# Disney to revise Star Wars canon



## Kramodlog (Jan 9, 2014)

Nerds everywhere declare a Jihad. 



> When asked what the change meant, he [URL="http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-spinoffs-will-matter-668958"]wrote[/URL] that "a primary goal" was to ensure that there was no hierarchy between the movies and spinoff material, but instead one cohesive canon across the entire franchise, [URL="http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/heat-vision/star-wars-spinoffs-will-matter-668958"]adding[/URL] that "more so than ever, the canon field will serve us internally simply for classification rather than setting hierarchy."


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 9, 2014)

Somewhere there was an 800 page summary of EU cannon. That was over 10 years ago.
Yes, an 800 page _summary_.


----------



## LordNightwinter (Jan 9, 2014)

My god, prepare for the wrath of Mickey Skywalker!


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 9, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Nerds everywhere declare a Jihad.



Maybe they will actually write something good.


----------



## Kramodlog (Jan 9, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Maybe they will actually write something good.



Maybe I'm a Canadian.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 9, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Maybe I'm a Canadian.



As much as you want to deny it, you are.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 9, 2014)

lol...the article got info in correct



> the concept of Star Wars canon has been relatively simple: Everything that happens in the movies counts, and everything that happened in any of the spinoff material -- be it games, comic books, novels or television shows -- doesn't.




As pointed out in the comments..Star Trek uses that not Star Wars....and that's just the tip of the ice berg

EDIT: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Canon


----------



## Crothian (Jan 9, 2014)

Star Wars Canon is a mess. Events that happen in the movies have been argued about because they have been presently differently in some books. Revising the Canon is a good thing.


----------



## Dioltach (Jan 9, 2014)

For me, canon is what happened in the movies and in my Star Wars D20 campaign.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Jan 9, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Maybe they will actually write something good.




Yeah ... I'm gonna have to go ahead and ... ask you to turn in your optimism.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 9, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Yeah ... I'm gonna have to go ahead and ... ask you to turn in your optimism.



Your sarcasm detector is broken.


----------



## MarkB (Jan 9, 2014)

What canon? Even the movies get revised a little bit whenever they're updated.

Personally I was always rather put off by the sheer volume and twisted continuity of the Star Wars EU, so I'd welcome a cleaner, more consistent approach. I might actually start reading Star Wars novels again.


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 9, 2014)

I'd welcome the destruction of anything written by Kevin J Anderson, just as a starting point for cleaning up EU. Marvel Comics, at their most bizarre, did not create anything as breakingly bad as KJA does whenever he sits in front of a keyboard.

What are the odds that Disney will come up with a decent script? about 900,000 times better than the notion that George or Katie Lucas could. They've rather singularly failed in that regard, and turned almost everything they touched into sewage. Disney has not had many prize scripts in the last few decades (pixar and the first Pirates movies not withstanding), but they aren't as likely to create utter crap.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 9, 2014)

LordNightwinter said:


> My god, prepare for the wrath of Mickey Skywalker!




_The Sith Lord's Apprentice_?


----------



## Morrus (Jan 9, 2014)

Not having ever read any of the books (but having read many TSR D&D spinoffs in my teens, so I know to steer away from such stuff) I really don't care.  I, and 99% of the world, won't have the slightest clue whether some elements of some books or comics are included.

Just make good movies, that's all I ask. I can't judge canon, but I feel myself enough of a movie buff to judge good movies.  Make some good _Star Wars_ movies, please.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 10, 2014)

Huzzah to that!


----------



## Jester David (Jan 10, 2014)

*Disney: *We're simplifying the canon. So the twenty years of books and novels no longer happened. _Clone Wars_ the series is a maybe, as is _Ewoks_ and _Droids_. 

*Fans: *Boo! You mean we wasted money on those stories?

*Disney:* I'm afraid so. But there'll be more movies soon. Oh, and new TV shows and comics that are canon.

*Fans: *What guarantee do we have that these new stories won't suddenly become non-canon the next time a director doesn't want to spend ten minutes on Wookiepedia? 

*Disney: *Ummm.... New movies! Did we mention a Han Solo prequel?


