# The Epic Game: Character Construction (Phase I)



## Creamsteak (Sep 24, 2002)

Starting Experience: 1,225,000 xp

Starting Wealth: 34,200,000 gp

Maximum Item Value: 8,550,000

Class Levels: ECL +1 Per Class Level

Templates: ECL +1 per +6 to ability scores; or ECL +0.5*(Highest Ability Bonus); whichever is greater

Special Templates: Templates that cannot be taken at level 1, and high level templates (Paragon) use ECL +4/3*(Highest Ability Bonus). (Demilich = ECL +14, Lich = +3, Paragon = ECL +20, Psuedonatural = ECL +30)

Divine Ranks: Divine Ranks can be purchased as if you were purchasing a level. DR 0 has ECL +10, DR 1 had ECL +10 in addition ot DR 0, and divine ranks 2-5 can be bought for ECL +4 each. DR 6 is under "consideration" still.

Monster "Levels": The Hit Dice of a creature + it's level adjustment determines the "Monster Level." In the case of all creatures that have no ability scores more than 2*(Hit Dice)+10, there is no level adjustment. In the case of creatures with ability scores more than 2*(Hit Dice)+10, add the 1/2*(The Difference) to get Level Adjustment.

Ability Score Generation: Point Buy at 48 Points.

Modified Ability Score Generation: You can take a negative to your total point buy for a scant increase in Hit Dice or Character level, but you gain no additional wealth from it. The level adjustments below do not stack with each other.

36 Point buy allows you 1 additional level of experience, but no additional wealth.
30 Point buy allows 2 additional levels of experience, but no additional wealth.
24 Point buy allows 3 additional levels of experience, but no additional wealth.
18 Point buy allows 4 additional levels of experience, but no additional wealth.
12 Point buy allows 5 additional levels of experience, but no additional wealth.
6 Point buy allows 6 additional levels of experience, but no additional wealth.
0 Point buy allows 7 additional levels of experience, but not addiitonal wealth.

Starting with Straight 7s gives you 8 levels.
Starting with Straight 5s gives you 9 levels.
Starting with Straight 3s gives you 10 levels.


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## Crowe9107 (Sep 24, 2002)

Has the DR option been dropped, or same as before?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 24, 2002)

Crowe9107 said:
			
		

> *Has the DR option been dropped, or same as before? *




Sorry, I musta forgot to add it. Ok, I slipped it in now.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 24, 2002)

I'm in-between choices on style for my paladin. I could go with the high-attack-bonus one:

*Solumice Construprare*
*Human Paladin 44/Divine Emissary 6* _1,225,000 xp_
*Hit Dice:* 44d10+220 Paladin, 6d10+30 Divine Emissary (505 hp)
*Initiative:* +5 (+5 Dex)
*Speed:* 30 ft.
*AC:* 25 (+5 Dex, +6 Armor, +4 Shield)
*Attacks:* +20 Favored Weapon +81/+76/+71/+66 melee; Smite Evil +100 melee; or Mighty [60 Str] Composite Longbow +42/+37/+32/+27
*Damage:* +20 Favored Weapon 1d8+45; Smite Evil 1d8+1045; Composite Longbow 1d8+27
*Face/Reach:* 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Detect evil at will, divine inspiration 2/day, granted domain, greater planar ally 1/day, lay on hands 836 hp/day, paladin spells, remove disease 14/day, smite evil 3/day, turn undead
*Special Qualitites:* Associates, aura of courage, code of conduct, divine grace, divine health, special mount
*Saves:* Fort +79, Ref +73, Will +73
*Abilities:* Str 32 (60), Dex 20, Con 20, Int 20, Wis 20, Cha 20 (48)
*Skills:* 
*Feats:* Cleave, Dodge, Expertise, Great Cleave, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Favored Weapon)
*Epic Feats:* Great Smiting (x19)


A modified variant of it with High Health instead of attack bonus (so I can survive after I lose initiative)...

Or I could go with the "rounded" one:

*Solumice Construprare*
*Human Paladin 44/Divine Emissary 6* _1,225,000 xp_
*Hit Dice:* 44d10 (Paladin) + 748 Con + 264 Bonus, 6d10 (Divine Emissary) + 102 Con + 36 Bonus (1405 hp)
*Initiative:* +10 (+10 Dex)
*Speed:* 30 ft. fly 90 ft.
*AC:* 65 (+10 Dex, +19 Armor, +16 Shield, +10 Natural)
*Attacks:* Favored Weapon +57/+52/+47/+42 Melee; Favored Weapon +50/+45/+40/+35 Ranged; or Smite +75
*Damage:* Favored Weapon +22, Favored Weapon +5, Smite +1022
*Face/Reach:* 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Detect evil at will, divine inspiration 2/day, granted domain, greater planar ally 1/day, lay on hands 836 hp/day, paladin spells, remove disease 14/day, smite evil 3/day, turn undead
*Special Qualitites:* Associates, aura of courage, code of conduct, divine grace, divine health, special mount
*Saves:* Fort +61, Ref +48, Will +55
*Abilities:* Str 20 (34), Dex 16 (30), Con 20 (44), Int 20 (34), Wis 20 (34), Cha 22 (46)
*Skills:* 
*Feats:* Cleave, Dodge, Expertise, Great Cleave, Mobility, Power Attack, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Favored Weapon)
*Epic Feats:* Great Smiting (x19)

The differences are hard to tell, since I didn't include the different lists of magic items.

I think, since he's the only one interested, I might be working with Sollir. Anyone else think my alignment's gonna have to change?


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 24, 2002)

I'd be interested, but I'm not a god. Would you use a rather big mount?


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## Creamsteak (Sep 24, 2002)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> *I'd be interested, but I'm not a god. Would you use a rather big mount?  *




Quite possibly...


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## Zack2216 (Sep 24, 2002)

New seed
Seed: Empower
Transmutation
Spellcraft DC: 14
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 minute
range: touch
target: creature or weapon touched
Duration:20 minutes
Saving throw: will negates
Spell Resistance: yes

you can enchant a natural or artificial weapon (or weapons in the case of natural) with magical energy, giving it a +1 enhancement bonus to attacks and damage rolls. This allows you to penetrate +1 or weaker damage reduction. Alternatively, you can affect up to fifty bullets, arrows, or bolts. If you are a good aligned divine caster, the weapon is considered blessed.
You can increase the enhancement bonus by +1 by adding +1 to the spellcraft DC. Once the enhancement bonus reaches +5, you must add +3 to the Spellcraft DC for each additional +1 to the enhancement bonus (ie. a +10 enhancement bonus would have a DC of 34)

Gaea's Energy Claws
Transmutation, Evocation (Acid, Fire, Electricity, Cold, or Sonic)
Spellcraft DC:35
Components: V,S
Casting time: 100 days, 11 minutes
range: touch
target: weapon or living creature touched
Duration: Permenant
Saving throw: will, harmless
Spell resistance: yes
To develope:315,000 gp,12,600 xp,7 days
Seed: Empower (DC 14), Energy (19) Factors: +14 to enhancement bonus (total +15) (+32), +3d6 energy (total +5d6) (+6), x5 permanent. Increase casting time by 10 minutes (-20); Burn 10,000 exp. (-100); increase casting time by 100 days (-200)

This spell allows the caster to enchant a weapon or natural weapon permenantly (in the case of a natural weapon, it can be dispelled and resumed by the enchanted at will. Also, If the caster is to assume a different form (polymorph, shapechange, or wildshape) this spell stays in effect, and the enchanted can choose what natural weapon (or weapons) is/are effected. 

The enchanted weapon has a +15 enhancement bonus to attack and damage, and adds +5d6 energy damage of the chosen single element (chosen apon casting) to damage. This extra energy damage isn't increased during a crit(I think...). 

Note, natural weapons enchanted and used in this way harm the enchanted by the listed elemental damage if they aren't protected from it.

I used the energy aura option from the enrgy seed to add elemental damage to the weapons damage. I was wondering, should there be some ad hoc in there? just curious. I thought that if it is a natural weapon and you get harmed by the spell for using it, then it would make up for the possible ad hoc, even though high level casters can easily protect against its affects. But it's too bad that druid minions don't get this benifit.

