# Court of Stars: The Prince of Frost



## Kobold Avenger (Apr 24, 2009)

I really liked this article, it was the best written one to come out today.

The fey have received the best improvement in this edition of D&D, and the Prince of Frost article was a very inspiring and creative article.  I'd say that this one is 10 times better than that uninspiring article on Mual-Tar.  There's plenty of story possibilities and plenty of hooks in this article.

It almost makes me want to have a campaign about the machinations of the fey courts.


----------



## Jack99 (Apr 24, 2009)

Total nerd-gasm with awesomesauce and cherries on top. (I liked it a lot too)


----------



## arscott (Apr 24, 2009)

Flavor-wise excellent (Written by Keith Baker, so that's par for the course).  Tale of tragedy that's perfect for a BBEG fey villian.  I'm already inspired to submit my own Court of Stars pitch.

From a mechanical standpoint, the Sisters of Lament are handled particularly well:

The sisters of lament are two banshee-like henchmen of the Prince of Frost.  They're presented as a Level 24 elite soldier and striker, so they make a great encounter on their own.

However, to go along with the Prince of Frost (A level 31 solo), they also present level 30 minion versions of the sisters with distilled versions of their elite-incarnation powers, a new power they can use in tandem, and a mechanism that allows them to respawn while the Prince of Frost is still alive.  This seems like a great mechanism for Big Boss plus Minions.


----------



## Nightson (Apr 24, 2009)

Overall it was wonderful.

Two nitpicks, first the two pieces of art on the prince are totally inconsistent, barely in the same ballpark inconsistent, secondly the Prince's statblock refrences something that doesn't exist "cold wrath"

Also, this article totally wrecks total havok on the flavor I was using for the feywild which had a lot of conflict between the summer and winter fey, and the article even said that only young and foolish fey fight like this!  Of course by the laws on the internet, I now have a vendetta against Keith Baker.  For my next campaign I shall blow up Eberron.


----------



## Starfox (Apr 24, 2009)

And the triumph of cold continues...


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 24, 2009)

Good article.



Nightson said:


> secondly the Prince's statblock refrences something that doesn't exist "cold wrath"



Yes, I noticed that, too.



> Also, this article totally wrecks total havok on the flavor I was using for the feywild which had a lot of conflict between the summer and winter fey, and the article even said that only young and foolish fey fight like this!  Of course by the laws on the internet, I now have a vendetta against Keith Baker.  For my next campaign I shall blow up Eberron.



It might have been too obvious to go the Winter vs Summer route.  

But I greatly appreciate the Drama. 

---

There seem also be hints about what the "highlight role-playing features of D&D 4" might be:
1) The ways to affect the prince with a song or showing an amulet.
2) The "true love" experience can help you against the princes allies.
3) Access to a Paragon Path and feat only if you are a Fey Warlock of a specific pact - a pact with the Prince of Winter - that has certain extra story prerequisites.

Comments on that?


PS: Oh, and the Wintertouched feat - though it's not explicitly mentioned, IIRC - seems to give every character with it a connection to the "Wintertouched" allies of the Prince. Of course, that's only implied and not a "rule" per se...


----------



## hong (Apr 24, 2009)

Oh mang, the rogue and ranger in our game are totally screwed if they come against him. Wintertouched + Lasting Frost, both of them. I can hear the cries of anguish already.


----------



## Klaus (Apr 24, 2009)

What I loved most were the new mechanics for feylocks. They have been needing some love for a while.


----------



## Hawke (Apr 24, 2009)

Best fluff article I've seen so far! This totally jarred the direction my campaign is taking... 

Interestingly enough a big plot idea has a warrior (elf ranger) in the party who left a far off land after an evil Eladrin came into his village and killed the "princess." The ranger set off north to track him and kill him... 

This works perfectly! Perhaps they are the reincarnates and the evil eladrin didn't really kill her, but used a frost dagger that froze her body such that she appeared dead. Very cool... could really work well as they find the dagger on the evil eladrin that leads them to the prince of frost... and eventually finding out.

Could also work well for the current E1 setup - setup an "alliance" between Orcus and The Prince of Frost to usurp the raven queen and add a whole secondary aspect to that plotline so it doesn't feel so "orcus orcus orcus orcus orcus"


----------



## Nymrohd (Apr 24, 2009)

I think feylocks can really get a lot fluffier powers by tying their pacts more directly to the archfey and other powers of the feywild (can you picture a lock with a pact with Baba Yaga?  ) This does article does a good job at that (though I wouldn't mind a few more powers). As for the general fluff Keith has yet to disappoint me.


----------



## TerraDave (Apr 24, 2009)

Nicely done.

You read these things and start thinking of the adventures or campaigns they could spawn, then think "I have too much of this already, I will never use it all". 

But this time, I really do think I might use him and his cold court.


