# Wasn't there a thread on ADD?



## Tuzenbach (Sep 3, 2006)

Was it just my imagination, or was there a thread on Attention Deficit Disorder? I'm thinking there used to be one, but it got lost in the site crash of early May.

Anyway, I've got the "Unquiet Mind" disorder. I'm currently taking a generic form of Ridilin called "Methylin". I've been doing so since February of 2005. It's very strange. When I'm on it, it's as if everything around me slams on the brakes and gets slower. I realize that this is only a perception/relativity thing and that I'm actually speeding up, but it doesn't feel that way.

To the point of the thread.......I HATE the medication! Sure, I get faster. However, I also get very irritated at really insignificant crap. Anger, for no apparent reason, just sort of happens. 

What other medications are out there and how do they adversely affect you? I'd appreciate any and all feedback. I'd very much like to try a different med, but I haven't got a clue as to what's available.

Thanks!


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## takyris (Sep 3, 2006)

I wish I could offer something to help. I sympathize on the anger issues, though. When I went on prednisone to deal with a sinus/allergy problem, I got what my wife described as massive PMS. I would come home, and my wife would say, "Hey, sweetie, how was your day?", and I'd just KNOW that what she actually meant was, "You're fat and lazy and lousy in bed and I can't believe that I'm putting up with you, you pathetic cretin." I am a big-time empathetic person, and it was like my sensors were just as sensitive but tuned in completely the wrong direction.

We had a few really uncomfortable days before we realized that it was the medication and not a major crisis in our marriage causing (her view) me to start acting crazy or (my view) her to start attacking me with thinly veiled verbal abuse.

Good luck finding something that helps you deal with stuff.


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## Mark Chance (Sep 3, 2006)

No advice about the meds, but there is this: Get a second opinion. If you gotten a second opinion, get a third, et cetera. Ritalin is overprescribed and often unnecessary. The problems associated with ADD are largely behavioral, and behavior can often be modified without recourse to drugs that may not doing anything more than masking symptoms.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 3, 2006)

Mark Chance said:
			
		

> No advice about the meds, but there is this: Get a second opinion. If you gotten a second opinion, get a third, et cetera. Ritalin is overprescribed and often unnecessary. The problems associated with ADD are largely behavioral, and behavior can often be modified without recourse to drugs that may not doing anything more than masking symptoms.



 Not really, but I appreciate your advice.

You see, I don't possess very good control over my brain. Without the meds, it's highly possible for me to spend a whole day in bed just starring up at the ceiling. It's not depression, lethary, apathy, boredom, or sleepiness. It's just that my imagination sometimes captivates me for hours on end. In truth, I've never been bored in my life, as my imagination is like an unpredictable movie running 24/7 keeping me constantly amused.

Interestingly, from a strictly "Behavioristic" point of view, they would classify the action described above as merely "lying in bed" and make no record whatsover of all the imagination stuff going on. Why? Because "thinking" doesn't qualify as a behavior, according to these genius people! 

And I'm in the right to criticize them as I've actually held the title of "Behavior Therapist" while working with autistic children. I hold a BA in Psychology & acted as a course-coordinator for my university's class on Behavior Modification. I'll be the first to say that the technique is DEFINATELY NOT appropriate for all situations, though Behaviorists will say otherwise. 

I could tell you horror stories about what sort of cruel, emotional tortures my immediate supervisors would inflict upon these kids in the name of science. And whatever obvious emotional misery the children suffered would nonchalantly be brushed aside with textbook references implying that "feelings aren't behavior, and thus should be ignored". But that is best spared for another thread.....

A second opinion? Well, perhaps just a different Doctor. The guy has ONLY prescribed Ritalin for persons with ADD, and is thus hesitant to change the prescription. I think it's mostly his inexperience with the adverse affects of other drugs. However, I've heard of a few alternative medications and wondered what they were like.

Hey, thanks again for the response. It's greatly appreciated!


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## Merkuri (Sep 3, 2006)

On a slightly related topic, does anyone know any non-medication ways to treat ADD?  While I've never been diagnosed I'm positive that I have it to some degree.  My childhood had "ADD" stamped over it, and if my parents had recognized it and gotten me some type of treatment then maybe I could've had a life, rather than having to spend my entire night from the time I got home to the time I went to bed doing homework (no kidding, I used to do this).  Only the stuff that required reading, mind you.  Math I could do in 10 minutes.  English took me three hours.  My parents thought my younger sister was slacking when she'd be done with all of her homework in an hour or two, even though she got slightly better grades than me, because they thought I was normal and something was "different" about her, rather than the other way around.

It'd always been very hard for me to concentrate when something didn't naturally hold my attention, like a good book.  This isn't as big of a deal now that I'm an adult with a job, which is why I've never mentioned it to a doctor.  But sometimes I wish I could just force myself to concentrate harder, like if I'm in the middle of a meeting and my mind starts to wander.  I'd rather not resort to drugs, and I was just wonderng if there was anyone out there who'd had some sort of non-drug therapy to treat their ADD and what it was like.


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## ssampier (Sep 3, 2006)

Merkurl, you remind me of my polar opposite. I almost never did homework when I was in elementary school. I got "okay" grades, except in math. Junior high and high school was a frustrating, boring existance.

College was much better, though. When I did have to study, somedays I could study for hours without problems. Other days I'd have trouble concentrating and I'd get frustrated really easily. Most of the time I could eventually focus, but it'd take me several hours to "get into the zone" (basically wasting time doing other things).

Lately, I've noticed I've had trouble concentrating at work, my mind always seem to wander off somewhere. I thought about seeing a doctor, but I'm honestly not sure whom I'd talk to.


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## BOZ (Sep 3, 2006)

takyris said:
			
		

> When I went on prednisone to deal with a sinus/allergy problem, I got what my wife described as massive PMS.




heh.  i was taking it for a skin allergy actually for a few weeks, and i got the same reaction.  switching from weepy to insanely mad for no real reason.

unlike you, though, i got a warning from the nurse ahead of time that "it might make you a little cranky".  when i told the doctor, he took me off of it about a week quicker than anticipated.


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## Merkuri (Sep 4, 2006)

ssampier said:
			
		

> Merkurl, you remind me of my polar opposite. I almost never did homework when I was in elementary school. I got "okay" grades, except in math. Junior high and high school was a frustrating, boring existance.




Yeah, I think the reason nobody ever realized there was a problem was that I got excelent grades.  As and Bs all around.  The only grade I ever got lower than a B in high school was a C in Spanish one semester.  I almost cried when I saw the report card.

But the price I paid for those good grades was a lack of any free time except on the weekends.  I was seriously depressed all through high school.  I used to cry while I got dressed in the morning for school.  I never actually contemplated suicide, but I understood why some teens would do it.

College was a lot easier, mainly I think because I was taking classes I was interested in, and the topics held my interest, so it was easier to concentrate on them.  I also had a lot more free time to work on the subjects I wasn't so interested in.

Much happier now, and the lack of concentration only comes into play maybe once a month at work.  I work in tech support.  I don't have meetings all that often, and that's usually when I start zoning.  There have been one or two times when I've zoned out while talking to a customer, though, and I've had to ask them to repeat themselves.  That's embarrassing, but not as bad as one sales guy at work.  He's seriously overworked, and he's told me before that he's fallen asleep while on the phone with the customer.  If he wakes up in the middle of the call and no one is talking, he just says, "Oh?" and the customer starts talking again.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 4, 2006)

The previous conversation of ADD came up in my thread about my wife leaving me. (And was lost in the crash)

One of the (many) reasons she decided to leave is that she couldn't deal with me off the meds, or me on the meds (for different reasons).

I currently use Adderol extended release, which still has a peak efficiency of mid-day, then a "trough" in the late afternoon, but the XR version is not as "high & low" as taking multiple doses in a day.

You may want to look into the Dore program.

Acording to the Dore program, they have noticed that people with ADD have a less developed Cerebellum then the average person. (The Cerebellum is the part of the brain that controls balance, coordination, & motor control). Their research has found that practicing physical exercises which stimulate the Cerebellum will also lead to reduced symptoms of ADD or ADHD.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 4, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Acording to the Dore program, they have noticed that people with ADD have a less developed Cerebellum then the average person. (The Cerebellum is the part of the brain that controls balance, coordination, & motor control)




That's actually very interesting! I've always said that if I had to rank my own ability scores, my Dexterity would be the lowest with about a 4. At various random times throughout my life I've actually lost my balance WHILE WALKING! 

