# Heroes# 12: Our Father/Dec 2008



## Truth Seeker (Dec 8, 2008)

*Our Father*



Writers:Adam ArmusKay Foster

Stars:Adrian Pasdar (Nathan Petrelli)
Milo Ventimiglia (Peter Petrelli)
Zachary Quinto (Gabriel Gray/Sylar)
Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder Suresh)
Hayden Panettiere (Claire Bennett)
Jack Coleman (HRG/Noah Bennett)
James Kyson Lee (Ando Masahashi)
Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman)
Cristine Rose (Angela Petrelli)
Ali Larter (Tracy Strauss)

Recurring Role:Robert Forster (Arthur Petrelli)
Jimmy Jean-Louis (The Haitian)
George Takei (Kaito Nakamura)
Jessalyn Gilsig (Meredith Gordon)
Blake Shields (Flint)
Brea Grant (Daphne Millbrook)
Kristen Bell (Elle Bishop)
Ashley Crow (Sandra Bennett)
Jamie Hector (Benjamin 'Knox' Washington)

Guest Star:Seth Green (Sam)
Tamlyn Tomita (Ishi Nakamura)
Chad Faust (Scott)
Breckin Meyer (Frack)
Hiro and Claire unite in their bid to stop Arthur by traveling back in time. Peter and the Haitian must face Sylar in order to get to Arthur​


----------



## Krug (Dec 8, 2008)

> Hiro and Claire unite in their bid to stop Arthur by traveling back in time. Peter and the Haitian must face Sylar in order to get to Arthur




Sigh...


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 8, 2008)

Krug said:


> Sigh...




It's alright....  just be greatful that this season is nearly over, which prevents them from having yet another time traveling episode.  However, why they don't just time travel back to Aurther Patrelli's conception date and slip in some Birth Control pills in his mom's drink is beyond me.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Dec 9, 2008)

Live Comentary:

[sblock]

9:00: Save the bike messenger, save the world. Save the Emo, save the world.

9:01: At least no retcon between episodes. Come on Claire, I know your smarter than that.

9:02: Hopefully Masi Oki will get along better with the new writers next season.

9:03: Why are they speaking English. Oh, I get it, so Hiro won't understand.

9:05: How convienient, Hiro's mom has Linderman's power.

9:06: How convienient, Sylar's deserted Island has cell towers.

9:07: Yea, they actually killed someone.

9:08: Comercials and a thought. With Elle dead there is some hope for this episode.

9:09: Comercials and another thought. Go away tumor, go away. Maybe they can still get the tumor that is the writers and the show can be healthy again.

9:11: Arthur is too powerfull, but Peter wasn't?

9:12: Thats right Peter kill Daddy.

9:12: How convienient, Tracy is always on the same side as Nathan. Tracy needs to die as well, she doesn't really serve a purpose.

9:14: As long as it doesm't become Tracy Patrelli.

9:14: 100 Men does not an army make unless you are working the same angle as the Haitian's brother and want to rule a village.

9:16: Good thing the Haitian wiped large chunks of Claire's Mom over the years.

9:17: Great, now you can't lie to Sylar. Boo.

9:19: At least Sylar is back to normal.

9:20: Comercials and a thought. What is Claire's plan?

9:22: Comercials and another thought. I think I am coming down with something. This sucks.

9:23: Just what we need, 100 bug soldiers. Not.

9:24: Save the messenger, save the world. At least Matt and company are back. 

9:25: Matt's power is cooler with sound effects.

9:26: At least Nemesis is thinking.

9:27: Poor Masi Oki.

9:28: I didn't know Noah had that much of a wind wipe as well.

9:29: Just what is Claire's plan? Thats right she is the one who took an unstable energy projector on a plane.

9:30: Comercials and another thought. Yes, I do seem to be coming down with something. Boo.

9:31: Comercials and another thought. Save Keanu, Save the World.

9:33: Is Claire planning on staying in the past for 17 years?

9:34: Oh, I get it, Claire needs to save Claire from future daddy issues?

9:35: 16 eggs and and pound of flour to make four waffles?

9:36 Now just give Hiro the light so we can go back to the future.

9:37: At least Linderman didn't have to kiss people to heal people.

9:38: So I guess its now Save Hiro, save the world.

9:41: Comercials and a thought. So how much will the world change become of this. If they go back will there be two Claires because we are in another timeline? Will both Hiro and  Claire Prime both be catalysts now in the new future?

9:42: Local news trailer: Indiana now officially wants people to not smile for thier driver license photo.

9:45: If Claire is not the catalyst what did Sylar see that was different in her brain. Bad Writers, Bad. Way to mess up time travel stories.

9:47: I thought Sylar got Lie Detection, not mind reading?

9:48: Or Hiro and Claire are now stuck in an alternate future like Peter's Irish Girlfriend. 

9:49: Theve really made things screwy now. 

9:50: Except Arthur is in another timeline.

9:51: Bad Writers, Bad!!!!!!!!

9:52: Comercials and a thought: I can't believe how much they are going to have to use Dues ex Machina next episode to fix things. And the episode started so well too.

9:55: I'm really not looking forward to these last few minutes.

9:56: There will be a fakeout and between episodes retcon still coming, I am sure.

9:57: Just Shoot. The writers so hate us.

9:58: So the haitian can only stop one person at a time now, how convienient.

9:58: And that is the fakeout. Arthur will be back next episode.

9:59: And this is the retcon that will happen.

10:00: Preview: Doesn't really matter.

[/sblock]
This episode started a 7 but ended as a 3. At least next week the pain will end.

Edit: Edited Live


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 9, 2008)

See, I thought this was almost a perfect episode.

I'm glad Kyle Baldwin got a better power this time around.  

I liked Sylar's return to a) serial killer, and b) dark humor.  However, what I also liked was they didn't completely negate his growth this season, especially in regards to Peter.

Peter is, of course, still the moral compass by which the others are judged.  However, I like that he had the guts to fire... albeit a little too late.

This was, for me, the perfect use of time travel, with regards to telling Hiro and Claire's stories.  I thought both were interesting and poignant, and completely believable from the point of Hiro's Mother and HRG.  Both are immersed in worlds where the impossible is possible... so they both accept Hiro/Claire immediately.

