# Does anyone besides me watch Japanese animation?



## Enchantress (Nov 8, 2002)

One of my fav. things to do (besides D&D) is watch/collest/talk about anime. The only problem is that there is no one to talk about it to!!!! Is there anyone out there who is just as weird as I am, and likes anime?!


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## Tsyr (Nov 8, 2002)

Hey, I'm this boards Anime Mascot 

Well, no one has apointed me the title, but it's vacant to my knowledge, so...


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## Enchantress (Nov 8, 2002)

Well then you've got some competition! If anyone is deserving of being this boards official anime mascot it's me!!!!!!!


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 8, 2002)

i'm not anywhere near 'mascot' status  , but i'm also a fan

in fact, in several different threads, i've been in discussions about using some anime stories as the foundation for a campaign setting, and i've highly recommended Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust to someone who wanted to introduce a friend to anime...


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## CrusaderX (Nov 8, 2002)

Most of my current anime viewing comes from Cartoon Network, where I really dig Cowboy Bebop and Inuyasha.

Ninja Scroll is insanely great, too.

What's your favorite anime, Enchantress?


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## Deedlit (Nov 8, 2002)

I am a big fan of anime, especially Inu-Yasha, Record of Lodoss War, and Digimon Adventure(Wrote a 28,000 word fanfic), though I've seen many others as well.  You might want to check out the IC board for Heroes of the Worlds(A few anime characters show up) fight club(I can only remember Leomon, Meowth, and Dratini off the top of my head, but I think there are more), and conversions board(Lodoss d20!) for anime-related stuff here.


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## Ranger REG (Nov 8, 2002)

Depends on which anime you're talking about.

With the exception of _Robotech,_ I'm not a big fan of voice-dubbed anime. Personally, it ruins the ambience of anime when you remove the original voice-overs (mainly Japanese) and replaced them with translated English speech. It's better to enjoy anime with English subtitles.


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## Sulimo (Nov 8, 2002)

Not alot. Now if I could get my hands on more anime that was set in the past (like Ninja Scroll) rather than the future I'd probably see more.

Having rentals stores that stocked more anime would help too.


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## Corinth (Nov 8, 2002)

I believe that I'm the resident Macross and Gundam fanatic, but I dig a wide range of anime.


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## LrdApoc (Nov 9, 2002)

I've been known to be an anime fanatic in the past.. heck I even bought Blood based on the artwork.. bad choice.. baaad choice..


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 9, 2002)

hmmm...anime _bad choices_...how about

1) Ninja Resurrection - if you liked Ninja Scroll, don't ever, ever, _ever_ watch this one

2) Berserk - maybe, maybe not (only saw the first two episodes)

3) Gasaraki - what the hell were they thinking?

4) Angel Cop - why did i buy this series? Why, God, WHY?!

5) Grave of the Fireflys - *warning* do not watch if taking anti-depressants

6) Blood - great animation, but they forgot the story...  


i'm sure there are more, but i'm trying hard to forget


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## LrdApoc (Nov 9, 2002)

I'd have to agree with some and disagree with others you listed.

Agree: 1,4,6
Disagree 2,3,5

Berserk is a good story, just takes some warm up.. the whole flash back aspect throws a lot of people.

Gasaraki: Doesn't really get interesting until the 3rd or fourth disk.. especially if you're not a fan of fuedal japan or Noh culture.

Grave of the fireflies: I'm torn on this.. possibly one of the most realistic anime's, however in this case that's the negative as well as the positive. Good storytelling, just rough subject matter.


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 9, 2002)

like i said, 'Berserk - maybe, maybe not' and the same with Gasaraki. the first couple of episodes are really confusing, but i haven't seen any more, so i don't know better

and you _have_ to admit, when you watched the first Gasaraki disk you had NO IDEA what was going on!


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## LrdApoc (Nov 9, 2002)

true.. I think after the 2nd I still didn't. It took some research and watching a few more episodes to get an idea. Though I'm into 'thinking' anime.. like Serial Experiments Lain as much as some of the more mindless anime.

Still my favorites have to be Cowboy Beebop, Gundam (all series except G (read Dragonsball) gundam) and Macross.


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 9, 2002)

i have to agree on Bebop, but i've never really watched the other two...

i'd also give thumbs-up to Trigun and Lodoss War (D&D anime!)


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## LrdApoc (Nov 9, 2002)

You've seen Macross.. though it was rewritten.. Robotech:Macross Saga.. Veritechs.. Rick Hunter.. etc.

I would add Tri-Gun except for the ending.. a bit of a letdown.

After watching the second lodoss war series I'm scarred..

'Welcome to Lodoss Island!!' uhgg.


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 9, 2002)

yes, i meant _the first series_ of Lodoss, not chibi madness  


Puh - Puh - Puh - Parn!   Puh - Puh - Puh - Parn!


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## Enchantress (Nov 9, 2002)

Phew! Sorry it took me so long to get back to the topic that I actually started. In answer to crusaderx's question of what type of anime I like, (I would post the original quote, but I'm not smart enough to have figured out how yet) a small list of them would be; 3x3 Eyes, Gundam Wing, Escaflowne, ( strongly recomend this one if you like gundams and fantasy. But if you have a strong sense of religion, be warned that tarot cards play a big part in this series) Bubblegum Crisis, ( I know, stupid name) Vampire Princess Miyu, Tenchi Muyo, Cowboy Bebop, Outlaw Star, Slayers, (are you getting bored yet?) Oh, my Goddess, Blue Seed,  and Dragoon, (not for the kiddies!) Did I actually say that my list was short?!?!?!?! Now can you guys see why I'm single? *Sigh* If none of you fell asleep drooling on your computers I'd be happy to discuss my mental issues.


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## Chun-tzu (Nov 9, 2002)

I can't continue reading this thread without pimping some of my own favorite stuff.

I'm going with Kareshi Kanojo no Jijou (His and Her Circumstances), or Kare Kano for short. It's by Studio Gainax and the guy who created Neon Genesis Evangelion. The characters are as wonderfully complex and messed up as Shinji, Rei, and Asuka from Evangelion, but the series is all about their relationship. I like a ton of martial arts and mecha and humor anime series, but sometimes you need a little more substance.

So what's your favorite underrated anime series, and why?


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## LrdApoc (Nov 9, 2002)

I've seen every one of those with the exception of Dragoon..

A fine list indeed!


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## Enchantress (Nov 9, 2002)

Chun-tzu, describe underrated.


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## Chun-tzu (Nov 10, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *Chun-tzu, describe underrated. *




I mean, a series that you think more people should watch. There are lots of good anime series that are well known, and some are not, and I'm always keeping an eye out for good stuff that I haven't heard about.


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 10, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> * (I would post the original quote, but I'm not smart enough to have figured out how yet)  *



don't worry about it! all you have to do is go to the post you want to quote, and hit the 'quote' button in the bottom right-hand part of that post. that will bring up a reply screen with the post you've quoted already in it. then you can answer the questions directly

(you can also trim the post by erasing the stuff you don't need, but leave everything in the [  ] alone or it won't look right )


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## Kilmore (Nov 11, 2002)

My campaign gets much of it's life from the Slayers anime.  I am MOST eagerly anticipating the Guardians of Order Slayers D20 Guide next year.

Deedlit:  I shook Ryo Mizuno's hand in Chicago a couple of years ago.  Neener neener.


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## RangerWickett (Nov 11, 2002)

Yay, I get to be a snooty artsy anime fan and look down my nose at those of you who only watch Cartoon Network stuff, DBZ, and Macross.  I personally own no anime, but my friends have thousands of episodes among them.  Yes, Bebop is good, very good, but how many people here have seen Initial D?  Hikaru no Go?  Prince of Tennis?

And you can't forget the hentai.  I have been told on good authority that nothing is funnier than a good hentai comedy.  Indeed, it's amazing how much classier pornography seems when it's animated.  In real life, it's smutty, but in animated format, you're too embarrassed to take it literally.  

It's amazing how much going to www.animemusicvideos.org helps expand one's anime repetoire.  Anyway, apologies for the snootiness, but IMHO, saying that Macross is your greatest anime experience is like saying Lost in Space was the best sci-fi.


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## Tsyr (Nov 11, 2002)

Hikaru no Go is one of the best anime, IMO. Prince of Tennis is good, but not great... It's not in my top 10, at any rate.

The entire Sekai no Monshou/Sekai no Senki series (Crest of the Stars, etc) is underated IMO. Some others that I would consider underated are Legend of Basara, Utena (A lot of people know of Utena... few have watched it... fewer liked/understood it.), Angel Sanctuary... There are others, those are just some of the ones I can think of offhand.

Mind you, I think some anime can be over-rated too. Trigun is FAR overrated, IMO, and Cowboy Bebop, while great, is not the next best thing to sliced bread, as some people make it out to be. Dragonball Z is FAR over-rated, but not by anyone who's opinion on anime I truely value. 

What's actualy amazingly funny is some of the anime meant for a slightly younger audience... Some of it is just so... I dunno... enthusiastic?... I guess, that I can't help but love it. Cardcaptor Sakura, Magical Nyan Nyan Taruto, Tiny Snow Fairy: Sugar, etc. 

Hentai CAN potentialy be funny, but far to much of it is... just disturbing. Alot of the halfway stuff can be pretty funny, though... Strange Love, for example. Not hentai, but there is nudity and plenty of inference to (And a few cases of) sex. Same with Maze (The OAV, that is... the series is a bit tamer).


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## Mr Fidgit (Nov 11, 2002)

is Prince of Tennis a Lupin series?


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## WizarDru (Nov 12, 2002)

No because then it would be interesting to me. 


I've been into anime for a few decades now, so I think I qualify.  I started watching anime with Captain Harlock and Cyborg 009.  God, I'm old.


Anywho, Beserk is one of the most intelligently written anime you'll come across, as well as one of the most graphically violent.  WORD OF WARNING: THE ANIME FINISHES AT A *VERY VERY BAD POINT*.  I can't describe to you how damaging the end of the series is, if you're not prepared for it.  Luckily, the manga continues on far after the anime.  Hope still holds for a second anime series, which we refer to as 'How Gats got the DragonSlayer, and got his groove back'. 

Most recent enjoyments for me have been Kare Kano (thank you Otakon), Hellsing, Vandread (both stages), Great Teacher Onizuka and Blue Gender.  Getter Robo is fun in a silly way, even though it tries to be Giant Robo, and kinda fails, IMHO.  Magical Shopping District Abenobashi is a great parody series from Gainax, if somewhat uneven and a little too heavy on the eetchi jokes for me.  GTO was, in particular, a series I was sure I wouldn't like...but turns out I was very wrong.  It steadily grows on you.  Kare Kano is at turns sweet and romantic or madcap and cynical.  And sometimes it's painfully real.

As to the issue of subbed versus dubbed: in some cases yes, other cases no.  I prefer dubbed merely because traditionally, dubbed voice acting was considered an afterthought.  These days, quality voice acting is appearing.  I actually prefer the english Big O cast, for example.  The voice acting on the dubbed version of Bebop is quite good, as is Trigun, Hellsing and a lot of other more recent dubs.  Pioneer is particularly good.

