# Elven Relationships



## Nine Hands (Dec 12, 2003)

OK.

I have this high level group in the Forgotten Realms composed of exclusively elves (actually its a prerequiiste to have the character be at least partly elven).  The character's are pretty diverse, the specific classes really have nothing to do with anything.

What I am looking for is people's opinions on elven relationships.  Courting, marriage, love interests outside of marriage, arranged marriages, etc.  Please keep this rated PG (not BOEF, its not needed in the game).

Basically, the way that I see elves is that they are so long lived that to settle down with a single mate is not always going to happen.  Being mostly chaotic in alignment means they will change thier mind over time.  But once committed, they may be committed for life.  Marriage becomes an institution to bind different families together and for sealing deals.  Affairs outside of marriage, while probably not a good idea are not looked down upon.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 12, 2003)

I think it ends up being just as diverse as Humans. You can have really any reaction you want based on general outlook on life and personality. I would definatly see them as being much slower to court, though. Probably just longer to do everything.


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## Tonguez (Dec 12, 2003)

Elfves have a very open and libetine approach to premarital sex and an elf will have a number of liasons throughout its lifetime. Gender is not an issue with Elves and intimate partners may be male or female (or other if thats possible in your world). For an Elf sex is simply an expression of intimacy with another creature and although most relationships are intraspecies cross species liaisons (especially with humans) are not uncommon.

Marriage between elves is political in nature designed to bind resources, and alliances between clans. In fact marriage partners need not even live together (instead remaining with their own respective clans) however there is a requirement that they have offspring in order to bind their relationship and this will require some intimate contact to occur.

Elves take heritage and geneaology very seriously and an individual elf is able to recite her heritage on both lines back a number of generations. One issue with Half-elves is that that human lineage is not recognised and thus half-elves gain their secondary 'incomplete' nature.


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## Queenie (Dec 12, 2003)

There was a really good article on elven relationships in Dragon magazine. It was in the issue that was devoted to elves. I don't know the number at the moment but can get it if you are interested.

I base my elven character around that article. It was very informative.


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## Hardhead (Dec 12, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I think it ends up being just as diverse as Humans. You can have really any reaction you want based on general outlook on life and personality. I would definatly see them as being much slower to court, though. Probably just longer to do everything.




I find that kind of booring.  I'd want something more different.  Not so humanlike.

The "Elves" issue of Dragon (don't remember the number) had an article about it.  I've lost that one now, but IIRC, it said that elves were more promiscuous than humans, until they found their soul-mate.  And they *always* knew who their soul-mate was, which they call a "thiramin."  Sometimes the feeling would develop over time, but most of the time they would see the another elf and instantly know that person was for them.  The feeling is reciprocated 99% of the time (literally; the article says 99% of the time).  

Sometimes, the thirmamin bond evaporates, but that's rare (and there are evil rites known to a few evil elves that can sever the bond).  The dissolution of the bond is 99% of the time felt by both as well.

Now *that* makes for interesting courting.  What would courting be like if you instantly knew someone you'd never even spoken to was your soul-mate?  What if you didn't get along that well at first?  You'd certainly have impetuous to work it out.  I think it's neat.

EDIT:  Reread article and corrected a mistake or two.


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## RuminDange (Dec 12, 2003)

I'd definitely go with either the Dragon Magizine for reference (#279 for those that forgot), as I use it a lot for reference and guiding my players in playing elves.  Also you could use the old 2E race handbook -- The Complete Book of Elves, to get from ideas.
Other resources I would recommend would be the Quintessential Elf (some good ideas and such) as well as the Moon Elves PDF.  I haven't used the later too much since it got lost on my hard drive for a while and found it while doing backups this week after my system hard crashed, and only recently gotten the Quin.Elf.

RD


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## Hypersmurf (Dec 12, 2003)

I recently brought back an elven character I'd played in an earlier campaign for a campaign set some decades later (same setting, same DM).

I had three pieces of information to work from:

1. When I'd last played the character, he'd just entered into a serious relationship with a childhood sweetheart.
2. The new campaign was set a long time after the first, but,
3. ... since the new campaign was for characters of a similar level to the last, I had to account for why he hadn't gained any experience in all that time.

