# I miss seeing xp-comments



## Blackbrrd

In the previous version of the forum you could see the xp a post was given and the comments that came with the xp. To me this was a great feature, since it was easy to see if a post was popular - and probably a good read or not. Any chance of getting this feature back?


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## Empirate

Yeah, I miss this feature, too. Bring it back, please!


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## mudbunny

While I liked the comments, far too often for my tastes it was used as a way to jab at people or make snarky comments with less of a likelihood that a moderator would take notice.


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## Empirate

mudbunny said:


> While I liked the comments, far too often for my tastes it was used as a way to jab at people or make snarky comments with less of a likelihood that a moderator would take notice.




I actually only noticed this a couple times. Maybe it depends on the subforum you frequent, but I never saw it as a problem.


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## Morrus

I don't feel that was a major problem. I do feel that XP comments substituted for conversation at times, though.


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## Empirate

Maybe put an option in the Settings menu somewhere, so each user can decide on their own whether they want their conversation pure and undiluted, or with XP comments visible?

 - btw, not criticizing. The job you guys did with bringing this place back to its feet after the hack still amazes me! -


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## jonesy

Empirate said:


> Maybe put an option in the Settings menu somewhere, so each user can decide on their own whether they want their conversation pure and undiluted, or with XP comments visible?



I'd like that.

Or, if you feel it substitutes for conversation change it so that when you give xp the comment must be made as a new post? I don't know if that's even remotely feasible though.


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## mudbunny

Empirate said:


> I actually only noticed this a couple times. Maybe it depends on the subforum you frequent, but I never saw it as a problem.






Morrus said:


> I don't feel that was a major problem. I do feel that XP comments substituted for conversation at times, though.




This may just be a case of me remembering things as worse than they actually were.

*shrug*


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## Umbran

jonesy said:


> Or, if you feel it substitutes for conversation change it so that when you give xp the comment must be made as a new post? I don't know if that's even remotely feasible though.




At that point, I'd prefer taking the "comment" part of it out altogether.  If you want to post, just post.

I wasn't watching to see if XP comments substituted for conversation.  All I know is that it didn't jump to my eye as doing such, but that doesn't mean it wasn't happening.

I did see the occasional jab or snide remark.  I think folks thought that since you couldn't report on the comments themselves individually, we wouldn't notice.  When I saw them, or they got reported, I did my best to go and edit them.  I did have to give out the occasional tempban based on XP comments, even.

The problematic use I myself noted most often was using them to comment on moderation in-thread.  While I like feedback on moderation, and even appreciate the XP-aspect of it, it isn't appropriate for commentary on moderation to be visible in-thread, either as a post or XP-comment.  And I admit I eventually gave up editing those out, because while editing the comments was possible, but a pain in the rear-end.

If they aren't visible in-thread, I don't have to worry about that last case.


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## jonesy

Umbran said:


> The problematic use I myself noted most often was using them to comment on moderation in-thread.  While I like feedback on moderation, it isn't appropriate for it to be visible in-thread, either as a post or XP-comment.  And I admit I eventually gave up editing those out, because while editing the comments was possible, but a pain in the rear-end.



Yeah, I can see how that would be a pretty big negative. Didn't occur to me at all.


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## Umbran

jonesy said:


> Yeah, I can see how that would be a pretty big negative. Didn't occur to me at all.




If they were as easy to edit as posts, I'd have no problem with them.  But we had to go into a user's profile (the recipient's, not the giver's) to edit, which is handled through a completely different interface than the one we use for posts - so a separate login and several more clicks to get through the process.

Which is not to say that we shouldn't show comments.  I merely speak to my own experience with them, 'cause we are chatting and all.  Maybe other solutions will come to mind.

For example, if there's a way to turn off showing XP comments we receive, maybe mods and admins should turn them off as a general policy.  Or maybe folks feel that while commenting on moderation in-thread is generally a bad thing, maybe a simple "Thanks" to a mod when they do step in and folks like how it was handled is acceptable?  I'm not a fan of that last last - but I'm probably the biggest stickler on the staff.


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## Mark CMG

Umbran said:


> At that point, I'd prefer taking the "comment" part of it out altogether.  If you want to post, just post.





Simple posrep with no commenting would solve many problems, it seems.  If someone feels their interest in a post is too complex to merely posrep it (like they agree with one part but maybe not another), then they probably should be posting a reply anyway.


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## jonesy

Something else that just came to me: correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it also possible to give xp comments to posts in locked threads? I seem to remember one where it was just people having fun with food or something, but if it wouldn't be good natured it could be a really nasty thing for the mods to deal with.


