# Converting Maztica and Horde monsters



## BOZ (Jan 1, 2004)

This thread continues my idea of “cooperative conversions” started in this thread, converting a series of monsters from similar sources. For this thread, we will be focusing on monsters that first appeared in the Forgotten Realms offshoot settings’ – Maztica and the Horde - products.

What I will do is first post the creature’s original stats and flavor text. Then, I will post a basic outline of the things I think it needs, and then I will give you an opportunity to suggest stats and ideas on how powers and abilities should work. Then, I will add more to it and we will continue to discuss it until I feel it’s done and time to move on to the next. As we work on these creatures, they will be posted in this thread, and after 10 conversions are complete they will be added to the Creature Catalog. You may comment on monsters already finished, of course.

The following is a list of monsters from Maztica and the Horde that haven’t yet appeared in official WotC products, the Tome of Horrors, or the Creature Catalog. You may feel free to make suggestions, but ultimately I will pick what to convert and when. If I’m missing any monsters from this list or if any of these have appeared elsewhere already, feel free to inform me.

*Maztica*

Maztica Campaign Setting
Plumazotl

FMA1 – Fires of Zatal
Ahuizotl 
Tabaxi - Jaguar Lord

FMA2 – Endless Armies
Bacar

FMQ1 – City of Gold
Pasocada Ghost


*The Horde*

The Horde Campaign Setting
Centaur, Nomadic

Dragon Magazine #163 (pullout section)
Manni
Morin

FRA3 – Blood Charge
Dowagu
Ambuchar Devayam/Tan Chin


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## BOZ (Jan 1, 2004)

so, want to start with maztica or horde?    we can always switch back and forth between the two.


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## Filby (Jan 1, 2004)

For my part, I'd say Maztica...

Out of curiosity, will you be using the (Spirit) subtype from _Oriental Adventures_ if you convert the manggus, the shimnus, and Monkey?


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## BOZ (Jan 1, 2004)

yes, i was thinking that was a good idea.  

so... maztica first eh?


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## Krishnath (Jan 1, 2004)

Give me the dragon stats, and I'll get around to them, well at least the Rain Dragon 

Edit: Wasn't there a couple of Maztica Monstrous compendeums? I have a distinct memory of a feathered dragon...(maybe I'm just imagening things again )


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## BOZ (Jan 1, 2004)

as far as i know, the only monsters created for these limited settings are what you see listed above.  therefore, this thread has a very finite purpose.


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## Krishnath (Jan 1, 2004)

Nice, then I can do a feathered dragon to my campaign


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## Shade (Jan 2, 2004)

Ahuizotl is in the Fiend Folio.


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## BOZ (Jan 2, 2004)

well, yes it is... but the FF ahuizolt is a very different creature from the maztica one.  i'll start a creature tonight, and maybe later i will post the maztica ahuizotl's stats for comparison.


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## BOZ (Jan 3, 2004)

ok, here we go!

Chac

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Mountain caves
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Clan
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Special
INTELLIGENCE: Very high (11-14)
TREASURE: Special
ALIGNMENT: Lawful neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1-4

ARMOR CLASS: 4
MOVEMENT: 12, Fl 12
HIT DICE: 5
THAC0: 15
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3/1-3/1-3
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 30%
SIZE: M (5'-7' tall)
MORALE: Steady
XP VALUE:

Chacs look much like slender jaguars. They generally travel on all fours, but they may assume a bipedal stance as well where upon they look much like werejaguars.

These spirits help control the rains in Maztica. From their cave lairs high in the mountains, they send rain out to the countryside. Those rare people who see a chac will observe tears trickling incessantly down its cheeks. This is not from any kind of sadness, but rather a sign of the creature's aquatic affinities.

Chacs are associated with a certain color, depending on where they live. Those in northern Maztica are associated with blue, those in the east with black, those in the south with red, and those in the west with yellow. Chacs in central Maztica are associated with green. A chac's eyes are of the appropriate color, and when one assumes gaseous form the mist is tinted with that same color. Thus, a chac in southern Maztica has red eyes, and its mist is reddish.

COMBAT: Chacs always seek to avoid combat, fighting only if they are threatened and no escape is possible. They possess magical abilities which they will use to protect themselves if need be. A chac can cast spells as if it were a 5th level priest of Azul, but can cast only water-related spells from the elemental sphere. In addition, they can cast weather summoning once per week, and assume gaseous form (as per the potion) four times per day.

HABITAT/SOCIETY: These creatures are nonviolent by nature, preferring to use their magical powers to govern the weather near their lairs. Though they use spells as if they were priests of Azul, only half are actually servants of the Giver of Rain and Taker of Breath. Those that serve Azul directly have evil tendencies, and some of these share lairs with rain dragons, or tlalocoatl. Most chacs may be appeased by local natives through gifts of food, while evil members of their race, especially those living with tlalocoatls, often demand a sacrifice of some sort.

If more than one chac is encountered, it will usually be a family group; with one male, one female, and one or two offspring (equal chance of either sex). Chacs have an elaborate mating ritual, involving merging essences while in gaseous form. The birth of a baby chac takes place a year later, and is often celebrated by all nearby chacs, who gather and produce a tremendous rainstorm.

Chacs tend to live long lives, some reaching ages of 100 years or more. A young chac stays with its parents until it reaches maturity (about five years). The death of a chac is generally followed by a drought of 1-4 weeks in length while nearby chacs are mourning, though some droughts last longer or are influenced by tlalocoatls.

Chacs are very shy and reclusive, and almost always avoid direct contact with intelligent humanoid life. Too many of their legends tell of chacs being captured by humans and harmed if they refused to produce rain in accordance with the whims of their captors. If a chac is captured, and other chacs find the identities of the offenders, they bring their combined powers to bear on the perpetrators, causing flooding or drought until the offenders release the prisoner and atone for their actions.

ECOLOGY: Chacs eat a combination of things, including meat and cocoa beans, but water is their main source of nourishment.

Chacs always have a hoard of 100-1000 cocoa beans in their lair, and they use the beans to produce a chocolate drink of which they are very fond. Chacs also collect art objects, especially carved jade and turquoise, but rarely of gold or other metal. A typical chac lair contains art pieces worth 200-800 gq.

Chacs have no natural enemies, and they get along with most denizens of their areas. However, a rain dragon will sometimes attack a chac to gain the moisture in its body. The rare humans who find chacs will sometimes seek to capture it, thinking to thus gain control over the rains.

Chac skin may be used as a material component for potions of gaseous form or sweetwater, while their claws are useful for some forms of hishna magic.




some preliminary stats for the chac:

*Chac*
Medium Fey? (Shapechanger?)
Hit Dice: 5d(4)+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares), fly 30 ft (perfect?)
Armor Class: 16 (+X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: 
Full Attack: 2 claws and bite? (1d3 each)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: spell-like abilities, spells
Special Qualities: gaseous form, spell resistance 17
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X 
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int 13, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: X
Feats: X

Environment: Warm mountains
Organization: Solitary or family (2-4)
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: ?
Alignment: Usually lawful neutral
Advancement: 9-16 HD (Medium); 17-24 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: +X



COMBAT



Originally found in the Maztica Campaign Setting boxed set


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## Krishnath (Jan 3, 2004)

Definetly a fey, thus it should have 5d6 HD. Shapechanger subtype fits as well.

30% SR is the same as Sr equal to CR+6.

Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 15?


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## Shade (Jan 5, 2004)

Here are some attempts at the chac's abilities:

Gaseous Form (Su): Four times per day, as a standard action, a chac can assume gaseous form as the spell (caster level Xth), but it has a fly speed of 20 feet with perfect maneuverability.  When in this form, the mist is tinted the same color as the chac's eyes.

Control Rain (Sp):  Once per week, a chac can use control weather as the spell (caster level Xth), except that it can only create rain effects.

Spells: Chacs can cast divine spells as 5th-level clerics. A chac has access to the following domains: Air and Water. The save DCs are Wisdom-based.

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (5/3+1/23+1/13+1; save DC X + spell level): 0--?; 1st--?; 2nd--?; 3rd--?. 
*Domain spell. Domains: Air and Water.


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## BOZ (Jan 5, 2004)

Krishnath said:
			
		

> 30% SR is the same as Sr equal to CR+6.




that would actually make it lower than 17 then wouldn't it?


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## Tzeentch (Jan 8, 2004)

Chac
Medium Fey (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 5d6+5 (22 hp)
Initiative: +2
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares), fly 30 ft. (perfect)
Armor Class: 18 (+2 Dex, +6 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +2/+2
Attack: Claw +4 melee (1d6)
Full Attack: 2 claws +4 melee (1d6) and bite -1 melee (1d4)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: ?
Special Qualities: ?
Saves: Fort +2, Ref +6, Will +5
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 15, Con 12, Int 13, Wis 12, Cha 15
Skills: 56
Feats: 2
Environment: Warm mountains
Organization: Solitary or family (2-4)
Challenge Rating: ?
Treasure: ?
Alignment: Usually lawful neutral
Advancement: 6-9 HD (Medium); 10-20 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: +?

Feats: Maybe Weapon Focus (claws) and Improved Initiative?
Skills: Maybe Appraise +8, Concentration +8, Diplomacy +9, Listen +8, Sense Motive +8, Spellcraft +8, Spot +8, Survival +8


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## BOZ (Jan 8, 2004)

Not sure how you got your attack bonuses, but I thought about it and realized that weapon finesse is an almost necessary feat for the chac.  

Sorry about not getting to all of these monsters I started yet… wasn’t expecting to be very busy, but I got really busy really quickly anyway.


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## Krishnath (Jan 8, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> that would actually make it lower than 17 then wouldn't it?




Yes.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Sorry about not getting to all of these monsters I started yet… wasn’t expecting to be very busy, but I got really busy really quickly anyway.




Don't worry about it.


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## Tzeentch (Jan 8, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Not sure how you got your attack bonuses, but I thought about it and realized that weapon finesse is an almost necessary feat for the chac.



+2 BAB from monster HD, +2 from DX. The oops is I include the bonus from Weapon Finesse it appears


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## BOZ (Jan 8, 2004)

not a problem, i saw where you were coming from.


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## Tzeentch (Jan 9, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> not a problem, i saw where you were coming from.




-- Instead of simply giving them all Cleric 5 spells, why not simply say the average Chac is a level 5 Cleric? That matches the HD total and significantly simplifies their level adjustment (as then they just have their turn to gas and possibly rain abilities).


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## Krishnath (Jan 9, 2004)

Because, even if all Chac can cast spells as a cleric, not all chac advance as such. I think it would be best to write it as:

*spells:* Chac cast spells as 5th level clerics with access to the ? and ? domains.

The best domains to choose would be Air and Law IMHO.


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## BOZ (Jan 9, 2004)

not water?


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## Krishnath (Jan 9, 2004)

Well we could give them Air and Water...


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## Shade (Jan 9, 2004)

Scroll up.  I got ya covered.


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## Krishnath (Jan 10, 2004)

Oops, missed that


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## BOZ (Jan 12, 2004)

ok, posting a chac here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=66577&page=2


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## Krishnath (Jan 12, 2004)

Looks nice, what's next?


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## BOZ (Jan 12, 2004)

got to finish it up.


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## Shade (Jan 12, 2004)

Suggested Skill Ranks:  Concentration 8, Diplomacy 8, Escape Artist 8, Hide 8, Knowledge (nature) 8, Move Silently 8, Sense Motive 8

Feats:  Weapon Finesse and Improved Initiative (or Dodge and Mobility--they like to flee)

CR:  5?  (Doens't the ability to cast spells as an Xth-level spellcaster usually require at least that CR?)  Their other abilities don't really warrant a CR increase.

Treasure:  Standard

Weight:   A jaguar is fairly comparable to a leopard which weighs 120 lbs.  Since a chac resembles a "slender jaguar", this should work.

Chacs speak Common and Sylvan.

Caster level 10th for spell-likes?

Spells: Chacs can cast divine spells as 5th-level clerics. A chac has access to the following domains: Air and Water. The save DCs are Wisdom-based.

Typical Cleric Spells Prepared (5/4+1/2+1/1+1; save DC 11 + spell level): 0--create water, detect magic, detect poison, purify food and drink, read magic; 1st--bless water, entropic shield, obscuring mist*, sanctuary, summon monster I; 2nd--owl's wisdom, resist energy, wind wall*; 3rd--summon monster III, water breathing*. 
*Domain spell. Domains: Air and Water.


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## BOZ (Jan 13, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> Treasure:  Standard




are you sure?

"Chacs always have a hoard of 100-1000 cocoa beans in their lair, and they use the beans to produce a chocolate drink of which they are very fond. Chacs also collect art objects, especially carved jade and turquoise, but rarely of gold or other metal. A typical chac lair contains art pieces worth 200-800 gq."


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## BOZ (Jan 13, 2004)

updated posting.


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## Shade (Jan 13, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> are you sure?
> 
> "Chacs always have a hoard of 100-1000 cocoa beans in their lair, and they use the beans to produce a chocolate drink of which they are very fond. Chacs also collect art objects, especially carved jade and turquoise, but rarely of gold or other metal. A typical chac lair contains art pieces worth 200-800 gq."




Oops.  Perhaps this would be more appropriate:

No coins; standard goods; no items


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## BOZ (Jan 13, 2004)

that's better.


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## Krishnath (Jan 13, 2004)

Useless Fact: Cocoa beans where used by Inkans and Mayans as a sort of coinage...


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## BOZ (Jan 13, 2004)

maybe i should leave that reference in, in case someone's campaign uses that fact.


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## Shade (Jan 13, 2004)

Yeah, it adds "flavor".


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## Krishnath (Jan 13, 2004)

Flavor = Good.

And besides, I did say it was a useless fact.


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## Shade (Jan 13, 2004)

Flavor does equal good, especially cocoa flavor.    

And I think it is cool to have some trading of goods from time to time rather than every critter in the multiverse having four kinds of coins.


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## BOZ (Jan 13, 2004)

LOL  ok, updating... how's it look?


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## Shade (Jan 13, 2004)

It still needs a weight and an LA.   

For Weight: A jaguar is fairly comparable to a leopard which weighs 120 lbs. Since a chac resembles a "slender jaguar", this should work.

LA +3?  It has favorable ability adjustments, 5th-level spellcasting, and a couple of spell-like abilities.


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## Krishnath (Jan 13, 2004)

LA +3 sounds good.


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## BOZ (Jan 14, 2004)

updating.


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## BOZ (Jan 14, 2004)

Since you probably know next to nothing about most of these creatures, I took a look at some of them and I’m tossing you some information.  What would you like to work on next?  

Jagre: A Huge size, brutish ogre-humanoid that transforms into a displacer beast-like creature.
Kamatlan: Chaotic evil, poisonous version of the kamadan.
Plumazotl: I’m not sure if this has a place in 3E as it currently is… unless pluma magic is somewhere and I just haven’t seen it yet.

Ahuizotl: the Maztican version is a Huge bipedal lizard that can spit out animated water creatures.
Tabaxi, Jaguar Lord: chaotic evil relatives of tabaxi, that have spell-like abilities and cast cleric spells.

Bacar: Large ant-men with hive minds, kind of like formians.
H'Calos: Colossal centipede creatures that swallow whole, have frightful presence, and can drag foes underground.

Pasocada Ghost: Ethereal spirits that fire ghostly arrows which cause disease.



Nomadic Centaur: Hardier plains centaur that charges and fights with bows.
Horses (Nars, Raurin, Semphari, Steppe, Sosser): various horses.  
Manggus (Greater spirit): Evil spirits that fight with mauls, can change shape and has spell-like abilities.
Monkey (Greater spirit): Unique being (chaotic good), once member of the Celestial Bureaucracy, can attack with sword 5 times per round, can cast almost any spell, effectively has 20 HD but can’t be permanently killed.
Shatjan: Humanoid with moose head, protector of icy forests, has cold breath weapon and can control temperature.
Shimnus (Greater spirit): Evil crone that breathes fire, can enlarge to storm giant size, is extraplanar.

Gaumahavi, Greater Purple Dragon: Unique Neutral dragon (16 HD) that can cause a dust storm, polymorph, and cast wizard and cleric spells.  (since she’s unique, I don’t mind converting her because she has no age progression!) 
Sandiraksiva, The Black Courser: A unique horse (8 HD) that can fly, and breathe a fireball.

Ambuchar Devayam/Tanchin: Unique undead being (12 HD) that causes fear, drains energy, causes permanent Con drain by gaze,
Dowagu: Magically created beings that have four arms, cause fear, have chilling touch on their whole body, have an aura of silence, and cause darkness at will.


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## Shade (Jan 14, 2004)

I'd like (in order of interest): 

Gaumahavi, Greater Purple Dragon
H'Calos
Shimnus (Greater spirit):


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## Krishnath (Jan 14, 2004)

Jagre!

Followed by H'Calos.


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## Tzeentch (Jan 15, 2004)

Krishnath said:
			
		

> Jagre!
> 
> Followed by H'Calos.



Eric Boyd and Thomas Costa have a 3.0 Jagre and Jaguar Lord in their netbook that looks pretty good as a starting point.


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## BOZ (Jan 15, 2004)

cool, can't forget about that.  

we'll start with the h'calos (since it's such a popular choice, woo!) and then the jagre.


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## Tzeentch (Jan 16, 2004)

Got to love giant centipedes.


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## BOZ (Jan 16, 2004)

a-yup.  

H’Calos is actually a unique creature – my bad!    he’s a real Giant Movie Monster!


H’Calos

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Tropical (Ixtzul)
FREQUENCY: Very rare (Unique)
ORGANIZATION: Singular
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Low (4)

TREASURE: Hx3
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: - 3
MOVEMENT: 9 (6 burrow)
HIT DICE: 20
THAC0: 1
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1 o r 4
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 2-20 or 1-6/1-6/1-6/1-6
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Swallow, fear
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Immune to gas, fire
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 20%
SIZE: G (100’ long)
MORALE: Fanatic (18)
XP VALUE: 20,000

H’Calos is a (hopefully) unique creature found in Maztica. It appears as a monstrous centipede with a black, chitinous shell. Its forward end is crowned by two glowing green eyes and a four-hinged jaw capable of swallowing any creature of size L or smaller. The forward two sets of legs have grown in the shape of a preying mantis’s forelimbs, perfect for rending larger prey. The forward limbs also allow H’Calos to burrow through earth at normal speed, and through rock at one/third that speed.

COMBAT: H’Calos’s favored method of attack is from below. It can sense vibrations through the earth and selects the loudest collection of individuals or people to attack from beneath. H’Calos emerges from the earth at high speed, taking one target with it, rising some forty feet above the ground. The target is subject to a swallow attack (see below - successful saving throw vs. breath weapon means he hasn’t been swallowed, merely carried aloft), but even if he lives, he falls from that height unless he hangs on to his attacker.
H’Calos’s rising from the ground causes fear (as for dragons) in all who witness it for the first time. Intelligent creatures of less than 1 HD flee in panic, with no saving throw. All others must make a saving throw against fear or fight at -2 to hit and damage for the next 10 rounds. The bacars are unaffected as long as the queen is alive, but if dead, the bacars are affected as normal monsters.
The round after rising from the earth, H’Calos plunges back down, trying to take another target with it in a swallow attack. If the original target is still alive, H’Calos tries to rend it with its forelegs instead, but crashes to the ground. H’Calos is unaffected by this maneuver. During its dive it is vulnerable to attack (its entire body must follow it down the hole). A target hit by two of the four claws is secured, and is dragged underground as well.
H’Calos can swallow its prey on a +4 or better attack roll (e.g., if the creature needs a 13 to hit and the roll is a 17 or better). Swallowed prey then takes 2-16 points of (stomach acid) damage each round, automatically, until dead. The prey may use small hand-held weapons in the creature’s gullet, though slashing and blunt weapons inflict only 1 point per attack. H’Calos’ insides are AC 10. Spellcasters attempting to use spells, wands, or magical items must first make a Dexterity check.
H’Calos’s tunnels through normal soil last about 3-18 rounds before caving in. Tunnels carved through stone are permanent, but softer soils (such as swamp) fill in almost immediately.
H’Calos is immune to fire and gas-based attacks, including cloudkill.

HABITAT/SOCIETY: H’Calos lives to eat, period, and has spent the past 800 years in hibernation. He awakens with an all-consuming hunger, and eats until he is killed. He eats anything, but prefers animals, if only because they are easier to track through vibrations in the ground.
The breeding or creation of creatures such as H’Calos is unknown, although the idea of more than one of these creatures chills the blood.

ECOLOGY: H’Calos the Star Worm fell to earth about a thousand years ago, encased in a meteorite. Whether this spaceborn rock was his lair or his prison is unknown. His landing near the Vale of Ixtzul reverberated around the True World, and his coming may have closed off the last of the dwarven tunnels back to Faerun.
H’Calos’ landing in the True World has had much to do with his long slumber. Without huge underground civilizations (as in Faerun), no delving society found him by accident. Also, without organized nations, Ixtzul was quickly forgotten. Those who did adventure into the valley of Ixtzul were dealt with by the bacars.
Should H’Calos be freed, he will be at full power, but hungry, such that entire towns and cities will vanish overnight under his assault.



some preliminary stats for H’Calos:

*H’Calos*
Colossal (Aberration?  Outsider?  Vermin?)
Hit Dice: 20d8 (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 25 ft (5 squares), burrow 20 ft
Armor Class: 23+ (-8 size, +X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: Bite +X melee (2d10+X)
Full Attack: Bite +X melee (2d10+X) or 4 claws +X melee (1d6+X)
Space/Reach: X ft/X ft
Special Attacks: swallow whole, frightful presence, improved grab, rend
Special Qualities: spell resistance X, tremorsense, immunity to fire and gas
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int 4, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: X
Feats: 7

Environment: Any warm land and underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: Triple standard
Alignment: Always chaotic neutral
Advancement: ---
Level Adjustment: ---

H’Calos is 100 feet long

COMBAT

Originally found in module FMA2 – Endless Armies (1991, Jeff Grubb).


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## Shade (Jan 16, 2004)

Very cool!    

H'Calos seems very similar to the megapede in MM2.  Thus, we can probably use the megapede's ability scores for starters (except for Int).

Str 43, Dex 7, Con 27, Int --, Wis 12, Cha 4

The megapede is a Colossal Vermin.  However, since H'Calos is not mindless, I'd suggest making him a Colossal Magical Beast.  Although he is originally from beyond, he doesn't seem like a true outsider.   We could add the Extraplanar subtype, though.

He should have the following special abilities:
-Improved Grab
-Swallow Whole
-Tremorsense
-Frightful Presence
-Rend
-Crush
-Immunity to fire and poison


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## BOZ (Jan 16, 2004)

got some of those on there already.    and spell resistance.


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## Shade (Jan 16, 2004)

Yeah, I was just recapping.    

I'm glad he's got spell resistance, too.

Here's a stab at a few of the abilities:

Crush (Ex): H’Calos can land on opponents three or more size categories smaller than itself as a full-round action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under H’Calos's body. Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC X) or be pinned, automatically taking X points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if H’Calos chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack (grapple bonus +40). While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

[I made it a full-round action rather than standard, since crush is usually for flying creatures, and H'Calos actually has to rear up.]

Frightful Presence (Ex): Whenever H’Calos attacks or charges, each creature in a X-foot radius that has fewer HD than it does must make a DC X Will save. Failure indicates that the creature is panicked for 4d6 rounds (if it has 4 or fewer HD) or shaken for 4d6 rounds (if it has 5 or more HD).

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, H’Calos must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If H’Calos wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake with its front claws and can attempt to swallow the foe the following round.

Swallow Whole (Ex): H’Calos can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes X points of crushing damage plus 2d8 points of acid damage per round from H’Calos's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. H’Calos's interior can hold X Gargantuan, X Huge, X Large, X Medium, X Small, X Tiny, or X Diminutive or smaller opponents.


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## Filby (Jan 17, 2004)

I don't think that the Extraplanar subtype is necessary, since H'Calos is from outer space, which is, according to MotP (and Spelljammer, going back a little), still part of the Material Plane.


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## Krishnath (Jan 17, 2004)

Actually, we don't know if H'calos is originally from outer space or from another plane of existance since the first mention of the creature, was when it crashed into maztica, but I agree, extraplanar is pointless (since we don't know)

Anyways,

SR Equal to CR +12?

Should it hav DR? (I think yes, as it is a very though critter.)


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## Shade (Jan 20, 2004)

Krishnath said:
			
		

> Actually, we don't know if H'calos is originally from outer space or from another plane of existance since the first mention of the creature, was when it crashed into maztica, but I agree, extraplanar is pointless (since we don't know)




Fair enough.



			
				Krishnath said:
			
		

> Anyways,
> 
> SR Equal to CR +12?




Yes!    



			
				Krishnath said:
			
		

> Should it hav DR? (I think yes, as it is a very though critter.)




I'd vote for it.  Seeing as this guy is basically the "tarrasque on another continent", he should be similar, although he has less than half the HD of the Big T.   Since the tarrasque has DR 15/epic, perhaps 5/epic for H'Calos?


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## Krishnath (Jan 20, 2004)

Sounds like a plan to me.


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## Shade (Jan 23, 2004)

Gathering what we've got so far...

*H’Calos*
Colossal Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 20d10+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 25 ft (5 squares), burrow 20 ft
Armor Class: 23+ (-8 size, +X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +20/+36+Str
Attack: Bite +X melee (2d10+X)
Full Attack: Bite +X melee (2d10+X) or 4 claws +X melee (1d6+X)
Space/Reach: 30 ft/20 ft?
Special Attacks: Crush, frightful presence, improved grab, rend, swallow whole 
Special Qualities: Damage reduction (5/epic?), darkvision 60 ft., immunity to fire and gas, low-light vision, spell resistance (CR +12?), tremorsense X ft.
Saves: Fort +12 Ref +12 Will +6
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int 4, Wis X, Cha X (Suggested: Str 43, Dex 7, Con 27, Int 4, Wis 12, Cha 4)
Skills: 23  Hide -16 (size)
Feats: 7  (Multiattack?)

Environment: Any warm land and underground
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: Triple standard
Alignment: Always chaotic neutral
Advancement: ---
Level Adjustment: ---

_Description._

H’Calos is 100 feet long and weighs X pounds.

H’Calos speaks X.

COMBAT

Crush (Ex): H’Calos can land on opponents three or more size categories smaller than itself as a full-round action, using its whole body to crush them. A crush attack affects as many creatures as can fit under H’Calos's body. Each creature in the affected area must succeed at a Reflex save (DC X) or be pinned, automatically taking X points of bludgeoning damage. Thereafter, if H’Calos chooses to maintain the pin, treat it as a normal grapple attack (grapple bonus +40). While pinned, the opponent takes crush damage each round.

[I made it a full-round action rather than standard, since crush is usually for flying creatures, and H'Calos actually has to rear up.]

Frightful Presence (Ex): Whenever H’Calos attacks or charges, each creature in a X-foot radius that has fewer HD than it does must make a DC X Will save. Failure indicates that the creature is panicked for 4d6 rounds (if it has 4 or fewer HD) or shaken for 4d6 rounds (if it has 5 or more HD).

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, H’Calos must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If H’Calos wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake with its front claws and can attempt to swallow the foe the following round.

Rend (Ex): If H’Calos hits with two or more claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional X points of damage.

Swallow Whole (Ex): H’Calos can try to swallow a grabbed opponent of a smaller size than itself by making a successful grapple check. Once inside, the opponent takes X points of crushing damage plus 2d8 points of acid damage per round from H’Calos's gizzard. A swallowed creature can cut its way out by using a light slashing or piercing weapon to deal 25 points of damage to the gizzard (AC 10 + 1/2 its natural armor bonus, with no modifiers for size or Dexterity). Once the creature exits, muscular action closes the hole; another swallowed opponent must cut its own way out. H’Calos's interior can hold X Gargantuan, X Huge, X Large, X Medium, X Small, X Tiny, or X Diminutive or smaller opponents.

Originally found in module FMA2 – Endless Armies (1991, Jeff Grubb).


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## Knightfall (Jan 24, 2004)

> Jagre; Tabaxi, Jaguar Lord; Nomadic Centaur; Shatjan




I vote for the above creatures...


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## BOZ (Jan 26, 2004)

the jagre sounds like a good next project.


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## Krishnath (Jan 26, 2004)

For the H'calos, I suggest 120' tremorsense.


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## Shade (Jan 26, 2004)

I agree with the 120 ft. tremorsense.


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## BOZ (Jan 28, 2004)

going to try to take a look at h'calos tomorrow.  magical beast is best?

i know some of his combat text is hard to figure exactly what it would be... i guess a crush attack makes enough sense as anything.


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## Shade (Jan 28, 2004)

Magical beast seems appropriate.    Vermin are mindless, so they're out.   H'Calos seems similar to a remorhaz, which is a magical beast.


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## Krishnath (Jan 28, 2004)

I agree. Magical Beast is the most apropiate choice.


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## BOZ (Jan 29, 2004)

i rewrote the combat text as follows.  as for the crush attack, it seems that he can do that in the same round as a swallow or rend attack - maybe it's a move-equivalent action?

COMBAT
H’Calos likes to attack from below the ground, by rising up and attacking unsuspecting surface creatures.  It selects its prey by the noise they make, which vibrates through the earth.  It will typically emerge from below at high velocity, taking a single target with it and trying to swallow it.  Failing that, H’Calos will drop its prey (which can try to hold on to the falling beast), and plunge back down the next round.

As it reaches ground level, H’Calos will attempt another swallow attack on the ground.  If the original target is still alive and holding on to H’Calos, it will attempt to rend the creature while crashing to the ground.  Anything underneath H’Calos at that time is subject to a crush attack.  H’Calos takes no damage from this maneuver, though it is quite vulnerable to attacks the whole time.  If H’Calos grapples or rends an opponent while on the ground, it will usually drag the creature underground.


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## BOZ (Jan 29, 2004)

posted in homebrews for the heck of it.


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## Shade (Jan 29, 2004)

For the crush attack, I made it a full-round action rather than standard, since crush is usually for flying creatures, and H'Calos actually has to rear up.  But I don't see any reason it couldn't be a standard action for H'Calos as well.

Crush:  DC 28. The save DC is Constitution-based.  Deals 4d8+24 damage.

Frightful Presence:  DC 21. The save DC is Charisma-based.  Radius - 200 ft. (as mountain landwyrm) or 60 ft. (as tarrasque) or something else?

Rend:  Deals additional 2d6+24 points of damage.

Swallow Whole:   Looking at similar Gargantuan and Colossal creatures...

-The tarrasque’s gullet can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, 128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures. (Colossal)

-A Gargantuan fiendwurm's gizzard can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium-size, or 128 Small or smaller opponents.

-A cloud ray's throat can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium-size, or 128 Small or smaller creatures.  (Colossal)

-An ulgurstasta's maw can hold 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium-size, or 128 Small or smaller opponents. (Gargantuan)

...I'd say we can safely go with 2 Huge, 8 Large, 32 Medium, and either "128 Small, or 512 Tiny or smaller creatures" or "128 Small or smaller opponents".


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## BOZ (Jan 30, 2004)

i don't want to waste a whole lot of time trying to figure this guy out, so i'll just go with your figures.

for frightful presence radius, i'll go with 100, simply because h'calos is a lot bigger than the tarrasque, therefore a lot more opponents would be able to see him as he rises straight up out of the ground.  

for the swallow bit, i figured to make it like the tarrasque, since that is the only 3.5 creature represented.  

now, what's left... well, as always, skills & feats...


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## Krishnath (Jan 30, 2004)

Skills: Hide, Listen, Move Silently, & Spot?

Also, a  small note, I don't think that it should be able to speak at all.


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## Shade (Jan 30, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> for frightful presence radius, i'll go with 100, simply because h'calos is a lot bigger than the tarrasque, therefore a lot more opponents would be able to see him as he rises straight up out of the ground.




That works for me.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> for the swallow bit, i figured to make it like the tarrasque, since that is the only 3.5 creature represented.




Good point.



			
				Krishnath said:
			
		

> Skills: Hide, Listen, Move Silently, & Spot?
> 
> Also, a  small note, I don't think that it should be able to speak at all.




I agree with everything Krishnath just said, except for possibly Hide.      Since it gets a -16 size penalty and a -2 Dex penalty to Hide, we'll need to put most of the ranks in Hide for it to break even.

For feats, how about Awesome Blow, Improved Critical (bite), Improved Critical (claw), Improved Initiative, Improved Overrun, Multiattack, and Power Attack?


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## Krishnath (Jan 31, 2004)

That's pretty easy to fix actually, just give it a +12 racial bonus on hide checks


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## BOZ (Feb 1, 2004)

naw, i agree... hide does seem kind of silly for colossal creatures.  what is it going to hide behind - a mountain?


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## Krishnath (Feb 1, 2004)

Good point, reminds me of something I read on the net about a party of adventurers that where suprised by a reptilian gargantua...

DM: You are suprised by a reptilian gargantua.
Player 1: Surprised? How, the thing is 100' tall!
Player 2: I dunno, I guess it must have been hiding or sumthin'.
Player 1: Hiding? Behind what! A mountain?


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## BOZ (Feb 1, 2004)

heh...


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## BOZ (Feb 1, 2004)

ok, updating in homebrews...

i have to vote "no" on multiattack, since it doesn't use both attack forms in the same round.  i switched it up for Improved Bull Rush, since that is a prerequesite for Awesome Blow (got to love that name)


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## Shade (Feb 2, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> i have to vote "no" on multiattack, since it doesn't use both attack forms in the same round.  i switched it up for Improved Bull Rush, since that is a prerequesite for Awesome Blow (got to love that name)




Interesting...I was always under the assumption that a creature would take a -5 penalty on any secondary attacks, even if not used in the same round.  

So, are you saying that both the bite and claws would be primary attacks, since they are not used in the same round, or that you just don't like Multiattack in this instance because the attacks occur in different rounds?

I could be misinterpreting this, but this text from the Monster Types and Abilities file seems to support Multiattack being needed even in this case:

"The primary weapon is given in the creature’s Attack entry, and the primary weapon or weapons is given first in the creature’s Full Attack entry. A creature’s primary natural weapon is its most effective natural attack, usually by virtue of the creature’s physiology, training, or innate talent with the weapon. An attack with a primary natural weapon uses the creature’s full attack bonus. Attacks with secondary natural weapons are less effective and are made with a –5 penalty on the attack roll, no matter how many there are. (Creatures with the Multiattack feat take only a –2 penalty on secondary attacks.) *This penalty applies even when the creature makes a single attack with the secondary weapon as part of the attack action or as an attack of opportunity*."

Regardless of the outcome, it definitely needs Improved Bull Rush to get Awesome Blow.


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## BOZ (Feb 2, 2004)

hmm, guess i didn't understand the primary weapon rules that well.


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## Shade (Feb 2, 2004)

They are a confusing.   So, does that mean H'Calos gets to keep Multiattack?    

If so, should we replace Improved Overrun with Improved Bull Rush?


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## BOZ (Feb 4, 2004)

hmm, yeah... i'm thinking that's aboot right.

so what's left?  CR?  anyone want to further a guess as to how much this thing should weigh?


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 4, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> so what's left? CR? anyone want to further a guess as to how much this thing should weigh?



Ok, closest large bug I can find online, that actually includes a weight, is the giant millipede - 1 ft long, but only .44 lbs. and they're more heavily armored than a millipede. But 44 lbs seems way too light for a 100 ft long animal, so lets go exponentially, and make it either 4400lbs or 440 lbs... mainly a question of how thich you want the shell to be, I guess.


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## Shade (Feb 4, 2004)

Some comparable monsters:

Purple Worm (Gargantuan, 5 feet in diameter and 80 feet long, 40,000 pounds)
Nightcrawler (Gargantuan, 7 feet in diameter and 100 feet long, 55,000 pounds)
Lucent Worm (Gargantuan, 5 feet in diameter and almost 100 feet long, 55,000 to 60,000 pounds) 
Tarrasque (Colossal, 70 feet long and 50 feet tall, 130 tons)

The colossal monstrous centipede or the megapede would have been the closest comparisons, but they have no listed weight.    

Based on the above, I'd recommend 55,000 pounds.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 4, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> Some comparable monsters:
> 
> Purple Worm (Gargantuan, 5 feet in diameter and 80 feet long, 40,000 pounds)
> Nightcrawler (Gargantuan, 7 feet in diameter and 100 feet long, 55,000 pounds)
> ...



Worms are more... solid, though... chitinous bugs tend to be light compared to dimensions.... maybe 20,000 pounds?


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## Shade (Feb 4, 2004)

While I know we don't follow it faithfully, the monster size chart shows the following weight ranges:

Huge 2-16 tons 
Gargantuan 16-125 tons
Colossal 125 tons or more 

So I'd say it needs to weigh at least 32,000 pounds (the minimum for Gargantuan, which is one size category smaller).


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## BOZ (Feb 5, 2004)

why would we want it to weigh so little?


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 5, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> why would we want it to weigh so little?



Meh, just ignore me, it's realism trying to affect me


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## Krishnath (Feb 5, 2004)

Well, it could have metallic components in it's structure, which would increase the beasts weight compared to other millipedes of compareable size. (Does this make sense to anyone but me?)


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## Shade (Feb 5, 2004)

It doesn't make sense to me, but it doesn't fail to make sense, either.  I'm no entymologist...I just help convert monsters.


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## BOZ (Feb 5, 2004)

realism?  make sense?  bah!  y'all goin make me lose my mind up in here!

i think i'll go with shade's original 55,000.    still pretty damn light though, but maybe it should weigh only 27.5 tons?


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## BOZ (Feb 5, 2004)

OK, time to go on a rampage!    i'm looking to finish up the four most complete monsters, so that we have a batch of 10 to post.  here we go!

Space/reach: 30 ft/20 ft – does that still accommodate a 100-foot long creature?

Damage reduction: 5/epic?

CR: 20?

Therefore, SR: 32? (12+CR)

Its gizzard for Swallow Whole: AC 22?


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## Shade (Feb 5, 2004)

Rampage like the starving tarrasque!    

Go at least 10/epic.   The tarrasque has 15/epic.   The solar and hellfire wyrm both have at least 15/epic.   

The nightcrawler is 100 ft. long and only has 15 ft. reach, but is also Gargantuan, not Colossal, so I think 20 ft. reach is appropriate for H'Calos.

I agree with everything else you suggested.


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## BOZ (Feb 5, 2004)

The talk about DR before was 5, because it was lesser than the Tarrasque.  You think 10 is more appropriate?

And CR 20 is cool?

How about crushing damage from the swallow whole attack?


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## Shade (Feb 5, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> The talk about DR before was 5, because it was lesser than the Tarrasque.  You think 10 is more appropriate?




Oh yeah.  It's been awhile since we had that talk.    

10/epic sounds good.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> And CR 20 is cool?




Yep.  



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> How about crushing damage from the swallow whole attack?




Similar critters:
Tarrasque:  2d8+8 
Nightcrawler, Purple Worm:  2d8+12 

I'm not really sure which to go with.  It is more similar in physiology to the worms, I suppose.


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## BOZ (Feb 6, 2004)

for tarrasque, +8 is half its strength bonus...  so maybe 2d8+8 for h'calos also?


