# How to build a throwing fighter ?



## Trenien

Hi all!

Although I'm a long time rpg player (of various games, including D&D 3.0 and variants), up to this point I have never played with the Pathfinder family set of rules. A friend of mine is about to start a campaign with it and will allow us to create level 4 characters with any rules frome the basic player to the ultimate magic book (and maybe ultimate combat if we get our hands on one). The question is, what to create ?

I have this vague idea of creating a fighting character whose main shtick is moving around the battlefield while throwing things at targets (yes, I AM aware that thrown weapons have pitiful damage rates). At the same time, I'd like a character who can do something outside of battle (which seems to throw a pure fighter right out).

I'm contemplating the idea of a a multiclass character (fighter/alchemist), but I'm not quite sure how good, or bad,  this would be...

Any thoughts, or advices ?


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## Herobizkit

I would almost consider taking Rogue over Fighter for the throwing shtick (mostly due to Sneak Attack damage) were it not for the feat requirements.

Using a thrown weapon that can also be wielded in melee is key.

Feats that are pretty much required:
Point Blank Shot (the base feat)
Precise Shot (to offset -4 to firing into melee)
Quick Draw (to free action a second weapon for...)
Rapid Shot (to throw twice a round)


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## StreamOfTheSky

You would want only Fighter 2 for feats, you need sneak attack to make the thrown attacks mean something.  Vivvesectionist Alchemist does trade bombs for sneak attack, though rogue may be a better choice because you can snag at least one bonus feat with it, and the build is feat heavy.

In any case, by around level 6, the character will become less and less viable with each passing level because PF currently does not have a Bloodstorm Blade type ability to full attack with the same weapon (Returning property is expensive and just doesn't cut it) nor even items like the gloves of endless javelins from MIC, which lets you free action produce unlimited +1 javelins so you could actually deal with DR /magic, at least.


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## Herobizkit

... If he picks Human Rogue, and the DM allows Flaws, he might be able to get the 4 feats he needs at level 1.

Edit: Bah, nope.  Quick Draw needs BAB +1 (considering Rogues are more likely to use it than Fighters, I find this droll and sad.)


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## Trenien

StreamOfTheSky said:


> In any case, by around level 6, the character will become less and less viable with each passing level because PF currently does not have a Bloodstorm Blade type ability to full attack with the same weapon (Returning property is expensive and just doesn't cut it) nor even items like the gloves of endless javelins from MIC, which lets you free action produce unlimited +1 javelins so you could actually deal with DR /magic, at least.




I may have read it wrong, but I've understood that quick draw allow you to use your full attack with thrown weapons. Compounding that with the fact that I'm pretty sure my DM would allow me to retrieve most of my weapons at the end of a fight, I'm not sure a returning weapon is all that necessary (we're going to play between level 4 and 9).

Looking around, I'm getting to the point where I think my initial idea (fighter/alchemist) isn't very efficient for the result I'm looking for. Since I'm not especially gung-ho on either classes (they're just means to an end), that's all right. The main thing is to be able to build a character that's as close as possible to the idea I've had.

Basically, I want a support "fighter" which will be able to things outside of combat. As the Spring Attack route isn't very good (nor all that interesting since, apparently, PF's writers have decided to nerf Tumble), ranged look better for what I'm trying to achieve. The thrown weapons idea is just a quirk of mine (I'm getting tired of the supporting archer), and I've just seen the chakram makes it not all that bad (trade-off : direct STR bonus  to damages without needing a special composite bow / diminished range).

It appear a build made around either a Bard or a Ranger (I'm pretty sure I can convince my DM to exchange the bow path with a thrown weapons path).

Any advice on that ?

By the by, is there any feat similar to Arcane Strike that a ranger could use ?


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## StreamOfTheSky

BAB +1 feats are annoyingly common, and poor medium BABers often have to wait till level 3 to start on any chains they entail (especially irritating with weapon focus).  Which is why it's often a good idea for martial-inclined medium BAB classes to dip a full BAB class at level 1.  It's a shame, but true.


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## StreamOfTheSky

Arcane Strike isn't a good feat, you have way more useful ones you need first as a ranged character.Fighter is fine as a dip.  Viv. Alchemist or Rogue's sneak attack damage makes throwing somewhat viable.

I said you need returning because eventually you'll want magical weapons to overcome DR /magic.  I guess you could load up on just +1 weapons and retrieve them after the fight, but then you'd need quite a few potentially.  And I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing many thousands of gp away and hoping it'll still be there when the combat's over.

Build advice: what books are allowed? Ultimate Combat has a ton of new feats, a fraction of which are actually useful.


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## Trenien

StreamOfTheSky said:


> I said you need returning because eventually you'll want magical weapons to overcome DR /magic.  I guess you could load up on just +1 weapons and retrieve them after the fight, but then you'd need quite a few potentially.  And I wouldn't feel comfortable throwing many thousands of gp away and hoping it'll still be there when the combat's over.




It's for this very reason I'm considering Arcane Strike.

