# ENWorld Sculpting Project #1 The Wizard's Lab (complete)



## pogre (Aug 15, 2005)

Greetings!

This thread is for posting your works in progress (wip) pictures, comments, questions, tips or anything else you want to share about the ENWorld sculpting project.

I have arbitrarily chosen November 1st as our deadline. Please have your sculpt postmarked in the mail by that date.

Please include $4.00 for return postage including a pewter miniature of all entries submitted and your original. Those outside of the U.S. will require more - please e-mail me for details. I will only charge you for my actual postage costs.

Feel free to post any questions here as well - if you have one others probably do as well.


----------



## Alf (Aug 15, 2005)

OK. 
I have a sculpt that I started under the working name of "revenge of the familiars". This would be a great excuse to finish it. Basically it's an upside down wizard being carried away in the air by a group of flying imps. The only supporting point is the corner of a dropped book. I was experimenting with getting a "flying" feeling.
Would that fit the theme? If so I'll post the conceptsketch and the sculpt in its present stage tomorrow.


----------



## Dog Soldier (Aug 15, 2005)

I know a little about the casting process, but not much. What do we need to keep in mind when we are making our sculpts. Such as what materials we can and can't use. For example if I used plastic card and/or brass rod would they work when it comes time to cast?

This project may also have the effect making me not be as much of a lurker around here.


----------



## pogre (Aug 16, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> OK.
> I have a sculpt that I started under the working name of "revenge of the familiars". This would be a great excuse to finish it. Basically it's an upside down wizard being carried away in the air by a group of flying imps. The only supporting point is the corner of a dropped book. I was experimenting with getting a "flying" feeling.
> Would that fit the theme? If so I'll post the conceptsketch and the sculpt in its present stage tomorrow.




Sounds perfect.


----------



## pogre (Aug 16, 2005)

Dog Soldier said:
			
		

> I know a little about the casting process, but not much. What do we need to keep in mind when we are making our sculpts. Such as what materials we can and can't use. For example if I used plastic card and/or brass rod would they work when it comes time to cast?
> 
> This project may also have the effect making me not be as much of a lurker around here.




Thanks for the question Dog Soldier - great name by the way. I had the pleasure of discussing the Lakota tribe and the Wounded Knee Massacre with the great Dee Brown many years ago, but I digress...

I will be doing gravity casts employing rtv molds. RTV molds are two-part, high-strength, rubber molds that are literally poured on the original. Unlike spincaster molds, neither pressure nor heat is applied to the original in the process. This gives us the advantage of being able to use nearly everything in our figures - plastic card, wood, certain clays, kneadatite, brass, copper - all of these materials are just fine.

Naturally, drop casting does have some disadvantages.

1. Very large models are harder to do. This is somewhat true with spincasters as well - but I know from trying to cast an entire dragon body you are much better of doing these things in pieces. Not something that's likely to come up this time around.

2. Enclosed loops are generally a no go. The mold will rarely fill an enclosed loop. If you think of a spoked wagon wheel - that's a good example of what I'm talking about. It's just tough to get the pewter to fill the whole loop.

3. If your model sticks far out on a different axis, especially with an undercut, it will require cutting it apart and making a multi-part model. Take a look of some of those old chainmail figures or the new privateer press multi-piece models to see example of what I mean.

Don't let this limit you at all. I believe I could drop cast almost anything Reaper has on the market right now for instance. Would it look as sharp and detailed? 
Not to the expert eye, but it would be darn close. 

I have been casting miniatures using these methods since 1994 or so. I have not done much of it in the last three years, so I'm looking forward to picking up the old insulated gloves once again.


----------



## Alf (Aug 17, 2005)

By the way. Just participated in the FU!UK! sculpting contest were everything was to be very hush hush because of judging and soforth. All entries being anonymous and so forth. I suffered quite badly by it.
Hope this will be "out in the open" with input and suggestions along the way. I like that type of group effort MUCH better


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 17, 2005)

Alf,
This is an OPEN project.  We want to see your works in progress and if you would like tips, suggestions, etc, all you have to do is ask.

The purpose of this is to have fun and end up with everyone's creative work in your hands at the end of the project.
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
On that topic:
I have several ideas and I need input.

1.  Would anyone mind if I did 2 sculpts?  I want to do a wizard or something and I want to do something less common.
2.  If I were to do a Wizard, the idea I have is a dwarf or gnome wizard.  What do you think?
3.  If I were to do something less common, the idea I have is a clockwork kind of thing.  Sort of a clockwork golem of some sort.

Let me know and I'll start working on some concept sketches.
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Phanboy (Aug 17, 2005)

I was actually running the I dea of a clock work golem through my head as well... or some clockwork familiars...


----------



## pogre (Aug 18, 2005)

Phanboy said:
			
		

> I was actually running the I dea of a clock work golem through my head as well... or some clockwork familiars...




I really like both those ideas.

I totally agree with nyrf about keeping this open, positive, and fun for all!


----------



## Dog Soldier (Aug 18, 2005)

I was thinking of making a golem/construct of some type myself. Great minds think alike right? Maybe later this week or next week I can get started on something.


----------



## Alf (Aug 18, 2005)

I've got this conceptsketch of a cyborg using live babies for batteries. Quite nightmarish.  But maybe it's to science fiction like?


----------



## Gospog (Aug 19, 2005)

Hi.  I'm sorry I found this so late.  Can anyone point me to the thread listing rules for this event and other details?

I would love to participate (schedule permitting).

Thanks.

Tom


----------



## pogre (Aug 19, 2005)

Gospog said:
			
		

> Hi.  I'm sorry I found this so late.  Can anyone point me to the thread listing rules for this event and other details?
> 
> I would love to participate (schedule permitting).
> 
> ...




Please do! Here's the original thread. You will notice this project is remarkably "rules-lite."


----------



## copperdragon0 (Aug 21, 2005)

Well I guess I'll get the ball rolling on this with some concept sketches.  I always look to the darker side of things and decided to try a liche figure and maybe some necromantic items.  I am shooting for an elvish appearance on the liche.  The other items I have there are a bookstand and spellbook and a crow familiar hanging about on partial skeletons.  I'll probably go for more details on the liche than what is drawn and also may detach the arm holding the staff for easier casting(depending on pogre's thoughts).  I would also probably make the spellbook and stand 2 peice (book and hands 1 peice, arms and feet 2nd) for ease of casting.  I'm not sure how this will turn out for me as I have not done more than modifications before, but I'm always up for a challenge.  Good luck to the rest of you and may you sculpting go well!


----------



## pogre (Aug 22, 2005)

copperdragon0 - 

I really, really like the book stand - very cool idea. The rest is very thematic and cool too. 

Don't limit yourself too much on account of the casting - I can figure a way to do most things, so just have fun!

Thanks for kickstarting this!


----------



## Shape D. (Aug 22, 2005)

I'm thinking of doing an alchemy set but that sould require several smaller pieces instead of one. would that be ok, or should I stick to single piece items.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 23, 2005)

Hey Gang!
I'm back from Gencon and itching to sculpt... Unfortunately, I have a business trip the rest of the week.  AARRGGG.
CopperDragon:  I love the concepts.  I think they'd be great mini's.

Shape D:  If you want to sculpt a few small items go ahead and make them. If Pogre pops in and says that won't work, you'll still have them in green stuff for yourself and they are great for practice.

I think I'll start with a wizard for the lab.  Once that's done, I'll decide if I want to go ahead with a second sculpt.
I also need to post some more in my 'how to' thread. 
I hope to have a free weekend soon that I can devote to some picture taking and stuff.



Talk to everyone soon.
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## pogre (Aug 23, 2005)

Shape D. said:
			
		

> I'm thinking of doing an alchemy set but that sould require several smaller pieces instead of one. would that be ok, or should I stick to single piece items.




Not a problem for me.

Nyrf - Did you go to any the sculpting seminars? I saw the sculpting list was having a get together too. Do tell!


