# WotC Seeking Your Setting Proposals (was "Big Wizard announcement")



## Arcane Runes Press

Go here:

http://www.gamingreport.com/article.php?sid=4060&mode=thread&order=0

Hope the link works. 

Otherwise scroll down the front page of www.gamingreport.com

It's worth it.

Your campaign world may be worth 120,000 dollars. 

Patrick Y.

*edit* I'm sticking this one to the top of the forum for better visibility; also editing the subject to make it more obvious. -- Eric Noah


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## rounser

It's a "Who Wants To Be Ed Greenwood?" competition.


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## Frostmarrow

Core Ethos Sentence?

How about this: A world of swords-and-sandals adventure, where heroes battle monsters whilst wearing sandals.


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## Zappo

I can't believe it! They want _another_ generic fantasy sword&sorcery setting! Don't they have enough of them?!?


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## Arcane Runes Press

Zappo said:
			
		

> *I can't believe it! They want another generic fantasy sword&sorcery setting! Don't they have enough of them?!? *




Well, it's not what "they have enough of" that matters, it's what the public has had enough of that matters. 

Besides, they said thematically similar. I suspect they're cautioning against 8 million Planescapesque settings, rather than saying it MUST BE LIKE FR or DL. There is alot of wiggle room to sword&sorcery.


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## Paul_Klein

The first proposal is due on the 21st of this month. That's not a lot of time at all.


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## MJEggertson

Yikes, that's a pretty demanding timeline. Sort of demands that you have most of the details of your gaming world already worked out.

I have hundreds of vague details I've been keeping in my head for years for an alternate setting. But can I get them down in a coherent form that quickly, whilst dealing with work? The answer is probably: no.


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## Eternalknight

Remember, it's only a 1 page submission they want right now


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## Sammael99

test


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## Hand of Evil

They really do have too many now, but setting books sell, even if it is just to steal ideas for your game.  Publish and forget it.


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## Angelsboi

Im doign it.  Good thing i have this already done =)


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## Frostmarrow

My guess is that it will take two to three years before we even see the first novel for this brave new world.


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## Wolf72

guess they don't like Birthright or Darksun, huh?

the birthright world has only one continent explored, there's lots more to do ... similiar with Darksun ... lots more to do.

I guess they want something a bit newer and fresher


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## rounser

> guess they don't like Birthright or Darksun, huh?



Well, if the novels and game products for those worlds didn't sell well enough to save them the first time around...


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## Tsyr

Someone tell Shark...


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## Frostmarrow

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Someone tell Shark...  *




Yeah. Core Ethos Sentence á la SHARK: 

SHARK'S Realms is a world of sword-and-sorcery adventure, where millions of heroes battle millions of monsters with magic.

Apologies to SHARK - you know I'm a fan.


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## Reprisal

There's nothing wrong with new and fresh ideas, at least, I think so...  As far as I know, Birthright and Darksun have things going on for them online, perhaps WotC didn't want to meddle with that...

Still, I do have some desire to try it out, but at the same time, I'm not sure that I really understand some of the questions and terms on the template.



> 1. Core Ethos Sentence. [A sentence that describes the core ethos of the world. For example, Forgotten Realms is a world of sword-and-sorcery adventure, where heroes battle monsters with magic.]
> 
> 2. Who are the heroes? [Brief description of heroes central to the setting. This need not be a comprehensive list.]
> 
> 3. What do they do? [What are the main objectives of the heroes, and what steps do they take to achieve those objectives?]
> 
> 4. Threats, Conflicts, Villains [What is the main danger to the world, and from whom does it come?]
> 
> 5. Nature of magic [What is the source of magic? How abundant/scarce is it?]
> 
> 6. What’s new? What’s different? [What makes this setting unique?




Now, I understand the Core Ethos Sentence, but when they ask who the heroes, villains, and such, I don't quite understand...

Am I supposed to outline NPC heroes, and villains?  Or should I be outlining Kings, Queens, Chancellors, Clergy, and Warlords?

Are the Heroes meant to be central characters to the setting like Elminster and Mordenkainen (sp.) in FR and GH, or more akin to characters like Emperor Kabori in KoK?


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## Napftor

This certainly is the chance of a lifetime.  Even if you don't have a world of your own, it's worth the time and effort to make one up fast!  Hell, this is what I'm doing.  Good luck to everyone!


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## CWD

[BEGIN RANT BLOCK]

Is this genuine?  Why isn't it on the Wizard's website?  While we're at it:

1)  Similar to the Realms and Dragonlance... WHY?  I'm glad I sold my setting already, since obviously Wizards isn't interested in something different from what they've done before.

2)  What's up with that ethos statement?  It could describe any and all fantasy settings.  For the realms, shouldn't it be more like "A world of powerful good-aligned NPCs, where the PCs get to follow them around and sing their praises"? (BTW I like the Realms just fine, so I'm allowed to bash its flaws)

2)  Who are the main heroes??  The PCs, duh!  Why would they ask such a question?  It sounds like they're interested more in hack novel fodder than a decent game setting.

3)  If they really wanted a good fantasy setting, they would have busted their butts to pick up the Lord of the Rings license instead of letting Decipher get it.

4)  I guess I'd better sit down and start writing a new setting proposal (hey, I'm weak)!

[END RANT BLOCK]


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## Tom Cashel

I'll believe it when WotC announces it for real.


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## Henry

The only thing that bugs me is that it goes to a P.O. Box. Could someone contact Anthony Valterra and verify this contest?


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## EricNoah

It's the real deal.


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## Darraketh

It bothers me that I don't see a reference here:
http://www.wizards.com/News/


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## Tuerny

WOW. I think that summraizes this pretty well.
It shall be interesting to see if one of the many adherents to ENWorld are able to rise to the challange and become the author of WotC's next campaign setting.
I know I am entering. My main decision is whether to use my current setting or hash out a new one in that time frame...


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## BiggusGeekus

Thanks for the confirmation Eric.

Well, obviously I can pull this off.  I already have the 100 pages.  But since most of them have been publically available on my site ... am I able to enter?  The "Confidentiality" section on the agreement would suggest that the answer is no.


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## Rune

I'm entering


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## Morrus

It's real - I was sent a copy by WotC.  If I hadn't received it directly from them, I wouldn't have posted it without verifying it.


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## Tuerny

Hey Piratecat, are you entering? 
Should we flee in terror now?


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## Psion

I'm wondering if anyone will join forces...


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## Psion

Tuerny said:
			
		

> *I know I am entering. My main decision is whether to use my current setting or hash out a new one in that time frame... *




I don't think I would enter my main setting. It's just too... lived in. (Although my players have told me I should publish it... I know better.)

However, two of my alternate settings that I have some work done on sound like a possibility.


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## Aeolius

one word:


Flumphworld.


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## Kid Charlemagne

Psion said:
			
		

> *I'm wondering if anyone will join forces... *




I've considered asking one or two people I know, but the time frame attached to the initial deadline makes it very tough.  You'd have to be very sure you could find the time to collaborate.


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## Desdichado

_



*Psion:*
I'm wondering if anyone will join forces...


Click to expand...


_
What, and share the reward?  No way, pal!


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## Tuerny

Yeah that would be a problem. Luckily my main setting has only had one real campaign ran in it and that is the current one. Plus I have a huge body of material that I have already written up that I can use if I ever move into the later rounds. 

But your alternate worlds are interesting Psion. If you choose to use just one them I suggest the ice world. It sounded the most interesting 





			
				Psion said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't think I would enter my main setting. It's just too... lived in. (Although my players have told me I should publish it... I know better.)
> 
> However, two of my alternate settings that I have some work done on sound like a possibility. *


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## SHARK

Greetings!

Well, what can I say? This is certainly an interesting opportunity. Of course I will send a submission! Thanks for the encouragement from my fans and friends by the way!

I'm wondering though, if my own world would be similar enough to Forgotten Realms for them to want it. FR is ok, but my own world has some distinct differences. We'll see though! The best of luck to everyone else that joins in the fun!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


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## Zulkir

*Its for real*

Folks,
This is genuine. I know the timeline seems aggressive but we are only looking for a one page submission. If your submission is longer than one page it will get roundfiled! This is the "are you capable of following simple directions" test. I gaurantee that we will be tossing a whole wad of multi-page proposals because someone can't follow directions.

Okay, next rant. We are looking for fantasy medieval settings. That is what we do best. So that is what we mean when we say FR or DL. But if someone brought us Ravenloft or Mystara or Darksun they would all be close enough to be in the running.

If you have a campaign setting and it has been made public, but not published you can submit it if you wish. But we will probably want to avoid setting that have been previously published.

Umm...... Feel free to post questions here I will answer them as I get a chance. Please read the entire announcement before posting a question as it does contain an FAQ.

AV


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## Psion

Greetings Anthony,

Would this be a good place to ask: Why? Why do you feel another psuedo-European setting is appropriate/desirable/warranted, with FR and Greyhawk already there?


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## BiggusGeekus

Mr. Valterra,

You say you're particular about the one-page entry.  Are you particular about font or justification or anything like that?

OK, I imagine no margins with 6 point "wingding" font is a bad idea.  But are there any other particular guidelines you'd like to see?


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## Desdichado

I'm not really sure what the "like FR or Dragonlance" means though.  Can it also be "like Oriental Adventures," for example, or is that too far afield?  It's still a fantasy medieval setting, but it's a far cry from FR or Dragonlance.

But then again, so is Dark Sun.  How closely is it assumed that we follow the PHB?  Does eliminating some classes and replacing them with others ala OA count against us, or is that fine?

I know I'm probably getting more specific than you want to answer, but I'm really vague on what that whole thing means still.


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## Desdichado

Oh, and another thing, and this is probably getting too far ahead anyway: if we get selected and go on, are we expected to detail new mechanics for the setting as well as the fluff?  If so, do we get access to any internal WotC documents to help us do so according to the official construction engine?


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## Morrus

Anthony - is "Category Manager TRPGs" the same job with a different name, or are you doing a different job at WotC now?


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## Tom Cashel

*Re: Its for real*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> This is genuine. *




Really sorry to be so skeptical but...why can't I find any mention of this on www.wizards.com?  Posted rumors on gaming report and posts on EN World do not a confirmation construe.


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## Frostmarrow

*Re: Re: Its for real*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Really sorry to be so skeptical but...why can't I find any mention of this on www.wizards.com?  Posted rumors on gaming report and posts on EN World do not a confirmation construe. *




Yes it does. EN-World is the place to go.


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## Desdichado

Dude, that was Anthony Valterra you were asking.  He, at least, oughtta know!


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## Psion

*Re: Re: Its for real*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *Really sorry to be so skeptical but...why can't I find any mention of this on www.wizards.com?  Posted rumors on gaming report and posts on EN World do not a confirmation construe. *




Just to clarify for those who don't know: Zulkir is the ENWorld screen name for Anthony Valtera of WotC. So unless someone hacked his acount on ENWorld, it's for real.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL!

Shark, what about your setting, it seems very interesting to me?


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## Morrus

*Re: Re: Its for real*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Really sorry to be so skeptical but...why can't I find any mention of this on www.wizards.com?  Posted rumors on gaming report and posts on EN World do not a confirmation construe. *




I guess that there comes a point where you decide to believe it or not; and I imagine that WotC don't particularly mind either way and probably don't see any particular need to "prove" it.

As for me - I'm willing to vouch for it's being genuine.  For starters, it came to me directly from Don Williams, WotC's PR guy, and secondly AV has posted in this thread.  If you don't belive the words directly from him, then I dn't think you're going to believe anything.


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## Tom Cashel

All right, all right!   Cut a skeptic some slack, willya?

I didn't say I don't _want_ to believe...


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## Henry

Anthony,

You are the last bastion of openness in the WotC World. 

Thank you for the quick response!

-Henry Link


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## Tuerny

Unless the idea is selected to be used for the 100 page setting bible, will the rights be kept by the creator?


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## EricNoah

Ok, all of the following is in my opinion only, feel free to ignore...



> In scope and flavor, your proposed fantasy setting should be similar to our existing settings, particularly FORGOTTEN REALMS and DRAGONLANCE.




To me that's easy to understand.  The first four words are important.

"In scope" -- that means how big.  They don't want a universe.  They don't want a galaxy.  They don't want just a city or a dungeon.  They want a planet or a sizeable part of a planet.  Also they don't want a setting that's on the verge of blowing up tomorrow.  They want one that will have enough meat to last gamers years of play.

"In ... flavor ... similar to our existing settings" -- this is trickier, but for a second forget about FR and DL.  What they want, in terms of flavor, is a fantasy world where the players can play heroic characters and have adventures.  What they're trying to avoid is submissions of more "adult-themed" worlds, or something so weird that it would appeal only to a niche.  There has to be enough stuff going on in the world that a variety of races and classes can be found there and be played as PCs and have fun adventures.  

Finally, I feel that people are thinking of this as a contest.  It doesn't seem to be that way to me.  This is the potential beginning of a professional publishing career for you, in a sense.  If you're going to do it you have to do it as a professional.  Put yourselves in their shoes -- are they going to haggle with you over the length of the first proposal?  Are they going to say, "Oh no we didn't say it had to be in 12 point fonts, I guess we have to accept this 3,000 word entry in 1 point font."  No, they're going to expect you to make things easy for them by following their guidelines and trying to anticipate their needs even when not explicitly laid out.  So just think about things from their point of view and try to figure things out for yourselves.  

Note I'm not saying "don't ask questions" -- but be careful to begin this relationship on a good note by showing self-sufficiency and the ability to follow what directions are provided and problem-solve when they're not.


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## Leopold

SHARK said:
			
		

> *Greetings!
> 
> Well, what can I say? This is certainly an interesting opportunity. Of course I will send a submission! Thanks for the encouragement from my fans and friends by the way!
> 
> I'm wondering though, if my own world would be similar enough to Forgotten Realms for them to want it. FR is ok, but my own world has some distinct differences. We'll see though! The best of luck to everyone else that joins in the fun!
> 
> Semper Fidelis,
> 
> SHARK *




m,y vote is going for you SHARK! I love your world and still waiting for those minotaur stats. Hell if WOTC doesn't pick you up find a publishing company that will! I am sure there are a few of the top tier ones that would eat your material alive!


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## KingOfChaos

Am I the only one who can't seem to download the doc file on the front page with the details for this?

I hate the d20reviews.com domain, it never seems to work for me.


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## Prof.Dogg

*saving the doc...*

Do a right-click "save as..."


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## EricNoah

KingOfChaos said:
			
		

> *Am I the only one who can't seem to download the doc file on the front page with the details for this?
> 
> I hate the d20reviews.com domain, it never seems to work for me. *




Yeah it's flaky.  Keep trying though, it works about once every three tries for me.  

I'll try attaching it here..


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## Desdichado

Eric, you make a good point.  However, this really is a combination of a contest and a publishing submission.  Without giving better than some vague guidelines, we eliminate ourselves from the running simply because we don't know what they're looking for.

As to the format of the submission, I would bet you can look at the writer's submission guidelines and track that down.  Barring that, there's tons of references on standardized author submissions that you can use, and I doubt you'll go wrong with any of those.


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## Void Indigo

*Big Question*

Anthony, 

On the Fantasy Setting Proposal Template, questions 2 & 3 ask about the heroes of the setting--do you mean signature characters, like Elminster and Raestlin, or do you mean "Who would the average party be and what would they do?" 

Thanks


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## DiamondB

Wow and I was just wondering what I was going to do with my newly written players guide.  What wonderful timing, now to sum everything up into a 1 page proposal.


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## Kid Charlemagne

I'm kind of surprised this isn't getting more responses than it is!

Anthony,

Is there any expectation that a world setting should follow the "ground rules" as far as races and classes go?  I'd expect that a succesful candidate wouldn't take the core classes and races too far from their roots, and that leaving any out would be bad form...  

Anyway, thanks for startign this contest up, this may be just about the coolest thing I've seen recently.


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## Ashrem Bayle

*Re: Big Question*



			
				Void Indigo said:
			
		

> *Anthony,
> 
> On the Fantasy Setting Proposal Template, questions 2 & 3 ask about the heroes of the setting--do you mean signature characters, like Elminster and Raestlin, or do you mean "Who would the average party be and what would they do?"
> 
> Thanks *




Yea. I was wondering this myself. 

Luckily I've got some vacation time coming up!


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## Mouseferatu

*Re: Big Question*



			
				Void Indigo said:
			
		

> *Anthony,
> 
> On the Fantasy Setting Proposal Template, questions 2 & 3 ask about the heroes of the setting--do you mean signature characters, like Elminster and Raestlin, or do you mean "Who would the average party be and what would they do?"
> 
> Thanks *




I, too, will second (third? fourth?) this question.  I've already gotten the rough answers written on the rest of the six questions, but I'm not quite sure how to answer these two.


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## Taren Nighteyes

*Reason for the Lack of Posts*

1) People are waiting for Anthony to respond to the questions already asked.

2) People are giddy with excitement.

3) People are shocked into silence.

4) People are busy writing up their "1 page winner"

Taren Nighteyes

P.S.  I really think this is one of the best things Wizards has ever done.  Thank you.


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## Ashrem Bayle

*Re: Reason for the Lack of Posts*



			
				Taren Nighteyes said:
			
		

> *1) People are waiting for Anthony to respond to the questions already asked.
> 
> 2) People are giddy with excitement.
> 
> 3) People are shocked into silence.
> 
> 4) People are busy writing up their "1 page winner"
> 
> Taren Nighteyes
> 
> P.S.  I really think this is one of the best things Wizards has ever done.  Thank you. *




1? Check

2? Check

3? Nope

4? Got my first one done. Almost....  

I agree, this is a bold and yet ingenius move on their part.


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## Tom Cashel

Are multiple submissions allowed?

edit: Ah, see...I was trying to show what happens if you _don't_ read the FAQ and...I, uh...forget it.  I just read the FAQ.


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## Ashrem Bayle

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *Are multiple submissions allowed? *




Short Answer: Yes
Long Answer: Read the FAQ that comes in the .doc download.


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## blickish

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *Are multiple submissions allowed? *





well, that didn't take long.


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## sword-dancer

SHARK said:
			
		

> *Greetings!
> 
> Well, what can I say? This is certainly an interesting opportunity. Of course I will send a submission! Thanks for the encouragement from my fans and friends by the way!
> 
> I'm wondering though, if my own world would be similar enough to Forgotten Realms for them to want it. FR is ok, but my own world has some distinct differences. We'll see though! The best of luck to everyone else that joins in the fun!
> 
> Semper Fidelis,
> 
> SHARK *




I wish you luck and good success.

bye 

Thorsten


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## Zulkir

*Some answers*

Folks,

I'll try cover what I've got so far

On format, we are not picky as long as it is professional. Double or single, either is fine. Obviously if we get six point type and no margins we are going to toss it, just like we are going to toss anything not typed (put away your crayons).

On heroes what we are look for is broad outlines of who becomes heores in your world and why. Are they adventureres, fighting injustice, out to make a buck, some combination etc. etc. We don't need actual characters until the 10 page.

On how far you can stray from the genre. We are looking for a product that you can use the core rule books for. We are open to new classes, races, maybe even spell systems. But the further you stray the more impressive you are going to need to be. And don't bother with non-medieval I don't care how good the proposal we are no looking for Shadowrun.

Two final thoughts. Someon on this list pointed out that the best thing to do is keep in mond that we could be reading hundereds of these submissions and that you should keep that in mind. So the more you can do to make our job easier the better the chances are you will get paid attention to. If for whateever reason we have to work to read your entry we are likely to give up quick. Point two, also keep in mind that you are proposing a world that will be used for RPGs, novels, minis and maybe TCGs. You might want to keep that in mind as you are creating - leave room for all of the above.

Oh, someone asked about ownership. Yes, you own your work until you are one of the top 3. Yes, that is right we will only ask for the rights to the top 3 proposals.

AV

please forgive the typing I am rushing today.


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## mearls

I'm of two minds on this entire business. I can't help but think there are other forces at work here. On a few levels, none of this makes any sense:

1. WotC has more than a few designers on staff, all of whom are already paid full-time salaries to do this exact sort of thing.

2. There's no guarantee the settings they receive will be any good, or at least any better than anything a staff designer could create.

3. Wasn't one of the problems with TSR that they released too many settings that splintered the customer base? WotC obviously expects this to be on the same scale as FR and DL, but DL never really succeeded as an RPG product.

On the other hand, the two most successful properties TSR developed (FR in terms of RPG products, DL in terms of books) were both created out of house. FR was Ed's baby, while Tracy Hickman created the basics of DL while driving cross-country to his new job at TSR.

This will be a curious process to watch, indeed. The process in and of itself could be an important tool to help fire interest in the game world. At the very least, WotC will have piles of world proposals that will tell them a lot about what people are looking for in D&D products.

Good luck to everyone who enters.


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## King_Stannis

mearls said:
			
		

> *.....At the very least, WotC will have piles of world proposals that will tell them a lot about what people are looking for in D&D products...*




hmmm, that comment interests me quite a bit. 

i'll be interested in whose name actually ends up on the final product. something tells me that, far from being a newcomer, it may be someone already entrenched in the industry. let's face it, if someone like monte cook submits a one page proposal of his ptolus campaign do you think that it *just might* get goosed up to the top of the pile? this is basically a $120,000 freelance job that a professional could crank out in maybe 9 months (W.A.G.). if i was a professional, you better believe i'd be sharpening my pencil for that kind of jack!

*crack* - back cynical side.  on the face of it, it does seem a great opportunity to get noticed.


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## whatisitgoodfor

> And don't bother with non-medieval I don't care how good the proposal we are no looking for Shadowrun.




Hmm...

What does this mean? Are they not even the least little bit interested in someone creating a new setting for their D20 modern system?

Another question would be whether or not they would even consider a setting that isn't euro-centric? 

I seem to recall someone tossing around an idea for Arabian Adventures a couple of months back. That setting would clearly violate the medieval suggestion, but still falls under the general category of appropriate fantasy.


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## Tom Cashel

blickish said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> well, that didn't take long. *




Hey, gimme a break, all right?  I'm at work.


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## 2WS-Steve

*Purposes*

As far as why they're doing this I can think of two reasons.

1) Nice marketing gimmick; plus the potential reward is probably large enough to get the very best freelancers interested.

2) I've always kind of seen Greyhawk as the campaign setting for First Edition and Forgotten Realms as the setting for Second Edition. Perhaps they figure it'd be worthwhile to have a newish setting for Third Edition.


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## Christian

I like it. I've been meaning for years to sift through my eight billion pages of jotted notes & put together a readable & meaningful summary of my campaign world. (From 1st Edition AD&D, natch. Of course, some of the notes are 2nd and 3rd Edition-based.) Even if I don't get past the first round (a 99.99% likelihood, optimistically speaking), the mere existence of this contest will inspire me to get going on this ...


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## Oracular Vision

I also would like to know what is meant by medieval, does it have to be in Europe? Can it just be from about that time frame, but based somewhere else? And what if we wanted to have one from an earlier time, with a little bit lower technology level? There are so many things you could do with this, still using all the core rules, limiting only the weapons and armor, and the magic items found. New simplier ones could make up the new setting book. This will help us weed out poor choices, thanks.


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## Angelsboi

It is real.  I have an email about a question i had from a friend of mine.  Its VERY real.  If you are going to wait, then you, my friend, will miss out.

As for who are the heros?  Im going to name my campaigns own Iconics.


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## erinsaga

*a quickie...*

sounds like a great idea.

except for one thing. Unless I use express delivery there is no guarantee that I can get a physical letter to america on time. Me = unemployed after the computer business took a nosedive and the ol' euro funds are *very* low.

I know a physical competition would limit the amount of timewasters responding but any chance of a european mailing address or maybe an email address?

(having said that, I will definitely be sending a snail mail copy as well but me doubts it will get there in time.)


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## Duvall

*Re: a quickie...*



			
				erinsaga said:
			
		

> *Unless I use express delivery there is no guarantee that I can get a physical letter to america on time*




Well, I work in Bellevue, WA, which is a stone's throw from Wizards Corporate Offices in Renton, so if you are willing, you could email me your stuff and I could print it out and mail it locally.  Problem is you'd be trusting a stranger, but I leave the option open to you.  Just contact me via the email in my profile if you're interested.


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## coyote6

*Re: Re: a quickie...*



			
				Duvall said:
			
		

> *Well, I work in Bellevue, WA, which is a stone's throw from Wizards Corporate Offices in Renton, so if you are willing, you could email me your stuff and I could print it out and mail it locally.  Problem is you'd be trusting a stranger, but I leave the option open to you.  Just contact me via the email in my profile if you're interested. *




You have to include a signed form; that would probably have to be faxed. 

