# Baldur's Gate Countdown Ends... Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition for Summer 2012



## Morrus (Mar 15, 2012)

*Baldur's Gate Countdown Ends... Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition for Summer 2012*

As you may know, the official *Baldur's Gate* website was revived a couple of months back.

The last couple of days it has had a countdown timer on it. Which ran out... well, shortly before I wrote this news post.

However, the website immediately crashed. It's apparently an announcement of a *Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition* for Summer 2012 (thanks to Dordledum below).

Trent Oster on Twitter: "We're happy to announce the Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition. Our servers are much less happy... Baldur's Gate Enhanced Edition is going to have new content for the game you love, made by some of the original team members."

You can keep trying it here - or you can be nice and not keep trying it. I imagine its being hammered by a lot of people hitting "refresh" right now, which won't help their efforts to get it back up again.

According to Joystiq: "Beamdog reps tell us that the team at Overhaul is adding "new, original content" to the original game to make up the Enhanced Edition. "This is the Enhanced Edition, it's not a repackage. We have the original source code and are doing a significant update," a rep said. He also confirmed that no platforms have been announced just yet."

For those wondering what _Baldur's Gate_ is, and why we should care:

_Baldur's Gate_ is a role-playing video game developed by BioWare and released in 1998 by Interplay Entertainment. The game takes place in the Forgotten Realms, a high fantasy campaign setting, using modified _Advanced Dungeons & Dragons (AD&D) 2nd edition_ rules. The game received critical praise, and was credited (along with Diablo) with revitalizing the CRPG genre.

It was very, very good.






​


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## Dordledum (Mar 15, 2012)

crosspost on facebook from twitter: "Atari Reveals Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition for Summer 2012". Regardless of the website being down, that's apparently the announcement. 

And damn that's a good announcement!


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## Brix (Mar 15, 2012)

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-h6lbI2qh3O8/T2JA-QOR3JI/AAAAAAAAAjs/8Mid4biOeSI/s1600/sux.jpg

What is a "Enhanced Edition"?


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## JonArkanix (Mar 15, 2012)

http://us2.campaign-archive1.com/?u=3b6c0e6ef0c1deb880f420476&id=6ae2f577cd

w00t!


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## rogueattorney (Mar 15, 2012)

Any idea what console/format?  The DS and/or 3DS would be a super-win!!!  (And something I said they should do ever since they settled the Atari/WotC lawsuit.)


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 15, 2012)

No, no, no.  PC or gtfo.


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## Ramaster (Mar 15, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> No, no, no. PC or gtfo.




Haters gonna Hate.

I, for once, would like to see the game as multi-plataform title. That way, more people will be able to enjoy this masterpiece


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## JonArkanix (Mar 15, 2012)

Well, there should be a PC release ... they did release their MDK2HD for PC after all.


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 15, 2012)

Heh, I don't care how many platforms it hits as long as PC is one of them.


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## messy (Mar 15, 2012)

i just had a nerdgasm.


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## bondetamp (Mar 15, 2012)

This is really quite fitting as I've just gone back to school to try to finish the education that Baldur's Gate and Diablo II kept me from finishing last time.


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## Tortoise (Mar 15, 2012)

I definitely welcome this. It just made my must buy list.


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## Oryan77 (Mar 15, 2012)

I knew Uriah Hatchus, the Fighter/Wizard/Thief was not finished making his mark on Faerun!

This is good news. I'm a little unclear how exactly it is enhanced. Are they saying that it is the original game, but the new content consists of new side quests and maybe equipment? Are the graphics going to be updated? Hmm, I wonder.

It seems like it was yesterday when I began rolling for stats until I finally got 4 18's. Then when I found my first ability score boosting magical tome, I figured out a way to cheat the system by saving/importing the same PC to duplicate the books and raise the remaining stats to 18's. I don't normally cheat, but I was proud of myself for figuring that out and it was a sign that Uriah was destined to have all 18's.


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## Dordledum (Mar 15, 2012)

for completeness sake:

Announcing Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition™
March 15, 2012
Atari, Wizards of the Coast, and Overhaul Games are pleased to announce work has begun on the Enhanced Edition of Baldur’s Gate and Baldur’s Gate II.


Since its initial release in 1998, Baldur’s Gate has entertained millions of fans around the globe, and has received countless awards. This classic saga of mystery, intrigue, and adventure has set the standard for Dungeons & Dragons® computer roleplaying games ever since.

RE-FORGED BY OVERHAUL GAMES
Overhaul Games has assembled a talented team of artists, programmers and designers to enhance this timeless classic. To remain true to the spirit of the game, the team includes original Baldur’s Gate developers.

RELIVE THE MOST EPIC STORY EVER TOLD
Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition™ and Baldur’s Gate II: Enhanced Edition™ will feature a re-forged version of the Infinity Engine with a variety of modern improvements.

THE GREATEST ROLEPLAYING GAME OF ALL TIME, ENHANCED
For all information regarding Baldur’s Gate: Enhanced Edition™ visit Baldur's Gate, for press inquiries contact baldursgate@beamdog.com.


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## Tilenas (Mar 15, 2012)

Morrus said:


> According to Joystiq: Enhanced Edition, it's not a repackage. We have the original source code and are doing a significant update," a rep said.




Considering the prevalent work ethic in today's CRPG industry, I assume a significant portion of said update will be bugs.


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## CAFRedblade (Mar 15, 2012)

*Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition*

I am so getting this updated version of the classic.  I wonder if it'll be able to read my old save files...

Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition Announced, Server Explodes [Update]

Wonder how long until Planescape:Torment gets this treatement...  

WHOOT


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## possum (Mar 15, 2012)

But I just got the reissue...

Just kidding, this is awesome news.  Though it may lead to the funny phenomenom of getting the same game for two consecutive holidays...

EDIT: I do wonder about the status of the expansion packs, however.


