# Heroes Season [Volume] 2 (#30)---11/05/07-'Out of Time'



## Truth Seeker (Nov 5, 2007)

*Out of Time*​

*Star*:  David Anders (Takezo Kensei),  Kristen Bell (Elle),  Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder Suresh),  Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman),  Ali Larter (Niki Sanders),  Hayden Panettiere (Claire Bennet),  Jack Coleman (Mr. Bennet / HRG),  Masi Oka (Hiro Nakamura)  

*Recurring Role*:  Shalim Ortiz (Alejandro),  Adair Tishler (Molly Walker),  Jimmy Jean-Louis (Mysterious Haitian)   

Peter and Caitlin learn about the endstage effects of the Heroes virus. Many of the Heroes work together to fight the Nightmare Man. West meets HRG. Hiro and Kensei's journey comes to a head.​


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 6, 2007)

When did the season one repeats start.

Save the cheerleader save the world. except now it's from a virus not a bomb.


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## Steel_Wind (Nov 6, 2007)

Save? Are you that naive?  That virus didn't mutate by accident. The Company is trying to find *something* that is capable of killing an immortal man who cannot be killed 

They don't want to find Claire to cure Nikki, they want to find Claire to verify their killer virus is capable of killing Adam Monroe.

They are going to try to kill her.


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## Alzrius (Nov 6, 2007)

I gotta say, this episode DELIVERED!   

I anticipated that Kensei would survive the exploding camp, and that he'd appear in the present to menace Hiro there (his last words made that very clear), but that he'd be Adam, the one behind everything that's happened in the series...WIN!

It was also nice that they wrapped up a bunch of plot threads so far, like Hiro's time in the past, and Matt's dad being defeated. It was also nice that Peter came back to the present so quickly (but left poor Caitlyn trapped in time). And with the promise that next episode will fill in the gaps...man oh man, now this is the Heroes I've been waiting for!


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## Steel_Wind (Nov 6, 2007)

I am somewhat surprised. The legend of Takezo Kensai on the Yamagato Fellowship site has Takezo and his princess at a wedding when they... vanish. The implication is that Hiro brought her forward in time with him. 

Perhaps the decision to leave her in the past was not a wise one. Kensei would harm her just out of spite I think.


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## Glyfair (Nov 6, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> I am somewhat surprised. The legend of Takezo Kensai on the Yamagato Fellowship site has Takezo and his princess at a wedding when they... vanish. The implication is that Hiro brought her forward in time with him.
> 
> Perhaps the decision to leave her in the past was not a wise one. Kensei would harm her just out of spite I think.



Given the vagaries of time travel it could still happen.  Hiro goes back and rescues the princess and Takezo disappears as well for any number of reasons.


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## RangerWickett (Nov 6, 2007)

I loved this episode. It made me happy on many levels. I really like Sylar, but I have to admit, I'm glad the Hondurans weren't in this episode. Maybe they'll do something interesting soon.

But the rest, wow.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 6, 2007)

Random Thoughts:

Hiro and Matt stole the show.  Not only is Hiro responsible for bringing Heroes a badguy that is far cooler then Sylar, but he also proved himself to be a kick ass multi-classed ninja/samuraii. The fact that Matt trapped his father in his own illusion makes him kick ass on many levels. 

Mohinder, West and Claire all needed to die for their collective stupidity and Noah needs to come clean about the paintings.

Petr WAS starting to get boring and I'm glad that Caitlin went bye-bye since she's not as interesting of a character as Adam "Kensai" Monroe.  I sort of think its ironic that this teamup might lead to Sylar becoming a hero.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 6, 2007)

Been expecting Kensai for some time now, he is looking more like Logan/Wolverine every day, they are in Canada.  Does make you wonder if he has more than one power.  I don't buy the virus to kill him, too extreme, when a bullet in the brain pan will do, UNLESS he has more going for him.  

Bob, is the EVIL one!  His group is the one that want things to go boom and set themselves up as gods.  Seeing how he has the 'good guys' jumping as he pulls strings, sweet.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 6, 2007)

Mohinder is a stupid, stupid man.


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## Grymar (Nov 6, 2007)

Wow, great, great episode.

This is what makes the show work.  Last season was like this two, you'd have a down episode or two as they moved the chess pieces around the board and then they'd unload a killer episode.

Poor Kaitlyn, stuck in a future that may (we hope) never happen.  Will Peter ever be able to rescue her?

Hiro was awesome, he is really coming into his own.  

Nikki's virus is interesting.  And it was good to see DL again.

The reveal of Adam...kicka**.


