# Permanent Portable Magnificent Mansion?



## RUMBLETiGER

I've found some things on this topic while flexing my Google-fu muscles, however nothing I'm satisfied with.  

it does not have to be based off of the _Mordenkainen's Magnificent Mansion _spell, but I do want to pick your collective brains for ideas on how one would make a portable home where one could keep personal items, maintain constant air/comfortable environment, have some semblance of a room with furniture and carry it around without a spell duration ending.  

I can just toss in Eternal Wands for things like _Unseen Servant_, _Create Food and Water_ and so on.  I just need comfy and air.  

Bonus points for keeping it as cheap as possible.


----------



## Greenfield

So you're looking for a Winnabago?  

Consider simply getting a wagon, of master worked quality, and fixing it up like a Gypsy caravan.  And a provisions chest (MIC) for food, and the wands you mentioned for servants and you're there.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Greenfield said:


> So you're looking for a Winnabago?
> 
> Consider simply getting a wagon, of master worked quality, and fixing it up like a Gypsy caravan.  And a provisions chest (MIC) for food, and the wands you mentioned for servants and you're there.




I was hoping for something slightly more portable, perhaps fit in a pocket, something you could take into a dungeon crawl.  A _Rope Trick_ that lasts, on steroids.  Perhaps more square footage floor space, but while I'm thinking the larger the better, I don't have a particular dimension in mind.  

A Portable Hole, with constant air, hopefully slightly bigger than fitting just an armchair surrounded by circular bookshelves (although now that I say that out loud, that'd not be too bad.  Like living at the bottom of a very comfy well.)

Is there a spell or magic item that permanently creates clean air within a space?  Not a Bottle of Air, since that does not come out of the bottle unless you put it to your mouth.  Again, bonus points for it being cheap.


----------



## kitcik

RUMBLETiGER said:


> I was hoping for something slightly more portable, perhaps fit in a pocket, something you could take into a dungeon crawl. A _Rope Trick_ that lasts, on steroids.
> 
> A Portable Hole, with constant air, hopefully slightly bigger than fitting just an armchair surrounded by circular bookshelves (although now that I say that out loud, that'd not be too bad. Like living at the bottom of a very comfy well.)




You need the Hat of Opulent Domicile from Hackmaster.


----------



## anest1s

We got a wagon too...it is *4 bigger than a normal wagon though. It isn't finished yet, but it when finished it will have 3 secret exits, emergency break, anchors (in case the breaks fails), lockable murder holes, periscope, a sushi bar, a magic lab, camo suits (for the wagon), portable spike walls (to prevent ppl from climbing up our roof), reinforced walls and wheels, a pair of magical horses and finally a "unconscious driver alarm" in case our driver gets unlucky. 



(And a cage for our prisoners, obviously. )


Edit: I forgot the door bell


----------



## Samloyal23

kitcik said:


> You need the Hat of Opulent Domicile from Hackmaster.




Got stats for that?


----------



## Greenfield

RUMBLETiGER said:


> I was hoping for something slightly more portable, perhaps fit in a pocket, something you could take into a dungeon crawl.  A _Rope Trick_ that lasts, on steroids.  Perhaps more square footage floor space, but while I'm thinking the larger the better, I don't have a particular dimension in mind.
> 
> A Portable Hole, with constant air, hopefully slightly bigger than fitting just an armchair surrounded by circular bookshelves (although now that I say that out loud, that'd not be too bad.  Like living at the bottom of a very comfy well.)
> 
> Is there a spell or magic item that permanently creates clean air within a space?  Not a Bottle of Air, since that does not come out of the bottle unless you put it to your mouth.



One of those oddities of D&D:  You can put one Portable Hole inside another.  And it doesn't have to be on the floor.

You could get three others at the bottom, radiating out like spokes from a hub.  For a human they'd be cramped quarters, but for a Gnome of Halfling they'd be fine.  Even an Elf or Dwarf could manage all right.

And I do recall at least one item that provides a person with air on a constant basis.  A Necklace of Adaptation does it for one, and I believe there's a Bottle of Air in one book or another, sort of a Decanter of Endless Water but for a different element.

A Rod of Splendor can create a pavilion tent, complete with food and servants and opulent furnishings, though that function only works once per week.

Whatever form it finally takes, make sure in includes Restful Bedroll quality beds.

In our games we allowed for a lower level of the _Magnificent Mansion_ spell.  The effect is the same as the original, but instead of it being an extra dimensional space the _Grand Estate_ spell creates a structure on the same plane as the caster.  It's a force construct with an appearance and form specified by the caster, up to the normal volume limits.  It's one level lower, and you give up the invisible entrance that only the caster can open, and the unassailable nature of being on another plane.


----------



## anest1s

If you go with the portable hole/bag of holding route, you should check the enveloping pit from the MiC too.

Also, you can build an actual tower somewhere, and have a ring of teleport to tower x/day


(We have a Samurai, who wants to put ranks on cooking, for making sushi...we also hold sushi parties sometimes  )


----------



## Samloyal23

Hmm... You could enchant a blanket with a permanent Mansion portal then just roll it up and strap it to your pack like a bedroll. It just needs to be big enough to form a portal you can walk through. So long as the door is "open" air comes in even though nobody outside sees anything but a blanket on the ground. Also, if it is big enough on the inside if the portal is sealed it will still take a long time to run out of air. Pack a crystal ball and you can monitor what happens outside. No reason you cannot enchant it with some amenities, like a permanent unseen servant in every room. You could even enchant the blanket as a carpet of flying. One party member pilots the lot of you and all your horses and henchpersons to your destination while you lounge around...


----------



## James the Newbie

Build yourself a nice building in any cheap way you like.

Use permanent shrink item cast by an 11th level for 1500 xp to make this 1/4000th the size. so if you build 400 feet in every direction, you now have just over an inch by inch cube to carry with you and expand at will.

Just make sure nothing in the building is magic, and see if your dm is ok with the idea of a building being one thing (If you dm is open to discussion raise the point a weapon with a wooden handle and a metal blade is one thing, in the same way a home with its furnishings is, so long as everything is in contact its all technically one thing, the spell itself should function ok)

Then make it cloth like and your set to go.

that would be 75000 + a house (Probably 5000 for a really big nice one) so 80000 if you don't mind that most of your furniture is bolted to the floor.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

James the Newbie said:


> Build yourself a nice building in any cheap way you like.
> 
> Use permanent shrink item cast by an 11th level for 1500 xp to make this 1/4000th the size. so if you build 400 feet in every direction, you now have just over an inch by inch cube to carry with you and expand at will.
> 
> Just make sure nothing in the building is magic, and see if your dm is ok with the idea of a building being one thing (If you dm is open to discussion raise the point a weapon with a wooden handle and a metal blade is one thing, in the same way a home with its furnishings is, so long as everything is in contact its all technically one thing, the spell itself should function ok)
> 
> Then make it cloth like and your set to go.
> 
> that would be 75000 + a house (Probably 5000 for a really big nice one) so 80000 if you don't mind that most of your furniture is bolted to the floor.



