# Recruiting for Blood and Guts: Modern Military PbP (done recruiting for now)



## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

I would like to begin a d20 Modern campaign called "Blood Blizzard" which will cast the PCs as soldiers in Iraq in the near future (the year 2010). 

All that will be required to play is a copy of the d20 Modern core rules (or SRD) and a copy of Blood and Guts II: Military Training Manual, available at RPGNow.

The campaign will begin at 5th level which will begin the PCs able to take some of the Advanced Classes provided in B&G II. 

Some other things you'd probably like to know before we begin:

I'm the writer of the Blood and  Guts II series for RPGObjects and this PbP is going to playtest a new campaign-length module I plan to produce in the future as a PDF for that game. 

1. Participants in the PbP will receive a free copy of the module upon completion as well as playtesting credit in said module. 

2. This PbP is not intended to be a forum for anyone's views on the Iraq War, including mine. Although the game will contend with politics and religion, as long as we keep it possible future politics and religion I think we will be ok with the forum rules. 

3. Here's the history of the five years from now until the beginning of the campaign:

(2005-2010) Iraq forms an independent government but one rife with bitterly opposed factions. An uneasy truce is brokered that allows the government to form but all sides ask the United States to stay as a “stabilizing presence”. 

A.	Although the American presence is reduced substantially, an airbase is constructed and Americans continue to patrol the country. The Iraqi Army grows in strength and slowly takes on the majority of the peacekeeping role. 

B.	Iraq continues to be a terrorist hotbed and special operations forces continue to wage a secret war in the country with the consent of the Iraqi governing council. 

C.	An Iraqi Shi`ia priest negotiates a “grand compromise” with Iran. In return for putting their nuclear reactor on indefinite hiatus, Iraq’s constitution will be based on Islamic law. 

If there are any further questions, I'd be happy to answer them.

EDIT: In an effort to reduce insurgents and materials crossing over the huge border, an electronic frontier was set up along the Iraq-Iran border. The frontier consists of small unmanned radar outposts, movement sensors, movement activated cameras, etc.

These stations are fairly unreliable and frequently get knocked out by strong sandstorms. They are also a favorite target for scavengers looking for electronic components to sell on the black market. 

Despite these problems the frontier has made a dent in unrestricted movement across the border and a similar series of stations are planned for the Iraq-Syria border. 

The PCs have been given the wonderful job of maintaining the electronic frontier. 

Chuck


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## The Shaman (Aug 11, 2005)

I'm interested - what would you like to see to get started?


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Im looking for 4-6 players... just make up a 5th level character using the standard array for ability scores (15, 14, 13, 12, 10, 8) using B&G II and the modern core, along with a character background etc. 

Chuck


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## The Shaman (Aug 11, 2005)

Copy that. Just as a heads-up, I'll be creating an elint specialist.


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## The Shaman (Aug 11, 2005)

Couple more questions - 
1. Does choosing an MOS in B&GII require a feat slot as in B&GI? Never mind - answered my own question
2. Average hit points or roll for each level after first?
3. Will you be issuing a standard equipment package or should we purchase/requisition?
4. Select our own rank, or roll with each level?

Thanks very much!


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> Couple more questions -
> 1. Does choosing an MOS in B&GII require a feat slot as in B&GI?
> 2. Average hit points or roll for each level after first?
> 3. Will you be issuing a standard equipment package or should we purchase/requisition?
> ...




1. Yes
2. Average is fine for a start.
3. Equipment will be provided. 
4. Starting ranks will be fairly low, I'll set them based on feats, each character will probably have been promoted twice.


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## Bobitron (Aug 11, 2005)

I'm in! It might take me a little while to get a character up and running, but I love the thought of playing a game with you. I'll vouch for Shaman's amazing writing, as well. I have the first edition Blood and Guts books; is there much of a change? If so, I'll buy the new one, it's cheap enough at only $5.

Interestingly enough, I ran Operation: Dry Country tonight for a couple of guys as a one shot. Set up the characters as CIA SAD operatives. It was a great time, ran through it in a little over three hours. I think it really was a great way to show off the Modern/B&G rules.

Edit: One question- what is the unit we will be part of? It will help me with background and concept.

Thanks!


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## kingpaul (Aug 11, 2005)

Cool! I'll start working on a character now.


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> I'm in! It might take me a little while to get a character up and running, but I love the thought of playing a game with you. I'll vouch for Shaman's amazing writing, as well. I have the first edition Blood and Guts books; is there much of a change? If so, I'll buy the new one, it's cheap enough at only $5.
> 
> Interestingly enough, I ran Operation: Dry Country tonight for a couple of guys as a one shot. Set up the characters as CIA SAD operatives. It was a great time, ran through it in a little over three hours. I think it really was a great way to show off the Modern/B&G rules.
> 
> ...




Yeah BNG II is pretty different, the classes are much less specific and easier to get into. 

The unit is going to be pretty wide ranging, and no necessity that you would all be in the same unit (speaking of which, the way units work is another big change so if you're aiming for special forces you'll need to check with me). 

As I said in the intro, the American presence in the near future setting has been concentrated in one large base, located in Babil province between Najaf and Hilla.

Here's a good map of the country for folks to check out to get a basic lay of the land.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/facility/iraq-map-aor_040400.htm

Chuck

PS On the issue of playing a game with me, I have never, ever ran a PbP game before, so hopefully you won't be severely disappointed 

Chuck


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## kingpaul (Aug 11, 2005)

Well, here he is, using the generator



> Strong Hero 3/Assault Training 2 CR 5; Medium-size humanoid; HD 3d8+6 plus 2d10+4 plus 2; HP 37; Mas 14; Init +2; Spd 30 ft; Defense 15, touch 15, flatfooted 13 (+0 size, +2 Dex, +3 class); BAB +5; Grap +7; Atk +7 melee (1d6+3, weapon), or +7 ranged (1d6+0, weapon); FS 5 ft by 5 ft; Reach 5 ft; SQ ; AL USMC; SV Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +1; AP 2; Rep +0; Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8.
> Occupation: Military (Knowledge [Tactics], Survival)
> Skills: Craft (chemical) +6, Craft (electronic) +6, Knowledge (Tactics) +7, Navigate +3, Read/Write Language +3 (Arabic, English, German, Spanish), Speak Language +3 (Arabic, English, German, Spanish), Survival +8, Treat Injury +4
> Feats: Desert Warfare College (Drive, Knowledge [Tactics], Survival), MOS NBC (Craft [chemical], Craft [electronic], Treat Injury), MOS Rifleman (Climb, Knowledge [Tactics], Survival), Personal Firearms Proficiency, Weapon Focus
> ...


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Very nice.


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## Masada (Aug 11, 2005)

Sticking my foot in for a character... I'm going to buy B&GII now... I already have BGI.


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## Bobitron (Aug 11, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Yeah BNG II is pretty different, the classes are much less specific and easier to get into.




That's cool, I'll pick it up today. I wanted it anyway, so this is a good excuse. I already have the SOCOM book. I'll get you an idea of where my character is headed once I look it over, and I'll finish him up this weekend.



			
				Vigilance said:
			
		

> PS On the issue of playing a game with me, I have never, ever ran a PbP game before, so hopefully you won't be severely disappointed
> 
> Chuck




I'm sure you will do fine. Your writing experience will certainly come in handy.

Thanks for the opportunity. 

-Bob


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## JPL (Aug 11, 2005)

Does someone already have dibs on a 922A - Food Service Technician?

Duties: Coordinates and supervises the Food Service Program for installations, commands or organizations to include dissemination of information, managing personnel, determining technical training requirements, developing and conducting training for officer, enlisted, and civilian personnel, and developing management plans for food service. Develops and coordinates implementation of dining facility modernization and new construction programs. Develops, coordinates, and monitors budget requirements for food service equipment and expendable supplies for both garrison and field requirements. Plans, trains, and implements changes in nutritional awareness programs, modification of menus, and implementation of low calorie menus. Coordinates with Troop Issue Subsistence Activities (TISA) and Class I points to ensure availability of appropriate subsistence for both garrison and field manuals to ensure adequate timely resupply, and to ensure reconfiguration of nonunitized field rations into nutritionally acceptable menus. Evaluates field feeding requirements and develops milestone plans to support major field exercises. Reviews and monitors requisitions for Class I, III, and IX supplies to support food service operations, and coordinates all planning for food service support foe field training. Evaluates garrison and field feeding operations to ensure food service personnel are complying with food service regulations relative to food preparation, service, accountability, and sanitation. As a contracting officer representative (COR), inspects full food service contract dining facilities to determine if they are in compliance with the terms of the contract. 

He could be called...oh, I dunno..."Cookie"?


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## Masada (Aug 11, 2005)

Sgt. J.J. "Chicken Legs" Jackson (E-5)
Human Male Fast 3 / Recon Training 2, Occupation Military (Hide, Move Silently)

HP: 38, Defense 18 (Flat 15, Touch 13), Fort +5 Ref +7 Will +1, MDT 14

Str 12 Dex 16 Con 14 Int 13 Wis 10 Cha 8, Move 40'

BAB +3, Melee +4, Ranged +6
Point Blank Range M16A2 Attack +8, 2d8 Dam, <30'
Normal Range M16A2 Attack +7, 2d8 Dam, 30'-119'
1st Range Inc M16A2 Attack +7, 2d8 Dam, 120'-239'

Allegiances: US Army, God, National Rifle Association
Skills: Hide (Dex) +13, Move Silently (Dex) +12, Craft [Struct] (Int) +9, Speak Lang (Arabic, Kurdish), Read/Write (Arabic, Kurdish), Knowledge [Streetwise] (Int) +9, Listen (Wis) +8, Spot (Wis)+8
Talents: Enhanced Speed, Imp. Enhanced Speed
Feats: Personal Firearm Prof., MOS Rifleman (Craft [Struct], Hide, Spot), Weapon Focus (M16A2), Point Blank Shot, Far Shot
Class Abilities: Camouflage, Adv. Training (Marksman 1)
Equipment: M16A2 5.56mm assault rifle, 2 extra 30 box clips, Rifle nightvision scope, Glock 17 9mm autoloader, 2 extra 15 box clips, reflex sight, light concealable vest (non-prof bonus 1), mesh vest, back pack, 3 frag grenades, 2 smoke grenades, night vision goggles, BDU's, combat boots (2 pair), standard binocs, gun cleaning kit, sun glasses, convert comm headset, walkie-talkie, cell phone (off), camo kit, pocket notebook & pen, combat knife, pocket knife, compass, matches, zippo, smokes, foxhole shovel, field gas mask.

Description: Johnny Jay Jackson of Wichita, Kansas, 26 years old, 6'6", 200 lbs, caucasian, blue eyes, red hair.

Background: JJ entered the military to become a man.  Although he wasn't sure what that meant at the time, the Army has shown him.  Adept at camouflage and exceptionally patient he was selected for Recon.  He has received extensive camo, weapons and language training.  He hopes to one day qualify for SERE.  In a team he excells at being a forward scout/sniper.  Nothing makes him prouder than to protect his squad as they move up.

JJ's father is National Guard Reserve.  His grandfather served and was wounded in WWII.  His mother works as the church secretary.  His grandfather enlisted when at 17, lying about his age. Before he left he married his 16 year old sweetheart--they've were married for 75 years before dying within months of each other just a couple of year ago.  Alvin (grandfather) was very proud of his grandson.  JJ has been inspired to become career military by him.


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Masada- sweet.

JPL... uh no, you'd be the first 

Chuck


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## The Shaman (Aug 11, 2005)

*Spc. Mark “Doc” Meadows*
Dedicated 5






_Spc. Mark Meadows examines a young Moroccan patient during an exercise, October 2009_

*STR* 10/±0
*DEX* 8/-1
*CON* 13/+1
*INT* 12/+1 
*WIS* 16/+3 [+1 attribute bump at 4th level]
*CHA* 14/+2

*Hit Points* 27

*Initiative* -1 [Dex -1]

*Move* 15-ft

*BAB* +3 [Ded5 +3]
*- Melee* +3 [BAB +3 + Str ±0]
-- Unarmed +3 [Dmg. 1d3 non-lethal/Crit. 20]
-- Combat knife +3 [Dmg. 1d4 piercing/Crit. 19-20/Rng. 10-ft./Size T]
-- Rifle butt +3 [Dmg. 1d6 bludgeoning/Crit. 20]
-- Improvised weapon -1 [Dmg. 1 D/1-2 T/1d3 S/1d4 M/1d6 L bludgeoning/Crit. 20/Rng. 10-ft. max]
*- Ranged* +2 [BAB +3 + Dex -1]
-- M4 Carbine assault rifle +2 [Dmg. 2d8/Crit. 20/Rng. 60-ft./Rate S, A/Mag. 30 box/Size L]
-- Fragmentation grenade +2 [Dmg. 4d6 slashing, burst radius 20-ft, Reflex DC 15/Rng. 20-ft./Size T]
-- Combat knife +2 [1d4 piercing/Crit. 19-20/Rng. 10-ft./Size T]
-- Improvised weapon -2 [Dmg. 1 D/1-2 T/1d3 S/1d4 M/1d6 L bludgeoning/Crit.20/Rng. 10-ft. max]

*Defense* 17 [Ded5 +3 + Dex -1 + equipment bonus +5]
*- Touch * 12 [Ded5 +3 + Dex -1]
*- Flat-footed* 17 [Ded5 +3 + Dex -1 + equipment bonus +5]

*Fortitude* +3 [Ded5 +3 + Con +1]
*Reflex* ±0 [Ded5 +1 + Dex -1]
*Will* +6 [Ded5 +3 + Wis +3]

*Reputation* +2 [Ded5 +2]
*AP* 24
*Wealth* +10
*Allegiances:* U.S. Army, family, LDS

