# Spell Focus: Conjuration



## Thanee (Dec 29, 2003)

Since the Augment Summoning feat has Spell Focus: Conjuration as a prerequisite (only god knows why it needs to be "balanced" with such a hefty cost), I wondered, what to do with that feat.

What spells are there (besides the Calling range of spells, where it is more or less pointless) that will actually make use of the DC boost?

Bye
Thanee


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## Crothian (Dec 29, 2003)

Last summer we hada  conjurer in our group who found a good amount of spells in the conjuring school that had DCs from other sources like Quint Wizard, R&R, and other third party books.


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## Agent.0.Fortune (Dec 29, 2003)

It rocks for Cleric summoners since inflict spells are conjuring.


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## jgsugden (Dec 29, 2003)

There are a few for wizards and sorcerers, but clerics and druids find very few conjuration spells with saving throws.

I dealt with this via a *house rule*: Spell Focus can grant one of three advantages (selected when the feat is takes):

1.) Increase the DC of spells of that school by 1,

2.) Increase the caster level of spells of that school by 1, or

3.) You may cast/prepare 1 additional spell (in that school) from a level that you may normally cast.

This change allows spell focus to be useful for schools that typically do not have saving throws attached to a majority of their spells (conjuration, divination, abjuration, etc ...)


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## shilsen (Dec 29, 2003)

Thanee said:
			
		

> What spells are there (besides the Calling range of spells, where it is more or less pointless) that will actually make use of the DC boost?
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Some nice spells just from the PHB.

*1st:* Grease
*2nd:* Glitterdust, Web
*3rd:* Stinking Cloud
*5th:* Cloudkill, Wall of Stone
*6th:* Wall of Iron
*7th:* Plane Shift
*8th:* Incendiary Cloud, Trap the Soul


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## Pielorinho (Dec 29, 2003)

Nice list, shilsen.  I'll point out that several of these spells are fantastic.  Glitterdust lets you blind several opponents at once, which is almost better than fireballing them -- a fireball doesn't take them out of the fight as surely as blinding them does.  And web is wonderful for dividing and conquering, especially if you've cast Freedom of Movement on the party tank (who can then charge through the webs with impunity, fighting monsters one-on-one).

Grease?  Tons of fun.  Cast it on the cleric's holy symbol, the archer's bow, the wizard's favorite wand.  Or cast it on the ground in front of you, and point and laugh as the bad guys tumble at your feet.

And Plane Shift is great.  Undead creatures can always get an insta-tan on the positive material plane, and just about any bad guy can benefit from the plane of fire.  Sure, you won't get their loot, and if they survive you've made yourself a real enemy; but when it works, oh, the satisfaction.

Ironically, druids, who receive the most benefit from augment summoning, receive very little benefit from SF:  conjuration.  As near as I can tell, the only spells they have that benefit from this feat are as follows:
-The various cure spells, when cast on undead.  Not a tactic often used in my experience -- druids get the spells later than clerics and can't spontaneously cast them, and often rely on wands for their healing; wands are unaffected by the feat.
-Neutralize poison and delay poison when cast on a poison-using creature.  Never seen it in play, but it'd be cool in a very specialized setting.
-Wall of stone when used to trap a victim.  Again, never seen it in play, but it could be nice -- although for the cost, there are much better ways of trapping people (wall of thorns, for example)
-Fire Seeds and Storm of Vengeance, for the less-important effects of each spell.
-Word of Recall, when used to recall an item in someone else's possession.  Not that common an occurrence .

Any I missed?  Druids have plenty of conjuration magic, but few of their conjuration spells have saves; if they take this feat, it's almost exclusively for the huge benefits they reap from augment summoning.

Daniel


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## Kid Charlemagne (Dec 29, 2003)

I'm playing a 3rd level Conjurer these days, and making incredibly good use out of Grease and Glitterdust.


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## shilsen (Dec 30, 2003)

Kid Charlemagne said:
			
		

> I'm playing a 3rd level Conjurer these days, and making incredibly good use out of Grease and Glitterdust.




