# Appeal to Support EN World!



## Morrus (Sep 25, 2009)

As you probably know, EN World is a very popular website - and it costs a LOT of money to keep running from month to month. To that end, there are a bunch of "monetized" aspects to the site - from Community Supporter accounts to EN Publishing products and advertising opportunities.

Unfortunately, revenue from all areas has dropped to almost nothing in recent months. This may be because of the economy, or some other factor, but it's certainly taking its toll! Unfortunately, costs haven't reduced to compensate!

So this post is an appeal of sorts. If there's anything EN World offers that you've been putting off buying, or if you weren't aware of the range of things we do to raise funds, think of this as kind of a reminder. Naturally, EN World will always be free to use; these things are, and always will be, optional; but we very much appreciate when folks choose to spend some of their hard earned gaming budget here on EN World and help keep this site running!

With that in mind, here's a brief breakdown of the various things we do to raise funds. If any of these appeal to you, please do not hesitate! We appreciate that in this economic climate there are fewer funds to go round, but we'd ask you to consider whether you get enough from EN World to consider investing in it as part of your gaming budget, and whether the site's existence has as much value to you as, say, another RPG book or some miniatures.


First up, we have EN Publishing, EN World's publishing arm. EN Publishing produces a bunch of stuff. From EN World's affiliate storefront on RPGNow, you can buy PDFs for both 4E and 3.5 - ove rht e years we've produced over a hundred of them! Not least of these is the War of the Burning Sky Campaign Saga, a 12-part adventure path, which is available in both D&D 3.5 and 4E versions! But that's not all - ENP has produced dozens of excellent sourcebooks for D&D 3.5, some of which are critically acclaimed, and many of which have been bestellers in the past.
Community Supporter Accounts are another great way to support the site. They get you a few perks such as use of the search feature, a custom usertitle and avatar, and allow you to switch off ads. And, even better, there's a special sale on for EN World's 10-year anniversary if you pick up the 3-year Community Supporter Account!
Advertising! If you're a plublisher or retailer, you may appreciate the advertising opportunities EN World has to offer. From banner ads to ads in a targetted newsletter going out to nearly 85,000 RPG fans, you can use EN World to get you message across and support the site at the same time.
Our RPGNow affiliate store is another way to support the site. If you're buying a PDF from RPGNow or DTRPG, consider using EN World's affiliate store instead. It's the exact same store, with the exact same products for the exact same price, but EN World gets a small percentage of the sale - essentally enabling you to suppor tthe site at no cost to yourself!
Please consider these options - and remember that every little helps, especially in this economic climate. 


Finally, if you are feeling particularly generous, we are always very grateful for donations! We can accept them via PayPal to russmorrissey@gmail.com (if you have a couple of useless doallars hanging around in your PayPal account, this is a good way to get rid of them!) 

Alternatively, simply click on the button below to donate. You DON'T need a PayPal account - a debit or credit card will be fine!



​ 
Thank you for taking the time to read this, and I hope it hasn't been too intrusive, and that you consider diverting some of your gaming budget towards your (hopefully!) favourite RPG website!​


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## MichaelSomething (Sep 25, 2009)

Do you accept money orders?  I like to avoid using credit/debit cards online if posssible.


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## Nifft (Sep 25, 2009)

Donation sent.

Cheers, -- N


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## Halivar (Sep 25, 2009)

MichaelSomething said:


> Do you accept money orders?  I like to avoid using credit/debit cards online if posssible.



I use my PayPal account, which is tied to my checking account. It's pretty safe.


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## Henry (Sep 25, 2009)

Donation sent, with my thanks for the most awesome site from here to across the street from me (going clockwise around the earth first, of course ).


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## Mistwell (Sep 25, 2009)

I am happy to donate.  Perhaps I could even send an EnWorld mug or mouse pad to people who give a lot in donations.

I do think the donations have reduced because of how slow the site has been for these past several months.


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## Treebore (Sep 25, 2009)

I need to remember to go through ENWorld when I buy PDF's. I have over $100.00 worth in my cart for October. 

My "loaded cart" will still show up when I go through ENWorld, right?

Edit: Why yes it does!


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## Morrus (Sep 25, 2009)

Treebore said:


> I need to remember to go through ENWorld when I buy PDF's. I have over $100.00 worth in my cart for October.
> 
> My "loaded cart" will still show up when I go through ENWorld, right?
> 
> Edit: Why yes it does!




Excellent!  That means $10 for EN World!


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## Treebore (Sep 25, 2009)

Its that significant?!? Dang! I will have to make sure I remember to go via ENWorld for my PDF purchases, if I had you guys would be close to $100 better off over the past year if I had.

Then again, I think I bought most of my Fat Dragon stuff via his links here on ENWorld, so I think you did get most, if not all, of those sales.


So for you PDF companies out there! When you post product releases give ENWorld store links for the PDF's!

Which I think most of them have done. So maybe I have bought more via the ENWorld store than I initially thought. I wonder if I can find that out via my purchase histories? Time to go look.


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## Morrus (Sep 25, 2009)

Treebore said:


> Its that significant?!? Dang! I will have to make sure I remember to go via ENWorld for my PDF purchases, if I had you guys would be close to $100 better off over the past year if I had.




Just imagine how different the situation would be if a hundred of our 85,000 members thought like that!


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## Treebore (Sep 25, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Just imagine how different the situation would be if a hundred of our 85,000 members thought like that!





yeah, I imagine $10,000 would be darn helpful.


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## mach1.9pants (Sep 25, 2009)

Man I wish I had thought about the PDF thing, I will ensure I only use ENW/RPGNow site from now on.

In fact I will use this as an excuse to pick up a couple of PDFs I had been delaying.

EDIT: just over 15 of New Zealand's finest dollars on it's way to ENW


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## Roland55 (Sep 25, 2009)

*After Some Thought*

I don't know if I'm a typical poster on ENWorld.

I'm old, I'm a scientist and an engineer, I'm a retired military man ... and I haven't yet been able to "get into" 4E (I've tried and I keep trying).  I actually let my Community Supporter account lapse over the summer, while I thought about these sorts of issues.

I've decided this place is worth supporting.  Even if I never really "get" 4E, ENWorld is a place that should remain open; a neutral zone where everyone who cares about any RPG and especially any version of D&D can come to talk, to discuss, and even to vent (just a bit).

I've just popped for a 3 year CS account, and I'll remember to purchase my pdfs through Morrus.

Long live ENWorld.


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## Wereserpent (Sep 26, 2009)

Ah man, if I had known that I could have bought my PDFs through ENWorld I would have.


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## darjr (Sep 26, 2009)

Can I add to my supporter account? If I pick another year or so?


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## KB9JMQ (Sep 26, 2009)

Donation sent.
Thanks for the site.


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## FATDRAGONGAMES (Sep 26, 2009)

Donation sent Russ!


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2009)

mach1.9pants said:


> EDIT: just over 15 of New Zealand's finest dollars on it's way to ENW




Ah, the finest dollars!  I'll frame them! 



Roland55 said:


> I've decided this place is worth supporting.
> I've just popped for a 3 year CS account, and I'll remember to purchase my pdfs through Morrus.




Thank you!



darjr said:


> Can I add to my supporter account? If I pick another year or so?




You should be able to.  if anything goes wrong, I can easily manually fix it!


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## tuxgeo (Sep 26, 2009)

Money sent for 3. Can I change my customizable User Title daily, filling it with varying, randomized nonsense words to increase (to 100%?) the portion of the userbase who doubt my sanity?

Edit: Meant to add -- should this be Stickied?


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## mach1.9pants (Sep 26, 2009)

tuxgeo said:


> Edit: Meant to add -- should this be Stickied?




Seconded!


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## TheNovaLord (Sep 26, 2009)

i too have had very short affair with 4e, so dont come here so much anymore, though PF category may change that

had no idea of the rpgnow connection, where i do spend a bit. will use that from now on


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## Mathew_Freeman (Sep 26, 2009)

Just signed up for a 3 year Community Supporter account.

Russ, I had a problem with PayPal earlier in the year but it should now all be sorted out. I hope it'll go through this time and if it doesn't I'll chase it up with PayPal myself.

£60 for three years is only £20 a year - hell, I spend £270 a _month_ travelling to work, I think I can make a budget to afford this!


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## RangerWickett (Sep 26, 2009)

Sticky threads tend to vanish from people's perception after their first glance, so for right now it's probably best not to make this thread sticky.

It's been so long since I've bought anything at RPGNow. I guess I ought to take a look at what's out there these days.


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## Belen (Sep 26, 2009)

I got Alenda a 3-tear CS account and I also sent a separate donation.  I would have posted yesterday, but the site was too slow.


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## Tortoise (Sep 26, 2009)

Hey Russ,
What's the chance of pre-ordering the 4e hardbound War of the Burning Sky?

Jim


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## pawsplay (Sep 27, 2009)

Cash flow issues. I'll be becoming a supporter and making a couple of purchases soon.


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## EricNoah (Sep 27, 2009)

Donated some cash ... and a bump!


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## weem (Sep 27, 2009)

Don't have much money at the moment (just bought our first house) but I did make the following image and have placed it in my sig linking it to this thread - I have uploaded the image incase anyone else wants to use it to do the same...


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## mach1.9pants (Sep 28, 2009)

weem said:


> Don't have much money at the moment (just bought our first house) but I did make the following image and have placed it in my sig linking it to this thread - I have uploaded the image incase anyone else wants to use it to do the same...




How do you make it clickable/linkable in your sig?


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## weem (Sep 28, 2009)

Copy the URL of the thread.

Then, when editing your sig, select (highlight) the image code and hit the blue world icon with the paper clip on it - paste in that URL and hit OK.

That should do it


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## Holy Bovine (Sep 28, 2009)

Tortoise said:


> Hey Russ,
> What's the chance of pre-ordering the 4e hardbound War of the Burning Sky?
> 
> Jim




Oooooooohhhh do I want _that_.  The little bit I have read about WotBS has me chomping at the bit to run it.


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## garyh (Sep 28, 2009)

weem, that's a great idea!  I'm joining the club.  

I'm already a Community Supporter, but I'm now considering extending my CS subscription and/or subscribing to _War of the Burning Sky 4e_.  I keep hearing good things about WotBS, and with my wife already running Scales of War for me and our friends, WotBS would give _me_ an AP to run.


