# Thieves World



## Crothian

Welcome to my Thieves World thread.  Thieves World is a series of books, short stories actually, written in the 80's.  THe following site is very informative on all things Thieves World:

http://www.geocities.com/jillari1/menu.htm

I'm going to be slowly, very slowly, working on converting some old notes and new ideas into a d20 Thieves World game.  I'm going to be posting them here and people can comment, critique, and critize.  

First, I will be starting the campaign a few weeks or months before the first book starts.  So, Sanctuary will be roled by the Pirates and othe none good doers, and the PCs will experience the taking over by the Rankan Prince.  Another thing, I doubt this will be as dark as the books.  No one in the books has a happy ending, well almost no body.  So, while it's important to establish the random acts of violence and hav a few dead bodies show up and have a few living ones missing, that won't be the norm for the players.  Sure, they may be attacked and be the cause for the dead bodies, but I really don't want them to be the dead bodies.  

So, this is the start.  More to follow at some point.  I'm be mostly talking about character creation as that's probably the most important thing to begin with.  No characters, no game.


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## Crothian

NM


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## Crothian

So, for my games I like each player to develop a concept first. These character concepts can be like those presented in the quintessential books for those who like them, but it isn't needed. The players in my games start out dirt poor and at the end of a long hook. People are usually in Sanctuary for two reasons. 

1) They came here and are unable to leave

2) They are here to escape something

There are people who live in Sanctuary by choice, and like it. So, maybe that's a third option, but not as fun. I start the characters out poor, really poor.  They live in Downwind and have a few coppers to their name. They might have an iron pot and a few bowls to fix food, and maybe a dagger or sharpened stick to defend them. 

There are only humans for people to choose for a race, but there are a few different types. The most common are the Ilsigi and the Rankan. The Ilsigi are the most common, since they came down here for Sanctuary to get away from the conquering Rankans. There are some Rankans down here hiding, hunting others, or just trying to get by. That is before the Rankans come down and conquer Sanctuary, when that happens there will be more Rankans around and still not as many as Ilsigs. 

Rankan 
Attributes: No modifications
Medium Sized
30ft base speed
1 extra feat at first level
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Automatic Language: Rankan (possible Royal Rankan as well)
Favored Class: Any

Ilsigi
Attributes: +2 Con, -2 Str
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
1 extra feat at first level
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Automatic Language: Ilsig
Favored Class: Any

S'Danzo
Then there are the S'Danzo. A race of gypsy like people never staying anywhere to long, always ready to leave at a moments notice. Playing one of these people will give the advantage of having others you can trust, as the S'Danzo basically take care of their own. However, the other S’Danzo might require certain things from you and decide whom you should and should not associate with.  They are also very close knit and might not except the S'Danzo's friends.
Attributes: +2 Cha, -2 Str
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
Females have Divination abilities (work in progress)
Males have other abilities (work in progress)
Perform is always a class skill
Automatic Language: S'Danzo, one of choice
Favored Class: Bard

Caronne
There are also the Caronne. They are from west side of the content, north of Ilsig. They are known for their art and philosophy. The finest wines and silk are imported from these people. So, there are few who would actually stay in Sanctuary, but it is a fun race to explore.
Attributes: +2 Dex, -2 Wis
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
+2 to any two Charisma based Skills (players choice)
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Languages: Caronne
Favored Class: Any

Raggah
The Raggah are desert dwellers. They tribes that are large extended families. They speak their own language, rarely any other. Very, very few people not of the Raggah know their language. Occasionally, a single or pair will come into the bazaar to buy something. They rarely speak, and only to each other. Mostly, though, when the Raggah need things they raid caravans and the city itself.
Attributes: +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
Proficient in Scimitar and Short Composite Bow
+2 to Ride and Handle Animal skills (Both are always a class skill)
Mounted Combat feat
+4 to resist thirst and heat in a desert
Languages: Raggah (They rarely speak any other language)
Favored Class: Fighter

Northern Barbarian (Name unknown at this time) 
The mountain Barbarians are large people, built to fight and live in hostile mountains. They are also not conquered by the Rankan. They come and go from Sanctuary as they please. They also where armor and carry large weapons. One of the few people to be able to do so and not get harassed by the guards, at least not the ones who know what's good for them.
Attributes: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -4 Cha 
30ft Base Speed
+2 intuit Direction, +2 intimidate, +2 wilderness lore
Endurance, Toughness feat
Languages: Barbarian
Favored Class: Barbarian

Nisibisi
The Nisibisi are a mysterious race of humans that live mostly behind the Wizard Wall. The Wizard wall is at the top of the continent and one of the few places the Rankan has yet to conquer. They are a magic using people, and summon demons to through at their enemies. 
Attributes: +2 Int, -2 Con
30ft Base Speed
+2 Spellcraft and Concentration checks
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Language: Nissi
Favored Class: Wizard

Other Races:
Winged Folk of the North
Sumese
Cirdonian
Troll
Firaquan
Tysian
Syrese
Sumarian
Achadian
Napatan
Sherranpip
Mygdonian
Cadite
Azehur
Beysib
Lizerene
Twanders
Mrsevanders
Auryeshi


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## las

I like those races can I use them. Plus I have made soem changes to my Prc. If your wondering.

Since im make a multy plain place with lots a materials so all the race I have can help. So can I use these (ill change there names).


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## Crothian

NM


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## ColonelHardisson

Nice job so far, Crothian. Keep up the good work.


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## Crothian

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> *Nice job so far, Crothian. Keep up the good work. *




Thanks, it's not as easy as it looks.  There is so little solid info on the races in general.  I can't even find the correct spelling of the Nissi or the name of the Mountain Barbarians.  

Next I'm getting to the classes and how I'm go to alter some and place restrictions on other, while flat out eliminating still others.

Edit: The irony here will be after all this work and my group won't want to play a Thieves World game.


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## las

As I said before some of those races will work for some world ideas I have. Could I use those ill change names and other things if you think thats better.

Always like what you do.


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## Crothian

las said:
			
		

> *As I said before some of those races will work for some world ideas I have. Could I use those ill change names and other things if you think thats better.
> 
> Always like what you do. *




Sorry, I answered it just forgot to type it.  Doh!!  Of course, fill free to use anything I post here or elsewhere.  That is why I post it, so people can use it.


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## las

Thanks didto with my stuff. Think of dino world something I have ben thinking of not much else.


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## Crothian

Classes

A few of the classes do not fit into the world of Thieves World and many of the people written about in Thieves World do not easily fit into classes.  The Paladin should be eliminated as it does fit in with the flavor (plus what would you do when you detect evil and over 50% of the cities population including children and old people turn up evil?). Secondly, clerics are now going to be replaced with Wizards except they have a religious explanation for their power. There is no turning undead, or magical healing.   Also, I use a bunch of supplements and will say what I'm using from where. 

The Bard: I'm using the standard PHB Bard and not the Monte Cook Bard. The MC Bard could be used as it is, but I prefer to have one of much less magical ability. The bard has a few huge changes to it, the biggest being lack of spells.  While the S’Danzo area magical people to some degree I’m using the race and not the class as an explanation of that magic.  To compensate that I raise the skill points up to 6 a level and give them bonus feats at level 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 (feat list pending). I will also be using the great Bardic options presented in Path of Magic. These options will allow the Bard to get back some of its magical abilities in different ways. 

The Druid: While the Druid doesn't seem to fit and no character in TW I've read seemed to be a Druid, I do think it can work. Sanctuary has a large fishing population, so there could be a Druid of the waves. Also, the Raggah could have or know of Druids in the desert.  Or one could even be a Druid of the Sewers with thousands of rats as your companions.  It would be difficult to play one as most of the standard TW game stays in the city, but I believe it is doable. I think having a Druid that aims towards the King/Queen of the Wilds prestige class from Masters of the Wild would work pretty well.

Fighter: The Fighter is unchanged.  Few fighters though will be able to afford the expensive weapons and armor and welding and wearing these things will only bring unwanted attention to the fighter anyway.  Most fighters will be interested in fighting employment through the Mercenaries guild.

Monk: How does a monk fit? The Answer is with Quintessential Monk. They having options to make wrestlers and boxers, both of those fighting styles fit very well in Sanctuary. I allow any type, it's just the person would be from a far off land. I also like to feature underground fighting tournaments, so these characters can really shine and make a name for them in this type of arena. Or one can swap out a few of the monk abilities for feats as suggested in Oriental Adventures.  

Ranger: For them I'll be using one of the non-casting variants out of Path of the Sword or Player’s Guide to Kalamar. I'm just doing this to get rid of the spellcasting abilities. The Ranger is more of a wilderness type, but there is plenty of that around Sanctuary, just not the forest type.  The two weapon fighting style actually fits well within Sanctuary.  Tracking through the streets and sewers, though will be next to impossible.   

Rogues: Totally unchanged. It is Thieves World after all. I do recommend using Quintessential Rogue and Traps and Treachery for some great rogue options. The Roofrunner prestige class from T&T is perfect for this setting as are many of the new uses for old skills in QR.

Sorcerer: These guys I leave unchanged as well. They do come with a warning though. Show your spellpower to often and you'll get kidnapped and become a servant to one of the powerful people in Sanctuary.  

Wizard: Wizards are also unchanged except they don't start as Wizards usually. You have to join the Guild to get the training, so it has to be multi classed into later in life. The Nisibisi are the exception, as can be player character.  However, they need to join the guide to have access to research new spells. Being a Wizard takes lots of money, a thing that PCs generally don't have. Priests of the temples work like Wizards as well, except players can't become priests so I really don't have to define them that closely. Also, few Wizards use material components, so the Eschew Materials Met Magic Feat.  

I also suggest characters have the skills to do something as a day job. Fisherman, cut purse, beggar, performer, manual laborer, scribe, or servant all work well. I do give out 4 free skill points to be places in a profession, craft, knowledge, or to be made literate. Which reminds me. Everyone starts out illiterate in Sanctuary. 

I also will give PCs an extra feat or two of my choosing at first level. I know you might think that sounds powerful, but I'm not handing out feats like power attack and cleave. I'm thinking along the lines of a skill focus, toughness, improved unarmed strike, endurance, run, or other lower tier feat to give them a little edge. In sanctuary you need an edge.

Prestige Classes Unique to Sanctuary
Stepson
Order of the Blue Star
Hawkmask
Nisibisi Witch
Free Agent
Order of Lizerena
Sacred Bander
Bandaran Adept
Harka Bey
Hell Hound
White Mage
Hazard Class Wizard


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## LrdApoc

*your gaming group*

Well they probably would play this setting, since at least three of us have read some of the books. The whole low magic, harsh reality is something you pull off well I think.

I know I'm up for it. When is the question, not if.


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## Crothian

*Re: your gaming group*



			
				LrdApoc said:
			
		

> *Well they probably would play this setting, since at least three of us have read some of the books. The whole low magic, harsh reality is something you pull off well I think.
> 
> I know I'm up for it. When is the question, not if. *




Thanks, I really have a passion for Sanctuary and I love the characters and situations in it.  I don't know the group well enough to know if it's something they would all like though.  I've brought it up a few times, but I don't seem to get any definant answers out of people.  Even if we never use this setting, this is still something I've been wanting to do since d20 hit the shelves.


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## LrdApoc

*definate answers*

who does get definate answers from this group??

I have broached the subject of Star Wars a few times to much the same aplomb.

Don;t let it faze you. You're a part of the group now, wether you like it or not HAHAHAHA! (insert evil laugh here)


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## Crothian

*Re: definate answers*



			
				LrdApoc said:
			
		

> *who does get definate answers from this group??
> 
> I have broached the subject of Star Wars a few times to much the same aplomb.
> 
> Don;t let it faze you. You're a part of the group now, wether you like it or not HAHAHAHA! (insert evil laugh here) *




Then demand people answer your question.  We can do that Sunday.  We'll corner them and make them discuss things.  It's not that people don't give definate answers, it's that no one requires them too is the problem.  We need a take charge person in the group.


