# ENWorld Fantasy Basketball IS HERE!!! (league now filled)



## The Sigil (Sep 8, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> By the way, I forgot to mention it is 100% free, and does not involve gambling in any way. It's just an online game essentially.




PLEASE NOTE:

1.) We will conduct a "messageboard/offline draft" where you make your picks one at a time on the ENWorld messageboards instead of ranking players and having Yahoo do an "autodraft." This will give you greater control over your initial roster.  We will run as many rounds as we can get through before October 27th.  *CHANGE:* Since Yahoo has no provisions for a partial draft, if we're not done by October 27th, I will ask you to post your player rankings to the thread (I'll go first in doing this BTW, as a gesture of goodwill) for the remainder of the draft.  I will then manually do an "autodraft" based on those rankings the rest of the way on October 28th; any team without a list submitted will use Yahoo's default list.  Again, hopefully this won't be needed.

2.) AWOL owners will have their lineups filled in case of injury or simply leaving a spot open for a week. This will be done in an arbitrary manner, by using Yahoo's "last month" ranking to fill slots and putting together the combination that puts the ten highest-rated players possible into the empty slots.

3.) The trade deadline will be moved from the default of "the day of the NBA trading deadline" to *CHANGE *March 3rd (the earliest option Yahoo allows after the Feb. 24th NBA deadline).

=====================================
CURRENT OWNERS LIST (Team name in parenthesis):
1 - The Sigil (Skyhawks)
2 - LeapingShark (Gelatinous Cubes)
3 - fujaiwei (Okamis)
4 - Kajamba Lion (Wampanoag Lions)
5 - Krug (Dwarven Stormhammers)
6 - Mistwell (Mistwell's Maulers)
7 - JohnSemlak (The Frost Mages)
8 - Brother Shatterstone (BS's Flagrant Fouls)
9 - Black Omega (Tokyo Samurai)
10 - John Crichton (JC/DC)
11 - reuterje (Chief Sleep)
12 - croationsensation77 (Red Star)

*Please e-mail me at the_sigil - at - hotmail.com so I have your e-mail contact info and can keep you in the loop on the draft, everyone*
=====================================

Here are the league settings:

League ID# 3426
Name: ENWorld 
*Password: rpgs*
Draft Type: Offline Draft  
Max Teams: 12 
Scoring Type: Rotisserie  
Max Moves: No maximum  
Max Trades: No maximum  
Trade Reject Time: 2  
Trade End Date: March 3, 2005  
Waiver Time: 2 days  
Can't Cut List Provider: Yahoo! Sports  
Trade Review: League Votes  
Max Games Played: 82  
Start Scoring on: Tuesday, Nov 2  
Weekly Deadline: Daily - Tomorrow  
Roster Positions: PG, SG, G, SF, PF, F, C, C, Util, Util, BN, BN, BN, DL  
Stat Categories: FG%, FT%, 3PTM, PTS, REB, AST, ST, BLK, TO  

Also, thanks to Krug for allowing me to do the commissioner "thang" this year. 

Finally, for reference, here's last year's thread:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=60587

--The Sigil


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## The Sigil (Sep 10, 2004)

/me casts "Raise Thread"

Nobody's interested? 

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Sep 20, 2004)

I'm there!

The pre-draft is a great idea.  

The AWOL auto-lineup is a good idea.  Though I think we should come up with a specific set of guidelines that you'll be following in selecting alternate starters from the roster (and/or free agency if that became necessary) to reduce the amount of subjectiv-ism(-ity?).

For the categories and ratings and such, I prefer to stay as close to default as possible.  Not only because the Yahoo suggested rankings are based on the default (though with arguable foibles :\  ), as well as the little management articles and tips that show up on Yahoo all during the season which are based on the default, but also because the default ratings are used by tens of thousands of other Yahoo players, which allows a common basis for comparison and conversation (should one be interested in that).  I played in another public Yahoo game as well as the EN one (Longshots  heh), and it was alot of fun to compare my two teams, and to compare the state of the two leagues, since both had identical rules, and similar free agent markets, etc.  For the same reasons I prefer the default 12 team league too.  

The change in the trade deadline is an interesting idea.  It's hard to predict what all the repercussions might be. The one thing I worry about  is that it seems to put even greater emphasis on being "active" as a manager on that bonus day.  I would hate to be busy with RL.  

In any case, I would still go along with the new changes if everybody else liked them.  

I'm sure it will be alot of fun either way.


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## The Sigil (Sep 20, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> I'm there!
> 
> The pre-draft is a great idea.



Thanks.  Hopefully we can "Talk this up" and get some more people in here over the next 10 days.


> The AWOL auto-lineup is a good idea.  Though I think we should come up with a specific set of guidelines that you'll be following in selecting alternate starters from the roster (and/or free agency if that became necessary) to reduce the amount of subjectiv-ism(-ity?).



Well, here's what I had in mind... for alternate starters, I would simply pick the combination that put the "best ten players possible" on the floor based on Yahoo's rankings for the current season (or the last month, if we can't see that).  The only reason I qualify the "ten best players possible" is that it may be impossible to put the top 10 players on due to player positions; e.g., a team with 5 of their top ten players as PGs would be unable to field their top 10 because there are only 4 spots where PGs can play (PG, G, Util, Util); in that case, the 4 top PGs would play and the "11th best" man would be moved into the lineup in lieu of PG number 5.  Does that make sense? I think that's the least subjective way to do it.  I might have to shuffle a roster a bit (e.g., moving a FC from the PF slot to the C slot in order to put the 10 ten players on the floor), but I think that's the best way to do it.

As far as bolstering the roster from Free Agency (if need be), I think the best way to do that is to select the "highest ranked player over the last month" to fill a hole, using similar criteria to the above; I pick the highest-ranked player that can actually get shoehorned into the lineupwith the team's other "top 9 players" and drop the lowest-rated player from the roster (if the team has only one active player that can play at C, I wouldn't try to pick up a SG, for instance; though if the team can move a FC from the F spot to fill the hole at C and then a GF from the SG spot to the now-empty F spot, and the best player available is a SG, I *would* pick the SG since there is a way to get him into the lineup).



> For the categories and ratings and such, I prefer to stay as close to default as possible.  Not only because the Yahoo suggested rankings are based on the default (though with arguable foibles :\  ), as well as the little management articles and tips that show up on Yahoo all during the season which are based on the default, but also because the default ratings are used by tens of thousands of other Yahoo players, which allows a common basis for comparison and conversation (should one be interested in that).  I played in another public Yahoo game as well as the EN one (Longshots  heh), and it was alot of fun to compare my two teams, and to compare the state of the two leagues, since both had identical rules, and similar free agent markets, etc.  For the same reasons I prefer the default 12 team league too.



Fair enough on both fronts.  The amount of interest this has (not) drawn tells me that I may have trouble so much as filling 12 teams. 



> The change in the trade deadline is an interesting idea.  It's hard to predict what all the repercussions might be. The one thing I worry about  is that it seems to put even greater emphasis on being "active" as a manager on that bonus day.  I would hate to be busy with RL.



Would you prefer an extra three days (on the theory that nobody will be busy for all three days) or no extra days (you have to make your trades before the NBA trade deadline comes and goes)?  I myself lean toward 3 extra days - I think it's important to let people react to what actually happens rather than have some teams get shafted/rewarded for "guessing right" about a trade... here I'm thinking of someone like Antoine Walker getting traded right at the deadline and going from primary offensive option to 6th man or vice versa for a similar situation - the team that "guesses right" as to if and where he's traded gets a huge bonus (or penalty); though most trades won't be as drastic, I think it's important to give people a little time to react to a major change in a player's role... I know I would appreciate it if I *wasn't* the commish.



> In any case, I would still go along with the new changes if everybody else liked them.
> 
> I'm sure it will be alot of fun either way.



I sure hope so. 

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Sep 21, 2004)

The selection method for the awol players makes sense, but the part that I was worried about is when the yahoo rankings are misleading.  For example if there's an injury to a player and he's been out for weeks, he may still have a great ranking, but putting him in the lineup over healthy players (of lesser ranking) wouldn't be at all competitive (though admittedly, any attempt to select any players at all, rather than having a "zero management" situation, is an improvement, so I still like the basic idea).  In some of these injury cases it may be obvious if the player (er, basketball player) is out for the remainder of the season, so his ranking could be discarded.  But in other cases the distiction becomes grayer. You may have to consider the "last month" thing with the active lineup too, but even that can be misleading.  Eventually the whole decision-making process approaches the same kinds of decisions that we'll all be making with our own teams. 

Ya, I like the 3 day trade extension.  It would give everybody a little breathing room to consider the repercussions of the nba trades, so we could make appropriate adjustments.

Anyhoo, I think that the interest in our fantasy league will probably (hopefully) pick up when training camps start.  Especially when everybody starts seeing player interviews on the nightly sportscasts and such.

I just realized that the depth of the productive players available throughout the year should see a slight bump this year, since having an extra team in the nba will introduce about 7500 more pts, 3500 rebounds, and other miscellaneous stats to the nba totals, and thus potentially more towards our own totals.

I'm also really eager to see the new-look Lakers.  Kobe and Odom will likely be great, and I'm wondering how the horde of new players will mesh with them.  It's like a totally different team now.


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## fujaiwei (Sep 21, 2004)

I'm in if you guys have room. I played the year before last, and I'm playing yahoo fantasy football now, so I'm a bit familiar with the rules - I 'll admit I haven't read your post completely (man it's long) and I don't have too many complaints about yahoo currently. That said, I love b-ball and it looks like you've created a well-thought out process for drafting, so I'm in if you've got room.


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## LeapingShark (Sep 21, 2004)

Welcome aboard!  

Last year was alot of fun.  The race was very competitive, in fact it went down to the last day.  Plus we had lots of conversations and basketball chatter all year long; trash-talking, laughter, debates, pretty much everything. It was a blast!   

(Ya Sig's posts are always really long, and he'll probably make the next one *extra special* for us, just for picking on him again.        )


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## The Sigil (Sep 21, 2004)

Hey, look under my name... "Mr. 3000" ... word posts, that is... LOL.

REALLY SHORT VERSION:
We will use the Yahoo defaults with the following exceptions:

1.) We will conduct a "messageboard draft" where you make your picks one at a time on the ENWorld messageboards instead of ranking players and having Yahoo do an "autodraft."  We will run as many rounds as we can get through before October 27th; if we haven't filled our rosters by then, I will input the draft picks that were made, and let Yahoo "autodraft" the rest.

2.) AWOL owners will have their lineups filled in case of injury or simply leaving a spot open for a week.  This will be done in an arbitrary manner, by using Yahoo's "last month" ranking to fill slots and putting together the combination that puts the ten highest-rated players possible into the empty slots.

3.) The trade deadline will be moved from the default of "the day of the NBA trading deadline" to three days later.

There, that's the short version. 

--The Sigil


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 21, 2004)

I'm game.    I'll be good this year, too.  

Nick


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## The Sigil (Sep 21, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> I just realized that the depth of the productive players available throughout the year should see a slight bump this year, since having an extra team in the nba will introduce about 7500 more pts, 3500 rebounds, and other miscellaneous stats to the nba totals, and thus potentially more towards our own totals.
> 
> I'm also really eager to see the new-look Lakers.  Kobe and Odom will likely be great, and I'm wondering how the horde of new players will mesh with them.  It's like a totally different team now.



Very true about more minutes available league-wide == more stats.  This should be especially helpful at the Center position, where getting stats is always a tricky proposition (for one stretch last year, I was using Slava freakin' Medvedenko as a Center... of course, that was the week-and-a-half that he poured in 20 ppg, so I guessed right that his production would skyrocket with no Malone and no Shaq).

I am especially curious to see what the Lakers will do... I think the "re-shuffling" around the league of star players makes for some interesting guesswork - will Kobe's stats go up or down now that he doesn't have Shaq with him?  Will McGrady and Yao get along, or will McGrady's production take a dive a la Steve Francis last season?  Et cetera, et cetera.  There's no shortage of questions and I think the owner that projects correctly how all the player movement will affect players will be the one with the inside track to the league crown.

Now all I need to do is figure out how NOT to lose the league crown in the final week this season... lost the title last year on a handful of steals. 

--The Sigil


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## Krug (Sep 21, 2004)

I'm game as well..


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## Mistwell (Sep 22, 2004)

Count the Mistwell Maulers in as well.

I'm not too keen on the individual draft idea, but would happily go along with the crowd if that is the sentiment.

The awol users idea is a good one.


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## fujaiwei (Sep 22, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Hey, look under my name... "Mr. 3000" ... word posts, that is... LOL.
> 
> REALLY SHORT VERSION:
> We will use the Yahoo defaults with the following exceptions:
> ...




Great, I'm on the list!

BTW, Thanks, I like it when people use little words.


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## The Sigil (Sep 23, 2004)

Well, we're halfway home (6 owners) and there's still a little over a week until Yahoo opens its virtual doors... hopefully we can get another half dozen people "recruited" before then.

Oh, as far as determining the draft order goes, if Yahoo will do it automatically, I'll do it that way; if not, I will use the Opengaming.org Die Roller utility to assign the order if that's okay with everyone.  We'll sort teams alphabetically by owner name and use the die roller to roll a die with results e-mailed to all interested parties; whoever the "die roll" picks would get the first pick.  Then I take out the winner of the #1 overall pick, and roll again... that person (alphabetically) gets the second pick, and so on.  So with 12 owners, I'd roll a d12 among the owners, then a d11 among everyone who didn't get the #1 pick, then a d10 among everyone who didn't have the #1 or #2 pick, etc.

Hopefully Yahoo will have a lottery, though... it would make my life much simpler. 

--The Sigil


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## Mistwell (Sep 23, 2004)

I just wanted to make my pitch for NOT drafting individually, but instead going with Yahoo's draft.

I know one complaint about the Yahoo draft centered around how Yahoo ranked people.  Well, I don't see that as a particularly valid contention.  If you don't like how Yahoo ranks people, you rank them yourself.  If you do like how Yahoo ranks people, that won't likely change for the individual draft system proposed, as you can just use Yahoo's suggestions.  So drafting individually doesn't alter in any way the Yahoo ranking issue.

The other issue is that you can end up with too many of one position, and not enough of another position.  That's true.  And yet, that is what causes people to do a lot of trades early on.  

EARLY TRADES ARE GOOD

Early trades are one of the key motivators for people to become familiar with each other early in the season, to engage in public discussions, to really analyze their teams weakenesses and strengths, and to generally get into the mood of the game.  

