# Best Monk Races?



## CrimsonWineGlass

I'm just curious, what races (LA and non-LA) are best for a monk.  And what type of monk (combat, wise man, etc)


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## Votan

CrimsonWineGlass said:
			
		

> I'm just curious, what races (LA and non-LA) are best for a monk.  And what type of monk (combat, wise man, etc)




Small is not worth it for monks due to less damage, speed and nad grapple checks.  

So I'd tend to prefer a human, an elf or a dwarf.  Human is good for the extra skill point (monks have a great skill list) and dwarf allows 6 CHA in exchange for better CON.  Sure, it is slower but is made up for with the nice dwarf bonuses.  

I have seen an effective half orc build iof you focus massively on strength.


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## Legildur

I would say human, half-orc and dwarf (the saves, man!).

Human for the extra feat and skill points, half-orc for strength focus (grappling, unarmed strike, etc) or dwarf for saving throws and tripping (movement reduction overcome to some degree by monk's enhancement to speed).

An elf can make a useful Dex focussed monk (taking Wpn Finesse and Spring Attack route), but I find them too fragile with the Con penalty.


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## Jhulae

Githzerai


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## hanniball

Legildur said:
			
		

> dwarf (the saves, man!).




Being a Dwarf also opens the door to the Hammerfist feat from Races of Faerun.  The additional .5 str to damage can be quite helpful for a Str-based monk.

Ultimately, though, it's entirely dependant on the build in question.  If you're planning on multi-classing with other base classes, probably Human (though, it still depends on level variation)

Either way...just my 2 cp


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## blargney the second

I think it would be feasible to do an effective goliath monk, but it depends what level you're starting at.


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## Kae'Yoss

I can just say what I like:

Humans - because they're good for nearly everything
Halfling - quite acrobatic and athletic, the save bonus helps. There's a feat (clever wrestler, I think) that lessens the size impact, and with a couple levels of rogue (and ascetic rogue), you should have the damage angle covered. Use slings and shuriken.
Aasimar - Well, you get a Wis bonus. You might want to take a couple of paladin levels, too.

Dwarf - well, the concept surely is weird, but you could make it a "brawler" character with a more practical approach.


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## Legildur

Githzerail also make awesome monks (it is their favoured class, after all) [MM p129]. Racial bonuses of +6 Dex, -2 Int, +2 Wisdom, Darkvision, racial psionics, inertial armor, and spell resistance = class levels +5.  But with a level adjustment of +2.


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## Darklone

The race doesn't matter too much, just don't forget to get at least a decent strength. Dex won't help your AC enough anyway, so if you don't wanna play a halfling monk, forget the Weapon Finesse builds. 

Monks need Wis, Str and Con.


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## smootrk

Thri-kreen with their extra hands.  

A large race would do well with their reach an all.  
Half-Ogre would be good if you can get past some minor penalties, as the STR bonus +6, Darkvision, Reach, and +4 Natural Armor make up for much.  +2LA is all you pay, but if you use UA LA buyout rules (many do), then even this is mitigated somewhat.  They don't strike me as Lawful, but with an interesting back story like being left on the doorstep of the monestary as a newborn, it could be done.


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## Goldmoon

Had a friend try to play a warforged monk and it didnt turn out as nifty as he thought. Avoid it if you can.


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## szilard

Goldmoon said:
			
		

> Had a friend try to play a warforged monk and it didnt turn out as nifty as he thought. Avoid it if you can.




It seems like a good idea until you think about the fact that warforged come with armor and have a bunch of overlapping immunities.

-Stuart


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## szilard

Duergar might be interesting. +1 LA, but they get a psionic reserve - so can take psionic feats - and get expansion and invisibility, both useful to a monk.

-Stuart


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## Stalker0

Githzerai I think are definately the best. Their +2 LA is negated by the fact that everything they get is good for a monk.


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## Particle_Man

I will second the half-orc.  Pump up the str to make up for the medium BAB and lack of easy access to enchantment!


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## RigaMortus2

Warforged w/ Unarmored Body feat make good Monks as well.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae

Votan said:
			
		

> Small is not worth it for monks due to less damage, speed *and nad grapple checks.*




That's just wrong.


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## Kafkonia

szilard said:
			
		

> It seems like a good idea until you think about the fact that warforged come with armor and have a bunch of overlapping immunities.
> 
> -Stuart




According to the FAQ, warforged are only considered to be wearing armour if they take a feat like Mithral or Adamantine Body. Their default status provides an armour bonus, but does not count as wearing armour. So they can be monks, ninjas, etc without a problem.