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## Blackbrrd

Morrus said:


> I don't feel that was a major problem. I do feel that XP comments substituted for conversation at times, though.



After I read a post I usually want to:


nothing
want to give xp (and spot high xp posts)
want to give xp and comment on why (and see other peoples comments)
want to reply
Currently I can only go with option 1. or 4. Just adding a post to say I liked another post feels like I am cluttering up a thread, especially if the activity is heavy.

XP comments can sometimes be used instead of a full post, but mostly, that will just reduce the number of "I agree" posts.


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## Morrus

Blackbrrd said:


> After I read a post I usually want to:
> 
> 
> nothing
> want to give xp (and spot high xp posts)
> want to give xp and comment on why (and see other peoples comments)
> want to reply
> Currently I can only go with option 1. or 4. Just adding a post to say I liked another post feels like I am cluttering up a thread, especially if the activity is heavy.
> 
> XP comments can sometimes be used instead of a full post, but mostly, that will just reduce the number of "I agree" posts.




You can do 2. too.


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## Blackbrrd

Morrus said:


> You can do 2.[want to give xp (and spot high xp posts)] too.




How do I spot high xp posts?


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## Morrus

Blackbrrd said:


> How do I spot high xp posts?




The give XP part.


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## Rabulias

Morrus said:


> The give XP part.




I think he means how does he recognize/identify posts that have garnered many XP from other users. My attention was often drawn to posts with many XP comments...


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## Morrus

Rabulias said:


> I think he means how does he recognize posts that have garnered many XP from other users. My attention was often drawn to posts with many XP comments...




I know what he meant.  He can't.  I was clarifiying that my post referred to his expressed desire to be able to give XP, not to his desire to spot high earning posts.


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## JamesonCourage

Blackbrrd said:


> After I read a post I usually want to:
> 
> 
> nothing
> want to give xp (and spot high xp posts)
> want to give xp and comment on why (and see other peoples comments)
> want to reply
> Currently I can only go with option 1. or 4. Just adding a post to say I liked another post feels like I am cluttering up a thread, especially if the activity is heavy.
> 
> XP comments can sometimes be used instead of a full post, but mostly, that will just reduce the number of "I agree" posts.



I'd leave this in a visible XP comment, if I could, but I can't, so here is what I'd like to add (and did XP him with):

"Agreed."

Not sure it's worth a whole post. Chiming in to say I miss the visible comments, too.


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## Nikosandros

So, we've seen some debate about this issue, but what's the official stance? Will XP comments be made visible again at some future point or has it been decided not to?


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## Morrus

Nikosandros said:


> So, we've seen some debate about this issue, but what's the official stance?




There is no official stance. There's just me, who is so busy with all the other stuff I have to rebuild around here that I'm not even going to _think_ about it for a long time yet, let alone decide anything!


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## Nikosandros

Yes, I know that it's just you...   it was a tongue in cheek way of asking if you had figured out what you want to do about this.


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## Orius

It was a good way of agreeing with a poster instead of making a post that had little more to say than, "I agree".  I'd like to see it return as well.


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## SkidAce

It put relevant comments in the relevant post, instead of 4 pages later.  I realize you can reply with quote, but sometimes that breaks the train of thought the thread has developed for a simple short, "I agree and "xxx" is true also!" type replies.


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## Jeff Carlsen

XP with comments shown in a post is the single greatest advancement in web forums since signatures, and probably more useful. It gives users the ability to visibly reward someone for contributing to the conversation with a short comment to make it personal.

When I get a notification, a post quote comes with a sense of dread. A risk of hostility. But an XP comment always made me happy.


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## Mishihari Lord

Sure there are pluses and minuses, but the bottom line for me is that this site was simply more fun to read and participate in with inline xp comments.


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## billd91

At this point, I'd probably just rather not see XP comments. Let them be, effectively, a private note between the XP giver and the receiver. Then they shouldn't need to be moderated. I wouldn't mind seeing the XP count on a post, though.


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## Ahnehnois

Jeff Carlsen said:


> When I get a notification, a post quote comes with a sense of dread. A risk of hostility.



That's a shame.

Then again, I hear you.


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## Jeff Carlsen

Ahnehnois said:


> That's a shame.
> 
> Then again, I hear you.




Yeah, it isn't that people are hostile. Just that debate naturally feels aggressive.


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## hbarsquared

I would also be happy to see xp comments.

At the least, I'd like to be able to tell how much xp has been given to particular posts, if not the associated comments.

I'm down for a "Turn XP Comments On/Off" button, much like that for Signatures, in Settings.

Either way, Morrus, I'm happy with waiting.  Keep up all the good work on the important stuff!