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## mach1.9pants (Sep 28, 2009)

weem said:


> Copy the URL of the thread.
> 
> Then, when editing your sig, select (highlight) the image code and hit the blue world icon with the paper clip on it - paste in that URL and hit OK.
> 
> That should do it




Cheers!


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## Qwillion (Sep 28, 2009)

*Community Supporter Account updated*

Added another year of community supporter.

I always try to direct links I post on Enworld to the enworld store, unless it a patronage project of course but since our projects eventually go public the retail links eventually go to the enworld store.


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## Derulbaskul (Sep 28, 2009)

I've been here since the very first boards but am not exactly an active member of the community... but it's high time I became a community supporter so I've bought a three-year membership.


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## D.M.T. (Sep 28, 2009)

Got just one month supporter for the moment, planning on extending it soon. Always enjoy reading ENWorld forums, even though the server has been very very slow.


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## tuxgeo (Sep 28, 2009)

weem said:


> < snip >
> I did make the following image and have placed it in my sig linking it to this thread - I have uploaded the image in case anyone else wants to use it to do the same...



weem, that is a great idea (as has already been observed). 
(Of course, I just had to be different.)


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## avin (Sep 28, 2009)

Kinda short on monet at this moment but just paid for a community supporter for one month, most likely will do that again next month, etc


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## Stereofm (Sep 28, 2009)

Decided to join as a full community supporter.

Hope it will help


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## Henrix (Sep 28, 2009)

I've rejoined the ranks of community supporters as well! 

(Money has been really tight for some time now )

War of the Burning Sky is starting to look like a real interesting alternative as well, as it seems I might need to start a new campaign soon.)


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2009)

Right now, I'm looking into the possibility of including ENP's PDFs in the CSA account.  So, for $3 per month, you get access to PDFs produced by ENP.  I'm currently thinking I'll add one every month or so.  

They'll still be available for purchase at various online stores, but I hope this would be an incentive to subscribe.  There's a selection of both 3.5, 4E, and even some system neutral products, so while not everything will appeal to everyone, there's hopefully something of interest for most.


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## Nifft (Sep 28, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Right now, I'm looking into the possibility of including ENP's PDFs in the CSA account.  So, for $3 per month, you get access to PDFs produced by ENP.  I'm currently thinking I'll add one every month or so.
> 
> They'll still be available for purchase at various online stores, but I hope this would be an incentive to subscribe.  There's a selection of both 3.5, 4E, and even some system neutral products, so while not everything will appeal to everyone, there's hopefully something of interest for most.



 IMHO you should do this more like the DDI: people should get access to an online-friendly version with the subscription, but they shouldn't get a pile of PDFs for $3.

Cheers, -- N


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2009)

Nifft said:


> IMHO you should do this more like the DDI: people should get access to an online-friendly version with the subscription, but they shouldn't get a pile of PDFs for $3.
> 
> Cheers, -- N




Well, we don't have the resources to play around with the formats.  We have to use what we have.

If we manage to get a good level of continual subscribers, we can look at doing fancy things like that.  I'm working on the numbers, but I'll be setting a target subscription level by a certain deadline.


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## Lord Xtheth (Sep 28, 2009)

I fully intend to re-activate my CSA. I just need to eat and pay rent first.


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## Elodan (Sep 28, 2009)

I messed up my renewal.

Since my wife isn't working I can't  afford to to renew my CS all at once, but with the $3/month option I can.

Not seeing a option outside of the 1-year and 3-year ones, I decided I could afford to give $3/month and commit for 3 years so I went with the 3-year option.  Looks like I was charged the full $75 now (again, I realize I messed up).  

Morrus, can you refund $72 of my payment and convert me to the $3/month plan?

Thanks.


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## ScorpiusRisk (Sep 28, 2009)

The 3 dollars a month made this much easier for me to do sooner.


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## Lord Xtheth (Sep 28, 2009)

Just noticed the $3 per month offer, I'm back on board!


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## Jack99 (Sep 28, 2009)

I think that the one-month subscription model is a really good idea. I hope it pays off.


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## Jupp (Sep 28, 2009)

Since I already have a CS until 2011 I've just send 100 bucks into Morrus' general direction 

Oh, and just as a tip: 

Why dont't you add a "donation bar" to the site like like they did at mythtvtalk.com. I think it makes it quite transparent for everyone how much money is needed to keep the site up and running and it might prove as some kind of incentive for people to donate some money to keep ENWorld above sea level.

Edit says: Correction: Not until 2011 but I've just got myself the new CS subscription  . Sometimes it pays off to read those bold, fat information bars at the top of a forum.


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2009)

Elodan said:


> I messed up my renewal.
> 
> Since my wife isn't working I can't afford to to renew my CS all at once, but with the $3/month option I can.
> 
> ...




Not without more information!

If you forward me your PayPal receipt, I can hit the refund button at PayPal and manually take you off the 3-year plan.  Then you can resubscribe.


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2009)

I have added a product to the CSA downloads section!  It's book 1 of the METAMORPHOSIS trilogy, a fantastic novel set in the outer planes by Aeryn "Blackdirge" Rudel.


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## Elodan (Sep 28, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Not without more information!
> 
> If you forward me your PayPal receipt, I can hit the refund button at PayPal and manually take you off the 3-year plan.  Then you can resubscribe.




Thanks Morrus.

My only problem is that I can't see the month at a time option.  This is what I get (in both IE and Firefox):


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2009)

Elodan said:


> Thanks Morrus.
> 
> My only problem is that I can't see the month at a time option. This is what I get (in both IE and Firefox):




What about now?  It looks like you somehow managed to register without ever confirming your email address!  I've moved you from "Waiting Email Confirmation" to "Registered User", which I hope will fix it.


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## Herremann the Wise (Sep 29, 2009)

Hello Morrus,

Signed up (finally) for as long as the site's active. The subscription method works for me and I hope it works for a lot of others too. Thanks for the option and thanks for the site!

Best Regards
Herremann the Wise


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## beldar1215 (Sep 29, 2009)

I just re-activated my account. The monthly rate works great for me. I hope more people will be able to get accounts now!

Beldar


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## darjr (Sep 29, 2009)

What about a sandbox? Subscribers would get access and each month would have new content. The sandbox would slowly get filled out and detailed with little plots and places all the way up to big connecting plots and places. It could also get multistated and have guest creators.

Maybe make it useful so someone could just yoink some things for their campaign in a pinch or run with the whole thing.


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

We have a target of 1000 subscribers by Christmas to know we're on track to making EN World sustainable long-term.  That's just over 10 per day.  So far, we have 19 subscribers, so we're ahead of target for the first day - although these things always drop off drastically after the first day or two.


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## Elodan (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> What about now?  It looks like you somehow managed to register without ever confirming your email address!  I've moved you from "Waiting Email Confirmation" to "Registered User", which I hope will fix it.




Not sure how I managed that.

Everything is good now.  Thanks for all your help.

-Tom


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## MacMathan (Sep 29, 2009)

Renewed my CSA, glad to be back


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## Votan (Sep 29, 2009)

I just bought a 3 year CSA on September 10th (after many years of liking the site I'd decided that I should give soemthing back to support it).  

But I love the $3 version and it would have gotten me much sooner had it been around.  Good luck with the goals!


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## Jack99 (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> We have a target of 1000 subscribers by Christmas to know we're on track to making EN World sustainable long-term.  That's just over 10 per day.  So far, we have 19 subscribers, so we're ahead of target for the first day - although these things always drop off drastically after the first day or two.




ENworld needs to pull in $3000 per month to be sustainable?


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## drothgery (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> We have a target of 1000 subscribers by Christmas to know we're on track to making EN World sustainable long-term. That's just over 10 per day. So far, we have 19 subscribers, so we're ahead of target for the first day - although these things always drop off drastically after the first day or two.




I suspect a lot of those who would subscribe are in the middle of a CSA they bought from the last fund-raising drive; I know I am.


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## Henrix (Sep 29, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> ENworld needs to pull in $3000 per month to be sustainable?




Exactly - no more than that? All this awesomeness for $3000 a month?

Morrus needs a raise!


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## Henrix (Sep 29, 2009)

Another idea might be to make RPG Now store link a little more visible - I often have to hunt for it even though I know it's there.


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## hewligan (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I have added a product to the CSA downloads section!  It's book 1 of the METAMORPHOSIS trilogy, a fantastic novel set in the outer planes by Aeryn "Blackdirge" Rudel.




I just want to confirm that this really is an excellent novel. I loved it. Bought and read all three on my iPod Touch. Great to actually root for a thoroughly evil bunch of dudes!

I already have a CSA, otherwise I would have added to your numbers, but when it runs out ...


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## avin (Sep 29, 2009)

I have paid for a month by Paypal and nothing happened. Could you confirm the payment, Morrus?


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> ENworld needs to pull in $3000 per month to be sustainable?




It needs to pull in much more than that, because if I'm gonna do this for another decade it needs to turn into a real, solid business. It needs to start paying people (such as a non-volunteer tech admin), it needs to increase the amount of professional content it offers in the form of columnists, etc., and a whole other bunch of stuff.

This is about a long-term sustainable plan of growth.  EN World is growing up and becoming professional!  It _has_ to if I'm gonna keep doing it!


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

avin said:


> I have paid for a month by Paypal and nothing happened. Could you confirm the payment, Morrus?




If you forward me your PayPal receipt I can check it for you (I can't just match it to your username as PayPal doesn't know your username).


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## SolitonMan (Sep 29, 2009)

Subscribed.

I don't post here extremely often, but I'm reading the forums pretty much every day I'm at a computer.  $3 a month for this site is a bargain!


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## Henrix (Sep 29, 2009)

I just saw that Fat Dragon Games has donated a Dungeon Tiles set (pdf) for all members to download!

My love for FDG increases yet again!


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

Henrix said:


> I just saw that Fat Dragon Games has donated a Dungeon Tiles set (pdf) for all members to download!
> 
> My love for FDG increases yet again!




Yep!  That's incredibly kind of them!

There will be new content every single month.  The content itself will normally retail for more than the $3 of the subscription price.


