# The 1701 reaches 1000 missions!



## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

Now you may dispense with the adulation and the pleasantries which entail of my reaching 1000 posts.


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

ummm..ya?


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 22, 2005)

*randomly dispenses the adulations and pleasantries throughout the room while singing about fire* 

Yay!


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

Acoma, that a picture of you in the Avatar?


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 22, 2005)

Yessum, the freaky looking ambiguous thingie is me.


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> Yessum, the freaky looking ambiguous thingie is me.




better then the picture of me floating around these days.  But I'm suprised there isn't like a blazing fire in the background


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

That's what you get when you posed in that issue of PlayOoze.


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> That's what you get when you posed in that issue of PlayOoze.




you saw the spread??  so, what did you think...?


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> you saw the spread??  so, what did you think...?




Now that I'm blinded.... ::grabs sunglasses::


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

now all you need is the head bob


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 22, 2005)

... Congrats?


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## MonsterMash (Apr 22, 2005)

Congratulations!


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

Congratulations, 1701. Vulcan Welcomes You. You have permission to take up a polar geosync orbit - coordinates to follow. 

(Wow - they ALL do it now, but your 1000 post thread went from 0 to Hivemind at Warp velocity!  )


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## Hand of Evil (Apr 22, 2005)

Congratulations


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

Thank you, all.

Really, Torm? I never noticed.


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

congrats and salutations!


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> you saw the spread??  so, what did you think...?



Notice my empty eye sockets and the blood dribbling from them.


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## MonsterMash (Apr 22, 2005)

Maybe you should have a celebration at 1701 posts as well!


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## fett527 (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> better then the picture of me floating around these days.  But I'm suprised there isn't like a blazing fire in the background




Heh.


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## fett527 (Apr 22, 2005)

Oh yeah.  Congrats mojo1701.


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

MonsterMash said:
			
		

> Maybe you should have a celebration at 1701 posts as well!




Huh. Never would've thought of that.

Do you think the admins would allow me to upgrade to 1701a when I hit 5 years?


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Do you think the admins would allow me to upgrade to 1701a when I hit 5 years?



No! No bloody 'a', 'b', 'c', or 'd'!


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

what about e?  the new one is e


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> what about e?  the new one is e




He was quoting Scotty aboard the Enterprise-D in TNG episode, "Relics," when Scotty asked the computer to recreate the bridge of the Enterprise. And the computer said, "There have been five ships currently named Enterprise," to which he replies, "N. C. C. 1. 7. 0. 1. No bloody 'a,' 'b,' 'c,' OR 'd'."


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> No! No bloody 'a', 'b', 'c', or 'd'!




I'm already registered on some sites (recently) as mojo1701a, as well as my e-mail is mojo1701a@hotmail.com. I upgraded it from the old 1701, since it was full of spam.


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

I got it and at the time there was no enterpise E, but there is now


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I got it and at the time there was no enterpise E, but there is now



Yep, courtesy of Nemesis, I believe.


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## Nightcloak (Apr 22, 2005)

congrats my man.

cigars and martinis for everyone


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## Nightcloak (Apr 22, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Yep, courtesy of Nemesis, I believe.




I think it was after the D ship crashed in Generations


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Yep, courtesy of Nemesis, I believe.





			
				Nightcloak said:
			
		

> I think it was after the D ship crashed in Generations




First showed up in First Contact. According to LaForge, it was in service for over a year.


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 22, 2005)

MonsterMash said:
			
		

> Maybe you should have a celebration at 1701 posts as well!



Should I have celebrated my 1st?


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

And then, of course, there was the Modified Triumphant Class NCC-170100 U.S.S. Enterprise Carrier/Heavy Cruiser brought into service under Captain Sara Chandler in the year 2534.....







(I am SUCH a geek.  )


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> (I am SUCH a geek.  )



Whats this refrencing from?


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Whats this refrencing from?



Some fan fiction I wrote a while back. I drew the ship, too. 

That's WHY I say I'm such a geek.


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Some fan fiction I wrote a while back. I drew the ship, too.
> 
> That's WHY I say I'm such a geek.



I love it! I wouldn't mind reading that FanFic!


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I love it! I wouldn't mind reading that FanFic!



Well, I said fanfic, but it really never got beyond putting together a story bible - I've got character bios, racial descriptions for new races, a technical paper for the ship's new Sidewarp propulsion system, and a bunch of drawings and schematics. And a partially completed Chapter 1. And a bunch of ideas still in my head.


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

wow, you almost belong on Trekkies.....


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Well when you get all together you can drop me an email with it. Just DL my VCard when its done!


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> wow, you almost belong on Trekkies.....



Nonsense! Those people are nuts!

I would never show up to jury duty in a Starfleet duty uniform with a toy phaser. Everyone knows you don't carry weapons into a courtroom, and anything as formal as jury duty warrants the DRESS uniform.


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Nonsense! Those people are nuts!
> 
> I would never show up to jury duty in a Starfleet duty uniform with a toy phaser. Everyone knows you don't carry weapons into a courtroom, and anything as formal as jury duty warrants the DRESS uniform.



ditto.


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Nonsense! Those people are nuts!




Torm, you really aren't helping your case here.....


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> And then, of course, there was the Modified Triumphant Class NCC-170100 U.S.S. Enterprise Carrier/Heavy Cruiser brought into service under Captain Sara Chandler in the year 2534.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Seems reminiscent of the sleekness of the Sovereign-class (Enterprise-E) with the nacelle/pylon structure of the Excelsior-class (Enterprise-B).


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 22, 2005)

since he requested it, a bump for mojo.


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## Torm (Apr 22, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Seems reminiscent of the sleekness of the Sovereign-class (Enterprise-E) with the nacelle/pylon structure of the Excelsior-class (Enterprise-B).



At the time that drawing was done, there wasn't a Sovereign class yet - but I see what you're saying. That's actually SIX warp nacelles you're seeing there, btw - two standard (but Klingon designed) nacelles on the outer back, two Sidewarp nacelles between those and slightly higher on the back, and two Defiant-like inboard nacelles on the saucer. The large 'city' area in the middle of the back contains, among other things, a set of decks for fighter support and launch. And toward the bottom of the back of the secondary hull is the Sidewarp keel. For scale, she's about five times the length of the 'D', and she has a bridge with a second story that extends further back behind the regular bridge and contains a C-I-C for fleet command - something I never understood why the 'D', being the fleet's flagship, didn't have.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Congratulations, 1701. Vulcan Welcomes You. You have permission to take up a polar geosync orbit - coordinates to follow.
> 
> (Wow - they ALL do it now, but your 1000 post thread went from 0 to Hivemind at Warp velocity!  )





That's 'cause Scotty does damn good work!


