# Tell me about these older edition D&D products [list updated: Nov 20/10]



## Knightfall (Apr 14, 2009)

The lists on my previous thread with this thread's title were getting a little messy. So, I decided to condense and revise my Master List and start fresh. Plus, the list is better organized.

As with the previous thread, I'm looking for opinions, good or bad, regarding the products listed in the list below. Are they any good? What makes them stand out? What makes them bad? Any and all comments and suggestions are welcome.

Cheers!

Knightfall

_____________________________________​
*THE MASTER QUERY LIST (Last Updated: November 20th, 2010)*
Any product marked with an asterisk (*) is something that I know that Whyte Knight has available. (Whyte Knight [WK] is a FLGS in Edmonton that buys/sells used gaming products.) If a specific item is listed with a price then I noted/memorized that price while at WK.

*Pre-1993*
Cloudland [GREN 702] [by Grenadier]
Book of Lairs II, The [REF4]
Dark and Hidden Ways [2019S]
Dungeoneer's Survival Guide (*)
Egg of the Phoenix [I12]
Elixir of Life, The [RPGA4]
Forgotten King, The [RPGA3]
Gauntlet, The [UK3] 
Sentinel, The [UK2]
Wild Things [2020S]
Unearthed Arcana
Wilderness Survival Guide ("got it")

BLACKMOOR ("recommended")
Adventures in Blackmoor [DA1]
City of the Gods [DA3]
Duchy of Ten, The [DA4]
Temple of the Frog [DA2] ("must have")

DRAGONLANCE
Atlas of the Dragonlance World, The (*)
Classics Volume I [DLC1]
DragonLance Adventures (*) ("recommended")
DragonLance E Series
- In Search of Dragons [DLE1] (*)
- Dragon Magic [DLE2] (*)
- Dragon Keep [DLE3] (*)
DragonLance Mage Stones Game [boxed set]
Flint's Axe [DLQ2]
Knight's Sword [DLQ1]
Oak Lords [DLS3]
Tales of the Lance [boxed set] ("got it")
Tree Lords [DLS2] ("recommended")
Wild Elves [DLS4]

FORGOTTEN REALMS
City of Waterdeep Trail Map, The [TM4]
Curse of the Azure Bonds [FRC2]
Empires Adventures Trilogy
Storm Riders [FRA1] (*) ("recommended")
Black Courser [FRA2] (*) ("recommended")
Blood Charge [FRA3] (*) ("recommended")
The Living City
- Gateway to Ravens Bluff, The Living City [LC1]
- Inside Ravens Bluff, The Living City [LC2]
- Nightwatch in the Living City [LC3]
- Port of Ravens Bluff [LC4]
Lords of Darkness [REF5]
Haunted Halls of Eveningstar [FRQ1]
Hordes of Dragonspear [FRQ2]
Nightmare Keep [FA2]
Ruins of Adventure [FRC1]
Under Illefarn [N5]
Volo's Guide to Waterdeep ("recommended")

GREYHAWK
Child's Play [WG10]
Falcon Subseries
- Falcon’s Revenge [WGA1] (*)
- Falconmaster [WGA2]
- Flames of the Falcon [WGA3]
Fate of Istus [WG8] (*)
Five Shall Be One [WGS1]
Gargoyle [WG9] (*)
Howl From the North [WGS2] (*)
Patriots of Ulek [WGQ1]
Puppets [WG11]
Rary the Traitor [WGR3] ("not recommended")
Treasures of Greyhawk [WGR2]
Vecna Lives! [WGA4] ("got it")

HOLLOW WORLD
Blood Brethren Trilogy ("recommended")
- Nightwail [HWA1]
- Nightrage [HWA2]
- Nightstorm [HWA3]
Milenian Scepter, The [HWQ1] ("got it")

LANKHMAR
CA1 Swords of the Undercity
CA2 Swords of Deceit

MYSTARA
B5 Horror on the Hill ("meat grinder")
B8 Journey to The Rock
B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond (*)
B11 King’s Festival ("recommended")
B12 Queen’s Harvest ("recommended")
CM6 Where Chaos Reigns
CM7 The Tree of Life
CM8 The Endless Stair ("recommended")
CM9 Legacy of Blood
DDA3 Eye of Traldar
DDA4 The Dymrak Dread
M1 Into the Maelstrom
M2 Vengeance of Alphaks (*)
M3 Twilight Calling
M4 Five Coins for a Kingdom
M5 Talons of Night
X3 Curse of Xanathon (*)
X6 Quagmire! (*)
X8 Drums on Fire Mountain ("got it")
X11 Saga of the Shadow Lord
X13 Crown of Ancient Glory
XS2 Thunderdelve Mountain

RAVENLOFT
Book of Crypts [RR2]
Darklords [RR1]
Islands of Terror [RR4]

ROLE AIDS
Clockwork Mage (*)
Evil Ruins
Lich Lords
Shipwrecker (*)
Swordthrust
Tower of Magicks

SPELLJAMMER
Goblins' Return [SJS1]
Heart of the Enemy [SJQ1]
Skull & Crossbows [SJA2] ("recommended")
Wildspace [SJA1] ("got it")
Under The Dark Fist [SJA4] ("got it")

*1993*
DRAGONLANCE
Book of Lairs - Dragonlance
Classics Volume II [DLC2] (*)
Dwarven Kingdoms of Krynn [boxed set]
New Tales: The Land Reborn [DLT1]
Player's Guide to the DRAGONLANCE Campaign, The [PG1]

FORGOTTEN REALMS
Doom of Daggerdale [FRQ3]
Player's Guide to the FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign, The [PG2]

RAVENLOFT
Castles Forlorn [boxed set] (*)
Web of Illusion [RM3]

*1994*
CHALLENGER SERIES
Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game, The [1106] [boxed set]

DRAGONLANCE
Classics Volume III [DLC3]

FORGOTTEN REALMS
Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast ("recommended")

PLANESCAPE
Deva Spark, The
In the Abyss
Well of Worlds, The

RAVENLOFT
Awakening, The
Howls in the Night
Masque of the Red Death and Other Tales [boxed set]

*1995*
Dancing Hut of Baba Yaga, The [S5]

PLANESCAPE
Fires of Dis

RAVENLOFT
Chilling Tales
Gothic Earth Gazetteer, The
Neither Man Nor Beast
When Black Roses Bloom

*1996*
Sages & Specialists (*)

DRAGONLANCE
Dragonlance Fifth Age: SAGA System [boxed set] ("recommended")
Heroes of Steel [boxed set] (*) ("recommended")
The Last Tower: The Legacy of Raistlin [boxed set]

PLANESCAPE
Doors to the Unknown
Something Wild

RAVENLOFT
A Guide to Transyvania
Bleak House: The Death of Rudolph Van Richten [boxed set]
Children of the Night: Vampires
Forged of Darkness

*1997*
Star of Kolhapur, The [RPGA]

DRAGONLANCE
Heroes of Defiance [boxed set]
Heroes of Hope [boxed set]
Heroes of Sorcery [boxed set]

FORGOTTEN REALMS
Castle Spulzeer ("got it")

PLANESCAPE ("both recommended")
Dead Gods
Great Modron March, The

RAVENLOFT
Children of the Night: Ghosts
The Forgotten Terror ("must have")

*1998 (TSR/WotC)*
DRAGONLANCE
A Saga Companion (*)
Bestiary, The
Citadel of Light [boxed set] (*)
Fate Deck
Seeds of Chaos (*)
Wings of Fury [boxed set]

PLANESCAPE
Faction War (not recommended")
Tales from the Infinite Staircase

FORGOTTEN REALMS
Dungeon Crawl: Hellgate Keep
For Duty & Deity
Kidnapped [RPGA]

RAVENLOFT
Servants of Darkness

*1999 (TSR/WotC)*
Crypt of the Smoke Dragon
Dungeons of Despair [DUNGEON Magazine anthology]
Eye of the Wyvern [11373]
Road to Danger [DUNGEON Magazine anthology]
Wand of Archeal [RPGA]
Warriors of the Gray Queen [IQ3] [InQuest]
Wrath of the Minotaur [11331]

DRAGONLANCE
Chaos Spawn (*)
Dragonlance Classics 15th Anniversary Edition (*)
Sylvan Veil, The (*)

FORGOTTEN REALMS
Accursed Tower, The (recommended")
Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark (at Wizard's)
Sea of Fallen Stars
Wyrmskull Throne

RAVENLOFT
Children of the Night: The Created

*2000 (WotC)*
DIABLO
Diablo II: The Awakening (*)

FORGOTTEN REALMS
Dungeon Crawl: The Dungeon of Death
Volo's Guide to Baldur's Gate II (*)


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## Freakohollik (Apr 14, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> *1993*
> GREYHAWK
> The City of Skulls [WGR6]



This is the only product on you're list that I'm familiar with this time. Anyway this is a great adventure. Some high level PCs are tasked with sneaking into the prison in Iuz's city and getting down to the bottom level and rescuing a war hero. How the PCs do this is the real challenge as fighting/killing the guards will get a lot of attention (the adventure has its own notoriety system for tracking this). If the PCs get too much attention, some really strong hit squads will go after them. The best strategies are things like charm, invisibility, other one use items, and roleplaying with some of the personalities in the prison. It's quite unique. I haven't run it so I don't know if the implementation holds up, but it's a great idea.


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## Southern Oracle (Apr 14, 2009)

Wildspace [SJA1]

This was the introductory adventure to Spelljammer, designed to ease players into the new setting by literally scooping them off their planet and out into Wildspace.  The main threat is the Eater of Worlds, a planet-sized machine built by the beholders to devour solar systems one planet at a time.  The heroes have to enter the machine and "disarm" it by defeating several interior components that have manifested as living creatures (thanks to magic).  The adventure introduces players to the process of spelljamming, the presence of the beholders as a major threat in Wildspace, ship-to-ship combat, and emphasizes the grand scale of the setting.

I've run the adventure, and I enjoyed it.  I've also integrated it into my current online Planescape game, but so far the heroes have not shown an interest in investigating the Eater of Worlds.  Of course, in "Wildspace" the heroes don't have much choice.


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## Southern Oracle (Apr 14, 2009)

PLANESCAPE
Hellbound: The Blood War [boxed set]

This Planescape adventure ironically ties into the Spelljammer campaign setting.  It seems that demons are working on chaosjammer ships, hoping to terrorize wildspace and the phlogiston as well as the material and outer planes themselves.  The boxed set can encompass an entire campaign, but one of the fundamental elements of the adventure results in a significant change to demon powers in the game (they lose the ability to teleport) and the creation of a new monster.  It would be difficult to ignore this aspect of the adventure and still have it feel cohesive, so run this one with care.


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## Southern Oracle (Apr 14, 2009)

*2000 (WotC)*
The Vortex of Madness and Other Planar Perils

Yet another planar adventure I've integrated into my online Planescape campaign!  While it has some rough spots, the overall adventure is entertaining.  It centers around the artifact called "The Machine of Lum the Mad" and its antithesis, "The Mighty Armor of Leuk-O."  The heroes stumble upon the Machine while traveling through the Astral Plane and get sucked into its influence.  The Machine has been trapped with Lum as its only companion for untold ages, and it wants back on the Material Plane.  The Machine sends the heroes on missions to obtain parts to repair it, as well as answer basic questions for it about life, sentience, and the meaning of existence.  I have the Machine lying in wait whenever the heroes in my game visit the Astral Plane...


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## Endur (Apr 14, 2009)

1999
Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff
One of the best of the return books.   This 2e adventure was later expanded into the basis for the 3e RPGA Living Geoff campaign.

Return to the Keep on the Borderlands
A pretty good 2e look at the 1e classic.  (the 1e version has the highest print run of any adventure).

2000
Fright at Tristor, the [RPGA]
A good adventure, especially considering it was very early in 3e.  Reminds me of a Judges Guild module in a way.  Not a typical linear Living Greyhawk adventure.  Only drawback to playing this in 2000/2001 was that it took Erik and SRM about six months to send the certs in the mail (the burden of mailing the certs persuaded them to drop the idea of certs).


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## Knightfall (Apr 14, 2009)

Endur said:


> 2000
> Fright at Tristor, the [RPGA]
> A good adventure, especially considering it was very early in 3e.  Reminds me of a Judges Guild module in a way.  Not a typical linear Living Greyhawk adventure.  Only drawback to playing this in 2000/2001 was that it took Erik and SRM about six months to send the certs in the mail (the burden of mailing the certs persuaded them to drop the idea of certs).



This is a 3e adventure? 

Doh!

That's what I get for not looking at the info on "The Acaeum" more closely.


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## sinecure (Apr 14, 2009)

*Pre-1993*
BATTLESYSTEM Fantasy Combat Supplement [1e] [red box version] (*) (CAN $25)
--This is pretty good, if you like mass combat systems.  As with everything here, best to look through it first to make sure it is something you will really use.

FORGOTTEN REALMS
The Bloodstone Lands [FR9]
--I thought this was was one of the best of the FR series.  Definitely worth a read.

ROLE AIDS [Mayfair Games]
Demons [1992]
Demons II [1993]
--Of the ROLE AIDS I owned at one time, these were probably the most evocative.  Green Ronin's early 3.x demon and devil supplements are in a similar way.  I guess it depends how much of any of it is "core" or not.  Still pretty cool.

GREYHAWK
The City of Skulls [WGR6]
--Isn't this supposed to be really valuable?  I'd check out ebay past and present sales. Amazon used book prices too (though they tend to run high).  If you like the 2E generation Greyhawk (post-Gygax stuff) this is well known as one of the best works.

*1996*
TOMES Adventure: The Rod of Seven Parts [boxed adventure] (*) (CAN $60)
---This promises so much more than it delivers.  And it is way overpriced at retail cost.  Which sounds like what they have it tagged for.

PLANESCAPE
Hellbound: The Blood War [boxed set]
---Isn't this one really valuable too?  Or at least pretty rare?

*1998 (TSR/WotC)*
A Paladin in Hell
---This is the classic 90's adventure that put Monte Cook on the map as an adventure designer.  It's okay in my book, but I would take a look, if I were you.

AL-QADIM
Reunion (*)
--All Al Qadim stuff is cool to me.  But that may just be me.  

GREYHAWK
Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff
Return to the Keep on the Borderlands
Return to White Plume Mountain
---These aren't bad Return To's.  The kind that were popular about 7-9 years ago with Return to ToEE and the like.  Mostly hit or miss though and you would want the originals to really get a comparison.  White Plume Mtn had the original updated for a download for 3.x on Wizards' site somewhere.


The rest of the lot are middling to poor in my opinion.  Much of it really depends on your own tastes, but nothing else really stands out.


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## Knightfall (Apr 14, 2009)

sinecure said:


> ROLE AIDS [Mayfair Games]
> Demons [1992]
> Demons II [1993]
> --Of the ROLE AIDS I owned at one time, these were probably the most evocative.  Green Ronin's early 3.x demon and devil supplements are in a similar way.  I guess it depends how much of any of it is "core" or not.  Still pretty cool.



I think WK has the first one but I'm not 100% sure. I'm going there tomorrow, so I'll take a look and see which Role Aids stuff is in the store.



sinecure said:


> GREYHAWK
> The City of Skulls [WGR6]
> --Isn't this supposed to be really valuable?  I'd check out ebay past and present sales. Amazon used book prices too (though they tend to run high).  If you like the 2E generation Greyhawk (post-Gygax stuff) this is well known as one of the best works.
> 
> ...



Your definitely right about the Hellbound box, but I'm not aware of any rarity regarding City of Skulls. Freakohollik's summary has me interested in it now, so I'll be keeping an eye out for it.

Note: Iuz the Evil, the accessory that goes along with City of Skulls, is already on my "To Get" List for Greyhawk.


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## Knightfall (Apr 14, 2009)

Endur said:


> 1999
> Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff
> One of the best of the return books.   This 2e adventure was later expanded into the basis for the 3e RPGA Living Geoff campaign.



How much about Geoff is included in the module?



Endur said:


> Return to the Keep on the Borderlands
> A pretty good 2e look at the 1e classic.  (the 1e version has the highest print run of any adventure).






sinecure said:


> GREYHAWK
> Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff
> Return to the Keep on the Borderlands
> Return to White Plume Mountain
> ---These aren't bad Return To's.  The kind that were popular about 7-9 years ago with Return to ToEE and the like.  Mostly hit or miss though and you would want the originals to really get a comparison.  White Plume Mtn had the original updated for a download for 3.x on Wizards' site somewhere.



Return to the Keep on the Borderlands is the one that interests me the most. While I have the White Plume Mountain 3.5 redux from Wizard's site, I'm not fond of how WotC forced the rules for Weapons of Legacy into the module. Therefore, the "Return to" version is getting some serious consideration.


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## Knightfall (Apr 14, 2009)

Southern Oracle said:


> *2000 (WotC)*
> The Vortex of Madness and Other Planar Perils
> 
> Yet another planar adventure I've integrated into my online Planescape campaign!  While it has some rough spots, the overall adventure is entertaining.  It centers around the artifact called "The Machine of Lum the Mad" and its antithesis, "The Mighty Armor of Leuk-O."  The heroes stumble upon the Machine while traveling through the Astral Plane and get sucked into its influence.  The Machine has been trapped with Lum as its only companion for untold ages, and it wants back on the Material Plane.  The Machine sends the heroes on missions to obtain parts to repair it, as well as answer basic questions for it about life, sentience, and the meaning of existence.  I have the Machine lying in wait whenever the heroes in my game visit the Astral Plane...



Interesting... the more I read about this book... the more I think I'll like it.


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

*NOTE*
I decided to run down to Whyte Knight with a written list of products from this thread and my "To Get" list on my collection thread (see sig). It was a scouting trip only. I won't be trading/buying there until tomorrow but I wanted to get a better feel for what is in the store at this moment and what some of the best stuff costs.

Therefore, I've updated my Master List with prices gathered at WK today. I added a lot of prices and a few more items of note that WK has in stock. I'm going to be updating my collection thread next. 
__________________________________________​
*For My Reference*

*Other Notable FR Stuff at WK that isn't on my "To Get" list... yet):* Menzoberranzan [boxed set] -> $85 (yikes!); Spellbound [boxed set] -> $40; Ninja Wars -> $20; Swords of the Iron Legion [I14] -> $10 (cool!); The Horde [boxed set] -> $30 (maybe); Ruins of Myth Drannor -> $55 (or $35 without monster comp.).

Plus...

*Old School Modules:* C4 To Find a King -> $10; C5 The Bane of Llywelyn -> $10; CM5 Mystery of the Snow Pearls -> $20; CM9 Legacy of Blood -> $5; DDA2 Legions of Thyatis -> $35; I4 Oasis of the White Palm -> $8; I8 Ravager of Time -> $20; IM2 The Wrath of Olympus -> $14; MV1 Midnight on Dagger Alley -> $16; S3 Expedition to the Barrier Peaks -> $10; U2 Danger at Dunwater -> $8; X7 The War Rafts of Kron -> $20 (ding, ding!); X9 The Savage Coast -> $35 (cool!).


