# Collaborative Cave!



## der_kluge (May 19, 2006)

In this thread Mark CMG has decided to take a hiatus from the "Cooperative Dungeon" project, and not to interfere with the name "Cooperative Dungeon" I'm going to tentatively call this "Collaborative Cave!". 

So, I've created a map






Which we can use a starting point. I'm happy to reduce the number of encounter areas if people think there are too many. 

I'd like to make this around a CR 8/9 dungeon, home of a green dragon.

Actually, what I was thinking was that it could be the home of TWO young green dragons. Let's face it, nothing will instill more fear and dread into the hearts of players when they step into the dragon's lair and find TWO of the beasts there.

I should add that I have personal reasons for wanting this. The players IMC have seen a green dragon, and know where his cave is, but couldn't get across the ravine I had placed there (area 3), so left. I figured I would go ahead and draw out the entire cavern complex, and then spotted the recent thread about the Cooperative project and submitted my map since I had just recently completed it.

That said, I'm open to suggestions, alterations, whatever. It's not set in stone. If we decide Black dragons are a better fit, we can go with black dragons. If we want to put the dragon's lair in area 11, and not area 17 (as someone suggested in the other thread), I'm cool with that too. The idea of a swimming dragon using the underground pools to sneak up behind a party I find particularly vicious and evil.

One could even easily modify the dungeon for higher levels, and place a very large dragon ni area 17, and that dragon's young children in the pool area around areas 6-11. That would be cruel and unusual.

But, for our purpose, I'd like to keep it simple, and stick with a "low-ish" CR of around 8-9 since the mid levels are more common than the high ones.

I welcome your input.


*ROOM SIGN UP*
Room 1 - der_kluge (EL 6/0) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2853575&postcount=145
Room 2 - Scribble. (EL n/a) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2844239&postcount=66
Room 2a - Elephant. (north passage, EL 5, south passage, EL 8) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2846124&postcount=95
Room 3 - Whizbang Dustyboots. http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2859265&postcount=159
Room 4 - Ilium. http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3036199&postcount=243
Room 5 - der_kluge (EL 6)  http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3033242&postcount=242
Room 6 - Raven Crowking http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2854295&postcount=148
Room 7 - Elephant. (EL 6) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3055831&postcount=250
Room 8 - der_kluge (dragon's lair, EL 11). http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2844714&postcount=84
Room 9 - der_kluge (EL 10) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2876968&postcount=202
Room 10 - der_kluge http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3028248&postcount=238
Room 11 - Roger. (EL 9) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3071894&postcount=259
Room 12 - der_kluge (EL 6) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3076562&postcount=264


Change log: 
*5/19* - reduced the number of numbered rooms to 12, from 17.
*5/23* - Expanded area 4 to partially be under area 3, increased the size of area 3. Widened some of the passageways. "flooded" the depression in area 12.
*5/24* -  Added a "2a" designation.


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## der_kluge (May 19, 2006)

Oh, for those who might not be familiar with the "Cooperative Dungeon" projects, the premise is simple:

Start with a map, and then assign out individual rooms to contributors who spec out their chosen room.

During the process, room owners can collaborate with each other to ensure consistency. Once complete, the entire thing is compiled and published in some form.

Mark CMG has devoted his time to the previous Cooperative Dungeons, and they are freely available from his website, here:
http://www.creativemountaingames.com/modules.php?name=Downloads

In writing up a room description, each author gives it a boxed text, and provides all relevant stats and features of the area, including monster stats, traps, treasure found, or other pertinent information.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 19, 2006)

You gotta go with a (for the cave) high end NPC with the dragonkith prestige class who serves as the dragons' chief servant/liaison to the outside world. I'd make her a winged dragonwrought kobold (Races of the Dragon), but I mostly just think the prestige class is bitchin'.


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## der_kluge (May 19, 2006)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> You gotta go with a (for the cave) high end NPC with the dragonkith prestige class who serves as the dragons' chief servant/liaison to the outside world. I'd make her a winged dragonwrought kobold (Races of the Dragon), but I mostly just think the prestige class is bitchin'.




Well, in order to be published, contents of said cave can only be culled from OGL sources. So, a winged dragonwrought kobold just wouldn't be an option.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 19, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Well, in order to be published, contents of said cave can only be culled from OGL sources. So, a winged dragonwrought kobold just wouldn't be an option.



I'm going to have to ask you to leave logic out of this.

OK, a kobold major domo (probably with the dragon disciple PrC, just because) then.


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## EricNoah (May 19, 2006)

That map is flippin' awesome.  Great use of color.


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## Wycen (May 19, 2006)

For draconic variants, you've got the half-dragon template, the dragon-thingy prestige class and then using the open content from Unearthed Arcana the dragon bloodline stuff, so you aren't as limited as one might think.  The hypertext SRD has the bloodline stuff.


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## Krieg (May 19, 2006)

Wycen said:
			
		

> For draconic variants, you've got the half-dragon template, the dragon-thingy prestige class and then using the open content from Unearthed Arcana the dragon bloodline stuff, so you aren't as limited as one might think.




I don't think he _wants_ draconic variants added to the mix. It sounds like he's looking for a generally straightforward dragon encounter without too much added froo froo.

Still something _else_ cohabitating in a symbiotic relationship would be cool. Carrion crawlers...or some other pack of beasties that the dragon(s) leaves alone since they do a good job of cleaning up "messes" and aren't a threat to it's (their) treasure...


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## der_kluge (May 19, 2006)

Krieg said:
			
		

> I don't think he _wants_ draconic variants added to the mix. It sounds like he's looking for a generally straightforward dragon encounter without too much added froo froo.
> 
> Still something _else_ cohabitating in a symbiotic relationship would be cool. Carrion crawlers...or some other pack of beasties that the dragon(s) leaves alone since they do a good job of cleaning up "messes" and aren't a threat to it's (their) treasure...




Yes. Thank you. Let's keep it simple.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 19, 2006)

Krieg said:
			
		

> I don't think he _wants_ draconic variants added to the mix. It sounds like he's looking for a generally straightforward dragon encounter without too much added froo froo.
> 
> Still something _else_ cohabitating in a symbiotic relationship would be cool. Carrion crawlers...or some other pack of beasties that the dragon(s) leaves alone since they do a good job of cleaning up "messes" and aren't a threat to it's (their) treasure...



Green dragons enjoy lording it over other beings, though, so I'd think at least some of the dungeon would contain servants/slaves like the aforementioned kobold servant. Carrion crawlers are good, but don't they require more frequent feeding than a dragon is likely to provide them? Gelatinous cubes at the bottom of that ravine, though, and a kobold cleaning crew might keep things orderly.

Being as it's a cave system that requires swimming to penetrate, I couldn't see anything like bat swarms thriving after room #1.


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## der_kluge (May 19, 2006)

What are people's thoughts on the rooms?  Too many?  Ok?


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## Arnwyn (May 19, 2006)

The number of rooms is fine, IMO. I despise linear complexes, and what you have above allows for an appropriate number of player "decisions", IMO.

And it's damn cool, too.

(Disclaimer: Just my opinion, based on things I like.)


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## der_kluge (May 19, 2006)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> The number of rooms is fine, IMO. I despise linear complexes, and what you have above allows for an appropriate number of player "decisions", IMO.
> 
> And it's damn cool, too.
> 
> (Disclaimer: Just my opinion, based on things I like.)





Thanks. I went ahead and reduced the number of numbered rooms to 12. I think it's a little better now. Some of the rooms were kind of small, and their descriptions can be included in nearby rooms, if needed.

I also added a room signup sheet at the top.


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## der_kluge (May 20, 2006)

Just a little bump for the weekend crowd.


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## blargney the second (May 20, 2006)

Which way does the water flow in rooms 6, 8, and 10?  Also, I love it when adventures have a Scale This Encounter for each encounter.  It's pretty straightforward, but vastly increases the utility of an adventure.

-blarg


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## Scribble (May 20, 2006)

I'd like to take room 2 if no one else wants it?


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## Tonguez (May 20, 2006)

I agree - awesome Map.

So anyway I've never participated in a Collaborative Dungeon but I do love caves.

So do we establish a theme for the cave? or at least a Cave type?


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## der_kluge (May 21, 2006)

Scribble said:
			
		

> I'd like to take room 2 if no one else wants it?





Done. I'll update the first post and assign it to you.


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## der_kluge (May 21, 2006)

blargney the second said:
			
		

> Which way does the water flow in rooms 6, 8, and 10?  Also, I love it when adventures have a Scale This Encounter for each encounter.  It's pretty straightforward, but vastly increases the utility of an adventure.
> 
> -blarg





It could go either way, or no way at all. It's up to whomever takes that area, really.


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## der_kluge (May 21, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> I agree - awesome Map.
> 
> So anyway I've never participated in a Collaborative Dungeon but I do love caves.
> 
> So do we establish a theme for the cave? or at least a Cave type?




Theme is that it's the lair of a dragon, probably set in a forest, in the hills or in a mountain. Other than that, it's open. Cavern type would probably be earthen/rock, like any other cavern system, really.


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## Tonguez (May 21, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Other than that, it's open. Cavern type would probably be earthen/rock, like any other cavern system, really.




Um I have a _thang _ for geology (amature rock collector) so to me earthen/rock means a hole lot of different things - and as I said I love caves and they are all very different

an example: Cave Types

*Karst Caves* associated with water flowing through carbonate rock (limestone, gypsum). This can form either tubes or the common cavern type formations (with stalactites and stalagmites etc) 

*Solution Caves* like Karst caves but in noncarbonate rocks such as sandstone or salt. _A Salt Cave could make for a really interesting encounter _ 

*Coral Caves* can be considered a form of Karst cave, but are usually associated with the sea 

*Talus Caves*, spaces between large rocks./boulders resulting from rock slides or collapse. Unstable

*Tectonic crevices* cracks and crevices in bedrock. 

*Sea Caves* created by wave action 

*Lava Tubes* smooth tunnels usually single channel but can form multilevel complexes 

*Ice Caves*  any cave that contain year-round permafrost 

*Glacier Caves* cavities within glaciers. Light coming through the ice makes them blue  tend to change shape quickly  

*Canyons* cave-like high enclosed walls but open to the sky (brightly lit but with strange colours and shade effects)

Anyway I'd like to see some Canyons and drop holes in this complex. Ice Caves can go anywhere and there is no reason why we can't mix types I suppose...


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## Asmo (May 21, 2006)

Are you going to use the new stat-block for this project?

Asmo


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## der_kluge (May 21, 2006)

Asmo said:
			
		

> Are you going to use the new stat-block for this project?
> 
> Asmo





The new stat block?  

Really, at this point, I just want to have people volunteer for the rooms. Then we can worry about what the stat block looks like.


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## der_kluge (May 21, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Um I have a _thang _ for geology (amature rock collector) so to me earthen/rock means a hole lot of different things - and as I said I love caves and they are all very different
> 
> an example: Cave Types
> 
> *Karst Caves* associated with water flowing through carbonate rock (limestone, gypsum). This can form either tubes or the common cavern type formations (with stalactites and stalagmites etc)




Given that none of the others really apply to this cave, this would be the most logical choice.


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## Conaill (May 23, 2006)

blargney the second said:
			
		

> Which way does the water flow in rooms 6, 8, and 10?



Based on the number of color gradations left and right of room 7, it seems like the water in 8 is quite a bit lower than in 6. So logically, the water would be flowing 6 -> 10 -> 8, with some sort of inflow in 6, and an outflow in 8 (every dragon lair needs some sort of backdoor...). Also, the water should be flowing fairly rapidly to maintain that kind of difference in height. (There may even be a little waterfall where the water from 10 dumps into the pool in 8.)

If that wasn't the intention, the map (and specifically the color gradation on the right of 7) should be adjusted...


Note: Room 4 and the chasm after room 2 are well below the water level in room 6. Some mechanism to flood those areas could be part of a trap. There's also various other "plumbing" option that could be exploited here. For example, blocking the outflow from #6 would make the water level there rise until it flows out into the chasm (possibly flooding 3 and 4 as well). However, rooms 10 and 8 would empty out and maybe reveal something intersting that was hidden beneath the water line. Blocking the outflow in #8 could flood most of northern half of the cave complex, possibly with air pockets remaining in 7 and 9.

Just some random musing...


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## Conaill (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge - did you settle on 5' or 10' squares? This is crucial to know what sort of potential for flight these dragons would have in the various rooms...


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## MoogleEmpMog (May 23, 2006)

Room 10 totally needs a stone kith paragon half-radiation-dragon half-fiend vampire hecavir fast hero/greenbond/chaos mage with multiweapon fighting, a pair of +2 .357 magnums and a pair of rods of wonder.  

Genuinely sorry, but I couldn't resist.

I'm pretty sure it's all OGL, though.


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

If a *green* dragon is living here, I would think he'd want quick access to the water.  Fighting from the water against pesky thieving adventurers is preferable to fighting on land; it gives him concealment for ambushing them, an easy escape route, and terrain that isn't as kind to the adventurers.  Plus, the secret area in 9 just SCREAMS "hidden treasure pile" to me.

If I ran a dragon using this map as a lair, I'd add more interconnections between areas.  From 12 to 8, perhaps, using a tunnel in the ceiling (fliers only!).  Maybe there's a hidden tunnel from 7 to 11 (a secret door in 7 leads to a 100' deep pit, and the bottom is actually 11).  I might even make 4 wrap around to the north instead of the south and have a small window to the chasm in 2.


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## Land Outcast (May 23, 2006)

Someone said _control reptiles_?


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

MoogleEmpMog said:
			
		

> Room 10 totally needs a stone kith paragon half-radiation-dragon half-fiend vampire hecavir fast hero/greenbond/chaos mage with multiweapon fighting, a pair of +2 .357 magnums and a pair of rods of wonder.
> 
> Genuinely sorry, but I couldn't resist.
> 
> I'm pretty sure it's all OGL, though.




WTF?  I've never heard of stone kith, half-radiation template, hecavir, greendbond, or chaos mage.


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## Conaill (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> If I ran a dragon using this map as a lair, I'd add more interconnections between areas.  From 12 to 8, perhaps, using a tunnel in the ceiling (fliers only!).  Maybe there's a hidden tunnel from 7 to 11 (a secret door in 7 leads to a 100' deep pit, and the bottom is actually 11).  I might even make 4 wrap around to the north instead of the south and have a small window to the chasm in 2.



Another option: perhaps the water flows 6 -> 10 -> 8, and then curves back around underground to finally empty out at the bottom of the chasm. That would allow the dragon to swim down from 8 to the bottom of the chasm, then fly up and catch any adventurers in the rear...


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## MoogleEmpMog (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> WTF?  I've never heard of stone kith, half-radiation template, hecavir, greendbond, or chaos mage.




I was going for some of the more obscure ones out there, in reference to another thread, which wasn't right or polite.  And I still got 'em wrong.  

Stone Kith is from... a template book I don't have, but it showed up in a Goodman Games Dungeon Crawl Classic.  It basically turns a living creature into a stone golem.  It would also negate almost everything else on the creature while adding +3 CR, making it borderline unusable.

Hecavir is from Beyond Monks, also Goodman Games.  It's a four-armed humanoid.  A classic 'cool but incredibly weak' LA race.

Greenbond is basically a druid-analogue in Arcana Evolved, from Malhavoc Press.

Chaos Mage is a controversial class from, appropriately enough, the Complete Chaos Mage, from Mongoose.  Generally considered overpowered, but doesn't help this poor guy any.

Half-radiation... doesn't exist.  I was thinking there was a Radiation Dragon, but it's actually Star Dragon and has the (Radiation) subtype; it comes from Dragonstar, from Fantasy Flight Games.


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

First, I'll echo the question about 5' or 10' squares.  If the idea is 5' squares, then some of the passages need widening to accomodate the dragon.

Are Rooms 1 and 2 (both sides of the chasm) open to the sky above?  Or is the water tunnel between 1 and 2 the entrance into the cave complex?  I had some ideas for Rooms 3 and 5, but it would logically require that the creatures there have easy access to outside.

Curtis, are you planning on writing up the final encounter with the dragon?  If so, are you putting him in room 8, 10, or 12?  There are good arguments for each one:

8:  A crafty dragon could split his treasure pile, putting a few trifles on the ledge in front of the secret door to 9, with the rest of the treasure pile stored in 9 with some nasty traps.  The dragon lounges either in the pool or on the ledge with the treasure while in this room.

10:  The treasure is in the air-pocket room, making it much harder for pesky land-based adventurers to steal.  It's easy for the dragon to reach because of his swim speed and water breathing, so it's no inconvenience to him (or her).

12:  The plateau in the lower right of this area is a natural place to put a treasure mound.  Fill the depression just below it with water, and the dragon has a nice hiding place.  Or maybe the depression is his bed - either way would work.

In any event, I will sign up for Room 7:  Choker Trap (This room assume that the Dragon ALWAYS swims via 6-10-8 if it needs to get to 8 or 9)


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> der_kluge - did you settle on 5' or 10' squares? This is crucial to know what sort of potential for flight these dragons would have in the various rooms...





Those are intended to be 5' squares. Although, there's nothing stopping someone from making them 10' squares, doubling the size of the cave.


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Those are intended to be 5' squares. Although, there's nothing stopping someone from making them 10' squares, doubling the size of the cave.




That's a pretty tight squeeze for a Large dragon, in some cases!


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> First, I'll echo the question about 5' or 10' squares.  If the idea is 5' squares, then some of the passages need widening to accomodate the dragon.




I can widen the hallways. I suppose given enough time, the dragon could simply claw through some of the hallways to be wider.



> Are Rooms 1 and 2 (both sides of the chasm) open to the sky above?  Or is the water tunnel between 1 and 2 the entrance into the cave complex?  I had some ideas for Rooms 3 and 5, but it would logically require that the creatures there have easy access to outside.




IMC, I ran just these first two rooms - there was an opening above the chasm to the outside. There, bats would fly in at dawn, and leave at dusk. Also, IMC, the chasm led down into the Tomb of Abysthor to dungeons below (about 190'). Obviously here, it can go wherever we wanted. I was thinking maybe a phase spider lair at the bottom would be kind of cool. Occasionally, maybe Spider Eaters would fly in to attack the spiders. Or, it could be just huge spiders, or something like that. It would be a way to further torment any PC who happens to fall down the chasm - not instant death, but rather slow agoniznig torture.



> Curtis, are you planning on writing up the final encounter with the dragon?  If so, are you putting him in room 8, 10, or 12?  There are good arguments for each one:




I had actually drawn the map with the intention of putting the dragon in area 12, on top of the ledge. But someone suggested having it reside in the pool, which I like a whole, whole lot. So, I'm actually debating whether I should just completely erase 5,11 and 12.  Thoughts?  I'm happy doing whichever room. If someone wants to stat out the dragon's lair, go for it. 




> 8:  A crafty dragon could split his treasure pile, putting a few trifles on the ledge in front of the secret door to 9, with the rest of the treasure pile stored in 9 with some nasty traps.  The dragon lounges either in the pool or on the ledge with the treasure while in this room.




I suspect most dragons would maintain a single treasure pile, out of greed as much as any other reason. The most logical place for the dragon to reside would be in the bubble chamber in area 10. It's the least accessible place to pesky interlopers. My original thinking (again, assuming the dragon was in area 12), that the dragon wasn't even *aware* of the secret door into area 9 - that it's contents were old and mysterious. But again, that's up to whoever details that room.




> 10:  The treasure is in the air-pocket room, making it much harder for pesky land-based adventurers to steal.  It's easy for the dragon to reach because of his swim speed and water breathing, so it's no inconvenience to him (or her).




Indeed.  Likewise, if we place the dragon in area 12, this would make a perfect home to an aboleth, perhaps. That wouldm make this section of the cave particularly nasty.




> 12:  The plateau in the lower right of this area is a natural place to put a treasure mound.  Fill the depression just below it with water, and the dragon has a nice hiding place.  Or maybe the depression is his bed - either way would work.




Indeed. I could fill that with water. Not a bad idea.



> In any event, I will sign up for Room 7:  Choker Trap (This room assume that the Dragon ALWAYS swims via 6-10-8 if it needs to get to 8 or 9)




I'll assign room 7 to you.

Thanks.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> That's a pretty tight squeeze for a Large dragon, in some cases!




Gimme a few - I'll make some changes to it. I'm going to add a ceiling passage from 12 to 8 as suggested. I'm going to make area 4 sort of below area 3, and I'll widen some of the passageways, and fill the depression in area 12 with water.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Based on the number of color gradations left and right of room 7, it seems like the water in 8 is quite a bit lower than in 6. So logically, the water would be flowing 6 -> 10 -> 8, with some sort of inflow in 6, and an outflow in 8 (every dragon lair needs some sort of backdoor...). Also, the water should be flowing fairly rapidly to maintain that kind of difference in height. (There may even be a little waterfall where the water from 10 dumps into the pool in 8.)




I was thinking a waterfall into area 8 would just be awesome. The room would be dark, but when PCs enter here, they could hear it. Maybe something pouring in from the ceiling. 




> If that wasn't the intention, the map (and specifically the color gradation on the right of 7) should be adjusted...




I didn't really have any specific intention. I just drew a map.   I think it would be best if the tunnel into area 10 from area 8 was submerged however. I think it would be too easy if it were noticeable - except maybe under drought conditions.


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## Scribble (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> That's a pretty tight squeeze for a Large dragon, in some cases!




Don't forget he said Young green dragons. So they aren't very big. They might not be able to fly through the whole thing, but who cares. I'd think the dea would be deffense more then convinience.


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## Ilium (May 23, 2006)

I'll grab area 4 if that's OK.  

I'm picturing that slope as being wet and extremely slippery, and living in area 4 are vast numbers of something tiny (or Diminutive) and hungry.  Some kind of swarm that spends its days in here and goes outside through teeny cracks in the roof to feed at night.  Bats, maybe.  

OR it could be a swarm of rats that lives off the dragon's cast-offs.  This could be the dragon's garbage dump.  How much of a drop does each elevation line represent?


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> I'll grab area 4 if that's OK.
> 
> I'm picturing that slope as being wet and extremely slippery, and living in area 4 are vast numbers of something tiny (or Diminutive) and hungry.  Some kind of swarm that spends its days in here and goes outside through teeny cracks in the roof to feed at night.  Bats, maybe.
> 
> OR it could be a swarm of rats that lives off the dragon's cast-offs.  This could be the dragon's garbage dump.  How much of a drop does each elevation line represent?




No definite on what the slope is. Probably not more a few feet. 5 feet at the most.

I'm thinking bats would be perfect. As I mentioned before, I could see spiders building webs in the chasm to catch bats. I could even see spider eaters flying in to eat the spiders.

I could see the dragon(s) leaving carcases behind, which rats could eat. I could see oozes feeding on the rats and the bones and the bats.

I could see rust monsters living in area 1, feeding off scrap metal the dragon(s) leave to them to protect the entranceway.

As I mentioned before, if we don't put the dragon in the pool, perhaps an aboleth lives there. Maybe a non-combat encounter at all, but perhaps a nymph? Lots of ideas.

We need to decide where we want the dragon.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 23, 2006)

I'd like to take area #3 as servant quarters, featuring a high(er) level kobold major domo and classed kobold servants. (Of course, the green dragons see them more like slaves, but why spoil the kobolds' dreams?) They'd be in charge, among other things, resetting any other traps in the complex, pushing debris into #4, doing fine sorting work for the dragons and any outside collection tasks too small for a dragon to be able to accomplish (or bother with).


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Poll:  Where do you want the dragon's lair to be?

Area 10, or area 12?


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> I'd like to take area #3 as servant quarters, featuring a high(er) level kobold major domo and classed kobold servants. (Of course, the green dragons see them more like slaves, but why spoil the kobolds' dreams?) They'd be in charge, among other things, resetting any other traps in the complex, pushing debris into #4, doing fine sorting work for the dragons and any outside collection tasks too small for a dragon to be able to accomplish (or bother with).





A kobold what?  Major domo?


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

I widened a few of the passageways, and increased the size of areas 3 and 4, and moved 4 partially under 3. Area 3 now opens up into area 4.

Check the first post for the map.

I'll hold off on putting the tunnel between areas 8 and 12 until we know where the dragon will reside.


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## Ilium (May 23, 2006)

I hate to be difficult, but what about area 8?  It has plenty of water to hide in, plus a good sized dry area for PCs to fight from.  AND it connects with area 9, which might be where the dragon keeps his choicest stuff.  AND it has both a water and a land exit for quick getaways (though would a dragon plan for that?).

Barring that, I think area 10 is the most secure spot, but least fun to run a combat in.  So I vote area 12.  Tactically it has the advantage of 2 exits in case the fight goes badly.  Granted the two exits join up immediately, but it's still better than the dead end of area 10.


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

Scribble said:
			
		

> Don't forget he said Young green dragons. So they aren't very big. They might not be able to fly through the whole thing, but who cares. I'd think the dea would be deffense more then convinience.




Eh, I was thinking along the lines of a Young Adult (CR 11) dragon as the BBEG for this dungeon - the BBEG should always be a few CR higher than the baseline for a dungeon!

Of course, that depends on the person writing that encounter 



			
				der_kluge said:
			
		

> I could see the dragon(s) leaving carcases behind, which rats could eat. I could see oozes feeding on the rats and the bones and the bats.




Ochre jellies are dangerous to pesky interlopers, dissolve flesh, and leave the gear alone.  The dragon can then retrieve the gear fearlessly due to his acid immunity 

Any other ooze eats some of the treasure.



> We need to decide where we want the dragon.




I vote Room 8, with his treasure in the air pocket in Room 10.  If you want to be truly nasty, he ambushes the party in 6, then swims away once they start to hurt him.

That said, my suggestion for an aerial tunnel between 8 and 12 stands - I'm sure the dragon has a reason to visit 12 even if his primary lair is 8!


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## Scribble (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Eh, I was thinking along the lines of a Young Adult (CR 11) dragon as the BBEG for this dungeon - the BBEG should always be a few CR higher than the baseline for a dungeon!




Still, that's only a large creature, which could concievebly squeeze through... No one says it has to go into EVERY room. 



> Of course, that depends on the person writing that encounter




True that!


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Eh, I was thinking along the lines of a Young Adult (CR 11) dragon as the BBEG for this dungeon - the BBEG should always be a few CR higher than the baseline for a dungeon!
> 
> Of course, that depends on the person writing that encounter





A CR 11 is "young adult" which is just size category Large. 

Another option would be a CR 8 and a CR 5 pair of dragons (juvenile and young). I don't have any idea how old a dragon has to be before it mates, but a "young" dragon can still be up to 25 years old. That seems old enough to me to have found a mate. Besides, nothing would terrorize a party more than fighting TWO dragons at the same time. I know it would scare my group to death.  It changes the breath attack to a 6d6 AND an 8d6 breath attack, versus just one 10d6 attack.

A mated pair could have a nesting area for eggs - which could reside in the chamber at area 10.


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## Aeolius (May 23, 2006)

Perhaps the dragons squeezed into the cave when they were younger and got stuck inside. For a time, they relied upon their servants to provide food, treasure, and companionship. As the years passed, the servants became masters of the imprisoned dragons. Resenting their predicament, the dragons began to excavate a shaft large enough to allow for their escape. 

   Therefore, while the players have seen the green dragons in flight, the "servants" of the dragons have not. The dragons would not appreciate a party of adventurers sneaking into their lair to spoil the "surprise".


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Ok, the dragon's lair is area 8. 

I'll do area 8. 

Room 9 can be a treasure vault - where the dragon's keep all the junk they don't want to sleep on.

Area 10 can be a nursery for some dragon eggs - treasure in and of themselves!


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> A CR 11 is "young adult" which is just size category Large.
> 
> Another option would be a CR 8 and a CR 5 pair of dragons (juvenile and young). I don't have any idea how old a dragon has to be before it mates, but a "young" dragon can still be up to 25 years old. That seems old enough to me to have found a mate. Besides, nothing would terrorize a party more than fighting TWO dragons at the same time. I know it would scare my group to death.  It changes the breath attack to a 6d6 AND an 8d6 breath attack, versus just one 10d6 attack.
> 
> A mated pair could have a nesting area for eggs - which could reside in the chamber at area 10.




Yep, large - not Huge 

Juvenile and Young age categories seem ... young to be in a mated pair, IMO.  Comparing to human lifespans, wyrmling would = infant, very young = toddler, young = child, juvenile = pre-teen, and young adult would = human ages 14 to 18, maybe 20.