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## JonArkanix (Mar 16, 2012)

Baldur's Gate includes Tales of the Sword Coast and Baldur's Gate 2 includes Throne of Bhaal ... straight off Trent Oster twitter feed.


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## GregoryOatmeal (Mar 16, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> No, no, no.  PC or gtfo.



I wish people were a little more open-minded about consoles. I used to be a PC-only kind of guy with all the Quake mods and Deus Ex and all that jazz. Back then the attitude was consoles couldn't have deep games or console gamers didn't want them or something. Consoles don't suck anymore (although access to the PC mods would be awesome!). The games have gotten remarkably deep on consoles. But since they're aiming for a primarily PC-base and a hardcore market it's very hard to imagine the new PC game would be compromised in order to make it adaptable to the console.

Although I only played a couple hours of BG I can't imagine why it wouldn't fly on a controller. The direction pad could be set to 8 spells or items and R1/L1 could each open eight more (like in NWN). You could manually select targets or use keys to cycle through them. The FO3 interface on Xbox is just as elegant, powerful, and utilitarian as the FO1 interface on PC - you can simply do more things faster and the interface isn't dumbed down or simplified. So I think the assumption that multi-platform releases detract from computer games is faulty (with the obvious exception of Starcraft and a few others).

As a computing professional sitting at a desk for more hours every week and managing game DRM/settings isn't relaxing anymore. PC-only is a deal-breaker. I'm hoping System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, Torment, and all the other classics get the same treatment.


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## GregoryOatmeal (Mar 16, 2012)

Does that mean the game's going to stay in 2E? That's really cool in a retro-way.

*Update: Just saw the twitter. Indeed it still is.*_<s>#</s>*bgee* is 2nd Edition D&D.  Our first rule is don't break the fun.  Part of the appeal of BG was the depth of the rules system_


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## KesselZero (Mar 16, 2012)

I never played the original. This sounds pretty awesome. But I have to mooch around hoping for a Mac version, as a non-Windows, non-console owning human person.


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## DaveMage (Mar 16, 2012)

GregoryOatmeal said:


> Does that mean the game's going to stay in 2E? That's really cool in a retro-way.
> 
> *Update: Just saw the twitter. Indeed it still is.*_<s>#</s>*bgee* is 2nd Edition D&D.  Our first rule is don't break the fun.  Part of the appeal of BG was the depth of the rules system_




Heh.  I'll have to refresh myself on how the hell to play.


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## Shemeska (Mar 16, 2012)

GregoryOatmeal said:


> Does that mean the game's going to stay in 2E? That's really cool in a retro-way.
> 
> *Update: Just saw the twitter. Indeed it still is.*_<s>#</s>*bgee* is 2nd Edition D&D.  Our first rule is don't break the fun.  Part of the appeal of BG was the depth of the rules system_




I'm shocked and thrilled that they didn't try to make it into another edition. Awesome!


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## Deuce Traveler (Mar 16, 2012)

Must not squeal like a little girl.... must not squeal like a little girl... oh hell, who am I kidding?

Squeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeweeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeewooooooohooooooooooooo!


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## iwarrior-poet (Mar 16, 2012)

*Oh please, Oh please!*

Let them come out with a Mac version! I stopped being a PC Dolt three years ago!!!


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## froth (Mar 16, 2012)

killer that they arent going to try and make it 5e, thank god


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## 3catcircus (Mar 16, 2012)

On the face of it, this seems a money grab, plain and simple.  If  they are merely adding new content it had better be a significant upgrade or it won't be worth my $.

Why bother with this when they could've created a whole new game instead?


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## Dannager (Mar 16, 2012)

3catcircus said:


> On the face of it, this seems a money grab, plain and simple.  If  they are merely adding new content it had better be a significant upgrade or it won't be worth my $.
> 
> Why bother with this when they could've created a whole new game instead?




Because if you buy the enhanced editions, you'll be supporting the narrative that a Baldur's Gate 3 would be a worthwhile project to fund. Trent Oster stated today that he wants to see a Baldur's Gate 3, and that the Enhanced Editions are part of the "master plan".

It's not just new content, though. The graphics will receive an overhaul, the UI will be upgraded, etc. I think you can expect some new content, but for me the real pull is going to be a version of the game that is designed from the ground up to run at 1920x1080.


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## Meatboy (Mar 16, 2012)

Wonderful! I'll be able to finish my current play through by the time this comes out.


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## Kzach (Mar 16, 2012)

As much as I loved BG and BG2, my gaming tastes have evolved. Micro-managing a party in and out of combat and the isometric nature of the game would just drive me bonkers these days.

Now if it was an entire remake that brought it into the modern age of gaming, THEN I'd be excited.


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## Deuce Traveler (Mar 16, 2012)

Kzach said:


> As much as I loved BG and BG2, my gaming tastes have evolved. Micro-managing a party in and out of combat and the isometric nature of the game would just drive me bonkers these days.
> 
> Now if it was an entire remake that brought it into the modern age of gaming, THEN I'd be excited.




<Pats Kzach's shoulder in a comrade-like manner> Don't you worry yourself, sir.  I will be willing to make the sacrifice, purchase this here item, and micro-manage the party enough for the both of us a few times over.  Gog.com has Planescape: Torment with links to restored content fan mods.


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## MortalPlague (Mar 16, 2012)

GregoryOatmeal said:


> I wish people were a little more open-minded about consoles. I used to be a PC-only kind of guy with all the Quake mods and Deus Ex and all that jazz. Back then the attitude was consoles couldn't have deep games or console gamers didn't want them or something. Consoles don't suck anymore (although access to the PC mods would be awesome!). The games have gotten remarkably deep on consoles. But since they're aiming for a primarily PC-base and a hardcore market it's very hard to imagine the new PC game would be compromised in order to make it adaptable to the console.



