# Dark Sun!  I have them!



## Crothian

The books just arrived and I'm really digging these covers.  Of course I'm already busy with getting things ready for Gen Con but now I get to read 4e Dark Sun!


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## DarthMouth

OMGOD..

Tell something... anything...


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## abyssaldeath

Are you going to tell us anything or did you just want to brag? *I'm jealous*

Can you tell me anything about the Mule if you have the time?


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## ourchair

Thri-Kreen.

I must know more.

What are female Thri-Kreen like?

And more importantly, are they hot?


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## doctorhook

Don't waste time! It's been twenty-one minutes already, and you still haven't posted any details!


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## Crothian

DarthMouth said:


> OMGOD..
> 
> Tell something... anything...




Defiling doesn't seem as cool as it used to be but it can still be powerful if you don't care about your friends.  There is also a optional rule for each character to have a wild talent an at will psionic ability.  There are ten written up and it includes a random table for them so that is a nice touch from 2e brought forward.


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## Crothian

abyssaldeath said:


> Are you going to tell us anything or did you just want to brag? *I'm jealous*
> 
> Can you tell me anything about the Mule if you have the time?




I'm completely bragging.  

Mul encounter power: Incredible Toughness, end any on going damage, or stunned, dazed, slowed, or weakened condition effecting you.  

They seem to be the tough race I remember.


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## Crothian

ourchair said:


> Thri-Kreen.
> 
> I must know more.
> 
> What are female Thri-Kreen like?
> 
> And more importantly, are they hot?




Nothing really on gender distinctions and I'm not sure what a female thri-kreen looks like.  The pictures could be either I guess.


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## Stumblewyk

Psionic Wild Talent optional rules.  Tell me about them.  Please.

_*pulls a chair up the campfire and stares with rapt attention*_

Edit: You pre-answered me.  Thank you.


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## ourchair

Crothian said:


> Defiling doesn't seem as cool as it used to be but it can still be powerful if you don't care about your friends.  There is also a optional rule for each character to have a wild talent an at will psionic ability.  There are ten written up and it includes a random table for them so that is a nice touch from 2e brought forward.



I'd seen the exact crunch for defiling in scattered previews all over teh webz, and I assume it's unchanged? Basically increase damage but deal damage to yr allies?

While it is sick, mechanically, in terms of how that compares to its actual fluff ("And plant life DIE while small animals cry baby tears as you cast lightning bolt!") the crunch is kind of lame, honestly, and I say that as someone who never played 2E.


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## Crothian

ourchair said:


> I'd seen the exact crunch for defiling in scattered previews all over teh webz, and I assume it's unchanged? Basically increase damage but deal damage to yr allies?




you can reroll attack or damage roll, but have to take new result.  all allys within 20 squares take necrotic damage that ignores immunities and cannot be reduced in anyway



> While it is sick, mechanically, in terms of how that compares to its actual fluff ("And plant life DIE while small animals cry baby tears as you cast lightning bolt!") the crunch is kind of lame, honestly, and I say that as someone who never played 2E.




Magic still kills plant life whenever a spell is cast.  The energy has to come from somewhere and plant life is easy to drain I guess.


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## abyssaldeath

Crothian said:


> Nothing really on gender distinctions and I'm not sure what a female thri-kreen looks like.  The pictures could be either I guess.




They probably don't want any more *insert race* have boobs threads.


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## DarthMouth

Hmm.. something about defiling in rituals ?

The new class builds.. what those are about ? cool mechanics ?


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## IronWolf

doctorhook said:


> Don't waste time! It's been twenty-one minutes already, and you still haven't posted any details!




Even Crothian needs 30 minutes to completely read a source book....


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## Stumblewyk

I'm also curious about the other optional weapon breakage rules I've seen hinted at.  Anything?


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## Crothian

Pyreen is a epic destiney and that's cool to see them there.  

Nothing on specific rituals for defilers or anything special about how defiling interacts with rituals.  There is a ritual for turning defiled terrain into normal terrain.


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## Crothian

Stumblewyk said:


> I'm also curious about the other optional weapon breakage rules I've seen hinted at.  Anything?




Optional rule weapon breakage

non metal weapons, Fumbling Breakage: roll natural 1 weapon breaks

Reckless breakage: natural one gives option of reroll.  non metal weapon breaks but you could hit on reroll, metal weapons break on 1-5.


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## ourchair

abyssaldeath said:


> They probably don't want any more *insert race* have boobs threads.



So THAT's why there were no shardboobs or wildenboobs.


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## Stumblewyk

Crothian said:


> Optional rule weapon breakage
> 
> non metal weapons, Fumbling Breakage: roll natural 1 weapon breaks
> 
> Reckless breakage: natural one gives option of reroll.  non metal weapon breaks but you could hit on reroll, metal weapons break on 1-5.




So, it's the rule as presented in the Encounters, and something that looks like the 2e version of the rule...

Thank you, sir!


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## Peraion Graufalke

ourchair said:


> So THAT's why there were no shardboobs or wildenboobs.




Except that those two do have boobs. Or is my sarcasm detector broken?


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## Scribble

How'd you get it already? Special reviewer thing? Or are encounters stores already selling them?  Or other?


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## Peraion Graufalke

So, is the Dune Trapper in the Creature Catalog? What are its stats (just a short summary)?

And what about Nightmare Beasts? Those were very nasty in 2e.


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## ourchair

Peraion Graufalke said:


> Except that those two do have boobs. Or is my sarcasm detector broken?



I think you should be more concerned about your second base detector.


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## Crothian

Scribble said:


> How'd you get it already? Special reviewer thing?




They are review copies though they won't get reviewed till after Gen Con.


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## Mengu

Any new builds other than the warlock? What are they like?


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## Crothian

Peraion Graufalke said:


> So, is the Dune Trapper in the Creature Catalog? What are its stats (just a short summary)?
> 
> And what about Nightmare Beasts? Those were very nasty in 2e.





No Dune Trapper at least under Dune trapper.  

Nightmare Beast is there level 25 solo controller.  Also nightmare beast spawn, just a level 16 elite artillery.  Cool sidebar on the secrets of their origin.


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## DarthMouth

NPC stats for Aarakocra or Pterran ? or even Elan/Maenad ???????


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## Crothian

Mengu said:


> Any new builds other than the warlock? What are they like?




Wild Battlemind, arena fighter, animist shaman, sorcerer king warlock pact


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## Crothian

DarthMouth said:


> NPC stats for Aarakocra or Pterran ? or even Elan/Maenad ???????




There are a few NPC stats but I didn't see any of them


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## Peraion Graufalke

Crothian said:


> No Dune Trapper at least under Dune trapper.
> 
> Nightmare Beast is there level 25 solo controller.  Also nightmare beast spawn, just a level 16 elite artillery.  Cool sidebar on the secrets of their origin.




Thanks for the quick reply!
Now I'm wondering if they turned the Dune Trapper into a hazard. Oh well.

Yeah, that sounds like a Nightmare Beast.


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## Crothian

Peraion Graufalke said:


> Thanks for the quick reply!
> Now I'm wondering if they turned the Dune Trapper into a hazard. Oh well.




not in the hazards either


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## Luinnar

What character options are there besides the 10 themes (I think that is what they care called).


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## Crothian

Luinnar said:


> What character options are there besides the 10 themes (I think that is what they care called).




There are paragon paths for the themes and races, 5 epic destines, lots of feats, 5 new class builds


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## Scribble

On an awesomeness scale of say:  The Notebook to  Inception  (Notebook being the least awesome, Inception being the most) where would you place this product?


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## Crothian

Aside from your...interesting choice of movies to place at the extremes I'll rate these as Mad Max!  It does shift some towards Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and maybe a bit like DOA and Kansas City Confidential.  So, easily in the scope of Memento and City of Lost Children.


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## Scribble

Crothian said:


> Aside from your...interesting choice of movies to place at the extremes I'll rate these as Mad Max!  It does shift some towards Butch Cassidy and the Sundance Kid and maybe a bit like DOA and Kansas City Confidential.  So, easily in the scope of Memento and City of Lost Children.




This seems like a product I will indeed be happy with. 

I also think you seem to have good taste in movies...


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## Crothian

Scribble said:


> This seems like a product I will indeed be happy with.
> 
> I also think you seem to have good taste in movies...




You are under the assumption that those are movies I liked!


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## LuckyAdrastus

What is the arena fighter build like?  Does it lean heavily towards controller as secondary?  With all this mishegas we've been hearing about how Essentials is going to kill the previous builds, is arena fighter a "normal" fighter or an Essentials-style basic attacker?

And, thanks!


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## Crothian

LuckyAdrastus said:


> What is the arena fighter build like?  Does it lean heavily towards controller as secondary?  With all this mishegas we've been hearing about how Essentials is going to kill the previous builds, is arena fighter a "normal" fighter or an Essentials-style basic attacker?
> 
> And, thanks!




It doesn't seem like the essentials but I'm not expert on them.  There are dailies and everything thing seems like the PHB. Controller is its secondary role and it does have options to help do that.


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## LuckyAdrastus

Crothian said:


> It doesn't seem like the essentials but I'm not expert on them.  There are dailies and everything thing seems like the PHB. Controller is its secondary role and it does have options to help do that.




Thanks!

Could you explain a little more?  Specifically, class features do they have/not have compared to fighter weapon talent fighters?  What weapons/armor do they usually use (i.e. one-handed weapons, two-handed, two-weapons, shields, or some mix)?  What makes them controller-y?

I mean generally, of course, you don't have to write everything in the book down.  

EDIT: Nevermind, I see you answered this question at the RPG.net forum.  Thanks!


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## AntlerDruid

Can you please reveal what one of the other Noble Adept's powers are besides "Adept's Insight"?

Any mention of drow and how they could fit in?


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## Solvarn

ourchair said:


> Thri-Kreen.
> 
> I must know more.
> 
> What are female Thri-Kreen like?
> 
> And more importantly, are they hot?


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## Crothian

Askanipsion said:


> Can you please reveal what one of the other Noble Adept's powers are besides "Adept's Insight"?




Level 10 Utility Psionic Sustenance.  Bascially target one willing ally and they loose a healing surge and you regain 2 power points



> Any mention of drow and how they could fit in?