I've not-too-fond memories of elementary school where I was always the very worst kid at catching, running, throwing, etc. I don't think I ever did manage to connect the softball with the bat.....always so fast with so many different spacial variables, it was impossible for me. I never figured out why everybody else hit the thing seemingly with ease.

And when it came time to pick teams? Forget it! I was never actually picked. I was always last and thus, by default, was forced upon the team who ordinarily was supposed to pick last. And they hated it, cuz it meant that they would lose. Oh well......

I guess I should get into a gym or something?

Thanks for the info, Mavrick!




			
				MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> The previous conversation of ADD came up in my thread about my wife leaving me. (And was lost in the crash)




I remember reading parts of that thread and am truly sorry that something so touching was lost forever. FWIW, the emotional out-pouring was very inspirational.


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## Nyaricus (Sep 4, 2006)

This thread is kinda... unnerving, in a way. Many, well most, of the symptons are talking about are things I exhibit, like zoning, zero concentration, mediocre grades in school (except what I like), depression (oh boy, this is a biggie), etc (well, there are many more things, but I can't really think of them all right now)

The thing is, I know I have some sort of a problem, but I don't know how to deal with it at all. I feel kinda lost and unsure of that part of me, and generally try to ignore it. But it bothers me constantly, and I feel often like time is slipping away from me as I go on in life, trying to do what I can do.

What can I do about this situation? I don't have a doctor I usually go to (heck I only go into walk-ins if I'm seriously sick with something, and only if it's _really_ bothering me) and really don't know how to take the first steps.

thanks and cheers,
--N


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 4, 2006)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> This thread is kinda... unnerving, in a way. Many, well most, of the symptons are talking about are things I exhibit, like zoning, zero concentration, mediocre grades in school (except what I like), depression (oh boy, this is a biggie), etc (well, there are many more things, but I can't really think of them all right now)
> 
> The thing is, I know I have some sort of a problem, but I don't know how to deal with it at all. I feel kinda lost and unsure of that part of me, and generally try to ignore it. But it bothers me constantly, and I feel often like time is slipping away from me as I go on in life, trying to do what I can do.
> 
> ...




Step 1) Go to the library and borrow a copy of _Driven to Distraction_ by Dr. Edward M. Hallowell

Step 2) If you lose the book before you finish it they you definately have ADD (or ADHD)


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## Nyaricus (Sep 4, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Step 1) Go to the library and borrow a copy of _Driven to Distraction_ by Dr. Edward M. Hallowell
> 
> Step 2) If you lose the book before you finish it they you definately have ADD (or ADHD)



Sounds like a start, although I rarely have a problem reading


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## Merkuri (Sep 4, 2006)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> What can I do about this situation? I don't have a doctor I usually go to (heck I only go into walk-ins if I'm seriously sick with something, and only if it's _really_ bothering me) and really don't know how to take the first steps.




Well, first of all, get a doctor, especially if you have insurance.  If you don't have insurance then it might be pretty expensive, but a regular doctor gets to know you and your medical history and is better able to diagnose your symptoms based on that medical history.  (I should take my own advice. After moving to MA I haven't gotten a new primary care physician.)  

Once you have a doctor, mention your worries at your first appointment.  He might give you some advice or he might recommend you visit a specialist, but if he's a good doctor he'll know what the next step is that you should take.

Then keep going to your regular appointments with that doctor and/or with the specialist he sends you to, so they can hear whether your treatment (whether it's drugs or therapy or a lifestyle change or something else) is working and prescribe something else if it's not.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 4, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> Well, first of all, get a doctor, especially if you have insurance.  If you don't have insurance then it might be pretty expensive, but a regular doctor gets to know you and your medical history and is better able to diagnose your symptoms based on that medical history.




Nyaricus lives in Canada, they have socialized medicine (for better or worse)



			
				Merkuri said:
			
		

> (I should take my own advice. After moving to MA I haven't gotten a new primary care physician.)




I know of 2 very good Primary Care Physicians in Mass, 1 in Worcester & 1 in Marlboro if either of those is convient


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## Bront (Sep 4, 2006)

I was on Paxil for a while for ADD and depression, and some of what you describe reminds me of my depression, even if you claim it not to be depression.

I was on it for 2 different streches of about a year and a half each, and I've been off it now for almost 4 years.  With therapy and changing a few behaviors, the medication will also help teach your body to fucntion correctly again.  Paxil sort of evened out my emotional state, while I learned how to deal with things better.  The low's weren't so low, though unfortunately the highs weren't as high either, so eventualy I went off of it.

As for the coordination thing, I've been blessed with very good coordination for the most part, so I can't say that realy applies to me, but that doesn't mean it's not normal.


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## Merkuri (Sep 4, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> I know of 2 very good Primary Care Physicians in Mass, 1 in Worcester & 1 in Marlboro if either of those is convient




Those are a little too far, but thanks anyway.  I officially have a PCP (as far as my insurance is concerned) but I have yet to visit him.  I will be making an appointment shortly because my old PCP is (rightly) refusing to renew one of my prescriptions until I make an appointment with a doctor in this state.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 4, 2006)

Bront said:
			
		

> I was on Paxil for a while for ADD and depression, and some of what you describe reminds me of my depression, even if you claim it not to be depression.




Truth be told, I did the Paxil thing for 7 months back in 2002-2003. Did it make me happy? Sure! Was I able to think logically & rationally & get stuff done? No way! The result? Well, I was convinced that I liked a job that I had no business being at. In other words, the Paxil was really great at convincing me that "life was good", even though it wasn't. It's somewhat akin to putting duct-tape on a space shuttle and then louding proclaiming "All systems go for launch!"

But hey, I still do appreciate very much the feedback.

In terms of the coordination thing, sure I was depressed a lot in elementary school. I can't tell you how many times I ended up crying myself to sleep with thoughts like "why can't I do anything right?" or "why am I so much different from the other kids?" But you know what? Once I got passed all that garbage and learned to love myself for who I was, life wasn't all that bad. OK, so I wasn't a jock. So what? Jocks are meatheads anyway, IMHO.

If I've offended any jocks I apologize!


PS: The only sport I actually came to appreciate was hockey. Since the puck is nearly always flat against the ice, I could relate to that sport much better than football, baseball, or basketball, where you never quite knew where the damned ball was going to end up from one moment to the next! Even so, the goalie position has always facinated me. Those guys have to mentally calculate the height & distance of shots coming in at 100 mph instantaneously! AND CATCH THEM! It's magic I tell ya, MAGIC!!!


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## Bront (Sep 4, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Truth be told, I did the Paxil thing for 7 months back in 2002-2003. Did it make me happy? Sure! Was I able to think logically & rationally & get stuff done? No way! The result? Well, I was convinced that I liked a job that I had no business being at. In other words, the Paxil was really great at convincing me that "life was good", even though it wasn't. It's somewhat akin to putting duct-tape on a space shuttle and then louding proclaiming "All systems go for launch!"



Different people get different results.  For me, it stoped panic attacks, allowed me to focus on things I should have been (I managed to get a college education durring one of the treatments), and when I was finaly weaned off of it, I was in much better shape.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 4, 2006)

Bront said:
			
		

> Different people get different results.  For me, it stoped panic attacks, allowed me to focus on things I should have been (I managed to get a college education durring one of the treatments), and when I was finaly weaned off of it, I was in much better shape.



 Well, I'm sincerely glad that it worked for you. It just was really annoying for me, that's all. 

I mean, there are certain pieces of music that affect me so deeply and that I find so beautiful and emotional that I'll play over and over again, just to cry at the most moving parts. Not tears for the sake of sadness, but for the sake of "wow, these musicians REALLY know how to express pure & deep emotions within the context of their music". So, I'll play these and just lie back and listen and wait to be emotionally overwhelmed.

Under the influence of Paxil, however, crying simply wasn't an option. Happiness, but no joy, no wonder, no appreciation of art. The songs I once loved meant nothing to me while on this drug. I found myself saying "why the hell am I listening to this?" I'd like to emphasize that this was definately NOT depressing music, but spiritually uplifting music, mostly "Yes". But I wasn't moved. Nothing moved. It was horrible. Experiencing the SAME emotion 24/7 was just NOT for me.

