# Let's talk thieves' guilds



## der_kluge (Oct 11, 2015)

I want a thieves guild in my town.  

Anyone built a working thieves guild? 
Created rules around how to join?

I have some ideas, that I'll share, but want ideas on what others have done here.  Share your thieves' guild stories.


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## Celebrim (Oct 11, 2015)

der_kluge said:


> I want a thieves guild in my town.
> 
> Anyone built a working thieves guild?
> Created rules around how to join?
> ...




So, as a player, I'm most known for playing 1e thieves.  I've built working guilds as both a PC and a DM.

The thing about a thieves 'guild' is that it is simply organized crime referred to according to the social structures of the day.  But fundamentally, as it may be expressed in your fantasy world, it would be identical to any of the structures seen in organized crime societies in the real (at minimum).

The main thing to remember about organized crime is petty theft is the least of their interests.  Sure, they may expect a take from the pick pockets working the streets, but that's just a small sideline - more useful for recruiting perspective future retainers and keeping eyes on the street than anything else.  All that disorganized individual crime - con artists, begging, theft, burglary, and so forth are more like independent contractors that require licensing by the guild to operate.   The guild's main profits can come from any number of things that require organization - smuggling (whether of contraband or tax evasion), narcotics peddling, piracy, slave taking, prostitution, gambling, extortion rackets, blackmail, and so forth.  Keep in mind that gambling may also mean pit fighting, dog fighting, ratting, cock fighting and various blood sports, so it may be the case that there is legal gambling and there is illegal gambling, and obviously, the guild will try to control both by leverage its monopoly over illegal gambling and its willingness to do violence to squash legal competitors.   

Large guilds will also have legal front operations to handle money laundering and provide a veneer of legitimacy to what the establishments will do - tattoo parlors, barber shops, mercantiles, taverns, inns, massage parlors, bath houses, warehouses, and so forth.  Fences and smugglers in particular need legitimate fronts.  Brothels and gambling houses may need legitimate fronts if they can't legally operator (for example, out of a recognized temple, as many ancient religions monopolized prostitution as a sacred business endeavor) or bribe the authorities to look the other directions.  Guilds may even engage in various sorts of community service, running orphanages, homeless shelters, 'soup kitchen', hospitals, asylums, and so forth.  And it may be that many legal trades also have illegal sidelines and thus duel membership both in a legitimate guild and the 'thieves guild'.  For example, apothecaries and locksmiths may provide legitimate services, and also sell poisons, drugs, and lock picks to members of the guild.

1) Familial: This is the Mafia or tribal structure.  The guild is mostly a group of families that jointly operate a business or a group of related businesses that have commercial dependency on each other.  Leadership in the business is quasi-inherited, with actual control of the business tending to pass not patrilineal, but to the relation that proves most qualified. Anyone that's watched something like 'The Sopranos' has an idea of what the structure of a family operation is like.  

2) Mystical: This is more typical of Eastern organized crime than Western organized crime, but its particularly well suited to a D&D setting.  In this structure, the guild is organized like a religious cult, with secret initiation rites, oaths, secret marks, mysteries, and inner circles.  In a D&D context, the guild is probably indistinguishable from the cult of one or more deities that have dominion over or interest in things like larceny, theft, prostitution, drunkenness, narcotics, murder and so forth.  Clerics of these deities not only oversee the training and initiation of members of the guild, but are high ranking leaders and supervisors within it.   Interestingly, real world guilds actually operated in a quite similar manner to this.  The leftovers of that can be seen in things like modern Masonic lodges.

3) Corporate: The real world pirate brotherhoods operated under this model, and it is most similar to the way modern unions - the philosophical descendants of guilds - operate.  In this model, the leader of the guild is a CEO, and the members of the guild are shareholders in it.  Leaders are subject to review and demotion by the shareholders, and the whole guild operates under a set of bylaws which can (at least in theory) be amended by majority vote.  The main purpose of the guild is to ensure that the conduct of the business (piracy for example) is done in an organized professional highly profitable fashion without trampling on the working conditions of the people at the bottom, and ensuring that in the event of accident that the member will have some sort of payment on discharge or retirement to live off.  Depending on the degree of actual representation that the members of the guild have, and how profits are distributed, this model can be highly democratic or very authoritarian.  Keep in mind that all this apparent devotion to fairness may be done in the service of raping, murdering, and plundering everyone outside of the organization.