This is definitely an option I'd consider.  personal magical and significant items can be carried in extradimensonal bags, furniture built into the home itself.  

At 2 Cubic Feet per level, at level 11 minimum, what level does one need to be to make a 400 feet in every direction building under the effects of this spell?  My math is crappy, but methinks this is far into the Epic range.  How much space does 22 Cubic feet cover?

Sounds like Daerns Instant Fortress is cheaper and accomplishes the same thing, but I like this kind of thinking.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

anest1s said:


> If you go with the portable hole/bag of holding route, you should check the enveloping pit from the MiC too.
> 
> Also, you can build an actual tower somewhere, and have a ring of teleport to tower x/day



I'm considering options for my level 11 NG Factotum, I can't meet the alignment restriction.  See, at level 10, he took a break from the adventuring thing, did a stint at Mathghamhna teaching a course on Aberration Handling, than took a year to create his own fortress in the side of a cliff.  After that interesting sabbatical (Which I'm writing for fun as a very lengthy journal, I may post it up sometime), he's returning to adventuring at level 11, but has become rather spoiled by having the comforts of home and would like to bring it with him.

The teleport idea is a very good one.  I've considered a _Word of Recall_ item plus a Greater Platform of Jaunting from Stronghold Builders Guide to come and go as one pleases from home to anywhere on the Material Plane.  Platform of Jaunting provides limitless Teleportation one way, bringing up to 850lbs of materials.  This nifty feature comes at a whopping 76,500gp (38,250gp and _Greater Teleport_ to make it himself) and waaay outside the price and spell range for my level 11 PC.

Additionally, Strongholder's Builders Guide has Wondrous Architecture enchantment called Chamber of Comfort, that keeps a room airy and a comfy 70 degrees.  7500gp.  This would accomplish the constant air, if there are no cheaper options.  Cheaper than a Necklace of Adaptation.

While my Factotum is to low a level to cast _Plane Shift_ needed to make a Portable Hole, I'd love to have him mutter and swear about how difficult it is to sew Phase Spider webs using strands of ether and beams of starlight.  He may instead shell out the cash to buy one, then design an elaborate wooden loft as a 6' diameter, 10' high cylinder using his 1 Rank + 5 INT Mod + 11 Inspiration Craft (Woodworking) skill.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Samloyal23 said:


> Hmm... You could enchant a blanket with a permanent Mansion portal then just roll it up and strap it to your pack like a bedroll. It just needs to be big enough to form a portal you can walk through. So long as the door is "open" air comes in even though nobody outside sees anything but a blanket on the ground. Also, if it is big enough on the inside if the portal is sealed it will still take a long time to run out of air. Pack a crystal ball and you can monitor what happens outside. No reason you cannot enchant it with some amenities, like a permanent unseen servant in every room. You could even enchant the blanket as a carpet of flying. One party member pilots the lot of you and all your horses and henchpersons to your destination while you lounge around...



This would be very good, if I knew by RAW how to make the  _Mordenkain's Magnificent Mansion_ permanent, since the spell _Permanency _is very limited in it's applications.


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> This would be very good, if I knew by RAW how to make the  _Mordenkain's Magnificent Mansion_ permanent, since the spell _Permanency _is very limited in it's applications.




Crafting it as a wondrous item should be enough, unless your dm says otherwise...


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

One Option- Portable Hole Loft Appartment







Portable Hole loft.  Using Craft (Woodworking), Craft (Leather), Craft (Ceramics) and Craft (Sewing), my level 11 Factotum should be able to build this multi-level wooden cylinder with a +17 in each of these skills.  

Put 5' shelves mostly all around the walls for books and things (doubles as the ladder out), floor has storage space underneath, Bedding loft up top.  

Make a stone frame hearth by the wall at the feet of the armchair with a _Continual Flame_.  Keep a _Glowing Orb_ on the bed loft top on a shelf for lighting.

Build the entire assembly as normal, then drop it inside your Portable Hole!

Assemble for some 2 digit number worth of gold in wood and other materials.  Lets even call it 100gp.

Portable Hole- 20,000gp.

Chamber of Comfort enchantment (for air and a constant 70 degrees!)- 7,500gp.

Eternal Wand of Prestidigitation (cleaning the Chamber Pot)- 420gp.

Ruby Dust (For _Continual Flame_)- 50gp.

Total:  28,070gp for a portable loft apartment.  Much better than sleeping around a campfire exposed in the open woods!


----------



## James the Newbie

I kinda enjoy simple maths  And all this is a question of surface area, so it was a bit relaxing to do it ^_^
At 16th level you can shrink a total surface area of
32 foot by 32 foot by 32 foot, so you have 32768 foot of surface area.
_____


			
				Maths and stuff said:
			
		

> If one wall of your building is 100 foot long, 50 foot tall, and half an inch (0.12 foot) thick. It has a total surface area of 300 cubic feet.
> 
> By arranging these in a four by four grid you get 4*4 rooms so 16 rooms
> 
> This grid uses 40 walls so your surface area for a single floor is 300*40. This comes to 12000 cubic feet.
> 
> now to add the roof we need to have it 400 foot long, by 400 foot wide, by half an inch thick, so its surface area is 19200 foot
> 
> Add your 12000 to 19200 and you have 31200 feet
> 
> You now have 1568 cu foot of furniture, which I am sure your DM wont fuss over
> 
> This working has provided you with one floor that is fifty foot tall, four hundred feet wide and four hundred feet long containing 16 rooms (and no floor, though you can make your floor basically paper thin)
> 
> For my initial four hundred foot tall idea you would need 8 castings of the spell from a 16th level.
> 
> You can make the process cheaper by enlisting a lower level with caster level bonus' if you like, if you can find a way to get +5 caster level, then you can have an 11th level make it.




Basically it will cost you one casting from a 16th level wizard for a single floor or 8 castings for your 400 foot tall mansion

each floor gets 16 rooms, so your 400 foot tall mansion gets 128 rooms.


