# Annual Salary?



## der_kluge (Jul 21, 2005)

I don't really want to get into a discussion about what people make, I'm really only interested in the general overall picture. Otherwise, the thread might get closed if it gets too personal.


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## BiggusGeekus (Jul 21, 2005)

Hmmmm.

You're not trying to figure out who has the most cash so you can kill us and take our stuff, right?  Because, I gotta tell you, I was made using oD&D rules and I'm really not worth that much exp.


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## devilbat (Jul 21, 2005)

Since I work on 100% comisssion basis, my income fluctuates from year to year.  I posted last years total.


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## S'mon (Jul 21, 2005)

Interesting how there are the working stiffs at 25-55 or 65k, the upper-middle-class spike at 75-85, and the 1 fat cat.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

Ok, who makes more than 100k and will you adopt me?


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## Desdichado (Jul 21, 2005)

I make just over 85k, according to my W-2.  Funny how it doesn't _seem_ like a lot of money though; I feel like I'm constantly in a strapped cash flow situation.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I make just over 85k, according to my W-2.  Funny how it doesn't _seem_ like a lot of money though; I feel like I'm constantly in a strapped cash flow situation.




With 4 kids, it's not a shock.


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## S'mon (Jul 21, 2005)

I was happy to answer this poll today as I'm currently in the respectable 45-55K bracket,  this time last year though I was in "under 5K"... not good.


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## diaglo (Jul 21, 2005)

household income or individual?

diaglo " a DINK " Ooi


Dual Income No Kids


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

I answered 35-45k since I make 40k. My wife makes around 44k so we're doing good. I love havning a sugar momma.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> household income or individual?
> 
> diaglo " a DINK " Ooi
> 
> ...




I figured individual and answered as such.


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## freebfrost (Jul 21, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> household income or individual?



I thought it was individual... or else my numbers will be off substantially.

Nice to know there's other DINKs out there too...


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## DaveMage (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> With 4 kids, it's not a shock.




I was thinking that too.

Heck with my two in daycare sucking $12,000 a year from me, not to mention feeding, clothing, entertaining, and diapering them, I can only imagine what 4 would cost.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

freebfrost said:
			
		

> I thought it was individual... or else my numbers will be off substantially.
> 
> Nice to know there's other DINKs out there too...




Ah... I remember those days....


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I was thinking that too.
> 
> Heck with my two in daycare sucking $12,000 a year from me, not to mention feeding, clothing, entertaining, and diapering them, I can only imagine what 4 would cost.




That's one of the reasons I love the Payflex system. My wife gets our daycare costs taken out of her paycheck so we can get reimbursed after we pay. It still costs us close to $5k a year, but it also lowers her pre-tax income since it comes out before tax, so that's a bonus since she makes more than I do.


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## Desdichado (Jul 21, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> household income or individual?



Same thing for me.


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## EricNoah (Jul 21, 2005)

Another DINK here. 

It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...

... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
... how much do you spend on RPGs?
... are RPG products overpriced?
... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?

Stuff like that.


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## Khayman (Jul 21, 2005)

I would have preferred a poll option for 'pittance'.


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## DaveMage (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> That's one of the reasons I love the Payflex system. My wife gets our daycare costs taken out of her paycheck so we can get reimbursed after we pay. It still costs us close to $5k a year, but it also lowers her pre-tax income since it comes out before tax, so that's a bonus since she makes more than I do.




Yeah, I do that too.  I just wish they'd up the amount to $12,000.


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## DaveMage (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.
> 
> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ...




How much free time?  Extremely little.
How much are RPGs?  90% of my disposable income.    
Are RPG products overpriced?  Some of them.
How valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?  What other off time?


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## S'mon (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I answered 35-45k since I make 40k. My wife makes around 44k so we're doing good. I love havning a sugar momma.




Me too.  In London it's vital.     
I too answered for individual income, naturally.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Yeah, I do that too.  I just wish they'd up the amount to $12,000.




That's just the man tryin' to keep you down. 

Does your wife work? I ask because we found out that my wife and I could both get money taken out if we wanted to. Maybe you could get the 5000 taken out of yours and she could get 5000 taken out of hers.


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## DaveMage (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> That's just the man tryin' to keep you down.
> 
> Does your wife work? I ask because we found out that my wife and I could both get money taken out if we wanted to. Maybe you could get the 5000 taken out of yours and she could get 5000 taken out of hers.




Yes she does. 

That's interesting - I'll have to look into that.  For some reason I didn't think we could do that, but I will check on it...


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## EricNoah (Jul 21, 2005)

Khayman said:
			
		

> I would have preferred a poll option for 'pittance'.




_From Rich Guy's Last Will & Testament:_ "To my loyal butler, "You There", for his decades of service, I leave a pittance to be paid in 20 equal installments of one twentieth of a pittance each." _-- Futurama_


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## freebfrost (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?
> ... are RPG products overpriced?
> ... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?



- Is it ever enough?  I can't really complain though - it's pretty well balanced at the moment.

- Around $5,000/year

- Not for the amount of value I gain from them.

- Equal.  While at points in my past it may have been more important, my free-time activities are all equally worthwhile and important at this point in my life.


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## BiggusGeekus (Jul 21, 2005)

I'm in the upper (though not top) of the scale, with a wife and daughter.


> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?

I could use more.


> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?

$40/month but I splurge every now and then.

> ... are RPG products overpriced?

No, they are underpriced.

> ... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?

Very.


-BG


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## Elric (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?




I would say that people are playing the amount of RPGs in their free time such that the value from their RPG time is roughly equal to the value from their other off time.  If that isn't the case, you should be gaming either more or less


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## Desdichado (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?
> ...



That would be interesting!  Here's my data point: 86k a year, I could use a little more free time, but all in all I'm happy, I spend a few hundred ($200-500?) a year on RPG material these days (_way_ down from 4-5 years ago when I was picking up just about anything d20 that was released) and in general I don't think rpg products are overpriced.  My rpg time is very valuable to me, largely because I have _so many_ other off time pursuits (did I mention the four kids?) many of which are not "relaxation based."