4) Revolutionary: The idea here is the guild believes that they are the legitimate government, and that the current government is illegitimate.  As such, it sees no problem disobeying the laws of the current government.  It tries to set itself up as an alternative government, with an alternative judicial system and alternative tax laws.   The Mafia actually started out with this structure back in Sicily, and the depending on what sort of government that they want to overthrow and what they want to set up you may have anything here from Robin Hood and his Merry Men to ISIL.

5) Gang: This is structure without structure.  It tends to be a fairly early stage of development of the institution, usually just first or second generation before morphing into one of the above.  The early signs of where it is heading may be present.  It's also typically indicative of complete, if perhaps localized, social collapse.  Basically, this is just a band of brotherhood, that allies together to protect itself, often from similar institutions.  If there is any government left, its relationship to the gangs is from the gangs perspective indistinguishable from its relationship to other gangs.   A good example is 19th century New York, where the police force actually literally was one of the gangs (yes, the NYPD really did start out as a street gang).  Alternatively, for a more modern example, LA in the 60's and 70's, and most cities in modern Latin America.  In the middle ages, gang structures typically developed in the aftermath of wars, when the kings no longer needed mercenaries.  Large mercenary companies soon found themselves out of work, and with no possessions.  Few had savings or skills necessary to rejoin society - which had a rigid social structure anyway - and if they hadn't been cheated out of their pay by the noble, then they tended to have squandered their money and then claimed that they'd been cheated out of their pay because it made a good story.   The result was you'd end up with bands of armed men roaming the country side living as bandits, extorting the locals and robbing anyone that didn't pay or which seemed like an easy target.

One of the best representations of the inner workings of a thieves guild in literature is Mark Twain's 'The Prince and the Pauper'.  Other excellent reading is Oliver Twist, which features a very realistic gang hiding under its sentimental sometimes sanitized language, and Hugo's 'Les Miserables'.  For game specific reading, the 2e Thieves Handbook is still the best material on a working guild (and probably the best 2e era supplement).


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## der_kluge (Oct 12, 2015)

Wow, thanks for that. I totally didn't consider the The Thieves Handbook.  That does have some really good information.


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## Imaculata (Oct 12, 2015)

I have a nameless thieves guild in my campaign, in the city of Vertesaux. The infamous Ling Goda runs it, -an oriental lady who wears a white kimono, and traverses the coastal city by boat, through its canals. She leads an army of organized urchins, who do all the stealing for her. There's also a rumor that she is quite strict, and punishes the urchins harshly if they disobey her. 

Ling Goda's secret to eluding her enemies is quite devious. There are actually multiple women dressed as her at all times, and her hide out constantly changes location. The players suspect that only one is the real Ling Goda, but in reality, they all are. Ling Goda does not exist. She is a creation by a council of women of many ages, who all take their turns playing the part. The children are her eyes and ears in the city, and they are everywhere.

Ling Goda also commands 3 large ships, although she currently has no ambition to leave Vertesaux.


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## religon (Oct 13, 2015)

Long before the movie "Gangs of New York" was made, I ran an urban campaign with a city infested with a similar group of rival medieval guilds. Gritty. The dwarves were savvy mafia. The various human guilds, brutal, hard-scrabble and tribal.