And of course, Spirited Away is, like most Miyazaki films, not just a great anime...it's one of the great movies, period.


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## frankthedm (Nov 12, 2002)

My Favorite anime is Urusei Yatsura. Just such a _Darling_ anime. You will get a real charge out of it.

www.animeigo.com for tapes and DVD

http://www.furinkan.com/tomobiki/uy/ GREAT UY site


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## Enchantress (Nov 12, 2002)

Call ne an idiot, (which I am,) but I still can't figure out how to do the quotes! I'll have to als my friend to help me, but you gave great instructions anyway Mr Fidget! And finally I don't think I know of any underrated anime. And I also think that alot of the childrens anime is okay too. For instance; the new show Yu Gi Oh! that my little bro. is currently into is a pretty good anime, and there is a really fun card game out to go with it too. I used to be a big fan of digimon when I was younger, and I still loved Cardcaptures Sakura. However, pokemon I can tolerate, though I find it a little over exuberant at times. BUT, the one anime that I can NOT satnd is...DBZ. HATE that show with a PASSION!!!! 
*Sorry to all ya DBZ fans out there!! Feel free to flame on me if ya want.*


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## Mark (Nov 12, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *I still can't figure out how to do the quotes! *




If quoting someone in the thread, click on the button directly below and to the right of their post as in the image below and delete the text that you do not wish to quote, leaving what you consider quotable.  Hope that helps.


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## jdavis (Nov 12, 2002)

I've got a closet full of Anime on VHS (over 100 tapes). I don't keep up with it as much as I used to, as is obvious by the fact all my anime is on VHS, although I pretty much watch anything on cartoon network, I'm a glutton for punishment I guess (not all Anime is created equal). 
Has anyone seen the new Evangelion movie? I heard it was much better than the last episode of the series.


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## Enchantress (Nov 13, 2002)

Mark said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If quoting someone in the thread, click on the button directly below and to the right of their post as in the image below and delete the text that you do not wish to quote, leaving what you consider quotable.  Hope that helps.  *






Sure hope this works, and if it does, I'll worship you 4 ever Mark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


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## Enchantress (Nov 13, 2002)

YAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!! It worked!!!!!!


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## WizarDru (Nov 13, 2002)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *I've got a closet full of Anime on VHS (over 100 tapes). I don't keep up with it as much as I used to, as is obvious by the fact all my anime is on VHS, although I pretty much watch anything on cartoon network, I'm a glutton for punishment I guess (not all Anime is created equal).
> Has anyone seen the new Evangelion movie? I heard it was much better than the last episode of the series. *




Yeah, VHS is being phased out, with some releases ONLY coming out on DVD at this point.  It just makes sense from a technology standpoint, and from an economic one.  DVDs don't cost that much more to make the VHS tapes, can have BOTH dubbed and subtitled version on one release, and are smaller/lighter, which makes for reduced shipping, stocking and packaging costs.

I haven't actually watched the two Evangelion post-series releases (one of which, I think, is a reworking of the final three episodes, and the other the capstone to the series).  Essentially, they are the producers kicking you between the legs, if friends are to be believed.  They were apparently somewhat irritated by fan reactions to the final three episodes to the series.

My anime tastes have changed somewhat over time, but not too dramatically.  The nature of anime releases has also changed pretty significantly.  The dramatic shortening of series' length is a new wrinkle that I don't mind, if the quality is maintained.  The sophistication of some shows has dramatically deepened, while some shows are just rehashes of 30 year old material (and I don't mean redux shows like Gatchman here, I'm talking soulless copycat shows, for which anime is duly famous).  An interesting recent trend are anime shows that deconstruct...anime shows.  Nadesico, for example, while not always satisfying as a story, was terrific as parody of anime tropes and conventions.


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## Tsyr (Nov 13, 2002)

I have mixed feelings about the shortening of anime series...

On one hand, a lot of anime series really needed to be shortened. There were some collossol ones that didn't need to be near as big as they were. DBZ comes to mind...

On the other hand, there are some anime that you really can't shorten much without ruining it... Ranma (Because it's a very episodic show, this is questionable... basicly most of the "Core" ranma story was told after season 2... That is to say, the main characters were all introduced and fleshed out... But that would be like canceling Star Trek The Next Generation after season 1)... Hana Yori Dango would have been ruined if you tried to shorten it...

And there are some more recent examples of longer anime, of course, it's not totaly a thing of the past... Inu Yasha, Slam Dunk, Hikaru No Go, One Peice, Seikai no Senki, Vandread... (Ok, those last two were technicly multiple series I suppose, but they are so inter-connected that you can't really seperate them.). 

Now, the recent boom of 13 episode series (Hellsing, for example), I'm not so sure about... It works for some animes, but if they try to apply that format too universaly, you're going to have a lot of anime that feel really rushed.

Of course, a lot of it depends on the source of the anime... If it comes from a manga, you have to at least try to fit most of the major parts in, or you wind up with another X: The Movie fiasco... Which tends to dictate how long the anime is. Inu Yasha is a good recent example of that.


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## WizarDru (Nov 13, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *On one hand, a lot of anime series really needed to be shortened. There were some collossol ones that didn't need to be near as big as they were. DBZ comes to mind...*





Well, the thing to keep in mind with DB/DBZ/St. Seiya and their ilk is that the anime covered much more ground than the manga, time-wise.  Dialogue is much slower in anime than manga, but fight scenes (which DBZ is centered around) take far less time...the solution the animators devised (remembering how successful the franchise was)?  Filler episodes and padding.  This was especially a problem when the manga was still in production, and the anime would catch up to it, as often happened with St. Seiya and DBZ.  



> *On the other hand, there are some anime that you really can't shorten much without ruining it... Ranma (Because it's a very episodic show, this is questionable... basicly most of the "Core" ranma story was told after season 2...*




Ranma is like Urusei Yatsura, in that the main way the plot changes is that extra characters are added.  Eventually you have a gargantuan cast, and most plots boil down to 'add event X, and show how everyone reacts'.  There's nothing wrong with that, but Ranma didn't really have a central story so much as a central relationship, and it's resolution was the only real issue.  This is markedly different from something like, say, Blue Gender, where it's pretty obvious the story is headed somewhere, and that lots of changes occur with the characters.



> *Now, the recent boom of 13 episode series (Hellsing, for example), I'm not so sure about... It works for some animes, but if they try to apply that format too universaly, you're going to have a lot of anime that feel really rushed.*




Agreed.  If shows are forced into a certain length, it can really affect their quality.  That said, I think this is a combination of budget constraints and consumer demand.  Further, shows like Big O, Vandread and others are using the 13-episode format as more like a season the way the BBC does.  If the show is successful enough, it gets another season.  If it doesn't, then they had a reasonable run.  The animation quality certainly seems to be higher on the 13-run series that I've seen.  However, having come in on the boat a long time ago, I'm not as tied up with the visuals as some fans are.  Some of today's fans just refuse to watch anime from before the 90s, for this very reason.  Which is a big loss for them, but to each his own.


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## DarkSoldier (Nov 13, 2002)

I'm a big fan, but I don't own a lot of material. My collection is as follows (all dubbed and on VHS, unfortunately):

MD Geist Director's Cut
MD Geist II: Death Force
Wrath of the Ninja: the Yotoden Movie
Slayers vol.1 (first 4 episodes)
Project A-ko Versus Battle Vol.1: Grey Side
Fatal Fury: the Motion Picture
Street Fighter II (not Alpha, not V; the original)
Dragonball Z: the History of Trunks (Xmas gift from fanboy cousin)
Mobile Suit Gundam: the 08th MS Team (subtitled! First 3 eps)

I've seen tons of others; the list is extensive, containing good and bad (JoJo's Bizarre Adventure and Blood: the Last Vampire, for example).

The Americanized stuff is garbage of the worst calibre; I strongly recommend that you avoid anything playing on TV (except Gundam Wing, since that's relatively uncut, but it's still fodder for fanboys and yaoi-deprived fangirls).

Find stuff that is not in the mainstream yet: the classic Universal Century Mobile Suit Gundam stuff, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and the Guyver, to name a few. The stuff that American studios haven't had a chance to butcher yet is the good stuff. Steer clear of anything on kids' TV.

There is a group of fans I suggest you avoid: the fanboys and fangirls. These people are the drooling, screaming yutzes with 5-second attention spans, and make websites that say "Dragon Ball Z rox!" The only exposure to anime these people get is stuff on Cartoon Network, FOX, and YTV. They watch the heavily censored, stupified, and Americanized anime and think that's how it is. Oh, how I would like to sit them down and show them raw Dragonball, so they can see just how mangled their "favurit cartoon" is.

I'll talk about almost any genre, but my knowledge of anime is extremely limited compared to the vast knowledge of some people, like John of AnimeNation's Ask John column. Y'know, I have't checked that column in ages! I should go see what's been added!


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## Tsyr (Nov 13, 2002)

Actualy, a lot of the stuff on mainstream TV is quite good, if you watch something other than what they show on TV, which tends to be edited... Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne, Inu Yasha, Gundam Wing/08th MS/original, Tenchi... all good animes. 

Avoid G-Gundam at all costs...


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## DarkSoldier (Nov 14, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Actualy, a lot of the stuff on mainstream TV is quite good, if you watch something other than what they show on TV, which tends to be edited... Cowboy Bebop, Escaflowne, Inu Yasha, Gundam Wing/08th MS/original, Tenchi... all good animes.
> 
> Avoid G-Gundam at all costs... *




I don't get Cartoon Network, so my knowledge of cable anime is limited to FOX and YTV (whose idea was it to make a Kirby anime?).

Mobile Fighter G Gundam is pretty bad, from what I gather.

www.arcticnightfall.com/ has sections with lots of information and pictures on some good series; Ninja Scroll (which _does not_ have a sequel called Ninja Resurrection), Rurouni Kenshin (avoid "Samurai X" at all costs!), Berserk, and Vampire Hunter D all have relatively complete sections.

Another of my favourite sites is www.anipike.com/, the Anime Web Turnpike. If you're an anime fan and don't know about this site, you aren't a real fan.


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## WizarDru (Nov 14, 2002)

DarkSoldier said:
			
		

> *There is a group of fans I suggest you avoid: the fanboys and fangirls. These people are the drooling, screaming yutzes with 5-second attention spans, and make websites that say "Dragon Ball Z rox!" The only exposure to anime these people get is stuff on Cartoon Network, FOX, and YTV. They watch the heavily censored, stupified, and Americanized anime and think that's how it is. Oh, how I would like to sit them down and show them raw Dragonball, so they can see just how mangled their "favurit cartoon" is.*




I think you've been going to wrong places for anime fans, if this is your general impression of them.  Try going to a well-organized convention, like Otakon.  I think you'd be surpised at the kinds of people and anime you might see there.


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## DarkSoldier (Nov 14, 2002)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *I think you've been going to wrong places for anime fans, if this is your general impression of them.  Try going to a well-organized convention, like Otakon.  I think you'd be surpised at the kinds of people and anime you might see there. *



Well, if I could, I'd go to a con (I'm allegedly going to Sakuracon next April) and meet with the intelligent fans.