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## Jack99 (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> It needs to pull in much more than that, because if I'm gonna do this for another decade it needs to turn into a real, solid business. It needs to start paying people (such as a non-volunteer tech admin), it needs to increase the amount of professional content it offers in the form of columnists, etc., and a whole other bunch of stuff.
> 
> This is about a long-term sustainable plan of growth.  EN World is growing up and becoming professional!  It _has_ to if I'm gonna keep doing it!




Very interesting indeed. So right now, it only pays for you (and your vodka)?


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Very interesting indeed. So right now, it only pays for you (and your vodka)?




I wish it did even that!

I'm working on a solid business plan at the moment. I'm getting married next year and by then this site will either support me or I'll need to do something else, because it's not fair on Sharon the way she has to subsidise the place (indirectly). It's been OK for the last decade, but my life is changing, I'll have responsibilities, etc. and can't continue treating this as a hobby. The business plan will feature:

- More professional content to give added value to the site (columnists, software, web tools, etc.)
- Pay me a salary. A decent one!
- Pay other staff for real jobs - first a tech guy whose job it is to ensure the site runs fast all the time, then web coders and other staff.

I'm in the process of creating landmarks to measure progress. 1000 subscribers by Xmas is essential at Stage 1. I'm also creating landmarks in terms of advertising and so forth. So the site will have specific targets it needs to meet.

The benefit? A happier admin, a smooth site, excellent content, solid monthly revenue to guarantee longevity - all the usual things associate with a successful business.

We're on track at the moment, but it's only been a day! We need 10 new subscribers every day until Xmas, roughly. We got 40 in the first day, but that will slow down drastically; the question is whether it slows to less than 10 per day.

We're also going to have seasonal themed events and contents for subscribers - pay artists to draw your character dressed as Santa, maybe (OK, that's maybe a silly one, but you get the idea).  I plan to work with publishers to have competitions etc. regularly.  Lots of ideas floating round at the moment which will be committed to a paper as a solid plan.


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## weem (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I wish it did even that!
> 
> I'm working on a solid business plan at the moment... <snip> ...Lots of ideas floating round at the moment which will be committed to a paper as a solid plan.




This is really cool to hear (read? hehe)...

I have been in the web design/development business for a while (1999-ish as my actual full time job) and have wondered when/if ENW would/could take that next step from hobby to business - the community is here for sure, and there is a lot of potential - TONS of different things you could do.

Count me as excited


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## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I'm working on a solid business plan at the moment. I'm getting married next year and by then this site will either support me or I'll need to do something else, because it's not fair on Sharon the way she has to subsidise the place (indirectly). It's been OK for the last decade, but my life is changing, I'll have responsibilities, etc. and can't continue treating this as a hobby. The business plan will feature:
> 
> - More professional content to give added value to the site (columnists, software, web tools, etc.)
> - Pay me a salary. A decent one!
> ...




I commend your efforts to turn your (probably full time) hobby into a successful business.  If you can pull it off, you'll be living the dream 

I'd recommend few things

*Offer a free month as a community supporter*
MMOs, WotC's DDI, and many other on-line subscriptions offer a free month to try things out before a user purchases a subscription.  When you are ready to launch ENWorld++, I'd offer that to encourage those who hesitate to purchase on-line subscriptions a chance to try it out.  I'd also spell out what an ENWorld++ member is getting over a normal user.

*Call for Community Content*
I'm sure many of us who read Enworld would love a chance to produce material for enworld.  I'd issue an open call for submissions (quarterly perhaps), select the best items from those submissions, and offer them to the community at large (with a hefty discount for community supporters).  

*Move the Profit Making Icons*
I come here for the message boards and after a brief scan on the front page, click directly on the forum icon.  When your call to look at ENWorld for pdf purchases was made, I had to look around to find the ENWorld pdf section (at the far right of the icon bar).  I'd put that for-profit icon right next to the most popular icon you have 

*Remove the request for donations*
If this is going to be a for-profit venture, I'd remove the request for donations.  Personally, I'd never donate to money to WotC, Blizzard, or Amazon (the companies where I spend the majority of my dollars for on-line services) and would consider it tacky if they asked for donations.  For profit businesses, in my mind, should live or die by their services and goods, not by the generosity of the consumer.

*Explore OGL Software*
We've seen on this very board the split between 3 and 4.  WotC provides a good set of tools for 4E (Compendium, Character Builder, etc).  There is no reason you couldn't do the same for 3.X content from OGL publishers and offer that as a benefit to Community Supporters.  It might be difficult to get WotC owned 3E material up (as they might see it as direct competition with DDI), but I'm willing to think an arrangement could be reach with companies like AEG and Green Ronin.

Again, best of luck and I look forward to seeing where you take ENWorld.


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## BLACKDIRGE (Sep 29, 2009)

I don't know if that has been brought up, but there is a very simple thing that publishers can do to support the site. Whenever you post an RPGNOW link to a product in your post, make sure that link goes through the EN World PDF store. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it doesn't affect your sales at all, but EN World gets a percentage of the sale. 

All you have to do to make sure that a link goes through the EN World PDF store is add "enworld." before rpgnow in your link, as shown in the link to WotBS #1 below.

*http ://enworld.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=62519*

BD


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

Just a note also, guys - you can rate and comment on material in the CSA only section (at present the Demon Lord and Dungeon Tiles).  This is a good way to make sure I've got feedback on the type of stuff you like and so I can keep the CSA good value for you!


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## Jack99 (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Snip the future of ENworld




Thanks for sharing. It sounds as if it will indeed be an interesting year. Best of luck with the venture.


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## erisred (Sep 29, 2009)

*Community Supporter Account*



Morrus said:


> Just a note also, guys - you can rate and comment on material in the CSA only section (at present the Demon Lord and Dungeon Tiles).  This is a good way to make sure I've got feedback on the type of stuff you like and so I can keep the CSA good value for you!




Morrus, I'd like to resubscribe to enWorld, but the *only* option appears to be a recurring 1 month term. I'd much rather subscribe for a year (or more) than have a recurring payment taken each month. 

Is that not possible any more?


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

erisred said:


> Morrus, I'd like to resubscribe to enWorld, but the *only* option appears to be a recurring 1 month term. I'd much rather subscribe for a year (or more) than have a recurring payment taken each month.
> 
> Is that not possible any more?




I'm afraid not.  The yearly payment has been phased out in favour of the new, smaller payments.   One thing which is vital for cash flow is the ability to project an accurate monthly revenue, which yearly subscriptions make pretty much impossible.


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## Mark (Sep 29, 2009)

Where do we check how much time is left on our accounts?


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## Jack99 (Sep 29, 2009)

Mark said:


> Where do we check how much time is left on our accounts?




My Account (upper left corner) then go all the way to the bottom in the left column and look for *paid subscriptions*. Click that and it should say so in the box called *active subscriptions*.


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## El Mahdi (Sep 29, 2009)

Just a couple of quick questions and an idea:

For those who already have CS accounts (whether 12 months or more) will they automatically renew or when the account expires will we have to do a new 1 month subscription?  If it won't auto renew, is there a way to set this up for existing CS accounts?


A good incentive for CS acount purchases could maybe be increased rep power, or the ability to give out XP to more people per day.  Also, how about a one time XP award for new CS accounts?


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

El Mahdi said:


> Just a couple of quick questions and an idea:
> 
> For those who already have CS accounts (whether 12 months or more) will they automatically renew or when the account expires will we have to do a new 1 month subscription? If it won't auto renew, is there a way to set this up for existing CS accounts?




No. Yikes, imagine what people would say if I took money from people without their permission!

No, it's not technically (or, in fact, legally) possible without express permission to renew at the time of subscription.

Best I can do is put that status thing in the top right as a reminder.  I can fancy it up and make it more blatant, maybe.




> A good incentive for CS acount purchases could maybe be increased rep power, or the ability to give out XP to more people per day. Also, how about a one time XP award for new CS accounts?




An interesting idea. That hadn't even occured to me. Good thinking, Batman!


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## El Mahdi (Sep 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> ...Best I can do is put that status thing in the top right as a reminder. I can fancy it up and make it more blatant, maybe.




I noticed that status thing right off so I think it's obviousl enough (at least for me).  But hey, if you want to go fancy it up I won't complain.

I guess I'll just have to keep an eye on my status.  I don't want to lose my cool little user title (well, cool to me anyways). 





Morrus said:


> An interesting idea. That hadn't even occured to me. Good thinking, Batman!




Thanks, and you're welcome.


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## Jack7 (Sep 29, 2009)

I think in the future I'm also gonna buy all my .pdf's from here. I don't think I've ever got a .pdf from somewhere else that I probably couldn't have gotten from here. Maybe one or two form particular game companies. Maybe not, haven't researched it. Course, I didn't know about this place all that long ago either.

Maybe after I get back from assignment I'll try and help out other ways as well.


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## Oryan77 (Sep 29, 2009)

I don't mean to sound ignorant, but how much does it cost on average to run a forum site with thousands of users? I never would have thought it would require $3000 a month for a website to comfortably operate. It costs $36,000 a year to pay for a server and bandwidth for a website the size of this? Wow. 

Do people hire programmers to maintain the sites? I just assumed the webmaster did it, or had friends volunteer to maintain it.


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2009)

Oryan77 said:


> I don't mean to sound ignorant, but how much does it cost on average to run a forum site with thousands of users?




I have no idea. The only statistic relevant to me is how much this site costs. I'm sure it varies massively.



> I never would have thought it would require $3000 a month for a website to comfortably operate. It costs $36,000 a year to pay for a server and bandwidth for a website the size of this? Wow.




You missed some important points in this thread. I've been doing this for free for ten years. I get married next year; I have responsibliities. Given that it's pretty much full-time, if it doesn't pay my half of the marriage, it goes. It's OK if I go hungry; it's not OK if that means my future wife goes hungry, too. 



> Do people hire programmers to maintain the sites?




Of course. I've hired all sorts of people over the years.



> I just assumed the webmaster did it, or had friends volunteer to maintain it.




We've been using volunteers until now. That's not fair on the volunteers.

Better that we pay a real tech admin who is accountable for site performance. 

I can't spend another ten years depserately pleading with people who can only spare an hour two weeks on Thursday to fix a problem which crops up! 

Essentially, the server and bandwidth costs are not important; it's the thousands of dollars in _people_ costs which matters.


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## samursus (Sep 29, 2009)

First time Community supporter here.... great idea with the $3/month!

