# Best Sci-Fi television series EVAR!



## Mark (Aug 2, 2003)

The jury is still out on some of those currently running but I'd be inclined to give the nod to _ST: TNG_ (with an obligatory nod to the original) for bringing the Sci-Fi magic back to television.  It seemed to come along after a semi-drought comprised mostly of poor quality shows (though there were a few good ones mixed in there)...


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## KenM (Aug 2, 2003)

Best Sci-fi on TV ever? Babylon 5, hands down. Nothing else comes close.


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## Staffan (Aug 2, 2003)

Babylon 5 for me too. If Firefly hadn't been cancelled, it would probably have displaced B5 - not *one* of the 11 episodes was bad, which is a better track record than B5 had in the first season.


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## tetsujin28 (Aug 2, 2003)

Outer Limits. The original, not the silly thing that's on now. Way better than Twilight Zone, and too often ignored.


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## NiTessine (Aug 2, 2003)

Babylon 5. Nothing else I've seen comes even close.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Aug 2, 2003)

First couple seasons of X-Files.  One of the only monster-of-the-week kind of shows (other than Buffy and Angel, of course) that held my interest.

Never got into B5.  Acting seemed really bad.  Basic cable bad.


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## S'mon (Aug 2, 2003)

B5 had the best plots; certainly Season 4 was great; Season 5 suffered because its story arc had already been used up in season 4.  B5 did suffer from wooden acting by the human characters, Londo & G'kar had fine actors.  STTNG had some very good acting (esp Patrick Stewart), some good plots and some poor ones, but does stand well above the other Trek sequels IMO. 

For basically starting an entire genre though, my vote for greatest TV sf series would go to Star Trek TOS.  Even though I'm more a Blake's 7 man myself.


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## John Crichton (Aug 2, 2003)

With all respect to Star Trek, Next Gen and DS9 I have to give the nod to Farscape.  Main character deaths, great badguys and even better heroes.  The plots were just simply awesome.  Firefly had the potential to be as great as Trek and Farscape, but it wasn't to be I guess.  

Does my bias show?


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Aug 2, 2003)

I really don't think I can choose just one.  For me it would be a toss up between Babylon 5, Farscape, Star Trek: TOS and Star Trek: TNG.


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## jonesy (Aug 2, 2003)

Stargate SG-1 or Babylon 5. There's no way I could say the other is better than the other.


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## KenM (Aug 2, 2003)

Just a B5 note, JMS was forced to end some major stoylines at end of season 4, because they did not know until last minute that TNT was going to pick it up for its 5th season. 
I heard that the end of shadow war/ battle agianst Clarke was suposted to be one big battle above Earth, JMS was forced to change things.


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## Umbran (Aug 2, 2003)

This is not Highlander, where there can be only one.  

For greatest effect on the genre, I'd go with ST:TOS and ST:TNG, one for really starting it, the other for giving it a modern rebirth.  

I'm one of those who doesn't generally pick single favorite shows.  There are many good ones, and the thing that I like best at any given moment depends largely on my mood.  TNG, Farscape, Firefly, DS9, B5, Early X-Files, the first two seasons of Andromeda - all good stuff.


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## Wormwood (Aug 2, 2003)

Doctor Who (Tom Baker/Peter Davidson years)...

The most fun I'd ever had watching televison.


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## GreyShadow (Aug 2, 2003)

Thunderbirds!


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## Dagger75 (Aug 2, 2003)

I got to go with Babylon 5.  Sure ST: TNG brought sci-fi back to the mainstream, B5 was the peak during the mid 1990's.

 Whats funny, just last night at work we were talking about Sci Fi shows.  Anyone else remember Space Rangers?


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## Silver Moon (Aug 2, 2003)

My pick would be Star Trek: Deep Space Nine.    A lot of Star Trek fans didn't care for it, but I thought the characters were all very well developed and well acted, and the characters all evolved as the series went on.   The episodic element during the final two seasons was also great.  It also had the best supporting cast of any of the Trek series, heck there was even an episode in the final season that revolved almost entirely around two supporting characters, with only a few brief cameos from the ones in the title credits.


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## Holy Bovine (Aug 2, 2003)

Babylon 5.  hands down.  Period.  End of story.  

What made it the best sci-fi show was the story arc.  Most episodes were self contained and could be watched on their own but the overall effect when seen together and all the little developments that are occuring in the background to the main stroy arc is simply awesome.  Season 5 was a dissappointment but there were still some great moments in it.  Compare that to the dissappoinment seasons 5-7 were of TNG  

Thanks gawd B5 is finally coming out on DVD - now I can retire all of those VHS tapes


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 2, 2003)

In order...

Farscape - this show had it all, plot, story, villians, heros, and twist.  How I miss it but rumor from Virginia Hey at Gencon is that something is in the air!

Babylon 5 - This show was a true space opera, the only issues was it could not find a home and support.  

Star Trek: TOS - wonderful stories (don't hurt me) but was it sci-fi or western?  Stories were powerful and it hinted at a lot of things in the future (only one with vision).  

Stargate SG1 - still up and coming, good actting and stories but nothing really new.  

Dr. Who - story and plot over special effects.  It was the show that showed you do not need bells and whistles to be good sci-fi.  Should be higher on the list but have not seen every one!


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## Dimenhydrinate (Aug 2, 2003)

Farscape for me. Before that one I didn't really go out of my way to watch any sci-fi on the tube. That show made me not want to miss an episode.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 2, 2003)

Another vote for Farscape here.

Oh, and an unrelated(sort of) question about Firefly. I caught a few episodes(loved it), but how long did it run in the USA? From what I'm told, its running very strong in Britain....


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## Phoenix8008 (Aug 2, 2003)

I gotta vote for Stargate as the best Sci-fi show. Great stories, solid acting by a wonderful cast, and great big story arcs that just keep building on one another to expand and flesh out the SG1 universe to it's wonderful perfection!

Farscape was indeed excellent. My second place vote goes here. Another show with a wonderful cast who did great acting to tell some great stories. If I had been watching this show from the begining instead of just the last season or two, it would surely be right up there beside Stargate for me.

Third place: Star Trek TNG was good, and it came at a good time, but the stories were hit and miss and there wasn't any real growth or change in the universe until late in the series. Felt kinda stagnant sometimes.

I would also give X-files an honorable mention here. It should rank pretty high also, but I never could see enough of it to get the whole storyline in my head together. It had to be good though since it went for like 8 or 9 seasons? I hope that Stargate SG-1 can equal or surpass this record myself.


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## Jamdin (Aug 2, 2003)

I cannot and will not pick just one best science fiction series since there are just too many good ones as opposed to the bad ones.


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## Tsyr (Aug 2, 2003)

Stargate SG-1 or ST:TNG... And echo the "If only Firefly had done better" thought.

A strong contender for me was Earth: Final Conflict, but I know it got a lukewarm reception from a lot of people...


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 2, 2003)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Stargate SG-1 or ST:TNG... And echo the "If only Firefly had done better" thought.
> 
> A strong contender for me was Earth: Final Conflict, but I know it got a lukewarm reception from a lot of people... *




Earth: Final Conflict started strong but was not constant, cast changes, story arc, vision changes hurt that show.  


X-Files and Buffy should be in my list but I saw them as more paranormal/mystery shows and not sci-fi.  I know it is a fine line but I had to draw it.


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## LightPhoenix (Aug 2, 2003)

Tie between Farscape and B5 for me.  I think the edge goes to B5, just because I like JMS as a person a lot.


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## Viking Bastard (Aug 2, 2003)

To choose is hard, especially because my choices keep changing.

A year ago I'd have said Farscape. Before that I'd have chosen
B5. Few months ago I went through a Stargate craze. Now? 
Dunno. Kinda been burned out for a while sci-fi wise. Can't for
the life of me find myself interested in any show that much I'd 
like to call the best one.

The one that has had the most effect on me throughout the 
years is though without doubt The X-Files. No show of any genre
has influenced me as much as that show.


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## Alaric_Prympax (Aug 2, 2003)

Very tough choice but as much of a Star Trek fan that I am I'd have to say B5 was the best.


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## s/LaSH (Aug 2, 2003)

I'm saying B5, judging from my gut response. The episode at the end of Season 4 where they attack Earth still stirs something in me... no other TV show has done that to me.

Honourable mention: Deep Space 9 and Farscape. DS9 because it hits a couple of the same buttons B5 did, especially towards the end, and was generally a great show. Farscape, even though they've only shown season 1 here in New Zealand so far, because it's so very different - and the music is just awesome.

Final Conflict, while cool, doesn't quite make the grade because of the aforementioned muddying of the feel of the show. Still, it is cool to have a show where only one character makes it from start to finish (well, almost - byebye, Sandoval. I shall wave, like this).

And I won't list any anime because, well, I'm sure someone would object and I can't integrate it into my SF thought processes too well.