When I had cast it, I cast it on myself and chose sonic damage.

Storm Crow 
Chaotic Neutral with good tendancies
Human Paragon level 1 monk/28 druid
Hit dice 1d8+28d8+348+780 (1160)
Initiative +13 (dex)
Speed 180'
AC 116 (22 e.b.++26 wis+ 13 dex+5 nat+12 insight+12 luck+ 16 r.o.p.)
Attacks: unarmed strike +74/+69/+64
damage: 6d6 (1d6 bludg.+5d6 sonic)+50
Face/reach: 5'by5'/5'
speacial attacks:-
Speacial qualities: blindsight 120', control weather (3 mile radius), unarmed strike,stunning attack 1/day, evasion, haste 3/day, greater dispelling 3/day, see invisibility 3/day, Wildshape 10/day(tiny-colossaul, animals, dragons, beasts)/4/day(any elemental, small through colassaul)
Saves: fort +47, ref +35, Will +53
abilities: str 40, dex 36, con 50, wis 62, int 43, cha 41

Ability score breakdown:
Strength- 8 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, + 12 amulet of relentless might
Dexterity- 8 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +8 circlet of ages
Constition- 18 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +12 amulet of relentless might
Wisdom-18 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +16 circlet of ages, +1 age, +7 level
Intelligence- 16 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +6 circlet of ages, 
+1 age
Charisma-14 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +1 age, +6 circlet of ages

skills:
Monk, 4 ranks each(this isn't included in the calculations below)
dex-balance-+13(human)+20(boots)
str-climb-+15(human)+20(boots)
con-concentration-+20(human)+10(paragon)
int-craft(woodworking)-+16+10(paragon)
cha-diplomacy-+15+10(paragon)
dex-escape artist-+13+10
dex-hide-+13+40
str-jump-+15+10
int-knowledge(arcane)-+16+10
wis-listen-+26+10
dex-move silently+13+40
cha-perform-+15+10
wis-proffession(herbalism)-+26+10
str-swim-+15-+10
dex-tumble-+13+10

Druid, 31 ranks each(this isn't included in the calculations below)
cha-animal empathy-+16+10
con-concentration-+20+10
int-craft(woodworking)-+16+10
cha-diplomacy-+15+10
cha-handle animal-+15+10
wis-heal-+26+10
wis-intuit direction-+26+10
int-knowledge(nature)-+16+10
wis-proffesion(herbalism)-+26+10
int-scry-+16+10
int-spellcraft-+16+10

Feats
extend spell, empower spell, natural spell, snatch, blindsight (120'), extra wildshape, permanent emanation (control weather), gargantuan wildshape, colossal wildshape, improved elemental wildshape, beast wildshape, epic spellcasting, combat casting, improved combat casting, dragon wildshape

Spells:
0-6;1-12;2-12;3-11;4-11;5-11;6-10;7-9;8-9;9-9
Save dc 36 +spell level

Stuff!(equipment listing & price)
Circlet of ages ( jade circlet) 5,096,000
+16 wis, +8 dex, +6 int, +6 cha (wilding clasp attached)
Nature's Fury (staff) 500000
Epic bracers of armor +22 4,840,000
(note: I have a wilding clasp on each bracer so that I gain the armor bonus in wildshape)
Amulet of relentless might 4384,000 (wilding clasp attached)
+12 str, +12 con
Ring of Protection +16 5,120,000 (wilding clasp attached)
Ring of Universal elemental immunity 2,160,000 (wilding clasp attached)
8 wilding clasps 32 k (4 k each)
Boots of swiftness 256,000 (wilding clasp attached x2)
Mantle of great stealth 242,000(wilding clasp attached)
Bag of holding type 4 10,000
holds:
nature's fury (already accounted for)
staff of life x2 260,000 (130,000 each)
Staff of the Hierophants 501,187
cabinet of feasting 288,000
63 scrolls (8 spells each) of maximized, empowered, admixtured(sonic), daylong(or whatever it's called that makes the spell last all day), greater call lightning(450 damage, save dc 27)

My home: a druid grove. I live in a very large woodshaped tree that acomodates many (at most me and 10 guests). The outlying area is densely wooded with trees as large as mine (to hide mine). In my 'back yard' I have a standing stone circle, with a natural spring in the center( not very deep). In the spring, a stone pedastal stands (which is where I make my offerings to use the standing stones). Surrounding My Home, I always have 4-9 shambling mounds on guard (which last 14 months instead of 7) 
Standing stones:
shambler(57,750), heal(42,350), Greater scrying (42,350), transport via plants(33,600), control weather (42,350), true reincarnate(57,750)
The sacrifice for the standing stones(all of them) is the burning of several berries, that can be found in bushes in the surrounding wood.

My last 1,285,853 gp horde is inside my home.

Favored forms for combat: as in, if there is enough room, zack turns into one of these guys...

Advanced gold dragon
77d12; 170 AC (-8 size,+76 natural, +26 wis, +22 bracers, +16 ring of prot., +4 dex, +12 luck, +12 insight)
48d10 80' cone of fire(or cone of weakening gas, 24 str damage) ref DC 90; Fear DC63; 71 spell resistance; 55/+10 DR
120' land, 600' fly, 120' swim; 84 stength, 18 dex, 69 con
Fire subtype, water breathing, immune to sleep and paralysis
720' blinsight, 2,400' darkvision
Attack: +88 bite, +87 claw x2, +86 wing x2, +86 tail
Damage: 13d6+72 bite, 4d8 +5d6+53 claw, 9d6+53 wing, 4d8+5d6+90 tail
Feats: alertness, cleave, improved init, power attack, weapon focus(claw), flyby attack, hover, snatch(24d6 throw), wingover, improved flight, multiattack, improved spell capacity x7, great strength, improved spell resistance x7

Advanced silver dragon
76d12; 169 ac (-8 size,+75 natural, +26 wis, +22 bracers, +16 ring of prot., +4 dex, +12 luck, +12 insight)
48d8 cone 80' cone of cold(or paralyzing gas 1d6+24 rounds)
ref dc 89; Fear dc 63; 70 SR; 55/+10 DR
80' land, 500' fly; 80 str, 18 dex, 67 con
immune to acid, cold, sleep, and paralysis; cloudwaling
720' blinsight, 2,400' darkvision
Attack: +86 bite, +85 claw x2, +84 wing x2, +84 tail
Damage: 13d6+70 bite, 4d8 +5d6+52 claw, 9d6+52 wing, 4d8+5d6+87 tail
Feats: alertness, cleave, improved init, power attack, weapon focus(claw), flyby attack, hover, snatch(24d6 throw), wingover, improved flight, multiattack, improved spell capacity x7, great strength, improved spell resistance x7

Advanced Blue Dragon
78d12; 171 AC(-8 size,+77 natural, +26 wis, +22 bracers, +16 ring of prot., +4 dex, +12 luck, +12 insight)
50d8 160' line of lightning ref 89; fear dc 64; 71 SR;55/+10 DR
80' land, 500' fly, 40' burrow; 78 str, 18 dex, 65 con
immune to lightning, sound imitation
750' Blindsight, 2,500' darkvision
Attack: +85 bite, +84 claw x2, +83 wing x2, +83 tail
Damage: 13d6+69 bite, 4d8 +5d6+52 claw, 9d6+52 wing, 4d8+5d6+86 tail
Feats: alertness, cleave, improved init, power attack, weapon focus(claw), flyby attack, hover, snatch(24d6 throw), wingover, improved flight, multiattack, improved spell capacity x7, great strength, improved spell resistance x7

Advanced Green Dragon
77d12; 170 AC(-8 size,+76 natural, +26 wis, +22 bracers, +16 ring of prot., +4 dex, +12 luck, +12 insight)
50d6 80' acid cone ref 88; fear dc 63; SR 70; 55/+9 DR
80' land, 500' fly, 80' swim; 78 str, 18 dex, 65 con
immune to acid, water breathing, immune to sleep and paralize
750' Blindsight, 2,500' darkvision
Attack: +85 bite, +84 claw x2, +83 wing x2, +83 tail
Damage: 13d6+69 bite, 4d8 +5d6+52 claw, 9d6+52 wing, 4d8+5d6+86 tail
Feats: alertness, cleave, improved init, power attack, weapon focus(claw), flyby attack, hover, snatch(24d6 throw), wingover, improved flight, multiattack, improved spell capacity x7, great strength, improved spell resistance x7