You know... as a PC gamer who very rarely plays consoles, I've come to resent consoles.  It's purely a market size thing; console gamers vastly outnumber PC gamers.  So when a neat game idea comes along, 4 times out of 5, it's a console-only title.  And when it _does_ come to PC, 4 times out of 5, it's a poorly done port which is painful to play.  Resident Evil 5, for instance, does not support a mouse (?!).

There are games which play better on consoles, and the systems do have their charms.  But my beef is all the games I'm missing out on because they opt not to come out for my chosen platform.



GregoryOatmeal said:


> I'm hoping System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, Torment, and all the other classics get the same treatment.



I would _love_ to see an update of System Shock.  That game is pure genius.  It would be great for more folks to recognize GladOS' inspiration.


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## Jiggawatts (Mar 16, 2012)

Go for the eyes enhanced boo....go for the eyes!!!


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## Dordledum (Mar 16, 2012)

Dannager said:


> Trent Oster stated today that he wants to see a Baldur's Gate 3, and that the Enhanced Editions are part of the "master plan".




Woot!


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## Jhaelen (Mar 16, 2012)

Since I never got to finish the original Baldur's gate (due to a hard drive crash), I might actually look into that


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## Chris_Nightwing (Mar 16, 2012)

For those that haven't seen it, Baldur's Gate Tutu allowed you to play through BG1 and TotSC using the enhanced rules from BG2 (Kits, Barbarian, Monk, Sorceror, Wild Mage, Fighting styles, more spells and goodness knows what else).

I cross my fingers they have the wisdom to do the same in the enhanced edition!


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## 3catcircus (Mar 16, 2012)

Dannager said:


> Because if you buy the enhanced editions, you'll be supporting the narrative that a Baldur's Gate 3 would be a worthwhile project to fund. Trent Oster stated today that he wants to see a Baldur's Gate 3, and that the Enhanced Editions are part of the "master plan".




Makes no sense.  If they have a budget, spend it on a new game.  If they are doing this on a shoestring, then they should go back and rethink their strategy.  If they need people to buy this in order to fund development of a new game, then I stand by my original statement - its a money grab.  I don't think the new game will be BG3 though, since it is on record that BG3 has been in development (off and on) since 2004 (to be published by Atari) 



> It's not just new content, though. The graphics will receive an overhaul, the UI will be upgraded, etc. I think you can expect some new content, but for me the real pull is going to be a version of the game that is designed from the ground up to run at 1920x1080.




Couldn't. care. less.  The original BG2 plays just fine the way it is - it doesn't need the new shiny treatment in order to get people to play it, especially when you can get it on gog.com for $9.99 and it'll run out of the box on Win7.  More importantly, beamdog is a digital distribution service, not a game development studio, so I expect that they _won't_ be doing the development of BG3.


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## Roman (Mar 16, 2012)

I loved the Baldur's Gate series, especially Baldur's Gate II, but I must say a remake does not get me very excited and I will probably pass on buying it. After all, I still have my original BG II discs if I want to replay the game (and sometimes I still do). Now if this were merely presaging a sequel, that would be a different matter... !


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## Wraith Form (Mar 16, 2012)

iwarrior-poet said:


> Let them come out with a Mac version! I stopped being a PC Dolt three years ago!!!




Dolt?  really?

Let's be at least polite.  You may not like the platform (and you have every right to that opinion) but you don't have to be offensive to others.


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## Blackwarder (Mar 16, 2012)

Excellent, I hope they have an iPad version! 

Just a month ago I started daydreaming about BG with new graphics.

From what I understand, they are going to give it a face lift up, I hope they won't make it extremely different visually than the originals though.

Warder


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## Yora (Mar 16, 2012)

While Baldur's Gate is my favorite game, the gameplay is pretty bad and we've come a great way in the past 14 years. You could salvage the plot, the NPCs, and the major places, but to make it a good modern game, you would have to make lots of things very different. There's just no fun anymore in searching an entire map to find a couple of random monsters and an old barrel with 3 gold coins. That was outdated even by the time BG2 was out.


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## SkidAce (Mar 16, 2012)

Yora said:


> While Baldur's Gate is my favorite game, the gameplay is pretty bad and we've come a great way in the past 14 years. You could salvage the plot, the NPCs, and the major places, but to make it a good modern game, you would have to make lots of things very different. There's just no fun anymore in searching an entire map to find a couple of random monsters and an old barrel with 3 gold coins. That was outdated even by the time BG2 was out.




Nah, still fun..../grin.


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## Ravenbow (Mar 16, 2012)

Yora said:


> While Baldur's Gate is my favorite game, the gameplay is pretty bad and we've come a great way in the past 14 years. You could salvage the plot, the NPCs, and the major places, but to make it a good modern game, you would have to make lots of things very different. There's just no fun anymore in searching an entire map to find a couple of random monsters and an old barrel with 3 gold coins. That was outdated even by the time BG2 was out.




I am currently playing BG (again) and I am excited at the idea of an upgrade.

I also do not mind playing an adventure where things are not handed to me because I am in a hurry to get to 'the boss fight' or max level.

Not an attack, just a counter argument. Some of us miss searching for the missing pieces, just like in a tabletop session.


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## Yora (Mar 16, 2012)

This is true. For people who like the game as it already is. But with a remake 14 years later, you are not producing for the same people who already bought and still own the original game.
Okay, maybe they do, but that would be a terrible idea as a company.


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## Super Pony (Mar 16, 2012)

Well they've released umpteen bagillion versions of various antiquated console games on current gen consoles (_Sega Genesis repackages, etc_). I suppose it makes sense to have a PC version of that marketing strategy to keep old IP's alive on 64-bit operating systems. 

There's certainly a lot of memetic love for Baldur's Gate on the interwebs. Even though many of the proponents are probably younger than the franchise and have only run into "_omg Baldur's Gate rules_" on their travels in various forum-spaces. But it'd be a bit daft for BioWare *not* to make a few more ducats on a re-release to capitalize on the interest in BG1 and BG2.