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## jonesy (Aug 2, 2003)

Damn, forgot to mention this little gem:
Space: Above and Beyond.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Aug 2, 2003)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *X-Files and Buffy should be in my list but I saw them as more paranormal/mystery shows and not sci-fi.  I know it is a fine line but I had to draw it.   *




Good point.  If not X-Files then, make mine DS9.  Everything that Enterprise seems like it's trying to be and failing at.


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## Staffan (Aug 3, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> *I heard that the end of shadow war/ battle agianst Clarke was suposted to be one big battle above Earth, JMS was forced to change things. *



As I understand it from his archived Usenet posts and the episode guides at Lurker's Guide, season 4 was supposed to end with Sheridan's capture. I'm not sure if Intersections in Real Time (the interrogation episode) was supposed to be the last episode of season 4 or the first of season 5.



			
				Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> *Oh, and an unrelated(sort of) question about Firefly. I caught a few episodes(loved it), but how long did it run in the USA? From what I'm told, its running very strong in Britain....*



Ten episodes, plus a double-length pilot episode that was aired last. Three more episodes were made but not aired (one including Saffron again), but they're going to be on the DVD set coming in December.


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## Starman (Aug 3, 2003)

Star Trek:ToS without a doubt. It had the three greatest characters in sci-fi TV: Kirk, Spock, and Bones.

Starman


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## Tsyr (Aug 3, 2003)

Space: Above and Beyond rocked. Plain and simple. I only wish it had run longer.


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## mojo1701 (Aug 3, 2003)

TNG #1 in my book, man (although I wasn't a fan of Star Trek or sci-fi in general at the time - I was like 8 at the time).

Honorable mentions also go to DS9 (loved that Dominion War), Voyager (certain plots and characters, but barely made it in my book), the X-Files (pre-8th season), the X-Files spinoff, the Lone Gunmen (I love those conspiracy-type shows, and the guys were great). I didn't get into much else, and I only got basic cable here, so I don't get the reruns of the other shows (just Voyager every weekday at 4 p.m. and the X-Files every saturday on NBC).


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## paulewaug (Aug 3, 2003)

Red Dwarf! hehe!

I like B5 a lot.

Stargate has done a terrific job of keeping their seasons going and I enjot the show a lot.

STS9 is the only ST show I care for anymore.  Old trek is amusing and I appreciate their ahead of the times quality they had.  And although orgially I loved ST:TNG I have snice become very disillusioned with it.  To repetative IMHO always getting into trouble/checking anomalies and pulling some trick out of thier @$$ at the end to save the day with little regard to their own continuity.  I give them a lot of credit for the Nemesis and the ending.

I loved Farscape and I think that the season before the last just got too wierd and killed the show, although the final season was mostly fantastic, very sad to see it go.

Space Above and Beyond was a good show and I was also very sad to see it end.


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## Darrin Drader (Aug 3, 2003)

Absolutely Babylon5. There is no argument.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 3, 2003)

Does MST3K count? 

Demiurge out.


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## Ghostwind (Aug 3, 2003)

I don't think you can single any one series out as the best ever. Too many of them have had major impacts on television culture through the years.

The original Outer Limits probably did more for setting the pace for consistent quality writing than any other series of that time. It also served as the launch vehicle for many star's careers (the same can also be said for Twilight Zone). Just take a look at the star roster on some of those old episodes when you get the opportunity: Martin Sheen, Leonard Nimoy, and Robert Culp all come immediately to mind.

Star Trek: TOS brought the space opera theme to television and broke many barriers that were never done before (such as the first interracial kiss to be aired on TV). It also showed how character driven episodes were feasible and yet still retain the fantasy element.

Dr. Who also bridged the gap for consistent writing and showed a side of science fiction that only the British was willing to tackle; humor. I still catch Who episodes whenever I am somewhere with cable and they are airing. Gotta love Tom Baker...

In many ways Babylon 5 picked up the reins that had been dropped by the 70's and 80's sci-fi shows (so many stinkers) and showed how multi-episodic story arcs were not only feasible but that the fans literally ate them up. Some of the best sci-fi writing of the period goes to Babylon 5 (with nods to Star Trek: TNG and Star Trek: DS9).

Farscape certainly had the potential to become the best series of the new century had it been allowed to live. The key component that is vital for a series' success was there; the writing but the powers above didn't see it fit to continue to series despite fan outcry.

So, call this list my favorite of the various time periods where sci-fi was making important contributions.


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## Corinth (Aug 3, 2003)

_Babylon 5_, no contest.


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## Shadowdancer (Aug 3, 2003)

The Time Tunnel.  

"The X-Files" is probably the only multi-season scifi show I can say with certainty that I saw every episode. It gets my vote.

"Firefly" -- Every time I think of what could have been, I get mad at Fox again.   If I had a rocket launcher . . .


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## Welverin (Aug 3, 2003)

I vote for ST DS9.



			
				Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Space: Above and Beyond rocked. Plain and simple. I only wish it had run longer. *




That's Fox for ya. I can't for the life of me understand why they insist on having shows on at 7:00pm during the NFL season. They get preempted half the time and I'm firmly convinced this is a major reason, if not the *the* reason, that Space: AaB and Futurama died. How can a show build and keep an audience if it's not on consistently?


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## John Crichton (Aug 3, 2003)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *A strong contender for me was Earth: Final Conflict, but I know it got a lukewarm reception from a lot of people... *



I loved the first season of E:FC.  The show really lost alot when they killed off Boone at the end of the first season.  The new main lead (Liam?) was good but the show was never the same to me.  I think I stopped watching after season.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Aug 3, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *That's Fox for ya. I can't for the life of me understand why they insist on having shows on at 7:00pm during the NFL season. They get preempted half the time and I'm firmly convinced this is a major reason, if not the the reason, that Space: AaB and Futurama died. How can a show build and keep an audience if it's not on consistently? *




I can't speak for Space: AaB, but as for Futurama there are a couple reasons for it.  This is just stuff I have read over the past year or so.  Futurama was supposed to be placed after the Simpsons at 8:30 on Sundays.  Which it was for a fairly short time.  Then it was shuttled over to Tuesday evenings.  Matt Groening fought them to get it back on Sunday nights.  This is when it landed in the horrid 7PM time slot.  So the whole time/day jump thing hurt it and then ending up in the 7PM Sunday slot, is the final nail.  

Oh and on topic.  I can not beleive I forgot to put Stargate: SG-1 on my list.


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## John Crichton (Aug 3, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> *Another vote for Farscape here.
> 
> Oh, and an unrelated(sort of) question about Firefly. I caught a few episodes(loved it), but how long did it run in the USA? From what I'm told, its running very strong in Britain.... *



Only 13 eps (or something like that) were made and the US saw 10 of them.  It ran until the first week of December 2002.  The 3 unaired eps are on the DVD due out in December.


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## John Crichton (Aug 3, 2003)

paulewaug said:
			
		

> *I loved Farscape and I think that the season before the last just got too wierd and killed the show, although the final season was mostly fantastic, very sad to see it go.*



Season 3 was too weird?  It may have been odd but it was the best out of all the seasons.  It wrapped up things all the way back from Season One and sorta hit the reset button.  If anything hurt Farscape it was SciFi not running any reruns during the times when the show was in-between seasons and bits of time for production.  Also, what hurt it was the crummy time slot along with the shifting schedule.  And the 4th season took a bit too long to really get going.  It floundered around for a while before getting to the good stuff around episode 12.

The production team/SciFi didn't help themselves by having huge (something like 9 month) gaps right in the middle of seasons for new eps.  SciFi should have been doing reruns during that time.  That's how I caught up before season 2 started.  It's not like any of their other programming was blowing people away.

Damn.  I ranted again.

To digress - Umbran said it right when there doesn't have to be just the one.  I know my tastes change with the seasons and I'm hoping something will come along that gets my mind off the shows of old.  All the shows mentioned I think were great in there own way.  There were some low points but overall they have served as a foundation for whatever is coming next, whatever that may be...


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## Welverin (Aug 3, 2003)

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> *IThis is just stuff I have read over the past year or so.  Futurama was supposed to be placed after the Simpsons at 8:30 on Sundays.  Which it was for a fairly short time.*




Yep, I remember that as well. It always did belong right next to the Simpsons, and I recall when it was on at 8:30 TV Guide called it the best two hours of television (or maybe just SUnday nights), with the Simpsons, Futurama, and then the X-files. Only think I can think of at the moment from recent history not sports related would be Buffy-Angel.


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## Silver Moon (Aug 3, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *I vote for ST DS9. *



Thank you.   When I posted the 1st "DS9" vote I half expected to be run out of town.  It is nice to know I am not alone.   I imagine that once TNT begins to air DS9 on a daily basis, and new viewers will get a chance to see it (or old viewers see it in a new context), that its popularity will increase.