(Well, I suppose he could print the form, sign it, scan it, & email the scanned image to be printed.)


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## Zulkir

*Still answering*

Folks,

Yes we have our own R&D many of them will be submitting. Judging will be done blind. All R&D submittees are under strict gag order. If they talk to anyone about their ideas before we judge - it is eliminated from consideration. And yes, part of the reason we are doing this is that two of the biggest campaigns came from out of house.

Regarding Europe, please note that entries must be "postmarked" by the deadline. Sending it early from Europe is still a good idea though.


Regarding d20 Modern - no we are not interested in submissions for d20 modern only D&D. And no we are not limited to Eurocentric. Medieval should be read as a time period or a technology level not a cultural or geographical location.

AV


----------



## wdodd

Angelsboi said:
			
		

> *As for who are the heros?  Im going to name my campaigns own Iconics. *



As long as they are representative...
Anthony V. said...

_On heroes what we are look for is broad outlines of who becomes heores in your world and why. Are they adventureres, fighting injustice, out to make a buck, some combination etc. etc. We don't need actual characters until the 10 page._ 

Weldon


----------



## mythusmage

I'll be sending in a proposal (I can use the money). If nothing else, it'll get me motivated enough to put my DnD world into playable form. If Wizards don't want it, I can always publish it myself.

Off to read through the DOC Eric so kindly provided in his message on this thread and start writing.

Alan


----------



## Tsyr

Well, my current setting isn't applicable probably, so I'm not gonna enter... *sigh* I hope someone from here gets chosen, though...

I know I'd love to see Shark's world...


----------



## jester47

The fact that the submissions have to be mailed in will cull out a lot.  The fact that the deadline is in 2 weeks will cull a lot.  The fact that what you think is cool and what 100,000 other people think is cool is very different will cull a lot.  The fact that the OGL has proven that 9 out of 10 of the people that have the gumption to get somthing out can't spell will cull a lot.   The fact that being a writer is a lot harder than wanting to be a writer will cull a lot.   The fact that many gamers can't separate story from mechanics will cull a lot. 

I feel that the chances of an entrenched freelancer taking the cake are slim.  The reasons they are entrenched are 1) they can write, 2) they take the time to write, 3) they are creative.   That is pretty much the only reason.  If you have that then you can do freelance work.

Aaron Webb


----------



## Monte At Home

King_Stannis said:
			
		

> *
> let's face it, if someone like monte cook submits a one page proposal of his ptolus campaign do you think that it *just might* get goosed up to the top of the pile?  *




It's a blind submission. They won't be looking at author's names--a very admirable way to do it, I think.

And, if anything, I think having a well-known name might work against the professionals who submit. Because:

1. If it weren't a blind submission process, the professionals would very well be judged more harshly.

2. WotC might be afraid of it looking "fixed," if say, Bruce Cordell or Rich Baker won.


----------



## jester47

Also, thank you Anthony for the clarification on the heroes.  My description stated what they stood for but not the reasons behind the adventureing.  Changes have been made...

Write, write, and then rewrite.

Aaron Webb


----------



## Tuerny

Will you be entering, Monte?


----------



## Monte At Home

I haven't decided yet. The fact that WotC doesn't own the material until the final 3 stage is making me actually consider it though (I wouldn't consider it otherwise).

And the fact that it's a blind submission is also a draw. I like the "level playing field" effect that has.


----------



## Oracular Vision

Oh well, maybe we can be 2nd and 3rd after Monte then. If we can just keep Bruce Cordell and Mr. Reynolds from learning of the contest....


----------



## Angelsboi

yes.  I changed it =)


----------



## Aaron L

I am writimg now! 


[and of course, i make a typo.  very impressive, if i do say so myself]


----------



## Sigma

Hmmm...what's an appropriate font size for this type of thing.  I'm a bit over using size 10...


----------



## Kichwas

rounser said:
			
		

> *It's a "Who Wants To Be Ed Greenwood?" competition.  *



I'd be suprised if Ed ever got anything more than a Minimum Wage job and a chance to despised and loved by roleplayers everywhere. 

I'm suprised they're offering so much. Especially in this industry.

Marvel got Wolverine from some kid for nothing more than a single issue of noteriety and probably a signed comic book.


----------



## RBB

It sure would be fun to see the top 100 or so entries (with names attached).

At least we can have a thread here where those of us who are willing can post their non-winning stage 1 entries.

Now to find time to polish this thing...

RBB
Neverwinter Vault Scriptographer


----------



## jester47

On a mac use 10, on a PC use 12.  Anything smaller is by most standards hard to read, anything bigger (why would you want to) and the reader ussually feels insulted. 

Aaron Webb


----------



## Kichwas

Monte At Home said:
			
		

> [BIt's a blind submission. They won't be looking at author's names--a very admirable way to do it, I think.[/B]




It may be blind, but if a well known home campaign showed up I think everybody would know who it came from.


----------



## sword-dancer

*Re: Still answering*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> 
> 
> 
> Regarding d20 Modern - no we are not interested in submissions for d20 modern only D&D. And no we are not limited to Eurocentric. Medieval should be read as a time period or a technology level not a cultural or geographical location.
> 
> AV *




If iunderstand right

It means a technological standard/standard of cultural development.
Is Feudalism a must or is an bureacratic administration acceptable?

like the following
Antice

Mesopotomian Sumer or Babylonian/Assyrian hetites
Classical Roman Greece Carthagian
The time of the indoeuropean migrations 

The dark ages after the fall of rome
Gothic Italy, francs-Gauls, britannia
East Rome 
bycanz - Persian.

India in the rajput or the maharabvedian times, or the chandruguptijan times


a finnish setting maybe like the kalemvala.

Is the benning of the renaissance, the time whrer the MA ends and the time of reason develops in the range.


----------



## BlightCrawler

*Re: Re: Still answering*



			
				sword-dancer said:
			
		

> *
> If iunderstand right
> 
> It means a technological standard/standard of cultural development.
> Is Feudalism a must or is an bureacratic administration acceptable?
> *




I would suggest reading the answers again.  What you quoted answers your question above specifically.  It means a time and technology only.  It does NOT mean cultural.  It does not mean geographic.

If you can write a telepathic democracy so that it feels medieval using only medieval technology, then it works.  If you can only think of a Fuedal world where cybernetic dogs keep the peace, it's out.


----------



## CWD

*Re: Still answering*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *And no we are not limited to Eurocentric. Medieval should be read as a time period or a technology level not a cultural or geographical location.
> AV *




Non-Eurocentric is OK?  Rats!  Where was this contest 6 months ago?  I mean, I'm happy with my publisher and everything, but wow they are offering a lot of money.  Oh well, back to the drawing board.


----------



## EvilPheemy

Part of me *REALLY* likes the idea of being up against Monte, Bruce, Sean, or Chris or any of the other award-winning professionals who may be sending in their own little one-page proposals.  It's making me take the time to thoroughly polish and prepare my proposal.

Nothing like going up against the best to make you better, or so my old wrestling coach used to say.

So, to all of you, I say good luck.


----------



## NeuroZombie

Too.. many... ideas.... ARGHHHH!!!!!

hehe


----------



## jester47

> Part of me REALLY likes the idea of being up against Monte, Bruce, Sean, or Chris or any of the other award-winning professionals who may be sending in their own little one-page proposals.




Don't worry, I can take 'em!

AW


----------



## jester47

Ok so where can I see SHARK's world?  Sounds interesting.

AW


----------



## Staffan

arcady said:
			
		

> *I'd be suprised if Ed ever got anything more than a Minimum Wage job and a chance to despised and loved by roleplayers everywhere.  *



I don't know how much money he got for FR, but AFAIK he has never been employed by TSR/WOTC - all his writing has been freelance. He still keeps his old job as a librarian up in the frozen north.


----------



## Gargoyle

Take a second to think about it folks.  We are now officially in the Golden Age of role-playing games.

Hopefully, the folks who come in 4th through 10th will publish their ten-page entries, and WOTC will publish the 2nd and 3rd place entries in some form.  I'd love to see what people come up with.  Even many of the one-page entries that don't make the first cut will likely have some great ideas...


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: Re: Still answering*



			
				sword-dancer said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If iunderstand right
> 
> It means a technological standard/standard of cultural development.
> Is Feudalism a must or is an bureacratic administration acceptable?
> 
> like the following
> Antice
> 
> Mesopotomian Sumer or Babylonian/Assyrian hetites
> Classical Roman Greece Carthagian
> The time of the indoeuropean migrations
> 
> The dark ages after the fall of rome
> Gothic Italy, francs-Gauls, britannia
> East Rome
> bycanz - Persian.
> 
> India in the rajput or the maharabvedian times, or the chandruguptijan times
> 
> 
> a finnish setting maybe like the kalemvala.
> 
> Is the benning of the renaissance, the time whrer the MA ends and the time of reason develops in the range. *




Once you have common use of gunpowder you're probably too far. All of the other ideas are fine. Variant political or social milleus are all fine. We are concerned about technological level not political structure.

AV


----------



## Zulkir

EvilPheemy said:
			
		

> *Part of me REALLY likes the idea of being up against Monte, Bruce, Sean, or Chris or any of the other award-winning professionals who may be sending in their own little one-page proposals.  It's making me take the time to thoroughly polish and prepare my proposal.
> 
> Nothing like going up against the best to make you better, or so my old wrestling coach used to say.
> 
> So, to all of you, I say good luck. *




Excellent attitude. I really hope that people will be very serious about handing over tight, well written quality proposals that absolutely scream I am a professional. Cause you have to know that the industry guys will do just that.

AV


----------



## Tuerny

Anthony, 
 A template is provided for the one-page entries. Is it preferable for the entries to be in a standard paragraph format or where the questions are present along with the answers to said questions?

Thank You,
Jesse Dean


----------



## Deken

*Clarifications*

Anthony,

First of all, thanks for coming into this thread and giving clarifications.  I request a few of my own.  

I plan on sending two submissions.  Can they be sent in the same envelope (a large one, they won't be cramed and folded together) or do they have to be sent in seperate ones?

Also, please answer Tuerny's question.


----------



## Mouseferatu

Hmm.  I didn't include the questions themselves in my rough, but I did keep the same format they provided.  That is, the answer to question one is numbered one, the answer to two is numbered two, etc.

But now you've got me worried that I might have misinterpreted, so I'll wait for an Anthony to answer.    I hope he doesn't want us to include the questions, or I'll never fit the synopsis onto one page...


----------



## Voneth

Do you know who I would like to see submit a proposal, not a professional game writer, but a professional fantasy writer!

That would be great, anyone got Terry Brook's number? 

Hmmm. A six question template, and a waiver form already for download. This is almost too easy to enter.  I'm just trying to think of how I can mail a whole slew of them in one package to save on postage.


----------



## whatisitgoodfor

> That would be great, anyone got Terry Brook's number?




WOW!!

That is the absolute worst mis-spelling of Pratchett that I have ever seen.


----------



## Zulkir

*last for tonight*

Folks,
Gotta get my kid out of daycare so this is the last post until tommorrow.

1) Either paragraphs or numbered is fine as long as you answer all six clearly

2) You can submit two in the same envelope. They will be processed by our admin so we won't know that you sent in more than one.

3) The proposal has also gone out to author's and author agents so a proposal from a name author is not impossible.

AV


----------



## mythusmage

Tony's a dad creature, with his own pet kobold! Now we know where he gets his endless supply of patience from.

But seriously, I have a question for you when you get back.

Namely, and to whit, what about maps? Will maps be required with the 10 page proposals? If not required could maps be included at the author's option? Would the maps count against the 10 page limit?

I know this is early, but I, for one, will be working on part 2 before getting word back on part 1. Just in case.

Bit of advice for those reading this thread: Even if your proposal is rejected, flesh it out anyway. You might find another publisher for it, and at the very least you'll have a new campaign setting for your own game.

BTW, do your best. Even if your opus doesn't make it, a good effort will give you a good reputation with the folks at Wizards of the Coast.


----------



## Greybar

A query:

Would a setting that uses the published Greyhawk deities would be at a disadvantage over an original set of deities?

Thanks,
Greybar


----------



## Rahkan

*Questions from the wrong side of 18*

I am a minor, so I was wondering of Mr. Valterra would answer some technical questions concerning the submissions of my proposal.

1.Will Wizards of the Coast have trouble matching my entry and cover letter to my Idea Submission Agreement if the ISA is the only document with my parent's name?

2. Should I explain that I am a minor in the cover letter and that my parent only signed the ISA?

3. Should I just put everything in my parent's name and get it all sorted out in the event that I make the second round?

Thank you. I'm really excited about the contest and I think its a great idea.


----------



## wdodd

Gargoyle said:
			
		

> *Hopefully, the folks who come in 4th through 10th will publish their ten-page entries, and WOTC will publish the 2nd and 3rd place entries in some form.  I'd love to see what people come up with.*



I agree. Somewhere else, I suggested that WoTC publish the other two 100-page bibles as OGC (since they own all rights to the last three). That would be a nice gift back to the fans who put all their effort into submitting the one-pagers.

I'd like to see EN World host a new forum for one-pagers so people can send them in on June 22nd. Each submission in it's own thread so people can comment on each one.


----------



## mythusmage

It is my hope that Wizards will return all rights to the 2nd and 3rd place entries to their respective authors. So that they may seek alternate publishers, or perhaps publish themselves. Be good for their reputations at the very least.

But we'll see how things go.

BTW, proofread. Be merciless. Cull out typoes, misspellings, and grammatical errors. Don't try to be fancy when you write, and focus. Keep the message simple and clear. That'll give you a better chance.


----------



## Staffan

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *It is my hope that Wizards will return all rights to the 2nd and 3rd place entries to their respective authors. So that they may seek alternate publishers, or perhaps publish themselves. Be good for their reputations at the very least.
> *



Well, WOTC *does* pay the 2nd and 3rd-place entries $20,000 each. I'm not familiar with the pay rates of the gaming industries, but I would think that 20 grand is quite a big payout for 100 pages... so I would certainly not consider WOTC greedy or anything for holding on to them if they do.


----------



## Desdichado

Some of these posts border on asking Mr. Valterra to write the submission for you.  It's one thing to clarify what they want to see (I did it myself earler!), but use some judgement, folks!


----------



## Mouseferatu

Staffan said:
			
		

> *
> Well, WOTC *does* pay the 2nd and 3rd-place entries $20,000 each. I'm not familiar with the pay rates of the gaming industries, but I would think that 20 grand is quite a big payout for 100 pages... so I would certainly not consider WOTC greedy or anything for holding on to them if they do. *




Heh.  I've been freelancing for about a year and a half now, and I'll tell you straight up that if I'm ever in a position where someone will pay me $20K for 100 pages of work, I'll take the job but _quick_ and try to have it finished and get my check before their medication kicks in and they get a sudden rush of brains to the head.  

My guess is that they're paying the $20K because they want the option of doing something with the material at a later date.


----------



## realmprotector

This is a great opportunity!

I wish you all the best of luck!


----------



## TalonComics

Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many entries there will be? I'm guessing something like 2500 to 7500 entries.

~Derek


----------



## realmprotector

TalonComics said:
			
		

> *Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many entries there will be? I'm guessing something like 2500 to 7500 entries.
> 
> ~Derek *





Well, with over 50,000 registered users on the WotC message boards that number may be much higher.


----------



## mythusmage

Staffan said:
			
		

> *
> Well, WOTC *does* pay the 2nd and 3rd-place entries $20,000 each. I'm not familiar with the pay rates of the gaming industries, but I would think that 20 grand is quite a big payout for 100 pages... so I would certainly not consider WOTC greedy or anything for holding on to them if they do. *




It may be that Wizards will want to develop those proposals later. Maybe as RPGA Living Campaigns.

At the very least, allow the original authors to further develop their proposed settings for "Official ----" websites.


----------



## Ywain

wdodd said:
			
		

> *
> I'd like to see EN World host a new forum for one-pagers so people can send them in on June 22nd. Each submission in it's own thread so people can comment on each one. *




Not until the winners are announced!  Publishing the one pagers before judging is complete might compromise (or give the impression of compromising, raise the suspicion of compromising, etc.) the blind judging process.

I would suggest opening the forum for the one pagers on August 7th at the earliest, after the second cut has been made.  By then it will be down to the 100 page proposals and the one pagers will be either owned by WotC or irrelevant to the contest.


----------



## wdodd

Ywain said:
			
		

> *Not until the winners are announced!  Publishing the one pagers before judging is complete might compromise (or give the impression of compromising, raise the suspicion of compromising, etc.) the blind judging process.*



Good point. I agree that it would be better to wait.



> *I would suggest opening the forum for the one pagers on August 7th at the earliest, after the second cut has been made.  By then it will be down to the 100 page proposals and the one pagers will be either owned by WotC or irrelevant to the contest. *



July 4th might be a better date. The 10 lucky souls that are asked to do 10-page writeups can always abstain until later. And I don't see that the second and third rounds will be blind.


----------



## GralTok

Well... That is what I call luck or something... Last me and a friend decided that we will create a world ... and I wake up and come make my morning reading on EnWorld and see the contest.. Well count me in!

But I got a question as we are 2 on the project do I put only 1 name or do I put the 2 names?

And if I put the 2 names so i include 2 ISA sheet in the envellope?
And again, if I have to put 2 I am 18 and my friend is under that? So I put is mother or father?

That is the only point I need clarification.

But I also see in the faq:



> Q.	Can I submit a proposal as part of a team?
> 
> A.	Yes. You can submit as an individual or as part of a team.




So I think this mean 1 person is submitting for agroup ...

Thanks
Gral'Tok


----------



## Umbran

Interesting thought, here...

Consider the amount of thought and attention this competition will generate.  Considered as an advertisement, might that attention alone be worth the $160K in prize money?


----------



## CrusaderX

Go, SHARK, go!


----------



## tabrumj

*Technology Question*

Mr. Valterra,

When designing this setting what level of technology is too high? One of the ideas I have had involves a setting where the use of Muskets and other early firearms has just begun. Is it acceptable to have some early clockwork items such as watches or clocks in the setting.

Or in more concise terms what year in European history would you consider as too advanced.

Jeff Tabrum
Gamer 6/ Gamemaster 5/Rules Lawyer 2


----------



## Lady Dragon

I feel there are several reasons they are doing this.

1."A star is born" A lot of very talented people out there have never even attempted to get there works published  this might inspire them to try.

2.This is a good way to get most of the industry professional to submit their best stuff.Including other publishers and former industry greats who have moved on to more lucrative careers.

3.This is good way to learn what kind of campaigns their readers like to create.Yes they will read most of them.

4.FR is 15 years old and has been covered in extensive detail.All they can do know is re-cover areas they have covered befored.They are looking for something new and fresh.


----------



## teitan

arcady said:
			
		

> *
> Marvel got Wolverine from some kid for nothing more than a single issue of noteriety and probably a signed comic book.  *




That isn't how Marvel got Wolverine, they got Wolverine from Len Wein. He was the current writer of the Incredible Hulk and he was visually designed by John ROmita Sr. and Herb Trempe. He was then redesigned by Dave Cockrum when they revived the X-men in 1974.

The character that won the create a character contest appeared in the Thunderbolts sometime in the last year, though exactly when I am not sure. Aside from that the character never appeared outside of a blurb in the Bullpen Bulletins.

Jason


----------



## Hand of Evil

MMMMM, I wonder if my Plateu World is DQ'd because I have posting basic information about it here?  (at least the old boards)

Not that I could come up with a 100 pages for it in that time frame.


----------



## merc

TalonComics said:
			
		

> *Anyone want to hazard a guess as to how many entries there will be? I'm guessing something like 2500 to 7500 entries.
> 
> ~Derek *




Well, they are only giving themselves 8 business days to narrow it down to ten entries.  Less if people send them right at the deadline.  Even if it's only one page a setting, that's a lot of pages to thoughtfully consider.  All the more reason to make them professional.


----------



## River

wdodd said:
			
		

> *
> I agree. Somewhere else, I suggested that WoTC publish the other two 100-page bibles as OGC (since they own all rights to the last three). *




I'd much rather see some of the 10 pagers!

River


----------



## River

Umbran said:
			
		

> *Interesting thought, here...
> 
> Consider the amount of thought and attention this competition will generate.  Considered as an advertisement, might that attention alone be worth the $160K in prize money?  *




I think if that is what they wanted it would be splashed all over the WOTC website.  I don't think they want submissions from minors.  The word is getting out on boards like this filled with hardcore gamers.  Older gamers. 

Also the contest would run for longer and accept e-mail submissions....  No I suspect this may very well be legit.  The pay-day is crazy.   A good idea buys you a lottery ticket with a 1% chance of winning $100,000.00  Although you have to wonder about the criteria of the judges....

River


----------



## sunstaff

basically, I think this is great.

It shows how the RPG industry has done a U-turn since WoTC bought TSR.

I have to admit, I wasn't sure at the time that was a "good" thing.

I know I'm going to get slammed for this comment, but I know its better then a question about font size.

Basically, this is like a "Popstars" contest ( there I said it). everyone has about 1/4 page to grab the attention of one of the judges. It has to be orginial, but that the same time, MARKETABLE.  

Too much like FR, such as the main wizard named Minsterel, and  you're out, too orginal, and thus, appealing to only a few players and you're out. 

I think its great because now players can say and maybe even publish worlds that have eveything we hated in FR and DL left out, and Everything we loved expanded. 

Good luck to all.


----------



## mirzabah

EvilPheemy said:
			
		

> *Part of me REALLY likes the idea of being up against Monte, Bruce, Sean, or Chris or any of the other award-winning professionals who may be sending in their own little one-page proposals.  It's making me take the time to thoroughly polish and prepare my proposal.*



I don't know why so many people are wetting their pants about Monte et al submitting proposals, or puffing up their chests at the thought they may be up against the big boys and girls. A professional writer wouldn't sell anything they thought was halfway decent for USD$120,000. 120K _plus royalties_, maybe.

Like Eric or someone said, this would be a great way for someone to get a leg up into publishing. However, that doesn't make it a good deal for an established writer.


----------



## Darklone

Huh, Monte, you wouldn't write a little pager for 160K bucks?


----------



## mirzabah

Darklone said:
			
		

> *Huh, Monte, you wouldn't write a little pager for 160K bucks? *



Of course, I can't speak for Monte, but it's 120K (not 160K), it's not a 1 pager - it's a 111 pager (1 + 10 + 100) and it would have to be bloody good. Based on that material, WotC will publish at least one setting source book, numerous adventures and a swag of novels, the revenue from which the winning contestant will not get the merest whiff of.

This is not to say its a bad deal - I think it's a great idea and a fantastic opportunity. It's just not very attractive to someone werewithal to publish it themselves and who could probably get a hell of a lot more out of a great idea if they did so.


----------



## FireLance

Hi Anthony, I'm writing from some tiny island state in the middle of Asia with a couple of queries:

1. Would you accept entries from here?  Even if I send it by 21 June, it's going to take a week to reach you.

2. Is it OK to format the Idea Submission Agreement to make it fit within 2 pages?  Better still, could a .pdf be provided?

Thanks in advance.


----------



## mythusmage

Okay, let's say I published my setting myself. I keep costs down and manage to produce it for a retail price of $20.00 a copy. Now how many copies will I have to sell to make $120,000.00 ?

Wrong.

At wholesale I'd be charging about 8 bucks. Of which I'd get maybe 2 dollars after paying off all the bills. So I'd have to sell 60,000 copies to make $120,000.00. Now, how many small RPG publishers do you think have actually sold that many books? How many small RPG publishers do you think have actually sold that many setting books?

Now make it an officially licensed DnD setting book. Which may increase sales, but it would certainly add to the cost of production. 

Unless you either get real lucky, or it catches on with the gaming public, you're not going to get $120,000 for a self published setting. Besides, this is an opportunity to get your name before WotC. Even if you don't 'win', a professional submission will certainly improve your chances of winning free lance contracts with them. 

As for 111 pages being hard. Keeping it to something like 600 words a page (single spaced) that gives you around 66,600 words to write. Plus you need to be creative, communicate clearly, and write professionally. My advice to everybody out there is; don't wait until you get word back about your submission, go ahead and write that 10 page proposal and 100 page bible. Your submission passes muster you'll have them ready to send in. It doesn't you'll have a setting written up you can use in your own game, and possibly get published by a third party or publish yourself.

(Don't you hate it when you don't have a closing for an essay?)

That's my posting for now. More to come as others post and I think of things to say.


----------



## GothVader

A question for Mr. Valterra,

I am sorry to pester you on nit-picking details, but your previous posts did imply that following instructions is critical for acceptance.

