# Overlooked, underappreciated, magic items



## Sekket (Apr 4, 2005)

I was looking through my recently bolstered DnD book collection [what? of course they werent in pdf form! ... really] and noticed the MageBane special weapon ability. Pretty much, it is a Bane (arcane magic user) weapon, with only a +1. This seems like quite the tasty little enhancement, as it gives +2 to attack rolls, and +2d6+2 damage against anyone who uses Arcane spells or spell like abilities [any sorc, bard, or wizard, for starters]... which is significantly larger bonus then Bane (ooze) would give you, barring an Ooze Hunting campaign.

Enough so that is my new favorite magical ability, and likely to be put on my weapon first in all future campaigns. 

I was also wondering, what other gems have I overlooked, or just not seen, in regards to magic items? Are there any shield, armor, or weapon special abilities that are must haves for you or anyone in your gaming group?

Or how about combos? What magic item abilities work well together? For example, what Dragon Stalker wouldnt want a +1 Bane(Mage) Bane(Dragon) bow? That means the for the cost of a +3 weapon, you suddenly have a +5 weapon vs dragons, that deals an extra 4d6 damage! [Coincidentally, I just finished putting together a Dragon Stalker for a Dragun Hunting campaign  ]


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 4, 2005)

Recently our group came across a bunch of Hammerspheres - those things kick arse for the fighter-types. While they are hanging by the casters wating for buffs, they can activate the spheres. A rogue of mine has a Hand of the Mage that has saved his bacon a couple times. The Buffering special quality can be very nice depending on what kinda campaign you are in. Immovable Rods have been used to great effect before - one fight I recall we were getting tore up by these big animated suits of armor, until the fighter tripped one and I stuck an immovable rod in it's helm and activated it.


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## Rystil Arden (Apr 4, 2005)

Well I had thought that most people had already known and complained about Magebane already. If you missed that though, maybe you missed Prayer Beads of Karma. They're pretty good.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 4, 2005)

Yeah, in a standard campaign, magebane is worth much more than its weight in gold.


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## Sekket (Apr 4, 2005)

LasherDragon: What is a Hammersphere - what book does it come from? Where is Buffering and what does it do?

Others: Yes, as I said its been a while since Ive played. Plus, we never had many books before I whored out Shareaza for them... and god knows its /so/ easy to read a few gigabytes of text in pdf format...

I only rarely play casters, and then they are fighter/mages. I dont tell anyone in my group about Prayer Beads, and they dont know to try to use em in my campaign. Works excellently.

*foundly remembers winning an epic level tournament with some Dust of Wheezing (or whatever its called, the stuff that stuns you, no save) as an Iajitsu Master against a monster that would have killed me in a 'fair' fight... and the subsequent ban on the item*


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## Deset Gled (Apr 4, 2005)

I have always loved Quall's Feather Token: Tree.  Being chased down a narrow corridor?  Make a tree to block the way.  Need some cover in a wide open area?  Make a tree to hide behind.  Need a way to cross that river?  Make a tree and fell it to make a bridge.  Need to pass a diplomacy check against a druid?  Nothing says +5 circumstance bonus like building them a tree.

Tanglefoot bags are also often overlooked, though they're not magical.  As Lasher Dragon mentioned, immovable rods can be put in lots of fun places.


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 4, 2005)

Hammersphere appeared originally in Arms & Equipment... our party ran across them in Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil. Buffering is _I think_ in A&E as well - although it might be CAdv or CW... what it does IIRC: It's a +1 bonus. Anytime you would get level drained/take ability damage, it will negate it once per day per enhancement bonus of the armor/shield. I don't have my books here at work LOL so I may be a bit off but that's the basics.


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## frankthedm (Apr 4, 2005)

Bag of tricks. Very usefull for the cost.


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## Lonely Tylenol (Apr 4, 2005)

I expect magebane will be errataed to include the words "bestowed by class levels" to follow "spell-like abilities".  However, not to derail the thread, Hand of the Mage is one of the more useful cheap magic items.  A clever user will find many ways to use minor telekinesis to his advantage...


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 4, 2005)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> Bag of tricks. Very usefull for the cost.




Heh. 
Heh heh. 
[giggle] 

-Hyp.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 4, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Heh.
> Heh heh.
> [giggle]
> 
> -Hyp.




The middle one should really say "Poit!" instead of "Pop!," but that might be infringing on trademarks.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 5, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> The middle one should really say "Poit!" instead of "Pop!," but that might be infringing on trademarks.




Oh, come now.  Any child knows that weasels go 'Pop!'

That's the way the money goes.

-Hyp.


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## Andre (Apr 5, 2005)

I'll second a couple already mentioned:
*Tanglefoot bag
*Bag of Tricks

Some other really nice ones for the cost:
*Pearl of Power (1st level pearls are dirt cheap)
*Heward's Handy Haversack
*Ring of Sustenance
*Boots of Striding and Springing (even the 3.5 version is a bargain)
*Belt of Dwarvenkind (for non-dwarves)
*Brooch of Shielding
*Hat of Disguise
*Necklace of Adaptation
*Rope of Climbing

Special mention: Mithril armor!


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## kenobi65 (Apr 5, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Oh, come now.  Any child knows that weasels go 'Pop!'




Weasels go 'Pop'...ferrets go 'Poit.' 

Anyway, my favorite overlooked magic item is the Cloak of Shelter, from the A&EG.  A 4-person tent with _alarm_ on command, or a _Leomund's secure shelter_ once per day.  Great for the traveling party.


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## beaver1024 (Apr 5, 2005)

Dr. Awkward said:
			
		

> I expect magebane will be errataed to include the words "bestowed by class levels" to follow "spell-like abilities".  However, not to derail the thread, Hand of the Mage is one of the more useful cheap magic items.  A clever user will find many ways to use minor telekinesis to his advantage...




Errata for Complete Arcane is already out. No change to Magebane or Mageslayer or Thought Bottle or Superior Invisibility etc etc.


