# Are you ready for some Football?!? (NFL)



## Crothian

The season starts tonight and it should be a good one.  Steelers need to prove they can win and not come down from a the Superbowl High and Miami needs to prove they can beat a good team.  With so many players in new places and places with new coaches, this could be a topsy turvy year.

My odd ball prediction for the Superbowl: KC verse Dallas.  And we will have Arizona and New England loose in the Championships games.  There is a reason for the maddness though besides the teams being good.  KC and Dallas's QB's were each the started replaced after an injury of Superbowl teams.  Bledsoe with New England and Green with the Rams.  The QBs that replaced them (Brady and Warner) would then be losing in the Championships game.  Like I daid, odd ball predicition.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

No


----------



## Crothian

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> No




Then get ready!!  Go get some beers, chicken wings, steaks, brauts, cheerleaders...whatever you need!!


----------



## Hairy Minotaur

I like Cincinnati vs. Carolina for Super Bowl. Cincinnati. beats the Steelers last year if Palmer's leg doesn't break, and Carolina is scary good. I think New England and Seattle lose in the championship games.


----------



## GlassJaw

Yes, yes I am.

(especially since the Red Sox completely fell apart a few weeks ago).


----------



## GlassJaw

Hairy Minotaur said:
			
		

> I like Cincinnati vs. Carolina for Super Bowl. Cincinnati. beats the Steelers last year if Palmer's leg doesn't break, and Carolina is scary good. I think New England and Seattle lose in the championship games.




You heard it here first: Cincy is overrated.  If they went 8-8 or 9-7 and missed the playoffs, I wouldn't be surprised.

It will probably come down to the Pats and Colts again this year.  The only NFC team with a shot is maybe Carolina.


----------



## Infiniti2000

I'm happy to see everyone thinks the Pats will do well enough to make it into the playoffs, but even as a Pats fan, I'm nervous.  They got rid of so many good players that I'm not sure they are Superbowl-quality anymore.  I can't wait to see how some of these players do in the regular season, though.

I'm just hoping that the new rookies (on all the teams) live up to the hype.  As most people, I'm particularly interested in Bush and Young.


----------



## drothgery

AFC Division Winners: NE, Pitt, Indy, KC
AFC Wild Cards: Denver, Cinci

NFC Division Winners: Philly, GB, Tampa, Seattle
NFC Wild Cards: Chicago, Washington

Super Bowl: Seattle over Indy.

Curse? What curse?


----------



## Hairy Minotaur

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> I'm just hoping that the new rookies (on all the teams) live up to the hype.  As most people, I'm particularly interested in Bush and Young.




I've heard so many bad things about Young from the "experts" that he's just not an NFL quarterback, mainly that he can't throw downfield. In College his running ability got him most places and his throws were short little drop passes that his receivers turned into big gains. They likened him to Vick with no arm and that's not good enough.

I want to see Jeff George play at least one series with the Raiders this year, because well, I think it's funny. I don't know how this guy gets so many chances to fail, I just don't get it. 

And While I'd love for my Beloved Steelers to repeat, that's just not going to happen unless the defense plays like the "Steel Curtain" of old.


----------



## drothgery

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> I'm happy to see everyone thinks the Pats will do well enough to make it into the playoffs, but even as a Pats fan, I'm nervous.  They got rid of so many good players that I'm not sure they are Superbowl-quality anymore.  I can't wait to see how some of these players do in the regular season, though.




The Pats are in a division with the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets. It shouldn't take much to win it.



			
				Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> I'm just hoping that the new rookies (on all the teams) live up to the hype.  As most people, I'm particularly interested in Bush and Young.




Bush is the next Marshall Faulk. Young is a slower Mike Vick with a better attitude (which means that he, like Vick, has a top-end of being an average NFL starting QB). But my bet for the guy GM's are kicking themselves over not taking five years from now is Leinart.


----------



## Gansk

drothgery said:
			
		

> The Pats are in a division with the Bills, Dolphins, and Jets. It shouldn't take much to win it.




I think you're underestimating Miami, but we'll get a sense of that very shortly.

I also think Cincy could end up 9-7. They have a brutal schedule. 

Conversely, Seattle already has a lock on homefield advantage throughout the playoffs, thanks to their division opponents.


----------



## Jdvn1

Crothian said:
			
		

> Then get ready!!  Go get some beers, chicken wings, steaks, brauts, cheerleaders...whatever you need!!



I've been ready for the past three or four weeks, but can I have the cheerleaders and the food anyway? 

Oh, and Dallas going to the Superbowl? You've _got_ to be kidding me. The only reason Dallas has a chance to win their division is because it's not a strong division, but don't expect for them to go very far.

But what can I say? I'm a Texans fan, through and through. But I know better than to expect a lot from them.  This season should be better than the last (two or three), but that doesn't say very much.


----------



## Crothian

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Oh, and Dallas going to the Superbowl? You've _got_ to be kidding me. The only reason Dallas has a chance to win their division is because it's not a strong division, but don't expect for them to go very far.




That's my odd ball what if prediction because of the connections of the QBs.  My real feeling is Steelers verse Carolina, but I'm biased and always predict the Steelers.


----------



## Jdvn1

Crothian said:
			
		

> That's my odd ball what if prediction because of the connections of the QBs.  My real feeling is Steelers verse Carolina, but I'm biased and always predict the Steelers.



 That'd be a fun game to watch, at least.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

Crothian said:
			
		

> Then get ready!!  Go get some beers, chicken wings, steaks, brauts, cheerleaders...whatever you need!!




I'll take a large order of cheerleaders.


----------



## JoeBlank

Once I realized what kind of baseball season the Braves were going to have, I decided that I would be satisfied if they would just hang on to a prayer of a chance at least until college and NFL football started.

So college football is under way, and the NFL starts today. And the Braves lost both games of a double-header to the stinking Mets yesterday to put them 7 games out of the wild card hunt.

Yes, I am ready for some football.


----------



## drothgery

Gansk said:
			
		

> I think you're underestimating Miami, but we'll get a sense of that very shortly.




Post-game 1 analysis: I'm not underestimating Miami; they look stuck in the 7-9 to 9-7 zone of mediocrity to me; in the AFC, that means they'll miss the playoffs.



			
				Gansk said:
			
		

> I also think Cincy could end up 9-7. They have a brutal schedule.




Maybe. But great QBs in their prime are worth a lot.


----------



## Captain Tagon

Pittsburgh really impressed tonight, especially Batch's play. Miami fans shouldn't be too disappointed though. If Dante can calm down they could be a threat.


----------



## Ghostwind

For an opening game, this one was quite good. I think Miami will be a real threat if Culpepper can get in sync better. The Steelers should win their division at the very least. I won't be surprised to see them contending for the Super Bowl.

As much of a diehard fan as I am about Kansas City, I don't see them doing well this season. I think they need one more year before they will be ready to make their run. New coach this year and a lot of new players means some reworking of the team. Of course, the other thing that will determine how well they do is whether ornot they can all stay healthy. Something KC hasn't done over the past 2 seasons.


----------



## buzzard

So is anyone else here as amused by what a dolt the Miami coach is? I mean the sillyness he indulged in trying to stretch out his challenge call which gave the Steelers a free touchdown was hilarious. He's whining about it in the news today. 

If I were a Miami fan, I'd me mighty riled with him. 

buzzard


----------



## Dungannon

As much as it pains me to say it, Pittsburgh looked really good last night.  I was hoping for a Miami win but the Steelers defense was very impressive.


----------



## Ghostwind

He's certainly no Don Shula.


----------



## drothgery

buzzard said:
			
		

> So is anyone else here as amused by what a dolt the Miami coach is? I mean the sillyness he indulged in trying to stretch out his challenge call which gave the Steelers a free touchdown was hilarious. He's whining about it in the news today.
> 
> If I were a Miami fan, I'd me mighty riled with him.




I'm going to be a contrarian and say that, even though the call was incorrect and led to a score, and even though Saban clearly wanted to make a challenge and got it in too late,  not challenging the call was the right move. Batch's fumble earlier in the game nonwithstanding, 1st and goal on the 1 or 2 yard line is virtually certain to lead to a touchdown. Conceding the TD then give you more time to work with.

Having said that, terrible clock management seems to be a standard feature of the game these days.


----------



## DaveMage

I have no idea who to pick for the Super Bowl in each conference.

There's no team that stands out right now as being across the board stellar.

I think the Colts will miss Edge more than people think.  The Patriots lost a lot of talent (though they still have Brady, so anything is possible).

The Chiefs should have an awesome offense, but they have to prove they can actually stop the other team from scoring.  (And I'm not sold on their coach.)

In the NFC, I guess Seattle has to be the favorite again.


----------



## Infiniti2000

drothgery said:
			
		

> Batch's fumble earlier in the game nonwithstanding, 1st and goal on the 1 or 2 yard line is virtually certain to lead to a touchdown.



 Especially with this soft Miami defense.  Where was the exalted Zach Thomas on that play?  Wasn't that _his _ man who scored the non-TD?



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Conceding the TD then give you more time to work with.



Yeah, enough time to throw two interceptions.


----------



## drothgery

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> Yeah, enough time to throw two interceptions.




When you're losing by enough that there's no time to win the game, you're going to throw more often, and take more risks throwing into coverage. Both are going to increase the chance of interceptions (and the chance of big plays). When your QB comes from the "throw deep to Moss and pray" school of passing, this isn't a great thing. But I still think another minute on the clock gave the Dolphins a better chance of winning (though not a good one).


----------



## Captain Tagon

But at that point they were only down by four and still had plenty of time to score.


----------



## takyris

I only know that I don't know enough to make any broad statements. Up here in the frozen north, I haven't seen enough preseason stuff to get a handle on who's got what.

I like the Niners and the Seahawks and the Broncos. At least two of those teams have the chance to do well this year.


----------



## Fishbone

Do the 49ers even have a team this year?
As a Vikings fan I can say I wasn't surprised by the blowup Culpepper had in the 4th quarter. He's been screwing us like that for years.
I think Miami is one of the most overrated teams in the league and playoff aspirations rather than the Division game or the Superbowl are more their speed.


----------



## Dungannon

San Fran has some talented individuals, but no way they come close to a playoff spot this year.  They're another 2-3 years away I think.


----------



## Ranger REG

So which team are you picking for NBC's _Sunday Night Football_ (though airs in the afternoon for Hawaii)?

Eli Manning's New York Giants vs. Peyton Manning's Indianapolis Colts?


----------



## Crothian

Colts win easily in that one.


----------



## Alaric_Prympax

I've been waiting for this day for a while.  Holy Season has begun but please pity me-- I'm a Saints fan.    

I'm looking forward to Deuce and Bush to run wild thru defenses thes season but you need an offensive line to do that.  Also we need help at linebacker which through trades we might have gotten a little better so we'll see.  That's why they play the games!

Oh yeah! I'm ready for some football!


----------



## Crothian

The Browns are staking a claim for the first pick in the Draft.  Man, they look really bad.  I mean they look bad for the Browns.


----------



## Captain Tagon

I'm hoping Houston can pull something out. They were my upset pick for the week. And the Patriots need to step things up.


----------



## Crothian

Nice win for the Bengals, not a good lose for the Browns.  I know its still easly in the season, but this Reggie Bush kid might be pretty good.


----------



## Dungannon

Yegods.  Seattle managed to win today, but they sure didn't look very impressive doing it.


----------



## Captain Tagon

For a while there I thought the Bills were actually going to take it. Horribly performance by the Panthers too.

And look, Grossman can pass apparently. Either that or the Packers defense is really shabby.


----------



## trancejeremy

I hope Trent Green is okay. Nasty hit.

More happily, it looks like the Rams have a defense this year. Unfortunately, they seemed to misplace their offense, scoring only 6 field goals.


----------



## Jdvn1

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> I'm hoping Houston can pull something out. They were my upset pick for the week.



Well, they had _one_ good drive...


----------



## Crothian

I really thought Dallas would be better


----------



## Captain Tagon

Crothian said:
			
		

> I really thought Dallas would be better




I don't know if they are bad necessarily, just a lot of people underestimated the Jags.


----------



## Gunslinger

I didn't think the Manning Bowl would end up nearly as close as it did.  Peyton is literally carrying the entire team on his shoulders this year, with hardly any running game or defense to back him up.


----------



## Captain Tagon

It's just disappointing to watch a team beat itself like the Giants did.


----------



## Crothian

With Jacksonville looking good and the Colts looking not as great, I wonder if they can take the division from them.


----------



## LightPhoenix

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> It's just disappointing to watch a team beat itself like the Giants did.




They made some game-killing mistakes, yes, but there were a couple of really bad calls late in the game that hurt them.  Specifically, that pass interference call that was in no way, shape, or form their fault.  If they had been able to keep going on that drive, the game would have ended a lot differently, I think.

That wonky call at the end taking time off the clock rung bogus to me as well, but I don't honestly think it would have mattered either way.  The damage was done earlier in the quarter.

Finally (safe for work),

http://nflrefereeruleshandbook.ytmnd.com/


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> With Jacksonville looking good and the Colts looking not as great, I wonder if they can take the division from them.




As the resident Jags fan, it's my duty to point out that yes, they can.    

Seriously, though, the loss of DE Reggie Heyward is a big blow to the Jags defensive line.

And the cowboys will be fine - as long as they don't have to play in the humidity of Jacksonville every week.  They wilted.


----------



## DaveMage

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> For a while there I thought the Bills were actually going to take it. Horribly performance by the Panthers too.
> 
> And look, Grossman can pass apparently. Either that or the Packers defense is really shabby.




Grossman can most certainly pass.  The only question with him is if he can stay on the field.

If you want proof that he can throw, find a tape of the UF-Maryland bowl game (Spurrier's last as coach of the Gators).   Grossman was throwing 50-yard darts.


----------



## Captain Tagon

The Jags are actually my pick to take the South this year. As long as Leftwich plays smart (though I still like Garrard better), I think they are a much better TEAM than the Colts are currently.

And yeah, that bogus pass interference call hurt the Giants late game. However, they had so many missed oppurtunities earlier in the game that if they'd capitalized on only one or two of them that call wouldn't have made a difference. It's like Seattle in the Super Bolw last year, you have to play well enough that a bad call or two won't make you lose the game.


----------



## loki44

Crothian said:
			
		

> With Jacksonville looking good and the Colts looking not as great, I wonder if they can take the division from them.




I don't know if they'll win the division but they're good for a wildcard spot.  I don't think anybody would want that match-up in the playoffs.  Jax is good, but I think Indy will be more consistent.  

How about those Falcons?  John Abraham pretty much singlehandely erased any doubts I had.  He brutalized Carolina's offensive line.  Delhomme was on the verge of a breakdown.


----------



## Crothian

And Phili is the sole leader in the NFC East.  I point it out since it seems many talking heads picked them last in the division.


----------



## DaveMage

Yay Vikings!  (My pick 'em score just went up by +1.     )


----------



## drothgery

The locals seem to have gotten off to a good start (Chargers 27, Raiders 0). Rivers looked better than I thought he would, but when you only have to throw 11 passes in a blowout win, it's hard to tell if that's a mirage...


----------



## DaveMage

I'll bet the Raiders and the Packers will be battling for the first pick in the draft next year.


----------



## ph34r

drothgery said:
			
		

> The locals seem to have gotten off to a good start (Chargers 27, Raiders 0). Rivers looked better than I thought he would, but when you only have to throw 11 passes in a blowout win, it's hard to tell if that's a mirage...




I'm still trying to get over how Merriman totally owned the Oakland offensive line. The guys a beast. If he plays like that all year then we may see a new sack record.

And about Carolina. Atlanta made em look like a highschool jv team. If Dehlomme can't step it up more than that, they'll never dream of the playoffs.


Teams I was impressed with:

Jacksonville
Minnesota
Baltimore
San Fransisco


Teams I was unimpressed with:

Carolina
Seattle
Indianapolis


----------



## loki44

Oakland fans dress themselves up like a gang of brutish undead biker thugs and then their team gets flattened like a bunch of pansies.  Man, it must be embarassing to put on all that gear and paint only to witness a performance like that.  You gotta like that.


----------



## Dungannon

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I'll bet the Raiders and the Packers will be battling for the first pick in the draft next year.



I give the early edge to Oakland here, at least Green Bay managed to display some semblance of a running game in their lopsided loss.


----------



## Crothian

loki44 said:
			
		

> Oakland fans dress themselves up like a gang of brutish undead biker thugs and then their team gets flattened like a bunch of pansies.  Man, it must be embarassing to put on all that gear and paint only to witness a performance like that.  You gotta like that.




Well, its not like the Raiders just turned bad.  This is the 4th year of them being relaly bad, so I imagine if the fans haven't stopped by now for being embarassed I doubt they will.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> Well, its not like the Raiders just turned bad.  This is the 4th year of them being relaly bad, so I imagine if the fans haven't stopped by now for being embarassed I doubt they will.




Just watching the sideline of the Raiders was telling (although maybe I just caught them at bad times).  No smiles (even at the start of the game), no excitement, no enthusiasm - it seemed really dour.


----------



## DaveMage

Dungannon said:
			
		

> I give the early edge to Oakland here, at least Green Bay managed to display some semblance of a running game in their lopsided loss.




Yeah, Favre is probably worth a couple of wins anyway.  Not sure I could say the same about anyone with the Raiders.


----------



## loki44

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Just watching the sideline of the Raiders was telling (although maybe I just caught them at bad times).  No smiles (even at the start of the game), no excitement, no enthusiasm - it seemed really dour.




Worse than that.  Jerry Porter was cheering for the other team.


----------



## loki44

Crothian said:
			
		

> Well, its not like the Raiders just turned bad.  This is the 4th year of them being relaly bad, so I imagine if the fans haven't stopped by now for being embarassed I doubt they will.





True, but it was the first game of the season.  Monday night spotlight.  High hopes and all.


----------



## DaveMage

loki44 said:
			
		

> Worse than that.  Jerry Porter was cheering for the other team.




Seriously?


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Seriously?




That's what some reports are saying


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> That's what some reports are saying




Wow.  I hope that's untrue.  

Porter may be unhappy but he's being paid a lot of money to be a professional.  If I'm another team, I don't touch someone like that with a 10' pole.


----------



## Ranger REG

Here's a football-related story that nearly shut out one's business in Chicago.

http://www.furninfo.com/absolutenm/templates/News.asp?articleid=6669&z=8
http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...e-furniture,0,7284046.story?coll=chi-news-hed


----------



## LightPhoenix

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Here's a football-related story that nearly shut out one's business in Chicago.
> 
> http://www.furninfo.com/absolutenm/templates/News.asp?articleid=6669&z=8
> http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/...e-furniture,0,7284046.story?coll=chi-news-hed




That is by far one of the dumbest business moves I have ever heard of.  I'm not just saying that because I watched the game either, that is just asking to be kicked in the junk.


----------



## Ranger REG

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> That is by far one of the dumbest business moves I have ever heard of.  I'm not just saying that because I watched the game either, that is just asking to be kicked in the junk.



But as a longtime Bears fan, he's happy they won. Granted, he's out $300,000 ... but he's happy.


----------



## drothgery

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> That is by far one of the dumbest business moves I have ever heard of.  I'm not just saying that because I watched the game either, that is just asking to be kicked in the junk.




Well, that was the first game ever that Farve started where the Packers failed to score. So he probably didn't think there was too much risk involved.


----------



## Infiniti2000

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> That is by far one of the dumbest business moves I have ever heard of.  I'm not just saying that because I watched the game either, that is just asking to be kicked in the junk.



I don't think it was dumb unless he sold more than $300,000 worth of furniture.  Anything above that is a loss.  Sure, he paid tens of thousands of dollars, but the publicity he bought for that was I'm sure WELL worth it.


----------



## Dungannon

It's only the second week of the season, but with 11 intradivisional games today we could start to see some early indications of who's a contender and who's a pretender.  I'm especially looking at the NFC East.


----------



## Crothian

I'm interested if the Cardinals can pullthe upset in Seattle.  Can TB do something after getting killed last week?  Can GB do the same?  And both KC and Denver had high hopes for this season, and both lost opening week.


----------



## Steve Jung

Aw man, the Giants' Tim Carter just got a touchdown on a fumble by Plaxico Burress. PHI 24-NYG 14


----------



## Crothian

The Browns have shown they have talent, actually.  If they can just get the parts moving all at once they might be...dare I say...good!?!    But this game is lost to them...


----------



## Captain Tagon

Wow, go Buffalo. What happened to the "best team in the East" Dolphins?


----------



## Crothian

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Wow, go Buffalo. What happened to the "best team in the East" Dolphins?




While I saw a lot of people that felt they would be improved, I don't recalle anyone saying they were better then the Pats. But my guess is a lot of people thought they would be better because of that winning streak last year.


----------



## drothgery

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Wow, go Buffalo. What happened to the "best team in the East" Dolphins?




They gambled on a QB that made his reputation by lobbing the ball to Randy Moss.


----------



## Captain Tagon

Crothian said:
			
		

> While I saw a lot of people that felt they would be improved, I don't recalle anyone saying they were better then the Pats. But my guess is a lot of people thought they would be better because of that winning streak last year.




Pretty much everything I read, saw on TV, and people I talked to in person thought the Dolphins would manhandle the Patriots this year.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

I'd probably be more than happy to kick Chris Gamble in the junk for his dumb, idiotic, (non-grandma-friendly) stunt that cost Carolina the game today!   

Frankly, I hope the ENTIRE team kicks him in the junk. 

Although the offense needs work so the defense isn't doing all the work. Peppers is certainly a powerhouse and a holy (or is it _un_holy terror) on offenses and, especially, quarterbacks.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Pretty much everything I read, saw on TV, and people I talked to in person thought the Dolphins would manhandle the Patriots this year.





Unless they play the Patriots when it gets cold. Miami can't play when it gets below about 70 degrees F.


----------



## Dungannon

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm interested if the Cardinals can pullthe upset in Seattle.



Well, Seattle's offense tried to keep the Cardinals in it, but Arizona just had to prove they have the more inept offensive line.


----------



## Crothian

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I'd probably be more than happy to kick Chris Gamble in the junk for his dumb, idiotic, (non-grandma-friendly) stunt that cost Carolina the game today!
> 
> Frankly, I hope the ENTIRE team kicks him in the junk.




The coach approved the play, there is a lot of blame to go around on that one


----------



## loki44

drothgery said:
			
		

> They gambled on a QB that made his reputation by lobbing the ball to Randy Moss.




And his ability to run when necessary.  He's a statue now.  

NE looked darn good last night.  Of course it was against the Jets.  Doesn't look like Branch is going to be missed much.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> The coach approved the play, there is a lot of blame to go around on that one




Are we totally sure about that? There was ALOT of discussion from the commentators about that play and whether Coach Fox had planned that move or not...


----------



## Crothian

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Are we totally sure about that? There was ALOT of discussion from the commentators about that play and whether Coach Fox had planned that move or not...




In the post game interviews Coach Fox said he approved it.


----------



## Ghostwind

I see Houston will be in the running for a number one draft pick again this year.


----------



## DaveMage

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> I see Houston will be in the running for a number one draft pick again this year.




The irony in the Houston game yesterday is that David Carr had a higher passer rating for the game than Peyton Manning.

(Shows how valuble that stat is, eh?)


----------



## Ghostwind

He had a higher pass rating because he had to unload the ball quicker lest he get killed. He got sacked something like 9 times didn't he?


----------



## Fishbone

As a Vikings fan, I approved the trick play. Longwell and Sharper, playing good as Vikings. Thats a coup baby!
DEATH TO THE CHEESEHEADS!


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> In the post game interviews Coach Fox said he approved it.




Ok. Just saw that on the news a minute ago. Still a hair-brained idea, IMO.


----------



## Crothian

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Ok. Just saw that on the news a minute ago. Still a hair-brained idea, IMO.




If it worked, Fox would be considered a hero and you'd be shouting his praises.


----------



## DaveMage

Jags-Steelers slugfest in 2 hours...

Doesn't get any better than this.


----------



## Captain Tagon

loki44 said:
			
		

> NE looked darn good last night.  Of course it was against the Jets.  Doesn't look like Branch is going to be missed much.





The Patriots looked pretty week to me. A close one with the Bills, and then a close one with the Jets. Discounting how Miami is playing, the AFC East is pretty interesting now.


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Jags-Steelers slugfest in 2 hours...
> 
> Doesn't get any better than this.




Ya, the one team the Steelers always seem to have problems with.....


----------



## Crothian

and the problems continue.....


----------



## Captain Tagon

Looks like the Jags might be for real.


----------



## Crothian

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Looks like the Jags might be for real.




Why would you think otherwise?  THey did go 12-4 laswt year and they did beat the Steelers and the Seahawks last year.


----------



## Captain Tagon

Actually I've always thought they were a legit team. They just don't get much credit. I think the past two weeks have shown everyone that they are actually a contender in the NFL.


----------



## DaveMage

Yay Jags!

Their biggest test of the season is this upcoming Sunday - in Indy.

If they can beat the Colts in Indy on a short week, then they should be favored to win every game for the rest of the year.  (I'm not sure they can do it, though, as Indy is very, very good.)


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> If they can beat the Colts in Indy on a short week, then they should be favored to win every game for the rest of the year.  (I'm not sure they can do it, though, as Indy is very, very good.)




Indy is having a worse time running the ball and thew Jags should be able to pretty much shut that down.  Manning is a very good QB but get rid of the play action pass threat and the Jags have a chance.


----------



## Aurora

I think that P. Manning is gonna end up being another Dan Marino. Poor guy. 
Go Chargers! 2-0 baby!


----------



## Jdvn1

Someone pointed out to me that the two worst defenses in the league so far have played against the same two teams. Do the Texans have a chance this weekend?


----------



## Dungannon

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> Do the Texans have a chance this weekend?



Of course they have a chance.  Although if any defense can make Washington's offense look adequate it's the Texans'.


----------



## Ghostwind

Washington's TE just might get some serious yardage this week. Be very good for my fantasy team.


----------



## DaveMage

Both Houston and Washington are desparate for a win - should be interesting.


----------



## Dungannon

And living in MD I get to watch this titanic struggle.  The real show begins at 4:15, though, when the Giants take on the Seahawks.  Let's see if the crowd can induce eleven false starts again.


----------



## Captain Tagon

Wow, the Jaguars have 105 yards rushing in one quarter.


----------



## Dungannon

The Seahawks' offense has officially found its stride.  They're making a statement that they're still the best team in the NFC.


----------



## drothgery

Dungannon said:
			
		

> The Seahawks' offense has officially found its stride.  They're making a statement that they're still the best team in the NFC.




Quite frankly, anyone who didn't think that going into the year put way too much faith in curses (or certain NFC East or NFC South teams). They've got the most talent, and the weakest division; if they lose more than three games in the regular season (without a run of bad luck on injuries), I'll be shocked.


----------



## Jdvn1

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Both Houston and Washington are desparate for a win - should be interesting.



 Less interesting than I thought. :\


----------



## Ghostwind

I pretty much figured that the outcome of Washington and Houston would be one-sided.


----------



## DaveMage

Well, my Jags lost, but damn they were taking it to them in the first half.  

They probably should have won, but that's what happens when you make mistakes against great teams.

Oh well.


----------



## loki44

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> The Patriots looked pretty week to me. A close one with the Bills, and then a close one with the Jets. Discounting how Miami is playing, the AFC East is pretty interesting now.




I was forced to eat my words.


----------



## Crothian

So, who had the Saints 3-0 and alone on top the NFC South at the beginning of the year??


----------



## drothgery

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, who had the Saints 3-0 and alone on top the NFC South at the beginning of the year??




Well, the 3-0 start isn't too unpredictable, if you figure the Browns and Packers (sigh) are bad, and Falcons, 2-0 record nonwithstanding, are a mediocre team. When bad teams play, someone must win (also, the Saints are less bad than the Browns or Packers), and in an emotionally-charged home game, there's a good chance a bad home team will win over a mediocre road team (like the Falcons).

Still, I think the way to bet is that, as per last year, Steve Smith gets healthy, and the Panthers go on a winning streak and take the division. And then get stomped in the playoffs by the Seahawks, or someone else that figured out how to play a box and one on Smith.


----------



## Crothian

It's nice to see a team (the Jets) that look like thaey want to win the game: on side kjick in the second, going for it on 4rth down!!  Nice!!


----------



## Dungannon

I like what I'm seeing so far from Vince Young and LenDale White today.  The Titans' offense has some potential.  Now if they can just do something about their defense...


----------



## Crothian

Jets Colts was one of the more entertaining games I'd seen in a while.  The Jets were close to the win, but just couldn't pull it off.  

And the Ravens beat the Chargers.  If Bengals can win that gives the AFC North two undefeateds!!


----------



## Ghostwind

The Colts/Jets game was just plain fun to watch.


----------



## Captain Tagon

The Ravens are 4-0. Who saw that coming a month ago?


----------



## Crothian

The Ravens did have one of the easier schedules starting out and many people always felt they were a good QB away from greatness.


----------



## Captain Tagon

Yeah, but McNair has shwon me a lot these past four games. I thought he was washed up at TN but now he's showing what he can still do with decent players around him.


----------



## Crothian

I wasn't sure if he was washed up or not.  The Titans lost so much good talent around him and it was hard to say how much of their problems were on him or the others around him.


----------



## drothgery

WRT the Ravens -- the only good team they played was a west coast team at 10am Pacific.


----------



## Crothian

drothgery said:
			
		

> WRT the Ravens -- the only good team they played was a west coast team at 10am Pacific.





What? Real men, footballers, can't play in the morning?  I could maybe see a slow first quater but you'd link after playing for 15 minutes they'd wake up.   

Suan Alexander might have been more imporant to the Seahawks then people thought.  Or the Bears Defense is scarey.


----------



## Captain Tagon

Crothian said:
			
		

> Suan Alexander might have been more imporant to the Seahawks then people thought.  Or the Bears Defense is scarey.





I think it's the second. These Bears are scary good.


----------



## Ghostwind

The Bears are showing championship qualities.


----------



## Crothian

Not too hard to do though in the NFC.  No one else has really made a statement


----------



## Gunslinger

That lateral-fest by the Jets on the last play of the game was the most entertaining thing I've seen so far this season.

Oakland finally scored, even if they didn't win.

The Texans won their first game, why am I not surprised it was against the Dolphins?

Bengals and Seahawks both looked awful today.


----------



## dragonhead

Crothian said:
			
		

> Not too hard to do though in the NFC.  No one else has really made a statement




The rams are 3-1, not bad considering thats more then half what they won last year.


----------



## Crothian

Indy is losing to the Titans, that's funny.


----------



## trancejeremy

Whew! The Rams won 4-1, thanks to a fumble by Favre. That's twice they've won this year by the QB fumbling right at the end of the game.  Better to be lucky than good, but I fear for when the luck runs out. Reminds of the first year of the Rich Brooks era (5-0, then 1-10, I think)


----------



## drothgery

Crothian said:
			
		

> Indy is losing to the Titans, that's funny.




This is the NFL. No one, with the possible exception of the Raiders, is so bad that they can't beat a good team that's having an off day, if they get a few good breaks.

The 1996 Packers -- arguably the best NFL team ever, as one of the few teams to finish with the #1 offense, the #1 defense, and win the Super Bowl -- lost to a Colts team that ended up 3-13 or something like that.


----------



## Crothian

Doesn't mean I can't poke fun when it happens!!    But it didn't happen this time.


----------



## Crothian

And Phili beats  T.O.  ...I mean Dallas


----------



## Gunslinger

Crothian said:
			
		

> And Phili beats  T.O.  ...I mean Dallas




...and what a great game it was!  The Eagles really need to get a reliable run game going though, so they can actually control the second half when they're ahead and burn time off the clock to secure a win.


----------



## Crothian

The Steelers are really not having a good season....


----------



## drothgery

Crothian said:
			
		

> The Steelers are really not having a good season....




