# [M&M] Shadowrun [Recruiting]



## perrinmiller (May 27, 2010)

After looking for months (here and elsewhere) for a Shadowrun game with no success, I decided to ask about interest.  I played 1st edition a little bit a long time ago and wanted to try the game again.  I have found some players, but there doesn't appear to be any GMs around.

Since I haven't the Shadowrun experience to GM with those rules, I don't feel comfortable even giving it a shot with a friendly crowd of players.  But recently I have played somed20 Modern and I have done some DMing under 3.5Ed D&D I could maybe adapt to running a campaign under d20 Modern.  This gave me the idea about taking a some Shadowrun adventures and just run them under d20 Rules using the d20 Modern Core, Cybernet, Urban Arcana, D&D Core, and Future books to retool the encounters.  Using the Shadowrun source books only for Setting information.

Any players interested?  How about a more experienced GM?


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## HolyMan (May 28, 2010)

Shadowrun 1ste now that takes me back. I remember it coming out and my players not wanting to play D&D (back then we played basic from the boxed sets) and it was all about going out and shotting up a place.

My DM experience is small in Shadowrun but I did love the setting and rules system. Now d20 mordern I have never played so I'm out there as well. 

Just wanted to drop in to say good luck and if you don't find players it might only be because alot of games have started up lately. Because Shadowrun is an awesome world as everyone knows.

HM


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## Voda Vosa (May 31, 2010)

I'm up for it. I've moderate experience with d20 modern, having played over 5 or more games, and DMing two. I must also say that it's an easy system to learn, rules are free access and getting started in the system is easy.
As for Shadowrun, well your speaking bananas to me, know nothing about it, but perhaps wikipedia could share some light over that.


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## WarShrike (May 31, 2010)

Same as HM here, i know Shadowrun very well, 2nd edition. D20 Modern is something of a mystery for me though.


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## perrinmiller (May 31, 2010)

d20 Modern uses the similar rules with D&D3.5 so it's not a huge leap for some people to cross-over.  I am comfortable playing it after only a couple of months.  Some skills have changed a little compared to D&D.  

However with the Urban Arcana supplement it can be combined with D&D.  I was toying with the idea of running a D&D campaign via Urban Arcana, allowing mundane humans (with d20 Modern classes and gear) to cross-over into fantasy land.  Figured ammo scarcity would be a pain though, unless the characters could go back and forth.  

Trouble with Shadowrun is that I have been able to find a few players hear and there, but no GM.  Having only played 1st Ed once, I don't know the system well enough to try my hand at that.


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## HolyMan (May 31, 2010)

Looks like someone made a Shadowrun d20 rules set google it and you'll see. I also found a pdf.

Guess the internet does have everything.

EDIT: wow they have a Corporate Zombie class


HM


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## perrinmiller (May 31, 2010)

In searching for the Shadowrun d20 rules that HM found, I found (on this site no less) that many people have thought of this idea and discussed it about 5-6 years ago.  There are rules, but they are not perfect, mainly because SR doesn't use the level system and does its magic differently.

While I think the idea of running a Shadowrun setting with d20 rules would work for people familiar with d20/D&D (which there are many here), anyone having played Shadowrun would probably consider it a poor substitute.

But I also think anyone on this site that plays D&D3.5 could adapt to d20 Modern pretty easily, probably easier that going to D&D4Ed.  Mixing the Modern rules and D&D concepts with Urban Arcana would capture some of the flavor of the setting, but it would not be the same as Shadowrun.

My idea was not to actually convert the rules though, but to just rework the encounters in some of their published adventures using d20 rules and sources to come up with something similar from the GM side.  Heavy work for the GM, but players would only need to know about the d20 rules.  Setting information would be provided as any campaign would do.

@Voda Vosa: No actual knowledge of Shadowrun could actually be a good thing, since d20 Modern would be the rules anyway.

@Warshrike & HolyMan: Biggest thing for d20 Modern is the change in classes for modern play, but many of the skills and feats (sometimes called Talents) are exactly the same as D&D3.5 (which I know you both play), so not a huge learning curve at all. 

So if there is interest I will consider it some more.  Since I play with all of you already, I was hoping for some new people to poke their noses in too.  I will give it some more time as it hasn't been a week yet.


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## Voda Vosa (May 31, 2010)

M&M is another option if you don't want to use level ups in the classical way, besides allowing a high degree of customization to the characters. Just pick a low power level if the characters are going to be regular folk, and you are done! I have experience with it as well, I even made some automated excel sheets for it.


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## perrinmiller (May 31, 2010)

I will take a look. M&M is "Mutants and Masterminds" Correct?

BTW, since you never actually launched your Chronos Sphere game are considering trying to run a different d20 Modern game?


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## Voda Vosa (May 31, 2010)

Yep.mutants and masterminds. 2nd edition.
Chronos sphere was a good game, don't know why it didn't catch up player's attention. Being a DM of a setting of which I know nothing is not something I feel comfortable with.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 1, 2010)

Sorry I was meaning about you GMing a d20 Modern game, any setting that you are comfortable with.  I did express interest on your Chronos Sphere recruitment thread when I first got here, but you never replied back at the time.  I think you had already let the idea go by then.

I would be willing to learn M&M if you could start something and we can get a few more players.

There are a few d20 Modern games, but not that many players I guess.   With Firewall and Dept 7, three of us are the same.  

[sblock=BTW]Herobizkit just rolled his Initiative, so it's just Ming remaining before Vanor can move us along. Personally I would rather Vanor jsut roll all of the Initiative checks and just move us along, but...  [/sblock]


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## Walking Dad (Jun 1, 2010)

Would be very interested in a M&M variant of this. M&M has great / adaptable rules. I played the 2.0 variant of ShadowRun.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 1, 2010)

@VV; I took a look at M&M and it looks fun all by itself. Any thoughts?

_*Walking Dad*_: What exactly strikes your fancy, playing M&M or Shadowrun with the M&M conversion? Unless you are willing to GM the Shadowrun with M&M conversion that option is probably out.  While I took a look at the M&M Core book, it is enough different that I don't think I could GM Shadowrun scenarios with that Rule Set.  Honestly I would rather just give M&M a try instead.

I know some players are interested in Shadowrun with Shadowrun rules, if we could find a GM that would be cool.  Anyone interested in giving it a shot? I know myself and one other player on these boards would be interested, and with one or two more we could start something.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 1, 2010)

Would love some superhero action 

Do you have the actual (2nd) edition?


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## perrinmiller (Jun 1, 2010)

Yes I do. Perhaps we should start a new thread for discussing a 2nd Ed M&M game.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 1, 2010)

Would be interesting. All my M&M games died shortly after they began. I have 0 experience DMing the system, just played it  3 or 4 times, made 5 or 6 characters, but that's all.
That said I love the syustem and would love to play, even make characters for others


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## perrinmiller (Jun 1, 2010)

VV; I noticed that you were the only person who responded on Friday's M&M game.  I took a peek and was quickly lost.  Reminded me of when I took my first look at Coreline: Firewall.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 1, 2010)

Yes, it happens often to inexperienced users, I gave him some advise, he did the changes but I'm affraid his idea didn't bite. However, that seems as a fine game to play M&M, plus you have a willing DM. I already made a character, you could all join and that would be two pigeons with one stone.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 1, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Yes I do. Perhaps we should start a new thread for discussing a 2nd Ed M&M game.




Give a link and I will be there


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 2, 2010)

Here's Friday's game thread, pop in! http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/277157-malazan-book-fallen-recruiting-m-m-2nd-ed.html


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## perrinmiller (Jun 3, 2010)

I think he meant starting a new thread to discuss specifically interest in an M&M game.  

The past two days have been very busy RL, just struggling to keep up on my active games.  I am having to generate a few new Star Wars characters and some DM stuff so I haven't been able to give this any more consideration.

If things are slow for the weekend I might be able to get back to it before Monday.  But really my mind has left the Shadowrun option unless other people start popping in here.

As for M&M, trying to sort out Friday's game recruitment background will take me more time than I have in the next few days, maybe after the weekend.  I will consider opening a new thread for just M&M interest if I cannot get myself interested in Friday's game.  I would like to try something straight up first maybe, just to learn the system, since it is a little different than other d20 games.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 3, 2010)

That sounds very good. My M&M experience (besides reading the books) are just one and a half PbP campaigns and some real life sparring fights using sample characters.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 3, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> I think he meant starting a new thread to discuss specifically interest in an M&M game.
> 
> The past two days have been very busy RL, just struggling to keep up on my active games.  I am having to generate a few new Star Wars characters and some DM stuff so I haven't been able to give this any more consideration.
> 
> ...




As Friday said himself, it is not needed to know the setting a lot, think of a peloponese/ medieval fantasy game using the M&M rules. WD got the point with his sorcerer. As for the recruitment thread, the story he posted is quite interesting and enjoyable to read, got me right in =P 
So take your time, I think you'll like it once you read it.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 3, 2010)

If I may, perrin, I'd strongly suggest dropping the "basic" classes and use only "prestige classes" for the characters. Shadowrun was well known for its solid Archetypes, though making a character from scratch was always more fun (you mean I can pick to start as a multi-millionaire?! Sweet!).  I would be interested in seeing if you'd be porting over the chargen from Shadowrun. 

[Edit] Gah, never mind... you already changed systems.  *LOL*


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## perrinmiller (Jun 4, 2010)

I think I have a d20 Modern source called Classically Modern that has the D&D classes in it.  That what you mean?

Also the Chargen, is that the Shadowrun d20 Core rules that HM mentioned finding on the internet.
Link: Shadowrun d20 Core Rules

I haven't abandoned the idea yet, but just not sure on interest at this time.  Still no GM and only a few players.  If the other d20 games that we are playing stall out and cannot continue, perhaps things will change.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 8, 2010)

After delving into M&M 2nd Ed, I can see the idea of using those rules with a Shadowrun setting being a good idea.  Would just need to figure out the races issues and their cost.  Might be easier than what I was thinking about before.  After getting the hang of the other M&M game I might look into it some more.  Wondering how to handle decking though.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 8, 2010)

In our real live games, we did always the hacking of screen. With only one decker in the group, each decking was the begin of a solo session, with only the decker and the GM playing.