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## Jack Simth (Apr 5, 2005)

For arcane spellcasters: A Mithral Buckler Shield: +1 AC (before any enhancement bonuses you care to enchant on it...), 0% Arcane Spell Failure, 0 Armor Check Penalty (so it doesn't matter whether or not you are proficient with it), no max dex, and leaves the hand free to cast spells with Somatic components (in case you are wielding a weapon or something in the other hand), all for 1,015 gp.  Enchanted to +1, that puts it at 2,015 gp.


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## Trainz (Apr 5, 2005)

Jack Simth said:
			
		

> For arcane spellcasters: A Mithral Buckler Shield: +1 AC (before any enhancement bonuses you care to enchant on it...), 0% Arcane Spell Failure, 0 Armor Check Penalty (so it doesn't matter whether or not you are proficient with it), no max dex, and leaves the hand free to cast spells with Somatic components (in case you are wielding a weapon or something in the other hand), all for 1,015 gp.  Enchanted to +1, that puts it at 2,015 gp.



I thought that bucklers are made of wood and thus cannot be made with mithral.

A masterwork buckler works just as well though... everyone IMC has one. Coupled with a +5 defending dagger, the mage can get a +11 to AC purty quick...


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 5, 2005)

Trainz said:
			
		

> I thought that bucklers are made of wood and thus cannot be made with mithral.




_*Buckler:* This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm..._



> A masterwork buckler works just as well though... everyone IMC has one. Coupled with a +5 defending dagger, the mage can get a +11 to AC purty quick...




5% ASF.  That's why the mithral's important 

-Hyp.


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## Jack Simth (Apr 5, 2005)

Trainz said:
			
		

> I thought that bucklers are made of wood and thus cannot be made with mithral.
> 
> A masterwork buckler works just as well though... everyone IMC has one. Coupled with a +5 defending dagger, the mage can get a +11 to AC purty quick...



No, a masterwork buckler doesn't work quite as well - it hangs on to that pesky 5% ASF:


			
				SRD_MasterWork_Armor said:
			
		

> *MASTERWORK ARMOR*
> 
> Just as with weapons, you can purchase or craft masterwork versions of armor or shields. Such a well-made item functions like the normal version, except that its armor check penalty is lessened by 1.
> 
> ...



No mention of ASF reduction, while there is under the Mithral entry.


 And a buckler is metal - it's in the description:


			
				SRD_Buckler said:
			
		

> *Buckler*: This small metal shield is worn strapped to your forearm.



There is, however, a Light Wooden shield that has very, very similar characteristics to the buckler.

Edit: Bah, too slow!


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 5, 2005)

Well, this is actually a psionic item, but it has come to my attention that the _psychokinetic_ weapon quality doesn't suck as much as I thought it did.  Mostly because it says: "This extra damage is ectoplasmic in nature and is not affected by damage reduction."  And really, 1d4 DR-penetrating damage isn't bad.

I also have a penchant for throwing _Quaal's Feather Token (Tree)_ at people, and in our last gaming session, someone in my party used a tanglefoot bag to help stop a vrock dance.  And as for the mithral buckler, it's a great place to put _permanencied symbol of death_ and _permanencied symbol of insanity_...


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## Jack Simth (Apr 5, 2005)

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Well, this is actually a psionic item, but it has come to my attention that the _psychokinetic_ weapon quality doesn't suck as much as I thought it did. Mostly because it says: "This extra damage is ectoplasmic in nature and is not affected by damage reduction." And really, 1d4 DR-penetrating damage isn't bad.
> 
> I also have a penchant for throwing _Quaal's Feather Token (Tree)_ at people, and in our last gaming session, someone in my party used a tanglefoot bag to help stop a vrock dance. And as for the mithral buckler, it's a great place to put _permanencied symbol of death_ and _permanencied symbol of insanity_...



Naw - Permanent Heightend Symbol of Persuasion.  No need to cover it in civilized areas .... where you might get ambushed.... because it doesn't really hurt much of anything.  And, you know, if someone joins your party later on, you don't need to worry about it taking out that party member - at worst, they will just keep setting it off, and be gosh darn friendly all the time (useful if there is a character in the party that is constanly being mean to the spellcaster: DM: "No, you can't do that - you've been charmed (for the fifth time today....) and must act Friendly towards him.  The rest of the party?  That's up to you - why do you ask?").


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## Plane Sailing (Apr 5, 2005)

Considering that we just got hammered by a clay golem and have no way of healing the damage we took from it (and guess what, no magic adamantine blunt weapons around), a GolemBane scarab looks like fantastic value for money...


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## isoChron (Apr 5, 2005)

A Lyre of Building is wonderful powerful item. My group sold it nonetheless it saved their hide at the next market.


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## Testament (Apr 5, 2005)

Pearl of Power I, especially with the WRONGWRONGWRONG 1st level Orbs in the Complete Conjurer.

Hat of Disguise is a DM's nightmare in Urban games.  All of a sudden you look like someone else.  For 2K, it's a bargain.

A Dwarf with a Ring of Sustenance is a great security system at night.

Brooches of Shielding are nice, but compete for a very valuable magic item slot.


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## Staffan (Apr 5, 2005)

Testament said:
			
		

> Pearl of Power I, especially with the WRONGWRONGWRONG 1st level Orbs in the Complete Conjurer.



I assume you mean Complete Arcane, in which case I have to ask what's wrong with the Lesser orbs. They do 1d8/odd level energy damage, require a ranged touch attack to hit, and have Close range. Compare to Magic Missile, which does (1d4+1)/odd level Force damage, automatically hits, has Medium range, and can be split up between targets. The Orbs do 1 point more damage per die, but run the risk of missing (OK, they also have a chance to crit, but that chance is usually less than the risk of missing), have a shorter range, are subject to energy resistance, and don't automatically affect incorporeal targets. That's a lot of tradeoffs for a measly point of damage per two levels.