----------



## Jhaelen (Jan 10, 2014)

Morrus said:


> Just make good movies, that's all I ask.



Seconded!


----------



## JediSoth (Jan 10, 2014)

Now, I like R.A. Salvatore personally, but I hope this means they'll ignore Chewbacca's death and everything associated with the New Jedi Order.

I know I do when I set games in the post-Rebellion era.


----------



## billd91 (Jan 10, 2014)

Jester Canuck said:


> *Disney: *We're simplifying the canon. So the twenty years of books and novels no longer happened. _Clone Wars_ the series is a maybe, as is _Ewoks_ and _Droids_.
> 
> *Fans: *Boo! You mean we wasted money on those stories?




Hey fans, did you *enjoy* those stories when you read them? If so, money *not* wasted.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 10, 2014)

The best canon revision I can think of would be to ditch all of the revisions Lucas added later.

Han shot first, dang it.


----------



## Dungeoneer (Jan 10, 2014)

Yeah, how about they declare the prequels not canon and we'll call it even?


----------



## WayneLigon (Jan 10, 2014)

Good. The EU only came about when it became apparent that Lucas wasn't rushing to produce more films. If they wipe out everything except the original cut of the first three movies, it'll still be all good. Cleaning house is really the only way to move forward at this time.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Jan 10, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Your sarcasm detector is broken.




Nerp.  It appears your Office Space reference detector is what's malfunctioned here.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 10, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Nerp.  It appears your Office Space reference detector is what's malfunctioned here.



Keep on and I'll have Disney re-write your canon so you never happened!!!


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 11, 2014)

I just hope they ditch JJAbrams from the director slot. It may be his dream, but I haven't seen any sign that he's up to the job.
Yes, let's by all means have some good movies for a change.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 11, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> I just hope they ditch JJAbrams from the director slot. It may be his dream, but I haven't seen any sign that he's up to the job.
> Yes, let's by all means have some good movies for a change.




I'll take a lens flare over a retconned Greedo blaster bolt any day.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Jan 11, 2014)

My canon would be

Movies
Courtship of Lia
Thrawn trilogy
Jedi Academy trilogy
Black fleet trilogy
Corellion Trilogy
Darksaber
Young Jedi Knights

that is pretty much my favorites and ones that make the most sense... I would add in ANikin's birth in the Dark EMpire comic, but a lot of the clone emperor annoyed me... and I'm mad they turned one of the kids evil so what Luke saw could never come to pass...


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 11, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> My canon would be
> 
> Movies
> Courtship of Liea
> ...




I would add the X-wing books.



Olgar Shiverstone said:


> I'll take a lens flare over a retconned Greedo blaster bolt any day.



I'd take someone who can direct and knows when to not go over the top. Lens flares can be annoying, but if the overall direction is lacking, all they can do is make a bad movie worse.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Jan 11, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> I would add the X-wing books.



I could see that, but not I Jedi... Mr horn should stay in his 


> I'd take someone who can direct and knows when to not go over the top. Lens flares can be annoying, but if the overall direction is lacking, all they can do is make a bad movie worse.




Jj is hit or miss with me, Im just hopeing for a hit

I just wish we had a Time Machine (or mind whipe machine) so writers and director could think they had 1980's special effects and budgets so they would focus mor eon stories and less on CGI


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 11, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I could see that, but not I Jedi... Mr horn should stay in his




The main problem with I, Jedi is that Stackpole was working with Kevin J Anderson.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Jan 11, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> The main problem with I, Jedi is that Stackpole was working with Kevin J Anderson.




?? I don't get it Keven J Anderson also wrote Jedi Academy and Young Jedi KNights...those were good


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 11, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> ?? I don't get it Keven J Anderson also wrote Jedi Academy and Young Jedi KNights...those were good




well, that's where we disagree. Didn't read Young Jedi Knights, but Jedi Academy had me cringing.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Jan 11, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> well, that's where we disagree. Didn't read Young Jedi Knights, but Jedi Academy had me cringing.




not trying to argue, but could you tell me why? I have heard a lot of "This sucks" and not a lot of whys...



as for young jedi knights I was in highschool when they came out and were highschool age kids of Han and Leia training to be Jedi.  Twins Jacen (a bit like his dad he had that charming smile and devil may care attitude but mostly came off as a joker) and Jana (very tech savy nerd type) and there friends and enemies. The training came off more realistic in my mind then luke's (although all based on the movies, like red laser droids and blask helmets that filtered out red, so you could still see everything but what was shooting at you, and weighted block for TK lifting and stacking) and it helped that I was in the age group...