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## VectorSigma (Apr 15, 2009)

I'd recommend 'City System' if it's a decent price.  It's tagged as a Realms product, but in reality it's a) general city-building advice and tips on running urban adventures, b) a handful of short fill-in urban scenarios, and c) papercraft buildings.  If the copy they've got used has the paper buildings in it and the price is pretty good, I'd say go for it.  I got tons of "general use" out of City System back in the day.

Although, if you're going to use the paper buildings, I'd consider scanning in the sheets for later reproduction in cardstock (eventually you'll need more buildings, right?).


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

VectorSigma said:


> I'd recommend 'City System' if it's a decent price.  It's tagged as a Realms product, but in reality it's a) general city-building advice and tips on running urban adventures, b) a handful of short fill-in urban scenarios, and c) papercraft buildings.  If the copy they've got used has the paper buildings in it and the price is pretty good, I'd say go for it.  I got tons of "general use" out of City System back in the day.
> 
> Although, if you're going to use the paper buildings, I'd consider scanning in the sheets for later reproduction in cardstock (eventually you'll need more buildings, right?).



Actually, I think you're thinking of Cities of Mystery...

Advanced Dungeons & Dragons Archive: Forgotten Realms: Cities of Mystery


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## M.L. Martin (Apr 15, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> *1994*
> CHALLENGER SERIES
> The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game [1106] [boxed set]




  This is a compact repackaging of the 1991 Big Black Box, with the Dragon Cards folded into the rulebook, IIRC.



> RAVENLOFT
> Masque of the Red Death and Other Tales [boxed set]




  This may be the most non-D&Dish product ever marketed under the (A)D&D label--a Ravenloft variant intended to recreate Victorian-era horror literature, with a dramatic revision of 2E that takes the Ravenloft rules and adds on a proficiency- and kit-centered character creation system and a toned-down magic system, along with world information, three adventures, and a set of villains both original and literary (including a unique take on Professor Moriarty -- as a 



Spoiler



rakshasa


).



> *1999 (TSR/WotC)*
> Campaign Option: Council of Wyrms Setting [?]
> [?] _How does this compare to the boxed set version?_




  I think it includes the Dragon Sage kit from DRAGON #206; otherwise, it's just the same content in a hardback form. (Remember, this was after the WotC takeover and the subsequent death of boxed sets.)



> DRAGONLANCE
> Dragonlance Classics 15th Anniversary Edition




  Every run of the DRAGONLANCE line ends (or nearly does--there were two products released after this one in the SAGA iteration) in a return to the beginning--the original DL1-14 adventures. This is a fairly substantial rework of the series, with 2E and SAGA System stats, and the same high points and general framework but a lot of differences--many locations and encounters are removed, and many have been added to either reduce the railroading somewhat and give alternate paths for the adventure, or just to throw in easter eggs touching on 15 years of DL history and lore. I haven't paid much attention to Sovereign Press's 3.5 reworks, but DLC15A is more compact than the originals, more story-focused and has what looks to be a _killer_ climax. I'd recommend using it as the foundation for someone who wants to run the DL campaign, adding in details from the original modules to taste. (Again, I don't know the SP 3.5 versions--I gave up on DL for a variety of reasons after the War of Souls and the 3.5 relaunch--so I can't compare them.)


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## The Ghost (Apr 15, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> *1999 (TSR/WotC)*
> GREYHAWK
> Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff




The original "G" series (G1-2-3) is, in my humble opinion, one of the best adventures ever produced for Dungeons and Dragons. This product contains those adventures and then expands it to include Part Two: The Liberation of Geoff. The second part of the module details many areas of Geoff, includes histories on the towns as well as their current state. It includes a handful of dungeons that are, for the most part, interesting. The only problem is that it can become somewhat monotonous when the vast majority of things you fight are ogres, trolls, and giants. 

If you do not own the original "G" series, then this is definitely a pick-up. If you do own the original "G" series, then, well... I would still buy it. But, then again, I am a big Greyhawk fan.


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## Pramas (Apr 15, 2009)

Some trivia for you. Vortex of Madness' original title was Planar Sites and it was meant to be part of the same series as Castle Sites and City Sites. When I wrote it originally, the sites were not linked. After I turned over the manuscript, the brand people (for whatever reason) decided it would sell better as an adventure, so the developer used the Vortex of Madness to link all the sites and provide an overarching story. Hence the final form and title of the book.


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

Matthew L. Martin said:


> Every run of the DRAGONLANCE line ends (or nearly does--there were two products released after this one in the SAGA iteration) in a return to the beginning--the original DL1-14 adventures. This is a fairly substantial rework of the series, with 2E and SAGA System stats, and the same high points and general framework but a lot of differences--many locations and encounters are removed, and many have been added to either reduce the railroading somewhat and give alternate paths for the adventure, or just to throw in easter eggs touching on 15 years of DL history and lore. I haven't paid much attention to Sovereign Press's 3.5 reworks, but DLC15A is more compact than the originals, more story-focused and has what looks to be a _killer_ climax. I'd recommend using it as the foundation for someone who wants to run the DL campaign, adding in details from the original modules to taste. (Again, I don't know the SP 3.5 versions--I gave up on DL for a variety of reasons after the War of Souls and the 3.5 relaunch--so I can't compare them.)



Interesting... this sounds like a good alternative to the original modules. I wasn't looking forward to trying to collect all those old modules. 

Whoa... I just had a feeling of deja vu. I feel like I've asked about this module before but it can't be since I only discovered its existance the other day in the Dragonlance section of the TSR Archive. Weird.


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

The Ghost said:


> The original "G" series (G1-2-3) is, in my humble opinion, one of the best adventures ever produced for Dungeons and Dragons. This product contains those adventures and then expands it to include Part Two: The Liberation of Geoff. The second part of the module details many areas of Geoff, includes histories on the towns as well as their current state. It includes a handful of dungeons that are, for the most part, interesting. The only problem is that it can become somewhat monotonous when the vast majority of things you fight are ogres, trolls, and giants.
> 
> If you do not own the original "G" series, then this is definitely a pick-up. If you do own the original "G" series, then, well... I would still buy it. But, then again, I am a big Greyhawk fan.



Cool. I'm definitely going to add this adventure to my Greyhawk 2e "To Get" List. I'd prefer it over the origial module since it has the original text included in it.


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

Pramas said:


> Some trivia for you. Vortex of Madness' original title was Planar Sites and it was meant to be part of the same series as Castle Sites and City Sites. When I wrote it originally, the sites were not linked. After I turned over the manuscript, the brand people (for whatever reason) decided it would sell better as an adventure, so the developer used the Vortex of Madness to link all the sites and provide an overarching story. Hence the final form and title of the book.



Thanks for the info, Chris. A good tidbit of history there. Do you have any history tidbits to share regarding these two books?

A Guide to Hell (*)
Apocalypse Stone, The
*FYI... I have this one. It's really good.


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

Matthew L. Martin said:


> This is a compact repackaging of the 1991 Big Black Box, with the Dragon Cards folded into the rulebook, IIRC.



How's it differ from the original D&D Basic Set? I already have that boxed set, so I'm curious if there is any real difference between the two boxes.


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## Knightfall (Apr 15, 2009)

Another Great Day Today!

Well, I got three older boxed sets today...

DARK SUN The Ivory Triangle
FORGOTTEN REALMS Campaign Set
MAZTICA Campaign Set
I managed this through the trading away of old novels [mine and my sister's (*)] and some RPG books and references that never really grabbed me or weren't in good enough condition (i.e. the worn out innards of a WoG box). I flipped two old school modules (EX1 and EX2) and a Paladium book (called Old Ones) that I traded for simply to use as trade bait at Whyte Knight. I "owned" it for less than an hour. 

It was another great day of wheeling and dealing! 

I'll be doing more on Friday too. I have come into possession of some novels (they were free) that I hope to be able to sell/trade away to one of the Wee Book Inn's here in Edmonton. If I'm lucky, I'll have more trade bait books to trade at WK.

Anyway, I just thought I'd share.

Cheers!

KF

*My sister said I could keep the money/trade value. She just wanted her books gone.

p.s. RE: More opinions on my Master List are always welcome.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 16, 2009)

I forgot to mention...

The owner of WK pointed out something cool to me today. He showed me something he had under the glass counter.

WK has a copy of Eldritch Wizardry: Supplement III for CAN $45!!! 

I'm SOOOO getting that when I have money again.


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## amethal (Apr 16, 2009)

*Birthright*

Cities of the Sun and Rjurik Highlands are gazeteers of other regions of the Birthright map, in the same way that the Birthright boxed set included a gazeteer of the original region (whose name escapes me).

Cities of the Sun is the "Arabian" part, whereas the Highlands are much wilder and uncivilised.

I'm fairly sure Cities of the Sun includes naval combat rules.

Both products are very pretty.


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## meomwt (Apr 16, 2009)

*Rary the Traitor*

I've got it, and, to be honest, it's fairly uninspired. The map is colourful, but lacks a scale or a grid , the writing is pedestrian, and there isn't much about Rary, Robilar, _et al_ at all. 

Most of the book centres on Father Eye and his duergar (hhiding on the edges of The Bright Desert) and the Scorpion Men living in the desert (remnant of a powerful civilisation, and hiding an artifact Rary is after). 

Rary's tower is mapped, though the map of one level is missing. 

It's pre-Sergeant Greyhawk, and lacks the energy and innovation of his _From the Ashes_ re-invention. One for Greyhawk completists  only, I fear.


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## amethal (Apr 16, 2009)

*Journey to the Rock*

I used to have Journey to the Rock, a very long time ago.

According to my B1-9 In Search of Adventure PDF (not available for sale at all good on-line stores), it was a tournament adventure with 3 possible ways to get to the Rock in question. 

The PCs are recruited by a mysterious wizard, and asked to travel to the Rock and bring back its secret. No one knows what the secret is.

The condensed version in B1-9 gives the PCs only one way to get to the Rock, but fortunately they chose my favourite way. Thus PCs get to encounter a bunch of gnomes pulling a ship on rollers (in search of an ocean, naturally).

There is also an encounter with some chameleon men, and other weirdness. It concentrates on puzzle solving and role-playing rather than combat.

When they arrive at the Rock there is one more challenge, and hopefully they can put what they (the players, not the characters) learned on the journey to good use.

B1-9 doesn't have a picture of the damsel in distress they meet at the end, but (assuming I'm not getting it confused with something else) it was right up there with the female cleric in the Basic Set in the attractiveness stakes (and wearing quite a bit less clothing).


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## Knightfall (Apr 16, 2009)

meomwt said:


> I've got it, and, to be honest, it's fairly uninspired. The map is colourful, but lacks a scale or a grid , the writing is pedestrian, and there isn't much about Rary, Robilar, _et al_ at all.
> 
> Most of the book centres on Father Eye and his duergar (hhiding on the edges of The Bright Desert) and the Scorpion Men living in the desert (remnant of a powerful civilisation, and hiding an artifact Rary is after).
> 
> ...



Hmm, it doesn't sound like it's a book I'd want.

I knew about the missing map, which is available on WotC's web site, but I figured this book was the "best" resource regarding Rary and his minions.

And, I love From the Ashes! It's one of my favorite Greyhawk products. Now, if I could just find an intact version of The City of Greyhawk boxed set, I'll be prime.


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## Knightfall (Apr 16, 2009)

amethal said:


> Cities of the Sun and Rjurik Highlands are gazeteers of other regions of the Birthright map, in the same way that the Birthright boxed set included a gazeteer of the original region (whose name escapes me).
> 
> Cities of the Sun is the "Arabian" part, whereas the Highlands are much wilder and uncivilised.
> 
> ...



Birthright stuff makes me nervous. I remember liking the several of the novels when it came out, but I felt the RPG books were uninspired. I stopped buying Birthright books early on.

Still, I like Arabian-based RPG material, so I could see getting Cities in the Sun to incorporate into my homebrewed version of Land of Fate.

Hmm... possibilities.


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## Knightfall (Apr 16, 2009)

amethal said:


> I used to have Journey to the Rock, a very long time ago.
> 
> According to my B1-9 In Search of Adventure PDF (not available for sale at all good on-line stores), it was a tournament adventure with 3 possible ways to get to the Rock in question.
> 
> ...



Thanks for the overview, amethal. Very informative. 

I have/had the option of getting B1-9, but I think I'd rather have the individual modules for the B Series.


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## Knightfall (Apr 16, 2009)

*Added to the list:* Arena of Thyatis [DDA1]; Earthshaker! [CM4]; Dark and Hidden Ways [2019S]; Descent into the Depths of the Earth [D1-2]; Legions of Thyatis [DDA2]; Midnight on Dagger Alley [MV1]; The Bane of Llywelyn [C5]; The Endless Stair [CM8]; The Lost Island of Castanamir [C3]; To Find a King [C4]; Warriors of the Gray Queen [IQ3] [InQuest (1999)]; Wild Things [2020S].

*EDIT:* I also reorganized and added to the Role Aids listings. Some of that stuff looks really cool.


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## Sagawork_Studios (Apr 17, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> ROLE AIDS [Mayfair Games]
> Lich Lords [1985]




I have this one, along with a few other; Rary the Traitor, Country Sites (somewhere...) Return to the Keep on the Borderlands (again, somewhere) and maybe some others.  I used to own Nightmare Keep, Bloodstone Lands but I gave them away to a friend and never saw them again.  Curses.

So without much further ado:  LICH LORDS




The module is writtten by Lynn Sellers and the cover art is by Frank Frazetta.  The module is 32 pages long.  It mentions that this is for 6-8 characters (six to eight?!? who's group has eight players?) of Skill level 12 to 16.

Right on the bat, this is our first exposure to MAYFAIR ROLE AIDS nomenclature; Skill Level is your Character level.  There is a glossary of terms printed inside the back cover, detailing standard abbreviations, however it is left to the reader to find the relationship of statistics between MAYFAIR GAMES and TSR related products.  (Incidentally, the cover proudly exclaims 'ADVANCED DUNGEONS & DRAGONS is a registered trademark of TSR Inc.  This use of TSR's trademark by Mayfair Games is *not* approved by TSR.' (empasis mine)

So back to the stats for a second; a lot of it is easily recognisable (THACO as opposed to THAC0 is a good example, ST is STR, IT is INT, etc.) however some will baffle the casual reader:



HTK - Hits to Kill - equates to Hit Points
IN - Insight - equates to Wisdom
SM - Stamina - equates to Constitution
AP - Appearance - equates to Charisma.
Okay, now that I have that out of the road, back over to the front cover;  it details rules for *Wishes*, *High Level Magic* and *Liches*.  Further investigation reveals that *High Level Magic* is a half-page devoted to two seriously broken spells and the *Wishes *section is another half page on examples of Wishes*, *of which most seem reasonable, if a bit tame. As a DM, I would have litte reservation granting most of these.  Skipping over the Pregen characters, a player handout and the introduction to the adventure we get to the section on Liches.

Obviously, the adventure itself centres around a group of 5 Lich Lords who have awoken and seek to conquer the world from the buried northern City of OOL.  The section on Liches deals with a paragraph on how to roleplay a Lich Lord then moves onto describing the Pentacate (as the module refer to the 5 Lich Lords as) in paragraph format.  This is required reading for the module itself as it deals with some of the Liches 



Spoiler



betraying their leader, Mortebus in various ways and forms


.  Personally, I found this section rather convoluted but there are some good ideas there to expand upon.  Ultimately it gives the feel that the adventure is a little railroad-y.

The last section on the Liches details their statistics; each Lich is given two sets of stats; one in a 'Weakened State' and 'Normal State' The weakened state represents the liches without the power of their (spoiler)



Spoiler



Crowns of Eternal Night.  The Crowns themselves appear to be only incidental plot devices, not artifacts as I had hoped, so that was a minor disappointment.


. 

Just a word on the stats of the Pentacate, if one was to run this adventure using AD&D or OSRIC, or even Castles and Crusades, I would certainly recommend the DM rebuild each Lich from the ground up; Mortebus, the leader of the Pentacate is my case in point; Mortebus is listed as a (spoiler)



Spoiler



Level 25 Magic User in his weakened state and as a Level 25/15 Magic User Cleric in his normal state (along with access to 5 Wishes!).


  Given that the adventure is rated for level 12-16 Player Characters. I dearly believe that this encounter alone is a TPK.

In the centre of the module, you are treated to an A3 double-sided map made of cardstock.  One side details the overland trek from the City of Saybalod to Ool in the north, the other side details the dungeons of Ool itself, along with a small cutaway diagram how Ool is organised.  My gripe is that because it is double sided, players wanting to view the overland map deftly prevents the DM from accessing the Ool maps.  No small deal to photocopy them ,but the trust issues abound just by having the DM maps printed on the other side. No too much for me and will make my head explode.  The players will have to make do with a B+W photocopy of the Overland map.

The overland map works hand-in-hand with the area encounters within the first part of the adventure.  Each area, (such as Tanglewood, Fogdrop, etc, have a number (either 1, 2 or 3) of keyed encounters which may occur on the roll of a die, whereas other areas have sequential encounters that _will _occur if the PCs enter the area.  Another factor is time 



Spoiler



which deals with the Crowns of Eternal Night and the countdown their activation - or in game terms, the usage of the Normal Stats for the Liches


.  There are four timed encounters that may occur if the PCs dally too long.

On the plot, the PCs are tasked with (spoilers) 



Spoiler



destroying the Pentacate.  Along the way, they will meet several allies who will insist that the players look for a holy sword that once belonged to a paladin who was instrumental in defeating the Pentacate the first time around.  Regardless if the PCs decide to trek after the sword, they will be treated to some encounters with agents of the Pentacate, as well as one of the Pentacate himself before the final showdown in Ool.  For me, this worked surprisingly well as it set up a number of memorable moments with these villains.  at the time, I was reminded of being in the Dragonlance setting in terms of story arc. I had a small issue with the holy sword (Spellbane), being +5 for a Paladin, but +2 for anyone else.  Even though it was a holy sword, it still had a capricious nature and on a roll of 01 or 02 on d00, meant that the sword would not fight for you, which to me seemed against the very nature of the swords purpose.  Personally, I would have liked to see a more generic weapon fit for any user. The impression I get is that any prospective party needs a Paladin to finish the adventure successfully; something that does not sit well with me.  Still, it is not a big issue to change it.



The City of Ool itself is dark and atmospheric, however some encounters seemed a little arbitrary and others needed more explanation, such as 



Spoiler



why would demons, daemons and devils be in the same area together? And Theodros the Death Kn..er Soldier -- totally underused, in my opinion.