Don't take it too hard. They lost to the best team in the NFL after a cross-country road trip. If they lose to KC next week, then start worrying.


----------



## Crothian

They didn't play the Bears.......



Rivers looked great in the second half.  The steelers just need to have some players break out.  They have good players, but none are really stepping up this year.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> And Phili beats  T.O.  ...I mean Dallas




Amazing finish....


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> And Phili beats  T.O.  ...I mean Dallas





Who better than the team who'd had to deal with him previously?


----------



## dragonhead

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Whew! The Rams won 4-1, thanks to a fumble by Favre. That's twice they've won this year by the QB fumbling right at the end of the game.  Better to be lucky than good, but I fear for when the luck runs out.




Yes, but they are still 4-1,  Go Rams!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Crothian

But can the Rams challenge the Seahawks?


----------



## dragonhead

they'll chalange them, but i doubt they will win


----------



## DaveMage

dragonhead said:
			
		

> they'll chalange them, but i doubt they will win




Is Alexander still out for the Seahawks?

If so, it's anybody's game...


----------



## Ghostwind

Colts squeaked one out with their win over the Titans.


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Is Alexander still out for the Seahawks?
> 
> If so, it's anybody's game...




I think he will be.  It is also a home game for the Rams.


----------



## Fishbone

How did the Vikings manage to win that game? This is so bizarre to me, the Vikings haven't had a defense in the top 10 since 1998. The passing game needs a real revamp, though. Longer routes in the 10-15 range, get the tight ends involved.


----------



## Crothian

Fishbone said:
			
		

> How did the Vikings manage to win that game?




They scored more points then the other team.


----------



## Fishbone

Well, duh. But they just exploded on them in the 4th quarter. If you were a Vikings fan watching the first half you'd have gone ballistic. B.S. penalties, poor play on both sides of the ball, just terrible. Ah well, I fully expected the Vikings to be sub .500 right about now.


----------



## DaveMage

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> Colts squeaked one out with their win over the Titans.




Colts will be tested in 5 out of their next 6 games: Redskins, @Broncos, @Patriots, Bills, @Cowboys, Eagles.   I can see them going 5-1 as easy as I can see them going 1-5 in that stretch.


----------



## dragonhead

THE RAVENS LOST. BUHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA


----------



## Crothian

Why is that funny?  Are you a Browns fan?


----------



## dragonhead

The hype on baltimore television was funney enough, thatnk you satalite tv


----------



## Dungannon

Whew, what an emotionally draining game.  Seattle & St. Louis sure put on a show today.


----------



## Crothian

Steelers look a little better today


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> Steelers look a little better today




Just a bit.    

How 'bout them Titans?!?


----------



## Crothian

How about them Saints?  They are really starting to put together a good series of wins.  Lions also got their first win of the season, so only Oakland is without a win.  And jusging by the SNF game it's not changing this week.


----------



## Aurora

I think the Steelers looked more than  "little better". They could still play better, but they actually played  like they should be. 

Chargers look good still


----------



## DaveMage

Yeah, Saints are rolling.

For those of you playing at home:

Reggie Bush (season): 170 yards rushing; 250 yards receiving; 132 punt return yards.
Mario Williams (season): 12 tackles, 4 assists, 1.5 sacks.  

I'd hate to be a Texan fan...


----------



## Crothian

So, did the Cards and Bears switch uniforms?


----------



## Dungannon

I dunno, but this game is much more entertaining than I thought it would be.


----------



## Crothian

I doubt anyone out of the state of Arizona expected this.  And I doubt most of the people in the state did as well!!


----------



## DaveMage

20-0 Arizona at the half - wow!


----------



## Crothian

So, big early season upset?  Great Bears comeback?  or Cards huge meltdown?


----------



## Crothian

Holy snickey's!!  This game is great!!  The Bears with the great come back leaving the Cards to try to win this thing!!


----------



## jonathan swift

I was about ready to call it a night going into the 4th. Great teams find ways to win.


----------



## Crothian

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> I was about ready to call it a night going into the 4th. Great teams find ways to win.




and the Cards are good at finding ways to loose


----------



## jonathan swift

Crothian said:
			
		

> and the Cards are good at finding ways to loose





Maybe not. This one is going down to the wire.


----------



## jonathan swift

And the miss.


----------



## drothgery

It's probably worth noting that pass interference and illegal contact were apparently legalized in this game; most notably by the Bears in the second to last drive (where several Arizona recievers were tackled before the ball got anywhere near them), but also early in the game when the Bears were trying to throw deep three times in a row.

Also, anyone think Leinart wishes he could trade Edge for Reggie Bush or LenDale White straight up about now?


----------



## Aurora

I would hate to be Cards fan right now.......to royally dominate a team and then lose......sad.


----------



## Crothian

drothgery said:
			
		

> It's probably worth noting that pass interference and illegal contact were apparently legalized in this game




Ya, I noiticed that as well.


----------



## kenobi65

The Bears completely pulled that one out of their collective butt.  When you turn the ball over, what, 6 times, and you still manage to win because the other kicker misses an eminently-makable field goal, you thank every god of luck you can think of and get the hell out of Dodge.


----------



## ph34r

And we see the true face of Grossman... 4 INT's...


----------



## DaveMage

I shouldn't have gone to bed at 23-10.


----------



## dragonhead

The rams lost by a faluty call by the ref. 4 seconds left and the seahawks were going for it when they false started. the ref called illegal formation and that gave the seahawks the time they needed to put out their special teams. the rams should have won that games.


----------



## ph34r

dragonhead said:
			
		

> The rams lost by a faluty call by the ref. 4 seconds left and the seahawks were going for it when they false started. the ref called illegal formation and that gave the seahawks the time they needed to put out their special teams. the rams should have won that games.




There are quiet a few teams who got shafted. Cincinnati should have won their game but the ref made a horrible call with the roughing the QB penalty.


----------



## Crothian

dragonhead said:
			
		

> The rams lost by a faluty call by the ref. 4 seconds left and the seahawks were going for it when they false started. the ref called illegal formation and that gave the seahawks the time they needed to put out their special teams. the rams should have won that games.




Why?  It looked like the right call.


----------



## dragonhead

But the seahawks false started, with a false start call, the rams would have won. the seahawks had no time outs, and the illegal formation call allowed the seahawks to swich to sepcial teams, they should not have won.


----------



## kenobi65

dragonhead said:
			
		

> But the seahawks false started, with a false start call, the rams would have won. the seahawks had no time outs, and the illegal formation call allowed the seahawks to swich to sepcial teams, they should not have won.




I think the issue was that, had the officials called Seattle for a false start, the rules state that, because it's within the last 2 minutes, they have to run 10 seconds off the clock (which stops due to the penalty being called).  As there was under 10 seconds left, this would have ended the game.  

Illegal formation, on the other hand, does *not* carry that 10-second penalty, and, thus, while it backed Seattle up 5 more yards, it still left them with time to kick the field goal.

I haven't seen the tape of the game, so I have no idea if the officials made a correct call or not.  (dragonhead, given your location, I suspect you're a Rams fan, and thus may not have an entirely neutral view of the situation  .)  What it does illustrate is that, intentionally or not, the Seahawks found a loophole in the rules.


----------



## Crothian

dragonhead said:
			
		

> But the seahawks false started, with a false start call, the rams would have won. the seahawks had no time outs, and the illegal formation call allowed the seahawks to swich to sepcial teams, they should not have won.





No, they had an illegal formation there was no false start that I saw.  Even the commentators of ESPN who love to point out wrong calls agreed with it.


----------



## Dungannon

As a Seahawk fan I'm not about to start discussing questionable calls by the officials.

That said, will last night's epic collapse lead to a season-long downward spiral for the Cards or will they use it forge a newfound sense of purpose that will lead to a successful campaign?


----------



## Gunslinger

That MNF game was the most pathetic game I've ever seen.  As soon as the Cards repeatedly failed to put the game away in the 2nd quarter (and persisisted with the runs that got nowhere), I knew they were doomed.


----------



## Crothian

Dungannon said:
			
		

> That said, will last night's epic collapse lead to a season-long downward spiral for the Cards or will they use it forge a newfound sense of purpose that will lead to a successful campaign?




They are doomed.  They will finish in the bottom three


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> They are doomed.  They will finish in the bottom three




I dislike the mid-season (and reactionary) firing of their offensive coordinator.  Why would you want to work for Dennis Green if he treats his people that way?  Talk about walking on eggshells...


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I dislike the mid-season (and reactionary) firing of their offensive coordinator.  Why would you want to work for Dennis Green if he treats his people that way?  Talk about walking on eggshells...




Not that I think the firing will change anything, but I'm sure that:

(a) They felt that they needed to do something drastic after the complete collapse on Monday.  Running Edge 32 times when he's not even getting 2 yards a carry, and leaving Urlacher fundamentally unblocked, is a sure sign that your offensive coordinator doesn't know how to handle a lead.

(b) All the pundits say Green has to produce this season, or he's out the door, so he may be grasping at straws.


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I dislike the mid-season (and reactionary) firing of their offensive coordinator.  Why would you want to work for Dennis Green if he treats his people that way?  Talk about walking on eggshells...




After a lose like that and one which it seemed the Offensive Coordinator and Head Coach were not working together weill I was not that suprised.


----------



## loki44

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I dislike the mid-season (and reactionary) firing of their offensive coordinator.  Why would you want to work for Dennis Green if he treats his people that way?  Talk about walking on eggshells...




Yeah, I agree with the reactionary bit to a point.  AZ was up against arguably the best defense in the NFL.  Leinert moved the ball effectively in the first half.  Fumbles and punt returns for TDs have little to do with the offensive coordinator.  Having said that, I don't believe the guy was simply fired as a scapegoat.  The writing was on the wall despite the turnovers all season as evidenced by James' inability to run effectively.  They signed him because they expected him to be a big part of their offensive and that simply hasn't panned out over the course of the season so far.


----------



## DaveMage

loki44 said:
			
		

> Yeah, I agree with the reactionary bit to a point.  AZ was up against arguably the best defense in the NFL.  Leinert moved the ball effectively in the first half.  Fumbles and punt returns for TDs have little to do with the offensive coordinator.  Having said that, I don't believe the guy was simply fired as a scapegoat.  The writing was on the wall despite the turnovers all season as evidenced by James' inability to run effectively.  They signed him because they expected him to be a big part of their offensive and that simply hasn't panned out over the course of the season so far.




Scoring 23 points against the Bears is indeed pretty impressive.  Ask any of the other teams the Bears have played this year....

I have no problem with dumping someone in the off-season, but there's no time for a new offensive coordinator to put in his own system in mid-year (unless you're giving up on the year, but Dennis Green can't do that to save his own job).  

I certainly agree that some of the play-calling was sub-par (36 carries for 55 yards should tell you that maybe there should have been another tactic there), but all that needs to happen to change that is a conversation between head coach and coordinator to be on the same page (or simply have the play-calling duties assigned elsewhere).


----------



## Gunslinger

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Scoring 23 points against the Bears is indeed pretty impressive.  Ask any of the other teams the Bears have played this year....




Not really.  Their first touchdown drive was impressive, but scoring 16 points off of 6 turnovers was definitely not...


----------



## DaveMage

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> ...but scoring 16 points off of 6 turnovers was definitely not...




Yeah, there is that...


----------



## dragonhead

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Yeah, there is that...



 the bears got lucky and the cards played badly. 

after whatching the replay, the seahawks did have an illegal formation, but also false started. oh, well. any calls on this weeks games yet? i think the bears will finally fall.


----------



## kenobi65

dragonhead said:
			
		

> the bears got lucky and the cards played badly.




The Bears got insanely lucky.  The Cardinals completely let the opportunity slip through their fingers.



			
				dragonhead said:
			
		

> any calls on this weeks games yet? i think the bears will finally fall.




Well, it won't be this week, as the Bears are playing the woeful Byes, and they've never lost to them.


----------



## dragonhead

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Well, it won't be this week, as the Bears are playing the woeful Byes, and they've never lost to them.




The Byes could get luccky


----------



## d20Dwarf

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> The Bears got insanely lucky.




They were lucky that they kept trying no matter how much the chips were stacked against them? They were lucky they have a strong character that's little seen in the NFL? Great teamwork and spirit?

I think saying they got lucky takes away from one of the great football performances of all time. They kept _trying_, and as a result came out with a win against all odds. I say kudos to them, not "ya got lucky."


----------



## drothgery

Fumble recoveries are largely determined by luck (causing fumbles is another matter, but recoveries average out to 50/50 in the long run); no team in NFL history has consistently recovered a majority of fumbles. The Bears scored directly off of a fumble recovery. Special teams scores are largely determined by luck (when the NFL record for punt return TDs is less than ten a year, you know not even the best can do it consistently). Misses on unblocked field goals are largely determined by distance, luck, and weather (and in Phoenix, weather is a non-factor). Without a fumble recovery TD, a punt return TD, and two missed field goals (one of under circumstances that make it nearly automatic for an NFL kicker), the game would have gone to OT, or the Bears would have lost.


----------



## kenobi65

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> They were lucky that they kept trying no matter how much the chips were stacked against them? They were lucky they have a strong character that's little seen in the NFL? Great teamwork and spirit?




All true...but...

Even with all that, they *still* wouldn't have won if the Cardinals had known how to protect a lead, or Rackers makes an eminently-makeable field goal at the end.

That game was a testament to how messed-up and snakebit the Cardinals franchise is, at least as much as how resilient the Bears are.


----------



## Crothian

That's why they play the games.


----------



## DaveMage

I'm really having trouble picking the Arizona-Oakland game this weekend.  I've flip-flopped a couple of times already....


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I'm really having trouble picking the Arizona-Oakland game this weekend.  I've flip-flopped a couple of times already....




Stop filpping. Arizona's better on offense, better on defense, better on special teams, and at least has small trace elements of positive karma in Matt Leinart's arm. The Raiders probably won't go 0-16, but that's no reason not to pick against them in every game.


----------



## DaveMage

Yeah, I'm going with the Cards, but I just have a hunch that the Raiders will be up for this one...


----------



## Jdvn1

Go Texans! 

2 wins in one season!


----------



## Dungannon

Wow, just finished watching an offensive thriller between Pittsburgh & Atlanta.  Who would've thought two teams known for their running games would combine for nine passing touchdowns.


----------



## Crothian

Steelers should have won that!!  I wasn't able to see the game and aside from the final score I know nothing; but still, they should have won!!


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> Stop filpping. Arizona's better on offense, better on defense, better on special teams, and at least has small trace elements of positive karma in Matt Leinart's arm. The Raiders probably won't go 0-16, but that's no reason not to pick against them in every game.




You were saying...?


----------



## Gunslinger

7/12 games today were upsets.

I still can't believe the Eagles on a 62 yard field goal by a kicker that hadn't hit anything over 28 yards this year (career long of 50).

Oakland got their first win of the year, I guess Arizona really is the worst team in the NFL.


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> You were saying...?




... just because it's completely logical to pick one team to win a given game, it doesn't necessarily mean they will win. I'd still continue picking against the Raiders every week.


----------



## Dungannon

And Seattle's downward spiral continues.  Not only do they lose at home for the first time since '04 but they lose their quarterback for an undermined amount of time.


----------



## Crothian

Ya, this was a wierd weekend in the NFL


----------



## DaveMage

I wonder if Dennis Green will fire himself this week...


----------



## trancejeremy

The only way for the Cardinals to reverse their suckage, is for the owner to fire himself.


----------



## kenobi65

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> The only way for the Cardinals to reverse their suckage, is for the owner to fire himself.




That has been a needed item for a very long time now...


----------



## loki44

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I wonder if Dennis Green will fire himself this week...




He is what I thought he was!  Denny Green is what I thought he was, and the Cards keep letting him off the hook!


----------



## DaveMage

loki44 said:
			
		

> He is what I thought he was!  Denny Green is what I thought he was, and the Cards keep letting him off the hook!


----------



## Crothian

Patriots are still dominating.  Broncos seem to have the advantage in the West.  Colts are  of course tops in the South and the North seems to have Cincy leading the way.  But there doesn't seem to be a clear cut dominate team this year in the AFC.  

NFC has them Bears as it looks like the other teams are all taking a few steps back.


----------



## Gunslinger

What an ugly monday night game.


----------



## Crothian

Uglier for the Cowboys though.


----------



## dragonhead

After a close game with the byes, the Bears and Rams will try to improve their record this week. I hope the Rams improve to 5-2


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> Uglier for the Cowboys though.




Yup. Their entire offensive line sucketh and all they're doing is blaming Bledsoe?!?!?! It ain't his fault he got sacked. Perhaps they should threaten to replace several offensive linemen and see what happens.....


----------



## dragonhead

Rams @ San Diego tomorrow


----------



## Darth K'Trava

I'm waitin' for the Dallas/Carolina game tomorrow night. I'm a fan of both but will pull for Carolina since if Dallas plays like they did last week, Julius Peppers' gonna have a field day and plenty of shots at Bledsoe/Roma (whoever they pick to get hammered this week....   ).


----------



## Gunslinger

Damon Huard was injured in practice and he may not play vs Seattle on sunday.  That would make it Seneca Wallace vs Brodie Croyle, who have combined for a total of 31/59 (52.5%), 336 yds, 5.7 YPA, 1 TD, 5 INT, 39.9 rating in their total careers.


----------



## Dungannon

Yeah, I'm thinking that Seattle-KC game may be real ugly.


----------



## Crothian

Advantage KC since they have their running game


----------



## Dungannon

Seattle can't seem to catch a break.  Already missing their starting QB, RB, one of their WRs, and their LG, now their starting RT is suspended for this game because of a violation of the leagues personal conduct policy.


----------



## DaveMage

Go Jags!

(OK, I didn't even pick them to win, but woohoo!)


----------



## Gunslinger

Awesome game in Denver; Mike Bell averaged 9.1 yards per carry against the Colts stinky run-defense but Peyton Manning proved he's a (regular season) god.  32/39, 345 yards, 3 TDs, no sacks or interceptions, 129.2 rating vs the stingiest defense in the league.

NO finally lost at home, it sure looks like firing Fassel was a good move by the Ravens.

Roethlisber has just taken way too many hits in the last few months to play effective football.

Carson Palmer is starting to look like his old self, and the Bengals are certainly glad they reactivated Henry.  Vick had another very impressive game though.

Larry Johnson is a Beast.


----------



## dragonhead

Rams lost. theyre record is now 4-3


----------



## Crothian

Big win for the Browns!!  The Steelers though just are not looking that good.


----------



## drothgery

Crothian said:
			
		

> Big win for the Browns!!  The Steelers though just are not looking that good.




It looks like Big Ben has a Brett Favre complex; he's refusing to sit out games when he's hurt, and it's killing the Steelers.


----------



## Dungannon

Ben's only been in the league three seasons, it shouldn't be his decision.  Cohwer's the one who decides which player lines up under center so I'd put the blame on him.  Although in his defense Rothlisberger didn't play _that_ bad.  He completed 67% of his passes and had two TDs and a couple of his interceptions were on tipped passes.


----------



## Crothian

Vikings Patriots is looking to be a good one tonight.


----------



## Gunslinger

Well that was ugly.


----------



## Crothian

Patriots are once again the team to beat.  Poor Colts.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Sunday Night's new title: Deconstructing Carolina.

THAT was ugly.


----------



## kenobi65

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> Well that was ugly.




Bwah-hah-hah-hah! 

(I loathe the Vikings, fyi....)


----------



## Crothian

Wow, not even 5 minutes into the game Cincy turns it over twice and its 14-0 Ravens winning.


----------



## Dungannon

The Dallas-Washington game is a good one so far.


----------



## Crothian

I keep seeing the score of Miami beating the Bears.  THat's funny considering what happened to the 85 Bears!!


----------



## Crothian

Dungannon said:
			
		

> The Dallas-Washington game is a good one so far.




That was one of the odder endings to a NFL game I've seen!!


----------



## Aurora

Damn, nice defensive play by Harris. Not a bad round-off back-handspring either


----------



## Crothian

Anyone know the reason defense can't take consecutive time outs?  It got called against SD and I've never heard that one before.  Obviously, it's in the rule book but I'm wondering why it is in the rulebook.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Anyone know the reason defense can't take consecutive time outs?  It got called against SD and I've never heard that one before.  Obviously, it's in the rule book but I'm wondering why it is in the rulebook.



I have never heard of it either......
According to chicagosports.com, there is not supposed to be a penalty "unless the purpose of the second timeout is to startle and cause a false start by the offensive team. In this situation, an unsportsmanlike conduct foul could be called on the defensive team. Under college rules, consecutive team timeouts are legal, and a team could call all of the team timeouts in succession."
I am stumped...


----------



## Crothian

Well, the Browns really tried, but too many field goals and no TD's.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> I keep seeing the score of Miami beating the Bears.  THat's funny considering what happened to the 85 Bears!!




I saw that score and nearly rubbed my eyes to see if I was seeing things.... (didn't due to fact I wear contacts)


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> That was one of the odder endings to a NFL game I've seen!!




I'll say...... blocked FG to penalty to not blocked FG.....


----------



## Crothian

Steelers are trying to have the worst season after winning a Super Bowl....


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Steelers are trying to have the worst season after winning a Super Bowl....



I know. If they would actually play to their potential and then lose, it wouldn't be so bad....


----------



## dshai527

Aurora said:
			
		

> I know. If they would actually play to their potential and then lose, it wouldn't be so bad....





You're just saying this to make me feel better. I know you are secretly loving it. Its a shame your experience points are tied to it.   

P.S. 
San Antonio is a long way from you.


----------



## Crothian

dshai527 said:
			
		

> P.S.
> San Antonio is a long way from you.




That's sad    

THere's no Sad in Football threads!!


----------



## Aurora

dshai527 said:
			
		

> You're just saying this to make me feel better. I know you are secretly loving it. Its a shame your experience points are tied to it.
> 
> P.S.
> San Antonio is a long way from you.



I miss you baby! (Sorry Crothian) 

On a happy football note, my Chargers won! Woohoo!


----------



## drothgery

Aurora said:
			
		

> On a happy football note, my Chargers won! Woohoo!




I still think we'd be undefeated if we kept Brees.


----------



## Aurora

drothgery said:
			
		

> I still think we'd be undefeated if we kept Brees.



I quite agree with you.

Wow, the Colts could have sealed the deal with that kick, too bad they flubbed it. Never mind, they intercepted the ball!  Nice.


----------



## Crothian

Nice win for the Colts!!  Maybe this is their year!!


----------



## DaveMage

Miami beat Chicago.

I'm beyond stunned....

Owell - great win for the Jaguars.  37-7 is fun!


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Miami beat Chicago.
> 
> I'm beyond stunned....




It's really not all that unusual for a really bad team to beat a really good team once or twice a year in the NFL; the talent disparity between the best team and the worst isn't large enough to overcome a really bad day with luck factors and injuries.

I argue a lot that the 1996 Packers were the best team in the history of the NFL (as the only team to ever have the top offense, the top defense, and win the Super Bowl)... and they lost a game to a Colts team that won no more than 3 games that year.


----------



## kenobi65

drothgery said:
			
		

> I argue a lot that the 1996 Packers were the best team in the history of the NFL (as the only team to ever have the top offense, the top defense, and win the Super Bowl)... and they lost a game to a Colts team that won no more than 3 games that year.




Ohhh, that particular game drove me nuts.  The Pack made Ken Dilger look like the second coming of Dave Casper.

Just more proof of how hard it is for even the best teams to bring their A game every week.

And now, the Bear faithful here in Chicago are waiting with bated breath for the outcome of the exam on Urlacher's foot.


----------



## Gunslinger

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Miami beat Chicago.
> 
> I'm beyond stunned....




I picked the Bears to win, but to be honest I'm not terribly surprised they lost.  Every time this year that Rex Grossman has faced a pass-defense ranked in the top 16 he's thrown multiple picks, except this time the defense wasn't enough to save the game for them.


----------



## DaveMage

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> I picked the Bears to win, but to be honest I'm not terribly surprised they lost.  Every time this year that Rex Grossman has faced a pass-defense ranked in the top 16 he's thrown multiple picks, except this time the defense wasn't enough to save the game for them.




Miami's defense is sound, but...It's Joey Harrington at QB!    

The fact that Harrington orchestrated even 1 point on that Bears defense is amazing.


----------



## Gunslinger

Ouch, Walter has been sacked 4 times already and it's still the first quarter.  At least one or two or those were out of max protection schemes...


----------



## Aurora

I think this is gonna be a blowout.


----------



## Crothian

Wow, Stevens is still dropping the balls


----------



## Aurora

Ugh, I could care less about Christian Slater. Blah blah blah


----------



## Crothian

It's not like the game was all that exciting


----------



## Gunslinger

At this point ESPN should be feeling dirty for continuing to advertise it.


----------



## Aurora

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> At this point ESPN should be feeling dirty for continuing to advertise it.



Now _that_ is funny.


----------



## kenobi65

To: Randy Moss

From: Packer Nation

HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!  Nice choice, going to Oakland, bub.  Bet you miss Daunte now.

Punk.


----------



## Aeson

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> To: Randy Moss
> 
> From: Packer Nation
> 
> HA HA HA HA HA HA HA!  Nice choice, going to Oakland, bub.  Bet you miss Daunte now.
> 
> Punk.



rofl

I didn't see the game. I like football but normally has to be a team from Georgia for me to watch.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Aeson said:
			
		

> rofl
> 
> I didn't see the game. I like football but normally has to be a team from Georgia for me to watch.




At least I watch games outside of North Carolina....   

I still think TO is a bunch of crap. He's an immature little rich brat that needs a serious ass whuppin'.   

And this year's Raiders are a freakin' joke.


----------



## Aurora

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> And this year's Raiders are a freakin' joke.



I quite enjoyed watching my Chargers monkey stomp them 27-0 in week 1.


----------



## Aeson

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> At least I watch games outside of North Carolina....
> 
> I still think TO is a bunch of crap. He's an immature little rich brat that needs a serious ass whuppin'.
> 
> And this year's Raiders are a freakin' joke.



I do watch the Cowboys and the Bears sometimes.


----------



## cattoy

Correction: The Raiders Offense is a total joke. The D is very competitive.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Aeson said:
			
		

> I do watch the Cowboys and the Bears sometimes.




When they're in Georgia?


----------



## Aeson

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> When they're in Georgia?



Yes. No not really. I watch them when they play other teams.


----------



## dragonhead

two points,

1. the colts have 8 more games to go before the play offs, dont think they will go undefeated.

2. rams are in a slump,     hope they fix it and win like a certain other st. louis team.  (refrained from sayin the name to keep this thread pure)


----------



## Seonaid

I haven't read this thread at all, but a friend of mine (who is a Steelers fan) sent me this and I wanted to share the joy (I'm an Eagles fan):

*Pittsburgh Steelers Practice Delayed*

Pittsburgh (Pa) - Pittsburgh Steelers football practice was delayed nearly two hours today after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the practice field. Head Coach Bill Cowher immediately suspended practice while police and federal investigators were called to investigate. After a complete analysis, FBI forensic experts determined that the white substance unknown to the players was the goal line. Practice was resumed after special agents decided the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again.


----------



## Crothian

The Steelers can score, they just help the other team score more.


----------



## Aurora

I went to take a nap upset that my Chargers were gettig beat, boy was I surprised when I woke up. Maybe that's the key, if your team is losing, go take a nap. That totally goes against the whole football feng shui thing though. Maybe it was just a fluke.....


----------



## drothgery

Aurora said:
			
		

> I went to take a nap upset that my Chargers were gettig beat, boy was I surprised when I woke up. Maybe that's the key, if your team is losing, go take a nap. That totally goes against the whole football feng shui thing though. Maybe it was just a fluke.....




I changed the channel, and then read for a bit...


----------



## Heckler

I watched the whole...damn...game...


----------



## Crothian

I got to watch the second half.  Boy were the Chargers on fire!!


----------



## Aurora

drothgery said:
			
		

> I changed the channel, and then read for a bit...



That must be it then, if our Chargers are doing poorly we have to stop watching LOL


----------



## Jdvn1

Go Texans! I'm glad to see so much improvement from last year!


----------



## Crothian

I remember the days Steelers had a defense and could stop people from scoring.  Of course they usually couldn't score much then either.  Good win for them!!


----------



## Dungannon

dragonhead said:
			
		

> 2. rams are in a slump,     hope they fix it and win like a certain other st. louis team.  (refrained from sayin the name to keep this thread pure)



I would like to thank the Rams, and especially Coach Linehan, for maintaining their slump for at least another week.


----------



## Gunslinger

This is such a boring game; ESPN picked some real stinkers for their monday night lineup.


----------



## kenobi65

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> This is such a boring game; ESPN picked some real stinkers for their monday night lineup.




Well, at the beginning of the year, it probably looked like a good matchup.  Most prognosticators had at least one of these two teams in the playoffs, and a lot of people picked Carolina to go to the Super Bowl.

It's been the problem that MNF has had for years, really ever since the current free agency / salary cap era began in the early 90s.  The year-to-year variation in team performance has increased dramatically.  MNF has always had the luxury of picking and choosing who they feature, and they always try to get teams and matchups that look good on paper...but they have to choose months before the season starts.

What ABC wanted for years, and never managed to get, was the ability to switch out MNF games late in the year, when a particular game winds up looking like a stinker.  When NBC did the Sunday night contract this year, they managed to get that "flexible scheduling", much to the annoyance of Fox and CBS (who feel that their best games are being poached).  Last night's Bears/Giants game wasn't originally supposed to be a night game, for example, and Fox was plenty peeved that they lost a matchup between the top two teams in the NFC (and two of the top 3 TV markets).


----------



## Crothian

Even if the teams had turned out to be playoff bound, that doesn't mean the game will always be interesting.


----------



## dragonhead

Dungannon said:
			
		

> I would like to thank the Rams, and especially Coach Linehan, for maintaining their slump for at least another week.



you have been welcomed.


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Even if the teams had turned out to be playoff bound, that doesn't mean the game will always be interesting.




Indeed...but, too, often, the MNF game winds up being:
a) a game between two bad teams, and no one tunes in at all, or 
b) a blowout, and they lose their audience in the second half.


----------



## Gunslinger

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Well, at the beginning of the year, it probably looked like a good matchup.  Most prognosticators had at least one of these two teams in the playoffs, and a lot of people picked Carolina to go to the Super Bowl.




I realize that, but it still doesn't excuse ESPN for giving the Raiders and Packers two Monday night appearances each.  I don't think any sane prognosticator would expect either of those teams would provide a good matchup.


----------



## kenobi65

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> I realize that, but it still doesn't excuse ESPN for giving the Raiders and Packers two Monday night appearances each.  I don't think any sane prognosticator would expect either of those teams would provide a good matchup.




Probably a couple of factors in there:

1) Each team is limited to, I think, three or five "national" appearances (Sunday night, Monday night, Thanksgiving, etc.)...given that, there's just no way you can get New England or the Giants on every single week.   Even with their best efforts, not every Monday or Sunday night game is going to be between two good teams.

2) Oakland and Green Bay have among the more avid fan bases of NFL teams, and probably get a certain draw when they're on, regardless of how well or poorly they're doing.  In the case of the Packers, they're probably also banking on a certain amount of interest in watching what may be Favre's final season (though they've been saying that for a couple of years now...)

(And this is coming from a diehard Packer fan.)


----------



## Crothian

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Indeed...but, too, often, the MNF game winds up being:
> a) a game between two bad teams, and no one tunes in at all, or
> b) a blowout, and they lose their audience in the second half.




Well, the only solution is to play all the games on Saturday and just let the most exciting one be broadcast Monday Night.  Otherwise, all people can do is schedule and hope.


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Well, the only solution is to play all the games on Saturday and just let the most exciting one be broadcast Monday Night.  Otherwise, all people can do is schedule and hope.