Then... they crapped all over that, with Arthur.  Ugh, I almost turned off the TV when that scene on the rooftop happened.  Way to make the whole time travel thing utterly pointless.  Hell, my friend, who likes the show but isn't a fan (and didn't know the Haitian could disable people like that) immediately said to me, "Why didn't Arthur do that in the first place?"  Even he was upset.  _This_ is why the numbers are down... it's _not_ just the hardcore fans complaining, it's the general audience.

Of course, that bullet was not to the back of the head.  Hopefully Sylar got it right.

[EDIT]Matt/Daphne/Ando was cool... I believe Matt is the only one besides Future Peter to have experienced all three modes of Enhanced Travel (Speed, Flight, Teleport).  I liked his line about teleporting.

Also, I can chalk it up to being excited, but Ando should know he doesn't get Time Travel, he gets Red Lightning.  Small continuity thing there.  I was hoping he stopped and came back because he remembered Hiro's warning from the beginning of the season.


----------



## DonTadow (Dec 9, 2008)

This episode reminded me of the recent NBA trade by Detroit of giving away Chauncy Billups for Allen Iverson,  right now it was pretty average, maybe even slightly below average, but in the future it couldn't have made me more happy (other than destroying half the heroes in a comet)

Don't get me wrong, this was a very convulted episode.  Filled with the various inconsistencies (particularrly with time travel) that has made the show incredibly stupid recently.  How does that scene go when sylar is taking from clair healing if claire is not special.  We've never seen Hrg have a hint of recognition of Claire.  How in all the seconds of time does Papa Petrelli find the exact moment Claire and Hiro are at.. or for that matter know that they are back in time?  How does he have such a grasp of the power that he is able to send people through time and space without traveling there himself.  

Then there is the nerfing the Hatian.  We've allways seen his power as a blanket ability. As a matter of fact we've seen him plenty of tim4e including several this season not even know heros are around and nerf their powers.  But for some reason, this time, he has to concentrate (despite having nerfed heros powers whom had just as many (peter, sylar).  )  Then to kick us further in the balls sylar comes in using his powers like ..hatian... what hatian. And, sylar does not even go after the hatian's power (considering how he has some type of mastery over it).  I a glad to see sylar back to being a serial kiler of mutants, but goodness, now he's killing regular old folk, despite (before this seasons many transformations) declaring that the hunger only compulses him to take the power, not kill randomly for no reason. 
I don't even want to mention how silly it is that speedster can travel with two people and not break their molecules apart.  

HOwever, all this said, this sets up the next season without time travel and without the hatian's blanket power.  That I can live ith


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 9, 2008)

All I have to say is this:

[sblock=Sad Truth About Heroes...]
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MpraJYnbVtE]We all know it has all ready happened.[/ame]

I can't wait until 24 begins!
[/sblock]


----------



## Man in the Funny Hat (Dec 9, 2008)

The agony.  They are so cruel.  They keep me coming back with just the faintest glimmer of hope by providing in each episode something that doesn't totally suck but it never gets better.  Please just cancel this show so I can stop watching in agonizing hope...

At least Lost comes back Jan 21, and I still have Life and Eli Stone.


----------



## Darth Shoju (Dec 9, 2008)

I'm pretty much in line with most people here. I thought it was a better episode overall, with Sylar's and Hiro's story lines standing out as the strongest to me. However, the Pa Petrelli moment was really frustrating, particularly when he says to Hiro "Now I will have all your powers..." (or something like that). Didn't he already have his powers? How else would he have gone back in time if he didn't?

Also, is it just me, or was anyone else getting a Captain America vibe from that test they did on the soldier? Of course, based on his personality, he may be more like US Agent than Cap.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 9, 2008)

Darth Shoju said:


> Also, is it just me, or was anyone else getting a Captain America vibe from that test they did on the soldier? Of course, based on his personality, he may be more like US Agent than Cap.




Winter Soldier.


If only he killed Mohinder with that chair...  *Sigh*


----------



## Darth Shoju (Dec 9, 2008)

Relique du Madde said:


> Winter Soldier.
> 
> 
> If only he killed Mohinder with that chair...  *Sigh*




LOL...you mean Spider-Mohinder?


----------



## Felon (Dec 9, 2008)

LightPhoenix said:


> See, I thought this was almost a perfect episode.
> 
> I'm glad Kyle Baldwin got a better power this time around.
> 
> ...



Well, Ando doesn't know that he gets red lightning. Hiro told him that he saw him using red lightning to kill Hiro in some possible alternate future, but obviously Ando rejects that future as being inevitable or even likely. 

Otherwise, I agree with your commentary. A better episode than most for this season. Hiro's inability to communicate with Claire was actually a meaningful plot device. It meant Claire had to play along without the benefit of certainty. And Arthur showing up was a real disappointment. If he was portrayed by an actor with presence, it might actually be spooky that Arthur seems all-knowing and unstoppable. But Robert Forster is the guy you call on to play Joe Sixpack, not the menacing BBEG. There's not much menace there.

And as soon as Hiro gets his memory, he's de-powered, complete with yet another fake-out death.

And speaking of fake-out's, does anyone actually believe Arthur won't be up and around again next episode?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Dec 9, 2008)

Mmmmm, cake!  

6/10 for me.  

Hey, Chuck was great!


----------



## LightPhoenix (Dec 9, 2008)

DonTadow said:


> Then there is the nerfing the Hatian.  We've allways seen his power as a blanket ability. As a matter of fact we've seen him plenty of tim4e including several this season not even know heros are around and nerf their powers.  But for some reason, this time, he has to concentrate (despite having nerfed heros powers whom had just as many (peter, sylar).  )  Then to kick us further in the balls sylar comes in using his powers like ..hatian... what hatian. And, sylar does not even go after the hatian's power (considering how he has some type of mastery over it).




While I don't disagree his power has been written very inconsistent, we actually _have_ seen heroes get around the Haitian's ability - way back in season one, Matt plucks Claire's name from HRG's mind with the Haitian next to him when he's being held, and he gets Primatech's name from HRG as well, giving himself a nosebleed in the process.



> I don't even want to mention how silly it is that speedster can travel with two people and not break their molecules apart.




Um, you're watching a show where people rapidly regenerate, fly, shoot lightning, slow/stop time... sometimes you have to accept things aren't real.