As a writer, I usually use the cover letter to introduce myself, and mention my previous credits and qualifications. I may also write a paragraph or two concerning design principles of the proposal (though nothing on the actual world itself). Is this acceptable as a cover letter, or would you like it to simply be contact information?


----------



## CWD

mirzabah said:
			
		

> *I don't know why so many people are wetting their pants about Monte et al submitting proposals, or puffing up their chests at the thought they may be up against the big boys and girls. A professional writer wouldn't sell anything they thought was halfway decent for USD$120,000. 120K plus royalties, maybe.
> 
> Like Eric or someone said, this would be a great way for someone to get a leg up into publishing. However, that doesn't make it a good deal for an established writer. *




ROTFLOL
You don't know how little RPG writers make, do you?
Most of the websites I've seen offer between $0.03 and $0.05 USD per word.  If a 100 page treatment has 1,000 words per page, your talking about 100,000 words for $20,000 - thats $0.20 a word!  And $100,000 - well that's $2.00 a word!  Sure you lose the rights, but its a MUCH better deal than you could get from most RPG publishers (and you'd lose the rights with them too).  And most publishers don't allow royalties either.  I don't think Monte or anyone else could generate that kind of money from a single idea without a major corporation behind them, and a major corporation is going to want total control.

This is as much a contest as a competition, and I think its an awesome PR move with the hardcore fans.


----------



## reutbing0

mirzabah said:
			
		

> * A professional writer wouldn't sell anything they thought was halfway decent for USD$120,000. 120K plus royalties, maybe.
> 
> *



Say what ?  $120.000 is a lot of money. I Repeat : A LOT OF MONEY. People usuallly don't get rich in the RPG-business and individual writers most probably won't earn this amount of money if they published it themselves. I suspect this will be a great deal for professional writers. The odds of winning are small but if you win..Wel 120K is a lot of money.


----------



## mirzabah

Damn! I hate when I'm wrong...


----------



## mythusmage

Now convert it to Australian dollars.

Okay, figure that 7,500 send proposals in. of that about 750 will be worth looking at. Of that 75 will show hints of creativity and originality. Ten will be good enough to further pursue. 

So being creative, original, and writing well will certainly improve your chances.

In other words, even a gonzo chaot like you (old timer RPG in joke) has a chance, if you are willing to put the work in something like this demands.

So start writing and get that proposal in.


----------



## ninthcouncil

I think we'll all have to come up with a core ethos sentence stronger than: *"FORGOTTEN REALMS is a world of sword-and-sorcery adventure, where heroes battle monsters with magic."* 

A little feeble?


----------



## smetzger

Conspiracy theory says that the PO Box goes to Vince Caluori.  He plans on obsconding all the ideas and starting his own d20 company.

For those of you who are saying "It can't be for real its not on the WOTC website".  When has WOTCs website ever had a news scoop before other sites?

*:> Scott


----------



## Pielorinho

My tips for all of you entering the contest:
-Before you start writing, have a glass of wine.  In fact, polish off the bottle.  It'll open up your creativity like nothing else.
-Don't waste time poring over your submission for nitpicky little errors.  WOTC has editors who can proofread and revise for you:  you're the writer, not the grammar teacher.
-Forgotten Realms is a known success.  The more your entry emulates FR, the likelier it'll be to win.  Overlooked Counties, for example, would be an awesome name for your submission.
-Nothing says quality like exclamation points!!!!  Use lots of them! to show that you're passionate! about your setting!!!!!!
-Only squares, and Eric's Grandmother, don't like cussing.  Next to an exclamation point, a really raunchy bit of profanity is the best way to show that you care about your subject.
-Remember that you don't just demonstrate creativity through your words:  your choice of paper color, font, and even language can demonstrate that you're an original free-thinker.
-Everyone likes limericks.

If y'all follow all these rules in making your submissions, you'll make me a happy man.

Daniel
Why, yes, now that you ask, I DO plan to submit an entry.  May the best DM win!


----------



## Tallow

Well I joined this message board community solely so I could read about this contest, respond here with questions I may have for AV/Zulkir, and chat with you all about it.  I've had this home campaign detailed in my head for years.  I guess its about time I put it on paper eh?

Tallow


----------



## KDLadage

*Wow!*

I think I am still in shock.

This has got to be one of the most increadible things I have ever seen happen in the RPG business.

Yes, I have entered. No, it is not Umbragia (that I sold the print rights to, you might recall). There are a lot of good writers that will enter this contest -- I know of at least three over on the Pyramid Boards that are getting into it. Lord knows how many D&D fans will get involved (if these baords are any indication...) Add in multiple entries for single writers... and what you have is a few thousand 1-page entries that a pannel of judges will have to sift through...

Wow.

Like I said, I think I am still in shock.


----------



## wdodd

River said:
			
		

> *I'd much rather see some of the 10 pagers!*



I'd like to see those too, but WoTC won't own them and so they won't be able to publish them. I still hope that EN World will provide a place for people to post their one-pagers and ten-pagers. It should be a separate forum so each submission can be its own thread.


----------



## Arthur Tealeaf

*!!!*

120 THOUSAND DOLLARS?????????????????+

Wow! 

That could...  

THAT COULD BY ME A BRAND NEW BIKE!!!!!

WooHOO!!!

I'm entering for SURE!

Will this work?->  THE NEARLY FORGOTTEN REALMS, a setting of Axe and Wizardry where heroes battle monsters with sticks and magic!


----------



## KDLadage

*I have an idea for the 10-page submissions (once we get to that stage)*

And I posted it in this thread.


----------



## Plane Sailing

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> *My tips for all of you entering the contest:
> 
> ...snip...
> 
> Daniel
> Why, yes, now that you ask, I DO plan to submit an entry.  May the best DM win!  *




ROFLMAO! What a fantastic bunch of suggestions! I'll obviously be following every one of them while crafting my submission 

Cheers


----------



## Sigma

GothVader said:
			
		

> *A question for Mr. Valterra,
> 
> I am sorry to pester you on nit-picking details, but your previous posts did imply that following instructions is critical for acceptance.
> 
> As a writer, I usually use the cover letter to introduce myself, and mention my previous credits and qualifications. I may also write a paragraph or two concerning design principles of the proposal (though nothing on the actual world itself). Is this acceptable as a cover letter, or would you like it to simply be contact information? *




Considering that it's going to be blind judging, information about you in your cover letter is pretty much a moot point.  Neh?


----------



## Desdichado

I just posted this on another thread, but since it applies here, I'd thought I'd repost and see if I get a different set of replies...



> I find it interesting that the 1-pager template doesn't actually ask for you to describe your setting per se, instead focusing on the heroes and villains and what's different. That's an interesting angle to this whole thing.


----------



## KDLadage

Interesting angle indeed. I managed to squeeze in a few setting details (as I am sure many have) -- but it did make the "pov" for the writing in that one-pager interesting, to say the least.


----------



## Desdichado

_



*KDLadage:*
Interesting angle indeed. I managed to squeeze in a few setting details (as I am sure many have) -- but it did make the "pov" for the writing in that one-pager interesting, to say the least.

Click to expand...


_
Well, yeah, you have to.  But it makes me wonder what they're looking for.  For most campaign settings I've developed I haven't really thought too far beyond the paradigm that the heroes and villains are always doing what heroes and villains do, although I do look for something different about every campaign setting I develop, the campaign hook as it were.

If they're more focused on heroes or villains that are truly unique, then that may eliminate a lot of hopefuls who haven't really given that too much thought...


----------



## scadgrad

*Can't wait to see how all of this plays out..*

WOW!

What a great idea.  I can't wait to see how this all plays out.  It's really a win-win scenario since even if one doesn't make the final cut, at least we'll all be able to enjoy what should be a unique & exciting new campaign world.

I wonder if any details at all will be made public about the 10 finalists or if we'll be kept in the dark until the final 3.

Not to repeat the earlier cover letter question, but the point does seem to be spot-on.  AV any comments on the content of the cover letter that you could make would be greatly appreciated.

Good luck to all!

The muse is upon me...


----------



## toberane

Sigma said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Considering that it's going to be blind judging, information about you in your cover letter is pretty much a moot point.  Neh? *




Your cover letter has to contain your contact information.  That's it's main purpose, according to the information sent out by WotC.  

And in answer to the people who are mentioning that the writers won't get royalties, there wouldn't be any royalties on this 100 page bible anyway.  To my understanding, what the three finalists will produce is a broad overview of the world, its cultures, organizations, history, magic, etc.  Whenever I have seen projects with multiple writers in a shared world, that is what the word "bible" referred to.  It is not intended to be a publishable work in its final form.  It is, however, what the writers who work on the world will use to create the products and stay consistent.  As the world evolves, the "bible" will grow, and it will be used in house as a guideline for future products.  

If you read the Submission Information, at the end it mentions that the winner of this competition may receive preferential treatment when it comes to assigning authorship of the various supplements and novels.  Meaning that, at that point, you would receive other salaries and royalties on the works you authored published.  I am not familiar with WotC's policies on royalties for freelance work, and if they even offer any, but the fact that they are not offering any royalties for the 100 page bible, a book that will never be published, makes sense.  

In essence, they are paying you $120,000 for the rights to your world.  The only royalties you MIGHT get would be on future published works you author.


----------



## Tallow

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> *[/color]
> Well, yeah, you have to.  But it makes me wonder what they're looking for.  For most campaign settings I've developed I haven't really thought too far beyond the paradigm that the heroes and villains are always doing what heroes and villains do, although I do look for something different about every campaign setting I develop, the campaign hook as it were.
> 
> If they're more focused on heroes or villains that are truly unique, then that may eliminate a lot of hopefuls who haven't really given that too much thought... *



_

Yes, isn't that the truth.  I think one thing that will give people a leg up, is if they can come up with a unique way for the heroes and villains to interact.  Or perhaps a unique hero perspective that hasn't been explored entirely or at all yet.

I don't think the idea of Heroes as Villains, or Evil Heroes is what they are looking for.  But perhaps some sort of stray from the norm that would give the players another unique environment to enjoy, without it being another type of geography, terrain, or cultural/societal situation.  I dare say that I feel I've had this in my campaign for the last several years, but who knows if it will be interesting to the public at large.  Guess we will find out soon enough.

On that note, I think it would be a bad idea to stray TOO far from the norm.  Wierd or "out there" type stuff will appeal to you or perhaps a small base of people who like that niche.  

So I guess its an interesting quandry of finding something new and unique in a rather idea-saturated community without making it unmarketable.  A challenge I relish!

Tallow_


----------



## Zulkir

*Good morning*

Hey Folks,
Okay, I'm starting to get nervous about how many entries we are going to get.

First of all, anyone who is entering please don't post any of your ideas to this thread or if you feel you must make it a link to another page. As one of the judges I don't want to be biased.

Regarding minors: Yes, your parents must sign the submission form but you can write the cover letter and let us know that you are submitting and your parents are signing for you. It won't matter unless you move to the next round.

Regarding the cover letter in general - The primary purpose of the cover letter is to give us your contact information and pertinent information about who you are. However, and this is very important, it will not be looked at by the panel until after we have selected the 10 proposals we want further development on. So any information you put about your setting in the cover letter will be pointless.

Regarding team - We think teams are great. When we get to the bible we will be looking for art, the look of the campaign, sample stories, rules, ideas for minitures, TCGs, style of clothing, history etc. etc. It would be rare that one person could do all that. If you are part of a team every memeber that works on the one page must sign a submission form and be introduced in the cover letter. If you make the ten you can add members as you need them. Its up to you.

On technology - I'm not going to give you an exact answer more than I've already given. Just remeber the further you get from the core rules the more you will have to impress us. Its your call.

We will accept submissions from anywhere in the world. We only ask that it be post marked by the 21st. But if you are very far away you can do us a huge favor and send it in a bit early.

AV


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: Good morning*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> When we get to the bible we will be looking for art
> *




This is the first truly distressing thing I've seen about this fantastic opportunity...we need to be writer/illustrators now?

That's pretty disheartening.



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> It would be rare that one person could do all that.
> *




Doesn't WotC have any illustrators on staff for that kind of thing?


----------



## isirga eth

*by the way...*

KDLadage, you say you've already sold your RPG stuff. Here in MExico that is like, an unattainable utopia. WHERE did you go? WHO buys this stuff? HOW does one come around to see his RPG published, and paid for? because that's what I want to make for a living, you know.

Any advice or pointer would be greatly appreciated.

And before you suggest it... OF COURSE I will submit my fantasy setting


----------



## isirga eth

*Is that so?*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Regarding team - We think teams are great. When we get to the bible we will be looking for art, the look of the campaign, sample stories, rules, ideas for minitures, TCGs, style of clothing, history etc. etc. It would be rare that one person could do all that.
> 
> AV *




I CAN do all that, all by myself, and can prove it (I'm serious). Do I have a job?


----------



## bolen

It seems to me that the key is to have a fantastic opening sentence.  If someone wrote down that generic description that they used in the opening sentence in the example I doubt the FR would exist  It is just too bland.


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: Is that so?*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I CAN do all that, all by myself, and can prove it (I'm serious). Do I have a job?  *




Show-off!


----------



## isirga eth

*Re: Re: Is that so?*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Show-off!  *




More like "very-talented-and-desperate-RPG-designer-wannabe", actually...   

But let's not stray from the subject. Seriously, I can do all that. Am I hired?: D


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: Re: Re: Is that so?*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *
> Seriously, I can do all that. Am I hired?  *




Sadly, I imagine you'll have to withstand the submission process with all of us hopefuls...


----------



## Umbran

River said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think if that is what they wanted it would be splashed all over the WOTC website.  I don't think they want submissions from minors.  The word is getting out on boards like this filled with hardcore gamers.  Older gamers. *




So, that makes it advertising aimed at older, hardcore gamers.  What makes you think that such an advertisement must be aimed at all gamers, rather than being focused? 

Plus, the fact that we got it first does not mean that it won't be all over the WOTC pages soon enough.  I'm quite sure their message boards will fill with the news quickly 



> *Also the contest would run for longer and accept e-mail submissions....  No I suspect this may very well be legit.   *




Wait a second!  Who suggested the offer wasn't legitimate?  It sure wasn't me.  I suggested that a large motivation for the offer was advertising.  I in no way suggested that they weren't going to follow through on their offer.

Let's face it, new and interesting campaign worlds are a dime a dozen.  They don't need to shell out $160,000 to find or create one for publication.  The interest generated by the contest, however, is like gold to a game company, is it not?  

Oh, another thing they get out of this, if they so choose - market research.  They're going to see a pretty good sample of what people actually want and play in.  At the same time they see people's offers, they'll get to see what worlds we play in - and thus what kind of worlds we are interested in.  

While some of the first 10 may be really odd, unique game-worlds, I won't be surprised if a number of them are chosen as exemplars of types they see frequently in the submissions.  If they see lots of aquatic worlds, I'd expect them to think, "Hmm, aquatic worlds seem popular, let's pick the best for further development".  Good to try something really new and unique, but also good to try things that are obviously well liked among the gamers, no?


----------



## Tallow

*Art, TCG, et. al.*

I'm not so sure that Mr. Valterra meant that each submission will eventually have to include art, trading card games, novels, et. al.  I'm pretty sure what he meant was, that your 100 page bible should include all the pertinent information to which the designers/authors of said media would need.

In other words, at some point in my bible, I should describe how people dress, skin tone, hair styles, beards?, etc.  It can be quite a daunting thing for a single person to pay attention to THAT much detail across the boards of geography, society, economy, politics, religion, etc.  That isn't to say that a single person couldn't pound out very excellent 100 page documents.

For right now, a one page synopsis is all that's needed, and if later we see that we will actually need to provide, art, card game ideas, novel abstracts, etc., then we can of course find more people to create a team.

Tallow


----------



## isirga eth

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Is that so?*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Sadly, I imagine you'll have to withstand the submission process with all of us hopefuls... *




Of course; I plan to submit my entry as everybody else. I meant it BESIDES the contest (I'll withstand losing the contest much better if my many - ahem - talents get me a job to compensate  ).

And thank you for correcting the smiley, by the way


----------



## Desdichado

They can't expect too much in the way of art, because the timing doesn't allow for anything much besides pre-generated art to go into the thing.

I wouldn't get disheartened because they are going to ask for a fully fleshed out campaign bible that can be used to write and illustrate a complete FRCS type book without them having to do much of the development.  I didn't really expect anything less.


----------



## Monte At Home

*Re: Good morning*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> Okay, I'm starting to get nervous about how many entries we are going to get.
> *




I would be too. Based on the different venues this is already circulating in (among hungry fiction writers as well as gamers), I'm predicting you'll get around 5,000 submissions.

Even if 4,000 of them are crap, that's a lot to get through in just over a week.

The danger to applicants is that if the judges have to move through submissions that fast, this becomes more like a lottery than a round of submissions. So I hope I'm wrong.


----------



## Sigma

*Re: Re: Good morning*



			
				Monte At Home said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I would be too. Based on the different venues this is already circulating in (among hungry fiction writers as well as gamers), I'm predicting you'll get around 5,000 submissions.
> 
> Even if 4,000 of them are crap, that's a lot to get through in just over a week.
> 
> The danger to applicants is that if the judges have to move through submissions that fast, this becomes more like a lottery than a round of submissions. So I hope I'm wrong. *




Not only that, but judging by other threads on this board, it looks like there will be a lot of spamming.  4-10 entries from a single person in some cases.


----------



## blickish

whatisitgoodfor said:
			
		

> *
> 
> WOW!!
> 
> That is the absolute worst mis-spelling of Pratchett that I have ever seen.  *





That's funny.  I thought he said Neil Gaiman...


----------



## wdodd

*Re: Good morning*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Okay, I'm starting to get nervous about how many entries we are going to get.*



On the opengaming list I suggested we start a pool to pick the new date for second round decisions after WoTC realizes that they can't review all the submissions before everyone takes off for a long Independence Day weekend.

I'll take July 31st.


----------



## EvilPheemy

Look at it this way, it goes to show just how enthusiastic and optomistic the D&D fan base is.  Because you're looking to get overwhelming response to the search, it's showing that an enormous amont of people (as opposed to an amount of enormous people, though they're free to join in too) feel comfortable enough with WotCs treatment of D&D to throw their hat in the ring.

Of course you could make it easy on yourself, and just look for the entry with my name on it, and send a check for the $120 grand to the address accompanying it.


----------



## jester47

I hate to say it but nine out of ten of the replies to this board builds my confidence in my submission.  

Some things to keep in mind:

Do a word count on your submission.  Divide that in half if it is single spaced.  Remember this number.  Open up magic of Faerun.  Start counting words on a page that does not have any pictures.  Stop counting when you reach that number of words.  Where are you on the page.  Chances are about half way down the first column.  If so than this means that your bible will be equivalent to about 25 pages from Magic of Faerun.  Guys, thats not much.  

Think of it this way, you are making a recipie for a pastry crust.  With this recipie a whole slew of other people will make a banquet.  You might be asked to make a pie or a quiche or a strudel, but you will not make the whole banquet.  You are not the head chef, you just wrote the recipie for the pie crust. 

Aaron Webb


----------



## King_Stannis

i think WotC may have missed the boat in some respects. they should have charged $5 per submission, payable in check or money order. that would have weeded out the lowest rung and made the next rung think hard whether it will be worth it or not. plus it would have put money in their pockets.


----------



## Tom Cashel

jester47 said:
			
		

> *
> I hate to say it but nine out of ten of the replies to this board builds my confidence in my submission.
> 
> Think of it this way, you are making a recipie for a pastry crust.  With this recipie a whole slew of other people will make a banquet.  You might be asked to make a pie or a quiche or a strudel, but you will not make the whole banquet.  You are not the head chef, you just wrote the recipie for the pie crust.
> *




Another suggestion:
Proofread, proofread, proofread!


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Re: Good morning*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Hey Folks,
> Okay, I'm starting to get nervous about how many entries we are going to get.
> *




Be afraid, be very afraid.


----------



## Ywain

King_Stannis said:
			
		

> *i think WotC may have missed the boat in some respects. they should have charged $5 per submission, payable in check or money order. that would have weeded out the lowest rung and made the next rung think hard whether it will be worth it or not. plus it would have put money in their pockets. *




Can you imagine the epic slagging they would get if they charged even a single cent to submit?  T$R received its symbolic moniker by simply offering too many products (well, and being a bit agressive with their copyright defenses) for sale.  Charging fans to apply for a job would undo any goodwill that WotC has managed to squeeze from a pretty cynical fan-base.


----------



## toberane

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> *They can't expect too much in the way of art, because the timing doesn't allow for anything much besides pre-generated art to go into the thing.
> 
> I wouldn't get disheartened because they are going to ask for a fully fleshed out campaign bible that can be used to write and illustrate a complete FRCS type book without them having to do much of the development.  I didn't really expect anything less. *




I don't know, in my opinion a 100-page manuscript falls a little short of what I would consider "fully fleshed out."  When you consider that the FRCS was over 300 pages of VERY VERY small print, 100 pages of 12 point type would only make up a fraction of that.


----------



## MythicJustice

toberane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't know, in my opinion a 100-page manuscript falls a little short of what I would consider "fully fleshed out."  When you consider that the FRCS was over 300 pages of VERY VERY small print, 100 pages of 12 point type would only make up a fraction of that. *




Keep in mind that the 3 finalists are not writing the next FRCS book but the setting  bible.  The bible won't include kewl new feats, spells or fully written PrCs, rather the setting bible will flesh out the setting's mood/themes, style/images, cultures, important characters, etc. The bible is not a rules document or something which is published. It provides guidelines for writers, artists and product development for the setting.

-Chad Justice


----------



## Tallow

MythicJustice said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Keep in mind that the 3 finalists are not writing the next FRCS book but the setting  bible.  The bible won't include kewl new feats, spells or fully written PrCs, rather the setting bible will flesh out the setting's mood/themes, style/images, cultures, important characters, etc. The bible is not a rules document or something which is published. It provides guidelines for writers, artists and product development for the setting.
> 
> -Chad Justice *




Also keep in mind that the best writers don't necessarily know what it takes to create a world for gaming supplement use, and those who are great creative designers don't necessarily have the skill to write the publishable works.  Just because you make the top 3, or the top honcho for the $100,000 doesn't mean that you have the writing skill to also publish works for this world you created.  Chances are you do have the skill if you've gone that far, but it doesn't mean that you can put together the game mechanics or fluff, or fleshed out part that is required in a full-fledged supplement.

Andy Christian


----------



## Ywain

jester47 said:
			
		

> *
> Think of it this way, you are making a recipie for a pastry crust.  With this recipie a whole slew of other people will make a banquet.  You might be asked to make a pie or a quiche or a strudel, but you will not make the whole banquet.  You are not the head chef, you just wrote the recipie for the pie crust.
> 
> *




Actually, I think that it might be more accurate to say that you are conceptualizing the restaurant, setting the menu and selecting the wines for the wine list and that the chefs and interior designers are going to handle making the actual recipies and decorating the details to your specifications.

But yeah, I wouldn't expect to be cutting and pasting many (if any) prestige classes or new mechanics into the 100 page document.  The bible, which is intended to be applicable to novels, RPGs, etc., will probably be extremely mechanics-light and flavor-detail heavy.

Just my guess though, "write what you write best" is probably as good an approach as any.


----------



## toberane

MythicJustice said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Keep in mind that the 3 finalists are not writing the next FRCS book but the setting  bible.  The bible won't include kewl new feats, spells or fully written PrCs, rather the setting bible will flesh out the setting's mood/themes, style/images, cultures, important characters, etc. The bible is not a rules document or something which is published. It provides guidelines for writers, artists and product development for the setting.
> 
> -Chad Justice *




Exactly.  It will not, as has been suggested, be a publishable work.  With any luck (not to mention skill), however, WotC will hire you to write or collaborate on the campaign setting and other accessories.

Regardless, I think any game designer will quickly realize how little space there is in 100 pages to get all your ideas in.


----------



## isirga eth

*whew*



			
				toberane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Regardless, I think any game designer will quickly realize how little space there is in 100 pages to get all your ideas in. *




Not to mention ONE!!


----------



## Tallow

*Re: whew*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Not to mention ONE!! *




Exactly!  But part of, not only being a good writer, but being a good game supplement writer, is being concise.  Almost every single company that accepts submissions for something, wants a one page abstract rather than a finished work.  If you can't condense your awesome ideas into a one page eye-catcher to make any gamer drool, then you probably aren't going to be writing very many supplements.  Part of becoming a published writer, is knowing how to cut the chaff from even your own stuff.

