# [5E] The worst race/class combinations?



## Unknown Chimera (May 7, 2018)

A couple of members in my favorite D&D group have moved away, so I suspect that we'll be doing a new campaign, whether or not we somehow get them involved again (probably through Skype or Roll20 or something). Whenever I make a new character, I go with whatever seems best (in our last campaign I was running a Bard Half-Elf with a bit of everything), but now I want a challenge. A stupid challenge, one that'll probably make my fellow players and our DM go "What the actual f**k are you doing?"
I've heard that a Ranger (Beast Master) is the worst class, and thinking about what might be the worst race for it, I wanted your opinions: What are the worst race/class combinations you people can come up with?
Let me know and I'll challenge my sanity by making up characters with the combinations.


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## CTurbo (May 7, 2018)

The Revised Beastmaster Ranger is not that bad IMO. I would play one for real and probably will eventually. 

As far as bad race/class combination, it's really hard to mess up too bad unless you just get stupid and dump your main stat. Assuming you are going to at least do your best to make your character as good as possible, just pick a race that bump your dump stat and doesn't boost a stat that's important to you. 

Think Gnome Paladin that wears plate, or Dragonborn Wizard. Even then, you're only a single ASI behind the curve and either character would be more than playable.

Let's see. Gnome Paladin 15 Str, 9+1 Dex, 14 Con, 8+2 Int, 10 Wis, 15 Cha. At level 4 you +1 Str and Cha. You won't really have the luxury of getting many feats, but you don't really have a dump stat.

It'd be the same difference with the Dragonborn Wizard. Just start 15 Dex and Int and bump them to 16 at level 4.


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## CTurbo (May 7, 2018)

I just remember an idea I have for a fun "challenge" similar to what you're thinking. I want to make a Lizardfolk Monk. I'd be forced to start with a +2 Dex mod which is not very good for a Monk, and I'd probably spend my first 3 ASIs bumping Dex, but I like the idea of a Lizardfolk Monk that doesn't use a weapon, but bites a lot and has a mean tail whip lol. I'd start with 14 Dex, 16 Con, and 16 Wis. Just a thought.


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## Leatherhead (May 7, 2018)

The thing about the beastmaster is that it's a mechanical mess. But even as a mess, you are still a Ranger, which is rather good because it's a half-caster who can pick up Sharpshooter. So you can still be really strong even if you don't use a full 1/3 of your class.

But as to your question: If you want to go with the least synergistic combination, it's a Kobold Berserker.


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## ccs (May 7, 2018)

Oh, this is easy.

*Race:* Pick the race you dislike (for whatever reason) the most.
*Class:* Pick the class you dislike (for whatever reason) the most.
And just for good measure?  Pick the background & stat generation method you dislike the most.

Combine them.

Congratulations, you are now playing the worst character you could make.  Consider, no matter how effective/ineffective,  what's worse than _playing a character you don't like_?


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## Coroc (May 7, 2018)

You will not get any power gaming Input from me but here are some Combos which i generally hate (purely taste / because i am a grognard):

Halfling / Gnome barbarian  (Lol what, Conan the destroyer .... of the Kobold warrens ?) A barbarian the size of a child is just ridiculous

Dwarf wizard : They are freakin nonmagical !  (Except Derro but these are deviants)

Tiefling Paladin, yeah sure Folks will see the caring saint in you until they see your horns and Superstition kicks in 


Pls. do not take this post to seriously, you are allowed to play whatever you want at your table, but you will not see dual wield ninja hobbit pirates in my campaigns.


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## rgoodbb (May 7, 2018)

Drow Ranger...

But seriously

*Orc Wizard*? -2 Int Starting at 13 int would be a decent disadvantage
*Kenku Wizard* that has not heard the spells being spoken yet. Would they be able to verbalise them? 
*Tiefling Ranger*: Where a class requires two stats and the race has neither, that will be slightly more difficult 

Or are you more looking at a combo that doesn't look/feel right instead of the mechanics?