It all came together nicely... I figured some time not long after the end of the last game, the girl had changed her mind... and the character had spent forty or fifty years moping about it 

One of his friends finally had enough of it, and kicked him until he snapped out of it... about the time the new game started.

Man, post-dump blues must suck on an elven timescale...

-Hyp.


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## yangnome (Dec 12, 2003)

> What I am looking for is people's opinions on elven relationships. Courting, marriage, love interests outside of marriage, arranged marriages, etc. Please keep this rated PG (not BOEF, its not needed in the game).



The BOEF has a good PG answer to your question, but since you don't want an answer from the BOEF...


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## I'm A Banana (Dec 12, 2003)

Elves IMC are great lovers of beauty, but far to chaotic to settle into monogamy easily. They like to boink, and boink a lot, and boink some pretty weird things, but these unions rarely produce children. Elves are only fertile once a month (both males and females) though, and they can feel it coming a mile away. If they don't want to get it on, they loose themselves in some artistic performance (just as good for 'em). Otherwise, they seek out another elf for the gettin'-it-on-athon. Because of their appreciation of absolute beauty, however, gender is quite flexible...elves are perfectly happy enjoying a beautiful member of their own gender (equal to the opposite, though no kid comes out of it).

Being chaotic, they lack much of an ability to comit at all. Two elves will raise an elven infant, but as soon as the toddler's wandering off, it becomes more of a community effort, or an 'every elf for himself,' and the confines of a family are not defined by a mother-father-offspring relationship, it's two caregivers who may not be biologically related to the child, and may be having dalliances with any number of other partners, but who are nonetheless instinctively bound to assist the infant to some age of competence. Elven comitment otherwise lasts only as long as they are vaguely interested in their mate, and even that isn't a monogamous thing.

I think the 'soul mate' idea is a nice way of allowing a human notion of a stable family to thrive amongst elves, but I see no need for elves to have any desire whatsoever for a stable family. Indeed, stability is boring, and stagnating, and paralyzing...if things don't change, they don't engage an elf's interest, and there's no real reason to keep persuing them. Naturally, elves tend to be impermanent, varied, and changable...I don't think that their love lives need to be any different.


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## Hypersmurf (Dec 12, 2003)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> Elves are only fertile once a month (both males and females) though, and they can feel it coming a mile away.




Once every seven years, innit?  

-Hyp.


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## I'm A Banana (Dec 12, 2003)

Is it? I made up the once a month figure (linking them to the moon and such)...seven years could be fun, though. ^_^


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## Pseudonym (Dec 12, 2003)

I guess that would depend upon te particular type of elf.  Wood and Moon elves would be more for the free love angle, but Sun elves would have more care for choosing their mates, even for a random fling.  Marriage for a political/family reason, or to preserve a bloodline would run into conflict with their inherent chaotic nature, though some may go along with it while resenting being forced into the situation.


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## Voadam (Dec 12, 2003)

Nine Hands said:
			
		

> OK.
> 
> I have this high level group in the Forgotten Realms composed of exclusively elves (actually its a prerequiiste to have the character be at least partly elven).  The character's are pretty diverse, the specific classes really have nothing to do with anything.
> 
> ...





Forgotten realms has pretty detailed elven sub-races and cultures, what types of elves are they and where are they from? The campaign setting, races of faerun, and older elven products such as 2e Cormanthyr, etc. should give some "official" guidance.


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## Storminator (Dec 13, 2003)

Listen to the nice posters, Nine Hands...

Promiscuous, uncommited, various partners, possibly exotic partners, hmmm. And by their other advice, maybe Thaleles needs to watch himself!

PS


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## Elder-Basilisk (Dec 13, 2003)

This really depends upon the elves you're talking about.

In FR, there are a variety of elven nations and peoples each with their own culture. If you're going for by the book FR, you should look up FR products to see their take.

In the latest incarnation of Dragon magazine elves are hypersluts fit to be found in the pages of a porn magazine or pay-to-view websites. They read the Abercrombie and Fitch quarterly for their relationship advice but think it's too tame.