Without the motivation for those early trades, I think the game will not be as fun.  With the early trades being the primary motivator to get into the game itself, I think the impact of reducing the number of those early trades will harm the entire game throughout the season, as fewer people will feel connected to playing and connected to their fellow players.

THE NEW SYSTEM IS A PAIN IN THE BUTT

Finally, I think the individual draft will be a serious pain in the butt.  It will require everyone to pay attention to this thread every day, before basketball season (which is, for me, pretty hard at the moment - but won't be hard once the season starts).  We will have to quickly research all the remaining players, every time we make a choice.  If anyone delays, it delays everyone else.  And, as stated, if it is not done on schedule, it will cause Yahoo do to it anyone...and it is unclear how well Yahoo can do a PARTIAL draft, instead of a full draft.  This system could end up as a mess, and act as a bad first impression for new players.


So, I'd like to keep the draft the way we have always done it, through Yahoo's built-in system.  If we don't go that route, I won't pout and will go along with the crowd.  But I think it will hurt the game, and be a pain in the butt.


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## The Sigil (Sep 24, 2004)

If it'll help, Mistwell, I'll just shoot you an email or PM whenever your turn comes up in the draft; then you don't have to check all the time. 

I've done both ways and I really do prefer the "semi-live" messageboard draft... because you can react to trends and (even better) because there's nothing quite like hearing a "GOSH DANG IT!" from the poor sucker drafting after you when you take "his guy." 

Please at least give it a try; if it bombs, well, we certainly won't use it next season.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Sep 24, 2004)

Either way is fine with me.

What about Yahoo's built-in live draft?  That way all the organization is done for us.  When somebody isn't able to file a pick within their time window, Yahoo selects the best player for you. Right?  Do they let each league select their own draft speed? (a wider pick window to make it easier on tight schedules)


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## The Sigil (Sep 24, 2004)

I don't know about Yahoo's Livedraft, but my sense is that it pretty much requires everyone to be logged in simultaneously.  Coordinating 12 peoples' schedules to do that is darn near impossible, thus I think a messageboard draft is a nice way to it.

The "best" way is always to get together and do a "live draft" in person (an excuse to party) but obviously, that's impractical; a live internet draft would be next best, but I think that it's too hard to get everyone in at the same time with widely varying time zones.  Messageboards are IMO the next best thing; not quite as fast or fun, but still keeps everyone involved.

Also, we could stand to do a little recruiting; if everyone can get one other person involved over the next week, we'll be all set and ready to start right when the Yahoo season opens. You don't "have to" do so, but if there's anyone you think might be interested, now would be a good time to bug 'em.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Sep 24, 2004)

Another thought to toss on the table for review.  What about making trades during the draft?  And how about trading your draft spots before or during the draft?  Not sure if I'd want to do this though (just brainstorming here).


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## The Sigil (Sep 24, 2004)

Trading picks during the draft could be a bit dodgy - while Yahoo doesn't support it, it's not too hard to simply change who drafts whom when I manually enter stuff.  However, I would say that it would have to be a 1-for-1 or 2-for-2 trade to be done during the draft; doing otherwise just doesn't work when I go to enter the draft picks.  If you want to do 2-for-1 or 3-for-2 trades, you'd have to wait until the draft was finished and then do it through Yahoo with the other owner.


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## Citizen Mane (Sep 24, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> I don't know about Yahoo's Livedraft, but my sense is that it pretty much requires everyone to be logged in simultaneously.  Coordinating 12 peoples' schedules to do that is darn near impossible, thus I think a messageboard draft is a nice way to it.




Actually, their livedraft will autodraft for absentee league members based on their pre-rankings or your own.  It's hard to pick a time everyone can be there, but that's what the pre-rankings are for.

Nick


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## Mistwell (Sep 27, 2004)

I really think being stuck in the off-topic forum is killig us.  More people would sign up if they knew about it, but this new format prevents people from even knowing about it.


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## LeapingShark (Sep 27, 2004)

Perhaps there's a way to sneak in an ad/recruitment thread over in the general section without breaking any rules.  

[begin brainstorm mode]

Perhaps a thread about a basketball roleplaying game......

*d20 Basketball*

Body subraces

* Behemoth - (massive body structure, extra tall, extra heavy)
* Beanpole - (tall but dangerously skinnny), 
* Brickhouse - (amazingly wide shoulders, stocky legs, thick forearms, intimidating features)
* Sculpted - (heavily muscled, well-proportioned, low body fat)
* Gnat - (tiny body structure, very short, thin)
* Marshmellow - (huge stomach, weight problem)
* Typical - (no unusual features)

Classes

* Guard
* Forward
* Center

Prestige Classes

* All-Star

Feats

* Floor Leader
* No Look Pass
* Ball Thief
* Long Range Bomb
* Scary Thug
* Thunderous Dunk
* Windmill Jam
* No Easy Baskets


Skills

* Rebound (Str)
* Block (Str)
* Dunk (Str)
* Shoot (Dex)
* Defend (Con)
* Pass (Int)
* Steal (Wis)
* Trashtalk (Cha)

Sample Characters

Shaquille O'Neal
Body subrace: Behemoth
Center 10th lvl, All-Star 10th lvl
Feats:  Thunderous Dunk, No Easy Baskets

Peja Stojakovic
Body subrace:  Typical 
Forward 5th lvl, All-Star 5th lvl
Feats: Long Range Bomb

Shawn Bradley
Body subrace: Beanpole 
Center 6th lvl
Feats: No Easy Baskets

Jason Kidd
Body subrace: Typical
Guard 10th lvl, All-Star 8th lvl
Feats: No Look Pass, Floor Leader


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## The Sigil (Sep 27, 2004)

I did put it into the "main" thread originally, for that very reason, but it was (quickly) moved here.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Sep 27, 2004)

Golden opportunity?


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## LeapingShark (Sep 30, 2004)

BTW the settings only allow these 6 options for the trade deadline--
None; February 17; February 24; March 3; March 10; March 17


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## johnsemlak (Sep 30, 2004)

Can I sign up?


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## The Sigil (Sep 30, 2004)

I saw that in the settings; they're a bit more restrictive than last year. 

Anyhoo, since there was a lot of support for putting our trade deadline after the NBA trade deadline, I moved it to March 3rd (first available date after the NBA deadline of Feb 24th)

Anyway, the league has been setup (yay!) and you're all invited to sign up.  I will be sending PMs with league password and other relevant info where I can over the next few minutes; if you haven't received one in the next half-hour, e-mail me at the_sigil - at - hotmail.com (please include your ENWorld username) and I'll send you the info.  Once everyone who has already expressed an interest has had time to sign up - like, say, Monday, I'll throw the info onto this thread for anyone else who wants to join... first-come, first-served.

Oh, and if it comes up as an option, please remember to select the option that allows the commissioner to change your lineups... I promise I won't use it unless you're AWOL for an extended period of time and your lineup has holes in it... and a general announcement will be made the day prior so all owners - including you - will know it's coming.  I know YOU won't go AWOL, but please humor me.  You never know when a hurricane might knock out your power for weeks.

--The Sigil


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## The Sigil (Sep 30, 2004)

LeapingShark and fujaiwei - I need to get you guys the sign-in info - you can't get PMs and I don't have e-mail addresses, so please e-mail me at the_sigil - at - hotmail.com ASAP to get your info. 

johnsemlak, Krug, Mistwell, and Kajamba Lion... the info should be in you PM boxes.

--The Sigil


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## Krug (Sep 30, 2004)

Ok Sigil will get to it this weekend.


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## LeapingShark (Sep 30, 2004)

The nba trade deadline is Feb 17.  Isn't a March 3 extension a bit long??


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## The Sigil (Sep 30, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> The nba trade deadline is Feb 17.  Isn't a March 3 extension a bit long??



According to http://www.nba.com/schedules/key_dates.html the trade deadline is Feb. 24th.  Feb 18-20 is the allstar game, Feb 24 comes a couple of days later.

As I mentioned, the next date after the trade deadline that Yahoo allowed was March 3rd (one week later), so that is the date I chose.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Sep 30, 2004)

Hmm, okay groovy!

So all we need now, is 5 more players!  C'mon hoops fans!


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## LeapingShark (Sep 30, 2004)

What's the "Can't Cut List" (who are the players on the list??).   Usually they have something like that to prevent somebody from giving up the game and dropping all their good players to spoil the fun.  Do we even need something like that if we've got an active commissioner that can alter rosters?  What happens if a "Can't Cut Listed" player on your roster becomes injured for the season and you can't use him?


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## The Sigil (Sep 30, 2004)

Per the Yahoo site:



> "A number of the best players in the game will be on this list throughout the season. When a player is on the list, he cannot be waived from a team under any circumstances. The "Can't Cut" list, *which will be updated when necessary*, will prevent managers at the bottom of the standings from changing the league dynamics by waiving all of their outstanding players. "



Thus in theory, if a player becomes injured as you describe, Yahoo should update their list and you should be able to cut him.

And if that doesn't reassure you, I note in the commissioner's toolbox that 







> "Some settings can only be changed pre-draft (Max Teams, Trade Reviewer, Unowned Players, Roster Changes), some before your first league game (Scoring Type, League Start Date), with the rest available all season long.




Note that "Can't Cut List" is not specifically mentioned in the lists above, so I will have access to it (and the ability to change it) all season long.  If it becomes a problem, I can change the setting to allow you to release a player, though I'll probably ask for all owners' input first.

--The Sigil


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 1, 2004)

Actually, the Can't Cut List probably can't be changed by the commissioner -- it couldn't in the Yahoo! baseball league that I was in -- we had a guy leave the league, so I dropped his players to waivers.  I could drop every single guy except Carlos Beltran, who was on the Can't Cut List, which I couldn't change.

Nick


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## The Sigil (Oct 1, 2004)

I can't change what's on the list itself, but I *can* change the can't cut list from "provided by Yahoo" to "none," if I'm not mistaken.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 1, 2004)

If yahoo updates their list after major injuries (and does so within a reasonable amount of response time), then we should be okay.

I like the new interface improvements this year.   They have lots of new options for examinig player stats; including last years stats, splits by home/away/day/night, and all that kind of thing.  Very cool.  

There's also some kind of a new "watch" thing where you can click FAs or even players on other teams, and stick them into a seperate stat chart, then analyze and compare them with all the new sorting options.  Neato! This should help comparing trades and stuff.


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## The Sigil (Oct 1, 2004)

Three questions, two on-topic and the other off-topic (slightly).

1.) I haven't received an email from fujaiwei yet, and I don't think Mistwell has signed up yet (since I didn't see "Mistwell's Maulers")... and we really haven't gotten any other nibbles on this thread.  When should I throw the login info up here?  I'm thinking Tuesday-ish.

2.) Because we really haven't gotten any other nibbles, and this thread is now a month old, would anyone mind if I did some recruiting from some other online areas starting when I release the league login/pass info on this thread?  I have one resource I'm pretty sure I can fill the league almost instantly from... which leads me to my slightly off-topic question...

3.) Anyone interested in a fictional simulation basketball league?  I run one, and we have a couple of "ownership" openings - we go year-round at a rate of about 4-5 seasons in one "real time" year (the league is now in its 18th(!) season).  If you think this might be you, check out http://www.ijbl.net and drop me an e-mail (my handle there is "WigNosy" - very long story).  It's from the group of guys here that I think I should be able to recruit as many basketball junkies as we need to fill our ranks in the Yahoo league... and the sooner we fill our ranks, the sooner we can start our pre-draft. 

Thoughts, guys?


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 1, 2004)

I wouldn’t mind joining...  I'll be honest though, I suck when it comes to basketball though...

Does John Stockton still play...?


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## The Sigil (Oct 1, 2004)

Cool with me... sent you a PM with the login info you'll need, Brother Shatterstone.

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 1, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Cool with me... sent you a PM with the login info you'll need, Brother Shatterstone.




Sweet, I've joined. 

and I noticed I'm tied for first place...  I have a feeling that won't last long.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 2, 2004)

I predict you'll be tied for first for at least another month.


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 2, 2004)

I was hoping to get some more Enworlders.  If we get outsiders, I hope it's a least D&D gamers so we can keep with the theme.  I was waiting to see who else would join from here, but I'm sure I can also gather a gamer or two from elsewhere if we need it.


----------



## fujaiwei (Oct 3, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> LeapingShark and fujaiwei - I need to get you guys the sign-in info - you can't get PMs and I don't have e-mail addresses, so please e-mail me at the_sigil - at - hotmail.com ASAP to get your info.
> 
> johnsemlak, Krug, Mistwell, and Kajamba Lion... the info should be in you PM boxes.
> 
> --The Sigil




OK, emailed you. Sorry for the delay.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 3, 2004)

Four Spots remain?  Sign me up.  Time for the Tokyo Samurai to defend their title and shoot for the repeat.  All I need is alot of luck and a good final day.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 3, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> I predict you'll be tied for first for at least another month.



Yeah probably true but if theirs a way to blow a lead in fantasy basketball I figure I can do it!


----------



## Mistwell (Oct 3, 2004)

In prior years we have PM'ed anyone who was interested from long ago.

I think this thread started with a link to last years thread...which started with a link to the thread from the year before, and a mention of the players from the year before.

With that database of prior players, we should be able to get the remaining 4 players.

Here is an old list I had from prior games...I'm sure most of you are in that list already, but I think there are several who have not been PM'ed yet:


Johnsemlak
Krug
Alsih2o
Garyh
Hopping Vampire
The Sigil
Draxus the Tainted
Jhallum
El Ravager
Black Omega
Dagger
Doppleganger
Kajamba lion
Es2
Brother Shatterstone
The Sigil
Greyshadow
Reapersaurus
John Crichton
Nebin


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## Black Omega (Oct 4, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> In prior years we have PM'ed anyone who was interested from long ago.
> 
> With that database of prior players, we should be able to get the remaining 4 players.




Hello, I'm here.  You don't need four now, you need three.  Just tell me where to sign up.  You can also send me an email at chojin@sbcglobal.net.


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 4, 2004)

Hello champ!  I'll go ahead and email you the info myself (I'm pretty sure Sigil is close to posting it publicly anyway)


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 4, 2004)

Oh that reminds me.  Sigil, you sent that message to select the option to allow the commish to alter rosters if the user goes AWOL.  But I didn't not see any such option (I even re-registered just to make sure I hadn't missed it), so I've assumed that it was automatically included for everybody.  Did anybody else see such an option?


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 4, 2004)

I didni't see that option, but aside from that, I'm now signed up.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 4, 2004)

Not sure where/if they have the option, haven't dug through everything yet.