BTW, you should change d20 modern to M&M 2nd here:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/5194612-post687.html


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## perrinmiller (Jun 8, 2010)

WD; Changed it, and the title of this thread as well.

Having only actually seen the Decking in Shadowrun played out once, I am not really even comfortable how it works anyway.  With a Computer Use skill, it can be wrapped up in one skill roll, but then it kind of makes being a Decker not that much fun.

But if the Decking encounter was a series of rolls, where you could apply your skill and a power or two, then it could be done quickly in 1-2 posts and provide some benefits for being a Decker rather than just a Computer Hacker.  Probably have to spend PP on a Deck to get those Hacking powers.

Another similar Archetype Character is the Rigger.  Besides being a technical geek, they control vehicles via implants.  Haven't seen how that would work in M&M.  Spend PP on devices again?

At least the Magic would be the easy part in M&M.  I assume guns and cybernetics wouldn't be hard either.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 8, 2010)

For Riggers, look at the Datalink power with the Machine Control Power Feat.

Guns are for the most part just equipment. (There is a great equipment section in the Agents of Freedom Sourcebook.)

Cybernetics and biotech descriptors for powers (Protection = Orthoskin, ...)

For magic I would suggest the Sorcery Magic variant in Warriors and Warlocks, to simulate the mental damage from casting. (It is just Magic with an autohitting Fatigue effect, reducing the cost from 1 / 2 to 2 / 1.)


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## perrinmiller (Jun 8, 2010)

Sounds like it is all readily possible then, huh?
Hmm, don't have Warriors and Warlocks.  Is readily available online?


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## Walking Dad (Jun 8, 2010)

You can buy the pdf here:

Warriors & Warlocks - Green Ronin | EN World PDF Store

As the sorcery power above is just the Magic Power with the Flaw: Side Effect (Fatigue, Always Occurs) –2, buying the book just for it is a bit expansive. But it is a great book and I really recommend it. The flaw in it is just that M&M 3e will be out later this year.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 10, 2010)

Decking could be done as a team sport, like the Matrix movie.  Hell, it could be an adventure in and of itself.  I don't know anyone that enjoyed the Decking part of Shadowrun; while it was innovative, it was essentially a solo dungeon with a computerized avatar.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 10, 2010)

Herobizkit said:


> Decking could be done as a team sport, like the Matrix movie...




I could see a Decker only game... but that would miss many 'classic' ShadowRun elements.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 10, 2010)

Honestly, the mystique of decking never really got to me as a player, but then my gaming group jumped ship quickly to Cyberpunk instead.  Something about calling the combat rules "A Friday Night Firefight" just seemed to appeal more to our personalities (bunch of Navy guys, so go figure).

So after a hectic week of busting my ass to finish up 3 SWSE characters and a essentially 2 SWd20 characters (I could decide which build to use) I have found myself caught up on my DM duties and prep work.  I have some time to relax and really think about this.  

So let's see here.  We have potentially 2-3 players, maybe more if Warshike or even Friday are interested.  We have an unqualified GM (myself) and a cool setting.

I think I know a way to test drive the idea.  Shadowrun has a newbie encounter called Food Fight at the Stuffer Shack.  It was an encounter (1st Edition) that was designed as an introduction to the setting and rules for both new players and GMs.  *Who's interested in giving it a shot under M&M 2ed rules?*


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 10, 2010)

I do


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## Walking Dad (Jun 10, 2010)

I would be interested, too. Maybe playing a Ki Adept.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 11, 2010)

I worked the Archer for Malazan, but also gave this some more thought today too.

I looked over the Food Fight scenario and I need to decide PL first.  Maybe 5 with 75PP for players and bad guys PL3-4, dunno.

Then wondering about applying the different races for characters, in SR it costs you points to be non-human.  Choices, Elf, Dwarf, Orc (so half-orc), and Troll (more like a half-ogre).  I think Warriors and Warlock has some of this.

Next I need to try and make the NPCs from their SR stats next.  This will take some time as I need to refresh my memory on SR rules too.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 11, 2010)

I would prefer PL 6 with 90 PP.

The sample soldier is PL 5 and the SWAT Officer is PL 6 in the supporting class chapter. So I think PL 6 for the main characters of the story fits better, IMHO.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 11, 2010)

Just to clarify - are you planning on running superheroes in a Shadowrun setting, or are you trying to replicate Shadowrun Archetypes using True20?

I know that M&M is "powered" by True20, but wouldn't it be simpler to use the True20 rules with all the M&M stuff cut out rather than do the cutting yourself?


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## Walking Dad (Jun 11, 2010)

I wouldn't say M&M is powered by True 20. Both are d20 based and use a similar damage save system. That is all. (Besides being from the same people.)
One is class the other point based. One effect and one specific powers based.

For True 20 you would have to add complex rules for Cybernetics, Shadowrun like magic, ... .

In M&M, you can just build, using the core rules and just add a 'cybernetic' or 'magic' descriptor. I also like PL caps more than levels with rigid structures for skill points, how many feats, starting feats, level based saves...

It can be done in True 20, but I don't think it would be easier.

That said, I would play either system, but preferring M&M.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 12, 2010)

I second Wakling dead. I mean Walking Dad =)


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## perrinmiller (Jun 12, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> I would prefer PL 6 with 90 PP.
> 
> The sample soldier is PL 5 and the SWAT Officer is PL 6 in the  supporting class chapter. So I think PL 6 for the main characters of the  story fits better, IMHO.



 OK, PL6 then.  I hadn't looked in the supporting character section yet,  probably should have.



Herobizkit said:


> Just to clarify - are you planning on running superheroes in a Shadowrun setting, or are you trying to replicate Shadowrun Archetypes using True20?



No Superheroes, build characters similar to SR Archetypes to capture the flavor of the setting.  After finally seeing what Friday was doing with Malazan  it made more sense.  He is doing something similar, running a D&D  style game with the M&M Rule Set.  It actually simplifies things, at  the expense of just forgetting about the minutia.  Don't worry about  carrying all that extra little equipment and many different stats are  just tossed out.  Found a healing potion, great.  When you use it, it  just puts you back to normal, since you don't have HP, you don't need to  worry how many it cured.



Walking Dad said:


> For True 20 you would have to add complex  rules for Cybernetics, Shadowrun like magic, ... .
> 
> In M&M, you can just build, using the core rules and just add a  'cybernetic' or 'magic' descriptor. I also like PL caps more than levels  with rigid structures for skill points, how many feats, starting feats,  level based saves...



After going through the Shadowrun d20 Core Rules Conversion, essentially that's  what they did.  Used XP to buy everything.  It was fairly complicated  and then Magic wasn't really working the same in the end.  Throwing in all of the  rules from different d20 sources you can cover Magic and Cybernetics,  but it is complicated and doesn't have the Shadowrun flavor at all.   After delving a little into M&M, I saw exactly what WD was talking  about and it would appear to be more fun and easier to do.

The feat Improved Initiative is a good example.  For an  Adept it is labeled as Magical enhancement.  For a Street Samurai it is a  Cybernetic Implant.  Maybe for normal people, they cannot get it any other way.  Riggers would invest in Device Powers.  

To me Deckers are the one where it would possibly be tricky, mainly because I was not a fan of them (translation: little ignorant of them) and due to their Solo nature. I think they would have to invest in a Device Power that has certain Skill-like powers that are specifically for running the matrix.  Essentially boiling down decking into a series of skill challenges, instead of a mini-scenario.  In the PBP environment, that would keep the rest of the group from being left out too long, since those Skill checks could be done in 2-3 exchanges.

But this idea is a work in progress and we would love to have you join in Hero, and you input can help us refine the idea. Also I have the impression that you and WD have more experience with SR than I do as well.  I may be only one step up the ladder from VV and he had to Wiki SR to know what we are talking about.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 12, 2010)

Heh, I don't mind helping out at all.  Shadowrun was the first "modern" RPG I ever played, and I even own a 3rd edition Shadowrun Core sourcebook.  I fondly remember the "Food Fight" scenario.  Of course, what I DON'T own is a M&M book.  I may have to 'procure' one somehow...


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## perrinmiller (Jun 15, 2010)

Hey All, I worked up an Archetype for Street Samurai, based on PL-6 (90PP).  It is constructed using the SR 4thEd Archetype as best I could.
[sblock=Street Samurai]Abilities (24PP)
Str 16, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10

Saves (8PP)
Tough +5, Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +4

Combat (14PP)
Initiative +12 (2PP from Feats)
Defense +6/3FF (8PP +2 Dodge from Feats)
Attack +3 (6PP) 
+5 Unarmed
+5 Automatics
+7 with Smartgun

Skills (14PP)
Knowledge (Safe Houses) 3 ranks
Knowledge (Firearms) 6 ranks
Knowledge (Zen Meditation) 3 ranks
Acrobatics 6 ranks
Climb 6 ranks
Gather Info 4 ranks
Diplomacy 4 ranks
Drive 4 ranks
Notice 8 ranks
Stealth 4 ranks
Swim 6 ranks
Language (English) 1 rank
Language (Japanese) 1 rank

Feats/Powers (30PP)
Cyber Eyes: Low-light/Darkvision/Flash Supression (3PP)
Wired Reflexes (Imp Initiative 2) (2PP)
Wired Reflexes (+2 Reflex) (spent above)
High Pain Threshold (+2 Tough & Fort) (spent above)
Guts (+2 Will) (Spent Above)
Muscle Replacement (+4 Str) (spent above)
Dermal Plating (+2 Def) (spent above)
Dodge +2 (2PP)
Contacts (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (SMGs +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Unarmed +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Swords +2) (1PP)
Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1PP)
Precise Shot (Smartlink) (1PP)
Device 3 (Smartlinked SMG) (9PP)
- Blast 6 (12pp)
- Accurate 2 (+4)(2pp)
- Precise (1pp)
Equipment +8 (8PP)[/sblock]
Let me know what you think.