----------



## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

DonTadow said:


> I don't even want to mention how silly it is that speedster can travel with two people and not break their molecules apart.





Yes.  That's the silly part.




Darth Shoju said:


> However, the Pa Petrelli moment was really frustrating, particularly when he says to Hiro "Now I will have all your powers..." (or something like that). Didn't he already have his powers? How else would he have gone back in time if he didn't?





Got that power from Peter, IIRC.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 9, 2008)

Some good parts, some less than good parts. 

But one random thought
[sblock]
Even if Pa Petrelli knows he's not Sylar's father, who is to say Ma Petrelli isn't still the mother?
For that matter, who is to say Pa Petrelli is Peter and/or Nathan's father (adoption, or Ma Petrelli had affair(s)) ?
[/sblock]
Not necessarily likely, but it was just a random thought that popped in my head when I saw that scene between Sylar and Pa Petrelli.


----------



## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

We could use a still from the company to see which characters are left unexplored.  Who has the best photo?


----------



## RangerWickett (Dec 9, 2008)




----------



## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

How recent is that pic?  Did they replace the pic with a new one with an actor other than the one being pointed to as Pa Patrelli?  That doesn't look much like him and I am sure I've seen an episode where the pic they showed had Pa Patrelli clearly shown, and facing forward, IIRC.

Anyway, are there two more company members, the women on the left, who are yet to be utilized in the show?  Is there anyone else down in front on the right obscured by the hand?


----------



## PhoenixDarkDirk (Dec 9, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> 9:06: How convienient, Sylar's deserted Island has cell towers.




There was a caption which stated that Sylar was in Costa Verde.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 9, 2008)

Mark said:


> How recent is that pic?  Did they replace the pic with a new one with an actor other than the one being pointed to as Pa Patrelli?  That doesn't look much like him and I am sure I've seen an episode where the pic they showed had Pa Patrelli clearly shown, and facing forward, IIRC.
> 
> Anyway, are there two more company members, the women on the left, who are yet to be utilized in the show?  Is there anyone else down in front on the right obscured by the hand?




i think Pa Petrelli was always facing sideways (i think, but I could be wrong).

Also, the front row should have 4 people, as I think there are 12 total.  So (left to right) it's the woman, then Charles (the guy who died in season 1 under peter's care) and two others  (or at least one other, I recall a hispanic looking man).


----------



## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

PhoenixDarkDirk said:


> There was a caption which stated that Sylar was in Costa Verde.





A mature Hiro would have left them in a coffin.


----------



## Darth Shoju (Dec 9, 2008)

Mark said:


> Got that power from Peter, IIRC.




That's what I thought, but that means his statement to Hiro doesn't make sense. But really, I guess that isn't a surprise.


----------



## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

Darth Shoju said:


> That's what I thought, but that means his statement to Hiro doesn't make sense. But really, I guess that isn't a surprise.





Hiro may have more powers than he knows.


----------



## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

Here's one I snagged in September of this year, IIRC, but it also shows Pa P sideways.  A better view of some of the others, though.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Dec 9, 2008)

Mark said:


> Here's one I snagged in September of this year, IIRC, but it also shows Pa P sideways.  A better view of some of the others, though.




The image makes you wonder if PA P is talking to some unseen person in the doorway / arch!  Also, who took the pic?  The pic does look like it was taking on the patio overlooking New York but then there are shadows, like PA P, that look like it is on a backdrop.  

Also, we really do not know if Pa P is the time travelling Pa P.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 9, 2008)

Another random point from this episode, we learned how Peter got his scar.


----------



## Simplicity (Dec 9, 2008)

fba827 said:


> Another random point from this episode, we learned how Peter got his scar.




What?  We did?  I missed that one.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 9, 2008)

Simplicity said:


> What?  We did?  I missed that one.




It happened quickly.

When The Haitian's power crapped out Pa Patrelli tried to do the Sylar Buzz Saw attack on Peter which then caused him to fire the gun.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 9, 2008)

Simplicity said:


> What?  We did?  I missed that one.




Maybe I am reading too much in to it but ...
[sblock]
During the showdown between Peter and Pa (and the Haitian), when Sylar walks in and stops the bullet, he also injures Peter -- the closeup on Peter shows a bloody scratch across his cheek right where the scar-to-be is.
Peter, without his healing power (among other powers that he is missing), will have a scar there 
[/sblock]

-- at least that is my presumption based on the placement of where the injury occurred.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Dec 9, 2008)

Relique du Madde said:


> It happened quickly.
> 
> When The Haitian's power crapped out Pa Patrelli tried to do the Sylar Buzz Saw attack on Peter which then caused him to fire the gun.



Have to check but think the scar is going to be on the wrong side of Peter's face!


----------



## fba827 (Dec 9, 2008)

Ah, okay, I could be completely wrong about the scar then.  I was remembering the scar as being in a different position (or I am remembering the episode from Monday incorrectly)... blah, my brain has gone stupider than Flint and Mohinder combined


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 9, 2008)

Hand of Evil said:


> Have to check but think the scar is going to be on the wrong side of Peter's face!





fba827 said:


> Ah, okay, I could be completely wrong about the scar then.  I was remembering the scar as being in a different position (or I am remembering the episode from Monday incorrectly)... blah, my brain has gone stupider than Flint and Mohinder combined






Yeah..  it was hard to tell what exactly happened there since the cut, shot and Sylar's entrance happened pretty quickly.



Ok...  IT WAS Pa Patrelli and the cut was on his cheek not across his face.

NBC' Video Rewind: Heroe's EPISDOE 12

The cut was at 40:25 in the Heroes episode.
A shot of the wound on Peter's face is at 40:36.


----------



## Felon (Dec 9, 2008)

Mark said:


> How recent is that pic?  Did they replace the pic with a new one with an actor other than the one being pointed to as Pa Patrelli?  That doesn't look much like him and I am sure I've seen an episode where the pic they showed had Pa Patrelli clearly shown, and facing forward, IIRC.
> 
> Anyway, are there two more company members, the women on the left, who are yet to be utilized in the show?  Is there anyone else down in front on the right obscured by the hand?



Well, the guy being pointed at has his head turned (apparently, he missed it when the photographer shouted "cheese"). I thought that was supposed to be Linderman. I have recollections that one of the women to his right was visited early in the series (and killed off). 