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## Crothian (Apr 22, 2005)

she's ba-ack...


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I'm already registered on some sites (recently) as mojo1701a, as well as my e-mail is mojo1701a@hotmail.com. I upgraded it from the old 1701, since it was full of spam.




And now this one will have upgraded spam!  :\


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Nightcloak said:
			
		

> I think it was after the D ship crashed in Generations




That's what happens when you let a woman drive..... oh, wait.....   










But at least I haven't crashed a starship into a big huge planet and then tell the officer, "What planet? It wasn't there a minute ago!"


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> And then, of course, there was the Modified Triumphant Class NCC-170100 U.S.S. Enterprise Carrier/Heavy Cruiser brought into service under Captain Sara Chandler in the year 2534.....
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Yes. You. Are.

Grade A Certified Trek Geek.



Moreso than I am, obviously!


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Some fan fiction I wrote a while back. I drew the ship, too.
> 
> That's WHY I say I'm such a geek.




Kewl! Better than anyone I know.... The last ship I saw the rough design of was our Klingon Vessel, the IKV Stormbringer (which is on the tshirts some of us bought).


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Well, I said fanfic, but it really never got beyond putting together a story bible - I've got character bios, racial descriptions for new races, a technical paper for the ship's new Sidewarp propulsion system, and a bunch of drawings and schematics. And a partially completed Chapter 1. And a bunch of ideas still in my head.





Geek.




Forget it..... SUPERGEEK!!!!!   

With no life, obviously.....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> wow, you almost belong on Trekkies.....





Are you sure he wasn't on there? Or Trekkies 2?  :\  


At least he isn't as bad as the "Commander" bimbo.   

And all I did one time was stick rank pins and combadge onto my Members Only jacket at work for awhile.... This was approx 8 years or so ago.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Nonsense! Those people are nuts!
> 
> I would never show up to jury duty in a Starfleet duty uniform with a toy phaser. Everyone knows you don't carry weapons into a courtroom, and anything as formal as jury duty warrants the DRESS uniform.




[cough]BULLCRAP[/cough]

Now when you wear a 'fleet uniform or other costume for your driver's license...... been there, done that.... Doubt I'll do it this year when I renew it, tho....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Torm, you really aren't helping your case here.....




Croth, you know he lost his paladinhood for lying.....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 22, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> At the time that drawing was done, there wasn't a Sovereign class yet - but I see what you're saying. That's actually SIX warp nacelles you're seeing there, btw - two standard (but Klingon designed) nacelles on the outer back, two Sidewarp nacelles between those and slightly higher on the back, and two Defiant-like inboard nacelles on the saucer. The large 'city' area in the middle of the back contains, among other things, a set of decks for fighter support and launch. And toward the bottom of the back of the secondary hull is the Sidewarp keel. For scale, she's about five times the length of the 'D', and she has a bridge with a second story that extends further back behind the regular bridge and contains a C-I-C for fleet command - something I never understood why the 'D', being the fleet's flagship, didn't have.




Talk about wanting MORE POWER!!! Tim Taylor would just looooooove that ship.... until he got kicked off it, after blowing it up, while wanting STILL more power.....   

Have you got a head-on shot? Or a top view?


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## DaveStebbins (Apr 22, 2005)

Congratulations mojo1701(a)! 1,000 posts is an important event. I'm looking forward to getting there myself someday.

-Dave


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## Torm (Apr 23, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Have you got a head-on shot?






There's the head-on for the unmodified Triumphant Class - done in Paint of all things, before I got decent with Paint Shop.

You can probably see the differences, like that the saucer on the standard ship is more like an actual Defiant class ship. These ships' general frameworks are replicated WHOLE at the Dyson Shipyards, and then fleshed out with detail work and certain elements used in power production that can't be reliably replicated. The Enterprise 170100 was created when some engineers at the yard took the Triumphant design, enlarged it by four, and began playing around. Normal Triumphant Class ships aren't Sidewarp capable, for instance - that is reserved to the Aurora Class Farships (Farship = an Extragalactic Starship Carrier for exploring other galaxies), which are normally the only ships with large enough power plants to handle it. Enterprise is - just barely, and it usually has unpleasant side effects on ship systems. Starfleet was pleased with and is using the resultant vessel, but considering they could have produced a Farship in that time and with that power expenditure, instead, it isn't something they'll be repeating regularly.  

But the layout for the nacelles and the rest in general is the same.  

An Aurora Class, also in Paint:


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## Crothian (Apr 23, 2005)

You are looking more and more likey for the next Trekkies movie......


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## mojo1701 (Apr 23, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> You are looking more and more likey for the next Trekkies movie......




Put in a good word for me to Denise Crosby!


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## Crothian (Apr 23, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Put in a good word for me to Denise Crosby!




Next time I see her I will....


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## megamania (Apr 23, 2005)

Happy 1020!


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## mojo1701 (Apr 23, 2005)

perhaps I should celebrate the following:

1701, 2161...

nah, just the 1701, and every 1000 thereafter.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 23, 2005)

I was gonna save my 1701st post for this thread but had gotten too carried away last night on arguing philosophy and moral stuff with Torm and Rystil....


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 24, 2005)

For Shame!  How could you?  Now you just ruined everything...somehow...


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## Rystil Arden (Apr 24, 2005)

Nawww


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## mojo1701 (Apr 24, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> For Shame!  How could you?  Now you just ruined everything...somehow...




My work here is done. Onto the GoldenEye...

Which is what I'm currently watching. It's in Spanish, too. Even though I don't understand them, I'm still having a ball!


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 24, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> For Shame!  How could you?  Now you just ruined everything...somehow...





Wha.....?


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## the Jester (Apr 24, 2005)

Now you just need to time travel back to before you had any posts and invest those posts with some serious compound interest... then when you meet your future self, mojo1701-D, and you can team up with your captain and take a phaser shot to the back... er... think I lost my train of thought there.