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## Blightersbane

Imp grapple, earths embrace, imp init & lightening init as soon as you can, a grapplers advantage is to grapple armed opponents before they can attack wear spiked shoulder, knee and elbow to get an extra d6 damage per successful grapple ck (no ac bonus), wep focus-grapple and many more.

I second the Dwarf Monk combo, I tried this with the VoP feat. Nothing stranger than the H-Orc Sorcerer or the Dwarf Monk with VoP and let me tell you role playing a non greedy Dwarf in a gee preaching inner enlightenment and generosity over the pursuit of gold is the making for interesting role playing. Not to mention the mechanical advantages/bonuses Dwarves receive.



Blightersbane


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## Notmousse

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> That's just wrong.



 I think that is some kind of gnome greeting.


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## Notmousse

Get improved initiative!  Nothing's worse than being a monk walking into a fight and being dropped by a hail of arrows because you couldn't get your shields up in time.


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## Votan

Notmousse said:
			
		

> I think that is some kind of gnome greeting.




It is a discovery that 'b' and 'n' are next to each other on the keyboard so bad became a different word.  I meant the -4 for small size which matters alot when youa re aq mobility fighter cruising around the battlefield.


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## The Grackle

A player in my group just made a new half-ogre monk, and I'm looking forward to seeing how it plays out.  I think high Str and Large-sized monks are pretty awesome.  But like anything w/LA, they're fragile at low levels until the higher Con bonus makes up for lost hit dice.


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## Bloodweaver1

Kafkonia said:
			
		

> According to the FAQ, warforged are only considered to be wearing armour if they take a feat like Mithral or Adamantine Body. Their default status provides an armour bonus, but does not count as wearing armour. So they can be monks, ninjas, etc without a problem.



 To add on top of this: 







> Okay, starting from the top:
> 
> Say a warforged is a first level monk
> Warforged Monk (1): Unarmed Strike 1d6, Slam 1d4. If he wants to use the slam and the unarmed strike in the same round, he's got to take the normal penalties for mixing natural and manufacured weapons (-5 to hit, -2 with multiattack)
> 
> and has two battle fists (one for each hand), what is its unarmed damage score?  First off, I'd say (quite firmly) that the benefit of two battlefists do not stack. That is to say he does not get 2 size adjustments, etc. Just one. If, for the sake of appearance, you want your battlefists to be a pair of battlefists that's perfectly cool, but you don't gain the effect twice. Anyway, that said.
> 
> Warforged Monk (1) with Battlefists: Unarmed Strike 1d8, Slam 1d8. Both unarmed attacks and slams now have a +1 enhancement bonus. The warforged is now using the large creature table for monk unarmed damage.
> 
> Same warforged at thrid level likes the damage he is doing and picks Supreme Unarmed Strike for a bit more pain. What is its unarmed damage score?
> You need to be a 4th level monk in order to take Supreme Unarmed Strike, because of the BAB requirement (+3). For the sake of simplicity, we'll say that the DM is a nice guy and lets you take Supreme Unarmed Strike as your lvl 6 monk bonus feat, that way it doesn't mess with the next point, below.
> 
> Warforged Monk (6) with Battlefists and Supreme Unarmed Strike: Unarmed Strike 2d8, Slam 1d8. Both have a +1 enhancement bonus. The warforged is effectivly attacking with their unarmed strike as if they were a 10th level large monk.
> 
> Adventureing is going well. After barely defeating a BBEG it reaches sixth level and comes to realize it needs to do more damage. So it picks up Improved Natural Attack. What is its unarmed damage score?
> 
> Warforged Monk (6) with Battlefists, Supreme Unarmed Strike, and Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike): Unarmed Strike 3d8, Slam 1d8. Both have a +1 enhancement bonus. The warforged is now effectivly attacking with their unarmed strike as if they were a 10th level huge monk.
> 
> After rumaging through the BBEG's treasure chest, it finds a 'Monk's Belt' and puts it on. Finally, what is its umarmed damage score now?
> 
> Warforged Monk (6) with Battlefists, Supreme Unarmed Strike, Improved Natural Attack (Unarmed Strike), and Monk's Belt: Unarmed Strike 4d6, Slam 1d8. Both have a +1 enhancement bonus. The warforged is now effectivly attacking with their unarmed strike as if they were a 14th level huge monk.
> 
> So ultimately what stacks, what doesn't, and how much damage could a sixth level warforged monk do with Flurry of Blows.
> 
> What stacks: Just about everything, other than the dual battlefists (as they're the same item). An argument could be made for the battlefists not stacking with INA because they're both effective size increases, but neither have any notes to the contrary. Of the set, that's the most gray area. Multiple effective size increases.
> 
> As for how much damage the monk could put out? A lot. Assuming they hit, anyway. Assuming they flurry (a better option than including the slam, at this point) and both attacks hit, you'd be looking at 10-50 damage not counting possible strength modifier.
> 
> Which is ridiculous for a 6th level character, frankly. But there you have it.