----------



## Klaus (Apr 24, 2009)

I'll say this:

I just submitted two article queries for Dragon sparked by this article alone.

Keith kicks ass like that.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Apr 24, 2009)

arscott said:
			
		

> The sisters of lament are two banshee-like henchmen of the Prince of Frost. They're presented as a Level 24 elite soldier and striker, so they make a great encounter on their own.
> 
> However, to go along with the Prince of Frost (A level 31 solo), they also present level 30 minion versions of the sisters with distilled versions of their elite-incarnation powers, a new power they can use in tandem, and a mechanism that allows them to respawn while the Prince of Frost is still alive. This seems like a great mechanism for Big Boss plus Minions.




I read the minions as being there with the sisters, not as replacements really.  There can be many of each and if they all start to cry with lament, things get dicey.  I can see a Court with the Prince of Frost, his two Sisters of Lament and their many lovers.


----------



## halfrican (Apr 24, 2009)

Are there any other player options aside from the new warlock powers?


----------



## Klaus (Apr 24, 2009)

One warlock feat, one warlock power and a warlock paragon path. Plus four "roleplaying" codes a PC (wether warlock or not) could follow while in service of the Winter Fey.


----------



## Dire Bare (Apr 24, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> I read the minions as being there with the sisters, not as replacements really.  There can be many of each and if they all start to cry with lament, things get dicey.  I can see a Court with the Prince of Frost, his two Sisters of Lament and their many lovers.




While you can use the crunchy stuff anyways you like of course, there are only two sisters serving the Pale Prince.  The first set of stats are intended when the PCs encounter the two sisters without their Prince, and the second set of minion stats are intended for when the PCs encounter the sisters AND the Prince together.

I have a hard time wrapping my head around this idea, of conditional stat blocks, but I think I'll like it when I get over my own reluctance to leave old gaming habits behind.  It's a pretty big paradigm change, I think, to go from old school stat blocks which seemed to represent the way the beasties actually worked (game rules = physics/biology) to the new wave of stats being only a means to an end, being part of the "scene" rather than being independant of it.

If a 4e monster is alone in the woods, does it have stats?


----------



## Fallen Seraph (Apr 24, 2009)

Dire Bare said:


> While you can use the crunchy stuff anyways you like of course, there are only two sisters serving the Pale Prince.  The first set of stats are intended when the PCs encounter the two sisters without their Prince, and the second set of minion stats are intended for when the PCs encounter the sisters AND the Prince together.
> 
> I have a hard time wrapping my head around this idea, of conditional stat blocks, but I think I'll like it when I get over my own reluctance to leave old gaming habits behind.  It's a pretty big paradigm change, I think, to go from old school stat blocks which seemed to represent the way the beasties actually worked (game rules = physics/biology) to the new wave of stats being only a means to an end, being part of the "scene" rather than being independant of it.
> 
> If a 4e monster is alone in the woods, does it have stats?



Yeah that is how I read it as well, I quite enjoy it. I have always run RPGs like that so nice to see mechanics using this viewpoint  Hmm... This, the Pod Demon they seem to be doing more stuff with minions, w00t

This is a very nice article in general too. I am so glad that WoTC decided to make Fey a major focus in 4e.


----------



## Mephistopheles (Apr 25, 2009)

A solid feature. In particular I really enjoyed the first couple of pages that cover his background.

About the only problem I had was that upon seeing the main piece of art on page one the first thing I thought was "Elven Lich King".


----------



## Rechan (Apr 25, 2009)

Okay, I'm stumped. Perhaps it's the late hour, but besides Conflict between Seasons, what other universal sources of conflict could exist between Fey?


----------



## arscott (Apr 25, 2009)

I think the point is that the Eladrin Courts don't go to war with eachother.  They go to war with the Fomorians, or the Goblins, etc.

The Courts are more like political parties in a democracy--sometimes they work towards opposite goals, sometimes they work towards the same goal, sometimes there are rivalries between specific members of two different courts (or members of the same court) and bloodshed is generally discouraged.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 25, 2009)

arscott said:


> I think the point is that the Eladrin Courts don't go to war with eachother.  They go to war with the Fomorians, or the Goblins, etc.
> 
> The Courts are more like political parties in a democracy--sometimes they work towards opposite goals, sometimes they work towards the same goal, sometimes there are rivalries between specific members of two different courts (or members of the same court) and bloodshed is generally discouraged.



That can't be true! 4E is all about combat! 

I think that approach works for me. Fey conflicts definitely look more "political" than violent to me in nature, and I think it makes the Feywild more interesting, and emphasizes the otherworldly nature of the fey. You can't simple thing in good vs evil when entering the Feywild. You have to look careful whether you can trust someone (and how far), and who might be deceiving you, and be prepared for changing allegiances. 