No mention that I see,.  They probably all died in the Cleansing Wars.


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## raptor112

Crothian said:


> Defiling doesn't seem as cool as it used to be but it can still be powerful if you don't care about your friends. There is also a optional rule for each character to have a wild talent an at will psionic ability. There are ten written up and it includes a random table for them so that is a nice touch from 2e brought forward.




Does the wild talent replace one of your at wills or is it in addition to your class at wills? Any chance we can get the names of a few of these wild talents (particularly if they have familar names)? Also are there feats that improve defiling?


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## Tzarevitch

What races are considered to be cannon in the setting now and what is the backstory for the tieflings?


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## AdmundfortGeographer

Is there any mention of just what exactly lead to the condition of Athas as presented? Does it mention a Green Age? A Blue Age?

Does it mention what the Sorcerer Kings were before they were Sorcerer Kings? Does say anything about genocidal wars waged long before the current date, either in the flavor text or in DM-only sidebars?


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## AntlerDruid

Thanks Crothian!


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## Aegeri

Can you give us a general idea of how many epic/paragon/heroic monsters are in the creature catalog? What's the highest level and such forth. I'm hoping that they haven't overloaded paragon/epic with elites/solos and forgot that it's nice to have regular monsters in these tiers


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## AdmundfortGeographer

I continue.

Any reveal on the origin of beasthead giants?

Does The Black earn a mention anywhere?

Are gith explicitly or implicitly linked to the planar gith-descended races?

Does the Athasian calendar get any detail? How about something never mentioned before, any talk about the Athasian astronomy: constellations and other planets . . . ?

Any non-creature challenges in the Creature Catalog? What, if so?


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## GreenWarlock

Can you help me figure something out?

On this thread: here there has been some confusion on if Elemental Spirit is an animist shaman ability or a character theme power. Which is right? Thanks in advance.

Also anything you can tell about the new warlock pact would be much appreciated, paragon paths, feats, etc. Con based warlocks (even if they have an option to be cha based as well) are always my favorite.


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## Raduin711

What details can you give us about the non-new races?

Are there any statistical changes presented for non-new races? 

I assume the following races are presented:

Humans
Halflings
Half-Elves
Dwarves
Elves
Dragonborn (Dray)
Eladrin
Tieflings
Goliaths
Are any more detailed than this?

Can any arcane class defile, or just warlocks?

Is there a special bard build?


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## Dice4Hire

Crothian said:


> Level 10 Utility Psionic Sustenance.  Bascially target one willing ally and they loose a healing surge and you regain 2 power points
> 
> 
> 
> No mention that I see,.  They probably all died in the Cleansing Wars.




How about the more common races, like from PHBI?


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## Crothian

raptor112 said:


> Does the wild talent replace one of your at wills or is it in addition to your class at wills? Any chance we can get the names of a few of these wild talents (particularly if they have familar names)? Also are there feats that improve defiling?




It replaces, it is something the character can select at creation or by taking the wild talent feat.  Names are like: body equilibrium, mental tools, senseing eye, thought projection.


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## Crothian

Tzarevitch said:


> What races are considered to be cannon in the setting now and what is the backstory for the tieflings?




Mul, Thrikreen, dragonborn, dwarf, eladrin, elf, goliath, half elf, ha;fling, human, tiefling.  

It does have a little bit on Genasi, kalashtar, and minotaur under Other Races and has a side bar for including still more.  

Tieflings are descandants of humans who made pacts with dark powers to survive and thrive on Athas.  Some are seeking to repay that debt.


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## Crothian

Eric Anondson said:


> Is there any mention of just what exactly lead to the condition of Athas as presented? Does it mention a Green Age? A Blue Age?
> 
> Does it mention what the Sorcerer Kings were before they were Sorcerer Kings? Does say anything about genocidal wars waged long before the current date, either in the flavor text or in DM-only sidebars?




It talks about the cleasning wars and the seek of power that destroyed this once lush forest like place.  I haven't seen blue or Green age mentioned by name but it does mention what the world was like before.  I haven't seen anything that says what the sorcerer kings were before but I haven't read their stuff in the monster book.


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## Crothian

Raduin711 said:


> What details can you give us about the non-new races?
> 
> Are there any statistical changes presented for non-new races?
> 
> Can any arcane class defile, or just warlocks?
> 
> Is there a special bard build?




I listed races above, no new stats for existing races, Wizards are the big defilers traditionally but any arcane class can.  No new bard build.


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## Crothian

GreenWarlock said:


> Can you help me figure something out?
> 
> On this thread: here there has been some confusion on if Elemental Spirit is an animist shaman ability or a character theme power. Which is right? Thanks in advance.




new class feature for shaman *animist shaman).  And now I'm off to work.  I may get more things posted today but it is a busy day ahead.


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## theskyfullofdust

Just a quick post to say thanks very much for all the info. I think I'll buy the set when they come out


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## Jack99

Do the monsters in DS follow the MM3 guidelines (solo and elite have normal defenses, solo have x4 hit points and most of all, monsters do around level + 8 damage) for monsters?


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## Aegeri

Jack99 said:


> Do the monsters in DS follow the MM3 guidelines (solo and elite have normal defenses, solo have x4 hit points and most of all, monsters do around level + 8 damage) for monsters?




The preview monsters certainly do, in fact I actually made a comment when Dark Sun creatures were being showed off that I felt that they were more powerful than normal. That was before I was aware of the changes to the maths in MM3. Everything they've previewed definitely looks right though.


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## Jack99

Aegeri said:


> The preview monsters certainly do, in fact I actually made a comment when Dark Sun creatures were being showed off that I felt that they were more powerful than normal. That was before I was aware of the changes to the maths in MM3. Everything they've previewed definitely looks right though.




Cool. I must confess I have been too busy to check out the monster previews, and thus totally forgot they were there. I am off to wizards.com


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## Aegeri

Jack99 said:


> Cool. I must confess I have been too busy to check out the monster previews, and thus totally forgot they were there. I am off to wizards.com



They previewed a Sorcerer King as well, he was a level 29 elite. Looked pretty solid stat block - especially because you can put a LOT of monsters with him. Dark Sun monsters are about as powerful as MM3 creatures in general, which is definitely a good thing.


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## Nightchill

Is the monetary system the original /100 (gp -> cp), and are there 'bits'? I was a little surprised that a recent excerpt on wizards.com for Dark Sun was using gp..


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## Crothian

Jack99 said:


> Do the monsters in DS follow the MM3 guidelines (solo and elite have normal defenses, solo have x4 hit points and most of all, monsters do around level + 8 damage) for monsters?




It looks like it but I'm not doing the math to double check.


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## Crothian

Nightchill said:


> Is the monetary system the original /100 (gp -> cp), and are there 'bits'? I was a little surprised that a recent excerpt on wizards.com for Dark Sun was using gp..




I read some stuff on ceramic coins so it is there but I'm not sure how much.


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## pawel

*dark sun weapons*

Would you be so kind, and said about weapons used by thri kreen and gladiators

Please provide statistics (Weapon dice, prof)


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## Nightchill

Crothian said:


> I read some stuff on ceramic coins so it is there but I'm not sure how much.



Understood, thanks 

Followup question, are there any non-fluff modifications to Elves to make them more Athasian? e.g. increased movement speed.


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## Mithreinmaethor

pawel said:


> Would you be so kind, and said about weapons used by thri kreen and gladiators
> 
> Please provide statistics (Weapon dice, prof)




Although if he chose to do so he could, but he really shouldnt give out all that type of info.  It would be just like cutting and pasting the stat block out of the book.


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## Crothian

pawel said:


> Would you be so kind, and said about weapons used by thri kreen and gladiators
> 
> Please provide statistics (Weapon dice, prof)




There is almost 20 weapons.  One weapon is the Carrikal, it's a dual bladed axe with both heads facing forward.  It is +2 prof, d8 damage, and brutal 2!


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## Crothian

Nightchill said:


> Understood, thanks
> 
> Followup question, are there any non-fluff modifications to Elves to make them more Athasian? e.g. increased movement speed.




Nope, not even a feat that would do it for them.


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## Crothian

Mithreinmaethor said:


> Although if he chose to do so he could, but he really shouldnt give out all that type of info.  It would be just like cutting and pasting the stat block out of the book.




You'll notice I try to answer questions without giving away the goose.  I am mindful of providing too much information and I do want people to go out and buy the book.


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## Mithreinmaethor

Crothian said:


> You'll notice I try to answer questions without giving away the goose.  I am mindful of providing too much information and I do want people to go out and buy the book.




Yeah I noticed that and appreciate the info you can provide.  I was just giving a heads up to the overly needy people that will want you to reproduce the entire book in a forum post lol


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## AdmundfortGeographer

In case it was just skipped mistakenly, I'll re-post my second post:

Any reveal on the origin of beasthead giants?

Does The Black earn a mention anywhere?

Are gith explicitly or implicitly linked to the planar gith-descended races?

Does the Athasian calendar get any detail? How about something never mentioned before, any talk about the Athasian astronomy: constellations and other planets . . . ?

Any non-creature challenges in the Creature Catalog? What, if so?


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## TheNinjaD

I'm sure there are a hundred questions I could ask, just like everyone else. They'll all be answered in time, though. For now, I just want to say thank you.


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## pawel

Crothian said:


> You'll notice I try to answer questions without giving away the goose. I am mindful of providing too much information and I do want people to go out and buy the book.




Thank you for your patience and understanding. if you just wanted to say something about the weapons of Thri- Kreens ( exacly are they have double weapon; please  and I think they have feats similar to dwarf weapon training)
I swear that this is the last question. I can not wait to buy the book


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## Mithreinmaethor

pawel said:


> Thank you for your patience and understanding. if you just wanted to say something about the weapons of Thri- Kreens ( exacly are they have double weapon; please  and I think they have feats similar to dwarf weapon training)
> I swear that this is the last question. I can not wait to buy the book




Pawel have you tried checking out the pregen characters they made for DDXP the Free RPG gameday and the D&D Encounters sessions?

They have several weapons being used.  You can do the math backwards to figure out the proficiency etc.


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## Crothian

Eric Anondson said:


> In case it was just skipped mistakenly, I'll re-post my second post:




Sorry, with all the questions I do miss some.  