Honestly though, I think the past of "the company" has been explored sufficiently. We get it. Let's hope they can devise a way for the show to move forward that doesn't involve shadowy conspiracies.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Dec 10, 2008)

Darth Shoju said:


> I'm pretty much in line with most people here. I thought it was a better episode overall, with Sylar's and Hiro's story lines standing out as the strongest to me. However, the Pa Petrelli moment was really frustrating, particularly when he says to Hiro "Now I will have all your powers..." (or something like that). Didn't he already have his powers? How else would he have gone back in time if he didn't?



That was my thoughts, how did he get to the past. Unless that was past Pa Patrelli, so now future pa Patrelli has the all spark. ;]


----------



## Felon (Dec 10, 2008)

Taelorn76 said:


> That was my thoughts, how did he get to the past. Unless that was past Pa Patrelli, so now future pa Patrelli has the all spark. ;]



Well, he has all the powers that Peter had, and Peter had Hiro's powers. It's the same way he got to the outback to mess with Hiro's memories.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Dec 10, 2008)

I think the EnWorld forums are now becoming a place where discussion of Heroes has become more of a game and less an exchange of honest opinion. 

There have been many disappointing episodes of Heroes...but this was not one of them. It was, in my view, one of the strongest episodes of the series, let alone the season.

There seems endless complaint regarding the show’s reluctance to kill off heroes/villains.  Yet this episode, when it was confirmed in a rather forceful and graphic manner that that very thing had occurred...it got no mention here. “Oh well, can’t complain about that this week – need something else to complain about I guess.”

And so on and so on. 

If people’s opinion about the quality of Season 3, Episode 12 comes down to Arthur Petrelli’s appearance on the top of the Devaeux Building...then the show isn’t the thing which is broken around here.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Dec 10, 2008)

Felon said:


> Well, he has all the powers that Peter had, and Peter had Hiro's powers. It's the same way he got to the outback to mess with Hiro's memories.




Exactly. Arthur Petrelli never took Hiro's powers - he took his memories. He did not have to take his power. He already had it from Peter.


----------



## F5 (Dec 10, 2008)

Did Pa petrelli say "Now I will HAVE all your powers", or something more like "Now I will TAKE all your powers"?  I wasn't paying much attention at that point, and I haven't gone back to re-watch.

The whole thing could be explained to an extent.  He already had Time Control and Teleportation from Peter.  He wanted to eliminate Hiro as a threat, so he lobotomized him (reduced to a 10-year-old), then intended to wipe his powers (but got interrupted).  He doesn't want to kill Hiro outright, because he knows Kaito hid the last bit of the formula in a person, somehow, and while he suspects it's Claire he doesn't rule out that Kaito hid it in his own son.  

One problem with Heores is that, if this is what's going on, it's never spelled out explicitly.  It's barely even implied.  You have to follow the show closely in order to puzzle out possible explanations and motives, that a better writing team would make self-evident.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Dec 10, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> I think the EnWorld forums are now becoming a place where discussion of Heroes has become more of a game and less an exchange of honest opinion.
> 
> There have been many disappointing episodes of Heroes...but this was not one of them. It was, in my view, one of the strongest episodes of the series, let alone the season.
> 
> ...




In my commentary I did refer to the good of killing off a character and others complemented making Sylar evil again. I gave the first half a 7/10 myself. I wouldn't call the first half one of the strongest, but it was above average. 

The second half is where it went bad, and it went bad because the writers were inconsistent with past episodes of time travel and time lines. The whole change in the catalyst would have had repercussions on the time line, but it didn't. If the writers hadn't already established that the timeline could be changed it would have been ok, but they have and it isn't. The Haitian was also neutered for story effect and no one learned from the past and figured it was ok to not finish Pa Patrelli off properly.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 10, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> If people’s opinion about the quality of Season 3, Episode 12 comes down to Arthur Petrelli’s appearance on the top of the Devaeux Building...then the show isn’t the thing which is broken around here.





And if your opinion of people around here comes down to their opinion of an episode of a TV show, what does that say, sir?

Please avoid the hyperbole and insulting suggestions.  Failing to agree with you does not make someone else "broken". 

That goes for everyone - this is about a TV show.  There is no accounting for taste.  Different people like different things - if you cannot accept that, please consider posting elsewhere.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Dec 10, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> The second half is where it went bad, and it went bad because the writers were inconsistent with past episodes of time travel and time lines. The whole change in the catalyst would have had repercussions on the time line, but it didn't. If the writers hadn't already established that the timeline could be changed it would have been ok, but they have and it isn't. The Haitian was also neutered for story effect and no one learned from the past and figured it was ok to not finish Pa Patrelli off properly.




You assume that:

1) History has been changed by Hiro and Claire. There is no evidence of this so far.  We do not know that history has been altered in the least from the current time line by their actions. They may always have done what it is that they did, if you follow me.  Moreover, if there was a change in the timeline, that does not mean that it happened in episode #12 in the past; and,

2) That Arthur Petrelli is not dead. I think his body vanishing and the departure of the "Catalyst" into thin air was strong visual evidence that he is, in fact, dead.

In short, the attacks you make are based on assumptions which may be wrong - and probably are.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Dec 10, 2008)

Nope. Not backing down Umbran. There appears to be an epidemic of "piling on" here past the point of reasonableness.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 10, 2008)

Here is a random theory (not necessarily likely, but not necessarily wrong either).
What if Claire never was the catalyst and it was always Hiro?
Fact 1) Claire assumed she was because Sylar said she was special; but maybe Sylar saw something else in her brain and she was wrong about being it
Fact 2) When Arthur was deducing who Kaito gave the catalyst to, he was looking at a folder with both Claire and Hiro's pictures in it; he made a guess of Claire but maybe that was just to send his goons after her while he worked the Hiro angle himself

This would account for the "regular" time line not getting screwed up by the changes down in the time-traveled-past.


----------



## stonegod (Dec 10, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> The second half is where it went bad, and it went bad because the writers were inconsistent with past episodes of time travel and time lines. The whole change in the catalyst would have had repercussions on the time line, but it didn't. If the writers hadn't already established that the timeline could be changed it would have been ok, but they have and it isn't. The Haitian was also neutered for story effect and no one learned from the past and figured it was ok to not finish Pa Patrelli off properly.



