# [EnWorld Book Club] The Club Dumas: Discussion.



## nikolai (Oct 14, 2004)

Discussion of the ENWorld Book Club's October selection, *The Club Dumas* by *Arturo Perez-Reverte*, starts here. Thanks to everyone who's gone to the trouble of reading it.

The Randomhouse website gives a list of questions intended to kickstart discussion of the novel, these are copied below:



> 1. "My name is Boris Balkan, and I once translated The Charterhouse of Parma. Apart from that, I've edited a few books on the nineteenth century popular novel, my reviews and articles appear in supplements and journals throughout Europe, and I organize summer school courses on contemporary writers" [p. 5]. What is unusual about the way Balkan introduces himself? Does his description of himself reflect his actions in the novel?
> 
> 2. Corso is frequently described as resembling a wolf or a rabbit. Is either description an accurate depiction of his personality? Does Corso's character undergo a transformation by the end of the novel? And if so, what causes it?
> 
> ...




Next month's selection is *On Writing* by *Stephen King*, discussion of this will start on the 15th of November.


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## shadoe (Oct 14, 2004)

I have some thoughts on some of these topics:

For question 2 I allways thought of Corso as a wolf, that was particularly good at looking inocennt. I never realy thought of his as the other way, but I as I think about this more, I think that my initial impressions of him were worng. He is very much the scavenger, throughout the book. He always seems more viscious than he is. In fact he is only violent once, and in most cases his first choice is to run away.

3: I think that Balkan is as reliable a narrator as we can get. I don't think that Corso is very reliable as a narrator to Balkan, so I think that any inconsistancies should be blamed on Corso.

8: If it were not for the computer in Corso's place, I would think that it was set in the early 70's, which would point to the main players in the drama being born before TV became a common household appliance. Which is were I see there love of books coming from. I find it harder to imagine that poeple would behave the same way if they were born after the 70's, even though there are some exceptions to that.

9: I think that the source of evil in the novel is man. Without poeple doing evil to other poeple, none of the events in this novel would have happened. I think Borja did not need a ritual to summon the devil, he was the devil incarnate for this story.

I think I will stop here, as I think about this some more, I will probably put more thoughts on this out here.


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## nikolai (Oct 14, 2004)

I'll post my thoughts in more detail later. I was very impressed by how cleverly the book was constructed, particularly in self-conciously using the devices of serial fiction and the detective novel, the two plot strands, and the way the engravings and diagrams were integrated into the text. I also thought it was very clever and subtle how the pictures from the _Nine Doors_ reflected upon the story. I got the sense (on my second reading) that Borja's doom was inevitable, right from the start. I thought if was nice how the author had Corso drinking glass after glass after glass of gin, all the way through the book, but never eating anything.


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## Wombat (Oct 14, 2004)

I'll come back with some specifics later, but I need to start with this comment:

The book is clever, terribly clever, self-consciously clever.

In that way I find that it fails.

Overall, the book is so intent on being clever, that both the characters and the plot suffer.  I never felt pulled into the book, but rather into the writing style and the puzzle.  I was more caught up with the notion of clever author, rather than of the story.  

I've read a lot of clever, even difficult, authors in my time -- Robertson Davies, Italo Calvino, Gabriel Garcia Marquez, Milorad Pavic.  I enjoyed their books much more so than this one, and for this I felt very sad.

As I said, more details when I get my book back in front of me.


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## Berandor (Oct 14, 2004)

I'm not going to answer textbook questions (of course, I can't reference the book at work and my home computer is broken) 

However, I enjoyed the book for several reasons - and I still like the movie.

I really had fun with the Dumas angle of the story; Corso as D'Artagnan, the widow as Lady, (I don't have the book in front of me, so excuse any mistake on names, please), even the antiques book dealer as Porthos. I think that's one helluva cool society, even if a little elitist, to be in.

I think the narrative perspective is interesting: Balkan tells us what Corso has told him, which is one step away from making my head explode. Who tells the truth? Does anybody? Nobody? Better not to think about it.

I liked the ending better than the movie. I also liked that the correlation between Irene and the Devil is stronger, whereas someone on imdb made a very convincing argument that at least the movie Corso was the devil, himself.

Corso himself was an interesting figure. Very reactive, but not so much that you start to dislike him. I enjoyed the deliberate manipulation he used - according to Balkan. Corso is very much an anti-hero, but sympathetic nonetheless. He's also very much a man of the devil, with his manipulation, smoking, drinking, ruthlessness, and whatnot. I like him, still 

More later, when work slows down again.


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## mmadsen (Nov 1, 2004)

Wombat said:
			
		

> The book is clever, terribly clever, self-consciously clever.  In that way I find that it fails.  Overall, the book is so intent on being clever, that both the characters and the plot suffer.



I agree completely.  It felt so contrived that I never found myself caring.  And that upset me, because I was really looking forward to this book.


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## shadoe (Nov 2, 2004)

mmadsen said:
			
		

> I agree completely.  It felt so contrived that I never found myself caring.  And that upset me, because I was really looking forward to this book.




I never felt that the author was trying to force the cleverness, but that Corso was putting too much of his own cleverness into things. He assumed that he knew more about what was going on that what he realy knew, and it caused all kinds of troubles for him.


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## mmadsen (Nov 2, 2004)

Randomhouse said:
			
		

> 8. The Club Dumas does not establish a precise time period. What era do you imagine The Club Dumas to take place? Do certain characters seem to exist in their own historical periods? If so, how does this effect the way characters construct their identities and how they perceive one another?