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## mojo1701 (Apr 25, 2005)

the Jester said:
			
		

> Now you just need to time travel back to before you had any posts and invest those posts with some serious compound interest... then when you meet your future self, mojo1701-D, and you can team up with your captain and take a phaser shot to the back... er... think I lost my train of thought there.




That's exactly what's been happening to the Trek franchise anyway...


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

worked for me


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Put in a good word for me to Denise Crosby!



I never have understood her popularity that way, her or really ANY of the "big name" female Trek characters other than T'Pol and Hoshi. The series has had much more attractive women in much less recurrent roles. Lt. Marlena, Natira, and Xarabeth from TOS, Robin Lefler, Leah Brahms, and Commander Shelby from TNG, Leeta from DS9, and Ensign Cutler and T'Pau from Enterprise - all much better looking than Uhura, Troi, Yar, Crusher, Kira, Dax, etc.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I never have understood her popularity that way, her or really ANY of the "big name" female Trek characters other than T'Pol and Hoshi. The series has had much more attractive women in much less recurrent roles. Lt. Marlena, Natira, and Xarabeth from TOS, Robin Lefler, Leah Brahms, and Commander Shelby from TNG, Leeta from DS9, and Ensign Cutler and T'Pau from Enterprise - all much better looking than Uhura, Troi, Yar, Crusher, Kira, Dax, etc.




All these trek women and no seven of nine?  What's up with that??  Personally, I fail to see the appeal of T'Pol.


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> All these trek women and no seven of nine?  What's up with that??  Personally, I fail to see the appeal of T'Pol.



NO 7 of 9. She has some (maybe TOO obvious) well constructed traits, but I do not find her face appealing at all. I know some guys don't care about that so much, but I do - quite a bit.


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Besides - *Voyager NEVER Happened*. It was all a delusion in the mind of an insane Tom Paris, constructed to convince himself that he wasn't such a disappointment to his father. All of the other crew other than Capt. Janeway were either workers at the asylum, or inmates - many of whom had come in after really going through something similar to what Paris imagines, but not _that_ similar. _Much_ more believable. And Admiral Janeway really was the captain of _that_ Voyager, who comes to see them occasionally to see how they are doing, but she would NEVER act the way she was depicted in "Year of Hell." And all the crap with Transwarp and Timefleet and the other future tech? Never happened. Madness.

Repeat this to yourself at least once a day. Get everyone you know to do so, too. And maybe we can still fix Trek, yet.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> All these trek women and no seven of nine?  What's up with that??  Personally, I fail to see the appeal of T'Pol.




Big lips, curvy, skin tight outfit and big gazongas? Sounds like a Seven of Nine "Clone"....   

But then I prefer watching Worf!   Or Spock!   

But then Torm has this "thing" for Vulcans.....


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Big lips, curvy, skin tight outfit and big gazongas? Sounds like a Seven of Nine "Clone"....




And the same lack of actiung ability!!  I'm not a 7 of 9 fan either, it is just always the one people seem to fixate on


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Besides - *Voyager NEVER Happened*.




Yes it did, I have the episodes that prove it


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Besides - *Voyager NEVER Happened*. It was all a delusion in the mind of an insane Tom Paris, constructed to convince himself that he wasn't such a disappointment to his father. All of the other crew other than Capt. Janeway were either workers at the asylum, or inmates - many of whom had come in after really going through something similar to what Paris imagines, but not _that_ similar. _Much_ more believable. And Admiral Janeway really was the captain of _that_ Voyager, who comes to see them occasionally to see how they are doing, but she would NEVER act the way she was depicted in "Year of Hell." And all the crap with Transwarp and Timefleet and the other future tech? Never happened. Madness.
> 
> Repeat this to yourself at least once a day. Get everyone you know to do so, too. And maybe we can still fix Trek, yet.





Just face it, Torm. It was a MAJOR RIP-OFF of Gilligan's Island!   I much prefer Gilligan's Island over this blatant rip-off! I prefer TOS, TNG, DS9 and part of Enterprise. 

Maybe Trek needs the B
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





-slap of Torm to set it straight!


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> NO 7 of 9. She has some (maybe TOO obvious) well constructed traits, but I do not find her face appealing at all. I know some guys don't care about that so much, but I do - quite a bit.




It's amazing what padding will do for some actresses......


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Big lips, curvy, skin tight outfit and big gazongas? Sounds like a Seven of Nine "Clone"....



Yeah, they did overdo the "7-of-9" treatment on T'Pol, especially toward the beginning of the series, but unlike Jeri Ryan, Jolene Blalock is a beautiful woman in her own right, and as the show has progressed, the makeup and wardrobe people have learned how to work with that a bit better without having to make _them_ stand up like some sort of freakish dirigibles. Did you see Friday's episode? Very nice.

Plus, yes, I have kind of a thing for Vulcans.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's amazing what padding will do for some actresses......




it has launched a number of carriers that otherwise would have gone bust


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I never have understood her [Denise Crosby] popularity that way, her or really ANY of the "big name" female Trek characters other than T'Pol and Hoshi. The series has had much more attractive women in much less recurrent roles. Lt. Marlena, Natira, and Xarabeth from TOS, Robin Lefler, Leah Brahms, and Commander Shelby from TNG, Leeta from DS9, and Ensign Cutler and T'Pau from Enterprise - all much better looking than Uhura, Troi, Yar, Crusher, Kira, Dax, etc.




That and she was a bit of a "frost B
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





" at a local convention one time...   Even Shatner acted pretty decently at this one little con he was at.... even going so far as to "joke" a bit on someone's cell phone because a fan was talking to someone during his talk... We got the "It's Bill Shatner", "YES, it's really Bill Shatner you're talking to!". By this time we were rolling...   Then had to leave early to go to a friend's wedding. Bill was already dressed for the wedding, I had to go home and change... Damned if I was wearing a 
	

	
	
		
		

		
		
	


	




ing dress to a con!!!!    

But most actors/actresses I've met have been cool. Had fun one time freaking out Gwyneth Walsh (one of the "Duras Sisters") with a Worf figure I'd put a pink bathrobe on and put it into a box for a different figure and had it sitting on the floor in the front row.... She kept looking down several times, trying to figure out what the hell....?    The I had her sign the box for funsies!   

