is nearly impossible.

My goal is to make it so they spend most of round one trying to stay alive, and then get the soft, squishy bits kicked out of them in rounds two and three.


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## Number47 (Mar 28, 2003)

Here is the updated map. What would really be useful for me to have before the game starts is:

1) Main character name.
2) Number of icons you will have on board at beginning of round 1.
3) Names for your other icons.


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## Number47 (Mar 28, 2003)

DM with a vengence said:
			
		

> *My goal is surprisingly not to kill someone on round one.  Considering the relative strengths of 15th level characters, this is nearly impossible.
> 
> My goal is to make it so they spend most of round one trying to stay alive, and then get the soft, squishy bits kicked out of them in rounds two and three. *




Well, yeah. That was why I included cohorts and animals.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 28, 2003)

here are my guys
1.  Mortem Redgrave (main)
2.  Unth Dirn
3.  Antony Grandell


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 28, 2003)

I'll post my character then.

Hagbard the Chartreuse
Thoramas the Puce
Emeldra the Mauve
Brown Bear
Elephant
Summon 1 (to be reveal later)
Summon 2 (to be reveal later)
Summon 3 (to be reveal later)


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## Saepiroth (Mar 28, 2003)

Cholestus The Shredder

only one icon


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## Tisvon (Mar 28, 2003)

Rax
Bax
Vax
Nax
Possibly summons


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## Number47 (Mar 28, 2003)

Here is the next one. DM with a Vengeance, to make the map-making easier, I prefer for each of your icons to have it's own name. If you plan on having more than one bear or elephant, please name them separately. Maybe give them proper names so we don't know what they are exactly. It will make it a lot easier for me when I am trying to interpret seasong's posted turns.


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 29, 2003)

While the summons will have names, I think It'd be simpler just to give them numbers.  I can't assign numbers until I know how many of each of the summons I get, but rest assured when the times comes you will have them.


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 29, 2003)

I have a rough draft of a character but your email is not on your homepage, your profile, the GoD rules site, or the GoD blog.

what is it?


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## DM with a vengence (Mar 29, 2003)

seasong at texas dot net

I believed it's mention on one of the earlier pages in the thread.

[Edit] Didn't know about that, sorry.


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## Jeremy (Mar 29, 2003)

DM, please edit you post so that the address is incorrect either because of spaces or because NOSPAM is contained within it.  I believe Seasong is attempting to avoid web spiders that collect email addresses for marketing purposes.


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## seasong (Mar 29, 2003)

Caught a few minutes at a computer .

1. Yeah, I try to avoid the spam monster where possible. The e-mail is "seasong at texas dot net".

2. clockworkjoe, I don't see anything from you in my inbox. If you sent it, please resend it and post here that you sent it.

3. I should be home by tomorrow evening. Not great, but I had a friend who needed me, and that's pretty much that. I'll start the error stomping dance then .


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## clockworkjoe (Mar 30, 2003)

email sent


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## cool hand luke (Mar 30, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *. I'll start the error stomping dance then . *




error stomping dance huh?

You ever seen the movie "they shoot horses, don't they"

That's how you'll feel after dancing on mine.


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## cool hand luke (Mar 31, 2003)

*oh no*

oh no, did my obscure reference kil the thread?:  season, you busy crunching players?  this thing still around?


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## Number47 (Mar 31, 2003)

Well, I have been checking every 20 minutes. Still no e-mail for me. Maybe he is working with some people that need more help right now.


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## JDragon (Mar 31, 2003)

Was busy this weekend and didn't have alot to say.

Just emailed my character to the big guy.  Hopefully will not take to long since its nice and simple.

JDragon


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## seasong (Mar 31, 2003)

I'm still around, and still checking characters. Not a lot of errors so far - just more complicated to go over, plus more companions than I expected. I actually burned 'em onto CD so I could review 'em at work .

Just for confirmation, I have these characters:
Breakdaddy
clockworkjoe
Cool hand luke
DM with a vengence
Jeremy
Number47
Saepiroth
Tisvon

I won't have JDragon's until I get home.

I have some basic comments on most of those, and I'll e-mail something this evening (Number47, keep in mind that I don't have e-mail while at work right now ) to all of you, just so you know where you stand. I don't think there will be any major issues with any of the characters, though.

Also, I should have the Monk Variant up this evening - I've ironed out the parts of the martial artist to include, and basically it's not a huge change, just some different special abilities, and slightly better damage combined with poor Will save.

It looks like there won't be a ninja variant of the rogue.


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## seasong (Apr 1, 2003)

Update: I will not be sending out individual e-mails. Suffice it to say, everyone's characters so far look reasonable, I don't see any major changes we will have to make, but it will take me a while to beancount to be absolutely certain .

Special thanks to Saepiroth and clockworkjoe for giving me VERY VERY SIMPLE characters .

Special thanks to DM with a vengence, Jeremy, Number47 and Cool hand luke for giving me VERY VERY COMPLICATED characters and challenging my abilities as a bean counter .

Breakdaddy and Tisvon: I wish I'd had a standard format from the beginning. I will never again take Excel or HTML, so long as I live . That said, the characters look okay so far .

Scheduling: I'm planning to be done by this weekend. At the current rate, I'm completing about 3 character analysises per day, which, including cohorts, means Saturday at the earliest. I also still haven't gotten everyone's characters, but the deadline is tomorrow night, so I'm not too worried yet .


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## Saepiroth (Apr 1, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Special thanks to Saepiroth and clockworkjoe for giving me VERY VERY SIMPLE characters *



 hee hee hee hee hee

I go with what I know


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Apr 1, 2003)

I'm sorry Seasong, is it ok if I turn in my character late tomorrow (Tuesday) night?  I wanted to get him finished up today but I'm swamped by my current project for English and I don't think i'll have time to put on the finishing details on him.

If I'm disqualified, I understand, but I'm really running against the clock here...heh


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## seasong (Apr 1, 2003)

Sollir, the deadline is midnight, tomorrow night. If you get me the character by then, we're all cool.

I show the time as 9:45 PM now, so you've got, what, 26.25 hours remaining?


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## DM with a vengence (Apr 1, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Special thanks to DM with a vengence, Jeremy, Number47 and Cool hand luke for giving me VERY VERY COMPLICATED characters and challenging my abilities as a bean counter .
> *




Always glad to be of service.


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## duder (Apr 1, 2003)

, think I could get in on this still?
I could get a character to you by tuesday night at 9:00pm cst. Is this alright? I hope it is, I really really really [insert as many "reallys" as it takes ] wanna play.

email: duder@sbcglobal.net


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## Saepiroth (Apr 1, 2003)

^^^
He's said a couple times that he's already all full up on people he can handle.