----------



## pogre (Aug 23, 2005)

To show I'm not slacking here is my concept for my sorceress so far. It's not done. I'm open to suggestions to make her more magical. 

PS - I know she's a bit cheesecake - my wife already pointed this out, but I like cheesecake


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 23, 2005)

Just to make everyone jealous...  Here is a quick GenCon report from Nyrfherdr.

I only played in 1 RPG game!!!    
I played a couple of late night Warmachine games (Thurs and Saturday)
I spent Friday night chatting with professional sculptors. (Sandra Garrity, Gene Van Horne, Bobby Jackson and a few others.)
I attended 2 sculpting seminars (both on faces under the tutelage of Gene and Bobby)
I couldn't get into the others, but I learned a ton in both of them and the Friday night session.
I did 2 speed painting competitions.  I placed second both times.  No championship bragging rights for me.   
I practiced some wet blending painting techniques under the watchful eyes of the Reaper staff painters.  Turned out OK.

I'm now frantically trying to prepare my presentation for a very large Hotel chain that will mean several million in revenue for my company.  What am I doing posting on ENWorld?

I hope to get a concept sketch done on the plane ride (after the batteries on my laptop die)
I'll post it this weekend.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 23, 2005)

Pogre,
Nice concept sketch.  It will have plenty of 'artistic value'.
To make it more magical:  Draw some concepts of magical staffs.  The ones in the DMG are all very unique takes on what a staff could look like.  You might consider having her floating on a cloud or flames or something.  A magical motif on her necklace and belt possibly.
Maybe some bracers with the same motif on them.  Ask any woman... Accessorize! (sp?)

Catch you guys later.
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## hwoolsey (Aug 23, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> A magical motif on her necklace and belt possibly.




Talk about a Freudian slip! After looking at Pogre's concept art I read nyrf's suggestion as "A magical motif on her necklace and *belly* possibly."

Hank


----------



## Alf (Aug 23, 2005)

I just got busy sculpting for a real job! That came as quite a surprise  

I'll still try to find time for this though. The theme for the other one is a football team. Not close to the subject matter by a long shot


----------



## pogre (Aug 24, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> You might consider having her floating on a cloud or flames or something.




Bingo - flames - I love flames!

The Sorceress of  Conflagration!


----------



## pogre (Aug 24, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> I just got busy sculpting for a real job! That came as quite a surprise
> 
> I'll still try to find time for this though. The theme for the other one is a football team. Not close to the subject matter by a long shot




If your job will allow you to - post one of your football sculpts. I have a special place in my heart for football!


----------



## Alf (Aug 24, 2005)

I'm making a testsculpt now. After that - if they're still interested - I've set myself a dedline of one and a half months for eight outplayers and two goalkeepers. In that case you won't have to wait all that long. Should they NOT be interested I'll gladly put up the testsculpt anywhere


----------



## pogre (Aug 24, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> I'm making a testsculpt now. After that - if they're still interested - I've set myself a dedline of one and a half months for eight outplayers and two goalkeepers. In that case you won't have to wait all that long. Should they NOT be interested I'll gladly put up the testsculpt anywhere




Oh! That kind of football - I apologize for assuming you meant American Football, which I coach. We call it soccer here in the heartland, but I forget most of the world calls it, appropriately enough, football.


----------



## Alf (Aug 24, 2005)

Oh...

Well, I'm just a poor Swede me. English aint even my first language. Though I'm aware of the American terminology now that you mention it.
Sorry 'bout the misunderstanding.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 25, 2005)

OK Everyone!  I was hoping to see a few more concept sketches.
If you don't want to do a concept sketch (some people don't).  You should at least have some reference photos or artwork.  It really does help to have something to refer back to.

I've got my first concept sketch done.  I can't post it because I'm on a business trip (currently posting from my hotel room.)
I should be able to get it up here this weekend.

Just to get the creative juices flowing, let me describe what I'm working on:

I have done a sculpt in the past of a swashbuckling sorcerer with a mechanical arm/prosthesis. (you can see him next to a WIP in my latest post on my miniature thread)


I've taken that idea and expanded and re-envisioned it.  
The concept is a Wizard with a mustache and goatee and a balding head but long hair in the back.
He'll have a vest and pants with lots of pouches.
He'll have a mechanical arm.

I'm still messing with the 'live' arm and what to do with it.  Maybe have it holding a tool or a wand or something.

I've also sketched a mechanical 'familiar' for him.  If you've seen the Iron Kingdoms Servitors you'll know where I'm headed.  Since it will be something that Pogre will be replicating, I'll either ask permission or change the concept sketch more to make it unique.

So... There you go.  I hope that inspires more people to participate.
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## pogre (Aug 26, 2005)

> I've taken that idea and expanded and re-envisioned it.
> The concept is a Wizard with a mustache and goatee and a balding head but long hair in the back.
> He'll have a vest and pants with lots of pouches.
> He'll have huge pythons for arms and a yellow ripped shirt that says Hulkamania.




Whoa!    


Just having a little fun. I'm in the throes of football season, so sadly I will be checking in a little less. First game tomorrow against the 8th ranked team in the state!


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 28, 2005)

Hmmm.  Hulkamania.  I'll give that a try.

Here's my Concept Sketch




Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 28, 2005)

OK everyone!  I've added my concept sketch.  Let's see what Ideas you are working on.
You can post links to the artwork you are inspired by, your own sketches.  Anything to keep everyone motivated.

I'm looking forward to seeing everyone's great ideas!

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Alf (Aug 28, 2005)

ehrrm. How do you link pictures to show up like yours did?   

Meanwhile, here's a link to some of my work. 

http://f2.pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vierth/my_photos

Check under "greens" and "Working process".
Perhaps it will inspire someone. Especially the "working process" were I have documented how I take pictures of the pose (Or rather, ask my wife to take pictures of ME in the pose   ), make "blockdrawings" and a very rough sculpey sketch before even starting on the actual sculpture. There are also some step by step pics on the sculpt even though they are sadly without comments.
The theme for that sculpt is Lovecraftian WWI so has no bearing on this but perhaps as inspiration it works OK?


----------



## Dog Soldier (Aug 29, 2005)

Well I haven't forgotten about this project. Just having trouble finding time to get started and buy some materials. 

Anyways here's my idea for my project. The Siege Breaker Golem. I'll keep him kinda small about the size of a GW Space Marine.(Don't wanna put pogre in the poor house casting this stuff.  ) 

The head will have a mono-eye like a Zaku or Dom mobile suit from Gundam and be armored.   
It's torso will have an energy crystal in the middle of it and be armored.
The right arm will have a three fingered hand and carry a large hammer.
The right left arm will have a ballista either mounted on the forearm or it will be the arm.
And the whole thing will be armor plated and covered in rivets.

I should probly sketch this but I can't draw and don't have ready access to a scaner.


----------



## pogre (Aug 29, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Hmmm.  Hulkamania.  I'll give that a try.
> 
> Here's my Concept Sketch
> 
> ...




Sorry I hijacked your earlier post, but let me say this dude has an uncanny resemblence to one of my players. I cannot wait to see your execution - very cool concept.



			
				Alf said:
			
		

> Meanwhile, here's a link to some of my work.



You're talented Alf - I have to bear down and plod along with the knowledge my work will pale by comparison. But you got to crawl before you can walk...



			
				Dog Soldier said:
			
		

> The Siege Breaker Golem.



Sounds great - you guys have some great ideas. Me and my mundane cheesecake


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 29, 2005)

Well...  I figured it was time to show some sculpting on this thread.
I made it back from my business trip and the family decided to just take it easy this weekend.  It gave me time to take some pictures and do a little sculpting.

(I even took a couple of hours to assemble some of the new mini's I got at GenCon)

Anyway... Here is the head of the Mechanical Wizard.  I'm sorry the photos are a little blurry.  It appears that I wasn't zoomed in enough, so when I cropped the photo, it got blurry.  You get the gist though.  When I take my next set of photos, I'll see if I can improve the clarity.