A friend and I got Tony Todd to sign a cartoon he (the friend) did of Worf in the bathrobe with a rolled up newspaper, coffee mug and one pissed-off look on his face.... Tony laughed his butt off with that one!    (too bad the friend lost the pic...    )


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> And the same lack of actiung ability!!



Don't hold her looks against her. T'Pol and Seven are both supposed to be characters with contained emotions, so it is harder to see, but _Blalock_ can *act*. I was very moved by her performance when she went to see Porthos after they thought Archer was dead. And she does a lot with her eyes - the sort of thing Jeri Ryan should have been doing, but was either incapable or didn't care enough.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> it has launched a number of carriers that otherwise would have gone bust




Yowch!   

What a way to get all the sailors to "come to attention", eh?


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Don't hold her looks against her. T'Pol and Seven are both supposed to be characters with contained emotions, so it is harder to see, but _Blalock_ can *act*. I was very moved by her performance when she went to see Porthos after they thought Archer was dead. And she does a lot with her eyes - the sort of thing Jeri Ryan should have been doing, but was either incapable or didn't care enough.




I'm not judsging them soleing on these roles.  I've seen each in other roles and characters aas well and I was not impressed at all.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Yowch!
> 
> What a way to get all the sailors to "come to attention", eh?




Sorry, was never in the Navy....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Sorry, was never in the Navy....




Neither could I. Couldn't get in due to medical reasons.   

I have several friends, including my ex-boyfriend, who were in the Navy.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Don't hold her looks against her. T'Pol and Seven are both supposed to be characters with contained emotions, so it is harder to see, but _Blalock_ can *act*. I was very moved by her performance when she went to see Porthos after they thought Archer was dead. And she does a lot with her eyes - the sort of thing Jeri Ryan should have been doing, but was either incapable or didn't care enough.




I guess Jeri Ryan was wanting/hoping that her "physical attributes" woulda carried her thru the show....  :\ It did for those lonely fanboys who couldn't look at a female otherwise....


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Neither could I. Couldn't get in due to medical reasons.
> 
> I have several friends, including my ex-boyfriend, who were in the Navy.




I almiost went but the recruiters were to much like used car salesmen, they refused to give a straight and accurate answer.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Yes it did, I have the episodes that prove it




So do I. On the same tapes as DS9... Which makes me not want to watch them as Voyager just got more and more stupid as the years went on.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I guess Jeri Ryan was wanting/hoping that her "physical attributes" woulda carried her thru the show....  :\ It did for those lonely fanboys who couldn't look at a female otherwise....




and it got her one another show and she carried that as well.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> So do I. On the same tapes as DS9... Which makes me not want to watch them as Voyager just got more and more stupid as the years went on.




I wouldn't call it stupid; just hit and miss.  DS9 was also hit and miss in its later years with Dimion War and that crap.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I almiost went but the recruiters were to much like used car salesmen, they refused to give a straight and accurate answer.




I figured, at the time, that it woulda been the best thing I coulda done... Get the heck away from home... and such... But I'm still at home and got into Trek fandom instead.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I figured, at the time, that it woulda been the best thing I coulda done... Get the heck away from home... and such... But I'm still at home and got into Trek fandom instead.




Ya, getting away from home is good...moving out was such a fun day!!


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I wouldn't call it stupid; just hit and miss.  DS9 was also hit and miss in its later years with Dimion War and that crap.




I actually LIKED the Dominion War! Granted they had to "follow" in Babylon 5's steps as that show was beating them in the SF ratings during that time. That's another show I love! And I jumped in the middle of it when a friend recommended it to me!


----------



## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I guess Jeri Ryan was wanting/hoping that her "physical attributes" woulda carried her thru the show....  :\ It did for those lonely fanboys who couldn't look at a female otherwise....



Right - and unlike Ryan, fanboys will probably still want to see Blalock at conventions even after her looks have faded. Playing a character that is even slightly beloved for _more_ than just looks helps.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Ya, getting away from home is good...moving out was such a fun day!!




Can't afford to do that, unfortunately....   

I'd love to one day when I can afford to.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I actually LIKED the Dominion War! Granted they had to "follow" in Babylon 5's steps as that show was beating them in the SF ratings during that time. That's another show I love! And I jumped in the middle of it when a friend recommended it to me!




THe war I just found silly.  It wasn't fought that well, and just seemed rediculus at times.  There were some episodes that just were writter inventions to get some specific thing to happen it seems.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Right - and unlike Ryan, fanboys will probably still want to see Blalock at conventions even after her looks have faded. Playing a character that is even slightly beloved for _more_ than just looks helps.




So far, haven't seen any of the Enterprise stars at a con... but then I don't go to those Vulkons and Creation "cattle" cons. I prefer smaller cons where you have better access to the stars than those cons do. If they show up at Dragoncon, then I'll meet them. You can actually walk up and, depending on the crowd, get to actually talk to them and get the autograph!


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> THe war I just found silly.  It wasn't fought that well, and just seemed rediculus at times.  There were some episodes that just were writter inventions to get some specific thing to happen it seems.




There's always that. To have to "explain" away stuff to try to make it believable... when it isn't. And then think we fans are stupid. (see also Lucas' "explanation" of the Force. All it did was piss off alot of fans, probably as many or moreso than the intro of Jar-Jar did!   )


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> There's always that. To have to "explain" away stuff to try to make it believable... when it isn't. And then think we fans are stupid. (see also Lucas' "explanation" of the Force. All it did was piss off alot of fans, probably as many or moreso than the intro of Jar-Jar did!   )




well, most serious star war fans (and star trek fans for that mnatter) need a kick in the butt so I was happy for them to have something they hate.  I grow tired of them bickering and argueing ever last stupid detail and sucking all the fun out of it.


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I wouldn't call it stupid; just hit and miss.  DS9 was also hit and miss in its later years with Dimion War and that crap.



Sorry, but Voyager was STUPID. They jumped the shark so many times it wasn't funny - the most prominent time in my mind being the transwarp salamanders: Paris takes a shuttle out for a transwarp test drive, hits warp 10, turns into a salamander. Kidnaps Janeway (WHY Janeway?) and takes her to a far away planet at Warp 10, where she turns into a salamander and they have little salamander babies. They are then recovered. Not ONLY did their handling of what it means to hit Warp 10 make no sense based on what we were told about Warp and conventional physics before, and not ONLY was The Doctor able to turn them back to human lickety-split, and not ONLY did Janeway fail to take ANY responsibility for the new RACE they had created, but after this ... THEY COULD HAVE GONE HOME ANY BLOODY TIME THEY WANTED! The Doctor would be unaffected by Warp 10, and even if putting them in stasis didn't keep the crew from turning into salamanders, he could have turned them back! ARGH!