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## seasong (Apr 1, 2003)

Hey duder, I've got as many as I can handle right now. I know how you feel, though - I was about a half year too late to get into clockworkjoe's game!

Number47 may be running one in a few months, though, and depending on how this one goes, I may run another when this one finishes.


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## Breakdaddy (Apr 1, 2003)

I could send my sheets to you in PDF format if the HTML is too jacked up for your purposes.


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## seasong (Apr 1, 2003)

Actually, the major issue with HTML, Excel, etc., is the need to retype it and, in most cases, reorganize it.

The HTML, in particular, does not provide a breakdown of ability scores, saves, etc., which requires me to go back and reverse engineer the bonuses. With ability scores for example, there are 3 floating level bonuses which could be _anywhere_ - without that listed and broken out, I get to play a guessing game to figure out which ability scores have that bonus in order to arrive at the 36 point base.

It's not your fault, though, so don't worry too much about it - it's something that would have been fixed by my having a standard text format from the beginning (and requiring *.txt files only), and next time, I will .

For now, I've already done most of the work, so it's a moot point.


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## duder (Apr 1, 2003)

sucks to be me, throw me in as an alternate or something. dont hesitate, i'd love to play if someone drops out or you get one less then you thought you would.


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## Number47 (Apr 1, 2003)

Seasong, I would much appreciate it if you can give me the final rundown of players, characters and critters for my map. The more I get done before the start, the easier it will be to maintain for every round.

My current plan (but not a promise) is to first post the end result of movement after Seasong posts the entire rounds breakdown, which I will assume will be all at once. Then I will go back and post a separate map action by action, with simple graphics for fireballs or whatnot. Each map will have a short caption underneath describing the action. If the action/actions do not require any extra graphics, I will not make a map for that person/action for the round. This will make it very easy for someone to get a feel for the action just by clicking through the maps. I will probably host the maps off-site once we actually start, btw.


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## Number47 (Apr 1, 2003)

Did you ever post your alternate Monk? I can't find it.


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## seasong (Apr 1, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Seasong, I would much appreciate it if you can give me the final rundown of players, characters and critters for my map. The more I get done before the start, the easier it will be to maintain for every round.



No problem. You should have such a thing sometime between midnight tonight and this weekend .







> My current plan (but not a promise) is to first post the end result of movement after Seasong posts the entire rounds breakdown, which I will assume will be all at once.



It will be all at once.

The plan is ambitious and awesome .

Duder, you are an alternate. I'll let you know if I end up having a space.


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## Number47 (Apr 1, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *No problem. You should have such a thing sometime between midnight tonight and this weekend*




Well, I better sit by the computer then!


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## seasong (Apr 2, 2003)

So for some reason, my last update to the website didn't take. So in the meantime, here's the monk:

BAB: As Monk
Good Saves: Fortitude and Reflexes
Poor Save: Will
HD: 1d8

Special Abilities
1 - Monk's unarmed strike abilities, evasion, unarmed 1d6,
    Wisdom Bonus to AC
2 - Deflect arrows feat, SURGE 1/DAY
3 - +10 ft movement, unarmed 1d8 (1 level early)
4 - LIGHTNING FLURRY
5 - AC +1
6 - Improved Trip, +10 ft move, Bonus Feat (martial)
7 - Unarmed 1d10 (1 level early)
8 - RAPTOR WING
9 - Improved Evasion
10 - AC +2, +10 ft move, Bonus Feat (martial)
11 - Unarmed 1d12(1 level early)
12 - EARTH ADVOCATE
13 -
14 - Bonus Feat (martial)
15 - Unarmed 1d20 (1 level early), AC +3, +10 ft move

Surge (Ex): As a free action you can focus your mind and body to enter a natural state of perfect coordination, resulting in a surge of speed-increasing adrenaline. Your base speed increases by +20ft. (up to a maximum of 50ft.), you gain a +2 haste bonus to AC, and your attack roll penalties when using flurry of blows or lightning flurry are reduced by one. These bonuses last for up to three rounds plus your Constitution bonus, if any. After the surge is over, you lose these bonuses and are fatigued (-2 to Strength and Dexterity, cannot run or charge) until the end of the encounter. You can only surge once per encounter.  You may only surge when not wearing armor and carrying no more than a light load. You must surge on your turn, and cannot surge in response to an event. For example, if you attack with a flurry of blows and miss by one point, you couldn't begin to surge to cause the attack to hit.

Lightning Flurry (Ex): When unarmored, you can use flurry of blows to make two extra attacks, instead of just one, with unarmed strikes or with monk or light weapons. Instead of a –2 penalty to your attack rolls, all of your attacks have a –4 penalty. You must use the full attack action when using this secret.

Raptor’s Wing (Ex): Like a bird of prey, you prefer to attack from the air. You can use the full attack action to make a single extra-high, leaping unarmed strike. Your attack roll has a +1 competence bonus for every 5 ranks you have with the Jump skill. You may not move while using this ability, except for a 5ft. step before attacking.

Earth Advocate (Ex): Your style is heavily focused on grapples and throws. You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when starting a grapple and gain a +4 bonus to opposed rolls when attempting to trip an opponent or when someone attempts to trip you.


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## seasong (Apr 2, 2003)

Sollir, I got your character. It's messy, but I understand you had exams to do . Very interesting concept!

_Edit: I am now waiting on reapersaurus. Once I've got that character, I should have everyone._


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## Number47 (Apr 2, 2003)

Did reaper beat the deadline?


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## seasong (Apr 2, 2003)

Sorry, work today = mega boss level .

I've got everyone's characters. However, I counted how many people I have (11 people) and honestly, 12 is a nicer number . So Duder, if you still want in, and can get me a character by midnight tonight, I'll be doing your character last, but I'll squeak you in.

More of an update this evening, when I am away from work!


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## seasong (Apr 2, 2003)

Actually, I have a few minutes, so...

Number47, I should have a list of character names, cohorts, animals, etc., by tonight. That will not include summonings, however, as they will be a bit too variable. I'll add Duder when/if I get his character.

Planned schedule: I still intend to be done by this weekend. That's going to mean major crunch tonight and Saturday, but I think it can be done. I know the wait is aggravating, but I want to be thorough.

Also, *IMPORTANT RULE CLARIFICATION*: If your cohort survives and you die, your cohort will continue to be able to kill others and gain points for you (although diminished points). However, the "last gladiator standing" does not include cohorts - when there is only one PC left, no matter how many cohorts are still on the field, the combat will end, cohorts will be teleported off the field, and the last PC will have the choice of the Championship Fight or not.