----------



## delericho (Jan 11, 2014)

Revising canon by retconning things out of existence, and especially by selectively retconning things out of existence, does _not_ make it simpler. All it does is introduce a whole new set of complexities - now it's not enough to know whether something happened or not, you have to determine whether it has _still_ happened, or some director/writer/focus group has decided to remove it again... or, indeed, put it back in.

Even more annoying is that a few years ago Lucasfilm actually went to a fairly significant effort to sort a lot of stuff out - the novels published since NJO have all been made to fit together, "Clone Wars" fits in with the movies, etc etc.


----------



## delericho (Jan 11, 2014)

billd91 said:


> Hey fans, did you *enjoy* those stories when you read them?




See, now you're just being silly. This is Star Wars, and Star Wars fans we're talking about. It's been well established that since 1983 the only enjoyment Star Wars fans get from anything labelled Star Wars lies in finding new and innovative ways to bitch about it.


----------



## Bagpuss (Jan 12, 2014)

Dioltach said:


> For me, canon is what happened in the movies and in my Star Wars D20 campaign.




That's than what I consider canon, when gaming. I don't even consider the movies canon on those occasions if the events in the films are yet to happen.


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 12, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> not trying to argue, but could you tell me why? I have heard a lot of "This sucks" and not a lot of whys...
> 
> 
> 
> as for young jedi knights I was in highschool when they came out and were highschool age kids of Han and Leia training to be Jedi.  Twins Jacen (a bit like his dad he had that charming smile and devil may care attitude but mostly came off as a joker) and Jana (very tech savy nerd type) and there friends and enemies. The training came off more realistic in my mind then luke's (although all based on the movies, like red laser droids and blask helmets that filtered out red, so you could still see everything but what was shooting at you, and weighted block for TK lifting and stacking) and it helped that I was in the age group...




I think my objections were summed up pretty well in Spectre of the Past/Vision of the Future, when Mara Jade was chewing out Luke. "So, how many times were your niece and nephews kidnapped? And when were you planning on getting something like adequate security protection for them?" "Yeah, I guess I've been pretty dumb."
I guess KJA just make Luke too much of a Mary Sue: He can do anything. Bring back Kyp Durron from the darkside? Barely requires a chapter. Blow up planets? pffft. the new super weapon can blow up entire star systems! Destroy it. bring it back. destroy it again.

Lucas has been rewriting cannon since 1978, when he tried to divorce himself from the 1978 Christmas special.

Maybe in the next DVD release, the MSE-6 droids will have 2 radar dishes CGI'd onto their chassis.


----------



## Jester David (Jan 13, 2014)

billd91 said:


> Hey fans, did you *enjoy* those stories when you read them? If so, money *not* wasted.



I thought about this for some time. For some fans, no, the enjoyment was enough. Some might feel they wasted their money on something that no longer mattered. And anyone who contributed to Wookiepedia might definitely feel slighted.

It's a little like, say, radically retconning Forgotten Realms canon to omit a swath of books. 
Or a sweeping continuity change in comics. I dropped Marvel comics entirely when they removed Peter's marriage and wiped out almost every Spider-man comic I had ever read (and every Spidey comic I owned, as I was 8 when they were married and any comic I owned pre-10 was read to pieces).

There's an investment in the EU. People took the time to read it and learn it and now chunks of it are going away and the works of dozens of writes might be vanishing because a studio writer doesn't want to research.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 13, 2014)

Mayhaps they'll chance to use this tome as their foundation...

http://www.quirkbooks.com/shakespearestarwars


----------



## sabrinathecat (Jan 13, 2014)

I think one of the best possible sources for expansions to the first two original movies would be the scenes added by Brian Daley to the radio scripts.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Jan 13, 2014)

Christmas Special.  That is all.