*Any reveal on the origin of beasthead giants?*

not under the giant lisitng which does have an entry for Beast Giant and Beast Titan.

*Does The Black earn a mention anywhere?*

I have not ran across it yet, but I haven't done a full reading of both books.

*Are gith explicitly or implicitly linked to the planar gith-descended races?*

Yes, rumored.

*Does the Athasian calendar get any detail? How about something never mentioned before, any talk about the Athasian astronomy: constellations and other planets . . . ?*

I don't see any calendars.  Brief mention of constellations and the two moons.  

*Any non-creature challenges in the Creature Catalog? What, if so?*

There is fantastic terrain like Defiled Terrain, barbed cacti, mudflats, etc.  There are also hazards like Blood Tree, Badlands Tremor, Dust Funnel....


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## Dragonhelm

Crothian said:


> It does have a little bit on Genasi, kalashtar, and minotaur under Other Races and has a side bar for including still more.




I'd like to hear a bit about all of these.  What is minotaur society like?  What are the origins of the kalashtar?  Any similarities with the kalashtar and the elan/maenad/xeph of the 3.5 XPH?

No mention of shardminds?  I figured they'd be a shoe-in if you made them obsidian.

Thanks in advance.


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## Crothian

pawel said:


> Thank you for your patience and understanding. if you just wanted to say something about the weapons of Thri- Kreens ( exacly are they have double weapon; please  and I think they have feats similar to dwarf weapon training)




There are double weapons.  None of the weapons seem to be listed as Thri-Kreen only or anything like that though.  There is not Thri-Kreen feat like weapon training.  Some weapons do have feat associated with them of Novice, Expert, and Specialist like in the Dragon magazine that did the arena fighting article.


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## Crothian

Dragonhelm said:


> I'd like to hear a bit about all of these.  What is minotaur society like?  What are the origins of the kalashtar?  Any similarities with the kalashtar and the elan/maenad/xeph of the 3.5 XPH?
> 
> Thanks in advance.




Each gets a paragraph so not a lot of info.  Minotaurs are magically altered beast giants that are mostly feral and violent reavers.  Kalashtar are just descendants of psionic humans who locked themselves away in remote monataries.  It's a race from the Eberron book and uses those stats.

Edit: No shard mind mentioned


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## pawel

Mithreinmaethor said:


> Pawel have you tried checking out the pregen characters they made for DDXP the Free RPG gameday and the D&D Encounters sessions?
> 
> They have several weapons being used. You can do the math backwards to figure out the proficiency etc.




yes, but there is a lot of mistakes and there is nothing about gythka.
And this weapon I am particularly interested in because I'm doing thre-kreen whirler now.


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## Crothian

pawel said:


> yes, but there is a lot of mistakes and there is nothing about gythka.
> And this weapon I am particularly interested in because I'm doing thre-kreen whirler now.




Gythka is in here and there are feats for it (Novice, Expert, and Specialist)


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## TheNinjaD

Crothian said:


> Edit: No shard mind mentioned



I really would have expected them to make an appearance. This surprises me.


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## pawel

Crothian said:


> There are double weapons. None of the weapons seem to be listed as Thri-Kreen only or anything like that though. There is not Thri-Kreen feat like weapon training. Some weapons do have feat associated with them of Novice, Expert, and Specialist like in the Dragon magazine that did the arena fighting article.




Thanks for the reply


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## Raduin711

Crothian said:


> Kalashtar are just descendants of psionic humans who locked themselves away in remote monataries.  It's a race from the Eberron book and uses those stats.
> 
> Edit: No shard mind mentioned




That reminds me of the Villichi, from the Tribe of One series.  I like that.


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## Crothian

Raduin711 said:


> That reminds me of the Villichi, from the Tribe of One series.  I like that.




It seems like they would work well for them.


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## pawel

Crothian said:


> Gythka is in here and there are feats for it (Novice, Expert, and Specialist)



I imagine it's Thri Kreen Predator whirling and throwing Gythka


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## GreenWarlock

Thanks for the quick response to my question, even if it did prove me wrong  

And just to ask again anything that really sticks out as amazing with the new warlock build would be much appreciated. Thanks again.


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## Crothian

GreenWarlock said:


> Thanks for the quick response to my question, even if it did prove me wrong
> 
> And just to ask again anything that really sticks out as amazing with the new warlock build would be much appreciated. Thanks again.




He gets his power from the Sorcerer kings, nothing will be cooler then that!  

The powers are neat and all but just the idea of the pact is really cool to me.


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## GreenWarlock

Crothian said:


> He gets his power from the Sorcerer kings, nothing will be cooler then that!
> 
> The powers are neat and all but just the idea of the pact is really cool to me.



lol i completely agree. I've been arguing psionics are better than arcane magic with my brother for a while now, but if we ever play dark sun and i get to be a striker? Sorcerer-king Pact without a doubt.


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## ArcaneSpringboard

Any info on the Tembo?


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## ourchair

Nightchill said:


> Is the monetary system the original /100 (gp -> cp), and are there 'bits'? I was a little surprised that a recent excerpt on wizards.com for Dark Sun was using gp..



We're currently using the 100 cp to the gp rule in my off the cuff ruled Dark Sun campaign, so it shouldn't be a problem that they're using 'gp.' 

In _Bloodsand Arena_'s Kaldras' Betrayal you get '200 gold pieces worth of ceramic' which is a to of money, but it doesn't render ceramic obsolete as you're still getting paid in it for caravan duty.


----------



## Wik

Hey Crothian.  Loving this thread.  Can't wait to get my grubby paws on the set.  Until then, though, I'll have to rely on you to curb my gnawing curiousity.  I'm specifically curious on the following:  

1)  Roughly how many monsters are described as being "From the feywild"?  How much info is given on the athasian feywild?  I ask only because Aegeri has made a bet in a previous thread.   

2)  How much page space do the city-states take up?  Which city-states are supplied with maps?

3)  What's the arrangement on the sorcerer kings like in the monster book?  Does each SK have his/her own specialized servants and minions?  

4)  Is Dregoth in the monster book?  What about the Dragon of Tyr?

5)  Anything about potion fruits?  Can they be "planted" as in older editions?


----------



## Crothian

The city styates seeme to each geta few pages.  Tyr gets more then others I think but that is to be expected.  I think each of the described ones is mapped.

Some SK's do have mionins but not much.  

Dragon of Tyr is in the monster book, I don't recall Dergoth.

Yes, Potion fruits are here but I don't remember seeing anything on planting them.

This is from memory as books are not with me.


----------



## Baumi

Do Dark Sun Characters use Inherent Bonuses or the normal magical Equipment rules. If yes, how does the weapon-break rules work with magical weapons?


----------



## Crothian

They have an option for inherit bonuses at set levels that don't stack with mgical items of course so they can be used together.

I think magical weapons can break but I'm not 100% sure on that.  

So far though no mention of the Halfings in Space!


----------



## Baumi

Thanks!

But what about Halflings in Space?


----------



## Crothian

ArcaneSpringboard said:


> Any info on the Tembo?




I don't know what that is and it is not listed in the index.  It could be somewhere in the books but I'm not sure where to look.


----------



## Crothian

Baumi said:


> Thanks!
> 
> But what about Halflings in Space?




It's Dark Sun lore that someday the ancient Halflings from the Green Age that left on a comet or something will one day be back.  I don't recall what book that was published in but it was there in 2e days.


----------



## Crothian

Wik said:


> 1)  Roughly how many monsters are described as being "From the feywild"?  How much info is given on the athasian feywild?  I ask only because Aegeri has made a bet in a previous thread.




The Fey Wild is mostly gone.  There are pockets of it crumbling in different places but it not a good [place to be.  There is not a lot of info on it. Very few monsters seem to be from the Feywild.


----------



## Crothian

*4) Is Dregoth in the monster book? *

Yes, he is


----------



## Crothian

double post


----------



## Aegeri

Could you elaborate on the general "levels" of the monsters in the creature catalog? What's the highest level dood?

Edit: Crothian I noticed this over on RPG.net



			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> Mark Hall said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> How does the Mul's "Only 6 in 72 hours" work?  That part confuses me.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> confuses me too
Click to expand...



Normally to get the benefit of an extended rest you have to have had at least 6 hours of sleep in the past 24 hours. If you haven't had 6 hours of sleep in 24 hours, say your character has been up for 30 hours straight running from slavering monsters trying to murder him you get no benefit at all. The Mul ignores this, instead he needs only 6 hours of sleep every 72 hours to gain the benefit of an extended rest - meaning they can be up an astounding 3 days straight without sleep and not suffer as much as another character. So the Mul in the party that kept going 30 hours straight would gain a benefit out of his extended rest, while the other PCs wouldn't.

Edit: Rules citations.

Sleeping and Waking Up. Extended Rest.


----------



## Crothian

Aegeri said:


> Could you elaborate on the general "levels" of the monsters in the creature catalog? What's the highest level dood?




There are about 9 creatures of level 1-12. There are at least 2 and as many as 7 monsters per level up to 23.  And then there is at least one monster of each level up to 30.  Dragon of Tyr tops in as level 33.  All in all I count 178 monsters.


----------



## Aegeri

Crothian said:


> There are about 9 creatures of level 1-12. There are at least 2 and as many as 7 monsters per level up to 23.  And then there is at least one monster of each level up to 30.  Dragon of Tyr tops in as level 33.  All in all I count 178 monsters.




Interesting. I expected more heroic monsters than that to be honest. Nine is quite a small number.


----------



## Peraion Graufalke

Crothian said:


> It's Dark Sun lore that someday the ancient Halflings from the Green Age that left on a comet or something will one day be back.  I don't recall what book that was published in but it was there in 2e days.




What, seriously? 

Anyone remember which book that was in?


----------



## Pseudopsyche

Crothian said:
			
		

> There are about 9 creatures of level 1-12. There are at least 2 and as many as 7 monsters per level up to 23. And then there is at least one monster of each level up to 30. Dragon of Tyr tops in as level 33. All in all I count 178 monsters.





Aegeri said:


> Interesting. I expected more heroic monsters than that to be honest. Nine is quite a small number.



Presumably Crothian means 9 monsters per level through level 12.