The only problem I have with the Orbs is that someone apparently misplaced them in the Conjuration school. They are clearly Evocations (except maybe Orb of Acid), and should allow SR.


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## VirgilCaine (Apr 5, 2005)

Sekket said:
			
		

> *foundly remembers winning an epic level tournament with some Dust of Wheezing (or whatever its called, the stuff that stuns you, no save) as an Iajitsu Master against a monster that would have killed me in a 'fair' fight... and the subsequent ban on the item*




It's strange. I can't find it in the SRD anymore. It was a NASTY cursed item though.


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## Darmanicus (Apr 5, 2005)

Forgot the name of the armour now but it can be found in BoED and makes you immune to all death/negative energy/stat drain effects IIRC.


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## Plane Sailing (Apr 5, 2005)

Staffan said:
			
		

> The only problem I have with the Orbs is that someone apparently misplaced them in the Conjuration school. They are clearly Evocations (except maybe Orb of Acid), and should allow SR.




I'm pretty sure that is why he referred to it as "complete conjurer", since that book managed to give the Conjurer superior blasting power to the evoker...


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 5, 2005)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> Weasels go 'Pop'...ferrets go 'Poit.'




Exactly!


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## Bad Paper (Apr 5, 2005)

I am going to agree and say that Golembane Scarab is topnotch.  Possibly too powerful, even, but xlnt value for the money.

Now back to our previously hijacked thread...



			
				Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure that is why he referred to it as "complete conjurer", since that book managed to give the Conjurer superior blasting power to the evoker...




My PC is an evoker, thus: yes I am more than a little annoyed at the appearance of the slightly broken Orb spells.  Orb of Sound?  What in tarnation is that?  No, seriously: the spell is a Creation.  Sound is an energy.  No sense.  I HATE that!  I'm still bitter that Mage Armor is a conjuration, and now they make this greater-magic-missile "Orb of Force" thing a conjuration as well.

The saving grace for the 4th-level Orb spells is that they are 4th-level, comparable in damage to 3rd-level evocations.  The fact that they don't allow saving throws is a good thing (for evokers), as it means conjurers are burning a 4th-level spell slot without getting that +1 on the save DC.  The primary Broken aspect is that the Orbs (like most conjurations) don't allow spell resistance, implying that the conjurer conjures up a material object (not an energy) and flings it at his target.

I work in a chemistry lab; I can imagine an orb of acid, like a water balloon full of HNO3, sure, but an Orb of Electricity?  If it can be conjured, then it can be manufactured.  Why can't alchemists make flasks of Electricity?  Maybe they can throw batteries at demons..?


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## Mistah J (Apr 5, 2005)

*Bag o' Food and Mules!*

The Survival Pouch from Races of the Wild. 

It's kinda like buying a small Ranger for five grand. Well worth the money I think.


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## kenobi65 (Apr 5, 2005)

Bad Paper said:
			
		

> Why can't alchemists make flasks of Electricity?  Maybe they can throw batteries at demons..?




They already do that at certain football stadiums in the Eastern U.S., sometimes embedded in snowballs.


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## Pielorinho (Apr 5, 2005)

isoChron said:
			
		

> A Lyre of Building is wonderful powerful item. My group sold it nonetheless it saved their hide at the next market.




Yep:  _Magical Medieval Society:  Western Europe_ has a lovely analysis of this.  Basically, any smart king is gonna tightly control these lyres, because in a remarkably short period of time, a mid-level bard can build millions of GP worth of fortifications to stand against said king using the Lyre.  A single one can completely unbalance a campaign.  They're *way* underpriced in the DMG.

(My preferred solution would be to make their buildings ephemeral, lasting for one week after their construction; alternatively, a lyre may be used for one playing cycle to construct something permanent, at the end of which it crumbles to dust).

Daniel


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## RuminDange (Apr 5, 2005)

VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> It's strange. I can't find it in the SRD anymore. It was a NASTY cursed item though.




I think you might be referring to this:



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Dust of Sneezing and Choking:* This fine dust appears to be dust of appearance. If cast into the air, it causes those within a 20- foot spread to fall into fits of sneezing and coughing. Those failing a DC 15 Fortitude save take 2d6 points of Constitution damage immediately. In addition, those failing a second DC 15 Fortitude save 1 minute later are dealt 1d6 points of Constitution damage. Those who succeed on either saving throw are nonetheless disabled by choking (treat as stunned) for 5d4 rounds.
> Faint conjuration; CL 7th; Create Wondrous Item, poison; Price 2,400 gp.




Best damn item for a cursed item I've ever seen at crippling even the most powerful characters, even if they can make the save, the stunning makes it very very nasty.   Just glad my players haven't thought about making it or finding more of it.  I've only used it once against the high-level Druid of the group in a strange way of teaching a lesson she was being rather predictable when she had enemies trying to get her.  And the lesson came from a semi-friendly ex-enemy Green Dragon.   

RD


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## IcyCool (Apr 5, 2005)

RuminDange, keep in mind that with that item, someone has to be at the center of that spread.  So that takes out one of the PC's as well as anyone withing 20ft.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 5, 2005)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> RuminDange, keep in mind that with that item, someone has to be at the center of that spread.  So that takes out one of the PC's as well as anyone withing 20ft.




Unless, of course, you use the cantrip Launch Item ...


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## Delemental (Apr 5, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Unless, of course, you use the cantrip Launch Item ...




Or the Hand of the Mage, which has already been mentioned in this thread.


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## Dracomeander (Apr 5, 2005)

As long as the one using the Dust has a Necklace of Adaptation, the Dust shouldn't affect him.

Beware of rogues with that combination.


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## Amy Kou'ai (Apr 5, 2005)

Bad Paper said:
			
		

> Why can't alchemists make flasks of Electricity?




Sure they can.  In Eberron, at least.


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 5, 2005)

Delemental said:
			
		

> Or the Hand of the Mage, which has already been mentioned in this thread.




