# The Next Dungeons & Dragons Storyline Will Be...



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Told y’all


----------



## Ath-kethin (Jun 2, 2018)

Savin' me money. I love it.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Told y’all



There's still more stream to reveal, and they're not giving out the details for another hour it looks like...I'm sitting here with the edit page open waiting for them to give any decent information other than the "worst kept secret" line about Waterdeep...


----------



## jaynay27 (Jun 2, 2018)

How pedestrian. Would be good to see them do something a little bit on the edge, but i guess mainstream sells, maybe?


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

They haven’t given a formal name yet, have they?
Mostly ads so far and talking Neverwinter and the art book and not the RPG stuff.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> They haven’t given a formal name yet, have they?
> Mostly ads so far and talking Neverwinter and the art book and not the RPG stuff.




No not yet. Only confirmed it takes place in Waterdeep.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> They haven’t given a formal name yet, have they?
> Mostly ads so far and talking Neverwinter and the art book and not the RPG stuff.



Yeah, the full details won't be until the roundtable in another 20 minutes or so. I'll be updating with more information as it comes up on the stream.


----------



## TerraDave (Jun 2, 2018)

Like I said before: an actual FR adventure set in FR just seems too crazy...

There is still a lot of directions they could go with this. Lets see the details.


----------



## Helena Real (Jun 2, 2018)

Found on Reddit: 

http://comicbook.com/gaming/2018/06/01/dungeons-and-dragons-waterdeep-dragon-heist/

An urban treasure hunt on Waterdeep.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

And here: https://venturebeat.com/2018/06/01/...next-storyline/amp/?__twitter_impression=true


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

The sets are amazing and production values fun. 
But I liked how they announced the product right away in the Stream or Annihilation rather than delay for an hour and change.


----------



## Erdric Dragin (Jun 2, 2018)

One day we'll go back to the days of 2E where we got more and more setting lore. I miss those days. Now it's just adventures.....those things are a penny a dozen, if not by WotC then by tons of other companies.


----------



## This Effin’ GM (Jun 2, 2018)

After 3rd editions forgotten realms fluff I’m honestly happy to see adventures over lore. I know it’s not post spell plague lore specifically but I prefer post times of troubles FR. Also how sweet is it that we get a true urban adventure?


----------



## Melkor (Jun 2, 2018)

Yawn.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Erdric Dragin said:


> One day we'll go back to the days of 2E where we got more and more setting lore. I miss those days. Now it's just adventures.....those things are a penny a dozen, if not by WotC then by tons of other companies.



Honestly? Fluff doesn't sell. For any company or system. Lore, settings, etc. sell about 10% to 20% what splatbooks and adventures do. The only ones that tend to do well are ones that either also have a lot of new gear/powers/classes/etc. or are also adventures - specifically legal for whatever organized play there is for the system.


----------



## This Effin’ GM (Jun 2, 2018)

I am for some reason thoroughly convinced this will lead to the return of halastar blackbloak and therefor a revised undermountain game.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Erdric Dragin said:


> One day we'll go back to the days of 2E where we got more and more setting lore. I miss those days. Now it's just adventures.....those things are a penny a dozen, if not by WotC then by tons of other companies.



It's still there. Lore doesn't expire with edition changes. There's 649 WotC products on dmsguild.com associated with the Forgotten Realms.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> It's still there. Lore doesn't expire with edition changes. There's 649 WotC products on dmsguild.com associated with the Forgotten Realms.



This is another reason why WotC doesn't do much fluff. With them finally doing a digital back-catalogue, there's no longer a reason to publish a new "Guide to Insert City/Country/Megadungeon Here" for each new edition. Just make sure the rules can cover those and move on. It's also something people have used as clues for what locations will get big 5e expansions: If they haven't reprinted the "big book" for that setting, there's a chance that's something they're holding back for 5e. At least that's the logic behind the rumors and speculation...


----------



## dave2008 (Jun 2, 2018)

Melkor said:


> Yawn.



  It it your bedtime?


----------



## Remathilis (Jun 2, 2018)

Consider this pre-ordered.


----------



## This Effin’ GM (Jun 2, 2018)

You can choose your villain? It’s like a dark reflection of lords of Waterdeep. Halastar or bust, I say


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 2, 2018)

I’ve been hoping for an immersive urban adventure, and this hits that nicely. Also being inspired by heists is a definite bonus. I’m sold!

Still disappointed that it’s not a new setting, if they are going to do FR, then this really embraces FR rather just using FR as a generic setting to port Greyhawk stuff to.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Freelancers working on the project include Matt Mercer, podcaster extraordinary James Introcaso, and former EN5ider editor James Haeck!
Nice! I love all those people. That just pushed my excitement levels from "eh, maybe" to "okay, must buy".


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 2, 2018)

Marcelus14 said:


> You can choose your villain? It’s like a dark reflection of lords of Waterdeep. Halastar or bust, I say




Yep, 4 villains each tied to a different season. So you can replay it and experience a different part of Waterdeep’s holidays/other annual events/etc.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Jun 2, 2018)

I'm a huge fan of urban D&D/fantasy settings. (As opposed to the "urban fantasy" genre, which is a different thing, though I also like that.) _Cityscape_ might've been a clue to that. 

I'll be getting this for urban rules, story seeds, and NPCs/monsters, far more than for the adventure itself. (Though I'm sure I'll mine it for ideas.)


----------



## werecorpse (Jun 2, 2018)

Someone in chat said it was for levels 1-20. Did one of the presenters say that?


----------



## pukunui (Jun 2, 2018)

*New Storyline = Waterdeep*

And the new storyline is: Waterdeep!

*Part One:*






The adventure takes place in Waterdeep. The book is equal parts adventure and "city-based adventure guide". It's *not* a "save the world" adventure. 

The DM chooses one of four villains for the PCs to go up against during the adventure, and this choice affects even what season the adventure takes place in. The goal is for the PCs to stop the villain from finding and claiming a hidden treasure hoard.

I imagine there will be more info forthcoming as the Stream of Many Eyes continues.


Also, that would appear to be Jarlaxe on the cover ... and the Xanathar behind him.




			
				Chris Perkins said:
			
		

> Waterdeep Dragon Heist takes D&D back to civilization in an environment which encourages a lot of roleplaying ... A lot of the inspiration was from things like Ocean’s Eleven and The Italian Job in a city environment. Where the goal of the adventure is to try and find a trove of treasure and keep it out of the hands of villains.
> 
> I love this story because it’s not a world-shattering event. It feels very much grounded and you can get the sense that you can lose yourself in this city. Waterdeep is a character. It’s got a personality of its own. And one of the great things about it is it’s a very adventurer-friendly city. The people of the city know what adventurers are like, and they’ve got this kind of New York City blase attitude about them.





_Waterdeep: Dragon Heist_, for levels 1-5, will be released on September 20th.


*Part Two:*





_Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage_, for levels 6-20, will be released on November 20th.


----------



## Prakriti (Jun 2, 2018)

This is the most promising adventure premise to date. It has the potential to be a classic.


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jun 2, 2018)

AH I wish they had the player levels on the cover.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Mouseferatu said:


> I'm a huge fan of urban D&D/fantasy settings. (As opposed to the "urban fantasy" genre, which is a different thing, though I also like that.) _Cityscape_ might've been a clue to that.
> 
> I'll be getting this for urban rules, story seeds, and NPCs/monsters, far more than for the adventure itself. (Though I'm sure I'll mine it for ideas.)



I'm shocked - shocked - that you would have a soft spot for urban fantasy...


----------



## plisnithus8 (Jun 2, 2018)

It looks like the heist will be to steal the Infinity Gauntlet.


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 2, 2018)

werecorpse said:


> Someone in chat said it was for levels 1-20. Did one of the presenters say that?




I didn’t catch the last 10-15 minute of th round table, but prior to that I didn’t hear level range mentioned. HOWEVER, it might be flexible especially since it’s much less dungeon based and more directly competing against rivals that likely scale with you. A big hint in this direction is Jeremy Crawford specifically mentioned it starts with an intro quest and then a downtime pause that could last “weeks, months, or even years” and a DM could fit an entire adventure or other campaign in there before the main heist story starts, implying you could possibly play an entirely other one of the 5e adventures before starting this OR start it right away at low level. They (Jeremy again??) also mentioned you could focus very tightly on just the heist and treasure hunt and play it as a rather short adventure, or expand it with various quests throughout Waterdeep to make it much longer. 

All those seem to point to it being scale-able and very flexible.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

From Perkin's Twitter feed:


----------



## Remathilis (Jun 2, 2018)

plisnithus8 said:


> It looks like the heist will be to steal the Infunity Gauntlet.




Well, the Russo brothers DID describe Infinity War as a heist-movie from Thanos's point of view...


----------



## pukunui (Jun 2, 2018)

Patrick McGill said:


> AH I wish they had the player levels on the cover.



I know what levels the playtest version was for, but I'm yet to find an official announcement about the final version's level spread. I will keep looking.

EDIT: Chris Perkins just tweeted: _"Level details to come over the course of the weekend."_


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 2, 2018)

Nice artwork!

I see an Apparatus of Kwalish in that first one!

And I'm curious... and a bit apprehensive... to find out the story behind fetish-gear pirate...


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> From Perkin's Twitter feed:




A Zardoz reference??? Really?! I need to wash my eyes!


----------



## Mouseferatu (Jun 2, 2018)

The guy in the second picture, second row, far left makes me think of Steven Brust. 

(If you've met him, you'll understand.)


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> Nice artwork!
> 
> I see an Apparatus of Kwalish in that first one!
> 
> And I'm curious... and a bit apprehensive... to find out the story behind fetish-gear pirate...



ZARDOZ


----------



## Tales and Chronicles (Jun 2, 2018)

'sight' WotC should know better....I have a kid to rise now! They shouldnt tempt me with such awesome product. I'm only human with a tight budget and with two tables doing one AP each.

Would someone be interested in buying a kidney? Or maybe my liver? Only used for 28 years.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> ZARDOZ




And you're totally right, I didn't even think along those lines - I guess that hat threw me off. Now _that's_ an obscure reference!

Also, is that Volo sitting in front of the face-fireplace?


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 2, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> And you're totally right, I didn't even think along those lines - I guess that hat threw me off. Now _that's_ an obscure reference!
> 
> Also, is that Volo sitting in front of the face-fireplace?




Could be. Matthew Sernett wrote a chapter of Volo giving an in-character tour of Waterdeep.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

And more:


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

View attachment 98018
I tried to find some quote from the movie to make a joke, but none of the identifiable ones are SFW...