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## Tsyr (Aug 3, 2003)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> *
> Thank you.   When I posted the 1st "DS9" vote I half expected to be run out of town.  It is nice to know I am not alone.   I imagine that once TNT begins to air DS9 on a daily basis, and new viewers will get a chance to see it (or old viewers see it in a new context), that its popularity will increase. *




For what it's worth, DS9 is my second favorite Star Trek, comming in not too far behind TNG. I think DS9 got off to a rocky start at first, not knowing what it really wanted to be, but after the first season or two, it got much better.


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## Holy Bovine (Aug 3, 2003)

While I wouldn't consider myself a huge DS9 fan I will say that they had many, many more excellent epsidoes than Voyager or Enterprise have had.  Of the Trek series' however I would have to rank it third behind TOS and TNG (in that order - what can I say I loooove Kirk, Scotty, Bones and Spock!)


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## s/LaSH (Aug 3, 2003)

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> *
> Oh and on topic.  I can not beleive I forgot to put Stargate: SG-1 on my list. *




Me too... add that to my honourable mentions list.

It's got a very well-developed universe... when you can have a conversation where only half the words are English, you know they've done something right, eh, tau'ri? Plus it's cool and stuff. And I've always been impressed with the effects...


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## Kilmore (Aug 4, 2003)

Man, no one's here representing Battlestar Galactica?  You folks aren't right.


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## Shadowdancer (Aug 4, 2003)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> *Season 3 was too weird?  It may have been odd but it was the best out of all the seasons.  It wrapped up things all the way back from Season One and sorta hit the reset button.  If anything hurt Farscape it was SciFi not running any reruns during the times when the show was in-between seasons and bits of time for production.  Also, what hurt it was the crummy time slot along with the shifting schedule.  And the 4th season took a bit too long to really get going.  It floundered around for a while before getting to the good stuff around episode 12.
> 
> The production team/SciFi didn't help themselves by having huge (something like 9 month) gaps right in the middle of seasons for new eps.  SciFi should have been doing reruns during that time.  That's how I caught up before season 2 started.  It's not like any of their other programming was blowing people away.
> 
> ...




Your rant nailed exactly why I stopped watching Farscape. I loved the show, I just never knew when it was on after season 2. I'd get out of the habit of watching it for a few months, then it would start again, and I'd start watching, but would have already missed 2-3 episodes and I'd be lost. And they didn't show reruns often enough to ever get caught up, so I got frustrated and stopped watching. Hell, they show it in reruns now more often than they ever did when it was still in productions.  

Why, oh, why do they let idiots run television networks? 

If I had a rocket launcher . . .


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## Welverin (Aug 4, 2003)

Shadowdancer said:
			
		

> *
> If I had a rocket launcher . . . *




You'd be playing GTA?


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 4, 2003)

Is there place for a honorable mention of a internationally probably unknown TV series (if we can call it a series, since it had only 7 episodes) ?

In the mit 60s (to the late 60s), the only (i think) German Science Fiction / Space Opera was created and shown on TV: "Raumpatrouille Orion" ("Space Patrol Orion"). 
It was presented in black and white (unlike Startrek TOS , that aired in the USA approximately at the same time), and featured the stories around the fast spacecruiser (schneller Raumkreuzer) Orion under the command of Cliff Allister McLane and his crew (Tamara Jaggelowsk as Security Officer from the Galactical Security Service, Hasso Sigbjörnsen as Engineer, Mario de Monti as Arms Officer, Helga Lagrelle as Communications and Space Control Officer and Atan Shubashi as Astrogation Officer), approximately in the 30 or 31. century. 
The crew fought against the alien invaders called Frogs (because of the noises the produced - the crew first wanted to call them "Frösche" (the german expression), but decided they wanted a more alien feel to the name, hence frogs  ), the first alien race ever to make contact with humans. 

Even if it is a bit antiquated today (even more than TOS.), the stories were creative and especially new at that time. The characters (including recurring characters besides the main cast) were interesting, and it is still fun and entertaining to see it today.
(Like every Sci FI series, they used common goods and material to create "alien" or "futuristic" sets and designs - if you ever happen to see it, be prepared to see an iron somehow attached to a console on the Orion`s bridge  )

Unfortunately, it was never shown in english speaking countries (and thus never had an english version)...

more infos: 
http://www.orionspace.de/ww/de/pub/english.htm

Well, this aside, I call the following series my favorites: 
Babylon 5, Deep Space Nine, Farscape, closely followed by The Next Generation, TOS. 

Mustrum Ridcully


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## Keia (Aug 4, 2003)

My best sf would be, in order:

Firefly (Some of the best stories and what potential)

Farscape (Groundbreaking - still love 'little yellow bolts of light')

ST: DS9 (from worf's entrance forward)

ST: TNG (2nd season forward)

That said, here's hoping the the best scifi show for me has yet to be seen! 

Keia


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## John Crichton (Aug 4, 2003)

Shadowdancer said:
			
		

> *Your rant nailed exactly why I stopped watching Farscape. I loved the show, I just never knew when it was on after season 2. I'd get out of the habit of watching it for a few months, then it would start again, and I'd start watching, but would have already missed 2-3 episodes and I'd be lost. And they didn't show reruns often enough to ever get caught up, so I got frustrated and stopped watching. Hell, they show it in reruns now more often than they ever did when it was still in productions.  *



That is what annoys me so much - NOW they choose to show tons of reruns.  *sigh*  They practically refused to rerun anything from seasons 3 & 4 when they really needed to get people caught up.  Heck, I wanted a few reruns to catch things a second time.

It was almost like they wanted it to fail.  Same with Firefly.


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## Assenpfeffer (Aug 4, 2003)

Honorable Mentions, in no particular order:  

_The Twilight Zone_, which is an enduring classic, with good reason.

_The Outer Limits_, which also had some really great episodes.  More science-fictiony than Twilight Zone.

_Dr. Who_.  Not what I'd call an entirely serious show, but I loved it growing up.  Perhaps the greatest camp series in the history of TV.

_Star Trek:  The Next Generation_.  A show that had some very good moments despite its many problems, mostly uninteresting characters (the exceptions being Data and Worf,) and total lack of vision.  It was generally well-acted but poorly-plotted, with far, far too many deus ex machina Geordi/Wesley technobabble plot resolutions.  It's also a very important show for TV in general, since it helped develop much of the system of syndication that made it possible for shows like Hercules, Xena and Highlander to get aired.  (The blame for Renegade and Kung Fu: The Legend Continues can also be laid at TNG's feet.)  Nevertheless, as science fiction, its quality is comparable to _Alf_.  Its constant smarmy, pipe-to-the-head moralizing set my teeth on edge.  (TOS was just as much a morality play, mind - but it usually worked as adventure and as drama better than TNG did, so it wasn't as ham-fisted, and you cared about the characters.)

_Highlander_:  It's sci-fi if you accept the Planet Zeist storyline (There Is No Planet Zeist.)    It did have a few good moments, despite the show's formulaic nature and the producers' unwillingness to break away from the limited concept.  The show works better if you see it as a continuity wholly separate from the movies.

My top Five:

5)  _Farscape_.  Somewhat overrated, IMO, though it has its moments, and a very good developing storyline.  Unusual for a sci-fi show in that it seems not to care too much about universe-building.  It also, as far as I'm concerned, gave me little reason whatever to give a damn about the characters, except for Crichton, and he's a whiner.

4)  _Star Trek:  Deep Space 9_.  The best of the pseudo-Treks, and a good show in its own right.  It at least had the good sense to _try_ to shake up the flat, stagnant Trek universe.  "Trials and Tribble-ations" salvages much of modern Trek.

3)  _Stargate SG-1_.  There's a been a backlash against it, I think, beacuse it's perceived as the show that bumped Farscape off Sci-Fi's lineup, but I consider it by far the superior show.  I personally stayed away from it for years beacuse MacGyver's in it.  SG-1 does an amazing job of developing and enlarging its core concept and of building a coherent and interesting universe around it.  I'm convinced that it would be far more popular if it's hadn't spent its first several season on Showtime where nobody could watch it.  The stories make sense, the pysics is consistent with itself, and the stories and acting are rock-solid.  The best sci-fi on first-run TV right now, hands-down.

2)  _Babylon 5_.  Yes, the acting is weak at times, but not everywhere - and in a few spots, B5's acting blows away _anything_ in any Trek.  But it's _science fiction_, not TV sci-fi, much closer to what we get out of the literary genre than out of television.  The overplot is epic.  B5 is the only TV show with scenes that give me chills (G'Kar's speech as he's being kicked out the the B5 Council at Londo's insistence... brrr.)

1)  _Star Trek._  There _is_ only one, and it ended in 1969.  Everything since has been inferior pseudo-Trek.

I exclude my favorite genre show (Buffy) beacuse it isn't sci-fi.  Shows that aren't on the list include Firefly (because I never saw it,) Space:  Above and Beyond (a good show I don't think was on long enough to be a _great_ show,)  Battlestar Galactica (for similar reasons,) Andromeda, Lost in Space, Enterprise, Voyager and the X-Files (beacuse they're garbage.)


