# [ooc] Kore | Kingdom of Harmony [terminated]



## doghead (Apr 1, 2004)

Kore | Kingdom of Harmony is a 3.5 dnd/gng homebrew feudal japan analogue.

Update - 22 July '04.

Game terminated.

*CONTENTS*

Introduction - below
Overview - below.
Character Classes - Post #2
Races - Post #2.

*INTRODUCTION*

This game is based on an earlier game of the same name that I ran for a while last year. See below for the IC and OOC threads for that game.

dnd homebrew - kore | kingdom of harmony :: ic :: ooc​
I will be using  Ken Hood's  Grim and Gritty Revised rules for a number of reasons. Primarily as they eliminate the much of the disparity between low and high level characters caused by the steady increase in HPs. High level characters will still generally trounce low level ones, but no fight will be a safe one. And avoid big monsters.

There will be, _initially_, no arcane spellcasters, only divine ones. Magic will be less common, but basically the same as per the 3.5 rules. 

Starting level will be 4th. Max Starting wealth. Max of half on one item.

The material is still very much in the working stages, but I want to get started. Plus, getting it up allows me to pick your brains for ideas.

Regarding the terminology. Basically, I just raided a dictionary. Those who speak Japanese will probably be horrified by some of my choices and grammatical abominations. Sorry. Those who don't might find the terms a little hard to get their head around. Feel free to use the original terms.

the head of the dog

*OVERVIEW | KINGDOM OF HARMONY *

*Kingdom of Harmony | The Beginning*

Each day the Sun rose from the unbroken sea in the east and travelled across the sky til settling for the night in the mountains of the west. Each day, he dipped his great coral sword into the ocean waters as he passed and withdrew it without a splash as he neared the coast. But one day, distracted by the beauty of the reflections from the waves, he didn't notice the approaching coast til the last moment. This time, when he pulled his sword from the seas, four drops of water fell back into the waters forming the islands of the kingdom. Later, when the world had settled, man came to the islands and sun god visited the greatest of them and said, "These are my lands, and you will be my Emperor."

*Kingdom Of Harmony | History*

The people of the kingdom trace a line of Emperors from the first that spans a 1000 years.

Over that time there have been threats to the Emperor's rule of the four islands. But none so sever as that of the Horde, some 250 years ago. The Horde came out of the cold plians that lie to the north and east of the Middle Kingdom. They swept across the Middle Kingdom to the eastern shores, sweeping all before them. From there their gaze fell upon the Kingdom of Harmony across the narrow sea between the two kingdoms.

One of the people to flee before the Horde were the Yanagi. 17 tribes crossed the waters seeking shelter and security in the Kingdom of Harmony. While amny saw this as the beginning of the end, the Emperor saw it as an opportunity. He appointed a Shogun and commanded her to allow the Yanagi to land under one condition, they join the soldiers of the Kingdom of Harmony in defending the islands' shores. This they did and so the Yanagi came to the Kingdom of Harmony.

The decades after the battle with the Horde were difficult and turbulent ones. But they were also formative. Relations with the Yanagi were often tense and strained, and often errupted into fighting. Many Daimyo resented the rights given to the Yanagi and there was significant internal conflict amoung them. In the space of 20 years there were three uprisings. Lawlessness and banditry were rampant. Into this mix stepped the Kyogin. Upset at the increased raiding of their mountain homes, they marched out onto the plains to give a little back.

Once again, where the people saw trouble and strife, the Emperor saw opportunity. He offered the Kyojin a commission - to build roads from Kyoto to the far reaches of the Kingdom. For this, and for keeping and repairing the roads he offered rice and coin. But more importantly, he offered them security. Few would dare to attack those working for the Emperor. There are few more skilled in working with stone than the Kyogin, and the roads that they built were broad and smooth. The Kyogin commision still stands. The Kyogin repair and maintain the Imperial roads, and every third year their representatives travel to the Imperial castle to receive their payment.

The Yanagi he commissioned to protect the road works. In return, they received the right to claim land along the roads for their tents and animals. While this commision expired with the completion of the roads, the land remains, free of any building or obstructions, for the use of the tribes to camp as they wish.

After the Horde had withdrawn, the surviving tribes of Yanagi were dispersed around the 4 islands. 

*Kingdom Of Harmony | Setting*

The Kindom of Harmony is ruled by the Emperor from his castle in Kyoto. The lands are ruled by the Daimyo from theirs. There are over 100 Daimyo. A powerful Daimyo may rule a prefecture or even several. Or have political clout that reaches from one end of the islands to another. A lesser Daimyo may battle with several others to keep control of his share of a prefecture, and rule only as much as he can control by force.

On occasions, when the Kingdom is threatened, the Emperor may appoint a Shogun with broard military powers to deal with the threat. But this is not a permenent or hereditory position. The title lasts only as long as the Emperor deems that it is necessary.

*Kingdom Of Harmony | Religion*

Religion | Introduction

The original beliefs of the people of the Kingdom of Harmony were animalistic and occult. The fates of man were controlled by the the powers of nature and the spirits of the animals and the dead. Fickle, capricious and sometimes malicious, these forces had to be appeased through offerings and worship. 

However, centuries ago, the concept of heaven was brought to the Kingdom from the Middle Kingdom and the southern lands. Heaven was placed above all else, and through piety and purity, man could achieve enlightenment and assension to divinity.

The spirits of the ancestors became the intermediarys between man and the incomprehensable and indifferent forces of harmony that were heaven. Over time, numerous different variations of the original teachings developed, each with their own perspective and emphasis. 

Religion | A rough guide

The Godhead created everything, is everything. So the wise know.

The nature of the Godhead is divided into 9 Aspects (ie: the Domains). Each Aspect is represented by a single kanji character. Thoughout the Kingdom, there are hundreds of sects each emphasising two or three different Aspects of the Godhead as the principle means to purity. Each sect uses the relevent characters as their symbols of power.

Game Note: While the Aspects of Evil, Chaos, Death and Magic are considered to be intergral elements of the Godhead, the teaching of them is not permitted in the Kingdom of Harmony. Study of these Aspects is undertaken but only under the Emperor's control. This is not common knowledge.

Sects incorporating the Aspect of War and/or that of Law are traditionally the most well supported by the Houses of the Kingdom, their principle teachings neatly coinciding with the interests of the Houses and Shogunate - legitimacy and power. The School of War and Law is one of the most powerful Schools in the Kingdom, being the official School of a number of Houses.

Religion | The school of War and Stength

While not politically well supported, the School of War and Strength is one of the most widespread, having gained an extensive following amoung the soldiers of the Houses. The School of War and Stength has small temples across the country. The school is very careful to limit its attention to the concerns of the individual warrior, deliberately avoiding getting involved at a political level. This policy has allowed it to coexist harmoniously alongside whatever School is officially supported by the Lord of the district.

House Oe, while officially supporting another Church, has always treated all Schools with great respect, but this one in particular, recognising its importance to its warriors. Indeed, House Oe is rather unusual in that there are a number of different Schools represented in its District.

*Kingdom Of Harmony | Currency*

The coins of the Kingdom are small flat rectangles.
EP = Gold piece
PP = Silver piece
GP = Iron piece
SP = Tin piece
CP = Copper piece

*Kingdom Of Harmony | Samurai clothing*

A summary of material from here. 

_As may be expected, the basic clothing item in a samurai's 'everyday' wardrobe was the kimono, which for men normally consisted of an outer and inner layer. Heavier kimonos were worn in the winter, while lighter examples (those made of finer silk, for instance) were worn in the summer.

Beneath the kimono, a loincloth (fundoshi) was worn[.]

Footwear generally consisted of sandals (waraji) and wooden clogs (geta). Sandals were made from various sorts of material, including straw, hemp, and cotton thread. Clogs were generally associated with the lower classes ... though samurai wore them from time to time. 

For rainy days, samurai, like everyone else, wore raincoats made out of straw (kappa) and availed themselves of folding umbrellas ...

Between the 12th and 17th Century, the hitatare style of dress was popular. Unlike the common kimono, hitatare was a two-piece costume, though comparably flowing and ample (Yoroi hitatarewas a snugger version for use under armor). This costume, for a possible frame of reference, is what most of the samurai wear in Japanese movies set prior to the Edo Period (the oft-mentioned Kagemusha, Ran, Throne of Blood, Heaven and Earth, ect…). Generally worn when in some 'official' capacity, the hitatare were normally adorned with the crest (or mon) of their immediate family or clan, or, in the case of relatives or direct retainers of the lord, the crest of the daimyô or shugo._

Some images can be found here:
Samurai Family Crests (Mon)
Samurai Banners


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## doghead (Apr 1, 2004)

*Classes and Races*

Kore | Character Classes

*KORE | CLASSES*

As mentioned before, this is a working outline. Other options are possible. Forexample, a straight Rogue/Expert could be taken if you wanted to create a more conventional 'rogue' type.

*Classes | Descriptions*

Anzen na Michi (lit. safe ways or paths) 
- Ranger/NPC* gestalt. 
Centuries ago, the Emperor gathered together a collection of woodsmen, ronin and bandits and created the Rangers (Anzen na michi; lit. safe ways) . These he charged with the keeping the roads and mountain passes of the Kingdom clear of danger. The Anzen have command centers in most of the main cities.

Barbarian
Default for Yanagi and The Horde. There are no human Barbarians in the Kingdom of Harmony.

Bozu/Ama (lit. Buddist priest male/female) 
[note: Bokushi refers to a western priest. whoops.]
- Cleric/NPC* gestalt.
There are no gods as such, just sects of the godhead. Each sect favours two Aspects (Domains). See the section on Religion in the Overview for more details.

Druid
- Druid/NPC* gestalt.
These are the Taoist/Shinto monks - dedicated to the old animalistic faith. Their numbers are small, but through an informal alliance with the rangers, they have secured themselves a fairly secure powerbase.

Monk 
- Monk/NPC gestalt.
Monks are esthetic versions of the Bozu, but who persue entightenment through personnal physical mastery. They break down into three main scholls or ryu: Mystic (Adept), Scholastic (Expert), and Warrior (Warrior) [with thanks to TH]

Ninja
- Rogue/Adept gestalt.
The ninja are essentially elite mercenaries. There are several 'stables' or 'clans'. Despite their dark reputation, their loyalty to their employers (generally the Daimyo) is generally unquestioned. Its a matter of sound business practice. Get a bad reputation and you won't get any patronage. Ninja are trained from an early age, and remain part of the organisation for life. 

Omishiranu (lit. honourable unknown person, stranger) 
- Bard/NPC* gestalt

Samurai
- Fighter/NPC* gestalt.
Samurai are expected to be knowledgable in a variety of fields. These would include things like poetry, caligraphy, religion, nobility, agriculture and warfare. While not all are, those who aren't would be considered somewhat uncouth by those who are.

* Excluding the Adept. The Adept is not available for classes have spellcasting ability.



*KORE | RACES*

This is a basic outline of how the different races fit into the picture. Its all pretty rough at the moment, but I thought I'd get it up now to see what people think.

Essentially, I have sought to keep the changes, particularly in terms of the stats, to a mimimum. This is in line with my overall philosophy to keep the conversion as simple as possible. This minimises the learning stage, as well as helps prevent any unexpected balance issues popping up. I have changed the names basically to help keeep the feel of the game Japanese. 

*RACES | CHARACTER RACES*

*Humans*

Human Racial Traits: As per the 3.5SRD Human.

*Ishijin [Dwarves; lit. stone people]*

Ishijin Racial Traits: As per the 3.5SRD Dwarf.

Ishijin translates to 'people of the stone'. It is the name that humans use for them. The name by which they call themselves they keep to themselves. The Ishijin were in the mountains long before humans arrived on the islands. It is said that the first Ishijin were born of stone belly of those mountains and their appearnace suggests this. Their skin is usually a redish brown or grey colour.

The Ishijin have always kept the race of man at arms length, roughly rebuffing any attempts to penetrate the mountain depths or learn the Ishijin's ways of working metal and stone. The Ishijin are the only ones with the ability to mine and work coldiron. Centuries ago, when relations were much better, the Ishijin forged coldiron katanas for the Samurai of the time. 512 of these weapons were believed to have been made over a period some 60 years. 307 of these swords survive, according to the current records.

*Kobito [Halfling; lit. pygmy or dwarf]*

Kobito Racial Traits: As per the 3.5SRD Halfling except for;
:: +2 racial bonus on to hit rolls with all ranged weapons (this replaces the +1 racial bonus on attack rolls with thrown weapons and slings).

Kobito inhabit the fringes between the forested mountains and the plains. The live in small villages nestled into unobtrusive valleys. They are not an aggresive people and are adept at avoiding detection. If forced into a fight, they prefer to do so from afar. 

Both Lightfoot and Tallfellows varieties exist.

*Yanagi [Orcs; nonsense word]*

Yanagi Racial Traits: as per the 3.5SRD Orc with the excetion/addition of:
:: Night Vision out to 60'. This replaces the Darkvision. Yanagi do not suffer from Light Sensitivity.
:: Racial bonus: +2 to Intimidate.
:: Default Class: Barbarian.

The original 19 tribes of the Yanagi came to the shores of the Kingdom of Harmony after being swept from their own lands by the Horde. There, on the shores of the Kingdom with the waves still lapping around their ankles, they struck up bargain. In return for their help in defending those very shores from the Horde, they would be granted the right to stay. 14 tribes survived to claim that right, although 5 of these had less than a dozen members at that time. But with its own armies having been nearly broken in the effort to repulse the Horde, the Kingdom was in no position to renege on its bargain. But the tribes were spread over the 4 islands and forbidden from gathering in one place. 3 tribes went to {hokkaido}. 5 to {honshu}. 4 to {kyushu} 2 to {shikoka}.

Yanagi are nomadic by nature. They are physically very strong, but not given to analytical thinking, nor have the patience for diplomacy. They can be short tempered and factious. But they are extemely capable warriors. Most Daimyo work to maintain cordial relations with the tribes in their area. If only to prevent them from joining their rivals. The tribes have often taken service with one Daimyo or another as mercenaries, and have on a number of occasions tipped the balance of the battle.

Each tribe consists of several clans, and it is in clans that they travel with almost everthing they own carried on the backs of the huge shaggy oxen that they favour. All able bodied members of the clan participate in the hunting that they do to supplement their diet, as well as the protection of their animals. The raiding of each others herds is a longstanding tradition amoung the tribes.

The Shaman is the the most significant individual in Yanagi culture, and their person is sacrosanct. Killing one will result in the Yanagi putting aside all differences and joining forces to hunt down and kill the killer. In one such case, there was a battle between two Daimyo, each employing Yanagi warriors from two different tribes. A reckless Samurai cut down a Shayman in a fit of anger. The warriors from both tribes immediately ceased fighting and set about trying to get to the Samurai. The battle turned into one between Yanagi and Samurai, with the Samurai driven back into the nearby castle. Ultimately, the Samurai who had killed the Shayman committed Seppuku in order to avoid plunging the whole island into war with the Yanagi.