I also worked up something for the SR Meta-humans, based on translating SR, not using Warriors and Warlocks (which might make more sense).
Orks (4PP) Con +3, Cha -1, Str +2, Int -1, Low-light vision
Dwarves (6PP) Con +1, Dex -1, Str +2, Wis +1, Darkvision, +2 Fort vs. Poison only, Feature 1 (longevity)
Elves (7PP) Dex +2, Cha +2, Low-light vision, Attractive, Feature 1 (longevity)
Trolls (13PP) Growth 4 (Bonus Str +8, Con +4, Large creature), Dex -2, Cha -2, Int -2, Darkvision, Def +1


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## Walking Dad (Jun 16, 2010)

Races look good. Here is how W&W simulates dwarf physiology:



> Density 1 (Continuous; Permanent; Innate)
> Feature 1 (Longevity)
> Shrinking 1 (Compression, Continuous; Permanent; Innate)
> Super-Senses 1 (Infravision)




Your Street Samurai build breaks the caps. 
At +7 & Blast Dam 6 = PL 6.5.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 16, 2010)

Thanks WD.  I did see that in W&W afterward, but SR's vision of the meta-humans are different.  I am not sure which would be better.

I realized that the Attack vs. Damage is maybe off.  I am not sure how that works yet, as I barely know what I am doing so far.  What would a normal SMG do?

Maybe a smartlinked gun is a Device 1, allowing the Accuracy and Precision.  Can you put regular feats on the Device?  Perhaps Precise Shot only applies with the Smartlinked weapon.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 16, 2010)

From Agents of Freedom


```
[FONT=Courier New]Weapon              Damage     Critical  Range Increment  Size  Cost
Submachine Gun  +4 Ballistic      20         40 ft.      Medium  12[/FONT]
```

Actually, I would buy is as a 'Cyberware Container' and make a 
Drawback: Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1PP) and Precise Shot (Smartlink) (1PP) only work with guns with smartlink. (Total cost 1PP)

And the gun would be equipment, not a device. with the charge of 1 extra equipment point cost for the smartlink.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 16, 2010)

Okay, that sounds better.  How does that affect Attack vs. Damage?  Does equipment count?


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## Walking Dad (Jun 16, 2010)

PL would be unaffected by my above suggestions. But there are optiolnal rules in "Agents of Freedom" to allow weapons to break the PL cap a bit. W&W also has rules to limit max rank for sneak attack and similar feats, but to allow them to break PL. I could look up the specifics, if needed.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 16, 2010)

OK.  Found what you are talking about in Agents of Freedom.  Firearms range from +3 to +7 on the damage.  Having a High attack would seem appropriate for a Shadowrunner with a smartlinked gun.  

So base Attack of +4, then Attack Specializations 2 (Automatic Weapons) so +8 Attack with an SMG.  SMG damage rating is +4, balancing at PL6.0.  But same guy gets an Assault Rifle at +5, then he is at PL6.5?  What about a masterwork weapons (+1 to Attack)? They also can bump it higher.  I get it for Superhero Powers for game balance, but for equipment things get fuzzy.

I do see that using a rocket launcher with +10 damage would be unfair to for a PL 6 character with a base Attack of +5.  Makes some sense to apply an attack penalty for using an unfamiliar weapon.

What about Melee weapons?  Sword +3 damage, then you add in Str Modifier right?  That would be +6, thus he cannot have a +6 or higher Attack.  Also to use the Str modifier, do you have to add the Mighty Feat 3 to get full advantage of Str Bonus?  That seems weird.  Makes sense for Comp Longbow's in D&D needing it designed to take advantage of different strength, but a sword or club?

I dunno, maybe the it's the balancing concept that's getting me.  Maybe it is artificial to get things balanced and it's not supposed to be based on reality.  The M&M rules are supposed to be comic book like.

I am hoping to learn this more by playing Malazan, but I have the impression we are playing a little loose with the rules in Friday's game.

Edit:  OK looking at the Mastermind Manual on some optional rules, it would appear that in a setting with more equipment usage than supernatural powers, you can skip the calculation to balance Attack vs. Defense.  But you add in Weapon and Armor Proficiencies to compensate as well.  I will take another swing at the Street Samurai.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 16, 2010)

I meant the boxed text on page 16.

Melee weapons are bult on the base of the 'Strike' power. It needs mighty to add str bonus. All melee weapons have to have migty to make sense (but not the monofilament whip, so needing mighty to make a difference makes sense in this context).


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## perrinmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Alright, took another swing.  It looks more like a Shadowrun Character. 

I lumped some of the Feats into packages. For example you can easily see how Wired Reflexes would work at level 1 based on level 2.
I added the Equipment. +1 EP for the smartlink connections.
I am still fuzzy on applying the cost of the Mighty Feature.  The Katana (used Bastard Sword for dmg & cost) is 6EP.  I added Mighty for free, but not sure that's how it works.

[sblock=Street Samurai ver2]Abilities (22PP)
Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10

Saves (8PP)
Tough +3, Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +4

Combat (16PP)
Initiative +11 (+8 from Feats)
Defense +6/2FF (8PP +2 Dodge from Feats)
Attack +4 (8PP)

Skills (14PP)
Knowledge (Safe Houses) 3 ranks
Knowledge (Firearms) 6 ranks
Knowledge (Zen Meditation) 3 ranks
Acrobatics 6 ranks
Climb 6 ranks
Gather Info 4 ranks
Diplomacy 4 ranks
Drive 4 ranks
Notice 8 ranks
Stealth 4 ranks
Swim 6 ranks
Language (English) 1 rank
Language (Japanese) 1 rank

Feats/Powers (30PP)
Cyber Eyes: Low-light/Darkvision/Flash Supression (3PP)
Wired Reflexes Level 2:
- Improved Initiative 2 (2PP)
- Reflex Saves +4 (spent above)
- Dodge +2 (2PP)
- Quick Draw 2 (2PP)
Cyberware smartlink (3PP)
- Drawback (only works with Smartlinked gear) (-1pp)
- Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Precise Shot (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Accuracy 1 (+2 Attack) (1pp)
- AR assisted Driving 1 (+2 Drive Skill) (1pp)
High Pain Threshold (+2 Tough & Fort) (spent above)
Guts (+2 Will) (Spent Above)
Muscle Replacement (+4 Str) (spent above)
Dermal Plating (+2 Def) (spent above)
Contacts (1PP)
Archaic Weapon Proficiency (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Martial Artist (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Specialization 1 (SMGs +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Pistols +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Swords +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Unarmed +2) (1PP)
Equipment +9 (9PP) (=30EP) 
- Smartlinked SMG (+4 Ballistic) (13EP)
- Smartlinked Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (9EP)
- Katana Mighty (+4 Slashing) (6EP)
- Motorcycle With Smartlink connection(10EP)
- Armored Vest (+4 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)[/sblock]*
EDIT: WD; Do you mind working up a Combat Mage?  You have a much better handle on the Magic stuff.  I am going to try a Troll Enforcer next.

*


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## Herobizkit (Jun 17, 2010)

I'm really bad at the crunchy bits, so I'm going to let you two go at 'er and watch from the sidelines.


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## Insight (Jun 17, 2010)

I might like to throw my Cybermage Helmet into this.  Any objections?  I'm a big fan of M&M and I can't get anyone to play it anymore.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 17, 2010)

Welcome, Insight.

I took a swing at Troll Enforcer.

[sblock=Troll Enforcer]Troll Meta-Human (13PP)
- Growth 4 (Str +8*, Con +4, +1 Reach, +5ft move, Large Size)
- * Strength bonus doesn't apply to Climb & Swim checks
- Int -2, Cha -2, Dex -2
- Darkvision

Abilities (28PP)
Str 28, Dex 12, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10

Saves (0PP)
Tough +8, Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +1

Combat (8PP)
Initiative +9 (+8 from Feats) 
Defense +4/2FF (0PP +2 Dodge Feat)
Attack +4 (8PP)

Skills (15PP)
Knowledge (Safe Houses) 2 ranks
Knowledge (Mafia Politics) 2 ranks
Knowledge (Gang Turf) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Gambling places) 6 ranks
Bluff 4 ranks
Diplomacy 2 ranks
Craft (Forgery) 6 ranks
Gamble 8 ranks
Intimidation 6 ranks
Drive 4 ranks
Notice 5 ranks
Sleight of Hand 6 ranks
Stealth 5 ranks

Feats/Powers (26PP)
Wired Reflexes 2: (8PP Total)
- Improved Initiative 2 (2pp)
- Reflex Saves +4 (2pp)
- Dodge +2 (2pp)
- Quick Draw 2 (2pp)
Cyberware smartlink (3PP)
- Drawback (only works with Smartlinked gear) (-1pp)
- Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Precise Shot (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Accuracy 1 (+2 Attack) (1pp)
- AR assisted Driving 1 (+2 Drive Skill) (1pp)
Home Ground (+2 Skills related to home turf) (1PP)
Toughness (+2 Tough & Defense) (Spent Above)
Contacts (1PP)
Mafia Ettiquette (+2 Social Skills with Mafia) (1PP)
Archaic Weapon Proficiency (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Focus 1 (Ranged) (1PP)
Martial Artist (1PP)
Equipment +7 (7PP) (=35EP) 
- Smartlinked Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (9EP)
- Smartlinked Semiauto Shotgun (+5 slashing/+6 Ballistic) (12EP)
- Monofilament Sword Mighty (+4 Slashing) (6EP)
- Lined Coat (+2 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)[/sblock]


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## Insight (Jun 17, 2010)

I need to look at my old Shadowrun stuff (if I can find it) to see what archetype sounds interesting.  Elf... something.... maybe   Maybe a fixer/smuggler/street-savvy sort.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 18, 2010)

Sure, My next Archetype will be along those lines.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 18, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> *...**
> EDIT: WD; Do you mind working up a Combat Mage?  You have a much better handle on the Magic stuff.  I am going to try a Troll Enforcer next.
> 
> *




No problem, but perhaps not before Monday. Do you plan to integrate the magic / cyberware balance (Essence) into the rules? Maybe a max budget for combined cyberware and magic powers?


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## perrinmiller (Jun 18, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> No problem, but perhaps not before Monday. Do you plan to integrate the magic / cyberware balance (Essence) into the rules? Maybe a max budget for combined cyberware and magic powers?