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 4, 2003)

Assenpfeffer said:
			
		

> *Honorable Mentions, in no particular order:
> 
> 3)  Stargate SG-1.  There's a been a backlash against it, I think, beacuse it's perceived as the show that bumped Farscape off Sci-Fi's lineup, but I consider it by far the superior show.
> *




I don't think so and ratings seem to go with it, the shows that should feel the lash are Tremors and Scare Tactics (so happy not to see them in any list...yet).  SG-1 was already established and helped Farscape.


----------



## Assenpfeffer (Aug 4, 2003)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *I don't think so and ratings seem to go with it, the shows that should feel the lash are Tremors and Scare Tactics (so happy not to see them in any list...yet).  SG-1 was already established and helped Farscape.   *




Possibly it seems that way to me because of the huge outpouring of angst in the wake of Farscape's cancellation, some of which bashed SG-1 as the show that got Farscape's favorable timeslot.  Certainly Sci-Fi seems to see SG-1 ratings as better than Farscape's.

I watched Scare Tactics once and found it vaugely amusing.  Not enough to go out of my way to watch it again.  Tremors - no thanks.


----------



## Green Knight (Aug 4, 2003)

I like Tremors. Not great sci-fi, but still fun. Though these last couple of episodes in which Burt was nowhere to be seen weren't that great. Which is understandable, since Burt Gummer's the best thing about it. 



> Farscape - this show had it all, plot, story, villians, heros, and twist. How I miss it but rumor from Virginia Hey at Gencon is that something is in the air!




Really?!? What'd she say? And if you're getting my hopes up for nothing, I will TRACK YOU DOWN and give you a solid kick in the crotch!   

Anyway, my top 3 would have to go to Babylon 5, Farscape, and Stargate SG-1. I've gotten really sick of Star Trek, lately, especially with their ridiculous world (Warp engines are the solution to hunger, disease, and war?  ), so I'm quickly becoming disenchanted with it. 

But getting back to the top 3, if things go well, then Stargate SG-1 may end up topping B5 and Farscape. Why? In Babylon 5's case, because B5 had a really weak last season. In Farscape's case, because it got cancelled before it could finish up its story arc. Stargate, however, is guaranteed an 8th season (Of course, Farscape was "guaranteed" a 5th season, and look what happened  ). So if they're able to tie up all their loose ends from now to then, and can finish off this story with Anubis in a grand fasion, along with setting up Atlantis, then it'd definitely blow B5 and Farscape out of the water. 

IMO, of course.


----------



## Kesh (Aug 4, 2003)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> *Whats funny, just last night at work we were talking about Sci Fi shows.  Anyone else remember Space Rangers? *




I thought I was the only person who saw that... thing. Especially by how fast it went off the air. 

Saw the pilot episode, and gave up. There was just too much wrong with it for the plot arc to be worth following.

_Babylon 5_ was the opposite. I saw the pilot movie and was hooked from the start. Sure, the makeup was bad and the acting a bit stiff... but the story grabbed me.


----------



## Shadowdancer (Aug 4, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You'd be playing GTA? *




No, some son-of-a-bitch would pay.

It's a lyric from an old Bruce Cockburn song. The link


----------



## rafrost (Aug 5, 2003)

B5.  The only choice.  Grabbed me from the start to the finish.


----------



## madriel (Aug 5, 2003)

Babylon 5 is my favourite TV series, period.  It had its rocky moments due to network stupidity and I hated the guy playing Sinclair, but when it was good it was breathtaking.  JMS is one of the very few TV writers who knew how to blend humour and tragedy.

I love Dr. Who and Red Dwarf too.


----------



## mojo1701 (Aug 5, 2003)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> Warp engines are the solution to hunger, disease, and war?




1. War: meant as in human vs. human. Now that humans saw that they were no longer alone, and that a third world war (always the case, isn't it?) almost destroyed them (most major cities destroyed, 600 million dead), they decided to join together and join the other space-faring civilizations.

2. Now that hunger was because of money, and money also caused greed, they decided to abolish money. In essence, Earth becomes a communism (the good one, where *everyone* prospers, not like that fake Soviet communism...)

3. Disease: With all the other advanced species (most likely the Vulcans), they decided to help out the humans out (or, that's my guess.)


----------



## Maxwell's Demon (Aug 5, 2003)

Although it had its problems from time to time, B5 is still my favorite.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 5, 2003)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> *Really?!? What'd she say? And if you're getting my hopes up for nothing, I will TRACK YOU DOWN and give you a solid kick in the crotch!   *




The Henson family re-took control and are looking to produce at least a mini-series.  Detail would be forthcoming.


----------



## WisdomLikeSilence (Aug 5, 2003)

Firefly.

The only Sci-Fi show I've ever *really* loved.

>sigh<

Still in mourning.....

-WLS

(I can enjoy TNG and DS9, and I hear fabulous things about Farscape, but Firefly was something special.)


----------



## Turlogh (Aug 6, 2003)

The best Sci Fi TV:
Star Trek
Dr. Who
Space Above & Beyond
Farscape

Honourable mentions:
Firefly- had tons of potential
Babylon 5 Crusade- while I never like B5 (found it incredibly boring) I really liked this series, so of course it gets cancelled.


----------



## theRogueRooster (Aug 6, 2003)

WisdomLikeSilence said:
			
		

> *Firefly.
> 
> The only Sci-Fi show I've ever *really* loved.
> 
> ...




Amen.

Firefly wasn't just a great sci-fi show, it was a great show regardless of genre.  Best 13 episodes on tv, EVER. 

At least we have a potential big screen movie to look forward to.

-tRR


----------



## WisdomLikeSilence (Aug 6, 2003)

theRogueRooster said:
			
		

> *
> Firefly wasn't just a great sci-fi show, it was a great show regardless of genre.  Best 13 episodes on tv, EVER.
> 
> At least we have a potential big screen movie to look forward to.
> *




And the DVD release in December.  I'm pretty psyched about the unaired episodes.  Plus, DVD sales should be good, which will only increase the chances of future Firefly offerings.

(I can still hope, can't I?)

-WLS


----------



## dagger (Aug 6, 2003)

I noticed today that they have a box set of DVD's of the 1st 3 season of Bab 5.....


----------



## theRogueRooster (Aug 6, 2003)

WisdomLikeSilence said:
			
		

> *
> 
> And the DVD release in December.  I'm pretty psyched about the unaired episodes.  Plus, DVD sales should be good, which will only increase the chances of future Firefly offerings.
> 
> ...




I've seen the three unaired episodes and I can truthfully say that the DVD will be worth its price for those episodes alone.  Truly excellent stuff.

-tRR


----------



## Wolf72 (Aug 7, 2003)

Staffan said:
			
		

> *Babylon 5 for me too. If Firefly hadn't been cancelled, it would probably have displaced B5 - not one of the 11 episodes was bad, which is a better track record than B5 had in the first season. *




agreed!

I also like Stargate SG-1 too ... I don't get to see it often though, since I only have basic cable.


----------



## Klaatu B. Nikto (Aug 7, 2003)

By far my fave sci fi series would be Farscape. I've converted several over to Farscape after a few episodes. Loved all those pop culture references that none of Crichton's fellow crewmembers understood. Likewise, they acted like a real 'family', often at each other's throats. Gotta love the homage to the esteemed Charles Jones. 'What's up, D'argo?'

Some of Bab 5 I liked as well, especially the Shadow War stuff tho it did seem rather rushed, for reasons others have said. I did hope that Crusade would've lasted longer tho but typically, it got canned after a season. 

I'm not quite sure if this fits into the sci fi category but Brimstone was pretty good tho in typical Fox fashion, they canned it after a season. Likewise the Bruce Campbell western 'The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.' got canned after a season.


----------



## Welverin (Aug 7, 2003)

Klaatu B. Nikto said:
			
		

> *I'm not quite sure if this fits into the sci fi category but Brimstone was pretty good tho in typical Fox fashion, they canned it after a season. Likewise the Bruce Campbell western 'The Adventures of Brisco County, Jr.' got canned after a season. *




Notice how most of the 'it got cancel before it had a chance to get going' shows were on Fox?

In retrospect it's simply amazing The X-files lasted as long as it did.


----------



## Psychotic Dreamer (Aug 7, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Notice how most of the 'it got cancel before it had a chance to get going' shows were on Fox?
> 
> In retrospect it's simply amazing The X-files lasted as long as it did. *





Well if I'm not mistaken X-Files set the bar, raitings wise, for what they expect from genre shows.  Which of course is totally unfair since X-Files was an anomaly.  Hell even the X-Files didn't start with great ratings.  It wasn't until what, the third season, before it started getting the amazing ratings?