Crude estimates based on my interpretation of Crothian's post:
12 levels of ~9 monsters: ~108 monsters
11 levels of ~4.5 monsters: ~50 monsters
7 levels of ~1.5 monsters: ~10 monsters

Total: about 168 monsters, close to the given count of 178

Or did I misinterpret you?  Are you saying that 9 monsters per level seems quite small?


----------



## Aegeri

Ah, that makes far more sense now you put it like that and you interpreted my misinterpretation of his post correctly.


----------



## Crothian

Pseudopsyche said:


> Presumably Crothian means 9 monsters per level through level 12.




That is correct and a rough average.


----------



## Jack99

Aegeri said:


> Interesting. I expected more heroic monsters than that to be honest. Nine is quite a small number.






Pseudopsyche said:


> Presumably Crothian means 9 monsters per level through level 12.
> 
> Crude estimates based on my interpretation of Crothian's post:
> 12 levels of ~9 monsters: ~108 monsters
> 11 levels of ~4.5 monsters: ~50 monsters
> 7 levels of ~1.5 monsters: ~10 monsters
> 
> Total: about 168 monsters, close to the given count of 178
> 
> Or did I misinterpret you?  Are you saying that 9 monsters per level seems quite small?




Damn, for a sec there, I thought they had gone all the way and made Dark Sun really... like really deadly.. 

Can you imagine that? Hard-core PoL world where most monsters are level 11+..


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard

Crothian said:


> I don't know what that is and it is not listed in the index.  It could be somewhere in the books but I'm not sure where to look.




It's a monster, and AFIAK, a classic Dark Sun monster, so I'd be surprised if it wasn't in the Creature Catalog.


----------



## Crothian

Ya, they are there.  Only a level 6 solo, once I read about them I recalled what they were and I thought they would be tougher.


----------



## Crothian

Jack99 said:


> Can you imagine that? Hard-core PoL world where most monsters are level 11+..




Characters that lived would certainly advance quickly!


----------



## Dragonblade

Anything on Oronis of Kurn (the redeemed sorcerer-king who became an avangion)?

How about the sorcerer-king who got pulled into Ravenloft (can't recall the name)?


----------



## Dragonblade

Also, do they have the rules for Dragon or Avangion transformation?

I presume it would built into an epic destiny but is there like a template or something to describe all their powers and auras and stuff? Though in 4e I suspect it would be highly nerfed...


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard

Crothian said:


> Ya, they are there.  Only a level 6 solo, once I read about them I recalled what they were and I thought they would be tougher.




They weren't tough, but they level drained in 2e.  Do they have a nasty power along that line? 

I'm pretty stoked it's a Solo though.


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard

Dragonblade said:


> Also, do they have the rules for Dragon or Avangion transformation?
> 
> I presume it would built into an epic destiny but is there like a template or something to describe all their powers and auras and stuff? Though in 4e I suspect it would be highly nerfed...




I've heard both are Epic Destinies.


----------



## Crothian

Dragonblade said:


> Anything on Oronis of Kurn (the redeemed sorcerer-king who became an avangion)?
> 
> How about the sorcerer-king who got pulled into Ravenloft (can't recall the name)?




No, not that I expected them.


----------



## Crothian

Dragonblade said:


> Also, do they have the rules for Dragon or Avangion transformation?




They are Epic Destinies.


----------



## Crothian

ArcaneSpringboard said:


> They weren't tough, but they level drained in 2e.  Do they have a nasty power along that line?
> 
> I'm pretty stoked it's a Solo though.




No level drain but automatic necrotic damage for an aura and once bloodied healing in the aura is lessened dramatically.  They can also cause characters to lose healing surges.


----------



## ekluag

Alright, what can you tell me about the quick battlemind build? And what support it has in terms of feats and paragon paths? And battlemind stuff in general?


----------



## Crothian

ekluag said:


> Alright, what can you tell me about the quick battlemind build? And what support it has in terms of feats and paragon paths? And battlemind stuff in general?




Wild Battlemind

Class feature: Wild Focus.  pulls an enemy towards the character and marks him.  

2 heroic level feats for them.  One has the wild focus pull a target 2 more squares.  The other increases the forced movement of all their battlemind powers by one.  

There are no paragon paths for them.  All the PP's are either racial or build off of one of the character themes.

I can't say much about the build as I've never played or seen a battlemind in action so know little about them other then reading the class.


----------



## pawel

a new day and a new question

Could you explain a little bit predator paragon path?

Are there any interesting feats for thri kreen?


----------



## Crothian

pawel said:


> a new day and a new question
> 
> Could you explain a little bit predator paragon path?
> 
> Are there any interesting feats for thri kreen?




Of the new races I think thri kreen get the most options, so lots of neat things for them.  THere is a thri-kreen monk feat, a thri-kreen ranger feat, and one that makes their claws become reliable.  

Lots of flavor of a hunting and jumping into action thri-kreen.


----------



## Shroomy

Crothian said:


> Of the new races I think thri kreen get the most options, so lots of neat things for them.  THere is a thri-kreen monk feat, a thri-kreen ranger feat, and one that makes their claws become reliable.
> 
> Lots of flavor of a hunting and jumping into action thri-kreen.




That makes a lot of sense since they're the most portable and popular race coming out of DS (I think its interesting that they're introducing kalashtar to Athas, as its a nice way to expand them beyond Eberron and makes me wonder how they'll introduce a more generalized mul).

I have an irrational love of the aarakocra since I first read about them in the 1e FF.  Can you provide a little more detail on them?


----------



## Crothian

Shroomy said:


> I have an irrational love of the aarakocra since I first read about them in the 1e FF.  Can you provide a little more detail on them?




Level 6 skirmishers.  They live high in the cliffs and hunt and scavenger though they are also a deeply spiritual people.


----------



## Silverblade The Ench

tembo sound right, lol, wasn't the damage that made them scary, it was the life they sucked that sucked!  
level drain was horrible, especially from a low lvl critter!! Drain = broken and obnoxious as hell in 1st/2nd ed, hated it as DM, where as losing healing surges is scary and nasty but doesn't wreck a character, which is damn better

Tembo are evil prowlers and hunters of the weak and infirm, hated killers of kids, precious farm animals and elderly (who are important "wisemen" etc in Athas, think about it, no written culture etc so elders really would be respected)
Tembo are NOT "dreadnoughts", more like to jump out, suck life, flee, pounce when vicitm isn't looking, rinse repeat until they are a withered husk
so a _skirmisher _ or lurker is more likely


my fave were those damned bloody belgoi, I had to makeup custom rules to make them more fun, less suck, or insta gib
how good are they now as dangerous NPCs?


----------



## AntlerDruid

What does Telekinetic Grasp do?

What does Body Equilibrium do?

Love the Wild Talents so far!


----------



## Aegeri

Incidentally, are the books both hardcover or is one softcover?


----------



## Crothian

Aegeri said:


> Incidentally, are the books both hardcover or is one softcover?




both are hard cover


----------



## Crothian

Askanipsion said:


> What does Telekinetic Grasp do?
> 
> What does Body Equilibrium do?




You manipulate an object (less then 20lbs) or move it 5 squares 

You move your speed and gain +5 acrobatics to balance and do not sink over soft and brittle terrain

I'll let you figure out which is which!


----------



## AntlerDruid

Crothian said:


> You manipulate an object (less then 20lbs) or move it 5 squares
> 
> You move your speed and gain +5 acrobatics to balance and do not sink over soft and brittle terrain
> 
> I'll let you figure out which is which!




Wow so Telekinetic Grasp is finally a Psionic version of Mage Hand!! YAY!!!

Thanks Crothian!!


----------



## Crothian

Silverblade The Ench said:


> my fave were those damned bloody belgoi, I had to makeup custom rules to make them more fun, less suck, or insta gib
> how good are they now as dangerous NPCs?




They make a good enemy and especially hate the Eladrin so plenty to do with them as an enemy if one of the PCs is of that race.  There are stat blocks for 4 different kinds of them so a good variety making them easier to use.


----------



## Crothian

a page or so back someone asked about a Calendar, it turns out there is.


----------



## jonesy

Peraion Graufalke said:


> Crothian said:
> 
> 
> 
> It's Dark Sun lore that someday the ancient Halflings from the Green Age that left on a comet or something will one day be back.  I don't recall what book that was published in but it was there in 2e days.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> What, seriously?
> 
> Anyone remember which book that was in?
Click to expand...


Might have been Windriders of the Jagged Cliffs. I remember there having been something similar. A prophecy or somesuch.


----------



## josha

Tell me something:
What are some of the low-level creatures in the monster books? (some stats would be nice.)


----------



## erf_beto

Regarding Wild Talents, you mentioned that...



Crothian said:


> It replaces <an at-will power>, it is something the character can select at creation or by taking the wild talent feat.  Names are like: body equilibrium, mental tools, senseing eye, thought projection.




And then, you gave some examples like...



Crothian said:


> You manipulate an object (less then 20lbs) or move it 5 squares
> 
> You move your speed and gain +5 acrobatics to balance and do not sink over soft and brittle terrain.



So... Huh? 

Do you trade an at-will attack power for an at-will utility power?


----------



## Crothian

erf_beto said:


> Do you trade an at-will attack power for an at-will utility power?




My bad, I misread it.  At the the DM's discretion a character can select one of the Wild Talents.  There is also a Wild Talent Master feat that allows the character to select 3.


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer

Crothian said:


> a page or so back someone asked about a Calendar, it turns out there is.



Thought there might be! I expect it's the same as was used in earlier editions . . .


----------



## Crothian

josha said:


> Tell me something:
> What are some of the low-level creatures in the monster books? (some stats would be nice.)




Stats are nice!  I'm not typing them up though, too much like work.  

Silt Runner Rager
Baazrag Whelp
Id Fiend
Jhaker Tracker
Hejkin Sparker

That's half of the level one creatures!


----------



## Crothian

Eric Anondson said:


> Thought there might be! I expect it's the same as was used in earlier editions . . .




Starts

High Sun
Sorrow
Smolder
Festival of the Highest Sun (start of Year)
Scorch
Morrow


----------



## Shroomy

Does the campaign setting cover any areas of Athas beyond the Tyr Region, even briefly?