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## Mr Fidgit

some questions, then...

why take the bard's magic away, especially since it's the S'Danzo's favored class? (they're uber-magical, right?)

why limit the fighter's armor and weapon proficiencies? just because heavy armor isn't common, that doesn't mean they're not trained to use it. and there's the problem with the cost - as in, you've got no money to buy the good stuff anyway. and there's the issue of availability. if noone buys heavy armor, no shop keeper would keep it in stock.

wizards: isn't it possible to have a PC already finished with their apprenticeship? this would allow a (starting PC, level 1) wizard in the party, _and_ that PC would have ties to a guild (or be bound to the guild -- plot hook?)

sorcerer: wouldn't a sorcerer have to get training from someone to use their magic? i know they wake up every day with magical energy, but it doesn't mean they know how to cast a spell - if you know what i mean

monk: (kind of) are all the people in TW associated with gladiator fighting (like Jubal) from a foreign land? or is the whole - i used to be slave, but i fought for my freedom - thing happening?

druid and paladin: they suck. they're _broken_!  

an extra feat or two? come on, now. if a person wants to make a PC who's day job is a laborer, then i'd _strongly encourage_ them to take a feat like endurance, but i'd leave it up to the player...(i know this requires putting faith in your players, but _somebody's_ got to do it)

that's enough razzing...er...um..._encouragement_ for now!


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## Crothian

*Questions are Good*



			
				Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *some questions, then...
> 
> why take the bard's magic away, especially since it's the S'Danzo's favored class? (they're uber-magical, right?) *




They aren't uber magical.  The females have divination ability and the males ability is less defined.  I'm making that part of their race, so it doesn't matter what class they choose they will have their abilities. 



> *
> why limit the fighter's armor and weapon proficiencies? just because heavy armor isn't common, that doesn't mean they're not trained to use it. and there's the problem with the cost - as in, you've got no money to buy the good stuff anyway. and there's the issue of availability. if noone buys heavy armor, no shop keeper would keep it in stock.*




Just to show the importance of training.  There's no reason this couldn't be written into the charater's background, either.  



> *
> wizards: isn't it possible to have a PC already finished with their apprenticeship? this would allow a (starting PC, level 1) wizard in the party, and that PC would have ties to a guild (or be bound to the guild -- plot hook?)*




I guess it can be done in the character's background.  Having ties to the guilds is a great thing, and that's why I encourage it.  I've yet to have someone want to play a Wizard, so it isn't something I've had to deal with.  



> *
> sorcerer: wouldn't a sorcerer have to get training from someone to use their magic? i know they wake up every day with magical energy, but it doesn't mean they know how to cast a spell - if you know what i mean*




I always saw the Sorcerer as the self discoverer in magic.  Having a character get trained in its use would not be out of line though.  



> *
> monk: (kind of) are all the people in TW associated with gladiator fighting (like Jubal) from a foreign land? or is the whole - i used to be slave, but i fought for my freedom - thing happening?*




The Gladiatorial slaves are only seen in the large cities like Ranke.  Here in Sanctuary, it's people fighting for money.  You get paid a little to fight, more if you win.  And the betting is very populiar.  Gladitorial slaves can be from anywhere.  Some are gaurds accused of crimes and become slaves to as punsihment, other are debters sold to slavery to pay off the debt, and still others are like Jubal having been captured by slavers.  Any slave can win their freedom, but it is very difficult.  Gladitorial slaves ussually fight to the death, so Jubal was undefeated basically.  



> *
> an extra feat or two? come on, now. if a person wants to make a PC who's day job is a laborer, then i'd strongly encourage them to take a feat like endurance, but i'd leave it up to the player...(i know this requires putting faith in your players, but somebody's got to do it)
> *




Actually, the extra feats are done for a balancing issue. The characters are going to be really poor and face many hazards even a normally equiped first level group might have troubles with.


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## Mr Fidgit

so, to sum up...

S'Danzo are 'gifted',

training is of utmost importance, but

a background can explain away anything D),

there are no gladiators, and there is no fight club,

PCs get extra feats to compensate for the fact that any average street beggar in Sanctuary is a CR 3 encounter,

and there is no fight club.

got it!


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## Crothian

All except back can explain anything away, not anything just a lot.  It really depends on what the other characters are going to do and if it will add orr detract from the game.  

Beggers are not CR 3, well not alone but a bunch are.  However you can run into a Hawkmask as first level and they'll be about CR 7.  

No slave Gladiators, well none that are still slaves.  THey can be escaped or won their freedom though.  There are special holidays when a slave gladiator is brought down to fight one of the local champions though.  

Bonus feats is just something I've thought about doing.  That, like everything else, is not cemented in place yet.

There is no fight club


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## Crothian

Building trust in Sanctuary.

As some people realize, there are not honest people in Sanctuary.  While that is not 100% true, it's darn close.  A stranger who comes into town needs to be wary of everyone, as looking for people to take advantage of is a highly refined art in Sanctuary.  

So, how do the players hope to survive when if they really shouldn't be able to trust each other?  The answer is in the character backgrounds.  First, I stress the guilds and having employment.  This does three things for the character: 1) a source of income 2) contacts who are trustworthy 3) plot hooks.  Now not all the contacts will be trustworthy, but a character should get an idea on who to trust and who not to.  

First off when creating character backgrounds I have the players sit down and work it out together.  It's okay to have characters save the life of others or to offer a helping hand.  While these are rare occurances in Sanctuary, they do happen and they can be used to build to the bounds of friendship between player characters.  Even though cheating and backstabing are par for the course in Sanctuary, I really do try to keep it to minimium among the players.  THey are of course encouraged to cheat and backstab NPCs as they see fit.  

There are two groups in Sanctuary that if you are part of them you can trust almost everyone and they will be there to help you.  The groups are the S'Danzo and the Fishermen.  Both of these groups do not accept people not of their kind, but they do look out for their own.  

The Guilds to a lesser extent can be trustworthy as long as you are in good standing with them.  Guilds are there to oraganize and make money.  A smart character can do the same by taking advantage of the guild.  I use a mercanaries guild, a bardic guild (all none S'Danzo, the S'Danzo don't needa guild), and the Wizard guild.  Now, the Hawkmasks can be seen as the thieves guild, and their are churches that are similiar to guilds.  However, both are unique in the way the do business and both are much more difficult to jion.  The mercanaries guild costs a few silver a week, and the character has to show some aptitude for fighting.  THe bardic guild is a little more expensive, and the person has to perform well in an audition.  The wizard guild is expensive, and is very slevet in who they take.  However, all three guilds will get people jobs as long as you are in good standing with the guild and don't embarres them.


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## Crothian

Equipment

Every week new caravans come into the city and ships dock at the seaport. This ensures that there is a constant supply of new people and plenty of new things to buy. For basic equipment I've found that using Arura's Realm Catalog really adds a little extra something. The Bazaar is filled with people selling neither everything, however to get something of value one needs to know who to ask and how to approach them. Things of real value are rarely kept out in the open for fear of theft. So, when a character wants to hunt through the bazaar to find something I require a Gather Information skill check. This represents a few hours of looking around and asking people the right questions. The DC is usually 20+ depending on what I determine the rarity of the item is. Now, just because the character finds the info doesn't mean it's accurate. He could be being set up for a robbery or even worse. I don't suggest using that too often, and I prefer using something like that after the characters have made some enemies. 

It is very possible that the characters will score a big hit and get a lot of money. They will want to spend it one better weapon. Finding magical weapons can be done, but only the Wizards guild really has the resources to keep and identify magical items. More on magic later. In the bazaar one can find many different grades of weapons. 

Shoddy weapons (detailed in Heroes of High Favor: Half Orcs): These are the common weapons people have because they are cheap. A roll of a natural 1 or even a natural 1-4 depending on just how bad the weapon is, the weapon breaks.

Normal: as the PHB

Masterwork: as the PHB

Carrone steel: Carrone is the best steel on the planet. It offers +1 to attack and +2 damage.  The Harness is 12 and has 20 hp per inch of thickness. It's very rare, hard to make (craft of MW part DC 25) and cost +750gp

Enlibar Steel: This is legendary steel that cannot be made anymore, as the secret has been lost. There are still weapons made of it that can be found and purchased.  Enlibar Steel has a Hardness of 30, 50 hp per inch of thickness, and weapons need to be made of Enlibar Steel or have and enchantment bonus of +4 or higher to harm the weapon. These weapons cost in the thousands and any weapon made of them get +3 to attack, and +3 Damage. 

I also insert special weapons and armor made from special materials. There are some good ones in Magic of Faurun, Spells and Spellcraft, as well as a few other sources I can't recall. 

For general equipment I offer the usual stuff, plus shoddy and superior version. Shoddy usually costs about half and gives a -2 circumstance bonus, and the superior items are usually double or more and add +2 or higher circumstance bonus. Basically those are MW items. 

Magical items are tough to come by in Sanctuary. I allow Stulwig to be able to produce almost any type of alchemical item (there are some great ones in the Dragon Magazines, Spells and Spellcraft, and many other books) and some potions. These are expensive, and Stulwig knows he can charge high prices because no one else can do what he does. In the Bazaar one can find all sorts of so-called magical item. I do have many trinkets that are one use and do provide a small bonus to a roll. Basically a one use luck charm. As always buyer beware. If one is serious about getting magical items the best people to contact are the Wizards Guild and Enas Yorl. The guild will have a good amount of mage-oriented items like scrolls and wands. They might be able to enchant or get something else, but that will take some role-playing. The guild will charge a good amount of money as well as probably ask for a favor in return. Enas Yorl is another matter entirely. One first has to get in to see him, and then convince him to deal with you. He could ask potential anything from the characters. Always a risk, but always a great role-playing opportunity. 

I have all permanent magical items unique. There are no sword+1 or other bland magical items. Relics and Rituals 1 & 2 both have some great weapons with a rich history that can easily be altered to fit here. I also give them all complete descriptions to set them apart from normal items and other magical ones. Magical items are beyond rare, so it's not a lot of extra work to do this. 

Now, if a character wants to craft magical items I'd encourage this. It's expensive and will really add richness to the game. Many people would sell their children (literally) to get magical items. So, it's a great way to make a name for your self as well as plenty of enemies.


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## Crothian

Place holder for my Charisma essay.  I'll also being going back through the above and reposting it all after some heavy revision.  Sorry about the bad quality.


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## Dragongirl

About races. . . What about that one guy Niko, wasn't he from some islands elsewhere?  Or did he only train there?  What about Beysibs?  Also will you differentiate between the 3 basic types of Beysib (royal, and the 2 clans)?

PrCs -  Harka Bey, that fate type wizard with the star insignia which I forget the name of, Nisi Witch . . .


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## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *About races. . . What about that one guy Niko, wasn't he from some islands elsewhere?  Or did he only train there?  What about Beysibs?  Also will you differentiate between the 3 basic types of Beysib (royal, and the 2 clans)?
> 
> PrCs -  Harka Bey, that fate type wizard with the star insignia which I forget the name of, Nisi Witch . . . *




Nikodemus is from a land that is there but is not.  They seem to have a caste or trining that everyone participates in, he is of the warrior persuation of course.  Not much is written about the palce or it's poeple, heck I have no idea were on the darn map it is supposed to be.  

Beysibs are a race that I'm not sure I'm going to mess with.  They come in and conquore Sanctuary and there were a lot of details about them that seemed badly done.  It was like they came in and were more powerful then everyone else.  They were better fighters, had weapons equal to if not better the Enlibar Steel, and had those posionous snakes.  

The Nisibisi Witch will be a prestige class, as they are nasty and evil women.  They enjoy sacrificing and other not so nice methods of increasing their power.


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## Crothian

Attributes and Skills

	Many people have a defiant opinion on stats and what is useful in the average fantasy game.  For whatever reason Dexterity is the stat of choice and Charisma is the dump stat.  In the city of Sanctuary many stats have different uses then many see.

Strength: Strength is well respected in the city of Sanctuary.  Fights are a daily part of the city, and a strong, tough person can easily make a reputation on this.  Also, in the narrow alleys and snake like roads there is little room for ranged combat.  Most of the fights happen toe to toe unless one side as enough time to set up an ambush.  

Dexterity: Being fast and agile is an advantage in Sanctuary.  Most people do not wear armor, so they really on dexterity to keep themselves from getting injured.  Many times the first strike can end a battle before the opponent has a chance to react.