Also, welcome back, Black Omega... my archnemesis.   I tried PMing you when the thread got going, but got the message that you weren't taking PMs.

Fujaiwei, I've sent you the login info.  Once I see you signed up, I'll post it publicly on this thread.  And I think Mistwell's "roster" of former ENWorld players will help... I'll PM as many of them as can/will receive them, and let them know that the login info is in this thread... first come, first served... whichever three people get signed up first are in.

--The Sigil


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 4, 2004)

Okay, I've posted the password to the "general public" now that fujaiwei is in.  It's in the first post.  I'll be PMing those I can off Mistwell's list.

One other note... it doesn't look like Yahoo has a feature to randomly generate the draft order, so we'll have to do it "manually" once we get 12 people.  Here's how it will be done... I will use the Openroleplaying.org dieroller ( http://www.openroleplaying.org/tools/dieroller/index.cgi ) to generate the results.  We'll simply assign numbers based on alphabetical order of teams, ignoring the words "the" or "a" in the team name (hence, "The Frost Mages" are alphabetized as though they begin with "F").

I will use the die roller to roll 1d12, and e-mail the results to all participants.  The team name that is that number in alphabetical order will have the first overall pick in the first round and will be "taken out" of the pool (i.e., if the number is "5" then the 5th team in alphabetical order will get the pick).  I will then use the die roller to roll 1d11, with all the remaining teams alphabetized; that team gets the second pick and is take out of the pool.  I'll then roll 1d10; that team gets the third pick.  Then 1d9 for the fourth pick, and so on, until we roll 1d2 for the eleventh pick, and the team that doesn't get the 11th pick (obviously) will get the 12th pick.

Since this is a snake draft, the draft order will be reversed each round; thus, team that gets the last pick of the first round will get the first pick of the second round and vice versa.

TRADING: Because Yahoo allows me to directly input the teams' picks, you *will* be allowed to make trades of any stripe you wish during the messageboard pre-draft, including 2-for-1 or 3-for-1 trades.  As soon as I can after the league gets filled, I will run the "lottery" as described above to create the draft order, and we can get started as soon as that order is determined.  I think it would be best to create a separate thread in Meta for this (and only this), with no editing of posts allowed to avoid arguments... except for the first post, of course, which hold a list of the players picked by each team (IOW, it's not an "I draft so-and-so" post) so everyone can keep track.

Hopefully we'll get this filled shortly and we can get started on building our teams. 

--The Sigil


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 4, 2004)

Wow.  Only three people from Mistwell's list (that were not already signed up) could accept Private Messages.  Everyone else couldn't/wouldn't.  I guess we'll see if all three want in. 

--The Sigil


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 4, 2004)

I'm in.

After the drubbing I took last year after taking first for a few days I'm looking for payback.  Or at least a noble showing.    As the guy who got the trade-ball rolling last year I expect another flurry to start the season.  Boo-ya.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 4, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Wow.  Only three people from Mistwell's list (that were not already signed up) could accept Private Messages.  Everyone else couldn't/wouldn't.  I guess we'll see if all three want in.
> 
> --The Sigil




Couldn't would be my guess.  Evidently that's the message it gives on PM's if you are not currently a community member.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 4, 2004)

I'm guessing "couldn't" as well.  Just two spots left... hope they fill soon so we can get this puppy started.

/me hops excitedly up and down in anticipation

--The Sigil


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 4, 2004)

Did you check to see if any of the former players had email showing; email linkage doesn't require a community supporter account.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 4, 2004)

I didn't, but then, I rarely see e-mail linkage any more and didn't have time this morning... anyone who wants to "volunteer" to do so will get multiple brownie points in my book. 

--The Sigil


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 5, 2004)

Hmm... no more nibbles, apparently.  Would it bother anyone at this point if I invited a couple of friends to join our Fantasy Basketball club?  We need to get the draft started sooner rather than later, I think.

--The Sigil


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 5, 2004)

I'd be awfully tempted to just post on the main discussion board and let the topic be moved back here.  Alot more people would notice it.  But I have no objections.


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 5, 2004)

Chief Sleep reuterje is onboard  (Don't know who that is).

Now only 1 spot left!!!

I don't mind if you bring along a friend Sig, go right ahead!  Though I also don't think we should have a problem finding one measley person here, could we??

C'mon basketball fans!  Where are you!?


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 6, 2004)

Okay, the league is filled.  Everyone say "hi" to a couple of my friends from my sim league, Jeremy (Chief Sleep) and Brian (Red Star) - they've been butting heads in both my and other sim leagues for probably upwards of 30 seasons now, so they're old rivals.  I'll be running the "lottery" to determine draft position via the die roller shortly; each of you should receive 11 e-mails (this is to make sure the lottery process is transparent; if you don't care, you can just toss the e-mails).  As a reminder, each time a team is selected, that team will be dropped from alphabetical order.  I will be starting a new thread for the "offline draft" picks to be entered in shortly, and will link it here.

ALPHABETICAL BY TEAM:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Chief Sleep
3 - Dwarven Stormhammers
4 - The Frost Mages
5 - Gelatinous Cubes
6 - JC/DC
7 - Mistwell Maulers
8 - Okamis
9 - Red Star
10 - Skyhawks
11 - Tokyo Samurai
12 - Wampanoag Lions

--The Sigil


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 6, 2004)

Okay, we have our draft order; here are the results.  I will start a thread momentarily for the picks to commence and put the link here. 

(Summary Version)

1 - Chief Sleep
2 - Red Star
3 - Tokyo Samurai
4 - Mistwell's Maulers
5 - The Frost Mages
6 - Okamis
7 - Dwarven Stormhammers
8 - Wampanoag Lions
9 - JC/DC
10 - Skyhawks
11 - Gelatinous Cubes
12 - BS's Flagrant Fouls

(remember, the order reverses each round, so the Flagrant Fouls will get the first pick of Round 2).

======================

("Blow by Blow" Version)

FIRST PICK: 1d12, got 2

Chief Sleep gets the first pick and is removed from the pool.

Pool for 2nd pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Dwarven Stormhammers
3 - The Frost Mages
4 - Gelatinous Cubes
5 - JC/DC
6 - Mistwell Maulers
7 - Okamis
8 - Red Star
9 - Skyhawks
10 - Tokyo Samurai
11 - Wampanoag Lions

SECOND ROLL: 1d11, got 8

Red Star gets the second pick and is removed from the pool.

Pool for 3rd pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Dwarven Stormhammers
3 - The Frost Mages
4 - Gelatinous Cubes
5 - JC/DC
6 - Mistwell Maulers
7 - Okamis
8 - Skyhawks
9 - Tokyo Samurai
10 - Wampanoag Lions

THIRD ROLL: 1d10, got 9

Tokyo Samurai gets the third pick and is removed from the pool.

Pool for 4th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Dwarven Stormhammers
3 - The Frost Mages
4 - Gelatinous Cubes
5 - JC/DC
6 - Mistwell Maulers
7 - Okamis
8 - Skyhawks
9 - Wampanoag Lions

FOURTH ROLL: 1d9, got 6

Mistwell's Maulers gets the fourth pick and is removed from the pool.

Pool for 5th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Dwarven Stormhammers
3 - The Frost Mages
4 - Gelatinous Cubes
5 - JC/DC
6 - Okamis
7 - Skyhawks
8 - Wampanoag Lions

FIFTH ROLL: 1d8, got 3

The Frost Mages get the fifth pick and is removed from the pool.

Pool for 6th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Dwarven Stormhammers
3 - Gelatinous Cubes
4 - JC/DC
5 - Okamis
6 - Skyhawks
7 - Wampanoag Lions

SIXTH ROLL: 1d7, got 5

Okamis get the sixth pick and are removed from the pool.

Pool for 7th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Dwarven Stormhammers
3 - Gelatinous Cubes
4 - JC/DC
5 - Skyhawks
6 - Wampanoag Lions

SEVENTH ROLL: 1d6, got 2

Dwarven Stormhammers get the seventh pick and are removed from the pool.

Pool for 8th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Gelatinous Cubes
3 - JC/DC
4 - Skyhawks
5 - Wampanoag Lions

EIGHTH ROLL: 1d5, got 5

Wampanoag Lions get the eighth pick and are removed from the pool.

Pool for 9th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Gelatinous Cubes
3 - JC/DC
4 - Skyhawks

NINTH ROLL: 1d4, got 3

JC/DC gets the ninth pick and is removed from the pool.

Pool for 10th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Gelatinous Cubes
3 - Skyhawks

TENTH ROLL: 1d3, got 3

Skyhawks get the tenth pick and are removed from the pool.

Pool for 11th pick:
1 - BS's Flagrant Fouls
2 - Gelatinous Cubes

ELEVENTH ROLL: 1d2, got 2

Gelatinous Cubes get the eleventh pick and are removed from the pool.  Because only the Flagrant Fouls are left, they get the 12th pick.


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## The Sigil (Oct 6, 2004)

The draft thread is here:

http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1793499#post1793499

Let's get the party started! 

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 6, 2004)

Wow, offline draft huh...  That's going to make this interesting but I have a feeling it’s going to get real ugly for me...   

FYI: I have the other thread subscribed too.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 6, 2004)

Well, when in doubt you can always revert to the Yahoo pre-rankings for inspiration.  It's not perfect, but it won't leave you completely naked.

I was thinking of keeping a copy of it here, and updating it with the picks as they are selected, so that everybody at least has one simple way of seeing which players are still available.


*
*
*
*
*
[list moved forward to new post]
*
*
*
*
*


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## LeapingShark (Oct 7, 2004)

*Looking to trade "trade rights" up/down?*

Draft Day Trade?   
I'd be willing to trade away my 1st round pick spot, for anybody else's 2nd & 3rd round pick spots.

EDIT: Nevermind, I'm set.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 7, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Well, when in doubt you can always revert to the Yahoo pre-rankings for inspiration.  It's not perfect, but it won't leave you completely naked.




Thanks boss, I apprcate that. 



			
				LeapingShark said:
			
		

> [Last Update - Tokyo Samurai's #3 pick overall]




Wow, I I'm rather shocked that he went with Kirilenko, I was rather hoping that would be my first round pick...   

Someone do me a favor and take Kobe, I don't want him.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 7, 2004)

Kobe's a great player, make no mistake.  But Kirilenko was my MVP last year.  Good FG%, very good FT%, better rebounding, steals, blocks than Kobe.  Can hit the three.  My team last year focused alot on overall stats, not scoring.  Kirilenko's blocks and steals probably won me the Championship on the final day.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 7, 2004)

I was actually disappointed that Misty grabbed Dirk.  I love Dirk's game and he's about the only guy who qualifies at C that WON'T destroy your FT% numbers.  Kirilenko, though... he's a monster at filling up the stat sheet... a 15-5-5-5-5 guy.

It'll be interesting to see how things shake out as the draft progresses, that's for sure.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 8, 2004)

The draft will be cutting it close; we'll need to average at least 6 picks a day in order to finish before the start of the season.   

Sig I think you should continue updating the title to show the person "at-bat"; and add a couple of "on-deck" people, in order to keep everybody "on alert" when their times are getting close (especially since it's a snake draft and the order fluctuates).  This also would be helpful during the times that the title isn't updated as fast as the pickings take place, because on-deck people may shift to bat quicker than expected.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 8, 2004)

Good ideas, Leaping Shark, but I'm hoping that the first round will be the roughest as people figure things out.  Hopefully things will run more smoothly as we continue along.

*crosses fingers*

BTW, I will be at Disneyland tomorrow, so I will not be able to alert people they are up until late in the evening... or if my pick comes up, I won't be able to make it until then.

Please keep your heads up, everyone... I don't expect you to drop your pick in 5 minutes after the guy in front of you, but the faster, the better... so please check in as often as you are able... or subscribe to the thread.

--The Sigil


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## Mistwell (Oct 8, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Good ideas, Leaping Shark, but I'm hoping that the first round will be the roughest as people figure things out.  Hopefully things will run more smoothly as we continue along.
> 
> *crosses fingers*
> 
> ...




Have fun at the Halloween haunted mansion! Which reminds me, it's time I renewed my year pass...


----------



## reapersaurus (Oct 8, 2004)

I'm pissed.

I was looking for this thread the past week, during a transfer to a new computer, and couldn't find it, since I didn't know where it would be located (don't read the boards much anymore).

Oh, well - I doubt if I have enough time to properly dedicate to improve on my first year's experience last year.

Here's to a season filled with competition and following your favorite team!


----------



## Krug (Oct 8, 2004)

I choose... Kobe!


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## LeapingShark (Oct 8, 2004)

I was wondering where reaper was; haven't seen you around this place for a while, I thought maybe you were banned or something.   

Krug: Wrong thread!


----------



## johnsemlak (Oct 8, 2004)

Can anyone offer a brief [*Idiots Guide*] primer on the best way to select players?  What are the most important stats to look at and so on?

I did this three years ago and I'm a bit rusty.  I assume looking for guys who are good at more than one stat is key.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 8, 2004)

Look for two basic types of players.  General players who contribute in several stats.  These guys go pretty fast.  Think Kobe with his 30/5/5, for example.  Also look for spike players, someone who gives you a big bonus in a specific area you want to focus on.  If blocks, look for people with high blocks.   Ratliff is good here.  As you draft along remember you have several positions to fill.  Don't take too many guards and leave yourself short on forwards.  This is just the very basics.

My personal favorite trick later on is to look for guys who have not been great in the past but who are poised for a break out year.  Last your I got Brad Miller, for example.  Decent guy, but he stepped it up a notch in Sac-town.


----------



## johnsemlak (Oct 8, 2004)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Look for two basic types of players.  General players who contribute in several stats.  These guys go pretty fast.  Think Kobe with his 30/5/5, for example.  Also look for spike players, someone who gives you a big bonus in a specific area you want to focus on.  If blocks, look for people with high blocks.   Ratliff is good here.  As you draft along remember you have several positions to fill.  Don't take too many guards and leave yourself short on forwards.  This is just the very basics.
> 
> My personal favorite trick later on is to look for guys who have not been great in the past but who are poised for a break out year.  Last your I got Brad Miller, for example.  Decent guy, but he stepped it up a notch in Sac-town.



 THanks.  The first year I played, I got lucky with Andrei Kirilenko, actually, who wasn;t that well known at the time.


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 8, 2004)

I PMed The Sigil with my pick, in case Krug confirms before I get back from work.  He can feel free to post the entirety of my PM in the other thread (with the exception of my conditional -- that is, who I'm picking if Krug changes his mind and picks up my pick).  Hope that works for y'all -- it'll keep things moving at least.