ABC, when they had MNF, had really wanted to be able to do what NBC is now being allowed to do with Sunday Night Football -- be able to swap out a late-season dog game for something more interesting.  The NFL never bit on that idea (I suspect because moving a game by a full day is a bigger deal, and has a bigger impact on fans' and teams' travel plans), and that's a big reason why MNF is now on cable; while MNF used to be ratings gold for ABC, in recent seasons, they routinely got thrashed in the ratings.

Anyway, Sunday night, I was listening to the Packers post-game radio show on WTMJ out of Milwaukee...and the eternal optimism of some of my fellow Packer fans just astonishes me.  One guy called in (keep in mind, this was before the Bears beat the Giants on Sunday night), and seriously wanted the host to evaluate the Pack's chances of catching the Bears in the NFC North.


----------



## sydbar

You also have to remember, Favre is the most entertaining player to watch in the NFL.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Seonaid said:
			
		

> I haven't read this thread at all, but a friend of mine (who is a Steelers fan) sent me this and I wanted to share the joy (I'm an Eagles fan):
> 
> *Pittsburgh Steelers Practice Delayed*
> 
> Pittsburgh (Pa) - Pittsburgh Steelers football practice was delayed nearly two hours today after a player reported finding an unknown white powdery substance on the practice field. Head Coach Bill Cowher immediately suspended practice while police and federal investigators were called to investigate. After a complete analysis, FBI forensic experts determined that the white substance unknown to the players was the goal line. Practice was resumed after special agents decided the team was unlikely to encounter the substance again.





And the player who discovered this? Ben Rothlesberger.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> This is such a boring game; ESPN picked some real stinkers for their monday night lineup.




It'd have been more interesting had the teams (yes, I'm REALLy looking at you, Carolina!!) had actually shown up to PLAY. Not just show up and fake it. I may be a Panthers fan but I think they shoulda lost that game. They were playing VERY STINKY!! Keep playing like that and the playoffs will be nothing but a wet dream to them. They've gotta play better than that. I'm sure high schoolers can play better than their offense played.

But I do thank God (and several other deities) that they didn't get TO like Dallas stupidly got. He may be a good player but he's gotta GROW THE EFF UP!!! And act like he should belong with a team rather than a "IT'S ALL ABOUT ME!!!" and be more about what he should do for the TEAM.


----------



## Crothian

Steelers are just taking this 2006 season off.  They earned it.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Steelers are just taking this 2006 season off.  They earned it.



Hmmmmm.........sure, we'll go with that.


----------



## Crothian

or It's a rebuilding year!!  Man Law!!  

They are in the giving spirit all year, no one turns the ball over like they do!!


----------



## Dungannon

Man, Chad Johnson is exploding again.  6 receptions, 190 yards, 3 touchdowns.  And it really sucks because I'm facing him in one of my fantasy leagues.


----------



## Crothian

Go Bengals!!


----------



## johnsemlak

The Bears are going on the Super Bowl Crush!!

9-1.


----------



## Crothian

Steelers looked actually good coming from behind to beat the Browns.


----------



## kenobi65

I could smell the Packer game from here, 200 miles south.

Eeeew.

Hope Favre isn't seriously hurt.


----------



## kenobi65

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> The Bears are going on the Super Bowl Crush!!
> 
> 9-1.




My lovely bride, the Bears fan, is thrilled, esp. after her White Sox faded in the stretch this year.


----------



## Crothian

Wow, the Colts fall to the Cowboys.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> Wow, the Colts fall to the Cowboys.




::cheers::

Both them and my Panthers won today!


----------



## Steve Jung

The freakin' Eagles are sunk, especially without #5.


----------



## Infiniti2000

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> The Bears are going on the Super Bowl Crush!!
> 
> 9-1.



 Just please God don't let them make another stupid song about it.


----------



## Gunslinger

Steve Jung said:
			
		

> The freakin' Eagles are sunk, especially without #5.




I hate to say it, but they'll be lucky to go 6-10 on the season after today.  Washington is the only team left with a losing record, and who exactly is going to lead that offense? Not Jeff Garcia.

Bring on Cutler in Denver.  That Mike Bell kid looks very good. If Denver had Tatum, Mike, and Nash all healthy for a triple-back rotation with a QB that could actually throw they’d be unstoppable. 

Chad Johnson is a stud.


----------



## drothgery

I'm thinking this 'get away from the TV for a while if the Chargers are losing' plan is working; after the way things looked at halftime I was fussing around on the 'net for longer than I would normally... and when I came back, a comeback was in process...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A Saints fan here... GEH- hope they can at least make the playoffs.

That "popping" sound you heard was the 1972 Dolphins drinking their Champagne, as the last undefeated team of 2006 falls.
The Cowboys vs Colts game was messy, messy, messy...at least now P. Manning can just concentrate on racking up more records before they bench him so he'll be rested & healthy for the playoffs.

And speaking of records:

I don't care who you are playing for...forthelovagawd, just DON'T MAKE THE CHARGERS ANGRY!

LT is now the fastest back to 100 TDs, the first to have back to back games with 4 TDs, and needs only 6 more to tie the single season TD record?

San Diego now has become the first team to comeback from a 17 pt deficit 2 weeks in a row, and has 4 victories in a row in which they gave up 20+ points- another NFL first!

(I suspect Marty Schottenheimer is playing the Krokus version of "Ballroom Blitz" in the halftime lockerroom to get his guys re-motivated...)

What next?


----------



## johnsemlak

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> Just please God don't let them make another stupid song about it.



 Too late dude, the song's already been made.  It's the Super Bowl Crush.

Now that theyv'e got the song out of the way, all they got to do is win the SuperBowl


----------



## Crothian

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> Too late dude, the song's already been made.  It's the Super Bowl Crush.
> 
> Now that theyv'e got the song out of the way, all they got to do is win the SuperBowl




Well, it is good to do the hardest part for first......


----------



## kenobi65

The Pack better be praying that Favre's elbow is just the "funny-bone" injury they were saying it was.

Aaron Rodgers broke his foot while playing in relief duty yesterday, and he's been put on IR.


----------



## Seonaid

Steve Jung said:
			
		

> The freakin' Eagles are sunk, especially without #5.



Ugh. What a game. Not to mention the fact that none of us at the game knew what was going on since they don't show replays of injuries (and questionable calls), so we had to wait until after the game to find out what exactly happened. Sigh.

On the bright side, statistically the Eagles are totally still in it. Hahahahahahaha . . . Double sigh.


----------



## DaveMage

Since I may be too embarrassed to say this in 4 hours, Go Jaguars!


----------



## DaveMage

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Since I may be too embarrassed to say this in 4 hours, Go Jaguars!




On the other hand, 26-10 pleases me.


----------



## Aurora

I can't believe this thread made it to the 2nd page. 

Wow, the Bengals are really whooping up on the Browns. Hehehe

I am excited for the Chargers-Raiders game though. I'd like to shut them out again


----------



## jonathan swift

Bad unnecessary roughness call on Julius Peppers, but they still kept the 'Skins from scoring on that drive so it's all good.

Pittsburgh just looks beat out there. They seem like they've already lost.


----------



## Dungannon

I can't believe the Carolina offense is looking so poor against the 30th ranked defense in the NFL.


----------



## Crothian

Go Saints!!


----------



## Aurora

Go Drew Breeze! I can't help but root for him. I wish he was still a Charger.


----------



## Crothian

It's not like Rivers is doing bad.


----------



## jonathan swift

The Saints need to do something here in the second half.


----------



## Crothian

Or just hold out for 6:35


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> It's not like Rivers is doing bad.



I know. I know. He's the Chargers' future. It's not that I don't like him.


----------



## Crothian

And their present


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

SAINTS WIN!

Everything else today is gravy...especially since I'm in the kitchen.


----------



## JoeBlank

I guess it is officially time to admit that the Falcons suck.

Can't believe the announcers bitching about the show of emotion from the players and coach. It is about time somebody acted like the care whether any of their first-round-draft-choice receivers can catch a pass. I was glad to see Crumpler and Mora react to the worst of the drops. And I hope it continued in the locker room after the game. 

The worst part is that the Panthers are usually my fallback team when the Falcons fall apart. I might have to be a Saints fan for the rest of the season.


----------



## Crothian

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> I guess it is officially time to admit that the Falcons suck.




Ya, same with the Steelers.


----------



## jonathan swift

Anyone want to bet these iffy calls on the NE secondary is karmic retribution for their years and years of mugging opposing receivers?


----------



## Crothian

I doubt it, the calls haven't been that bad.


----------



## jonathan swift

According to the announcers they have been. It's pretty funny sometimes.


----------



## Crothian

Those guys aren't that great as announcers IMO.

Bears couldn't win even with all that.


----------



## jonathan swift

With all those turn overs my dad dubbed it the game no one wanted to win.


----------



## Dungannon

Wow, how 'bout the Giants blowing a 21 point lead in the last 10 minutes of the game?!  Talk about a team going in the wrong direction...


----------



## Crothian

Or the Titans going in the right one


----------



## DaveMage

Dungannon said:
			
		

> Wow, how 'bout the Giants blowing a 21 point lead in the last 10 minutes of the game?!  Talk about a team going in the wrong direction...




My Jags suffered a heartbreaker in Buffalo...but nothing like what Giants fans must be going through right now.

I would not want to be a Giants employee tonight.  Yikes.


----------



## Seonaid

Yeah, my boyfriend is a Giants fan. It's not pretty.

Meanwhile, I'm hoping the Eagles do the same thing to the Colts. Not that I have much hope, but go Birds!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The guy who played "tag' with Vince at the end of that game probably needs a hug right about now...

and he'll need therapy after tomorrow's headlines!


----------



## dragonhead

rams won, so i am happy. though they played the 49ers, and barely made it out on top. :\


----------



## Crothian

Football in the snow!!  How it was meant to be played!!


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Football in the snow!!  How it was meant to be played!!




Yeah, baby!  Need to put on my Packer parka!


----------



## Gunslinger

I've lost track of how many turnovers this game has had so far...


----------



## kenobi65

GO PACK GO!
GO PACK GO!
GO PACK GO!


----------



## kenobi65

Bah!  Classic case of Favre's Disease.  Tries to carry the team on his back, and he makes bad decisions.


----------



## Dungannon

Well, it took a half for Matt to get back up to speed, but he looked much better in the second half.  Now we just have to get a tight end that can hold on to the ball.

Oh yeah, Alexander appears to be just fine, thank you.


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> The guy who played "tag' with Vince at the end of that game probably needs a hug right about now...
> 
> and he'll need therapy after tomorrow's headlines!



Not really.  His play was silly but so are the rules they are enforcing about the roughing the passer penalties.  He thought Young threw a pass and didn't want to get whistled for driving the QB into the ground.  *sigh*

The blame goes more on Eli's bad passing, Plax's lack of effort and Frank Walker being an idiot for hitting Young out of bounds on a stopped 4th down.

I hope the G-men can get it together for the 1st place showdown with the Cowboys...


----------



## Crothian

Big game tonight that I can't watc h.  Stupid NFL network!!


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> Big game tonight that I can't watc h.  Stupid NFL network!!




My opinion exactly. I'd have to get digital cable and see if they have it.... but then I've been thinking about that for awhile....


----------



## jonathan swift

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Not really.  His play was silly but so are the rules they are enforcing about the roughing the passer penalties.  He thought Young threw a pass and didn't want to get whistled for driving the QB into the ground.  *sigh*
> 
> The blame goes more on Eli's bad passing, Plax's lack of effort and Frank Walker being an idiot for hitting Young out of bounds on a stopped 4th down.
> 
> I hope the G-men can get it together for the 1st place showdown with the Cowboys...





Nah, blame it on the other four guys that stood around doing nothing on the same play. Which is why that play has become Tuesday Morning Quarterback's single worst play of the season.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> Big game tonight that I can't watc h.  Stupid NFL network!!




I have NFL network.

*gloats*

 

Actually, I somtimes just like following the games on NFL.com.  Instant stats and better play-by-play then you ever get with the announcers....


----------



## Darth K'Trava

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I have NFL network.
> 
> *gloats*




Bastard.



   

One of my coworkers has it as his landlord has satellite.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Oh, I agree that the rules are a bit bad regarding roughing the passer right now...

But remember, the NYC press is _BRUTAL._


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Aaaaaand the Bengals win!


----------



## jonathan swift

Sixty yarder and the Titans beat the Colts!


----------



## jonathan swift

Browns win and it's underdog day in the NFL apparently.


----------



## kenobi65

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Browns win and it's underdog day in the NFL apparently.




Not entirely.  The Pack still coughed up a big hairball vs. the Jets.


----------



## jonathan swift

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Not entirely.  The Pack still coughed up a big hairball vs. the Jets.





Upsets happen, miracles don't.


----------



## DaveMage

Jags win and Colts lose.

A perfect Sunday.


----------



## Crothian

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Upsets happen, miracles don't.




Miracles happen a lot in football.


----------



## Gunslinger

Well that turned into a pretty good monday night game, after the most punts in a first half of any game so far this year to start off the night.


----------



## Seonaid

Eagles all the way, baby!


----------



## Steve Jung

Oh yeah. It must be because I wore my 2004 NFC Championship shirt.


----------



## Seonaid

Or because I wore my jersey and scrunchie.

Oh wait, I do that every game day. Dammit. SJ, you better keep wearing that shirt!


----------



## Crothian

That wildcard NFC race is really going to be something now!


----------



## drothgery

Crazy prediction -- despite all the issues they've had this season, the Seahawks will get back to the Super Bowl (and lose to the Chargers, shocking no one outside of San Diego, where we expect our team to lose).

I can trust the Bears QB to play how I'd like -- remembering that I'm a Packers fan. Romo's had a good few weeks, so the inevitable bickering with TO should kick off about when the playoffs start. Brees and the Saints are a great story -- but they'll lose their first playoff game. And none of the potential wild card teams are all that exciting either. So that leaves the Seahawks, with a weak division and Hasselback and Alexander getting healthy.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Nah...it'll be my beloved Saints losing to the Chargers!

Then they won't make it back to the playoffs for 5 years...


----------



## DaveMage

Chargers will lose in the AFC playoffs because they have Marty Schottenheimer as their coach.  It doesn't matter that they're the best team - Marty will make a conservative decision late in the game that will allow the other team to go down and score for the win.


----------



## Crothian

Bengals beat the Saints in the Super Bowl!!


----------



## Aurora

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Chargers will lose in the AFC playoffs because they have Marty Schottenheimer as their coach.  It doesn't matter that they're the best team - Marty will make a conservative decision late in the game that will allow the other team to go down and score for the win.



I do hope that ultimately you are wrong, but you are right about how Shottenheimer is.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Schottenheimer and former Saints coach Jim Mora (the elder) both are ultraconservative coaches who need the same thing- a guy up in the booth whose only job is to scream red-faced the phrase below into his mike on every play...

"Throw the *BOMB*!  Throw the _*!@%%^Y$%‹‡ﬁﬁÆØ BOMB!*_"


----------



## Seonaid

Bwahahahahaha! Too true, too true . . .


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Of course, even without that, they both assembled impressive (regular season) winning records...

Martyball has resulted in the best active W/L record in football, and Mora could have coached sub-500 football for a decade after his retirement and STILL have been the winningest coach in Saints history.


----------



## kenobi65

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> ...and Mora could have coached sub-500 football for a decade after his retirement and STILL have been the winningest coach in Saints history.




Tallest.  Kobold.  Ever. 

At least the Saints have had a few respectable seasons in the past 20.  Being a Saints fan has got to be slightly less painful than being a Lions or Cardinals fan.  Now *those* guys are masochists.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Over one 10 year stretch, the Saints had the 3rd highest victory total in the NFL, right behind our division rivals (the Montana led) 49ers and the Cowboys.

Except our playoff history...UGH!

In one, they were crushing the Eagles in a defensive struggle- up by 16 at the half.

Then the Philly coaching staff noticed that the Saints' D was cheating their linebackers to the strong side, which was why they had no appreciable rushing yards on the strong side.  So they started running to the weak side in the 2nd half- draws, bounce runs from strong to weak...even weak side screens.

The Saints stayed in their strong-side linebacker shift.

Philly whupped 'em.

In another, after going 13-3 (behind 14-2 San Fran), they folded to the Cinderella Vikings...who also took down the Niners.

Its like they make the playoffs and just go nuts and pass out...then wake up asking "Wha...whahappn?"


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Chargers will lose in the AFC playoffs because they have Marty Schottenheimer as their coach.  It doesn't matter that they're the best team - Marty will make a conservative decision late in the game that will allow the other team to go down and score for the win.




Normally, that'd happen. However, running up the middle with LT works pretty well no matter who you're playing.


----------



## kenobi65

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Over one 10 year stretch, the Saints had the 3rd highest victory total in the NFL, right behind our division rivals (the Montana led) 49ers and the Cowboys.




Back in that era, I was playing in a Strat-o-Matic football league at the University of Wisconsin.  We had enough coaches to play a full NFL schedule (most guys had 1 team, a few of us had 2).  I had the 49ers in the 1988 league (using the 1987 cards).  The guy who coached the Saints would just kick the tar out of most of the other teams he'd play...but when he went up against me, I'd whomp him.  He had to play me twice in the regular season, then again in the playoffs, and all three were blowouts.


----------



## Dungannon

drothgery said:
			
		

> Crazy prediction -- despite all the issues they've had this season, the Seahawks will get back to the Super Bowl (and lose to the Chargers, shocking no one outside of San Diego, where we expect our team to lose).



I would be happy with that scenario.


----------



## John Crichton

The only teams coming out of th AFC for the Super Bowl are the Colts, Bolts or Pats.  All the rest are either too short in some area of their game.

For the NFC - It's a crapshoot.  Dallas is playing the best right now but are beatable.  At this point I would say any of the AFC teams could beat any of the NFC contenders.  Bummer considering I'm a Giants fan.


----------



## Heckler

Crothian said:
			
		

> Bengals beat the Saints in the Super Bowl!!




I like the way you think.

It'll never happen, mind you...


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> The only teams coming out of th AFC for the Super Bowl are the Colts, Bolts or Pats.  All the rest are either too short in some area of their game.




... and really, the Colts are short in a lot of areas of their game, too. It's just that their offense is so good that it usually doesn't matter how bad the defense and special teams are.


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> Normally, that'd happen. However, running up the middle with LT works pretty well no matter who you're playing.




In that case, Marty will make the call for the fullback to get the ball.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> ... and really, the Colts are short in a lot of areas of their game, too. It's just that their offense is so good that it usually doesn't matter how bad the defense and special teams are.



 Certainly, and I'll break it down further:

The Colts are weak against the run up the middle.  Their offense is simply awesome.  Addai had his carries reduced last week against the Titans because he's a rookie.  Dungy is already starting to throttle down a bit in preperation for the playoffs.  They are not in a position like they were last year to pull their big starters in the last 3-4 games but their will, as Bill Simmons (http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?page=simmons/nfl/061020) says, pull a Milton Burle as much as they can until the playoffs start.

The Bolts have an overrated defense and their coach is a historical playoff choke artist.  They also have the best player in the league not named Peyton Manning.  Rivers looks good and he has a ton of weapons.  Again, Marty Ball works for about 16 games a year.  It's that 17+ that's the problem...

The Pats have no offensive weapons with the exception of Brady.  His targets can be shut down and they almost have to be perfect to put points on the board against a good defense.  The running game is a plus but we'll see about Maroney.  They are like the anti-Bolts/Colts.  They have an excellent coach who can make his defense play better than they are able to.  They have just enough playmakers there to be tough.  A winning coach/clutch QB combo is a powerful thing which puts the Pats in the mix.  I'd worry about their offense and kicking game.

That said, I'd take any 3 of those teams against the Bears, Seahawks, Cowboys, Saints, Giants, etc.  It hurts to see the NFC bow so low.  The Bears have an awesome defense but they *have* to score in order to win as the offense is pathetic.  The Saints need to prove that they are for real and the Seahawks need to prove that they are healthy.  The Cowboys are playing excellent and inspired football but they can be beat as the Giants/Redskins proved.  And the Giants simply can't get out of their own way and are an implosion in process.


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> In that case, Marty will make the call for the fullback to get the ball.



No, no.  He'll give it to Tomlinson, but too much.  He'll refuse to do play action and just go to screens and the like.


----------



## jonathan swift

John Crichton said:
			
		

> The Bolts have an overrated defense and their coach is a historical playoff choke artist.  They also have the best player in the league not named Peyton Manning.





You mean they have the best player in the league?

I'd take LT over Peyton any day of the week. Heck, Peyton isn't even the top QB I'd take if I was starting an NFL team. Give me a Brady who can make any receiver look golden over someone who falls to pieces and starts blaming everyone around him as soon as anything goes wrong.

Talk about a playoff choke artist.


----------



## DaveMage

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Talk about a playoff choke artist.




So...what you're saying is that Peyton Manning should be playing for Schottenheimer.


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> You mean they have the best player in the league?



That is a valid arguement.  I typically sway towards QBs if they are as good as Peyton as they effect every offensive play as opposed to the 30 touches that a star RB gets.  That said, if either of those two go down with injury the team is dead.



			
				jonathan swift said:
			
		

> I'd take LT over Peyton any day of the week. Heck, Peyton isn't even the top QB I'd take if I was starting an NFL team. Give me a Brady who can make any receiver look golden over someone who falls to pieces and starts blaming everyone around him as soon as anything goes wrong.



I love Brady as a QB (hate the Pats), he is as clutch as they come.  He has the rings to prove it.  That said, you give Peyton Brady's defense, coach and kicker and this is a different conversation.



			
				jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Talk about a playoff choke artist.



When has he cost his team the game in the playoffs?  Check out the defensive performances and witness his kicker botch the Steelers game last year.  You are putting too much blame on a QB who has little to no impact on how the defense performs and forgetting that Brady's Pats were balanced teams that didn't need him all the time to win.  The arguement could be made that Vinatieri + Defense was just as important as Brady in their SB wins.

Put it this way:  Think about Brady having the Colts Defense and imagine if they would have beaten the Rams, Carolina or Philly.  Or even made the Super Bowl any of those years.

And don't forget that Belichick is a much better coach than Dungy.  He does more with less.


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> So...what you're saying is that Peyton Manning should be playing for Schottenheimer.



 That would be better for Marty.  Peyton wouldn't stand for his conservative play calling.  He'd just audable to passes and draws all day long.


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> And don't forget that Belichick is a much better coach than Dungy.  He does more with less.




Really? Dungy built a consistent playoff team in Tampa with just a defense worth of talent -- which someone else won a Super Bowl with the next year, and promptly disintegrated the year after that. And then Dungy went to Indy, where he's got an offense and a pass rush specialist. And he's consistently had the best regular season in the AFC, and has rarely fallen in the playoffs to anyone other than the eventual Super Bowl winner.

Belicheck has had fewer superstars, but that hardly means they had less talent. Especially in 2003 and 2004, the Pats have been above average on offense, defense, and special teams (though the main advantage of Venitari over Vanderjagt was not 'being clutch', it was on kickoffs, where he was much better than either Vanderjagt or the dedicated kickoff specialists the Colts started bringing in). He has more to do with the Pats success than Dungy does with the Colts, but that's only because he's wearing a GM hat as well; someone else is in that role in Indy.


----------



## Gunslinger

Crothian said:
			
		

> Bengals beat the Saints in the Super Bowl!!




The Bengals were my preseason pick to win the Super Bowl, though I didn't put any money on them.  They would have won it last year if Carson Palmer hadn't gotten injured.


----------



## Crothian

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> The Bengals were my preseason pick to win the Super Bowl, though I didn't put any money on them.  They would have won it last year if Carson Palmer hadn't gotten injured.




They would have had a better chance but nothing is ever that certain in the NFL.  

These Thursday and Saturday games on the NFL network is just dumb.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> Really?



Yes!  



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Dungy built a consistent playoff team in Tampa with just a defense worth of talent -- which someone else won a Super Bowl with the next year, and promptly disintegrated the year after that.



You just made a point against Dungy.  He put the team together but didn't win the SB with them.  And in this era, the win and collapse the following season bug has hit everyone not coached by Belichick.  And even the Pats had a bad season in there, too.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> And then Dungy went to Indy, where he's got an offense and a pass rush specialist. And he's consistently had the best regular season in the AFC, and has rarely fallen in the playoffs to anyone other than the eventual Super Bowl winner.



It's an okay point, but Dungy has no Super Bowl rings and Belichick owned him in the playoffs.  One of the reasons last year's collapse was so brutal for the Colts was because the Pats were gone and they would have had home field.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Belichick has had fewer superstars, but that hardly means they had less talent. Especially in 2003 and 2004, the Pats have been above average on offense, defense, and special teams (though the main advantage of Venitari over Vanderjagt was not 'being clutch', it was on kickoffs, where he was much better than either Vanderjagt or the dedicated kickoff specialists the Colts started bringing in). He has more to do with the Pats success than Dungy does with the Colts, but that's only because he's wearing a GM hat as well; someone else is in that role in Indy.



While the impact on kickoffs is a valid point, you have to look again to defense.  The Pats could stifle Manning but the Colts D could not do the same to the comparatively conservative Pats.

As for the GM hats, I don't buy it.  The coach has plenty of input on personnel choices and the fact that Belichick does both in New England solidifies him even further as a better coach and personnel man.  He doing more with less time if you want to look at it from that angle.

And the most important differences between the two are that Belichick has 3 rings as a head coach and 2 as an assistant.  Dungy has one - as a player.  Head to head, who would you rather have prepping and coaching your team?  The guy who was mentored by Bill Parcells, won Super Bowls with him and then went on to build the league's modern day dynasty or the guy with no rings and lots of losses including zero Super Bowl appearances?

Mind you, I hate the Pats, Brady and want Peyton to get his ring by going through the Pats.  Dungy also seems like a great guy and probably deserves a SB win.  Doesn't change the fact that he's not a better coach than Belichick.


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> And the most important differences between the two are that Belichick has 3 rings as a head coach and 2 as an assistant.  Dungy has one - as a player.  Head to head, who would you rather have prepping and coaching your team?  The guy who was mentored by Bill Parcells, won Super Bowls with him and then went on to build the league's modern day dynasty or the guy with no rings and lots of losses including zero Super Bowl appearances?




I'm really sick of the 'championships uber alles' measuring stick of coaches and players (especially quarterbacks). Tony Dungy is a much better coach than Mike Martz. Peyton Manning is a much better quarterback than Trent Dilfer. That the latter have won Super Bowls and the former haven't isn't going to change this.


----------



## Crothian

I agree, if Championships determined who was the best Otto Grahm would be tops.


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> I'm really sick of the 'championships uber alles' measuring stick of coaches and players (especially quarterbacks). Tony Dungy is a much better coach than Mike Martz. Peyton Manning is a much better quarterback than Trent Dilfer. That the latter have won Super Bowls and the former haven't isn't going to change this.




Gotta disagree.

How a player and coach perform at crunch time is the MOST telling factor.

Players and coaches can pad stats against loser teams during the regular season, but if you can't win at crunch time, what good is it?  

I will add, though, that you can really only judge such a player or coach after their career is over.  Right now, Peyton Manning looks like a choker.  If he wins a Super Bowl or two, he will cement himself as one of (if not THE) greatest ever.  But if he can't win the big one, all the stats are meaningless.

(However, your point about Dilfer is a good one.   I'd argue, though, that Dilfer just happened to be along for the ride.)


----------



## Aurora

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Gotta disagree.
> 
> How a player and coach perform at crunch time is the MOST telling factor.
> 
> Players and coaches can pad stats against loser teams during the regular season, but if you can't win at crunch time, what good is it?
> 
> I will add, though, that you can really only judge such a player or coach after their career is over.  Right now, Peyton Manning looks like a choker.  If he wins a Super Bowl or two, he will cement himself as one of (if not THE) greatest ever.  But if he can't win the big one, all the stats are meaningless.
> 
> (However, your point about Dilfer is a good one.   I'd argue, though, that Dilfer just happened to be along for the ride.)



I have to agree with this. Especially the padding stats against loser teams. For example, Cowher is known by some for being a "winning coach that can't win the big game" He finally took his team to a Super Bowl and won, but I think it will take a couple more wins of that or close to that caliber for him to completely shake that rep. (This year isn't helping)
Speaking of the Steelers, big game tonight. We have a friend who is a Browns fan coming over tonight to watch with us. So, him and DShai are gonna be ripping at eachother the whole night. LOL With Ward, Wilson, and Polamalu out though I am not real optimistic as to the Steelers' fate this evening.


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Gotta disagree.
> 
> How a player and coach perform at crunch time is the MOST telling factor.




'Clutch' performance is a myth perpetrated by coaches and sportswriters, who really want 'clutch players' to exist. But in the long run, they really don't. There are just players who had good luck at the right time.



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> Players and coaches can pad stats against loser teams during the regular season, but if you can't win at crunch time, what good is it?




Maybe in college football or the pre-salary cap NFL, you can do that. In the modern NFL, loser teams can and will beat you if you have a bad day -- even if you're among the best teams in the history in the game.



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> I will add, though, that you can really only judge such a player or coach after their career is over.  Right now, Peyton Manning looks like a choker.  If he wins a Super Bowl or two, he will cement himself as one of (if not THE) greatest ever.  But if he can't win the big one, all the stats are meaningless.




And Dan Marino and Dan Fouts aren't among the best QBs ever to play the game. Got it. 

Charles Barkley wasn't an amazing basketball player. Neither was Karl Malone. 

Trevor Hoffman? Mediocre.

Jim Boeheim had accomplished absolutely nothing at Syracuse before 2003.


----------



## Crothian

Footballs is a team sport, a QB needs other people to win no matter how good he happens to be.  Elway is the perfect example of that.  He couldn't win until he got a very good running game.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> I'm really sick of the 'championships uber alles' measuring stick of coaches and players (especially quarterbacks).



You can be sick of it all you want.  Success is measured by championships for coaches.  That's what I was talking about: Dungy vs. Belichick.  Manning vs. Brady is a completely different discussion.  They are different types of QBs.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Tony Dungy is a much better coach than Mike Martz.



I'd agree with that but neither one of them has a Super Bowl ring as a head coach.  Martz won one as the offensive coordinator under Dick Vermeil.  At least Martz got his team to a Super Bowl.  He lost to Belichick when he was the favorite.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Peyton Manning is a much better quarterback than Trent Dilfer.  That the latter have won Super Bowls and the former haven't isn't going to change this.



Well, yes of course he is.  QBs are a different discussion than coaches.  Manning is going down as one of the all time greats.  But to this point will be viewed by many as overrated until he gets a ring.


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> 'Clutch' performance is a myth perpetrated by coaches and sportswriters, who really want 'clutch players' to exist. But in the long run, they really don't. There are just players who had good luck at the right time.




Adam Viniteri = Clutch
Mike Vanderjact = Choker

Vanderjact is the all-time FG% leader.

I'll take Viniteri anytime, thanks.

Dan Fouts?  I was a huge Fouts fan in the 80s.  In the clutch?  No way.  Choked every time.  (Yeah, it was really cold in Cincinnati that one year, but Cincinnati had to play in it too.)   I'm sure he'd have traded all the yards for 1 championship.  

I think it's stunning that Marino never won a championship.  But again, what are all the records worth if you can't get it done in the playoffs?  

Both Fouts and Marino had great talent - no question.  But all the talent in the world is meaningless if you don't *win* with it.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> 'Clutch' performance is a myth perpetrated by coaches and sportswriters, who really want 'clutch players' to exist. But in the long run, they really don't. There are just players who had good luck at the right time.



So you are just chalking performances on the biggest stages in sports as luck?  Why bother even watching sports if you are taking that attitude?



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Maybe in college football or the pre-salary cap NFL, you can do that. In the modern NFL, loser teams can and will beat you if you have a bad day -- even if you're among the best teams in the history in the game.



It's all about pressure.  Sure, any lowly team *can* beat the best team in the league and it happens but it has been happening way before the salary cap era.  But in the postseason, that's when players tend to get a bit tighter.  A regular season game that means nothing more than a win/loss vs being eliminated from your season is a big deal.  Greatness is measured by the postseason.  It is not the only measuring stick but it's where to start.  Some great players never get the chance on the big stage and so we only have their regular seasons to go on.  But when they get their chance to play in the big one, they need to come through.

