# 3.5 illusion spell suggestions



## ShortBus (Sep 10, 2008)

I don't usually run wizards but I have run one or two in my day.  Mostly they have been more evokers or guys that make things go boom!  I'm looking to change it up a bit and run a illusionist under 3.5 rules.  I would love some suggestions on the most effective lower level illusion spells as well some creative uses.  

I also only have the main 3.5 books.  Are there any official wotc publications that have some cool illusion spells?

Thanks!


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## Vorput (Sep 10, 2008)

I'd ask this in the 3.5 rules forum- you'll probably get more responses. 

Link: http://www.enworld.org/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=3


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## ShortBus (Sep 10, 2008)

Really?  I looked at the various forums and this question seemed broad and general enough for this forum to me.


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## blargney the second (Sep 10, 2008)

I gather being a gnome shadowcraft mage is a good way to go.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 10, 2008)

blargney the second said:


> I gather being a gnome shadowcraft mage is a good way to go.




Heh, yeah.  Silent Image becomes the best spell ever.

Shadowcraft Mage Handbook - Wizards Community

Soon as my new game gets underway, I'll be trying a version of the build, via cleric.  Staying away from the just plain dirty abuses, in order to keep the game fun for everyone.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 10, 2008)

To actually answer the OP's question, Spell Compendium has some awesome choices.  My favorites, for both humor and effectiveness:

Shadow Well: Sucks them into the plane of shadow, for a round at a time, till they make their save and come back (scared).  Good fun, and at level 4, a poor man's Maze.

Illusory Pit: Makes the subject think he's falling down an infinite chasm, as he writhes around in hillarious fashion on the ground.

Solipsism: level 7, effectively a Will save or die (completely helpless for round/level), it's both effective and a funny/cruel jab at an actual philosophical outlook.


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## Lanefan (Sep 10, 2008)

Can't speak for 3.5, but my 3.0 Illusionist made her living with Colour Spray at low level.  Hypnotic Pattern next, along with the various Images, Invisibility, and utility stuff e.g. buffs.  That lot should get you through until you start picking up the fun 4th-5th level spells...

And that's just from the core books.  If your DM allows other stuff then go to town! 

To make her more true to the original Illusionist I made Evokation her banned school...yes it's not the best choice, but Illusionists shouldn't be able to blow things up for real. 

Lanefan


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 10, 2008)

Actually, it seems a common consensus on char op forums that evocation is the worst school and the best one to drop as a specialist.

I personally always loved evocation and don't agree.  Just saying, it's debatable if giving it up is "not the best choice."


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## Spatula (Sep 10, 2008)

Illusion and enchantment are probably the weakest schools, since there's large classes of foes they won't work on.  On top of that, pretty much every enchantment spell is negated by a 1st level _protection from X_.  And once one foe makes his save vs an illusion, all his friends get a new save with a bonus.  Illusions are best used to divert and misdirect foes, but it takes a lot of imagination and thinking on your feet (and a willing DM) to make that effective.  Although it sounds like the SC has some interesting new general-purpose illusion spells.

Evocation isn't a particularly strong school because of monster HP inflation, but at least it's reliable.


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## ShortBus (Sep 12, 2008)

thanks for the feedback guys.  I haven't played an illusionist since my college days..  *cough* in the 80s *cough*.    I just wasn't sure if they have changed much


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## Runestar (Sep 12, 2008)

Illusion - one of the weakest schools? IMO, it is easily the strongest, 2nd only to conjuration.



> To make her more true to the original Illusionist I made Evokation her banned school...yes it's not the best choice, but Illusionists shouldn't be able to blow things up for real.




Not really a big loss. Shadow evocation can replicate key evocation spells anyways (and possibly even better, since spells duplicated this way have a casting time of just 1 standard action and no need for material components - yay for contingency). 

Generally, evocation is considered a subpar choice because its damage scales at a much slower rate compared to the opponent's rate of hp gain, and its effects can be replicated by conjuration and illusion. It does nothing to prevent your enemies from attacking you (because they are every bit as effective at 1 life as at full life), and thus deemed to be inferior to battlefield control spells such as glitterdust, web, stinking cloud, solid fog or evard's tentacles which stop them cold (if the enemies cannot touch you, it doesn't really matter if they are full hp or 1 hp, does it?).



> On top of that, pretty much every enchantment spell is negated by a 1st level _protection from X_.




Not true. Protection from X only prevents your opponent from exercising mental control over you, meaning that spells which do not exert ongoing control (such as sleep, suggestion, insanity, geas, irresistible dance etc still work). The spell really only blocks out charm/dominate spells (and even these have a much longer duration than protection from alignment, so an astute npc wizard can out-wait it), which makes up only a minor portion of enchantment spells.