Those are two of my favorite Sor/Wiz spells, with a lot of useful application, as Pielorinho pointed out above. Wait till you get to use the Fog-type spells, which are some of the more underused spells in the game. Solid Fog is brilliant for tactical usage. Esp. if you have a couple of pals to sling fireballs and the like into the fog


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## Thanee (Dec 30, 2003)

Thank you! 

Now these are mostly Sor/Wiz spells, is there anything useful for a druid as well (the obvious class choice for Augment Summoning, I suppose)?

Bye
Thanee


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## Thanee (Dec 30, 2003)

shilsen said:
			
		

> Wait till you get to use the Fog-type spells, which are some of the more underused spells in the game.




Hehe, I used Solid Fog once as a DM to seperate the party from the rest during an ambush. The funniest part was when the party wizard mentioned AFTER the party had moved out of the darn foggy slowness, he just remembered, that he had a Dimension Door spell prepared! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Pielorinho (Dec 30, 2003)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Now these are mostly Sor/Wiz spells, is there anything useful for a druid as well (the obvious class choice for Augment Summoning, I suppose)?



I think my list of druid conjurations with saves, in my previous post, is comprehensive.  Basically, you get minor benefits with the more-or-less all-purpose wall of stone, fire seeds, and storm of vengeance, and vs. undead you get a benefit with the various cures and _heal_, and vs. poison-using monsters you get a benefit.  The druid all-purpose spells, however -- entangle, flamestrike, magic fang, call lightning, summon nature's ally, etc. -- don't benefit.

Daniel


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## MeepoTheMighty (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm currently playing a Conjurer/Druid with the eventual aim of taking Mystic Theurge.  That way, I can use the benefits of Spell Focus with the wizard spells, and Augment Summoning with the mostly superior druid summoning spells.  I keep assuring the rest of the party that I'll be powerful eventually


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## Thanee (Dec 31, 2003)

Oops, I must have missed that during my quick reading, Pielorinho. Sorry! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Darklone (Jan 1, 2004)

MeepoTheMighty said:
			
		

> I'm currently playing a Conjurer/Druid with the eventual aim of taking Mystic Theurge.  That way, I can use the benefits of Spell Focus with the wizard spells, and Augment Summoning with the mostly superior druid summoning spells.  I keep assuring the rest of the party that I'll be powerful eventually



Meepo, play a kobold and try to persuade your DM to use the race as ECL -1


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## Al'Kelhar (Jan 2, 2004)

The druid IMC has Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning.  As noted by other posters, SF:Conjuration is largely useless for druids except in specific circumstances, but trust me, Augment Summoning in the hands of a druid or other caster of _summon nature's ally_ spells needs a "useless" feat prereq to balance it.  _Summon nature's ally_ spells are generally better, level for level, than _summon monster_ spells - in my experience, a level n _summon nature's ally_ is roughly equivalent to a level n+1 _summon monster_.  Augment Summoning doesn't add insult to injury, it adds injury to injury.

Cheers, Al'Kelhar


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## andargor (Jan 2, 2004)

