# Game Over for Gamer's Paradise



## Mark (Aug 2, 2008)

http://www.suntimes.com/technology/guy/1067358,CST-FIN-gamers22web.article



> *Deals abound as it's game over for Gamer's Paradise*
> 
> Anyone looking for a bargain chess set, Scrabble game or Yu-Gi-Oh! cards can find them at a going-out-of-business sale for 29-year-old Chicago retailer Gamer's Paradise.
> 
> ...


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## Darrin Drader (Aug 2, 2008)

I wonder how long it will be before there are no gaming stores left. The latest estimates I've heard put them around 700. That's not much, and I keep reading about a new one going out of business every week.

Sad times.


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## frankthedm (Aug 2, 2008)

Not really a surprise, they have had stores closing all over. Theft and mall rent are always bad but this last decade had horrid GW price gouging and a LOT of _Major_ brand RPG stockpiles that became stagnant with new editions release.

2E
WoD2E
3E
3Ed20 3PP {Much of which spent the lions share of its shelf life marked at 40% off!]
WoD3E
Exalted1E
3.5e
3.5Ed20 3PP


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## AtomicPope (Aug 2, 2008)

OMG!!

I grew up in Oak Lawn.  I shopped at Chicago Ridge as a mall rat since freshman year, frequenting Gamer's Paradise.  Wow that sucks.  Sad news.  I'm going to email my brother, maybe he can pick up some stuff.  *sigh*


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## Mark (Aug 2, 2008)

frankthedm said:


> (. . .) and a LOT of _Major_ brand RPG stockpiles that became stagnant with new editions release.





From what I have been hearing, RPGs are such a small part of their overall business that it hardly figures in.  Woodfield has what is left of the chain's GW stock (figs and books) and there is more RPG stuff left at Woodfield and Yorktown than downtown.  A good amount of 3.5 Eberron books are still available as of yesterday, for those who like the setting, and Exalted and some WoD are in second highest abundance.  There's a good amount of the RPG books previously marked down at Woodfield and the 50% comes off the lowest-already-marked priced, some some books are five bucks or less.  There's a few steals to be had in off-brand systems and in WotC stuff but i9t will likely mostly disappear over the weekend and next week as people find out and snap up the best bargains to complete shelf collections.

For my part, one of my first jobs out of high school was in the Deerbrook Mall where Gamer's Paradise had one of their early stores, though I understand that one closed years ago. They were always as much novelty shop and specialty store as gamestore.  Those looking for a new store should set you sights on Games Plus as it is one of the top ten in the country.


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## El Mahdi (Aug 2, 2008)

Out of curiosity and because of this thread, I did an internet search of the game stores that I frequented in the places I've lived in (I've moved around a bit being in the military).  The first game store I patroned was "Otherworlds" in Cambridge.  I've never seen a better game store since IMO.  Apparently it, and almost all the other small game stores in Cambridge, have gone out of business and not been replaced.  I don't know if having the TSR distribution center for the UK and Europe on the other side of town helped, and then hindered when it was shutdown, but it was an awesome store.

When I was in Korea, there really was no local gaming store (just occasional purchase at the AAFES bookstore when they occasionally stocked game stuff).  I used to make semi-regular TDY's to Okinawa from Korea, which was cool because there was a really good little game store just outside of the gate (don't know if it's there anymore either).  

In Valdosta, GA, the only local game store moved across town and became comics and CCG's only.  There was nothing until a couple of years later, when a guy with a computer store, and an interest in gaming, combined them and opened a pretty good store just outside of the Moody AFB gate.  I think the combination of being a really good custom computer store, along with RPG's, has helped keep him in business.

It's too bad we are losing the small, local game stores.  When I first started playing, my groups trips to "Otherworlds" felt like some kind of magical pilgrimage.  We would try to go at least once a month and just spend hours there, not to mention a good portion of our money (we were all single then).  In total though, about 2/3 of the stores I've frequented are no longer there.  It kind of feels like the ending of an era.


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## JoeGKushner (Aug 2, 2008)

Sad news indeed.

I suspected this when I noticed they'd gotten rid of all the GW stuff.