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## LightPhoenix (Nov 6, 2007)

This episode mostly kicked several kinds of butt... this is the Heroes I like!

That said, I still don't care about Claire and West and HRG.  I really do think that Claire's story was over last season - a holdover from the old plan to rotate the cast after each volume.  The whole storyline feels shoehorned in.

The other negative is that during the episode, my friend was completely confused by how much was going on.  Now, I didn't have that problem... but I also come here and discuss the show to death.  Still, it makes me wonder how many other people were lost.

Matt owned this episode.  Hiro and Peter were interesting, but he carried it.  I also love Nathan confronting Nikki... and Bob's look of "WTF, all you do is fly" in response to Nathan saying he'll handle it.

It's fitting that Angela survived the plague.  Nothing can kill her.

My pet theory (which I'm sure is not original) is that Maya comes to NYC and they give her the Shanti virus to take away her power to prevent the plague.  However, her power lets her transmit the virus, especially to non-powered folk.  That would tie her into the story nicely.


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## Brown Jenkin (Nov 6, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> Mohinder is a stupid, stupid man.




We learned that last season when he had an unconscious Sylar and didn't cap him, instead waiting till Sylar was awake before trying to shoot him.

As for this season I loved this episode. I am starting to wonder now what power Angela Petrelli has. She managed to give Peter at least part of his memory back. She is definitely part of the old group which means she has some power.


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## Grymar (Nov 6, 2007)

Interesting thought...Claire is essentially immortal and un-ageing.  She'll be hated at her 25th high school reunion.

And yes, there are other interesting thoughts that go along with this, but are not quite suitable for grandmothers so will go unsaid.


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## DonTadow (Nov 6, 2007)

Great Episode.  One of the best of the season. The one underlying thing I am enjoying about this season is that we are seeing how the powers can be used once someone gains full mastery of them.  

I can't believe no ones talking about Peter's Mom's power, which I think i have figured out.  I think she has the Hatian's power.  This makes sense now.  Remember at the end of last season when Peter seemed to be going in the same place over and over as if he had lost senses of his directions. Then this season she helps him regain some of his memories.  Awesome. 

I still think that Bob will show that he can transumute any metal, not just gold.  

Mohinder remains stupid. 

I am enjoying the HRG, Claire, West storyline and can't see how this was just shoehorned in. it seems that everything is about them.  They are more at the center than people thinmk.  The paintings (which we saw of happen last night) are driving this story arc. Claire's power is proving to be (overtime) the best power and she needs to remain in the show. I am intrigued by HRG. Is he really getting sloppy. I can't imagine that he left his finger prints by mistake. It seemed that he would not have gotten caught if he just erased the guys memories of that evening instead of killed him.  A rare bad plan by hRG? 

So what happens if you go to the future, leave your girlfriend and then change that future with her in it.  Does she get erased from time and is this seeding a plot for a future villianess. of the none hero dna kind.


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## Krug (Nov 6, 2007)

Gosh this episode just didn't work for me. I thought it dragged, and once again echoed too much of last season. I'm glad Hiro is back in the present, but a lot of things just aren't clicking. With the series dropping to third in its time slot, not sure if it can continue for much longer.


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## Einan (Nov 6, 2007)

I think Angela Petrelli has the Voice.  Like Eden did in the first season.  She seemed to command Peter to remember and he did.  A very powerful and abusable ability.

EInan


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## Grymar (Nov 6, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I am intrigued by HRG. Is he really getting sloppy. I can't imagine that he left his finger prints by mistake. It seemed that he would not have gotten caught if he just erased the guys memories of that evening instead of killed him.  A rare bad plan by hRG?




While HRG does seem to be more emotional and near the edge right now, I think he intended to let the company know he was on to them.  He isn't that sloppy.


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## Arnwyn (Nov 6, 2007)

A great episode. Some annoyances, but overall very enjoyable.

The Adam Monroe reveal was fantastic, and it's nice to see Hiro back with Ando. The 'possible future' events were pretty interesting as well (and same with Angela Petrelli). No Sylar and Honduran Snooze Twins improved the episode further. And maybe Niki will die! Yay!

The annoyances include even seeing Niki (who has caused nothing but grief and problems in every episode and season she's been in), as well as the West/Clair/Bennett storyline which is going nowhere, AFAIC. And Mohinder is stupid, which I find unfortunate.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 6, 2007)

I thought it was stated somewhere last year that Angela Petrelli has some form of travelling, but could be wrong.


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## buzzard (Nov 6, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> Mohinder is a stupid, stupid man.