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I grow tired of them bickering and argueing ever last stupid detail and sucking all the fun out of it.



I agree, but there is a difference between sweating the small stuff and expecting a minimum amount of quality. I don't think it is too much to ask that the writers of a show at least be fans of the show and their own work, do you?


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> .....




that's what we would call a miss, in the hits and misses.  And in case you didn't get the memo, the phrase Jump the Shark, has well...Jumped the Shark.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I agree, but there is a difference between sweating the small stuff and expecting a minimum amount of quality. I don't think it is too much to ask that the writers of a show at least be fans of the show and their own work, do you?




No, I think it is too much to expect.  Many writers take the jobs they can get and are not in a position to turn down jobs.  I don't expect actors or anyone working on a show to have to like it when it is done.  It is a paycheck.  If they happen to like it, that's just bonus.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> well, most serious star war fans (and star trek fans for that mnatter) need a kick in the butt so I was happy for them to have something they hate.  I grow tired of them bickering and argueing ever last stupid detail and sucking all the fun out of it.




You act like all of us are like that....   

I guess then, under your "classification", then I'm a "casual" fan of both....


----------



## mojo1701 (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> NO 7 of 9. She has some (maybe TOO obvious) well constructed traits, but I do not find her face appealing at all. I know some guys don't care about that so much, but I do - quite a bit.




I don't like here eyes, especially. They bulge out too much. And I care about the face, too.



			
				Torm said:
			
		

> Plus, yes, I have kind of a thing for Vulcans.




Who doesn't? All that discipline, and none of the moodiness. I'm just kidding, but seriously, every non-elderly female playing a Vulcan was niiiice.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> You act like all of us are like that....
> 
> I guess then, under your "classification", then I'm a "casual" fan of both....




no, i make no reference to if anyo of you qualify, but I have my suspicions.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Sorry, but Voyager was STUPID. They jumped the shark so many times it wasn't funny - the most prominent time in my mind being the transwarp salamanders: Paris takes a shuttle out for a transwarp test drive, hits warp 10, turns into a salamander. Kidnaps Janeway (WHY Janeway?) and takes her to a far away planet at Warp 10, where she turns into a salamander and they have little salamander babies. They are then recovered. Not ONLY did their handling of what it means to hit Warp 10 make no sense based on what we were told about Warp and conventional physics before, and not ONLY was The Doctor able to turn them back to human lickety-split, and not ONLY did Janeway fail to take ANY responsibility for the new RACE they had created, but after this ... THEY COULD HAVE GONE HOME ANY BLOODY TIME THEY WANTED! The Doctor would be unaffected by Warp 10, and even if putting them in stasis didn't keep the crew from turning into salamanders, he could have turned them back! ARGH!




I think I missed that one. Thankful I did!


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I agree, but there is a difference between sweating the small stuff and expecting a minimum amount of quality. I don't think it is too much to ask that the writers of a show at least be fans of the show and their own work, do you?




You'd at least _hope_ so! But it doesn't always happen like that and it shows.   Badly. Or the non-fan corporate suits like to muck it up to suit their tastes and what they _think_ we fans would like.....  :\


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> that's what we would call a miss, in the hits and misses.  And in case you didn't get the memo, the phrase Jump the Shark, has well...Jumped the Shark.




And Elvis has left the building....


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> So far, haven't seen any of the Enterprise stars at a con...



Me, either. So far, I've only met Robin Curtis (Saavik), James Doohan (Scotty), and Aron Eisenberg (Nog). Which is fine with me - I don't really care that much about meeting the actors. The creative staff - writers and such - are what I'm more interested in.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> No, I think it is too much to expect.  Many writers take the jobs they can get and are not in a position to turn down jobs.  I don't expect actors or anyone working on a show to have to like it when it is done.  It is a paycheck.  If they happen to like it, that's just bonus.




That's the problem with Hollywood. It's a major "Dog-eat-dog" world there. Very cutthroat.

Too many actors/writers and not enough jobs for them.


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> No, I think it is too much to expect.  Many writers take the jobs they can get and are not in a position to turn down jobs.  I don't expect actors or anyone working on a show to have to like it when it is done.  It is a paycheck.  If they happen to like it, that's just bonus.



Well, yes, but you're talking about the way the production companies MAKE it work, not the way it SHOULD. :\


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Well, yes, but you're talking about the way the production companies MAKE it work, not the way it SHOULD. :\




Yes, I am talking about the reality of the situation.  as for how it should be, that's immaterial


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I'm just kidding, but seriously, every non-elderly female playing a Vulcan was niiiice.



I never found Kirstie Alley attractive at all. And I thought Robin Curtis was a much more appropriate look for Saavik, if not as good an actress, until I went to a convention and got to listen to her talk about Tetris and female masturbation. (Not kidding.  ) Now, seeing her kinda makes me uncomfortable.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

wow, that would have been cool to hear....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Me, either. So far, I've only met Robin Curtis (Saavik), James Doohan (Scotty), and Aron Eisenberg (Nog). Which is fine with me - I don't really care that much about meeting the actors. The creative staff - writers and such - are what I'm more interested in.




I like collecting the autographs.   

I've also met a few literary guests at various cons. They're usually very nice people!


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> wow, that would have been cool to hear....



Not as much as you would think. REALLY not as much.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Well, yes, but you're talking about the way the production companies MAKE it work, not the way it SHOULD. :\





That's just how it is in that business. Same for the costuming/makeup aspect as well. I know of about two people who are into that aspect of the business and they both would love to do more work in the industry!


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Not as much as you would think. REALLY not as much.




i dion't know, nothing gets me as hot as tetris does....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> i dion't know, nothing gets me as hot as tetris does....




Tetris is fun to play! I used to play that all the time. I need to see if the game works in windows XP...


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Tetris is fun to play! I used to play that all the time. I need to see if the game works in windows XP...




i'm sure there is a version out there for it


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> i'm sure there is a version out there for it





I'd rather see if the one I have works... I haven't seen an updated version that I know of... but then I usually don't peruse the game section at Best Buy much.