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## Mark (Aug 3, 2008)

Darrin Drader said:


> The latest estimates I've heard put them around 700.





Where's that info come from, btw?


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## Merlin the Tuna (Aug 3, 2008)

I'm sorry, can someone spell out what the GW stuff is?  I see those letters and think Guild Wars, and that pretty clearly isn't right.


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## Leatherhead (Aug 3, 2008)

Merlin the Tuna said:


> I'm sorry, can someone spell out what the GW stuff is?  I see those letters and think Guild Wars, and that pretty clearly isn't right.




I want to say Games Workshop.


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## CountPopeula (Aug 3, 2008)

Merlin the Tuna said:


> I'm sorry, can someone spell out what the GW stuff is?  I see those letters and think Guild Wars, and that pretty clearly isn't right.




Games Workshop, the biggest name in miniatures wargaming.


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## Merlin the Tuna (Aug 3, 2008)

CountPopeula said:


> Games Workshop, the biggest name in miniatures wargaming.



Ah.  Minis.  Makes enough sense.

Thanks.


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## Mark (Aug 3, 2008)

Merlin the Tuna said:


> I'm sorry, can someone spell out what the GW stuff is?  I see those letters and think Guild Wars, and that pretty clearly isn't right.





Yup, Games Workshop, as has been posted.  I think the Woodfield mall store (the only one of the three with GW stuff) had about 30 books (WH, 40K, LotR), a bunch of dicounted old White Dwarf mags (for those who like the pics and articles), a dozen or so LotR minis boxes, a dozen or so 40K minis boxes, and probably a couple of hundred Warhammer minis boxes.


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## Ogrork the Mighty (Aug 4, 2008)

In some respects this is no different than the mom and pop store going the way of the dodo bird and being replaced by big box stores and online shopping.

As much as I love hobby stores, the people have spoken and the people want large selection at cheap(er) prices. In some respects, that's the American way.

I have a couple friends who opened a hobby shop and within a year they locked the doors and were no longer open to the public. Instead, they focused on their online sales... which were staggering. Their shop was packed from floor to ceiling with boxes and they were shipping like crazy. It just wasn't worth it to staff the store for 8+ hours a day when they could instead work from home and do more in less time. They've been going strong for 6+ years now.

When I see people opening hobby stores today, I just shake my head. Might as well throw your money away. That era is over. It would be like wanting to start up a glam metal band and not understanding why you aren't getting anywhere. That era is past. Embrace change... or get steamrolled by it.

For those interested, my friends' online store is www.theouterreaches.com.


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## Halivar (Aug 4, 2008)

CountPopeula said:


> Games Workshop, the biggest name in miniatures wargaming.



Bah! GW is a toy manufacturer. The real deal in figs is Old Glory! 

My only experience with WH40K was watching a table of teenagers play it from across the hall at our local historical miniature wargaming convention. What's funny is I always put them down, never realizing I'd probably have gotten addicted to it if I'd played it at all. At least, I guess this because ten years later, I play Warmachine.

But, man.... $70 for a TANK???


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## JoelF (Aug 4, 2008)

I have to say that I'm not THAT upset over this.  Sure I frequented their Deerbrook Mall store a long time ago, but I rarely bought from there, since back then, as well as now I felt that it wasn't a very good store.  Sure, it did have lots of stuff, but it was crammed on the shelves, and the employees rarely knew much about their product.  They were also consistently one of the highest priced ways to buy just about anything.

That being said, it is a shame that there will now be a lot fewer places in the Chicago area that a kid can browse through lots of great product and get interested in RPGs, minis, smaller press board and card games, etc.  I'll probably be swinging by the Woodfield location tonight to see if there's anything I want before they're gone.


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## dragonlordofpoondari (Aug 4, 2008)

Darrin Drader said:


> I wonder how long it will be before there are no gaming stores left. The latest estimates I've heard put them around 700. That's not much, and I keep reading about a new one going out of business every week.
> 
> Sad times.




Hopefully this will lighten your spirit a little, Darrin. Game Empire, an amazing game store in San Diego, has done so well that they opened up another one in Pasadena last year.