Those fanboys/girls, I meant to say that they're usually the newbies, the ones who don't know the real story about their favourite shows, and accept what they see as gospel. I'm sad to say that I was like that for a time.


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## Enchantress (Nov 14, 2002)

DarkSoldier said:
			
		

> [B
> The Americanized stuff is garbage of the worst calibre; I strongly recommend that you avoid anything playing on TV (except Gundam Wing, since that's relatively uncut, but it's still fodder for fanboys and yaoi-deprived fangirls).
> 
> Find stuff that is not in the mainstream yet: the classic Universal Century Mobile Suit Gundam stuff, JoJo's Bizarre Adventure, and the Guyver, to name a few. The stuff that American studios haven't had a chance to butcher yet is the good stuff. Steer clear of anything on kids' TV.
> ...





Okay, I am trying my HARDEST to not find out where you live and come after you with a chansaw. I do NOT (I repeat) do NOT drool, scream, have a five second attention span, like DBZ, or watch heavily censored, stupified, and Americanized anime and think that's how it is!!!!!! 
Plus, Gundam Wing was the first anime I ever watched, which is what got me hooked, which is why I wrote this thread, which is why I am even HAVING this conversation!!!!!
*Takes a deep breath before continuing*
And whether I am yaoi-deprived is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!!


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## jdavis (Nov 14, 2002)

It's sort of funny but the first Anime I ever saw was Legend of the Overfiend, if you don't know what it is count yourself lucky, If you have seen it then I am terribly sorry, it's the kind of movie that just makes you feel dirty when it's over. After that we watched Fist of the North Star and the Original Vampire Hunter D, then I was hooked. Unfortunantely I was also a starving college student, so instead of buying stuff I started copying everything I could get my hands on ( I have over 100 hours of copied stuff). When I actually had money I bought everything that came down the pike, then DVD hit and I realized everything I owned was out of date with modern technology. Now I get most of my Anime from Cartoon Network, remember there is a big difference between Toonami and Adult Swim, the good stuff comes on late. As far as G Gundam goes I watched every stinking episode and they all burned their way into my skull, Zoids...yea caught them all, DBZ seen them all, for that matter if they showed it I watched it, even if it sucked and I knew it, I used to get up early on Saturdays and watch Digimon on Fox, Heck I even own the first season of Pokemon (Ok it's my 6 year old daughters but I watched every stinking one with her 50 odd times.) Hamtaro....yea I taped those. In other words it's all a big addictive trap, man American cartoons just give me a headache anymore but I'll sit through the worst Japan has to offer cartoon wise. Do they have a Anime adiction help line? Oh and thanks to this I'm probably going to head to the video store next pay check, cause you guys mentioned some stuff I have never heard of.


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## Chun-tzu (Nov 14, 2002)

Enchantress, I don't think DarkSoldier meant anything personal by his post, and I don't think it was aimed at you at all. For example, for one thing he actually says that he likes Gundam Wing (that's the one televised show that he does like), and that he dislikes Dragonball Z (like you, although you're both wrong, because it's a good action show, just dreadfully long fights most of the time).


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## Aaron L (Nov 14, 2002)

I definitely don't watch anime.


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## Mark (Nov 14, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *Sure hope this works, and if it does, I'll worship you 4 ever Mark!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
> *




_*...fingers crossed...*_



			
				Enchantress said:
			
		

> *YAAAAAAAYYYYYY!!!!!!! It worked!!!!!!  *




WooT!  But I do not wish for you to worship me.  I only ask that you laugh at some (not all) of my jokes...


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## Mark (Nov 14, 2002)

Oopsie, Enchantress...


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## Black Omega (Nov 14, 2002)

Favorite anime is easy to list.  Bubble Gum Crisis is right up there because it got me hooked on anime.  In a game at the time I was running a character called Pristine (Pris for short), bad temper, road a motorcycle, girl with attitude who sang in a band.  Some friends into anime also in the game said I had to see BGC, for obvious reasons.

I'm also a fan of Kotetsu, Phantom Quest Corp., El Hazard, the OAV's are excellent.  For stuff you might not have seen yet, Read or Die is great, light hearted adventure coming to the US soon.  Boogiepop Phantom I'm..still trying to decide.  It's one of very few series to actuyally creep me out at times.  Spirited Away was excellent.  Excel Saga was not to my taste at all but I know people who loved it.

Personally, I'm a big fan of DBZ.  It has drawbacks.  Goku v. Frieza took -way- too long.  the dubbing is not only verybad at times, but actually messes up the show (today's show, Wed  the 13th, is a great example of this).  It's also very watered down, everytime Vegita says 'Darn it!" I wince.  The power levels reach the point of being silly, but it's not as bad if you just keep thinking "It's a super hero anime, not a martial arts anime."

On the plus side it does things other long running anime rarely bother with.  Characters age, get older, get married, have kids, their kids grow up, etc.  Bulma starts out around 15 and by the end of DBZ she's in her 30's and looks it.  Charactes develop and change but it often takes time.  Vegita took a good 170 eps to grow up from a bad guy to a good guy.

DBZ is hardly perfect, but it's great fun.


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## Tsyr (Nov 14, 2002)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> *Favorite anime is easy to list.  Bubble Gum Crisis is right up there because it got me hooked on anime.  In a game at the time I was running a character called Pristine (Pris for short), bad temper, road a motorcycle, girl with attitude who sang in a band.  Some friends into anime also in the game said I had to see BGC, for obvious reasons.
> 
> I'm also a fan of Kotetsu, Phantom Quest Corp., El Hazard, the OAV's are excellent.  For stuff you might not have seen yet, Read or Die is great, light hearted adventure coming to the US soon.  Boogiepop Phantom I'm..still trying to decide.  It's one of very few series to actuyally creep me out at times.  Spirited Away was excellent.  Excel Saga was not to my taste at all but I know people who loved it.
> 
> ...




I've found that most peoples "entry anime" also tends to stay on their list of favorites. Strangely, I don't even remember what mine was. 

My biggest single problem with DBZ is the pacing sucks. Far too much time is spent flexing, groaning, glaring, posing, and powering up... If you cut out all the repeated frames in the series, you could probably fit the entire series into half as many episodes as it is now.

It's also far too predictable... Current hero finds new threat. New threat kicks current hero's ass for a while. Current hero goes off and trains, or figures out his own inner flaw. Current hero comes back and saves the day. Massive damage to surrounding landscape. Possible deaths, never permanent. It never bloody changes. 

Actualy, I kinda like the original Dragonball. That show has a charm to it that is completely lost in DBZ.


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## jdavis (Nov 14, 2002)

As far as Dragonball goes, they must be doing something right, between dragonball, DBZ and Dragonball GT (yet to be released in Ameriaca) there are 500+ episodes and a dozen or so movies or OVA's. By comparison the Simpsons are in their 14th season and are up to episode 304. Not that this makes Dragonball great or anything but It's hard to say a show with that kind of staying power sucks. The americanized cartoon network episodes don't do it any favors, but I doubt anybody posting here would be in the target audience they are gunning for, I've talked to several ten to twelve year olds who think it is the best thing they have ever seen.


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## Black Omega (Nov 14, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I've found that most peoples "entry anime" also tends to stay on their list of favorites. Strangely, I don't even remember what mine was. *



Technically, mine probably would have been G-Force, but I was a kid at the time and had no idea there was such a thing as anime.  Years later I was quite surprised to find the Science Ninja Force was actually trying to kill the bad guy.

*



			My biggest single problem with DBZ is the pacing sucks. Far too much time is spent flexing, groaning, glaring, posing, and powering up... If you cut out all the repeated frames in the series, you could probably fit the entire series into half as many episodes as it is now.
		
Click to expand...


*Pacing is an issue at times.  Personally, I liked that both Vegita and Goku took five eps or so to recover from their first major battle.  But at times fights drag or are obviously filler.   Othertimes the point of the fight is not so obvious but is there.  Vegito's battle with Majin Buu pretty much went as planned from begining to end, though the dubbing messed that up.

*



			It's also far too predictable... Current hero finds new threat. New threat kicks current hero's ass for a while. Current hero goes off and trains, or figures out his own inner flaw. Current hero comes back and saves the day. Massive damage to surrounding landscape. Possible deaths, never permanent. It never bloody changes.
		
Click to expand...


*I think you are thinking Black Belt Theatre.  Otherwise, really, name one time this formula was used?  Goku trained a good long time for the battle with Napa and Vegita but he never fought them before that battle.  Goku never fought Frieza, left and went to train, came back and kicked butt.  It was just an overly long fight.  Similarly in Cell Saga Goku trained with Gohan, Vegita with Trunks but neither of them fought Cell before that training as far as I can recall.  Ok, I take it back.  A variation of that formula was used once, when Gotenks got his butt kicked by Majin Buu and went off to train but that had nothing to do with beating internal flaws.  Gotenks never did overcome his ego.

As for possible deaths, never permanant.  Sounds a bit like DnD, neh?  Much like a general DnD world,  you can bring someone dead back to life and it's common enough it's assumed.  Krillin more than once says "Oh well, if I get killed you can bring me back."  Very DnD like and quite consistent with the world.  the dragonballs are a dues ex machina (badly spelled) and as that are well used at times and badly used other times.

*



			Actualy, I kinda like the original Dragonball. That show has a charm to it that is completely lost in DBZ.
		
Click to expand...


*For most of DB the focus was on comedy with some action.  That shifted more toward action with some comedy and it was at that point DB and then DBZ became really successful.  Amusing, the original DB had at least one scene (obviously cut for the US release) that is classified as hentai now.


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## Enchantress (Nov 15, 2002)

Mark said:
			
		

> *
> 
> *...fingers crossed...*
> 
> ...




You're going to have to warn me when you're about to make a joke so that I can call upon my superhero acting skills.

P.S. About the worshiping part....we're not going back to the yaoi-deprived girls topic are we?

*...fingers crossed...*


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## WizarDru (Nov 15, 2002)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> *I think you are thinking Black Belt Theatre.  Otherwise, really, name one time this formula was used?*




He mis-stated the formula.  

1. Villains arrive
2. Z-fighters engage
3. Minor tagouts occur
4. Big baddie kills and or beats up z-fighters
5. Goku arrives late, to much rejoicing
6. Goku schools ignornant, arrogant villains
7. Lead villain redoubles efforts, nearly killing Goku
8. Goku defeats villain at last second, and realizes more powerful villain is coming
9. Goku goes to heal or die, effectively removing him from fighting roster
10. z-fighters train so they will be strong enough to lose to more powerful villains, and to restore Goku or buy him time
11. Cycle Restarts

The essential formula changes after the first three sagas or so, but by then, only the die-hards are watching, anyways.  I like DBZ, but I don't pretend it to be anything other than harmless superhero chopsocky. 


*



			As for possible deaths, never permanant.  Sounds a bit like DnD, neh?  Much like a general DnD world,  you can bring someone dead back to life and it's common enough it's assumed.  Krillin more than once says "Oh well, if I get killed you can bring me back."  Very DnD like and quite consistent with the world.  the dragonballs are a dues ex machina (badly spelled) and as that are well used at times and badly used other times.
		
Click to expand...