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## Crothian (Apr 25, 2005)

actually, i wouldn't be surpised to find a freeware version on the web somewhere


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## mojo1701 (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Me, either. So far, I've only met Robin Curtis (Saavik), James Doohan (Scotty), and Aron Eisenberg (Nog). Which is fine with me - I don't really care that much about meeting the actors. The creative staff - writers and such - are what I'm more interested in.




Same here. Although, I wouldn't mind meeting (or being) some of the people that had the recurring roles.



			
				Torm said:
			
		

> I never found Kirstie Alley attractive at all.




I guess I forgot about her. I didn't count her.



			
				Torm said:
			
		

> And I thought Robin Curtis was a much more appropriate look for Saavik, if not as good an actress, until I went to a convention and got to listen to her talk about Tetris and female masturbation. (Not kidding.  ) Now, seeing her kinda makes me uncomfortable.




You poor man.


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## megamania (Apr 25, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I never found Kirstie Alley attractive at all. And I thought Robin Curtis was a much more appropriate look for Saavik, if not as good an actress, until I went to a convention and got to listen to her talk about Tetris and female masturbation. (Not kidding.  ) Now, seeing her kinda makes me uncomfortable.




not your typical conversation....   how....why....errr....better not ask.


My imagination is much better....


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 25, 2005)

About as bad as Chase Masterson showing up 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





-faced and drunk at the last convention I was at.... Not to mention shocking the heck outta Bill who had to "deal with her" one year at the same con when her luggage got lost, by cussing out the poor lady who worked for the airline she'd used....   And she likes showing up in revealing outfits that just scream "RICH WHORE!"...  :\ 

I don't see how anyone could talk much about Tetris. And masturbation is for somewhere other than at a con in public where there might be kids listening.... Do I really wanna know what con you were at, Torm? Was it Fantasm?  :\


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I don't see how anyone could talk much about Tetris. And masturbation is for somewhere other than at a con in public where there might be kids listening.... Do I really wanna know what con you were at, Torm? Was it Fantasm?  :\



I don't honestly remember which company did the 'con, but I know it was billed as a Star Trek convention - not a misc sci-fi/fantasy con, or anything like that. I had never heard of Fantasm before your post just now - I went and looked it up, and I can safely say that no, I have not nor will I be attending anything like _that_.  The only costumes Mystra or I have ever dressed up in have been standard Star Trek or Star Wars stuff - I do _love_ handing out candy at Halloween in the Vader costume.  

It has been almost a decade, and I've tried to forget as much of her speech as possible, but it had something to do with her getting tennis elbow or carpal tunnel or something, and it being from masturbation, and someone telling her to tell people it came from playing Tetris, which she really _did_ get into afterward - or something like that.


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## Torm (Apr 25, 2005)

Hey everyone! A quick hijack of the hijack: If, as has been suggested, a "re-envisioning" is the next step for Trek, what changes in the premise would you like to see, and who should play the roles?

I'd like to see them define the tech a little better for the writers: No more crew transported in as children because of changes in their DNA the transporter shouldn't have paid any attention to. No more firing large amounts of "particle of the week" through the deflector dish. And all of it a little flakier - makes for better plot hooks, and gives McCoy a REASON to fear the transporters.

Also, I'd like to see 'em go through the current military regs, and make sure that if we ALREADY know it is stupid, we wouldn't be doing it in the future.

As for actors, I'm not sure who could play the Big Three, but I see Rachel True for Uhura, Shannon Elizabeth as the Arab replacement for Chekov, Robin Shou or Daniel Dae Kim as Sulu (changed to be Chinese instead of Japanese), and Paul McGillion as Scotty - although that last one would probably mean waiting for SG:Atlantis to end...


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 26, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I don't honestly remember which company did the 'con, but I know it was billed as a Star Trek convention - not a misc sci-fi/fantasy con, or anything like that. I had never heard of Fantasm before your post just now - I went and looked it up, and I can safely say that no, I have not nor will I be attending anything like _that_.  The only costumes Mystra or I have ever dressed up in have been standard Star Trek or Star Wars stuff - I do _love_ handing out candy at Halloween in the Vader costume.




No telling then.... I'm sure the con organizers were as shocked as the fans when they heard _that_ come out....   

Feel safe in the fact that, according to my sources, that it's the LAST Fantasm!! It was mature the first year and went waaaay beyond the icky, sick gutter after that! 

I've usually done the standard Star Trek or Star Wars garb myself. Even went so far as to, the last time I got my driver's license renewed, wear part of the costume for the pic...   Dunno if I'll do it this time around....  

I'm pondering whether or not to drag out the Klingon Garb for the Enterprise finale party..... Whee.... Three layers of hot costuming.   



> It has been almost a decade, and I've tried to forget as much of her speech as possible, but it had something to do with her getting tennis elbow or carpal tunnel or something, and it being from masturbation, and someone telling her to tell people it came from playing Tetris, which she really _did_ get into afterward - or something like that.




Yet it won't go away.....   

I used to play Tetris for a several hour stretch one time and never had any "tennis elbow" or carpal tunnel" from it.... Must've been from her other "extracurricular activity"...

And to think Bill's got the hots for her.....  :\ ::twitch:: And the fact that she's gonna be at Dragoncon this year..... Mebbe I should have him ask her about "playing Tetris"....


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 26, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Hey everyone! A quick hijack of the hijack: If, as has been suggested, a "re-envisioning" is the next step for Trek, what changes in the premise would you like to see, and who should play the roles?
> 
> I'd like to see them define the tech a little better for the writers: No more crew transported in as children because of changes in their DNA the transporter shouldn't have paid any attention to. No more firing large amounts of "particle of the week" through the deflector dish. And all of it a little flakier - makes for better plot hooks, and gives McCoy a REASON to fear the transporters.




Yeah. Make it seem more realistically possible. And not drown it in technobabble like TNG was sooo fond of doing.



> Also, I'd like to see 'em go through the current military regs, and make sure that if we ALREADY know it is stupid, we wouldn't be doing it in the future.




They should more closely follow some sort of "military procedure" if they're gonna be portrayed as a military organization (Starfleet). Show they're different than the civilians.

Maybe they should go back to what made Trek _Trek_. Go back to the classic formula and make it more comprehensive for the modern era. Classic Trek worked so well with the "modern day" issues being modified to look like an "alien issue" but you could tell it was their way of addressing the issues of the time period.