Wizard based on previous concept sketch:


----------



## Alf (Aug 29, 2005)

Can't seem to get this direct link thingy to work.  :\ 
Anway, I've uploaded a conceptsketch here:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vierth/detail?.dir=/28d3&.dnm=bb87.jpg&.src=ph

And the sculpt in its present stage here:
http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/vierth/detail?.dir=/28d3&.dnm=d1a3.jpg&.src=ph

As you can see there is a piece of wire sticking out and connecting to the base from the upraised arm. This is just for sculpting support and will be clipped of leaving just the corner of the dropped book as support for the figure. This will increase the illusion that the little imps/familiars are actually flying away with the hapless wizard.
The eyes have actually been made with andrea sculp (if you wonder about the whiteness). Only reason for that is that I had just bought a pack of this hitherto untried material and wanted to try it out.

Edit: by the way, nyrfherdr, that head seems to come along fine. Like the mechanical eye. It will be exciting to see what will become of the mechanical arm and ball joint shoulder. Personally I find mechanical parts real hard to sculpt because they have to be perfect to look mechanical, otherwise they'll have more of an organic feel to them.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Aug 29, 2005)

Alf:  Thanks!
Your concept rocks on toast!  What a great idea.
Your wizard already looks mighty good too.  Way to make progress fast.

I hope the rest of you can show us some of your work soon.  I'm really having fun sharing and working together.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Alf (Aug 29, 2005)

Dog Soldier said:
			
		

> I should probly sketch this but I can't draw and don't have ready access to a scaner.




I don't think a conceptsketch is strictly necessary for a good sculpt though it helps a bit. 
As you can see I can't sketch all that much either but if you'd like a rough conceptsketch based on your desription to work from perhaps I could offer what little help I can?
Just if you want to.

Nyrfherdr, Sorry I'm afraid my progress rate is not as great as it seems. I started this sculpt about half a year ago and it's been lying about in this stage. The theme for this project though is a great excuse to finally get round to finishing it.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 1, 2005)

Hey gang, 
I hope everyone is enjoying their projects.  I've been motivated to get a bunch done because I'll be travelling again soon and won't be able to work on anything.

You've seen the wizard's head in some blurry shots.  When taking some other photos, I tried again.  This time with better results.

Once again, the face of my wizard not so blurry this time...
















Here is the body of the wizard (under construction)




Here is a mechanical assistant (under construction)




I hope this is getting people excited about their own Wizard's lab project.
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## D'karr (Sep 1, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Hey gang,
> I hope everyone is enjoying their projects.  I've been motivated to get a bunch done because I'll be travelling again soon and won't be able to work on anything.
> 
> You've seen the wizard's head in some blurry shots.  When taking some other photos, I tried again.  This time with better results.
> ...




I was so excited that I ran out of Green Stuff... LOL

More on order and arriving tomorrow.  Your photos are inspiring.  I hope to have some photos after kneadtite arrives.


----------



## pogre (Sep 1, 2005)

I'll be out of circulation for a while. Yesterday our 4th child was born:
Keegan Thomas Pogue
He weighed 10 lbs. 7ozs. and was 21.5" long.
A Baby picture


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 1, 2005)

CONGRATULATIONS KEITH!
Great looking kid.  

We'll hold down the fort for awhile.  Take care and keep checking the web site anyway.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## D'karr (Sep 1, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> I'll be out of circulation for a while. Yesterday our 4th child was born:
> Keegan Thomas Pogue
> He weighed 10 lbs. 7ozs. and was 21.5" long.
> A Baby picture




Congratulations.  Big Fella, isn't he?


----------



## Alf (Sep 2, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> I'll be out of circulation for a while. Yesterday our 4th child was born:
> Keegan Thomas Pogue
> He weighed 10 lbs. 7ozs. and was 21.5" long.
> A Baby picture




CONGRATULATIONS!
We've settled for three (I think - but one never knows   )
Cute kid!


----------



## D'karr (Sep 2, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> CONGRATULATIONS!
> We've settled for three (I think - but one never knows   )
> Cute kid!




Heh, we had settled for three until the 4th one sneaked in under the radar...


----------



## D'karr (Sep 3, 2005)

Well, I love TheWarStore.  Check them out at TheWarStore.com

My green stuff arrived quicker than quick.  Their service was fantastic.  Their prices were very competitive and their shipping was awesome.  They also waive shipping on orders of $75 or more for those of you that go over budget, like me.

Now back to sculpting.  I'm having a crisis of motivation.  This is fun stuff, but man is it tough work.

I took a hiatus to start building an observatory for my Eberron game.  Photos to follow soon.


----------



## pogre (Sep 4, 2005)

D'karr said:
			
		

> Heh, we had settled for three until the 4th one sneaked in under the radar...




ditto.

Thanks for the well-wishes


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 6, 2005)

Hey gang,
I'm finding it difficult to stop sculpting, set up my 'photo area' and take pictures.  
I have these photos, but then I did some sculpting last night and forgot to take pictures.
I'll take some photos this week and see what I can get posted.


Wizard's Helper (WIP):








Wizard's body (WIP):








I hope to see some of you find a way to post pictures.  I'd love to see what you are working on.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Patrick Keith (Sep 7, 2005)

Hey all!

I just now found out about this and would like to sign up also. I have previously done work mainly in Super Sculpey never having much luck with the greenstuff until just recently. Getting past the "bubblegum" factor was quite a hurdle.   

Anyway - if there's room for one more I will work up a concept and post some sketches this week!


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 7, 2005)

Patrick, 
We're happy to have you.  This really is just a way to have fun and hopefully inspire more people to give sculpting a try.
If you meet the deadline for submission to Pogre, then you get a bonus of some sculpts in metal.

We'd love to see your stuff.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## pogre (Sep 8, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Game ON!
> Nyrfherdr




Is that a Reaper advanced dolly?


----------



## Alf (Sep 8, 2005)

What is the point of dollys? I've really never understood this. Twisting up an armature from a piece of copper wire and bending it into shape is about three minutes work. I don't dislike dollys or anything I've just never understood the point?


----------



## D'karr (Sep 8, 2005)

Well, for me, the point of an advanced dolly is that I don't have to "fill" as much filler space as with a copper wire.

With a basic dolly you still have to "fill" as much.  So yeah, a basic dolly I don't need to use, an advanced dolly, is a godsend.  At least for me.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 8, 2005)

Hey everyone,
I'm using an armature (pre-made) that I purchased from Jeff Valent studios.  It is similar to the Reaper advanced dolly.

Alf:  The dolly provides 2 purposes from my perspective.
       1.  It insures that your armature is in proportion.  It leaves no quesswork.
       2.  As D'Karr mentioned it helps to include more 'stuff' in your undercarriage that you don't have to fill with green stuff.

It does provide a couple of challenges too.
       1.  They are proportioned for human anatomy (no dwarves, halflings, etc)
       2.  They can be difficult to mount/handle when sculpting I've had arms break off, etc.

I don't use a dolly all of the time, but for this project, I was sculpting a human, had one available in the right scale and launched.  It's something us amatuer sculptors use.  

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Dog Soldier (Sep 8, 2005)

*The Golem has a head.*

Congrats on the new little one Pogre.   

Here is all I've gotten done. It's just a start, I still need to add details to it.

Fear my webcam-fu.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 8, 2005)

Hey Dog Soldier.  Nice start.  Those space marines are looking a little tired though   

Keep it coming...

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 25, 2005)

Anyone make any more progress?


----------



## D'karr (Sep 25, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Anyone make any more progress?




Yes, I've made some progress.  Not enough to be proud of but more than if we didn't have this challenge going on.