Constitution: The simple answer for this stat is more hit points will allow you to live longer.  However, one area that most other games don’t touch on is disease.  Sanctuary is a dirty place with filth and urine thrown out into the streets daily.  Yes, there are sewers, but they aren’t everywhere, they aren’t in the best conditions, and people are lazy and don’t always walk to dump their refuse into them.  Also, poison is a hobby practiced by many people.

Intelligence: Many smart people realize they need to leave Sanctuary fast.  However, the few that stay can take advantage of the rather dim wittedness of the common man.  The bonuses in skill points are also very important.  Sanctuary is a more skill driven game because of the many chances to use a wide range of skills. 

Wisdom: People are attacked and ambushed if they aren’t paying attention.  Wisdom is the key stat for both spot and listen.  Will saves are also the weakness of many characters, and a good wisdom will help counter this.  

Charisma: People with a low charisma are more likely to be attacked.  Charisma is force and strength of presence, and many people in sanctuary will prey those that seem weak.  Also, people with high charisma will more then likely be able to talk to important people or get better deals at the Bazaar.  

Skills are also very important.  Most people have jobs or at least daily activities like picking pockets or fencing that all require the use of skills.  The ability to not be seen or to be noticing those trying not to be seen can be the difference between life and death.  Getting around all the buildings is always important and skills like Balance, Climb, and Jump will help with that.  Socializing is very important with bartering in the Bazaar, dealing with One Thumb in the Vulgar Unicorn, or even attempting to gain favor with one of the Mage Guild.  I also suggest using the many new uses for old skills that appear in many books.  The Quintessential Rogue is very useful for this as all the new uses fit very well with Sanctuary.


----------



## Crothian

Okay, as of now I have five different sections/essays: Races, Classes, Trust, Equipment, skills and abilities.

If anyone happens to find a new race or orghanization that should becoome a prestige class, please post them and I'll add them to the lists.  Also, I edited most of the above topics adding more info as well as fixing dumb errors.


----------



## Endur

*Interesting conversion ideas*

Interesting Conversion Ideas

Jubal, Niko, ShadowSpawn, Roxane, and Tempus are probably all epic level characters.

The Book of Vile Darkness could come in handy for a Thieves World campaign.  In particular, the section on possession would apply to the Nisi witches like Roxane.  Bestow Greater Curse and some of the other high level black magic spells, etc.  Also, the various costs for spells is very much in keeping with Sanctuary spells.  Likewise, the poisons and drugs that are used in Sanctuary.

With regards to the Prestige classes (stepsons, hawkmasks, commandos, etc.), I agree that those are the organizations that would have prestige classes.

I would probably make "Assassin" a core class instead of a prestige class.  Assassins are all over the place in Sanctuary.

Rankan would probably be the equivalent of Common, with all characters knowing how to speak it (no matter what race).

I'd be interested to hear how your characters are going to work together.  Will they all be a part of the same organization (Stepsons, etc.) or will they just meet in the Vulgar Unicorn?  Will they have similar alignments and goals, or be scattered all over the place?

Tom


----------



## Crothian

*Re: Interesting conversion ideas*



			
				Endur said:
			
		

> *Interesting Conversion Ideas
> 
> Jubal, Niko, ShadowSpawn, Roxane, and Tempus are probably all epic level characters. *




Jubal and Niko might not be, but the other three are.  I'm not sure if I'm going to do NPC write-ups.  They are hard to do since the books give so little concrete information.  I do have the Personalities of Sanctuary which has write ups for them in first edition, but so much has changed since then it will be much more difficult to do.  However, people seem to want them, so I may cave in on this.  



> *
> The Book of Vile Darkness could come in handy for a Thieves World campaign.  In particular, the section on possession would apply to the Nisi witches like Roxane.  Bestow Greater Curse and some of the other high level black magic spells, etc.  Also, the various costs for spells is very much in keeping with Sanctuary spells.  Likewise, the poisons and drugs that are used in Sanctuary. *




Ya, much of this book will be considered core rules.  The demons are the only part that won't be used.  The torture devices will be great for Kurd and I'm sure Jubal has a few people with this ability.  Diseases are also going to be used because Sanctuary is a filthy place.  



> *
> With regards to the Prestige classes (stepsons, hawkmasks, commandos, etc.), I agree that those are the organizations that would have prestige classes.
> 
> I would probably make "Assassin" a core class instead of a prestige class.  Assassins are all over the place in Sanctuary.
> 
> Rankan would probably be the equivalent of Common, with all characters knowing how to speak it (no matter what race).*




There are lots of organizations and may will be difficult to make prestige classes, but I'm going to try.  Assassin as a core class should be okay.  Green Ronin has an Assassin's Handbook that I'm going to look into for that.  I also have an Assassin prestige class that removes the magical abilities of the DMG Assassin and adds in some more mundane abilities.  

I'm using Ilsig as the base language, but most people will speak both.  Ilsigs seem to be the most numerous in the city as a whole, yet in the Palace and the Temple district Rankan and Imperial Rankan will be the normal languages.  



> *
> I'd be interested to hear how your characters are going to work together.  Will they all be a part of the same organization (Stepsons, etc.) or will they just meet in the Vulgar Unicorn?  Will they have similar alignments and goals, or be scattered all over the place?
> 
> Tom *




How the party gets together will depend on what people want to play.  Then I'll sit down with all of them and get them al together.  The last game I played in had four characters: Ilsig fighter/rogue, Corrone fighter, S’Danzo Sorcerer, and an Ilsig Rogue.  Through background development we had the Corrone escaping from Corrone.  He bought passage on a pirate ship the Ilsig Fighter thief was a slave on.  During the journey they became friends and in Sanctuary the Corrone helped the Ilsig escape into Downwind.  Then while the two of them were in the Bazaar they saw the S’Danzo getting beat up by other S'Danzo and the two rescued him.  Finally, the Ilsig Rogue was helped out of a incident with the guards.  This built trust and made it so they had a reason to stay together.  I do a lot with background stories and it really helps to get characters together.  

I prefer relatively good or neutral alignments.  I do not allow party infighting or stealing from each other, as that does not promote fun around the gaming table.  Their goals are usually survive for a while and to get on top of their current situation.  

Thanks for the comments and questions; any others please post!!


----------



## Crothian

Different Sections of Sanctuary

	The people who live there divide the city of Sanctuary into many different areas.  Each section has it’s own feel and it’s own twist on the laws and enforcing them.  The different areas are the Maze, the Bazaar, the Street of Red Lanterns, Downwind, Westside, the Processional, the Jewelers Quarters, the Docks, the Palace, the Avenue of Temples, and the outskirts, which includes the few farms and some of the outlining Noble houses.  

	Downwind: This part of Sanctuary is filled with the poorest of the poor.  There are few true buildings here; most are make shift tents and lean-tos.  The best none building in Momma Leoni’s, a two story bar, the only true business this side of the White Foal River.  While many thieves live here, few people are robbed here as no one has anything to steal.  Downwind is not just filled with the outcast and thieves of Sanctuary.  There are many families force to live here because they have nowhere else to go.  Many commute to the real city to work.  Some comb the beach for driftwood and other valuables that may wash up from time to time.  There are many gangs who claim different areas of Downwind.  They are mostly allowed to do as they please because Jubal, the guards, and other people of power really don’t care what goes on here.  Aside from the random crime, the biggest threat to Downwinders are fires.  Fires will devastate much of Downwind before it’s contained if it is at all.  The temporary houses are very flammable, and while the more stable clay houses don’t burn they do get really hot and trap people in what basically becomes an oven.  It’s called Downwind, because this is the way the wind blows from the smelly West Side.

	The West Side: This is a section of poor people and certain businesses.  This part of town is where all the perfumers, tanners, glue makers and other businesses that produce foul smells.  The West Side is trashiest on the western end and around the maze.  The area near the Processional is rather nice.  This is where Downwinders dream of living one day as it’s usually the next step up for them.  The housing is the cheapest in the city proper, but it is all permanent housing and some even have doors and windows.  Guards actually do some patrolling here, but crime is still pretty high.  Fires are less dangerous here as a more organized effort will be put forth to put the fire out.  The most well known place is Stulwig’s Apothecary.  

	The Bazaar: This is the busiest place in Sanctuary open from sun up till sun down.  While many of the S’Danzo live here in the permanent building by the walls, most people come in every morning and set up their tents and booths.  All sort of thing can be found here to purchase from foods to jewelry to weapons, to day-to-day equipment to even livestock.  There are no set prices on anything as everything is haggled for and prices are determined by who is buying, who is selling, and many other intangible factors.  Pickpockets are the biggest threat to one self here, as there are always guards and others watching out for trouble.  This is the one place that the truly rich and truly poor come and can be seen together.  

	Street of Red Lanterns: This place sells what the Bazaar does not.  The small section is home to the brothels, moneylenders, pawnshops, and gambling halls.  There are also some small merchants who have some of the more interesting things to sell here and there.  The street is well patrolled during the day, but the guards don’t come here much in the evening so it’s a great meeting place.  Myrtis, owner of the Aphrodisia House is the unofficial mayor of this section, as all the other business owners look to her for advice and also organizing them in times of trouble.  

	The Processional: This is the middle class district.  Most of the buildings are two story and people live on top of their shops.  All the buildings here have doors and widows as well as good, solid locks.  The guards patrol here frequently, but crime is still a problem.  There are many typical shops and stores, inns and taverns in this district.  

	The Jewelers Quarters: This is the rich side of town.  All the buildings are very nice, and the streets are basically clean.  This place is heavily patrolled and many of the locals have their own personal guards as well.  People who are poorly dressed and loiterers are not allowed in this section of town.  This is where the Mage Guild is located as well as many of the most notable businessmen.  

	Temple District: This is the area where all the temples are and all the priests live.  There are always guards around as this small section is easily to patrol with a few people. The riff raff is usually not allowed here, except on Godsday when they can come and beg for alms.  

	Palace District: The only way here is past many armed guards and they do not let everyone in.  On certain days the place is opened to take petitions from the commoners, and on those days there are scores of guards out and about.  

	Maze: Only the brave, foolish, or skilled enter this place.  The only guards that come in do so in numbers greater then six, and still only in the bright light of day.  The streets are all small and dark.  There are over hangings and tunnels that cast shadows everywhere.  Dead bodies are left out in the street and the worst crimes go on in the wide open.  This is a place for the thieves and the people they associate with.  Every man is for himself here and might makes right is the only law.  Hawkmasks frequent this area the most.  The Vulgar Unicorn can be found somewhere in here.  

	The Docks: This is the place for the fishermen.  Most of them live in fisherman’s row.  They all know each other and are not nice to outsiders.  An outsider is anyone not in the fishing business.  They are a tight group, and look out for each other.  They provide much of the food for the city; so most people leave them alone.  

	Outskirts: The lands around Sanctuary are either farmland slowly being taken over by the desert or the once great noble houses.  The farmland has been over farmed for decades and unless a miracle or highly competent farmer starts taking care of the land it will all be gone.  The noble houses are a mixed lot.  Some are abandoned and thought to be haunted, others are lived in by actual nobles, and one is Jubal’s estate.  It’s best to know who lives in the one you are visiting before going up to the door.


----------



## Crothian

More on races

It seems that there a rea few races lumped together as Sailing Peoples.  It list the lands of Coronne, Cleea, and Banmalt as examples of lands overseas.  However, according to the map Caronne is on the same land mass, and the only other places not on that contient are The Cold Lands, Scavengers Island (which really need to define as it is very important), Visala Islands, and the Lost Land.  

That info is from the Players Guide to Sanctuary(an RPG suppliment) in case people are wondering.


----------



## Crothian

Okay, enough of this converting other peoples's stuff.  Time to get to the fun stuff, the stuff that came out on my Thieves World games.  Tommorrow I'm going to type up my notes on  *The Pit *


----------



## Waylander

I think what you've done here is excellent - my only comment is that I always saw Niko as a Monk - albeit with different special abilities. It seemed to fit the quasi-religious/philosophical order he belongs to and yet takes into account his martial skills.