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2004)

Hmmm...for the purple worm it is equal to its Str, and for the nightcrawler it doesn't have any connection to its Str.

Since there doesn't appear to be a set pattern, I'd say go with whatever you'd like.


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## BOZ (Feb 6, 2004)

will do.  

ok, updating in homebrews - are we done with this guy yet?


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2004)

Init should be +2 (+4 Improved Init, -2 Dex)

Accounting for Improved Critical feats:

Attack: Bite +36 melee (2d10+16/19-20)
Full Attack: Bite +36 melee (2d10+16/19-20) or 4 claws +34 melee (1d6+16/19-20)

Otherwise, I think it is done.   I gotta say, H'Calos is one of my favorites we've done.  Let my players beware.


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## BOZ (Feb 6, 2004)

whoops on the feats!  sometimes i ferget...

glad to see he'll get some use.


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2004)

Wouldn't it make for a good ol' time if H'Calos and the tarrasque were to awaken at the same moment?


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## BOZ (Feb 6, 2004)

have i told you lately that you're an evil man?  

should we have something like this?  nearly forgot...

For Damage Reduction:
A (X)’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as (X)-aligned and (X)-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2004)

You have told me, but I never tire of hearing it.     

Good catch on the overcoming DR line.   It looks like the norm for DR x/epic is:

H'Calos's natural weapons are treated as epic weapons for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2004)

BTW, if you really wanna see evil, check this out...  

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1356736#post1356736


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## BOZ (Feb 7, 2004)

ok, NEXT!  

as requested...

Jagre

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any land
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Tribe
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Carnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Low-very (5-12)
TREASURE: D
ALIGNMENT: Any evil
NO. APPEARING: 14

ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 12
THACO: 9
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-6 + 7 or by weapon (2-12 + 7) or 2-6/2-8
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: H (16' tall)
MORALE: Fanatic (17-18)
XP VALUE: 4000

These monstrosities were spawned by Zaltec on the Night of Wailing, though they did not make their appearance until later. While normal warriors became orcs, and jaguar knights were transformed into ogres, certain high level jaguar knights became especially large ogres, which were later changed into jagres.

A jagre is a huge, brutish humanoid with cruel features. All jagres bear the mark of the Viperhand, a red brand in the center of their chests. They wear armor made from displacer beasts, which allows them to transform themselves into displacer beasts. The latter form has the tentacles and six legs common to displacer beasts, but its coat is usually a reddish brown with dark spots, like a jaguar's.

COMBAT: A jagre is as likely to enter combat unarmed as with a weapon. Those that prefer weapons usually (75%) carry huge _macas_, while others wield clubs. A jagre may transform itself into displacer beast form at will, gaining its attacks and special abilities. In its cat-like shape, a jagre attacks with two tentacles, inflicting 2d4 points of damage on its victims. If pressed, it may attack with two claws and a bite for damage of 1-3/1-3/1-8, but is more likely to attempt to escape or switch back to humanoid form.

In beast form, a jagre has the same armor class, hit dice, hit points, and saving throws as its humanoid form. It gains the beast's displacement ability, however, making it appear to be three feet from its actual location. Anyone attacking the jagre's beast form receives a -2 on his attack roll. In addition, the creature makes saving throws at +2 while in this form.

HABITAT/SOCIETY: Jagres are leaders of the beasts of the Viperhand which now inhabit the Valley of Nexal. They are huge variations of Viperhand ogres, having been rewarded with special powers for their service to Zaltec. The special displacer beasts armor they wear, imbued with hishna magic, allows them to change shape.

At present, there are only male jagres. To increase their numbers, they sometimes invite especially strong and smart ogres to join their ranks. They also mate with some of the few female ogres in the Valley of Nexal, producing ogres as offspring. When one of these offspring reaches maturity, or when an ogre is invited into the ranks of the jagre, that individual must obtain the skin of a displacer beast. In a special, ceremony, the ogre and the skins are then imbued with the power of hishna, creating a jagre. If the jagre loses its armor, it is stripped of the power to change forms, though it retains all other jagre abilities.

Some jagres take things a step further, going through a special unholy ceremony which bonds the armor to their skin so that it can not be removed. Maztican displacer beasts often have colorations different from their eastern cousins, and jagres often choose a pelt of a color that appeals to them.

Jagres are recognized as authorities by all inhabitants of the Valley of Nexal. They answer only to Hoxitl and his personal servants, the Beast Leaders.

Jagres often lead companies of other Viperhand beasts. Some 50% will be accompanied by 10 ogres, while 25% lead 20 orcs, 15% lead a mixed group of orcs and ogres, 5% lead 2-5 trolls, and 5% lead a company of ogres, orcs, and trolls. Jagres are sometimes encountered when they are off duty, and will not be accompanied by any other Viperhand beasts.

ECOLOGY: Jagres are some of the most powerful creatures in Maztica, and they have no natural enemies. Because they are relatively new to the world, their impact on the local ecology has not yet been fully determined. It is known that they eat any form of meat, though they seem to prefer that of humans, demihumans, and humanoids.

Jagre lairs often hold treasure recovered from the ruins of Nexal. When determining treasure for a jagre, substitute Maztican valuables for coinage. Magical items will also be Maztican, with most being talismans of hishna.

The displacer beast armor, if taken from a jagre, will not allow other creatures to make the transformation.




some preliminary stats for the jagre:

*Jagre*
Huge Giant (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 12d8+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (+X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: ?
Full Attack: ?
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: X
Special Qualities: change shape (jaguar form), displacement
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X
Abilities: Str (24), Dex X, Con X, Int 9, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: 15?
Feats: 5

Environment: Any land
Organization: 1-4 or tribe (plus other servant creatures – see text)
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always evil (any)
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +X

A jagre stands 16 feet tall, and weighs X pounds.

Jagres speak Giant

COMBAT



Originally found in the Maztica Campaign Set boxed set (1991, Douglas Niles).


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 7, 2004)

Ok, preliminary look, they have less HD and strength than a hill giant, but are one size larger. Size huge puts them on par with cloud giants. Largest of the large giant (Frost) is 15ft, although Fire Giant's are stronger.  We want Jagre's at 16ft, Clouds are 18ft. Lets keep them huge.

Huge Giant (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 16d8+80 (152 hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 40 ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+X Dex, +10 natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: ?
Full Attack: ?
Space/Reach: 15 ft/15 ft
Special Attacks: X
Special Qualities: change shape (jaguar form), displacement
Saves: Fort +15 Ref +5 Will +7
Abilities: Str 33, Dex 11, Con 21, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 15
Skills: 15?
Feats: 5


How are we doing the displacer beast stats? Just advancing one to huge size?


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## BOZ (Feb 8, 2004)

that is a good question.


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 8, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> that is a good question.



Quick and dirty

Hit Dice: 16d8+80 (152 hp) 
Initiative: +1 
Speed: 40 ft. (8 squares) 
Armor Class: 16 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +8 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 16 
Base Attack/Grapple: +18/+34 
Attack: Tentacle +25 melee (1d8+8) 
Full Attack: 2 Tentacles +25 melee (1d8+8), bite +19 melee (2d6+4) 
Space/Reach: 15 ft./10 ft. (20 ft. with tentacles) 
Special Attacks: --
Special Qualities: Change shape, Darkvision 60 ft, displacement 
Saves: Fort +15, Ref +11, Will +7 
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 9, Wis 14, Cha 15 
Skills: 15?
Feats: 5


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## Shade (Feb 9, 2004)

For the remaining stats, I'd just advance an ogre to huge:

Large Ogre:  Str 21+8, Dex 8-2, Con 15+4, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7

+8 Str, -2 Dex, +4 Con

Huge Ogre:  Str 29, Dex 6, Con 19, Int 6, Wis 10, Cha 7

Since the jagre is smarter, we might raise its Wisdom a tad.

Jagre:  Str 29, Dex 6, Con 19, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 7


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## Wippit Guud (Feb 9, 2004)

"Jagres are recognized as authorities by all inhabitants of the Valley of Nexal. They answer only to Hoxitl and his personal servants, the Beast Leaders."


They need high charisma, maybe high wisdom.


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## BOZ (Feb 10, 2004)

i concur that they need a higher cha, as leader types.  also, i'd keep their Dex at 8 instead of lowering it.


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## Shade (Feb 11, 2004)

Borrowing from the displacer beast...

Displacement (Su): A light-bending glamer continually surrounds a jagre, making it difficult to surmise the creature's true location. Any melee or ranged attack directed at it has a 50% miss chance unless the attacker can locate the jagre by some means other than sight. A true seeing effect allows the user to see the beast's position, but see invisibility has no effect.

Skills: A jagre has a +8 racial bonus on Hide checks, thanks to its displacement ability.

The displacer beast also has this ability:

Resistance to Ranged Attacks (Su): A displacer beast has a +2 resistance bonus on saves against any ranged magical attack that specifically targets it (except for ranged touch attacks).

Should the jagre have it as well?  (Note that the displacer serpent in the Miniatures handbook does not have this ability, although it has the same displacement ability as the displacer beast).


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## BOZ (Feb 11, 2004)

i would give it all abilities that a displacer beast has, but only while in its alternate form.


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## BOZ (Feb 11, 2004)

d'oh!  just realized there is a jagre conversion here: http://www.ericlboyd.com/dnd/monsters.html


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## Shade (Feb 11, 2004)

That's a darn good conversion.


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## BOZ (Feb 18, 2004)

Jagre thoughts

I’d say the jagre should have at least 8 Cha.

It should definitely have all the special abilities and attacks of a displacer beast when it changes form.  It would also gain the displacer’s speed, reach, and any skill bonuses.

For physical ability scores, as posted by wippit, they could be: Str 26, Dex 13, Con 20

Staying the same: HD, natural armor, type and subtype, base attack and saves, skill ranks, feats.


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## Shade (Feb 19, 2004)

Cha 8 sounds fine.   For the physical abilities, I'd still recommend Str 29 so it at least as good as a Huge ogre.  The Dex and Con are fine.

I agree with everything else in the last post.


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## BOZ (Feb 19, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> It should definitely have all the special abilities and attacks of a displacer beast when it changes form.  It would also gain the displacer’s speed, reach, and any skill bonuses.
> 
> For physical ability scores, as posted by wippit, they could be: Str 26, Dex 13, Con 20
> 
> Staying the same: HD, natural armor, type and subtype, base attack and saves, skill ranks, feats.




sorry, all of this was intended to refer to the beast form only.


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## Shade (Feb 19, 2004)

D'oh!   Well, in that case, disregard my comments and just note my agreement.


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## BOZ (Feb 19, 2004)

in switching forms, it would trade some Str for some Dex.


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## Shade (Feb 19, 2004)

So what stats are we going with in ogre form?   Perhaps a homebrews entry to see where we're at?


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## BOZ (Feb 19, 2004)

did i not post those?  Abilities: Str 29, Dex 8, Con 19, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 8

i'll whip something more up soon, hopefully today.


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## Shade (Feb 19, 2004)

Sounds good.


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## BOZ (Feb 19, 2004)

ok, posting in homebrews (if these lagging boards will let me).  i didn't yet put together a stat block for the jaguar form, but i will soon.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

A heavy mace does 1d8 and is sized for a Medium creature to use one-handed.   If the Huge jagre is going to use it one-handed, it should do 3d6.

15/15 sounds right for space/reach.

Skills: I'd recommend Intimidate 6, Listen 3, Spot 3, Survival 3.  It would take too many ranks of Hide to even get a positive modifier, thanks to its -8 size penalty and Dex penalty.  Its high Str score will give it a good Climb and Jump modifier.

Feats: I like what you have listed (Blind-Fight, Multiattack, Persuasive, Power Attack, Weapon Focus)

CR:  An ogre is CR 3.  Raising it 8 HD would make it CR 5.  A displacer beast is CR 4.  Raising it to 12 HD would also make it CR 5.   Thus, I'd make the jagre CR 5.

LA:
+1 for natural armor
+1 for unbalanced ability scores
+2 for 15 foot reach
+1 for shapechange
----------------------
+5 LA


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## BOZ (Feb 20, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> A heavy mace does 1d8 and is sized for a Medium creature to use one-handed.   If the Huge jagre is going to use it one-handed, it should do 3d6.




would increasing the size of the weapon to Large be a good idea?  and if so what damage would that do?



> Skills: I'd recommend Intimidate 6, Listen 3, Spot 3, Survival 3.  It would take too many ranks of Hide to even get a positive modifier, thanks to its -8 size penalty and Dex penalty.  Its high Str score will give it a good Climb and Jump modifier.




keep in mind, for skills (especially Hide) it will have different bonuses in each form.



> CR:  An ogre is CR 3.  Raising it 8 HD would make it CR 5.  A displacer beast is CR 4.  Raising it to 12 HD would also make it CR 5.   Thus, I'd make the jagre CR 5.




only 5?  This guy is pretty tough.  Ogre mage is CR 8 and nowhere near as tough.



> LA:
> +1 for natural armor
> +1 for unbalanced ability scores
> +2 for 15 foot reach
> ...




if this is a fairly set LA value, I guess we can stick with that.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> would increasing the size of the weapon to Large be a good idea?  and if so what damage would that do?




No.  The way they do things in 3.5 is just call it a "heavy mace", whether it is wielded by a halfling or mountain giant.  The size is just assumed.  So the 2d6 version I mentioned would be a Large heavy mace in 3E terms.  Now, I suppose we could make it the equivalent of a huge heavy mace, and then it could only wield it two-handed.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> keep in mind, for skills (especially Hide) it will have different bonuses in each form.




True, but it will stil have the -8 size penalty as a Huge displacer beast.  However, its +8 racial bonus in displacer beast form would balance this out, so I guess it would just have a low positive modifier to Hide if we gave it some ranks.  I'm fine with that.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> only 5?  This guy is pretty tough.  Ogre mage is CR 8 and nowhere near as tough.




Good point.  Upon further review, 8 seems appropriate.   The ogre mage may not be as tough, but can fly, regenerate, and has spell-like abilities.  A hill giant is CR 7, so when you factor in the displacement ability of the jagre, CR 8 sounds about right, eh?


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## BOZ (Feb 20, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> No.  The way they do things in 3.5 is just call it a "heavy mace", whether it is wielded by a halfling or mountain giant.  The size is just assumed.  So the 2d6 version I mentioned would be a Large heavy mace in 3E terms.  Now, I suppose we could make it the equivalent of a huge heavy mace, and then it could only wield it two-handed.




hang on a moment.  a 3.5 MM titan carries around a Gargantuan warhammer - i know those guys are not gonig to use a warhammer that would be as big as their pinky toe.  so what i'm asking is that should a jagre, who is 16 feet tall, have a larger-than-normal sized weapon?

i don't really know what sort of a "handed-ness" the jagre would need for its weapon, but it doesn't carry a shield or use any other melee attacks, so would it really matter?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> hang on a moment.  a 3.5 MM titan carries around a Gargantuan warhammer - i know those guys are not gonig to use a warhammer that would be as big as their pinky toe.  so what i'm asking is that should a jagre, who is 16 feet tall, have a larger-than-normal sized weapon?
> 
> i don't really know what sort of a "handed-ness" the jagre would need for its weapon, but it doesn't carry a shield or use any other melee attacks, so would it really matter?




It's OK, really.    

Check out the storm giant.  It just says "greatsword", but it does 4d6 points of damage.  That's because it is actually a Gargantuan greatsword.  It's just the wacky new 3.5 way of doing things...they don't refer to the weapons by their size anymore, with the titan being a notable exception, probably due to their oversized weapon ability. 

So yes, the jagre could wield a Large heavy mace, which would do 2d6 points of damage, in one hand, just like a human could wield a Medium heavy mace, which does 1d8 points of damage, in one hand.   In either creature's entry, however, it just reads "heavy mace" in the 3.5 way of doing things.

I think I confused the matter by mentioning wielding two-handed.  In theory, a jagre could wield a Huge mace in two-hands.  However, in the 3.5 way of doing things, it would need to be a different type of weapon, like a greatmace or something.  (Man, I'm getting confused just typing this).

Basically, they wanted to get away from halflings having to have different versions of every weapon.   Now, they can just say that a halfling wields a greatsword that does 1d8 points of damage, rather than it wielding a longsword two-handed that deals 1d8 points of damage.   Personally, I prefer the 3E method.


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## BOZ (Feb 20, 2004)

OK, i'll incorporate that in a minute.  in the meantime...

OK, here are the two stat blocks:

*Jagre*
Huge Giant (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 12d8+48 (102 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +5 natural, +3 masterwork hide armor), touch 7, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+26
Attack: Large? heavy mace +17 melee (X+9) or slam +16 melee (1d6+9)
Full Attack: Large heavy mace +17 melee (X+9) or slam +16 melee (1d6+9)
Space/Reach: 15 ft/15 ft
Special Attacks: X
Special Qualities: change shape (jaguar form), displacement, low-light vision, resistance to ranged attacks
Saves: Fort +12 Ref +3 Will +5
Abilities: Str 29, Dex 8, Con 19, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 8
Skills: Bluff +1, Climb +9, Hide -9, Intimidate +7, Jump +9, Listen +4, Spot +4, Survival +4
Feats: Blind-Fight, Multiattack, Persuasive, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (heavy mace)


*Jagre (Beast Form)*
Huge Giant (Shapechanger)
Hit Dice: 12d8+60 (114 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 40 ft (8 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+26
Attack: Tentacle +15 melee (1d8+8)
Full Attack: 2 tentacles +15 melee (1d8+8) and bite +13 melee (2d6+4)
Space/Reach: 15 ft/10 ft (15 or 20 ft? with tentacles)
Special Attacks: X
Special Qualities: change shape (jaguar form), displacement, low-light vision, resistance to ranged attacks
Saves: Fort +13 Ref +5 Will +5
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 13, Con 20, Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 8
Skills: Bluff +1, Climb +8, Hide +1, Intimidate +7, Jump +8, Listen +4, Spot +4, Survival +4
Feats: Blind-Fight, Multiattack, Persuasive, Power Attack, Weapon Focus (heavy mace)


I’m thinking maybe an additional racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently when in displacer form, as I think it should have those abilities.


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> I’m thinking maybe an additional racial bonus to Hide and Move Silently when in displacer form, as I think it should have those abilities.




Good idea.


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## BOZ (Feb 20, 2004)

i think it needs it.  those stat blocks look otherwise kosher?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

Don't forget to add +4 to Jump in displacer beast form for having a land speed of 40 ft.

It's funny seeing a displacer beast with Weapon Focus (heavy mace).


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## BOZ (Feb 20, 2004)

heheh  

what's the best way to write up its change shape power?

“A jagre may transform itself into displacer beast form at will, gaining its attacks and special abilities. In its cat-like shape, a jagre attacks with two tentacles, inflicting 2d4 points of damage on its victims. If pressed, it may attack with two claws and a bite for damage of 1-3/1-3/1-8, but is more likely to attempt to escape or switch back to humanoid form.

In beast form, a jagre has the same armor class, hit dice, hit points, and saving throws as its humanoid form. It gains the beast's displacement ability, however, making it appear to be three feet from its actual location. Anyone attacking the jagre's beast form receives a -2 on his attack roll. In addition, the creature makes saving throws at +2 while in this form.”


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

When in doubt, borrow...

Alternate Form (Su): A jagre can shift between its giant and displacer beast forms as a standard action. In displacer beast form, it gains the natural attacks, physical ability scores, and special abilities of the beast.

A jagre remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does a jagre revert to any particular form when killed. A true seeing spell reveals both forms simultaneously.


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## BOZ (Feb 20, 2004)

sounds good.  updating...


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2004)

An adult male frost giant is about 15 feet tall and weighs about 2,800 pounds.  So, since the jagre is 16 feet tall, perhaps it could weigh around 3,000 pounds?

LA
+1 for unbalanced ability scores
+1 for natural armor
+1 for displacer beast abilities
+2 for 15 ft. reach
---------------------------------------
+5 Total


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## BOZ (Feb 21, 2004)

awesome!    so is this thing done, now?  is that three completed in one day?  woohoo!  

Edit:  one other bit, the tentacle reach, should that be 15 ft or 20 ft?


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## BOZ (Feb 24, 2004)

bumpo


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## Shade (Feb 24, 2004)

I'm not sure why I missed that post the other day.  It must've been after I went home.

Tentacle reach should be 20 ft.  (Check out the displacer beast pack lord in the MM 3.5 for another Huge displacer beast).


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## BOZ (Feb 24, 2004)

OK.    looking done?


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## Shade (Feb 24, 2004)

I think it's finished.


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## BOZ (Feb 24, 2004)

cool.  i think i want to do the shatjan next - they have intrigued me since i first saw them.


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## Shade (Feb 24, 2004)

Sounds good.  Bring 'em on.


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## BOZ (Feb 28, 2004)

Shatjan

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Tundra and arctic forest
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
DIET: Vegetarian
INTELLIGENCE: Very (11-12)
TREASURE: W (D)
ALIGNMENT: Lawful Neutral

NO. APPEARING: 1-4
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVEMENT: 9
HIT DICE: 8
THACO: 13
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ ATTACK: 1-8 or weapon
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Breath weapon, spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: +1 weapon or better to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: M (5'-7')
MORALE: Elite (13-14)
XP VALUE: 3,000

The shatjan is a powerful protector of the icy far north. There it lives in solitude, watching over the flocks of reindeer that roam the tundra.

The shatjan has the body of a man or woman, strong and stocky, and the head of a reindeer. Males sport large antler racks while females have antlers that are somewhat smaller. The head, neck, shoulders, and forearms are covered with a thick gray to dark brown coat. Shatjan clothing is made from skins and bark, often decorated with patterns and symbols.

Combat: The shatjan is not by nature a warrior, and seldom seeks out battle. However, in its role as protector of the herds, the shatjan is often forced to fight against predators of all types. The shatjan is accustomed to fighting in snow, ice, and cold. It is never hampered by these conditions and will often try to lure its opponents to a position that places them at a disadvantage-a deep drift or a slippery patch of ice. In combat it uses bone-tipped harpoons, wooden clubs, or short bows.

The shatjan has a breath weapon, usable every round. It can breathe a blast of freezing cold to a range of 5 feet. The cold can only affect a single target per round and causes 3 dice of damage. Because the breath is narrow and concentrated, a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon negates all damage.

The shatjan can also lower temperatures in a 10 foot radius. This is an innate ability and does not require any concentration. The temperature drops by 10 degrees each round. When the temperature drops to 0, those in the radius suffer 1-2 points of damage per round., At -20 degrees or lower, the damage suffered increases to 1-4 points per round. Those dressed appropriately for that temperature suffer correspondingly less damage. Thus, if the temperature is already 0 and the characters are wearing parkas, no damage is suffered until the temperature reaches -20, and then the damage is half normal.

The shatjan is immune to cold and all cold-based attacks. It can be hit only by +1 weapons or better.

Habitat/Society: Shatjans are solitary creatures, moving with the annual migrations of the reindeer herds.

During the summer, it lives in a small family group at the edge of the forest and tundra. There they build temporary camps, little wickiups of fir branches and birch bark. During winter they follow the reindeer back into the forests and live in ice caves or leather tents. Since shatjans do not need to protect themselves against the cold, they build these shelters for convenience and comfort.

A typical camp has only one male and one female, who mate for life, and a number of young. Females are equal to males in combat ability, while the young have 1-5 hit dice and no special abilities.

Shatjan are closely linked to reindeer and serve as their guardians. They can speak with animals and predict weather. The guardianship of a herd does not mean they defend against all predators. The shatjan become involved only if the predators become too damaging in their attacks. In addition, they act to minimize the damage from natural disasters, such as fires or famine, by guiding their herds to safe grounds.

The shatjan have no friendship or dislike of humans, viewing them as yet another force to contend with. They haltingly speak the language of humans, usually that of whatever tribe is closest to their territory. In addition, they speak their own tongue.

Ecology: The shatjan eat much the same foods as reindeer. In addition, they sometimes trade with humans for vegetable delicacies they cannot get in the north.

The northern human tribes consider the shatjan to be powerful totem spirits. The creatures figure strongly in local folklore, since the reindeer herds are vital to the survival of the tribes. No wise hunter begins a hunt without first making an offering to the shatjan. When the creatures are encountered, tribesmen treat them with great respect and consider the meeting to be a good omen.



some preliminary stats for the shatjan:

*Shatjan*
Medium Fey (Cold)
Hit Dice: 8d6+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 25 ft (5 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+X
Attack: X
Full Attack: (Gore? Bite?) +X melee (1d8+X) or weapon +X melee ()
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: damage reduction X/X
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int 12, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: 77
Feats: 3

Environment: Cold plains and forest
Organization: Solitary or (1-4)
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: X
Alignment: Always lawful neutral
Advancement: X
Level Adjustment: +X


A shatjan is 5-7 feet tall and weighs

A shatjan speaks Sylvan

COMBAT



Originally found in Horde Campaign set


Given the new setup for file attachments, I’ll try to post pictures with each monster now.


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## Shade (Feb 29, 2004)

> The shatjan have no friendship or dislike of humans, viewing them as yet another force to contend with. They haltingly speak the language of humans, usually that of whatever tribe is closest to their territory. In addition, they speak their own tongue.



Perhaps in addition to (or instead of) Sylvan, they should speak Shatjan and a halting form of Common?


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## Shade (Mar 1, 2004)

> The shatjan is accustomed to fighting in snow, ice, and cold. It is never hampered by these conditions and will often try to lure its opponents to a position that places them at a disadvantage-a deep drift or a slippery patch of ice.



Here's my take on this ability:

Cold Fighting (Ex):  A shatjan can move into a snow-covered or heavy snow-covered square with no movement penalties.

For attacks, how about:   Gore +X melee (1d8+X) or club +X melee (1d6+X) or shortbow +X ranged (1d6/x3)?


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2004)

For abilitiy scores, how about Str 15, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 15?

The picture makes them seem as strong as a muscular human.


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## BOZ (Mar 4, 2004)

sounds good.  did you see the ToH2 preview with the ice gnome?  we could copy its ability to walk in snow unhindered i'm sure.


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2004)

I did see it and I do agree.


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## BOZ (Mar 4, 2004)

“The shatjan has a breath weapon, usable every round. It can breathe a blast of freezing cold to a range of 5 feet. The cold can only affect a single target per round and causes 3 dice of damage. Because the breath is narrow and concentrated, a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon negates all damage.”

“The shatjan can also lower temperatures in a 10 foot radius. This is an innate ability and does not require any concentration. The temperature drops by 10 degrees each round. When the temperature drops to 0, those in the radius suffer 1-2 points of damage per round., At -20 degrees or lower, the damage suffered increases to 1-4 points per round. Those dressed appropriately for that temperature suffer correspondingly less damage. Thus, if the temperature is already 0 and the characters are wearing parkas, no damage is suffered until the temperature reaches -20, and then the damage is half normal.”

“It can be hit only by +1 weapons or better.”

5/cold iron?  Or would we want a better DR since it had this ability back in the old days, whereas a lot of fey got 5/cold iron when they never had the “+1 or better” thing before?

“They can _speak with animals_ and _predict weather_.”

New stats:

*Shatjan*
Medium Fey (Cold)
Hit Dice: 8d6+24 (52 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 25 ft (5 squares)
Armor Class: 20 (+1 Dex, +9 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 19
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+10
Attack: X
Full Attack: Gore +10 melee (1d8+2) or club +10 melee (1d6+2/x2) or shortbow +9 ranged (1d6/x3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, spell-like abilities
Special Qualities: damage reduction X/X
Saves: Fort +5 Ref +7 Will +8
Abilities: Str 15, Dex 12, Con 16, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 15
Skills: 77
Feats: 3


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> “The shatjan has a breath weapon, usable every round. It can breathe a blast of freezing cold to a range of 5 feet. The cold can only affect a single target per round and causes 3 dice of damage. Because the breath is narrow and concentrated, a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon negates all damage.”



*Breath Weapon (Su):* 5-foot cone (necessary?), once every 1d4 rounds (or once per round?), damage 3d6 cold, Reflex DC X negates (or half?). The save DC is Constitution-based.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> “The shatjan can also lower temperatures in a 10 foot radius. This is an innate ability and does not require any concentration. The temperature drops by 10 degrees each round. When the temperature drops to 0, those in the radius suffer 1-2 points of damage per round., At -20 degrees or lower, the damage suffered increases to 1-4 points per round. Those dressed appropriately for that temperature suffer correspondingly less damage. Thus, if the temperature is already 0 and the characters are wearing parkas, no damage is suffered until the temperature reaches -20, and then the damage is half normal.”



Should we just go with the normal effects of cold weather?   If so...

*Drop Temperature (Su):*  As a standard action, the shatjan can lower the temperature by 10 degrees in a 10-foot radius centered on the shatjan.  All normal effects for cold weather apply.  This effect lasts for X rounds.  If the shatjan uses this ability again, the effects stack.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> “It can be hit only by +1 weapons or better.”
> 
> 5/cold iron? Or would we want a better DR since it had this ability back in the old days, whereas a lot of fey got 5/cold iron when they never had the “+1 or better” thing before?



I'd go with 10/cold iron.  They have 8 HD, and the 6 HD nymph has 10/cold iron.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> “They can _speak with animals_ and _predict weather_.”



Is there a 3.5 equivalent of _predict weather_?


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## BOZ (Mar 4, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> *Breath Weapon (Su):* 5-foot cone (necessary?), once every 1d4 rounds (or once per round?), damage 3d6 cold, Reflex DC X negates (or half?). The save DC is Constitution-based.




all breath weapons are cones or lines, right?  the "blast of cold" could be a cone, but this line throws it up for grabs for a line instead: "Because the breath is narrow and concentrated, a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon negates all damage."



> Should we just go with the normal effects of cold weather?   If so...
> 
> *Drop Temperature (Su):*  As a standard action, the shatjan can lower the temperature by 10 degrees in a 10-foot radius centered on the shatjan.  All normal effects for cold weather apply.  This effect lasts for X rounds.  If the shatjan uses this ability again, the effects stack.




works for me.   for duration, maybe it takes as many rounds to return to normal as the shatjan spent causing the effect?



> I'd go with 10/cold iron.  They have 8 HD, and the 6 HD nymph has 10/cold iron.




cool. literally.  



> Is there a 3.5 equivalent of _predict weather_?




doubt it.  we can always pull up the old description and rework it for 3.5 - done it many times before.


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> all breath weapons are cones or lines, right? the "blast of cold" could be a cone, but this line throws it up for grabs for a line instead: "Because the breath is narrow and concentrated, a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon negates all damage."



Oh yeah, duh.   



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> works for me.  for duration, maybe it takes as many rounds to return to normal as the shatjan spent causing the effect?



Good call!



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> doubt it. we can always pull up the old description and rework it for 3.5 - done it many times before.



That is probably the best course of action.


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## BOZ (Mar 8, 2004)

predict weather doesn't appear to be in the 2E PHB, but here it is from 1E:

Predict Weather (Divination)
Level: 1
Range: 0
Duration: 2 hours/level
Area of Effect: Nine square miles
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 round
Saving Throw: None

Explanation/Description: When a predict weather spell is cast by a druid, he or she gains 100% accurate knowledge of the weather (sky, temperature, precipitation) in a nine square mile area centering on the druid. For each level of experience of the druid casting the spell, two hours advance weather can be forecast. Thus, at 1st level the druid knows what the weather will be for two hours; at second level he or she knows the weather for 4 hours in advance, etc.


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## BOZ (Mar 8, 2004)

also, do you think that breath weapon sounds more like a line or a cone?


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## Shade (Mar 8, 2004)

The breath weapon should probably be a line.

Will this work?

Predict Weather (Su):  Once per day (?), a shatjan can determine with 100% accuracy the weather conditions (sky, temperature, precipitation) in a nine square mile area centered on itself.  It can predict the weather up to X hours in advance.


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## BOZ (Mar 9, 2004)

we'll pretend he would be aN 8th-level caster, so 16 hours.  i'll let him do it 2/day, so if he really wanted to he would always know what temperature it is going to be all day long.


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## BOZ (Mar 9, 2004)

OK, posting.


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## Shade (Mar 9, 2004)

Good call on predict weather caster level and times per day.

Shouldn't what you have in the Full Attack line go in the attack line, and the full attack line be as follows (since it has a +8 base attack bonus)?

Full Attack:  Club +10/+5 melee (1d6+2/x2) and gore +5 melee (1d8+2) or shortbow +9/+4 ranged (1d6/x3)


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## BOZ (Mar 9, 2004)

LOL!  they're not supposed to have +8, i goofed...   fey are 1/2 HD for BAB.    there we go, me thinking with only two brain cells at a time...


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## Shade (Mar 9, 2004)

D'oh!  I should have caught that, too.   Sometimes we are dain bramaged.


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## BOZ (Mar 9, 2004)

it's ok, we all make mistakes.  

could you do me a small favor?  i can't look at the ToH2 preview at work - could you type up that movement ability that the ice gnome has please?  

for CR... 5?


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## Shade (Mar 9, 2004)

*Here ya go...​
Snow Move (Ex):​*​​Because of its oversized flat feet, a barbegazi can walk on top of deep snow and suffers no penalties when moving through snowy terrain.​
CR 5 seems reasonable.​


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## BOZ (Mar 9, 2004)

ok, updating in homebrews.


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

Suggestions:

Make the Attack line the same as the Full Attack line.

Skill Ranks:  Diplomacy 11, Handle Animal 11, Knowledge (nature) 11, Listen 11, Sense Motive 11, Spot 11, Survival 11  (or possibly lower Diplomacy and give it ranks in Hide and Move Silently)?

Feats:  Great Fortitute, Skill Focus (Handle Animal), Track

Advancement:  9-16 HD (Medium)


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

How about:

Diplomacy 8, Handle Animal 14, Hide 7, Knowledge (nature) 12, Listen 5, Move Silently 6, Sense Motive 8, Spot 5, Survival 12


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

It can only have 11 ranks in a given skill, though, right?  (8 HD+3)


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

were we supposed to pay attention to that?


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

Umm....yeah?


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

LOL  ok, never gave it much thought.    i'll rework that a bit.


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

better? 

Skills: Diplomacy 8, Handle Animal 11, Hide 8, Knowledge (nature) 11, Listen 7, Move Silently 7, Sense Motive 8, Spot 7, Survival 11


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

Looks good.  Lots of tasty synergy bonuses, too.


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

cool.    updating in homebrews...


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

LA +3  (+1 for unbalanced stats, +1 for natural armor, +1 for at will spell-like ability).

For weight, the pic makes it look fairly solid.  Maybe 300-350 lbs.?


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

i'm sure the head is quite a bit heavier than a human's also.


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

Yeah, from all that BRAIN!


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

heheh  

so, looks about done.  should we give it more languages than Sylvan and Common?


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

That's probably sufficient.  None of the other languages seem particularly useful to it.


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

OK, which critter should we go with next?


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## Shade (Mar 10, 2004)

One of the dragons (if it doesn't have age categories, of course  ).   If not, the highest-level critter you can find.


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## BOZ (Mar 10, 2004)

okie dokie!


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## Filby (Mar 11, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> One of the dragons (if it doesn't have age categories, of course  ).   If not, the highest-level critter you can find.




Between the three, Gaumhavi is the only dragon who doesn't have age categories... after her, I reckon that Monkey would probably be the highest level.

Monkey. Man... back in high school my Chinese teacher wouldn't stop telling stories about that stupid primate. 

Up to three pages of conversions! Woo!


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## BOZ (Mar 11, 2004)

i'll pass the dzalmus and rain dragon on to krishnath if he doesn't have them already.  gaumhavari here we come.


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## Shade (Mar 11, 2004)

Bring on his majestic purpleness.


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## BOZ (Mar 11, 2004)

her, i think.


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## BOZ (Mar 21, 2004)

Gaumahavi, Greater Purple Dragon

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Subarctic desert, high mountains
FREQUENCY: Very Rare (unique)
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any, but most active at twilight
DIET: Special (Carnivore)
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional (15-16)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Neutral

NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: -2
MOVEMENT: 15, Fl 40
HIT DICE: 16 (128 hit points)
THACO: 5
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3 or dust storm and/or spell
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8/1-8/5-30
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Special
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Only hit by +3 or better magical weapons in astral (dust) form.
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 35%
SIZE: G (125' long)
MORALE: Fanatic (19)
XP VALUE: 18,000

Gaumahavi is a unique type of dragon. Though her long, snaky form is similar in appearance to that of an oriental dragon, she has little in common with them.

Thousands of years ago, Gaumahavi was the pet leopard of Surtava, the famous Ulgarian prince who gave up his power and wealth to seek enlightenment as a beggar, and who founded the Padhran religion now followed by the citizens of Ra-Khati. As a result of her close contact to the Padhra, Gaumahavi developed a soul. This newfound soul set Gaumahavi on a series of incarnations; her present incarnation is that of a great purple dragon.

Combat: In battle, Gaumahavi is a cunning predator who approaches combat in much the same way she approached hunting in her previous lives as predators. She uses her spells and breath weapons to disable her opponents, then keeps her exposure to a minimum while moving in for the kill.

Gaumahavi is the Great Dragon of the Desert Winds. As such, she has complete control over air currents within a 500-yard radius, and twice per day can create five rounds of dust storm causing 2d4 points of damage per round and knocking the victim off his feet (save vs. breath weapon for half damage and to retain footing). Gaumahavi's breath weapon, which she can use up to nine times a day, consists of a great cloud of powdery purple dust 100 feet long. This cloud is 5 feet in diameter at the base and 50 feet at the end. It does 8d10 points of choking damage to any breathing creature (save vs. breath weapons for half damage).

She can polymorph into any predatory animal or assume astral -form at will. When in astral form, a shadow of her body, in the form of purple dust, remains on the Prime Material Plane. This form can only be struck by +3 or better magical weapons. By   dissolving one dust body and forming another in a different part of the world, she is able to move over great distances instantaneously.

Gaumahavi can cast the following spells once per day: Wizard: 1) color spray, gaze reflection; 2) darkness, 15' radius, whispering wind; 3) blink, wind wall; 4) dimension door, rainbow pattern; 5) telekinesis, teleport; 6) control weather, project image; 7) reverse gravity, vanish.

Priest: 1) animal friendship, locate animals or plants; 2) snake charm,. speak with animals; 3) hold animal, summon insects; 4) giant insect, repel insects; 5) animal growth.

Habitat/Society: Gaumahavi prefers to inhabit arid lands at high altitudes. She is by nature a solitary creature who avoids contact with men, though she is occasionally coerced into cooperating with certain powerful individuals. _A nomadic huntress, Gaumahavi does not collect treasure.

Ecology: In astral form, Gaumahavi draws her sustenance from the mystic energies of Toril. However, in normal corporeal form, she is a voracious carnivore.





some preliminary stats for Gaumahavi:

*Gaumahavi, Greater Purple Dragon*
Colossal Dragon (Earth? Air?)
Hit Dice: Xd12+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 40 ft (8 squares), fly 100 ft (X)
Armor Class: X (+X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +X/+X
Attack: 
Full Attack: Bite?? +X melee (2d8+X)
Space/Reach: X ft/X ft
Special Attacks: breath weapon, dust storm, spells/spell-likes
Special Qualities: astral (dust) form, polymorph, spell resistance X
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int X, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: X
Feats: X

Environment: Temperate and warm desert and mountains
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: ---
Level Adjustment: ---


Gaumahavi is 125 feet long and weighs over X tons.