As much as I love Xzar and Minsk, I'm just not sure I'd be up for paying for the game again (_even at like $9.99_) unless the updates and overhauls are truly sweeping in scope and the 'additional content' is robust and adds variation to the game beyond what we've already seen for over a decade.


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## Zireael (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm super happy.

They say the game will include new NPCs. And "more chapters". And BG 1 & 2 will be better connected in terms of the plot....

/Must make a wishlist!/


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## messy (Mar 16, 2012)

Dannager said:


> Trent Oster stated today that he wants to see a Baldur's Gate 3, and that the Enhanced Editions are part of the "master plan".




wow, this just keeps getting better and better.


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## avin (Mar 16, 2012)

My wet dream would be Planescape: Torment... with better graphics, and unfinished modules on (already played using my Gog's).

For a while I dreamt about a 3.5 Baldur's Gate. My interest on it will depend who's on the team... It may be fun...

As for Baldur's Gate 3, my interest is zero since Project Jefferson was canned.

Almost forgot: please REMOVE Cespenar from the game. Khtxbai.


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## avin (Mar 16, 2012)

messy said:


> wow, this just keeps getting better and better.




Why? Neither Bioware or Black Isle are involved... I predict (for BG3) something crappy as that console BG... 

Unless they call J E Sawyer and continue from here: 
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate_III:_The_Black_Hound


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## Sammael (Mar 16, 2012)

I'm not sure Josh would be willing to start that project for the _third time_.

Besides, it had nothing to do with the BG Saga, it only used the name due to licensing issues and recognizability (which is now pretty much gone).


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## Endur (Mar 16, 2012)

Deuce Traveler said:


> <Pats Kzach's shoulder in a comrade-like manner> Don't you worry yourself, sir.  I will be willing to make the sacrifice, purchase this here item, and micro-manage the party enough for the both of us a few times over.  Gog.com has Planescape: Torment with links to restored content fan mods.




I never really micro-managed the party that much anyways.  

I mostly gave everyone melee weapons and told them to attack.  Spellcasting was the area where micro management seemed to be needed the most (preventing spellcasters from fireballing/firestorming/flamestriking their fellow party members).


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## Endur (Mar 16, 2012)

More MINSC = Many Purchases


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## Deuce Traveler (Mar 16, 2012)

Endur said:


> I never really micro-managed the party that much anyways.
> 
> I mostly gave everyone melee weapons and told them to attack.  Spellcasting was the area where micro management seemed to be needed the most (preventing spellcasters from fireballing/firestorming/flamestriking their fellow party members).




I found that the enemies at the start of BG1 mostly consisted of weaker melee sorts like gibberlings, so having a party armed with missile weapons worked wonders.  BG2 changed that as the enemy had more tools at its disposal.  And I would turn off spellcasting as an AI option.


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## JonArkanix (Mar 16, 2012)

Sammael said:


> recognizability (which is now pretty much gone).



Yes, that is why a simple "baldursgate website" search on Google returned countless links with predictions about the countdown timer.

Your comment sounds like one of publisher kids from the Brian Fargo/Inxile Kickstarter video.


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## Sammael (Mar 16, 2012)

JonArkanix said:


> Yes, that is why a simple "baldursgate website" search on Google returned countless links with predictions about the countdown timer.
> 
> Your comment sounds like one of publisher kids from the Brian Fargo/Inxile Kickstarter video.



Uh... look, I'm an old school gamer. Been a member of Interplay/Black Isle forums from 1998 until they closed. Ran the biggest fansite for Icewind Dale II along with some other people. Ran the fansite for TBH. 

Simply put, today's gamers have no clue what BG is all about, which is why I said that releasing TBH under the BG moniker would mean little. Now, if this reincarnation does well (I hope it does, but I have my doubts), that could change the ball game. But not yet.


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## avin (Mar 16, 2012)

Sammael said:


> Uh... look, I'm an old school gamer. Been a member of Interplay/Black Isle forums from 1998 until they closed. Ran the biggest fansite for Icewind Dale II along with some other people. Ran the fansite for TBH.




I can confirm that. 

I was there too since, well, ever. On BIO and BIS forums.

Sammael was a well known forum poster.


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## avin (Mar 16, 2012)

Sammael said:


> Besides, it had nothing to do with the BG Saga, it only used the name due to licensing issues and recognizability (which is now pretty much gone).




I'm aware of that, nevertheless, it's this BG I would be interested in.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 16, 2012)

GregoryOatmeal said:


> I wish people were a little more open-minded about consoles. I used to be a PC-only kind of guy with all the Quake mods and Deus Ex and all that jazz. Back then the attitude was consoles couldn't have deep games or console gamers didn't want them or something. Consoles don't suck anymore (although access to the PC mods would be awesome!). The games have gotten remarkably deep on consoles. But since they're aiming for a primarily PC-base and a hardcore market it's very hard to imagine the new PC game would be compromised in order to make it adaptable to the console.
> 
> Although I only played a couple hours of BG I can't imagine why it wouldn't fly on a controller. The direction pad could be set to 8 spells or items and R1/L1 could each open eight more (like in NWN). You could manually select targets or use keys to cycle through them. The FO3 interface on Xbox is just as elegant, powerful, and utilitarian as the FO1 interface on PC - you can simply do more things faster and the interface isn't dumbed down or simplified. So I think the assumption that multi-platform releases detract from computer games is faulty (with the obvious exception of Starcraft and a few others).
> 
> As a computing professional sitting at a desk for more hours every week and managing game DRM/settings isn't relaxing anymore. PC-only is a deal-breaker. I'm hoping System Shock, Thief, Deus Ex, Torment, and all the other classics get the same treatment.