They are night creatures, but have little interest in the what lies underground.

*RACES | SAVAGE SPECIES*

*Kodokujin [Trolls; lit. lonely, solitary people]*

Kodokujin Racial Traits: as per the 3.5SRD Troll.

Kodokujin inhabit the mountains, like the yamajin. They are, however, and elusive and deeply perplexing race. While generally considered violent and dangerous, tales are told of trolls committing acts of great compassion and demonstrating great wisdom. They are also capable of some of the most beautiful stonework known in the Kingdom as well as crafting weapons and armour out of raw stone that are superior to those forged of iron. The Shogun wears a suit of stone armour forged centuries ago that is said to have been granted to him by the lord of the trolls herself.

*Kyojin [Giants; lit. giant person]*

Koyamajin [Hill Giants; lit. small mountain people]

Koyamajin Racial traits: as per the 3.5 SRD Hill Giants.

Yamajin [Stone Giants; lit. mountain people]

Yamajin Racial Traits: as per the 3.5SRD Stone Giants.

*Mori [Ogres; lit. Forest/grove]*

Mori Racial Traits: as per the 3.5SRD.

*The Horde [Drow]*

Racial Traits: As per the 3.5 SRD Drow with the following exceptions/additions:
:: +4 Dex, +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom. These replace the original Racial adjustments to attributes.
:: Lowlight vision out to 120 feet. This replaces the Darkvision.
:: Bonus Fighter Feat at 1st level. This replaces the spell like abilities.
:: Weapon Proficiency: The Horde are proficient in all simple and Martial weapons. 
:: Default Class: Barbarian or Sorceror.

The horde are cruel, ruthless, savage. Many amoung them are powerful sorcerors. The are widely feared and hated in the Kingdoms of Man - both the Kingdom of Harmony and the Middle Kingdom. Little is really known of them. However, tales from the the time of invasion tell that even a raging Yanagi will think twice about going up against the most ordinary warrior of the Horde.

It is rumoured that there is another branch of this race, one both gentle and compassionate. But no one has ever seen them, and if any of the other races know of the truth of this, they are not telling.

The Horde have no known presence in the Kingdom of Harmony.

Game Note: Gone out on a limb a bit more with these guys. Basically looking to create something more along the lines of the LotR elf, but less 'spacey'.

*??? [Goblins]*

Goblin Racial Traits: as per the 3.5SRD Goblin

Pretty much as is. Mountain dwellers.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 2, 2004)

Will you be using anything else from Sleeping Imperium?


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## doghead (Apr 2, 2004)

*Life in the Kingdom*

*TRAVEL BY LAND*

By far the the most important roads in the Kingdom are the Imperial Highways. There are four, fanning out from Kyoto, connecting the far reaches of the Kingdom to the centre. The Imperial highways are 3 _ken_* wide with a stretch of cleared land on either side where space permits, but in the mountainous regions they can narrow to little as 1 _ken_. Stone distance makers are placed every _ri_. Stations are placed along the road about every 7 _ri_ (one days walk). Every station has at least one Temple nearby. Every 30 _ri_ or so, there will be a government poststations, which also serve as checkpoints for monitoring and controlling traffic. Avoiding one, or failing to stop is a serious offence. Only messengers on official duties (for the Emperor or a Daimyo) may pass automatically pass through.

Trunk roads between cities may be likewise laid out with inns and checkpoints. Its within a Daimyos right to know who travels in his domain. Lesser roads and track between villages will have none of the amenties of their larger cousins. The extent to which they are patrolled will depend on the amount of resourses the Daimyo is will ing to commit to it.

* 1 ken = 2 yards, 1 ri = 2.4 miles.

*Customs*

It is usual to walk on the left. Groups may walk abreast, but generally, one gets out of the way of those stronger or more important than oneself. There is a general sence of comradery amoung traveller, and most travellers will great another with a nod.

Only the Emperor's highest officials ride in a carriage. These _horen_ are pulled by a single ox. Horses are generally only ridden by those on official duties and in times of war. Horses are however, commonly used as baggage animals. For those who do not wish to walk, there is the palaquin carried by two men. When being approached by one, particularly an elaborate one, common sence dictates that if you don't know you are more important than the passenger, you should step aside. A private _kago_ and bearers can often be found around rest stops and inns and rented for about 1 tin piece per _ri_. They are usually not enclosed, have only a simple shadecloth, and carry one person.

Armour is not usually worn while on the road. Doing so will see the wearer avoided by commoners, frowned upon by bushi and investigated by any samurai or Anzen na michi patrols. Armour is carried in a _gusokubitsu_, an armour box. This can be strapped to the back or carried on a pole over one shoulder. Full battle armour would require two men too carry the box comfortably. Weapons are carried, but sheathed. This includes spears, which are sheathed in paper mache or leather scabbards. Swords hilts are also usually covered with a cone of fabric. These steps serve to keep the weapon clean, but also to signify the bearer's peaceful intentions. Weapons that are difficult to bear are safe weapons.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 2, 2004)

Nothing, I just googled SI after reading GIG.  It's an amalgam setting of fuedal Japan in the far future.


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## doghead (Apr 2, 2004)

Didn't know that. Perhaps I should google-fu as well.


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## Mirth (Apr 2, 2004)

Here's a thread that has some more info about Ken Hood:

Sleeping Imperium 

Good luck!


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## doghead (Apr 2, 2004)

Thanks Mirth. 

The boards are running really slowly at the moment, so i probably check it out later. Doesn't look like i'm going to be needing it though ...

the head of the dog


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## shurai (Apr 2, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> I was reading the _gestalt_ guidelines in another thread. Given the nature of the gng rules, this _might_ be an option. The only reservation I have about it at the moment is social positions in this society are quite formalised. I am not sure how whether such mixed classes would fit in. An option would be to allow blending with an NPC class for better skills.




Doghead, in case you need or want some advice, I'm not an authority on medeival Japanese culture and society, but I am knowledgeable, probably moreso than the average gamer.

Depending on the period, the social classes didn't necessarily define what you knew how to do.  It's true that you needed certain minimal skills to be, for example, a male samurai during the Tokugawa shogunate, but there was really quite a lot of leeway.  Many samurai were clerks and administrators and only knew as much swordsmanship as necessary to avoid harming their reputation.  I'd suggest that many of them would be most accurately translated into pure Bards or Experts, especially given the samurai propensity towards perfection of fine arts like calligraphy, painting, poetry, dance, and music.

Anyway, don't mean to lecture; it's your campaign of course.  : ]

(See you in the Sphere!)

-S


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## doghead (Apr 3, 2004)

Hey Shurai

Its a good point. Particularly towards the end of the Tokugawa period when knowing  about fashion and ettiquette than probably more usfull for surviving in the shogun's court. And so the 47 ronin. I suppose it was the idea of the fighter/rogue or fighter/spellcaster that found difficulty visualising in the setting. The fighter/expert or fighter/aristocrat would fit in nicely.

the head of the dog


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## shurai (Apr 3, 2004)

The Fighter/Spellcaster thing would probably work in a world where magic actually works.  It was standard practice for a samurai to retire to the life of a buddhist priest, after all.  I think some samurai were shinto priests as well . . . but maybe that's all the tenchi muyo talking.  : ]  

As to the Fighter/Rogue:  I think it actually works pretty well in some ways too.  Some samurai were specially trained to be spies and assassins, remember.  The high reflex save and Evasion makes perfect sense for the samurai too, because Japanese swordsmanship and other military arts emphasized agility and movement of the body.  You can even make a case for Sneak attack in that it emulates the Japanese tendency to want to put everything into a surprisingly agressive attack.

Also, the rogue is remarkably flexible thanks to most of its power being in the skill points.  It's true that the samurai didn't often go in for stealth, but Hide and Move Silently only account for a quarter of the rogue's skill points anyway.  Say Shiro takes Diplomacy, Innuendo, Gather Information, Bluff, and perhaps either Tumble, Balance or some artsy skill like Perform or Craft.  Now he's got three left over for Sense Motive, Spot, and Listen for the famous samurai awareness.  Looks an awful lot like Shiro's a young retainer with a knack for high society and its intrigues, but assuming a couple levels of Fighter he's still got respectable skill with the sword, the all-important Ride skill, and a few feats to round things out.

Whoa, fighter/rogue seems to match that court-intrigue-style samurai really well, doesn't it?

-S


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## doghead (Apr 3, 2004)

Thanks for your time on this. It is really helping me to get it sorted. Your work up of the Fighter/Rogue gestault as Samurai makes a lot of sence. Mobility was prized, particularly as armour was not generally worn on a day to day basis. And while the sword was their signiture weapon, they were quite capable with a range of "covert" weapons. The metal fan being my particular favourite.

What concerns me is the differentiation of the classes. The Fighter/Rogue Samurai kinda gets it all. I was wondering how you would distinguish the Ninja from the Samurai. The Rogue/Fighter gestault as Ninja would provide minimal difference. While the ninja was capable with as sword, he was not, in  general, able to go toe-to-toe with a Samurai. 

I was thinking that a Fighter/Aristocrat or Expert gestalt as Samurai would provide the skill base for the social (and bureaucratic) aspect of their lives. Other elements could be accounted for with Feats.

The ninja cultivated the belief that they had "magical" powers through trickery and deception. Slightly submerged rocks placed across a body of water allowed them to "run on water". "Flash bombs" and prepared hidy holes allowed them to "dissappear". The Rogue/Adept gestalt as Ninja would provide a neat analogue for a world in which magic does infact exist.

~ just thinking aloud here ~

Then there are the Priests. Monks? Clerics? Both? 

Samurai > Fighter/Rogue
Ninja > Rogue/Sorcerer
Priest > Cleric/Monk

It could work but feels a little too condenced.

Samurai > Fighter/Aristocrat or Expert
Ninja > Rogue/Adept or Expert
Priest > Cleric/Aristocrat or Expert

I was thinking of including the Ranger as the martial arm of the Taoist (animalist) religion. The Toaist religion is in decline, having largely withdrawn to the mountains and forests. The Buddist's hold the sway in the cities. The two do not get along. Although they dislike each other, they don't dislike each other nearly as much as they dislike the different sects of their own faith. Conflict is common between sects.

Magic is the domain of the Emperor. All who weild it are bonded to him. I'm thinking of using Hong's "blood magic" for this - its very dark. 

Gotta dash. Thanks again.


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## doghead (Apr 5, 2004)

Ken Hood, author of the _Grim n Gritty rules, has just posted up a revised edition. For more information go to the House Rules Forum.

You can access a copy of the  Grim n Gritty Revised .pdf file here.

I haven't had a chance to look through them yet.

the head of the dog._


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## shurai (Apr 5, 2004)

I was just wondering, do you have a copy of the 3rd Edition Oriental Adventures?  It might just be exactly what you're looking for, although it sounds like you'll want to do some tweaking.

-S


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## doghead (Apr 6, 2004)

I don't have access to it. I read a little about it. I wasn't particularly taken by it, but without a good read, I couldn't really say.

At the moment I'm not planning to invest in an additional source material. It will be fairly straight forward setting conversion using essentially the basic rules. All in all, its a fairly neat match. 

But thanks for the heads-up. I'll have a look at it if it comes my way.

the heads-up dog


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## rangerjohn (Apr 7, 2004)

Just how much do you plan on using non-humans?  Those revised rules give zero chance vs. most monsters.  They do more damage in one round than anyone can have, and thier DR is more than a character can dish out.  This also means a high-level samurai has no chance vs. a high level ninja.  Sneak attack doing 4d6 +2 points for each addtional dice.


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## doghead (Apr 7, 2004)

Most of the main non-humans races wil be around - dwarves, elves, halflings as well as orcs, goblins, hobgoblins, ogres, and some giants. (As Ken's example shows, you don't want to go toe to toe with the big guys.) There will be some flavour variations to the races, but basically the same as in the SRD. 

I've always had my doubts about Sneak Attack being used in open combat. If this were possible, then everybody who lives by the sword would learn how to do it. I'm not sure about this one, I deal with it if it comes up.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 7, 2004)

Go toe to toe, thier only option is to run.  So I guess the giant rule the game, no one can oppose them.  Exept perhaps a mage if he got the drop on him.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 7, 2004)

Matter of fact, samurai is starting to look pretty pathetic.  Feats aren't near as powerful in this system.  Accept possibly toughness, and that would get boring.


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## doghead (Apr 7, 2004)

Actually, giants do rule in melee. Particularly if the smaller creatures approach a fight with larger ones with all the subtlety and sophistication of   this particular group . Thats one of the underlying principles of the gng system. Its designed to work that way. The rest of the linked thread above goes into it in more detail.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 8, 2004)

This just confirms my fears.  Especially, as I don't see a samurai wearing full plate.  As far as range when was the last time you saw a bow deal 16 points of damage with one arrow?


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## doghead (Apr 8, 2004)

Rangerjohn. 

It seems we have a difference of opinion. If I understand correctly, you feel that what the gng system sets out to do is a bad thing. I feel its a good thing. I have no interest in attempting to convince you to change your mind on the matter. I very much doubt that you will convince me to give up my interest in giving the gng system a try to check it out better.

the head of the dog.


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## DrZombie (Apr 8, 2004)

Hi, head of dog. The feared, wise-assed, and slightly mad DrZombie has discovered your attempt to start a game without him. Oh woe unto your bones. There will be wailing and gnashing of teeth. Old grandmothers will steal the gameboys of their grandchildren. Chickens will attack foxes and do unnatural acts of passion unto them. Poachers will be shot by angry bears, and their testicles will be inserted into bear traps. The world is doomed unless the great DrZombie allows you to ask him if he would please join your game. Hereby you have permission. .


This sounds interesting, but I've got a lot on my plate. Too much really. Too bad. Maybe I should... No, I'll be strong. Really. Honestly. Aaaah dangit, see how much interest you get. I'd be more than happy to fill out any missing spots, but I'll let some new blood get into PbM.


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## doghead (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey DrZ,

At the moment its just a toe in the water. All the interest so far seems to be in how I am going to set it up. Not sure if that will translate into an interest in playing.

I will be staring this game if enough people are interested. I really want to put the new gng system though its paces. 2-4 people would be enough. But nothing will be happening til May at the earliest. I've got alot of work on my hands at the moment (as well as a splitting headache  ). And then I am off for 2 weeks. I'm hoping be able to squeeze in some work on the setting between getting a tan, snorkling around the reefs and chilling out with a cold beer.

the head of the dog


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## rangerjohn (Apr 9, 2004)

A lot of the problem comes from it being easier to create a samurai as a rogue than a fighter in this system.  Do you really see samurai running around in full plate, the main advantage of the fighter in this system?