----------



## anest1s

Target: 		One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level

so at level 16 you can shrink an object up to 32 cu. ft.

I am not familiar with feets and cubic feets, but I think 32 cu ft aren't a 32*32*32 area, but 32 (1*1*1) cu fts.


----------



## kitcik

RUMBLETiGER said:


> One Option- Portable Hole Loft Appartment
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Portable Hole loft. Using Craft (Woodworking), Craft (Leather), Craft (Ceramics) and Craft (Sewing), my level 11 Factotum should be able to build this multi-level wooden cylinder with a +17 in each of these skills.
> 
> Put 5' shelves mostly all around the walls for books and things (doubles as the ladder out), floor has storage space underneath, Bedding loft up top.
> 
> Make a stone frame hearth by the wall at the feet of the armchair with a _Continual Flame_. Keep a _Glowing Orb_ on the bed loft top on a shelf for lighting.
> 
> Build the entire assembly as normal, then drop it inside your Portable Hole!
> 
> Assemble for some 2 digit number worth of gold in wood and other materials. Lets even call it 100gp.
> 
> Portable Hole- 20,000gp.
> 
> Chamber of Comfort enchantment (for air and a constant 70 degrees!)- 7,500gp.
> 
> Eternal Wand of Prestidigitation (cleaning the Chamber Pot)- 420gp.
> 
> Ruby Dust (For _Continual Flame_)- 50gp.
> 
> Total: 28,070gp for a portable loft apartment. Much better than sleeping around a campfire exposed in the open woods!




If you are lawful, use the Enveloping Pit (as mentioned perviously). Save 16,400 GP and get MORE space. MIC p 159.


----------



## Greenfield

James the Newbie said:


> I kinda enjoy simple maths  And all this is a question of surface area, so it was a bit relaxing to do it ^_^
> At 16th level you can shrink a total surface area of
> 32 foot by 32 foot by 32 foot, so you have 32768 foot of surface area.



Um... no.

The area for the spell is 2 cubic feet per caster level, not a cube of 2 feet per level on a side.


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Shrink Item
> Transmutation
> Level: Sor/Wiz 3
> Components: V, S
> Casting Time: 1 standard action
> Range: Touch
> Target: One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
> Duration: One day/level; see text
> Saving Throw: Will negates (object)
> Spell Resistance: Yes (object)
> You are able to shrink one nonmagical item (if it is within the size limit) to 1/16 of its normal size in each dimension (to about 1/4,000 the original volume and mass). This change effectively reduces the object’s size by four categories. Optionally, you can also change its now shrunken composition to a clothlike one. Objects changed by a shrink item spell can be returned to normal composition and size merely by tossing them onto any solid surface or by a word of command from the original caster. Even a burning fire and its fuel can be shrunk by this spell. Restoring the shrunken object to its normal size and composition ends the spell.
> Shrink item can be made permanent with a permanency spell, in which case the affected object can be shrunk and expanded an indefinite number of times, but only by the original caster.



Additionally, the permanent version can be shrunken and restored only by the original caster.

Now figure that a 10x10x10 room is 1000 cubic feet, requiring a 500th level caster.

Building your mansion this way is going to take a long time.

Using Widen Spell you could get by with a 68th level caster, but meta-magic feats don't stack with themselves so that's about as low as you can get.

And the idea of having the opening to a permanent _Magnificent Mansion_ set in a piece of cloth is a nice one, but as far as I know the opening isn't actually attached to anything normally.  It's a point in space.  If it happens to coincide with a piece of cloth (or any other solid object) that's a coincidence.  The item can move, but the opening will stay where it was, since its anchor is a point in space, not the object.

Now the _Shrink Item_ trick can work pretty well in other ways.  An iron wardrobe or large chest could be within capacity, and you could keep a pretty luxurious set of camping gear in there.  But it won't be what you want.

What you're looking for is an Instant Fortress.  Pricey, but you can open it anyplace you have the space.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

James the Newbie said:


> I kinda enjoy simple maths  And all this is a question of surface area, so it was a bit relaxing to do it ^_^
> At 16th level you can shrink a total surface area of
> 32 foot by 32 foot by 32 foot, so you have 32768 foot of surface area.






anest1s said:


> Target:         One touched object of up to 2 cu. ft./level
> 
> so at level 16 you can shrink an object up to 32 cu. ft.
> 
> I am not familiar with feets and cubic feets, but I think 32 cu ft aren't a 32*32*32 area, but 32 (1*1*1) cu fts.






Greenfield said:


> The area for the spell is 2 cubic feet per caster level, not a cube of 2 feet per level on a side.
> 
> Additionally, the permanent version can be shrunken and restored only by the original caster.
> 
> Now figure that a 10x10x10 room is 1000 cubic feet, requiring a 500th level caster.
> 
> Building your mansion this way is going to take a long time.
> 
> Using Widen Spell you could get by with a 68th level caster, but meta-magic feats don't stack with themselves so that's about as low as you can get.
> 
> And the idea of having the opening to a permanent _Magnificent Mansion_ set in a piece of cloth is a nice one, but as far as I know the opening isn't actually attached to anything normally.  It's a point in space.  If it happens to coincide with a piece of cloth (or any other solid object) that's a coincidence.  The item can move, but the opening will stay where it was, since its anchor is a point in space, not the object.
> 
> Now the _Shrink Item_ trick can work pretty well in other ways.  An iron wardrobe or large chest could be within capacity, and you could keep a pretty luxurious set of camping gear in there.  But it won't be what you want.
> 
> What you're looking for is an Instant Fortress.  Pricey, but you can open it anyplace you have the space.



That was my understanding.  22 Cubic Feet is not a single cube that is 22 feet on each side, but 22 cubes that total 1'x1'x1'.  Like a stack of smallish boxes.  This would be useful for storage, but not a residence.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

kitcik said:


> If you are lawful, use the Enveloping Pit (as mentioned perviously). Save 16,400 GP and get MORE space. MIC p 159.



Yeah, NG unfortunately.  The Enveloping Pit is pretty awesome.  10'x10'x50' would rock, that's like a small wizard's tower.


----------



## Greenfield

1st ed. was terrible at describing volumes.  The original _Transmute Rock to Mud_ had it's volume described as "2 inch cube per level", with "inch" meaning 10 feet.

The wording was so vague that it could mean a 20 foot cube per level, or a cube of 20 feet x level on a side.

