# Ring of Invisibility



## Jimlock (Jul 12, 2011)

> *Invisibility
> By activating this simple silver ring, the wearer can benefit from invisibility, as the spell.
> 
> Faint illusion; CL 3rd; Forge Ring, invisibility; Price 20,000 gp.
> *





Magic Rings

Activation
Usually, a ring’s ability is activated by a command word (a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity) or it works continually. Some rings have exceptional activation methods, according to their descriptions.

Command Word
If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.

A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation. More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.


Ok... so if I get this straight, A ring of invisibility is activated by a command word (a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity) and then it affects the wearer as the spell for 3 minutes (1 min/lvl - CL 3rd). Upon striking an opponent the spell ends and the wearer has to spend another standard action (command word) in order to activate it anew, if he so wishes.

Also, the wearer has the option to speak the command word (standard action) any time during those 3min, so as to "recharge" the duration... as per

Same Effect with Differing Durations: When the same effect is cast more than once on the same target, the durations of the effects don’t stack. Each effect’s duration elapses normally.

Since Invisibility is Dismissible (D) as well as a spell that requires a verbal component, and since:

(D) Dismissible
If the Duration line ends with "(D)," you can dismiss the spell at will. You must be within range of the spell’s effect and must speak words of dismissal, which are usually a modified form of the spell’s verbal component. If the spell has no verbal component, you can dismiss the effect with a gesture. Dismissing a spell is a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

...the wearer has the option to dismiss the ring's powers by speaking those "words of dismissal" (another command word) by taking a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Now, I assume that when the user removes the ring from his finger, the effect ends. Another take on this would be that the effect ends once the duration expires, no matter if the user keeps on wearing the ring. RAW does not specify what happens in such a case, even though it seems more logical that the effect ends upon removing the ring from the finger.

The action it takes to wear/remove rings, is not specified either, although it is probably a move action [like drawing/sheathing a weapon - Switch hands with an item (RC, p8)] that does not provoke an AoO (like switch hands with item).


...is this ok or am I missing something?


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## Greenfield (Jul 12, 2011)

Most people play that the ring's effects don't expire in three minutes.

The key is that you "benefit from invisibility, as the spell", rather than actually having the spell cast on you.

It simplifies things a lot.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jul 12, 2011)

I've always seen it played correctly.  As in, it expires every three minutes.  And you can refresh it early while still invisible by overlapping the durations (actually not a bad idea to give some buffer against dispelling, too...).  You just have to yell out "Command Word!"  Well, whatever the command word is, but for almost a decade that's been a running joke in my groups that the command word for any magic item is "Command Word!" yelled really loudly.


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## Jimlock (Jul 12, 2011)

Greenfield said:


> Most people play that the ring's effects don't expire in three minutes.




It is true that a lot of people play it like that, this is why I started this thread...



Greenfield said:


> The key is that you "benefit from invisibility, as the spell", rather than actually having the spell cast on you.




The way I see it, "as the spell" means what it means... which is that you abide to the spell's descriptions. If there there was something different in respect to the spell they would have mentioned it, as they do for other magical items.


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## Greenfield (Jul 12, 2011)

Some magic rings, such as Spell Turning, specifically state that they allow you to cast the spell on yourself.

Most others grant the power either for a specified period, specified number of uses, or they function continuously once activated.

You're the first person I've ever encountered who read that one as having a duration.

But I can see your reading.  I read it as "benefit from invisibility", as in you gain the benefits of Invisibility, as distinct from "when activated, the spell casts Invisibility on you".

I guess that's why there are horse races.


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## Ahnehnois (Jul 12, 2011)

It's a murky area. I've played the duration as indefinite (until the user attacks anyway). Beyond trying to read into the rules text, I see two reasons to do this.

1. The thing costs 20,000 gp.
(Keeping in mind the default cost is around 11,000 gp by the always-an-adventure pricing rules). For 20k, you shouldn't have to reup every 3 minutes.

2. Constantly repeating the command word seems silly and antidramatic.

I would allow the user to dismiss it, and I would end the effect with the removal of the ring, but that's just me.