----------



## WizarDru (Aug 7, 2003)

I couldn't choose a favorite, BEST SHOW EVAR any more than I could tell you which one of my children I love more.  Different shows have different appeals.


Star Trek (ST:OS) - The first and arguably the best.  It didn't define the genre (plenty of shows had already done some of what Trek had done), but it showed how good the genre could be.  Instead of the 'monster of the week' format of Outer Limits, for example, it might feature an episode that was reminiscent of a Shakespeare play, or a comment on the nature of man's inhumanity to man.  

ST:TNG - At first merely accepted by SciFi fans like a man in a desert accepts a glass of cold water, ST:TNG eventually threw off the shackles of bad writing and formulaic episodes to occasionally produce some brilliant episodes, and a lot of average ones.  With a strong cast and a sizable budget, TNG had lots of highs and lows (it's dependence on a static environment, no inter-cast conflict or long term character growth being some of it's weaknesses).  But this is made up for with episodes like "Darmok", "Brothers" or the one where Picard lives an entire life on an alien world.

Dr. Who - Not just a kids show, and the longest running sci-fi show EVAR.  Quality varied wildly from incarnation to incarnation and season to season...but it featured excellent actors (from the RSC and stage as often as not), good humor and often very inventive plots.  Not just the early Tom Baker seasons, but the whole run had amazing episodes.  Go watch "The Pyramids of Mars" or "Talons of Weng Chiang" and remember what fun scifi is like.

Babylon 5 - If I had to choose just one show, this would probably be it.  A testament to one man's desire to see a vision realized, come hell or high water.  A show that holds together much better when seen in order, like the chapters of a book.  More internally consistent than most shows could even dream of, B5 had a beginning, middle and end, and did it on a budget.  While inconsistent (particularly during the first season), few shows have ever had the intensity of seasons 2-4 or carried the philosophical or emotional impact of their meta-stories.

Blake's 7 - A counterpoint to everything Dr. Who was.  Not heroes, anti-heroes.  Not comedy, black comedy and gallows humor.  Working on a budget comparable with most BBC productions, B7 took risks within the genre, and had the best ending of almost any series, ever.  We were left with our jaws on the floor when it was over.

Alien Nation - Odd that I haven't seen anyone toss out the mad propz to this highly underrated series.  At first just appearing to be a poor follow-on to a cheap sf gimmick movie, it turned out to be an extremely well written show about the integration of an alien species with mankind, and the cultural conflicts that came with them.  One reason for the show's success: R. O'Bannon...who's next series would be a little known show called:

Farscape - A show that took genre conventions and rotated them.  With amazing visuals and quirky characters, Farscape knew it's audience had seen all the classic plots, like 'the body switch episode' or 'unstuck in time episode', and instead took them in radically different directions.  (Favorite example: "You're trying to trick me...well I ain't buying it!'  "Trick you?  No, I'm just trying to drive you insane."  Farscape's second take on the 'mind control/you've come home plot).  Unpredictable and fast-paced, Farscape always seem to knowingly wink at the audience and say..."watch what we do, now".


There are others, of course, but these are the biggies.


----------



## Apok (Aug 7, 2003)

Babylon 5, hands down.  I was also into DS9 for a while and would love to see that series from beginning to end (I was a sporradic watcher at best).  In my opinion, DS9 is the best of the Trek spin-off's.  Couldn't stand Voyager and I never got into Enterprise.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Aug 7, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *Alien Nation - Odd that I haven't seen anyone toss out the mad propz to this highly underrated series.  At first just appearing to be a poor follow-on to a cheap sf gimmick movie, it turned out to be an extremely well written show about the integration of an alien species with mankind, and the cultural conflicts that came with them.*




While not forgotten I and a good show I keep seeing AN as a cop show with a sci-fi twist.  

How about *V*?


----------



## Klaatu B. Nikto (Aug 7, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Notice how most of the 'it got cancel before it had a chance to get going' shows were on Fox?
> *




At least the writers of Brisco County tied up the plot lines (the major ones at least) before finishing the first season. Sadly, there wasn't a Christmas episode or one of those 'retrospective' episodes.

It may have been that Fox just counted on its heavyweights: X-Files, the Simpsons, Married With Children and that teen angst drama set in the FAR future, Bevery Hills 90210.


----------



## Mallus (Aug 7, 2003)

*Seeing as...*

...Dru's post covered most of what I wanted to say, and probably in a clearer and more concise manner, I'll just add a few remarks to his list. 

Re: *Star Trek (OS)*  --It made SF on TV viable as adult programming, as opposed to a kids' only genre . It was the most well-rounded show of the list {excepting possbily Dr. Who}. While its not original, per se, it took decades worth of SF themes and addressed practically all of them in a 3 year TV run. It was at times an action show, a space opera {well, as much of one as its budget would allow}, Cold War parable, political allegory, drama, comedy, psuedo Greek tragedy, etc. It satisfied the requirements of drama: to wit, it explored the human condition; the requirements of "serious" SF: both examining/opining on the impact of technology and changing cultural mores and using SF tropes to to recast time-honored dramatic inquires into said human condition; and finally, it satisfied the requirements of "pop" SF; big spaceships, cool devices, Mongols in Space, planet-eating Doomsday Machines.

Admittedly, it did all of this with varying degrees of success, but at least it tried. Plus, it sported a cast with real chemistry, which is priceless in an ensemble show. ... And that's why its best.

Re: *Dr. Who:* --Drew nailed it, its fun. Even with its BBC-sized budgets it created a sense of wonder. Part of the appeal of SF has always been that wonder; that voyage into the exotic, which is couched in scientific terms, but doesn't require a whit of actual science --which Dr. Who gleefully had none of. Reverse the polarity of the neutron flow my *ss...

What it did have was wit and charm, occationally even powerful drama --I'm thinking of the shot of Adric's Mathematics Badge right now with a tear in my eye. And it evolved; from a children's show into something else entirely.

Re: *Blake's Seven:* --This was my first exposure to SF set outside the dominant authority system --that didn't feature an idealized, romanticed "rebellion". Its the anti-Star Trek and anti-Star Wars. Here the Federation are a bunch of bland, media-savvy fascists who employ lithe dominatrixes as Space Commanders, where the sentient computer is a annoying little box that everyone despises, where the "noble" main character disappears after season one leaving the cold-hearted, logical, all-too-nastily-human embezzler in charge. Blake's is a bit of a minor revoution in SF TV; as Dru said, meanspirited , bleak, without much nice to say about the human condition. Like Farscape after it, it traded heavily on inverting SF conventions. But its more than that; its stucture allowed for real conflict between the characters, and conflict=drama... 

Re: *Star Trek (THG):*  --Its an invaluabe step in the evolution on televised SF drama, but also something of a misstep. Often it was like an office drama set on a starship  --a friend of mine called it L.A Law in space {didn't Corbin Bernson guest-star as a Q...}. It tried to be so adult, so much like any other contemporary adult drama {even during plots when the crew faced the extinction of of the human race} that they took a lot of the fun out of. Their writing staff wasn't up to the level of sophistication they were shooting for. Too often TNG was a clunky fusion of SF and conventional dramatic modes {SF drama tends toward the operatic, the "cosmic" while contemporary drama tends toward the neurotic microcosm...}. I so missed Kirk's solilliquising, his emphatic internally-rhyming ultimatums. 

That said, it did have stand-out episodes, like "Darmok", "The Inner Light", and "Measure of the Man. It did what its predeccesor did, addressed SF themes, covered a lot of subgenres, even managed to innovate from time to time, such as in "Inner Light", which used a SF device to explore the soul of single character --instead of making broad comments on human nature, and "Darmok", which fused the SF classic "Arena" with a lesson on literary criticism.

I just wish the show wasn't so bloodless.

Re: *B5:*  --I loved it from the start. Its the greatest space opera ever filmed. It embodies the SF experience for me; grand ideas, grand adventure, a fully-realized "other" world to visit, as well as the downside, frequently shoddy technical execution. JMS's speeches soar, his mundane dialogue often makes me wince. If JMS would have had some more help, like his very own D.C. Fontana or Robert Hewitt-Wofle, I'm pretty sure B5 would stand alone. As is, it was one hell of ahievement, there was and still is, nothing else like it.

Re: *Farscape:*  --What's not to like about a well-done postmodern pulp sci-fi show that resembles nothing so much as Buck Rogers blended together with Pulp Fiction --complete with frequent untranslated swearing? A great SF show that doesn't give a damn about science at all; it merrily concerns itself with all the props and cool gadegtry; spaceships, yellow-light spitting ray-guns, currently requisite black leather fetish/flight-wear. A slam-bang adventure with a shocking respect for its characters --despite how it humiliates them-- and for psychological realism {no matter how perverse the action got, the show rarely lost its emotional moorings}. For my money, Farscape isn't just one of the greatest SF shows EVAR, its brilliant commentary on SF as a genre, an exploaration of the different appeals of SF {I could have swallowed my toungue when D'Argo admitted he "just liked blowing things up" with his spaceship}, a rare example of metafiction that also satisfies on the gut level of character and plot... blah, blah, blah. But, its unconcerned with many of the traditional functions of SF narratives, so it can't be the best.