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## diaglo (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?
> ... are RPG products overpriced?
> ... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?




i have too much free time.
i spend a good portion of it on RPGs.
yes. always have been. always will be.
not very. much prefer when my wife and i spend time hiking, biking, crosscountry skiing, etc...


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## Kanegrundar (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.
> 
> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ...




I answered the poll with my income not the household (which would put us into the 65K range).  It sounds like alot, but that's before taxes and our neighborhood is going through a period of higher property values (good for when we sell, but not so great right now taxes wise).  

As for Eric's questions:
1. I don't have as much free time as I would like, but I find enough time to do a little work on my campaign settings and play some WoW.
2. Around $2400 a year give or take.  More when I was single and when the D20 boom first hit, but not nearly as much now.  Miniatures from D&D, SW, Mageknight, and a few metal figs get most of my game dollar now.
3. While some books seems to be getting a bit pricey, $25 - 50 for a book I can game with for the rest of my life isn't very expensive at all.
4. My gaming time whether it be RPG's, boargames, or video games is precious to me.  It's time to unwind and not think about anything else but the imaginary challenge in front of me.  However, I find that more of my gaming time is being taken up by work, wedding plans, family stuff (funerals lately), and the occasional Royals game with friends.  I don't get to play much more than the occasional bordgame with my fiancee anyway, so while I miss more focused RPG gaming it's not that big of a deal to me.

Kane


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## EricNoah (Jul 21, 2005)

Well let me see if I can answer my own questions...

_... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?_

I definitely have enough.  I work normal business hours and I don't have to take my job home with me, plus as a teacher I have part or all of the summer off. Compared to any other person I game with I have too much.  No one else in any of my groups has as much free time as I do.  In fact, they have less time to game in the summer, while I have more, which makes gaming less frequent when I have the most time!  Still, I can't complain -- or I'll receive a severe beating from Mrs. Noah. 

A related question, I suppose, would be ... *would you rather have more money or more free time (than you do right now)?  * And right now I'd have to say it's perfectly balanced.  Enough money to live comfortably, and plenty of free time.  I value my free time more than money, in general.

_... how much do you spend on RPGs?_

I would estimate $600 a year though it might be quite a bit more than that.   

_... are RPG products overpriced?_

The only overpriced product is one that I don't use.  Unfortunately that ends up being a fair number of them.  I think I've said it elsewhere -- if I want the product (I'm sure I'm going to use it), then price is (practically) no barrier; conversely, if I'm pretty sure I'm not going to use it, then even free is too much to spend on acquiring it, storing it, keeping track of it, etc.  

_... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?_

My 'actually playing RPGs time' is very valuable to me.  I spend a lot of time on RPGs -- the majority on reading/idea gathering/online discussion; a smaller amount of time on actual prep (though my prep often involves hours of simply mulling things over with no seeming progress, then sudden bursts of writing); and an even smaller amount of time actually playing.  I have other hobbies (exercise, reading) and I'm married so maintaining/participating in/enjoying that relationship is the true center of my life, but with no kids and no other hobby that compares to RPGs (in terms of time spent, money spent, effort expended, pleasure received), the payoff -- actually playing -- is one of the most precious things to me.


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## Wyn A'rienh (Jul 21, 2005)

I'll proudly stand up as one in the nothin' category.  I am a stay-at-home mama to three little girls, and a full time student working on a secondary education english degree.

As to Eric's questions - 
I have just enough free time.  
I don't spend anything on RPGs right now.  One day I will.
I would not say that RPGs are overpriced.  
My RPG time is very valuable.


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## WayneLigon (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.
> 
> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ...




I'm in the 45-55K range. No SO, No kids, no debts save a mortgage.
1. Pretty much from 4pm to 12pm is free time for me, and the entire weekend. It literally takes a signed order from the Governor to make me work over 40 hours a week. That's happened one day in 15 years. And it's still not enough, not really.
2. Around $200 a year, total. If that. I spend more on comics than I do on RPG's because I own most of what I want, now, and most supplements and adventures are useless to me . I only buy the occassional supplement or a new edition of a favored game. Or if it has Monte Cook's name on it.
3. I'm 43. I've become my parents: everything is overpriced to me. Seriously, I think they are to some degree.
4. It rates about 8 or 9 on a 10-point scale mainly because it's also my main social interection time apart from movies and lunches and such that the group does.


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## EricNoah (Jul 21, 2005)

Wyn A'rienh said:
			
		

> a full time student working on a secondary education english degree.




Hey, cool, that's my BS degree, too!


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## elrobey (Jul 21, 2005)

A scale that goes only to 105 is like a core class that only has 10 levels.


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## Arnwyn (Jul 21, 2005)

Yep, a DINK here, as well. I assumed the poll was individual, otherwise we'd be way off it.


			
				EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.
> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?
> ... are RPG products overpriced?
> ... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?



... not enough (but I'm satisfied, when related to how much money I make). I work (mostly) normal business hours, never have to take work home, don't have to business travel anymore, and they don't work me like an animal. I'm at a happy state of equilibrium.

... I'd say about US$400 a year, these days. It's steadily decreasing, and is spent exclusively on Forgotten Realms products, Necromancer Games modules, and Dungeon (and now Dragon, since they added Ed Greenwood) magazine. (I'll also consider any super modules from other companies that are readily available at my LGS or super-discounted on Amazon if I can't get an opportunity to review it before I buy.) That's it. New rules are 'teh suk'.

.... some are, especially if they expect me to buy them without being able to flip through them (ie. crap distribution).

.... it's becoming over-valued. Not enough support for DMs (ie. few modules, poor distribution of modules and map products, etc) makes me question the time I'm spending. I tend to go out and golf more often these days...


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## tarchon (Jul 21, 2005)

Does that assume fair market value for jewels, gems, magic items, and assorted loot?


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## kyloss (Jul 21, 2005)

I'm in the bulgy area of the graph (25-35k)
free time- good but could use a little more- of just less traffic to free up off time, 
average $100 per month though its not spread out that evenly
I dont find rpgs over priced I just wish I could get localy the same prices as online-though thats true for just about everything I buy. though some stuff as of late the value has gone down particularly when it is half rehash of stuff from elsewhere web other books etc.
my rpg time is very valuable to me, it is also a great excuse to get me to socialize and get out from infront of the tv.