> Rings
> 
> A ring is a circular metal band worn on the finger (no more than two rings per wearer) that has a spell-like power (often a constant effect that affects the wearer).



This text from Magic Item Basics seems to suggest the indefinite duration was intended, but it's hardly conclusive. Notice the word "spell-like" which gives a lot of leeway in interpreting whether the ring is casting a spell or not.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Jul 12, 2011)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> I've always seen it played correctly.  As in, it expires every three minutes.  And you can refresh it early while still invisible by overlapping the durations (actually not a bad idea to give some buffer against dispelling, too...).  You just have to yell out "Command Word!"




Yes, this.

"As the spell" + "Spell = 1 minute / CL" + "CL 3" = 3 minutes per command word activation.

Funny bit about the command word. 

I figure the upcharge vs. the 3 * 2 * 1,800 price is because invisibility is just damn useful to have at will.


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## anest1s (Jul 12, 2011)

Just wondering, what would you do with lets say, a ring of silence?


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## Sekhmet (Jul 12, 2011)

Having an at-will ability with a duration seems annoyingly irrelevant. One round prior to the end of the duration, you just have to refresh it. You're never in combat during that time, the round spent is always an irrelevant factor in whatever you're trying to do. 
Also, according to the very horrible magic item creation lists, a use activated or continuous Ring of Invisibility would cost 24,000 (2nd level spell x 3rd level caster x 2,000 GP x 2 for a spell measured in 1minute/level increments = 24,000gp), which is right about what the book charges for it's Ring of Invisibility, as opposed to the 10,800gp it would be if it were just a command word activation, which is nearly half of what the book charges.



anest1s said:


> Just wondering, what would you do with lets say, a ring of silence?




 I made a Ring of Silence as a cursed item once. Muted the user without the user being aware of it when he attempted to use meaningful words (ie: cast a spell, give a motivational speech, etc). Caused quite a bit of confusion for a short while.


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## Dandu (Jul 12, 2011)

anest1s said:


> Just wondering, what would you do with lets say, a ring of silence?



Activate it after the Silence has worn off?


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## irdeggman (Jul 12, 2011)

OP - I go with the way you interpret the text.

From the FAQ



> *What is the duration of the invisibility granted by a ring
> of invisibility?*
> 
> In general, you should assume that any spell effect
> ...




Now the assumption is for any magic item that the caster level is the minimum required to cast the spell - in this case the default would a 3rd level caster.

It is possible to create a ring of invisibility with a higher caster level, but the cost would go up accordingly.

As far as justifying the 20,000 gp cost - well, the DMG talks about "adjusting" prices based on actual worth (pg 282) and look at the prices of the rings in general, especially around the same cost as the ring of invisibility - seems pretty reasonable for a relative "actual value" to me.


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## Ahnehnois (Jul 13, 2011)

I thought there might be an FAQ on it, but it deoesn't particularly change my mind on the subject. Just one of those things everyone has an opinion on, I guess.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jul 13, 2011)

The ring IS grossly overpriced, for sure.  Just like Monk's Belt and a lot of DMG items.  I recall how a lot of them drastically went up in price from 3.0 to 3.5, only for MIC to reign things in again and bring some sanity back to magic item pricing (funny how things come full circle, eh?).  I wouldn't be opposed to continuously functioning.  I just don't think that's what it does by RAW.


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## Vegepygmy (Jul 13, 2011)

Greenfield said:


> You're the first person I've ever encountered who read that one as having a duration.



You can add me to that list.

Not that I would object to it lasting indefinitely; StreamOfTheSky is right about that. But the RAW seems pretty clear to me.


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## Jimlock (Jul 13, 2011)

Ahnehnois said:


> It's a murky area. I've played the duration as indefinite (until the user attacks anyway).
> 
> This text from Magic Item Basics seems to suggest the indefinite duration was intended, but it's hardly conclusive.




I don't see anything murky about it.

Activation
Usually, a ring’s ability is activated by a command word (a standard action that does not provoke attacks of opportunity) or it works continually. Some rings have exceptional activation methods, according to their descriptions.