Actually, I'm not sure the catalyst was ever given to Claire: Our only assurance of that was Claire assuming it was so (because Sylar said he wouldn't/couldn't kill her). There could be other reasons for that. There could have been a perfectly stable time loop where there was no catalyst in the intervening years.

It also explains why Pa would have had to wait so long in the present, since he knew he needed the powers from Hiro.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Dec 10, 2008)

I don't think anything has yet been changed which has any real significance, with the exception of Sylar's reversion to evil. 

Future Sylar was a good guy and had a son, probably with Elle.  If there has been a change in the timeline, that's the one that has significance.  Future "Good" Sylar destroys Costa Verde and that leads to "full weaponization" of the formula. That event would appear to no longer be in the cards.

So whatever lead to that odd flip-flop and fip-flop back of Sylar's "alignment" is probably the only real event that has significance.  It might be that the scene in the car rental shop with Elle which seemed so utterly random at the time was the product of time-line interference. Not sure, obviously.

If that event was the thing which tipped the balance in favour of Syler "becoming evil", then the resulting death of Arthur Petrelli last night through Sylar might also be key.

We know from how this Chapter began that Future Peter had a scar - and that Future Peter had regained his powers.

So we know that the events of last night, and in particular, the fact that Peter had lost his powers, and that he received a scar was always "supposed" to happen. (Athough, I seem to remember the scar being on the other side of his face.. I may be wrong about that.)

We also know from the fact that Future Peter had his powers that he gets them back at some point. Hence, we know the Catalyst worked and that next episode or a few after the next one, Peter will take the perfected formula and be restored.

What we don't know is how everything goes off the rails. I think that the choice which Peter faces is the one that the Chapter began with.  Averting the future was never about stopping Arthur Petrelli... It just looked that way. It was, in fact, always about stopping *Nathan* Petrelli.

Nathan will have to back down and stop the spread of the formula - or someone - probably Peter - will have to kill him... for the third time.


----------



## RangerWickett (Dec 10, 2008)

So the episode where I decide, "That's it, I ain't bothering watching this junk anymore" turns out to be pretty good.

I enjoyed it, and it told a decent story. Now there were some unfortunate flaws due to idiotic crap that had been written into the show previously (why make Hiro be a 10 year old? where the hell did all this 'catalyst' crap come from?), and due to the fact that the actors playing Tracy and Arthur just don't do it for me at all. But having George Takei on again certainly helped, and overall, it was a good episode.

Therefore, I will ignore all the time paradoxes it caused, because hopefully our long national nightmare of badly written Heroes has ended.


----------



## Umbran (Dec 10, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> Nope. Not backing down Umbran.





Then you may leave the thread.  Have a nice day.


----------



## DonTadow (Dec 10, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> If people’s opinion about the quality of Season 3, Episode 12 comes down to Arthur Petrelli’s appearance on the top of the Devaeux Building...then the show isn’t the thing which is broken around here.



The big bad villian randomly appears at a place in time at the exact spot he needs to be with no knowledge to the audience of how he knows to take some random magical (magic in a show that's first season stuck to science fiction) energy that he somehow knows hiro has.  Then in the future he mixes a magical stew to give powers. In th mean time ma petrelli sends her best agent, the emo Peter to assassinate the man who she thinks will destroy the world.  Once again the hatian's powers are nerfed or increased at the speed of plot and then sylar comes in and does the killing thing because thats what he does.

Right... this episode didn't have any problems. The scenes were HRG was good (as they always are) but stupid Hiro has been done to death.  The last half of the episode just broadcasts in high def the absurd inconsistencies of the show that  will lead to the show's cancelation in the near future. The show's about people with powers, those powers need to be defined and consistant for any audience to buy into the mythos. If they keep changing, disappearing, morphing and twisting it makes for a hard to understand plot and even harder to understand characterization.  Every season has 2 or 3 different versions of the future, which further strangles the writing as they make inconsistencies to fix future inconsistencies.

People, like myself and many on this thread, are just frustrated with the show and can't accept a less than the first season version of it.  I can't look at a crappy inconsisent episode and say ... well those three seens were good so I'll give it an average score.  I need to look at the whole and say, was i fully entertained.  Heck, if i just watched the first 25 minutes, i would give it a 6, but those last 35 ruined the overall show.  I kept asking myself questions, trying to remember things that didn't exist to find some form of reason why things that made no sense were happening


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Dec 10, 2008)

stonegod said:


> Actually, I'm not sure the catalyst was ever given to Claire: Our only assurance of that was Claire assuming it was so (because Sylar said he wouldn't/couldn't kill her). There could be other reasons for that. There could have been a perfectly stable time loop where there was no catalyst in the intervening years.
> 
> It also explains why Pa would have had to wait so long in the present, since he knew he needed the powers from Hiro.




The problems I see with that is that up to this episode Arthur is trying to get Claire because he believes she is the catalyst. Then this episode Hiro is given the catalyst instead of Claire and Arthur is back in the past collecting the catalyst from Hiro. To me it seems we are either in an alternate future where Arthur knows Claire isn't the catalyst or the writers gave some major omnipotence to Arthur and royally screwed up concistency.


----------



## fba827 (Dec 10, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> Then this episode Hiro is given the catalyst instead of Claire and Arthur is back in the past collecting the catalyst from Hiro.




Well, to be fair, we can't specifically say that Arthur went back to that time to get it from Hiro.

He appeared at that time (and, if you think about it what was discussed earlier between HRG/Claire and Kaito/Wife), that was supposed to be the time and place where baby Claire was supposed to get the catalyst.

Hiro was standing there, explaining to Claire that he took the catalyst while Arthur was standing behind him, thus, he heard it all and knew from that info that Hiro had it in him.  So, Arthur could very well have gone back in time to get it from Kaito/HRG/baby Claire, but upon hearing Hiro explain that he had it took it from Hiro instead.

I'm not saying it was necessarily written that way, but I will give it credit for working out that way (on purpose or not).


----------



## Wolv0rine (Dec 10, 2008)

I just really, REALLY feel bad for Hiro.  All the crap his father was talking about him being incompetant, then his mother heals his mind and he makes this grand heartfelt speach about how he CAN protect the catalyst...  and it takes him about 15 minutes to lose it like a worthless punk.  Talk about Epic Fail Mommy.  Poor Hiro.