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## Tanstaafl_au

Orius said:


> It was a good way of agreeing with a poster instead of making a post that had little more to say than, "I agree".  I'd like to see it return as well.




I agree. I also -feel- XP comments are more like giving XP in a visible manner than the reputation button.


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## LightPhoenix

I don't have a problem with the visible representation of giving experience, although I prefer how it is currently (I can bore with the detailed reasoning if someone really wants).

What I do have a problem with is comments that are basically "Me too!" posts that don't add any value to discussion.  The whole XP comment system especially lends itself to that style of comment.  If the comments don't contribute anything, there's no real point to showing them.  I think *Mark CMG* has the right idea as a compromise; show the users who gave experience, but not the comments.


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## Jeff Carlsen

LightPhoenix said:


> What I do have a problem with is comments that are basically "Me too!" posts that don't add any value to discussion.  The whole XP comment system especially lends itself to that style of comment.  If the comments don't contribute anything, there's no real point to showing them.  I think *Mark CMG* has the right idea as a compromise; show the users who gave experience, but not the comments.




I see that as an advantage of showing the comments. It's a place for the "Me too!" comments that is visible, but not disruptive to the flow of the conversation.


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## Starfox

I miss the visible Xp posts a lot, both making them, reading them, and getting them. I feel this has much higher priority than most other restoration efforts. I agree this was the single best new feature in a long, long time. Possibly the best new feature ever.

If they were a bother to edit at admin, I see several options:

* Less prickly admins. 
* Make it easier to edit them 
* Add an option for members not to display Xp comments to their posts
* An option for readers not to see any posted Xp comments
* Never display the Xp posts of an ignored user, the system will not accept Xp from an ignored user to your posts
* Add an option to make individual Xp comments invisible, accessible both to admins and to the poster who was commented

Of curse, all of this entails more work. But as upgrades go, I feel this one is very much worth the effort.


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## Starfox

One of the main reasons I like this is that I can give a short reply top an early post in a long thread without getting into post necromancy. The main thrust of the thread might have gone elsewhere entirely, but I can still post a minor comment on an early post without derailing the discussion. I can even add Xp to years-old threads. The author will be notified, but the thread is not revived.

Another use is the "I agree" post noted above. I can quote the specific part I agree with.

It can also be used to avoid threadjack while still leaving a comment. Say I come up with a tangential idea, or like something in a post that is not strictly relevant to the discussion at hand - I can use Xp comments to post this in an unobtrusive way.

It encourages the handing out of Xp. Without Xp comments, there is not much point to having Xp at all. And we all like Xp, right? I know I do.

About the only part I disagreed with the old system was the repeat Xp limiter, that I felt was a bit too tight. I agree there should be a limit, but I feel it should have been less limiting. Maybe make it a time limit - such as no repeat within 3 hours. Should prevent spam without being a hindrance.

I sometimes feel the need for anti-xp, handing out small demerits to a post in a similar way. But on second though I don't think this would be a good feature - too much potential for bitterness and infighting. And I suppose this ties in with the abuses people have noticed above - misusing Xp comments to give snide remarks is just that, a misuse.


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## Libramarian

LightPhoenix said:


> I don't have a problem with the visible representation of giving experience, although I prefer how it is currently (I can bore with the detailed reasoning if someone really wants).




I would like to hear your reasoning.


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## Lwaxy

I definitely want the comments visible again, yeah.


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## JamesonCourage

Lwaxy said:


> I definitely want the comments visible again, yeah.



They aren't visible yet, but to everyone else: I wrote "agreed" in an XP comment.


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## freyar

I can't say I have much of an opinion one way or the other, but it seems to me like XP and post comments are really logically different things.  It seemed like there were sometimes comments that I assume granted XP but didn't necessarily seem to agree with the post that strongly (if at all).


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## Alaxk Knight of Galt

I too would like to see XP on posts come back.  I think it adds value to the site by



Highlighting posts that the community thought was interesting, insightful, or humorous.
Encouraging me (and I'm sure others) to strive to make every post I add XP worthy.
Allow a user to publicly praise a good post without making a new post to simply praise it.

Any feature brings the opportunity to misuse it and those who choose to do that should suffer the wrath of the mods.  Fear of misuse should not be a reason to remove (or fail to implement) the system.  

The public XP system added to my enjoyment of the site and I hope it returns.


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## Starfox

freyar said:


> I can't say I have much of an opinion one way or the other, but it seems to me like XP and post comments are really logically different things.  It seemed like there were sometimes comments that I assume granted XP but didn't necessarily seem to agree with the post that strongly (if at all).