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## duder (Apr 2, 2003)

i'll have a character generated by midnight/1am and sent to you )


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## seasong (Apr 3, 2003)

Character List:

breakdaddy
- Vimbolo (PC)
- Jakrovatti (Cohort)
- Tir`Adun (Cohort)

clockworkjoe
- Marius the Weathered (PC)

Cool hand luke
- Mortem Redgrave (PC)
- Unth Dirn (Cohort)
- Antony Grandell (Cohort)

DM with a vengence
- Hagbard the Chartreuse (PC)
- Thoramas the Puce (Cohort)
- Emeldra the Mauve (Cohort)
- Mr. Stampy (Elephant)
- Mrs. Stampy (Elephant)
- Mr. Buffles (Brown Bear)
- Mr. Cuffles (Brown Bear)
- Mr. Duffles (Brown Bear)
- Mr. Fluffles (Brown Bear)
- Mr. Gruffles (Brown Bear)
- Mr. Huffles (Brown Bear)

duder (TBD)

JDragon
- Izad (PC)

Jeremy
- Tairnandon (PC)
- Usasmir (Cohort)
- Osirdar (Cohort)

Number47
- Xiao Fung (PC)
- Xiao Fu (Cohort)
- Xiao Lung (Cohort)

reapersaurus
- Master (PC)
- Blaster (Cohort)

Saepiroth
- Cholestus the Shredder (PC)

Sollir Furryfoot
- Rillos (PC)

Tisvon
- Rax (PC)
- Bax (Cohort)


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## duder (Apr 3, 2003)

check your mail mistar dm person


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## seasong (Apr 3, 2003)

Check yours.

Heh.


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## seasong (Apr 3, 2003)

Note for those just starting to read who are unwilling to read through the whole thread to get at the rules. Here is the website. The alternate monk (posted above, this page) and cohort clarification (also posted above, this page) are the only things missing from the web page, so far as I know.


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## Marimmar@Home (Apr 3, 2003)

*A small favor to ask...*

I've got a small favor to ask of both seasong and Number 47, please always include the player names when posting the turns and updating the maps. For me as an outsider it was kind of hard to follow the events in clockwork joe's game and the discussions that followed. Thanks a lot! 

PS: Good luck to all of the gladiators! I can't wait for the mayhem to begin.


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## seasong (Apr 3, 2003)

Hi Marimmar@Home!

Unfortunately, it's one of those things where the whole reason for having character names is to have them . I will have a prominent, easy to access "cast" reference page, however, and also...

I think part of the problem is the slow, turn-by-turn pace. It's much harder to keep track of who's who when a week or more goes by between actions for a particular person. I mean, who is Martok, again? What did he do last? You'll see almost every name about every 1-3 days, and that should help a lot.

If it still seems to be a problem, I'll see what I can do.


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## Number47 (Apr 3, 2003)

The just-about-finished map. All I need is Duder's character name.


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## cool hand luke (Apr 3, 2003)

good grief I hope anyone annihilates that animal army with an array of area affects.  

(how's that for alliterations)


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## Number47 (Apr 3, 2003)

Seasong, could you do me a favor and let me know who takes up more than one square and how many? I will update that when I get Duder's info.


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## clockworkjoe (Apr 4, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *good grief I hope anyone annihilates that animal army with an array of area affects.
> 
> (how's that for alliterations) *




this post brought to you by the letter A


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

All of the bears take up 2 squares (5 ft by 10 ft). The two elephants take up 8 squares each (10 ft by 20 ft).


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

Extra note: Some of the characters in this tournament have items which are variants of other items in the core books. I assigned GP costs to these according to similar items and the guidelines in the DMG, and I erred on the side of Scrooge-like stinginess. If an item was particularly strange or unexpected-seeming, I posted it.

That said, not every variant item was posted. Some of them are simply potions of this or that 1st or 2nd level spell. Some are items which give skill bonuses and take up an item slot, just like elven boots and cloaks, rings of climbing, and so on. Etc.

Since I've gone through a few of them today, and I don't want anyone feeling ambushed by it, I thought I'd remind y'all .

Now back to my cage with me, to continue crunching numbers .


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## Saepiroth (Apr 4, 2003)

Awww, you allowed those +10(skill)/2000GP variant items? If I had known, I would've asked about a Belt of Tumbling...

Oh well. I got what I came for.


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

Meh. There's scarier things you can spend 2,000 GP on.


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## Number47 (Apr 4, 2003)

Some things I hope you didn't allow, especially finding out at this late stage, are potions of true strike or shield (unless the character crafted them) and skill-bonus items for use magic device.

Actually, in my opinion, to allow things not on the books, or even similar to what's on the books, is to really cheat the people who took item creation feats. On the other hand, if you mean that these people created their own items not on the books, that I'm okay with.


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Some things I hope you didn't allow, especially finding out at this late stage, are potions of true strike or shield (unless the character crafted them) and skill-bonus items for use magic device.



Use Magic Device: I would not allow this anyway - it's too unusual, it touches on a restricted skill, etc.

Potion of True Strike/Shield: Actually, potions which cast 1st level spells are already established in the book. That's core rules, no changes, no weirdness, and neither of those is particularly unbalancing .

With that said, no one asked about either one before you posted this, and since the deadline is passed, neither one will be allowed. That better?







> Actually, in my opinion, to allow things not on the books, or even similar to what's on the books, is to really cheat the people who took item creation feats. On the other hand, if you mean that these people created their own items not on the books, that I'm okay with.



As stated, I will not be allowing things which are "not even similar". However, I will note that people with item creation feats essentially have an extra 25,000 GP (if they spend the game-meaningless 1,000 XP) to spend on magic items. I don't think they're being cheated .


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## Number47 (Apr 4, 2003)

Your reassurances reassure me.


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

No problem . Happy to reassure .

I have to admit, I'm really looking forward to this. It's been very, very difficult to not give tactical advice, to not comment on likely scenarios or events, and to, in general, simply NOT TALK about all the character design philosophies, strategies and cool stuff I'm seeing. It will be nice to see everything in action.

Although next time I run one of these, -5 levels per cohort after the first. It's not that I think the cohorts are THAT effective (in fact, a few seemed suboptimal to me), I just don't want to deal with bean counting more than one cohort per person, ever again .

I'm also going to have a standard character sheet format right from the beginning. Whew!


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## Number47 (Apr 4, 2003)

I think the secondary cohort is pretty weak compared to some possible feats. It might look good on the surface, but you really are denying yourself some good crunch in order to get a 12th level (at best) guy with bad stats, low hit points and a crappy amount of magic items. I am guessing that everybody (including me) took it because it just seems kewl!