----------



## Crothian

Shroomy said:


> Does the campaign setting cover any areas of Athas beyond the Tyr Region, even briefly?




Yes, not much but it's there.


----------



## josha

Crothian said:


> Yes, not much but it's there.




Awwww.....


----------



## Aegeri

Crothian said:


> both are hard cover




Oh man have you made my day or what. A while ago there was a FILTHY rumor that the Creature Catalog had been downgraded to a mere paperback. I was so dejected that I literally pouted for the next few days. I am immensely pleased to hear it's hard cover!


----------



## GreenWarlock

Alright, I realize I am showing my Warlock addiction but who cares, one more question about them:

Does it talk about what happened to the Templar warlocks granted power by Kalak? Where they depowered when he died or do they still have their pacts?


----------



## Wik

Aegeri said:


> Oh man have you made my day or what. A while ago there was a FILTHY rumor that the Creature Catalog had been downgraded to a mere paperback. I was so dejected that I literally pouted for the next few days. I am immensely pleased to hear it's hard cover!




Ha.  Personally, I would've loved it were it softcover.  I love my softcover books.  If all wotc books were made paperback, I'd be a happy panda.  

But I imagine that's just one of my weird little personality quirks, and not something shared with most people.


----------



## Dice4Hire

GreenWarlock said:


> Alright, I realize I am showing my Warlock addiction but who cares, one more question about them:
> 
> Does it talk about what happened to the Templar warlocks granted power by Kalak? Where they depowered when he died or do they still have their pacts?




One of hte previews seemed to state that once they got the pact, they were not beholden to the Sorcerer King anymore.

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Character Options)



> Sorcerer-King Pact: You have pledged yourself to the service of a sorcerer-king. In return, your master transformed you into an arcane spellcaster by means of eldritch rituals. What you do with this new power is up to you—the sorcerer-king has no special ability to observe you or to strip you of your power. However, all sorcerer-kings are suspicious and ruthless, so if you defy one, you do so at your own peril.




SO I would think they do not lose the power Kalek gave them

It would be hard to be a heroic Warlock with this pact if it could be stripped.


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard

Wik said:


> Ha.  Personally, I would've loved it were it softcover.  I love my softcover books.  If all wotc books were made paperback, I'd be a happy panda.
> 
> But I imagine that's just one of my weird little personality quirks, and not something shared with most people.




I always loved the feel of the "Complete XXXXXX" books.


----------



## Jack99

GreenWarlock said:


> Alright, I realize I am showing my Warlock addiction but who cares, one more question about them:




Yeah, your name totally didn't give you away on that one...


----------



## GreenWarlock

Jack99 said:


> Yeah, your name totally didn't give you away on that one...




Worse than you know, I first used this name on the wizards boards... Back when complete arcane came out and I wanted to ask questions about the 3.5 warlock from those who already had the book. The new flavor of the 4e warlock along with the option of Con as a casting stat just made it worse.


----------



## pawel

thank you for your reply
Any support for barbarians, druids or wardens?


----------



## mageta80

pawel said:


> a new day and a new question
> 
> Could you explain a little bit predator paragon path?
> 
> Are there any interesting feats for thri kreen?




Pen & Paper Games has the official Predator PP stuff for you


----------



## pawel

mageta80 said:


> Pen & Paper Games has the official Predator PP stuff for you



many thanks. 
may not  the most powerful, but very very climatic


----------



## Peraion Graufalke

Aegeri said:


> Oh man have you made my day or what. A while ago there was a FILTHY rumor that the Creature Catalog had been downgraded to a mere paperback. I was so dejected that I literally pouted for the next few days. I am immensely pleased to hear it's hard cover!




That's how I feel as well. But the "filthy rumor" came directly from the WotC Summer 2010 Catalog.


> *Dark Sun Creature Catalog*
> Date: August 17, 2010
> Format: Trade Paperback
> Trim: 8-1/4” x 10-7/8”
> Pages: 144
> Carton: 24
> Price: $19.95/$23.95 CAN


----------



## Crothian

josha said:


> Awwww.....




More then I though.  Basically each direction for the Tyr area is described.  It's nasty no man's land in most cases but they hint at things well.


----------



## Crothian

pawel said:


> thank you for your reply
> Any support for barbarians, druids or wardens?




Nothing specifically really.  There are some weapon based feats they might like and themes that would go along well with them.


----------



## pawel

Perhaps it makes sense if the book focuses more on themes rather than classes.

Are weapons such as the  gythka exotic or martial?
What about classical exotic weapons such fullblade or execution axe. Are they allowed?


----------



## the Jester

Do they talk at all about reflavoring existing monsters for Dark Sun? In the Dark Sun Encounters adventure, there are a couple of examples of that, and I remember the 3e Oriental Adventures had a bunch of cool suggestions for reflavored stuff.


----------



## Crothian

pawel said:


> Are weapons such as the  gythka exotic or martial?




Superior melee weapon.  



> What about classical exotic weapons such fullblade or execution axe. Are they allowed?




There is no mention for or against such weapon so it's up to the DM.


----------



## Crothian

the Jester said:


> Do they talk at all about reflavoring existing monsters for Dark Sun? In the Dark Sun Encounters adventure, there are a couple of examples of that, and I remember the 3e Oriental Adventures had a bunch of cool suggestions for reflavored stuff.




There is a section on customizing monsters and monster themes.


----------



## Crothian

Also, get in your questions while you can!  Tomorrow I'm off to Gen Con!


----------



## DistractingFlare

Firstly, thank you very much for taking the time to answer all these questions. It's certainly getting me more excited for the books' impending release. I only have one question.

Can you name the epic destinies? In particular, is there one for becoming a Sorcerer-King?

EDIT: Seems to me that there may only be two - Avangion and Dragon. Is this correct?


----------



## Crothian

DistractingFlare said:


> Can you name the epic destinies? In particular, is there one for becoming a Sorcerer-King?




I think I've covered this but here's more detail

Avangion "Arcane power sings in your soul as a blessing from the world you have helped preserve."

Dragon King "You embody the path of defiling and even the mightiest defilers pale before your new, deadly form."

Hoardmaster "Nomads and exiles, salves and free folk - all of them rally to your banner to sweep away the corruption of civilization."

Mind Lord of the Order "An unbalanced min is as destructive and as harmful as the most reckless defiler."

Pyreen "You demand nothing less then the destruction of the sorcerer-kings and a state of eternal peace."


----------



## abyssaldeath

Crothian said:


> Also, get in your questions while you can!  Tomorrow I'm off to Gen Con!




There he goes bragging again.  

*is still jealous*


----------



## DistractingFlare

Thank you kindly for the prompt answer. Enjoy yourself at GenCon!


----------



## FlashbackJon

Crothian said:


> Also, get in your questions while you can!  Tomorrow I'm off to Gen Con!



Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions!

I saw your responses on the Shadowfell (the Gray, right?) and the Feywild, but what about the other Points of Light cosmology bits, is there any love there?

Does Athas receive an Underdark?

Is there mention of the Far Realm?  Is it tied to the crimson sun or the sunwarped aberrants?

Is the Astral Sea inaccessible?  Empty?  Gone?

Is the Elemental Chaos inaccessible?  With the Warlock SK Pact, is there any class/concept that still draws from the Elemental Chaos (as opposed to the Primal Spirits)?

How does the Gray/Shadowfell relate to the above?


----------



## Ratinyourwalls

Crothian said:


> Ya, they are there. Only a level 6 solo, once I read about them I recalled what they were and I thought they would be tougher.




A level 6 solo that isn't a dragon is pretty rare so I'm psyched even though I don't play a lot of Dark Sun. What is a Tembo, and what does he do?


----------



## Mouseferatu

abyssaldeath said:


> There he goes bragging again.
> 
> *is still jealous*




You think _you're_ jealous? Not only am I _not_ going to GenCon for the first time in years, but here he is talking about his Dark Sun books, and I still haven't gotten my _author's copies_.


----------



## Tzarevitch

FlashbackJon said:


> Thanks for taking the time to answer all these questions!
> 
> I saw your responses on the Shadowfell (the Gray, right?) and the Feywild, but what about the other Points of Light cosmology bits, is there any love there?
> 
> Does Athas receive an Underdark?
> 
> Is there mention of the Far Realm?  Is it tied to the crimson sun or the sunwarped aberrants?
> 
> Is the Astral Sea inaccessible?  Empty?  Gone?
> 
> Is the Elemental Chaos inaccessible?  With the Warlock SK Pact, is there any class/concept that still draws from the Elemental Chaos (as opposed to the Primal Spirits)?
> 
> How does the Gray/Shadowfell relate to the above?




There is no "underdark" per se that I've seen. There are underground dwelling creatures like the hejkin though.

There is no mention of the Far Realm that I've seen.

The Astral Sea is there. It is extraordinarily hard to get to, and it is basically abandoned. The astral dominions are ruined and empty except for "terrible abominations." You have to make it across the Gray to even try to reach them.

The Elemental Chaos and the Abyss are there and accessible. There are a lot of elemental vortices on Athas. 

There are elemental themes (elemental priest) and elemental paragon paths (Rainbringer, Smoking Crown Initiate). You don't actually have to be a primal class to take the themes and the paragon paths.

P.S. The maps are spectacular by the way. Particularly the map of Tyr. It may be the best one WotC has ever produced imho. Big time kudos to the authors.


----------



## AntlerDruid

What does Wild Talent Object Projection do?


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer

Tzarevitch said:


> P.S. The maps are spectacular by the way. Particularly the map of Tyr. It may be the best one WotC has ever produced imho. Big time kudos to the authors.



The original DS boxed set's fabric map was full of cool. The original Tyr map was amazing as well, did they do more than just add some polish to the colorization?


----------



## ArcaneSpringboard

Tzarevitch said:


> P.S. The maps are spectacular by the way. Particularly the map of Tyr. It may be the best one WotC has ever produced imho. Big time kudos to the authors.




Which is high praise, considering how awesome the Eberron maps are.


----------



## Tzarevitch

The map of Tyr is basically the same layout but with added shading and effects to look almost 3d. The effect almost looks like the sun is setting behind the city. It almost looks like a google maps photo close to sunset.