----------



## Kramodlog (Jan 13, 2014)

I hope they release it. I never saw it.


----------



## Zombie_Babies (Jan 13, 2014)

It's on youtube, I think.  Pretty sure that's how I saw it.  The Wookie love scene thing is amazing.  I had no idea Lucas was such a devout Timothy Leary follower.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 13, 2014)

goldomark said:


> I hope they release it. I never saw it.




Consider yourself lucky. Those '70s-era "variety" shows are gone for good reason.  

The Dragonlance movie is worse, but not by much. If you want to tempt 2d10 SAN loss, though ... have at it.


----------



## Desdichado (Jan 13, 2014)

Considering how cavalier George Lucas was about ignoring almost everything that happened in the EU and wiping out huge chunks of it with every move during the Prequels and the Clone Wars show, I'm failing to see how this is really a _significant_ change.  

The whole tiered canon thing was always kinda weird anyway.  Unless you're a writer for the book or comic line, I'm not sure why it mattered.

Speaking of which, didn't I also see an article not long ago that Marvel will be launching an in-house comic line for Star Wars again, and Dark Horse is out?  That seemed like a no-brainer; I'm actually surprised that it took as long as it did to happen.


----------



## Kramodlog (Jan 13, 2014)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> Consider yourself lucky. Those '70s-era "variety" shows are gone for good reason.
> 
> The Dragonlance movie is worse, but not by much. If you want to tempt 2d10 SAN loss, though ... have at it.



Dragonlance film?


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 13, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Dragonlance film?




You must have SAN to spare.  Or -- more likely -- you're already insane. In either case:

Dragons of Autumn Twilight

[video=youtube;UHrOfJ8_D0o]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UHrOfJ8_D0o[/video]


----------



## Kramodlog (Jan 14, 2014)

Cheapo.


----------



## bone_naga (Jan 14, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> not trying to argue, but could you tell me why? I have heard a lot of "This sucks" and not a lot of whys...
> 
> 
> 
> as for young jedi knights I was in highschool when they came out and were highschool age kids of Han and Leia training to be Jedi.  Twins Jacen (a bit like his dad he had that charming smile and devil may care attitude but mostly came off as a joker) and Jana (very tech savy nerd type) and there friends and enemies. The training came off more realistic in my mind then luke's (although all based on the movies, like red laser droids and blask helmets that filtered out red, so you could still see everything but what was shooting at you, and weighted block for TK lifting and stacking) and it helped that I was in the age group...



I think the Young Jedi Knight series was all right on its own (when I read it I hadn't read much SW literature other than the Thrawn Trilogy) but when put in the context of all the SW books out there, it was just more of the same (Imperials, dark jedi, turn someone back to the light side) with a different cast, although I will admit that having different stars was still refreshing, and for the younger audience I think they did just fine.

Most of the SW books just leave me wondering how many Jedi can go rogue, turn to the darkside, then turn back and face no consequences for their actions (which was at least brought up in the Fate of the Jedi series, but never really addressed by the Jedi Order), not to mention how many lone, forgotten Dark Jedi/Sith Masters there can be in the galaxy.

At least Timothy Zahn tried to put an end to the continuous "threat" from the "empire" that is smaller than the New Republic, has no force users, keeps getting their butts handed to them, yet also somehow keeps almost taking over the galaxy.


----------



## Henry (Jan 14, 2014)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> The best canon revision I can think of would be to ditch all of the revisions Lucas added later.
> 
> Han shot first, dang it.




Be prepared to experience SAN loss:

http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070902054424/starwars/images/7/79/Kelly_and_George.jpg


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Jan 14, 2014)

bone_naga said:


> I think the Young Jedi Knight series was all right on its own (when I read it I hadn't read much SW literature other than the Thrawn Trilogy) but when put in the context of all the SW books out there, it was just more of the same (Imperials, dark jedi, turn someone back to the light side) with a different cast, although I will admit that having different stars was still refreshing, and for the younger audience I think they did just fine.
> 
> Most of the SW books just leave me wondering how many Jedi can go rogue, turn to the darkside, then turn back and face no consequences for their actions (which was at least brought up in the Fate of the Jedi series, but never really addressed by the Jedi Order), not to mention how many lone, forgotten Dark Jedi/Sith Masters there can be in the galaxy.