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## der_kluge (Jul 21, 2005)

I assumed individual salary, not household income, although that would make an interesting poll as well.

I could do a more complex poll, and we could include individual versus household, and then we could cross-reference that will RPG expenditures per year, and any other relevant factors if we wanted to.

That might make for some interesting marketing data, though I'm not sure what anyone here would actually do with it.


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## drothgery (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.




Single, live alone, income in the $65K-$75K range.



			
				EricNoah said:
			
		

> *It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?*
> Quite a bit; my only non-free time is work.
> ...


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## Nareau (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.
> 
> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ...



I was thinking the same thing, but I'd like to see:
How does the posts/day relate to annual income?

Spider


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## der_kluge (Jul 21, 2005)

Spider said:
			
		

> I was thinking the same thing, but I'd like to see:
> How does the posts/day relate to annual income?
> 
> Spider





Should there be a correlation?  I have a comfy corporate job, and make good money, and I post all day long, because I have nothing to do!


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## Desdichado (Jul 21, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Should there be a correlation?  I have a comfy corporate job, and make good money, and I post all day long, because I have nothing to do!



Same with me.  Although my current job with the company is the cause of that--a year ago, I had much less free time during the day.

Although if the results came out to show that higher income and higher postcount were correlated across the board, and that we weren't just the exceptions, that'd be interesting.  And scary.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Same with me.  Although my current job with the company is the cause of that--a year ago, I had much less free time during the day.
> 
> Although if the results came out to show that higher income and higher postcount were correlated across the board, and that we weren't just the exceptions, that'd be interesting.  And scary.




I thought I was the only one. 

I'm a trainer and there have been times where I've had to travel across the US in 1 month and others, like recently, where I train here and there sporadically.


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## Kanegrundar (Jul 21, 2005)

Same here.  My job isn't a corporate position, but I tend to have some free time during the day to post.  That will likely change soon, so my posting time will be limited to a little bit in the evenings.

Kane


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## Infiniti2000 (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Hey, cool, that's my BS degree, too!



 Isn't English a Bachelor of Arts, not Science?

Anyway, I'm one of the seven (!) in the highest bracket.  Add in my WAHM wife and it's more.  We have one kid.

_... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?_
Not enough.  Could it ever be enough?

_... how much do you spend on RPGs?_
Maybe $200-300 per year.  I can't even conceive of the notion of spending anything remotely resembling $2400 per year, unless people are including travel expenses.

_... are RPG products overpriced?_
No.  Well, unless they suck. 

_... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?_
It is not very valuable compared to spending time with my baby and my wife.  As for other off time, it compares about equally since I pretty much always do stuff with other people, like play duplicate bridge, tournament pool, golf, etc.


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## EricNoah (Jul 21, 2005)

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> Isn't English a Bachelor of Arts, not Science?




The degree in question is not English, it's Secondary Education (English) -- a BS for that one (as least in my case).


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## Wyn A'rienh (Jul 21, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> The degree in question is not English, it's Secondary Education (English) -- a BS for that one (as least in my case).




It will be a BS for me as well.


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## ThirdWizard (Jul 21, 2005)

Currently unemployed, so none. Darn you Bachelor's Degree! It mocks me, it does. Will program for food.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

Hmmm... This brings up another question from me: Do you have a college, Bachelor's, Masters, or PhD?

If so, how does this correlate to your salary? For me, I make more now than I ever did before I got my BS in CompSci. It helped me get into a more corporate environment with more room for growth.


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## Kanegrundar (Jul 21, 2005)

I left college after 3.5 years.  I'm now going back and getting a degree in CompSci, but as far as my career goes, it may not really affect anything if I stay in the FSA (Farm Services Agency) unless I try to get a position running one of the county offices.  Not sure that I even want that job!  I'm mostly just going back to say that I (finally) completed college.

Kane


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## DaveMage (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Hmmm... This brings up another question from me: Do you have a college, Bachelor's, Masters, or PhD?
> 
> If so, how does this correlate to your salary? For me, I make more now than I ever did before I got my BS in CompSci. It helped me get into a more corporate environment with more room for growth.




Bachelor's.

Helped me get my foot in the door where I am - I don't use it at all.

Been promoted 5 times.


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## Desdichado (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Hmmm... This brings up another question from me: Do you have a college, Bachelor's, Masters, or PhD?
> 
> If so, how does this correlate to your salary?



I have an M.B.A.  The degree where you don't really learn anything at all.  It's only purpose is to inflate your salary.


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## reveal (Jul 21, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I have an M.B.A.  The degree where you don't really learn anything at all.  It's only purpose is to inflate your salary.




Apparently it worked. 

I love that FedEx commercial where the woman walks the new guy in the suit down to a computer and tells him to set up shipping and print out the labels. He gets very indignant and says "I have an MBA." She just looks at him and says, "Then I guess I'll have to show you how to do it."


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 21, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Hmmm... This brings up another question from me: Do you have a college, Bachelor's, Masters, or PhD?



I'll be working towards getting a PhD in psychology when I go back to college.


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## GlassJaw (Jul 21, 2005)

> how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?
> ... are RPG products overpriced?
> ... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?




Not enough, but then again, I'm always creating projects for myself.
Probably about $100-150 per month, including minis.
Yes, but I'm a frugal shopper so take that for what it's worth.  I'm not poor, just frugal.    
Very.


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## Ycore Rixle (Jul 22, 2005)

I voted, but I live in New York City, so after the ridiculous amount of taxes and the extremely high cost of living are factored in, it's pretty much like making half what I do in the rest of the country. Yet another reason why a return to the Midwest is looking nicer and nicer.


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## Godofredo (Jul 22, 2005)

about 20.000, no so bad for a third world guy in a third world country  

GODO


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## der_kluge (Jul 22, 2005)

I'm working on a masters of Information Systems. I'm doing it through an online school (yes, it's accredited). It's also taking me forever, and right now I'm currently bogged down in Cost Accounting, which I just despise.

Friends don't let other friends major in accounting.

Although apparently it's the most sought after employee right now - those with accounting backgrounds, because of the Sar-Box requirements companies are having to fulfill for the gov't.