Here is the actually thread that further discusses on how a 11th lvl monk can do 6d8 base damage with each strike. 

So yea my vote is Warforged. 

-Blood


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## Christian

Goldmoon said:
			
		

> Had a friend try to play a warforged monk and it didnt turn out as nifty as he thought. Avoid it if you can.




If you're playing Eberron (or have those races available), the shifter is a good monk race. +2 Dex, -2 Int and Cha (generally dump stats for a combat monk), and some of the shift types available have great synergy with the monk abilities. (Beasthide, Cliffwalk, and Longstride leap to mind.) Warforged monks can actually be pretty effective, but they're a bit harder to put together, and the -2 Wis is a pain (hurts AC and special attack DCs). Some of their racial abilities overlap with monk abilities as well. (Warforged are some of the only monks who don't get excited about getting Diamond Body.  )


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## Kae'Yoss

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> That's just wrong.




"I don't want to be grappled there!"



			
				Goldmoon said:
			
		

> Had a friend try to play a warforged monk and it didnt turn out as nifty as he thought. Avoid it if you can.




Well, it's a warforged, what did you expect?   Warforged monks are wrong. If they want inner peace or enlightenment, they just go to the garage and have it installed.   

"I want to be one with everything"
"Wireless LAN card coming right up"


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## Darklone

Bloodweaver1 said:
			
		

> To add on top of this:
> 
> Here is the actually thread that further discusses on how a 11th lvl monk can do 6d8 base damage with each strike.
> 
> So yea my vote is Warforged.
> 
> -Blood



Ouch. As a DM, I wouldn't let the size increases stack... yet the rest already is a rather big pain dealer.


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## Quartz

I wouldn't let the Monk's Belt allow the character's monk level to exceed his HD. It's effectively Practiced Spellcaster for monkish multiclassers.


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## ainbimagh

Quartz said:
			
		

> I wouldn't let the Monk's Belt allow the character's monk level to exceed his HD. It's effectively Practiced Spellcaster for monkish multiclassers.




Thats not RAW, but it'd make a fine house rule.


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## JiCi

Half-dragon humans (+3 LA) are quite flavorful, especially if you're using a lung dragon.

Incarnate constructs (HD +2/+3*) make interesting monks, as they have a knack for battering stuff with their fists.

*in _Savage Species_, it's written "LA: as base creature -2", which is odd because most constructs don't have LAs. So, by my rule of thumbs, a Medium incarnate construct has a +2 LA (+1 ability scores / +1 natural armor), while a Large incarnate construct has a +3 LA (+1 ability scores / +1 natural armor / +1 10-foot reach)


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## IcyCool

Notmousse said:
			
		

> I think that is some kind of gnome greeting.




No, no, it's the basic maneuver taught to all gnome martial artists.  It's called, "The Monkey Grabs the Peach!"


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## Thanee

Pit Fiend!

One monk level more or less, doesn't matter much. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Kae'Yoss

IcyCool said:
			
		

> No, no, it's the basic maneuver taught to all gnome martial artists.  It's called, "The Monkey Grabs the Peach!"




 

As the old gnome sensey tells his students: "You must be like the monkey in the pinata: Hiding behind the candy, hoping the kids won't break through with their sticks!"


You don't want to know about the Fist of Fury style.

Master Tang: Prepare the long rubber glove. 
[glove stretching] 
Master Tang: Eeny, meeny, miney, moe - I wonder where my glove will go?


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## IanB

I'll second the half-ogre, that makes a pretty scary grappler.


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## Seeten

I like: Human, Githzerai, and Warforged for monks.


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## pallandrome

Half-Ogre grappler. Grab potion of enlarge. enjoy.


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## Andor

I briefly played a Lizardman Monk. The hefty natural armour bonus and plentiful stat bonuses went a long way towards evening out the LA adjustment. It also happened that we ended up playing through a half-flooded dungeon so the breath-holding and swim bonus came in damm handy.   Plus you have natural attacks to add into your attack progession if you feel like it.