Good luck with the fundraising... great forum site.


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## Quantarum (Sep 30, 2009)

I consider $3 a month a huge bargain.

-Q.


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## Oryan77 (Sep 30, 2009)

Morrus said:


> You missed some important points in this thread.




Oh of course...I read up to page 3 of this thread over the last 2 days and it was mostly people saying they bought an account or whatever. So I skipped page 4 and replied to the thread. Sure enough I skip over the posts that actually answered my question. That always happens to me 

I might figure out how I can pay for some advertising here then. I've never paid for a banner ad so I'll have to figure that out. I was a little confused on how it works when I browsed over that section, but I'll see if I can figure it out and set something up soon.


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## Remathilis (Sep 30, 2009)

Took the plunge. 3/month was too hard to pass up.

Doing my part for Enworld!


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## Jack99 (Sep 30, 2009)

Morrus said:


> lots of even more interesting stuff



I must admit that I am surprised. Even considering I spend a fair amount of time on this site, I never understood that you were unemployed and that all you were doing was this.

Not that it changes anything for me. I was just surprised, that's all.


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## caudor (Sep 30, 2009)

Count me in.  The 3/month is an excellent idea!  And it was too good to pass up.

I hope to EN World sees 1000 community supporters soon!


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## jeffh (Sep 30, 2009)

The new subscription model is smart. I was wondering if something like this was on the way as soon as I saw Morrus' comment the other day that steady income was needed, just before the new appeal first appeared on the front page.


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## Jack7 (Sep 30, 2009)

> Given that it's pretty much full-time, if it doesn't pay my half of the marriage, it goes. It's OK if I go hungry; it's not OK if that means my future wife goes hungry, too.





It's certainly not okay for you to go hungry, nor for your wife or potential children to go hungry. Those points are well made, as far as I'm concerned.



> Essentially, the server and bandwidth costs are not important; it's the thousands of dollars in people costs which matters.




Yeah they are. Both are very imprtant if you're gonna succeed as primarily an internet operation.

With those things in mind I'm gonna make some business suggestions to ya. Maybe you've thought of these already, maybe you haven't. Use what you find useful and take them for what they are worth.


1. Develop a business operating budget for this website, including a profit take. As a percentage of earnings. No matter the percentage, and it has to be a livable percentage, keep strict account of all expenses, for tax purposes, and all earnings. Reinvest what earnings you can towards expanding your operation with such expansion geared towards profitable aspects, sections, or divisions of your overall operation. Businesses either expand, or they die. It's that simple. But expand profitably, not recklessly. Reckless expansion is sometimes just as deadly as no expansion. Sometimes it's worse from a debt generation perspective.

2. Develop as good and as stable a base of advertising support as you can generate, sell, and market.

3. Run this operation like a true business. I am not speaking about the professionalism of your website presentation, which is already quite high and in my opinion exceeds in usefulness (and I suspect devoted user popularity) that of say, much of the WOTC website. I am saying however run this place like a professional enterprise (if that is what you intend to do, live off the place), not just a labor of love. A labor of love definitely has advantages for the owner over that of a business that is disliked, but a profitable and thriving enterprise that is also loved and enjoyed is far better than merely a labor of love. At some point love must display a profitable course of returns to be worthwhile. In business unrequited love is an expensive and dangerous affair.

4. Develop a good, stable, and reliable base of high quality and reasonable contacts and networks upon which you can rely to service and assist your operation when necessary.

5. Network heavily in all areas. Especially any area that will seem to lead towards more profitable ventures. As you seek to gain new supporters, remember supporters are not customers. Or advertisers. supporters are a thin and basically unreliable (in a business sense) baseline upon which to build business operations, or upon which to rely for future earnings. You want customers, new and repeat customers (however that is defined according to your particular business model). And you want to continuously build upon such a customer base. Just as you've set an initial goal for 1000 supporters I would suggest you also simultaneously set a goal for a certain number of (expanding) profitable customers and paying advertisers per month. I would also suggest that you consider developing a set number of profitable ventures. Personally I would probably set an initial goal of trying to enter into profitable venture partnerships about once every two to three months. Analyze your risks properly, of course, but don't fail to exploit acceptable and potentially profitable risks.

6. Develop a good Business Plan (operational), and a good Marketing Plan (part of your marketing plan should be an effective advertising strategy). (It also wouldn't hurt at all to have a good Tax and Investment Strategy.) Then work them consistently. Also improve both plans at any available opportunity so that you are in a state of constant and continual progress.

7. I would study various On-line Business Models (which will vary from other types of enterprises and business models) and start to adapt my operations to the best model(s) available. I would also experiment some with various ideas to see if they can be made to work profitably, or not (set a time frame for concept testing). I would also study those websites that actually do make money, as in actually profit, (both within the gaming industry, and perhaps even more importantly, those successful websites outside of the gaming industry) and see how they operate, and what they do to profit, and expand. And just as importantly notice what they do not do, or seek to avoid doing.

8. Eventually though you're gonna have to approach this as a professional business enterprise (if I'm reading what you're saying right), or it will be a future financial loss to you (been there), or at best an inconsistent and unreliable source of earnings (been there too). You don't want that with a wife and possible family, so plan and act as soon as possible in your best interest. And save yourself time and money. Better yet spend your time making money, not just saving it.

9. Talk to professionals, get their advice, and see if you can't get them to help you develop good, sound Business and Marketing and Advertising and Tax plans and strategies.

10. Have a really good idea of exactly what you want to achieve, both immediately, and in the more distant future with this website. Set specific goals and time-frames for the achievements of those goals. If you don't have a good, clear idea of what you want to achieve (your goals are always open to future modification anyway, so don't think of them as set in stone, but rather as waymarks - believe me, if you're paying attention you'll get better as you go along) then let me just say this, I've never seen a business succeed without a clear understanding of the real and necessary objectives of the enterprise. I've seen a lot fail by not knowing, none succeed by not knowing. In case i didn't make myself clear, you wanna succeed at this. Meaning you want it to make you a profit, if not a gigantic one then at least a comfortable and reliable one. So if i have one best piece of advice, it's this: avoid the mistakes I made in my early business ventures, and instead find out up-front what works best and do that. And find out what doesn't work well and avoid fooling around with that very much. Or for very long. 

So if you've already thought of these suggestions, then ignore them. If you haven't, then you might want to consider them for the near to mid-term future. If anyone else though has any suggestions, expertise, or experience that might be helpful, personally I'd say, help the man out all you can. Well, I'm tired now so I'm going to bed.

I think you've already made some important steps in the right direction. Keep at that kinda thing.

In any case good luck and Godspeed with your venture.
Be praying for your success.


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## wedgeski (Sep 30, 2009)

I have the remainder of a 12-month sub to play out, then I'll switch to the new system. I have to say though, that I think unless you find some way for the subscription to recur, you're going to *lose* a lot of supporters in the medium term. Not because they make a decision to opt out, but because it'll be a PITA to have to renew it every month, and many people won't do so until they find themselves actually needing a feature which they only get as a CS.

I'm certain you can set up recurring payments on PayPal, for example, so I've probably got the wrong end of the stick.

Otherwise, I think ENW can be turned into a successful business but your relationship with us lot will have to change. I know I won't be inclined to "donate" to a for-profit enterprise, but that won't stop me having a supporter account and enjoying the features that come with it.

In any case, I very much look forward to the adventure ahead, and good luck.


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## Morrus (Sep 30, 2009)

wedgeski said:


> I have the remainder of a 12-month sub to play out, then I'll switch to the new system. I have to say though, that I think unless you find some way for the subscription to recur, you're going to *lose* a lot of supporters in the medium term. Not because they make a decision to opt out, but because it'll be a PITA to have to renew it every month, and many people won't do so until they find themselves actually needing a feature which they only get as a CS.
> 
> I'm certain you can set up recurring payments on PayPal, for example, so I've probably got the wrong end of the stick.




Hmmm? The monthly one _does_ recur.


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## wedgeski (Sep 30, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Hmmm? The monthly one _does_ recur.



Then I _definitely_ got the wrong end of the stick.


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## Henrix (Sep 30, 2009)

BLACKDIRGE said:


> I don't know if that has been brought up, but there is a very simple thing that publishers can do to support the site. Whenever you post an RPGNOW link to a product in your post, make sure that link goes through the EN World PDF store. As was mentioned earlier in this thread, it doesn't affect your sales at all, but EN World gets a percentage of the sale.





Doesn't it detract from the publisher's profit at all? I thought it did!


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## underthumb (Sep 30, 2009)

I enjoy EN World, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to offer new (for-pay) services and products. However, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the request for donations in combination with these offers. That is, is EN World a business or a charity? Trying to be both creates dissonance. It shouldn't be necessary to appeal to people's good will if you have goods or services that are valuable. Doing so makes me feel uncomfortable as a potential customer. My suggestion is to focus on one or the other.


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## Henrix (Sep 30, 2009)

underthumb said:


> However, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the request for donations in combination with these offers.




I find that to be a very weird argument, really.

Why is it problematic to offer to pay to help support something as well as have a regular payment? One time donations or monthly recurring ones that gives you small perks.

Many non-profit organisations* have such things, and En World won't be making any profit - we hope that it'll be able to pay Morrus for his work.
I have no idea what form of organisation EN World is, or will be, but it won't be a new WotC - at least not for quite a while and quite a few changes.


I don't know how it works, but I suppose that if EN World became a NPO it would be tax exempt in the US, right? (I have really no idea how that works, in particular if it's a british NPO. It just struck me as Escape Artists (the people behind EscapePod, PseudoPod and PodCastle) are undergoing such a change.)

* And non-profit organisations aren't just 'charities'. It's basically a form of company that delivers no profit to it's owners. (But like all companies it may, hopefully, pay those who work for it.)

(My ignorance of US and British law may have muddled this, please excuse me in that case.)


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## Bold or Stupid (Sep 30, 2009)

Well since I seem to spend half my like lurking here, so as soon as my finances have settled (buying a house, aaaargh) I'll be getting a monthly subscription.