Nick


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 8, 2004)

Great!  

So now John Crichton is up.  Course, he won't really know if Kajamba just picked his pick.   

It's probably safe to assume that Krug is taking Kobe.  Maybe JC could PM Sigil with his pick for #9, along with an alternate player in case Kajamba is taking his.  

Then Sigil will be able to make the following pick before leaving for Disney, and I can pick in the afternoon, then if Shatter is around he picks 2, then I pick, and Sigil can pick in the evening when he gets home.  Badda-bing, badda-boom. C'mon speedy pickings!


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## johnsemlak (Oct 8, 2004)

I would go ahead an give Kobe Bryant to Krug.  Krug was pretty clear that was his pick; just in the wrong forum.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 8, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> C'mon speedy pickings!




I be here all day, or well till 12-1 PST, and then from 1:30 PST to when ever...  The wife works tonight and I'm pretty much free all night…  The only breaks I see coming are a game or two of NCAA Football 05. 

Same is pretty much true for the whole weekend.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 8, 2004)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> I would go ahead an give Kobe Bryant to Krug.  Krug was pretty clear that was his pick; just in the wrong forum.




I wouldn't.  I would wait it's his first round draft pick.  Besides it's Krug, he'll be around shortly.  

Also, if someone wants to trade for my second round draft pick, you better say something soon, cause I'm just going to drop them in the same post.


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 8, 2004)

Brother S -- I'll swap my 2nd and 3rd for your 2nd and 4th.  That'd give you the 5th pick in the 2nd, the 8th and 12th in the 3rd, and I'd have the 1st in the 2nd, the 1st in the 4th, and the 5th in the 4th.

Nick


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 8, 2004)

Nick, let me think on it...  I'll assume the offer is there until you recant it. 

Adam


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 8, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Looks like the best centers are going fast





Wow, understatement of the year after JC's pick...


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 8, 2004)

Damn! Stolen right out from under my claws!


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 8, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Damn! Stolen right out from under my claws!



Wow, I almost feel obligated to dig around and look at centers...


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 8, 2004)

Adam -- yep, the offer's not going anywhere.  Check your PMs.

Nick


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## Black Omega (Oct 8, 2004)

Yep, though the only center pick so far I would not have made is Shaq.    Good stats but you know he'l spend some time sitting with injuries and his FT% will kill you.  Yao Ming might be stretching a little but he's a top center with no real weaknesses.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 8, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> Adam -- yep, the offer's not going anywhere.  Check your PMs.




Cool, and check you own.


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## reapersaurus (Oct 8, 2004)

The Center position should be reduced to only having to field one of for a team.
The scarcity of Centers makes that position disproportionally difficult to be productive in.
Factor in how few teams in the NBA actually have a player that resembles a classic Center, and it's even worse. Many times they just get their tallest player (6' 10" ish) to man the spot, with little abilities to do anything there.
It's not like the NBA "goes through the big man" anymore...


----------



## Mistwell (Oct 9, 2004)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Yep, though the only center pick so far I would not have made is Shaq.    Good stats but you know he'l spend some time sitting with injuries and his FT% will kill you.  Yao Ming might be stretching a little but he's a top center with no real weaknesses.





Now that Shaq has his own team, rather than sharing a team with 3 other all stars, I think you are wrong.  Indeed, given that reports put Shaq in the best shape of his NBA career, having lost a lot of weight and put on a huge amount of muscle (and given that he now has something to prove), I think shaq was a wise choice.  I considered him, and only went with Dirk just barely.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 9, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I considered him, and only went with Dirk just barely.




Oh I agree totally, I was rather hoping to see him go where yahoo said he was suppose to go...  (12 overall)  Trust me he wasn't getting out of the first round undrafted.


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 9, 2004)

Shaq's FT's still suck, but oh, I think is going to have one monster of a season.  There's no Kobe on the roster, and there's nobody in the entire eastern conference that can guard him.  I think he'll average 30 pts, 14 rebs, & 3 blocks, with 60% FGs.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 9, 2004)

I'm curious..  How bad where my picks?


----------



## Mistwell (Oct 9, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I'm curious..  How bad where my picks?




I thought your picks were perfectly fine.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 10, 2004)

Jermaine O'Neal is a great pick.  I'd have taken O'Grady before James, but some people seemed pretty worried about what might happen with Tracy in Houston.  He's a steal in the second round, though.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 10, 2004)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Jermaine O'Neal is a great pick.  I'd have taken O'Grady before James, but some people seemed pretty worried about what might happen with Tracy in Houston.



True, I had considered that but it's also James second season so it seems rather hard to imagine his stats not going up from last season...  Also I've been told, by only a coworker (way big fantasy junkie), that theirs been some talk of James seeing some play at the small forward.  Yahoo lists him as a PG, he's playing SG, so if he does see enough time to qualify for SF then your looking at a first round pick that can fill 6 positions on the fantasy roster. (PG, SG, G, SF, F, UTIL)


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 10, 2004)

Yer picks were good.  From my view there were 5 key players available at that point, and those 2 were of them.     It's really a guessing game as to which will have the perfect year.  You took solid players with minimal risk, so you're in great shape.

Ya Omega, I'm also one of those worried about McGrady in Houston.  I'm open to T-Mac trade suggestions if anybody has something interesting to offer.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 10, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Yer picks were good.  From my view there were 5 key players available at that point, and those 2 were of them.     It's really a guessing game as to which will have the perfect year.  You took solid players with minimal risk, so you're in great shape.
> 
> Ya Omega, I'm also one of those worried about McGrady in Houston.  I'm open to T-Mac trade suggestions if anybody has something interesting to offer.




We might have to chat then.  I like taking chances and I can still see McGrady having a very solid year in Houston.  Hmm...hard to do a trade right now though, unless you want a pick.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 10, 2004)

Wow, another center down the drain...  I'm going to be drafting myself to play center at this rate.


----------



## fujaiwei (Oct 10, 2004)

I guess I should ve picked a center instead of going with Peja. By the time my spot (6th) comes up next round, I wonder if any good centers will be left? Does David Robinson still play? It's been a while since I've followed b-ball.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 10, 2004)

fujaiwei said:
			
		

> I guess I should ve picked a center instead of going with Peja. By the time my spot (6th) comes up next round, I wonder if any good centers will be left? Does David Robinson still play? It's been a while since I've followed b-ball.




The Admiral retired a year ago.  Nesterovic is his replacement in SA.  Had a decent year in 02-03.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 10, 2004)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> The Admiral retired a year ago.  Nesterovic is his replacement in SA.  Had a decent year in 02-03.



The question is do you "waste" your picks on centers knowing that the good ones have already gone, their by passing on the other positions that still have good players and allowing those who drafted centers to grab them or do you just pick the best player, that can play for you, and pick up someone off of wavers...

I’m more of a later…  I’ll take my forwards and guards, at least for now.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 10, 2004)

I think the lack of depth at center is one of the things that makes fantasy basketball challenging and fun.  Instead of drafting the "best" players available and sleeping throughout the season, sometimes you really have to strategize and "be a manager".  It keeps everybody involved with their teams all year round, always looking to improve the center slot through trades and keeping an eye on the waiver wire for new emerging players.

The rest of the centers that still in the pool aren't equivalent in value to many of the regular position players still available.   So the next centers probably won't be picked for a couple rounds yet.  But I would suspect that some of the managers will still be selecting centers on the high side, just to make sure they get some quality at that position.  The quality gets thin very quickly.  So near the end of the draft, everybody will be scrambling to grab something from a pool of riff-raff and chumps that get flakey playing time.  

I'll repost the Yahoo pre-ranks to give you an idea of where we currently stand. The Yahoo "pre-ranks" are very good this year, they were arranged by the experts (rather than just purely by stats) and have very few mistakes, so I think they're a great way of choosing players if you're not sure who is "good".  But expect centers (anything with C or FC) to go sooner than listed.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 10, 2004)

Moved to newer post.....


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## The Sigil (Oct 10, 2004)

Point 1: The choice of LeBron was, I think, a good one... I would've picked him in the 2nd round if you hadn't grabbed him, for the very reasons you mentioned - he fills a lot of categories, he's his team's franchise player, and he'll probably get moved to GF during the seaon, letting him fill a TON of spots.

Point 2: As far as Centers go, I think it's a no-brainer to grab Duncan and Nowitzki 1-2 simply because they're top-10 players that are light-years ahead of everyone else at the Center spot.  The gap between, say, Duncan and Nowitzki vs. the 12th best Center is huge compared to the gap between the #1 and #12 point guards.

Point 3: I know Reaper doesn't like dual-C leagues, but honestly, everyone is pretty much in the same boat.  You may get one good Center, but especialy with a draft like this, you're not going to get two dominant centers (I think Brad Miller is honestly the last "noticeably above average" Center this year because he'll get more minutes with Vlade gone and contributes in pretty much every category but threes - and assists from the C are a nice boost), so everybody will be stuck filling one spot with a Samuel Dalembert or Eddy Curry - a guy who'll get you a double double and if you're lucky some other stuff thrown in.  This makes the "management" of the game more important, and fun, IMO - figuring out what non-star to start.  Any idiot can field an all-star team. 

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 10, 2004)

Basketball is here!  The first preseason games begin today, and there will be a Laker game on TV Tuesday.  Finally we'll get a glimpse of the new team in action.


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## Mistwell (Oct 10, 2004)

Curses! I was so hopeing Ben Wallace would still be around for my pick...he is also a Center, though not listed that way.


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## The Sigil (Oct 10, 2004)

Looking forward to seeing that Laker game.

Honestly, I think with all the depth the Pistons have in the frontcourt (Rasheed Wallace, Ben Wallace, Elden Campbell, Darko Milicic, Antonio McDyess, and IIRC they picked up Derrick Coleman, too), Ben Wallace's stats might be down a touch this year.  He'll still be an excellent player, though I don't like his FT-shooting. 

--The Sigil


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## Black Omega (Oct 10, 2004)

Ben Wallace's rebounding dropped to around 10 per game once Sheed showed up in Detroit, so odds are good his stats will be down.  And his shooting is brutal.  But I still might have taken him.  He and AK-47 would have been enough to practically win blocks and steals for me by themselves.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 11, 2004)

Uh-oh, where'd Krug go?


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## Black Omega (Oct 11, 2004)

I was wondering the same thing, actually...


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## Krug (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm here.. Baron Davis to go!


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## LeapingShark (Oct 11, 2004)

Moved list to new post........


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## The Sigil (Oct 11, 2004)

We're falling "behind schedule" a bit, lads... please keep an eye on the draft thread as often as you can - especially if you're in the "on deck" circle.  Thanks.

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 11, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> We're falling "behind schedule" a bit, lads... please keep an eye on the draft thread as often as you can - especially if you're in the "on deck" circle.  Thanks.




Well I'm willing to make all my draft picks right now if it will help any...


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## Mistwell (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm not trying to be negative, but I think this new system isn't working so well.  Pre-season games are starting, and players are being injured in them, and now people who get the benefit of other people delaying their pick will be able to choose based on those injuries.  Nor will we make it through the list in time for the regular season.  And once we get to the regular season, there will be a LOT fewer trades, simply because people have a built-in perception that they will not want to trade "down" for a player they could have chosen themselves for that same pick (unless it is a 2 for 1, which is a somewhat rare type of trade, and much more difficult to do since both players need to clear space on their team in some way for it to work).   

In short, I'd like to see Yahoo handle this process sooner rather than later.  I think it's inevitable that Yahoo will have to take over at some point...unless people suddenly start making their picks very fast, or someone else comes up with a better idea on how to speed things up.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 11, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> In short, I'd like to see Yahoo handle this process sooner rather than later.  I think it's inevitable that Yahoo will have to take over at some point...unless people suddenly start making their picks very fast, or someone else comes up with a better idea on how to speed things up.




Can yahoo handle the picks for this point out, or would we lose what already has been drafted?


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## Black Omega (Oct 11, 2004)

I think it's a bit of an avalanche problem.  Too long a time between picks means people check less often which means the picks come slower, which means people check less often, etc.

I have no objection to yahoo handling it at some point, though I'd prefer we could find a time everyone can be around and take over a chat room or something.

I agree, though, we need to pick up the pace.  At this rate i'll be doing my secone round pick a full week after my first round pick.  Another two and half months and I'd have a full team.


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 11, 2004)

I hate to chime in, as I like the idea of the messageboard draft, but I think I agree with the comments above.  I PMed The Sigil with my picks earlier, but that's kind of a problem, as he's not an impartial observer -- he has a team, too (I don't think he'd take advantage of it, but it's probably ground best not covered).  If we had a completely uninvolved commissioner, we might be able to work something out with e-mail or PMs and having a proxy draft for us based on criteria, which means that we'd probably be better off using Yahoo!'s autodraft anyhow.

N


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## The Sigil (Oct 11, 2004)

Also not to be negative, but a lot of the dragging seems to be coming from the same people.  That's a problem.  Well, I said if things dragged, I'd start implementing some things to get them speeded up... so here's what we'll be doing.

Effective immediately, I will implement a "24-hour shot clock" - when the guy ahead of you submits his pick, you have 24 hours to submit yours.  If the clock runs out, your pick goes into "limbo" - you may insert it at any time later.  If you have pick in limbo when the clock runs out, you get the highest-rated player according to Yahoo.

The following change was rescinded before implementation because I changed my mind; I leave it in quotes to allow understanding of some of the later posts.



> 2 - As early as Monday, October 18th, we'll start "forcing" one round per day*.  I will ask you to send me (via e-mail) your "top X" players in the order you want them, where X is your draft position.  At approximately 9 am Pacific each morning, I will "force" each round of the draft, taking the highest player available on each list... but *the deadline to get the lists in by 6 am Pacific*.  If I don't have a list, you'll get the highest-rated player as ranked by Yahoo.  We will continue to use the messageboards during this time, however; if you are "up" you can make your pick there instead, this just ensures that we can get through the draft by making sure everyone picks in a timely fashion.
> 
> 3 - Pursuant to #2 above, I will post my own list for the Skyhawks on day X+1 on this thread in a password-protected zip file when I list the results of day X.  I will then give out the password on day X+1 so that you can't see my list until after the picks are made, but I still have to post my list before seeing everyone else's.
> 
> ...