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## Saepiroth (Apr 4, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Meh. There's scarier things you can spend 2,000 GP on. *



 I dunno, I consider the possibility of around 40+ skill checks on Tumble to be pretty damn scary...


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## Number47 (Apr 4, 2003)

Eh. Tumble only does a few things according to the PHB...

Here is the last map to be posted before the game begins. Note that there is a vertical and horizontal for each animal, but I will only use the one I need at the time.


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

"Kewl" or not, it's killing me


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> I dunno, I consider the possibility of around 40+ skill checks on Tumble to be pretty damn scary...



At 15th level, you can easily manage a +27 bonus WITHOUT the item... and since the highest DC listed is 25, there's no functional differnce between a +27 and a +500.

It really doesn't matter.

The only person it matters to is someone with it as a non-class skill, and if they want to spend 2,000 GP to get a +28 total, I don't see much problem with that - it's not like you were not able to plan for people with the Tumble skill.


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## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Apr 4, 2003)

This is going to be so cool.  I can't wait for it to start.


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## seasong (Apr 4, 2003)

Oh yeah, I wanted to share this... I don't actually like April Fool's, but sometimes I get a funny idea. I don't use it, I just humor myself with it for a few moments. This is one of those:

"All right, y'all, after carefully looking over everyone's characters, I've decided that the game will need a bit more spice to keep things going, so Hethas is going to be in the arena itself, dealing death at random targets. If you attack her successfully for at least 50 points of damage, she'll respect you for a round and won't attack; otherwise, I will randomly pick a target each round to make a DC 30 Will save versus your soul being torn forcibly from your body and given over to demons for whatever fun they can think up.. I think this will help add to the sense of desperation you should be feeling in a Game of Death. What do y'all think?"

Note: Just to be clear, I will NOT be doing this.


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## Number47 (Apr 4, 2003)

Only DC 30? Not so bad.

Is that a Death Effect?


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## JDragon (Apr 4, 2003)

So when is it all going to hit the fan?

Lets get this party started.

JDragon


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## Number47 (Apr 4, 2003)

Are you going to e-mail each of us to confirm our characters?

I already have my prep round ready to send in, assuming my characters are okay. Should we send in our map locations with the prep round?


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## Saepiroth (Apr 5, 2003)

OK, I'll amend that... a Belt of Tumbling, _PLUS OA_, is pretty damn scary.


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## cool hand luke (Apr 5, 2003)

"suboptimal cohorts"

talking about mine, I assure you.  I was hard pressed to come up with 1 decent concept, much less 3.


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## seasong (Apr 5, 2003)

I will be e-mailing you each individually with confirmation of your characters. I'm hoping to be done by this morning. When you've received your approved character send me:

1. Your prep round actions.
2. Where you want to appear in the arena.

Note: All cohorts/companions must appear adjacent to you, or adjacent to another cohort/companion of yours, and you and your cohorts/companions must all form one group on the map.

When I've gotten everyone's prep & appear, I will explain where everyone is appearing, what they looked like prior to the prep round, etc. I will roll and post initiative.

You will then send me your round one actions, and the game will begin.

*Since I am going to be crunching characters this morning, I probably won't be around to chat, but I'll check here on the forum every once in a while. I will post here when I'm done with everyone but reapersaurus and duder, who got into the game so late that I'm behind on their characters.*


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## Jeremy (Apr 5, 2003)

Depending on when you get to my character, I may not be able to respond until late tomorrow.  Got a game to run IRL today.


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## seasong (Apr 5, 2003)

Well, I won't be done this morning, anyway . But I WILL be done today. And I expect that tomorrow will be spent on corrections, so no biggie. I'm just hoping to get the prep round going on Monday .

Props to Number47 for an amazingly error-free second draft, incidentally. There WAS an error, but just one!

_Edit: Er... that is, there was only one IMPORTANT error. Eh heh heh._


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## cool hand luke (Apr 5, 2003)

seasong, if you send anything to me, send it to both addresses, I may not be back at work until tuesday or wednesday.


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## seasong (Apr 6, 2003)

Firstly... yeah, I'm behind.

 

Secondly, I'm having trouble with my e-mail. This is unrelated to the first thing . Anyway, the following people should have received comments on their characters. Some of them I've gotten comments back from, but others I haven't, and since my e-mail is being a pain, I want to make sure y'all got my e-mails:

clockworkjoe (awaiting reply)
DM with a vengence (awaiting reply)
JDragon (awaiting reply)
Jeremy (awaiting reply)
Number47 (approved and confirmed)
Saepiroth (approved and confirmed)

Now, back to the first thing:

I am currently delinquent on Cool hand luke, Sollir furryfoot, Tisvon, reapersaurus and duder. That's also roughly the order I'm doing them in. I'm mostly finished with Cool hand luke and Sollir furryfoot, and Tisvon looked pretty easy to confirm, so hopefully I will actually be done with those three today.

For reapersaurus and duder, I haven't even started yet, as both came in pretty late. I may have to get them completed tomorrow morning, at work .

Breakdaddy had real life issues come up, and is dropping. He did this, naturally, after I'd gone through the character . (I'm just poking at him - it's not his fault his life has become hell).

Anyway, I'm sorry for taking so long. Next time, I'll be limiting it to 8 people, and I will have a character sheet format ahead of time. That will roughly HALVE the work I have had to do.


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 6, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *
> Number47 (approved and confirmed)
> Saepiroth (approved and confirmed)*



 Either he really knows his stuff or the "simple and brutal" club now has two members. 



> *Breakdaddy had real life issues come up, and is dropping. He did this, naturally, after I'd gone through the character . (I'm just poking at him - it's not his fault his life has become hell). *



 would it be too much to ask you to copy/paste what he made into a post?  I just want to know what he came up with before real life got the better of him; these things always seem to beget the most interesting possible character concepts.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Apr 6, 2003)

Can you email me again seasong? I haven't got anything from you.


----------



## seasong (Apr 6, 2003)

I just got a few quick e-mails out and crashed.

Crud.

If I don't get it working by this evening, I will send y'all e-mails from my work address tomorrow morning. Please continue to send your replies to my comments to my home address - I'd really prefer to not have a lot of e-mails popping up at work while my boss is around .


----------



## JDragon (Apr 7, 2003)

Seasong,

I have not gotten the email you sent either.

JDragon


----------



## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Apr 7, 2003)

With the dropping of Breakdaddy, can I hop in.  I can get you a character by Midnight.


----------



## seasong (Apr 7, 2003)

Note: I finished everyone by reapersaurus and duder yesterday. I then forgot to bring my notes with me so I could e-mail you from my work address.