Plus, Young Adult is where the dragon first gets its Frightful Presence, SR, and DR 5/magic.

While I LIKE your idea of a pair of dragons as a nasty surprise to the party, it doesn't really work for this encounter level range.

Unless...there are two SIBLINGS here, and Mom forced them to get along and keep a low profile (adventurers in this region are powerful enough to be a threat to the kids for another 50 years or so)...but she went on a journey recently.  Now they're getting bored and restless, leading to their discovery by the adventurers (one possible intro hook).

What do you think?

Edit:  Also, for my ambush to work, I need the entrance to Room 7 to be narrower - three 5' squares in width will allow my nasty little surprise for the PCs to take full effect!


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## Shieldhaven (May 23, 2006)

I have an idea for Area 10, though I'll explain where I'm going with it before I lay further claim to the area.

The depiction of the waterways connection 10 to 6 and 8 suggests to me that the passages are entirely submerged, and thus more difficult to find.  The dragons, of course, can get there easily, though they have to realize that sooner or later they won't be able to squeeze through anymore.  I've come to feel that all of the best dungeons/cave complexes/whatever have a sense of history, and the _current_ inhabitants are never the _original_ inhabitants.  In a sense this means that the place is telling more than one story at a time.

So the dragons have seen this island and what the cave's previous inhabitants placed there.  They decided not to meddle with what they didn't understand.  Greens do have a noted curiosity, however, and so they have not completely ignored the place.  I haven't completely come up with what's back there, but it will probably be some kind of tablet or obelisk.

Is this interesting, or should I take it back to the drawing board?

Haven


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Just going through the SRD for ideas:

•	A Kapoacinth (aquatic gargoyle - or even a regular gargoyle) (CR 4)
•	A Green Hag (perhaps she is tolerated by the dragons because she gives them information) (CR 5)
•	Water Naga (CR 7)
•	Monstrous Spiders (Large CR 2; Huge CR 5)
•	Spider Eater (probably limited to area 2) (CR 5)
•	Bat Swarm (CR 2)
•	Centipede Swarm (CR 4)
•	Ochre Jelly (CR 5)
•	Another possibility for area 9 is something like a clay golem (CR 10) guarding something. The dragons might know it's there, but aren't really strong enough to kill it. As long as they keep the door shut, it quietly guards whatever it was tasked with. The golem never leaves the area 9). The golem, without any way to heal, might have been damaged from the dragon's initial encounter somewhat, which could reduce its CR slightly. But with its DR, the dragons would have given up trying to kill it a long time ago.
•	Ettercap (CR 3)


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Shieldhaven said:
			
		

> I have an idea for Area 10, though I'll explain where I'm going with it before I lay further claim to the area.
> 
> The depiction of the waterways connection 10 to 6 and 8 suggests to me that the passages are entirely submerged, and thus more difficult to find.  The dragons, of course, can get there easily, though they have to realize that sooner or later they won't be able to squeeze through anymore.  I've come to feel that all of the best dungeons/cave complexes/whatever have a sense of history, and the _current_ inhabitants are never the _original_ inhabitants.  In a sense this means that the place is telling more than one story at a time.
> 
> ...





I love it. It also sort of ties in with my idea of maybe putting something off-the-wall like a clay golem in room 9. 

I agree with Elephant that having such a young mated pair would be a bit of a stretch, so I won't go that route.

Shieldhaven, if you want room 10, go for it.


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## Shieldhaven (May 23, 2006)

Gotcha.  Do I post my "finished" version here (once I write it, I mean), or do I email it to someone?

Haven


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## Aeolius (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> A Green Hag (perhaps she is tolerated by the dragons because she gives them information) (CR 5)




bah! Methinks it'd be the hag that would tolerate the dragons...but I admit to a personal bias.  

   If you subscribe to the notion that an annis is the daughter of a greenhag and ogre/giant (greenhags being the daughters of night hags and humans. "Ecology of the Greenhag" DRAGON #125). Then perhaps the offspring of a greenhag and green dragon would be a half-dragon annis.


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## Piratecat (May 23, 2006)

Can I have room 10, please?

That's the room that the halfling is in. You know, the halfling that came in here with his adventuring group a year and a half ago, before the rest of them got eaten by the dragon. The halfling escaped to room 10 by swimming down in an act of desperation. . . but now he's trapped in room 10.

The dragon knows he's there, too. It whispers to him through the thin opening in its lair (room 8). Sometimes the halfling imagines that the dragon is whispering to him even when it's just the rush of water. He's taken to carving on the walls with his blunt pocket knife, and making fantastic art out of fish skeletons and odure. Everything would be okay if the dragon would just stop _whispering_.

The halfling knows that its just a matter of time. He's lost his armor and weapons, and he spends his time on the tiny little rock. He's managed to live on raw fish, and there's certainly no end of fresh water. But even if there wasn't any dragon, the opening into room 8 is too small for him to squeeze through, and he's not strong enough to swim up-current back into room 6.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Shieldhaven said:
			
		

> Gotcha.  Do I post my "finished" version here (once I write it, I mean), or do I email it to someone?
> 
> Haven





No, post it here. I'll assign it to you.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> Can I have room 10, please?




I just assigned it to Shieldhaven. You'll have to barter with him for it.


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## Piratecat (May 23, 2006)

Noooooooo!

Damn. I posted my undeveloped idea upthread, but that's okay. Your idea is great.  Have fun with it!


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## Shieldhaven (May 23, 2006)

I frankly think that your idea is brilliant, Piratecat.  With your permission, I'd be very happy to include that character (and his incredibly squalid situation) in my own plans for the room.

If you'd prefer I didn't, just say so.

Haven


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## Piratecat (May 23, 2006)

He's yours with my blessing! Have fun with the little guy. I'm honored you want to include him.


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

Room: 7

Traps:  None

Boxed Text:  







> As you reach the top of this incline, the tunnel widens into a broader cavern, roughly 20' by 30' across.  The smell of decay assaults your nostrils, and you see a pile of bones scattered haphazardly across the jagged stone floor.  A gleam of metal in the flickering light from your torch catches your eye.  The uneven floor pokes uncomfortably at your boots as you step forward.




Room Notes:  While the jagged floor is uncomfortable to walk on, it does not have any mechanical effects on movement.  It does, however, increase falling damage by 1d6 (falling 10 feet causes 2d6 damage, etc).  The roof of the cavern is 20' up near the edges of the room, but there is one "chimney" about 10' in diameter leading up 90' to the top (though the PCs will probably only be able to see up 60').  The chimney may be reached with a DC 25 Climb check from any point in the cavern due to the irregular structure of the rocks in this chamber.

Even if the PCs have Darkvision, Ghzzdit has a good enough ambush position that he remains hidden.  It takes a DC 30 Spot check to notice him before he attacks the party.

On the flip side, if the PCs are bearing lights, Ghzzdit automatically follows their progress through the room.  He will only need to roll Spot and Listen checks if they are scouting in complete darkness.

Encounter EL 11:

Ghzzdit, Advanced Choker, Sor 4
Medium Aberration
Hit Dice 12d8+48+4d4+16 (120 hp)
Initiative +6
Speed 30 ft, Climb 10 ft.
AC 17 (+3 Dex, +4 Natural), touch 13, flat-footed 14
BAB/Grapple +11/+22
Attack Tentacle +18 melee (1d6+6, 19-20/x2) 
....or Tentacle +13 melee (1d6+11, 19-20/x2, 5 point Power Attack)
Full Attack 2 Tentacles +18 melee (1d6+6, 19-20/x2)
....or 2 Tentacles +13 melee (1d6+11, 19-20/x2, 5 point Power Attack)
Space/Reach 5ft/10ft
Special Attacks Improved Grab, Constrict 1d6+6
Special Qualities Darkvision 60ft, Quickness
Saves Fort +10, Ref +11, Will +13
Abilities Str 22, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 14
Skills Climb +14, Hide +20, Listen +0, Move Silently +5, Spot +6
Feats Forlorn Flaw (no familiar), Improved Initiative (Bonus), Eschew Materials, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Critical (Tentacle), Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Hide), Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
Spells (6/7/4)
0: Resistance, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand
1: Mage Armor, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement
2: Bull's Strength

Ghzzdit lurks above the entrance to this chamber, 10 ft above the cave floor.  He Takes 10 on his Hide check for a total of 30 in order to better ambush his prey.  Once he hears the sounds of combat in Area 6, Ghzzdit casts the following buffing spells and waits for prey to wander beneath him:  Mage Armor, Bull's Strength, and Resistance.  The effects of these spells (except for Resistance) are shown in the statblock below.

Ghzzdit, Advanced Choker, Sor 4
Medium Aberration
Hit Dice 12d8+48+4d4+16 (120 hp)
Initiative +6
Speed 30 ft, Climb 10 ft.
AC 21 (+3 Dex, +4 Natural), touch 13, flat-footed 14
BAB/Grapple +11/+22
Attack Tentacle +20 melee (1d6+8, 19-20/x2) 
....or Tentacle +15 melee (1d6+13, 19-20/x2, 5 point Power Attack)
....or Tentacle +9 melee (1d6+19, 19-20/x2, 11 point Power Attack)
Full Attack 2 Tentacles +21 melee (1d6+8, 19-20/x2)
....or 2 Tentacles +16 melee (1d6+13, 19-20/x2, 5 point Power Attack)
....or 2 Tentacles +9 melee (1d6+19, 19-20/x2, 11 point Power Attack)
Space/Reach 5ft/10ft
Special Attacks Improved Grab, Constrict 1d6+8
Special Qualities Darkvision 60ft, Quickness
Saves Fort +10, Ref +11, Will +13
Abilities Str 26, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 4, Wis 10, Cha 14
Skills Climb +16, Hide +20, Listen +0, Move Silently +5, Spot +6
Feats Forlorn Flaw (no familiar), Improved Initiative (Bonus), Eschew Materials, Improved Natural Attack, Improved Critical (Tentacle), Lightning Reflexes, Power Attack, Skill Focus (Hide), Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
Spells (6/7/4)
0: Resistance, Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Touch of Fatigue, Ghost Sound, Mage Hand
1: Mage Armor, True Strike, Ray of Enfeeblement
2: Bull's Strength

Surprise round:  He casts True Strike, then lashes out using full Power Attack and Improved Grab (taking -20 to not be considered grappling).  If he succeeds in the grapple, he establishes a hold and constricts.
Round 1:  If he missed his attack, in the surprise round, he casts True Strike and attacks using only 5 points of Power Attack.
If he failed in his grapple attempt, he casts Ray of Enfeeblement on his victim before attacking again.
If he succeeded in his grapple attempt, he starts climbing while choking his victim.  While climbing, he tries to use Touch of Fatigue to weaken his victim.
Round 3 and beyond:  Once a victim falls unconscious due to several rounds of Constrict damage and tentacle attacks, Ghzzdit retreats into a sheltered alcove near the top of the cavern to feast.

DM's Notes:  PCs with reach weapons may attack Ghzzdit normally.  Otherwise, a DC 20 Jump check will allow any PC to get close enough to strike once.

Alternatively, a DC 25 Climb check will allow a PC to climb up onto Ghzzdit's ambush shelf.

Treasure:  A rusty dagger, a tattered pair of hard-soled red leather shoes and a gold ring (225gp) are all that can be found amongst the bones.  If Mending or Make Whole is cast on the shoes, they become worth 25gp.

Background Note:  The dragon's slaves regularly sweep the chamber for treasure; all the gear of Ghzzdit's past victims now lies in the dragon's treasure pile, except for the items noted above.

Scaling the Encounter:
To increase the difficulty of this encounter, add a second choker identical to Ghzzdit.
To decrease the difficulty, reduce Ghzzdit's HP to 100 and his AC to 17.  Ignoring his Sor spells in combat will also make for an easier encounter.

Contributor:  Brian "the Elephant" Thompson


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

I'd also like to contribute some nasty traps to the tunnels between Rooms 2, 3, 5, and 6.  I'll call it "2a" for now.

Failing that, I could do an encounter for Room 5.


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## Scribble (May 23, 2006)

Ok... here's what I got!   (I'll add more later when I have a chance)

If anyone notices any issues with it, or wants me to rework anything lemme know!

Room 2:

*An Occurrence at Dragon Creek bridge...*



> The cavern you enter spans farther then a mere torch can illuminate. Despite it’s size the air feels close, almost palpable, causing sound to be strangely muffled. A slight lapping of water against rock can be heard from the pool to the west…




*Room Notes: *

The Chasm in this room is roughly 400 feet deep. It is made of generally smooth natural rock, which can be climbed (DC 25) if taken carefully and slowly.  Roughly 40 feet down on a small ledge appears to be the remains of some unfortunate soul. 

There isn’t much left of the body on the ledge. Mostly bone and some tattered remains of clothing. Beneath the tatters can be found a few gold pieces. In the skeletal “hand” of the body is a paintbrush.


On the north wall of the cavern, near the pool of water leading from room 1 is a painting, painted directly on the wall, depicting the cavern itself, with a few additions. 

*Boxed:*



> The painting on the wall before you depicts the cavern in almost startling detail, albeit a few minor differences. Spanning the cavern in the painting is a partially finished rope bridge. The ropes are connected at each end to stone posts, but the wooden slats cover only about a quarter of the distance, as if the artist stopped painting before finishing his project. On the ledge opposite the eastern side, seated atop the stone posts are two of the most ugly statues you’ve ever seen, depicting hunched over winged humanoids. A bright light from above shines down illuminating the entire painted cavern. There is no trace of paints or any sort of painting tools.




 A search (DC 20) of the floor around the painting, however, will locate a hidden cache of paints, but not the brushes. The brushes are located with the body mentioned above. 

The paints come in a variety of colors, (red, orange, yellow, green, blue, white, brown, and black) and are worth roughly 2gp. 

Characters can attempt to make a Craft, Paint (DC 10) check in order to finish the bridge. If they do, a physical version of the bridge, statues, and light in the painting will appear spanning the chasm. 



> As you finish the last brush stroke, a brilliant white light fills the cavern from above. Suddenly you see the bridge before you, but this time actually crossing the chasm… The ugly humanoid statues, however, appear to be spinning…




The statues will begin to turn from the moment characters finish the painting. It takes them 7 full rounds before they complete a full rotation and the bridge disappears. The scene can be painted again, causing the bridge to appear again, but there is only enough paint for three tries.




> When you arrive at the bridge you see it looks very unstable. It will be slow going to cross the bridge safely.




*Crossing the bridge:*

The bridge itself is 60 feet wide. Crossing the bridge requires a Balance (DC 15) check, with normal balance rules applying.

If characters do not make it across in time, the bridge will disappear sending them falling into the chasm.

*Crossing without the Bridge*

Crossing the chasm without the bridge will be somewhat difficult for non flying characters. It is possible, while slow, to climb (dc25) across the side walls to get to the other ledge. 





*At the bottom*

The bottom of the chasm contains a gate to room 10. It is built directly into the floor, and not visible from above. (It appears as natural rock.) Leaping from a certain point on the cliff (DM discretion) will send a character through the gate and onto the island in room 10. The character, unless possessing some means of slowing his/her descent will still take full falling damage as if falling the whole 400 feet.


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## Conaill (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Gimme a few - I'll make some changes to it. I'm going to add a ceiling passage from 12 to 8 as suggested. I'm going to make area 4 sort of below area 3, and I'll widen some of the passageways, and fill the depression in area 12 with water.



You may also want to make a side view to illustrate the alitude changes, ceiling height (important for flight!), water levels, etc. Have a look at some depictions of real-world cave complexes.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> A kobold what?  Major domo?



Yes. 


			
				Wikipedia said:
			
		

> A majordomo is the head (major) person of a domestic staff (domo), one who acts on behalf of a usually absent owner of a typically large residence. Similar terms include castellan, chamberlain, seneschal, maître d', and steward. The etymology is from mayordomo (Spanish) and major domus (Latin).
> 
> Ranking above the butler, the majordomo is responsible for all managerial and financial affairs concerning his employer's households. This term, now seldom used, was common in Europe until the early 20th century. Significantly, the French term now used as equivalent to butler still is majordome.
> 
> See Mayor of the Palace for medieval title and office.



This is how the kobold sees his role. The dragon likely sees him as a janitor/guard. He'd have some class levels and some lower level flunkies and patrol a small area of the complex, cleaning up portions of bodies, help with the accounting (and reaccounting and re-reaccounting) of loot and go into the outside world to do any tasks the dragon (or dragons) need done.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> He's yours with my blessing! Have fun with the little guy. I'm honored you want to include him.





Are there enough fish in there to sustain him?  Maybe albino cave catfish?  Or, some sort of chad, or maybe crawdads?

You could always just give him a ring of sustenance. That'd solve the problem regardless.


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## Scribble (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Are there enough fish in there to sustain him?  Maybe albino cave catfish?  Or, some sort of chad, or maybe crawdads?
> 
> You could always just give him a ring of sustenance. That'd solve the problem regardless.





A ring of sustenance that only produces the sense of having eaten an albino catfish. Just to piss the litrle halfling off.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Room: 7
> 
> Traps:  None
> 
> ....





Ouch!  That's nasty. A couple of suggestions:

The last line of the boxed text makes it read like there's a trap present. You might change to the wording to indicate that the rocks are very brittle and sharp here. Unless that was your intention.

Include an EL for the room. Near as I can tell, you added 9 hit dice, that's a +2 CR increase, and 6 sorcerer levels. I would also add at least a +1 for the ability score improvements, maybe a +2. That's an EL 11 encounter. Nasty!

You might consider giving the choker a Spot score. For trying to find the hidden rogues lurking up the cavern, and maybe a listen score, to see if he can hear them.

Also, the SRD indicates the Chokers often grab the _last_ person in line. That might actually be the smarter tactic. 

Great job!


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> You may also want to make a side view to illustrate the alitude changes, ceiling height (important for flight!), water levels, etc. Have a look at some depictions of real-world cave complexes.




I may... Room 7 in particular could benefit from such a view.


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## Shieldhaven (May 23, 2006)

Heck, maybe the ring gives him a wracking cough and causes his hair to fall out.

Okay, never mind, I don't want to get sued. 

Haven


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## blargney the second (May 23, 2006)

I liked the Gollumness of Piratecat's original idea...


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## Imagicka (May 23, 2006)

Greetings...

Tonguez, do you have a favourite website that details all this, or have posted a long and detailed posts about such things?  

One of the things I always felt was lacking was a good guide to caves, how they are formed, how big they can become...what factors create them (yeah yeah... I know...water and time...) as well as what kind of creatures/monsters you can expect from them.  




			
				Tonguez said:
			
		

> Um I have a _thang _ for geology (amature rock collector) so to me earthen/rock means a hole lot of different things - and as I said I love caves and they are all very different
> 
> an example: Cave Types
> 
> ...


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Ouch!  That's nasty. A couple of suggestions:
> 
> The last line of the boxed text makes it read like there's a trap present. You might change to the wording to indicate that the rocks are very brittle and sharp here. Unless that was your intention.




Hmm...the flavor text for the uneven floor could be better, but OTOH, keeping a healthy level of paranoia alive in the PCs is a GOOD thing.  Besides, if they're expecting traps, they won't be thinking about chokers.



> Include an EL for the room. Near as I can tell, you added 9 hit dice, that's a +2 CR increase, and 6 sorcerer levels. I would also add at least a +1 for the ability score improvements, maybe a +2. That's an EL 11 encounter. Nasty!




Going by the SRD's advancement rules, Ghzzdit the Choker at CR 2 went to CR 4 (Hit Die advancement; +1 CR per four HD), then from CR 4 to CR 5 (elite array with extremely suboptimal layout - half-orcs make better wizards!), then from CR 5 to CR 8 (6 non-associated class levels for +1/2 CR each).

The ambush tactics probably deserve an ad-hoc bump of +1 or +2; I'll add a note about scaling the encounter.  I can also tone it down a bit if it should be more of a "speed bump" on the way to the dragon rather than a vicious surprise.



> You might consider giving the choker a Spot score. For trying to find the hidden rogues lurking up the cavern, and maybe a listen score, to see if he can hear them.
> 
> Also, the SRD indicates the Chokers often grab the _last_ person in line. That might actually be the smarter tactic.
> 
> Great job!




Good idea on both points, but OTOH, grabbing the softest target (Wiz or Sor, most likely) has a higher probability of success than grabbing the Ftr or Clr.  I'll add a DM's Note.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Scribble said:
			
		

> Ok... here's what I got!
> 
> If anyone notices any issues with it, or wants me to rework anything lemme know!
> 
> ...




In the boxed text -the characters don't actually know that there's a pool in the next room. Also, you might not mention, and instead just give a listen DC for PCs who actually decide to stop and make a listen check.

Give an age for the skeleton, and a race, and maybe even a name and who he was. 9th level PCs have access to _speak with dead_ and some aren't going to be above using it on the guy.

Also, work up some stats for the paint, and give them a market cost.

"Beneath the taters" should be "Beneath the tatters".

"On the north wall of the cavern, nearby the pool" to "On the north wall of the cavern, near the pool"

"startling detail, albeit a few minor details" to "startling detail, albeit a few minor differences".

"trace of paints of any sort of painting tools" to "trace of paints of any sort or painting tools"

You might also list out other means of crossing the chasm (swinging from a rope, flying across, etc.)  What else is at the bottom of the chasm?  Any other monsters or treasure down there?  Any holes in the roof of the chasm?  Any way to tie on a rope and swing across?

Also, I'm a little unclear on the falling damage - if I fall and land in the gate, will I be teleported to room 10 and _then_ take 400 feet of falling damage?


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> The ambush tactics probably deserve an ad-hoc bump of +1 or +2; I'll add a note about scaling the encounter.  I can also tone it down a bit if it should be more of a "speed bump" on the way to the dragon rather than a vicious surprise.




Heh, that choker has more hit points than a CR 8 green dragon!


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## Scribble (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> In the boxed text -the characters don't actually know that there's a pool in the next room. Also, you might not mention, and instead just give a listen DC for PCs who actually decide to stop and make a listen check.




Hrm... I was assuming up was north, as there's no indication otherwise, so the pool to the west would be the one they came through from room 1... So I'm betting they'd know it's there..

[quoteGive an age for the skeleton, and a race, and maybe even a name and who he was. 9th level PCs have access to _speak with dead_ and some aren't going to be above using it on the guy.[/b]

Good point. I think I'mna wait until room 10 has more info. I'll see if I can link him to the previous cave owners.



> Also, work up some stats for the paint, and give them a market cost.




Hrmm sure... They're just paint though.



> "Beneath the taters" should be "Beneath the tatters".
> 
> "On the north wall of the cavern, nearby the pool" to "On the north wall of the cavern, near the pool"
> 
> ...




Sorry, let me atcually proof read. 




> Also, I'm a little unclear on the falling damage - if I fall and land in the gate, will I be teleported to room 10 and _then_ take 400 feet of falling damage?




Yes. The idea is that it's a sort of a protective measure. Use featherfall (or something similar) to float down through the gate to get to the back room, or get very hurt.


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## Elephant (May 23, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I may... Room 7 in particular could benefit from such a view.




Like this?


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## Conaill (May 23, 2006)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> Can I have room 10, please?
> 
> [...]
> 
> The halfling knows that its just a matter of time. He's lost his armor and weapons, and he spends his time on the tiny little rock. He's managed to live on raw fish, and there's certainly no end of fresh water. But even if there wasn't any dragon, the opening into room 8 is too small for him to squeeze through, and he's not strong enough to swim up-current back into room 6.



The main problem I have with this setup is that it prevents the dragon from using the water passage from 8 through 10 to 6. 

Hmm... maybe the dragon just likes toying with the halfling? In reality, the opening between 10 and 8 is large enough that the dragon could snatch him at any moment for a late-afternoon snack. But it's more entertaining to drive him out of his mind first...


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## Imagicka (May 23, 2006)

Greetings...

I too am interested in contributing... Love the map.

Well, my first question is... does the gradient shading that is used denote any type of height/depth?  Does one 'step' denote 5' in height difference?  

Looking at the watery rooms (6, 10 and 8)... I am no expert, but unless room 10 has an 'exit' for the water to flow. I would think that the entire water system here would be stagnant, and not flowing at all.

If it's stangant, then there really aren't any flows since all three rooms would have their water levels 'level' out.

But I do like Conaill's observations.  

Why not have two dragons?  Or a family of green dragons inhabitanting the cave?  Put the nursery in room 12, or in room 10, and with the tresure/main lair in room 12? 

As for the theory of the one-pile treasure.  Trust me, when your paranoid and greedy then you have a habit of splitting up your stash into smaller piles in case one is found.  

As for teleportation... well, if you ever read All the Myriad Ways by Larry Niven... there is this little problem about teleportation, it doesn't mention anything about 'dampening' the inertia of moving objects.  

So, if you were to be teleported into another room immediately after falling 400 feet.  Well, you would be traveling what?  Roughly 10 metres per second per second.  So, for 400 feet, we're talking about a 4.5 second fall.  Which is 45 metres per second falling speed when they teleport into room 10.  -- Regardless of the physics, we're talking about 20d6 worth of damage.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Scribble said:
			
		

> Hrm... I was assuming up was north, as there's no indication otherwise, so the pool to the west would be the one they came through from room 1... So I'm betting they'd know it's there..




D'oh!  My bad. I thought you were referring to the pool in area 6. I would just reference the water in the room, rather than give a location for it. It's confusing as it reads.


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## der_kluge (May 23, 2006)

Dragon’s chamber (EL 11)



> Before you lies an enormous cavern. The pathway slopes down steeply. Off in the distance, echoing off the walls of this cave, you can hear the sound of pouring water, as if a waterfall is present elsewhere in the cavern. In front of you, you can just make out some stalactites hanging from the ceiling. The air here is stale and acrid.





This large chamber is over 120’ feet across, and anywhere from 80 to 100 feet tall. Stalactites (some as tall as 20 feet) dot the ceiling. The sound of water fills this chamber – echoing off the stones. In the distant corner, a waterfall from an underground stream pours in and falls some 75’ into the pool. An underwater tunnel some 5’ below the surface connects this room to area 10. 

There is a secret door which leads to area 9. It is accessible via the dragon’s plateau. The door can be found from active searching (DC 18). There is no physical mechanism to open it – instead, the door rotates on an axis like a revolving door, and requires a combined strength of 30 to push open.

Two dragons reside here – sibling green dragons, a juvenile female (CR 8), and a young male (CR 5). They rest on the treasure-covered plateau rising out of the water in the southeast corner of the pool. The dragons will notice anyone entering from area 7. Catching these dragons by surprise is difficult at best. The dragons never sleep at the same time. Any adventurers entering the chamber through area 7 carrying a light source of any kind will be spotted instantly. Furthermore, the steep incline into area 7 and extending down to the pool from area 7 is comprised primarily of shale – loose layers of rock which break easily. Climbing down the steep incline to the pool quietly is nearly impossible (Move Silently DC 40).

The entrance into this chamber is also fairly steep, and the rocks are not stable. Any movement faster than a single move action requires a balance check (DC 10) to avoid falling. Characters who fall slide 1d4 x 5’ down the slope and take 2 points of bludgeoning damage per 5’ fallen.

Once the dragons are alerted to the presence of adventurers entering the chamber, the younger male will slip quietly (Move Silently) into the water. The deepest parts of the pool here are over 20 feet deep. There he will wait quietly in order to ambush anyone who dares assault their lair on the plateau – rising from the water attacking from the rear once the time is right.

