# A few questions on the basics...



## sirwmholder (Jul 7, 2006)

I recently bought the EoM bundle and think it's a wonderful product.  However I still need some assistance to better understand parts of the system.

Under the Mage it allows you to exchange your level 1 starting moderate boon for two minor boons... both of which could be bonus feats... bonus feats list: metamagic, item creation, and traditional feats.  Would mage feats fall under this category?  It doesn't say so but under mage feats it list itself as a bonus feat for mages and other spellcasters.  Slight contridiction... also can is this exchange only at level one or can a Mage exchange his level 4 moderate boon for 2 minor boons also and so on?

Another question I was having... If a mage has the feat Arcane Mastery can a named spell from a spellbook become a mage's signature spell if he knows all of the spell list involved even though the MP cost is above his normal limit therefore forgoing the check for successfully casting that spell?

Along the same lines... if a Mage has successfully cast a ritual alone and makes that ritual his signature spell ritual can it be quickened?  If so would it take a standard action to cast or a free action? And is there any penalty for spending more MP on a single spell than your limit.  I was thinking of exhustion... maybe some subduel damage for channeling too much energy...

Thank you for your time,
Wm. Holder


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## Primitive Screwhead (Jul 8, 2006)

Welcome to the wonderful world of EoM!

And I am glad you found this forum as the place to post such questions 

Question #1: 1st level boon. It is important to note that you are not 'trading in' the Moderate boon for 2 minor boons. It is a choice at 1st level. Future levels you get one boon and can select from the list at the power level indicated or below.
   Mage feats specifically are not included in minor boon ability. If you look at the Mage Knight table you will see bonus feats granted. Not quite a contradiction as a poor choice of names of the minor boon ability. Probably should read "Additional Feat"

Question #2: Arcane Mastery: Preparing spells from spellbooks works a bit differently than normal spellcasting. You actually 'cast' the spell in advance, spending the MP as required, then you use a standard action to 'release' the spell. In order to learn the spell as a signature spell, the normal rules still apply.. meaning MP casting limits and knowing the spell lists.

Question #3: Ritual Magic also works a bit differently. You cannot learn a ritual spell as a signature spell. 

Underpining question seems to be 'what is a signature spell?'
 A mage selects a limited number of spells each day as signature spells. These can change from day to day or stay the same for months. Either way, each signature spell is a spell that the mage could normally cast. Meaning apply the MP cap and required to know the spell lists involved..
 They are really balancing factors against the extremely open options for spell casting. The mechanic of signature spells means a DM {and player} usually don't have issues with a mage creating a spell mid combat...which could take some time.


Regarding fatigue/drain for 'overcasting'.. check a couple threads down for a discussion on removing the MP pool, instead relying on caster checks and fatigue... 

Caveat: I may be off track on this stuff, Ranger Wicket or Genshou will probably be here to correct me pretty soon if I am


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## genshou (Jul 9, 2006)

Primitive Screwhead said:
			
		

> Question #1: 1st level boon. It is important to note that you are not 'trading in' the Moderate boon for 2 minor boons. It is a choice at 1st level. Future levels you get one boon and can select from the list at the power level indicated or below.
> Mage feats specifically are not included in minor boon ability. If you look at the Mage Knight table you will see bonus feats granted. Not quite a contradiction as a poor choice of names of the minor boon ability. Probably should read "Additional Feat"



I always thought that was just a goof on Ryan's part.  It makes more sense to allow the Mage feats than not to.  Let's see what he has to say about it, though.



> Question #2: Arcane Mastery: Preparing spells from spellbooks works a bit differently than normal spellcasting. You actually 'cast' the spell in advance, spending the MP as required, then you use a standard action to 'release' the spell. In order to learn the spell as a signature spell, the normal rules still apply.. meaning MP casting limits and knowing the spell lists.



That's absolutely right.  Just because a feat allows you to prepare a spell of higher MP cost than your MP limit, that doesn't mean the same restriction on signature spells is lifted.



> Question #3: Ritual Magic also works a bit differently. You cannot learn a ritual spell as a signature spell.