For making the Archetypoes from the rulebook it's not an issue, but once we start customizing, yes there would have to be a limit to PP spent either way.  I see it coming up quickly when I try to do the Gunslinger Adept.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 18, 2010)

There's a Gunslinger Adept?  Hmmm... that sounds like something I might be interested in trying.  Physical Adepts uses self-buffs to improve their abilities (I think), so it'd be more of the same?


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## Shayuri (Jun 18, 2010)

Dang...this looks pretty cool. Room for more?


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## perrinmiller (Jun 18, 2010)

Herobizkit said:


> There's a Gunslinger Adept?  Hmmm... that sounds like something I might be interested in trying.  Physical Adepts uses self-buffs to improve their abilities (I think), so it'd be more of the same?



Yes it is.  I made one a few months ago for the SR game that folded on me.



Shayuri said:


> Dang...this looks pretty cool. Room for more?



Sure, but we are really just working on the rules for character generation.  In my free tie I am converting the Shadowrun Archetypes into M&M format.  So far it looks to be working.  Once we figure most of it out, we would then start customizing for actual characters and trying an scenario.  Just be warned that some of us (meaning me) barely know what we are doing.

I have added some Drawbacks to the Street Samurai and Troll Enforcer.  I will edit back those changes shortly.  Still flushing out the Elf Smuggler.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 18, 2010)

Updated Archetypes:

[sblock=Street Samurai Ver 3]Abilities (26PP)
Str 18, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 12, Cha 10

Saves (4PP)
Tough +4, Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +4

Combat (16PP)
Initiative +11 (+8 from Feats)
Defense +6/2FF (8PP +2 Dodge from Feats)
Attack +4 (8PP)

Skills (14PP)
Knowledge (Safe Houses) 3 ranks
Knowledge (Firearms) 6 ranks
Knowledge (Zen Meditation) 3 ranks
Acrobatics 6 ranks
Climb 6 ranks
Gather Info 4 ranks
Diplomacy 4 ranks
Drive 4 ranks
Notice 8 ranks
Stealth 4 ranks
Swim 6 ranks
Language (English) 1 rank
Language (Japanese) 1 rank

Feats/Powers (30PP)
Cyber Eyes: Low-light/Darkvision/Flash Supression (3PP)
Wired Reflexes 2: (8PP)
- Improved Initiative 2 (2pp)
- Reflex Saves +2 (2pp)
- Dodge +2 (2pp)
- Quick Draw 2 (2pp)
Cyberware smartlink (3PP)
- Drawback (only works with Smartlinked gear) (-1pp)
- Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Precise Shot 1 (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Accuracy 1 (+2 Attack) (1pp)
- AR assisted Driving 1 (+2 Drive Skill) (1pp)
High Pain Threshold 1 (+1 Tough & Fort) (spent above)
Guts 2 (+2 Will) (Spent Above)
Drawback: Incompetent Computers (Skill -2) (-1PP)
Drawback: Addition (Mild, Stimulants -2 Will Resist) (-1PP)
Muscle Replacement (+4 Str) (spent above)
Dermal Plating (+2 Def) (spent above)
Contacts (1PP)
Archaic Weapon Proficiency (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Martial Artist (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Specialization 1 (SMGs +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Pistols +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Swords +2) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Unarmed +2) (1PP)
Equipment +9 (9PP) (=45EP) 
- Smartlinked SMG (+4 Ballistic) (13EP)
- Smartlinked Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (9EP)
- Katana Mighty (+4 Slashing) (6EP)
- Motorcycle With Smartlink connection(10EP)
- Armored Vest (+4 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)[/sblock]
[sblock=Troll Enforcer ver 2]Troll Meta-Human (13PP)
- Growth 4 (Str +8*, Con +4, +1 Reach, +5ft move, Large Size)
- * Strength bonus doesn't apply to Climb & Swim checks
- Int -2, Cha -2, Dex -2
- Darkvision

Abilities (30PP)
Str 28, Dex 12, Con 24, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 10

Saves (0PP)
Tough +8, Fort +7, Ref +5, Will +1

Combat (8PP)
Initiative +9 (+8 from Feats) 
Defense +4/2FF (0PP +2 Dodge Feat)
Attack +4 (8PP)

Skills (18PP)
Knowledge (Safe Houses) 2 ranks
Knowledge (Mafia Politics) 2 ranks
Knowledge (Gang Turf) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Gambling places) 6 ranks
Bluff 4 ranks (costs 8)
Diplomacy 2 ranks (costs 4)
Craft (Forgery) 6 ranks
Gamble 8 ranks
Intimidation 6 ranks (costs 12)
Drive 4 ranks
Notice 5 ranks
Sleight of Hand 6 ranks
Stealth 5 ranks

Feats/Powers (24PP)
Wired Reflexes 2: (8PP Total)
- Improved Initiative 2 (2pp)
- Reflex Saves +4 (2pp)
- Dodge +2 (2pp)
- Quick Draw 2 (2pp)
Cyberware smartlink (3PP)
- Drawback (only works with Smartlinked gear) (-1pp)
- Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Precise Shot (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Accuracy 1 (+2 Attack) (1pp)
- AR assisted Driving 1 (+2 Drive Skill) (1pp)
Home Ground (+2 Skills related to home turf) (1PP)
Toughness (+2 Tough & Defense) (Spent Above)
Drawback: Addicition (Mild, BLT -2 Will resist) (-1PP)
Drawback: Scorched (-2 Will resist BLT) (-1PP)
Drawback: Uncouth (Social skills with no ranks are untrained. Cost for ranks is double.) (-3PP)
Contacts (1PP)
Mafia Ettiquette (+2 Social Skills with Mafia) (1PP)
Archaic Weapon Proficiency (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Focus 1 (Ranged) (1PP)
Martial Artist (1PP)
Equipment +7 (7PP) (=35EP) 
- Smartlinked Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (9EP)
- Smartlinked Semiauto Shotgun (+5 slashing/+6 Ballistic) (12EP)
- Monofilament Sword Mighty (+4 Slashing) (6EP)
- Lined Coat (+2 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)[/sblock]
[sblock=Elven Smuggler]Elf Meta-Human (7PP)
- Dex +2; Cha +2
- Racial Bonus: Notive +2; Search +2
- Feature 1: Longevity
- Low-light vision

Abilities (22PP)
Str 12, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 14, Cha 12

Saves (0PP)
Tough +3, Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +2

Combat (6PP)
Initiative +12 (+8 from Feats) 
Defense +4/2FF (0PP +2 Dodge Feat)
Attack +3 (6PP)

Skills (15PP)
Knowledge (Safe Houses) 3 ranks
Knowledge (Smuggling Routes) 5 ranks
Knowledge (Border Patrol Tactics) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Engineering) 3 ranks
Craft (Mechanical/repair) 8 ranks
Diplomacy 2 ranks
Computers 6 ranks
Disable Device 6 ranks
Drive 6 ranks
Pilot 4 ranks
Notice 4 ranks
Navigation 4 ranks
Sleight of Hand 3 ranks
Language Spanish 1 rank
Language Sperethiel 1 rank

Feats/Powers (40PP)
Cyber Eyes: Low-light/Darkvision/Flash Supression (3PP)
Reaction Enhancers 2: (6PP Total)
- Improved Initiative 2 (2pp)
- Reflex Saves +2 (2pp)
- Dodge +2 (2pp)
Cyberware Control Rig (6PP)
- Drawback (only works with AR linked Vehicles) (-1pp)
- Vehicular Move-by-Action (1pp)
- AR assisted Driving 2 (+4 Drive Skill) (2pp)
- Improved Aim (Vehicular Weapons) (1pp)
- Precise Shot 1 (Vehicular Weapons) (1pp)
- Datalink 2 (2pp)
Drawback: Incompentent 1 (unarmed -2 Attack) (-1PP)
Drawback: Moderate Allergy to Sunlight (-4 Fort save) (-2PP)
Drawback: Low Tolerance for Pain (-1 Tough & Fort) (-2PP)
Smuggling Compartments (-4 Opponent Notice Skill) (2PP)
Aluminum Bone Lacing (+2 Tough & Defense) (6PP)
Contacts (1PP)
Smuggler's Ettiquette (+2 Social Skills with Smugglers) (1PP)
Heavy Weapon Weapon Proficiency (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Aircraft Operation Proficiency: Helicopter (1PP)
Vehicle Operation Proficiency: Drones (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Focus 1 (Ranged +1) (1PP)
Attack Specialization (Machinegun +2) (1PP)
Equipment +12 (12PP) (=60EP) 
- Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (8EP)
- Repair Toolkit (Craft Mechanics +2) (1EP)
- Automotive Shop (9EP)
- Lined Coat (+2 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)
- Full-size Car with AR PAckage (9EP)
- Step-Van with AR PAckage (28EP)
 with Machingun Mounted (+6 Ballistic)[/sblock]


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 18, 2010)

What kind of character are there to begin with anyways? I'm completly clueless. I can make a standard hero but I'll like to know limitations and feel of characters in the setting...


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## perrinmiller (Jun 18, 2010)

Okay here's the stab at the Gunslinger Adept.