COMBAT


Originally found in


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## Krishnath (Mar 21, 2004)

I think 30 HD is about right for this one.


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## Shade (Mar 22, 2004)

Probably.

Borrowing from BOZ's post in the Dragon Magazine thread...



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> For comparison’s sake, here are the 1E dragons’ HD from the MM:
> 
> Black: 6-8
> Blue: 8-10
> ...



16 HD would put it in line with 1E Tiamat.  3E Tiamat has 49 HD, which is probably too high for this one.   However, the great wyrm had 13-15 HD, and we bumped it up to 32, so maybe we should give Gaumahavi around 36 HD?


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## BOZ (Mar 22, 2004)

well, our great elder wyrm is 32... so, she should at least be able to hold her own against one of those, i would think.


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## Shade (Mar 22, 2004)

I'd go with 34-36 HD.   Definitely the Air subytpe ("Gaumahavi is the Great Dragon of the Desert Winds").


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## BOZ (Mar 22, 2004)

agreed.  and 36 isn't too much for a unique dragon, is it?


----------



## Shade (Mar 22, 2004)

Not at all.  Several of the Wymrs of the North have 36+ HD.


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## Krishnath (Mar 23, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> i'll pass the dzalmus and rain dragon on to krishnath if he doesn't have them already.  gaumhavari here we come.




I think I have the Rain Dragon in a PDF somewhere, but please send the other my way 

As for Gaumahavi, 36 is a good number of HD, giving her 13 feats. A base attack bonus of +36, and base saves of: Fort +20, Ref +20, and Will +20.

For ability scores, I suggest: 

Str 39, Dex 10, Con 27, Int 16, Wis 17, Cha 16.

Although we might want to bump the mental stats to the early 20's or so.


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## Shade (Mar 23, 2004)

Krish, I think you might want to reconsider those ability scores.  

Stats of other high-HD dragons:

Ancient gold: Str 43, Dex 10, Con 29, Int 28, Wis 29, Cha 28
Red wyrm: Str 41, Dex 10, Con 31, Int 24, Wis 25, Cha 24
Juvenile force:  Str 43, Dex 10, Con 29, Int 30, Wis 31, Cha 30
Young prismatic:  Str 37, Dex 10, Con 29, Int 28, Wis 29, Cha 28


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## Shade (Mar 24, 2004)

Spell-Like Abilities:  1/day--_animal growth_ (DC X), _blink, color spray_ (DC X), _control weather, deeper darkness, dimension door_ (DC X), _giant vermin, hold animal_ (DC X), _project image_ (DC X), _rainbow pattern_ (DC X), _repel vermin, reverse gravity_ (DC X), _speak with animals, telekinesis_ (DC X), _teleport_ (DC X), _vanish_ (DC X), _whispering wind, wind wall_.  Caster level Xth.  The save DCs are Charisma-based.

The following spells do not exist in 3.5:
_gaze reflection_
_animal friendship_ (this was rolled into animal companion class feature)
_locate animals or plants_ (_locate creature_?)
_snake charm_ (_charm monster_, but only reptilies?)
_summon insects_ (_summon swarm_?)


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## Krishnath (Mar 25, 2004)

Crap, I missed she is now Colossal. Let me revise the stat suggestion:

Str 47, Dex 10, Con 33, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 26?


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## Shade (Mar 25, 2004)

Krishnath said:
			
		

> Crap, I missed she is now Colossal. Let me revise the stat suggestion:
> 
> Str 47, Dex 10, Con 33, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 26?



Perfect!


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## BOZ (Mar 25, 2004)

Good deal, keep talking, I will get to this thread and the others soon enough…  (busy busy busy at work).

Also, it won’t really apply to this thread, but leo wants to discuss LA’s and keep the discussion of LA’s going in this thread: http://65.127.163.19/showthread.php?t=65783&page=3


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## Shade (Mar 25, 2004)

As you wishhhhhhhhh....

Since she started life as a leopard, perhaps we could give her some of the leopard's abilities? The idea of a pouncing, raking dragon appeals to my sinister soul.  

Here they are, for ease of reference:

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, Gaumahavi must hit with her bite attack. She can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If she wins the grapple check, she establishes a hold and can rake.

Pounce (Ex): If Gaumahavi charges a foe, she can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +X melee, damage X+X.

Skills: Gaumahavi has a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. She has a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. Gaumahavi can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.


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## Krishnath (Mar 26, 2004)

Good idea, just copy the abilities from the leopard as you have done, and update the name and stuff.


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## Shade (Mar 26, 2004)

Cool.  I updated them in the previous post as you suggested, in case BOZ agrees and wants to cut n' paste 'em later.


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## BOZ (Mar 26, 2004)

Wicked idea!  I likee.    combat flavor should include a line like, “sometimes Gaumi instinctively attacks like the leopard of her past life” only written better.  

Both of my supervisors are off today, so this should allow me some time to work on more important stuff.    back to you soon…


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## Shade (Mar 26, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Wicked idea! I likee.  combat flavor should include a line like, “sometimes Gaumi instinctively attacks like the leopard of her past life” only written better.



Great idea!   How about:  "Although she often takes advantage of the powerful abilities of her draconic form, Gaumahavi sometimes slips into the instinctive predatory attack modes of her previous incarnations, pouncing upon foes, latching on with her jaws, and raking with her claws."



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Both of my supervisors are off today, so this should allow me some time to work on more important stuff.  back to you soon…



Sweetrock!


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## Shade (Apr 5, 2004)

> Gaumahavi is the Great Dragon of the Desert Winds. As such, she has complete control over air currents within a 500-yard radius, and twice per day can create five rounds of dust storm causing 2d4 points of damage per round and knocking the victim off his feet (save vs. breath weapon for half damage and to retain footing).



Control winds at will for the former?   Control weather (duststorm only) for the latter?



> Gaumahavi's breath weapon, which she can use up to nine times a day, consists of a great cloud of powdery purple dust 100 feet long. This cloud is 5 feet in diameter at the base and 50 feet at the end. It does 8d10 points of choking damage to any breathing creature (save vs. breath weapons for half damage).



Should we have it doe 8d10 damage of some sort, then apply the choking effects of smoke?



> She can polymorph into any predatory animal or assume astral -form at will. When in astral form, a shadow of her body, in the form of purple dust, remains on the Prime Material Plane. This form can only be struck by +3 or better magical weapons. By dissolving one dust body and forming another in a different part of the world, she is able to move over great distances instantaneously.



Alternate form/change shape for the former?   Gaseous form and/or astral projection for the latter?


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## BOZ (Apr 5, 2004)

promise to take some time to look at this one as soon as i can...


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## BOZ (Apr 6, 2004)

see?  i don't lie.  



> The following spells do not exist in 3.5:
> gaze reflection



skip it.


> animal friendship (this was rolled into animal companion class feature)



skip it.


> locate animals or plants (locate creature?)



that should do.


> snake charm (charm monster, but only reptilies?)



isn’t there some kind of spell that charms or controls animals?


> summon insects (summon swarm?)



that will work, too.




> Control winds at will for the former? Control weather (duststorm only) for the latter?



as supernatural abilities, that sounds more or less right.



> Should we have it doe 8d10 damage of some sort, then apply the choking effects of smoke?




well, that certainly is a tricky one for the breath weapon.  What sort of asphyxiation damage is there?  Something like suffocation?



> Alternate form/change shape for the former? Gaseous form and/or astral projection for the latter?




alternate form is usually what is used for creatures that take a specific set of forms isn’t it?

I like the idea of a special form of astral projection that leaves a gaseous form-like “imprint” on the material form.  


More…
Ideas for natural armor?  Translating directly, she would have an AC of 22, which means –8 for size, and her natural armor would be +30.  want to make it higher?  

And here is a new stat block:

*Gaumahavi, Greater Purple Dragon*
Colossal Dragon (Air)
Hit Dice: 36d12+396 (633 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 40 ft (8 squares), fly 100 ft (X)
Armor Class: X (-8 size, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +36/+70
Attack: 
Full Attack: Bite?? +46 melee (2d8+X)
Space/Reach: 30 ft/20 ft (30 with bite?)
Special Attacks: breath weapon, dust storm, spells/spell-likes
Special Qualities: astral (dust) form, polymorph, spell resistance X
Saves: Fort +31 Ref +20 Will +28 (base 20 for all?)
Abilities: Str 47, Dex 10, Con 33, Int 26, Wis 27, Cha 26
Skills: 546
Feats: 13


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## Krishnath (Apr 6, 2004)

Using the official dragons as a guideline would indicate that her natural armor should be equal to her HD-1, or 35 at her current HD.


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## Shade (Apr 6, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> isn’t there some kind of spell that charms or controls animals?



Yeah, _charm animal.   _

I was thinking along the lines of this ability from the black dragon:

*Charm Reptiles (Sp):* A great wyrm black dragon can use this ability three times per day. It works as a _mass charm_ spell that affects only reptilian animals. The dragon can communicate with any charmed reptiles as though casting a speak with animals spell. This ability is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> well, that certainly is a tricky one for the breath weapon. What sort of asphyxiation damage is there? Something like suffocation?



I'd imagine that one of the following is as close as we'll get...

SMOKE EFFECTS
A character who breathes heavy smoke must make a Fortitude save each round (DC 15, +1 per previous check) or spend that round choking and coughing. A character who chokes for 2 consecutive rounds takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage.

Smoke obscures vision, giving concealment (20% miss chance) to characters within it.

SUFFOCATION
A character who has no air to breathe can hold her breath for 2 rounds per point of Constitution. After this period of time, the character must make a DC 10 Constitution check in order to continue holding her breath. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success.

When the character fails one of these Constitution checks, she begins to suffocate. In the first round, she falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, she drops to –1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, she suffocates.

Slow Suffocation: A Medium character can breathe easily for 6 hours in a sealed chamber measuring 10 feet on a side. After that time, the character takes 1d6 points of nonlethal damage every 15 minutes. Each additional Medium character or significant fire source (a torch, for example) proportionally reduces the time the air will last. Small characters consume half as much air as Medium characters. A larger volume of air, of course, lasts for a longer time.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> alternate form is usually what is used for creatures that take a specific set of forms isn’t it?



You are correct, sir.   



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Ideas for natural armor? Translating directly, she would have an AC of 22, which means –8 for size, and her natural armor would be +30. want to make it higher?



Higher.  It sounds like Krishnath has the answer.


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## BOZ (Apr 9, 2004)

took a crack at working up some of her powers:

Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day - animal growth (DC X), blink, color spray (DC X), control weather, deeper darkness, dimension door (DC X), giant vermin, hold animal (DC X), locate creature, project image (DC X), rainbow pattern (DC X), repel vermin, reverse gravity (DC X), speak with animals, summon swarm, telekinesis (DC X), teleport (DC X), vanish (DC X), whispering wind, wind wall. Caster level Xth. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

We should consider changing some of those times per day to “at will”.  Maybe not most of them, though.

Charm Reptiles (Sp): Gaumahavi can use this ability X times per day. It works as a mass charm spell that affects only reptilian animals. Gaumahavi can communicate with any charmed reptiles as though casting a speak with animals spell. This ability is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell.

Breath Weapon (Su?): Gaumahavi can breathe out a great cloud of powdery, purple dust, 9 times per day.  This cloud is 5 feet in diameter at her end, and 50 feet long at the end, and 100 feet long total.  All breathing creatures in that area must succeed at a Fort save (DC X) or spend that round choking and coughing.  Any creature that fails its saving throw must make a new saving throw every subsequent round, or continue choking on the dust.  For every round a creature spends choking, it takes (3d6?) points of nonlethal damage.

Control Winds (Sp?): Gaumahavi can use control winds, at will.  She can affect up to a 1500-foot radius around her.

Is this what you meant for this? (not sure how to incorporate the 2d4 points of damage per round):

Dust Storm (Sp?): Gaumahavi can create a dust storm twice per day.  This functions as the control weather spell, except that she can only create or do away with dust storms.  This effect lasts for five rounds, knocking characters off their feet on a failed Reflex save (DC X).  The save DC is Constitution-based.

Alternate Form (Su?): Gaumahavi can assume the form of any predatory animal of (Colossal?) size or smaller as a standard action. This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on herself (caster level Xth), except that Gaumahavi does not regain hit points for changing form. Gaumahavi can remain in her alternate form until she chooses to assume a new one or return to her natural form.

Very very rough, but:

“Astral Form” (Su?): Gaumahavi can use astral projection on herself only, as a standard action.  She leaves behind a small portion of herself, consisting of a form of purple dust, on the Material plane.  This form functions as the gaseous form spell, and allows her to see and hear anything that goes on around her.  She can guide this form to any location on the Material plane, using her winds.  She can reenter the Material plane wherever her dust form exists.


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## Krishnath (Apr 11, 2004)

Suggestion: Change the breathweapon to be usable once every 1d4 rounds instead of 9 time per day. This suggestion is for two reasons. 1, It causes consistency with other dragons (which reminds me, I really should start with the amber...) and 2, It will rarely come into play more than a few times in combat anyway.


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## Shade (Apr 12, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day - animal growth (DC X), blink, color spray (DC X), control weather, deeper darkness, dimension door (DC X), giant vermin, hold animal (DC X), locate creature, project image (DC X), rainbow pattern (DC X), repel vermin, reverse gravity (DC X), speak with animals, summon swarm, telekinesis (DC X), teleport (DC X), vanish (DC X), whispering wind, wind wall. Caster level Xth. The save DCs are Charisma-based.
> 
> We should consider changing some of those times per day to “at will”. Maybe not most of them, though.



I'd recommend the following "at will":  color spray, speak with animals, telekinesis, and whispering wind.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Charm Reptiles (Sp): Gaumahavi can use this ability X times per day. It works as a mass charm spell that affects only reptilian animals. Gaumahavi can communicate with any charmed reptiles as though casting a speak with animals spell. This ability is the equivalent of a 1st-level spell.



I'd go with 3 times per day like the black dragon.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Breath Weapon (Su?): Gaumahavi can breathe out a great cloud of powdery, purple dust, 9 times per day. This cloud is 5 feet in diameter at her end, and 50 feet long at the end, and 100 feet long total. All breathing creatures in that area must succeed at a Fort save (DC X) or spend that round choking and coughing. Any creature that fails its saving throw must make a new saving throw every subsequent round, or continue choking on the dust. For every round a creature spends choking, it takes (3d6?) points of nonlethal damage.



Definitely Supernatural.  I agree with Krishnath on changing it to once every 1d4 rounds instead of 9 time per day.  3d6 nonlethal damage could work, since it is dust instead of smoke, and probably causes scratching as well as chocking.   I'd also add in something about it obscuring vision.   Would we be better off making this a standard cone rather than a cloud?



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Control Winds (Sp?): Gaumahavi can use control winds, at will. She can affect up to a 1500-foot radius around her.



Spell-like is probably right for this ability.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Dust Storm (Sp?): Gaumahavi can create a dust storm twice per day. This functions as the control weather spell, except that she can only create or do away with dust storms. This effect lasts for five rounds, knocking characters off their feet on a failed Reflex save (DC X). The save DC is Constitution-based.



Spell-like sounds right again.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Alternate Form (Su?): Gaumahavi can assume the form of any predatory animal of (Colossal?) size or smaller as a standard action. This ability functions as a polymorph spell cast on herself (caster level Xth), except that Gaumahavi does not regain hit points for changing form. Gaumahavi can remain in her alternate form until she chooses to assume a new one or return to her natural form.



Su - yes.  Colossal - yes.  Caster level - 20th.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> “Astral Form” (Su?): Gaumahavi can use astral projection on herself only, as a standard action. She leaves behind a small portion of herself, consisting of a form of purple dust, on the Material plane. This form functions as the gaseous form spell, and allows her to see and hear anything that goes on around her. She can guide this form to any location on the Material plane, using her winds. She can reenter the Material plane wherever her dust form exists.



This looks like a good start.  Astral travel has always been one of those areas of the D&D rules I just don't get.   Same goes for illusions.   I might not be much help on this one.     But hey, maybe I'll learn something.


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## BOZ (Apr 12, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> Definitely Supernatural.  I agree with Krishnath on changing it to once every 1d4 rounds instead of 9 time per day.  3d6 nonlethal damage could work, since it is dust instead of smoke, and probably causes scratching as well as chocking.   I'd also add in something about it obscuring vision.   Would we be better off making this a standard cone rather than a cloud?




is there a dragon breath weapon precedence in 3E for a cloud?  if not, we might as well switch to cone.



> This looks like a good start.  Astral travel has always been one of those areas of the D&D rules I just don't get.   Same goes for illusions.   I might not be much help on this one.     But hey, maybe I'll learn something.




keep on truckin!  we'll get there sooner or later.


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## Shade (Apr 13, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> is there a dragon breath weapon precedence in 3E for a cloud? if not, we might as well switch to cone.



Not that I have seen.  It looks like line or cone.


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## Filby (Apr 13, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> Not that I have seen.  It looks like line or cone.




Yeah. Cone sounds good.


----------



## BOZ (Apr 13, 2004)

Hmm, thought that I had heard of a cloud, maybe shadow dragon or something.  Oh well, it is really no big deal to make it a cone.


----------



## BOZ (Apr 14, 2004)

should we limit the cone to 70 feet or can we make it bigger for this big gal?


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## Filby (Apr 14, 2004)

I think bigger would be OK. She's been through several cycles of reincarnation, and she probably in her last life before achieving Nirvana, so I'd say she's worked hard enough for an abnormally large breath weapon.


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## Shade (Apr 15, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> should we limit the cone to 70 feet or can we make it bigger for this big gal?



Limit it.  Even Bahamut, Tiamat, and Sardior are limited to 70 feet for their cone breath weapons, and they're gods.


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## Krishnath (Apr 15, 2004)

I agree with Shade on this one. No sense in giving her a larger breathweapon when 70' is good enough for a deity.


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## BOZ (Apr 16, 2004)

Party poopers.    ok filby, guess they’re right, facts is facts.


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## Shade (Apr 16, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Party poopers.  ok filby, guess they’re right, facts is facts.



You called that correctly.  Krishnath and I are part of a pack of Triumph the Insult Comic Dogs.  Your ideas are good...for us to poop on.


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## Filby (Apr 17, 2004)

Aw, shucks. 

Well, being LN at heart, I respect that... 70 feet it is.


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## BOZ (Apr 19, 2004)

we've been working on her for too long!  

posting in homebrews...

and here's a picture!


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## BOZ (Apr 19, 2004)

comments?


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## Shade (Apr 19, 2004)

Speed:  Most colossal dragons have clumsy maneuverability.

Attack:  I'd go with bite.

Saves:  You are correct at base +20 for all.

I like the extended reach for bite.

Since she works like a predator, I'd focus on the following skills:   Balance, Climb, Hide, Jump, Listen, Move Silently, Spot, and Survival.  Since she lived with a prince, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) seems appropriate.  I could also see her with Tumble (since she's "descended" from cats), Knowledge Nature, and Sense Motive.

For feats, I like Track, Run, Power Attack, Improved Bull Rush, Awesome Blow, Flyby Attack, Hover, Snatch, Improved Critical (bite and/or claw), Dire Charge, and Legendary Tracker.


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## BOZ (Apr 20, 2004)

For skills then, how about: 
Balance, Climb, Concentration, Hide, Jump, Intimidate, Knowledge (nature), Knowledge (nobility and royalty), Knowledge (religion), Listen, Move Silently, Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Survival, Tumble

Religion is due to her background like nobility would be.

For feats (13 right?), I would go with:
Awesome Blow, Dire Charge, Flyby Attack, Hover, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (bite), Legendary Tracker, Power Attack, Run, Snatch, Stealthy, Track, Weapon Focus (bite)

And to get this out of the way, do you think we need more on this?  Does it look sound enough as-is?

“Astral Form” (Su?): Gaumahavi can use astral projection on herself only, as a standard action.  She leaves behind a small portion of herself, consisting of a form of purple dust, on the Material plane.  This form functions as the gaseous form spell, and allows her to see and hear anything that goes on around her.  She can guide this form to any location on the Material plane, using her winds.  She can reenter the Material plane wherever her dust form exists.



> She can polymorph into any predatory animal or assume astral -form at will. When in astral form, a shadow of her body, in the form of purple dust, remains on the Prime Material Plane. This form can only be struck by +3 or better magical weapons. By   dissolving one dust body and forming another in a different part of the world, she is able to move over great distances instantaneously.
> 
> Ecology: In astral form, Gaumahavi draws her sustenance from the mystic energies of Toril. However, in normal corporeal form, she is a voracious carnivore.


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## Shade (Apr 21, 2004)

This all looks good.


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## BOZ (Apr 21, 2004)

how about (spending 546 ranks): 
Balance +37, Climb +26, Concentration +31, Hide +36, Jump +26, Intimidate +31, Knowledge (nature) +31, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +29, Knowledge (religion) +31, Listen +36, Move Silently +36, Search +29, Sense Motive +29, Spellcraft +29, Spot +36, Survival +37, Tumble +36
(Ability mods: Str +18, Dex +0, Con +11, Int, Wis, Cha: +8)
(plus Stealthy feat, though –8 for Hide; +4 to Jump, and synergy bonuses)


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## BOZ (Apr 22, 2004)

sounds about right?


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## Shade (Apr 23, 2004)

That sounds about right.  You might also want to add (+39 following tracks) after the Survival modifier.  This seems to be a standard now for the Search synergy bonus.


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## BOZ (Apr 23, 2004)

Right.  I hadn’t added synergy yet – here’s how it looks once all the modifiers go in:
Balance +39, Climb +44, Concentration +42, Diplomacy +12, Hide +30, Jump +50, Intimidate +39, Knowledge (nature) +41, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +37, Knowledge (religion) +39, Listen +44, Move Silently +38, Search +37, Sense Motive +37, Spellcraft +37, Spot +44, Survival +45 (+47 following tracks), Tumble +38


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## Shade (Apr 23, 2004)

Excellent!


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## BOZ (Apr 23, 2004)

Good deal.  

Now, we need to set her CR (and I guess SR can be based off of that as well).  I’m thinking it should be over 30… working with the linnorms, I see the 28 HD corpse tearer has CR 28.

Weight – want to take a guess?  Do we have enough to compare to?  She’s almost twice as long as the Tarrasque, which is 130 tons, and she’s longer than the tallest of the titans, and we have Crius as the heaviest at 800,000 pounds (400 tons).

Language suggestions?


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## Shade (Apr 23, 2004)

Some comparable creatures for CR estimation:
Ancient Red or Silver Dragon (34 HD) - CR 23
Wyrm Red or Silver Dragon (37 HD) - CR 24
Mountain Landwyrm (40 HD) - CR 22
Swamp Landwyrm (36 HD) - CR 20

She seems less deadly than a wyrm red or silver dragon (20d10 breath weapon damage seems more powerful to me than choking, and her other abilities, while powerful, don't match the abilities of a 17th-level spellcaster).  However, she could beat the stuffing out a mountain landwyrm, so I'd place her at CR 23.

I say double the weight of the tarrasque.  She has a body shape more similar to it than to the titans.

Suggested languages:  Common, Draconic, Auran, Terran.


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## BOZ (Apr 23, 2004)

Aww, only 23… well, she isn’t the biggest or the baddest, but definitely one of the uniquest.    CR 23 will do, I suppose.  Would 24 be too much?

I’ll say 250 tons, since she is not quite twice the size of the Tarrasque.  



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> Common, Draconic, Auran, Terran




I’m not even entirely sure that she should speak Draconic.    I mean, I guess it does make sense on the one hand, but on the other hand she is more of a dragon in form than at heart… 
Maybe add Celestial to that list?

Caster level for spell-likes?  20?

Did I mention adding these bonuses to her skills?  Because if I didn’t mention in, then I don’t think I did:
Gaumahavi has a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. She has a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. Gaumahavi can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.


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## Shade (Apr 26, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Aww, only 23… well, she isn’t the biggest or the baddest, but definitely one of the uniquest.  CR 23 will do, I suppose. Would 24 be too much?



Check out a red or silver wyrm and decide for yourself.   



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> I’ll say 250 tons, since she is not quite twice the size of the Tarrasque.



Excellent.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> I’m not even entirely sure that she should speak Draconic.  I mean, I guess it does make sense on the one hand, but on the other hand she is more of a dragon in form than at heart…
> Maybe add Celestial to that list?



I see where you're coming from, but I'd still keep Draconic.  Celestial is fine, too, although she is Neutral so probably doesn't favor talking to goodie-goodies over nasty-baddies.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Caster level for spell-likes? 20?



Sounds good.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Did I mention adding these bonuses to her skills? Because if I didn’t mention in, then I don’t think I did:
> Gaumahavi has a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. She has a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. Gaumahavi can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.



I don't think you did.


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## BOZ (Apr 26, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> I see where you're coming from, but I'd still keep Draconic. Celestial is fine, too, although she is Neutral so probably doesn't favor talking to goodie-goodies over nasty-baddies.




I disagree.  Many neutrals (though not all) are likely to prefer talking to goodies rather than baddies, as goodies are less likely to betray or attack unprovoked.    however, I was mostly suggesting Celestial as an idea because of her unusual nature – I figured she could use some heavenly guidance.  

How are these DC’s?
Spell-Like Abilities: At will - color spray (DC 19), speak with animals, telekinesis (DC 23), whispering wind; 1/day - animal growth (DC 23), blink, control weather, deeper darkness, dimension door (DC 22), giant vermin, hold animal (DC 20), locate creature, project image (DC 25), rainbow pattern (DC 22), repel vermin, reverse gravity (DC 25), summon swarm, teleport (DC 23), vanish (DC X – do we still have this spell?), wind wall. Caster level 20th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.


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## Shade (Apr 26, 2004)

Point taken.      Celestial works for me.

Vanish is still around.  It's Sor/Wiz 7, so DC 25.  I don't see anything wrong with the others.


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## BOZ (Apr 26, 2004)

updating....


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## Shade (Apr 27, 2004)

We may have discussed this earlier, but I can't find it.  Since she's a Colossal dragon, shouldn't she have tail slap, tail sweep, and a crush attack?

What was the formula Krishnath mentioned about determining dragon's SR?


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## BOZ (Apr 27, 2004)

Tail slap, maybe.  Wings, no – she has none.    I just gave her the same attack routine she had before, but I can always add a tail slap, tail sweep, and crush to make her feel more “current.”

As far as figuring out SR, I have no idea.


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## Shade (Apr 27, 2004)

Yeah, no wings would make wing buffets difficult.    

I'd give her the tail and crush attacks.  

The SR formula appears to be 6 + CR.  I checked a few dragons, and this seems to hold up.   I know Krishnath posted a formula in one of these threads, but I can't find it now.


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## BOZ (Apr 27, 2004)

then i'll give her SR 29 unless someone pipes up with a better idea.  

ok, updating... take a nice long look at all the values, since there is a lot, just to make sure we have it right.    i think she's mostly done...

does crush do 4d8+Str bonus or 4d8+Str bonus x 50%?  and how about tail sweep?


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## Shade (Apr 27, 2004)

Both do Str and 1/2 per the dragons overview.

For a colossal dragon:
Tail slap:  4d6
Tail sweep:  2d8
Crush: 4d8


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## BOZ (Apr 27, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> ok, updating... take a nice long look at all the values, since there is a lot, just to make sure we have it right.    i think she's mostly done...




what he said.


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## Shade (Apr 27, 2004)

Claws for a Colossal dragon should deal 4d6.  Tail slap should be 4d6+27.  Tail sweep should be 2d8+27.

I'll check the rest when I get the time.


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## BOZ (Apr 28, 2004)

whoof!  see, that's why i have you checking things for me.  

updating just to fix that...


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## Shade (Apr 28, 2004)

That is why "conversion by committee" works so well.   

Get ready to "whoof" again...

Add to SA line:  improved grab, pounce, rake

Add to SQ line:  Blindsense 60 ft., immunity to sleep and paralysis, keen senses

Do we want to give her frightful presence and damage reduction as well?

Crush DC is indeed 39.

Dust Storm:  Add "The save DC is Charisma-based." and change DC to 36.

Rake:  Attack bonus +46 melee, damage 4d6+9.

Tail sweep DC is indeed 39.

Is the Fort DC allowed for the control winds spell set by the caster level or the standard wind DC?

"Wind Strength: For every three caster levels, you can increase or decrease wind strength by one level. Each round on your turn, a creature in the wind must make a Fortitude save or suffer the effect of being in the windy area."

If it is set by caster level, then we'll need to add caster level to the ability.


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## BOZ (Apr 28, 2004)

Wow, you can really tell when I haven’t been paying enough attention.  



> Do we want to give her frightful presence and damage reduction as well?




suppose so, they do fit in.  



> Is the Fort DC allowed for the control winds spell set by the caster level or the standard wind DC?
> 
> "Wind Strength: For every three caster levels, you can increase or decrease wind strength by one level. Each round on your turn, a creature in the wind must make a Fortitude save or suffer the effect of being in the windy area."
> 
> If it is set by caster level, then we'll need to add caster level to the ability.




ahhh…  no idea.    what’s the main difference there?


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## Shade (Apr 28, 2004)

Frightful Presence (Ex): Gaumahavi can unsettle foes with her mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever she attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of 300 feet are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than Gaumahavi. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a Will save (DC 36) remains immune to Gaumahavi’s frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for 4d6 rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for 4d6 rounds. Dragons ignore Gaumahavi's frightful presence.

(This assumes she is the equivalent of an ancient dragon...if higher, we'll need to adjust the radius).

DR 15/magic?  (As equivalent-CR red dragon).

As for control winds, the difference being a save DC of 23 (10 + her Cha bonus + spell level) for all levels of winds, or a DC of 10 for strong winds, 20 for hurricane-force, or 30 for tornado.


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## BOZ (Apr 28, 2004)

Gaumahavi had 16 HD in 2E, which was the equivalent of:
Old Black Dragon
Adult Blue Dragon
Mature Adult Green Dragon
Young Adult Red Dragon
Very Old White Dragon
Old Brass Dragon
Adult Bronze Dragon
Mature Adult Copper Dragon
Juvenile Gold Dragon
Young Adult Silver Dragon

So really, we’ve been making her out to be tougher than she probably should be.    but at this stage, I don’t want to change it.


For control winds, I really don’t know what to go with.  But situational DC sounds better, I think.  She may be the master of winds, but I think she has far better weaponry in her arsenal than to worry too much about that.


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## Shade (Apr 28, 2004)

Yeah, she's probably gained a few age categories in the last fourteen years.   

Just don't mention the DCs for control winds, and we should have our arses covered.


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## BOZ (Apr 28, 2004)

OK then, looks like we're finally about done with her... updating for one more look-see.


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## Shade (Apr 29, 2004)

Add frightful presence to the SA line, and I think she's finished.


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## Filby (Apr 29, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> So really, we’ve been making her out to be tougher than she probably should be.    but at this stage, I don’t want to change it.




The only way this could be a problem would be if someone were running the "Horde" adventure trilogy converted to 3.5, and I imagine that any DM intrepid enough to convert all the NPCs could probably figure out how to knock down Gaumhavi's CR a few points. I agree that she's A-OK as she is.


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## BOZ (Apr 29, 2004)

Cool.  

So, should the CR stay the same, even with all the abilities we’ve added just now?


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## Shade (Apr 29, 2004)

Yes, because we were using the red dragon as a baseline, and it's got 'em at the same power levels.


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## BOZ (Apr 29, 2004)

guess we're done with her then.    any preference for the next project?


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## Shade (Apr 29, 2004)

Either shimnus or dowagu get my vote.


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## BOZ (Apr 29, 2004)

how's this for fast service?  

Shimnus (Greater Spirit) 
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Arid mountains
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
DIET: Omnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)
TREASURE: V (G)
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil

NO. APPEARING: 1-2
ARMOR CLASS: -3
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 9 + 4
THAC0: 11
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 2-12/2-12
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Breath weapon, enlarge
SPECIAL DEFENSES: +2 or better weapon to hit
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: M (5’-7’)
MORALE: Elite (15)
XP VALUE:

The shimnus is a fearful denizen that once dwelt on some outer plane. Through unfortunate circumstance, the race found its way to the Prime Material plane and has decided to make its home here.

In its natural form, the shimnus appears as an ogre-sized crone, passably human in appearance. Its hair is long and loose, wildly matted and caked with filth. Its teeth are sharp and black. The hands end in long, cracked nails. It dresses in rags of poverty. No male shimnus has ever been seen.

Combat: The shimnus is a fearsome creature in battle, but usually fights as a last resort. It far prefers trickery and guile to combat, although it is not cowardly or weak. Often it will pose as a bizarre old woman, attempting to dupe its victims.

When it does fight, the shimnus uses its claws or magical weapons (50%). These weapons are usually a large set of iron pincers (+1 to hit, 2-16 points of damage) and an iron hammer (+2, 1-8 +2 points of damage). 

Its bizarre weapons are not what make the shimnus fearsome. In addition to its physical attacks, the shimnus can breath fire. The gout of flame is a cone 10 feet long and 3 feet wide. It causes five dice of damage. If the creature chooses to breathe, it cannot make any other attacks in the round. There is no limit to the number of flaming breaths it can use in a day.

Finally, once per day, the shimnus can enlarge itself to the size of a storm giant. When enlarged, it gains a +5 to its THAC0 and +8 to damage. It can hurl boulders for 2-20 points of damage to a range of 200 yards. (It does not gain the full benefits of storm giant size since this is not its natural form.) This enlargement lasts for only one turn (10 rounds).

Because of its extraplanar origins, the shimnus has special defenses and weaknesses. It is immune to all mind control and hold spells. It can be hit only by weapons of +2 enchantment or better. It is, however, susceptible to spells that affect extraplanar creatures, in particular holy word.

Habitat/Society: Shimnuses are solitary creatures and are never found in numbers greater than a pair. Only apparent females have been seen, but this may be because males and females are identical in all ways. Another possibility put forth by scholars is that the males still reside on the home plane and have not yet invaded the Prime Material plane.

Whatever the nature of their social lives, the shimnus prefers to live in barren wilderness at the very fringe of human society. The creatures are omnivorous and have developed a taste for human food, cheeses and milks in particular. As far as is known, they do not eat human, demihuman, or humanoid flesh.

The shimnuses view humans and their like not so much as threats but as dupes and nuisances. They like the Prime Material plane for its pleasant conditions and easy prey. The current inhabitants are minor irritants they must endure. They contemptuously scorn all attempts by the ìlittle thingsî (humans, etc.), to rule or regulate them. Indeed, such attempts usually result in fearful retaliation.

Ecology: As noted before, the shimnuses have developed a taste for human food. They eat prodigious quantities when they do eat, and finding food is one of their major concerns. Whenever possible they try to trick humans into feeding them, but they have been known to offer portions of their treasure hoards for a good meal.


some preliminary stats for a shimnus:

*Shimnus*
Medium Outsider (Native?)
Hit Dice: 9d8+X (X hp)
Initiative: +X
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (+X Dex, +X natural), touch X, flat-footed X
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+X
Attack: X
Full Attack: 2 claws +X melee (2d6+X) or magic weapons (iron pincers and iron hammer)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: breath weapon (fire), enlarge, rock throwing
Special Qualities: damage reduction 10?/X, immune to mind-affecting effects
Saves: Fort +X Ref +X Will +X
Abilities: Str X, Dex X, Con X, Int 10, Wis X, Cha X
Skills: 96 (bluff)
Feats: 4

Environment: Warm mountains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: (standard with double items?)
Alignment: Usually? chaotic evil
Advancement: 10-18 HD (Medium); 19-27 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: +X

A shimnus is 5-7 feet tall, and weighs X pounds.

A shimnus speaks…

COMBAT

USING SHIMNUS WITH ORIENTAL ADVENTURES
If you are using Oriental Adventures rules in your campaign, consider adding the Spirit subtype.  


Originally found in The Horde – Barbarian Campaign Setting (1990, David “Zeb” Cook).


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## Shade (Apr 29, 2004)

Yes to Native subtype.

I find it odd that it states they are "ogre-sized", but then lists them as 5-7 feet tall.

I think the night hag is probably the most comparable creature, so I suggest we use its stats as a baseline:  Str 19, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 11, Wis 15, Cha 12.

Perhaps slightly less Wis, higher Cha (for trickery/disguise)?


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## BOZ (Apr 29, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> I find it odd that it states they are "ogre-sized", but then lists them as 5-7 feet tall.




that is an odd contradiction isn't it?  well, from the picture, i would take them to being of large stature, but other than that line there is nothing to support than being any larger than a big human.


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## Filby (Apr 29, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> Yes to Native subtype.




I concur. However, since they're spirits, I think we should state that if using _Oriental Adventures_, then they should have the (Extraplanar) subtype instead and be native to the plane of the Spirit World.


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## Shade (Apr 29, 2004)

Filby said:
			
		

> I concur. However, since they're spirits, I think we should state that if using _Oriental Adventures_, then they should have the (Extraplanar) subtype instead and be native to the plane of the Spirit World.



BOZ already has you covered on the Spirit World bit (look again ), but can add the bit about the Extraplanar subtype.


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## Filby (Apr 30, 2004)

D'oh!

Far too hasty... hum... hoom...


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## Shade (Apr 30, 2004)

Filby said:
			
		

> D'oh!
> 
> Far too hasty... hum... hoom...



 



> When it does fight, the shimnus uses its claws or magical weapons (50%). These weapons are usually a large set of iron pincers (+1 to hit, 2-16 points of damage) and an iron hammer (+2, 1-8 +2 points of damage).



I'm confused:  Does a shimnus fight with the pincers in one hand and a hammer in the other, or does it fight with either pincers or a hammer, but not both?  Does the picture answer this question?

The more I look at this thing, I think we should increase its size to Large.  Besides "ogre-sized", the pincers do damage appropriate for a larger creature's weapons.  Additionally, if we use a modified form of the _enlarge person _spell, it increases a creature by one size category.  If the shimnus were already Large, increasing to a Huge storm giant would be a smooth transition.


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## BOZ (Apr 30, 2004)

The picture doesn’t tell us much about how the weapons are utilized.  I’d say the description seems to suggest that it wields two weapons at once, but we could always go with “or”.  I’ll think about making them Large.


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## Shade (Apr 30, 2004)

Wow!  That picture doesn't bear any resemblance to the descriptive text.

Is it just me, or does that look like the bus driver from South Park wielding a butcher's cleaver?


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## BOZ (Apr 30, 2004)




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## GreyShadow (May 1, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Ecology: As noted before, the shimnuses have developed a taste for human food. They eat prodigious quantities when they do eat, and finding food is one of their major concerns. Whenever possible they try to trick humans into feeding them, but they have been known to offer portions of their treasure hoards for a good meal.




Sounds a lot like a hobbit.


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## robotroxx (May 1, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> So really, we’ve been making her out to be tougher than she probably should
> be.  but at this stage, I don’t want to change it.