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## der_kluge (Jul 22, 2005)

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> Anyway, I'm one of the seven (!) in the highest bracket.  Add in my WAHM wife and it's more.  We have one kid.




What do you do?


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## Lazybones (Jul 22, 2005)

As a DINK couple, my wife and I do very well. We both just got promoted (wife=new job) so our annual income has jumped approximately 50% in 6 months. 

... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?

Plenty. To save $ during our budget crisis (sort of a meaningless term, it's always in crisis) the State of CA offered a voluntary leave program where you could take an extra day off a month in exchange for a salary cut. I was the first person in a Department of 1400 employees to submit the form after the email was sent out. Between that and my latest seniority bump, I get 5.5 weeks of vacation a year. I take a LOT of 3 day weekends. 

... how much do you spend on RPGs?

If you count CRPGs, maybe $200/year. I'm not buying much paper stuff these days, just the occasional module/supplement that catches my eye. 

... are RPG products overpriced?

Probably, but I have no difficulty affording what I want to buy. I do find myself seeing many products and thinking, "Man, that's expensive." I often have to stop myself from saying in public situations, "When I was a boy, 'X' was only $y dollars!"

... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?

Very, although mine is electronic (2 2-hour campaign sessions of Neverwinter Nights/week, at a scheduled time with long-term groups of players). My wife is very agreeable and doesn't schedule other events during those two slots.


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## johnsemlak (Jul 22, 2005)

Currently we're DINKs, but we're hoping to change that sometime....

In Russia income is normally stated monthly.  I probably take in an average of $2500 per month after taxes.  It varies because I do a lot of private lessons that come and go.  Money goes a bit further in Russia however--I can afford luxuries I wouldn't in the US (like leaving the air con on as much as I want).   Plus we own an apartment and car fully paid.
_
... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?_

Not nearly enough.  Travel time plus working late really cuts into free time.  I get home around 9:00 most days.  Weekends are the only realistic time for RPGing.  I really envy poeple when I see them talking about 'Wednesday RPG night'.

I can't complain though.
_
... how much do you spend on RPGs?_

too much, especially since I have to either pay at  overpriced local shops or order online and pay for shipping.  I've reduced it recently.  probably aroujnd300 per year.

_... are RPG products overpriced?_

I don't think so.
_
... how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?_

It's very valuable mainly because RPG time competes heavily with family time and time doing other entertainment (reading, watching TV and sports).


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## der_kluge (Jul 22, 2005)

_how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?_

I have a lot of free time, really. I have a job where no one really monitors me, and I can't really remember the last time I worked a 40 hour week!  So, I can't complain. I spend my time in the evenings with my family though, for the most part.


_how much do you spend on RPGs?_

Very little, actually. Probably just over $100 a year on stuff. I'm not GM'ing, and that plays a big factor in what I buy. I bought more stuff when I was GM'ing.


_are RPG products overpriced?_

I think some are. 


_how valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?_

I game once a week, and I like that a lot. I was gaming every other week, which is ok, but I'm liking my current schedule with my current group. I have other hobbies, including playing in community bands, so I enjoy that as well. I don't usually spend much time on RPG stuff outside of gaming. At work, I spend a lot of time working on my master's degree, but I also read ENworld quite a bit.


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## barsoomcore (Jul 22, 2005)

My total compensation (or rather, salary plus bonuses but not benefits) is about 86K US.

*how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?*
Not even remotely enough. If I wasn't working a full-time job, I STILL wouldn't have enough, though. Between trying to run the Mini-Games line, trying to run Barsoom, trying to run half-a-dozen other games, TRYING to update my Story Hours with some regularity, trying to update my blog, trying to compose music, trying to drink myself insensible on occasion, trying  to learn how to draw, trying to write free-lance stuff, trying to keep the world safe for if not democracy then at least compassion and basic integrity, and trying to keep my marriage in the happy, blissful state it's been in for nine years...

*how much do you spend on RPGs?*
$50-100 per month. Maybe not that much.

*Are RPG products overpriced?*
Not the ones I publish. 

*How valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?*
LESS valuable than my "keeping my marriage blissful" time. Equally important to pretty much all my other time.


----------



## Aeolius (Jul 22, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Another DINK here.




   I guess that makes me an OILY? One Income, Lotsa Young'uns   This year I am building a house AND adopting internationally...not a big year for savings.


----------



## Treebore (Jul 23, 2005)

I assumed you meant actual take home and put it in the bank, otherwise add me to the 105+ and take me out of the 75 to 85.


----------



## ForceUser (Jul 23, 2005)

Under 5k here, but my full-time job is college student, so I _want_ a low low income. Otherwise, I don't get squat for federal student aid, which is currently paying for my entire upcoming 2005-2006 school year. Glee~!


----------



## Arpad (Jul 23, 2005)

Not enough.


----------



## TheGM (Jul 23, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> It would be really interesting if we could cross-tabulate this poll with some others like...
> 
> ... how much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
> ... how much do you spend on RPGs?
> ...




Three kids, make an obscene amount of money and my wife makes more, live in one of the cheaper parts of the country, and have "just right" freetime, but it is more than most.

- It's never enough. I fill it with side-jobs, gaming, editing for HackJournal, and writing fantasy.
- I would estimate 5K a year, but I really don't track it, and that includes my wife.
- RPG products are sometimes overpriced, but more in the miniature market than books.
- For relaxation and camraderie, my RPG time is more important. But I enjoy about everything I'm involved in, so that's tough to answer. I run 5 steady campaigns (most bi-weekly), and play in another. I wouldn't play that much if it wasn't fun 

I don't know if that helps. I'm one of those people who thinks he's got it made, even if he's not "independently wealthy", so I probably skew the data somewhat. I like to be the PITA


----------



## TheGM (Jul 23, 2005)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> In Russia income is normally stated monthly. I probably take in an average of $2500 per month after taxes. It varies because I do a lot of private lessons that come and go. Money goes a bit further in Russia however--I can afford luxuries I wouldn't in the US (like leaving the air con on as much as I want). Plus we own an apartment and car fully paid.