*Ferix, Juvenile Green Dragon (CR 8)
Large Dragon [Air] *
*Hit Dice: * 14d12+42 (133 hp)
*Initiative: * +4 (+4 Improved Initiative, +0 Dex)
*Speed:* 40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor), swim 40 ft
*AC:* 22 (–1 size, +13 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 22; (26 with _mage armor_)
*BAB/Grapple: *+14/+22
*Full Attack:* 1 bite +17 (2d8+4), 2 claws +17 (1d8+2), 2 wings +17 (1d6+2), tail slap +17 (1d8+6)
*Space/Reach*: 10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with bite)
*Special Attacks:* Breath Weapon (DC 22), Spells
*Special Qualities:*Darkvision 120’, Blindsense, Immunities, Keen Senses, Immunity to Acid, Water Breathing
*Saves:* Fort +12, Ref +9, Will +11
*Abilities: * Str 19, Dex 10, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 14
*Alignment:* Lawful Evil
*CR: * 8
*Skills:* *Bluff +6* (+4 ranks, +2 Cha), *Concentration +11* (+8 ranks, +3 Con), *Diplomacy +6* (+4 ranks, +2 Cha), *Escape Artist +4* (+4 ranks, +0 Dex), *Hide +15* (+15 ranks, +0 Dex), *Intimidate +12* (+10 ranks, +2 Cha), *Listen +21* (+17 ranks, +2 Alertness, +2 Wis), *Move Silently +15* (+15 ranks, +0 Dex), *Search +17* (+15 ranks, +2 Int), *Sense Motive +15* (+13 ranks, +2 Wis), *Spot +21* (+17 ranks, +2 Alertness, +2 Wis), *Use Magic Device +16* (+14 ranks, +2 Cha)
*Feats:* Ability Focus (Breath Weapon), Alertness, Hover, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack (bite)

*Breath Weapon (Su):* Ferix’s breath weapon is a cone of corrosive gas dealing 8d6 points of acid damage. This cone extends 40 feet out. Reflex save DC 22 for half damage.  
Spells: Ferix casts arcane spells as a 1st level sorcerer. 
*Spells Known: **0:* _acid splash_, _detect magic_, _mage hand_, _read magic_; *1st*_grease_, _mage armor_
*Spells per Day:* 5, 5
*Immunities (Ex):* All dragons have immunity to sleep and paralysis effects. 
*Blindsense (Ex):* Dragons can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 60 feet. Opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon.
*Keen Senses (Ex):* A dragon sees four times as well a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.
*Water Breathing (Ex):* A green dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

*Ferix’s Tactics*
Ferix is the older of the two dragons – and is protective of her younger brother. She will usually instruct her sibling to hide in the water away from immediate danger if danger approaches. Prior to that, Ferix will cast _mage armor_ on her brother first and then on herself. If she has time, she will use the wand of _eagle’s splendor_ on herself which gives her an additional two spells per day due to the +4 increase to her charisma.
Ferix will attempt to parlay initially – to gauge her opponents. This gives her a chance to study them. During this time she will attempt to gather any information she can about recent activities nearby if possible, but more importantly she will analyze the party makeup, trying to discern who the threats are. 
Knowing that it will take a few rounds for attackers to get to her by foot, Ferix will immediately fly up and hover over the group, using her breath weapon targeting as many people as possible, but making sure to get those individuals she considers major threats – spellcasters. She will then fly back and wait to see what her attackers do next.
Ferix counters with _grease_ spells to knock anyone climbing up the side of her plateau wall. The DC for climbing the wall here under normal conditions is DC 15. Under the effects of a _grease_ spell it increases to a DC of 25. Once her _grease_ spells are depleted, she will attempt to bull rush individuals off. Because Ferix has Improved Bull Rush, her bull rushes do not provoke attacks of opportunity, and she has a +4 on opposed strength checks. Victims pushed off the plateau wall fall into the water and are subject to attack from Ferix’s younger brother Artix. See Artix’s section on tactics for more details here.


*Artix, Young Green Dragon (CR 5)
Medium Dragon [Air] *
*Hit Dice: * 11d12+22 (93 hp)
*Initiative: * +0 
*Speed:* 40 ft., fly 150 ft. (poor), swim 40 ft
*AC:* 20 (+10 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 20; (24 with _mage armor_)
*BAB/Grapple: *+11/+14
*Full Attack:* 1 bite +15 (1d8+3), 2 claws +15 (1d6+1), 2 wings +14 (1d4+1)
*Space/Reach*: 5 ft./5 ft. 
*Special Attacks:* Breath Weapon (DC 17)
*Special Qualities:* Darkvision 120’, Blindsense, Immunities, Keen Senses, Immunity to Acid, Water Breathing
*Saves:* Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +8
*Abilities: * Str 17, Dex 10, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 12
*Alignment:* Lawful Evil
*CR: * 5
*Skills:* *Bluff +5* (+4 ranks, +1 Cha), *Concentration +6* (+4 ranks, +2 Con), *Diplomacy +5* (+4 ranks, +1 Cha), *Escape Artist +4* (+4 ranks, +0 Dex), *Hide +16 (+14 ranks, +2 Stealthy, +0 Dex), Intimidate +7 (+6 ranks, +1 Cha), Listen +17 (+14 ranks, +2 Alertness, +1 Wis), Move Silently +16 (+14 ranks,  +2 Stealthy, +0 Dex), Search +11* (+10 ranks, +1 Int), *Sense Motive +7* (+6 ranks, +1 Wis), *Spot +17* (+14 ranks, +2 Alertness, +1 Wis), *Use Magic Device* +5 (+4 ranks, +1 Cha)
*Feats:* Alertness, Stealthy, Hover, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (bite)

*Breath Weapon (Su):* Artix’s breath weapon is a cone of corrosive gas dealing 6d6 points of acid damage. This cone extends 30 feet out. Reflex save DC 17 for half damage.  
*Immunities (Ex):* All dragons have immunity to sleep and paralysis effects. 
*Blindsense (Ex):* Dragons can pinpoint creatures within a distance of 60 feet. Opponents the dragon can’t actually see still have total concealment against the dragon.
*Keen Senses (Ex):* A dragon sees four times as well a human in shadowy illumination and twice as well in normal light. It also has darkvision out to 120 feet.
*Water Breathing (Ex):* A green dragon can breathe underwater indefinitely and can freely use its breath weapon, spells, and other abilities while submerged.

*Artix’s Tactics*
Artix lies in the deep end of the pool hiding - waiting for opportunities to present themselves. The DC to spot Artix while he is submerged is his Hide check (+16) plus a conditional modifier of +10 (feel free to adjust this downwards in the presence of sufficiently bright light). Artix attacks anyone thrown into the pool by his larger sister. In game terms, he will hold his initiative until an opportunity presents itself. Once this happens, he will attempt to grapple and submerge his pray – swimming back to area 10. It takes Artix 5 rounds to swim back to the area 10 – where he will let go of his prey before swimming back to join his sister. Here, underwater, in utter blackness, the PC needs to make a search check (DC 20) in order to find the opening to the air chamber. In addition, if the PC has been grappling with Artix for the 5 rounds it took to get here, that counts as 10 rounds of holding their breath against their constitution score.

Attacking Artix while he is submerged with a ranged weapon from land incurs a -2 penalty to hit.

It’s about 180’ from the chamber in area 10 to breathable air back in area 8. Swimming through this water requires a DC 10 swim check each round. A character with a movement of 30’ can swim 15’ per round as a full round action with a DC 10 swim check. This will require 12 rounds. A character can hold her breath underwater for a number of rounds equal to her constitution score. After this time, each round requires a DC 10 constitution check. The DC increases by 1 each round. When the character finally fails her check, they begin to drown. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hp). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she drowns.
Incidentally, it is only half as far back (90') from the chamber in area 10, to breathable air in room 6.

If the combat goes against Ferix, Artix will rise out of the water and attack while hovering. He will counter first with a breathe weapon, and then will engage in melee attacking the strongest looking opponents first.

*Treasure: *The plateau where Ferix and Artix reside is covered in treasure. There are two large piles of coins where the two dragons make their beds. The total amount from coinage is 10,137 cp, 5,913 sp, 2,154 gp and 207 pp. In addition, there are a number of magic items – a potion of _barkskin_ (+2), a set of slightly corroded +1 full plate armor (a craftsmen could polish it back to its full glory in 1d4 days), a wand of _eagle’s splendor_ (24 charges), and Bracers of Armor +5. In addition, there are a number of mundane items including a set of lock picks, a large darkwood shield (though slightly pitted from the acidic air), a MW composite (+2 strength) shortbow, a MW cold iron greataxe, 3 smokesticks, and a vial of antitoxin. There is also a small box which contains 13 pearls – 12 white, irregular pearls (10gp each), and a single black pearl (worth 500gp).

Contributed by: Curtis "der_kluge" Bennett


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## Conaill (May 23, 2006)

Imagicka said:
			
		

> One of the things I always felt was lacking was a good guide to caves, how they are formed, how big they can become...what factors create them (yeah yeah... I know...water and time...) as well as what kind of creatures/monsters you can expect from them.



This may be a useful resource, at least to figure out the creature availability:

Monster Geographica: Underground

Given Expeditious Retreat Press's thoroughness in other publications, I wouldn't be surprised if it did a decent job at covering the "intro to cavology" apect as well, but AFAIK this one is just a listing of monsters: "200 monsters from the depths of the earth, compiled from over a dozen sources, including 92 classic 3.0 monsters updated for a 3.5 game!"


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## Elephant (May 24, 2006)

Imagicka said:
			
		

> Greetings...
> Why not have two dragons?  Or a family of green dragons inhabitanting the cave?  Put the nursery in room 12, or in room 10, and with the tresure/main lair in room 12?




For a family to work, there would have to be a dragon old enough to be the parent.  Young Adult, at CR 11, is still too young to be the mom to a Juvenile or even Young offspring.

Young Adult *could* work as a separate Room, but I don't think three separate dragons in a single 12-encounter complex works very well - I think players would enjoy a bit more variety than that.


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## Tonguez (May 24, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> For a family to work, there would have to be a dragon old enough to be the parent.  Young Adult, at CR 11, is still too young to be the mom to a Juvenile or even Young offspring.
> 
> Young Adult *could* work as a separate Room, but I don't think three separate dragons in a single 12-encounter complex works very well - I think players would enjoy a bit more variety than that.




what about have the third parent dragon be 'absent'. As the PCs explore them come across signs of a much bigger creature but never actually encounter it because the Mother is away with a new mate or something.

If the PCs kill the two juveniles here they may have a vengeful mother come hunting them down when they reach higher levels.


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## Elephant (May 24, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> what about have the third parent dragon be 'absent'. As the PCs explore them come across signs of a much bigger creature but never actually encounter it because the Mother is away with a new mate or something.
> 
> If the PCs kill the two juveniles here they may have a vengeful mother come hunting them down when they reach higher levels.





Now that's what I'm talking about!  Mom is away, so the PCs actually have a chance at surviving this deathtrap.


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Now that's what I'm talking about!  Mom is away, so the PCs actually have a chance at surviving this deathtrap.




The problem with that is that the "parent" would leave a large horde of treasure around unguarded. So, you'd essentially be giving the PCs a lot of high level loot without the work.

I like it fine as is - two young siblings. If you kill them, the mother might still come looking for you, but she probably lives elsewhere.


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## Raven Crowking (May 24, 2006)

Assign me whatever room you like.  That is an awesome map.

RC


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## Elephant (May 24, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Heh, that choker has more hit points than a CR 8 green dragon!




Wow.  I didn't realize that as I was creating the statblock.  Should I perhaps drop a couple of the sorcerer levels?


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Wow.  I didn't realize that as I was creating the statblock.  Should I perhaps drop a couple of the sorcerer levels?




Yea, maybe. He could still open with ray of enfeeblement.


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2006)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Assign me whatever room you like.  That is an awesome map.
> 
> RC





Raven, I assigned room 6 to you.  Enjoy!


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2006)

Can anyone tell me what the EL is for the dragon room?  I don't have my DMG with me. Two creatures - CR 8 and 5, with at least a +2 situational modifier.

I'm guessing 12, but I could be wrong.

edit: Wow - what a handy tool - http://www.d20srd.org/encounterCalculator.htm

Looks like it's EL 11.


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## Elephant (May 24, 2006)

Room 2a:

This description covers both of the rough stone hallways leading deeper into the cave from the shelf above the chasm.

Eastern Tunnel:

This passageway is between 10 and 15 feet tall from the point where the tunnel splits all the way to Room 6.  There are holes in the ceiling leading to another (Search check DC 25), wider passage above.  

Getting into the upper passage requires either flight or a DC 14 Use Rope check with a grappling hook.  The terrain there is treated as Difficult; the dragon flies through that tunnel rather than deal with the traps in the lower passage.


Traps (EL 5):

Razor-Wire across Hallway
CR 1; mechanical; location trigger; no reset; Atk +10 melee (2d6, wire); multiple targets (first target in each of two adjacent 5-ft. squares); Search DC 22; Disable Device DC 15.

This trap is located in the square 5 feet into the passage from the point where the tunnel splits.  It is anchored to points that are roughly east-west of each other.

Camouflaged Pit Trap with Acid at the bottom
CR 4; mechanical; automatic reset; DC 20 Reflex save avoids; 20 ft. deep (2d6, fall plus 1d6 per round, acid puddle); multiple targets (first target in each of two adjacent 5-ft. squares); Search DC 24; Disable Device DC 19.

This trap is located 10 feet to the northeast of the razor wire, just after the passage widens.  There are two bypass buttons (Search DC 25, three feet off the ground on the right-hand side) located on each end of the trapped passageway.  Each bypass button temporarily disables both traps for 1 minute (by relaxing the tension on the wire and extending a brace underneath the trapdoor).

DM's Note:  The kobolds use the bypass button to avoid injury while attending to their duties.

South Passage (EL 8):

As the tunnel widens, the ceiling ranges from 20 to 30 feet above.

The tunnel narrows in two points before splitting again to go to Rooms 3 and 5.  The narrower portion is untrapped, but the wider bottleneck has a 10x10' pressure plate that activates

Acid Arrow Trap
CR 8; magic device; touch trigger (pressure-sensitive floor plate, requires over 150 lbs. of weight to set off); automatic reset; multiple traps (two simultaneous acid arrow traps); Atk +9 ranged touch and +9 ranged touch; spell effect (acid arrow, 18th-level wizard, 2d4 acid damage for 7 rounds); Search DC 27; Disable Device DC 27.

DM's Note:  The kobolds fail to set this trap off because of their small size and light weight.  Whenever they come through this tunnel, they make sure that they stay at least 10 feet apart to avoid going over the weight threshold on the trap.  The dragons, being immune to acid, don't care that they activate the trap every time they come through this tunnel.


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## Elephant (May 24, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Yea, maybe. He could still open with ray of enfeeblement.




I weakened his tactics instead and added some notes about relatively easy ways the party could get him in melee.  I also marked it as EL 10; if the choker grabs the arcane PC, that character's death is likely in 1-2 rounds.  If, OTOH, he picks on the rogue, he'll have a harder time even hitting, so he'll do less Power Attack damage.

Does that seem more fair?  I could weaken the encounter even more by hiding him behind a stalagmite in the middle of the room - he'll grab a PC, and then the others can easily flank him.  That seems like it might be going TOO far though.


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> I weakened his tactics instead and added some notes about relatively easy ways the party could get him in melee.  I also marked it as EL 10; if the choker grabs the arcane PC, that character's death is likely in 1-2 rounds.  If, OTOH, he picks on the rogue, he'll have a harder time even hitting, so he'll do less Power Attack damage.
> 
> Does that seem more fair?  I could weaken the encounter even more by hiding him behind a stalagmite in the middle of the room - he'll grab a PC, and then the others can easily flank him.  That seems like it might be going TOO far though.




Yea, that's good. We'll need to playtest it. 

I added a section 2a to the map, and assigned you to it.


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## der_kluge (May 24, 2006)

I appreciate any feedback anyone might have on the dragon's chamber (post 84).

It's delightfully nasty.


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## Elephant (May 25, 2006)

Re: post 84:

Delightfully nasty is right.  I love how the younger one lurks in the water, waiting to ambush his victims.

Would it be unfair to say that the Choker will use Ghost Sound (or Dancing Lights) to alert the dragons when he fights someone?


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## Tonguez (May 25, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> The problem with that is that the "parent" would leave a large horde of treasure around unguarded. So, you'd essentially be giving the PCs a lot of high level loot without the work.
> 
> I like it fine as is - two young siblings. If you kill them, the mother might still come looking for you, but she probably lives elsewhere.




Hmm  perhaps this whole complex is a 'Nursery' were Ferix and Artix were birthed/layed and then left by their mother. It might be interesting to explore the psychology of juvinile dragons in this encounter. 

Do juvinile dragons play? What interests a teenage Dragon like Ferix? Will the complex have signs of dragon-ish 'toys' - and exactly what do Dragons play with?

The Mad Halfling on the Island suggested earlier might just be such a play thing - perhaps Artix keeps it as a pet, Ferrix wants to kill it but doesn't out of her love(?) for her younger brother.

Perhaps Ghzzdit the Choker is the Nanny charged with looking after the pair

Perhaps the PCs will come across _a stange arrangement of rocks piled on upon the other with fragments of bone, skulls, crystal and plant material deliberately placed upon the structure. Deep grooves are gouged into the sides of the base stone whilst the stones upon it seem to form a rough pyramid-like structure._ (Lurking here is a few giant spiders OR rats OR etc 


The PCs could spend hours pondering what the strange structure means - and all the time it was Artix playing with his blocks


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## Roger (May 25, 2006)

Area #11 for me, please.


Cheers,
Roger


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Re: post 84:
> 
> Delightfully nasty is right.  I love how the younger one lurks in the water, waiting to ambush his victims.
> 
> Would it be unfair to say that the Choker will use Ghost Sound (or Dancing Lights) to alert the dragons when he fights someone?





One thing I was going to comment on, but forget was how you had the Choker cast two spells during his surprise round. Wouldn't he only be able to get one spell off during his surprise round?

I would imagine that the Choker would have to have some sort of agreement with the dragons that they agree to let him live there so long as he agrees not to attack them. Seems to me that the Choker could totally take Artix in a fight if he really wanted to. 

But, under normal circumstances, I doubt the Choker would have time to really warn the dragons with a ghost sound or anything like that. He'll be too busy attacking, or defending himself from attackers, should they come.


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Roger said:
			
		

> Area #11 for me, please.
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> Roger





Assigned.

Anyone want room 12?  Do we even want room 12 on the map?


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## Ilium (May 25, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Assigned.
> 
> Anyone want room 12?  Do we even want room 12 on the map?



 I won't volunteer to take it until I've done the room I already grabbed, but I like the room's layout a lot.  Let's keep it for now and maybe somebody will have a brainstorm for it.

I've got something percolating in the back of my mind already, but if somebody else has a more fleshed-out idea, they should run with it.


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## Roger (May 25, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Anyone want room 12?  Do we even want room 12 on the map?




Thanks.  And I kinda need room 12 to still be there.


Cheers,
Roger


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Shieldhaven, if you end up putting the halfling in room 10, it seems very likely that he was placed there by Artix during a failed attack on the sibling dragons some time ago. (read Artix's tactics)


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

If possible, I might have an opportunity to playtest this dungeon next week. I'm specifically very interested in seeing how my dragon chamber does, and the Choker does.

I'd like to see if I could get a sub of rooms 6, and maybe 3/4 (I can close off 11 and 12 if they're not done yet, I can also close off room 9) so I can get a rudimentary playtest result.

This would need to be done by the 1st of June.


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## Tonguez (May 25, 2006)

BTW Can I have either room 5 or Room 12


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## Ilium (May 25, 2006)

I should be able to get my room done by June 1.  Might not be until this week-end but June 1 should be no problem.


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## Shieldhaven (May 25, 2006)

Re: halfling (Jeeral Smoketallow) - I am currently setting things up so that the contents of the room justify his continuing presence there.  He doesn't ever need to leave, because he's a fifth-level cleric and can cast _create food and water_.  He doesn't want to leave because the pillar on the island is corrupting him and making him its pawn.  We'll see if I can make this idea play out intelligibly.

I suppose, in terms of a metagame approach to the cave, I'm writing this as if the pillar itself is just as worthy of a goal for dungeon-crawling as slaying Artix and Ferix would be.  This is intended as a good thing - a GM who wanted to drop this cave into their campaigns would find that it either added a huge cool dragon fight to an essentially archaeological mission, or added a dark prophecy and archaeology to their essentially monsterslaying mission.

der_kluge, since this is your baby, I'm looking to you to make sure you dig this.  If this isn't a direction that interests you, say so and I'll devise alt.wickedness.

Haven


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Shieldhaven said:
			
		

> Re: halfling (Jeeral Smoketallow) - I am currently setting things up so that the contents of the room justify his continuing presence there.  He doesn't ever need to leave, because he's a fifth-level cleric and can cast _create food and water_.  He doesn't want to leave because the pillar on the island is corrupting him and making him its pawn.  We'll see if I can make this idea play out intelligibly.
> 
> I suppose, in terms of a metagame approach to the cave, I'm writing this as if the pillar itself is just as worthy of a goal for dungeon-crawling as slaying Artix and Ferix would be.  This is intended as a good thing - a GM who wanted to drop this cave into their campaigns would find that it either added a huge cool dragon fight to an essentially archaeological mission, or added a dark prophecy and archaeology to their essentially monsterslaying mission.
> 
> ...





It's not "my baby". But, I'm really digging where you're going with this. So, I look forward to seeing what you come up with.


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> BTW Can I have either room 5 or Room 12





Yes. Which one do you want?


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## Raven Crowking (May 25, 2006)

Okay, in order to do Area 6, I have to make sure I understand the water flow here.  I assume that the water is coming into Area 6, then exiting toward the top of the map.  Is that right?

I am thinking that this will be a no-monster area, with some brick-a-brac to make it interesting, the water as a challenge, and some foreshadowing.


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## Elephant (May 25, 2006)

IRT Raven Crowking:

For Room 7 to work, the Choker needs some sort of noise to hear from Room 6 (to give him time to cast his buff spells).

IRT der_kluge:

I assumed that the Choker's Quickness included surprise rounds.  If that's not generally accepted to be the case, I can edit the entry.

===================

Quickness (Su)

Although not particularly dexterous, a choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn each round.


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Okay, in order to do Area 6, I have to make sure I understand the water flow here.  I assume that the water is coming into Area 6, then exiting toward the top of the map.  Is that right?
> 
> I am thinking that this will be a no-monster area, with some brick-a-brac to make it interesting, the water as a challenge, and some foreshadowing.





I think that's a good assumption, given the elevation as I have drawn it. There's probably an underground stream feeding into area 6. I describe a waterfall falling into area 8. It's reasonable to assume that the pool ther exits to go out somewhere, possibly deeper into the earth somewhere through tiny cracks. If the rock is shale, it would certainly be easy enough for the water to find a way out somewhere.


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> IRT Raven Crowking:
> 
> For Room 7 to work, the Choker needs some sort of noise to hear from Room 6 (to give him time to cast his buff spells).
> 
> ...





Wow, that's an anomaly. I hadn't noticed that before. I did a search for "quickness" in the SRD, and that's the only occurrence of that ability. Wraiths are described as having an unnatural quickness, but they don't have that ability.

I agree that having an extra standard action would allow it to cast an extra spell. That would make said creature very potent indeed. I mean, they nerfed Haste to avoid that very thing. 

I don't know. What do others think here?


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## Raven Crowking (May 25, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> IRT Raven Crowking:
> 
> For Room 7 to work, the Choker needs some sort of noise to hear from Room 6 (to give him time to cast his buff spells).




I was thinking that, with the steep slopes, I might foreshadow the shale in the dragons' lair.  That way, when the PCs encounter that area, it will not seem arbitrary.

RC


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## Shieldhaven (May 25, 2006)

Re: chokers - 
Mainly I think it's a poorly written monster, because a full action plus a standard action in a round is heinous (and, as you point out, unique to chokers).  Of course, it takes the pretty serious tweak that Elephant has used to get them into broken territory, since the "average" choker has 4 Int and 7 Cha (though, admittedly, 13 Wis), and advances by HD rather than character class.

Having said all of that, Ghzzdit is legitimate by the RAW, but the CR for the encounter should be commensurately high.

Haven


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## Conaill (May 25, 2006)

Shieldhaven said:
			
		

> Re: chokers -
> Mainly I think it's a poorly written monster, because a full action plus a standard action in a round is heinous (and, as you point out, unique to chokers).  Of course, it takes the pretty serious tweak that Elephant has used to get them into broken territory, since the "average" choker has 4 Int and 7 Cha (though, admittedly, 13 Wis), and advances by HD rather than character class.
> 
> Having said all of that, Ghzzdit is legitimate by the RAW, but the CR for the encounter should be commensurately high.
> ...



Note that the Choker technically advances only by HD, _not_ by character levels. Advancing it with Sor levels to give it extra spells per turn is definitely a loophole (and one that is *only* available to DM's, since choker are not considered a playable PC race).

If you're going with this, you should definitely up the CR significantly and/or prohibit him from casting more than one spell a round. And make sure you play this critter at its listed intelligence of *4*! Even buffing before an encounter should be only *barely* within its intellectual capabilities...


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## Elephant (May 25, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Note that the Choker technically advances only by HD, _not_ by character levels. Advancing it with Sor levels to give it extra spells per turn is definitely a loophole (and one that is *only* available to DM's, since choker are not considered a playable PC race).
> 
> If you're going with this, you should definitely up the CR significantly and/or prohibit him from casting more than one spell a round. And make sure you play this critter at its listed intelligence of *4*! Even buffing before an encounter should be only *barely* within its intellectual capabilities...




Hmm...I'd like to see playtesting results before making further changes.  If it ends up being nigh-impossible, I'll just drop the Sor levels, turning it into more of a speedbump encounter.

Still, the ambush part will be fun.


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## der_kluge (May 25, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Hmm...I'd like to see playtesting results before making further changes.  If it ends up being nigh-impossible, I'll just drop the Sor levels, turning it into more of a speedbump encounter.
> 
> Still, the ambush part will be fun.




Well, you said yourself, if it grabs a spellcaster, death is probably imminent in 1-2 rounds. That's a pretty serious encounter.

But some playtesting should tell us for certain.  Admittedly, it is quite the oddity, and this specimen is truly *epic* among choker-kind.


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## Conaill (May 26, 2006)

A few more notes on the choker, now that I've had more time to look at it...

- The choker should definitely *not* be allowed to cast two spells at this CR. Having the capability to do spell+attack or two attacks is already plenty nasty enough. I'd easily add +2 CR for this ability alone.
- Can't "take 20" on Hide spells. Sorry, he'll have to settle for a "mere" DC 30 Hide check. (Not sure where you got the extra 6 to get a DC 46.)
- Keep in mind that the choker does not have Still Spell. So any buffing spells will have to be cast well ahead of time, or may be overheard by the approaching party.
- How did you wind up with a Cha of 14? Even with elite array, size increase and four stat increases, the stats don't seem to add up. By my calculation, he seems to have 9 points of stats too many.
- Keep in mind that this choker is significantly dumber than your average ettercap or otyugh. I doubt it would do more than one buffing spell, unless it felt seriosuly threathened. Not to mentioned being able to remember 14 separate spells with an Int of 4. I'd be seriously tempted to raise its Int to 6 at least, to get a more plausible build...


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## Tonguez (May 26, 2006)

I'll take 5, its small enough to handle for now and I'll leave someone else to do 12 (the size of it suggest it needs something special - especially with that pool of water in it.

I'm thinking of having cavern 5 have a natural stairway structure (the map suggests such) and its roof be open to the sky before descending again to cavern 12. ie a freak high point in a deep cave - which will allow me to add in some 'different' ecology.

Whats happening in Cavern 11? that might have a bearing (or not)


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## Conaill (May 26, 2006)

An idea for area 12:

How about a black pudding masquerading as (or simply hiding in) a pool of water, cutting off the exit for a small band of kobolds/goblins (let's just call them koblins for now) holed up on the platform? If they stay far enough back, the pudding doesn't notice them, but they're too outclassed to leave. They've been stuck there for weeks now, living off their Clr5's Create Food & Water and the occasional party member - waiting for the ooze to go back to where it came from elsewhere in the cave complex. 

The ooze will wait until the PCs are alongside the pool to attack. The koblins intend to wait until the ooze attacks them, then try slip out along the other side of the pool - (probably putting them in conflict with the PCs rearguard). 

Add in one young but smart koblin who wants to join forces with the PC's rather than simply feed them to the ooze as bait. (He was probably next on the menu if the koblins didn't get of out there soon...)


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## Tonguez (May 26, 2006)

That works well - I was going to suggest that Cavern 5 had an opening to the outside down which creatures routinely fell (usually to their demise). The Pudding could be such a creature that survived the fall and happened to find a food supply in Cavern 12...


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## Elephant (May 26, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> A few more notes on the choker, now that I've had more time to look at it...
> 
> - The choker should definitely *not* be allowed to cast two spells at this CR. Having the capability to do spell+attack or two attacks is already plenty nasty enough. I'd easily add +2 CR for this ability alone.