I am also familiar with
all paragon elementals of CR 50 or less(including primal)

Origin...
During my early years, I was sneared at by the other children because of my inferior strength of body and dexterity. I chose to train under a foriegner that lived outside our village, so that I may be able to defend myself and those I loved. Alas, I got what I wanted, the ability to defend myself, because the training didn't help me strengthen my body. Soon after my first level of training was complete, my village was attacked by a dragon and its small horde of fire giants. My village was raized, all those I knew wereeither taken into slavery or slaughtered. I was able to use what little training I had to escape into the wood. However, the dragon that led the army flew to the clearing ahead of me to stop my travel. Now that I could see it, it was huge, with red scales and glowing, fiery eyes."You cannot escape puny one. Your village will pay for that which they have done to the rest of my clutch! None shall survive!" As he said this he swung his great claw at me. As he swung down, almost instantly, an earthy hand of great size met the dragons on rushing claw. The earth began to tremble, and I fell. The earth rose beneath my feet as the hand extended further into the air, forcing the claw back. Soon, an entire body rose aswell, pushing the dragon back further. I was burried by rocks and I fell uncontious. I felt myself falling. I opened my eyes, and I was lying on a field of grass. The horizon and sky were twilight, and I could see stars. The plain I was on appeared to be an isle floating in midair by magic. The grass was turquoise green, tall, and wavy. There was a tree aswell, of great size. The bark was normal, but the leaves were turquoise green aswell. From the tree, a man stepped out, as if the tree was made of water. He was wearing many furs, and was tall and powerful. He was young, but how he wore his face told of many years of struggles. He was holding his arm, which was bleeding profusely. He lurched forward, limping, ignoring his wounds "I have lived many years young one." He said in an old wise voice.:I believe that my time here was well spent. Perhaps..." he coughed hard."Perhaps it is my time, my time to pass on, to join with nature atlast." I stutter, stunned by his presence "What does this have to do with me?" He says "I want you to take my place, to protect nature as I have done for so many years. I want to hand my gift from nature to you." I say "Why have I been chosen? What is so special about me that you decided to pick me out of so many other people?" He says "You are destined for great things my child. Mother Gaea has chosen you as her champion, so that she may live on." He coughs harder now, blood seeping from his wound onto the ground now. "My time is short. For you to recieve this gift, we must make a blood bond, so that my essence can join with yours." He takes out a small knife. "Are you ready?" I say "I have been taught to accept things as they are, that destiny is reality, and that not only is destiny inescapable, but I can shape it. I want to protect those I love, to be strong... Yes, I am ready. Through nature I will be able to reach my goals." He says "Good, because now is the time." He puts a gash into is hand, and then takes mine and does the same. His hand gripped mine tightly, with a with a crushing grasp. His body began to glow with green light. Wind began to blow towards me from all directions, causing my hair to flurry about above me. The glow traveled fro his torso, slowly to and down his arm. As the energy drained into his body, his grip seemed to lessen, and my grip slowly began to tighten. He aged rapidly. You could see his vitality drain as his strength drained into me. And it was done. He fell immediately to the ground, having lost all strength in his body. He had died. I felt my wound close almost immediately. I head a voice from within me."You now have an obligation. Remember, your strength can be taken away as quickly as it has been given." I felt my mind and spirit stir within me as his spirit joined with mine. "We are now one..."
    I entered the tree, and I immediately stepped out into the forest I had been in earlier. There, I saw much blood on the ground, aswell as the now sleign re dragon. There were several piles of earth strewn about. The dragon appeared to have been dead for several hours. In the distance, towards my village, smoke was still rising, but not as much so as earlier. I ran, now much faster than earlier, towards my village. It had been deserted a short while ago, everyone was either taken or dead. Strange, I wanted to weep, to feel sorrow for my fallen loved ones, but it was as if something was holding be back. I searched, and found nothing left of value in the village.
    And so I left. I haven't been back since, although now I am able to mourn for the fallen. I haven't seen that little village since then, let alone remember it's name. It's been so long...
   Since then I have been travelling the world, and I have done great things, just as that man told I was destined for. Now I begin another chapter in my history...

Basically, during a dragon raid I was saved by a divine emissary of nature. His spirit joined with mine, giving me the paragon template and changing my alignment from Lawful good to Chaotic Neutral with good tendancies.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 24, 2002)

*ugh.. pain that druid =] But Druids are honorable and cool so nice job!*


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## Kalanyr (Sep 24, 2002)

Luithi could use a divine emissary, Solumice Construprare looks good for the job. However there is the minor problem of the one step alignment rule.


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## Zack2216 (Sep 24, 2002)

Yay! I did a good job! 

Hopefully now I can keep up with our divine party members.(that is if I haven't already surpassed them...)


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 24, 2002)

Maybe I'm just dense, Zack, but don't you have to take also Dragon wild shape feat to turn into a dragon? Besides, the Dragon you listed aren't colossal anymore, they're colossal+. I think gold reach colossal+ at 50 hd, silver at 52, green at 53 and blue at 54.

That doesn't solve the problem, anyway: what's the point in being a dragon if a druid with 16 HD less than me can turn into a better dragon than me?


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## Dalamar (Sep 24, 2002)

Name still unkown
*Outsider (Human) Monk 45/Hero 5*
*Hit Dice:* 45d8+5d4+500 (694 hp)
*Initiative:* +17 (Dex)
*Speed:* 250ft, climb 125ft
*Armor Class:* 65 (+17 Dex, +9 Monk, +16 Wis, +10 _bracers_, +3 Deflection)
*Attacks:* Unarmed +47/+44/+41/+38+35 melee; or Flurry of Blows +45/+45/+42/+39/+36/+33 melee
*Damage:* Unarmed d20+11 slashing+4d6 fire+3d6 sonic (threat range 18-20/x2) (see items)
*Face/Reach:* 5ft by 5ft/5ft (or 10ft unarmed)
*Special Attacks:* _Abundant Step_, Ghost Touch, Haste, Heightened Accuracy (Unarmed), Increased Reach (Unarmed), _Ki_ Strike +3, Quivering Palm, Unarmed Strike, Stunning Attack
*Special Qualities:* Diamond Body, Diamond Soul, Empty Body, Enhanced Vision, Fast Recovery, Heightened Defenses, Improved Evasion, Inechaustible Endurance, Leap of the Clouds, Perfect Self, Purity of Body, Self-subsistent, Slow Fall (Any distance), Spiderclimb, Still Mind, Timeless Body, Tongue of the Sun and Moon, Water Breathing, Wholeness of Body
*Saves:* Fort +37, Ref +44, Will +43
*Abilities:* Str (19) 31, Dex (25) 45, Con (19) 31, Int 25, Wis (23) 43, Cha (21) 41
*Skills:* 384 skill points before taking into account any of the raises in Int
*Feats:* Combat Reflexes, Dodge, Expertise, Improved Critical (Unarmed), Leadership, Mobility, Run, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Whirlwind
*Epic Feats:* Epic Speed (x2), Epic Weapon Focus (Unarmed), Exceptional Deflection, Fast Healing (x2), Infinite Deflection, Keen Strike, Penetrate Damage Reduction, Reflect Arrows, Self-concealment (x2), Vorpal Strike