			
				Filby said:
			
		

> The only way this could be a problem would be if someone were running the "Horde" adventure trilogy converted to 3.5, [..]




Well actually we are just running the Horde Trilogy in 3.0 and I am extremly grateful for you guys to convert Gaumahavi.
In fact I think that 16 HD was a tad bit to weak, since she could have been killed by my group of six currently running the adventure. And I also really couldn't see why an army of 40.000 men (including Hill Giants and Griffin-Riders) should go chase a puny 16 HD foe. The way she is now makes much more sense!

If you could also convert the Dowagu and Raja Ambuchar Devajam aka Tan Chin I would be most grateful and I could use them in our campaign!


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## BOZ (May 1, 2004)

wow cool, thanks!  glad you approve.  

as to convering the others, well we do things pretty slowly around here (on purpose, to an extent), so unless you plan on running those modules for a couple of months we might not have those others ready for you.

however, i have had an idea!  

how about if we put the shimnus on hold, and come up with some "quick" stat blocks.  they'll be very incomplete, but they should be enough to get you going and let you fill in the blanks yourself.  we could do HD, ability scores, attacks, DCs, SA&SQ lines, and maybe skip the descriptive text and all the rest.  should take no more than a week to get them all to that state.  sounds good?  then, later on, we can finish them and take our time with them.


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## robotroxx (May 1, 2004)

That sounds great! 
The Dowagu will be encountered by my party within the next 4 weeks and the 'quick' stat blocks will help a lot.

Tan Chin is the great foe to be encountered at the end of the adventure, so this will take at least another 2-3 months.
If you convert him, might you keep in mind these facts?
- There will be a great fight between Tan Chin and Gaumahavi and she will be defeated by Tan Chin. She will be weakened in this fight, because of her previous engagement against an army of Undead.
- Our adventurers will face Tan Chin in the end and it will be a party of 4-6 characters level 8-10. They should have a chance against him although they don't have to destroy him face to face but most of them need to survive long enough to accomplish the task at hand.
(I am a bit sketchy here so that I don't spoil anything for those who still want to play that adventure...)


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## Shade (May 2, 2004)

How about we bust the "stat blocks only" into a separate thread, and that way we can continue to work on shimnus as well?


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## BOZ (May 3, 2004)

i had the same idea soon after i made that first post.  i'll see what i can do to get that started ASAP.


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## Shade (May 3, 2004)

Excellent!


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## BOZ (May 4, 2004)

wanted to post this link awhile ago...   http://65.127.163.19/showthread.php?t=87127

please move all discussion of FRA1-3 there for now; this thread needs to shift back to the shimnus.


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## Shade (May 4, 2004)

OK, shifting back...

Did you decide whether or not to make the shimnus Large?


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## BOZ (May 4, 2004)

Well, hmm…  the height dimensions make it only Medium.  However, looking at the picture you can clearly see that they are very broad and husky, and probably weigh a lot.  Is there any precedent for a creature that is wider than normal pushing it to the next size category?  (for one thing, beholders come to mind…)


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## Shade (May 5, 2004)

I can't find anything humanoid-shaped that does so.

Since they went up to 7' in the old description, and the cutoff for large is 8 ft., adding one foot isn't too much of a stretch, is it?


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## BOZ (May 5, 2004)

you're not going to let me alone until i make them Large are you?


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## Shade (May 5, 2004)

Nope.      I'm fine with keeping them Medium, it's just that almost everything remaining hinges in some way upon their size.   Large would definitely make our lives easier (for the transition to storm giant, mainly).


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## BOZ (May 5, 2004)

ok, ok... Large it is.  it does make sense in many ways, but it doesn't agree with those numbers.


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## BOZ (May 5, 2004)

Still considering…

“In its natural form, the shimnus appears as an ogre-sized crone, passably human in appearance.”
“Often it will pose as a bizarre old woman, attempting to dupe its victims.”

I think the “ogre-sized” is a mistake – or perhaps the author was merely trying to think of a way to suggest that these were big ladies, and blundered a bit on the semantics.

The “passably human” and the fact that it “will pose as a bizarre old woman” suggest to be that they are not bigger than Medium size.

And why can’t we enlarge a Medium to a Huge?    even if enlarge person has a stipulation against that, we can always rewrite it.


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## Shade (May 5, 2004)

I'm not saying we can't, just that it would be a heckuva lot easier.   

Anyway, I surrender.  You've convinced me that they should remain Medium.

Now, to muddy the waters....in the advancement line, are we going to allow them to advance past Medium?  If so, do they become a "bigger" storm giant when they enlarge?   Just some food for thought.


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## BOZ (May 6, 2004)

For advancement I was actually considering “By character class” because I’m not sure I want them to get bigger like a typical monster.


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## Shade (May 6, 2004)

Yeah, let's go with that.


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## Shade (May 12, 2004)

Taking a stab at some of its abilities...



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> When it does fight, the shimnus uses its claws or magical weapons (50%). These weapons are usually a large set of iron pincers (+1 to hit, 2-16 points of damage) and an iron hammer (+2, 1-8 +2 points of damage).



*Shimnus Pincers:* This one-handed exotic weapon is sized for a Large creature. It deals 2d8 points of bludgeoning damage, threatens a critical hit on a natural 20, and deals double damage on a critical hit. A wielder that hits an opponent within one size category can attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If the wielder wins the grapple check, the staff establishes a hold and grabs the opponent, dealing 2d8 points of damage each round the hold is maintained.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Its bizarre weapons are not what make the shimnus fearsome. In addition to its physical attacks, the shimnus can breath fire. The gout of flame is a cone 10 feet long and 3 feet wide. It causes five dice of damage. If the creature chooses to breathe, it cannot make any other attacks in the round. There is no limit to the number of flaming breaths it can use in a day.



*Breath Weapon (Su):* 10-foot cone, once every 1d4 rounds, damage 5d6 fire, Reflex DC X half. The save DC is Constitution-based.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Finally, once per day, the shimnus can enlarge itself to the size of a storm giant. When enlarged, it gains a +5 to its THAC0 and +8 to damage. It can hurl boulders for 2-20 points of damage to a range of 200 yards. (It does not gain the full benefits of storm giant size since this is not its natural form.) This enlargement lasts for only one turn (10 rounds).



*Giant Form (Su):* Once per day, shimnus can enlarge itself to the size of a storm giant. Its size increases to Huge, granting a +16 size bonus to Strength, a –4 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –2 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. Its natural reach increases to 15 ft. 

While in giant form, the shimnus gains the rock throwing (range increment 140 ft., 2d8+X damage) and rock catching abilities of a Huge giant. 

If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the shimnus attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it. The shimnus can remain in giant form for 10 rounds.


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## BOZ (Jun 9, 2004)

Thoughts about pincers… you know, the hand held set of tools called pincers can be used one handed (if you have big enough hands and a strong grip that is).  However, when I try to picture “a large set of iron pincers,” I think of some pretty massive items that even someone as strong as a shimnus is likely to be needs to hands to wield it.  Also, both weapons are identified as “magical weapons,” with the pincers given a +1 to hit, and the iron hammer a +2 with 1d8+2 damage.

Giant Form as written it is close, but not quite right.  I take “once per day, the shimnus can enlarge itself to the size of a storm giant” to mean not so much that the shimnus looks any different, just bigger.  I don’t think Giants even need to be mentioned in the writeup – this is just a size change, so it only needs to be said that she takes on Huge form.    (hey, can we take some inspiration from either the ToH or WotC spriggan?)  

Here is the spriggan’s size-changing ability from FF (maybe we can even do a secondary stat block like the spriggan got):

Size Change (Su): At will, spriggans can change their size in a fashion similar to the effect of an enlarge spell.  The size change from Small to Large gains +8 Strength, -4 Dexterity, +6 Constitution and –2 to attack bonus and Armor class.  A spriggan’s short sword has the same attributes as a Large short sword when enlarged.  An enlarged spriggan is unable to make a sneak attack or use it spell-like abilities.

Let me give it a try here:

Size Change (Su): Once per day, a shimnus can change its size in a fashion similar to the effect of an enlarge person spell.  The size change from Medium to Huge grants a +16 size bonus to Strength, a –4 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –2 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. Its natural reach increases to 15 feet.

(the second paragraph here might not even be necessary, as we can say that this ability is otherwise like the spell?  Keep the 10 round maximum notation though.)
If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the shimnus attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it. The shimnus can remain in giant form for 10 rounds.

I’d prefer to spell these out:

Rock Throwing (Ex): While enlarged, a shimnus can hurl rocks weighing 60 to 80 pounds each (Medium objects) up to five range increments.  The range increment is 140 feet for a shimnus’ thrown rocks.

Rock Catching (Ex): While enlarged, a shimnus can catch Small, Medium, or Large rocks (or projectiles of similar shape). Once per round, a shimnus that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small rock, 20 for a Medium one, and 25 for a Large one.  (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.)  The shimnus must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a rock catching attempt.

Since you had me looking at night hags anyway, I think I like their damage reduction 10/cold iron and magic.


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## Shade (Jun 11, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> Thoughts about pincers… you know, the hand held set of tools called pincers can be used one handed (if you have big enough hands and a strong grip that is). However, when I try to picture “a large set of iron pincers,” I think of some pretty massive items that even someone as strong as a shimnus is likely to be needs to hands to wield it. Also, both weapons are identified as “magical weapons,” with the pincers given a +1 to hit, and the iron hammer a +2 with 1d8+2 damage.



Two-handed is fine with me. I had just got the impression from the original description that it dual wields the pincers and hammer.

As for leaving off the magical enhancement, I tried to follow the "standard" of listing new weapons at their most mundane, and would suggest adding the enhancement bonus on the stat block. 



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Giant Form as written it is close, but not quite right. I take “once per day, the shimnus can enlarge itself to the size of a storm giant” to mean not so much that the shimnus looks any different, just bigger. I don’t think Giants even need to be mentioned in the writeup – this is just a size change, so it only needs to be said that she takes on Huge form. (hey, can we take some inspiration from either the ToH or WotC spriggan?)



Works for me.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Here is the spriggan’s size-changing ability from FF (maybe we can even do a secondary stat block like the spriggan got):



An excellent idea.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Size Change (Su): Once per day, a shimnus can change its size in a fashion similar to the effect of an enlarge person spell. The size change from Medium to Huge grants a +16 size bonus to Strength, a –4 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a –2 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size. Its natural reach increases to 15 feet.
> 
> (the second paragraph here might not even be necessary, as we can say that this ability is otherwise like the spell? Keep the 10 round maximum notation though.)
> 
> If insufficient room is available for the desired growth, the shimnus attains the maximum possible size and may make a Strength check (using its increased Strength) to burst any enclosures in the process. If it fails, it is constrained without harm by the materials enclosing it. The shimnus can remain in giant form for 10 rounds.



That should work.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> I’d prefer to spell these out:
> 
> Rock Throwing (Ex): While enlarged, a shimnus can hurl rocks weighing 60 to 80 pounds each (Medium objects) up to five range increments. The range increment is 140 feet for a shimnus’ thrown rocks.
> 
> Rock Catching (Ex): While enlarged, a shimnus can catch Small, Medium, or Large rocks (or projectiles of similar shape). Once per round, a shimnus that would normally be hit by a rock can make a Reflex save to catch it as a free action. The DC is 15 for a Small rock, 20 for a Medium one, and 25 for a Large one. (If the projectile provides a magical bonus on attack rolls, the DC increases by that amount.) The shimnus must be ready for and aware of the attack in order to make a rock catching attempt.



Good idea.



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Since you had me looking at night hags anyway, I think I like their damage reduction 10/cold iron and magic.



Cool.


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## BOZ (Jun 14, 2004)

Shade said:
			
		

> Two-handed is fine with me. I had just got the impression from the original description that it dual wields the pincers and hammer.




right, it is vague enough to give that idea.  still, I’ll take some liberties in assuming that the weapons are either/or.



> As for leaving off the magical enhancement, I tried to follow the "standard" of listing new weapons at their most mundane, and would suggest adding the enhancement bonus on the stat block.




OK, I gotcha.    where did you get the description from?  Don’t sahuagin or something have a similar sort of weapon?

OK, it’s been awhile since you’ve heard this… posting in homebrews!


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## Shade (Jun 14, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> right, it is vague enough to give that idea. still, I’ll take some liberties in assuming that the weapons are either/or.



Works for me! 



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> OK, I gotcha.  where did you get the description from? Don’t sahuagin or something have a similar sort of weapon?



Close.  Kuo-toa, actually (pincer staff).



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> OK, it’s been awhile since you’ve heard this… posting in homebrews!



What's "homebrews"?


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## BOZ (Jun 14, 2004)

found it yet?


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## Shade (Jun 14, 2004)

BOZ said:
			
		

> found it yet?



I was too stubborn to stop and ask for directions, so it took awhile.   

Add "/x3" to the warhammer's damage on the attack lines.

CR 7 or 8?  Not as good as a vrock at CR 9, but at least as good as a succubus at CR 7.

Usually chaotic evil sounds good.

LA:  +4
+1 unbalanced ability scores
+2 natural armor (additional +1 due to 5 points beyond first 5)
+1 for breath weapon

A shimnus speaks Common and Giant.  (?)

Suggested Skill Ranks:  Bluff 12, Disguise 12, Intimidate 12, Jump 6, Knowledge (nature) 6, Knowledge (the planes) 6, Listen 9, Search 6, Sense Motive 6, Spot 9, Survival 6, Swim 6

Suggested Feats:  Exotic Weapon Proficiency (shimnus pincers), Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Power Attack


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## BOZ (Jun 14, 2004)

i'm inclined to go with CR 8.


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## BOZ (Jun 14, 2004)

ok, here are the new stat blocks:

*Shimnus (Greater Spirit)*
Medium Outsider (Native)
Hit Dice: 9d8+36 (76 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 23 (+1 Dex, +12 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 22
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+14
Attack: Claw +14 melee (2d6+5) or +1 pincers +15 melee (2d8+6) or +2 warhammer +16 melee (1d8+7/x3)
Full Attack: 2 claws +14 melee (2d6+5) or +1 pincers +15 melee (2d8+6) or +2 warhammer +16 melee (1d8+7/x3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, rock throwing
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron and magic, immune to mind-affecting effects, rock catching, size change
Saves: Fort +12 Ref +7 Will +9
Abilities: Str 21, Dex 12, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14
Skills: Bluff +16, Diplomacy +6, Disguise +14 (+16 acting), Intimidate +18, Jump +11, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (the planes) +6, Listen +10, Search +6, Sense Motive +7, Spot +10, Survival +7 (+9 aboveground, +9 on other planes, +9 following tracks), Swim +11
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pincers), Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Persuasive

*Shimnus – Huge Form*
Huge Outsider (Native)
Hit Dice: 9d8+36 (76 hp)
Initiative: -1
Speed: 30 ft (6 squares)
Armor Class: 21 (-2 size, +1 Dex, +12 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 20
Base Attack/Grapple: +9/+14
Attack: Claw +19 melee (4d6+13) or +1 pincers +20 melee (4d8+14) or +2 warhammer +21 melee (3d6+15/x3)
Full Attack: 2 claws +19 melee (4d6+13) or +1 pincers +20 melee (4d8+14) or +2 warhammer +21 melee (3d6+15/x3)
Space/Reach: 15 ft/15 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon, rock throwing
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/cold iron and magic, immune to mind-affecting effects, rock catching, size change
Saves: Fort +12 Ref +5 Will +9
Abilities: Str 37, Dex 8, Con 18, Int 10, Wis 13, Cha 14
Skills: Bluff +16, Diplomacy +6, Disguise +14 (+16 acting), Intimidate +18, Jump +19, Knowledge (nature) +8, Knowledge (the planes) +6, Listen +10, Search +6, Sense Motive +7, Spot +10, Survival +7 (+9 aboveground, +9 on other planes, +9 following tracks), Swim +11
Feats: Exotic Weapon Proficiency (pincers), Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Persuasive

Environment: Warm mountains
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 8
Treasure: Standard coins; standard goods; double items
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +4


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## Shade (Jun 14, 2004)

Huge form notes:

Armor Class: 19 (-2 size, -1 Dex, +12 natural), touch 7, flat-footed 19

Grapple bonus should be +30.

I think all the attacks need to be incremented by 1, since it gained +8 from Str, -2 from size, for a total change of +6.

Swim should go up by 8.


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## BOZ (Jun 14, 2004)

you're right, i overlooked all of that; updating in homebrews.


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## Shade (Jun 15, 2004)

Looks good (for a hideous crone) now.


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## BOZ (Jun 15, 2004)

i agree, as good as they are going to get.    is the 300 lb weight about right?


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## Shade (Jun 15, 2004)

300 lbs. sounds about right.


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## BOZ (Jun 16, 2004)

OK, she's a-done then.


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## Shade (Nov 7, 2005)

I figure since it's been well over a year it might be time to revisit this thread.    

How about the Manggus?


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## BOZ (Nov 7, 2005)

i'm not touching this thread until we see what's going to be in Dragon #339.


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## Shade (Nov 7, 2005)

Ahh...good point.


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## Kalaboah (Jul 19, 2006)

*Finishing off that list ...*

I was looking into running a 3.5E party of new arrivals to Maztica and am in need of some of the other monsters to be updated. 2nd ed might as well be greek to me, so maybe you guys can help me out. Unless I missed something, the following mobs still need to be done:

Maztica Campaign Setting
Plumazotl

FMA1 – Fires of Zatal
Ahuizotl (alternate version in FF, but original not done)
Dragon, Maztican - Tlalocoatl (Rain Dragon)

FMA2 – Endless Armies
Bacar

FMQ1 – City of Gold
Pasocada Ghost

The last 2 I do not need, but it might be fun to throw them in anyways.

Thanks guys


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## BOZ (Jul 19, 2006)

sounds about right.  my computer is down at the moment, but when it's back up i'll see if i can get the plumazotl going.


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## Kalaboah (Jul 23, 2006)

*Plumazotl*

I figured i could open my PDF of the Maztica Campaign setting and get the ball rolling.

Plumazotl

			Lesser		Greater
Climate/Terrain		Any		Any
Frequency		Very Rare	Very Rare
Organization		Solitary		Solitary

Activity Cycle		Any		Any
Diet			Special		Special
Intelligence		Very (11-12)	High (13-14)

Treasure			Special		Special
Alignment		Any good		Any good
No. Appearing		1		1 (1-2)

Armor Class		3	             3
Movement		3, Fl 12		9, Fl 48
Hit Dice			1 to 5		6 to 10

THAC0			1 to 2 HD: 19	6 HD: 15
			3 to 4 HD: 17	7 to 8 HD: 13
			5 HD: 15		9 to 10 HD: 11

# of Attacks		3		3
Damage/Attack		1d4/1d4/1d4	1d6/1d6/1d6
Special Attack		Spell use		Spell use

Special Defense		    Hit only by magical weapons
Magic Resis		5% per HD	5% per HD
Size			T to S		M to L

Payit legends tell of a time long ago when a powerful plumaweaver, Itzamna Manik, set out to create life with his magic. After many years of labor, using spells that have long been forgotten, he created a plumazotl, a living creature of pluma. The gods destroyed Itzamna Manik for his audacity, but some of his creations managed to escape and
reproduce. Their descendants still inhabit lonely spots in Maztica. These rare creatures are composed completely of brightly colored feathers. They commonly take the forms
of birds, although some have a humanoid shape. Their sizes range from that of a hummingbird to that of a giant eagle. Plumazotl have very musical voices, and generally
speak an ancient form of Payit as well as the language of intelligent species that dwell near them.

COMBAT: Plumazotl are peaceful creatures, and they generally avoid combat if possible. If forced into combat, an individual defends itself with bites and clawing attacks. A plumazotl may use pluma magic. Lesser plumazotl cast spells as if they were plumaweavers of levels equivalent to their Hit Dice. Greater plumazotl have better spellcasting powers; those with 6 HD cast as 7th level plumaweavers, 7 HD as 8th level, 8 HD as 10th level, 9 HD as 12th level, and those with 10 HD cast as 14th level plumaweavers. Plumazotl are especially vulnerable to fire and take double damage from all fire-based attacks.

HABITAT/SOCIETY: The first of these creatures were given life hundreds of years ago. Granted intelligence and a will to survive, they became a true race and learned to
feed and reproduce. Plumazotl tend to live far from any civilization. They use their spellcasting abilities to create wonders in their homes, which eventually become safe, peaceful places filled with color and music. Though they prefer to live alone, they are unafraid of humans, and sometimes approach them to gain news of what is happening in the outside world. They offer tidbits of information in exchange for a brief conversation, but if given a bit of pluma magic, they become quite friendly and relate any desired information to the best of their ability. These visits are rare and brief, because it takes only a short time to satisfy a plumazotls curiosity about the outside. Though generally solitary, a pair of greater plumazotl sometimes comes together to mate. In a dazzling ritual, they pluck feathers from one another.s bodies, form them into small images of birds or humans, then infuse them with a bit of their magic. These small creatures are lesser plumazotl with 1 Hit Die. A pair of greater plumazotl produces one or two offspring in this way before parting ways. Most plumazotl grow very slowly, finding bright feathers to add to their own bodies. If one finds or is given a pluma talisman, however, it may incorporate the magic of the item, growing by one or more Hit Dice, depending on the power of the talisman. When lesser plumazotl reach the height of their growth, they begin searching for more and more material to incorporate into their forms. After they acquire, or one pluma talisman, they metamorphose into greater plumazotl.

ECOLOGY: Plumazotl feed on feathers and pluma magic, adding items directly into their bodies. Talismans are broken into their component parts before being absorbed. Plumazotl have no natural enemies, though sometimes men hunt them for their inherent magic. If killed, a plumazotl produces a quantity of feathers suitable for featherweaving
and pluma magic. A greater plumazotl may yield enough feathers for a blanket of featherweaving.


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## Shade (Nov 23, 2006)

The Dzalmus appeared in a recent dragon.

You can defer the rain dragon to the new true dragons conversion  thread.


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## Kalaboah (Jan 12, 2007)

*Update*

so I was wondering if the experienced crew on En World might help continue this thread and finish off some of the Maztica creatures. If I have missed any of them updated elsewhere (such as the rain dragon is currently being updated in another thread) please let me know.

Thanks guys


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## Shade (Jun 27, 2007)

Sandiraksiva, The Black Courser

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: High mountain meadow/tundra
FREQUENCY: Very Rare (unique)
ORGANIZATION: Solitary or herd
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
DIET: Special
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)
TREASURE: None
ALIGNMENT: Neutral

NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 2
MOVEMENT: 28, Fl 30
HIT DICE: 8 (45 hit points)
THAC0: 13
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2 or breath weapon
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-8+7/1-8+7/ or 5-30 (breath)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Breath weapon
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Only hit by +1 or better weapon
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 55%
SIZE: L (8’ at shoulder)
MORALE: Fanatic (19)
XP VALUE: 5,000

While accompanying Prince Surtava on his search for enlightenment, Gaumahavi (see her entry) bore a litter of cubs. Like its mother, one of those cubs developed an animal soul and began a series of reincarnations. That cub was Sandiraksiva.

Currently, the cub’s enchanted soul inhabits the body of a supernatural black stallion. Unfortunately for Sandiraksiva, this fact has not eluded the Raja of Solon, Ambuchar Devayam. The Raja captured Sandiraksiva and used him to coerce his mother, Gaumahavi, into aiding him in the first war between Solon and Ra-Khati. During that war, Sandiraksiva was captured by the Dalai Lama, who had no idea of the stallionís true nature. 

As his great size might suggest, Sandiraksiva is exceptionally strong, and he can carry or pull as much as any two normal draft horses. He is also extremely fast, and can easily outrun even the fleetest riding horse. Unlike most horses, he has split hooves and can climb the rocky environment of the Katakoro Mountains with ease.

Combat: Sandiraksiva is not aggressive by nature, but will fight tenaciously for his freedom. In combat, he uses his forehooves to lash out, and will resort to his breath weapon when pressed.

In addition to his great strength, Sandiraksiva has several special abilities. Every other round, he can fly up to 800 yards (then he must pause and rest for a round). His most potent weapon is the fireball he can breathe once per day for 5d6 points of damage (save vs. breath weapon for half damage).

Because of his enchanted nature, Sandiraksiva cannot be hurt by anything short of magic or magical weapons of +1 or better.

Habitat/Society: Although he would prefer to graze the high altitude meadows and tundra lands of the Katakoro Mountains, Sandiraksiva has been imprisoned by either the Raja of Solon or the Dalai Lama for the last 50 years.

Ecology: Like most horses, Sandiraksiva eats grass, grains, hay, and the like. However, the Black Courser’s supernatural strength, speed, and powers are energized by the light of the moon. If he is not exposed to moonlight for a substantial period each night, he begins to lose his strength. This loss corresponds roughly to the amount of moonlight he missed. For example, a 30% reduction in exposure results in a 30% loss of movement, damage, flight capability, etc. On totally moonless nights he lapses into complete inactivity, but since he knows when they will be, takes precautions beforehand, when possible. Strength is recovered in 1d6 rounds as soon as he returns to full moonlight.


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## Shade (Jun 27, 2007)

We began working on this one back in May of '04 and this is as far as we got...

Sandiraksiva, The Black Courser
Large Magical Beast
Hit Dice: 8d10+48 (92 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 70 ft (14 squares), fly 80 feet (good)
Armor Class: 18 (-1 size, +3 Dex, +6 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +8/+19
Attack: Hoof +14 melee (1d8+7)
Full Attack: 2 hooves +14 melee (1d8+7)
Space/Reach: 10 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Breath weapon
Special Qualities: Damage reduction 10/magic, darkvision 60 ft, flight, low-light vision, moonlight dependency, spell resistance 22
Saves: Fort +12 Ref +9 Will +4
Abilities: Str 25, Dex 17, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 11
Skills: Climb +19, Listen +12, Spot +12
Feats: Alertness, Iron Will, Run

Environment: Any mountains and plains?
Organization: Solitary or herd (Sandiraksiva plus X horses)
Challenge Rating: 7
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: ---
Level Adjustment: ---

Sandiraksiva is 8 feet long and weighs
Sandiraksiva is about the size of a heavy war horse.

COMBAT

Breath Weapon (Su): “His most potent weapon is the fireball he can breathe once per day for 5d6 points of damage (save vs. breath weapon for half damage).” (Ref DC 17 for half)

Flight (Su?): “Every other round, he can fly up to 800 yards (then he must pause and rest for a round).”

Moonlight Dependency (Ex?): “If he is not exposed to moonlight for a substantial period each night, he begins to lose his strength. This loss corresponds roughly to the amount of moonlight he missed. For example, a 30% reduction in exposure results in a 30% loss of movement, damage, flight capability, etc. On totally moonless nights he lapses into complete inactivity, but since he knows when they will be, takes precautions beforehand, when possible. Strength is recovered in 1d6 rounds as soon as he returns to full moonlight.”

Skills: +8 racial bonus to Climb

Originally found in module FRA1 – Storm Riders (1990, Troy Denning), module FRA2 – Black Courser (1990), and module FRA3 – Blood Charge (1990).


----------



## Mortis (Jun 28, 2007)

Apart from flavour text looks mostly done. 

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Jun 29, 2007)

The special abilities need work.



> Breath Weapon (Su): “His most potent weapon is the fireball he can breathe once per day for 5d6 points of damage (save vs. breath weapon for half damage).” (Ref DC 17 for half)




Do we stick with once per day, or increase the frequency to the usual "once every 1d4 rounds"?  At CR 7, I don't really see the improved frequency as a problem.  Rather than breathing a fireball, I think we should change it to a cone.   60 feet?



> Flight (Su?): “Every other round, he can fly up to 800 yards (then he must pause and rest for a round).”




2400 feet is a hell of a lot of distance to cover in one round.   Maybe we should change this to something akin to a cheetah's sprint ability, except he can fly?

Something like...

Aerial Sprint (Ex): Once per hour, Sandiraksiva can move ten times its normal fly speed (800 feet) when it makes a charge.



> Moonlight Dependency (Ex?): “If he is not exposed to moonlight for a substantial period each night, he begins to lose his strength. This loss corresponds roughly to the amount of moonlight he missed. For example, a 30% reduction in exposure results in a 30% loss of movement, damage, flight capability, etc. On totally moonless nights he lapses into complete inactivity, but since he knows when they will be, takes precautions beforehand, when possible. Strength is recovered in 1d6 rounds as soon as he returns to full moonlight.”




Thoughts on this?


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## Mortis (Jun 29, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> The special abilities need work.



So it would seem - did I look at the right creature   



> Do we stick with once per day, or increase the frequency to the usual "once every 1d4 rounds"?  At CR 7, I don't really see the improved frequency as a problem.  Rather than breathing a fireball, I think we should change it to a cone.   60 feet?



Yeah, every 1d4 rounds. A 60 foot cone sounds good.



> 2400 feet is a hell of a lot of distance to cover in one round.   Maybe we should change this to something akin to a cheetah's sprint ability, except he can fly?



It is a wee bit quick isn't it. Faster than a quickling. 



> Something like...
> 
> Aerial Sprint (Ex): Once per hour, Sandiraksiva can move ten times its normal fly speed (800 feet) when it makes a charge.



That's rather more realistic.



> Moonlight Dependency



Use fatigue rules?

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Jun 29, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Use fatigue rules?




Brilliant!


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## Mortis (Jul 4, 2007)

Time to homebrew this one?

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Jul 5, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Time to homebrew this one?




Yep.


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## Shade (Jul 9, 2007)

Rewriting this...

Moonlight Dependency (Ex?): “If he is not exposed to moonlight for a substantial period each night, he begins to lose his strength. This loss corresponds roughly to the amount of moonlight he missed. For example, a 30% reduction in exposure results in a 30% loss of movement, damage, flight capability, etc. On totally moonless nights he lapses into complete inactivity, but since he knows when they will be, takes precautions beforehand, when possible. Strength is recovered in 1d6 rounds as soon as he returns to full moonlight.”

...to this...

Moonlight Dependency (Su):  If Sandiraksiva is not exposed to moonlight for at least 2 hours in a given day, he is fatigued until he next is exposed to the light of the moon.  If not exposed to any moonlight in a given day (such as a moonless night), Sandiraksiva is instead exhausted.   Spells and effects that remove fatigue or exhaustion cannot remove these conditions; however, spells or effects that create moonlight can do so.

How does that look?


----------



## Mortis (Jul 9, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> How does that look?



I like.

Regards
Mortis


----------



## Shade (Jul 9, 2007)

Updated in Homebrews.  What's left?


----------



## Mortis (Jul 10, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Updated in Homebrews.  What's left?



I think we can call it done.

Regards
Mortis


----------



## Shade (Jul 10, 2007)

Good deal.


----------



## Shade (Oct 2, 2007)

*Manggus (Greater spirit) * 
CLIMATE/ TERRAIN: Steppe
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Carnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Very (11-12)
TREASURE: Y, U (E)
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
NO. APPEARING: 1-3
ARMOR CLASS: -1
MOVEMENT: 15
HIT DICE: 8 + 3
THAC0: 11 
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 3-18 and weapon +4
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Shapechange
SPECIAL DEFENSES: see below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: L (8'-10')
MORALE: Elite (15)
XP VALUE: 

The manggus is a powerful evil spirit that lives in the lands of men. There it uses its powers to terrorize and exact sacrifices from the population.

In its natural form, the manggus is a fearsome-looking creature. it stands about the size of an ogre. Skin hangs loose on its body in wrinkled folds. Its eyes are bloodshot, and when they water, drops of blood flow like tears.  It has four long fangs, two extending upward almost to its eyes, and two extending down, well below its chin. its true form is seldom seen, however, since the creature most often travels in different shape.

Combat: In the rare instances when encountered in its natural form, the manggus fights with its bite and a weapon. The most common weapon used is a large maul, capable of causing 2-12 points of damage, +4 for the great strength of the creature. it attacks with great ferocity in the initial rounds and will continue to do so as long as the fight goes its way. However, if outmatched, outnumbered, or unlucky, it will flee at the first opportunity.
if it cannot flee, it will try to surrender. If these options fail, it continues to fight at the best of its ability. 

However, the manggus is rarely battled in its natural form, since it has the formidable ability to change its shape. it can do this up to four times per day. The shapes available are limited to creatures known to the manggus.  This prevents it from becoming a very rare or unique
creature, or one from some far distant land. In general the manggus assumes the form of humans, animals, giants, nagas, or other fearsome creatures found throughout its range. As per the spell, the shapechanged manggus has all the power and abilities of the form it has
assumed. A manggus usually has a repertoire of preferred forms that it will use in a fight. Thus, one might favor a stone giant for combat, an asperii for speed, and an invisible stalker to avoid detection. Being highly intelligent, the manggus will assume whatever form is best for its needs.

In addition to its shapechanging ability, the manggus has several innate magical powers. its can cause disease with its touch three times per day and can use ESP (60' range), comprehend languages, and cause fear at will. It can only be hit by weapons of +1 enchantment or greater. It is immune to all charm and hold spells. It is immune to cold and all cold-based spells. It is, however, vulnerable to fire. If struck by magical flame while
shapechanged, it must revert to its natural form. in its natural form, it has a -1 on its saving throw against all fire-based attacks.

Habitat/Society: The manggus tends to be a solitary creature, living alone or in mated pairs. Such bonds are formed for life, and the male and female are quite devoted to each other.  Beyond this, it shuns the company of its own kind, fearing competition and exposure should
too many of its race gather in one place.

What the manggus competes for is humans, its favored food. Knowing that it is outnumbered and ultimately weaker than its prey, the manggus uses trickery and deceit to obtain its meals. Its favorite method is to use its powers and rule over a village or town in human form.
There it uses it shapechanging ability to terrorize the humans into making offerings and sacrifices. if it cannot obtain its meals this way, it preys on lonely travelers or isolated farmhouses. Should things become too dangerous, the manggus has no hesitation about moving to a new town and beginning again.

Ecology: The manggus is strictly a predator of man.  Should the human population of an area become too small to support it, or too well protected, it will change its hunting grounds. Although it can disguise itself perfectly as a human, the manggus prefers to avoid large cities, since the risk of discovery there is too great. 

Source:  The Horde Campaign Setting (1990)


----------



## dhaga (Oct 2, 2007)

*Type:* Undead (Cold), or a variety of Outsider?

*Special Qualities:* DR 20/magic, Cold Subtype

*Stats:* High Str, Int and Cha
How about (if Undead) Str 16, Dex 9, Con -, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 15
(Outsider) Same, with Con 13 or 15

*Shapechange*: 4 times per day, as a standard action. Can take any form, size medium to huge, but only if the manggus has personally seen a creature of that type.  The manggus adopts all qualities, including special and spell-like abilities, of the new form.  It can hold the new form for as long as it desires.  If the manggus takes damage from any magical fire source, it is forced back into its normal form.  It may shapechange, without penalty, on the round after it has taken damage from magical fire.

*Cause Disease (Su)*: 3 times/day, touch attack, <disease choices>.
Fort save DC X.  Save is Charisma-based.

*Spell-like abilities:* 3/day -_Cause Fear_, At will - _Comprehend Languages_.  Constantly uses _Detect Thoughts_.  Caster level xth.  Saves are Charisma-based.


----------



## Shade (Oct 8, 2007)

When we converted the similar shatjan, we went with fey.


----------



## freyar (Oct 8, 2007)

You could also make a case for monstrous humanoid, but fey fits as well, I think.  I'm not actually so fond of undead or outsider for this one.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 9, 2007)

I didn't even think about Fey as an option (obviously), but it does fit pretty well.

Sure, fey is good! 

What about the other info? thoughts on ability scores and abilities?


----------



## Shade (Oct 9, 2007)

The abilities look good thus far.

Since it's the size of an ogre, let's use comparable physical stats.  The ogre has Str 21, Dex 8, Con 15.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 9, 2007)

You're right: they're big.  

How about: Str 21, Dex 8, Con 16, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 15


----------



## Shade (Oct 9, 2007)

Added to Homebrews.



> It is immune to all charm and hold spells.




Do we want to go with immunity to mind-affecting effects?  Or limit it to charms and compulsions?



> If struck by magical flame while shapechanged, it must revert to its natural form.




This might be cool to retain.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 10, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Do we want to go with immunity to mind-affecting effects?  Or limit it to charms and compulsions?




I vote we grant it immunity to mind-affecting effects. 



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> This might be cool to retain.




Agreed.  I included it in the Shapechange ability description, which needed rewriting a bit, so here it is again:

*Shapechange (Su):* As a standard action, 4 times per day, a manggus can take the form of any creature, size medium to huge, but only if the manggus has personally seen a creature of that type. The manggus adopts all qualities, including special and spell-like abilities, of the new form. It can hold the new form for as long as it desires. However, if the manggus takes damage from any magical fire source, it is forced back into its normal form. It may shapechange, without penalty, on the round after it has taken damage from magical fire.  The manggus may choose to revert to its normal form at any time, as a move-equivalent action. Reverting to its normal form does not count against its daily use of the ability.

Does that sound OK?  Not too convoluted?

These guys are pretty mean.  DR 15/cold iron?

Need some Feats.
Hmmm.  Its bite sounds really nasty, though it prefers not to use its normal form if it has any choice.  Still, though, Improved Natural Attack (Bite) could give it an edge if it is forced to its normal form.  Would the feat also apply if it takes the form of another creature that has a bite attack?

Maybe something to boost its Charisma-based skills or its Fort / Ref saves?

Skills should definitely include Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive.


----------



## Shade (Oct 11, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> I vote we grant it immunity to mind-affecting effects.




Anyone else?



			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> Agreed.  I included it in the Shapechange ability description, which needed rewriting a bit, so here it is again:
> 
> *Shapechange (Su):* As a standard action, 4 times per day, a manggus can take the form of any creature, size medium to huge, but only if the manggus has personally seen a creature of that type. The manggus adopts all qualities, including special and spell-like abilities, of the new form. It can hold the new form for as long as it desires. However, if the manggus takes damage from any magical fire source, it is forced back into its normal form. It may shapechange, without penalty, on the round after it has taken damage from magical fire.  The manggus may choose to revert to its normal form at any time, as a move-equivalent action. Reverting to its normal form does not count against its daily use of the ability.
> 
> Does that sound OK?  Not too convoluted?




Hmmm...I'm not sure we need to limit it to the 4/day, as most shapechangers now can change at will.

Here's an example writeup:

Change Shape (Su): A doppelganger can assume the shape of any Small or Medium humanoid. In humanoid form, the doppelganger loses its natural attacks. A doppelganger can remain in its humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a doppelganger reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form.

And here's the shapechange spell post-errata:

Shapechange (PHB)
Transmutation
Level: Animal 9, Drd 9, Sor/Wiz 9
Components: V, S, F
Casting Time: 1 standard action
Range: Personal
Target: You
Duration: 10 min./level

This spell functions like polymorph, except that it enables you to assume the form of any single nonunique creature (of any type) from Fine to Colossal size. The assumed form cannot have more than your caster level in Hit Dice (to a maximum of 50 HD). Unlike polymorph, this spell allows incorporeal or gaseous forms to be assumed.

You gain all extraordinary and supernatural abilities (both attacks and qualities) of the assumed form, but you lose your own supernatural abilities. You also gain the type of the new form in place of your own. The new form does not disorient you. Parts of your body or pieces of equipment that are separated from you do not revert to their original forms.