As for the books, up to Ultimate Magic is a given. If we can get Ultimate Combat, it'll be allowed as well.

If I may, what kind of feats are interesting in there ?


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## Shisumo

Unless you're looking specifically for trapfinding, I suspect the thing you will find most useful out of Ultimate Combat is the knife master rogue archetype, which has d8 sneak attack dice when using daggers or other small blades - this would work as well for thrown daggers as for melee ones, from what I can tell.


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## StreamOfTheSky

UC has the Clustered Shots feat, for one thing.  When you make a full attack with a ranged weapon, you tally up the damage against a target from all hits and then apply any damage reduction it has ONCE, to the totaled damage, instead of applying it to every single hit.  This is a huge relief for overcoming DR.

I'm not sure if it was intended when you use the feat that you only can attack one target, but as written, you can divide up your attacks as you like and simply apply Clustered Shots on any foe you hit more than once.


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## ash_rex

HUMAN KNIFE MASTER SCOUT
Rogue favored class alternative

Name: Aedan (ay-den) Aelirin

Abilities: 20 point buy
STR: 10, DEX: 19 +4, CON: 12 +1, INT: 14 +2, WIS: 12 +1, CHA: 8

Alignment:Lawful neutral
Role:Striker and scout. Local guide. Using wands.
Initiative: +6
Skill points: 10 per level

Traits:
1. Reactionary (+2 initiative)
You were bullied often as a child, but never quite developed an offensive response.
Instead, you became adept at anticipating sudden attacks and reacting to danger quickly.
2. Deft dodger (+1 reflex save)
Growing up in a rough neighborhood or a dangerous environment has honed your senses.
3. River rat (+1 dagger damage)
You learned to swim right after you learned to walk. As a youth, a gang of river pirates put you to work swimming in nighttime rivers and canals with a dagger in your teeth so you could sever the anchor ropes of merchant vessels.
4. Dirty fighter (+1 flank damage)
You wouldn’t have lived to make it out of childhood without the aid of a sibling, friend, or companion on whom you could always count to distract your enemies long enough to do a little bit more damage than normal.


Feats:
1 feat: two weapon fighting
1 bonus feat: weapon focus dagger
2 rogue talent: weapon finesse
3 feat: dodge
4 rogue talent: slow reactions
4 scout talent: charge and SA
5 feat: disorienting maneuver
6 rogue talent: offensive defense
6 bonus rogue talent: befuddling strike
7 feat: point blank shot
8 rogue talent: combat trick precise shot
8 scout talent: move 10ft then SA
9 feat: skill focus (use magic device)
10 rogue talent: entanglement of blades
11 feat: spring attack
12 rogue talent: crippling strike
12 bonus rogue talent: skill mastery
13 feat: charging hurler
14 rogue talent: far shot
15 feat: magical aptitude

Skills:
acrobatics
appraise
disable device
escape artist
knowledge (dungeoneering)
knowledge (local)
linguistics
perception
stealth
use magical device

Weapons of choice:
Two daggers
Throwing daggers
Short bow

Sneak attack options:
1d8 with knifes
1. Flank for SA (+2 hit)
2. Charge for SA (+2 hit). Charge again for SA with no OA.
3. Move through enemies square and SA (+2 hit)
4. Move 10ft and throw a knife for SA (+1 hit)
5. Move 10ft and melee attack for SA
6. Win initiative and throw two knifes for SA (+1 hit)
7. Move 10ft SA move 20ft (spring attack)
8. Charge 10ft throw for SA (+2 hit)

Equipment:
Boots of Elvenkind +5 Acrobatics
Exlirs of acrobatics +10
Belt of incredible dexterity
Efficient Quiver
Glove of storing
Wrist braces, spring loaded
A +1 alchemical silver light mace* for bludgeoning, silver
cold-iron dagger
wooden stake
adamantine weapon
Holy water, alchemist's fire, a thunderstone, smokesticks, sunrods
Mithral Chain Shirt
wrist sheaths, spring loaded.

Wands
align weapon
protect from evil
shield
obscuring mist
silent image
reduce person
resist energy
mirror image
blindness
cats grace
alter self
knock
darkvision
invisibility

Daggers:
Spell storing
Menacing
Ghost touch
Throwing + Returning
Disruption
Speed
Transformative
Vorpal
Merciful (for non lethal)

He is a sneak freak...stab first, ask questions later.


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## blargney the second

See if your DM will let you take the Brutal Throw feat.  It's from a 3.5 book, and it lets you use your Str modifier to attack with thrown weapons instead of Dex.

A 4th level fighter gets 5 feats.  Here's a reasonable grouping:
1) Two-Weapon Fighting works fine with thrown weapons, and gives you melee options.
2) Quick Draw.
3) Brutal Throw for some stat consolidation.
4) Point Blank Shot.
5) Precise Shot.
(Human feat) Weapon Focus

Future feat ideas: Weapon Specialization, Rapid Shot (works fine with TWF), Far Shot, Improved Critical


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