*Abilities*
_Abundant Step:_ Can _Dimension Door_ 2200ft as a spell-like ability.
*Diamond Body:* Immune to poison.
*Diamond Soul:* SR 55
*Empty Body:* _Etherealness_ 45 rounds/day, need not be consecutive. Supernatural.
*Enhanced Vision:* Superpowered, persistent. Gained low-light vision. Base cost 2.
*Fast Recovery:* Superpowered, persistent. Heals twice as fast as normal. Base cost 2.
*Ghost Touch:* Supernatural, persistent. Unarmed attacks affect incorporeal creatures normally. Base cost 5, -1 reduction because supernatural.
*Haste:* Supernatural, persistent. Gains an extra partial action each round, doesn't stack with _haste_. Base cost 12, -1 reduction because supernatural.
*Heightened Accuracy (Unarmed attacks):* Superpowered, persistent. +3 bonus to unarmed attack rolls. Base cost 1, heightened accuracy x2 (4 points), -2 only affects unarmed attacks.
*Heightened Defenses:* Superpowered, persistent. Gains a +3 _deflection_ bonus to AC. Base cost 2, increased effect x2 (4 points).
*Improved Evasion:* No damage on a succesfull Ref save, half damage on a failed one.
*Increased Reach (Unarmed attacks):* Superpowered, persistent. Increase natural reach by 5ft. Base cost 2, -1 because only affects unarmed attacks.
*Inexhaustible Endurance:* Superpowered, persistent. Always succeeds in Constitution checks related to endurance. Can never become fatigued, exhausted. Base cost 4.
_Ki_ *Strike:* Can penetrate Damage Reduction as if attacking with a +3 weapon.
*Leap of the Clouds:* No limit on jumping distance.
*Perfect Self:* Becomes an Outsider, gains darkvision 60ft, DR 20/+1.
*Purity of Body:* Immune to all diseases except magical diseases.
*Quivering Palm:* 1/week. Duration 45 weeks. Fort DC 48. Supernatural.
*Self-subsistent:* Superpowered, persistent. Doesn't need to sleep (base cost 1), drink (base cost 1) or eat (base cost 1).
*Slow Fall:* If within arm's reach of a wall, takes no fall damage.
*Spiderclimb:* Superpowered, external gadget. Can climb any normal surface automatically. +25 climb. Needs to wear climbing claws (Tiny, AC 17, Hardness 5, 1hp). Base cost 5, -2 external gadget.
*Still Mind:* +2 saves against spell and effects of Enchantment school.
*Stunning Attack:* 45/day. Fort DC 48 or stunned. Supernatural.
*Timeless body:* Doesn't suffer penalties due to age, can't be magically aged.
*Tongue of the Sun and Moon:* Can speak with any living creature.
*Unarmed Strike:* Doesn't provoke an AoO when attacking unarmed, Flurry of Blows, can deal subdual damage without penalty.
*Water Breathing:* Superpowered, persistent. Quite self-explanatory. Base cost 1.
*Wholeness of Body:* Can cure up to 90hp, supernatural.

*Possessions*
All Manuals (total 825,000), Gloves of Epic Dex +20 (4,000,000), Headband of Epic Wis +20 (4,000,000), Cloack of Epic Cha +20 (4,000,000), Bracers of Armor +10 (100,000), Vest of Epic Str +12 (1,440,000), Belt of Epic Con (1,440,000)

Fiery Blast, Flaming, Sonic Blast +1 Bracers of Striking (7,841,320)
--Total +14 enchantment
--Counts as a double weapon
--Enchantments gained to unarmed attacks

*Leadership (68)*
40,000 1st level (1/2 commoners, 1/2 warriors)
4,000 2nd level (warriors)
2,000 3rd level (1,000 experts (spies), 1,000 warriors)
1,000 4th level (clerics with healing domain)
500 5th level (monk 3)
250 6th level (monk 4)
130 7th level (monk 5)
70 8th level (monk 6)
40 9th level (monk 7)
20 10th level (monk 8)
10 11th level (monk 9)
Total of 48,020 followers

Cohort level 39 (monk 34/hero 5)


Details of school kept will be on a different post


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## Dalamar (Sep 24, 2002)

Uh, Zack, you're a 51st level character AND you should've spent the XP to research that epic spell of yours


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 24, 2002)

mmm Re-reading my post above I noticed it could be misunderstood, so I'll make myself clear. Zack you have a wondeful character concept and you made a very good character with it. I just wanted to point out a little imprecision. It's my character who isn't really much more useful now. I'll probably think of something else


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## Creamsteak (Sep 25, 2002)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> *mmm Re-reading my post above I noticed it could be misunderstood, so I'll make myself clear. Zack you have a wondeful character concept and you made a very good character with it. I just wanted to point out a little imprecision. It's my character who isn't really much more useful now. I'll probably think of something else  *




See... this is a problem I have with the really high level game. Thier are only a few concepts that work up into epic levels well. For instance, eventually epic mages must cast epic spells to hurt enemies of thier level. It's the only option, because it's the only way they can raise thier Spell DCs faster than a fighter's saving throws... or as fast for the matter.

Saving Throws: +1/2
Ability Score Progression: +1/4
Spell DCs: +1 every 8th level, if you put all stats into Ability Score progression....

So at level 520, the Fighter has a +256 Will Save, Base...

The level 520 wizard, without taking tons and tons of feats particularly to raise his spell DCs, or to raise his ability scores, or taking some prestige class that gets bonus to spell DCs... can only cast an average 9th level spell with a DC of 19+125+20... on average. So the DC doesn't even come close...

Unless the wizard is crunched specifically to raise spell DCs, or doesn't take any bolsterinng otherwise. But what did the fighter do for his protection? Absolutely nothing...

And don't even let me tell you (let alone show you) how much damage an appropriately trained paladin or blackguard can cause in a single attack, compared to average HP at that level.

Crunched to level 500... with a meager 99 feats in Greater Smiting... you can cause 50,000 damage, and if you took an appropriate prestige class, you can do it A FUGGIN LOTTA TIMES PER DAY. I bet I could press the character enough and get the damage up to 100,000 damage... You'd need (on a d8 hd), a 402 Constitution... (though that might be plausable with items...) to counter it. But the paladin next door, who didn't max out on smiting, and tried to be "well rounded" can't cause more than 5000 points of smite damage a round, and although he has a ton of tricks, he has none that can truely deal the damage appropriately.

If high level play "kills your concept" let's talk. There has to be some way to fix it... given some careful adjusting.


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## Zack2216 (Sep 25, 2002)

Dalamar:


> Uh, Zack, you're a 51st level character AND you should've spent the XP to research that epic spell of yours




How did you get that? 28 levels of druid, 1 level of monk, 20 levels paragon, and 22,600 exp for my epic spell. I changed the information on it as soon as I found that paragon was +20. Just look through it again.

And Lichtenhart, err... I aplogize for ruining your character idea.


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## Lichtenhart (Sep 25, 2002)

ANGEL QUALITIES
  Spell-like Abilities: All angels possess the spell-like abilities listed under the half-celestial template (see the Monster Manual, page 213).
  Immunities (Ex): All angels are immune to poison, disease, electricity, cold, acid, petrification, and spells and effects of the Enchantment school.
  Resistances (Ex): All angels have fire resistance of 20.
  Keen Vision (Ex): All angels have low-light vision and 120-foot darkvision.
  Summon Angel (Sp): All angels possess the capacity to summon fellow angels. This ability is usable once per day, and is equivalent to the summon monster spell of a level equal to one half the conjuring angel's HD. So, an Angel of the Eighth Order could use summon monster V, because they normally have 11 HD. This ability is usable once per day. Chance of success is a percentage equal to 5 x the angel's HD.
  Telepathy (Su): All angels can communicate telepathically with any creature within 100 feet that has a language.
  Tongues (Su): All angels have a permanent tongues ability as the spell cast by a 12th level sorcerer.

SERAPHIM
Large Outsider (Good, Lawful)
Hit Dice: 20d8+120 (210 hp)
Initiative: +9 (+5 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative)
Speed: Fly 60 ft. (perfect)
AC: 30 (+5 Dex, +16 natural, -1 size)
Attacks: Purifying flame +25/+20/+15/+10/+5 ranged
Damage: Purifying flame 2d10
Face/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Spells, spell-like abilities, summon angel
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 30/+3, SR 32, regeneration 15, angel qualities, immunity to fire
Abilities: Str 27, Dex 20, Con 23, Int 25, Wis 25, Cha 25
Saves: Fort +18, Ref +17, Will +19
Skills: Bluff +28, Concentration +26, Escape Artist +25, Hide +25, Knowledge (any five) +27, Listen +35, Move Silently +25, Search +25, Sense Motive +35, Spellcraft +20, Spot +35
Feats: Cleave, Dodge, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative, Power Attack
Climate/Terrain: Any land or underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 20
Treasure: Double goods; standard items
Alignment: Always lawful good
Advancement Range: 21-30 (Large); 31-40 HD (Huge)

Seraphim, referred to in ancient tomes as the "burning ones," are known to take the form of beautiful serpent-shaped streams of golden fire, from which light emanates in all directions. Seraphs are the angels of love, light, and fire. The Order of Seraphim is the highest order in the Celestial Hierarchy and the elite of the Heavenly Hosts.