Other consoles are not in themselves problematic. However, it is important that the game be designed with a PC in mind. Many people don't have a console. Moreover, look to Dragon Age II as an example of where designing a game *for* console when it should be a PC game can go horribly wrong.

But I do hope they make the game accessible to a wide variety of platforms.

And while it's greatness is unquestioned, I think a technical upgrade could be done well to make the interface more user-friendly and update the graphics.


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## JonArkanix (Mar 16, 2012)

Sammael said:


> Simply put, today's gamers have no clue what BG is all about, which is why I said that releasing TBH under the BG moniker would mean little.



Strangely, even older games are still recognized enough to raise funds for a sequel. Wasteland 2 by inXile entertainment — Kickstarter

What you're saying about BG label is clearly flawed. I guess we'll see how things go in a few months.


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## Endur (Mar 17, 2012)

BG 3 will be a valuable product, if the existing characters are involved somehow: Minsc, Edwin, etc.

If its just the name, and all-new group of characters (as was the original plan for BG3) it becomes much less interesting for me.  

I don't think the party has to be entirely the same ... BG2 included only some of the BG1 characters ... but I think BG3 should be as related to BG2 as BG2 was related to BG1.

For instance, you might be able to visit Keldorn Firecam, whos is a retired Paladin NPC, and you could meet his family and possibly get quests in BG 3.  (Or maybe recruit one of his children to join the party).

You might encounter Edwina as an Evil Boss in a zone.  

etc.

I'm ok with the protagonist being completely new, as the protagonist is much less interesting than the NPCs.


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## Dire Bare (Mar 17, 2012)

3catcircus said:


> Makes no sense.  If they have a budget, spend it on a new game.  If they are doing this on a shoestring, then they should go back and rethink their strategy.  If they need people to buy this in order to fund development of a new game, then I stand by my original statement - its a money grab.  I don't think the new game will be BG3 though, since it is on record that BG3 has been in development (off and on) since 2004 (to be published by Atari)




First, to address your earlier "money grab" statement.  Sigh.  Yes, Beamdog wants your money.  One of the best ways to do that, is to provide you with an awesome product or service you want.  While a "remastered" Baldur's Gate isn't to everyone's tastes, clearly Beamdog has already rang the bell and starting many folks salivating . . .

And "makes no sense"?  Again . . . sigh.  Judged only on the response the news has generated so far, I think what Beamdog is doing makes loads of sense.  Again, if it doesn't get you excited personally, that's cool.  But I'm confident that this money grab makes lots of sense and will make many gamers, young and old, very happy.  I'll be purchasing a copy, for sure.


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## Dire Bare (Mar 17, 2012)

avin said:


> Why? Neither Bioware or Black Isle are involved... I predict (for BG3) something crappy as that console BG...




Hey, I enjoyed "Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance", both I and II!  Sure, it was not "really" Baldur's Gate, but a fun pair of console games none-the-less!


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## JohnRTroy (Mar 17, 2012)

While I'm glad they are making an enhanced edition with higher-res graphics, I never really played this game all the way through--I found it boring after 20 hours--I found myself liking an RPG like the original Deus Ex.  It wasn't until NWN2 that I was amazed at how far narrative had come in cRPGs.  Thus, I'm now a big fan of Dragon Age and Mass Effect, other games like Kingdoms of Amalur.

I don't think they'll make a Baldur's Gate 3, especially since I doubt WoTC and Hasbro want to support the older edition--they are probably allowed to do this because of the existing contract and, at the end of the day, it's a port.

Baldur's Gate is well received I suspect because it was the first real D&D game that had the right mix--the older Gold Box games didn't have a lot of deep story, and it's the game that put Bioware on the map.  I suspect for some it's akin to the CRPG what Star Wars was for the movies.  

That's cool, but I find I am getting sick of people bitching and moaning that games aren't as good as BG1/2 or PS:T, which I think in part is the competition with nostalgia.  I think we've come a LONG way to improving the presentation, narrative, and experience of the cRPG and I wish somebody would recognize the other stuff out there and not bitch and moan about "streamlining" or "dumbing down".  

I want to see a 5e Forgotten Realms game with the same quality of a Dragon Age: Origins, Witcher 2, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, or Mass Effect.  I hope we get that someday.


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## Yora (Mar 17, 2012)

Baldur's Gate hasn't aged well in the narrative department. There was too much of an open world approach involved, which resulted in 80% of the games areas being completely irrelevant to the games plot.
Which is why I think a simple graphics update won't do. Back in the day, it was the best we could get, but over 13 years have passed during which RPG narrative has made huge advancements. Cutting the game down to the main story could make it work, as that part is still quite good.

But I have to say BG2 is still amazing. It scrapped all the useless areas, while greatly expanding on the quest and story. BG2 is a massive game, but BioWare games since then have always been smaller because of the engines they use. With an open world engine like Skyrim, it might be doable.


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## Endur (Mar 17, 2012)

JohnRTroy said:


> While I'm glad they are making an enhanced edition with higher-res graphics, I never really played this game all the way through--I found it boring after 20 hours--I found myself liking an RPG like the original Deus Ex.  It wasn't until NWN2 that I was amazed at how far narrative had come in cRPGs.  Thus, I'm now a big fan of Dragon Age and Mass Effect, other games like Kingdoms of Amalur.
> 
> That's cool, but I find I am getting sick of people bitching and moaning that games aren't as good as BG1/2 or PS:T, which I think in part is the competition with nostalgia.
> 
> I want to see a 5e Forgotten Realms game with the same quality of a Dragon Age: Origins, Witcher 2, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, or Mass Effect.  I hope we get that someday.




From your post, I'm not sure if you ever played BG2.  My perspective is that BG2 was even better than BG1.  The overall story may become boring at a certain point in the game, but the actions of the NPC party members were never boring.  If all of the BG2 NPC party member narratives and discussions were filmed as part of a soap opera or games of throne like series, it would have been pretty interesting.  I look at Dragon Age:Origins and Witcher as attempts to get back to the glory of BG2.  