When there is a command word involved, durations comes into play, when not (*or* it works continually) the duration is infinite. The ring of invisibility requires activation, therefore, has a duration.



Ahnehnois said:


> 2. Constantly repeating the command word seems silly and antidramatic.






Sekhmet said:


> Having an at-will ability with a duration seems annoyingly irrelevant. One round prior to the end of the duration, you just have to refresh it. You're never in combat during that time, the round spent is always an irrelevant factor in whatever you're trying to do.




I disagree. The way I see it, it is much more dramatic and relevant, when a trespasser has to pay attention to when and where he "speaks" (command word) so as to refresh the duration. Timing your "refresh" when going into a castle full of guards and people that might hear you, is very challenging, fun and very dramatic!

...Imagine the trespasser waiting for the guards to make a pass down the narrow hallway, but then... the guards decide to stand/stay close to him and to have a chit chat or whatever have you...

...Now either the space is sealed by doors (opening them might reveal his presence), or the trespasser is lousy at Move Silently so he can't actually risk to move away from the guards so as to speak and refresh the effect...

I LOVE such challenges!!!



As for the cost... Come on guys... this is a RING OF INVISIBILITY!!! It SHOULD be expensive!!

...The One Ring was a ring of Invisibility (among other things)


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2011)

Jimlock said:


> I disagree. The way I see it, it is much more dramatic and relevant, when a trespasser has to pay attention to when and where he "speaks" (command word) so as to refresh the duration. Timing your "refresh" when going into a castle full of guards and people that might hear you, is very challenging, fun and very dramatic!
> 
> ...Imagine the trespasser waiting for the guards to make a pass down the narrow hallway, but then... the guards decide to stand/stay close to him and to have a chit chat or whatever have you...
> 
> ...




 Face wall.
 Place hands over mouth.
 Whisper command word.
 Refresh duration.
 No need to worry about guards overhearing, unless you're less than a foot away.


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## Dandu (Jul 13, 2011)

Are there any rules as to how loudly the command word must be spoken?


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jul 13, 2011)

I always assumed command words were the same volume level as the vocal component of a spell.  I recall reading that vocal components have the same Listen DC as the sounds of battle, but I cannot find where the heck I saw that now.  All the components section says is: "A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice."


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## Ahnehnois (Jul 13, 2011)

Jimlock said:


> I don't see anything murky about it.
> 
> When there is a command word involved, durations comes into play, when not (*or* it works continually) the duration is infinite. The ring of invisibility requires activation, therefore, has a duration.



The rules issue wasn't whether it had a duration, the issue was what that duration was. As pointed out above, the ring's text makes it somewhat ambiguous as to whether the ring is casting an invisibilty spell (3 minute duration) or making you invisible (anyone's guess). The FAQ apparently goes for that first interpretation.



> I disagree. The way I see it, it is much more dramatic and relevant, when a trespasser has to pay attention to when and where he "speaks" (command word) so as to refresh the duration. Timing your "refresh" when going into a castle full of guards and people that might hear you, is very challenging, fun and very dramatic!
> 
> I LOVE such challenges!!!



I can see that angle; that just isn't my style.
(My style breezes through and handwaves these sorts of things. My drama is what happens when the characters reach their destination. This kind of action-based drama is totally valid and fun, however.)



> As for the cost... Come on guys... this is a RING OF INVISIBILITY!!! It SHOULD be expensive!!
> 
> ...The One Ring was a ring of Invisibility (among other things)



Well, if Rings of Invisibility were in a low-magic world I guess they'd feel more powerful. In a world where any mid-level spellcaster has options for defeating invisibility, numerous monster abilities make it useless, and any important area is usually assumed to be protected by powerful magic...I just don't see it as being a game-breaking thing. A wand of Invis is 4500. The ring has the advantage of not running out of charges and being usable by noncasters, but I'm skeptical that it's really worth four and a half times as much on that basis.

I don't think I've ever seen a PC use one of these rings; I have them on NPCs every once in a while for convenience. If I were making a character, there's no way I'd send 20,000 gp on a ring that constantly has to be reactivated.


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2011)

Double post, sorry.