*Starting Occupation:* Military –
_Class skills_: Knowledge (tactics), Survival
Bonus Feat: Personal Firearms Proficiency
Wealth Bonus +1

*Skills*-
Balance -1 [Dex -1]
Bluff +2 [Cha +2]
Climb ±0 [Str ±0]
Computer Use + 1 [Int +1]
Concentration +1 [Con +1]
*Craft (pharmaceutical) +5* [2 ranks + Medical Expert bonus +2 + Int +1]
*Craft (structural) +3* [2 ranks + Int +1]
*Craft (visual art) +1* [Int +1]
*Craft (writing) +1* [Int +1]
*Diplomacy +8* [6 ranks + Cha +2]
Disable Device +1 [Int+1]
Disguise +2 [Cha +2]
Drive -1 [Dex -1]
Escape Artist -1 [Dex -1]
Forgery +1 [Int +1]
*Gamble +3* [Wis +3]
Gather Information +2 [Cha +2]
Hide -1 [Dex -1]
Intimidate +2 [Cha +2]
Jump ±0 [Str ±0]
*Knowledge (earth and life science) +6* [5 ranks + Int +1]
*Knowledge (tactics) +4* [2 ranks + competence bonus +1 + Int +1]
*Knowledge (theology and theosophy) +3 * [2 ranks + Int +1]
Knowledge (_untrained_) +1 [Int +1]
*Listen +5* [Alertness bonus +2 + Wis +3]
Move Silently -1 [Dex -1]
Navigate +1 [Int +1]
Perform (_any_) +2 [Cha +2]
*Profession +3* [1 rank + Wis +3]
*Read/Write Language (English)*
Research +1 [Int +1]
Repair +1 [Int +1]
Ride -1 [Dex -1]
Search +1 [Int +1]
*Sense Motive +9* [6 ranks + Wis +3]
*Speak Language (English, Chinese, German, Arabic)* [3 ranks]
*Spot +11* [6 ranks + Alertness bonus +2 + Wis +3]
*Survival +10* [6 ranks + competence bonus +1 + Wis +3]
Swim ±0 [Str ±0]
*Treat Injury +15* [8 ranks + Healing Knack bonus +2 + Medical Expert bonus +2 + Wis +3]

*Feats* –
Simple Weapons Proficiency [automatic - free]
Personal Firearms Proficiency [bonus feat – Military occupation]
MOS Medical – Craft (pharmaceutical), Diplomacy, Treat Injury [starting feat]
Armor Proficiency (light) [starting feat]
Medical Expert [2nd level class bonus feat]
Armor proficiency (medium) [3rd level bonus feat]
Alertness

*Talents* –
Healing Knack - +2 bonus to Treat Injury
Healing Touch 1 - +2 HP damage restored with Treat Injury
Cool Under Pressure – take 10 on Craft (structural), Diplomacy, Sense Motive, Spot, Survival, Treat Injury under duress

*Class Abilities* –
Not applicable

*Encumbrance* –
Light <33-lbs/medium 34 to 66-lbs/heavy 67 to 100-lbs
Lift –
-- overhead 100-lbs.
-- off-ground 200-lbs.
-- push or drag 500-lbs.

*Equipment* –
ACU - pants, smock, sun hat (all desert camouflage pattern), leather gloves, OD t-shirt, skivvies, socks
- sunglasses, wristwatch, notepad, mechanical pencil
_Shemagh_ (Arab scarf)
Desert (hiking) boots
Flak (light-duty) vest [8-lb]
MOLLE (backpack) [3-lb – 37.75 -lb total] -
- _vest_ [14-lb total]
-- walkie-talkie (professional) with headset [1-lb]
-- 4 box magazines (30 rounds each) [2-lb]
-- 4 grenades (2 fragmentation, 1 red smoke, 1 white smoke) [6-lb total]
-- 2 canteens [4-lb]
-- MRE [-]
-- combat knife [1-lb]
- _patrol pack_ [8.5-lb total]
-- medical kit [5-lb.]
-- hydration tube (canteen) [2-lb]
-- flashlight [1-lb]
-- digital camera [0.5-lb]
- _rucksack_ [15.25-lb]
-- desert camouflage pack cover [-]
-- 6 box magazines (30 rounds each) [3-lb]
-- e-tool [3-lb]
-- MREs (3 days supply) [0.25-lb]
-- ACU jacket [2-lb]
-- PASGT helmet with chin strap and desert camouflage-pattern cover, with photos of his kids tucked inside [3 lb]
-- night-vision goggles [3-lb]
-- sand goggles [-]
-- spare socks and underwear [-]
-- sleeping bag [4-lb]
-- hygiene kit [1-lb]
M4 Carbine assault rifle with box magazine (30 rounds) [7-lb]
Military license (+2)
- Total encumbrance 57.5-lb

*Background* -
Mark Meadows was born 12 December 1984 in Salt Lake City and raised in St. George, Utah. His father William (Bill) teaches science at Dixie High School in St. George – his mother Leilani is a homemaker. Mark has six siblings, two brothers and four sisters – he is the second child of the family.

Mark attended public schools in St. George – after graduating he entered Utah State University as biology major (pre-med). During the summers he worked as a hotshot (wildland firefighter) for the Bureau of Land Management. He left school after his sophomore year to serve as a missionary for the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints – his two-year service took him to Taiwan, Australia, and South Carolina. It was in the latter that he met his fiancée, Kimberly Calhoun – Kim’s father and brother were both in the Army, and the family convinced Mark to join up, to compete for medical school scholarship opportunities and gain practical experience before returning to the university.

Mark completed basic training at Fort Benning, Georgia and entered AIT at the U.S. Army Medical Command Center and School at Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio, Texas – he also married Kim during his stay in the Lone Star state. After training the medic was assigned to the 421st Medical Evacuation Battalion in Wiesbaden, Germany and participated in operations across Europe and North Africa, including several humanitarian efforts. Mark and Kim had their first child, a son named David, in 2007 – a daughter, Mary, was born in early 2009, and Kim is expecting the couple’s third child in September 2010. . In October 2009, Mark was in a Chinook helicopter that crashed on take-off during an exercise in Morocco, suffering injuries to his left arm and shoulder – he recovered at the Landstuhl Regional Medical Center and rejoined his unit in the beginning of 2010. While recuperating he learned that his brother-in-law Kevin was killed in action in during counter-insurgency operations in Iraq. The grieving medic applied for a transfer to a combat unit in CENTCOM following the tragedy.

*Appearance* -
Mark is shorter than average with a medium build. His straight black hair and dark brown eyes are a reflection of his mother’s Hawaiian ancestry. He tends to gain weight if he’s not exercising regularly – fortunately his physical training and active duties help to keep him from developing a paunch.

Mark keeps his uniform squared-away and presents a professional appearance while on-duty. Off-duty he tends to be more relaxed, wearing torn t-shirts and ratty shorts as often as Kim will let him get away with it.

*Demeanor* -
Mark is tactful and professional – he is regularly assigned duty that involves extensive public contact by his NCOs and officers. He is generally easy-going, but Mark is also able to summon an exceptional calm in a crisis, a valuable trait in a combat medic.

Mark enjoys camping and sightseeing – he and Kim have traveled extensively around Europe during his posting in Germany.


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## kingpaul (Aug 11, 2005)

Oh wow...backgrounds already...I just did a skeleton to see if it'd be accepted. As for weaponry, what will they have? I didn't fill in the Atk sections because you said you'd be assigning gear. Although as a Infantryman, I may swap out Weapon Focus for Armor Proficiency (light).


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## uraniumdragon (Aug 11, 2005)

Count me in! The PbP I was in over at PlotHook fell apart for lack of posting.

Heading for the RPGObjects Generator now to create. Has a leader been selected yet? Else I'll pick SpecOps.

Characte name: O.D. Green

Let me know if I'm in.


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Hmmm ok, looking over what we have so far I see:

1. Combat Specialist (kingpaul)
2. Tech (Shaman)
3. Recon- looks like he's heading for sniper (Masada)
4. ??? (JPL)
5. ??? (Bobitron)

Nice mix so far. A possibility would be a driver (maybe Tanker?)

Chuck


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> Count me in! The PbP I was in over at PlotHook fell apart for lack of posting.
> 
> Heading for the RPGObjects Generator now to create. Has a leader been selected yet? Else I'll pick SpecOps.
> 
> ...




Sure thing 

As for leader, I doubt anyone will be the leader but I might be surprised. You guys might have more important thigns to worry about (like surviving )

Chuck


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## Bobitron (Aug 11, 2005)

I might go with a medic, but I'll let you know for certain soon.


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## Ranger Rick (Aug 11, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Hmmm ok, looking over what we have so far I see:
> 
> 1. Combat Specialist (kingpaul)
> 2. Tech (Shaman)
> ...




If it is not to late I would like to come up with some as well.  I could even be the tanker you requested.  The down side is I may not be able to create a character until Monday.


PS If you are playtesting, I might be able to help out with that as well as I have some experience from the army invasion the US did under Reagan.


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## Masada (Aug 11, 2005)

I prefer the term "scout" but I'm not opposed to shooting the enemy from hidden locations.  "Sniper" was remarkably hard to get to with only 5 levels.  But this looked like a good mix of trained soldier and crack shot with a little field expertise mixed in.


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## JPL (Aug 11, 2005)

Actually, I better bow out and let someone else play, Vig.  I don't want Cookie to hog all the glory, and I need to focus my energies on finishing my Secret Project.


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> If it is not to late I would like to come up with some as well.  I could even be the tanker you requested.  The down side is I may not be able to create a character until Monday.
> 
> 
> PS If you are playtesting, I might be able to help out with that as well as I have some experience from the army invasion the US did under Reagan.




Sure jump on in 

And I just think Tanker is the best driver MOS, feel free to choose any MOS. A vehicle guy (driving and repairing them) just seemed like a nice touch.

Chuck


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## The Shaman (Aug 11, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> I might go with a medic, but I'll let you know for certain soon.



You've already gone down that road - how 'bout a real killer this time? "Now let me see your war face!"


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## Ranger Rick (Aug 11, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Sure jump on in
> 
> And I just think Tanker is the best driver MOS, feel free to choose any MOS. A vehicle guy (driving and repairing them) just seemed like a nice touch.
> 
> Chuck





I will be a driver/wrench.  I am leaving so I can not work on it until Monday.  I only have the on line SRD so I do not have your Blood and Guts II: Military Training Manual.  I will get with you on Monday to help flesh everything out.

As to the background, Last vestige of a southern moonshine running family.   Family got into NASCAR like a lot of other did, but they where slowly phased out by the corporate greed erupting through out the sport in the 80s and becoming all powering with the reign of Jeff Gordon.  He does a lot of car work and when he joined he joined as a mechanic.

What are the costs (Prereqs/need feats etc.) for having him be a mechanic in SOCOM? (In a socom unit so he would have gone to many of those schools)


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## Vigilance (Aug 11, 2005)

Sounds good. 

Id rather no one start out in SOCOM (and its pretty tough in BNG II at 5th level).

Chuck


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## Bobitron (Aug 11, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> You've already gone down that road - how 'bout a real killer this time? "Now let me see your war face!"





Yeah, that could be fun. 

Edit:                            ^ That's my war face.


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## The Shaman (Aug 11, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> That's my war face.



 

That's mine!

(Actually, a medic probably wouldn't be a bad idea...)


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## Ranger Rick (Aug 11, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Sounds good.
> 
> Id rather no one start out in SOCOM (and its pretty tough in BNG II at 5th level).
> 
> Chuck





No SOCOM, that is fine.  What about getting para or air assult wings?  I assume HALO & pathfinder is out?  Lastly how about Ranger school?  Nothing like a yellow tab on your shoulder.  (PS It makes you bullet proof  or so went the myth when I wore it.).


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## Bobitron (Aug 12, 2005)

Lots of cool stuff in the book, Chuck, pleased as always. I picked up Combat Procedures Manual, Military Training Manual, and War on Terror. I could easily go Tough/Infantry or Charismatic/Leader, but I'm leaning towards a tough guy.


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## Vigilance (Aug 12, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> No SOCOM, that is fine.  What about getting para or air assult wings?  I assume HALO & pathfinder is out?  Lastly how about Ranger school?  Nothing like a yellow tab on your shoulder.  (PS It makes you bullet proof  or so went the myth when I wore it.).




This is Ranger (doable at 5th level if you're really careful about what you take and when you take it):

unit requirements
To qualify for 75th Ranger Battalion a character must
meet the following criteria.
BAB: 5+
Skills: Navigation 5 ranks, Survival 8 ranks,
Tumble 8 ranks, Knowledge (tactics) 5 ranks
Feats: MOS Riﬂeman, Jump School, one terrain
warfare feat (Amphibious Assault Training, Arctic
Warfare College, Desert Warfare College, Jungle/
Swamp Warfare, Mountain Warfare, Urban Warfare
College)
Talents: Death from Above, one terrain
specialization


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## Vigilance (Aug 12, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> Lots of cool stuff in the book, Chuck, pleased as always. I picked up Combat Procedures Manual, Military Training Manual, and War on Terror. I could easily go Tough/Infantry or Charismatic/Leader, but I'm leaning towards a tough guy.




Hey thanks 

Chuck


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## Vigilance (Aug 12, 2005)

Ok I went ahead and closed it for now... 5 should be plenty given the medium. Not that I *know* anything about this PbP dealie, but my guess is fewer players will speed things up.

Chuck


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## uraniumdragon (Aug 12, 2005)

So who are the lucky five players?
I haven't posted my character as I thought I was sixth or seventh.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Aug 12, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> 2. This PbP is not intended to be a forum for anyone's views on the Iraq War, including mine. Although the game will contend with politics and religion, as long as we keep it possible future politics and religion I think we will be ok with the forum rules.