Combat
  Spell-Like Abilities: At will-bless, commune, consecrate, continual flame, dimensional anchor, dismissal, greater dispelling, holy smite, holy word, improved invisibility (self only), lesser restoration, light, magic circle against evil, remove curse, remove disease, remove fear, shapechange, speak with dead, teleport without error (self plus 50 pounds of objects only) and wall of fire; 3/day-heal, power word (any) and resurrection; 1/day-greater restoration, miracle, and symbol. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 20th level sorcerer (save DC 17 + spell level). 
  The following abilities are always active on a Seraph's person, as the spells cast by a 20th level sorcerer: detect evil, detect magic, detect snares and pits, discern lies, see invisibility, and true seeing. 
  Spells: Seraphs have the spell abilities of a 20th level cleric (save DC 17 + spell level) with access to the domains of Air, Good, Fire, Law, and Sun.
  Purifying Flame (Su): Seraphim can extend their essence as a stream of sparkling fire to strike any creature within 100 feet of their person, causing 2d10 points of damage to any creature struck. Evil creatures also suffer the effects of a holy smite spell. Those whom the Seraph designates as friendly receive the state amount in restored HP and immediately receive the benefits of a heal spell, looses all negative levels, and regains lost ability scores (the same creature cannot be so affected more than once in a day).
  Immunity to Fire: Seraphim are completely immune to fire, magical and otherwise.
  Skills: Seraphim receive a +8 racial bonus to Listen and Spot checks.



What do you think of it?


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## perivas (Sep 25, 2002)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *
> 
> See... this is a problem I have with the really high level game. Thier are only a few concepts that work up into epic levels well. For instance, eventually epic mages must cast epic spells to hurt enemies of thier level. It's the only option, because it's the only way they can raise thier Spell DCs faster than a fighter's saving throws... or as fast for the matter.
> 
> ...




I'm not quite sure that your accessment is correct.  Let's talk a look at the 50th level example.  Okay, so the save bonus for a 50th level character is around +30.

Now, let's look at the caster's DC at 50th level.  Given that the defender did not up their defensive stat, but saved their ability score increases for their own purposes.  So, at 50th level, the caster has a 30 in the ability score of choice (18 + 50/4 = 30).  That's a +10 to DC.  Now the 50th level caster has 19th level spells, as he has level 9 at 20th and plus 1/3 thereafter.  That makes the DCs for the highest level spell for the 50th level caster, without feats to be 39 (10+19 for level of spell+10 for ability score).  This is not much different than a 1st level caster against a 1st level defender without high stats.


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## Creamsteak (Sep 25, 2002)

perivas said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm not quite sure that your accessment is correct.  Let's talk a look at the 50th level example.  Okay, so the save bonus for a 50th level character is around +30.
> 
> Now, let's look at the caster's DC at 50th level.  Given that the defender did not up their defensive stat, but saved their ability score increases for their own purposes.  So, at 50th level, the caster has a 30 in the ability score of choice (18 + 50/4 = 30).  That's a +10 to DC.  Now the 50th level caster has 19th level spells, as he has level 9 at 20th and plus 1/3 thereafter.  That makes the DCs for the highest level spell for the 50th level caster, without feats to be 39 (10+19 for level of spell+10 for ability score).  This is not much different than a 1st level caster against a 1st level defender without high stats. *




But a 50th level character can (and IMO should) buy a +28 cloak of resistance, granting them one hell of a difference there. Then again a crunched wizard can do some crazy stuff themselves, not so much with items, but WAY too much with some PrCs. +1 DC every 5 levels is fine, maybe 4... rarely 3, but when I see +1 DC every other level it drives me nuts.

All this is just IMO though... since I've never played it in action beyond rolling up a battle to decide results.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 25, 2002)

> That makes the DCs for the highest level spell for the 50th level caster, without feats to be 39 (10+19 for level of spell+10 for ability score).




The problem with that particular strategy is that it costs Heighten Spell  + Improved Heighten Spell feats and taking Improved Spell Capacity each time. This means that the most damaging spell with this DC does 25d8, with a Fort save for half. Now, Fort vs Fighter is never a good choice, assuming the fighter saves a mere 3/4 of the time, not at all unreasonable, the average heightened horrid wilting inflicts 70 points of damage on the fighter. Now even if this is changed to a ref save and the fighter flubs every time its still a mere 112.5 on average. Not gonna bother a 50th level fighter much if at all.  

Also playing a diety is becoming more pathetic the more levels over Divine Rank 1 you dump into it, unless  you dump all your stat points in charisma and do insane divine blast damage and have a *frickin* high AC. And even this  requires a mere one divine rank.


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## perivas (Sep 25, 2002)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The problem with that particular strategy is that it costs Heighten Spell  + Improved Heighten Spell feats and taking Improved Spell Capacity each time. This means that the most damaging spell with this DC does 25d8, with a Fort save for half. Now, Fort vs Fighter is never a good choice, assuming the fighter saves a mere 3/4 of the time, not at all unreasonable, the average heightened horrid wilting inflicts 70 points of damage on the fighter. Now even if this is changed to a ref save and the fighter flubs every time its still a mere 112.5 on average. Not gonna bother a 50th level fighter much if at all.*




Having considered your arguments and looking at the characters already posted, I have to agree that it's impossible to overcome the saves.  Please note though that using damage-oriented spells would be utterly foolish for any spellcaster.  With the options at hand, you would elect more power dweomers, such as dominate monster and the like, which upon a failed save would grant one an instant victory.

Keeping this in mind, what does the DM propose to fix this problem of low DCs in an epic campaign, while not dooming the defenders to instant deaths upon failure?

I would suggest the following feat:

Improved Spellbinding:  Allows the caster to increase the DC of a spell.  The DC improvement of a spell is equal to the number of levels of difference of the spent slot and the original level of the spell times three.  For example:  using a 9th level slot to cast a charm person spell increases the DC to become 10 + ability score + 1 + 8 * 3 = 35 + ability score.

Is that too much for the modifier?  I tried using a factor of two, but it seemed a bit inadequate.  Considering a 50th level caster would be able to use a 19th level spell slot for a first level spell to create a DC of 10 + 1 + 18 * 3 + ability score = 55 + ability score.  Keep in mind that this is a first level spell, which can't really do much to a person.  To do something interesting, you would need to use probably a higher level spell.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 25, 2002)

This is what I'm thinking now:

Rogue 10, Wizard 10, Arcane Trickster 10, Fighter 4, Assassin 6, Soulreaver (Dragon Mag.) 10

Human/Lich (24 Point Buy)

I'm probably going to drop the Psion. Maybe... I can't make up my mind.


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 25, 2002)

Paragorn infernal with 3 as base stats =]


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## Dalamar (Sep 25, 2002)

Zack2216 said:
			
		

> *How did you get that? 28 levels of druid, 1 level of monk, 20 levels paragon, and 22,600 exp for my epic spell. I changed the information on it as soon as I found that paragon was +20. Just look through it again.*



It was still level 30 druid when I wrote the message. It's just fine now.


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## Macbrea (Sep 25, 2002)

will rework a character.


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## GoldenEagle (Sep 25, 2002)

*Benzar Mercadium*

I was looking for a way to tie into other characters.  I picked a paragon Human Wizard whose cohort will have a level of monk.  I thought that would be a great tie to Storm Crow if that is okay with you Zack.  I am looking for cool suggestions on Feats and Equipment.  I am leaning towards maxing out all the empower spell type stuff and automatic spell type feats.  I like the idea of a feat mentioned earlier to raise DC of spells.  I don't see this character being a fighter first, but a seeker of knowledge and someone to right wrongs (who can kick butt if need be) but prefers parlay to fighting.  