You can become just about anything you are familiar with. You can change form once each round as a free action. The change takes place either immediately before your regular action or immediately after it, but not during the action. If you use this spell to create a disguise, you get a +10 bonus on your Disguise check.


Merging your ideas with these...

Change Shape (Su): A manggus can assume the shape of any Medium, Large, or Huge creature with X HD or less.  The new form must be a creatuere that the manggus has personally seen. In a different form, the manggus loses its natural attacks, but gains all extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the new form. A manggus can remain in a form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a manggus reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form.  If the manggus takes fire damage from any source, it is immediately forced back into its natural form. 

How does that look?



			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> These guys are pretty mean.  DR 15/cold iron?




10/cold iron would probably be more in line with their power level.



			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> Need some Feats.
> Hmmm.  Its bite sounds really nasty, though it prefers not to use its normal form if it has any choice.  Still, though, Improved Natural Attack (Bite) could give it an edge if it is forced to its normal form.  Would the feat also apply if it takes the form of another creature that has a bite attack?
> 
> Maybe something to boost its Charisma-based skills or its Fort / Ref saves?




Yep, Improved Natural Attack would apply to any bite attack, which is nice in this case.    

Negotiator and/or Persuasive could be good choices, as well as the usual Great Fort/Iron Will/Lightning Reflexes as you suggested.



			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> Skills should definitely include Bluff, Diplomacy, Intimidate, and Sense Motive.




Agreed.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 11, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Merging your ideas with these...
> 
> Change Shape (Su): A manggus can assume the shape of any Medium, Large, or Huge creature with X HD or less.  The new form must be a creatuere that the manggus has personally seen. In a different form, the manggus loses its natural attacks, but gains all extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the new form. A manggus can remain in a form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a manggus reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form.  If the manggus takes fire damage from any source, it is immediately forced back into its natural form.
> 
> How does that look?




Looks good!
For the "X HD or less" part, above, how about: X cannot be greater than twice the manggus' hit dice.  For some reason, I am having trouble putting that idea into a nice text form.

“A manggus can assume the shape of any Medium, Large, or Huge creature.  The creature’s hit dice cannot exceed twice the manggus’ hit dice.”

Is that too confusing?



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> 10/cold iron would probably be more in line with their power level.



Sounds good to me 



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> Yep, Improved Natural Attack would apply to any bite attack, which is nice in this case.




Improved Natural Attack (Bite) is definitely in, then 

For its other 2, I vote for Great Fortitude and either Negotiator or Persuasive.  Which skills are those for again?  We got it backwards last time… 

For Skills:
Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Sense Motive
Need 3 more.


----------



## Shade (Oct 11, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> Looks good!
> For the "X HD or less" part, above, how about: X cannot be greater than twice the manggus' hit dice.  For some reason, I am having trouble putting that idea into a nice text form.
> 
> “A manggus can assume the shape of any Medium, Large, or Huge creature.  The creature’s hit dice cannot exceed twice the manggus’ hit dice.”
> ...




Nope, that looks good.




			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> Improved Natural Attack (Bite) is definitely in, then
> 
> For its other 2, I vote for Great Fortitude and either Negotiator or Persuasive.  Which skills are those for again?  We got it backwards last time…
> 
> ...




Negotiator = +2 bonus on all Diplomacy checks and Sense Motive checks.

Persuasive = +2 bonus on all Bluff checks and Intimidate checks.

So probably Persuasive in this case.

It probably can also use the usual Listen and Spot, possibly Knowledge (nature), and maybe Hide and Move Silently.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 11, 2007)

Feats look good: Improved Natural Attack (Bite), Great Fortitude, Persuasive

Skills: Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Intimidate, Sense Motive, Listen, Spot, Hide, Move Silent would all be good.

I vote max ranks on the first 7, then split the remaining points between Hide and Move silent. (6 to Hide, 5 to Move Silent)

I believe that gives us: Bluff +15, Diplomacy +17, Disguise +13, Intimidate +17, Sense Motive +11, Listen +11, Spot +11, Hide +1, Move Silent +4

These totals include synergy bonuses.


----------



## Shade (Oct 11, 2007)

Updated Homebrews.

I took one rank from Move Silently and added it to Hide to help keep them closer.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 11, 2007)

Looks good.
Cleaning up some of our x's:

Hit Dice: 8d6+24 (52 hp)

In order to hit the target AC of 21, he'd have to have +23 Natural.  That seems a bit much, to me.

Attack: Maul +8 melee (2d8+7/x3) or bite +8 melee (2d6+7)
Full Attack: Maul +8 melee (2d8+7/x3) and bite +3 melee (2d6+7)

Treasure: Standard?
Advancement: 9-12 HD (Large)

Cause Disease Fort DC is 16
Caster Level for SLAs: 8th?


----------



## Shade (Oct 12, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> In order to hit the target AC of 21, he'd have to have +23 Natural.  That seems a bit much, to me.




We can borrow/modify one of these...

Sylvan Warrior (Su): A banshrae applies its Charisma bonus as a deflection bonus to its Armor Class. It doesn't lose its Dexterity bonus to AC when flat-footed.

Unearthly Grace (Su): The creature adds its Charisma modifier as a bonus on all its saving throws and as a deflection bonus to its Armor Class.



			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> Cause Disease Fort DC is 16
> Caster Level for SLAs: 8th?




I rolled Cause Disease into the other SLAs (as contagion), as it seems to mimic that spell perfectly.

I'll whip up some flavor text and we'll see where we're at.

CL 8th sounds good.


----------



## Mortis (Oct 12, 2007)

oops double post when I was correcting a typo


----------



## Mortis (Oct 12, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> In order to hit the target AC of 21, he'd have to have +23 Natural.  That seems a bit much, to me.



Don't forget the base score of 10 - which isn't natural armor. IIRC I saw somewhere that is akin to always rolling a '10' on a defensive roll if attacking was contested roll. So he would 'only' need +13.

Still, Shade's idea has merit - I prefer the second option.

Regards
Mortis


----------



## Shade (Oct 12, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Don't forget the base score of 10 - which isn't natural armor. IIRC I saw somewhere that is akin to always rolling a '10' on a defensive roll if attacking was contested roll. So he would 'only' need +13.
> 
> Still, Shade's idea has merit - I prefer the second option.




So...

Unearthly Grace (Su): A manggus adds its Charisma modifier as a bonus on all its saving throws and as a deflection bonus to its Armor Class.

Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +11 natural, +2 deflection), touch 10, flat-footed 21
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +8


----------



## dhaga (Oct 12, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Don't forget the base score of 10



Oh yeah! Duh! 



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> Unearthly Grace (Su): A manggus adds its Charisma modifier as a bonus on all its saving throws and as a deflection bonus to its Armor Class.
> 
> Armor Class: 21 (-1 size, -1 Dex, +11 natural, +2 deflection), touch 10, flat-footed 21
> Saves: Fort +9, Ref +7, Will +8




Awesome!  Looks good to me!



> Full Attack: Maul +8 melee (2d8+7/x3) and bite +8 melee (2d6+7)



Shouldn't the bite be at +3 melee, as a secondary attack?



> Regardless of its form, a manggus fights fiercely in the first few rounds of combat and



That "and" should be removed.

Otherwise, it looks really great!  I really like this creature; very creepy!

If no other issues are found, looks like we need CR, LA, and a weight.


----------



## Shade (Oct 15, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> Shouldn't the bite be at +3 melee, as a secondary attack?




Yep.  Good catch.    



			
				dhaga said:
			
		

> If no other issues are found, looks like we need CR, LA, and a weight.




We made the shatjan (also 8 HD fey) CR 5.  The shapechange may be enough to warrant one higher CR, though.

LA using the Savage Species method:
+2 for high natural armor bonus
+1 for unbalanced ability scores
+2 for damage reduction/cold iron
+1 for at will SLA
-----------------
+6

Ogres at 9 to 10 feet tall weigh 600 to 650 pounds.  These guys seem less bulky and start at 8 feet tall, so maybe 450 to 550 pounds?

Updated in Homebrews.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 15, 2007)

One of my weak points in creature conversions is determining CR :-/  I was thinking CR 7 for this guy. 

I'd say 450 lbs would be a good weight.


----------



## Shade (Oct 15, 2007)

Updated Homebrews  again.

How's it look?


----------



## dhaga (Oct 15, 2007)

Looks finished to me.  Awesome


----------



## Mortis (Oct 16, 2007)

Next 

<edit> Just checked - no more in the queue.

Regards
Mortis


----------



## Shade (Oct 16, 2007)

We outta tackle the other remaining greater spirit, Monkey, while we're on the subject.


----------



## Shade (Oct 16, 2007)

*Monkey (Greater Spirit)*
CLIMATE/ TERRAIN: Any
FREQUENCY: Unique
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Vegetarian
INTELLIGENCE: Supra-genius (19-20)
TREASURE: Special
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic good
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: -10
MOVEMENT: 15, Fl 24
HIT DICE: *
THAC0: 25
NO. OF ATTACKS: 5
DAMAGE/ ATTACK: by weapon +5
SPECIAL ATTACKS: see below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: see below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 30%
SIZE: M (5' 6")
MORALE: Fearless (19-20)
XP VALUE: See below

Monkey is a truly unique being. Once he was an official of the Celestial Bureaucracy in the outer planes. However, for his tricks and mischief, the Celestial Emperor stripped him of much of his power and banished him to Toril on the Prime Material plane.

Monkey can take many different forms, but generally restricts himself to a human appearance or his natural form. This is of a human with a monkey's face, dressed in robes finer than those of the greatest Shou mandarin. He has impeccable manners. (Although by the standards of the Celestial Court he is crude and profane.)

Combat: Monkey never fights unless he wants to; with his powers it is impossible to force him into a battle.

When he does choose battle, he will either fight to kill (against evil opponents) or fight to embarrass and humiliate his enemy. In physical combat, he can make five attacks in a single round, striking with his sword at blinding speed. He can only be hit by +3 weapons or better and regenerates at the rate of 5 hit points per round.

Even more formidable, though, are his magical powers. Monkey has the innate ability to cast almost any magical spell. The only ones denied him are wishes, those that summon creatures from other planes, and those involving planar travel. Beyond these restrictions he can use any other spell he desires simply by thinking about it. He needs no components, gestures, or the like.

Given this power, he is virtually unbeatable in combat.  Although he functions as if he had 20 hit dice, Monkey cannot truly be killed, this being one of the conditions of his banishment. If his physical form is destroyed, he is reborn, hale and well, with the next dawn.

Habitat/Society: Fortunately for the world, Monkey is not interested in power or domination. Indeed, he has developed a paternal attitude toward the beings of this littie island he is stranded upon. if attacked by the inhabitants, he is more likely to teleport his foes to the top of a mountain or onto a lonely island than to kill them outright (which would not be hard for him). 

It is difficult to say what does motivate Monkey. He is a trickster, a gadfly to the great owers of the outer planes.  He has stolen the Peaches of immortality, battled the Animal Kings, studied the Seven Great Disciplines under the Nine Masters, shaved the beard of the Lord of the Dead, and committed many other pranks too numerous to mention.  Although these jests have enraged the greater powers, Monkey shows no fear or sincere remorse for committing them. Even being banished for his pestiferous deeds has not dulled his wit or mischievous nature. There is no doubt that were he returned to the Celestial Bureaucracy
tomorrow, he would immediately resume his old ways, and probably be banished again the day after.

Indeed, if Monkey has any failing, it is his lack of "common sense." He boasts when others know it will get him in trouble. He lies outrageously and without conscience. He commits deeds certain to get him in trouble and makes no effort to hide his involvement in the most outlandish events. He cheerfully taunts his enemies, humiliating them in front of their equals. None of these have earned him many friends among the celestial officials. 

Monkey's treasure is not one that can be carried away.  Although he has many magical items and great wealth, he does not consider these important. Knowledge and information are true treasures. As a reward for services, Monkey typically answers one to three  questions. These can be about anything on Toril, for nothing except the doings of his fellow celestial powers is hidden from him.  

His exploits have earned him a place in the myths of Shou. He is hailed as a comic folk hero by the peasants. in him they have a figure who strikes back at corrupt officials in the name of the peasantry. Many a Robin Hood bandit has taken the name Monkey as his own.

Ecology: What does a godlike being eat? Monkey can live on the very air. He does have a taste for rich food, fruits, and wine. He can eat prodigious quantities without filling himself. It is not a good idea to offer to cook for him. 

Source: The Horde Campaign Setting (1990)


----------



## freyar (Oct 17, 2007)

Oh, this one is excellent!  I recall something about a Monkey from my college Chinese Lit class, too.  Anyway, type seems like it should be Outsider (Native, Chaotic, Good).  Should we limit Int to 20?  I'd think to go higher, probably.


----------



## freyar (Oct 18, 2007)

Ok, I'll get started on him, besides the type (see last post).  How about DR20/magic or even DR20/epic?  Also he should get Fast Healing 5 (or would regeneration be better?).  And

Rejuvenation (Su): Monkey cannot truly be killed.  If his physical form is destroyed (for example, he is reduced to 0 hp or less), he reforms with maximum hp at the following dawn.

Not sure how to tackle the "casts all spells" at the moment.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 18, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> How about DR20/magic or even DR20/epic?



I think epic DR would be more fitting.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Also he should get Fast Healing 5 (or would regeneration be better?).



The text does not say anything about reattaching limbs; I would think Fast Healing would be fine.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Rejuvenation (Su): Monkey cannot truly be killed.  If his physical form is destroyed (for example, he is reduced to 0 hp or less), he reforms with maximum hp at the following dawn.



That looks good.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Not sure how to tackle the "casts all spells" at the moment.



"Monkey can cast all arcane and divine spells at will, except for wishes, miracles, summon monster spells, and spells used for planar travel."

A name for this ability?  "Master of Magic"?


----------



## Shade (Oct 18, 2007)

Horde CS said:
			
		

> Monkey can take many different forms, but generally restricts himself to a human appearance or his natural form. This is of a human with a monkey's face, dressed in robes finer than those of the greatest Shou mandarin. He has impeccable manners. (Although by the standards of the Celestial Court he is crude and profane.)




Alternate Form/Change Shape?



			
				Horde CS said:
			
		

> When he does choose battle, he will either fight to kill (against evil opponents) or fight to embarrass and humiliate his enemy. In physical combat, he can make five attacks in a single round, striking with his sword at blinding speed.




Flurry of blows usable with a sword?



			
				Horde CS said:
			
		

> He can only be hit by +3 weapons or better and regenerates at the rate of 5 hit points per round.




DR /epic and fast healing as you guys described above.



			
				Horde CS said:
			
		

> Even more formidable, though, are his magical powers. Monkey has the innate ability to cast almost any magical spell. The only ones denied him are wishes, those that summon creatures from other planes, and those involving planar travel. Beyond these restrictions he can use any other spell he desires simply by thinking about it. He needs no components, gestures, or the like.




Dhaga's master of magic ability is one way to do this.

Another is to grant him sorcerer spellcasting, stating that any spell is known.  Of course, we'd then have to account for the components being unnecessary...



			
				Horde CS said:
			
		

> Given this power, he is virtually unbeatable in combat.  Although he functions as if he had 20 hit dice, Monkey cannot truly be killed, this being one of the conditions of his banishment. If his physical form is destroyed, he is reborn, hale and well, with the next dawn.




Covered by rejuvenation, above.



			
				Horde CS said:
			
		

> Monkey's treasure is not one that can be carried away.  Although he has many magical items and great wealth, he does not consider these important. Knowledge and information are true treasures. As a reward for services, Monkey typically answers one to three  questions. These can be about anything on Toril, for nothing except the doings of his fellow celestial powers is hidden from him.




How's this for a start?

Omniscient (Su):  Monkey automatically succeeds on any Knowledge check except those involving the direct intervention of beings of divine rank 0 or higher.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 19, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Alternate Form/Change Shape?



I'd say Shapechange, as we did for the manggus.



> Flurry of blows usable with a sword?



That sounds like fun (though not for the opponent).  
"Sword Rain"?
"Flurry of slices"? (ok, that one sounds pretty silly)
"Covered with cuts"? (getting worse; I'd better stop)




> Dhaga's master of magic ability is one way to do this.
> 
> Another is to grant him sorcerer spellcasting, stating that any spell is known.  Of course, we'd then have to account for the components being unnecessary...



And also that certain spells are restricted.  We can go either way; what do others think?



> Omniscient (Su):  Monkey automatically succeeds on any Knowledge check except those involving the direct intervention of beings of divine rank 0 or higher.



I like that.


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## freyar (Oct 19, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Dhaga's master of magic ability is one way to do this.
> 
> Another is to grant him sorcerer spellcasting, stating that any spell is known.  Of course, we'd then have to account for the components being unnecessary...




I like all your suggestions, Shade, esp Omniscience.  

I'd give sorceror spellcasting with all spells (except those specifically listed) known.  Then we can give him eschew materials, still spell, and silent spell as feats, maybe eliminating the increase in casting time for the metamagic feats.  And make his CL really high...


----------



## Shade (Oct 23, 2007)

Before we can proceed much further, we'll need to pick Hit Dice for this fella.   Do we want to stick with 20, as hinted at in the text?


----------



## dhaga (Oct 23, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Before we can proceed much further, we'll need to pick Hit Dice for this fella.   Do we want to stick with 20, as hinted at in the text?




Sure, let's go with 20


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## dhaga (Oct 23, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> I like all your suggestions, Shade, esp Omniscience.
> 
> I'd give sorceror spellcasting with all spells (except those specifically listed) known.  Then we can give him eschew materials, still spell, and silent spell as feats, maybe eliminating the increase in casting time for the metamagic feats.  And make his CL really high...




Eschew materials only accounts for material components that cost 1 gp or less.  We can easily give him a similarly-named ability, however, that allows him to ignore ALL material component requirements for all spells.

I am also fond of Omniscience


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## freyar (Oct 24, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> Eschew materials only accounts for material components that cost 1 gp or less.  We can easily give him a similarly-named ability, however, that allows him to ignore ALL material component requirements for all spells.




Good point, maybe we should just go with a special ability.

20HD is good.


----------



## Shade (Oct 24, 2007)

For ability scores, we could use the solar's as a starting point and shift points here and there to get a good feel.

Str 28, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 23, Wis 25, Cha 25


----------



## freyar (Oct 24, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> For ability scores, we could use the solar's as a starting point and shift points here and there to get a good feel.
> 
> Str 28, Dex 20, Con 20, Int 23, Wis 25, Cha 25




Good suggestion.  I'd maybe swap Str and Dex (he seems more like a finesse sort of guy to me).  Also, since he's supposed to lack common sense (well, in comparison), we should probably drop Wis to 19-21.  What do you think?


----------



## dhaga (Oct 24, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Good suggestion.  I'd maybe swap Str and Dex (he seems more like a finesse sort of guy to me).  Also, since he's supposed to lack common sense (well, in comparison), we should probably drop Wis to 19-21.  What do you think?




I agree with higher Dex, lower Str.  Wis 19 or 20 would be sufficient, I'd think   Let's keep that towering Int score, maybe even bump it to 25?


----------



## Shade (Oct 25, 2007)

How about this?   I shaved 6 points of Wis and put them in Int, and swapped the Dex and Str as suggested.

Str 20, Dex 28, Con 20, Int 29, Wis 19, Cha 25


----------



## dhaga (Oct 25, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> How about this?   I shaved 6 points of Wis and put them in Int, and swapped the Dex and Str as suggested.
> 
> Str 20, Dex 28, Con 20, Int 29, Wis 19, Cha 25




Looks good to me


----------



## freyar (Oct 25, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> How about this?   I shaved 6 points of Wis and put them in Int, and swapped the Dex and Str as suggested.
> 
> Str 20, Dex 28, Con 20, Int 29, Wis 19, Cha 25




That looks pretty good.  

Why don't we just say that Monkey gets Flurry of Blows as a 9th level (or 20th, if there's a difference) monk and give him a sword-like monk weapon?  That might make more sense than changing it to fit  a standard (western) longsword or whatever.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 25, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Why don't we just say that Monkey gets Flurry of Blows as a 9th level (or 20th, if there's a difference) monk and give him a sword-like monk weapon?  That might make more sense than changing it to fit  a standard (western) longsword or whatever.




I think this is a good idea.  He could pick from any of the non-bludgeoning monk weapons.  Could cut someone up pretty bad with a ,

I mean, a kama


----------



## Shade (Oct 25, 2007)

Added to Homebrews.

As far as using swords w/flurry of blows, there's plenty of precedents for non-traditional monk weapons.  For example:

Pole Fighter [Fighter, General]
Benefit: Choose a pole arm (see the Complete Pole Arm chart in Dragon #331). You can treat that weapon as a special monk weapon, allowing you to perform a flurry of blows with it.
Source: Dragon #331, page 28, and Dragon Compendium Volume One, p. 105.


----------



## freyar (Oct 25, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Added to Homebrews.
> 
> As far as using swords w/flurry of blows, there's plenty of precedents for non-traditional monk weapons.  For example:
> 
> ...




True, though I'm thinking partly of flavor, too.


----------



## Shade (Oct 26, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> True, though I'm thinking partly of flavor, too.




We could go with an OA sword, like a katana or wakizashi.


----------



## freyar (Oct 26, 2007)

Sounds good to me.  Then we can give him a feat or something to do flurry of blows with it.  There's probably even an OGC feat lying around in a netbook or something.


----------



## Shade (Oct 26, 2007)

We don't even need to make him burn a feat on it:

Flurry of Blades (Ex):  Monkey has mastered a fighting style combining various martial arts.  Monkey may make a greater flurry of blows as an 11th-level monk, granting him two extra attacks at his full base attack bonus when making a full attack.  He may treat a katana or wakizashi as a special monk weapon, allowing him to perform a flurry of blows with it.  When using weapons as part of a flurry of blades, Monkey applies his Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x 1/2) to his damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether he wields a weapon in one or both hands.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 26, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> We don't even need to make him burn a feat on it:
> 
> Flurry of Blades (Ex):  Monkey has mastered a fighting style combining various martial arts.  Monkey may make a greater flurry of blows as an 11th-level monk, granting him two extra attacks at his full base attack bonus when making a full attack.  He may treat a katana or wakizashi as a special monk weapon, allowing him to perform a flurry of blows with it.  When using weapons as part of a flurry of blades, Monkey applies his Strength bonus (not Str bonus x 1-1/2 or x 1/2) to his damage rolls for all successful attacks, whether he wields a weapon in one or both hands.




Awesome


----------



## Shade (Oct 26, 2007)

A few more attempts at the "Master of Magic" ability:

Master of Magic:   Monkey casts spells as a 20th-level sorcerer.  He treats all arcane and divine spells from any spell list as known spells, with the following exceptions:  limited wish, miracle, wish, spells that allow planar travel, and conjuration spells with the calling or summoning descriptors.   Monkey never needs any verbal, somatic, or material components for these spells, nor does he pay XP costs or require an arcane or divine focus.

...or...

Master of Magic (Sp):   At will, Monkey may use any arcane or divine spell from any spell list as a spell-like ability, with the following exceptions:  limited wish, miracle, wish, spells that allow planar travel, and conjuration spells with the calling or summoning descriptors.   The saving throw DC for such abilities is 17 + spell level (10 + spell level + Monkey's Charisma bonus).

----------------------------------------------

Note that even deities are limited as follows:  

A deity can use any domain spell it can grant as a spell-like ability at will. The deity’s effective caster level for such abilities is 10 + the deity’s divine rank. The saving throw DC for such abilities is 10 + the spell level + the deity’s Charisma bonus (if any) + the deity’s divine rank.


----------



## freyar (Oct 26, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> A few more attempts at the "Master of Magic" ability:
> 
> Master of Magic:   Monkey casts spells as a 20th-level sorcerer.  He treats all arcane and divine spells from any spell list as known spells, with the following exceptions:  limited wish, miracle, wish, spells that allow planar travel, and conjuration spells with the calling or summoning descriptors.   Monkey never needs any verbal, somatic, or material components for these spells, nor does he pay XP costs or require an arcane or divine focus.
> 
> ...




Well, he's mechanically more deific (and much more frightening of an opponent if anyone wants to go up against him) with the SLAs, but maybe we should keep him a step below actual deities by making him use spell slots.  Hard to decide.  I guess I'm leaning toward SLAs, since that seems a little easier and there's probably not much difference in a single encounter.


----------



## dhaga (Oct 26, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Well, he's mechanically more deific (and much more frightening of an opponent if anyone wants to go up against him) with the SLAs, but maybe we should keep him a step below actual deities by making him use spell slots.  Hard to decide.  I guess I'm leaning toward SLAs, since that seems a little easier and there's probably not much difference in a single encounter.



It would only make a difference if he was in combat with an opponent of near-equal power. In this case, spell slots would restrict him more than SLAs.  I vote for SLAs.


----------



## Shade (Oct 30, 2007)

Since it looks like all who have responded are leanding towards SLAs (as am I) shall we go that route and see where it leads?


----------



## freyar (Oct 31, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Since it looks like all who have responded are leanding towards SLAs (as am I) shall we go that route and see where it leads?




Sure thing.


----------



## Shade (Nov 1, 2007)

Taking that approach, does this look feasible?

Master of Magic (Sp): At will, Monkey may use any arcane or divine spell from any spell list as a spell-like ability, with the following exceptions: limited wish, miracle, wish, spells that allow planar travel, and conjuration spells with the calling or summoning descriptors. The saving throw DC for such abilities is 17 + spell level (10 + spell level + Monkey's Charisma bonus).


----------



## freyar (Nov 2, 2007)

This looks pretty good.  Do you think the DCs will be high enough to challenge PCs he's likely to face?  Maybe we can give him some kind of super ability focus or something.


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## Shade (Nov 2, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> This looks pretty good.  Do you think the DCs will be high enough to challenge PCs he's likely to face?  Maybe we can give him some kind of super ability focus or something.




I'm not sure it is necessary, since he can theoretically buff himself endlessly.


----------



## dhaga (Nov 2, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> I'm not sure it is necessary, since he can theoretically buff himself endlessly.




I agree.  Though he still has 7 feats coming to him, so he may get a focus of some sort from there.  I do not think he will require one in addition to his feats, however.


----------



## Shade (Nov 2, 2007)

dhaga said:
			
		

> I agree.  Though he still has 7 feats coming to him, so he may get a focus of some sort from there.  I do not think he will require one in addition to his feats, however.




Suggestions on the feats and skills?


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## freyar (Nov 5, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Suggestions on the feats and skills?




Ugh, it's scary how many skills he's gonna have.  Max out spellcraft, I guess.  Should we bother to give him knowledge ranks?  Probably several types of perform, since he's cultured.  Max out Concentration (I think you still need that with SLAs).  I'd go with the CHA based skills, too: Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Diplomacy.


----------



## Shade (Nov 6, 2007)

I don't see a need for Knowledge skills, except for religion, since he can't use his omniscient ability on deities.


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## dhaga (Nov 6, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Ugh, it's scary how many skills he's gonna have.  Max out spellcraft, I guess.  Should we bother to give him knowledge ranks?  Probably several types of perform, since he's cultured.  Max out Concentration (I think you still need that with SLAs).  I'd go with the CHA based skills, too: Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Diplomacy.




How many skills does he get at max rank?

I agree with freyar and Shade.  Max: Spellcraft, Concentration, Knowledge (Religion), Bluff, Gather Information, Intimidate, Diplomacy, several varieties of Perform(Dance, several instruments, song), and then see how many points are left over.  Tumble and Jump could help his performances.  Climb to match his name


----------



## Shade (Nov 6, 2007)

Skills: 17 at 23 ranks (391 total) 

How about max ranks in...

Balance, Bluff, Climb, Concentration, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge (Religion), Listen, Perform (dance, song, wind instruments), Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Tumble


----------



## freyar (Nov 6, 2007)

I think you've got 18 there.  How about dropping either Balance or Tumble?  Or splitting the ranks about evenly between them?


----------



## Shade (Nov 6, 2007)

Fair enough.  His high Dex and synergy bonuses will still make them more than adequate.

Upon re-reading his entry, Appraise and Intimidate also seem appropriate.  Maybe shave half ranks off spot and Listen and apply to these two skills?


----------



## freyar (Nov 6, 2007)

We've already got intimidate down for max ranks, but shaving some off spot and listen for appraise sounds good.


----------



## Shade (Nov 6, 2007)

OK...how's this look now?

Appraise 17, Balance 11, Bluff 23, Climb 23, Concentration 23, Diplomacy 23, Disguise 23, Gather Information 23, Intimidate 23, Jump 23, Knowledge (Religion) 23, Listen 15, Perform (dance, song, wind instruments) 23, Sense Motive 23, Spellcraft 23, Spot 15, Tumble 11


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## freyar (Nov 6, 2007)

That seems pretty good to me.  Since he has all the illusion spells as SLAs, do we want to shift some of his Disguise over to Appraise or something else?  Otherwise, I'd say it's time to work out synergies.


----------



## Shade (Nov 6, 2007)

We could do that.  He also gets the +10 to Disguise when using his change shape/alternate form (which we still need to handle).


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## dhaga (Nov 6, 2007)

Shapechange can be similar to the Manggus' ability, without the exceptions.


> Change Shape (Su): A manggus can assume the shape of any Medium, Large, or Huge creature. The creature’s hit dice cannot exceed twice the manggus’ hit dice. The new form must be a creature that the manggus has personally seen. In a different form, the manggus loses its natural attacks, but gains all extraordinary and supernatural abilities of the new form. A manggus can remain in a form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a manggus reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form. If the manggus takes fire damage from any source, it is immediately forced back into its natural form.




Stripping out the exceptions:
Change Shape (Su): Monkey can assume the shape of (any?) creature. The creature’s hit dice cannot exceed twice Monkey's hit dice. In a different form, Monkey gains all the extraordinary and supernatural abilities of that form. Monkey can remain in a form until he chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but Monkey reverts to his natural form if killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals his natural form.


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## Shade (Nov 7, 2007)

> Monkey can take many different forms, but generally restricts himself to a human appearance or his natural form. This is of a human with a monkey's face, dressed in robes finer than those of the greatest Shou mandarin. He has impeccable manners. (Although by the standards of the Celestial Court he is crude and profane.)




That could work, or we could just simplify it to the doppelganger's ability since he generally takes human form:

Change Shape (Su): A doppelganger can assume the shape of any Small or Medium humanoid. In humanoid form, the doppelganger loses its natural attacks. A doppelganger can remain in its humanoid form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, but a doppelganger reverts to its natural form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability reveals its natural form.

Skills: *When using its change shape ability, a doppelganger gets an additional +10 circumstance bonus on Disguise checks.  

Which do you all prefer?


----------



## dhaga (Nov 7, 2007)

Let's stick with the Change Shape adaption, from the doppelganger.  I think it fits Monkey's character better.


----------



## Shade (Nov 7, 2007)

Updated Homebrews.

Suggestions for feats (he gets 7)?


----------



## dhaga (Nov 7, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Suggestions for feats (he gets 7)?



Could give him some Dex-based feats - (Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack), add Alertness, and top it off with Quicken SLA.  And then add 2 more.  Improved Init for a +13 init?   Or some others to boost his SLAs.
Or Great Fortitude and Iron Will to boost his "low" saves.


----------



## freyar (Nov 8, 2007)

I'd go with Weapon Finesse probably before the Dodge-tree (or in addition).  The SLA-boosters are good, but we need to pick some "signature" SLAs to apply them to.  Unless of course we want to let him apply metamagic feats to his SLAs in the Master of Magic ability.


----------



## Mortis (Nov 8, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Suggestions for feats (he gets 7)?



Monkey Grip - sorry couldn't resist any longer   

Regards
Mortis


----------



## freyar (Nov 8, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Monkey Grip - sorry couldn't resist any longer




That's not in the SRD; we'd need to include a sidebar.


----------



## Shade (Nov 8, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> I'd go with Weapon Finesse probably before the Dodge-tree (or in addition).  The SLA-boosters are good, but we need to pick some "signature" SLAs to apply them to.  Unless of course we want to let him apply metamagic feats to his SLAs in the Master of Magic ability.




Nah, I think that ability is plenty powerful as-is.

We could figure out a few that are worth quickening, though.  He can quicken up to a 6th-level spell, and could empower up to an 8th.


----------



## Shade (Nov 12, 2007)

Okay, so how about...

Dodge, Great Fortitude, Improved Initiative, Iron Will, Mobility, Spring Attack, Weapon Finesse?

Shall we give him a magical katana, and if so, what plusses/properties?


----------



## dhaga (Nov 12, 2007)

Feats look good to me.
His katana should definitely be magical.  It could be keen, for extra nastiness.
Not sure what the base bonus should be. +3?


----------



## freyar (Nov 13, 2007)

Hmmm, no feats for the SLAs?  

Just glancing at the MIC, a 20th level NPC (just going by his HD for the moment) should have a +5 equivalent weapon, if that helps.  So probably +3 or +4 with a fun property or two.  Keen could work, or maybe there's something extra flavorful.  Have to look that up...


----------



## Mortis (Nov 13, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Keen could work, or maybe there's something extra flavorful.  Have to look that up...



Vorpal? although it is expensive.

Regards
Mortis


----------



## Shade (Nov 13, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Hmmm, no feats for the SLAs?




No one suggested any, and I couldn't think of any "must haves".  If you've got one or two, we can swap out for the save-booster feats.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Just glancing at the MIC, a 20th level NPC (just going by his HD for the moment) should have a +5 equivalent weapon, if that helps.  So probably +3 or +4 with a fun property or two.  Keen could work, or maybe there's something extra flavorful.  Have to look that up...




+3 keen merciful?   or +3 keen defending?


----------



## freyar (Nov 13, 2007)

Merciful actually sounds like something Monkey would go for.


----------



## dhaga (Nov 13, 2007)

+3 keen merciful sounds good.


----------



## Shade (Nov 13, 2007)

Updated Homebrews.

We should replace Weapon Finesse, since it can't be used with a katana.  Any suggestions?  Quicken SLA (X)?

fly 60 ft. (perfect?)

Armor Class: 30+ (+9 Dex, +x natural), touch x, flat-footed x

spell resistance CR +7

Environment: x
Challenge Rating: x
Treasure: x


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## dhaga (Nov 13, 2007)

Quicken Shadow Walk, for mystery?  Or Quicken Chain Lightning, for power?


----------



## freyar (Nov 15, 2007)

Can he actually use Shadow Walk, or is it banned because it takes you to the borders of the Plane of Shadow?  I actually think quickening Shadow Conjuration would be interesting, since he can't summon or call real things. 

Flight should be perfect, maybe CR/2 natural armor?  SR looks good.
Environment: Any
CR: epic, though he's probably supposed to be a social encounter
Treasure: triple standard?


----------



## Shade (Nov 15, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Can he actually use Shadow Walk, or is it banned because it takes you to the borders of the Plane of Shadow?  I actually think quickening Shadow Conjuration would be interesting, since he can't summon or call real things.




Interesting.


----------



## Shade (Nov 15, 2007)

Comparing to other unique outsiders, he seems about CR 21, mostly due to his vast array of spell-like abilities.

Most uniques of this CR have AC in the 40-44 range.


----------



## dhaga (Nov 15, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Can he actually use Shadow Walk, or is it banned because it takes you to the borders of the Plane of Shadow?  I actually think quickening Shadow Conjuration would be interesting, since he can't summon or call real things.




I think that's a great idea, freyar.


----------



## Shade (Nov 16, 2007)

Ac 42?


----------



## freyar (Nov 16, 2007)

AC 42 seems good, but do you think CR 21 is high enough given the number of SLAs he can use?  Or is the issue that he can only use so many in a given encounter?


----------



## Shade (Nov 16, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> AC 42 seems good, but do you think CR 21 is high enough given the number of SLAs he can use?  Or is the issue that he can only use so many in a given encounter?




Since he's only limited to one (or two if you count the quickened shadow conjuration) SLAs per round, it's not that much more deadly than the other unique outsiders opening with their best SLAs.  He doesn't have any other deadly supernatural abilities to fall back on, so it kind of balances out.

He also has less HD than the majority of CR 21 uniques.

Rather than give him large amounts of natural armor to achieve AC 42, how about this?

Intellectual Defense (Ex):  Due to his incredible knowledge of fighting styles, Monkey applies his Intelligence modifier as an additional bonus to his Armor Class.  He loses the benefits of this ability when flat-footed.


----------



## freyar (Nov 16, 2007)

All sounds reasonable then.


----------



## Mortis (Nov 17, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Intellectual Defense (Ex):  Due to his incredible knowledge of fighting styles, Monkey applies his Intelligence modifier as an additional bonus to his Armor Class.  He loses the benefits of this ability when flat-footed.



That still leaves him 14 points short of 42. Perhaps a deflection bonus based on Cha? That would give another +7. After that I suppose a +7 natural armor bonus is about right.

Regards
Mortis


----------



## freyar (Nov 17, 2007)

So we'd call it something like Holy Grace for the Cha modifier.  Sounds good.


----------



## Shade (Nov 19, 2007)

Updated Homebrews.   How are we looking now?


----------



## Mortis (Nov 19, 2007)

Looks done to me.

Good job he's a 'good guy' 

Regards
Mortis


----------



## freyar (Nov 19, 2007)

I think he looks pretty much done, too.  I'd love to put the slap down on some obnoxious PCs with him.


----------



## Shade (Nov 20, 2007)

Next!

*Sand Cat*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Desert or dry steppe
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
ORGANIZATION: Den
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Night
DIET: Carnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Animal (1)
TREASURE: Nil
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1-4
ARMOR CLASS: 8
MOVEMENT: 15
HIT DICE: 1+1
THAC0: 19
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-4/ 1-3/ 1-3
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Rear claws 1-2, surprise
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Surprise
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: S (2'-3')
MORALE: Average (8- 10)
XP VALUE: 120

The sand cat is a small desert feline that preys on many of the small mammals of the desert and dry steppe regions.  Slightly larger than a regular house cat, it is a sandy brown color. The ears are long and pointed, ending in a long, white tuft. The tip of the tail is a darker brown than the rest of the body.

Combat: Although the sand cat is a predator, its prey is not man or other humanoid creatures. It will not attack a person under normal circumstances. However, if forced to fight (cornered, etc.), it attacks savagely. The sand cat is a small and stealthy creature and so applies a -1 to all opponents' surprise rolls. At the same time, its keen senses make it very hard to surprise, giving it a + 1 on all surprise rolls.

When the cat attacks, it springs toward its target. The sand cat can leap 5 feet upward and 10 feet forward, with a running start. It strikes with both front claws. If both of these hit, the rear claws automatically rake the victim for 1-2 points damage each. Thereafter it will bat and bite as much as possible.

The sand cat seldom fights to the death, instead trying to escape any opponent stronger than it. However, a mother will not abandon her young unless it is to lure an attacker away. If the sand cat is defending its young, it gains a +1 on its THAC0 and damage rolls.

Habitat/Society: The sand cat lives in a small family group called a den. Depending on the time of year, the den will have two to seven individuals: two adults and kittens.  Sand cats mate for a single season and the male remains with the female until the young are grown, which takes about 10 months to a year.