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## javcs

Catfolk would be decent, +1 LA, you can tank Charisma and it'll still be decent, you'll be even faster than a standard monk, with the Dex bonus, you can put a lower score there to boost Str, Con, or Wis, while keeping a decent Dex score, and +1 Natural Armor, with no penalties and a few other miscellaneous bonuses.

Thanee, I'll take your Pit Fiend and raise you a fully advanced 54HD Pit Fiend, or, alternatively, a fully advanced, 66HD Solar.   

Guys, there're probably rules for that somewhere in BoEF (Book of Erotic Fantasy) or whatever it is.


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## Dannyalcatraz

I like the Thri-Kreen for the multiple attacks.

I like the Githzerai with that +6 Dex for +2LA.   I recently ran one that had a Bisento (OA/Rokugan reach weapon) and the feat Pole Fighter (use a pole weapon as a monk weapon)-  Great AC, freaky initiative, 7 AoO's/rd, 10' Reach, & FoB...all with something that starts off with 1d12 base damage.  Factor in his PsyWar levels and the Expansion power...he was doing as much damage as the party barbarian and taking less damage.  For additional fun, he filled his Quiver of Ehlonna with crossbow bolts, javelins and so forth, and worked the artillery angle as well.

Some of the Anthropomorphic Animals make good monks as well- the Anthro Ape has the same Dex bonus as the Githzerai and other goodies as well, for the same +2LA.  Others have bonuses to Str up into double digits.


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## werk

Votan said:
			
		

> I have seen an effective half orc build iof you focus massively on strength.




Ditto, or just really high stats, like many DMs like to use.

My half-orc monk player became intolerable because he'd calculate and recalculate his jump and announce it to the group...at least 5 times a session.  You can jump far, I get it.

Half ogre sounds like fun, I may have to try that.


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## diaglo

PKitty statted up a Grell monk back a few years ago on Dragonsfoot


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## Funkthis

I know it has been mentioned but I ran a half-dragon monk and he was pretty effective.  Str + 8 is nice as well as the other stat bonuses along with the +4 natural armor and some nice immunities (paralysis came up big).  Additionally the elemental immunity (mine was fire) worked really well: Run into the room and grapple the spellcaster/rogue type....wizard casts fireball...poof crispy bad guy.  Even the breath weapon came in handy with dealing with a large number of opponents.  LA + 3 however is pretty hefty and I always wondered how well I would have been doing if I was three lvls higher.


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## Umbran

ainbimagh said:
			
		

> Thats not RAW, but it'd make a fine house rule.





Greetings, *ainbimagh*, and welcome to EN World and our Rules forum.

I ask you to please review the extra notes on civility in this particular forum.  Please pay special attention to the last post in that thread.  We recognize that the dividing line between interpretation of RAW and House Rules is vague, so we ask you not use such language to dismiss the thoughts of your fellow posters.

If you've got questions about this, or any other moderation questions, please feel free to e-mail a moderator.  Our addresses are all found in a thread stickied to the top of the Meta forum.


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## werk

I think maybe a large fire elemental would be a good monk.


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## javcs

werk said:
			
		

> I think maybe a large fire elemental would be a good monk.



That would hurt. Alot.

For a speed based, stealthy scout type monk, mustevals would be pretty good, but you aren't going to be putting boatloads of damage on somebody, except at extreme range (magic missile at will) and that will take a while. Only problem is that they are 2HD outsiders with a rather massive +5 LA, personally I wouldn't put them at that high an LA, but it can be mitigated somewhat through the LA buyback rules from UA.


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## geosapient

javcs said:
			
		

> Guys, there're probably rules for that somewhere in BoEF (Book of Erotic Fantasy) or whatever it is.




I don't believe there rules for 'monkey grabs the peach' in the BoEF. They do have some nice armor in there though (not that a monk would wear it).


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## Dannyalcatraz

> I think maybe a large fire elemental would be a good monk.




I bet Bruce Lee would beg to differ:



> Don't get set into one form, adapt it and build your own, and let it grow, be like water. Empty your mind, be formless, shapeless — like water. If you put water in a cup it becomes the cup, if you put into a bottle it becomes the bottle. You put water into a teapot it becomes the teapot. Now, water can flow or it can crash. Be like water, my friend.
> 
> Bruce Lee - A Warrior's Journey




IOW, a large WATER elemental!


