# Official 'Alter Self' item?



## calypso15 (Jul 11, 2006)

Is there an official (meaning, roughly, Core, Complete, or, in my case, Forgotten Realms) item that grants continual Alter Self?  Maybe even a specialized version of it?

Basically, I'm making a character that uses constant Alter Self to appear human, but an item of Alter self is pretty pricey.

Calypso


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## domino (Jul 11, 2006)

calypso15 said:
			
		

> Is there an official (meaning, roughly, Core, Complete, or, in my case, Forgotten Realms) item that grants continual Alter Self?  Maybe even a specialized version of it?
> 
> Basically, I'm making a character that uses constant Alter Self to appear human, but an item of Alter self is pretty pricey.
> 
> Calypso



Maybe a Hat of Disguise.


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## Staffan (Jul 11, 2006)

How about a _hat of disguise_? That's _disguise self_ instead of _alter self_, but that should be preferable if all you want to do is look different.


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## calypso15 (Jul 11, 2006)

Well, I plan on having a hat of disguise as well, to change my equipment and whatnot.  But Alter Self is a transmutation, so it stands up to scrutiny much, much better than an illusion.

Calypso


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## Mistwell (Jul 11, 2006)

Alter self is a very powerful spell.  You could change from a creature that flys to a creature with a burrow speed to a creature with a swim speed to a creature with a climb speed to a creature with many natural attacks to a creature with a high natural armor bonus to a creature with massive racial bonuses to skills...etc., an infinite number of times.  That would be a VERY pricey item, and not worth it based on your stated goals.


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## calypso15 (Jul 11, 2006)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Alter self is a very powerful spell.  You could change from a creature that flys to a creature with a burrow speed to a creature with a swim speed to a creature with a climb speed to a creature with many natural attacks to a creature with a high natural armor bonus to a creature with massive racial bonuses to skills...etc., an infinite number of times.  That would be a VERY pricey item, and not worth it based on your stated goals.




Right, it would be 18k gold.  That's why I was hoping there might already exist an item that was limited in some way.  You know, you can only turn into humans or something.  If not, I might be able to talk my DM into making one, though I doubt it.  I think he's getting sick of me.  

Calypso


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## Mistwell (Jul 11, 2006)

calypso15 said:
			
		

> Right, it would be 18k gold.  That's why I was hoping there might already exist an item that was limited in some way.  You know, you can only turn into humans or something.  If not, I might be able to talk my DM into making one, though I doubt it.  I think he's getting sick of me.
> 
> Calypso




It would be 18K for use activated for 30 minutes at a time by the guidelines, though I might personally up that cost due to the utility of the spell.

If I am not mistaken you are looking for a constant-on alter-self.  That's the equivelent of a persistent spell alter self, which is I believe an 8th level spell (and even that would end after 24 hours, requiring a new use).

I really think a hat of disguise is what you are looking for.


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## calypso15 (Jul 11, 2006)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> It would be 18K for use activated for 30 minutes at a time by the guidelines, though I might personally up that cost due to the utility of the spell.




It's continuous.  You don't have to reactivate it.  It would be 12k if I was making a use-activated item.

Under "Creating Magic items":

"Use-activated or continuous, Spell level × caster level × 2,000 gp, Lantern of revealing"

"This type of item simply has to be used in order to activate it. A character has to drink a potion, swing a sword, interpose a shield to deflect a blow in combat, look through a lens, sprinkle dust, *wear a ring, or don a hat*. Use activation is generally straightforward and self-explanatory.

Many use-activated items are objects that a character wears. *Continually functioning items are practically always items that one wears.* A few must simply be in the character’s possession (on his person). However, some items made for wearing must still be activated. Although this activation sometimes requires a command word, usually it means mentally willing the activation to happen. The description of an item states whether a command word is needed in such a case."

Calypso


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## Mistwell (Jul 11, 2006)

calypso15 said:
			
		

> It's continuous.  You don't have to reactivate it.  It would be 12k if I was making a use-activated item.
> 
> Under "Creating Magic items":
> 
> ...




First, the section you bolded has no meaning for this debate.  We are not discussing whether this item is worn or carried, and that is what that sentence is about.  If it is worn, it can be either use-activated or continuous.  Just because almost all continuous items are worn doesn't mean almost all worn-items are continuous (and the sentence before the one you bolded says that).