On the plus side, that means I can tell y'all this: no one's character looks too bad. I think that, once I send each of you the correction requests, the fixes should be fairly easy (a lot of them are simply things like "please list the order you took these feats" and "you have more skill points than you thought"). Some of you might have to sacrifice a cheap item or two to come in under the GP limits.

I am hopeful (ever hopeful) that I can sit down and have some quality time with reapersaurus' and duders' characters this afternoon or this evening. Duder sent me cohorts, so I am going to strangle him, just as soon as I find out where he lives .

On the minus side, that means the Monday starting gate is hosed. Please feel free to berate me. Once we get started, things should run more smoothly, but for right now, I suck.

*Alaxk Knight of Galt:* There is a slot, but there is not time. If you got me the character by midnight, I would still have to go over it tomorrow, delaying us again . At this point, I just want to get us started.

I am planning to run this sort of thing again (with a character format  ), and you are more than welcome to jump into the next one.


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 7, 2003)

We understand all the work that this entails and are patient.  We'll be ripping each other apart soon enough.  Besides, the more time you have to nerf people besides me, the better I feel!


----------



## clockworkjoe (Apr 7, 2003)

still no email


----------



## seasong (Apr 7, 2003)

Yeah, I forgot to bring the characters to work with me. I'm on the phone with texas.net's tech support right now to make sure I have e-mail access when I get home. It's either my mail software (Opera) or an updated password issue, and either way it should be resolved today.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 7, 2003)

hope you get that email bug worked out.


hate to do it, but 
"told you so" on the standard format.


----------



## seasong (Apr 7, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> hope you get that email bug worked out.
> 
> hate to do it, but
> "told you so" on the standard format.



Oh, trust me, I'm crying in shame about it . You were right, you were right, you were right. Converting characters to a format I can scan quickly took better than 75% of the time I've spent on characters.

So next time I do this, I'll have a draconian character sheet which all shall use, and to which exemptions shall not apply . For now, it's too late to go back.


----------



## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Apr 7, 2003)

I completely understand.  I look forward to playing in the next one and watching this one.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 8, 2003)

another fun night of number crunching ahead?  how's it going?  status report?


----------



## Number47 (Apr 8, 2003)

Number of Duder's characters and names, if you please?


----------



## seasong (Apr 8, 2003)

Duder's characters:
- Duder (PC)
- Mang (Cohort)
- Omigawd (Cohort)

Status Report: No e-mail. Life sucks. I've taped the characters to my laptop case - if I forget that, I'm hosed anyway .


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 8, 2003)

_MANG_?

Duder... are you here from SA?


----------



## duder (Apr 8, 2003)

hmm, i can set you up an email if you want to use one

edit- Yeah


----------



## seasong (Apr 8, 2003)

clockworkjoe (sent this morning - awaiting reply)
DM with a vengence (got reply - looks good)
JDragon (sent this morning - awaiting reply)
Jeremy (awaiting reply - did you get this?)
Number47 (approved and confirmed)
Saepiroth (approved and confirmed)

Cool hand luke (last few bits, sometime today)
Sollir furryfoot (last few bits, sometime today)
Tisvon (last few bits, sometime today)

reapersaurus (behind)
duder (behind)


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 8, 2003)

I've replied to every email sent my way as of last night.  Was awaiting final approval on gear values before I recalculated the character sheet when last I looked I think.


----------



## seasong (Apr 8, 2003)

Okay, I just haven't seen your e-mails.  Which is no surprise at this point .

Ugh... okay, I'm going to send you an e-mail from my work address. If you could reply to that with your gear calculations, I'll do a quick check-n-approve.

If I remember correctly, that's the only thing left with your character.


----------



## JDragon (Apr 8, 2003)

Seasong,

Did you want us to respond to both email address or just the home one?

I thought I remember you saying you didn't want this stuff going to your work email.  Has this changed with the prolonged loss of email access at home?

Thanks

JDragon


----------



## seasong (Apr 8, 2003)

Yeah, go ahead and send it to my work e-mail.


----------



## seasong (Apr 8, 2003)

Number47 (approved and confirmed)
Saepiroth (approved and confirmed)
JDragon (approved and confirmed)

clockworkjoe (sent this morning - awaiting reply)
DM with a vengence (got reply - looks good)
Jeremy (awaiting reply - did you get this?)

Cool hand luke (last few bits, sometime *tomorrow*)
Sollir furryfoot (last few bits, sometime *tomorrow*)
Tisvon (last few bits, sometime *tomorrow*)

reapersaurus (behind)
duder (behind)

Today changed to tomorrow due to work issues - I've got too much of it .


----------



## Breakdaddy (Apr 8, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *
> Breakdaddy had real life issues come up, and is dropping. He did this, naturally, after I'd gone through the character . (I'm just poking at him - it's not his fault his life has become hell).
> *




YES! YES! I am Breakdaddy! Hear me roar! Oh, wait. Hear me scream in pain like a 6 year old girl!


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 8, 2003)

duder said:
			
		

> *edit- Yeah  *



 Awesome 


Might I ask who you are?


----------



## duder (Apr 8, 2003)

"g0d"


----------



## seasong (Apr 8, 2003)

Pronounced "geh-zeh-ro'-dee"


----------



## Number47 (Apr 8, 2003)

Okay, if everyone claps their hands and believes really hard, seasong will have working email when he gets home tonight.


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 8, 2003)

duder said:
			
		

> *"g0d" *



 a 3-03, I see.


----------



## seasong (Apr 9, 2003)

Number47 (approved)
Saepiroth (approved)
JDragon (approved)
DM with a vengence (approved)
Jeremy (approved)
clockworkjoe (approved)

Cool hand luke (last few bits, sometime today)
Sollir furryfoot (last few bits, sometime today)
Tisvon (last few bits, sometime today)

reapersaurus (behind)
duder (behind)


----------



## seasong (Apr 9, 2003)

I also have e-mail again! Yay! I don't trust it, but it's there!

I'll be sending out the other e-mails (from my work address) later today.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 9, 2003)

post when you have emailed it to me, so I can make sure I get it.

petrified of how many screw ups it contains.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 10, 2003)

*woo hoo*

all right, the messageboard is back!
where do we stand now? 
when do we get to start?!


----------



## seasong (Apr 10, 2003)

I got almost nothing done yesterday. I failed a wild magic check and Summoned Greater Boss. He is still here today and will also be tomorrow. I was at work late yesterday and may be today, which pretty much kills any ability I have to get REAL work done, like crunching characters.

Man, INT drain attacks suck.