A standard action is a standard action.  It's a questionable ability, but I didn't make it up.



> - Can't "take 20" on Hide spells. Sorry, he'll have to settle for a "mere" DC 30 Hide check. (Not sure where you got the extra 6 to get a DC 46.)



Fixed.  I didn't keep the entire entry consistent between edits; he originally had a higher Hide modifier.



> - Keep in mind that the choker does not have Still Spell. So any buffing spells will have to be cast well ahead of time, or may be overheard by the approaching party.



1.  Still Spell is irrelevant.  Do you mean Silent Spell?
2.  That's why he starts casting buffs when he hears combat from Room 6; the clamor of battle masks his verbal components.



> - How did you wind up with a Cha of 14? Even with elite array, size increase and four stat increases, the stats don't seem to add up. By my calculation, he seems to have 9 points of stats too many.



Cha 15-4 = 11, then 3 increases (HD 4, 8, and 12) to get to 14.  I checked and re-checked his stats three times.



> - Keep in mind that this choker is significantly dumber than your average ettercap or otyugh. I doubt it would do more than one buffing spell, unless it felt seriosuly threathened. Not to mentioned being able to remember 14 separate spells with an Int of 4. I'd be seriously tempted to raise its Int to 6 at least, to get a more plausible build...




Is the encounter supposed to be built on D&D rules or your house rules?  Sorcerers aren't dependent on Int for their spells.  

The choker doesn't think about Mage Armor, Shield, Bull's Strength, or Cat's Grace.  He thinks about "Safe, safer.  Stronger, faster."  You don't need to be a supergenius to instinctively strengthen your abilities when hunting.


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## Conaill (May 26, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> A standard action is a standard action.  It's a questionable ability, but I didn't make it up.



True, but it was never intended to mix with class features. That's why the 3.0 Haste was one of the first things to go in the 3.5 revision as well - just way too open to abuse. 

Keep in mind that the CR calculation formulas are not "rules" within which everything is fair game for the DM. They're merely guidelines to help the DM assign a fair CR to the creature. In this case, it's clear that we're dealing with a highly unusual combination of abilities which the standard CR guidelines may not cover. In my opinion, the combination of spellcasting and two standard actions per round would far exceed the "by the book" CR of this creature. 



> 1.  Still Spell is irrelevant.  Do you mean Silent Spell?



Blagh! Of course. 



> Cha 15-4 = 11, then 3 increases (HD 4, 8, and 12) to get to 14.  I checked and re-checked his stats three times.



Gah - I keep saying "elite array", but then I forget to count them in. Nevermind, I'm a doofus... There's the 9 stat points I was missing.


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## Land Outcast (May 26, 2006)

> An idea for area 12:



The area is used as living quarters for a Lizardfolk Shaman and his 2 close adepts (the third was eaten by the dragon). He came with the excuse of having seen the dragon as an unknowing agent of his god/ess(?) in visions, and that he was fated to serve him. (Actually he didn't end up serving often except through magical healing... but see Note2)

After completly ignoring the Lizard's racketing and chewing on one of his subordinates, the Madman Shaman yelled "Consume me body if is your wish!"; the dragon felt not so much as curious as throughly amused about these words, his ego was strongly pumped up: he just *liked* being venerated... even if it was by some lousy lizardfolk.

Of course there was also some material convenience in not eating the "rightful blessed servant", availability of magical healing is much appreciated by anyone. So he was allowed to take up residence with his two -remaining- close subordinates. Quite a bit of time has passed, but the shaman still venerates the dragon as a living aspect of his god's will. 

Will yell at anyone coming in :*"You coming to venerate the Great One's will?!!"*

Note: The Dragon = Either "mommy" or the strongest of those here, depending on wether "mommy" ends up existing or not.

Note2: If the Dragon has some Lizardfolk servants outside the cave, this is their spiritual leader. If not, well... the dragon wasted a opportunity of getting free followers.

Note3: Actually this could work for an area other than 12

Note4: Shaman (Lizardfolk Middle Aged Clr 7, CR 7), Adepts (Lizardfolk Adpt 5/Rng 1, CR 5)... What do you think, a CR 7 and 2 CRs 5 fit well in this pseudo-Communitary-Dungeon?


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## Elephant (May 26, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> True, but it was never intended to mix with class features. That's why the 3.0 Haste was one of the first things to go in the 3.5 revision as well - just way too open to abuse.
> 
> Keep in mind that the CR calculation formulas are not "rules" within which everything is fair game for the DM. They're merely guidelines to help the DM assign a fair CR to the creature. In this case, it's clear that we're dealing with a highly unusual combination of abilities which the standard CR guidelines may not cover. In my opinion, the combination of spellcasting and two standard actions per round would far exceed the "by the book" CR of this creature.




Fair.  I'd like to see it playtested by 3-4 8th level parties, though.  If CR 10 is a gross underestimate of the challenge this encounter provides - such that it causes TPKs to the playtesters, then the problem isn't the CR listed for the encounter - the problem is that I made too strong of a choker.


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## Conaill (May 26, 2006)

Land Outcast said:
			
		

> The area is used as living quarters for a Lizardfolk Shaman and his 2 close adepts (the third was eaten by the dragon). He came with the excuse of having seen the dragon as an unknowing agent of his god/ess(?) in visions, and that he was fated to serve him. (Actually he didn't end up serving often except through magical healing... but see Note2)



Sounds like I have a rival for room #12.

Any votes on which encounter people like better?


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## der_kluge (May 26, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Sounds like I have a rival for room #12.
> 
> Any votes on which encounter people like better?





I think both ideas have merit, but I'd rather see something more along the lines of a puzzle/trap/weird thing going on there.

Personally, I'm not a huge fan of either kobolds, or lizardmen, so I'm slightly more into the idea of having something like a black pudding here, just because they're used so infrequently.

What might be neat is to have a room filled with bones - the servants remove the bones of the dragons' meals. So as to not garner unwanted attention, rather than tossing them out of the cave (it's difficult for non-dragons to leave, anyway), they store all the old bones somewhere. Maybe a yellow mold has taken to living in the area. 

Doesn't have to be room 12, thuogh. 

*shrug*

Technically, no one has claimed that room yet.


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## Conaill (May 26, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Personally, I'm not a huge fan of either kobolds, or lizardmen, so I'm slightly more into the idea of having something like a black pudding here, just because they're used so infrequently.



Don't like kobolds? Goblins it is, then! 

The reason I like the goblin band is to have some "opponents" who are (1) intelligent, and (2) not _necessarily_ out to kill the party. That opens up a whole range of interesting interactions. For example:

- The goblin band only intends to use the PCs as bait for the black pudding, so they themselves can escape. They may need to cut down some of the straggler PCs if they get in the way, but their primary goal is to get the heck outtta there. The average hack-and-slash group of PCs will probably wind up taking on the pudding *and* the goblins at the same time... serves them right! 

- Once they've managed to escape, some of the goblins may decide to trail the PCs and see if they can steal some of their loot 

- The young goblin may serve as a (not entirely thrustworthy) guide for the PCs. Gives the PCs someone to talk to for a change, and allows the DM to interject some clues and/or to elaborate on the history of the cave complex.


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## Conaill (May 26, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Technically, no one has claimed that room yet.



Fine, I'll claim the room... with the understanding that I'll gladly give it up to Land Outcast if people like his idea much better than mine.

Call it right of first refusal, if you wish. 


[Edit: Hmm... maybe I'll make a new critter: Watery Ooze - a variant Black Pudding that's completely shapable and doesn't have the Split SQ, but looks like a pool of water and climbs at only 1/2 normal climbing speed (i.e. 1/8 normal ground speed)]


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## Elephant (May 27, 2006)

I just wanted to point out the following link to the people criticizing my vicious choker:

http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Choker_Assassin,_"Ek_Gub"


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## Land Outcast (May 27, 2006)

> puzzle/trap




That you want that?
Oi oi, then I'll see what I can do about it.
(Feel free to discard or accept the encounter I presented, but make sure to tell me the decision  )


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## Land Outcast (May 27, 2006)

Another option would be changing the lizardfolks to goblins...

Other option would be the one of the golem...


> a clay golem (CR 10) guarding something. The dragons might know it's there, but aren't really strong enough to kill it. As long as they keep the door shut, it quietly guards whatever it was tasked with. The golem never leaves the area.



[sblock=Golem]
He is guarding a door carved with Arcane Symbols (TM) 
(or what seems to be a door and is really a portal which activates when the golem is given the correct *answer*... that would explain why the dragons didn't just dig and found the room behind the door)

The golem speaks -through a _magic mouth_- to whoever comes within 20ft of him:

Golem: *"Only those knowing the answer can get through"*
PC: *any speech*
Golem: *Poses the question* *"Now, tell me the correct answer or depart! Depart from this room or from the realm of the living, you choose!"*

and waits until a right -or wrong- answer is announced; then respectively allows passage through the door, or attacks the one who answered (and whoever attacks him or tries to get to the door without saying the answer).
[/sblock]

ok, that was lame...


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## Land Outcast (May 27, 2006)

Possible encounter:
*A tunneling team of Duergar has found this complex, and sent Scouts and Warriors to do reckoning.

Possible addition to an encounter:
*A rogue Thquoaa has just found this place, and when it tunnels through the wall into the water, the room is filled with steam. 

Possible addition to an encounter (or an encounter in itself):
*Assassin Vine, grapples creatures and tries to drown them.


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## Conaill (May 27, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> I just wanted to point out the following link to the people criticizing my vicious choker:
> 
> http://d20npcs.wikia.com/wiki/Choker_Assassin,_"Ek_Gub"



Note that that one doesn't do two spells a round (it has a small number of Assassin spells, but none of those would really benefit from doing two in a round), and actually has his Int maxed out (even including a headband of intellect). That makes it a better balanced and more believable character in my opinion. 

Still pretty damn nasty though!


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## Elephant (May 27, 2006)

Again, why does a Cha-based caster need to have a high Int to be 'believable' to you?  Why does the choker need to be a genius to instinctively release a sort of magical adrenaline before a battle?

Thinking in those terms, even an animal of Int 1 could reasonably use the buffing spells I've listed.

Besides, I didn't give him any gear.  His class levels are all the weaker for it.

Also, Int is the *casting stat* for Assassins.


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## Conaill (May 27, 2006)

Eh - just seems weird to me that this greatest of all living chokers would be of only middling intelligence for its kind - i.e. about as dumb as a rock - yet be able to use fourteen different magical spells, each of which requires its own set of complex incantations and arcane gestures.

Sure, it's not against the rules. I would just feel more comfortable if such a truly exceptional specimen was at least only _somewhat_ of a blithering idiot. 

This is just my own preference of course. Int score of 6 for example would make it a lot more palatable for me. Less min-maxed, but more of a "viable" creature - something you might actually expect to be able to survive long enough to gain four times its normal amount of hit dice, plus another six PC character class levels.


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## Roger (May 27, 2006)

11:  Fog and Death (EL 10)



> As you descend the narrow twisting passage into this chamber, you find yourself confronted by a thick, dense bank of acrid fog.




While the dragons have been occupying this cave system, small amounts of the corrosive gas they exhale have been dissolving into the bodies of water.  Some of this gas is released back into the air by the pool in area 12.  It has accumulated at the lowest level it can reach, which is this chamber.

Treat this as a permanent _acid fog_ trap which cannot be dispelled or disabled.  Due to the geometry of the chamber, even strong winds cannot disperse the vapours.

Natural Acid Fog Trap
CR 7; magic device; no trigger (always active); simulated spell effect (_acid fog_, 2d6/round acid); Search DC 31; Disable Device --. 

As a method of enforcing obedience among the [goblins], or perhaps just for their cruel amusement, the dragons occasionally order offenders to be bound and thrown into the room.  Their deaths are agonizing as the acid dissolves their bodies.  The pain and suffering has attracted the attention of a greater shadow, who enjoys the horrific spectacle.

Shadow, Greater: CR 8, 60 hp.

Tactics: The greater shadow makes full use of Spring Attack which, along with its incorporeality, allows it to remain within the solid stone walls of the cave itself, coming out only to strike.  Favourite targets for its attacks are the most heavily-armoured characters, as its incorporeal touch can usually ignore all such physical protection.  Coincidentally, these characters are also often the clerics or paladins of the party.

The greater shadow prefers to engage characters who are engulfed in the acid fog and subsequently damaged and hindered by it.  However, if the battle is going in its favour, it will not hesistate to follow and harry its prey for as long as it takes.

Treasure:  [The expected treasure for this encounter is 5206 gp.  As the dragons probably have more than their fair share of treasure, they can 'use' some or all of this amount.  Any treasure actually assigned to this room should be things that can resist acid -- diamonds or other gemstones, perhaps.

This would also be a reasonable place for the dragons to be clever and place some cursed items, if desired.]

Scaling the Encounter:  To reduce the difficulty of this area, the greater shadow (CR 8) could be replaced by a spectre (CR 7), or some number of other undead incorporeal monsters, such as wraiths, shadows, or ghosts.  The trap's damage could be reduced, or removed entirely.  Adding more monsters or trap damage increases the difficulty of this area.

Contributer:  Roger Carbol.


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## Tonguez (May 27, 2006)

Boxed Text



> The smell that assails your nostrils as you enter this passage is a strange combination of rotten eggs and fermenting fruit. Curving slightly to the left you emerge into a carvern bathed in an eerie green light which streams down from above highlighting the visible features a few jagged boulders fallen from above and the stairway-like formation that extends the full width of the cavern and gleams stickily in the green light...



.

The stairway formation rises up about 20 ft has a slippery uneven surface but it can be climbed. Climb DC 25 due to slippery uneven surface, with a chance of further rockfall 

Inspection will show that the rocks are covered in yellow slime that is dripping from snottites (slimey stalactites) hanging from the cave roof overhead. The dripping slime has the properties of green slime (CR 4 1d6 acid damage) and is the source of the rotten egg smell 

At this distance the roof is not visible. 







 Snottites




> Reaching the top you find yourself on a broad platform about 30 feet across and 15 ft wide with another tunnel directly opposite. The source of the green light is now apparent, in the far corner of the cavern  the roof has collapsed admiting light from the surface. However the opening has become so overhung with a thick and twsited tangle of foliage and vines that it creates a virtual cieling of growing fibres. Thick mossy curtains hang down the walls intertwined with large round leaves and dangling vines. The whole verdant mass drips a reddish sap and is the source of the overpowering stink of fermenting fruit.




The Mossy curtain is a colony of 4 Verminvine (see WoTC feature), if the PCs stay 30 ft away and quiet they may be able to pass without encountering the Verminvine however getting closer will cause it to strike out and loud noise will instigate it to use its Insect Plague ability.

The 4 Verminevines each control a swarm (3 of small centipedes and one of hellwasps) which crawl down from the walls and fly out of the mossy curtain to attack.

The most dangerous part of the cave however is the exit passage the roof of which is unstable and ready to collapse a Dwarfs Stonecunning or a Knowledge Engineering check DC 20 should identify this risk. (The cave-in will be triggered if fireball or similar spells are used)

To be continued...


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## Elephant (May 27, 2006)

Tonguez, could you link to the WOTC feature?

der_kluge, would you mind adding the EL for each room to your index?  I'm strongly considering dropping "The Greatest Of Chokerkind" down to a CR 6 or 7 to avoid stocking this cave with too many high-EL encounters (like 8 and 11).

Also, linking each room to the post where it is detailed would make your summary in the initial post even more helpful...if it's not too much trouble.

Edit:  Something like this.

Room 1 - Unassigned.
Room 2 - Scribble. (EL n/a)  http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2844239&postcount=66
Room 2a - Elephant. (north passage, EL 5, south passage, EL 8) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2846124&postcount=95
Room 3 - Whizbang Dustyboots.
Room 4 - Ilium.
Room 5 - Unassigned.
Room 6 - Raven Crowking.
Room 7 - Elephant. (EL 10 or 6) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2844015&postcount=64
Room 8 - der_kluge (dragon's lair, EL 11). http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2844714&postcount=84
Room 9 - Unassigned.
Room 10 - Shieldhaven.
Room 11 - Roger. (EL 10) http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=2852866&postcount=141
Room 12 - Unassigned.

====================================

Also, I'll cook up something mean for Room 5 if no one else claims it.


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## der_kluge (May 28, 2006)

Elephant, yes I can update that. Thanks for the links. I'll do that shortly.  I think dropping the CR of the choker down a few pegs might be good. It's on par with the dragon room, and if we want to try to keep the dungeon to around CR 8 or maybe 9, we should keep that room as the most difficult room.  


Tonguez, not to be pedantic here, but you've not technically signed up for a room. Which room description are you writing up, and I'll assign you to it. It sounds like room 5, is that right?


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## der_kluge (May 28, 2006)

*1. Cave Entrance (EL 6 - if rust monsters are present; EL 0 otherwise)*



> The cavern entrance is not unlike any other earthen cave you've ever been in - the air is still and quiet. The roughly 10 foot wide entrance opens up considerably, and almost immediately doubles in width. Further into the cave, you can just make out what appears to be a small pool of water.




This cave is normally the home to two rust monsters. Ferix, the dragon (see area 8) often supplies these creatures with bits of metal that she finds to encourage them to nest here. So while the rust monsters have a fairly steady supply of food, it's in their nature to constantly wander the countryside to satiate their metallic hunger. This frustrates Ferix to no end, who would love to see the two remain here constantly as guards protecting the entranceway, but she knows that, at best, all she can do is keep them from leaving completely. The rust monsters are encountered here only on a roll of 1 on a 1d4 if entering the dungeon - 1 to 2 on a 1d4 if they are leaving the dungeon (assuming they weren't encountered before).

*Rust Monsters (2)
Medium Aberration*
*Hit Dice:*	8d8+16 (52 hp)
*Initiative:*	+3
*Speed:*	40 ft. (8 squares)
*Armor Class:*	18 (+3 Dex, +5 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 15
*Base Attack/Grapple:*	+6/+6
*Attack:*	Antennae touch +3 melee (rust)
*Full Attack:*	Antennae touch +6/+1 melee (rust) and bite +0/+0 melee (1d3)
*Space/Reach:*	5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:*	Rust
*Special Qualities:*	Darkvision, scent
*Saves:*	Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +7
*Abilities:*	Str 10, Dex 17, Con 14, Int 2, Wis 13, Cha 8
*Skills:*	Listen +9, Spot +8
*Feats:*	Alertness, Track, Ability Focus (Rust)
*Environment:*	Underground
*Organization:*	Solitary or pair
*Challenge Rating:*	4
*Alignment:*	neutral

These rust monsters are mostly dark brown with a dark red back. They are about 6 feet long, and just over 3 feet high, and each weighs about 250 pounds. These rust monsters are a little fatter and bigger than most.
*Tactics*
These rust monsters, like all rust monsters, are voracious eaters of metal. They can smell metal of any kind up to 90 feet away. They will always attack the largest source of metal first, striking at armor, then shields, then weapons. They will not fight to the death, and will flee if seriously injured.
*Rust (Ex):* A rust monster that makes a successful touch attack with its antennae causes the target metal to corrode, falling to pieces and becoming useless immediately. The touch can destroy up to a 10-foot cube of metal instantly. Magic armor and weapons, and other magic items made of metal, must succeed on a DC 22 Reflex save or be dissolved. The save DC is Constitution-based and includes a +4 racial bonus and a +2 from Ability Focus.
A metal weapon that deals damage to a rust monster corrodes immediately. Wooden, stone, and other nonmetallic weapons are unaffected.


The floor here is very soft and powdery. Closer examination will reveal that it is in fact piles of rust. Anyone with any sort of metal-related craft skill can identify its nature, otherwise, a DC 10 intelligence check can determine what it is.

Searching this room (DC 10) reveals some old leather armor riddled with holes. This was once studded leather which is now somewhat tattered from all the metallic studs being chewed off. It's quite old, and has no identifiable markings. There are also 7 wooden handles scattered about, which were once attached to axes and hammers. Hidden within the layers of powder, an exhaustive search (DC 30) will uncover 5 onyx buttons (apparently missed by the dragons) worth a total of 40gp. 

Anyone making a survival check in the cave (DC 10) will notice dragon tracks heading into the pool, and strange insect-like tracks belonging to rust monsters. Seasoned adventurers will figure those out right away, otherwise a Knowledge (Dungeoneering) check of a DC 10 will be able to identify the owners.

The water here is muddy, though not terribly deep. A successful search in the water (DC 15) will reveal a submerged underwater passage leading further into the cave. A more thorough search (DC 25) will reveal that this passageway has been clawed into being wider. The tunnel is just over 15' in length. Anyone swimming under it can do so in a single round with a DC 10 Swim check. Because it is so shallow, it's possible to simply crawl on the bottom of the tunnel, for those in heavy armor, though only at a rate of 5' per round.

Contributor: Curtis "der_kluge" Bennett


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## Tonguez (May 28, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Tonguez, not to be pedantic here, but you've not technically signed up for a room. Which room description are you writing up, and I'll assign you to it. It sounds like room 5, is that right?




Oh I put in dibs at post 123 - sorry I didn't wait for confirmation

Yes room 5 and whats there at the moment is still only a base draft - it is a bit _too_ easy atm and lacks something special - hence the to be continued comment.


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## der_kluge (May 28, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Oh I put in dibs at post 123 - sorry I didn't wait for confirmation
> 
> Yes room 5 and whats there at the moment is still only a base draft - it is a bit _too_ easy atm and lacks something special - hence the to be continued comment.





Oh ok. I'll add you to it. 

If this cavern opens up to the sky, is this where the dragon enters?  That makes the whole chasm, underwater tunnel thing in areas 1/2 kind of moot.


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## Raven Crowking (May 28, 2006)

*Area 6:  Pool Slide*



			
				Flavour Text said:
			
		

> As you move down the passage, you can hear the drip and splash of water ahead.  A small alcove to your left is thick with stalactites, stalagmites, and columns of stone – what seems like rashers of frozen bacon flow between them.  You might be able to worm your way in there, but it would be a tight squeeze.
> 
> In front of you, the passage slopes away steeply into darkness.  The floor is made of broken pieces of shale.  It is from this direction that you can hear water flowing.




In ages past, water once flowed from the alcove down into Area 6, and the humidly has kept this area looking much as it once did.  What looks like bacon is actually called “cave bacon”, a mineral formation composed of calcite with alternating bands of mineral impurities.  Tiny openings in the cave ceiling reach the surface.  Although they are now somewhat choked with the roots of plants, this area seems to dimly glow during the daytime if viewed without an artificial light source.  These openings are a food source for the cave, allowing small insects and spiders to dwell herein.

Exploring this area requires an Escape Artist check (DC 10) for Medium creatures.  Anyone searching this area may find a rusted iron buckle from a belt that was long ago eaten away (DC 10) eight scattered ivory buttons (DC 12, each worth 1 sp) and a silver brooch that looks like a stylized bird in flight (DC 20).  The brooch appears to be worth about 50 gp, but is actually a _brooch of shielding_ lost here long before the dragons came.

The steep slope is made of shale, but close examination (Track DC 15) shows that the rock has been pitted and moved by the passage of the dragons.  Climbing down the steep incline quietly is difficult but not impossible (Move Silently DC 20).  Far more dangerous is the chance of rock sliding beneath one’s feet – traversing this slope requires a Balance check (DC 15).  Those who fail fall, sliding down the slope toward the water below.  This is very loud, echoing along the cavern walls and automatically alerting the choker in Area 7.  Sliding characters are allowed a Reflex save (DC 15) to catch themselves before sliding into the water at the bottom of this passage.

Climbing back up this passage requires a Climb check (DC 10) due to the shifting stones. 



			
				Flavour Text said:
			
		

> At the bottom of the passage is a pool of dark water, some 40 feet across and perhaps twice as wide.  Water pours from cracks in the right-hand wall into the pool and drips from stalactites 20 feet overhead.  You cannot easily tell where the pool drains.  On the far side, directly before you, you can see a wide beach and another passage leading steeply upward and further into the cave.




The water in this pool is varies from an average of 3-5 feet deep to 10 feet deep in the deepest areas.  This pool drains into a 20-foot deep but relatively slow-moving underground stream flowing into Area 10.  Along the bottom of the pool, a few long cracks 1-2 inches wide allow water to seep down farther into the earth, giving this additional drainage.  At the DM's discretion, characters who explore these cracks might find them leading into the ceiling of a water-filled cavern network even deeper underground.

This area provides a swimming hazard, but is otherwise safe.  Of course, Small characters that slide into the pool must swim or drown – a feat that wearing heavy armour makes difficult.

Because of the depth of the underground river, the dragons are more than capable of swimming from Area 8 to Area 10, and then to Area 6.  For this reason, the passage to Area 7 shows none of the pitting and wear that the passage to the pool did.  The slope to Area 7 is also not as steep as the previous passage, and is made of more solid stone.

Although climbing this passage is easy (DC 0), circumstance modifiers for trying to climb it at speed while in combat might require an actual check.  Characters who somehow escape (but do not defeat) the dragons in Area 8 might discover Artix rising out of the pool here while Ferix comes from behind.


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## Tonguez (May 29, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Oh ok. I'll add you to it.
> 
> If this cavern opens up to the sky, is this where the dragon enters?  That makes the whole chasm, underwater tunnel thing in areas 1/2 kind of moot.




I had considered that so as I concieved it

1. The passage ways are too small for the dragons to move through easily
2. The opening is overgrown with a thick tangle of overgrowth (_hmm perhaps a colony of Verminvines_). The overgrowth admits filtered light but doesn't allow access from below but if enough weight is applied the moss mat will tend to tear (and creatures above fall through) 
3. The Verminvine(s) controls a swarm of stinging vermin which even the Dragons would find _really_ annoying (especially if the passageways restrict movement)


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## der_kluge (May 29, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> I had considered that so as I concieved it
> 
> 1. The passage ways are too small for the dragons to move through easily
> 2. The opening is overgrown with a thick tangle of overgrowth (_hmm perhaps a colony of Verminvines_). The overgrowth admits filtered light but doesn't allow access from below but if enough weight is applied the moss mat will tend to tear (and creatures above fall through)
> 3. The Verminvine(s) controls a swarm of stinging vermin which even the Dragons would find _really_ annoying (especially if the passageways restrict movement)





Are Verminvines OGL-compliant?


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## Roger (May 29, 2006)

Re: Area #1.

I'm not entirely sure rust monsters are a good idea here, for the following reasons:

1.  They're just not fun.  I don't think players say "Oh boy, there's some rust monsters to kill!" the way they might about, say, trolls or gargoyles.

2.  The most common tactic to deal with them, I would hazard the guess, would be to fall back and pelt them with spells and/or ranged weapons.  This means the DM would need an outdoors map of the area leading up to the cave, which I don't think we're intending on supplying.

3.  I'm not sure how they fit into the ecology of the cave so far.  Are the goblins or lizardmen or whatnot raiding the local iron mine to feed these things, or what?  That sounds like more hassle than they're worth.


That's just my opinion on it -- hopefully the other contributers will also make their thoughts known.


Cheers,
Roger


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## der_kluge (May 29, 2006)

Roger said:
			
		

> Re: Area #1.
> 
> I'm not entirely sure rust monsters are a good idea here, for the following reasons:
> 
> ...





Fair enough. I'm not married to the idea.  I'll think about what else I might could put there.


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## Elephant (May 30, 2006)

Gargoyles.  Put a dozen lifelike statues in the initial cave, and have the gargoyles hiding amongst them.  4-6 'goyles would be about right (2-4 if you advance them).


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## Ilium (May 30, 2006)

Ok, obviously I didn't get my post up this week-end as planned.  Curse that holiday fun! 

I'm working on it now.  Even though I don't even have the swarm stats in yet, I'm going to post it here and keep working on it a few minutes at a time throughout the day.

Room 4



> The first thing you notice as you approach this tunnel opening is an overpowering acrid stench, with an undercurrent of decay.  The floor of the tunnel is formed of stone worn smooth, apparently by frequent travel.  It slopes down steeply, then seems to level out some 30 feet ahead as the tunnel opens out into a larger space.  The walls and floor glisten with moisture and the sound of dripping water can be heard in the dark below.