*
Well, originally death WAS permanent.  Then it was permanent, except you can be resurrected ONCE by the dragonballs.  Then it was once for each SET of Dragonballs.  And so on.  That's why some fights were scary for the z-fighters....they'd already been resurrected, and the original set wouldn't be able to bring them back.



> *
> For most of DB the focus was on comedy with some action.  That shifted more toward action with some comedy and it was at that point DB and then DBZ became really successful.  Amusing, the original DB had at least one scene (obviously cut for the US release) that is classified as hentai now. *




More than just one scene: Goku's endless discussions about genatalia, urination, several characters obsession with girls panties (and girls in general), fondling of female body-parts and so forth.  Never mind happy talking poop from Dr. Slump.


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## Mallus (Nov 15, 2002)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *It's sort of funny but the first Anime I ever saw was Legend of the Overfiend, if you don't know what it is count yourself lucky, If you have seen it then I am terribly sorry, it's the kind of movie that just makes you feel dirty when it's over. *




I couldn't just let this go...

Yes, Legend of the Overfiend should make you feel dirty. There's a lot of horrifc stuff in it. But the same could be said about the movies of Passolini, or less obscurely, films like Last Exit to Brooklyn, or Requiem For a Dream {or any project Harmony Korine is involved with}.

It's most centainly not for everyone, but I found it kinda brilliant. I rememebr the Village Voice called it "not genre-breaking, but genre anihilating". That about sums it up. It mixes genre elements, including hardcore pornography, in a way that I'd never seen before. And haven't since.

It also takes subtext of sexual violence that's been present in horror and sci-fi forever{consider early pulp covers featuring transparent spacesuited women being carried off by bug-eyed monsters}, and brings it to the surface in an explict fashion. I like that confrontational nature.


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## Tharkun (Nov 15, 2002)

Can someone please explain the appeal to Anime?  I have seen a few things like Those who hunt elves, Bubble Gum crisis.  But that's it.


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## WizarDru (Nov 15, 2002)

Tharkun said:
			
		

> *Can someone please explain the appeal to Anime?  I have seen a few things like Those who hunt elves, Bubble Gum crisis.  But that's it. *




The problem with this question, and don't take this the wrong way, but it's like asking what's the appeal of science fiction or mysteries, in a way.  Though it may not necessarily appear that way from a cursory glance, anime is fairly vast, based on japanese comics, called manga, which cover even more territory.  Certain kinds of anime are much more popular in the U.S. than others.  Anime features fewer genres than manga, and is targetted at a less broad audience, usually children on through to college students.  Manga, on the other hand, covers all ages and topics, from business stories, politics (Eagle), romance stories, Golf tournaments, horse trainers, superheroes, samurai epics, giant robots, science fiction and everything under the sun.

There are anime stories that can and have been done as live actions shows, with virtually no change between them, such as the romantic comedy Maison Ikkokku, historical drama Sazae-san (the tale of a young buddhist acolyte in Edo era Japan) and Great Teacher Onizuka, a sitcom about a former bike gang member who decides to become a teacher (and a damn good one, at that).

Other shows are pure realms of fantasy, and cover a wide range.  It is the more fantastic shows that prove popular in the U.S., by a considerable margin. 

To me, anime has several basic appeals that first interested me:

*1) More sophisticated plots than american cartoons:*  especially as a child of the 70s/80s, this was so.  U.S. fare in the 80s of my late youth was primarily one of 'each toy sold separately'.  Compared against the story of a single man waging war against an invading empire while his own planet ignored the danger...well, Thundercats was no 'Captain Harlock'.  These days, american cartoons have improved in quality, especially a show like say, Jackie Chan adventures or any of the DC superhero shows.

*2) Much better animation.*  The rise of computers has only changed the bar levels between U.S. animators and Japanese animators.  Except for theatrical presentations, the Japanese (and now Koreans) find better ways to get more bang for their buck.  They use different techniques to accomplish this, some of which are also artistic at the same time, such as long pan shots and characters lost-in-thought, for example.

The advent of computer technology and 'tweening' has only worsened this trend, as some US animators try to make everything on the cheap.  You can see this in many lower budget US shows, and the general poor quality of the animation as a result.

*3) Much bigger scope and advancing storylines.*  Things happen.  In an american production, all of the characters have to be on deck and the story moving within fifteen minutes of the start of the pilot.  In anime, some of the main characters might not even appear until episode four or five.  Over time they change...not just their personalities, but their clothes, their looks...even their allegiences.  

Further, animation allows things that would be amazingly expensive to be done with ease.  In a live action production, a single fight scene from Hellsing might cost millions.  In animation, it doesn't cost anymore to illustrate a character jumping fifty feet in the air and smashing a building with a laser than it doe to show him getting into his car or sitting down to read a book.

*4) More mature themes.*  How many people died in Transformers, excepting the movie?   None.  In GI Joe, how many people were killed by the cartoonish violence?  None.  In Star Blazers/Space Cruiser Yamato, how many men died during the battle of Jupiter in the Andromeda fleet?  All of them.  In Macross, when the Zentraedi decide to eliminate mankind as a threat, 98% of humanity is wiped out.  When you're old enough to handle that kind of story-telling, you look at the alternatives and wonder why it seems lackluster, now.

And I'll be honest, when I was younger, seeing things like cursing, violence and nudity was pretty cool in a cartoon.  There was a certain vicarous thrill to seeing Maetel get naked...even if it was just to take a bath.    Never mind that characters drink, smoke and have sex...oh, and carry firearms. 

Beyond that, much of anime tackles more difficult issues than 'stop the ghost from scaring everyone away from the mine'.  Societal pressures; the nature of man, fate and duty; love and honor; and a host of deep topics can suffuse what might otherwise just be simple superheroics can transform a story to deeper meaning.  The aforementioned Captain Harlock befriends and safeguards a little girl, often imperiling himself to great risk from her guardians, who use her like a chess pawn to draw Harlock in.  Why?  Because she's the daughter of his best friend, now dead.  Harlock's gunner joins the crew after aliens kill his father, and the government does nothing about it.  These just aren't the kinds of things you see in american cartoons.

*5. Better acting:*  This one is ironic in that when I first got into anime, I couldn't understand a jot of Japanese.  But the quality of the voice-acting and the obvious intensity of the delivery is what truly makes anime's acting seem so much better.  This has changed a lot in recent years, though.  

The issue, though, is that in the US, animation is in what I call 'the comedy ghetto'.  The Simpsons are succesful, but that's the only way US audiences historically have been offered animation for anyone but children.  The assumption is that somehow, more serious content can't be passed on in through the animated format, and that's irritating, when anime fans have seen it done countless times.


Well, that's enough for now.  Incidentally, anime has plenty of flaws, too, but you didn't ask for that, and that's an even more personal list than this one.


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## Tharkun (Nov 15, 2002)

Ok, so tell me what are some flaws in Anime?   Hey you asked 

















2nd what's the appeal of SciFi?  I'm kidding!  But really what elements of SciFi are appealing?


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## jdavis (Nov 16, 2002)

Mallus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I couldn't just let this go...
> 
> ...




Overfiend is the kind experience that makes you feel bad for liking it, It had a decent message buried somewhere down in there and the fight scenes were incredible, it's just,......... well it makes the Book of Vile Darkness look like a children's book. I can't really get into even describing how to describe it. And it was a series of movies, ( http://www.f4.fhtw-berlin.de/people/s0338516/uromovs/ )  the second one wasn't as good and I never saw any of the rest but there is a suprising amount of this kind of Anime out there, you can't really call it Hentai, it's sort of like ultraviolent hentai. Here is the review from Anime Meta Review http://www.serc.rmit.edu.au/~ashelton/anime/html/legend_of_the_overfiend_a.html

Please don't take this as a standard example of Anime it is at the far extreme of.... well everything.


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## jdavis (Nov 16, 2002)

I have to pretty much concur with WizarDru"s post on what is good about Anime. When you get right down to it Anime is so diversified that it is hard say what is so good about it, Anime covers as broad a area as American TV in general, American cartoons are entertainment for children for the most part, Anime is general TV for everybody. Like Police Drama's well you can find those in Anime, Science Fiction? no problem, Relationship movies, yea got them too. 

One of my favorite things is the Sci Fi stuff, lets face it in America there is just so much Sci Fi stuff out there and the majority of it is low budget crap. There is enough Sci Fi anime to match everything done in America 10 times over and most of it is at a higher quality.

Anime flaws, well in general it's all animated, that can be a strength or a flaw depending, but it will always mark it out as different. Second is that there is a huge culture difference from America to Japan, some things just don't transfer well cross-culture.


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## Enchantress (Nov 16, 2002)

Tharkun said:
			
		

> *Ok, so tell me what are some flaws in Anime?   Hey you asked  *




Some of the flaws in anime....well, being the huge fan of it that I am, I have to say I haven't found many. But the again, it is more a matter of oppinion than anything. I think that sometimes the makers of a show ruin it by adding things that needn't be there. For example; I was channel surfing and I found an anime. As I got into it I realized that it had a great plot line, intriguing characters, plenty of good artwork...But then they had to ruin it by adding sweat drops. And I don't mean the little ones that pop out during puberty, I mean the ones that only Japan can make that take up more than half the head. But like I said, it's a matter of oppinion, And mine is that anyone who doesn't loke anime isn't fit to live on this earth! 
 just kidding! After all, I live in Utah for God's sake, NO ONE here likes anime.


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## Chun-tzu (Nov 16, 2002)

Sure, anime has its flaws. It's often derivative and unoriginal, but that goes for any kind of medium (TV, books, movies...).

Some really good series get cut off before the story is finished. But that also happens all the time in TV and comics.

Sometimes things don't translate easily from Japanese into American, and something gets lost or completely mangled in the translation. That's not so much a flaw of anime as it is a limitation of translation.

The very fact that it's animated causes many Westerners to completely misunderstand it as a medium. That's a fault of the audience, though.

Some series aren't terribly concerned with consistency. For example, in Dragonball Z, characters are often using new powers/techniques that they haven't before, which isn't that bad, but they also seem to forget about powers that there's no reason they shouldn't use. Like, why doesn't Piccolo use his tri-form technique more often? Again, this is a flaw that's hardly limited to Japanese TV.

I can't really think of any flaws that are exclusive to anime.


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## Doc_Subtlety (Nov 16, 2002)

Coming into this discussion late:


> I haven't actually watched the two Evangelion post-series releases (one of which, I think, is a reworking of the final three episodes, and the other the capstone to the series). Essentially, they are the producers kicking you between the legs, if friends are to be believed. They were apparently somewhat irritated by fan reactions to the final three episodes to the series.



I just watched Evangelion start to finish last month, including the final movie (End of Evangelion).

Basically, the deal is that the final two episodes of the series were abstract.  Experimental.  I guess most of the audience didn't really like them.  (I still only sort of know what I saw.  After the stuff with Kaoru, it's all a little...what the heck.)

So, the movies recap the series (well, about half of Death and Rebirth is a jarring, wonderful recap of the entire series), and wrap it up with brutality that is much harder to watch, but easier to make sense of.  Oh, and I do mean brutality - whoever compared it to getting kicked in the groin wasn't kidding.  