Putting a bad/good performance on "luck" is silly and negates results either way.  There is a reason why there are winners and losers and has much more do with results than simple timing and luck.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Charles Barkley wasn't an amazing basketball player. Neither was Karl Malone.



Both were good enough to lose to Jordan.  Take from that what you will.  They were excellent in the regular season and during the early rounds of season 2 of the NBA (aka - when the playoffs start).  Not so much in the semis & finals.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Trevor Hoffman? Mediocre.



When has Hoffman come through in a big game on a big stage?  He got destroyed in the World Series he was in.  He knows how to close games in the regular season but he's not good when it really counts.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Jim Boeheim had accomplished absolutely nothing at Syracuse before 2003.



He built the program and is an excellent coach.  The championship cemented his status.  Until that point he was a coach who couldn't win the big one.

Championships are the equalizer when comparing contemporaries in the same sport/position.  It's really that simple.  It's all about winning.


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> So you are just chalking performances on the biggest stages in sports as luck?  Why bother even watching sports if you are taking that attitude?




When someone's playing much better -- or worse -- in a single game than they have over the course of their entire career, well, random factors have a lot to do with it. Sorry, but when it seems like someone's consistently better in the playoffs, it's almost always actually a side effect of a small sample size. Given enough games, their playoff numbers would look a lot like their regular season numbers.



			
				John Crichton said:
			
		

> When has Hoffman come through in a big game on a big stage?  He got destroyed in the World Series he was in.  He knows how to close games in the regular season but he's not good when it really counts.




No, the Padres weren't particullarly good, so he got few chances to 'be good when it counts'; the few times they've made the playoffs, it's been with barely-above-.500 teams. The consensus best closer in the game has blown the World Series for his team. But because the Yankees massively outspend everyone else, he gets a shot at the playoffs almost every year.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> When someone's playing much better -- or worse -- in a single game than they have over the course of their entire career, well, random factors have a lot to do with it. Sorry, but when it seems like someone's consistently better in the playoffs, it's almost always actually a side effect of a small sample size. Given enough games, their playoff numbers would look a lot like their regular season numbers.



This is simply inaccurate.  To say that there aren't players who either thrive or wilt under pressure is to not understand sports.  The fact that the postseason is typically a smaller sample size changes the parameters of things like motivation and pressure, both which directly effect anyone playing sports.  Sure, there are some that can block it out and they are the all-time greats.  If the playoffs were like the regular season there would be no reason to have playoffs, which is why the uber-long NBA & NHL playoffs are underwhelming.

Performing when it is do or die is much different than when it is not.  Hence choakers and clutch players.  Some people just can't do it on the big stage.  Others need the spotlight to shine.

You can dismiss it all you like but I'm assuming you've played sports or at least competitive games.  Ever play for a championship, money, local title or the like?  It's a different environment than a regular game.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> No, the Padres weren't particullarly good, so he got few chances to 'be good when it counts'; the few times they've made the playoffs, it's been with barely-above-.500 teams. The consensus best closer in the game has blown the World Series for his team. But because the Yankees massively outspend everyone else, he gets a shot at the playoffs almost every year.



I'm not talking about Rivera (or the Yanks for that matter) who has proven that he's a big-time closer and the best ever.  Yes, he can and has been beaten but it doesn't change the fact that he was one of the huge reasons the Yanks won 4 times in 5 years.

I'm talking about Hoffman getting killed in the WS in his one chance and giving up 5 runs in 13 postseason innings (not good for a closer).  A pitcher can control his environment which is a huge difference between a bloop hit winning the World Series and a 3-run homer to win a WS game.  Hoffman enough appearances in the postseason to show that he can't get it done on the big stage. He's not scaring anyone.

A save in the postseason is a much bigger deal than a save in the regular season.  Give Hoffman enough chances in the postseason and he'll continue to underwhelm.


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> This is simply inaccurate.  To say that there aren't players who either thrive or wilt under pressure is to not understand sports.




No, it's to not buy the myths of sports that have no foundation.

Coaches, fans, writers, and players desperately want to believe that there are 'clutch players' (mostly to favor people that they like, as opposed to people with better regular season stats). But there's simply no evidence that there is such at thing, at least in the highest levels of profestional sports.

Did John Elway go from being a non-clutch player to a clutch player in his final two seasons, or did the Broncos just have a better team? I'd say it's the latter.

Did Ameile Mauresmo suddenly figure out how to not choke in big matches this year (where she won two grand slams, after losing in lots of semifinals and finals throughout her career before this year), or was she just playing better this year? I'd bet it's the latter.


----------



## Crothian

And to take it the other way is Breet Favre now not a Clutch player?  Or is he always going to be seen a Clutch even though he's not winning championships or going to the playoffs.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> And to take it the other way is Breet Favre now not a Clutch player?  Or is he always going to be seen a Clutch even though he's not winning championships or going to the playoffs.



At a certain point, you have to take age and the quality of the team around a player.  Farve was tremendous in his day.  It is no longer his day.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> No, it's to not buy the myths of sports that have no foundation.



You call it myth, I call it the human condition or simply emotions.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Coaches, fans, writers, and players desperately want to believe that there are 'clutch players' (mostly to favor people that they like, as opposed to people with better regular season stats). But there's simply no evidence that there is such at thing, at least in the highest levels of profestional sports.



I'm going to ask for proof of this statement here.  There are most certainly players who perform at a higher level with the spotlight on.  They need it and thrive on it.  Others wilt.  They are called chokers.  The ones that excell are typically labelled as clutch if they do it enough times.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Did John Elway go from being a non-clutch player to a clutch player in his final two seasons, or did the Broncos just have a better team? I'd say it's the latter.



Elway was a very good QB known for his 4th quarter comebacks.  In his later years he finally got a star running back and elevated his game.  Football is not the best sport to measure individual efforts as there are more players on the field that in any of the other major sports.  Kickers are a big exception because of the individual plays and limited opportunities they get.  Elway was a player who made clutch plays over the course of his career but he needed the right system and a running back to win the big one.  That is usually the case with football.  The bottom line in this situation was that Denver needed someone to make the big plays when it counted and Elway was there to do it.



			
				drothgery said:
			
		

> Did Ameile Mauresmo suddenly figure out how to not choke in big matches this year (where she won two grand slams, after losing in lots of semifinals and finals throughout her career before this year), or was she just playing better this year? I'd bet it's the latter.



It could be that the competition wasn't as good.  I don't follow the sport.


----------



## jonathan swift

Today's game so far is a perfect example of how panicky Peyton Manning gets when things aren't going his way. Half his passes in the second half haven't been anywhere close to catchable.


----------



## Crothian

Bengals looking good.  Indy is getting spanked hard.  Giants are looking like they may get that all important win.  New England also losing.  KC losing which is good.  Lots of interesting things happeneing today!!


----------



## jonathan swift

Crothian said:
			
		

> Bengals looking good.  Indy is getting spanked hard.  Giants are looking like they may get that all important win.  New England also losing.  KC losing which is good.  Lots of interesting things happeneing today!!




Definately a big day in the AFC. Things will really start shaking out in the AFC once today is over.


----------



## Crothian

Chargers are just looking amazing.  If they can avoid the Ravens they might just make it to a Superbowl win.


----------



## DaveMage

Jaguars 44
Colts 17

Doesn't get any better than that....



...ok, yes it does...

Jaguars with 375 yards rushing.    

Woohoo!


----------



## John Crichton

Cowboys go down hard.  Excellent.

G-men and Philly still in the hunt for the NFC East Title and certainly the playoffs.  Big battle next week in the Meadowlands.

I'm looking forward to Indy's return to normal next week when their receivers don't drop every pass throw to them and maybe get into an entertaining shootout.  It's been a while since Peyton had 5 TDs...


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Cowboys go down hard.  Excellent.




Bwah-ha-ha-ha!  Who dat tink dey gonna beat dem Saints?

And, the Pack didn't lay an egg for once!


----------



## Gunslinger

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I'm looking forward to Indy's return to normal next week when their receivers don't drop every pass throw to them and maybe get into an entertaining shootout.  It's been a while since Peyton had 5 TDs...




What's the over/under for next Monday night?  70? 80?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Colts...not looking good in the late season for some reason...Oh wait- they have no run defense!

Again, someone annoyed the Chargers and paid the price.  I'm thinking that to beat them, you have to shoot LT with a tranq dart.  The man is going to finish the season with more TDs than some teams will have dropped passes.

Oh yeah- GO SAINTS!

Funny thing- thanks to the vagaries of chance, the 2 teams that were playing tonight as foes will be cheering each other next week, when the Cowboys play the Falcons and the Saints play the Redskins.


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Colts...not looking good in the late season for some reason...Oh wait- they have no run defense!



Ain't that the truth.  The rest of the D isn't lookin' too hot either.  That team simply isn't built to play from behind at all.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Again, someone annoyed the Chargers and paid the price.  I'm thinking that to beat them, you have to shoot LT with a tranq dart.  The man is going to finish the season with more TDs than some teams will have dropped passes.



He's an amazing player in an incredible offense.  They have to be the favorite to go to the Super Bowl right now with both the Colts and Pats looking terrible.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Funny thing- thanks to the vagaries of chance, the 2 teams that were playing tonight as foes will be cheering each other next week, when the Cowboys play the Falcons and the Saints play the Redskins.



The 'Boys will certainly not be routing for the Saints against the Skins.  They will want NO to lose so they have a shot at the 2 seed.  And vice versa.  The Falcons are in no position to make a run at the NFC unless the Saints fall apart and if that is the case, they won't be worried about seeding.  So the Saints will want Dallas to go down so they have a bye plus a home game in the playoffs.

And as it stands right now, the two best teams in their respective conferences are the Saints (leapfrogging Dallas) and Chargers (getting stronger as the season grows longer).  It should be an interesting last 3 weeks to see how the seedings pan out and if any key injuries come into play.  Could be the Brees Bowl this year.  QB plays his former team and the rookie QB he mentored for 2 seasons.

Not what I'm looking for as a Giants fan, mind you, but that's the week 14 view of things from where I sit.


----------



## John Crichton

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> What's the over/under for next Monday night?  70? 80?



 Good question.  I'd put it at 75 right now.  Manning at home on Monday night.  Palmer and Ocho Cinco in a dome - on Monday night.  All kinda of playoff implications for both teams.

The only thing that will stink about the game is the ESPN presentation and the booth announcers + too many special guests.


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> The only thing that will stink about the game is the ESPN presentation and the booth announcers + too many special guests.




Agreed.

Man I hate their broadcast now....


----------



## Crothian

It doesn't bother me as much after they got rid of the one guy from last year.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> It doesn't bother me as much after they got rid of the one guy from last year.



 Which one?

And the guests that they have in the booth that take up almost a whole quarter don't annoy you?  They keep cutting to the booth for interviews, concentrate less on the game and aren't even talking about football most of the time.


----------



## Crothian

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Which one?




I think it was McGuire he does college football stuff now



> And the guests that they have in the booth that take up almost a whole quarter don't annoy you?  They keep cutting to the booth for interviews, concentrate less on the game and aren't even talking about football most of the time.




MNF always had this during the slow parts of the game.  It's better then Madden going off on one of his pointess confusing rants.


----------



## Alaric_Prympax

John Crichton said:
			
		

> The only thing that will stink about the game is the ESPN presentation and the booth announcers + too many special guests.




Theismann has got to be the worst color commentator ever on MNF.  I haven't liked him... well... ever as a sports announcer.

Kornheiser is also awful.  I wish he and Theismann would just be quiet.

Tirico is the only good one but he is surrounded by two terrible analysts, it would be a better if he was the only one speaking in the booth.

Kolber and Tafoya do a good job as well.

All of the above IMO of course.

Oh, and GO SAINTS !!!!


----------



## Crothian

I like Kornheiser, I've always enjoyed his sense of humor.  Theismann is not that good, but not annoying to me which is important.


----------



## kenobi65

Tirico and Sterling Sharpe did a game for ESPN last year, when they had two games on a Sunday night, for some reason, and he struck me as really good in that game.   Which means that at least one of the following was true:
(a) He was just better than normal that night
(b) He's getting different direction now that he's a headliner on Monday night, and result of that direction is ticking off the serious football fan
(c) He's suffering from a bad pairing with Kornheiser and Theismann.

I just can't believe that ESPN stuck with Theismann.  That old Sunday night crew, with him, Paul McGuire, and Mike Patrick, was excruciating to listen to.  I'm astounded that any of them still have jobs announcing (Patrick and McGuire are now doing college ball for ESPN).

As for Kornheiser...I enjoy him in PTI.  I think he's still struggling to figure out how to fit into the booth.

And, oy, those celebrity interviews.  ESPN has said that they're staying, that they're important for attracting the casual fan...but, boy, they detract from the game.  The one with Brian Bosworth a few weeks ago, when Seattle and Green Bay were playing, was particularly bad...his 15 minutes of fame ended a long long time ago, and he had nothing to say.  Tonight, we'll be treated to Jim Belushi, who they drag out *every time* the Bears play, because Jimbo has a show on ABC.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> MNF always had this during the slow parts of the game.  It's better then Madden going off on one of his pointess confusing rants.



They occassionally had someone in the booth, but it was only for a little bit.  And it rarely detracted from the game.  They way they are doing it now is much more and they are in there for about 15 minutes.  The producers have flat out said they people don't want to watch 3 hours of football.

What!?!?

It's the most popular sport in America.  Ugh.  Just show the dang game.  Talk about the game.  It's why people watch the game.  If we wanted interviews with celebs we'd turn on E! or somesuch...


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> And, oy, those celebrity interviews.  ESPN has said that they're staying, that they're important for attracting the casual fan...but, boy, they detract from the game.  The one with Brian Bosworth a few weeks ago, when Seattle and Green Bay were playing, was particularly bad...his 15 minutes of fame ended a long long time ago, and he had nothing to say.  Tonight, we'll be treated to Jim Belushi, who they drag out *every time* the Bears play, because Jimbo has a show on ABC.



Bleh.

As much as I like Rocky, that Stallone but last week was terrible.  None of them have been good.  I recall a Giants game earlier in the year when they had Ronde Barber in the booth.  I couldn't take it.  Too much Tiki-talk.  Enough already.  Just give us the game.

It's bad enough when it's a game where I am just watching as a football fan.  But when it's the Giants playing it's just awful.  I can only imagine it's the same for other fans of specific teams.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Crothian said:
			
		

> Footballs is a team sport, a QB needs other people to win no matter how good he happens to be.  Elway is the perfect example of that.  He couldn't win until he got a very good running game.




And yet people continue to blame Jake for why the Panthers keep screwing up, especially in the 3rd quarter....


----------



## Gunslinger

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Bleh.
> 
> As much as I like Rocky, that Stallone but last week was terrible.  None of them have been good.  I recall a Giants game earlier in the year when they had Ronde Barber in the booth.  I couldn't take it.  Too much Tiki-talk.  Enough already.  Just give us the game.




At least Stallone actually seemed to be into the game, unlike most of the other guests they've had who just treat it like any other interview on a talk show.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Agreed.
> 
> Man I hate their broadcast now....




Could be worse.... two words: Dennis Miller. 

*makes sick green facial expression*


----------



## Crothian

Miller was at least entertaining.


----------



## John Crichton

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> At least Stallone actually seemed to be into the game, unlike most of the other guests they've had who just treat it like any other interview on a talk show.



 He did, that's true.  But he lost me when he said that he routed for both the Eagles and Giants.  That's just unnatural.

Does change that they kept talking about anything but the game being played.


----------



## jonathan swift

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> And yet people continue to blame Jake for why the Panthers keep screwing up, especially in the 3rd quarter....





That's more bad play calling. I go back to TMQ's law: sometimes the best thing a team can do is run up the middle for no-gain.


----------



## jonathan swift

And speaking of announcers, I'll take any booth team even with dumb special guests over John Madden any day of the week. Double bubble indeed.


----------



## kenobi65

Hint to the Buccaneers, for next Sunday:

Don't kick to Devin Hester.  Really.

Crikey, the guy got a TD on a kickoff when he didn't even have the regular blockers in front of him.  Wow.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Madden cracks me up- always has, always will.  He's like a favorite Uncle who knows a lot about the game, but still mocks it...sometimes intentionally, sometimes not.  Listening to him reminds me of the old Batman TV show..."BAM!" "POW!" (without which there could be no "Jacked UP!")

Theisman's disgust with the state of the rules protecting the QBs of the game fascinates me.  That a man who had his career cut short in such a particularly ugly injury still talks about how the position is currently overprotected speaks volumes to me.

Kornheiser?  I prefer Miller, but he's OK.  However, I have had enough of the non-sports celebrity interviews.  If somebody's going to be interviewed during the game, he or she had better be an athelete of note...even if its just Brian Bosworth hawking a new action movie.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> That's more bad play calling. I go back to TMQ's law: sometimes the best thing a team can do is run up the middle for no-gain.




I've got friends who say they should get rid of Dan Henning (offensive coordinator) for the past couple of years. 

They've got to do something to get the team back into playing mentality rather than whatever the heck mentality they've got going on now.

And from what I've heard, Weinke didn't do much better.... but then wonder how much of that was rustiness.... (didn't watch the game).


----------



## Darth K'Trava

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> And speaking of announcers, I'll take any booth team even with dumb special guests over John Madden any day of the week. Double bubble indeed.




I like John Madden. I'll take him over Dennis Miller any day. Miller got me to quit watching MNF until he got removed from it.

Madden, while he may have his "little rants", explains the game where people like me who's not a "Football Rules Lawyer" can understand it.

Just like those refs who explain the penalty to the audience. Makes it easier to tell what happened.


----------



## Crothian

Lots of playoff teams still have the dream in both conferences.  Things are looking exciting!!


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> Lots of playoff teams still have the dream in both conferences.  Things are looking exciting!!




Indy-Cincy this week should be quite a game.

Dallas-Atlanta & Philly-NYG should be a great ones too.


----------



## scrubkai

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Hint to the Buccaneers, for next Sunday:
> 
> Don't kick to Devin Hester.  Really.
> 
> Crikey, the guy got a TD on a kickoff when he didn't even have the regular blockers in front of him.  Wow.





What the 108 yard missed field goal return against the Giants didn't clue you into that?   

As a Bears fan, all I can say is it's a shame that had to happen on MNF.  Now the whole country knows what Deven Hester can do...  I was praying that someone missed that and gave us a few more gifts in the playoffs.  After all, we need something to make up for the 3 missing pro bowlers on Defense and a Good/Bad play of Grossman


----------



## kenobi65

scrubkai said:
			
		

> What the 108 yard missed field goal return against the Giants didn't clue you into that?




That one was impressive, too.

Hester is reminding me a lot of the impact that Desmond Howard (same initials, even  ) had on the Super Bowl Packers in '96.  IIRC, he returned 3 punts for TDs during the regular season, another one during the playoffs against San Francisco, and then sealed the Super Bowl win with a kickoff return.  He could break one at any time, and he really turned games around.


----------



## John Crichton

Okay, folks - time to crack this one up again.  Game tonight.  Seattle actually needs this win pretty badly.  A loss tonight will virtually eliminate them for a shot at being the 2 seed if the Saints win.  I'll turn the game on in the 2nd quarter to see what is up.

As the regular season winds to a close (only 3 weeks left!) I try to soak in as many games as possible.  It's just too bad that almost all the division races are wrapped up and so we are left with just wild card races.

I happy that the NFC East is still competitive and may have 3 playoff teams (Dallas, Philly, NY).  It's too bad that none of them can be considered threats to win it all.  But considering how much things change in a few weeks, the playoffs and even perceptions of these teams could be much different.

The AFC is very interesting.  I want to see the Colts put up a big effort this week.  I want to see if KC can take the fight to the Chargers who are the current favorite to win it all.  How about the Pats?  What happens if they lose to Houston?  They should easily win this game at home.  Can the Jets stay alive for a wild card spot?

Actually, there are only a few games that hold no interest for me right now as they have very little impact on the playoffs or no interesting sub-plots to speak of -

Miami @ Buffalo
St. Louis @ Oakland
Detroit @ Green Bay
Pittsburgh @ Carolina

And some of those I do have interest in but only for fantasy leagues.  

Must watch (times EST):

Dallas @ Atlanta - 8pm Saturday
Washington @ New Orleans - 1pm Sunday
Philly @ NY - 4pm Sunday
Kansas City @ San Diego - 8:15pm Sunday
Cincinnati @ Indy - 8:30pm Monday

I picked one game for each of the Sunday slots and just about all of the night games are gonna be fun.


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Must watch (times EST):
> 
> Dallas @ Atlanta - 8pm Saturday
> Washington @ New Orleans - 1pm Sunday
> Philly @ NY - 4pm Sunday
> Kansas City @ San Diego - 8:15pm Sunday
> Cincinnati @ Indy - 8:30pm Monday
> 
> I picked one game for each of the Sunday slots and just about all of the night games are gonna be fun.




Yeah, good stuff.

I'm pulling for San Diego and Cincinnati in their respective games, but the others I'll just watch for some good football.


----------



## Crothian

Looks like that losing the Super bowl curse might be catching on in Seattle.


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Looks like that losing the Super bowl curse might be catching on in Seattle.




Nice fourth-quarter hairball there, Hawks.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

As much as I dislike the Cowboys, I'd still have to consider them a legitimate threat to win.

The way they lose is by getting penalties- dumb ones in bunches.  If they don't self-destruct, they have all the weapons they need to play anyone in the league.

They have a new QB who seems to understand how the game is played, and Bledsoe as backup is still dangerous.  If he goes in, the Coaches need to remember he's not young & mobile, and start running a West-Coast style offense...short passes & good running.

They have TO, an older reciever who, if he's on, is probably still one of the top 3 most dangerous in the league.  Their younger recievers are also flashing some quality.

Their TE is probably one of the top 5, and while young, the RB Jones is starting to look like a good all-around back.

Oh yeah...*GO SAINTS!*


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> As much as I dislike the Cowboys, I'd still have to consider them a legitimate threat to win.



To win the Super Bowl?  Make the playoffs?  Win the East?  I'll assume Super Bowl for now because they are a now team...



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> The way they lose is by getting penalties- dumb ones in bunches.  If they don't self-destruct, they have all the weapons they need to play anyone in the league.



Penalties didn't really play any role in the Saints game.  I think the Giants have a bigger problem with penalties than the Cowboys do even though they aren't great either.  The Giants had 4 false starts - at home.  *ugh*

They do have weapons, but their defense is overrated and can be scored on.  



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> They have a new QB who seems to understand how the game is played, and Bledsoe as backup is still dangerous.  If he goes in, the Coaches need to remember he's not young & mobile, and start running a West-Coast style offense...short passes & good running.



Romo is neither as good as he's played (against mostly bad defenses) or as bad as he looked (against the Saints and Giants).  In all, he's a rookie QB who can be prone to mistakes.  As for Bledsoe?  The Cowboys are dead if he ever has to come in a game in the playoffs.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> They have TO, an older reciever who, if he's on, is probably still one of the top 3 most dangerous in the league.  Their younger recievers are also flashing some quality.



I'd say was, now.  He drops too many easy balls.  He can be a gamebreaker both ways, but is no sure thing anymore.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Their TE is probably one of the top 5, and while young, the RB Jones is starting to look like a good all-around back.



He is?  Take away his long run from last week's game and he still looks like a #2 behind Marion Barber.

The Cowboys are still in the mix as one of the better teams in the NFC as they do have talent plus an experienced coach.  But they are too inconsistent right now to be a legit threat for a Super Bowl title.  At this point, they would be playing too many games on the road.  That said, the only team that looks good are the Saints followed by the Bears who have no offense.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The Saints game was a blessed aberration- most of the 'Boys' losses can be attributed to penalties.

-- Entering Sunday's game against New Orleans, Dallas ranks fourth in the NFL with 103 penalties and is 39 shy of breaking the team record of 141 penalties set in 1988.

-- The Cowboys have 28 penalties for 281 yards in the past two (pre-NO) games.

-- Their 15 penalties against Seattle was the third-highest total in team history and two shy of the franchise record set in 1988 against Cleveland.

-- The 152 penalty yards against Minnesota on Thanksgiving Day was the third-highest total in team history, nine yards shy of the team record set in 1970 against Washington.

-- The penalty yardage is on pace (1,199) to be the highest total in franchise history. The record of 1,148 was set in 1988.

-- From 1989-1996, the Cowboys had 100 yards of penalties twice. They've done it three times this season.

--Julius Jones has the 13th highest rushing yards total in the league- not bad for a rookie, and nearly 2x Barber's total.  He's on a pace to get over 1200 yards this year.

--Witten is 5th in the league in receptions, 7th in total yards, 9th in Yards/catch, and tied for 8th in 1st downs for TEs...and the ones ahead of him in those various categories vary a bit.

--Romo isn't a rookie, he's a 4th year vet who knows the system but hasn't started until this year.

--TO, like I said, is as dangerous as any other reciever _if he's playing his best_- when he's off, he's horrible.  Like the former QB for my Saints, Aaron Brooks, he can break a game...either way.


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> The Saints game was a blessed aberration- most of the 'Boys' losses can be attributed to penalties.
> 
> -- Entering Sunday's game against New Orleans, Dallas ranks fourth in the NFL with 103 penalties and is 39 shy of breaking the team record of 141 penalties set in 1988.



See below.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> -- The Cowboys have 28 penalties for 281 yards in the past two (pre-NO) games.



Both games they won when they were the darlings of the NFC.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> -- Their 15 penalties against Seattle was the third-highest total in team history and two shy of the franchise record set in 1988 against Cleveland.
> 
> -- The 152 penalty yards against Minnesota on Thanksgiving Day was the third-highest total in team history, nine yards shy of the team record set in 1970 against Washington.
> 
> -- The penalty yardage is on pace (1,199) to be the highest total in franchise history. The record of 1,148 was set in 1988.
> 
> -- From 1989-1996, the Cowboys had 100 yards of penalties twice. They've done it three times this season.



I'm well aware that penalties are a factor and they need to cut down but as I illustrated above, the penalties aren't losing them games at this point.  And that's not to say that they won't lose them some games.  We can talk stats about penalties and include New England the Chicago in the mix as big offenders as well.

Bigger factor - Start Romo in earlier in the year and the 'Boys may have 2 more wins.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> --Julius Jones has the 13th highest rushing yards total in the league- not bad for a rookie, and nearly 2x Barber's total.  He's on a pace to get over 1200 yards this year.



Jones isn't a rookie (3rd year player, second year starter) and he has some skills as well as big-play ability.  However, 13th in the league at anything isn't bad but I wouldn't put that firmly in the plus column.  I'd put it right in the middle.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> --Witten is 5th in the league in receptions, 7th in total yards, 9th in Yards/catch, and tied for 8th in 1st downs for TEs...and the ones ahead of him in those various categories vary a bit.



I agree that Witten is good and should be used more.  Stats not needed here.  Witten is getting many more touches now that Romo doesn't need him to stay back and pass protect all the time like they had to do with Bledsoe.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> --Romo isn't a rookie, he's a 4th year vet who knows the system but hasn't started until this year.



He is a first-year starter, which isn't the same thing but it certainly does put him clearly in the area of "still makes rookie mistakes."



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> --TO, like I said, is as dangerous as any other reciever _if he's playing his best_- when he's off, he's horrible.  Like the former QB for my Saints, Aaron Brooks, he can break a game...either way.



Wait, did you just compare Owens to Brooks?  Um, they aren't on the same level.  That aside, TO hasn't proven this season that he's any better than his play indicates.  I look more at consistency and current performance.  TO hasn't been really good or an elite player since the Eagles went to the Super Bowl.  If we want to talk about everyone playing out of their minds then that is a different discussion.

The bottom line is that nothing about the penalty statistics have shown that they lose games for the Cowboys.  And that said, if they are that sloppy how can they be a legit threat?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

J. Jones is not a rookie...my bad  

Yes- I did compare Owens & Brooks.  While Owens is clearly more historically dominant at his position than Brooks, they share the same streakiness and dangerousness.

When you look at Brooks' career stats as compared to a much more consistent and elite QB- say Peyton Manning- you'll see numbers that are actually pretty impressive considering how few winning seasons he's had.  He actually holds or held a few (good) Saints records, like career TD leader...but he's completely feast or famine.  All of his good stuff comes in big, dominating, record-setting performances.  When he loses, he loses in spectacular fashion- he once threw a backwards lateral to one of his own offensive linemen...

Like I said, when he's on, he's dangerous.  When he was off- he was stupendously so.


----------



## Crothian

I'm just hoping I can watch the Cincy Indy game Monday night.


----------



## Dungannon

Okay, I am no longer rooting for the 'Hawks to make a deep run in the playoffs.  I am now rooting for them to lose out and miss the playoffs accordingly.  That way Holmgren will retire and we can _finally_ replace that horrid defensive coaching staff with one that's somewhat competent.


----------



## Crothian

Well, if SD has something to play for in week 16, the Seahawks should lose that one.  And then week 17 flying all the way to Tamba Bay could be a problem for them.  And of course the 49ers would need to win their last two games.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian: Why couldn't you watch the Cin-Ind game?

I think it's going to be a 50-49 style game.  Should be a blast!


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Crothian: Why couldn't you watch the Cin-Ind game?
> 
> I think it's going to be a 50-49 style game.  Should be a blast!




I'm having issues with my cable this week.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm having issues with my cable this week.



That's when you go to a friend's house.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm having issues with my cable this week.



Two words:  Sports Bar


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> That's when you go to a friend's house.




I don't know people that watch the games.  And I have zero interest in sports bars.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't know people that watch the games.  And I have zero interest in sports bars.



Know any people you could con into watching the game?

"I'll bring over pizza and you let me watch football." LOL


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> Know any people you could con into watching the game?
> 
> "I'll bring over pizza and you let me watch football." LOL




Ya, but they'd want to goto bed before the game is over.


----------



## Aeson

Crothian said:
			
		

> Ya, but they'd want to goto bed before the game is over.



Take the TV in to the bedroom and watch while you get busy.


I know that's not what you meant.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm having issues with my cable this week.




You're welcome to come over to my place and watch it if you like.

(It's only about 800 miles or so.  Take the jet.)


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't know people that watch the games.  And I have zero interest in sports bars.



 Hmmm, sometimes desire must override interest.

I'm not a huge fan of sports bars either but if I want to watch multiple games at once, or my GF and I need to watch our separate games that is where we go.  You could also go to a place like TGIFridays or an Outback and just chill at the bar there.  They will certainly have the game on and you'd get some decent eats, too.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Ya, but they'd want to goto bed before the game is over.



LOL Well, if you want to drive to Dayton, you can watch it here  DShai and I definitely will be. (Despite being Steelers and Chargers fans respectively.)


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> LOL Well, if you want to drive to Dayton, you can watch it here  DShai and I definitely will be. (Despite being Steelers and Chargers fans respectively.)




I figure if I drive anywhere, it'll be over to my parents and just watch it while they sleep.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> I figure if I drive anywhere, it'll be over to my parents and just watch it while they sleep.



See, you do have someplace to watch it


----------



## Seonaid

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't know people that watch the games.  And I have zero interest in sports bars.



 Nothing better than sports bars! Except, of course, being at the game. It's a much better experience, IMO, to be surrounded by like-minded people when watching the best game ever. It's even better when you're out-of-state and find a bar full of people who are fans of your team . . . The only bad thing about bars, that I can see, is the smoking. But, here in the balmy state of Connecticut, they've banned that.

Eh, I don't get it. I'd much rather watch the game with other people than by myself . . .


----------



## Crothian

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Eh, I don't get it. I'd much rather watch the game with other people than by myself . . .




Well, I can't be around smoke.  But usually when I'm watching a game I'm also reading or writing.  I rarely just sit down and watch games.