The sloped floor of the tunnel is extremely slippery.  A DC 10 Balance check is required to move down the slope without falling prone.  Attempting to move up the slope requires a DC 25 Balance check, and each square entered costs two squares of movement.  An adventurer can instead use a DC 15 climb check but will then move at climb speed rather than normal movement speed, lose Dex bonus to AC, and otherwise be under the restrictions of making a Climb check.  

If a rope is affixed at the top of the slope and used to assist a descending character, a DC 5 balance check is all that is needed to keep from falling.  If a rope is used by a character to go up the slope, the Balance or Climb DC is reduced by 10. Anyone who falls prone on the slope must make a DC 20 Reflex save or slide down to the bottom.  This causes no damage.


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> I'll grab area 4 if that's OK.
> 
> I'm picturing that slope as being wet and extremely slippery, and living in area 4 are vast numbers of something tiny (or Diminutive) and hungry.  Some kind of swarm that spends its days in here and goes outside through teeny cracks in the roof to feed at night.  Bats, maybe.





			
				Roger said:
			
		

> 11:  Fog and Death (EL 10)
> 
> While the dragons have been occupying this cave system, small amounts of the corrosive gas they exhale have been dissolving into the bodies of water.  Some of this gas is released back into the air by the pool in area 12.  It has accumulated at the lowest level it can reach, which is this chamber.




I was just thinking that it may make more sense if these two rooms were swapped. #11 is awfully far from where the dragons reside, for gas to accumulate there. Area 4 might be a better place for that - it's even deepr than #11, and it's al downhill from 2a to there (compared to #11 which is located after a significant rise in #5). (Also, the "pool" in #12 may or may not wind up being an actual pool...)

What do you say - makes sense?


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

Some more items for clarification...


			
				der_kluge said:
			
		

> Dragon’s chamber (EL 11)
> 
> This large chamber is over 120’ feet across, and anywhere from 80 to 100 feet tall. Stalactites (some as tall as 20 feet) dot the ceiling. The sound of water fills this chamber – echoing off the stones. In the distant corner, a waterfall from an underground stream pours in and falls some 75’ into the pool. An underwater tunnel some 5’ below the surface connects this room to area 10.



Did you intend the water to flow in from the far waterfall, and flow out through the underwater tunnel to #10? If so, that's opposite to the direction implied by the water levels in #8-#10-#6. Or do you mean there's two inflows into #8: the waterfall in the far corner, and the tunnel from #10? In that case, we also need an outflow channel for the water...



			
				Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Flavour Text said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Keep in mind there's a *Large* dragon housed in this cave complex. If the passage from 2a to 6 is a "tight squeeze" requiring an Escape Artist check for a Medium creature, it should be impassable for a Large creature. Which way did you intend the dragon to enter and leave the cave complex? Or did I misinterpret something here?...


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## Ilium (May 31, 2006)

Since area 11 also has the down-slope it will work for me.  That's really the only thing that makes these swarms worth including in this level adventure.  If it's OK with Roger, it's OK with me.


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## Roger (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> I was just thinking that it may make more sense if these two rooms were swapped.




I don't especially care; I'll leave it in the hands of the editor.


Cheers,
Roger


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 31, 2006)

*Area 3: Tribute of the Night Woods Kobolds*

_Work in progress:_

Over the past decade, the kobolds of the Night Woods a dozen miles away have sent yearly tribute to the dragons of the cave, both out of fear and a certain sense of worship.

The tribute initially were captured maidens from the surrounding villages, but that had the unfortunate side effect of bringing a group of adventurers down on the kobolds, ensconced in the night-like reaches of their darkened woods. Although the Night Woods Kobolds survived the adventurers, thanks to a booby-trapped false dungeon complex of ancient rotting trees, they realized they had to come up with something better. Ironically, that's when one of the kobolds sent along to accompany the previous tribute brought a message from the dragons: send more kobolds.

It turned out that the kobolds -- with their abject willingness to serve as slaves to the dragons, and their fanatical willingness to overlook a kobold here or there being eaten when one of the dragons felt the need -- were the gift that keeps on giving as far as the dragons were concerned.

Most of the time, the dragons ignore the kobolds, but the kobolds perform all the sorts of minor duties a massive dragon is unable (or unwilling) to perform on their own: Cleaning of scales, patrolling the corridors for intruders, trap creation (and building and testing and resetting), sweeping up all but the most impressive remains of slain enemies and even occasionally serving as the dragons' emissaries to the outside world (which is not a task the dragons would admit to needing, but which has sometimes happened despite that).

Each year, a dozen more kobolds from the fecund Night Woods tribe are selected via a trial of champions, and each year, they make their way into the caves. By the next year, many of them are dead, but despite that, the numbers of the surviving tribute grow each year, bolstered by the kobolds beginning to breed, using the side passage of their cave as an egg hatchery, each end guarded by an array of poisonous caltrops (CR3, large monstrous scorpion venom, DC 14 Fortitude, 1d4 Con/1d4 Con).

The nascent tribe is today a dozen adult kobolds (all Warrior 1 with 4 hp, unless otherwise noted), two children and a pair of eggs that have survived the less-than-ideal conditions. The tribe is ruled by First From the Forest, a Lawful Evil male kobold fighter 4/sorcerer 1/dragon disciple 3, who is in the process of turning himself into a half-green dragon. His aide and the tribe's "high priest" is Dragon Speaker, a Lawful Evil female kobold adept 6 with a weasel familiar.

Should the kobolds hear anyone in the complex, they will sound a gong -- formerly an adventurer's steel shield -- to alert the tribe and runners will head to alert the dragons. (Negotiating the hazards between their lair and the dragons' takes some time, and is one of the largest sources of attrition amongst the kobolds.) The kobolds will then meet the intruders _en masse_, with five warriors carrying spears and a second rank carrying slings and spears, who will fire at intruders until the first rank has been cut down, and then switch to their short swords. Dragon Speaker will lend support in the form of _scorching ray, cause fear_ and _burning hands_ while First From the Forest wades in with the second rank with his breath weapon, Talon, his +1 _gnomebane_ spear (the tip of which glows with a sickly green light on command), and his masterwork sling.

First From the Forest does speak Common, however, and if confronted by a party of clear overwhelming superiority, will bargain for the life of the dragons, kobolds or himself. (When all else fails, it'll come down to saving himself.)

The kobolds have no treasure in their lair -- all treasure belongs to the dragons -- only the bare necessities for living as well as stolen or makeshift brooms and tools used for developing new traps and maintaining old ones and for keeping the complex clean.

A small barricade blocks off the entrance from the tunnel into their cave, requiring kobolds on the far side to let visitors in, or a noisy process of dismantling the debris to create a way in. The barricade provides cover for the kobolds. Except when all the adult kobolds are out dealing with intruders, two kobolds man the barricade at all hours. (If the adults are away, the child kobolds reconstruct the barricade from the inside and hide in the passage with the eggs.)

The cave below the kobolds' lair has been used to dispose of waste since First from the Forest first dumped the body of the only other kobold of his generation to survive their year as prisoners of the dragons after accompanying maiden prisoners into the cave. His fellow did not agree with First's brilliant plan to start their own tribe here in the complex, and thus had to die.


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

Whizbang: keep in mind that #4 contains either some sort of Swarm (bat swarm?) or poisonous gases from the dragon's breath weapon. Also, #12 further into the cave complex, contains a small group of stranded kobold or goblin adventurers. See the posts higher up in this thread...

Sounds like we should probably try to integrate these ideas a little better.


One other observation: it looks like this dungeon is becoming very heavy on the acid attacks. Two green dragons, a green dragon disciple, a room full of corrosive gas, and an ooze. Maybe a bit too much of a good thing?


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Whizbang: keep in mind that #4 contains either some sort of Swarm (bat swarm?) or poisonous gases from the dragon's breath weapon. Also, #12 further into the cave complex, contains a small group of stranded kobold or goblin adventurers. See the posts higher up in this thread...



I know, but I did jump in with this idea well before those posts were made. Mine's a work in progress and I'll certainly continue to adapt it to what's come later, but collaboration is a two-or-three-or-four way street.

I don't see any issue with the bats, though. A kobold's barricade is likely to be even lower than a medium-sized creature's one, and the bats would ignore all of that in favor of just flying out along the ceiling.



> One other observation: it looks like this dungeon is becoming very heavy on the acid attacks. Two green dragons, a green dragon disciple, a room full of corrosive gas, and an ooze. Maybe a bit too much of a good thing?



Eh, it's thematic. No one said it was too much of a good thing with fire or ice attacks in the Giant modules, back in the day.


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

So... your band of kobolds is dedicated to the dragons and willingly offer themselves up to be eaten, right? 

Any suggestions for why a good number of them (about CR 6-7 in total) might have set out to explore the farther reaches of the cave complex (i.e. 5-12) a few weeks ago? Apparently they got stuck in #12


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 31, 2006)

First from the Forest, who already murdered one of his compatriots just to start the tribe, could have exiled them there or tricked them there. They could have also chased some adventurers in there and are now stranded and presumed dead (or written off, despite being alive) by the tribe.


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## Raven Crowking (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Some more items for clarification...
> 
> Did you intend the water to flow in from the far waterfall, and flow out through the underwater tunnel to #10? If so, that's opposite to the direction implied by the water levels in #8-#10-#6. Or do you mean there's two inflows into #8: the waterfall in the far corner, and the tunnel from #10? In that case, we also need an outflow channel for the water...




Dang it.  I _*asked*_ about the water flow to ensure that I had it right.  I'll fix it.



> Keep in mind there's a *Large* dragon housed in this cave complex. If the passage from 2a to 6 is a "tight squeeze" requiring an Escape Artist check for a Medium creature, it should be impassable for a Large creature. Which way did you intend the dragon to enter and leave the cave complex? Or did I misinterpret something here?...




Look at the map.  You'll note a bit of an alcove at the top of the map where the slope starts that leads to Area 6.  That is the area initially described, a seperate node before starting down the slope.

RC


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## der_kluge (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Some more items for clarification...
> 
> Did you intend the water to flow in from the far waterfall, and flow out through the underwater tunnel to #10? If so, that's opposite to the direction implied by the water levels in #8-#10-#6. Or do you mean there's two inflows into #8: the waterfall in the far corner, and the tunnel from #10? In that case, we also need an outflow channel for the water...




I just added a waterfall for added effect. The water flows from 6 to 10 to 8.

The outflow could just be any number of small underground streams that have bored through the shale over time, and are far too small to swim through.


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## der_kluge (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> I was just thinking that it may make more sense if these two rooms were swapped. #11 is awfully far from where the dragons reside, for gas to accumulate there. Area 4 might be a better place for that - it's even deepr than #11, and it's al downhill from 2a to there (compared to #11 which is located after a significant rise in #5). (Also, the "pool" in #12 may or may not wind up being an actual pool...)
> 
> What do you say - makes sense?





Area 11 could be the dragon's toilet.  If a dragon's breath is bad, imagine what their crap must stink like.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 31, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Area 11 could be the dragon's toilet.  If a dragon's breath is bad, imagine what their crap must stink like.



So many scary images and follow-on thoughts from there ...

/shudder


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## Raven Crowking (May 31, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Area 11 could be the dragon's toilet.  If a dragon's breath is bad, imagine what their crap must stink like.




Otyugh.

Rot grubs (Tome of Horrors, OGL compliant)


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (May 31, 2006)

Man, I miss rot grubs.


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Area 11 could be the dragon's toilet.  If a dragon's breath is bad, imagine what their crap must stink like.



For the truly dedicated explorer... dragon poop also contains all the magic items, gold and gems of earlier adventureers that were swallowed whole.


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Dang it.  I _*asked*_ about the water flow to ensure that I had it right.  I'll fix it.



False alarm - the stream does indeed flow 6->10->8. There's just a second inflow into #8 as well.



> Look at the map.  You'll note a bit of an alcove at the top of the map where the slope starts that leads to Area 6.  That is the area initially described, a seperate node before starting down the slope.



Ah! That makes more sense. This wasn't entirely clear from the description. I thought the "alcove to your left" referred to the left branch of the corridor from #2a - i.e. first it looks only like an alcove, but you can worm your way in there, and then it becomes a passage that slopes away steeply into darkness...

May want to rephrase to clear that up. I do love the image, now that I've gotten it all straightened out in my head.


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## Tonguez (May 31, 2006)

I think this cave has too many combat elements and we need to include a puzzle somewhere. 

I'm willing to put one in at Cavern 5 but currently can't think of one to fit - any ideas?

_The verminevines can go if need be (though I'd still want to see the insect swarms used - perhaps they attack if the puzzle isn't solved.)_


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## Tonguez (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> For the truly dedicated explorer... dragon poop also contains all the magic items, gold and gems of earlier adventureers that were swallowed whole.




And dragon poop diving really helps you to appreciate the bauty of Acid resistance


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> I think this cave has too many combat elements and we need to include a puzzle somewhere.
> 
> I'm willing to put one in at Cavern 5 but currently can't think of one to fit - any ideas?



Hmm... I guess we could put a gate somewhere, but that would change the nature of this cave complex significantly. And you'd have to make sure it doesn't interfere with the ideas planned for the rooms behind that gate.

Alternatively, I guess we could be cheesy and put in a sphinx or some other riddlemaster...

Instead of a puzzle, maybe more traps and/or natural hazards? A cave-in or rapidly changing water levels perhaps?

Maybe area 5 is filled with crystalline, narrowly spaced columns - eerily beautiful, but dangerous to navigate if you are Medium size or larger. Break too many of them, and the roof collapses...

Or maybe the pool in #12 is really a hot spring. Every now and then, it erupts and fills all of #12 up to the higher platform with boiling water, which then drains off into #11.


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## Raven Crowking (May 31, 2006)

That's sort of why I did my area without any additional creatures.


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## Raven Crowking (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> False alarm - the stream does indeed flow 6->10->8. There's just a second inflow into #8 as well.




&*^^%^$!!      I already went back and "fixed" this, including a new feature that I quite like.



> Ah! That makes more sense. This wasn't entirely clear from the description. I thought the "alcove to your left" referred to the left branch of the corridor from #2a - i.e. first it looks only like an alcove, but you can worm your way in there, and then it becomes a passage that slopes away steeply into darkness...
> 
> May want to rephrase to clear that up. I do love the image, now that I've gotten it all straightened out in my head.




Mark the alcove "A" and it can be referenced as such in the DM text.

As far as the combat encounters go, please remember that this is a natural cave complex.  As a result, there can only be so many unnatural features it holds.  The painting bridge over the chasm is a good one, indicating a one-time use of the cave.  Any future "trick" (as opposed to a natural hazard) ought to echo that encounter.

In other words, perhaps the final cave of the non-dragon fork is whatever the people who made the bridge used this cave for?  A temple....even some form of mystic art school?  It could grant bonus ranks somehow to Profession (Artist) skill checks.......


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## der_kluge (May 31, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> I think this cave has too many combat elements and we need to include a puzzle somewhere.
> 
> I'm willing to put one in at Cavern 5 but currently can't think of one to fit - any ideas?
> 
> _The verminevines can go if need be (though I'd still want to see the insect swarms used - perhaps they attack if the puzzle isn't solved.)_





We could put something in room 9.


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## Conaill (May 31, 2006)

More details...


			
				Scribble said:
			
		

> Room 2:
> 
> *An Occurrence at Dragon Creek bridge...*
> Characters can attempt to make a Craft, Paint (DC 10) check in order to finish the bridge. [...] The scene can be painted again, causing the bridge to appear again, but there is only enough paint for three tries.



You may want to add a second DC for "finger painting" - not sure the PCs will actually find the body with the paint brushes.

What does the painting look like after the bridge disappears again? Does it go back to the original unfinished painting? Is the body down the chasm that of the person who originally made the painting, or just someone who didn't cross the bridge in time?



> The bottom of the chasm contains a gate to room 10. It is built directly into the floor, and not visible from above. (It appears as natural rock.) Leaping from a certain point on the cliff (DM discretion) will send a character through the gate and onto the island in room 10. The character, unless possessing some means of slowing his/her descent will still take full falling damage as if falling the whole 400 feet.



Is this a two-way gate, do the dragons know about it, is it big enough for them to pass through from #10, and is the chasm large enough for the dragons to fly up?

Also, a bit more background on this gate might be useful. It seems rather random...


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## der_kluge (May 31, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Is this a two-way gate, do the dragons know about it, is it big enough for them to pass through from #10, and is the chasm large enough for the dragons to fly up?
> 
> Also, a bit more background on this gate might be useful. It seems rather random...




I'm not completely sold on the gate myself. I think a more mundane sort of addition might be warranted here. Not everyone has such willy-nilly use of gates in their world. It could be just a very deep chasm. Maybe it leads to another cave system, or maybe it goes nowhere, but instead is home to a bunch of spiders with webs. Maybe if someone falls they don't immediately die, but instead get trapped in webs. I'd rather see something like that, personally.


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## Conaill (Jun 1, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I'm not completely sold on the gate myself. I think a more mundane sort of addition might be warranted here. Not everyone has such willy-nilly use of gates in their world. It could be just a very deep chasm. Maybe it leads to another cave system, or maybe it goes nowhere, but instead is home to a bunch of spiders with webs. Maybe if someone falls they don't immediately die, but instead get trapped in webs. I'd rather see something like that, personally.



Another suggestion I made earlier was that perhaps the same underground river which flows from #6 to #10 to #8 eventually winds up at the bottom of the chasm. You could even have a navigable passage from #8 down to the bottom of the chasm. Given the drop in height, it's probably a one-way passage though...


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## Tonguez (Jun 1, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Hmm... I guess we could put a gate somewhere, but that would change the nature of this cave complex significantly. And you'd have to make sure it doesn't interfere with the ideas planned for the rooms behind that gate.
> 
> Alternatively, I guess we could be cheesy and put in a sphinx or some other riddlemaster...
> 
> ...




Yeah I  put a tentative cave-in at Cavern 5. I like the crystal columns idea so will edit to include that too (what skill do you use for darting around columns? - escape artist? Reflex?) 

The Hot spring at 12 helps expalin all the acid too


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## der_kluge (Jun 1, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Another suggestion I made earlier was that perhaps the same underground river which flows from #6 to #10 to #8 eventually winds up at the bottom of the chasm. You could even have a navigable passage from #8 down to the bottom of the chasm. Given the drop in height, it's probably a one-way passage though...





Do we want to get all crazy and add in a sub-level of submerged water that's accessible via that chasm? 

Sounds like a cool premise for Collaborative Cave #2.


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## Conaill (Jun 1, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Yeah I  put a tentative cave-in at Cavern 5. I like the crystal columns idea so will edit to include that too (what skill do you use for darting around columns? - escape artist? Reflex?)





			
				SRD said:
			
		

> To squeeze through or into a space less than half your space’s width, you must use the Escape Artist skill. You can’t attack while using Escape Artist to squeeze through or into a narrow space, you take a -4 penalty to AC, and you lose any Dexterity bonus to AC.
> 
> 
> *Tight Space*: Escape Artist DC 30
> ...



Any Small PCs would be able to move through the columns at 1/2 move. Medium or Larger creatures are going to have a hard time, unless they dumped a lot of points into Escape Artist.

Here's an idea: The columns are under pressure, because they're essentially holding up a weak ceiling. Breaking a column sends shards flying, doing some amount of piercing damage (even a badly failed Escape Artist check could cause this). After the first shattered column, I would have the ceiling groan and a second column shatter because of the shift in weight. That should give the players plenty of warning what might happen. After that, roll a d20 modified by the number of shattered columns to see if they collapse the whole thing. Stonecunning, Knowledge(Engineering), spells or bracing can all help to keep the ceiling from coming down. Or they could decide to trigger the collapse from a distance and dig through afterwards...


Hmm... This _does_ interfere with tying room #12 into the "painted bridge" theme from #2 though...


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## Tonguez (Jun 1, 2006)

I like that DC 30! should be fun mwahahaha

If the columns are natural #2 and #12 can still be linked - kobolds are small enough to get through and the crystals may have had significance to the 'painters'.

There is also a ledge/upper level-platform in 12 that might be some kind of link too


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## Conaill (Jun 1, 2006)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> If the columns are natural #2 and #12 can still be linked - kobolds are small enough to get through and the crystals may have had significance to the 'painters'.



Just wondering how the painters got through - unless they were Small sized as well, of course...


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## Raven Crowking (Jun 1, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Do we want to get all crazy and add in a sub-level of submerged water that's accessible via that chasm?
> 
> Sounds like a cool premise for Collaborative Cave #2.





I very much doubt that anyone will actually explore such a sub-level.  I think we say "DM's discretion" and let it fuel the imagination of (or be ignored by) whosoever uses our work.


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## der_kluge (Jun 1, 2006)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> I very much doubt that anyone will actually explore such a sub-level.  I think we say "DM's discretion" and let it fuel the imagination of (or be ignored by) whosoever uses our work.





I'd love to do an underwater cavern. It would make a great high level dungeon. Like I said - maybe a #2.


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## Raven Crowking (Jun 1, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I'd love to do an underwater cavern. It would make a great high level dungeon. Like I said - maybe a #2.





Okay, but it would be deadly with a capital DEAD.    

One aquatic spellcaster with _dispel magic_ deep in the cave.....


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## Abe.ebA (Jun 2, 2006)

If I might offer a suggestion to both take care of the difficulty linking the bridge builders to room 12 and getting PCs to explore a potential underwater sub-cave:

In room 12 (with whatever ancient leftovers) place a shaft with worked ladder rungs leading straight down.  A large piece of carved rune-script has been reduced to only a few legible phrases by time and corrosion, something about 'holy crystals' and maybe a phrase foreshadowing a main leftover baddy or a potential treasure for the sub-cave.  Twenty feet further down the shaft the ladder ends just below a heavily dust-covered, stagnant water surface.  The ancients used room 12 (whatever it ends up being) as a worship place to observe the crystalline growths back before the ceiling was unstable.  Their main lair/home/temple was in the caverns below and the bridge was a first foray into engineering the caves above.  Presumably they were a deep-dwelling race, or the lower caverns have an exit elsewhere on the surface world.


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## Conaill (Jun 2, 2006)

Eh... I'd rather not build in an underwater sub-cave. Any DM worth his salt can connect this cave complex with a lower one if he wants to. But we probably shouldn't _hardwire_ that into this one.

Another option is simply that the part of #5 that used to be wide enough for the medium sized "painters" to pass (maybe the area just below and to the right of the number 5) caved in long ago, leaving only the forest of crystalline columns as a passage.


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## der_kluge (Jun 5, 2006)

Just a little bump to let everyone know that rooms 9 and 12 are still unassigned. I was out of pocket most of the weekend...

I may end up taking room 9 if no one else wants. I just don't want to hog most of the dungeon.


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## Conaill (Jun 5, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Just a little bump to let everyone know that rooms 9 and 12 are still unassigned. I was out of pocket most of the weekend...



Actually, I claimed #12 back in post #133. I'm just waiting until 3, 5, and 11 are a bit better fleshed out before I nail down the details.


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## Ilium (Jun 5, 2006)

So am I on 11 now, or still 4.  Have we officially traded?

Sorry for my slow response.  I've been insanely busy.


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## der_kluge (Jun 5, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Actually, I claimed #12 back in post #133. I'm just waiting until 3, 5, and 11 are a bit better fleshed out before I nail down the details.




Oh, I guess I missed that. I'll assign you to 12.


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## der_kluge (Jun 5, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> So am I on 11 now, or still 4.  Have we officially traded?
> 
> Sorry for my slow response.  I've been insanely busy.





If you guys want to swap, let me know, and I'll update the main page.


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## Conaill (Jun 5, 2006)

Roger said:
			
		

> Conaill said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Ilium - seems like you get to cast the deciding vote, if you wish to swap...


For #11, I think both the accumulating dragon gases, and the bit about the dragon occasionally having prisoners thrown in there, both seem to make this encounter more suitable for room #4. Especially if Tonguez were to decide to make #5 impassible for anything larger than Small creatures, as discussed above. 

Ilium's proposal for #4 would fit just as well in #11. Maybe #11 is where the ooze in #12 originally came from, before trapping that band of explorers. (I'm still mulling over the geyser idea for #12, but so far I like the trapped explorers angle a lot better.)


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## Conaill (Jun 5, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Tonguez said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I don't think Verminvines are OGL-compliant. Seems to be either an online bonus critter, or one extracted from one of the supplemental books. Either way, it wouldn't be covered under the OGL.

der_kluge - I assume anything non-OGL woudl be off-limits if we actually try and publish this?


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## der_kluge (Jun 6, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> I don't think Verminvines are OGL-compliant. Seems to be either an online bonus critter, or one extracted from one of the supplemental books. Either way, it wouldn't be covered under the OGL.
> 
> der_kluge - I assume anything non-OGL woudl be off-limits if we actually try and publish this?





Right. Plus, it just means people have to add in more sources of information if they want to fully understand the things we're putting in there.


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## Raven Crowking (Jun 6, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Just a little bump to let everyone know that rooms 9 and 12 are still unassigned. I was out of pocket most of the weekend...
> 
> I may end up taking room 9 if no one else wants. I just don't want to hog most of the dungeon.





Room 9 is going to be the dragons' treasure hoard, right?  I am notoriously stingy.    

OTOH, if someone was willing to itemize the hoard, I'd be more than willing to write the description.


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## Conaill (Jun 6, 2006)

Hm... thinking of dragon hoards...

With all the acid in this dungeon, it seems likely the hoard will be largely gold, platinum, gems, and some magic items. Most mundane goods not made out of precious metals have probably been corroded away.


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## der_kluge (Jun 7, 2006)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> Room 9 is going to be the dragons' treasure hoard, right?  I am notoriously stingy.
> 
> OTOH, if someone was willing to itemize the hoard, I'd be more than willing to write the description.





I've already listed out what is in the dragon's hoard in the room description for room #8.


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## der_kluge (Jun 8, 2006)

*Room #9. Forgotten Treasure  (EL 10)*



> The wall spins open on its axis to reveal a natural staircase that climbs gently upward. Moving cautiously into the room you hear something lumbering down the stairs slowly towards you, making no attempt at being quiet.




Note that this room is under the effects of a permanent _nondetection_.

This room contains a clay golem. The golem was created to guard this chamber hundreds of years ago, and has remained vigilant ever since. It was created as a guardian to protect a treasure - a Princess from a nearby land, who is currently imprisoned in _temporal stasis_ in a _Bag of Holding_ at the top of the chamber. 

The golem will attack anyone entering area 9, but will never leave area 9, and never moves beyond the secret door to his lair. The dragons discovered the golem years ago, but quickly discovered that they were no match for it. Not only that, what little damage they managed to deliver to the creature, was quickly eliminated when they breathed acid on it, healing it back to full and then some. 

*Clay Golem*
*Size/Type:*  	Large Construct
*Hit Dice:* 	11d10+30 (90 hp)
*Initiative:* 	-1
*Speed:* 	20 ft. (4 squares)
*Armor Class:* 	22 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +14 natural), touch 8, flat-footed 22
*Base Attack/Grapple:* 	+8/+19
*Attack:* 	Slam +14 melee (2d10+7 plus cursed wound)
*Full Attack: *	2 slams +14 melee (2d10+7 plus cursed wound)
*Space/Reach:* 	10 ft./10 ft.
*Special Attacks:* 	Berserk, cursed wound
*Special Qualities: *	Construct traits, damage reduction 10/adamantine and bludgeoning, darkvision 60 ft., haste, immunity to magic, low-light vision
*Saves:* 	Fort +3, Ref +2, Will +3
*Abilities:* 	Str 25, Dex 9, Con Ø, Int Ø, Wis 11, Cha 1
Alignment:[/b] 	Neutral

This golem has a humanoid body made from clay. It is essentially a featureless humanoid shaped blob lacking any real distinct features. It looks as if it was made by either an amateur, or was done in haste.

A clay golem golem cannot speak or make any vocal noise. It walks and moves with a slow, clumsy gait. It weighs around 600 pounds.

*Combat* The Clay golem will viciously, and mindlessly attack anyone entering his secret chamber. The golem will continue attacking the first target it spots until either it or the target is destroyed. 

*Berserk (Ex):* When a clay golem enters combat, there is a cumulative 1% chance each round that its elemental spirit breaks free and the golem goes berserk. The uncontrolled golem goes on a rampage, attacking the nearest living creature or smashing some object smaller than itself if no creature is within reach, then moving on to spread more destruction. Once a clay golem goes berserk, no known method can reestablish control.