Oh, question: 
Anybody else here seen Sexy Commando?  And if not, why not?


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## WizarDru (Nov 16, 2002)

Tharkun said:
			
		

> *Ok, so tell me what are some flaws in Anime?   Hey you asked *




Heh.  I didn't ask for it, I said _you_ didn't.

Anime's flaws are even more personal than it's strengths.  Everyone feels differently, particularly on this topic.  That said, here's a quick list of a few.

*Repetition*  The Japanese love nothing more than a formula, and copyright laws in Japan aren't quite what they are here.  Like Evangelion?  Don't worry, if it was popular, you'll see ten series next year that are essentially rehashes of it, thematically and visually, if not exactly.  What's that?  Stick a hot alien chick in a guy's closet and it's funny?  How about if she's a goddess and brings her sisters?  How about six alien women who are all warm for his form?   Maybe put him in a boarding house with a bunch of girls...and remember, the guy always has to be noble, pure and intimidated by women so that he completely resists all of their advances.

*Resistance to innovation*:  Oh, it happens, all right.  But it's always a minor miracle when it does.  When a show does innovate and succeeds, it gets coopted by every show out there.  Evangelion is an innovator, for example, but it still uses giant robots and anime sci-fi elements to do it.    This doesn't mean there aren't some innovative stuff out there, and it's become more prevalent, but truly unique shows are rare, compared with manga.

*Different Cultural References and Preferences*  This is a purely non-Japanese issue, of course, but it still applies.  The Japanese have no problem with ambigous endings, in general, but American audiences find them maddening.  Take Kishin Corps, for example: the alternate WWII tale with giant robots....where do the aliens come from?  What's their agenda?  Don't know, never gonna know.  

The Japanese have a different comfort level with different images.   Some things, such as causual nudity work both ways.  It allows for mature story-telling in one venue, but much more immature representations of women, in particular, and sometimes awkward lewd sexual references which seem innappropriate to American audiences.

Cultural references can be odd or just perplexing to the uninitiated.  The aforementioned 'giant drop of sweat' to illustrate apprehension and awkwardness is not as hard to discern as, say, the instant nosebleed that virgins get when having powerful sexual thoughts.


There are some others, but I'm rushed right now.   Even so, I love anime.  Have for over 20 years now.  But certain things show up as trends, and there hard not to notice.


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## Tewligan (Nov 16, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *
> And whether I am yaoi-deprived is NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS!!!!!!!!! *



I'm already hating myself in advance for asking this, but what is "yaoi", and what are the effects of being deprived of it?  I'm guessing it's something crotch-related - please, god, let me be wrong.


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## Tsyr (Nov 16, 2002)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> *
> I'm already hating myself in advance for asking this, but what is "yaoi", and what are the effects of being deprived of it?  I'm guessing it's something crotch-related - please, god, let me be wrong. *




yaoi or shonen-ai = male homosexuality

yuri or shoujo-ai = female homosexuality


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## Enchantress (Nov 17, 2002)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> Cultural references can be odd or just perplexing to the uninitiated.  The aforementioned 'giant drop of sweat' to illustrate apprehension and awkwardness is not as hard to discern as, say, the instant nosebleed that virgins get when having powerful sexual thoughts. *




Oh, is THAT why Tenchi Muyo is always getting them?!


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## Tsyr (Nov 17, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh, is THAT why Tenchi Muyo is always getting them?! *




Him... Ryouga... Kietaro... etc. 

It's Tenchi Masaki, btw, Muyo is the name of the series.


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## Enchantress (Nov 18, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Him... Ryouga... Kietaro... etc.
> 
> It's Tenchi Masaki, btw, Muyo is the name of the series. *




I knew that. No, really, I did!


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## hong (Nov 18, 2002)

So, um, has anyone seen _Spirited Away_?

Awesome stuff.


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## Black Omega (Nov 18, 2002)

Yes, I saw the subtitled version at Gencon.  Excellent stuff.  A little more fantastic than Princess Mononoke but with a little more of a creepy feeling than My Neighbor Totoro.  Well, aside from the Cat Bus in MNT  Spirited Away is well worth a look.


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## WizarDru (Nov 18, 2002)

hong said:
			
		

> *So, um, has anyone seen _Spirited Away_?
> 
> Awesome stuff. *




Indeed.  As heavy on the allegory as Monoke, but suitable for a younger audience (though not as young as Totoro).  I can show Kiki and Totoro to my kids (and have, and they luv 'em), and I can probably show Spirited Away to my daughter.  

We picked up the 'Art of' book back in May, but I'd avoided really looking at it until after I saw the theatrical release last month (didn't want to spoil anything).  As I sat on the couch, flipping through it, my daughter came up, immediately made the visual connection between Chihoro and Kiki, and then DEMANDED that I explain what was happening and the story in the pictures show (which luckily are chronologically ordered).

Eagerly awaiting the DVD release.


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## Drakmar (Nov 18, 2002)

The thing I love about Anime... is that in Japan it is king.

Highest Grossing Movie in the Cinemas in Japan....
Spirited Away.
2nd... Titanic
3rd... Princess Monoke.

I love Anime. It Rocks.

I think that Bebop is one of my favs because of the music.. it has a fantastic musical score.


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## Mallus (Nov 18, 2002)

*jdavis...*

... agreed that you should absolutely not think of Overfiend as representitive of anime. All hentai is a small part of the anime market. And the interesting thing about the Overfiend series is, taken as a whole, it demonstrates how the pornographic elements begin to overwhelm the everything else, kind of cancer-like. The 2nd was less interesting, and the next I found it utterely without value.

On a lighter note, any Miyazaki fan should hunt down the Studio Ghibli {sp?} anthology set. 5 disks, 10 films {including Grave of Firelflies, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, Nausicaa: Valley of the Winds, Kiki's Delivery Service, My Neighbor Tortoro, and Mononoke}, all the original cuts w/subtitles. A friend of mine got it when the Wizards Comic Convention hit Philadelphia for around $100.


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## WizarDru (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: jdavis...*



			
				Mallus said:
			
		

> *... agreed that you should absolutely not think of Overfiend as representitive of anime. All hentai is a small part of the anime market. And the interesting thing about the Overfiend series is, taken as a whole, it demonstrates how the pornographic elements begin to overwhelm the everything else, kind of cancer-like. The 2nd was less interesting, and the next I found it utterely without value.
> 
> On a lighter note, any Miyazaki fan should hunt down the Studio Ghibli {sp?} anthology set. 5 disks, 10 films {including Grave of Firelflies, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, Nausicaa: Valley of the Winds, Kiki's Delivery Service, My Neighbor Tortoro, and Mononoke}, all the original cuts w/subtitles. A friend of mine got it when the Wizards Comic Convention hit Philadelphia for around $100. *




Really?  What region are they?  I assumed they were Region 2, and you'd have to hack to make them play on a normal DVD player.  Are they region 0, do you know?


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## Mallus (Nov 18, 2002)

*WizarDru...*



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Really?  What region are they?  I assumed they were Region 2, and you'd have to hack to make them play on a normal DVD player.  Are they region 0, do you know? *





The disks play fine on my U.S. release PS2 and their owners low-end JVC player, so they can't be region 2. No fancy tricks needed.

And nice job summarizing the strengths and weaknesses of anime. And if I may, may I recommend FLCL {if you haven't already seen it}. I picked up all 6 eps at the Wizards con for $20.00. My knowledge of anime seems far less than yours, and I loved it {damnit if its not one of the most emotionally enganging animes I've ever seen, but its tremedously meta. i caught a fraction of the references to other amine in it.}


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## Tsyr (Nov 18, 2002)

Regarding the Studio Ghibli collection... I wanted to get that at one point, had it all called up on E-bay, ready to bid, then I noticed this...


```
Audio Tracks: Dolby Digital
Dialogue: Japanese
Subtitle: English/Chinese (On/Off)
Aspect Ratio: 16:9
Released By: Manga
Running Time: 1440 min.
Genre: Miscellaneous
Region Code: All region, NTSC ALL
No. of Disc: 6
```

English and Chinese subtitles? Uh-uh. If those are normal "english-like" subtitles you get on most chinese imports, I'll pass.

Any word on their quality?

It is all region, though.


----------



## WizarDru (Nov 18, 2002)

*Re: WizarDru...*



			
				Mallus said:
			
		

> *The disks play fine on my U.S. release PS2 and their owners low-end JVC player, so they can't be region 2. No fancy tricks needed.
> 
> And nice job summarizing the strengths and weaknesses of anime. And if I may, may I recommend FLCL {if you haven't already seen it}. I picked up all 6 eps at the Wizards con for $20.00. My knowledge of anime seems far less than yours, and I loved it {damnit if its not one of the most emotionally enganging animes I've ever seen, but its tremedously meta. i caught a fraction of the references to other amine in it.} *




Thanks, and thanks for the info.  Scorch has recommended FLCL to me, so I'll prolly watch it.  Most of the time, his tastes and mine are spot on (although our level of dedication to a show may vary).

The beauty of fandom of any kind these days is that the Internet has grown so huge and so much a part of our daily lives that we have virtual communities like ENworld and access to untold amounts of information.

I remember when I joined the Cartoon/Fantasy Organization (the C/FO, the first attempt at a national anime fanclub before anime became a household word) back in the mid-80s, when a bootleg of Castle Cagliostro from a laserdisc copy ran me $35 (no subtitles, thank you very much)...and getting the program guide to the San Antonio Anime Convention.  Those plot summaries, horrible as they are in today's light, were like shining gems back then.

These days, if I want info on a series, I just hit the web or a set of community sites.  It's a beautful thing.

My only problem with anime fandom these days is that so many fans are ignorant of shows that were made more than five years ago.  When I hear someone refer to Evangelion as one of the old shows, I kind of goggle.  Xabungle?  Now that's an old show.  Lupin the Third, first series?  Yup.  Cats Eye, MS Gundam, the original Dirty Pair, Aura Battler Dunbine, Heavy Metal L-gaim and Votoms?  You betcha.  Some shows weren't great, but some were, and I've run across some fans who won't give a show the time of day because the animation isn't as fancy.  I realize some of the old material just isn't as available as more recent stuff, but it's worth the effort, trust me.


----------



## Mallus (Nov 18, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Any word on their quality?
> *




I had no problem w/the subtitles. Sure, there are gaffes, but nothing that took away from my enjoyment of the films. Miyazaki is such an intensely visual filmaker {"painterly" gets thrown around a lot when critics discuss him} anyway, I can't imagine that a few translation goofs would have much impact on the experience of his films.

And as a side note, can you accurately translate Japanese into English? Or rather, does anyone bother when it comes to video/film? I've read Murakami's novels in English and they're great --but everything I've seen has my believing we ought stick Japanese in the same boat as Linear B.