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## Presto2112

IMC I have some small pockets of hobgoblins who have erected monasteries in the past century.  Hobgoblins, flavorwise, seem to fit the bill for the monk class very well.


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## werk

Statting up half-ogre monk now...yummy.


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## infernuspetrefax

half ogre or githzerai is good for +2LA

my personal favorite LA +0 that hasnt been even mentioned is changeling from the MMIII p24. you dont get any material bonuses beyond like +2 to bluff and against mind effecting stuff but just think of the possibility as an assassin... you can easily infiltrate any humanoid-shaped biped society, you could pose as an ambassador or a member of the royal family or just a servant and get lost in a crowd. the object being of course to get close to your mark so that they will trust you in a situation where your alone and unarmed and then......
after you punch him in the throat and hide the body you can become your recent victim and influence city politics or the guards or whatever depending on who you killed.

which is all a LOT more than you can do as a human, dwarf, elf, etc


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## Andras

I had a very effective Changeling monk before we restarted our characters. Monk6/Warshaper4/xxx.


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## Darklone

skirmishing halfling monk from races of the wild


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## JeffJ2112

Try a Kalishtar in Eberron.   I multiclassed it with a Psychic Warrior and used the Monastic Training feat.    The best thing about this character was its armor class.  Inertial armor and shield from the P. W. , the monk AC bonuses and a couple of magic Items and by 13th level my AC was 40.   

Another useful trait, being able to implant Quori Shards in your body.  they are psionic(not effected by anti-magic fields) and they dont use up body slots for magic items.  

With combat reflexs, a high DX and the Stomp power this set up the monk for lots of Att of Op  Ops.


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## Dannyalcatraz

I won't reiterate my love of Githzerai monks and oversized monks, but there are good ways to be a small monk too.

If you're a small monk- say, a Halfling- go with a Dex/Wis build.  Use ranged weapons as much as possible- the Quiver of Ehlonna should be among your first magical acquisitions.  The Halfling will get a bonus with almost every Monk ranged weapon.  Your job will be to help control the battlespace via ranged pokery, disrupting the spellcasters and softening the meleers before they get to your front line.

Instead of going for grappling, max out your Stunning Fist.

And go for trips.  A prone foe is an easier target for everyone in your party.

In addition, the more supplements you have access to, the more fun you have.  In DCv1, for instance, you find Ring the Golden Bell, which lets you burn Stunning Fist attempts to deliver your unarmed strikes- and anything stacked on them- at range.  This is especially cool if you're playing a multiclassed Monk/Sorc (via Ascetic Mage feat).


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## Vykarius

CrimsonWineGlass said:


> I'm just curious, what races (LA and non-LA) are best for a monk.  And what type of monk (combat, wise man, etc)



1/2 Ogre Monk

For a strength based monk, I would go with 1/2 Ogre. ECL is only +1 and you get +6 to strength, +4 Natural Armor bonus, 10' reach, you do large unarmed strike damage. You can take the feat   [FONT=&quot]Improved Natural Attack [/FONT]which improves natural weapon damage to make a large unarmed damage even another size category better. Take the Large and in charge feat from Draconomicon and combat reflexes bonus feat and make it hard for your foe to even get to you to attack you! Later Improved Trip and you are a melee nightmare swinging fists that are like beer kegs from 10 feet away! I would multiclass it with Kensai to enhance your unarmed strikes to your custom way (Holy and bane mods come to mind), and maybe a few Tattooed Monk levels for a tattoo or 2. Tattooed Monk stacks with monk levels for AC, better movement rate and unarmed damage so no worries there, and both kensai & tattooed monk allow free return to advance monk levels w/o restriction. 
My Half-Ogre Monk is a nasty attitude 500 lb pugilist patterned after former UFC fighter Tank Abbot. Always talking trash and bragging with no respect for opponents. Thoughts?


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## Shin Okada

Even though Monk class has some nifty class features and better than descent skills, it is still a melee combatant class. So, strength is still the most important ability. If you can't hit and damage opponents well, opponents do not need to worry about you.

And even if you have maxed out your strength, you may still have hard time hitting opponents, due to crappy LA. So I don't recommend LA races without enough Str bonus, such as Aasimar.

So, I say either LA +0 race with high strength (Half-Orc or even Orc) or, some nice Large high strength race with acceptable LA, such as Centaur or Minotaur.


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## Jaysyn

Jhulae said:


> Githzerai




Agreed!