Are there things that DA:O and Witcher do better than BG2 did?  Absolutely.  Graphics engine.  Long drawn out character story.  complicated interactions with NPCs.  BG2 had complicated character stories and romances, but DA:O and Witcher go further.  That said, BG2 did NPC interactions better than any game I had seen previously.  It set the standard for everything that came afterwards.  

I look at BG2 as sort of like Star Wars, and DA:O and Witcher as sort of like later films in the trilogy ... better special effects, but the genre was set in the first movie.


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## Zireael (Mar 17, 2012)

Baldur's Gate 1 had mystery and open world, but little when it came to NPC interaction.

Baldur's Gate 2 had no mystery and no open world, but awesome NPC interaction, even better than Witcher or Gothic (although it lacks 'atmospheric actions' present in the 3D games).

My perfect game would combine the best of BG 1 with the best of BG 2.


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## Warunsun (Mar 17, 2012)

Shemeska said:


> I'm shocked and thrilled that they didn't try to make it into another edition. Awesome!



I am not. First since this is a clean-up or port of an existing game they pretty much want to tidy it up and leave a lot of it alone. Something as dramatic as replacing all the combat programing would involve entirely more work than such an effort was worth. Besides it would end up being pretty much a new game. If they wanted to do a new game they would have.

The idea here is that this supports the _Nostalgia_ marketing movement of Wizards of the Coast. First they are giving us first edition game manuals in print and now second edition video games in the store. Both these manuals and the video Game _Baldur's Gate_ are highly nostalgic and old timers remember them. All part of the build-up to the fifth edition marketing campaign that it will be an edition for everyone.

Also, it is an excellent cash grab for the studio doing the port. So it works for them as well.


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## Dannager (Mar 17, 2012)

3catcircus said:


> Makes no sense.  If they have a budget, spend it on a new game. If they are doing this on a shoestring, then they should go back and rethink their strategy.




This is only a valid observation if the dev team is working with a massive budget (enough to develop an entire new game with modern standards) or a shoestring budget (not enough to do a quality update to an old game). The reality is that they probably have something in between that is sufficient for the task at hand.



> If they need people to buy this in order to fund development of a new game, then I stand by my original statement - its a money grab.




In the sense that they think that people will pay for something that they want to play, yes. Is there something wrong with that? I'll certainly be buying it.



> I don't think the new game will be BG3 though, since it is on record that BG3 has been in development (off and on) since 2004 (to be published by Atari)




I don't know how much "on" there has been in the last eight years. Once active development stopped back in 2004, I don't believe development of the game has ever been officially restarted.



> Couldn't. care. less.  The original BG2 plays just fine the way it is - it doesn't need the new shiny treatment in order to get people to play it, especially when you can get it on gog.com for $9.99 and it'll run out of the box on Win7.




No, it doesn't _need_ it, but I'd sure _prefer_ it that way. And I'm willing to pay for it. And so are a lot of other people, I'll bet. I don't want a game that "plays just fine". I want a game that plays very well.



> More importantly, beamdog is a digital distribution service, not a game development studio, so I expect that they _won't_ be doing the development of BG3.




Beamdog _has_ a development team, called Overhaul Games. They've only worked on a couple of projects, but it's not out of the question that they might grow the development team in order to create a full-fledged title from scratch (as opposed to the updates they've been doing with MDK2 and BG). After all, Steam is a digital distribution service, but that focus hasn't stopped Valve from being a game development studio. You can be a digital publisher and a development house at the same time.


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 17, 2012)

avin said:


> My wet dream would be Planescape: Torment... with better graphics, and unfinished modules on (already played using my Gog's).
> 
> For a while I dreamt about a 3.5 Baldur's Gate. My interest on it will depend who's on the team... It may be fun...
> 
> ...




I have never understood the almost universal love for Planescape.  I've tried to play through it many times and always gave up in boredom.  By contrast, I've played through the BG series 5 or 6 times and IWD 3 or 4.  Even managed to get through IWD2 a couple times.  As for Cespenar, I agree completely.


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 17, 2012)

JohnRTroy said:


> That's cool, but I find I am getting sick of people bitching and moaning that games aren't as good as BG1/2 or PS:T, which I think in part is the competition with nostalgia.  I think we've come a LONG way to improving the presentation, narrative, and experience of the cRPG and I wish somebody would recognize the other stuff out there and not bitch and moan about "streamlining" or "dumbing down".
> 
> I want to see a 5e Forgotten Realms game with the same quality of a Dragon Age: Origins, Witcher 2, Skyrim, Kingdoms of Amalur: Reckoning, or Mass Effect.  I hope we get that someday.




I followed the Dragon Age development on Bioware's forums almost religiously.  The spiritual successor to BG?  Sign me up!  But I don't think I have ever been disappointed more by a game.  It played like a single player version of WoW.  I already have a WoW account and I can play it with my friends.  KoA/Skyrim, etc doesn't interest me at all.  I haven't played an Elder Scrolls game since Daggerfall, nor shall I.  I want to manage a party.  Not play one character and have a henchman follow me around to boost my dps and dispense plot information.  I think the only single character rpg I ever enjoyed was Strife.  Give me BG or Wasteland or The Bard's Tale, or Might and Magic over Skyrim and The Witcher any day.


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## avin (Mar 18, 2012)

Warunsun said:


> The idea here is that this supports the _Nostalgia_ marketing movement of Wizards of the Coast.




I think the idea here is that this is the edition which rights are supported by the owner...


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## Yora (Mar 18, 2012)

When I played DA for the first time, I was amazed how much it really plays like like Baldur's Gate. Except with Mana instead of prepared spells. Yay!