----------



## Syunsuke (Nov 20, 2002)

Some of you might envy me becouse I live in Japan and I'm Japanese.
I haven't seen many anmime for several years but I'm interested in non-Japanese anime fan.
Do you know this site? I think this is a very good website to understand anime.
http://www.mit.edu:8001/afs/athena.mit.edu/user/r/e/rei/WWW/Anime.html 

And, as Japanese, I'm not very happy tha word _hentai_ used in English so please take a look on this one.
http://home.attbi.com/~kagamix2/H_does_not_mean_hentai/index.html 


My most anticipated anime in futere is _Tsuki-hime_.
But I don't think any of you know this title 
Tsuki-hime means "moon-princess" literally.
The story is...too difficult for my English 



WizarDru,



> the tale of a young buddhist acolyte in Edo era Japan




It's _Ikkyu-san_, I think.
Sazae-san is a family dorama focused on daily life.



> yaoi or shonen-ai = male homosexuality
> yuri or shoujo-ai = female homosexuality




shonen = boy,
shoujo  = girl,
ai = love.

I think _shonen-ai_ and _shoujo-ai_ sounds pedphillia for me (Japanses) though _shonen-ai_ implys male homosexuality, too.
If male adult loves a boy, it's _shonen-ai_.
I a boy loves a boy, it's not _shonen-ai_...for me, at least.

_Yaoi_ is male homosexuality, but this term is used in the context of anime (manga, or computer game) only. This word have no other meaning.
_Yuri_ is female homosexuality in the contexit of anime and porno. This word normaly means lily.

Sorry for nitpicking.


----------



## Pazu (Nov 20, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Regarding the Studio Ghibli collection... I wanted to get that at one point, had it all called up on E-bay, ready to bid, then I noticed this...
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If this is the same DVD collection that I have, be aware that this is a non-licensed release.  Official DVD releases of the Studio Ghibli films haven't been completed even in Japan (Region 2) to date, and, IIRC, the only legal region 1 DVDs of Ghibli films currently are _Princess Mononoke_ and _Grave of the Fireflies_, although I think _My Neighbor Totoro_ and _Kiki's Delivery Service_ are coming soon.

Regarding the subbing, the translations on the ones I've watched (_Pom Poko, My Neighbor Totoro, Whisper of the Heart, Only Yesterday_, and _Laputa: Castle in the Sky_) have been decent, but the timing is often pretty off.  _ Pom Poko _ is particularly bad in this regard.

-- Pazu


----------



## Pazu (Nov 20, 2002)

And, as far as favorite anime go, my personal list. 

1.  Anything by Studio Ghibli (as you might have guessed from the handle).  Up to and including the animated video for _On Your Mark_ by Chage & Aska.

2.  I'll jump on the bandwagon for _Cowboy Bebop_. The music is amazing, and the way it's integrated with the episodes works very well.

3.  _Vision of Escaflowne_ (TV series).  The movie was very pretty, but I preferred the original story.

4.  Excellent movies include _Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust, Jin-Roh, Metropolis, Akira_, and _Ghost in the Shell_.  I'm probably the only anime fan who fell asleep during _Ninja Scroll_, but that one just didn't do it for me.  Maybe I should watch it again.  I enjoyed _Spriggan_, but thought it didn't really live up to all the preview hype.  _X/1999_ was visually spectacular, but felt rushed on-screen (I understand the pacing in the TV series is a little more measured).

5.  I really enjoyed _Rurouni Kenshin_ up to the end of the Kyoto arc (except for a couple of the one-shot episodes).  The two-part OAV is very good, if depressing.  I understand the concluding OAV (currently released in Japan) is even more depressing.

6.  I also really liked _Neon Genesis Evangelion_, including the original ending.  I found _The End of Evangelion_ to be rather heartbreakingly desolate.

7.  I still enjoy lots of stuff by Rumiko Takahashi (_Ranma 1/2, Urusei Yatsura, Inu-Yasha_).

Stuff that I think is somewhat underrated:

1.  _Demon City Shinjuku_.  I actually find that this is a great introduction to anime for folks who think it's all Pokemon and giant robots.

2.  _Silent Mobius_, the TV series.  For some reason, I just have a soft spot for the characters.

3.  _Outlaw Star_.  I think it suffered from not being _Cowboy Bebop_ during the "space-western" genre mini-frenzy, but on its own, I found it enjoyable.

4.  _Oh! My Goddess_, OAV series and movie.  I know folks often think they're sweet enough to induce tooth decay, but hey, I guess I'm just a softie. 

5.  _Gatchaman_, 1993 OAV.  More or less pure nostalgia with a slice of extra gratuitous cheesecake.

Okay, I'm going to stop here now, since once I get rolling on anime, I can fill pages and pages with blather... 

-- Pazu


----------



## Mr Fidgit (Nov 20, 2002)

Pazu said:
			
		

> * I'm probably the only anime fan who fell asleep during Ninja Scroll, but that one just didn't do it for me.  Maybe I should watch it again*



i'd say give it another shot, it's one of my favorites

i also liked Jin-Roh (although this is another anime that when i watched it, i thought it could have been a live-action film) 

i'm afraid that i can't bring myself to watch Metropolis. the whole 'androids look like people, but people look like Astroboy' thing bugs me..


----------



## WizarDru (Nov 20, 2002)

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *
> i'd say give it another shot, it's one of my favorites
> 
> i also liked Jin-Roh (although this is another anime that when i watched it, i thought it could have been a live-action film)
> ...




Jin-Roh may have been live-action, as well.  There were some live-action movies made in the same world.

I would give Metropolis a chance:  yes, the God Of Manga's style didn't change much over his lifetime...but he invented Manga, and his nuanced story-telling and dramatic graphic style are worth seeing in this adaption.  I'd also recommend BlackJack, while you're at it.  The Madhouse adaptions have character designs completely unrelated to the original artwork, although I actually prefer the manga more.


----------



## Mr Fidgit (Nov 20, 2002)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *I would give Metropolis a chance... I'd also recommend BlackJack, while you're at it.   *



i may just do that

the problem is, if none of my friends have it, and no video store carries them to rent, i'm not going to see it (i don't have the money to go out and buy them, sight unseen)

...which bites because there of plenty of movies and series i'd like to see (BlackJack, as you mentioned, and the Escaflowne series)


----------



## Darkness (Nov 25, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Hey, I'm this boards Anime Mascot
> 
> Well, no one has apointed me the title, but it's vacant to my knowledge, so... *



/me coughs and points at his sig. 

Granted, I'm not a _mascot_, but...


----------



## Darkness (Nov 25, 2002)

Kilmore said:
			
		

> *My campaign gets much of it's life from the Slayers anime.  I am MOST eagerly anticipating the Guardians of Order Slayers D20 Guide next year.*



Very fortunate that Mongoose isn't doing this - or it would be the _Slayer's Guide to Slayers_.


----------



## Enchantress (Nov 27, 2002)

Pazu said:
			
		

> *And, as far as favorite anime go, my personal list.
> 2.  I'll jump on the bandwagon for Cowboy Bebop. The music is amazing, and the way it's integrated with the episodes works very well.
> 3.  Vision of Escaflowne (TV series).  The movie was very pretty, but I preferred the original story.
> 3.  Outlaw Star.  I think it suffered from not being Cowboy Bebop during the "space-western" genre mini-frenzy, but on its own, I found it enjoyable.
> 4.  Oh! My Goddess, OAV series and movie.  I know folks often think they're sweet enough to induce tooth decay, but hey, I guess I'm just a softie. -- Pazu *




I agree competely that the music in Cowboy Bebop is great, lllllooooooved Vision of Escaflowne (both movie and series, though the series better by far), I think Outlaw Star had it's own charm to it and still enjoyed it. And, being the gushy romantic that I am, I llllllooooooove Oh! My Goddess.


----------



## Kesh (Nov 27, 2002)

Well, might as well chime in. 

1. *X* - Aka, _X/1999_, a story about the end of the world, and one boy who gets to decide: will the Earth be saved, or destroyed? I've only recently stumbled across this one, and I'm addicted to the TV series. I'm holding off from seeing the movie, to avoid spoiling the ending. 

2. *Perfect Blue* - Good lord. This one will either quivering because you've just seen an incredible movie, or curled up in a fetal ball and crying because you have no idea what just happened.  A very entertaining romp through the mind of a young pop star as she begins to crack under the stress of stardom and stalkers.

3. *Princess Mononoke* - An excellent tale set in feudal Japan, with a fictional twist. Animal gods roam the sacred forests, while humans attempt to rip the resources from the land for their own needs. In the middle is a  young boy, dying from a demon's curse, and a young woman raised by wolves.

4. *Akira* - The quintessential anime, one most people start with. Incredible animation & music, combined with a complex story make for quite a satisfying movie. You really have to watch this more than once to get all the subtle connections between the events. This is a story of genetic manipulation and the dangers of a society allowed to wallow in its own pity.

5. *Cowboy Bebop* - Bounty hunters in outer space. Need I say more? Oh, and it has a cute dog too. 

6. *Outlaw Star* - Not a favorite of all who see it, but it's a fun action sci-fi series about a man, an android, and the secret that governments and pirates are willing to kill for.

7. *Hamtaro!* - I'm sorry, but this show is just so damn cute. Please kill me now, I can't be saved!


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 9, 2002)

Kesh said:
			
		

> *7. Hamtaro! - I'm sorry, but this show is just so damn cute. Please kill me now, I can't be saved!  *




You're right. You can't.


----------



## jdavis (Dec 9, 2002)

My six year old loves Hamtaro, I have sat through almost every episode not to mention all the money spent on merchandise. They are so cute you want to choke them.


----------



## Agamon (Dec 10, 2002)

Once upon a time I watched anime, but not so much anymore.  I still have a copy of subbed Ranma 1/2 #1 and dubbed Ninja Scroll and Ghost in the Shell, but I sold the rest of my collection to a friend that was quite the ravenous anime fan.

Edit: Geez, forgot to post my favs...

Ninja Scroll
Record of Lodoss War
Ghost in the Shell
BGC
Akira
Ranma 1/2
Dragonball Z (as mindless as it was...)


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 11, 2002)

*sniff* why don't you watch it anymore?


----------



## WizarDru (Dec 11, 2002)

You should give more recent shows a try.  Many shows that were aimed at an older audience appeared in the last few years.  It's rather refreshing to see some shows where the protagonist isn't a middle or high-school student.

I'd highly recommend Cowboy Bebop: odd name, brilliant show.  At turns both funny, tragic and very noir, it defies a lot of conventions.  There are many, many more, but that's the one I'd use as a gateway, if I were pulling people into anime, these days.


----------



## Corinth (Dec 13, 2002)

_Cowboy Bebop_ is one of the best anime series yet made, and everyone gets something they love out of it.


----------



## Epametheus (Dec 13, 2002)

Hooray for fan-subbing.

Shows that I have seen all of (that I think are worth looking at):
Vision of Escaflowne
Neon Genesis Evangelion (subbed, thank god)
El-Hazard: The Magnificent World, El-Hazard 2, El-Hazard: The Wanderers, El-Hazard: The Alternate World (Wanderers is the TV series; the rest is OVA).
Initial D & Initial D: Second Stage
Vandread (both seasons; each season is 13 eps)
Trigun
Cowboy Bebop
Outlaw Star
Fruits Basket
Noir
Read or Die
Full Metal Panic!
Kenshin OVA (NOT Samurai X, for god's sake; I hate ADV)
.hack//sign and its attendant OVA series, .hack//luminality
SaiKano (not its full name, but even the official japanese website (saikano.net) calls it SaiKano)

Probably more in that list, but I'm having a brain fart.