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## doghead (Apr 9, 2004)

Yeah, I don't really see anyone having access to the full plate armour. 

I am hoping that it is not the case that the rogue class will make a more effective "samurai" character than the fighter class would. But I am going to have to look at it more closely. I'm not all that familier with the ins and outs of 3.x. I'll probably have to rough out some characters and have a look.

From what's been discussed so far, the majority of the problem seems to lie with the Sneak Attack ability of the rogue. I've always been slightly dubious about the ability to use this ability on open combat. I am hoping to change as little as possible for a number of reasons. Not the least being simplicity. So perhaps just restricting when and where it can be used would be an adequet solution.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 10, 2004)

This is the best I have been able to do with a fighter.

Oops, just noticed, the second weapon focus should be weapon specialization, take at fighter 4.


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## rangerjohn (Apr 10, 2004)

Here is the corrected sheet.



Str 14 6
Dex 16 10
Con 15 8 +1 level
Int 12 4
wis 10 2
Cha 10 2
Total 32


Defense: 5+3Dex+2 defleciton+1Dodge+ =11 15 vs. attack of oppurtunity
Soak: 3 con +2 toughness+ 5 armor = 10 soak

Feats:
1stodge
Human: Toughness
Fighter1: Weapon Focus Katana
Fighter2: Toughness
3rd: Mobility
Fighter 4 Weapon Specialization Katana

B.A.B +5

Katana +5 +3 dex +1 Weapon Focus+1 masterwork=10  Damage 1-10 +5 + attack difference


Equipment:
Masterwork Katana  330
+2 ring of protection 4,000
+2 studded leather 4,000
Masterwork Mighty +2 Daikyu   +9 attack 1-8+2 + attack difference 300


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## DrZombie (Apr 10, 2004)

You said you might look at the Oriental Adentures... I've been tabletopping with'em, and the book's rather good, worth checking out.


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## doghead (Apr 10, 2004)

*Kore | Races*

Initial jottings on how the different races fit into the picture. Its all pretty rough at the moment, but I thought I'd put it up to see what people think. There is some material I need to collect/incorporate from the original game. While there are a number of basic similarities, the new version will probaly incorporate a wide range of races.

<snip>

Updated and transfered to the first page.


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## doghead (Apr 10, 2004)

rangerjohn.

Thanks for the fighter 'samurai' example. Full battle armour would probably be more like Banded (despite its max dex and mv penalties) I think. 

I'll try and get round to creating a rogue based one to compare asap.


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## doghead (Apr 12, 2004)

This are getting pretty busy in the lead up to going away, so I think that I am going to park this thread up for the time being. Feel free to post here, but I probably won't have time to check in on it til I get back.

Hopefully, I'll have a fair bit more background to put up in early May.

the head of the dog.


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## doghead (May 2, 2004)

*Now open for business*

I've changed the thread title and opened it for recruiting. Six slots seems like a good number. And I've forgotten to put in the character generation details ...   My brain hurts.

OK. 4th level. 4d6, select any three. If its less than 30 points, do it again if you wish, or just bring it up to that level. Average starting gold, max half on one item. Two pairs of socks minimum.

I've posted all the to date game information in the first couple of posts. While this does mean some initial clicking back and forth, it will save a lot of hunting around for stuff later.

the head of the dog


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## Cannibal_Kender (May 2, 2004)

Sounds interesting. Count me in if there's room.


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## doghead (May 2, 2004)

Thanks Cannibal. I hope it proves to be so.

For those of you not familier with the Gestalt character creation process, Creamsteak has an excellent description of it in his "Terror and Blasphemy" thread here. (This is how I found out about it.)

the head of the dog


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## DrZombie (May 2, 2004)

count me in, although it will take a few days (read : at least untill next weekend) untill I can come up with something


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## doghead (May 2, 2004)

Hey DrZ,

Don't sweat it. I suspect that its not going to be a 'hot item' game judging by the response to the thread when started. Character creation may also take a bit longer as we iron out any unexpected wrinkles.

the head of the dog


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## Rhia (May 2, 2004)

Actually, this system seems more complicated than I can do right now. Hehe. Sorry for taking up a post in this thread.  :\


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## DrZombie (May 3, 2004)

Hey doghead, what's this gestalt thinghy? Can I just take an inkyo monk or a regular one?


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## doghead (May 3, 2004)

Rhia said:
			
		

> Actually, this system seems more complicated than I can do right now. Hehe. Sorry for taking up a post in this thread.  :\




Yeah, I want my inch and half of thread space back!


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## doghead (May 3, 2004)

DrZombie said:
			
		

> Hey doghead, what's this gestalt thinghy? Can I just take an inkyo monk or a regular one?




The gestalt system basically involves ... oh hell. Give me a minute, I'll just pop over and copy Creamsteaks description ...



			
				Creamsteak said:
			
		

> As Gestalt is an OGL concept, I present it to you:
> 
> *Gestalt Characters*
> In this high-powered campaign variant, characters essentially take two classes at every level, choosing the best aspects of each. The process is similar to multiclassing, except that characters gain the full benefits of each class at each level. If the two classes have aspects that overlap (such as Hit Dice, attack progression, saves, and class features common to more than one class), you choose the better aspect. The gestalt character retains all apsects that don't overlap.
> ...




Basically I was looking for a simple way of creating a Samurai. The basic fighter provided a suitable base but lacked the depth of skills to refect the education and learning of a Samurai. Combining the Fighter with an Expert of Aristocrat seem to provide this without unduely altering the class balance. Combining a Rogue with an Adept seemed to generate a nice Ninja analogue.

While the monk has a fairly good skills set and point allocation (4+Int mod), combining the Monk with an Expert 10 skills of your choice and (6 +Int mod) will allow you to better  reflect their life of learning, or whatever. 

I'm not familier with the inkyo monk. I'd prefer to stick with the SRD Monk for a couple of reasons. Its available to everyone (including me). And I am interested to see how well the basic classes can be used to create a the setting without having to resort to significant rewriting.

the head of the dog.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 4, 2004)

I'm interested if there's still room.

Are the mentioned races the only allowed, and which of the races in the second post are "player" races.  E.g. I'm assuming players won't be horde members (insert sad face here).  Just wondering.  I'd love to play in this game, always liked oriental style.


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## doghead (May 4, 2004)

Hey Nac Mac Feegle

There are still a number of slots open. Available character races are Human, Ishijin (Dwarf), Kobito (Halfling), Yanagi (ork). There are no 'half' races - ie Halforcs.

gotta dash

cheers.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 4, 2004)

Okay, I think I know my character concept: Berserker Duelist.

I'm having fun with GnG, and realized that I'd lose nothing by essentially playing a rapier barbarian.  And plus, it's fun!

I'll post stats sometime tonight.  Where do you want them?


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## doghead (May 4, 2004)

A Berserker Duelist. Interesting. Do you mean a Yanagi (they are, by default, barbarians)? There aren't really any human barbarian tribes in the Kingdom. A Kobito barbarian could be a possibility. We'd have to work out some sort of background but, humm ... interesting.

I'm not sure about the Rapier. I don't even like it in 'western' settings as it was really a weapon of a much later period when firearms had largely made heavy armour obsolete. A rapier wouldn't do diddly against plate armour.

Anyway, post up a concept and we will see where we are.

the head of the dog.


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## Cannibal_Kender (May 4, 2004)

I'd like to play a human Anzen na Michi. That ok?


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## doghead (May 4, 2004)

Cannibal, that's fine.

The setting is still very much a work in progress. Here are some ideas I've been considering with regarding the Anzen.

There is an element of rivalry between the Anzen and the Samurai. While the Anzen acknowledge the reional authority of the Daimyos, and do take service with them at times, they hold that their true alliegance is to the Emperor directly (as opposed to the regional Daimyo as is the case for almost all others.)

From what I understand of feudal japan, the sword (katana) was traditionally reserved for the Samurai. In this game I think that the Anzen will also have the right to carry one. But I like the idea that many do not, prefering to make a clear distinction between themselves and the Samurai.

Let me know if you have any thoughts on the above or the Anzen in general. Your character could very well become the architype for the class.

the head of the dog.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 4, 2004)

Well, to answer point by point:

Firstly, I was planning to be human, and not be a "stereotypical" barbarian.

The stats I rolled with how I placed them would be

Str:16
Dex:18 (including +1 from 4th level)
Con: 14
Int: 15
Wis:11
Cha:11

So he's fast and smart as well as strong.  I'm spending several of my extra skill points to be literate in three languages.  I'm going more for the bloodlust idea, and character who can draw on manic reserves of strength in combat.

As to the rapier, I'd be fine switching it in regards to the era and location (suggestions for a light, piercing weapon would be nice), but I think it would be fairly good.  The thing is, in GnG revised, your to-hit also helps your damage, so a char dealing 1d6+7 damage (my char's raging damage) would be dealing 10.5 + however much he beat his opponent by, which would be enough to pierce most armors.  Also, I'm betting not everyone will wear full plate.  By the way, rapier was just the name I was giving it for lack of anything better.  Basically I'm just going for a light (for the duelist class it has to be old style finessable, so light, rapier, or thinblade) piercing weapon.

I'd also give this character maxed out ranks in craft (poisonmaking), many doses of poison, and a maybe blade using the Gehennan Morghuth-Iron stats (-1 to hit and dmg, all attacks are considered poisonous, DC 12, initial damage 1 dex, secondary 1d4 dex).  A layered dex/con poisoned blade would seriously decrease my opponent's defence and soak with a couple of light hits, allowing me to go further afterwards.

If that's okay, tell me where to post my character and I'm good to go.


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## doghead (May 5, 2004)

Nac,

I see where you are coming from now. The concept doesn't fit into the setting as developed so far, so I'm going to ask you to do some of the leg work on this one. Good thing that you have all that time on you hands.

Thoughts at this point. 

Given the japanese cultural emphasis on 'mastery', the Duelist is a nice fit with the Samurai type. So I think that it would be fine to allow the Duelist to use the katana. However, it has a preq of BAB +6, so it won't be available at this point. Given the combined class nature of the prestigue classes, I am going to take Creamsteak's advice and keep restrictions on their use quite tight. Level 5 minimum and can only be  combined with NPC classes. ie Duelist/Expert is fine. Duelist/Fighter isn't.

Like the Rapier, I find that the barbarian class can be problematic. 'Barbarian' represents a culture, not a skill set. One can be born a barbarian, or even become one by spending time amoung them. So I've always been dubious about the idea of just 'taking a level in barbarian'. Of course, barbarian in this setting doesn't have to be just a culture (although it is with the Yanagi and possibly the Kobito). We can just make it something else and rename it. So what I am looking for is some idea as to the context of the character/type. A more martial clan of ninja? A ancient (secret even) sect of warriors dedicated to the the old faith (as represented by the druids)? A reactionary sect/ warrior philosophy that emphasises 'loss of control' rather than the traditional 'self control' of conventional teaching. Some combination of the above. An import for the Middle Kingdom is also an option. The Middle Kingdom is much more vast than the Kingdom of Harmony, and much more diverse. But this also carries some potential for social stigma.

An alchemial option could also be a way to obtaining the 'rage' ability. Although it probably wouldn't be something you can pick up in a store. Again, some form of context would be needed. 

The Kingdom of Harmony is a fairly lawful society. My initial response is that weilding a poison weapon will be viewed very unfavourably. Using one in a duel with another person, particularly a Samurai would earn you a lot of emnity. It would also probably be considered dishonourable. A big thing in this world. I'm not familier with G-M Iron. (I'm not sure what you mean by a layered dex/con poison - the iron is a dex poison and you would add a con poison?) As I'm not familier with it, its most likely that the iron is not well known in the Kingdom. It doesn't seem particular potent (DC 12), and if the effects are not permament, it could be that he could get away with using it without people knowing it is what it is. But as mentioned, if they do discover its nature you could be in trouble. Of course, using it against 'monsters' would not involve the same complications.

Have a chew over the above and get let me know.

the head of the dog.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 5, 2004)

Hokay, let me see how I can restpond to this.



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> Nac,
> 
> I see where you are coming from now. The concept doesn't fit into the setting as developed so far, so I'm going to ask you to do some of the leg work on this one. Good thing that you have all that time on you hands.
> 
> ...



so does this mean I only need 5 levels of a class and then I qualify for duelist?  And what am I allowed to gestalt my core class to?


			
				doghead said:
			
		

> Like the Rapier, I find that the barbarian class can be problematic. 'Barbarian' represents a culture, not a skill set. One can be born a barbarian, or even become one by spending time amoung them. So I've always been dubious about the idea of just 'taking a level in barbarian'. Of course, barbarian in this setting doesn't have to be just a culture (although it is with the Yanagi and possibly the Kobito). We can just make it something else and rename it. So what I am looking for is some idea as to the context of the character/type. A more martial clan of ninja? A ancient (secret even) sect of warriors dedicated to the the old faith (as represented by the druids)? A reactionary sect/ warrior philosophy that emphasises 'loss of control' rather than the traditional 'self control' of conventional teaching. Some combination of the above. An import for the Middle Kingdom is also an option. The Middle Kingdom is much more vast than the Kingdom of Harmony, and much more diverse. But this also carries some potential for social stigma.




well, actually making him a refugee from another land would work out nicely with the kind of backstory I have for him.  I could give him the Serpent Totem barbarian class represented instead as an esoteric philosophy of combat (give me a day and I'll work that out in a more detailed manner, but I'm thinking the combination of opposites, control of body as in dex, but also loss of control in bloodlust).  Also, serpent clan style thing might help with the poison.


			
				doghead said:
			
		

> The Kingdom of Harmony is a fairly lawful society. My initial response is that weilding a poison weapon will be viewed very unfavourably. Using one in a duel with another person, particularly a Samurai would earn you a lot of emnity. It would also probably be considered dishonourable. A big thing in this world. I'm not familier with G-M Iron. (I'm not sure what you mean by a layered dex/con poison - the iron is a dex poison and you would add a con poison?) As I'm not familier with it, its most likely that the iron is not well known in the Kingdom. It doesn't seem particular potent (DC 12), and if the effects are not permament, it could be that he could get away with using it without people knowing it is what it is. But as mentioned, if they do discover its nature you could be in trouble. Of course, using it against 'monsters' would not involve the same complications.




yes, the layered referred to the inherent iron's poison plus adding a con poison to the blade.  Actually it might work for him to be somewhat dishonorable, and of ill-repute.  I could make it so that he had to flee the Middle Kingdom after an affair involving a duel with a member of the nobility and allegations of a poisoned blade.  If I gestalt him into adept, I was thinking about the possibilities of deliberately using slow poison on your weapon to make the poison take effect later, helping to remove evidence.

So to sum up:

Change "barbarian" to serpent clan/adept from the middle kingdom, possibly a member of a shadowy ninja-like organization.