Re: *DS9:*  --Why isn't this on your list Dru?! 

If you agree w/me that STG was an unwieldly attempt at raising the level of dramatic sophistication for SF TV, then keep agreeing that DS9 was a smashing success in doing just that. Nothing in DS9 is new; in terms of innovative SF ideas, they were fresh out. No brave new worlds to explore, so the writers focused on the characters, on ongoing conflicts ripe with dramatic payoff, on the fundemental elements of dramatic narrative. Its SF drama done right; its functions equally well as soap-opera and space opera. Plus, it had the polish, the consistently good dialogue, the more evenly-distributed acting talent that was missing from B5. DS9 became just as much an 'SF novel for television' as B5 was, and in an odd way, the strengths of DS9 had little to do with the SF bits. So it really can't be the best SF show ever, but I'd argue its pretty close to the best TV drama EVAR...

I'll stop now. "A few remarks"... I make myself laugh sometimes.


----------



## WizarDru (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Seeing as...*



			
				Mallus said:
			
		

> *Re: DS9:  --Why isn't this on your list Dru?! *




That's a darn fine question.  Truthfully?  It depends.  I consider DS9 a near miss.  I thought it had moments that were nothing short of brilliance and quality-wise, I think it was better, on average, than ST:TNG.  But somewhere along the line, I got Star Trek fatigue.  That may not be DS9's fault, but I grew tired of the reliance on technobabble engineering saving the day and the many other tropes of DS9.  I enjoyed many aspects of the show, such as the character of Garrick, who immediately raised the quality of any episode he was in, for example.  

I thought that the first two seasons were an interesting allegory and that they were really balancing on a wire.  And then they sort of fell off it, for me.  I dropped out for a while, and then when I returned, I learn of some changes that just seemed so silly that I wasn't interested (ex: Bashir's really a super-genius, and he's just been pretending to be dumb all this time).  I took the announcement of the addition of Worf to the cast as a 'jumping the shark', regardless of whether it was or not.


As for SG-1, I didn't list that because I simply haven't seen enough of it to make a judgement.  The episodes I've seen are great, but I just haven't had time to watch it.

I didn't mention Jeremiah, even though I think it's a great show, mostly because it's very uneven...and judging from JMS recent comments, MGM is probably a large part of that problem.


----------



## Mallus (Aug 7, 2003)

*Re: Re: Seeing as...*



			
				WizarDru said:
			
		

> *I learn of some changes that just seemed so silly that I wasn't interested (ex: Bashir's really a super-genius, and he's just been pretending to be dumb all this time).*



I don't think Bashir played dumb so much as he was honestly naive... 

I liked Bashir being revealed as an ubermensch --sure, the way they introduced it a few years in was silly, but I liked how it added another layer to Bashir and O'Brien's relationship; they weren't just an odd couple, they were the Superman and the Everyman. I liked the rappore the characters had, even more so after it survived that kind of mythologizing. Those two archetypes are especially valuable to SF; one provides the vicarious release of a power-fantasy --I so want to throw darts like Julian-- and the the other is easily to indentify with, and comforting in its suggestion that through decentness and tenacity any crisis can be overcome...

Unlike TNG, DS9 works well in both modes: as "conventional" drama exploring two guys friendship over the years, and in the more superheated SF mode: where the characters symbolic function is explored through the use of a standard SF device.

Plus, I like that the whole genetic superman thing--barring the one episode-- wasn't used as a political allegory. Old-school SF would have used Julien's status as genetic "other" to comment on descrimination in the larger context of society. SF being used for social commentary is old hat, but SF used to better and more deeply investigate/describe interpersonal relationships; that's new, and fascinating, at least to me.

{Farscape did this too, in a way. It took the sloperatic excesses of pulp space adventure and put it in the service of a love story. In essence, the Crais/Scorpious/Scarran plot arcs were foils for the John and Aeryn stuff, their emotional turmoil underscored by vengeful Space Commanders w/big nasty spaceships, fetish bogeymen seeking Ultimate Weapons, and a galaxy generally going to hell in a handbasket}. 

And don't get me started on the whole Major Kira/surrogate mother storyline. Let's just say there's no way it should have worked, and it did...

Ah well, to each his own. I think DS9 it did some pretty radical things, not just to the franchise --which I couldn't care less about-- but to SF in general. And sometimes in fairly subtle ways. Maybe you'll watch the rest of DS9 sometime and find something of value in it. I know I'll enjoy watching the entirety of B5, once I stop procrastinating and buy the DVD's.

[Hmmm, apparently I needed more work today....]


----------



## takyris (Aug 7, 2003)

My list, in no particular order:

*For the writing*: Babylon 5

*For willingness to do anything to anyone*: Farscape

*For managing to believably put Space Opera in a modern-day setting*: Stargate: SG-1

*For combining SF and Westerns in fabulous and funny ways, if only they'd been on longer*: Brisco County, Jr. and Firefly

*Wish I could have seen 'em before they left:* Alien Nation and Space:Above and Beyond, both of which had some neat eps in the SciFi reruns I've seen.


----------



## Shadowdancer (Aug 7, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Alien Nation - Odd that I haven't seen anyone toss out the mad propz to this highly underrated series.  At first just appearing to be a poor follow-on to a cheap sf gimmick movie, it turned out to be an extremely well written show about the integration of an alien species with mankind, and the cultural conflicts that came with them. [/B]




"Alien Nation" a cheap sf gimmick movie?  

I suggest you go watch it again. It's an excellent movie. Sure, the ending was a little preachy, but still, all in all it was excellent.

I never got to see enough episodes of the series to pass judgement -- I can count on one hand the episodes I saw, and still have digits left over. But what I saw was very good.


----------



## Assenpfeffer (Aug 8, 2003)

*Re: Seeing as...*



			
				Mallus said:
			
		

> * Part of the appeal of SF has always been that wonder; that voyage into the exotic... *




Truth.  That's a big reason why I like B5 and SG1 as much as I do - they both have it.


----------



## Assenpfeffer (Aug 8, 2003)

Shadowdancer said:
			
		

> *
> 
> "Alien Nation" a cheap sf gimmick movie?
> 
> I suggest you go watch it again. It's an excellent movie. Sure, the ending was a little preachy, but still, all in all it was excellent.*




It _was_ a cheap gimmick sf movie - one that worked far, far better than it had any right to, thanks to the very real chemistry between James Caan and Mandy Patinkin.

Which is also the reason I didn't take a shine to the TV show.


----------



## S'mon (Aug 8, 2003)

*'low budget' BBC sf*

BBC sf of the 70s & 80s actually had budgets comparable to US sf (pre Star Trek Next Generation), however the BBC is notably inefficient at spending its (license-payers') money, hence the cheap & shoddy look, despite usually excellent (for sf) acting, & often excellent plots..  Red Dwarf seasons 3+ were broadcast on BBC but independently made; despite *tiny* budgets compared to BBC in house sf it actually looked a lot better.
Nowadays the BBC doesn't make sf, but is still pretty inefficient I believe.


----------



## Dagger75 (Aug 8, 2003)

I feel like expanding on my list a little.

 B5 is still best Sci Fi show IMHO.  I liked the 5 year story arc.  Sure it had its flaws but which show didn't. My favorite episode was the end of season 4, when they thought they wouldn't get a season 5.

 Firefly- Had this show stayed on the air longer I think it would be on the top of my list.  I hope there is a layer of hell reserved for the people who cancelled this show. 

 Stargate SG1- I really like this show as well. I like the way the casts interacts with each other.

 ST: TNG- Since I never really watched the orginal series till after this came out I thought this was coolest thing since sliced bread.

 Now for Farscape

  How to put this gently, I really didn't like Farscape.  I liked the first 2 seasons but it was getting hookey pretty fast.  Maybe it was the erratic scheduling cause it felt like I always missed an episode everytime I watched it.


----------



## mojo1701 (Aug 9, 2003)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> *ST: TNG- Since I never really watched the orginal series till after this came out I thought this was coolest thing since sliced bread.*




I dunno. Sliced bread is _pretty_ cool.


----------



## Staffan (Aug 9, 2003)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> *Firefly- Had this show stayed on the air longer I think it would be on the top of my list.  I hope there is a layer of hell reserved for the people who cancelled this show. *



A _special_ level of hell.


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## Welverin (Aug 9, 2003)

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> *Well if I'm not mistaken X-Files set the bar, raitings wise, for what they expect from genre shows.  Which of course is totally unfair since X-Files was an anomaly.  Hell even the X-Files didn't start with great ratings.  It wasn't until what, the third season, before it started getting the amazing ratings? *




That's what I was hinting at, they seemd to judge the newer shows on the success of an established show while ignoring it's own rocky start, thus proving their own stupidity.