I am starting to believe that Mohinder has the power of super-stupidity. 

buzzard


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## el-remmen (Nov 6, 2007)

I love how the fact that we the audience have a more complete picture of what is going on (though still woefully incomplete) makes Mohinder "stupid."   [where is that roll-eyes smiley when you need it? ]

Anyway, great episode - I love the Hiro/Kensai stuff the best, and was only disappointed in how Matt defeated his Dad so easily - wouldn't the fact that the latter has a lot more experience using his power give him a huge advantage?


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 6, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Anyway, great episode - I love the Hiro/Kensai stuff the best, and was only disappointed in how Matt defeated his Dad so easily - wouldn't the fact that the latter has a lot more experience using his power give him a huge advantage?



Experience placing people into nightmares, not being placed into them.  Game terms, he places all of his power points into offense and not defense.    

I really am going to have to see if anyone has created game characters for them.


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## Einan (Nov 6, 2007)

I think Parkman's Dad's weakness is that all he has are nightmares.  Matt has love, honor, duty and hope.  He's got a lot more weapons in his arsenal, even if he's not as good at using them.  The difference is also that Matt was fighting for someone, Molly.  That paternal instinct gave him the edge.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 6, 2007)

*Stupid is as stupid does.*



			
				el-remmen said:
			
		

> I love how the fact that we the audience have a more complete picture of what is going on (though still woefully incomplete) makes Mohinder "stupid."   [where is that roll-eyes smiley when you need it? ]




It's not that we know more than he does, but that what he knows should convince him that the company is not to be trusted. Hasn't he seen Bob manipulate? Hasn't he seen the tactics that the company is wont to use? Doesn't he know when he's being had? This was a company that, presumably while Bob was in a high level position, was involved in a conspiracy to destroy New York City. That, all by itself, ought to render Bob permanently suspect in Mohinder's eyes. He should have stuck with the plan until he knew more. _That's_ what makes him stupid!


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## Steel_Wind (Nov 6, 2007)

I'm not so sure Mohinder was stupid - and I'm not so sure HRG is right, either.

Don't get me wrong; I think Bob is lying to Mohinder about the virus, that they have been mutating it to try to use it to kill Adam and they want to test it on Claire.

In that sense, they have definitely mislead Mohinder.

But so has HRG. The man is on his own agenda. He's not about taking the Company down or  - indeed - for doing anything other than to suit his own narrow purpose of protecting his family and seeking revenge. HRG has shifted in to a definitely more menacing space. The man is not morally gray - with the bullet last week - he's evil.

And yes, Mohinder is utterly expendable to him. A man who kills his former mentor rather than spare  him - and does so sloppily - is operating on some level that is not at all clear. Maybe he did it for a reason that has yet to emerge - and maybe he did not. The point to take away, if you are Mohinder, is that hitching your wagon to the current HRG is a rather unwise act that is as likely to end poorly as it is well.  HRG will screw you over _in a heartbeat_ if it suits his purpose.

How is that in the least different from Bob?  How is one preferable to the other?  I don't think there is a difference, to be honest. 

Mohinder is like anyone else - he rewards trust with trust. HRG has betrayed that trust so he's reaching out. 

Bob will betray it too of course. But that does not make Mohinder stupid. It makes him human.


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## el-remmen (Nov 6, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> It's not that we know more than he does, but that what he knows should convince him that the company is not to be trusted. Hasn't he seen Bob manipulate? Hasn't he seen the tactics that the company is wont to use? Doesn't he know when he's being had? This was a company that, presumably while Bob was in a high level position, was involved in a conspiracy to destroy New York City. That, all by itself, ought to render Bob permanently suspect in Mohinder's eyes. He should have stuck with the plan until he knew more. _That's_ what makes him stupid!




Except he has reason to not trust HRG either (is willing to do anything, even sacrifice Molly (an innocent) to save his family). . . So was kind of stuck in that situation.  Anyway, if  I were Mohinder I would suspect that Bob already knows about the plan to take down the Company and his working with HRG - and so might as well admit it.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 6, 2007)

el-remmen said:
			
		

> Except he has reason to not trust HRG either (is willing to do anything, even sacrifice Molly (an innocent) to save his family). . . So was kind of stuck in that situation.  Anyway, if  I were Mohinder I would suspect that Bob already knows about the plan to take down the Company and his working with HRG - and so might as well admit it.




I concede the point, and I admit that I got the distinct impression that Bob already knew of the plan, too.