Again, I'm happy it worked out for you. Thanks so much for the feedback!

PS: I had a series of panic attacks in mid-May of 2004, about 10 days after the death of my father. The day he died was actually the best day of my life. I realize that sounds crappy, but that's just how things are. I wasn't panicked about his loss, but rather, at my own situation. I was 31, unemployed, no solid career path, no car, living at home, no money, 40k in debt (credit cards & student loans), no credit (I'm currently being sued by 2 different credit cards!), no hope. In short, I was screwed. But if my mother all-of-a-sudden passed away, I'd be SUPER SCREWED! When this revelation hit me, I started waking up in the middle of the night and pacing back and forth in small circles, beating a steady rhythm on my chest in an effort to calm my ludicriously-fierce beating heart. This experience turned about 50 of my chin hairs grey!

However, the short-term panic resulted in a long-term plan. Unlike when my father was alive, I now know EXACTLY what I'm going to do with my life this year, next year, the year after that, and the year after that. Is fear my motivator? Perhaps. But it also helps to have a HUGE negative influence remove itself from my existence.


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## ssampier (Sep 5, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Step 1) Go to the library and borrow a copy of _Driven to Distraction_ by Dr. Edward M. Hallowell
> 
> Step 2) If you lose the book before you finish it they you definately have ADD (or ADHD)




Sorry. I got distracted on the way to the library....


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## ssampier (Sep 5, 2006)

Bront said:
			
		

> I was on Paxil for a while for ADD and depression, and some of what you describe reminds me of my depression, even if you claim it not to be depression.




I've thought about that, too, since I have a history of mental illness in my family. Paxil worked okay for you then? Ideally if I need meds, I'd like something with a generic equivalent.


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## Shemeska (Sep 5, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> You may want to look into the Dore program.
> 
> Acording to the Dore program, they have noticed that people with ADD have a less developed Cerebellum then the average person. (The Cerebellum is the part of the brain that controls balance, coordination, & motor control). Their research has found that practicing physical exercises which stimulate the Cerebellum will also lead to reduced symptoms of ADD or ADHD.




I'd urge caution on taking any of the claims of the Dore/DDAT people at face value. 

They really only have a single published study independantly looking at their claims, and that particular study has been slammed by a large number of researchers for being flawed in its setup, and inconclusive in its results. It hasn't really stood up to peer review, and given the cost often associated with their program, I'd give them a rather peery look.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 5, 2006)

Bront said:
			
		

> As for the coordination thing, I've been blessed with very good coordination for the most part, so I can't say that realy applies to me, but that doesn't mean it's not normal.




I did not say that people with ADD cannot be coordinated. While the Cerebellum does control coordination, that is not nessasarily All it does.

According to my therapist, relatively little "brain research" studdies the Cerebellum. Most research is more interedted in the "higher" functions. Some recent studies suggest that the Cerebellum might also be involved in learning.


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## Pbartender (Sep 5, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> On a slightly related topic, does anyone know any non-medication ways to treat ADD?




Willpower.  Concentration.  Patience.  Tenacity.

Practice.  Practice.  Practice.

Start small, and work your way bigger...  Just like any exercise program, except that you are exercising you willpower, concentration, patience and tenacity to complete a task.  

If you live with someone you trust, enlist their help.  Develop simple aids to help you stay on task...  To-do lists, schedules, "gold star" rewards, and such.  Whatever works for you to stay concentrated long enough to get the job done.  At first, break tasks up into smaller portions, and complete one step at a time, with breaks between.  Later, work toward completing multiple steps, before taking a break.  I'm sure you get the idea, here.

My son is slightly autisic.  We didn't find out until halfway through hiw firts year of kindergarten.  My wife and I were adamant that he wouldn't never be medicated for it, and that he would stay in the regular school classes with all the other kids.  Instead, we would work with the teachers and school faculty to find ways for him to work with his autism...  Teaching him to use the strengths of his condition to his advantage, and learning to work around the weaknesses.

He's now in 2nd grade, and has gone from being a uncommunicative, unresponsive, stubbornly resistant 5-year old (mostly because he couldn't find appropriate ways to express himself or maintain his attention long enough to complete tasks he was uninterested in) to being a kind, friendly, open, talkative, independent 8-year old.  Much of that, we have to thank his teachers and his principle for.  Before kindergarten, he was an autistic child with an obvious problem.  Three hard won years later, he's a practically normal kid (meaning he can do anything the other kids can do, even if it means he does it in a different way than they do), who's sometimes just a little bit odd.


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## BOZ (Sep 5, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> You may want to look into the Dore program.
> 
> Acording to the Dore program, they have noticed that people with ADD have a less developed Cerebellum then the average person. (The Cerebellum is the part of the brain that controls balance, coordination, & motor control). Their research has found that practicing physical exercises which stimulate the Cerebellum will also lead to reduced symptoms of ADD or ADHD.




not surprisingly, i am rather clumsy and inathletic.    although, my balance is not bad and i rarely fall (people in high school used to try to trip me as a prank, and they got disappointed at how easily i regained my balance) unless i'm on ice or something.


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## BOZ (Sep 5, 2006)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> This thread is kinda... unnerving, in a way. Many, well most, of the symptons are talking about are things I exhibit, like zoning, zero concentration, mediocre grades in school (except what I like), depression (oh boy, this is a biggie), etc (well, there are many more things, but I can't really think of them all right now)
> 
> The thing is, I know I have some sort of a problem, but I don't know how to deal with it at all. I feel kinda lost and unsure of that part of me, and generally try to ignore it. But it bothers me constantly, and I feel often like time is slipping away from me as I go on in life, trying to do what I can do.
> 
> ...




well, if you do have ADD, you have something that i didn't have at your age - a place to talk about it with other people who have it in common.  i felt pretty alone as a kid, for that, and in some ways still do.


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## BOZ (Sep 5, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Step 1) Go to the library and borrow a copy of _Driven to Distraction_ by Dr. Edward M. Hallowell
> 
> Step 2) If you lose the book before you finish it they you definately have ADD (or ADHD)




  i was never able to read it through.  but then, non-fiction often does that to me, much moreso than fiction.   :\


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 5, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> i was never able to read it through.  but then, non-fiction often does that to me, much moreso than fiction.   :\




Within the book there is a 100 question self-evaluation, if I remember correctly, Question 100 is "Did you finish all the questions?"


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## Merkuri (Sep 5, 2006)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> Willpower.  Concentration.  Patience.  Tenacity.
> 
> Practice.  Practice.  Practice.
> 
> Start small, and work your way bigger...  Just like any exercise program, except that you are exercising you willpower, concentration, patience and tenacity to complete a task.




I don't have problems completing tasks (aside from normal procrastination that everyone gets).  I get plenty of stuff done, using todo lists and things like that.  My big problem is concentrating when participating in a passive task, like reading a homework assignment or sitting in on a meeting.  Nowadays I only read things I'm interested in, so that's not so much a problem, but the meetings are.  I don't know how to practice concentrating.  

I also had a problem adding small sums of numbers in my head, and I think it's also related to the ADD.  If you asked me to add 23 and 8 without the aid of paper or a calculator I could do it, but it would take me much longer than the average person.  My problem is that I can't hold the numbers in my head long enough to do the math.  I'll add the 3 and the 8 to get 11 and I know how to carry the 1, but at that point I've already forgotten what the first number was that I'm supposed to be adding (23).  When I mentally put that 23 back I forgot what number I got for the 1s place (11).  If the numbers are written down in front of me I can do it much easier, but when it's all mental I just can't hold the numbers in place long enough.

I've found that the game Kakuro helped me with that a little.  It's fun, so it keeps my concentration, and it requires adding and subtracting small numbers.  The more I play the game the better I find myself able to add numbers in my head.

So is there some sort of exercise or game that will help my concentration during passive tasks, like sitting in on a meeting?


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## Pbartender (Sep 5, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> I don't have problems completing tasks (aside from normal procrastination that everyone gets).  I get plenty of stuff done, using todo lists and things like that.  My big problem is concentrating when participating in a passive task, like reading a homework assignment or sitting in on a meeting.  Nowadays I only read things I'm interested in, so that's not so much a problem, but the meetings are.  I don't know how to practice concentrating.