Make well-liked, well-fleshed-out characters that people would LOVE to see week after week. Have some sort of continuity from episode to episode or season to season. Show some growth between the characters. Show what makes them "tick". Show why we WANT to watch them evolve each week. And make the humans HUMAN, and the aliens, ALIEN. Not just a bunch of humans with funky face makeup!


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## mojo1701 (Apr 26, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> And make the humans HUMAN, and the aliens, ALIEN. Not just a bunch of humans with funky face makeup!




You're right. This isn't the '60s





...or the '90s.


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## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> They should more closely follow some sort of "military procedure" if they're gonna be portrayed as a military organization (Starfleet). Show they're different than the civilians.



Oh - there's another thing I'd like to see them get straight for the writers upfront - the economic system(s). In a system with, for all intents and purposes, near limitless resources, you would have one of two situations, as far as I can tell:

1. Everyone gets anything they want as far as needs and material goods are concerned. About 10% of the humans actually make advances and help sustain the system - Starfleet, Space Marines, Earth Defense Force, the Engineering Corp, stuff like that. Everyone else farts around doing whatever hobby-type stuff they want. An unfair burden is put on the Vulcans, whose system of c'thia (logic and ethics) won't allow them NOT to contribute - so they end up doing a lot of the work.


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## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

-continued- (Sorry, I seem to be having trouble making longer posts this evening.)

2. Everyone gets the bare minimum needs fulfilled - think Japanese business class economy hotels. But to motivate people, the government controls most of the resources to get more - bigger home, better food, knick-knacky stuff, etc. - and rewards people with credits based on their contribution in society to use to get those things. An unfair burden is put on the Vulcans, since their system of c'thia makes them the best ones to maintain the system: Individual Vulcans charged with the responsibility are much less likely to go corrupt and give their friends a bunch of credits or such.


----------



## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Classic Trek worked so well with the "modern day" issues being modified to look like an "alien issue" but you could tell it was their way of addressing the issues of the time period.



Indeed. Where is our homosexual marriage episode, or our abortion episode, or....  Even when they finally HAD a gay character on the bridge - Lt. Hawk from ST:First Contact - they barely bothered to tell anyone, and they killed him off immediately. Don't ask, don't tell, I guess.


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## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> And make the humans HUMAN, and the aliens, ALIEN. Not just a bunch of humans with funky face makeup!



Right. I like the idea that the reason we got along so well with the Vulcans, Andorians, and Tellarites was because of how similar they were to us, and the reason we went to war with the Klingons and the Romulans was again, because they were very similar to us and the Vulcans, and most species are VERY different. "Species 8472 before Voyager wussed them out" different. "Borg when Q first introduced us and they were scary, before First Contact made them stupid by introducing a queen" different.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 26, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Indeed. Where is our homosexual marriage episode, or our abortion episode, or....  Even when they finally HAD a gay character on the bridge - Lt. Hawk from ST:First Contact - they barely bothered to tell anyone, and they killed him off immediately. Don't ask, don't tell, I guess.





Guess what! You can write that controversial Trek episode that has something to do with your lifestyle!!   Talk about something that'll knock 'em wild!   

I didn't even know that Lt. Hawk was even gay! Unless it was in the book or quickly glossed over so fast that we missed it.... 

I guess it's more like, "Don't ask, don't tell, or you die!"


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## Crothian (Apr 26, 2005)

Next Generation had two episdoes that almost delat with homsexualityy.  The first was when Riker fell in the sexless character or the third gender person.  THen there was the one where Dr Crusher fell for the TRill that got placed in afemale body after the male one died.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 26, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Oh - there's another thing I'd like to see them get straight for the writers upfront - the economic system(s). In a system with, for all intents and purposes, near limitless resources, you would have one of two situations, as far as I can tell:
> 
> 1. Everyone gets anything they want as far as needs and material goods are concerned. About 10% of the humans actually make advances and help sustain the system - Starfleet, Space Marines, Earth Defense Force, the Engineering Corp, stuff like that. Everyone else farts around doing whatever hobby-type stuff they want. An unfair burden is put on the Vulcans, whose system of c'thia (logic and ethics) won't allow them NOT to contribute - so they end up doing a lot of the work.





I think there's some sort of "credit" system that they have.... but it's rarely mentioned. They should have a setup sorta like the Ferengi but maybe something along the lines of our "credit cards" and having paperless "money"... It seems like where does all this stuff come from and WHO PAYS FOR IT?!?! There's gotta be some sort of work system like we have now...


----------



## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I didn't even know that Lt. Hawk was even gay! Unless it was in the book or quickly glossed over so fast that we missed it....



It wasn't in the book OR the movie. It was in a bloody _press release_, shortly before the movie!


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## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Next Generation had two episdoes that almost delat with homsexualityy.  The first was when Riker fell in the sexless character or the third gender person.  THen there was the one where Dr Crusher fell for the TRill that got placed in afemale body after the male one died.



True, but you have to admit that they watered both of them down. In the Riker episode, she wasn't EITHER sex, and in the Crusher episode, the Trill seemed willing, but Crusher acted like, "well, you're female now, so that's that." Then, there was the DS9 episode that involved her getting reinvolved with the host of a symbiont whose former host one of her previous hosts had been married to. (Follow all that?  ) Now, they were both female, but it was watered down again by the fact that when they got married, they were M/F.

Peter David has been a little bolder in his Excalibur series, with the hermaphoditic crewperson and hir relationship with Dr. Selar, formerly of the Enterprise. But that's safely tucked away in novels that most casual Trek fans never read....


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## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I think there's some sort of "credit" system that they have.... but it's rarely mentioned.



That's what I'm getting at - it isn't just "rarely mentioned", it is frequently contradicted. Consider the episode of TNG where they recovered three people in suspended animation from the 20th century, and Riker's conversation with the investments guy. He said humanity had changed and they just didn't NEED money anymore. And that's just one example. It needs consistency.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 26, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> True, but you have to admit that they watered both of them down. In the Riker episode, she wasn't EITHER sex, and in the Crusher episode, the Trill seemed willing, but Crusher acted like, "well, you're female now, so that's that." Then, there was the DS9 episode that involved her getting reinvolved with the host of a symbiont whose former host one of her previous hosts had been married to. (Follow all that?  ) Now, they were both female, but it was watered down again by the fact that when they got married, they were M/F.
> 
> Peter David has been a little bolder in his Excalibur series, with the hermaphoditic crewperson and hir relationship with Dr. Selar, formerly of the Enterprise. But that's safely tucked away in novels that most casual Trek fans never read....




it was also the late 80's though and the so called gay revolution hadn't really started to be widespread at that time.  So, they did what they could.