I do think the shadow academy had more potential when it was just Barakis and the dark witch maeking 'shadow jedi' that were not good or evil but dark. I even like the idea that a dark jedi with shadow training could work with the republic. 

My biggest nit pick with star wars was sith=any dark user... I can imagine ALOT of force users fell to the dark side... but just as many that did should use that rage and anger to do somewhat good things... like hunt down and kill killers and empire people...


----------



## bone_naga (Jan 14, 2014)

GMforPowergamers said:


> I do think the shadow academy had more potential when it was just Barakis and the dark witch maeking 'shadow jedi' that were not good or evil but dark. I even like the idea that a dark jedi with shadow training could work with the republic.
> 
> My biggest nit pick with star wars was sith=any dark user... I can imagine ALOT of force users fell to the dark side... but just as many that did should use that rage and anger to do somewhat good things... like hunt down and kill killers and empire people...



Yeah, I agree on both points.

I liked it when they tried to play around with the morality thing a few times. When Jacen tapped into the Unifying Force that seemed like a starting point. When he turned dark side to save the galaxy, I thought that was a good point to blur the lines, but then he quickly devolved into a cookie-cutter bad-guy.

Vestara Kai was another character that had the potential to be different, being a Sith who ended up doing some good while she was with Ben, but it's SW and dark side = sith (despite them being a pretty specific order) = evil. 

I'd like to see something different. Someone that uses their anger to tap into the dark side to do good. Or maybe an order that uses the light and dark side interchangeably, seeing them both as tools and using whichever is best for the job at hand. They've certainly had a few share of non-force users that you can't quite place as good or bad. They even tried to retcon Palpatine into having some sort of altruistic motive for being a power-hungry maniac.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Jan 14, 2014)

bone_naga said:


> I'd like to see something different. Someone that uses their anger to tap into the dark side to do good. Or maybe an order that uses the light and dark side interchangeably, seeing them both as tools and using whichever is best for the job at hand. They've certainly had a few share of non-force users that you can't quite place as good or bad.




I would love to see a group of jedi fall to the dark side then go slaughter the enemies of the jedi... including sith. I would love to see what happened when a non force sensitive military commander has a Jedi and Non Jedi arguing what is basically religion and philosophy and counter with "I don't care who uses what side of the force, if you both have the same goal grow up and work together..."

I can't remember his name but the Boy who grew up with the twins and ended up training at the shadow academy I always imagined would grow up to be a bounty hunter dark jedi that helped jedi when he could even though he used the dark side he had nothing against them...

It gets even worse when we meet the jedi councle in the prequals who would have kicked luke to the curve a dozen times or more even not counting him 'falling' and working with the emperor... and I still see him as the quintessential jedi knight.


In an old west end games Star wars game taking place in the after math of the correlion trilogy (long before the NJO books came out) I played a Jedi with a Red light saber, and my partner (who was another PC with a blue one) used to tell me all the time I missed the memo on the color coding...


----------



## Scrivener of Doom (Jan 14, 2014)

Honestly, I would like to take _A New Hope_ and _Empire Strikes Back_ and then do everything else from scratch. It also wouldn't even bother me if both _A New Hope_ and _Empire Strikes Back_ were remade - and the unleashed nerdrage would only add to the fun.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 14, 2014)

Henry said:


> Be prepared to experience SAN loss:
> 
> http://static2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20070902054424/starwars/images/7/79/Kelly_and_George.jpg




*boggle* *gibber* *whimper*

I didn't know we were receiving internet from alternate universes.


----------



## billd91 (Jan 14, 2014)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> *boggle* *gibber* *whimper*
> 
> I didn't know we were receiving internet from alternate universes.




Isn't that the Bizarro George Lucas?


----------



## Kramodlog (Jan 14, 2014)

I think it is regular Troll Lucas.


----------