Had Adept cost 1PP per rank. Then allows 2PP for Adept Powers per rank.
[sblock=Ork Gunslinger Adept]Ork Meta-Human (4PP)
- Str +2, Con +3, Int -1, Cha -1
- Low-light Vision

Abilities (25PP)
Str 16, Dex 18, Con 18, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 10

Saves (0PP)
Tough +4, Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +2

Combat (14PP)
Initiative +12 (+8 from Feats) 
Defense +6/2FF (8PP +2 Dodge Feat)
Attack +3 (6PP)

Skills (12PP)
Knowledge (Firearms) 5 ranks
Knowledge (Hong Kong Action Movies) 2 ranks
Knowledge (Hong Kong Triads) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Lone Star Procedures) 4 ranks
Acrobatics 5 ranks
Climb 5 ranks
Craft (Firearms) 5 ranks
Swim 5 ranks
Diplomacy 2 ranks
Drive 4 ranks
Notice 6 ranks
Language English 1 rank

Feats/Powers (30PP)
Ambidextrous (1PP)
Drawback: Mild Allergy Pollutants (-2 Fort) (-1PP)
Drawback: SINner (-1PP)
Adept 6 (Allow 12PP in Physical Magic) (6PP)
Attack Specialization 2 (Pistols +4) (2PP)(M)
Improved Reflexes 2: (8PP)(M)
- Improved Initiative 2 (2pp)
- Reflex Saves +2 (2pp)
- Dodge +2 (2pp)
- Quick Draw 2 (2pp)
Combat Senses 2 (+8 Notice Checks vs. Surprise) (2PP)(M)
Contacts (1PP)
Street Etiquette (+2 Social Skills on the Street) (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Focus 1 (Ranged) (1PP)
Contact Lens w/Smartlink (3PP)
- Drawback (only works with Smartlinked gear) (-1pp)
- Improved Aim (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Precise Shot 1 (Smartlink) (1pp)
- Accuracy 1 (+2 Attack) (1pp)
- AR assisted Driving 1 (+2 Drive Skill) (1pp)
Equipment +10 (10PP) (=50EP) 
- 2 Smartlinked Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (18EP)
- Smartlinked Light Pistol (+3 Slashing) (7EP)
- Mid-size Car with AR PAckage (9EP)
- Fake SIN (Forgery 6) (3EP)
- Fake Detective License (Forgery 8) (4EP)
- Medkit (+2 Medicine) (1EP)
- Lock Release gun (1EP)
- Lined Coat (+2 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)[/sblock]

By sticking to the SR Archetypes, all of them have plenty of knowledge skills. I actually have been trimming them back.  This is typical of the Shadowrun setting, but those skills are also free based on Intellect.  Not sure they should count for PP calculations or not.  If I was building from scratch I wouldn't spend so much, that's for sure.  But that's just me.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 18, 2010)

I cannot find my Shadowrun Core book at the moment. Will try to convert something from memory


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## perrinmiller (Jun 19, 2010)

After working the Gunslinger Adept I did some thinking.  The way I did the 1st Archetypes is not so balanced.  Adept's have to pay for their Magic score and then abilities for free.  I need to rework the PP cost for that one.

The for the Cyberware, it is a cost issue in SR.  I will need to re-examine that from that point of of view to make sure it balances in comparison to the Adept.  Equipment costs seem unbalanced as well.  A smartlinked gun costs as much as a vehicle.  But add an LMG to that vehicle and more than doubles the cost.  Doesn't seem right.  When I work the Rigger with I hope to have it nailed down.

But slowly and surely, I am getting there I think.  If anyone has found anything on the Archetypes, let me know.  I still am not sure about some of the things.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 19, 2010)

Alright gents.  I have come to some conclusions.

*First:* I think the Knowledge and Language Skills should not count against the PP total.  In that way we will copy Shadowrun and base it on Intelligence.  For every point spent on Intelligence, you can spend 4 ranks in Knowledge Skills, including spending a rank to gain additional languages.  You can always spend more ranks at PP cost, which will help those characters with low Intelligence.

*Second:* Then to balance Cyberware and Magic.  I think it should be a function of PL.  So the Adept can take Adept 6 (Max for PL) and it costs 12 PP (2PP/Rank).  Those 12PP can be used on the Adept Powers/Feats.  I think Magician can work the same way.  With the sorcery power having the Flaw: Side  Effect (Fatigue, Always Occurs) –2PP, they could effective spend 24PP for Magician 6 at PL6.   _What do you think WD?_

For the Cyberware side, instead of Essence to limit it (what Shadowrun uses), we just only allow 2PP/PL (so 12PP for PL6) on Cybeware Feats/Powers.  It would keep it on par with Magicians and Adepts.

I don't think I need to update the Archetypes I have already done, to match these adjustments unless someone needs it to build a character.  I think what I need to do next is do an Archetype that someone specifically wants as to help them get started with their own character.

_Any requests?  Voda Vosa, I should make an Archetype you are interested in since you are not as familiar with Shadowrun._


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## Walking Dad (Jun 19, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> ...
> 
> *Second:* Then to balance Cyberware and Magic.  I think it should be a function of PL.  So the Adept can take Adept 6 (Max for PL) and it costs 12 PP (2PP/Rank).  Those 12PP can be used on the Adept Powers/Feats.  I think Magician can work the same way.  With the sorcery power having the Flaw: Side  Effect (Fatigue, Always Occurs) –2PP, they could effective spend 24PP for Magician 6 at PL6.   _What do you think WD?_
> 
> ...




What about allowing 2PP/PL max for both magic and cyberware? As they draw fron the same source: Essence. So any PP spend on cyberware would reduce your max possibility PP for magic.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 20, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> What about allowing 2PP/PL max for both magic and cyberware? As they draw fron the same source: Essence. So any PP spend on cyberware would you max possibility PP for magic.



Works for me and seems right.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 20, 2010)

What archetypes are available?


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## perrinmiller (Jun 21, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> What archetypes are available?



From what is in the Shadowrun Core book:
Troll Street Shaman
Human Covert OPs Specialist
Ork Sprawl Ganger
Troll Enforcer *
Ork Hacker
Human Occult Investigator
Elf Combat Mage
Human Technomancer
Elf Weapons Specialist
Troll Bounty Hunter
Dwarf Radical Eco-Shaman
Ork Gunslinger Adept *
Dwarf Face
Elf Smuggler *
Dwarf Drone Rigger
Human Street Samurai *

But those are really just an example list.  I might have more from another sourcebook at home.  I figure you might prefer a Melee Adept, a magically enhanced sword carrier.

Edit: * for the one's already made in M&M


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## Walking Dad (Jun 21, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> What archetypes are available?



Or do you men what archetypes were already converted to M&M?

BTW: I found my quickstart rules for Shadowrun 4th edition. I could try to convert the elf mage in there.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 21, 2010)

Sure thing, WD.  I am wondering if it is time to start a RG thread.  I am pretty much ready to start building the NPCs for the scenario, if I am not making more Archetypes.

I guess we really need a head count of who is really serious.

A few more people chimed in once or twice so we might have plenty.  Food fight in a Stuffer Shack really needs about 5-6 PCs.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 21, 2010)

I'm in.

About magic: As you can only use spells you know in shadowrun, I would just use the sorcery mechanic from W&W and no variable power, like I did for the Warrens in the Malazan game.

(Sorcery = Magic with Side  Effect (Fatigue, Always Occurs) –2PP), so one PP gives you one level sorcery. Each level of Sorcery gives you 2 PP to build your spells. First is free, others are bought as alternate powers.
Problem: You can only use 1 spell at ones without the independent extra.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 22, 2010)

Here is the Quickstart of the original rules with some world background information. It is the version without the shortadventure that we will play:

http://www.shadowrun4.com/resources/sr4/catalyst_shadowrunqs_player.pdf


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## Herobizkit (Jun 22, 2010)

Human Occult Investigator, eh?  If he can do magic, I'm all about it.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 22, 2010)

Herobizkit said:


> Human Occult Investigator, eh?  If he can do magic, I'm all about it.



Hero; Here's my Archetype conversion.  But I am not sure how the Sorcery works for picking the spells and calculating the costs.   I am struggling to understand it in the M&M rule set. 

[sblock=Occult Investigator]Occult Investigator
Human (0PP)

Abilities (28PP)
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 16

Saves (7PP)
Tough +3 (+5 Lined Coat), Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +5

Combat (14PP)
Initiative +2 
Defense +4/2FF (8PP)
Attack +3 (6PP)
    (+4 Ranged)
    (+5 Spells)

Skills (13PP+3PP Free Knowledge)
Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 6 ranks
Knowledge (Chemistry) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Underworld Politcs) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Local Area) 4 ranks
Computer 4 ranks
Gather Information 6 ranks
Diplomacy 3 ranks
Bluff 3 ranks
Intimidate 3 ranks
Investigate 4 ranks
Disable Device 4 ranks
Notice 6 ranks
Sleight of Hand 3 ranks
Sense Motive 3 ranks
Stealth 4 ranks
Language Arabic 1 rank
Language Japanese 1 rank
Language Spanish 1 rank

Feats/Powers (28PP)
Drawback: Power Loss (Sorcery, Fatigue, Always occures) (-2PP)
Drawback: Mild Addiction, Alcohol (-1 Will save resist) (-1PP)
Drawback: Bad Luck (Hero Point 15% chance backfires) (-3PP)
Contacts (1PP)
Ritualist (1PP)
Sorcery 6 (12PP)
- Ignite = Blast?
- Improved Invisbility = Invisibility?
- Influence = Mind Control?
- Mind Probe = Mind Reading
- Stun Bolt = Ranged Stun
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Focus 1 (Ranged +1) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Spells +2) (1PP)
Equipment +16 (16PP) (=80EP) 
- Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (8EP)
- Goggles (Low-light/Darkvision/Flare Supp) (15EP)
- Earbuds (Sound filtering/Audio Enhancement/Spacial Recognizer) (15EP)
- Mage Sight Goggles & 30m Myomeric Rope (10EP)
- Lined Coat (+2 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)
- Fake SIN (4EP)
- Fake Press License (4EP)
- Maglock Passkey (5EP)
- Lickpick Set (1EP)
- Auto-picker (1EP)
- 3 Micro Cameras (3EP)
- 3 Micro Microphones (3EP)
- 20 Security Tags (1EP)
- Radio Signal Scanner (2EP)
- Micro Directional Microphone (2EP)[/sblock]
I have the NPCs finished except for the Shaman.  I have the same issue with him as I have for the Occult Investigator.  Hopefully with WD's Combat Mage I will gain the critical understanding.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm interested in the Dwarf Drone Rigger. Is my guess correct when I think it's a dwarf that makes robots?


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## Walking Dad (Jun 22, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> I'm interested in the Dwarf Drone Rigger. Is my  guess correct when I think it's a dwarf that makes robots?




In the original setting, a rigger is more buying and upgrading drones / robots. His true schtick is to meld his mind to a machine or security system.




perrinmiller said:


> ...
> 
> Feats/Powers (28PP)
> Drawback: Power Loss (Sorcery, Fatigue, Always occures) (-2PP)
> ...




The Fatigue is no drawback, but a power limit. so you loose the two drawback points. On the bright sight, sorcery 6 costs only 3 PP 

That nets 10PP

Is ritual caster for summonings? I just realized we need astral forms for the full casters. Building them as spell or from the ground up (expensive)?