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## Nifft (Oct 1, 2009)

underthumb said:


> I enjoy EN World, and I think it's perfectly reasonable to offer new (for-pay) services and products. However, I'm somewhat uncomfortable with the request for donations in combination with these offers. That is, is EN World a business or a charity? Trying to be both creates dissonance. It shouldn't be necessary to appeal to people's good will if you have goods or services that are valuable. Doing so makes me feel uncomfortable as a potential customer. My suggestion is to focus on one or the other.



 Eh, think of it more as an invitation for those who may have a few extra bucks to throw around, and less as a tax write-off (which it isn't, because EN World is not a charity).

Cheers, -- N


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## dogoftheunderworld (Oct 1, 2009)

I've been meaning to re-up for a while, and the $3/month model works well for my budget needs.  Thanks again Russ for this site and all you do.


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## freyar (Oct 1, 2009)

Ooof.  Any chance you could add a Canadian dollar option to the payments?  (If that costs you, don't bother!)  Long story short, my bank just made USD purchases a lot less convenient for me, so switching to monthly makes it tougher to re-up (which I was just about to do).


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## Kirnon_Bhale (Oct 1, 2009)

Just couldn't stop myself - especially since I come here daily.


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## jeffh (Oct 2, 2009)

I too come here nearly every day, though according to my stats I only post, on average, about once every three days. So subscribing is the least I can do.

Why did I wait until just now, instead of doing it as soon as I made my previous positive remark about the subscription model? Just to time it so it hits on the first of the month.


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## Mathew_Freeman (Oct 2, 2009)

Hi Morrus,

Having seen that you've just abolished the year long subscriptions a few days after I bought one, I'd like to change to the monthly payment system. I've only just bought the 3 year subscription, so hopefully this can be sorted out easily.

I'm forwarding back the PayPal receipt to your gmail address and we'll go from there. I'd rather be one of the people giving you a steady income, it seems the best thing to do.

Taking this on as a business is a huge proposition and I wish you all the best for it.

Have you thought about attending UK Conventions (or getting volunteers to do so) with an ENWorld stand, giving info on what the site can do, acting as an easy place for UK D&D players to meet outside of the RPGA, etc? Getting Charles Ryan on board with that kind of thing could help UK D&D a lot. Not sure about the costs but advertising the site in that kind of way could help get more supporters.

thanks,

Matt.


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## jasonbostwick (Oct 3, 2009)

Would it be possible for Community Supporters to have the ability to turn off the newly introduced ads that appear horizontally in between posts in threads?

Fewer ads was the major draw for me to get a CSA, and these in-line ads are far more intrusive than the header and sidebar ads I can disable - frankly I'd take those back if it meant I could disable the in-line ads.


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## Longtooth Studios (Oct 4, 2009)

I still owe you a set of boards! : )

Enworld has our support! This site is THE central hub of the online gaming comunity, and as such deserves the respect and support of any of us who have benifited from its popularity. Our banners will be going up here for a long time to come.


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## Mathew_Freeman (Oct 4, 2009)

Something that occours to me - are you looking for any new moderators to help take up the load of running the forums, day-to-day?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 4, 2009)

Mathew_Freeman said:


> Something that occours to me - are you looking for any new moderators to help take up the load of running the forums, day-to-day?



What occured to me - have you looked into sharing the responsibility with others? Maybe some people would want to step in and be more than just admin, mod or community supporter, willing to help out financially and organizationally/administratively. 

I suppose if someone was strongly interested in this, he might have contacted you already, but who knows, maybe someone first needs to put out the idea.


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## Quartz (Oct 4, 2009)

Perhaps a silly question, but have you broken down your costs and analysed them for savings? For instance, I'm sure bandwidth has to be a major cost, but have you analysed what exactly is eating up the bandwidth? For instance, do you pay for the bandwidth used by your sponsors' ads?


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## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 5, 2009)

From experience, the Google Ads do not consume the site bandwidth allocation as they are served up from Google's own servers. (Though direct sponsor ads are.)

As for cost savings, I imagine the total monthly site bill is a minority part of the target total. Im sure that Morrus & co will have done whatever they can to minimise monthly site costs over the years.

From what's been described the plan is to generate enough revenue to make EN World a full time job. So the question becomes, more of "Do you want to support Morrus in making some kind of living out of EN World?". Whether the inference is then, "if not, adieu" only Morrus can say.

$3 a month is not a lot at all for everything that ENWorld offers and has offered over the past decade!


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## Obryn (Oct 5, 2009)

jasonbostwick said:


> Would it be possible for Community Supporters to have the ability to turn off the newly introduced ads that appear horizontally in between posts in threads?
> 
> Fewer ads was the major draw for me to get a CSA, and these in-line ads are far more intrusive than the header and sidebar ads I can disable - frankly I'd take those back if it meant I could disable the in-line ads.



He's working on it.

If you're able to, you can always use Firefox + Adblock Plus, though I'd recommend leaving ENWorld whitelisted in Adblock if you're not otherwise supporting the site.  It's the courteous thing to do.

-O


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## TheYeti1775 (Oct 5, 2009)

Obryn said:


> He's working on it.
> 
> If you're able to, you can always use Firefox + Adblock Plus, though I'd recommend leaving ENWorld whitelisted in Adblock if you're not otherwise supporting the site.  It's the courteous thing to do.
> 
> -O



The Adblock works great.  Enworld the Community I would consider leaving it whitelisted, but now that it's gone business I'll treat it just like other sites when I'm at home using Firefox.
---------------------------------

Congrats on trying to make it a business.
I wish you luck on it.

Hate being the fly in the ointment, but as far as getting my $$ out of my wallet and sending it in, I don't see it happening.
I didn't get into the MMO's because of the MONTHLY fees, just like I don't get into the DDI for the same reason(that and I didn't make the 4e switch).  Even the freebie downloads aren't going to draw me in for it.  There are too many sites out there that one can go to for free.  While yes this is one of the largest out there (and one of the better ones), it isn't a lock on the gamer niche by a longshot.
Most of the time I just lurk here anymore, the server lags have drove me other places to get my 'fix'.
The large ad block for the community support I just scroll past now.  Was annoying the first few times it couldn't be closed.  O well I deal with scrolling past, same with the inline ads when I'm at work.
The 138 current subscribers at $3/mo should be just enough for basic forum running for a large site to keep ya from being to far into the red.  But your definitely going to need that full 1000+ if your thinking of making this a full-time thing and that won't include keeping an on-staff programmer for the site.

Again good luck.


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## Morrus (Oct 5, 2009)

Just a quick note, guys.  We've sold 4 CSAs in the last 3 days (and the necessary target is 10 per day).  If you were planning on getting one but putting it off, I'd urge you to consider doing it as soon as you can!


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## Morrus (Oct 5, 2009)

TheYeti1775 said:


> There are too many sites out there that one can go to for free.




Are you implying that you _can't_ go to EN World for free? 

Anyway, I wish you luck and happiness wherever you end up.


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## RodneyThompson (Oct 6, 2009)

Signed up for mine, Russ. I'd been meaning to do the annual subscription, but always kept forgetting. Sorry to be so late to the party.


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## Gulla (Oct 6, 2009)

Maybe I just didn't find the answer, but what about those of us with subscriptions running far off into the future? Mine runs out October 2011...

If I go for a new 3 dollar/month deal now will that mean I get billed from November 2011? And how does that impact the 1000 before new year?

I understand that you cannot simply convert existing CS-accounts but how many of us "old friends" are around, and how do we figure into the "support the site with a stable income" plans? I assume others than me with long running CSAs would like to help keep the place running


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## Jack99 (Oct 7, 2009)

Gulla said:


> Maybe I just didn't find the answer, but what about those of us with subscriptions running far off into the future? Mine runs out October 2011...
> 
> If I go for a new 3 dollar/month deal now will that mean I get billed from November 2011? And how does that impact the 1000 before new year?
> 
> I understand that you cannot simply convert existing CS-accounts but how many of us "old friends" are around, and how do we figure into the "support the site with a stable income" plans? I assume others than me with long running CSAs would like to help keep the place running




You can always donate $3 a month until your CS runs out  - actually, it was a joke, but now that I think of it, I might do just that, since my CS runs at least a year or so, and I want to help Russ buy vodka be able to keep this site.


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## Gulla (Oct 7, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> You can always donate $3 a month until your CS runs out  - actually, it was a joke, but now that I think of it, I might do just that, since my CS runs at least a year or so, and I want to help Russ buy vodka be able to keep this site.




 I like that, but it's a bit much to remember (since paying with automated banking from Norway is donating much more to the banks than to Russ) so a monthly charge on my credit card is much better (since I don't have any extra charges on such charges.)

With the current state of the Norwegian Krone and the US Dollar paying in dollars will soon be free anyway 

Maybe Russ should consider getting paid in Euros since the GB Pound isn't looking too well either. (The advantage of the pound is of course that you can get a decent pint of lager or cider for that, which the Euro won't get you).


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## Morrus (Oct 7, 2009)

Gulla said:


> Maybe Russ should consider getting paid in Euros




Euros, GBP and USD are all there.


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## Nikosandros (Oct 7, 2009)

Gulla said:


> Maybe I just didn't find the answer, but what about those of us with subscriptions running far off into the future? Mine runs out October 2011...



An interesting question. My subscription expires at the end of October 2013...


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## Hadrian the Builder (Oct 9, 2009)

Since I've signed up as a CS, I can't see the fundraiser "thermometer", but I'm curious about how the drive is progressing.


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## JoeGKushner (Oct 12, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I'm afraid not.  The yearly payment has been phased out in favour of the new, smaller payments.   One thing which is vital for cash flow is the ability to project an accurate monthly revenue, which yearly subscriptions make pretty much impossible.




ah, that was what I was looking for.

subbed.


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## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 12, 2009)

I'm guessing the target thermometer at the top of the site is updated manually? As it's not gone up for a while and I understand from Twitter that Morrus' computer is currently languishing in a PC World repair garage!


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## Morrus (Oct 12, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> I'm guessing the target thermometer at the top of the site is updated manually? As it's not gone up for a while and I understand from Twitter that Morrus' computer is currently languishing in a PC World repair garage!




Correct!

I got the computer back today and am slowly catching up with things.


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## Theroc (Oct 13, 2009)

How does one add those "Support Enworld" signature things again?  I figure since I won't be able to pay for CSA that I can carry one of those to encourage people to do it.  Though, that may make me look like a hypocrit.