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## Horwath (May 7, 2018)

rgoodbb said:


> Drow Ranger...
> 
> But seriously
> 
> ...




If you use SCAG then tiefling variants are very good for a ranger. +2 dex instead of +2 cha. And wings instead of racial spells.


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## CTurbo (May 7, 2018)

I've played a Stout Halfling Barbarian and the little guy was a mini beast! You don't get Str but Dex and Con are both important for you so I had a decent AC from the beginning and just went Dex based. 


Orc Wizard may be THE worst but again that is similar to just dumping your primary stat.


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## UngeheuerLich (May 7, 2018)

I went with asimar fighter because I had so good rolled stats that I really did not want to powergame.


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## Paul Farquhar (May 7, 2018)

CTurbo said:


> I just remember an idea I have for a fun "challenge" similar to what you're thinking. I want to make a Lizardfolk Monk. I'd be forced to start with a +2 Dex mod which is not very good for a Monk, and I'd probably spend my first 3 ASIs bumping Dex, but I like the idea of a Lizardfolk Monk that doesn't use a weapon, but bites a lot and has a mean tail whip lol. I'd start with 14 Dex, 16 Con, and 16 Wis. Just a thought.




Lizardfolk monk is actually quite strong, particularly early on, when their unarmed attacks do 1d6 instead of 1d4. And +2 con is great for everyone.

Something to consider when trying to make a bad choice is that small PCs get disadvantage with H weapons. So gnome barbarian with Great Weapon Fighting aint great.

There is a goliath rogue in my group.


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## akr71 (May 7, 2018)

Any anthropomorph (aarakocra, kenku, tabaxi, tortle)   Not my thing.

But worst combination...
goliath rogue, dragonborn rogue, tiefling paladin all sound pretty awkward


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## lowkey13 (May 7, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## jaelis (May 7, 2018)

I think the worst-fit race for a class is the PHB tiefling barbarian. None of the stat bumps have any use, and you can't cast the spells while raging; that is particularly a problem for hellish rebuke since you'd always want to use it in combat. 

But fire resistance is still handy (less so for a bear totem barb though!), and barbarian is a solid class in general. So it's not like a tiefling barbarian would be unplayable.

Regarding the gnome paladin, note that Gnome Cunning + Aura of Protection makes you really hard to effect with magic. That's a mechanical hook you could work with.


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## UngeheuerLich (May 7, 2018)

jaelis said:


> I think the worst-fit race for a class is the PHB tiefling barbarian. None of the stat bumps have any use, and you can't cast the spells while raging; that is particularly a problem for hellish rebuke since you'd always want to use it in combat.
> 
> But fire resistance is still handy, and barbarian is a solid class in general. So it's not like a tiefling barbarian would be unplayable.
> 
> Regarding the gnome paladin, note that Gnome Cunning + Aura of Protection makes you really hard to effect with magic. That's a mechanical hook you could work with.




A tiefling barbarian berserker is not as bad as you might think. +2 Charisma helps you to intimidate or with your level 10 ability later. Using taumaturgy might increase the effect even more. Darkvision is always nice and hellish rebuke helps a bit when yu are not raging, which happens a lot more than one might think.
+1 int is usually a waste, but you can go with it and actually know a bit about nature instead of just surviving in it.

So with standard array, take 15 Str, 14 Dex, Con 13, Cha 14, Wis 10 and int 9 and wear a chain shirt. That will most probably let you play your barbarian well enough. Increase Str everytime you can and if you think you are to squishy increase Con too (which is not the worst idea). At level 12 You already forgot that you started with "terrible" stats. Your 14 Charisma comes in handy before that and if you really want you have some nice multiclass options with warlock or bard or even paladin or sorcerer. I know yu can´t cast spells, but there is a lot to be gained by multiclassing with a spellcasting class, even as barbarian.