Post comments that are not related to xp could quickly grow into mini-threads themselves. While this is doable, a threaded forum is generally more confusing than it is worth. By linking comments to xp, you give an incentive to keep comments short and positive and avoids comment arguments. If you want to argue, you have to do so in a separate post. I find that this worked well in the old forum.


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## steeldragons

Alaxk Knight of Galt said:


> I too would like to see XP on posts come back.  I think it adds value to the site by
> 
> 
> 
> Highlighting posts that the community thought was interesting, insightful, or humorous.
> Encouraging me (and I'm sure others) to strive to make every post I add XP worthy.
> Allow a user to publicly praise a good post without making a new post to simply praise it.
> 
> Any feature brings the opportunity to misuse it and those who choose to do that should suffer the wrath of the mods.  Fear of misuse should not be a reason to remove (or fail to implement) the system.
> 
> The public XP system added to my enjoyment of the site and I hope it returns.




All of this x2. Hope it finds its way back eventually.


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## Dwimmerlied

I wonder... Do people still bother to award xp when they aren't visible? Are they awarded at a lower rate? Or not at all?


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## Dannyalcatraz

I know I still do.


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## Starfox

I do, to keep the habit going. But yeah, I do so less and less.


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## Rune

I still do so, but a lot less.  And I've _received_ a lot less, but that may or may not be related (no way to know, really).


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## steeldragons

Same here. I don't think my, personal, "output" has decreased...but definitely receiving less.


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## JamesonCourage

I give XP out less than I used to, and my XP income has dropped to dangerously low levels. I'm currently running on my emergency XP, and I might have to dip into my retirement fund soon...


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## Ranes

Starfox said:


> Post comments that are not related to xp could quickly grow into mini-threads themselves. While this is doable, a threaded forum is generally more confusing than it is worth. By linking comments to xp, you give an incentive to keep comments short and positive and avoids comment arguments. If you want to argue, you have to do so in a separate post. I find that this worked well in the old forum.




All true. Good points. But I still preferred seeing comments. I think the good outweighed the bad.

(But I'm going to XP you for a valid point anyway.)


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## Dannyalcatraz

While we're at it, I'd love to be able to see the titles linked to XP again.


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## Starfox

Ranes said:


> All true. Good points. But I still preferred seeing comments. I think the good outweighed the bad.




So do I. Just trying to keep the discussion informative.


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## JamesonCourage

Dannyalcatraz said:


> While we're at it, I'd love to be able to see the titles linked to XP again.



Aren't they? If I hold my cursor over your XP (the green bars above your picture icon), it says "Ogremoch, Elemental Prince of Evil (Lvl 23)".

I'd prefer that I didn't have to highlight it, though, if that's what you mean. I know XP is still a low priority, I just have this sinking suspicion that it's a "we're not changing it back" thing, rather than a "when we get around to it" thing.


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## Dannyalcatraz

That doesn't work with my tablet- maybe if I used Tapatalk or whatever.

IOW, yeah, I just want it as a displayed line.


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## jonesy

Dannyalcatraz said:


> That doesn't work with my tablet- maybe if I used Tapatalk or whatever.
> 
> IOW, yeah, I just want it as a displayed line.



Out of curiosity, do you see on your tablet any of the hover texts, or is the xp line the only one that doesn't show up? Like for instance, do you get the hover text for your avatar picture?


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## Dannyalcatraz

I only get a prompt asking if I want to copy, save, open in a new tab, etc.- nothing special.  I guess that function doesn't work with the iPad's version of Safari.  Or maybe if I use Tapatalk (or whatever its called).


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## Empirate

I don't know if it's the quality of my posts, the relative rarity with which I get around to posting here, or other factors, but I seem to rake in much less XP lately. Might be due to people not being that "into" giving XP anymore, since there's nothing indicating you've done so. Could also be that I'm simply not as active/helpful/funny as I used to be...


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## Dannyalcatraz

Or you're in a slump.

But I really do think things have tailed off a bit since the comments became invisible.  You know what they say: out of sight, out of mind.


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## Empirate

That's my impression. Not to say that I _haven't_ been less active/helpful/funny than I used to be, of course... also not to say that I need the XP to feel good about posting. It just added a certain incentive to create a good post, knowing that everybody's gonna see how awesome people think that post actually is.


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## delericho

Yep. Since XP became invisible, I've been both receiving and giving less than previously. There really doesn't seem much point.


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## Starfox

delericho said:


> Yep. Since XP became invisible, I've been both receiving and giving less than previously. There really doesn't seem much point.




I've been seriously trying to keep my Xp handouts up, but still hoping the feature comes back.