That's correct, but I believe the OP was referring to the Signature Ritual feat (Lyceian Arcana, pg. 149).  Since the feat specifically states that the spell must be cast as a single-caster ritual successfully first, and that it is considered a signature spell but explicitly requires a two-round casting time, I would either disallow it or allow it with restrictions.

When you first cast the ritual, it must have possessed the Quicken Spell enhancement for a non-signature spell, even though that quickening didn't have any effect on the time taken to cast the ritual.  Thereafter as a signature ritual, it would still require the Quicken Spell cost for a non-signature spell.


> Caveat: I may be off track on this stuff, Ranger Wicket or Genshou will probably be here to correct me pretty soon if I am



You forgot *RuleMaster*


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## Primitive Screwhead (Jul 9, 2006)

And *Kemrain* too.. but I haven't seen/heard from her recently.... kinda miss her silly taglines.. 

But on topic... Question #3.. wasn't aware of that feat  {and its on page *49*}
 I would not allow a quickened ritual signature spell to be any faster, the text specifies a two-round casting and that makes a balanced kind of sense.

I get back into a game soon, and get to play my shadow construct summoner.. really looking forward to it. But I think ritual spells will stay out of play for now.


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## genshou (Jul 9, 2006)

Primitive Screwhead said:
			
		

> And *Kemrain* too.. but I haven't seen/heard from her recently.... kinda miss her silly taglines..



I haven't seen her for a while either.  I never knew she was an EoM Expert. 


> But on topic... Question #3.. wasn't aware of that feat  {and its on page *49*}






> I would not allow a quickened ritual signature spell to be any faster, the text specifies a two-round casting and that makes a balanced kind of sense.



That's how I was thinking too, but I offered an alternative in case that answer didn't appeal to the OP.


> I get back into a game soon, and get to play my shadow construct summoner.. really looking forward to it. But I think ritual spells will stay out of play for now.



Rituals are awesome.  They're too hard to pull off to make them useful mid-combat, so there shouldn't be a problem with them.

Have fun with that shadow construct summoner, though!  I hope to see some stats.


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## sirwmholder (Jul 10, 2006)

Thank you all so much.  I think I'm getting the hang of this now and I have designed a few spells... though I may have more questions in the near future.  A question on etiquette though... should I post my new questions here or start a new thread?

Thank you again for your time,
Wm. Holder


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## Primitive Screwhead (Jul 10, 2006)

Creating new threads make it easier to search for them later... there is an old thread that went over 6 pages with lots of good questions..but digging through the entire thread is a bit cumbersome. 

I would say any question that rises from the answers should stay in this thread, that way people can follow the entire trail to see how we got where we went. I have gotten in the habit of saving word documents of the ideas I like with a link to the thread at the start...



genshou, check in the HR forum for 'Justin Coopers Shadow Spawn'... I have my base spells and constructs in there


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## sirwmholder (Jul 14, 2006)

genshou said:
			
		

> Primitive Screwhead said:
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It looks as though genshou is correct... sniped from an e-mail I sent Ryan...

Oh, it was definitely an error. I'm amazed I missed it. Mages can take mage feats for their bonus feats, yes. 

Ryan Nock 
RPG Line Developer - E.N.Publishing  


---Original Text---
Under the Mage it allows you to choose a bonus feat as a minor boon... bonus feats are listed as: metamagic, item creation, and traditional feats. Why aren't Mage Feats listed here?  The reason I ask is the Mage nor the other Spellcasting classes specifically gain Mage Feats... though Mage Feats are listed as being bonus feats to Mages and other Spellcasters. I can see an argument going both ways on this so I was curious if it was just an oversight or a balance judgment call. 

Thank you for your time, 
Wm. Holder


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## genshou (Jul 16, 2006)

sirwmholder said:
			
		

> It looks as though genshou is correct... sniped from an e-mail I sent Ryan...
> 
> Oh, it was definitely an error. I'm amazed I missed it. Mages can take mage feats for their bonus feats, yes.
> 
> ...



I've read this email before, I think.  Did you post it to another thread in the past?


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## sirwmholder (Jul 18, 2006)

genshou said:
			
		

> I've read this email before, I think.  Did you post it to another thread in the past?



No, though it is a revision of question one in my first post .


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## genshou (Jul 23, 2006)

Maybe it was just an email with the same topic, then.  Hrmm.


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