----------



## Seonaid

I find that the third quarter usually bores me to tears, even when the Eagles are playing. However, if I'm at the game or at a bar, I'm not bored at all.

I understand about the smoke though. I don't _have_ to avoid it, but if I don't, it makes me fairly sick.


----------



## John Crichton

Since we are talking about football, does anyone else 'round here get the Sunday Ticket from DirecTV?  I just picked it up recently and am loving it.  It's great for popping around the league and checking out fantasy players or just non-regional stuff.

It also helps that most of the games are in HD, which is just unbelievably good looking.  Football is perfect for HD.  The price seemed really high (about $250 for the full season) until I realized that I'd spend at least that much if not more going to a bar every week to see all the games I wanted to see.  Oh yeah, and don't forget the HD.


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Since we are talking about football, does anyone else 'round here get the Sunday Ticket from DirecTV?  I just picked it up recently and am loving it.  It's great for popping around the league and checking out fantasy players or just non-regional stuff.
> 
> It also helps that most of the games are in HD, which is just unbelievably good looking.  Football is perfect for HD.  The price seemed really high (about $250 for the full season) until I realized that I'd spend at least that much if not more going to a bar every week to see all the games I wanted to see.  Oh yeah, and don't forget the HD.




    <---  Me, envious.


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> <---  Me, envious.




Indeed.  I'd love to get DirecTV for that very reason, but my wife refuses to have a dish on the roof.  Being stuck here in Chicago, I'm lucky if I get to see 5 or 6 Packer games a year (especially now that the Pack isn't very good, and doesn't get the national games as often).


----------



## Crothian

I don't have an HD TV so it really doesn't seem worth it to spend that money.  Now, if only a friend would get it....


----------



## Crothian

That was a fun game to watch!!  Cowboys bounce back nicely.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I had to miss that game- my entire family's Christmas shopping is now complete with the exception of doing some shopping for a friend who just had back surgery...we'll cover that on Monday.

The good news for me about the 'Boys win- The Saints will clinch their division with either a victory or a Carolina loss.
*
Geaux Saints!*


----------



## Aurora

There should have been a pass interference call on that last Falcons play. Defense totally interfered with the recievers route. That is crap.


----------



## John Crichton

Vicksplosion.

Until Dallas put the pressure on.  

I didn't really think Atlanta had a chance, but then they played so well for 3 quarters.  In all, it was a very entertaining game and the Falcons counterpunched after falling behind by two TDs which was a huge surprise.  Even took the lead and then didn't score again.  Bummer.

Time to gear up for Saints vs Skins & G-men vs Philly.


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> There should have been a pass interference call on that last Falcons play. Defense totally interfered with the recievers route. That is crap.




The refs never call those though.


----------



## Aurora

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Since we are talking about football, does anyone else 'round here get the Sunday Ticket from DirecTV?  I just picked it up recently and am loving it.  It's great for popping around the league and checking out fantasy players or just non-regional stuff.



I just went ahead and bought next years Sunday ticket, so as a bonus I get the rest of this years games free! So, we are watching the Steelers


----------



## John Crichton

Sweet deal.  

Just make sure they aren't gonna charge you again at the start of next season.  It's an auto-renew unless you tell them thing, but you prolly knew that.


----------



## John Crichton

And just when we thought the Saints were the team to beat, they are taken out by the 'Skins.  They are still one of the Top 3 with the Cowboys and Bears.  Either way, they are basically playing for the right to lose to an AFC team in the Super Bowl.

Gah.


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> I just went ahead and bought next years Sunday ticket, so as a bonus I get the rest of this years games free! So, we are watching the Steelers




I was looking forward to watching the Steelers next week, but my Sister has to plan some stupid Christmas eve get together.


----------



## Crothian

John Crichton said:
			
		

> And just when we thought the Saints were the team to beat, they are taken out by the 'Skins.  They are still one of the Top 3 with the Cowboys and Bears.  Either way, they are basically playing for the right to lose to an AFC team in the Super Bowl.
> 
> Gah.




Bears might pull off this OT win, but they just are not looking so great to let TB come back on them like this.


----------



## John Crichton

Yeah, even though they won, they didn't play all that well, especially at home.

Welcome to NFC football.  Back to Giants/Philly...


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> I was looking forward to watching the Steelers next week, but my Sister has to plan some stupid Christmas eve get together.



Can you watch football at it?  In my family, if there is a fottball game on, the tv is on. No question about it man.


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> Can you watch football at it?  In my family, if there is a fottball game on, the tv is on. No question about it man.




I'm thinking about just not getting her kid a present and skipping the event!!


----------



## Gunslinger

You're lucky, I don't even have the option to get DirectTV or the Sunday Ticket or NFL network.  Yay for monopolies...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

A muted "Geaux Saints" for them losing but still clinching their division...  

Again, LT makes a defense look silly and history while doing it.

And big ups for Jeff Garcia for turning the Philadelphia Eagles into the Philadelphia Pheonixes!


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm thinking about just not getting her kid a present and skipping the event!!



Sounds fair to me. She shouldn't have scheduled it during football. If I _had_ to schedule a party during an important game I would say "And I know the game is on, so not only can you watch it, but I'll supply beer and chips"


----------



## Aurora

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Again, LT makes a defense look silly and history while doing it.



Hells yeah!

Can I just say sing:

SAN DIEGO SUPER CHARGERS SAN DIEGO CHARGERS CHARGE!

We're going all the way baby!


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> And big ups for Jeff Garcia for turning the Philadelphia Eagles into the Philadelphia Pheonixes!



Yup, Garcia killed the G-men again.  While giving him his due, I'll go ahead and blame the Giants for playing terribly.  3 trips to the "Green Zone" and 3 FGs.  Ugh.  Defense/Special Teams lets Philly go right down the field after taking a 4th quarter lead.  Double Ugh.  I'd just like to see NY put together one complete and crisp game.

Saints at home next week.  Big game.  I have zero faith in the Giants to win.  That said, the NFC the playoffs will be a crap shoot.  Once all the teams are in, I think any of them could make the Super Bowl.  There doesn't seem to any much of a home field advantage for any of the contenders either.  The teams who get the bye will have an obvious advantage of not having to play the extra game but that's about it.


----------



## Crothian

Colts are doing enough to make thier fans think this is the year!!


----------



## Crothian

And that's the game.  Bengals ki8cked to many freaking field goals and should have gone of it on 4th down.  So, even with over 10 minutes left in the game it is all over.


----------



## drothgery

Crothian said:
			
		

> Colts are doing enough to make thier fans think this is the year!!




The Colts are, without question, better than the Pats this year... and it won't matter because they're not good enough to beat the Bolts in San Diego.


----------



## Vigwyn the Unruly

drothgery said:
			
		

> The Colts are [...] not good enough to beat the Bolts in San Diego.



They have the same record. And who says they'll play in San Diego?

Edit: Scratch that, I'm tired. The Chargers actually have a better record... but none of the Colts players have been suspended for steroid use.


----------



## Gunslinger

Way too conservative play calling by Marvin Lewis tonight.  You can't keep kicking field goals and punting when you're down 2 TDs to the Colts, who are having no trouble scoring on you.


----------



## Crothian

I think the Ravens have a chance to beat the Bolts.  I'd give them the best chance in the AFC and it is only about a third.  

Unless a miracle happens and the Steelers get in as a sixth seed again this year.  IF that happens they will of course win it all


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> The Colts are, without question, better than the Pats this year... and it won't matter because they're not good enough to beat the Bolts in San Diego.



 As it stands right now, I'd have to agree.  The Chargers are looking like the team to beat.  But then again, so did the Colts last year and the Rams a few years back when they lost to the Pats.  And considering how up and down the league has been this year, nothing would surprise me come playoff time.  Okay, a NFC team beating an AFC team would I guess.  

It will be interesting to see if Martyball happens again.  When a team's only weakness seems to be the coach's history that's not a terrible sign.  Then again, if someone can scheme to slow down Tomlinson and make Rivers beat them there is a chance right there.  First year starting QBs can be awfully shaky come playoff time.  Add that in to a historically conservative coach and that could be the recipe.  However, that still make them the the team to beat when I'm trying to come up with scenarios under which a team "could" be beat.

And that said, they are one injury away from coming back to the pack.  I don't think any of their remaining games will really test them (at Arizona & Seattle at home) or show the rest of the league any weaknesses that are already on tape.  They could lose the Seattle game but they should crush Arizona, leaving them with home field.  I don't know if home field is a big advantage to them like say it would be to the Chiefs (if they were equally as good) but it's better than playing on the road.

Dang, I'm looking forward to the playoffs already.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

My playoff wish list is basically for the Saints to at least double their franchise record for playoff victories...currently at 1.


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> My playoff wish list is basically for the Saints to at least double their franchise record for playoff victories...currently at 1.



 Forget that, they are most likely getting the 2 seed.  Aim high and hope for the Super Bowl.    One home game then possibly a road game with the Bears (or another home game with Team X).  That stadium will go nuts in the playoffs.  That will be a huge home field advantage.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

When they got the bye, they got chewed up.

When they won, they went so crazy they used up all their energy.  They collapsed in their next game like a tourist on Burbon Street who just finished his 5th Hurricane...

Do I think they have the personnel to get to the NFC championship?  Yes.

But they have to dictate the course of the game- if they get outcoached for any significant length of time, they'll collapse- while they have talent, they haven't _yet_ learned how to win the big *close* game.


----------



## Alaric_Prympax

The loudest I've ever heard the Dome was in the '87 post season when the Saints scored first in the first ever playoff against the Vikings, yes I was there.   

Unfortunately I was not there when they won their first playoff in the '00 post season against the Rams.    But I'm sure the Dome was louder then.

I'm looking forward to the playoffs this year but we still have 2 regular season games to go.  I'd love to be 11-5.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> As much as I dislike the Cowboys, I'd still have to consider them a legitimate threat to win.
> 
> The way they lose is by getting penalties- dumb ones in bunches.  If they don't self-destruct, they have all the weapons they need to play anyone in the league.
> 
> They have a new QB who seems to understand how the game is played, and Bledsoe as backup is still dangerous.  If he goes in, the Coaches need to remember he's not young & mobile, and start running a West-Coast style offense...short passes & good running.
> 
> They have TO, an older reciever who, if he's on, is probably still one of the top 3 most dangerous in the league.  Their younger recievers are also flashing some quality.
> 
> Their TE is probably one of the top 5, and while young, the RB Jones is starting to look like a good all-around back.
> 
> Oh yeah...*GO SAINTS!*




I think TO is a total ass. An IMMATURE ass. He may be a good player but I could care less about him and his career. 

Bledsoe shouldn't be allowed to start and should be traded off. They've got a good QB in Romo and should stick with him as he's the best they've had in a long time.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Indeed.  I'd love to get DirecTV for that very reason, but my wife refuses to have a dish on the roof.  Being stuck here in Chicago, I'm lucky if I get to see 5 or 6 Packer games a year (especially now that the Pack isn't very good, and doesn't get the national games as often).




And even less so when Brett finally retires.

And the Panthers will be less nationally televised next year. They'll be lucky to have a Sunday night game. Monday will be totally out of the question.


----------



## John Crichton

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> And even less so when Brett finally retires.
> 
> And the Panthers will be less nationally televised next year. They'll be lucky to have a Sunday night game. Monday will be totally out of the question.



 Actually, they are more likely to play on Monday night as that is the old Sunday night package, meaning a "lesser" game.  NBC's Flex Scheduling was supposed to give them a marquee game every week and their games have been pretty good overall while the Monday games you'll still get a stinker here and there.


----------



## kenobi65

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> And even less so when Brett finally retires.




So, this evening, I came home, and found a strange-looking package on my porch.  It looked kind of like a FedEx box, but the stickers didn't look quite right.

When I opened it up, there was a newspaper, and a note.  The note was written in my own hand:

"We've perfected time travel.  Thought you would like to read this."

The newspaper was the Green Bay Press-Gazette, dated January 12th, 2010.  The headline on the sports page was: "Will Brett Retire?"


----------



## Crothian

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> The newspaper was the Green Bay Press-Gazette, dated January 12th, 2010.  The headline on the sports page was: "Will Brett Retire?"




Flip to the lottery numbers!!!


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> So, this evening, I came home, and found a strange-looking package on my porch.  It looked kind of like a FedEx box, but the stickers didn't look quite right.
> 
> When I opened it up, there was a newspaper, and a note.  The note was written in my own hand:
> 
> "We've perfected time travel.  Thought you would like to read this."
> 
> The newspaper was the Green Bay Press-Gazette, dated January 12th, 2010.  The headline on the sports page was: "Will Brett Retire?"



 Heheh, good one.

I love me some Favre, but enough is enough.  I'm sick of hearing about if it's the end for him or not.  Same with Roger Clemens in baseball.


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Flip to the lottery numbers!!!




I did, but they won't help me for another 3+ years.


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I'm sick of hearing about if it's the end for him or not.  Same with Roger Clemens in baseball.




Oh, I forgot...that was on p. 3.

"Clemens may return to Yanks."


----------



## kenobi65

This just in: Favre is undecided.
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/football/nfl/12/19/bc.fbn.packers.favre.sf.ap/index.html

The state of Wisconsin's response: So what else is new?


----------



## Crothian

Are we ready to bitch about the pro bowl selections?


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Are we ready to bitch about the pro bowl selections?




Stunned that the Pack got two guys in, given their sorry state, but both Kampman and Driver are having very good years in spite of it.  (And, Favre's an alternate???  Packer Nation stuffed the online ballot box on that one, for sure.)

My fellow Badger Lee Evans got the shaft!


----------



## Crothian

I'm suprised the Steelers did as well as they did.


----------



## Infiniti2000

Crothian said:
			
		

> Are we ready to bitch about the pro bowl selections?



 As a Pats fan I won't bitch about it (only one selection, Seymour).  Remember that New England is still the only Team.  All the others are a bunch of I's.


----------



## kenobi65

Infiniti2000 said:
			
		

> As a Pats fan I won't bitch about it (only one selection, Seymour).  Remember that New England is still the only Team.  All the others are a bunch of I's.




Was reading an article on SI.com, suggesting that Vrabel should have gotten in.

Had Moroney not been splitting time with Dillon (and then gotten hurt), he might have had a better chance.  First half of the season, he was the flavor of the day.

Watson also deserves some recognition, but playing in the same conference as Tony Gonzalez and Antonio Gates, he's always going to have a struggle there.


----------



## DaveMage

Jags' DT John Henderson should have made it.


----------



## John Crichton

I just can't get excited about the Pro Bowl or who did/didn't get selected for it.

Oh well.


----------



## drothgery

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> (And, Favre's an alternate???  Packer Nation stuffed the online ballot box on that one, for sure.)




Look at the other healthy NFC quarterbacks (and Favre's actual numbers) before you say that. He's pretty much been an average quarterback in a year where almost all the healthy above-average quarterbacks save Brees play in the AFC.


----------



## Seonaid

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I just can't get excited about the Pro Bowl or who did/didn't get selected for it.



 I never can either. I mean, it's a nice honor for the players who get in (and, I suppose, those who get nominated), but it's a meaningless game and a chance for good players to get hurt. Whoopie.


----------



## kenobi65

drothgery said:
			
		

> Look at the other healthy NFC quarterbacks (and Favre's actual numbers) before you say that. He's pretty much been an average quarterback in a year where almost all the healthy above-average quarterbacks save Brees play in the AFC.




Currently, Favre ranks 13th in NFC passer rating...those 15 INTs are killing him.

Who's above him?  In order:
- Romo (Pro Bowl backup)
- Brees (Pro Bowl starter)
- McNabb (injured)
- Bulger (Pro Bowl backup)
- Brunell (benched)
- Delhomme (injured)
- E. Manning
- Hasselbeck (just returned from injury)
- Vick
- Grossman
- Smith
- Kitna

Yeah, it's a weak field, but the voters got the other selections right, pretty much, and Favre is just so far down the list, even if you discount the guys who are injured or not starting anymore.  (Though, granted, there is very little difference in the ratings between Delhomme and Favre.)


----------



## jonathan swift

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm suprised the Steelers did as well as they did.





Well the Steelers are actually playing great. Except turnovers they have been doing amazing all year. Secondly, the Pro Bowl is really just a popularity contest. And the Steelers are a very popular team.


----------



## kenobi65

Well, that was one fugly game.  At least the Pack got a "W" out of it.  Pack did their darndest to not win it, but in the end, they couldn't score few enough points.


----------



## Gunslinger

Last night's game was the first time I'd had a chance to watch a game on the NFL network, and I must say that Greg Gumbel sounds scarily like Kermit the frog.


----------



## kenobi65

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> I must say that Greg Gumbel sounds scarily like Kermit the frog.




Actually, that's not Greg; he's still on CBS.

That's *Bryant* Gumbel; Greg's younger brother, and former "Today Show" host, going back to his sports-broadcasting roots.


----------



## DaveMage

I like Collinsworth, but Gumbel is not impressing me.  I hope they go with a different play-by-play person next year.


----------



## Crothian

Raiders once agian show they are the bottom of the NFL.  How ever did the Steelers lose to them?  THat's going to keep Pittsburgh out of the playoffs.  Sigh.....


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Its a tad premature, but...

GEAUX SAINTS!


----------



## jonathan swift

How about them Texans? Colts can't stop the run and it's killing them time and again. How about all these other exciting games going on. Patriots/Jags, Skins/Rams, Bears/Lions, Titans/Bills. Very good football day.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And the Titans beat the Bills!


----------



## jonathan swift

Man. All the Bills needed was a field goal. Bad passes in the end zone are the last thing you want to do.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

And, appropos of your last post, the Broncos/Bengals game has featured 2 INTs in the first 80 seconds of the game...one in the Bronco's End Zone.

Sloppy, sloppy, sloppy...


----------



## jonathan swift

That Chad Johnson drop was sloppy too. What's weird is the playoffs are still pretty wide open. Crazy.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Bengals/Broncos getting sloppier!  Are we sure these guys are actually trying to get into the playoffs?


----------



## Dungannon

And once again the Seahawks manage to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. :gnash:


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Bengals/Broncos getting sloppier!  Are we sure these guys are actually trying to get into the playoffs?



 The Giants/Saints game was very sloppy as well.  At least 16 dropped passes, some of them were wide open.  Saints are fortunate to have their stuff together and easily overcame it.  That 18 play TD drive was a killer.  Defense was on the field way too long.  Giants didn't run a single play in Saints territory!  Their TD was a 55 yarder...

As for the Giants, I have no faith left in them.  *sigh*

But, I will be watching the Philly/Cowboys game with great interest as there is a slim chance the NFC will get 3 teams in the playoffs and if the cards fall just right I could end up seeing Giants @ Eagles for free (slim chance, but still a chance).  And aside from that it should be a good game as will Jets/Miami.  Two teams that hate each other.


----------



## Crothian

Phili looking good!!!


----------



## megamania

For my second Football season in a row I have no TV.   Who is going well this year and going to win? 



gawd I miss watching an occational game of Football or Ice Hockey......


----------



## Crothian

You can always visit ESPN or other sports sites to get close to up to the minute reports of the gamers.  

Chargers look like they are going to roll over everyone.  Saints are having a near magical season with the NFC having no real dominant team.


----------



## DaveMage

I think it would be hilarious if an NFC 7-9 team makes the playoffs....


----------



## megamania

Crothian said:
			
		

> You can always visit ESPN or other sports sites to get close to up to the minute reports of the gamers.
> 
> Chargers look like they are going to roll over everyone.  Saints are having a near magical season with the NFC having no real dominant team.




Not the same as watching it live with beer/soda and chips.  Pizza when money is there.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

megamania said:
			
		

> Not the same as watching it live with beer/soda and chips.  Pizza when money is there.




Haven't been that lucky.... may make the splurge next year for Panthers tix. Were gonna plan to get some with my now former boss but his divorce got in the way of his being able to afford a ticket.


----------



## Aeson

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I think it would be hilarious if an NFC 7-9 team makes the playoffs....



That might be the Falcons. I'm a fan but I don't want them to go, they didn't earn it.


----------



## Seonaid

Crothian said:
			
		

> Phili looking good!!!



 Who would have thought, a year ago, that Jeff Garcia would get us here? Who would have thought it five weeks ago? The post season is looking up for Philadelphia.


----------



## drothgery

Scary thought: The Packers only need a small amount of help to make the playoffs.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Chargers look like they are going to roll over everyone.



   
Like I said, I think they are going all the way. Then I can hang up my CHargers Superbowl Champions stuff next to DShai's Steelers Superbowl Champions stuff


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Jets/Dolphins was pretty cool, if only for the sheer number of _crushing_ hits.

That one that left Coles on the ground not moving for a minute..._whoah_.


----------



## Jdvn1

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> How about them Texans? Colts can't stop the run and it's killing them time and again.



Wooo! Go Texans! I did _not_ see that one coming!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

What is that smell?

Colts & Giants on an open fire...
Mannings stinkin' up the joint...


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> What is that smell?
> 
> Colts & Giants on an open fire...



Yeah, looks like.  Colts are probably one-and-done, maybe they'll win one playoff home game - but no more.  Giants, if they somehow get out of their own way and win Saturday, are certainly one-and-done.  It just may get delayed by one week.



			
				Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> Mannings stinkin' up the joint...



No, just one Manning stinkin' up the joint, that would be Eli.  

Can't blame Peyton for how the Colts are doing.  That falls right on their hideous defense's inability to stop anyone (Ron Dayne?!) from running on them.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The Colts?

They don't like, they don't like, they don't liiiiiiike...
Ron Dayne!

_(starts faux-Clapton riff)_


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> Scary thought: The Packers only need a small amount of help to make the playoffs.



I would say that they need a bit more than small help, although there are many scenarios under which they can get in -

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2674321

The easiest would be a win and a Giants loss.  So they will know what is at stake when they play Sunday.  However, if the Giants win and they win - a host of things would have to happen in order to get in which we can see at the above link.  Crazy stuff.  Again, they will know if they have a chance by the time they play Sunday night.

This is my nightmare scenario (as a crushed Giants fan) - Giants, Carolina, St. Louis & Atlanta all lose and Farve finds out that he can get into the playoffs just by beating the Bears on the road.  Thus making me a Bears fan for about 3.5 hours.    



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> I think it would be hilarious if an NFC 7-9 team makes the playoffs....



Yeah, but 8-8 is still really sad.  And if there is going to be a 7-9 team, meaning all 5 (NY, St. Louis, Atlanta, Green Bay & Carolina) lose, it will be the Giants who get the wild card.  Yay, I guess.

Out of the 5 teams, the Giants control the most of their own destiny.  If they win, a host of things would have to happen for the Pack to get in with a win: Arizona, Detroit, Miami, Minnesota and San Francisco all win and Carolina, Houston and Tampa Bay all lose.  I don't know about the rest of you but I will be glued to my TV Saturday night and all day Sunday.  And to think that we didn't even mention all the home-field, 1st round bye, Jets/Bengals/Broncos/Chiefs wild-card scenarios yet.


----------



## John Crichton

Before we hit the weekend, I wanted to see how many others around here read "The Sports Guy" Bill Simmons on ESPN.com.

For the uninitiated:  He does 2-3 columns every week but his best are typically his Friday NFL picks columns.  He's more of an everyman than an actual journalist and I find him hilarious, even though he hates just about all my favorite teams in all sports.  Some of the picks columns come with commentary on other topics but the occasional all-team rankings columns are great.

Great stuff if you like the NFL, fantasy sports, movies, pop culture, gambling (oop) or just sports in general.  Any other Simmons fan out there?


----------



## John Crichton

And it begins.  40 minutes until we get to see if we have 1000 different NFC wildcard scenarios on Sunday or really just one...

*sigh*

Go G-men!!


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Go G-men!!




Go Skins!

- kenobi65, the Packer stock-holder and season-ticket holder.


----------



## Crothian

the 1000 different seneerios will make sundays games more interesting, though I doiubt Giants will lose this.  Although they really are doing a nice job of just dying in the second half of the season.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I just have to say...

"Hail to the Redskins.!"

(Just kidding!  As a Saints fan, I don't have a horse in that race.)


----------



## John Crichton

As a Giants fan, I continue to have zero confidence in the Giants.  

The score is currently 7-3 and NY just got a lucky timeout to prevent a delay of game.

They need to feed Tiki to win this one...


----------



## Crothian

I don't know how but the giants answered well


----------



## kenobi65

Well, it looked like the Redskins might have pulled it out, but Campbell just kept firing blanks at the end.

So, the Giants get that last benighted wild card berth, unless the Packers win tomorrow night *and* a bunch of other games fall a certain way.

I really needed Tiki to retire at halftime.


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Well, it looked like the Redskins might have pulled it out, but Campbell just kept firing blanks at the end.



That last batted down pass was really what did it.  That looked like a 1st down completion until Wilson got a hand on it.  *yikes*



			
				kenobi65 said:
			
		

> So, the Giants get that last benighted wild card berth, unless the Packers win tomorrow night *and* a bunch of other games fall a certain way.



Well, the Pack will know before they play if there is a playoff spot up for grabs.

Cuz I know how to cut-n-paste here is the way the Packers get into the playoffs:

Green Bay wins @ Chicago
Arizona wins @ San Diego
Detroit wins @ Dallas
Miami wins @ Indianapolis
Minnesota wins @ home vs St. Louis
San Francisco wins @ Denver

Carolina loses @ New Orleans
Houston loses to Cleveland @ home
Tampa Bay loses to Seattle @ home 

I am a relieved but still not confident Giants fan.  But they have beaten both Dallas & Philly on the road so there is hope for they yet.  



			
				kenobi65 said:
			
		

> I really needed Tiki to retire at halftime.



That was a crazy performance for Tiki.  I just hope he has something in the tank left for the Eagles or Cowboys, assuming the G-men are in.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't know how but the giants answered well



 Ya' know what they say about every blind squirrel...


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> That last batted down pass was really what did it.  That looked like a 1st down completion until Wilson got a hand on it.  *yikes*




Agreed...nice play by Wilson.  Couldn't believe they went away from Randle El and Moss on that series.



			
				John Crichton said:
			
		

> Cuz I know how to cut-n-paste here is the way the Packers get into the playoffs:
> 
> Green Bay wins @ Chicago
> Arizona wins @ San Diego
> Detroit wins @ Dallas
> Miami wins @ Indianapolis
> Minnesota wins @ home vs St/ Louis
> San Francisco wins @ Denver
> 
> Carolina loses @ New Orleans
> Houston loses to Cleveland @ home
> Tampa Bay loses to Seattle @ home




Yeah, I'd read that on SI.com.  A lot of those are feasible...but Arizona beating San Diego?  Detroit beating Dallas?  On the road?  To quote Jack Sparrow: "Not impossible.  Improbable."  But, highly highly so.

Even so, either the G-men or the Pack are likely to be one-and-done in the playoffs anyway.


----------



## DaveMage

I'm so bummed - I wanted a 7-9 team to get in the playoffs....


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I'm so bummed - I wanted a 7-9 team to get in the playoffs....



 Glad to hear that you were pulling for the Giants.


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Even so, either the G-men or the Pack are likely to be one-and-done in the playoffs anyway.



This is most likely true.  However, I would give the Giants some chance (read: Tiki goes nuts again) as they have beaten both potential teams in their stadiums already.  The Packers have next to no chance against either.  Farve has no weapons, which is sad because I think he has some gas in the tank.  That said, I don't see him winning in Chicago, unless he decides before the game to hang it up at the end of the year (Tiki syndrome!).

Hmm, or if the 8 games go their way and they have a chance to get in.  I have to admit that I would be shocked (not to mention very mad) if it happened.  But not *that* shocked, if you know what I mean.  To re-state the obvious: this has been a wacky NFL season...


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Farve has no weapons, which is sad because I think he has some gas in the tank.




That much is definitely true.  Ahman Green still has some life left in him, but he's not the runner he was a few years ago.  And, other than Donald Driver (whom everyone double-teams now), the receiving corps is more like a receiving corpse.   Bubba Franks clearly has lost something, Greg Jennings isn't as good as he was earlier in the season, Ferguson's hurt again, Walker's in Denver....



			
				John Crichton said:
			
		

> That said, I don't see him winning in Chicago, unless he decides before the game to hang it up at the end of the year (Tiki syndrome!).




I think the odds of it depend mostly on how long the Bears play their starters.  They started taking people out in the 4th quarter against Detroit last week.  And, the Bear defense is very exploitable these days, so anything's possible.  Probable?  Now there's a different story.


----------



## Crothian

Well, Steelers are going to dash the Bengals hopes even if what else needed to happen doesn't.  Cleveland should be winning 20-0 if they could just complete a drive.


----------



## Crothian

Steelers at least don't follow the Super Bowl win with a losing season.  Now if only Cowher doesn't leave us.


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Steelers at least don't follow the Super Bowl win with a losing season.  Now if only Cowher doesn't leave us.



God I hope he doesn't.

Rivers had better freaking be okay.


----------



## Crothian

Aurora said:
			
		

> Rivers had better freaking be okay.




What happened to Rivers?


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> What happened to Rivers?



His ankle got hurt in the beginning of the game. They taped it up though, and he went back in the game after 1 play. He has been limping a lot though.


----------



## Crothian

Luckily he gets a week off


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> Luckily he gets a week off



Him and LT. Looks like he hurt his ankle as well.


----------



## Aeson

Anyone watching the Falcons & Eagles game?


----------



## Jdvn1

Go Texans.


----------



## Seonaid

Aeson said:
			
		

> Anyone watching the Falcons & Eagles game?



 Naw. I'm an Eagles fan, but after the Cowboys loss and all the first-stringers being taken out, I can't find the will to care. Next week, however . . . next week is a whole 'nother ball of wax. I'll be at that game, hoping my Giants-fan boyfriend doesn't get killed by my fellow Philadelphians . . .  E-A-G-L-E-S Eagles!


----------



## Aurora

Aeson said:
			
		

> Anyone watching the Falcons & Eagles game?



Nope. Watching the 49ers/Broncos game in OT.


----------



## Aeson

I know they lost.


----------



## John Crichton

Wow - Chiefs are in, Broncos out.  Again, because I can cut-n-paste:
*
AFC wild-card matchups*

Kansas City Chiefs at Indianapolis Colts, Saturday, 4:30 ET (NBC)
N.Y. Jets at New England Patriots, Sunday, 1 ET (CBS)

*NFC wild-card matchups*

Dallas Cowboys at Seattle Seahawks, Saturday, 8 ET (NBC)
New York Giants at Philadelphia Eagles, Sunday, 4:30 ET (FOX)


Happy New Year, everyone!  I hope your team got in!  I'm off to get festive.  Talk to y'all in '07.


----------



## drothgery

Since the Giants refused to humor me by losing to the Redskins, the Pack didn't get in. But they did smack around the Bears, which is always fun.

Wild Card round Picks:

AFC 
*Colts* over Chiefs; whoever has the ball last wins, as no one can stop the Colts offense, and the Colts defense can't stop a decent running game, let alone LJ

*Patriots* over Jets; Jets are a year early, and mostly snuck in off of a soft schedule. Pats aren't what they were two years ago, but are still pretty good, and the best team playing next weekend.

NFC
*Seahawks* over Cowboys; neither team finished very strongly, but Seahawks are at home and have more upside.

*Eagles* over Giants; Eagles are hottest team in the NFC, G-men backed into the playoffs at 8-8.


----------



## Crothian

Ya, home teams all around in the wild card round.  I wonder how often that actually happens?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

With all due respect to Mr. Peyton Manning...I'm picking the Chiefs.  Peyton hasn't won a big game in the postseason (or at least not more than one) and will have to carry a team that will be shredded by KC's potent running game.

Philly will crush the Giants- the Eagles are playing well and the Giants?  They're playing like they're on life support.  And hallucinating.  With concussions.