----------



## Crothian

Waylander said:
			
		

> *I think what you've done here is excellent - my only comment is that I always saw Niko as a Monk - albeit with different special abilities. It seemed to fit the quasi-religious/philosophical order he belongs to and yet takes into account his martial skills. *




I hadn't thought about it that way.  However, after just reading Tempus I'd have to agree that he is a Monk more then anything.  Well, maybe a Monk Fighter multi class.  Thanks.


----------



## Crothian

Feats

I know, there are too many feats as is, but these all can only be taken at first level.  They aren't meant to be powerful, they are meant to further develope characters.

Downwinder
+1 all Fort Saves, +2 save verse Disease, Starvation, and Thirst

Bazaar Merchant
+2 Bluff, +2 Diplomancy

Street Urchin
+2 Pickpocket, +2 Proffesion Beggar

Fisherman
+2 Proffesion Fishing, +2 Use Rope

Second Story Man
+2 Climb, +2 Balance

Gaurd
+2 Spot, +2 Sense Motive

Merc Trained
+2 Diplomancy, +2 Sense Motive

Mageguild Trained
+2 Concentration, +2 Spllcraft

Maat
Not sure yet


----------



## Waylander

I don't want to labour the point (sorry for raising this again!) but I wouldn't make Maat a feat. Instead I'd weave it into an alternative to the Monk core class.

Also, as an aside, I'd be interested in your opinion on the alignment of Tempus. It does depend on what you read and I've heard many different alignments claimed (particularly chaotic as he is an avatar of the storm gods) but as a whole I've always seen him as lawful neutral. By "lawful" I mean he has his own person code of ethics which he rigidly adheres to as opposed to upholding the prevailing law of the kingdom he happens to be in! In a nutshell, he's harsh but fair (from a certain point of view)!


----------



## Crothian

Waylander said:
			
		

> *I don't want to labour the point (sorry for raising this again!) but I wouldn't make Maat a feat. Instead I'd weave it into an alternative to the Monk core class.*




Harp on a point as much as you want, you're not going to bother me.  With the Maat ability I'm exploring ways of doing it.  I think having it as a feat for only certain characters (those with training in whatever that land is called).  That way it might be possible to have wizards or more traditional fighters have this ability.  Everything posted here is a work in progress, so nothing is set in stone.  If you have a better way or different way of doing anything I've posted here, please say so.  




> *
> Also, as an aside, I'd be interested in your opinion on the alignment of Tempus. It does depend on what you read and I've heard many different alignments claimed (particularly chaotic as he is an avatar of the storm gods) but as a whole I've always seen him as lawful neutral. By "lawful" I mean he has his own person code of ethics which he rigidly adheres to as opposed to upholding the prevailing law of the kingdom he happens to be in! In a nutshell, he's harsh but fair (from a certain point of view)! *




Well, according to the conversation of him in Personalities of Sanctuary he is Neutral Evil.  However, I see him more of a Lawful Evil, but he is all over the place.  I think he's a little to eager to kill people for LN, personally.  He does seem to have his own code, though.


----------



## Waylander

> _originally posted by Crothian_
> Well, according to the conversation of him in Personalities of Sanctuary he is Neutral Evil. However, I see him more of a Lawful Evil, but he is all over the place. I think he's a little to eager to kill people for LN, personally. He does seem to have his own code, though.




I agree. I think it's a tough call between LN and LE. I favour LN because he does a lot of "good" acts. His eagerness to kill could be seen as a "rough justice".


----------



## Crothian

Waylander said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I agree. I think it's a tough call between LN and LE. I favour LN because he does a lot of "good" acts. His eagerness to kill could be seen as a "rough justice". *




Well, there is also all those rapes.  He is cursed to have to do that, but I'm not sure if the reason out weighs the action.  He's a character not easily defined in the alignment scheme.  I think I'll call him Lawful Neutral Evil


----------



## Crothian

The Pit

	In the hidden recesses of the Maze is a place only slightly less known then the Vulgar Unicorn.  The Pit is a place of surprising safety to come and bet on fights and enjoy a cup of cat’s piss with others.  The Pit has been in the Maze for over ten years.  It is the creation of Hardrid, one of the toughest characters to ever wash up on the shores of Sanctuary.  The Pit is a place anyone can come to fight or to watch and bet on the fights.  It has become an organized way for new combatants to make a name for themselves and eventually rise to the price fights and make some real money.  

	The Pit is a two story building and rather non-descript from the outside.  It’s open four evenings out of seven (Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, and Saturday).  Everyone is aware of the Pit, but not as many brave the Maze to go there.  Many would be robbers hang out in the alley ways to the Pit in hope of getting some of the people as they go there and come back.  So, many of the people travel in packs and safety in numbers is usually successful.  

	At the door are two large bouncers.  Everyone who is here to watch the fights must pay a copper piece to get in, more for special events.  Fighters get in free and are taken to the basement to wait their turn.  The Patrons are shown upstairs to the standing room they have to look down and watch the fight.  All the fights happen in the basement.  One can look from the second floor all the way down.  On the first floor are the box seats where the high rollers are.  Only people who own a box seat or are invited by them can be on this level.  There are waitresses that take orders and collect bets as well as specific places to get drinks and place bets on both levels.  

	Crime of any kind is not allowed.  Any one caught stealing, pick pocketing, harassing the waitresses too much etc. face the only punishment the Pit has.  The guilty person is stripped of all possessions and tossed into the pit to fight in an impromptu special event.  See below for more details.  Most of the times the person tossed in here is left alive and abandoned some place in the Maze.  That person is never again allowed to come back into the Pit.  If they do sneak in and are caught, they are killed in the Pit.  

	Anyone is allowed to come and fight at the pit.  Mostly it’s thugs and fishermen trying to earn an extra copper or two, but mercenaries and guards are not uncommon.   All Pit fights are hand-to-hand: no armor, no shields.  The winner is the one standing at the end, but occasionally one of the fighters gives up.  There are no ties.  While the fights are violent, deaths are rare.  Fighters are paid a copper for fighting and a silver for winning.  They can also bet on themselves with the same limits as below in the betting section.  Anyone who throws a fight or looks like they are throwing the fight probably won’t live through the night.  Hardrid has a reputation for honest fights and he makes sure that reputation stays clean.  

	The first round of fights is called the Scrub Matches.  These are fights between the walk-ins, so anyone can fight here.  The number depends on how many appear that night.  Some nights, like the Wednesday or Thursday these are the only fights going on.  Fighter receive a copper piece for fighting, a silver piece for winning, and a look at by the Pit Physician, Damien to help out some of the damage.  One has to win 5 Scrub Matches in a row to get to the next round.  A person can only fight in one Scrub Match a night, unless Hardrid gives special permission.  

	Then there are the House Fighters.  These are more serious fights these fighters are all very skilled.  There are usually about fourteen different House Fighters in employment at a time.  Once someone wins five Scrub fights in a row, they now can fight a house fighter.  They get paid a silver piece for fighting and a gold piece for winning until they win three fights.  After that they get paid a gold for fighting, and a platinum for winning.  One has to win five of these fights to get to the next level, however they don’t have to be in a row.  They can loose up to two fights, after loosing the third they have to go back and fight Scrub fights to get back to this level.  These fights are usually fought on the weekends.

	A person who gets through the House Fighters then earns the right to challenge the ranked Fighters or to participate in a special event.  There are Five Ranked Fighters, all of them professional fighters.  All of these fights are special events and are scheduled weeks ahead of time.  One gets at least 50 gold pieces to fight and a few hundred gold if they win the fight.  If the challenger wins he becomes the number Five Fighter.  He can always challenge the number Four Fighter or participate in special events.  He can also be challenged by anyone who gets through the House Fighters.   

	Special Events are rare but occur when a well-known fighter comes into town on a ship or a caravan and wishes to fight.  Also, many of the rich people have their own sponsored fighter that they will have fight a challenger.  Payment for fighting and winning varies in all these instances.  It is usually at least 25 gold to fight and a percentage of the winnings.  

	The betting is done before the fight begins but after the fighters are announced.  Most bets are even odds, only in a severe miss match will different odds be taken.  People on the second floor can bet up to a silver piece on the Scrub Fights and up to five silver pieces on the House fights.  Special fights have even higher limits.  Fighters are allowed to bet up to twice that, but only on themselves.  People in the luxury boxes have been known to bet small fortunes on fights.  

	The rules are very simple: No crime, no cheating, and no magic.  People who commit crimes are forced to fight in the Pit.  People who throw fights or cheat are usually killed.  No one knows if any magic has been tried, but it is rumored Hardrid has a contract with the Mageguild to protect against magic.  

	The special events are rare and varied.  If someone is caught stealing and thrown into the Pit one of two types of special events happens.  Either a house fighter or ranked fight goes into the pit and people bet how long the criminal will last.  Or a bunch of Scrubs Fighters are let into the ring and people bet on who will be the one to KO the criminal.  Other special events involve fighters brought in from other areas of the city or from elsewhere in the world.


----------



## Endur

*Niko Monk*

I have to agree that I thought of Niko as being some sort of Monk type character.  Or perhaps Maat is similar to Ki.

Tom


----------



## Crothian

*Re: Niko Monk*



			
				Endur said:
			
		

> *I have to agree that I thought of Niko as being some sort of Monk type character.  Or perhaps Maat is similar to Ki.
> 
> Tom *




Excellent, so we have Niko as a Monk.  That will help when I write him up.  Thanks.


----------



## Dragongirl

Crothian said:
			
		

> *Feats
> 
> I know, there are too many feats as is, but these all can only be taken at first level.  They aren't meant to be powerful, they are meant to further develope characters. . . .*



Instead of making these feats, why don't you make them background.  Sorta like the region based skills in the FRCS?


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *
> Instead of making these feats, why don't you make them background.  Sorta like the region based skills in the FRCS? *




I'm not familiar with how they do that in FRCS, can you be more specific?


----------



## Crothian

Classes and races are updated.  Not many changes, more listeing all the stuff I need to do.  

Anything specific or general people want to see?  I'm planning some essay's covering different topics that should help explain how a typical TW campaign can work and the adventures.  Much and many things more to do


----------



## Dragongirl

Crothian said:
			
		

> *I'm not familiar with how they do that in FRCS, can you be more specific? *



Well in the FRCS they have it broken down into various regions.  You can choose which region you are from and you are given an automatic language, a list of bonus languages to choose from, a list of new feats you can gain at 1st level if you choose, and starting equipment.

When I was looking at your feats list, it looked like a lot of them could be backgrounds.  Just let someone choose one of those as their background and they can start out with those minor bonuses to skills.

Edit : Where I said feats at 1st level, let me clarify.  You can choose one of these as your 1st level feat, if you choose.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

i'll keep posting my questions and comments in General, unless you'd like that thread to fall away into oblivion.....


----------



## Dragongirl

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *i'll keep posting my questions and comments in General, unless you'd like that thread to fall away into oblivion..... *



Oops.  Am I not supposed to be posting in here? Sorry.


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *i'll keep posting my questions and comments in General, unless you'd like that thread to fall away into oblivion..... *




Post in both, it's what I do.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Oops.  Am I not supposed to be posting in here? Sorry. *




You're allowed.  The GF thread is to let people know this thread is here.  So, discussion can be in either.


----------



## Crothian

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Well in the FRCS they have it broken down into various regions.  You can choose which region you are from and you are given an automatic language, a list of bonus languages to choose from, a list of new feats you can gain at 1st level if you choose, and starting equipment.
> 
> When I was looking at your feats list, it looked like a lot of them could be backgrounds.  Just let someone choose one of those as their background and they can start out with those minor bonuses to skills.
> 
> Edit : Where I said feats at 1st level, let me clarify.  You can choose one of these as your 1st level feat, if you choose. *




That could be fun to do, to represent the differences in growing up in the different areas of Sanctuary as well as the different areas of the world.  Thanks!!


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Dragongirl said:
			
		

> *Oops.  Am I not supposed to be posting in here? Sorry. *



i told Crothian i'd post things concerning TW in General, so as many people as possible might see it and comment...


----------



## Crothian

Also, just finished reading a great e-book that will be very helpful for anyone running a d20 Thieve World game.  Everyone Else defines all the shop keepers, sailors, fishermen, guards, etc that you will ever need.  I think I may get more use out of it then the PHB.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

does it cover demon bartenders and revenant bar-owners?