So, I'm sorry. I'm going to be even later than I am. Howsabout I just say "this weekend" for the remaining delinquents (I'm the delinquent one) and stop raising hopes?


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 10, 2003)

that's fine.  how about if we all pitched in for a scroll of greater boss dispelling, send him back to whatever cirlce of hell they come from!


----------



## seasong (Apr 11, 2003)

Update: I am devoting all of Saturday to getting this done . Hethas' bloodlust shall be appeased.


----------



## JDragon (Apr 11, 2003)

Ok,

Heres a basic description of my character.


Izad, is a human male of average hieght & build with graying black hair and blue eyes.  He is wearing simple traveling
clothes is carrying a backpack and what appears to be an oversize bolt case filled with javelins of varrying sizes.

See told you it was simple.  

JDragon


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 11, 2003)

My three characters are respectively:

A human man of average height and build with a winning smile and a nice tan with no weapons in a monk's outfit.

A half orc man of heavily toned olympic gymnast build with an air of malice, pale skin, with no weapons in a monk's outfit.

And a ghostly human man with extremely long musculature in the remains of a monks outfit with no weapons and very dead complexion.  

None of them seem to be very interested in the taunts and threats of others.


----------



## Number47 (Apr 11, 2003)

Xiao Fung: Hmmph. An undead. I thought we were supposed to be challenged here.

Xiao Lung: But, Father...how can we kill that which is dead?

Xiao Fung: You dolt! All of us are dead. It just seems the gods ran out of energy bringing this one back to fight.

Xiao Hu (uncharacteristically): We're dead?

Xiao Fung: Yes, but not for long.


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 11, 2003)

^^^ wait, how is a slash a punctuation mark?

edit; editing is


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 12, 2003)

Important note; my spring break starts next week, and I'll be in arizona (and nowhere near a computer) from that sunday to the following monday. Hopefully that won't be too ruinous.


----------



## Number47 (Apr 12, 2003)

Better give seasong a general guideline for running your character, then.


----------



## duder (Apr 13, 2003)

was expecting an email by now, it's 7:44pm saturday and still haven't recieved anything reguarding my characters. It didn't take me a whole day to make them, more less check them


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 13, 2003)

so where do we stand seasong?


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 14, 2003)

*uh oh*

anybody else getting a bad feeling about this?


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 14, 2003)

oh no texas exploded


----------



## reapersaurus (Apr 14, 2003)

I'm sure seasong's OK, just delayed.

I'm actually OK with seasong getting busy : my work's been hectic recently, too.

Luckily, the next 2 weeks are a bit easier.


----------



## Greppa of Tartwater (Apr 14, 2003)

*Seasong*

Texas didn't blow up, Seasong's under a lot of stress and RL is intruding into his gamespace. Give him time. The players in his three other games are having to wait also.  He'll bounce back.


----------



## JDragon (Apr 14, 2003)

*Thanks*

Greppa of Tartwater,

Thanks for the update.

JDragon


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 14, 2003)

dang, I was really hoping that austin, or at least a certain 40 acres of it, had blown up!


----------



## seasong (Apr 15, 2003)

Hey y'all, I'm sorry for not posting some advance warning . Not that I really had advanced warning, but I should have taken a few minutes somewhere over the weekend to post.

I AM continuing the Game of Death. I WILL send character comments to those who still need them.

But this weekend, I didn't get any gaming done at all. Zip. It sucked, and I wish it didn't have to suck for y'all (and my other players, as Greppa mentioned), but it does.

Anyway, to recap: the GoD is still on. It just might take a little longer to get started. So if you are worrying, don't. (Of course, asking for patience over the Internet is kind of like asking for moderate driving in Houston ).

Greppa, thanks for posting when I didn't .

-Thomas


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 15, 2003)

any ideaq on a new schedule?  when do you think you'll have the rest of the reviews out?


----------



## Marimmar (Apr 15, 2003)

It's not only the players waiting, it's us lurkers too. I hope you get your things done soon since I would hate to see this go down.

The game must go on...

~Marimmar


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## cool hand luke (Apr 16, 2003)

oh yeah, description

my trio

a large (like, bigger than normal, not large size) human, with fiery red hair, and red, slitted eyes, carrying a heavy flail

a large (like the size) half ogre, with a long polearm

a human, blending into the shadows carrying a longbow


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## Number47 (Apr 17, 2003)

Seasong, I am going on vacation for a few days. You already have my prep round and location choices on the map. You won't need a first round before Tuesday, will you?


----------



## seasong (Apr 18, 2003)

No, you should be fine. Have a good vacation!


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 18, 2003)

Speaking of vacations... I'm going to be out of town from about this sunday to the tuesday the week after; nine days, or thereabouts. 



Plz don't kick me plz kthx


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## Jeremy (Apr 21, 2003)

Bee-ump


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 21, 2003)

*is there anybody out there*

Is there anybody out there?
Is there anyone at all?


----------



## Tisvon (Apr 21, 2003)

I'm just waiting for my character conformation email.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 21, 2003)

me too, anyone know where we stand on this thing?  It sure looks like fun, I hope it goes off.


----------



## Breakdaddy (Apr 21, 2003)

I have FINALLY gotten done recoding this SQL nightmare that was left me by a former employee. It feels SO NICE to be done with this, and now I can at least keep a close eye on these proceedings and have fun by proxy at least.


----------



## JDragon (Apr 21, 2003)

Still hanging out waiting for the fun to start.

Don't expect to last much longer over in the other game so having this one going to keep me entertained would be nice.

JDragon


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## cool hand luke (Apr 22, 2003)

seasong, you still there?  any idea if/when this might happen?


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 22, 2003)

*woo hoo*

got my character markups back from seasong, besides showing how incredibly incompetent I am at creating characters, it means were getting close!


----------



## Marimmar@Home (Apr 22, 2003)

Yippieh! There's still some life left in here. Can't wait to see the main event and I sincerely hope that the players involved are good sportsmen and do not start to fight OOC. 

~Marimmar


----------



## Tisvon (Apr 23, 2003)

I'm yet another person going on vacation. My character hasn't been approved yet, so I'm just hoping to come back before the prep round. There is a SMALL chance of me getting internet access, so send all emails to Tisvonthemage@yahoo.com


----------



## Tisvon (Apr 23, 2003)

I'm yet another person going on vacation. My character hasn't been approved yet, so I'm just hoping to come back before the prep round. There is a SMALL chance of me getting internet access, so send all emails to Tisvonthemage@yahoo.com


----------



## seasong (Apr 23, 2003)

Tisvon, will you be around this afternoon or evening? I've got your comments ready now... The majority of which consists of, "looks good, make it so" combined with one dash of "Please recount and fix your main character's feats".