Seahawks vs Cowboys is a you-pick-'em.  Both teams have huge potential, and both have played some lousy games this year.  If Shaun Alexander gets on track, the Cowboys will lose.  If either TO or TG gets in synch with Romo, the Seahawks could get lit up.

Patriots & Jets are also a you-pick-'em, but because both teams are playing good (not inconsistent) ball.  I'm pretty sure that Tom Brady has icewater in his veins, so I'm giving them the edge.


----------



## DaveMage

I'm really looking forward to seeing how many yards Larry Johnson gets against the Colts...

My bet: 250....

...maybe by the end of the first half.


----------



## John Crichton

EDIT:  Picks upcoming....

Clicked "Submit" waaaay too early.


----------



## John Crichton

*Wild Card Weekend Picks*

Chiefs @ Colts

I think teams with an actual home field advantage will get one on Wild Card Weekend.  There is one team playing this weekend that actually has one:  The Colts.  We all know their run defense is a sieve and LJ should shred them.  But this is Manning at home where he is 8-0.  KC's Defense isn't exactly the '85 Bears and I smell shootout/track meet.  We may see another Vinatieri game winner as time expires now that Peyton doesn't have to worry about his kicker missing anything under 50 yards.

It appears that the Colts has been coasting and a win-or-else game is exactly what they need to wake up.  KC played their elimination game yesterday, but they only delayed fate for 6 days.  That and this season has been so wacky that since most folks think the Colts are going to be one-and-done (as opposed to last season's premature Super Bowl crowning) that this will be the one where Manning takes them the farthest.  Wouldn't surprise me.


Cowboys @ Seahawks

Grrr, I hate the whole NFC.  There doesn't seem to be a single team that wants to stand up and look like they can beat any of the AFC contenders.  No two teams exemplify this than the two teams in the 8pm Saturday match-up.  Romo and the 'Boys looked very strong after beating the Giants but it's been downhill from there.  Can't beat Detroit at home.  Romo looking like the first-year starter that he is.  But if they get a running game going they'll be dangerous as they are good on the play action and have talented receivers.  And with a lead can put pressure on Super Bowl losing QB, Matt Hasselbeck.  Again, ugh.

The Seahawks are simply not the same team as last year.  They have no rhythm and backed into the playoffs worse than the Giants did.  Why?  Their division is cake and they didn't take advantage.  The NFC West had one good team to start the year and a pretender (San Fran).  For a SB team, their schedule and "home field advantage" should gotten them more wins.   5-3 at home isn't gonna cut it.

I have zero feel for this game and hate both teams, so here's the formula I'm going with:  Wacky year + The Tuna + East Coast Bias = Cowboys win.


Jets @ Patriots

Both Sunday games are filled with interesting subplots.  First, we have the shocking Jets @ the Pats.  Take home-field advantage and chuck it out the window here - ok, sorta.  It's still Belichick & Brady.  But with no standout receivers, no Vinatieri and possibly no Rodney Harrison the Pats are ripe for being picked off.  Too bad they don't play in the NFC where they would be a lock for the Super Bowl.

The Jets already beat the Pats at home once and Mangini knows how Belichick thinks.  If I'm the Pats, this team is the one first round opponent I wouldn't want to face.  All that said, the Jets had a very easy schedule and the AFC East had only two good teams.  They took proper advantage of their situation.  As much as I'd like to drink the Mangini cool-aid, I don't think the Pats are going to lose their one home game and it will be close.

Belichick will take away Pennington's short passing game and stunt the run forcing the Jets to throw deep.  Dillion + Moroney + Play Action will be too much for the Jets.  New England in a thriller as the Jets wild ride comes to an end.

Note:  I would love nothing more than for the Pats to lose to the Jets and will be happy to pick their game next week if they win.  


Giants @ Eagles

This one looks like the easiest to pick with the way things have been going.  The Eagles look like a complete team on both sides of the ball, have confidence and a QB playing out of his mind who has playoff experience.  3 consecutive wins on the road against increasingly harder division foes is also not to be dismissed.  Andy Reid is an excellent game planner and Jim Johnson's Defense will be throwing the kitchen sink at Eli Manning.  Westbrook is a huge weapon and is being utilized better than he ever was with McNabb at the helm.

But this is the NFC, where a team looks great for a month and then loses at home to the Redskins/Lions/Packers.  Here are the facts:  The Giants have looked dreadful since beating the Cowboys.  They have sustained massive injuries to starters who are gone (Strahan, Pettigout, Toomer, Arrington) and may not have Shockey or Umenyiora playing at full strength.  The Giants are a better road than home team (5-3).  They have already beaten the Eagles at the Linc and these NFC East division games almost always come down to 1-2 big plays that sway the course of the game.  This will be a dogfight.

The Giants had the hardest schedule of any of the teams currently in the playoffs.  Before the season I put them at 9-7.  Their 6-2 start had all the NY fans in a frenzy and thought the division was locked up.  Things went sour quickly.  The stars wouldn't shut up, Manning looked worse and worse and the defense couldn't stop anyone in the 4th Quarter because they were on the the field too long.

To me, Coughlin is still coaching for his job and needs at least one playoff win especially after last year's dud.  The team has a little confidence back and have remembered to give the ball to their retiring superstar, who was most of the offense when they were winning games.  If the Eagles shut down Tiki there is a great chance they will win.

My _completely biased_ pick:  Tiki motivation + new offensive play caller (more running, less Manning) + Coughlin desperation + wacky NFC + Division Game + Garcia comes back to Earth a bit = Giants win.


----------



## Crothian

And the coaches start to fall: Dennis Green gone from Arizona and Atlanta gets rid of Mora.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> And the coaches start to fall: Dennis Green gone from Arizona and Atlanta gets rid of Mora.




Other changes that might occur are in Pittsburgh (likely) and Oakland (not as likely).


----------



## Crothian

I'm hoping Pittsburgh doesn't get another coach.  I like the one we have!!


----------



## Aurora

Crothian said:
			
		

> I'm hoping Pittsburgh doesn't get another coach.  I like the one we have!!



I like Cowher as well, but the change does seem to be coming. Only time will tell.


----------



## Seonaid

My picks, a la Bill Simmons (home team in CAPS):

Chiefs over COLTS
PATRIOTS over Jets
Cowboys over SEAHAWKS
EAGLES over Giants


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Here's the most shocking sports news from the NFL in some time: Broncos CB Darrent Williams (#27) was killed in a drive-by shooting directed at his limo in downtown Denver early Monday.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl

Happy freakin' New Year.


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> And the coaches start to fall: Dennis Green gone from Arizona and Atlanta gets rid of Mora.




Dennis Green was probably the best hope that that snake-bit franchise had in some time; I'm not sure why he wasn't able to get any traction in Arizona, but he wasn't.

Mora's team underachieved, as well, but even if they'd done a little better this year, those stupid comments he made on the radio program about wanting the University of Washington job probably doomed him.

Agreed that Shell will likely get canned, too, though I'm not sure how much of that's his fault.  That's just one bad team, in the front office as well as on the field.  Davis spends too much of his time / energy on feeling persecuted by everyone else in football, and not enough in trying to keep the team competitive.  

It'll be a shame for Pittsburgh if Cowher steps down, but being an NFL coach is a very demanding job, and he'd been at the top of his profession for a very long time.


----------



## Crothian

Raiders had a great defense, so their is hope there.  They just need to cut half the offense.  Falcons just look like they under achieve a lot.  That makes me think that they might not be as good as people want to make them up to be.


----------



## kenobi65

Crothian said:
			
		

> Raiders had a great defense, so their is hope there.  They just need to cut half the offense.




I'll grant you the defense, particularly in the second half of the season.  I'd forgotten that the defense kept them in some games, and, IIRC, won one for them when the offense didn't do a dang thing.

Just don't cut Huggy Bear's son.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> Raiders had a great defense, so their is hope there.



I wouldn't quite call that defense great.  The '85 Bears & '00 Ravens were great.

I'd say that it was pretty good, especially compared to the offense.  But yeah, they need a QB which is where it all starts.  Brooks is terrible.  Their O-line stinks, too...


----------



## Crothian

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I wouldn't quite call that defense great.  The '85 Bears & '00 Ravens were great.




See, I'd call those defenses Legendary.  The Raiders finished in the top 3 for defenses this year, and for me that's a great defense.


----------



## jonathan swift

My generic prediction for wild card weekend, home team wins.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> See, I'd call those defenses Legendary.



Hmm, perhaps I interchange the terms too liberally, so perhaps I should have capitalized Great.  



			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> The Raiders finished in the top 3 for defenses this year, and for me that's a great defense.



3rd in total yards, which is an overblown stat.  They are middle of the road in points allowed, a more important stat.  And that top 3 isn't outstanding (for yds allowed) unless they were distanced from the rest of the league by a sizable margin, which they weren't.

And they only had 23 takeaways, which was good for 27th in the league.

Argh, you got me talking about the Raiders and it's not even about them botching the #1 pick!


----------



## Crothian

..and Miami needs a coach.


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> 3rd in total yards, which is an overblown stat.  They are middle of the road in points allowed, a more important stat.  And that top 3 isn't outstanding (for yds allowed) unless they were distanced from the rest of the league by a sizable margin, which they weren't.
> 
> And they only had 23 takeaways, which was good for 27th in the league.




They're 9th in Football Outsiders' defensive DVOA, which tries to measure play-by-play performance, relative to who they were playing against (so stopping the Chargers offense is somewhat more meaningful than stopping the Ravens), and tries not to penalize a defense that's getting stuck in bad positions by their offense.

Not great, but certainly pretty good.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> They're 9th in Football Outsiders' defensive DVOA, which tries to measure play-by-play performance, relative to who they were playing against (so stopping the Chargers offense is somewhat more meaningful than stopping the Ravens), and tries not to penalize a defense that's getting stuck in bad positions by their offense.
> 
> Not great, but certainly pretty good.



Agreed.  Pretty good.  That's about the most I'm willing to allow a 2-14 team, ya know?


----------



## Dungannon

Crothian said:
			
		

> ..and Miami needs a coach.



I hear Denny Green is looking for a job. 

More seriously, I don't expect Miami to name a new head coach until after the Super Bowl.


----------



## Steve Jung

Dungannon said:
			
		

> I hear Denny Green is looking for a job.
> 
> More seriously, I don't expect Miami to name a new head coach until after the Super Bowl.



Why? It's not like they're doing anything.


----------



## kenobi65

Steve Jung said:
			
		

> Why? It's not like they're doing anything.




Only reason I could see for that is if they're looking at an assistant coach from one of the playoff teams (Ron Rivera, the Bears' defensive co-ordinator, has been mentioned as a candidate for several jobs).  Although, with the new rules, they can interview playoff assistants before their teams get eliminated, but I'm not sure if they're allowed to hire them before elimination.


----------



## Steve Jung

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> but I'm not sure if they're allowed to hire them before elimination.



Probably not. I think it'd be a conflict of interest for the coach in that case. It's probably safe to say they won't be hiring a college coach this time around.


----------



## John Crichton

Steve Jung said:
			
		

> Probably not. I think it'd be a conflict of interest for the coach in that case. It's probably safe to say they won't be hiring a college coach this time around.



 Yeah, not to mention that Saban will probably never get an NFL head coaching gig again.  Not that I blame him for jumping ship of a sinking team but he had uber-control so the fault really is on his shoulders.


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Yeah, not to mention that Saban will probably never get an NFL head coaching gig again.  Not that I blame him for jumping ship of a sinking team but he had uber-control so the fault really is on his shoulders.




If memory serves, this is *not* the first time that Nick Saban changed jobs shortly after making vociferous statements indicating that he had no interest whatsoever in doing so, and very much planned on staying in his current job.  I honestly don't think you can trust the man as far as you could throw him.

Nonetheless, some eedeeot somewhere will offer him the next job, and the next...


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> If memory serves, this is *not* the first time that Nick Saban changed jobs shortly after making vociferous statements indicating that he had no interest whatsoever in doing so, and very much planned on staying in his current job.  I honestly don't think you can trust the man as far as you could throw him.
> 
> Nonetheless, some eedeeot somewhere will offer him the next job, and the next...



I have no problem with him saying that he wasn't going and changing his mind.  I have more of a problem with him jumping off the ship when he made a bunch of the crummy choices that have left the team in its current state.  To agree with a NY radio personality - I think he looked at the QB situation and then the division and then his aging defense and wanted out when he could be a king at 'Bama.


----------



## Dungannon

And now there's a report on ESPN.com saying that Cowher will announce his retirement on Monday.


----------



## kenobi65

Dungannon said:
			
		

> And now there's a report on ESPN.com saying that Cowher will announce his retirement on Monday.




I don't think that that's coming as a surprise to anyone.

The question then becomes: will he return to coaching at some point?  If so, how quickly?  I'd read a rumor earlier today that Miami was already interested in him.


----------



## Dungannon

Well, he has one more year left on his contract with Pittsburgh so he'd have to sit out the '07 season at least.  After that, who knows?


----------



## DaveMage

Looks like Art Shell is out as head coach in Oakland....

So, for those playing at home, that's now 4 vacancies:

Atlanta
Miami
Oakland
Pittsburgh


----------



## John Crichton

Don't forget Arizona.

If I was a head coach I would love to take either the Arizona or Pittsburgh job.  Probably the Steelers first as they are very loyal to their coaches and job security wouldn't be an issue.  That and they already have a solid defense in place and a QB with plenty of playoff success, not to mention a ring.

Both have some excellent players.  It would be kinda neat to try and make 'Zona into a powerhouse.  They have a good start on offense.  They need to put together an O-line and with those receivers + Edge they should be able to put up some points.


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> If I was a head coach I would love to take either the Arizona or Pittsburgh job.  Probably the Steelers first as they are very loyal to their coaches and job security wouldn't be an issue.




The Steelers are a classy, well-run organization, probably one of the best in football.

The Cardinals, on the other hand...well, they might well be nice folks, but they still haven't figured out how to put a successful team on the field.  Unfortunately, they've been terrible for most of the time they've been in Arizona, and I think it'd take a bigger housecleaning than they've been willing to do (including changes in upper management) to really change that.


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Don't forget Arizona.




Oops.    

Make that 5....


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Make that 5....




With, from what I've read, a possibility of a 6th, in the Giants, especially if they can't beat the Eagles this weekend.


----------



## DaveMage

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> With, from what I've read, a possibility of a 6th, in the Giants, especially if they can't beat the Eagles this weekend.




Indeed.

That will be an interesting one to watch....


----------



## Darth K'Trava

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Looks like Art Shell is out as head coach in Oakland....




Again.

Wasn't he coach there a few years back when the Raiders were the most penalized team? Or am I thinking of another "Shell"?


----------



## kenobi65

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Again.
> 
> Wasn't he coach there a few years back when the Raiders were the most penalized team? Or am I thinking of another "Shell"?




He was, indeed, Raiders coach back in the late 80s/early 90s.

The Raiders are perennially among the most-penalized teams, regardless of coach.  Seems to be a management philosophy (and I think it reflects the kind of players they tend to sign).  It's been that way for as long as I can remember (i.e., the early 70s).


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> With, from what I've read, a possibility of a 6th, in the Giants, especially if they can't beat the Eagles this weekend.



 If you all would allow me another Giants rant...  

There are some that are calling for his head in NY, but Giants head coaches aren't usually handled that way.  He's made the playoffs two straight years and considering the amount of injuries on the team he's in more hot water than he should be.  I blame the players more than the coach at this point.  These same guys (minus Plax) ran their mouths and underachieved under Fassel, too.  They are the same group that blew a huge lead to the 49ers in the playoffs a few years back.  I don't love Coughlin as a coach but I'd like to see him get a few more years under his belt to build the team.  It's only his third year, they have made the playoffs twice and have a young, developing QB.  He was brought in to rebuild the team and I think it's still a work in progress.

He's got a team of aging (one retiring) superstars that just won't shut up.  It's like having 3-4 mini-TOs on the team.  I love Shockey's fire and effort, but he shows up the QB too much and really just needs to shut up.  Same with Plaxico.  When Eli makes an overthrow just go back the the huddle and slap him on the butt, don't throw your hands in the air and stare.  Strahan and Tiki have always been too outspoken for guys who have no rings.  This is a hard team to like even though they are my team.

That said, I reserve my right to change my opinion on Coughlin if they lay an egg on Sunday, like with the Panthers last year.  The Giants need to come out fired up and play a solid game.

The bottom line is that no one knows who the GM will be next year and until that is ironed out, we won't know which way management is leaning as far as the head coach is concerned.  And sure, if the Giants win a few playoff games, they probably won't get rid of Coughlin.


----------



## DaveMage

Eli Manning is what's going to hurt Coughlin the most.

And to think, they gave up Shawne Merriman and Phillip Rivers for him....

Ouch.


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Eli Manning is what's going to hurt Coughlin the most.



I'm not ready to give up on Eli just yet.  He could take 5 years to finally mature into a quality QB.  Passing judgement on any young QB after just 2.5 seasons is silly.  He has regressed this season but it's not Eli's fault that his teammates won't shut up and that the team is undisciplined.  It is his fault that he floats passes and misses open receivers.  I do think he needs to take more of a leadership role on the team, but that is very hard to do with the established loudmouths there.  I think when Tiki and Strahan retire we'll start to see Manning take more ownership of the team.



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> And to think, they gave up Shawne Merriman and Phillip Rivers for him....



The jury is still out on Rivers, just as it is on Manning.  As for Merriman, that pick may not have been made by the G-men, but that trade for the moment doesn't look good for NY.  There was a 3rd pick in there, too that turned out well for SD.  Can't recall the player at the moment.  Another point on Rivers - he is on one of the most complete and healthy teams in the league.  He has LDT to run it and we all know how important a great running back is to a QB.  Elway needed TD to finally win a SB.  Rivers has Gates to throw to as well and a solid defense.  Rivers hasn't had to win many games for the Chargers but he will in the playoffs.  That will be interesting to see, especially if they play the Pats who will likely limit LDT.

Gosh, I love the playoffs.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> I not ready to give up on Eli just yet. He could take 5 years to finally mature into a quality QB.




I agree there- his bro took some time to develop.

Down here in D/FW, Troy Aikman pointed out that Quincy Carter's numbers over his first 10 starts were better than his were.

Farve had to go through a LOT of bad before winning lots of games, much less his Super Bowl.  Heck- he got traded from Atlanta and shared time with Don Majkowski in GB before winning the starter's job.


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I'm not ready to give up on Eli just yet.  He could take 5 years to finally mature into a quality QB.  Passing judgement on any young QB after just 2.5 seasons is silly.  He has regressed this season but it's not Eli's fault that his teammates won't shut up and that the team is undisciplined.  It is his fault that he floats passes and misses open receivers.  I do think he needs to take more of a leadership role on the team, but that is very hard to do with the established loudmouths there.  I think when Tiki and Strahan retire we'll start to see Manning take more ownership of the team.




The thing about Eli that annoys me is his toughness (or lack thereof).  He seems to bail out most of the time whenever the rush is coming rather than deliver the pass and take the hit.  Now granted, I understand not wanting to get smashed by a defensive player when throwing a pass, but he's been paid quite a bit of money to do exactly that....

If he can change that, then I think he can be a decent QB in the NFL.  I don't see him ever being a superstar, though.


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> The thing about Eli that annoys me is his toughness (or lack thereof).  He seems to bail out most of the time whenever the rush is coming rather than deliver the pass and take the hit.  Now granted, I understand not wanting to get smashed by a defensive player when throwing a pass, but he's been paid quite a bit of money to do exactly that....



He does do that sometimes, but lots of QBs do.  And I have seen him take some nasty hits (just like other QBs) after delivering a pass, too.  I have a problem with his accuracy more than anything.  He misses too many open reads, overthrows because he's throwing off his back foot (even without a blitzer in his face) and doesn't make throws easy for his receivers.  That said, his best pass is the 20+, which is really odd.

He's a puzzling player as he has shown moments of brilliance in leading his team from behind in the 4th quarter.  And then he goes out there and throws interceptions that kill games and misses wide open guys.  I think Coughlin opened up the offense a bit too early.  He should have stuck with the running game more, even when down in some of the games and relied more on play action and screens.  Don't put the game in Eli's hands unless you have to.  Give it to Tiki & Jacobs and feed the TEs on short routes.  Use more 3-step drops.

It doesn't help that his defense regularly gives up late leads, just like in the last game against the Eagles.  He drove them down the field for a score late and the defense gave it right back in the blink of an eye.



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> If he can change that, then I think he can be a decent QB in the NFL.  I don't see him ever being a superstar, though.



That I mostly agree with.  He's never going to be his brother and it's not even fair to assume that as Peyton will go down as one of the all time greats.  I do think he will be a very good QB and that he does have a high ceiling.  He should bulk up in the off-season and come back with a "this is my team" attitude and work on his short passing game.

I also think the bar was set artificially high after the first Eagles game when he lead them from behind for a wacky win.  That plus Toomer getting hurt and loss of his starting left tackle (Petitgout) has helped him much.  Take away any QB's starting LT and he's usually going to struggle.


----------



## Crothian

Colts Defense has shown up!!  I expected each tem to be over 20 in the first half!!  Colts instead showcase their kicker!!


----------



## John Crichton

I have to admit that while it was a bit surprising that the Colts stopped LJ cold, I'm not shocked.  Herm Edwards did nothing to try and change things up against the Colts.  It was run on 1st and 2nd down then throw on 3rd.  They did nothing for 7 straight drives.  Terrible game plan.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> Terrible game plan.




I'll agree with that 100%!

You know you can run- you have LJ, the #2 runner in the league this year, and you're pitting him against a run D ranked in the 30's.  They know you can run- they will be stacking that line in an effort to stuff LJ.

Sounds like its time to do play-action & other passes until they vacate the box, leaving room for LJ to crush their souls.

And having your best pass reciever blocking for 65% of the game?


----------



## Crothian

KC heard they could run on the Colts all week and they beleived it.  It reminds me of one of one of those what is the hardest thing in sports answers: getting into the post season and having to go in at halftime and come up with a completely new strategy because the one that got you there doesn't work anymore.


----------



## TarionzCousin

The Colts have shown (again) that they are more than just Peyton Manning. 

In other news, this year Seattle got the big breaks that they thought they deserved in last year's Super Bowl. What an exciting ending!


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

That game was just nutz.


----------



## Dungannon

Wow, just...wow.  I can't believe Seattle managed to win that game!  Of course they suffered some more injuries, but what else is new.  Now I'm gonna root for Philly to beat the Giants tomorrow.


----------



## Vigwyn the Unruly

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> I agree there- his bro took some time to develop.



Not really. Peyton year 1 record: 3-13. Year 2: 13-3, and he's been off to the races ever since.  

In my mind, the big difference is that Peyton came into a team that was total crap before him, so he could easily take it over. Eli, on the other hand, is a bit shy, AND there are a bunch of big shots already there.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

QB development isn't all about W-L.  Some of Peyton's wins are undoubtedly going to be because of someone else's performance- say, Marvin Harrison, Marshall Faulk or Edgerrin James.  Some are going to be because the other team was simply no good.

Consider his career stats: http://www.nfl.com/players/playerpage/12531

From 1998-2002, he had only one season where he threw 2x more TDs than INTs.  Since 2003, he's had only two seasons where he threw fewer than 3x more TDs than INTs- and those seasons he was close (within a TD or 2).

In 2004, his average passer rating exceeded 100 for the first time- having just missed it in 2003- and it hasn't dropped below that mark.


----------



## John Crichton

Okay folks.

I am here (a Giants fan) in Philly for the game.  I'll be wearing my Manning jersey and sitting in the nosebleeds.  Luckily, the section is the non-alcohol section and I'll be with an Eagles fan.  I'm hoping to get out alive.

Wish me luck.  

Go Jets (only cuz I hate the Pats)!  Go G-men!!!


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Okay folks.
> 
> I am here (a Giants fan) in Philly for the game.  I'll be wearing my Manning jersey and sitting in the nosebleeds.  Luckily, the section is the non-alcohol section and I'll be with an Eagles fan.  I'm hoping to get out alive.
> 
> Wish me luck.




You are a bold, bold man!


----------



## jonathan swift

Huge play by the Jets there.


----------



## Crothian

Wow, they used the battleship Lorenzen


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> Wow, they used the battleship Lorenzen




Just for kicks, I want to see him actually attempt a pass one time.


----------



## Crothian

He wasn't that bad at Kentucky.  I imagine he has some talent to keep him on the roster.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> Wow, they used the battleship Lorenzen



 Gotta love the hefty lefty.


----------



## John Crichton

Well, I got out alive.  I counted getting called an a-hole about 874 times.  But I didn't get any batteries thrown at my head or beer spilled on me.  I did have my sexuality called into question as did Manning and Shockey, although I'm pretty sure they were on the field not the men's room I was in.  

All in all, I had a blast with that one pesky exception of my team not taking the game that the Eagles try to give us.  Being a visitor was a ton of fun.  If I was in NY/NJ I would have just been another fan wearing a jersey.  But being in Philly, I was recognized and called out where ever I went as the hated enemy.  Good times.

Analysis to come from my first live NFL game...


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Well, I got out alive.




Ahhh...Eagles fans vs. Giants fans...about as close as the U.S. comes to an Eastern Hemisphere soccer setting. 

Glad you got out alive.  Even Packer fans aren't that rude to Bear or Viking fans.  (Note: I specifically didn't include Cowboy fans in that.  Cowboy fans are automatically stuck head-down in the bratwurst tub.)


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Ahhh...Eagles fans vs. Giants fans...about as close as the U.S. comes to an Eastern Hemisphere soccer setting.



Naw, that would be Red Sox vs. Yankee fans.  I'm happy to be in the middle of that one, too.  

Other good rivalries are Duke/UNC (college basketball) and Ohio State/Michigan (college football).


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Sports Rivalries?

You have to talk about the hate the Detroit Redwings and Colorado Avalanche have for each other.  The only time I've seen every player on the ice fighting- twice including goalies at center ice!- was in their meetings.

Goalie Fights...those are just plain nuts!


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Analysis to come from my first live NFL game...




 

Wow!  For your first NFL game you chose to go into the most hostile of settings????

I think you'll find it's much more fun to be the home team.


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Wow!  For your first NFL game you chose to go into the most hostile of settings????



Well, my GF's father gave us his tickets (he is a season ticket holder) and I'm not going to say no to such a generous offer.  I just hadn't gotten around to seeing a live NFL game in my 29 years.  I'll certainly try and go to a Giants game next year.  My sister manages tix at least once a season so I'll probably end up going that route.  



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> I think you'll find it's much more fun to be the home team.



Yeah, I imagine so.  Every time the Eagles scored there was high-fiving all over the place.  People would turn in my direction for celebration and then awkwardly go somewhere else with their glee as I sat in disgust.  heheh

Weird but fun.  I need to see more games live.

You can sign me up for being a Colt fan first and foremost the rest of the post-season now that the Giants are gone.  Which probably means they won't escape Baltimore.    I'd like nothing more than to see Peyton step it up when no one expects them to win.


----------



## cattoy

You're lucky they aren't playing in the Vet anymore. That place was a pit and it brought out the worst in Eagle's fans. (already a pretty rough lot)

The Vet had a precinct of the local police and a lockup underneath some of the seating. They needed it.

Not only unruly, the facility was itself dangerous. The playing surface was notorious for having soft spots and gaps in the turf, which led to many injuries. Also, I remember one year the Army Navy game had an accident where part of the bleachers collapsed, dumping fans onto a lower level.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I took some classes with some members of the IAAM ( http://iaam.org/ )- according to those guys, arenas with mini-precincts are becoming the norm.  Some of the newest arenas actually have monitoring systems capable of picking out individual faces from the crowd...and are even be able to ID you based upon your seating.


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Weird but fun.  I need to see more games live.




I highly suggest a game at Lambeau, if the opportunity ever presents itself.  I have season tickets, despite living 3 hours away now, and make sure I get to at least one game a year.  It's a great environment.


----------



## Seonaid

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> [A]renas with mini-precincts are becoming the norm.  Some of the newest arenas actually have monitoring systems capable of picking out individual faces from the crowd...and are even be able to ID you based upon your seating.



 Yep, welcome to the Linc (the new Vet).  Gotta love it.

 - Seonaid, Eagles fan (as if you couldn't already tell)


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> I highly suggest a game at Lambeau, if the opportunity ever presents itself.  I have season tickets, despite living 3 hours away now, and make sure I get to at least one game a year.  It's a great environment.



I'd love to see a game on the frozen tundra!  It's one of the few NFL stadiums that probably has any soul left.

The only other place I can think of that I really want to see a pro game is Fenway Park (Boston Red Sox).  Although I'm sure I'm missing a few good stadiums those are the two that would be on the top of my list.


----------



## John Crichton

*Divisional Round Picks*

My picks last week may not have been dead-on in respect to the winners (I was 2-2) but there was much that happened as expected.  Overall, I am losing more and more respect for the NFC as we move forward.  It would be nice to see one of the NFC teams look good this weekend just so we have a competitive Super Bowl.  With that, this week's prognostications.

Colts @ Ravens

Despite completing 30 of 38 passes, Manning had a terrible game against KC.  3 picks and they looked bad, especially when he is out of sync with Harrison.  But, Herm's Chiefs found a way to play worse than Peyton.  No play action, no passes to single covered receivers and no quick hook for Green, who has been terrible for the last 5 weeks.  The bottom line is that Peyton and company played well enough to win a home game but another effort like that will end their season.

I will admit to not watching the Ravens much this year.  What I do know is that they have a very talented group of linebackers and a loaded secondary.  They have an experienced playoff coach and an aging Steve McNair who never fails to look terrible for 50 minutes and then turn it on in the last 10, even if one arm is hanging limp on his side.  The Ravens are the obvious favorite to smashmouth Indy into little bits.

But I'm going with Manning.  There is one left in the playoffs and everyone is already expecting him to stink it up this week.  I see a big effort from him in this game and I Harrison bouncing back as well.  Dallas Clark as the 3rd option is back which makes the passing game that much better.  What I have seen of the Raven's offense doesn't impress me.  They have gotten some wacky/lucky plays to go their way and don't have any bigtime playmakers to put points on the board.  The bottom line is Peyton vs the Raven's D.  If he has a big day, they will win.  If not, they are going home.  I'm going with the Colts on the road in a shocker.


Eagles @ Saints

I think this game is the easiest to pick of the lot.  After seeing the Eagles try and give the game to the Giants in the first half, I think their tank is almost empty.  They have a short week after playing Sunday and playing Saturday, Garcia coming back to earth (which he did) and a crazy Superdome which will end the Eagles' great playoff run.

I was at the game and the Eagles did enough to win.  The Giants took no advantage of excellent field position in the first quarter.  Manning played two games: one where he was very good for 5 minutes at the start and 15 at the end.  I don't know what happened in the other 40 minutes but I did see that Eli Manning missed wide open receivers - and by missed I mean didn't even look their way.  I was not impressed at all by the Eagles performance.  But good teams find a way to win and they did.

This will be a game where the first 20-30 minutes should be competitive.  If the Eagles play defense the way they did against the G-men, Brees will destroy them.  He won't miss open guys like Manning did.  I see this one being over before the 4th quarter even though the Eagles won't look bad, just tired.  Kudos to them, for what was a great season considering they lost their star QB.

That said, I reserve the right to eat these words next week.  The NFC sucks.  


Seahawks @ Bears

The Seahawks played a decent home game last week.  The problem was that they played well enough to lose, it's just that they didn't.  The Romo Game will go down as one of the all-time chokes by a QB.  I'll stand by my statement that the 'Hawks are soft.  They are a shell of a team compared to last year and just like the Giants, made the playoffs because the NFC and especially their division, is terrible.

The Bears are an odd team.  It looks like they have been coasting for the last month.  What I do know is that they have a great defense that can score and is the reason for their record.  They are banged up (who isn't?) but now rested.  Sure, some guys won't be there but that is should be fine.  Smith won't wait to yank Grossman if he is playing like he has in some of the games (0.0 QB Rating?!).  The Bears shouldn't need their QB to play a great game to win this one.  Pound the Seahawks on the ground, stop Alexander and wait for the Saints/Eagles winner to come to town.