Here is a piece of my concept art, better than stick figures not Todd Lockwood by a longshot... LOL

I also added some of the progress on the sculpts.  The snake has to be textured.  The warforged legs are going to need sharper definition.

I never thought sculpting would be this difficult.  It's a lot of fun though.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 26, 2005)

Looking good D'Karr.  Nice to see some progress.
I have another business trip this week, but I hope to take a few photos soon.
I'll pop in with a photo by this weekend, if all goes as planned.
(I'm mostly done with the wizard.  I just have to complete one step.)

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Patrick Keith (Sep 27, 2005)

Well, I missed the whole "post some sketches" thing because I got tied up with a commission. I couldn't come up with any ideas either so I described the theme to my wife and she suggested doing a spellbook.

So - here's my spellbook. Sorry I didn't get any "in progress" shots of this one.

And I'm doing this for another contest:
Pirate Girl 1
Pirate Girl 2
Pirate Girl 3


----------



## Alf (Sep 27, 2005)

Have you ever seen the book "Drawing and Painting Fantasy Figures" by Finlay Cowan. I just bought it and he has a female evil Genie coming out of a spellbook much like in your sculpt. Your "Genie" seems much more benign though. Beautiful work.

Me I'm in a slump. I feel quite reluctant right now to return to an old sculpt even if I like it. I'll just see if I can come up with something completely different. I still like the "illusion of flying" thing. Perhaps something simpler like a wizard playing with a ball of fire with the ball floating between his hands (In reality of course being fastened to a pin attached to his (or her) chest?


----------



## D'karr (Sep 27, 2005)

Patrick Keith said:
			
		

> Well, I missed the whole "post some sketches" thing because I got tied up with a commission. I couldn't come up with any ideas either so I described the theme to my wife and she suggested doing a spellbook.
> 
> So - here's my spellbook. Sorry I didn't get any "in progress" shots of this one.
> 
> ...




LOL, why do I even bother???  Back to stickmen it is....  

Fantastic job Patrick.


----------



## Patrick Keith (Sep 27, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> Have you ever seen the book "Drawing and Painting Fantasy Figures" by Finlay Cowan?




Check on page 71. My Spider Queen sculpture is featured there.  

Thanks for all the feedback! I'm still learning this stuff too!


----------



## nyrfherdr (Sep 28, 2005)

D'karr,
Don't be discouraged.  You are off to a great start.  Keep at it.  Your forms are fine.
All it takes is practice.
One of the things I was planning to do in my 'how to' thread is show a bunch of my sculpts pointing out the flaws I see now that they are done. Of course, I'm painfully aware of all of the flaws, but pointing them out helps people spot problem areas in their own work.

We all started right where you are, with some green stuff and an idea.

Patrick:  Nice work on the spellbook and the pirate girl.  Very impressive.
Alf:  I have that book too.  I enjoyed it quite a bit.

I'm still on the road, but will take some photos this weekend of my WIP.
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## D'karr (Sep 28, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> D'karr,
> Don't be discouraged.  You are off to a great start.  Keep at it.  Your forms are fine.
> All it takes is practice.
> One of the things I was planning to do in my 'how to' thread is show a bunch of my sculpts pointing out the flaws I see now that they are done. Of course, I'm painfully aware of all of the flaws, but pointing them out helps people spot problem areas in their own work.
> ...




Oh, I'm not discouraged.  That was posted in jest.

This is my first sculpting work from "scratch."  Most of my sculpting work has been in conversion, modifications and gap filling.  Seeing something like Patrick posted just shows how far I have to go.

I've found this challenge a good excuse to do something I'd probably never have tried otherwise.  The deadline is long enough that it gives novices like myself a chance to work through the "hard" parts.  I've found that sculpting is much harder than it seems.  Working with "green stuff" is also different than something like clay or stone, for example.  The additive nature of the medium is "weird."  You don't sculpt a cape, as an example.  You sculpt a small thin strip.  You let it harden and then add more.  Lather, rinse, repeat.

The process is just "unnatural" for a novice.

However, it's been lots of fun.


----------



## Patrick Keith (Sep 28, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> I'm painfully aware of all of the flaws, but pointing them out helps people spot problem areas in their own work.




  Man - and there's a ton of them on the Spellbook thing. The hands are thick and pudgy, there are visible creases  where the different stages didn't blend well together, the dress is blobbed up at the back and creases are not as unifom and sharp as they should be and the hair is rather nondescript.

Actually D'karr, the Warforged progress is looking really good! The separation on the toes and joints are well proportioned. I find that if you let the putty sit after you stick it to the armature until it stiffens a bit it gives a sharper edge when to work it back and forth along all the planes. Greenstuff IS wierd to work with and I would never use it to sculpt anything if it weren't for the vulcanizing process.

Everybody's stuff is coming along really well! Looking forward to more updates.


----------



## Alf (Sep 28, 2005)

Patrick Keith said:
			
		

> Check on page 71. My Spider Queen sculpture is featured there.
> 
> Thanks for all the feedback! I'm still learning this stuff too!





Heh. I knew I had seen it on SOMEONES homepage. Didn't remember it was yours


----------



## pogre (Sep 30, 2005)

1st - Patrick K. - great job.

2nd - I suck. I just carved a couple of hours of work off of my model AGAIN because I suck. I'm a lil' frustrated tonight...

Can you tell?


----------



## D'karr (Sep 30, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> 1st - Patrick K. - great job.
> 
> 2nd - I suck. I just carved a couple of hours of work off of my model AGAIN because I suck. I'm a lil' frustrated tonight...
> 
> Can you tell?




I know what you mean Pogre.  I've felt the same way, many times throughout this project.  Now I take the Zen approach to sculpting...    

I made a little more progress last night.  I sculpted some more "utensils" for the wizard's table.  After I went to bed, I actually dreamt about how to sculpt an open book.  Very weird.

I had to start on another warforged wizard because the pose on the first one was not what I was looking for and as I tried to move the armature around I noticed that it would be less work if I just started from scratch again.  So now, I have one Warforged that will be used as a wizard and if I get a chance I'll try to sculpt the second one as a bodyguard of sorts.

The table accesories are coming around nicely.  The table itself has me perplexed at the moment.  I'm trying to duplicate the look of a wooden table made of wood slats.  Well, I was able to create a flat surface but when I try to create the slats the green stuff is too "rubbery".

Do I have to change my ratio of yellow to blue to get a softer more malleable mixture?  What should the ratio be?  Currently I'm using 1:1 yellow to blue.  It starts out very sticky at the beginning but cures very quickly into a rubbery consistency.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 2, 2005)

Hey everyone,

I've finished the Wizard's mechanical assistant.
Here is the green.
Completed Servitor:








I'm pretty darn close to finishing the wizard.  I'm a little stuck.  I need to decide if something should go in his hand and if so, what.  I could use some input. (I can't guarantee I'll take your advice, but I'll consider it.  )

Wizard (WIP)












Game ON!
nyrfherdr


----------



## Alf (Oct 3, 2005)

D'karr said:
			
		

> Now I take the Zen approach to sculpting...




Heh. I'm actually a practicing zen-buddhist, member of the Cloudwater Sangha. I devote about one hour a day to zazen and forty minutes to Kata practice.

Not sure if this helps in sculpting though  :\


----------



## Patrick Keith (Oct 3, 2005)

D'karr said:
			
		

> Do I have to change my ratio of yellow to blue to get a softer more malleable mixture?  What should the ratio be?  Currently I'm using 1:1 yellow to blue.  It starts out very sticky at the beginning but cures very quickly into a rubbery consistency.




You may like to read some of the comments posted on the Reaper Minis Forum about battling the greenstuff properties. In doing something like a table you may have to break it up into parts. Like, do just the tabletop part first. Mix up a batch, let it set for a bit to firm up a little and then flatten it out on a piece of polyethelene plastic (like the stuff it comes wrapped in) to keep it from sticking. Once it cures, you can add another thin layer on the top to work in your woodgrain, slats or other textures. Then you could do the legs in the same stages and then assemble it all afterwards.