----------



## Crothian

Mr Fidgit said:
			
		

> *does it cover demon bartenders and revenant bar-owners? *




Well, not exactly since everyting is written as human for default.  But it's really easy to switch races on stat blocks as long as you have a racial write up for said demon and revenant.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

Crothian said:
			
		

> *...said demon and revenant. *



--Snapper Jo and One-Thumb, of course! 

"More beer? Good beer for the gentlemen? Snapper Jo gets good beer for the gentlemen."


----------



## Crothian

Adventuring in Sanctuary

	So, how does one do this?  The group is assembled and frankly, they are just hoping to make it through the day with their purse, and the night with their life.  There are a few things that can be done depending on the level of action and interaction the group enjoys.  To allow for the chance of prosperity I like to set them up with a daily routine.  All characters should have a way to make some money be it begging, a day laborer, an actual job, performing, or theft.  So, unless the PCs have specific things to do or the DM has specific encounters planned for that day, I have all the PCs make some skill rolls and tell them what they earned.  Not everything they earn is money.  People can also earn food or equipment depending on what the character is doing.  

	Then the interesting stuff happens in the night.  Now, don’t do that every night.  You have to allow the characters to have some time when nothing happens otherwise it the unusually becomes mundane.  In the night the characters might go to the Pit to fight or gamble.  Head up to the Street of Red Lanterns to enjoy themselves in many ways, or even plan a heist or some other nightly job.  This allows the players to slowly build a little bit of a power base as they increase their wealth and can get some useful equipment.  What they get and what they do will really depend on the group.  

	First, there are the DM planned encounters that can turn into an adventure.  This can include the group being framed for a crime or just being in the wrong place at the wrong time and being chased through the streets at night.  With a good map and defined light sources this can be a very odd and even scary experience.  Or the group can be paid in an object that turns out to be magical.  It might have been stolen or lost from the Mageguild or some other powerful person.  Does the person know where it is or if it’s gone?  Will the group return it hoping for a reward (and possible loosing a pinky finger), will they try to sell it, or will they just go over to the ocean and toss it in.  The DM can also have planned encounters with specific NPCs from the books.  This is always difficult to do especially for the well known ones like Hanse and Tempest.  Characters will probably already have a good idea who these people are and be very cautious about any such meeting.  Another possibility is to allow the character to witness an event or series of events to see how the players react.  They can ignore the item, remember and sell the info or try to blackmail the people involved, or even try to help anyone involved.  If the players do help people and play the good guys allow them to succeed and reward them in some way for their actions.  It would be really easy to have every good action be punished in Sanctuary.  

	I also encourage the players to get some group goals.  These can be as simple as getting enough money to move into the Westside and eventually open a tavern to planning the eventual fall of Jubal.  They can also try to get a boat and become pirates, or become valued members of the Mageguild, or even get in good with the Rankan rulers.  Then once the goals and motives are established I let them decide the best way to get there.  As DM I’ll offer advice that if they request it or seem to be going off on some impossible idea, even for sanctuary.  From there’s allowing them to attempt do do what they want to do.  Earning money and making contacts and staying alive are probably the biggest parts of the game.  There are many interesting people of Sanctuary, so finding the right person to help can really get the players a few steps closer to their ultimate goal.  At the same time, meeting the wrong person can set them back drastically.  

	Now, there are ways to have more traditional adventures.  One can have the PCs go through the tunnels and the sewers meeting all sorts of no good people and critters.  They can go explore a haunted noble house or other place that has supernatural occurrences.  This can deal with an act of the gods or a one of the wizards.  Of course, the reason for it might never be known and only adds to the mystery.  Then there are the areas around Sanctuary like the Swamp and the Desert.  They can also travel by ship and encounter who knows what out there.  There’s scavenger’s Island to the south, which can offer all sorts of adventure.  However, it’s best to only let the PCs leave Sanctuary when they’ve earned it.  One of the themes in Thieves World is people want to leave the city, but are unable to.


----------



## Crothian

Some topics I plan on covering in no particuliar order:

More information on the Sewers and Tunnels

The different gods and their worship

Using the NPCs from the books

How to leave Sanctuary and places to go

Changing the timeline to help make it fit with what the DM and players want, as well as using the timeline for adventures.

Some alternate rules that should help set the tone of Sanctuary

The Pirates and Scavengers Island.


----------



## Crothian

The gods will also be a topic, but I'm not sure on them much.  Will need to research.


----------



## Khorod

Minor point...
I only know about Carronne from the main books, which say its got philosophy, tech, anti-mysticism, and drugs.

Its also got a somewhat foolish but charismatic bard who spends much time in Sanctuary.

So, aside from that one character, what's the basis for those stats?  I mean, by whats-his-name's own admission, he's not all that great a citizen of Caronne.

Keep up the great work.  I think its awesome.  Make's me wonder if I might be able to drop a Sanctuary clone in my world.

-Khorod


----------



## Crothian

A lot of this is guess work.  There are some novels about said Bard that may go into more detail, but I don't have them.  The same applies for many of the races and other things that I"m doing.  So, if you have a better suggestion, I'm more then willing to listen.


----------



## Crothian

This is basically want I want from the S'Danzo Divination ability, but I'm not sure if it truely does the job.

S’Danzo Abilities

	The S’Danzo women are known for their second site ability.  This ability is usually done with the aid of tarot cards or other such device.  In game terms this is a new exclusive skill that is only open to S’Danzo women and a few other people to a more limited degree (see below).

Divination (Exclusive Skill, Wisdom based): Divination is the ability to correctly predict the future.  This is done for one person at a time and the less that is known about him the better.  

This skill takes anywhere from five minutes to a half hour or even longer.  The S’Danzo is pretty much in control of the time, she can speed it up or lengthen the process, as she likes.  

DC 10: The S’Danzo get a general idea of what the next couple of days will hold.  “I foresee love in your future.”
DC 15: Same as above except with more a little more detail.  “I foresee love in your future from a strong woman.”
DC 20: The information is more precise and multiple things can be seen “Not only will a strong woman be in love with you, but her husband will soon find out.”
DC 25: Same as above except there is one specific detail that will be true “A Strong woman will be in love with you, but her husband will find out.  One the morning the crow cries early, he will find you.”
DC 30: Multiple unrelated things can be seen or one image will be seen in great clarity.  “I foresee love in your future from a strong woman and your camel dealership shall be very prosperous.” Or  “A strong woman with long red hair will buy a camel from you and by that night the two of you will be together.  However, beware for when the crow cries early her man will find you.”
DC 35:  As above except even more detail. “I foresee love in your future from a strong, red headed woman and your camel dealership shall be very prosperous especially with the caravans.” Or “A strong woman with long red hair will buy a camel from you and by that night the two of you will be together.  However, beware for when the crow cries early her man will find you.  Hw will catch you unaware and your only escape will be through the back alleys.”
DC 40: Any check of this or higher will be incredibly accurate, but cryptic.  “On the day the Hellhounds chase out the smugglers, your Camel business will prosper.  One of your buyers will be a red haired woman who you will be with for many days.  However when the crow cries early you will be found by her husband.  You will know him by the blue handled dagger he carries.  You will be able to escape through the back alleys, but if you do that you will lose her.”

Synergy Bonus: With 5 ranks in Divination you get +2 synergy bonus to Bluff or Sense Motive when telling or hearing a false fortune.  

Special: Take 10 or Take 20 may not be used with this skill.

Special: On a roll of a natural one, the Diviner sees a false vision.  The vision seems exactly like any other vision.  The vision however, will not come true and following the advice will lead the recipient into great misfortune as well as possible the diviner.  

Special: On a roll of a natural 20 the vision is unusually clear and accurate.  The Diviner with get specific and should be able to relay great amounts of truthful information

Special: If the Diviner is using an object like Tarot Cards that the Diviner has used exclusively for at least one year, the Diviner gets a +2 circumstance bonus to all Divinations with them.  

Special: Divination works best for true strangers.  If you are reading someone known to you it’s at a –2 circumstance bonus.  If it is for a friend it is a –5 circumstance penalty.  If it is for a blood relative it is a –10 circumstance bonus.  And if it is someone you love it is a –20 circumstance penalty.

Special: Retires are allowed on a failed roll, but not on a roll of a natural one.  The DCs are increased by five for each time it is retried.  If the fortune is successfully told, no amounts of retrying will change it.  The same cards will always come up.

Special: Lying about someone’s fortunes.  Occasionally the Diviner will see a fortune she does not want to tell the person.  She must make a bluff check against their sense motive.  The stronger the fortunes was the more difficult the bluff will be.  The bluff check receives a negative one circumstance penalty if the Divination check was a 20, with an additional –1 for each five the check was over 20.

Feats
True Sight (Special)
Prerequisites: S’danzo woman, must be taken at first level, can only be taken with DM’s permission.
Benefit: You gain +10 insight on all Divination checks.  This stacks with skill focus.

Third Eye (General)
Prerequisite: Non S’Danzo, Wis 17+, must be taken at first level
Benefit: You gain the Divination skill as a cross class skill.  This skill may never  be made a class skill.


----------



## Crothian

Hell Hound Prestige Class

"The towns people have already taken to calling you Hell Hounds. Be sure that title refers only to the your vigor with which you pursue your duties and not your viciousness."

The Hell Hounds are the elite Guards of the Prince in Sanctuary.  They were chosen not just because of their martial prowess, but also their ability to handle most situations and their ability to work alone if need be.

Hit Dice: d10
Requirements: 
Alignment: Any Lawful
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Feats: Expertise, Power Attack, Weapon Focus and Weapon specialization (any weapon), Alertness
Skills: Listen 5 Ranks, Knowledge Rankan History 5 ranks, Sense Motive 5 ranks, Spot 5 ranks.
Must be proficient in all simple and martial weapons, as well as all armors and shields.  
Special: Must be appointed to this position by the Prince.


Class Features:

Class Skills: Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Int), and Swim (Str)
Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier

BAB: As fighter 
Saves: As Fighter

Fearless: The Hell Hounds are known for their ability to go anywhere and face anything.  At first they are immune to all types of fear and intimidation.  They also receive +4 circumstance bonus on all intimidation checks.

Martial Expertise: The Hell Hounds are known to be the best fighters in Sanctuary.  At second level they receive and additional +1 to attack and +2 damage to one weapon they have weapon focus and specialization in.  Once this weapon is picked it cannot be changed.

Way of the City: The Hell Hound has now learned much about the city and how it really works.  He gets +2 to all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Innuendo checks.

Princely Favor: If the Hell Hound remains in good standing with the Prince, at fourth level he can request a favor.  This can only be used once, and must be in the Prince’s power.  

Rankan Resistance: By sixth level the Hell Hound has been through and survived much.  He gains +2 insight bonus to all saves.  

Live for the Prince: At eigth level the Hell Hound has shown his devotion to the prince and can call use it to help him defeat the prince’s enemies.  Once a day when he is acting on the behave on the Prince when the Hell Hound is taken to zero or below hit points he automatically heals 2d8+10 hit points.  

Seek out Justice: At Tenth level when pursuing a criminal the Hell Hound treats his armor as one category lighter in terms of movement.  He also acts as if he had the Endurance feat and that will stack if he already has the feat.  Also, his knowledge of the city is such that with a successful wisdom check DC 20 he can reason where the criminal has gone or is hiding if the Hell Hound losses sight of him.  That part of the ability only works up till five minutes after the Hell Hound has lost sight of the target.


----------



## Khorod

*Caronne*

Given a philosophical, technologically advanced culture, I would imagine a sort of rennaissance France.

Thus the Charisma-based bonuses do make sense, in terms of social interaction.  When compared to the rest of the world, I would expect that education and logic are more advanced there, so I would make it a +2 bonus to Intelligence.  Afterall, ole' what's-his-name would sometimes stop and use some pretty decent reasoning abilities.

Dexterity is just the quirk of a roguish bard.


----------



## Khorod

*Divination*

Really nice skill, mind if I lift it?

Can the diviner choose what level of accuracy she is shooting for, or does she just roll the dice and the message is revealed?

If its the second one it probably shouldn't be assigned DC's, just results for beating a low DC by X amount.