Elfquest elves differ depending upon their culture but tend to look like anyone in a 1980's-90's romantic comedy (fall in love and sleep with each other quite readily but generally form more or less eclusive and more or less stable paired relationships) with one exception: recognition--a compulsion to reproduce with another elf that may or may not be a soul mate (some were but some were rather mismatched--as is evident in the plot). I mention this because it's probably the clearest description of a primitive, or wild elvish society and because the "thirmamin" idea sounds an awful lot like recognition only without the number of stories describing its effect and role in elvish society. If you want a thirmamin based elvish society, I'd look to Elfquest rather than elsewhere.

Tolkein's elves were seemingly more monogomaus and faithful than humans. Romance wasn't a huge portion of many of his stories but when it was, it followed that pattern--as do the genealogies and histories of the elves. 

Then again, Tolkein's elves were only chaotic in the (arguable) tendency towards arbitrary monarchic government--the rule of leaders rather than the rule of law. (And even that was less arbitrary than such arrangements tend to be among humans since the leader would regularly remain in power for thousands of years). Then again, most D&D elves don't seem very chaotic either in the way they behave--the Dragon description of elven sex practices is an exception rather than the rule.

If your DM isn't going by the book FR, I'd talk to him about picking one of the various interpretations and going with it. However, I'd be cautious about adopting the hyperslut model. To me, it smacks of nothing so much as thoughtless modern libertine utopianism and running into free love communes in the middle of a magical renaissance/medieval society tends to ruin verisimilitude. (As does the idea that a stable and advanced society can be created with such mores). Removing the expectation of faithfulness also reduces the possibilities for dramatic tension rather than enhancing it. The love triangle is dramatic because the whole group simply going at it together is not an option. Similarly the choice between two loves is dramatic because keeping both isn't generally an option. Even the stories of first and third wives, etc, fighting and competing depend upon a social structure and order that are absent in the Hustleresque fantasy of Dragon magazine.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 13, 2003)

Elder-Basilisk said:
			
		

> Tolkein's elves were seemingly more monogomaus and faithful than humans. Romance wasn't a huge portion of many of his stories but when it was, it followed that pattern--as do the genealogies and histories of the elves.




Ah ha! Yep. That's what I mostly use in my campaign, and I was trying to say earlier in the thread...but at the same time, some Elves will be more flighty. I just prefer this ultra-faithful idea. It seems to fit for me...


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 13, 2003)

I went the faithful rought in my games.  I found the description of elves to be more lawful and I went with that a bit.  I think they only got the chaotic good label because chaotic good is seen as cooler and elves are supposed to be cool.

   In my games elves usually marry for love, only the rich and powerful sometimes marry to unite families.  And when they do marry they almost always stay faithful and together for life.


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## Afrodyte (Dec 13, 2003)

*things you might wish to consider; sorry for length*

I am glad you brought this topic up.

If you want to avoid making elves just "pointy-eared humans," but also want to avoid making arbitrary decisions about their intimate relationships, there are a number of issues you might want to consider.  Thinking beyond alignment and what the books tell you (for they can sometimes be unsuitable for your purposes), consider the following things:

1.  How do elves (or even a specific elven culture) define intimacy?  Is intimacy even possible?  If so, what does it take to get there?

2.  How do elves express intimacy?  Which do expressions do they most value?  How does society influence the expression of intimacy, for better or for worse?

3.  How does elven psychology differ from human psychology, and how does this express itself in more mundane situations?  

As an example, take the idea that an elf, due to his extraordinary longevity, will often take the time to do things like contemplate a leaf for years on end.  From there, you could extrapolate that elves have formidable powers of concentration and focus, which they bring to everything they do.  If even the most casual of interests, like contemplating leaves, receive this sort of devotion and care, how do they approach the things that matter most to them?  Would such a people be interested in flings or one-night-stands?  If so, would it really be out of a desire for novelty, or for other reasons?  What if they do so out of a means of self-discovery, learning about how they relate to themselves and other people at the deepest level?  What if their aloofness is learned from the school of hard knocks?  

4.  What is an elf?  Seriously.  People have so many definitions that a consensus on how they would/should behave in any given circumstance.  If you have a solid idea on what makes an elf an elf, the rest is easier to come by.  This is not easy, though, and probably very time-consuming.  Essentially, though, the guiding idea that "the physical forms of elves are manifestations of their spirits" should lead to different places than "elves are incarnations of aspects of nature" or "elves are spirits of primeval chaos."