Chuck, you should have no issues and you certainly have my blessing...  Also I believe your worries should be minimal as we've had at least one game using GR's Testament book played here with no issues.

Anyhow if anyone tries to give you grief than please let me know.

V/R
BS
PbP Mod


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## kingpaul (Aug 12, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Ok I went ahead and closed it for now... 5 should be plenty given the medium. Not that I *know* anything about this PbP dealie, but my guess is fewer players will speed things up.



Fewer people usually does speed things up. Now, what's your posting requirement? Some games want daily, others 3-4 times a week, 1-2 times a week, once every hour, etc.

And just so you know, I have family vacation with my folks (8/18-21) and then with my wife's folks (8/26-30) where I will undoubtedly not have 'net access. What can I say? Its nearing the end of summer.


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## Bobitron (Aug 12, 2005)

*SSG Scott ‘Bear’ Rameh*
Tough 3/Infantry 2

*STR* 12/+1
*DEX* 13/+1
*CON* 16/+3 (+1 attribute bump at 4th level)
*INT* 14/+2 
*WIS* 10/+0
*CHA* 8/-1

*Hit Points* 45 (13+8+8+8+8)

*Defense* 20 (+2 Tough, +1 Infantry, +1 Dex, +6 Tactical vest)
*- Touch * 14 (+1 Tough, +1 Infantry, +1 Dex)
*Speed* 25 (30 unarmored)
*Initiative* +1 (Dex +1)

*BAB* +3 (Tough +2, Infantry +1)
*- Melee* +4
-- Unarmed +4, Dmg. 1d3+1 non-lethal, Crit. 20
-- Combat knife +4, Dmg. 1d4+1 piercing, Crit. 19-20, Rng. 10-ft., Size T
-- Rifle butt +4, Dmg. 1d6+1 bludgeoning, Crit. 20
-- Improvised weapon +0, Dmg. 2 D/1-2+1 T/1d3+1 S/1d4+1 M/1d6+1 L bludgeoning, Crit. 20, Rng. 10-ft. max
*- Ranged* +4
-- M4 Carbine assault rifle +4, Dmg. 2d8, Crit. 20, Rng. 60-ft., Rate S/A, Mag. 30 box, Size L
-- M203 Grenade launcher +0, Dmg. 3d6 slashing, burst radius 10 ft., Reflex DC 15, Rng. 70, Rate Single, Mag. 1 Int 
-- H&K USP pistol +4, Dmg 2d6, Crit. 20, Rng. 20, Rate SA, Mag 15 box, Size S
-- Fragmentation grenade +4, Dmg. 4d6 slashing, burst radius 20 ft., Reflex DC 15, Rng. 10-ft., Size T 
-- Combat knife +4, 1d4 piercing, Crit. 19-20, Rng. 10-ft., Size T
-- Improvised weapon +0, Dmg. 1 D/1-2 T/1d3 S/1d4 M/1d6 L bludgeoning, Crit.20, Rng. 10-ft. max

*Fortitude* +7 (+2 Tough, +2 Infantry, +3 Con)
*Reflex* +4 (+1 Tough, +2 Infantry, +1 Dex)
*Will* +2 (+1 Tough, +1 Infantry)

*Reputation* +1 (+1 Tough)
*AP* 26
*Wealth*
*Allegiances:* Military, Family, Peace in Iraq

*Starting Occupation:* Military –
_Class skills_: Knowledge (Tactics), Demolitions
Bonus Feat: Personal Firearms Proficiency
Wealth Bonus +1

*Skills*- 20+5+5+7+7

Balance* +1
Bluff -1
Climb* +1
Computer Use +2 
Concentration* +3
Craft +2
Craft (structural)* +5 (3 ranks, +2 Int)
Decipher Script +2
Demolitions* +7 (5 ranks, +2 Int) 
Diplomacy -1
Disable Device* +7 (5 ranks, +2 Int)
Disguise -1
Drive +1
Forgery +2
Gamble +0
Gather Information -1
Hide +1
Intimidate* +8 (9 ranks, -1 Cha)
Jump* +1
Knowledge- Streetwise +5 (3 ranks, +2 Int)
Knowledge- Tactics* +8 (6 ranks, +2 Int)
Listen +0
Move Silently +1 
Navigate* +5 (3 ranks, +2 Int)
Perform -1
Profession- soldier (3 ranks) 
Read/Write Language (Arabic) 1
Research +2
Ride +1
Search* +4 (2 ranks, +2 Int)
Sense Motive +0
Speak Language (Arabic) 1
Spot* +7 (6 ranks, +1 training)
Survival* +5 (5 ranks) 
Swim* +1
Treat Injury +0 

*Feats* –
Simple Weapons Proficiency (automatic – free)
Personal Firearms Proficiency (bonus feat – Military occupation)
MOS- Rifleman (initial feat, Disable Device, Spot, and Search are class skills)
Advanced Firearms Proficiency (initial feat) 
Armor Proficiency- Light (2nd level Tough feat)
Armor Proficiency- Medium (3rd level feat)

*Talents*
Remain Conscious (The Tough hero gains the ability to continue to perform actions when he or she would otherwise be considered unconscious and dying. When the Tough hero's hit points reach -1, the hero can perform as though he or she were disabled, making either an attack action or a move action every round until the hero reaches -10 hit points (and dies) or the hero's hit points return to 1 or higher. The hero can choose to succumb to unconsciousness if he or she thinks that doing so might prevent him or her from taking more damage.)
Damage Reduction 1/- (The Tough hero ignores 1 point of damage from melee and ranged weapons.)

*Class Abilities*
Defensive Position +1 (Infantry training grants the bonus listed on the class table to Defense and Reflex saving throws when a character is fighting from cover.)
Advanced Training- Marksmanship (You gain a +2 bonus on all ranged attack rolls at ranges of one range increment or further when using any ranged weapon for which you possess the Weapon Focus feat. This bonus may only be used to offset range penalties.)

*Encumbrance* –
Light <43-lbs./medium 44-86 lbs./heavy 87-130 lbs.
Lift –
-- overhead 130 lbs.
-- off-ground 260 lbs.
-- push or drag 650 lbs.

*Equipment* –
M4 Carbine assault rifle with AN/PEQ-2 laser (+1 to attack rolls within 30 feet), ACOG 4x scope (increase range increments by 1.5, must take attack action to acquire target), Illuminator (mounted flashlight), Surefire suppressor (Listen check at DC15 to locate source), and M203 Grenade Launcher; 7 30 round magazines, 10 40mm grenades.
H&K USP 9mm pistol in tactical holster; 4 magazines
Clothing (ACU - pants, smock, sun hat (all desert camouflage pattern), t-shirt, skivvies, socks, plus extra socks and skivvies)
Desert (hiking) boots
-2 canteens
-combat knife
-Camelback hydration system
PASGT helmet with mount
-sand goggles 
-AN/PVS-7 NVG’s
Tactical vest
-3 Fragmentation grenades
-1 Smoke grenade
-25 zip ties
-Digital camera
-Pro Walkie-talkie with headset
-Multipurpose tool
-Tactical Maps of area
-5 Chemical light sticks
-GPS receiver
-compass
MOLLE (backpack)
-Demolitions kit
-First Aid kit
-2 days worth of MRE’s
-Flashlight w/ extra batteries
-ACU jacket 
-sleeping bag 

*Background Information*

Born in Huron, Michigan to Christian Lebanese immigrants in 1975, Scott was a troubled child who had trouble fitting into the structures of normal life. After a brush with the law immediately after high school, he decided the Army was the right move and joined in 1993, reaching active service in the infantry immediately after Operation: Desert Storm. He served for over five years in the Balkans, then was stationed in Turkey where he was assigned the training of new soldiers in marksmanship and basic tactics in the field. Scott learned Arabic before he could speak English, and his skills were put to good use in 2001 after the attacks of 09/11. He was immediately put into action in Afghanistan, where he worked alongside military intelligence in the interrogation of foreign fighters from Syria, Jordan, and Saudi Arabia. Since 2004, he has been in Iraq, fighting a mostly defensive battle against the insurgency that refuses to die.

*Personality*

A career soldier, Scott is well respected within the Company, having served with the majority of officers when they were recruits. He has short patience for those he counts as fools, which has limited his advancement. After a long 17 years of service, he has pretty much decided he will die an Infantryman, and shows a dedication to his unit and Army beyond most. Scott tends towards a gruff attitude, especially with fresh troops, which has led to his nickname of ‘Bear’. He is known amongst the men as a mean, tough old bastard, and does his best to keep up that image. The only person in Echo Company that sleeps in his armor, Scott has an edurance that boggles the mind, especially for young recruits still getting accustomed to the desert climate and heavy packs.

_U.S. Army Sgt. Scott Rameh from Echo Company 2nd Battalion 1st Army Division detains a prisoner Janurary 7, 2010 in Hilla, Iraq. The soldiers conducted an counter-assault to capture the man suspected of coordinating an improvised explosive device (IED) attack in the area earlier that day. (US Army photo, released)_


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## Masada (Aug 12, 2005)

So we'll probably be starting next week some time to wait for Ranger Rick.

My personal opinion about posting frequency is about 1-2 times a day during the week.  No guarantees for weekends.

Intense interaction scenes sometimes go smoother in chat.  I'm on Yahoo! at work and it's about the only IM that gets through.  My Yahoo! ID is in my account profile, but if you're too lazy for that it is curtis_owings.

Watch my character post for changes.  If we're not finished with characters until Monday, I may tweak a bit.  I whipped through the training manual pretty fast.  I won't do a complete rebuild or anything, but I'm on the bubble about Far Shot.  So I might tweak a skill or feat.

Vig, be sure to give us a character lock down date so we'll know we shouldn't make a change after X.


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## Vigilance (Aug 12, 2005)

I think the lockdown date for characters will be early next week, for Rick.

On equipment, I decided you guys can pick what you want, if there's anything I have a question about, I'll make a requisition check based on rank (which I'll determine when characters are done, so this is a bit of cart-horse situation).

You can automatically assume that the M-4/203 over under, 4 grenades of various types, a suit of medium armor and nightvision are in. 

Chuck


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## Bobitron (Aug 12, 2005)

Chuck, what are we doing about armor? I've always been irked by the prerquisites for armor proficiencies. I burned a feat to get Armor Prof: Light, but it won't help at all with the medium armor as assigned by the Army. 

Also, are we using the armor options found in the Combat Procedures Manual?


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## Vigilance (Aug 13, 2005)

The equipment I stated above was just "gimmes" that you could put on your character with complete confidence it would be approved. If you only have light armor proficiency then you dont have to wear medium armor. 

If by armor options you mean armor as DR? No I'd rather use AC.

Chuck


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## Bobitron (Aug 13, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> The equipment I stated above was just "gimmes" that you could put on your character with complete confidence it would be approved. If you only have light armor proficiency then you dont have to wear medium armor.
> 
> If by armor options you mean armor as DR? No I'd rather use AC.
> 
> Chuck





OK, thanks.


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## Vigilance (Aug 13, 2005)

There was some confusion about who was "in".

I hate phrasing it like that since no one is "out" but the current roster to the best of my knowledge is:

1. Shaman
2. Kingpaul
3. Masada
4. Bobitron
5. Ranger Rick
6. Uranium Dragon

This is the final roster for now. 

Chuck


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## uraniumdragon (Aug 13, 2005)

*Oliver David Green - Rank to be determined*

OLIVER DAVID GREEN - Odie 

*Smart Hero 3/Specialist 2 *
CR 5; 
Medium-size humanoid; 
HD 3d6+3 plus 2d6+2; HP 23; Mas 12; 
Init +2; Spd 30 ft; 
Defense 18, touch 16, flatfooted 14 (+0 size, +2 Dex, +2 class, +2 equipment, +2 Smart Defense); 
BAB +2; Grap +4; 
Atk +4 melee (1d4+2, knife), or +4 ranged (2d8, M4 Carbine); 
FS 5 ft by 5 ft; Reach 5 ft; 
SQ none; 
AL USA; 
SV Fort +4, Ref +5, Will +5; 
AP 2; Rep +1; 
Str 14, Dex 14, Con 12, Int 15, Wis 10, Cha 8.
Wealth +6

*Occupation: *
Military (Hide, Move Silently)

*Skills: *
Balance +3
Computer Use +8
Concentration +3
Craft (chemical) +4
Craft (electronic) +4
Craft (mechanical) +4
Craft (structural) +4
Demolitions +8
Disable Device +8
Hide +6
Investigate +6
Knowledge (Current Events) +3
Knowledge (History) +3
Knowledge (Physical Sciences) +3
Knowledge (Popular Culture) +5
Knowledge (Streetwise) +3
Knowledge (Tactics) +3
Knowledge (Technology) +8
Listen +2
Move Silently +6
Profession +6
Read/Write Language +2 (English, Russian, Arabic)
Repair +11
Research +4
Search +4
Sleight of Hand +3
Speak Language +2 (English, Russian, Arabic)
Spot +2
Survival +1
Treat Injury +1
Tumble +3

*Feats: *
Armor Proficiency (light)
Desk Jockey (+3 on requisition)
Educated (Knowledge [Popular Culture])
MOS Engineering (Demolitions, Disable Device, Knowledge [Technology])
Personal Firearms Proficiency

*Talents (Smart Hero): *
Savant (Repair)
Plan

*Talents (Specialist): *
Smart Defense (Int Mod to Defense)
Combat Engineering 1 (+1 to Craft skills)

*Possessions: *
ACU - pants, smock, sun hat (all desert camouflage pattern), t-shirt, skivvies, socks
- sunglasses, wristwatch, notepad, mechanical pencil
Desert (hiking) boots
Undercover vest [3-lb]
MOLLE (backpack) [3-lb – 37.75 -lb total] -
-- walkie-talkie (professional) with headset [1-lb]
-- 4 box magazines (30 rounds each) [2-lb]
-- 4 grenades (2 fragmentation, 1 red smoke, 1 white smoke) [6-lb total]
-- 2 canteens [4-lb]
-- MRE [-]
-- combat knife [1-lb]
- patrol pack [8.5-lb total]
-- medical kit [5-lb.]
-- hydration tube (canteen) [2-lb]
-- flashlight [1-lb]
-- digital camera [0.5-lb]
- rucksack [15.25-lb]
-- desert camouflage pack cover [-]
-- 6 box magazines (30 rounds each) [3-lb]
-- MREs (3 days supply) [0.25-lb]
-- ACU jacket [2-lb]
-- PASGT helmet with chin strap and desert camouflage-pattern cover [3 lb]
-- night-vision goggles [3-lb]
-- sand goggles [-]
-- spare socks and underwear [-]
-- sleeping bag [4-lb]
M4 Carbine assault rifle with box magazine (30 rounds) [7-lb]
Military license (+2)
- Total encumbrance 50.5-lb

*Description: *

6'2, 245 lbs, chocolate brown skin, deep brown hair. (Sgt. Ryan Whitaker from Final Fantasy movie - http://images.rottentomatoes.com/images/movie/gallery/1108683/photo_06_hires.jpg)

Oliver David Green (OD Green or Odie) grew up watching the sun set through the legs of the St Louis Gateway Arch. East St. Louis, a severely depressed city, didn't produce many winners. But it did produce Odie. 