I haven't been to Russia since '97 or '98, but things were pretty bad then (right when the Ruble was changed so 1 "new ruble" was worth 1000 "old Rubles"). I hope it's looking up, $2500/month is a fortune in most of the country.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 23, 2005)

I'm in the middle of my BA in History and work part-time as a researcher.  All things considered, my $14,000/year or so is pretty nice.  My general goal is to make enough every month to pay the rent, however; our rent just increased (I'm sitting in my new apartment as I type this!!  ) so I'm either going to have to start working more or finding another way to cut some corners.

The Universe is my sugar-daddy, though.    His fat-check pays most of the bills.

I dream of the days when I graduate from college and can have a "real job"... can't wait to be a DINK.


----------



## jgbrowning (Jul 23, 2005)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> It varies because I do a lot of private lessons that come and go.




Do you teach English (EFL) or what subject. If I may be so bold?... 

joe b.


----------



## The_lurkeR (Jul 23, 2005)

Currently I'm an OINK? 
One income no kids, I'm in the middle of the graph. My girlfriend will be starting her new job in a couple months though, and I will join the DINKS.

_How much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?_
Plenty, I don't take my job home with me, and seldom have to travel.

_How much do you spend on RPGs?_
Not much, around a $100 a year I'd guess. Mostly on Dragon and Dungeon Magazines.

_Are RPG products overpriced?_
Not generally. The price of entry is still probably around what it was back when I was buying the box sets as a kid.

_How valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?_
I'd say it's pretty valuable, not sure how to rate it. I don't get to play as often as I'd like though.


----------



## der_kluge (Jul 23, 2005)

I find there to be a diminishing return on salary.  Like, the jump from say, $30k a year to $50k a year is probably huge, the jump from $50k a year to $70k is probaby hardly noticable at all. Anyone else feel this to be true?


----------



## Endur (Jul 23, 2005)

One Income, Two Adults, Two Kids

My fiance spends more in a month than I spend in a year.  I earn more in a month than she earns in a year, so I suppose that makes us even.

How much free time do you have (is it enough, just right, too much)?
too little.

How much do you spend on RPGs?
Not sure.  Maybe $500 a year, including minis, computer games, and D&D stuff.

Are RPG products overpriced?
Not sure.  

How valuable is your RPG time as compared to your other off time?
Not sure.

I strongly recommend getting as many degrees as you can to increase your income stream.  Also, don't forget that many companies and the government will pay the tuition for you to go back to school while working.


----------



## TheGM (Jul 23, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> I strongly recommend getting as many degrees as you can to increase your income stream. Also, don't forget that many companies and the government will pay the tuition for you to go back to school while working.




Read this. Believe this.

My wife and I went back for our Masters degrees at the same time, and our employers picked up the tab for nearly all of it. Even if you don't see a pay raise from it, the investment in your self-esteem is worth it.


----------



## TheGM (Jul 23, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I find there to be a diminishing return on salary. Like, the jump from say, $30k a year to $50k a year is probably huge, the jump from $50k a year to $70k is probaby hardly noticable at all. Anyone else feel this to be true?




Yep. We're to the point where we calculate the amount more per week, compare it to our weekly income, and shrug. It no longer seems to make much difference, even for a large raise. Oddly, we both still want raises though.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 23, 2005)

I spent about 0.105% of my income on RPG stuff last year, which was only ever exceeded by the cost of the trip when I went to GenCon Indy. Free time varies a lot, but it's one of those professional situations where the free time and the job frequently merge.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 23, 2005)

TheGM said:
			
		

> Read this. Believe this.
> 
> My wife and I went back for our Masters degrees at the same time, and our employers picked up the tab for nearly all of it. Even if you don't see a pay raise from it, the investment in your self-esteem is worth it.



There's usually only a minor pay advantage after a masters unless it's a professional degree.


----------



## Altamont Ravenard (Jul 23, 2005)

51K$... canadian. + yearly bonuses.


----------



## Endur (Jul 23, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> There's usually only a minor pay advantage after a masters unless it's a professional degree.




I disagree.  The pay advantage is not always easy to see, but it is there.

There are a lot of jobs out there where they won't even consider you unless you have a masters degree.  Just like there are jobs out there where they won't consider you unless you have a bachelors degree.

This isn't always a written requirement.  But when you meet everyone who works there, and everyone has a masters degree+, you understand.  Its part of the culture.  And it doesn't even have to be a "relevant" masters degree, especially since no degree is directly related to what you do at work.


----------



## Darrin Drader (Jul 24, 2005)

My household is in a transitionary period, so my annual income was much higher than it is this year, and will likely be much higher than it is this year again.


----------



## drothgery (Jul 24, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I find there to be a diminishing return on salary.  Like, the jump from say, $30k a year to $50k a year is probably huge, the jump from $50k a year to $70k is probaby hardly noticable at all. Anyone else feel this to be true?




To some degree, but
- I went from $30K to $50K in far less time than it took me to get from $50K to $70K
- My cost of living went up a lot when I went from $50K to $60K
- The ~$70K I make now has been the result of a few annual raises at the job I started at $60K


----------



## Imruphel (Jul 24, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I find there to be a diminishing return on salary.  Like, the jump from say, $30k a year to $50k a year is probably huge, the jump from $50k a year to $70k is probaby hardly noticable at all. Anyone else feel this to be true?




Yep, very true.

Once I hit six figures, the subsequent increases really had no effect other than to boost my savings. Of course, I'm a one income, one adult household (well, two households in two different countries) so my expenses are fairly low (and many are covered by my companies).


----------



## Zander (Jul 24, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Hmmm... This brings up another question from me: Do you have a college, Bachelor's, Masters, or PhD?
> 
> If so, how does this correlate to your salary? For me, I make more now than I ever did before I got my BS in CompSci. It helped me get into a more corporate environment with more room for growth.



I have a doctorate from Oxford U. I think it made it harder to get into the business job market to begin with as employers found it intimidating. But it didn't faze my current boss who has a couple of degrees from Harvard (though not a PhD). It certainly helped me get my current position. Now that I have considerable business experience, my doctorate grants me additional credibility and gravitas.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 24, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> I disagree.  The pay advantage is not always easy to see, but it is there.



