# Elements of Magic



## yipwyg (Jul 27, 2002)

Hello! I was wondering if anyone had more information on this product.  The info I read on it in the review section has gotten me really excited about this product.  Any chance in the near future of getting a sneak peak at it.

Thanks for any  info.


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## Morrus (Jul 27, 2002)

I'll cast my "Summon Cyberzombie" spell and let the author himself handle this one!


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## Cyberzombie (Jul 28, 2002)

Howdy!  I have been summoned.   

I will be sending preview information to Morrus ASAP.  My wife just had a baby two weeks ahead of schedule, so it will take a bit.  I'll also post the info in this thread so you can get advanced teasers.  I should be able to post the first teaser Sunday or Monday.


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## RangerWickett (Jul 28, 2002)

Hey, congratulations!  Even though somebody *cough*Morrus*cough* didn't tell me you had proposed a book until many days late, I'm still very interested to hear what you've got up your sleeves.  Of course, you've got enough pressure now from other sources, I'm sure.


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## Cyberzombie (Jul 29, 2002)

He didn't tell you?  Eeek!  Well, he is kind of a busy guy, I spose.

I could send you a copy of the current document (I'm rapidly turning written notes into actual computer document) or you could get it off of Morrus.


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## yipwyg (Jul 29, 2002)

Congratulations on the new baby!!

I was wondering does your system work for all spellcasters (druid, paladin, ranger, and so forth) or just mages.


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## Cyberzombie (Aug 2, 2002)

Sorry for the delay.  I hope someday soon to get more than four hours of sleep a night.  

The Elements of Magic uses a different system of magic than the core rules.  The only standard spellcasting classes it uses are the Ranger and the Bard, and they each have access to different spells than in the core rules.  

But you can still have a character similar to a sorcerer/wizard, cleric, or druid.  The sorcerer/wizard is replaced by the black mage, the cleric by the white mage, and the druid by the green mage.

Instead of learning an individual spell, spellcasters learn spell lists.  Each list has spells from 0th to 9th level.  They get access to the higher level spells on a list at the same time as in the Core Rules -- so if you're a 5th level spellcaster, you have access to the 0th, 1st, 2nd, and 3rd level spells on every spell list you know.

Most spell lists are either Elemental related or Creature related.  Black mages specialize in the classic elements -- air, earth, fire, and water.  They're pretty similar to sorcerer/wizards.  White mages specialize in the elements of Life and Death; they're very similar to a cleric.  Green mages specialize in the Creature spells -- enchantments and polymorph spells, especially.

In addition to the spell lists, I've turned most divination spells and dispel magic into skills.  I think the big reason that most players don't use divination spells much (at least in the campaigns I've been in) is that they're not very versitile.  I'm trying to make them more versitile, and more like the sort of divinations you might see in a fantasy novel.  I'll include the description of the broadened Intuit Direction skill in another post, so that Morrus can more easily extract it if he wishes.


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## Cyberzombie (Aug 2, 2002)

*Intuit Direction*

Teaser #1 -- an expanded version of Intuit Direction that is, dare I say it, an actually USEFUL skill.    (After two tries, I am giving up on the table below.  It has only two columns, anyway -- one for Range, and the other for Obstructions.)

*Intuit Direction (Wis; Trained Only) *
You have an innate sense of direction.

	Standard Check: As in the Core Rules.

	Magical Check: Using a focusing item of your choice (such as a forked stick, spyglass, or compass) you can use your sense of direction to find a creature, object, location, or magical aura.  The DC for your check is usually 20; magically hidden items may have higher DCs.

	Each time you use this ability, you spend 1 magic point.  You can only choose one subject per use.  The duration of each use is concentration, or up to 1 minute/spellcaster level.  The range you can search depends on the obstruction in your way:

*Range                                      Obstructions*
Long (400 ft. +40 ft./level)	None
Medium (100 ft. +10 ft./level)	Wood or dirt, such as in a forest, through soil, or in most towns
Close (25 ft. +5 ft./2 levels)	Stone or metal, such as in a castle or dungeon

	You can search for creatures by type (such as animal, beast, plant, or undead) by species (such as badger, griffon, poppy, or skeleton) or for a specific individual.  If you wish to search for an individual, you must know exactly who you are searching for.  For example, you could not search for a town’s captain of the guard, but you could search for Guard Captain Dogan.