I'm not so sure that HRG really is willing to cut everybody else loose for the sake of his family. I think in the end he'll be shown to have greater loyalties that are currently apparent, though I grant that how he's acting right now, Mohinder has no great reason to trust him. However, when in doubt, it's best to be cautious, which doesn't mean that he has to trust HRG, but it also doesn't mean he has to spill the beans to Bob.

I also agree that HRG is evil, evil, evil. I think it was a week or two ago that I tried to put his alignment in D&D terms as NE, with Parkman as LG, and Mohinder as NG (the Hatian strikes me as True Neutral for the time being). By the end of the season, he may have shifted over to CE, but it remains to be seen.


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## Grymar (Nov 6, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> I also agree that HRG is evil, evil, evil. I think it was a week or two ago that I tried to put his alignment in D&D terms as NE, with Parkman as LG, and Mohinder as NG (the Hatian strikes me as True Neutral for the time being). By the end of the season, he may have shifted over to CE, but it remains to be seen.




I'd call him NE, but not CE.  He doesn't kill for joy or without cause.  He is on a mission and is willing to do whatever it takes to succeed.  That is NE in my book.  Sylar is CE and I'd even say Adam may be CE, but not HRG (yet).


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 6, 2007)

I totally disagree with the statement that HGR has gotten "sloppy."   From his stand point, he's dead and he has died the moment he saw the painting.  Right now his only priorities are to kill as many of his would be killers as possible and to try to protect his family.   As I see it, when he left the finger prints (on purpose, remember he said he was already damned) all he was doing is reaffirming the fact that he knows he's going to die but at the same time he's flipping off the company and giving them a warning about the deaths they will face before he himself dies. 

He may have started as being NE but right now his actions are being tainted by the chaotic knowledge of his own impending death death.  I have a feeling that HGR has put together the pictures of mohinder with the gun and his own death so I'm willing to bet that if HGR doesn't die, he will end up killing mohinder.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 6, 2007)

If a Peter and Heiro ever get back together, possibly Ando (mmmmm), they will see that Mohinder creates a 'cure' in both futures that ends up killing a huge amount of the populations.  Sure, Sylar was behind one in his role of Natan (who the company wanted) and now looks like one for Bob.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 6, 2007)

But HRG does know that the pictures show only POSSIBLE, and not NECESSARY futures. However, you may be right that he'll be willing to go to any length to fend off that particular possible future, no matter how chaotic.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 6, 2007)

Question: Why is it that every time we see Angela Petrelli, she is in the same outfit?


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 6, 2007)

It's not the same outfit -- she has 25 identical outfits that she rotates throughout the month.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 6, 2007)

> If a Peter and Heiro ever get back together, possibly Ando (mmmmm), they will see that Mohinder creates a 'cure' in both futures that ends up killing a huge amount of the populations. Sure, Sylar was behind one in his role of Natan (who the company wanted) and now looks like one for Bob.




Even more evidence of why Mohinder needs to die.  Who knows, maybe next season (if there is one) Mohinder will develop a vaccine that turns normal people into super humans and super humans into normal people. 

If anything Peter and Hiro needs to take Mohinder into the future to have him see what damage he constantly is causing by his meddling in micro-biology.



			
				Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> l Question: Why is it that every time we see Angela Petrelli, she is in the same outfit?




That business suit IS her super hero outfit its indestructible and can't be taken off.


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## Grymar (Nov 6, 2007)

Latest off-the-wall theory.

Elle gets Peter out of custody from the Company where he had been since the BOOM (he gets her electricity powers).  She and he team up to break Adam out.  The three vow to bring down the Company.  

How Peter gets into the cargo container in Cork and why the Irishmen were looking to rob that container I don't yet know, but that's a start of a theory.


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## Kaodi (Nov 6, 2007)

Does Heroes replay on some other night of the week? I have missed most of Season 2 so far, but this sounds like it has been a particularly good episode.


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## DonTadow (Nov 6, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> It's not that we know more than he does, but that what he knows should convince him that the company is not to be trusted. Hasn't he seen Bob manipulate? Hasn't he seen the tactics that the company is wont to use? Doesn't he know when he's being had? This was a company that, presumably while Bob was in a high level position, was involved in a conspiracy to destroy New York City. That, all by itself, ought to render Bob permanently suspect in Mohinder's eyes. He should have stuck with the plan until he knew more. _That's_ what makes him stupid!



Beyond that, in this very episode Mohinder says that "at best Bob is gray" and that might be giving him the benefit of the doubt. A couple of pictures and Mohinder turns away from the plan.  I'd say this was bad, except this seems to be how the character goes.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 6, 2007)

Kaodi said:
			
		

> Does Heroes replay on some other night of the week? I have missed most of Season 2 so far, but this sounds like it has been a particularly good episode.