Any feedback or ideas?

Paragon Human Wizard (may add Loremaster or Arch Mage?)/ 31 levels (30 pt buy) with some exp to create items.

Neutral Good
Human Paragon level 1 monk/28 druid
Hit dice 31d4(max – paragon) +372+con bonus
Initiative
Speed 30’
AC 
Attacks: 
Damage: 
Face/reach: 5'by5'/5'
Special attacks:
Special qualities:
Saves: fort +, ref +, Will +
abilities: str 23 , dex 23, con 36 , wis 37, int 50 , cha 39

Ability score breakdown:
Strength- 3 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, (is it allowed to take down to 3?)
Dexterity- 3 base, +15 paragon, +5 book,
Constitution- 16 base, +15 paragon, +5 book,
Wisdom-16 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +1 age, 
Intelligence- 22 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +7 level+1 age
Charisma-18 base, +15 paragon, +5 book, +1 age,

skills:
+10 to each Check (Paragon)

Feats
Human
2 Bonus – Paragon
1,3,5,6,9,10,12,15,15,18,20,21,24,25



Spells:

63 Learned Spells


Equipment 
All 6 Manuals and Tomes (+5 to Ability Scores) – 825,000


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## The Forsaken One (Sep 25, 2002)

MacBrea how did u get euhh like ALL 9th level psionics as at will sp?


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## Macbrea (Sep 25, 2002)

They are not all 9th level abilities. Some are much lower then that. The way was I am a Psionic Pit Fiend. If you read Psionic template page 139 of the psionics handbook.  

Since, we didn't have a rule for a template that didn't add any stats. This meant I had to take the cost of CR increase based on my HD. Which on a 21 HD Pit fiend would be +4 CR.  This template would be equivalent to Half-Celestial template which is also +4 ECL and grants a huge number of spell-like abilities.  So, in the end I charged myself 4 ECL.   Now, I wouldn't be apposed to some rules being added to actual method in which this template should be added.  As it would only change the psionic powers in which I know.  I would still get 13 psionic powers at will as a spell like ability.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 26, 2002)

/me wonders about the Lawful Neutral Baatezu patron of the Eladrin. 

/me wonders even more.

(Eladrin are the Chaotic Good celestials of Arborea, if you are wondering why I'm asking, a LN Eladrin is about as common as a Chaotic Neutral Baatezu.) 

(Like the idea though)


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## Zack2216 (Sep 26, 2002)

Hey goldeneagle, that sounds like a good idea. Do you know what else your cohort is going to train in?

I wonder, how many people will be in a group... Of course, that all depends on how many people will be playing.


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## Macbrea (Sep 26, 2002)

Ah, you ask... Were do bad faeries go!

They go to me!

If a faerie is viewed by his people as a bad faerie they go to the worst place they could possibly go!

What do I do with them? 

<<Cackles>>

I make monks, scribes, lawyers and judges!

I have an ordered system with rules! More rules then they could ever live by. 

And my rules aren't evil, you could be perfectly good as long as your following the letter of the rules.  


Long ago, Xavier swore an oath to the Eldarin people that he would protect them. And he has lived upto the letter of the law. Their own chaotic nature gets them killed more times then not. It is upto him to take those bad apples in the bunch and reform them.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 26, 2002)

With Improved Spell Capacity you get one extra spell slot, of up to 1 level higher than your highest spell level.

The Divine Spellcaster Divine Salient ability gives you spell slots up to your relevant ability modifier.

Also you can't have a base of 22 as a human, the max is 18.


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## GoldenEagle (Sep 26, 2002)

Zack - I think my cohort with aim towards Guardian Paramount or just straight Fighter.  I haven't decided.  I'm trying to figure out a good back story.  

K - Thanks for the help.  I fixed the stats. How DO I get higher level spell slots then (a feat each time?)? Is there an ability like the one you mentioned for arcane casters?

Thanks

John


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## Zack2216 (Sep 27, 2002)

golden, your cohort should be a monk cleric sacred fist from the cleric handbook. that prestige class is really nifty, you should check it out.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 27, 2002)

GoldenEagle said:
			
		

> *Zack - I think my cohort with aim towards Guardian Paramount or just straight Fighter.  I haven't decided.  I'm trying to figure out a good back story.
> 
> K - Thanks for the help.  I fixed the stats. How DO I get higher level spell slots then (a feat each time?)? Is there an ability like the one you mentioned for arcane casters?
> 
> ...




The above mentioned Divien Salient Ability works for arcane casters too. Just means you need to be a diety of Divine rank 1 or more and spend one of your DSA's on the ability.


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## Kalanyr (Sep 28, 2002)

Hmm, ECL 50 as it works means that the only things worth playing are Paragons, Pseudonaturals, Druids and Bashing People- type and Gods if you boost Charismal to a truly sick level.  Is there anything that can be done about this ?


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## Dalamar (Sep 28, 2002)

For a Hack'n'Slash game, they might be the only viable choices. But for RPing my monk is probobly as good as any of the others. And at epic levels, I don't think most of the game is going to be bashing.


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## Mr. Draco (Sep 28, 2002)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> *Hmm, ECL 50 as it works means that the only things worth playing are Paragons, Pseudonaturals, Druids and Bashing People- type and Gods if you boost Charismal to a truly sick level.  Is there anything that can be done about this ? *




Agreed, and with regards to not having a lot of hack n slash in an epic game, well, there will be some, and what's the use of a character if whenever battle occurs you have to lie down and die?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 29, 2002)

CS/Kal, take a quick look at these templates for Dukes of Hell, Archdevils (note you need Duke of Hell template as well for this), and Lords of the Nine (note you need the Archdevil, and thus Duke of Hell template as well for this) posted by Serge in the House Rules section-tell me if you think they would be acceptable in the epic game and about at what ECL.

Duke of Hell: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=22557
Arch Devil: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=22704
Lord of the Nine: http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=22797


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## Howling Coyote (Sep 29, 2002)

Here's a sketch. I used the 6 point buy option, and took the sixth extra level as experience for epic spell. The stats include all the +5 tomes.

Belian
Old Force Dragon
Colossal Dragon (Force)
Hit Dice: 55d12+1045 (1381) 1503640 xp/1540000 xp
Initiative: +6
Speed: 60 ft., fly 300 ft. (clumsy)
AC: 98 (+20 epic mage armor, +2 dex, -8 size, +54 natural, +20 deflection)
Attacks: Bite +73 melee, 2 claws +72 melee, 2 wings +71 melee, tail slap +71 melee
Damage: Bite 4d8+26, claws 4d6+13, wings 2d8+13, tail slap 4d6+39
Face/Reach: 40ft. by 80 ft./15 ft.
Special Attacks: Crush 4d8+39 (DC 56), tail sweep 2d8+39 (DC 56), breath weapon, frightful presence (DC 57), spells (caster level 24th), spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Immunities, DR 40/+8, SR 45, blindsight, keen senses, deflecting force, displacement (50% miss chance)
Saves: Fort +48, Ref +31, Will +49
Abilities: Str 61, Dex 15, Con 48, Int 50, Wis 51, Cha 51
Skills: Alchemy +35, Appraise +49, Balance +19, Bluff +78, Concentration +49, Diplomacy +84, Disable Device +35, Disguise +51, Escape Artist +52, Heal +35, Hide +15, Innuendo +45, Intimidate +55, Inuit Direction +49, Jump +58, Knowledge (arcana) +78, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +50, Knowledge (geography) +50, Knowledge (history) +78, Knowledge (local) +50, Knowledge (nature) +78, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +50, Knowledge (religion) +50, Knowledge (the planes) +50, Listen +80, Move Silently +17, Open Lock +17, Pick Pocket +23, Scry +50, Search +78, Sense Motive +49, Spellcraft +78, Spot +80, Tumble +21, Wilderness Lore +49
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Craft Wondrous Item, Empower Spell-Like Ability, Epic Spellcasting, Fast Healing, Flyby Attack, Hover, Improved Iniative, Improved Spell Capacity (9th), Maximize Spell-Like Ability, Multiattack, Power Attack, Snatch, Sunder, Weapon Focus (claw), Wingover
Challenge Rating: 37
Alignment: Chaotic Neutral with slight evil tendencies