Also, as a fall-back, perhaps characters who have had a fortune read can make a Wisdom check against DC 10 + (die roll-divination DC) to recognize it is upon them.  That's a little weird, but it's mostly an idea for resolving npc's.

Is their some way the Diviner can influence the prediction?  
I think, um... Illyra?, when she warped the entire town with the help of the limner mentioned having tweaked the readings a time or two before, when it wasn't important.  Maybe a high DC ability, possibily opened up by a feat?

Hey, in case you don't have enough people mentioning it- doin' a really good job.


----------



## Crothian

*Re: Caronne*



			
				Khorod said:
			
		

> *Given a philosophical, technologically advanced culture, I would imagine a sort of rennaissance France.
> 
> Thus the Charisma-based bonuses do make sense, in terms of social interaction.  When compared to the rest of the world, I would expect that education and logic are more advanced there, so I would make it a +2 bonus to Intelligence.  Afterall, ole' what's-his-name would sometimes stop and use some pretty decent reasoning abilities.
> 
> Dexterity is just the quirk of a roguish bard. *




Ya, he does seem to be pretty smart.  Do you think that switching the bonus from Dex to Int would make them more likely to be spellcasters though?  Since spellcasters are so rare for everyone except the Nisibisi, I don't want to encourage people in that direction.  Carrone do get the bonus skill points which can be attributed to a higher Int.  If I go with the higher Int I'd need to remove the bonus skill points.


----------



## Crothian

*Re: Divination*



			
				Khorod said:
			
		

> *Really nice skill, mind if I lift it?
> 
> Can the diviner choose what level of accuracy she is shooting for, or does she just roll the dice and the message is revealed?
> 
> If its the second one it probably shouldn't be assigned DC's, just results for beating a low DC by X amount.
> 
> Also, as a fall-back, perhaps characters who have had a fortune read can make a Wisdom check against DC 10 + (die roll-divination DC) to recognize it is upon them.  That's a little weird, but it's mostly an idea for resolving npc's.
> 
> Is their some way the Diviner can influence the prediction?
> I think, um... Illyra?, when she warped the entire town with the help of the limner mentioned having tweaked the readings a time or two before, when it wasn't important.  Maybe a high DC ability, possibily opened up by a feat?
> 
> Hey, in case you don't have enough people mentioning it- doin' a really good job. *




Lift it in a couple of days to a week.  I'm not 100% happy with it yet.  

The Diviner has no idea what level of accuracy she will have.  She might get a very powerful reading one time and very weak, or even false reading the next.  

I'm not sure what the difference is between a DC of 15, and beating a DC ten by five.  Both need a 15 in to be effective.  

Most people seem to realize their fortune is upon them a little to late.  I may through something like that in for NPCs just to have a mechanic for it though.  Good idea.

Ya, I need to come up with rules for them trying to change the fortune,  Rules for lying about a forune or not revealing everything they see.  Rules for a natural one or a natural 20 on the skill check.  Rules to how knowing the person one is reading effects the check.  So, still some work here to do.  

I never have enough people telling me I'm doing a good job.


----------



## Crothian

Divination section updated above.


----------



## Khorod

*Re: Re: Caronne*

Well, just because a people are smart doesn't mean they have to have a particular kind of smarts.  The Caronne are prejudiced against magic in general, and so do not have much of a magical tradition.  But if you take one of those people into the wider world, rub off that prejudice, and expose him to the utility of magic, I would expect the guy to be a pretty competent spellcaster because of his thorough training in logic.  Its a roleplaying consideration.

Why remove the bonus skill points?  I personally feel that in a well-rounded game, all the scores are equal.  I would expect this even moreso in Sanctuary.  Is the point that the race would be skills top-heavy?  That's not a bad thing, afterall, as a people they have found non-martial ways to prevent war, divine strife, and the doings of mages from interfering.  That takes some serious manipulation of the surrounding world, or lots of nice mountain ranges.

Sorry, that's pretty wordy for a comment or two on a far-off land.


----------



## Crothian

My concern is being skill top heavy.  It would be a bonus of +2 skill points per level, and that's a lot.  

But skills are a good thing.  So, if I take Carrone and make them +2 Int, I will probably take Ilsigs and give them +2 Dex instead of Con.  I wasn't that happy giving them the Con bonus in the first part, but I really didn't want 2 races with pluses to Dex.

I still think the skills might be a little much, I can go with a bonus feat instead though.


----------



## Crothian

Hawk Mask Prestige Class

The Hawk Masks are the fighting force, the assassins, and the thieves of Jubal.  They are known on sight because they wear blue masks that resemble a hawk.  This is to hide their identity as well as strike fear in to people.  

HD: d8

Requirements:
BAB: +4
Skills: Intimidate 5 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, and Move Silently 5 ranks
Feats:   Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack 
Special: Must be accepted into the organization by Jubal

Class Features

Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), (Move Silently (Dex), Open Locks (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier.

BAB: As Fighter
Saves: As Rogue

Hawk Mask: At first level the character is given a Hawk Mask.  While wearing the mask, he gets +4 to all Intimidate and disguise checks.  Disguise is used to keep people from recognizing who the Hawk Mask is.  

Poison Use: At second level the Hawk Mask can safely use poison with no fear of poisoning himself.

Sneak Attack: At level three, six, and nine the Hawk mask gains +1d6 sneak attack.  This works exactly like the Rogues ability.

Death attack: At fourth level the Hawk Mask can perform a Death attack the same as an Assassin.

Fast Climb: At eighth level the Hawk Mask can now climb at his normal speed and can intermix them in a movement.  For instance a Hawk Mask with a base speed of 30 can climb up 20 feet and walk 10 feet as a move action.

Improved Spring Attack: At tenth level the Hawk Mask can now move up to 10 feet farther as part of his spring attack.  The movement can be climbing as well as normal movement.


----------



## Khorod

Both the prestige classes seem pretty good, but both also seem like they should be 5-level classes.  

They are mostly needed to make members of their respective groups have abilities in common, but that could be done by just matching the feat and skill choices of fighters and rogues.


----------



## Crothian

Khorod said:
			
		

> *Both the prestige classes seem pretty good, but both also seem like they should be 5-level classes.
> 
> They are mostly needed to make members of their respective groups have abilities in common, but that could be done by just matching the feat and skill choices of fighters and rogues. *




I'm just so into the 10 level classes, it didn't even occur to do it otherwise.  I'll redo them this weekend and see what they look like.   Good idea, thanks.


----------



## Crothian

Okay, didn't get to them today and tommorrrow is game day.  So, perhaps early next week.


----------



## Mr Fidgit

i don't think you will

i think you're quintaphobic

haven't you noticed how neither of the classes have any special abilities at level *5*?


5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5


----------



## Crothian

You figured out my weakness, my kryptonite if you will.  Or else I was celebrating the Ohio State Victory plus losses of Notre Dame, Virginia Tech, and Georgia!!  

_ /me does the happy dance  _


----------



## Khorod

That's ten 5's.  Just in case you didn't know.  25 fives and you coulda' turned him.  Even better, 3125 5's.

Just glancing over the Hawkmask class.  Wouldn't the bonus to Intimidate checks be due to the reputation of mask wearers, and the bonus to disguise a circumstance bonus because it's... a mask?

So then, wouldn't this ability be wearing the mask without risking imminent and painful death?  Or perhaps imminent and painful torture and later death?  Perhaps anyone can put on a mask for a +2 bonus, but only the Hawkmasks are studied enough in shoving their masked face at people, talking softly, and fingering their daggers to get the full +4.

You have a preference for which list I raise these grave issues?


----------



## Crothian

Khorod said:
			
		

> *Just glancing over the Hawkmask class.  Wouldn't the bonus to Intimidate checks be due to the reputation of mask wearers, and the bonus to disguise a circumstance bonus because it's... a mask?
> *




It's the mask and reputation that goes along with the mask that gives this bonuses.  I really didn't follow what you were trying to say in the other paragraph.  The revised classes should be done tonight.


----------



## Crothian

Hawk Mask Prestige Class (5 level prestige class)

The Hawk Masks are the fighting force, the assassins, and the thieves of Jubal.  They are known on sight because they wear blue masks that resemble a hawk.  This is to hide their identity as well as strike fear in to people.  

HD: d8

Requirements:
BAB: +4
Skills: Intimidate 5 ranks, Hide 5 ranks, Knowledge Local or Streetwise 3 ranks, and Move Silently 5 ranks
Feats:   Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack 
Special: Must be accepted into the organization by Jubal

Class Features

Class Skills: Balance (Dex), Bluff (Cha), Climb (Str), Disguise (Cha), Escape Artist (Dex), Gather Information (Cha), Hide (Dex), Innuendo (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Listen (Wis), (Move Silently (Dex), Open Locks (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Tumble (Dex), and Use Rope (Dex)

Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier.

BAB: As Fighter
Saves: As Rogue

Hawk Mask: At first level the character is given a Hawk Mask.  While wearing the mask, he gets +4 to all Intimidate and disguise checks.  Disguise is used to keep people from recognizing who the Hawk Mask is.  

Sanctuary Familiarity: At second level the Hawkmask has become very familiar with Sanctuary and how it works.  He gains +2 to both Knowledge Local, and Knowledge Streetwise but only as they apply to the city of Sanctuary.  

Poison Use: At second level the Hawk Mask can safely use poison with no fear of poisoning himself.

Death Attack: At third level the Hawk Mask can perform a Death attack the same as an Assassin.  The DC is equal to 10+ twice the Hawkmask class level + Int modifier.

Fast Stealth: At fifth level the Hawkmask can move at normal speed and still Fhide and Move silently with no penalty.


----------



## Crothian

Hell Hound Prestige Class (5 Level prestige Class)

"The towns people have already taken to calling you Hell Hounds. Be sure that title refers only to the your vigor with which you pursue your duties and not your viciousness."

The Hell Hounds are the elite Guards of the Prince in Sanctuary.  They were chosen not just because of their martial prowess, but also their ability to handle most situations and their ability to work alone if need be.

Hit Dice: d10
Requirements: 
Alignment: Any Lawful
Base Attack Bonus: +6
Feats: Expertise, Power Attack, Weapon Focus and Weapon specialization (any weapon), Alertness
Skills: Listen 5 Ranks, Knowledge Rankan History 5 ranks, Sense Motive 5 ranks, Spot 5 ranks.
Must be proficient in all simple and martial weapons, as well as all armors and shields.  
Special: Must be appointed to this position by the Prince.


Class Features:

Class Skills: Craft (Int), Diplomacy (Cha), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Intimidate (Cha), Listen (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Int), and Swim (Str)
Skill Points: 4 + Int modifier

BAB: As fighter 
Saves: As Fighter

Fearless: The Hell Hounds are known for their ability to go anywhere and face anything.  At first they are immune to all types of fear and intimidation.  They also receive +4 circumstance bonus on all intimidation checks.

Martial Expertise: The Hell Hounds are known to be the best fighters in Sanctuary.  At first level they receive and additional +1 to attack and +2 damage to one weapon they have weapon focus and specialization in.  Once this weapon is picked it cannot be changed.

Way of the City: The Hell Hound has now learned much about the city and how it really works.  At second level he gets +2 to all Bluff, Diplomacy, Gather Information, and Innuendo checks.

Princely Favor: If the Hell Hound remains in good standing with the Prince, at third level he can request a favor.  This can only be used once, and must be in the Prince’s power.  

Live for the Prince: At fourth level the Hell Hound has shown his devotion to the prince and can call use it to help him defeat the prince’s enemies.  Once a day when he is acting on the behave on the Prince when the Hell Hound is taken to zero or below hit points he automatically heals 2d8+10 hit points.  

Seek out Justice: At fifth level when pursuing a criminal the Hell Hound treats his armor as one category lighter in terms of movement.  He also acts as if he had the Endurance feat and that will stack if he already has the feat.  Also, his knowledge of the city is such that with a successful wisdom check DC 20 he can reason where the criminal has gone or is hiding if the Hell Hound losses sight of him.  That part of the ability only works up till five minutes after the Hell Hound has lost sight of the target.