Just as a reference, these are the Conjuration spells from various sources which require a saving throw:


```
name                             level                      reference
Avalanche                         Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 6, Earth 6        R&R2
Bed Bug Bites                     Brd 2, Clr 2, Drd 1, Rgr 1, Sor/WR&R2
Beetle Swarm                      Sor/Wiz 5                        R&R2
Bombardment                       Drd 8                            MoF p82
Breath of Death                   Drd 5, Plant 6                   R&R2
Burden of Faith                   Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 5                 R&R2
Call Aquatic Humanoid I           Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3                 R&R
Call Aquatic Humanoid II          Brd 6, Sor/Wiz 6                 R&R
Call Aquatic Monster              Sor/Wiz 5                        R&R
Chains of Binding                 Sor/Wiz 3                        R&R2
Choke                             Sor/Wiz 2                        T&B p86
Cloudkill                         Sor/Wiz 5                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Cobwebs                           Sor/Wiz 1                        R&R2
Cocoon                            Brd 8                            MoF p85
Drown                             Drd 6                            MoF p90
Enduring Webs                     Sor/Wiz 4                        R&R2
Filch                             Brd 0, Sor/Wiz 0                 R&R2
Fire Spiders                      Sor/Wiz 6                        MoF p94
Freezing Claw                     Sor/Wiz 6                        BoEM
Gas Cloud                         Sor/Wiz 3                        R&R
Gembomb                           Gnome 2, Trade 2                 FR p70
Glitterdust                       Brd 2, Sor/Wiz 2                 RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Glue                              Sor/Wiz 1                        R&R
Grease                            Brd 1, Sor/Wiz 1                 RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Ice Knife                         Sor/Wiz 2                        T&B p91
Igedrazaar's Miasma               Sor/Wiz 2                        MoF p101
Incendiary Cloud                  Fire 8, Sor/Wiz 8                RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Iron Butterflies                  Fey 4, Sor/Wiz 4                 R&R2
Maelstrom                         Ocean 8                          FR p72
Magma Burst                       Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9                 BoEM
Mestil's Acid Breath              Sor/Wiz 3                        MoF p108
Missile Storm                     Sor/Wiz 3                        R&R2
Pillar of Attraction/Repulsion    Sor/Wiz 5                        R&R
Planar Binding                    Sor/Wiz 6                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Planar Binding, Greater           Sor/Wiz 8                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Planar Binding, Lesser            Sor/Wiz 5                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Plane Shift                       Clr 5, Sor/Wiz 7                 RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Poison Vines                      Drd 7                            MoF p111
Sepia Snake Sigil                 Brd 3, Sor/Wiz 3                 RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Slime Wave                        Clr 7, Drd 7                     DotF p89,MotW p93
Spectral Stag                     Clr 2 (Malar)                    MoF p120
Stinking Cloud                    Sor/Wiz 3                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Stone Assault                     Clr 8, Drd 7, Earth 7            R&R2
Stonehold                         Drd 6                            MoF p124
Storm of Vengeance                Drd 9, Clr 9                     RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Stun Ray                          Sor/Wiz 1                        Annual #5 p23
Sudden Wave                       Drd 6, Sor/Wiz 6                 BoEM2 p49
Tanil's Spectral Archers          Rgr 3, Sor/Wiz 4                 R&R2
Teleport Object                   Sor/Wiz 7                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Tendrils of Eternal Night         Sor/Wiz 9                        R&R2
Trap the Soul                     Sor/Wiz 8                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Verminplague                      Destruction 4, Sor/Wiz 4         R&R
Vine Mine                         Drd 5                            MoF p130
Wall of Hornets                   Drd 3                            R&R
Wall of Iron                      Sor/Wiz 6                        RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Wall of Stone                     Adp 5, Clr 5, Drd 6, Earth 5, SorRSRD SpellListII & Spells
Waterspout                        Ocean 7                          FR p75
Web                               Adp 2, Sor/Wiz 2                 RSRD SpellListII & Spells
Web Sphere                        Sor/Wiz 1                        R&R2
Zajimarn's Avalanche              Sor/Wiz 9                        MoF p134
```

Andargor


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## Ridley's Cohort (Jan 2, 2004)

Al'Kelhar said:
			
		

> The druid IMC has Spell Focus: Conjuration and Augment Summoning.  As noted by other posters, SF:Conjuration is largely useless for druids except in specific circumstances, but trust me, Augment Summoning in the hands of a druid or other caster of _summon nature's ally_ spells needs a "useless" feat prereq to balance it.  _Summon nature's ally_ spells are generally better, level for level, than _summon monster_ spells - in my experience, a level n _summon nature's ally_ is roughly equivalent to a level n+1 _summon monster_.  Augment Summoning doesn't add insult to injury, it adds injury to injury.




I am not seeing it.  You may be right about the Augment Summoning bit.  But the SNA_n_ critters seem to be usually inferior to SM_n_ equivalents.  