Patriots @ Chargers

The game of the weekend!  As interesting as all the games are, this one is the best.  It has the best coach storyline and the biggest questions.  Can Rivers get it done when the Pats take away LDT?  Will Marty tighten up again and choke away home field?  Is LDT good enough to break the Pats excellent front 7?  Can the Brady/Belichick combo take out a loaded team?  Great stuff.

I'm going against my gut here.  My guts say the Pats find a way.  But this year too wacky to follow conventions, not to mention the sports world.  Cowher finally won a Super Bow last year after a history of failure, the Saints won their division, the Jets got 10 wins, Parcells can't control his team, the Detroit Tigers made the World Series, the White Sox and Red Sox won the World Series and these aren't the only examples.  I went with Manning above and I'm going with Marty here.  He give the play calling to his coordinators, sits back and sends the Pats home.

The only way I see the Pats winning this one is if they play a perfect game (which is possible).  That means no turnovers, a big special teams play or two and probably a defensive score.  I wouldn't be surprised if the Pats pull this off, especially with a first year starting QB.  And Rivers/Martyball is the only reason why I'd give the Pats a shot in this one.  Maybe this will even be the game where we see the Pats pay for letting Vinatieri go?

Let's see the Bolts host the Colts next week.  Then we can talk about who ends their playoff futility streak in the head to head - Manning or Marty?  Just feels like that kinda year/decade...


----------



## Crothian

Once again I'm going with all 4 home teams.  I think this is the year that the seeds are really accurate and will fall into place.


----------



## Seonaid

I am 2-2 so far. I think that's pretty good, considering I kind of made them off-the-cuff. Next season I think I'm going to do a weekly pick and keep a tally. Anyone want to compete against me for best season record? 

My picks for this week (home teams in CAPS):

RAVENS over Colts
SAINTS over Eagles (did you know that "stains" is an anagram for "saints"? I typed that by accident at first; it amused me)
BEARS over Seahawks
Pats over CHARGERS

Now, my picks if I had my druthers:
Colts, Eagles, Seahawks, Chargers. Obviously I have a lot of favorites in the teams I think will go all the way.


----------



## John Crichton

Seonaid said:
			
		

> I am 2-2 so far. I think that's pretty good, considering I kind of made them off-the-cuff. Next season I think I'm going to do a weekly pick and keep a tally. Anyone want to compete against me for best season record?



Count me in.  There is Yahoo league that allows this too, call a Pick 'Em league.  Can be done with or without point spreads and multiple folks making picks.

I was in one this year but forgot about it.  Anyone in for an ENworld one for next year?

Thoughts and analysis can be posted here as usual.


----------



## DaveMage

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Count me in.  There is Yahoo league that allows this too, call a Pick 'Em league.  Can be done with or without point spreads and multiple folks making picks.
> 
> I was in one this year but forgot about it.  Anyone in for an ENworld one for next year?
> 
> Thoughts and analysis can be posted here as usual.




reveal runs a non-spread pick 'em on Circvs Maximvs (using ESPN) - come on over next year!

The playoffs are not included, though.

The cool thing about the ESPN one is that the overall winner gets a prize - this year it was a $2000 best buy gift card.

I'm really looking forward to the Chargers - Partiots game.  I have this hunch that NE is going to win, even though the Chargers are the better team....


----------



## Seonaid

Ugh, is the pick 'em on ESPN better than the fantasy on ESPN? 'cause ESPN's fantasy football kind of blows. I mean, a prize is nice and all, but if it's not fun to do it every week, it's just not fun . . .


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

I'll reiterate my concern for my team:  the last time the Saints were in the second round, they were so happy to be there, they forgot to play football.  The Eagles may be out of gas, but the Saints may not even be on the road.

That said...GEAUX SAINTS!


----------



## John Crichton

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> I'll reiterate my concern for my team:  the last time the Saints were in the second round, they were so happy to be there, they forgot to play football.  The Eagles may be out of gas, but the Saints may not even be on the road.



Naw, Peyton will have them ready to go.  Have they ever had a first-round bye?

The Katrina factor has to play in with Brees as well.


----------



## jonathan swift

Couple of sketchy penalty calls/no-calls in a row there in the Ravens game.


----------



## drothgery

Okay, who had 'Colts win a field goal kicking contest' in the pool?


----------



## jonathan swift

drothgery said:
			
		

> Okay, who had 'Colts win a field goal kicking contest' in the pool?





Not me. I'm still riding the home team wins bandwagon. Worked well for me this weekend. Not so well this weekend, but that's just one game.


----------



## jonathan swift

It's only been on quarter, but the Saints are just outclassing the Eagles so far.


----------



## Seonaid

TOUCHDOWN EAGLES! Let's see the away teams upset the home teams all the way!


----------



## jonathan swift

Huge play there.


----------



## Seonaid

That's what we need, baby! Let's see more of that! Or, the score could stay just the way it is . . .

In other, more rational news, that Colts-Ravens game was great! Exciting to the last (well, almost). Am I the only one in the entire world who wanted them to let Vinatieri go for a sixth field goal, so he would be the sole record holder?


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> Okay, who had 'Colts win a field goal kicking contest' in the pool?



Not I.  I thought the Colts would win, but not with their defense.  McNair played terribly and Manning played well against the number one defense in the league.  He didn't score but didn't make any mistakes down the stretch of the game.

Vinatieri, the difference maker.  Great signing.

Back to the Eagles/Saints...


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Couple of sketchy penalty calls/no-calls in a row there in the Ravens game.



Which ones?  I saw the Odgen call which was a little suspect but there was nothing in there that was close to the officiating blunders in last week's Eagles/Giants game.

They let 'em play which was refreshing.


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> reveal runs a non-spread pick 'em on Circvs Maximvs (using ESPN) - come on over next year!
> 
> The playoffs are not included, though.



Count me in.


----------



## Seonaid

John Crichton said:
			
		

> They let 'em play which was refreshing.



 Amen. Too many penalty calls kills the game and pisses off the players and fans. 

This game is kind of difficult for me, as Brees was my fantasy QB. It's tough to see him do well against my team, but it's also tough for me to root against him.

Hell, who am I kidding? No it's not. Go Eagles! (Ugh, but not with plays like that. 19 yards inside the 30 because we can't tackle? Great . . .)


----------



## John Crichton

Eagles so far:  Playing feisty defense but Garcia should have been picked off twice so far.  Just like in the Giants game he's been bad with the one exception.

Saints:  Just scored.


----------



## John Crichton

Random Colts game thoughts as I sit through the commercials -

Manning probably should have been picked two more times than he did.  McNair should have had one more as well.  I was impressed by the Colts overall gameplan.  They could have tried to go all out, as they have in the past but they decided to line up and run the ball, pass when needed and take a few shots down the field.  Manning tried some quick counts/snaps (worked once, failed lots) and his usual pre-snap theatrics were in full effect but I thought that the toned down gameplan was a good one from Dungy.

Gamebreaker 1:  Ravens picked off at the 1 on the way in for a score and Indy turning it into 3.

Gamebreaker 2:  The long drive at the end to salt away the game and kill all but 30 seconds of the clock.  Some hard fought 1st downs on that drive.

The moment I first thought that this just might be Indy's day:  Vinatieri bouncing the 51 yarder off the crossbar and through to score.


----------



## John Crichton

Wow.

Westbrook breaks another big run.  This one is turning into a track meet.  Last one with the ball wins...


----------



## jonathan swift

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Random Colts game thoughts as I sit through the commercials -
> 
> Manning probably should have been picked two more times than he did.  McNair should have had one more as well.  I was impressed by the Colts overall gameplan.  They could have tried to go all out, as they have in the past but they decided to line up and run the ball, pass when needed and take a few shots down the field.  Manning tried some quick counts/snaps (worked once, failed lots) and his usual pre-snap theatrics were in full effect but I thought that the toned down gameplan was a good one from Dungy.
> 
> Gamebreaker 1:  Ravens picked off at the 1 on the way in for a score and Indy turning it into 3.
> 
> Gamebreaker 2:  The long drive at the end to salt away the game and kill all but 30 seconds of the clock.  Some hard fought 1st downs on that drive.
> 
> The moment I first thought that this just might be Indy's day:  Vinatieri bouncing the 51 yarder off the crossbar and through to score.





Gamebreaker 3: The neutral zone infraction call that should have been a false start that put the Colts into a manageble third down after being back against their own goal line.


----------



## Crothian

Saints answer!!  We have a ball game!!


----------



## jonathan swift

Yeah, this game is already more exciting than the Colts/Ravens game. That one ended up a comedy of errors much like the Seahawks/'Boys game.


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Gamebreaker 3: The neutral zone infraction call that should have been a false start that put the Colts into a manageble third down after being back against their own goal line.



 Can't agree there.  It was close but when a defender jumps that far offside the call can go either way.


----------



## jonathan swift

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Can't agree there.  It was close but when a defender jumps that far offside the call can go either way.





it's one thing when the defender jumps and then the offensive lineman moves. but when the defender moves, and almost gets back on his side before the lineman moves...


----------



## jonathan swift

In other news, go Saints.


----------



## John Crichton

Right, I understand the difference, but the defense can't draw the offense offsides - that's a penalty.  When the defender moves first, regardless of if he gets back behind the line before the snap (the ball was never snapped) that's a penalty.  No player may violate the neutral zone before the snap.


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> In other news, go Saints.



 Heheh, yes please.

This is a more entertaining game but I enjoyed the Colts win very much.  They are the team left that I am actively routing for.


----------



## Crothian

It's nice to see the Colts actually win a pair of playoff games this years.  IT is very surprising they are winning with the way Manning is playing.


----------



## jonathan swift

The only team in the playoffs I cared about at all is the Chargers. Well, lots of teams I didn't like, but yeah. But the Saints are a feel good story.


----------



## jonathan swift

And the Eagles just gave up by punting.


----------



## Seonaid

I would say that I'm going to go cry now, but it's not like I (and the entire rest of the fan base) didn't expect it.


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> And the Eagles just gave up by punting.



 4th and 15, you have to punt.  They simply needed to stop the run and with two timeouts could have had a chance.

Again, you could choose to go for it there but that's a tough order.  4th & 10 was a good go but 4th & 15... yikes.

EDIT:  Hmmm, now that I think about it, I would have probably gone for it.


----------



## jonathan swift

Yeah. You never have to punt. Less than two minutes left. Down by three. You haven't been able to stop them all half. This is the postseason, you lose and you go home. Play to win, not to contain the loss.


----------



## Seonaid

A-freaking-men!


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Yeah. You never have to punt. Less than two minutes left. Down by three. You haven't been able to stop them all half. This is the postseason, you lose and you go home. Play to win, not to contain the loss.



 When first considering, I forgot all about the Eagles getting pounded all night by the running game.  In that circumstance, take the long-shot chance.


----------



## kenobi65

I think I'll be a Saints fan now. 

It'll break my wife's heart, her being a Bear fan and everything.


----------



## babomb

Who dat say dey gonna beat dem Saints? WOO!

Deuce McAllister played a hell of a game.


----------



## Gunslinger

Such a very winnable game we managed to lose! The run defense back to it's terrible self, losing Shaun Andrews, Westrbook's dropped pases, the decision to punt.  The NO secondary was ripe for the torching all night, but Jeff Garcia ran out of gas in the third quarter (which McNabbb would not have done).

At least we made it this far.


----------



## Seonaid

I suppose that's fair since we *did* lose our "star quarterback." No one expected us to do this well. And there's always next year! (she says with false cheer).


----------



## DaveMage

The Eagles should be very proud of themselves the way they stayed in the hunt after losing Kearse and McNabb.

The Saints, though, are playing excellent football.  I think they'll beat either Chicago or Seattle (although if the weather gets too poor and they have to travel to Chicago, well, all bets are off).


----------



## drothgery

Yup. Saints/Eagles was the actual NFC championship game (I mean, sure, they've got to beat the Bears/Seahawks non-loser, but it won't matter much). Chargers/Pats is the actual AFC championship game (because Indy's defense might have massively stepped up in the last two weeks, but unless they keep it up and Peyton gets his mojo back, they aren't going to beat the Chargers or Pats). And the actual Super Bowl, as no one from the junior varsity, err, NFC has much of a shot against the Chargers, Pats, or Colts (well, the Eagles, with a healthy McNabb and Kearse, are right up there with them, but that's a hypothetical exercise).


----------



## Crothian

Bears first drive looked good!!


----------



## DaveMage

Bears/Seahawks - great game!

So it's New Orleans and Chicago in the NFC championship game.  

Should be a fun one to watch....


----------



## Crothian

Go Saints!!  THough it might be a tough game for them in the north.


----------



## babomb

That Bears/Seahawks game was great, but I'm a little disappointed the Saints don't play in the dome next week. It think they can win (but they'll play better they did than last night) and make it to the Super Bowl, though I doubt they'll beat the AFC champs. Still, it's an _annus mirabilis_ for the Saints and anything can happen. Heck, the Saints making it to the Super Bowl is more than I could have hoped for.


----------



## Crothian

The AFC game is pretty good.  Chargers seem to have the advantages but the Pats just aren't letting them.


----------



## DaveMage

And the Curse of Marty continues....


----------



## John Crichton

Well, the Pats did play nearly a perfect game.  Took advantage of their breaks and got it done.  Dang.  

Manning gets a chance to play the Pats at home for a title shot.  That should be fun.


----------



## Crothian

Ya, it will make for a more interesting game to talk about since they have their history.  And the Colts have to bbe happy to get the home game.


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> And the Curse of Marty continues....




Yup, though this time, I'm not sure you can fault his playcalling.

If the game swung on one play, it was the fourth-down interception that then got fumbled back to the Patriots.  If the Chargers DB was thinking straight, he just slams the ball to the turf, rather than try to take it and run with it (but, in that situation, I imagine it's hard to keep thinking straight).

Though, as I type this, the one thing I can fault Marty for is calling for a review on that play.  It cost him a timeout, and, as it turned out, they could have used another timeout.


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> If the game swung on one play, it was the fourth-down interception that then got fumbled back to the Patriots.  If the Chargers DB was thinking straight, he just slams the ball to the turf, rather than try to take it and run with it (but, in that situation, I imagine it's hard to keep thinking straight).
> 
> Though, as I type this, the one thing I can fault Marty for is calling for a review on that play.  It cost him a timeout, and, as it turned out, they could have used another timeout.



Spot on.  Marty added insult to injury with the challenge.

I can't exactly recall, but they wasted another timeout after not running a play.  Those two wasted timeouts, plus River's inexperience at the end (20+ seconds to setup a play at the end?) cost them at the least a decent FG chance and overtime, if not a TD.  I may have even tried a sideline pass with 8 seconds left to try for 10 more yards, but that is beside the point.  I really felt that Rivers could have done more with an extra 30 seconds.

And that's not even counting the poor use of the last timeout with 15 seconds until the 2-minute warning.  They should have saved the timeout and called it after a play was run past the 2MW.


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> Ya, it will make for a more interesting game to talk about since they have their history.  And the Colts have to bbe happy to get the home game.



Yup.  I will be cheering heavily for Manning and the Colts.

Funny thing, as a Giants fan - It's a carryover from my fantasy team this year.  I had Manning, Wayne, Clark & Addai so I was already watching almost all their games and hoping they did well.  I gotta say that it's really added alot to this season for me as I get still have a team when my team is out.  Sports Bigamy?  No, as if the two teams play again the Colts will be the hated enemy.


----------



## drothgery

Okay, does anyone know when Belicheck's pact with Satan runs out? I mean, really, this is getting absurd ...


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> Okay, does anyone know when Belicheck's pact with Satan runs out? I mean, really, this is getting absurd ...




The Colts are hoping it's before next Sunday's game....


----------



## Rodrigo Istalindir

DaveMage said:
			
		

> And the Curse of Marty continues....




It's not a curse when it's self-inflicted


----------



## drothgery

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> It's not a curse when it's self-inflicted




The major reason why the Chargers lost was a fumble after an interception. I'm not sure what Marty could have done about that one.


----------



## Rodrigo Istalindir

drothgery said:
			
		

> The major reason why the Chargers lost was a fumble after an interception. I'm not sure what Marty could have done about that one.




Marty decided this year that he was going to be a hands-off coach, leaving all the nitty-gritty to the coordinators (notice he didn't even have a headset on?) and he was going to be responsible for strategic decisions and game management.  So, if you're going to turn over the bulk of your job to subordinates (and you can bet it's those guys that will lose their jobs), then you'd damn sure be bang-up job on clock management, challenges, etc.  Which Marty didn't do.  

But the damning series wasn't the turnover  -- that stuff happens -- it was the next drive where instead of just letting LT run the ball twice to try and pick up five yards (and he was *averaging* five yards a carry), they called two short Rivers dump passes, failing to get the first down, and not burning any clock or forcing the Pats to burn some timeouts.

But hey, my hat of Marty knows no bounds for years now, so I'm just as happy.  Not that I like the Pats much, but there is some residual love for Belichick from his days with the Giants.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Both teams played well enough to win, IMHO.  At least, most of the time.

Considering how clean that game was, one of the big turning points in the game has to be the Personal Foul for the headbutt after the Patriots fumble.  No other foul in the game showed such an alarming lack (or lapse) of discipline.

As for the Fumbleception?  That was just freaky.  And, just like he's supposed to, Tom Brady showed that he has liquid nitrogen for blood & a killer instinct.

Marty's Challenge?  I think at that point his inner self was going "Oh no, not again!" and he panicked- tossing the laundry was all he could do.

Ah, well- Colts vs Patriots.  Can Peyton win the BIG game?  Can he beat the Pats when it REALLY matters?

Or does Tom still own the Colts like they were his private collection of My Little Ponies?


----------



## DaveMage

If I ever had any thoughts that I wanted Marty Schottenheimer as my coach (which I probably didn't anyway), this quote confirms I don't (article here):



			
				Marty Schottenheimer said:
			
		

> "Right now, the only thing I'm interested in is making sure that the group of young men in the locker room and the coaching staff understand that, while we didn't go anywhere in these playoffs, we had a darned good football season,'' Schottenheimer said.
> 
> "At this point, I'll take some comfort in that. It kind of balances the disappointment of today.''




True champion teams believe there is no such thing as a "darned good football season" unless you walk away as Super Bowl champions.   Anything else is a disappointment that can't be offset by a nice regular season record.


----------



## Crothian

True Champion Teams?  If the Raiders beleived that, it would not make them a TRue Champion team.  It can be an element of a true champion team, but it doesn't have to be.  There is nothing wrong with feeling good about a good season.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> There is nothing wrong with feeling good about a good season.




I guess it depends on what you consider a good season.    

To me, a good season is either 

a) Winning a championship, or 
b) Having a winning season after a losing season

Once you've had that winning season, though (as the Chargers did last year), if you don't win it all, then I'm not sure I'd call it a good season, no matter what happens.

The problem is (with Marty), if you're satisfied with making the playoffs, I don't think that's good enough.  I certainly don't want my favorite team's coach satisfied with just making the playoffs.  If he is, I'd want a new coach.


----------



## Crothian

It's not good to be satisfied to be in the playoffs when you are in them.  But once you are out and its all over I think it is fine to be thankful and proud you made it that far.  only 8 of the 32 teams made it as far as they did.  That's pretty good.  They didn't make the playoffs last year, this year they did.  It is an improvement and something to build on.


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> It's not good to be satisfied to be in the playoffs when you are in them.  But once you are out and its all over I think it is fine to be thankful and proud you made it that far.  only 8 of the 32 teams made it as far as they did.  That's pretty good.  They didn't make the playoffs last year, this year they did.  It is an improvement and something to build on.





I think it's okay to find positives in such a season, certainly, but I'm not sure I'd use the word "proud".  (I know it sounds like I'm splitting hairs here.)  Again, I think that the expectation should be to win the Super Bowl, especially when you go 14-2 in the regular season.  Anything short of a Super Bowl win after going 14-2 has to be considered disappointing.  I just get the feeling with Marty that he doesn't have the killer instinct to win it all - but rather is satisfied that the Chargers got to the playoffs at all.  I want a coach who won't be satisfied until he wins it all.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

I saw that the Panthers finally (in certain people's opinions) fired Offensive Coordinator Dan Henning. I know there were quite a few times where one wondered why he would call such and such play (usually on third and long and do a run play, especially when you just KNOW your team is teh sucketh in third down conversions!) and end up having to punt the ball away. Maybe they can get someone who can be more aggressive in the play calling.


----------



## Seonaid

On CM, I put 25 denarii each (all I could afford) on the Colts & Saints.

As has been mentioned, the Saints are better balanced than the Bears and the entire world (or so it seems, sometimes) is rooting for them. It'll be boring by half-time and the only ones who will be surprised by this are the Saints and Bears franchises (and their respective fans). 

As for Indy, they're at home and are due for a big win (and this certainly would count!). It'll be close, but the fired-up Colts D will put pressure on Brady and the line, and Manning will hold together just long enough to lose to the Saints in S. Florida.


----------



## Crothian

A little over 12 hours away and with a snow storm to hit tommorrow I see no reason to not sit in front of the TV all day!!


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> A little over 12 hours away and with a snow storm to hit tommorrow I see no reason to not sit in front of the TV all day!!



 Do you really need a reason on Championship Sunday?


----------



## John Crichton

*Conference Championship Round Picks*

I had the Colts, Bears, Saints & Bolts last week.  3-1 isn't bad.  If I went with my gut in the Pats game I would have been 4-0.  5-3 overall isn't terrible and I'll take it, even if I should have never picked the Giants in the first round(NY fan, here).  But enough about me!  Pull up a chair, put some breakfast in front of the laptop, and on to my picks for the last really fun football Sunday of this season!

Saints @ Bears

How can you not like the feel-good Saints after the disasters of last year?  They are fun to watch.  From Brees' excellent quarterbacking, the best in the playoffs by far at his position to the Deuce/Bush tandem and Sean Peyton's clever play calling there isn't a more exciting offense around.

The Bears looked very beatable last week.  They made the Seahawks look good.  Alexander played great against their vaunted defense resulting in 24 points and a trip to overtime.  Overtime!  Against a team that should have lost to the Cowboys at home and looked very soft.  Well, it was the Bears who looked a little soft and a little jittery.  Grossman had a good game for him.  He made some excellent throws when it mattered and coughed the ball up a few times while looking terrible.  In all, I was not impressed.

That brings up tonight's contest.  If the Bear's D plays like that against the Saints, they will get into a shootout that they do not want against a hot team with karma on their side.  With the exception of the Redskins game at home the Saints have looked like a solid winner for two months while the Bears have looked shaky, especially at QB.

There are three factors I'm basing my pick on:  The weather/home field for the Bears, the QBs & special teams.

The forecast is for snow (60% chance, low wind, temp ~30F) and that does not bode well for the long passing game and the versatile Saints offense.  Anything that can take away a chunk of their attack is a big plus for the other team.  It will be interesting to see if the running back tandem could be enough in the elements against a banged up Bears Defense if they can look for the run.  That said, the Saints have been a solid road team so take away a little of the home field advantage away from the Bears there.

There isn't even a question of who the better QB is.  Grossman looks terrible under pressure and turns the ball over when on the run.  Brees is the opposite and the perfect example of a battle tested veteran.  If the game is close, the QBs are a big factor.  Grossman is very good on deep passes but I don't expect to see many of those if the weather is bad.

And last, special teams.  Hester was a non-factor against the Seahawks.  He was fumbling punts and looked like the rookie he is.  For much of the season the Bears counted him a weapon for scoring.  I expect him to bounce back, even if the weather is bad, and have a good game to at least give the Bears some decent field position.

So, which Grossman do we see?  The shaky version or the composed version?  Smith did a good job of opening up the offense early last week to give him some confidence.  He made some bad plays along the way but got the job done with a huge pass in OT.  I say we see that same guy this week as the Saints don't have the defensive personnel to take advantage of the shaky QB.

I could see both games coming down to OT.  If the weather is bad, each team should score  in the early 20's.  If it's not snowing, it will be cold but we'll see more points, probably in the 30's.  The Saints are the sexy pick, the feel good pick and the team I'll be routing for - hard.

But the Super Bowl we all want to see isn't going to happen.  The Bears, with an inspired defensive effort squeak one out at home, in the elements.


Patriots @ Colts

By far the better of the 2 games, and for obvious reasons.  We've heard, read and seen all week about Manning's quest for a ring, his struggles against Belichick's Defense and the comparisons to Marino's inability to win the big one.  Then, the largest knock against Manning - choking in the playoffs.  Manning can put that all behind him in one fell swoop by beating the Pats.  There will never be a better time than now.

Manning played well enough to win last week against a terrific defense.  He could have been picked 2 more times if Ray Lewis hadn't tipped the ball away at the last second.  No touchdowns is not a good day for him but he did seal the game with a perfect finishing drive that killed the clock and put the game away.  He converted the 3rd downs on that drive that his team needed and that was enough.  The Ravens played a terrible game and McNair looked done.  That interception as they were going in for a touchdown was the turning point of that game.  Credit the Colts Defense.  Huh?  More on this in a second...

The Pats stole one in San Diego.  McCree's pick-n-fumble was all Brady needed to pull himself off the mat and work his late game magic.  Brady could have had 6 picks in that game and was under fire the whole time.  It turns out that Belichick couldn't take away LDT.  And in the critical last quarter, the Bolts stopped giving the best player in the league the ball when he was killing the Pats all day.  Wow.  Terrible play calling by the current head coach of the Dolphins.  Credit Brady for making the plays when needed and fault the Bolts for essentially giving them the game when they had all the advantages.

So now, the Colts end up with the AFC Championship game at home.  That's what they need if they are ever to beat the Pats.  Both QB's looked terrible last week and that won't happen again.  The Pats offense is better than they looked last week and the Colts will play much better on the carpet at home.  The Pats offense is not scary but they have the best clutch QB on the planet which gives them a fighting chance for 50 minutes and turns into an advantage in the last 10 + OT.

Both defenses look good and the Colts are even playing a little physical which is great to see.  Bob Sanders has really helped them get a little swagger.  But then you have the mastermind on the other sideline in Belichick.  Overall, if this game was in Foxborough the Pats should be a heavy favorite and I would give the Colts little chance.  But it's not so I'm calling this one an even battle.

I see Special Teams playing a big role in this one.  Score will probably be somewhere tight in the mid-20's.  The only way I see this not coming down to the final drive is if somehow Manning is able to score a few quick touchdowns and let the Colt's pass rushers pin back their ears and go after Brady.  And I don't see that happening.

This is a different Colts team than in the past.  They don't need an A+ effort from Manning to win (although it would be nice).  That will get them over the hump against the hated Pats who will not go easily.  The Pats have gotten all the breaks in their Super Bowl runs and what better place for the clock to strike midnight than in Indy?  I'll take the Colts to stay unbeaten at home this season and send Manning into the Super Bowl spotlight he deserves.

Enjoy the games, everyone!


----------



## DaveMage

I can't make a prediction on either game.  I'm just gonna sit back and watch some fun football!


----------



## Crothian

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Do you really need a reason on Championship Sunday?




No, but it is nice to have them


----------



## Ghostwind

Bears are looking good.


----------



## Crothian

I wouldn't say they are looking good.  They should have gotten a TD there.  THe Defense is looking good and as long as the Saints can't hold onto the ball the Bears D is going to look even better.


----------



## Dungannon

Yeah, it's not that the Bears are looking good as much as it is the Saints look overwhelmed by the whole situation.


----------



## Crothian

Wow, that 88 yard TD by Bush was impressive!!


----------



## Ghostwind

Highlight of the day, I'll bet. Awesome run.


----------



## Crothian

I think that is the Highlight of the post season!!


----------



## John Crichton

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think that is the Highlight of the post season!!



 Agreed.  That was eye-popping!


----------



## Crothian

Well, the Saints had a good run this season.


----------



## DaveMage

Yep.

Rose from the ashes they did....


----------



## John Crichton

And it looks like the Bears in a blowout.  I thought they'd win, but it would be closer than this.  Bummer.

Time to get ready for Pats @ Colts.


----------



## Dungannon

Crothian said:
			
		

> I think that is the Highlight of the post season!!



I'm still partial to the Romo Play.


----------



## Dungannon

Well, my 5 year old son, who informed me last weekend when I went to visit him that he has been corrupted by his environment and become a Bears fan, will be happy today so I guess that's a positive.


----------



## Ghostwind

A touchdown by fumble is just insane.


----------



## John Crichton

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> A touchdown by fumble is just insane.



 Only the Pats could get that lucky.


----------



## Ghostwind

Colts are self-destructing. This is not how I want to watch a game. I hope they settle down and start playing solid football and make a comeback.


----------



## John Crichton

I would say it's a combo of being a little off plus good plays by the Pats.  Two huge 4th downs that result in 20+ yards.

Okay, and now a pick for a TD.  :: sigh ::


----------



## Ghostwind

The Colts defense needs to play like they have been during the last couple of games so Manning can do his work better.


----------



## Crothian

First time in a while the Super Bowl with have no interest to me.


----------



## Ghostwind

I don't care what the refs said, that was pass interference!


----------



## Crothian

Another year of legailized patriot mugging of the Colts.


----------



## trancejeremy

While the Pats do get away with mugging the receivers, he pretty clearly tripped over his own feet if you watch the replay.


----------



## trancejeremy

Anyway, congrats to Lovie Smith for making it to the Superbowl.  While I can't say I like the Bears much, Lovie was a really great coach when he was with the Rams and a lot of Rams fans wished we had dumped Martz sooner and kept him.


----------



## Ghostwind

Colts tie it and then blow it on the next play.


----------



## John Crichton

Still, this is a better game than it was looking to be in the 1st half.


----------



## John Crichton

And the Colts answer!  W00t!


----------



## Ghostwind

Now this is a ball game!


----------



## Ghostwind

Colts just scored a HUGE touchdown!!!


----------



## Crothian

Brady has so much time though.....


----------



## Dungannon

One last chance for Brady to work his magic...


----------



## Crothian

*WOW!!!!*


----------



## John Crichton

And The Colts Win!!!!!!!!!


----------



## Crothian

That was one hell of a comeback!!!!!


----------



## Dungannon

And the Colts hold on and win!  Man, what an exciting game, and I'm not even a fan of these teams.


----------



## Ghostwind

Hot Damn! It's Colts vs. Bears in the Super Bowl.

Best comeback ever. No question.


----------



## John Crichton

OMG

The Colts D finally puts a stake through the Pats and Brady.

Wayne nearly stripped on the TD drive.

Brady driving the field, 20 yards at a time.  The lead never felt safe.

I'm not even a Colts fan and that felt good.  Real good.


----------



## DaveMage

Congrats to the Colts - those bastards.


----------



## John Crichton

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> Best comeback ever. No question.



And the stats to back it up.  18 down against the Pats?  Wow.

I certainly hope Peyton can get his ring, especially after this one.

Let the two weeks of Super Bowl talk begin.

bleh

I really wish the game was next Sunday.


----------



## Crothian

Ya, not a Colts fan either but with two Midwest teams in the Super Bowl things will be fun around here!!


----------



## Gunslinger

Game of the year, easily.


----------



## Ghostwind

The state of Indiana will be going insane for the next two weeks.


----------



## Crothian

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> The state of Indiana will be going insane for the next two weeks.




And the city of Baltimore is in tears


----------



## dogoftheunderworld

I just want all of the sports casters to start eating a little crow.  "The Colts can't beat... the Chiefs.... the Ravens... the Pats...."   

Oh, come on... just a little....    


(Go Colts!)


PS... I am now okay with building a new stadium, please commence immediately.  (Not that they waited for me..)


----------



## John Crichton

dogoftheunderworld said:
			
		

> I just want all of the sports casters to start eating a little crow.  "The Colts can't beat... the Chiefs.... the Ravens... the Pats...."