----------



## pukunui (Jun 2, 2018)

Chris Perkins is posting some pics of the art from the book on Twitter:


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Here's some images Mike Mearls tweeted of the set they're using for the stream.

View attachment 98020
View attachment 98021
View attachment 98022


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> And more:




More excellent art, as always. I love the mind flayer petting its pet intellect devourer as if it were a kitten or something!


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jun 2, 2018)

https://www.beadleandgrimms.com/store-swag/platinum-edition

If you have 500 dollars to set on fire, you can buy a special edition from this website which is some sort of deluxe box set with miniatures, maps, props, etc.

No actual pictures of what comes in the box, however.


----------



## Ralif Redhammer (Jun 2, 2018)

Halaster returned at the end of the D&D Open two Origins ago. I was sure what turned out to be Tomb of Annihilation was going to be Undermountain-related, so it's long overdue.

Also, glad I'm not the only one that saw that Zardoz reference, folks!



Marcelus14 said:


> I am for some reason thoroughly convinced this will lead to the return of halastar blackbloak and therefor a revised undermountain game.


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jun 2, 2018)

pukunui said:


> Chris Perkins is posting some pics of the art from the book on Twitter:




Ah ! But you forgot the one with the half-naked pirate in bondage getup.

View attachment 98023


----------



## pukunui (Jun 2, 2018)

I somehow missed that one ...


EDIT: 







Patrick McGill said:


> If you have 500 dollars to set on fire, you can buy a special edition from this website which is some sort of deluxe box set with miniatures, maps, props, etc.



Well, people *have* been asking for boxed sets ...


----------



## jgsugden (Jun 2, 2018)

Patrick McGill said:


> https://www.beadleandgrimms.com/store-swag/platinum-edition
> 
> If you have 500 dollars to set on fire, you can buy a special edition from this website which is some sort of deluxe box set with miniatures, maps, props, etc.
> 
> No actual pictures of what comes in the box, however.



A penny less than $450 now.  What a deal!


----------



## silentdante (Jun 2, 2018)

who or what is the dark elf? and the floating tentacle thing? actually does anyone know the names of each of these NPC's? i for one am excited for all the urban rules, i have a character i have wanted to own a chain of pubs and this will further that even more.

i hope the naysayers and people made tired by this see some merit in a design doc for cities, though i am sure their home brew stuff is just top notch.


----------



## paintphob (Jun 2, 2018)

Middle image, first column, third row, looks like we may see a Beast Cult in the adventure.


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 2, 2018)

Plus, am I the only one who saw the cover image small and thought it was a big-headed halfling with a blue dress?


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

silentdante said:


> who or what is the dark elf? and the floating tentacle thing? actually does anyone know the names of each of these NPC's?




The Drow is Jarlaxle. They haven't confirmed that the beholder is Xanathar that I'm aware of, but it's Xanathar. They've both been characters in Forgotten Realms for a long time now and if you're not sure who they are, the links go to the FR wiki for a background.


----------



## silentdante (Jun 2, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> The Drow is Jarlaxle. They haven't confirmed that the beholder is Xanathar that I'm aware of, but it's Xanathar. They've both been characters in Forgotten Realms for a long time now and if you're not sure who they are, the links go to the FR wiki for a background.




ah no, i meant in the little character portraits someone posted, it looks like a dark elf or something blue and the monster over the shoulder is a floating thing with tentacle things flowing underneath it, i dont think that is a beholder.

(and a side note, the book is out in game stores on the 6th of september too)


----------



## Nilonym (Jun 2, 2018)

Melkor said:


> Yawn.




So cool.


----------



## pukunui (Jun 2, 2018)

In the first set of images, there’s a picture of a halfling attempting to steal the Xanathar’s goldfish!

Also, there are three “seasonal” variations of the same city street.


----------



## Ancalagon (Jun 2, 2018)

Oooooh - *very* interested by this one.  And I love the art!


----------



## Kite474 (Jun 2, 2018)

Hmmm. Well they finally did it. I am intrigued by an adventure. Now lets see how deep it goes into the city planning of Waterdeep. 

Im interested to see how to combine this with Strongholds and Followers

But yeah this seems neat. It helps its using the one thing thats worth a dam from The Realms


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

silentdante said:


> ah no, i meant in the little character portraits someone posted, it looks like a dark elf or something blue and the monster over the shoulder is a floating thing with tentacle things flowing underneath it, i dont think that is a beholder.




Ah. Yeah, not sure yet who the drow is, but the monster's a grell.



> (and a side note, the book is out in game stores on the 6th of september too)




Yeah, I just use the mass market retail release because WotC never officially publishes dates for game/hobby store releases officially anymore. If they want me to use the Sept 6 release date, they can put it somewhere that doesn't require a WPN login or digging through eight nested webpages of product releases to cite it


----------



## soulcatcher78 (Jun 2, 2018)

It's going to be year of the cities. Between this and the DCC treatment of Lankhmar there's going to be a lot of urban adventure in my immediate future. I'm curious what they did for random tables given the mention of the old city system boxed set being an inspiration. I'll keep my copy of Vornheim handy just in case, lol.


----------



## This Effin’ GM (Jun 2, 2018)

I was thinking year of dungeons too. This close to undermountain, Rappan Athuk 5e, into the borderlands....mmm mmmm mmmm tasty.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 2, 2018)

Looks interesting and I plopped down and got the platinum box to see if it's adds to our game more so than stuff I've down myself.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

The official Dungeons & Dragons Facebook page just updated their profile image to this logo:

View attachment 98024


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

There's also this: 
https://www.beadleandgrimms.com/


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> There's also this:
> https://www.beadleandgrimms.com/



Yeah, that was the first update I made to the article...just kind of ended up buried under the rest of it because I'm not sure if a $450 box of props is all that interesting...

PS.: Posting this because you haven't yet  "I fixed the cover for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist" - Jester David

View attachment 98025


----------



## werecorpse (Jun 2, 2018)

I'm thinking I should be able to slot it in nicely into my LMoP, ToD, PoA, SKT amalgam campaign.


----------



## werecorpse (Jun 2, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Yeah, that was the first update I made to the article...just kind of ended up buried under the rest of it because I'm not sure if a $450 box of props is all that interesting...
> 
> PS.: Posting this because you haven't yet  "I fixed the cover for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist" - Jester David
> 
> View attachment 98025




who took Thanos' infinity gauntlet?


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Posting this because you haven't yet  "I fixed the cover for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist" - Jester David



I needed to be done. I _had_ to ‘shop it.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> I needed to be done. I _had_ to ‘shop it.



I mean, we were _all_ thinking it the moment the cover was revealed.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 2, 2018)

Patrick McGill said:


> https://www.beadleandgrimms.com/store-swag/platinum-edition
> 
> If you have 500 dollars to set on fire, you can buy a special edition from this website which is some sort of deluxe box set with miniatures, maps, props, etc.
> 
> No actual pictures of what comes in the box, however.



They said no spoilers and you don't get it until the book comes out. But, I'm thinking the player handouts Matt Mercer used on the game tonight are part of the set. Nothing but paper scrolls so far.


----------



## Tales and Chronicles (Jun 2, 2018)

Read on Reddit that the DM get to choose 1 of 4 factions the players will oppose in their heist to recover a lost dragon hoard (IIRC there's a large treasure at the bottom of the WD harbor kept by a kraken-thing, explaining the Kalish apparatus in the pictures). Depending of which faction you choose, it changes the season the adventure occur. That's simple yet fun, with a potential of ''replay''.


----------



## pukunui (Jun 2, 2018)

vincegetorix said:


> Read on Reddit that the DM get to choose 1 of 4 factions the players will oppose in their heist to recover a lost dragon hoard (IIRC there's a large treasure at the bottom of the WD harbor kept by a kraken-thing, explaining the Kalish apparatus in the pictures). Depending of which faction you choose, it changes the season the adventure occur. That's simple yet fun, with a potential of ''replay''.



Yep. I mentioned that in the OP. Of course, they did a similar thing with SKT and people complained bitterly about the amount of “wasted” space since you apparently can’t use all of the adventure in one go (which isn’t the case at all). 

I wonder how many people will make the same complaint about this one: “I can only use 1/4 of this adventure at a time? I want my money back! Waaaah!!!1!”


----------



## lordstimpy (Jun 2, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Yeah, that was the first update I made to the article...just kind of ended up buried under the rest of it because I'm not sure if a $450 box of props is all that interesting...
> 
> PS.: Posting this because you haven't yet  "I fixed the cover for Waterdeep: Dragon Heist" - Jester David
> 
> View attachment 98025




Yeah not $450 box, but I would pay a bit for a bunch of maps.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 2, 2018)

pukunui said:


> I wonder how many people will make the same complaint about this one: “I can only use 1/4 of this adventure at a time? I want my money back! Waaaah!!!1!”



A quarter of them?

I actually really like how this is half urban setting, half adventure plots. As mentioned during the round table, its a skin or outline with some details here and there so that you can easily base your adventure in Waterdeep and use WH not only for the 4 plot lines, but also to flesh out with your own creations and plots.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Product page is up. Says the Adventure is for levels 1-5!!! So ya, there is definitely a higher level follow up being announced tomorrow. Undermountain!!


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Product page is up. Says the Adventure is for levels 1-5!!! So ya, there is definitely a higher level follow up being announced tomorrow. Undermountain!!




When are they announcing that? I don’t see another announcement or round table on the scheduled for tomorrow or Sunday.


----------



## Tales and Chronicles (Jun 2, 2018)

pukunui said:


> Yep. I mentioned that in the OP. Of course, they did a similar thing with SKT and people complained bitterly about the amount of “wasted” space since you apparently can’t use all of the adventure in one go (which isn’t the case at all).
> 
> I wonder how many people will make the same complaint about this one: “I can only use 1/4 of this adventure at a time? I want my money back! Waaaah!!!1!”




For now Reddit is still on the ''FR hate'' train, I'm sure the complaints about wasted material will come at release. I'm sure that some DM would be able to re-use the adventure by changing the faction and the wanted treasure to make full use of the book.


----------



## mach1.9pants (Jun 2, 2018)

I like the idea of the adventure, and having a bit of City System in there as well. But Waterdeep: Dragon Heist? Awful name, we're stealing a dragon?


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> When are they announcing that? I don’t see another announcement or round table on the scheduled for tomorrow or Sunday.




Probably first thing. They did the same last year. Didn’t schedule the announcement for Xanathars, but announced it second day of the stream all the same.