That meant that a 10th level caster could transmute either a volume of 80,000 cubic feet or 8,000,000 cubic feet, depending on how you read it.  Either way, we referred to that one as "Slay Castle", since it didn't have the restrictions about worked stone.  

When The Sage wrote that that meant 2 1-inch cubes (an inch still meaning 10 feet), everybody scratched their heads.  80k cubic feet was the best reading, with 8 million being a stretch, but there was no way to read the description and come up with his answer.


----------



## anest1s

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Yeah, NG unfortunately.  The Enveloping Pit is pretty awesome.  10'x10'x50' would rock, that's like a small wizard's tower.




You could try to emulate an alignment with use magic device, if you don't roll a 1


----------



## kitcik

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Yeah, NG unfortunately. The Enveloping Pit is pretty awesome. 10'x10'x50' would rock, that's like a small wizard's tower.




Use that as a base to craft / buy one with a NG alignment restriction?


----------



## Samloyal23

Greenfield said:


> And the idea of having the opening to a permanent _Magnificent Mansion_ set in a piece of cloth is a nice one, but as far as I know the opening isn't actually attached to anything normally.  It's a point in space.  If it happens to coincide with a piece of cloth (or any other solid object) that's a coincidence.  The item can move, but the opening will stay where it was, since its anchor is a point in space, not the object.




Meh, I do not see any reason you cannot design a magic item that incorporates a _Magnificent Mansion _into its own structure. What is the real difference between that and a _Bag of Holding_? You are dealing with a magically generated transdimensional space in both cases. The item in effect _creates _the portal. Move the item and the portal moves. Without this ability you creating a HUGE limitation on the functionality of this spell and for what reason? A magic carpet with a built-in transdimensional mansion can be part cruise ship/part troop transport. Imagine how many soldiers could fit in one. What despot would not want one?


----------



## Luce

2e:
Bag of travel. Appears in Dungeon Magazine 78 in the adventure "Unexpected guests"

3e:
There was a magnificent mansion style doll house in Dragon magazines 299, page 66 "Wizard's toy box"


----------



## Samloyal23

OMG... Just had a thought... If you had a flying carpet troop carrier and a wand of _feather fall_, you could turn your soldiers into paratroopers. You could easily drop a squad of soldiers behind a castle wall or deep in enemy territory. With invisibility they could land unnoticed and start sabotaging the enemy before engaging in combat...


----------



## Gray Lensman

Samloyal23 said:


> Snipped.... A magic carpet with a built-in transdimensional mansion can be part cruise ship/part troop transport. Imagine how many soldiers could fit in one. What despot would not want one?




Posted at 3:52 PM



Samloyal23 said:


> OMG... Just had a thought... If you had a flying carpet troop carrier and a wand of _feather fall_, you could turn your soldiers into paratroopers. You could easily drop a squad of soldiers behind a castle wall or deep in enemy territory. With invisibility they could land unnoticed and start sabotaging the enemy before engaging in combat...




Posted at 5:33 PM

What took you so long.  
I got it when I first read the post.  
Or maybe it is just that you can take the Soldier out of the Airborne but you can't take the AIRBORNE out of the Soldier. 

Someone please XP this guy for me!


----------



## Samloyal23

Gray Lensman said:


> Posted at 3:52 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Posted at 5:33 PM
> 
> What took you so long.
> I got it when I first read the post.
> Or maybe it is just that you can take the Soldier out of the Airborne but you can't take the AIRBORNE out of the Soldier.
> 
> Someone please XP this guy for me!




Thanks, I appreciate it. Flying mansions have all kinds of uses, not just aerial either. A carpet full of troops would make a good trojan horse, too...


----------



## Greenfield

Samloyal23 said:


> Meh, I do not see any reason you cannot design a magic item that incorporates a _Magnificent Mansion _into its own structure. What is the real difference between that and a _Bag of Holding_? You are dealing with a magically generated transdimensional space in both cases. The item in effect _creates _the portal. Move the item and the portal moves. Without this ability you creating a HUGE limitation on the functionality of this spell and for what reason? A magic carpet with a built-in transdimensional mansion can be part cruise ship/part troop transport. Imagine how many soldiers could fit in one. What despot would not want one?



You can make a magic item, of course.  The spell, as written, however, doesn't lend itself to the plan suggested:  Make it Permanent with the entrance on a piece of cloth.

Now, as far as "create an item" is concerned, it already exists.



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Instant Fortress: This metal cube is small, but when activated by speaking a command word it grows to form a tower 20 feet square and 30 feet high, with arrow slits on all sides and a crenellated battlement atop it. The metal walls extend 10 feet into the ground, rooting it to the spot and preventing it from being tipped over. The fortress has a small door that opens only at the command of the owner of the fortress—even knock spells can’t open the door.
> The adamantine walls of instant fortress have 100 hit points and hardness 20. The fortress cannot be repaired except by a wish or a miracle, which restores 50 points of damage taken.
> The fortress springs up in just 1 round, with the door facing the device’s owner. The door opens and closes instantly at his command. People and creatures nearby (except the owner) must be careful not to be caught by the fortress’s sudden growth.
> Anyone so caught takes 10d10 points of damage (Reflex DC 19 half ).
> The fortress is deactivated by speaking a command word (different from the one used to activate it). It cannot be deactivated unless it is empty.


----------



## Samloyal23

Gray Lensman said:


> Posted at 3:52 PM
> 
> 
> 
> Posted at 5:33 PM
> 
> What took you so long.
> I got it when I first read the post.
> Or maybe it is just that you can take the Soldier out of the Airborne but you can't take the AIRBORNE out of the Soldier.
> 
> Someone please XP this guy for me!




Thanks, I appreciate it. Flying mansions have all kinds of uses, not just aerial either. A carpet full of troops would make a good trojan horse, too...


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

anest1s said:


> You could try to emulate an alignment with use magic device, if you don't roll a 1



Oh... this has Merit. Factotums rock the skill checks.



kitcik said:


> Use that as a base to craft / buy one with a NG alignment restriction?



It's an option, but I like to remain as RAW as possible, customizing things, even a little bit, somehow chafes me slightly.  Like I'm cheating somehow.  You Can See This Thread where I unsuccessfully attempted to develop a custom magic item.  Also, for [MENTION=94230]anest1s[/MENTION] and your suggestions, the fact that it's a relic connected with a deity makes me extra nervous to mess with.