Odie's father managed to get a job at the Dupont factory on the east side and worked his way up the ladder. His fortune trickled down to his children, his son Oliver and daughter April. Oliver was torn between those fortunes and the opportunities it gave him, a technical background in computer and electronics, and the ghettos that the burned-out buildings created. He grew up tough and mean, but smart. He knew where he was going, and it was out.

Once in the military, he was transferred to Fort Leonard Wood where he was assigned to the Combat Engineer company. He developed his passion for things electronic, added a few classes on demolitions and devices, and picked up a few phrases in Russian along the way.

Odie is usually all smiles. He has a good sense of humor, knows when to laugh at himself, but knows when to cut the funny stuff and get down to business. Making bombs not blow up in your face is a good thing. Doing it is better.

(As close to demo specialist as I can get him. Okay, could be better, but why. Oh,and I borrowed from someone for equipment, with some adjustment. Thanks.)


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## Bobitron (Aug 13, 2005)

Updated character sheet with equipment and attacks. Let me know if there is anything you want removed, Chuck.


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## The Shaman (Aug 13, 2005)

*Vigilance*, another question for you: should David be carrying a radio, a tool kit, or both? Which of these makes the most "sense" with the beginning of the scenario? Nevermind - changed character concepts altogether...


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## Bobitron (Aug 14, 2005)

A couple more changes to my sheet- I took Med Armor Prof and upgraded to a Tactical Vest. Changed some equipment around a bit, as well. I think I'm ready to go.


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## The Shaman (Aug 14, 2005)

Looking over our characters this afternoon, I noticed we had two tanks, one sneak, and two techs with overlapping skills - our highest Treat Injury score was +4 and everyone took Cha as their dump stat.

With that in mind, I got rid of my tech and replaced him with a medic instead - he also has a decent Cha and ranks in Diplomacy and Sense Motive.

We still could use someone with good vehicle ops skills.


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## kingpaul (Aug 14, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> We still could use someone with good vehicle ops skills.



I'm willing to change out my Strong 3/Assaut 2 character for a driver.


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## Vigilance (Aug 14, 2005)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> I'm willing to change out my Strong 3/Assaut 2 character for a driver.




I believe Ranger Rick said he was going to do a driver. 

Plus it won't be a requirement, I just think it will be handy 

Further addendum to the initial set-up has been edited in, marked so you know what has been added.

Chuck


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## Vigilance (Aug 14, 2005)

Someone asked about my desired posting frequency-

1-2 posts a day per player will be about my keeping-track limit I think. 

Chuck


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## The Shaman (Aug 14, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> kingpaul said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



*kingpaul*, why don't we wait and see what *Ranger Rick* comes up with? Perhaps you could prepare a skeleton of a driver-type character just in case - y'know, since it might be "handy" to have.


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## kingpaul (Aug 14, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> *kingpaul*, why don't we wait and see what *Ranger Rick* comes up with? Perhaps you could prepare a skeleton of a driver-type character just in case - y'know, since it might be "handy" to have.



How's this?


> *Fast Hero 3/Recon Training 2 CR 5;* Medium-size humanoid; HD 3d8+0 plus 2d8+0; HP 23; Mas 10; Init +3; Spd 35 ft; Defense 18, touch 18, flatfooted 15 (+0 size, +3 Dex, +5 class); BAB +3; Grap +2; Atk +2 melee (1d6+-1, weapon), or +6 ranged (1d6+0, weapon); FS 5 ft by 5 ft; Reach 5 ft; SQ ; AL US Army; SV Fort +3, Ref +7, Will +2; AP 2; Rep +1; Str 8, Dex 16, Con 10, Int 12, Wis 13, Cha 14.
> *Occupation:* Military (Drive, Navigate)
> *Skills:* Craft (mechanical) +7, Drive +13, Hide +8, Knowledge (Tactics) +9, Move Silently +8, Navigate +9, Pilot +9, Survival +5, Tumble +7
> *Feats:* Armor Proficiency (light), MOS Armor (Drive, Knowledge [Tactics], Navigate), Personal Firearms Proficiency, Vehicle Expert, Vehicle Specialization (military vehicles)
> ...


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## The Shaman (Aug 14, 2005)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> How's this?



"Baby, you could drive my car..."

 

I'd suggest asking *Vigilance* if he plans on having us flying an aircraft of some kind - if not, you could probably use those ranks in Pilot elsewhere, like Repair or Craft (mechanical).


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## kingpaul (Aug 14, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> "Baby, you could drive my car..."



LOL


			
				The Shaman said:
			
		

> I'd suggest asking *Vigilance* if he plans on having us flying an aircraft of some kind - if not, you could probably use those ranks in Pilot elsewhere, like Repair or Craft (mechanical).



I was thinking about someone who could manage one of the helicopters as well..AirCav.


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## The Shaman (Aug 14, 2005)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> I was thinking about someone who could manage one of the helicopters as well..AirCav.



Hmmm...maybe we'll just have to "borrow" a helo...

Hey, who has the best Requisition score?!?


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## uraniumdragon (Aug 15, 2005)

For some reason, I think my skills are listed wrong. I had points in climb and jump, but they show as zero. Also I need to add my 4th level Ability bonus. 

Scrubbing up the paper and doin' it by hand tonight. Okay, maybe tomorrow morning.
Sorry, first rain since June today and I got busy.


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## Masada (Aug 15, 2005)

I was considering trading out my Far Shot feat for Aircraft Operation (Helicopter) and tossing some skill in to Pilot.  If it makes the group a little stronger, I can do that.


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## kingpaul (Aug 15, 2005)

And I'm not so attached to either of the 2 character I rolled up to not make a 3rd to fill out the group's complement of abilities better.


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## uraniumdragon (Aug 16, 2005)

Updated the info, including a link to a photo.
I think I'm ready to go.


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## Bobitron (Aug 16, 2005)

uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> Updated the info, including a link to a photo.
> I think I'm ready to go.




I've got to speak up here, Uranium. Since we are going to be assigned (initially, at least) to the upkeep of electronic gear, it makes sense that you would use your attribute bonus to go towards Int (extra skill points and a +3 Int bonus to lots of critical skills) and maybe max out skills like Repair, Knowledge (Technology), Computer Use, Disable Device, Craft (Mechanical), and Craft (Electronics). A +4 or +8 in those skills is nothing to sneeze at, but by focusing your points a bit more effectively to get synergy bonuses, you should be able to get them much higher. It's great to see a flexible character, but we have to consider you are part of a team here.

Please don't take this wrong, I'm just making a suggestion. If you feel the flexibility you built into Odie is his main strength, then ignore me. 

Edit: Shaman is a character build master, maybe he has some more ideas.


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## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> Since we are going to be assigned (initially, at least) to the upkeep of electronic gear, it makes sense that you would use your attribute bonus to go towards Int (extra skill points and a +3 Int bonus to lots of critical skills) and maybe max out skills like Repair, Knowledge (Technology), Computer Use, Disable Device, Craft (Mechanical), and Craft (Electronics). A +4 or +8 in those skills is nothing to sneeze at, but by focusing your points a bit more effectively to get synergy bonuses, you should be able to get them much higher. It's great to see a flexible character, but we have to consider you are part of a team here.



*Bobitron* makes a good point about teamwork - it's true in any RPG of course but in a military game, it's really a part of the roleplaying experience as well.

Part of working as a team means understanding the various roles the team members will play. As the tech, OD will have responsibility not only for fixing any broken sensors (per the adventure intro) but for maintaining and repairing unit equipment, finding and disarming booby traps, operating communications equipment to keep us in touch with our support, and identifying technological devices that we may come across in the field. That makes Search, Disable Device, Repair and Computer Use the four main skills the tech in this game is likely to need most often, and on which the team will be depending.

While there may be a need to build something from scratch, we may be limited in what we can take along in terms of tool kits and supplies, which means Craft (electronics), Craft (mechanical) and Knowledge (technology) skills will be most beneficial in adding skill synergy bonuses - these skills don't necessarily need to be maxed-out, but in order to provide the bonus to Repair _et al._, you may want to consider putting at least five ranks into one or more of them. Again, you improve the chances of the team accomplishing its mission by making OD efficient at his primary role.

I'm a little confused by some of the skills you selected, *uraniumdragon*. For example, it looks like you have four ranks in Investigate - what sorts of clues will you be looking to analyze or evidence to collect during the adventure? Research is more likely to be useful to OD than Investigate. A single rank in Tumble isn't really worthwhile in my experience - you'll rarely make the DC 15 check to use it in combat, and it doesn't provide any bonus to Total Defense (which requires five ranks).

It looks like you've scattered skill points around a number of Knowledge skills as well - it might be more effective to focus on two or three, rather than trying to have a little of everything. IMX Gather Information, Research, and Knowledge (current events) generate similar results - if I have the skills ranks available, I'll usually put points into one or two of the three, maxing one if possible. Personally I'll take either Knowledge (streetwise) or Knowledge (pop culture), but not both - either one will usually add a synergy bonus to Gather Information.

I'm guessing that the rank in Sleight of Hand represents some (possibly larcenous?) aspect of OD's past in East St. Louis?   Doc Meadows' ranks in Craft (structural) and Knowledge (theology and theosophy) are there for the same reason, representing his experience as a firefighter and a missionary - that they also come in handy for digging foxholes or gaining insight into religious issues during the adventure is just an added benefit.   I like to sink ranks into "background" skills, but what I try to keep in mind is this: am I roleplaying my character as he was five years ago, or as he is now? 

Finally, when assigning skill ranks and feats, I try to consider the effect of taking 10 or 20 and the DCs I'm likely to face. For example, in my first draft of Doc Meadows, his Treat Injury score was +18 - after thinking about it a bit, I realized that it was overkill, that with a +15 and the ability to take 10 under duress I could consistently hit DC 25, which means that without rolling a die he can treat or stabilize injured characters consistently even without his medical kit. That meant I could swap one talent for another and increase the HP Doc restores instead. Knowing what kinds of DCs you can hit when you take 10 or 20 can influence feat and talent selection to make your character more effective.

*uraniumdragon*, if you find any of these suggestions useful, great - if not, ignore them completely. OD is YOUR CHARACTER to play, not mine, not *Bobitron*'s, so make the choices YOU want to make.


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## kingpaul (Aug 16, 2005)

So, any opinion on which character I should play?


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## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> So, any opinion on which character I should play?



I'm partial to your Fast/Recon vehicle ops character (Navigate +9 - good skill!), but we'll see what *Ranger Rick* brings to the table - we may need the tank more.

If you were thinking of a third character, a Strong/Charismatic would be a good addition - the Leadership talent tree offers some nice bonuses to the team. If I wasn't running a medic, that's what I'd run - he'd be a military policeman.

As it stands, we have two tanks as our primary punishers (Bear Rameh and your as-yet-unnamed Str3/Ass2), a scout (Chicken Legs Jackson) for infiltration and sharpshooting, a tech with decent combat skills (Odie Green), and a healer with some face skills (Doc Meadows) who's VERY vulnerable to area effects - I imagine I'll be burning APs by the handful on Reflex saves when the RPGs begin to fly. :\  I'm guessing that *Ranger Rick*'s character will have decent combat skills as well.

As of now, I would say that our fire teams would be Bear and your unnamed tank as our assault section with Odie and *Ranger Rick*'s character providing supporting fire - Chicken Legs and Doc may function as a fire team as well, but most often will be found operating on the periphery of the other four.

Once we have all the characters done, we can discuss this in more detail.


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## uraniumdragon (Aug 16, 2005)

To All: I appreciate the suggestions you have made. I take no offense. My concern when rolling him up was to not be pigeon-holed into a character that has no use in a campaign. If we were to start at level 1 and I saw what direction the GM was going with his campaign and the players were going with their characters, then I could adjust as I go. Since I have no idea what computers or electronics Chuck has in mind in Iraq, and knowing the extreme use (and effectiveness) of IED in Iraq, I thought to "multi-class" into explosive expert as well. Kinda of why I haven't suggested making up a driver or pilot. If we don't need a pilot, why waste a feat or two into useless directions. 