I will post a slight modified occult investigator from Book of Magic for comprehension, tomorrow.


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## Herobizkit (Jun 23, 2010)

As I thought.  I have such a knack for finding character types that I know I'm going to like... (I knew I'd love the Druid and Shaman on WoW before I even bought the original game pre-BC).

AND I KNOW SPELLS!  Woooooo


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## perrinmiller (Jun 23, 2010)

Thanks WD;  I really haven't got a good grasp yet on the magic issues yet.

Also the equipment costs for some of that stuff on the Occult Investigator's list I made up.  I think the goggles and ear enhancements are too high, probably can get 2PP back from equipment costs as well.


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## Walking Dad (Jun 23, 2010)

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
+0 +1 +1 +2 +4 +4
10 12 12 14 18 18

TOUGHNESS FORTITUDE REFLEX WILL
+3/+1* +4 +4 +8
*Flat-footed

Skills: Bluff 8 (+12), Concentration 4 (+8), Diplomacy 4 (+8), Disable Device 4 (+8), Gather Information 8 (+12), Intimidate 4 (+8), Investigate 8 (+10), Knowledge (arcane lore) 10 (+12), Knowledge (streetwise) 8 (+10), Language 2 (player’s choice), Notice 6 (+10), Search 8 (+10), Sense Motive 8 (+12), Stealth 6 (+7)

Feats: Contacts, Defensive Roll 2, Dodge Focus 3, Equipment 2, Luck, Ritualist, Well-Informed
Equipment: pistol (+3 damage), cell-phone, plus 3 points of miscellaneous items

Powers:
Super-Senses 1 (mystic awareness)

Combat: Attack +5, Grapple +5, Damage +0 (unarmed), Defense +9 (+3 flat-footed), Knockback –1, Initiative +1

Abilities 24 + Skills 22 (88 ranks) + Feats 11 + Powers 1 + Combat 22 + Saves 10 = Total 90

Here is the M&M occult investigator archetype


----------



## perrinmiller (Jun 23, 2010)

Eh?  What happened to the spells?

That's the part I was hoping to see.  This is a skill focused guy that looks much different than my SR4 Archetype.  Granted I find nothing wrong with the choices as a customized character though.  

I am not sure what Ritualist really brings to the table with 1PP, have to look at it some more. I read it last night, but didn't really understand how it fits or is used, but saw it on the Archetype in W&W.  If I have time I will work on the Dwarf Drone Rigger (again based on SR4 build not my personal choices).


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 23, 2010)

STR DEX CON INT WIS CHA
+0 +1 +1 +2 +4 +4
10 12 12 14 18 18

TOUGHNESS FORTITUDE REFLEX WILL
+3/+1* +4 +4 +8
*Flat-footed

Skills: Bluff 6 (+10), Concentration 4 (+8), Diplomacy 4 (+8), Disable Device 2 (+6), Gather Information 8 (+12), Intimidate 4 (+8), Investigate 8 (+10), Knowledge (arcane lore) 10 (+12), Knowledge (streetwise) 8 (+10), Language 2 (player’s choice), Notice 6 (+10), Search 8 (+10), Sense Motive 8 (+12), Stealth 6 (+7)

Feats: Contacts, Defensive Roll 2, Dodge Focus 3, Equipment 2, Well-Informed
Equipment: pistol (+3 damage), cell-phone, plus 3 points of miscellaneous items

Powers:
Super-Senses 1 (mystic awareness)

Sorcery 6
1 Spell

Combat: Attack +5, Grapple +5, Damage +0 (unarmed), Defense +9 (+3 flat-footed), Knockback –1, Initiative +1

Abilities 24 + Skills 22 (88 ranks) + Feats 9 + Powers 4 + Combat 22 + Saves 10 = Total 90

Here is the M&M occult investigator archetype with sorcery instead of ritual and with a bit lesser feats and skills. Each 4 point reduction can give you 1 more spell. As does any 1 point Ability reduction.
(each additional spell is just an AP to the base spell you gain from sorcery. Magic (sorcery without fatigue) it THE poster-child for Arrays / Powers with Alternate Power structures).


What about my astral projection question?


----------



## perrinmiller (Jun 23, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> What about my astral projection question?



Oh yeah, that.

I saw that it was quite expensive with the M&M archetypes in the Core Rules.  It shouldn't be so for SR.  Don't know really.  Ritualist vs. Spells?  Dunno.  I guess having not played I am not sure how either would really work.


----------



## Herobizkit (Jun 23, 2010)

Re: astral projection

IIRC, astral projection is really just an Aura Reading kind of trick.  You could also make it a limited Teleportation power (astral only)?


----------



## perrinmiller (Jun 23, 2010)

WD; I guess what I really need is how to build the Archetype as it is in SR4.  I captured the picture of what I am talking about.

He has conjuring skill (Ritualist feat?)
5 Spells: Ignite, Improved Invisibility, Influence, Mind Probe, Stun Bolt

Plus he was able to afford some Matrix gear in the form or Enhanced goggles and earbuds that cost probably 2-3PP each as Equipment.

Then he has Astral Projection.

Somehow we have to make it fit and work at PL6, it it means he is short on skills, ability stats, saves and combat that's fine.  The problem for me is I don't know how some of it works.  I get the things that are familiar d20 stuff, like feats and skills okay, and the equipment too.  It's the translating magic into Powers that is getting me and the spells themselves with the exact cost of things itemized.

If you can help me figure out how to make it, then I can probably make the Combat Mage and Shaman after that. 

Afterward, then people can customize to fit what they want.  Every one of the Archetypes I have made so far are not what I would have done if it was my character, but it does help to figure out what things cost to be able to customize.

Mechanically I am not sure how the Spells, Ritualist, and Astral  projection would work either, but maybe I can figure it out later.  I am hoping to learn that from Mazalan, but I am still not clear how you made your mage over there either.  It looks like you originally started with the Archetype I saw in W&W.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 23, 2010)

ok, first I need a primer on what you can do with astral projection in Shadowrun 4e. Can you cast spells while you do it? Can you affect the real world? If there is no great effect, perhaps we could declare it as super-movement (Dimensional Movement) 1 (2 PP) the the special effect, that you leave your real body behind.

Ritualist is: "Can do any effect with time and high enough skill roll." I don't think taht is very approciate for Shadowrun.

BTW: Rigging should be Possession with range extra, but only effecting machines with rigging controls.


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jun 23, 2010)

Tell you what, give me a power level and I'll make the character myself.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 23, 2010)

PL6 90PP. Are you angry, VV?


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jun 23, 2010)

Not at all. Did I sound angry? I don't feel in any particular mood today, nor angry nor happy. True neutral =P


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 23, 2010)

I thought it sounded a bit impatient, but typing doesn't always translates mood well. Everything alright. 

BTW, the one thing I don't like in current M&M is how they do skills. I like the simplified approach in (D&D) 4e more.


----------



## perrinmiller (Jun 24, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> ok, first I need a primer on what you can do with astral projection in Shadowrun 4e. Can you cast spells while you do it? Can you affect the real world? If there is no great effect, perhaps we could declare it as super-movement (Dimensional Movement) 1 (2 PP) the the special effect, that you leave your real body behind.
> 
> Ritualist is: "Can do any effect with time and high enough skill roll." I don't think taht is very approciate for Shadowrun.



Ok on the Ritualist.  What about summoning?  Any ideas for that?

Re: Astral projection: I am not up to speed on the magic issues in SR either, only played the Cybernetic types.  My impression was that is could be like the Cyberspace thing for the Mages and Shamans.  From a practical point of view I am not sure how important it is for the setting.  I guess it would depend on how it relates to the scenario we are running.

VV; I have included some basic SR info for the Dwarf Rigger
[sblock=Dwarf Rigger]Skills: Aeronautics Mechanic, Automotive Mechanic, Electronics, Gunnery, Automatic Weapons, Pilot Ground Cars, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Anthroform.
Cyberware: Control Rig, Cybereyes, Datajack, Reaction Enhancers 2 
Matrix Gear: Transys Avalon Commlink [w/Response 5, Signal 5, Firewall 5, System 5, and sim-module w/hot sim modification];
Programs [Scan 5; ECCM 5; Encrypt 5; Command 5; Stealth 5];
Autosofts [Clearsight 4; Defense 4; Electronic Warfare 4; Maneuver (Aircraft) 4; Maneuver (Ground Craft) 4; Targeting (Heavy Weapons) 4; Targeting (Automatics) 4]
Vehicles & Drones:
GMC Bulldog Step-Van [Pilot 4, Signal 4, Firewall 4, Response 4, Rigger Adaptation]
1 Lockheed Optic-X Drone
2 GM-Nissan Doberman Drones [Pilot 4, Signal 4, Firewall 4, Response 4, w/Ingram White Knights, 2 belts of 100 rounds of Explosive
Ammo for each]
2 MCT-Nissan Roto-drones [Pilot 4, Signal 4, Firewall 4, Response 4, Weapon Mount w/HK-227x, 10 clips of Exploding Ammo for each]
1 Shiawase Kanmushi Microdrone
1 Offensive Lone Star iBall[/sblock]
Maybe I am trying to make this too complicated.  Instead of trying to determine how to translate SR into M&M, perhaps it is easier to just let people do it however they want within M&M's rules set.  The point of using M&M was to make it easier.  If the characters are a little off for the setting, it probably is not that important.  If someone makes a character that has some things that appear off for the setting, we can always request they change/modify it so it will fit better.