Human-form
Medium Dragon (Force)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft.
AC: 30 (+20 epic mage armor)
Face/Reach: 5ft. by 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Frightful Presence (DC 57), spells (caster level 24th), spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: Immunities, DR 40/+8, SR 45, blindsight, keen senses
Saves: Fort +29, Ref +29, Will +49
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 10, Int 50, Wis 51, Cha 51
Skills: Alchemy +35, Appraise +49, Balance +17, Bluff +78, Concentration +30, Diplomacy +84, Disable Device +35, Disguise +51, Escape Artist +50, Heal +35, Hide +29, Innuendo +45, Intimidate +55, Inuit Direction +49, Jump +32, Knowledge (arcana) +78, Knowledge (architecture and engineering) +50, Knowledge (geography) +50, Knowledge (history) +78, Knowledge (local) +50, Knowledge (nature) +78, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +50, Knowledge (religion) +50, Knowledge (the planes) +50, Listen +80, Move Silently +15, Open Lock +15, Pick Pocket +21, Scry +50, Search +78, Sense Motive +49, Spellcraft +78, Spot +80, Tumble +19, Wilderness Lore +49
Feats: Alertness, Cleave, Craft Wondrous Item, Empower Spell-Like Ability, Epic Spellcasting, Fast Healing, Improved Iniative, Improved Spell Capacity (9th), Maximize Spell-Like Ability, Power Attack, Sunder

Breath Weapon (Su): Cone of force ,70 ft., damage 40d12 Ref half (DC 56).
Spell-Like Abilities: 3/day-forcecage, Otiluke’s resilient sphere, wall of force. Caster level 24th; save DC 30 + spell level.
Immunities (Ex): Immune to sleep and paralysis, immune to force effects.
Sorcerer Spells Known (6/11/11/11/11/10/10/10/10/10/5; base DC 30 + spell level): 0-arcane mark, dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, ray of frost, read magic, resistance; 1st-charm person, magic missile, protection from law, ray of enfeeblement, unseen servant; 2nd-cat’s grace, detect thoughts, fog cloud, mirror image, web; 3rd-dispel magic, displacement, hold person, suggestion; 4th-fire shield, improved invisibility, polymorph self, scrying; 5th-cone of cold, summon monster V, teleport, transmute rock to mud; 6th-disintegrate, guards and wards, project image; 7th-prismatic spray, spell turning, summon monster VII; 8th-horrid wilting, mind blank, Otto’s irrestible dance; 9th-meteor swarm, power word, kill, time stop; epic-epic mage armor, mass frog.
Possessions: 32466000 gp


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## Janos Audron (Sep 29, 2002)

> Infernal Might (Ex): Although not gods, the fact that each Lord of the Nine rules an entire layer of Hell affords them a grotesque amount of power. While on its layer, each Lord essentially functions as a god, having abilities that give the true deities of Hell pause. Each Lord gains a virtual divine rank equal to half their Charisma modifier. Virtual divine rank grants the Lord benefits associated with attacks, saving throws, checks, immunities, senses, Diabolical Aura, communication, and the ability to manipulate its layer. Some Lords, most notably Dispater, have additional benefits when in their palace or fortress.




With 34.2 M GP starting money, you can buy a nice, Cloak of Charisma + 20 (just 8 M GP), giving you instant DR 5, and that is excluding normal charisma (assuming an 18 here), for a total of DR 7...so if a DR 6 God, a true Intermediate God, with true worshippers, say Selune encounters that Fiend, she cannot target him with mind affecting spells etc. while the devil can...I think that's not really fair, since you already spend ECL 32 to become DR 5, and there is no way to become DR 6 yet.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Sep 29, 2002)

Why would Selune be insane enough to enter Hell?  Besides, I'd say it was natural, non-modified charisma (aka, base+race+leveling+inherent) and not just temporary charisma like from a Cloak of Charisma.

And just because you try to use Dominate Monster or what not on everyone doesn't mean that everyone else things the same way


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## Janos Audron (Sep 29, 2002)

Right, so:

18 (base) + 5 (inherent) + 5 (level) + 16 (rank 0, Archdevil) + 6 (Archdevil) = Cha 50, = +20 Cha mod = DR 10!!!

So, the Archdevil could cast Transmutation Effects, could Ability drain, Level Drain and cause Ability Damage, could Mind Affect, Imprison and Banish Torm and Waukeen, and both of them couldn't do all of the above against him...

And he is equal to Malar, Gond and Mask...meaning he can target them too with the above effects...

Only one option IMO: lower the cost of Divine Ranks :rolleyes

And Selune was a bad example, since she is DR 10+, so just take a random lesser deity...


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## Mr. Draco (Sep 29, 2002)

Well, I've decided to play a Paragon, Psionic Pheonix of Legend / Paladin 1 (with 36 point buy), now to go work out all the stats


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## Deedlit (Sep 30, 2002)

I'll be playing a kender(Tavin's version) Conj50 if it's okay with you
Name: Spellfire Deadfoot
Chaotic Good
During his test, he experienced fear for the first(And last he hopes) time, as he encountered the terrifying Malystryx.  Thinking quickly, and despite the dragonfear, he summoned a dragonlance, and displayed it proudly, making a brave speech about how he wouldn't back down, and that this lance could Really Hurt the dragon.  Thinking him an afflicted kender, Malystryx concluded he must have the power to back up that threat, and flew off.  

Pre-gear Ability scores
6 STR
20 DEX
10 CON
41 INT(Epic INT 9x)
6 WIS(Can I lower it further)
16 CHA


Skills:+68 Spellcraft, +68 Knowledge(Arcana), +68 Knowledge(Uncle Trapspringer.) +30.5 Bluff, +32.5 Hide, +32.5 Move Silently, +34.5 Pickpocket, +25.5 Spot, +30.5 Diplomacy(I have more skillpoints, but with how my INT has increased, I'll add them later.)
Feats:Empower spell, Quicken Spell, Maximize Spell, Augment Summoning, Epic INT(9x), Epic spell, Improved capacity(9x).
More to come in the future.


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## Mr. Draco (Sep 30, 2002)

These stats are with items:

Paragon, Psionic Pheonix of Legend, Paladin 1 (36 point buy)

Str: 66 (+28)
Dex: 60 (+25)
Con: 60 (+25)
Int: 52 (+21)
Wis: 50 (+20)
Cha: 60 (+25)

Saves:
Fortitude: +85
Reflex: +85
Will: +74

AC: 105
Initiative: 34

Attacks:
Bite: +103 melee
2 Claws: +103 melee

Damage:
Bite: 2d6+48
Claw: 1d8+48

Feats:

Ambidexterity, 2-weapon fighting, improved 2-weapon fighting, greater 2-weapon fighting, improved initiative, multiattack, still spell, hover, empower spell, enlarge spell, extend spell, persistant spell, maximize spell, combat reflexes, dodge, power attack, expertise, quicken spell-like ability (teleport without error), quicken spell-like ability (heal), flyby attack

Epic feats:

Perfect 2-weapon fighting, tenacious spell (mind blank), tenacious spell (true seeing)

Psionic Powers: at will- temporal velocity, time regression, true telekineses, shapechange, mind blank, teleport without error, true seeing, genesis, quintessence, amplified invisibility, dimension anchor, freedom of movement, improved anchored navigation

Speed: 90ft, 1,200ft fly (average)

Equipment:

6 Tome +5

2 Talon Bracers +16
+16 enchantment bonus to attacks made with the talon (counts as a bracer for purposes of magic items worn)

amulet of tearing +16
+16 enchantment bonus to bite attacks

Ring of warding
+12 Con
Instantly raises an AMF if the wearer is about to be affected with a Mord's Disjunction or Greater Dispelling

Boots of swiftness
Doubles speed
Grants evasion
jumping distance not limited by height
+20 balance, climb, jump, tumble
3/day- haste (20 rounds) command word
+12 Dex
constant kaupaer's skittish nerves

Mantle of Protection
+12 Wis
+5 resistance bonus to saves
+5 luck bonus to saves

Ring of universal energy immunity
Immunity to all Elements

Robe of Power
+12 str
Constant Divine Power

Helm of Epic Charisma
+12 Cha

Headband of Epic Intelligence
+12 Int

Vestment +20
+20 Armor bonus (as armor enchantment)

+10 Animated Large Steel Shield

Luithi's Traveling Pack
Rod of Security
658,830gp


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## Mr. Draco (Oct 2, 2002)

Are people still interested in participating/DMing an epic game?  (just curious, as nobody's posted in the past couple of days, compared with the activity earlier...)