It is also of worth to note that there are a few format issues as well; the magical items are not italicized and there is some DM information whcih has been mistakenly formatted as read aloud text (Sections 45 and 55 spring to mind). On a positive note, I found the overland sections done well and the few internal illustrations captured the feel of what Lich Lords is about.

As a collector of esoteric...things, I bought it after having been a player who got through it (though my recollection of events is markedly different to the printed version) and since then, I have ninjaed bits and pieces over time; a name here, an encounter there.  When i played it, the feeling of a coming apocalypse worked for me.  This would serve as a great finale to a campaign after it had some work done on the stats and the PC aides were spread out a bit further. It is hard to be objective about something that is subjective for me.  I like it as I have fond memories of having played it, but as a DM, I'd probably pan it because of the prep work that needed to be done.

It would be good for a one-off/one-nighter, provided the DM is willing to do the groundwork for it.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 18, 2009)

Sagawork_Studios said:


> I have this one, along with a few other; Rary the Traitor, Country Sites (somewhere...) Return to the Keep on the Borderlands (again, somewhere) and maybe some others.  I used to own Nightmare Keep, Bloodstone Lands but I gave them away to a friend and never saw them again.  Curses.
> 
> So without much further ado:  LICH LORDS
> 
> ...



Wow. Thanks for the excellent review. If you feel like doing a review on Return to the Keep on the Borderlands, I'd like to hear your opinions on that one (if you can find your copy).


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## tylerthehobo (Apr 18, 2009)

*Castle Caldwell and Beyond [B9]*

B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond was actually the first module I got as a kid, along with a copy of the red box, the year it came out.  It had this lizardman on the cover, and I think there was a damsel in distress.  The cover art was pure Larry Elmore, if I remember.

It was an episodic/sequential adventure wherein the party gets hired by a local businessman to clear out the castle he has recently bought.  Either the deceased owner of the estate or the businessman was named Clifton Caldwell, a nod to a d&d artist whose last name was Caldwell.

The first level of the dungeon included fighting some wolves and stirges, and there was a magical statue.  Classic OD&D stuff.  The second level of the dungeon was a bit more complex and included the need for the party to read a riddle aloud, and the riddle itself when read aloud was a terrible pun that I still remember to this day.  

Interestingly, the contents, which were kind of scattered and episodic to begin with (albeit a ton of fun - I've run this mod about 12 times over the years - no exaggeration) ended up being adapted into the B1-9 "In Search of Adventure" super module, as one of the kick off points for the campaign across the then released Grand Duchy of Karameikos setting.  The re-release didn't alter the module, but by making it part of a grander scheme, it removed some of the nostalgia that I have for what a simple but effective standalone intro mod it was.  I was 5 when I got it, and it still holds some charm 25+ years later.

If you can still grab this, get it!


----------



## rounser (Apr 18, 2009)

> a terrible pun that I still remember to this day.



OWAH
TAGOO
S..<cough cough cough>

Right.  There.  I said the words.  I'll be going, now.  Bye.


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## Plissken (Apr 18, 2009)

Arena of Thyatis [DDA1]

I recently acquired this one. I would recommend getting it. I've skimmed over it a few times. The PCs get involved with a corrupt senator, somehow become gladiators, must make their way through some dungeon to pass a test, escape from the city they are in. It was designed for DM's who have experience. There are no "flavor text" boxes. Much of the city is detailed and the adventure itself is setup so that a DM can edit it easily.

I would recommend adding it to your collection.


----------



## Plissken (Apr 18, 2009)

The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game [1106] [boxed set] (unsure)

I just recently purchased and will have it on Tuesday. I'll get back to you on it.

*Forgotten Realms - The Accursed Tower

DEFINITELY get this one if you can acquire it. A great adventure. The PCs are tasked with finding a journal and must travel around the Icewind Dale region to find it. They meet up with NPCs like Drizzt and Regis and help them along the way but don't worry. They don't outshine the PCs. They are just guides to help give them a little push.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 18, 2009)

Plissken said:


> Arena of Thyatis [DDA1]
> 
> I recently acquired this one. I would recommend getting it. I've skimmed over it a few times. The PCs get involved with a corrupt senator, somehow become gladiators, must make their way through some dungeon to pass a test, escape from the city they are in. It was designed for DM's who have experience. There are no "flavor text" boxes. Much of the city is detailed and the adventure itself is setup so that a DM can edit it easily.
> 
> I would recommend adding it to your collection.



Thanks for the advice. Both of the DDA modules really interest me since I've decided that I want to re-acquire the Dawn of the Emperors boxed set.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 18, 2009)

Plissken said:


> The Classic Dungeons & Dragons Game [1106] [boxed set] (unsure)
> 
> I just recently purchased and will have it on Tuesday. I'll get back to you on it.



Cool. 

How much did it cost you, if you don't mind me asking? I want to know what to expect pricewise should I find it.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 18, 2009)

tylerthehobo said:


> B9 Castle Caldwell and Beyond was actually the first module I got as a kid, along with a copy of the red box, the year it came out.  It had this lizardman on the cover, and I think there was a damsel in distress.  The cover art was pure Larry Elmore, if I remember.




You are correct...






Castle Caldwell and Beyond​


tylerthehobo said:


> It was an episodic/sequential adventure wherein the party gets hired by a local businessman to clear out the castle he has recently bought.  Either the deceased owner of the estate or the businessman was named Clifton Caldwell, a nod to a d&d artist whose last name was Caldwell.



I wondered if that was the case. (The Acaeum doesn't have any background on this moduels history.)



tylerthehobo said:


> The first level of the dungeon included fighting some wolves and stirges, and there was a magical statue.  Classic OD&D stuff.  The second level of the dungeon was a bit more complex and included the need for the party to read a riddle aloud, and the riddle itself when read aloud was a terrible pun that I still remember to this day.
> 
> Interestingly, the contents, which were kind of scattered and episodic to begin with (albeit a ton of fun - I've run this mod about 12 times over the years - no exaggeration) ended up being adapted into the B1-9 "In Search of Adventure" super module, as one of the kick off points for the campaign across the then released Grand Duchy of Karameikos setting.  The re-release didn't alter the module, but by making it part of a grander scheme, it removed some of the nostalgia that I have for what a simple but effective standalone intro mod it was.  I was 5 when I got it, and it still holds some charm 25+ years later.
> 
> If you can still grab this, get it!



Well, it's not first on my list, but I'll consider it like I do all the old school modules I come across. Thanks for the overview!


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## Knightfall (Apr 19, 2009)

Plissken said:


> Forgotten Realms - The Accursed Tower
> 
> DEFINITELY get this one if you can acquire it. A great adventure. The PCs are tasked with finding a journal and must travel around the Icewind Dale region to find it. They meet up with NPCs like Drizzt and Regis and help them along the way but don't worry. They don't outshine the PCs. They are just guides to help give them a little push.



Hmm... It sounds very integrated into FR's canon. How well do you think it would work in another campaign setting?


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## tylerthehobo (Apr 19, 2009)

The precursor of "Klaatu, Varata...Nikt(coughcough)," eh?


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## Knightfall (Apr 19, 2009)

*More images*

*Forgotten Realms Campaign Set*​


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## Knightfall (Apr 19, 2009)

tylerthehobo said:


> The precursor of "Klaatu, Varata...Nikt(coughcough)," eh?



Heh.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 19, 2009)

What can people tell me about this module? I've already added it to my "to get" list, but I'm still unsure. The Conan modules aren't very good, so I'm wondering if this one is better than those?






How bad/good is it? How rare is it? That sort of thing...


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## Knightfall (Apr 20, 2009)

It was Trade Day Today!

I went to a local used book store and traded away some non-gaming books of mine for two used game-based books. The first one, I had once before...






The second one I traded for to use as trade bait at Whyte Knight. How rare is this Palladium book?






I received CAN $22 in trade value for my books. The Dragonlance book was CAN $12 and the Palladium book was CAN $10. (No tax.)

Cheers!

KF


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## Knightfall (Apr 20, 2009)

Here's a better picture of the two books together...


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## Croesus (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> GREYHAWK
> _Fright at Tristor, the [RPGA]_ (added to my Greyhawk 3e "to get" list)




If you email me your mailing address, I'll mail you a clean copy - no charge. 

sirwhiskers @ kc.rr.com


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Croesus said:


> If you email me your mailing address, I'll mail you a clean copy - no charge.
> 
> sirwhiskers @ kc.rr.com



Cool. That's above and beyond.


----------



## Wereserpent (Apr 21, 2009)

It is always cool to find rare old stuff, is it not?

I do not know if anything you have there is rare, but I think you know what I mean.


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## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> What can people tell me about this module? I've already added it to my "to get" list, but I'm still unsure. The Conan modules aren't very good, so I'm wondering if this one is better than those?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I have no idea how rare it is.  I found it to be worse then the Conan ones.  I imagine it might be worth something because it is Red Sonja, but I'm just guessing there.


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Galeros said:


> It is always cool to find rare old stuff, is it not?



It is.



Galeros said:


> I do not know if anything you have there is rare, but I think you know what I mean.



I do. Rarity also has a lot to do where a person lives. I'm sure there are old gaming books kicking around my neck of the wood that are next to impossible to find elsewhere.

Rarity depends on your point of view as well as the market.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> The second one I traded for to use as trade bait at Whyte Knight. How rare is this Palladium book?





That's first edition Palladium Fantasy.  I don't think it is rare, and I'm not sure if it is sought after.  On Amazon I can buy one used for $5 and new for $6 and that includes shipping.    The second edition version of the game I have usually seen as the preferred game.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> I have no idea how rare it is.  I found it to be worse then the Conan ones.  I imagine it might be worth something because it is Red Sonja, but I'm just guessing there.



Well, I do know that The Acaeum lists it as being moderately valuable. However, that could have more to do with the cover image. 

I think it would be a fun module to have a copy of. Plus, while the Conan modules aways seem to be available, I had never heard of the Red Sonja module until I discovered The Acaeum web site.

That makes me think it's tougher to find and worth more to own.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> That makes me think it's tougher to find and worth more to own.




Judging just on the few asking prices I find in a quick search it does seem to be worth at least more then most of the older modules.  I know it is rare, I've only seen it for sale at places like Origins and Gen Con.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> That's first edition Palladium Fantasy.  I don't think it is rare, and I'm not sure if it is sought after.  On Amazon I can buy one used for $5 and new for $6 and that includes shipping.    The second edition version of the game I have usually seen as the preferred game.



Good to know. I would have hated to give up something really rare, that I didn't know about, for very little. (I thought "Revised Edition" might have meant 2nd or 3rd Edition, but since I don't know anything about Palladium books, I didn't really know.)

BTW... How many versions of Palladium Fantasy have there been? Or is more complicated than that? I ask because I often see Palladium books for sale at used book stores and I have no idea what they're worth.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> Judging just on the few asking prices I find in a quick search it does seem to be worth at least more then most of the older modules.  I know it is rare, I've only seen it for sale at places like Origins and Gen Con.



Hmm... it sounds like it is something I'd want, just to have it. Thanks for the advice, Crothian. I appreciate your input.


----------



## tylerthehobo (Apr 21, 2009)

My understanding from recent threads about Palladium is that the 1st edition was more fantasy oriented and its own animal, while the second edition was basically the first set updated to rules more in line with those used by Rifts and other palladium products.  My brother had the black covered palladium book when we were kids, and I believe the content is identical to the color covered edition now available on drivethrurpg.com.  It's a great game and worth checking out and playing.

as to the conan ad&d mods and red sonja, yeah...  'nuff said.  

Can't speak to value of the products outside comparable prices you'd find on ebay, craigslist or amazon, but the black-and-red covered palladium book is well worth keeping and playing, and valuable in that sense.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> BTW... How many versions of Palladium Fantasy have there been? Or is more complicated than that? I ask because I often see Palladium books for sale at used book stores and I have no idea what they're worth.




My guess is that few Palladium books would be worth more then cover price.  Palladium did lots of prints runs on their books so it was rare to see things go out of print.  TMNT line might be worth something these days as they lost the license.  Thinking back there is a first printing of Palladium Fantasy that includes some politically incorrect items on their insanity chart so it might be worth something because of that, the table was altered in later editions of the book.  

Palladium did some limited run hardbound books that might be collectors item.  All the normal run stuff they do is soft bound.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

tylerthehobo said:


> My understanding from recent threads about Palladium is that the 1st edition was more fantasy oriented and its own animal, while the second edition was basically the first set updated to rules more in line with those used by Rifts and other palladium products.  My brother had the black covered palladium book when we were kids, and I believe the content is identical to the color covered edition now available on drivethrurpg.com.  It's a great game and worth checking out and playing.



So, it's a completely different monster then? Hmm... 



tylerthehobo said:


> as to the conan ad&d mods and red sonja, yeah...  'nuff said.



Heh. 



tylerthehobo said:


> Can't speak to value of the products outside comparable prices you'd find on ebay, craigslist or amazon, but the black-and-red covered palladium book is well worth keeping and playing, and valuable in that sense.



Well, I might take a look at it, but I don't think it will grab me. I've looked at Palladium books before, and I simply find them too complex and a little confusing.

More than likely the next time I "trade" at WK, I'll trade it away for something related to 1e or 2e D&D.

I'm already putting together my next group of "trade bait" books and comics, which includes a copy of 1e Legends & Lore (I have two copies right now), the Palladium book, some TSR novels, and two Conan comics based on the movies. I'm hoping to scrounge up some more stuff from Wee Book Inn through trade of other books that WK wouldn't be interested in.

I'm definitely keeping The History of Dragonlance book, however. I've already started re-reading it. I'm glad I have a copy again.


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## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> So, it's a completely different monster then? Hmm...




The setting stayed the same the rules changed to be more like what they have in their other game lines.  For creativity, Palladium Fantasy and its many books are great.  If you want ideas the books Bill Coffin write have more ideas per page then most any other gaming product I can think of.  It is a very good setting.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> My guess is that few Palladium books would be worth more then cover price.  Palladium did lots of prints runs on their books so it was rare to see things go out of print.



That might be why there are so many Palladium books in used book stores around here. 



Crothian said:


> TMNT line might be worth something these days as they lost the license.



Actually, if i found one of those books, I'd probably keep them. I love TMNT!



Crothian said:


> Thinking back there is a first printing of Palladium Fantasy that includes some politically incorrect items on their insanity chart so it might be worth something because of that, the table was altered in later editions of the book.



Well, I looked in my copy and I have to say that those tables are pretty politically incorrect... for the 80's that is. Some of it would be inappropriate now too. 

FYI... my copy says Second Printing 1984.



Crothian said:


> Palladium did some limited run hardbound books that might be collectors item.  All the normal run stuff they do is soft bound.



Hmm... now that's interesting. I've definitely never seen a hardbound Palladium book. Of course, I wasn't really looking for one... so I might have missed such a book. I'll have to keep an eye out for that.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> The setting stayed the same the rules changed to be more like what they have in their other game lines.  For creativity, Palladium Fantasy and its many books are great.  If you want ideas the books Bill Coffin write have more ideas per page then most any other gaming product I can think of.  It is a very good setting.



Looking him up on the Pen & Paper web site right now.


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## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Well, I looked in my copy and I have to say that those tables are pretty politically incorrect... for the 80's that is. Some of it would be inappropriate now too.
> 
> FYI... my copy says Second Printing 1984.




The one I'm thinking of has a Sexual Deviation table.  I found a reference on line that has it in the third printing, so it could be in yours.


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## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Looking him up on the Pen & Paper web site right now.




Of his Palladium Fantasy books Baalgor Wastelands, and The Library of Bletherad are my favorite.  

There was an NPC inspired by me that ended up on the cutting room floor of  Mount Nimro, Kingdom of Giants.  That information serves no purpose in this thread other then I really wanted to mention it.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> The one I'm thinking of has a Sexual Deviation table.  I found a reference on line that has it in the third printing, so it could be in yours.



It is.


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## Wereserpent (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> It is.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> It is.




That's a piece of gaming history.  The type of thing that gets passed down from father to son.


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> Of his Palladium Fantasy books Baalgor Wastelands, and The Library of Bletherad are my favorite.



Well, Pen & Paper isn't complete. Bill Coffin actually posted on it and listed his other books...



			
				Bill Coffin on Pen & Paper said:
			
		

> Bill Coffin (May 26, 2004 - 1:44 PM CDT):
> Hi! Great site. On my bio, you forgot to include my credits for The Western Empire, The Baalgor Wastelands, Mount Nimro, the Library of Bletherad, Systems Failure, the Anvil Galaxy, and one or two others, I think. You might want to go to Palladium's web site for a full listing. Thanks!



Pen & Paper really needs an update!

What are the two books, that you mentioned, about? What's the story behind those books? Also... Do you know if Coffin has written anything for any other companies?



Crothian said:


> There was an NPC inspired by me that ended up on the cutting room floor of  Mount Nimro, Kingdom of Giants.  That information serves no purpose in this thread other then I really wanted to mention it.



Heh.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> That's a piece of gaming history.  The type of thing that gets passed down from father to son.



Heh! Heh! 

Hmm... 

Now I'm wondering about whether or not I'll keep it or trade it. Decisions, Decisions!


----------



## Wereserpent (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Actually, if i found one of those books, I'd probably keep them. I love TMNT!




Man, I actually found some old TMNT stuff at a Used Book Store once. Never bought it though. I wonder if I should be kicking myself right now.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> What are the two books, that you mentioned, about? What's the story behind those books? Also... Do you know if Coffin has written anything for any other companies?




He was doing something for West End Games but that fell fklat.  The book I think was shopped around and may have been picked up by another company.  I haven't heard anything to confirm that nor have I heard anything about it in months.

Baalgor Wastelands is literally, a giant wasteland.  But there are literally a thousand little adventurer ideas in it.  I talked to Bill Coffin at a connection about it and one of his goals was to place as many little hooks in the book as possible.  

The Library of Bletherad is a fantasy version of the library of Alexandria.  There are lots of neat things that cover all sorts of things because the library is a collection of information from all over the Palladium world.  

Both books do have a good amount of game mechanics in them, so they are not as system clear as say GURPS source books are.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Galeros said:


> Man, I actually found some old TMNT stuff at a Used Book Store once. Never bought it though. I wonder if I should be kicking myself right now.




There is a used book store near me that has a used copy of TMNT and they have it for $50 which is saying something since I tend to get gaming stuff there for great prices.  I found a Planscape Planes of Chaos for 8$ just last year.


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Galeros said:


> Man, I actually found some old TMNT stuff at a Used Book Store once. Never bought it though. I wonder if I should be kicking myself right now.



I would be.  



Crothian said:


> There is a used book store near me that has a used copy of TMNT and they have it for $50 which is saying something since I tend to get gaming stuff there for great prices.



Wow, that's a lot. I don't think I'd spend that much for it.



Crothian said:


> I found a Planscape Planes of Chaos for 8$ just last year.



Lucky! 