----------



## chibi graz'zt (Jun 2, 2018)

Urban adventure at last!
and my favorite city next to Sigil!


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Probably first thing. They did the same last year. Didn’t schedule the announcement for Xanathars, but announced it second day of the stream all the same.



They announced Xanathar’s the same day. Within the first couple hours IIRC.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> They announced Xanathar’s the same day. Within the first couple hours IIRC.




You do not remember correctly. They announced it after the recap day 2. It leaked early day 1 but it wasn’t formally announced.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

thecampaign20xx.blogspot.com/2017/06/stream-of-annihilation-day-two.html?m=1

Here’s proof. Powerscore did write ups for both days last year. This is day two where they announced it.


----------



## Irennan (Jun 2, 2018)

mach1.9pants said:


> I like the idea of the adventure, and having a bit of City System in there as well. But Waterdeep: Dragon Heist? Awful name, we're stealing a dragon?




A Dragon also is a Waterdhavian gold coin. You're stealing a treasure, therefore... gods, the puns.


----------



## Birmy (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Product page is up. Says the Adventure is for levels 1-5!!! So ya, there is definitely a higher level follow up being announced tomorrow. Undermountain!!




I bet you're right. Both the titling convention ("Waterdeep: _______") and the logo treatment on the cover suggest it would be part of a series.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Okay, I'm officially done updating the article for the night (aside from corrections). Pretty sure that's all the information we're going to get unless someone slips up on social media or someone else breaks embargo on what "Catacombs" is due November 20.


----------



## AmerginLiath (Jun 2, 2018)

It makes me sad to see how many of you are talking about “the pirate in bondage gear”...the dude is dressed like Zed from Zardoz! It’s a classic Sean Connery character and film, folks, practically ripped from Appendix N!


----------



## lordstimpy (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> You do not remember correctly. They announced it after the recap day 2. It leaked early day 1 but it wasn’t formally announced.





Xanathar was day 2, but they had the art of the special cover on the wall of the green room that made it into a few first day photos.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jun 2, 2018)

pukunui said:


> It's *not* a "save the world" adventure.



Since it's only levels 1-5 it doesn't count.

Give me an official WotC adventure for level *15* heroes that does not save the world, and we can talk.

Not to mention the current trend, where even level 1 heroes are asked to save the world, and doing so as early as level 11...


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> You do not remember correctly. They announced it after the recap day 2. It leaked early day 1 but it wasn’t formally announced.



Fair enough. 
But there’s still not a place for an announcement in the schedule. Where are they announcing it? Why would they have that as a surprise? Or hide where the second big reveal is?


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> Fair enough.
> But there’s still not a place for an announcement in the schedule. Where are they announcing it? Why would they have that as a surprise? Or hide where the second big reveal is?




Beats me. My guess is first thing tomorrow before the games or after the first one. But iirc the schedule last year didn’t have a slot for the Xanathar announcement. Just the recap. Maybe I’m wrong. Either way they have a second (and third) book to announce this weekend. So it’s gotta come somewhere.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Beats me. My guess is first thing tomorrow before the games or after the first one. But iirc the schedule last year didn’t have a slot for the Xanathar announcement. Just the recap. Maybe I’m wrong.



Why would they have it first thing and delay a game? Which people have paid to see.
Also I don’t recall them having as formal a schedule last time.



GarrettKP said:


> Either way they have a second (and third) book to announce this weekend. So it’s gotta come somewhere.



Why?
If it’s a second adventure, why not announce it in a month or two? Or after the Waterdeep one comes out. 
They didn’t do a big stream for Tome of Foes.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> Fair enough.
> But there’s still not a place for an announcement in the schedule. Where are they announcing it? Why would they have that as a surprise? Or hide where the second big reveal is?



Previous streams, they didn't schedule any of the product announcements. They just did them randomly through the day. Usually it was stuff like board games and miniatures and other third party stuff.

Seeing the product page and the adventure only being for levels 1-5 made me dig a bit and I remembered the distributor solicitations under codenames from last year. I can't see them doing another big stream to announce another hardcover that's coming out a month after WDH... "Broadway" was listed as a 256 page hardcover with a release date of September 18 while "Catacombs" was listed as a 256 page hardcover with a release date of November 20. So my money is at some point tomorrow, they'll announce a second module dealing with Undermountain.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> Why would they have it first thing and delay a game? Which people have paid to see.
> Also I don’t recall them having as formal a schedule last time.
> 
> 
> ...




The games people paid to see are Sunday, not tomorrow. 

And because precedence. The Meltdown Stream they announced both fall books (Storm Kings and Volos). Stream of Annihilation they announced both. No reason to expect they won’t do the same here.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 2, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Previous streams, they didn't schedule any of the product announcements. They just did them randomly through the day. Usually it was stuff like board games and miniatures and other third party stuff.
> 
> Seeing the product page and the adventure only being for levels 1-5 made me dig a bit and I remembered the distributor solicitations under codenames from last year. I can't see them doing another big stream to announce another hardcover that's coming out a month after WDH... "Broadway" was listed as a 256 page hardcover with a release date of September 18 while "Catacombs" was listed as a 256 page hardcover with a release date of November 20. So my money is at some point tomorrow, they'll announce a second module dealing with Undermountain.




My thoughts exactly (other than I think there might still be a chance it won't be Undermountain, although I won't be surprised if it is). They've announced the two fall releases in the same event the last few years.

It being 1 - 5 means two things, in my opinion. Firstly, the November release will be a sequel, or at least somehow connected, to this adventure. And secondly, since it will be re-playable in four different ways, they're setting it up to be a new "starter adventure" in addition to _Lost Mines_...


----------



## aurvay (Jun 2, 2018)

>Releases XGtE
>Extraplanar character options like horizon walker
>Reprints of previous options that are non-FR specific
>Releases MToF
>All about extraplanar conflicts
>Extraplanar monsters with high CRs
>Here comes WH
>Low level
>FR specific
>Sword Coast yet again


----------



## hbarsquared (Jun 2, 2018)

*sigh*
This looks amazing.  I've been looking forward to something like this for years.  _Leverage_ and _National Treasure_ in D&D!

But, once again, WotC dashes my hopes for Eberron.  I know I can modify this, probably pretty easily, that's not a problem.  But this would have been the _perfect_ adventure for an Eberron setting introduction.  If they were to ever officially release Eberron, it would be with exactly this type of adventure.

Now that it's been taking by Forgotten Realms... I see Eberron being even less likely on the horizon.  And that makes me sad.


----------



## Ashran (Jun 2, 2018)

Am I alone on NOT being awed by the title of the new book... nor the subject mattters... I must not really be the target... but I am not the target for a third book in a row.... I never really liked robbery stories and according to the name at least it's the subjext matter. What I would like is a planar adventure, or another world than fr... and a higher level count (oh I wish for player level 12-20.....).


----------



## Mouseferatu (Jun 2, 2018)

My only complaint so far is the mind flayer picture--and it's not a problem with the picture per se, but the implications.

I know I'm shouting into the wind. I know this ship's done sailed. But I hate mind flayers (or beholders, for that matter) being treated as just funky-looking NPCs. They should be truly alien, incomprehensible. They should _not_ be keeping pets or participating in commerce or... GAH!

(I'm only not complaining about Xanathar because it's already even more too late for beholders than it is for mind flayers.  )


----------



## Paul Farquhar (Jun 2, 2018)

Is it just me or does this sound boring as Hell*.


*Figuratively speaking. Hell would actually be far more interesting.


----------



## Greg Benage (Jun 2, 2018)

Paul Farquhar said:


> Is it just me or does this sound boring as Hell*.
> 
> 
> *Figuratively speaking. Hell would actually be far more interesting.




Different strokes and all, but yeah, a bit of a let down for me from speculation about an Undermountain megadungeon or planar adventure path.


----------



## Aldarc (Jun 2, 2018)

Wow, these adventure paths that WotC keep picking keep on disappointing. Oh, well.


----------



## werecorpse (Jun 2, 2018)

Aldarc said:


> Wow, these adventure paths that WotC keep picking keep on disappointing. Oh, well.




What would you prefer?


----------



## Paul Farquhar (Jun 2, 2018)

Greg Benage said:


> Different strokes and all, but yeah, a bit of a let down for me from speculation about an Undermountain megadungeon or planar adventure path.




Yeah. Giving it some thought, this sounds like something that might appeal to my players. A comic heist might be right up their street, when I would rather be battling across the barren wastes of Arthas or flying my starship into the unknown!

Although the last time they attempted a heist it went appallingly badly...


----------



## mach1.9pants (Jun 2, 2018)

Irennan said:


> A Dragon also is a Waterdhavian gold coin. You're stealing a treasure, therefore... gods, the puns.




Aaaah thanks, still think it sounds like a lame B grade straight to DVD movie  - but it does make a little more sense!


----------



## Nilonym (Jun 2, 2018)

Aldarc said:


> Wow, these adventure paths that WotC keep picking keep on disappointing. Oh, well.




Not me. From the overall tone of this thread, not many.


----------



## BBShockwave (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> From Perkin's Twitter feed:



Images are missing... can you repost please?


----------



## Ogre Mage (Jun 2, 2018)

AmerginLiath said:


> It makes me sad to see how many of you are talking about “the pirate in bondage gear”...the dude is dressed like Zed from Zardoz! It’s a classic Sean Connery character and film, folks, practically ripped from Appendix N!




I have not seen that film, but my former boss told me that _Zardoz_ is the worst science-fiction movie of all time and among the worst 5 movies of all time.

If this module is an urban treasure hunt, I think rogues, bards, enchantment/illusion wizards, trickery clerics and sorcerers with subtle spell will loom large.


----------



## Leatherhead (Jun 2, 2018)

pukunui said:


> Chris Perkins is posting some pics of the art from the book on Twitter:




There seems to be a plethora of rapiers in this art set. Even the paladinish guy is holding one.

Also some hand crossbows.

I wonder if this art is meant to reflect AL characters?


----------



## Hexmage-EN (Jun 2, 2018)

aurvay said:


> >Releases MToF
> >All about extraplanar conflicts




Eh, more like 25% about extraplanar conflicts. It did detail the Blood War and the Gith, but then proceeded to be a grab bag of PHB race lore and subraces before transitioning into a bestiary with a bit more emphasis on the planes than before, but not much.

I still like Mordenkainen's Tome of Foes overall, but it definitely felt like a case of bait-and-switch.