Each episode of season 2 is posted on the nbc website the day after they air.


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## Ed_Laprade (Nov 6, 2007)

A good episode. But I will point out one little item everyone, including the writers, seem to be missing. We see (presumably) Kensai's charred to the bone corpse. Ah, but he'll just regenerate. Yeah, and he'll be an amnesiac (sp?)! His brain cells may be regenerated, but the connections won't. Those are *not* effected by DNA!


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 6, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> A good episode. But I will point out one little item everyone, including the writers, seem to be missing. We see (presumably) Kensai's charred to the bone corpse. Ah, but he'll just regenerate. Yeah, and he'll be an amnesiac (sp?)! His brain cells may be regenerated, but the connections won't. Those are *not* effected by DNA!




I'm sure the writers aren't missing it so much as ignoring it. These abilities work precisely the way the need to for plot purposes.

More germane, however, to the question of internal coherence, assume for a moment that Claire/Peter/Adam are involved in a nuclear-type exposion, as Peter presumably was last season, wouldn't one's total disintegration have the practical effect of severing one's brainstem? If so, shouldn't that be pretty much the end of that person?

Also, has anyone actually tried simply sticking a knife in the back of Adam's head? That would seem much more efficient than a super-virus.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 6, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> More germane, however, to the question of internal coherence, assume for a moment that Claire/Peter/Adam are involved in a nuclear-type exposion, as Peter presumably was last season, wouldn't one's total disintegration have the practical effect of severing one's brainstem? If so, shouldn't that be pretty much the end of that person?




Hence the earlier reference to Wolverine.  Wolverine was effectively vaporized once yet somehow regenerated from one single cell that somehow managed to survive.



> Also, has anyone actually tried simply sticking a knife in the back of Adam's head? That would seem much more efficient than a super-virus.




Why not a gunshot to the head like HGR advocated as the solution to Peter going nuke?  

Personally I think that Bob and Adams plans are similar and that the company had three factions after it self destructed.  I think one faction of the company wanted to control supers and eliminate rival supers.  This would be the baggers and tagers like HGR and Bob. The second wanted to rule the world, this is Adam's faction.  The third, Charles Deveoux's  faction wanted to make the world into a better place for everyone.  sadly we all know which faction lost their faction war.


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## Brown Jenkin (Nov 6, 2007)

To chime in on three points. 

HRG being sloppy. I think he knew he was leaving prints. The thing he was careful about was shooting Ivan so that no evidence of the Haitian was left. HRG probably figured the company would figure it was him, or at least consider him a possible suspect. By tossing the place he also takes the extra step to leave the impression that Ivan didn't talk. The company probably already thinks that Ivan is strong willed against torture, and without evidence of the Haitian they may assume HRG found what he needed when tossing the place. This way the Haitian remains HRG's secret weapon. 

Ms. Patrelli's power. Her power is sort of like Candice's in that she can make herself look like she is always wearing the same outfit. 

As for killing Kensai. much like cooking Claire, or nuking Peter doesn't have any long term consequenses, doing the same to Kensai probably doesn't either. Sure you can stick a knife in Kensai's brain stem and it will incapacitate him indefinitely, but again like Claire and Peter if someone pulls it out he is good to go again. At this point they way I would go would be to incapacitate Kensai with the knife to the brain, cut his head off and burn the rest of the body, make sure the knife is securely fastened to the head with bandages, seal the head in a welded shut steel box that is very thick, and then drop the box in the Marianas Trench. Sure he could still come back but it would take allot of work.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 6, 2007)

Good episode.

I think Angela Petrellis power is somehow a reverse of the Haitians power. Maybe it is the same power, just used differently. Since just bringing back lost memories doesn't look exactly powerful, there might be more to it, though. (Though nothing suggests that all powers are created equal. Super-Hearing can't really compete with Telepathy, I think...)

Poor Hiro. He comes back from the past, leaving beyond yet another love of his life, happily reunites with Ando (how much of his happyness was played?), only to learn that his father is dead.


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## Vocenoctum (Nov 6, 2007)

Krug said:
			
		

> Gosh this episode just didn't work for me. I thought it dragged, and once again echoed too much of last season. I'm glad Hiro is back in the present, but a lot of things just aren't clicking. With the series dropping to third in its time slot, not sure if it can continue for much longer.




Aside from Hiro & Peter, I'm not feeling it either. Claire's stuff is just jarring for me, Flyboy is irksome and the actor doesn't seem to pull off the effect they're going for, IMO. Bennet and Mohinder are tedious, but then most of the company stuff is. The paintings IMO are meaningless, and they should have brought it another painter rather than try to pass them off as Isaac's.