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## Vykarius

Shin Okada said:


> Even though Monk class has some nifty class features and better than descent skills, it is still a melee combatant class. So, strength is still the most important ability. If you can't hit and damage opponents well, opponents do not need to worry about you.
> 
> And even if you have maxed out your strength, you may still have hard time hitting opponents, due to crappy LA. So I don't recommend LA races without enough Str bonus, such as Aasimar.
> 
> So, I say either LA +0 race with high strength (Half-Orc or even Orc) or, some nice Large high strength race with acceptable LA, such as Centaur or Minotaur.





Hence my suggestion of half-ogre. LA+1 +6 to strength 10' reach +4 Natural Armor Better LA than Minotaur or Centaur, higher strength, reach too. At 1st level a 24 strength would be quite effective with 10' reach.


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## Herobizkit

Half-Fiend Ogre Mage Monks are terrifying.

I am also playing a Gestalted Duergar Monk//PsyWar which is dam nasty when you use the Expanded Knowledge feat to learn Energy Ray.   You could build a whole schtick around the Energy Ray power and metapsionic feats...

Ha-DOOOOO-ken!


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## Cephid

*W A R F O R G E D ! ! !*

If you want to do good damage as a monk you need size increases!

I had a build that went something like this:

Worforged
Monk
Wizard
Enlightened Fist
Warshaper

Important notes:
Monk 11 (from monk and enlightended fist)
Superior unarmed strike (damage as monk +4 levels. Tome of battle)
Monks belt (+5 levels. Definately increases beyond HD.)
=2d10 base damage.

Improved natural attack +1 size
Battle fists +1 size
Greater mighty wallop spell (1hr/level. +1 size/4 caster levels)
Warshaper +1 size
Enlarge person +1 size

By around level 12 you have 7 size increases.
Base damage:2d10>4d8>6d8>9d8>12d8>16d8>24d8*>28d8* base damage. (126 average)

And you can use touch spells when you full attack. and basic spells like Mage armour, shield & mirror image so you can actually survive. 

Imagine a little old man walking along, getting angry and putting his fist through a castle wall!


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## Vykarius

Cephid said:


> *W A R F O R G E D ! ! !*
> 
> If you want to do good damage as a monk you need size increases!
> 
> I had a build that went something like this:
> 
> Worforged
> Monk
> Wizard
> Enlightened Fist
> Warshaper
> 
> Important notes:
> Monk 11 (from monk and enlightended fist)
> Superior unarmed strike (damage as monk +4 levels. Tome of battle)
> Monks belt (+5 levels. Definately increases beyond HD.)
> =2d10 base damage.
> 
> Improved natural attack +1 size
> Battle fists +1 size
> Greater mighty wallop spell (1hr/level. +1 size/4 caster levels)
> Warshaper +1 size
> Enlarge person +1 size
> 
> By around level 12 you have 7 size increases.
> Base damage:2d10>4d8>6d8>9d8>12d8>16d8>24d8*>28d8* base damage. (126 average)
> 
> And you can use touch spells when you full attack. and basic spells like Mage armour, shield & mirror image so you can actually survive.
> 
> Imagine a little old man walking along, getting angry and putting his fist through a castle wall!




Sounds cool but the whole Eberron mechanical thing as a world turns me away. Guess I like my Fantasy RPG less techno.


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## Elethiomel

Does Enlarge Person even work on Warforged?


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## Jhaelen

Elethiomel said:


> Does Enlarge Person even work on Warforged?



Nope. They're of the type construct (living construct), not humanoid.


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## Shin Okada

Vykarius said:


> Hence my suggestion of half-ogre. LA+1 +6 to strength 10' reach +4 Natural Armor Better LA than Minotaur or Centaur, higher strength, reach too. At 1st level a 24 strength would be quite effective with 10' reach.




Yeah. Half-Ogre is good, too.

But there is one thing. According to official FAQ, a monster-monk can use it's natural attacks (as secondary weapons) when using monk's unarmed strikes. Thus, a centaur monk can make unarmed strike array + 2 hoof attacks. A Minotaur Monk can make unarmed strike array + a gore attack.

Those 2 races have better Con mod and it will matter much at higher level. Also, Centaur's speed is attractive. And Minotaur's Natural Cunning is wonderful.


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## Cephid

Jhaelen said:


> Nope. They're of the type construct (living construct), not humanoid.




Ok, then use polymorph for the last size increase. As you are a construct I think you can poly into some pretty rad things like Iron golumns etc.

Or just walk around medium size like a harmless old man and spinning hook kick someone for 24d8 damage (+the touch spell).


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