The overland map is pretty too, but I was really impressed with the Tyr map. The artwork is also very good overall. A couple of pieces don't really fit Athasian versions of what they are depicting, but not many. The DSMM is very good too. All the SKs have good artwork. The art of the desert eladrin rocks!


----------



## Tzarevitch

Askanipsion said:
			
		

> What does Wild Talent Object Projection do?




I didn't look closely. I'll check when I get home from work


----------



## Tzarevitch

Shroomy said:
			
		

> Does the campaign setting cover any areas of Athas beyond the Tyr Region, even briefly?




They are all mentioned briefly except for Saragar. I haven't seen it anywhere.


----------



## Tzarevitch

Dragonblade said:
			
		

> Anything on Oronis of Kurn (the redeemed sorcerer-king who became an avangion)?
> 
> How about the sorcerer-king who got pulled into Ravenloft (can't recall the name)?




Kurn and Eldaarich are mentioned as near-mythical city-states north of Draj. No more than that. Kalidnay is still ruined. It's mirror twin is in the Gray behind a barrier of mist.      It is still unclear what happened to Kalid-Ma.


----------



## TheDrifter

I am so getting this book, I can't wait to buy it!

Could you please tell me what does the Thri-Kreen Monk feat do?

Thanks a lot!


----------



## Mouseferatu

Mouseferatu said:


> and I still haven't gotten my _author's copies_.




This is no longer accurate. Ari is contented. Carry on. 

(Thanks and kudos to the WotC folks for getting those out to me despite the hassle of planning for GenCon.)


----------



## Scribble

Mouseferatu said:


> This is no longer accurate. Ari is contented. Carry on.
> 
> (Thanks and kudos to the WotC folks for getting those out to me despite the hassle of planning for GenCon.)




Does it live up to the Hype, or should I no longer be Hype[d.]


----------



## Insight

I have the book now, too.  I'm willing to answer any questions people might have (within reason).


----------



## A Passing Maniac

I have a couple of small questions about the epic destinies, then, if you're willing and able to answer. The first is just - what are the prerequisites for the five EDs? And the second - in 2e, the pyreen were a race, not a class or transformation. How does the ED actually present them?


----------



## Insight

A Passing Maniac said:


> I have a couple of small questions about the epic destinies, then, if you're willing and able to answer. The first is just - what are the prerequisites for the five EDs?




21st level for all, obviously:
Avangion: Any arcane class
Dragon King: _arcane defiling_ power
Hordemaster: nothing
Mind Lord of the Order: Any psionic class that uses power points
Pyreen: Any primal class or primal theme



> And the second - in 2e, the pyreen were a race, not a class or transformation. How does the ED actually present them?




You have a kinship to the Pyreen and eventually become one.  It's sorta like maybe you _were_ a Pyreen the entire time and just realized it when you hit 21st level.  Your "immortality" comes as the Sorcerer-Kings fall.


----------



## A Passing Maniac

Awesome. Thanks much!


----------



## TheDrifter

Could you please describe what the Thri-Kreen Monk feat does?

Thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## Knightfall

Crothian said:


> The books just arrived and I'm really digging these covers.  Of course I'm already busy with getting things ready for Gen Con but now I get to read 4e Dark Sun!



My FLGS were selling them starting today. I got both the Campaign Setting book and the Creature Catalog. 

So far, I've only skimmed them but I have to say I love the CC already. The NPCs in the back are great; although, I wish there were more of them.

I wish the main book had less crunch and more fluff, but I wasn't surprised by the book's content ratio. The best part is the poster map! The map of the Tyr Region would have been more than enough but WotC went the extra mile by making the map double-sided with the City of Tyr on the other side! That was a sweet addition!

I wish they'd made the maps in the book bigger, however.

Still, so far I like the books. It isn't as great as the 2e Dark Sun boxed set but the two books together are a close second.


----------



## Knightfall

The maps...


----------



## Tzarevitch

TheDrifter said:


> Could you please describe what the Thri-Kreen Monk feat does?
> 
> Thanks a lot for your help!




It looks like you do 2 extra damage to one of your targets when you use flurry of blows.


----------



## the_amnesiac

Which stats do thri-kreen get a boost to?


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer

Knightfall said:


> The maps...



Awesome, withholding judgement on the regional map until I can see the real thing, but the city map with actually having the cast-shadows . . . brilliant, just brilliant. The kind of detail alone makes it cartographer porn *cough*.


----------



## Shemeska

Who did the map? Vaguely looks like Rob Lazzaretti's work.


----------



## Knightfall

Shemeska said:


> Who did the map? Vaguely looks like Rob Lazzaretti's work.



The DSCS lists the cartographers as Adam Gillespie and Jason A. Engle.


----------



## Knightfall

the_amnesiac said:


> Which stats do thri-kreen get a boost to?



+2 Dexterity, +2 Strength or Wisdom.


----------



## Knightfall

BTW...

Dark Sun 4e hardcovers! I have 'em!


----------



## Mouseferatu

I must say that the hordemaster Epic Destiny has the single coofiest (that's "cool in a goofy sort of way") mechanic in the history of anything, ever.


----------



## giant.robot

One of my FLGSes had the books in today (I have them on pre-order elsewhere) and I flipped through them tonight. They're definitely not as fluffy as the 2E boxed set books, the campaign setting has some fluff but not nearly as much as the Wanderer's Journal in the box set.

The Creature Catalogue on the other hand looked awesome. It had a lot of good monster fluff and I really liked the NPC section in the back. I hope they don't Forgotten Realms this setting and let it languish with just two books. The setting could definitely use an updated Wanderer's Journal or something equivalent to not only give players some backstory but help DMs plan campaigns and encounters that "feel" like Dark Sun.


----------



## AdmundfortGeographer

You know, looking at the regional map, it doesn't look like the scale was changed much. Am I right?

I like that roads to Kalidney and Guistenal are drawn as being half-buried by the desert. Nice touch.


----------



## Maelora

A question for Knightfall (or anyone else with the books) please...

How many new At-Wills in the book? And for which classes? I assume the new builds would incorporate new At-Wills but any for other classes?


----------



## wcpfish

NO attempt to hijack this thread, but this is the place I feel I need to post.  Just a quick note:  Vexing Sands (desert-themed adventure tiles) is out now and available at enworld's very fine store here :Vexing Sands - Escape Velocity Gaming | EN World PDF Store

Featuring seven scenarios which fit any fantasy rpg and fantastic art from Billiam Babble of Inked Adventures fame!  Please check it out!  

Thanks,
William C. Pfaff
President, Escape Velocity Gaming


----------



## Insight

Maelora said:


> A question for Knightfall (or anyone else with the books) please...
> 
> How many new At-Wills in the book? And for which classes? I assume the new builds would incorporate new At-Wills but any for other classes?




Arcane Defiling is _technically_ an at-will.  

All of the _Wild Talents_ are at-wills.

There are several new class options.  Each of them has at least one at-will.

Animist Shaman: Spirit's Wrath (Spirit Power), Spirit Infusion
Arena Fighter: Vicious Offensive
Warlock Sorcerer-King Pact: Hand of Blight
Wild Battlemind: Concussive Spike (1), Wrenching Claw (3)... and others

I don't see any reason why other Fighter or Battlemind builds couldn't take the at-wills listed above.  The Shaman and Warlock ones are specific to the builds in DS.


----------



## vaultdweller

We've already seen in official previews what the names of all the themes:

Athasian minstrel
Dune trader           
Elemental priest
Gladiator
Noble adept
Primal guardian
Templar
Veiled Alliance
Wasteland nomad
Wilder           Hero

Can one of you shed some additional light on those themes that haven't been explicitly previewed?

Specifically, I'm wondering... which themes might have something of interest to a melee weapon fighter, especially one that likes a lot of mobility?  The Wasteland nomad's description sounds like it might hold some promise for me.


----------



## Maelora

Insight said:


> Arcane Defiling is _technically_ an at-will.
> 
> All of the _Wild Talents_ are at-wills.
> 
> There are several new class options. Each of them has at least one at-will.
> 
> I don't see any reason why other Fighter or Battlemind builds couldn't take the at-wills listed above. The Shaman and Warlock ones are specific to the builds in DS.




Thank you. Two more questions, if you wouldn't mind.

1) What does the Animist Shaman's Spirit look like? Is it a tree-thing like the World Spirit?

2) Are any of the new weapons Martial or are they all Superior?


----------



## Insight

vaultdweller said:


> We've already seen in official previews what the names of all the themes:
> 
> Athasian minstrel
> Dune trader
> Elemental priest
> Gladiator
> Noble adept
> Primal guardian
> Templar
> Veiled Alliance
> Wasteland nomad
> Wilder           Hero
> 
> Can one of you shed some additional light on those themes that haven't been explicitly previewed?




Without giving away the farm, I can give you a very basic description of each and their associated paragon paths.

Note 1: all of the attacks for the paragon paths listed below use (primary ability score), like do the theme powers.  I hope this is a trend that will continue.

Note 2: Neither of the psionic themes use Power Points to augment their powers.  Instead, they have encounter and daily powers (which obviously don't have the _augmentable_ keyword).