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## Peraion Graufalke (Oct 13, 2009)

Well, I tried to subscribe via PayPal, unfortunately they require me to register a credit card?! WT? My DDI sub works just fine without one, and I'm not going to get a CC, ever. That's a deal-breaker for me.

Also, the conversion rate seems pretty off. 3$ = 2.50€?? More like 2€. Is there some 25% EU tax scheme I'm not aware of? Wouldn't surprise me at all.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 13, 2009)

Peraion Graufalke said:


> Well, I tried to subscribe via PayPal, unfortunately they require me to register a credit card?! WT? My DDI sub works just fine without one, and I'm not going to get a CC, ever. That's a deal-breaker for me.




PayPal doesn't require you to register a credit card to my knowledge.  I've never attached my credit card to my PayPal account.



> Also, the conversion rate seems pretty off. 3$ = 2.50€?? More like 2€. Is there some 25% EU tax scheme I'm not aware of? Wouldn't surprise me at all.




You could just select the dollar option, and that'll give you today's exchange rate.


----------



## Peraion Graufalke (Oct 13, 2009)

Morrus said:


> PayPal doesn't require you to register a credit card to my knowledge.  I've never attached my credit card to my PayPal account.



I thought so, too. Until Paypal told me I had to in this case. That's a pretty dumb move on their part, for no good reason whatsoever.



> You could just select the dollar option, and that'll give you today's exchange rate.



Thanks, I hadn't thought of that. Doesn't solve my main problem, though.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 13, 2009)

Peraion Graufalke said:


> I thought so, too. Until Paypal told me I had to in this case. That's a pretty dumb move on their part, for no good reason whatsoever.




Very weird.  I don't have my CC linked to my PayPal account, and it works just fine like that.


----------



## Jhaelen (Oct 14, 2009)

Peraion Graufalke said:


> Well, I tried to subscribe via PayPal, unfortunately they require me to register a credit card?! WT? My DDI sub works just fine without one, and I'm not going to get a CC, ever. That's a deal-breaker for me.



Normally, you're getting a choice between credit card and a regular bank account - unless your bank isn't participating.

But since it worked for your DDI sub, that cannot be the problem.


----------



## Jupp (Oct 14, 2009)

AFAIK you only are required to link a CC if you want to have a "Verified PayPal Account". Sometimes this is a requirement for some online transactions via Paypal and I know that some Ebay sellers request it if the item in question has a high value (i.e. D&D woodies)


----------



## Peraion Graufalke (Oct 14, 2009)

- Basically PayPal tells me I need a CC because it's an "immediate payment".
- There's enough money on my PayPal account to buy a one-month ENWorld sub (about 4$).
- PayPal's help doesn't help. (There's no mention of CC's being required for immediate payments.)

What I'm going to try next is to transfer money from my bank to PayPal. I wanted to buy some One Bad Egg pdfs anyway, and buying through ENWorld's pdf store will help you guys, too. 
I suspect it hasn't worked so far because it's a recurring sub and there's only enough money for 1 month on my account. Alternatively, there might be some hidden fees or taxes PayPal don't tell me about so I'd have a negative balance after the transaction.

@Jupp: My PayPal account has been verified years ago (via my bank account), so this shouldn't be an issue.

Anyway, thanks for your help, guys.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 14, 2009)

Peraion Graufalke said:


> Alternatively, there might be some hidden fees or taxes PayPal don't tell me about so I'd have a negative balance after the transaction.




Nah - the fees come out of my end of it.  For you it's the $3 only.


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 15, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Nah - the fees come out of my end of it.  For you it's the $3 only.




I can confirm that it will only take $3 out.  No hidden fees.


----------



## tuxgeo (Oct 15, 2009)

Jupp said:


> AFAIK you only are required to link a CC if you want to have a "Verified PayPal Account". Sometimes this is a requirement for some online transactions via Paypal and I know that some Ebay sellers request it if the item in question has a high value (i.e. D&D woodies)



If I recall correctly, linking to your checking account makes your PayPal account "Verified," and linking to a credit card makes your PayPal account have a "Confirmed" address, which some eBay sellers require.


----------



## freyar (Oct 16, 2009)

Urk, someone help fast!  I'm trying to pay by credit card through PayPal, but PayPal is telling me I have to sign up for a PayPal account (and there's no cancel button).  Is there a way I don't need to get a PayPal account on a permanent basis?  If not, anyone know how I can cancel out until I can convince my wife that a PayPal account is ok?

Edit: I also don't get the foreign currency fees.  If I'm paying a USD bill in USD, I have to pay a foreign currency fee just because I'm in Canada?


----------



## Mark (Oct 16, 2009)

Just close the window and clear your cookies.  If you want to email me, we could work something out on another way to handle things.


----------



## darjr (Oct 16, 2009)




----------



## Peraion Graufalke (Oct 24, 2009)

PayPal sucks. 

Still got the same problem.

I sent you a donation. At least *that* worked...


----------



## Henrix (Oct 26, 2009)

I just got the following notice.
Is there no way to get the subscription to run without confirming and going through the payment process every month?




> Your access to the paid subscription "Community Supporter Account" at EN World is about to expire.
> To extend this you must visit EN World and renew your subscription.
> 
> If you do not renew your subscription, it will end shortly.  In that case, thank you for your previous subscription!


----------



## Lord Xtheth (Oct 26, 2009)

Henrix said:


> I just got the following notice.
> Is there no way to get the subscription to run without confirming and going through the payment process every month?



 Yes, I too would like an auto-renew option.

Please let me pay you for your site indefinately without having to even think about it.


----------



## AJCarrington (Oct 26, 2009)

Donated/joined over the weekend.  Does the "Community Supporter" logo come up when I choose/link an avatar?

AJC


----------



## Morrus (Oct 26, 2009)

Henrix said:


> I just got the following notice.
> Is there no way to get the subscription to run without confirming and going through the payment process every month?






Lord Xtheth said:


> Yes, I too would like an auto-renew option.
> 
> Please let me pay you for your site indefinately without having to even think about it.




On the first 10 or so folks to sign up, I screwed up slightly and didn't click on the "auto-renew" checkbox.  I'm sorry about that - but if you redo it once this one expires, it will work correctly and auto-renew each month.

This applies to about 10 people (the first 10 or so to buy an account).


----------



## Morrus (Oct 26, 2009)

AJCarrington said:


> Donated/joined over the weekend. Does the "Community Supporter" logo come up when I choose/link an avatar?
> 
> AJC




Yep!


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 26, 2009)

The "target thermometer" seems to have disappeared?


----------



## AJCarrington (Oct 26, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Yep!




Thanks!!

AJC


----------



## Theroc (Oct 26, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> The "target thermometer" seems to have disappeared?




Only those who are not already community supporters see the thermometer.


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 26, 2009)

I don't think that is the case.  Can anyone else see it?


----------



## darjr (Oct 26, 2009)

I logged out and didn't see it.

The image I linked to above was the image Morrus was updating.


----------



## Lord Xtheth (Oct 26, 2009)

Morrus said:


> On the first 10 or so folks to sign up, I screwed up slightly and didn't click on the "auto-renew" checkbox. I'm sorry about that - but if you redo it once this one expires, it will work correctly and auto-renew each month.
> 
> This applies to about 10 people (the first 10 or so to buy an account).



 When I got my notification, I re-subscribed, and didn't get the option to auto-renew. Do I have to wait for my account to expire before this appears?


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 26, 2009)

The one above you link to is at 215 supporters, I think I saw it up to 290 the last time it was there. Oh well, probably just a coding hiccup!


----------



## Theroc (Oct 26, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> I don't think that is the case.  Can anyone else see it?




I just know when I wasn't a CS, I could see it, and now that I am, I cannot.  Hence my conclusion that only those who were not Community Supporters could see it.  If that's wrong, apologies for any confusion my faulty conclusion caused.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 26, 2009)

Lord Xtheth said:


> When I got my notification, I re-subscribed, and didn't get the option to auto-renew. Do I have to wait for my account to expire before this appears?




No, that's something I do.  The sub was initially set up without autorenew on, and I realised after the first 10 or so purchasers and changed it.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 26, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> The one above you link to is at 215 supporters, I think I saw it up to 290 the last time it was there. Oh well, probably just a coding hiccup!




It's at 231 right now.


----------



## Henrix (Oct 26, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I'm sorry about that - but if you redo it once this one expires, it will work correctly and auto-renew each month.




Excellent!


----------



## hewligan (Oct 27, 2009)

Morrus said:


> It's at 231 right now.




That is a good number, but I know it is below your target of around 10 people per day to hit the 1000 by Christmas that you are targeting. Since the last update was posted, with 215, you have added 16 people in 6 days ... is there any realistic chance of hitting your target (I assume that subscriptions have slowed down to a steady level now as people who come off longer CS commitments sign up on a rolling basis)? If not .... what is going to happen?

Good luck! My CS runs out at the end of October, so I cannot subscribe until then, so that is at least 1 more.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 27, 2009)

hewligan said:


> That is a good number, but I know it is below your target of around 10 people per day to hit the 1000 by Christmas that you are targeting. Since the last update was posted, with 215, you have added 16 people in 6 days ... is there any realistic chance of hitting your target (I assume that subscriptions have slowed down to a steady level now as people who come off longer CS commitments sign up on a rolling basis)? If not .... what is going to happen?
> 
> Good luck! My CS runs out at the end of October, so I cannot subscribe until then, so that is at least 1 more.




237 now.  So we'll close out the month at about 250.  At that rate, 1000 will be hit by the end of January, assuming the rate keeps up (although I assume it'll continue to slow).  

There are about 50 people like yourself also due to come off old year subs before Christmas.  Hopefully they will all re-subscribe on the monthly plan.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 27, 2009)

And here I thought it was clever and good for EN World to pick the longest subscription option, many months ago...


----------



## Morrus (Oct 27, 2009)

241.


----------



## darjr (Oct 27, 2009)

What if I went and signed up for the monthly account now?


----------



## Morrus (Oct 27, 2009)

darjr said:


> What if I went and signed up for the monthly account now?




What do you mean?


----------



## darjr (Oct 27, 2009)

Well, look at my active subscriptions.


----------



## renau1g (Oct 27, 2009)

Just signed up. Worth the price of a cup of coffee a month. Thanks Morrus.

Now: How do I get rid of those ads?