I already adjusted out the jump and climb skills because armor wipes them right out. And when forced to use the basic scores, that includes an 8, Charisma sucks and I have to expend points in Gather Info just to break even. I would hope for a "Faceman" character to do the talking for us. Knowledge skills tells me what I learned before I got there. Gather info means I have to spend time asking around to a crowd that may not exist. In my opinion, of course... <grin>

I'll take your comments into mind and reconsider today, since all of the characters are not in yet and Chuck wasn't declared a lock.

Thanks again.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 16, 2005)

Cool, UD. THanks for listening. Like I said, don't sweat it if he is already as you like.

kingpaul, I would agree with Shaman. Since you are being so flexible in what you play (thanks!), I would wait until RR comes up with something. Fast/Recon vehicle op or a leader type with decent combat abilities make the most sense to me, but if RR's guy leans towards the weaker side in combat, another weapons guy would make sense. Maybe a gunner with a M249 and the feats to make use of it?

I had initially written up Bear as a Charismatic/Leader and was pretty happy with what came out. He had high Bluff, Demolitions, Disable, Diplomacy, Gather Information, Intimidate, Streetwise and Tactics (all at +8 or over). My only real complaint about the Leader class is the need for the Teamwork and Tactician feats. Unless everyone in the unit burns a feat on Teamwork, they are both useless, as is the Voice of Command ability.

If you guys would rather, I can switch over to the Leader. But I think to make it work, everyone would have to take Teamwork (US Army).


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## Ranger Rick (Aug 16, 2005)

Sorry, I got tied up with some other stuff and I am running behind.


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## Ranger Rick (Aug 16, 2005)

*Help...*

Padraic H. Pearse
Born August 16, 1991

Grandson of irish immigrants, he was the son of a bar owner.  Padraic, as a little boy fell in love with racing as soon as he could, he began working with engines.  Before he was 16 he was driving and racing them around dirt tracks and the local interstate.  Never excelling in school, he decided to learn how to be a mechanic under Uncle Sam’s Tutor ledge.  He joined up and after school he was assigned a mechanized infantry unit fresh out of school.  The unit was deployed to a small country as a relief mission.  On deployment he was assigned to drive for visiting VIPs.  One of these VIPs was impressed with the young mechanic.  After this deployment he received orders to report to Iraq.


Fast Hero 3/Smart Hero 2 CR 5; Medium-size humanoid; 
HD 2d6 3d8; HP 31; Init +3; 
Spd 30 ft; 
Defense 18, (+0 size, +3 Dex, +5 class, +0 equipment); 
BAB +3; Grap +4; Atk +4 melee (1d3+1, Unarmed), or +6 ranged; 
Reach 5 ft; SV Fort +1, Ref +5, Will +4; Rep +2; 
Str 12, Dex 16 (+1 lvl), Con 10, Int 14, Wis 13, Cha 8. 

Occupation: Adventurer (Survival, Spot) 

Skills: Balance 5 +8,
Craft (Electronic) 5 +7, 
Craft (Mechanical) 5 +7, 
Drive (Dex) 8 +14, 
Knowledge (tactics) 5 +7, 
Navigate (Int) 8 +10, 
Profession (Wis)(Mechanic) 5 +6, 
Read/Write Language +2 (Spanish/Latin), 
Repair (Int) 5 +9, 
Speak Language +2 (Spanish/Farsi), 
Search 5 +7, 
Spot 4 +5, 
Survival 8 +9, 
Tumble 8 +11

Feats: 1st level - Armor Proficiency (light), Vehicle Expert. 3rd lvl - Vehicle Dodge, Occupation feat - Personal Firearms Proficiency, Bonus Smart 2nd lvl - Weapon Focus (Rifle), Bonus Fast 2nd lvl Elusive Target

Talents (Fast Hero):  Evasion, Uncanny Dodge 1
Talents (Smart Hero): Research Talent Tree – Repair,
Possessions: M4 Carbine assault rifle with AN/PEQ-2 laser (+1 to attack rolls within 30 feet), ACOG 4x scope (increase range increments by 1.5, must take attack action to acquire target), Surefire suppressor (Listen check at DC15 to locate source), 
H&K USP 9mm pistol in tactical holster; 4 magazines
Clothing (ACU - pants, smock, sun hat (all desert camouflage pattern), t-shirt, skivvies, socks, plus extra socks and skivvies)
Desert (hiking) boots
-2 canteens
-K-Bar
-Camelback hydration system
PASGT helmet with mount
-sand goggles 
-AN/PVS-7 NVG’s w/ extra batteries
Tactical vest
-2 Fragmentation grenades
-3 WP Smoke grenade
-25 zip ties
-Pro Walkie-talkie with headset
-entrenching tool
-Tactical Maps of area
-10 Chemical light sticks (5 IR/4 red/1 yellow)
-compass
MOLLE (backpack)
-First Aid kit
-2 days worth of MRE’s
-Flashlight w/ extra batteries
-ACU jacket 




This is so rough I do not know were to begin.  I am having this guy as a driver and meet the requirements of a SOCOM guy.  Only having the SRD I am running way short.  Any help is appreciated.


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## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> My concern when rolling him up was to not be pigeon-holed into a character that has no use in a campaign.



Somehow I don't think that's going to be an issue! 


			
				uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> Since I have no idea what computers or electronics Chuck has in mind in Iraq, and knowing the extreme use (and effectiveness) of IED in Iraq, I thought to "multi-class" into explosive expert as well.



It's a great idea, and totally appropriate to a combat engineer.

You have 88 skill points to work with (assuming 15 Int) - even if you max Demolitions, Disable Device, Repair, Computer Use, and Search, that leaves you another 48 skill points unassigned. (This is one reason I really like Smart heroes!)







			
				uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> And when forced to use the basic scores, that includes an 8, Charisma sucks and I have to expend points in Gather Info just to break even. I would hope for a "Faceman" character to do the talking for us. Knowledge skills tells me what I learned before I got there. Gather info means I have to spend time asking around to a crowd that may not exist. In my opinion, of course... <grin>



Yeah, we HOPE we're not facing any large crowds...

I made Cha Doc's secondary stat and ended up with decent (though hardly stratospheric) scores in Diplomacy and Sense Motive  - if *Bobitron* decides to make a change, then I'll adjust my points elsewhere, but at least for now we have that function covered. For Odie and his Cha 8, ranks in Knowledge (current events) or Research can functionally replace Gather Information.







			
				uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> I'll take your comments into mind and reconsider today...



This is all meant to be suggestions only - feel free to tell me to go pound sand.


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 16, 2005)

Well, I see Ranger Rick's got his draft character in. What do folks think this party needs? I do see a lack of a 'leader' type. But, as has been mentioned, I don't think anyone's taken Teamwork.


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## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> This is so rough I do not know were to begin....Any help is appreciated.



Okay, I apologize right now for being "annoying gamer guy who tells everyone how to min/max their characters..."

...but since you asked...  

First, I'm glad someone thought to take Farsi - when I changed characters, I lost my Linguist talent.... Good call!  

Second, you might want to consider adding Personal Firearms Proficiency, since your character as of now takes -4 on all attacks with firearms  and you wasted the Weapon Focus feat (it requires proficiency first).

In _B&G1_, characters were required to take the Military starting occupation to represent Basic - it looks like that may have been dropped in _B&G2_ (*Vigilance*, is that correct?), but it's still a good idea to use that SO to take PFP to avoid burning a feat slot somewhere else.

Third, I think *Vigilance* said no SOCOM to start, though he did outline a progression for Ranger that is reachable by level 5 - however, it won't work with anything other than a Strong hero, since you need full BAB (5+) to reach it by 5th level. It would also mean using your two initial feats and 3rd level bonus feat, plus your 1st and 3rd level talents to qualify. It would also mean no Vehicle Expert or Vehicle Dodge feats, both of which might be useful.

I hope some of this helps - after you makes some decisions about what you want your character to be, I can help you with suggestions from _B&G2_, if you like.


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> If you guys would rather, I can switch over to the Leader. But I think to make it work, everyone would have to take Teamwork (US Army).



I can't afford to take Teamwork - with Doc's poor Dex, I need my armor feats!  

You'll just have to lead by example, *Bobitron*! Hooah!


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 16, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> Okay, I apologize right now for being "annoying gamer guy who tells everyone how to min/max their characters..."
> 
> ...but since you asked...
> 
> ...





Give me a minute to figure out what feat to swap out for Personal Firearms Proficiency.  I realize I can not get this guy in to SOCOM.  I also remember that no one is allowed in.  But I am trying to get him to fulfill as many pre reqs as possible.  

My main goal is to make him a mechanic 1st/ driver 2nd/ SOCOM qualified 3rd.

Should I swap out some of the smart/fast hero classes with something else?  Or is there a better feat I need to see about getting?


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> I realize I can not get this guy in to SOCOM.... But I am trying to get him to fulfill as many pre reqs as possible.



Got it.

I planned on doing the same with Doc (goal of joining 10th Mtn. Div.), but there was no way I could see to take the necessary feats without sacrificing the armor proficiencies - he's just too vulnerable without that flak vest.







			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Should I swap out some of the smart/fast hero classes with something else?  Or is there a better feat I need to see about getting?



The Recon Training AdC offers Drive as a class skill, but very little else that would be of immediate benefit to your character - you may be better off with your existing classes.

In B&G2 there is the Combat Driving feat, which allows you to add your Dex bonus and your Defense bonus to the vehicle defense score - looks pretty good. There's also the MOS Maintenance and MOS Armor feats - either one allows you to select three new class skills such as Drive, Repair, Craft or Navigate, or take a +1 competence bonus on your existing class skills.


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 16, 2005)

*Vigilance*, a quick comment about _B&G2:MTM_: Bookmarks would've been nice, as would a TOC and/or index.


----------



## Masada (Aug 16, 2005)

Shaman, you must be looking at the Print version PDF.  My Screen version has bookmarks.


----------



## Masada (Aug 17, 2005)

I updated equipment in my original character post.  I think I'm good to go.


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## The Shaman (Aug 17, 2005)

Masada said:
			
		

> Shaman, you must be looking at the Print version PDF.  My Screen version has bookmarks.



D'oh! You're right...my bad...


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 17, 2005)

Just looking this over, it looks like you guys are getting close.

Rick, your character looks pretty good, but he does need a little more work. As I plan to make the first adventure post tomorrow, please finish him off, and Paul, decide on a character 

(And if you were to ask me to chime in, Id take the combat specialist you created first, as there really is no other character that qualifies as a bonafide "heavy").

Chuck


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 17, 2005)

Augustus Kurtz

Description: 5'8", 217 lbs., shaved head (blonde stubble), green eyes, 24 yrs, caucasian

Background: Augustus' family came to the US from Germany right after WWI. Being a German family, all family members were expected to learn German. Augustus' grandfather served the marines in the Pacific theater of WWII and his father in Viet Nam. Both his father and grandfather were officers, and were hoping that Augustus would go to Annapolis, but he decided to go in right out of high school. Growing up, he set his sights on joining the Marines, and fulfilling a family tradition. While at Paris Island, the spectre of NBC weapons was brought up, and he asked to go to NBC school to learn how to deal with this threat.

*Strong Hero 3/Assault Training 2 CR 5*; Medium-size humanoid; HD 3d8+6 plus 2d10+4 plus 2; HP 37; Mas 14; Init +2; Spd 30 ft; Defense 18, touch 15, flatfooted 16 (+0 size, +2 Dex, +3 class, +3 equipment); BAB +5; Grap +7; Atk +7 melee (1d6+3, rifle butt) or +7 melee (1d4+3, pistol whip), or +7 melee (1d4+3/19-20, knife), or +7 ranged (2d8, M16A2), or +7 ranged (2d6, Colt M1911); FS 5 ft by 5 ft; Reach 5 ft; SQ ; AL USMC; SV Fort +7, Ref +3, Will +1; AP 2; Rep +0; Str 15, Dex 14, Con 14, Int 12, Wis 10, Cha 8.

*Occupation*: Military (Knowledge [Tactics], Survival)

*Skills*: Craft (chemical) +6, Craft (electronic) +6, Knowledge (Tactics) +7, Navigate +3, Read/Write Language +3 (Arabic, English, German, Spanish), Speak Language +3 (Arabic, English, German, Spanish), Survival +8, Treat Injury +4

*Feats*: Armor Proficiency (light), Desert Warfare College (Drive, Knowledge [Tactics], Survival), MOS NBC (Craft [chemical], Craft [electronic], Treat Injury), MOS Rifleman (Climb, Knowledge [Tactics], Survival), Personal Firearms Proficiency, Simple Weapons Proficiency

*Talents (Strong Hero)*: Melee Smash, Extreme Effort

*Talents (Assault Training)*: Tough as Nails, Shock Assault 1

*Possessions*: M16A2 with M-4/203 over under, Colt M1911, 2 frag grenades, 1 smoke grenade, 1 thermite grenade, knife, undercover vest; Wealth +6


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 17, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Just looking this over, it looks like you guys are getting close.
> 
> Rick, your character looks pretty good, but he does need a little more work. As I plan to make the first adventure post tomorrow, please finish him off, .....
> 
> Chuck





I added possesions.  What am I lacking?

Should I replace some levels with something in the BAG books?

If there is a helpful pdf can someone e-mail it to me?


----------



## Masada (Aug 17, 2005)

Part of the purpose of the game is to play test a module for Blood & Guts 2: Millitary Training Manual.  It's available on PDF at RPGNow.  It's only $5.  The rest of us are using it.  It should help you create a soldier on track to be SOCOM.  The B&G rules allow you take MOS packages (like occupations you take as feats) to help get the skills you want, plus a slug of new feats focused on millitary training and finally a large selection of class abilities called "Advanced Training" with even more millitary focused abilities (like Marksmenship, Sharp Shooter, etc.)

