# Archer Bard Build Help



## RockLAX (Jan 14, 2009)

Since I'm new and can't figure out how to search the darn forums I posted...Sorry.

Anyways my character died last adventure and I need to come up with something new for this weekend.  I've always been intrigued by bards but have never gotten the courage to play one.  That being said I was leaning towards some sort of archer bard type since it seems like it would be difficult at best to do a melee build.

So...

He can be lv 7.  I don't care too much about race, nothing too crazy though.  As for books and feats I can pretty much use anything as long as I can reproduce it to the DM.  We have UA, Complete Ad, and stuff like that.  I want to be able to be a decent bard out of combat but also want to be able to support the party with ranged attacks, we currently DO NOT have any ranged attacks in our party.

Thanks for any help.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 14, 2009)

Welcome to ENWorld!

As a Bard Archer, you're going to want the same stuff as any other archer -- Point Blank, Precise, and Rapid Shot feats are essential.  Manyshot, Greater Manyshot (in the psionics feat section of The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org even though it's a general feat), and Improved Rapid Shot (CWarrior) -- are icing.  Not required, but nice to have.

Your medium BAB means you have to wait longer than normal for them, but as soon as you have BAB +6, try to get Woddlands Archer tactical feat (Races of the Wild, if you have it) and Improved Presice Shot (PHB) when you have the BAB for it.

You'll likely just be standing mostly still and full attacking, trying to add your inspire courage bonuses on as many attacks as possible.  So, this thread may be useful for you: http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/185372-inspire-courage-optimization.html
The Words of Creation one puts hard roleplaying restrictions on you and might e considered too powerful by a DM, so you might want ot avoid that route.  Any of the other items in that thread you have access to, by all means check out.  I'm not sure Bow of Songs is that important to a Bard Archer (while as Crystal Echoblade of Harmonizing should be a required pick up for any melee bard).


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## RockLAX (Jan 14, 2009)

I was thinking about going...

Bard 4
Fighter or Ranger 3

That way I have the 6 BAB

With a human that would give me 4 feats then?


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## Shin Okada (Jan 14, 2009)

Hmm .. Bard Archer.

It is pity that 3.5e bard does not have Greater Magic Weapon in their spell list.

Still there are several lower-level spells which help your archery.

Guiding Light (L1, Spell Compendium)
Targeting Ray (L1, Spell Compendium)
Cat's Grace (L2, PHB)
Heroism (L2, PHB)
Sonic Weapon (L2, Spell Compendium)
Haste (L3, PHB)

Also, consider learning See Invisibility (L3, PHB). If you can't see the foe, you can't shoot it.

For the same reason, maybe you should choose some race with Low-Light Vision. Usually, Low-Light is better than Dark Vision for archers. Unfortunately, Low-Light Vision spell is not in Bard spell list.


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## Shin Okada (Jan 14, 2009)

If you dare to multi-class, Bard 3/Paladin 4 with Devoted Performer feat (Comp Adventurer) can be another interesting option. You can maximize the benefit from your high CHA and learn Divine Might feat (Comp Warrior) for increasing damages of your arrows.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 14, 2009)

RockLAX said:


> I was thinking about going...
> 
> Bard 4
> Fighter or Ranger 3
> ...




No, that's pointless.  You get feats at every third level.  If you take any Bard levels at all, you won't have BAB +6 by level 6, and straight Bard will give you +6 in time for the 9th level feat.  You could still do that for more feats, but it won't get you to BAB +6 fast enough to matter for the many archer feats that require it.

To answer your question, as a level 7 human, you have 4 feats (1,1,3,6) and Fighter 3 would add 2 (F1,F2) --side note: to paraphrase Thog, "Fighter 3 is a dumb level" -- or Ranger 3 gives you Rapid Shot, Endurance, and Track.



Shin Okada said:


> If you dare to multi-class, Bard 3/Paladin 4 with Devoted Performer feat (Comp Adventurer) can be another interesting option. You can maximize the benefit from your high CHA and learn Divine Might feat (Comp Warrior) for increasing damages of your arrows.




I forgot the requirements for devoted performer, but generally you wouldn't want to dip into Paladin past level 3.  Maybe 2, but I like fear immunity.