----------



## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> it was also the late 80's though and the so called gay revolution hadn't really started to be widespread at that time.  So, they did what they could.



True. But Voyager? Enterprise? Still nothing. And not just about gays - about almost ANY actual issues. Roddenberry would be disappointed....


----------



## Crothian (Apr 26, 2005)

they are no longer platforms for social change, notrhign wrong with that


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## Torm (Apr 26, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> they are no longer platforms for social change, notrhign wrong with that



There's EVERYTHING wrong with that!

The shows were never designed to provide an actual action-style challenge to the characters - their ubertech makes any challenge moot, and if it doesn't right away, it can be modified in 10 seconds with a pair of tweezers. It was obviously never meant to be a serious "hard sci-fi" dramatization of the future of space exploration - too much hand-waved tech, again, and too many mistakes made that we wouldn't make NOW. So what is left? The human factor! That's what Trek was supposed to be about, and they've lost it. :\

I'll allow that maybe that's because there's not enough meat there for a whole series. Which is why I suggest the things I do for a reenvisioning - to bring more hard sci-fi and more realistic tech into it.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 26, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> they are no longer platforms for social change, notrhign wrong with that




But that was what the show was sorta based on. It was used, quite frequently, for Roddenberry to espouse his POV on various touchy subjects of the time. BUT neatly wrapped up in an alien culture so he'd be able to get it past NBC's censors.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 26, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> It wasn't in the book OR the movie. It was in a bloody _press release_, shortly before the movie!




I guess that's why I missed it....  :\ 

We don't usually see the press release and not all of us get the daily paper to read the bloody thing!


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## mojo1701 (Apr 27, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> It wasn't in the book OR the movie. It was in a bloody _press release_, shortly before the movie!




Also in the book, _Section 31: Rogue_. At least, I think it was Rogue... It was the TNG one. It took place 6 months before First Contact (with the exception of the prologue and the epilogue, that took place while the Enterprise-E was in spacedock).

Hawk had a "partner" aboard the Enterprise. That's pretty much it.

And I don't want the celebration of my 1000 posts to be closed by a mod, but the topic of homosexuality isn't as (pardon the pun) black and white as other topics discussed in Trek.

And the currency thing SHOULDN'T be explained. Let us continue to think about what would be the perfect system.


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## Crothian (Apr 27, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> There's EVERYTHING wrong with that!
> 
> The shows were never designed to provide an actual action-style challenge to the characters - their ubertech makes any challenge moot, and if it doesn't right away,




Except in DS9 when they meet the superior Dominion technology, and Voyager meet up with plenty of civilizations that were equal or better then them, and Enterprise the earlings are playing catch up technology wise a lot.


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## Crothian (Apr 27, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> But that was what the show was sorta based on. It was used, quite frequently, for Roddenberry to espouse his POV on various touchy subjects of the time. BUT neatly wrapped up in an alien culture so he'd be able to get it past NBC's censors.




that's what TOS was aboutm next gerneat ion moved away from that a bit and then the other series were really nothing like that at all


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## Torm (Apr 27, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> Let us continue to think about what would be the perfect system.



True. But actually setting a system in place would provide for consistency - and, if it were one with its own problems that could become plot hooks (like the two I described before - How about a story arc where Vulcan is thinking of secession because of it? Or one where, because of a war or some such, the Federation contemplates initiating a draft from the 90% do-nothing population?), it might lead to more, not less, thought on the matter.


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## Torm (Apr 27, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Except in DS9 when they meet the superior Dominion technology, and Voyager meet up with plenty of civilizations that were equal or better then them, and Enterprise the earlings are playing catch up technology wise a lot.



I'll give you that Enterprise is a little backward - but they're already running across tech that there is NO way they should be for consistency with the other shows: holotechnology, Borg tech, etc.

And as for DS9 and Voyager, well, I liked DS9, but BOTH of them had problems with what my friends and I call "convenient idiocy", where someone conveniently forgets what their tech is capable of. An example that permeates ALL of Trek is use of transporters - it has been established again and again that if you try to beam something through shields, most of the time you will grab something, but it will show up as slag on your pads. BUT - what if you don't WANT what you're grabbing, you just want someone else not to have it anymore? Like their computer core.  And you let the slag beam out into space.  

LOTS of shows have this problem - see Clark's proper use (or lack thereof) of his powers on Smallville.


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 27, 2005)

Wow this thread is so very one sided now...which is bad cause I think I came in on another side and now I can't fine it...   ACK!


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## Torm (Apr 27, 2005)

P.S. The Scramblers (scrambling transporters) are one of the weapons systems on my Enterprise 170100. Of course, most of the major powers have multi-layered, multi-phasic shielding and systems that detect for transporter beams and try to counter their frequency, so it isn't as big an advantage as you might think.


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## Torm (Apr 27, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> Wow this thread is so very one sided now...which is bad cause I think I came in on another side and now I can't fine it...   ACK!



Um... what?


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 27, 2005)

It's definitely a Trekkies thread for sure!!! With lots of Trek talk mixed in for great effect...


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## mojo1701 (Apr 29, 2005)

1100!


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 29, 2005)

2037!


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 29, 2005)

*claws at the walls ( wall? ) trying to escape*

FREE ME...SOMEBODY PLEASE!!!


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 29, 2005)

You're a mime.  The walls aren't real.


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 29, 2005)

Jdvn1 said:
			
		

> You're a mime.  The walls aren't real.





Ack!  Now I'm hallucinating!  Somebody get me outta here!!!


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 29, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> *claws at the walls ( wall? ) trying to escape*
> 
> FREE ME...SOMEBODY PLEASE!!!



Frees Lady Acoma.


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## Lady_Acoma (Apr 29, 2005)

Yay!  I'm Free!


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 29, 2005)

Please don't kill me this time!


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 29, 2005)

So what did you do to warrant a death sentence on 12 systems?


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 30, 2005)

I tried to talk to her.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 30, 2005)

That'll do it for you....


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