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## LeapingShark (Oct 11, 2004)

Good ideas for speeding things up, but I certainly will not reveal my top picks to another manager in the game.  Sigil could potentially use them for ideas when picking players that slip through into the next round, plus he would know the types of players that I'm interested in.   If we did such a thing, we would need an impartial 3rd party to sort the lists.

I like the 12 hour window thing, and I think it should be increased if we're still far behind later on.

Oct 11-17: 12 hour window (ensures 12+ picks)
Oct 18-24: 6 hour window (ensures 24+ picks)
Oct 25-31: 3 hour window (ensures 48+ picks)

This way it "encourages" checking the boards even faster because there is a penalty (somebody moves up above your pick slot if you can't make it in time).  For anybody that "can't" get online fast enough (for example if you are alseep, or at work), you always have the option of posting your make-up pick at any time when you come back online.  

One other idea I had was to make it a requirement that each manager "email" the next manager in line as soon as they complete their own pick.  That way there's one less excuse not to know when your own turn begins.



			
				Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Can yahoo handle the picks for this point out, or would we lose what already has been drafted?



I don't think we even have the option to "hand it over to yahoo", unless we scrap the entire draft and start over.  Once Sigil enters our partial picks, the rest of the player pool will be free and open for everyone to pick up at random.


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## The Sigil (Oct 11, 2004)

double post


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## The Sigil (Oct 11, 2004)

I see some of your points, LeapingShark.  Would you guys prefer to do a live draft or a pre-rank draft (I can manually enter the draft order), with everyone agreeing to rank the players that their team already picked as 1, 2, 3, etc. in their pre-rank order and players other teams picked in their "do not draft" pools?

Also, if you have a problem with sending your picks to me for fear I will use that knowledge to "outwit" you, I'm willing to go back to my original suggestion (on October 27th, you submit your pre-rank list for the entire rest of the draft, with me posting my own list on this thread prior to requesting that everyone else send it).  I've tried to keep any potentially problematic portions of this process as open and as transparent as possible (e.g., the lottery) and am willing to do what I can to work around any worries/objections you might have.  

Though I feel that I should note that I should note that I would be at a unique *dis*advantage by using the method I first suggested since MY lists would be public knowledge to all 11 other owners, giving 11 of you a chance to block my "type" of picks, while my knowing your lists is not as much of an advantage, IMO since I can only "block" one pick (remember, I offered to make my lists public to everybody and while I would have the advantage of seeing everyone's lists from the day before, I can't do as much "damage" with one pick as everyone else can with 11).

I suppose the third option would be to publish everyone's daily lists after the picks are made... though that gives EVERYONE insight into your super-secret draft strategy, it means I won't have any special advantage.  

What do you guys suggest?  If everyone is okay with it, we can "force picks" but if that's going to be a problem, I'll go to the original plan of posting my own list "for the rest of the draft" on October 26th-27th-ish (i'll put it as a password-protected zip file and give the password as soon as the draft is run, so if anyone wants to reverse-engineer the draft, they can)... and then having everyone else submit theirs via e-mail and "manual autodrafting" the rest of the way out (in other words, do as much "messageboard draft" as we can and then do the equivalent of pre-ranking and letting Yahoo automatically fill our rosters).  I think that method would cause the least amount of arguing.  I just figured a daily "force feed" would give you a little more control over your final roster.

--The Sigil


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 11, 2004)

I'd have to say that the autodraft/live draft suggestions posed here (with all of us ranking/preranking according to Sigil's qualifications) work best for me.  I have to say now that LeapingShark's suggestion of the diminishing window as the draft goes on will not work for me as things are now -- I have an irregular work schedule and am away from my computer for up to 20 hours or more sometimes.  For the same reason, the 12 hour clock rubs me the wrong way, too.  I'm doing my best to be here and draft quickly, but if I should get a job offer (or be away from my computer, as I will be Wednesday), I see no reason I should be penalized for making RL my first priority.

Nick


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## John Crichton (Oct 11, 2004)

I'm ok with whatever the majority wants to do.  Not to be non-commital or anything.   

I'm even cool with just doing the draft Yahoo-style even if it means the computer auto-picking for me.


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## The Sigil (Oct 11, 2004)

I see your point, Kajamba... though I happen to think a 24-hour window is not unreasonable, and will adjust our 12-hour rule to reflect that... no sense in getting stopped at one pick for a few days in case of catastrophe.

With all the objections that are being raised, I'm just going to scrap all the changes I mentioned above and stay with the plan I laid out in the first post of this thread.

I will impose a 24-hour shot clock, as I mentioned I would do if things went slowly.
We will run the draft on the messageboards until approximately 9 am Pacific on October 26th, 2004.  At that time the "messageboard draft" will stop.  
I will post my pre-rankings in a password-protected zip file when I stop the messageboard draft.
You will have until 6 am Pacific on October 27th, 2004 to submit your pre-rank lists via e-mail (I want everything in 3 hours early so that there are no problems with late-arriving e-mails).  At approximately 9 am Pacific on October 27th, I will provide the password to the zip file so you can all see it and pick up all of your lists from my e-mail box.  Any team that does not have its list in when I pick up my e-mail will use Yahoo's default rankings.  This way I can post my list before I see your rankings and yet you will not be able to see it until it cannot affect your own rankings.
As shortly as I can after that (probably about 10-11 am Pacific), I will post the results of the draft (it will take me 1-2 hours to "manually run" the rest of the draft by going through all 12 lists, that's why the delay).  I will post all received lists at this time so everyone can review the draft for accuracy (i.e., make sure I didn't make a mistake using the lists).  You will have about 24 hours to audit the draft.
At least 24 hours - but not much more - after I post the draft results to the messageboard (again, the delay is to let you guys catch/protest any mistakes and get them fixed), I will enter the results into Yahoo (i.e., on October 28th).  Once the results have been entered into Yahoo, they will be considered "final" even if I made mistakes that are later caught (i.e., after the 24 hour window to submit mistakes).

I hope everyone considers this a fair and equitable solution... since it's what you all agreed to in the first place when you signed up. 

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't like it, but I'll go along with it.


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## The Sigil (Oct 12, 2004)

I don't like it either... but it's the best way to keep down arguments... go with the rules as originally stated.

Wishful thinking, I know, but it's too bad people can't/don't check in every few hours and make their picks so things can move swiftly... THAT would solve a LOT of problems, but you can't force that. 

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 12, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> I hope everyone considers this a fair and equitable solution... since it's what you all agreed to in the first place when you signed up.




I have no issues with the 24 hour shot clock though to be honest, no disrespect to KL, but I would rather have it at 12 as I would like to see this get finished...  

As for you finishing the offline draft that's fine with me, its just fantasy basketball... Nothing to stress over.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 12, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> I don't like it either... but it's the best way to keep down arguments... go with the rules as originally stated.



While that's true and that's why I'm going along with it, I also believe that it's a good thing to learn and grow from experiences.  The incredibly slow pace of the first week of this draft has taught us that a few things could be improved (changed) now.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 12, 2004)

List moved to new post...


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 12, 2004)

I agree that 24 hours is not unreasonable, and I can generally get here once every 24 hours -- if I can't, then I'll accept those consequences.  As for 12 or less -- neither of my part time jobs (substitute teaching or at Barnes & Noble) allows me internet access.  When I do both in a single day, that means that I'll be away from my computer for about 20 hours, give or take.  It's not that I disagree with the idea expressed, but I do slightly object to comments like "but it's too bad people can't/don't check in every few hours and make their picks so things can move swiftly."  I'm doing my best, which is, given the circumstances, pretty good, I think -- if y'all have a full-time job with internet access, benefits, and a relaxed policy on internet access, let me know.    Anyhow, when I'm off from work, I check the boards fairly frequently, but I can't promise I'll be off from work a lot -- I have to take it so I can pay my bills and that sort of thing.

Nick


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 12, 2004)

Kajamba Lion said:
			
		

> I do slightly object to comments like "but it's too bad people can't/don't check in every few hours and make their picks so things can move swiftly."




Nick, I do agree but I don't think anyone meant in malice by it.  To be honest I think everyone in here had been doing a good job.  It’s just the nature of the beast but maybe I'm just infinitely more patient after my days of PbP…


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 12, 2004)

I understand there was no malice (hence I only "slightly object").  I just felt I had to hang in there and be explicit on my point.  I have now, and I'll let it be.  I don't bear any ill will to anyone here in any way.  

Nick


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## LeapingShark (Oct 12, 2004)

Edit: Moved the chart forward to the top of the next page...


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 12, 2004)

Sigil, I hate to be a pain, okay not really, but could you update your first post in the draft thread or at least the draft order...  To be honest I'm not sure how far away from drafting I am. (Though I imagine it's a while to go.)


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## LeapingShark (Oct 12, 2004)

Check previous post now.  Does that help?


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## The Sigil (Oct 12, 2004)

I have tried to keep things updated to within a pick or so... you'll note the "list" is two rounds long and it wraps around... when we get to the bottom, we then bounce back to the top (which you should see shortly).

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 12, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Check previous post now.  Does that help?




Oh yeah, sorry I didn't see the very top of it. 

Sigil, you must be update somewhere I'm not looking...   Anyhow we seem to be farther along than I thought we where. (We made the "turn" not to long ago.  )


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## The Sigil (Oct 12, 2004)

I've been updating the first post of the draft thread... while the list of the draft order doesn't change, the team in "bold" does - the team in bold is "on the clock."  At the bottom of the post, I add all players picked (in order) to each team's roster.

Does that help you find where to look?

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 12, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Does that help you find where to look?




Ahhh, I was sort of looking for the third round draft order instead of the first and second.  (Yes, I know it’s the same as the first round.)

Anyhow, between your effort and that of LS I'll be just fine...  like 9 picks to go.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 13, 2004)

Great job!  We're really moving today!

Somebody PM Krug & Kajamba (I can't)


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## Mistwell (Oct 13, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Great job!  We're really moving today!
> 
> Somebody PM Krug & Kajamba (I can't)




done


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## Citizen Mane (Oct 13, 2004)

PM rec'd.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 13, 2004)

Great!  Good chance of burning through a couple more picks tonight then.

Maybe somebody should PM John Crichton too, just in case he comes online again tonight.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 13, 2004)

Sorry for the delay their... Mornings are never my good time. (Work)

I think it was harder for me to draft in these rounds than earlier...  lots of temptations out there.

Hopefully I didn’t blow it...


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 13, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> Richard Jefferson of the New Jersey Nets




That would have been one of the temptations I was talking about...  I think its a different type of draft when you know theirs going to be 22 picks before you get to pick again.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 13, 2004)

I was seriously considering Ilgauskas.   It's sort of a relief that I didn't have to make that decision after all.   

I went with Jefferson who doesn't get the nifty fantasy stuff like 3ptrs or blocks, but his strength is FG% and hopefully he'll get the ball on every possession.


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## The Sigil (Oct 13, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I think its a different type of draft when you know theirs going to be 22 picks before you get to pick again.



Right there with ya, big guy... I was thinking of tabbing Ilgy myself (though it would have ruined my "all M's" draft strategy).

Now that (injured) Chris Webber and Jason Kidd are "rising to the top of the board" it will be real interesting to see how long teams pick around them.  My guess is Webb goes long before Kidd.

I'm also curious to see who goes with Antoine Walker (and his FG% sink) - I have a hunch Mistwell will do it if Walker's still on the board (since Iverson's already going to sink his FG%, he may as well not worry about the category and pick up Walker, who'll contribute pretty much everywhere else... kind of like I used turnovers as my "dump stat" last year - 2500 turnovers, suckers!).

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 13, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Right there with ya, big guy... I was thinking of tabbing Ilgy myself (though it would have ruined my "all M's" draft strategy).




  Interesting strategy...  I guess its one way to ensure you get a well balance team.

Since we all seem to be a little chatty, I figured I would post my draft for my work team...   Oh you’re all welcome to try and figure out the draft strategy, but it was the default yahoo ranks.  Also it's head to head, so how did I do? 

Players
G. Payton (Bos - PG)
T. McGrady (Hou - SG)
V. Carter (Tor - GF)
R. Artest (Ind - SF)
A. Kirilenko (Uta - PF)
C. Maggette (LAC - GF)
M. Camby (Den - C)
E. Curry (Chi - C)
A. Houston (NY - SG)
T. Chandler (Chi - PF)
J. Tinsley (Ind - PG)
S. Claxton (GS - PG)
S. Swift (Mem - FC)


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## The Sigil (Oct 13, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> G. Payton (Bos - PG)
> T. McGrady (Hou - SG)
> V. Carter (Tor - GF)
> R. Artest (Ind - SF)
> ...



Let's see here... assuming you're using the Yahoo! defaults, you're looking at a lineup of

C - Camby, Curry
PF - Kirilenko
F - Artest
SF - Carter
SG - Magette
G - McGrady
PG - Claxton or Tinsley or Payton
Util - probably the two guys listed as PG above that you don't have playing PG

That leaves a "bench" of Allan Houtson, Stromile Swift, and Tyson Chandler

Reaction one: Cut Allan Houston.  Yes, he'll get you a lot of points, but (1) any idiot can score, (2) he's sharing the backcourt with two other chuckers named Crawford and Marbury, and (3) he's hurt.

Reaction two: You may want to try to trade either Tinsley or Artest for another player of about equal caliber.  Likewise, though not quite as urgent, with Tyson Chandler and Eddy Curry.  Why?  In a head-to-head league, you're scored by the week; thus, it's usually a good idea to make sure none of your players are on the same team... because if an NBA team only has a couple of games in a given week, you're going to get fewer overall stats than if they had 3 or 4... and this really hurts you when 2 or 3 players are on the same team and put up lesser stats due to fewer games at the same time.  You'd rather have the option during a week when the Pacers and Bulls each play two games of bringing in somebody who will be playing 3 or 4 games.

Reaction three: Camby will probably get hurt again this season, so expect to use Stromile Swift or Tyson Chandler some at C.  Tyson's back is a bit iffy, though, so that's a bit worrisome, too.  All the more reason to trade Tyson for another, similar FC if you can.

Reaction four: You're stacked at GF and have a lot of PGs - but lack much in the way of rebounders (even at C) - and even Camby's rebounding numbers may be a little off this year with a strong rebounder like K-Mart alongside him.  This will make your rebounding a bit below average. If possible, you may want to upgrade your Center position's rebounding abilities via trade.

There's my worthless advice.  Point #2 is only applicable in head-to-head leagues, not straight rotisserie leagues (like we have for ENWorld), but I think it's a hugely important one.  The guy who averages 12-10 (12 pts, 10 reb) but plays 3 games in a given week is more valuable to you (that week) than the guy who averages 15-12 but plays in just two games.  Heck, the guy who averages 10-8 and plays in four games is more valuable than both of them!  By making sure every player on your team is from a different NBA team, you maximize your chances of being able to plug in players who are going to see three or four games instead of those that are playing just a couple of games in a given week.