*Cursed Wound (Ex):* The damage a clay golem deals doesn’t heal naturally and resists healing spells. A character attempting to cast a conjuration (healing) spell on a creature damaged by a clay golem must succeed on a DC 26 caster level check, or the spell has no effect on the injured character.

*Immunity to Magic (Ex):* A clay golem is immune to any spell or spell-like ability that allows spell resistance. In addition, certain spells and effects function differently against the creature, as noted below.

A move earth spell drives the golem back 120 feet and deals 3d12 points of damage to it.

A disintegrate spell slows the golem (as the slow spell) for 1d6 rounds and deals 1d12 points of damage.

An earthquake spell cast directly at a clay golem stops it from moving on its next turn and deals 5d10 points of damage. The golem gets no saving throw against any of these effects.

Any magical attack against a clay golem that deals acid damage heals 1 point of damage for every 3 points of damage it would otherwise deal. If the amount of healing would cause the golem to exceed its full normal hit points, it gains any excess as temporary hit points. For example, a clay golem hit by the breath weapon of a black dragon heals 7 points of damage if the attack would have dealt 22 points of damage. A clay golem golem gets no saving throw against magical attacks that deal acid damage.

*Haste (Su)*: After it has engaged in at least 1 round of combat, a clay golem can haste itself once per day as a free action. The effect lasts 3 rounds and is otherwise the same as the spell. 


At the top of this chamber lies a small plain cloth bag on the floor. This is a Type I _Bag of Holding_. Inside this bag is a young female dressed in a rather revealing blue silk negligé. This is Princess Alaria. She is a very attractive, 19 year old princess from a nearby land from 875 years ago. Her family was at war with a neighboring kingdom, and assassins from the warring kingdom made their way into her bedroom in the middle of the night, where they cast a _temporal stasis_ on her as she slept. There, they stowed her in a _Bag of Holding_, and escaped into the darkness. They left her in this chamber, crafted a crude secret door, and hastily created a Clay Golem guardian. Wizards then placed a _permanent_ _nondetection_ into the chamber to prevent any _scrying_ attempts. The Kingdom who captured her intended to ransom her to their enemies for her safe return, but Alaria's father, King Reginald flew into such a rage, that he ordered a full out assault on the neighboring kingdom and killed everyone in that kingdom. Unfortunately, the assault was so brutal and swift that those who actually knew where Alaria was, were destroyed in the initial attack. Reginald spent his remaining years scouring the countryside searching for his beloved daughter. He was eventually eaten by an ancient Black dragon some 30 years after her capture.


*Princess Alaria
Female Human Ari2/Wiz4/Clr2 *
*CR:* 7; *HP:* 39 (2d8+4d4+2d8+8); *AC:* 13 (+3 Dex; 13 Touch); *BAB:* +3 (+4, -1 Str)
*Movement:* 30'; *Init:* +2 (+2 Dex)
*Saves:* Fort +5 (+4 +1 Con), Ref +3 (+1 +2 Dex), Will +13 (+10 +3 Wis)
*Str* 9, *Dex* 15, *Con* 12, *Int* 17, *Wis* 16, *Cha* 17; *AL:* LG

*Skills:*
*Concentration +11* (+10 ranks, +1 Con),
*Diplomacy +15* (+8 ranks, +2 Negotiator, +2 Synergy, +3 Cha),
*Gather Information +7* (+4 ranks, +3 Cha),
*Handle Animal +7* (+4 ranks, +3 Cha),
*Knowledge (Heraldry) +11* (+8 ranks, +3 Int),
*Knowledge (Nobility) +13* (+10 ranks, +3 Int),
*Knowledge (History) +13* (+10 ranks, +3 Int),
*Ride +8* (+4 Ranks, +2 Synergy, +2 Dex),
*Sense Motive +10* (+5 ranks, +2 Negotiator, +3 Wis),
*Spellcraft +13* (+10 ranks, +3 Int)

*Feats:* Leadership, Negotiator, Spell Focus (Enchantment), Weapon Finesse (light mace)

*Special Abilities:* Scribe Scroll, Summon Familiar, Turn Undead
*Languges Spoken:* Common, Elven, Draconic, Celestial
*Clerical Spells per Day:* 0: 4, 1st: 3+1
*Clerical spells prepared:* None
*Domains:* Knowledge, Protection
*Wizard Spells per Day:* 0: 4, 1st: 4, 2nd: 3
*Wizards spells prepared:* 0: Daze, Dancing Lights, Detect Magic, Read Magic; 1st: Charm Person (x2), Unseen Servant, -empty-; 2nd: Invisibility, Touch of Idiocy, -empty-

*Possessions:* Alaria only possesses that which she was wearing in her sleep - a full length silk negligé. 

Alaria has no familiar. Her former familiar (a cat named Tigress) died long ago. Assign Alaria a deity appropriate to your world. Because Alaria was captured in her sleep, she had not prepared her spells for the following day, and thus has no divine spells prepared.

PCs can recognize Alaria's condition with a DC 20 Spellcraft check. A _dispel magic_ or _freedom_ spell can remove Alaria from her condition - who will immediately awake from a calm peaceful sleep, not knowing that she's 875 years removed from her deceased family.

*Note: *Feel free to tailor Alaria specific to your campaign setting. She could also be a way to introduce a new NPC or even a new PC into your group. Alaria will be immediately terrified of her surroundings, and infinitely scared and horrified once she eventually learns of her present state. Sages (DC 25 Knowledge (History)) will know of the tragedy that is her past.


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## blargney the second (Jun 8, 2006)

I like the princess as treasure.


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## der_kluge (Jun 9, 2006)

Thanks!  

I finished updating it. 

Let me know if anyone sees anything wrong with it. The Princess was a tad on the complex side, so I might have missed something.


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## Conaill (Jun 9, 2006)

blargney the second said:
			
		

> I like the princess as treasure.



Ditto! 

"WTF - what are we gonna do with her? Can't eat her, can't sell... Hey guys, I have an idea!"


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## der_kluge (Jun 9, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Ditto!
> 
> "WTF - what are we gonna do with her? Can't eat her, can't sell... Hey guys, I have an idea!"





Except that you can't harm or modify said individual under the effects of the stasis.   Nice try.


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## Conaill (Jun 9, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Except that you can't harm or modify said individual under the effects of the stasis.   Nice try.



Doesn't mean you can't sell her off to the highest bidder. I'm not sure how much you can have your way with someone who is in temporal stasis, but I bet you can at least undress her and put her on display in your bed chamber!    

Hey, it's not as if she's gonna *remember* any of this, right?


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## Conaill (Jun 9, 2006)

Man, wouldn't that make for a great start of a campaign?

"Last thing you remember, Evillord the Cruel was casting a spell at you and you felt time coming to a standstill. Next thing you know - you are naked, and a kindly priest has just released you from your stasis and told you that 1000 years have passed. Three other naked bodies lie on biers next to you, in rigidly frozen poses. You feel somehow... sticky... all over."


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## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2006)

Any other updates?  I've done three rooms, and some of you still have yet to finish your first!  Come on!


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## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2006)

With the golem's damage not being able to be healed, and given that the dragon's breathe acid - which would heal any damage it would have done, I suspect that unless there is a healer in this cave, the dragon (at least the older one) would still bear scars from that battle to this day, since that damage doesn't heal naturally.

Was someone putting a shaman in here somewhere?


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## Shieldhaven (Jun 11, 2006)

I've been wicked busy for the past two weeks.  My wicked busy should come to a merciful end in the next 2-3 days, absolute tops.  I promise.

Haven


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## Conaill (Jun 11, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> With the golem's damage not being able to be healed, and given that the dragon's breathe acid - which would heal any damage it would have done, I suspect that unless there is a healer in this cave, the dragon (at least the older one) would still bear scars from that battle to this day, since that damage doesn't heal naturally.
> 
> Was someone putting a shaman in here somewhere?



There's "Dragon Speaker", a female kobold adept6 in room #3. _Just_ high enough to make that DC 26 caster level check... after a lot of trying...


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## Roger (Jun 12, 2006)

Did that playtest of this dungeon happen yet?


Cheers,
Roger


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jun 12, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> There's "Dragon Speaker", a female kobold adept6 in room #3. _Just_ high enough to make that DC 26 caster level check... after a lot of trying...



I can give her an appropriate feat to help out with this as well.


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## der_kluge (Jun 13, 2006)

Roger said:
			
		

> Did that playtest of this dungeon happen yet?





No, my players opted to play the regular campaign instead. I might try to take it a FLGS and play it there.  I've got plenty of time on my hands to do that. I'll probably wait until it's all finished, though.


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## der_kluge (Jun 18, 2006)

Sure would be nice if we could finish this dungeon. I'd like to playtest it one of these days.

I even started working on the second cave - an abandoned dwarven mine, complete with mine cart tracks. I've not finished it yet, but it'll end up being enourmous. I may decide I don't like it, though. I'll just have to see when I get it finished. It's... complicated.

So, here's a little bumpage for those who have not yet finished your room...

I'm still not sold on that Choker.. I'm having some heartburn over its ability to cast two spells a round. I think I'd prefer him to be a few CRs lower, just to keep the overall dungeon in check, power-level wise.


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## the_dwarf_is_drunk55 (Jun 18, 2006)

*rp*

how about we test the map in a roleplaying session to test out a storyline and see if its good


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## the_dwarf_is_drunk55 (Jun 18, 2006)

*cmon*

cmon guys


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## the_dwarf_is_drunk55 (Jun 18, 2006)

*very,nice*

still its a very handsome map


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## der_kluge (Jun 18, 2006)

the_dwarf_is_drunk55 said:
			
		

> how about we test the map in a roleplaying session to test out a storyline and see if its good





You mean like a PbP session, or something like that?


----------



## Conaill (Jun 19, 2006)

Sorry, been very busy at work...

*Room #12. Trapped by a puddle (EL - 9?)*

A band of goblins stumbled into this room three weeks ago, hunting for treasure, only to find their way out cut off by a Watery Ooze that had crept out of the depths behind them. After losing a couple of band members to the ooze, they figured out that if they stayed far enough back on the platform in the rear of the cave, the ooze coudn't sense them. They've been stuck there for weeks now, living off the occasional party member, waiting for the ooze to go back to where it came from elsewhere in the cave complex.

The ooze will wait until the PCs are alongside the pool to attack. The goblins intend to wait until the ooze attacks them, then try slip out along the other side of the pool - (probably putting them in conflict with the PCs rearguard).

Add in one young but smart goblin who wants to join forces with the PC's rather than simply feed them to the ooze as bait. (He was probably next on the menu if the goblins didn't get of out there soon...)

------ _under construction_ ------

*Watery Ooze*
*Size/Type:*  	Huge Ooze
*Hit Dice:* 	10d10+60 (115 hp)
*Initiative:* 	-5
*Speed:* 	20 ft. (4 squares)
*Armor Class:* 	3 (–2 size, –5 Dex), touch 3, flat-footed 3
*Base Attack/Grapple:* 	+7/+18
*Attack:* 	Slam +8 melee (2d6+4 plus 2d6 acid)
*Full Attack: *	Slam +8 melee (2d6+4 plus 2d6 acid)
*Space/Reach:* 	15 ft./10 ft.
*Special Attacks:* 	Acid, constrict 2d6+4 plus 2d6 acid, improved grab, watery
*Special Qualities: *	Blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits
*Saves:* 	Fort +9, Ref –2, Will –2
*Abilities:* 	Str 17, Dex 1, Con 22, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
*Skills:* —
*Feats:* — 
*Environment:* Underground 
*Organization:* Solitary 
*Challenge Rating:* 7 
*Treasure:* None
*Alignment:* 	Neutral

The transparent watery ooze slowly flows across dungeon corridors and cave floors, resting in shallow depressions, or hiding in pools, where it 
is virtually invisible.

A watery ooze is completely shapeable, taking up nine contiguous squares. It is up to several inches thick, and weighs about 2,000 pounds.

*Combat*

A watery ooze attacks by grabbing and squeezing their prey.

*Acid (Ex):* The creature secretes a digestive acid that dissolves organic material and metal quickly, but does not affect stone. Any melee hit or constrict attack deals acid damage, and the opponent’s armor and clothing dissolve and become useless immediately unless they succeed on DC 21 Reflex saves. A metal or wooden weapon that strikes a watery ooze also dissolves immediately unless it succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. The save DCs are Constitution-based.

The ooze’s acidic touch deals 21 points of damage per round to wooden or metal objects, but it must remain in contact with the object for 1 full round to deal this damage.

*Constrict (Ex):* A watery ooze deals automatic slam and acid damage with a successful grapple check. The opponent’s clothing and armor take a –4 penalty on Reflex saves against the acid.

*Improved Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, a watery ooze must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

*Watery (Ex):* A watery Ooze resembles a puddle of water so closely that it takes a DC 15 Spot check to notice one. When inside a body of water, it counts as invisible.


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## der_kluge (Jun 26, 2006)

Conail, I added your entry to the first post. I made it EL 7. I wouldn't count the goblins (assuming they are just normal goblins). They wouldn't really increase the EL, I wouldn't think. Especially since they aren't meaning to attack, anyway.

It does beg the question as to how goblins got in here, though...


That leaves rooms 3, 4 and 10.  

Room 3 - Whizbang Dustyboots.
Room 4 - Ilium.
Room 10 - Shieldhaven.

Come on guys!  Don't make me stat out your rooms!


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## Elephant (Jun 26, 2006)

I've updated the Choker's stats to make him a little bit less nasty.  This time, I counted Sor levels as "associated" class levels (because of the strength of the Quickness ability) and added an extra +2 CR modifier for the extremely strong Quickness + spells combination.

I also made some notes on simple ways to reduce the challenge of the encounter.  It should be a hard but winnable fight for an 8th level party.

...I hope.


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## Conaill (Jun 26, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Conail, I added your entry to the first post. I made it EL 7. I wouldn't count the goblins (assuming they are just normal goblins). They wouldn't really increase the EL, I wouldn't think. Especially since they aren't meaning to attack, anyway.



Actually, I'm aiming for EL 7-9. The goblins will attempt to fight their way out if need be - which will probably mean they get to melee with the PCs rearguard (i.e. hopefully their spellcasters ). 

Sure, the PCs could just let the goblins pass by, but most groups I've played with would misinterpret their actions as a flanking attack, and engage combat. Serves them right .

I'm aiming for EL 6.5 or so for the goblins by themselves: high enough to affect the overal EL of the encounter, but not so high that they could have easily taken the ooze on themselves. I'll post more details when I get another chunk of time...


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## der_kluge (Jun 27, 2006)

I may be unable to post to ENWorld for a while. I can't access ENWorld from work, and my roommate's is dropping his internet access (and I use his computer). Plus, I'm moving to a different place this weekend, so after this weekend, my access will be a bit sketchy. 

So, you won't have me to poke this little project with a stick from time to time.  At least for a while.


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## der_kluge (Jul 1, 2006)

Just a friendly pop in to see if anyone has any updates to their rooms. I'll finish them myself eventually if the assigned people don't...


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## Elephant (Jul 13, 2006)

*bump*  Have the missing people abandoned their rooms?


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 13, 2006)

Nope, just been overwhelmed at work and with home stuff. Will stat out the kobolds in the next few days.


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## der_kluge (Aug 16, 2006)

Ok, I'm back... 

I'll finish up these last few remaining rooms in the next day or two, unless the original owners do.


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## Raven Crowking (Aug 16, 2006)

I don't even remember what rooms are left.  Need any help?  You can assign me another room.

RC


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## der_kluge (Aug 16, 2006)

Raven Crowking said:
			
		

> I don't even remember what rooms are left.  Need any help?  You can assign me another room.
> 
> RC




Check post #1. There are a few rooms still left. I'll need to go through the thread to figure out exactly what's left.


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## der_kluge (Aug 17, 2006)

Ok, I've updated the main page with links to rooms 3 and 4.

comments: 

Room #2 (Scribble) - let's lose the "gate" at the bottom of the chasm. I'd rather see something more "mundane" down there.  Maybe spiders, treasure, skeletons, or an entrance into an entirely different dungeon.

Room #2a (Elephant) - I'm a little confused regarding the "upper passageway" that this room describes for the eastern tunnel. Can you elaborate on that?

Room #3 (Whizbang Dustyboots) - We need stats for First From the Forest, and Dragon Speaker, as well as regular Kobold stats. Also, we might want to rethink the idea of them sending a warning party to the dragons, since if the kobolds here hear the PCs coming, they are likely going to run right past them on the way to warning the dragons. So, it seems likely that that isn't really an option, given their location.

Room #4 (Ilium) - I'm not sure I understand the point of this. I think this description is supposed to be a stub. Room 3 describes this area as a home for waste ("The cave below the kobolds' lair has been used to dispose of waste"), but here we're describing a way to ascend and descend the staircase, and a rope leading up to the ledge, which if one falls, causes no damage. Nowhere is there an actual description of the contents of this room. 

Room #5 (Tonguez) - We can't use VerminVine - it's not OGL compatible. 

Room #7 (Elephant) - Let's lower Ghzzdit's CR to something more like 6/7. At EL 11, he's as hard as the dragon's lair.

Room #10 (Shieldhaven) - This room isn't detailed anywhere. Shieldhaven, if you want to finish it, please do so. Otherwise, it's open for anyone to flesh out.

Room #11 (Roger) - I think I'm in favor of swapping this room with room #4. I think more than one shadow might be nice, too, since all of the greater shadow's victims would now also be shadows. They could be lesser shadows (less than the PHB standard), and would make for a very interesting, difficult encounter.

Room #12 (Conail) - We need to replace "goblin" with "Kobold" here. It would be nice if the kobolds had some means of enticing the PCs to save them. Otherwise, I could see most parties just leaving the kobolds to their fate if they find out there's a water ooze, and no reason to bypass it themselves. Maybe one of the kobolds has a magic ring, or something that he can offer up as payment for their rescue?


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## Conaill (Aug 17, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Room #12 (Conail) - We need to replace "goblin" with "Kobold" here. It would be nice if the kobolds had some means of enticing the PCs to save them. Otherwise, I could see most parties just leaving the kobolds to their fate if they find out there's a water ooze, and no reason to bypass it themselves. Maybe one of the kobolds has a magic ring, or something that he can offer up as payment for their rescue?



Sorry for the absence...

The idea was that the party of gobolds/koblins in #12 had been stuck there for several weeks - long enough for the top dogs in the party to start using the other party members as rations, untill only one "underdog" remained (the one who may want to help out the PC's, rather than feed them to the ooze).

For these guys to be stuck here for this long, it seems illogical for them to be within shouting distance of the kobolds in #3, which is why I wanted them to be unrelated to those guys. Hence a goblin party which managed to sneak (or fight their way) past the kobolds. If we make them a breakaway group of kobolds, with good reason to expect nothing but hostility from the kobolds in #3, that would work too.

As for the PCs needing a reason to go into #12... since when have adventurers needed a reason to explore dangerous caves?  The ooze is well enough hidden (counts as invisible inside the shallow pool of water) that they probably won't notice it until it's too late to avoid. I figure #12 may also be the reason why the "painter" people in #2 worshiped this cave complex - maybe the inside is full of paintings. That should be good enough to lure a band of unsuspecting adventurers past an innocent-looking pool of water. 

If the PCs do notice the ooze in advance and decide to leave #12 alone, _then_ the trapped koblins could come out of hiding and offer the PCs riches beyond their wildest dreams - lies, of course, since the koblins intend to escape as soon as the PCs are in combat with the ooze.

Makes sense?


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## Ilium (Aug 17, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Room #4 (Ilium) - I'm not sure I understand the point of this. I think this description is supposed to be a stub. Room 3 describes this area as a home for waste ("The cave below the kobolds' lair has been used to dispose of waste"), but here we're describing a way to ascend and descend the staircase, and a rope leading up to the ledge, which if one falls, causes no damage. Nowhere is there an actual description of the contents of this room.




You're right, it's a stub.  What's missing are stat blocks for the two swarms lurking inside (bats and rats).  There really is no good reason for PCs to come down here (other than some shinies that might be mixed in with the trash) but there's no way for them to know that ahead of time.

I'll get the stat blocks in and update the description today or tomorrow.  Sorry I didn't finish, I got insanely busy and then I thought the project was dead.


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## Roger (Aug 17, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Room #11 (Roger) - I think I'm in favor of swapping this room with room #4. I think more than one shadow might be nice, too, since all of the greater shadow's victims would now also be shadows. They could be lesser shadows (less than the PHB standard), and would make for a very interesting, difficult encounter.




Sounds perfectly fine by me.


Cheers,
Roger


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## der_kluge (Aug 18, 2006)

Conaill said:
			
		

> Sorry for the absence...
> 
> The idea was that the party of gobolds/koblins in #12 had been stuck there for several weeks - long enough for the top dogs in the party to start using the other party members as rations, untill only one "underdog" remained (the one who may want to help out the PC's, rather than feed them to the ooze).
> 
> For these guys to be stuck here for this long, it seems illogical for them to be within shouting distance of the kobolds in #3, which is why I wanted them to be unrelated to those guys. Hence a goblin party which managed to sneak (or fight their way) past the kobolds. If we make them a breakaway group of kobolds, with good reason to expect nothing but hostility from the kobolds in #3, that would work too.




I was thinking more apathy. For goblins to get down here, they'd have fought the kobolds. They would have either all died, or they would have killed all the kobolds. I'd rather see them being kobolds who just set out to explore the cavern. They have shouted for help, but the other kobolds are simply not interested in helping them, since it would mean risking their own lives.



> As for the PCs needing a reason to go into #12... since when have adventurers needed a reason to explore dangerous caves?  The ooze is well enough hidden (counts as invisible inside the shallow pool of water) that they probably won't notice it until it's too late to avoid. I figure #12 may also be the reason why the "painter" people in #2 worshiped this cave complex - maybe the inside is full of paintings. That should be good enough to lure a band of unsuspecting adventurers past an innocent-looking pool of water.




I was thinking that if the PCs started talking to the kobolds here, they might be able to surmise that there isn't anything of interest in the room. If they don't have any reason to go past the ooze, and rescue the goblins, they'll end up being as apathetic about the kobold's situation as the other kobolds are.  What might be cool, however is as you suggest, some cave paintings on the wall.  Maybe the cave paintings are even magical in nature, and do something under the right circumstances.  Now that would convince a party to move further into the chamber, and give them something to do once they get there. I really like that idea.



> If the PCs do notice the ooze in advance and decide to leave #12 alone, _then_ the trapped koblins could come out of hiding and offer the PCs riches beyond their wildest dreams - lies, of course, since the koblins intend to escape as soon as the PCs are in combat with the ooze.
> 
> Makes sense?




Certainly a plausible set of tactics - hide until the PCs engage, and then try to run past. Perhaps the remaining goblins are split on what to do - some might try this tactic. The others might favor opening up a line of communication - hoping to entice the PCs further into the chamer in order to convince them to engage the ooze.


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## der_kluge (Aug 18, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> You're right, it's a stub.  What's missing are stat blocks for the two swarms lurking inside (bats and rats).  There really is no good reason for PCs to come down here (other than some shinies that might be mixed in with the trash) but there's no way for them to know that ahead of time.
> 
> I'll get the stat blocks in and update the description today or tomorrow.  Sorry I didn't finish, I got insanely busy and then I thought the project was dead.





I just lost access to ENworld for a while.  But I'm back now.


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## der_kluge (Aug 25, 2006)

10. Bubble Chamber


> This chamber is completely pitch black. Aside from the sounds of water gushing around your ears as you look around it is also dreadfully quiet.




Area 10 is two areas – the dark, underwater sections surrounding the “bubble” chamber, and the chamber itself.  Anyone with time on their hands (or magically imbued with the power to breathe underwater) can find 2pp, 13gp, 17sp and 32cp scattered all about this chamber on the cavern floor (assuming they have some source of light). These are coins that have, at one time or another, wedged themselves into one of the dragon’s scales, and then were deposited here. Aside from this, there is nothing of interest or value in the submerged portion of this chamber.

The current here is negligible, and swimming through the cavern is not terribly difficult. The biggest hazard is the sheer size of the cavern, so swimming it’s length with one breathe is the most difficult task, unless one happens upon the opening in the top of the chamber.

The “bubble” chamber here contains a Will-O’-Wisp – a bizarre creature who feeds on panic and horror. He’s found the perfect home. But how the Will-O’-Wisp came to be here is a bit of a curiosity. The Will-O’-Wisp didn’t happen upon this place accidentally, he was led here - or rather it followed Artix here. (Artix is the younger of the two dragons who reside in area 11.)

The Will-O’-Wisp (or Zxyquzh, as his friends call him) (pronounced just as it’s written) will light up, inviting anyone to come join him in the chamber – if he sees anyone swimming around in the chamber (Spot +20). Zxyquzh has no interest in combat, and anyone swimming around here is usually accompanied by an ample amount of fear and panic, which strengthens Zxyquzh considerably. Zxyquzh will happily illuminate the cavern and then relish in his new found source of food as the PC swims into the “safe” enclave of the bubble chamber.

Zxyquzh will automatically illuminate the chamber should anyone enter that he hadn’t previously spotted. 



> This cavern, illuminated by a strange floating, glowing ball of light, is about 20 feet deep and equally as wide. It rises slightly up and out of the water. Towards the back of the cavern, amidst a pile of bones is a rather odd looking scythe lying on the ground.




The bones are victims of Artix’s tactics in the past. Here victims reside until they are too weak to fight, and Artix comes back later to finish them off. Amidst these bones one will find shreddings that once were clothes. The bones all having numerous claw and bite scratches on them, providing a clue to their victim’s fate.

The scythe is another matter entirely, and it is this scythe that the Will-O’-Wisp is tied to, and the main reason why Zxyquzh is here. Zxyquzh is tied to this weapon, which also carries a name – Argox the Pained. Artix would add this scythe to their normal dragon horde, but he fears the weapon greatly, and wants nothing to do with it.

*Argox, the Pained:* +3 Keen Scythe; AL CN; Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 14; Speech, 120 ft. vision and hearing; Ego score 14.
_Lesser Powers:_ Item has 10 ranks in Intimidate, Item casts _Aid_ on wielder 3/day (CL 3).
_Special Purpose: _ Defeat/slay dragons.
_Dedicated Power:_ Wielder gets a +2 luck bonus on attacks, saves, and checks.
_Personality:_ Argox was once the simple tool of a peasant by the same name who happily worked his fields day after day to support his family. Then one fateful day a red dragon flew over his fields while he was working – torched his house and ate his family. Argox was so filled with rage that from that moment on he vowed to hunt down and kill all dragons. He set out on his quest and as his anger grew, so did his weapon, who constantly was responsible for slaying monster after monster from Argox’s built up anger. But Argox never lost sight of his quest and he eventually found that red dragon and slew it, and countless other dragons as well. Colors are irrelevant for Argox, and alignment is meaningless – if it’s a dragon, it must die.
	At some point in history, a Will-O’-Wisp by the name of Zxyquzh came into contact with Argox and his scythe. He found so much pain and death built up into the weapon that all other food sources seemed largely irrelevant. It has followed Argox ever since.
	Argox begrudingly tolerates Zxyquzh and the two have become a somewhat unlikely couple. The two have even been known to carry on lengthy conversations about previous owners, exploits, and the various dragons that they have encountered. 

Individuals who pick up Argox, and are not chaotic neutral will incur temporary negative levels for as long as they continue to wield the weapon. See the rules in Core rulebook #3 on intelligent items.


*Zxyquzh, advanced Will-O’-Wisp*
*Size/Type:*  		Small Aberration (Air)
*Hit Dice: * 		13d8 (58 hp)
*Initiative: *	 	+14
*Speed: * 			Fly 50 ft. (perfect) (10 squares)
*Armor Class: * 		30 (+1 size, +10 Dex, +9 deflection), touch 30, flat-footed 21
*Base Attack/Grapple: * 	+6/-3
*Attack: * 		Shock +17 melee touch (2d8 electricity)
*Full Attack: * 		Shock +17 melee touch (2d8 electricity)
*Space/Reach: * 		5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Qualities: *		Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to magic, natural invisibility
*Saves: * 			Fort +3, Ref +13, Will +11
*Abilities: *	 	Str 1, Dex 30, Con 10, Int 15, Wis 16, Cha 12
*Skills: * 			Bluff +17 (+2 Persuasive), Diplomacy +5, Disguise +1 (+3 acting), Intimidate +6 (Persuasive), Listen +20, Search +17, Spot +20, Survival +5 (+7 following tracks)
*Feats: * 			Alertness, Blind-Fight, Dodge, Improved Initiative, Persuasive, Weapon Finesse
*Challenge Rating: *		7
*Alignment: * 		chaotic neutral

Zxyquzh is a Will-O’-Wisp not unlike any other Will-O’-Wisp. The major exception is that Zxyquzh has been around Argox long enough that he’s become less chaotic evil, and is now more chaotic neutral. He loves pain and anguish and relishes in the moments when he enters town or enters an establishment where people fear his presence. He will always go where Argox goes. Argox tolerates Zxyquzh’s presence. The two have become somewhat unlikely friends over the course of the last 100 or so years that they’ve been together. Zxyquzh and Argox have been in the dragon cave for about 15 years so far, and while Zxyquzh is happy in his home, Argox wants nothing more than to slay the dragons who live near him.