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## Kalanyr (Oct 2, 2002)

When your character concept gets reduced to utter worthlessness and the only viable option seems to be play a tank or sickening munchkiness, I just seem to lose interest.   

I was looking forward to this but ECL 50 just wrecks any creature that relies on special abilites. (exception Paragon and Pseudonatural who get a significant boost to hit and damage and AC that compensates for their ECL loss.)


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 2, 2002)

*Maybe toning it down a bit?*

I kinda have to agree.

I think I would actually prefer about 25th level to test the Epic waters.

Kalanyr is right IMHO. As I developed my character, concept took a back seat to functionality. Thats not how I prefer to play, but seemed necessary just to survive.

I never made up my mind what I wanted to play. I actually wanted to play an assassin type character, but I wasn't sure he would be able to hold his own around the other characters.

Can I vote for a 22-27th level game? Maybe if the others want to play 50th level, we could split into two seperate games.


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## Macbrea (Oct 2, 2002)

Yup, suffered a similar problem. Didn't want to create a monster in order to test Epic play.  I would prefer we test it with just the following books as choices. 


PHB, DMG (No races), PsiH, Splat books, ELH (no races). 

And I agree on the 25-27 range.


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## The Forsaken One (Oct 2, 2002)

25-27 is fine with me  DMG PHB PsiHB (MM for some basic humanoid races like kobolds or something if someone wants, nothing to fancy but standard +ECL like Drow orso I don't see a prob with..)

And splatbooks is ok with me


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## Lichtenhart (Oct 2, 2002)

I'd like to tone down the level too.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 2, 2002)

Can I suggest that we allow Wizard's Official website as a source as well? They did a lot to improve upon some of the mess in the Psionics Handbook.

The Mind's eye is a great feature!


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 2, 2002)

Creamsteak? Your thoughts?

Time for Phase II?


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## The Forsaken One (Oct 2, 2002)

I''m for the Mind eye, kinda like a psionic splatbook IMO.


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## Deedlit (Oct 2, 2002)

I actually want it as a level 50 game.  Though you may need to work hard for a concept to be functional, I don't want a game at 22-27 levels, but a game where you face gods regularly and my character could quite literally summon Malystryx, or an a small army.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 2, 2002)

Its really up to the DMs. We may need to split.

Personally, I'll likely drop out if we play with 50th level characters. 

I had two things occure to me that made me loose interest:

1. I could reduce Waterdeep to rubble with 2 power points, and I had almost 1,000.

2. I could not think of anything that could kill my character.  

I just have a hard time identifying with, and getting into, a character that has a level of power so great as to make him nothing even remotely human even when he is, in fact, still a human.


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## Creamsteak (Oct 3, 2002)

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *Creamsteak? Your thoughts?
> 
> Time for Phase II? *




Most definitely. It is good to see that most of the players have given up on the childish idea of even remotely considering playing in levels 40+. Very good to know.

But, I'm considering droping out myself. I don't have any real reason to keep myself spread so thin. I play in 1 game that I am at least dedicated to (the psionicle), and I run 2 games that I enjoy running (IR, which needs more attention, and the backup game, which is just that).


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Oct 3, 2002)

1. This is easy to replicate, though not at the same cost as you.

2. I can give about 10 examples that are ECL 50, want me to give em to you?  ^_^

As for my opinion, I think ECL 50 is a bit much, ECL 30 or 35 might be better suited for this game IMO.


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## Kalanyr (Oct 3, 2002)

I liked the original Level 37. Most of us have 37th level characters already done up also.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 3, 2002)

My vote still goes to level 27. 

Of course, if we don't have a DM, the point is kinda moot.


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## Zack2216 (Oct 4, 2002)

I think that we should atleast try to make 50 work. Yes character concepts run dry as some, well, to put it bluntly, trample others. I think that it is possible to work past that, and should be tried. Weilding great power doesn't mean we have to use it, but we must be curtious enough to not use it constantly without regard of the consequences. If a player does, then we can do something about it. It's not like the gods wander around randomly destroying cities...(I think. Maybe they do. I don't think they would. Fearun is still there isn't it?)

Please with sugar on top? 

Sorry, had to get that out of my system...


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## Kalanyr (Oct 4, 2002)

I don't really object to level 50 I just object to the way it renders non-munchkin characters who aren't Druids or Fighter-types pretty much helpless  (except for some of the funny scaling spells/powers like Control Winds that get rather powerful and the Paragon and Pseudonatural template).

Also the second problem is that their are rather huge gulfs in the power levels just between party members, while these characters don't necessarily have to wield it, no one wants to play a 1st level commoner in a party of 5th level fighters even though the fighters don't have to use their feats.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 4, 2002)

Initially we had a lot of people interested in this.

My suggestion, if we can get 2 DMs, is to split the game in half.

Just create a seperate game for 25-27th level and go ahead with the 50th level game. Heck. You could even play in both if you wanted.


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## Howling Coyote (Oct 4, 2002)

I think the reasonable think would be to lower the ECL too. We can make near godly munchkins with lower ECLs too, but they probably would still be more "fleshy". If you think about it level 50 characters can pretty much get everything they desire, and almost none can stand up to them. So watch their goal, to rule the world or even the universe, or maybe save them from a similar super power, that's pretty much it.


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## Zorkion (Oct 5, 2002)

Personally, I think ECL around 35 would be pretty ideal.  It'd leave a lot of room for experiment, and would still allow most character concepts.  The question is if anybody would be willing to DM a game like that.


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## Creamsteak (Oct 5, 2002)

Zorkion said:
			
		

> *Personally, I think ECL around 35 would be pretty ideal.  It'd leave a lot of room for experiment, and would still allow most character concepts.  The question is if anybody would be willing to DM a game like that. *




That is my favored range as well. Levels 21-27 don't really seem "that" epic to me. They seem Dragon Slaying Epic, but not Destroy a lord of the nine epic. 28-38 is where I would consider hunting down a lord of the nine who was "weakened" for some reason. Beyond that though... your challenging gods... which is just not fun.

I really can't run this game and everything else I already do, so I won't run it. I will be perfectly fine with being a VERY helpful player though. I could easily draw up maps, write story hooks, and all the fun stuff, but I don't want to be the question answering guy.


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## Mr. Draco (Oct 5, 2002)

Oops, Zorkion was actually me, I accidentally left the computer logged in on my brother's account.


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## Ashrem Bayle (Oct 7, 2002)

As much as I hate to, I'll be dropping out of this one.

It occured to me how much I was overextending myself.

I'm already in four other games.  

Good luck guys! Have fun! The looks like it will be a blast.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Oct 8, 2002)

If you want I can attempt to run the game, although under strict circumstances-It has to be stationary, but this might not be so bad, it would be like a large tournament where the epic characters can compete, true ressurections after matches-alot of gold at stake in matches, different kinds of events.  Also, a couple of adventures inside the area, but not alot of adventuring outwards.  It would be easy to adjucate since most fighters would do most of the battles themselves, with the DM only stepping in if they fight NPCs, for reactions of the crowd, moderating the fights, and similar.  I would ask to play in this environment too, but someone else would judge, during the fights I would do.


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## Zack2216 (Oct 8, 2002)

It would be nice to test out our characters, but I was hoping to do more than tourny. Well, you can't have everything...


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## Zack2216 (Oct 13, 2002)

silent wind of doom! -bumb- err, I mean, whoosh!


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