----------



## Dire Bare (Dec 10, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> Nope. Not backing down Umbran. There appears to be an epidemic of "piling on" here past the point of reasonableness.



I get nervous when people fire back at the mods, but I do feel the same way Steel Wind does . . . _cut & edit:  shouldn't have posted before Umbran asked Steely to can it . . . well, probably shouldn't have posted at all, no sense adding fuel to the fire . . ._


----------



## Dire Bare (Dec 11, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> I don't think anything has yet been changed which has any real significance, with the exception of Sylar's reversion to evil.



  So far, yes.  But remember this Third Dark Future doesn't happen at all!!  All will be saved and restored to normal next episode, the last of the season.  That's how TV, and especially Heroes, works!

Does Peter get his powers back?  Probably, but we actually don't know that yet.  The Dark Future Peter (who is now dead in that Dark Future) perhaps never lost his powers, or did regain them.  He might have even earned his scar in a different way!  But that doesn't mean present day Peter is going to get his powers back.  Although, of course, he probably will.

Although we won't know until next episode, I doubt Arthur will return from the dead once again.  There was a finality to the scene, despite, or perhaps because of, the logical inconsistencies.  There's also a web comic up this week that gives us this scene again from Arthur's point of view . . . he's so proud of Peter!

But never say never in TV land . . . or comic book land . . . especially in TV comic book land . . .


----------



## Staffan (Dec 11, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> The whole change in the catalyst would have had repercussions on the time line, but it didn't.



I wouldn't be so sure. From past time travel on the show, it seems that someone who goes back in time and changes things will return to a future that has been changed, but he himself remains the same. So if Claire was originally the host of the Catalyst, she would *still* be the host since she was out of time when the timeline changed. Now, the Sylar in the new timeline would not have the memories of seeing her as being different, since he was in the timeline when it changed.


----------



## delericho (Dec 11, 2008)

Sadly, I have to be added to the list of those who hated this episode. It seemed calculated precisely to annoy me.

Twice during the first half of the episode, I wanted to shout, "Get on with it!" at the screen. Other than Nathan's conversion to the dark side, it seemed mostly to consist of characters moving around but not really accomplishing anything. Plus, we got more of the Hiro Nakamura character-assassination storyline. Excellent.

Plus, the whole Nathan thing doesn't feel right. Surely he should realise that the answer to bad people with powers isn't to give a whole bunch of other people that you ultimately can't control more powers. That's just going to leave all the same problems in society, only now made even less stable because the power level has gone up. Then there's the whole "I'm taking over"/"Okay then" thing, which was too easy and too quick, especially when Arthur should have gained Matt's mind-control power from Peter. Not to mention Nathan's whole acceptance of Tracy's betraying, rather than firing her on the spot (even if he did switch sides himself, she still went behind his back, thus demonstrating that he can't trust her). So, I didn't much like that.

We then get a whole bunch of character scenes with Claire and her parents, and Hiro and his mother. That was mostly okay - I would have preferred to skip them, but if the show is about characters then we really should see the characters interacting. Plus, if we get to a point where the Claire/HRG issues can be put to bed, that will be a good thing.

So, Hiro gets his memory back. Excellent, we can drop this stupid plotline, get the story moving again. Oh, and he takes the catalyst. Probably not smart, but then he can teleport with a blink, so he's unlikely to be captured and held for long... oh.

In this season, Hiro has managed to lose both halves of the formula to the bad guy, and now has lost the catalyst. In fact, the only time when he hasn't been screwing up really badly is when he was saddled with acting like a child. Yeah, that sucks. (Although, actually, if he was at all smart, Hiro can now save the world in two easy steps. Once he gets off the flagpole, all he needs to do is identify himself to his father, explain just how badly he screwed up, and have his father burn his half of the formula. Problem solved.)

I was fairly stunned, however, when Peter actually shot his father. Bet he's back, though.

Unfortunately, I'm done with this show. As far as I can see, the best possible ending for next week's episode has Hiro waking up in a cold sweat, and then calming down because "it was all a dream". I really hate Reset Button endings, but I think it may be necessary this time.

I'm going to give this show until January to sort itself out. However, there will then be a handful of other shows that I enjoy starting up so I'll be looking to drop some. "Fringe" was on the shopping block, but has recently improved drastically, but if "Heroes" doesn't come together very quickly, it will be gone.


----------



## satori01 (Dec 11, 2008)

Umbran said:


> Then you may leave the thread.  Have a nice day.




Not very moderate.....for a moderator.  Prior post by you was not in the spirit of Solomon either.

Color me disapointed.


----------



## Felon (Dec 11, 2008)

DonTadow said:


> The big bad villian randomly appears at a place in time at the exact spot he needs to be with no knowledge to the audience of how he knows to take some random magical (magic in a show that's first season stuck to science fiction) energy that he somehow knows hiro has.  Then in the future he mixes a magical stew to give powers. In th mean time ma petrelli sends her best agent, the emo Peter to assassinate the man who she thinks will destroy the world.  Once again the hatian's powers are nerfed or increased at the speed of plot and then sylar comes in and does the killing thing because thats what he does.
> 
> Right... this episode didn't have any problems. The scenes were HRG was good (as they always are) but stupid Hiro has been done to death.  The last half of the episode just broadcasts in high def the absurd inconsistencies of the show that  will lead to the show's cancelation in the near future. The show's about people with powers, those powers need to be defined and consistant for any audience to buy into the mythos. If they keep changing, disappearing, morphing and twisting it makes for a hard to understand plot and even harder to understand characterization.  Every season has 2 or 3 different versions of the future, which further strangles the writing as they make inconsistencies to fix future inconsistencies.
> 
> People, like myself and many on this thread, are just frustrated with the show and can't accept a less than the first season version of it.  I can't look at a crappy inconsisent episode and say ... well those three seens were good so I'll give it an average score.  I need to look at the whole and say, was i fully entertained.  Heck, if i just watched the first 25 minutes, i would give it a 6, but those last 35 ruined the overall show.  I kept asking myself questions, trying to remember things that didn't exist to find some form of reason why things that made no sense were happening




Personally, I think the big-picture complaints should be the focus. A lot of the minor things people are going on about are on the nitpicky side, and occlude the major problems. For instance, most character's power aren't defined with any major boundaries, so why should we kvetch when they function in a way we're not familiar with? The Haitian's powers were never well-defined, so what's the big deal with finding out they have limitations? Likewise, how do we know that Arthur's clairvoyance inherited from Isaak via Peter wouldn't allow him to paint a pictur of a past event as well as a future? We haven't seen it happen before, but then again it's not a particularly useful application of that power....unless you're a time traveler. 