When I set about answering these issues, I was amazed at how much material I got out of it, the depth and complexity of the thing, and I had barely touched the surface.  For me, at least, they proved far more satisfying than who was king in what year (or century) and what wars and battles were fought.  It gave me incredible insight into society and culture, and understanding why they do things the way they do.


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## Hypersmurf (Dec 13, 2003)

Elder-Basilisk said:
			
		

> However, I'd be cautious about adopting the hyperslut model.




[blink]

I had to read that a few times to be sure I wasn't being insulted 

-Hyp.


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## Kichwas (Dec 13, 2003)

If you presume a tendancy towards chaos and good coupled with very long life spans you might come out with something like what the Hippies were trying to ahieve in the sixties.


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## Thresher (Dec 13, 2003)

arcady said:
			
		

> If you presume a tendancy towards chaos and good coupled with very long life spans you might come out with something like what the Hippies were trying to ahieve in the sixties.




Yep
Hugs trees--------------check
Likes life----------------check
Funny 'shrooms---------check
Bad Art-----------------check
Bad music--------------check
Freedom----------------check
Dont listen to the man----check
Fell out of a Tolkien novel..... check

No wonder Orc's like hitting them a lot


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## I'm A Banana (Dec 13, 2003)

> If you presume a tendancy towards chaos and good coupled with very long life spans you might come out with something like what the Hippies were trying to ahieve in the sixties.




Indeed, this was my baseline...and I don't think it ruins verisimilitude any more than robo-golems, halfling-gypsies, and spikey armor. 

Indeed, I'll go on a little derailment to justify it. Feel free to ignore, but it could be interesting!

(hijack)
So, if elves are all about the free love and 'careless' intercourse, where does that leave their society? If they're all about chaos, how do they maintain cities? A language? Simple relations conducive to growing up mammalian?

Well, for the elves, it seems, this is all about instinct. Elves aren't naturalists just because they hug trees and boink dyrads (although....). They're naturalists because an elf has never really had a need to 'evolve' a technological sensibility that other races (especially dwarves and humans) have depended on to increase the quality of life. This means that elves are closer to a natural, impulsive way of doing things...they haven't had a need to organize governments, because their natural tendancy is to work together, help each other out, and defend against outsiders. Some say that this is, in fact, the origin of elvish arrogance. When your outlook is Chaotic, holding any one race above others is nearly blasphemy...it's putting a rigid heirarchy on a natural event. However, elves just simply prefer the company of other elves. It's probably got something to do with scent. With the "smell of metal" (excepting mythril) being abbhorent to an elf, it's no big surprise that races that use a lot of metal (humans and dwarves, especially in big, clinking armor) see less acceptance by elves...and at the same time, this explains why half-elves sometimes result. Humans can rid themselves of the stench of metal, but it seems even the wildest dwarf has something steel and iron about his scent.

Thus, they seem arrogant and haughty because they really just are distasteful of the smell of others, and instinctively bond with each other above all else (an adaptation so that the gene pool remains in the same general vicinity). It'd be like if you met someone who always smelled like a sewer...in fact, everyone with green eyes always smelled like a sewer....even if they were smashing blokes in every other respect, they're still stinky...and people with your color eyes, well, they spell like exotic spice and berries...

So, now that we know elves operate largely on instinct, where does this leave elvish society? Well, it turns out that elves have never really needed much of a system of governance or control over each other, largely because even the few self-proclaimed Elven Kings (and there are more than a handful of them) only command respect with the rest of the elves agree with him. It's like, if the king wants them all to start baking cookies in a tree, and the rest of the elves don't see the point, they simply won't. And the king, respective of their individuality, won't force the issue. So they don't end up cooking in trees. However, if the king mandates that all practice archery...well, that just makes *sense*....the most orderly elvish societies are often those that have just agreed on the most cases, and they're often actually closely related, no more distant than second-cousins, perhaps.