This is probably in opposition to the trend, but hey ... one more is one more.


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## evilgenius8000 (Aug 5, 2008)

I used to go to the Gamer's Paradise in the Hawthorne Mall in Vernon Hills... Not that it was all that great or anything, but because it was the closest one (truth be told, however, that the Barnes and Noble next door to GP usually had the D&D books I was looking for at a cheaper price  due to my member's discount). Now that it's closed, my friends and I travel to Games Plus in Mount Prospect. It's a terrific store that's got tons and tons of great stuff. The staff there (well, the one guy I talked to) seemed really knowledgable about the industry (unlike Gamer's Paradise, where I asked if they would be carrying Keep on the Shadowfell when it came out, and they had no idea what I was talking about...). 

So, I'd recommend driving to Mt. Prospect if you're not TOO far away... Games Plus was definately worth the 30 minute drive from Lake Forest!


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## mlund (Aug 5, 2008)

Just too keep things in perspective, Cook County has an outrageous cost of doing business, in large part due to abusive practices by the politicians and lawyers the run the place. I mean, there's a *10.25% sales tax*, in addition to ridiculous property, business, and income taxes. At a certain point business naturally shifts to places where politicians and their lackeys don't have quite such a confiscatory attitude towards your private property.

- Marty Lund


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## Merlin the Tuna (Aug 6, 2008)

mlund said:


> Just too keep things in perspective, Cook County has an outrageous cost of doing business, in large part due to abusive practices by the politicians and lawyers the run the place. I mean, there's a *10.25% sales tax*...



Just to be clear, the total tax is 10.25% in some areas when you include state, county, and city taxes.  It's still the highest sales tax in the USA to my knowledge, but the way that sentence was phrased seemed to almost imply that those were county taxes alone.

I'm not attributing malice here, just making sure the situation is clear.


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## Mark (Aug 6, 2008)

Halivar said:


> Bah! GW is a toy manufacturer. The real deal in figs is Old Glory!





I mix em up when the price is right.  The DBM/Field of Glory 25mm Medieval army I am building will feature both Old Glory minis and GW Bretonian bowman.  Army building is too expensive to not grab deals where you can.


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## ronin (Aug 6, 2008)

I was just in the Woodfield Mall location this weekend. I asked if the store was closing and one of the workers told me that the manager of that store was trying to purchase the remaining three locations. Hopefully he'll be able to do so and turn things around.


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## Halivar (Aug 6, 2008)

Mark said:


> I mix em up when the price is right.  The DBM/Field of Glory 25mm Medieval army I am building will feature both Old Glory minis and GW Bretonian bowman.  Army building is too expensive to not grab deals where you can.



Ah, I'm not familiar. I'm used to doing exclusively 15mm Napoleonics, though my gaming group switched en masse to 25mm ancients after I left.

EDIT: Although I have fond memories of Armati and WRG 7th. The best metaphor for 4E and 3.5E I can think of. ;P

EDIT EDIT: Upon reflection, that comparison is highly unfair to 3.5E, which is as rule-intensive as Chutes & Ladders next to 7th.


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## Mark (Aug 6, 2008)

Halivar said:


> Ah, I'm not familiar. I'm used to doing exclusively 15mm Napoleonics, though my gaming group switched en masse to 25mm ancients after I left.





I've stayed away from purchasing ancients and/or 15mm (although I do join in with games my friends run) because I can always get some RPG use out of 25mm Medievals, if all else fails.  In fact, the upcoming CMG MF WARS (Medieval Fantasy Wargame and Rolepaying System, a trimmed down and beefed up 3E/3.5E system) will include rules for large scale battles that will also take advantage of 25mm figs based in what has become semi-standard 60mm wide with varying depths.  Naturally people will be able to use counters or 3D cardboard figs or any number of other solutions but one of my goals has been to integrate RPGing with my favorite style of miniature wargaming.  I've done both since the early seventies and played many systems but have never seen them very successfully married to the point where an RPG can be moving along to where a large pitched battle can break out with interludes of RPGing intermixed.  I think the Grognards and Neo-Grogs are going to find it a very fun system to play.  Hopefully, people who find the CRPGs that feature large scale battles fun but are dissatisfied with what passes for RPGing in a CRPG will find this a excellent game, as well.