It was nice to see Hiro sword fighting, not that involved, but fun enough. It'll be fun if & when he beheads Adam.


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## Pseudonym (Nov 7, 2007)

Given that we've been shown that the older generation of heroes can do more advanced things with their powers, Adam's ability may have progressed to the point where a stick in the head wouldn't stop him like it stopped Claire from regenerating.

Looking forward to next week.


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## Krug (Nov 7, 2007)

I think the thing that worked for me in season 1 was that these were normal folks trying to cope with their powers. Matt with his domestic life, Nathan with his election and Peter with being a care-giver and Hiro and Ando's friendship. This season has none of that feel. I'm just glad Hiro's out of medieval Japan and can quit it with the cherry blossoms thing.


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## Cor Azer (Nov 7, 2007)

Einan said:
			
		

> I think Angela Petrelli has the Voice.  Like Eden did in the first season.  She seemed to command Peter to remember and he did.  A very powerful and abusable ability.
> 
> EInan




I doubt Angela Petrelli used a power there at all. Peter doesn't have all his memories back - he doesn't know who Adam Monroe is yet. What (I suspect) happened is that he simply used his mind-reading to learn everything his Mom knows about him; he's got some memories back, but not everything. Remember, Mrs. Petrelli is quite adept at working with mind-readers (like she did with Parkman earlier in the season); she likely knew what sorts of things to think of to restore some of Peter's memories.


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## Steel_Wind (Nov 7, 2007)

I am also in favor of "The Voice" being Angela's power.

And it really DOES fit her character.


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## el-remmen (Nov 7, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> I am also in favor of "The Voice" being Angela's power.
> 
> And it really DOES fit her character.




I thought that last season when she basically had Nathan convinced  to allow the equivalent of a nuke to go off in NYC for most of the second half of it.


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## Fast Learner (Nov 7, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> I doubt Angela Petrelli used a power there at all. Peter doesn't have all his memories back - he doesn't know who Adam Monroe is yet. What (I suspect) happened is that he simply used his mind-reading to learn everything his Mom knows about him; he's got some memories back, but not everything. Remember, Mrs. Petrelli is quite adept at working with mind-readers (like she did with Parkman earlier in the season); she likely knew what sorts of things to think of to restore some of Peter's memories.



Exactly. It looked to me like Peter was reading her mind.

On Peter blowing up, what makes folks think his body was in any way harmed by the explosion? Remember when Ted was going nuclear in the Bennett family's house? As he was blowing out enough energy to burn Claire's skin away, _nothing_ bad was happening to him. He wasn't burned or anything. 

I don't see any reason to believe that "going nuclear" means the hero is actually damaged in the process.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 7, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> I doubt Angela Petrelli used a power there at all. Peter doesn't have all his memories back - he doesn't know who Adam Monroe is yet. What (I suspect) happened is that he simply used his mind-reading to learn everything his Mom knows about him; he's got some memories back, but not everything. Remember, Mrs. Petrelli is quite adept at working with mind-readers (like she did with Parkman earlier in the season); she likely knew what sorts of things to think of to restore some of Peter's memories.



That's possible - or Adam had Peters memory erased to give the appearance that he was an "old" friend, and Peter getting his memory back wrecks these plans now. 
(It's not an exclusive "or" - I think it is entirely possible that Peter never met Adam, at least not in a "friendly" manner)


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 7, 2007)

I am going to go out on a limb and say I think Peters memory erase was just plain and simple mind control by the company, they may have been aided by some powers but that is about it.  His mom, just used a trigger.  

Now, it is possible this was because someone wanted him to go into the future, just to get information for their plans.  Why do testing when you have someone that can see the results.


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 7, 2007)

Grymar said:
			
		

> Latest off-the-wall theory.
> 
> Elle gets Peter out of custody from the Company where he had been since the BOOM (he gets her electricity powers).  She and he team up to break Adam out.  The three vow to bring down the Company.
> 
> How Peter gets into the cargo container in Cork and why the Irishmen were looking to rob that container I don't yet know, but that's a start of a theory.





Elle is working for the company and, I think Bob is Elle's father. If she broke Peter out of jail why would she be trying to bring him back? 

Also the Irishmen were trying to steal a container full of IPods.


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 7, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Hence the earlier reference to Wolverine.  Wolverine was effectively vaporized once yet somehow regenerated from one single cell that somehow managed to survive.