Andy Christian


----------



## Scarogoth

*A good laugh...*



			
				Pielorinho said:
			
		

> *Don't waste time poring over your submission for nitpicky little errors.  WOTC has editors who can proofread and revise for you...
> *



Hah! That has to be one of the funniest things I've ever read!


----------



## Rasyr

CWD said:
			
		

> 3)  If they really wanted a good fantasy setting, they would have busted their butts to pick up the Lord of the Rings license instead of letting Decipher get it.




WOTC did not  _*let*_ Decipher get the license. WOTC turned it down.

TE (Tolkien Enterprises) wanted too many conditions on the license in order for somebody to get it. WOTC didn't want those restrictions, so they passed. _(note: this information was obtained from a WOTC employee, and is accurate)_


----------



## kenjib

I wonder if those 7 runner-ups have a good chance if they submit their proposals to other d20 companies for development after they aren't selected for the final 3.  It certainly means that the idea has merit.  If I ran a d20 company I would be very interested in contacting those 7 people.


----------



## River

mirzabah said:
			
		

> *. A professional writer wouldn't sell anything they thought was halfway decent for USD$120,000. 120K plus royalties, maybe.
> *




Are you crazy?  thats MAD MONEY for 100 pages.  20K is mad money for 100 pages!


----------



## ghettognome

I have another question. I was wondering if we have to have a name for our world right away. And if we don't does it reduce our chance of getting picked?


----------



## Tallow

ghettognome said:
			
		

> *I have another question. I was wondering if we have to have a name for our world right away. And if we don't does it reduce our chance of getting picked? *




Probably wouldn't be a bad idea to have at least a working name (and label it thus) so that the judges don't keep refering to "That one world with that stuff in it" over and over.

i.e.  World of Crabs (working title)  

Andy Christian


----------



## Regdar

Regdar wants to know that if people are not selected, will they be at least notified that they aren't selected?


----------



## Ashy

Anthony,

What happens if WotC does, in fact, receive thousands of entries and it is not possible to reduce that number to 10 within the alotted time?


----------



## Wolfen Priest

Regdar, I seriously doubt it.  Have you been part of the job[less] market lately?  How many job applications have you sent in that have gotten zero response?  I've found that's often the case (although I am currently employed, thank God).  This is basically just a VERY widespread job application.

I really doubt they are going to bother sending personal mail to 5000 people just to tell them "Sorry, but you didn't make it."  Plus, think of all the garbage they are going to be getting.  Most people can't write, even if they think they can.


----------



## Dr. Confoundo

Tallow said:
			
		

> *World of Crabs  *




Ya know, they have an ointment now that'll clear that right up...

Doc


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

World of Crabs: The exciting role-playing game of pimpin and prostitutes.


sorry......


----------



## Ywain

Given the subjectivity of the judging, I think that it will be possible for them to narrow the field down as quickly as they need to.  

Now if the deadline isn't carved in stone, I'm sure they will feel better about giving the submissions their due on the first read through.  But If the deadline can't be pushed back, and they do get 5,000+ entries that fulfill the basic requirements, then they'll just have to judge very quickly and harshly to narrow it down to a hundred or so that they can thoroughly consider.

This is why spelling and grammar are very important.  If they have 90 seconds to make the first read-through (weeding stage) I'm sure the entry will go in the round file at the first sight of a typo or verb disagreement.  If you've already typed up your submission and were planning on sending it out tomorrow, don't.  Take the weekend to re-read it forwards and backwards and to get friends, family and strangers to proof-read it.  Ironically, I think that they will be, by necessity, more harsh on the first round submissions than the second round 10 page treatments.


----------



## Ulrick

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *World of Crabs: The exciting role-playing game of pimpin and prostitutes.
> 
> 
> sorry...... *





I envision a world that resembles two large hams pressed together. In the center, where the hams meet, is a large canyon from which all the evils of the world burst forth...

 

_ 6. What’s new? What’s different? [What makes this setting unique?] _

It stinks.

Ulrick


----------



## kenjib

Ulrick said:
			
		

> *
> 6. What’s new? What’s different? [What makes this setting unique?]
> 
> It stinks.
> 
> Ulrick *




Hey - how on Earth did you manage to get a sneak peek at my submission?  Drats!

The World of Stinky Cheese:  A world where the forces of gouda battle fierce muensters.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Man. This thread is heading to the gutters fast.


----------



## Rahkan

*I don't know...*

Not that I have much personal experience but in creative enterprises the judges (editors) usually at least have the gumption to send out a generic rejection letter, with perhaps a few lines (words) if they think you have a speck of talent.

Also, how many proposals did you all think they were going to get? How many people write entire novels and send them in blind to publishers? The novels are utter crap, but someone still wrote them. This is one page. I slammed mine out in an hour (whether it is crap or not is debateable). Furthermore there are around a million PH-owning DnD fans out there, and at the very least 1/10th of them must be DMs. All of these have, at one time or another, set their adventures in their own world. All of these thought their world was pretty damn decent (certainly better than the much-maligned FR!). This is one page that can bring you lasting fame in the DnD community (if you make the top 10) or 20k if you win into the top 3, or the opportunity to become the next Monte Cook if you win! And all you have to do is summarize one of your past campaign settings in one page. Go out and look on the web sometime for the number of original settings, I've seen listings (in one site) of over 500. You know that every one of those people is going to send one in. Furthermore almost every d20 freelancer or professional will try his hand at one. That easily brings us well past 1000 (more like 2000). Then there are all the ancillary people who inhabit boards like these (50k on the Wizards boards alone). I'd be surprised if there were only 5000-7500. And I'd be very surprised if the judging took only 8 days.


----------



## Psionicist

What?!? Are wizards completely MAD? They give away 120000 bucks for the greatest ideas, and they put RESTRICTIONS on the ideas? The technical stuff is alright, like page numbers, but why in the name of JESUS do they remove the oppertunity of "different" settings, like planescape or some modern world? They already HAVE Forgotten Realms.

Don't they realize how GREAT ideas they can get for $120000, without the silly medival "i love elves and magic - i love elmister!" restriction?


----------



## Staffan

Psionicist said:
			
		

> *Don't they realize how GREAT ideas they can get for $120000, without the silly medival "i love elves and magic - i love elmister!" restriction? *



Had you read the rest of the thread you would have seen that they mean "medieval" in the technological sense. They might accept a Planescape or Dark Sun, but not a Shadowrun.


----------



## Lizard

mirzabah said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Like Eric or someone said, this would be a great way for someone to get a leg up into publishing. However, that doesn't make it a good deal for an established writer. *




You have an...odd...idea of what a typical writer (i.e, one not named "Stephen King") earns.

On a typical day, I can do 5K words. 100K words, thus, is 20 days work. It's also about three to four times what most full-time writers can expect to earn in a YEAR.

Or let's look at per-word rate. I get 3 cents a word; this is the low end, but it's typical. 100K word is at 3 cents a word is 3000 dollars, or, three percent of what is being offered.

This is a GREAT deal for almost any writer.


----------



## Zulkir

Ashy said:
			
		

> *Anthony,
> 
> What happens if WotC does, in fact, receive thousands of entries and it is not possible to reduce that number to 10 within the alotted time? *




We give up eating and sleeping, we live at our desks and become strangers to our families. In other words things remain pretty much the same.

I have no idea. We have a deadline to finish in that time period we will find a way to do it.

AV


----------



## Wolfspirit

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> I have no idea. We have a deadline to finish in that time period we will find a way to do it.
> AV *



Stupid thought, but are you going to start reading the submissions once the entry deadline has passed, or as soon as soon as received?

/TongueInCheekPleaseDontHurtMeSarcasmOn


			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> We give up eating and sleeping, we live at our desks and become strangers to our families. In other words things remain pretty much the same.
> *



Shedding new light on the old stereotype that Gamers are people with poor hygiene and social skills
/TongueInCheekPleaseDontHurtMeSarcasmOff


----------



## Umbran

Not that this poll is really a good statistical measure, but as of the time of this writing, those respondants who say they plan to submit will each give 1.6+ entries, on average.

Mind you, that "+" may be large.  Mr. Valterra, I don't envy you folks during the last week of this month.


----------



## mythusmage

*I Noticed Something*

The magical word, "approximately". Approximately 10. Approximately 3. Wizards has a bit of wiggle room here. They could select fewer. They could select more. If they end up with loads of submissions, they could ask as many as a hundred people to do 10 page summaries, and then pick (say) 5 to do 100 page bibles.

But only 1 will be chosen as the new setting. 

We'll see how it goes.


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: I Noticed Something*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *The magical word, "approximately". Approximately 10. Approximately 3. Wizards has a bit of wiggle room here. They could select fewer. They could select more. If they end up with loads of submissions, they could ask as many as a hundred people to do 10 page summaries, and then pick (say) 5 to do 100 page bibles.
> 
> But only 1 will be chosen as the new setting.
> 
> We'll see how it goes. *




There can be only one.

AV


----------



## Staffan

*Re: Re: I Noticed Something*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> There can be only one.
> *



There *should* have been only one.


----------



## Duncan Haldane

*Re: I Noticed Something*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *The magical word, "approximately". Approximately 10. Approximately 3. Wizards has a bit of wiggle room here. They could select fewer. They could select more. If they end up with loads of submissions, they could ask as many as a hundred people to do 10 page summaries, and then pick (say) 5 to do 100 page bibles.
> 
> But only 1 will be chosen as the new setting.
> 
> We'll see how it goes. *




And of course, there is nothing that says they have to chose even one.  When push comes to shove they may decide that none of the finalist's projects are worth developing further.

This is the equivalent of a tender process.  Submit your prospective idea and it might be asked to fulfill the tender.  But they might decide the project is unworkable.

Duncan


----------



## Voneth

blickish said:
			
		

> *
> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Originally posted by whatisitgoodfor
> 
> 
> WOW!!
> 
> That is the absolute worst mis-spelling of Pratchett that I have
> ----------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> That's funny.  I thought he said Neil Gaiman... *




I am so embarrased, I've never had such a bad typo on spelling Tad Williams before.


----------



## mythusmage

*Re: Re: I Noticed Something*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> There can be only one.
> 
> AV *




In all my past lives I've never been decapitated. I've been swallowed alive, drowned (twice), burnt at the stake, shot in the back of the head, and crucified, but never decapitated. If it's all the same to you, I'd rather forgo the honor.


----------



## Oracular Vision

The way I'd do it is to parcel out all the entries, each "reader" gets an equal pile of them, and each one separates out 10 that they like. Then everyone gets together to find the best 10 of those...This would allow dispersal of workload, and ensure that higher-quality submissions get seen by more than one person (people have their own prejudices and oddities, what one person hates another will love, etc.) That's how I would run it.

Any comments AV?


----------



## jester47

The WotC D&D website now has a bit  talking about the new setting call for papers. 

AW


----------



## Exar

*Art in one-page?*

Greetings all-

I'll be submitting an idea, too, but here is my question to Zulkir: If it fits on the one page of the submission, is some eycatching art acceptable? I am a graphic designer and I have created a simple but effective logo for my setting and placed it at the top of the page as if it were a letterhead. Is this okay, or discouraged?

Thanks for your time, and for making yourself available to answer our questions.

-Exar


----------



## Dave Blewer

Hmmm...

This is an excellent opportunity and one that I will take advantage of


----------



## Rasyr

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *I have no idea. We have a deadline to finish in that time period we will find a way to do it.
> 
> AV *




OK, here is my question...

Everybody knows of  the June 21st and July 3rd deadlines for the one page submissions, but have deadlines been set for the other phases of the search?

So, for those ten selected, is there a deadline for the submission of the ten page treatment? and one for the 100 page bible that the top three must produce? I have not heard, nor recall seeing one.


----------



## Duncan Haldane

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> OK, here is my question...
> 
> Everybody knows of  the June 21st and July 3rd deadlines for the one page submissions, but have deadlines been set for the other phases of the search?
> 
> So, for those ten selected, is there a deadline for the submission of the ten page treatment? and one for the 100 page bible that the top three must produce? I have not heard, nor recall seeing one. *




The submission guidelines document does list a date for the submission of the 10 pages (31 July, I think), and a date for when they will be decided upon.  They do not list a date for the 100 pages.  

I do find it interesting that this date put it in line for wizards to announce the 2nd stage winners at Gencon, and perhaps even show them off there.

Duncan


----------



## Rasyr

Duncan Haldane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The submission guidelines document does list a date for the submission of the 10 pages (31 July, I think), and a date for when they will be decided upon.  They do not list a date for the 100 pages.
> 
> I do find it interesting that this date put it in line for wizards to announce the 2nd stage winners at Gencon, and perhaps even show them off there.
> 
> Duncan *




Thanks, I missed that date.... I'll have to go back and reread it....

Who knows, that may have been the whole purpose behind the rigorous deadline schedule ( that and some good publicity to counter the negative generated by the Tom Federline debacle)


----------



## Tallow

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> OK, here is my question...
> 
> Everybody knows of  the June 21st and July 3rd deadlines for the one page submissions, but have deadlines been set for the other phases of the search?
> 
> So, for those ten selected, is there a deadline for the submission of the ten page treatment? and one for the 100 page bible that the top three must produce? I have not heard, nor recall seeing one. *




Re-read the information.  It  tells you when the submission date will be for the 10 page treatement and when they will make a decision on the top 3.

Andy Christian


----------



## Olidammara

Finally, an opportunity for my Adult d20 fantasy campaign to (ahem) be exposed to a larger audience! 

A world of half-orc dominatrixes and gnome love slaves ... (sigh) ...


----------



## Leopold

well ENWorld's  been /.'d so for all you geeks out there this is a great thing!


----------



## RobNJ

King_Stannis said:
			
		

> *i think WotC may have missed the boat in some respects. they should have charged $5 per submission, payable in check or money order. that would have weeded out the lowest rung and made the next rung think hard whether it will be worth it or not. plus it would have put money in their pockets. *



All this would've done is ensure that people who know about the writing biz wouldn't enter, and many, many more people would've assumed it was a hoax.  You never pay to get someone to look at your stuff.


----------



## Tolen Mar

Here's my question for Zulkir:

When you say it has to be compatible with the core rulebooks, does that mean we can't do one that relies heavily on the Psionics Handbook?


----------



## Galen

*This isn't 100 pages of text.*

This is 100 pages of techinical details, such as weather systems, industry types, dieties, classes, races, histories, heroes, pictures etc.    

This stuff has to be very well thought out, and proofed.  If you dont have the time and the team for that dont submit. 

I fully expect it would take a team of several people to get all this stuff together and organized in a professional manner within the time frame.   Not many people have that kind of detailed ability to do all these things.     

On top of all that, it would have to be loose enough to leave plenty of hooks for adventures and story lines. 

The ecosystem alone could take weeks to set up even in a small area.   What does that pack of hungry werewolfs live on?  At 65 people per square mile wouldn't be long before starvation sets in.   How many deer?   Get the point, they aren't buying a story, they are buying a campaign setting.   

For 130k they should expect the kitchen sink also. 

I just hope they have the time to shuffle thru 30000 entries.   Hmm, How many beta signups did bioware get?   Sounds like a job for temp workers.


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: Art in one-page?*



			
				Exar said:
			
		

> *Greetings all-
> 
> I'll be submitting an idea, too, but here is my question to Zulkir: If it fits on the one page of the submission, is some eycatching art acceptable? I am a graphic designer and I have created a simple but effective logo for my setting and placed it at the top of the page as if it were a letterhead. Is this okay, or discouraged?
> 
> Thanks for your time, and for making yourself available to answer our questions.
> 
> -Exar *




This is fine.

AV


----------



## Zulkir

Tolen Mar said:
			
		

> *Here's my question for Zulkir:
> 
> When you say it has to be compatible with the core rulebooks, does that mean we can't do one that relies heavily on the Psionics Handbook? *




Alternate magic systems (we would count PsiH as an alternate magic system) are acceptable. When we say comaptible we are more concerned about subtraction or revision then addition.

AV


----------



## Umbran

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *A world of half-orc dominatrixes and gnome love slaves ... (sigh) ... *




Go read _Grunts_ by Mary Gentle.  The half orcs aren't the ones you need to worry about...


----------



## Strider The Ranger

*A word of caution...*

While this announcement is surely a great start for people to get their worlds published and what-not, I must caution you all: once you give your hard work to the company, THEY own it. Sure, you will receive like 120,000 bucks (nothing to shake a stick at, that's for sure) but you will not receive royalties. If your world becomes as popular as, say, Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, you end up getting screwed. Just make sure this is something you really want to do and that you aren't too attached to the world you create. Once it's theirs, the butchering may commence to this place you have designed...
Good luck to you all....this is something I cannot bring myself to do, but for all of you who are competing, I wish you the best.


----------



## mythusmage

Strider, you'll get royalties. Not for the setting bible (which won't get published anyway) but for whatever you write for the setting.

You're good enough to write the setting bible, believe me you're good enough to write setting material. 

Wizards pick my setting you'd better believe I will do my damndest to get named as setting guru. Acting to keep the setting consistent and coherent.In addition, writing additional material both for publication and the bible (to cover situations not handled by the first edition thereof).

So I fully intend to be involved even after the beast is adopted. (Being optimistic here.)


----------



## Zappo

Ok, I'm about sure this has already been asked, but I can't find the answer. When the template says "who are the heroes" and "what they do", do you want individual heroes who are central to the setting (like 'Elminster' in the FR), or what kind of people are the heroes of the setting (like 'heroes who battle monsters with magic' in the FR)?


----------



## wdodd

*Re: A word of caution...*



			
				Strider The Ranger said:
			
		

> *If your world becomes as popular as, say, Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, you end up getting screwed.*



Of course the chances your world will becomes as popular as Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms without the marketing muscle of WoTC and their pull with distributors and retailers approaches zero. Of course, if your world does become this popular (thanks to being selected by WoTC) then you have a good chance of getting picked up to write projects for them that will generate royalties or get a designer job with another RPG company.

I think people forget that good ideas are a dime a dozen and execution is what makes great products, brands, and companies. If you are a freelancer in the RPG business you have a snowball's chance in hell of publishing a world setting that will spawn sourcebooks, adventures, CCG's, miniatures, etc. if all you have is a bright idea. If you can grow a grass roots following in your product and prove there is a market first (ala Harry Potter) then you can start to negotiate for and demand royalties on movies, accessories, etc. because your publishing partners will recognize that there is demand waiting to be filled.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Re: This isn't 100 pages of text.*



			
				Galen said:
			
		

> *This is 100 pages of techinical details, such as weather systems, industry types, dieties, classes, races, histories, heroes, pictures etc.
> 
> This stuff has to be very well thought out, and proofed.  If you dont have the time and the team for that dont submit.
> 
> I fully expect it would take a team of several people to get all this stuff together and organized in a professional manner within the time frame.   Not many people have that kind of detailed ability to do all these things.
> 
> On top of all that, it would have to be loose enough to leave plenty of hooks for adventures and story lines.
> 
> The ecosystem alone could take weeks to set up even in a small area.   What does that pack of hungry werewolfs live on?  At 65 people per square mile wouldn't be long before starvation sets in.   How many deer?   Get the point, they aren't buying a story, they are buying a campaign setting.
> 
> For 130k they should expect the kitchen sink also.
> 
> I just hope they have the time to shuffle thru 30000 entries.   Hmm, How many beta signups did bioware get?   Sounds like a job for temp workers.  *




Do I have any idea the population of my world? No
Have I developed all the ecosystems? No
Do I have a team of people to work up graphs, illustrations, and endless tiny details? No

I'm entering anyway, because all I have to do at this point is come up with 1 page of interesting ideas. If out of thousands of entrys mine is chosen then I have to get a little serious and come up with 10 pages. Then if they offer me $20,000 I will come up with a team somehow.

I think they are looking for stories MORE than they are looking for a world. look at the questions they ask:

Who are the hero's? What do they do, and why? Who are the villians?

They don't need new ecosystems, they need new modivation for players who are tired of playing the same plotlines over and over.

Just my 2 cents.


----------



## mythusmage

The sense I got was that they want to know what sort of people become heroes. Are they out of the ordinary? Or do they arise out of the commons when need arises. Are they extraordinary in some way, or ordinary people who do extraordinary things?

In other words, is it the world of Tristam, Rustum, and Hercules? Or the world of the Little Tailor?

Hope this helps.


----------



## Tallow

*Re: A word of caution...*



			
				Strider The Ranger said:
			
		

> *While this announcement is surely a great start for people to get their worlds published and what-not, I must caution you all: once you give your hard work to the company, THEY own it. Sure, you will receive like 120,000 bucks (nothing to shake a stick at, that's for sure) but you will not receive royalties. If your world becomes as popular as, say, Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, you end up getting screwed. Just make sure this is something you really want to do and that you aren't too attached to the world you create. Once it's theirs, the butchering may commence to this place you have designed...
> Good luck to you all....this is something I cannot bring myself to do, but for all of you who are competing, I wish you the best. *




For most of us, at least for myself anyways, I believe having the credit as "creator" in all the supplements attached to this would be royalties enough.

Andy Christian


----------



## Zulkir

Zappo said:
			
		

> *Ok, I'm about sure this has already been asked, but I can't find the answer. When the template says "who are the heroes" and "what they do", do you want individual heroes who are central to the setting (like 'Elminster' in the FR), or what kind of people are the heroes of the setting (like 'heroes who battle monsters with magic' in the FR)? *




The latter.

AV


----------



## Zappo

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *The latter.*



Thanks.

Hey, what if someone who followed this thread from page 1 wrote a FAQ thread? It could be useful.


----------



## Tallow

*FAQ*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *Thanks.
> 
> Hey, what if someone who followed this thread from page 1 wrote a FAQ thread? It could be useful. *




Hey that is a great idea!  I think you just volunteered  

Andy Christian


----------



## Zappo

*Re: FAQ*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *Hey that is a great idea!  I think you just volunteered *



Wh... what? You joking? I can't, I'm too lazy and I'm going to see Spiderman this evening (which would be, about in half an hour). Someone else do the work.

...hmm...

...hey, AV, do you have a few minutes?


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: FAQ*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *Wh... what? You joking? I can't, I'm too lazy and I'm going to see Spiderman this evening (which would be, about in half an hour). Someone else do the work.
> 
> ...hmm...
> 
> ...hey, AV, do you have a few minutes?
> 
> *




Spiderman is only 2 and a half hours, give ya 30 minutes drive tops, geeze man, you gonna go to bed at 7pm tonight?

Andy Christian


----------



## SoulsFury

There is nothing in the template about pantheons. Thats wierd since both FR and DL have an extensive history that directly involves the immortals. I guess gods don't generate books?

Nik


----------



## Rasyr

SoulsFury said:
			
		

> *There is nothing in the template about pantheons. Thats wierd since both FR and DL have an extensive history that directly involves the immortals. I guess gods don't generate books?
> 
> Nik *




There doesn't need to be anything in the template about pantheons. Information like that would first be introduced in the ten page treatment, and then fully expanded upon in the bible.

The main purpose (in my opinion) of the template for the single page is to 

1) See ifthe applicants can follow directions

2) See if the applicant can develop a concept for a setting that would be new and exciting

3)See how well the applicant can write, as shown by how well (and how much) information is passed in the few short paragraphs that are asked for.


----------



## Mouseferatu

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> 3)See how well the applicant can write, as shown by how well (and how much) information is passed in the few short paragraphs that are asked for. *




Or even in a single short sentence.  

They want the "core ethos" of a campaign world in one sentence?  One that presumably gives more info than the generic "People fight stuff and use magic" example they gave for FR?  I'm having to jump through all kinds of grammatical hoops to keep my "core ethos" sentences from becoming serious run-ons.


----------



## Tallow

mouseferatu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Or even in a single short sentence.
> 
> They want the "core ethos" of a campaign world in one sentence?  One that presumably gives more info than the generic "People fight stuff and use magic" example they gave for FR?  I'm having to jump through all kinds of grammatical hoops to keep my "core ethos" sentences from becoming serious run-ons.   *




I think some of you may be missing the point of the first sentence.  While yes, it is to work alot like a thesis statement, to give the reader an idea of the supposition that you are attempting to show proof, it would be a mistake to try to include too much information in your first sentence.

You should treat this first sentence more like a Journalistic Headline or the first sentence of a newspaper article.  It should scream "READ ME!"  If the reader gets bored or confused halfway through the sentence, they are more likely not to want to read the rest of the paper, even though its only one page.

The example given is actually a good example of the conciseness that you should be looking for.  State it simply, dynamically, and in a way that will catch the eye of the reader.

i.e.  "The World of Crabs is a dynamic environment of chitenous creatures and dark magic where mundane people battle fearsome foes with brawn and wits!"