*Immunity to Magic (Ex):* Zxyquzh is immune to most spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.
*Natural Invisibility (Ex): * Zxyquzh can extinguish its glow, effectively becoming invisible as the spell.

*Zxyquzh’s Tactics*
Zxyquzh is really only interested in feeding off the pain and anguish of others, and the scythe that he’s discovered is the best source of it he’s ever found. Zxyquzh. He has absolutely no desire to leave, and will even go so far as to beg a PC who has other plans for him. He is a coward by his nature, and will only attack in the most dire of circumstances, choosing to flee or hide if those options are available to him. The one exception to this is during a battle with dragons. Argox usually coaxes Zxyquzh out of his normal complacent state into battle when dragons are being fought. Zxyquzh will usually attack dragons, but only dragons, and even then he will often run to hide every other round.

Contributed by: Curtis "der_kluge" Bennett


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## der_kluge (Aug 25, 2006)

I haven't heard from Tonguez, so I plan on doing room #5 next.

If you don't want me doing your room (see the comments above), I suggest you get cracking!

I'd like to finish this some day...


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## der_kluge (Aug 25, 2006)

Also, if anyone has any idea at all how to price an intelligent weapon, I'd be happy to understand the process, because the DMG and SRD are really, really vague on the matter.


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## Elephant (Aug 25, 2006)

1.  The Good News:  I have a pretty decent idea of how to price an intelligent weapon, assuming I sit down with the book and work through that section.

2.  The Bad News:  Given how busy I am with work, I'm not likely to have time to do that ... or to re-stat Ghzzdit the Choker down a couple of CRs, either.

...could someone refigure his stats by removing his class levels?  I'd be grateful for the assistance


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## der_kluge (Aug 28, 2006)

5. Assassin Vine Lair (EL 6)



> The naturally sloping earthen staircase curves slightly to the left and steeply climbs upwards into what seems to be hard packed dirt, with many thick roots hanging out of the ceiling. The slope levels off, but the room is filled with numerous thick roots which descending from the earthen ceiling. You must be close to the surface here. These look to the be the root systems of numerous trees. Along the ground you see hundreds of mushrooms of various sizes.




Tree roots choke this room making it difficult to pass through quickly. Movement is cut in half for all movement in this area. There is a rather nasty Assassin Vine growing here. It has figured out that it can get food sources below ground as well as above ground here, and thus has vines which extend beneath the surface, where it primarily resides. This Assassin Vine is huge. The kobolds residing in the cave have learned that they can bypass it by skirting along the far left wall, and hugging it around until they get to the clearing on the far side. Following the most direct path along the right wall takes on one a path directly through Assassin Vine territory.

*Advanced Assassin Vine*
*Size/Type: *  	Huge Plant
*Hit Dice: * 	12d8+60 (114 hp)
*Initiative: * 	-1 (-1 Dex)
*Speed: * 	5 ft. (1 square)
*Armor Class: *	16 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 16
*Base Attack/Grapple: * 	+9/+27
*Attack: * 	Slam +17 melee (1d8+15)
*Full Attack: * 	Slam +17 melee (1d8+15)
*Space/Reach: * 	10 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with vine)
*Special Attacks: * 	Constrict 1d8+15, entangle, improved grab
*Special Qualities: * 	Blindsight 30 ft., camouflage, immunity to electricity,
low-light vision, plant traits, resistance to cold 10 and fire 10
*Saves: * 	Fort +13, Ref +3, Will +5
*Abilities: * 	Str 30, Dex 8, Con 20, Int –, Wis 13, Cha 9
*Challenge Rating: * 	6
*Alignment: * 	neutral

*Combat*
An assassin vine uses simple tactics: It lies still until prey comes within reach, then attacks. It uses its entangle ability both to catch prey and to deter counterattacks.

*Constrict (Ex):*An assassin vine deals 1d8+15 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

*Entangle (Su):* Under normal circumstances, an Assassin Vine could animate plants within 30’ of itself, but since this is underground there are no plants, save for mushrooms, and mushrooms can’t exactly entangle people. So, save for the unusual growth of plants in this area, this Assassin Vine doesn’t have access to this ability. If plants happen to grow here, for some strange reason, the Reflex save DC would be 17. The effect lasts until the vine dies or decides to end it (also a free action). 

*Improved Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, an assassin vine must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.

*Blindsight (Ex):* Assassin vines have no visual organs but can ascertain all foes within 30 feet using sound, scent, and vibration.

*Camouflage (Ex):* Dwarves can use stonecunning to notice this subterranean version. Otherwise, this particular Assassin Vine looks like normal roots. 


The mushrooms here are harmless, and many are quite edible. Those individuals who make a DC 15 Knowledge (Nature) roll can determine which ones are edible. 

*Treasure:* Unless someone disturbs the mushrooms, finding this treasure is unlikely. Just below the surface here one can find 3 small emeralds (worth 40gp each), and 2 pearls (15gp each). Furthermore, there is a ring Chameleon Power hidden here.


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## Ilium (Aug 29, 2006)

*Room 4 - Garbage Cave*

Ok, der_kluge has berated me enough.   Here's my room:

Room 4 - Garbage Cave

*EL: 5*

The dragons' servants use this chamber to dispose of rubbish and the occasional prisoner.



> The first thing you notice as you approach this tunnel opening is an overpowering acrid stench, with an undercurrent of decay.  The floor of the tunnel is formed of stone worn smooth, apparently by frequent travel.  Scattered about are gnawed bits of bone, gristle and small pieces of cloth and other debris.  The tunnel slopes down steeply, then seems to level out some 30 feet ahead as the tunnel opens out into a larger space.  The walls and floor glisten with moisture and the sound of dripping water can be heard in the dark below.




The sloped floor of the tunnel is extremely slippery, being covered with a combination of water and decomposed trash.  A DC 10 Balance check is required to move down the slope without falling prone.  Attempting to move up the slope requires a DC 25 Balance check, and each square entered costs two squares of movement.  An adventurer can instead use a DC 15 climb check but will then move at climb speed rather than normal movement speed, lose Dex bonus to AC, and otherwise be under the restrictions of making a Climb check.  

If a rope is affixed at the top of the slope, any character holding onto it can descend with a DC 5 balance check or ascend with a DC 15 Balance or DC 5 Climb check. 

Anyone who falls prone on the slope must make a DC 20 Reflex save or slide all the way to the bottom.  This causes no damage.  Any character who reaches the bottom of the slope, by whatever means, sees:
*Bottom of the Slope*


> The smell of rot here is nearly overpowering. At the foot of the slope, the tunnel switches back onto itself and opens into a cavern, some 30-40 feet wide and stretching perhap twice that distance away.  The ceiling in the nearer portion arches grandly up out of sight, though farther into the chamber is lowers swiftly, meeting with the back wall at a sharp angle.  The floor is covered with greasy puddles and mounds of decaying refuse of every description.  Bones and other remains of various creatures are prominent, but piles of leaves, rock, dirt and other refuse abound as well.  In the otherwise silent chamber, you hear faint sounds of scuttling among the debris and faint rustling from above.




There are many kinds of vermin among the trash, but only the swarm of centipedes present any danger.  They will rush at any creature sliding or stepping onto the floor at the foot of the slope.  

In addition, there is a bat swarm roosting on the ceiling 50 feet above during daylight hours. There are cracks and channels leading from there to the surface, which the bats use to leave at night to hunt.  These air channels also provide enough ventilation to keep the stench of this cave from permeating the entire complex. The bats will be disturbed and attack any creature bearing a light source, or any creature that becomes airborne for more than a round.

Creatures

*Bat Swarm*

*Diminutive Animal (Swarm)* 
*Hit Dice:* 3d8 (13 hp) 
*Initiative:* +2 
*Speed:* 5 ft. (1 square), fly 40 ft. (good) 
*Armor Class:* 16 (+4 size, +2 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 12 
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +2/— 
*Attack:* Swarm (1d6) 
*Full Attack:* Swarm (1d6) 
*Space/Reach:* 10 ft./0 ft. 
*Special Attacks:* Distraction, wounding 
*Special Qualities:* Blindsense 20 ft., immune to weapon damage, low-light vision, swarm traits 
*Saves:* Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +3 
*Abilities:* Str 3, Dex 15, Con 10, Int 2, Wis 14, Cha 4 
*Skills:* Listen +11, Spot +11 
*Feats:* Alertness, Lightning Reflexes 
*Environment:* Temperate deserts 
*Organization:* Solitary, flight (2–4 swarms), or colony (11–20 swarms) 
*Challenge Rating:* 2 
*Treasure:* None 
*Alignment:* Always neutral 
*Advancement:* None 
*Level Adjustment:* — 
A bat swarm is nocturnal, and is never found aboveground in daylight.
*Combat*
A bat swarm seeks to surround and attack any warm-blooded prey it encounters. The swarm deals 1d6 points of damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move.
*Distraction (Ex):* Any living creature that begins its turn with a swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 11 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.
*Wounding (Ex):* Any living creature damaged by a bat swarm continues to bleed, losing 1 hit point per round thereafter. Multiple wounds do not result in cumulative bleeding loss. The bleeding can be stopped by a DC 10 Heal check or the application of a cure spell or some other healing magic.
*Blindsense (Ex):* A bat swarm notices and locates creatures within 20 feet. Opponents still have total concealment against the bat swarm (but swarm attacks ignore concealment).
*Skills:* A bat swarm has a +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks. These bonuses are lost if its blindsense is negated.

*Centipede Swarm*

*Diminutive Vermin (Swarm) 
Hit Dice: 9d8–9 (31 hp) 
Initiative: +4 
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 20 ft. 
Armor Class: 18 (+4 size, +4 Dex), touch 18, flat-footed 14 
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/— 
Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus poison) 
Full Attack: Swarm (2d6 plus poison) 
Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft. 
Special Attacks: Distraction, poison 
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., immune to weapon damage, swarm traits, tremorsense 30 ft., vermin traits 
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +3 
Abilities: Str 1, Dex 19, Con 8, Int —, Wis 10, Cha 2 
Skills: Climb +12, Spot +4 
Feats: Weapon Finesse 
Environment: Underground 
Organization: Solitary, tangle (2–4 swarms), or colony (7–12 swarms) 
Challenge Rating: 4 
Treasure: None 
Alignment: Always neutral 
Advancement: None 
Level Adjustment: — 
Combat
A centipede swarm seeks to surround and attack any living prey it encounters. A swarm deals 2d6 points of damage to any creature whose space it occupies at the end of its move.
Distraction (Ex): Any living creature that begins its turn with a centipede swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Poison (Ex): Injury, Fortitude DC 13, initial and secondary damage 1d4 Dex. The save DC is Constitution-based.
Skills: A centipede swarm has a +4 racial bonus on Spot checks and a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks, and uses its Dexterity modifier instead of its Strength modifier for Climb checks. A centipede swarm has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.

Treasure
If anyone takes the time to rummage through the trash, a DC 20 Search check will reveal a still-closed pouch near the gnawed bones of an unidentifiable humanoid. This poor soul was a captive the kobolds didn't search very well before throwing him down the slope for their amusement.  The pouch contains some 50 GP in various coins as well as a vial of clear liquid. The liquid is a potion of Bull's Strength that the vicitm never had a chance to use before the centipedes got him.*


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## der_kluge (Sep 1, 2006)

Ok, we're making some progress.  Some day, I'd like to finish this cave, so I can compile it all together and make it available as a free .pdf.

I haven't heard from several of you...


Room #2 (Scribble) - let's lose the "gate" at the bottom of the chasm. I'd rather see something more "mundane" down there. Maybe spiders, treasure, skeletons, or an entrance into an entirely different dungeon.

Room #2a (Elephant) - I'm a little confused regarding the "upper passageway" that this room describes for the eastern tunnel. Can you elaborate on that?

Room #3 (Whizbang Dustyboots) - We need stats for First From the Forest, and Dragon Speaker, as well as regular Kobold stats. Also, we might want to rethink the idea of them sending a warning party to the dragons, since if the kobolds here hear the PCs coming, they are likely going to run right past them on the way to warning the dragons. So, it seems likely that that isn't really an option, given their location.

Room #7 (Elephant) - Let's lower Ghzzdit's CR to something more like 6/7. At EL 11, he's as hard as the dragon's lair.  Are you still really busy, Elephant?  I can redo his stats if you are.

Room #11 (Roger) - I like this room, but it seems a little incomplete. It seems reasonable that there might be several shadows here since the greater shadows victims would also become shadows. Also, I see no reason why a shadow wouldn't also be affected by the constant acid that affects this area. As a spell, or supernatural effect, the shadow would take damage from it like any other creature.

Room #12 (Conail) - I'd like to see kobolds here. Also, the idea of having cave paintings on the wall (perhaps made with the same magical paint as in the entrance) is very appealing to me, and very interesting. Are you still willing to finish this room?


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## Elephant (Sep 1, 2006)

Yep, I'm really busy.  Ghzzdit's class levels should go away to drop him to more of a speed-bump challenge level.

In room 2a, I wrote it as though there's an obvious ground passage, trapped, with a non-obvious second tunnel up through the ceiling - that's the one the dragon uses to avoid the trap.  If that doesn't work for you, I'd say remove the trap in that section.


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## Roger (Sep 1, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Room #11 (Roger) - I like this room, but it seems a little incomplete. It seems reasonable that there might be several shadows here since the greater shadows victims would also become shadows. Also, I see no reason why a shadow wouldn't also be affected by the constant acid that affects this area. As a spell, or supernatural effect, the shadow would take damage from it like any other creature.




Sure, add more shadows if you like.  I was just a bit worried about the challenge level, but it's easy enough to scale by adding or removing shadows.

Also, moving everything to room #4 should be fine, if that's still the plan.

The shadows can be affected by the acid, which is why they normally hang out inside the solid stone walls or floors.


Cheers,
Roger


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## Ilium (Sep 1, 2006)

Roger: I meant to ask you about the room swap.  If we do trade I'll have to re-do my description slightly to account for the double passageway.


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## der_kluge (Sep 2, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> Roger: I meant to ask you about the room swap.  If we do trade I'll have to re-do my description slightly to account for the double passageway.





Actually, I like the rooms as they are now. I think Rogers room works just fine for room 11, and your new version works very well for room 4.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 2, 2006)

I've been swamped with work. I'll try and get the two nameds done this weekend, along with standard kobold stats for the others.


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## der_kluge (Sep 10, 2006)

#7, Choker's Lair (EL 6)

Traps: None



> As you reach the top of this incline, the tunnel widens into a broader cavern, roughly 20' by 30' across. The smell of decay assaults your nostrils, and you see a pile of bones scattered haphazardly across the jagged stone floor. A gleam of metal in the flickering light from your torch catches your eye. The uneven floor pokes uncomfortably at your boots as you step forward.





*Room Notes:* While the jagged floor is uncomfortable to walk on, it does not have any mechanical effects on movement. It does, however, increase falling damage by 1d6 (falling 10 feet causes 2d6 damage, etc). The roof of the cavern is 20' up near the edges of the room, but there is one "chimney" about 10' in diameter leading up 20' to the top. The chimney may be reached with a DC 25 Climb check from any point in the cavern due to the irregular structure of the rocks in this chamber.

Even if the PCs have Darkvision, the chokers have a good enough ambush position that they remain hidden. It takes a DC 26 Spot check to notice them before they attack the party.

If the PCs are bearing lights, the chokers automatically follow their progress through the room. They will only need to roll Spot and Listen checks if they are scouting in complete darkness.

*Ghzzdit & Ghzzdot, Advanced Chokers
Size/Type:*  	Medium Aberration
*Hit Dice:* 	12d8+36 (85 hp)
*Initiative: *	+5
*Speed: *		30 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft.
*Armor Class: *	 15 (+1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
*Base Attack/Grapple: *	+9/+18
*Attack: *	Tentacle +15 melee (1d6+5)
*Full Attack: *	2 tentacles +15 melee (1d6+5)
*Space/Reach: *	5 ft./10 ft.
*Special Attacks: *	Improved grab, constrict 1d6+5
*Special Qualities: *	Darkvision 60 ft., quickness
*Saves:* 		Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +9
*Abilities:* 	Str 21, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 4, Wis 14, Cha 7
*Skills:* 	Climb +16, Hide +16, Listen +2, Move Silently +9, Spot +2
*Feats:* 	Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus (Hide), Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
*Challenge Rating:* 	4
*Alignment:* 	chaotic evil


Ghzzdit and Ghzzdot lurk above the entrance to this chamber, 10 ft above the cave floor. They takes 10 on their Hide checks for a total of 26 in order to better ambush prey. Unless the PCs take extraordinary measures to avoid detection, they wait here to ambush them when they arrive.

*Constrict (Ex):* A choker deals 1d3+3 points of damage with a successful grapple check against a Large or smaller creature. Because it seizes its victim by the neck, a creature in the choker’s grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components.

*Improved Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, a choker must hit a Large or smaller opponent with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict. Chokers receive a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks, which is already included in the statistics block.

*Quickness (Su):* Although not particularly dexterous, a choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn each round.

*Skills:* A chokers has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


*tactics:* The chokers make no distinction with regards to their prey. They attack the two first PCs who come within attack range. Once a victim is grappled, the chokers will attempt to haul their victims up to a shelf hidden within their chimney. The choker's will need to make successful strength checks in order to accomplish this, otherwise, they will release their victims. 

*DM's Notes:* PCs with reach weapons may attack the choker's normally as long as they are on the ceiling. Otherwise, a DC 20 Jump check will allow any PC to get close enough to strike. If the choker's move up their chimney (with or without a victim) they will be out of melee range. A DC 25 Climb check will allow a PC to climb up onto the choker's ambush shelf.


*Treasure:* A rusty dagger, a tattered pair of hard-soled red leather shoes and a gold ring (225gp) are all that can be found amongst the bones. If Mending or Make Whole is cast on the shoes, they become worth 25gp.

*Background Note:* The dragon's slaves regularly sweep the chamber for treasure; all the gear of Ghzzdit's past victims now lies in the dragon's treasure pile, except for the items noted above.

Contributor: Brian "the Elephant" Thompson


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## Shieldhaven (Sep 11, 2006)

Well, I'm lame and just now saw this post again after a long period of forgetfulness.  So if my room hasn't already been handed off to someone else, I'll try to get my ideas back together and post them soon.  Honest.  If my room _has_ been auctioned off to the highest bidder, then I completely understand!

Haven


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## der_kluge (Sep 11, 2006)

Shieldhaven said:
			
		

> Well, I'm lame and just now saw this post again after a long period of forgetfulness.  So if my room hasn't already been handed off to someone else, I'll try to get my ideas back together and post them soon.  Honest.  If my room _has_ been auctioned off to the highest bidder, then I completely understand!
> 
> Haven




SH - that was room #10. Yea, I've redone it. You can see the new version here if you like.

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=3028248&postcount=238


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## Ilium (Sep 11, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Actually, I like the rooms as they are now. I think Rogers room works just fine for room 11, and your new version works very well for room 4.



 Cool.  Sorry it took me so long to get it done.


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## Ilium (Sep 11, 2006)

Der_kluge: I know you're planning to put this in a PDF eventually, which will be awesome.  But I have another format idea I've been kicking around and with your permission I'd like to try that out in parallel.  Obviously I'll post it on EN World for everybody, but it's an experiment that I'll be looking for feedback on, and not "ready for prime time".


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## der_kluge (Sep 11, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> Der_kluge: I know you're planning to put this in a PDF eventually, which will be awesome.  But I have another format idea I've been kicking around and with your permission I'd like to try that out in parallel.  Obviously I'll post it on EN World for everybody, but it's an experiment that I'll be looking for feedback on, and not "ready for prime time".





You're wanting to put the collaborate cave in this new format?  Go for it!


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## Ilium (Sep 11, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> You're wanting to put the collaborate cave in this new format?  Go for it!



 Cool, thanks!  Not sure when I'll get around to it, but it should be some time in the next week or two.  I don't want people to rely on me, though.  We've seen how well that goes.


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## Elephant (Sep 13, 2006)

Errant apostrophes removed.  Also, what's up with the un-choker-like tactics?  The SRD says they like to ambush the *last* guy in line, not the first one.

Of course, it also says they like to work alone, but a single CR 4 (or should it be 5?  I'm not sure anymore) creature just wouldn't be proper for a level 8 group.



#7, Chokers' Lair (EL 6)

Traps: None

As you reach the top of this incline, the tunnel widens into a broader cavern, roughly 20' by 30' across. The smell of decay assaults your nostrils, and you see a pile of bones scattered haphazardly across the jagged stone floor. A gleam of metal in the flickering light from your torch catches your eye. The uneven floor pokes uncomfortably at your boots as you step forward.

Room Notes: While the jagged floor is uncomfortable to walk on, it does not have any mechanical effects on movement. It does, however, increase falling damage by 1d6 (falling 10 feet causes 2d6 damage, etc). The roof of the cavern is 20' up near the edges of the room, but there is one "chimney" about 10' in diameter leading up 20' to the top. The chimney may be reached with a DC 25 Climb check from any point in the cavern due to the irregular structure of the rocks in this chamber.

Even if the PCs have Darkvision, the chokers have a good enough ambush position that they remain hidden. It takes a DC 26 Spot check to notice them before they attack the party.

If the PCs are bearing lights, the chokers automatically follow their progress through the room. They will only need to roll Spot and Listen checks if they are scouting in complete darkness.

Ghzzdit & Ghzzdot, Advanced Chokers
Size/Type:  	Medium Aberration
Hit Dice: 	12d8+36 (85 hp)
Initiative: 	+5
Speed: 		30 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft.
Armor Class: 	 15 (+1 Dex, +4 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: 	+9/+18
Attack: 	Tentacle +15 melee (1d6+5)
Full Attack: 	2 tentacles +15 melee (1d6+5)
Space/Reach: 	5 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: 	Improved grab, constrict 1d6+5
Special Qualities: 	Darkvision 60 ft., quickness
Saves: 		Fort +7, Ref +7, Will +9
Abilities: 	Str 21, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 4, Wis 14, Cha 7
Skills: 	Climb +16, Hide +16, Listen +2, Move Silently +9, Spot +2
Feats: 	Improved Initiative, Improved Natural Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Skill Focus (Hide), Stealthy, Weapon Focus (Tentacle)
Challenge Rating: 	4
Alignment: 	chaotic evil


Ghzzdit and Ghzzdot lurk above the entrance to this chamber, 10 ft above the cave floor. They takes 10 on their Hide checks for a total of 26 in order to better ambush prey. Unless the PCs take extraordinary measures to avoid detection, they wait here to ambush them when they arrive.

Constrict (Ex): A choker deals 1d3+3 points of damage with a successful grapple check against a Large or smaller creature. Because it seizes its victim by the neck, a creature in the choker’s grasp cannot speak or cast spells with verbal components.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a choker must hit a Large or smaller opponent with a tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict. Chokers receive a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks, which is already included in the statistics block.

Quickness (Su): Although not particularly dexterous, a choker is supernaturally quick. It can take an extra standard action or move action during its turn each round.

Skills: A chokers has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.

Tactics: The chokers make no distinction with regards to their prey. They attack the two first PCs who come within attack range. Once a victim is grappled, the chokers will attempt to haul their victims up to a shelf hidden within their chimney. The chokers will need to make successful strength checks in order to accomplish this, otherwise, they will release their victims. 

DM's Notes: PCs with reach weapons may attack the chokers normally as long as they are on the ceiling. Otherwise, a DC 20 Jump check will allow any PC to get close enough to strike. If the choker's move up their chimney (with or without a victim) they will be out of melee range. A DC 25 Climb check will allow a PC to climb up onto the chokers' ambush shelf.


Treasure: A rusty dagger, a tattered pair of hard-soled red leather shoes and a gold ring (225gp) are all that can be found amongst the bones. If Mending or Make Whole is cast on the shoes, they become worth 25gp.

Background Note: The dragon's slaves regularly sweep the chamber for treasure; all the gear of Ghzzdit's past victims now lies in the dragon's treasure pile, except for the items noted above.

Contributor: Brian "the Elephant" Thompson


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## der_kluge (Sep 13, 2006)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Errant apostrophes removed.  Also, what's up with the un-choker-like tactics?  The SRD says they like to ambush the *last* guy in line, not the first one.
> 
> Of course, it also says they like to work alone, but a single CR 4 (or should it be 5?  I'm not sure anymore) creature just wouldn't be proper for a level 8 group.




My bad. Feel free to alter the tactics however you like.


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## der_kluge (Sep 19, 2006)

11: Fog and Death (EL 9)



> As you descend the narrow twisting passage into this chamber, you find yourself confronted by a thick, dense bank of acrid fog.




While the dragons have been occupying this cave system, small amounts of the corrosive gas they exhale in area 8 finds its way here where it has become trapped. 

Treat this as a permanent acid fog trap which cannot be dispelled or disabled. Due to the geometry of the chamber, even strong winds cannot disperse the vapors.

Natural Acid Fog Trap
CR 7; magic device; no trigger (always active); simulated spell effect (acid fog, 2d6/round acid); Search DC n/a; Disable Device --. 

As a method of enforcing obedience among the kodolds, or perhaps just for their cruel amusement, the dragons occasionally order offenders to be bound and thrown into the room. Their deaths are agonizing as the acid dissolves their bodies. The first death here spawned a shadow who in turn has killed two other victims abandoned here. Now there are five shadows in the area.

*Kobold Shadows, 5
Size/Type:*  	Small Undead (Incorporeal)
*Hit Dice:*  	3d12 (19 hp)
*Initiative: *  	+3
*Speed: *  	Fly 30 ft. (good) (6 squares)
*Armor Class: *  	15 (+3 Dex, +1 size, +1 deflection), touch 15, flat-footed 12
*Base Attack/Grapple: *  	+1/—
*Attack: *  	Incorporeal touch +4 melee (1d4 Str)
*Full Attack: *  	Incorporeal touch +4 melee (1d4 Str)
*Space/Reach: *  	5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks: * 	Create spawn, strength damage
*Special Qualities: * 	Darkvision 60 ft., incorporeal traits, +2 turn resistance, undead traits  	
*Saves: *  	Fort +1, Ref +4, Will +4
*Abilities: *  	Str 0, Dex 16, Con 0, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 13
*Skills: *  	Hide +12, Listen +7, Search +4, Spot +7
*Feats: *  	Alertness, Dodge
*Challenge Rating: *  	2
*Alignment: *  	Chaotic evil

*Strength Damage (Su):* The touch of a kobold shadow deals 1d4 points of Strength damage to a living foe. A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. This is a negative energy effect. 

*Create Spawn (Su):* Any humanoid reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow becomes a shadow under the control of its killer within 1d4 rounds.

*Tactics:* The shadows lack any sort of real tactics, and simply move in to attack the first subject into the room. If more than one subject enters a room, the one who is damaged the most on the first round is the subject to all of their attacks on the second. Since the acid fog here damages them as well, they don’t typically linger more than two rounds, and flee into the safety of the walls afterwards.

*Treasure:* Amidst the rubble on the floor here lie the pitted, decayed remains of several kobold victims. There are ragged remains of clothes, bones and ruined baubles amidst the dirt and rocks here. There are however, a few things here which are still intact. A modest DC 18 Search check will reveal them. A potion of _Gaseous Form_, a Ring of Counterspells (with the spell _dispel magic_ placed into it), and an Elixir of Hiding.

Contributor: Roger Carbol.