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## Herzog (Jan 14, 2009)

1. Do NOT take a Strength lower than 10. Strength bonus does not normally add to ranged attacks, but strength penalty DOES substract! (learned that the hard way...)
2. If you have access to Spell Compendium, get Improvisation at spell lvl 3. (adding luck bonuses to your attack and damage....)
3. Get Melodic Casting (complete mage). It allows you to cast spells while performing, and allows you to use Perform instead of Concentration checks (freeing up skill points).
4. Decide what you like about this idea. Are you taking Bard for the spells? for the armor? for the bardic music? If it is anything but the bardic music, and you are thinking about multiclassing anyway, you might be better of with a sorcerer/ranger or sorcerer/rogue. 


Last but not least: I myself am in the process of building/retraining a bard archer. (yes, the one with Str < 10 )

I've decided to go with Bard 8/Rogue 2/Unseen Seer 10. (CM) (but you can probably get it with only bard 4 or 5)

The nice thing about switching to unseen seer is that you have sneak attack and spell casting progression, and in addition get to add some divination spells to your spells known.

Most important one is: Sniper's Shot (Spell Compendium). It allows you to sneak attack at unlimited range for one round.

Combine that with DeadEye Shot (PH2) and you will be able to ranged sneak attack at any distance every round (as long as you have first level spells)

To be more flexible in your spellcasting, you might consider Lyric Spell (which allows you to sacrifice bardic music uses to cast spells) or Versatile Spellcaster (which allows you to use two lower level spell slots to cast a higher level spell).

However, also make up your mind where your focus lies. Are you a caster/supporter with some ranged combat?
Or a ranged combatant that can cast some spells?
Put a focus on the appropriate feats to support that, because I'm finding that I'm severily lacking in feats to get everything I would like...


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## Shin Okada (Jan 14, 2009)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> I forgot the requirements for devoted performer, but generally you wouldn't want to dip into Paladin past level 3.  Maybe 2, but I like fear immunity.




I suggested Paladin 4 for gaining Turn Undead ability. Thus, Divine feats (Divine Might, specifically).


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## RockLAX (Jan 14, 2009)

Honestly I want the bard for roleplaying reasons only, we don't really have any min/maxers in our group and do emphasize roleplaying. Some adventures will go as far to only have 1 combat per time. The spell casting is just icing on the cake. I guess if I had to prioritize why I am playing it would look like this.

Bard roleplaying
archer ability
inspire courage
spell casting

One reason I was thinking bard/ranger was for character concept only. Some backwoods traveler type who pops out of the woods every now and then into civilization. I was thinking some self reliant explorer type character who rolls into town and plays some music, charms some ladies, and then is off again on the next adventure. All the while being able to somewhat survive and fight alone.

**EDIT**
I'm actually thinking about using the Half-Satyr template from a Dragon Mag that would really pull the bard/ranger idea together.  I'm sure people here won't appreciate it since it isn't the ultimate min/maxer but I'm starting to really like the character concept.

+2 Natural Armor
Low light vision
+2 racial Hide, Move, Listen, Spot, and any Perform
Disappointing that there is no stat increases though...


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## blargney the second (Jan 15, 2009)

Consider going with bard/warblade or bard/crusader.  If you take the Song of the White Raven feat, those classes stack for determining how powerful your inspire courage is.

You'll also find Dragonfire Inspiration in Dragon Magic.  It gives you an alternate usage for inspire courage by changing it into bonus damage dice.  I've seen it used to great effect.

As for other feats, Point Blank Shot and Rapid Shot are fantastic with your built-in sources of bonus damage.  Precise Shot is good as well, but remember that you can spoof it using the Precise weapon enhancement in Magic Item Compendium, and it can go on ammo.
-blarg


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## RockLAX (Jan 15, 2009)

Does anyone have links or can send me info on Crusader or Warblade, I don't have access to the Book of Nine Swords?

Thanks.


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## Shin Okada (Jan 15, 2009)

You may also better check　War Chanter (Complete Warrior) and Abjurant Champion (Complete Mage). Both of them are martial prestige classes which can be advanced from Bard.


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## Runestar (Jan 15, 2009)

Wotc has an article on bard archetypes, including a bard archer.

Bardic Knowledge: Wide World of Bards

I am not sure just how optimized it is, though it could serve as inspiration...


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## almagest (Jan 16, 2009)

RockLAX said:


> Honestly I want the bard for roleplaying reasons only, we don't really have any min/maxers in our group and do emphasize roleplaying. Some adventures will go as far to only have 1 combat per time. The spell casting is just icing on the cake. I guess if I had to prioritize why I am playing it would look like this.
> 
> Bard roleplaying
> archer ability
> ...