Now granted that sentence is probably too long for what I'm talking about, and it may not be 100% grammatically correct, as I just pounded it out in 30 seconds, but it suites the point I'm trying to make.  Don't try to say everything in your statement, just find two or three points that makes your world exciting, and use that to make the reader say, "Geez, I wanna check out this world, it sounds SOOOOO cool!"

Andy Christian


----------



## Mouseferatu

Tallow:

Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually writing paragraph-long sentences.  I'm just saying that some concepts require more than a brief statement to truly get the point across.

And I'm just not fond of the FR example they gave; to me, it doesn't particularly make the setting seem interesting, let alone unique.  I mean, the description applies to almost every sword-and-sorcery fantasy setting ever created, ya know?


----------



## Tallow

mouseferatu said:
			
		

> *Tallow:
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually writing paragraph-long sentences.  I'm just saying that some concepts require more than a brief statement to truly get the point across.
> 
> And I'm just not fond of the FR example they gave; to me, it doesn't particularly make the setting seem interesting, let alone unique.  I mean, the description applies to almost every sword-and-sorcery fantasy setting ever created, ya know?  *




Yes, I agree, and that's the difficult part.  Finding a way to be both concise and inclusive.

Andy Christian


----------



## Olidammara

*Re: A word of caution...*



			
				Strider The Ranger said:
			
		

> *While this announcement is surely a great start for people to get their worlds published and what-not, I must caution you all: once you give your hard work to the company, THEY own it. Sure, you will receive like 120,000 bucks (nothing to shake a stick at, that's for sure) but you will not receive royalties. If your world becomes as popular as, say, Greyhawk or Forgotten Realms, you end up getting screwed. Just make sure this is something you really want to do and that you aren't too attached to the world you create. Once it's theirs, the butchering may commence to this place you have designed...
> Good luck to you all....this is something I cannot bring myself to do, but for all of you who are competing, I wish you the best. *




Excellent point. And definitely something to weigh: Do you want lots of money and fame for countless hours of effort, OR should you keep the campaign under wraps to preserve its integrity and maintain your current standard of living? ...
That's a toughie.


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: A word of caution...*



			
				Olidammara said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Excellent point. And definitely something to weigh: Do you want lots of money and fame for countless hours of effort, OR should you keep the campaign under wraps to preserve its integrity and maintain your current standard of living? ...
> That's a toughie. *




<ROFL> that' s hilarious.  I love the tongue in cheek there. 


I think some folks are under the misguided perception, that they could make more than 120grand on their world if they didn't sell the rights to WotC.  If they buy your world there is a very good chance you will write supplements or at least parts of the campaign setting book for them.  Their marketing department is much better than almost any I've ever seen.  You will screw yourself if you choose not to do this simply cause you think WotC will screw you.

Andy


----------



## Olidammara

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think some of you may be missing the point of the first sentence.  ...
> 
> *




Nice touch of irony. Very subtle.
A badly written submission guideline seeking examples of good writing? (heh) If you have to explain the sentence, then it's obviously not accomplishing what was intended.

(Or so says a newspaper journalist with 15 years of writing/editing experience.)

Sorta makes one wonder how much skill will be applied to judging the submissions. -- "I don't know how to 'splain good cypherin', but I knows it when I sees it!"


----------



## Tallow

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Nice touch of irony. Very subtle.
> A badly written submission guideline seeking examples of good writing? (heh) If you have to explain the sentence, then it's obviously not accomplishing what was intended.
> 
> (Or so says a newspaper journalist with 15 years of writing/editing experience.)
> 
> Sorta makes one wonder how much skill will be applied to judging the submissions. -- "I don't know how to 'splain good cypherin', but I knows it when I sees it!" *




True, or as is often the case (and will be with the thousands of discarded ideas that don't follow the most basic and well spelled out rules of this contest) many folks just don't read for comprehension, they see what they want to see.

Andy Christian


----------



## Zappo

*Re: Re: Re: FAQ*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *Spiderman is only 2 and a half hours, give ya 30 minutes drive tops, geeze man, you gonna go to bed at 7pm tonight?*



Ahem.
1) I live in Padova, northeastern Italy, GMT +1.
2) I've just returned from the movie (cool!)
3) It's fifty past midnight.
 Sometimes the Internet plays funny jokes.


----------



## Wolfspirit

*Re: FAQ*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> Hey that is a great idea!  I think you just volunteered
> *




Ok, I'm not Zappo, but here goes (note, if I missed anything, or changed the meaning of anything in my editing, let me know, ok?)

Fantasy Setting Search FAQ

Editors note:
Q:  Is this thing for real?
A:  Yes.  If you don't trust Eric Noah, Morrus, and a slew of others, check out the Wizards main page.

All of the rest of the answers below are from Anthony Valterra, Category Manager TRPGs from Wizards of the Coast.  I did a bit of editing for clarity and gramar, but if you think I'm trying to mislead you, read the 13 page thread.

GENERAL CAMPAIGN
Q:  What do you mean when you say you're looking for something like FR or DL?
A:  We are looking for fantasy medieval settings.  So that is what we mean when we say FR or DL. But if someone brought us Ravenloft or Mystara or Darksun they would all be close enough to be in the running.

Q:  How far can we stray from the "Swords and Sorcery" genre?
A:  We are looking for a product that you can use the core rule books for. We are open to new classes, races, maybe even spell systems. But the further you stray, the more impressive you are going to need to be. And don't bother with non-medieval. I don't care how good the proposal we are not looking for Shadowrun.  

Q:  You say "medieval", but how far is too far for politics and technology for this setting?
A:  Once you have common use of gunpowder you're probably to far on technology.  Variant political or social milleus are all fine. We are concerned about technological level not political structure.

Q:  Are spell systems like psionics ok?
A:  Alternate magic systems (we would count PsiH as an alternate magic system) are acceptable. When we say comaptible we are more concerned about subtraction or revision then addition.  Editors note:  I believe that the PsiH refers to the Psi Handbook version of psionics.


Q:  I've had information about my campaign world on the internet before.  Is this a problem?
A:  If you have a campaign setting and it has been made public, but not published you can submit it if you wish. But we will probably want to avoid setting that have been previously published.  However, anyone who is entering please don't post any of your ideas to this thread or if you feel you must make it a link to another page. As one of the judges I don't want to be biased.

Q:  On number 2 of the template, it asks about the heroes of the setting.  Is this wanting NPCs like Elminster, or what?
A:  On heroes what we are look for is broad outlines of who becomes heores in your world and why. Are they adventureres, fighting injustice, out to make a buck, some combination etc. etc. We don't need actual characters until the 10 page.

FORMAT

Q:  What document format are you wanting on the one-pager?
A:  On format, we are not picky as long as it is professional. Double or single, either is fine. Obviously if we get six point type and no margins we are going to toss it, just like we are going to toss anything not typed (put away your crayons).  Either paragraphs or numbered is fine as long as you answer all six topics clearly

Q:  What do you want on the cover letter?
A:  The primary purpose of the cover letter is to give us your contact information and pertinent information about who you are. However, and this is very important, it will not be looked at by the panel until after we have selected the 10 proposals we want further development on. So any information you put about your setting in the cover letter will be pointless.

Q:  How serious are you about the one page requirement?
A:  If your submission is longer than one page it will get roundfiled! This is the "are you capable of following simple directions" test

LEGAL

Q:  What happens to the rights of my work if I submit it, but don't get to the top 3?
A:  You own your work until you are one of the top 3. Yes, that is right we will only ask for the rights to the top 3 proposals.

Q:  Will big name people be eligble/entering this?
A:  Yes we have our own R&D many of them will be submitting. Judging will be done blind. All R&D submittees are under strict gag order. If they talk to anyone about their ideas before we judge - it is eliminated from consideration. And yes, part of the reason we are doing this is that two of the biggest campaigns came from out of house.

Q:  I live in Europe, Asia, and have a Summer Home at the top of Mount Everest, and am not sure if I'll be able to get my letter to you by the deadline.  What should I do about this?
A:  Please note that entries must be "postmarked" by the deadline. Sending it early is still a good idea though.

Q:  Can I submit more than one entry?  How about more than one entry in one envelope?
A:  You can submit two entries in the same envelope. They will be processed by our admin so we won't know that you sent in more than one.

Q:  I'm a minor.  Should my parents sign the submission form?
A:  Yes, your parents must sign the submission form but you can write the cover letter and let us know that you are submitting and your parents are signing for you. It won't matter unless you move to the next round.

Q:  Can I work with a team of people to make a submission?
A:  We think teams are great. When we get to the bible we will be looking for art, the look of the campaign, sample stories, rules, ideas for minitures, TCGs, style of clothing, history etc. etc. It would be rare that one person could do all that. If you are part of a team every memeber that works on the one page must sign a submission form and be introduced in the cover letter. If you make the ten you can add members as you need them. It's up to you.


----------



## am181d

Bah.  You beat me to it.  Oh well.  I've spent the last hour compiling this for my brother (who doesn't have regular web access), so here it is anyway:

[The other reason I'm including this is that there are a few answers culled from other sources:  the WotC boards and the OGF listserv; all quotes are from Anthony Valterra.]

*A SECOND UNOFFICIAL FAQ*

[Remember that there is ALSO an official FAQ that Wizards has released along with the rest of the forms!]

*GENERAL*

Q. Is this for real?

A. “This is genuine.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Doesn’t Wizard’s timeline seem aggressive?

A. “I know the timeline seems aggressive but we are only looking for a one page submission.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)


*FORMAT*

Q. Can my proposal REALLY only be one page long?

A. “If your submission is longer than one page it will get roundfiled! This is the ‘are you capable of following simple directions’ test.  I guarantee that we will be tossing a whole wad of multi-page proposals because someone can’t follow directions.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. If it fits on the one page of the submission, is some eycatching art (such as a logo) acceptable?

A. “This is fine.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Should proposals include the original questions themselves, or just the answers in paragraph form?

A. “Either paragraphs or numbered is fine as long as you answer all six clearly.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. How picky will you be on format (beyond what is explicitly covered in the instructions)?

A. “On format, we are not picky as long as it is professional. Double or single, either is fine. Obviously if we get six point type and no margins we are going to toss it, just like we are going to toss anything not typed (put away your crayons).”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)


*CONTENT*

Q. What kind of settings are you looking for?

A. “We are looking for fantasy medieval settings.  That is what we do best.  So that is what we mean when we say FR or DL.  But if someone brought us Ravenloft or Mystara or Darksun, they would all be close enough to be in the running.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

 Q. How far can we stray from the genre?

A. “We are looking for a product that you can use the core rule books for. We are open to new classes, races, maybe even spell systems. But the further you stray the more impressive you are going to need to be. And don't bother with non-medieval I don't care how good the proposal we are no looking for Shadowrun.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Can my setting make use of firearms?

A. “Once you have common use of gunpowder you're probably too far. All of the other ideas are fine. Variant political or social milleus are all fine. We are concerned about technological level not political structure.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Give me an exact answer on the use of technology in my setting!

A. “I'm not going to give you an exact answer more than I've already given. Just remeber the further you get from the core rules the more you will have to impress us. Its your call.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Can I submit a proposal for d20 Modern instead?

A. “Regarding d20 Modern - no we are not interested in submissions for d20 modern only D&D. And no we are not limited to Eurocentric. Medieval should be read as a time period or a technology level not a cultural or geographical location.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Are alternate magic systems (I would count PsiH as an alternate magic system) acceptable?

A. “Alternate magic systems (we would count PsiH as an alternate magic system) are acceptable. When we say comaptible we are more concerned about subtraction or revision then addition.” (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

 Q.  Why would you want to do this if all you’re looking for is another Greyhawk, Forgotten Realms or Dragonlance?

A. “Well, they all made millions of dollars that's why. I pray we end up with another one.” (source:  WotC Message Boards)

Q. Can I submit my campaign setting, if it has already been published or made public?

A. “If you have a campaign setting and it has been made public, but not published you can submit it if you wish. But we will probably want to avoid setting that have been previously published.”   “We are looking for worlds that we can own outright, and will probably favor original works since we want full freedom to develop in the way we want.” (source:  Enworld Message Boards, OGF Listserv)

Q. What do you mean by #2 on the template (“Who are the heroes?”)?

A. “On heroes what we are look for is broad outlines of who becomes heores in your world and why. Are they adventurers, fighting injustice, out to make a buck, some combination etc. etc. We don't need actual characters until the 10 page.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Any words of wisdom?

A. “Someone on this list pointed out that the best thing to do is keep in mind that we could be reading hundereds of these submissions and that you should keep that in mind. So the more you can do to make our job easier the better the chances are you will get paid attention to. If for whateever reason we have to work to read your entry we are likely to give up quick.” (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Anything else?

A. “Also keep in mind that you are proposing a world that will be used for RPGs, novels, minis and maybe TCGs. You might want to keep that in mind as you are creating - leave room for all of the above.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)


*RIGHTS*

Q. At what point do we sign away rights to our creations?

A. “Oh, someone asked about ownership. Yes, you own your work until you are one of the top 3. Yes, that is right we will only ask for the rights to the top 3 proposals.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Am I signing away all kinds of legal rights when I complete the submission form? 

A. “The submission form is a few pages of legalesse. what it says, in essence is that you are submitting an idea and you recognize that it is possible that parts of that idea may be submitted by somebody else. If we pick somebody else you can't sue because one of your ideas happens to be in some other persons proposal - it could actually be a coincidence. Now, here is the important part: At this point you have not signed over your idea!!!! You still own it 100%.”  (source:  WotC Message Boards)

Q. If I make it to round two, but have a change of heart, can I withdraw my entry?

A. “If you are chosen to move to the next submission level you may refuse if you wish and retain your rights.”  (source:  WotC Message Boards)


*WHO CAN SUBMIT?*

Q. Will Wizards of the Coast staff be submitting proposals?  If so, how is that fair? 

A. “Yes we have our own R&D many of them will be submitting. Judging will be done blind. All R&D submittees are under strict gag order. If they talk to anyone about their ideas before we judge - it is eliminated from consideration. And yes, part of the reason we are doing this is that two of the biggest campaigns came from out of house.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. What about professional authors?

A. “The proposal has also gone out to author's and author agents so a proposal from a name author is not impossible.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Should the person submitting the proposal be able to write a sentence and/or follow directions?

A. “We will be giving favored status (for RPG, novels, minis maybe even TCG development) to the creator/creators of this world we would like someone who can write a sentence and follow directions.”  (source:  WotC Message Boards)


*FOREIGNERS*

Q. I live in a remote, obscure or otherwise ridiculous part of the world.  Can I still participate?

A. “We will accept submissions from anywhere in the world. We only ask that it be post marked by the 21st. But if you are very far away you can do us a huge favor and send it in a bit early.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Muß mein Antrag auf englisch sein? Ich bin nicht von hier.

A. “As long as they are written in English anyone anywhere in the world can submit.”  (source:  WotC Message Boards) 

Q. Do you penalise for English-English spellings versus American English?

A. “This would be considered a non-issue. In other words don't worry about it.” (source:  WotC Message Boards)


*MULTIPLE SUBMISSIONS*

Q. Can I submit a million proposals?

A. “Absolutely, but I would focus on making really good submissions rather than shot gunning.”  (source: OGF Listserv)

Q. Can I submit two proposals in the same envelope?

A. “You can submit two in the same envelope. They will be processed by our admin so we won't know that you sent in more than one.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards) 


*COVER LETTERS*

Q. What is the primary purpose of the cover letter?

A. “The primary purpose of the cover letter is to give us your contact information and pertinent information about who you are.”  “It must be a seperate page as we will be judging these submission blind.”  (source:  Enworld and WotC Message Boards) 

Q. Can I put setting information in the cover letter?

A. “It will not be looked at by the panel until after we have selected the 10 proposals we want further development on. So any information you put about your setting in the cover letter will be pointless.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. Can minors write their own cover letters?

A. “Yes, your parents must sign the submission form but you can write the cover letter and let us know that you are submitting and your parents are signing for you. It won't matter unless you move to the next round.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)


*OTHER ISSUES*

Q. Should I post my ideas for a proposal in a thread Anthony has been reading?

A. “Please don't post any of your ideas to this thread or if you feel you must make it a link to another page. As one of the judges I don't want to be biased.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)

Q. What are your thoughts on teams?

A. “We think teams are great. When we get to the bible we will be looking for art, the look of the campaign, sample stories, rules, ideas for miniatures, TCGs, style of clothing, history etc. etc. It would be rare that one person could do all that. If you are part of a team every memeber that works on the one page must sign a submission form and be introduced in the cover letter. If you make the ten you can add members as you need them. Its up to you.”  (source:  Enworld Message Boards)


----------



## SteveMND

Excellent distillation, Wolfspirit!  Thanks.  I had been keeping copies of Anthony's comments on my hard drive, but this is much easier to read.

And speaking of concise renditions of related material, here's a more-or-less direct tranlation of the legal form from Legalese into English:



> 1.  a. You are aware of exactly what the heck you are participating in, and Wizards doesn't have a bit of obligation to you just because you send a submission in.  If things progress, it'll only be because Wizards says so, and they'll figure out the legal fiddly bits then.
> 
> b. The stuff you are submitting is YOURS and yours alone.  It doesn't belong to your roomate, or your DM, or anybody else, and no other party will come knocking on their doors later stating that that was their stuff, or that they have any sort of rights to it.  There are no strings attached, etc. that Wizards would have to deal with.
> 
> c. You agree that for all you know, Wizards may in fact be working on something similar or exactly the same as what you are submitting, and if so, don't come whining to them later stating that they are using your stuff without permission, whether or not you advance beyond this stage of the process.
> 
> d. Don't send your only copy of this stuff; it's not Wizard's responsibility to replace it if they lose it.
> 
> 2.  In the course of this process, you may be given access to certain material that Wizards has not yet made public or is still working on, and thus is still hush-hush.  You agree to keep your big mouth shut about all that until it's made public by some means.
> 
> 3.  You agree to NOT hold Wizards responsible for ANYTHING that ever happens to ANYBODY that is in ANY WAY connected to this Setting Search, for ever and ever, AMEN.
> 
> 4.  a.  This agreement is all there is right now.  Just this one document, and if changes need to be made to it, or added to it, it'll have to be okayed by both parties then.
> 
> b. You have read all of this stuff, know what it says and means, and are voluntarily agreeing to it.
> 
> c. The requested submission is attached to this sheet here.




No legal guarantees on the accuracy of my above translation, but it's all pretty standard legal boilerplate, actually. 

Steve MND


----------



## Wolvorine

*Okay, I have a question*

AV:  For the first round, we are given a template to work off of, which is fabulous.  I was just wondering, will we be given templates (even rough ones) for the following rounds?  I've always wanted to write up the worlds I create, but could never decide on a format to structure it all in.

Thanks,


----------



## mythusmage

*Re: Okay, I have a question*



			
				Wolvorine said:
			
		

> *AV:  For the first round, we are given a template to work off of, which is fabulous.  I was just wondering, will we be given templates (even rough ones) for the following rounds?  I've always wanted to write up the worlds I create, but could never decide on a format to structure it all in.
> 
> Thanks, *




Start with an outline. Begin by launching your word processor. Most WPs today have an outlining function you can use. Even if your version doesn't it aint that hard to do.

First: Decide on your document's main topics. List them. Rearrange the order until it looks right.

Second: Beneath each of the main topics list those sub-topics you think are relevant. For instance, under "Life Forms" you could list, "Animals, plants, monsters, abberations, etc." Continue on with any sub-sub, sub-sub-sub, etc. topics you wish to include. With a 10 page document you should only need sub-sub-topics.

Third: Once you have all the topics, sub-topics, and sub-sub-topics listed, start writing. First write a sentence about the first main topic. Then one about the first sub-topic under the first main topic, and so on and so forth. It's doubtful you'll get a full ten pages out of it, but you can always go back and add to what you've said. 

For further information check with your public or university library on the subject of writing. You should be able to find books on the mechanics of all aspects of writing. 

Good luck with your project.


----------



## zyzzyr

*Additional team members at second stage?*

Hi AV,

I don't want to sound like I am counting unhatched chickens, but what happens if I make it to the next level, then decide that I need help and enlist a few new team members?  Or if a team member from step 1 decides to bail out?  In other words, are the team members considered to be "set in stone" on the first proposal?

I can see a situation where Joe submits his idea, it gets accepted, he goes to the next level, it gets accepted, he goes for the end, and realizes he can't do it all himself.  Would he subcontract?  Get some buddies?  etc.

Thanks,

zyzzyr


----------



## zyzzyr

*Setting spam?*

The fallout from this on the d20 market will be interesting.  I'd be curious to see how many of the 10-pagers continue on to develop an entire world and then try to sell it to a publisher for d20.

Of course, this means we might see a glut of settings all at once.


----------



## am181d

*Re: Additional team members at second stage?*



			
				zyzzyr said:
			
		

> *In other words, are the team members considered to be "set in stone" on the first proposal?*




Anthony already said, "If you make the ten you can add members as you need them. It's up to you."  C'mon, guys.  The compilation I put together is long winded and boring, but Wolfspirit did a good job of consolidating the information.  Please read it over (and all of the official rules and FAQs) before posting.


----------



## jester47

mouseferatu said:
			
		

> *Tallow:
> 
> Don't get me wrong, I'm not actually writing paragraph-long sentences.  I'm just saying that some concepts require more than a brief statement to truly get the point across.
> 
> And I'm just not fond of the FR example they gave; to me, it doesn't particularly make the setting seem interesting, let alone unique.  I mean, the description applies to almost every sword-and-sorcery fantasy setting ever created, ya know?  *




The FR example is by no means accurate.  I have seen the actual sentence for FR.  It looks nothing like the one they gave.

AW


----------



## JoeCrow

jester47 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The FR example is by no means accurate.  I have seen the actual sentence for FR.  It looks nothing like the one they gave.
> 
> AW *




Really? Could you give us a rough idea how it went? Could come in handy as an example...


----------



## Wolvorine

*Re: Re: Okay, I have a question*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *Start with an outline. Begin by launching your word processor. Most WPs today have an outlining function you can use. Even if your version doesn't it aint that hard to do.
> 
> First: Decide on your document's main topics. List them. Rearrange the order until it looks right.*




Now this is one of my problems, figuring out what the categories are.  What's really vital?  What just simply *has got* to go in?  That seems like the best place to start to me.  I've tried picking up pre-published settings, but who wants to copy one like that?  I don't know plagerism laws, so not me.   And really, if there was an outline/template premade that you could refer to like that, it would _make_ you think of details you may have overlooked.  Creative spurs are always a godsend.



> *For further information check with your public or university library on the subject of writing. You should be able to find books on the mechanics of all aspects of writing.
> Good luck with your project. *




Well, one bonus I do have is that I have a dormant writer as a spouse.   And while she doesn't write that much herself lately, she's a wonderful editor. hehe
Thanks for the well-wishes, and the advice.


----------



## kenjib

I've got a question now that I'm working on a submission.



> 4.	Threats, Conflicts, Villains  (What is the main danger to the world, and from whom does it come?)




The fact that this indicates a single predominant threat to the world seems to imply that WotC would prefer submissions with a strong "save the world against enemy X" theme, kind of along the lines of Dragonlance, Middle Earth, or Scarred Lands.  Forgotten Realms and Greyhawk, on the other hand, have a more wide range of villains with diverse goals, none of them necessarily at the "save the world against them" level.  If you tried to answer this for these two settings you would have a long list of regional villains rather than a single world-wide enemy.

The fact that they want strong fiction material does lend support to this as epic conflicts against an all powerful enemy are a staple and generally well received in fantasy fiction.  They could have easily worded it "what are the major dangers of the world and from whom do they come" instead, which would have been more inclusive.  I'm probably just reading too much into this though.  Thoughts?


----------



## Wolfspirit

kenjib said:
			
		

> *They could have easily worded it "what are the major dangers of the world and from whom do they come" instead, which would have been more inclusive.  I'm probably just reading too much into this though.  Thoughts? *




Well, for one thing, Forgotten Realms has been out for a long time, and thus has had the creative input of a whole lot of people over the years.

If Greenwood had been making Forgotten Realms a submission to this Search (before it was a real setting), under villains he'd probably include "The Zhentarim, an evil army of merchants dedicated to taking over the world" or something like that.  I really doubt that he'd be able to send in a 191 page Lords of Darkness in response to that question way back then


----------



## Kordeth

*Cover Letter Question*

I have a quick question about the cover letter--it's probably kind of silly and pointless, but I'm going to ask anyways because the submissions are blind, so Anthony and the other judges can't go "Hey!  This is that guy that asked that silly pointless question!  In the bin with this one!"