Samloyal23 said:


> Meh, I do not see any reason you cannot design a magic item that incorporates a _Magnificent Mansion _into its own structure. What is the real difference between that and a _Bag of Holding_? You are dealing with a magically generated transdimensional space in both cases. The item in effect _creates _the portal. Move the item and the portal moves. Without this ability you creating a HUGE limitation on the functionality of this spell and for what reason? A magic carpet with a built-in transdimensional mansion can be part cruise ship/part troop transport. Imagine how many soldiers could fit in one. What despot would not want one?



Again, custom item chafing.  Nothing wrong with it, just my own personal problem I guess.


Samloyal23 said:


> OMG... Just had a thought... If you had a flying carpet troop carrier and a wand of _feather fall_, you could turn your soldiers into paratroopers. You could easily drop a squad of soldiers behind a castle wall or deep in enemy territory. With invisibility they could land unnoticed and start sabotaging the enemy before engaging in combat...



See My Pocket Airship.  Way to expensive for the purposes of this thread, but Awesome.


Luce said:


> 2e:
> Bag of travel. Appears in Dungeon Magazine 78 in the adventure "Unexpected guests"
> 
> 3e:
> There was a magnificent mansion style doll house in Dragon magazines 299, page 66 "Wizard's toy box"



I will definitely look this up.  Thanks.


Greenfield said:


> You can make a magic item, of course.  The spell, as written, however, doesn't lend itself to the plan suggested:  Make it Permanent with the entrance on a piece of cloth.
> 
> Now, as far as "create an item" is concerned, it already exists.



Daern's Instant Fortress rocks.  One of my players had one once, command word was "Ding Dong, The Witch Is Dead".  Good times.


----------



## Greenfield

As a note, a natural "1" doesn't auto-fail skill checks.  Put enough points into it and even a "1" will do the job.


----------



## Samloyal23

I am not a math person, does anyone have a rough idea how much a flying mansion could actually carry? Just what kind of military force could you pack into my magic carpet?


----------



## Greenfield

I'm a math person, sort of.

So let's start with the "given" points (many of which I disagree with.)

1) It's possible to create a permanent _Mage's Magnificent Mansion_ (it's not on the list of spells that can be made _Permanent_.)
2) It's possible to affix the opening to an item, like a flying carpet (nothing to support this in the spell description.)
3) Caster level is 13 (the minimum needed to cast the spell in the first place.)

If we accept those points as "Given", we get...  

At 13th level, the Mansion will have 39,000 cubic feet of space.  (3 10 foot cubes per caster level.)

The unanswered (and unasked) question in this is, how tight are you willing to pack those soldiers?

If we decide that the rooms will have 10 foot ceilings, and we're going to pack the soldiers one per 5 foot square, we get 4 men per 10 foot cube, times 39 10 foot cubes, and we get 156 men in your _Mansion_ spell.  That's 250 cubic feet per person, for 12 people per caster level, in case you were keeping track.

If we're willing to drop the ceiling height to 8 feet we get 48.75 10x10 squares, and our invasion force goes up to 195.  That's 200 cubic feet per person, or 15 people per caster level.

6 foot ceilings?  We can get 260 men in there.  That's 150 cubic feet per person, or 20 people per caster level.

The spell says that the air is always fresh and clean, so it might be claustrophobic, but it will work. 

If they're in there for a relatively short time, and can stand to be packed in like cattle you can quadruple those numbers.  Really claustrophobic, and God help us if someone farts. 

Now, more realistically, allowing for walkways, a place to sit or lay down and space for gear, you're talking 50 people.  That's allowing a cot and footlocker, plus space between.  Double-deck the bunks and you can almost double the number (foot lockers don't double-deck too well).

I wouldn't try to keep even that reduced number in there for any period of time.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Greenfield said:


> I'm a math person, sort of.
> 
> So let's start with the "given" points (many of which I disagree with.)
> 
> 1) It's possible to create a permanent _Mage's Magnificent Mansion_ (it's not on the list of spells that can be made _Permanent_.)
> 2) It's possible to affix the opening to an item, like a flying carpet (nothing to support this in the spell description.)
> 3) Caster level is 13 (the minimum needed to cast the spell in the first place.)
> 
> If we accept those points as "Given", we get...
> 
> At 13th level, the Mansion will have 39,000 cubic feet of space.  (3 10 foot cubes per caster level.)
> 
> The unanswered (and unasked) question in this is, how tight are you willing to pack those soldiers?
> 
> If we decide that the rooms will have 10 foot ceilings, and we're going to pack the soldiers one per 5 foot square, we get 4 men per 10 foot cube, times 39 10 foot cubes, and we get 156 men in your _Mansion_ spell.  That's 250 cubic feet per person, for 12 people per caster level, in case you were keeping track.
> 
> If we're willing to drop the ceiling height to 8 feet we get 48.75 10x10 squares, and our invasion force goes up to 195.  That's 200 cubic feet per person, or 15 people per caster level.
> 
> 6 foot ceilings?  We can get 260 men in there.  That's 150 cubic feet per person, or 20 people per caster level.
> 
> The spell says that the air is always fresh and clean, so it might be claustrophobic, but it will work.
> 
> If they're in there for a relatively short time, and can stand to be packed in like cattle you can quadruple those numbers.  Really claustrophobic, and God help us if someone farts.
> 
> Now, more realistically, allowing for walkways, a place to sit or lay down and space for gear, you're talking 50 people.  That's allowing a cot and footlocker, plus space between.  Double-deck the bunks and you can almost double the number (foot lockers don't double-deck too well).
> 
> I wouldn't try to keep even that reduced number in there for any period of time.



That's assuming the figures for Medium sized people, what if they're Halflings? =)

Or better yet, Warforged Scouts (Race, not class).  Warforged don't need cots, nor do they fart.

But I'm thinking for the most bang for your buck, get some sort of swarm.


----------



## Loren Pechtel

Greenfield said:


> 6 foot ceilings?  We can get 260 men in there.  That's 150 cubic feet per person, or 20 people per caster level.




Some people will be taller than 6'.  You need at least 7', especially if anyone is in armor.



> The spell says that the *air is always fresh and clean*, so it might be claustrophobic, but it will work.
> 
> If they're in there for a relatively short time, and can stand to be packed in like cattle you can quadruple those numbers.  Really claustrophobic, and God help us if someone farts.




Who cares about a fart?


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> That's assuming the figures for Medium sized people, what if they're Halflings? =)
> 
> Or better yet, Warforged Scouts (Race, not class).  Warforged don't need cots, nor do they fart.
> 
> But I'm thinking for the most bang for your buck, get some sort of swarm.