So, an elf is born...what happens? Well, after the parents finish gushing upon it at length (and this ceremony of 'birth' can literally last months, while they compose poems about life and beauty, divine the little tyke's name, and generally ooh and aaah), it is raised initially by the mother, and one other elf. Rarely more than one child is produced at a time, since (a) elves are not very fertile  creatures and (b) why try to produce another masterpiece so soon after the first? The mother, and usually the first other creature to see it's birth, feel an incredible urge to care for the young one. They see it as their own choice, but since it holds pretty universally, either all elves think suprisingly similarly, or there's something a bit biochemical about it. 

After the kid has been nursed (done on dew -- female elves don't lactate (they don't have enough body weight or extra energy storage ability for it), though neither do males...) to toddlerhood, his schooling and education fall squarely on his own shoulders, as his mom and "father figure" dance their own seperate directions. Due to the lack of nursing, baby elves don't develop the same mother-reliance and sense of matronly debt as most other mammals...their respect for parents is based entirely upon egalitarian determination of the parent's abilities...if their mom is a deadbeat, they're more than happy to call 'em on it, and try to associate with elves of better repute from an early age. The kid may be somewhat on his own, but he's kept within the elven community as much as possible. They often get their first military training here, as this is also the first part of their lives that they encounter true danger. While all elves feel a special protective desire for the scamps, they equally as strongly have the feeling of elvish noninterference, which leaves the kid to deal with his own problems until the last minute.

After the first few decades of life in the "trundle years," an elvish youth starts to gradually settle down, as puberty approaches. Coming of age is a long and involved process for an elf, as many elves see the youth as finally realizing their full potential to appreciate beauty. Beginning at about 50, and often lasting through their 80's, elves slowly become full elf-women and elf-men. They often start begining their trade at this point, becoming rangers, druids, bards, and, of course, wizards and sorcerers. The elvish wizard is largely a replacement for the technology and farming of the other humanoid societies...since many elves lead risky childhoods, more than a few have a level or two in  Wizard by the time they reach adulthood, and they put it to good use productively, making food and light, seeking knowledge, and exploring the world in front of them. By the time they are 100, they are often fully adult, though they're still considered younglings for another two to three decades after. 

Here is where they start expriencing the elvish inclination to associate with other elves, to bond with them, and share a community. Some, of course, don't develop this, and many of them go on to become adventurers in the world, delaying their 'maturity' for quick fame and money outside. 

Of course, all adult elves, no matter their location, feel the monthly draw of physical love. An elf's mental state often is akin to the moon, with them being dark and brooding during the new moon, a range of emotions in between, and finally exhuberant and peppy on the full moon, often resulting in throes of passion, and an excess of alcohol (especially to get rid of that 'stink of metal.') Elves are often promiscuous normally, sleeping with men and women of non-'stinky' type and appropriate size that mesh with them (e.g.: mostly only humans and other elves), and their senses of cleanliness and refinement are surpressed during this period, leading to more risky dalliances. Still, they respect choice most of all, and so several elves are happy to sit alone with little more than some privacy on this night, if no apt choices present themselves. Within a community, this monthly occasion is often celebrated with a spontaneous 'free day,' and elf men and women who live in close vicinity to each other tend to take on each other's timing cycles. This monthly cycle is produced by something akin to the menstral cycle in human women, though this extends to elf males as well (their production of their own reproductive part is quite a slow process, though they tend to have more potent seed, on average, than a human).

And what of providing for the community? Well, elves are gatherers by nature, and largely vegetarian (though the occasional feast may see some meat). They tend to live in trees that produce a lot of nuts or fruits, and gather many berries from the surrounding bushes. They are careful to plant the seeds again, often under the care of a local druid (and generally the bigger the forest, the more powerful the druid). Truly, this gathering seems to be the source of the elvish evolution of asthetic beauty...when flowers and scents and the bends of branches are your promise of food, it really pays to be able to see vibrant colors and small details. Elves who aren't leading stressful lives (read: who aren't adventurers) also tend to be able to live on less food than a normal human, reducing the stress on the local environment. However, odly, the less food an elf has access to, the more hungry they will tend to be. Much of this is likely pyschological -- it's easy to panic an elf.