Character has bad reputation, whispered allegations of poisoning, but nothing proved.

Possible stats for a weapon:  Thinsword(insert japanese name here):  This weapon is lighter that a traditional Katana with less of an edge, the emphasis being placed on the point.  It is used by some groups who favor quick, agile strikes.  1d8 damage, 18-20 threat range, exotic weapon.

I hope that solves things, otherwise, tell me and I'll fix it some more.


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## doghead (May 5, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> so does this mean I only need 5 levels of a class and then I qualify for duelist?  And what am I allowed to gestalt my core class to?




Level 5 is an prereq in addition to any current ones. ie +6 BAB for the Duelist. See Creamsteaks outline in post #2 for the reasoning here. 

For example a Samurai - at Fighter/Aristocrat6 and metting all the prereqs, he could take his next level as Duelist/Aristocrat. Not sure how you go about recording this (Fighter6uelist1)/Aristocrat7 ?? To avoid things getting seriously loopy, I think that characters will only be able to combine a PC or PrC class with an NPC class. No PC/PRC or PC/PC combinations.



			
				Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> well, actually making him a refugee from another land would work out nicely with the kind of backstory I have for him.  I could give him the Serpent Totem barbarian class represented instead as an esoteric philosophy of combat (give me a day and I'll work that out in a more detailed manner, but I'm thinking the combination of opposites, control of body as in dex, but also loss of control in bloodlust).  Also, serpent clan style thing might help with the poison.
> 
> yes, the layered referred to the inherent iron's poison plus adding a con poison to the blade.  Actually it might work for him to be somewhat dishonorable, and of ill-repute.  I could make it so that he had to flee the Middle Kingdom after an affair involving a duel with a member of the nobility and allegations of a poisoned blade.  If I gestalt him into adept, I was thinking about the possibilities of deliberately using slow poison on your weapon to make the poison take effect later, helping to remove evidence.
> 
> ...




Sounds interesting but I don't knowe the serpent clan. Give me an outline and well go from there (Have a look at the nameless thread if you haven't already)

gotta dash. late for work

the head of the dog.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 5, 2004)

Nameless thread? Which are you talking about?

Okay:

The serpent clan I have thought up is in fact a group of ninjas from the middle kingdom.  Coating their blades with poison, they hunt down those who oppose the will of their hidden leader.  The fighting style of the serpent clan stresses agility and fluidity.  Some of the more advanced members, however, move down a different path.  Those known as "the wrathful ones" learn the discipline of controlling primevil anger to channel it as a powerful force.  They learn to feel a constant sense of cold anger, using it rather than being used by it.

For the stats of the Serpent Clan wrathful one I was using the totem barbarian variant for serpent totem.  You lose fast movement, trap sense, and both uncanny dodges.  You gain +2 to fort saves vs poison at first level, +2 to move silently at 2nd level, Improved Grapple at 3rd level, and Improved Initiative at 5th level.

Proposed feat (or substitute for grapple at 3rd level, if you think that would work): Cold Rage: You can channel your rage into a cold, controlled fury.  You may use combat oriented skills and feats while raging even if they require int, wis, or dex (e.g. you may feint while raging).  Prerequisite: Rage class feature.


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 6, 2004)

Feh.  Could only stay away for so long.

I'm digging the idea of one of the old, animisitic shamans (i.e, druid) probably combined with Warrior.  More thoughts on that soon.

Are we going with the Dexterity to attack instead of strength variant?


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## doghead (May 6, 2004)

The Nameless is the title of my other game. Commoners and adepts. Caddoc. I put up some thoughts on how I approach my games that might be useful for you here.

I like where you are going with this. Given the purpose of the Serpent Clan warriors is to _hunt down those who oppose the will of their hidden leader_, how were you planning to transpose the character to the Kingdom of Harmony?

The Barbarian is fairly similar to a Rogue in may respects - only with rage instead of sneak attack and a little more combat orientated with a better HP and BAB progression. My initial feeling is to go with the standard barbarian class, as I want to avoid going outside the SRD as much as possible, and use your regular feats to create the elements you want. ie Greater Fortitude for poison resistance, Stealthy for the Move Silently bonus.

I'm thinking about altering the Rage a little to reflect the fact that is it learnt not cultural, and also to distinguish it a little from the regular barbarian rage.

1st: Rage: detox: 24 hours. (as per barbarian, +4 str, +4 con, +2 Will save bonus, - 2 AC, fatigued after.) 
4th: Cold Rage: detox: 12 hours. Character may use int and dex based combat skills and feats. 
8th: Quiet Rage: detox: 8 hours. Characters may use dex based skills. 
12th: Calm Rage: detox: 6 hours. Characters may use Int and Cha based skills.

Serpent clan warriors use a drug (actually, a derivative of a snake toxin) to initiate their rages. While safe enough if used according to tradition, if overused it results in a loss of fine motor control (dex). Raging again before the required recovery time requires a DC 25 Fort check (no take 10 or 20) after the Rage has finished or the character suffers a -1 Dex loss. The recovery period penalties stack: for additional each time the character rages within a recovery period, there is an additional +5 to the DC.

ie 0900 Rage - recovery period till 2100. 1300 Rage - recovery period till 0100 hours.
So the Raging at 1300 - DC 25. 
If the character raged again:
- at 2000 - DC 30 
- at 2200 (but not at 2000 hours) - DC 25 
- at 0300 (but not at 2000 or 2200 hours) - no check.

Basically, the character gets the option of using rage to get out of a bad situation, but is more than likely going to suffer for it. At 4th level, with Con 16, the character gets a Fort +7, meaning a roll of 18 is required. Just doable. At 12th level, Fort +11 requiring a roll of 14 would be required. 

Probably not exactly what you were looking for, but me know what you think.

DrZ, TH and Cannibal, I'd like your input on this as well. 

Actually, thats a standing invitation to everyone for discussions about setting ideas.

the head of the dog


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## doghead (May 6, 2004)

Thomas Hobbes said:
			
		

> Feh.  Could only stay away for so long.
> 
> I'm digging the idea of one of the old, animisitic shamans (i.e, druid) probably combined with Warrior.  More thoughts on that soon.
> 
> Are we going with the Dexterity to attack instead of strength variant?




Hey TH.

Whoops. Yes I was planning to as it better fits the 'form and precision' empasis of japanese fighting, and it gives the smaller races a more fighting chance against the larger ones (and I do like giants). 

I've a sneaking suspicion that I haven't mentioned it. The dex variant basically uses the dex bonus for to hit rolls and the str bonus for damage. So DrZ, Cannibal, NMF, let me know if its going to cause any serious problems.

the hung head of the dog.


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## DrZombie (May 6, 2004)

Nope, no problem, I was going for a monk anyway. Will have to see when I have some time to make the character. Busy busy busy.


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## doghead (May 6, 2004)

I've decided to kick off the game with the four we have, once we are done, rather than wait for another two to arrive and go through the whole generation process. SEa trials if you wish, to discover any vices in the system or setting, and allow everyone to get a bit more familier with the mechanics. 

So that means that we look like this: 

Dr Zombie - Monk (Monk/???*)
Cannibal Kender - Anzen na Michi (Ranger/Expert?)
Nac Mac Feegle - Serpent Clan Warrior (Barbarian/???) from the Middle Kingdom.
Thomas Hobbes - Taoist Priest (Druid/Warrior).

If anymore do arrive and want in, I'll bring them in once they are set to go.

* DrZ - you don't have to gestalt your character if you wish. Basically, it is just a way to increase the skill range in many cases. As it would do if you took a Monk/Expert gestalt (4->6+int). But in the case of the Monk, as it is not a magic using class, the Adept is also an option according to the way it has been set up so far. Haven't really considered how that would look, or how it would go with the feel of the Monk class. Chew on it for a bit and let me know.

Chew it over and see what you think. And don't sweat the time you need. Things aren't likely to be close to starting for at least a week.

Just a heads up while we are on the topic of whats coming up. I've will be O/S for a friends wedding from the 19th to the 25th of May. I suspect that my access at that time will be rather limited. So I'm hoping to have the IC thread started before I go so you can use the time to get to know each other IC while I am away. Thats the plan at least. We'll see how we go.

the head of the inu


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 6, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> My initial feeling is to go with the standard barbarian class, as I want to avoid going outside the SRD as much as possible...
> 
> (snip)
> 
> I'm thinking about altering the Rage a little to reflect the fact that is it learnt not cultural, and also to distinguish it a little from the regular barbarian rage.




My initial thought is that if we're not going to go outside the SRD, it's probably best not too house rule too much either (gestalt and grim-n-gritty aside...).    I understand your goals with the modification of rage thing, but the mechanic seems a bit on the clunky side.  It seems to me that it would be best to keep it the same mechanically and change the flavor text.

(As a heads-up, I believe that the "serpent totem" barbarian Nac proposed is from Unearthed Arcana, the big book o' variant rules that Gestalt comes from.  They propose a variety of different "totems" exchanging the standard barbarian abilities for different ones.  This would seem to vouch for its balanced-ness if nothing else).

Dr.Z- you could gestalt with warrior to get the full BAB, which helps with both attack and defense, and be a "warrior monk"; you could gestalt with expert and be a "scholar monk"; or you could gestalt with adept and be a "mystical monk".  Mmm, Gestalt.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 6, 2004)

Okay, as to why he’s in the Kingdom of Harmony, I though I dealt with that, but here it is again.  He was in a duel with a noble over some point of honor.  They fought, both received incapacitating wounds but neither was killed.  Over the next few weeks, his wounds healed and he went on his way.  The noble’s wounds festered mysteriously and he died in agony.  There were allegations of poison, and the deceased noble had enough friends that he was banished from the Middle Kingdom on pain of death for the his deeds.

Also, I realized (re-read barbarian rage rules) that you can feint when raging.

As to the rage thing, I actually tend to agree with Thomas Hobbes on the rage thing.  If you take away a Barbarian’s ability to rage several times a day as a free action, you really take away what makes the class worthwhile.  I’d say just change the description, and if you want change a con bonus to dex or something.

Anyways, here’s his stats for now, just to get a head start. (By the way, I think that 4th level is 9000 starting gp.  Is that right?)

Rokuro Kichiro, the Red Viper

Human 4th level Barbarian/Expert
Medium Humanoid (Human)
Soak: 10 (4 class, 2 con, 4 armor)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Defense Bonus: +8 (4 class, 4 dexterity), +9 vs. one opponent (dodge)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7
Attack: Staff  +9  (+1 Thinblade: 1d8+5)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Class Features:Rage 2/day, fast movement, Uncanny Dodge I, Trap Sense +1
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Read/Write Language (Common, Yamani, Horde), Survival +7 (7 ranks), Spot +7 (7 ranks), Listen +7 (7 ranks), Intimidate +7 (7 ranks), Bluff +11 (7 ranks), Hide +11 (7 ranks), Move Silently +11 (7 ranks), Craft: Poisonmaking +9 (7 ranks)
Feats: EWP: Thinblade, Dodge, Improved Feint

Equipment (note: all poisons made with craft at 1/3 cost)
+1 Thinblade (2400 gp)
Masterwork Chain Shirt (250 gp)
Standard Clothes (negligible)
Gauntlet of Deception (+4 to bluff) (1600 gp)
1 dose Black Lotus Extract (1500 gp)
3 Doses Deathblade (1800 gp)
10 doses Sassone Leaf Residue (1000 gp)
15 uses poisonfix (keeps poisoned blade fresh) (300)
150 gp left over

Poison Stats:
Black Lotus Extract: Save DC 20, 3d6 con/3d6 con
Deathblade: Save DC 20, 1d6 con/2d6 con
Sassone Leaf Residue: Save DC 16, 2d12 hp/1d6 con

From here I’m planning on 2 levels of fighter/expert, 1 level of Assasin/Expert, then into Duelist.

How would you feel about this (non-core) feat: Armored Fighting Style: Allows you to use a class based fighting style in armor one level heavier (e.g. ranger can 2-weapon fight in medium armor).

In a day or so I'll put up a background and personality.


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 6, 2004)

Hmm.  As an aside, perhaps Sasson Leaf Residue should be upped in price for GnG.  2d12 isn't that impressive in normal D&D, but it's pretty nasty when you've only got 20 hit points.

Edit: Just got a much more interesting idea, doghead, if you're willing to go with it.

You said that certain aspects of the godhead are not worshipped in the kingdom, except as secretly conducted by the Emperor.  So what if one of his sects revered Death and Trickery, and served a ninja-like role as assasins and enforcers?  Cleric gestalted with Expert (for what skills Trickery doesn't give me) and maybe a little Warrior.  Ninja death striku!

2nd edit: Nac, we get class-based soak now?

3rd edit: First draft.

*Hiraku Mutsouru*
Cleric/Expert 4
*Soak:* 5 (+1 constitution, +4 armor)
*Initiative:* +7
*Speed:* 30 ft.
*Defense bonus:* +6 (+3 BAB +3 Dex)
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +3/+3
*Attack:* +6 melee (1d4, dagger) or +6 melee (1d6, quarterstaff) or +6 ranged (1d4, dagger)
*Space/Reach:* 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Rebuke Undead 2/day, Spontaneous Inflict, Death Touch (4d6)
*Special Qualities:* None
*Saves:* Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will +7
*Abilities:* Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 8.
*Skills (Bonus/ranks):* Bluff +8/7, Climb +7/7, Concentration +8/7, Disguise +11/0, Hide +10/7, Knowledge: Religion +9/7, Listen +10/7, Move Silently +12/7, Spot +10/7, Sense Motive +10/7
*Feats:* Deceptive, Improved Initiative, Craft Wondrous Item
*Equipment:* _Studded Leather +1_ (1185), 10 daggers (20 gp), 2 _Wands of Cure Minor Wounds_ (750), _Sandals of Silent Moves +2_ (200)*, _Hat of Disguise_ (1,000)*,  _Prayer Beads of the Unseen_ (_Invisibility_ 2/day, 2,160)*, 85 iron pieces remaining, Quarterstaff (0 gp), Sling
*Languages:* Common, Yanagi, Secret Cult Language

Spells per day: 5/4+1/3+1
Spells prepared: 0- _Cure Minor Wounds_ x2, _Detect Magic, Guidance, Detect Poison._ 1st- _Shield of Faith, Doom, Divine Favor, Magic Stone, Cause Fear_* 2nd- _Cat’s Grace, Spiritual Weapon x2, Invisibility_*  *Domain spell.  Domains: Death (Death touch 1/day, 4d6) and Trickery (Hide, Bluff, and Disguise are class skills).

*Self-crafted items, and thus half price.  I start 258 points of xp below the others.  You could have me start a level lower and advance after an encounter or two, or (my recommendation) just have me keep at level 4 but still be 258 expierience points slower in leveling.