Movies:
Spirited Away
Princess Mononoke
Oh! My Goddess movie (I cannot remember its title)
Inu-yasha: Love that Transcends Time
Laputa: Castle in the Sky
Patlabor: the movie 2 & 3 (note: 3 really isn't a Patlabor movie; it's just a neat movie that happens to have the Patlabor license for some reason)
Kenshin movie (can't remember the proper title; good except for excessive use of one flashback)
Yuyu Hakusho: 2nd Movie
Great Conquest: Romance of the Three Kingdoms (covers the first 17 chapters of the novel, with some cutting)
The End of Evangelion

On the currently watching list:
Inu-yasha (seen up to episode.. *checks* 90! And still more coming down the line)
Witch Hunter Robin (seen up to ep 8; amusingly enough, the only difference between the Hunters and the Witches is that the Hunters work for an organization; this will have interesting repercussions further down the line, I'm sure)
Azamungah Diaoh (only seen a few eps of it, but I _will_ see more at some point)
Kenshin (I really need to watch past ep 24)

On the "was-watching-until-the-local-anime-club-died-momentarily" list:
Onegai Teacher (not sure what to make of it yet)
Card Captor Sakura (in contention with Fruits Basket for cutest damn thing ever)
Hellsing ("It fires depleted uranium? Is that even legal?")
Scryed (can't give a single sentence summary that does it justice)
+ a bunch of shows actually in my "already seen list"

I think that covers it...  

Edit: Realized I'd neglected to place SaiKano in the list..


----------



## WizarDru (Dec 13, 2002)

What ?!?!

No Great Teacher Onizuka?

REPENTANCE!!!


----------



## Epametheus (Dec 13, 2002)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *What ?!?!
> 
> No Great Teacher Onizuka?
> 
> REPENTANCE!!! *




Nope, haven't seen a single ep. of it.  Guess I should remedy that at some point...


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 13, 2002)

You should add Gundam Wing to that list too. In case you haven't noticed, it is my calling in life to convert everyone I meet to the religion of Gundamism. May the Zero system be with you.


----------



## Epametheus (Dec 13, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *You should add Gundam Wing to that list too. In case you haven't noticed, it is my calling in life to convert everyone I meet to the religion of Gundamism. May the Zero system be with you. *




Forgot about that...  heh.  Most of the guys I know are generally at best indifferent to Wing, while the girls all love it.  Overall, I actually liked it.  Except for one little bit.

I hated Wu-Fei.  They had to put out a special episode 0 (manga form only, if I remember right) just to explain what the hell was wrong with that boy.

Now, original Gundam (while being pretty silly in of itself -- the mechs are fighting while standing on fighter hets) has one of the best lines I've heard in a dubbed anime in a while.

Char:  "The best way to flush a rat out of its nest is to carpet-bomb it."


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 13, 2002)

The reason some/most girls love it is that they leave you hanging when it comes to the relationships of the characters. You have no idea how many heated debates I hae been in discussing wether or not a certain character was homosexual. Plus...they're hot. No they really are. I have posters of them hanging on my walls, and I sketch them in my free time.
P.S. Would love to discuss likes and dislikes about the series and movie with you.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Dec 13, 2002)

One of my female friends whose an anime fan judges her shows by the characters' hair. (That's not the only thing she judges them by, and she actually has pretty good taste.) But she really likes the hair in Gundam Wing  

Actually, I'm pretty fond of Gundam Wing, myself. I have a killer super-size wall scroll of the Wing Zero versus the Epyon in outer space that is just amazing. The action scenes are good, but they could use more of it. But you just gotta love the mecha in Gundam Wing: the Wing Zero, the Epyon, Deathscythe and Shen Long are all second only to the original Macross Veritech in coolness.


----------



## Epametheus (Dec 13, 2002)

The ambigous relationships are probably why a lot of the guys I know disliked it.  Too much bishie in one place.  I figure that Wu-Fei, Heero, and Duo were quite heterosexual; Trowa and Quatre are another matter   (note: as I understand it, Wu-Fei is actually a widower -- that's part of what's wrong with him -- and the girl that performs with Trowa in the circus is actually his long-lost sister, though I have no idea when either of them figure it out).

The Endless Duel OVA was interesting.. ("Are all of your shields up?" "Yes." "Are you _sure?_"  "Um, y-y-yes.." "Okay." *fires*) 

Dunno just what there is to say about it, though...  Of course, it's also been a couple years since I saw it, too.


----------



## NiTessine (Dec 13, 2002)

My favourite anime...

Hellsing. _This_ is how vampire anime is to be done! And I want those sunglasses.
Rurouni Kenshin. One of the first animes I ever saw. Still the best, even though the quality dropped in the last twenty episodes.
Record of Lodoss War. It has its weaker moments, but overall... that's D&D, alright.
Neon Genesis Evangelion. It is weird, freaky, and occasionally very sick, but in a good way.
Vampire Hunter D: Bloodlust. Gets the honor of being the best dubbed anime I've ever seen. Excellent.
Princess Mononoke. Legendary animals! Tentacles! Guns! Bliss!
Vision of Escaflowne. Both the movie and the series are rather good. The fantasy mecha are an interesting idea, and one I'd like to see translated to D&D.
Love Hina. For some reason, I identify with Keitaro. Sad, huh?

I am currently waiting for my anime supplier to get me Trigun, Handmaid May, and Slayers Try... They're rather good, he tells me.

Oh, and by the way...
Vampire Princess Miyu. _This_ is how vampire anime is not to be done!


----------



## jdavis (Dec 13, 2002)

I hadn't bought any new anime since Evangellion, I went out to get some new stuff but came back with a older series Blue Seed perfect collection, I'll let you know how it turns out after I watch all 650 minutes of it.

I need to go through all my old anime a catalog what I have.


----------



## thatdarncat (Dec 13, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *Now can you guys see why I'm single? *Sigh* If none of you fell asleep drooling on your computers I'd be happy to discuss my mental issues. *




Nah, you just need to find a good geek bf  I went and found a geek gf who understands why I get giddy over animated characters. 

I'm currently trying to watch hacksign, but having some issues with figuring out what order the episodes go in. I suspect I've got ova mixed in with the tv eps 

Other anime I like: (Don't expect justifications for some of these )
Tenchi Muyo
Sailor Moon
Cardcaptor Sakura (sometimes I think seri would sell me for new episodes of CCS ) 
Macross Plus
El Hazard (ova more than the tv eps)
Slayers
Vandred
Full Metal Panic
Ranma 1/2
Eva
Utena
Bubblegum Crisis
Key the Metal Idol
Princess Mononoke
Battle Angel (though more the manga than the movie)
Kiki's Delivery Service
My Neighbour Totoro 
Akira - manga rocked, movie was good, much better in the latest release. 
Devil Hunter Yoko
Burn Up/Burn Up W
and I'm sure I'm missing a few. 

I've watched some digimon but missed most of the latest season. I have the movie on tape, went to see it in theaters. 

Anime I dispise - 
Now and then here and there. TOO DEPRESSING! 

Stuff I want to watch: 
Escaflowne
Trigun
Nadia
Fushigi Yuugi
the rest of Eva
Lain
Kimagure Orange Road
Bubblegum Crash
Marmalade Boy
Ah! My Goddess
Appleseed

This is just a partial list, I'll finish it when I get home


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

Epametheus said:
			
		

> *The ambigous relationships are probably why a lot of the guys I know disliked it.  Too much bishie in one place.  I figure that Wu-Fei, Heero, and Duo were quite heterosexual; Trowa and Quatre are another matter   (note: as I understand it, Wu-Fei is actually a widower -- that's part of what's wrong with him -- and the girl that performs with Trowa in the circus is actually his long-lost sister, though I have no idea when either of them figure it out).
> *




Thank You! I agree that Duo, Heero, and wufei were hetersexual, and yes, Trowa and Quatre are a completely diferent thing all together. I mean the blond wore a pink shirt through the entire episode. And does anyone else have a problem with Dorothy's eyebrows? And I'm not even gonna go into the gundam scientists and their looks. 
And Wufei is a widower. In fact, he named his gundam 'Nataku' after his deceased wife meilan, who called herself nataku, their Dragon God. 
And Chunt-tzu, Yes the hair rocks. You might go as far as to say that the people in the anime world have not yet invented the comb. Most of them just wake up and hit the road, but then again, other fans like myself may find that sexy.
And lastly to thatdarncat, believe me I have tried to find a good nerd boyfriend but have been unsuccesful in the search. Maybe I should aply for that Bachalorett t.v. show...


----------



## thatdarncat (Dec 14, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *And lastly to thatdarncat, believe me I have tried to find a good nerd boyfriend but have been unsuccesful in the search. Maybe I should aply for that Bachalorett t.v. show... *




No no no  The secret is not to look for a Nerd bf, look for a Geek bf. Believe me, there is a difference.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

Either way, I've not had the best of luck...*sighs dejectedly*


----------



## Kesh (Dec 14, 2002)

Wrong button, never mind.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 14, 2002)

This isn't an anime, but I really enjoy watching the cartoon of x-men evolution. The plot's good, it's got action, surprising endings, and is a major cliff hanger show. I may also like it becuse half the characters on this show are the voices of half the characters on Gundam Wing. Again, Yes I am obsessed.


----------



## Chun-tzu (Dec 15, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *This isn't an anime, but I really enjoy watching the cartoon of x-men evolution. The plot's good, it's got action, surprising endings, and is a major cliff hanger show. I may also like it becuse half the characters on this show are the voices of half the characters on Gundam Wing. Again, Yes I am obsessed. *




Holy cow! You're right!

Kirby Morrow - voice of Cyclops and Trowa Barton
Brad Swaile - voice of Nightcrawler and Quatre Reberba Winner
David Kaye - voice of Professor X and Treize Khushrenada
Scott McNeil - voice of Wolverine and Duo Maxwell

Even now, I'd have to watch those shows back-to-back to detect any similarities.


----------



## Enchantress (Dec 15, 2002)

Well that just, once again, shows that I am indeed obsessed.


----------



## Templetroll (Dec 19, 2002)

This link to the Anime network

Any info on this list of shows?  I've only heard of a couple.  

"Titles include Spriggan, Neon Genesis Evangelion, Excel Saga, Martian Successor Nadesico, Gasaraki, Noir, Dai-Guard, Bubblegum Crisis Tokyo 2040, Orphen, Golden Boy, Sorcerer Hunters, Kimera, Ninja Resurrection, Tekken, Those Who Hunt Elves, Gunsmith Cats, Burn Up W and Samurai X: The Motion Picture."

Interesting mispelling:

"... team of Sorcerer Hunters ready to take on any
*rouge* magic user that crosses their path."


----------



## hong (Dec 19, 2002)

I'm terribly ashamed to admit it's taken me THIS LONG to get around to watching Slayers. Having now devoured the first and second series, I have come to the conclusion that it absolutely rocks. Especially Slayers Next.

These guys ARE a D&D campaign. It's uncanny how close some of the stuff they get up to is to what goes on in a game.