Warforged do not require air, food, or water, and do not have the emotional context to develop a need for "personal space". You could pack them in like sardines and they would not care...


----------



## Shaghayegh

Samloyal23 said:


> Warforged do not require air, food, or water, and do not have the emotional context to develop a need for "personal space". You could pack them in like sardines and they would not care...




Warforged could stand together in rows, you give them each a 3'x3' square. That would be a LOT of soldiers...


----------



## Samloyal23

Warforged standing in rows at attention for the full trip, I am thinking at least 400 soldiers and their gear. No mounts, just soldiers, weapons, ammunition, and light pack full of gear for each one. They never get tired, need no sleep, do not need to sit and rest, do not need air, do not go potty, do not need rations. Just give them some climbing gear and torches, plenty of spare arrows or sling bullets, and a self-repair kit. Pack them in tight formation and away you go...


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Warforged Scout

Small sized.  Ceilings are now 3' high.  Now how many can you pack in?


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Warforged Scout
> 
> Small sized.  Ceilings are now 3' high.  Now how many can you pack in?




I would think about 12-16 per 10 foot cube. You could pack in 200 without much trouble. Higher level caster can also enlarge the mansion. A guerilla force of 200 warforged scouts could literally drop in on enemy territory if you cast _feather fall _on each one while flying overhead. Pack their bags with smoke sticks, thunderstones, lots of flammables, and they can create panic over a wide swath of territory...


----------



## Greenfield

Okay, let's just run the numbers.  If you plan to pack them in "like sardines", leaving no aisles or walkways, and give each one a 3x3x3 cube...

3x3x3 = 27 cubic feet per soldier.

13 (caster level) x 3000 (3 ten by ten by ten cubes) = 39,000.

39,000 / 27 = 1,444.44444444

That's how many Warforged Scouts you can fit inside.

Now one could argue that, being small, they don't need a 3x3 footprint.  2.5x2.5 would do.

If that's the case then the figures are 2.5x2.5x3 = 18.75 cubic feet per soldier.

39,000 / 18.75 = 2080 soldiers in your mansion.


			
				Samloyal said:
			
		

> I would think about 12-16 per 10 foot cube. You could pack in 200  without much trouble. Higher level caster can also enlarge the mansion. A  guerilla force of 200 warforged scouts could literally drop in on enemy  territory if you cast _feather fall _on each one while flying  overhead. Pack their bags with smoke sticks, thunderstones, lots of  flammables, and they can create panic over a wide swath of territory...



Whether the number is 200 or 2000, I'd like to see the wizard that can cast that many _Feather Fall_ spells that fast.

As a note:   Rather than embedding the spell into the magic carpet, craft the entrance into a normal carpet you can lay on top of the regular one.

Now hang that one from the side of your carpet, so they can rush out paratrooper style.


----------



## SolitonMan

Would the spell Genesis be of use?  You could hire a wizard to cast it for you, which would cost 26,530 gp.  Less if you could find some way to offset the XP cost.  You could have it configured to your desired specs, then create a custom magic item to grant at-will access.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

SolitonMan said:


> Would the spell Genesis be of use?  You could hire a wizard to cast it for you, which would cost 26,530 gp.  Less if you could find some way to offset the XP cost.  You could have it configured to your desired specs, then create a custom magic item to grant at-will access.



It's the custom magic at-will item that's the trick.  How does one make a portable portal/gate to your demiplane?  
And as size goes for Genesis, you'd probably have more space with the _Magnificent Mansion_ spell at first.


----------



## Greenfield

Hmm.  A 17th level caster throwing _Magnificent Mansion_ would get 51,000 cubic feet of space (3 10x10 cubes per caster level, or 3,000 cubic feet times 17 levels.)

A 180 foot diameter sphere, per _Genesis_, would have Pi x 90 x 90 x 90 cubic feet, or 2,290,221.0054 cubic feet. (Formula for volume of a sphere is Pi x R cubed)

Taken as square feet (presuming a 10 foot ceiling), the _Magnificent Mansion_ would be 5,100 square feet.

Presuming the demi-plane was half full of solid matter, to provide a surface, _Genesis_ would make a circular area of 25,446.9006 square feet.

The _Genesis_ spell wouldn't arrange things as neatly or conveniently as the _Mansion_, but in terms of actual space it beats it hands down.


----------



## SolitonMan

Greenfield said:


> Hmm.  A 17th level caster throwing _Magnificent Mansion_ would get 51,000 cubic feet of space (3 10x10 cubes per caster level, or 3,000 cubic feet times 17 levels.)
> 
> A 180 foot diameter sphere, per _Genesis_, would have Pi x 90 x 90 x 90 cubic feet, or 2,290,221.0054 cubic feet. (Formula for volume of a sphere is Pi x R cubed)
> 
> Taken as square feet (presuming a 10 foot ceiling), the _Magnificent Mansion_ would be 5,100 square feet.
> 
> Presuming the demi-plane was half full of solid matter, to provide a surface, _Genesis_ would make a circular area of 25,446.9006 square feet.
> 
> The _Genesis_ spell wouldn't arrange things as neatly or conveniently as the _Mansion_, but in terms of actual space it beats it hands down.




Thanks for running the numbers, Greenfield.  But actually, the radius is 180 feet.    So the final number for volume would be 8 times bigger, if I'm remembering my math correctly (2*2*2 = 8).  I think this makes the area about four times bigger, which is even MORE ridiculously large for the intended purpose.

RUMBLETiGER, the item would be tricky, I agree.  But consider that even an at-will plane shift item would cost at a minimum 90,000 gp (5th level spell  X  9th level caster  X 2,000 gp) or 180,000 gp for a wondrous item that takes up no body slot.  That's a lot of gold, but in this case, you're not interested in making an item that allows the freedom of plane shifting to ANY plane - you just want to be able to go to one specific plane.  The DM would have to make a ruling, but if it were my game, that limitation would reduce the price by at least half, maybe more.  Add in the limitation that when you use this device to leave the plane, you return to the spot you left, and it's not completely unreasonable to reduce the cost further.  

The limitations would mean that you couldn't always effectively run away from an encounter by retreating to your plane, since your enemies could rally their forces and just wait you out.  Granted, you could spend a LOT of time in your plane should you so choose, but your enemies might scry you and plane shift after you if they have that level of resources.

This whole conversation now has me thinking of starting a business for a high-level wizard/real estate agent, where he sells private demiplanes instead of private islands.


----------



## Greenfield

You're right, I misread the area of the spell.