The sand cat makes its lair in a small cave, sheltered overhang, or abandoned burrow. The latter is preferred if there is one available. The lair is normally occupied only while there are young to be raised. During this time, one adult always remains near the kittens.

Sand cats are very territorial. They hunt over a range of 5 to 10 square miles. They are nighttime predators and mostly bring down small mammals. They are seldom a threat to larger creatures.

Ecology: The sand cat is a natural force in the local ecology, keeping down the numbers of small vermin in a region.  Unfortunately, the sand cat is also valued by humans. The kittens, if taken young enough, can be trained. Among the tribes of the desert and steppe, sand
cats trained to hunt are the gifts of sheiks and khans.  These animals can run down hares and other game for their masters. Others are sold to traders, who in turn sell the little cats in the cities. Here they are raised as pets--dangerous and savage little pets. A sand cat kitten is easily worth 500 to 2,000 gold pieces.

Source:  Dragon Magazine #163 (1990) and Monstrous Compendium Forgotten Realms Appendix (Both versions are identical).


----------



## freyar (Nov 20, 2007)

Hmmm, should we start by advancing a cat to small or regressing a leopard to small?  Is there a lynx or bobcat somewhere like the ToH?


----------



## Shade (Nov 20, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> Hmmm, should we start by advancing a cat to small or regressing a leopard to small?  Is there a lynx or bobcat somewhere like the ToH?




Lynx (Small):  Str 7, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7 [Races of Faerun]
Serval (Small):  Str 12, Dex 17, Con 13, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7 [Sandstorm]

So basically, we've got our stats pretty much nailed down with the exception of Strength.


----------



## freyar (Nov 21, 2007)

Based on the THAC0 and damage, I'd go with Str 10-11, so somewhere in the middle.


----------



## Mortis (Nov 21, 2007)

10 or 11 is good for me.

+1 morale bonus (to attack and damage) when defending its young?

<edit>
wildcat (small) Str 5, Dex 17, Con 12, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 7 [Vaults of Pandius conversion)

I just remembered about the wildcat, unfortunately its got an even lower Str than the others 

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Nov 21, 2007)

Added to Homebrews.

Some things from similar cats...

Skills: Servals have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Climb, Hide, and Move Silently checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Jump and Listen checks. They use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Jump checks. *In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.

Skills: Lynxes receive a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Balance checks. They use their Dexterity modifier for Climb checks.
*In areas of tall grass or heavy undergrowth, the Hide bonus rises to +8.

Skills: Leopards have a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. Leopards have a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. A leopard can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.

So I'd say the +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks is a given, and the Jump bonus definitely seems appropriate.  Thoughts?


----------



## Shade (Nov 27, 2007)

Thoughts on the last post?


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## freyar (Nov 27, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Thoughts on the last post?




I agree with it.  No bonus on climb, though, I think.


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## Shade (Nov 27, 2007)

So, thus?

Skills: Sand cats have a +4 racial bonus on Balance, Hide, and Move Silently checks, and a +8 racial bonus on Jump and Listen checks. They use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Jump checks. *In desert environments, the Hide bonus improves to +8.


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## freyar (Nov 28, 2007)

Sounds good.


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## Shade (Nov 28, 2007)

Here's how the skills break down before we assign the 4 ranks:

Balance +7, Hide +7*, Jump +15, Listen +9, Move Silently +7

Put all 4 ranks into Spot?   Split between Hide and Move Silently?   Something else?


----------



## freyar (Nov 28, 2007)

I think it should have more in spot than just the +1 from Wis, so let's put it all into spot.  It's prey will probably all have hide and move silently bonuses, also, so it needs the spot.


----------



## Shade (Nov 28, 2007)

Agreed.   Updated Homebrews.



> Ecology: The sand cat is a natural force in the local ecology, keeping down the numbers of small vermin in a region. Unfortunately, the sand cat is also valued by humans. The kittens, if taken young enough, can be trained. Among the tribes of the desert and steppe, sand cats trained to hunt are the gifts of sheiks and khans. These animals can run down hares and other game for their masters. Others are sold to traders, who in turn sell the little cats in the cities. Here they are raised as pets--dangerous and savage little pets. A sand cat kitten is easily worth 500 to 2,000 gold pieces.




Since it is an animal, we probably don't need special training rules.   Should we just mention the kitten value?


----------



## freyar (Nov 28, 2007)

Just the kitten price, agreed.  CR1?


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## Shade (Nov 28, 2007)

Sounds good.  Updated.


----------



## freyar (Nov 28, 2007)

So these are done, I guess.


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## Shade (Dec 6, 2007)

Kamatlan 
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any tropical 
FREQUENCY: Very rare 
ORGANIZATION: Solitary 
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any 
DIET: Carnivorous 
INTELLIGENCE: Semi- (2-4) 
TREASURE: Nil 
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil 
NO. APPEARING: 1 
ARMOR CLASS: 4 
MOVEMENT: 15 
HIT DICE: 5 + 2 
THAC0: 15
NO. OF ATTACKS: 7
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3/1-3/1-8/1-4 (x4)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Poison
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: L (6'-7' long)
MORALE: Steady (11-12)
XP VALUE: 975

Kamatlan resemble large jaguars with two snakes growing from each shoulder. They are very likely related to displacer beasts.

A kamatlan's coat is generally medium yellow in hue, and is covered with dark spots. The snakes extend about three feet from its shoulders, and are sandy colored with a diamond pattern. A rattle, much like that of a rattlesnake, tips the kamatlan's tail, and rattles when the beast is frightened or otherwise agitated.

COMBAT: A kamatlan stalks its prey cautiously before attacking, though its rattle sometimes betrays its presence.  The kamatlan is a fearsome opponent, hissing, growling, and rattling during battle. When it attacks, it uses its front claws and its bite, as well as the bites of the snakes. Victims bitten by a snake must make saving throws against poison at +3 or contract an incapacitating illness which has an onset time of 1-4 turns and lasts for 2-8 days.

HABITAT/SOCIETY: Kamatlan are relatively new additions to Maztica, having appeared in various places during the Night of Wailing. Presumably, they were spawned in some manner by Zaltec.

Kamatlan prowl the uncivilized parts of Maztica, and may be found in jungle, desert, or mountains. They climb and swim superbly, and spend a great deal of time in tree tops when in a forested area. They often stalk their prey for hours before pouncing.

Kamatlan are solitary and territorial, and they come together only rarely and briefly to mate. Mating may take place at any time of year. Two months after mating, the female lays 1-4 large, leathery eggs, which she buries in a shallow hole. The eggs hatch two months later, producing half-sized young with only 2+2 Hit Dice but all the attack abilities of an adult. The young mature in about six months.

ECOLOGY: Kamatlan have little to fear from other predators, except for those much larger like dragons and giants.  Being a mixture of snake and jaguar, however, they provide excellent materials for hishna magic, and almost any part of a kamatlan's body can be put to use by a hishnashaper.  Men, therefore, hunt them whenever they are discovered.

From Maztica Campaign Setting (1991).


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## Shade (Dec 6, 2007)

Here are the similar bits from the kamadan in the Tome of Horrors revised:

Large Magical Beast
+5 natural armor
Attack: Claw +7 melee (1d6+4) or snakes +7 melee (1d4) or bite +7 melee (1d8+2)
Full Attack: 2 claws +7 melee (1d6+4) and 6 snakes +2 melee (1d4) and bite +2 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with snakes)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Abilities: Str 18, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 5, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Balance +10, Hide +3*, Listen +5, Move Silently +8, Spot +5
Feats: Alertness, Dodge
Challenge Rating: 4
Advancement: 5-9 HD (Large); 10-12 HD (Huge)

Snakes (Ex): Each snake attacks independently each round at the listed attack bonus. The snakes do not gain the kamadan’s Strength bonus to damage.

Skills: Kamadans have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Balance checks. *In areas of tall grass or undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.

The poisonous kamadan is CR 6 and uses the same statistics as the normal kamadan, but each snake head delivers a poisonous bite.

Poison (Ex): Snakes, Fortitude save DC 14; initial and secondary damage 1d6 Constitution. The save DC is Constitution-based.


----------



## freyar (Dec 7, 2007)

Well, from looking further at the Maztica campaign setting, this should just be a poisonous kamadan with 2 fewer snakes, basically.  So I think we should plunder liberally from the kamadan.  Notes: the kamatlan should have a slightly lower Int (let's peg it at 3, say?).  It also has one more HD and is slightly larger, so maybe bump Str by a couple.  (This also jives with the fact that the original has a larger bite damage than the kamadan.)

So...

Large Magical Beast
+5 natural armor
Attack: Claw +9 melee (1d6+5) or snakes +9 melee (1d4+poison) or bite +9 melee (1d8+2)
Full Attack: 2 claws +9 melee (1d6+5) and 4 snakes +4 melee (1d4+poison) and bite +4 melee (1d8+2)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. (10 ft. with snakes)
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., low-light vision, scent
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 15, Con 15, Int 3, Wis 12, Cha 9
Skills: Balance +10, Hide +4*, Listen +5, Move Silently +8, Spot +5
Feats: Alertness, Dodge
Challenge Rating: 5?
Advancement: 6-10 HD (Large); 11-15 HD (Huge)

Snakes (Ex): Each snake attacks independently each round at the listed attack bonus. The snakes do not gain the kamatlan’s Strength bonus to damage.

Skills: Kamatlans have a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks and a +8 racial bonus on Balance checks. *In areas of tall grass or undergrowth, the Hide bonus improves to +8.

Poison (Ex): Snakes, Fortitude save DC 14; initial and secondary damage 1d6 Constitution. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Not positive about the CR.  The poison adds a bit (even if there are 2 fewer snakes, 4 chances in a full attack is still pretty good), but no breath weapon.  So I'd go with 5 or maybe even 4.


----------



## Shade (Dec 7, 2007)

Added to Homebrews.



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> Kamatlan prowl the uncivilized parts of Maztica, and may be found in jungle, desert, or mountains. They climb and swim superbly, and spend a great deal of time in tree tops when in a forested area. They often stalk their prey for hours before pouncing.




Environment:  Warm forests, deserts, or mountains?

For the climb and swim bit, and the fact that they are modeled after jaguars, should we borrow the following from the leopard entry?

Climb 20 ft.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a leopard must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.

Pounce (Ex): If a leopard charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.

Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +6 melee, damage 1d3+1.

Skills: Leopards have a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. Leopards have a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. A leopard can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> Kamatlan are solitary and territorial, and they come together only rarely and briefly to mate. Mating may take place at any time of year. Two months after mating, the female lays 1-4 large, leathery eggs, which she buries in a shallow hole. The eggs hatch two months later, producing half-sized young with only 2+2 Hit Dice but all the attack abilities of an adult. The young mature in about six months.




Organization:  Solitary or pair?


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## freyar (Dec 8, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Environment:  Warm forests, deserts, or mountains?




All of the above. 


> For the climb and swim bit, and the fact that they are modeled after jaguars, should we borrow the following from the leopard entry?
> 
> Climb 20 ft.
> ...
> Skills: Leopards have a +8 racial bonus on Jump checks and a +4 racial bonus on Hide and Move Silently checks. Leopards have a +8 racial bonus on Balance and Climb checks. A leopard can always choose to take 10 on a Climb check, even if rushed or threatened.




Climb speed looks good, as does the accompanying Climb bonus.  I think I'd drop the Jump bonus, though, and add a +4 or +8 to swim (to account for the "excellent swimmer" bit).



> Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a leopard must hit with its bite attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can rake.
> 
> Pounce (Ex): If a leopard charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including two rake attacks.
> 
> Rake (Ex): Attack bonus +6 melee, damage 1d3+1.




Hmmm.  Not too sure about this, largely since the kamadan doesn't have it.  However, adding this would make the kamatlan a much more solid CR5.



> Organization:  Solitary or pair?




Sounds good.

Scott Greene, if you read this, could you tell me if my suspicion is correct -- that you made the poisonous kamadan variant as a sort-of replacement for the kamatlan?


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## Shade (Dec 10, 2007)

Weight?   A displacer beast is 2 feet longer and weighs 500 pounds.

Anyone else have opinions on the improved grab/pounce/rake?


----------



## freyar (Dec 10, 2007)

350-400 lbs, I think.

We'll wait on the rake chain, but I think I'm leaning toward it.


----------



## Shade (Dec 11, 2007)

Anyone else have thoughts on the rake chain?


----------



## Mortis (Dec 11, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Anyone else have thoughts on the rake chain?



I think that it makes sense 

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Dec 11, 2007)

Updated.

All done?


----------



## Mortis (Dec 11, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> All done?



Yup

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Dec 11, 2007)

Next!

*Dowagu*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any 
FREQUENCY: Very Rare
ORGANIZATION: Small group
ACTIVE CYCLE: Night
DIET: Strength Points
INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional (16)
TREASURE: None
ALIGNMENT: Lawful Evil
NO. APPEARING: Up to 6, but usually 1
ARMOR CLASS: 3 (torso), 0 (tail), -2 (head)
MOVEMENT: 18, Fl 36 (B)
HIT DICE: 12 (75 hp)
THAC0: 9
NO. OF ATTACKS: 5
DAMAGE/ATTACK: by weapon (x4), 1d10 (tail)
SPECIAL ATTACKS: touch, fear aura, spells
SPECIAL DEFENSES: silence, dark, hit only in light
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 20%
SIZE: H (12’ long)
MORALE: Fanatic (18)
XP VALUE: 14,000

The dowagu are the creations of the Raja Ambuchar Devayam. They have the lower bodies and tails of giant snakes, except that their tails are covered with a thick, layered hide. They have man-like torsos with four arms and huge leathery wings. Their faces are gaunt and grotesque, with long, curved horns rising from their foreheads and equally long, wicked tusks protruding from their upper jaws. The dowagu are completely black, with beady blue eyes resembling stars. Unless caught in the full light of the moon or a magical light source, they are rarely visible as more than a shadow.

Combat: Dowagu rarely fight, for they are usually working under strict orders from the Raja. When they do fight, however, they are true terrors, attacking simultaneously with four weapons (usually a scimitar, flail, axe and spear) and their powerful tail. Any being unfortunate enough to see a dowagu in full light must save vs. paralyzation or flee in fear for 1d12 rounds.

Creatures hit by the tail, or touching the dowagu with bare hands, must save vs. spells or take an Additional 1d4 points of chilling touch damage and lose a point of Strength. If the victim fails a second save, this one vs. poison, the Strength loss is permanent. In addition, on a natural to-hit roll of 20, the dowagu entwines its tail about the victim. Entwined victims suffer no additional damage, but must save as if hit by the tail each round, or suffer the consequences as outlined above.

Defensively, the dowagu are always surrounded by a 5’ sphere of silence. In addition, they can cause darkness (10’) at will. If this is done at night and there is no direct source of light on the dowagu, treat the result as if it were invisible. Finally, the dowagu can be hit only if illuminated in the full effect of a magical light source, such as a light or continual light spell. Note that such spells cause no direct damage to the dowagu; they merely allow other weapons to inflict damage. If the dowagu is not illuminated, any attack directed against it simply passes through its body as if it were a shadow. They are subject to the full effects of the prism of Kushk, however, for it simultaneously provides a magical light source and makes an attack.

Each day, a dowagu is able to cast up to four 1st level Wizard spells from the Illusion/Phantasm school as if it were a 10th-level Wizard.

Habitat/Society: The dowagu are generally solitary creatures, answering solely to their master and creator, the Raja Ambuchar Devayam. Although they prefer to dwell in desolate, arid locations, they are at home in any environment.

They can mark any creature with the Stamp of Tan Chin. One of their major duties is to wander the world searching out victims upon which to place the dark tattoo. This stamp cannot be removed, even by a wish spell, and always shows through any attempt to cover it up. (Makeup wears off, scarves or hats fall off, spells fail inexplicably, etc.) Upon dying, persons marked with the stamp become undead and march to Solon to join the Raja’s army. Usually, such victims become zombies, but especially powerful characters (9th level and above) become a more advanced form of undead, such as a vampire, wight, groaning spirit, etc. The only way to escape this fate is to avoid death or to destroy the Raja.

Ecology: The dowagu are magical constructs created by the Raja Ambuchar Devayam. There are only six of them, though the Raja will create a replacement if one is destroyed. To feed, the dowagu entwine a victim within the coils of their chilling tail and draw away his strength. They rarely stop until the victim is an empty husk.

From FRA3 Blood Charge (1990).


----------



## freyar (Dec 12, 2007)

Wow, strange.  I guess these should be constructs, though we don't have any clue about their creation.  The rest of the description really sounds like an aberration, though.


----------



## Shade (Dec 12, 2007)

I'd agree with aberration.  The Construct type doesn't have the market cornered on "magically created beings".


----------



## Mortis (Dec 13, 2007)

Now I'll be the first to admit that I don't know anything about the Raja Ambuchar Devayam, but you could argue that dowagu are a constructed undead.

Regards
Mortis


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## freyar (Dec 13, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Now I'll be the first to admit that I don't know anything about the Raja Ambuchar Devayam, but you could argue that dowagu are a constructed undead.




You could.  I wish I had more context for these monsters.  However, their description is really screaming aberration at me for some reason.  Maybe it's the snake body with fur, wings, and many arms, as well as the bizarre powers.


----------



## Shade (Dec 14, 2007)

Unfortunately, I don't have this module.  Someone else posted the stats in an earlier thread which I just copied over.   

If someone with the module would like to provide more context, it would be most appreciated.


----------



## Echohawk (Dec 19, 2007)

The context for the dowagu is that they are the the six "shadowy forms" that act as bodyguards for Ambuchar Devayam, a powerful evil necromancer (himself a "unique form of undead").

They look like this:


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## Mortis (Dec 19, 2007)

Echohawk said:
			
		

> The context for the dowagu is that they are the the six "shadowy forms" that act as bodyguards for Ambuchar Devayam, a powerful evil necromancer (himself a "unique form of undead").



Given that, and the picture, I stand by my original statement - undead 

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Dec 19, 2007)

Mortis said:
			
		

> Given that, and the picture, I stand by my original statement - undead




The evidence is clear...I'm convinced.    

So, Large undead?   I know their size says "H", but 12-foot-long puts them comfortably in the Large size range.


----------



## freyar (Dec 19, 2007)

Large undead it is!


----------



## Shade (Dec 19, 2007)

Now that that's out of the way, let's look at ability scores.

INTELLIGENCE: Exceptional (16)

As an undead, no Con score.

High Dex usually accompanies multi-weapon fighting styles.

Some of the abilities may be Cha-based.

They kind of resemble mariliths, but aren't quite as long.

Marilith stats:  Str 29, Dex 19, Con 29, Int 18, Wis 18, Cha 24

How about...

Str 25, Dex 19, Con -, Int 16, Wis 16, Cha 21?


----------



## freyar (Dec 19, 2007)

Looks reasonable.


----------



## Shade (Dec 19, 2007)

Added to Homebrews.


----------



## Shade (Dec 21, 2007)

> Unless caught in the full light of the moon or a magical light source, they are rarely visible as more than a shadow.






> In addition, they can cause darkness (10’) at will. If this is done at night and there is no direct source of light on the dowagu, treat the result as if it were invisible.




Invisible in Darkness (Ex):  In areas of shadowy illumination, a dowagu receives double the normal benefits of concealment (40% miss chance).  In areas of darkness, a dowagu is treated as if it were invisible.



> Any being unfortunate enough to see a dowagu in full light must save vs. paralyzation or flee in fear for 1d12 rounds.




Frightful presence?



> Creatures hit by the tail, or touching the dowagu with bare hands, must save vs. spells or take an Additional 1d4 points of chilling touch damage and lose a point of Strength. If the victim fails a second save, this one vs. poison, the Strength loss is permanent.




Make it 1d6 negative energy and 1 point of Strength damage like the chill touch spell?



> In addition, on a natural to-hit roll of 20, the dowagu entwines its tail about the victim. Entwined victims suffer no additional damage, but must save as if hit by the tail each round, or suffer the consequences as outlined above.




Improved grab/constrict?



> Defensively, the dowagu are always surrounded by a 5’ sphere of silence.




Aura of Silence (Su):  A dowagu is continuously surrounded by a silence effect to a 5-foot-radius.  This functions as the silence spell, but cannot be dispeled.



> Finally, the dowagu can be hit only if illuminated in the full effect of a magical light source, such as a light or continual light spell. Note that such spells cause no direct damage to the dowagu; they merely allow other weapons to inflict damage. If the dowagu is not illuminated, any attack directed against it simply passes through its body as if it were a shadow. They are subject to the full effects of the prism of Kushk, however, for it simultaneously provides a magical light source and makes an attack.




Invulnerablilty in Darkness (Ex/Su?):  In areas of darkness or shadowy illumination, a dowagu is treated as incorporeal for purposes of attacks and effects that target it.  Spells and effects with the light descriptor, as well as weapons that generate light or with the brililant energy property, affect the dowagu normally.



> Each day, a dowagu is able to cast up to four 1st level Wizard spells from the Illusion/Phantasm school as if it were a 10th-level Wizard.




Spell-Like Abilities:  A dowagu may use up to four illusion spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as spell-like abilities each day.  Caster level 10th.



> They can mark any creature with the Stamp of Tan Chin. One of their major duties is to wander the world searching out victims upon which to place the dark tattoo. This stamp cannot be removed, even by a wish spell, and always shows through any attempt to cover it up. (Makeup wears off, scarves or hats fall off, spells fail inexplicably, etc.) Upon dying, persons marked with the stamp become undead and march to Solon to join the Raja’s army. Usually, such victims become zombies, but especially powerful characters (9th level and above) become a more advanced form of undead, such as a vampire, wight, groaning spirit, etc. The only way to escape this fate is to avoid death or to destroy the Raja.




Stamp of Tan Chin (Su):  With a successful touch attack, a dowagu may place a dark tattoo upon a victim.  This mark cannot be removed through anything short of divine intervention or the destruction of the dowagu's master, the Raja Ambuchar Devayam.  Attempts to conceal the mark always fail--it is clearly visible even through armor, clothing, and makeup.   Even spells, such as shapechange or alter self, cannot conceal the mark.  The victim still gains the benefits of these spells, but the mark is always present in their current form.   Upon the marked victim's death, it becomes a zombie (or greater undead, at the DMs discretion) under the control of the Raja Ambuchar Devayam.  The new undead will immediately seek out the Raja to receive orders.


----------



## freyar (Dec 21, 2007)

You beat me to this by about a minute!



			
				Shade said:
			
		

> Invisible in Darkness (Ex):  In areas of shadowy illumination, a dowagu receives double the normal benefits of concealment (40% miss chance).  In areas of darkness, a dowagu is treated as if it were invisible.




Also, add darkness (or deeper darkness?) as an at will SLA?


> Frightful presence?



I'd say so.



> Make it 1d6 negative energy and 1 point of Strength damage like the chill touch spell?



Sounds good.  I guess a Fort save goes with that.



> Improved grab/constrict?



My thoughts exactly.  Should we restrict this to critical hits?



> Aura of Silence (Su):  A dowagu is continuously surrounded by a silence effect to a 5-foot-radius.  This functions as the silence spell, but cannot be dispeled.



Other than needing another l in dispelled, it looks good. 



> Invulnerablilty in Darkness (Ex/Su?):  In areas of darkness or shadowy illumination, a dowagu is treated as incorporeal for purposes of attacks and effects that target it.  Spells and effects with the light descriptor, as well as weapons that generate light or with the brililant energy property, affect the dowagu normally.




Make this Su, I think.  Should we specifically add that only magical light negates this?



> Spell-Like Abilities:  A dowagu may use up to four illusion spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as spell-like abilities each day.  Caster level 10th.




Do we want the dowagu to choose each day as a wizard or at time of use like a sorcerer?  If the former, should we list typical spells?  Also, we should note that these are 1st level.



> Stamp of Tan Chin (Su):  With a successful touch attack, a dowagu may place a dark tattoo upon a victim.  This mark cannot be removed through anything short of divine intervention or the destruction of the dowagu's master, the Raja Ambuchar Devayam.  Attempts to conceal the mark always fail--it is clearly visible even through armor, clothing, and makeup.   Even spells, such as shapechange or alter self, cannot conceal the mark.  The victim still gains the benefits of these spells, but the mark is always present in their current form.   Upon the marked victim's death, it becomes a zombie (or greater undead, at the DMs discretion) under the control of the Raja Ambuchar Devayam.  The new undead will immediately seek out the Raja to receive orders.




I'd make it harder for these guys to place one.  Maybe this should be a full-round action on a helpless character?


----------



## Shade (Dec 21, 2007)

freyar said:
			
		

> You beat me to this by about a minute!




Funny!



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Also, add darkness (or deeper darkness?) as an at will SLA?




I'll add deeper darkness.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Sounds good.  I guess a Fort save goes with that.




Yep.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> My thoughts exactly.  Should we restrict this to critical hits?




Nah.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Other than needing another l in dispelled, it looks good.




Touche'.    



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Make this Su, I think.  Should we specifically add that only magical light negates this?




I'd prefer to just go with light, for simplicity's sake.  Do you feel strongly otherwise?



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Do we want the dowagu to choose each day as a wizard or at time of use like a sorcerer?  If the former, should we list typical spells?  Also, we should note that these are 1st level.




Spell-Like Abilities: At will--deeper darkness. A dowagu may also use up to four 1st-level illusion spells from the sorcerer/wizard spell list as spell-like abilities each day. These spells are chosen at the time of use. Caster level 10th.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> I'd make it harder for these guys to place one.  Maybe this should be a full-round action on a helpless character?




That sounds reasonable.


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## Shade (Dec 21, 2007)

Also, updated Homebrews.


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## Shade (Dec 21, 2007)

Also, note that there are only 5 1st-level illusion spells in the SRD:

Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures. 
Disguise Self: Changes your appearance. 
Magic Aura: Alters object’s magic aura. 
Silent Image: Creates minor illusion of your design. 
Ventriloquism: Throws voice for 1 min./level. 

So maybe we can simplify it to color spray, disguise self, silent image, and ventriloquism (since magic aura is probably not of much use to them in most cases), usable in any combination up to 4/day?


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## freyar (Dec 21, 2007)

Shade said:
			
		

> Also, note that there are only 5 1st-level illusion spells in the SRD:
> 
> Color Spray: Knocks unconscious, blinds, and/or stuns weak creatures.
> Disguise Self: Changes your appearance.
> ...




Let's do that.  Also, regarding the invulnerability in darkness, I'm fine with normal light negating.


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## Shade (Dec 31, 2007)

Updated.

Natural armor bonus?

Fill in the X's...

Constrict (Ex): A dowagu deals x points of damage with a successful grapple check against a X or smaller creature. Creatures constricted by a dowagu are also exposed to its chilling touch.

Frightful Presence (Su):  A dowagu can unsettle foes with its mere presence. The ability takes effect automatically whenever the dowagu attacks, charges, or flies overhead. Creatures within a radius of X feet are subject to the effect if they have fewer HD than the dowagu. A potentially affected creature that succeeds on a DC 21 Will save remains immune to that dowagu's frightful presence for 24 hours. On a failure, creatures with 4 or less HD become panicked for X rounds and those with 5 or more HD become shaken for X rounds. Dowagu ignore the frightful presence of other dowagu.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a dowagu must hit a X or smaller opponent with a tail attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can constrict.


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## Shade (Jan 3, 2008)

Improved grab/constrict = one size category smaller?

Constrict = automatic tail slap damage?



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Frightful Presence (Ex)
> This special quality makes a creature’s very presence unsettling to foes. It takes effect automatically when the creature performs some sort of dramatic action (such as charging, attacking, or snarling). Opponents within range who witness the action may become frightened or shaken. Actions required to trigger the ability are given in the creature’s descriptive text. The range is usually 30 feet, and the duration is usually 5d6 rounds. This ability affects only opponents with fewer Hit Dice or levels than the creature has. An affected opponent can resist the effects with a successful Will save (DC 10 + ½ frightful creature’s racial HD + frightful creature’s Cha modifier; the exact DC is given in the creature’s descriptive text). An opponent that succeeds on the saving throw is immune to that same creature’s frightful presence for 24 hours.




How about 60 ft., 5d6 rounds for panicked/shaken?

+9 natural armor?


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## freyar (Jan 3, 2008)

That all sounds good to me!


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## Shade (Jan 3, 2008)

Shade said:
			
		

> NO. OF ATTACKS: 5
> DAMAGE/ATTACK: by weapon (x4), 1d10 (tail)
> When they do fight, however, they are true terrors, attacking simultaneously with four weapons (usually a scimitar, flail, axe and spear) and their powerful tail.




Full Attack: Scimitar +12/+7 melee (1d8+7/18-20) and flail +12 melee (2d6+3) and battleaxe +12 melee (2d6+3/x3) and shortspear +12 melee (1d8+3) and tail +10 melee (1d10+3 plus chilling touch)

This will require the Multiweapon Fighting and Multiattack feats and this ability from the marilith:

Feats: In combination with its natural abilities, a marilith’s Multiweapon Fighting feat allows it to attack with all its arms at no penalty.

That leaves 3 more feats.


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## Shade (Jan 4, 2008)

While updating the flavor text, I came across this:



> To feed, the dowagu entwine a victim within the coils of their chilling tail and draw away his strength. They rarely stop until the victim is an empty husk.




Should we add that a victim reduced to Strength 0 dies?


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## freyar (Jan 4, 2008)

We could, but it might make more sense to switch it to Con drain.  "Strength" in this context almost sounds more like the colloquialism rather than rules speech.


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## Shade (Jan 4, 2008)

Earlier in the text it clearly indicates Strength as the attribute, though.



> Creatures hit by the tail, or touching the dowagu with bare hands, must save vs. spells or take an Additional 1d4 points of chilling touch damage and lose a point of Strength.




There's precedence for killing via Str drain:

Strength Damage (Su): The touch of a shadow deals 1d6 points of Strength damage to a living foe. A creature reduced to Strength 0 by a shadow dies. This is a negative energy effect.


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## freyar (Jan 4, 2008)

Ooops, there we go.  Let's go with something like a shadow, then.


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## Shade (Jan 4, 2008)

Skills: 7 at 15 ranks (105 total)

Hide, Knowledge (religion), Listen, Move Silently (is this necessary with silence aura?), Search, Spot, Survial?

Feats: Multiattack, Multiweapon Fighting, 3 more

Improved Initiative?  Track?  Weapon Focus (tail)?

Challenge Rating: 11?  (It's about on par with a devourer)

Treasure: None (except weapons)?

Advancement: 12-36 HD (Large)?

A dowagu is 12 feet long and weighs x pounds.  (A marilith is 20 feet from long and weighs about 4,000 pounds).

A dowagu speaks Common, Infernal, and Undercommon?


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## freyar (Jan 4, 2008)

Let's drop Move Silently.  Maybe put in something like UMD or Knowledge (history) or (local).  Survival seems reasonable since we don't know what they do on their missions.

Your suggested three feats look ok.

I think the rest also look good, and let's just scale the weight to get 2400 lb.


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## Shade (Jan 4, 2008)

How about Concentration?   It relies on numerous spell-like abilities, and lacks a Con score, so it will need it.

Updated.  Are we missing anything?


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## freyar (Jan 4, 2008)

Concentration is better yet.  I think it's done.


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## Shade (Jan 28, 2008)

Since we're dealing with centaurs...

*Centaur, Nomadic*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Plains or steppe
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Tribal
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Day
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Average to very (8-12)
TREASURE: Q (I, V)
ALIGNMENT:Neutral or Lawful Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 2-20
ARMOR CLASS: 5 (3)
MOVEMENT: 2 4
HIT DICE: 6
THAC0: 15
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ ATTACK: 1-6/ 1-6 and weapon
SPECIAL ATTACKS: +1 with bow
SPECIAL DEFENSES:  Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: L (8'-9' tall)
MORALE: Elite (13-14)
XP VALUE: 420

The nomadic centaur is a hardier relation of the more commonly known sylvan centaur.  Found in the wide open spaces of plains and steppe, the nomadic centaur is less outgoing and social, preferring to deal with its own kind.  Living a harsher life than its woodland cousin, the nomadic centaur has developed a sterner outlook on life.

The nomadic variety shares those features characteristic of the race: humanoid torso, head, and arms. They are readily identified, however, by their shaggy coats. Their bodies, torso included, are covered with a thick layer of hair. This serves to protect them from the elements, particularly during the cold winters. The males have long, thin beards and mustaches, a sign of coming of age.  Males and females alike let their head hair grow in long
braids. A few males shave their heads in the fashion of the human tribes around them. Hair color is most often dirty gray or chestnut.

The nomadic centaurs speak their own tribal tongue, although most tribes in a large region speak a dialect of the same tongue. Very few know any other language.  Common is the most frequent second language.

Combat: Except when sleeping, these centaurs are always armed. The weapons may be slung over the back while doing other tasks, but to travel without one's weapons is inconceivable to the nomads.  

Traditionally, nomadic centaurs use a shortbow (with quivers of 100 arrows), light lance, and saber. Some (no more than 15 percent) use small shields. They are masters of the bow, trained to shoot from childhood. They gain a +1 on their THAC0 when using a bow. They can
move their normal movement and shoot an arrow at the same time, without any penalty.

The bow plays an important role in the centaur style of combat. They try to avoid straight-up fights whenever possible, since this deprives them of their two biggest advantages--speed and range. Instead they will keep a distance from the enemy, firing arrows and then galloping out of the way when the enemy charges. Among their own, they say that a warrior who fights with a sword is either a hero, an incompetent, or a fool.

Their second preferred tactic is the charge. This is usually made as soon as the enemy is discovered, before their foe has gathered his wits. They rush forward with loud howls and yells. If the enemy breaks, the centaurs ride them down. If he wavers or looks weak, they crash into his ranks with their charge. If the foe looks strong, they wheel off and take up harassing fire from a distance.  

Although they can use their hooves to kick, the nomadic centaur warriors disdain this tactic. Such methods are used only by old females and the sick.

Nomadic centaurs find no shame in flight or retreat if the battle is going badly. They scorn the cowardice of warriors who flee before the battle, but falling back or retreating to lure the enemy into a trap are honorable tactics.

Habitat/Society: Nomadic centaurs are aloof, proud creatures. They are very tribal, each centaur belonging to a particular clan of a particular tribe. A clan averages 11 to 30 (1d20 + 10) individuals. A tribe is made up of 2 to 12 clans. Each clan travels and hunts as a separate group. Sometimes two or more clans will band together to make a raid or defend against raiders, but such unions last only as long as there is a need.

The tribe exists more in name than practice. It represents a group of related clans and is important for determining the bloodline of a centaur. In daily life, the centaurs almost never do anything as a united tribe.  There are two rare exceptions to this. One is when they
gather to mourn the death of a Learned One. The other is to avenge the destruction of a clan.

The ratio of females to males is two to one. Only males go on raids or hunt, yet females are equally skilled in combat and will fight to defend the clan. The young (1-2 hit dice) are fiercely protected but will fight with hooves and bows if necessary (1-3 points of damage, no bonus to THAC0 when using the bow). There are 3 to 18 young per clan, but never more than 50% of the total clan. In addition, each clan keeps a small herd of horses.

Tribes and clans are central to the centaurs. Indeed, the clan and tribal names are used as surnames, placed before the given name. For example, Ulanchab e'Beshbalig e'Yasagh literally translates as "Ulan tribe is Besh clan is Yasagh" or "Yasagh of the clan of Besh of the tribe of Ulan."  Such names and titles are important to the centaurs.  Only older family members, children, and the closest friends use shorter nicknames.

Unlike their sylvan cousins, nomadic centaurs are formal in their relationships and behavior. Great importance is attached to keeping the traditional customs and etiquette. The rules of conduct are much different, however, from those of men. To civilized visitors, the nomadic
centaurs seem crude and barbaric. They abhor bathing, and they are not picky about the foods they eat. They will spit in the middle of a conversation. They have no regard for the personal property of visitors who must either patiently defend their property at all times or resign themselves to having their goods prodded, examined, and possibly taken. The centaurs have no shame about demanding gifts of noncentaur visitors.

Furthermore, life on the steppe has made them indifferent to the hardships and suffering of others. In battle they seldom take prisoners, executing the injured instead.  Crimes of theft, adultery, and murder are swiftly punished by cruel deaths. Although the sick and infirm
are never abandoned, the best food and treatment are always given to the strong. Fit warriors are more important than weak, old men.

These customs disguise the intricate formality of their lives. Every member of the clan has an understood position in the clan. Each position has its own customs and allowances. For example, the head of the clan is always treated with respect. However, those older than he are allowed to address him by his nickname. The clan head divides all kills, first claiming a portion for himself, then the hunter who made the kill, and then the other members of the clan, according to their status. Should the clan head divide the kill in a different order, it can be seen as either a great honor or a serious insult.

Although they make some allowances for the ignorance of strangers, the centaurs expect all visitors to adhere to their customs. Centaurs of other clans are usually honored guests. Noncentaurs are considered at the bottom of the social ladder. All centaurs have precedence
over them.

Unlike their sylvan cousins, the nomadic centaurs do not defend a particular territory. They are nomads and as such do not recognize the ownership of territory. The land belongs to everyone. However, each clan has a hunting range with a radius of 10 to 20 miles from its camp.  Wherever the clan is, that is where its territory is. Interlopers into this range are carefully watched strangers are left undisturbed, as long as they do not drive away the game or threaten the clan. If they are clearly more powerful than the clan, the centaurs will simply move to a new area. If they are weaker but are foolishly threatening, the centaurs will attack to wipe them out.

The clans live a simple lifestyle. Since there is little shelter on the steppe, the clans build settlements of leantos for protection. These are simple wooden frames with leather roof and sides, providing relief from intense heat, rain, and snow. They eat mostly meat, while children are given mare's milk. Most of their other possessions are similar to those used by human nomads.  

In their relations with other races, the centaurs are very elitist. They do not consider any other race to be their equal, and they see little reason to form alliances or trade agreements with outsiders. This attitude has slowed their cultural advancement, since human merchants
are reluctant to deal with them. Indeed, most of the goods used by the centaurs are taken in on raids.

Treasures taken by the clan are communally held. They recognize and understand the value of magical items.  Those they can use, particularly weapons, are distributed among the warriors.

Ecology: Although the centaurs have no particular love of nature, they have learned how to manage it. Wells are carefully maintained, and little water is wasted. Before an area is over-hunted, centaurs will move their hunting ground. They do not hunt for sport, and little of their kills go to waste. They make few demands on the land, thus ensuring there will be adequate resources for the future. 

Learned Ones

The title Learned One is a great honor bestowed by the nomadic centaurs on one who has performed great deeds and shown exceptional skill and wisdom. Learned Ones often rise to become great leaders, advisors, or heroes of the race.

The title of Learned One cannot be claimed, but can only be earned. There is no set method by which a person is named Learned One. However, most were tutored by a previous centaur with the title. At some point in his lifetime, the It shows the recipient centaur (male or female) will be naturally recognized as a Learned One.

Two other customs make the title of Learned One unique. First is that the recipient is no longer considered to be a member of a particular clan and tribe. He is above such petty rivalries and is welcome as an honored guest in all the clans. Normally the Learned One keeps close ties to his family clan, but some abandon their clan and live by wandering from tribe to tribe. Clans visited by a Learned One have received a great honor.