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## Ilium (Sep 19, 2006)

I like the kobold shadows.  Cool.  But the text says there are 3 and the stat block says there are 5.  Which is it?


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## KB9JMQ (Sep 19, 2006)

Just to let you know I am really looking forward to running this and can't wait till it is done.


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## der_kluge (Sep 20, 2006)

Ilium said:
			
		

> I like the kobold shadows.  Cool.  But the text says there are 3 and the stat block says there are 5.  Which is it?




D'oh!  My bad.  I was originally thinking 3, but then it didn't make sense to have medium-sized shadows which were spawned from kobolds, so I dropped the shadow down to medium size, and felt justified to drop the CR to 2 (since the damage dropped to just 1d4 strength), and that meant I could bump up the number to five without having too great of an EL.  Good catch. Thanks.



			
				KB9JMQ said:
			
		

> Just to let you know I am really looking forward to running this and can't wait till it is done.




Great!  Hopefully It'll get finished one of these days. It's getting very close.


I'm working on an EL ~25 Red Dragon lair in my spare time (exceedingly spare) so I can have an excuse to use my Colossal Red Dragon.


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## Mark (Sep 20, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Great!  Hopefully It'll get finished one of these days. It's getting very close.





Excellent!  Coming along nicely.  You're almost done with difficult part one.  Next comes editing, proofing, layout, second proofing, and marketing.  Or as those of us who worked behind the scenes on the CD projects like to call them, difficult parts two, three, four, five, and six! 

Hang in there!


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## der_kluge (Sep 21, 2006)

12. A Door to Nowhere (EL 6)



> You move easily through the hallway and find that it opens up into a very large earthen chamber. The ceiling rises abruptly to about 20 feet tall. A large pool of water sits quietly still before you. Beyond that, the chamber continues on into inky darkness. The air here is still.




This chamber is empty save for a few small (harmless) rats scurrying about just out of the edge of the PC’s light source. The pool of water is actually a pool of corrosive acid. Anyone deliberately entering the pool takes 2d6 points of acid damage each round they remain init. Simply sticking a hand of finger into the pool incurs 1d4 points of damage each round. The pool radiates faint Transmutation magic. At the bottom of the pool is a curious gem – an acid emerald, which can be found with a Search DC of 26. 

*Acid Emerald*
This magic emerald has the ability to convert water to acid at a rate of 16 ounces per day (1/8th of a gallon, or roughly half a liter). This process takes a full day. At the end of the day, treat the result as a vial of non-magical alchemical acid. 
Faint transmutation; CL 5th; Craft Wondrous Item, _make whole_, creator must have 10 ranks in the Craft(Alchemy) skill; Price 2,000 gp.



> Beyond the pool you see a ten to fifteen foot ledge which divides the room in half. The cavern continues on into the darkness on the upper level above the ledge.




PCs can climb the ledge with relative ease (Climb DC 10). The top of the ledge is relatively flat. All along the far eastern walls here the walls are covered in crude cave paintings. In the middle of the wall is a huge door, some 15 feet wide and 15 feet tall. This appears to be nothing more than a crude wooden double door with iron door handles. 



> The walls along the edge of the cave chamber are covered in various primitive cave paintings. While these beckon your attention, the main feature that catches your eye here is an enormous 15 foot wide by 15 foot tall wooden double door with iron handles.




In fact, the door is a huge mimic which has found its disguise to be quite effective. In fact, periodically the kobolds send “chosen ones” to the door (when they have numbers to spare) to see if they are successful opening the door. Thus far, none have returned. As such, near the edge of the wall lie numerous kobold and rat bones in small piles (Spot DC 15) at the base of the door. Particularly keen observers might also note a short sword and a dagger stuck to the frame of the door (Spot DC 20). Anyone coming within 15 feet of the door causes the mimic to spring to life and attack.

*Advanced Mimic
Size/Type:*  	Huge Aberration (Shapechanger)
*Hit Dice: * 	11d8+66 (115 hp)
*Initiative: * 	+0
*Speed: * 	10 ft. (2 squares)
*Armor Class: * 	16 (-2 size, +8 natural), touch 10, flat-footed 15
*Base Attack/Grapple: * 	+8/+24
*Attack: * 	Slam +15 melee (3d6+8)
*Full Attack: * 	2 slams +15 melee (3d6+8)
*Space/Reach: * 	15 ft./15 ft.
*Special Attacks: * 	Adhesive, crush
*Special Qualities: * 	Darkvision 60 ft., immunity to acid, mimic shape
*Saves: * 	Fort +10, Ref +5, Will +8
*Abilities: * 	Str 27, Dex 10, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 10
*Skills: * 	Climb +15, Disguise +15, Listen +10, Spot +10
*Feats: * 	Alertness, Improved Natural Attack, Lightning Reflexes, Weapon Focus (slam) 
*Challenge Rating: * 	6
*Alignment:* 	neutral

*Adhesive (Ex):* A mimic exudes a thick slime that acts as a powerful adhesive, holding fast any creatures or items that touch it. An adhesive-covered mimic automatically grapples any creature it hits with its slam attack. Opponents so grappled cannot get free while the mimic is alive without removing the adhesive first.

A weapon that strikes an adhesive-coated mimic is stuck fast unless the wielder succeeds on a DC 21 Reflex save. A successful DC 21 Strength check is needed to pry it off.

Strong alcohol dissolves the adhesive, but the mimic still can grapple normally. A mimic can dissolve its adhesive at will, and the substance breaks down 5 rounds after the creature dies.

*Crush (Ex):* A mimic deals 3d6+8 points of damage with a successful grapple check.

*Treasure* In a small nook behind the mimic lies a pile of treasure – 8pp, 47gp, 84sp, and 112cp. Two bronze rings (5sp each), and a silver necklace (5gp). A +2 shortsword is stuck in the mimic’s frame, but can be freed easily if the creature is slain. The dagger stuck here is masterwork, but not magical. 

*Cave paintings*



> The walls here are covered in cave paintings. Within the images, you find crudely drawn animals, hunters wielding spears, scenes of nature, and other flora and fauna. The images cover almost the entire length of the twisty rock wall, probably over a hundred feet of it in all.




Spellcasters who study the picture for more than a brief moment will get a vague sense that something is not quite right. Indeeed, the magic is a gigantic spell, _Permanent Image_ to be exact. Because of the bizarre nature of the writing, the DC to study the spell is 26 (instead of 21, as would be normal for a 6th level spell).  _Read Magic_ can read the spell normally, but the unconventional nature of it makes it harder to study. Successfully copying the spell (should a wizard choose to do so) does not remove it from the wall.

Contributor: Curtis “der_kluge” Bennett


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## der_kluge (Sep 22, 2006)

Room 2. (slight revision)

*At the bottom*

Anyone who falls down the chasm will get trapped about 100 feet down in a tangle of thick spider webs. Here, a dozen small monstrous spiders make their home, and typically feast on a healthy diet of bats, and the occasional rat. But any victim entering their webs is fair game.

*12 Small Monstrous Spider (EL 5)
Size/Type:* Small Vermin
*Hit Dice:* 1d8 (4 hp)
*Initiative:* +3
*Speed:* 30 ft. (6 squares), climb 20 ft.
*Armor Class:* 14 (+1 size, +3 Dex), touch 14, flat-footed 11
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +0/-6
*Attack:* Bite +4 melee (1d4-2 plus poison)
*Full Attack:* Bite +4 melee (1d4-2 plus poison)
*Space/Reach:* 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attack:* Poison, web
*Special Qualities:* Darkvision 60 ft., tremorsense 60 ft., vermin traits
*Saves: Fort +2, Ref +3, Will +0
Abilities: Str 7, Dex 17, Con 10, Int Ø, Wis 10, Cha 2
Skills: Climb +11, Hide +11*, Jump -2*, Spot +4*
Feats: Weapon Finesse
Challenge Rating: ½

Poison (Ex): A small monstrous spider has a poisonous bite. The bite deals 1d3 points of strength damage (initial and secondary damage). The Fort save DC is 10.

Web (Ex): These spiders can throw a web eight times per day. This is similar to an attack with a net but has a maximum range of 50 feet, with a range increment of 10 feet, and is effective against targets up to medium size. An entangled creature can escape with a successful Escape Artist check (DC 10) or burst it with a Strength check (DC 14). Both are standard actions. The check DCs are Constitution-based, and the Strength check DC includes a +4 racial bonus.

A monstrous spider can move across its own web at its climb speed and can pinpoint the location of any creature touching its web.

Tremorsense (Ex): A monstrous spider can detect and pinpoint any creature or object within 60 feet in contact with the ground, or within any range in contact with the spider’s webs.

The bottom of the chasm (some 20 feet below the spider's webs) has some treasure scattered about. Lying about amidst some rubble and debris one will find quite a few bones (kobold, rat, bat, and other), 12gp, 5sp, 1 misshapen pearl (12gp), and an arcane scroll which contains the following spells: Crushing Despair, and Lesser Geas.

Dm's notes: If you're feeling adventurous, you could place an entrance into more caves here for even more adventure.*


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 22, 2006)

I'm working on the kobolds, I swear!


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## Ilium (Sep 22, 2006)

Cool, because I think they're a really interesting idea.  Let me know if you'd like a hand statting out one of the NPC kobolds.


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## der_kluge (Sep 22, 2006)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> I'm working on the kobolds, I swear!




Great!  I eagerly await them.


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## der_kluge (Sep 29, 2006)

Room #3 addendum

*First From the Forest, Kobold Ftr3/Sor4/Dragon Disciple3 (green dragon)*
*Size/Type:*  	Small Humanoid (Reptilian)
*Hit Dice:* 	3d10+4d4+3d12+3 (48 hp)
*Initiative:* 	+7
*Speed:* 	30 ft. (6 squares)
*Armor Class:* 	19 (+1 size, +3 Dex, +2 natural, +3 leather), touch 14, flat-footed 14
*Base Attack/Grapple:* 	+7/+4
*Attack*: 	Spear +9 melee (1d6+2/×3) or bite +8 (1d4+1) and claws +3 (1d3+1)
*Full Attack:* 	Spear +9 melee (1d6+2/×3)  or bite +8 (1d4+1) and 2 claws +3 (1d3+1)
*Space/Reach:* 	5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* 	Breath Weapon 
*Special Qualities:* 	Darkvision 60 ft., light sensitivity
*Saves:* 	Fort +8, Ref +6, Will +7
*Abilities:* 	Str 12, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 9, Cha 16
*Skills:* 	Bluff +9, Climb +4, Concentration +5, Craft (trapmaking) +4, Hide +7, Jump +4, Listen +2, Move Silently +5, Profession (miner) +1, Search +4, Spot +2, Knowledge (arcana) +8, Swim +4
*Feats:* 	(Alertness), Improved Initiative, Dodge, Mobility, Spell Focus (Necromancy), Greater Spell Focus (Necromancy)
*Challenge Rating:* 
*Alignment:* 	Lawful evil
*Spells Known:* 6, 3/1
*Spells Per Day:* 6,6/5
*Possessions:* +1 Shortspear, +1 small leather armor

First From the Forest’s typical tactic is to cast _spider climb_ if he is threatened into melee, and then to soften up his opponents with his _blindness_ spells. He will attempt to put his kobold warriors between him and himself to buy himself some time. First From the Forest has a toad familiar.

*Spells Known:* *0 –* _acid splash_, _arcane mark_, _detect magic_, _detect poison_, _light_, _read magic_; *1st –* _grease_, _ray of enfeeblement_, _true strike_; *2nd – * _acid arrow_, _blindness/deafness_, _ghoul touch_, _fog cloud_, _spider climb_

*Light Sensitivity (Ex):* Kobolds are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a _daylight_ spell.

*Skills:* Kobolds have a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.

*Breath Weapon (Su):* First From the Forest can breath a cone of corrosive gas which extends out to 30 feet. The breath weapon deals 2d8 points of acid damage. The Reflex save DC is 13.


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## der_kluge (Sep 29, 2006)

*Dragon Speaker, Ade6*
*Size/Type:  	Small Humanoid (Reptilian)
Hit Dice: 	6d6+6 (27+ hp)
Initiative: 	+6
Speed: 	30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 	14 (+1 size, +2 Dex, +1 natural), touch 13, flat-footed 11
Base Attack/Grapple: 	+3/-1
Attack: 	Spear +3 melee (1d6/×3)
Full Attack: 	Spear +3 melee (1d6/×3)
Space/Reach: 	5 ft./5 ft.
Special Qualities: 	Darkvision 60 ft., light sensitivity
Saves: 	Fort +4, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: 	Str 10, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 15, Cha 13
Skills: 	Concentration +7, Craft (trapmaking) +8, Profession (miner) +4, Heal +6, Knowledge (arcana) +6 , Knowledge (Dungeoneering) +6, Listen +4, Spellcraft +6, Spot +4
Feats: 	(Alertness), Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Leadership
Challenge Rating: 5
Alignment: 	Lawful evil
Spells Per Day: 3,3/2

Dragon Speaker has a weasel familiar.

Light Sensitivity (Ex): Kobolds are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

Skills: Kobolds have a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.*


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 29, 2006)

Blah, sorry. 

Dragon Speaker needs Spell Focus so that she can better overcome the dragon's spell resistance to heal, unless a dragon can voluntarily lower spell resistance. (Which I think that they could.)


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## der_kluge (Sep 29, 2006)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Blah, sorry.
> 
> Dragon Speaker needs Spell Focus so that she can better overcome the dragon's spell resistance to heal, unless a dragon can voluntarily lower spell resistance. (Which I think that they could.)





You mean Spell Penetration?


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## Ilium (Sep 29, 2006)

From the SRD:


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> A creature can voluntarily lower its spell resistance. Doing so is a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity. Once a creature lowers its resistance, it remains down until the creature’s next turn. At the beginning of the creature’s next turn, the creature’s spell resistance automatically returns unless the creature intentionally keeps it down (also a standard action that does not provoke an attack of opportunity).



So you can lower spell resistance voluntarily, but it's not something you'd want to do in combat.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 29, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> You mean Spell Penetration?



You're right. Bad brain day. It's election season and I'm overwhelmed on the job here. It's likely a moot point unless the dragon's counting on having an adept heal him while in combat (unlikely).


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## der_kluge (Oct 1, 2006)

Scribble - do you have a real name?  What do you want your contributor tag to say?


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## der_kluge (Oct 2, 2006)

Whizbang, same for you, let me know how you want your contributor line to read.


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## der_kluge (Oct 2, 2006)

And Ilium, please...


And anyone else I've not gotten to yet.


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## KB9JMQ (Oct 17, 2006)

Just a bump from an anxious reader wondering on the status of this


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## Ilium (Oct 17, 2006)

I shouldn't answer for der_kluge, but I will anyway.   He's running a playtest right now over at the circvs.  Pretty cool.  The PCs have just gotten over the painted bridge and utterly failed to be stealthy going down the slope to area 6.


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## Roger (Oct 17, 2006)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> What do you want your contributor tag to say?




"Roger Carbol" is fine by me.


Cheers,
Roger


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## der_kluge (Oct 20, 2006)

Yea - what Ilium said.

http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=10936

Though I neglected to incude one of the pit traps in my playtest.  D'oh!

Oh well.

They found the underwater tunnel in area 6, and the monk stripped down and swam up there, only to get freaked out a little when he found the will-o'-wisp in area 10.  He left, and they're calling that way "a death trap" now.    

They've since doubled back to 2a, and are currently trying to figure out what to do with a _fog cloud_ spell at the end of the hallway off area 2a.


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## Elephant (Nov 16, 2006)

Is there any further news on the cave?


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## der_kluge (Nov 16, 2006)

The playtest continues.

The players had a bit of fun with the kobolds, and ultimately let First From the Forest leave. The kobolds tactics were quite fun, and I intend to include some new ones in the writeup - including the use of _ghost sound_ to emulate a dragon's roar. The web spells, and a successful _blindness_ spell on the party spellcaster cost them some time and resources.

The party left, and tried sleeping in the chasm room (#2), but First From the Forest fled past, and they heard him. This freaked them out a bit, and they decided to sleep outside.

Well, of course the kobold went back and informed the dragon's about their presence, and the dragons have trashed their bridge across the chasm.

While sleeping outside, the rust monsters - which were not in room #1 when the party entered the dungeon, found them (because of the two sets of full plate armor in the group) and attacked. The knight lost his set of full plate +2, but they managed to defeat them before further damage was done. 

They went back in, had to find a more creative way across the chasm this time since the bridge was gone, and have just encountered one of the chokers in area #7, where it successfully attacked and grappled the gnome illusionist.

Stay tuned!


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Nov 16, 2006)

Hooray for the kobolds! That's exactly how I hoped they'd work out in practice.


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## der_kluge (Nov 28, 2006)

The PbP playtesters just found the dragon in area #8.

http://www.circvsmaximvs.com/showthread.php?t=10936&page=16

(thread #537)


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## Ilium (Jan 3, 2007)

@der_kluge: I'm not trying to nag, but how's the PDF coming along?  I'm looking forward to your additions and revisions, and I'm waiting to incorporate them in my Wiki version.


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## der_kluge (Jan 4, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> @der_kluge: I'm not trying to nag, but how's the PDF coming along?  I'm looking forward to your additions and revisions, and I'm waiting to incorporate them in my Wiki version.




The pdf is basically done. I can send it your way if you like.

I'm trying to figure out how to make it available. It's not as easy as it should be.


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## Ilium (Jan 16, 2007)

I never noticed this reply in my subscriptions page.  D'oh!

Yes please send it to me when you get a chance.  I will plunder transfer the text into my wiki format. 

As far as distribution, I think the first thing we could do is post it here on EN World.  Isn't there still a downloads area?  Other than that, maybe we could convince a small press to release it free via their regular channels if there's no cost to them.  I'm not sure how that works.

Thanks!


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## KB9JMQ (Jan 16, 2007)

Glad to see this didnt die in the water


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## Ilium (Jan 16, 2007)

If all else fails I'll stick it on my personal web page and let people download it until I hit my bandwidth limit.


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## Roger (Jan 16, 2007)

Cool; can't wait to see it.

Also:  Looks like we were ahead of the pack on our Chocker Sorcerer guy:  WotC's Choker Warlock.



Cheers,
Roger


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## der_kluge (Jan 18, 2007)

Guys, I'm really sorry this took as long as it has.  Turns out, it's not just a simple matter to upload free stuff to RPGNow. And the ENGS no longer exists.  You have to pay $40 and become your own publisher to upload stuff - for free.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's not economically viable.  

I'm going to speak with someone tomorrow about publishing this for me.  So, hopefully I can get some results from that.


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## KB9JMQ (May 16, 2007)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Guys, I'm really sorry this took as long as it has.  Turns out, it's not just a simple matter to upload free stuff to RPGNow. And the ENGS no longer exists.  You have to pay $40 and become your own publisher to upload stuff - for free.  It doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out that that's not economically viable.
> 
> I'm going to speak with someone tomorrow about publishing this for me.  So, hopefully I can get some results from that.




So any updates on this fine venture ?


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## der_kluge (May 17, 2007)

Excuse me while I go dig a hole in the dirt, so I can put my head in there.

I don't have a lot of excuses.  I *have* the pdf, but there's no easy way to make it easily available. I know that sounds odd.

I was thinking about it recently.  I haven't forgotten about it. Maybe I'll email someone tonight about it.  hmmm.

Thanks for the bump.


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## mfrench (Jul 16, 2007)

Bump.


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## der_kluge (Jul 17, 2007)

mfrench said:
			
		

> Bump.




You'll be glad to know that this is in competent hands.  

That is, it's not in my hands. An actual-factual publisher has it, and will be making it available at some point in the near future.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 17, 2007)

Kickass. Looking forward to the further adventures of First from the Forest!


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## Flynn (Jul 17, 2007)

Nice work, everyone! So, is the PDF available somewhere for download?

EDIT: Oops, I should have read all the way before posting... looking forward to it.

Inquiring DMs Want To Know,
Flynn


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## Ilium (Jul 17, 2007)

Der Kluge: I was hoping for a finalized manuscript to put into my wikified format, as we discussed.  Would it be OK for me to have such a thing?  I can always wait for the PDF and do the old cut-and-paste shuffle, but now that there's a publisher involved I'm leery of stepping on anybody's toes.


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## der_kluge (Jul 18, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> Der Kluge: I was hoping for a finalized manuscript to put into my wikified format, as we discussed.  Would it be OK for me to have such a thing?  I can always wait for the PDF and do the old cut-and-paste shuffle, but now that there's a publisher involved I'm leery of stepping on anybody's toes.




The publisher is involved because, as it turns out, it's very difficult to give away free stuff.  Who knew?

When the time comes, I'll be happy to put you in touch with the publisher and you can discuss with them your plans.  I'm certain that they'll be open to the idea. I don't know why they wouldn't be.


As a side note, I've decided I've got kind of a knack for these kinds of dungeons. I've got a second one ready to be published, and I just need to work up a new map for a CC #2.  Any suggestions on terrain/theme?

I'd been working on an abandoned mine, complete with rail tracks in it.  I never finished it.


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## Slife (Jul 18, 2007)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> The publisher is involved because, as it turns out, it's very difficult to give away free stuff.  Who knew?




Bittorrent?


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## der_kluge (Jul 18, 2007)

Slife said:
			
		

> Bittorrent?




Well, ok, let me clarify.  It's difficult to give away free stuff and not incur a cost.

There has to be marketing involved. Sure, I could host the file on my site, but there's a problem - I don't have a site. So, I'd need a site. That's a cost. I could borrow someone else's site, but who's gonna find it? I could spend the rest of my life pointing people to my friend's site, but that's no fun.  So, The logical result is to use something like Your Games Now, or RPGnow, YGN has exclusivity rules - not just anyone can post files there, since it's a profit-sharing site. RPGnow has publisher start-up fees. So, I'd have to first become a publisher, publish the work, and pay a fee to that site, all to just give it away. No thanks.


See, it's not easy to give stuff away for free.


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## Mark CMG (Jul 19, 2007)

There is always the links section of EN World - http://www.enworld.org/links.php?


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## jmucchiello (Jul 19, 2007)

I'll give you space on my website if you like? I'm not going to make it a download at rpgnow (unless you send me the $10 free download fee*) but if webspace is all you need, I can give you webspace for a (hopefully) small download or even a series of downloads. I'd have to see the PDF first since I'll have to make sure you've got the legal stuff right but if that pans out I have the space and plenty of bandwidth.

* Ask me nicely and I may just pay that myself.


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## der_kluge (Jul 19, 2007)

If it's just the file you want, I don't see why I can't provide that.

It's not 100% complete, but it's damn close.  I believe the publisher will probably end up making quite a number of improvements to it.  So, when it becomes "publicly" available, be sure to download that version, too.


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## Asmo (Jul 19, 2007)

How long will it take for 4-5 players to finish this location? In real time? I know that my players at this point just wants to meet up once in a while for some killing and looting and nothing more.

Asmo


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 19, 2007)

Asmo said:
			
		

> How long will it take for 4-5 players to finish this location? In real time? I know that my players at this point just wants to meet up once in a while for some killing and looting and nothing more.



It's a slightly smaller than average dungeon. A few hours at most, more if the kobolds kick their non-scaly butts all over the map!


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## jmucchiello (Jul 19, 2007)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> If it's just the file you want, I don't see why I can't provide that.
> 
> It's not 100% complete, but it's damn close.  I believe the publisher will probably end up making quite a number of improvements to it.  So, when it becomes "publicly" available, be sure to download that version, too.



Oh, you have a publisher? Nevermind then. I thought you were still looking for one.

BTW, the "Requires the use of..." line must be 10pt or larger according to the d20 System Logo license. It looks a bit small to me on your cover.


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## der_kluge (Jul 19, 2007)

Asmo said:
			
		

> How long will it take for 4-5 players to finish this location? In real time? I know that my players at this point just wants to meet up once in a while for some killing and looting and nothing more.
> 
> Asmo





Probably 4-6 hours, if they don't screw around.

I would also recommend removing areas 5/11/12. That cuts out three large rooms and 3 unnecessary combat encounters.  That would definitely keep it to closer to 4 hours.


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## Asmo (Jul 21, 2007)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Probably 4-6 hours, if they don't screw around.




Oh, they WILL screw around, I´m sure of it 
These guys..well, you really don´t know what´s going to happen when you have them at your table.

Asmo


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## der_kluge (Jul 23, 2007)

Asmo said:
			
		

> Oh, they WILL screw around, I´m sure of it
> These guys..well, you really don´t know what´s going to happen when you have them at your table.
> 
> Asmo





I ran it Saturday with Bento, DannyAlcatraz, and two other non-ENWorlders.

The rust monsters in area 1 didn't appear.  So, that took out some time.

I cut off everything past the kobold's lair.  That saved a huge amount of time.

It still took almost 4 hours to the nose. It ended in a draw.  The dragons really gave them a run for their money, and I took the life of one PC. Technically, the PCs won since the dragons had to retreat, but where sitting targets in their underwater lair (which the PCs never found). 

But I run a VERY fast-paced game. If the game doesn't continue to move at a brisk pace, it could easily take 6 hours to run.


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## der_kluge (Jul 23, 2007)

Some thoughts from the playtest:

It's amazing how paranoid players can be over mundane pools of water!    

Party went in, and absent any sort of rogue, sprang every trap in the fork. The kobolds, once again, really gave them a run for their money. First From the Forest tossed up his spider climb immediately upon hearing the alarm, and hid on the ceiling. Through the fog cloud, no one could see him, and he proceeded to cast _blindness_ spells EVERY round until he was out of 2nd level slots. Unfortunately, everyone made their save, and I targeted every character at least once. Then he breathed acid, and that really freaked them out, and so went the _resistance from acid_ spells. Once they figured out where he was, he was toast.  The party got slowed up pretty well with a _web_ spell, but it's hard to stop a 9th level party, so it was just a matter of time that they were doomed. They put up a sound fight, though.

Proceeding back towards the main area, they decided the water was basically death in disguise and set about hammering some pitons into the wall to tie ropes onto. Of course, this sound could be heard through the entire dungeon, and the dragon knew they were coming at this point. All attempts at stealth were gone. The party never discovered the underwater tunnel.

The chokers in area 7 put up a decent fight, but one of the characters had a reach weapon, which proved too much for them. They fought valiently, but couldn't hide from the reach weapon very easily. 

The dragon battle last MANY rounds - way more than I had expected. The elf fighter/magic user cast _fly_ and was able to get to the dragon, but it promptly grappled him and tossed him in the water, where the second dragon was waiting. He was grappled, but activated some boots of dimension door and got back to safety. The party knight was really stymied by his inability to really *get* to the dragon - which took full advantage of the difficult terrain to hamper his opponents.  I also rolled a "1" on just about every dragon breath refresh rate, so I was breathing acid on them just about every other round. But, they managed to get some protection from acid spells on about everyone, so for most it wasn't much of a problem.

In the end, I think it was just a nearly perfectly balanced encounter. It's challenging (the fighter/magic user ended up dying when the dragon scored a crit on an AoO), but not impossible.  A very difficult battle, but one that I think will challenge a seasoned party.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jul 23, 2007)

I went through this thing...and had a blast!

Kluge had been rolling hot all day- first in Bento's True20 game in the morning, and later in this thing.

One major factor was also a result of statistically odd die rolls- the party members with the least HP were the ones who were getting hit hardest and the most often.  The only spell that even slowed down my PC was the web.

My PC waded into combat to take on the dragon that had our mage and still only took 30HP of damage (the acid resistance helped, but she had evasion anyway- other BW blasts before the acid resistance spell did nothing to slow her down).

The guy playing the straight Knight- one of the owners of Generation X games (and thus our Host)- spent most of the dragon fight chasing the beasties.  They wouldn't sit still and "fight like men," much to his chagrin.

As far as the challenge of the final encounter goes, I'd have to say that it was balanced against a smallish party run by players in a one-shot.  Players who have run their PCs for months wouldn't make some of the tactical mistakes I know we did.  All other events being unchanged, my forgetting to use my PC's abilities to their fullest actually cost us an outright victory and indirectly caused the death of the Ftr/Mage...My forgotten damage bonuses to my last successful attack were exactly equal to the amount of HP the dragon had after the Ftr/Mage hit him with a spell and when he subsequently critted the Ftr/Mage.  

Players who have been playing the same PCs for months probably wouldn't make mistakes like that.

OTOH, they'd have to go through the whole cave...


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