I have my rough draft on the NPCs done for Food Fight, but I cannot finish the Mage/Shaman without some help from WD regarding my earlier posted issue.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 24, 2010)

My supposed changes to perrinmiller's (can I shorten you to PM?) work:

[sblock=Occult Investigator]Occult Investigator
Human (0PP)

Abilities (28PP)
Str 12, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 16

Saves (7PP)
Tough +3 (+5 Lined Coat), Fort +4, Ref +4, Will +5

Combat (14PP)
Initiative +2 
Defense +4/2FF (8PP)
Attack +3 (6PP)
    (+4 Ranged)
    (+5 Spells)

Skills (13PP+3PP Free Knowledge)
Knowledge (Arcane Lore) 6 ranks
Knowledge (Chemistry) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Underworld Politcs) 4 ranks
Knowledge (Local Area) 4 ranks
Computer 4 ranks
Gather Information 6 ranks
Diplomacy 3 ranks
Bluff 3 ranks
Intimidate 3 ranks
Investigate 4 ranks
Disable Device 4 ranks
Notice 6 ranks
Sleight of Hand 3 ranks
Sense Motive 3 ranks
Stealth 4 ranks
Language Arabic 1 rank
Language Japanese 1 rank
Language Spanish 1 rank

Feats/Powers (26PP)
Drawback: Power Loss (Sorcery, Fatigue, Always occures) (-2PP)
Drawback: Mild Addiction, Alcohol (-1 Will save resist) (-1PP)
Drawback: Bad Luck (Hero Point 15% chance backfires) (-3PP)
Contacts (1PP)
Ritualist (1PP)
Sorcery 6 (12PP) (3PP)
- Base: Ignite 3
- AP: Improved Invisbility (all visual senses) (1PP)
- AP: Mind Control 6 (1PP)
- AP: Mind Probe 6 (1PP)
- AP: Stun Bolt 4 (1 PP)
- AP: Summon (Elemental) 3 (1 PP)
Dimensionl Movement (Astral Plane, Drawback: leaves body behind) (1PP)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (1PP)
Modern Armor Proficiency (1PP) 
Attack Focus 1 (Ranged +1) (1PP)
Attack Specialization 1 (Spells +2) (1PP)
Equipment +16 (16PP) (=80EP) 
- Heavy Pistol (+4 Ballistic) (8EP)
- Goggles (Low-light/Darkvision/Flare Supp) (15EP)
- Earbuds (Sound filtering/Audio Enhancement/Spacial Recognizer) (15EP)
- Mage Sight Goggles & 30m Myomeric Rope (10EP)
- Lined Coat (+2 Toughness) (4EP)
- Comlink (1EP)
- Fake SIN (4EP)
- Fake Press License (4EP)
- Maglock Passkey (5EP)
- Lickpick Set (1EP)
- Auto-picker (1EP)
- 3 Micro Cameras (3EP)
- 3 Micro Microphones (3EP)
- 20 Security Tags (1EP)
- Radio Signal Scanner (2EP)
- Micro Directional Microphone (2EP)[/sblock]

[sblock=Spells]

*Ignite*
Effect: Damage, Secondary Effect
Action: Standard (active)
Range: Ranged
Duration: Instant (see description)
Saving Throw: Toughness
Cost: 4 points per rank
You can ingite targets on range. Your fire inflicts damage equal to your power rank on the round of the attack and the round following the attack.
Your Ignite damage does not “stack,” however, so the secondary damage only occurs on rounds when you do not make a successful Ignite attack.

*Improved Invisbility*
= Invisibility

*Influence*
= Mind Control

*Mind Probe*
= Mind Reading (affected by Power Cap! Cannot be higher than PL)

*Stun Bolt*
= Stun (Ranged) (Should target will, not Fort) 3PP / Rank

*Summon Elemental*
= Summon (Minion)
Extra (3): Heroic, Type (Elemental), Independent, Total fade
Limits (1): Action (Full Round)

4PP/rank

Summons 1 heroic elemental, worth 45PP


Power Feats:
Power Drawbacks:


[/sblock]


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 24, 2010)

My dwarf rigger suggestions:

[sblock=Dwarf Rigger original]
Skills: Aeronautics Mechanic,  Automotive Mechanic, Electronics, Gunnery, Automatic Weapons, Pilot  Ground Cars, Pilot Aircraft, Pilot Anthroform.
Cyberware: Control Rig, Cybereyes, Datajack, Reaction Enhancers 2  
Matrix Gear: Transys Avalon Commlink [w/Response 5, Signal 5,  Firewall 5, System 5, and sim-module w/hot sim modification];
Programs [Scan 5; ECCM 5; Encrypt 5; Command 5; Stealth 5];
Autosofts [Clearsight 4; Defense 4; Electronic Warfare 4; Maneuver  (Aircraft) 4; Maneuver (Ground Craft) 4; Targeting (Heavy Weapons) 4;  Targeting (Automatics) 4]
Vehicles & Drones:
GMC Bulldog Step-Van [Pilot 4, Signal 4, Firewall 4, Response 4, Rigger  Adaptation]
1 Lockheed Optic-X Drone
2 GM-Nissan Doberman Drones [Pilot 4, Signal 4, Firewall 4, Response 4,  w/Ingram White Knights, 2 belts of 100 rounds of Explosive
Ammo for each]
2 MCT-Nissan Roto-drones [Pilot 4, Signal 4, Firewall 4, Response 4,  Weapon Mount w/HK-227x, 10 clips of Exploding Ammo for each]
1 Shiawase Kanmushi Microdrone
1 Offensive Lone Star iBall
[/sblock]

[sblock=My take]
Skills: Convert as you will
Cyberware:
Control Rig = Possession (only electronics with rigging port
Cybereyes = Super Senses
Datajack = Benefit 1
Reaction Enhancers 2 = Improved Initiative
Matrix Gear: Transys Avalon Commlink [w/Response 5, Signal 5,  Firewall 5, System 5, and sim-module w/hot sim modification];
 Programs [Scan 5; ECCM 5; Encrypt 5; Command 5; Stealth 5];
*Ignore!*

 Autosofts [Clearsight 4; Defense 4; Electronic Warfare 4; Maneuver  (Aircraft) 4; Maneuver (Ground Craft) 4; Targeting (Heavy Weapons) 4;  Targeting (Automatics) 4]
= Talents bought as powers. If you can only use 1 at a time, make it an array

Vehicles & Drones:
 ???

Will take a new look into Mecha & Manga. Could be perhaps build as Sidekicks / Pets.
[/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller (Jun 24, 2010)

WD; (call me "PM" is fine)

Okay I understand Sorcery a little better and how you got Ignite.
The Alternate powers only cost 1PP.  Is this because they are riding off Sorcery (having the drawback as well) and their level is based on Sorcery's Ranks of 6 x 2=12?  
Then Invisibility is maxed at level 2
Mind Control is at 6, etc...

That would appear to be an easy way to get powers at cheaper cost, but it would appear to work.  So at PL6 Sorcery would be max at 6.  They we have a limit of AP to total 12 for all when countering with Cybernetic enhancements.

A Combat Mage could have quite the load of spells by spending 3 points on Sorcery and then 9PP on Spells. Or is there a limit to the number of AP you can obtain?  I see Magic users needing to pump up their Will Save very high which has an additional cost I guess, maybe that's the balancing factor.

Okay I think I can make the NPC for the scenario.  Thanks much!

Re: Drones;
Maybe they should be built like Devices.  Spending the points on feats and equipment.
Drone Device 4 (3PP/rank, requires Datalink control so 20PP for attibutes)
Or Treat them like the Summoned Minion (4PP/rank; 2 +1 Heroic, +1 Fanatical, +1 Type Mechanical, -1 Requires Datalink to control)
What about that?


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jun 24, 2010)

What's a dwarf Face?


----------



## perrinmiller (Jun 24, 2010)

This is the description (They just happened to make her a female dwarf):
Living in the shadows isn’t all about big guns, major mojo, and dancing the electron two-step. Sometimes a more personal approach is needed, and that’s where the Face comes in. As the public persona of the shadowrunning team, she uses her charm and charisma to negotiate with Mr. Johnson, wine and dine information sources, and talk her way out of tricky situations where blazing guns aren’t the smart way to go. The Face’s strengths are in her wide web of contacts and business associates, her magneticpersonality, and her uncanny ability to figure out what people want and give it to them—all the while cutting a better deal for herself and her team. She’s got style, she’s got flair, she’s up on all the latest fashions and trends, and she’s just as comfortable chatting over drinks with a corporate bigwig as she is discussing this year’s Urban Brawl draft with a group of sprawl gangers. She’s the consummate social chameleon, easily slipping in and out of character to make the best of any situation.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 24, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> WD; (call me "PM" is fine)
> 
> Okay I understand Sorcery a little better and how you got Ignite.
> The Alternate powers only cost 1PP.  Is this because they are riding off Sorcery (having the drawback as well) and their level is based on Sorcery's Ranks of 6 x 2=12?
> ...



The main balancing factor is that you can only use one power at once. To mix and match, you would have to made them dynamic, costing an additional PP. So no protection spell, while flying, while blasting. I got around this limitation a bit, by making the summoning independent (extra).



perrinmiller said:


> Re: Drones;
> Maybe they should be built like Devices.  Spending the points on feats and equipment.
> Drone Device 4 (3PP/rank, requires Datalink control so 20PP for attibutes)
> Or Treat them like the Summoned Minion (4PP/rank; 2 +1 Heroic, +1 Fanatical, +1 Type Mechanical, -1 Requires Datalink to control)
> What about that?




I thought the drones more as creatures, that can be possessed by the rigger. So the drones would cost equipment points, the ability to rig PPs.

Also I thought a rigger cannot do much else while controlling a drone... not up to date with shadowrun.


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jun 24, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> This is the description (They just happened to make her a female dwarf):
> Living in the shadows isn’t all about big guns, major mojo, and dancing the electron two-step. Sometimes a more personal approach is needed, and that’s where the Face comes in. As the public persona of the shadowrunning team, she uses her charm and charisma to negotiate with Mr. Johnson, wine and dine information sources, and talk her way out of tricky situations where blazing guns aren’t the smart way to go. The Face’s strengths are in her wide web of contacts and business associates, her magneticpersonality, and her uncanny ability to figure out what people want and give it to them—all the while cutting a better deal for herself and her team. She’s got style, she’s got flair, she’s up on all the latest fashions and trends, and she’s just as comfortable chatting over drinks with a corporate bigwig as she is discussing this year’s Urban Brawl draft with a group of sprawl gangers. She’s the consummate social chameleon, easily slipping in and out of character to make the best of any situation.




Doesn't seem very logical for a race that has a -2 charisma.