Back to he main argument: The guidelines state "Not all items adhere to these formulas directly. The reasons for this are several. First and foremost, these few formulas aren’t enough to truly gauge the exact differences between items. The price of a magic item may be modified based on its actual worth. The formulas only provide a starting point."

Based on the DMG guidelines, and comparing it to similar items, this should be a use-activiated item (like a command word or willing acivation to happen) and not a continuous-on item.  The reason I am saying this is, in particular, the spell Alter Sellf must have a TON of choices selected at the time of use, and it if is always on, then you really are talking about a different spell.

In addition, I think it would be overpowered to do it strictly by the guideline prices as it is not a true guage of the exact power of this particular item.  Multiply by 1.5 vasting underrates the power of a continuous use alter self, as it does not account for the number of different forms you can take all in the same day.

Much like a ring of invisibility, this item should be acitivated, and have the effect of a spell that has a limited duration before it has to be activated again.


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## Jack Simth (Jul 11, 2006)

I know of no specific item that does that kind of thing, but a big part of how I'd price it depends on exactly what you want.

An item that turns you into a specific human while worn, with the specific appearence set at the creation of the item?  That shouldn't be too terribly pricy; I'd probably let it go for under five grand, personally.  Sure, it's useful - five large nets you an extra identity to wear around town - but a Hat of Disguise will fill most those needs, and let you change faces every round (but has an interaction Will save - under most situations, most people won't qualify as interacting).  

A command-word item that gives you Alter Self at will?  That one's a scoch over the top - replaces way too many fairly expensive items.  It would be more expensive than guidelines suggest.

Or you could play a Changling or something.....


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## calypso15 (Jul 11, 2006)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> The reason I am saying this is, in particular, the spell Alter Sellf must have a TON of choices selected at the time of use, and it if is always on, then you really are talking about a different spell.
> 
> In addition, I think it would be overpowered to do it strictly by the guideline prices as it is not a true guage of the exact power of this particular item.  Multiply by 1.5 vasting underrates the power of a continuous use alter self, as it does not account for the number of different forms you can take all in the same day.




Bleargh.  I wouldn't like to buy an argument.  I agree on all counts.  I was merely pointing it out that, priced by the guidelines, it's 18k for a continous 'Alter Self'.  Which, admittedly, doesn't make much sense, since you have to make choices for the spell.

If you (that being, Mistwell as well as anyone that cares) were going to create an item (slotted I guess), that let you 'Alter Self' into one, particular person (that is, all variables of the spell are set in stone and it turns you into a mundane human) with infinite duration, what would you price it at?

Calypso


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## calypso15 (Jul 12, 2006)

Jack Simth said:
			
		

> Or you could play a Changling or something.....




No can do.   :\   The concept is a kobold that, either ashamed of who he is or tired of the scorn, has adopted this identity of a human.

Calypso


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## Mistwell (Jul 12, 2006)

calypso15 said:
			
		

> Bleargh.  I wouldn't like to buy an argument.  I agree on all counts.  I was merely pointing it out that, priced by the guidelines, it's 18k for a continous 'Alter Self'.  Which, admittedly, doesn't make much sense, since you have to make choices for the spell.
> 
> If you (that being, Mistwell as well as anyone that cares) were going to create an item (slotted I guess), that let you 'Alter Self' into one, particular person (that is, all variables of the spell are set in stone and it turns you into a mundane human) with infinite duration, what would you price it at?
> 
> Calypso




Given it is much lower in power than Alter Self.  I'd say 3000 (essentially a continual hat of disguise x1.5), perhaps a bit more depending on how powerful your DM thinks it is to actually transform as opposed to look like you transformed based on an illusion.

Also, Alter Form lets you take on the racial skills, feats, natural armor, etc.. of the creature whose form you are assuming.  If it's just a human, that doesn't mean much.  But if you assume the form of something that would be a higher LA than +0 if that thing were a character, I would raise the price.  For example, if the item were fixed to any of the following, I would charge more (sometimes a lot more) for the item: Avarial (Humanoid Winged Elves), Asabi (Desert-Reptilian Humanoids that have a burrow speed and a 50' move), Locathah (Fish-like Humanoid with a swim speed), Spirit Folk: Mountain (Humanoid with a climb speed), Tren  (Lizard-like Humanoid with a lot of natural armor), or Skulk (Camouflaged Humanoid with a high move silent and hide racial bonus).


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