Link an active task to the passive task.

For example, learn how to take good notes, and then take notes during meetings.  The act of writing down important points and details form the meeting helps focus concentration, and even then if your mind wanders, you've always got your notes to look back on as a reminder.

Or write down questions you can ask for clarification on points in the meeting...  Even if you already know the answer to the question, if it's a good question, ask it anyway.  Someone else may be looking for the answer to the same question and not realize it yet, and it always impresses the bosses if an employee asks intelligence questions.



			
				Merkuri said:
			
		

> I also had a problem adding small sums of numbers in my head, and I think it's also related to the ADD.  If you asked me to add 23 and 8 without the aid of paper or a calculator I could do it, but it would take me much longer than the average person.  My problem is that I can't hold the numbers in my head long enough to do the math.  I'll add the 3 and the 8 to get 11 and I know how to carry the 1, but at that point I've already forgotten what the first number was that I'm supposed to be adding (23).  When I mentally put that 23 back I forgot what number I got for the 1s place (11).  If the numbers are written down in front of me I can do it much easier, but when it's all mental I just can't hold the numbers in place long enough.




Work around the ADD and find a different way to do it that's better for you.  A few suggestions...

If you're not too proud to do it, go get an elementray school workbook on mathematics.  Get one with pages full of simple addition, subtraction, multiplication and division problems (you know the kind...  a page of fifty or a hundred problems for those timed tests we used to take in grade school).  Make photocopies of each page and do them in your spare time until its second nature.  That way, you don't have to "hold the numbers in your head" for so long, you can add the numbers before you forget what you were doing. (This is what we're doing with my son, at the moment.)

Or, visualize the numbers in your head, as if you had them written down on paper.  Visualize carrying that "1" to the top of the tens place, when you add 8 and 3 and get 11. (I do this one a lot, myself...  It helps my poor memory to visualize what I'm doing in my head.)

Or, find an alternate way to do the math.  For example, when I multiply 19 times 22 in my head, I don't think "9 times 22, plus 10 times 22", because then I start thinking, "9 times 2 plus 9 times 20 plus 10 times 2 plus 10 times 20" and there's too many numbers all at once and I get all muddled up.  Instead, I think "20 times 22, minus 1 times 22", which seems a bit convoluted, but is a lot easier for me to do in my head...  "20 times 22 = 440; 1 times 22 = 22; 440 minus 22 = 420 minus 2 = 418". (My wife goodnaturedly laughs whenever I do math this way, "That's weird...  I don't know how you do it backwards.")

The point is, and what we've been teaching my son for the last 3 years, this:  Because of the autism or ADD or whatever, your brain is wired a little bit differently than everybody else's.  If you try doing things the way everybody else does them, you are going to run into problems.  That doesn't mean you're worse off than a "normal" person, or that you can't do things that they can...  Quite the contrary, in fact, many things that "normal" people find difficult can be quite easy for you and vice versa.  All it means is that you need to find a different way to do it -- whatever way that happens to work best for you.

For anyone interested, I'd highly recommend reading _The Speed of Dark_, by Elizabeth Moon.


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## ssampier (Sep 6, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> Much happier now, and the lack of concentration only comes into play maybe once a month at work.  I work in tech support.  I don't have meetings all that often, and that's usually when I start zoning.  There have been one or two times when I've zoned out while talking to a customer, though, and I've had to ask them to repeat themselves.  That's embarrassing, but not as bad as one sales guy at work.  He's seriously overworked, and he's told me before that he's fallen asleep while on the phone with the customer.  If he wakes up in the middle of the call and no one is talking, he just says, "Oh?" and the customer starts talking again.




I do that, too. Oddly enough, I work technical support also. Usually a customer will tell me, "Can you hold on one minute?" I say, "Sure!" Then I usually do some busy work to occupy myself, then I'll forget what screen or area we were at.


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## ssampier (Sep 6, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> I also had a problem adding small sums of numbers in my head, and I think it's also related to the ADD.  If you asked me to add 23 and 8 without the aid of paper or a calculator I could do it, but it would take me much longer than the average person.  My problem is that I can't hold the numbers in my head long enough to do the math.  I'll add the 3 and the 8 to get 11 and I know how to carry the 1, but at that point I've already forgotten what the first number was that I'm supposed to be adding (23).  When I mentally put that 23 back I forgot what number I got for the 1s place (11).  If the numbers are written down in front of me I can do it much easier, but when it's all mental I just can't hold the numbers in place long enough.
> 
> I




Hmm, interesting. I have a bit of math anxiety. I tend to transpose numbers in my head, too, which doesn't help (i.e. phone numbers especially: 555-6135 become 555-6351.


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## Merkuri (Sep 6, 2006)

ssampier said:
			
		

> I tend to transpose numbers in my head, too, which doesn't help (i.e. phone numbers especially: 555-6135 become 555-6351.




Oh, yes.  I've learned to check numbers very carefully because of this.  I think everyone does this to some degree.  I've found that reading numbers in pairs helps.  We have case numbers at work that are usually five digits long, for example: 33214.  When I read them to myself I'll say 33-2-41 or 33-21-4 rather than 3-3-2-1-4.  I found that pairing them up helps stop me from transposing them as often.  It still happens, but not as frequently.

One time when I was still living with my parents I went to call my mother at work.  I didn't have the number memorized, but I had written it down a long time ago, so I called the number on the paper.  I got a wrong number.  I dialed again, being very careful to dial the numbers exactly and got the same wrong number.  I dialed a third time, checking each digit and poking it deliberately on the phone to be sure I'd pressed the write button.  Same wrong number.  Finally, I pulled out the phone book, called the front desk at the hospital where she worked, and asked them for her department.  When I got her on the phone I asked her to confirm the number.  Turns out I had transposed the last two numbers when I wrote it down, but the thing was I had been using that same piece of paper to sucessfully dial her work number for the past month.  I must've been transposing the already-transposed numbers each time I dialed so I ended up dialing the correct number.  It was kinda freaky that I went that many phone calls without realizeing I had the number written down wrong.


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## papastebu (Sep 6, 2006)

electroencephalographic biofeedback. it trains your perceptions to notice when you're doing ADD things. I found out about five years ago that I have ADD, and me and the wife have been round and round about treatment. I don't like drugs, having had a lot of them and quit--on my own, I might add--I dread any new exposure, and many of the treatments, Ritalin included, are based on methamphetamines--the root for crystal meth--making them terrifying to me. I have yet to start with the eeg machine that my best friend loaned me, but I think about it a lot.  
referring back to the OP, it seems that you get some good benefit from your condition, aside from the detriment. In my psychotherapist's office is a sign that says "Having Attention Deficit Disorder is like catching a dragon by the tail." We have so much potential in terms of creativity that it is very often difficult to know where to start. Once we do start something, it seems that the next thing on our minds becomes a lot more attractive, so we jump to that, casting off the dross of our previous activity. The answer lies in taking all of these new starts and making them into a cohesive effort to the point of finishing.
If you are doing it right, then the finish of the situation, whatever the project might be, then the end will sort of sneak up on you.

I try and keep several things going at the same time, so that my awareness never loses its stimulation. If all else fails, I get up and walk around, thinking on my feet, making that the "other thing" that I'm doing.

Another thing I read about last year is a drug called Stratera. I've been told that it is non-habit-forming, and that it really helps with the distraction. I am scared of this one, too, but I think that it would be the one that I would take if I were going to medicate myself.

Good luck with everything. Definitely post again if you encounter something that helps you out, because I also read that something like one-third of the population of the U.S. has ADD or some variant. Read _The Complete Guide To ADHD_ , I think the name is, by Phil Hartman. A great deal of positive-thinking and well-researched ideas, here.

Anyway. Gotta go get my boy at school, so ya'll have a great day!


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## Nellisir (Sep 7, 2006)

Adderall and Ritalin are the two big ADD medications.  Most people apparently prefer, and do better on, Adderall.  I couldn't stand it, and switched doctors after my first one recommended both increasing and decreasing my dosage...in the same 15 minute session.  I've been on Concerta, which I believe is essentially extended release Ritalin, for about a year, and it's much better for me.  Many people complain of a Ritalin "slump" after the meds wear off, but I had that with Adderall and not with Ritalin.  So, definately try different things.