It's not that there isn't a pay advantage, which there obviously is, but that the pay advantage often doesn't balance out the lost income from the period of study, particularly since the lost income is from early in your life when the opportunity cost of not having the money is relatively high. Sometimes a PhD on top of a masters is monetarily advantageous, but it's usually a toss up.


----------



## drothgery (Jul 24, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> It's not that there isn't a pay advantage, which there obviously is, but that the pay advantage often doesn't balance out the lost income from the period of study, particularly since the lost income is from early in your life when the opportunity cost of not having the money is relatively high. Sometimes a PhD on top of a masters is monetarily advantageous, but it's usually a toss up.




It really depends on your field. In a lot of scientific fields, a PhD is almost a necessity for a serious research position. In computer science, advanced degrees are worth very little outside of academia and research-oriented positions (though picking up a Masters in CS is worth something if your undergrad degree isn't in CS). At a lot of medium to large companies, an MBA is nearly a pre-requisite for senior management.


----------



## Endur (Jul 24, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> It's not that there isn't a pay advantage, which there obviously is, but that the pay advantage often doesn't balance out the lost income from the period of study, particularly since the lost income is from early in your life when the opportunity cost of not having the money is relatively high. Sometimes a PhD on top of a masters is monetarily advantageous, but it's usually a toss up.




Well, I'm expecting you to do both.  Work full time and go to school.
No lost income from the period of study.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 25, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> Well, I'm expecting you to do both.  Work full time and go to school.
> No lost income from the period of study.



For a PhD? I don't know what kind of PhD programs you're familiar with, but that's a pretty unrealistic expectation. It's something you can do with a masters, but I've never seen anyone pull that off on the doctoral level, though sometimes you can get away with doing some part-time consulting.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 25, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> It really depends on your field. In a lot of scientific fields, a PhD is almost a necessity for a serious research position. In computer science, advanced degrees are worth very little outside of academia and research-oriented positions (though picking up a Masters in CS is worth something if your undergrad degree isn't in CS). At a lot of medium to large companies, an MBA is nearly a pre-requisite for senior management.



Note that I didn't say a PhD isn't worth doing for some reasons, but those fields where a PhD is a prerequisite just to work in them generally are also not the sorts of fields that one goes into to maximize one's income. If someone's advice is "go back to school to get a PhD so you can make more money" they are smoking crack. Period. If their advice is "go back to school to get a PhD if you want to be a rocket scientist instead of a rocket technician," that's good advice.


----------



## reveal (Jul 25, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> Well, I'm expecting you to do both.  Work full time and go to school.
> No lost income from the period of study.




With the amount of research involved in acquiring a PhD, I'd say that it's impossible to work full time AND go to school for your doctorate. I have 2 friends who are in doctorate programs, 1 an MD and 1 a biochemist and neither of them have full time jobs. The MD is a resident at a hospital in St. Louis and the biochemist does research for Georgia Tech as a lab assistant.


----------



## pogre (Jul 25, 2005)

Free time and quality of family life is very important to me. 7 years ago I closed my law practice and became a high school social studies teacher and athletics coach.  It was the best decision I ever made.

My wife stays at home with our 3 children (soon to be 4). We have paid off all of our debts aside from our house - so we're poor, but happy - which makes us rich


----------



## Endur (Jul 25, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> For a PhD? I don't know what kind of PhD programs you're familiar with, but that's a pretty unrealistic expectation. It's something you can do with a masters, but I've never seen anyone pull that off on the doctoral level, though sometimes you can get away with doing some part-time consulting.




Hmmm.  I meant either a masters level or a doctoral level.  

Yes, pursuing a degree is going to take longer while working full-time.  But it is one way around the loss of income.  

There are tons of people who pursue masters degrees, MBAs, JDs, etc in part time programs.  

PhDs are very individualized in nature and they do not encourage part time study, but there are still some people who pursue them in part time programs.  Especially in fields like computer science where there is a significant pay disparity between grad assistant pay and full time employee pay i.e. would you rather be a full time student/part time employee for 20k a year or full time employee/part time student for 100k+ a year.


----------



## diaglo (Jul 25, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  I meant either a masters level or a doctoral level.
> 
> Yes, pursuing a degree is going to take longer while working full-time.  But it is one way around the loss of income.
> 
> ...




don't forget some higher degrees pay you to go to school. stipend.

it ain't much. but it means you can do your graduate degree without working on something else.

it also means you have to do something for them. like teach a course, write a grant, or other requirement...


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## der_kluge (Jul 25, 2005)

Now I wish I'd staggered the poll choices on out to $200k just to see where those 18 people fall in the salary spectrum. I admit I am a bit surprised to see so many in the 105k+ category.


----------



## diaglo (Jul 25, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Now I wish I'd staggered the poll choices on out to $200k just to see where those 18 people fall in the salary spectrum. I admit I am a bit surprised to see so many in the 105k+ category.





why?

my wife makes that much.

but she is an MD, MPH with 3 specialties (Internal Medicine, Infectious Diseases, and Preventative Medicine)


----------



## reveal (Jul 25, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> why?
> 
> my wife makes that much.
> 
> but she is an MD, MPH with 3 specialties (Internal Medicine, Infectious Diseases, and Preventative Medicine)




I bet you guys wash your hands a *lot*.


----------



## diaglo (Jul 25, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I bet you guys wash your hands a *lot*.



and how. i wash my hands probably 30 times a day at work. and 5 or so more at home.


----------



## DaveMage (Jul 25, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> why?
> 
> my wife makes that much.
> 
> but she is an MD, MPH with 3 specialties (Internal Medicine, Infectious Diseases, and Preventative Medicine)




Holy cow!

Well, considering where you work and her career, if I ever have a question about diseases, I know who to ask...


----------



## reveal (Jul 25, 2005)

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Holy cow!
> 
> Well, considering where you work and her career, if I ever have a question about diseases, I know who to ask...




Or what brand of soap is best at killing germs while still leaving your hands silky smooth.


----------



## Tatsukun (Jul 25, 2005)

I make around 4 MILLION ! !  ...  um ...   yen. 
That's something like 35K in USD

Oh well, it's enough, no kids thank god. Then again, I live in Tokyo, where my annual rent is about 17K USD (roughly half my income)

I hate rent! 

Other questions:
I have a BS (Marketing), and a teaching certificate from Cambridge. 

