# Magic Item Cost: Staff of Magi



## dagger (Jul 9, 2003)

What do you think the cost of making a Staff of Magi with out the Spell Resistance would actually cost?


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## Tabarnak Smokeblower (Jul 9, 2003)

> Spell resistance 10,000 gp per point over SR 12




Oops, there is no price for the Staff of the Magi in the SRD.

SR 23 = 110,000 gold

Since its an additional ability, only half of the price is applied while making a Staff of the Magi, so you'd save about 55,000 gold.

I'm at work right now so I won't be getting into the calculations of making a staff 

TS


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## der_kluge (Jul 9, 2003)

From the SRD:

*



			SRD:Staff of the Magi
A long wooden staff, shod in iron and inscribed with sigils and runes of all types, this potent artifact contains many spell powers and other functions. Some of its powers drain charges, while others don’t. The following powers do not drain charges:
detect magic 
enlarge 
hold portal 
light 
mage armor 
mage hand 

The following powers drain 1 charge per usage:
dispel magic 
fireball (10d6 points of damage, DC 13) 
ice storm 
invisibility 
knock 
lightning bolt (10d6 points of damage, DC 13) 
passwall 
pyrotechnics 
wall of fire 
web 

These powers drain 2 charges per usage:
monster summoning IX 
plane shift 
telekinesis (400 pounds maximum weight) 
whirlwind 

The staff of the magi gives the wielder spell resistance 23. If this is willingly lowered, however, the staff can also be used to absorb arcane spell energy directed at its wielder exactly like a rod of absorption. The staff uses spell levels as charges, not as spell energy usable by a spellcaster. If the staff absorbs spell levels beyond its charge limit (50), it explodes as if a retributive strike had been made (see below). Note that the wielder has no idea how many spell levels are cast at him or her, for the staff does not communicate this knowledge as a rod of absorption does. Absorbing spells is risky, but absorption is the only way this staff can be recharged.
Retributive Strike: A staff of the magi can be broken for a retributive strike. Such an act must be purposeful and declared by the wielder. All charges in the staff are released in a 30-foot spread. All within 10 feet of the broken staff take hit points of damage equal to 8 times the number of charges in the staff, those between 11 feet and 20 feet away take points equal to 6 times the number of charges, and those 21 feet to 30 feet distant take 4 times the number of charges. Successful Reflex saving throws (DC 17) reduce damage by half.
The character breaking the staff has a 50% chance (a 01-50 result on d%) of traveling to another plane of existence, but if the character does not (51-100), the explosive release of spell energy destroys her. Only specific items, including the staff of the magi and the staff of power, are capable of a retributive strike.
Caster Level: 20th; Weight: 5 lb.
		
Click to expand...


*
I can work this up using the spell slot item creation system from the Artificer's Handbook, but I can tell you before I even put down the first number that A) a single wizard probably could not create such an item and B) it's going to cost a fortune.  But let's proceed.

Essentially, the staff has the following powers, all operating at caster level 20.:
detect magic, enlarge, hold portal, light, mage armor, and mage hand all castable freely, an unlimited number of times.

dispel magic, fireball, ice storm, invisibility, knock, lightning bolt, passwall, pyrotechnics, wall of fire, and web all consume 1 charge from a common charge pool.  Lightning bolt and fireball have a reduced DC (why, I know not).

monster summoning IX, plane shift, telekinesis (400 pounds maximum weight) - caster level 16, whirlwind 

It also grants spell resistance 23, which you want to exclude.  Then there's a whole bunch of stuff about exploding, and absorption which I'll tackle later.

First, the free spells:
detect magic (0) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level
enlarge (1) (1 min per/lvl)  3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +1 for second effect
hold portal (1) (1 min per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +2 for third effect
light (0) (10 mins per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +13 10 mins per level, +3 for fourth effect
mage armor (1) (1 hr per/lvl) 3 spell trigger use-per +15 1 min per level, +4 for fifth effect
mage hand (0) (concentration) 3 spell trigger use-per, +5 (permanent), +5 for sixth effect