Wouldn't work... Hand of the Mage can't touch magical items. Kinda sux


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 5, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Wouldn't work... Hand of the Mage can't touch magical items. Kinda sux




Huh ...



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Hand of the Mage:* This mummified elf hand hangs by a golden chain around a character’s neck (taking up space as a magic necklace would). It allows the wearer to utilize the spell mage hand at will.
> Faint transmutation; CL 2nd; Craft Wondrous Item, mage hand; Price 900 gp;Weight 2 lb.






			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Mage Hand*
> Transmutation
> Level: Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0
> Components: V, S
> ...




I wonder why that limitation is in there ...


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 5, 2005)

Yeah... it sux because for a while (before I realized this) I would use my bow, then if it got to melee combat I would drop my bow and pull out my melee weapons. If I needed my bow again, assuming I had moved since I dropped it, I would mage-hand it back to me. Well, my bow is magical. I still wear it, and it has gotten me outta some tight places, but it's just not as cool with that seemingly small limitation.


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## RuminDange (Apr 5, 2005)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> RuminDange, keep in mind that with that item, someone has to be at the center of that spread.  So that takes out one of the PC's as well as anyone withing 20ft.




Very true if used as normal dust is used.  The idea of the cursed dust is believing it to be one of the more useful sorts and tossing it into the air to activating it as in this case of using dust of appearance, which the S&C dust tends to be identified as.  Now dust of appearance is not a dust you would use on yourself but on an area to make invisible targets appear right?  See how it tends to be stored?  That means tossing the open packet or blowing the dust out of a tube means the activator doesn't necessarily get caught by it, except the S&C dust covers a 20 ft spread as opposed to the 10 foot radius of the dust of appearance which means the person unknownly could get caught in it as well as others it was not intended for.



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Dust of Appearance:* This fine powder appears to be a very fine, very light metallic dust. A single handful of this substance flung into the air coats objects within a 10-foot radius, making them visible even if they are invisible. It likewise negates the effects of blur and displacement. (In this, it works just like the faerie fire spell). The dust also reveals figments, mirror images, and projected images for what they are. A creature coated with the dust takes a –30 penalty on its Hide checks. The dust’s effect lasts for 5 minutes.
> *Dust of appearance is typically stored in small silk packets or hollow bone tubes.*
> Faint conjuration; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, glitterdust; Price 1,800 gp



  Emphasis mine.

However if you know it to be the cursed kind you could fly over head and drop the open dust packet on a target area or launch it like a grenage to throw the packet into a square near the target to mark the center of the area of effect or even blow it from the tube into the area in which you will not be caught the area of effect when it spreads out, but not sure if RAW is clear how that is possible off the top of my head but that's why we DM's have to make on the fly calls at times right?
So I'm not convinced that someone who knows what the dust is would always get caught by it when they used it.

RD


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## RuminDange (Apr 5, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Unless, of course, you use the cantrip Launch Item ...



That is one cantrip I tend to forget about when doing RBDM tricks like the dust of S&C.   
I'll have to remember that more often.   

RD


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## RuminDange (Apr 5, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Huh ...
> ...
> I wonder why that limitation is in there ...




A limitation I've never understood either, sort like the Cure Minor Wounds only healing 1 point when damage doing cantrips do 1d3 points.

RD


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 5, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Wouldn't work... Hand of the Mage can't touch magical items. Kinda sux




You don't use Mage Hand to move the magical dust.

You use Mage Hand to move the non-magical handkerchief that contains the magical dust, and invert it over your opponents.

-Hyp.


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## Lord Pendragon (Apr 6, 2005)

I've always chaffed at the "no magic items" restriction on _Mage Hand_ as well.  In a previous game I played a fighter/mage with a bonded weapon, and wanted to use _Mage Hand_ so he could call his sword to him, ala Luke Skywalker, if he ever lost hold of it.  The DM generously allowed me to do so with the sword (and only the sword) on account of the magical bond, but it was clearly a House Rule.

I believe the restriction is there as a relic of earlier editions of D&D, where the party would often encounter a small magical item set in a trap.  Such as a ring gleaming from inside a sinister skull.  With an unfettered _Mage Hand_ the party could get the ring without ever having to deal with the trap on the skull.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 6, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> With an unfettered _Mage Hand_ the party could get the ring without ever having to deal with the trap on the skull.




So you cast Mage Hand to maneuver your non-magical fish-hook...

-Hyp.


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## Lord Pendragon (Apr 6, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> So you cast Mage Hand to maneuver your non-magical fish-hook...
> 
> -Hyp.



Well, not all design rationale is Smurf-proof.


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## Jeremy (Apr 6, 2005)

Go forth mine unseen servant!  Drop this over yon!

What?  You mean one of them actually FAILED the DC 15 save?  Doesn't matter really, you're all dead anyways.


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## moritheil (Apr 6, 2005)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> Go forth mine unseen servant!  Drop this over yon!




I love that spell, and this is but one of the reasons why.


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## Saeviomagy (Apr 6, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> I've always chaffed at the "no magic items" restriction on _Mage Hand_ as well.




If you want to do magic items, just use an unseen servant.


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## ARandomGod (Apr 6, 2005)

Lasher Dragon said:
			
		

> Yeah... it sux because for a while (before I realized this) I would use my bow, then if it got to melee combat I would drop my bow and pull out my melee weapons. If I needed my bow again, assuming I had moved since I dropped it, I would mage-hand it back to me. Well, my bow is magical. I still wear it, and it has gotten me outta some tight places, but it's just not as cool with that seemingly small limitation.





I say, put a small, nonmagical ring around the center of your bow. Lift IT with mage hand, and as long as the ring and the bow aren't more than 5lbs together, lifting the nonmagical ring should drag the bow along with it.

Since that takes special preparation, and I can't see how it's 'overpowered', I think that should be able to overcome this limitation.