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## Jimlock (Jul 13, 2011)

Sekhmet said:


> Face wall.
> Place hands over mouth.
> Whisper command word.
> Refresh duration.
> No need to worry about guards overhearing, unless you're less than a foot away.




Doesn't this seem to you as a lame way of resolving a challenge? The player(s) should think of intelligent ways to bypass relevant obstacles, and IMO this just isn't one. 
Moreover:



StreamOfTheSky said:


> I always assumed command words were the same volume level as the vocal component of a spell.  I recall reading that vocal components have the same Listen DC as the sounds of battle, but I cannot find where the heck I saw that now.  All the components section says is: "A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice."




This



Plus:

Command Word
If no activation method is suggested either in the magic item description or by the nature of the item, assume that a command word is needed to activate it. Command word activation means that a character speaks the word and the item activates. No other special knowledge is needed.

A command word can be a real word, but when this is the case, the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word *in normal conversation.* More often, the command word is some seemingly nonsensical word, or a word or phrase from an ancient language no longer in common use. Activating a command word magic item is a standard action and does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

Excuse my reasoning, but to me it seems that:

the holder of the item runs the risk of activating the item accidentally by speaking the word in normal conversation.
*=*
the holder of the item does not run the risk of activating the item accidentally by whispering it.


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2011)

Jimlock said:


> Doesn't this seem to you as a lame way of resolving a challenge? The player(s) should think of intelligent ways to bypass relevant obstacles, and IMO this just isn't one.
> 
> 
> > Sometimes, the most intelligent thing to do is also the simplest. If you're in a bad situation that can be resolved by whispering or by concocting an elaborate plan to somehow sneak passed (with a low move silently and an armor check penalty), find a nook that you can duck into, wait for the guard to pass, and then finally speak "'ello Guv'na!", it should be assumed that the most intelligent thing to do is the whispering bit.
> ...


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## Jackinthegreen (Jul 13, 2011)

anest1s said:


> Just wondering, what would you do with lets say, a ring of silence?



I'd personally somehow get it to follow my commands even when used on another person, then somehow get my aunt to wear it or something.  That way when I don't want to listen to her I just mumble some incoherent words and she shuts up.


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## Jimlock (Jul 13, 2011)

Sekhmet said:


> Sometimes, the most intelligent thing to do is also the simplest.




Oh, I agree. However I do not agree that this is such a case. It sounds more an excuse for bad play to me, but perhaps that is just me.



Sekhmet said:


> As for the notion that command words must be spoken as loudly as a spell component,  there is no rule or suggestion thereof that addresses it.




It's a POWER WORD for god's sake, you are supposed to utter the damn thing in a clear voice. 

Perhaps it's a mater of personal taste, but to me, imagining scenes where characters whisper command words, seems just as lame as whispering a spell.

No one said you have to shout it, but you have to say to it... and go with the challenge of doing it without being heard.

Ofcourse, as you say, RAW does not specify it, therefore by RAW you are good to go with a whisper. 
Every group plays as it likes


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2011)

Jimlock said:


> It's a POWER WORD for god's sake, you are supposed to utter the damn thing in a clear voice.



 Command word, not Power Word. Easy mistake to make, but a dangerous one.



			
				Jimlock said:
			
		

> Every group plays as it likes



 Word.



			
				Jimlock said:
			
		

> Oh, I agree. However I do not agree that this is such a case. It sounds more an excuse for bad play to me, but perhaps that is just me.




 When I envision a person using invisibility to sneak through a guarded fort, I absolutely feel being quiet is the epitome of "good play".


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## Trance-Zg (Jul 13, 2011)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> I always assumed command words were the same volume level as the vocal component of a spell.  I recall reading that vocal components have the same Listen DC as the sounds of battle, but I cannot find where the heck I saw that now.  All the components section says is: "A verbal component is a spoken incantation. To provide a verbal component, you must be able to speak in a strong voice."




DC's are in RuC, p114. 

DC of battle is -10 and for people talking is 0.

I would say that DC for spell casting/command word is 0, same as talking because I don't think that when cast a spell you shout your lungs out. 