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## neceros (Aug 6, 2008)

Gaming Stores have to make sales by other means, like Card Games or board games. Purely selling roleplaying books ends badly.


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## Kzach (Aug 6, 2008)

I don't believe this is a state of the industry problem.

I think it's happening across a lot of industries due to the changing habits of societies invested heavily in multi-media technologies.

People are spending less time shopping at physical stores and more time shopping on the internet. Some businesses aren't affected as much by this, or even benefit, but it most definitely is having a profound impact on the way society works and how people live and shop.

Check out other industries like video rental. Blockbuster, for instance, is trying to diversify into new markets and is slowly closing or downsizing branches all over the place. Starbucks just closed 61 stores in Australia.

RPG's are only one area that are affected by the changes.


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## CountPopeula (Aug 6, 2008)

Halivar said:


> Bah! GW is a toy manufacturer. The real deal in figs is Old Glory!
> 
> My only experience with WH40K was watching a table of teenagers play it from across the hall at our local historical miniature wargaming convention. What's funny is I always put them down, never realizing I'd probably have gotten addicted to it if I'd played it at all. At least, I guess this because ten years later, I play Warmachine.
> 
> But, man.... $70 for a TANK???




Warhammer/40K and Warmachine are very very different, actually. Warmachine is... faster. A lot faster. And a lot cheaper. Ditto for Anima Tactics.

Warhammer prices are insane, even when you get them cheap. $50 for 5 Space Marine Terminators is about the same as 5 Anima minis (MSRP $10, but usually $7-8), but... 5-6 Anima minis makes an entire force, whereas 10 Terminators is about 200 points, and 1500 is average sized.

Warhammer falls into the same category as Anima. A Heavy 'Jack is $25-35, but you only need one or two. $30 for an all-metal unit when you only need 1 or 2 units in a good sized game is one thing.... $30 for a plastic unit when you need 5-6 units is something else entirely.

That's not doing brick and mortar stores any favors, when the industry leader is jacking up prices like crazy. Terminators went from $35 to $50 (for 5) in under 5 years. Of course, GW isn't kind to B&M retailers... or online businesses... I guess when your online store charges full retail and shipping starts at $7 for one mini, well... unfair, borderline illegal pressure tactics are all that you have left.


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## Mark (Aug 7, 2008)

neceros said:


> Gaming Stores have to make sales by other means, like Card Games or board games. Purely selling roleplaying books ends badly.





Gamer's Paradise had a relatively small RPG section.  It was mostly board games and puzzles and novelty stuff.


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## Vigwyn the Unruly (Aug 7, 2008)

It wasn't the taxes. It was the very poor store layout and crappy customer service.

The change to 10% taxes in Chicago is very recent (a month?), and does not apply to any of the many Gamer's Paradise stores that have already gone out of business.


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## kclark (Aug 8, 2008)

It had been a while since I stopped by Gurnee Mills, but both the Gamer's Paradise and the Games Workshop store there were gone.
It was kind of a shock as I used to work at the GW store. Now there isn't really any reason to go to Gurnee Mills anymore.

I agree that Games Plus is a great game store. I just wish it wasn't such a haul to get to Mount Prospect.


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## paradox42 (Aug 8, 2008)

ronin said:


> I was just in the Woodfield Mall location this weekend. I asked if the store was closing and one of the workers told me that the manager of that store was trying to purchase the remaining three locations. Hopefully he'll be able to do so and turn things around.



I hope he can make it happen! I was sad to lose the one in Fox Valley Mall last year, and thought for a while that the Yorktown one had also gone until I went wandering one day and discovered they'd merely moved to the other side of the mall (and upstairs to boot). I will say that of the three (and I have visited all of them at one time or another), the Woodfield location always seemed to be the best-stocked and most heavily trafficked. So maybe that location can survive even if the other two don't.