Hiraku's _modus operandi_ would generally be to wander from town to town as a simple monk (in the non-martial arts sense), a cover (unless I am mistaken) used by the historical ninjas.  He would follow instructions from those priests above him in the hierarchy of the sect, and the sect would answer to the Emperor.

When assasinating someone, he'd sneak onto the ground, get close to the target with _invisibility_, and depending on circumstances use _inflict moderate wounds_ (+12 to the attack, due to modified touch rules and invisiblity, and the opponent is flat footed.  2d8+4, will save for half) followed by a use of his Death Touch (+10, hopefully winning intiative so he's flat-footed still.  Roll 4d6; if the roll is greater than his hit points, dead with no save.  "Hit points" in original D&D meant above 0; in GnG, considering the change of the "dying" threshold, it could be considered not to include those last 5 life pips.  At higher levels, the death touch should follow the rules for spell damage).  With an average damage of 13 or 6, depending on whether or not they saved vs. the _Inflict_, and rolling an average of 14 on the death touch, this should be an effective combination. 

If there are guards, he'll summon _Spiritual Weapons_ (which can be done from within invisibility) to take care of them before moving in on the target.  Buffs and invisibility should get him out again.


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## Ferrix (May 7, 2004)

i'd be up for this if you want another character... i'll take some time to go back over the creation rules and figure a good concept out


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 7, 2004)

I got the impression from reading GnG that you got a "soak progression" much like your hp progression.  I may have misread.  Did I?

Whoops, looks like I only get 5400 to start so I'll have to change equipment.  I'll wait on the ruling for the price of sassone leaf residue first, b/c I'm going to want a lot of that (gotta love 2d12 past all that DR).

By the way.  Do you rule that you gain your class bonus to Defense even if you're flat-footed?  I know I've played in GnG games where it was ruled you don't get anything but deflection and insight modifiers when flat-footed (becuase class bonus represents an ability to dodge and parry strikes).

I'll edit or repost my character after the poison price clarification.


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## doghead (May 7, 2004)

Ferrix.

The last spot is yours if you want it. And that makes 5.

I'm going to close the game at this point. I would rather work with a smaller group than a larger on at this point til I know how things go.

I haven't had a chance to properly work through all the new material, but it looks really good everyone. Thanks for your input and effort. I'll try and get back on it within 24 hours.

the head of the dog


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## Ferrix (May 7, 2004)

I'm thinking a bard/warrior, a ishijin samurai (fighter/expert), or if you'd allow it a hexblade/adept (hexblade is from CW) or a swashbuckler/expert (swashbuckler is from CW, and is basically just a light-armor fighter).

Have at it.


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## doghead (May 8, 2004)

Ferrix: The Omishiranu (Bard/NPC - Warrior in your case) is fine. So is an Ishijin Fighter/Expert. Whether or not he is recognised as a Samurai, which is a social rank in human society, is going to take some thought.

I'm not familier with the hexblade or swashbuckler. So lets leave them out at this point.

Nac Mac Feegle and Thomas Hobbes to come ...


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## doghead (May 8, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle: Apologies. I read too much into where you said: _they hunt down those who oppose the will of their hidden leader_. I took it to mean that they lived a secret 'bandits in the hills' life under direct orders from their leader. Having re-read your explanation, it seems more correct to see them as followers who work secretly to advance the cause of their leader.

_Rokuro Kichiro_ sounds Japanese. Is your character originally from the Kingdom of Harmony? Or is his family?

I have absolutely no experience with character's using poison. My first thought is that the knife cuts both ways. With that said, I'm tempted just to leave it as is in the rules. Poison has always been one of the most feared weapons of the assassin. And the poisoner correspondingly the one of the most despised of killers.

Crafting. Never had much to do with that either. Off to the SRD ...
Sasson Leaf Residue - 3000sp, DC 15 (? not indicated in SRD, so I took the Acid DC), 100gp in materials. Craft (poison) +9, Take ten, improvised tools -2: 17. 17x15=225. 3000/225=13 weeks. 200 weeks for the Black Lotus extract. I presume that this is for one dose. Would be a bit faster with masterwork artisan tools (55gp) and an Alchemist's lab (500gp). Or by using the poison's save DC. 
 - Sasson Leaf residue: DC16, Masterwork tools, 9 weeks; 
 - Black Lotus extract: DC 20, Masterwork tools, 100 weeks. 
You're also going to need a secure place to brew these. A place safe from prying eyes and questions.

Wow. Not something you can whip up over a weekend. And getting the materials for poison is not going to be as simple as heading down the local market. 

No arguements from this end about leaving the rage as is. The idea just reflects my feeling that everything 'refreshing' at midnight seems a little odd. And I did like the bit about using a toxin as the catalyst. Oh well ...

There is no class progression for Soak.

I'll give some thought to the flat footed question. Deflection modifiers I know, but insight modifiers?

doghead


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## doghead (May 8, 2004)

TH. You are scary. It took me a few reads to work through your assassination mo. I'm still not sure I get it. But I'm pretty confident that you do. 

You and NMF are going to give me headaches I know it. 

_I know. Giants! Lotsa giants. With dire wolves as pets ... arr, are we live? Oh Shi_

Actually, its *ninja defu sutaraiku!*. And its good. You been poking around in my notes?

Could you give me a rank breakdown of the skills. I have no doubt that they are all straight. Its just helps me get a better grasp on what comes from where.


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## doghead (May 8, 2004)

Hey everyone

One last post before I crawl off to bed. I want to thank you all for the creative energy you have poured into you character concepts. And your patience in working through the ideas with me. (Everytime I do a homebrew I swear the next time I'm just going to do something straight out of a book. Oh well, wishes and good intentions ...)

And what an assortment of all sorts we have. And not a Samurai amoung them.

the head of the dog

coming up: some thoughts on the Emperor


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 9, 2004)

Doghead- edited in the skill ranks.  I just maxed them out, so it's actually pretty simple.   6 points per level from expert plus 1 int plus 1 human =8 skill maxed out.

One question you didn't answer was how being flat-footed works.  To provide some context:

In the previous version of Grim-n-gritty, when you were denied your dex bonus you lost everything (both class and dexterity bonuses) and just rolled an unmodified d20.  This hurt.  A lot.  In a system where each point you beat the defense roll by _also_ adds to the damage, it hurts more.  It also means that Uncanncy Dodge at its lowest, almost-never-be-denied dex state is crazygonuts good.  Too good, really, 'cause those that have it are immune to the otherwise highly effective ambush tactics.  I tell you, it's enough to make a GnG d20modern DM cry when his PC's are well-nigh immune to sniper attacks.  Sigh.  But I digress.

The new GnG text doesn't say and Mr. Hood hasn't clarified if you loose just Dex or Dex and class.  If you go the lose-it-all route, you'll probably want to nerf uncanny dodge some (my reccomendation is that with the first stage, you get ONLY your dex bonus to AC; with improved uncanny dodge, you can get whole hog or dex plus maybe half your class bonus) so it doesn't make people immune to ambushes.  Also possibly problematic is the fient manuver, as it would pretty much cripple any opponent who fell for it (perhaps the nerf here is that they keep their class bonus only, or keep their dex bonus only, or dex plus half class- same combinations as above).  This also has the benefit of being the most realistic (how can you dodge what you can't see?) and rewarding of clever play (and shows why people who fight in open, honorable combat _and don't die_ are highly worthy of praise).  It also makes invisibility very, very good, just to make the conflicts of interest clear. 

You can have people lose only Dex in which case being caugh flat footed is not so utterly, utterly crippling.  This may go too far the other way because as levels progress ambushes get relatively less effective.  A fighter 1 with dex 16 loseses 3 points, or 75% of his defense bonus flat-footed; a 10th level fighter only looses about a fourth.  Being flat footed also implies not being able to dodge at all, which is what the class bonus represents.

Me?  I'd go for the first, and make some combination of the modifications above.  My personal reccomendation for _which_ of the modifications would be that uncanny dodge lets you keep your dex bonus to AC, improved uncanny dodge lets you keep dex plus 1/2 your class bonus, and fient strips you down to 1/2 your class bonus.  This makes the respective abilities still worth it, removing much of the power they gain from the change in system.


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## Ferrix (May 9, 2004)

Current character workup - not finished yet

Name: Takumi Hideaki 
Class: Bard 4//Warrior 4
Race: Human
Soak: 6 (+1 con, +5 armor)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft.
Defense bonus: +9 (+4 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6
Attack: rapier +10 melee (1d6+3) or kukri +9 melee (1d4+2)
Full Attack: rapier +8 melee (1d6+3)/kukri +7 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: 
Special Qualities: None
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 18 (+1 at level 4), Con 13, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 18
Skills (70sp, 7/3.5): Bluff +11 (7 ranks), Concentration +8 (7 ranks), Diplomacy +17 (7 ranks), Disguise +13 (7 ranks), Gather Information +11 (7 ranks), Knowledge (nobility) +10 (7 ranks), Perform (poetry) +11 (7 ranks), Sense Motive +6 (7 ranks), Spellcraft +10 (7 ranks), Use Magic Device +11 (7 ranks)
Feats: two-weapon fighting, improved buckler defense,  wf: rapier
Bard Abilities: bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1, inspire competence,
Spells per day (3/3/1)
Spells known (6/3/2): ghost sound, detect magic, lullaby, prestidigitation, daze, read magic, charm person, sleep, tasha's hideous laughter, hold person, alter self
Equipment (5400ip total): buckler (15ip), +1 rapier (2320ip), kukri (8ip), mithril chain shirt +1 (2100ip), 

Languages:

Appearance:

Personality:

Background:


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## doghead (May 9, 2004)

What is it with the rapiers ... 

Sorry guys. Don't mind me. I know that it has good numbers and all. It just the idea of weilding a rapier jars in most settings I have seen.

Anyway, some terminology to get around your DM's delicate sensibilites.

Japanese Swords
Tantou (less than 12") 2gp, 1d4, 8+/+0, 1lb. (ie. Daggar)
Wakizashi (12" to 24") 10gp, 1d6, 8+/+0, 2lb. (ie Short sword)
Katana (24" or more) 15gp, 1d8, 8+/+0, 4lb. (ie Longsword)
Tachi (24" or more) 20gp, 1d10, 8+/+0, 5lb. (ie Bastard Sword)
Chinese Swords
Straightblade 20gp, 1d6, 6+/+0, 2lb. (ie Rapier)

Technically, the difference between the Tachi and the Katana was in the way it was worn. The Katana was worn through the belt edge up for use on foot, the tachi slung from the belt edge down for use on horseback. Size wise, there wasn't much difference, though the tachi was sometimes a bit longer. I've upped the size of the Tachi for game puposes.

Kama, Sai, etc are all fine as is.


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## Ferrix (May 9, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> What is it with the rapiers ...
> 
> Sorry guys. Don't mind me. I know that it has good numbers and all. It just the idea of weilding a rapier jars in most settings I have seen.
> 
> ...




A bunch of chinese swords as well could qualify as rapier-like in the way they were used.  Straight bladed swords used for primarily stabbing, with a relatively flexible blade.  Calling it a rapier is just for the stats really, it wouldn't have to be a "classical" looking rapier even in medieval settings.

And what do the numbers 6+/+0, mean?


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## doghead (May 9, 2004)

Ferrix, nice rolls. We're going with level 4 to start. (I forgot to update the front page, didn't I?) 4th level. Max starting wealth (5400 from what everyone else is doing. I, personally, have no idea what max starting wealth is.), max of half wealth on one item. Your BAB related numbers will need to be altered for the level change, but otherwise it looks good.

Re: Flat footed. I assume Ken didn't deal with it in the House Rules thread ... Nope.

Some thoughts. Common sense would suggest that if can't see it comming, you can't defend yourself against it. Hence the popularity of armour. Uncanny Dodge strikes me as being a bit like 'spider senses' - they allows characters to react to things they can't see coming. Its uncanny. The problem is that so many things get rolled up into one. Being attacked by an invisible opponent. Missile weapons on the battlefield. Being surprised.

From the Immobised Characters get an automatic 1 on thier defence roll, I suspect that you lose everything. Ken's is a harsh world. 

I think that I'll start with a more middle ground approach - being caught flat footed results in you losing you reflex/dex bonus to your defence. ie. Your BAB bonus refects more than just your ability to dogde, but also an inate, unconcious ability to minimise your exposure to danger. Like the old vets in the Vietman war movies who somehow stay standing while others fall. OK. Its a bit thin. But we'll play it this way and see how it goes. It has the added benefit of being the most simple, requiring no rewrites of Uncanny Dodge and Feint.


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## doghead (May 9, 2004)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> A bunch of chinese swords as well could qualify as rapier-like in the way they were used.  Straight bladed swords used for primarily stabbing, with a relatively flexible blade.  Calling it a rapier is just for the stats really, it wouldn't have to be a "classical" looking rapier even in medieval settings.
> 
> And what do the numbers 6+/+0, mean?




Yeah. I agree. Just me being weird. Ignore me doing this. Ignore me doing this.

6+: The amount your attack roll needs to exceed the defence roll to threaten a critical (from the dnd threat range of 18-20)
+0: Critical effect bonus. (from the dnd damage multiplier)


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 9, 2004)

Just to make sure I'm clear, you lose your dexterity bonus and retain your base attack bonus when flat-footed?


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## Ferrix (May 9, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> Ferrix, nice rolls. We're going with level 4 to start. (I forgot to update the front page, didn't I?) 4th level. Max starting wealth (5400 from what everyone else is doing. I, personally, have no idea what max starting wealth is.), max of half wealth on one item. Your BAB related numbers will need to be altered for the level change, but otherwise it looks good.




ah... 4th level, bummer :-( no keen rapier for me.  Appropriate starting wealth for 4th level is 5400gp, 9000 at level 5.

Okay, I think I'll pan him out a bit more now.


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## doghead (May 10, 2004)

TH: at this point, yeah. Actually, according to my set of rules, your Base defence bonus equals tour BAB plus your dex modifier _or your total reflex save (including your dex modifier), whichever is higher_. So you lose the Reflex element but keep your BAB element. We'll see how it goes for a while, its not set in stone.

Ferrix: Bummer indeed.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 10, 2004)

Thomas Hobbes:  I think death touch may be a wee bit overpowered.  Think about it.  6th level priest does 6d6 or on average 21.  Now since hp don't progress, and there isn't a save for that ability, that means that in two levels you have a kill attack 1/day.  Yikes.

Okay, here he is, edited for cost and with a few misc comments.

I'll probably go for 2 levels of fighter/expert followed actually by a level of assasin/warrior, then I'll wing it from there.