DC -10 for battle is I think for dozens of people clashing steel on steel, shouting commands, screaming and a few catapults for safe measure. 

One spell caster is DC 0, but 50 of them casting at the same time is DC -10.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jul 13, 2011)

Fair enough, DC 0 sounds fine.

As for the activation of a Silence item...there ARE mental activation items, especially in MIC.  I should check what the Ring of Silent Spells has for activation...


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## Trance-Zg (Jul 13, 2011)

P.S. 

for activation I would say that ring of invisibility is always active, dispels on attack and recasts it self automatic on start on your next round.

that would be worth the cost.


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## Jimlock (Jul 13, 2011)

Sekhmet said:


> Command word, not Power Word. Easy mistake to make, but a dangerous one.




LOL, agreed.



Sekhmet said:


> When I envision a person using invisibility to sneak through a guarded fort, I absolutely feel being quiet is the epitome of "good play".




Me too. Moreover, my epitome of "good play" involves other things as well.

In my book, a character who does a such thing does not hide, (which involves the risk of being seen), instead he uses a powerful magical item that makes him completely disappear, thus eliminating the risk of being spotted.
However this powerful magical item has a down side. Every three minutes he has to speak a word or lose the advantage.

Now this factor is gonna make the player think more strategically of his approach: Perhaps three minutes is enough to tip toe in and tip toe out, having done what he was supposed to. Still if those three minutes are not enough, he's got to find ways of speaking the word unnoticed.

Perhaps he can coordinate it with a door's thud... or the ring of a bell...(like indy does with the seal)... or in a noisy room where a bunch of people are discussing... or do it while the wagon's wheels scritch, as the convoy leaves the castle... or simply he can do it when no one is around, in an empty room, an empty hall etc etc... If there are patrols taking turns, perhaps he has to count the time and act accordingly. 

...In fact, this single factor, opens a rich chest for "good play" as you said it.

I am not saying that you can't have a good play without those things, of course you can, I'm just trying to explain my view/opinion on a "good play" as you put it, in respect to our common example.

Moreover, I believe that it is the downsides of situations that are gonna make for a better game. And this specific downside, to me, spices up things a great deal.

...One other thing. If you think that 3 minutes is too little for the given price, just think of what you could have achieved in real life with a Ring of Invisibility that expires after 3 minutes.

3 minutes, is a LONG time.

One single example that springs to mind:

You enter a mall casually. you enter the WC and you activate it while it's empty. You leave the WC and reach the Apple store. You stuff a dozen ipads in a bag that you already carry while people are distracted. You leave the Apple store and you go home. There you offer all 12 ipads to your girlfriend as a present for starting her dance classes. You know she has just bought a new collection of plates as you also know how she would love the ipads as sous-plats for her plate collection....


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## Jimlock (Jul 13, 2011)

It's unbelievable how one can find *ANYTHING* on the internet.


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## Sekhmet (Jul 13, 2011)

I'm aware of the real-life opportunities that three minutes can provide. I was a soldier, I served, and there were many times where even three minutes per day could have trivialized 'encounters".

However, that being said, Invisibility carries an already substantial downside - See Invisibility :: d20srd.org , True Seeing :: d20srd.org , and other such spells, which generally have a longer duration completely foil them. Anything worth stealing would be subject to at least one such individual with one such spell activated.

 Hell, you can even make them permanent for a small EXP cost. 
 There are, as I recall, a small number of items that provide a continuous See Invisibility spell as well. Perhaps MiC?

 A person using HiPS or other applications of the Hide skill need not fear magical detection such as these.


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## jefgorbach (Jul 13, 2011)

Interesting.

IMO the primary difference between a spell cast from memory, from a wand/staff, drinking a potion, or using some other item is primarily circumstantial fluff. Therefore a Ring of Invisibility casts the indicated spell upon the receiver per the spell's standard description.

The ring's entry presumes a 3rd level caster so would have a 3-minute time limit per use; presuming a command-word. HOWEVER as others pointed out, the listed price justifies the ring being a Continuous-use item implying the unstated Activation is wearing the ring.


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