----------



## Staffan (Jun 2, 2018)

Since the adventure is only level 1-5 (I'm guessing it's smaller because they include variants, and a big chunk of the book is a Waterdeep sourcebook in disguise as an adventure), I'm hoping it will have lots of forward-pointing hooks in it.

My comparison for this would be the Dark Sun adventure Freedom!. Over the course of that adventure, the PCs (usually individually rather than as a group) have opportunities to get mixed up with many different groups: the Veiled Alliance, the Templars, various nobles, and so on. There are some places in the adventure where being involved with a group in an early part affects what happens in a later part, but the main reason for the involvement is to provide the PCs with allies/patrons that can send them off on later adventures. That's what I would hope to see out of this adventure.


----------



## Maialideth (Jun 2, 2018)

Yet another Forgotten Realms book. I'm probably going to pass on that, unless it has enough good stuff to plug into my own game. I really want to support D&D, I would buy every book (I bought Chronomancers for AD&D 2e...) just not Forgotten Realms, it is too boring.


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

An Adventure Guide for Waterdeep, we already have the SCAG. 

 I wish WotC would realize there is alot more to FR then the Swordcoast.

 I would have put this adventure in Calimshan.

 Still I will try and keep an open mind. I wonder if it contains any player material if its part Waterdeep Adventurers Guide.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jun 2, 2018)

The SCAG was so thin and weak it basically doesn't count.


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> The SCAG was so thin and weak it basically doesn't count.




 Still would have prefered a city from a different region, Skuld, Calimport, ect...


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/dragonheist


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

https://youtu.be/mlwlv63LGN4[video=youtube_share;mlwlv63LGN4]https://youtu.be/mlwlv63LGN4[/video]


----------



## oreofox (Jun 2, 2018)

Maialideth said:


> Yet another Forgotten Realms book. I'm probably going to pass on that, unless it has enough good stuff to plug into my own game. I really want to support D&D, I would buy every book (I bought Chronomancers for AD&D 2e...) just not Forgotten Realms, it is too boring.




Reminds me of Paizo with their obsession with the Inner Sea area of their world. They had about 4-5 APs set in Verisia alone. Though WotC focuses on a smaller portion, the Sword Coast. It gets annoying. There's more to Faerun than the Sword Coast.

While the premise behind this adventure doesn't really interest me much, I still might get it as more monsters is always a good thing, and I might be able to yoink a few things from this. The same way I was able to do with other setting books back in 2e.


----------



## SkidAce (Jun 2, 2018)

Around 1:34, Waterdeep, "capital of Faerun".


----------



## dwayne (Jun 2, 2018)

I do not buy adventures, i make them so this is of very little use, even more so abhorrent realms material. I still have only bought the 3 basic books from them everything else has been 3rd party who are making better more varied things. 5e ultrmodern, and some home brew stuff off the web to fill the gaps even here the patron stuff has been more than what they have been pushing. If they do put out undermountain i might look at it to use for dungeon craws if it has some viable stuff but at this point i doubt it.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Previous streams, they didn't schedule any of the product announcements. They just did them randomly through the day. Usually it was stuff like board games and miniatures and other third party stuff.



Not really
http://dnd.wizards.com/streamofannihilation
They had the news clearly marked in the schedule. Which always took a good half hour. 

They want people to know. To be watching. That’s the point of the reveal. 



GarrettKP said:


> And because precedence. The Meltdown Stream they announced both fall books (Storm Kings and Volos). Stream of Annihilation they announced both. No reason to expect they won’t do the same here.



The precedence was set for an adventure and an accessory.
They’re already changing things by releasing two adventures.


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

SkidAce said:


> Around 1:34, Waterdeep, "capital of Faerun".




 More like the spiritual and cultural capital of Faerun then a literal capital of Faerun, think Rome during the Renaissance, but with steampunk and magitech elements.


----------



## dave2008 (Jun 2, 2018)

Aldarc said:


> Wow, these adventure paths that WotC keep picking keep on disappointing. Oh, well.




If I understand correctly the adventure for levels 1-5 and it is 256 pages.  They also mentioned new urban environment rules.  It seems to me this is as much, if not more, and urban adventure book with a starter adventure thrown in than a proper adventure path.  Now that may not be your thing, but it seem to be to a potentially really useful supplement.  I know I struggle to handle urabn environments well, and if this can help, I will pick it up regardless of the adventure.


----------



## Tormyr (Jun 2, 2018)

Leatherhead said:


> There seems to be a plethora of rapiers in this art set. Even the paladinish guy is holding one.
> 
> Also some hand crossbows.
> 
> I wonder if this art is meant to reflect AL characters?




I haven't had a chance to check. Is the paladin a gnome?


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

I'm kind of starting to warm up to this idea, but we will have learn more details. If it had to be a city on the Swordcoast, I'm glad its Waterdeep.


----------



## werecorpse (Jun 2, 2018)

dave2008 said:


> If I understand correctly the adventure for levels 1-5 and it is 256 pages.....




1-5?

I thought it was for levels 1-15.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> The precedence was set for an adventure and an accessory.
> They’re already changing things by releasing two adventures.




Sure. But the fact that the adventures are likely connected means it would be stupid not to announce them this weekend. Dragon Heist is 1-5. There’s no way they would only release that as the big announcement with everyone clamoring for higher level content. And the code names line up for a Waterdeep and Undermountain combo pack. 

Today they will announce Catacomb as an Undermountain companion to Dragon Heist, and I’ll take the prediction a step further and say it’ll be high level. Roughly 1-20ish. And I also fully expect them to announce a 3rd fall book Sunday. 

Either way, if I’m right or wrong, we will know today.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

werecorpse said:


> 1-5?
> 
> I thought it was for levels 1-15.




Nope. Product page says 1-5.


----------



## QuestsandChaos (Jun 2, 2018)

I will for sure be streaming gameplay of this campaign on our new channel.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Sure. But the fact that the adventures are likely connected means it would be stupid not to announce them this weekend. Dragon Heist is 1-5.



Unless they want to focus the excitement and hype on this adventure for a little while, letting it have the spotlight. Let the streaming shows do Waterdeep for a few months and such. And then, in a few months and closer to the releases, announce the November release. 



GarrettKP said:


> There’s no way they would only release that as the big announcement with everyone clamoring for higher level content. And the code names line up for a Waterdeep and Undermountain combo pack.



Announcing them at the same time doesn't get the content to people any sooner. People will still be clamoring for it...

Honestly, with more freelancers involved, the smaller level range, and even the name of this book, I can more easily see a companion Undermountain book. _Waterdeep: Dragon Heist_ and _Waterdeep: Madness of Halaster_.



GarrettKP said:


> Today they will announce Catacomb as an Undermountain companion to Dragon Heist, and I’ll take the prediction a step further and say it’ll be high level. Roughly 1-20ish.



They normally announce the spring release three to four months in advance. January or February for April (or, in this year, May).
It's not inconceivable they'll try to announce it a few days after _Dragon Heist_ drops and hope no online retailer spoils the name.



GarrettKP said:


> And I also fully expect them to announce a 3rd fall book Sunday.



My thoughts on that are well known.


----------



## Hutchimus Prime (Jun 2, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> Either way, if I’m right or wrong, we will know today.




Any idea what time today we should expect the announcement?


----------



## dave2008 (Jun 2, 2018)

werecorpse said:


> 1-5?
> 
> I thought it was for levels 1-15.




WotC product page says 1-5:  http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/dragonheist


----------



## Lidgar (Jun 2, 2018)

I know some will love this. Not for me though. 

Still holding out hope for Catacombs...


----------



## happyhermit (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> ...
> They normally announce the spring release three to four months in advance. January or February for April (or, in this year, May).
> It's not inconceivable they'll try to announce it a few days after _Dragon Heist_ drops and hope no online retailer spoils the name.
> ...




I just watched the beginning of yesterday's stream and Nathan said stuff almost to the effect of "where we unveil all of the years product" not sure exactly what was meant but it does indicate there might be more.


----------



## robus (Jun 2, 2018)

I really don't get the push for replayability? It's my understanding that most tables can't keep up with even the current release schedule, let alone want to play the same adventure twice?

This is definitely a different flavor of adventure which is nice, but I'm curious the see the details. I imagine it'll take some masterful DMing to keep the NPCs distinct and interesting.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

happyhermit said:


> I just watched the beginning of yesterday's stream and Nathan said stuff almost to the effect of "where we unveil all of the years product" not sure exactly what was meant but it does indicate there might be more.



I'm always dubious when people say stuff like that live. Because people misspeak. 
He was describing the last two streams where they revealed everything for the year. He _may_ have been talking about this stream. Or he _may_ have goofed as there wasn't editing and no script & teleprompter.

Sure, they *might* delay the start of Sirens of the Realms at 10am to announce something. Or end it early and do a quick reveal between it Rivals of Waterdeep at 12:30. But why wouldn't they put that on the schedule?


----------



## Birmy (Jun 2, 2018)

For those who care about such things, there's a product page up now for a _Dragon Heist_-themed dice set (similar to what they did for _Tomb of Annihilation_). It comes with a hit point tracker and the standard array of dice, including an extra d20 (which, based on the photo, is huge for some reason).

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/waterdeep-dragon-heist-dice


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

So Greg Tito (the guy who put this together for WotC) said the stream today starts at 9:30 PT. So there is you slot for the announcement today.


----------



## Prakriti (Jun 2, 2018)

According to the product page, this is an adventure for *levels 1-5.*

That's different.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Birmy said:


> For those who care about such things, there's a product page up now for a _Dragon Heist_-themed dice set (similar to what they did for _Tomb of Annihilation_). It comes with a hit point tracker and the standard array of dice, including an extra d20 (which, based on the photo, is huge for some reason).
> 
> http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/waterdeep-dragon-heist-dice




View attachment 98032

I love how they took feedback from the past set and included a second d20 for when you have advantage. And a hit point tracker.
Sadly, no tin from the looks of things.


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jun 2, 2018)

Since the level range is 1-5, I wonder what the chances are this book is actually the first of two adventures similar to the Tiamat books? It'd be neat if this is followed up by an Undermountain one.

Edit: Somehow missed this prediction already being made up-thread. Let's cross our fingers!

Not that I would be disappointed if not, because the Dragon Heist book itself sounds really fun.


----------



## TwoSix (Jun 2, 2018)

I virtually never purchase adventures, but this is looking pretty perfect for my next campaign, since I was thinking of doing something urban.  I'm not a FR fan, but I do have a soft spot for Waterdeep from playing Lords of Waterdeep so many times.