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## jaelis (May 7, 2018)

UngeheuerLich said:


> A tiefling barbarian berserker is not as bad as you might think. +2 Charisma helps you to intimidate or with your level 10 ability later. Using taumaturgy might increase the effect even more. Darkvision is always nice and hellish rebuke helps a bit when yu are not raging, which happens a lot more than one might think.
> +1 int is usually a waste, but you can go with it and actually know a bit about nature instead of just surviving in it.
> 
> So with standard array, take 15 Str, 14 Dex, Con 13, Cha 14, Wis 10 and int 9 and wear a chain shirt. That will most probably let you play your barbarian well enough. Increase Str everytime you can and if you think you are to squishy increase Con too (which is not the worst idea). At level 12 You already forgot that you started with "terrible" stats. Your 14 Charisma comes in handy before that and if you really want you have some nice multiclass options with warlock or bard or even paladin or sorcerer. I know yu can´t cast spells, but there is a lot to be gained by multiclassing with a spellcasting class, even as barbarian.




I agree it is not that bad, it is just the worst I can think of. I hadn't thought about Cha and Intimidating Presence, but then, no one said you were playing a berserker... Cha doesn't do much for a totem barb.


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## UngeheuerLich (May 7, 2018)

jaelis said:


> I agree it is not that bad, it is just the worst I can think of. I hadn't thought about Cha and Intimidating Presence, but then, no one said you were playing a berserker... Cha doesn't do much for a totem barb.




Yeah, it is one of the worst... and still good enough. 
Good thing for a system.

Make it bear totem so you have redundand fire resistance.


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## Vymair (May 7, 2018)

A lot of the advantages that Mountain Dwarf brings are wasted on a Monk and you'll have a slower base move but you still end up with +2 Con and Darkvision.  I'll echo others and unless you intentionally sub-optimized your attributes array, you are still going to be effective no matter what race/class combo you play.  I think the Tiefling Barbarian is pretty bad.


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## Warpiglet (May 7, 2018)

Frankly, I love playing against type much of the time.  Strength rogues are cool...a dwarven wizard would be fun.  elven barbarian?  not hard to imagine.

if you just want something inept, as others have said, screw yourself with misplaced scores.

I am not into min maxing to a great extent and do not believe most "broken," "trap" hyperbole...missing out on a +2 to STR is NOT game breaking.  Having higher stats in nonessential areas?  So what?!


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## UngeheuerLich (May 7, 2018)

I can tells that my dex 14/cha 14 arcane trickster bard can pull his own weight in a 2 pc party. He sometimes hits a bit badly but if he connects it is quite devastating.
14 in a main stat (and 12 con on top) allows you to contribute well enough. You just have to use your extraordinary strengths.


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## BookBarbarian (May 7, 2018)

Small race Barbarian can't make the most out of the Reckless Attack GWM combo, though they can still make pretty good barbarians.

It's very hard in this edition to make a character that just complexity sucks, mechanically that is, it's perfectly easy to make a terrible character that will make your DM and party hate you.


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## TiwazTyrsfist (May 7, 2018)

Since only the tiny stat block monster races in volo have stat penalties, pretty much any race/class combo works fine in 5e.  

I've played a High Elf Barbarian, a Goliath Wizard, other things that would be considered 'Off'.

I guess the main things that I'd consider poor choices would be taking a race that gets some default armor bonus (Like Lizard Folk or Tortle) and combining it with a class that gets an armor bonus (Barbarian or Monk) because, officially (in Adventurer's League), you have to Pick one, not combine them.

So, like a Lizard Folk Monk EITHER gets AC 13 + Dex OR AC 10 + Dex + Wis.  Not the AC 13 + Dex + Wis you'd really like it to be.

And this seems bad because basically you're giving up one of the better bonuses from either your race or class.

Kobold Fighter or Barbarian (-2 str, small size so no heavy weapons)
Orc Wizard (-2 int)


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## Paul Farquhar (May 7, 2018)

Meh, that's no different to a dwarf fighter...