Endur said:


> From your post, I'm not sure if you ever played BG2.  My perspective is that BG2 was even better than BG1.  The overall story may become boring at a certain point in the game, but the actions of the NPC party members were never boring.



Remember Jaheira and the slaver? Yes, it's short and a bit simplistic when you look back at it. But between the lines, there's so much emotion going on.

[sblock]
- Excuse me, do I know you?
- You ruined me, you bitch! Now you don't even remember me.
- I know, I just wanted you to say it loud to everyone here.

- Damn, you bastard! You cursed me!

- I need to find our old ally! Where is he?!
- He's dead.
- What?!

- I have an offer for you. We were hired to protect him, but he's a bastard and if you pay us, we will not show up when you take him down.[/sblock]
So much nasty stuff, people are doing to each other, in such a short quest. That's some really dirty fighting, that I don't remember even from Dragon Age or Mass Effect 2. And that's just a short minor quest.


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## Jablaylo (Mar 19, 2012)

CAFRedblade said:


> I am so getting this updated version of the classic.  I wonder if it'll be able to read my old save files...
> 
> Baldur's Gate: Enhanced Edition Announced, Server Explodes [Update]
> 
> ...






That was the FIRST thing I thought!  Need to enhance Planescape: Torment!


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## Thunderfoot (Mar 20, 2012)

JohnRTroy said:


> <SNIP>think they'll make a Baldur's Gate 3, especially since I doubt WoTC and Hasbro want to support the older edition--they are probably allowed to do this because of the existing contract and, at the end of the day, it's a port.
> <SNIP>



6 months ago, I would have agreed with this, however in light of the new push to hype the 5e, all inclusive system, the re-release of the classic 1e AD&D books and the sudden urge to "bring D&D to every household in the world", I would see this as a great way to get 2e rules out to the mass market without having to re-release those books as well.  

Right now we know that WotC is re-releasing the 1e books
Assuming this is the release of the 2e material to the world at large and
that 4e is the currently supported system.
The only question now is how are they going to suck the 3e players back in?
(Support of the Pathfinder system? - doubtful, but in this strange new WotC we love everyone world, who is to say.  Besides, Paizo is comprised of several old TSR/WotC staffers.)


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## Thunderfoot (Mar 20, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> I have never understood the almost universal love for Planescape.  I've tried to play through it many times and always gave up in boredom.  By contrast, I've played through the BG series 5 or 6 times and IWD 3 or 4.  Even managed to get through IWD2 a couple times.  As for Cespenar, I agree completely.



I agree, I never understood the love of Planescape as TSR product period.  It re-named all the demons and devils to baatezu (WTF that is) or whatnot and then gave them all new names, re-organized the hierarchies of both Hell and Abyss and then created this "blood war" between them.  And mostly it introduced the now overused celestials and tieflings (barf).  Okay, I realize I'm in the minority, but I have yet to hear anyone explain WHY all this content was so good.  For me, it just reeked of playing to the religious crowd as they got rid of devils and demons from the game, "See, no Satan worship here.  Can I play D&D again, now mom?"


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## Dire Bare (Mar 20, 2012)

Thunderfoot said:


> I agree, I never understood the love of Planescape as TSR product period.  It re-named all the demons and devils to baatezu (WTF that is) or whatnot and then gave them all new names, re-organized the hierarchies of both Hell and Abyss and then created this "blood war" between them.  And mostly it introduced the now overused celestials and tieflings (barf).  Okay, I realize I'm in the minority, but I have yet to hear anyone explain WHY all this content was so good.  For me, it just reeked of playing to the religious crowd as they got rid of devils and demons from the game, "See, no Satan worship here.  Can I play D&D again, now mom?"




We're not talking about the tabletop RPG setting, but rather the videogame "Planescape: Torment" that used the same engine as Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.  Not everyone's cuppa tea of course, but widely considered an amazing game.

But . . . since you mentioned it . . . you don't have to like the setting, but yeah, you have totally missed the point of it.  Absolutely nothing to do with catering to "families" or to avoid the baleful gaze of the Moral Majority.


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## Endur (Mar 21, 2012)

Deuce Traveler said:


> I found that the enemies at the start of BG1 mostly consisted of weaker melee sorts like gibberlings, so having a party armed with missile weapons worked wonders.  BG2 changed that as the enemy had more tools at its disposal.  And I would turn off spellcasting as an AI option.




Now that I think more about it, I think I had two (or three) party members with melee weapons and the rest with missile weapons with spell casting turned off.

I did it mostly for control purposes... the missile troops didn't move that far, and I found it easier to control 2 or 3 melee characters and make sure they didn't pull additional encounters into a current combat.

Then when I saw a need for spell casting I'd micro manage one or two of the spell casters.  Usually at the beginning of a tough combat, I'd micro-manage until the enemy spell casters were taken care of.  Then I go back to melee and missile.


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## Thunderfoot (Mar 21, 2012)

Dire Bare said:


> We're not talking about the tabletop RPG setting, but rather the videogame "Planescape: Torment" that used the same engine as Baldur's Gate and Icewind Dale.  Not everyone's cuppa tea of course, but widely considered an amazing game.
> 
> But . . . since you mentioned it . . . you don't have to like the setting, but yeah, you have totally missed the point of it.  Absolutely nothing to do with catering to "families" or to avoid the baleful gaze of the Moral Majority.



No actually that WAS the reason they switched to words other than devil or demon...  Also the nudity in the artwork disappeared at the same time.  

I do get that the video game and the tabletop are different, the Planescape: Torment engine was just a ramping up of the the BG/ID CPRG engine, probably could be seen as a direct descendant of some of the changes in the new version of BG that we are getting.    It was the subject matter that I didn't care for, not saying that your liking of it is badwrongfun... I try to keep away from those statements, after all, there are a lot of things I find charming and dandy about the 1st ed version of D&D that most people are glad that are gone;  (No spell level limits, uneven XP charts, expanded to hit tables in the 20 zone (6 20s before 21 vice the THAC0 chart, racial level limits, etc) I just couldn't get behind PS, it just felt wrong to me.