The wizard progress is looking good Nyrf, I like how the mechanical bits are turning out.


----------



## D'karr (Oct 3, 2005)

Patrick Keith said:
			
		

> You may like to read some of the comments posted on the Reaper Minis Forum about battling the greenstuff properties. In doing something like a table you may have to break it up into parts. Like, do just the tabletop part first. Mix up a batch, let it set for a bit to firm up a little and then flatten it out on a piece of polyethelene plastic (like the stuff it comes wrapped in) to keep it from sticking. Once it cures, you can add another thin layer on the top to work in your woodgrain, slats or other textures. Then you could do the legs in the same stages and then assemble it all afterwards.
> 
> The wizard progress is looking good Nyrf, I like how the mechanical bits are turning out.




Thanks for the info and the link Patrick.  This matter will definitely be researched some more.

I was able to do some more sculpting this weekend and all the Wizard's Table accesories have been created.  Some of them are really cool looking, others are in a style I'd call "cubist."  Let's just say Picasso never had this much fun...    

The Wizard is coming around nicely and his bodyguard too.  I sculpted a head for one of the warforged to try and figure out how to do them.  It came out a little too big.  Let's just say, it would be like having a human sized torso with a watermelon for a head...    

Fortunately that experiment was done away from the mini so I don't have to decapitate anyone yet.

Nyrf, fantastic sculpt.  I must second Patrick's comments, I like the mechanical bits.  As for suggestion for what to put in his hand, "A Tea Cup."  His assistant is giving him tea...

Oh, I've come up with a title for my sculpt, Warforged wizard gives a helping hand.  Make of it what you will.

This whole project has taught me a lot.  I actually really enjoy sculpting.  It is a challenging pursuit but it is so much fun to see the little green men come "alive."  Very, very cool and something that I will continue to do now.

Nyrf and Pogre, thanks for putting this "challenge" together.


----------



## pogre (Oct 3, 2005)

Dang it!!!


----------



## Shape D. (Oct 3, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> Dang it!!!



I guess that means youre in the same boat I am.   

On a brighter note though I just got the sculpting tools I ordered today. So now maye I can make something that doesn't look like poo. 

what sucks is I now have less than a month to fufill my part o' the bargan.


----------



## pogre (Oct 4, 2005)

That's pretty much my sculpting mantra...

dang it - dang it - dang it!


----------



## D'karr (Oct 4, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> That's pretty much my sculpting mantra...
> 
> dang it - dang it - dang it!




 

That was my mantra as I started this project too.  It's funny how frustrating this stuff can be.  The worst part is when you got one side of the miniature really nice and, because of ignorance, you start working on the other side and put a nice big thumb print on the work that you just finished....  AAARRRRGHHHH, Dang it!!!!!!!

Then I asked myself, "Why the hell are you doing this project?"

I figured out that it was to challenge myself but also to entertain myself.  I don't have to be as good as anyone else for this project.  I just have to do the best that I can in the time I have.  So with that new perspective I started again.  More peacefully, I might add.

Now I'm actually having a lot of fun as I do this.  I'm not really any better in the talent department and yes, there are still some frustrations as something doesn't look like you'd want it to.  However, overall I'm much more satisfied with how the project is progressing.

After all, Fear leads to Anger.  Anger leads to Hate.  Hate leads to suffering.  Suffering leads to the Dark Side...


----------



## D'karr (Oct 5, 2005)

*Metal Casting*

Okay, I think I've finished creating all of the accesories for the wizard's table.

Pogre, I have a question about casting.  All my accesories are separate entities.  For example if I have two bottles, they are separate elements.  When we send this project to you do you want us to "glue" the elements as if they were assembled or send this off as bits?

I was thinking that permanently placing some of the accesories on the table would end up creating some weird undercuts.  I've never cast anything so I have no experience on what kinds of arrangements would create more problems.  What is your advice on this?


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 5, 2005)

Congrats D'Karr.
Any photos to share?

I'll let Pogre respond on the casting, as I have no real world experience on that either.


----------



## D'karr (Oct 5, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Congrats D'Karr.
> Any photos to share?
> 
> I'll let Pogre respond on the casting, as I have no real world experience on that either.




Thanks for the congratulations.  I still have the table surface to "polish" and the warforged wizard and bodyguard are in various states of completion.  But the little bits are done, unless I keep getting ideas.

It's funny because most of these fiddly bits just started as some "extra" leftover green stuff.  You know, the stuff that is leftover after you've massacred your main sculpt...   

I'll try to have pictures before the end of the week.


----------



## pogre (Oct 5, 2005)

D'karr said:
			
		

> Pogre, I have a question about casting.  All my accesories are separate entities.  For example if I have two bottles, they are separate elements.  When we send this project to you do you want us to "glue" the elements as if they were assembled or send this off as bits?
> 
> I was thinking that permanently placing some of the accesories on the table would end up creating some weird undercuts.  I've never cast anything so I have no experience on what kinds of arrangements would create more problems.  What is your advice on this?




Leave it separate.


----------



## D'karr (Oct 8, 2005)

Okay, here is a picture of the accesories for the wizard's table.  The table you see here is a MageKnight game piece and not the one that will be part of the project.

There are further details that will be added to the arm and to the book.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 9, 2005)

Those are great D'Karr.  I really like them a lot.


----------



## pogre (Oct 9, 2005)

Very well done D'karr!


----------



## Patrick Keith (Oct 10, 2005)

D'karr, those accessories turned out great. I love the pliers and screwdriver! Nice touch for fiddling with Warforged gear.


----------



## Alf (Oct 10, 2005)

Very nice work!
Makes me feel like doing a wizard leaning against the table but you're allreay making one right?


----------



## D'karr (Oct 10, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> Very nice work!
> Makes me feel like doing a wizard leaning against the table but you're allreay making one right?




Thank you all for the praise.  Coming from you guys it means a lot.

Yes, I am making a warforged wizard.  I worked on him a little more last night.  Interestingly enough not everything is coming out as planned...     Hopefully when I'm done with him he will look like a warforged...   

Throughout this project I've found a new appreciation for those that do this kind of work professionally.  I particularly love the work from sculptors like Klocke, Garrity, Wiebe and Jackson.  However, I've found that now I "appreciate" the work that goes into even what we would consider "crappy" sculpts.  Never again will I look at a "crappy miniature" and think to myself, "Heck I can do something better!"  I've learned to appreciate the hard work that goes into even those miniatures.


----------



## Shape D. (Oct 11, 2005)

Change of plans for me. I'm starting to think that making items that should be smooth, round and symetrical is way too hard for a first sculpt. I've been trying to make Beakers, test tubes, a mortar and pestle, and a few other alchemy related items and getting them to look like somthing made of glass is a pain in the butt. 

New project (that I hopefully finish before the deadline) started last night: Goblin Mage.

I'm guessing something that can have a little texture to it should be a little easier to make without it looking like complete crap.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 11, 2005)

Sounds good Shape D.  Good luck.

I'm still messing around with the tool in the hand of my mage.
Game ON!
Nyrf


----------



## Alf (Oct 12, 2005)

For tool and hard edge stuff I'd recommend mixing magic sculp or Fimo into the green stuff. Then you can cut and file it after curing. Unless you have acces to brown stuff of course. I don't.
Here is another thing I'm working on. The Monkey wrench is done using that mixture (as you can see it hasn't been filed yet) also parts of the figure (where I want sharp edges) are done using that:





Seems to me I'll be forced to do something quick and simple. Past deadline on my job allready :-(. It's taking a bit longer than expected.
I'll try to knock up an alchemist or something though (would love to make a chinese taoist one...)