ADD manifests differently in different people.  I have what I call my "little voice" in the back of my head.  It chatters all day, all night, constantly.  I can't stay on boring tasks; but I can read like a son-of-a-gun.  Music and book are the only things that soothe the chattering beast.

My coordination is just fine.

There are a variety of different non-medicinal ways of dealing with ADD; the best approach is simply to do research and find what feels comfortable for you.  I have no problem with medication, so I take it.

The one thing everyone does is learn different ways of coping.  It might be to always carry a notepad and pen, or mnemonic devices, or simply avoid things (and jobs) that bore you.  The older you get, the more coping techniques you learn.  I suspect some non-medicinal ADD "remedies" are simply cram courses for coping mechanisms, but that may be a good plan for you or someone else.

My father, incidently, takes an antidepressant to treat his ADD.  So like I said, don't be afraid to switch meds.  Find an experienced doctor.


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## BOZ (Sep 7, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I have what I call my "little voice" in the back of my head.  It chatters all day, all night, constantly.




mine seems to be more like the static you'd hear from a TV or radio, though only just loud enough to be audible - almost like a slight ringing in the ears at times.


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## Nyaricus (Sep 7, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> mine seems to be more like the static you'd hear from a TV or radio, though only just loud enough to be audible - almost like a slight ringing in the ears at times.



My friend has that, and it could actually be more serious than you think. I just asked him over MSN, adn it sounds like this "tenatus"; though he doesn't know how it's spelt correctly

Last year, a man in Wininpeg actually commited suicide after it drove him half-mad. There are some tenative studies and/or suggestions that state that techo is actually really good to listen to, since it constant changes its' beats and speed, and thus 'breaks up' the constant ringing in your head.

Not saying that you have this (I'm hardly a doctor) but if you can, try to get this checked out 

cheers,
--N


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## Bront (Sep 7, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> well, if you do have ADD, you have something that i didn't have at your age - a place to talk about it with other people who have it in common.  i felt pretty alone as a kid, for that, and in some ways still do.



I hear you.

I wasn't diagnosed with it till after I was 20.  People just weren't talking about it much when I was a kid, particularly because I wasn't hyperactive.


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## Merkuri (Sep 7, 2006)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> My friend has that, and it could actually be more serious than you think. I just asked him over MSN, adn it sounds like this "tenatus"; though he doesn't know how it's spelt correctly




I thought it sounded like tinnitus, too.  I have that, but it's not bad enough to bother me.  It's quiet enough that I only hear it in near-silence.  Everyday noises, like birds and crickets outside or the keyboard clacking, drown it out.  I've had it all of my life and thought it was normal until a few years ago.  When I was a kid I told somebody there's really no such thing as silence because I thought everyone had that buzz in their ears when everything was perfectly quiet.  I only realized I had it when my dad found out HE had it, and he'd had it for his whole life without realizing it.  It can be genetic.  It can also be caused by extended periods of loud sounds (like a rock concert), but in my case it came from my dad.

Whenever I take hearing tests they tell me that my hearing is perfect, but really if the tone they play was constant and not broken (if it was "beeeeeeeeeep" instead of "beepbeepbeep") then I'd do a lot worse.  My tinnitus is worst when in a silent room, like during hearing tests, and it's hard to hear the beeping over the whine in my head.

Very different from ADD.  An ADD "buzz" is just your own internal monolouge thinking out of control, going off on different tangents.  It's not an audible sound, like the "static" of tinnitus.  I guess you could say that if your head is a TV that tinnitus would be a problem with hissing speakers, but ADD would be when the remote's broken and it won't stop changing channels on you.


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## Nellisir (Sep 7, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> Very different from ADD.  An ADD "buzz" is just your own internal monolouge thinking out of control, going off on different tangents.  It's not an audible sound, like the "static" of tinnitus.  I guess you could say that if your head is a TV that tinnitus would be a problem with hissing speakers, but ADD would be when the remote's broken and it won't stop changing channels on you.




That's more or less it, although in my case life is a movie on MST3K, and the voice is the guys in the theatre.  They're always there, and they really do play along most of the time - my ADD is annoying but not crippling - but it is distracting.


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## Nyaricus (Sep 8, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> I guess you could say that if your head is a TV that tinnitus would be a problem with hissing speakers, but ADD would be when the remote's broken and it won't stop changing channels on you.



lol, that was actually funny 

I told my buddy, and he got a kick out of it too


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## BOZ (Sep 11, 2006)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> My friend has that, and it could actually be more serious than you think. I just asked him over MSN, adn it sounds like this "tenatus"; though he doesn't know how it's spelt correctly




i could have tinnitus for all i know - in fact, right now my left ear has been ringing all day, and it has been driving me mad.  don't know if it's an ear infection, or what... but i'm sure tinnitus occurs more than once a year or so, which is about as often as this happens to me.  i think it's just this ear though, as it has been giving me trouble for years now.

but as to what i was talking about originally, the "ringing in the ears" that i usually get might better be described as a buzzing sound, like if you were in a room filled with machinery, though it is very faint and i can only hear it when things are otherwise fairly silent and i'm focused on it, and that comes in both ears rather than just my left ear.


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## BOZ (Sep 11, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> That's more or less it, although in my case life is a movie on MST3K, and the voice is the guys in the theatre.  They're always there, and they really do play along most of the time - my ADD is annoying but not crippling - but it is distracting.




heheheh... actually, my own internal monologue is quite a bit like that.    i often decide to share my less-than-witty remarks with others - mostly for my own amusement.    don't know if that's the ADD though, or just my own winning personality shining through.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 11, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> I currently use Adderol extended release, which still has a peak efficiency of mid-day, then a "trough" in the late afternoon, but the XR version is not as "high & low" as taking multiple doses in a day.




Mavrick,

Just curious, what sort of side effects (if any) do you get with Adderol? Also, are you using the brand name or a generic version? How expensive are the meds?

Sorry for the merciless onslaught of questions, but I see my doctor this Wednesday morning and am going to ask if I can be switched from Methylin to Adderol, just as an experiment. I don't know if Adderol will be better for me, but I won't know until I try, right?

Thanks!


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 11, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Adderall and Ritalin are the two big ADD medications.  Most people apparently prefer, and do better on, Adderall.  I couldn't stand it, and switched doctors after my first one recommended both increasing and decreasing my dosage...in the same 15 minute session.  I've been on Concerta, which I believe is essentially extended release Ritalin, for about a year, and it's much better for me.  Many people complain of a Ritalin "slump" after the meds wear off, but I had that with Adderall and not with Ritalin.  So, definately try different things.




Hopefully, I'll be trying out Adderol later in the week. Thanks!


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## Nellisir (Sep 11, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Just curious, what sort of side effects (if any) do you get with Adderol?




I know the question wasn't addressed to me, but...
I had insomnia (pretty bad), slightly depressed appetite (not a problem), and when the medication wore out around 5 or 6...WHAM!  If I sat down I'd be down for 2 hours.  Not tired, just...inert.

Keep trying!
Nell.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 12, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> I know the question wasn't addressed to me, but...
> I had insomnia (pretty bad), slightly depressed appetite (not a problem), and when the medication wore out around 5 or 6...WHAM!  If I sat down I'd be down for 2 hours.  Not tired, just...inert.
> 
> Keep trying!
> Nell.




Very similar results. When I was taking multipe daily doses, I couldn't sleep at night if I took it after 1pm.

In the begining my lose of appetite got bad enough that I lost 20 lbs and started to get the shakes. (Because at the same time my appetite goes down, I was using up more calories). Now I always make sure to eat breakfast before I take it and I sometimes force myself to eat lunch. 

Another thing is increase your water intake, especially if you start to feel "down"

If you don't eat enough food and drink enough water, it is like putting a supercharged fuel injector on a car with a 1 gallon gas tank.

The "positive" affects seem to run out after 4 to 6 hours (roughly) then it can take from 8 to 12 hours to fully "recover"


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## Nellisir (Sep 12, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Very similar results. When I was taking multipe daily doses, I couldn't sleep at night if I took it after 1pm.
> 
> In the begining my lose of appetite got bad enough that I lost 20 lbs and started to get the shakes. (Because at the same time my appetite goes down, I was using up more calories). Now I always make sure to eat breakfast before I take it and I sometimes force myself to eat lunch.
> 
> ...