The other custom is even more far-reaching. While most Learned Ones are centaurs, there is no prohibition against members of other races. Thus, in centaur history, there have been human, elven, spirit folk, hengeyokai, and even a few dwarven and halfling Learned Ones. For
an outside race to qualify for the title, their skills and services to the centaurs must be considerable, but once so named, the person is treated with every bit of respect and honor that the title is due.

It is possible for player characters to be named as Learned Ones, although this is far from easy. To qualify for the honor, the character must patiently develop friendships among the centaurs (no easy thing). Furthermore, he must have performed one or several important
services for the race. These actions must be of truly heroic proportions and, ideally, against impossible odds.

Learned Ones bear no sign or seal of their title. It is just known to the centaurs as the fame of the person spreads throughout their lands. Of course the titled one must maintain his reputation if he hopes to keep the respect of the centaurs. Should he abuse his position, he will find himself stripped of the honor he has earned.

Originally appeared in The Horde Campaign Setting (1990).


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## freyar (Jan 28, 2008)

Lots of flavor on this, not quite as much crunch.  Should we start with the usual centaur and up Con a little (maybe Str too)?


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## Shade (Jan 29, 2008)

Compared to 2e standard centaur stats, here's all that differs...

Centaur, Nomadic
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Plains or steppe
INTELLIGENCE: Average to very (8-12)
TREASURE: Q (I, V)
ALIGNMENT:Neutral or Lawful Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 2-20
ARMOR CLASS: 5 (3)
MOVEMENT: 24
HIT DICE: 6
THAC0: 15
SPECIAL ATTACKS: +1 with bow

Centaur
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate forest 
INTELLIGENCE: Low to average (5-10) 
TREASURE: M, Q (D, I, T) 
ALIGNMENT: Neutral or chaotic good 
NO. APPEARING: 1-8 
ARMOR CLASS: 5 (4) 
MOVEMENT: 18 
HIT DICE: 4 
THAC0: 17 
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil 

So basically they are smarter, faster, have a few more HD, a better THAC0, 1 better natural armor, and the bonus with the bow.

So how about we apply the following to normal centaur stats:
6 HD
+2 Int  (I'm not sure about Str, as the greater THAC0 could simply be due to more HD)
Base land speed 60
Weapon Proficiency: Nomadic centaurs are automatically proficient with the longbow, composite longbow, shortbow, and composite shortbow.


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## freyar (Jan 29, 2008)

That all make sense to me.  Do we want to give them a special ability that they treat all bows as masterwork (to get the +1 to attack)?


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## Shade (Jan 29, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> That all make sense to me.  Do we want to give them a special ability that they treat all bows as masterwork (to get the +1 to attack)?




Nah.  They essentially had the same bonus as elves, so I translated that the 3.5 bonus elves get with bows (free proficiency).


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## freyar (Jan 29, 2008)

Ok, sounds about right, then.  Anything much else to do with these?


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## Shade (Jan 29, 2008)

Added to Homebrews.



> The nomadic centaurs speak their own tribal tongue, although most tribes in a large region speak a dialect of the same tongue. Very few know any other language.  Common is the most frequent second language.




Centaurs have... Automatic Languages: Sylvan, Elven. Bonus Languages: Common, Gnome, Halfling. 

Do we want to give them a unique language?



> Traditionally, nomadic centaurs use a shortbow (with quivers of 100 arrows), light lance, and saber. Some (no more than 15 percent) use small shields. They are masters of the bow, trained to shoot from childhood. They gain a +1 on their THAC0 when using a bow.




Composite shortbow, lance, and longsword on attack lines?



> They can move their normal movement and shoot an arrow at the same time, without any penalty.




Shot on the Run as a bonus feat?



> The bow plays an important role in the centaur style of combat. They try to avoid straight-up fights whenever possible, since this deprives them of their two biggest advantages--speed and range. Instead they will keep a distance from the enemy, firing arrows and then galloping out of the way when the enemy charges. Among their own, they say that a warrior who fights with a sword is either a hero, an incompetent, or a fool.




Replace centaur's Dodge and Weapon Focus (hoof) with Point Blank Shot and Precise Shot?



> Although they can use their hooves to kick, the nomadic centaur warriors disdain this tactic. Such methods are used only by old females and the sick.




Drop hooves from attack lines?



> Habitat/Society: Nomadic centaurs are aloof, proud creatures. They are very tribal, each centaur belonging to a particular clan of a particular tribe. A clan averages 11 to 30 (1d20 + 10) individuals. A tribe is made up of 2 to 12 clans. Each clan travels and hunts as a separate group. Sometimes two or more clans will band together to make a raid or defend against raiders, but such unions last only as long as there is a need.






> The ratio of females to males is two to one. Only males go on raids or hunt, yet females are equally skilled in combat and will fight to defend the clan. The young (1-2 hit dice) are fiercely protected but will fight with hooves and bows if necessary (1-3 points of damage, no bonus to THAC0 when using the bow). There are 3 to 18 young per clan, but never more than 50% of the total clan. In addition, each clan keeps a small herd of horses.




Centaur's org line:  Solitary, company (5–8), troop (8–18 plus 1 leader of 2nd–5th level), or tribe (20–150 plus 30% noncombatants plus 10 3rd-level sergeants, 5 5th-level lieutenants, and 1 leader of 5th–9th level)

So maybe...

Solitary, hunting party (5–8), clan (11–30 plus 30% noncombatants plus 1 leader of 2nd–5th level), or tribe (20–360 plus 30% noncombatants plus 10 3rd-level sergeants, 5 5th-level lieutenants, and 1 leader of 5th–9th level)



> Treasures taken by the clan are communally held. They recognize and understand the value of magical items.  Those they can use, particularly weapons, are distributed among the warriors.




Treasure:  No coins; no goods; standard items (see text for communal treasure)?



> Although the centaurs have no particular love of nature, they have learned how to manage it. Wells are carefully maintained, and little water is wasted. Before an area is over-hunted, centaurs will move their hunting ground. They do not hunt for sport, and little of their kills go to waste. They make few demands on the land, thus ensuring there will be adequate resources for the future.




Racial bonus on Survival checks?


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## freyar (Jan 30, 2008)

Whew, you've been busy today!  Don't need a unique language.  I agree with the rest, except maybe we should leave hooves for the elderly and sick (or desparate)?  +4 on the Survival bonus?


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## Shroomy (Jan 30, 2008)

I would leave the hooves in, but make the damage less than what you would expect from a creature of their size (1d4?) to make the option somewhat suboptimal compared to their weapony.

I don't think they need a unique language either.


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## Shade (Jan 30, 2008)

I had alot of free time yesterday since most of my co-workers bailed on me due to inclement weather.  

I left the hooves in and reduced them to 1d4 damage.

Updated.


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## freyar (Jan 30, 2008)

Looking pretty good.  You need to copy the favored class down into the racial description, though.

We need just CR (4?), LA (go, go Savage Species guidelines!), and languages.  For languages, let's take a look at what we did for the zebranaur, since these live in steppes, sort of like plains.


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## Shade (Jan 30, 2008)

CR 4 sounds about right.

here's what we gave zebranaurs:
Automatic Languages: Common, Halfling. Bonus Languages: Elven, Gnome, Sylvan.

Do we want to stick with favored class ranger?


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## freyar (Jan 30, 2008)

Maybe shift halfling to a bonus language?  I just can't think of anything besides common that would be a good automatic language, unless we look up something FR specific.

I think ranger makes sense as a favored class.


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## Shade (Jan 30, 2008)

Common as sole auto language is fine.  I'm thinking we should drop gnome and add gnoll, considering their environment.


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## freyar (Jan 30, 2008)

Gnoll for gnome is probably fair.  Maybe even orc or goblin for halfling, also.


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## Shade (Jan 31, 2008)

Let's keep halfling, since they have similar terrain. I added your suggestions, and dropped Elven as well.

Skills:  18 (+4 racial on Survival)

Hide 6, Listen 3, Move Silently 3, Spot 3, Survival 4?


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## freyar (Jan 31, 2008)

That sounds about right for the skills.  Are these done, then?


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## Shade (Jan 31, 2008)

I think so.


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## Shade (Feb 7, 2008)

*Manni * 
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Temperate forest and steppe
FREQUENCY: Rare
ORGANIZATION: Flock
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Dusk
DIET: Scavenger
INTELLIGENCE: Low (5-7)
TREASURE: P (Y x2, W)
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic evil
NO. APPEARING: 1-6
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVEMENT: 9, FL 18
HIT DICE: 3
THAC0: 17
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-6 and by weapon
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: M (4’-5’)
MORALE: Unsteady (5-7)
XP VALUE: 65

The manni, also known as kara or “black ones,” are a pestiferous and evil race that haunt the bleak and wasted corners of the steppe. They are fond of decay and death and are often found near grave mounds and in ruins. 

The manni looks like a humanoid, long-beaked crow or raven. It stands on two bandy bird legs. The body is completely covered by black feathers, hence its nickname. It has long wings instead of arms. The feathers hide three long fingers that allow the manni to grasp and use items.  It does not speak any human tongue, but communicates in a series of clacks and whistles.

Combat: The manni is a furtive and cowardly creature, preferring to avoid combat when possible. However, since it must eat and it cannot always rely on the kills of others, the manni is sometimes forced to fight. When it must make a kill, the manni prefers to attack from ambush at times when it is certain to win uninjured. To this end, it will build snares along game trails, lurk on the edges of encampments, and attack with an entire flock,
overwhelming by sheer numbers.

In combat, the manni fights with its sharp beak and a weapon. Most often this is a spear, the easiest item for the manni to use with its awkward wings. In some cases a club is favored. Swords are not used by the bird men, as these are too difficult for the creatures to manage. 

In addition to its beak and weapons, the manni can also use its wings to buffet an opponent. Generally, this is a tactic of last resort, since it requires the creature to get very close to the enemy and places it at risk of being grappled. Buffeting causes little damage, only 1-2 points, but can disorient and confuse an opponent long enough for the manni to fly away. Creatures buffeted must make a saving throw vs. spells or be stunned for one round.

Habitat/Society: The manni are a fairly loathsome and disgusting race of creatures. Not noble, brave, or trustworthy, they live as scavengers on the steppe.

The manni form together in flocks of 10-30 individuals.  Of these no more than one-fourth are males. The remainder are females and young. In combat there is no difference between the males and females, and the young are too helpless to fight. Any hatchling old enough to bear weapons is treated as an adult.

The flock lives in a poor imitation of a village. It is usually located in a sheltered stand of woods or hollow. Here the manni make their nests, simple domed huts of woven grass and branches. These are carefully camouflaged with branches, moss, grass, and dead leaves. The huts are not particularly weatherproof, but they do provide some protection from the elements.

As scavengers, manni are far from the cleanest of creatures. Their villages are rank with decay and pollution. In times of famine, the manni dig up burial mounds, tear apart wind burials, and have even been known to eat their own dead.

The manni have no liking for humans. They fear the “wingless ones,” and because they fear, they hate the humans.  The humans care no more for the manni, either, and nomads usually attempt to kill them on sight.  

The manni speak their own tongue and no other. Although they can learn to understand human languages, it is impossible for their beaks to speak human words.

Ecology: As scavengers, the manni fill a clear-cut niche in the ecology of the plains. Their own weaknesses, cruelties, and cowardice keep them from dominant roles in the land and so they have been surpassed by others.

Manni feathers are used for decorations by some of the nomadic tribes. Merchants have also been known to buy the feathers for sale in exotic markets.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #163 (1990).


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## Shade (Feb 8, 2008)

Monstrous humanoid?


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2008)

Shade said:
			
		

> Monstrous humanoid?



 Guess so.  These sound kind of like primitive kenku or something.


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## Shade (Feb 12, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> Guess so.  These sound kind of like primitive kenku or something.




True, and kenku are just plain ol' humanoids, so maybe we should drop the "monstrous"?


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2008)

Yeah, why not?  I don't think the boost to BAB and Will saves sounds particularly necessary, and there's nothing to suggest darkvision in the original.  

So, we have Int 5-7.  I'd guess the AC is all Dex, so Dex 16-17.  I'd put Wis and Str average and Cha around 5-7 again.


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## Shade (Feb 12, 2008)

Kenku has +2 Dexterity, -2 Strength, so you're suggestions seem reasonable.

Str 10, Dex 17, Con 11, Int 6, Wis 11, Cha 7?


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2008)

Looks good.  Attacks should just be beak +X (1d6) and maybe dagger for the weapon.  I think we have only one special ability to deal with:

Wing Buffet (Ex): As a standard action, a flying manni can buffet an opponent within melee reach with its wings.  This does 1d2 hp of damage.  In addition, the opponent must make a DC X Fortitude save or be dazed for one round.  The save DC is Strength-based.

I went with dazed rather than stunned because it seems like this is intended as a kind of weak ability.


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## Shade (Feb 12, 2008)

Nice job.  

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (Feb 13, 2008)

Next,

Skills: Listen +2, Spot +2, Hide +2
Feats: Ability Focus (wing buffet)?, Stealthy

Average maneuverability?


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## Shade (Feb 13, 2008)

All that sounds good.

Updated.


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## Shade (Feb 15, 2008)

Challenge Rating: 2?

Treasure: P (Y x2, W)
P:
1-6 1,000s of silver pieces: 30% 
1-2 1,000s of electrum pieces: 25% 

W:
5-30 1,000s of gold pieces: 60%
1-8 100s of platinum pieces: 15%
10-80 gems: 60%
5-40 jewelry: 50%
Maps or Magic Items: 1 map: 55%

Y:
2-12 1,000s of gold pieces: 70%

Standard coins; standard goods; no items?

Level Adjustment: +2 (Flight +1, unbalanced ability scores +1)

A manni stands 4 to 5 feet tall with a wingspan of x feet. A manni weighs from x to x pounds.

(A 5-foot kenku weighs 75 pounds)


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## GrayLinnorm (Feb 15, 2008)

In second edition (and this is a 2e creature), treasure type W could have any 2 magic items.  I'd just go with Standard for treasure.


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## Shade (Feb 15, 2008)

GrayLinnorm said:
			
		

> In second edition (and this is a 2e creature), treasure type W could have any 2 magic items.  I'd just go with Standard for treasure.




Good catch!


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## Shade (Feb 18, 2008)

Updated.

All done?


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## freyar (Feb 18, 2008)

Looks good!  We're definitely knocking these out!


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## Shade (Feb 19, 2008)

*Ahuizotl (Maztican)*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Tropical and subtropical waters
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Carnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Average (8-10)
TREASURE: I, Ux10
ALIGNMENT: Chaotic Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 1 (2-5)
ARMOR CLASS: 1
MOVEMENT: 9, Sw 12
HIT DICE: 10-12
THAC0: 10 Hit Dice: 11
11-12 Hit Dice: 9
NO. OF ATTACKS: 4
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-6/1-6/3-18/2-20
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Breath weapon, rear claws for 2-5 (1d4 + 1) each
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISTANCE: Nil
SIZE: H (18' long + 9' tail)
MORALE: Steady (12)
XP VALUE: 10 HD: 9,000
11 HD: 10,000
12 HD: 11,000

Ahuitzotls are dangerous water beasts found in Maztica.  They look something like alligators with long, feather-like blue-green scales. Their bodies are perched over comparatively long legs, rather than slung between them like an alligators.  They have sharp teeth and long claws, and can breathe both water and air.

Combat: When attacked or when hunting, an ahuitzotl rushes into melee combat using its claws and teeth. It may also slap with its long tail for 2d10 damage. When fighting underwater, if an ahuitzotl hits with both front claws, it may follow up that attack with its rear claws for 1d4 +1 damage each. In addition, the ahuitzotl has a much-feared breath weapon which it may use three times per day.

If in danger (or simply on a rampage), an ahuitzotl will forego other attacks to spit a stream of water 15' long and 5' wide. It does 1d6 damage to anyone it hits. The water stream then becomes animate, with most of the abilities of a water weird (Monstrous Compendium Volume 2). The weird has 3 + 3 Hit Dice, AC 4, movement 12, and hit points equal to 1/3 of the ahuitzotl's (round up). It attacks as a 6-Hit Die monster (THAC0 15), and victims may be pulled into the water to drown (save vs. paralyzation each round or die). It attacks once per round and may affect only one victim at a time. It is directed mentally by the ahuitzotl.
This animated breath weapon can be slain by a purify water spell. Cold-based attacks slow the water weird, and fire-based attacks do half or no damage, depending on the creature's saving throw (made at the ahuitzotl's level). Although it takes only 1 point of damage from sharp weapons, the weird will not re-form if reduced to 0 hit points-in such an event, it becomes a large puddle of ordinary water. Slayers earn 420 xp for killing the breathweird.
These weirds may not usurp control of water elementals.  They stay animate for only 5d4 rounds, even if the ahuitzotl is slain before this time expires.  If the battle is going badly, the ahuitzotl may seek to escape while the weirds cover its retreat. 

Habitat/Society: Ahuitzotls are able to breathe air but greatly prefer staying in water. They may make lairs in any body of water, although they prefer fresh water and will most often be found in a cetay (a water-filled sinkhole). An ahuitzotl that lives in a cetay will often menace local natives until they appease him by dumping treasure, art objects, and food (preferably living animals) into the cetay. If an ahuitzotl must raid natives several times before they get the message, it may acquire a taste for human flesh, demanding that as well. Fortunately, ahuitzotls seem to be dying out, and they demand regular sacrifice in only a few places.

Although normally solitary, a male and a female come together briefly to mate and raise young. The female lays 1d4 eggs about 2 weeks after mating, and they hatch in about 12 weeks. The parents jealously guard the eggs and young, often trying to build a small hoard for them. Predators, and parents irritated past endurance, usually account for the fact that rarely do more than one or two offspring reach maturity.

Newly hatched young have five hit dice and attack for 1d3/1d3/ 3d3/1d10. They achieve full growth in one year.

Ahuitzotl mates seldom stay together after their offspring reach the end of their first year. They tend to argue and fight terrible battles with one another.  

Ecology: Ahuitzotls are one of the most feared aquatic predators, and they have few natural enemies. Alligators and crocodiles, which often compete for the same territory, are seldom a match for an ahuitzotl's intelligence and strength.

Ahuitzotl treasure should be converted to Maztican values.  When coins are indicated using the above treasure types, substitute coral buds.

Ahuitzotl scales may be fashioned into decorative armor that protects as scale mail.

Originally appeared in Fires of Zatal (1991).


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## Shade (Feb 19, 2008)

Note that the picture makes them appear bipedal.

Magical beast?


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## freyar (Feb 20, 2008)

These have a weird breath weapon, if you'll pardon my saying so. 

Magical beast (aquatic) with amphibious SQ, I guess.  Int is 8-10; do you want to go for 8?  There doesn't seem to be any indication of anything other stat, but I'd think these should have pretty good physical stats.  I guess they should be strong, based on this:


> Alligators and crocodiles, which often compete for the same territory, are seldom a match for an ahuitzotl's intelligence and strength.




Maybe get physical stats by advancing a croc to Huge?


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## Shade (Feb 20, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> These have a weird breath weapon, if you'll pardon my saying so.




I think you'll need a higher authority to pardon that.    



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Maybe get physical stats by advancing a croc to Huge?




Or just use the already Huge giant crocodile?    

Giant Crocodile Abilities: Str 27, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 1, Wis 12, Cha 2


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## freyar (Feb 20, 2008)

Ah, perfect.  Should we increase the strength even more based on the "seldom a match for an ahuitzotl's intelligence and strength" quote or just assume that meant normal-sized crocs?  For mental stats, what about Int 9, Wis 12, Cha 8?


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## Shade (Feb 26, 2008)

I think we can assume "normal size crocs" and those mental stats look good, although I'd increase Cha to 10.


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## freyar (Feb 26, 2008)

Looks like claws are 1d6+Str (make them secondary?) and bite is 3d6.  Maybe including Str+1/2 on the bite, we should make it 2d6 + 1-1/2 Str.  What do you think?  Tail slap still 2d10 or 2d6+Str?



> When attacked or when hunting, an ahuitzotl rushes into melee combat using its claws and teeth. It may also slap with its long tail for 2d10 damage. When fighting underwater, if an ahuitzotl hits with both front claws, it may follow up that attack with its rear claws for 1d4 +1 damage each.




Based on this, it should have rake 1d4+1/2 Str, but only when in the water?


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## Shade (Feb 26, 2008)

Giant crocodile is Bite +11 melee (2d8+12) or tail slap +11 melee (1d12+12).

So maybe...

Bite +16 melee (3d6+12) and 2 claws +11 melee (1d6+8) or tail slap +16 melee (1d12+12)?

I agree with the aquatic rake.

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (Feb 27, 2008)

Sounds good.  I guess we need to tackle the breath weapon next, but I'm afraid I'm too wiped to think about that till the morning.


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## Shade (Feb 28, 2008)

I definitely want to use the name "breathweird"...pure awesome.

I'm thinking we should stat it up within the breath entry, and not rely on the 3e conversions of the water weird (or lesser water weird from Dragon).


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## freyar (Feb 29, 2008)

I'd agree.  Let's make the breathweird a 3HD elemental (water) with Con 12-13.  Maybe take abilities from the small water elemental, but advance to 3HD.  Small or Medium?

Breath Weapon (Su): Three times per day, an ahuitzotl may breath a 15 foot line of water as a standard action.  This deals 1d6 hp of bludgeoning damage to any creature it hits (DC X Ref save halves the damage).  The water then immediately becomes a breathweird, which remains for 5d4 rounds, even if the ahuitzotl is slain or leaves the area.


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## Shade (Mar 3, 2008)

Combining the ideas above with some abilities of the similar aballin...

Breath Weapon (Su): Three times per day, an ahuitzotl may breath a 15-foot line of water as a standard action. This deals 1d6 points of bludgeoning damage (DC X Ref half). The water then immediately becomes a breathweird, which remains for 5d4 rounds, even if the ahuitzotl is slain or leaves the area.  An ahuitzotl may have more than one breathweird present at a time.  Advanced ahuitzotls have more powerful breathweirds (breathweird Hit Dice equal to 1/3 ahuitzotl's Hit Dice).

Breathweird
Small Elemental (Water)
Hit Dice: 3d8+3 (16 hp)
Speed:  30 ft. (6 squares), swim 90 ft.
AC:  17 (+1 size, +6 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 17
BAB/Grapple: +2/+0
Full Attack: Slam +5 melee (1d6+3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks:  Drown
Special Qualities: Darkvision 60 ft., elemental traits, resistance to fire X, vulnerability to cold and water effects
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will +1
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 10, Con 13, Int 4, Wis 11, Cha 11
Skills: Listen +3, Spot +3, Swim +10
Feats: Power Attack, 1 more

Drown (Ex): To use this ability, a breathweird must hit an opponent of Medium size or smaller with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and draws the victim into its fluid body. The victim is at risk of drowning (see Water Dangers in the DMG for the risks and effects of drowning).  A trapped victim can attack the breathweird or make additional grapple checks to escape its grasp. The character cannot cast spells with a verbal component or use any other item or ability that requires speech. If other characters use slashing or piercing weapons to attack the breathweird while it is holding a victim, those attacks have a 25% chance of hitting the trapped character, and they do no harm to the aballin.  While holding a victim, the breathweird continues to attack with its pseudopods, dealing slam damage to other characters.

Vulnerability to Cold and Water Effects (Ex): A transmute water to dust spell forces a breathweird to make a Fortitude save or perish. A lower water spell forces a breathweird to release a trapped character if it fails a Fortitude save.  An attack that deals cold damage slows a breathweird (as the slow spell) for 3 rounds, with no saving throw.

Skills: Breathweirds have a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard and can always take 10 on Swim checks, even if distracted or endangered.


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## freyar (Mar 3, 2008)

Looks like a good start.  Resistance to fire 5?  I think we should also add DR 5/bludgeoning.  You also have an "aballin" in the 2nd to last line of the Drown ability.


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2008)

Yes to all that.


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## freyar (Mar 4, 2008)

In the breathweird vulnerability entry, we should also change "transmute water to dust" to purify water -- there is no transmute water to dust in the SRD (that I can find), and purify is listed in the original, also.  

For the other feat, is there something we could add to improve its grapple?  Otherwise, maybe Combat Reflexes to give it more chances?


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> In the breathweird vulnerability entry, we should also change "transmute water to dust" to purify water -- there is no transmute water to dust in the SRD (that I can find), and purify is listed in the original, also.




Hmmm...oddly, nor is purify water!  Only purify food and drink, and I don't think a 0-level spell should have a shot at killing it.    



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> For the other feat, is there something we could add to improve its grapple?  Otherwise, maybe Combat Reflexes to give it more chances?




Improved Grapple, but it requires Improved Unarmed Strike as a prereq.  Maybe just a racial bonus?

Combat Reflexes probably won't help, since it doesn't have exceptional reach.


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## freyar (Mar 4, 2008)

That's why I couldn't find Improved Grapple, it was hiding under Improved Unarmed Strike!  I like the racial bonus, though.

I was thinking Combat Reflexes just to get in as many AoOs as possible, even with normal reach.  

Let's get rid of a spell that kills the breathweird, then.  Edit: Lower water should become control water.


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## Shade (Mar 4, 2008)

Updated.


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## freyar (Mar 5, 2008)

I think the breathweird looks good.

Back to the ahuizotl: I could see a case made for Appraise, Survival, and Swim as skills based on the flavor text.  Do we want to split the ranks or just max out Swim?


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## Shade (Mar 5, 2008)

I think they should also have Listen and Spot (like crocodiles).

How about Appraise 4, Listen 3, Spot 3, Survival 3, and allow the swim speed bonus and Str bonus to take care of Swim (+16 total)?

Do we want to borrow this from crocs/giant crocs?

*A crocodile gains a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks when in the water. Further, a crocodile can lie in the water with only its eyes and nostrils showing, gaining a +10 cover bonus on Hide checks.

Feats:  Alertness, Multiattack, Stealthy, Track?

+2 racial bonus for the breathweird's DC?


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## freyar (Mar 5, 2008)

Skills and feats sound good.  Sure, let's give them the hide bonus.  For the DC, do you mean to half the damage from the water stream?  The bonus would be fine, though I don't think 1d6 vs 1d3 is a big deal at this CR.

Edit: I think we forgot about the breathweird's racial grapple bonus.  +12, like a stirge?


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## Shade (Mar 5, 2008)

Oops!  I meant the racial bonus on grapple checks, not save DCs.  +12 is fine.

We gave it Str and 1/2 on both bite and tail slap.  I think we'll need to denote why somewhere in the ability.  I think crocodiles do not since they only can use one natural attack at a time.  OTOH, we might be better off just reigning in the bite to just Str bonus, as it already deals 3d6 damage.


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## freyar (Mar 5, 2008)

Let's just reduce the bite to + Str.  That seems easiest.


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## Shade (Mar 5, 2008)

Sounds good.

Updated.



> An ahuitzotl that lives in a cetay will often menace local natives until they appease him by dumping treasure, art objects, and food (preferably living animals) into the cetay.






> Ahuitzotl treasure should be converted to Maztican values. When coins are indicated using the above treasure types, substitute coral buds.




Oddly, treasure types I and Ux10 don't include any coins, just lots of gems and items.  

Treasure: No coins; double goods; double items

Advancement: 11-20 HD (Huge); 21-30 HD (Gargantuan)?

An ahuizotl is 18 feet long with a 9-foot tail. It weighs x pounds.

Ahuizotls speak Common and Draconic?


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## freyar (Mar 5, 2008)

That all sounds good.  

From Wikipedia on crocodiles, "Large species can reach over 5m (16 ft) long and weigh well over 1200 kg (2,640  lb)."  I think that includes the tail, so perhaps 3500-4000 lb?


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## Shade (Mar 6, 2008)

Organization: Solitary or colony (2-5)?

Challenge Rating: 9?

Anything else?


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## freyar (Mar 6, 2008)

Sounds good, and I guess it's done!


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## Shade (Mar 24, 2008)

*Plumazotl, Lesser * 
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Special
INTELLIGENCE: Very (11-12) 
TREASURE: Special 
ALIGNMENT: Any good 
NO. APPEARING: 1 
ARMOR CLASS: 3
MOVEMENT: 3, Fl 12 
HIT DICE: 1 to 5 
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-4/1-4/1-4 
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spell use
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Hit only by magical weapons
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 5% per Hit Die 
SIZE: T (3') to S (4') 
MORALE: Elite (13) 
XP VALUE: 1 HD: 270 
2 ND: 420 
3 HD: 650 
4 HD: 975 
5 HD: 2000

*Plumazotl, Greater*
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any
FREQUENCY: Very rare 
ORGANIZATION: Solitary
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Special
INTELLIGENCE: High (13-14)
TREASURE: Special
ALIGNMENT: Any good
NO. APPEARING: 1 (1-2)
ARMOR CLASS: 3
MOVEMENT: 9, Fl 48
HIT DICE: 6 to 10
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-6/1-6/1-6
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Spell use
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Hit only by magical weapons
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 5% per Hit Die
SIZE: M (5') to L (10')
MORALE: Champion (16)
XP VALUE: 6 HD: 3000
7 HD: 4000
8 HD: 5000
9 HD: 6000
10 HD: 7000

Payit legends tell of a time long ago when a powerful plumaweaver, Itzamna Manik, set out to create life with his magic. After many years of labor, using spells that have long been forgotten, he created a plumazotl, a living creature of pluma. The gods destroyed Itzamna Manik for his audacity, but some of his creations managed to escape and reproduce. Their descendants still inhabit lonely spots in Maztica. These rare creatures are composed completely of brightly colored feathers. They commonly take the forms of birds, although some have a humanoid shape. Their sizes range from that of a hummingbird to that of a giant eagle. Plumazotl have very musical voices, and generally speak an ancient form of Payit as well as the language of intelligent species that dwell near them.

COMBAT: Plumazotl are peaceful creatures, and they generally avoid combat if possible. If forced into combat, an individual defends itself with bites and clawing attacks. A plumazotl may use pluma magic. Lesser plumazotl cast spells as if they were plumaweavers of levels equivalent to their Hit Dice. Greater plumazotl have better spellcasting powers; those with 6 HD cast as 7th level plumaweavers, 7 HD as 8th level, 8 HD as 10th level, 9 HD as 12th level, and those with 10 HD cast as 14th level plumaweavers. 

Plumazotl are especially vulnerable to fire and take double damage from all fire-based attacks.

HABITAT/SOCIETY: The first of these creatures were given life hundreds of years ago. Granted intelligence and a will to survive, they became a true race and learned to feed and reproduce.  Plumazotl tend to live far from any civilization. They use their spellcasting abilities to create wonders in their homes, which eventually become safe, peaceful places
filled with color and music. Though they prefer to live alone, they are unafraid of humans, and sometimes appreach them to gain news of what is happening in the outside world. They offer tidbits of information in exchange for a brief conversation, but if given a bit of pluma magic, they become quite friendly and relate any desired information to the best of their ability. These visits are rare and brief, because it takes only a short time to satisfy a plumazotl's curiosity about the outside.

Though generally solitary, a pair of greater plumazotl sometimes comes together to mate. In a dazzling ritual, they pluck feathers from one another's bodies, form them into small images of birds or humans, then infuse them with a bit of their magic. These small creatures are lesser plumazotl with 1 Hit Die. A pair of greater plumazotl produces one or two offspring in this way before parting ways.  

Most plumazotl grow very slowly, finding bright feathers to add to their own bodies. If one finds or is given a pluma talisman, however, it may incorporate the magic of the item, growing by one or more Hit Dice, depending on the power of the talisman.

When lesser plumazotl reach the height of their growth, they begin searching for more and more material to incorporate into their forms. After they acquire, or one pluma talisman, they metamorphose into greater plumazotl.

ECOLOGY: Plumazotl feed on feathers and pluma magic, adding items directly into their bodies. Talismans are broken into their component parts before being absorbed.  Plumazotl have no natural enemies, though sometimes men hunt them for their inherent magic. If killed, a plumazotl produces a quantity of feathers suitable for featherweaving and pluma magic. A greater plumazotl may yield enough feathers for a blanket of featherweaving.

Originally appeared in Maztica Campaign Setting (1991).


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## GrayLinnorm (Mar 24, 2008)

I just saw the conversion of the nomadic centaur and there's a problem.  It says to see text for communal treasure, but the text says absolutely nothing about communal treasure.


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## freyar (Mar 25, 2008)

GrayLinnorm said:
			
		

> I just saw the conversion of the nomadic centaur and there's a problem.  It says to see text for communal treasure, but the text says absolutely nothing about communal treasure.



 Huh, there's nothing in the original text about communal treasure that I see, so maybe we should leave that blank.


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## Shade (Mar 25, 2008)

Oops!  Good catch, GrayLinnorm.



			
				The Horde CS said:
			
		

> Treasures taken by the clan are communally held. They recognize and understand the value of magical items. Those they can use, particularly weapons, are distributed among the warriors.




Treasure Type:  Q (I,V)


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## freyar (Mar 25, 2008)

Yeah, I figured that text referred to the standard items in the individual treasure.  So what does that treasure type mean for the communal treasure?

Regarding the plumazotl, I'm pretty sure I saw something at Candlekeep about pluma magic, so I'll look over there.


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## Shade (Mar 25, 2008)

Q is 1-4 gems (individual treasure).

I is 100-600 platinum or electrum, 2-12 gems, 2-8 art objects, Any 1 magic item.

V is any 2 magic items.

So I suppose we could state standard treasure on the treasure lines, then note in the flavor text that all treasure (except for 1-4 gems per individual) is held communally.

Sound OK?


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## freyar (Mar 26, 2008)

Sounds good to me!


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## Shade (Mar 26, 2008)

Updated.

Look OK?


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## freyar (Mar 26, 2008)

Yeah, looks good.

Pluma magic seems just to be a Maztican version of arcane magic (though slightly tied to divine magic).  Maybe we can choose some particular domains and let these cast from them as sorcerers.  Additionally, pluma magic was limited to 5th level spells in 2e, which one person at Candlekeep suggested corresponds to 6th level in 3e.  Don't know about that, but we should probably put a level limit.


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## Shade (Mar 27, 2008)

Sounds like a good place to start.  Don't feathers figure heavily into the magic (possibly as a focus or material component)?

Magical beasts, I'd assume.

Plumazotl, Lesser
INTELLIGENCE: Very (11-12) 

Plumazotl, Greater
INTELLIGENCE: High (13-14)

We've got their Int ranges.  I'd say Cha should be equal or higher.  Wis is probably close, too.

Any thoughts on physical traits?   Nothing seems to indicate other than average Str and Con.  Dex might be a bit above normal, though, due to the good ACs.


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## freyar (Mar 28, 2008)

Yeah, feathers seem to be important.

Why don't we put Wis and Cha both 2-3 higher than Int.

These probably shouldn't have much natural armor, so I'd agree with higher Dex.

We need to pick sizes for these, maybe Tiny advancing to Small and Medium advancing to Large?


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## Shade (Mar 31, 2008)

So, how about for lesser:  Str 7, Dex 21, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 14, Cha 15?

and greater:  Str 11, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 17?

I agree with your suggestions of Tiny and Medium baselines .


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## freyar (Mar 31, 2008)

Sounds good.  These both have 2 claws and a bite with the same damage (1d4 for lesser, 1d6 for greater).



> Lesser plumazotl cast spells as if they were plumaweavers of levels equivalent to their Hit Dice. Greater plumazotl have better spellcasting powers; those with 6 HD cast as 7th level plumaweavers, 7 HD as 8th level, 8 HD as 10th level, 9 HD as 12th level, and those with 10 HD cast as 14th level plumaweavers.
> 
> Plumazotl are especially vulnerable to fire and take double damage from all fire-based attacks.




We need to add vulnerability to fire.  

Seems like their main schtick is the spellcasting.  The lesser plumazotl seems easy; it casts as a sorcerer of level equal to hit dice.  How do you want to handle the greater plumazotl?


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## Shade (Apr 1, 2008)

Hmmm...

It might be easiest to just have greaters cast as HD+2 to spread it out a bit more.

Thoughts?


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## freyar (Apr 2, 2008)

Sounds about right to me.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 2, 2008)

Yeah, that sounds good.


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## Shade (Apr 2, 2008)

Added lesser to Homebrews.


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## freyar (Apr 2, 2008)

Why is grapple so high for these?

For the domains, I'd suggest Air, Animal, Magic, and maybe Good, Healing, or Luck.  What do you think?


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## Shade (Apr 2, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> Why is grapple so high for these?




Bad drugs?  A momentary lapse of reason?  Gremlins?

Dunno, but I've fixed it.    



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> For the domains, I'd suggest Air, Animal, Magic, and maybe Good, Healing, or Luck.  What do you think?




I just read over pluma magic in the Maztica CS, and I like Air, Animal, Magic, and Water.

Sound OK?

Also, it looks like most spells (if not all) have some sort of feather-related material component.  Should we say that all pluma magic spells require a feather as an additional material component?  Or maybe that they substitute a feather of equal value (price based on rarity) for other material components?  I kind of prefer the latter, as it would help explain how the plumazotly can carry their components, and would also account for their hunting for bright feathers to add to their own bodies.


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## freyar (Apr 2, 2008)

Domains sound good, and I like the "feather of equal value" idea.

Should we work up an unusual advancement for these, like the barghest but not so nasty?


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## Shade (Apr 2, 2008)

Updated.

Since pluma talismans don't exist in 3e, we'll need some alternative to absorb for growth.  Maybe the feathers from magical beasts of a certain amount of HD?


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## GrayLinnorm (Apr 3, 2008)

Would Quaal's feather tokens work?


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## freyar (Apr 3, 2008)

Quall's feather tokens are a nice idea, as are the feathers.  I think the main thing is not to be too limiting; pluma tokens were probably a lot more prevalent in 2e Maztica than Quall's feather tokens ever have been.  Are there any other items we can think of?  Holy symbols for deities with one of the pluma magic domains?


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## Shade (Apr 3, 2008)

GrayLinnorm said:
			
		

> Would Quaal's feather tokens work?




I like it.  We could expand it to include all magic items with feathers, such as wings of flying and bird-feather headress, even magic arrows (which were a common theme in pluma magic).

Basically if it has feathers, and is somehow associated with magic, it can be consumed?


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## freyar (Apr 3, 2008)

Oh, magic arrows are perfect.  How about

Consume Magic (Su): A lesser plumazotl advances in hit dice by absorbing magic items into its body.  The magic item to be consumed must have feathers or be associated with feathers, such as a feather token or a magic arrow.  For every 1000 gp? of magic items that the lesser plumazotl consumes, it gains one hit die; when it reaches 6 hit dice, it metamorphoses into a greater plumazotl.


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## Shade (Apr 3, 2008)

Lookin' good.  I'd expand it out to include the feathers of magical creatures as well:

Consume Magic (Su): A lesser plumazotl advances in hit dice by absorbing magic items into its body. The magic item to be consumed must have feathers or be associated with feathers, such as a feather token or a magic arrow. For every 1000 gp? of magic items that the lesser plumazotl consumes, it gains one hit die; when it reaches 6 hit dice, it metamorphoses into a greater plumazotl.