The big picture stuff IMO consists of things like the lack of a proactive protagonist. Peter's clueless, Nathan flip-flops, Matt is trying to rise to the occasion but not quite managing. Hiro has become nothing but a fanboy pastiche that's being run into the ground--amnesiafied one minute, depowered the next. Sure, time travel is a plot-busing power, as is immortality and power absorption, so find a permanent way to rein them in rather than these constant stop-gap measures. The eclipse would have been a good way to reboot many characters; their powers fade, and come back changed. In general, the show needs to feel like it has direction. Right now, they're meandering. It feels like they're trying to run out the clock.


----------



## delericho (Dec 11, 2008)

Felon said:


> Likewise, how do we know that Arthur's clairvoyance inherited from Isaak via Peter wouldn't allow him to paint a pictur of a past event as well as a future? We haven't seen it happen before...




Last episode, they found that panel in the comic book that inspired Hiro to travel back in time. That would be a picture of the past drawn by Isaac himself.

What bugged me about Arthur doing what he did was not so much _how_ he did it, but rather that they gave no explanation. We should be getting more scenes like at the end of "It's Coming" (or whatever the episode before the eclipse was) where we see him drawing lots of pictures.

Also, there should probably have been some hints that Arthur was doing this very thing in Isaac's comic book itself. Frankly, a prophetic comic book is rather useless if it, at best, shows events as they are happening - that sketch book should at least give some clue as to what is going to happen next.

But, yes, my problem with the show is mostly based on characters and story, and not the specific ins and outs of how the super-powered individuals so the things that they do.


----------



## Kid Charlemagne (Dec 11, 2008)

satori01 said:


> Not very moderate.....for a moderator.  Prior post by you was not in the spirit of Solomon either.
> 
> Color me disapointed.




Again, in case you hadn't noticed, discussion of moderation in a thread is not allowed.  You have also been threadbanned.


----------



## DonTadow (Dec 11, 2008)

Felon said:


> Personally, I think the big-picture complaints should be the focus. A lot of the minor things people are going on about are on the nitpicky side, and occlude the major problems. For instance, most character's power aren't defined with any major boundaries, so why should we kvetch when they function in a way we're not familiar with? The Haitian's powers were never well-defined, so what's the big deal with finding out they have limitations? Likewise, how do we know that Arthur's clairvoyance inherited from Isaak via Peter wouldn't allow him to paint a pictur of a past event as well as a future? We haven't seen it happen before, but then again it's not a particularly useful application of that power....unless you're a time traveler.
> 
> The big picture stuff IMO consists of things like the lack of a proactive protagonist. Peter's clueless, Nathan flip-flops, Matt is trying to rise to the occasion but not quite managing. Hiro has become nothing but a fanboy pastiche that's being run into the ground--amnesiafied one minute, depowered the next. Sure, time travel is a plot-busing power, as is immortality and power absorption, so find a permanent way to rein them in rather than these constant stop-gap measures. The eclipse would have been a good way to reboot many characters; their powers fade, and come back changed. In general, the show needs to feel like it has direction. Right now, they're meandering. It feels like they're trying to run out the clock.



I do see those as being apart of the overall big problem of the show, don't get me wrong, but this thread is about this episode, so i keep my critisism on this show and how it is an example of the inconsistency all season.  Now, if there was a heroes season 3 thread, my comments and others would be different, but we're talikng about this episode and why it was so horrible.  The problem is, and I think someone touched on it earlier, is that, if your assumptions are correct, then the writers are hoping that we stretch our believablity in order to understand the show. This show won't survive with that kind of hope thinking, because for most of the public they'd sooner flip to MNF rather than try to grapple hook to the logic strongs of the author.  

Foreshadowing is a beautiful thing, because it makes the reader/watcher not feel like the plot hammer isn't too heavy. I thought the first season did a great job of that, but this episode is an example of since, where things happen and at best theres a plot string we're suppose to follow but goes unsaid.  For instance, what would have made that  Arthur scene belieable.  Show me a 2 minute cut of him wanting to know where the catalyst is, then painting its location.  You want to make the nerfing of the hatian seem real. 

Earlier in the season, when we see the flashback of the poisoning. Show how difficult it is for the hatian to shut down arthur.  Heck, have the hatian explain how his powers work.


----------



## Dinkeldog (Dec 11, 2008)

I'm finding an overall different theme to this season.  Previous seasons were about the Heroes and their nemeses and their powers driving things--to the point of Maya coming to New York and Sylar going apeshit trying to learn everything.  This season seems to be more about what makes someone a hero or villain regardless of whether or not they have powers.  It does lead to a lot of fluidity in the powers, especially with Papa Petrelli the Power Stealer on the scene, but it gives some interesting character development, as with everyone's favorite Indian professor.

Otherwise, there are very few people with very well defined powers--Elle, Nathan, Angela, and the Haitian, for example.  (The Haitian's power is basically a shut-down--he can shut down either a power or the conscious brain entirely.)  Of these, the only real primary original character is Nathan.  And with him, his Hero-ness or Villainry isn't driven by his Hero Power, but by his temporal power.  And he's still in flux--he tries to help the Marine understand that having a Power isn't necessarily what's going to get him what he wants.  Then again, Nate's Power is pretty meh.  The real movers and shakers in the Hero world are the ones that have meta-powers--Peter, Papa, Angela, Hiro, Sylar--that affect other people.  Instead, Nate is most interesting because a) he was given his meh-power and b) he's a Senator.


----------



## wolff96 (Dec 11, 2008)

DonTadow said:


> Show me a 2 minute cut of him wanting to know where the catalyst is, then painting its location.  You want to make the nerfing of the hatian seem real.
> 
> Earlier in the season, when we see the flashback of the poisoning. Show how difficult it is for the hatian to shut down arthur.  Heck, have the hatian explain how his powers work.