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## Suldulin (Aug 10, 2003)

Babylon 5 and Farscape here


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## Sir Osis of Liver (Aug 10, 2003)

Farscape is number one all the way!

G vs, E gets props a s number two in my book though.


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## Larry Fitz (Aug 11, 2003)

What about _Johnny Socko and His Flying Robot_? Or the classic _*Gigantor*_.

Seriously, while B5 did stand on the shoulders of giants (and not necessarily robotic ones) it had everything good drama needs, and the story came first, so it gets my nod...

_edit: spelling and special effects_


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## Ariddrake (Aug 11, 2003)

Hands down the greatest sci-fi series is...

LEXX

Stanly tweedle could kick kirk's @&$$!


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## mojo1701 (Aug 11, 2003)

Ariddrake said:
			
		

> *Hands down the greatest sci-fi series is...
> 
> LEXX
> 
> Stanly tweedle could kick kirk's @&$$! *




I never did get that show. Maybe it was just me...





...it usually is.


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## WizarDru (Aug 11, 2003)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> *
> I never did get that show. Maybe it was just me...
> 
> ...it usually is. *




No, it's not just you.  Ariddrake may have liked it, but he was not exactly in the majority.  


As for 'G vs. E'...it was a great show that missed being brilliant by a teeny tiny bit, I think.  Too bad it got done dirt so often by so many...and I'm not talking fans or reviewers, I'm talking network programmers, executive producers and studio representatives.


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## Ariddrake (Aug 12, 2003)

I just said LEXX because I have just watched the entire 2nd season on dvd and it's still in my head. I didn't watch it on TV my friend said it was off so I checked it out. The timing for the episodes were kind of skewed and there is some wierd bondage thing I think the writers were trying to work out.

Best Sci fi series - Can it be a cartoon?


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## Mark (Aug 12, 2003)

Ariddrake said:
			
		

> *Best Sci fi series - Can it be a cartoon? *




Yup.


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## Morbidity (Aug 12, 2003)

It can only be Red Dwarf. Okay I know there are only a few supporters here … but I’m sure we can make all these Babylon 5 and Farscape groupies see the light.


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## WizarDru (Aug 12, 2003)

Morbidity said:
			
		

> *It can only be Red Dwarf. Okay I know there are only a few supporters here … but I’m sure we can make all these Babylon 5 and Farscape groupies see the light.  *




I think you'll find plenty of supporters for Red Dwarf here...I'm just not sure I'd mark it on my Top 5.  Top 10, most likely.


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## Upper_Krust (Aug 12, 2003)

Hi all! 



			
				Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *In order...
> 
> Farscape - this show had it all, plot, story, villians, heros, and twist.  How I miss it but rumor from Virginia Hey at Gencon is that something is in the air!
> 
> ...




Agree with all the above but also add:

Blakes Seven

Space Above & Beyond

Red Dwarf


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## Ariddrake (Aug 12, 2003)

Hands down.. Robotech, a story of a young boy coming to grip with his transformable jet fighter! Go Ben Dixon!!!!!


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## Black Omega (Aug 12, 2003)

Ariddrake said:
			
		

> *I just said LEXX because I have just watched the entire 2nd season on dvd and it's still in my head. I didn't watch it on TV my friend said it was off so I checked it out. The timing for the episodes were kind of skewed and there is some wierd bondage thing I think the writers were trying to work out.
> *




Personally, I thought Lexx was great fun most of the time.  Very weird and quirky.  Also very hit and miss, with some truly bad episodes, especially in the final season.  On the other hand, Stanley H. Tweedle was a great character and very well acted.  One of my favorite sci-fi characters.


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## trancejeremy (Aug 13, 2003)

Battlestar Galactica

Buck Rogers

Kolchak: The Night Stalker 

Friday the 13th: The Series

And I'm tempted to say Quark, but that only lasted a handful of episodes (though in many ways, Red Dwarf seems a rip off of it...), but Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy.  They did a pretty good job of capturing the feel of the books, and the actors who played Arthur Dent and Ford Prefect were perfectly cast.


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## Turgenev (Aug 13, 2003)

For me it has to be *Doctor Who* with my preference being the 2nd and 3rd Doctors (Patrick Troughton and Jon Pertwee) with honourable mention to Tom Baker (4th) & Peter Davison (5th). But then, I've always preferred British SF over American SF (I'm funny that way ).

Honourable mentions go to (not in any order):
* Blake's 7
* Sapphire & Steel
* The Avengers (some of the colour Emma Peel episodes certainly have a SF touch to them )
* The Tomorrow People
* Gatchaman (Japanese cartoon, a.k.a. G-Force/Battle of the Planets)
* Star Trek: TOS
* Red Dwarf
* Kolchak: The Night Stalker 
* Babylon 5
* Macross (Japanese cartoon, a.k.a the first story arc of Robotech)
* Outer Limits (original series)
* Space 1999
* Stargate SG1

I'm sure I'm forgetting about a half of dozen or more obscure SF shows (like Jason of Star Command). 

Cheers,
Tim

_Edited for spelling_


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## Villano (Aug 14, 2003)

Not including cartoons and sticking only stuff that aired in the US, I'd say that *Twilight Zone* would probabl be considered the best of all time.

*Star Trek* (the original) would also have to get a nod even though I prefer *DS9*.  And *B5* comes very, very close, but the 1st and last seasons were so weak, I can't quite bring myself to say it was the best.  

I know that some people will bring up the argument that for every "social commentary" episode of Trek, there was a "Space Hippy" one that people conveniently forget and the B5 is better.  Truthfully, I'd rather watch B5, but Trek really was ahead of its time.

Another of the "greatest ever" would have to be *Kolchak, The Night Stalker*.   I don't know if this is really the first real, non-anthology, horror tv series, but it certainly is the most influencial. 

But, when all is said and done, my favorite would have to be *The Adventures Of Brisco County, Jr.* (with Kolchak coming in a very close 2nd).  I'm not arguing that it's the best of all time, just the best to me.


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## physics_ninja (Aug 14, 2003)

Ariddrake said:
			
		

> *
> Best Sci fi series - Can it be a cartoon? *




Yes it can.  Two that come to mind are Star Trek the Animated Series and X-Men Evolution.  (Although I wonder if the comic book sub-genre can be called science fiction.  Oh, wait a minute -- The Flash, Wonder Woman, The Hulk, Superman, Batman, Mantis, Mutant X -- Yeah, those could all be science fiction when they wanted to be.)

My personal all time favorite is Doctor Who.  I own every episode that is available and several that aren't.  I started watching it in 1984 and recording it in 1985.  I still have (and watch) those tapes.

Star Trek (TNG, Voyage, DS9) each have episodes that I wish I had:  Inner Light (TNG), Fear (Voyager), In the Pale Moonlight (DS9).

I have about 2/3 of B5.  The story arc makes it great to sit through and watch all of it at once.  (Which I have occasion to do twice a year due to my job.)

Stargate 1 is just a great hour of entertain television.  Even my sister watches it and she doesn't have a sci-fi bone in her body.

X-Files was at its best when it didn't take itself seriously.  And at its worst when it simply refused to tie up the storyline.


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## WizarDru (Aug 14, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> *Another of the "greatest ever" would have to be Kolchak, The Night Stalker.   I don't know if this is really the first real, non-anthology, horror tv series, but it certainly is the most influencial. *




I didn't include Kolchak only because I was focusing on Science Fiction, and I view Kolchak as horror/fantasy...but I consider it one of the best series to have ever graced the air waves.  Chris Carter pointed to it as a direct influence for the X-files, for example.  Kolchak was a very dangerous program when it was new...the original 'Night Stalker' movie was, at the time, the highest rated movie on television.  The series was funny, gritty and downright scary, at times.

And really, how many TV shows can you think of that had a Rakshasa, succubi, headless motorcyclist, Coyote Trickster or fashion-model witch coven as villians?  All anchored firmly in place by Darren McGavin's stellar performance.  Awesome stuff, really.


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## Psion (Aug 14, 2003)

Deposit 2 cents...

(chink... chink...)

Okay guys, TNG was sometimes interesting, but I whenver I watch old episodes of ST:TOS, a certain intelligence shines through that still charms me even today.

_Babylon 5_ and _Farscape_ each carved their own niches, pushing the space sci-fi show in new directions.

And, of course, who could forget _Red Dwarf_...


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## Lost and Damned 2 (Aug 14, 2003)

oww, where to start

my favourites in no real order

B5 - great stories, with some of the most REALISTIC ship designs ever.

Stargate SG1 - great how they took myths and legends and worked them into a Sci-Fi setting.

Doctor Who - you just have to love Tom Baker's Doctor, esp his line to a Dalek in Gensis of the Daleks "if your the most powerful race in the universe, i'd like to see you follow me in here" (or something like that) as he ducks into an air vent.