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## Mick Miller (Feb 10, 2018)

*This is the guild that I'm working on right now.*

[h=1]About the Knot[/h]The Knot is a loose organization of criminals from the town of Argyll.  Its members include pickpockets, burglars, highwaymen, fences, beggars, wizards, priests, prostitutes, and ruffians.  It even includes a few city watchmen and even one or two members of the aldermen’s council.  
Its members are known as Knotsmen or Knotsladies.  
In some ways, the Knot acts as a shadow police force in that it regulates and controls crime and makes sure that not too many people get hurt.  It has been rumored that on occasion the Aldermen’s Council has even hired them to deal with things they wouldn’t want to be seen as being involved with.  
Rarely is anyone killed.  The principal exception to this is out-of-town criminals working without sanction.  That’s usually stopped in short order.  
Many of Argyll’s poor depend on the Knot for their basic needs.  If you are a good bloke and keep your mouth shut and look the other way, you can depend on a bag of cabbages and box of coal being left on your doorstep when things get hard.
If however, you are not such a good bloke . . . it won’t be cabbages showing up at your door.  
The Prince is the leader of Knot.  It would be rare for him to ever commit a crime himself, though no one thinks him incapable.  Rarely is violence necessary to enforce his word, most follow him out of respect.  But, when violence is necessary, it is often swift, painful, and prolonged.  
The Prince’s word is law.  However, he does depend on the advice of the Noose, the thieves’ council.  They recommend, he decides, end of story.  
If you’re a Knotsman, you can count on the Knot to do what they can to get you out of jail, to make sure your family is feed during your incarceration, if you’re hanged, they’ll make sure your widow and kids are provided for.
You can also count on the Knot for training, equipment, and information.  Need to know the name of a good fence in a faraway town? The Knot can tell you.  Need a little help with your pickpocketing skills?  The Knot can train you.  Need a new set of lockpicks?  You can buy them from the Knot.  
In exchange for these benefits, you are expected to adhere to the Seven Knots (see below).
The primary business of the Knot is smuggling.  A lot of silver and gems come down out of the mountains, and the Knot does it’s best to make sure as much of it as possible avoids the tax man.  The burglary, pocket picking, gambling . . . those are just for cash flow and operating expenses.  
The smuggling business operates out of the offices of the merchant Tommy Hats.  Tommy actually does a good business brokering silver and gems from the Dwarves . . . and he pays the taxes.  But when he sends a load of cabbages or furs you can bet it has a few extra pounds on it.  
Hats owns several warehouses that he uses for storing stolen goods, hiding Knotsmen on the run, illegal gambling, etc.
Most of the time the rank and file Knotsman isn’t involved with any part of the smuggling; that’s the purview of a small cadre, many of which are members of the Noose.  However, from time to time a Knotsman will be asked to play some role in the smuggling operation, such as paying off a tax collector, scouting a meeting place, etc.
[h=1]Thou Shall Knot – The Seven Knots[/h]*Tithing *– Whenever you see a financial gain from a job in the territory, you will give 10% to the Knot.
*Do Not Squeal *– If arrested in the course or as a consequence of a job, you must reveal nothing to the Watch.  Not the identities of your partners, fences, informants or others involved.  
*Report the Loot *– You will honestly report how much money or valuables are taken in a job . . . don’t burn your partners.
*Share and Share alike *– You will share the score equally amongst all your partners, or according to the contribution of each to the job, arranged and agreed upon beforehand.  
*Grease the Palms *– You will share some of your earnings with other Knotsmen who have been taken to the bobs to help pay fines, bribes, bail, etc.
*Contribute* – You will share any valuable information with the Knot, including attractive targets, the location of traps, the activities of the town watch, etc. 
*Brothers* – Even if you hate a fellow Knotsman you will help them with regards to the staying clear of the Watch or when they are at risk.  
The penalty for violating any of the Seven Knots can be as light as a slap and a fine right up to the execution of you and your family and friends.  

[h=1]Family Ties[/h]The Knot uses bits of string, rope, ribbons, etc. to convey messages.  You might find a string tied around a lamp post or notice a doorbell string tied in a knot . . . the kinds and order of the knots let other Knotsmen know something about the area or convey some other message. If you see a piece of rope tied in a bowline hanging from a doorknob, you know that you can sell your loot inside. 

They don’t have to be actual physical knots, they can be drawn or painted as well.


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