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## Mistwell (Oct 13, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Right there with ya, big guy... I was thinking of tabbing Ilgy myself (though it would have ruined my "all M's" draft strategy).
> 
> Now that (injured) Chris Webber and Jason Kidd are "rising to the top of the board" it will be real interesting to see how long teams pick around them.  My guess is Webb goes long before Kidd.
> 
> ...




I actually think Webber is seriously damaged goods at this point. I dunno.  Not saying I wouldn't consider him if he's still there for my next pick...but looking at his record for injury for the past several years, and just how many games the guy misses...I'm really not sure he is worth even a 5th round pick.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 13, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I actually think Webber is seriously damaged goods at this point. I dunno.  Not saying I wouldn't consider him if he's still there for my next pick...but looking at his record for injury for the past several years, and just how many games the guy misses...I'm really not sure he is worth even a 5th round pick.




I got the same jive on Jason Kidd...  For someone who dishes the ball so well he sure isn’t much of a team player...     Then again Payton (Gary) seems to have lost his mind long ago. 

Sigil, thanks for the advice.   I'll look into doing something with it soon.   Good point about the number of games a week.  To be honest I'm a big fan for head to head but I guess it works better with the big sports... (football and baseball.)


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## LeapingShark (Oct 13, 2004)

With head-to-head you don't need to be well-rounded.  As long as you win a majority of the cats, you can win the week (and potentially win it all).  Since you're weak in rebounds, just cut your losses and forget about them.   Try to emphasize and enhance your stronger cats so that you can beat your match-up opponent by majority each week.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 13, 2004)

Chart moved forward to next page...


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## LeapingShark (Oct 14, 2004)

Anybody alert Krug yet?  I know he's around, I can see him.    (Maybe he's busy with stuff elsewhere around the forum though)


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## Mistwell (Oct 14, 2004)

Both Black Omega and croatiansensation have blocked PMs, so we cannot inform them that they are up.

I wish everyone would permit PMs here, at least until the draft is over.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 14, 2004)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I wish everyone would permit PMs here, at least until the draft is over.




Their registered users, they simply do not have a PM function so it’s not their choice in the matter.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 14, 2004)

That is to say, I know at least croationsensation is not an ENWorld supporter, and only supporters (i.e., those that paid money) have PMing enabled.  (Not sure about Black Omega).  Don't worry about croationsensation, though - I have him on MSN Messenger and let him know his picks are on deck.  He should be ready (same with Chief Sleep).


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 14, 2004)

One of these days I will get around to sending in my 24.95 (or whatever) for registration, but I don't usually "post" in threads often enough for it to seem worthwhile (though ironically, I have been skimming the various versions of these boards pretty much every day since December of 99)


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 14, 2004)

My picks are posted.

And sorry, no PM here.  So Leaping Shark, drop me an email at chojin@sbcglobal.net?  We can chat.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 16, 2004)

Theo Ratliff?!?!?!

CURSE YOU, LEAPING SHARK!!!

I agonized over whether to snag Jones or Theo and hope the other one slid 4 picks.  In retrospect, I should have noticed you had no Centers on your roster yet.  Clearly, I chose... poorly.

--The Sigil


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 16, 2004)

I probably would have tried for Ratliff next round, but no earlier.  He literally offers nothing but blocks.  but damn is he good for those.


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 16, 2004)

If it's any consolation, I was looking to take Eddie Mones if Theo was gone.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 16, 2004)

Blirgleflickle.  I guess either way I was hosed. 

*scrambles to figure out what to do with his sixth-round pick*

--The Sigil


----------



## Krug (Oct 16, 2004)

Man the dropoff in talent for centers is immense...


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 16, 2004)

I figured Eddie put up pretty good numbers (except FG%) last year, and with Shaq's arrival, that FG% should go up some... and I don't see him having a huge dip in his scoring since even though the Heat have added Shaq, they gave up Odom, Butler, and Grant - who took (combined) about the same number of shots.

We'll see if I guessed right, I suppose.

--The Sigil


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 16, 2004)

RE: Dropoff in talent

Yes, it is... that's why I was hoping to snag Ratliff to at least have two serviceable centers.

I guess I'll have to pull a sleeper or two (and I do have a couple guys in mind) out of my backside in round 8 or 9.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 16, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> I agonized over whether to snag Jones or Theo and hope the other one slid 4 picks.




Well he wasn't going to slide 4 more picks only 1... 

I think I'm going to take some of that 12 hour time limit...  LS you intrested in trade Theo for Ilgauskas and your next draft pick let me know.


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 16, 2004)

Speaking of trades, I might be willing to swap my 6th and 7th round picks with someone who has a top 6 pick in the 7th round (i.e., I'd move down a few spots in the 6th round and move up a few spots in the 7th round while the other owner would move up a few spots in the 6th round and down a few spots in the 7th round) - them what might be interested, let me know via e-mail.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 16, 2004)

I have question.  In our Yahoo league, there is a "Pending" period of 2 days for trades, providing a large safety window for all managers to review a completed trade before it goes into effect.  That still applies here?

Also, I noticed that one of our league's default settings was removed.  Normally after the draft is over, the remaining players go directly to "waivers", where they remain until they clear waivers.  This is to give managers 2 days to examine their rosters, and place waiver bids on the remaining players, which are sorted by priority.  Afterwords, all players change to free agents.  The post-draft setting we have is "free agents", which means whichever managers happen to have free time at the conclusion of the draft, can immediatly claim whatever players they wish, while the other managers are asleep/working, etc.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 16, 2004)

LeapingShark said:
			
		

> I have question.  In our Yahoo league, there is a "Pending" period of 2 days for trades, providing a large safety window for all managers to review a completed trade before it goes into effect.  That still applies here?




Good question... Not sure.



			
				LeapingShark said:
			
		

> This is to give managers 2 days to examine their rosters, and place waiver bids on the remaining players, which are sorted by priority.  Afterwords, all players change to free agents.




I agree with LS on this, I think the setting needs to return to the default...  I've seen this abused a few times in my life... It’s not fun nor is it fair.  (I am willing to change it from 2 days to 1 day.)

Edit: I'm considering myself to be off the clock until the trade review ruling is decided.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 16, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Edit: I'm considering myself to be off the clock until the trade review ruling is decided.




Nevermindd, LS and I couldn't reach a trade agreement. (via email)


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 16, 2004)

I was commenting to LS via email, it's hard to trade at this point.  There's so many picks to go, you can't even really be sure what you'll need.  After the draft is done, I'm betting there will be some trades, though.


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 16, 2004)

The 2004 ENba Draft!

Snake-Draft Chart

[highlight]*1*[/highlight], [highlight]*24*[/highlight], [highlight]*25*[/highlight], [highlight]*48*[/highlight], [highlight]*49*[/highlight], [highlight]*72*[/highlight], [highlight]*73*[/highlight], [highlight]*96*[/highlight], [highlight]*97*[/highlight], 120, 121, 144, 145 ---- ChiefSleep - Chief Sleep
[highlight]*2*[/highlight], [highlight]*23*[/highlight], [highlight]*26*[/highlight], [highlight]*47*[/highlight], [highlight]*50*[/highlight], [highlight]*71*[/highlight], [highlight]*74*[/highlight], [highlight]*95*[/highlight], [highlight]*98*[/highlight], 119, 122, 143, 146 ---- croatiansensation - Red Star
[highlight]*3*[/highlight], [highlight]*22*[/highlight], [highlight]*27*[/highlight], [highlight]*46*[/highlight], [highlight]*51*[/highlight], [highlight]*70*[/highlight], [highlight]*75*[/highlight], [highlight]*94*[/highlight], [highlight]*99*[/highlight], 118, 123, 142, 147 ---- Black Omega - Tokyo Samurai
[highlight]*4*[/highlight], [highlight]*21*[/highlight], [highlight]*28*[/highlight], [highlight]*45*[/highlight], [highlight]*52*[/highlight], [highlight]*69*[/highlight], [highlight]*76*[/highlight], [highlight]*93*[/highlight], [highlight]*100*[/highlight], 117, 124, 141, 148 ---- Mistwell - Mistwell's Maulers
[highlight]*5*[/highlight], [highlight]*20*[/highlight], [highlight]*29*[/highlight], [highlight]*44*[/highlight], [highlight]*53*[/highlight], [highlight]*68*[/highlight], [highlight]*77*[/highlight], [highlight]*92*[/highlight], [highlight]*101*[/highlight], 116, 125, 140, 149 ---- John Semlak - The Frost Mages
[highlight]*6*[/highlight], [highlight]*19*[/highlight], [highlight]*30*[/highlight], [highlight]*43*[/highlight], [highlight]*54*[/highlight], [highlight]*67*[/highlight], [highlight]*78*[/highlight], [highlight]*91*[/highlight], [highlight]*102*[/highlight], 115, 126, 139, 150 ---- fujaiwei - Okamis
[highlight]*7*[/highlight], [highlight]*18*[/highlight], [highlight]*31*[/highlight], [highlight]*42*[/highlight], [highlight]*42*[/highlight], [highlight]*66*[/highlight], [highlight]*79*[/highlight], [highlight]*90*[/highlight], [highlight]*103*[/highlight], 114, 127, 138, 151 ---- Krug - Dwarven Stormhammers
[highlight]*8*[/highlight], [highlight]*17*[/highlight], [highlight]*32*[/highlight], [highlight]*41*[/highlight], [highlight]*56*[/highlight], [highlight]*65*[/highlight], [highlight]*80*[/highlight], [highlight]*89*[/highlight], [highlight]*104*[/highlight], [highlight]*113*[/highlight], 128, 137, 152 ---- Kajamba Lion - Wampanoag Lions
[highlight]*9*[/highlight], [highlight]*16*[/highlight], [highlight]*33*[/highlight], [highlight]*40*[/highlight], [highlight]*57*[/highlight], [highlight]*64*[/highlight], [highlight]*81*[/highlight], [highlight]*88*[/highlight], [highlight]*105*[/highlight], [highlight]*112*[/highlight], 129, 136, 153 ---- John Crichton - JC/DC
[highlight]*10*[/highlight], [highlight]*15*[/highlight], [highlight]*34*[/highlight], [highlight]*39*[/highlight], [highlight]*58*[/highlight], [highlight]*63*[/highlight], [highlight]*82*[/highlight], [highlight]*87*[/highlight], [highlight]*106*[/highlight], [highlight]*111*[/highlight], 130, 135, 154 ---- The_Sigil - Skyhawks
[highlight]*11*[/highlight], [highlight]*14*[/highlight], [highlight]*35*[/highlight], [highlight]*38*[/highlight], [highlight]*59*[/highlight], [highlight]*62*[/highlight], [highlight]*83*[/highlight], [highlight]*86*[/highlight], [highlight]*107*[/highlight], [highlight]*110*[/highlight], 131, 134, 155 ---- LeapingShark - Gelatinous Cubes
[highlight]*12*[/highlight], [highlight]*13*[/highlight], [highlight]*36*[/highlight], [highlight]*37*[/highlight], [highlight]*60*[/highlight], [highlight]*61*[/highlight], [highlight]*84*[/highlight], [highlight]*85*[/highlight], [highlight]*108*[/highlight], [highlight]*109*[/highlight], 132, 133, 156 ---- Brother Shatterstone - BS's Flagrant Fouls

Lions just took Antonio McDyess
Stormhammers are up for #114

*Available Player List*

1st (Oct 6-7)

1. K.Garnett (Min - F) - Chief Sleep (1st, #1)
2. T.Duncan (SA - FC) - Red Star (1st, #2)
3. K.Bryant (LAL - SG) - Dwarven Stormhammers (1st, #7)
4. T.McGrady (Hou - SG) - Gelatinous Cubes (2nd, #14)
5. D.Nowitzki (Dal - FC) - Mistwell Maulers (1st, #4)
6. E.Brand (LAC - PF) - Gelatinous Cubes (1st, #11)
7. P.Stojakovic (Sac - SF) - Okamis (1st, #6)
8. S.Marion (Pho - SF) - Skyhawks (1st, #10)
9. R.Allen (Sea - SG) - Wampanoag Lions (1st, #8)
10. A.Kirilenko (Uta - PF) - Tokyo Samurai (1st, #3)
11. P.Pierce (Bos - SG) - Wampanoag Lions (2nd, #17)
12. S.ONeal (Mia - C) - The Frost Mages (1st, #5)

2nd (Oct 8-9)

13. J.O'Neal (Ind - PF) - Flagrant Fouls (2nd, #13)
14. L.James (Cle - PG) - Flagrant Fouls (1st, #12)
15. B.Davis (Cha - PG) - Dwarven Stormhammers (2nd, #18)
16. L.Odom (LAL - F) - Chief Sleep (2nd, #24)
17. S.Cassell (Min - PG) - Okamis (2nd, #19)
18. S.Francis (Orl - PG) - Tokyo Samurai (2nd, #22)
19. A.Iverson (Phi - SG) - Mistwell Maulers (3rd, #28)
20. Y.Ming (Hou - C) - JC/DC (1st, #9)
21. S.Marbury (NY - PG) - Mistwell Maulers (2nd, #21)
22. V.Carter (Tor - GF) - The Frost Mages (2nd, #20)
23. B.Wallace (Det - PF) - JC/DC (2nd, #16)
24. B.Miller (Sac - FC) - Skyhawks (2nd, #15)

3rd (Oct 10-11)

25. G.Arenas (Was - PG) - Tokyo Samurai (4th, #46)
26. C.Webber (Sac - PF) -  Dwarven Stormhammers (4th, #42)
27. M.Bibby (Sac - PG) -  The Frost Mages (3rd, #29)
28. S.Nash (Pho - PG) - Red Star (3rd, #26)
29. Z.Randolph (Por - PF) - Red Star (2nd, #23)
30. A.Stoudemire (Pho - PF) - Tokyo Samurai (3rd, #27)
31. P.Gasol (Mem - PF) - Dwarven Stormhammers (3rd, #31)
32. K.Martin (Den - PF) - Okamis (3rd, #30)
33. D.Marshall (Tor - SF) - Skyhawks (3rd, #34)
34. M.Redd (Mil - SG) - JC/DC (3rd, #33)
35. R.Artest (Ind - SF) - Wampanoag Lions (3rd, #31)
36. D.Wade (Mia - PG) - Chief Sleep (3rd, #25)