Chuck spend a large chunk of his life doing research for Blood & Guts, it's good stuff and well worth the investment.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 17, 2005)

I'll add my endorsement of the product; I think it's fantastic. Very happy to be in this game with one of my favorite designers (no, not you, Shaman  ).

$5, how can you go wrong?


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 17, 2005)

Yes, BnG2 is a good book. Definitely would recommend it.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 17, 2005)

Just a personal quirk.  I buy nothing on the internet.  If I can not hold it in my hands first, than I do not buy it.  It cuts down on the potential for ID theft as well.

I can not get to a bookstore to find this blood and guts either.
=================================================

Back to the game at hand.  It sounds like I need to run with what I have posted so far.  Unless I get some concrete suggestions.


----------



## Masada (Aug 17, 2005)

You won't find it in a bookstore.  It's a PDF release.  If anyone was going to be completely sane with your personal info it's Chuck and Chris (the owners of RPGObjects).  Your choice, of course.

You're putting us in the position of violating copyright to send you a copy (which i won't) or having RPGO give away a product they worked hard to produce.  Neither are great choices.

However, it's Chuck's call.  I don't see any reason why you can't just play with the basic SRD and wing it for some of the details.


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 18, 2005)

*Ranger Rick*, just stick with what's in the SRD and your character will be fine.

I'm looking forward to getting started!


----------



## uraniumdragon (Aug 18, 2005)

I forgot my second language. I added Arabic. Thought about Hebrew. Any suggestions?


----------



## uraniumdragon (Aug 18, 2005)

Vigilance, you will let us know herein when you post over in Story Hour, right?


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 18, 2005)

Not that it makes any difference now, but I just realized how much fun it would be to play an embedded journalist in this adventure...


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## kingpaul (Aug 18, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> Not that it makes any difference now, but I just realized how much fun it would be to play an embedded journalist in this adventure...



That would be an interestig character. They'd almost have to have been someone who's had some military training, then got out and joined a newspaper/tv station.


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## Vigilance (Aug 18, 2005)

Rick is ok without BNG II. Just made the first post.

Chuck


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 18, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Rick is ok without BNG II. Just made the first post.
> 
> Chuck



Just remember, after this, I won't be around until Sunday afternoon. I'll be on vacation with my parents, wife and daughters.


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 18, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Rick is ok without BNG II. Just made the first post.
> 
> Chuck



Alright, color me blind...where is the fist post?


----------



## Masada (Aug 18, 2005)

I found the thread here.

Who's the ranking mook in this posse?

I vote the dude with the highest Charisma or Wis or Int.  I think that's probably Shaman (Kingpaul and Shaman are tied, but if he's gone for a week...)


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 18, 2005)

Ranks are as follows (knew I forgot something):

Masada/"Chicken Legs" Jackson: Sgt (E-5)
Bobitron/"Bear": Cpl (E-4+)
Kingpaul/Augustus Kurtz: Cpl (E-4+)
Ranger Rick/Pedraic: Cpl (E-4+)
Shaman/"Doc" Meadows: Spc (E-4)
Uranium Dragon/OD Green: Spc (E-4)


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 18, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> Not that it makes any difference now, but I just realized how much fun it would be to play an embedded journalist in this adventure...




As a warning... the following link contains politics/blood/etc.

Tell me about it! I've been reading Michael Yon's blog, and the first thing that popped in my head as a character was an independent reporter.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 18, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Ranks are as follows (knew I forgot something):
> 
> Masada/"Chicken Legs" Jackson: Sgt (E-5)
> Bobitron/"Bear": Cpl (E-4+)
> ...




I would think the driver should be the lowest rank and recommend a PFC.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 18, 2005)

Masada said:
			
		

> You won't find it in a bookstore.  .....You're putting us in the position of violating copyright to send you a copy (which i won't) or having RPGO give away a product they worked hard to produce.  Neither are great choices.
> 
> However, it's Chuck's call.  I don't see any reason why you can't just play with the basic SRD and wing it for some of the details.





Doesn't seem logical not to have it as a book, but no matter.

How can a computer file be copyrighted?  Don't you mean classified as a proprietary document?  But having it classified as proprietary does not make any sense either.

I do not want you to violate any proprietary ethic you have though.  Thanks.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 18, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Rick is ok without BNG II. Just made the first post.
> 
> Chuck




Questions before I start.

Reading about the dogfights and bombs, I would like to know are we at war with Iran?  Next, running an electronic LP we would need generators to supply power not the batteries of the M2.  Therefore the Bradley would not idle for ever.

Military generators are also loud, loud enough to help drown out the noise of jets overhead.  

As a driver I would like to know if I filled the fuel tank last night.  This way I could talk about vehicle status.


----------



## Masada (Aug 18, 2005)

Oh sure... punish me with rank! *lol*

For clarification, it appears we were out on mission doing maintenance (the tank moving between monitoring stations) and the air battle took place.  We operate pre-dawn because A) it's cooler and B) it's slightly more co-vert (right?).  So at a guess 0300 hours would be about 2-4 hours before we'd be done for the day.

Rick, if this is true, then we probably aren't crashing out just yet (might edit???)

Vig, how far from home base are we?  Do we trundle out and back in the same night? or do we stay out for a few days at a time?  Are we in radio range?


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 18, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Reading about the dogfights and bombs, I would like to know are we at war with Iran?



I'm guessing that this will be made clear in future posts. I think our characters are supposed to be wondering about that right now...  

The _B&G2_ .pdf is a copyrighted work - distributing copies for free violates copyright law and invokes much bad karma.

And dude, you're complaining about a rank bump?!?


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 18, 2005)

I'm going to re-work my history over the weekend to give Scott less experience. He has far too long of a career in my post than any Corporal would. 

Maybe he was a Sgt who wasted busted down by a cranky officer?


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 18, 2005)

Masada said:
			
		

> Oh sure... punish me with rank! *lol*
> 
> For clarification, it appears we were out on mission doing maintenance (the tank moving between monitoring stations) and the air battle took place.  We operate pre-dawn because A) it's cooler and B) it's slightly more co-vert (right?).  So at a guess 0300 hours would be about 2-4 hours before we'd be done for the day.
> 
> ...





Doing maintenance at night is less covert because you need to see what you are doing.  While depth perception is being increased with each generation of NVGs, it has not been eradicated.  As of two years ago, the people who work at a NVG testing lab has no gear that allows increased depth perception and clarity of minute detail in the pipeline.  What they have now, may be out in general use by 2010.  Currently they are testing is for a less weighty model and longer battery life.  

Therefore we would need white light to see.   That is best done during the day.  As for the coolness factor, many of these electronics still generate heat, therefore they are probably in HVAC environments.

Lastly, vehicle speed is reduced at night so travel time is greatly increased.  It would seem logical that we main tain a normal peacetime schedule of work during the day and sleep at night.

But I will change it if my assumptions are wrong.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 18, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> I'm going to re-work my history over the weekend to give Scott less experience. He has far too long of a career in my post than any Corporal would.
> 
> Maybe he was a Sgt who wasted busted down by a cranky officer?




A leg corporal can easly have 4-6 years worth of experience.


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 18, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> Maybe he was a Sgt who wasted busted down by a cranky officer?



Flunked out of OCS for fighting on duty, busted from sergeant due to a DUI, an ugly divorce after finding his wife cheating with another NCO, a bitter broken man in a thankless dead-end job...

...is that a bit much?


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 18, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> Flunked out of OCS for fighting on duty, busted from sergeant due to a DUI, an ugly divorce after finding his wife cheating with another NCO, a bitter broken man in a thankless dead-end job...
> 
> ...is that a bit much?





I think it is a bit sugar coated...........Actually flunking out of OCS would probably mean a 100% discharge or starting out as a PFC.


----------



## uraniumdragon (Aug 18, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Ranks are as follows (knew I forgot something):
> 
> Uranium Dragon/OD Green: Spc (E-4)




Darn. 6 ranks in Profession and all's I got was E-4.

Oh well. Let's game!


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 19, 2005)

I would like to hear from Vigilance before I post more.

FYI I will be offline from dinner time till Monday.  Unless I can get a moment on Saturday night.


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 19, 2005)

*Vigilance*, a couple of questions -
 Do you have a map you could upload showing our position? 
 Do we have any intelligence on Iranian and Iraqi positions or insurgent activity relative to our location?
 Are we at a listening post, or traveling between listening posts? If we're between posts, how far are we from the next LP?
 Were we sleeping or active at the time the dogfight began?
Thanks!


----------



## uraniumdragon (Aug 19, 2005)

How about some ground rules on dice rolls? Who makes the rolls - player or GM? Does this site have dice roll capability?

Personally, I'd rather ask the GM to make the rolls. He has our sheets and should be honest enough in rolling.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 19, 2005)

I prefer DM rolling as well. If we can post the relevant checks in each post, it will be a big help.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 21, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Questions before I start.
> 
> Reading about the dogfights and bombs, I would like to know are we at war with Iran?  Next, running an electronic LP we would need generators to supply power not the batteries of the M2.  Therefore the Bradley would not idle for ever.
> 
> ...




I didnt realize there were people waiting to post. You can ask these questions in the actual game thread, Ive sort of been looking for them there and Id rather not look in two places.

So, if anyone has a question about my game event posts, ask them in the game thread, anything between characters, Id rather keep it here.

To answer the questions:

1. No one is at war with Iran on paper as of Wednesday morning.

2. I have no idea what the questions about generators are for enlighten me.

3. RE noise: you heard them, Bradley engines and generators notwithstanding. 

This game isn't going to be hyper-realistic to the point of me determining how loud engine noises are as compared to overhead jets. 

It was more dramatic for the characters to hear and witness a little of the firefight, as opposed to seeing it the next morning on CNN and going "wow we were right there!"

Having you see and hear it also gives you the option to be involved, if you wish.

4. RE: Fueling- you refueled before you left base. Assume you have enough fuel for another couple of days.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 21, 2005)

uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> Darn. 6 ranks in Profession and all's I got was E-4.
> 
> Oh well. Let's game!




As I understand it, those who are not combat arms (which was you and Shaman) are Specialists, unless they become Warrant Officers.

So the rank of those two characters went to Specialist and stopped.

If I'm mistaken in that, someone show me something. I remember what the actual ranks I rolled were.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 21, 2005)

The Shaman said:
			
		

> *Vigilance*, a couple of questions -
> Do you have a map you could upload showing our position?
> Do we have any intelligence on Iranian and Iraqi positions or insurgent activity relative to our location?
> Are we at a listening post, or traveling between listening posts? If we're between posts, how far are we from the next LP?
> ...




Other than the map I linked to earlier, what specifically do you need to know? In terms of "game stuff" you're near the Iranian border (less than an hour).

Iraqi insurgency has been ongoing and sporadic. Not the constant insurgency we see today, but still not all that great.

You were at a listening post in need of repair when the attack started, the repair was going to begin as soon as you had enough light.

The group was active, basically waiting for sunrise.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 21, 2005)

Masada said:
			
		

> Oh sure... punish me with rank! *lol*
> 
> For clarification, it appears we were out on mission doing maintenance (the tank moving between monitoring stations) and the air battle took place.  We operate pre-dawn because A) it's cooler and B) it's slightly more co-vert (right?).  So at a guess 0300 hours would be about 2-4 hours before we'd be done for the day.
> 
> ...




Your normal day on this detail is to leave at night, move to several posts throughout the day as needed, then head back after dark. 

You were just beginning your day, having hurried to your first post on the electronic frontier, you had proceeded to begin waiting for sunrise.

Does anyone have any questions about impending war and downed Israeli pilots? Or are we just going to discuss fuel situations and fixing the electronic frontiers?


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 21, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Other than the map I linked to earlier....



Linked map? Can someone help me out here?


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 21, 2005)

http://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/iz.html


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 21, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Does anyone have any questions about impending war and downed Israeli pilots? Or are we just going to discuss fuel situations and fixing the electronic frontiers?




Heck yeah, I do!  

Has there been suspicions about Israel making a move towards making a strike on Iran? Has Iran been acting in a threatening manner towards Israel or Iraq (beyond the loose border issue you mentioned earlier)?

I assume US-Israeli relations are similar to how they are today. Since the American jets didn't intercept the Israelis with force, can we assume that the US would perhaps be a passive ally to the Israeli strike?

Can we get command on the radio?


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 21, 2005)

Israel has threatened (in the past, the present, the the future of our game) that they would bomb any Iranian nuclear reactor before it reached a state of readiness and/or completion that would allow the enrichment of weapons-grade uranium.

In fact Iranian jets are running test bombing runs in the Negev desert on mock Iranian nuclear reactors today.

If you recall from the campaign set-up, there was a "grand compromise" reached in which the constitution of Iraq would be based on Islamic law and in return Iran would permanently shelve its planned nuclear reactor.

On getting command on the horn, check the game forum in a few.


----------



## uraniumdragon (Aug 21, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> As I understand it, those who are not combat arms (which was you and Shaman) are Specialists, unless they become Warrant Officers.
> 
> So the rank of those two characters went to Specialist and stopped.
> 
> If I'm mistaken in that, someone show me something. I remember what the actual ranks I rolled were.




No problem. Just wasn't sure how profession plays into military rank. You designed the system, so you are much more familiar with it than I am. I should have asked before putting too many ranks into Profession. 

Game on!


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 22, 2005)

uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> No problem. Just wasn't sure how profession plays into military rank. You designed the system, so you are much more familiar with it than I am. I should have asked before putting too many ranks into Profession.
> 
> Game on!




Just curious, what profession are you?  The military has a lot of different ones.