The cost for each effect is spell-trigger based, use-per (unlimited uses), and has a cost based on the spells duration (most of them are +15 for the 1 minute per level spells, but light is 10 mins per level, so has a decreased cost) - it costs less to cast a longer duration spell.  Mage hand is a special cost, since our rules don't cover costs for spells with a duration of "concentration", I ruled that it's essentially permanent, which is the cheapest cost for this type of effect.  The numbers 3, +15, etc., are the number of spell slots required.  A wizard would need to have a total number of spell slots available to cast this many 1st or 0 level spells.  Let's figure up the totals:

(1st level) 3+15+1 + 3+15+2 + 3+15+4 = 61
(0 level) 3+15 + 3+13+3 + 3+5+5 = 47

A wizard (or sorcerer) would need to be able to cast 61 first level spells, and 47 0 level spells in order to create just this part of the item.  A 20th level sorcerer has spells per day of 6/ 6/6/6/ 6/6/6/ 6/6/6 and if he has a 30 Charisma, he's getting bonus spells of 3/3/2/ 2/2/2/ 1/1/1.  Because he can use 2nd, 3rd, etc. spell slots to cast 0 and 1st level spells, let's see if he can actually cast a cantrip 47 times.  6 (0) + 9 (1) + 9 (2) + 8 (3) + 8 (4) +8 (5) = 48.  He could cast 48 0 level spells by exhausting all of his 0, 1st, 2nd, 3rd, 4th, and 5th level spell slots.  That would give him an item that could freely cast, with unlimited uses, light, mage hand, and detect magic.  

Let's exhaust the rest of his spells and see how far he gets.  
1 (5th, left over) + 8 (6) + 7 (7) + 7 (8) + 7 (9) = 30 first level spell slots.  That would be enough to give him the Enlarge effect (19 total spell slots (3+15+1), which would leave him with 11 spell slots.  

As you can see, a 20th level sorcerer, with a 30 charisma would be unable to make such an item in the tradition sense.  In reality, he would have to make it slowly over time.  Adding magic to it over a long period of time.  This would actually increase the cost, because adding magic to an existing magic item costs more than just making it all at once.  Otherwise, he'd need a ton of help.

Let's examine the cost of this portion of the item (assuming that the sorcerer is actually able to create just this portion of the item).

(1st level) 3+15+1 + 3+15+2 + 3+15+4 = 61
(0 level) 3+15 + 3+13+3 + 3+5+5 = 47

The formula is expressed as 10gp (spell level + caster level -1) * (# of spell slots) ^2
working through each spell we get (using a caster level of 20):
10(1+20-1)*(19)^2 +
10(1+20-1)*(20)^2 +
10(1+20-1)*(22)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(18)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(19)^2 +
10(0+20-1)*(13)^2 = 

200*361 + 200*400 + 200*484 + 190*324 + 190*361 + 190*169 = 72,200 + 80,000 + 96,800 + 61,560 + 68,590 + 32,110 = a creation cost of 411,260gp 

So, a 20th level sorcerer with a 30 charisma would be 31 spell slots shy of being able to create just this portion of the item, and it would cost him 411,260gp.  Even if he had a 44 charisma, he'd still be 15 spell slots short.

Now, if you're playing in some kind of uber munchkin game, and you insist on knowing how to create the rest of it, I can go through that, but it's obvious to me that this item is most definitely an artifact, and shouldn't be created through normal means.


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## dagger (Jul 9, 2003)

Wow, thanks for all that work.


Well, the staff is going to be attempted to be made by an epic character later on. He is 18th level right now, I doubt it will happen.


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## HeavyG (Jul 9, 2003)

The reason why the staff is an artifact and isn't priced is because of the unlimited recharging.  _This_ is where you're going to run into some difficulties, IMO.


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## der_kluge (Jul 9, 2003)

Well, our rules handle recharging, and we don't place restrictions on how often something can be recharged.  So, that's not the complex part of it.  There are number of ways it could be created using our system.  It's just the sheer number of effects that it can produce that make it an artifact.  There's nothing hugely powerful about it, other than that.

That and the fact that no single spellcaster could ever create one in one sitting.


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## James McMurray (Jul 9, 2003)

Its not the fact that it can be recharged that makes it an artifact, but the fact that it can recharge itself.