----------



## Morrus (Oct 27, 2009)

darjr said:


> Well, look at my active subscriptions.




You mean because you still have one of the older (yearly) ones?

They would both work at the same time.  So you'd effectively have two separate different subscriptions, but since they both do exactly the same thing you wouldn't perceive a difference.  When one expired, the other would continue until expiry (or, in the case of the monthly, cancellation).


----------



## Morrus (Oct 27, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Just signed up. Worth the price of a cup of coffee a month. Thanks Morrus.
> 
> Now: How do I get rid of those ads?




If you go to your account page (click "My Account" at the left hand end of the navbar), then go to "Edit Options", there are some options near the bottom, including: 

Disable Column Ad
Disable Header Ad
Disable Sidebar


----------



## renau1g (Oct 28, 2009)

Thanks!


----------



## garyh (Oct 28, 2009)

I re-upped my CS account for a year in August.  Am I being counted towards the 1,000 goal?  If not, is it possible to refund me the 5/6th-ish amount left from my annual sub, and I'll sign on as a monthly subscriber?

Not sure how many others are in the same situation I am, but there are likely a few of us who've already tossed money at the site, and would be happy to switch to your newly-preferred monthly method if that helps you with the math.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 28, 2009)

garyh said:


> I re-upped my CS account for a year in August. Am I being counted towards the 1,000 goal?




No, it's not.  Yours will expire next August, at whch point you'll be able to sign up for the monthly sub.



> If not, is it possible to refund me the 5/6th-ish amount left from my annual sub, and I'll sign on as a monthly subscriber?




Not sure how many others are in the same situation I am, but there are likely a few of us who've already tossed money at the site, and would be happy to switch to your newly-preferred monthly method if that helps you with the math.[/quote]

Heh - I don't have the funds to do that, unfortunately!  I spend the subsription payments on server hosting and the like!


----------



## garyh (Oct 28, 2009)

That's fine, I'll just re-up monthly in August.  Just thought I'd ask.


----------



## Raven Crowking (Oct 28, 2009)

Morrus, can you accept payment apart from PayPal?


----------



## Morrus (Oct 28, 2009)

Raven Crowking said:


> Morrus, can you accept payment apart from PayPal?




I can't; sorry.  Maybe when (if) we grow a bit larger we might be able to afford our own credit card transaction service and merchant bank account and stuff, but for now we're reliant on PayPal.


----------



## Storminator (Oct 29, 2009)

My log in says my rep power is one, but the news post says it should be 3. What's  the truth? I'm being gypped out of rep power! I demand satisfaction! 

PS


----------



## Raven Crowking (Oct 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I can't; sorry.  Maybe when (if) we grow a bit larger we might be able to afford our own credit card transaction service and merchant bank account and stuff, but for now we're reliant on PayPal.




If you send me a PM with where you want me to send it & who to make it out to, I'll send you a personal cheque to cover 1 year.  When it clears, you can change my status.


RC


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## Morrus (Oct 29, 2009)

Raven Crowking said:


> If you send me a PM with where you want me to send it & who to make it out to, I'll send you a personal cheque to cover 1 year. When it clears, you can change my status.




I've very deliberately deactivated the one-year accounts!

Plus it would presumably be a foreign (USD?  CAN?) cheque which would cost almost as much as the value of the cheque to deposit. 

What's the PayPal objection, may I ask?


----------



## Raven Crowking (Oct 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> What's the PayPal objection, may I ask?




Mostly laziness (he admits bashfully).  It's been so long since I've used PayPal that I'd have to redo all my banking information.

No worries, though.  PayPal it is.  Expect me to re-up by the end of next week.


RC


----------



## Raven Crowking (Oct 29, 2009)

Hrm.  Apparently, PayPal does not allow this transaction to go through based on my balance, but requires a credit card.....?


----------



## Morrus (Oct 29, 2009)

Has anyone had any experience with other payment facilitators, such as NOCHEX, WorldPay, Authroize.net, 2Checkout, Moneybookers or CCBill?


----------



## Ghostwind (Oct 29, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Has anyone had any experience with other payment facilitators, such as NOCHEX, WorldPay, Authroize.net, 2Checkout, Moneybookers or CCBill?




CCBill seems to be the preferred payment facilitators for porn sites so it must be secure.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 30, 2009)

Just guaging the opinion on the exclusive content.

In the last month, 12 PDFs have appeared in the community supporter subscription section.  Do people feel they're getting good value?


----------



## darjr (Oct 30, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Just guaging the opinion on the exclusive content.
> 
> In the last month, 12 PDFs have appeared in the community supporter subscription section.  Do people feel they're getting good value?




Yes. The Critter Cache is way cool, the adventures are worth it alone, even more so because they cover two editions, the quick kill book is awesome, the EN World magazine is nice as well as a glimpse at ENWorld history (I never new about it before and would love to see newer issues), and some of the newer stuff I haven't even had a chance to look at.


----------



## Mistwell (Oct 30, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Has anyone had any experience with other payment facilitators, such as NOCHEX, WorldPay, Authroize.net, 2Checkout, Moneybookers or CCBill?




I use Authorize.net at work.  It's OK.  Their credit card portion is solid, but the echeck part has some annoyances (it functions, but if a check bounces you have to hunt to figure it out, unless you change some email settings).


----------



## Theroc (Oct 31, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Just guaging the opinion on the exclusive content.
> 
> In the last month, 12 PDFs have appeared in the community supporter subscription section.  Do people feel they're getting good value?




I would say the content is definitely worth a subscription, Morrus.


----------



## hewligan (Oct 31, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Just guaging the opinion on the exclusive content.
> 
> In the last month, 12 PDFs have appeared in the community supporter subscription section.  Do people feel they're getting good value?




Absolutely - fantastic value. It would guess that it makes subscription compelling even to non-supporters of the site (if you know what I mean - those people who would not otherwise have subscribed).

I haven't downloaded WoTBS yet, but some of the other freebies were cool.


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 31, 2009)

it raises an interesting philsophical point.

Are Community Subscribers therefore subscribing to support the community, or only to gain access to the additional content? I suspect as usual, a mix.


----------



## Merkuri (Oct 31, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> Are Community Subscribers therefore subscribing to support the community, or only to gain access to the additional content? I suspect as usual, a mix.




Does it matter?


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Oct 31, 2009)

Yes and no.  Utimately the money is garnered to support the site. Where it may matter is that if supporters are signing on just for the additional materials, that puts the site on a continual track of supplying new materials to community supporters. There is nothing wrong with that I'm just musing on the consequences of the different approaches.


----------



## Morrus (Oct 31, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> Where it may matter is that if supporters are signing on just for the additional materials, that puts the site on a continual track of supplying new materials to community supporters.




That's the plan!  I have craploads of stuff to give subscribers.  Plus I'm working on deals with some publishers and manufacturers for even more cool stuff!

Limited edition EN World dice set raffle, anyone?


----------



## Storminator (Oct 31, 2009)

The material is pretty awesome. I'm rather impressed with the quantity of stuff. 

PS


----------



## darjr (Nov 1, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Limited edition EN World dice set raffle, anyone?




!?!


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Nov 1, 2009)

Morrus said:


> That's the plan!  I have craploads of stuff to give subscribers.  Plus I'm working on deals with some publishers and manufacturers for even more cool stuff!
> 
> Limited edition EN World dice set raffle, anyone?




That is a long and hard road. I laud your efforts and wish you all the best.


----------



## Morrus (Nov 1, 2009)

Just a note - we closed out the first month with 275 subscribers.


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Nov 2, 2009)

That's excellent! Is there a chance you might be able to stretch the target deadline to January if necessary?

Also you may find more supporters come in in the second month as many people re-adjust their finances on a monthly basis.


----------



## Morrus (Nov 2, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> That's excellent! Is there a chance you might be able to stretch the target deadline to January if necessary?
> 
> Also you may find more supporters come in in the second month as many people re-adjust their finances on a monthly basis.




Well, we've had 20 people cancel their subscriptions, so it's not all gravy.  But we'll see what happens!


----------



## Raven Crowking (Nov 2, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Well, we've had 20 people cancel their subscriptions, so it's not all gravy.  But we'll see what happens!




Set up a way to pay w/o credit card, and I'm all yours, baby!  




























(EDIT:  Now Morrus won't be able to sleep for a month!)


----------



## crazy_cat (Nov 2, 2009)

PIM68 said:


> Also you may find more supporters come in in the second month as many people re-adjust their finances on a monthly basis.



I think that is quite unlikely - I struggle to believe there are people whose finances are so tight that they need a months notice to find $3 to support a website. 

If $3 is that hard to find then I don't see supporting ENWorld as being a priority for people.


----------



## PaulofCthulhu (Nov 2, 2009)

no post


----------



## pneumatik (Nov 4, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Just guaging the opinion on the exclusive content.
> 
> In the last month, 12 PDFs have appeared in the community supporter subscription section.  Do people feel they're getting good value?




On the one hand, I have everything I need for my game right now. I'm running War of the Burning Sky (online here in fact) and already have the pdf of the first adventure and the super-collected-version. So I don't get direct use out of the free stuff.

OTOH, I bought the super-collection-pdf during the GenCon sale so it cost me something like $17. It's not like the subscription is me paying again to get something I already have because I don't really feel like I paid much for what I currently have.

On the gripping hand, getting the 4E version of WotBS is kinda cool. It's nice to have the option of running it in realspace, assuming either I want to run 4E or my players only want to play 4E.


----------



## Mathew_Freeman (Nov 4, 2009)

Morrus said:


> That's the plan!  I have craploads of stuff to give subscribers.  Plus I'm working on deals with some publishers and manufacturers for even more cool stuff!
> 
> Limited edition EN World dice set raffle, anyone?




Dice raffle? Sure, why not? You can never have too many dice!


----------



## JoeGKushner (Nov 5, 2009)

Especially if it's a dice raffle by the old Q-Workshop or old Man Lou!


----------



## darjr (Nov 17, 2009)

OK. Morrus, are you trying to make me lose sleep? How am I supposed to keep up?


----------



## D.M.T. (Nov 19, 2009)

Just curious, what's the current subscription count?


----------



## Morrus (Nov 19, 2009)

D.M.T. said:


> Just curious, what's the current subscription count?