			
				Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> You don't use Mage Hand to move the magical dust.
> 
> You use Mage Hand to move the non-magical handkerchief that contains the magical dust, and invert it over your opponents.
> 
> -Hyp.




And there you are, a similar thought that really should also work.


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## Lasher Dragon (Apr 6, 2005)

Good idea Random - thank you


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## KarinsDad (Apr 6, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> You don't use Mage Hand to move the magical dust.
> 
> You use Mage Hand to move the non-magical handkerchief that contains the magical dust, and invert it over your opponents.




Did I catch Hyp in a RULES violation???

Target: *One* nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.

Any container with something in it (such as a potion bottle with a potion in it or a non-magical handkerchief that contains the magical dust) would literally be more than one object.


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## cignus_pfaccari (Apr 6, 2005)

Ring of Telekinesis:  Sure, it's expensive, but it brings the rogue into a whole new world of B&E.  Worried that the trap controls have booby traps?  Use the ring and manipulate them from around a corner!

Field Provisions Box:  Never worry about food again for less than the cost of a +1 sword.

Magic Sleeping Bag:  Be all warm and snuggly and save on healing expenses, for 1000 gp!

Travel Cloak:  Keeps you warm when walking?  Check.  Keeps rain off you, even in the worst downpour?  Check.  All the day's food and drink you need?  Check.  Turns into a tent for the night?  Check.  And it's only 1200 gp!

Adamantine Dagger:  Falling down near a wall and don't have Slow Fall?  Use this to give yourself an easy handhold!

Golembane Scarab:  "Wait, for 2500 gp, I can beat the (bleep) out of golems and not have to buy expensive adamantine weapons?  All right!"

Brad


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 6, 2005)

KarinsDad said:
			
		

> Did I catch Hyp in a RULES violation???




Nope.  



> Target: *One* nonmagical, unattended object weighing up to 5 lb.
> 
> Any container with something in it (such as a potion bottle with a potion in it or a non-magical handkerchief that contains the magical dust) would literally be more than one object.




And yet, when you select the target for the spell, you may only select a single object.  That object needs to be nonmagical.  There is no requirement that it not be tied to or surrounding something else.

Similarly, a Charm Person spell can have an effect upon items (Target: One humanoid creature, and "Say, can I borrow your knife?"), even though it cannot target them directly.


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## KarinsDad (Apr 6, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> And yet, when you select the target for the spell, you may only select a single object.  That object needs to be nonmagical.  There is no requirement that it not be tied to or surrounding something else.




So, are you claiming with this that you can move a potion by moving the potion bottle?

That seems to go against the spriit of the spell (even though I can buy into the literal reading).


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 6, 2005)

KarinsDad said:
			
		

> So, are you claiming with this that you can move a potion by moving the potion bottle?




Yep.  Or the cork - though that might cause problems with heavy potions.

You could not use the spell to move, say, a magic ring - because the ring in its entirety is magical.  Similarly, you could not use this spell to move a Decanter of Endless Water - again, the whole thing is magical.


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## KarinsDad (Apr 7, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Yep.  Or the cork - though that might cause problems with heavy potions.




Potions heavier than 5 pounds??? That's 5 pints or over a 5/8th gallon potion. Doubtful that any cork would weight that much, even made out of metal.



			
				Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> You could not use the spell to move, say, a magic ring - because the ring in its entirety is magical.  Similarly, you could not use this spell to move a Decanter of Endless Water - again, the whole thing is magical.




This ruling, however, does make it that you could "prep" items ahead of time in order to get past the spell restriction. For example, you could tie a cloth around your magic bow or put a twine around the top of the Decanter of Endless Water or a string around your magic ring.

Kind of defeats the purpose of the non-magical part of the spell, yes?


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 7, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Similarly, a Charm Person spell can have an effect upon items (Target: One humanoid creature, and "Say, can I borrow your knife?"), even though it cannot target them directly.




Gets into the "Can Flesh to Stone affect zombies?" question 

And for some reason, I have an image of Robert Patrick saying "Say... that's a nice bike..."

-Hyp.


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## Rystil Arden (Apr 7, 2005)

> Kind of defeats the purpose of the non-magical part of the spell, yes?




Not really.  The non-magical clause was put there to prevent you from messing with other people's magical stuff with a cantrip (setting off magic traps, stealing the powerful magic item, etc).  Allowing someone to move their own stuff that they specifically prepared ahead of time does not defeat this.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 7, 2005)

KarinsDad said:
			
		

> Kind of defeats the purpose of the non-magical part of the spell, yes?




Not really.  The BBEG drops his magic wand on the altar to pull out his greatsword - Mage Hand can't steal the wand.

The Gem of Awesomeness levitates thirty feet above the floor of the Star Chamber - Mage Hand can't pull it down.

Etc, etc.

-Hyp.


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## d-pirate (Apr 7, 2005)

Well if mage hand can't work on magic items of any kind then we have a possibility of abuse.
Its basically a low level "detect magic" by default. Party finds a bunch of treasure and no detect magic spell? Use your hand of the mage on all those masterwork items and wallah the ones that move aren't magical.


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## Rystil Arden (Apr 7, 2005)

d-pirate said:
			
		

> Well if mage hand can't work on magic items of any kind then we have a possibility of abuse.
> Its basically a low level "detect magic" by default. Party finds a bunch of treasure and no detect magic spell? Use your hand of the mage on all those masterwork items and wallah the ones that move aren't magical.



 Huh?  Mage Hand and Detect Magic are the same level...


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## HeavyG (Apr 7, 2005)

KarinsDad said:
			
		

> Potions heavier than 5 pounds??? That's 5 pints or over a 5/8th gallon potion. Doubtful that any cork would weight that much, even made out of metal.




I think he meant that if a potion weighs a lot and you cast it on the cork, it'll open and the bottle will fall to the ground.