Planescape stuff is really hard to find in my area. Whyte Knight has a few books, but I've ended up buying other things instead. The store has both Planescape MC 1 and MC 2 for CAN $25 each.


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> The Library of Bletherad is a fantasy version of the library of Alexandria.  There are lots of neat things that cover all sorts of things because the library is a collection of information from all over the Palladium world.



Now that sounds interesting.


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## Crothian (Apr 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Planescape stuff is really hard to find in my area. Whyte Knight has a few books, but I've ended up buying other things instead. The store has both Planescape MC 1 and MC 2 for CAN $25 each.




It is rare here too.  I pick up the occasional book I find at used stores but I imagine I average finding maybe one a year.


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Crothian said:


> It is rare here too.  I pick up the occasional book I find at used stores but I imagine I average finding maybe one a year.



I think WK has a couple of other Planescape references, at the moment, that aren't on my "to get" list; however, none of those include any of the boxed sets, which I'm hesitant to get again -- not because they aren't good references but because they'd be really expensive.

The owner of WK told me that if he get in a copy of Hellbound that he'd price it at CAN $90. That would be too expensive for me. I'd rather have two or three other 2e boxed sets for that price.

Right now, the boxed set I really want is "The Ruins of Undermountain." I've incorporated both Undermountain and Waterdeep into my homebrewed world, and I want that boxed set to go along with the 3e Expedition to Undermountain hardcover.


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## Knightfall (Apr 21, 2009)

Another photo of some "trade bait" I'm going to use to acquire some of the older D&D products I want. The owner of WK says he wants Conan stuff, so I'm going to include these two comics in my next trade package.

He can't have my "Conan the King" comic collection, however.


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## Knightfall (Apr 22, 2009)

FYI... I've gone through my Master List and removed anything that I've added to my "to get" list(s) on my collection thread as well as anything that I've decided I'm not interested in.

These five books are my most recent additions to my "to get" wish list(s)...

*Dark Sun*

Black Spine ("got it")
*Dragonlance*

DLT2 Book of Lairs
Dragonlance Classics, 15th Anniversary Edition
*Mystara*
DDA1 Arena of Thyatis
DDA2 Legions of Thyatis
I've also added Forest Maker to my Dark Sun wish list, but I'm still unsure about that adventure. I might change my mind about that one.

Also, I've added a few more items to the Master List that I'm now curious to learn more about. The TSR Archive web page is helping me make up my mind aout a lot of the items on my list but the site isn't 100% complete. I've also been delving into the official fan sites for Greyhawk, Mystara, and Ravenloft in order to learn more about older edition products that I haven't had any experience with.

Of course, I'm always eager to hear the opinions of my fellow gamers regarding anything from older editions of D&D (even if it's not on my list). Remember!: I owned A LOT of the 2e stuff (except for the later Birthright and Ravenloft products), so I don't really need very much advice regarding 2e products that aren't on my list.

Anyway, time to stop rambling.

Cheers!

KF


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## Castellan (Apr 22, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> BLACKMOOR
> Adventures in Blackmoor [DA1]
> City of the Gods [DA3]
> Duchy of Ten, The [DA4]
> ...





I'm a fan of the Blackmoor series, so I suggest picking up *DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor* and *DA2 Temple of the Frog*, especially (I know DA2 wasn't in your list, but it's worth keeping an eye out for). *DA3 City of the Gods* is interesting, and has a bit of a connection to DA2, but not enough that you need the earlier module to run this one. The City itself is not well fleshed out so I feel there's a lot of work to be done there, but to be honest I don't really know if I would have liked more detail. You're already getting into some weird stuff there, anyway. I recently grabbed *DA4 Duchy of Ten* but haven't had much chance to read it. If you only get one of these, get DA1 -- not for the adventure so much (which is a way to get your PCs from the modern era into the past to have adventures in Blackmoor), but for the nice campaign map and good mini-gazetteer of the Blackmoor world. If you only get two Blackmoor modules, try to find Temple of the Frog. My one complaint about the Temple module is that the maps have some rooms that weren't drawn to the proper scale -- you'll have to correct that by modifying them for play. Still, very entertaining stuff in my experience.

To take advantage of the Hollow World adventures, you'll need the boxed set. The adventures themselves take surface-dwellers on a whirlwind tour of this whole area and they end up seeing some very interesting stuff. The adventures are great from the standpoint that they introduce some new areas and have some of the high-quality maps that the D&D game of that era produced. The adventure itself isn't so hot, though. I found the overall plot to be somewhat (wait for it....) _hollow_. Yeah, I went there..... 

The *Atruaghin Clans* Gazetteer is my least-favorite of the series. While the fold-out map is good, you're looking at an American Indian inspired setting. If that's your cup of tea, then this might be of interest to you, but I felt that it didn't fit the feel of the rest of the world. You also get a passage into the Hollow World campaign setting, but even when I bought this book as a teenager I felt that the connection was more gratuitous than logical. Overall, the setting feels like it was created to help get people into the Hollow World rather than to complete the *Known World* regions from the Expert Boxed Set. I wish TSR had focused on the Heldann Freeholds, or the Kingdom of Wendar instead.

*CM8 The Endless Stair* is written by Ed Greenwood. If you're into 1st edition Forgotten Realms material (and I am, so consider my viewpoint as biased) then you'll find this a fun adventure. It really isn't strongly tied into the Mystara setting, so you could pretty easily throw it into an FR game (or anywhere else you like). Overall, I recommend it if it's a good price.

*The Minrothad Guilds* gazetteer is a reasonably good pickup if you're interested in lots of guild info, as well as seafaring trade info for the Known World. If I recall correctly, it is matched by the overland trade info that comes from the *GAZ11 Republic of Darokin* gazetteer. It doesn't contain the cool ship combat minigame that was introduced with *GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi* (which disappoints me) but does have some decent info in it. It's not my favorite of the GAZ series, but if you're looking to round out your collection, I'd recommend picking it up before the Atruaghin Clans...... There is a prestige-class-like class introduced in this book -- the Sea Merchant? (can't recall as I'm at work) -- that I think anyone can take and gets some interesting spells. I never played/encountered one in play, and I can't vouch for balance, but it was an interesting early concept of a non-base class that you tack onto your character later.

I hope some of this helps to make some of your decisions a little easier!


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 22, 2009)

Castellan said:


> I'm a fan of the Blackmoor series, so I suggest picking up *DA1 Adventures in Blackmoor* and *DA2 Temple of the Frog*, especially (I know DA2 wasn't in your list, but it's worth keeping an eye out for). *DA3 City of the Gods* is interesting, and has a bit of a connection to DA2, but not enough that you need the earlier module to run this one. The City itself is not well fleshed out so I feel there's a lot of work to be done there, but to be honest I don't really know if I would have liked more detail. You're already getting into some weird stuff there, anyway. I recently grabbed *DA4 Duchy of Ten* but haven't had much chance to read it. If you only get one of these, get DA1 -- not for the adventure so much (which is a way to get your PCs from the modern era into the past to have adventures in Blackmoor), but for the nice campaign map and good mini-gazetteer of the Blackmoor world. If you only get two Blackmoor modules, try to find Temple of the Frog. My one complaint about the Temple module is that the maps have some rooms that weren't drawn to the proper scale -- you'll have to correct that by modifying them for play. Still, very entertaining stuff in my experience.



Temple of the Frog wasn't on my list because I've already added it to my "to get" list, plus I have the recent d20 modern/v.3.5 revision that WotC did as a free PDF file.

More than likely I'd be collecting the DA Series to enhance the Blackmoor hardcover that Arneson did under the OGL. It sounds like DA1 would be an interesting look at how Blackmoor fits into the Known World/Mystara versus how it stands on its own as a campaign setting.



Castellan said:


> To take advantage of the Hollow World adventures, you'll need the boxed set. The adventures themselves take surface-dwellers on a whirlwind tour of this whole area and they end up seeing some very interesting stuff. The adventures are great from the standpoint that they introduce some new areas and have some of the high-quality maps that the D&D game of that era produced. The adventure itself isn't so hot, though. I found the overall plot to be somewhat (wait for it....) _hollow_. Yeah, I went there.....



The boxed set is already on my wish list.  I had it at one point, but sold it along with a lot of other stuff that I wished I had kept. I had the accessories for Hollow World as well but I never had the adventures. Now that I'm getting into BECMI, I want to reacquire a lot of the Mystara stuff I once had.



Castellan said:


> The *Atruaghin Clans* Gazetteer is my least-favorite of the series. While the fold-out map is good, you're looking at an American Indian inspired setting. If that's your cup of tea, then this might be of interest to you, but I felt that it didn't fit the feel of the rest of the world. You also get a passage into the Hollow World campaign setting, but even when I bought this book as a teenager I felt that the connection was more gratuitous than logical. Overall, the setting feels like it was created to help get people into the Hollow World rather than to complete the *Known World* regions from the Expert Boxed Set. I wish TSR had focused on the Heldann Freeholds, or the Kingdom of Wendar instead.



This is one of the few Gazetteers that I didn't own. I didn't know it was connected to the Hollow World. 

Perhaps I could adapt some of it to work in conjunction with the area north of Maztica in the Forgotten Realms.



Castellan said:


> *The Minrothad Guilds* gazetteer is a reasonably good pickup if you're interested in lots of guild info, as well as seafaring trade info for the Known World. If I recall correctly, it is matched by the overland trade info that comes from the *GAZ11 Republic of Darokin* gazetteer. It doesn't contain the cool ship combat minigame that was introduced with *GAZ4 Kingdom of Ierendi* (which disappoints me) but does have some decent info in it. It's not my favorite of the GAZ series, but if you're looking to round out your collection, I'd recommend picking it up before the Atruaghin Clans...... There is a prestige-class-like class introduced in this book -- the Sea Merchant? (can't recall as I'm at work) -- that I think anyone can take and gets some interesting spells. I never played/encountered one in play, and I can't vouch for balance, but it was an interesting early concept of a non-base class that you tack onto your character later.



I might have had this one, but I can't remember. I owned a lot of the Gazetteers, but I never got around to reading them before I sold them (*). I think part of the reason I sold them was that I was hoping that TSR was going to create 2e boxed sets for all the gazetteer regions like they did for Karameikos and Glantri.  

Now, I wish I had hung on to them. 

*I think I only read the first two or three. It was a while ago, so I can't remember. (If I collect them again, I won't be letting them go. The Karameikos and Glantri gazetteers are already on my "to get" list.)



Castellan said:


> *CM8 The Endless Stair* is written by Ed Greenwood. If you're into 1st edition Forgotten Realms material (and I am, so consider my viewpoint as biased) then you'll find this a fun adventure. It really isn't strongly tied into the Mystara setting, so you could pretty easily throw it into an FR game (or anywhere else you like). Overall, I recommend it if it's a good price.



Hmm, the official fan site for Mystara, Vaults of Pandius, lists that The Endless Stair is explicitly for Mystara; specifically, that it is set in the Principalities of Glantri. Does the module mention specific Realms locations in it?



Castellan said:


> I hope some of this helps to make some of your decisions a little easier!



Very helpful. Thanks.


----------



## Jhaelen (Apr 22, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> I've also added Forest Maker to my Dark Sun wish list, but I'm still unsure about that adventure. I might change my mind about that one.



I'm not sure if I already commented on this one. Anyway, I think that was probably the worst Darksun adventure of the whole bunch (I have them all). I don't remember exactly why I though it was that bad, though


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 22, 2009)

Jhaelen said:


> I'm not sure if I already commented on this one. Anyway, I think that was probably the worst Darksun adventure of the whole bunch (I have them all). I don't remember exactly why I though it was that bad, though



The information I have on it is pretty slim. Plus, I remember feeling a sense of "blah" when I first read about it when it came out in '94.





Here's the blurb as posted on the TSR archive...



> _Most adventurers know better than to listen to rumors. But when rumors spreak of a magical forest blooming deep in the burning stretch of the Alluvial Sand Wastes, even the most battle-hardened gladiator takes notice. A mysterious summons has gone out to the humans and demihumans of the Tyr region, luring them to the new forest and promising Athas's salvation. Now your characters have heard the call - but will they heed the Forest Maker, ot seek to destroy her?_
> 
> Designed for four to six characters of 11th to 13th level, Forest Maker brings player characters from the sun-baked streets of Tyr to the walled fortress of Altaruk and beyond. Forest Maker is a stand-alone adventure.
> 
> This latest in the DARK SUN series of adventures has been redesigned with standard-size booklets, one for the DUNGEON MASTER and one for the players. A third booklet provides a descriptive short story to set the tone of your adventure.



Black Spine interests me a lot more than Forest Maker.






> Unknown to even the mightiest of sorceror-kings, a fire is stirring deep beneath the barren soil of Athas. Sheltered by the titanic bulk of the Black Spine mountains, a terrible force has ripped open the very fabric of time and space. Now a shimmering portal stands open and a long-forgotten enemy assembles its sinister forces to invade the kingdoms under the dark sun.
> 
> The only thing that stands in the way of this terrible fate is a band of heroes. Assembled from the four corners of this tortured world and bound together by the tangled cords of fate, they must face an enemy the likes of which they have never seen before. The odds are against them, but they dare not fail. The fate of the world is in their hands.
> 
> Black Spine is an adventure for 4 to 6 characters of 10th through 13th level. The previous flip-book modules (Black Flames, Merchant House of Amketch, and Marauders of Nibenay) precede this adventure, but they are not necessary to enjoy Black Spine.




Also...

What's your opinion of Black Flames, Merchant House of Amketch, and Marauders of Nibenay? I had at least one of the other flip-book adventure series... Freedom, I think. I didn't really like it that much.


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## Castellan (Apr 23, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Hmm, the official fan site for Mystara, Vaults of Pandius, lists that The Endless Stair is explicitly for Mystara; specifically, that it is set in the Principalities of Glantri. Does the module mention specific Realms locations in it?




Well, it's definitely a Companion level adventure, but it's not tied to the setting in any real way -- I'm not sure that it mentions much in the way of locations, but the names are so Greenwoodian that you'll probably feel compelled to put it into FR instead of Mystara...

Despite its default setting, I'd say you could slap this adventure just about anywhere with very little (if any) modification.


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## Knightfall (Apr 24, 2009)

Castellan said:


> Well, it's definitely a Companion level adventure, but it's not tied to the setting in any real way -- I'm not sure that it mentions much in the way of locations, but the names are so Greenwoodian that you'll probably feel compelled to put it into FR instead of Mystara...
> 
> Despite its default setting, I'd say you could slap this adventure just about anywhere with very little (if any) modification.



It sounds like it would be an interesting read. I've always liked Greenwood's writing when it comes to FR game material. His FR novels, not as much.

I've pretty much decided that anything connected to Mystara is likely going to end up on my wish list, at some point, unless the accessory or module is reputed to being "really awful." 

Mystara is my second favorite classic D&D setting (*). Greyhawk is my favorite old school setting, the 1e/2e Forgotten Realms is a close third, and Blackmoor is fourth.

*EDIT:* I forgot Dragonlance, which is somewhere in between Greyhawk and Blackmoor. More than likely, as a D&D setting, Dragonlance would come after the Realms.

*I don't consider Dark Sun, Planescape, and Spelljammer to be truly old school. I'd have a really hard time picking a favorite amongst those three.


----------



## Jhaelen (Apr 24, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> What's your opinion of Black Flames, Merchant House of Amketch, and Marauders of Nibenay? I had at least one of the other flip-book adventure series... Freedom, I think. I didn't really like it that much.



I'll have to dig them out when I'm at home. I hardly remember which of them I've actually run. I _think_ we played Black Flames and Amketch, but not Marauders.

I started the campaign by running 'Freedom' and it worked quite well for us. However, it prematurely ended with a TPK... I also modified events slightly, since I wanted to keep some surprises for the players who had read the novels.

One thing I disliked about several Darksun modules was how you get to deal personally with several sorcerer kings at relatively low levels. This may also have been part of the reason for my dislike of Forestmaker.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 24, 2009)

Jhaelen said:


> I'll have to dig them out when I'm at home. I hardly remember which of them I've actually run. I _think_ we played Black Flames and Amketch, but not Marauders.
> 
> I started the campaign by running 'Freedom' and it worked quite well for us. However, it prematurely ended with a TPK... I also modified events slightly, since I wanted to keep some surprises for the players who had read the novels.



Looking forward to any insights you can give me... and I hate TPKs. I was in a player in one of those. It ended quickly. We didn't even get through the first encounter.



Jhaelen said:


> One thing I disliked about several Darksun modules was how you get to deal personally with several sorcerer kings at relatively low levels. This may also have been part of the reason for my dislike of Forestmaker.



_Sigh._

The Sorcerer-Kings are described as being godlike, yet the novels (and it sounds like the adventures) treated them as if they weren't anything more than petty dictators with too much arcane and political power.

If I get a chance to run a Dark Sun v3.5 campaign, I guarantee you the Sorcerer-Kings will be dangerous, enigmatic rulers who don't have time for adventurers. They crave power and order the deaths of anyone who they think is a threat, even if they're not. They're evil and corrupt and a few of them are insane.

They are not just NPCs; they are god-like beings that have lived longer than a group of PCs could even imagine.


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## Silverblade The Ench (Apr 24, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Looking forward to any insights you can give me... and I hate TPKs. I was in a player in one of those. It ended quickly. We didn't even get through the first encounter.
> 
> 
> _Sigh._
> ...




EXACTLY!!  that's why myself and a lot of other Dark Sun fans completely ignore the stupid mess TSR forced the setting down, by having novels and adventures madly change the setting, ruining it in fact, AND having it so that a bunch of low lvl noobs took out a bunch of near-deities...
Yea, _riiiiight _and any sane DM woudl allow that 

Only very high level PCs would have a hope of killing ONE sorceror king, never mind six!  Only the heroes: the PCs, should kill a villain of that might, because it's such "Oomph!" ya  know? and killing Kalak and the having a _DEMORACY_ in Tyr...WTH?!
disgustingly dumb as slavery, fear, oppression are all part of what makes Dark Sun so awesome, remove that and you have "Forgotten Desert" (tm) 

My pal's two PCs had to flee Athas at lvl 7, because the gladiator decided to slaughter everyone ion  an inn, when the mission was to kill just 1 person..this PO'd off King Kalak (bad for  law and order) and so he perosnally ordered their deaths....they managed to leave via a complex deadly journey through the Abyss.

BLack Spine is pretty good, IMHO, but causes serious problems because of the Gate involved, ie other planar entry, and how that changes things if it's not niped in the bud before ANY problems arise, so a DM has to be damn careful.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

Silverblade The Ench said:


> Only very high level PCs would have a hope of killing ONE sorceror king, never mind six!  Only the heroes: the PCs, should kill a villain of that might, because it's such "Oomph!" ya  know? and killing Kalak and the having a _DEMORACY_ in Tyr...WTH?!
> disgustingly dumb as slavery, fear, oppression are all part of what makes Dark Sun so awesome, remove that and you have "Forgotten Desert" (tm)



Well, I like the City-State of Tyr book (*) and I don't mind that King Kalak could be killed. However, it should have been an epic adventure arc in which the PCs have the chance to kill him and that they might not succeed.