Okay, so, the question is:  Whom do we address the cover letter to?  I know what address it's to be sent to, but I just want a name to stick at the top.  I know, I know, blind submissions and all that, but at college I had it drilled into my skull that you never head a letter "To Whom It May Concern" if you can help it.


----------



## Ghostwind

I would suggest merely addressing it to either To Whom It May Concern or Members of the Selection Committee


----------



## grushnik

I recommend the following:

------------------
Dear overleaders, you who makes the universe worthwhile, you who make the birds sing, you whose every word is a drop of honey,

Please select my world.

From 
your flunky


----------



## Talaysen

To be clear:

I should put my name (and, of course, my contact info) in the cover letter, but I should NOT put my name on the entry itself? That's what it sounds like to me, from certain previous answers, but I'm unclear on this point.


----------



## mythusmage

*Re: Re: Re: Okay, I have a question*



			
				Wolvorine said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Now this is one of my problems, figuring out what the categories are.  What's really vital?  What just simply has got to go in?  That seems like the best place to start to me.  I've tried picking up pre-published settings, but who wants to copy one like that?  I don't know plagerism laws, so not me.   And really, if there was an outline/template premade that you could refer to like that, it would make you think of details you may have overlooked.  Creative spurs are always a godsend.
> 
> Well, one bonus I do have is that I have a dormant writer as a spouse.   And while she doesn't write that much herself lately, she's a wonderful editor. hehe
> Thanks for the well-wishes, and the advice.   *




Okay, what sort of world is it? What and who inhabit the world? What perils do they face? How do they get along with each other?

For my part I used (in part) the following main topics: background, geography, nations and people. There are others, but that should give you the idea. Or you can use different main topics. 

Go through all the subjects that make up the world and eliminate those that really belong under other topics. For example, the Flurgal Beast really belongs under 'monsters'. Which, in turn, belongs under, 'lifeforms'.

If all else fails, expand on the answers you gave to the 6 questions on the one page preliminary submission.

Hope this helped.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*outline for 10 page*

The DMG has a chapter on "Worldbuilding". You could base your outline on how that chapter is set up.


----------



## jester47

JoeCrow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Really? Could you give us a rough idea how it went? Could come in handy as an example... *




If you can't find it before then, I will post it here on June 22. 

|^)

ZOT!!! tehehe

AW


----------



## Arthur Tealeaf

*Question*

Would it be possible to include a very simple illustration or diagram, just for explaining something that's not easily explained through words???

Just something like a circle, a square and maybe an arrow and some words to tell you what it is, nothing more complicated than that.  Something that takes up veeery little of a page.

Now, please answer this, 'cause it might be important...

(okay, I admit, important to ME and MY PROPOSAL! Mwahahaha!)


----------



## Wolfspirit

*Re: Question*



			
				Arthur Tealeaf said:
			
		

> *Would it be possible to include a very simple illustration or diagram, just for explaining something that's not easily explained through words???
> *




Q. If it fits on the one page of the submission, is some eycatching art (such as a logo) acceptable?
A. “This is fine.”


----------



## Wolfspirit

Talaysen said:
			
		

> *To be clear:
> 
> I should put my name (and, of course, my contact info) in the cover letter, but I should NOT put my name on the entry itself? That's what it sounds like to me, from certain previous answers, but I'm unclear on this point. *




Proposals should be no more than one page in length, typewritten. Please put the name of the entrant in the LOWER LEFT-HAND CORNER of the page and nowhere else

-from the announcement

(my guess is that they're wanting the name in case the two get separated, but are going to rip it off before sent to judges.  Like standardized tests


----------



## Talaysen

Oh - d'oh, I remember reading that part now. Thanks.


----------



## Ozy

Question: is it acceptable to include a background paragraph, especially if this has a large impact on the answers to the listed questions?

Ozy


----------



## Ghostwind

As long as everything fits on a single page, you can put whatever the heck you wish.  Just make sure you answer the basic 6 template questions.  If there is still adequate room on the page, you can add whatever else you deem to be of importance.  Remember folks, this is only a one page synopsis.  You don't have to fill the page with the entire history of your world.  Keep it simple and keep it professional.  And proofread the heck out of it.


----------



## Voneth

mirzabah said:
			
		

> *I don't know why so many people are wetting their pants about Monte et al submitting proposals, or puffing up their chests at the thought they may be up against the big boys and girls. A professional writer wouldn't sell anything they thought was halfway decent for USD$120,000. 120K plus royalties, maybe.
> 
> Like Eric or someone said, this would be a great way for someone to get a leg up into publishing. However, that doesn't make it a good deal for an established writer. *




What the heck is your definition of a professional writer?!?

A recent survey shows that the number of authors who can live off their own writing has shrunk from 50% to less than 25%. And most of them (even writers you probably read right now) don't become self-sufficent until they write their 7th book.

For the amount of work asked for compared to the work and pitching they and their agents have to do for a real novel, this contest is a dream come true.

Never mind the idea of getting a one week turnaround on a one-page synopsis, compared to the 2 months it takes minimum for a book agent to send you a form letter. Never mind the time it takes to wait on the publisher's slush pile.

Royalities? That is publishing industry thing, not a game industry policy. Most gaming stuff in "work for hire" which means a one time fee or a salary if you're on staff.

And even in publisihing, some writers don't see royalities if their book doesn't pay out past the amount the Publisher gave in an Advance. That is the reason it is called an advance, it is a sum of money given to the writer that will be taken out of royalities later.

Why?

It's easier and quicker once you are established and have an agent to pitch just an idea instead of writing the whole book. Then the advance pays the bills while one gets the book done. Royalities come after the book is on the shelf and by then the writer is living off another advance. It's a vicious cycle. Unless a book is a solid seller, basicly the royalites pay off the advance. 

Why does the publishing industry do this? It lets them determine who really becomes self sufficient as a writer (but only after they sign a contract with them). Steven King got $200,000 for Carrie in the 1970s. His publishers wanted him full time and theirs, hook, line and sinker. Lets say that money is worth $300,000 these days (probably an exageration). which is a little more than double the WotC one-time fee.

So do you think you are half the writer Stephen King is?


----------



## SteveMND

> Would it be possible to include a very simple illustration or diagram, just for explaining something that's not easily explained through words???
> 
> Just something like a circle, a square and maybe an arrow and some words to tell you what it is, nothing more complicated than that. Something that takes up veeery little of a page.
> 
> Now, please answer this, 'cause it might be important...p




Offhand, I'd say that if you have something that you cannot explain without the use of diagrams or illustrations, it's probably too complicated to include in the initial one-page summary.  This first round of submissions is more a competition of concise writing skills than anything else. 

Steve M


----------



## wdodd

SteveMND said:
			
		

> *This first round of submissions is more a competition of concise writing skills than anything else. *



I have to disagree. They are going to get thousands of submissions and I guess that getting into the top 50 is going to depend entirely on grabbing the panelist's attention and tickling their imagination in the first sentence or two. Nice tight, carefully crafted prose is not going to be the deciding factor in the first read of your submission - it has to demand attention.

Now I imagine the ten-pagers will definitely demand concise writing skills and tight prose to make the next cut.

Of course, I could be entirely wrong about that


----------



## Blueicus

*hmm...*

A clever idea is a good thing, but if you need such a complex diagram to convey a one page idea, then it may be too convoluted to be worth learning about.

On the other hand, they also don't want anything 'too out there' in fear of alienating a large chunk of the potential audience.  If something is deemed too exotic and 'clever' (you can also have a clever idea on mundane subjects as well, of course) it won't make the cut either.

So, as the banner boy for moderation, it's good to hedge your bets and be proficient at both writing well and writing creatively.

It's like skimming through ten thousand resumes, will you really bother to take half an hour to read through a very resume that requires you follow diagrams or will you want a concise, well organized yet snazzy resume?


----------



## Arthur Tealeaf

SteveMND said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Offhand, I'd say that if you have something that you cannot explain without the use of diagrams or illustrations, it's probably too complicated to include in the initial one-page summary.  This first round of submissions is more a competition of concise writing skills than anything else.
> 
> Steve M *




It's actually not very complex, it's very simple, but the concept is just so much easier to understand if the text is complimented with this simple illustration (how complicated is two circles and a few letters?).  It's also essential to the campaign world, and without it, the proposal will be confusing and probably thrown away.


----------



## Oni

Arthur Tealeaf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's actually not very complex, it's very simple, but the concept is just so much easier to understand if the text is complimented with this simple illustration (how complicated is two circles and a few letters?).  It's also essential to the campaign world, and without it, the proposal will be confusing and probably thrown away. *





Do it, what have you got to lose.  If you think it will help save your idea from obscurity why not.


----------



## Voneth

Arthur Tealeaf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's actually not very complex, it's very simple, but the concept is just so much easier to understand if the text is complimented with this simple illustration (how complicated is two circles and a few letters?).  It's also essential to the campaign world, and without it, the proposal will be confusing and probably thrown away. *




Go for it, but I assume it had better be a snazzy graphic. Though, I can't imagine how a graphic would be so intergral to the setting that it defies explination. For example ...

The Creator decided that the universe had been stagnant too long and decided empower certain mortals with powers to rivial the gods. Those with the power are marked with a glowing red and yellow symbol that resembles a stark ying-yang circle.

And so Welcome to the Cross Gen comics universe. This symbol is intergal to the oldest comic books to the series, yet it's purpose, meaning and origin were told in two sentences. Perhaps you should take a step back and rethink the idea.

(sorry, I just keep remembering a DM I had who would always start his invitation to his campians with a "Look at this!"  It would be some abstract design and I'd be nonplussed at the design. He would then take half an hour explaining the details of the gods and magics and how this symbol was the key to understanding it all. Well, now it all made sense!, sort of. It added flavor, but I'd hate to set up a pitch based off that.)


----------



## SteveMND

> I have to disagree. They are going to get thousands of submissions and I guess that getting into the top 50 is going to depend entirely on grabbing the panelist's attention and tickling their imagination in the first sentence or two. Nice tight, carefully crafted prose is not going to be the deciding factor in the first read of your submission - it has to demand attention.




Well, I suppose that's sort of what I meant.  Out of all the thousands of entries they get, I suspect 95% of them can be summed up at the one-page level by talking about how "it's a fantasy world with medeival technology where heroes battle against evil villains and strange monsters using swords and magic."

Why?  That sums up 95% of ALL the fantasy RPGs that have been published in the last 30 years.  The above statement sums up the d20 Core Books, and since that's what WotC is looking for, that's the essence of what people will be submitting.

However, once you get to the point where those one-page summaries are expanded into 10-page overviews, THEN the true differences and 'unique flavors' of the various worlds will start to be seen, and that's _really_ where the differences will stand out.

However, the tricky part -- and the point I was alluding to -- was the fact that the winners will be the ones who are able to somehow manage to distill that 10-page collection of what makes their world unique and fit it onto a single-page summary, and do it both professionally and engrossingly.  _That's_ where the tricky bit will come from.

Steve M


----------



## Parcher

Folks:

As Anthony said in an earlier post and as several people have said since, the best thing to do about these one-page submissions is use common sense. 

The committee reviewing the submissions anticipates a very large volume that we will have to get through very quickly. Therefore, it's in your best interests to make your submission is easy to read and understand as possible. 

If you really feel diagrams and charts are absolutely necessary, you can include them, provided they fit on a one-page submission, but at this stage, I'd discourage you from doing so, since it simply makes it more complicated for us to review. 

The most important thing is to answer all six questions and to make sure your submission is clear, readable, that everything is spelled correctly, and that all your essential points are there.


----------



## Altmann

*(Very) short stories ?*

Hi,

Pray tell, Zulkir, if we may add some lines to the question templates, describing the world as it should be seen, and not just according to the form. I believe this would make reading most entries more lively.

Thank you,
 YA


----------



## mirzabah

*Re: (Very) short stories ?*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *... I believe this would make reading most entries more lively.*



I don't think that WotC is doing this because they've run short of reading material...


----------



## SteveMND

> Pray tell, Zulkir, if we may add some lines to the question templates, describing the world as it should be seen, and not just according to the form. I believe this would make reading most entries more lively.




Perhaps, but keep in mind what Anthony said near the beginning -- part of this first round is, if I may paraphrase, to "eliminate those people that don't know how to follow directions."  The more you deviate from the given template, the more of a chance you may well be taking.  Personally, I'd suggest that instead of using that extra space to add information that is unsolicited at this stage, it would be better used to expand on the sections that _are_ requested and make them even better.

Hey, what am I doing, giving suggestions to the competition!? 

Steve M


----------



## Sulimo

whatisitgoodfor said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hmm...
> 
> What does this mean? Are they not even the least little bit interested in someone creating a new setting for their D20 modern system? *




I wondered about this from another angle, whether this meant that WOTC was not interested in any pre-medieval style setting.


----------



## Dave Blewer

> Originally posted by whatisitgoodfor
> 
> Hmm...
> 
> What does this mean? Are they not even the least little bit interested in someone creating a new setting for their D20 modern system?




But surely, we can't really be certain that our splendid D20 Modern ideas aren't exactly what WotC have in store for us anyway?

Maybe we should wait until D20 Modern is actually released before thinking up "new" settings for it...


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*a suggestion*

For those having trouble paring down remember: don't tell them everything.

Using a phrase like "Players should beware of Volcano Pirates." with no further explination, could leave them wondering "What are Vocano Pirates." 

If you leave them wanting more then it will increase your chances of making it to "The 10"


----------



## King_Stannis

i have a question - forgive me if it's been stated earlier, as i haven't had time to scour the entire thread. 

how is this going to be a "blind" selection if the name of the author is going to appear on the one-page submission (in the lower left hand corner)? 

did i miss or misinterpret something there?


----------



## A'koss

Whoa... just thought I'd stop by and see if there was any discussion going on with this topic.

So much for hoping this contest would go relatively unnoticed.  



A'koss!
(competition is good thing... yeah....)


----------



## Ghostwind

> *how is this going to be a "blind" selection if the name of the author is going to appear on the one-page submission (in the lower left hand corner)? *



I suspect that the name will be covered in some fashion to prevent bias (although no one from Wotc has publicly said this)...


----------



## JackGiantkiller

Nobody on this list seems to have paid a great deal of attention to question #5. If as some have suggested, they are hinting at the sorts of worlds and settings they would like by the nature of the questions, then the nature of magic and its source are fairly crucial. It is a difficult balancing act to come up with a unique source and nature of magic without getting to far from the D&D mainstream.


----------



## Rasyr

Wolfspirit said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Proposals should be no more than one page in length, typewritten. Please put the name of the entrant in the LOWER LEFT-HAND CORNER of the page and nowhere else
> 
> -from the announcement
> 
> (my guess is that they're wanting the name in case the two get separated, but are going to rip it off before sent to judges.  Like standardized tests  *




Not quite. From what has been said by Mr. Valterra, the two will not be kept together. The name on the submission is so that they can find the correct contact info if you are selected.

This being a blind panel, the reason for the name being ONLY in the bottom left hand corner is so that they can fold that corner back, OR place a strip of tape over it to obscure the name from the judges at the time of judging. (not: they may even white-out the name, and put in an entry number (which is then associated with an entry number also written on the cover page (with the contact info).

The judges will NOT know what name is in the bottom left hand corner at the time of judging.


----------



## Rasyr

JackGiantkiller said:
			
		

> *Nobody on this list seems to have paid a great deal of attention to question #5. If as some have suggested, they are hinting at the sorts of worlds and settings they would like by the nature of the questions, then the nature of magic and its source are fairly crucial. It is a difficult balancing act to come up with a unique source and nature of magic without getting to far from the D&D mainstream. *




Actually, I have what tends to be a rather unique view on the source of magic and its nature (this comes from reconciling other magic systems in other games, that were supposed to be compatible but had discrepencies).

They did not ask if magic worked exactly like it does, only its nature (i.e. is it elemental in nature, or more spiritually inclinded) and it source (the force, ley lines, the nexus of several converging ley lines, etc..)

This has very little to do with the actual mechanics of magic in the game. At least in how I see it.


----------



## Olidammara

If I don't have access to a typewriter or computer, is it OK to write my proposal in pencil? (Sharpened to a very fine point, of course.)


----------



## Zulkir

*Morning*

Morning all,

Hope everyone had a great weekend. I had a lovely dinner with an old friend and her new lover, watched the Mothman Prophecies on DVD and had dinner with another old friend who is going to Burning Man this year with my wife and I.
All in all a full but satisfying weekend.

Okay, down to business.

Regarding 2nd and 3rd rounds we will be providing guidelines but not precise templates. These guidelines are not yet finalized so don't ask.

Someone said that it looks like we are favoring a single dominant threat to the world ala DL. That is *not* the case. I strongly recommend that you create the best setting you can and don't try to anticipate our desires. 

We are not going to worry about who cover letters are addressed to but "Selection Comittee" would probably not be improper (nice use of the double negative, eh?)

Other than the information we have asked for in the template what else you put on the one page is your decision. Notes, diagrams, graphics, pictures, money....

Process note - not really important but just so people will know. Our admin process the entries. She makes copies for all of the comittee but the copies have the names covers and replaced with a number. She keep the original which also has the number written on it. All we see is the one page submission with a number. She is also the first hurdle as she has been instructed to set aside any submission that has not followed instructions (so we don't even see it).

Final note for the morning. Typed or word processed entries are the only accepatable entry. If you do not have a typewriter or word processor check your local library or borrower a friends.

AV

p.s. I will be at Origins and GenCon, if you see me feel free to walk up and introduce yourself.  I may not be able to spend alot of time chatting (I spend most of the Con's in meetings) but I'm really very approachable.


----------



## Talaysen

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *If I don't have access to a typewriter or computer, is it OK to write my proposal in pencil? (Sharpened to a very fine point, of course.) *




No; it's been established that handwritten submissions will be thrown out. However, you might try seeing if you can get access to a computer/printer at your local library or copy shop - a lot of libraries and copy shops have such services now. (I know Kinko's does.) In that case, you could simply type up a handwritten proposal, print a couple copies, and send one of the typed versions to WotC.


----------



## Olidammara

Suppose I've got more than one page of "text" to submit, and I write it really small to fit on one page? That's OK, right?


----------



## King_Stannis

*Re: Morning*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *....Process note - not really important but just so people will know. Our admin process the entries. She makes copies for all of the comittee but the copies have the names covers and replaced with a number. She keep the original which also has the number written on it. All we see is the one page submission with a number. She is also the first hurdle as she has been instructed to set aside any submission that has not followed instructions (so we don't even see it).
> 
> Final note for the morning. Typed or word processed entries are the only accepatable entry. If you do not have a typewriter or word processor check your local library or borrower a friends.
> 
> AV
> 
> p.s. I will be at Origins and GenCon, if you see me feel free to walk up and introduce yourself.  I may not be able to spend alot of time chatting (I spend most of the Con's in meetings) but I'm really very approachable. *




man, anthony, you are a credit to WotC for your patience in answering all of the questions that have popped up. 

thank you.


----------



## Zulkir

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *Suppose I've got more than one page of "text" to submit, and I write it really small to fit on one page? That's OK, right? *




Are you yanking my chain?

AV


----------



## Olidammara

re chain yank: Nevermind, Mr. Smartypants. 

I'll just post my submission stuff somewhere on this message board and let one of my friends print it out and mail it for me. That should work fine.

Anyone want to help?


----------



## Tallow

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *re chain yank: Nevermind, Mr. Smartypants.
> 
> I'll just post my submission stuff somewhere on this message board and let one of my friends print it out and mail it for me. That should work fine.
> 
> Anyone want to help? *




Hmm... It seems odd to me that you have access to a computer to get online and post on these message boards, yet you don't have one in which you can type a doc/txt file.  If you have friends with computers, email them the doc file and let them print it at home.

I mean these questions are akin to... can I write my proposal in pig latin?

Andy


----------



## Olidammara

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hmm... can I write my proposal in pig latin?
> 
> Andy *




I don't see much of a reason to do that. Unless it's an integral part of your campaign world. Is it?

(And thank you very much for making a big fuss about my access to a printerless computer where I work. I already felt silly enough for asking the question.)


----------



## Tallow

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't see much of a reason to do that. Unless it's an integral part of your campaign world. Is it?
> 
> (And thank you very much for making a big fuss about my access to a printerless computer where I work. I already felt silly enough for asking the question.) *




Now you KNOW that wasn't the actual quote dude.

Anyways here are some constructive suggestions.

1) do you have a kinko's in your area?  If you have access to a computer, you have access to typing up a text file at the very least, if not a word document.  Type it up, save it to a disk.  If you don't have a disk, they are like 30 cents each.  Take the disk to Kinko's and print up 2 copies for like 2 dollars.

2) do you have access to email?  If you have access to the internet you should at the very least be able to set up a yahoo or hotmail address.  Type up your text file and email it as an attachment to a friend to print up.  Keep in mind though, the signed subission agreement form must have an original signature, so you probably need to do the leg work and find a Kinko's yourself, unless you want to pay your friend to mail the printed out stuff to you 3 day air, so that you can then sign it and turn it around and mail it out again to WotC.

3) If you aren't willing to do a little leg work to make this work, are you willing to pay someone for their trouble?  If you aren't willing to do a little leg work, do you really think you'd be willing to take the time necessary to write the 10 page treatment or 100 page bible?  If not, why do the 1 page submittal?

Andy Christian


----------



## Information

Finally, the World of Manilowland will get a chance to ascend to its rightful place...

Now... I've got work to do!


----------



## DiamondB

Okay I don't know if this question was answered anywhere, but I didn't see it in the quick search I made.

One of my team is in Paris and I need to get his signature on a submission form.  Will WotC accept faxed signature pages or should I have him get sheet mailed to me asap?


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: Morning*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *p.s. I will be at Origins and GenCon, if you see me feel free to walk up and introduce yourself.  I may not be able to spend alot of time chatting (I spend most of the Con's in meetings) but I'm really very approachable. *



Anthony,

You have just guaranteed yourself to be hunted down by me @ Origins.


----------



## ilbrant

The name of the submitting person has to be in the lower left corner. What do you put if it is a team? Does the team need a name to put there, or is it just the name of one person in the team?

Cheers for any help


----------



## Tallow

DiamondB said:
			
		

> *Okay I don't know if this question was answered anywhere, but I didn't see it in the quick search I made.
> 
> One of my team is in Paris and I need to get his signature on a submission form.  Will WotC accept faxed signature pages or should I have him get sheet mailed to me asap? *




My suggestion would be, if the time frame isn't going to work real well, to leave his name off the one page, and add it as part of your team should you be chosen for the 10 page treatement.

Andy Christian


----------



## CrimsonHawk

*Deleted double post!*


----------



## CrimsonHawk

A quick question if I may ...

I've already turned in a proposal.  However, I noticed a couple of things Anthony touched on that concerns me.

1)  I did speak, admittedly at length, on iconic characters for the setting when, as it now turns out, archetypical character examination was being asked for.  (I did touch on archetypical characters, but that was in addition to the iconic characters ....)

2)  When typing out my proposal, I set the questions themselves at size 10 font and the answers at size 8 font.  I'm getting the impression the "audit team" may not like that.   

Would I be out of line resubmitting the same proposal, re-written and reformatted to meet the clarified specifications discussed here?

Thanks!

=====O
Dale W. Robbins


----------



## Olidammara

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Now you KNOW that wasn't the actual quote dude.
> 
> *




Are you challenging the veracity of my quoting ability?! Retract that, sir!

You did, indeed, say, "Hmm... can I write my proposal in pig latin?" If you look at your original message, it's obvious that the "Hmm..." part was followed by a bunch of stuff that I omitted for space -- that's what ellipses are for.

I'm glad that my real name isn't attached to these messages. Otherwise, your slanderous comments could hurt my chances of winning the contest.

Anyway... 
Thanks for the feedback! Very helpful.

Another question: If I include a self-addressed stamped envelope (SASE) with my submission, would the judges share their opinions with me?


----------



## mythusmage

Then editor of _The Magazine of Fantasy and Science Fiction_, Kathryn Rausch, wrote in an editorial that she would only consider submissions printed using using 9 point type or larger. Others may prefer larger type, so consider her standard as a guideline.

Along with type size it helps to consider the font in question. Some fonts do not read well at small sizes, others were designed to be read at small sizes, and so don't read well at larger. *Monaco*and *Geneva* start to blur and smear below 9 or 10 points. *Chicago*and *Times*, being designed for printing at very small sizes (4 or 5 points), look horrid at 12 points or greater. So if you really must use 8 point type, I'd recommend *Chicago*or *Times* over any other available font.