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## Dire Bare (Mar 22, 2012)

Thunderfoot said:


> No actually that WAS the reason they switched to words other than devil or demon...  Also the nudity in the artwork disappeared at the same time.




Nope.  The terminology change and general "sanitizing" of the game happened long before the Planescape setting was a gleam in Zeb Cook's eye.  Of course, Planescape was built on top of those changes, and many blame the setting for the changes . . . but they are not directly related.

I'm actually a fan of *most* of the sanitizing changes made to the game . . . the old ways didn't offend me, but I appreciated opening up the game to a wider audience.  But the erasure of the words "demon" and "devil" was pretty unnecessary, IMO, and not a good call.  On the other hand, I LOVE the "native" names of "baatezu" and "tanar'ri".  In my campaigns, foolish mortal scholars refer to the fiends as devils and demons (although use the terms interchangeably, just like the real world), but the fiends call themselves by "clan" names baatezu, tanar'ri, gehereleth, yugoloth . . . .


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 22, 2012)

Looks like the enhanced edition is for the Ipad.


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## JonArkanix (Mar 22, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> Looks like the enhanced edition is for the Ipad.



Read again, they're adding iPad as a platform for the BGEE releases.



> Of course #bgee will be on PC. We're adding #iPad as a platform, we're 100% supporting the PC.


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 22, 2012)

I'm not seeing anything saying there will be a pc version.  Perhaps you could enlighten me?


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## Blackwarder (Mar 22, 2012)

Yay for iPad version! Where did you get that?

Warder


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 22, 2012)

Here:  Baldur's Gate

I'm glad to see Ipad fans get a version, but I'm not interested in tablets.  Anything with controls more difficult than Angry Birds is more trouble than it's worth on a tablet.  I want a pc version or I'm going to start kicking puppies.


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## JonArkanix (Mar 22, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> I'm not seeing anything saying there will be a pc version.  Perhaps you could enlighten me?




I quoted Trent Oster directly from his twitter feed in my last post, he clearly states there is a PC release planned and iPad is merely a newly added platform.

https://twitter.com/#!/TrentOster


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## Blackwarder (Mar 22, 2012)

I doubt that they won't release a PC version, the potential market is too big for not doing it... Unless they manage to somehow make an iPhone version because that potential market is huge... But I doubt it, the screen size is not suited for the game, maybe on a 4'' screen.

Ive been dreaming about an iPad version of old classics for a long time, BG I & II, the discworld quests, MMO2 (which I found a nice game that reminds me of it) etc...

Warder


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## JRRNeiklot (Mar 22, 2012)

JonArkanix said:


> I quoted Trent Oster directly from his twitter feed in my last post, he clearly states there is a PC release planned and iPad is merely a newly added platform.
> 
> https://twitter.com/#!/TrentOster




Ah, thanks, I'm not Twitter literate.  Did I just make a word?  Twitterliterate?  

The website, however, says nothing about a pc version, unless I'm missing it.


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## messy (Mar 22, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> Ah, thanks, I'm not Twitter literate.  Did I just make a word?  Twitterliterate?




"twitterate."


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## Dordledum (Mar 23, 2012)

Well, my dilemma is that our home-pc is slightly broken in that I can't play *any* videogames on it anymore, money being tight and my wife contemplating on buying an android-device, I hope they will include options for that as well.


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## Blackwarder (Mar 23, 2012)

Get an iPad, on the long run it will be better.

Warder


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## Warunsun (Mar 25, 2012)

JRRNeiklot said:


> I'm not seeing anything saying there will be a pc version.  Perhaps you could enlighten me?



Just a guess here but I am willing to bet that the main work being done is to port this game to the iPad. Since the iPad is new and shiny and makes distribution easy through their App store.

I imagine that a PC version will be released but I doubt it will get as much love as the iPad version. I also doubt it will be released as a traditional boxed game. It is likely to be digital only.


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## Will Doyle (Mar 27, 2012)

3catcircus said:


> On the face of it, this seems a money grab, plain and simple.  If  they are merely adding new content it had better be a significant upgrade or it won't be worth my $.
> 
> Why bother with this when they could've created a whole new game instead?




I think that's unfair. If an old film is converted to Blu Ray, do you see it as a money grab? I see it as keeping that film _alive_. Why should computer games be any different? If this release rekindles an old game for new players - on new platforms - why grumble?


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## 3catcircus (Mar 28, 2012)

Will Doyle said:


> I think that's unfair. If an old film is converted to Blu Ray, do you see it as a money grab? I see it as keeping that film _alive_. Why should computer games be any different? If this release rekindles an old game for new players - on new platforms - why grumble?




I do see something converted to Blu Ray as a money grab.  Likewise, the recent re-issue of Phantom Menace in 3D.  Keeping the existing version on store shelves is keeping it alive.

As to keeping this specific game alive?  GOG.com.  $9.99.  You get all of BG2.  It works on WinXP, Vista, and Win7 (x86 and x64).  _That_ is keeping it alive.  Likewise, BG1 - $9.99.  TotSC included.  again, works up through Win7.

Don't like GOG.com?  How about if they were to release it to Steam?

My point is - throwing in some new content and making it HD doesn't significantly change the gameplay.  And that it what makes BG2 great - the gameplay.  Fancy graphics are secondary.


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## Warunsun (Mar 30, 2012)

Hey folks.

Just read that Atari is having a sale and for $5 you get:
Baldur’s Gate 1 & 2 + Expansions
Icewind Dale 1 & 2 + Expansions
Planescape: Torment
and
The Temple of Elemental Evil

That is a great price. I already own half of these games and am considering buying it.


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