*I've included Tyr as it is described in that book in my homebrewed world.



Silverblade The Ench said:


> My pal's two PCs had to flee Athas at lvl 7, because the gladiator decided to slaughter everyone ion  an inn, when the mission was to kill just 1 person..this PO'd off King Kalak (bad for  law and order) and so he perosnally ordered their deaths....they managed to leave via a complex deadly journey through the Abyss.



Run! Run for your lives... and your very souls. Plus, a Sorcerer-King has devoted followers who will hunt the PCs forever. Kalak doesn't need to worry about hunting you himself. 



Silverblade The Ench said:


> BLack Spine is pretty good, IMHO, but causes serious problems because of the Gate involved, ie other planar entry, and how that changes things if it's not niped in the bud before ANY problems arise, so a DM has to be damn careful.



So there is a chance the gate could stay open? That's a scary idea.


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## Jhaelen (Apr 25, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> The Sorcerer-Kings are described as being godlike, yet the novels (and it sounds like the adventures) treated them as if they weren't anything more than petty dictators with too much arcane and political power.



I agree.

So, let's see what I can say about the adventure modules:

- Freedom: already discussed. Even though it was a TPK I thought it was okay. I think it may actually have helped to set the right mood for Darksun.

- Road to Urik: played. The adventure starts with a lot of interesting roleplaying encounters. The pcs have to try to gain allies and support to build an army. The next part involves leading that army into battle. After a couple of encounters on the road, this was supposed to be played using the BattleSystem which I didn't use. Still, the adventure was quite nice.

- Arcane Shadows: not played. Basically it's about accompanying a theoretically super-powerful npc preserver that for some inexplicable reason needs the pcs to get somewhere to watch him get transformed into an avangion. Meh - avoid!

- Asticlian Gambit: not played. After a couple of encounters on the road, the pcs have a nice chat with the Oba of Gulg in her palace. Then they get imprisoned to be freed later on to be hunted by some spoiled nobles only to get caught again, this time by templars of Nibenay. After meeting Nibenay ... ah, whatever, this adventure sucks big time.

- Dragon's Crown: not played. This one is huge. It also doesn't use the innovative flip books. My feeling is that it's a bit too long to keep the players' interest. If it was condensed into a more focused, shorter adventure using only the really interesting and meaningful encounters and locations, it could be great fun, I guess.

- Black Flames: not played. So, there's this dragon (!) who needs the help of the pcs, see? He tricks them into exploring some ruins and get a mcguffin for him. Luckily Abalach-Re shows up to save the day. After believing themselves safe, the mortally wounded dragon returns *shudder* And there I thought Asticlian Gambit was bad...

- Merchant House of Amketch: played. The pcs are to find the source of nasty anti-psionic bugs and put an end to their trading. So they start their investigation by hiring on as caravan guards. This adventure was quite intriguing and the design makes good use of the flip-book format. A good one!

- Marauders of Nibenay: not played. Nibenay tries to destroy the Veiled Alliance chapter in his city, which results in freeing a mysterious entity that wrecks everything. They get to explore the hidden fortress looking for a way to return things back to normal. Naturally, the get to meet Nibenay and find out all his secrets ... Hmpf.

- Black Spine: partially played (outside of the Darksun campaign). The second mega-adventure, also not using the flip-book format. I liked this one better than Dragon's Crown. It's more streamlined and the later part is a pretty classical dungeon-crawl. I think, if you like githyanki, you'll like the adventure.

- Forestmaker: not played. Interestingly, this one's not using the flip-book format. I now know, why I didn't like it. Hint: it involves a sorcerer king in a, umm, prominent role.


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## tylerthehobo (Apr 25, 2009)

I remember really liking The Endless Stair as a kid.  I think it was a little bit more cosmic than some of the other CM adventures, if I recall...  And Greenwood's gaming stuff was always up my alley, so having his first foray - why not?


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## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

Jhaelen said:


> Freedom: already discussed. Even though it was a TPK I thought it was okay. I think it may actually have helped to set the right mood for Darksun.
> 
> Road to Urik: played. The adventure starts with a lot of interesting roleplaying encounters. The pcs have to try to gain allies and support to build an army. The next part involves leading that army into battle. After a couple of encounters on the road, this was supposed to be played using the BattleSystem which I didn't use. Still, the adventure was quite nice.



From what I understand, after reading the TSR Archive, these two adventures can be linked together and linked to Arcane Shadows and Asticlian Gambit. But, how well do they (and the rest of the flip-book adventures) stand on their own?



Jhaelen said:


> Arcane Shadows: not played. Basically it's about accompanying a theoretically super-powerful npc preserver that for some inexplicable reason needs the pcs to get somewhere to watch him get transformed into an avangion. Meh - avoid!
> 
> Asticlian Gambit: not played. After a couple of encounters on the road, the pcs have a nice chat with the Oba of Gulg in her palace. Then they get imprisoned to be freed later on to be hunted by some spoiled nobles only to get caught again, this time by templars of Nibenay. After meeting Nibenay ... ah, whatever, this adventure sucks big time.



Okay, so not those two. Check.



Jhaelen said:


> Dragon's Crown: not played. This one is huge. It also doesn't use the innovative flip books. My feeling is that it's a bit too long to keep the players' interest. If it was condensed into a more focused, shorter adventure using only the really interesting and meaningful encounters and locations, it could be great fun, I guess.



I'm pretty sure I want this one. Its premise sounds pretty epic. Plus, I'm curious to find out how much background it gives on the environs of the Dragon Crown Mountains.



Jhaelen said:


> Black Flames: not played. So, there's this dragon (!) who needs the help of the pcs, see? He tricks them into exploring some ruins and get a mcguffin for him. Luckily Abalach-Re shows up to save the day. After believing themselves safe, the mortally wounded dragon returns *shudder* And there I thought Asticlian Gambit was bad...



Another miss. Check.



Jhaelen said:


> Merchant Houses of Amketch: played. The pcs are to find the source of nasty anti-psionic bugs and put an end to their trading. So they start their investigation by hiring on as caravan guards. This adventure was quite intriguing and the design makes good use of the flip-book format. A good one!



The premise of this one sounds interesting... but I was worried that the "anti-psionic bug" idea was actually cheesy. It doesn't sound like a typical hack n' slash adventure, which I like.



Jhaelen said:


> Marauders of Nibenay: not played. Nibenay tries to destroy the Veiled Alliance chapter in his city, which results in freeing a mysterious entity that wrecks everything. They get to explore the hidden fortress looking for a way to return things back to normal. Naturally, the get to meet Nibenay and find out all his secrets ... Hmpf.



More interaction with Nibenay.  Jeez. He's not that great a character. Another one I think I'll pass on.



Jhaelen said:


> Black Spine: partially played (outside of the Darksun campaign). The second mega-adventure, also not using the flip-book format. I liked this one better than Dragon's Crown. It's more streamlined and the later part is a pretty classical dungeon-crawl. I think, if you like githyanki, you'll like the adventure.



This is the other adventure I'm seriously considering. I love the githyanki and the thought of them invading Athas is a cool and scary idea.

Hmm, I could throw in a few githzerai that are trying to stop the invasion, which could really confuse the player's characters. Who is a bad guy and who isn't? 



Jhaelen said:


> Forestmaker: not played. Interestingly, this one's not using the flip-book format. I now know, why I didn't like it. Hint: it involves a sorcerer king in a, umm, prominent role.



Another swing and a miss. (I think we're all in agreement about that.)

So, Freedom, Road to Urik, and Merchant House of Amketch are the good flip-book adventures. Plus, I'm fairly certain I'm going to get Dragon's Crown and Black Spine.

Thanks for all your input, Jhaelen.


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## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

tylerthehobo said:


> I remember really liking The Endless Stair as a kid.  I think it was a little bit more cosmic than some of the other CM adventures, if I recall...  And Greenwood's gaming stuff was always up my alley, so having his first foray - why not?



It's a definite "maybe" for me. Actually, I'm leaning towards getting most of the CM Series, if I can find them. They seem to be a little more rare than the other BECMI modules... well, at least in my hometown.


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## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

*UPDATE!!!*
Well, I traded away my "trade bait" today. I didn't get as much for it as I had hoped, but since I only had to spend $4 of my money to get the "trade bait," I'm happy with the result.

I got two 2 boxed sets and an adventure.

Dawn of the Emperors
Halls of the High King [FA1]
Ruins of Undermountain, the
The main thing, of mine, that I gave up was my 2e FR campaign setting boxed set (*), which became expendable once I had traded for the 1e version. *The box didn't have all the maps in it, so it wasn't a big loss.

The Paladium Fantasy book is gone now too. I just couldn't see myself hanging on to it. After all, it was the Revised Edition and not the first printing. If I ever find that then I'd likely keep it.

The end result was that I paid CAN $54 for 3 items that would have cost me CAN $75 without my "trade bait." So, I'm happy. 

I also bought some other books, as well -- Dragons Revisited and two used copies of the DMG v.3.5 and PHB v.3.5. The core books look brand new, however, and I only paid around CAN $50 for both of them together. The used book store also had the MM v.3.5 but mine is still not to bad plus I couldn't justify spending another $25 for it.

Anyway, this means that my old, original copies of the DMG and the PHB are now "trade bait." 

Pictures to come in the next post...


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## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

The trade trio...


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## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

The "new" used v.3.5 core rule books...


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## Knightfall (Apr 25, 2009)

FYI... a FLGS here in Edmonton has the _Silver Anniversary Collector's Edition_ boxed set. It's priced REALLY high, however. CAN $89.95. (I think that was the price before tax.)

That seemed really high; however, I think it's brand new. Still, what do people think? Too much? A steal? About right?

I might be going back for it.

They also had a copy of _Return to the Tomb of Horrors_, which wasn't as much (around $50 to $60, I think). I think it will be a toss up between the two. I can't really afford both.

Hmm... 

Decisions, Decisions!


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## M.L. Martin (Apr 26, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> FYI... a FLGS here in Edmonton has the _Silver Anniversary Collector's Edition_ boxed set. It's priced REALLY high, however. CAN $89.95. (I think that was the price before tax.)
> 
> That seemed really high; however, I think it's brand new. Still, what do people think? Too much? A steal? About right?
> 
> ...




   If memory serves, the Silver Anniversary box is an 'old-school grab bag'--reprints of the Holmes D&D rulebook, G1-3, B2, S3 (or whatever number White Plume Mountain was) and I6, along with an unpublished 1st Edition module and a retrospective book on the history of TSR.
   If those reprints (and they're purely reprints, not updates or adaptations--AFAIK, the only change is the "Silver Anniversary" TSR logo) are worth that much to you, then go for it; if not, pass.


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## M.L. Martin (Apr 26, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> *UPDATE!!!*
> Well, I traded away my "trade bait" today. I didn't get as much for it as I had hoped, but since I only had to spend $4 of my money to get the "trade bait," I'm happy with the result.
> 
> I got two 2 boxed sets and an adventure.
> ...




  Nice find. <gloat> I found _Dawn of the Emperors_ for $8 US this past December--and someone had stuffed _Elves of Alfheim_, _Dwarves of Rockhome_, and _The Shadow Elves_ into the box as well.


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## Silverblade The Ench (Apr 26, 2009)

As note previously, I got rid of a ton of old stuff ot Ebay, through my cousin...I felt violated getting rid of it all...cry...you may get some of it, lol
But I kept Undermountain as it's so damn good you should love it 
(and any Dark SUn/Spelljammer items and some precious bits)
Undermountain is one of the few dungeon crawls I like as a DM..cause it's a _setting _more than a _crawl_

City State of Tyr is good in laying out the city, but I stick to keeping the Sorceror Kings alive. The Add ons for Dark Sun are good, IMHO, Dune Trader though is my fave.
However the level and stats for NPCs in most of the dark sun stuff is garbage!! it's ATHAS not "Bognor Regis", roflmao!! 
so their highest stat is a 15 or 16...they are level 8 AND the fluff is telling me they are some hard ass? Eh? not likely is it! 
So the NPC stats are often way out of whack.
I've always seen it that Athasian characters are very damned otugh and levelled, by sheer necessity of survival and experience...though as always, for NPCs, that can mean super saavy trader who's useless in a fight...but his guards aren't!
that's the advantage of 3rd and 4th ed, you can have such folk with high skills, and it's those skills that let them be dangerous, rather than combat ability.

And hell yes they had to run, lol. Cilops (psionic tracking centipede beasties) and rangers were the _least _of their worries! 
Athas is about _survival of the least dumbest_, and I severely punish stupidity there hehe


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## Knightfall (Apr 26, 2009)

Matthew L. Martin said:


> If memory serves, the Silver Anniversary box is an 'old-school grab bag'--reprints of the Holmes D&D rulebook, G1-3, B2, *S2* (or whatever number White Plume Mountain was) and I6, along with an unpublished 1st Edition module and a retrospective book on the history of TSR.



Yeah, it has those modules and the rulebook, plus the unpublished L3 Deep Dwarven Delve. This web page on The Acaeum has all the details. The box also includes...

Story of TSR, a 32-pg book outlining the history of TSR including a retrospective essay by Gary Gygax.
8.5" x 11" art lithograph on cardstock by Jeff Easley (1,000 of these -- out the 5,000 total printed -- were signed and numbered by Jeff Easley.  Sets that contain this signed print can be identified by a silver sticker on the outside of the box.)
I didn't notice whether or not it has the sticker.



Matthew L. Martin said:


> If those reprints (and they're purely reprints, not updates or adaptations--AFAIK, the only change is the "Silver Anniversary" TSR logo) are worth that much to you, then go for it; if not, pass.



I'm not sure if they are all worth it. However, I really want the L3 module as that is considered rare. It is worth US $42 if in 'NM' condition while the box is worth US $90 'NM'.



> *From The Acaeum*
> *Near Mint (NM):*  There may be a few light stress lines on the spine, but otherwise the spine is strong and intact.  Corners are sharp, but can have a little bit of “bumping” or other very minor wear.  In general, no creases should be present, though a slight “bend” that does not create a noticeable stress crease may be allowed.  The edges may have a few very tiny “bumps” or “nicks”.  A few light stress lines are acceptable on the surface, but they should NOT break the color.  Surface colors should be bright with at most a few “color flecks” or some very minimal “color fading” (as usually occurs along the spine).  Any spots of discoloration or staining would be extremely minor (no more than a few pencil-tip sized dots).  In addition, the inside booklet should be complete with no marks, no rust on the staples and all inserts/maps still attached.  At most, a few very light marks may be allowed – such as a pencil note next to a creature’s stats or (possibly) and small price written in pencil on the inside flyleaf (as from a used book store).  Even though, the above flaws are acceptable in Near Mint condition, an item should not contain any more than a few such defects. An accumulation of several of the above will likely drop the item down another grade.  *Note:* nearly all items described as "mint" in the marketplace are in fact *Near Mint*.  In keeping with this philosophy, we do not offer Estimated Values for any grade higher than Near Mint.


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## Knightfall (Apr 26, 2009)

Matthew L. Martin said:


> Nice find. <gloat> I found _Dawn of the Emperors_ for $8 US this past December--and someone had stuffed _Elves of Alfheim_, _Dwarves of Rockhome_, and _The Shadow Elves_ into the box as well.



  

This is me being jealous!


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## Knightfall (Apr 26, 2009)

Silverblade The Ench said:


> As note previously, I got rid of a ton of old stuff ot Ebay, through my cousin...I felt violated getting rid of it all...cry...you may get some of it, lol
> But I kept Undermountain as it's so damn good you should love it
> (and any Dark SUn/Spelljammer items and some precious bits)
> Undermountain is one of the few dungeon crawls I like as a DM..cause it's a _setting _more than a _crawl_



I understand your feelings. I still cringe when I think of selling off my original 2e collection 10 years ago. 

The Undermountain boxed set was part of that collection, so I'm really glad to have it again. This time I'm not giving it up. No way, no how.


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## Knightfall (Apr 26, 2009)

Silverblade The Ench said:


> City State of Tyr is good in laying out the city, but I stick to keeping the Sorceror Kings alive. The Add ons for Dark Sun are good, IMHO, Dune Trader though is my fave.
> However the level and stats for NPCs in most of the dark sun stuff is garbage!! it's ATHAS not "Bognor Regis", roflmao!!
> so their highest stat is a 15 or 16...they are level 8 AND the fluff is telling me they are some hard ass? Eh? not likely is it!
> So the NPC stats are often way out of whack.
> ...



Dune Trader rocks! I built my own trader class based on that sourcebook. The thri-kreen book is excellent as well.

I want to reacquire Slave Tribes first and foremost. After that, probably Elves of Athas or Veiled Alliance. However, I might get Black Spine before those two books. Of course, it depends on what I can "find" first.



Silverblade The Ench said:


> And hell yes they had to run, lol. Cilops (psionic tracking centipede beasties) and rangers were the _least _of their worries!
> Athas is about _survival of the least dumbest_, and I severely punish stupidity there hehe



Heh. Least dumbest... funny.


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## Knightfall (Apr 26, 2009)

*Another Update -- Part One!*
I decided to visit the northside Wee Book Inn today. I hadn't been to it in about 4 or 5 years. I never think of it. Well, today I got a copt of the _Black Company Campaign Settting_ hardcover for half its listed US price.

But that wasn't even the best part of my day. I decided, on a lark, to head down to the southside to a comic store called Wizard's to look through the gaming books they have there. They sell all older edition D&D books at 50% off. Wizard's is where I got _Guide to Hell_.

I hadn't been there since before I began compiling my collection list and "to get" wish list(s). Thus, I hadn't seriously looked at what they had until now.

Well, I could beleive my eyes!

They had an unopened copy of the TOMES adventure box, _Return to the Tomb of Horrors!_ Plus, they had it marked for only $10! Not only that, the guy behind the counter sold it to me for $5 because they sell all their older edition products for half price! 

I was sure it wasn't complete, so I insisted on seing inside the box. It has everything, even the reproduction of the _S1 Tomb of Horrors_ module!

Now, the box's cover is slightly damaged, but I don't care about that. I didn't buy it to sit on a shelf unused. I bought it to read and use!

I also picked up both _Against the Giants: The Liberation of Geoff_ and _The Vortex of Madness and Other Planar Perils_ while I wa there. And the store has tons of other 2e books I'm now seriously considering...