Since I realized that I don't need finesse (due to GnG), I think I might switch weapons to a spear or a longspear.  Would you allow a feat to "choke up" on a longspear (use it as a non-reach weapon)?  Using a different weapon would be beneficial for two reasons:  firstly I'm different , and second less likely to be regulated (swords are supposed to be mainly samurai weapons).  I haven't decided yet, but I'm leaning towards spear.  If I do, I'll switch out my proficiency for either a weapon focus feat or a feat to "choke up".  Spear will rule out duelist, and so I'll just go straight assasin.  What are your opinions?

Rokuro Kichiro, the Red Viper

Human 4th level Barbarian/Expert
Medium Humanoid (Human)
Soak: 6 (2 con, 4 armor)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Defense Bonus: +8 (4 class, 4 dexterity), +9 vs. one opponent (dodge)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7
Attack: Thinblade +9 (MW Thinblade: 1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Class Features:Rage 2/day, fast movement, Uncanny Dodge I, Trap Sense +1
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Read/Write Language (Common, Yanagi, Horde), Survival +7 (7 ranks), Spot +7 (7 ranks), Listen +7 (7 ranks), Intimidate +7 (7 ranks), Bluff +10 (7 ranks), Hide +11 (7 ranks), Move Silently +11 (7 ranks), Craft: Poisonmaking +9 (7 ranks)
Feats: EWP: Thinblade, Dodge, Improved Feint

Equipment (note: all poisons made with craft at 1/3 cost)
Mastework Thinblade (400 gp)
Masterwork Chain Shirt (250 gp)
Standard Clothes (negligible)
15 single gloves (used to apply poison, negligable)
Gauntlet of Deception (+3 to bluff) (900 gp)
1 dose Black Lotus Extract (1500 gp)
2 Doses Deathblade (1200 gp)
10 doses Sassone Leaf Residue (1000 gp)
13 uses poisonfix (keeps poisoned blade fresh) (260)
40 iron pieces left over

Poison Stats:
Black Lotus Extract: Save DC 20, 3d6 con/3d6 con
Deathblade: Save DC 20, 1d6 con/2d6 con
Sassone Leaf Residue: Save DC 16, 2d12 hp/1d6 con

Note:  The Sasson Leaf Residue and Black Lotus Extract are contact poisons, and as such only need a touch attack to hit.

Appearence:  Rokuro is a thin, almost gaunt man with reddish eyes and black hair.  His skin is slightly dark, and he gives the appearence of always being shadowed.  Some people have intimated that he had a member of the Horde somewhere in his ancestory (and well he might, as he doesn't know his father).  Few people have intimated this twice, as it's hard to speak with punctured lungs.  He wears a chain shirt stained pure black with a stylized red sun with a spear through it in the center.  He carries a thin sword (or a spear, haven't decided yet), the blade (or head) of which usually glistens black from some nameless substance (usually Sassone Leaf Residue).

Personality: Rokuro is a reclusive man, who speaks little.  He is tightly controlled, and gives little away by his movements.  While being vicious and often cruel in battle, Rokuro is not particularly evil.  He will neither go out of his way to harm people or to help them.  Rokuro does have a love of battle, and will seek out work fighting or even simply go hunt down something to fight.  His greatest delight is to face an equal opponent in combat, although he will not shrink from killing those less skilled than he (although he looks down on the slaughter of the helpless).

History:  Rokuro was the bastard son of a noble house of the Middle Kingdom, left to the care of an adoptive father who cared little for him.  Thrown out at the age of ten to live or die in the streets when his true mother died (and thus stopped paying his adoptive father to keep him), he survived through a combination of cunning, agility, and shear animal ferocity.  For a while he lived
as a pickpocket in the city, until he tried to pick the pocket of a member of the Serpent Clan.  Fortunately for him, rather than being outraged and killing him at once, the man was amused.  Angry at this apparent mockery, Rokuro drew a knife and attacked the man.  Within a second, he was flat on his back with his entire are numb from the wrench with which he had been disarmed.  To his amazement, rather than gutting him, the man bent over and offered him a hand up.  Warily, Rokuro asked what the man meant by this, and he said that he saw skill in Rokuro, and would offer him training and a home if he wished.  Rokuro accepted, and his life changed.  From that point on Rokuro trained rigorously as first a warrior, then a wrathful one of the serpent clan.  At the age of 20, Rokuro was a skilled member of the clan, and once again his life changed, this time for the worse.  While in the city, he was bumped into by a drunken nobleman who took offence at the "wretch who dared touch me."  Caught with no way to avoid a duel, Rokuro was forced to fight.  He and the noble took wounds, and the duel ended.  Rokuro recovered, the noble didn't.  Rokuro was banished from the kingdom under suspicion of having used poison in a duel, and came thus to the Kingdom of Harmony.  He has only been here for a few months, working as a paid mercenary.



Okay, for the name, I thought that the middle kingdom was japanese-ish as well.  Whoops.  Could you just quickly tell me what the middle kingdom is like?  I'll change the name probably if it isn't japanese.  New name probably Oberyn Martell, Red Viper of Dorne.

For the poison craft rules.  I don't know.  I've always thought those times were a little off.  Let's take a 10th level expert with int 18 and skill focus (craftoisonmaking).  He has +20 to his craft check.  Now lets take Sassone leaf residue, which is supposed to be a relatively common poison.  It costs 3000 sp, dc 15 to make.  Now suppose he takes 10.  In one week he makes (30*15) sp or 450 sp of poison.  At this rate it will take him almost 7 weeks to make one dose of relatively common poison.  And that's at 10th level geared specifically to make poison.  That seems a little off.

Anyways, you can rule that any way you want, that's just my little rant.


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 10, 2004)

Nac-  I just noticed, feat-wise, that you need Combat Expertise as a prerequsite for Improved Fient.  So you could do Combat Expertise, Improved Fient, and Dodge as your three feats.

As for spears, you could just use a shortspear and skip the choking up for now.  Alternately, 5-foot step or take Improved Unarmed Strike to deal with anything that gets too close.  Reach is a pretty kickin' ability when any attack might drop a foe, and worth having to back up now and then.

Edit:

Re: Death touch, I expect it would work as a spell- cap at 4 dice, and then add +2 per die after that.  6th level would be 4d6+4.

Death Touch is really no more lethal than any other spell (which are supposed to be nasty).  And it's touch, which is a spot better than Fireball.

If we get there, just wait for the _Flamestriku!_. 

Also, about crafting:  Perhaps we could use a "craft point" system as detailed here.  (This is also from Unearthed Arcana, the big book of OGC goodness).  Zero-down time (on the other hand, zero down time is unrealistic).  Requires a feat to craft mundane items as well.  

Just a thought.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 11, 2004)

I think I like the longspear/5 foot step idea, and that would let me get the combat expertise (which will also help me live through ogres ).

On the other hand, it would let out duelist class.

Advice, peoples?  Assasin only with longspear or duelist/assassin with sword?


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 11, 2004)

I think there's a lot to be said of the longspear and the manifold attacks of opportunity it will grant you.  Add in spring attack (you already have dodge) and things are even peachier.  You get 1/attack a round normally, and if they actually come after you you get another.  This also works decently well with fient , since spring attack allows you a moment to breath outside of combat, then rush back in against the dex-denied opponent (although it's not a perfect fit, since you should mostly be move-attack-move-ing).  Flanking also gets pretty easy, what with the extra reach and mobility.

On the the other hand, it's hard to conceal, a notable assassin trick (not that you have to use the same weapon all the time).  Also, fienting, I just noticed, does not work with raging, nor does expertise (it says under the description- not charisma-based skills except for intimidate).  Depending on how critical the barbarian class and rage is to you, you could switch to fighter, or ask Doghead about a feat that lets you fient while raging... but then you're pretty feat-heavy, what with expertise, improved fient, and all the way up to Spring Attack.  You could just drop fienting and stab people while dodging around and raging.

Edit: Hypothetically, if you went fighter/expert, could could have a total of 6 feats.  Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Expertise, Improved Fient, plus one other (perhaps Craft Achemical Item if we use that sytem, or weapon focus if not).  If you go Barbarian, you could have Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack if you drop fienting.  Both are quite good options.


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## doghead (May 11, 2004)

Deathstrike and poison. Both of your characters make me nervous (in a good way, ... kind of  I'm not going to alter things at the moment. The gng system is ment to be alot more leathal. Generally, my goal is to play it as is til we know more, then consider any alterations.

The Middle Kingdom is the name for ancient china - _the kingdom between heaven and earth_. I raided the China Daily Star newspaper site (sports section) for names for my chinese characters.

I agree with you in regards to the crafting times. I was a little blown away by them. I had assumed about a week maybe to make (prep, brew, stew and distill - that kind of thing) a potion. I'll have a look at the alt rules TH suggested. Alternatively, eliminating the gp-sp conversion would cut times by a factor of 10, or changing weeks to days would cut it by a factor of 7. The question is how that would work with other craft areas, like armour. Anyway, something to think about.

Both the sword and spear approaches look good. Personnaly. I like spears. Carrying a spear would not be uncommon. For game purposes, the sword will not be the exclusive providence of the Samurai, although they will have certain dress elements that are - the topnot for example. I'll think about a 'choke up' feat, but it will be something for later. Probably with some prereqs. I'll get back to you


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## Ferrix (May 11, 2004)

The Craft Point system can be useful, but the way it requires characters to take feats to make mundane items (masterwork & alchemical are mundane items to me) is a real blow.  Usually I'd just go with dropping the gp-sp conversion, and if I was DM it'd make sense for a character with a decent craft skill to make a longsword in a day or two at most, since I don't think most smiths would work from scratch iron ore it shouldn't take weeks upon weeks once you have the materials.


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 11, 2004)

Perhaps the balance on poison is that people in the Kingdom of Harmony won't let you get away with it.  Kill a Samauri with it, and before you know it all the others ones are after you.  Tisk tisk.

Ditto with Death Touch- he'll want to avoid being identified as a worshipper of the death cult.  Presumably people with Spellcraft or Knowledge: Religion could differentiate it from the normal Inflict X wounds spell.  Even if the Empire's secret worship was widely known, Hasako's job depends on him not being noticed.  A known assassin is not a terribly effective one. 

Alignment and motivation wise doghead (to help you write the set up), Hasako is entirely loyal to the Empire and the Emperor, in that order (altough culturally I'm not sure they're distinct, but if they are that's how he would see it).  He's either Lawful Neutral of Lawful Evil; he'll do whatever it takes to accomplish the goals assigned to him (within the bounds of honor as he understands it: service to the emperor means not disgracing the empire.  What, precisely, the restrictions are on noble non-samauri priests are something you're going to have to inform me about. )


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 11, 2004)

Okay, here he is edited for using a spear and going barb1/fighter3 (need that rage, but feats never hurt).

This way at 5th level, I'll pick up combat expertise, and at 6th I'll pick up feint just in time for my sneak attack damage to come into play.   At 9th I'll grab either weapon specialization or improved critical.

I'm now ready (I think) to play.

Slight Background Change: Rokuro's mother was the wife of a noble exiled from the kingdom of harmony.  She followed him out of a sense of loyalty, giving birth to him shortly after they arrived (only a month or so).  This is mainly a little excuse to keep a japanese name, because I like it better.

Rokuro Kichiro
Human 1st level Barbarian/Expert, 3rd level Fighter/Expert
Medium Humanoid (Human)
Soak: 6 (2 con, 4 armor)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares)
Defense Bonus: +8 (4 class, 4 dexterity), +9 vs. one opponent (dodge)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+7
Attack: Spear +10 (MW Spear: 1d8+4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Class Features:Rage 1/day, fast movement
Saves: Fort +6, Ref +5, Will +4
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 18, Con 14, Int 15, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Read/Write Language (Common, Yanagi, Horde), Survival +7 (7 ranks), Spot +7 (7 ranks), Listen +7 (7 ranks), Intimidate +7 (7 ranks), Bluff +10 (7 ranks), Hide +11 (7 ranks), Move Silently +11 (7 ranks), Craft: Poisonmaking +9 (7 ranks)
Feats: Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Combat Reflexes, Weapon Focus: Spear

Equipment (note: all poisons made with craft at 1/3 cost)
Mastework Spear (315 gp)
Masterwork Chain Shirt (250 gp)
Standard Clothes (negligible)
15 single gloves (used to apply poison, negligable)
Gauntlet of Deception (+3 to bluff) (900 gp)
1 dose Black Lotus Extract (1500 gp)
2 Doses Deathblade (1200 gp)
10 doses Sassone Leaf Residue (1000 gp)
13 uses poisonfix (keeps poisoned blade fresh) (260)
125 iron pieces left over

Poison Stats:
Black Lotus Extract: Save DC 20, 3d6 con/3d6 con
Deathblade: Save DC 20, 1d6 con/2d6 con
Sassone Leaf Residue: Save DC 16, 2d12 hp/1d6 con

Note: The Sasson Leaf Residue and Black Lotus Extract are contact poisons, and as such only need a touch attack to hit.


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## doghead (May 11, 2004)

Thoughts on the Samurai

The term Samurai applied to individuals, not the class. The Samurai was a warrior of the Buke class (their gentry or aristocracy). Historically, it was gender spacific - only males could be samurai. Females of the class trained in the way of the warrior were refered to as 'onna bugei-sha' - female buku warriors. I don't intend to make the latter distinction. 

I will keep the Buke class as the upper strata of society. Almost universally, buke males are trained as Samurai, although not all choose to take that path. Females can also be so trained and be granted the title Samurai. In addition, members of other classes can be made Samurai in reward for acts of great valour and service. However, this would not make them a member of the Buke. (At least not for a couple of generations usually.) In this it is quite similar to the idea of the 'knight' who did not necessarily have to be a member of the nobility.

Samurai in the service of a Daimyo are all expected to be able to equip themselves (horse and bow, swords and armour) and maintain their equipment. Usually this is through the holding of land. A Samurai with significant holdings may be expected to provide his Daimyo with troops as well. A newly created Samurai would usually be given title over land in the providence of the Daimyo who elevated them. The Daimyo is not responsible for equipping his Samurai, although gifts are often given as a reward for outstanding service. 

However, a Daimyo is responsible for equipping and training his regular troops.

Thoughts on Poison and the use of

_A man carrying poison shall be presumed to have evil intentions;
A man taking a life with poison shall forfeit his own;
A sword coated in poison shall be broken._

Nakagawa Toshikazu

Not the law perhaps, but famous words that have carried a lot of weight over time in the Kingdom of Harmony. Of course the Ninja use poison, but then they probably didn't expect much leniency if caught. Which is why they were so good at avoiding it.

NMF, and TH, I suppose that I want you to be aware that possessing poison and using death magic could leave you vunerable to people who wish to eliminate you from the picture. Giving them a stick to beat you with is another way of putting it. I'm not trying to kill the idea. I like the concepts and think that they fit the world beautifully. If I do it right, it will make for some really interesting gaming. But I want to make sure you know where I am coming from.