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jun 2, 2018)

Prakriti said:


> According to the product page, this is an adventure for *levels 1-5.*
> 
> That's different.




Mentioned it elsewhere, but it would be neat if this were part 1 in a series, much like the Tiamat books. That's my genie-wish anyway.

Book is proper big for a small level range still, though. Waterdeep must be quite well defined indeed. There was mention of replayability and seeing different parts of the city on each play-through. If it has value as a source-book as well as an adventure I hope they carry that forward into other adventure products.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

No announcement yet. And ya, possible it isn’t today. I think think the announcement happens this weekend. Maybe tomorrow since it’s only 4 Games so time slots are more open.


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

robus said:


> I really don't get the push for replayability? It's my understanding that most tables can't keep up with even the current release schedule, let alone want to play the same adventure twice?
> 
> This is definitely a different flavor of adventure which is nice, but I'm curious the see the details. I imagine it'll take some masterful DMing to keep the NPCs distinct and interesting.




With the level range being 1-5 it'd be a good one to potentially replay before running another adventure, like _Princes of the Apocalypse_ or _Tomb of Annihilation_ or even _Curse of Strahd_. And it'd be a good alternative to the starter set as a "newbie" adventure.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Okay, I'm awake and running on four hours of sleep and not enough coffee and am very cranky... Let's see if there's any actual news...


----------



## Jester David (Jun 2, 2018)

Patrick McGill said:


> Since the level range is 1-5, I wonder what the chances are this book is actually the first of two adventures similar to the Tiamat books? It'd be neat if this is followed up by an Undermountain one.
> 
> Edit: Somehow missed this prediction already being made up-thread. Let's cross our fingers!
> 
> Not that I would be disappointed if not, because the Dragon Heist book itself sounds really fun.



I had my doubts that they'd do two back-to-back adventures so close, but the low level range & larger pool of freelancers does make it seem more likely. And trying to do a Waterdeep _and _Undermountain adventure in a single book would be hard. But pairing them would be cool, while also allowing for two very different adventures. 



GarrettKP said:


> No announcement yet. And ya, possible it isn’t today. I think think the announcement happens this weekend. Maybe tomorrow since it’s only 4 Games so time slots are more open.



Those would be the ticketed events. People watching those would miss an announcement held elsewhere. And they actually overlap in time, so fewer gaps for an announcement. 
They might have a surprise at the end of the day, but I'd prepare myself for disappointment.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Schedule updated from the Twitter account:

SirensoftRealms RIGHT NOW!


Off The Table #1 - 11:30am PT


RivalsOfWaterdeep - 12:30pm PT


Off The Table #2 - 2:00pm PT


girlsgutsglory - 3:00pm PT


Off The Table #3 - 4:30pm PT


DarkandDicey - 5:30pm PT


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jun 2, 2018)

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">FYI for you <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/NoStoneUnturned?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#NoStoneUnturned</a> players who are coming to <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/SoMEDnD?src=hash&amp;ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">#SoMEDnD</a> on Sunday: One of the shirts has the ARG glyphs on the back! <a href="https://t.co/EicUsbobYw">pic.twitter.com/EicUsbobYw</a></p>&mdash; Emmett Furey #SoMEDnD (@emmettfurey) <a href="https://twitter.com/emmettfurey/status/1002849477936365568?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">June 2, 2018</a></blockquote>
<script async src="https://platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

These are apparently the clues uncovered from the No Stone Unturned ARG? Undermountain is right there on the bottom.


----------



## JohnnyZemo (Jun 2, 2018)

Jester David said:


> View attachment 98032
> 
> I love how they took feedback from the past set and included a second d20 for when you have advantage. And a hit point tracker.
> Sadly, no tin from the looks of things.




That's a strange picture. Check out the d10s. They're both numbered "00, 10, 20, 30..." whereas the actual set will presumably have one that's numbered "0, 1, 2, 3..."

And is one of the d20s actually significantly larger than the other, or is that some weird perspective trick? I'm confused.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

JohnnyZemo said:


> That's a strange picture. Check out the d10s. They're both numbered "00, 10, 20, 30..." whereas the actual set will presumably have one that's numbered "0, 1, 2, 3..."
> 
> And is one of the d20s actually significantly larger than the other, or is that some weird perspective trick? I'm confused.



The two d% seems to be an error, but the one-larger one-smaller is presumably because of Advantage/Disadvantage. I can't think of any situation off the top of my head where you'd need to keep track of which die is which out of 2d20 (since it's always "take the higher" or "take the lower"), but it's possible I'm forgetting something since I haven't finished my coffee and trying to follow a live stream of the season finale of a campaign I don't watch while a barely-moderated Twitch chat is going on...


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

"The book is equal parts adventure and "city-based adventure guide". " 

 I suspect  around half of the book will be taken up with the city based adventure guide aspect, which is part of the reason why it only goes to levels 1-5, the other part being 5 different seasons/villians.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jun 2, 2018)

Appearntly there is a part 2 to this. Which is Undermountain.


----------



## AmerginLiath (Jun 2, 2018)

robus said:


> I really don't get the push for replayability? It's my understanding that most tables can't keep up with even the current release schedule, let alone want to play the same adventure twice?
> 
> This is definitely a different flavor of adventure which is nice, but I'm curious the see the details. I imagine it'll take some masterful DMing to keep the NPCs distinct and interesting.




My guess is that, given how it would define the city and set up connections for the characters, allowing for replayability is largely a matter of letting the campaign remain based out of Waterdeep afterwards, whether playing whichever Undermountain adventure we all expect to see announced next or simply doing the campaign’s own thing.


----------



## Prakriti (Jun 2, 2018)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Appearntly there is a part 2 to this. Which is Undermountain.



Source?


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Appearntly there is a part 2 to this. Which is Undermountain.




 That makes sense, book one deals with Waterdeep, the local culture, surface and harbour adventures and resources, levels 1-5, and book two deals with Undermountain and naybe Skullport.

 You'll likely want SCAG, WH, and Undermountian for this book plus core and any player and monster resources that players or DM wants for this one.

 I hope W: DH has advice on using the races from the SCAG, VGTM, and MTOFs in Waterdeep.


----------



## gyor (Jun 2, 2018)

https://www.google.com/amp/s/ventur...heist-is-dungeons-dragons-next-storyline/amp/

 Some more details, makes me wonder if there will be some player stuff in this book, even if just backgrounds.


----------



## Von Ether (Jun 2, 2018)

Who is the main author on DH?


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

Von Ether said:


> Who is the main author on DH?




Chris Perkins with James Haeck and James Intracaso.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

Von Ether said:


> Who is the main author on DH?



"Wizards RPG Team"

I don't believe we'll see the actual credits until the book comes out or the credits page is released. But it's been announced that Matt Mercer, James Introcaso, and James Haeck all served as freelancers working on it.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jun 2, 2018)

It appears the Thanosy guy on the cover is Manshoon.


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 2, 2018)

For those wondering the cover seems to show the following villains:

Manshoon and the Zhentarim

Jarlaxle and Bregan D’aerthe

Xanathar and the Xanathar Guild

The Moonstar family and the Dark Army of the Night (Perkins has been making a big deal about Shar and her cult in DCA)


----------



## StarFyre (Jun 2, 2018)

Anyone know when gale force nine will be on the stream? Want to see their new miniatures.  They are scheduled but can't find when


----------



## Staffan (Jun 2, 2018)

oreofox said:


> Reminds me of Paizo with their obsession with the Inner Sea area of their world. They had about 4-5 APs set in Verisia alone. Though WotC focuses on a smaller portion, the Sword Coast. It gets annoying. There's more to Faerun than the Sword Coast.




You do realize that the Sword Coast is about a third the size of the continental United States, right? Basically, draw a line from Chicago to New Orleans, and everything east of that - that's about as big as the area from Luskan to the Cloud Peaks and west of Anauroch and the Sunset Mountains. Another comparison of roughly the same size would be Europe north of Spain/Italy, south of the Baltic Sea, and west of the eastern border of Poland.

Sure, there's more to the Realms than the Sword Coast, but the Sword Coast is *big*. It's also an area that's been surprisingly lightly covered before 5e, at least the parts south of Waterdeep (the region that used to be called the Western Heartlands) - basically the only source was the actual campaign setting and Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 2, 2018)

StarFyre said:


> Anyone know when gale force nine will be on the stream? Want to see their new miniatures. They are scheduled but can't find when




They're not on the schedule that I can find (no product announcements are scheduled and when I asked officially if they would be announcing any other products, the only response given was "Maybe ", which...I have thoughts about responding to a press inquiry that way that I'll keep to myself for now), and they did most of their tie-in promotion yesterday announcing new material for the MMO, mobile game, and the "feelies" boxed sets for the published adventures.


----------



## plisnithus8 (Jun 3, 2018)

MonsterEnvy said:


> It appears the Thanosy guy on the cover is Manshoon.




One of them.


----------



## StarFyre (Jun 3, 2018)

ya its strange. this is what the gf9-dnd site says:

http://www.gf9-dnd.com/Home/tabid/56/entryid/363/see-gf9-on-the-stream-of-many-eyes.aspx

they will be there. they were last year. i remember seeing a link after that someone posted to the time segment.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 3, 2018)

Normally, they also have WizKids there too since they have the board game license...


----------



## DragonBelow (Jun 3, 2018)

Levels 1-5? that must be a typo right?


----------



## gyor (Jun 3, 2018)

DragonBelow said:


> Levels 1-5? that must be a typo right?




 Nope. Its only part adventure, its also part city adventurers guide, Waterdeep Setting book and it has four different seasons of plential play to chooae from, each with its own main villian.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 3, 2018)

DragonBelow said:


> Levels 1-5? that must be a typo right?



No, that's what's listed on the official product page. Most likely, it's the first part of the adventure/sourcebook with a focus on city-based rules as well as an adventure that scales a lot (since it's not as combat-focused) and a second part that's yet-unannounced that was solicited to distributors under the codename "Catacombs" for a November 20 release that will focus on dungeon crawling and Undermountain. Similar to how the Rise of Tiamut adventure was split into two books.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

I keep checking the gf9 site as well for announcement on new products.  I got hocked on their limited edition minis, dm screens and spell cards.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 3, 2018)

Greg Benage said:


> Different strokes and all, but yeah, a bit of a let down for me from speculation about an Undermountain megadungeon or planar adventure path.



Catacomb will be UM. Besides, if it's not, there's always Ultimate Undermountain.