Hope this helps


----------



## Rasyr

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *Another question: If I include a self-addressed stamped envelope (SASE) with my submission, would the judges share their opinions with me? *




hahaha........ ROFLMAO.......

With estimites of between 5,000 and 30,000 submissions, I really don't think that anybody but the "approximately 10" semi-finalists will hear anything from WOTC regarding their submissions.

Here is a question (or two) for Anthony...

Once the semi-finalists have been selected, will WOTC be posting their names on the WOTC website? 

I know that I would be interested in seeing the top 10 one page submissions, but I am pretty sure that you guys won't post those, at least until after the July 31st deadline if at all, so as to not having the semi-finalists reading each other's ideas....

So, will you be posting them (the one page sumbissions of the semi-finalists) at some point?


----------



## Zulkir

Afternoon all,

Our next round of questions (sponsored by Duff beer!)

1) Regarding team members in disperate places. If you can't get their ink signature on the page to us then add them after you get to the 10 page level (assuming you get there). We do need actual ink signature on actual paper not electronic or faxes.

2) Happy to be hunted down

3) Team members in lower left: Your choice you can either designate a team lead or you could go with last names only if there are only a few (Dewey, Cheatem and Howe).

4) Reagrding resubmitting. There is nothing in the rules to keep you from resubmitting. Only our admin might know unless we remember that proposal 122 looked alot like proposal 1098 (which is unlikely).

5) We will not be giving anybody feedback on their one page submissions.

6) Regarding making the 10 selected public, we will not do that but they may make themselves public if they wish. We want to respect their privacy. We may do the same for the final three, that is still up for debate.

7) Anticipating a question - if one of the ten decides to submit to a d20 company, yes we will confirm that they were one of the selected 10.

8) First batch came in this morning. I think I'll start an office betting pool on the number of submissions.

AV


----------



## Vicente

*Re: Morning*

Hello,



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> Process note - not really important but just so people will know. Our admin process the entries. She makes copies for all of the comittee but the copies have the names covers and replaced with a number. She keep the original which also has the number written on it. All we see is the one page submission with a number. She is also the first hurdle as she has been instructed to set aside any submission that has not followed instructions (so we don't even see it).
> 
> AV
> *




   That sentence means that if I send a colored work, you´ll get a B/W copy? If I have designed, let´s say, a colored title (probably not readable in B/W), should I change it? 

   Thanks in advance,

Vicente
Gravity Age Studios


----------



## Rasyr

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Afternoon all,
> 
> 6) Regarding making the 10 selected public, we will not do that but they may make themselves public if they wish. We want to respect their privacy. We may do the same for the final three, that is still up for debate.
> AV *




Will you, at any time, make the top ten one page submissions public (so that all us interested folks can see what the blind panel thought was interesting/unique enough tomake it into the top 10?

(note: I am not asking about the names of the top ten, just the one page submissions selected)


----------



## ghettognome

How is the judging going to be blind if we have to put our names in the lower left hand corner?


----------



## The Grumpy Celt

*Yet More Question....*

First Question - In the template form, does it need to be:

1. Core Ethos Sentance. [A sentence that describes the core ethos of the world. For example, FORGOTTEN REALMS is a world of sword-and-sorcery adventure, where heroes battle monsters with magic.] Pillow-Fight world, where blah blah.

or 

1. Core Ethos Sentance. Pillow-Fight world, where blah blah.

or

1. Pillow-Fight world, where blah blah blah.

Second Question - May the title "Fantasy Setting Proposal Template" be erased or replaced by  the title of the world one submits?


----------



## Mistwell

Information said:
			
		

> *Finally, the World of Manilowland will get a chance to ascend to its rightful place...
> 
> Now... I've got work to do! *




Fiend! You have stolen my idea, wherein the god Mandy gives without taking!

Now I will have to settle for my backup plan, Diamondland! " They comin to Althera, today!" Arriving in Copacabana, the hottest spot north of Hades, our heros meet Rico (who wears a diamond), Lola, and Tony.  Fighting ensues, but our heros escape alive. Looks Like We Made It!


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: Re: Morning*



			
				Vicente said:
			
		

> *Hello,
> 
> 
> 
> That sentence means that if I send a colored work, you´ll get a B/W copy? If I have designed, let´s say, a colored title (probably not readable in B/W), should I change it?
> 
> Thanks in advance,
> 
> Vicente
> Gravity Age Studios *




Yes, but since the orginal is available if we think seeing it in color will be significant then we can ask the admin to show the color version to us.
Can someone update the faq I'm starting to see the same questions.
Today's load wasn't too bad but I'm worried what the week will bring.

AV


----------



## A'koss

*Question for Zulkir.*

Anthony, is 8.1 pt. Ariel going to be a problem? If so, let me know and I'll trim it down and resend it. It didn't look bad at all to me but I get the feeling there might be some concern on your end. 

Unfortunately, my computer was down until a few hours ago and I didn't have access to Quark.  I was forced to use a friend's machine to get it out and all he had was WordPad... (Ariel seemed to be the only font he had that wasn't appalling in print or poorly kerned.)


Cheers,

A'koss.


----------



## Q1000

*Listen Up you primative screwheads*

Like it or not, if this contest was ran 5 times with the identical entries there would be 5 different answers.

This is a lottery, the best setting will not win, just one of thousands. Since99.9999% of you are going to loose this anyway then here is what I suggest.

When the dust settles and the ONE is picked we all post our little one page settings here at enworld, lets shop these little wonders out to the third party crowd.

Lets make them pay for all the hard work they made us do, lets all publish our settings, screw the $120,000.00. Lets flood the D20 market with our entries, and then when thats all done lets meet in Times Square in New York City and show the world how 1000 newly published authers can PARTY!!!

Thats the dream anyway.

Goodluck
Quode


----------



## Weeble

Zulkir-
     Some gripes.

1) Why would it be acceptable for applicants to send duplicate copies, and why aren't the panel experts able to weed them out?  If Wizards doesn't think this will be a problem, you can be rest assured many will send in 5,10,20 + duplicate proposals.  Have fun.

2) Why wouldn't the experts also read cover letters in conjunction with setting proposals?  I would think that many people will be able to submit acceptable proposals on one page, but can they project themselves professionally?  How will Wizards know if they pass up dozens of proposals that were as good, or almost as good, as the ones they picked, only to find that the chosen can't prioritize or efficiently complete their setting?


----------



## Tallow

Weeble said:
			
		

> *Zulkir-
> Some gripes.
> 
> 1) Why would it be acceptable for applicants to send duplicate copies, and why aren't the panel experts able to weed them out?  If Wizards doesn't think this will be a problem, you can be rest assured many will send in 5,10,20 + duplicate proposals.  Have fun.
> 
> 2) Why wouldn't the experts also read cover letters in conjunction with setting proposals?  I would think that many people will be able to submit acceptable proposals on one page, but can they project themselves professionally?  How will Wizards know if they pass up dozens of proposals that were as good, or almost as good, as the ones they picked, only to find that the chosen can't prioritize or efficiently complete their setting? *




1) hey, they wanna allow it, don't whine, just send in 10 of  your own.

2) Because its blind.  How many times do they have to say that?  Besides, I think that the majority of those who can't prioritize or efficiently complete their setting will be weeded out by the fact they will either, not meet the deadline, or fail to follow instructions.  By the majority of the questions here, I think alot of folks won't follow instructions well.

Andy Christian


----------



## mythusmage

*Re: Question for Zulkir.*



			
				A'koss said:
			
		

> *Anthony, is 8.1 pt. Ariel going to be a problem? If so, let me know and I'll trim it down and resend it. It didn't look bad at all to me but I get the feeling there might be some concern on your end.
> 
> Unfortunately, my computer was down until a few hours ago and I didn't have access to Quark.  I was forced to use a friend's machine to get it out and all he had was WordPad... (Ariel seemed to be the only font he had that wasn't appalling in print or poorly kerned.)
> 
> 
> Cheers,
> 
> A'koss. *




Redo it. Since your computer is back up, do the page in a text editor or word processor. Don't worry about impressing folks with your layout skills, try communicating your ideas clearly. Wizards has people who do layout professionally, all you have to do is write professionally.

BTW, if you must do eight point type, use Chicago instead. That's what it was made for.


----------



## Weeble

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 1) hey, they wanna allow it, don't whine, just send in 10 of  your own.
> 
> 2) Because its blind.  How many times do they have to say that?  Besides, I think that the majority of those who can't prioritize or efficiently complete their setting will be weeded out by the fact they will either, not meet the deadline, or fail to follow instructions.  By the majority of the questions here, I think alot of folks won't follow instructions well.
> 
> Andy Christian *




1) hey, I'm not whining.  I was just wondering how they would be able to handle a large amount of duplicates.

2) I already knew it was blind.  That's why I asked.  You don't think 1000 fools with homebrews made long ago can't whip up a cover letter and send it out in 2 weeks?


----------



## Butholios

*Oh geez*

Golly Anthony, I've already sent in my 15,000 proposals hand-lettered on papyrus mashed from reeds I grew myself organically, but I used the AP standard for serial commas instead of the CMOS standard; shall I flagellate myself forthwith, or could your admin--por favor--glean what I _actually_ mean, from this horrendously mis-stated entry?

Yours in abject shame,


A. Fanboy


----------



## mythusmage

You idjit, do you have any idea what papyrus is going for these days? Especially in the artsy crowd? 15,000 sheets would get you a dang sight more than 120,000 smackers. Use vellum the next time, the market's really collapsed for that.


----------



## Orcus

A TON of people will be weeded out by failing to follow instructions or by not submitting a presentable, professional one pager. So those of you worried about not submitting becasue of the sheer numbers, dont worry. The fact they have an admin screener means they wont hesitate to trash a submission. Not even for a second. He or she wont care about the content. I guarantee that half of all the submissions sent in will hit the trash can. If not more. And that is being generous.

I have read over tons of submissions for my company. It is real easy to weed out those that dont follow directions. And frankly, it is a pleasure to do it. Why? Because as a publisher, if I cant trust you to follow directions on the 1 pager, how are you going to be responsible enough to work up a 10 pager or--more to the point--follow through on the bible? 

Remember, good ideas are a dime a dozen. We are all gamers because we are creative people with good ideas. That alone isnt enough.

They want good ideas coupled with the ability to be professional and follow directions. All three of those are being tested by this submission. Drop the ball on one, and you will be out.

Let me clear up the font issue for everyone. Of course, no one really needs that question answered, no matter how many times it gets asked. You all know the answer to the question. Because it is obvious. You all know if you are just shrinking the font to cram more in. If you are, your point size is too small. If you are even engaging in selecting a font simply to make it fit, it is too small.

Use common sense. If you can't put the paper on your desk and read it from a sitting position with the font and point size you use, it is too small. If you have to use a certain font because of the point size you selected, it is too small (ie using one font instead of the other becasue it looks better at 7.6 point). 

I have never seen anything smaller than 10 point Times (or Arial or similar) being even close to acceptable. If you are at 8 point (I dont care what font you are using) that is pretty freaking small. 

If you are going below 10 point, you really need to think about that. That starts to become difficult to read. Dont give them a reason to can your submission. Cut some words and use a reasonable font.

What would that small of a font say to me as the reviewer? This guy cant follow directions and is trying to circumvent the 1 page restriction.

Try it yourself. Use the font you want, then print it out. Place it on your desk face down. Then quickly pick it up and glance at it (or better yet, have a friend do this). If they cant quickly read it, the font is too small. Guess what, that is how much review your submission is going to get by a small batch of guys who have looked at 250 before yours and have a stack of 250 more to get to and have had 5 cups of coffee. Thats how submissions go. If they cant read it under those conditions, it wont get read.

For those of you saying "but I cant describe my wonderful world in one page", the short response is yes you can. You dont need to tell them the whole history of your campaign world. Find the kernel of your world. The heart of it. Its "theme" if you will. That is what this is all about.

I would even venture to say that those trying to submit 20+ year old campaign worlds might be at a slight disadvantage. People seem to have a hard time encapsulating the "concept" of those worlds, since they have so much personal history. Why, because after 20 years of play it can be hard to find the theme. Those worlds tend to be "uh, a place for us to play D&D". 

There is no rule that you have to submit your home campaign world. I am doing a submission and I have never even drawn a map for the world I am submitting. It is just an idea that is in my head. So why am I submitting that one? Because I really have a handle on the "theme" of the world. 

Think about it, in a 1 page submission (where you have to answer specific questions) do you really have time to tell them about the cool city and the cool dungeon in your world? No! You have to be able to convey the "theme" of the world.

Want a way to practice finding the "theme?" Here is how. Take your favorite fantasy author's world and try to sum it up in a sentence. Just one sentence. And no cheesy mega-run-ons with semi-colons and stuff. That is cheating. Just one sentence.

Try Tolkien, for example:

A world of faded majesty where the descendants of the once powerful races are menaced again by an ancient enemy of great power.

Or perhaps Earthsea:

An elemental world of sea and sky, where schooled wizards strive against evil and ancient magics that lurk deep within the earth itself.

Or R.E.Howard's Hyboria:

A savage world of mythic prehistory, where sword and shield can carve out the destiny of those heroic enough to wield them.

There are a hundred different permutations of the above sentences. You might not like mine. I just made them up as I was typing this. But they do capture the authors' worlds. Try making up your own. Once you can summarize the works of your favorite authors, try to boil your campaign or your submission down to a similar sentence. It can be done!

I look forward to the creativity that this will generate. 

But remember, you first have to make the cut to the 10 pager. So dont do something that will get yourself trashcanned. Dont get ahead of yourself on the 100 pager. Get the 1 pager right! Follow the directions! And those submitting your current game world, put your notes aside and ask yourself "what is my world really all about".

Good luck everyone!

Clark


----------



## mirzabah

Well said Orcus.


----------



## Altmann

*Instructions*

It's just that sometimes, following instructions is less important than doing things well.

Anyway. Thanks for the example, Orcus. Good initiative.

And I confirm : I sometimes spend workdays reading scientific articles and I wouldn't even bother to print down something smaller than 10pt.

Be reading you,
 YA

P.S. : Are we supposed to write somewhere on the proposal that we are not native English speakers ?


----------



## Orcus

But in this case, following instructions IS doing things well. Thats part of the test.

I cant stress this enough. Your stuff will end up in the trashcan if you dont follow the instructions. 

Clark


----------



## Arthur Tealeaf

Parcher said:
			
		

> *
> If you really feel diagrams and charts are absolutely necessary, you can include them, provided they fit on a one-page submission, but at this stage, I'd discourage you from doing so, since it simply makes it more complicated for us to review.
> *




In my case, it'll just be easier to understand.  When skimming through my submission, I think they might have to read that sentence twice to get the image into their heads.  With the diagram, they only need to read it once, glance at the veery simple drawing, understand and move on.


----------



## Weeble

Man, with every compatible comment here, my chances of being picked go down the tubes more and more!!

Quit it with the good ideas, guys!!  

Just kiddin.


----------



## Ghostwind

Bravo, Clark!  Eloquently put as usual.  Maybe your post will kill some of these repetitive questions from folks who just aren't quite "getting it."  But then again, maybe not...


----------



## Voneth

And Clarke provides a clue about how tough the publishing world can be.

Hey, Clarke, is there a way I can contact you?


----------



## Mercule

*Re: Instructions*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *P.S. : Are we supposed to write somewhere on the proposal that we are not native English speakers ? *




I suspect that since the initial publishing of all related works will be in English, grammar, etc. counts whether you are a native speaker or not.

Fair or otherwise, if they make allowances for birth language, it's for all intents and purposes paying for their staff to interpret/edit the submissions or later works.  If they were willing to do that, the grammar of native speakers wouldn't be a big deal, either.  It's a business and cost matters.

On the plus side, though, your English looks better to me than that of entirely too many native speakers.


----------



## SHARK

Greetings!

Gee whiz! Why is it so hard to follow some simple directions? I wish everyone luck, but really! If you can't follow some basic directions and decent writing, it deserves to be cast into the flames! That just goes for anyone's paper--mine, Clark's, everyone's. Focus, focus, focus!

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: Oh geez*



			
				Butholios said:
			
		

> *Golly Anthony, I've already sent in my 15,000 proposals hand-lettered on papyrus mashed from reeds I grew myself organically, but I used the AP standard for serial commas instead of the CMOS standard; shall I flagellate myself forthwith, or could your admin--por favor--glean what I _actually_ mean, from this horrendously mis-stated entry?
> 
> Yours in abject shame,
> 
> 
> A. Fanboy *




Fanboy,
Received your entries, we were all very impressed! The hand mashed reed paper was terribly appropriate to the setting (I can see why you went that route). Your use of AP standard rather than CMOS was a bit unusual but we overlooked it since you didn't write a single complete sentence, you used a 6 pt. font and had quarter inch margins (highly original combination, we've seen all three just never all three at once!). 

AV


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: Re: Oh geez*



> *Your use of AP standard rather than CMOS was a bit unusual but we overlooked it since you didn't write a single complete sentence, you used a 6 pt. font and had quarter inch margins (highly original combination, we've seen all three just never all three at once!). *




Hehehe...  Good one, AV.  Gotta appreciate anyone with a good sarcastic wit.  You got my morning off to a good chuckle.


----------



## CrimsonHawk

Orcus,

I agreed with everything you said above ....

until you launched into your tirade about font size.

Don't get me wrong.  You had some very valid points and you were being honest (perhaps brutally, which is necessary) about the publishing environment.

But your tone of voice and choice of words didn't so much enlighten me as they did leave me feeling like a f***ing dumb@$$ for even venturing the question on font sizes.

I have never ... not ONCE ... ever had a problem reading 8 point.  In fact, I've seen some WOTC books (the FRCS comes to mind) with a smaller font than that in final product and I love them.  So that little test you suggested is useless on me.

And your comment about "use common sense" was uncalled for.  "Use common sense" and "quit being stupid" both convey the exact same message and I don't appreciate being called stupid.  I was using "common sense" to ask a question rather than just assume something was the case.  I stand my ground on that.

*takes a deep breath*  Okay, I'm done ranting now.  Aside from all that, you made some really valid points and it helped me gain a perspective of what not only Anthony and his crew are going through but also what other publishers that I write for are going through.  And I appreciate that.  

Thanks!

=====O
Dale W. Robbins


----------



## Morrus

I've just noticed that this one thread has had more views in one week than 99% of entire websites get in a year...


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Re: Re: Oh geez*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Fanboy,
> Received your entries, we were all very impressed! The hand mashed reed paper was terribly appropriate to the setting (I can see why you went that route). Your use of AP standard rather than CMOS was a bit unusual but we overlooked it since you didn't write a single complete sentence, you used a 6 pt. font and had quarter inch margins (highly original combination, we've seen all three just never all three at once!).
> 
> AV *




I've decided I want to know what the 10 WORST entries (other than mine) look like.


----------



## am181d

*Unofficial FAQ Thread*

I'm creating a second thread just to compile Anthony's responses.  Please don't ask questions on that thread, BUT please READ that thread, before asking questions.


----------



## am181d

Morrus said:
			
		

> *I've just noticed that this one thread has had more views in one week than 99% of entire websites get in a year... *




And still the boards don't crash!  It's a good thing that you switched servers when you did!


----------



## CrimsonHawk

Thank you for creating the new thread, Am181d.  That'll be a fantastic help!  

=====O
Dale W. Robbins


----------



## Olidammara

Seems like all I'm reading are constraints, constraints, constraints. Why is Wizards of the Coast trying to oppress my creativity?! Why is the company trying to impose so many unreasonable limitations on the human spirit?

If my campaign world has worked well enough to make virtually tens of people happy at my gaming table over the years, it's a little unfair for WotC to dismiss my work out of hand just because I accidentally forgot to dot a 'T' or cross an 'I'.

But while you consider the obvious wisdom of my words, I've got a couple more submission questions: Do I have to use my legal name? And how many women will be on the judging panel?


----------



## Ghostwind

> *Seems like all I'm reading are constraints, constraints, constraints. Why is Wizards of the Coast trying to oppress my creativity?! Why is the company trying to impose so many unreasonable limitations on the human spirit?*




I would like to think this is a tongue-in-cheek question and not meant to be taken seriously.  If it is a serious question, the answer should be obvious.  Wotc has defined the guidelines and parameters under which they want this new world developed.  You need to follow those parameters.  This isn't a case of submitting what you want and telling them that they should accept it or else they are stupid.  I'm not sure everyone is getting the point that part of this competition is following directions and writing to specifications.



> *If my campaign world has worked well enough to make virtually tens of people happy at my gaming table over the years, it's a little unfair for WotC to dismiss my work out of hand just because I accidentally forgot to dot a 'T' or cross an 'I'.*




It's great that so many others have gotten enjoyment from your world.  But professionalism is part of the requirement for being a writer.  You need to have the skills to write cleanly and concisely to get your point across.  If you have created a great world that is well-defined and written and knocks everyone's socks off, I don't believe you will be penalized for a minor grammatical error.  But if it is loaded with bad grammar and spelling errors, then it should be put in the trash.  As a writer you are responsible for proofreading and correcting all errors or problems you find before it is submitted.



> *Do I have to use my legal name?*




You're submitting something that you would potentially be paid for.  The name you use should be the same that you use that is on any paycheck of legal document.  When you sign the legal contract that Wotc has included in the proposal, you are legally bound to use your real name.  Anything less would be grounds for throwing out your submission.



> *And how many women will be on the judging panel? *




The make-up of the judging panel should be kept secret, period.  Furthermore, the number of women on the panel whould have absolutely no relevance to your submission.  This new campaign world has to appeal to men and women across the world.  If your campaign is slanted towards one sex or the other, you should probably rework it.


----------



## Olidammara

OK, OK. I think I've just about got all my questions answered. I might not agree with the way this "contest" is being "organized," but I can live with it for $120,000.

One more question: Would it be beneficial to note in my submission that my campaign fixes the broken ranger character rules?


----------



## Arcane Runes Press

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *Seems like all I'm reading are constraints, constraints, constraints. Why is Wizards of the Coast trying to oppress my creativity?! Why is the company trying to impose so many unreasonable limitations on the human spirit?
> 
> If my campaign world has worked well enough to make virtually tens of people happy at my gaming table over the years, it's a little unfair for WotC to dismiss my work out of hand just because I accidentally forgot to dot a 'T' or cross an 'I'.
> 
> But while you consider the obvious wisdom of my words, I've got a couple more submission questions: Do I have to use my legal name? And how many women will be on the judging panel? *




Boy, I hope this post is in jest. For those who might agree with it: 


The world of publishing isn't fair. Never has been, never will be. 

Think of it this way:

It's unfair for WotC not to dismiss those people who can't remember to dot Is and cross Ts. I want them to round file entries with spelling errors, I want them to round file entries with wonky fonts, I want them to round file entries with "creative" grammar, I want them to round file entries that are more than 1 page and I want them to round file entries without the author's name in the proper place. In other words, I want them to round file every entry that fails to meet a minimum standard of professionalism. 

There are thousands of entries pouring in. If 50% of them are tossed because they fail to meet the minimum professional standard, that leaves more time for solid evaluation of those works that are of professional caliber.

Patrick Y.


----------



## Christian

Orcus made a solid point about the long-running homebrew worlds. I happen to have a 20-year old world taking up a few file folders and notebooks, which I'm trying to submit. And I'm almost tempted to throw up my hands ... Frankly, I think it would be easier to build the 100-page bible than try to pick out a few core elements for the one-page summary. Bleah.

I've found it helps to stick those notes in the back of a closet for now & just let everything settle in my mind. And recall as best as I can the ideas that led me to start building this monstrosity back in 1984 or so ... It's an interesting exercise, to be sure. 

(The positive: I'm hoping this will inspire me to finish converting this 1st Edition stuff to 3rd Edition. We shall see.)

(Of course, the best-case scenario has something to do with $120,000. But I'll be pretty darn happy if, six months from now, I have a 100-page bible, whether or not I get paid for it.  )


----------



## Gez

I've got the strange feeling I'm the only one who have actually _looked_ at Olidammara's nickname before posting a "you're a complete moron, that's a stupid question which has alreadyt been answered ten thousand times !" reply.

Bad humor is part of his portfolio... Hence the "I don't have access to a computer" joke (for someone on the Internet ! And people have bitten the bait ! Kudos, it was a really great one, akin to that "are you frightened by the fact the New Year's Day in year 2000 will be a friday 13 ?" enquiry! People are so silly sometimes...) or, in fact all his other questions.

-------------------


I can make a better 1-pager than WotC: compare their FR core ethos with, say, this one:
"The Forgotten Realms are a early renaissance sword-&-sorcery setting where adventurers battles countless evils and discover age-old lost wonders." 
Just on the top of my head.