Thought on the Emperor

The Emperor has not been seen outside the Imperial Castle in 200 years. But what is 200 years to one who is divine? There have been two Shogun who have suggested that the Emperor is dead and attempted to claim his power for themselves. They both died messy deaths. But then, many Shogun do. The people know that the Emperor lives. The Emperor knows. The Emperor rules. The Emperor protects. So is the Kingdom of Harmony.

***

NMF, the family background is good. I'm going to connect your father to the House Oe in some way. This will explain your characters presence in Castle Oe. As for Craft, dropping the gp-sp conversion seems to be the best fit, but I think self crafted item are going to cost more than just the 1/3 for materials. Workplaces, assistants, errors and the opportunity cost of the time required are all going to add to the cost to some degree. 1/2 seems more reasonable. Is it a spear or longspear? I'm going to rule that your character has never spoken in the tongue of the 'Horde'. Much like the classic greek scholars today. They can read the language but can only guess who it was spoken/pronounced.

TH, at this point, the sect you belong to is not officially acknowledged or generally known. Rumours may exist amoung the Buke, particularly as you get closer to Kyoto (the Emperor's city), but as many will scoff at it as will believe. You should consider having some skills/abilities that will allow you to maintain your 'cover'. BTW, how do you see Evil? To be honest, personnally, I would prefer not to have evil characters. You should also expect to work without support much of the time - temples of your sect will be rare (obviously).


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 11, 2004)

I realize that I'm sort of "giving my enemy a stick to beat me with," but I think that sort of adds to the interest.  That is, after all, the reason he left the Middle Kingdom in the first place.

Rokuro would normally seem to be just another mercenary for hire, he keeps his "special" talents closely hidden.

Also, add to the character sheet that Rokuro also has a (non masterwork) rapier for when a longspear isn't appropriate or useful.


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## doghead (May 12, 2004)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> I realize that I'm sort of "giving my enemy a stick to beat me with," but I think that sort of adds to the interest.  That is, after all, the reason he left the Middle Kingdom in the first place.
> 
> Rokuro would normally seem to be just another mercenary for hire, he keeps his "special" talents closely hidden.
> 
> Also, add to the character sheet that Rokuro also has a (non masterwork) rapier for when a longspear isn't appropriate or useful.




I justed wanted to make sure that we were all generally on the same page. So, were looking good. A second weapon would be handy. Does Rokuro dress in 'japanese' or 'chinese' style?

Progress report. Cannibal has kinda dropped off the radar. DrZ has been a little quiet of late what with various things, but I don't think he will need much time to get his character sorted if its a straight monk gestalt. Ferrix has the bones of his character in place. TH and NMF look fairly set. I think we are looking good to get started by the weekend. I'll go with four and bring Cannibal on board later if necessary.

BTW, do you have any preferences for login abbrievations? For example, dog rather than DH, or some such.

Can I get email addresses from everyone. Either post up here (I'll let you know as soon as I get it so you can get it down asap) or email me -

doghead206 at netscape dot net​


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 12, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> Thoughts on the Samurai]




Hmm.  Hiraku would probably be a son of a buke family reverently donated to the Emperor's service at birth (or perhaps his parents died, and he was taken in).  In any case, it matters little; although of noble birth, Hiraku was stripped of any rights to family title or property when he was tithed.  He serves only for the glory of the Emperor.



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> NMF, and TH, I suppose that I want you to be aware that possessing poison and using death magic could leave you vunerable to people who wish to eliminate you from the picture. Giving them a stick to beat you with is another way of putting it.




Yup, that's what I meant to suggest with my post. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> Thought on the Emperor




Kickin'.  Sounds good.



			
				dogead said:
			
		

> TH, at this point, the sect you belong to is not officially acknowledged or generally known. Rumours may exist amoung the Buke, particularly as you get closer to Kyoto (the Emperor's city), but as many will scoff at it as will believe.
> 
> You should also expect to work without support much of the time - temples of your sect will be rare (obviously).




All as expected.  I expect his only contact with his cult will be to recieve orders (by some cloak-and-dagger message transfer or by _Animal Messenger_, which is a 2nd level cleric spell that recruits a sparrow or something to carry a letter to a recipient for you).  

If it actually becomes an issue that he's a death cultist (i.e, someone notices him, catches him, or whatever) he's already screwed up unimaginably and will probably beg his superiors for the right to die gloriously on some impossible mission.   If you want this to be my motive, it could have already happened, come to think of it.  In any case, he'll be among the first to scoff at rumors of a death cult.  "What a ludicrous idea!" etc.



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> You should consider having some skills/abilities that will allow you to maintain your 'cover'.




Good point.  Switched Con and Int for extra skill points and put them into bluff.  Also switched out Stealthy for Deceptive (+2/+2 hide/move silently vs. +2/+2 Bluff/Disguise).  Combined with a _Hat of Disguise _ (_change self _ at will, for +10 to disguise checks), he should be good at denying everything.  If required, he can extend that denial to his own existance with _Invisibility._ 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> BTW, how do you see Evil? To be honest, personnally, I would prefer not to have evil characters.




Right, I can see the worry.  I know how he's going to act; I just don't know how its going to be defined by the D&D sytem.   Here's how I see his honor code working:

The Emperor is Divine, and those who oppose him deserve no mercy or consideration from his agents.  They will be slaughtered like so much cattle.  (_moooo...._)  Outside of this mandate, however, one must act as befits someone acting for His Imperial Divinity, not engaging in any base acts like cowardice or murder of those who pose no threat either to one's person or the Emperor.

So he won't be slaughtering babies or nothin'.  But he'll do whatever it takes to complete his mission- if an innocent maid has the poor fortune to stumble upon him while he infiltrates, he'll (while cursing his own incompetence) reluctantly kill her before she can give his position away.  He is willing to give his life in the Emperor's service at any time, and asks nothing less of any member of the great Kingdom of Harmony.

Here's his latest stat block.  The most likely route for advancement is to just keep on going Cleric/Expert (if it ain't broke, don't fix it- all the skills I need plus spells that will allow me, to borrow a phrase from (contact)'s story hour, to _kill the sh-t out of them._), with skill-booting feats like Alertness, Stealthy, and so on (and perhaps toughness if I keep on getting my head handed to me).  I don't forsee any metamagic or further item creation feats, but that might change.  In any case, that should tide me over for some time to come.

E-mail is in my profile: ternashandrik at yahoo.com

*Hiraku Mutsouru*
Cleric/Expert 3
Cleric/Warior 1
*Soak:* 5 (+1 constitution, +4 armor)
*Initiative:* +7
*Speed:* 30 ft.
*Defense bonus:* +6 (+3 BAB +3 Dex)
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +3/+3
*Attack:* +6 melee (1d4, dagger) or +6 melee (1d10, katana) or +6 ranged (1d4, dagger)
*Space/Reach:* 5 ft./5 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Rebuke Undead 2/day, Spontaneous Inflict, Death Touch (4d6)
*Special Qualities:* None
*Saves:* Fortitude +5, Reflex +4, Will +7
*Abilities:* Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 14, Wis 17, Cha 8.
*Skills (Bonus/ranks):* Bluff +8/7, Climb +6/6, Concentration +7/6, Disguise +11/0, Hide +10/7, Knowledge: Religion +8/6, Listen +10/7, Move Silently +12/7, Spot +10/7, Sense Motive +9/6
*Feats:* Deceptive, Improved Initiative, Craft Wondrous Item
*Equipment:* _Studded Leather +1_ (1185), 10 daggers (20 gp), 2 _Wands of Cure minor Wounds_ (750), _Sandals of Silent Moves +2_ (200)*, _Hat of Disguise_ (1,000)*,  _Prayer Beads of the Unseen_ (_Invisibility_ 2/day, 2,160)*, 77 iron pieces remaining, Katana
*Languages:* Common, Yanagi, Secret Cult Language

Spells per day: 5/4+1/3+1
Spells prepared: 0- _Cure Minor Wounds_ x2, _Detect Magic, Guidance, Detect Poison._ 1st- _Shield of Faith, Doom, Divine Favor, Magic Stone, Cause Fear_* 2nd- _Cat’s Grace, Spiritual Weapon x2, Invisibility_*  *Domain spell.  Domains: Death (Death touch 1/day, 4d6) and Trickery (Hide, Bluff, and Disguise are class skills).


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 14, 2004)

Do we have an ETA for the start of this game in IC?


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## doghead (May 15, 2004)

Nac, Ferrix will be away next week, and DrZ unlikely to have his character done til the weekend. So I was thinking I would drop you into the town (Hakata) and leave you to it til I get back. Hopefully I can get that set up over the weekend.

Each of you is going to need to have a connection to the city, and more importantly, the ruling Daimyo's house. (You don't need to do this IC.) The game will kick of with a request for your assistance.

TH, could you let me know what your characters current 'persona' is. In other words, who he appears to be to others.


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## Thomas Hobbes (May 15, 2004)

Right, slightly edited character sheet- made one level Cleric/Warrior, so I could get weapon proficiencies.

His normal cover would be a "nobody," a non-mystical, non-martial arts style wander monk.  But Daimyo's don't recruit nobodies, so I'll do something else.   His cover will be Soshi Tezune, a young Samauri, devotee of the cult of Luck and Trickery.  Since he carries a round a katana all the time, and could theoretically have magic (although he may not have demonstrated any), there's some reason to think he's useful.  

Possible ties to the Daimyo's house are also tricky, because he would avoid drawing attention to himself in his role, so whatever it was would likely be forced upon him- i.e, bandits attack someone important to the Daimyo, and Tezune was walking beside them on the road at the time; conflict necessarily ensues, and Tezune earns some measure of favor.  Perhaps he, in passing, mediates a conflict, and word reaches the Daimyo.  

Perhaps, as part of his cover, he earns a reputation as a great writer of romantic poetry to beautiful noble women; a misattributed love note to the Daimyo's daughter makes the Daimyo think he has a hook in Tezune, and he tries to use this (as a carrot or a stick) to earn his help.  Mutsouru, unwilling to break cover, goes along with it- he can, after all, stop being Tezune any time his duty requires it.


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## doghead (May 15, 2004)

Thanks TH. This gives me enough to work with. 

I presume his style of dress would be that of samurai, or more correctly, a ronin as he would have no _mon_ on his garments.

doghead


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## doghead (May 17, 2004)

Hey all,

I've got the first post most done. DrZ I'm assuming will have his character done soon. Cannibal I suspect has dropped off the map. (Anyone seen CK?) But without Ferrix there doesn't seem much point in laying it all out til he is back, which would mean after I'm back. However, would you like me to get you all gathered into one place so you can amuse yourself and work up some 'threads' between your characters while I am gone?

I've found an excellent sourse of background material at the Sengoku site. Namely, a list of names and titles, some maps of trade routes (land and see) and a glossary. All of the above is the kind of thing you as charcters would probably have some knowledge of, so feel free to browse. I'll post up my own version of this sort of thing as soon as I can as well.

Actually, I was so impressed I bought (well, 'ordered' would be more accurate) the book. I've also ordered the campaign book _Shiki - the four seasons_ for consideration. Please let me know if you have it, have done it, etc. 

I don't plan to use their system, just mine the book.

the head of the dog


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## Nac Mac Feegle (May 17, 2004)

I for one would love to have some time to let the characters talk.  I mean if you just set up the classic "you're all in a tavern" scene and let the characters meet each other that'd be nice.  We wouldn't even really need character sheets.


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## DrZombie (May 17, 2004)

Allright, I'm still interrested but somewhat lacking in time for the moment. I spend the weekend with my wife and nine-month-old son as I hadn't seen much of either in the last week. I'll have to catch up on this thread to see if I can find some hooks for my character. I'm going for a monk, peacefull, serene and kick-ass. Anyway, feel free to start, I can allways hook-up a bit later, and I will get a characer as soon as possible. I can allways charge in  in the middle of a fight. You've got my email, dog-head. You can allways try maartenkuppers add hotmail dot com.


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## doghead (May 18, 2004)

I've opened up an IC thread so you can get give your character some sea trials. As Nac Mac Feegle mentioned, you don't really need completed character sheets for this.

[ic] Kore | Kingdom of Harmony​
DrZ - I'm working on the asumption that you are still on board. I'd rather have you start at the beginning than later. I have much less control over when I can get you in once things kick off. The game proper won't kick off til late I get back late next week. Hopefully, that should give you enough time. Please keep me informed of any changes.

cheers

the head of the dog


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## DrZombie (May 18, 2004)

I'm still on board, although my brain feels like it has turned into porridge and my throat is sore from too many ciggies, wich is the usual sensation I get after working for 36 hrs straight. Will try to make a character today if I don't fall into a coma.


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## doghead (May 18, 2004)

Hey DrZ. As mentioned, all you really need is an idea and a rough outline if you want to get on the ic thread at this point. I will kick the game proper off when I get back next week, so you have some time. 

Everyone. Regarding the ic thread, you will obviously have to handle the NPC's/outcomes amoung yourselves. Don't do anything to another PC (or my setting) that you wouldn't like having done to yours, and it should be fine. 

doghead


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## DrZombie (May 18, 2004)

Bugger, there goes the bathroom scene with the three eighteen-year old nymphomaiacs...... Life's hard.


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## DrZombie (May 18, 2004)

I'll go for a mystic monk, i think. Youngest son of the damio's brother, educated at the temple and seeking enlightenment. He has been called back to his family in this time of need, and honour and duty command him to take up his rightfull place. He still longs for the quiet, peacefull life in the monastary, but he is determined not to be disgraced.

Something like that. As a monk/adept, I'll have acces to arcane magic, no? I'll try to select spells that go with the concept, as I don't see a magic-missile throwing monk. I'll go for more subtle thinghies. On Legend of the five rings, wich is an oriental fantasy setting, magic comes from interaction with the kami, elemental spirits. I'l assume that mystic monks see and have interaction with these spirit, and therefore can do magic. An "invisibility" spell would be a request to the kami of air to cloack my body, while the healing spell would be a request to the water kami to repair my body, stuff like that. 

AS a matter of fact, I'm totally unsure wether or not adepts do arcane magic, I'll have to check tonight.

Need sleep.


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## doghead (May 18, 2004)

Off the top of my head - they use spells like a cleric. So divine magic I think. Still, it can fit with elemental forces concept. I'll give it a closer look.

You should get that sleep.

doghead.


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## DrZombie (May 19, 2004)

Have slept a few hours, back at work (well...). Anyway, I head a look at my books yesterday and decided to play a mystic monk.

I have a few questions/house rules thinghies.

- Trip with an opposed STR check to me makes no sense at all. It might work when you're doing some american wrestling, but "soft" martial arts should use opposed DEX checks, or DEX vs STR or DEX, imo.

- Can I have a look to see if I can find a more logical spell list for a mystic monk? I'm happy to take the adept spell list as it is if you don't want to change anything, but to me it seems that there are a few spells missing(magical fang) and a few that are not quite fitting with the concept of a mystic monk(flaming hands, prot vs law).