Of course, that doesn't remove the room for violence. It just means you will find for more "basic" reasons - being hunted as food, or just as a unwelcome trespasser or intruder.

The more war-like conflicts are with Goblins, Formians and intruders from other planes.


----------



## Hellcow (Apr 25, 2009)

Nightson said:


> Two nitpicks, first the two pieces of art on the prince are totally inconsistent, barely in the same ballpark inconsistent...



This is actually an issue with art placement. I assume you're complaining about the image on page 57, next to the Prince's stat block. The thing about this is that it's not actually an image of the Prince (skin color's wrong, among other things). It's a picture of Azara Iceborn (with her frozen-arm rod) and a generic winter eladrin soldier who I originally planned to put in stats for and didn't have the time. So look to that first image when you're thinking of the Prince.


----------



## Hellcow (Apr 25, 2009)

arscott said:


> I think the point is that the Eladrin Courts don't go to war with eachother.  They go to war with the Fomorians, or the Goblins, etc.
> 
> The Courts are more like political parties in a democracy--sometimes they work towards opposite goals, sometimes they work towards the same goal, sometimes there are rivalries between specific members of two different courts (or members of the same court) and bloodshed is generally discouraged.



Good overview. I'd say that there are OFTEN rivalries between individuals; the fey lords enjoy their intrigues. But these typically ARE intrigues, not wars. They *fight* the fomorians... they *scheme* against one another.


----------



## Belorin (Apr 25, 2009)

Thanks for the clarification on the art, Keith! And for the article as a whole, excellent fluff and crunch.
Question and I know you can't answer in any official capacity, but I think you may have an idea due to writing assignments;
How often will we be seeing Court, Deity, etc articles come out?


Bel


----------



## JoeGKushner (Apr 25, 2009)

I've done things similiar in Mutants and Masterminds. The first time you fight that sentinle by itself it's a full fledged bad ass. The second time when there's a wave of them? They become mooks!

The game mechanics fitting the actual way the game plays is an excellent step in the right direction in my opinion.



Dire Bare said:


> While you can use the crunchy stuff anyways you like of course, there are only two sisters serving the Pale Prince.  The first set of stats are intended when the PCs encounter the two sisters without their Prince, and the second set of minion stats are intended for when the PCs encounter the sisters AND the Prince together.
> 
> I have a hard time wrapping my head around this idea, of conditional stat blocks, but I think I'll like it when I get over my own reluctance to leave old gaming habits behind.  It's a pretty big paradigm change, I think, to go from old school stat blocks which seemed to represent the way the beasties actually worked (game rules = physics/biology) to the new wave of stats being only a means to an end, being part of the "scene" rather than being independant of it.
> 
> If a 4e monster is alone in the woods, does it have stats?


----------



## Kobold Avenger (Apr 25, 2009)

I think it's a good point that it's not necessarily that all of the Summer Court is composed of happy, fun fey.  I certainly got the impression that's there's a lot of room for decadence and obsessiveness in the Summer Court, especially when you consider the origin of the Prince of Frost.


----------



## Hellcow (Apr 27, 2009)

Belorin said:


> How often will we be seeing Court, Deity, etc articles come out?



I honestly don't know. Sorry!


----------



## Jack99 (Apr 27, 2009)

Hellcow said:


> I honestly don't know. Sorry!




Since you are here - two things.

1) Thanks for writing a kickass article.
2) Would you care to comment on The Prince's hit points? He has 4x instead of x5, is that correct? Also the hit points of the sisters seem wacky at best - Seeing that the only difference in their hit points is 1, which equals their CON, something is not quite making sense.

Normally, insubstantial creatures get around 2 less hit points per level (for a lot of monsters this fits, but some seem to suffer from some variation, although it is never more than 2 less).

That would give us (25*6+CON)*2 = 350 and 352 respectively. 

Either way, I am not asking you to tell us if there is some big secret about monster design, but if you could tell us if the monster hit points are correct or not, it would be great.

Cheers


----------



## Hellcow (Apr 27, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> Would you care to comment on The Prince's hit points? He has 4x instead of x5, is that correct?



Actually, in this case your guess is as good as mine. I originally designed the Prince as a 29th level monster. During the development phase, he was boosted to a 31st level monster, but his hit points actually went down. Given that they changed from what I wrote, I'm certain that it was an intentional change with some thought behind it, but I don't know the precise reasoning.


----------



## Jack99 (Apr 28, 2009)

Hellcow said:


> Actually, in this case your guess is as good as mine. I originally designed the Prince as a 29th level monster. During the development phase, he was boosted to a 31st level monster, but his hit points actually went down. Given that they changed from what I wrote, I'm certain that it was an intentional change with some thought behind it, but I don't know the precise reasoning.




Okay, interesting. Thanks for getting back to us.

Cheers


----------