A Wolf _may_ be just a bit better than a Celestial Badger, but an Ape is certainly weaker than a Fiendish Ape.  Energy resistance, DR, and being able to hit as a magic weapon are nice benefits at higher levels. 

Having SR gives a SM critter a chance at cracking through a spell of protection/magic circle or shrug off a spell from a secondary caster.  A measly caster level 1 wand of protection from X is 100% foolproof versus most SNA critters -- not so for Summoned Monsters.  Furthermore, Summoned Monsters are more likely to have ranged attacks.

I am curious why you believe so strongly SNA is better.


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## Pielorinho (Jan 2, 2004)

Thanks for the great list, andorger!

*Ridley*, are you using 3.5?  In the new rules, druids get their (untemplated) creatures a level or so before anyone else gets their (templated) creatures.

Summon Monster III gets you fiendish/celestial crocodiles, boars, dire badgers, and dire bats, and wolverines.  SNA II gets you the untemplated versions of each of these.

When it comes to elementals, SNA is even better:  small at II, medium at IV, large at V, huge at VI, greater at VII, and elder at IX.  SM gets them all (except for elder) one level later.  And here they're getting exactly the same creature, not a templated version of the creature.

Daniel


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## Ridley's Cohort (Jan 2, 2004)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> *Ridley*, are you using 3.5?  In the new rules, druids get their (untemplated) creatures a level or so before anyone else gets their (templated) creatures.




Yes.  I guess the question is what value you put on SR and DR.

And there is still the nitpicky question of what happens when someone casts Protection from Evil from a 750 gp wand and hedges out your animal completely.


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## Ferret (Jan 2, 2004)

Your fgocusing too much on SM, most animals can pass straight through magic protection things because they lack alignment.


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## Pielorinho (Jan 2, 2004)

Actually, *Ferret*, that's not exactly true.  From the SRD:



> Third, the spell prevents bodily contact by summoned creatures. This causes the natural weapon attacks of such creatures to fail and the creatures to recoil if such attacks require touching the warded creature. Good summoned creatures are immune to this effect. The protection against contact by summoned creatures ends if the warded creature makes an attack against or tries to force the barrier against the blocked creature. Spell resistance can allow a creature to overcome this protection and touch the warded creature.





 Animals aren't good, nor are elementals; Ridley is right that this is a concern for druids.

In my experience, however, it's not too much of an awful issue, for the following reasons:

Druids are often summoning things for flanking bonuses; even if the creature can't hit you, it still flanks you.
If you can get a spellcaster to spend one round casting a spell like protection from evil, you've often got an advantage, and can spend that round casting something decent like flame strike, entangle, etc.
If necessary, you've always got your dispel magic to fall back on; if a caster casts PfE from a wand, you're almost certain to succeed on your caster level check.
Since druids can summon spontaneously, they've got some options:  arrowhawks, with their ranged touch attack, don't care much about PfE.
Definitely it's not a bad tactic to use when you'll be facing a druid or another summoner (although I'd recommend instead getting the party cleric to cast Magic Circle vs. Evil -- it can protect multiple people, it lasts a lot longer, and if it's cast by a person, it's significantly more difficult to dispel).  But, as a veteran druid player, I find the ability to summon spontaneously gives a great deal of power and flexibility to the class; augment summoning is a great feat in this case.

Daniel


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## Ridley's Cohort (Jan 2, 2004)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> But, as a veteran druid player, I find the ability to summon spontaneously gives a great deal of power and flexibility to the class; augment summoning is a great feat in this case.




(Sorry to hijack the thread....)  As a newbie druid, I am curious what are your favorite critters to summon.  I will probably pick up the weaker version of Augment Summoning from T&B (+1 HP per HD, +1 attack/dmg rolls).  Thoughts?


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## Nail (Jan 2, 2004)

Ridley's Cohort said:
			
		

> (Sorry to hijack the thread....)  As a newbie druid, I am curious what are your favorite critters to summon.  I will probably pick up the weaker version of Augment Summoning from T&B (+1 HP per HD, +1 attack/dmg rolls).  Thoughts?