----------



## Crothian

Stepson Prestige Class (5 level prestige class)

The Stepsons are an elite mercenary force that Tempus is the leader of.  There is a lot of camaraderie in the group.  There are two types the Sword Welders and their Shield mates.  

HD: d10
Requirements:
BAB: 5+
Feats: Power Attack, Cleave, Weapon Focus (Any), Weapon Specialization (Any)

Or

Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Weapon Focus (Any)

Class Skills: Climb (Str), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Intimidate (Cha), Jump (Str), Knowledge Tactics (Int), Ride (Dex), Swim (Str)
Skill Points: 2 + Int modifier 

Base Attack Bonus: As Fighter
Saves: As Fighter

Coordinated Fighting 1: At level one the pair of Stepsons (Swordwelders and the Shield Mate) can fight from the same square without hindering each other.  Also, Shield Mate may use a full round action to also provide his shield bonus to the Sword Mate.

Coordinated Fighting 2: At level two the Swordwelder now gets either a +2 attack bonus or +2 dodge bonus whenever the Shield Mate performs a full round action as in Coordinated Fighting 1.  

Coordinated Fighting 3: At third level as above except the bonus is +4.  They can also perform coordinated fighting when within 5 feet of each other.  

Coordinated Fighting 4:  At fourth level the duo can now work so well together they get an extra partial action once a round.  Only one of them can use this extra partial action.

Coordinated Fighting 5: At fifth level they can now fight as one.  When one uses the dodge feat, they both get the bonus.  When one uses the Expertise feat, they both get the bonus.  If they attack the same foe, they are considered flanking towards is.  They each roll initiative, but can use the others roll if they choose.


----------



## Crothian

Just like the city, I'm awake when others are not.


----------



## Crothian

*Races Updated*

Rankan 
Attributes: No modifications
Medium Sized
30ft base speed
1 extra feat at first level
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Automatic Language: Rankan (possible Royal Rankan as well)
Favored Class: Any

Ilsigi
Attributes: +2 Con, -2 Str
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
1 extra feat at first level
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Automatic Language: Ilsig
Favored Class: Any

S'Danzo
Then there are the S'Danzo. A race of gypsy like people never staying anywhere to long, always ready to leave at a moments notice. Playing one of these people will give the advantage of having others you can trust, as the S'Danzo basically take care of their own. However, the other S’Danzo might require certain things from you and decide whom you should and should not associate with.  They are also very close knit and might not except the S'Danzo's friends.
Attributes: +2 Cha, -2 Str
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
Females have Divination abilities (work in progress)
Males have other abilities (work in progress)
Perform is always a class skill
Automatic Language: S'Danzo, one of choice
Favored Class: Bard

Caronne
There are also the Caronne. They are from west side of the content, north of Ilsig. They are known for their art and philosophy. The finest wines and silk are imported from these people. So, there are few who would actually stay in Sanctuary, but it is a fun race to explore.
Attributes: +2 Dex, -2 Wis
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
+2 to any two Charisma based Skills (players choice)
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Languages: Caronne
Favored Class: Any

Raggah
The Raggah are desert horsemen; tqall and dark, with green or blue eyes, they are always hooded or cloaked. They tribes that are large extended families. They speak their own language, but only use hand signs with others. Very, very few people not of the Raggah know their language. Occasionally, a single or pair will come into the bazaar to buy something.  Mostly, though, when the Raggah need things they raid caravans and the city itself.
Attributes: +2 Dex, +2 Con, -2 Int, -2 Wis, -2 Cha
Medium Sized
30ft Base Speed
Proficient in Scimitar and Short Composite Bow
+2 to Ride and Handle Animal skills (Both are always a class skill)
Mounted Combat feat
+4 to resist thirst and heat in a desert
Languages: Raggah (They rarely speak any other language)
Favored Class: Fighter

Northern Barbarian (Name unknown at this time) 
The mountain Barbarians are large people, built to fight and live in hostile mountains. They are also not conquered by the Rankan. They come and go from Sanctuary as they please. They also where armor and carry large weapons. One of the few people to be able to do so and not get harassed by the guards, at least not the ones who know what's good for them.
Attributes: +2 Str, +2 Con, -2 Int, -4 Cha 
30ft Base Speed
+2 intuit Direction, +2 intimidate, +2 wilderness lore
Endurance, Toughness feat
Languages: Barbarian
Favored Class: Barbarian

Nisibisi
The Nisibisi are a mysterious race of humans that live mostly behind the Wizard Wall. The Wizard wall is at the top of the continent and one of the few places the Rankan has yet to conquer. They are a magic using people, and summon demons to through at their enemies. 
Attributes: +2 Int, -2 Con
30ft Base Speed
+2 Spellcraft and Concentration checks
+4 skill points at first level, +1 skill point every level after 1st
Language: Nissi
Favored Class: Wizard

Other Races:
Achadian
Aubrietia: From Aurvesh, a foreign country known for its wine production
Azehur: From a city north of Sanctuary of the same name, home to the Order of the Blue Star
Banmalts: A sea Faring People who live by trading in foreign ports
Beysib 
Cadite: A Native of Cadis, a foreign country
Cirdonian: Native of Cirdon, a northern country conquered by Ranke
Cleean:A native of Cleea, a country in the North East coast of the continent, noted for their naval activities.
Enlibrite: Descendant of a citizen from Enlibar, an ancient yet fallen empire
Firaquan
Ilbarsi: A people noted for their metalwork
Lizerene
Mrsevanders: From Mrsevnda, a foreign place noted for it’s black and red gamecocks.
Mygdonian: Live north of the Wizard Wall
Napatan 
Sherranpip: They are from an island nation far east and south of Sanctuary.
Sumarian
Sumese: from Suma, a foreign place
Syrese: From Syr, a place noted for it horses
Troll
Twanders: From Twand, a city across the desert from sanctuary noted for its wealth and luxury.  
Tysian: From Tyris-beyond-the-sea; a foregn city noted for its spices
Winged Folk of the North
Yenized: A foreign area, the language spoken there has two forms Modern Yenized and Old High Yenized.
.


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## Mr Fidgit

that's kind of funny...i just started taking notes on the different races and places too.

are these guys: Northern Barbarian (Name unknown at this time)...

the same as these guys: (?) Mygdonians live on the other side of the Wizardwall (Niko fought with guerrillas called the Successors against the Mygdonians)


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## Crothian

Cool, I'm all over the place with this doing a little of this and that.  Now I'm organizing the S'danzon Cards, the liquors (thanks for those by the way   ), and some different types of equpment and coins.


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## Mr Fidgit

do you want me to post all those little notes i've jotted, or keep bumping the thread in General?


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## Crothian

What notes do you have?  I always bump the General Forum thread whenever I post something here.  So, really either place is fine.


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## Mr Fidgit

geography of TW  (all direction are from Sanctuary)

north, a horse ranch in 'Hidden Valley'  (b9p58)

the Sun's Anvil (desert); Raggah (desert tribe)

Scavenger's Island - b11p10 - from Hakiem: “Scavenger's Island - pirate haven. A place which made Sanctuary at its worst seem serene and orderly by comparison. Scourge of the seas, Harrier of the coast, and, also, a place which had generally regarded Sanctuary as a poor relation and left it alone.”

Bandaran Isles - birthplace of Niko, where the Stormchildren were sent, where Hanse was headed when captured (was to be sold into slavery)

Swamp of Night Secrets  - (Ratfall - used as Zip's hide-out)

Wizardwall - Tyse's slopes (mountain range)

Aurvesh  (route of caravan guard Fulcris, b9  'Spellmaster')

(beyond Aurvesh) Twand  (route of caravan guard Fulcris, b9  'Spellmaster')

-northwest- Firaqa  city ruled by wizards (Hanse killed one, a  particularly nasty one (b10, p242) - b10, p253 Hanse: “A city far to the north. Strange people with a strange religon. Ruled by a sort of council of sorcerers. The chief was also the most evil and I suppose the most powerful. He's dead now.”

Ferrillan - “far north of Firaqa”* (*told by Strick (b9  'Spellmaster') who is liar, so, who knows?)

Maidenhead Wood -- a day or two this side of Firaqa*

Suma - north (caravan route)

Crit has 'Syrese' features

Samlor hil Samt is 'Cirdonian'

Mygdonians live on the other side of the Wizardwall (Niko fought with guerrillas called the Successors against the Mygdonians)

Khamwas the wizard (book 10) is from Napata, 'the Land of the River' and of the desert (and the desert holds ruins to ancient gods, like Somptu and Harsaphes)

Jarveena is originally from an abandoned (or destroyed) village called Holt, now reffered to as Forgotten

Enlibar - oranges are from Enlibar, either so rare or so good, they're 'legendary' (b11p94) (probably rare)

Ilbarsi - Ilbarsa?

Bhokar - shipped lumber to Sanctuary for construction of a barracks on the Vigeles' Land's End estate, also known for Bhokaran ferryboats (burned the dead)


******************

The Cult of Dyreela

'a goddess whose worship in Sanctuary predates the Ilsigi presence and which has been outlawed many times since then'

'she rules the wastelands and the lost spirits who dwell there....she is the fever and the cure'

a ruined temple to Dyareela still exists in Sanctuary

people make sacrifices to Her when plagues ravage Sancuary

'female wrapped in scorched robes from which pale smoke rose in ghostly trails, with singed hair that lifted as the wind caught it and sent up little spurts of flame -- her face glowed like a lantern, as if the fire that burned Her lay within, and the features of that face contorted in a demon's mask'

her appearance changes with the condition of city, “I neither come nor go - I am ! Only my Faces change...”

********************************

Sabellia - mother goddess for the Rankan Empire - appears nightly to ride her chariot across the sky  (the moon)

********************************

(Firaqa - mints its own coins - silvers minted with 'the sign of the Flame' - b9p202  --Strick looked for a Temple of the Flame in Sanctuary - b9p210)

*******************************

(b10pg98) Recently, a few blades of Enlibar steel had appeared. These were forged from iron alloyed with a blue-green ore of copper which had been cursed by earth spirits, kobolds. The ore could be smelted only by magical means, and it was said to give exceptional toughness to sword blades.

*********************************

no Beysa can bear a male child - b11, p3 - “Indeed, no Beysa had ever dared to love - not when her blood was venom and all her male offspring were condemned to death in her womb.”

*********************************

Court Rankene and 'common' Rankene are two different languages

*********************************

theory of magic in TW by Cappan Varra, (paraphrased) - “Reality isn't solid. Its like clay, but most people don't have the strength to mold it, or know how. The gods can. Mages can shape it it with their spells, and artists, sometimes can too.” (b12p117) (reference - Lalo's creation of the Vulgar Unicorn, and Carran Varra ”sang a door open to the other world...” summoning demons who killed an entire village (b12p118)

********************************

Moonday - monday?
Eshday - wednesday?
Sixthday - saturday (also known as Spirit's Day, Sabellia's Day)

********************************

some lesser known people and places in Sanctuary

The Sepentine - partially cobbled street

   Sly's Place - dive bar, at the end of the street

Old Birt's Dodge - street on the right side of Sly's

Street of Tanners - street on the left side of Sly's

   Zandulas's Tannery - 3 blocks from Sly's (”Zandulas is a friendly enough fellow, if he would ever bathe.” b11p140)

   Chollandar's Glue Shop - next to Zandulas's - proprietor, 'Cholly' “makes the finest glues and pastes in town. He uses only the best ingredients: tree sap, inedible fish, hooves and unusable hides, flour, acids and other compounds from chemists, and people.” (b11p141) assistants - Aram (16, sleeps under the counter), Sambar (sleeps in a horse stall with..), Enkidu and Eshi (two gray work horses - who haul the work wagon), wife, Ineedra, tortoise-shell calico cat, Crumpet

   Reh Shing the Soapmaker - across the alley from Cholly's - buys barrels of tallow from Cholly

   Shamara's Wig Shop - buy's scalps from Cholly 

   Marc's Weapons Shop - bought weapons from Cholly - “Most of Marc's goods were shoddy...the really good stuff he sold separately. Some special blades he kept for himself.” (b11p150)

   Man in Motley - restaurant on Cholly's route - “...Where a joint was always skewered to the carving board.” (b11p151)

  Herwick the jeweler - on Cholly's route (Lalo's son Ganner apprenticed here before the False Plague riots - b11p151) 

   Synab's artifact and curio shop - down the street from Herwick's - Synab  “white-haired man in green linen” (b11p153) has some knowledge of lost languages and myths

   Renn - banker, was (to Cholly) “one of the few men in Sanctuary he completely trusted” (b11p153) - armed guards and other defenses - “No one had ever robbed Renn's bank and lived to reach the door.” (b11p153) - on the Street of Money

   the Winebarrel - tavern catering to fishermen


The Street of Red Lanterns

   the Lily Garden - Amoli, proprietor (left town in book 12), new owner, Taya (former Prince's consort)  - “one of the most respectable brothels in town.” (b12p33) - not far from the Maze, has an underground tunnel to the Lastel house

   the Slippery Lily

   the House of Whips


The Shambles

   the Tinker's Knob - salvaged from burnt wreckage (tavern - burnt in False Plague riots (i believe...))



   the Warm Kettle - inn, Shamut and Dansea proprietors (existed before the Rankan invasion), 'decent' place -- “they minded their own business and ran an honest establishment.” (b12p82)

   Hari's - 'upscale' restaurant

   Golden Oasis - 'upscale' restaurant

Scholars Guild - hires out tutors for the wealthy

The Promise of Heaven - a park
   an altar and statue to Sabellia, with two waist-high pedestals and a white pebbled pathway

  Asphodel works in the park (nights)



Rahi - “tinker who did a small side business in small arms, knives, and the like”, He was an “astonishing phenomenon, an honest tradesman”

Gonfred - “a goldsmith with a reputation for honesty”


Grian - runs a charnal house


******************************


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## Crothian

Nice Job!!  I'll have to try to map out some of these places in the very least to give a visual reference to things.  