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## Slit518 (May 8, 2018)

Be a Half-Orc Wizard or perhaps a Goliath Bard.


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## Wiseblood (May 8, 2018)

Armored gnome strength monk.


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## Oofta (May 8, 2018)

Nobody in their right mind would do a dwarven rogue arcane trickster.  With a mediocre intelligence.  Well except maybe for yours truly.

Instead I give you a forest gnome strength paladin dual wielding rapiers with an owl friend.  I speak of course of Sir McStabsalot.  He may have to be my next character which is probably going to be a half-orc monk that I'm going to run because I have a cool mini.


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## Parmandur (May 8, 2018)

TiwazTyrsfist said:


> Since only the tiny stat block monster races in volo have stat penalties, pretty much any race/class combo works fine in 5e.
> 
> I've played a High Elf Barbarian, a Goliath Wizard, other things that would be considered 'Off'.
> 
> ...



Yeah, the Monk/Barbarian with AC bonus races is probably the worst mismatch (not AL rules, that's just straight PHB AC rules), but even so it is still pretty much impossible be to fail to make a somewhat useful PC unless you really, really sabotage it.


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## UngeheuerLich (May 8, 2018)

Actually to get higher AC than 13+dex needs quite high level. A monk of course needs wis for saving throws and the barbarian con for hp. But you can easily start with 14 or even 12 or 13 in that stat and as barbarian focus on dex as secondary stat instead and as monk you can afford a decent con. I would really not say no to that.


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## Paul Farquhar (May 8, 2018)

Parmandur said:


> Yeah, the Monk/Barbarian with AC bonus races is probably the worst mismatch (not AL rules, that's just straight PHB AC rules), but even so it is still pretty much impossible be to fail to make a somewhat useful PC unless you really, really sabotage it.




Not really, since it means more build freedom not to put points into con/wis.

Barbarians are often better off running around in half plate anyway, unless they inflate dex, want to stealth, or are level 20.

It's the heavy armour classes that really don't synergise with natural armour races (and dragon bloodline sorcerers).


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## AmerginLiath (May 8, 2018)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Lizardfolk monk is actually quite strong, particularly early on, when their unarmed attacks do 1d6 instead of 1d4. And +2 con is great for everyone.
> 
> Something to consider when trying to make a bad choice is that small PCs get disadvantage with H weapons. So gnome barbarian with Great Weapon Fighting aint great.
> 
> There is a goliath rogue in my group.




Don't focus on the goliath rogue's sneak issues, consider how many more sorts of objects he can interact with for free on his turn!


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## TiwazTyrsfist (May 8, 2018)

Also, Goliath have no penalty to hiding.

Goliath have no "Sneak Issue" beyond NOT having a racial bonus to dex.

Despite being 8ft tall, they are Medium.
Also Dwarves despite being as short at 4ft are Medium.

So mechanically, a Goliath can hide and sneak just as easily as a Dwarf...
...regardless of how much sense that does or does not make...



Concept: All Goliath Rogues are actually 2 Dwarven Rogues in a trench coat.


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## BookBarbarian (May 8, 2018)

TiwazTyrsfist said:


> So mechanically, a Goliath can hide and sneak just as easily as a Dwarf...
> ...regardless of how much sense that does or does not make...




There are many large animals, even larger than Goliaths, that sneak quite well. I don't see a problem with a sneaky Goliath.



TiwazTyrsfist said:


> Concept: All Goliath Rogues are actually 2 Dwarven Rogues in a trench coat.




LOL. I wonder how many Halflings would it take?


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## Parmandur (May 8, 2018)

BookBarbarian said:


> There are many large animals, even larger than Goliaths, that sneak quite well. I don't see a problem with a sneaky Goliath.
> 
> 
> 
> LOL. I wonder how many Halflings would it take?



Goliaths are not larger than Tigers, who are most sneaky indeed.