Elves tend to work best in small enclaves. Not only does that mean that each individual can stand out in the crowd, but it also means that certain things that go along with high population densities (such as disease) are less prevalent in elven communities. Whether this lead to their low constitution, or whether their low constitution came first, is a chicken-and-egg sort of argument. Either way, less density = less disease = less Fortitude saves = less worry about suddenly succumbing to Filth Fever (though many adventuring elves get pretty ill their first few days out of the treetops). Their Dexterity enhancement seems to be a side-product of this, spacing lighter and frailer bodies with equally as strong muscles, enabling them to dodge an attack that other races would resist. Elves are the type of people you'd kill by slappin' on the back, but trying to slap them on the back can be a challenge in and of itself.

And as for the elderly in the community...well, an elf certainly respects knowledge (as their inclination to Wizardry woudl establish), and many elves who grow old also grow more distant and unapproachable. Donations of food and wine are braught in exchange for knowldge from the treetop domains of the village elders. This barter-schooling system works best with the young tykes and moppets of the elven village, ensuring that in their last days, the elven elderly are surrounded by the young bloods their great-grandchildren are rearing.

Economy? Well, when elves are concerned at all with money (which is only in the value of art it can buy them), they tend to export magical knowledge and rare forest herbs (supplied by their fey and druidic connections) in exchange for protection, a sacred zone of forest, and free travel through the domains they trade with. This is decided on a typically individual basis...if loggers come through, an elf may offer them a book of magic in exchange for preserving a certain section of forest. If an elf is stopped in travel, they'll often pop up with a medicinal herb from their homeland in exchange for passage.  An elf is rarely without a good or service to trade.
(/hijack)

I think it's a pretty good functionalist analyzation, anyway...


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## Dark Jezter (Dec 13, 2003)

Kamikaze Midget and Thresher, those two posts were excellent. 

Good thing I wasn't drinking anything, or I'd be wiping off my monitor right now.


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## Kichwas (Dec 13, 2003)

Kamikaze Midget said:
			
		

> So, if elves are all about the free love and 'careless' intercourse, where does that leave their society? If they're all about chaos, how do they maintain cities? A language? Simple relations conducive to growing up mammalian?



In Fahla (my home made setting) they don't have much of a society.

Elves are considered a wild race, like Orcs and goblins. Not civilized like humans, halflings, dwarves, kobolds, and hobgoblins.

Elves in Fahla are so chaotic that they've never been able to rise to the level of anything but nomadic hunter gatherers. Being intelligent they are able to use advanced tools and work wonders with natural materials - but they possess no forges, mines, stone quaries, farms, livestock, and other elements of 'civilization'.

Instead they live in the wilds and 'get in the way'. They may take a human or other creature captive, much like orcs do. But where Orcs will act like a cruel biker gang, the elves will act like a band of possesive hippies - until they get bored or their attention wanders and they forget the 'victim' is even there. They're also known to 'pleasure people to death' in their inability to understand the limits of other races (this is not just sexual, they could overindulge you in drink, food, or even sleep deprive you into madness or death).

Thus in some regions elves are hunted just as orcs are. This despite the fact that humans in Fahla are the result of elves and orcs interbreeding. Though that fact is not common knowledge it is not unknown either.


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## MrFilthyIke (Dec 13, 2003)

arcady said:
			
		

> In Fahla (my home made setting) they don't have much of a society.




I like your take on the Elf-Orc-Human relationship.


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## Nine Hands (Dec 13, 2003)

yangnome said:
			
		

> The BOEF has a good PG answer to your question, but since you don't want an answer from the BOEF...




I will take a look at the book when I go to the game store tonight to game.  I just can't own that thing with 4 kids in the house.

Thanks for the info


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## Nine Hands (Dec 13, 2003)

Elder-Basilisk said:
			
		

> This really depends upon the elves you're talking about.
> 
> In FR, there are a variety of elven nations and peoples each with their own culture. If you're going for by the book FR, you should look up FR products to see their take.
> 
> ...




Interesting.  I read the Dragon Magizine articles and they did not suit me well.  Also since I am the GM, I call the shots 

At the same time I am not going to be making major changes and ordering characters to behave in a certain manner.  The group is having too much fun with the whole situation, which Storminator basically started.


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## Vadania (Dec 13, 2003)

I made Dragon 279 required reading for anyone playing an elf in a game run by me.


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## Ferret (Dec 13, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Once every seven years, innit?
> 
> -Hyp.