	If you search for an object, you must be fairly specific.  You can search for a type of metal (gold, silver, iron, etc.) drinkable water, a specific type of treasure (gems, art objects, paintings, weapons, swords, etc.), a specific type of trap or hidden object (trap on a lock, snares, pit traps, secret doors, etc.), and so forth.  You can look for poisons; if you find any, you can identify them with your Alchemy skill (see above).  You can also look for a specific object, such as Guard Captain Dogan’s longsword.

	You can search for any specific location (such as an exit), but you are only shown the direction it lies in, not the path to get there.  This skill does not help you escape a maze.

	You can search for a magical aura.  If you find one, you can study it with your Spellcraft skill (also expanded in The Elements of Magic).  You can even detect the aura of an invisible creature, though this only reduces their defence from total to ¾ cover, and only as long as you maintain concentration.

	On a successful check, you find the nearest subject in range; you know both their direction and the straight-line distance to them.  You may choose to ignore subjects you can see or otherwise know about to concentrate on any other subjects in range.  You can either follow your focus to track down the first subject you find, or you can make another check to look for any other subject in range.  You may continue doing either until the duration ends.  You can also map out the size of a large object, such as a seam of iron ore or an underground lake (at least for the part in range).


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## yipwyg (Aug 2, 2002)

Thanks for the info.  I liked what I've seen so far. I also think that turning a lot of the divination spells to skills is a good idea.  With this method you make a lot of skills way more useful and Pc's are more likely to invest in them.

With this system are paladins basically Fighter/White Mages.


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## Cyberzombie (Aug 2, 2002)

You could use a Fighter/White Mage to simulate a paladin.  Paladins don't work very well with the Elements of Magic because there is no divine magic -- it's all arcane.  Healing magic doesn't have to be divine, so clerics are easy to do (white mages), but the paladin's abilities are all very much rooted in divine magic.

Any other questions?  Assuming my son lets me sleep some, I can answer them now in a much more timely fashion.


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## Dark Psion (Aug 23, 2002)

Are you going to give all skills this treatment?

I have been thinking that a collected book of skills, with all of the "new uses of old skills" would be nice, but your "magic use" is even nicer.


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## Henry (Aug 23, 2002)

Darnit, something ELSE to spend my lunch money on!

I'm gonna starve, Morrus, I SWEAR IT!

_(looks down)_

well, maybe not...

Thanks, CyberZombie! I look forward to a magic system like this. it sounds VERY reminiscent of the magi in Gary Gygax's Dangerous Journeys system...

And by the way, congratulations on your new arrival! I hope mother and child are both healthy and happy.


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## tensen (Aug 23, 2002)

Cyberzombie said:
			
		

> *Howdy!  I have been summoned.
> 
> I will be sending preview information to Morrus ASAP.  My wife just had a baby two weeks ahead of schedule, so it will take a bit.  I'll also post the info in this thread so you can get advanced teasers.  I should be able to post the first teaser Sunday or Monday. *




Hey congrats on the baby.


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## Cyberzombie (Aug 26, 2002)

Dark Psion: I don't have all the skills expanded to include magical uses -- just the skills that directly affect magic, such as alchemy, scry, and spellcraft -- but I could do that if it proves popular enough.

Henry: Hmm.  I knew it had similarities to ICE's Chartmaster system, but not Dangerous Journeys.  Of course, I've never looked at DJ, so that might be why...

Henry, Tensen: Thanks!


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## TwoSix (Sep 19, 2002)

*Question on Multiclassing*

Question on the new book here for Cyberzombie (and I'm definitely buying, it looks great!):

Do the new rules support multiclassing between the different casting classes better than the standard rules?  Some kind of synergy between the classes, so that a Black Mage5/White Mage 5 is a fairly viable choice, as opposed to a Black Mage10?  I miss being able to play a cleric/wizard that's actually useful at higher levels.

Thanks in advance, and congratulations!


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## Cyberzombie (Sep 24, 2002)

Thanks, TwoSix!

The rules very much support the multiclassing you've been wishing for.  A black mage 5/white mage 5 under my system would have the same number of magic points and be able to cast the same level of spells (5th) as a black mage 10.  The difference would be that the pure black mage would know only black spell lists, while the black/white mage would know some of each.

So you can have great depth in black magic, or some black and some white, as you choose.  The only limit on your character is that you would probably run into multiclassing problems if you want to add more base classes.  It goes very much against the way they have the Core classes set up, but that was one of the intentions of the project.