Besides, the spell doesn't necessarily generate what physics would call "force". Technically, with that interpretation, as long as your vial weighs less than 5 pounds, the liquid inside could weigh 15 tons and it would still follow. In fact, cast it on a small rock tied to a huge object and you pull really huge weights. Or, you could cast it on a nonmagical mithral heavy shield and use it as a flying platform (don't stop concentrating, though ).


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 7, 2005)

d-pirate said:
			
		

> Well if mage hand can't work on magic items of any kind then we have a possibility of abuse.
> Its basically a low level "detect magic" by default. Party finds a bunch of treasure and no detect magic spell? Use your hand of the mage on all those masterwork items and wallah the ones that move aren't magical.




Unless they weigh more than 5 lbs.

And Detect Magic has a range of 60 feet, and also tells you aura strength and potentially school, and can detect auras through solid objects to an extent.

And a cantrip... Detect Magic _is_ low-level.

(And it's '_voilà_'.  A 'wallah' is a person in charge of or employed at a particular thing.)

-Hyp.


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## d-pirate (Apr 7, 2005)

The statement wasn't about strength of auras or comparable spell levels. Hand of the Mage costs what 900gp? Basically acting as a limited detect magic "at will" for objects yes that weigh less than 5 pounds. And I understand you may not get "all" the info a real detect magic does but what you do get is a quick check if it's magical and get to move it around the room to boot.

And the example earlier in the post about the potential magic item in the skull, try to move in with the hand if it moves then its not magical and move on.


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## Lela (Apr 8, 2005)

d-pirate said:
			
		

> The statement wasn't about strength of auras or comparable spell levels. Hand of the Mage costs what 900gp? Basically acting as a limited detect magic "at will" for objects yes that weigh less than 5 pounds. And I understand you may not get "all" the info a real detect magic does but what you do get is a quick check if it's magical and get to move it around the room to boot.
> 
> And the example earlier in the post about the potential magic item in the skull, try to move in with the hand if it moves then its not magical and move on.



 Even then. . .why is that abuse?


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## Shellman (Apr 8, 2005)

cignus_pfaccari said:
			
		

> Ring of Telekinesis:  Sure, it's expensive, but it brings the rogue into a whole new world of B&E.  Worried that the trap controls have booby traps?  Use the ring and manipulate them from around a corner!
> 
> Field Provisions Box:  Never worry about food again for less than the cost of a +1 sword.
> 
> ...




Brad,

    I haven't see the Feild Provisions Box, Magic Sleeping Bag or Traveling Cloak. Where do I find them?

Thanks!


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## Inconsequenti-AL (Apr 8, 2005)

SRD said:
			
		

> Dust of Sneezing and Choking: This fine dust appears to be dust of appearance. If cast into the air, it causes those within a 20- foot spread to fall into fits of sneezing and coughing. Those failing a DC 15 Fortitude save take 2d6 points of Constitution damage immediately. In addition, those failing a second DC 15 Fortitude save 1 minute later are dealt 1d6 points of Constitution damage. Those who succeed on either saving throw are nonetheless disabled by choking (treat as stunned) for 5d4 rounds.
> Faint conjuration; CL 7th; Create Wondrous Item, poison; Price 2,400 gp.




Weird. If I'm reading that right, it seems you only get stunned if you make the save?

In many combat circumstances I'd rather lose 2D6 con than be stunned for 5D4 rounds. If you know what it is, could you voluntarily fail the save? How could you find out - Analyse Dwomer?


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## RuminDange (Apr 8, 2005)

Inconsequenti-AL said:
			
		

> Weird. If I'm reading that right, it seems you only get stunned if you make the save?
> 
> In many combat circumstances I'd rather lose 2D6 con than be stunned for 5D4 rounds. If you know what it is, could you voluntarily fail the save? How could you find out - Analyse Dwomer?




Interesting, it looks like it could be read that way, except for the second sentence where it says _"fall into fits of sneezing and coughing."_  part would make you think that everyone would be coughing and sneezing and therefore be stunned.  But we all know how clear the RAW can beat at times.  

RD


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## cignus_pfaccari (Apr 8, 2005)

Shellman said:
			
		

> Brad,I haven't see the Feild Provisions Box, Magic Sleeping Bag or Traveling Cloak. Where do I find them?




Field Provisions Box and Magic Sleeping Bag are from Miniatures Handbook.  Most of the rest of the items in the book are either overpriced (the DR shirts), stupid (the "Wear this for 24 hours continually before it works" helmets, armors, etc.), or blatantly broken (the Belt of Magnificence*).  However, there are a few gems like those in there, and the weapon stuff is nice, too.

Travel Cloak is from Magic of Faerun.  Quite nice, really.

Brad

Edit:  * - An item that gives +2, +4, or +6 enhancement bonus to all six attributes.  Why is it broken, you say?  +6 for 200k is a bit on the low side; actually, by the RAW, it should cost 396k gp!


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## darkelfo (Apr 8, 2005)

I may have seen this in this thread or another, but is there an item that's equivalent to a collapsible writing desk? I'm thinking like a small figurine of a writing desk that upon command turns into a full-sized one. This is important for when those moments of creativity strike and you just have to writing things down in diginity and comfort. 

But seriously, is there a comperable item? I want to see the price and pre-reqs.


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## IcyCool (Apr 8, 2005)

darkelfo said:
			
		

> I may have seen this in this thread or another, but is there an item that's equivalent to a collapsible writing desk? I'm thinking like a small figurine of a writing desk that upon command turns into a full-sized one. This is important for when those moments of creativity strike and you just have to writing things down in diginity and comfort.
> 
> But seriously, is there a comperable item? I want to see the price and pre-reqs.




Folding Boat maybe?  Daern's Instant Fortress?  Anything affected by the Item spell?