Yep.  I will say that my diminished appetite cut down on my snacking, but not my meals.  I ate at the same time I usually did.  I lost maybe 10 pounds, but I was trying to lose it.  So it worked out.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 13, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Yep.  I will say that my diminished appetite cut down on my snacking, but not my meals.  I ate at the same time I usually did.  I lost maybe 10 pounds, but I was trying to lose it.  So it worked out.



 Hey guys, thanks for the input!

OK, saw my doctor today. I quickly found out that I didn't research the Adderol as much as I should've. This was apparent when he informed me that:

1) Adderol costs significantly more than my generic Ritalin.
2) There is no generic for Adderol (that he knew of).

So, again, he waited prescribing me Adderol until we both knew if I could afford a generic version of it.

Currently, 120 10mg tablets of Methylin (generic form of Ritalin) are costing me $20. 

Is there a generic for Adderol?

What do you guys pay for your medication (if you feel comfortable enough discussing it)?

Thanks Again!


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## Nellisir (Sep 13, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> What do you guys pay for your medication (if you feel comfortable enough discussing it)?




I've got a $20 or $25 dollar copay for my Concerta.  That's per month.  I don't know the "uninsured" cost.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 14, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Hey guys, thanks for the input!
> 
> OK, saw my doctor today. I quickly found out that I didn't research the Adderol as much as I should've. This was apparent when he informed me that:
> 
> ...




I think that there is a generic version of Adderall, but it requires multiple 5 or 10 or 20 mg doses over the course of the day.

Adderall XR Which you take once a day in the morning, is designed for a sustained dose over several hours, and does not have a generic.


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 16, 2006)

I know these boards aren't supposed to discuss religion but, there IS a god. And it's name is "Costco"!

I went to "Rite Aid" and they told me "yes, there's a generic for Adderall. It's about $160". 

So I then went to the "Costco" pharmacy where I was informed the generic Adderall is $40! 

Though I have to wait until Tuesday for the prescription to be filled, I'm glad I have the wherewithal to know about the magical & wonderous Costco!

FWIW, I'll be on the 10mg strength, with a quantity of 120. Taken twice daily, that's $40 for a two-month supply. Not too shabby, eh?

Unfortunately, there is no generic for EXTENDED RELEASE Adderall. Doesn't mean that there wont' be in the future....


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## Tuzenbach (Sep 21, 2006)

OMFG.....

Well, I've now been on generic Adderall (quaintly named "Amphetamine Salts") for the past 9 hours and have nothing but good things to say about the experience.

However, I'm sure this lucid & surreal high is merely my brain/body getting used to the new meds in my system.

Thus, I'll pop in with a full report in about 2 weeks or so. 

In the meantime, a HUGE *thank you* to both MavrickWeirdo & Nellisir for all their helpful Adderall feedback! THANKS DUDES!!!


PS: I haven't eaten since breakfast time (10 hours ago), how come I'm not hungry?


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## Nellisir (Sep 21, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> OMFG.....
> 
> Well, I've now been on generic Adderall (quaintly named "Amphetamine Salts") for the past 9 hours and have nothing but good things to say about the experience.
> 
> ...




Because one of the side effects is appetite suppressant.  And it's a stimulant, so it'll give you a bit of a rush. Fun, ain't it?    

You do need to remember to eat.  Three square meals a day.  And for god's sake, don't take any after, ah, probably 3 pm!  Trust me, the rush is worn off by 5 frickin' am in the morning; just leaves sleeplessness behind.

And incidently, now is a really good time to cut back on caffeine.  If you've been "self-medicating" that way, you can knock it off.  Just remember to drink lots of fluids.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 21, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> PS: I haven't eaten since breakfast time (10 hours ago), how come I'm not hungry?




In my experience, two of the body's major processes are "eat" (digestion) and "run" (physical activity). The body doesn't like to do both at the same time. When you are on the meds it increases you metabolism (heartrate & blood pressure go up) which your body interprets as "run". When "most people" would get hunger messages, your body is blocking the messages ("not now I'm running").

However while you won't feel "hungry", your faster metabolism will use up food faster. No one warned me about this and after 2 weeks I got the shakes, because I was not eating enough and my body went into "starvation mode".

Personally I make sure to eat just before I take my meds, even if I am not hungry.


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## ssampier (Sep 22, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> ...
> And incidently, now is a really good time to cut back on caffeine.  If you've been "self-medicating" that way, you can knock it off.  Just remember to drink lots of fluids.





I have never diagnosed with anything, but I do drink A LOT of caffeine (usually between 4-5 12 oz cups of coffee).


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## Nellisir (Sep 22, 2006)

ssampier said:
			
		

> I have never diagnosed with anything, but I do drink A LOT of caffeine (usually between 4-5 12 oz cups of coffee).




Caffeine does help some people with ADD, but not as well as prescribed medication.  Alot of people with undiagnosed ADD probably self-medicate with coffee &/or caffeinated soda.


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## Merkuri (Sep 22, 2006)

Hmm, maybe I should start tossing back the tea the next time I need to go into a meeting. 

Of course, tea probably isn't caffinated enough to make a huge difference, and I'm not a big coffee or soda fan.  If I drank enough tea to affect my potential ADD I'd probably have to leave the meeting every five minutes to pee.


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## ssampier (Sep 23, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Caffeine does help some people with ADD, but not as well as prescribed medication.  Alot of people with undiagnosed ADD probably self-medicate with coffee &/or caffeinated soda.




So what does the caffeine do to help the ADD? I drink lots of caffeine to stay awake, not to concentrate


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## Merkuri (Sep 23, 2006)

Most ADD drugs are stimulants.  So is caffene.  I'm not sure how the science of it works, but stimulants help banish ADD symptoms.


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## Nellisir (Sep 23, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> Most ADD drugs are stimulants.  So is caffene.  I'm not sure how the science of it works, but stimulants help banish ADD symptoms.




That's about it, though I think "banish" is a bit strong.  "Moderate" is more to my liking.  In very gross, broad terms, stimulants can have the counterintuitive effect of focusing and "calming" ADD symptoms.

It's still addictive, and it's still a stimulant.  I don't have caffeine after 3 pm anymore because it wrecks my sleep.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 24, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> That's about it, though I think "banish" is a bit strong.  "Moderate" is more to my liking.  In very gross, broad terms, stimulants can have the counterintuitive effect of focusing and "calming" ADD symptoms.
> 
> It's still addictive, and it's still a stimulant.  I don't have caffeine after 3 pm anymore because it wrecks my sleep.




The common theory is that increasing the metabolism (with a stimulant) triggers a "Fight or Flight" response which improves the person's ability to focus. 

Some people self medicate with caffine

Others self medicate with stress


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## Gilladian (Sep 24, 2006)

Hey, all,
I have two brothers who were both diagnosed as ADHD  as kids 30+ years ago. Neither were - my older brother probably has borderline Asperger's syndrome (a form of autism) and my younger brother has a very rare (like he's the only one) neurological problem. It involves his  optic centers in the brain (they've done tissue biopsies, even) and also causes petit-mal like seizures on a constant basis.

Anyway, there are MANY problems that can masquerade as ADD or ADHD.

As far as tea and coffee and caffeine, here's a chart from a random website that lists a bit of info:
Double espresso (2oz)	45-100 mg
Brewed coffee (8 oz)	60-120 mg
Instant coffee (8 oz)	70 mg
Decaf coffee (8 oz)	1-5 mg
Tea - black (8 oz)	45 mg
Tea - green (8 oz)	20 mg
Tea - white (8 oz)	15 mg
Coca Cola (12 oz can)	34 mg
Pepsi (12 oz can)	38 mg
Barq's Root Beer (12 oz can)	22 mg
7-up (12 oz)	0 mg
Chocolate milk (8 oz)	4 mg
Dark chocolate (1 oz)	20 mg
Milk chocolate (1 oz)	6 mg
Ben & Jerry's Coffee Fudge Frozen Yogurt (8 oz)	85 mg


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## Ferret (Sep 24, 2006)

As a child I acted out in an odd way, pick fights and not do well at school. Thankfully my mum figured out what it might be, and got me to a doctor. I was diagnosed with "Symptoms of Dyslexia and mild Dyspraxia". Later on I got the ADD tag as well. (Symptoms of dyslexia means I don't mixed up letters in words, or read things wrong but sometimes my hands will just type/write the wrong word, silly things like that).