_A Paladin in Hell_
_Champions of the Mists_ ("got it")
_Dark of the Moon_ ("got it")
_Dungeon Crawl: The Dungeon of Death_ (not there, like I thought)
_Dungeon Crawl: The Lost Shrine of Bundushatur_ ("got it")
_Harbinger House_ ("got it")
_Return of the Eight_ ("got it")
_Return to White Plume Mountain_ ("got it")
_The Evil Eye_ ("got it")
_The Star Cairns_ ("got it")
_Vecna Reborn_ ("got it")
I really had to control myself or I would have bought half a dozen of these books. I cannot afford to go to crazy, considering what I bought yesterday and my financial situation. 

Still, today was a better day than yesterday was, by far. 

I think I'll be taking my extra _DMG_ and _PHB_ (and my copy of _Tome of Magic_, which I don't like) to Whyte Knight tomorrow and sell them outright. Then I'll be heading back to Wizard's to get as many of these other books I can without dipping into my own money. 

Other books they had that I'm not sure about or that I already own: _Children of the Night: Werebeasts_ ("got it"); _Den of Thieves_ (I have it); _Die Vecna Die!_ (pass); _Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark_; _Monster Mythology_ (I have it); _Reverse Dungeon_ (pass); both of the _Elminster's Ecologies_ softcover accessories for the Realms (confirmed); the _Alternity Science Fiction Adventure Game_ boxed set (maybe); and the _Wilderness Survival Guide_ for 1e (confirmed).

I'll be updating my Collection List tomorrow. I'm going out to a movie... right now! My friend just pulled up. Gotta go!

Cheers!

Knightfall


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

*Another Update -- Part Two!*
I went back to Wizard's today after I traded away my *old* copies of the _DMG v.3.5_, the _PHB v.3.5_, and _Tome of Magic_. I got CAN $40 for those three books.

(I also traded two other non-RPG books away and got $1.75 for them.  )

At Wizard's, I got 6 books for CAN $53.55...

_Carnival_ (I missed this one the other day)
_Champions of the Mist_
_Lost Shrine of Bundushatur, The_
_Return of the Eight_
_Return to White Plume Mountain_
_Star Cairns, The_
Also, I confirmed a few of the books I noted from yesterday. (See last post.) Also, I discovered that they also have the following: _Of Ships and the Sea_; _Thief’s Screen_; _Slavers_ (I have this one); and all three of the _Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendiums_!

Plus, I called around to several book and comic stores and discovered one store has three boxes of RPG books (some old, some d20), which are being sold for $5 a book. I'm going there next. 

Hopefully, they'll have some v.3.5 books that I can flip at WK for other books or sell for money to use at Wizard's. 

Cheers!

KF


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## Crothian (Apr 28, 2009)

It's like an addicition


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Crothian said:


> It's like an addicition



Yep. 

Picture time...






The Swag!​


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Just the books...


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Return to the Tomb of Horrors!


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## Dimitri Mazieres (Apr 28, 2009)

Wow! That last book-hunting foray was really fruitful! I'm quite jealous of some of the ones you got! 
Btw, congratulations on getting Champions of the Mists and Carnival. You won't it. 

Edit: Also, The Evil Eye is a great adventure. It's considered one of the best of the Ravenloft 2e line, by most fans of the setting.


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Wow! That last book-hunting foray was really fruitful! I'm quite jealous of some of the ones you got!



Thanks. I'm happy with my day. 

I only wish that Wizard's had a copy of Return to the Keep on the Borderlands too. There is a second "Wizard's" store in the city but I don't know if that one also has older RPG books available for half price.

I'll call them tomorrow to find out. 

Regardless, first I'm going to the comic store I mentioned, this Wednesday. If I'm lucky, there will be some D&D v.3.5 books I can flip to Whyte Knight. (The owner doesn't want 3.0 books, and I don't blame him.) If not, then hopeful I'll be able to get one or two books I want.



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Btw, congratulations on getting Champions of the Mists and Carnival. You won't [regret] it.



Wizard's has two more copies of Carnival, if you can believe that! They look relatively unused. I'm now seriously considering the Van Ritchen compendiums since Wizard's has all three. I definitely want the third one, but I haven't decided regarding the other two.



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Edit: Also, The Evil Eye is a great adventure. It's considered one of the best of the Ravenloft 2e line, by most fans of the setting.



Well, I've already decided to add that one to my "to get" list as well as Dark of the Moon. What's your personal opinion regarding Vecna Reborn and Web of Illusion?

FYI... I'm going to look at some of the reviews on FoS right now. 

*EDIT:* Adding Circle of Darkness to my "to get" list.


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## Dimitri Mazieres (Apr 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Wizard's has two more copies of Carnival, if you can believe that! They look relatively unused.



If they're not too expensive (i.e. less than MSRP) you might consider getting another copy. They're quite hard to find at decent prices, at least online, and you may be able to make some money out of it if you ever decide to go the eBay route. 



Knightfall said:


> I'm now seriously considering the Van Ritchen compendiums since Wizard's has all three. I definitely want the third one, but I haven't decided regarding the other two.



I'd say that if you like the concept of the VRGuides, and don't have the original ones, it's a nice option to have all of them in a nice matching set. Plus, in case you care about the interior art, they feature illustrations by Kevin McCann, which IMHO was the best Ravenloft illustrator _ever_.



Knightfall said:


> What's your personal opinion regarding Vecna Reborn and Web of Illusion?



Those are two adventures I don't have. I guess that, at the very least, they could be useful for getting some information on the domains they're set in (Sri Raji, Tovag and Cavitus) which there isn't much of.
As a little trivia, Vecna Reborn is one of the few Ravenloft items that usually sells for higher prices than MSRP on eBay. I don't know if that's because of rarity (low print run?) or because it was written by Monte Cook. As far as I recall, it wasn't particularly well received by Ravenloft fans when it was released. 



Knightfall said:


> FYI... I'm going to look at some of the reviews on FoS right now.



I think that you should be able to find more detailed information than I could provide you on a number of products. Still, if you have any Ravenloft-related questions, fell free to ask.


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

I just discovered this free PDF book on FoS...

Ravenloft: Van Richten's Guide to the Mists

Excellent!


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## Dimitri Mazieres (Apr 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> *EDIT:* Adding Circle of Darkness to my "to get" list.



That is another good adventure I still have to get my hands on... 

Btw, here's another place where you can find a wealth of reviews on practically every Ravenloft product released up until 2003: the Secrets of the Kargatane Reviews page (kindly brought back from the dead by the Wayback Machine ). This was the official Ravenloft website from 1999 until 2003.


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## Dimitri Mazieres (Apr 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> I just discovered this free PDF book on FoS...
> 
> Ravenloft: Van Richten's Guide to the Mists
> 
> Excellent!



Ah, yes. That was the last official 3.5 product for Ravenloft, while under White Wolf's tenure. They allowed the license to revert to WotC since, apparently, the (increased?) cost of renewing it was more than it was worth to WW. That was a sad thing. It would have been interesting to see the Gazetteer series expanded beyond the Core..


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Dimitri Mazieres said:


> If they're not too expensive (i.e. less than MSRP) you might consider getting another copy. They're quite hard to find at decent prices, at least online, and you may be able to make some money out of it if you ever decide to go the eBay route.



Well, I only paid CAN $10 (US $8.23) for mine, so I'd be able to buy the other two for the same price. More than likely I'd buy one as Whyte Knight "trade bait" or to trade to someone else here on EN World for something I'd really want.

Heh. 



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> I'd say that if you like the concept of the VRGuides, and don't have the original ones, it's a nice option to have all of them in a nice matching set. Plus, in case you care about the interior art, they feature illustrations by Kevin McCann, which IMHO was the best Ravenloft illustrator _ever_.



Well, the third one interests me because it has the "hags" guide in it. However, I've wanted to get the Werebeasts VR guide again for some time, so I could see myself getting the first one too. If I did that then I'd have to have all three... just because!

I haven't decided yet. 



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Those are two adventures I don't have. I guess that, at the very least, they could be useful for getting some information on the domains they're set in (Sri Raji, Tovag and Cavitus) which there isn't much of.



Web of Illusion definitely interests me more than Vecna Reborn.



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> As a little trivia, Vecna Reborn is one of the few Ravenloft items that usually sells for higher prices than MSRP on eBay. I don't know if that's because of rarity (low print run?) or because it was written by Monte Cook. As far as I recall, it wasn't particularly well received by Ravenloft fans when it was released.



Really? That's interesting since Wizard's has, at least, two of them. ("Don't quote me on that, however.")



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> I think that you should be able to find more detailed information than I could provide you on a number of products. Still, if you have any Ravenloft-related questions, fell free to ask.



Well, some of the products on that page have reviews but some do not. Plus, reviews by die hard fans tend to be either glowing or scathing. I prefer to get the opinions of those with some.. neutrality.

Still, I've added some of the v.3.5 Ravenloft books to my "to get" list after browsing/skimming through the reviews. The overviews for those products were very useful.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Dimitri Mazieres said:


> That is another good adventure I still have to get my hands on...
> 
> Btw, here's another place where you can find a wealth of reviews on practically every Ravenloft product released up until 2003: the Secrets of the Kargatane Reviews page (kindly brought back from the dead by the Wayback Machine ). This was the official Ravenloft website from 1999 until 2003.



Yep. I know all about that site. I don't think about it because I consider it a "dead" site. Heh. I made a bad punny.


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Ah, yes. That was the last official 3.5 product for Ravenloft, while under White Wolf's tenure. They allowed the license to revert to WotC since, apparently, the (increased?) cost of renewing it was more than it was worth to WW. That was a sad thing. It would have been interesting to see the Gazetteer series expanded beyond the Core..



I only have one of the 3rd Edition Gazetteers so far but I want to get them all. Another FLGS here in Edmonton is selling tons of old d20/OGL books, including the Ravenloft books, for half price. While I don't think that sore has them all, I'm hoping they have a few of the gazetteers and the Ravenloft PHB, at least.

I'm going there tomorrow.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> to trade to someone else here on EN World for something I'd really want.




What do you really want?  Heck, I'm sure you've got access to more then a few things I'd be looking for.


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## Dimitri Mazieres (Apr 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Really? That's interesting since Wizard's has, at least, two of them. ("Don't quote me on that, however.")



Curse my luck for being limited to buying online and not having a handy discount book store with small treasures such as you have... 



Knightfall said:


> Well, some of the products on that page have reviews but some do not. Plus, reviews by die hard fans tend to be either glowing or scathing. I prefer to get the opinions of those with some.. neutrality.



Well, I don't think I'm quite impartial as far as Ravenloft goes, but neither am I a "Ravenloft rulz! Everything else sux!!" guy. 



Knightfall said:


> Yep. I know all about that site. I don't think about it because I consider it a "dead" site. Heh. I made a bad punny.



Dead as a doornail  Still, those reviews are priceless if you're looking for information on the Demiplane's products.



Knightfall said:


> I only have one of the 3rd Edition Gazetteers so far but I want to get them all. Another FLGS here in Edmonton is selling tons of old d20/OGL books, including the Ravenloft books, for half price. While I don't think that sore has them all, I'm hoping they have a few of the gazetteers and the Ravenloft PHB, at least.
> 
> I'm going there tomorrow.



Best of luck, then! Getting the complete Gazetteer series would be quite a feat nowadays (again, speaking from an online buyer POV )


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Crothian said:


> What do you really want?  Heck, I'm sure you've got access to more then a few things I'd be looking for.



Well, off the top of my head...

City of Greyhawk boxed set
Creative Campaigning [DMGR5] ("got it")
D&D Rules Cyclopedia
Glantri: Kingdom of Magic boxed set
The Bloodstone Lands [FR9] ("got it")
Uncaged: Faces of Sigil
Wrath of the Immortals boxed set
For a more detailed list of what I have and what I'm looking for, click on the link in my sig (in the sblock) for my RPG Collection List. While I don't really want to part with anything I have, I could see about finding something here in Edmonton that you might not be able to get where you are. Whyte Knight has a lot of older games; however, the owner tends to charge a lot since he has a bit of a monoploy on older games that are hard to find.

Note that I have limited money to work with, so I cannot be buying tons of stuff here to send to people elsewhere as part of any trading. I can look around town and see what is available, but I cannot make any promises. 

For example, right now, the Wee Book Inn (a used bookstore chain in Edmonton) located in downtown Edmonton has several Robotech books plus the Alternity version of Dark*Matter (*). The north side store has the Dark*Matter Xenoforms book (*) as well. The Whyte Avenue store currently has both Grim Tales (*) and Slavelords of Cydonia and several D&D v.3.x books. The Wee Book Inn in the western part of the city has the 3e Silver Marches (*) softcover and the Blood Wood sourcebook for Earthdawn. *I've considered all of these but I can't afford them all.

However, what the Wee Book Inns have changes at a moments notice. Alternity books tend to sit while D&D books, of any edition, tend to fly off the shelves. They tend to sell older game books for half the listed price but that can vary. D&D v.3.5 books are usually sold for more, especially the core rulebooks.

Whyte Knight has the best selection of almost anything you'd want but, like I said, it's often at a premium. Wizard's has a lot of 2e D&D books for half off, right now but that isn't there business so when the best stuff is gone, it's gone.

Also note that very few Edmonton-based book, comic, or RPG stores have web sites. There is a store called Gamers' Lair that does but that store sells only new books, I believe. Wee Book Inn has a web site (and a forum), which I've posted a link to on this thread already, but I don't know if they have a mail ordering system. (My guess is 'no'.) Here's the link again: Wee Book Inn | Try Us First

Whyte Knight does not have a web site and neither do the WARP or Wizard's stores, I believe. I'll ask the next time I visit those stores. The WARP stores almost never discount anything, except for WARP 2.

Anyway, let me know what you're looking for and I'll see what I can find.


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Curse my luck for being limited to buying online and not having a handy discount book store with small treasures such as you have...



Heh. 

Note that I can't find everything I want. Castles & Crusades, for example, is *really* hard to find here. I thought WARP 1 had one of the boxed sets for C&C but it turned out to be some sort of boxed set for Lejendary Adventures, which I'm not interested in. 



Dimitri Mazieres said:


> Best of luck, then! Getting the complete Gazetteer series would be quite a feat nowadays (again, speaking from an online buyer POV )



Well, I know for a fact that WARP 1 has them all but the store's D&D guru refuses to discount them (or any of the 2nd or 3rd edition D&D books they still have  ). If WARP 2 has all of them as well then that's where I'm going to get them since they will be half price there. I mainly go to WARP 1 to buy Pathfinder books. Plus, WARP 1 has, like I said before, the Silver Anniversary Collector's Edition box but it's CAN $90 before tax. 

That's too rich for my blood! 

If they stiil have it when my birthday comes around then maybe I'll get it then with any birthday money I get. Maybe!


----------



## Ariosto (Apr 28, 2009)

Thinking about the feel of Fritz Leiber's stories:

Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser are two of the greatest swordsmen in all the worlds ... because the Author makes it so and gives them "plot protection".

In RuneQuest, or a system with a roughly similar approach, skill can certainly go a long way toward doing unto others before they do unto you. However, on those unlucky occasions when a hero is hit, *armor is a pretty big deal* -- and the famous duo tend not to wear much. (Nor to use shields; the fencing style seems more modern than medieval.)

So, one might want to look at how one's chosen system handles damage, and adjust it to taste. D&D works well for a more "cinematic" approach, because for a high-level character a loss of HP that might kill a normal man might not even represent a wound.


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## Wereserpent (Apr 28, 2009)

Ariosto said:


> Thinking about the feel of Fritz Leiber's stories:
> 
> Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser are two of the greatest swordsmen in all the worlds ... because the Author makes it so and gives them "plot protection".
> 
> ...




I think you posted this in the wrong thread.


----------



## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Galeros said:


> I think you posted this in the wrong thread.



Definitely in the wrong thread.


----------



## amethal (Apr 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> *UPDATE!!!*
> I got two 2 boxed sets and an adventure.
> 
> Dawn of the Emperors
> ...



I hate you 



Matthew L. Martin said:


> Nice find. <gloat> I found _Dawn of the Emperors_ for $8 US this past December--and someone had stuffed _Elves of Alfheim_, _Dwarves of Rockhome_, and _The Shadow Elves_ into the box as well.



I hate you even more


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

amethal said:


> I hate you
> 
> I hate you even more



Heh.

Whyte Knight has two more copies of Dawn of the Emperors plus Grand Duchy of Karameikos and Principalities of Glantri.


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## Knightfall (Apr 28, 2009)

Today's find...

-> RAVENLOFT Legacy of the Blood: Great Families of the Core (CAN $15)

WARP 2 also had two copies of Denizens of Dread and, at least, one copy each of Gazetteers II, III ,and V. (I want those.) Add to that the v.3.0 Champions of Darkness; Heroes of Light; and Van Richten's Arsenal, Volume I. (I'm not interested in those.  )

The store also had two copies of Tome of Horrors III. I'll be getting one of those... eventually.

I checked out some of the store's non-D&D old school books as well, but I'll post about that in the pre-1990 thread.


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## Knightfall (Apr 30, 2009)

I did more wheeling and dealing today. I went to that comic store I mentioned (selling books for $5 each) and spent CAN $40 to get the following...

All That Glitters... [UK6]
Alternity Star*Drive Campaign Setting
Kingdoms of Kalamar Campaign Setting Sourcebook
Oasis of the White Palm [I4]
RAVENLOFT: Denizens of Darkness (v3.0)
Rifts® Vampire Kingdoms
The Bane of Llywelyn [C5]
The Isle of Dread [X1]
I wasn't done there. I took Denizens of Darkness, Vampire Kingdoms, and my copies of UK6 and XI as well as my copies of Dungeonscape, Libris Mortis, and Monster Manual V to Whyte Knight. I sold the v.3.5 books for $30 and got $15 in trade for the other books. I traded for Hall of Heroes [FR7].

I wasn't done there. I stopped by Wee Book Inn on the way home and bought the copy of the Alternity Dark*Matter Campaign Setting that has been in the store, mocking me, for several weeks (for $23.05).

So, I used CAN $38.05 of my own money as well as my v.3.5 books to acquire Dark*Matter, Hall of Heroes, Kingdoms of Kalamar, Oasis of the White Palm, Star*Drive, and The Bane of Llywelyn (roughly $6.35 each). Plus, I still have UK6 and X1, just different copies of them (FYI... one better [X1], one worse [UK6]).

I'd call that good day.


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## Knightfall (Apr 30, 2009)

*Side Note*
Today, I got the "The Fright at Tristor" adventure module that Croesus sent me for free!

*Croesus, You Rock!*


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## Knightfall (Apr 30, 2009)

Time to start reading the Kalamar book. 

Later all,

KF


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## Knightfall (May 2, 2009)

I went to Wizard's once again... I keep finding new books I want in there 50% discount shelf. It turns out the have Axe of the Dwarvish Lord, several 2e Realms accessories I'm seriously considering as well as The Dying Earth RPG.

Damn!!! I need more green!

Anyway, here are today's discounted purchases...