----------



## Alf (Oct 13, 2005)

OK. No conceptsketch but I've started on an alchemist. He's a bit yoda-like and asian inspired in clothing. I think I'll just call him a "gnome alchemist".
Don't know what size people expect gnomes to be but he's standing about the same height as a reaper halfling.
I'll keep him simple so I'll get him finished in time.
Edit:
OK, drew up a rough sketch:





And the sculpture after two hours of work (just the rough shape so far):





I'm thinking of adding the japanese character for "gold" (kin) on his cap and (if I find the time) the five elements of the chinese alchemy in a circle on his back. If not I'll just leave that to the painter.
The two circles on his robe will of course be yin-yang  

So - I'm back on track.


----------



## D'karr (Oct 13, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> OK. No conceptsketch but I've started on an alchemist. He's a bit yoda-like and asian inspired in clothing. I think I'll just call him a "gnome alchemist".
> Don't know what size people expect gnomes to be but he's standing about the same height as a reaper halfling.
> I'll keep him simple so I'll get him finished in time.
> Edit:
> ...




Congratulations.  I really like the sketch.  Man, I wish I could draw/sketch...  Stickman is the extent of my talents...  

You work a lot faster than I've been able to do.  I'm getting used to working with "green stuff" in two hours I could not get that much done.  Great start.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 13, 2005)

Alf: I love the Gnome.  He's coming along very nicely.

D'Karr:  I think you'll surprise yourself with a little more practice.  The key is to get used to the medium.  Remember that you don't have to use Greenstuff.  Even if you want your work cast into a pressure mold, there are other materials you can use.

It's funny.  I actually like working in Green stuff more than any of the 'clay like' products.  The only thing I have to remind myself to do is sharpen the details late in the cure, otherwise everything goes a little 'soft'.

Keep up the great work everyone.  I'm very impressed with all of the work I've seen so far.
Well done!

Game ON!
Nyrf


----------



## Alf (Oct 13, 2005)

And as the first day working on my little gnome ends we find it looking like this:




Added feet, worked some more on the robe and got started on the face.

and since my sons birthday is coming up and he loves the turtles I've been working a bit on a piece of fanart for him as well (but that's a real quickie) so far it looks like this:


----------



## D'karr (Oct 13, 2005)

That is looking very cool.


----------



## pogre (Oct 14, 2005)

Very cool Alf!

Well, my project hit the garbage tonight. I just continued to have difficulties and lost patience with the whole thing. I'm working on a fresh design - completely different from the cheesecake wizard I had been working on. I will post pics when it is done.


----------



## Alf (Oct 14, 2005)

D'karr said:
			
		

> Congratulations.  I really like the sketch.  Man, I wish I could draw/sketch...  Stickman is the extent of my talents...




I do my best. My offering from the beginning of this project is still there. Should anyone want a conceptsketch (a quick one mind) done from description to work from they'll just have to ask me and I'll do my best  

Current state of the gnome:





And back:





I figure it will be easier to sculpt the hand holding the flask in this position and THEN bend it in towards the body. Any resulting undercuts will be filled in with scrolls or pouches 
The flask was done separately on a flat surface with an "armature" of a brass tubing about 0,5 mm thick. and I will round and even the bottom of it somewhat.
The reason for the black spots on it is that I did a circle with a pen that kept colouring the clay. I then used that circle as guideline for sculpting the flask to get it as even as I could.

I really should have done both ears before putting the cap on but I just couldn't wait to see how he would look with cap


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 14, 2005)

Very cool Alf.  
Pogre:  Don't sweat it.  If I'm frustrated with a sculpt I move on too.  There are several 'unfinished' works that I suspect I will never get back to.  And I've tossed a few in the trash too.  I actually avoid that, but I've done it.

I hope everyone will have something to send to Pogre by the 1st.  I know I will.  I have to complete the tool in my Wizard's hand and I'll call him done.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Alf (Oct 15, 2005)

Update:





Bushy eyebrows are a must for any selfrespecting wizard - besides I have them, to the point were my wife wants to bring out scissors and trim them    (I - of course - refuse   )

More work on the hand will be done - don't worry   
There are to many undercuts to cover up so instead I will clip of both hands for separate casting. Since the two flasks will be connected through the fluid being poured between them I think both hands and flasks can be cast as one piece with holes in the sleeves for inserting them.
I'm wondering about the boots though. The upward pointing toes will produce a slight undercut but since they are at an angle from each other that may be avoided through setting the moldline in the right angle.

I will make the Kanji in raised relief in fimo-magic sculp mix since the whiteness will help me see the very thin details better. I hope it will stick... 

I think I will have neither tag nor base on him since the robe and the big feet together will make him quite stable anyway.

Sorry about the lousy quality of the pics. For the finishing stages I'll try to borrow a camera with a better macro function than mine.

Edit: I forgot to mention: The beltends that hang down would become a HUGE undercut if I just let them hang so on this pic you can see that I've built them up right through the wole width of the figure so it will all become one solid, easily castable, block.

Edit again: I will also add a turtle familiar - ancient chinese symbol of immortality.


----------



## pogre (Oct 17, 2005)

Post 100 to let you know I got my order of new tin in today. I'm going to cook up some pewter later this week in preparation. 

Please have your projects in the mail to me by November 1st and post on this thread when they are on their way.

Thanks,

pogre


----------



## Shape D. (Oct 17, 2005)

Oooooooo...... Its a hot thread now. Red planet and everything.


So apperently without my knowledge my Goblin Wizard decided to cast an Enlarge spell on himself without any forewarning given to myself. I think he's evil. I'm just wondering how he cast the spell without hands or a head.  :\


----------



## Alf (Oct 18, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> Post 100 to let you know I got my order of new tin in today. I'm going to cook up some pewter later this week in preparation.
> 
> Please have your projects in the mail to me by November 1st and post on this thread when they are on their way.
> 
> ...




Please bear in mind that I'm from Sweden. If I post 1st of november you'll probably have to wait one or two weeks until my sculpt arrives. This probably goes for other european participants as well (any?)  So if you intend to cast them all at the same time, please don't rush it with the preparations


----------



## pogre (Oct 18, 2005)

Alf said:
			
		

> Please bear in mind that I'm from Sweden. If I post 1st of november you'll probably have to wait one or two weeks until my sculpt arrives. This probably goes for other european participants as well (any?)  So if you intend to cast them all at the same time, please don't rush it with the preparations




I'll cast them in groups - should not be a problem. Just make sure you post on here when you send it - so I at least know it's on the way. Thanks.


----------



## Alf (Oct 19, 2005)

Just posted my job with the football (soccer) players. I should be relieved but right now I feel like the worst sculptor in the world and probably will until I get my verdict  from the customer


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 20, 2005)

Keep your chin up Alf.  You do good work.

I've got my calendar marked!
I can't wait to see what all these greens look like in Pewter.
thanks for doing this Pogre!  It is really cool.
I hope to take a few photos this weekend of my final work.  I'll post on Sunday (if all goes well).


----------



## D'karr (Oct 20, 2005)

I'll be travelling back home for an emergency this weekend so I'll be incommunicado until Tuesday.

I'll try to post after I return.


----------



## Alf (Oct 21, 2005)

Phew! Customer satisfied. Now I can breathe again     (and finish the gnome)


----------



## pogre (Oct 22, 2005)

Congrats Alf! Cannot wait to see your final project.


----------



## deltadave (Oct 26, 2005)

Out of curiosity, why use sculpey or greenstuff instead of wax?


----------



## pogre (Oct 26, 2005)

deltadave said:
			
		

> Out of curiosity, why use sculpey or greenstuff instead of wax?




I've never used wax.

As for the industry, naturally wax does not hold up under vulcanization.

For RTV I don't think it would be a problem - but I do not honestly know.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 26, 2005)

Deltadave:
The other reason for using a permanent medium, is that it is permanent.
I sculpt individual miniatures for my own enjoyment and use.  They would not stand up to painting and gaming if they were made of wax.

