# Smite Evil - This Can't Be Right



## Falling Icicle (Jul 25, 2010)

Last night our group ran up against a horned devil. Our party is all 11-12th level, and we were having great difficulty fighting this thing. Most of our sorcerer's spells and my wizard's failed to get through its high SR and saves. We didn't even bother trying to nuke the thing with blasts, since we assumed that, as a powerful devil, it would be highly resistant if not immune to most elements. Nobody in the group has a holy weapon, so our fighter types barely even scratched it with its DR.

So then I get the idea to summon a Celestial Dire Tiger. Looking at the celestial template, i notice it has the Smite Evil ability. Cool, I thought, maybe that would allow it to get through the devil's DR and deal some decent damage before dying. Well, then we look at the Smite Evil rules and ... wow. The Dire Tiger adds +28 damage (twice its HD) to EVERY attack because the creature is a devil AND completely ignores its DR. So I roll the attacks, and 3 claws (our bard was kind enough to hold action and caste haste on my summon as soon as it appeared), a bite, and 2 rake attacks hit. I end up doing over 200 points of damage to the devil, killing it.

Our entire group was speachless. We read and reread the smite evil rules to be sure we were doing it correctly. I mean, there's just no way this could be right. If we understand it correctly, it's such a horrendously overpowered and cheesy ability I feel dirty for even using it. One summon with one special attack shouldn't make an encounter go from perilous for a 6 person party to easy as pie, should it?

Tell me we're reading Smite Evil wrong. Please. I've been pretty impressed with the relatively well balanced changes to Pathfinder so far, but this new Smite Evil is just... insane.


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## IronWolf (Jul 25, 2010)

Smite Evil was errata'ed.  You can get the errata from here:

http://paizo.com/store/downloads/pathfinder/pathfinderRPG/v5748btpy88yj


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## Alzrius (Jul 25, 2010)

Falling Icicle said:


> The Dire Tiger adds +28 damage (twice its HD) to EVERY attack because the creature is a devil AND completely ignores its DR.




It's that "EVERY" that's the insane part. As per the latest round of errata to the Core Rulebook and Bestiary, a smite evil does 2 points of damage per level to evil outsiders, evil dragons, and undead only on the FIRST successful attack. After that it's just a damage bonus of 1 point per level.


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## Falling Icicle (Jul 25, 2010)

Ah, ok, the errata makes it a bit more reasonable. But wouldn't it still be adding +14 damage (1x its HD) to every attack after that?


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## Alzrius (Jul 25, 2010)

Falling Icicle said:


> Ah, ok, the errata makes it a bit more reasonable. But wouldn't it still be adding +14 damage (1x its HD) to every attack after that?




Yeah, plus its Charisma bonus on the attack rolls. It's single-target focused, and limited per day...but when in use, it can really mess up an enemy.


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## Crothian (Jul 25, 2010)

For summoned creatures like this I can see it being way powerful.


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## Kaisoku (Jul 25, 2010)

The Smite Evil that the celestial template gives is different from the Paladin's smite ability.



> *Special Attacks* smite evil 1/day as a swift action (adds Cha  bonus to attack rolls and damage bonus equal to HD against evil foes;  smite persists until target is dead or the celestial creature rests).



If it were the Paladin ability, it would say "as a paladin", similar to how creatures with the evasion ability might say "see rogue", etc.

For a direct example, the Half-Celestial template (which is a more powerful template), has a different text:



> _Smite Evil (Su)_: Once per day as a swift action the  half-celestial can smite evil as a paladin of the same level as its Hit  Dice. The smite persists until the target is dead of the half-celestial  rests.



So for the Celestial template (such as with a Summoned monster), it only grants a damage bonus equal to HD, no double damage ever (for outsiders, dragons or undead).

It's still a lot, +14 damage per attack until that creature dies. It doesn't bypass DR though (unless the natural weapons being treated as good is sufficient, no cold iron or silver though), and it's only 1/day for that summoned creature, so it can't lay into a group of devils like this.
Still a really good use of a summon monster spell. If you don't have an align weapon spell on hand, it's the next best thing (possibly better depending on the situation).

And Dire Tigers/Lions are the kings of burst damage, with pounce, grab and rake abilities granting a devastating "first strike" charge. It's a good animal choice for summoning... likely to get a full attack in even if it's gets killed off really quick.
I mean.. it'd probably have done over 120 damage even without the extra damage you were counting. It's depending on multiple attack rolls and a CMB check for grabbing, but it's quite a bit of damage. It might have been less than that though if the devil had a DR needing a material type as well (good AND silver, for example, instead of OR).


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## Psychotic Jim (Jul 25, 2010)

Alzrius said:


> It's that "EVERY" that's the insane part. As per the latest round of errata to the Core Rulebook and Bestiary, a smite evil does 2 points of damage per level to evil outsiders, evil dragons, and undead only on the FIRST successful attack. After that it's just a damage bonus of 1 point per level.




Is that the first successful attack period or the first successful attack in a round?


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## Volaran (Jul 25, 2010)

+1 to what Kaisoku said.

We have used summoned celestial creatures to this effect in my campaign as well.  We have house-ruled that their smite bypasses DR/good, but not any other type of DR.


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## Volaran (Jul 25, 2010)

Psychotic Jim said:


> Is that the first successful attack period or the first successful attack in a round?






			
				The PRD said:
			
		

> If the target of smite evil is an outsider with the evil subtype, an evil-aligned dragon, or an undead creature, the bonus to damage on the first successful attack increases to 2 points of damage per level the paladin possesses




So, it is the first successful attack.  Misses don't drain the ability, but after one successful hit, they are back to standard smite damage.


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## Hunter In Darkness (Jul 25, 2010)

Kaisoku is correct it does not gain the paladin's smite evil but the smite evil monster ability.


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## IronWolf (Jul 25, 2010)

Hunter In Darkness said:


> Kaisoku is correct it does not gain the paladin's smite evil but the smite evil monster ability.




Agreed.


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## Jeff Wilder (Jul 25, 2010)

Just as a side note, the Smite Evil already having been discussed, note that the Celestial Dire Tiger does have an SR of 14.  An 11th or 12th level caster won't have much chance of failing to get through with _haste_ or other buffs, but there's a small chance.  There's also a saving throw.

The SR can be voluntarily lowered by the creature as a standard action, but that needs communication.  The save can likewise be voluntarily failed (which doesn't take any time), but a DM could put reasonable limitations on that, too.

(Me, I'd require some means of communicating intent to the creature, or even an Intelligence check by the creature.  Spellcraft would work, too, and maybe Sense Motive.)

But anyway, yeah, when it comes to whoop-ass on an evil outsider, dire tigers are grrrrrREAT!


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