I teach English at a big University in Tokyo. I don't make too much much money, but I get *23 weeks * of *paid* vacation a year. That's pretty fun. 

I suppose I could work part time during the off time, but who wants to work when you can game?!

      -Tatsu


----------



## The Edge (Jul 25, 2005)

Im not employed, but I get £30 a week form a government  'EMA fund' (Education Maintenence Allowence) just to show up at college which I would do anyway. That converts to $52.3453. Plus theres no tax applyed to it, and I have no major costs/bills/expenses etc.   

ps - I dont know much about the american education system, but I think UK college is different to USA college. Here its curently free optional higher education that goes between leaveing high school and university.

personaly I think that tax money could be spent better, but since refuseing it wont fix that, im not complaining.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 25, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  I meant either a masters level or a doctoral level.
> 
> Yes, pursuing a degree is going to take longer while working full-time.  But it is one way around the loss of income.
> 
> ...



Of course anyone would rather get 100K (which is pretty high for an MS in CS anyway), but I spent a good 8 years in grad school and I never met a single person out of literally hundreds who managed to work a (separate) full time job while in in a PhD program. Most PhD candidates work 50-60 hours a week on classes and research for at least 2-3 years, and often more like 4.
One thing I did consistently observe though is that everybody who did succumb to the temptation to start working full time again after the first couple years (after completing coursework and exams but before completing te dissertation and defense) never finished, or at least didn't finish until they took a long leave.


----------



## Desdichado (Jul 25, 2005)

Tatsukun said:
			
		

> I teach English at a big University in Tokyo. I don't make too much much money, but I get *23 weeks * of *paid* vacation a year. That's pretty fun.
> 
> I suppose I could work part time during the off time, but who wants to work when you can game?!



Holy crap!  Talk about quality of life!  I am a bit envious!


----------



## Desdichado (Jul 25, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I find there to be a diminishing return on salary.  Like, the jump from say, $30k a year to $50k a year is probably huge, the jump from $50k a year to $70k is probaby hardly noticable at all. Anyone else feel this to be true?



I dunno.  I make 86k/year, and I'd certainly notice a big change if I had a 20k bump in salary.  Maybe my numbers are skewed slightly upwards, though--I've got four kids and live in a relatively (although nothing like SoCal or NYC) expensive part of the country.  My threshold for which the diminishing returns kicks on may just be higher.  I can definitely see a picture hovering somewhere between 100k and 110k annually where any more would just increase my saving though.

Although even that's significant, as it could advance my retirement by years when all is said and done.  But in the short term it wouldn't make much difference.


----------



## DaveStebbins (Jul 25, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> For a PhD? I don't know what kind of PhD programs you're familiar with, but that's a pretty unrealistic expectation. It's something you can do with a masters, but I've never seen anyone pull that off on the doctoral level, though sometimes you can get away with doing some part-time consulting.



One of my gaming buddies just got his PhD in Engineering while working full-time as an Engineer. It took him something like 6-7 years, but he did it. So I'm pretty sure it can be done if one really wants to. True, he didn't have as much free time for his wife and kids as he would have liked, but they're both glad he did it (and both glad it's over). I guess it's a matter of deciding one's priorities and sticking with it.

-Dave


----------



## tarchon (Jul 25, 2005)

DaveStebbins said:
			
		

> One of my gaming buddies just got his PhD in Engineering while working full-time as an Engineer. It took him something like 6-7 years, but he did it. So I'm pretty sure it can be done if one really wants to. True, he didn't have as much free time for his wife and kids as he would have liked, but they're both glad he did it (and both glad it's over). I guess it's a matter of deciding one's priorities and sticking with it.



My guess is that he also had a very nice committee chair and an unusually laissez-faire department. Most schools literally have a full-time residence requirement on PhDs. ASU isn't even what I would call a tough school, and all PhD students there have a 1 year minimum full time requirement, plus whatever individual departments want to tack on. 2 years isn't uncommon, and there are usually a lot of obligatory seminars and such involved with that. I could see somebody only doing a year or two full time and then stretching the rest out, but anyone who does a part-time PhD all the way through has had rules bent in their favor. That's not to say it wasn't justified or anything, but it would be extremely exceptional.


----------



## Endur (Jul 26, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> Most schools literally have a full-time residence requirement on PhDs.




I can think of at least two Virginia schools that do not have a full-time residence requirement for a Ph.D. in Computer Science.  Neither Virginia Tech nor George Mason University have such a requirement.  I checked Va Tech recently and GMU several years ago.

But, a one or two year full-time requirement is very easy to satisfy, so I don't see much of a difference between going full time for a year or two and part time for X more years vs. part-time for y years.  As far as I'm concerned, these two scenarios are the same.

And, I would not expect a full-time student to meet part-time students who are pursuing a Ph.D.  Part-time students tend to have work and family priorities that cause them not to spend time with full-time students.  As a part-time student myself, I've met five or so other part-time CS Ph.D. students from various universities in the last eight years.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 26, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> I can think of at least two Virginia schools that do not have a full-time residence requirement for a Ph.D. in Computer Science.  Neither Virginia Tech nor George Mason University have such a requirement.  I checked Va Tech recently and GMU several years ago.
> 
> But, a one or two year full-time requirement is very easy to satisfy, so I don't see much of a difference between going full time for a year or two and part time for X more years vs. part-time for y years.  As far as I'm concerned, these two scenarios are the same.
> 
> And, I would not expect a full-time student to meet part-time students who are pursuing a Ph.D.  Part-time students tend to have work and family priorities that cause them not to spend time with full-time students.  As a part-time student myself, I've met five or so other part-time CS Ph.D. students from various universities in the last eight years.




http://www.vt.edu/academics/gcat/gcaPolicies.html


> Residency Requirements for Ph.D. and Ed.D.
> 
> At least 24 graduate-level credit hours, including no less than 15 hours of course work (not research 7994), must be completed while in residence at the Virginia Tech Blacksburg campus. Students may receive residence credits during the summer sessions, but not during any academic year semester(s) in which they are enrolled for fewer than 6 credits or if they are employed more than one-half time (that is, a maximum obligation external to their academic program of 20 hours a week). The Graduate School may grant policy exceptions to individual degree programs and students.