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## Jeff Carlsen

jonesy said:


> Out of curiosity, do you see on your tablet any of the hover texts, or is the xp line the only one that doesn't show up? Like for instance, do you get the hover text for your avatar picture?




Tablets or phones won't ever see something that depends on a hover state.


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## jonesy

Can the mods still see the xp comments that people make? Or are they now like an entirely private message?


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## Lwaxy

Entirely private.


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## Scott DeWar

I miss that dice roller.


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## Alarian

Yea, I have to admit, this is one of the features I miss the most from the old boards.  I really liked both reading and leaving comments on good posts.  Now there's really no incentive to, no one will ever know you commented.  I haven't given exp in a long time because of it.


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## Scott DeWar

Alarian said:


> Y I haven't given exp in a long time because of it.



 I have even burned out on giving EGG his dues!


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## Lwaxy

Same


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## Empirate

Yeah, XP giving has been down for me, too. Too bad, the XP feature may still be included, but it doesn't seem to be doing that much anymore. I really, really liked that about ENWorld.

Mods, if it's a big deal to fix this, other things must of course be given priority. But if it isn't hard to do, why not start a poll somewhere visible, or something, see if people want XP comments back as bad as the folks in this thread seem to do?


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## SkidAce

While I liked seeing the comments, I don't need to have other people see me give someone a compliment (xp) on a post.


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## JamesonCourage

SkidAce said:


> While I liked seeing the comments, I don't need to have other people see me give someone a compliment (xp) on a post.



I did like my compliments being visible, however, especially with those I had been disagreeing with in the thread. It showed a certain amount of public civility, in my opinion ("these guys disagree, but still handed XP to each other").


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## SkidAce

JamesonCourage said:


> I did like my compliments being visible, however, especially with those I had been disagreeing with in the thread. It showed a certain amount of public civility, in my opinion ("these guys disagree, but still handed XP to each other").




Thats a good point.


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## JamesonCourage

SkidAce said:


> Thats a good point.



You wouldn't have even need to make this post if XP comments were working  (Edit: I don't much like the winky smiley face, apparently)


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## Orius

Scott DeWar said:


> I have even burned out on giving EGG his dues!




*gasp*  That's really bad!


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## Starfox

JamesonCourage said:


> I did like my compliments being visible, however, especially with those I had been disagreeing with in the thread. It showed a certain amount of public civility, in my opinion ("these guys disagree, but still handed XP to each other").




You must spread some Experience Points around before giving it to JamesonCourage again.


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## Wicht

Another vote for bringing it back. I did like being able to agree without thread cluttering, and it was nice to be able to support someone even after disagreeing with them.


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## Morrus

There isn't actually a product for vBulletin 4.x which does that (there was one for 3.x, which was our pre-hack software).  Unless someone releases one somewhere, it's not within my power to bring back without hiring somebody to write it from scratch.


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## Lindeloef

That's sad. Any Info, why they scrapped that feature in an update from 3.x to 4.x?


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## Morrus

Lindeloef said:


> That's sad. Any Info, why they scrapped that feature in an update from 3.x to 4.x?




It was never a feature.  It was a third party product by someone who used to write 3rd party products for 3.x but doesn't for 4.x.


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## Lindeloef

ah okay, thanks for the clarification


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## Empirate

Too bad, but thanks for the explanation!


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## JamesonCourage

Morrus said:


> There isn't actually a product for vBulletin 4.x which does that (there was one for 3.x, which was our pre-hack software).  Unless someone releases one somewhere, it's not within my power to bring back without hiring somebody to write it from scratch.



Another Kickstarter is in order, with perhaps some free (visible?) XP as an incentive...

But yes, thanks for chipping in and letting us know what's up.


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## Scott DeWar

*bumed* thanks MOrrus */bumed*


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## MortalPlague

Aww...  I quite liked that feature as well.  Sorry to see it go.  Here's hoping that someday, somewhere, someone codes a new version.


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## Alzrius

I'm a little surprised that there isn't some third-party out there who's upgraded that add-on to support version 4.X.


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## Mishihari Lord

Thanks for letting us know, Morrus.  That's a real bummer though - that particular feature made the site a lot more fun for me.


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## Morrus

I don't know that it's much consolation, but I did manage to find this:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/reputation_board.php


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## Orius

Interesting


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## Starfox

JamesonCourage said:


> Another Kickstarter is in order, with perhaps some free (visible?) XP as an incentive...




Good idea.


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## Blackbrrd

Great seing xp back on the posts, appreciating it enough to necro this thread.


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## Starfox

Ah, Laughs and Xp show, but we can't give comments with them. Not as good as in days of yore, but better than nothing. Thanks for the alert and the very excusable thread-necro.


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