You know, you could just play a forest bard, who wears green/brown, hides/moves silently, uses a bow, and uses his high charisma to befriend animals.  There's probably a sourcebook somewhere that outlines a nature-oriented bard, or you could certainly homebrew something with your DM.  Classes are not roleplaying archetypes; you don't have to multiclass or play things you don't want to just to fit a concept.


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## blargney the second (Jan 16, 2009)

I don't why I didn't think of this sooner: Unearthed Arcana's Savage Bard variant.
-blarg


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## Shin Okada (Jan 16, 2009)

If you start at ECL 7 and monster races are allowed, how about playing a Centaur Bard? You can start from a Centaur Bard 1 and then just leveling up as a pure bard or multi-class in ranger later (favored class).

The race is of wild and forest. Has high strength, high dex, and can use large composite longbow (they have racial proficiency so you don't need to take a feat for it). Fast, too.

Or, maybe you should better check Catfolk in Races of Wild. IMHO that is one of the best LA+1 race.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 16, 2009)

blargney the second said:


> I don't why I didn't think of this sooner: Unearthed Arcana's Savage Bard variant.
> -blarg




I thought of it, but unfortunately it's mostly barbarian-related, even though it doesn't give rage.

For the OP, if you want to multiclass with something nature-oriented, there's also the Wilderness Rogue (UA and d20srd.org) and the Scout (Complete Adventurer).

As for Half-Satyr, does it have a level adjustment?  If not or it's only +1, it seems fine, go for it.  If it's +2 or higher, you shouldn't need to be a min-maxer to realize that's just plain awful.


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## Nifft (Jan 18, 2009)

IMHO one of the most flexible Bard Archers is the Barbarian 1 / Bard.

The speed bonus is great when you need to stay out of reach, and Rage 1/day is quite a nice perk for those times when you simply can't avoid melee. The save is complementary, and the hit points are very nice if you take Barbarian as your first level.

Cheers, -- N


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## Darklone (Jan 27, 2009)

Agreeing with the Penguin. I played and loved bbn/bards several times and most of them did some archery on the way. Warblade1/bardX is great as well as mentioned above with Song of the White Raven. Pal4/Bard16 has great archery options but is pretty lame to start with... even heading for Devoted Performer.

Buy wands of Flame Arrows. That spell has a nicely long duration, so you can use it long before battle.

Str 14 is a good idea, dex doesn't have to be too high (bard has enough bonuses to hit).

Either go for Rapid Shot OR Manyshot. You won't have feats for both (not with Song of the Heart and Song of the White Raven and others you'll want).

Depending on how high your dex can be, Precise Shot isn't necessary.

Haste is the most important spell you need. Or get boots of speed. Or both.

Check out the Magic Item compendium: The most important thing for a bard archer is the Bow of songs. You can add your CHA bonus to damage AND to hit for one round and it costs only one use of bardic music! For a level 7 bard that means:

Just one level to go and you can shoot 4 arrows per round at BAB -2 (Rapid Shot) + dex bonus (should be at least at +3 here )+ cha bonus (+3 or +4)+ inspire bonus (+3 or +4 at that level or even higher). Each of these arrows causes 1d8+Str bonus+ Cha bonus+inspire bonus.

Ever seen a Swift Hunter Scout/Ranger archer with Greater Manyshot? If you have good stats, the bard archer comes close and has many other options.


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## Darklone (Jan 27, 2009)

Wow. My first doublepost since decades.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 28, 2009)

Try Bard/BttlSorc/Ftr.

That way, you can get the feats you want, plus you'll add spells like True Strike and the aforementioned Greater Magic Weapon to your list.

Oorrrrrrrrrrrrrrr...

You go Rogue or Rgr/BttlSorc, take the archery feats you need, pump up the perform skills, emphasize the enchantment type stuff Bards usually do and _call_ yourself a "bard."


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## RockLAX (Feb 3, 2009)

Thanks for the replys all.  I ended up going with a bard 4 / ranger 3 human with the draconic template.  

I got good stats and am competant with the bow.  The party has never had a bard and loved the plusses to hit and damage from my music.

Not the best power gamer but I have a good skill set and a 6 bab so I'm good.  

I also got into roleplaying part too.

Thanks for all the advice again.


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## Darklone (Feb 4, 2009)

Get some scout levels afterwards and the Swift Hunter feat


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