Patrick McGill said:


> Mentioned it elsewhere, but it would be neat if this were part 1 in a series, much like the Tiamat books. That's my genie-wish anyway.
> 
> Book is proper big for a small level range still, though. Waterdeep must be quite well defined indeed. There was mention of replayability and seeing different parts of the city on each play-through. If it has value as a source-book as well as an adventure I hope they carry that forward into other adventure products.




I suspect they are relying on the Guild Adepts to be putting out higher level adventures for Waterdeep add-ons. In fact, I think it can be pretty much assured that's what the Adepts will be releasing.



MonsterEnvy said:


> Appearntly there is a part 2 to this. Which is Undermountain.



 Catacombs... (as has been said from the start).


----------



## Irennan (Jun 3, 2018)

LordEntrails said:


> Catacombs... (as has been said from the start).




At this point, yeah, that's _painfully_ obvious.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

I mentioned this a few weeks ago when the two-part structure came into focus - perhaps this is how they will give us setting guides that aren't really setting guides in the future. Basically a setting guide disguised as an adventure with a lot of fluff, followed shortly thereafter by a full-blown adventure based on the first ( but still playable independently). Perhaps next year we'll see "Planescpe: Adventure in Sigil" (the hybrid setting and adventure) and "Planescape: The Great Modron March" as the full follow-up adventure?


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 3, 2018)

So...I watched that entire stream... I am glad that Wizards of the Coast put so much effort into it. I'm thrilled that thousands of people watched live and enjoyed it. I was not one of them. This was not a thing for me. Not everything needs to be a thing for me. I'm cool with that.

But I asked various representatives from Wizards of the Coast at various levels in various mediums - as press - if they were doing any product announcements during today's stream and the only response I got was a coy "Maybe *winky smile*". So I have officially wasted my entire day because WotC wouldn't do the simple courtesy of just telling me "No, we're not doing any product announcements today".


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Could there be something at the very end? There may not be, but there could be!


----------



## Jester David (Jun 3, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> No announcement yet. And ya, possible it isn’t today. I think think the announcement happens this weekend. Maybe tomorrow since it’s only 4 Games so time slots are more open.



Doesn't sound like any more news today. 

But here's the thing... we also haven't heard from Gale Force 9 or WizKids who tend to do a bunch of products tied to the storyline. No board game, no prepainted miniature set, no DM screen, no resin deluxe minis, etc. And the Neverwinter announcement is based on Ravenloft, which launches in June and is unrelated. 
That's a LOT of announcements. 

I really think they might be planning a second event or later reveal where they show off all the other stuff that's associated with the November release.


----------



## Xavian Starsider (Jun 3, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> So...I watched that entire stream... I am glad that Wizards of the Coast put so much effort into it. I'm thrilled that thousands of people watched live and enjoyed it. I was not one of them. This was not a thing for me. Not everything needs to be a thing for me. I'm cool with that.
> 
> But I asked various representatives from Wizards of the Coast at various levels in various mediums - as press - if they were doing any product announcements during today's stream and the only response I got was a coy "Maybe *winky smile*". So I have officially wasted my entire day because WotC wouldn't do the simple courtesy of just telling me "No, we're not doing any product announcements today".




WotC is not beholden to your schedule.  Your decision to watch the stream on the chance that there might have been a reveal, so you could know immediately, was yours.  You were not coerced.
 If you didn't care about the stream, there are alternate venues where you can get the news of a new product announcement (notably, the one we are on now). I have no sympathy for you.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 3, 2018)

Xavian Starsider said:


> WotC is not beholden to your schedule. Your decision to watch the stream on the chance that there might have been a reveal, so you could know immediately, was yours. You were not coerced.
> If you didn't care about the stream, there are alternate venues where you can get the news of a new product announcement (notably, the one we are on now). I have no sympathy for you.




Who do you think WROTE this column?


----------



## Xavian Starsider (Jun 3, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Who do you think WROTE this column?




Oh forgive me. I forgot you were the only person watching the stream capable of sharing the news 

I am sure the news might have taken at least five minutes more to appear had you not shared it.


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 3, 2018)

Xavian Starsider said:


> Oh forgive me. I forgot you were the only person watching the stream capable of sharing the news
> 
> I am sure the news might have taken at least five minutes more to appear had you not shared it.



Considering I'm the only news writer for EN World that was available today to cover this...no, it wouldn't have been up until Monday if I didn't cover it.


----------



## Xavian Starsider (Jun 3, 2018)

Abstruse said:


> Considering I'm the only news writer for EN World that was available today to cover this...no, it wouldn't have been up until Monday if I didn't cover it.




Okay fine. I concede your point. But there were thousands of us watching this stream for our own enjoyment. So it rubs me a little wrong to see you complaining that WotC was refusing to give you inside information and failed to deliver on something you hypothesized. 

WotC was very clear about what hour of what day the new book would be announced and made no further promises.  This entire event was set up to disseminate infirmation. Does being press make you believe you are entitled to more information sooner than the rest of us? Or course WotC teased you the way they did. You basically asked if the final day was worth warching. Were they supposed to say 'No? "


----------



## Gradine (Jun 3, 2018)

Is this the third book 5e book now with the Xanathar on the cover?


----------



## Abstruse (Jun 3, 2018)

Xavian Starsider said:


> Were they supposed to say 'No? "



Yes. They should have. That's pretty standard if you're doing product announcements to let the press know when those announcements are so they can properly cover them and allocate resources appropriately. So if it's a staff reporter, the news outlet isn't wasting that reporter's salary having them sit around doing nothing or, for freelancers, so they're not spending all day they could be working on paying work losing out on that work because if they don't have news to write about, they don't get paid. I promise you that none of the game companies at E3 are going to make companies sit around for eight hours saying "Maybe we'll have an announcement, maybe we won't, who knows? LOL" Even Devolver Digital only does that for an hour...


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Gradine said:


> Is this the third book 5e book now with the Xanathar on the cover?




I believe so, yes.


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 3, 2018)

Xavian Starsider said:


> Okay fine. I concede your point. But there were thousands of us watching this stream for our own enjoyment. So it rubs me a little wrong to see you complaining that WotC was refusing to give you inside information and failed to deliver on something you hypothesized.
> 
> WotC was very clear about what hour of what day the new book would be announced and made no further promises.  This entire event was set up to disseminate infirmation. Does being press make you believe you are entitled to more information sooner than the rest of us? Or course WotC teased you the way they did. You basically asked if the final day was worth warching. Were they supposed to say 'No? "




WotC also was clear that they told press before the stream about Waterdeep: Dragon Heist. So, yes, a member of the press *should* expect more information sooner than the rest of us because that’s exactly what they did just yesterday. The issue is probably that they didn’t consider EN World to be a real press venue, not that they didn’t want to tell the press before the fans.

Edit: Or just as Abstruse said, that is standard procedure for press.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

Anyone watching that is also active on enworld would have posted the info no matter who was "covering" it for enworld.  I watched off and on today and would have posted it if WoTC stated something and no one had mentioned I think yet on the thread...no one would have waited until Monday.

i wasn't a fan of many of the games today as the music interludes had me turn off the volume or turn the channel.


----------



## kenmarable (Jun 3, 2018)

Xavian Starsider said:


> Oh forgive me. I forgot you were the only person watching the stream capable of sharing the news
> 
> I am sure the news might have taken at least five minutes more to appear had you not shared it.




Wow, lay that sarcasm on a little thicker, eh?


----------



## Gradine (Jun 3, 2018)

vecna00 said:


> I believe so, yes.




“Ha! Suck on that, Acererak! Stupid Demilich!” - The Xanathar, presumably.


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Just announced that they will announce more tomorrow. Cool.


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Or right now! Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage!


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Levels 6-20!


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

So... to get away from the current route of the conversation and back on track with the original subject...

D&D Beyond just released a glut of short videos with Mearls and Crawford concerning some of the big players of the adventure - Manshoon, Xanathar, Jarlaxle, the Cassalanters, Durnan, and Mirt. So it appears our big four villains are the first four, while the players will presumably find allies in the last two. Of definite note in the Durnan article is Crawford saying that Durnan's tavern The Yawning Portal is the starting point (as we already knew), but that the adventurers would later likely be drawn back to it to continue their adventure. Which means we'll be seeing some Undermountain in this book, or hinting that it will be the subject of the next adventure (as has been surmised here and elsewhere).

EDIT - lol, confirmed while I'm typing it!


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

View attachment 98047


----------



## GarrettKP (Jun 3, 2018)

DND Beyond video immediately after stream announced the new book! Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage!


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

And this was just announced!  Levels 6-20

View attachment 98049


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

GarrettKP said:


> DND Beyond video immediately after stream announced the new book! Waterdeep: Dungeon of the Mad Mage!




I'm not seeing it - I was on their YouTube channel watching the other videos I mentioned in my previous post, but I'm not seeing it there. Did someone jump the gun, and they immediately redact it I wonder?


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> I'm not seeing it - I was on their YouTube channel watching the other videos I mentioned in my previous post, but I'm not seeing it there. Did someone jump the gun, and they immediately redact it I wonder?




It was on the stream. Like a post-credits scene almost.


----------



## Ancalagon (Jun 3, 2018)

I'm watching it now and then one of them said "two books" (I missed the start lol) and I rushed here... but well of course someone else would beat me to the punch


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

vecna00 said:


> It was on the stream. Like a post-credits scene almost.




And the D&D Beyond video is up now:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wbVRQIOuI8s


----------



## Mouseferatu (Jun 3, 2018)

Xavian Starsider said:


> WotC was very clear about what hour of what day the new book would be announced and made no further promises.  This entire event was set up to disseminate infirmation. Does being press make you believe you are entitled to more information sooner than the rest of us? Or course WotC teased you the way they did. You basically asked if the final day was worth warching. Were they supposed to say 'No? "




You know, given that [MENTION=6669048]Abstruse[/MENTION] busts his ass for this site--hunting down stories, collating information, and writing it all up every week, plus trying to stay on top of big stories like this one--_and_ given that WotC won't allow ENWorld access to advance info due to leaks that weren't ENWorld's fault, while still giving advanced access to other sites that _have_ leaked info early--I think you can back the hell off and just say "Thank you for trying, I'm sorry your time was wasted."


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

Just think of the fun with usable digital maps for undermountain!  So much better than the fold out maps you could never use on the table.


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

EthanSental said:


> Just think of the fun with usable digital maps for undermountain!  So much better than the fold out maps you could never use on the table.




Duuuuude....