180 x 180 x 180 x 3.1415926 = 18,321,752.88 cubic feet.  Yeah, about 8 times bigger.

Area would be 101,787.60024, twenty times larger than the _Mansion_ spell.

Of course, it's a lifeless place, and it takes a week to cast and six months or so (180 days) to completely form. so you could spend a lot of years building up the inventory for that business you suggest.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

SolitonMan said:


> This whole conversation now has me thinking of starting a business for a high-level wizard/real estate agent, where he sells private demiplanes instead of private islands.



You'd have a very small, exclusive and high playing clientele, but there's be a niche for that.


----------



## Samloyal23

SolitonMan said:


> The limitations would mean that you couldn't always effectively run away from an encounter by retreating to your plane, since your enemies could rally their forces and just wait you out.  Granted, you could spend a LOT of time in your plane should you so choose, but your enemies might scry you and plane shift after you if they have that level of resources.
> 
> This whole conversation now has me thinking of starting a business for a high-level wizard/real estate agent, where he sells private demiplanes instead of private islands.




Do not forget, a demiplane can be given any set of features you like. You can even change the laws of physics and magic. You could make a plane where all native matter is a type of your liking, say Guinness, or chocolate. You could make a plane where anyone spends time there turns into a clone of Sophia Vergara. Or plane where only true name magic will function. Making a demiplane is the ultimate act of not just creation but of _creativity_...


----------



## jefgorbach

Samloyal23 said:


> Do not forget, a demiplane can be given any set of features you like. You can even change the laws of physics and magic.  Making a demiplane is the ultimate act of not just creation but of _creativity_...




True, especially if you tilt it moderately Positive and set the Time factor to 1 round:1 day allowing you to enter and return one round later fully rested and 24 hp Fast Healed (plus whatever actions taken within); a feature likewise greatly appreciated by your Crafters.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

jefgorbach said:


> ...a feature likewise greatly appreciated by your Crafters.



Until they die of old age 50 years to soon =).


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Until they die of old age 50 years to soon =).




It is your universe, you make the rules. Decide you can exit a portal to the same point in time that you entered it...


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Samloyal23 said:


> It is your universe, you make the rules. Decide you can exit a portal to the same point in time that you entered it...



Hm... So does the effect of time passing still impact your body's metabolism?  If a day passes within your universe, do you still age a day?


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Hm... So does the effect of time passing still impact your body's metabolism?  If a day passes within your universe, do you still age a day?




Sure, the demiplane is just outside the normal continuum and the portal connects to a point in Time as well as space.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Samloyal23 said:


> Sure, the demiplane is just outside the normal continuum and the portal connects to a point in Time as well as space.



But your body still travels with you, being you and all.  The passage of time, whatever that time may be, still has an effect on your person.  
Can you describe to me the specific mechanics you have in mind to prevent this?  
I'm seriously asking, because my Factotum's intended retirement many levels from now is to retreat to the Astral Plane (Timeless) thru a protal to his fortress and remain there, crafting, while clients come to him.  Should he ever leave, the affects of aging will catch up to him and he'd turn to dust.  If there is a mechanical alternative, I'm interested, but I need to be able to pitch it to my DM when the time comes.


----------



## jefgorbach

RAW says time is subjective so you're correct ... however sounds like he'd be more a plot-point/npc by that time so chances are your GM would gratefully allow some form of immortality/life-extension to maintain his presence. Undeath offers many benefits.


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> But your body still travels with you, being you and all.  The passage of time, whatever that time may be, still has an effect on your person.
> Can you describe to me the specific mechanics you have in mind to prevent this?
> I'm seriously asking, because my Factotum's intended retirement many levels from now is to retreat to the Astral Plane (Timeless) thru a protal to his fortress and remain there, crafting, while clients come to him.  Should he ever leave, the affects of aging will catch up to him and he'd turn to dust.  If there is a mechanical alternative, I'm interested, but I need to be able to pitch it to my DM when the time comes.




Time in the demiplane would be completely normal. The portal to go in and out of the demiplane would be like a time portal, connected to one point in time outside the demiplane in normal space. So let us say you build the demiplane on January 26, 2012. You go inside and spend a full year inside the demiplane. You age a year. When you leave through the portal you end up in normal space on January 26, 2012, even though you left on January 26, 2013.


----------



## Samloyal23

The only way to travel with your 2000 warforged scout guerrilla incursion force...


----------



## RUMBLETiGER

Samloyal23 said:


> Time in the demiplane would be completely normal. The portal to go in and out of the demiplane would be like a time portal, connected to one point in time outside the demiplane in normal space. So let us say you build the demiplane on January 26, 2012. You go inside and spend a full year inside the demiplane. You age a year. When you leave through the portal you end up in normal space on January 26, 2012, even though you left on January 26, 2013.



This is the problem though, your body has still aged a year.  You return to the Material Plane at the same moment, but your body is older.  Do that 50 times, and you've aged 50 years in a second.  How does one prevent this?
We need a demiplane where time goes backwards.


----------



## Greenfield

Consider this alternative:  A pocket dimension where time flows "normally", but aging is reversed.  Each day there is a day here, but the body gets a day younger.

I mean, if you get to define the rules any way you want, why go halfway?


----------



## Samloyal23

RUMBLETiGER said:


> This is the problem though, your body has still aged a year.  You return to the Material Plane at the same moment, but your body is older.  Do that 50 times, and you've aged 50 years in a second.  How does one prevent this?
> We need a demiplane where time goes backwards.




You are not aging faster, you are travelling back through time to the same date you entered the portal. Your aging is completely normal. If you want, you can rule that time is slower or faster in the demiplane. You can even have the rate time moves be variable, say based on your mood.


----------



## Shaghayegh

Samloyal23 said:


> You are not aging faster, you are travelling back through time to the same date you entered the portal. Your aging is completely normal. If you want, you can rule that time is slower or faster in the demiplane. You can even have the rate time moves be variable, say based on your mood.




I like the idea of a demiplane's very laws of physics following the moods of the plane's creator. Time could move faster when he is trying to get something done and slower when he wants to relax. The weather could respond to his feelings, creating storms when he is angry and bright sunny days when he is feeling chipper...


----------



## Greenfield

I'm trying to envision a sphere 360 feet across with a weather system.

I'm also trying to envision a sphere 360 feet across with a sun, stars, and a night sky.  Or even a daytime sky.

Can a I make a demi-plane that incorporates an automatic "Shrink to 1/100th size" on anything that enters, and reverses it as they leave?  That at least gives me a few pseudo-miles of space inside.


