# Can't find Experience Tables in 3.5 SRD



## dreaded_beast (Feb 5, 2004)

Could someone tell where to look for the Experience Tables (how much experience to give for the CR) in the SRD?

I also couldn't find the tables that tell you how much experience you need to raise a level as well as when feats are given, ability increases, etc.

I have the 3.5 PHB, but not the 3.5 DMG.

Thanks!


----------



## Frostmarrow (Feb 5, 2004)

You won't find that info in the SRD. You need the books formerly known as the Core Rule-books.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Feb 5, 2004)

Since you have the 3.5 PHB, best look there for everything but the Xp/CR tables (which are also in the 3.0 DMG, but not in the SRD).


----------



## Frostmarrow (Feb 5, 2004)

The XP-table is on page 22 along with the frequency of new feats and ability increases.


----------



## Grazzt (Feb 5, 2004)

Yeppers- what Frostmarrow said. Check the PHB for that info. It isnt open content, so won't be found in the SRD.


----------



## Dogbrain (Feb 5, 2004)

Grazzt said:
			
		

> Yeppers- what Frostmarrow said. Check the PHB for that info. It isnt open content, so won't be found in the SRD.





However, since it is not possible to copyright an equation:

Xn=Xc+(Lc*1000), where:

Xn = Experience needed
Xc = Current Experience
Lc = Current Level

Given that an equation is a method and one that is essentially inseperabel from its form, it cannot be copyrighted, and Hasbro has no patent on the above equation.


----------



## Piratecat (Feb 5, 2004)

What they said. The other table you want - how much xp to give for a particular CR - isn't in the SRD, and we ask that it not be replicated here on the message boards.


----------



## Nifft (Feb 5, 2004)

Did 3.0e D&D come out before or after the game Fallout? I think they share an experience table... since Fallout is totally unrelated to D&D, it might be legal to reproduce _that_ experience table.

For encounter XP by CR, I prefer to ignore the books and use this web page calculator:

http://deific.ionichost.com/PAGES/ENCOUNTER_CALCULATOR.HTM

 -- N


----------



## Psion (Feb 5, 2004)

> However, since it is not possible to copyright an equation:
> 
> Xn=Xc+(Lc*1000), where:
> 
> ...




Or, if you want it in closed form so you don't need to know the last level requirement:

Xn = (Lc^2+Lc)*500, remembering that Lc is the current level and Xn is experience needed for the following level.



> Given that an equation is a method and one that is essentially inseperabel from its form, it cannot be copyrighted, and Hasbro has no patent on the above equation.




Some publishers have included an XP table on that premise (quicklink and GreenRonin).

However, whether it is copyrighted or patented may be irrelevant. By using the license, you agree not to use non-open material from cited works without permission, which does not rely on established rules of copyright doctrine, but rather terms of a license.


----------



## tbitonti (Feb 5, 2004)

*Is this really true?*

I would be very cautious of accepting any posting of having any
sort of legal relevance.  You really have to go talk to a lawyer.

That aside:

>> However, whether it is copyrighted or patented may be irrelevant. By
>> using the license, you agree not to use non-open material from cited
>> works without permission, which does not rely on established rules of
>> copyright doctrine, but rather terms of a license.

Is this really true?  A license may state a particular requirement, but
my understanding is that that doesn't make the requirement valid or
enforcable.  In particular, can 'fair-use' of non-open material be prohibited
by a license agreement?

(I find curious the presumption that what is written or apparently agreed to is in
all cases binding.  For example, and I've encountered this in real life, you
might sign a non-compete agreement with a two year term, but, generally
speaking, two years for such an agreement is non-enforcable and non-binding.
I've been told that the accepted reasonable period is more like three to six
months.)

Also, in the examples, the formulas may not be restrictable, but the content
that lays behind them may.  In this case that content being the symbols and
their definitions.

T Bitonti


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Feb 5, 2004)

I still mourn for my tables of fate


----------



## Dogbrain (Feb 5, 2004)

Psion said:
			
		

> However, whether it is copyrighted or patented may be irrelevant. By using the license, you agree not to use non-open material from cited works without permission, which does not rely on established rules of copyright doctrine, but rather terms of a license.




Of course, that begs the question of whether or not unpublished material qualifies as "non-open material from cited works".  Hasbro has never published either equation.  What if, by merest coincidence, this equation maps onto their numbers?

I do not recall "there shall be no reverse engineering" language in the license.


----------



## Azlan (Feb 5, 2004)

Dogbrain said:
			
		

> Given that an equation is a method and one that is essentially inseperabel from its form, it cannot be copyrighted, and Hasbro has no patent on the above equation.




Really? So, I guess that's why Einstein wasn't able to capitalize on that "E=MC2" thing.

Anyway, I find it curious that all the other essentional tables for D&D 3.5 were included in the SRD, but not that one. What was the reasoning behind that?


----------



## DaveMage (Feb 5, 2004)

All the above aside, let's remember that WotC was very generous in making the game rules available for others to use.  (Yes, I know they were convinced to do so in part because it helps their own bottom line, but just look at how many others have benefitted from it.)

They can revoke the license from a particular company if they want to.

Don't mess with 'em.  Play by the rules.

I don't think anyone should try to take advantage of loopholes or other such things as that violates the spirit of the license.

It's a gift.  It should be appreaciated (IMO).


----------



## Plane Sailing (Feb 5, 2004)

dreaded_beast said:
			
		

> Could someone tell where to look for the Experience Tables (how much experience to give for the CR) in the SRD?




In the software forum you can find a 3.5e party experience calculator in excel which I've sorted out that doesn't include the table from the DMG but uses a formula to work out the xps from any given CR and level combination, so you could use that.

Alternatively there are a number of more free form or generic xp options that you could use without impacting your fun one whit.

Cheers


----------



## Altamont Ravenard (Feb 6, 2004)

KaeYoss said:
			
		

> I still mourn for my tables of fate




I grieve as well.

As PlaneSailing has pointed out, there is a mathematical formula to determine how much XP is worth a particular creature. Once you have the formula (or the calculator that uses it) you're pretty much set.

What I hate / don't understand is that there is no formula to reproduce the PC / NPC starting gold tables... :\

AR


----------



## jmucchiello (Feb 6, 2004)

Azlan said:
			
		

> Anyway, I find it curious that all the other essentional tables for D&D 3.5 were included in the SRD, but not that one. What was the reasoning behind that?



WotC wants you to buy the books instead of using the free SRD. The SRD is to make it possible for other companies to make products WotC has no interest in making (because they are low profit). The side effect that players have electronic access to most of the game is just that: a side effect.


----------



## dreaded_beast (Feb 6, 2004)

Well, I took a glance at the 3.5 DMG and compared it with my 3.0 DMG and can't find any difference in the experience tables (from my quick glance, I had to do it at a book store, heh). I've heard on the boards that the experience tables were changed in the 3.5 DMG, but haven't been able to find any.


----------



## Plane Sailing (Feb 7, 2004)

dreaded_beast said:
			
		

> I've heard on the boards that the experience tables were changed in the 3.5 DMG, but haven't been able to find any.




The change is in the diagonal running from level 7 vs CR 2 down to level 19 CR 15.

Cheers


----------