I went through the thread and made notes, to help, so this isn't going to be terribly coherent. 

Like some of the others I have an inner monologue, not another voice, but just me constantly thinking (constantly, sometime it keeps me up at night) but it is ME. This can be handy, cos I'm constantly thinking (some) things through, and I have some cool ideas every now and then. But it does mean I day dream, and/or interject a conversation with a random idea or sentence. I can hear someone say something, like a lyric and the song will start playing in my head. That reminds me, I can duplicate someone’s voice in my head, nearly perfectly, except when I have 'romantic' feeling about them, which I think is odd. I can also picture people in my head really well.

 I also can't keep my mouth closed, its almost impossible for me to not say something stupid, as a quip to whatever was said before me. This has gotten me a bad reputation. (The other day I said something dirty without thinking about it, as in what people will think, not in a tourettes kind of way).

As a child I was frustrated, and I had a short temper, I'd blow my fuse at the slightest thing. And completely lose it  . It wasn't anger, it was more like frustration. Once when I was in secondary school ('high school') I lost my temper over a paper aeroplane I spent ALL lunch time making and someone just screwed it up. I pushed the person over, and attacked my best friend  . But that was at least four years ago, and the time before that was 6-7 years ago. I did start taking Ritalin when I was about 10 yrs old, without any real side effects. Except (and looking back I realise it just now) It might have left me a bit humorless. And also across the years I've had spells of thinking 'What’s the point of life' as in not my life but in general, in a philosophical sense but I'd always work myself out of it cos I KNEW it wasn't a real feeling. 

This gets me on to music, sometime music is just amazing, it can just carry me away. I can get a bit emotional about it. Not always sad songs, but I did cry when I heard 'Stan' for the first time (what a waste of a life), but also songs like Chapter four, or two little boys. It’s the loyalty thing I think that gets me.

Back to my school days, I was really good at maths, well the mental arithmetic side, but the working out slowed me down and I didn’t see the point. Also I had (if my memory serves) a reading age of a 16 year old when I was about 11, I did try to read Terry Pratchett in primary school but my teacher wouldn’t let me. Later on in secondary school I was ‘good’ at writing, when I could explain myself in writing. The imagination was there but the effort to write it down was sometimes too much, I would get distracted. I also found it hard to work with others, I think mainly cos I wanted to do things my way, cos I didn’t understand why people would do it the way they did. 

I also had dreadful hand-eye co-ordination, I really was not and am not sporting. I can barely kick a football straight. I can also be quite random, since taking my self off of Concerta XL I’ve regained some randomness (like pretending to be stabbed by my drinks bottle in my empty kitchen). 

I’m not sure what this has to do with ADD, but I’ve always had this need to do well, and I get frustrated and a bit down when I fail, I’m thinking ‘Why did I do so bad?’ not, ‘I’m no good at anything’ though. Also I have an atrocious memory, I think of it like each memory is on a piece of glass, and when I look at them the similar ones pile on top of each other and merge together, so asking what I did last week in physics brings nothing up cos I’ve had just so many lessons. But other things like formulas or events that were out of the norm I can recall easily, oh and my memories are 99% in the 3rd person :s. That description of my memory btw is an example of me thinking too much, whilst distracted.

Oh and the last thing on my notes says ‘Numbers in groups’ which is something I do to.

I don’t know whether writing something this long was a good idea considering its going to be read by people with a short attention span lol. But I just wrote..so yeah.

What do you tihnk


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 25, 2006)

Ferret said:
			
		

> As a child I acted out in an odd way, pick fights and not do well at school. Thankfully my mum figured out what it might be, and got me to a doctor. I was diagnosed with "Symptoms of Dyslexia and mild Dyspraxia". Later on I got the ADD tag as well. (Symptoms of dyslexia means I don't mixed up letters in words, or read things wrong but sometimes my hands will just type/write the wrong word, silly things like that).
> 
> I went through the thread and made notes, to help, so this isn't going to be terribly coherent.
> 
> ...




Quips: I have said before that I always know the "perfectly right" thing to say and the "absolutely wrong" thing to say, I just can't tell which is which.

Frustration: People with ADD often have little patience for interruptions, especially if they are "focused" or "on a roll", because they know that an interruption might prevent them from Ever finishing what they are doing.

Music: How about _"Cat's in the Cradle"_ by Harry Chapin? Moments of pride/recognition are what "chokes me up"

Memory: My memory tends to be associative (metaphorical) rather than literal. I am terrible at 'names and dates'. For example:

When I moved recently we had a one way rental on the truck. My wife asked me in what town we were dropping it off? All I could think of was 'Silver', but I know there is no such town as 'Silver, Massachusetts', so I thought about it some more, but I kept coming back to 'Silver'. My wife was getting impatient at this point and asked again. I hesitantly answered _"Silver?"_

"Do you mean, *Sterling*?   

"Yes, Stirling Mass., that's exactly what I mean."


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## BOZ (Sep 25, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Frustration: People with ADD often have little patience for interruptions, especially if they are "focused" or "on a roll", because they know that an interruption might prevent them from Ever finishing what they are doing.




oh man, that's me for sure.  i've gotten angry with my wife a few too many times for this.  

for one thing, if i'm trying hard to remember something, and someone interrupts the train of thought that's keeping it in my head, it can be pretty hard to recall it.


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## BOZ (Sep 25, 2006)

MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> Memory: My memory tends to be associative (metaphorical) rather than literal. I am terrible at 'names and dates'.




heh, yeah, that's me too.  my mind likes to associate with music.  at my job, i often deal with names of people and places.  often enough, songs just pop into my head for no reason that i can figure.  for example, "Last Train to Clarksville" often comes up.  i look at the document i'm working on, and i realize, "Oh, this person lives in Clarksville Tennessee."


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## Ferret (Sep 25, 2006)

I've not heard cats in the cradle, but I'll try and find it.

on the frustration, I get angry when someone tries to talk to me whilst I'm on the phone to someone, I don't know why but I just can't cope. And I often use mnemonics to help my memory, and that really helps, but I've never done the association thing.


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## Merkuri (Sep 25, 2006)

Oh, I know the whole interruption thing.  If I'm writing something, for example, and something takes away my attention it can take me as much as 30 seconds to return to my train of thought.  This doesn't seem like much, but when it should take you a minute to write something down, a 30-second gap when you're trying to regain your concentration is terrible.  

I work in tech support, and we're supposed to keep a log of all calls we have with our customers.  Most days it's no problem to take a few moments after the call to type down a log of what happened, but there have been days where it's been rapid-fire calls.  Unbeknownst to me, someone is waiting on hold to talk to me, and a few moments after I hang up the phone I get another call from the lady at the front desk, asking if I want to talk to so-and-so.  Regardless of who it is, I always ask her to hold them until I'm done writing down the call log, but just saying, "Hold 'em," is enough to break my concentration and it can take me what feels like forever to start typing again.  If this seems to happen all day, eventually I will find myself snapping at her, though I know she's just doing her job.  She has no way of knowing when I'm done writing the call log, and she has to let me know there's someone holding for me.  She sometimes calls up and immediately says, "I'll hold them, but I have so-and-so for you," but that doens't help me keep my concentration.

And I get EXTREMELY frustrated if someone tries to talk to me while I'm on the phone.  I cannot drown one person out and hear the other.  If two people are trying to talk to me, I hear neither of them.  Most people are considerate enough to apologize and walk away when they notice I'm on the phone, or to stop talking and write me a note, but a few months ago I snapped at a coworker for refusing to stop talking to me, even when I made it clear to her that I was on the phone and waved her away a few times.  I had to interrupt the customer who was talking to me, ask him to hold, and snapped at the woman, "What?!?  I'm on the phone!?!"  It turns out she had a simple question that could've been easily answered if she had written it down, allowed me a moment to read it when I felt able, and then wrote her a note back.  I felt bad for snapping at her, but at the same time I felt like she was being extremely rude by refusing to stop speaking, even when I made it painfully clear that I was on the phone and unable to pay her the attention she needed.

Even if you don't have ADD, it's very hard to have a conversation with two people at once when neither person you are speaking to can hear the other.