----------



## Herobizkit (Jun 24, 2010)

For what it's worth, I liked PM's take on the Occult Investigator more than yours, WD.  I would naturally be inclined to tweak it, but I'm not quite sure how.


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jun 24, 2010)

Could I make a human technomancer using devices? like some cool pulp looking Tesla gun or something.


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jun 24, 2010)

I did it for the fun of it =)


```
Vladimir Tesla II

Points summary												
Abilities	Combat	Saves	Skills	Feats	Powers	Drawback	Total					
	20	20	12	4	7	27	0		90				
	
PL	6	90pp										
												
Abilities	Pts	Total	Bonus									
Strength: 	2	12	1									
Dexterity: 	6	16	3									
Constitution: 	4	14	2									
Intelligence: 	6	16	3									
Wisdom: 	2	12	1									
Charisma: 	0	10	0									
												
Combat	Ranks	PS	T.offs	Bonus								
Attack	4	8	0	4								
Damage	1		0	1								
Grapple	5			5								
Defense	6	12	0	6								
Init	3			3								
												
Saves		Ranks T.offs		Bonus								
Toughness 	0	0		2								
Fortitude	4	0		6								
Reflex		3	0		6								
Will		5	0		6								
												
												
Skills                               	Bonus	Ranks	PS									
Acrobatics                      	3	0	0									
Bluff                                	0	0	0									
Climb                             	1	0	0									
Computers                         	7	4	1									
Concentration                   	1	0	0									
Craft                                 	7	4	1									
Diplomacy                         	0	0	0									
Disable Device                     	7	4	1									
Disguise                           	0	0	0									
Drive                                	3	0	0									
Escape Artist                     	3	0	0									
Gather Inf                      	0	0	0									
Handle Animal                    	0	0	0									
Intimidate                      	0	0	0									
Investigate                     	3	0	0									
Knowledge                       	5	2	0.5									
Language                        	0	0	0									
Medicine                        	1	0	0									
Notice                             	1	0	0									
Perform                          	0	0	0									
Pilot                                 	3	0	0									
Profession                      	1	0	0									
Ride                                  	3	0	0									
Search                             	5	2	0.5									
Sense Motive                      	1	0	0									
Sleight of Hand                   	3	0	0									
Stealth                             	3	0	0									
Survival                           	1	0	0									
Swim                                	1	0	0									
												
Feats		Ranks/PS											
Def Attack	1											
Ranged Pin	1											
Quick Draw	2											
Precise Shot	1											
Assessment	1											
Master Plan	1																			

			
												
												
												
												
Powers				Rank	PS/Rnk?	PS	
								
Tesla II Static Enforcer(25 pp)	5	3	15									
-Electrical control(12pp)	6	0	0									
--Dazzel visual AP (1)		0	0	0									
-Gravity control (12pp)		6	0	0
									
Tesla II Static Armor(15pp)	3	4	12									
-Inpervious Force Field		12	0	0
```


----------



## Walking Dad (Jun 24, 2010)

Herobizkit said:


> For what it's worth, I liked PM's take on the Occult Investigator more than yours, WD.  I would naturally be inclined to tweak it, but I'm not quite sure how.




No problem. Have you seen my rules-fix:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5222178-post95.html

And there is 1PP unspent.


----------



## perrinmiller (Jul 1, 2010)

Sorry.  I haven't had much time for this lately.  I got roped into DMing another game and started playing a heavy RP d20 game so haven't even touched my Shadowrun materials.

In other news, have found a potential GM however, he was supposed to review the 4ed rules during this week, since he last played/GM'd under 3rd Ed.  He is a member with me on different site though.


----------



## Herobizkit (Jul 1, 2010)

Yup, I'm with ya PM.  I'm out of this one, too... it's a great idea, but just seems like too much work and bookkeeping for my tastes.


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jul 1, 2010)

Quiters! It was a good M&M game in my opinion. Hehe, anyway, no hay problema!


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 1, 2010)

At least we got Malazan...


----------



## perrinmiller (Jul 2, 2010)

Oh, I am not throwing my stuff away, just putting the project on hold.  Particularly in light of other games we three are playing.

A few weeks ago, I did say that I wanted to play a more traditional M&M Campaign to learn the system better.  Anyone care to set that up?


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 2, 2010)

I have a bit of time issues. But I would gladly play. (Maybe it will be my last game before M&M 3e)


----------



## perrinmiller (Jul 2, 2010)

Again we need a GM.  VV?  Maybe Hero would also be interested in straight superhero action too.


----------



## Voda Vosa (Jul 2, 2010)

Well I'm DMing 4 games at the moment, so my load is pretty full. If Hero wants to DM, I'll gladly join. 
True, we are in a bunch of games together, weird isn't it?


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 2, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> ...
> True, we are in a bunch of games together, weird isn't it?




Depends in how many games someone is... I DM 2, and play in 15 (without living games (5))


----------



## perrinmiller (Jul 2, 2010)

Only counting this site VV and I are in 5 games together, one of which I DM.  Fallout will make #6.

But if we are bragging about total games.  I DM 5, play in 15 with one character on deck and Fallout will make #16.  So yes I am reaching my limit, but luckily a handful of those games are once a week for input or I'd be in trouble.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 5, 2010)

My Darksun game is slowly dying... if it dies, I would suggest a high street level game (PL 9) in Gotham City.

Idea:
- Batman (and some other non-Gotham heroes) vanished in last (unspecified) Crisis.
- A new crime organization (SHADOW) is moving in, starting a shadow war with the native crime elements in Gotham.
- Characters will come to rescue from another city.


----------



## perrinmiller (Jul 5, 2010)

Works for me. VV and I can get character ideas started while waiting for d20 FO to start.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 5, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Works for me. VV and I can get character ideas started while waiting for d20 FO to start.






Walking Dad said:


> My Darksun game is slowly dying... *if* it dies...




Cannot make promises, but I'm very fine with you making characters 

For Gotham, a bit darker concept is always nice as are heroes with with no or darker powers. (example: Black Canary, got a sonic scream, but is mostly using martial arts; or from Marvel: Daredevil, Moon Knight).

But a more four-color group for contrast could work, too.

If I cancel the DS game, I will also make a more proper thread in the Talking-the-Talk forum.


----------



## perrinmiller (Jul 5, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> Cannot make promises, but I'm very fine with you making characters
> 
> For Gotham, a bit darker concept is always nice as are heroes with with no or darker powers. (example: Black Canary, got a sonic scream, but is mostly using martial arts; or from Marvel: Daredevil, Moon Knight).
> 
> ...



Understood "if", but interpreted it to mean "when".   Otherwise you probably wouldn't have said anything.  But honestly I hope your Dark Sun game works out if you still want to run it.  If you do open up a proper recruitment, I would be grateful for a heads up in case I missed the opener.

What does "four-color group" mean?  I also like the idea of kicking around concepts for awhile instead of rushing to meet a deadline.


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 5, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> ...
> 
> What does "four-color group" mean?  I also like the idea of kicking around concepts for awhile instead of rushing to meet a deadline.




Blue and red spandex 
Do you know the JLA issues Batman complains about their flashy costumes and over-reliance on their powers, while he goes by stealth and skill?

So a group of new heroes with flashy powers and costumes would give great role-playing hooks for interaction with Black Canary, Nightwing, Robin,...


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## perrinmiller (Jul 5, 2010)

Okay, I am way out of date on my superhero knowledge.  I was watching some of the recent cartoon versions (JL Unlimited and the Spectacular Spiderman) with my son (when he was 5 yrs old last year), but the wife put a stop to that because he was not ready to handle the violence yet.  So we switched to playing some D&D. 

When I was collecting comic books, I was interested in Spawn, Groo the Wanderer, anything by Frank Miller (but I don't actually have the Dark Knight), Asterix the Gaul, Matt Wagner's Grendel, and some Image Comics titles like Witchblade.  I did watch the early seasons of Smallville though (not that it helps).


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## Walking Dad (Jul 5, 2010)

No problem, I really like JLU (and have a son (trying to explain M&M to him)), too.

It will not be an up to date DC version, but more JLU with a twist. Spawn and Frank Miller books are good examples for the non-four-color style I mentioned


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## perrinmiller (Jul 5, 2010)

Funny my son just asked me tonight about playing D&D.  I have been so busy with PbP that I haven't really cared to play table top.  It isn't so much fun one-on-one either, but then a 6 year old cannot really role-play too much.  He mostly has fun rolling the dice and moving the miniatures around.  

Of course his first combat (at age 5) just warmed my heart, "Daddy, Gordon chops the gargoyle in the ear." "That's nice son, just roll the blue dice."  Blood thirsty little tyke named his characters after Thomas the Tank Engine and Friends.  We also had to learn some properly benign vocabulary to keep his mother appeased.  "The orc was defeated and fell down." "Where did he go?" "He fell down and... disappeared." "Is he sleeping?" "No, he fainted, like in Pokemon when they lose, now roll the dice again."

Once I get more experienced we will try Star Wars Saga Edition when he is a little older.

As for Gotham, if it comes to pass, I call dibs on a Spawn-like character.


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 5, 2010)

Uh dark heros, my type of hero thats for sure. I'm all for it.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 6, 2010)

"I'm a SUPER HERO, Mother.  An effete British superhero, to be precise. I am pilfering your  tableware because I hurl it. I hurl it with a deadly accuracy. The Blue  Raja is my name. And yes, I know I don't wear much blue and I speak in a  British accent, but if you know your history it really does make  perfect sense."

That said, I heart super heroes.  WD, are you going "canon" with the DC Universe?  

@ perrinmiller: If you wanna get caught up on the JLA Unlimited-type stuff, skip to season Six and up of Smallville and you'll see some really nifty stuff.


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## Walking Dad (Jul 6, 2010)

Herobizkit said:


> ...  WD, are you going "canon" with the DC Universe?
> 
> ...




Sort of. It is a more based on JLU (less world changes, more iconic characters with a bit lower powers on the heavy hitters) after a not disclosed dimensional crisis, where some of the JLA members vanished after. But their will be Gordon, Montoya, ...


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## Walking Dad (Jul 17, 2010)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/283644-interest-check-m-m-2nd-gotham-squires.html


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