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## Cedious (Apr 8, 2005)

> Originally Posted by SRD
> Dust of Sneezing and Choking: This fine dust appears to be dust of appearance. If cast into the air, it causes those within a 20- foot spread to fall into fits of sneezing and coughing. Those failing a DC 15 Fortitude save take 2d6 points of Constitution damage immediately. In addition, those failing a second DC 15 Fortitude save 1 minute later are dealt 1d6 points of Constitution damage. Those who succeed on either saving throw are nonetheless disabled by choking (treat as stunned) for 5d4 rounds.
> Faint conjuration; CL 7th; Create Wondrous Item, poison; Price 2,400 gp.








			
				Inconsequenti-AL said:
			
		

> Weird. If I'm reading that right, it seems you only get stunned if you make the save?
> 
> In many combat circumstances I'd rather lose 2D6 con than be stunned for 5D4 rounds. If you know what it is, could you voluntarily fail the save? How could you find out - Analyse Dwomer?





*Those who succeed on either saving throw are nonetheless disabled by choking (treat as stunned) for 5d4 rounds.*

it does say NONETHELESS, so the way im reading it makes me think that it still effects everyone, now if it said Those who succeed on either saving throw are disabled by choking (treat as stunned) for 5d4 rounds.
Then i would say yes that only effects those who passed there saving throw.


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## Jack Simth (Apr 9, 2005)

darkelfo said:
			
		

> I may have seen this in this thread or another, but is there an item that's equivalent to a collapsible writing desk? I'm thinking like a small figurine of a writing desk that upon command turns into a full-sized one. This is important for when those moments of creativity strike and you just have to writing things down in diginity and comfort.
> 
> But seriously, is there a comperable item? I want to see the price and pre-reqs.




Let's see... The Secure Shelter spell includes a writing desk (Sor/Wiz 4)

Mage's Magnificient Mansion works if you REALLY want to write in style (Sor/Wiz 7)

You could use two Immovable Rods (5,000 gp each) and a board.

A Rod of Security can do fun stuff for you - but only once a week. (61,000 gp, doesn't come with a desk, sorry)

You might be able to tell one of the Figureines to hold still for you (they pretty much all remain hard; good luck finding one with a flat surface, though) for about 10-20 k.

You could put a normal writing desk in a Glove of Storing for 10k.

You could set up a workshop in a Portable Hole, and just spread it out as needed to access it for 20,000 + workshop stuff.

You could also get a small desk, and put a Permanencied Shrink Item (Sor/Wiz 3 for Shrink Item; Sor/Wiz 5, caster level 11th, 1500 exp for Permanency) on it - at 1/16th its normal size, a four-foot cubic desk (4 feet high, 4 feet wide, 4 feet long) would drop down to a 3-inch cube - about the size of a rubix cube, and could be used at will.  You could also just re-cast Shrink Item every time you use the desk, for no exp.


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## Jack Simth (Apr 9, 2005)

Sekket said:
			
		

> I was also wondering, what other gems have I overlooked, or just not seen, in regards to magic items? Are there any shield, armor, or weapon special abilities that are must haves for you or anyone in your gaming group?
> 
> Or how about combos? What magic item abilities work well together?



Ring of Telekinesis, with an efficent quiver, on a class with full BAB (also need lots and lots (60) arrows, 18 javelins, and 6 spears); the process is simple enough - dump out a bunch of arrows/javelins/spears (or pull them straight from the quiver, if your DM allows it) and then use the ring's Violent Thrust ability to throw them at the target - you get your nine attacks with your full BAB, the ring's key ability bonus (as a 5th level spell in an item, that will be 2) (note that the arrows only deal damage as for a dagger of their size - 1d4, I think), every round (well... until you run out of ammo).  For the javelins, that's 1d6 per (two full turns of this crazyness - not consumed in the attack).  For the spears, that's 1d8 per spear (can't run a full turn with this, unless you have more than one EQ).  If you bring along a cart full of unsheathed Greatswords made for Large Creatures (3d6 damage, 100 gp each, 16 lbs each; could also use Greataxes for 3d6 damage, 40 gp each, and 24 lbs each; neither form is destroyed when used this way - unless the terrain (or DM will) says so), that's nine attacks for 3d6 each - 27d6 damage per round, potentially, as a standard action.  Goes great with a Fighter, Paladin, Ranger, or any other class with full BAB.  Or should we find a "twink" category for this?


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Telekinesis*: This ring allows the caster to use the spell telekinesis on command.
> 
> Moderate transmutation; CL 9th; Forge Ring, telekinesis; Price 75,000 gp.





			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Telekinesis*
> 
> _Transmutation_
> 
> ...





			
				SRD said:
			
		

> *Efficient Quiver*: This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about twenty arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to sixty objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to eighteen objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can produce any item she wishes, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what’s placed inside it.
> 
> Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Price 1,800 gp;Weight 2 lb.


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## Elemental (Apr 10, 2005)

Soulfire armour is a +4 armour enhancement from the BoED, and quite awesomely underpriced--for IMMUNITY to death effects, negative energy effects ability damage and drain _from any source_ and any other negative energy effects, it ought to be epic--compare it with Protection from Transmutation.


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## Storyteller01 (Apr 10, 2005)

Not quite in keeping with the thread, but what the hay...

Player (the drunk of the party) picked up a modified decanter of endless water:  DM called it the flask of endless alcohol. It was a funny joke until on day the player stuck it on a wall, upside-down and open. Then he left a torch on the floor and walked out...

Ended the adveture rather abruptly.


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## Bryan898 (Apr 10, 2005)

Some of my favorite items to use are simple one use items:

I like potions like Greater Magic Weapon +X, Magic Vestment +X, Shield of Faith +X, they provide a handy boost for my NPCs without adding to much treasure to the PCs. 

Elemental Gems, summon a large elemental for only 2,250 gp.  Nice little help in those big combats, or a good helper for a lower level BBEG.

Quaal's Feather Token Whip, I love this thing at lower levels.  

Stonesalve, handy for any adventurer.  Use it to cure petrification, or if needed a quick use of stoneskin to keep you alive in that big combat.

Etherealness on armor, it seems expensive but the ability to get out of a very hairy situation once per day is pretty nice IMO.