RC: If you're going this route, it's worth your time to write out a chart of a few of the relevant stats of each monster on your list and at least one useful Ex or Su ability.  I play a Clr 7 who focuses on buffing his comrades...and Summon Monster II, III, & IV have been very useful, especially now that I have their big stats (HP,AC,& Atks) penciled into my PH.  (There is enough room in the summon monster table!)

I'm afraid I don't have my PH with me right now, or I'd type it up.  IIRC, Riding Dogs, Bisons, Dire Bats, and Apes are quite handy.  The effectiveness of bisons surprised me, as did the reach of those blessed apes.  (Hey, I'm a good cleric; my apes are celestial!)   

FWIW, Pielorinho is absolutely right about SNA and SM; SNA is better, over all.  Much of that is because the lower level SMs don't get DR from the Celestial template.  

Heh.  Except the Dire Bats.  They get DR.  Heh.


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## Legildur (Jan 5, 2004)

Nail said:
			
		

> ....The effectiveness of bisons surprised me....




Hehehehehe.  The DM in one of my games got sick and tired of seeing Celestial Bison being summoned by our good Cleric.  In fact, so sick and tired that following a TPK and a change of character types for most players, the new Cleric player was warned by the DM that there were no longer any Celestial Bison to be summoned - as they'd all been used up!!!!


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## paranoid (Jan 5, 2004)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> Animals aren't good, nor are elementals; Ridley is right that this is a concern for druids.




sorry to be nit-picking here, but usually foes tend to cast protection from *good*, which is weaker than PfE. From the SRD:


> This spell functions like protection from evil, except that the deflection and resistance bonuses apply to attacks from good creatures, and good summoned creatures cannot touch the subject



.
So neutral critters can't attack creature with PfG, but they can attack those with PfE/L/C.

-p.


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## paranoid (Jan 5, 2004)

Nail said:
			
		

> RC: If you're going this route, it's worth your time to write out a chart of a few of the relevant stats of each monster on your list and at least one useful Ex or Su ability.  I play a Clr 7 who focuses on buffing his comrades...and Summon Monster II, III, & IV have been very useful, especially now that I have their big stats (HP,AC,& Atks) penciled into my PH.  (There is enough room in the summon monster table!)




[advertisement]
for that purpose, I created a spreadsheet, which I'd like to point out to you. Unfortunately, I did not yet complete the Summon Nature's Ally equivalent   (holidays are always too short...)
[/advertisement]


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## Hypersmurf (Jan 5, 2004)

paranoid said:
			
		

> sorry to be nit-picking here, but usually foes tend to cast protection from *good*, which is weaker than PfE.




Strictly by the wording, Protection from Good is _more_ powerful than the others.

The other three spells reference Protection from Evil.

PfE prevents contact by Summoned creatures.  Good Summoned creatures are immune to this effect.

PfG is as PfE... except Good Summoned creatures cannot touch the subject.  All Summoned creatures except Good, plus Good Summoned creatures, is _all Summoned creatures_.

PfL is as PfE... except Lawful Summoned creatures cannot touch the subject.  All Summoned creatures except Good, plus Lawful Summoned creatures, is... all Summoned creatures except Good, just like PfE.

Same goes for PfC - it ends up just like PfE.

They screwed up the wording horribly.  PfC _should_ allow contact by Lawful Summoned creatures... but that's not how they wrote it.  PfC _shouldn't_ allow contact by Good Summoned creatures... but it does, given how they wrote it.

They screwed up, and consequently, PfG is more powerful than the others, and PfL and PfC behave counter-intuitively.

But if you house-rule it to how it _should_ have been written - actually rewriting PfE but substituting any instance of "Good" and "Evil" for the appropriate alignments, instead of "as PfE except" and screwing up the exceptions - they're all of equal power.

Regardless - _all four_ spells will hedge out a Summoned Neutral creature (likean animal or elemental) even as written.

-Hyp.


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