Off topic

Would he not have regenerated without his claws and ademantium [SP] skeleton? Those were foreign objects in his body and not part of his DNA.


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 7, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> On Peter blowing up, what makes folks think his body was in any way harmed by the explosion? Remember when Ted was going nuclear in the Bennett family's house? As he was blowing out enough energy to burn Claire's skin away, _nothing_ bad was happening to him. He wasn't burned or anything.
> 
> I don't see any reason to believe that "going nuclear" means the hero is actually damaged in the process.




Yes, that is certainly the answer, with regard to Peter, but his situation led me to question about the other two. His situation is unique because he's got the nuclear power AND regeneration. We saw that Claire can be burned almost to a crisp and almost immediately regenerate, but what if she did completely disintegrate? Similarly, why not stick Adam in an industrial furnace and turn the temperature up to "extra crispy." Then, scatter the ashes at sea.

Remember Planescape: Torment? Your character was effectively immortal and could come back from pretty much anything, EXCEPT that if you compeltely destroyed his body that was the end of the game.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 7, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Off topic
> 
> Would he not have regenerated without his claws and ademantium [SP] skeleton? Those were foreign objects in his body and not part of his DNA.



during the Weapon X testing the process altered his DNA, Magnetto at one time pulled the metal from him, at which point we found out the claws are natural to him, being more spurs.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 7, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> Yes, that is certainly the answer, with regard to Peter, but his situation led me to question about the other two. His situation is unique because he's got the nuclear power AND regeneration. We saw that Claire can be burned almost to a crisp and almost immediately regenerate, but what if she did completely disintegrate? Similarly, why not stick Adam in an industrial furnace and turn the temperature up to "extra crispy." Then, scatter the ashes at sea.
> 
> Remember Planescape: Torment? Your character was effectively immortal and could come back from pretty much anything, EXCEPT that if you compeltely destroyed his body that was the end of the game.



Ever read the Lord of Light, the "soul" of a person was energy, it was transfer from one body to the next.  It was discussed in that book that IF a new body lasted long enough it would change to look like the person's original body.  Not saying it but WHAT IF...


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## DonTadow (Nov 7, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I am going to go out on a limb and say I think Peters memory erase was just plain and simple mind control by the company, they may have been aided by some powers but that is about it.  His mom, just used a trigger.
> 
> Now, it is possible this was because someone wanted him to go into the future, just to get information for their plans.  Why do testing when you have someone that can see the results.



Watching the preview frame by frame, we see the hatian push peter into the container (peter is not wearing the necklace) and then another frame with him telling something to peter and then peter has the necklace on (and is chained up).  Could the hatian have taken out peter that quickly on his own.   I think the hatian stopped working for the company last year too and when we meet the hatian, he has the virus.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 7, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Watching the preview frame by frame, we see the hatian push peter into the container (peter is not wearing the necklace) and then another frame with him telling something to peter and then peter has the necklace on (and is chained up).  Could the hatian have taken out peter that quickly on his own.   I think the hatian stopped working for the company last year too and when we meet the hatian, he has the virus.



We also know that the hatian has a relationship with Angela (Peter/Natan's mom), which I he has said was a higher power than HRG.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 7, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> during the Weapon X testing the process altered his DNA, Magnetto at one time pulled the metal from him, at which point we found out the claws are natural to him, being more spurs.




A development which has about as much resonance with me as Greedo Shot First.


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## Vocenoctum (Nov 7, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> On Peter blowing up, what makes folks think his body was in any way harmed by the explosion? Remember when Ted was going nuclear in the Bennett family's house? As he was blowing out enough energy to burn Claire's skin away, _nothing_ bad was happening to him. He wasn't burned or anything.




Indeed, it didn't even damage his clothing, did it?

What a specific power he has.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 7, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> A development which has about as much resonance with me as Greedo Shot First.



Me too


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## Ed_Laprade (Nov 7, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> A development which has about as much resonance with me as Greedo Shot First.



Me three!


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 7, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> A development which has about as much resonance with me as Greedo Shot First.





If only Hio would go back and prevent George Lucas from editing the film during the re-release....  Then again, it would probably suffice just to see him point at Lucas while saying "You are very bad person.  You are a villain.  A VILLLLLLAAAAAAINNNN!!!!"


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## el-remmen (Nov 7, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> A development which has about as much resonance with me as Greedo Shot First.




Hell, I 'm so old school I'm still annoyed at Frank Miller for putting Wolverine in Japan for his first limited series.  He hasn't seemed to be able to shake ninjas ever since!


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## Krug (Nov 8, 2007)

Uh oh next ep is Four Months Ago...