*Athasian Minstrel*: _Bards_, _rogues_, _warlocks_, and _assassins_ seem the best fit for this sorta sneaky, sorta social theme.  A lot of poison effects.  It has the paragon paths _arms troubadour_ (good for melee _strikers_) and _unwelcome guest_ (more poison stuff, some acid powers).
*Dune Trader*: Some Cha-based skill utilities and generally _leader_ kinda powers (mostly moving people around and granting extra attacks).  It has the paragon paths _caravan master_ (more _leader_ stuff, mostly on the _warlord_ side of the ledger) and _shady dealer_ (more Cha-based skill stuff, more of the _bard_ type _leader_ powers).
*Elemental Priest*: This theme has an awful lot of _conjurations_.  I imagine this fits best with _shamans_, but I could definitely see _controllers_ going for this theme.  Its paragon paths are _rainbringer_ (an excellent _healer_, to be honest), and _smoking crown initiate_ (some _leader_ stuff, but mostly fire attacks).
*Gladiator*: Obviously a melee combatant.  Probably best for _defenders_.  Its paragon paths are _gladiator champion_ (lots of _bloodied_ effects, gains a nice stance at 20; note: _fighters_ can take this PP without the theme) and _jazst dancer_ (more of a _striker_ with light blade sort of powers).
*Noble Adept*: A _psionic_ theme with a _controller_ bent to it.  More effects than big AoE powers.  Its paragon paths are _mind general_ (more _leader_ than _controller_, on the _warlord_ and _bard_ side of things) and _psionic scholar_ (more AoE _controller_ stuff; this might be a neat way to give the _monk_ more of a "psionic" feel than it currently has - if you want that sort of thing).
*Primal Guardian*: Surprisingly, a _primal defender_.  Its paragon paths are the blandly named _guardian of the land_ (which has some nice area powers) and _voice for the ravaged_ (energy based and some healing powers).
*Templar*: While this has obvious implications within the campaign setting, the theme is actually a _leader_, which I found an odd choice, but after looking at the theme, it makes sense.  Quite a bit more healing than I would have expected.  Its paragon paths are _master defiler_ (more defiling goodies) and _praetor legate_ (mostly _controller_-y; available to _sorcerer-pact warlocks_ without the theme).
*Veiled Alliance*: Another _arcane controller_, but definitely one that fits into the setting.  They can spend minor actions to enhance their powers (!).  Its paragon paths are _master preserver_ (lose _arcane defiling_, more _leader_/healing powers, nice healing zone at 20; any _arcane_ class can take this PP without the theme) and _veiled guardian_ (_defender_ sort of powers with marking abilities).
*Wasteland Nomad*: A _primal striker_.  Is more effective when no allies are adjacent.  Its paragon paths are _dune strider_ (some _striker_ effectiveness and movement abilities) and _sand reaver_ (more _striker_ stuff, focused on mainly on being _bloodied_ or attacking _bloodied_ enemies).
*Wilder*: A _psionic striker_.  Some extra riders based on scoring critical hits.  Some _controller_ sort of powers.  Its paragon paths are _resurgent wilder_ (more critical hit stuff, in line with the theme) and _wielder of the way_ (one of its powers is reminiscent of the _soulknife_, but other than that, it's mostly generic _striker_ stuff; note that _battleminds_ can take this PP without the theme).

Whew.


----------



## Insight

Maelora said:


> 1) What does the Animist Shaman's Spirit look like? Is it a tree-thing like the World Spirit?




Like all shaman spirits, it's up to the player (and maybe the DM) to determine what the spirit looks like.  The book doesn't give it a physical description.  "Desert spirit of sand and sun" is the closest the book comes to describing it, and even that is a suggestion.



> 2) Are any of the new weapons Martial or are they all Superior?




There are superior weapons.  In fact, 2/3 of the new weapons are superior.


----------



## vaultdweller

Insight said:


> Like all shaman spirits, it's up to the player (and maybe the DM) to determine what the spirit looks like.  The book doesn't give it a physical description.  "Desert spirit of sand and sun" is the closest the book comes to describing it, and even that is a suggestion.
> 
> 
> 
> There are superior weapons.  In fact, 2/3 of the new weapons are superior.



Do Heavy Blades get much love among these superior weapons?

Interesting new off-hand weapons?

Any new Heavy Thrown options?

{Edit}
Oh, and thanks for answering regarding themes.  Looks like Gladiator (I think the first one previewed) will be the best match for my character.


----------



## Maelora

Insight said:


> There are superior weapons. In fact, 2/3 of the new weapons are superior.




Ugh. You need to spend feats to use the baseline weapons for the setting? Horrible. 

Thanks for answering though, Insight. I appreciate it. 

Can you tell me which DS weapons are not Superior?


----------



## Insight

vaultdweller said:


> Do Heavy Blades get much love among these superior weapons?
> 
> Interesting new off-hand weapons?
> 
> Any new Heavy Thrown options?







Maelora said:


> Ugh. You need to spend feats to use the baseline weapons for the setting? Horrible.
> 
> Thanks for answering though, Insight. I appreciate it.
> 
> Can you tell me which DS weapons are not Superior?




I'll provide a brief rundown on the weapons.

*Simple Melee*
Talid (off-hand)
Widow's Knife (off-hand, light thrown)
Wrist Razors (off-hand)

*Simple Ranged*
Dejada (load free)

*Military Melee, One-Handed*
Alhulak (versatile)
Carrikal (brutal 2)

*Military Melee, Two-Handed*
Trikal (reach)

*Military Ranged*
Chatcha (light thrown)

*Superior Melee, One-Handed*
Gauntlet Axe (defensive, off-hand)
Net (heavy thrown, off-hand)
Puchik (off-hand, high crit)
Singing Stick (defensive, off-hand)
Tortoise Blade (off-hand)
Whip (off-hand, reach)

*Superior Melee, Two-Handed*
Calhulaks (heavy thrown, reach, off-hand) -- this is a double weapon
Dragon Paw (defensive, stout, off-hand) -- this is a double weapon
Gouge (brutal 1)
Gythka (defensive, heavy thrown, off-hand) -- this is a double weapon
Lotulis (defensive, stout, off-hand) -- this is a double weapon

Note 1: There are no Superior Ranged weapons.
Note 2: There are power-swap feat chains for a few of the superior weapons.


----------



## Maelora

Thanks Insight, much obliged. Weapons powers sound like Gladiator articles in the 4E Dragon Annual. I'm still angry Thri-kreen have to pay a feat tax for their racial weapons though! Absurd.  

But thanks for all the info. My book arrives on the 17th.


----------



## Scribble

I CAN HAZ DARK SUN YESTERDAY!!!! 

Went to one of the "premiere" shops in my area and picked them up... So far so awesome!


----------



## Silverblade The Ench

Eric Anondson said:


> The original DS boxed set's fabric map was full of cool. The original Tyr map was amazing as well, did they do more than just add some polish to the colorization?




the ORIGINAL boxed set map is on strong good quality paper
the REVISED boxed set one is on cloth I think? 

*pines for the books in the UK!*


----------



## Insight

Scribble said:


> I CAN HAZ DARK SUN YESTERDAY!!!!
> 
> Went to one of the "premiere" shops in my area and picked them up... So far so awesome!




Congrats!  I likee too.


----------



## pawel

Net (heavy thrown, off-hand)
Whip (off-hand, reach)
*Superior Melee, Two-Handed*
Dragon Paw (defensive, stout, off-hand) -- this is a double weapon
Lotulis (defensive, stout, off-hand) -- this is a double weapon


I have a question what is the difference between Dragon Paw and Lotulis
and between calhulaks and spiked chain? and between whip and net from the earlier books
are there any feats like gladiator weapon proficiency?


----------



## TheDrifter

What weapon groups are the Gauntlet Axe and Singing Stick, and what are their damage die? 1d6? 1d8? Thanks a lot for your help!


----------



## Insight

pawel said:


> I have a question what is the difference between Dragon Paw and Lotulis




The Dragon Paw's off-hand is considered a light blade and so could be used for Rogue attacks.  The Lotulis does more damage.  That's about it.



> and between calhulaks and spiked chain?




Calhulaks are considered double weapons while spiked chains are two handed weapons.  Spiked chains have +3 proficiency bonus versus +2 for calhulaks.  2d4 (spiked chain) versus 1d8 (calhulak).  Calhulaks have a ranged value.



> and between whip and net from the earlier books




Net: No difference
Whip: No difference



> are there any feats like gladiator weapon proficiency?




There are no weapon "group" proficiency feats that I could find.


----------



## Insight

TheDrifter said:


> What weapon groups are the Gauntlet Axe and Singing Stick, and what are their damage die? 1d6? 1d8? Thanks a lot for your help!




Gauntlet Axe: Axe, 1d8
Singing Stick: Mace, 1d6


----------



## pawel

Many thanks for your reply,
is there any weapon with +3 prof and or D12, D10 dmg


----------



## Insight

pawel said:


> Many thanks for your reply,
> is there any weapon with +3 prof and or D12, D10 dmg




The biggest damage die on a +3 proficiency weapon is the Alhulak at 1d8.  The only weapons that have 1d10 are the Trikal and the main hand side of the Lotulis. The Gouge has a 2d6 damage die. Nothing has a d12 damage die.


----------



## pawel

once again thank you for your reply, its look like dragon s paw is +2 d8 or +2 2d4
This is sad because I was looking for something new to change war axe and spiked chain. But as far i known there is nothing special for thri kreen whirler or ranger


----------



## Insight

pawel said:


> once again thank you for your reply, its look like dragon s paw is +2 d8 or +2 2d4
> This is sad because I was looking for something new to change war axe and spiked chain. But as far i known there is nothing special for thri kreen whirler or ranger




Other than merely flavor, the only mechanical reason to change to something like Dragon's Paw is that there is a power-swap feat chain for the Dragon's Paw.

EDIT: Another thing to consider is that even by being in Dark Sun, your spiked chain and waraxe are going to be made from obsidian or monster bones.  That alone may be enough to make it "Dark Sun" to the other players (and yourself!)


----------



## pawel

Insight said:


> Other than merely flavor, the only mechanical reason to change to something like Dragon's Paw is that there is a power-swap feat chain for the Dragon's Paw.
> I hope that some power-swap feats are pretty god.


----------



## bert1000

*Reimagining*

I am a big fan of darksun, but I have all the 2e dark sun books.  I'm curious to see if they have done any interesting revisions/reimagining of elements of the setting?

Now don't get me wrong, I like the reboot to the 1st box set but there is always room for tweaking things and improvement...


----------



## AxiomaticBadger

Could you go into more detail about the Wielder of the Way path?


----------



## filthgrinder

So I picked the books over the weekend from my local store. I really love them.

However, I was kinda let down by the sample adventure as well as the publish adventure. They didn't really seem all that Dark Sun-ish. The sample Eberron adventure, as well as the published Eberron adventure was really cool and got into the campaign setting.

The Dark Sun ones just seem kinda "eh". I think the preview adventure and the free RPG day adventure were better for the campaign feel.

The D&D Encounters Season 2 adventure was better as well.


----------



## Insight

filthgrinder said:


> So I picked the books over the weekend from my local store. I really love them.
> 
> However, I was kinda let down by the sample adventure as well as the publish adventure. They didn't really seem all that Dark Sun-ish. The sample Eberron adventure, as well as the published Eberron adventure was really cool and got into the campaign setting.
> 
> The Dark Sun ones just seem kinda "eh". I think the preview adventure and the free RPG day adventure were better for the campaign feel.
> 
> The D&D Encounters Season 2 adventure was better as well.