I really like and agree with the first part -- show, don't tell.  And for god's sake, don't make your AUDIENCE guess to fill in the blanks.  Even having Arthur comment on how he knew when and where to be would be better than him just magically showing up.  The Catalyst as plot macguffin was fine, but let's not see a magical light altering a lab-created formula.  

Which is really fun in and of itself;  how could the catalyst have been a known thing, passed along the family line for a while (as Kaito/Hiro's Mom implied in their conversation), if the formula was created by the Elder Heroes?  Sigh.

The other head-scratcher was the rotating door of "who is the catalyst".  I'm wondering if we're not meant to believe that Claire WAS the catalyst until she and Hiro went back and changed that fact -- though this leads to the unfortunate conclusion that she's STILL the catalyst.

------------------------------------

To comment on the Haitian's powers versus Arthur...  The last time they went head-to-head, Arthur wasn't aware of his presence (mind-reading is a pretty subtle thing to notice that you're missing) until he was already poisoned and dying.

This time around, he was healthy and actively resisting.  That's not to say that the timing wasn't convenient on the Haitian's collapse -- just in time for Sylar to come in and do his thing.  

WHY IN THE WORLD didn't Sylar take the Haitian's power at that point, though?  He was down from the fight with Arthur (temporarily).  Beat him against the walls a bit with TK to make sure he stays knocked out, then can-opener his skull and make yourself TRULY unstoppable.  Come on, Sylar!  Villainy 101, there...

------------------------------------

Finally, my wish for the last episode / next season:
NOBODY rescues Hiro.  He shows up in the future with almost no accent, his sword-skills polished to a razor's edge.

In short, during the 16-year interval to "catch up" to the present day, meek 'current' Hiro becomes bad-ass 'future' Hiro.  

THAT would make me happy.  Which means it won't happen, of course.


----------



## Arnwyn (Dec 11, 2008)

This episode clearly showed me why I always return to keep watching this show... and why I end up loathing it at the same time.

The first three-quarters of this episode was (barring a couple of moments) among the best I've seen this season and reminded me why I liked Season 1 so much. Everything with Hiro, as well as Ando, speed-chick, and Matt was pretty darn good in that last episode.

Then, as another post so eloquently put it - we have a scene which craps all over everything I just saw. Thanks a bunch, Heroes.

And Sylar still sucks this season.


----------



## Xath (Dec 11, 2008)

wolff96 said:


> Finally, my wish for the last episode / next season:
> NOBODY rescues Hiro.  He shows up in the future with almost no accent, his sword-skills polished to a razor's edge.
> 
> In short, during the 16-year interval to "catch up" to the present day, meek 'current' Hiro becomes bad-ass 'future' Hiro.
> ...




I was thinking the exact same thing.  

I don't think Arthur Patrelli is out of the picture.  Sure, he's currently dead.  Claire's been dead before too, and she got over it.   I think the Catalyst leaving his body only proves that he actually died, not that he's going to stay that way.  Take the Haitan away, or remove the bullet from his brain and he'll start to regenerate.  I really hope they take care of him for good, but I've never put too much faith in Peter's intelligence.


----------



## DonTadow (Dec 12, 2008)

wolff96 said:


> Finally, my wish for the last episode / next season:
> NOBODY rescues Hiro.  He shows up in the future with almost no accent, his sword-skills polished to a razor's edge.
> 
> In short, during the 16-year interval to "catch up" to the present day, meek 'current' Hiro becomes bad-ass 'future' Hiro.
> ...



This would be the best ending for this season. Further more, you can add to the Hiro lore with tales of his encounters over the last 16 years filtered throughout upcoming seasons.

It also return that mysterious super hiro that we couldn't wait to see grow up.   

Sadly, the way they've treated Hiro this season, Hiro comes back drenched in urine with a bale of cotton candy screaming the red coats are coming.


----------



## Elodan (Dec 12, 2008)

Arnwyn said:


> This episode clearly showed me why I always return to keep watching this show... and why I end up loathing it at the same time.
> 
> The first three-quarters of this episode was (barring a couple of moments) among the best I've seen this season and reminded me why I liked Season 1 so much. Everything with Hiro, as well as Ando, speed-chick, and Matt was pretty darn good in that last episode.
> 
> Then, as another post so eloquently put it - we have a scene which craps all over everything I just saw. Thanks a bunch, Heroes.




Pretty much sums up my feelings.

Anyone else think 'catalyst' = midochlorians?


----------



## wolff96 (Dec 12, 2008)

Side thought that occurred to me...

It would be an interesting reversal of the relationship if Ando succeeds in getting powers and Hiro stays powerless.  

Those two have always been my favorite pairing on the show, especially since they're such a (deliberate, I'm sure) echo of Primatech's "One of us, one of them" modus operandi.  If suddenly Ando has all the powers and Hiro is left with sword skills...  that would make for an interesting inversion.

AND it would still maintain the echo of Primatech.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Dec 12, 2008)

The only problem with that suggestion is that Ando tends to act wiser then Hiro which would cause him to be totally broken as a character.

Hiro: "Ando!  Sylar killed Mr. Turtlesan!  He now has the power of cute turtle-ness! We must stop him before he kills again!"
Ando: "Why don't we teliport to before he stole most of his powers...  He will then be defenseless against your swordman skills."
Hiro: "We can't.  Heroes don't kill people out of anger.  That is what villains do.  We are not villains, we are heroes.  Batman would never kill the Joker because the joker got him mad..."
Ando: "But he did."
Hiro: "Yes, but non-canon one shot stories doesn't count. "
Ando: *SIGH*


----------



## Plane Sailing (Dec 13, 2008)

Brown Jenkin said:


> This episode started a 7 but ended as a 3. At least next week the pain will end.




My feelings exactly.

I really liked the start, with Claire and Hiro contacting their respective parents. I found Hiro's reunion with his mother especially touching - I loved the acting at that part.

Then it is all tossed in the bin by Arthur magically appearing at the right moment and stealing Hiro's power. Stupid, stupid scriptwriting.

The remains of the show were a huge annoyance - from Peter not taking the shot, to the Haitians lack of ability to do stuff to the extent he normally does. Where is the smiley for 'throws hands up in the air'?

The first part showed how good it _could_ be...


----------