Sculpey, Green stuff, Magic Sculpt, Apoxie Sculpt and others provide that permanency for me.
(the side benefit is that they could be used to replicate if I choose to ever do that.)

In addition, a lot of sculptors have to ship their work to be cast.  I'm not sure how a wax sculpt would hold up in shipment.

Just some ramblings from the nyrfherdr...
Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## nyrfherdr (Oct 26, 2005)

Pogre et al,

I've boxed up and shipped my sculpts (The wizard with a mechanical arm) and his mechanical assistant.  I neglected to photograph the final wizard green.  It's too late now since it is in the mail.

I'll take a photo when I get it back. 

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## D'karr (Oct 27, 2005)

I returned late last night from a last minute trip home and I'm definitely behind on my sculpting project.  I'll try my best to send this off by the deadline.  It will be very tight.

All the accesories are completed.  The table stands at 10% completed and the Warforged wizard is at about 30% completed.  There will be some wacky sculpting going on over the next few days.

Before I send this off I'll post some pictures of everything.


----------



## Alf (Oct 28, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> Deltadave:
> The other reason for using a permanent medium, is that it is permanent.
> Nyrfherdr




Well - not quite. None of my soccerplayers survived the mastercasting completely intact but then again now I've got the masters so that's OK. I'm supposed to get casts in the mail today   (nudes - next step is I'll dress them up and do faces - two for each figure).
Yay my first professional casts!!   

I had a discussion with a professional sculptor sculpting only in wax and she said she had no problems shipping. Must have been another type of wax than what I've tried. I don't use it because I find it fiddly to work with. Then again I might not have tried the right type of wax.
I believe some twenty to thirty years ago waxsculpting was much more common. 

On the gnome: Doing 1 x 1 mm Kanji in magic sculp/FIMO mix did unfortunately NOT stick but came of once it dried so I'll have to try another way. Otherwise more or less finished (turtle familiar added - peeking out from under the robes. Doing the turtle face in 0.5 x 0,3 mm was a bit of a hassle   ). I find the left hand (holding the bottle) a bit to big but will leave it at that or I'll never be done. I'll post some pics later.


----------



## deltadave (Oct 28, 2005)

So you use the masters made from greenstuff in play?  I assumed that you would cast them in pewter first, then prep and paint.  If that is the case, no wonder wax isn't a good medium of work... kind of hard to paint and gets melty if handled too much.


----------



## D'karr (Oct 29, 2005)

deltadave said:
			
		

> So you use the masters made from greenstuff in play?  I assumed that you would cast them in pewter first, then prep and paint.  If that is the case, no wonder wax isn't a good medium of work... kind of hard to paint and gets melty if handled too much.




Not all of us have the skill/talent/patience to make good castings of our work.  So making unique pieces is sometimes all we can do.    

This is my first sculpting project so maybe my next one will be learning how to make good molds for casting.


----------



## D'karr (Oct 31, 2005)

Down to the wire.  I guess I'll be working late tonight to finish this sucker off.


----------



## Alf (Oct 31, 2005)

I'm awfully sorry but I got sidetracked. Had so much fun doing faces that I left the gnome aside for now. I'll still finish him and cast him though. Unfortunately not in time for this   
I'll try to donate him. Since I feel uncomfortable accepting money for anything with a daoist or buddhist connotation (because I am zenbuddhist - a belief that owes almost as much to daoism as it  does to buddhism) I will donate him to any company who would accept him under the provisions that all profits go to emergency relief, starvation relief or similar efforts. 
Otherwise I'll just see to that he gets cast and handle the sales myself (under the same conditions) but I really wouldn't want the hassle.
I'll keep in touch with you all about what happens to the little guy.


----------



## Dog Soldier (Nov 1, 2005)

I don't belive I'll be getting my golem finished for this.  :\  I spent my spare time working on a mini for a minature exchange over at the Reaper Minis msg board.


----------



## D'karr (Nov 1, 2005)

*Working my ass off*

Okay, I'm still working on this.  Very few details left on the wizard.  I'll be sending this off right on deadline...  LOL

Here are the pictures as promised. The wizard still has some work left to go. Mostly minor details.

Items included in the Wizard's lab:
(1) Wizard's Table
(4) Potion Bottles
(2) Beakers
(1) Candle
(1) Skull
(1) Pitcher
(1) Cup
(1) Open Scroll
(1) Folded Scroll
(1) Travelling Wizard's book
(1) Satchel
(1) Bag of Coins
(1) Warforged Arm 
(1) Set of Pliers
(1) Screwdriver
(1) Warforged wizard with Crystal Ball and Magic Staff
(1) Snake Familiar

Things that didn't turn out as wanted.  What I wanted to create - What it looks like.
(1) Buckle - Star Trek Communicator
(1) Crystal Ball - Snow Castle Ball 
(1) Large Potion Bottle - Ketchup Bottle   


As a last minute addition (I had green stuff left) I've added an open book.


----------



## Shape D. (Nov 1, 2005)

How should I ship this thing? Would it be safe in a padded envelope? or should I use a box with packing peanuts? 

A couple things I don't like about mine is the head is a bit too big, the eyes didn't come out right, and the hands look wierd. 

Still seems decent though for a first sculpt. I just need to cut the wires off the bottom and smooth out the soles of his feet and he's ready.


----------



## pogre (Nov 1, 2005)

Shipping method is up to you, but I would highly suggest a small box with peanuts. Please indicate in a note whether there is more than one piece.

Here are the folks I expect to get figs from:
nyrfherdr
D'karr
Shape D.

My mini is kind of a cool template you can use in your fantasy games and it is wizard related. I'll post picture in the near future.

I probably will cast all of D'karr's amazing tools in a couple of sprues if that's OK with everyone - save me a bit of RTV.

In the realm of good news/bad new:
Good News: My football team is 9-1 and continuing our march to the state championship.
Bad News: That does limit my mold making time, but I will try to post at least weekly updates.

For those who missed the deadline - don't sweat it. If everyone is pleased we can do this again sometime soon. I know I did a lot of sculpting I would not have otherwise done because of the project - that's all I'm looking to get out of it. 

Maybe most of it won't end in the garbage next time.


----------



## D'karr (Nov 1, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> Shipping method is up to you, but I would highly suggest a small box with peanuts. Please indicate in a note whether there is more than one piece.
> 
> Here are the folks I expect to get figs from:
> nyrfherdr
> ...





I saw that last bit there.  I still would have liked to have seen your "trash".

Okay, mine was sent out about an hour ago.  I worked till 1:00 AM this morning to finish this off.  After all that, I looked at the wizard and figured at least 5 things I would have liked to do differently.  I did take a picture of the finished wizard and I'll post that one tonight.

I don't mind you altering my stuff to save on materials.  I just hope I didn't create anything that is not castable.

Pogre and Nyrfherd, thanks so much for organizing this challenge.  It was a challenge and at times so frustrating I thought some of my stuff would end in the trash too.  However, I had fun.  I think I would not have otherwise taken up sculpting.


----------



## Alf (Nov 1, 2005)

Despite NOT making the deadline I wish to thank everyone for the inspiration


----------



## Shape D. (Nov 1, 2005)

Pogre, I just shipped mine out and realised I didn't put my alias on the box. (I tried sending you a PM, but apperently I can't do that for some reason.) Anyways, Nate C. = Shape D.

And thanks for giving us an excuse to learn sculpting. I can say for sure I'm not that great of a sculpter now, but I'm deffinetley better than I was when I started this. And I'm looking forward to getting better.


----------



## D'karr (Nov 1, 2005)

*Warforged Wizard*

Okay, here are the pictures of the completed warforged wizard.  I had a lot of fun sculpting this one, even though my cussing vocabulary was greatly expanded.


----------



## pogre (Nov 1, 2005)

nyrfherdr,

Received your sculpts today. They arrived safely and look outstanding. In order to cast the wizard I will need to cut off his right arm (wrench arm) and cast it separately. Is that a problem? 