It's currently going down, not up. A lot of cancellations this week (I don't know why). Also quite a few people who sign up and then cancel within 2-3 minutes.

I think people are seeing it as a "grab all you can for $3".

I'm considering a "it's $3 the first time, but if you cancel you lose that rate and its more the second time" type arrangement to discourage people from that. Basically, it needs to be pitched at a level where someone makes money for EN World, not _costs_ me money by grabbing more than $3 worth of stuff then cancelling. Might be some technical difficulties implementing it, though, since somebody could just create a new account.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Nov 19, 2009)

Morrus said:


> I think people are seeing it as a "grab all you can for $3".




Wow. That's seriously lame of people.


----------



## Raven Crowking (Nov 19, 2009)

Mouseferatu said:


> Wow. That's seriously lame of people.




Indeed.

I would still like to contribute (and not because of exclusive content), but don't use a credit card.  I can't get PayPal to process without one.

RC


----------



## Morrus (Nov 19, 2009)

Mouseferatu said:


> Wow. That's seriously lame of people.




Well, it wasn't unexpected.  If the system _enables_ you to do something, then a certain percentage_ will_ do it.  

There's not a lot of point in my whining about it; my job is to figure out the price structure which results in the highest profit for EN World.  Someone signing up, downloading and then cancelling is a net loss (it costs me money to provide the downloads); so I need to work out how to prevent that.

Some people have suggested a limit to the number of downloads one can make per month so that they'll have to continue subscribing if they plan to download *everything*.   That seems a bit draconian to me (and is hard to implement).

The "you're welcome to cancel, but you'll lose the $3 price" is a softer approach and might help with people who are planning to sign up and cancel periodically to get as much as they can for as little as possible (and who can blame them?), but it would have to be pretty high to actually be a discouragement to someone who wants to pay $3 every six months or whatever.

How does WotC handle it?  Or are they able to simply factor in that people will do that?


----------



## Mouseferatu (Nov 19, 2009)

Morrus said:


> How does WotC handle it?  Or are they able to simply factor in that people will do that?




Well, I certainly have no inside knowledge of that end of the business, but my _guess_ would be it's a combination of

A) Them being big enough to factor in the "come-and-go" part of the market, and

B) Them providing certain services (like the Compendium) that can't reasonably be used without ongoing access.


----------



## RangerWickett (Nov 19, 2009)

I dunno, maybe set up tiered subscriptions like WotC.

1 month - $10.

3 months - $18 at $6 a month.

1 year - $36 at $3 a month.

Once you sign up for a subscription, you agree to the full length of time, though you're only charged on a monthly basis. Is that doable?


----------



## dogoftheunderworld (Nov 19, 2009)

Morrus said:


> ... Someone signing up, downloading and then cancelling is a net loss (it costs me money to provide the downloads); so I need to work out how to prevent that.
> 
> Some people have suggested a limit to the number of downloads one can make per month so that they'll have to continue subscribing if they plan to download *everything*.   That seems a bit draconian to me (and is hard to implement).
> 
> ...




Personally, I would cycle the free subscriber downloads so that only the most current 3-4 downloads (or 1-2 months worth)are available at any given time.  I know there is a lot of goodwill involved in keeping indefinite archives, but those who want to support the site will do so (and get the content each month).  Those who only want the current freebie (or as much as they can get), well... they will still get more than $3 worth of excellent materials, but not break the bank.  You have to keep up payments to enjoy continued benefits... that's why it is called a "subscription."  

I believe WotC gives complete access during the time you are paying, but they undoubtedly have the volume to better manage "one-month grabs". 

Also, offering on-going premium content should keep people coming back.  I believe that if you continue to offer your content, some of those lost subs will come back to get more. (This would apply to WotC's model as well.)


----------



## keterys (Nov 19, 2009)

Make it so every month you get X picks of free stuff, where X still makes you money.


----------



## jaerdaph (Nov 19, 2009)

Maybe some of the free PDF products could be available for a limited time only.


----------



## Morrus (Nov 19, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> I dunno, maybe set up tiered subscriptions like WotC.
> 
> 1 month - $10.
> 
> ...




I've no way to enforce it, unfortunately.


----------



## Morrus (Nov 19, 2009)

Just a note - we've only been doing this for a few weeks, so it's not really possible to get definite patterns out of the figures yet.  It may turn out that in the long-term, the issue simply doesn't matter.

I think we'll be able to guage things better after 6 months or so.


----------



## D.M.T. (Nov 20, 2009)

First thing that popped into my head by way of a solution...

Make the first month more expensive, say $10-$15 and then $3.00 per month after. If you cancel, you have to start with the $10-$15 start up month again.

Another idea... I don't know exactly how you could implement it...

You get access to one download item from those available each month. On your second month, you can now access two items, third month gets you access to three items, etc...

You could also make it clear to people that if they subscribe, they are expected to maintain it for a certain number of months (6 months, 12 months?) If they cannot commit to that, they can make a flat donation or not subscribe. If someone then cancels, post the user name, and email address in a "Cancelation" thread. ???


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## CapnZapp (Nov 20, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Well, it wasn't unexpected.  If the system _enables_ you to do something, then a certain percentage_ will_ do it.



Thank you for acknowledging this. 

There really is only one solution - make all possible ways to subscribe into profitable encouraged positive way to subscribe.

if you can do it, people will do it, and you should expect them to do it. If you don't want them to do it - then don't make it easy (or legit) to do it. If you don't turn a profit from someone paying $3 to download everything that's on offer then _don't offer that possibility_.

Seems WotC's structure works well and is reasonable too: pay $10 for one month's access, pay $15 for three months access, and pay $18 for six months access. 

All upfront. 

Please don't seek solutions that force people to continue paying, that can be abused and turn out really nasty. That kind of forced subscriptions really is a kind of business I associate with murky scammers only TBH. Auto-renewals really isn't very friendly either. It's best to offer a no-strings-attached deal, where you pay once, get something, and then nothing more unless the customer approaches you again.

If anything, you should consider giving a rebate to a former customer who considers resubscribing! _Never_ apply a penalty. Penalties are always bad PR.

Best Regards,
CapnZapp


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## Morrus (Nov 20, 2009)

CapnZapp said:


> Thank you for acknowledging this.




You're most welcome?


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## Morrus (Nov 20, 2009)

And on the note of new content - I've just begun adding the back-catalogue of Emerald Press' COMBAT ADVANTAGE supplement.

COMBAT ADVANTAGE #1: POWER KNOWLEDGE is now in the downloads area.  I aim to get all 13 back-issues up by Christmas.  The next _new_ issue of COMBAT ADVANTAGE (#15) is in January.


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## Theroc (Nov 21, 2009)

Morrus said:


> Well, it wasn't unexpected.  If the system _enables_ you to do something, then a certain percentage_ will_ do it.
> 
> There's not a lot of point in my whining about it; my job is to figure out the price structure which results in the highest profit for EN World.  Someone signing up, downloading and then cancelling is a net loss (it costs me money to provide the downloads); so I need to work out how to prevent that.
> 
> ...





Morrus, does each download cost you money, or is it simply the service of providing downloads at all?


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## Morrus (Nov 21, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Morrus, does each download cost you money, or is it simply the service of providing downloads at all?




Yes; as one example the WotBS products cost over $2000 each to produce. So unless people who sign up stay signed up for a reasonable period of time, the costs don't get covered. And remember, that's just the WotBS stuff.

Fortunately, we've had some donated product which doesn't have a production cost for EN World but which generates subscriptions. That certainly helps!

Of course the problem goes away if you're the size of WotC, with 8000+ subscribers.  As folks have pointed out, that means they can easily absorb the one-shot subs because they have the scale.  We're at about 500 subscribers, so we have quite some way to go before that sort of thing can be absorbed (and, of course, as I mentioned, the number went _down_ this week, not up).

If I can increase the subscriber level to a couple of thousand (and that's a tall order!) then it ceases to be a worry at all.


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## Theroc (Nov 21, 2009)

Not sure I conveyed my question properly.  I'll be more clear.

While I had the bonus CS subscription month you gave me, I downloaded things.

Did that act actually cost you money?  Or did it cost a flat rate to make the items available in the first place, and my downloading had no effect on your revenue stream at all?

Just wondering, as if it did cost you money for each download I made, I would not have downloaded as many things during that period... as I kinda feel like a jerk now.


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## tuxgeo (Nov 21, 2009)

Morrus said:


> D.M.T. said:
> 
> 
> > Just curious, what's the current subscription count?
> ...



Is there any chance that this is a temporary Burst effect -- in which most of the current userbase who would do such a thing are doing it all at once, and having done so will stop thereafter? 
If 0.01% of 80,000 users do it, that's still a lot of people; but if they don't do it again, and only 0.01% of the new users each month do the same thing, then the number of download-and-quit users should drop dramatically after the initial burst of such activity.


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## Morrus (Nov 22, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Just wondering, as if it did cost you money for each download I made, I would not have downloaded as many things during that period... as I kinda feel like a jerk now.




No, no.  The cost of the dowload process itself is negligible. 



tuxgeo said:


> Is there any chance that this is a temporary Burst effect -- in which most of the current userbase who would do such a thing are doing it all at once, and having done so will stop thereafter?
> If 0.01% of 80,000 users do it, that's still a lot of people; but if they don't do it again, and only 0.01% of the new users each month do the same thing, then the number of download-and-quit users should drop dramatically after the initial burst of such activity.




It's a theory!  Only time will tell!


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## BryonD (Nov 22, 2009)

tuxgeo said:


> If 0.01% of 80,000 users do it, that's still a lot of people;



8 is a lot?


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## tuxgeo (Nov 22, 2009)

BryonD said:


> 8 is a lot?



No, it's not. 
I threw that incorrect ratio ("0.01%") out there because I have no access to Morrus' actual data of how many people are doing that, i.e. subscribe-download-cancel. 
If you would like to try it, please entertain the same idea using "1%" instead of "0.01%" and see if you find the proposition more acceptable. It will still be inaccurate because we do not know the actual numbers involved (nor should we); but that ratio would make the number of people doing that _*800*_ instead, which _is_ a lot of people; but I'm sure that this is fully as wrong a total as _*8*_ must be. (Morrus was talking about a target of 1,000 subscribers, so if 800 of them are canceling, matters are vastly more dire than he so far has let on.)


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