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## Tsyr (Sep 24, 2002)

How about the "standby" and "utility" type spells? Do they still exist in any form?

Some specific examples I'm thinking of include:

Teleport
Dimension Door
Fly
Knock
Know Alignment

etc?

If not, can we look forward to an expansion?


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## Razuur (Sep 25, 2002)

When?    When?    When?

Patience is not my virtue.

When?


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## mroberon1972 (Sep 25, 2002)

*Power levels?*

Does its power levels balance with 3rd edition's normal magic system?   Can both be used in the same system without someone getting thier tail handed to them?  I only ask because I love the confusion a new type of magic does to my game...  And my players!


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## Cyberzombie (Sep 25, 2002)

Tsyr: Fly is covered by the initial book.  The others will be in an expansion, which I have partially written.  (Well, except "know alignment", since they've removed that from 3e.)

Razuur: You are justified in not being patient.  I will have it out asap.  Less than two weeks, hopefully less than a week, even more hopefully by Sunday.

mroberon1972: It is designed to match the balance of the normal 3e system.  I went to a lot of trouble to get it to balance out.  It won't be totally perfect, but nothing ever is.  

You could use it with the standard magic system, with one change.  Sorcerers and bards have to spend a full round casting a spell that is modified by metamagic feats.  If you use tEoM mages with standard spellcasters, you would want them to also spend a full round casting metamagic modified spells.  (When the EoM system is used by itself, metamagic spells do not take longer to cast.)  Other than that, it should work fine.


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## Razuur (Sep 26, 2002)

Hah... don't worry.  My lack of patience relates to all things.

This just happens to be one of my current objects of impatience!

Thanks!

8)


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## paulewaug (Sep 27, 2002)

*colors of magic=?*

Hey Cyberzombie?

So is Black Magic inherently evil (as in "Black Magic")
and is White Magic inherently good (as in "White Magic")
or are they just color references to them being different types of magic?
Like white is healing type, red is fire type..etc?


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## Cyberzombie (Sep 27, 2002)

*Re: colors of magic=?*



			
				paulewaug said:
			
		

> *Hey Cyberzombie?
> 
> So is Black Magic inherently evil (as in "Black Magic")
> and is White Magic inherently good (as in "White Magic")
> ...




No, black and white magic were inspired by the Final Fantasy games.  (As I developed the concept, the names are about the only similarities, though.)  Black magic is more stereotypically "wizard" -- fireballs, lightning bolts, etc.; big, flashy spells.  White magic is more "cleric" type magic -- healing and death magic.


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## netnomad (Sep 28, 2002)

The colors/types of magic almost remind me of the Order vs. Chaos from some books I read a while back.

Black is chatic is the way that it "breaks" things and rips them aparrt.

White is lawful/order in the way that it put things toghter and creates.

Green is Netural because it does neither and both.


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## Tuerny (Sep 28, 2002)

*Deities*

So if there is no divine magic in your system how do you handle servants of deities.

Do deities even exist?


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2002)

*Re: Deities*



			
				Tuerny said:
			
		

> *So if there is no divine magic in your system how do you handle servants of deities.
> 
> Do deities even exist? *




That's not quite what he said.  What he said was that there was no distinction between arcane and divine magic.  You can describe the "source" of magic however you want to!

Both types of magic are in there:



> Black magic is more stereotypically "wizard" -- fireballs, lightning bolts, etc.; big, flashy spells. White magic is more "cleric" type magic -- healing and death magic.


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## Tuerny (Sep 28, 2002)

Ah sounds cool.

I can't wait to take a look.


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## Ace (Sep 29, 2002)

I haven't bought any PDF games but this one may just break the mold. It sounds wonderfull


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## Cyberzombie (Sep 30, 2002)

Netnomad: While I don't have that as part of tEoM, you could apply that to it very easily.

Tuerny: As Morrus said, while there is no divine magic, that doesn't stop you from using tEoM with the deities of your choice. 

Ace: Thank you!  I appreciate that.    (And the same appreciation goes to Tuerny.)


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## Rifter (Oct 6, 2002)

*Any update on when this will be out?*

It sounds very interesting, and I keep watching for it.  Any updates on when it will be available?


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## TwoSix (Oct 15, 2002)

Any word yet on a release?

Still waiting,
TwoSix


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