Blake's seven - quirky and they killed off all the major characters at the end IIRC, no other series has done that TMK.

Lexx - just plain weird and wacky, and fun to watch too.

Red Dwarf - series one to four was fab, the rest was just getting plain bad.

Transformers the original series - god i loved watching that cartoon in the mornings on wack-a-day....

Robotech - watched this on cable, great epic series and story arcs.

strangely though i've never really liked Star Trek though, too repetive IMBHO.


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## wiccanWARRIOR (Aug 15, 2003)

Seriously,

Star Trek: Deep Space Nine gets a major vote from me as well, for many reasons mentioned above.  I also remember being very amused at the writing contrast between DS9 and Voyager, while they were airing simultaneously.  On DS9, Sisko and crew would be changing the very course of the Alpha Quadrant's destiny, with major-budget kick-ass space battles aboard the Defiant, or exploring intense, moving character stories between the conflicted, dynamic cast.  Meanwhile on Voyager, Janeway would at best be rehashing some old Star Trek plot about space clouds or fighting off...giant bacteria?  No comparison.

I'm glad several other people remember Blake's Seven as well.  Avon was one of the greatest anti-heroes ever written in SciFi history, with a wit and style that I've blatantly copied into several villains personalities.  And Servalan was just too wicked!  I would count the minutes until the end of each episode, wondering how long they could hold off her inevitable "surprise" appearance as the *actual* enemy to be outwitted in the plot.  (Though how she could have sneaked around so much in those drag-queen's wet-dream costumes they made here wear all the time is beyond me.)

Less seriously,

Did I actually see Space: 1999 on someone's list?    I do have more fond memories of it than it probably deserves.  (I still have my metal Dinkey Toys Eagle transport model up on my shelf, I now notice.  And I'm sure I haven't thrown out that Moonbase: Alpha technical manual that I eagerly ordered from Starlog many decades ago.)

OMG!  I just had a repressed flashback.  The reason I love the D&D Shifter prestige class so much is because of the alien chick that the wandering moonbase picked up in the second (?) season!  (Well, that and Odo, of course).  What was her name?  Maia?  All I remember is that she made shapechanging super-cool, and achieved it on screen without a penny of the BBC's limited special effects budget going to waste.  All they did was do this super-fast zoom-in shot into one of her eyeballs, and when they pulled back again, presto!  It was the eyeball of a hawk, or wolf, or some weird alien tentacled thingy.  Way to go, production department!  I suppose this alone should get it an honorable mention.


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## Asmo (Aug 15, 2003)

Star Trek: Voyager.

It was the first Sci-Fi show that I ever saw and also put me into this weird world of alien races and heroes that saves the day.

You should never abandon your first love.

Asmo


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## Asmo (Aug 15, 2003)

double post


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## Mog Elffoe (Aug 18, 2003)

Thundarr the Barbarian is the 'Best Sci-Fi television series EVAR.'
It's a fact.


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## Turgenev (Aug 22, 2003)

Mog Elffoe said:
			
		

> *Thundarr the Barbarian is the 'Best Sci-Fi television series EVAR.'
> It's a fact. *




Any series (cartoon or otherwise) that gets Jack "King" Kirby to do the conceptual art/designs gets two thumbs up from me.

Cheers,
Tim


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## Turgenev (Aug 22, 2003)

*Starhunter 2300*

I've just started watching the second season of Starhunter (also known as Starhunter 2300) and I like what I've seen so far (which is only two episodes). The series has a real Blake's 7 feel to it with a dash of Cowboy Bebop (that's because the main characters are bounty hunters working within our Solar System).

I could never get into the first season of Starhunter, but after two episodes of the second season, I think I'm hooked. Here's a website dedicated to the 2nd season of Starhunter:

http://cliverobertson.free.fr/welcome.htm

On a side note, I'm surprised no one has mention the Tripods series! (just kidding) 

Cheers,
Tim


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## Villano (Aug 22, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I didn't include Kolchak only because I was focusing on Science Fiction, and I view Kolchak as horror/fantasy...but I consider it one of the best series to have ever graced the air waves.  Chris Carter pointed to it as a direct influence for the X-files, for example.  Kolchak was a very dangerous program when it was new...the original 'Night Stalker' movie was, at the time, the highest rated movie on television.  The series was funny, gritty and downright scary, at times.*




The zombie episode probably has one of the scariest moments on tv as Kolchak attempted to sew the zombie's lips shut...and it woke up.

And, while I agree with you that it may not qualify as a sci-fi series, it did touch on a few sci-fi topics.  Not just the pseudo-sci-fi stuff like the dream monster or the missing links that regenerated (one of my favorites), but straight forward episodes like the invisible alien and Mr. R.I.N.G. (an android).

Boy, thinking of those episodes, you can really see where X-Files came from.  The alien and dream monster especially could have been X-Files episodes with only a little rewriting.

BTW, on a serious note, what, no votes for Misfits Of Science or Automan?


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## Ghostwind (Aug 22, 2003)

The only reddeming quality from Misfits of Science was the presence of Courtney Cox-Arquette....  

We won't even discuss Automan...


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 22, 2003)

The Flash TV show was rather good.


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## WizarDru (Aug 22, 2003)

*Re: Starhunter 2300*



			
				Turgenev said:
			
		

> *I've just started watching the second season of Starhunter (also known as Starhunter 2300) and I like what I've seen so far (which is only two episodes). *




Never heard or seen of this series.  Is this only in Europe, perhaps?  Frankly, any show with Michael Pare that survives more than one season is a miracle...oh wait, it didn't.   Looks interesting.

I also followed that Tripods link, and saw some series I'd just never heard of, like Adam Adamant! (what a great name) and Edge of Darkness.  It's series like those and things like the Headmaster from Hell (or whatever it's actual name was) that never make it over here that's a real shame.  The UK's propensity for short series (like Starcops, for example) means that much of the material never shows here, unless someone at a PBS station decides to pick it up.



> _Originally posted by Villano_
> *The zombie episode probably has one of the scariest moments on tv as Kolchak attempted to sew the zombie's lips shut...and it woke up.*




I remember the absurdity and brilliance from the original "Night Stalker" film, with Kolchak hiding in the closet while the title character is hanging up his hat and walking stick....and Kolchak freaking out and running screaming from the room....much to the Stalker's suprise and dismay. 

That whole zombie sequence was, similarly both comic and terrifying.  

And if you mention Automan again, I will SLAP you.   I mean, ye gods man.


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## Hand of Evil (Aug 22, 2003)

Kind of wonder why someone has not said *Knight Rider*


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## Villano (Aug 22, 2003)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *I remember the absurdity and brilliance from the original "Night Stalker" film, with Kolchak hiding in the closet while the title character is hanging up his hat and walking stick....and Kolchak freaking out and running screaming from the room....much to the Stalker's suprise and dismay. *





Actually, you're confusing the movie, which was about a vampire, with the episode about Jack The Ripper (I think it was simply titled "The Ripper").  

It is a good scene, though.  It's probably one of the most honest representations of what someone in such a situation would do.  Kind of like the old standby in Asian films where, upon being confronted with a monster, a character wets himself.

Things people would do in real life but you hardly ever see them in movies.




> And if you mention Automan again, I will SLAP you.   I mean, ye gods man.





Oh, like you didn't play Automan with your Tron toys?  

Besides, it had Desi Arnez, Jr.  I mean, can you beat that kind of star power?




			
				Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *Kind of wonder why someone has not said Knight Rider  *





That's because Knight Rider sucked.  *Team Knight Rider* on the other hand, now that was a great show!  I'd rank it up there with M.A.N.T.I.S. and Turbo Teen.  Maybe even recent Sinbad series or The Master, with Lee Van Cleef as a ninja (now, whenever I think "ninja", I think "Lee Van Cleef").

True, it's no Manimal, but then again, what is?


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## WizarDru (Aug 22, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> * Actually, you're confusing the movie, which was about a vampire, with the episode about Jack The Ripper (I think it was simply titled "The Ripper").  *





[slaps forehead]  You're right!  Man, why isn't this out on DVD, yet?  Well, at least the first two movies are. 



> *That's because Knight Rider sucked.  Team Knight Rider on the other hand, now that was a great show!  I'd rank it up there with M.A.N.T.I.S. and Turbo Teen.  Maybe even recent Sinbad series or The Master, with Lee Van Cleef as a ninja (now, whenever I think "ninja", I think "Lee Van Cleef").
> 
> True, it's no Manimal, but then again, what is?  *




OK, I see...you're just an evil, EVIL man.  I'm suprised you didn't throw in references to VR5, there.

But don't be hatin' The Master.  It was bad...I mean, _REALLY_ bad...but as kid, I loved it just the same.  Sad to think that I first knew Lee Van Cleef as a ninja master, huh? Oh, the horror.


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