Additionally, a lesser plumazotl can consume the feathers from magical beasts and outsiders.  The lesser plumazotl gains 1 Hit Die for every 5? HD the original creature possessed.  A lesser plumazotl may only gain this benefit from a specific creature once, even if additional feathers are consumed.


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## freyar (Apr 3, 2008)

I like that!  What do you think of the gp/HD requirements?  5HD sounds about right, but I wonder if 1000gp is too high.


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## Shade (Apr 3, 2008)

Feather tokens range from 50-500 gp.


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## freyar (Apr 4, 2008)

Ok, assuming equal gp values (how do other magic items compare across editions?), then we should reduce the magic item gp requirement to something like 200 gp.  Thoughts?


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## Shade (Apr 7, 2008)

Sounds good to me.  Updated.


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## freyar (Apr 7, 2008)

Filling in some blanks:

Skills: Concentration 4, Listen 4, Spot 4.  I could alternately see taking one rank from each and adding in Perform (dance) 3.
Feats: Alertness?
CR: 1
Treasure: see text
Advancement: 2-3 HD (Tiny), 4-5 HD (Small)
Level Adjustment: ? 
weighs 2 lbs?

Treasure: Plumazotl typically carry no treasure, but their bodies are infused with pluma magic.    The feathers of a lesser plumazotl are useful as components in spells and as works of art in themselves.  The value of a plumazotl's feathers is equivalent to standard treasure value of goods.

Treasure probably needs work...


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## Shade (Apr 16, 2008)

Updated.

Good maneuverability?


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## freyar (Apr 16, 2008)

Good maneuverability, DR 5/magic, SR 10? or 10+HD?  Other than that, just change their lairs from "peaceful placed" to "peaceful places," and I think we're good to go.


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## Shade (Apr 17, 2008)

Let's go with spell resistance 5 + HD, as it was originally very low.

Ready for the greaters?


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## freyar (Apr 17, 2008)

Sounds fine, and I think we're ready.  Shouldn't be too much harder.


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## Shade (Apr 17, 2008)

Upthread we agreed on starting at Medium, Str 11, Dex 17, Con 10, Int 14, Wis 16, Cha 17, and cast as sorcerers of level equal to HD+2.

Does all that still sound good?


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## freyar (Apr 17, 2008)

Yes, sounds good.  I'd say that they're otherwise almost identical copies.  Even the advancement will be the same if we take out the bit about changing into a greater plumazotl at 6HD.  What do you think?  Should we add any other abilities?  This is kind of boring if we don't, I guess.


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## Shade (Apr 18, 2008)

Added to Homebrews.

I'm not sure if we need to add any additional abilities, since they already have the better spellcasting power.  If you have an intersting idea, though, pass it along.

AC needs to remain at 17.  With the lower Dex and loss of size bonus, we need to make up 4 points of AC.  Wanna go with natural armor, or maybe a deflection bonus?

Increase Damage reduction to 10/magic?

Skills: Concentration +9, Listen +15, Spot +15, 1 more at 9 ranks

Feats: Alertness, 2 more


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## freyar (Apr 18, 2008)

Deflection bonus, DR 10, Knowedge (arcana), Spell Focus (abjuration) and Spell Penetration?

Sadly, no really appropriate SAs come to mind.


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## Shade (Apr 18, 2008)

Let's split ranks between K (arcana) and Spellcraft.

CR 8?  (They are extremely mobile 8th-level casters)

A greater plumazotl is 5 to 10 feet long and weighs x pounds.

Cap advancement at 18 HD, regardless of additional feather acquisition?


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## freyar (Apr 18, 2008)

All sounds good, and I say 4-8 lb.  It's still mostly feathers.


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## Shade (Apr 18, 2008)

Updated.

All done?


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## freyar (Apr 18, 2008)

Yup.


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## Arnwyn (Apr 21, 2008)

Awesome, guys!

Thanks!


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## freyar (Apr 21, 2008)

You're welcome, have fun with them!


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## Shade (Apr 24, 2008)

I believe this may be the very last unconverted Maztica and Horde creature!

*Bacar * 
CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Tropical
FREQUENCY: Very rare
ORGANIZATION: Colony
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any
DIET: Omnivorous
INTELLIGENCE: Low (6) and see below
TREASURE: A
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
NO. APPEARING: 2-8
ARMOR CLASS: 5 (4 with shield)
MOVEMENT: 9
HIT DICE: 3
THAC0: 18
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2 or 3 (bite + weapon(s))
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1- 6/by weapon type
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Insect control
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RESISITANCE: Nil
SIZE: L (10')
MORALE: Steady (12)
XP VALUE: 270

The bacars are intelligent, enchanted ants created by hishna and pluma magic as the guardians of the sacred site of Ixtzul.  They appear to be giant ants, but carry weapons and shields.  Their bodies are dark red, running to black along the thorax, and their underbellies are a steel blue, consisting of overlapping plates of chitin.

COMBAT: The bacars are organized along a military society, and are usually found only in patrols of 2-8 creatures, save at their lair at Ixtzul. In patrols they fight only with their bite, and only if in groups of 6 or more do they use weapons and shields.

A lone bacar is relatively unintelligent, following its orders to the exclusion of other matters (such as "Patrol," "Gather," "Scout," etc . . .). Their base Intelligence is 6. For eacha additional bacar within 20', however, the collective Intelligence is raised by one, so that a party of 3 bacars have Average Intelligence of 8, and 6 bacars are Very intelligent (11).  At the Very Intelligent level, they begin to use their weapons, including long obsidian knives (1-3), macas (1-8) and slings (1-4). When using macas, the bacars use shields, raising their Armor Class to 4. When using slings or knives, they do not use shields, but they wield two knives at the same time.  At the Highly Intelligent level (13 or better), bacars may operate outside the valley. In addition, at that stage they may mentally command colonies of army ants in the area. This allows them to effectively cast the priest's creeping doom spell once per day in a typical jungle. (See the valley area itself for locations of ant colonies in the Ixtzul Vale.)

HABITAT/SOCIETY: The bacars exist in an expanded version of ant society, aided by their limited telepathic abilities. Orders are passed from the queen (and in this case Mirandos) to the soldiers by means of touching antennae. Individually, the bacars have little initiative, and do not act unless ordered to. A bacar sent to gather food pays no attention to an advancing army (though if the army is edible, they try to drag parts of it off as food, then inform the nest that new food exists in that direction).

Typical bacar tasks include:

_Gather: _ Bring back carrion, small living creatures, and succulent leaves and vines to feed the colony.

_Scout: _ Look for things that were not there before. If things are present, or changed, report immediately back to the nest.  If there is a potential danger (one of the scouting bacars is killed), one scout is sent back, the others forming a rearguard. 

_Guard: _ Let nothing that is not bacar (except Mirandos and her followers) pass. Do not report back; fight until dead (18 morale when in this state).

_Attack: _ Used when a particular enemy is identified (usually by scent). The enemy is to be slain. All non-bacars are slain.  Use of creeping doom where applicable.

_Capture: _ As for Attack, but the targets are to be knocked unconscious and taken alive. If the creeping doom is used, it is to herd the target to the bacars.

_Track: _ Used against a retreating foe. The prey is to be tracked down. If possible use the creeping doom. All other potential targets are ignored unless they attack the trackers. Once captured or slain, the trackers return to Ixtzul.

_Maintain: _ The most common function of the bacars when not involved in battle, they patrol the grounds, cleaning up bits of vegetation and debris, checking with their antennae to maintain the wards that hold the Star Worm. The colony has the power to reinstate the wards that weaken over time.  Bacars engaged in maintenance do not fight unless attacked. They report strange activity in their area.

ECOLOGY: The bacars have a queen to which all defer, who provides both the eggs for new bacars (though not at levels of a normal ant colony), and orders for her soldiers. The queen is a large, bloated creature with no defenses of her own, AC 9, with 50 hp. Attacking the queen brings all bacars within 50 yards, with an additional 2-12 arriving each round thereafter.

If the queen is slain, the bacars lose their telepathic abilities. They act as individual monsters, attacking when attacked or hungry. Killing the queen also breaks the bonds holding H'Calos the Star Worm in check.

Originally appeared in FMA2 - Endless Armies (1991).


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## freyar (Apr 24, 2008)

Wow, last one, pretty amazing.  Will these be the first settings (setting parts?) we've finished?

First off, magical beast?

We can probably get some inspiration for these from formians and the other bug-people, huh?


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## Shade (Apr 28, 2008)

I do believe this will be the first setting completed.

Ability scores of similar creatures:

Abeil Vassal: Str 11, Dex 13, Con 10, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 9
Formian Warrior: Str 17, Dex 16, Con 14, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 11
Thri-kreen: Str 12, Dex 15, Con 11, Int 8, Wis 12, Cha 7


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## freyar (Apr 29, 2008)

Since bacars are Large, and the ones you listed are Medium, we should go high on Str and Con, low on Dex.  For ex, the abeil soldier is Str 22 and the formian myrmarch is Str 19.  Let's try

Str 23, Dex 12, Con 19, Int 6, Wis 12, Cha 7


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## Shade (Apr 29, 2008)

Oh...good catch!   Those ability scores look reasonable.



> A lone bacar is relatively unintelligent, following its orders to the exclusion of other matters (such as "Patrol," "Gather," "Scout," etc . . .). Their base Intelligence is 6. For eacha additional bacar within 20', however, the collective Intelligence is raised by one, so that a party of 3 bacars have Average Intelligence of 8, and 6 bacars are Very intelligent (11). At the Very Intelligent level, they begin to use their weapons, including long obsidian knives (1-3), macas (1-8) and slings (1-4). When using macas, the bacars use shields, raising their Armor Class to 4. When using slings or knives, they do not use shields, but they wield two knives at the same time. At the Highly Intelligent level (13 or better), bacars may operate outside the valley. In addition, at that stage they may mentally command colonies of army ants in the area. This allows them to effectively cast the priest's creeping doom spell once per day in a typical jungle. (See the valley area itself for locations of ant colonies in the Ixtzul Vale.)




This "smarter in numbers" ability reminds me a bit of cranium rats.


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## freyar (Apr 29, 2008)

Knew I'd seen something like that somewhere.  I don't suppose you have the cranium rat text hndy, do you?


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## Big Mac (Apr 29, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> Knew I'd seen something like that somewhere.  I don't suppose you have the cranium rat text hndy, do you?




Someone already asked that in this thead:
http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=40222

This was put up on PS3e, but the website was down. (It is now one of those spam-search-engine websites.)

Luckily somone called Bugbear had a copy on his computer:



			
				Bugbear said:
			
		

> Monster: Cranium Rats (arcane)
> 
> Type: Tiny Magical Beast
> Hit Dice: ½d10+1 (3 hp)
> ...




I've just found this on the Wayback Machine. The page has some elements missing, but it looks a little bit neater:
http://web.archive.org/web/20031110224715/http://www.ps3e.com/monsterDetail.asp?id=43


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## freyar (Apr 30, 2008)

Hmm, the cranium rats posted here are more complicated than what we need.  How about this?

Hive Mind (Ex): All bacars are automatically in telepathic contact with all other bacars within 20 ft that allows them to share thoughts and generate extra brain capacity.  The group Intelligence of a group of bacars is equal to 5 + the number of bacars in telepathic contact.  That is, a single bacar has Int 6, 3 bacars have Int 8, and 6 have Int 11, for example.  Bacars only use weapons at Int 11 and higher.  They are only allowed to operate on their own for extended periods at Int 13 and higher.


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## Shade (May 2, 2008)

Looks good.



> At the Highly Intelligent level (13 or better), bacars may operate outside the valley. In addition, at that stage they may mentally command colonies of army ants in the area. This allows them to effectively cast the priest's creeping doom spell once per day in a typical jungle. (See the valley area itself for locations of ant colonies in the Ixtzul Vale.)




Creeping doom now just allows calling multiple centipede swarms.

There are no stats for an ant swarm.  Abyssal ant swarms are probably too powerful for this case.  It might be simplest to just let them summon a number of locust swarms to represent ant swarms, and just drop the fly speed.

Thoughts?


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## freyar (May 3, 2008)

How about adding the following to the Hive Mind entry?

In addition, groups of bacars with Int 13 or higher can summon up to 1 ant swarm per bacar per day (use the statistics for locust swarms but drop the fly speed).  This supernatural ability is the equivalent of a 7th level spell.


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## Shade (May 5, 2008)

Very nice.


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## freyar (May 5, 2008)

Anything else in the way of SAs for these?



> Gather:  Bring back carrion, small living creatures, and succulent leaves and vines to feed the colony.
> 
> Scout: Look for things that were not there before. If things are present, or changed, report immediately back to the nest. If there is a potential danger (one of the scouting bacars is killed), one scout is sent back, the others forming a rearguard.
> 
> ...



I think we can mostly just copy this and drop the stuff that's specific to the adventure (?) they're from.


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## Shade (May 5, 2008)

That sounds mostly like flavor texts/tactics, eh?



> ECOLOGY: The bacars have a queen to which all defer, who provides both the eggs for new bacars (though not at levels of a normal ant colony), and orders for her soldiers. The queen is a large, bloated creature with no defenses of her own, AC 9, with 50 hp. Attacking the queen brings all bacars within 50 yards, with an additional 2-12 arriving each round thereafter.
> 
> If the queen is slain, the bacars lose their telepathic abilities. They act as individual monsters, attacking when attacked or hungry. Killing the queen also breaks the bonds holding H'Calos the Star Worm in check.




Should we add a section for the queen?   It sounds like in 3e terms, they'd lose hive mind if the queen is destroyed.


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## freyar (May 5, 2008)

Right, definitely flavor.  I guess I made it sound like those should be part of the SAs.  Actually, no!

We should probably put something in the flavor just to describe the queen and then put a line in Hive Mind that bacars lose the Hive Mind ability if the colony's queen is killed.


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## Shade (May 6, 2008)

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (May 6, 2008)

I don't think these have any other SAs, so should we work on the weapons?  We have obsidian knives (seem to be daggers) used in pairs, slings, and macas.  Any idea what a maca is?  Any source for those?


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## demiurge1138 (May 6, 2008)

The only thing I'm finding for "maca" is a plant. Maca is probably short for macahuitl, an obsidian-edged club used in lieu of a sword in pre-ironworking Central and South America. They appear in MMIV as two-handed martial weapons that do 1d10 x2 bludgeoning and piercing damage, although that should probably be bludgeoning and slashing.

Which sucks.

I say make them the equivalent of a greatsword, which is how they were used. 2 handed, martial, 2d6 19-20x2.

Demiurge out.


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## Shade (May 6, 2008)

In the Maztica campaign setting, they're essentially obsidian battleaxes.


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

Hmmm.  


> At the Very Intelligent level, they begin to use their weapons, including long obsidian knives (1-3), macas (1-8) and slings (1-4). When using macas, the bacars use shields, raising their Armor Class to 4. When using slings or knives, they do not use shields, but they wield two knives at the same time.




Looks like we can't go the two-handed route if we want to give them shields.  What do you think?  Treat them as battleaxes (1-handed, 1d8 damage) or greataxes/greatswords?


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## demiurge1138 (May 7, 2008)

Battleaxes. It's entirely possible, based on the info I've seen, that Maztica used "maca" for a one handed macauhuitl and macauhuitl for a two-handed one.


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

Just looked at the Maztica CS this morning, and (sadly) there is no 2-handed version.  I suppose we could add them, though.


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## Shade (May 7, 2008)

So for the attack lines battleaxe, dagger, and sling?

In the flavor text, mention the maca is an obsidian weapon similar to a battleaxe?


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

Sounds good to me.  

Skills: Listen 3, Spot 3?
Feats: Alertness, Power Attack?


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## demiurge1138 (May 7, 2008)

Feats and skills seem reasonable.


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

Ok, then.

CR: 3?
Treasure: None (except the queen, see text)?
Environment: Any forest
Organization: Solitary, Troop (2-8), or Colony (20-50 plus queen)
Alignment: Always neutral.
Advancement: 4-6 HD (Large), 7-9 HD (Huge)?
300 lb?  Speak Sylvan?


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## Shade (May 7, 2008)

Most of that looks good.

I think CR 3 may be too high, as they don't have many powerful abilities.  They feel more like CR 2 to me.

Enviroment of "any tropical" probably translates to "Any warm land".

Type A Treasure includes 1,000-3,000 Copper, 200-2,000 Silver, 1,000-6,000 Gold, 300-1,800 Platinum or Electrum, 10-40 Gems, 2-12 Art Objects, and Any 3 Magical Items.


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

CR 2 is ok with me.  I hope that treasure isn't for each bacar, though, as that's way too much for a CR 2 critter!  Should that be the colony's treasure, then?


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## Shade (May 7, 2008)

I believe so.

The question is, do we just give them standard treasure, and note in the flavor text that it is all communally held?  That sould seem to be the easiest approach.  Alternatively, we could state that the colony has treasure equivalent to an EL X encounter.


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

Giving them each Standard Treasure at CR2 is going to get you a fair amount of money but probably not the magic items.  What if we say that the colony has 1 EL 6 treasure per troop of 8 bacars?


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## Shade (May 7, 2008)

That sounds reasonable.

Updated.

Anything else?


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## freyar (May 7, 2008)

I think it's done!


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## demiurge1138 (May 8, 2008)

We're done with a whole theme then, aren't we? Break out the champagne?


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## Shade (May 8, 2008)

demiurge1138 said:
			
		

> We're done with a whole theme then, aren't we? Break out the champagne?




We can toast the completion of Maztica, but apparently we're one critter away from closing out this thread:  Ambuchar Devayam/Tan Chin.


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## Echohawk (May 8, 2008)

Shade said:
			
		

> Indeed.  Echohawk, do you have the original stats handy?




*Ambuchar Devayam/Tan Chin*

CLIMATE/TERRAIN: Any
FREQUENCY: Unique
ORGANIZATION: Solitary or city
ACTIVITY CYCLE: Any, prefers night
DIET: Omnivore
INTELLIGENCE: Supra-genius (19)
TREASURE: G
ALIGNMENT: Lawful evil
NO. APPEARING: 1
ARMOR CLASS: 0
MOVEMENT: 12
HIT DICE: 12 (75 hp)
THAC0: 9
NO. OF ATTACKS: 2
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1d10/gaze
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: See below
MAGIC RESISTANCE: 40%
SIZE: M (6' Tall)
MORALE: Fearless (20)
XP VALUE: 20,000

Ambuchar Devayam is a unique form of undead, created through his own evil necromancy and fortified by the magic of the Imaskari. Through the centuries, one purpose has kept him alive: to conquer Shou Lung and return to the glory he once knew as its emperor, Tan Chin. To this end, he has used his supernatural powers to make himself the Raja of Solon. He intends to conquer Ra-Khati and use it as a staging area for his war against Shou Lung.
In his true form, Ambuchar resembles a pair of disembodied golden eyes. These eyes are all that is visible of the shadow which he projects onto the prime material plane from his true home in an unknown plane of darkness. However, Devayam often uses a permanent form of the _possess_ spell from _Oriental Adventures_ to project his spirit into some unfortunate subject's body. Such possessions can always be detected easily, however, for the victim's eyes glow with a harsh, golden gleam.
The Solonese raja Ambuchar Devayam and the Shou emperor Tan Chin are in fact the same man. In life, Tan Chin was a powerful necromancer who ruled his empire with an iron fist. After the wizard Shih led a revolt and drove the cruel emperor from his capital in Kuo Meilan, Tan Chin journeyed to the lands south of Solon, learning the secrets of the ancient Imaskari. Finally, he gave his life for unlife, conquered Solon, and became the raja Ambuchar Devayam.

*Combat.* Although he fights as a 12 HD monster and inflicts only 1d10 points of damage, the side effects of being hit by the raja are deadly. Any creature hit by Ambuchar Devayam must immediately make two saves, the first one vs. paralyzation and the second one vs. spell. Those failing the first save are paralyzed with fright for 1d4 rounds (and are not required to make the second save). Those failing the second save flee in fear for 1d4 rounds.
In addition, any creature struck by the raja suffers a loss of one life (experience) level, and all scores (THAC0, hp, saving throws, etc.) are immediately adjusted. Also, anyone creature in combat with the raja is subject to a gaze attack. Devayam rolls to hit the creature normally. If the attack is successful, the victim locks eyes with the raja's golden orbs, and must make a successful Constitution check or lose one point of Constitution (permanently). Beings reduced to zero Constitution points die.
Ambuchar Devayam/Tan Chin can be hit only by +1 or better magical weapons. He is immune to _charm, sleep, enfeeblement, polymorph,_ and all cold-based, insanity, and death spells. He can only be turned by a cleric of level 15 or higher, and then only on a roll of 20. The raja is also spared the effects of the _Prism of Krushk_; if trapped by its effects, he simply destroys the body he is inhabiting at the time, then returns to his phylactery.
Ambuchar now uses Imaskari magic to store his life force upon the prime material plane in a phylactery inside the Ebony Temple (see Part III, Event 22). The only way to permanently destroy the raja is to collect the four Ebony Artifacts of the Imaskari from the various dimensions inside the Ebony Temple and throw them into the Bottomless Pit of Fire located there. Otherwise, the raja's crystal phylactery simply reforms 24 hours after being destroyed. (Throwing the four Ebony Artifacts into the Bottomless Pit of Fire severs the connection between the raja's dimension and the prime material plane.)
The raja can cast any spell he wishes from the necromancy school of magic. He has the innate power to animate and control any creature that was marked with the _Stamp of Tan Chin_ when it died.
The statistics and descriptions above apply to any body the raja inhabits, as well as his crystal phylactery.

*Habitat/Society.* He rules as an absolute dictator, killing those who displease him and granting life and power to those who do not. When in Solon, he spends most of his time either in the Star Houses contemplating the latest discoveries from the Imaskari excavations, or in the Ebony Temple, plotting his takeover of Shou Lung.

*Ecology.* To maintain his strength on the prime material plane, the raja needs to _possess_ and drain one living creature per week.


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## Shade (May 8, 2008)

Thanks!   Interesting fellow, too.


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## freyar (May 8, 2008)

Definitely.  Any chance we have the text for the possess spell?  I think that may be useful.


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## demiurge1138 (May 8, 2008)

Isn't it just magic jar? Or is this different. It mentions "draining", so it could be magic jar + negative levels...


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## Shade (May 9, 2008)

We could use the possession rules from BoVD and the  Fiendish Codices as inspiration as well.

So, getting started, incorporeal undead?

Stick with 12 HD, or use the "divide by 4.5" rule for unique beings, which gives it 16 HD?  Note that we gave his servants, the dowagu, 12 HD.

We know Int is 19.  Cha should probably be at least that high.  Con is -, and Str probably is as well.  Wis and Dex are probably decent to high as well.


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## freyar (May 9, 2008)

I think we should go with 16HD, since we gave the dowagu 12.

Str -, Dex 18, Con -, Int 19, Wis 18, Cha 21?


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## Shade (May 12, 2008)

Looks good to me.


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## freyar (May 12, 2008)

Let's think about possession a little.  Do we want to go the magic jar + negative levels route or enhance it somewhat to boost the host body's hp, etc?


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## Shade (May 19, 2008)

I think the magic jar + neg levels should suffice.  Anyone else?


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## demiurge1138 (May 19, 2008)

I like it.


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## freyar (May 20, 2008)

I was just going to try to write this up now, but I have a question about magic jar: if you possess someone else using magic jar, do you keep your Ex, Su, and Sp abilities?  You keep your "mental abilities" and do *not* get the host's Su or Sp abilities, but it's not clear on this point.  For this guy, though, his attacks seem to include a fear effect and energy drain.  He also seems to keep his Con drain gaze attack.  Also, possessed creature suffers one negative level per day w/o getting a Fort save to remove (until the possession ends)?


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## Shade (May 22, 2008)

Dunno. 

Magic jar, like astral projection and a few other fiddly rules, I tend to avoid like the plague in play.


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## freyar (May 22, 2008)

Well, I'll just make things explicit.

Possession (Su): Once per round, Ambuchar Devayam can attempt to merge his incorporeal body with a creature on the Material Plane.  This ability functions as the magic jar spell, except that it does not require a receptacle and as outlined below.  To use this ability, Ambuchar Devayam attempts to move into the creature's space; if the creature fails a DC X Will save, Ambuchar Devayam merges with the creature and takes possession of it.  If the save succeeds, Ambuchar Devayam does not possess the creature and cannot move into its space, and the creature is immune to Ambuchar Devayam's possession for 1 hour.  Attempting to possess a creature does not provoke attacks of opportunity.

While possessing a creature, Ambuchar Devayam keeps his Su and Sp abilities, including his gaze and touch attacks.  In addition, each day that Ambuchar Devayam possesses a creature, the possessed creature suffers a negative level.  These negative levels cannot be removed in any way while the creature is possessed, but they also do not result in actual level loss until the possession ends.  However, as normal, a creature with as many negative levels as HD still dies.


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## Shade (May 22, 2008)

Added to Homebrews.



> In his true form, Ambuchar resembles a pair of disembodied golden eyes. These eyes are all that is visible of the shadow which he projects onto the prime material plane from his true home in an unknown plane of darkness.




Extraplanar subtype?



> Combat. Although he fights as a 12 HD monster and inflicts only 1d10 points of damage, the side effects of being hit by the raja are deadly. Any creature hit by Ambuchar Devayam must immediately make two saves, the first one vs. paralyzation and the second one vs. spell. Those failing the first save are paralyzed with fright for 1d4 rounds (and are not required to make the second save). Those failing the second save flee in fear for 1d4 rounds.




How's this?

Frightful Strike (Su):  Any creature struck by the incorporeal touch of Ambuchar Devayam must succeed on a DC X Will save or cower for 1d4 rounds.  Even on a successful save, the victim must make a second DC X Will save or be panicked for 1d4 rounds.  The save DCs are Charisma-based.



> In addition, any creature struck by the raja suffers a loss of one life (experience) level, and all scores (THAC0, hp, saving throws, etc.) are immediately adjusted.




Energy drain for a single negative level?



> Also, anyone creature in combat with the raja is subject to a gaze attack. Devayam rolls to hit the creature normally. If the attack is successful, the victim locks eyes with the raja's golden orbs, and must make a successful Constitution check or lose one point of Constitution (permanently). Beings reduced to zero Constitution points die.




Draining Gaze (Su): 1 point of Constitution drain, range 30 feet, Fortitude DC x negates. The save DC is Charisma-based.

Look OK?



> Ambuchar Devayam/Tan Chin can be hit only by +1 or better magical weapons. He is immune to charm, sleep, enfeeblement, polymorph, and all cold-based, insanity, and death spells. He can only be turned by a cleric of level 15 or higher, and then only on a roll of 20.




Damage reduction 15/magic?  Or go with something more interesting, like good or silver?

Immunity to cold?



> The raja can cast any spell he wishes from the necromancy school of magic.




Sorcerer spellcasting or cast any spell from the necromancy school 1/day as a SLA?  Or something else entirely?



> He has the innate power to animate and control any creature that was marked with the Stamp of Tan Chin when it died.




We'll have to revisit the dowagu to see what we did with the Stamp.l


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## freyar (May 22, 2008)

Shade said:
			
		

> Extraplanar subtype?



Well, definitely incorporeal subtype.  I guess extraplanar due to the line about "maintaining his ties to the Material Plane," but mostly I see him like a ghost, kind of half-here, half-not.  Might want to write something up about that.



> How's this?
> 
> Frightful Strike (Su):  Any creature struck by the incorporeal touch of Ambuchar Devayam must succeed on a DC X Will save or cower for 1d4 rounds.  Even on a successful save, the victim must make a second DC X Will save or be panicked for 1d4 rounds.  The save DCs are Charisma-based.
> 
> ...



I like all that.



> Damage reduction 15/magic?  Or go with something more interesting, like good or silver?
> 
> Immunity to cold?



Magic and silver DR?  Yes on cold immunity



> Sorcerer spellcasting or cast any spell from the necromancy school 1/day as a SLA?  Or something else entirely?



I'd lean toward the SLA, but I don't know if 1/day is enough.  What if we do sorc spellcasting with whatever advanced learning thing we did for LGZ.



> We'll have to revisit the dowagu to see what we did with the Stamp.l



Agreed.


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## Shade (May 23, 2008)

You know, since he's incorporeal, the "magic" part of damage reduction would already be implied, right?  So DR/silver would probably suffice?

Here's what we gave the dowagu:

Stamp of Tan Chin (Su): As a full round action, a dowagu may place a dark tattoo upon a helpless creature. This mark cannot be removed through anything short of divine intervention or the destruction of the dowagu's master, the Raja Ambuchar Devayam. Attempts to conceal the mark always fail--it is clearly visible even through armor, clothing, and makeup. Even spells, such as shapechange or alter self, cannot conceal the mark. The victim still gains the benefits of these spells, but the mark is always present in their current form. Upon the marked victim's death, it becomes a zombie (or greater undead, at the DMs discretion) under the control of the Raja Ambuchar Devayam. The new undead will immediately seek out the Raja to receive orders.


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## freyar (May 23, 2008)

Since his DR is probably an Su ability, his possessed body should get it too (the way I wrote Possession).  So let's include the magic DR.

For the stamp:

Slaves of Tan Chin (Su): Any creature that has been marked with the Stamp of Tan Chin (see the dowagu) becomes a zombie (or greater undead, at the DM's discretion) immediately upon its death.  The victim is now under the completely control of Ambuchar Devayam and will seek him out immediately to receive orders.  Undead marked by the Stamp of Tan Chin are so completely controlled by Ambuchar Devayam that they may not be rebuked, commanded, or otherwise magically controlled by any other creature.


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## Shade (May 27, 2008)

Looks good.  Should he also be able to "stamp" creatures?


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## freyar (May 27, 2008)

Yes, good idea!  But I think only if he's possessing someone since it might be hard to stamp something if you're incorporeal.


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## Shade (May 28, 2008)

Updated.

Skills: 8 at 19 ranks

Feats: 6


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## freyar (May 28, 2008)

Actually, I meant that he could stamp creatures he isn't possessing, but only when he has a material body.

I'd like to deal with the following before we get into skills and feats:



> He can only be turned by a cleric of level 15 or higher, and then only on a roll of 20. The raja is also spared the effects of the Prism of Krushk; if trapped by its effects, he simply destroys the body he is inhabiting at the time, then returns to his phylactery.
> Ambuchar now uses Imaskari magic to store his life force upon the prime material plane in a phylactery inside the Ebony Temple (see Part III, Event 22). The only way to permanently destroy the raja is to collect the four Ebony Artifacts of the Imaskari from the various dimensions inside the Ebony Temple and throw them into the Bottomless Pit of Fire located there. Otherwise, the raja's crystal phylactery simply reforms 24 hours after being destroyed. (Throwing the four Ebony Artifacts into the Bottomless Pit of Fire severs the connection between the raja's dimension and the prime material plane.)




Immune to turning or just some insanely high turn resistance?
Given the odd conditions for his destruction, I'd say that he has a phylactery like a lich, but the phylactery is an artifact that reforms in 24 hours after its destruction unless it is destroyed in some special way pre-determined by the DM (something like we did with the ghazneths, I guess.)

We were also discussing his ability to cast all necromancy spells.  Did we want to go with SLAs or sorc spellcasting with some kind of advanced learning?


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## Shade (Jun 4, 2008)

I'll revise the stamp ability.

I vote insanely high turn resistance (truer to the spirit of the original).

Agreed on the phylactery.

I think I prefer any spell from the necromancy school 1/day as a SLA.  Anyone else have an opinion?


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2008)

I'm agreed with all that.  Do you think +8 on the turn resistance is enough?  Here's a shot at the phylactery:

Crystal Phylactery (Su): The raja Ambuchar Devayam's soul is tied to the Material Plane through a phylactery, like a lich's, which is apparently made of crystal.  If he is ever destroyed, his phylactery regenerates his incorporeal "body" in one hour.  In addition, if the crystal phylactery is destroyed by normal means, it reforms itself in 24 hours.  (If Ambuchar Devayam is destroyed while his crystal phylactery is destroyed, he does not reform until the phylactery does.)  The phylactery should be considered an artifact, and the means of its permanent destruction should be determined by the DM.


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## Big Mac (Jun 8, 2008)

According to the *Total number of unconverted D&D creatures* thread Maztica is finished. And according to the *Pocket reference: Creatures from the Horde setting* thread there is only one Horde creature left. This one:



			
				BOZ said:
			
		

> Ambuchar Devayam/Tan Chin




So I think it is worth getting this one monster into the queue, so that this thread, the *Pocket reference: Creatures from the Horde setting* thread can be completed and 3rd edition can have two complete 3rd edition campaign settings.


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## Echohawk (Jun 9, 2008)

Big Mac, Ambuchar Devayam *is* the creature currently being converted in this thread! 

Here is how far the conversion has progressed so far.


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## Shade (Jun 9, 2008)

Updated.

Is the AC good enough, or do we want to add a profane bonus?

Skills: 8 at 19 ranks

Feats: 6

Organization: Solitary or x (probably some number of dowagu)

Treasure: Triple standard?  (He resides in a tomb of a rich fallen empire)


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## Big Mac (Jun 11, 2008)

Echohawk said:
			
		

> Big Mac, Ambuchar Devayam *is* the creature currently being converted in this thread!




Ooops. I think I missed the transition from the last monster to this one. Sorry for any confusion I caused.



			
				Echohawk said:
			
		

> Here is how far the conversion has progressed so far.




I never used the original, but the conversion is looking pretty good.

There is a bit of text linking this creature to other planes:

"Ambuchar Devayam spends most of his time in Solon in the Star Houses or the Ebony Temple, wherein his crystal phylactery resides. The Ebony Temple has portals to various unknown planes, and it is assumed that the unnamed plane upon which his essence resides can be reached there. It is said that acquiring four ebony artifacts of the Imaskari from these other planes, and tossing them into the Bottomless Pit of Fire in the Ebony Temple will destroy Ambuchar Devayam forever."

Given that the FRCS outer planes have been somewhat renamed, I wonder if this monster needs a sidebar that links this creature to planes mentioned on pages 256-258 of FRCS. The fact that the creature speaks Infernal, implies that it would travel to outer planes where Infernal is spoken.


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## freyar (Jun 13, 2008)

I think we still need to revise the Stamp ability.  Let's also given him the profane AC bonus (+4?) just to help him out a little if he loses some Dex while possessing someone.

Bluff?, Concentration, Intimidate?, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (history), Knowledge (the planes), Spellcraft, Use Magic Device?

Should we put something in the flavor that he has to bestow so many negative levels per week or return to his home demiplane?  I'm not so sure that we need to specify what planes he visits, since the original was pretty vague (I think the specific locations listed are actually in his "hometown" on Toril).


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2008)

Updated.

What revisions do we still need for the Stamp?


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2008)

That he "may place a dark tattoo upon a creature as long as he possesses some corporeal creature."  (As opposed to just "upon a creature he currently possesses.")

Feats: Did we decide that Spell Penetration and Spell Focus apply to SLAs?  Definitely Ability Focus (possession), since it's probably the most important thing for him.


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> That he "may place a dark tattoo upon a creature as long as he possesses some corporeal creature."  (As opposed to just "upon a creature he currently possesses.")




Will fix.



			
				freyar said:
			
		

> Feats: Did we decide that Spell Penetration and Spell Focus apply to SLAs?  Definitely Ability Focus (possession), since it's probably the most important thing for him.




Yes to the former, no to the latter.


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## freyar (Jun 17, 2008)

Ability Focus (possession), Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration, maybe Quicken or Empower some of those SLAs?

Should we think about bumping up his caster level any or should it always be tied to HD?


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## Shade (Jun 17, 2008)

Caster level can be higher (or lower).  Equal to HD is just the norm, but not the rule.  Wanna go to 20th?

We could add an ability which we've used before that allows him to apply the Quicken or Empower Spell-Like Ability to any SLA he possesses (still limited to 3/day total).  I forget which creatures we've given it to, but it should be fairly easy to reproduce.


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2008)

Let's go 20th CL since he should be a pretty powerful caster given his history.  As for the other ability, I think it's good, but, without Spell Focus, we might need to fill the feat slots with multiple Quicken or Empower SLAs.  Too bad there aren't other metamagic feats that apply to SLAs.


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## Shade (Jun 19, 2008)

freyar said:
			
		

> Let's go 20th CL since he should be a pretty powerful caster given his history.  As for the other ability, I think it's good, but, without Spell Focus, we might need to fill the feat slots with multiple Quicken or Empower SLAs.  Too bad there aren't other metamagic feats that apply to SLAs.




There are...they just aren't core.


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2008)

Well, can you think of another feat that's worthwhile for him?  Ability focus a second time?  Then we can just give him Quicken and Empower SLA and that special ability...


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## Shade (Jun 19, 2008)

How about Ability Focus (Frightful Strike)?

How does this look?

Spell-Like Abilities:  Ambuchar Devayam may use any spell from the necromancy school as a spell-like ability.  He may use each spell only once per day, but may apply his Empower Spell-Like Ability and Quicken Spell-Like Ability to up to three spell-like abilities each (caster level limits still apply).  Caster level 20th.  Save DCs are 15 + spell level.


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2008)

I like it.  

CR: I get the feeling he might be tougher than his HD.  What's your thought?

Organization: Solitary or Court (Ambuchar Devayam plus 2d6 dowagu and 4d4 5th-level necromancers and 4d4 5th level fighters?)


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## Shade (Jun 19, 2008)

Yeah, he's essentially a 20th-level spellcaster, just limited to the necromancy school, but with no need for components and the ability to theoretically use two per round in the first three rounds.

I'm thinking CR 18, at the very least.

Org looks good, although we could probably replace the fighters with random undead due to the Stamp.l


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2008)

Let's tentatively say CR 18 and see if anyone else pops in.  He does have a few good defenses beyond just hp, too.

Random undead is a great idea!


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## Shade (Jun 20, 2008)

So...

Organization: Solitary or Court (Ambuchar Devayam plus 2d6 dowagu and 4d4 5th-level necromancers and 2d6 random undead)?


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## freyar (Jun 20, 2008)

Sounds good.  Should we say up to a certain HD, like 10 HD each, for the random undead just to keep them under control?


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## Shade (Jun 20, 2008)

Better yet, how about simplifying to "20 HD of random undead"?


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## freyar (Jun 20, 2008)

Make it 20-30 HD, and I guess we're ok.


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## Shade (Jun 20, 2008)

Done.

Done?

And if done, this thread is done.


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## freyar (Jun 20, 2008)

Looks good to me! 

Not just this thread, this (sub)setting!


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## GrayLinnorm (Jun 20, 2008)

You haven't converted the morin (from "A Hoard for the Horde", later in MC11) yet.


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## Shade (Jun 20, 2008)

True.  It is in Bestiary of the Realms vol. 2, so it has been converted.

That's not to say we can't do our own conversion, though.


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## Big Mac (Jun 29, 2008)

Shade said:


> True.  It is in Bestiary of the Realms vol. 2, so it has been converted.
> 
> That's not to say we can't do our own conversion, though.




To convert, or not to convert. That is the queston.


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