I heard off of someone it was 4 years? Maybe we're getting how long they are pregnent mixed up with time between fertility.


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## Kichwas (Dec 13, 2003)

MrFilthyIke said:
			
		

> I like your take on the Elf-Orc-Human relationship.



I figured that if there are half-elves and half-orcs there should be some connection. So those people are actually 1/4-racers...

Elves and Orcs are the product of the same god having offspring with two different goddesses:

_Jacola and Lustrala through their couplings with the stag god produced the orcs and elves. These two races produced humans as outlined previously.

At first the gods were shocked and angry. They put many monsters into the world to wipe out humanity and give their children something else to focus on other than each other. Then they came up with their ultimate plan: Halflings._

When I -update- the world before I run it again, I plan to rename those deities.

Jacola: The Destroyer. Seeker of Wanton Abandon.
Lustrala: Goddess of Womanly Love and Sexuality.
The Stag: God of male Sexuality and Power.

Polytheistic mythology tends to be very focused on 'carnal issues', so I worked that into Fahla's mythos as well.

As for halflings, they were designed to fill the same ecological niche as human, but be faster and smaller so they could outrun predators better...

However the two found each so similar in temperment and needs that they got along and together formed civilization, and later religion. The plan of the gods not only backfired but the humans managed to get the gods to be dependant upon them, moving them from the enemy of the gods to their 'favored grandchildren'...


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## Hardhead (Dec 13, 2003)

arcady said:
			
		

> I figured that if there are half-elves and half-orcs there should be some connection. So those people are actually 1/4-racers...




Actually, the reason is that the only half-races in Middle-earth were half-elves and orcs, and D&D inherits a lot from Tolkein.    Though, of course, if you don't want to use something like that, a new mythology is required.

In Middle-earth, both humans and elves were the crations of Manwë, essentially the over-god of Tolkien mythology.  Dwarves were the creations of a "regular" god (Manwë was upset at first, but eventually embraced them, but they were never destined for racial greatness because of this).  No one really knows where Halflings came from - it's not addressed in any of Tolkien's published works.

Anyway, because humans and elves were the two children of Manwë, they could breed.  Orcs were once elves, loooooong ago who were captured tortured, and corrupted by Melcor (also spelt Melkor on occassion, especially in the Silmarillion), the main evil god.  Since orcs were still kinda-sorta elven, they could breed with humans too.  You could probably assume that elves could breed with orcs too, but it never happened, becuase an elf would never consent, and neither would an orc (they hated elves so much, they'd never even think of touching them except to kill them).

Anyway, dunno if that's useful or not.  Obviously, if you don't want to adopt a Tolkein-esque mythology behind humans/orcs/elves, then you'd have to come up with something else.  Just thought you might want to know.


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## Storminator (Dec 14, 2003)

Manwe (how do you do the umlaut thingy?) was one of the regular gods. Iluvatar was the over god. All else as you say it...



			
				Hardhead said:
			
		

> Actually, the reason is that the only half-races in Middle-earth were half-elves and orcs, and D&D inherits a lot from Tolkein.    Though, of course, if you don't want to use something like that, a new mythology is required.
> 
> In Middle-earth, both humans and elves were the crations of Manwë, essentially the over-god of Tolkien mythology.  Dwarves were the creations of a "regular" god (Manwë was upset at first, but eventually embraced them, but they were never destined for racial greatness because of this).  No one really knows where Halflings came from - it's not addressed in any of Tolkien's published works.
> 
> ...


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## Hardhead (Dec 14, 2003)

Storminator said:
			
		

> Manwe (how do you do the umlaut thingy?) was one of the regular gods. Iluvatar was the over god. All else as you say it...




It's been a while since I read the Silmarillion.  

You do the umlat thing by holding down alt and hitting 235, then letting up on alt.  There's a of other nonstandard characters with their own alt-codes here: http://tlt.its.psu.edu/suggestions/international/accents/codealt.html.

If you're on a Mac, it's a bajillion times easier to remember.  Hold down command and alt and hit u.  Then, hit the letter you want an umlat over (the other accent characters, like accents and tildes are done the same, except tied to different letters, such as e (accent) or n (tilde) if I remember correctly; I don't have a Mac handy at the moment).


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