KALAMAR: Secrets of the Alubelok Coast [v3.5]
PLANESCAPE: Harbinger House (*)
RAVENLOFT: Children of the Night: Werebeasts
RAVENLOFT: Dark of the Moon [RM4] (*)
RAVENLOFT: Evil Eye, The (*)
I got all that for CAN $32.45 instead of $64.90. 

Anyway, I'm really tired so I'm going to sleep for a couple of hours. Today, I went to a used book store, garage sale, and a thrift store called Value Village as well as Wizard's.

Later,

KF

*In the original shrinkwrap.


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Last night, my mom dropped off more books for me to sell. Three bags of books (*) and VHS tapes. *Cookbooks and novels.

Therefore, I spent today selling as many of them as I could. I made just over $15. 

The end result, I used the cash to buy a copy of the Forgotten Realms Adventures hardcover.


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## Wereserpent (May 3, 2009)

It is like where you live is a black hole that sucks all old gaming books into it.


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Galeros said:


> It is like where you live is a black hole that sucks all old gaming books into it.



Well, when it comes to some of the 2e books and boxed sets, I'm finding it fairly easy to find things I'm looking for. Yes, Whyte Knight has a lot, but the store doesn't have everything. (Trying to find 1e hardcovers or BECMI boxed sets and rulebooks isn't that easy, for example.)

So, when I came upon the Ravenloft stuff at Wizard's, I decided I needed to get as much of it as I can as fast as I can. (Four more, at least, to go.) 

Wee Book Inn (WBI) is great, but I have to check each store at least once or twice a month to make sure I don't miss anything. (And then, I need to have the assets to acquire the best books.) The best game books in those stores come and go really fast!

For example, before I began this whole process, I noticed both the 1e Player's Handbook and the 1e Monster Manual II at one of the WBIs. I wasn't thinking I'd want them, at the time, but now I'm thinking it might have been a good idea to buy them. They disappeared quickly.

And just recently, the downtown store had (and possibly still does have) a copy of the 4e PHB. However, since I don't play 4e, I decided to go for the Dark*Matter Campaign Setting hardcover for Alternity instead. It was tempting, but I resisted. It will likely be gone the next time I go in there.

That store also has nearly a dozen Robotech books. Someone must have brought in their entire collection to WBI. That does happen sometimes. (Palladium books tend to sit and collect dust.)

Another example, Alhambra Books, another used book store just south of Whyte Avenue, currently has a BIG book for Champions (a core book, I think) and several books for Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay.

The owner just got the WH Fantasy Roleplay books, so I haven't really looked at them in detail. One of them is called Dwarf Lords, or something like that, and she's asking CAN $129 for it.


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## Dimitri Mazieres (May 3, 2009)

What you will certainly need after you finish RPG-buying rampage through town, is a new pair of shoes, KF.


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Dimitri Mazieres said:


> What you will certainly need after you finish RPG-buying rampage through town, is a new pair of shoes, KF.



Heh.

They're already pretty worn out. I always wear out boots/shoes to the point of them coming apart. I only replace them when water seeps into them easily.


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Picture time...






Hardcovers





Accessories​


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

And...





Adventures​


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Note that I'm not very attached to the "Oasis of the White Palm" module I got for $5 (*). I had planned to trade it to WK with the other modules I traded away there, but the owner already had several copies of the module so he wasn't willing to give me much for it.

Thus, I hung on to it.

I'd likely trade it away for another old school BECMI module, to anyone who wants it. These are my BECMI must haves: B10, CM3, DDA1, and X10. Also, if anyone has a copy of Thunder Rift they don't want I'd definitely take that. (From what I understand, Thunder Rift isn't a very popular book with BECMI fans. Is that correct?)

*I want the supermodule version of Deserts of Desolation, instead.


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## Wereserpent (May 3, 2009)

Yup, were you live is clearly a black hole for all old gaming material.


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Galeros said:


> Yup, were you live is clearly a black hole for all old gaming material.



I'd be more than happy to give a guided tour through the the city's game and used book stores to anyone who wants to visit Edmonton.

Don't come here in the winter, however. High summer is best unless you like to ski. Jasper, Alberta, is close by in the mountains and is one of the province's best tourist traps... err, attactions.


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## Wereserpent (May 3, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> I'd be more than happy to give a guided tour through the the city's game and used book stores to anyone who wants to visit Edmonton.
> 
> Don't come here in the winter, however. High summer is best unless you like to ski. Jasper, Alberta, is close by in the mountains and is one of the province's best tourist traps... err, attactions.




If I ever get to visit Canada, Edmonton will be on the top of my list.

Anyways, how much do you get on average for the stuff you sell to any Used Book Stores? Most places do not seem to pay much.


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## Knightfall (May 3, 2009)

Galeros said:


> If I ever get to visit Canada, Edmonton will be on the top of my list.



If you do, make sure you convert your money first. Heh.



Galeros said:


> Anyways, how much do you get on average for the stuff you sell to any Used Book Stores? Most places do not seem to pay much.



It varies wildly. Right now, I can sell VHS tapes for 25 cents each. Normally it is 5 cents each, but WBI's owners felt the stores were running low. Good for me! 

Fiction books sell the best but WBI won't take hardcovers unless they are less than a year old. I think WBI buys books for roughly one-third the book's cover price but don't quote me on that.

I've sold cookbooks for as much as $2.50 each (not at WBI). However, that's not the norm. WBI won't take cookbooks that are more than 5 years old.

Almost all the used book stores in Edmonton give more value in trade than in coin. Some even give double value for trade.

Selling RPG books to Whyte Knight is less rewarding than trading RPG books there. The owner often gives more in trade value, which usually works out for me. However, there are some items in his store that aren't normally available to trade for.

Anything with a red price sticker, for example.

Plus, he doesn't like it when people try to trade him new stuff for old stuff, which I completely understand. There can be exceptions just like with any rule. However, the deal has to be really worth it to him otherwise he won't take it. Period.

WK has a bit of a monopoly on old school games (in relatively fair condition) in Edmonton. The used book stores get old school stuff from time to time but it usually isn't in the greatest condition. More often, WBI gets newer game books (i.e. D&D v.3.x) or OOP books that never gained a lot of popularity/sell value (i.e. Alternity, 3PP d20 books, etc).

WBI doesn't usually give very much for RPG books, I think. However, they take almost anything that comes there way because it sells so fast. (D&D books, of ANY edition, 'fly off the shelves'.)


----------



## Wereserpent (May 3, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> If you do, make sure you convert your money first. Heh.
> 
> 
> It varies wildly. Right now, I can sell VHS tapes for 25 cents each. Normally it is 5 cents each, but WBI's owners felt the stores were running low. Good for me!
> ...




Yeah, I have found that Used Book Stores where I am give me very little, maybe a dollar at the most, and will not even take a lot of books. I do not know if they will just let me trade one book for another. They have good stuff, but their sell back prices are terrible though.


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## Knightfall (May 4, 2009)

Galeros said:


> Yeah, I have found that Used Book Stores where I am give me very little, maybe a dollar at the most, and will not even take a lot of books. I do not know if they will just let me trade one book for another. They have good stuff, but their sell back prices are terrible though.



Since I'm selling my mom's old books, I'm happy with getting anything I can for them. I help her get rid of books and VHS tapes she doesn't need, and I get a little bit of cash that I can use towards getting books I want or use for buying groceries. 

I'm on a very fixed income, so I have to maximize my fundage as much as possible. Plus, carrying books around is good exercise, which helps with my battles against depression and obesity. I just have to make sure I don't push myself too hard since I have chronic pain too.


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## Wereserpent (May 4, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Since I'm selling my mom's old books, I'm happy with getting anything I can for them. I help her get rid of books and VHS tapes she doesn't need, and I get a little bit of cash that I can use towards getting books I want or use for buying groceries.




Yeah, anything you can get for them is cool, and it does help get rid of old stuff.



> I'm on a very fixed income, so I have to maximize my fundage as much as possible. Plus, carrying books around is good exercise, which helps with my battles against depression and obesity. I just have to make sure I don't push myself too hard since I have chronic pain too.




I Hope things get better for you.


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## Knightfall (May 5, 2009)

Galeros said:


> Yeah, anything you can get for them is cool, and it does help get rid of old stuff.



Yep. 



Galeros said:


> I Hope things get better for you.



Thanks Galeros.

And, feel free to comment on anything from my list in the Original Post.


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## jeffh (May 5, 2009)

First of all, let me back up everything that's been said about Edmonton. Several of the best places for gamers to shop that I know of (for gaming stuff, used books in general and some other things of related interest) are located within a couple blocks of each other around Whyte Avenue along with some decent used record shopping and lots of other cool stuff.

Now, comments on a few nearly random things on your list, with mild spoilers.

*D1-2*
Reasonably good dungeon crawling. Each has a couple of preliminary encounters leading up to a huge underground complex of some sort to explore, occasionally interact with the local politics of, but mainly kill things and take their stuff. There aren't that many Drow in it, though the very first encounter consists of being mobbed by them; those guys take center stage in D3 much more than in 1 and (especially) 2.

Any Gazetteer, and most BD&D Mystara stuff in general, is well worth it. However, there is a special place in Hell reserved just for whomever wrote Journey to the Rock, a linear runaround whose name is by no means its lamest feature. I rather like the Atruaghin one. Minrothad does indeed seem to be one of the rarer ones.

I remember Five Shall Be One as a pretty fun crawl, but one that asks the GM to run not one but _two_ fairly high-level wizards as DMPCs; find a way to avoid that.

Rod of Seven Parts is a mixed bag, a good variety of mini-adventures loosely linked by a common plot.


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## Knightfall (May 5, 2009)

I got two more books at Wizard's today...

Dragon Lords of Melniboné [d20] (CAN $7.50)
RAVENLOFT: Vecna Reborn (CAN $9.50)
I got another as well, but it's for someone else. Thus, I'm not going to mention it unless he wants to chime in about it. 

Now, excuse me while I leave myself a note...

*Note To Self:* Wizard's also has the Monstrous Arcana books: "I, Tyrant" and "The Sea Devils." There was also a copy of "Demihumans of the Realms" and "Wyrmskull Throne" and multiple copies of "Cloak & Dagger" and "Drizzt Do'Urden's Guide to the Underdark." They don't have "Dungeon Crawl: The Dungeon of Death" or "The Accursed Tower," however.

There was also these Dragonlance Fifth Age adventures: "Chaos Spawn" and "Rise of the Titans."


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## Knightfall (May 6, 2009)

jeffh said:


> First of all, let me back up everything that's been said about Edmonton. Several of the best places for gamers to shop that I know of (for gaming stuff, used books in general and some other things of related interest) are located within a couple blocks of each other around Whyte Avenue along with some decent used record shopping and lots of other cool stuff.



Whyte Avenue is a pretty amazing street. A lot of Edmontonians take it for granted and don't treat it with the respect it deserves. It's also a great festival area... The Fringe, out annual Blues festival, and Street Performers' Festival.)

However, I love it because of the book stores, gaming stores, and music stores. WARP 1 recently moved, so it's not part of the core area anymore but it's still close (9917 - 82 Avenue). Now, there is a comic store where WARP 1 used to be called Happy Harbor Comics.

HHC has gaming books too and the prices are usually better than WARP 1. The store doesn't have as much of a selection, however, but you can order in books if you want. The guy who runs HHC is a fairly decent fellow.

I've bought a couple of True20 books there. 



jeffh said:


> Now, comments on a few nearly random things on your list, with mild spoilers.
> 
> *D1-2*
> Reasonably good dungeon crawling. Each has a couple of preliminary encounters leading up to a huge underground complex of some sort to explore, occasionally interact with the local politics of, but mainly kill things and take their stuff. There aren't that many Drow in it, though the very first encounter consists of being mobbed by them; those guys take center stage in D3 much more than in 1 and (especially) 2.



Okay, so the drow in the module aren't the focus... the kuo-toa are. Good to know. If I get it, I should be able to replace the drow with morlocks. 



jeffh said:


> Any Gazetteer, and most BD&D Mystara stuff in general, is well worth it. However, there is a special place in Hell reserved just for whomever wrote Journey to the Rock, a linear runaround whose name is by no means its lamest feature. I rather like the Atruaghin one. Minrothad does indeed seem to be one of the rarer ones.



I like the idea of the gazetteers but the few that Whyte Knight has are fairly expensive. The Glantri gazetteer is CAN $30! (WK also has Ierendi, Karameikos, and the Atruaghin Clans.) Still, if I can't find a copy of the Glantri boxed set for 2e then I'll likely buy (or trade for) the Glantri gazetteer.

FYI... Journey to The Rock was written by Michael Malone. 



jeffh said:


> I remember Five Shall Be One as a pretty fun crawl, but one that asks the GM to run not one but _two_ fairly high-level wizards as DMPCs; find a way to avoid that.



I've avoided Five Shall Be One and Howl From the North because I've heard mixed opinions on the Greyhawk modules from the early 90s, especially the "Falcon" modules. What's your opinion on those (assuming you've used them)?

Note that I'm mainly interested in Border Watch from that time period.



jeffh said:


> Rod of Seven Parts is a mixed bag, a good variety of mini-adventures loosely linked by a common plot.



WK has Rod of the Seven Parts but the price the owner is asking for it is way beyond my price range. I'm not sure it's worth my time.


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## Knightfall (May 9, 2009)

*Today's update...*
I received an early birthday present from my dad today. He gave me money to buy some new pants and some books. Here's what I bought at Whyte Knight and Wizard's...

DARK SUN: Slave Tribes [DSR1] (CAN $12)
DRAGONSTAR: Smuggler's Run (CAN $9.95)
Dying Earth Roleplaying Game, The (CAN $15)
WK had some new (used) AD&D gamebooks and boxed sets on the shelves that weren't there before. ( I'm pretty sure.  ) Many of these are on my "to get" list(s).

A1-4 Scourge of Slave Lords (CAN $65) Yikes!!!
Astromundi Cluster, The [boxed set] (CAN $30) 
Black Spine [boxed adventure] ("got it")
Dragon's Crown [DSE1] [boxed adventure] (CAN $30)
Freedom [DS1] [boxed adventure]
Legend of Spelljammer, The [boxed set] (CAN $30)
PLANESCAPE Campaign Setting [boxed set] (CAN $75) (*)
Pirates of the Fallen Stars [FOR3]
Spellbound [boxed set] (CAN $40; I think)
Thri-Kreen of Athas (*)
World of Greyhawk [boxed set] (CAN $45) (**)
*I have these already but I figured I'd mention them here, regardless. 
**_Note to Self:_ Hmm... getting rid of my incomplete set (no box) was good timing, I guess. Now, do I get this one or hold out for the folio.


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## Knightfall (May 9, 2009)

Picture time...


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## Knightfall (May 9, 2009)

*Changes I've made to the list on the OP!*

*Added to "The Query List"*

DIABLO

Diablo II: The Awakening
DRAGONLANCE

Knight's Sword [DLQ1]
Flint's Axe [DLQ2]
Tree Lords [DLS2]
Oak Lords [DLS3]
Wild Elves [DLS4]
New Tales: The Land Reborn [DLT1]
FORGOTTEN REALMS

Ruins of Adventure [FRC1]
Curse of the Azure Bonds [FRC2]
Hordes of Dragonspear [FRQ2]
Doom of Daggerdale [FRQ3]
LANKHMAR

Swords of the Undercity [CA1]
Swords of Deceit [CA2]
SPELLJAMMER

Under The Dark Fist [SJA4] ("must have")
Goblins' Return [SJS1]
Heart of the Enemy [SJQ1]
*Deleted from "The Query List"*

Atruaghin Clans, The [GAZ14]
A Paladin in Hell
Empires of the Sands [FR3]
Midnight on Dagger Alley [MV1]
Minrothad Guilds, The [GAZ9]
Murky Deep, The [GA1]
Nightwatch: In the Living City [LC3]
ODYSSEY Tale of the Comet
Reunion
Road to Urik [DSQ1]
Tales of Enchantment [GA3]
*Added to my "To Get" List(s)*

Bastion of Faith ("got it")
Border Watch [WGM1]
City of Skulls, The [WGR6]
Country Sites
Haunted Halls of Eveningstar [FRQ1]
Lost Island of Castanamir, The [C3]
Merchant Houses of Amketch [DSM2]
Nightmare Keep [FA2]
Night of the Vampire [boxed CD adventure]
To Find a King [C4] ("got it")
Web of Illusion [RM2]


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## amethal (May 9, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> I got two more books at Wizard's today...
> 
> Dragon Lords of Melniboné [d20] (CAN $7.50)
> Vecna Reborn (CAN $9.50)
> ...



I was very impressed with The Sea Devils. Nice to see sahuagin get the attention they deserve, and in full colour to boot. (The three adventures are interesting as well, but very much second edition products; my D&D 3.5 group would organise a DM lynching if I ran them as written - very much "the next day you wake up in captivity without any of your equipment" territory.)

It also has the advantage, if you think that way, that there hasn't been a later edition equivalent. I Tyrant is fine, for example, but I also have Lords of Madness and think LoM is better.


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## Knightfall (May 10, 2009)

I noticed that I had still had some money of my own in my bank account, so I decided to return to WK and buy a few more items I wanted yesterday but didn't think I had the money for. 

Here's today's list...

DARK SUN: Black Spine (CAN $20)
HOLLOW WORLD: Milenian Empire, The [HWR3] (CAN $10)
LANKHMAR: Nehwon [LNA2] (CAN $15) (in original shrinkwrap)
I paid a little more than I wanted for these; however, they were some of the references I've wanted for some time but put off buying because I was hoping to find them cheaper elsewhere.

I also went to WK to confirm the prices of some of the other books/sets noted in my previous post. 

*EDIT:* I'm now official out of "game book buying" money until the end of the month. The rest has to go towards food.

Of course, that could change if anyone in my family gives me more books, LPs, or VHS tapes to trade away. Heh.


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## Knightfall (May 10, 2009)

amethal said:


> I was very impressed with The Sea Devils. Nice to see sahuagin get the attention they deserve, and in full colour to boot. (The three adventures are interesting as well, but very much second edition products; my D&D 3.5 group would organise a DM lynching if I ran them as written - very much "the next day you wake up in captivity without any of your equipment" territory.)



I had both "The Sea Devils" and "I, Tyrant" along with "The Illithiad" (which I now have again) back in the day. It was tough giving them up, but I didn't have a choice at the time.

I never had any of the Monstrous Arcana adventures, however. I never really warmed up to them. I know Wizard's has some of those adventures but I'm unlikely to purchase them since there are so many other books I want first that Wizard's has on the shelves.

The Ravenloft Van Ritchen monster hunter compliations, for example. The next time I can afford it, I'm getting all three of those. 



amethal said:


> It also has the advantage, if you think that way, that there hasn't been a later edition equivalent. I Tyrant is fine, for example, but I also have Lords of Madness and think LoM is better.