4th (Oct 12-13)

37. J.Terry (Dal - PG) - JC/DC (4th, #40)
38. J.Kidd (NJ - PG) - Dwarven Stormhammers (7th, #79)
39. A.Walker (Atl - F) - Wampanoag Lions (4th, #41)
40. C.Maggette (LAC - GF) - Gelatinous Cubes (3rd, #35)
41. C.Anthony (Den - SF) - The Frost Mages (4th, #44)
42. A.Miller (Den - PG) - Skyhawks (4th, #39)
43. R.Jefferson (NJ - SF) - Gelatinous Cubes (4th, #38)
44. K.Hinrich (Chi - PG) - JC/DC (5th, #57)
45. J.Richardson (GS - SG) - Red Star (4th, #47)
46. C.Boozer (Uta - PF) - Flagrant Fouls (3rd, #36)
47. R.Lewis (Sea - SF) - Dwarven Stormhammers (5th, #55)
48. A.Jamison (Was - F) - Mistwell Maulers (4th, #45)

5th (Oct 14-15)

49. C.Billups (Det - PG) - Wampanoag Lions (5th, #56)
50. M.Finley (Dal - GF) - Okamis (4th, #43)
51. S.Dalembert (Phi - FC) - Mistwell Maulers (5th, #52)
52. B.Barry (SA - G) - The Frost Mages (6th, #68)
53. M.Camby (Den - C) - Dwarven Stormhammers (6th, #66)
54. C.Mobley (Orl - SG) - Okamis (5th, #54)
55. J.Posey (Mem - GF) - JC/DC (6th, #64)
56. A.Harrington (Atl - SF) - Chief Sleep (5th, #49)
57. G.Payton (Bos - PG) - Gelatinous Cubes (6th, #62)
58. K.Van Horn (Mil - SF) - Tokyo Samurai (7th, #75)
59. J.Magloire (NO - C) - Tokyo Samurai (5th, #51)
60. R.Wallace (Det - FC) - The Frost Mages (5th, #53)

6th (Oct 16-17)

61. J.Crawford (NY - SG) - Flagrant Fouls (5th, #60)
62. R.Hamilton (Det - SG) - Chief Sleep (4th, #48)
63. S.Abdur-Rahim (Por - PF) - Skyhawks (6th, #63)
64. E.Jones (Mia - SG) - Skyhawks (5th, #58)
65. M.Ginobili (SA - SG) - Mistwell Maulers (6th, #69)
66. Z.Ilgauskas (Cle - C) - Flagrant Fouls (4th, #37)
67. C.Arroyo (Uta - PG) - Red Star (6th, #71)
68. T.Parker (SA - PG) - Okamis (7th, #78)
69. C.Bosh (Tor - FC) - Flagrant Fouls (6th, #61)
70. T.Ratliff (Por - FC) - Gelatinous Cubes (5th, #59)
71. J.Howard (Hou - F) - Mistwell Maulers (7th, #76)
72. K.Thomas (NY - FC) - Okamis (6th, #67) 

7th (Oct 18-19)

73. J.Johnson (Pho - SG) - Chief Sleep (8th, #96)
74. G.Robinson (Phi - SF)
75. B.Gordon (Chi - G) - JC/DC (9th, #105)
76. E.Dampier (Dal - C) - Red Star (5th, #50)
77. A.Houston (NY - SG)
78. T.Prince (Det - SF) - Mistwell Maulers (9th, #100) 
79. S.Jackson (Ind - GF) - Red Star (7th, #74)
80. L.Sprewell (Min - GF) - The Frost Mages (7th, #77)
81. J.Stackhouse (Dal - GF) - The Frost Mages (9th, #101)
82. M.Harpring (Uta - SF) - Dwarven Stormhammers (8th, #90)
83. G.Wallace (Cha - SF)
84. J.Williams (Mem - PG) - Gelatinous Cubes (7th, #83)

8th (Oct 20-21)

85. D.Christie (Sac - SG) - JC/DC (8th, #88)
86. D.Wesley (NO - SG)
87. K.Kittles (LAC - SG) - Wampanoag Lions (8th, #89)
88. E.Okafor (Cha - FC) - Wampanoag Lions (6th, #65)
89. M.Okur (Uta - FC) - Skyhawks (8th, #87)
90. E.Curry (Chi - C) - Chief Sleep (6th, #72)
91. M.Jaric (LAC - PG)  
92. G.Hill (Orl - SF) - Chief Sleep (7th, #73)
93. L.Hughes (Was - SG) -  Flagrant Fouls (7th, #84)
94. Q.Richardson (Pho - SG) - Tokyo Samurai (6th, #70)
95. J.Rose (Tor - G) - Red Star (9th, #98)
96. C.Atkins (LAL - PG)

9th (Oct 22-23) 

97. T.Chandler (Chi - PF)
98. M.Dunleavy (GS - SF)
99. B.Wells (Mem - SG)
100. K.Brown (Was - PF) - JC/DC (10th, #112)
101. C.Kaman (LAC - C) - The Frost Mages (8th, #92)
102. R.Nesterovic (SA - C) - Tokyo Samurai (8th, #94)
103. W.Green (Phi - SG)
104. E.Snow (Cle - PG)
105. T.Murphy (GS - PF) - Wampanoag Lions (9th, #105)
106. P.Brown (NO - PF)
107. J.Howard (Dal - GF)
108. D.Howard (Orl - PF) - Okamis (9th, #102)

10th (Oct 24-25)

109. K.Thomas (Phi - PF)
110. T.Thomas (NY - F)
111. E.Thomas (Was - FC)
112. J.Tinsley (Ind - PG)
113. R.Alston (Tor - PG) - Mistwell Maulers (8th, #93)
114. M.Blount (Bos - C) - Wampanoag Lions (7th, #80)
115. J.Jackson (Hou - GF) - JC/DC (7th, #81)
116. D.Harris (Dal - G)
117. J.Hayes (Was - SF)
118. R.Davis (Bos - GF) - Skyhawks (7th, #82)
119. A.Jefferson (Bos - PF)
120. C.Wilcox (LAC - PF)

11th (Oct 26-27) Bench Players

121. C.Butler (LAL - SF)
122. D.Stoudamire (Por - PG) -  Flagrant Fouls (8th, #85)
123. W.Szczerbiak (Min - SF)
124. D.Gooden (Cle - F) - Tokyo Samurai (9th, #99)
125. V.Lenard (Den - SG)
126. N.Collison (Sea - PF)
127. M.Olowokandi (Min - C)
128. P.Brezek (Cha - C) - Red Star (8th, #95)
129. D.Anderson (Por - SG) - Gelatinous Cubes (9th, #107)
130. J.Smith (Mil - PF)
131. D.Armstrong (NO - PG)
132. R.Arujo (Tor - C) - Okamis (8th, #91)

12th (Oct 28-29)

133. A.Foyle (GS - C)
134. S.Claxton (SG - PG)
135. V.Radmanovic (Sea - PF)
136. J.Welsch (Bos - GF)
137. L.Jackson (Cle - F)
138. M.Daniels (Dal - GF) - Gelatinous Cubes (10th, #110)
139. D.Miles (Por - GF)
140. M.Miller (Mem - GF)
141. Nene Hilario (Den - FC)
142. V.Divac (LAL - C) - Dwarven Stormhammers (9th, #103)
143. A.Mourning (NJ - C)
144. H.Turkoglu (Orl - GF)

13th (Oct 30-31)

145. D.Mason (Mil - GF)
146. S.Swift (Mem - FC) - Chief Sleep (9th, #97)
147. N.Van Exel (Por - PG)
148. B.Jackson (Sac - PG) - Skyhawks (10th, #111)
149. A.Davis (Chi - FC)
150. L.Ridnour (Sea - PG)
151. L.Barbosa (Pho - PG)
152. A.Daniels (Sea - PG)
153. M.Ely (Cha - FC)
154. U.Haslem (Mia - PF)
155. B.Grant (LAL - C)
156. J.McInnis (Cle - SG) - Flagrant Fouls (9th, #108)

Draft Complete (Nov 1st) 
(NBA Season Begins Nov 2)

Some Additional Options

157. R.Mercer (NJ - GF)
158. E.Najera (GS - FC)
159. R.Murray (Sea - SG)
160. R.Miller (Ind - SG)
161. B.Hunter (Cha - PF)
162. T.Ford (Mil - PG)
163. D.Fortson (Sea - FC)
164. J.Bender (Ind - F)
165. R.Butler (Mia - GF)
166. W.Person (Mia - SG)
167. T.Delk (Atl - G)
168. L.Deng (Chi - GF) - Flagrant Fouls (10th, #109)
169. K.Cato (Orl - FC)
170. D.Fisher (GS - PG)
171. E.Piatkowski (Chi - GF)
172. C.Robinson (GS - FC)
173. T.Hassell (Min - SG)
174. Z.Plannic (NJ - PG)
175. S.Battier (Mem - SF)
176. M.Pietrus (GS - GF)
177. J.Kapono (Cha - SF)
178. T.SMith (Cha - F)
179. L.Wright (Ind - C)
180. J.Foster (Ind - C)
181. T.Lue (Hou - PG)
182. B.Scalabrine (NJ - PF)
183. N.Mohammed (NY - C)
184. G.Giricek (Uta - GF)
185. R.Rogers (NO - F)
186. J.Nelson (Orl - PG)
187. J.Williams (NY - PF)
188. A.McKie (Phi - GF)
189. D.Gadzuric (Mil - C)
190. T.Kukoc (Mil - F)
191. D.Mutombo (Hou - C)
192. J.Childress (Atl - GF)
193. A.Pavlovic (Cle - GF)
194. W.McCarty (Bos - F)
195. D.West (NO - PF)
196. D.West (Bos - G)
197. J.WHite (Cha - C)
198. A.McDyess (Det - PF) - Wampanoag Lions (10th, #113)
199. D.Jones (Mia - PG)
200. Q.Woods (Por - GF)
201. M.Peterson (Tor - GF)
202. M.James (Mil - PG)
203. F.Hoiberg (Min - SG)
204. B.Cardinal (Mem - F)
205. D.George (LAL - SF)
206. K.Malone (LAL - PF)
207. E.Boykins (Den - PG)
208. G.Ostertag (Sac - C)
209. A.Peeler (Was - SG)
210. B.Bowen (SA - SF)
211. S.Bradley (Dal - C)
212. C.Ward (Hou - PG)
213. A.Hardaway (NY - SG)
214. B.Outlaw (Mem - PF)
215. H.Eisley (Pho - PG)
216. B.Haywood (Was - C)
217. A.Williams (Tor - G)
218. D.Davis (GS - C)
219. E.Williams (NJ - GF)
220. J.Barry (Atl - SG)
221. R.Bell (Uta - SG)
222. C.Laettner (Mia - FC)
223. Ja.Collins (NJ - C)
224. R.Horry (SA - PF)
225. B.Sura (Hou - SG)
226. S.Anderson (NY - GF)
227. R.Patterson (Por - SF)
228. T.Battie (Orl - C)
229. E.Watson (Mem - PG)
230. B.Skinner (Phi - FC)
231. J.Voskuhl (Pho - C)
232. C.Jacobsen (Pho - GF)
233. A.DeClerq (Orl - C)
234. M.Taylor (Hou - PF)
235. L.Harris (Cle - SG)
236. C.Crawford (Atl - F)
237. C.Cheaney (GS - GF)
238. J.Dixon (Was - G)
239. An.Johnson (Ind - PG)
240. A.Williams (NJ - FC)
241. C.Williamson (Phi - SF)
242. C.Booth (Dal - FC)
243. R.Lopez (Uta - PG)
244. D.Stevenson (Orl - SG)
245. C.Weatherspoon (Hou - SF)
246. C.Mihm (LAL - FC)
247. E.House (Cha - SG)
248. G.Lynch (NO - SF)
249. J.Mashburn (NO - SF)
250. D.Songalia (Sac - PF)


275. R.LaFrentz (Bos - FC) - Gelatinous Cubes (8th, #86)
413. A.Nocioni (Chi - F) - Skyhawks (9th, #106)


----------



## LeapingShark (Oct 16, 2004)

My last post in the main thread also includes Gary in a "spoiler", just to make sure I've officially posted the "name" for my pick.


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 17, 2004)

> Kajamba Lion select Emeka Okafor, F/C, Charlotte Bobcats.




Ack!  I was really hoping he'd fall through the cracks until my turn.


----------



## Citizen Mane (Oct 17, 2004)

Yeah, I was looking for a C and couldn't believe it when I scanned the list and saw Okafor was still floating out there.  After having Pau Gasol and Shareef Abdur-Rahim taken out from under my nose, I was due.  

Nick


----------



## The Sigil (Oct 19, 2004)

As I'm sure you're all aware, ENWorld being down for nearly two days has put us nearly two days behind.  We're approaching the half-way mark in terms of picks, but it's taken us 12 days to get there... we have 9 days remaining until I will cut things off and use lists to "autopick" the rest of the way.  But we were moving at a rate of about 1 round per day (usually the top or the bottom half of the draft each picking twice) before the outage, so at that rate, we should get done with time to spare.

Please try your best to keep up the pace!  I don't want to have to finish this off with lists! 

--The Sigil


----------



## Black Omega (Oct 19, 2004)

If it helps, I'd be happy to take my next round pick right now and just let everyone catch up.  Red Star and and Sleep would only miss out on one player.


----------



## fujaiwei (Oct 19, 2004)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> If it helps, I'd be happy to take my next round pick right now and just let everyone catch up.  Red Star and and Sleep would only miss out on one player.



Ha! I'm sure they wouldn't mind that, now would they.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 19, 2004)

Wow, looks like we had another run on Centers...  Wonder what spurred that on. 

LS, just to make sure, did you update the overall draft board?  (It looks updated but I would rather be sure than to assume it.)


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## LeapingShark (Oct 19, 2004)

Yep, it's updated.


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## The Sigil (Oct 19, 2004)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Wow, looks like we had another run on Centers...  Wonder what spurred that on.



Actually, I really DO wonder what spurred it on... I mean, is the difference between what you'll get now and what you'll get later really THAT big?

--The Sigil


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## Brother Shatterstone (Oct 19, 2004)

The Sigil said:
			
		

> Actually, I really DO wonder what spurred it on... I mean, is the difference between what you'll get now and what you'll get later really THAT big?




Kind of what I was thinking to...  I'm wondering if I should have changed my draft strategy after Theo went way pick to early...