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## AuraSeer (Jul 10, 2003)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> *
> That and the fact that no single spellcaster could ever create one in one sitting. *



Probably true, but the mage's friends can help. A single cohort, apprentice, party member, or other spellcasting friend can basically double the number of available slots per day, and multiple casters can assist.

If the crafter doesn't have enough friends, and can't hire trustworthy NPCs, he can always use item spells. Acquiring that many wands, scrolls, and staffs would increase the cost in time and money, but an epic character has lots of resources to draw on.

An even easier solution would be to craft the item in stages. First just create a staff that can cast _detect magic_ at will; that's easy and doesn't take long. In your next period of downtime, add the _hold portal_ power, and pay the difference in price. Rinse and repeat, until all the powers are in place. You still end up spending the same total time and money, but you don't need to cast every spell every day. (Another advantage is that an interruption would only spoil one stage of the crafting, instead of the whole extensive process.)


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## HeavyG (Jul 10, 2003)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> *Well, our rules handle recharging, and we don't place restrictions on how often something can be recharged.  So, that's not the complex part of it.  There are number of ways it could be created using our system.  It's just the sheer number of effects that it can produce that make it an artifact.  There's nothing hugely powerful about it, other than that.
> 
> That and the fact that no single spellcaster could ever create one in one sitting. *




Key word being "our" rules.

There is no non-artifact magical item in the DMG or any other WotC source (that I'm aware of) that has both charges and unlimited recharging capabilities.

Staves are priced according to 50 charges and then the item is gone.  Removing that restriction makes the pricing wonky so they made it an artifact not to deal with its pricing.  Every other power it has is easy to price.


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## HeavyG (Jul 10, 2003)

James McMurray said:
			
		

> *Its not the fact that it can be recharged that makes it an artifact, but the fact that it can recharge itself. *




Actually, it's the fact that it can be recharged indefinitely without cost and thus has effectively infinite charges over its lifetime.


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## James McMurray (Jul 10, 2003)

Isn't that what I said?


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## dagger (Jul 10, 2003)

How will that book work with 3.5......?




			
				die_kluge said:
			
		

> *Well, our rules handle recharging, and we don't place restrictions on how often something can be recharged.  So, that's not the complex part of it.  There are number of ways it could be created using our system.  It's just the sheer number of effects that it can produce that make it an artifact.  There's nothing hugely powerful about it, other than that.
> 
> That and the fact that no single spellcaster could ever create one in one sitting. *


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## andargor (Jul 10, 2003)

BTW, the number of spell slots needed to create the item can be offset by having several wizards/sorcerers assisting with the creation process, or wands, or scrolls, etc.

Andargor


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## HeavyG (Jul 10, 2003)

James McMurray said:
			
		

> *Isn't that what I said? *




Kinda, yeah.  Consider this as a long-winded "me too".


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## der_kluge (Jul 10, 2003)

dagger said:
			
		

> *How will that book work with 3.5......?
> *




Absolutely.


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## der_kluge (Jul 10, 2003)

I don't know.  To me, an artifact is something like the Mask of Johydee - it has a 'change self' ability, essentially, but no other normal magic can penetrate it - except another artifact (the monocle of bagthalos).  Those things artifacts in my mind.

A staff of the magi is just a horrifically expensive powerful wand.  A rod of absorption is essentially the same kind of thing.  The only difference is that the staff of the magi has a few drawbacks:
The wielder doesn't automatically know the spell level
The staff doesn't "cap off" nicely like the rod does.

But, the staff can be recharged, and the rod can't.

Artificer's handbook rules handle that, and I don't see any reason why the DMG rules couldn't either.  Like I said, I still don't see anything that makes this thing an artifact, other than its absurd cost, and munchkin-like abilities.


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## der_kluge (Jul 10, 2003)

HeavyG said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Key word being "our" rules.
> 
> ...




So essentially the writers got lazy.  I would tend to agree with that statement.


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## AuraSeer (Jul 10, 2003)

andargor said:
			
		

> *BTW, the number of spell slots needed to create the item can be offset by having several wizards/sorcerers assisting with the creation process, or wands, or scrolls, etc.*



Isn't that what I said?


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## andargor (Jul 10, 2003)

AuraSeer said:
			
		

> *
> Isn't that what I said? *




Hmmm. A lot of those these days.

Take it as a "me too", then. 

Andargor


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