----------



## Zander (Jul 26, 2005)

Tatsukun said:
			
		

> I teach English at a big University in Tokyo.



Tatsu, 
If you don't mind me asking, which one?

I was a student in Tokyo for six months as part of my doctorate.

Everone else,
Sorry about this OT post.


----------



## reveal (Jul 26, 2005)

Zander said:
			
		

> Everone else,
> Sorry about this OT post.




How dare you post an OT post in the OT forum! Let the flogging commence!


----------



## Endur (Jul 26, 2005)

Tarchon -- Happily, that rule does not apply to me.  CS has an unpublished exception to that rule. 

Not sure how many other schools follow that same sort of policy, where the general rule requires residence, but exceptions are readily made when necessary.

And, as I said before, I really think a rule like that does not matter in the greater scheme of things.  When the average full time Ph.D. program takes 4+ years, a 1 or 2 year full-time requirement is relatively minimal in the greater scheme of things.  Especially since there is nothing to stop you from working full time while taking classes full time for that one or two years residency requirement.


----------



## tarchon (Jul 26, 2005)

Endur said:
			
		

> And, as I said before, I really think a rule like that does not matter in the greater scheme of things.  When the average full time Ph.D. program takes 4+ years, a 1 or 2 year full-time requirement is relatively minimal in the greater scheme of things.  Especially since there is nothing to stop you from working full time while taking classes full time for that one or two years residency requirement.



Aside from (drumroll) reality. Really, you're not doing yourself any service by drastically underestimating how big of an effort that is. I've seen dozens of people do exactly what you're doing (oh, but if I do this and this, and get this exception, and work 100 hours a week for two years, and I heard some friend of a cousin of mine did it while working as a circus juggler...), and 9 times out of 10 they really mess themselves up. Ask anyone else who really has finshed a PhD (there are a lot more "PhD students" around than PhDs, you'll find) and they'll tell you exactly what I'm telling you. It's not a part-time gig that you can do on weekends and between 6 and 10 in the evening. An MS, sure, it's just a fluffed up bachelors degree, but most schools look at PhD programs like Jedi training, and whatever rosy picture the catalog paints takes a back seat to whatever the faculty, and especially your advisor (a.k.a. Yoda), deems to be an appropriate level of committment.


----------



## Voadam (Jul 27, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I find there to be a diminishing return on salary.  Like, the jump from say, $30k a year to $50k a year is probably huge, the jump from $50k a year to $70k is probaby hardly noticable at all. Anyone else feel this to be true?




No. I would say it would have to be significantly higher for a difference to be "hardly noticeable." Going from 100+K to 65-70K is a noticeable drop. Depends on cost of living where you are at, expenses, lifestyle, family situation (single, married, childless, kids) and housing and health expenses as well as comfort level for savings, etc.


----------



## Tatsukun (Jul 27, 2005)

Zander said:
			
		

> Tatsu,
> If you don't mind me asking, which one?
> 
> I was a student in Tokyo for six months as part of my doctorate.
> ...




I teach English at Waseda University. 
 (For people who don't know Japan) 

The school usually considered best is "Tokyo University" (like Harvard I guess)
The second best is "Kyoto University" (Like Yale maybe?)
Third to fifth are a matter of great debate. Waseda is in that group somewhere. Personally, I consider it fourth best.  

And now, back to your regularly scheduled off topic forum...

 -Tatsu


----------



## Tatsukun (Jul 27, 2005)

Double your pleasure, double your post!


----------



## Barendd Nobeard (Jul 27, 2005)

Are we supposed to include the cost of benefits?  My employer has to add in 51% of our salary to the budget for benefits.  So people making 10,000 here actually get 15,100 if you count all the benefits (vacation, sick leave, paid holidays, health insurance, life insurance, employee assistance programs, dental insurance, etc.)


----------



## tarchon (Jul 27, 2005)

Barendd Nobeard said:
			
		

> Are we supposed to include the cost of benefits?  My employer has to add in 51% of our salary to the budget for benefits.  So people making 10,000 here actually get 15,100 if you count all the benefits (vacation, sick leave, paid holidays, health insurance, life insurance, employee assistance programs, dental insurance, etc.)



We get free tea and pop too.


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## Dingleberry (Jul 27, 2005)

Barendd Nobeard said:
			
		

> Are we supposed to include the cost of benefits?



Nope - that's the difference between "salary" and "compensation" - at least in my corporate doublespeak.


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## DaveStebbins (Jul 28, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> My guess is that he also had a very nice committee chair and an unusually laissez-faire department.



I wouldn't know. It's a PhD in Mechanical Engineering from Case Western Reserve University, so it's not an easy degree from a no-name college. Make whatever assumptions or judgements you want.



			
				tarchon said:
			
		

> It's not a part-time gig that you can do on weekends and between 6 and 10 in the evening.



 Sorry, this is _exactly_ what my friend did. It destroyed his time with friends, family, wife and kids, but he did it. And, given that CWRU is 90+ minutes away, he also did a fair amount of traveling, too. Granted, his superiors at his full-time engineering job helped by not signing him up for projects that would have required tons of overtime during the last couple of years he was working on it, but they didn't let him slack off or do school-related work on the job either. We work at the same company, in the same building, so I'm very sure about this part.

I agree that it's not something to be undertaken lightly, and it WILL take a toll on you, your family and your life, but every time you say it _can't_ be done part-time, I'm gonna disagree.

-Dave


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## Tatsukun (Jul 28, 2005)

Dingleberry said:
			
		

> Nope - that's the difference between "salary" and "compensation" - at least in my corporate doublespeak.




But in my world, 'Salary" is the amount of salt you get from the Romans. 

I love Etymology! 

 -Tatsu


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## Zander (Jul 28, 2005)

Tatsukun said:
			
		

> I teach English at Waseda University.
> (For people who don't know Japan)
> 
> The school usually considered best is "Tokyo University" (like Harvard I guess)
> ...



I suppose Keio is third?
I went to Jochi/Sophia which is in the top 10ish. _Monbusho_ has the official rankings of the top universities but I can't remember who is where.

Sorry about this OT post.


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