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## Taelorn76 (Nov 8, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> during the Weapon X testing the process altered his DNA, Magnetto at one time pulled the metal from him, at which point we found out the claws are natural to him, being more spurs.




I do remember the claw bones now. 
Thanks


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## DonTadow (Nov 8, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> A development which has about as much resonance with me as Greedo Shot First.



Wow, one of my favorite developments of the character in the last 20 years.  Must admit it has brought about some good storylines.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 9, 2007)

A thought occured to me: 
Can Adam be the forefather of all Heroes?


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## Mark (Nov 9, 2007)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> A thought occured to me:
> Can Adam be the forefather of all Heroes?





I think Adam is Claire's dad.  And that Peter and Sylar are related, perhaps both actually sons of Peter's father (Angela's husband).  The Haitian must be related to the old guy Peter nursed in season one, and flyboy must be Nathan's illegitimate kid, too.  Just like with Matt and his dad, I think since the powers are genetic, we can trace/match the families based on them, too.  The girl with the voice in the first season might also have been Angela's kid somehow if Angela has the voice.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 9, 2007)

Mark said:
			
		

> I think Adam is Claire's dad.  And that Peter and Sylar are related, perhaps both actually sons of Peter's father (Angela's husband).  The Haitian must be related to the old guy Peter nursed in season one, and flyboy must be Nathan's illegitimate kid, too.  Just like with Matt and his dad, I think since the powers are genetic, we can trace/match the families based on them, too.  The girl with the voice in the first season might also have been Angela's kid somehow if Angela has the voice.





There are some problems with the genetic lineage powers considering that we do know of several instances where the parents powers are known and their child do not have simular powers. For instance, how do you explain how different Miccah's abilities are compared to DL and Nikki?  What about Molly's parents who Sylar brain munched?  If they had a power like Molly's then why did he need Mohinder during season 1?  How is it that Nathan and Clair's mom can produce a child with regeneration when when one of them was able to fly and the other was able to create fire?


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## Fast Learner (Nov 9, 2007)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> A thought occured to me:
> Can Adam be the forefather of all Heroes?



That was my theory when, a couple of weeks ago, I prophesied that Adam = Kensei (either her or on another board where I discuss Heroes).

Noah = gatherer, Adam = progenitor.


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## Elodan (Nov 9, 2007)

Mark said:
			
		

> I think Adam is Claire's dad.  And that Peter and Sylar are related, perhaps both actually sons of Peter's father (Angela's husband).  The Haitian must be related to the old guy Peter nursed in season one, and flyboy must be Nathan's illegitimate kid, too.  Just like with Matt and his dad, I think since the powers are genetic, we can trace/match the families based on them, too.  The girl with the voice in the first season might also have been Angela's kid somehow if Angela has the voice.




Wasn't it established that Nathan is Claire's dad?  (that makes your flyboy theory extra creepy)


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## Mark (Nov 10, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> There are some problems with the genetic lineage powers considering that we do know of several instances where the parents powers are known and their child do not have simular powers. For instance, how do you explain how different Miccah's abilities are compared to DL and Nikki?  What about Molly's parents who Sylar brain munched?  If they had a power like Molly's then why did he need Mohinder during season 1?  How is it that Nathan and Clair's mom can produce a child with regeneration when when one of them was able to fly and the other was able to create fire?





I think two mutant parents who have powers produce a different mutation but a single mutant parent just passes along the one he or she has.




			
				Elodan said:
			
		

> Wasn't it established that Nathan is Claire's dad?  (that makes your flyboy theory extra creepy)





I think that might be false information, a red herring, to keep us thinking elsewise. I think the trailerpark gal had a kid she gave up but that it was flyboy.  Perhaps Linderman, unbeknowst to Angela, switched the children at birth to help hide Kensei's lineage.  Maybe Kensei is even the son of Linderman and the natural progression of that power is to be able to heal things beyond your own body.  This would make Linderman Claire's grandfather and Kensei's father.  They seem to be having trouble coming up with new twists for the old gang, since once they are introduced and we discover their background, what else is there?  This theory allows for a rather big additional twist that would effectively put Claire back into play between a good side and an evil side which seems to be what they try to do with her character, considering her HRG connection and then her Nathan connection, and now Kensei (IMO).


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## Remus Lupin (Nov 10, 2007)

Elodan said:
			
		

> Wasn't it established that Nathan is Claire's dad?  (that makes your flyboy theory extra creepy)




Yes, I'll take my stalkerific-obsessive boyfriend with a side of extra-creepy please.


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