I will agree that the adventure at the end of the DSCS is blargtastic to say the least.  I haven't read Seekers of the Ashen Crown, so I can't compare it to Marauders of the Dune Sea (but see my brand new review of the adventure -- see the link in my sig!).

I liked the Free RPG Day adventure and thought it was a fair introduction to Athas.  Didn't play Encounters, so nothing to offer there.


----------



## vaultdweller

I've seen it mentioned that Dark Sun has a revised version of the Inherent Bonuses rules.  What's the deal here?  How does it differ from the rules from DMG2?

Thanks again for any info.


----------



## Insight

vaultdweller said:


> I've seen it mentioned that Dark Sun has a revised version of the Inherent Bonuses rules.  What's the deal here?  How does it differ from the rules from DMG2?
> 
> Thanks again for any info.




Sure.  I just happen to be looking at them in preparation for my DS campaign.  Unfortunately, I don't have the DMG2 in front of me, so a comparison will be unavailable for now (I'll check when I get home).  EDIT -- Looking at DMG2, I don't see an appreciable difference between the systems.  The DSCS has a chart, while the DMG2 just spells out the system in text.  That's about it.

The DSCS "strongly" encourages DMs to use these rules, since it makes things more "Dark Sun".  Also see below*

1st level characters get no bonuses.  At 2nd through 6th levels, the attack and damage bonuses are +1. At 4th through 8th levels, the defense bonuses are +1.  Each of the attack bonuses and defense bonuses go up every 4 or 5 levels from those points.  I'm not going to list the entire table, but that should be enough to give you an idea.

The inherent enhancement bonuses work like any other typed bonuses in 4th ed.  You take the higher bonus of the same type.  So, if your character is 10th level and finds a +3 sword, his attack and damage bonuses for that sword are +3 (your inherent bonus is +2 at that point).  Inherent bonuses cover attacks, damage, and defensive bonuses.

Of interest is additional advice and recommendations on how to alter the treasure parcel system to accomodate these changes.  The DMG2 does not have as much information along these lines.

* Of possible interest, the following appears in the introduction to the Fixed Enhancement Bonus section:



			
				DSCS said:
			
		

> The Dungeon Master is strongly encouraged to adopt the following standard for his or her Dark Sun campaign and *fixed enhancement bonuses will be the organized play standard*.



-- Living Dark Sun?


----------



## Insight

AxiomaticBadger said:


> Could you go into more detail about the Wielder of the Way path?




The _wielder of the way_ is a paragon path intended for the _wilder_ theme, but _battleminds_ without the theme can also take it.

Its "action point" ability is that you regain 1 power point (pretty nice).  Also, at 11th level, you gain 2 power points.  It has an ability to "bind yourself" (during a rest) to a weapon and it deals 1[W] extra damage on your next attack.  Its level 16 ability is kinda meh (+2 to saving throws after using an augmented attack power).

The encounter power is Impose Your Will.  It is a weapon attack and causes your target to grant combat advantage.

The utility power is Rebind the Will.  The next melee weapon attack you make dazes any creature it hits.

The daily power is Subjugate the Will.  Another weapon attack.  This one dominates (save ends), so it's pretty nice.


----------



## vaultdweller

Thanks.  DMG2 gave attack bonuses at 2/7/12/17/22/27 and defense bonuses at 4/9/14/19/24/29, so it sounds like Dark Sun is the same.

Two other question about it though, because I'm so incredibly impatient I just don't want to wait while Amazon sends me my book:

Do their recommendations differ from DMG2 on how to alter the parcel breakdown when using inherent bonuses?  DMG2 recommended removing the highest and lowest item from each level of play.

Do they have any recommendation on whether weapon properties (crit dice and other properties and powers) should increase to match the inherent bonus?  For example, would a +1 Magic Longsword do 2d6 damage on a crit when you're at level 10?  Would a +1 Battle Harness give a +2 to initiative at level 10?  DMG2 was silent on this matter, as their inherent bonus system seemed to assume it would be used only when there are _no_ magic items, and only alternate rewards (boons, etc).


----------



## Insight

vaultdweller said:


> Thanks.  DMG2 gave attack bonuses at 2/7/12/17/22/27 and defense bonuses at 4/9/14/19/24/29, so it sounds like Dark Sun is the same.
> 
> Two other question about it though, because I'm so incredibly impatient I just don't want to wait while Amazon sends me my book:
> 
> Do their recommendations differ from DMG2 on how to alter the parcel breakdown when using inherent bonuses?  DMG2 recommended removing the highest and lowest item from each level of play.




The basic recommendations are the same.  DSCS goes into more detail about reward strategy and offers alternatives better suited to Dark Sun.



> Do they have any recommendation on whether weapon properties (crit dice and other properties and powers) should increase to match the inherent bonus?  For example, would a +1 Magic Longsword do 2d6 damage on a crit when you're at level 10?  Would a +1 Battle Harness give a +2 to initiative at level 10?  DMG2 was silent on this matter, as their inherent bonus system seemed to assume it would be used only when there are _no_ magic items, and only alternate rewards (boons, etc).




The DSCS does mention still giving out magic items.  You would still get properties, daily powers, and so forth.  The fixed enhancement bonus rules only apply to things with enhancement bonuses.  If you got a piece of armor with +2 enhancement to AC and also had a daily power, and your fixed enhancement was already +2 or higher, you could still use the armor's daily power.  Nothing in the DSCS says any different.


----------



## pawel

could you give details of feat for thri kreen ranger ?
is there anything interesting in power swap feats for gythka?


----------



## Insight

pawel said:


> could you give details of feat for thri kreen ranger ?
> is there anything interesting in power swap feats for gythka?




*Hunting Thri-Kreen*: When an adjacent enemy takes damage from your _hunter's quarry_, another adjacent enemy takes 2/3/4 damage.
** This seems best suited for a two-weapon or beast master ranger. ***

The _gythka_ power swap feats are fairly controller-y.  The encounter attack power is multi-attack (one attack with each end of the gythka).  The daily slides the target 3 squares and knocks it prone.  Additionally, the power gives you an immediate interrupt if the target tries to stand.  Pretty cool, actually.


----------



## malcolm_n

An interesting note, and I'm not sure if it's been brought up (sorry, I already read my 16 page thread for the day)...  Under vanquished peoples (a sidebar of peoples of Athas), it lists kobold, deva, gnome, ogre, orc, and troll as races.  kobolds, devas, gnomes and orcs all have racial options in the phbs and mm's.  Trolls and ogres, however, do not.  Does anybody else find the inclusion of these as interesting?

It could just be that dm's are encouraged not to use these monsters, but the rest of the sidebar talks about player interaction with DM permission, not DMs using them.  Anybody familiar with 2e DS who can tell if it's just telling us because it mattered back then?


----------



## Peraion Graufalke

malcolm_n said:


> Anybody familiar with 2e DS who can tell if it's just telling us because it mattered back then?




With the exception of the deva, those races had the "exterminated in the past" label in the 2e box IIRC. I believe they added the deva to that list because of their divine background (as in, the gods are dead, so their servants are, too).

I'm not really surprised that lizardfolk aren't included. *cough*Last Sea*cough*


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## pawel

Insight said:


> *Hunting Thri-Kreen*: When an adjacent enemy takes damage from your _hunter's quarry_, another adjacent enemy takes 2/3/4 damage.
> thanks


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## Drowmage

Which stats have the mul? str, con?


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## Insight

Drowmage said:


> Which stats have the mul? str, con?




I don't have the book in front of me right now, but I believe they are Con + Str or Wis.


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## Mentat55

I glanced at my book, and muls are indeed +2 Con, +2 Str or Wis.


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## Thrael

Are there any specific Mul feats? And what's the coolest Gladiator feat?


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## Insight

Thrael said:


> Are there any specific Mul feats?




HEROIC -
Bred for Battle
Humanity's Heir
Invigorating Toughness
Legacy of Stone
Mul's Stamina

PARAGON -
None

EPIC -
Inexhaustible Resources



> And what's the coolest Gladiator feat?




Well, this is just opinion, of course.  _Disrupting shove_ allows you to knock an enemy prone with you hit with _disrupting advance_.  That's pretty cool.


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## Thrael

Thanks! Quite an impressive list of feats, looking forward to Dwarf and Mul feats 

So this is Disrupting Shove from one of the DND XP Chars (Kindrok in http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DNDXP_Characters.pdf). Though personally I probably wouldn't use a feat for such a minor enhancement to an encounter power.


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## Insight

Thrael said:


> Thanks! Quite an impressive list of feats, looking forward to Dwarf and Mul feats
> 
> So this is Disrupting Shove from one of the DND XP Chars (Kindrok in http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/DNDXP_Characters.pdf). Though personally I probably wouldn't use a feat for such a minor enhancement to an encounter power.




Yeah, it's exactly the same.  In fact, the pre-gen has the feat I was talking about.


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## pawel

Is there any support for old races (elf dwarf halfling)?
once again thanks for your reply


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## Crothian

Not a lot but the book does talk about them and their role in the world


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## Mentat55

pawel said:


> Is there any support for old races (elf dwarf halfling)?
> once again thanks for your reply



There is a paragon path for goliaths, as well as a couple of goliath feats.  They are the only previously published race that gets specific crunch support, AFAICT.


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## Dice4Hire

So, let's be honest here. How many FR and E people are wishing their campaign settings had the character options of this book?

Those character themes are really an amazing idea.


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## Insight

Dice4Hire said:


> So, let's be honest here. How many FR and E people are wishing their campaign settings had the character options of this book?
> 
> Those character themes are really an amazing idea.




Apparently, themes are being extended to the rest of "regular" D&D as well.


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## Mouseferatu

Insight said:


> Apparently, themes are being extended to the rest of "regular" D&D as well.




Yeth, it would theme tho.


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## Dice4Hire

Insight said:


> Apparently, themes are being extended to the rest of "regular" D&D as well.




Heroes of Shadow sounds like it will be using the same system. It is a good idea. Kinda like a PP starting at 1st level. SO now we have a special feature for each tier.


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