BTW - thanks for the extra _packing_ material, but it was certainly unnecessary.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Nov 2, 2005)

D'Karr:  Your warforged wizard is awesome.  If this is your first foray into sculpting you're a natural.

Pogre:  I figured you could use the _packing_ material for the holidays. 
Cut off the arm.  At the shoulder should work best.  I'm sure you have a jewelers saw or something.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## D'karr (Nov 2, 2005)

nyrfherdr said:
			
		

> D'Karr:  Your warforged wizard is awesome.  If this is your first foray into sculpting you're a natural.
> 
> Pogre:  I figured you could use the _packing_ material for the holidays.
> Cut off the arm.  At the shoulder should work best.  I'm sure you have a jewelers saw or something.
> ...




Thank you very much for the awesome compliment.  Coming from you it means a lot.

Yes, it is my first complete sculpt.  Before that I only sculpted small gap fills and very limited conversions.

Now I'm gearing up to sculpt a small mechanical beast.  If you've read the Forgotten Forge in the back of the Eberron Campaign Setting Book you know what I'm going to be sculpting.

This little hobby is addictive.

BTW Pogre, if you need to chop off anything on my sculpts to accomodate casting please feel free to do so.


----------



## pogre (Nov 5, 2005)

OK - I am pretty sure I have received everyone's greens. I will try to run a test mold on my fig tonight. It may take me a little while to get this done - we just beat Quincy Notre Dame in the second rounds of the playoffs and I am still in playoff football mode. The only reason I might get something doen tonight is I do not have the opponent's film yet 

I am super impressed with the sculpts - I cannot wait to see them in pewter!


----------



## D'karr (Nov 6, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> OK - I am pretty sure I have received everyone's greens. I will try to run a test mold on my fig tonight. It may take me a little while to get this done - we just beat Quincy Notre Dame in the second rounds of the playoffs and I am still in playoff football mode. The only reason I might get something doen tonight is I do not have the opponent's film yet
> 
> I am super impressed with the sculpts - I cannot wait to see them in pewter!




Hey, you guys are on a winning streak that is fantastic.  Congratulations.

Coaching a winning team is awesome and it is very time-sensitive and time-consuming.  Take care of that priority first.  I mean you don't control the gaming schedule so that has to be your priority right now.  You can get to the "work" of casting when time becomes more available.

We already knew that the casting was going to take some time so it's not a big deal.  Keep us posted on your progress as you can, football-wise and casting.  BTW, I'd love to see pictures of how you do the molds and casting.  That is the part that I would probably never do myself...  But never say never.   LOL

Once again congratulations.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Nov 6, 2005)

No worries Pogre.  We're patient folk.

Game ON!
Nyrfherdr


----------



## Shape D. (Nov 7, 2005)

pogre said:
			
		

> OK - I am pretty sure I have received everyone's greens. I will try to run a test mold on my fig tonight. It may take me a little while to get this done - we just beat Quincy Notre Dame in the second rounds of the playoffs and I am still in playoff football mode. The only reason I might get something doen tonight is I do not have the opponent's film yet



Sweet, thats way better than the 1-7 pro team I'm rooting for. I've go no problems waiting either, I'd say the coaching there and the new child deffinatly count as an apropriate 
reason to make us wait.



			
				pogre said:
			
		

> I am super impressed with the sculpts!



That probobly means you haven't recieved mine yet.


----------



## pogre (Nov 13, 2005)

In what has become pogre's litany of excuses:

We beat Civic Memorial today 35-0. We host the semi-final at our place next Saturday. If my team wins it is on to the State Championship game at Memorial stadium. One to go for the turf!

ummm, yeah, that means I have not even thought about making a mold over the last week...


----------



## pogre (Nov 21, 2005)

We lost and I went straight to work.

Check out my model and figure thread for progress notes and pics.

Thanks for your patience guys!


----------



## nyrfherdr (Nov 21, 2005)

Sorry to hear about your team not moving on to the finals.  I was rooting for you.
I was in Chicago last week on business and two of the people in the office had kids in different high schools in the playoffs.   I didn't tell them I wasn't rooting for them...

Anyway.  No worries on the timing.
Game ON!


----------



## pogre (Dec 6, 2005)

*This was supposed to be in my figure thread, but I left it here too as it seemed a fitting conclusion.*

All pictures are thumbnail link to larger photos.

*Making Pewter Miniatures From RTV Molds (Part Three)*

Welcome to part 3 of creating RTV molds cutting molds and casting the pewter

All the molds are set. Now I get out a new hobby blade and start cutting v-channels in the molds to create paths for the pewter.





As I cast the figures I will continue to cut the molds to get the best flow possible. The next step is to cut a pour funnel. This proved to be very difficult with the smaller molds – more on that later.





Each mold has talc powder brushed in it to help separate the molds when the pewter is poured.





The next step is where my wife calls me a fool. I do not own a mold box or mold clamps. Instead, I cut bass wood to match each mold and then clamp the molds with old fashioned rubberbands. Why does my wife call me a fool? Well, if I miss pour the pewter the bands will snap and I could get a lap full of pewter. In other words, don’t do what I do – buy a mold box and some proper clamps 





Here’s the work area. I have a nice big piece of ceramic tile on top a huge piece of oak. The hotpot is full of scraps from previous projects and the molds are ready to go.





Now the hotpot is plugged in and the pewter melts. There will be some impurities floating around the top. I scoop these off with an old stainless steel spoon.





I pour the first batch of molds and it becomes obvious the small molds have a problem. I can tell the pewter is not really going into the molds. Looks like some more cutting is in order…





I pop open the nyrf armless wizard mold and things look pretty good. Forgive the heavy flash, it was in a poorly lit area.





Next, I open the D’karr wizard and immediately notice a small tear in the mold due to an undercut on the figure. The figure looks pretty good though.





Shape D.’s mold was next and the entire length of it ripped – an undercut on the cape pulled the whole thing apart. Damn… Well, I got one mediocre figure out of it – the mold really was not hot enough, but it will have to do. 

RTV can be a catch-22, use a flexible mold that can handle more undercuts and it cannot handle high temperatures – use a high temperature RTV and it cannot handle many undercuts. I have to use a fairly high temp RTV, because I use lead-free metals - Too many kids about the house to do otherwise.

Here’s the final figures I selected for shipping. The strange looking orbs at the bottom are supposed to be my Flaming Sphere markers. It looks more like – in the immortal words of my wife ‘A mutant bowling ball.’





So I packed the figures up and shipped out the boxes today. I decided to throw in the molds so you folks could check them out. I think the best cast figures of the bunch by far was Nyrf’s wizard’s assistant robotic arm.  I cut and cut the small molds, but I could not get the pewter to flow down them. I finally gave up around 2:30 AM. I think for pieces that small you have to have a spincaster.

So here’s what is heading your way via priority mail:
1.	Your original green – or what’s left of it.
2.	The molds I made from your figures. D’Karr’s wizard mold is badly ripped as is Shape D.’s, but nyrf’s molds are good to go for more casts.
3.	Everyone received an armless nyrf wizard and robotic arm assistant, a D’Karr wizard, and a mutant pogre flaming sphere marker. Shape D. also received the only cast I got out of his figure’s mold.

I hope you are not too disappointed in the results. I think next time I will set up a guide for sculpting to allow more successful casts. I did not consider all of the undercuts figures’ might have before the project started. I also learned small/tiny pieces just do not seem to gravity cast very well.


----------



## D'karr (Dec 7, 2005)

Pogre that is awesome.  It is cool to finally see the miniatures in pewter.

I'm sorry that my sculpts caused so much trouble.


----------



## nyrfherdr (Dec 7, 2005)

Hey Pogre.  Nice work.  I'm sorry too.  I could have done my arms differently, but really wasn't thinking about undercuts and the 3rd dimension.

I'll create new arms when I get mine.
Thanks again.

Nyrf


----------