And Games Plus *is* the best games store in Chicagoland, if not the world, but I live in Aurora. Driving to Mount Prospect is a rather large investment of time and gas, and it's a lot less worth it to me now than it used to be before gas prices were this high (and when I lived in Elmhurst or Lisle, years ago). Seriously, it takes close to an hour to get there even if traffic cooperates on 88/355.


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## Mark (Aug 8, 2008)

Problem is, Games Plus is really only a short ride away from that Woodfield store.  Maybe it speaks to how much gaming happens so closely in the area but it seems strange that if there would be only a couple sizeable gamestores in the Chicagoland area they'd be less than fifteen minutes from one another.


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## frankthedm (Dec 9, 2008)

It seems the manager of the woodfield mall Gamer's Paradise has opened his own store in the woodfield mall using overstock of the old gamer's paradise..







Merlin the Tuna said:


> I'm not attributing malice here, just making sure the situation is clear.



IMHO a 10% sales tax is malignant.


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## Festivus (Dec 9, 2008)

We are facing that same 10% sales tax here in Los Angeles, California.  Actually I think it's going to be 10.5%.


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## Mark (Dec 9, 2008)

frankthedm said:


> It seems the manager of the woodfield mall Gamer's Paradise has opened his own store in the woodfield mall using overstock of the old gamer's paradise...





From what I saw at all three of the stores that reminded open to the bitter end (Woodfield, Yorktown and Water Tower), most of what little was left was sold off during the final week at 90% off.  What reminded was hardly worth using core stock for a new store, and mostly non-gaming, novelty goods.  I'm guessing this is new stock mostly, more up to date and more focused.  I'll have to check it out now that I know he is open.


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## Sir Brennen (Dec 9, 2008)

The space Gamer's Paradise occupied at Yorktown is now occupied by another game store (don't recall the name). A lot of stock, my guess is that it's some of the GP stuff. Though the GP stores were mostly empty by the end, might they have had a warehouse somewhere?  Definitely a game store as opposed to a toy store, just like GP, though they don't carry any RPG product now.


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## dalamar666 (Dec 9, 2008)

paradox42 said:


> Driving to Mount Prospect is a rather large investment of time and gas, and it's a lot less worth it to me now than it used to be before gas prices were this high (and when I lived in Elmhurst or Lisle, years ago). Seriously, it takes close to an hour to get there even if traffic cooperates on 88/355.




No kidding I live right around the corner from Fox Valley Mall but my gaming group is out of North Shore Comics in Northbrook When Gas whas High I maybe gamed Once a month. Now that Gas is down maybe I'll get up there More.

I have fond memories of Games days at the Deerbrook Mall and Arlignton Heights locatations.  Ahh good times


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## AllisterH (Dec 9, 2008)

Kzach said:


> Check out other industries like video rental. Blockbuster, for instance, is trying to diversify into new markets and is slowly closing or downsizing branches all over the place. Starbucks just closed 61 stores in Australia.
> 
> RPG's are only one area that are affected by the changes.




I don't think Starbucks is affected by changing technology though but I see your point...

Another example, in one time in Canada, there was a chain of stores called "SAM the RECORD MAN". It used to be the biggest record/tape retailer in Canada and the rise of the internet killed it off.

Really, it's a changing world...


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## dnddays (Dec 10, 2008)

GW and its Warhammer stuff is ridiculously expensive and virtually every shop in Louisiana that has invested in those products has gone under.  Maybe it's the area I live in, maybe it's a string of doofuses with bad business sense, maybe it's a Warhammer curse, maybe it's because every Warhammer player I know is a complete asshat and drives customers away, maybe all of the above, but whatever the case it doesn't surprise me when a shop that sells GW's boutique-priced merchandise goes under.  I hate Warhammer and its spin-offs with a passion.


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## Darrin Drader (Dec 10, 2008)

frankthedm said:


> It seems the manager of the woodfield mall Gamer's Paradise has opened his own store in the woodfield mall using overstock of the old gamer's paradise.




So nature abhors a vacuum. Personally, I suspect that game stores will always be there. In the middle of this massive recession, there's a new one opening up in Couer d'Alene, ID, and apparently it's doing quite well.


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## Melba Toast (Dec 10, 2008)

Meh.