Also, just so everyone knows where I'm at: Cool hand luke is approved with the changes we discussed via e-mail. Tisvon is done except that I can't e-mail from work right now (but I should be able to late this afternoon). Sollir Furryfoot should be completed this afternoon, and I will get him his comments either this afternoon or evening.

I might finish reapersaurus tonight, depending on how the caffeine holds out. If not, it will be tomorrow night (I have Boss Monsters at work tomorrow). If I DO finish reapersaurus tonight, I will finish duder tomorrow night; if not, it will be Saturday morning before I can have duder done.

Regardless, some people won't be available for a few days to a week, so I'll wait until I've got everyone's preparation round before I start.

Also, check out http://seasong1.tripod.com/hethasgambit/ for the current doings of the gods, as they have already begun to file into the arena to take their seats and comment.


----------



## seasong (Apr 23, 2003)

Okay, I'm not going to get out an e-mail to Tisvon until after I get home . Too much going at work right now. I've got his and Sollir Furryfoot's e-mails ready, though - I just have to get home and send them .


----------



## Tisvon (Apr 24, 2003)

Yea, I'll be around this evening.


----------



## seasong (Apr 24, 2003)

Tisvon and Sollir need to respond to me with some minor changes to their characters. Except for that, they are approved.

Didn't finish reapersaurus last night, so I'll try to have him done tonight. Damned cohorts .


----------



## duder (Apr 24, 2003)

well, finally  
I hope you finish mine today but I know you wont but thats a-ok.

To the rest of you guys, what would be an obscene amount of hp for a sorceror to have?


----------



## Number47 (Apr 24, 2003)

5


----------



## seasong (Apr 25, 2003)

I'm waiting on some responses from reapersaurus right now, so I'll work on duder's as I have time at work. Since my boss is in town, that may not be a lot .

Also, I have something going on this weekend that will happen either Saturday or Sunday; whichever one it happens on, I will be working on duder's character on the _other_ one .

Also, I noticed a rules question I hadn't properly answered for reapersaurus last night (I answered it now). If I'm still owing anyone an answer on something, please prod me again (at my home email, "seasong at texas dot net"). I promise I didn't mean to forget you, and I will answer this weekend.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 28, 2003)

so, any progress this weekend?


----------



## seasong (Apr 28, 2003)

I'm sending duder's response right now .

After that, I'm just waiting on revised/completed characters from reapersaurus and duder, and we should be set.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 28, 2003)

ok you 2 get on the ball!  get these things done.  I'm soooo ready.

of course, I don't really remember what I created, better review them quick!


----------



## Number47 (Apr 28, 2003)

Everyone please send in prep rounds and initial locations, if you haven't already! Seasong, the sooner I get the initial locations, the sooner I can get maps and such ready.


----------



## Saepiroth (Apr 28, 2003)

hay guys whats goin on in this thread



(I'm not dead)


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## JDragon (Apr 28, 2003)

#47, consider it done for me.

JDragon AKA Izad


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## seasong (Apr 28, 2003)

I'm waiting to get everyone's starting location before I send them to you - I'd rather have everyone locked in first, mainly for appearances .

Reapersaurus said he should have his completed character back to me sometime tonight. I haven't heard back from duder yet.


----------



## Tisvon (Apr 29, 2003)

I'm back, and hoping we can get this moving.


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## cool hand luke (Apr 29, 2003)

prep round and starting location sent, let me know if you have it.


----------



## cool hand luke (Apr 29, 2003)

can we get a cobatants page on the webiste, one that lists which player has which character, and a general description of them?


----------



## Jeremy (Apr 29, 2003)

I sent my initial location and prep round in last month some time.  Let me know if you did not receive it.


----------



## duder (Apr 30, 2003)

I haven't gotten anything from you.

duder@sbcglobal.net


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## seasong (Apr 30, 2003)

Duder, I am resending right now from work. Please post here when you get it.

_Edit: Sorry, to make that more clear: don't reply to my work e-mail. Just let us know here when you get it. My boss is in full swing today, so I can't have e-mails popping up _


----------



## seasong (Apr 30, 2003)

I believe that I have everyone's prep round + starting location except reapersaurus and duder. I won't be able to check until this evening, however, unless work lets up somehow.

Number47, I'll try to send you the start locations sometime this evening, but don't post the updated map until I get reaperaurus' and duder's prep+loc to you.


----------



## seasong (May 1, 2003)

So, Number47, I still owe you those locations. Sorry .

Turns out my collected e-mails of everyone's character creation back-n-forth, posted prep rounds, rules questions, etc... is, uh, huge. Like roughly 620 e-mails, with no solid subject headers, no search function (today marks the first day Opera has failed me - no &*%^$# search function), and no good way to organize them.

Anyone who wants to make it easier on me can send me an e-mail time stamped today with their prep round and starting location. I will then collect the starting locations, calculate new positions for anyone who overlapped and for cohorts, and send those on to Number47 to update the map with.

Also, I am still waiting on corrected characters from reapersaurus and duder.


----------



## JDragon (May 1, 2003)

Prep/loaction email resent with todays date at begining of subject line.

JDragon


----------



## Number47 (May 1, 2003)

I am at work and don't have my prep round available here. I hope you are able to find it in the e-mails I sent you. I didn't save a copy of that e-mail and I would hate to have to do it all over again. I will send off an e-mail right away with my start locations, though.


----------



## seasong (May 1, 2003)

Oh, I'll find everyone's prep round, no worries on that score . But for purposes of getting you everyone start locations as early as possible, it's easier/faster if they just resend them to me, than to wait for me to wade through them tonight and this weekend.

On the other hand, there will be a tangible benefit of my search - I'm making lots of subdirectories and organizing all of the e-mails .


----------



## Number47 (May 1, 2003)

Well, the locations for my guys just got sent off. They may not be exactly what I sent before, but they're in the neighborhood. There should be no real surprises on that. If you do want the prep round again, I could figure it out. I just don't wanna if I don't hafta.

For end of prep round locations, I need the x,y for each character with characters/creatures using more than one square as (preferably) x,y for top left square and x,y for bottom right. Seasong, please please rule that larger creatures have to be horizontal or vertical. I really don't want to have to do any rotating unless absolutely necessary.

Please remind seasong if you are having extra icons due to summon or some such. He will need them to figure out the locations and I will need them to make the map.


----------



## Saepiroth (May 2, 2003)

I just realized, you may want to add a "These are the players" page listing the characters and maybe the original base map in a link on that Blog.