----------



## Masada (Aug 22, 2005)

*M-2 Bradley stats (from BnG 1st ed)*

Posted for convenience...

M-2/A3 Bradley Armored Fighting Vehicle
A fast armored personnel carrier, the M-2/A3 provides cover, transportation, and suppression fire for small units of ground troops. Capable of carrying six soldiers (or 1,500 lbs of other cargo), the M-2 has three main weapon systems: a 25 mm cannon, with 500 rounds of ammunition, 2 TOW missiles (for taking out enemy armor), a heavy machinegun with 3,000 rds., and a grenade launcher with 4 smoke grenades (for escape and defensive purposes if the vehicle is outmatched- may also be used to screen ground forces). The engine of the Bradley may also be set to emit heavy smoke at will to deter pursuit.
The crew of the M-2/A3 sees through periscopes, which are fitted with night vision equipment, granting darkvision to a range of 200 feet, and the vehicle is equipped with a sophisticated communications system granting a +4 on all Communication Operations skill checks.
All M-2/A3s are amphibious, capable of reaching speeds of 25(2) in water. The M-2/A3 provides full cover for crew and passengers.
The Bradley is 4 squares long, and 3 squares wide.

M-2A3 Bradley
Crew: 3
Pass: 6
Cargo: 0/1500
Init: -4
Manuveur: -4
Speed: 80 (8)
Defense: 6
Harndess: 15
Hit Points: 60
Size: G
Purchase DC: 47
Restriction: Mil.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 22, 2005)

uraniumdragon said:
			
		

> No problem. Just wasn't sure how profession plays into military rank. You designed the system, so you are much more familiar with it than I am. I should have asked before putting too many ranks into Profession.
> 
> Game on!




I have no problem letting you respend those skill points elsewhere, or you could count it as one of the two skills you need 10 ranks in to begin making promotion checks to become a WO-1.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 22, 2005)

Masada said:
			
		

> Posted for convenience...
> 
> M-2/A3 Bradley Armored Fighting Vehicle
> A fast armored personnel carrier, the M-2/A3 provides cover, transportation, and suppression fire for small units of ground troops. Capable of carrying six soldiers (or 1,500 lbs of other cargo), the M-2 has three main weapon systems: a 25 mm cannon, with 500 rounds of ammunition, 2 TOW missiles (for taking out enemy armor), a heavy machinegun with 3,000 rds., and a grenade launcher with 4 smoke grenades (for escape and defensive purposes if the vehicle is outmatched- may also be used to screen ground forces). The engine of the Bradley may also be set to emit heavy smoke at will to deter pursuit.
> ...




Another note about the Bradley, you guys currently have 750 rounds for the Bradley's machine gun and 4 smoke grenades.

You aren't rigged for heavy combat, so you are not carrying a load of TOW missles.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 22, 2005)

I assume tweaking or removing the govnenor is out?


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 22, 2005)

The what?


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 22, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> The what?




I assume he means the speed governor for the Bradley. It can be modified/removed to increase the vehicle's speed.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 22, 2005)

Masada said:
			
		

> "If it helps, lay down some suppression fire with the machine gun..."





Machine gun? Lol. That thing fires the monsters near this guy's boot.


----------



## The Shaman (Aug 22, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> OOC: the smoke rounds in the front of the vehicle are not a good choice.



*Ranger Rick*, two things:
1. The suggestion was to pop smoke when we reached a point when we could provide an effective screen - I didn't go into greater detail in my post since I believed that would be readily apparent. I won't make that assumption in the future.
2. We are playing a game, one in which smoke provides a concealment bonus and a miss chance. With all due respect to your real-life experience, I think it's important that we keep sight of that fact.


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 22, 2005)

Right, you guys have a 25mm chain gun as well as a M-240 machine gun. 

That'll learn me to make armament statements without consulting my books.

Basically anything short of a tank would be dumb to fight a Bradley, but without TOWs if you run into an aircraft or helicopter you're on the screwed side.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 22, 2005)

Hold it now... Wait a minute...



> As you approach the position of the pilot it becomes very clear to you that the pilot is Israeli and that the group of Iranians is a lynch mob.
> 
> As you approach the group bullets begin to ping off the Bradley's armor.
> 
> A rough headcount through the Bradley's periscope puts the size of the crowd in the hundreds.




and yet...



> You're about 30 minutes away. The mob is closer, but you're moving faster. Its iffy who's going to reach the pilot first.




We are a half hour away, maybe 10-15 miles, and yet we can tell it is an Israeli jet, are being hit by small arms fire, and can get a rough count on the number of people in the mob?


----------



## Vigilance (Aug 23, 2005)

Yeah yeah

It was a cut scene before the commercial break


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 23, 2005)

Hahaha, nice.


----------



## uraniumdragon (Aug 23, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Just curious, what profession are you?  The military has a lot of different ones.




Okay, I was Navy Nuke six years '75-81. Dunno nuthin about the ground-pounder side. BNG2 is kinda grey in this area. I had picked Combat Engineer MOS. Does that help point a direction?


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 24, 2005)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> Augustus' grandfather served the marines in the Pacific theater of WWII and his father in Viet Nam.



Just out of curiosity, is that realistic? For ages that is. I know that my grandfathers fought in WWII, and my dad would've fought in Viet Nam had he not had a college defferment. However, the game is 5 years from now, and Augustus is 7 years younger than I am now.

Would it make a bit more sense for great-grandfather in WWII, grandfather in Viet Nam, father in the 1st Gulf War?


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 24, 2005)

Get an excel spread sheet and put in b-days and than ages.

The 1st gulf war was 19 years ago from the story.

Vietnam was 16-27 years before the Gulf war.

Technically, yes, but realisticaly no.  Also, by after 4 generations, you probably would have been encouraged to become an Officer. 

Keep WWII & Vietnam link but drop the gulf war one.


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 24, 2005)

Well, as the history originally stands, grandpa was in WWII and dad in Viet Nam. I was just thinking about ages and didn't know if another generation should've been inserted in there or not.


----------



## ragboy (Aug 24, 2005)

First off, I'm really enjoying the pbp game as a lurker, so I don't want to come off as a total ass, but I have issue with this statement (if I'm understanding what Ranger Rick is saying here): 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> OOC: think of this thing as a light tank. It has a small turret containing the big gun (25mm) and a 7.62 mm coaxially mounted with it. You could fire it from inside, but you would have a better view of the whole terrain and people involved. Also, one may think you are yellow if you hide in the turret. I assume you have a flak jacket.




You shoot _from_ the inside. It's the only way to shoot the main gun and coax, and have any chance of hitting (or properly targeting) your intended target. 

Also, driving into a potentially hot situation with the driver's hatch open is the quick way out of country with a shiny new flag. Nobody calls you 'yella' for staying inside the tank. That's what it's there for. 

Again, forgive me if I misunderstood what you said, and I swear I'm not being an ass, but military inaccuracy just bugs the crap out of me. 

I'd recommend this site: http://www.army-technology.com/projects/bradley/

And particularly this part, for more detailed info on the Bradley fire control system: 

*FIRE CONTROL AND OBSERVATION*

The gunner is equipped with a Raytheon Integrated Sight Unit (ISU) which includes a day/thermal sight of magnification x4 and x12. An optical relay provides the image of the gunner's sight to the commander. The gunner also has periscopes for forward and side observation. A daytime sight system for the gunner or commander is provided as backup to the primary sight.

The driver is equipped with three forward periscopes plus one periscope to the left. The central periscope can be replaced with the Northrop Grumman (formerly Litton) AN/VVS-2 Driver's Night Viewer with a 25mm second generation image intensifier. M2 Bradleys will be equipped with the DRS Technologies Driver's Vision Enhancer (DVE) from 2005.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 24, 2005)

Thanks, ragboy.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 24, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> First off, I'm really enjoying the pbp game as a lurker, so I don't want to come off as a total ass, but I have issue with this statement (if I'm understanding what Ranger Rick is saying here):
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Thanks ragboy, but let me tell you where I am coming from.  1st, I am thinking old school so I might be biased as I have never gotten close to a bradley, but I have to a M1.

Sensors are great for battlefield acquistion, but not for being able to see everywhere in a SAR mission.  Second, I do believe that the guns can be fired from a person standing up.  It is a crew of 3, gunner, driver and vehicle commander  In this case I am not sure who the gunner might be.  Sgt is the one standing up.  Third, collateral damage would be a big consideration.  One should have the vehicle commander ensuring that colleteral damage is zero.  It is called covering your ass.  If any civilians took a bullet, the IG/media/centcom would be on our rear very hard.  If the gunner is looking through the sensors, and yet the vehicle commander is up top, the vision angle card is null and void.

Ragboy, do you have actual experience with the M2?  If so I would love to pick your brain.

PS one or two of those photos show the driver's hatch open.


----------



## ragboy (Aug 24, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Thanks ragboy, but let me tell you where I am coming from. 1st, I am thinking old school so I might be biased as I have never gotten close to a bradley, but I have to a M1.




If you were Infantry, then I understand the frame of reference ('yella' for buttoning up, etc). I always respected the crunchies. I'm going to use the term 'tank' in the following, but I mean either the M1A1 (which I have the most hands-on experience with) and the Bradley. They both have very similar fire control systems, and with the exception of the loader on the tank and infantry on the Brad, similar crews/tactics. 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Sensors are great for battlefield acquistion, but not for being able to see everywhere in a SAR mission.




Okay, so absolutely not, and I can tell you precisely why. 

When you are training on the tank, you learn to shoot with fire control from the gunner's station, from the TC station, and completely manually (ever cranked an M1A1 turret 360 degrees? You don't want to). With fire control (from gunner or TC station), you have to be 70-80% accurate or you can't even sit in the seat. Manual from the TC station is not possible with any degree of accuracy. Manual from the gunner's station, you have to be 45-50% accurate. Like 50% is doing VERY well. And that's with the tank completely still. In my four years, I knew one gunner (mine) that could consistently hit over 50% using the manual system. And I stress, the vehicle cannot be moving at all. Here are the main reasons why you want to use your fire control system for target acquisition and putting steel on steel: 

* Laser Range Finder - Accurate ranges out to about 4000 meters IIRC
* Turret Stabilization - Shoot on the move at a moving target with uncanny accuracy (I watched tanks/Brads consistently score catastrophic kills at 3000 meters, at night with both target vehicle and shooting tank on the move [2500 meters for the Brad])
* Thermal Sights - Hot spot = Kill. This sight has great resolution, even during the day and through any 'weather' (German fog, Saudi/Iraqi dust/oil fires, etc. 
* Support Systems - Everything from wind to temperature adjustments, calcs on ammo type, etc. 
* TC 'independent' sight - The TC can lay the gunner on a target, disengage his sight, lay on another target and once Target 1 is a smoking wreck, punch a button and Wala! Gunner's on Target 2. 
* New stuff I'm not aware of... I've been out for over 10 years now... Heck...almost 15... ug. All kinds of namby-pamby video screens and cup holders (now who sounds old school?). 

Here's how the chain of responsibility goes: 
TC: Lay on the target for the gunner (meaning get the target in the gunner's sights), command ammo, drive speed, direction, etc. Spot the next target, 
Gunner: Kill what he's told to when he's told to. 
Driver: Drive 
Loader: Load (in the M1A1) -- both driver and loader have some target acquisition duties, but these are minimal and once the shooting starts, they're doing their jobs exclusively.)

At the ranges you're talking about for a typical engagement (especially out in the middle of the desert), 3000 meter spotting and shot is not going to be possible, even with a manual sight (IIRC the M1A1 is sighted manually to 1000-1500 meters...). These are direct-fire, big-bore mobile sniper rifles (for lack of a better analogy). 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Second, I do believe that the guns can be fired from a person standing up. It is a crew of 3, gunner, driver and vehicle commander In this case I am not sure who the gunner might be. Sgt is the one standing up.




The main gun/coax can be fired from whereever the gunner or TC happen to be, as long as they can reach the cadillacs and pull the trigger. But, again, I'd put forth the 'why,' as above. You can do all the eye-balling and Kentucky windage you want, as long as you're willing to answer to your commander when you can't consisently hit a moving vehicle at 2000 - 3000 meters and have to stop everytime you fire the main gun or coax. And you can keep poking your head out of the hatches with binoculars as long as you don't mind getting hit in the head with everything from hot lead to chunks of rock. I knew a couple of TC's that preferred the hatch open, until we started taking artillery fire...then everyone was 'yella'  I knew one driver that drove with his hatch open all the way through the war, but that was because he was extremely claustrophobic.

Another reason for having the hatches closed in a combat situation is that the NBC overpressurization system doesn't work unless the hatches are sealed (not sure if the Bradley has this...think it does). You want that working when they drop nerve agent on you...Unless you like dancing the herky-jerky for a few seconds, then filling your drawers and dying really really ugly. 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Third, collateral damage would be a big consideration. One should have the vehicle commander ensuring that colleteral damage is zero. It is called covering your ass. If any civilians took a bullet, the IG/media/centcom would be on our rear very hard. If the gunner is looking through the sensors, and yet the vehicle commander is up top, the vision angle card is null and void.




I'm not absolutely certain on the hatch position options on the Brad commander hatch (I'm googlefu lazy today), but on the M1A1 tank commander's hatch, you had Open (hatch 90 degrees to the turret top), Closed (totally sealed), and (can't remember the damn term -- but...)'half-open', where the hatch was parallel with the turret top, but lifted out of the commander's hole. Basically all that did was give the TC enough room to view through his periscopes (due to the bulky CVC helmet) and not get his fat head blown off (or a mortar dropped on him and everyone in the tank). I know the driver, gunner, TC and 'passengers' on a Bradley have copious periscopes to look through, so if close-in friendlies or civilians are an issue, you can see just fine through them. If these soft targets are more than a couple hundred yards away, however, you're better off with the TC's sight. 