I knew Gamer's Paradise from their Landmark Century Centre location. It was the only game store in all of Chicago that I could point to, but I never went there because it had a terrible selection.

The majority of their stock was party and drinking games. They didn't cultivate any gamer community. If anything, they outright rejected it. I can't recall any RPG selection and they didn't seem to have a clue about the existence of Euro-games: if they carried Settler's, it was exotic and new. 

Chicago is a city packed with special-interest boutique stores. There's probably a hundred stores in Chicago for "your pampered pet". But GP was the only game store in town and they failed. As I see it, Gamer's Paradise had a cornered market in one of the world's biggest marketplaces, and they killed the business themselves.

In other worlds... screw'em.


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## Blessed1972 (Nov 3, 2010)

*Theres alot more to this story.*

Greetings. 

I was looking for info on some old stomping grounds and came across this site. Pretty cool and I look forward to seeing alot more of it. But back to the topic at hand.

There is alot more than just sales tax, rent, and other outgoing payments. Its also called supporting the community. You see when your name says Gamers Paradise and you do everything in your power to convince people otherwise, what else do you expect. The people making the real decisions had no idea what they were doing nor did they seem interested in fostering the local gaming community at all. It seemed that they had in the words of Willy Wonka "A magical golden ticket" but just like some of the bratty kids in that classic movie (the original) they wanted something else and lost it all. 

When you looked at their selection it seemed like, especially to me and I used to work there, like they wanted to be a Spencer Gifts instead of Gamers Paradise. Instead of focusing on games, whether board, chess, minatures, cards, or RPG, they were focusing on trendy items that quite honestly I wanted to smack the people who were buying this useless crap. Instead of having a place where gamers felt welcomed they wanted to carry blacklight items, gag items, adult videos and toys. The owners wife was one of the reasons why a store like this closed. She made alot of poor decisions and she was not alone. 

I used to ask why not try to get demos and tournys going and I kept getting the cold shoulder from upper levels. It seemed like the owners did not want to cultivate the local gaming community. A good example was the pokemon card craze. Parents would spend more money if there was a place where the kids could play in a tourney but like alot of other opportunities this was wasted as well.

It does not help when alot of your RPG companies are suffering as well, but if there was more EVENTS that showcased the different games I think there might have been a different chain of events.

They spent more money on useless product lines like beenie babies and plush animals that looking at what people were looking for, a game store that was top knotch. I remember I went to a gamer convention here in the chicagoland area, I think it was called the Chicago Gamers Conclave, over the thanksgiving weekend and I worked it running Battlefleet Gothic. I remember talking to people and when they found out I worked at Gamers they asked me how it felt to work for a joke in the gamer community. The reputation of the company had alot to do with it.

There were plenty of people who really wanted to make it work and some of them were really knowledgable, but alot of the workers were not. Its a shame that they closed because they had a golden opportunity that they let slip through their hands. Not to mention that I felt there were too many stores to close.


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## Holy Bovine (Nov 3, 2010)

Blessed1972 said:


> Greetings.
> 
> I was looking for info on some old stomping grounds and came across this site. Pretty cool and I look forward to seeing alot more of it. But back to the topic at hand.
> _snip_.




So you create and account and your first post necro's a two year dead thread about a game store that went out of business 2 years ago?  Interesting choice...


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## Blessed1972 (Nov 3, 2010)

You know theres enough a-holes in the world. No need to to come off with an attitude.


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## Holy Bovine (Nov 3, 2010)

Blessed1972 said:


> You know theres enough a-holes in the world. No need to to come off with an attitude.




Oh there's _someone_ with an attitude in this thread.


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## Piratecat (Nov 3, 2010)

Holy Bovine said:


> So you create and account and your first post necro's a two year dead thread about a game store that went out of business 2 years ago?  Interesting choice...



*Why is there anything wrong with this? And even if there was, why are you giving a new member attitude instead of reporting something that might be a problematic post? Please don't do this in the future.

Blessed, welcome to the site, but please be sure to read the Rules. We ask that people not insult and be jerks to one another. You can report problematic posts using the tiny "!" at the bottom left of every post.*


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