That's why I'm thinking that "The Sea Devils" is on my "to get" list. There isn't a 3e version, so I want that one again. I'm not sure about "I,Tyrant" since I have Lords of Madness. It is definitely the better book. I simply might get it to complete the trio.


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## Knightfall (May 11, 2009)

Picture time, once again...


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## Knightfall (May 11, 2009)

Inside the Black Spine...


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## Knightfall (May 15, 2009)

Added "Hellbound: The Blood War" to my "to get" list for Planescape.


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## Dyson Logos (May 15, 2009)

The Diablo II books for 3e were pretty interesting, but in the end there were some home conversions that did the job better for the classes.

The monsters, on the other hand, I pulled out fairly regularly in my games.


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## Knightfall (May 19, 2009)

Dyson Logos said:


> The Diablo II books for 3e were pretty interesting, but in the end there were some home conversions that did the job better for the classes.
> 
> The monsters, on the other hand, I pulled out fairly regularly in my games.



Do you have any experience with the 2e Diablo II book?

This one.


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## Knightfall (May 19, 2009)

Also...

I bought "X10 Red Arrow, Black Shield" today. It didn't have the modules "200 counters" but that's not a big loss since I'd most likely use it in a 3e Mystara campaign that would use the Malhavoc Press sourcebook, Cry Havoc, for large scale combat.

I got it mainly for the background information and to complete my Desert Nomad module trilogy collection. 

The color map of the Known World is pretty cool, however.


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## Dyson Logos (May 19, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Do you have any experience with the 2e Diablo II book?
> 
> This one.




Nosireebob. Only 2e I ever looked at was Dark Sun - and that was because I'm such a post-apocalyptic RPG fan.


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## Knightfall (May 19, 2009)

Dyson Logos said:


> Nosireebob. Only 2e I ever looked at was Dark Sun - and that was because I'm such a post-apocalyptic RPG fan.



No worries. It didn't hurt to ask. 

Which of the two 3e Diablo books is better?

Do they cover the same ground or is each one unique (i.e. classes, monsters, etc.)?


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## Knightfall (May 21, 2009)

I found this for 50 cents today...







...along with three other adventures for non-D&D RPGs. This one, I'm keeping.


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## Dyson Logos (May 21, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> No worries. It didn't hurt to ask.
> 
> Which of the two 3e Diablo books is better?
> 
> Do they cover the same ground or is each one unique (i.e. classes, monsters, etc.)?




Diablerie (the smaller one) has the character classes and magic items and some of the monsters.

To Hell & Back (the bigger one) has the adventures and all the monsters.

And congrats on the Fez find. Any / all of the role-aids books at anything under $10 a hit are worth getting.


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## Knightfall (May 26, 2009)

Dyson Logos said:


> Diablerie (the smaller one) has the character classes and magic items and some of the monsters.
> 
> To Hell & Back (the bigger one) has the adventures and all the monsters.



Hmm, it sounds like I'll be getting To Hell & Back. I don't really care about the character classes since I'd be using the monsters for World of Kulan. 



Dyson Logos said:


> And congrats on the Fez find. Any / all of the role-aids books at anything under $10 a hit are worth getting.



Thanks. 

There are few of the Role Aids books and boxed sets that I'm considering. I'm fairly certain I want "Witches" and all three of the _Monsters of Myth & Legend_ sourcebooks as well as the adventure called "Beneath Two Suns" and maybe the accessory called "Lizardmen" and the adventures called "Clockwork Mage," "Lich Lords," "Swordthrust," and "War of Darkness."

I'll likely look at getting the "Demons" and "Demons II" boxed sets (if I can find them at a reasonable price) as well as the "Denizens of" monster expansions for those two boxed sets. (I think I'm more likely to get the monster expansions first.)


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## Knightfall (May 26, 2009)

*Update!*
Here are today's "old school" purchases...

C4 To Find a King (CAN $10)
DSR3 Veiled Alliance (CAN $12)
GAZ3 The Principalities of Glantri [GAZ3] (CAN $30)
Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium, Volume One (CAN $18.50)
Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium, Volume Two (CAN $18.50)
Van Richten's Monster Hunter's Compendium, Volume Three (CAN $18.50)


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## Dyson Logos (May 27, 2009)

Glantri is a very interesting book because it has the first occurrence of prestige classes for BECMI D&D (and usable in B/X also). I can see why it was listing at $30. It also explains what happened to the spaceship that crashed in Blackmoor and how it will spell the end of the world if the Glantri wizards aren't kept in check.


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## Knightfall (May 27, 2009)

Dyson Logos said:


> Glantri is a very interesting book because it has the first occurrence of prestige classes for BECMI D&D (and usable in B/X also). I can see why it was listing at $30. It also explains what happened to the spaceship that crashed in Blackmoor and how it will spell the end of the world if the Glantri wizards aren't kept in check.



I've been considering getting it for months. I always balked at the price but one of the Acaeum gurus thought it was an okay purchase at that price since I'd more than likely have to pay for shipping from the States if I bought a copy on Ebay.

I'm glad I have it. Plus, it came with an extra cover and a extra copy of the map; although, those bonus tidbits are is pretty rought shape. Still, I could always send them to someone who have the gazetteer but is missing the cover and/or map.


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## Knightfall (May 27, 2009)

Picture time...





Van Ritchen Compendiums: One, Two, and Three





The Principalities of Glantri, To Find a King [C4], and Veiled Alliance​


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

Some other great finds...

Dragon #59
Dragon #76
Dragon #81
Dragon #100
Dragon #105
Dragon #107
Dragon #113
Dragon #126
Dragon #127
Dragon #136
Dragon #180

Dungeon #41
I paid $1 each for these.

I also found another Role Aids product I wanted, "Demons: Denizens of Vecheron". (I paid around CAN $7 for it.) Very cool. 

EDIT: I forgot. I also found a copy of the Birthright boxed campaign expansion "Cities of the Sun" today. I got that one for CAN $18.


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## Flynn (May 28, 2009)

For the Role-Aids stuff, have you seen this offer yet?
http://www.mayfairgames.com/shop-special/roleaids/mfg-ra.html

It's a great way to get a load of the material at an incredible savings.

Hope It Helps,
Flynn


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

Flynn said:


> For the Role-Aids stuff, have you seen this offer yet?
> http://www.mayfairgames.com/shop-special/roleaids/mfg-ra.html
> 
> It's a great way to get a load of the material at an incredible savings.
> ...



Yeah, I'm aware of those deals. I haven't decided what I want yet. However, I'm leaning towards Adventures Set 8.


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## Silversun (May 28, 2009)

Went to have lunch with my sister in Bridgeport earlier today. I noticed a sign in Bayard on the way home for a Garage sale. 

To my surprise I found thee 2nd Edition monster books and one D&D gazetteer in a lot for only $10. What a find! They aren't exactly in the best shape (the Gazetteer has seen heavy use and the monster books have info written in them) but it's still nice to find some stuff that I can eventually put to use.


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## Silversun (May 28, 2009)

Flynn said:


> For the Role-Aids stuff, have you seen this offer yet?
> http://www.mayfairgames.com/shop-special/roleaids/mfg-ra.html




I think the Source & Backgrounds Set is the only one available as I tried to put the rest of the sets in my cart and given the following notification: There is not enough product in stock to place in your cart, and this product cannot be backordered.


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

Silversun said:


> Went to have lunch with my sister in Bridgeport earlier today. I noticed a sign in Bayard on the way home for a Garage sale.
> 
> To my surprise I found thee 2nd Edition monster books and one D&D gazetteer in a lot for only $10. What a find! They aren't exactly in the best shape (the Gazetteer has seen heavy use and the monster books have info written in them) but it's still nice to find some stuff that I can eventually put to use.



The MYSTARA Monster Compendium Appendix is a great monster resource regardless of edition. It's my favorite 2e monster reference. You'll get a lot of use out of that book.


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## Silversun (May 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> The MYSTARA Monster Compendium Appendix is a great monster resource regardless of edition. It's my favorite 2e monster reference. You'll get a lot of use out of that book.




Yup, there are some monsters in there that have already caught my attention; Actaeon, Baldanar, Cooltpixy, Darkhood, Drolem Golem, Silver Golem, Hutaakan, Phanaton, Rakasta and the Sollux. 

I can't wait for the Pathfinder bestiary comes out so that I can convert them for my homebrew I'm creating. Until then, I'm gonna take a whack at updating them for 4E.


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

Silversun said:


> I think the Source & Backgrounds Set is the only one available as I tried to put the rest of the sets in my cart and given the following notification: There is not enough product in stock to place in your cart, and this product cannot be backordered.



Yeah, it just did that to me too.


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

Silversun said:


> Yup, there are some monsters in there that have already caught my attention; Actaeon, Baldanar, Cooltpixy, Darkhood, Drolem Golem, Silver Golem, Hutaakan, Phanaton, Rakasta and the Sollux.
> 
> I can't wait for the Pathfinder bestiary comes out so that I can convert them for my homebrew I'm creating. Until then, I'm gonna take a whack at updating them for 4E.



Sounds interesting. While I'm not into 4e, I'd definitely be interested in seeing your Pathfinder conversions when the PFRPG Bestiary comes out. ( I really want that book and the PFRPG core book.  ) You'll be posting your conversions here on EN World, right?


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## Silversun (May 28, 2009)

Knightfall said:


> Sounds interesting. While I'm not into 4e, I'd definitely be interested in seeing your Pathfinder conversions when the PFRPG Bestiary comes out. ( I really want that book and the PFRPG core book.  ) You'll be posting your conversions here on EN World, right?



It'll be a slow process, but yeah I can post 'em up. 

Monsters aren't one of my strong points, so working on the baddies will help to get any of the kinks out of my system. It would be nice to be able to master monster creation and conversion.


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

It's picture time once again...






BIRTHRIGHT Cities of the Sun





Demons: Denizens of Vecheron​
Hmm, I need to find a better binder for the monster folio.


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## Knightfall (May 28, 2009)

Dragons and Dungeon...





Dragon #59, #76, #81, #100 , #105, #107, #113, #126, #127, #136, #180; Dungeon #41​
Dungeon #41 is great! It has a Greyhawk and Spelljammer adventure in it.


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## Silversun (May 29, 2009)

Man, talk about your strolls down memory lane.

I used to have every Birthright produc up until a certain point.t. Then my parents heard about D&D from neighbors and how it corrupts the young. They decided to take all my D&D material and burn it. Boy, was I pissed. They told me that I wouldn't be allowed to own any D&D products as long as I lived under their roof. I couldn't wait to move out! 

I'm still rebuilding the collection I used to have, only costing me a lot more now!


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## M.L. Martin (May 29, 2009)

All three VRMHCs? That's almost too much of a great thing. Taking too much van Richten at once has been known to cause devilish DM scheming, 2nd Edition nostalgia, and a tendency towards overwrought gothic declamations. 

DRAGON #113 was one of the first two issues of DRAGON I ever owned, and #126 has a bunch of cool articles, including AD&D _and_ Marvel Super Heroes stats for Dracula himself.


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## Knightfall (May 29, 2009)

Silversun said:


> Man, talk about your strolls down memory lane.
> 
> I used to have every Birthright product up until a certain point. Then my parents heard about D&D from neighbors and how it corrupts the young. They decided to take all my D&D material and burn it. Boy, was I pissed. They told me that I wouldn't be allowed to own any D&D products as long as I lived under their roof. I couldn't wait to move out!



Dude, I'd have disowned my parents if they had tried that!!!

I guess I was lucky. They asked me about the game, but they didn't judge it based on rumors. The fact that the game made me more interested in history, mythology, and reading/writing in general was a big plus in my parents eyes. ( I played up the math angle too.  )



Silversun said:


> I'm still rebuilding the collection I used to have, only costing me a lot more now!



I do know how that feels. I made the mistake of selling my 2e collection about 10 years ago. I didn't really have a choice at the time but I wish I hadn't done it. 

Still, I've been lucky with some of the books I've been able to find at the prices I've paid.


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## Knightfall (May 29, 2009)

Matthew L. Martin said:


> All three VRMHCs? That's almost too much of a great thing. Taking too much van Richten at once has been known to cause devilish DM scheming, 2nd Edition nostalgia, and a tendency towards overwrought gothic declamations.



Bwah-hah-hah! 



Matthew L. Martin said:


> DRAGON #113 was one of the first two issues of DRAGON I ever owned, and #126 has a bunch of cool articles, including AD&D _and_ Marvel Super Heroes stats for Dracula himself.



I haven't really looked at the DRAGON Magazines yet. I'm keen on starting with #100 since that has a Gord the Rogue story in it as well as a Pages from the Mages article.

I'm actually heading out to hunt for other older DRAGON Magazines.

Later,

KF


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## freyar (May 30, 2009)

Silversun said:


> Yup, there are some monsters in there that have already caught my attention; Actaeon, Baldanar, Cooltpixy, Darkhood, Drolem Golem, Silver Golem, Hutaakan, Phanaton, Rakasta and the Sollux.
> 
> I can't wait for the Pathfinder bestiary comes out so that I can convert them for my homebrew I'm creating. Until then, I'm gonna take a whack at updating them for 4E.




A number of these are Creature Catalog in 3.5 conversions.  Might help with your Pathfinder updates (and the Drolem is apparently about the same as the Ironwyrm golem in the 3.5 Draconomicon).


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## amethal (May 30, 2009)

Silversun said:


> Then my parents heard about D&D from neighbors and how it corrupts the young. They decided to take all my D&D material and burn it. Boy, was I pissed. They told me that I wouldn't be allowed to own any D&D products as long as I lived under their roof. I couldn't wait to move out!



My parents weren't perfect, but when they heard D&D corrupts the young they looked into it for themselves and realised that was rubbish.

I guess I should appreciate them a bit more!


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## Knightfall (Jun 2, 2009)

Whyte Knight has some new "old school" modules. I picked up this one today for CAN $8...

In the Phantom's Wake


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## Knightfall (Nov 15, 2010)

[MENTION=232]Crothian[/MENTION]

I finally found a copy of the main TMNT book from Palladium.


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2010)

Awesome, if you can find some of the other suppliments for cheap they are worth it.  It's a fun game (though not balanced!).  I love the randiom ness of character generation.  If you allow the players to pick the type of mutant animal they are then the game tends to break down as they can easily grab the most powerful.


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## crazy_monkey1956 (Nov 15, 2010)

You can grab all of the After the Bomb series of supplements for TMNT from the Palladium online store for a reasonable price.


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## Knightfall (Nov 16, 2010)

Crothian said:


> Awesome, if you can find some of the other suppliments for cheap they are worth it.  It's a fun game (though not balanced!).  I love the randiom ness of character generation.  If you allow the players to pick the type of mutant animal they are then the game tends to break down as they can easily grab the most powerful.



Well, Wee Book Inn didn't have any of the other TMNT books, but they did have a few of the Palladium Fantasy RPG books.

I'm fairly certain that there were copies of both The Baalgor Wastelands and The Library at Bletherad. I couldn't remember which PFRPG books you had recommended, plus I was distracted by the TMNT book. 

FYI... I went to two of the other Wee Book Inn locations today. I got three Kalamar adventures and four MegaTraveller books.


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## Knightfall (Nov 17, 2010)

*NOTE:* The "Master Query List" in the first post has been updated based on this thread on The Piazza.

Some of the references that were on my original list have been deleted while others have been re-added. The re-adds were to get additional opinions from The Piazza regulars.

Also, I've kind of lost track of the whole situation.


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## havard (Nov 18, 2010)

Knightfall said:


> p.s. [MENTION=20941]havard[/MENTION] : See where the insanity started. Heh.
> ]




Been doing this for a while, have you? 

-Havard


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## Knightfall (Nov 19, 2010)

havard said:


> Been doing this for a while, have you?
> 
> -Havard



Yep, and there is an even older version of the thread...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...ut-these-older-edition-products-old-list.html

I've been using them to help get a better "feel" for the pre-2e D&D editions and various 2e books I had little/no experience with back in the day. (Since I started with 2e AD&D, I had almost no knowledge of OD&D or BECMI and very little knowledge of 1e AD&D.)

The threads made me a convert of BECMI and got me to buy Castles & Crusades. The 1e books I now have will likely be used in conjunction with C&C. (I also discovered OSRIC, but I'm not sure if I want to use that set of rules.)


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## Knightfall (Nov 20, 2010)

Got all these eariler today (or yesterday depending on your time zone)...

Castle Spulzeer (*)
Cutthroats of Lankhmar (*)
Gladiator's Handbook
Rogues in Lankhmar (*)
Sons of Azca
Tales of the Lance [boxed set] (missing screen) 
Under The Dark Fist
*Still in original shrinkwrap.


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## Knightfall (Nov 21, 2010)

Bought these today...

Age of Heroes
Wilderness Survival Guide
I also bought a FR 3E module called "Into the Dragon's Lair." I thought it was a 2E adventure when I got it because it looked like a 2E adventure. Not that I mind, it's based on the novel Death of the Dragon, which I liked. I'll likely shoehorn it into my Kulan campaign, somehow.

I also discovered a copy of "The Dungeon of Graves: The Upper Levels," which is the first of the Rappan Athuk d20 modules. I'm 99% certain that a FLGS has the second module (and maybe the third).


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## Knightfall (Nov 27, 2010)

I traded away most of my 4e books today. (I'm keeping some of the better books, however.) I was able to get these older edition references although I had to pay part of the difference.

1e AD&D Day of Al'Akbar
FORGOTTEN REALMS The Horde [boxed set] - excellent condition
GREYHAWK Vecna Lives!
HOLLOW WORLD The Milenian Scepter
SPELLJAMMER Wildspace
I also got Darkness & Dread, one of the FFG Legends & Lairs sourcebooks, in the deal.

After that, I headed over to one of Edmonton's used bookstores. My timing was perfect. The store had a whole bunch of "new arrivals" on the gaming shelf. First, I noticed several D&D 3e books including "Drow of the Underdark," which I was all set to buy until I noticed a whole bunch of Green Ronin books.

I discovered both "Aasimar & Tiefling" and "Skull & Bones" almost immediately but then I noticed something better... "The Book of Fiends." The hardcover version.

I almost jumped for joy!

After years of looking for it through tons of local bookstores, I'd finally found a copy. But my excitement didn't end there.

I took a closer look throughout all the surrounding shelves just to make sure I hadn't missed any other gems. I discovered another shelf 3/4 full with d20 books. I was amazed to find a copy of the "Iron Kingdoms Character Guide."

There were so many options that I was tempted to buy them all. But I couldn't. I had to restrain myself. I decided to buy two books...

The Book of Fiends
Iron Kingdoms Character Guide

...for now.

I'm hoping to go back this weekend and trade some books I don't need for a few other things. I'm hoping to get the two Green Ronin books and "Monsternomicon: Volume 2: The Iron Kingdoms and Beyond," at least. There was also a copy of the second edition of Midnight (as well as tons of other Midnight sourcebooks including a boxed set.)

Stay tuned!

KF


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