The 3.0 FAQ covers this in detail.


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## Rechan (Sep 12, 2008)

The strongest illusion spells early on, in my opinion, are color spray and glitterdust.

Color spray really puts people down in early levels. It is the poor man's sleep, and also gives you an idea of the potency of the monsters you're fighting.

Glitterdust is blindness in an area. Very nice. 

Just be wary that illusions don't work on many monster types, so you need some sort of backup spells just in case. 

If you can get your hands on it, I would actually advise you to look at the Beguiler in Player's Handbook 2. They're a spontaneous caster who has the skills of a rogue, and access to all (and just) illusion/enchantment spells. They're the best illusionists in my opinion.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 12, 2008)

Definitely, Color Spray and Glitterdust are some of the best low level spells, period.  And Silent Image, even w/o Shadowcraft Mage, can be handy on many an occasion.  Heck, for cantrips, Ghost Sound is one of the best IMO.

And yeah, beguiler's worth a look.  I personally hate them and think they're too overpowered and take too much of the Rogue's and Bard's stuff, but if you don't mind, they are VERY good at Illusion and Enchantment.


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## Runestar (Sep 12, 2008)

> Just be wary that illusions don't work on many monster types, so you need some sort of backup spells just in case.




Can you cite some examples? My understanding is that only illusions with the mind-affecting descriptor won't work on monsters like undead or constructs. But the majority, such as glamers still have full effect. For example, a zombie can still be fooled by major image, since I believe that it was mentioned by some designer that unless stated otherwise, assume that all monsters use the basic 5 human senses accordingly.

Unless the foe in question has constant access to true-seeing or can somehow muster a spot check of +80, he shouldn't be able to automatically overcome illusions.


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## Rechan (Sep 12, 2008)

Runestar said:


> Can you cite some examples? My understanding is that only illusions with the mind-affecting descriptor won't work on monsters



Oozes, plants, vermin, undead and constructs are immune to charms, compulsions, phantasms, and patterns and morale types.

That's a lot of illusion types right there. So, just warning the OP.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 12, 2008)

Actually, only two of those you listed are illusions.  Half the Illusion school works fine on anything. More often, it's a matter of "dumbing down" the figment or whatever enough for the target audience to get the message.  The message being, "this is dangerous/ordinary/has the herpes, so you shouldn't bother with a closer investigation, that cement wall's always been there, even if you remember it being an emergency fire exit yesterday."


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## Noumenon (Sep 12, 2008)

I would have posted this thread in this forum too.



> my 3.0 Illusionist made her living with Colour Spray at low level. Hypnotic Pattern next




Hypnotic Pattern?  Doesn't everyone just un-fascinate right away because of the combat going on?  Also, it seems like everything is immune to mind-affecting spells.


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## Lanefan (Sep 12, 2008)

Noumenon said:


> Hypnotic Pattern?  Doesn't everyone just un-fascinate right away because of the combat going on?



Not if they're not in the combat yet, or if they're remote from it.  "You guys deal with the tanks.  Leave that archer to little invisible me..."  or "Glad we saw 'em coming...let's see how many I can persuade not to come any further.  You guys handle what I don't stop."

Hypnotic Pattern is, you're quite right, a waste of time if cast on people already in melee.

Lanefan


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## Spatula (Sep 12, 2008)

Runestar said:


> Not true. Protection from X only prevents your opponent from exercising mental control over you, meaning that spells which do not exert ongoing control (such as sleep, suggestion, insanity, geas, irresistible dance etc still work). The spell really only blocks out charm/dominate spells (and even these have a much longer duration than protection from alignment, so an astute npc wizard can out-wait it), which makes up only a minor portion of enchantment spells.
> 
> The 3.0 FAQ covers this in detail.



I was talking about 3.5e _protection_ / _magic circle_ spells, which block all enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) spells.


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## Runestar (Sep 12, 2008)

Spatula said:


> I was talking about 3.5e _protection_ / _magic circle_ spells, which block all enchantment (charm) and enchantment (compulsion) spells.




I suggest you reread what protection from X does again. It is serious misunderstanding of the rules like this that lead to dangerous generalizations like "A 1st lv spell can render an entire school of magic moot".

Only spells which exert ongoing control are affected. Suggestion for example, does not, and so is not blocked out by protection from evil.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Sep 12, 2008)

Runestar said:


> I suggest you reread what protection from X does again. It is serious misunderstanding of the rules like this that lead to dangerous generalizations like "A 1st lv spell can render an entire school of magic moot".
> 
> Only spells which exert ongoing control are affected. Suggestion for example, does not, and so is not blocked out by protection from evil.




So, you think forcing someone to continually follow a suggestion is not done by exerting ongoing control on the target?


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