So since C. Bosh is rated higher than Theo is he better?  I've read a few times that he is a blooming All-Star...

LS, thanks.


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## The Sigil (Oct 19, 2004)

I dunno, my general "rule of thumb" is to take the "best player available" in rounds one through four, then "plug the stat holes" in rounds five through eight (e.g., I picked Eddie Jones because I noticed my threes and steals and blocks were deficient and Eddie filled two of those needs; Theo Ratliff filled one, which is why I had hoped to pick him on the "back side" of the draft).  I really don't worry about positions in the first eight rounds except to (a) use Center as a tie-break if need be between two players and (b) make sure I don't "overfill" a position (e.g., since a SF can play at SF, F, Util, and Util, I don't want to pick 5 small forwards in my first 8 picks).  

I really feel that leagues are won and lost in rounds 5 through 8 because the first four rounds are all "stars" - no brainers - and the last 5 rounds are all "filler" - you might get lucky on a flyer pick, but for the most part, you're not going to get much... but in rounds 5 through 8 you usually have to try to figure out who's going to have a breakout year and who's going to disappoint, and that's the tough part.  

Picks nine through thirteen are used to fill the holes in my lineup (e.g., drafting a second C if I need him) and to try to pick up "johnny one-trick" players (e.g., last season it would have been a guy like Chris Andersen, who will get you a block or two per game in limited minutes but nothing else - worth having toward the end of the season if you need a sudden injection of blocks to make a move and have a big enough cushion to take the "stat hit" in other categories).  This is also the time to draft the "high risk" player because the downside is very little (the player you're passing on ain't all that good) - I might target a guy like Jason Kidd, who I know won't play for half the year - in this range, because if he's out for the year, I'm not hurt much, but if he does finally play, I get a nice second-half boost - or a complete sleeper who's never really done anything but in theory has talent - like Michael Olowokandi (ROFLMAO).

Of course, I reserve the right to deviate from this strategy in our draft.  Can't be too predictable, y'know. 

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 19, 2004)

The difference between Theo & Bosh is mostly one of strategy and consequences.

Theo is "blocktacular", and immediately solidifies that category.  However he is weak or average in all the other areas, and there is practically zero room for improvement over last year.   Plus he's had some injury-plagued seasons in the past.

Bosh is a more well-rounded guy, with less risk, and more upside.  Compared to most other centers, he's probably going to be above average in scoring (same for Curry), and his stand-out skill in college was blocks.  The main draw with Bosh is untapped potential, it's within reason for him to exceed the quality of Jamaal Magloire this year.  Though it's also possible that he will not improve, mostly because he's so underweight for a big man (he's listed at 228, while say, PG Baron Davis is 223).


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## The Sigil (Oct 22, 2004)

As a reminder, the "live/messageboard" draft is scheduled to end on October 26th... we have about 68 picks - five-and-three-quarters more rounds - to get through by then.  Unless we get a much greater sense of urgency, I don't think we're going to make it... things slow down on the weekends, and we were barely on pace when ENWorld crashed twice, and that slowed us down even more. 

The "drop-dead" deadline for messageboard picks will be at noon Pacific time on October 26th (that's TUESDAY).  That's approximately 95 hours from now, so if we're going to beat that deadline, we need to average approximately one pick every 1.5 hours or so.  Given our past history, I don't think we'll make it.  Once we hit noon Pacific on October 26th, no more "messageboard picks" will be accepted - we will stop where we are and the remainder of the draft will be run via draft lists.

I will post my prioritized list, in order (though it will be password-protected) a few minutes after 12 noon (Pacific time) on October 26th; I will ask the rest of you to send your lists via e-mail (send to the_sigil -at- hotmail -dot- com, please) at some time after the deadline passes but before 12 noon (again, Pacific time) on October 27th.  Partial lists are okay - you can, for instance, give me a list of, say, 20 players and just say, "use default Yahoo rankings after this excluding players X, Y, and Z."

Any team that whose list has not been received by 12 noon on October 27th will use Yahoo's default rankings.  As close to noon as I can get on October 27th (I have an off-site meeting at work that morning), I will post the password to unlock my list, so you can all see that I posted it with no prior knowledge of your lists.

As soon as I can "manually" run the remainder of the draft from the lists I received after posting the zip file password, I will post both the final draft results and all the lists I received so that you can audit my "manual draft' for errors.  Any errors caught within 24 hours of my posting the lists will be corrected.  

I will enter the draft results into the Yahoo system sometime on October 28th, at least 24 hours after posting the final draft results and lists (i.e., after the 24 hour audit).  Any errors that on the draft lists might be caught after I have entered the results into Yahoo will not be corrected (in the interest of keeping things simple and getting things started in a timely fashion).  

If I make an error based on the lists when entering your team into Yahoo, I'll ask you to please make the trades, cuts, etc. with other owners to get things right (hopefully this shouldn't happen).  Thus, we should have everything done and ready to go some time early afternoon Pacific time (early evening on the East Coast) on Thursday, October 28th - which gives you five days to make trades, free agent signings, lineups, etc. to get your team ready for the start of the NBA Season (November 2nd).

Thanks in advance everyone for being understanding as to why I have to put a cutoff time in place!  Hope this has been a good and fun experience for all, and please give me feedback as to whether or not you want to use this method next year or go back to the "autodraft" method where Yahoo does all the drafting.

--The Sigil


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## LeapingShark (Oct 22, 2004)

Are you going to fix the post-draft "free agent" setting?  It's looks to me like it's been adjusted from the Yahoo default of "waivers" (twas waivers last year).  With waivers, all undrafted players are on waivers for the first 2 days following the draft, thereafter becoming free agents for the remainder of the season.  

Since we won't be able to manually draft players on-the-fly, so possibly could have position-holes or strange pick combinations due to the "blind" draft, I presume there will be post-draft roster adjustments for some.

WIth the "free agent" setting, whoever is online as you finish entering the player rosters, gets first choice of any and all post-draft leftovers while other managers are potentially asleep/working/etc.

With the "waivers" setting, during the initial 2 day period every new player pickup would be a "claim", sorted by priority at midnight of the second day. Then afterwards the remaining players shift to free agent status.   It's seems the fairest way (which is why it's default).

Or is it already set that way somehow? (by the look of the webpage, it appears to show free agent as the post-draft setting, though could that mean something else?)


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## The Sigil (Oct 22, 2004)

I changed it to "free agents" on the theory that we'd be through all 13 rounds of the draft "in advance" and thus gusy wouldn't be looking to raid the waiver pool (since, in theory, if they wanted a guy, they would have manually picked him in the first place).  If we do make it through the draft 100% live, it will be free agents.  If we don't (looking VERY likely right now), it will be set to "waivers."  I'll make the change just before inputting the draft results if necessary.


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## LeapingShark (Oct 22, 2004)

Okay I see.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Nov 3, 2004)

I'm not sure if anyone remembers about the other league I'm in, I had shown my draft before hand...  Anyhow the only changes where picking up a 3rd center with the injury to Houston:

G. Payton (Bos - PG) 
T. McGrady (Hou - SG) 
V. Carter (Tor - GF) 
R. Artest (Ind - SF) 
A. Kirilenko (Uta - F,PF) 
C. Maggette (LAC - GF) 
M. Camby (Den - C) 
E. Curry (Chi - C) 
T. Chandler (Chi - PF) 
J. Tinsley (Ind - PG) 
S. Claxton (GS - PG) 
M. Sweetney (NY - PF)
Z. Pachulia (Mil - C,FC)
A. Houston (NY - SG)

Anyhow I just got afford this trade:

Given Up:
T. McGrady (Hou - SG) 
C. Maggette (LAC - GF) 

For:
K. Garnett (Min - F) 
L. Deng (Chi - GF)
A. Nocioni (Chi - F,SF)

This is a head to head league so I realize that triple Bulls could be a bad thing but what does everyone think?

Edit:  Oops quadruple bulls I had forgot about Chandler cause he’s always injured and I don’t see him being a real factor, or member of my team for long.


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## Black Omega (Nov 4, 2004)

What catagories does your league use?  Not sure about head to head leagues, but that's an offer I'd definitely take in our Yahoo league.  Though it's also risky, you never quite know what you'll get with rookies.


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## Citizen Mane (Nov 4, 2004)

I'd take it, too, despite the risk.  Garnett's too good to pass up IMO.

Nick


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## Brother Shatterstone (Nov 4, 2004)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> What categories does your league use?




True on the risk...  Though to be honest, and as Nick says, Garnet is too good to pass up...  

Anyhow it uses the same categories and I actually proved the trade at about 2 (PST) this afternoon.  (I'm more worried that the trade will get rejected because the others will suspect him of raping me...  Their not really big basketball fans and it’s sort of done as a layover from football and baseball.)


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## reapersaurus (Nov 7, 2004)

Garnett is a no-brainer.
He pretty much single-handedly made my team competetive last year. And there's no way you can be raped when getting the #1 player in the league.

Just an idea - if any manager drops out during the season, let me know (email in profile).

BTW: It's too bad that non-managers can't follow along the chat on the Yahoo Fantasy board during the season. This thread dies once play over there starts, and I'm curious if there's any livelyness in the chat this year again.


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## Black Omega (Nov 7, 2004)

There's some chatting but all friendly...so far


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## Mistwell (Nov 15, 2004)

Hey Reap, 

Okamis, one of the players in the fantasy basketball game, could really use the advice of an experienced player like yourself.  If you have the time, could you offer him some advice?

If you need to access the board, let me know and I will see what I can do...

His post said:



> by: Okamis (r_wagoner_99)  Nov 14 8:58pm
> I'm gettin' smacked down big-time. So, if anyone's bored, feel free to shoot me an email with some advice in it.
> %r_wagoner_99% @yahoo.com (minus the %)




His current team includes:

PG E. Snow (Cle - PG)  
 SG J. Howard (Dal - GF)  
 G C. Mobley (Orl - SG)   
 SF P. Stojakovic (Sac - SF)     
 PF K. Martin (Den - PF)     
 F D. Howard (Orl - PF)    
 Util M. FinleyIL (Dal - GF)      
 Util N. Hilario (Den - FC)    
 BN S. Cassell (Min - PG)     
 BN T. Parker (SA - PG)     
 BN A. Jefferson (Bos - PF)    
 BN R. Araujo (Tor - C)    
 BN Ku. Thomas (NY - FC,PF)


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## johnsemlak (Nov 15, 2004)

I'm pretty much in the same situation as Okamis.  I'm just not sure how to improve my situation.  I could use some advice if anyone is giving it out: johngocska@yahoo.com


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## reapersaurus (Jan 9, 2005)

aghh - just read this thread today.
I don't check this, for obvious reasons.
If anyone wants to reply to me, please email (in my profile) as this ENWorld thread usually doesn't get any traffic once the season starts (and Yahoo board is used).

And it would be hard to help without seeing the Yahoo board, unfortunately - it holds critical information to the league.


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## Mistwell (Aug 4, 2005)

I just saw my first fantasy basketball article of the season, so it reminded me of the EnWorld league.

Is it time to start a new thread on the subject and talk about it, or is it still too early?


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## Black Omega (Aug 5, 2005)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I just saw my first fantasy basketball article of the season, so it reminded me of the EnWorld league.
> 
> Is it time to start a new thread on the subject and talk about it, or is it still too early?




Probably too early.  It was September last time  before we got rolling.  Give it a month and we can start debating who'll be the new break out players.


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## Mistwell (Aug 11, 2005)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Probably too early.  It was September last time  before we got rolling.  Give it a month and we can start debating who'll be the new break out players.




Fair enough!


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## Black Omega (Aug 11, 2005)

Or we can debate if Joe Johnson will ever play for Atlanta.  That's such a mess.


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## Mistwell (Aug 12, 2005)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Or we can debate if Joe Johnson will ever play for Atlanta.  That's such a mess.




In my opinion Belkin, the guy who is holding out on the deal for the Hawks, is doing the right thing for the wrong reasons.  

He is just trying to mess with the team to force the other owners to buy him out, which is the wrong thing.  If he wants out of the ownership, he should negotiate it like an adult rather than throwing a tantrum like a child.

However, saying no to that OUTRAGEOUS contract along with not one but two first round draft picks is the right move.  If Hawks really want to pay that bloated contract for a guy who had had one good season, then they should just make him the offer and see if the Suns will fold (which I think they will).  But those draft picks are their insurance policy for future years if JJ turns out to be less than they expect.


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## Black Omega (Aug 17, 2005)

Hard to say if Joe Johnson is worth the price.  He's a good player, but was going to be the 4th guy in Phoenix.  Is the fourth best player on a top team worth two first round picks?  I'm not so sure.  At best in Atlanta he'll be the a great stats guy on a bad team.  And probably an excellent choice for a fantasy league.


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## reapersaurus (Aug 21, 2005)

What ever happened to last year's league?
The Yahoo group was private, and I was curious what happened.

Is there a thread on ENWorld that had a recap, or a summary of the surprises/events/results of the season?


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## Black Omega (Aug 22, 2005)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> What ever happened to last year's league?
> The Yahoo group was private, and I was curious what happened.
> 
> Is there a thread on ENWorld that had a recap, or a summary of the surprises/events/results of the season?



Skyhawks took first with a pretty impressive performance.  I led much of the time but faded badly thanks to injuries.  AK-47 was not my friend last year.  I think Maulers were second and Dwarven Warhammers were third, but it could have been the reverse.  Deeper league than the year before and much more competative.


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## Mistwell (Aug 22, 2005)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Skyhawks took first with a pretty impressive performance.  I led much of the time but faded badly thanks to injuries.  AK-47 was not my friend last year.  I think Maulers were second and Dwarven Warhammers were third, but it could have been the reverse.  Deeper league than the year before and much more competative.




Actually through an odd quirk in the way the software works, I believe Warhammers pulled out second by a little bit (as a result of him playing more games than we all thought was technically allowed).


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## Black Omega (Aug 22, 2005)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Actually through an odd quirk in the way the software works, I believe Warhammers pulled out second by a little bit (as a result of him playing more games than we all thought was technically allowed).



I'd forgotten that quirk.  Hopefully Yahoo fixes that this year.  No matter what I'm still plotting my revenge against all three of you.


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## Black Omega (Sep 13, 2005)

Hmm..and now is about the time this usually gets set up.


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## The Sigil (Sep 13, 2005)

Black Omega said:
			
		

> Hmm..and now is about the time this usually gets set up.




Actually set up a topic about two weeks ago but nobody showed interest.  I've bumped it up, and here's a direct link:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=145860

--The Sigil


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