Absorbing Shield.  In 3.0 it was an instant kill with a touch attack (as sphere of annihilation), now it's a 17th level disintegration, thats a possible 34d6.


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## Mahali (Apr 10, 2005)

Figurine Marble Elephant.

I got one as treasure once and it was amazing.  Nothing like summoning a HUGE 10th lvl fighter that flanks for everyone in the party.


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## Cedious (Apr 13, 2005)

i have made good use out of scrolls of retreat and invis potions.....there allways handy as a backup incase the brown stuff hits the fan.


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## moritheil (Apr 21, 2005)

What did the DM rule happened?  An explosion?  Not terribly realistic, but a pretty cool way to go.  The alcohol shouldn't explode unless it was pretty well mixed with air . . . you should get a lot of fire, though.



			
				Storyteller01 said:
			
		

> Not quite in keeping with the thread, but what the hay...
> 
> Player (the drunk of the party) picked up a modified decanter of endless water: DM called it the flask of endless alcohol. It was a funny joke until on day the player stuck it on a wall, upside-down and open. Then he left a torch on the floor and walked out...
> 
> Ended the adveture rather abruptly.


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## Rkhet (Apr 21, 2005)

Wand of Summon Monster IV.  Summon a lamp archon.  For 21000 gold you get fifty charges of something that'll heal you for 1d8+3 SEVEN TIMES before it goes away.  Not to mention the +1 buff.


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## Diirk (Apr 22, 2005)

Lantern archon ? It has an aura of menace, I don't see any +1 buff tho ? And the only thing close I see to a heal is aid, but thats only temporary hp which don't stack, and they'd fade as soon as the 7 rounds passed, too...

Did I miss something?


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## ARandomGod (Apr 22, 2005)

Rkhet said:
			
		

> Wand of Summon Monster IV.  Summon a lamp archon.  For 21000 gold you get fifty charges of something that'll heal you for 1d8+3 SEVEN TIMES before it goes away.  Not to mention the +1 buff.




You had me all excited. But it doesn't *heal* you exactly. It can cast aid, which gives temp HP's. However that does give me a new place to look for legitimate arcane healing. Now, what reasonably summonable creature can actually *heal*?


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## Rkhet (Apr 22, 2005)

Oh, you know what I mean. What's better, when you get Summon Monster VI you can get 1d4+1 (average 3.5) lantern archons for at least 11 rounds. That's ~288hp + 26/lvl - more healing (and versatility) than Heal, though slower. 

Or how about using Lesser Planar Binding on one?  Pay it 1000gp (1HD) to keep it around all week - definitely a bargain.

You want the actual spell Heal, you need Summon IX, netting a Leonal for a 100pt Heal plus 114pt Lay on Hand, plus some other assorted Cleric goodness. But that's way later, and not quite as twinkworthy.

Hmmm... wait.  I have always assumed that if you are below full hitpoints and you gain temporary hitpoints, it automatically converts to healing - only counts as temporary hitpoints if you're already fully healed.  Am I wrong on this?


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## Diirk (Apr 22, 2005)

If you want temporary hp, false life is far better... lasts longer than 1 round/level and gives you more hp (effects from summoned critters disappear when the summoned critters do). Also takes a slot 2 levels lower.

(It just occurred to me the +1 buff he was referring to referred to the buff part of the aid spell ! duh !)

As far as healing from summoned critters... unicorns are good, but thats Summon Nature's Ally, unfortunately


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 22, 2005)

ARandomGod said:
			
		

> You had me all excited. But it doesn't *heal* you exactly. It can cast aid, which gives temp HP's. However that does give me a new place to look for legitimate arcane healing. Now, what reasonably summonable creature can actually *heal*?




Bralani, Summon Monster VI, Cure Serious Wounds 2/day.

-Hyp.


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## Lela (Apr 22, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Bralani, Summon Monster VI, Cure Serious Wounds 2/day.
> 
> -Hyp.



 Cost in Wand form?


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 22, 2005)

Lela said:
			
		

> Cost in Wand form?




Can't be done.  Wands can only hold up to 4th-level spells.  A staff, however, would cost:

Summon Monster 6 = 6th-level Spell

Cost: 6 * 11 * 750 = 49,500gp = 990gp / charge

Cost per Cure Serious Wounds: 990 / 2 = 495gp (at CL 6 - 3d8+6)

Cost for Wand of Cure Serious (SL: 3):  3 * 5 * 750 = 11,250gp = 225gp / charge

Cost for Wand of Cure Serious (SL: 3, CL: 6):  3 * 6 * 750 = 13,500gp = 270gp / charge

It's not a good deal, if all you want it for is healing.


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## Diirk (Apr 22, 2005)

Rkhet said:
			
		

> Oh, you know what I mean. What's better, when you get Summon Monster VI you can get 1d4+1 (average 3.5) lantern archons for at least 11 rounds. That's ~288hp + 26/lvl - more healing (and versatility) than Heal, though slower.
> 
> Hmmm... wait.  I have always assumed that if you are below full hitpoints and you gain temporary hitpoints, it automatically converts to healing - only counts as temporary hitpoints if you're already fully healed.  Am I wrong on this?




Yes.


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## Lord Pendragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> It's not a good deal, if all you want it for is healing.



But it is if you want "legitimate arcane healing."


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Apr 22, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> But it is if you want "legitimate arcane healing."




In that case, talk to a bard!


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## Diirk (Apr 22, 2005)

Arcane Disciple with the Healing domain ? Limited Wish? Vampiric Touching summoned critters ?


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## Zithuan (Apr 22, 2005)

The energon, Xag-ya from MotP has a positive energy lash that heals 2d8+5, and can be used 5/day.  Dragon 302 lists it as summonable with Summon Monster V.


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## moritheil (Apr 25, 2005)

> Legitimate arcane healing




Uh . . . become a Nilbog?

*ducks thrown debris*


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