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## Michael Tree (Sep 25, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Interestingly, from a strictly "Behavioristic" point of view, they would classify the action described above as merely "lying in bed" and make no record whatsover of all the imagination stuff going on. Why? Because "thinking" doesn't qualify as a behavior, according to these genius people!
> 
> And I'm in the right to criticize them as I've actually held the title of "Behavior Therapist" while working with autistic children. I hold a BA in Psychology & acted as a course-coordinator for my university's class on Behavior Modification. I'll be the first to say that the technique is DEFINATELY NOT appropriate for all situations, though Behaviorists will say otherwise.



When laymen and psychotherapists talk about behavior therapy, they're most often talking about Cognitive Behavioral Therapy (CBT).  CBT focuses a great deal on thoughts and emotions, and places a lot of weight on their influence.  Purely behavioral interventions like you're talking about are rarely if ever used for anything aside from autism or extreme psychosis.  

As for non-pharmaceutical things that help ADD, I have two recommendations.  First, diet.  Cutting the sugary pop, sugary juices, candy, and white bread can have a big influence on kids with ADD symptoms.

Second, mindfulness techniques can also be helpful for focus, staying in the here and now, and reducing stress and anxiety.


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## Ferret (Sep 25, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> And I get EXTREMELY frustrated if someone tries to talk to me while I'm on the phone.  I cannot drown one person out and hear the other.  If two people are trying to talk to me, I hear neither of them.  Most people are considerate enough to apologize and walk away when they notice I'm on the phone, or to stop talking and write me a note, but a few months ago I snapped at a coworker for refusing to stop talking to me, even when I made it clear to her that I was on the phone and waved her away a few times.  I had to interrupt the customer who was talking to me, ask him to hold, and snapped at the woman, "What?!?  I'm on the phone!?!"  It turns out she had a simple question that could've been easily answered if she had written it down, allowed me a moment to read it when I felt able, and then wrote her a note back.  I felt bad for snapping at her, but at the same time I felt like she was being extremely rude by refusing to stop speaking, even when I made it painfully clear that I was on the phone and unable to pay her the attention she needed.




I couldn't have put it better my self. Thats exactly how I am.


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## BOZ (Sep 26, 2006)

yeah, but how many people actually like to have more than one conversation going on at once?    i figure most people don't have the capacity to follow two conversations at the same time.


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## ssampier (Sep 26, 2006)

I don't know what I am but my mind is definately a one-stop freight train - it can do only one thing at a time. If I do more than one, I get confused and may get side-tracked. Ironically enough somtimes I do like the TV or radio on for white-noise.


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## ssampier (Sep 26, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> ...It turns out she had a simple question that could've been easily answered if she had written it down, allowed me a moment to read it when I felt able, and then wrote her a note back.  I felt bad for snapping at her, but at the same time I felt like she was being extremely rude by refusing to stop speaking, even when I made it painfully clear that I was on the phone and unable to pay her the attention she needed.
> 
> Even if you don't have ADD, it's very hard to have a conversation with two people at once when neither person you are speaking to can hear the other.




I know the feeling... I get annoyed when customers visit me in person anyway, if I am on the phone or not. I usually know the answer, but trying to explain how to change settings or fix their problem is an exercise in futility. It is easier to tell them to call.


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## Nellisir (Sep 26, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> yeah, but how many people actually like to have more than one conversation going on at once?    i figure most people don't have the capacity to follow two conversations at the same time.




True, but my wife has no problem talking on the phone and watching tv, with the volume up, at the same time. It drives me insane, though (which, now that I think about it, might be why she does it...  ).


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## Merkuri (Sep 26, 2006)

ssampier said:
			
		

> I get annoyed when customers visit me in person anyway, if I am on the phone or not.




It was actually a coworker.  She was trying to test a bug I'd reported in the software and needed to ask a question.  She'd been told it was a very important bug... apparently "important" means she can sit there and try to talk to me repeatedly while I was obviously helping a customer on the phone.  I think my answer to her question was, "I wrote that in the bug report!" which frustrated me even more.  I honestly don't remember what the question was, but I knew she had all the pieces of the answer she needed, she just hadn't burned enough brain cells to put them together.

I remember reading that people who multitask usually get less done because of a thing called "context switching".  It takes your brain a while to switch to a different project.  This isn't something unique to ADD sufferers, though they may be hit harder by it.  

Imagine that your brain is an office.  What you're working on at the moment is represented by a bunch of papers lying on your desk.  Other things in your memory are stashed away in filing cabinets.  When you switch from one project to another, you gather up all of the papers on your desk, file them away, and search through the filing cabinets for the new project, which you then put on your desk.  To switch back to the first project, you have to do the same thing again.  The act of clearing off your desk and searching through the files is called "context switching".  This can take a while to do, and if you context switch often enough you can lose serious time working compared to if you had worked on one project to completion, then pulled out another one.

And some people don't have a problem talking on the phone while someone is speaking to them.  They probably will not be able to have two conversations at once, but they will be able to drown out one person and concentrate on the other.  I find it hard to speak when the TV is on.  No matter how hard I try, sometimes I find my attention slipping away from the conversation to the TV.  This is something that very well may be ADD-related.  If you are too easily distracted you won't be able to follow any of the conversations going on around you, where most people would be able to ignore all but one of them.


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## BOZ (Sep 27, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> True, but my wife has no problem talking on the phone and watching tv, with the volume up, at the same time. It drives me insane, though (which, now that I think about it, might be why she does it...  ).




that might also be a female thing.


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 27, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> True, but my wife has no problem talking on the phone and watching tv, with the volume up, at the same time. It drives me insane, though (which, now that I think about it, might be why she does it...  ).




Depends, how much insurance do you have?


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## Merkuri (Sep 27, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> that might also be a female thing.




*rolls eyes* 

For the record, I'm female.


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## Nellisir (Sep 27, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> *rolls eyes*
> 
> For the record, I'm female.




Which would make "foot-in-mouth" a male thing.


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## Ferret (Sep 27, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> yeah, but how many people actually like to have more than one conversation going on at once?    i figure most people don't have the capacity to follow two conversations at the same time.



Whilst its not the same thing I can have a conversation and write at the same, or listen to someone and write something different.


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## BOZ (Sep 27, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> *rolls eyes*
> 
> For the record, I'm female.




well, i don't do it, so i was grasping at straws.    my wife will talk on the phone and watch TV, so who knows...


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## BOZ (Sep 27, 2006)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Which would make "foot-in-mouth" a male thing.




we invented that.


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## ssampier (Sep 29, 2006)

Ferret said:
			
		

> Whilst its no t the same thing I can have a convErsation and write at the same, or listen to someone and write something different.




In my job I have to do these things. It can be frustrating when the customer told me the information and I have to remember it long enough to write it.


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## ssampier (Sep 29, 2006)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> ...
> I remember reading that people who multitask usually get less done because of a thing called "context switching".  It takes your brain a while to switch to a different project.  This isn't something unique to ADD sufferers, though they may be hit harder by it.




Not to be harsh, but that sounds like my mom. She's usually doing about 5 different things at once. I often how many of those things she's _really_ concentrating on.


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## BOZ (Sep 29, 2006)

here's another good example of the automatic music-association my brain does.  we actually had a customer whose first name was "Sharona" today.  i shouldn't have to tell you what song came into my head before i realized it.


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## Ferret (Sep 30, 2006)

Before my time BOZ, Before my time


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## ssampier (Sep 30, 2006)

BOZ said:
			
		

> here's another good example of the automatic music-association my brain does.  we actually had a customer whose first name was "Sharona" today.  i shouldn't have to tell you what song came into my head before i realized it.




Ma ma ma my Sharona

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Sharona


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## MavrickWeirdo (Sep 30, 2006)

ssampier said:
			
		

> Ma ma ma my Sharona
> 
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/My_Sharona




A thread about ADD seems to have gotten off track. What were the odds?


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## BOZ (Oct 1, 2006)

purple, test, flake, dog, ramp!  

wait, what was going on again?


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## Aurora (Oct 1, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> In truth, I've never been bored in my life, as my imagination is like an unpredictable movie running 24/7 keeping me constantly amused.




Glad to know I am not the only one.


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## BOZ (Oct 2, 2006)

seems to be the opposite for me - boredom comes all too easily.  in fact, staving off boredom is often a challenge.


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