----------



## Shaghayegh

Greenfield said:


> Consider this alternative: A pocket dimension where time flows "normally", but aging is reversed. Each day there is a day here, but the body gets a day younger.
> 
> I mean, if you get to define the rules any way you want, why go halfway?




What happens if you get stuck there and cannot find an exit portal? Do you revert to a fetus at some point?


----------



## Greenfield

Pretty much.  At some point you would regress to the point where you couldn't feed or care for yourself.  I expect you'd die from that problem long before you reached fetal stage.

The elephant in the room, of course, the issue that nobody wants to mention, is that you could also create your demi-plane so it rains diamonds and rubies, and the ground is made of gold, silver, mthryll and adamantine.  Literally unlimited wealth.

Along with eternal youth and fountains that spray the magic potion of your choice, I mean.

But then, those things go without saying.


----------



## Shaghayegh

Greenfield said:


> Pretty much. At some point you would regress to the point where you couldn't feed or care for yourself. I expect you'd die from that problem long before you reached fetal stage.
> 
> The elephant in the room, of course, the issue that nobody wants to mention, is that you could also create your demi-plane so it rains diamonds and rubies, and the ground is made of gold, silver, mthryll and adamantine. Literally unlimited wealth.
> 
> Along with eternal youth and fountains that spray the magic potion of your choice, I mean.
> 
> But then, those things go without saying.




Exactamundo. A demiplane can be the manifestation of your most creative impulses. You are G-d there...


----------



## Samloyal23

Greenfield said:


> Pretty much.  At some point you would regress to the point where you couldn't feed or care for yourself.  I expect you'd die from that problem long before you reached fetal stage.




If you knew how to come and go you could pretty much live forever, erasing the years you spend outside the demiplane, and still gain added mental attribute bonuses for growing older as the years passed. A plane like this would be a major quest for those who fear growing old...


----------



## Greenfield

Samloyal23 said:


> If you knew how to come and go you could pretty much live forever, erasing the years you spend outside the demiplane, and still gain added mental attribute bonuses for growing older as the years passed. A plane like this would be a major quest for those who fear growing old...



Well, almost.  Reversing aging reverses aging.  Al aging, all aspects of aging.  The modifiers are by age category, so when you lose the age category you lose the modifiers.

But consider this option:  Decide when you set up your demi-plane that everything ages at a normal rate, in whichever direction it takes to reach the middle of your species "young adult" age category.  So older people get younger but children mature normally.

Add a few conditions:  Anyone who dwells here gains 1 stat point in all stats per year.

Now add the previously mentioned size modifier, where anything entering is reduced in size, and anything leaving grows in size.  Include spell areas and ranges in the size twist, and make the factor 5280 to 1, just to keep it simple.  You world is 360 feet across, if measured from the outside.  It's 360 miles across if measured from the inside.

The entire place is under a permanent _Plant Growth_ effect (the "Enrichment" variety, so forests are always lush and crops are always plentiful. 

You'll have to plant those forests and crops, stock the streams and lakes with fish and import some wildlife, but you could establish some really nice retirement property there.


----------



## Loonook

Ahh Genesis, one of those spells that causes issues because people don't look at other forms of it.

Sadly, the Spells SRD were not updated with the errata, but the Psionics version was properly detailed as to NOT allow for Time traits, or specialized features (at best you can make simple terrain of hills and valleys of inert dirt).  

If you believe the Time side of things is the important one... Why do you care about all of that when, if you follow Greenfield's format, you can just breed an army?

Boon Traps of Create Food and Water for feeding the hungry masses and a constant battle to ensure XP gain.  Steal 12 children, lock them in the plane, come back in a day with a Living Construct who can train them.  Create another Genesis 180 feet away, and let the magic happen.

As long as you produce wooden weapons and other materials, ship in occasional other items, and keep your Living Construct minions alive the Planes will merge and collide at SOME point (if you use the 'add plane' feature) around 1000 years after the Genesis effect is triggered on the one side.  Teach them to battle each other, gain power, create an entire culture... 

And you'll have yourself some delightful people to populate your new keeps, who have spent thousands of years being indoctrinated that you are likened unto a GOD.

Slainte,

-Loonook.


----------



## Samloyal23

Greenfield said:


> Well, almost.  Reversing aging reverses aging.  Al aging, all aspects of aging.  The modifiers are by age category, so when you lose the age category you lose the modifiers.
> 
> But consider this option:  Decide when you set up your demi-plane that everything ages at a normal rate, in whichever direction it takes to reach the middle of your species "young adult" age category.  So older people get younger but children mature normally.
> 
> Add a few conditions:  Anyone who dwells here gains 1 stat point in all stats per year.
> 
> Now add the previously mentioned size modifier, where anything entering is reduced in size, and anything leaving grows in size.  Include spell areas and ranges in the size twist, and make the factor 5280 to 1, just to keep it simple.  You world is 360 feet across, if measured from the outside.  It's 360 miles across if measured from the inside.
> 
> The entire place is under a permanent _Plant Growth_ effect (the "Enrichment" variety, so forests are always lush and crops are always plentiful.
> 
> You'll have to plant those forests and crops, stock the streams and lakes with fish and import some wildlife, but you could establish some really nice retirement property there.




I see no reason you cannot define the the reversed aging as physical age only. You need not become less wise and perceptive and educated because your body is rejuvenating.


----------



## Shaghayegh

Loonook said:


> Ahh Genesis, one of those spells that causes issues because people don't look at other forms of it.
> 
> Sadly, the Spells SRD were not updated with the errata, but the Psionics version was properly detailed as to NOT allow for Time traits, or specialized features (at best you can make simple terrain of hills and valleys of inert dirt).





Blech! More evidence of how much the 3E development team messed up everything created for 2E. Demiplanes were created for the Ethereal Plane, being produced naturally from over-dense areas of protomatter. The Astral Plane was a 0-dimensional non-space. You cannot create density and fold space when there isn't any! Sod the 3E demiplane rules!


----------



## Samloyal23

Shaghayegh said:


> Blech! More evidence of how much the 3E development team messed up everything created for 2E. Demiplanes were created for the Ethereal Plane, being produced naturally from over-dense areas of protomatter. The Astral Plane was a 0-dimensional non-space. You cannot create density and fold space when there isn't any! Sod the 3E demiplane rules!




Exactamundo! The 3E rules turned everything planar to blek, sod all of it. Stick to the 2E rules and adjust any numbers for 3E. Make your demiplane any damned way you want, that is why they exist!


----------