And the less politically correct response to your collateral damage question (especially if the civilians are close in or mixed up with your targets) is that you're basically using a sledgehammer to open walnuts, and trying not to hit the pecans on the same table. Both of these weapons (120mm and 25mm) fire a depleted uranium needle, or a big basket of greek fire, accurately to 2500 - 3000 meters. When that needle hits up to and including several inches of steel, it goes right through. When the basket hits the steel, it punches through and explodes. I watched an M1A1 kill two T-55's with one shot. (Both 'turrets flying through the air Hollywood explosion' catastrophic kills). The Bradley is comparable on lightly armored vehicles. If there are civilians mixed up in that area, collateral damage ain't preventable, unless you just don't fire. And you don't perform 'suppressing fire' with a tank/light tank main gun unless you're expecting the kill something. In fact, on the coax engagement during gunnery, if you accidently fire the main gun at the troop targets, you pass the engagement, as the troops were 'suppressed.' 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Ragboy, do you have actual experience with the M2? If so I would love to pick your brain.




I was in for four years loading/driving/shooting M1A1's, but I was in different Cav units in Germany and Saudi/Iraq. We worked very closely with the Scouts in their Bradleys. As far as performance, gunnery, etc. I know quite a lot about the Brad, but I have very little hands-on experience. I've done and/or seen the following:

* Shot the main gun and coax (twice)
* Drove it from point A to point B in a motor pool
* Helped pull the pack (engine)
* Sat in the back and played poker until my eyes bled.
* Changed the track (once -- much easier than an M1A1...)
* Watched one melt to the tracks when it was hit by a Hellfire missile fired by the unit's brigade commander...not a shining moment. 
* Watched many many gunneries and field problems (it keeps up nicely with the M1A1)
* Watched it in actual combat.

On the M1A1, I've done everything you can do with it, including running over a car (demonstration for the Germans), blowing off the first two roadwheels on a landmine, driving it where it was vowed 'not possible for a tank that heavy', pulling every single nut, bolt, cable and hose (and putting them back on...the correct way!) etc... But I digress... 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> PS one or two of those photos show the driver's hatch open.




Absolutely. When you're not in combat, you drive hatch open, tank commander and loader hanging out the top of the turret waving at beautiful women, etc. It's the best way to see/drive/maneuver/look at beautiful women. Those pictures were most likely taken in that situation. I'm not saying NO ONE drives into battle with their hatch open; I'm just saying that NO SANE PERSON does.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 24, 2005)

Ragboy,

Thank you.  I had driven a 113 and that was something you wanted to stick your head out of.  The TI sights where not very helpful.

I was in 20 years ago and I went around in LPCs.  My avatar was my unit patch.  I had talked with some tankers in the early 80's who where in Germany and they all said that with the M1, they tinkered with the engines and would travel 90-100 MPH (not kph) on the german autobahn.  Where you able to do the same thing?


----------



## ragboy (Aug 24, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> Thank you. I had driven a 113 and that was something you wanted to stick your head out of. The TI sights where not very helpful.




Yeah. I wouldn't be caught sober in one of those things. Aluminum can deathtrap, that thing is. 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> I was in 20 years ago and I went around in LPCs. My avatar was my unit patch. I had talked with some tankers in the early 80's who where in Germany and they all said that with the M1, they tinkered with the engines and would travel 90-100 MPH (not kph) on the german autobahn. Where you able to do the same thing.




That was an urban legend that every tanker that came before me swore that he'd done/seen done. I never saw it. I know it's possible, but it's extremely bad for the tank (and the autobahn). At about 60-70 mph, the track will come completely apart (this I know from at least an equal amount of stress from climbing an incline that was too steep breaking the track completely in half on my wingman's tank in German maneuvers). But conceivably, I know the engine/transmission has no such upper limit as far as torque goes (for instance, you can tow another M1A1). 

And even driving 45 mph (top official speed), you're tearing up secondary roads. Typical roadmarch speed is about 25-30 mph. By the end of my tour (Spring '90), we rarely left the base unless it was with tanks loaded on HET's (semitruck with a lowboy trailer) due to the fall of East Germany (justification) and the havoc we wreaked when we road marched.

All: Sorry...didn't mean to hijack your OOC thread. Feel free to e-mail me if you have other questions....


----------



## kingpaul (Aug 24, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> All: Sorry...didn't mean to hijack your OOC thread. Feel free to e-mail me if you have other questions....



Its not bothered me. Go ahead and keep talking.


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 24, 2005)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> Its not bothered me. Go ahead and keep talking.




Nor me. Glad to hear some insight.


----------



## Ranger Rick (Aug 24, 2005)

Ditto on the hi jack.

As for an urban legend, I must have met some of the creators, because these tanks all had 105 guns, it was when the M1 was introduced.

Well from now on I will have the hatch closed.  Thanks for the info.  Please tell us about further inaccuracy's.


----------



## ragboy (Aug 31, 2005)

Okay. You've convinced me... Vigilance: What do I need to run the Blood and Guts 2 system? I see on rpgnow, quite a few PDF's, including the 1st edition bundle. Do I need all the 1st edition stuff to run B&G2 (I've got the original B&G book, but nothing else in the 1st ed.)?

It appears to be: 

Modern Military Manual
Any sub-campaign stuff I'm interested in (i.e. War on Terror, Special Ops, etc).


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 31, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> Okay. You've convinced me... Vigilance: What do I need to run the Blood and Guts 2 system? I see on rpgnow, quite a few PDF's, including the 1st edition bundle. Do I need all the 1st edition stuff to run B&G2 (I've got the original B&G book, but nothing else in the 1st ed.)?
> 
> It appears to be:
> 
> ...




All you need is the Military Training Manual for what you have seen in this game so far. Special Operations Command adds in SOCOM, obviously. War on Terror is almost like a Monster Manual; it gives you special ways to build terrorist groups and NPC's. The Combat Procedures Manual is a rules expansion, with new options for armor, vehicle combat, etc. Battlefield Unit Combat System is a mass combat system; I just picked it up today and haven't had a chance to read it.

Get Military Training Manual first. From there add what you like. I think all the pdf's are well worth it; nothing is too expensive and they all have usable material.

edit: Oh, and nothing from 1st edition is needed. Buy only 2nd edition stuff. While the 1st edition bundle is a great deal, I think the new edition is much improved.


----------



## ragboy (Aug 31, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> edit: Oh, and nothing from 1st edition is needed. Buy only 2nd edition stuff. While the 1st edition bundle is a great deal, I think the new edition is much improved.




Cool. That's what I thought. I just got the somewhat aged video game "Flashpoint" and now I have a hankering for a modern military rpg...


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 31, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> Cool. That's what I thought. I just got the somewhat aged video game "Flashpoint" and now I have a hankering for a modern military rpg...





I love that game! I uninstalled it a while back and was hankerin' for a game a few days back, but can't find my discs.


----------



## ragboy (Aug 31, 2005)

Bobitron said:
			
		

> I love that game! I uninstalled it a while back and was hankerin' for a game a few days back, but can't find my discs.




Picked up the 'Gold Edition' at Half-Priced Books for $6... woot!


----------



## ragboy (Aug 31, 2005)

Crud. RpgNow only takes Paypal with a credit card...which I don't have..  Don't suppose RPGObjects can take direct Paypal payments??


----------



## Bobitron (Aug 31, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> Crud. RpgNow only takes Paypal with a credit card...which I don't have..  Don't suppose RPGObjects can take direct Paypal payments??




I don't think so.


----------



## kingpaul (Sep 1, 2005)

Sorry for the absence guys. Had vacation and then a death in the family. I'm back now.


----------



## Vigilance (Sep 2, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> Okay. You've convinced me... Vigilance: What do I need to run the Blood and Guts 2 system? I see on rpgnow, quite a few PDF's, including the 1st edition bundle. Do I need all the 1st edition stuff to run B&G2 (I've got the original B&G book, but nothing else in the 1st ed.)?
> 
> It appears to be:
> 
> ...




I obviously need to poke my head in here more often. I've been hip deep in Jack the Ripper research for the past couple days and got preoccupied (no not for you guys lol- you won't be meeting Jack in the Iraqi desert- its a little book for Blood and Relics).

You are correct ragboy, all you need to use BNG II is the Military Training Manual and the core rules. The rest is gravy. 

To use War on Terror or SOCOM you need the MTM, but the Combat Procedures Manual and BUCS are standalone products that require nothing but the core rules. 

So its really a question of what you want. The MTM gives you some more advanced classes and a ton of feats for a military-focused game. War on Terror and SOCOM are sort of flip sides of the same coin, each using similar terminology to represent terrorist groups and special operations units respectively. 

BUCS is a mass combat system able to handle ground combat between hundreds of combatants with ease, while Combat Procedures is just optional rules for attack and defense, with a lot of ways to make combat more realistic and lethal.

Hope this helps and thanks for the interest 

Chuck


----------



## Ranger Rick (Sep 2, 2005)

If you check this place out, I am offline for the 3 day holiday weekend.


----------



## ragboy (Sep 12, 2005)

Vigilance said:
			
		

> Hope this helps and thanks for the interest




I just got them all... hell it's less than $20 for the lot... Lots of great stuff in here, by the way. I'm thinking of running a PbP game with it, either here or rpol.net. 

So, have you used these rules to run any historical military adventures/campaigns? All the WWII rules out there are polluted with arcane stuff, and I'd like to run some B&G-style WWII adventures. I didn't see anything that stood out as anachronistic, other than the obvious stuff (equipment, some of the MOS's and units).. All the rules/feats seem to be fairly applicable... 

Anyway. If you have any tips on that, lemme know. Enjoying it so far.


----------



## Bobitron (Sep 12, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> I just got them all... hell it's less than $20 for the lot... Lots of great stuff in here, by the way. I'm thinking of running a PbP game with it, either here or rpol.net.




Do it! I'm in. I'd love to play in one of your games. 



			
				ragboy said:
			
		

> So, have you used these rules to run any historical military adventures/campaigns? All the WWII rules out there are polluted with arcane stuff, and I'd like to run some B&G-style WWII adventures.




I am in the midst of starting a WWII pbp using d20 Modern, elements of Hell on Earth (1939-1945), and a splash of Grim Tales. No FX here, thank you very much.   You can check it out here. I can make room for one more, if you like. A couple of the players who expressed interest haven't shown up in the game thread.

I didn't look at adding B&G in. It seems like it could work well, but might be a good amount of work.


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## ragboy (Sep 19, 2005)

*Night vision and the modern military...*

All the American crew-level night vision equipment is essentially "low-light vision" equipment (I was going to use the term active or passive, but I couldn't remember which is which). What this means is that you don't need additional lighting to operate, as long as there's some ambient light available (star light will do nicely -- background light from the city will make your view look like a bright sunny day). The Bradley, however, does have headlights, and the headlights can be fitted with IR lenses to mask the light to everything but another IR sight. This is used for driving and what you guys are doing now: Providing an additional light source for your night vision equipment. 

All that being said, you typically don't need an additional light source unless you're in a completely dark environment (cloud cover, heavy smoke or dust, etc). The ambient lighting of the city and stars is more than enough. In fact, with too much light, your night vision equipment will "wash out." 

Anyway... just a note. Enjoying the first combat encounter!


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## Ranger Rick (Sep 20, 2005)

ragboy said:
			
		

> All the American crew-level night vision equipment is essentially "low-light vision" equipment (I was going to use the term active or passive, but I couldn't remember which is which). What this means is that you don't need additional lighting to operate, as long as there's some ambient light available (star light will do nicely -- background light from the city will make your view look like a bright sunny day). The Bradley, however, does have headlights, and the headlights can be fitted with IR lenses to mask the light to everything but another IR sight. This is used for driving and what you guys are doing now: Providing an additional light source for your night vision equipment.
> 
> All that being said, you typically don't need an additional light source unless you're in a completely dark environment (cloud cover, heavy smoke or dust, etc). The ambient lighting of the city and stars is more than enough. In fact, with too much light, your night vision equipment will "wash out."
> 
> Anyway... just a note. Enjoying the first combat encounter!




But this is not white light.  Therefore things will not wash out.  Granted, I am thinking of the NVGs that where in use 25 years ago.   When we had airplanes mounted with IR search lights sweep the ground, it was like it was daylight, there where even shadows.  I know you where a tanker and I am not sure how much you used NVGs on the ground but there was never a problem with wash out.

We are on the outskirts of a city and there should be enough light to see very regularly.  But additional light is helpful particularly in allowing the viewers to see more detail in searching the bodies/prisoners/bombs.


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## ragboy (Sep 20, 2005)

Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> But this is not white light.  Therefore things will not wash out.  Granted, I am thinking of the NVGs that where in use 25 years ago.   When we had airplanes mounted with IR search lights sweep the ground, it was like it was daylight, there where even shadows.  I know you where a tanker and I am not sure how much you used NVGs on the ground but there was never a problem with wash out.




We drove with a piece of equipment that was basically an NVG (inserted into the center periscope on the driver's hole). IR will wash out that sight, but only if it's point directly at you. I should have said "with too much WHITE light, your goggles will wash out." I think the tank (not sure about the Brad) has a thermal sight for the driver these days. Spoiled kids... 

Anyway, you don't typically use your headlights unless you're road marching (no danger) or for more precision work (like what ya'll are doing now). 



			
				Ranger Rick said:
			
		

> We are on the outskirts of a city and there should be enough light to see very regularly.  But additional light is helpful particularly in allowing the viewers to see more detail in searching the bodies/prisoners/bombs.




Yep. That was more of a 'as you were' post responding to the question of whether the Bradley had a searchlight, but apparently I cut that sentence...


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