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## lowkey13 (May 9, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## TwoSix (May 9, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> Perhaps the Goliath is just moving so slowly ... so imperceptibly, that the Goliath is invisible?



Yes, the Goliath is quite invisible as long as it isn't eating snacks.


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## doctorbadwolf (May 10, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> No. I will decline that invitation.




Oh come on, Sir Beauregard Cornwellig Franalasis Turnbickel Cormac Catherder and his trusty Steed, Starflower, will be the talk of the town!


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## doctorbadwolf (May 10, 2018)

TiwazTyrsfist said:


> Also, Goliath have no penalty to hiding.
> 
> Goliath have no "Sneak Issue" beyond NOT having a racial bonus to dex.
> 
> ...




Objects are sized in feet, so a Goliath will have a harder time getting concealment than a dwarf will. Size category isn’t all that important. A 4 ft tall gnome and a 4 ft tall dwarf can hide or not hide behind the same low wall.


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## Lenore (Jun 30, 2022)

Unknown Chimera said:


> A couple of members in my favorite D&D group have moved away, so I suspect that we'll be doing a new campaign, whether or not we somehow get them involved again (probably through Skype or Roll20 or something). Whenever I make a new character, I go with whatever seems best (in our last campaign I was running a Bard Half-Elf with a bit of everything), but now I want a challenge. A stupid challenge, one that'll probably make my fellow players and our DM go "What the actual f**k are you doing?"
> I've heard that a Ranger (Beast Master) is the worst class, and thinking about what might be the worst race for it, I wanted your opinions: What are the worst race/class combinations you people can come up with?
> Let me know and I'll challenge my sanity by making up characters with the combinations.



My ranger beast master is the most badass in our whole party, even more so than the barbarian. I've saved the party from a TPK 3 times, Killed 2 dragons, and we are only at level 9. I wouldn't say they are the worst class at all


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## DND_Reborn (Jun 30, 2022)

Ah... I think Vecna was behind this thread necro! 

@Lenore, welcome to the forum! Have a like.


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## Alzrius (Jun 30, 2022)

DND_Reborn said:


> View attachment 252375
> Ah... I think Vecna was behind this thread necro!
> 
> @Lenore, welcome to the forum! Have a like.



Nah, that guy in the picture has two eyes and two hands.


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## Krachek (Jun 30, 2022)

Standard human elemental monk, who else!


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## DND_Reborn (Jun 30, 2022)

Alzrius said:


> Nah, that guy in the picture has two eyes and two hands.



You know, Vecna was around before he lost those.


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## Blue Orange (Jun 30, 2022)

Going to RPGBOT.net and looking at 5e, PHB races with classes that are listed as 'red' (worst option), not using the 'Customizing Your Origins' option (which improves many) include...

Dragonborn cleric, druid, monk, or rogue
Dwarf bard, sorcerer, or warlock
Elf barbarian
Gnome barbarian, cleric, druid
Half-orc artificer, cleric, monk, rogue, sorcerer, warlock, or wizard
Halfling artificer, barbarian, or wizard

Some of these sound kind of interesting from the fluff point of view...imagine a dwarvish bard quaffing ale and spinning epics of the monsters they've fought over the past 300 years, a dragonborn using the spikes on their body in battle, or the half-orc whose mom had a thing for green tusky guys and taught them wizardry...

Using the somewhat antiquated (2017) D&D race/class crosstabs from 538 (yeah, the politics site--https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/is-your-dd-character-rare/), the least common combo is the aasimar ranger, followed by aasimar wizard and druid. Least common combo for each race is aarakocra paladin, goliath wizard, gnome paladin, half-orc wizard, halfling paladin, genasi paladin, tiefling barbarian, dragonborn druid, dwarf sorcerer, half-elf barbarian, elf barbarian, and human druid. A lot of these seem more lore-counterintuitive than necessarily bad mechanically--a goliath wizard benefits from endurance, for instance.


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