- I've got a raven familiar. According to the PHB it can speak one language  . Do I play it as a cohort kinda thingie and do you occasionally take it over as you see fit (during combat and stuff), leaving me to do the RP'ing, or do you controll it all the time, or a weird mixture of both that we make up as we go along?


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## DrZombie (May 19, 2004)

About the raven : maybe I can find someone silly enough to play a raven familiar? If he/she drops out we could allways find someone else or take it over.... Might be fun.


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## doghead (May 19, 2004)

Re Spell list: Actually, I quite like the Protection and Detect clusters. I had a look and generally thought they seem to fit quite well - blesses, bonuses, buffs, protection type stuff with a little flashy combat stuff (but not overly powerful). Leave it as is for the mo'. We'll use the prologue as a sea trials then look at any alterations that we want in before starting any extended campaign. Save you a bit of work as well.

BTW, could you choose two clerical domains for your sect - all buddist monk sects have two primary domains. (These could be used as a basis for any spell list revision if we go with one.)

Re the Raven: You say what you want it to do. I'll say what it does. Something like that I suppose. I suppose that I read up onfamiliers.

Re Trip: Again, my inclination is to leave it as is for the moment, but I'll look at it more closely when I get back. Dex might make more sense with the Dex to hit varient of the rules.

OK everyone, thats about it from me. Cheers and see you in a week.

doghead


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## DrZombie (May 23, 2004)

I'll be on holidays from the 28th of may till the 14th of june. I'll think of you guys when I'm laying in the sun next to my swimming pool in southern france. Cheers.


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## doghead (May 27, 2004)

Hey all.

Have a great time DrZ.

Nac, Ferrix and TH. I'd like to get the game started asap. Give me a day or two to get sorted at this end, then we'll roll. I'll bring DrZ in when he gets back.

Off to the IC thread to see what I can see ...


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## Ferrix (May 28, 2004)

*Takumi Hideaki (bard 4//warrior 4)*

Name: Takumi Hideaki 
Class: Bard 4//Warrior 4
Race: Human
Soak: 6 (+1 con, +5 armor)
Initiative: +4
Speed: 30 ft.
Defense bonus: +9 (+4 BAB, +4 Dex, +1 shield)
Base Attack/Grapple: +4/+6
Attack: rapier +10 melee (1d6+3) or kukri +9 melee (1d4+2)
Full Attack: rapier +8 melee (1d6+3)/kukri +7 melee (1d4+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: 
Special Qualities: None
Saves: Fortitude +5, Reflex +8, Will +3
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 18 (+1 at level 4), Con 13, Int 16, Wis 9, Cha 18
Skills (70sp, 7/3.5): Bluff +11 (7 ranks), Concentration +8 (7 ranks), Diplomacy +17 (7 ranks), Disguise +13 (7 ranks), Gather Information +11 (7 ranks), Knowledge (nobility) +10 (7 ranks), Perform (poetry) +11 (7 ranks), Sense Motive +6 (7 ranks), Spellcraft +10 (7 ranks), Use Magic Device +11 (7 ranks)
Feats: two-weapon fighting, improved buckler defense,  wf: rapier
Bard Abilities: bardic music, bardic knowledge, countersong, fascinate, inspire courage +1, inspire competence,
Spells per day (3/3/1)
Spells known (6/3/2): ghost sound, detect magic, lullaby, prestidigitation, daze, read magic, charm person, sleep, tasha's hideous laughter, hold person, alter self
Equipment (5400ip total): buckler (15ip), +1 rapier (2320ip), kukri (8ip), mithril chain shirt +1 (2100ip), 

Languages:

Appearance:

Personality:

Background:

...will finish tomorrow


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## doghead (May 29, 2004)

Sorry about the delay in getting moving. I'm almost there hopefully.

I've drafted up a template for use in the rogues gallery. Please note _magic item in italics_. Any other suggestions?


*Name*
Gender Race Class/Class Level

*Height:* x'xx" 
*Weight:* xxxlbs 
*Eyes:* xxx
*Hair:* xxx
*Age:* xx

*Initiative:* +x (Dex, Other)
*Speed:* xx ft. (xx ft. in Armour or with gear)
*Soak:* x (Con, Armour)
*Defense:* +x (BDB, Size, Shield, Other)
*Attack/Damage* +x (BAB, Size, Other) / +x (Str, Size, Other)
*Attack:* weapon +x melee (xdx+x, xX) or weapon +x melee (xdx+x, xX) or weapon +x ranged (xdx+x, xX, xx ft.)
*Full Attack:* xxx
*Space/Reach:* x ft./x ft.
*Special Attacks:* xxx
*Special Qualities:* xxx
*Saves:* Fortitude +x, Reflex +x, Will +x
*Abilities:* Str xx, Dex xx, Con xx, Int xx, Wis xx, Cha xx
*Skills:* name rank/+bonus.
*Feats:* xxx
*Languages:* xxx.
*Equipment:* Weapon (x lb.), Armour (x lb.), Worn/Carried Item (x lb.), Backpack [Item (x lb.), Item (x lb.)], Pouch [Item (x lb.), Item (x lb.)], Coin.

*Appearance:* 

*Personality:* 

*Backstory:*


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## doghead (Jun 1, 2004)

The Rogues Gallery thread is up here.

Just a quick note on IC conventions. 
* ooc: "size=1" for ooc comments
* _Italics for thoughts_
* "Speaking marks for anything spoken."
* No colours please. There are a number of skins with different background colours, so what is ledgible for you might be near invisible for someone else.

If possible, please note any concerns and intentions your character has when posting your character's actions. Intentions are not set in stone, of course. But this really helps prevent misunderstandings, as well as speeds things up.

And finally, please feel free to post up here any concerns or questions that you may have. I firmly believe that its my job to create something that allows everyone to have fun. One down side of PbP is that, unlike in an 'around the table game', its almost impossible to know how people are feeling unless they step up and say so.

cheers

the head of the dog


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## doghead (Jun 4, 2004)

I don't want to let the ic thread sit inactice for more than 2 days. So after 48 hours, I'll move it along. (Thats one of the reasons why knowing your characters intentions is useful.)

I'll give Ferrix til we finish the 'intro' to post up, otherwise I'll assume that he has dropped out. Ferrix - if this is the case, could you post up to say so. 

That would also go for Cannibal, but I don't think that we are going to get that courtesy at this point. Oh well.

This prologue should be fairly short. At the end of it we'll consider any alterations we would like to see made. So keep a list of suggestions somewhere (I have already started mine.) Or would you prefer to post them up here as you think of them?


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## doghead (Jun 4, 2004)

I'm going to borrow an idea from Isida Kep'Tukari. 

All magic items have names. Once you know the name/identity of the item*, it is possible that the item will reveal itself to have additional powers. These will manifest themselves as you grow in experience (ie as you gain levels).

So if you wish to name your items and give them some background, I'll consider what 'lies beneath' so to speak. You are welcome to make suggestions, but I'm not promising anything. I'm more likely to be swayed by the description/backstory than anything. I won't reveal what additional powers the items have at this point, you'll know have to wait until they actually manifest themselves.

* not exactly sure how this will work at this point. Maybe the name will be reveal itself after possession of the item for a sufficiently long time. Or perhaps some form of identificatio/spellcraft/knowledge check would be required (probably through one of the temples). Or perhaps some combination of both.


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## Ferrix (Jun 4, 2004)

I should probably cut out, too many games going on that I'm in, sorry for the drag along.  Plus summer and real life kicking back into gear, it's a bit harder for me to keep up with everything at once.

Thanks though.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jun 4, 2004)

Hmm, would this be retroactive (say if I get my spear enchanted later...), and if so should I make a background now?


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## doghead (Jun 5, 2004)

Hey Ferrix

Sorry to hear that - I was looking forward to throwing your bard into the mix. Lots of useful skills there. Anyway, thanks for letting us know. Feel free to drop back down the track. And have a great summer.

the head of the dog.

Nac Mac Feegle: It wouldn't need to be retroactive for magical weapons that you create as they come into existance when you create them. Although, in this case I'm not sure whether there would be any layers, or if their were, how they would be created/evolve. I hadn't really got that far in my thinking ...

OK. How about this. The additional ablities of magical item represents a kind of synergy of energies that developes between the owner and item. A kind of harmony. One option would to give the items an underlying alignment. The extent of the synergy will depend upon how close to the items alignment the owner is. Consider a _+1 Ring of Protection_ called Summer Storm. Its Chaotic Good in essence, so it will respond best to chaotic good characters perhpas manifestion a new power after a couple of level increases. It will also respond to good and chaotic characters to a lesser degree, and more slowly - perhaps after 3 or four level increases. But to characters with neither these elements (Good or Chaotic), it will only ever be as originally created, a _+1 Ring of Protection_. 

Of course, this will mean that I would need to bring alignment back into play (usually I just ignore it). However, I would still play these in a very loose way. Alignments are not detectable ordinarily, they are not straightjackets. A good person can do cruel things, and an evil person can do good things. Rather, I would use them as an indication of the characters underlying nature.

OK. So its all a bit rough and ready at the moment. Thoughts?


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## doghead (Jun 5, 2004)

I have a shell who's ghost has had to withdraw. The character is Takagi Hideaki, a Bard/Warrior4 gestalt. see #108 above.

I've decided to throw the shell into the ic thread introduction in case anyone wants to step up and step in. (If no one does, I'll just have him decline the offer and that'll be the end of him ... er, it.)

The Appearence, Personality and Description sections are all blank slates. But I don't want to put the ic thread on hold to allow time for the character to be rebuilt. Minor alterations are fine if they can be done quickly, but as soon as the first dice is rolled, thats how the character stays.

If you are interested, post up here.


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## Thomas Hobbes (Jun 7, 2004)

Doghead- the evolving items sounds like a really cool idea, and a way to bring up treasure counts if someone's lagging.


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## doghead (Jun 7, 2004)

Thank, I stole it from Isida/Ray Silver. It also goes some way towards overcoming the item upgrade syndrome - where magical items are constantly upgraded for better ones as the characters improve. Particularly in this setting, one doesn't just discard a sword lightly.

I was thinking of maybe having a primary (the one fisrt manifest and revealed by an identify spell), secondary (the next power manifest - will appear for characters that share an alignment element with the item) and tertiary (the last power to manifest, and usually only for those sharing the same alignment) power. This does limit things a bit, but also adds an extra dimension to the items/play (ie - evil items). Anything you  have created will reflect your alignment, so long as that of the spellcaster's alignmnet is along similar lines. ie a LG spellcaster can't/won't create a CE item.

You will probably be able to get insights into the item through Spellcraft and spells and study.


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## Thomas Hobbes (Jun 7, 2004)

So how does this affect the stuff I've self-crafted, if at all?  We never actually pinned down my alignment (it sort of depends on how you lable "willing to do _anything_ for the emperor"), but whatever they are they're the same as me.


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## doghead (Jun 7, 2004)

In the case of stuff you have created yourself, its irrelevent. The item will automatically reflect your nature, alignment, ideas whatever. Only if you had a massive change in attitude or thinking would there be a problem of disharmony.

Off the top of my head I don't remember which item you have. But once you have named them (if you choose to) please give a brief backstory as to how (and when) it came into your possession.

On the topic of alignment, I would peg your character as Lawful Neutral - the Emperors word is law and you follow it faithfully. Good and evil are just methods - both of which have their advantages and disadvantages. Although perhaps your character would prefer to use more functional terms - compassion and cruelty, generosity and brutality.


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## doghead (Jun 8, 2004)

Just a not to say I have written Takagi out of the introduction and am formally closing the slot.

TH and Nac, we'll run with two til DrZ comes back. It should make for a faster game. Sorry about the delay in moving things on, I wanted to leave the slot open til the weekday crowd had had a chance to check in and post up.

As I mentioned in another thread, I been feeling a bit ... scattered, distracted, disolute recently. So apologies if the game has felt a bit erratic.

the head of the dog


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## DrZombie (Jun 14, 2004)

I'm back from my exhausting two weeks of drinking red wine, swimming and looking at old villages in france. I'll try to post my character asap.


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## doghead (Jun 14, 2004)

Welcome back DrZ. The other two (TH and NMF) are just about to leave the inn. I was planning to have your character on the way to the monastery himself and meet up with Rukuro and Tezune on the road. You all have met in the park on the hill, which should be enough to open a conversation. If you have any other suggestions let me know.

I've thought about it again - feel free to draw up an alternate Adept spell list from the cleric spell list and include it for consideration.

Just a reminder to everyone to let me know if you have any thoughts on names and powers for your magic items. I'll going to try and finalise that soon.


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## doghead (Jun 20, 2004)

I've added a short section on Travel by Land in the Kingdom. Initially, you will be travelling west along a fairly main road that connects Hakata to Karatsu. But after about a day, you will be going south where there is nothing other than villages. As ronin (especially a foreign ronin should Rukuro be dressed in the chinese style Nac), you will rank under just about everybody but the commoners. Tonsured monastics have no caste as such. Courtasy will dictate that most treat them with respect, or at least as an equal if the other is of significant standing themselves.

Notes on priests: the Sohei are priests who have selected the way of the warrior over that of magic. (ie monk rather than cleric). Regular priests are called So. Komuso are followers of the f uke sect (not sure how this will fit in yet) who wear the basket headgear so beloved by spies everywhere. Bozu are Buddist monks who have taken vows of celebacy and eat no meat , Ama are the female equivelant. Kannushi are the Shinto priests - mostly its a part time position, they still live and work amoung the community. 

I'm going to give some thought as to how this should corrolate with the regular classes and update the information post (eventually). For the moment, just  go with what seem to fit best.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Jun 29, 2004)

Just a quick shameless self-promotion here:

I'm starting a fantasy d20 modern game at http://enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=92827 and am looking for players.


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## doghead (Jun 29, 2004)

*Magic Items*

I've drafted up names for the items you did not create yourself. 

TH: You can do it for items Hiraku created himself. Just give me an english name - i'll create the bastardised japanese derivative with a little help from Mr Yohan's Little Red Book. I couldn't see most of them in the SRD so I'll need an indication of the level at which he can first create the item.

*Rukuro*

> _Detarame no Tebukuro (Random Glove)_
Initial Aspect (L2): Gauntlet of Deception: +3 to bluff

*Hiraku*

> _Saiko no Tamashii (Highest/Sovereign Soul)_
Initial Aspect (L2): +1 Studded Leather Armour.

LX indicates the level that you were when you obtained the items (in both cases here Level 2).

I am going to need an Alignment indication for your characters. This will determin the rate at which the second aspect manifests, and whether a third one does at all.

the head of the dog.


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## doghead (Jul 22, 2004)

There hasn't been any [ic] activity here since last month. So I am going to pull the plug.

the head of the dog.


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