I know I don't count, but I had the Colts all the way.


----------



## Seonaid

Dungannon said:
			
		

> And the Colts hold on and win!  Man, what an exciting game, and I'm not even a fan of these teams.



QFT! And who would have predicted that last interception? What a way to end the game!







			
				John Crichton said:
			
		

> I'm not even a Colts fan and that felt good.



Liar. We all know you're secretly not a Giants fan.


----------



## John Crichton

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Liar. We all know you're secretly not a Giants fan.



* gasp *

Guh.  Ack.

 


Go G-men


----------



## Seonaid

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Go Colts



FIFY.

Aaaand . . . I'll say something of substance:

The Colts will do their best, but fall by the end of the third quarter, at which point we'll see the best Manning face yet.


----------



## Jayster Fett

dogoftheunderworld said:
			
		

> I just want all of the sports casters to start eating a little crow.  "The Colts can't beat... the Chiefs.... the Ravens... the Pats...."
> 
> Oh, come on... just a little....
> 
> 
> (Go Colts!)




Hey, those same sportscasters need a second helping saying that the Bears wouldn't beat the Seahawks...or the Saints!!  

Honestly, these are the two best teams - they were the last two undefeateds and ended with best records.  Any other year I'd be cheering for Peyton to get his ring...but since I'm a Chicago-boy, I want URLACHER to get his first!!  

Anyway, it's going to be a great game, and I'll be happy to watch it!  And host the party!!


----------



## Steve Jung

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> A touchdown by fumble is just insane.



What about 2?


----------



## John Crichton

Seonaid said:
			
		

> FIFY.
> 
> Aaaand . . . I'll say something of substance:
> 
> The Colts will do their best, but fall by the end of the third quarter, at which point we'll see the best Manning face yet.



Oh, I'll be rooting for the Colts, that's for sure.

But I think I showed my Giant colors by attending the Eagles home playoff game against them.    I have the mental scars to prove it.


----------



## John Crichton

Steve Jung said:
			
		

> What about 2?



 That's just crazy talk.  CRAZY I say.  

What a great game.  So many things happened that we will probably never see again in one game.  The last time I was this jazzed about a win was 2003, when Boone finished off the Red Sox with an extra inning home run.


----------



## Rodrigo Istalindir

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Oh, I'll be rooting for the Colts, that's for sure.
> 
> But I think I showed my Giant colors by attending the Eagles home playoff game against them.    I have the mental scars to prove it.




You're lucky they're just mental scars!  Eagles fans are the worst in the country.


----------



## John Crichton

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> You're lucky they're just mental scars!  Eagles fans are the worst in the country.



 Yeah, I know.  I think it was good that they won.  I was fearing a lynching.


----------



## Seonaid

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> You're lucky they're just mental scars!  Eagles fans are the worst in the country.



 Heh heh heh . . . And we like it that way! Oh wait, I mean, uh, we were framed!


----------



## drothgery

Jayster Fett said:
			
		

> Honestly, these are the two best teams - they were the last two undefeateds and ended with best records.




The Chargers had a better regular season record than both the Bears and Colts; the Ravens had a better record than the Colts (and the same record as the Bears). SD was 14-2; Baltimore and Chicago were 13-3; Indy was 12-4.


----------



## John Crichton

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Heh heh heh . . . And we like it that way! Oh wait, I mean, uh, we were framed!



 FrAmEd?!

I may never recover.


----------



## Jayster Fett

drothgery said:
			
		

> The Chargers had a better regular season record than both the Bears and Colts; the Ravens had a better record than the Colts (and the same record as the Bears). SD was 14-2; Baltimore and Chicago were 13-3; Indy was 12-4.




Mea Culpa on the Chargers...thought they lost 3 as well.  And I was just ignoring the Ravens for no apparently good reason except that they had the same record as the Bears!


----------



## DaveMage

Jayster Fett said:
			
		

> Mea Culpa on the Chargers...thought they lost 3 as well.  And I was just ignoring the Ravens for no apparently good reason except that they had the same record as the Bears!




The Chargers certainly pissed their season away, didn't they?


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> The Chargers certainly pissed their season away, didn't they?




:rimshot:  He'll be here all week, folks.


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> The Chargers certainly pissed their season away, didn't they?




Were't the locals 4-0 while Merriman was out? 

No, they fumbled their season away, or they head-butted their season away, but pissed away? Nope, don't see it.


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> Were't the locals 4-0 while Merriman was out?
> 
> No, they fumbled their season away, or they head-butted their season away, but pissed away? Nope, don't see it.




You must have missed this:

http://www.kfmb.com/sports/chargers/story.php?id=78975

The Chargers had a wee bit of a problem....


----------



## Gunslinger

Accuscore gives the Colts a 60% chance of winning, but that drops to 51% if Devin Hester can return a kick for a TD.  Should be a good game.


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> You must have missed this:
> 
> http://www.kfmb.com/sports/chargers/story.php?id=78975
> 
> The Chargers had a wee bit of a problem....




Eh. Kiel's not that good, anyway.


----------



## Dungannon

Well, the HoF class of '07 was announced today and I think it's an absolute TRAVESTY that Michael Irvin got in ahead of Art Monk.   

Monk: 940 receptions, 12,721 yards, 68 touchdowns, 3 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl wins.
Irvin: 750 receptions, 11,904 yards, 65 touchdowns, 5 Pro Bowls, 3 Super Bowl wins.


----------



## John Crichton

*Super Bowl Pick*

_After much deliberation, over-analysis, NFL web surfing, radio listening, TV watching and more analysis I finally have my Super Bowl pick.  Why did I wait this long?  Because now it’s Sunday and I really give a hoot at this point.  This should be a fun day for the last game of the season.  So, without further delay…_

Colts @ Bears

I could write pages about this game from all I’ve soaked in from the last few weeks.  I could talk about Manning’s Legacy, the black head coaches' first time, the Colts being the heavy favorite and the Bears having a chip on their shoulder after hearing about it for 2 weeks, Devin Hester’s kick return ability against the Colts' dreadful kick coverage, Vinatieri’s clutch ability or Tank Johnson's firing range accuracy.  Instead, I have 3 main points to be taken in no particular order.


*Point #1:  AFC vs. NFC*

The NFC was the inferior conference this season, by far.  If the Bears were in the AFC, there is a good chance they end up with 10 wins and probably a wild card.  All year, the assumption was that whoever came out of the AFC would be the Super Bowl favorite and rightly so.  It should have been the Chargers but instead the representative is the Colts, who are not a perfect team.

I won’t bore you with match-ups here (I’ll do that later!) but here is the road Chicago took to the big game:  Seahawks at home in OT and Saints at home in the snow.  They barely beat the ‘Hawks and the Saints game was much closer than the blowout score indicates.  Chicago was in serious trouble early on in that game after jumping out to a big lead.

Here is the road the Colts took:  Chiefs at home (a team that looked lost with a terrible game plan), Ravens on the road and the hated Pats at home.  Those last two are very impressive victories against teams that were 13-3 and 12-4 respectively.  The Bears' opponents were 9-7 and 10-6.  Compare the challenge level of opponents and the Colts are the clear favorite.


*Point #2:  Quarterbacks *

We have a Hall of Fame QB playing a guy with 25 starts.  Grossman is a fearless passer, throws a great deep ball and has done enough to win, so far.  The Colts won’t have to do much to rattle Grossman, who has looked very tight this week in interviews.  As opposed to Manning, who looks all business and very loose.  Grossman will have to squelch his ego, play a smart game and pick his spots to win.  He doesn’t have to win the game for the Bears, but he could certainly lose it by trying to do too much and take on Manning pass-for-pass.

Manning played well at the end of the Ravens game and was great in the second half against the Pats.  Grossman made a good throw in OT to help beat the Seahawks.  I guess it comes down to which QB you would rather have with the ball, needing a touchdown with 2 minutes on the clock.  If the game is close at the end, the choice is easy.


*Point #3: Defensive Match-ups *

There is plenty to look at but I think it boils down to the following:  The Colts defense replicating the last 3 weeks performance against the run.  I have no doubt that the Bears will try to use their 2-headed running attack to sustain long drives, minimize Grossman’s effect on the game and keep Manning on the sidelines like the ’90 Giants vs. the Bills' no-huddle offense.  In that game, the G-men kept the ball for 40 minutes and still barely won.  The Colts will stack the line and make Grossman throw.  He throws good seam and post passes a but his short and medium game is still developing.  KC and Baltimore were supposed to smashmouth the Colts and that didn’t work out too well for them.  I believe the Bears' ground game is better than both of those teams, the problem is the passing attack and the inexperienced QB.  I don’t think the Bears can run the ball as well as that Giants team, but we’ll see.

The Bears are excellent at creating turnovers.  Kick returns and turnovers give their offense a short field where their running game and play-action passes can take over and strike quickly.   Turnovers are an X-factor as they can’t be counted because the Colts protect the ball fairly well.  And with the Bears' attack-the-ball attitude, tackling in the secondary tends to become suspect.  However, their linebackers pursue and tackle well.  Their corners are above average but their safeties can be pump faked out of position.  This is something Manning is a master at, which opens up deep sideline passes to Harrison and Wayne.  So it really comes down to the pass rush with 4 men on Manning, covering 3 very good receivers and stopping the running back (usually Addai) on check downs.  That is something the Bears’ linebackers can handle with their great speed but this defensive scheme will leave running lanes open.  It will be interesting to see how the Bears try to slow down Manning and company.

Peyton is good for at least 5 scores per game.  That’s a minimum of either 15 points (5 FGs) or 35 (5 TDs) so I'll split the difference and say that he’ll get the Colts at least 25 points.  Baltimore is a better defense than the Bears and kept Manning out of the end zone.  That was on the road and the Colts were forced to play a more conservative game.  Can the Bears replicate that effort?  Chicago can score but will they be able to keep up with Manning when even the Pats couldn't?


*Extra Point: The Weather Conditions *

As much as the Colts need to sweat Hester’s ability to return kicks the Colts should be worried more about the rain.  Right now, there is a 40% chance that there will be rain at kickoff and will continue through the game.  That is a big advantage for the Bears even though the field has a great drainage system, which will prevent the field from becoming a sloppy mess and destroy the Colts offensive timing.  Anything that can take away some of Manning’s accuracy is good for the Bears.  I would go as far as to say that the Bears would gain the upper hand in the game if the rains do come as it would presumably take away one of Manning's 5 theoretical scores.


*The Bottom Line *

The Bears drew their best match-up in this game.  If the Pats or Chargers were their opponent they would be a 10 point underdog.  A Ravens match-up would have been similar to this game, however Grossman would be a huge liability against that defense rather than simply a question mark.  Historically speaking, there is a possibility that Peyton could drop 14 points on the Bears before they can blink, which leads to a blowout.  The opposite is less likely to happen, barring multiple early Colts turnovers.

The Colts are battle tested against the best in both leagues.  They only needed Manning to win 3 quarters so far in the post-season and the rest of the team, especially the defense, has stepped up.  The Bears need too much to go right to win.  I don’t know if the game will be good for a half, a blowout or a classic but the Colts will find a way to win this one.  Manning gets his ring.

“Cut that meat!”

Enjoy the game, folks.


----------



## John Crichton

Halftime thoughts:

I'm sure I'm not the only one shocked that Vinatieri missed that short FG.  But the Colts get the ball back and should run another 5-6 minute drive.

At this pace, the Bears' defense will have nothing left for the 4th quarter.

If not for Hester's TD return the Bears would simply look terrible right now.  I wonder why hasn't been back there on the last 2.

6 turnovers in one half?!?

Grossman looks bad.  Really bad.  I'm not surprised.  He's going to need to win this game for the Bears as the running game isn't working - with the exception of that one run.

Sloppy but fun game so far.


----------



## DaveMage

Yeah, I have to give the edge to the Colts so far, though I don't think Grossman has looked *that* bad (he is 6 of 8 passing, albeit for only 32 yards).

Although if Vinatieri misses any more field goals (!) - anthing is possible.

Should be interesting...


On a side note, are these some of the lamest super bowl ads ever, or what???


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Although if Vinatieri misses any more field goals (!) - anthing is possible.



Heheh, it's not the 4th quarter yet.  He's missed in the SB before but that was a short one.  Surprising.



			
				DaveMage said:
			
		

> On a side note, are these some of the lamest super bowl ads ever, or what???



Some are good and there are certainly a few duds in there.  I've liked the Bud Light ones so far and the Connectile Dysfunction one.


----------



## Ghostwind

Definitely a good game and living up to the hype.


----------



## Dimwhit

Going in to the 4th quarter, I can't believe Chicago is still in it. Indy should be blowing them out right now. Could be an exciting finish.


----------



## Ghostwind

That last interception took the wind out of Chicago's sails.


----------



## John Crichton

And this game is just about over.  Excellent performance by the Colts D.


----------



## Ghostwind

Indy pulled it off. Congratulations to the Colts!


----------



## John Crichton

w00t!

I'm interested in seeing who is going to be MVP.  Probably Manning.  I picked Bob Sanders before the game...


----------



## Dimwhit

John Crichton said:
			
		

> w00t!
> 
> I'm interested in seeing who is going to be MVP.  Probably Manning.  I picked Bob Sanders before the game...



 Since the award wouldn't go to two players (Addai and Rhodes should share it), then Manning will probably get it. Guess we'll see.


----------



## Rodrigo Istalindir

MVP should have been whichever Colt returned the INT for the touchdown.  That was the single most important play of the game, I think.


----------



## Ghostwind

Manning awarded MVP.


----------



## John Crichton

With so many big plays by the whole team, the award typically goes to the QB and rightfully so.


----------



## Dimwhit

John Crichton said:
			
		

> With so many big plays by the whole team, the award typically goes to the QB and rightfully so.



 Yeah, the QB is pretty much the default if there are no other standouts.

And, let's face it, Manning played a hell of a game. He really took control after that early TD. Of course, the Colts D did a hell of a job, too.


----------



## drothgery

Yeah, I thought the MVP had to go to Manning; he had a pretty good game in pure stats, but I didn't see any dominating line play or superlative, LT/Barry Sanders/Walter Payton-esque individual play from the running backs. I saw a defense stacked to avoid getting burned by Peyton to Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Marvin Harrison; Rhodes and Addai ran well (and Addai caught a lot of passes) in part because of fear of Peyton.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> Yeah, I thought the MVP had to go to Manning; he had a pretty good game in pure stats, but I didn't see any dominating line play or superlative, LT/Barry Sanders/Walter Payton-esque individual play from the running backs. I saw a defense stacked to avoid getting burned by Peyton to Reggie Wayne, Dallas Clark, and Marvin Harrison; Rhodes and Addai ran well (and Addai caught a lot of passes) in part because of fear of Peyton.



 Agreed.  Once I saw them pulling the safeties way back on each play I knew that the running game would be open all day and that is bad for a defense.  The Bears D couldn't get off the field which not just tires them out but never let their young QB get into a groove and they paid for it in the 4th quarter with badly thrown picks.


----------



## DaveMage

Only 26 weeks until the next season starts....

 



As for the game, congrats to the Colts.  I wonder if Dungy will retire or come back.  My guess is that he'd come back.

I have to give a failing grade to the advertisements this year.  The only one I really liked was the Bud Light one with the axe-wielding (and later chainsaw-wielding) hitchhiker.


----------



## drothgery

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I have to give a failing grade to the advertisements this year.  The only one I really liked was the Bud Light one with the axe-wielding (and later chainsaw-wielding) hitchhiker.




I've never really understood why Super Bowl commercials are such a big deal; me, I had a novel to read during the commercials, and fired up the PS2 during halftime...


----------



## Gunslinger

drothgery said:
			
		

> I've never really understood why Super Bowl commercials are such a big deal; me, I had a novel to read during the commercials, and fired up the PS2 during halftime...




You missed one of the best half time shows in a while then.  I'm not much of a Prince fan, but he certainly rocked last night.


----------



## kenobi65

drothgery said:
			
		

> I've never really understood why Super Bowl commercials are such a big deal; me, I had a novel to read during the commercials, and fired up the PS2 during halftime...




Well, many of the advertisers use those slots to premiere new (and, they hope, entertaining) spots, knowing that they'll have a huge audience, and knowing that many viewers are specifically watching for the ads (as opposed to choosing the commercial breaks to go to the bathroom).  

Though, the bar was really set by the "1984" spot that premiered the Apple Macintosh, which premiered (and only ever officially aired) on that Super Bowl.


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I have to give a failing grade to the advertisements this year.  The only one I really liked was the Bud Light one with the axe-wielding (and later chainsaw-wielding) hitchhiker.




(Disclosure: I work in advertising, and one of our ads (the Taco Bell "talking lions") was on during the game.)

The ones that stood out to me:
- Bud Light: the axe-murderer, the "rock-paper-scissors", and the Carlos Mencia "English" spots (though the latter felt like a rip-off of "Stripes")
- Snickers (the "man-kiss")
- Career Builder (though I think they were probably like "Dilbert" -- funny if you work in an office, not too funny otherwise)
- Blockbuster ("clicking the mouse")

The one for the sales-lead web site, if they weren't *trying* to be tongue-in-cheek (and I couldn't tell), was just awful.

And, Robert Goulet for Emerald Nuts was just plain weird.


----------



## GlassJaw

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> You missed one of the best half time shows in a while then.  I'm not much of a Prince fan, but he certainly rocked last night.




Prince was awesome.  I definitely agree - one of the best halftimes in a long time.


----------



## Seonaid

Dammit, I was thinking Prince + half-time show = wasted time, so I actually left the room to get some work done. I don't like the half-time shows, and I'm not a Prince fan, so I didn't think I'd be missing anything. Heh, at least I finished that project and got it mailed off today. Sigh.


----------



## John Crichton

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> You missed one of the best half time shows in a while then.  I'm not much of a Prince fan, but he certainly rocked last night.



 I am not a big Prince fan but the man has uber-talent.  I believe he is one of the few people on earth who can actually sing every note on an 88 key piano.

Anywho, I didn't plan on watching him and went on-line but my head turned for a few seconds just to check it out and I ended up watching the whole thing.  As for halftime shows go, he was excellent and actually worth watching.


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> The ones that stood out to me:
> - Bud Light: the axe-murderer, the "rock-paper-scissors", and the Carlos Mencia "English" spots (though the latter felt like a rip-off of "Stripes")



I really liked all those.  But I'm a sucker for those commercials.  



			
				kenobi65 said:
			
		

> - Snickers (the "man-kiss")



That one got a laugh out of me.



			
				kenobi65 said:
			
		

> - Blockbuster ("clicking the mouse")



Everyone is talking about that one.  Cute stuff.



			
				kenobi65 said:
			
		

> And, Robert Goulet for Emerald Nuts was just plain weird.



This one was probably my favorite because if was so over the top but still funny.  

My second favorite was the Coke commercial that ripped of the Grand Theft Auto games and turned it on it's head to make the character happy-go-lucky and ultra-helpful.


----------



## DaveMage

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> (Disclosure: I work in advertising, and one of our ads (the Taco Bell "talking lions") was on during the game.)
> 
> The ones that stood out to me:
> - Bud Light: the axe-murderer, the "rock-paper-scissors", and the Carlos Mencia "English" spots (though the latter felt like a rip-off of "Stripes")
> - Snickers (the "man-kiss")
> - Career Builder (though I think they were probably like "Dilbert" -- funny if you work in an office, not too funny otherwise)
> - Blockbuster ("clicking the mouse")
> 
> The one for the sales-lead web site, if they weren't *trying* to be tongue-in-cheek (and I couldn't tell), was just awful.
> 
> And, Robert Goulet for Emerald Nuts was just plain weird.




The snickers one stood out, but I didn't like it.

The Career Builder ads seemed like a waste of time.  

THe blockbuster one was cute, but didn't hold my attention (although it did hold the attention of my 3 and 5 year olds).    

I remember seeing the Taco Bell one, but don't remember anything else about it.  (Sorry!)

I do look forward to seeing Robert Goulet at my desk this afternoon, though...


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I remember seeing the Taco Bell one, but don't remember anything else about it.  (Sorry!)




Hey; don't worry...you're probably too old to be our target, anyway.


----------



## John Crichton

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Hey; don't worry...you're probably too old to be our target, anyway.



 That was the lions talking, right?

And I was just remembered by my assistant about the Kevin Federline commercial - that was hilarious at the time.


----------



## DaveMage

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Hey; don't worry...you're probably too old to be our target, anyway.





Dang kids!

*shakes fist*


----------



## jonathan swift

I loved the Fed-Ex Ground one about how just because it's name was ground, it wasn't slow.


----------



## kenobi65

John Crichton said:
			
		

> That was the lions talking, right?




Yup.  

Though, when I talked this morning to the guy who heads up the account here, he said his teenaged kids and their friends (who *are* the target) didn't know who Ricardo Montalban was, and so, some of the humor was lost on them.


----------



## kenobi65

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> I loved the Fed-Ex Ground one about how just because it's name was ground, it wasn't slow.




Yeah, that one wasn't bad.  I don't think it's got much repeat value, but the first time was pretty funny.


----------



## John Crichton

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> I loved the Fed-Ex Ground one about how just because it's name was ground, it wasn't slow.



 Agreed, that wasn't bad but the one where the guy doesn't know where China is was better.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> You missed one of the best half time shows in a while then.  I'm not much of a Prince fan, but he certainly rocked last night.




Certainly much better than the Raise-Dead activated Rolling Stones.....


----------



## Seonaid

John Crichton said:
			
		

> [T]he one where the guy doesn't know where China is was better.



Definitely makes me laugh every single time.

As for the lions, I thought it was cute, but I know who Ricardo Montalban is.  Out of curiosity, why are teenagers the target?


----------



## John Crichton

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Definitely makes me laugh every single time.
> 
> As for the lions, I thought it was cute, but I know who Ricardo Montalban is.  Out of curiosity, why are teenagers the target?



 Cuz lions are for kids, silly.  


Or just Matt Millen...  For him to *poop* on!


----------



## kenobi65

Seonaid said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, why are teenagers the target?




Because teenagers (and 20-something guys) are the heaviest consumers of Taco Bell.


----------



## Olaf the Stout

Gunslinger said:
			
		

> You missed one of the best half time shows in a while then.  I'm not much of a Prince fan, but he certainly rocked last night.




I thought his performance of the Foo Fighter's "Best of You" was weak compared to what Dave Grohl could have put out.  But then again I am a Foo fan.

Olaf the Stout


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

Crothian said:
			
		

> Then get ready!!  Go get some beers, chicken wings, steaks, brauts, cheerleaders...whatever you need!!




I'm still waiting for the cheerleaders


----------



## Crothian

Sorry, they wanted to stay here!!


----------



## DaveMage

Crothian said:
			
		

> Sorry, they wanted to stay here!!





It's the size of your....postcount, isn't it?


----------



## DaveMage

In shocking news (well, it's shocking to me), Marty Schottenheimer was fired today as coach of the chargers.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/02/12/schott.fired.ap/index.html

I'm thinking if I'm a potential NFL head coach somewhere, the best job in football was just created.  Can you believe someone is going to inherit a 14-2 team (and a young one at that)?


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> It's the size of your....postcount, isn't it?




It is very impressive


----------



## Crothian

DaveMage said:
			
		

> In shocking news (well, it's shocking to me), Marty Schottenheimer was fired today as coach of the chargers.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/02/12/schott.fired.ap/index.html
> 
> I'm thinking if I'm a potential NFL head coach somewhere, the best job in football was just created.  Can you believe someone is going to inherit a 14-2 team (and a young one at that)?





Shocking to me too!!  I can see Bill Parcle coming out of retirement for this!!


----------



## John Crichton

DaveMage said:
			
		

> In shocking news (well, it's shocking to me), Marty Schottenheimer was fired today as coach of the chargers.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/02/12/schott.fired.ap/index.html
> 
> I'm thinking if I'm a potential NFL head coach somewhere, the best job in football was just created.  Can you believe someone is going to inherit a 14-2 team (and a young one at that)?



Yeah, that is nuts.  If I were Jim Fassel, I'd give AJ Smith a call...


----------



## Darth K'Trava

DaveMage said:
			
		

> It's the size of your....postcount, isn't it?





It's not the size of your postcount but how you use it.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

DaveMage said:
			
		

> In shocking news (well, it's shocking to me), Marty Schottenheimer was fired today as coach of the chargers.
> 
> http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2007/football/nfl/02/12/schott.fired.ap/index.html
> 
> I'm thinking if I'm a potential NFL head coach somewhere, the best job in football was just created.  Can you believe someone is going to inherit a 14-2 team (and a young one at that)?





Usually you fire a coach if the team royally effs up. But just because there's a personnel clash? Not usually.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

The only other ones I can think of were in Dallas (Jerry Jones & Jimmy Johnson) and in San Francisco (Siefert & Mariucci fired despite perrenially being in the playoffs).

And today, we find that Norv Turner gets the San Diego job.  Lucky Bastich!


----------



## DaveMage

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> The only other ones I can think of were in Dallas (Jerry Jones & Jimmy Johnson) and in San Francisco (Siefert & Mariucci fired despite perrenially being in the playoffs).
> 
> And today, we find that Norv Turner gets the San Diego job.  Lucky Bastich!




Norv Turner....

He of the 9-23 record during his last coaching tour...

Oooo-kay.


----------



## Dimwhit

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Norv Turner....
> 
> He of the 9-23 record during his last coaching tour...
> 
> Oooo-kay.



 Yeah, I'm not sure what San Diego was thinking. I've never been impressed with him as a head coach.


----------



## Darth K'Trava

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Norv Turner....
> 
> He of the 9-23 record during his last coaching tour...
> 
> Oooo-kay.





Hmmm.... trading a 14-2 coach (last season) for a 9-23 coach.... makes ya wonder.....


----------



## John Crichton

Put me firmly in the meh camp on this hire.  If I were a Chargers fan, I would be very upset about what has happened during this off-season.

Not that there were lots of people available but I would have hired Jim Fassel.  Turner is a QB coach at best.  Although, the Chargers are loaded and may do well despite his coaching.  Even Barry Switzer has a ring, ya know...  

Seriously, if the old coordinators were still there this may not that big of a deal as Turner could concentrate on developing Rivers and let the coordinators handle the majority of the offense and defense during the games.  This will most likely not be the case with the completely rebuilt staff.

And the Chargers will have a tough schedule next year with their record and first place finish.  Not going to be an easy season.


----------



## Dungannon

It's very simple, Spanos & Smith wanted a yes-man who wouldn't contradict them or try to think for himself.  They found their perfect coach in Turner.


----------



## drothgery

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Put me firmly in the meh camp on this hire.  If I were a Chargers fan, I would be very upset about what has happened during this off-season.




And I am. This was a really, really dumb move. If the Spanos had to fire Marty this late in the off-season, couldn't they have raided someone from the Colts or Bears? I mean, most of the other good candidates already have jobs, but there were a few people busy with that whole Super Bowl thing...


----------



## DaveMage

drothgery said:
			
		

> And I am. This was a really, really dumb move. If the Spanos had to fire Marty this late in the off-season, couldn't they have raided someone from the Colts or Bears? I mean, most of the other good candidates already have jobs, but there were a few people busy with that whole Super Bowl thing...





Well, at least there's no "3-year plan" expectation with this hire.  Turner better win NOW else his tenure should only last 1 year.  I'd say anything short of a playoff appearance should probably get him shown the door instantly.


----------



## John Crichton

drothgery said:
			
		

> And I am. This was a really, really dumb move. If the Spanos had to fire Marty this late in the off-season, couldn't they have raided someone from the Colts or Bears? I mean, most of the other good candidates already have jobs, but there were a few people busy with that whole Super Bowl thing...



 Ugh, sorry man.

As a non-Chargers fan, I never liked Smith, the GM.  His feud with Marty seemed stupid and made him come off as a huge control freak.  Smith made some great trades and was at the helm for some excellent draft decisions but I have to question his choices with the coaching staff mishaps.


----------



## BOZ

man, please tell me i'm hallucinating.  please tell me the bears did not trade Thomas Jones for a draft pick.


----------



## Dungannon

BOZ said:
			
		

> man, please tell me i'm hallucinating.  please tell me the bears did not trade Thomas Jones for a draft pick.



Nope, they traded Thomas Jones _and a draft pick_ for a draft pick.


----------



## John Crichton

Yeah, they moved up about 30 spots in the 2nd round.  S'ok.  Running backs are fairly easy to find and they still have the other back.


----------



## drothgery

BOZ said:
			
		

> man, please tell me i'm hallucinating.  please tell me the bears did not trade Thomas Jones for a draft pick.




Now if the Bears keep making silly mistakes in the offseason, and there's a bit of regression to the mean, the Pack just might have a shot next year...


----------



## kenobi65

drothgery said:
			
		

> Now if the Bears keep making silly mistakes in the offseason, and there's a bit of regression to the mean, the Pack just might have a shot next year...




:happy dance:

Lessee...Jerry Angelo's off-season to-do list:

1) Get rid of co-ordinator of one of league's best defenses.  Check.
2) Trade lead running back, get not-so-much from other team for him.  Check.
3) Lose your quarterbacks coach, forcing your struggling quarterback to adapt to a new one (who, BTW, has never been a "full" quarterbacks coach in the NFL).  Check.
4) Royally hack off one of your best players by putting the franchise tag on him, leading to him stating he never wants to play for the Bears again.  Check.
5) Prosecutors pushing for jail time for your troubled defensive tackle.  Check.

Yup, all the pieces are in place for them to go back to the big game.


----------



## BOZ

well, hopefully the Bears will make it back to the superbowl in 2028 - we'll make it an every-21-years tradition.


----------



## DaveMage

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> :happy dance:
> 
> Lessee...Jerry Angelo's off-season to-do list:
> 
> 1) Get rid of co-ordinator of one of league's best defenses.  Check.
> 2) Trade lead running back, get not-so-much from other team for him.  Check.
> 3) Lose your quarterbacks coach, forcing your struggling quarterback to adapt to a new one (who, BTW, has never been a "full" quarterbacks coach in the NFL).  Check.
> 4) Royally hack off one of your best players by putting the franchise tag on him, leading to him stating he never wants to play for the Bears again.  Check.
> 5) Prosecutors pushing for jail time for your troubled defensive tackle.  Check.
> 
> Yup, all the pieces are in place for them to go back to the big game.





Heh.

I have no sympathy on #4 though.  No player should complain about the franchise tag since their own union negotiated for it.  Players had an opportunity last year to change the terms of the agreement and chose to leave in the franchise tag.  Shut up and play!


----------



## kenobi65

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I have no sympathy on #4 though.  No player should complain about the franchise tag since their own union negotiated for it.  Players had an opportunity last year to change the terms of the agreement and chose to leave in the franchise tag.  Shut up and play!




I don't disagree with you on that, Dave; why anyone who's going to get $7 million feels the need to pout about it is beyond me (though, he's probably looking at the contract that Adalius Thomas just signed with New England, including a signing bonus of something like $18 million, and having contract envy).

But, the fact remains that they appear to have burned a bridge with Briggs, and even if he does "shut up and play" this year, it would seem, based on his current rhetoric, that he'd have no interest in signing a longer contract with the Bears after 2007.


----------



## DaveMage

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> I don't disagree with you on that, Dave; why anyone who's going to get $7 million feels the need to pout about it is beyond me (though, he's probably looking at the contract that Adalius Thomas just signed with New England, including a signing bonus of something like $18 million, and having contract envy).
> 
> But, the fact remains that they appear to have burned a bridge with Briggs, and even if he does "shut up and play" this year, it would seem, based on his current rhetoric, that he'd have no interest in signing a longer contract with the Bears after 2007.




It just amazes me how many players whine about it when, not only did they negotiate for it, but the salary is nice.  Also, it's only for one year.  Granted, a lot can happen in a year, but if you actually *perform* during the year, you'll get an even larger payday the next year (since you're guaranteed at least a 20% raise the following year if they franchise you again).


----------