----------



## lordstimpy (Jun 3, 2018)

I wonder if they are making a second $450 set?


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 3, 2018)

Anyone know if today's streams are posted somewhere yet? Or if there is a summary of things from today?


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

I created the first level using the 3D program, tabletop connect that was bought out by fantasy ground.  I'm guessing then that fg will have the maps for each level and room so I'm in just for this one and the heist one.  If they make a box for undermountain for 450, I'll grab it too like I did for the heist one.


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

LordEntrails said:


> Anyone know if today's streams are posted somewhere yet? Or if there is a summary of things from today?




Just the D&D beyond video for Dungeon of the Mad Mage and the other Beyond videos they've been running all day.


----------



## gyor (Jun 3, 2018)

https://youtu.be/wbVRQIOuI8s[video=youtube_share;wbVRQIOuI8s]https://youtu.be/wbVRQIOuI8s[/video]


----------



## gyor (Jun 3, 2018)

I want to know how much interaction these books have, can you say teleport back to the surface to manage your inn between devling levels for example?


----------



## Greg Benage (Jun 3, 2018)

Greg Benage said:


> Different strokes and all, but yeah, a bit of a let down for me from speculation about an Undermountain megadungeon or planar adventure path.




Woohoo! Now I'm excited.


----------



## AmerginLiath (Jun 3, 2018)

gyor said:


> I want to know how much interaction these books have, can you say teleport back to the surface to manage your inn between devling levels for example?




If so, it makes for the easiest answer of how to integrate new characters into the campaign as time goes on.

“You all meet up in a tavern...”


----------



## silentdante (Jun 3, 2018)

23 levels of undermountain (according to chris perkins tweet: A D&D campaign for levels 1-20. Waterdeep, Skullport, and twenty-three levels of Undermountain, each level more wild than the last. Halaster is waiting for you. ),sounds fun to me, though surprised they go city building for 5 levels and then a good ol dungeon romp for 15, i feel like you could do 1-10 in the city alone or more. not that you couldnt of course in your own game... either way i like both books, wonder what tomorrow will bring product-wise.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

gyor said:


> I want to know how much interaction these books have, can you say teleport back to the surface to manage your inn between devling levels for example?




I have to believe that since we'll just have gotten a huge book on everything about Waterdeep that they will expect people to head back up to the city from time to time for downtime activities (which in itself will be expanded upon in that book). So I'm pretty sure that there will be a good amount of (optional) integration with _Dragon Heist_ material...


----------



## Duo Maxwell (Jun 3, 2018)

First an urban adventure and now an update to the mega-dungeon beneath it?  I can't wait to run this for my friends!


----------



## StarFyre (Jun 3, 2018)

there were official maps for undermountain back in 2e IIRC.  they were part of the FR atlas cdrom product.

i wonder if they will use those same official maps...

for those not familiar, this is level 1 of undermountain:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/7b/b5/be/7bb5be122d3f33d032619085113e3e16.gif

here is level 2:

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/52/a9/d7/52a9d7d955cd3f88d475f59c0580cad2.jpg

etc

Regards,

Sanjay


----------



## Duo Maxwell (Jun 3, 2018)

From the YouTube clip, it sounds like this is the best version of Undermountain we're getting: NPCs with a lot depth, motivations for you to be there, each level being completely distinct from one another and more.  This is a great year for Waterdeep/Undermountain fans.


----------



## mach1.9pants (Jun 3, 2018)

Dungeon of the Mad Mage, levels 6-20 plus a very nice base in Waterdeep - very happy. I'll be getting my old City System maps and encounter tables out!


----------



## Yaarel (Jun 3, 2018)

I appreciate the urban setting for the adventure, and am curious about how 5e handles it.


----------



## Yaarel (Jun 3, 2018)

If Jarlaxe makes a cameo appearance, I hope his associate Kimmuriel Oblodra (the psion) does too!


----------



## Kurotowa (Jun 3, 2018)

Yaarel said:


> If Jarlaxe makes a cameo appearance, I hope his associate Kimmuriel Oblodra (the psion) does too!




Cameo? He's on the cover! From the D&D Beyond videos it looks like he's one of the four choices for the Dragon Heist antagonist. It's him, a Manshoon clone, Xanathar, or a noble house (the Cassalanters) with infernal ties.


----------



## guachi (Jun 3, 2018)

Pass.

Unless the level 1-5 adventure is generic enough to easily put somewhere else.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 3, 2018)

gyor said:


> I want to know how much interaction these books have, can you say teleport back to the surface to manage your inn between devling levels for example?



Very. The discussion in the stream, expecially at the very end of todays, it that you are expected to take your level 5 characters from DH and drop them into DotMM.

Undermountain is known for numerous portals, plus a pair of large vertical shafts that allow travel between the levels (though they are typically guarded, so you have to be on somebodies good side). 



Demetrios1453 said:


> I have to believe that since we'll just have gotten a huge book on everything about Waterdeep that they will expect people to head back up to the city from time to time for downtime activities (which in itself will be expanded upon in that book). So I'm pretty sure that there will be a good amount of (optional) integration with _Dragon Heist_ material...




Agreed.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

Just thinking - now that we have an official dungeon going to level 20, will we finally see some high-level creatures specific to the Forgotten Realms setting like sharn or phaerimm?


----------



## Paul Farquhar (Jun 3, 2018)

guachi said:


> Pass.
> 
> Unless the level 1-5 adventure is generic enough to easily put somewhere else.




Waterdeep is an extremely generic D&D city. That is what makes it so dull.

But I'm sure this adventure will be entirely portable to any standard world.


----------



## Yaarel (Jun 3, 2018)

guachi said:


> Pass.
> 
> Unless the level 1-5 adventure is generic enough to easily put somewhere else.




I am assuming, it will be easy to plug this city into my setting.

The city can be as distinctive as possible. As long as it avoids heavy-handed cosmology assumptions, it can go into any medieval-esque ... renaissance-esque setting.


----------



## Leatherhead (Jun 3, 2018)

Tormyr said:


> I haven't had a chance to check. Is the paladin a gnome?




Not likely, although his armor does look a bit like a construct. So possibly?


----------



## HawaiiSteveO (Jun 3, 2018)

Any mention if either product is going to have poster map (similar to CoS)?


----------



## lordstimpy (Jun 3, 2018)

I think Perkins said Dragon Heist roundtables. Giant poster map of Waterdeep in the announcement roundtable.


----------



## Aldarc (Jun 3, 2018)

Nilonym said:


> Not me. From the overall tone of this thread, not many.



But it is for me, and I am only speaking for myself. 



werecorpse said:


> What would you prefer?



Not Waterdeep. Not the Sword Coast. Not Forgotten Realms. 



dave2008 said:


> If I understand correctly the adventure for levels 1-5 and it is 256 pages.  They also mentioned new urban environment rules.  It seems to me this is as much, if not more, and urban adventure book with a starter adventure thrown in than a proper adventure path.  Now that may not be your thing, but it seem to be to a potentially really useful supplement.  I know I struggle to handle urabn environments well, and if this can help, I will pick it up regardless of the adventure.



Ptolus may not be 5e, but it is probably one of the better D&D books for providing a "guide" for urban adventures. If previous adventures are any precedent, I just don't see much chance of me being inspired by anything from this book.


----------



## dave2008 (Jun 3, 2018)

Aldarc said:


> If previous adventures are any precedent, I just don't see much chance of me being inspired by anything from this book.




I usually find something useful or interesting in each of the 5e adventures, but I don't believe I have been inspired by any adventure, from any publisher.


----------



## Yaarel (Jun 3, 2018)

dave2008 said:


> I usually find something useful or interesting in each of the 5e adventures, but I don't believe I have been inspired by any adventure, from any publisher.




I extend this to any published adventure. One size can only fit some.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

I find it interesting that it seems for every 1 that posts various 5e products aren't for them, apparently 10 people buy it anyway since the sales for the products are top sellers.  Enough previous gamers and many new gamers are having fun with what they are creating.  Perkins has been doing great as the story line creator in my book and watching him on Lore You Should Know shows he cares about the material.  Props Chris!


----------



## ad_hoc (Jun 3, 2018)

EthanSental said:


> I find it interesting that it seems for every 1 that posts various 5e products aren't for them, apparently 10 people buy it anyway since the sales for the products are top sellers.  Enough previous gamers and many new gamers are having fun with what they are creating.  Perkins has been doing great as the story line creator in my book and watching him on Lore You Should Know shows he cares about the material.  Props Chris!




This site (or any forum) does not represent the D&D player base.


----------



## Ancalagon (Jun 3, 2018)

... has anyone noticed that Jarlaxle looks like Perkins?


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

HawaiiSteveO said:


> Any mention if either product is going to have poster map (similar to CoS)?




The first book will have a poster map of Waterdeep.

The second book is apparently going to have a separate poster map pack of the various levels of Undermountain for purchase:

http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/waterdeep-dungeon-mad-mage-map-pack

(I wonder if the map pack is our legendary "fourth product" for the year that has been previously hinted at. If we don't hear anything else announced today, I'm assuming that this is likely the case...)


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

I hope GF9 and wizkids announce some cool new stuff today.  Maybe the wizkids big ship has ties to Skullport or something.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 3, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> The first book will have a poster map of Waterdeep.
> 
> The second book is apparently going to have a separate poster map pack of the various levels of Undermountain for purchase:
> 
> ...



Thanks for the link.
Fourth product was the art book they showed on Friday. Or at least that's my assumption...


----------



## vecna00 (Jun 3, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> Just thinking - now that we have an official dungeon going to level 20, will we finally see some high-level creatures specific to the Forgotten Realms setting like sharn or phaerimm?




I hope so, especially phaerimm!


----------



## Aldarc (Jun 3, 2018)

EthanSental said:


> I find it interesting that it seems for every 1 that posts various 5e products aren't for them, apparently 10 people buy it anyway since the sales for the products are top sellers.  Enough previous gamers and many new gamers are having fun with what they are creating.  Perkins has been doing great as the story line creator in my book and watching him on Lore You Should Know shows he cares about the material.  Props Chris!



I apologize that I had the audacity to voice either disinterest or displeasure at this product.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

Aldarc said:


> I apologize that I had the audacity to voice either disinterest or displeasure at this product.




None needed but thanks!

also, the musical interludes are not my cup of tea (horrible in my opinion - like a group of friends playing guitar hero on the weekend), made worse by them being used over and over.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 3, 2018)

Nothing posted on gf9 or wizkids sites yet.  