Here's some more stuff, I'll be organizing it soon.

Stuff and equipment


Drinks
Baladach wine – Good and Expensive Red Wine
Red Gold - served at the Land's End races, and is Sly's 'best'
Red courage - a cheap red wine given to gladiators before they fight
Wizardwall red - 
Sweetboy Special - a 'good' beer
True Brew - beer
Vuksebah - expensive liquor, amber colored, malt whiskey from the far north
Blue John: Non Alcoholic beverage of clabbered milk
Zhanduvend: A good and expensive red wine.

There's also Cat's Piss, the stuff served at the Vulger Unicorn.

There is also Qualis, the best drink out there. It can be made into a love potion or a very fine liqueur

Fooder: A measure of Wine; a cask holding that amount.

S’Danzo Cards

. Forest Primeval - sunlight shining through trees in full bloom (green leaves)

Zenith - the noonday sun - (Lalo added a cityscape to the bottom of this card, and it came to represent Sanctuary)

The Lance of Ships - the Narwhale - a card of good fortune and changeability, upside down represents misfortune, or good fortunes disappearing

Two of Ores - Steel - image of swords pointing in one direction (towards or away from the person who's getting their fortune told - swords toward you indicate death, swords away mean doom for your enemy)

Quicksilver - the Card of Shalpa - 

The Face of Chaos - image of a man and woman distorted 'as if in some fever dream'

The Zigurrat - image of a disintegrating tower

The Lance of Winds - images of storms and tornadoes

Justice - image of three robed and hooded figures pointing at a man kneeling

Eight of Flames - the Lady of Fire - 'who's touch can warm or destroy' (the goddess Dyareela)

Seven of Ores - Red Clay - represents craftsmen potters

The Archway - image of a massive gate with an unknown mystic symbol carved in its keystone. beyond the gate is plush greenery

Three of Flames - images of three nondescript people holding torches in a long tunnel, with one end of the tunnel dark, and the other bright

Lance of Air, Seven of Ships, Five of Ores, the Whirlwind, the Warfleet, the Iron Key, the Orb, Quicksilver, Acorn, Ocean, Emptiness (no picture descriptions)

(b10 pg220-1) the cards are called Amashkiki, 'The Guideposts of Vision'

The Termagant, old S'Danzo seeress, ”I take it you know that among the amashkiki there are five families [suits]: fire, ore, wood, water and air, as correspond to the five elements from which the universe was made. Each family is led by its Prime and defended by its Lance. There are, of course, cards which do not fall into the families...”

“The Lances defend. They are rigid, sharp-edged, defined. The Primes, though, are the start of things. And also the ends. Magicians like the Prime cards because they mean everything, you know. The appearance of a Prime simplifies the reading, she may have told you this; two Primes and it practically shouts. Five Primes is absurd...”

by the Termagant's examples, the Seven of Ships and the Lance of Ships (in the earlier post) are probably the Water cards

Lady of the Forest - woman 'spirit with cobweb wings'

Lady of the Stones - woman sitting at a stone-weighted loom

Fifth of Air - 'scattering of petals floating away from a bouquet' (b12p221)

Drugs (Good and Bad)

Agris: a plant whose flowers cure stomach ache
Cyclantha powder: White Sleeping powder taken with wine
Dalin: Foolproof herbal abortifacient
Dark Melles: Raw root that when eaten cures chest pains
Gernay: cures constipation, consists of two roots, flower, and a leaf.
Krrf: Recreational stimulant drug, usually mixed with snuff.
Kleetel: Cheap recreational drug that can cause vomiting
Stypis: Plant whose leaves taken with an infusion cures headaches


Weapon

Blue Wing: Deadly Foe seeking Boomerang

Armor

Byrnie: Coat of Mail
Cuirasse: Breastplate

Money

Copper: a copper coin of small denomination
Grimale: Rankan gold coin
Padpool: Rankan Copper
Royals: Ranken Gold coin
Sheboozh: A Rankan gold coin


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## Crothian

Just want to see if anyone but myself and Mr Fidgit want to post and comment on the grim going ons of the TW thread.


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## Mr Fidgit

*Re: Races Updated*

yeah, right   



			
				Crothian said:
			
		

> *Northern Barbarian (Name unknown at this time)
> The mountain Barbarians are large people, built to fight and live in hostile mountains. They are also not conquered by the Rankan. They come and go from Sanctuary as they please. They also where armor and carry large weapons. One of the few people to be able to do so and not get harassed by the guards, at least not the ones who know what's good for them.*



are you talking about these guys(?):

Hakiem's first story - 'the history of Sanctuary' - The story begins here, in what was once the kingdom of Ilsig, east of the Queen's Mountains; which the Rankans call the World's End Mountains; and the Mountain Men call Gunderpah -- the Ilsigs formed an alliance with the Mountain Tribes to guard the only known pass through the mountains...Sanctuary's fishing fleet was out when the Rankans arrived, and they fled to Scavenger's Island to form the Cape Pirates -- twenty years ago, the Rankans defeated the Mountain Men, leaving the Great Pass open

from Jamie the Red (b1p103) - “...they're mountaineers where I hail from, poor folk but free folk. Some might call us barbarians, but that might be unwise in our hearing. For we've tales, songs, laws, ways, gods as old as any in the world, and as good. We lack much of your Southorn lore, but how much of ours do you ken?”


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## Crothian

Yes that is them.  I had forgotten that the Rankens had gotten through the pass before the beginning of the books.  It has been a while since I read them and really paid attention.  And I reallyu want to find the novel on Jamie the Red, he's a cool character.


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## Khorod

> Just glancing over the Hawkmask class. Wouldn't the bonus to Intimidate checks be due to the reputation of mask wearers, and the bonus to disguise a circumstance bonus because it's... a mask?




People see someone wearing a blue mask and are intimidated.  Whether its a Hawkmask or a downwinder in a big cloak is beside the point. --Brief Clarification


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## Crothian

Khorod said:
			
		

> *
> 
> People see someone wearing a blue mask and are intimidated.  Whether its a Hawkmask or a downwinder in a big cloak is beside the point. --Brief Clarification *




I think it's a little more then the mask, although the mask is key.  It's also how the person carries himself while wearing the mask.  Hawkmasks will walk ans act a certain way because they know they rule the under side of the city, at least till Tempus shows up and starts hunting them.


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## Mr Fidgit

a few more notes from book 1...

Enas Yorl's 'address' - “on - or, more exactly, below - Prytanis Street, where the city petered out to the southeast of Temple Avenue” (b1p36)


more cards (b1)...

Chaos (or The Face of Chaos) - a portrait of man and woman seen in a broken mirror

Five of Ships - stylized scene of five small fishing boats, each with its net cast into the water

Lance of Flames - 



another day of the week - Anenday  



'Shavakh' - S'Danzo name for a non-S'Danzo

make-up - kohl (eyeshadow)



Kalos - good wine from a grove in the mountains, east of Syr (”so purple it is almost black”)


one of the first 'monsters' in TW; Sikkintair; Flying Knife, attributes of the the god Ils, 'outsiders' in that they exist in another dimension, but can be called to this one


more places....

Golden Lizard - tavern (?)

House of Mermaids - Gelicia, proprietor


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## Crothian

Thanks.  Even though I'm starting up a d20 Modern game, I still plan on continueing with the conversions.  Although they might slow down a bit more.  Just FYI


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## Crothian

Just checking tom see if anyone else has any other ideas or comments at this time?


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## Khorod

I'm using your divination skill as inspiration for a close cousin thing of my own.  It might have some elements you'd like, but its gunna take me a while to finish it off.  busy, busy...

I am also taking the card listing and putting it into a table format.  I'll stick it online somewhere and share it.  I just have trouble figuring out that jumble in the posts.


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## Crothian

Khorod said:
			
		

> *I'm using your divination skill as inspiration for a close cousin thing of my own.  It might have some elements you'd like, but its gunna take me a while to finish it off.  busy, busy...
> 
> I am also taking the card listing and putting it into a table format.  I'll stick it online somewhere and share it.  I just have trouble figuring out that jumble in the posts. *




Ya, I need to organize it and figure out the different types of cards from the five suits and the other types.  It's tough since the info is in maybe a few of 60+ short stories in 12 books.  But I'm interested in anything you haave when you have it.


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## Khorod

eh.  Decided to do some stuff.

check out 
http://www.ic.ucsb.edu/~khorod/dd/sdanzo_cards.html 

All I did was put the stuff in the thread already in some semblance of order.  No guesswork or further research on my part.


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## Crothian

Looks really good.


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## Mr Fidgit

a few points from book 3...

Kaimas - city of winged people somewhere in the north, beyond the Forgotten Pass (b3p73)(”most flying people were black or deep iridescent green or pure dark dark blue” b3p21)

trolls live in the same region - 'the gentlest of creatures', 'the most cultured of forest people', the troll Aristarchus was covered with golden gray-flecked hair and could with speak with animals

Ischade's address - “Seventh in the alley called Snake. On the right as you go from the Serpentine at Acban's Passage.” (from Enas Yorl, b3p100-1)


fish - Nya; “small schooling fish whose sweet flesh brought top price each afternoon after the catch was brought in.” (b3p136)

Docks - the Wine Barrel; “a rickety wharf-side tavern favored by the fishermen and therefore shunned by everyone else.” (b3ps142-3)

Lance of Ships - “a whale with a metal-sheathed horn proceeding from its head” (b3p146)

Aurvesh - known for its silks


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## las

Crothian ill be redoing wuha ill most likly move it into FR in KT so you know.


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## Iron_Chef

Crothian said:
			
		

> I can't even find... the name of the Mountain Barbarians.




I thought they were Gundermen from the Gunderpah (sp?) Mountains? Wrong barbarians? Wrong setting I'm thinking of?


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## Crothian

They might be.  It's been a while since I read through a book that had them named.


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## Iron_Chef

Crothian said:
			
		

> They might be.  It's been a while since I read through a book that had them named.




I just reread Book 1 (third time in 15 years) a few months back, so I'm pretty sure it was mentioned in there, possibly even in Hakiem's introduction. Acrtually, having just read through all your TW threads, someone else mentioned this, too.


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## Crothian

Okay, I never hada chance to pull ouyt the novels and do fact checking.  It was a start to a campaign I never ran.  So, the wind left the sails fast.


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## Iron_Chef

Here are handy links to Crothian's threads detailing his d20 conversions of Thieves' World:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27794

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=27940

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=28929

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29018

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=29635


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