I found this question peculiar, because I felt the story did establish a time period.  On the technological front, the protagonist has a personal computer, but no Net connection, has a phone, but no mobile phone, etc.  That narrows it down to the late 1980s or early 1990s.  On the sociological front, he has casual sex with a couple different women, he goes to a bar with an openly lesbian bartender, etc.  That implies a fairly modern setting too.


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## shadoe (Nov 3, 2004)

I allways pictured it set in the mid 80's myself. Computers are just becoming the big thing and the police networks are not interconnected like they are now.


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## nikolai (Nov 3, 2004)

> Overall, the book is so intent on being clever, that both the characters and the plot suffer. I never felt pulled into the book, but rather into the writing style and the puzzle. I was more caught up with the notion of clever author, rather than of the story.




Personally, I think that the _Nine Doors_ part of the story line was very well done. It was cleverly put together, in what I thought was a very subtle unshowy way. I think the _Musketeers_ story line was probably needed to raise the level of mystery and suspense in the novel, but I can see how this addition (particularly the level of self-consciousness involved) makes the book more of a game.

I did think the _Nine Doors_ plotline, with the mysteries involving the woodcuts, was really very well crafted. What did everyone think of the ending? And did anyone spot the final twist, 



Spoiler



involving the forged woodcut


, before it happened?


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## Wombat (Nov 3, 2004)

I dunno.  In the end I felt both plot lines felt like bad shaggy dog stories, where at the end all the dog says is "woof".  

The Dumas line was ridiculous -- how many people would so identify with characters out of books that they would spend their whole lives re-enacting those parts, especially the parts of the villains, and that to no real purpose.  I felt sad for many of the characters in this plot line for leading such shallow, limited, and rather pointless lives.  

The Nine Doors line had some promise, but the end, after all the build-up, was severely disappointing.  I felt like the author got to the end and said, "Ooops!  I have no idea how to end this!  I better just drop it."  

I had really looked forward to reading the book, especially with the way in which many people had recommended it, as well as a deep love of Dumas' writings (although not to the extent of the loonies in the book), but in the end I felt as if I had been cheated, that the whole book was a huge bait-and-switch.  I have duly sold the book to my favourite used book store and picked up some more Amelia Peabody to replace it.


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## shadoe (Nov 4, 2004)

Wombat said:
			
		

> The Dumas line was ridiculous -- how many people would so identify with characters out of books that they would spend their whole lives re-enacting those parts, especially the parts of the villains, and that to no real purpose.  I felt sad for many of the characters in this plot line for leading such shallow, limited, and rather pointless lives.




Not too many people would so identify with the characters, and even in the story only two did. Rochefort(sp?) and Lilly. To everyone else in seemed to me to be nothing more than a club, not unlike your average gaming club that has a costume party for Halloween. 


			
				Wombat said:
			
		

> The Nine Doors line had some promise, but the end, after all the build-up, was severely disappointing.  I felt like the author got to the end and said, "Ooops!  I have no idea how to end this!  I better just drop it."




To me the Nine Doors line always felt rather deliberate. Like author had planed for that all along. He even leaves hints about it throughout the book starting at the very begining where they talk about the three known copies all being thought of as "true" copies even though there should only be one, and that the records didn't agree on the number of woodcuts in them. Between that, the talks with the brothers who "repaired" old books, and the discovery that they all three had nine woodcuts told me that something was tampered with.

I didn't like the movie ending where 



Spoiler



Corso found the missing woodcut behind the piano in the brothers shop


, because it felt like they were trying too hard to explain the ending.


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## shadoe (Nov 4, 2004)

nikolai said:
			
		

> I did think the _Nine Doors_ plotline, with the mysteries involving the woodcuts, was really very well crafted. What did everyone think of the ending? And did anyone spot the final twist,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I liked the plotline and it felt right, but I can't remember if I spoted the final twist before it happened the first time I read it around '96.  :\


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## nikolai (Nov 4, 2004)

shadoe said:
			
		

> To me the Nine Doors line always felt rather deliberate. Like author had planed for that all along. He even leaves hints about it throughout the book starting at the very begining where they talk about the three known copies all being thought of as "true" copies even though there should only be one, and that the records didn't agree on the number of woodcuts in them.




The Nine Doors plot was all flagged well in advance. Both with Borja's advanced knowledge of the one "true" book. And the bookbinders chapter, where Corso gets the true meaning of the conversation which the reader misses (at least the first time around).

I thought Borja's fate was also very well constructed. The reader is continually reminded that the book got Torchia and others involved with it burnt. The Borja, Corso, Book & Devil interaction is all wheels within wheels, with each of them playing the others for nebulous reasons until the end. The engravings also prefigure the whole plot line:

*I: The Horseman with his finger to his lips.* Corso not telling Borja of the missing engraving and thereby dooming him.
*II: The Dog [devil] guarding the keys.* The girl guarding the book, preventing it from being stolen or damaged.
*III:The archer and the bridge.* A warning of what lies in wait for anyone attempting to use the book.
*IIII: The jester and the maze.* Not everyone will fail to contact the devil.
*V: The miser and death.* Either Borja's books, none of which did him any good, or his money, which his refusal to part with doomed him in the end.
*VI: The hanged man.* The various deaths, and the devil's disinterest in preventing any of them.
*VII: The king and servant playing a chess game.* Borja's plot against Corso, and Corso's against Borja.
*VIII: The headsman and the woman.* Corso's meeting with the Baroness, knowledge of her past, and blackmail of her with it.
*VIIII: The girl, dragon and burning castle.* Corso and the girl.

These are also explicitly referenced in the text at appropriate times.


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