----------



## Number47 (May 2, 2003)

Well, we aren't waiting on me


----------



## seasong (May 2, 2003)

1) I have a list of starting locations. Some people changed theirs a couple times, so I'm just double checking to be sure I have the latest. I'll send it by Saturday morning, whether I'm done double checking or not.

2) We are waiting on reapersaurus and duder. I haven't heard from reapersaurus since he said he'd have it that night, so I'm not sure what's going on with him; I gave duder a lot of corrections, and he's been asking clarifications on them, so I know he's working on it.

If I haven't heard from them in some fashion by Saturday, I'll discuss starting without them. I'd really like for this to be the last bloodless weekend.


----------



## Number47 (May 2, 2003)

By starting without them, I hope what you really mean is starting them at a random location? Surely the starting location and/or prep round aren't so important as to drop anybody?


----------



## seasong (May 2, 2003)

Yes. That wasn't clear, but yes.

I'm not talking about dropping anyone from the game, just getting it moving without waiting for all inputs.


----------



## Number47 (May 3, 2003)

Where do we stand?


----------



## cool hand luke (May 4, 2003)

do you have everyones starting position/prep round?


----------



## seasong (May 4, 2003)

Okay, so I've got the starting locations, and when I went back over it I was missing some people.

Clockworkjoe - *missing*.
Cool hand luke - all good.
DM with a vengence - missing coordinates for animals*.
duder - *missing*.
JDragon - all good.
Jeremy - all good.
Number47 - all good.
reapersaurus - *missing*.
Saepiroth - all good.
Sollir - *missing*.
Tisvon - all good.

* And there are a lot of animals.

I've heard from duder, but don't have his starting location yet. Still haven't heard anything from reapersaurus.


----------



## reapersaurus (May 4, 2003)

I'd like to say that I've got it ALL done, and sent, but I can't.
I wanted to reply here, though, to update.

I'm at work tonight, setting up for next week, and after I get home and watch my son, I'll finish what I can and send it, so the game doesn't stop for me.

Thanks for the multiple prods in the thread here, seasong, even tho I hadn't replied till now, I'd read all of them.


----------



## seasong (May 4, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> I'd like to say that I've got it ALL done, and sent, but at least I wanted to reply here.



Just worried about you. Glad to hear you're alive! 


> I'm at work tonight, setting up for next week, and after I get home and watch my son, I'll finish what I can and send it, so the game doesn't stop for me.



Sounds good.

As a side note, I just got duder's repaired character and sent him another round of corrections. A smaller round, this time . He also said he should have a prep round + starting location to me pretty soon.


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (May 5, 2003)

Hrm, missing, that's not good...I emailed you the day after you sent your analysis of my character, are you sure you didn't read my reply?  I didn't keep a copy err, but i'll write one up as soon as you reply to this post.


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (May 5, 2003)

Hrm, missing, that's not good...I emailed you the day after you sent your analysis of my character, are you sure you didn't read my reply?  I didn't keep a copy err, but i'll write one up as soon as you reply to this post.


----------



## seasong (May 5, 2003)

Sollir, I found one e-mail from you after the corrections, but it does not include a prep round or starting location.

It also looks like I didn't reply to it, so I'll do that now.


----------



## seasong (May 5, 2003)

Current status of prep round + starting location:

Clockworkjoe - *missing*.
Cool hand luke - all good.
DM with a vengence - some corrections, please confirm.
duder - *missing*. moving along nicely, tho.
JDragon - all good.
Jeremy - all good.
Number47 - all good.
reapersaurus - all good. still approving character.
Saepiroth - all good.
Sollir - *missing starting location only*.
Tisvon - all good.

The map is shaping up for a pretty good battle. I can barely wait to share it!


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## Number47 (May 5, 2003)

Okay. Everything is ready for the map. I will finish it when I get total coordinate, so just send me the finished numbers. I will be working on it at work this week because we seem to be real slow and the computers are nicer than home. Eastern time zone and I work afternoons, if that makes any difference.

Are we going to be able to get initiatives, soon? Seasong, are you going to have something like a Status page? If not, is somebody willing to take that on?

EDIT: Seasong, you sent me an attachment with an e-mail. I have no idea what it was supposed to be, I couldn't open it. Please give me coordinates that define a rectangle. I am a little confused as to how you are coordinating the larger animals.


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## seasong (May 5, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Are we going to be able to get initiatives, soon? Seasong, are you going to have something like a Status page? If not, is somebody willing to take that on?



Initiative will be rolled after the prep round occurs. I will post initiative then, in its own post; and all coordinates, in their own post.

Status page: I'm not planning on upkeep for a status page. I've got a text file of GM-only status stuff, but I'd rather keep player knowledge to what I post. If someone wants to maintain a status page, based on what I post, that's fine. And if stuff takes me less time than I think, I may start a status page.







> EDIT: Seasong, you sent me an attachment with an e-mail. I have no idea what it was supposed to be, I couldn't open it. Please give me coordinates that define a rectangle. I am a little confused as to how you are coordinating the larger animals.



Sorry, the attachment was Corel's native format - I attached the wrong file.

Coordinates = rectangle. Sure thing. Sounds good .


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## Number47 (May 5, 2003)

Finally stumbled across a little program that I had been searching years for. It's amazing what you find when you stop looking. Anyways, rather than explain what it does, I thought I'd show you. I decided to post it here because I used the Hethas Gambit text as the primary input. Read it, there are some real gems.

Have you room for one more?


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## Saepiroth (May 6, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Finally stumbled across a little program that I had been searching years for. It's amazing what you find when you stop looking. Anyways, rather than explain what it does, I thought I'd show you. I decided to post it here because I used the Hethas Gambit text as the primary input. Read it, there are some real gems.
> 
> Have you room for one more? *



 It looks like you fed it through a HAL bot...


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## reapersaurus (May 6, 2003)

My favorite line from the difficult-to-read output:


> "Neutral people are committed to others by personal relationships. A neutral person may sacrifice himself to protect his family or even his homeland, but he would win this contest, much less best any who came against him."


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## seasong (May 6, 2003)

Current status of prep round + starting location:

Clockworkjoe - *missing*.
Cool hand luke - all good.
DM with a vengence - all good.
duder - *missing*. moving along nicely, tho.
JDragon - all good.
Jeremy - all good.
Number47 - all good.
reapersaurus - all good. still approving character.
Saepiroth - all good.
Sollir - all good.
Tisvon - all good.


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## seasong (May 6, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Anyways, rather than explain what it does, I thought I'd show you.



That's some pretty messed up stuff .


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## Dinkeldog (May 6, 2003)

Continuation thread time.

BTW, is there any reason this isn't going into the messageboard games forum?


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