Whoever posts their announcement (if there is one), many thanks as I have to get to work shortly.


----------



## raviv (Jun 3, 2018)

gf9 posted a few photos on their Facebook page. An owlbear, a team of adventurers, and a boardgame called Vault of Dragons.


----------



## Dyson Logos (Jun 3, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> (I wonder if the map pack is our legendary "fourth product" for the year that has been previously hinted at. If we don't hear anything else announced today, I'm assuming that this is likely the case...)




Nah, I'm willing to bet there's still another book coming.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 3, 2018)

Dyson Logos said:


> Nah, I'm willing to bet there's still another book coming.



I do hope so. There are rumors over on Reddit that Cubicle 7 may still have something up their sleeve...


----------



## Monayuris (Jun 3, 2018)

I have zero interest in Dragon Heist, but Dungeon of the Mad Mage seems interesting. I'm a huge fan of mega dungeons. 

I only viewed the D&D Beyond promo clip and it looks like they may actually pull off a proper mega dungeon. The key is how much meta-plot and story lines do they put into it. Its awesome if there is interesting factions and monsters that have their own agendas, quests and stories, but a mega dungeon only works if the players are in the drivers seat. Most of the previous WoTC modules I've had experience with seem to have the players be in the back seat of some plot or story line that they have to complete. 

That doesn't work in a mega dungeon. In this kind of environment, the players should have the ability to descend to any level of the dungeon they want (assuming they find the way). They should be able to develop any kind of relationship with the factions in the dungeon that make sense to them. They should be able to make their own choices and interact with the dungeon on their own terms.

I also don't think the default XP system works well for mega dungeon play. XP for killing monsters tends to make these dungeons just feel like a grind: open door, fight monsters, open next door, fight monsters, repeat... There really needs to be an alternate reward system for these environments. XP systems that reward treasure acquisition are usually better suited. Also story based leveling doesn't work in mega dungeons. Some DM's may think they can just level their players when they are ready to go to the next level of the dungeon. That tends to be a bad idea because it takes the choice away from the players on whether to go down or not.

Mega dungeon play is about the freedom to make your own choices. If they can set up Dungeon of the Mad Mage to keep choice and decisions in the hands of the players (player agency), this could be an awesome product. 

I'm actually optimistic about it... I especially liked that they seem to have added corridors to nowhere, so DM's can expand the dungeon with their own ideas. This is a good sign in my book.


----------



## Tales and Chronicles (Jun 3, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> I do hope so. There are rumors over on Reddit that Cubicle 7 may still have something up their sleeve...




I've padded every sharp edges in my house in case Cubicle 7 announces the release of Moria for AiME, I faint easily. I'm not sure I'll buy the Undermountain AP because mega dungeons arent my thing, but Moria might be the exception.


----------



## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jun 4, 2018)

plisnithus8 said:


> It looks like the heist will be to steal the Infinity Gauntlet.




That... sounds like a lot of fun, actually.


----------



## EthanSental (Jun 4, 2018)

raviv said:


> gf9 posted a few photos on their Facebook page. An owlbear, a team of adventurers, and a boardgame called Vault of Dragons.




Also have monster and treasure cards as well it seems!


----------



## StarFyre (Jun 4, 2018)

the owlbear was in the ads for that army painter D&D monster paint set (it says it comes with a free miniature). i assumed it would be a GF9 figure and maybe it is this owlbear.  was hoping to see more impressive stuff.  like more monsters


----------



## gyor (Jun 4, 2018)

I hope they rebuild the Plinth in Waterdeep, bigger and better then ever in Waterdeep. The Plinth was a Wizards Tower converted to a Temple for all the Gods, it got destroyed in 4e, a an example of destroying cool stuff needlessly, but it could be rebuilt by now.


----------



## Demetrios1453 (Jun 4, 2018)

gyor said:


> I hope they rebuild the Plinth in Waterdeep, bigger and better then ever in Waterdeep. The Plinth was a Wizards Tower converted to a Temple for all the Gods, it got destroyed in 4e, a an example of destroying cool stuff needlessly, but it could be rebuilt by now.



Heh, "Destroying cool stuff needlessly" could have been the by-line for 4e as a whole...


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion (Jun 4, 2018)

vincegetorix said:


> I've padded every sharp edges in my house in case Cubicle 7 announces the release of Moria for AiME, I faint easily. I'm not sure I'll buy the Undermountain AP because mega dungeons arent my thing, but Moria might be the exception.




C7 announced the Moria deluxe boxed set months ago, though. We just do not have a release date or price yet.

Here is the thread about it from this site:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Set-for-Adventures-in-Middle-Earth-announced


----------



## gyor (Jun 4, 2018)

[video=youtube_share;vOz40OQU8Ik]https://youtu.be/vOz40OQU8Ik[/video]
https://youtu.be/vOz40OQU8Ik


----------



## gyor (Jun 4, 2018)

Demetrios1453 said:


> Heh, "Destroying cool stuff needlessly" could have been the by-line for 4e as a whole...




 They also created some cool stuff.  I like the SCAGs approach where they brought back cool stuff from previous edition,  but didn't just destroy all the cool stuff from 4e,  it was a balanced approach that made regions like the Old Empires Region more complex and interesting because you have renewed old Empires like Mulhorand,  Unther,  Chessenta that are rebuilding and not stagnet like they largely we're in 3e,  but you also have what remains of the Dragonborn nation of Tymanther,  High Imaskar in the Celestial Nadir,  Deep Imaskar in the Underdark, Genasi Akanul,  Thayan agents spying on everyone,  Al Qadari the Elf Desert city,  ect...


----------



## Tales and Chronicles (Jun 4, 2018)

Enevhar Aldarion said:


> C7 announced the Moria deluxe boxed set months ago, though. We just do not have a release date or price yet.
> 
> Here is the thread about it from this site:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/showth...-Set-for-Adventures-in-Middle-Earth-announced




I know it was announced, I'm waiting for the release date. (price doesnt really matters for this one, I'd sell my soul to buy it)


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 4, 2018)

gyor said:


> I hope they rebuild the Plinth in Waterdeep, bigger and better then ever in Waterdeep. The Plinth was a Wizards Tower converted to a Temple for all the Gods, it got destroyed in 4e, a an example of destroying cool stuff needlessly, but it could be rebuilt by now.




I think they are ignoring/ret-conning most of what happened in 4E. After all, Halaster is now alive and Durnan is back to being the original (and apparently immortal) Durnan and not a great/grandson.


----------



## Lord_Blacksteel (Jun 4, 2018)

robus said:


> I really don't get the push for replayability? It's my understanding that most tables can't keep up with even the current release schedule, let alone want to play the same adventure twice?
> 
> This is definitely a different flavor of adventure which is nice, but I'm curious the see the details. I imagine it'll take some masterful DMing to keep the NPCs distinct and interesting.




I'm with you on this - "replayability" usually means wait a few years and play it with a different group. I suspect in this case it's more about providing options for the DM to tweak it to their personal preferences while still providing stats and guidance. 

There is also the thought that this is a starting adventure akin to Lost Mines and providing multiple paths actually does increase replayability for that kind of situation. A mix of new and old players could still play through this adventure if you choose option "B" instead of the "A" that some of them had played through before.  It's an interesting approach.


----------



## gyor (Jun 4, 2018)

LordEntrails said:


> I think they are ignoring/ret-conning most of what happened in 4E. After all, Halaster is now alive and Durnan is back to being the original (and apparently immortal) Durnan and not a great/grandson.




 I wouldn't call that a retcon, because they aren't ignoring the past, they merely adding events that make it more simular to how things used to be.


----------



## gyor (Jun 5, 2018)

"Dyson Logos

 [MENTION=31728]Dyson[/MENTION]Logos

·

21h

Remember how I "leveled up" earlier this weekend? This is why. I drew 24 maps for Waterdeep - Dragon Heist. Some of the very best maps I've ever drawn. I'm ridiculously proud of the work that's in this adventure, and crazy-nervous about the fan reaction from the change in style. "

 At least 24 maps in WH.


----------



## Enevhar Aldarion (Jun 5, 2018)

gyor said:


> At least 24 maps in WH.




People need to stop putting the : in when they abbreviate the name of the book.   lol


----------



## Monayuris (Jun 5, 2018)

gyor said:


> "Dyson Logos
> [MENTION=31728]Dyson[/MENTION]Logos
> 
> ·
> ...




Hmm... I may have changed my mind about this one.

I think Dyson Logos is one of the best dungeon cartographers out there.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 5, 2018)

gyor said:


> I wouldn't call that a retcon, because they aren't ignoring the past, they merely adding events that make it more simular to how things used to be.




I won't argue semantics, but previous editions had the YPI run by descendants of Durnan. Now, it's suddenly the original Durnan, so... call it what you will.

But, we won't really know for sure until November.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jun 5, 2018)

gyor said:


> "Dyson Logos
> [MENTION=31728]Dyson[/MENTION]Logos
> 
> ·
> ...



Could you provide the link for this? Thx


----------



## gyor (Jun 5, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> Could you provide the link for this? Thx




https://mobile.twitter.com/DysonLogos?ref_src=twsrc^google|twcamp^serp|twgr^author


----------



## gyor (Jun 5, 2018)

LordEntrails said:


> I won't argue semantics, but previous editions had the YPI run by descendants of Durnan. Now, it's suddenly the original Durnan, so... call it what you will.
> 
> But, we won't really know for sure until November.




 He bought the descendants out. It'd be funny if they used that money to open up a rival tavern.


----------



## gyor (Jun 12, 2018)

LordEntrails said:


> I won't argue semantics, but previous editions had the YPI run by descendants of Durnan. Now, it's suddenly the original Durnan, so... call it what you will.
> 
> But, we won't really know for sure until November.




 In ToYP its reveal that the Original Durnan returned and bought the Tavern from his descendant. He's immortal it seems, Undeemountain twisted him some how.


----------



## LordEntrails (Jun 13, 2018)

gyor said:


> In ToYP its reveal that the Original Durnan returned and bought the Tavern from his descendant. He's immortal it seems, Undeemountain twisted him some how.



Ah, didn't buy ToYP. I wasn't interested in it.


----------



## StarFyre (Jun 14, 2018)

for GF9, nothing major but here are the paint sets, with the free gf9 mini included:

minsc in the hero set, owlbear in the monsters set

https://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13739

also, here is the set of 5 adventurers from the celebrity game: https://www.flamesofwar.com/gf9online_store.aspx?CategoryID=13389

scroll down to force grey

regards,

Sanjay


----------