----------



## Black Omega (Dec 19, 2002)

Templetroll said:
			
		

> *This link to the Anime network
> 
> Any info on this list of shows?  I've only heard of a couple.
> 
> ...



Samurai X..AKA Kenshin.  IMHO, not worth watching when dubbed.  If Tekken is the one I'm thinking of, it was pretty bad.  But that's typical for anime based on fighting games, save for the Street Fighter TV series.

Excel Saga, outrageous comedy but not for all tastes.  When it was funny it was very funny.  Most of the time it was too silly for me, though.

Those Who Hunt Elves is in much the same boat, though not -quite- as silly, that says more for Excel Saga, since TWHE is still pretty darned silly.  One of the anime that constantly look off 'camera 'to talk to those watching.

Bubble Gum Crisis is pretty good, and a sentimental favorite since I watched the original when I broke into anime.

Ninja Ressurection is the sequal to Ninja Scroll if memory serves me right, and not nearly as good. 

even so, it sounds like they have a good variety lined up.  But no hentai mentioned yet, tsk!


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## Mr Fidgit (Dec 19, 2002)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> *Ninja Ressurection is the sequal to Ninja Scroll if memory serves me right, and not nearly as good.  *



IMHO, fans of Ninja Scroll should ignore the fact that Ninja Ressurection is _supposedly_ a sequel. it wasn't very good at all...


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## WizarDru (Dec 19, 2002)

It's not a sequel...just an attempt to cash in on a pretty successful production by association.  The same way you'll see a movie touted as being from the same producer as a successful film, no matter how little that person actually had to do with said content.


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## Turgenev (Dec 19, 2002)

I've been a fan of anime ever since I first saw Battle of the Planets (G-Force/Gatchaman) as a kid. Course I didn't recognize it as anime then and it wasn't until I saw Robotech as a teenager that I realized there was a whole genre of the stuff. 

I haven't really watched anything new over the last few years but I still have my personal favourites. To this day I'm still a huge Gatchaman fan (own all of the original episodes of the 1st series - untranslated without subtitles). 

Other stuff I enjoy is (not in any order):

§ Lupin III tv series & the movies (especially the Castle of Cagliostro movie)
§ Anything done by Hayao Miyazaki (Princess Mononoke, My Neighbour Totoro, Laputa: Castle in the Sky, etc.)
§ Bubblegum Crisis (Bubblegum Crash wasn't as good but is okay)
§ Ranma 1/2 tv series and some of the OAVs
§ Akira (but can't watch it any more -- seen it too many times ;p )
§ Golgo 13: The Professional (like the manga more though)
§ Wings of Honneamise
§ Phantom Quest Corps (Yuugen Kaisha)
§ Vampire Princess Miyu
§ El Hazard (fantastic series)
§ Gunsmith Cats (not great, but fun)

I've been watching anime now for over twenty plus years so I've seen a lot of stuff that I have now forgotten about and some stuff I wish I could forget about. 

Cheers,
Tim


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## Alzrius (Dec 20, 2002)

I'm writing this post from a certain college in Ibaraki prefecture, Japan. The reason I'm here is because anime got be so interested in Japanese language and culture (specifically anime) that I'm majoring in it, and hence am over here as an exchange to it. I discovered anime at Gen Con '96, thanks to the wonderful guys at Hades Pro (who deserve some major major thanks for what they do every year for us Gen Con goers). So for me, D&D and anime are inextricably linked!


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## Samnell (Dec 20, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> Kirby Morrow - voice of Cyclops and Trowa Barton
> Brad Swaile - voice of Nightcrawler and Quatre Reberba Winner
> David Kaye - voice of Professor X and Treize Khushrenada
> Scott McNeil - voice of Wolverine and Duo Maxwell [/B]




Being an obsessive fan of both shows, I can't believe I never noticed this. Now I know why I really liked Nightcrawler's voice just out of nowhere. He's my favorite Evolution character. I wonder if this is why.


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## Hopping Vampire (Dec 20, 2002)

my favorite anime series' i have to say are Lodoss War:Chk, Trigun, Cowboy Bebop, Serial Expiriments Lain and Ninja Cadets.

Movies: Cowboy Bebop : Knockin on heavens Door, The wolf brigade, Fist of the North Star, Dirty Pair: Project Eden, all things involving lupin, and Wicked City.


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## Enchantress (Dec 21, 2002)

Samnell said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Being an obsessive fan of both shows, I can't believe I never noticed this. Now I know why I really liked Nightcrawler's voice just out of nowhere. He's my favorite Evolution character. I wonder if this is why. *




You ROCK!!!  Finally, someone who is an obsessive of those shows other than me! You are now officially a member of the religion of Gundamism.


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## Samnell (Dec 22, 2002)

Enchantress said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You ROCK!!!  Finally, someone who is an obsessive of those shows other than me! You are now officially a member of the religion of Gundamism. *




But I can only be a Wingist. I've tried to like other Gundam series. I really have. But they just don't do it for me.

But now I'm picturing Nightcrawler with blond hair piloting Sandrock, so all is well.


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## Epametheus (Dec 26, 2002)

*Bump?  Bump.*

Randomly on topic --

1) Is G Gundam quite possibly the dumbest Gundam show ever? (and if someone wants say that it's not: please explain the Mexican Tequila Gundam )

2) Hey, Samnell's got Tsukasa as his avatar now.  Have you seen all of .hack//Sign yet, Sam?


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## jdavis (Dec 26, 2002)

> 1) Is G Gundam quite possibly the dumbest Gundam show ever? (and if someone wants say that it's not: please explain the Mexican Tequila Gundam )




I watched every single stinking episode, it never got any better, the big kick for me was the United States secret weapon, the Statue of Liberty Cannon. It wasn't a bad concept but man it just got silly, and it was animated odd too.


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## LrdApoc (Dec 26, 2002)

No offense to the DB Z fans, but I call G Gundam, DRAGONBALL GUNDAM!!! complete with pointless fighting and voice activated weapons/attacks..

Sorry I expect much more from a gundam series.. and I like just about all of them except G for different reasons. The original was hard to like at times unless you accepted the overarching plot abut the evils of War.. the novels were actually much better than the show.

Gundam Seed is a strange mix of Wing and UC Cundam.. It's airing in Japan right now, and may be here in the states within the next two years officially... there are good fansubs out there already though, and they lack only a few weeks begind the original air dates.


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## Alzrius (Dec 26, 2002)

I do take some mild offense at that. Dragon Ball Z is a great anime. The fighting is hardly pointless, just long and epic, neither of which are bad things. And the "named" attacks are cool, no two ways about it.


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## jdavis (Dec 26, 2002)

The big difference I see is that DragonBall is supposed to be like that, it is designed to be sort of tongue in cheek, the combat isn't pointless at all (neither was the combat in G Gundam for that matter) and there is a huge character arc, it's just meant to be sort of good natured and fun. I don't know what the heck G Gundam is supposed to be, it's sort of a stylized Ninjas on Crack action adventure that ends up with the world being saved by the power of love. I really hated it when the mechs would get Human heads and whirl about like goofy ass tops not to mention the stereotype Gundams or the plot that had more holes than solid sections, or the fact that the first part and the second part didn't really match up at all. DragonBall (in all it's incarnations) is much tighter it's just doesn't take itself as serious as most anime, it's meant to be cartoony not realistic.


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 26, 2002)

Epametheus said:
			
		

> *Is G Gundam quite possibly the dumbest Gundam show ever? *




SHINING FINGER!!!

>Sigh< Some terms don't translate very well into English (assuming that it doesn't sound so stupipd in Japanese). Sounds like E.T.'s super attack before he phones home.


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## Black Omega (Dec 26, 2002)

LrdApoc said:
			
		

> *No offense to the DB Z fans, but I call G Gundam, DRAGONBALL GUNDAM!!! complete with pointless fighting and voice activated weapons/attacks.. *




No offense taken.  If there is one thing DBZ fans are used to, it's insults to their favorite anime, as often as not be people who don't seem to have watched more than bits and pieces of the show.  No offense. 

In any case, I'd disagree.  DBZ has no voice activated attacks that I can recall.  There is extensive use of named attacks, but that's a staple of the fighting  genre in general, from Ranma 1/2 to the Streetfighter video game.  It doesn't matter if it's a kamehameha or a hadoken, if you have a cool energy attack in this genre, it's worth giving a name.

Pointless fights is more a matter of taste.  There was a point to every fight I recall in DBZ.  Whether you consider it a good point or not is up to you.  There was at least one element that was at times pointless but the fighting wasn't it.  If you have an example of a fight you considered pointless, we have more of a basis for discussion, though.


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## hong (Dec 26, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> SHINING FINGER!!!
> *




Somatic component: middle finger extended, pointing upwards.


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## jdavis (Dec 27, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> SHINING FINGER!!!
> 
> >Sigh< Some terms don't translate very well into English (assuming that it doesn't sound so stupipd in Japanese). Sounds like E.T.'s super attack before he phones home. *




So you didn't think it was cool when he graduated to SHINING BURNING FINGERS! What about the speech he made to his hand everytime he used his special attack, apparently his hand is telling him to defeat you.


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 27, 2002)

jdavis said:
			
		

> *So you didn't think it was cool when he graduated to SHINING BURNING FINGERS! What about the speech he made to his hand everytime he used his special attack, apparently his hand is telling him to defeat you. *




It's only cool when the hand is evil and talks back.


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## Enchantress (Jan 5, 2003)

Samnell said:
			
		

> *
> 
> But I can only be a Wingist. I've tried to like other Gundam series. I really have. But they just don't do it for me.*




I completely agree. Gundam Wing is my all time fav. show, but for some reason all the other gundam series just don't do it for me.


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## death tribble (Jan 24, 2003)

*What I Like*

Akira was the first thing I saw and I liked it. Still do. But it gave rise to the Japanese penchant for slime which rather spoiled Princess Monokoe for me.

My brother loved Crying Freeman but the last episodes of that are rubbish.

One thing I cannot get this side of the Atlantic so have to order specially is Ranma 1/2. This is wonderful and I am currently working my way through the 4th series on DVD. Also have the OAV series which has a wonderful Christmas episode.


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## Samnell (Jan 25, 2003)

Hey here's a thread I haven't seen in a month. 



			
				Epametheus said:
			
		

> **Bump?  Bump.*
> 2) Hey, Samnell's got Tsukasa as his avatar now.  Have you seen all of .hack//Sign yet, Sam? *




Yes, several months ago. I'm not sure I cared for the final revelation with regards to Tsukasa. It cohered with what they'd set up, but after all of the trouble and wondering they all did about it it just came across a bit pat. It had that "Oh yeah, by the way..." feeling to it.


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## Mr Fidgit (Jan 25, 2003)

Samnell said:
			
		

> * It had that "Oh yeah, by the way..." feeling to it. *



Trigun was _exactly_ the same way...


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## Chun-tzu (Jan 25, 2003)

Speaking of .hack//Sign, it's coming to Cartoon Network (Toonami) starting February 1. Since I haven't seen it yet, I'm looking forward to it.


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## Sixchan (Jan 25, 2003)

Well, I guess it'll show up over here on CNX next year then.


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