----------



## Weeble

Arcane Runes Press said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Boy, I hope this post is in jest. For those who might agree with it:
> 
> 
> The world of publishing isn't fair. Never has been, never will be.
> 
> Think of it this way:
> 
> It's unfair for WotC not to dismiss those people who can't remember to dot Is and cross Ts. I want them to round file entries with spelling errors, I want them to round file entries with wonky fonts, I want them to round file entries with "creative" grammar, I want them to round file entries that are more than 1 page and I want them to round file entries without the author's name in the proper place. In other words, I want them to round file every entry that fails to meet a minimum standard of professionalism.
> 
> There are thousands of entries pouring in. If 50% of them are tossed because they fail to meet the minimum professional standard, that leaves more time for solid evaluation of those works that are of professional caliber.
> 
> Patrick Y. *




amen


----------



## Storm Raven

Christian said:
			
		

> *Orcus made a solid point about the long-running homebrew worlds.*




I think part of the point of the one page submission requirement (in addition to making the submissions manageably easy to read) is that they _don't_ want extensive detail or intricately networked together political/religious backgrounds with dozens of statted up NPCs, prestige classes and home brewed rules.

What they appear to want is a framework. A jumping off point. Even a 100 page setting bible is a very minute amount of material: a campaign setting painted in very broad strokes at best. I think people submitting very long running, complex and intricately designed settings will not do all that well in the contest.


----------



## Mercule

Arcane Runes Press said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Boy, I hope this post is in jest. For those who might agree with it:
> 
> *




It might put your mind at ease, as far is Oli's questions go, if you skimmed through Chapter 6 of your Player's Handbook.


----------



## edbonny

Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> What they appear to want is a framework. A jumping off point.  *




The more I write, the more my setting submission is starting to read like a movie trailer with its "bullet points" of what to expect when it releases. Concise, to the point, filling the viewer with interest and anticipation... anybody else taking this dramatic route?


----------



## Darraketh

Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think part of the point of the one page submission requirement (in addition to making the submissions manageably easy to read) is that they don't want extensive detail or intricately networked together political/religious backgrounds with dozens of statted up NPCs, prestige classes and home brewed rules.
> 
> What they appear to want is a framework. A jumping off point. Even a 100 page setting bible is a very minute amount of material: a campaign setting painted in very broad strokes at best. I think people submitting very long running, complex and intricately designed settings will not do all that well in the contest. *




Excellent observation. If I understand this quote, from the instructions, correctly; "Such a setting may serve as a vehicle for novels, roleplaying games, card games, miniatures, and other entertainment products." Then the broad approach may leave room for the development of these other products.

I could be wrong.


----------



## Darraketh

Neorxnawang said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The more I write, the more my setting submission is starting to read like a movie trailer with its "bullet points" of what to expect when it releases. Concise, to the point, filling the viewer with interest and anticipation... anybody else taking this dramatic route? *




That's a nice approach. As for myself I see the blurb on the back of a boxed set.


----------



## Orcus

"I have never ... not ONCE ... ever had a problem reading 8 point. In fact, I've seen some WOTC books (the FRCS comes to mind) with a smaller font than that in final product and I love them. So that little test you suggested is useless on me."

OK.

I'm not trying to call anyone stupid. If you like 8 point font and want to use it, go for it!

But dont confuse the point used in a final printed product with the point you should use in a professional, presentable submission.

Sure, there are products in 8 point (or smaller) that we all love and can read. But that isnt the question here. The question is what point size is acceptable in a professional, presentable submission. That is different from a final printed product. 

I am trying to help you. You probably should avoid 8 point font. But I can't make you. If you like it, use it. More power to you. And if you get picked, feel free to email me a "neener neener" email. 

Good luck everyone! 

Clark


----------



## Orcus

As for the "movie trailer" idea, that is right on. You have 30 seconds to encapsulate a 3 hour movie. Same thing. You have 1 page to encapsulate a whole game world. Find the highlights, the theme, the feel. Show me the hero, show me a core action and conflict. Come up with a tag line. Every movie has one. That is your answer to question 1.

Clark


----------



## Olidammara

Orcus said:
			
		

> *As for the "movie trailer" idea, that is right on. You have 30 seconds to encapsulate a 3 hour movie. Same thing. ...
> 
> Clark *




I'm not sure I'm clear on that. Are you saying our submission should take 30 seconds to read, or 3 hours? And how are we going to know how fast each judge can read our richly detailed text?


----------



## Zappo

Gez said:
			
		

> *"are you frightened by the fact the New Year's Day in year 2000 will be a friday 13 ?"*



_Really?_


----------



## Duvall

*Re: Question for Zulkir.*



			
				A'koss said:
			
		

> *Anthony, is 8.1 pt. Ariel going to be a problem? If so, let me know and I'll trim it down and resend it. It didn't look bad at all to me but I get the feeling there might be some concern on your end.
> *




I'm going to offer this up from the perspective of someone who was once a graduate teaching assistant and had to grade piles of papers and someone who has had to plow through stacks of resumes in his professional life.  Don't use anything below a 10 point easily readable font.  Revise revise revise until your submission fits one page.

When you have a huge stack of papers to go through, your eyes get tired and people get an instant attitude about a paper that requires them to squint or work harder just to read it.  You are just looking at one page with your eyes.  Go read today's Wall Street Journal front to back, then pick up your submission again and ask yourself, "Is this easy to read?"  So unless your Ethos Sentence has the punch of a good Shakespearean quote, then I would reconsider using 8 point fonts.


----------



## SteveMND

30 seconds or three hours to read?  C'mon, Oli.  I like a good attempt at humor as much as the next guy, but aren't the continual tongue-in-cheek comments getting a little old?    Especially in a thread which is about to top 20 pages...

Steve M


----------



## seasong

*10 point font!?*

10 point fonts? Wow. I was shooting for 14-pt Times New Roman (although I finally broke down and went with 12-pt).

Now I feel like I might be too succinct


----------



## CrimsonHawk

> I am trying to help you. You probably should avoid 8 point font. But I can't make you. If you like it, use it. More power to you. And if you get picked, feel free to email me a "neener neener" email.




Orcus, 

I'm sorry if I implied that you were _not_ helping us.  That was not my goal when I ranted like that.  In fact, if you're who I think you are (considering your _nom de guerre_), then you're probably one of the best people to advise us on matters of what publishers want.

Instead, my goal was to point out that you came off as condescending when you _did_ talk about the [/i]nt sizes[/i] (and only the font sizes.  It's not that you weren't helping us.  It's that it felt like I was stupid for needing that help.

In fact, I did steer away from 8 point fonts in the end (before I even read you post, in fact).  My original proposal used it, but when Anthony insinuated that smaller fonts might weaken a proposal's chances, I went back, rewrote my proposal, used larger fonts, and remailed my proposal.

The next morning, I read your post, which to me read like "You're all a bunch of effin' morons for not thinking of this yourselves."

The help, in and of itself, was fantastic and well-needed.  And, no, if I do get accepted, I am _not_ going to send you a nastygram about your incorrectness.  Because you're _not_ incorrect.

I guess I just let the words "Use Common Sense" crawl under my skin and wriggle around.  I grew up with my dad constantly chastising me for not using my head, even after I thought my course of action through for several hours.  And I have a pet peeve against people who do the same.

I let that pet peeve guide me when I responded to your post.

For that ... I apologize.   

=====O
Dale W. Robbins


----------



## Twilight

*Orcus*

Orcus,

Those ethos sentences you wrote were very well written.

Must I write on such a level to be chosen for the 10 page, or just make sure my ethos is of proper size and a good summary?


----------



## Zulkir

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm not sure I'm clear on that. Are you saying our submission should take 30 seconds to read, or 3 hours? And how are we going to know how fast each judge can read our richly detailed text? *




What he is saying is that your submission should include lots of explosions, a few good one liners and a gratitous skin shot. See if you can, in words, recreate the trailer for "The Scorpion King".

AV


----------



## Olidammara

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> What he is saying is that your submission should include lots of explosions, a few good one liners and a gratitous skin shot. See if you can, in words, recreate the trailer for "The Scorpion King".
> 
> AV *




  Good one.
Thank you for your patience. I think it's time for me to move along now.


----------



## Zulkir

*Really important!!!*

All,

I have been stating that if a team of people want to submit a world that each of them must sign their own submission agreement form. This is not incorrect, but I am now informed by legal that it is okay for the team to all sign the same form. In addition - and this is critical- *you must print out our PDF version of the submission agreement form*. We cannot accept a printed version from another program (like MSWord). Finally, and this is also critical, *a seperate submission agreement must be signed for each world that is submitted.* For example:

Team Alpha with 4 members designs "IHOP: World of Pancakes" - one release form, four names on the form.
Team Beta with 4 members designs "Survivor: Lava Pits" and "World of Death" -  two release forms (one for each submission) each having all four names.

If someone has already submitted and their is a problem due to any of the above we will contact you and give you the opportunity to correct your submission. So far we have only received one problem submission due to the above issues and our admin is contacting that person (so I don't think this is going to be much of a problem).

Finally, we will be notifying people when this is all over, if they made the top ten cut. If you send an e-mail with your cover letter we will let you know by e-mail. If you do have an e-mail please do send it in your cover letter as it will really help our admin out in the contact process. If you do not have an e-mail or you did not send it in the cover letter, don't worry we will send out notice by snail mail.

AV


----------



## Tolen Mar

*Re: Really important!!!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *you must print out our PDF version of the submission agreement form*
> 
> Man!  I saw that, and went to wizards website to get the PDF.  Then I saw the template, and went to DL it.  That ticks me off!  I had my proposal all ready, it looked good, it read well, it was a professional job.  Now the template says that the proposal must have the following sections CLEARLY LABELLED!!!!
> 
> Up until that point, I was under the impression that labelling the entries didnt matter as long as they were all there, and all in order.  After adding those labels in, the flow is off, and it keeps getting interrupted by the stinkin labels!  I even had to go back and tighten it even more because adding those labels pushed it over the one page mark!
> 
> I guess Im done ranting, just make sure the rest of you remember to label those sections...


----------



## SteveMND

Thanks for the update, Anthony.  Since a large number of the early submissions were as a result of the non-PDF documents that were apparently sent out to the various fan sites (or at least ENworld), you may be getting a comparatively large number of entries that are going by that particular version...

Steve M


----------



## jester47

Orcus said:
			
		

> *As for the "movie trailer" idea, that is right on. You have 30 seconds to encapsulate a 3 hour movie. Same thing. You have 1 page to encapsulate a whole game world. Find the highlights, the theme, the feel. Show me the hero, show me a core action and conflict. Come up with a tag line. Every movie has one. That is your answer to question 1.
> 
> Clark *




Funny my free agent just called and was shouting "SHOW ME THE HERO!"

Aaron.


----------



## mythusmage

*An Odd Question*

What if all ten semi-finalists are from the same guy?


----------



## kingpaul

*cash disbursements*

I might be blind, but I don't think I've seen this question posted.

For those lucky few who manage to get money out of this, will WotC cut a check for the whole amount (and thus the winner is responsible for their own taxes), or will taxes be taken out of it?

I'm not familiar with these kinds of agreements (I'm a wage slave in a cube farm), so am ignorant.


----------



## mythusmage

As free lancers the three who have their proposals reach the final round will have to take care of the taxes themselves. This is earned income, and so is subject to state (if any) and Federal income tax.


----------



## jester47

*Re: Really important!!!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *All,
> 
> you must print out our PDF version of the submission agreement form. We cannot accept a printed version from another program (like MSWord).
> 
> If someone has already submitted and their is a problem due to any of the above we will contact you and give you the opportunity to correct your submission.
> 
> AV *




Mr. Valtera

I can tell you right now that I have two problems with the submission already.  I did not use the PDF and I did not clearly label my sections as I was going off the word document.  Should I just send in another, or should I wait to be contacted?  Thanks, 

Aaron.


----------



## Mouseferatu

*Re: Really important!!!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *In addition - and this is critical- you must print out our PDF version of the submission agreement form. We cannot accept a printed version from another program (like MSWord). *




AAAAAGGGHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!

I dropped my three submissions in the mail five minutes--_five minutes_--before I signed on and saw this.  And yeah, I'd used the MSWord version of the form that was "packaged" with the template itself.  

So when I'm contacted to fix the problem, will I need to resubmit the actual proposals and cover letters, or can I just send three release forms with a letter of explanation and trust that they'll be lined up with the proper proposals?


----------



## Rasyr

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *As free lancers the three who have their proposals reach the final round will have to take care of the taxes themselves. This is earned income, and so is subject to state (if any) and Federal income tax. *




Side note: You would most likely receive a form 1099, which is similiar to a W-2 (note to those not from the US, these are wage earning reports which get filed with income tax form). Which means that your taxes on this money would be due the following April 15th.


----------



## Spike Y Jones

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> Will you, at any time, make the top ten one page submissions public (so that all us interested folks can see what the blind panel thought was interesting/unique enough tomake it into the top 10?
> *




I don't think Anthony's noticed this question.

My guess is that, no, Wizards will not make the top 10 one-pagers public, because Wizards won't own the top 10 one-pagers. Whether those top 10 writers will want to post their entries will be up to them (but I'd hazard a guess that they wouldn't want to give any hints to their competition).

Spike Y Jones


----------



## mirzabah

*Re: Re: Really important!!!*



			
				jester47 said:
			
		

> *I can tell you right now that I have two problems with the submission already.  I did not use the PDF and I did not clearly label my sections as I was going off the word document.  Should I just send in another, or should I wait to be contacted?*



Have a think about that for a moment...

What's it going to do their schedule if they have to contact each and every person who submitted a proposal that didn't quite follow the guidelines? It's already been made abundantly clear that if a proposal breaks the rules, it gets binned. End of story.

In other words, resubmit your proposal.


----------



## Orcus

Talk about putting the cart before the horse! 

I can't believe there was a post about whether tax will be taken out of the check.  

Clark


----------



## Ghostwind

They were being, shall we say, rather "optimistic."


----------



## mirzabah

Orcus said:
			
		

> *Talk about putting the cart before the horse!
> 
> I can't believe there was a post about whether tax will be taken out of the check.  *



So I guess there's no point in asking whether or not they can make the cheque out to "Automobili Lamborghini"?


----------



## jester47

*Re: Re: Re: Really important!!!*



			
				mirzabah said:
			
		

> *Have a think about that for a moment...
> 
> What's it going to do their schedule if they have to contact each and every person who submitted a proposal that didn't quite follow the guidelines? It's already been made abundantly clear that if a proposal breaks the rules, it gets binned. End of story.
> 
> In other words, resubmit your proposal. *




Reread what he said above, there are two sources of information.  One is a PDF, the other a word document.  He said anyone using the word document will be contacted.  However, because I used the template in the word document I wound up not folowing the directions as posted on the web page.   I probably will be a typical case.  But I have 2 weeks to clear it up, so I am not stressing it.  In the wose case scenario I can make the 20 mile drive and hand it to someone.   But I hope it will get cleared up before that.  Still my submission has been revised and is now better than ever, so maybe I lucked out.  We will see.

Aaron.


----------



## kingpaul

Orcus said:
			
		

> *Talk about putting the cart before the horse!*



What's wrong with having the horse _push_ the cart?


----------



## Greybar

I'm hoping that all the questions and nigh-harrassment doesn't discourage WoTC from doing more fan-submission type contests in the future...

Thanks for your patience Zulkir (and the other WoTC guys answering on the Wizards boards).

John


----------



## Altmann

*Simple paperwork question*

On the submission form, I read
Submittee:
* By : _______
* Print Name : _________

 Which one is my name and what should I write on the other one ?

Thanks,
 YA


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: Simple paperwork question*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *On the submission form, I read
> Submittee:
> * By : _______
> * Print Name : _________
> 
> Which one is my name and what should I write on the other one ?
> 
> Thanks,
> YA *



*Sign* your name on the first line.


----------



## Altmann

Thanks.

And on the second one ?


----------



## Ivan

*New Requirements*

Yowza. 

Well, I sent mine off last night, and it looks like it's been invalidated. No problem, I'll resubmit it tonight/tomorrow once I've redone the submission agreement and retyped the one-pager with the labels and in the correct order.

Anthony, thanks for posting this news. I understand why these changes are necessary and appreciate your letting us know about them, rather than letting them stay buried on the official WOtC site.

- Ivan


----------



## Weeble

Altmann said:
			
		

> *Thanks.
> 
> And on the second one ? *




What does it say to do?


----------



## Blueicus

*...*

While it is slightly vague, I believe the first line (by:____) is for your signature while the second line (print name:____) is for your printed name (so people can actually discern what your name is if your signature isn't very clear)


----------



## Ivan

*Two Lines*

On the first line, use cursive handwriting for your name. 
On the second line, print your name.

I want to be clear that the following paragraph is no meant to be offensive, but rather, to be helpful in case the term "cursive is unfamiliar to you.

"Cursive" is the handwriting you see in common computer fonts like Brush Script MT, usually used to sign checks or adorn wedding invitations. "Printing" is the kind of lettering you tend to see in published works, or like the type we use for this message.

Does that help?

- Ivan


----------



## Weeble

You know, AV, I would have been extremely happy if after listing the requirements on the Wizards webpage, with the brief Q&A after, that NO other questions were answered.  I feel like we all are in preschool.  Let those that can't follow the directions worry about it.  They seem to be figuring it out as they go.


----------



## RobMuadib

*Wish they hadn't gone with an enter as often as you like rule for this.....*

After reading posts from people who are submitting at least a dozen proposals, I am starting to wish they would have limited it to one entry per person. Seems like the multiple proposals turns it into even more of a random lottery situation, sigh.

guess I can whip up several POOMA submissions as well, just to feel competitive. Anyone else feeling this way?

Rob


----------



## Patrick-S&S

*Re: Wish they hadn't gone with an enter as often as you like rule for this.....*



			
				RobMuadib said:
			
		

> *Guess I can whip up several POOMA submissions as well, just to feel competitive. Anyone else feeling this way?*




Well yes and no actually. I think that while they might write several dozen submissions I would suspect unless you have solid presentation and something that is interesting it won't matter. And so many submissions makes it look to me anyway, a kind of gambling without much luck. I have personally sent three ideas that I have been pondering on for years, and unless any of those is picked I will start publishing one of them on my own. I have been writing, publishing and mapping for HârnWorld now for years (and got published several times myself) and I am looking to enter the d20 arena. In any way I am a "winner".


----------



## Gez

The Thing To Do: write a hellish lot of different submissions about roughly the same world ! You just need to rephrase things and focus on an aspect or another... 
If you sent around 1 000 submissions of the same world, you can be pretty damn sure one of them at least will get picked. Of course, you may ran into trouble if several are selected...


----------



## Weeble

Gez said:
			
		

> *The Thing To Do: write a hellish lot of different submissions about roughly the same world !
> Of course, you may ran into trouble if several are selected... *




Good luck.


----------



## Desdichado

I think sending in multiple settings is only valuable if you've got multiple settings with a good concept that you've worked on for some time.

I'm probably going to send three, but all our concepts that I've kicked around for a few years.  I wouldn't be trying to throw together some kind of proposal just to have more numbers in.  This _isn't_ a lottery, and those kinds of proposals will get dumped real fast, I'd bet.


----------



## Olidammara

Multiple submission improve your chances, eh? ...

Submission No. 1: "Player characters slay monsters and collect treasure."

Submission No. 2: "Monsters? Treasure? -- Player characters slay the former to get to the latter!"

Submission No. 3: "A world where monsters guard treasure and player characters get in the way."

Submission No. 4: "Yeah, I got yo monster right *here*."

Submission No. 5: "Orcs guard pies."

Submission No. 6: "Treasure and monsters abound! Player characters romp! High adventure ensues!"

Submission No. 7: "Monsters + Player Characters = Conflict. The Prize? Treasure!"

Submission No. 8: "Player characters slay monsters and collect treasure. ... But not necessarily in the same way that I suggested previously. This one is different. Really. Call me at home and we can discuss the details to your satisfaction."


----------



## kingpaul

Olidammara said:
			
		

> *Submission No. 5: "Orcs guard pies."*



ROFLMAO!  This would be a great one, if for nothing else, the humor factor.


----------



## King_Stannis

Gez said:
			
		

> *The Thing To Do: write a hellish lot of different submissions about roughly the same world ! You just need to rephrase things and focus on an aspect or another...
> If you sent around 1 000 submissions of the same world, you can be pretty damn sure one of them at least will get picked. Of course, you may ran into trouble if several are selected... *




no offense, but this is why i'm even hesitating to send in one submission. man, WotC dropped the ball by not limiting the entries. or better yet, charging a few bucks per entry.


----------



## kingpaul

King_Stannis said:
			
		

> *no offense, but this is why i'm even hesitating to send in one submission. man, WotC dropped the ball by not limiting the entries. or better yet, charging a few bucks per entry. *



The limiting factor, I believe, will be that each entry needs to be entered with its own signed submission agreement.  Postal charges will mount, if nothing else.


----------



## Darraketh

King_Stannis said:
			
		

> *
> 
> no offense, but this is why i'm even hesitating to send in one submission. man, WotC dropped the ball by not limiting the entries. or better yet, charging a few bucks per entry. *




The sheer number of entries would make me immediately toss any that were not done professionally.

I hope we don't drive Anthony V. away. It would be so nice if he were able to keep us updated until the final setting hits the store shelves.


----------



## edbonny

Gez said:
			
		

> *The Thing To Do: write a hellish lot of different submissions about roughly the same world ! You just need to rephrase things and focus on an aspect or another...
> If you sent around 1 000 submissions of the same world, you can be pretty damn sure one of them at least will get picked. Of course, you may ran into trouble if several are selected... *




Posts like the one quoted above remind me of the hopeful "wanna-be stars" on the American Idol show on TV last night. For the entertainment of the viewing audience, an unfortunate combination of ambition, inexperience, and ego led to many hilarious moments.

Put bluntly, the kind of thinking in the above post (and many others here offering similarly attractive approaches) is simply naive and sorely misguided - precisely the wrong way to approach this task. There is no "angle" to figure out nor is there a "quick fix" that can circumvent the effort necessary into making your submission one that will stand out.

Keep in mind: It's not a lottery. It's a talent show. Sending in 1,000 hastily written submissions is the same as singing 1,000 songs badly on Star Search (or if you prefer, American Idol). You're not singing any better than the first time, and no one will be looking forward to your next performance.

Bottom line: This is about quality. This is about professionalism. This is about making the effort. And finally, this is about understanding fully what is required of you... And even after you do all this, you also understand that you still might not make the grade. But you realize that because you have these traits, you do stand a better chance of being chosen than someone who doesn't.

Work long hours on your proposal; Make it gripping; Read it out loud and do this often; Show it to people; Welcome their comments... Then put it down for a day before reading it again. Does it leap off the page? Will it make every gamer you ever met want to play in it? If not, think about how to rephrase it so it captures their attention.  Rinse, lather, repeat!

On June 21st, it's show time!


----------



## Pallis

*rules*

I'm sure I'll come off as another, unthinking knob, so bring on the flames.  

From http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020606b:
"You don't need to type your proposal onto a printout of this page, but it must follow this format and have these entries, in this order, clearly labeled."

That one concerns me a little.  Answer the questions.  Fine.  Number the questions.  Not thrilled, but fine.  Keep them in the same order.  I don't like that one, sorry.  Just like a movie trailer, the order can make a difference.  Have you ever seen a trailer, then watched the movie, and noticed that the trailer isn't always in the exact order of the movie?  They do what they can to knock your socks off.

The fact that we have to use the PDF document got me.  I can see why and I have no problem doing that.  I'm just glad I saw that.  I wasn't planning on reading ALL of these posts.  Good thing I did.  For those that want a link to the PDF, here you go:
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/files/SubmissionAgreement.pdf

Good luck, everyone.  May your fonts be too small and your grammar sloppy.


----------



## Staffan

*Re: rules*



			
				Pallis said:
			
		

> *That one concerns me a little.  Answer the questions.  Fine.  Number the questions.  Not thrilled, but fine.  Keep them in the same order.  I don't like that one, sorry.*



That's to make it easier for the people reading the submissions. If you're looking for the WHAM! factor of a movie trailer, the bulk of that's supposed to come from the "core ethos sentence".


----------



## nopantsyet

*Re: Re: rules*



			
				Staffan said:
			
		

> *
> That's to make it easier for the people reading the submissions. If you're looking for the WHAM! factor of a movie trailer, the bulk of that's supposed to come from the "core ethos sentence". *




I think also it goes to development of the idea.  I think the idea that wins will have individual strength in each separate answer withouth having ot reliy on interconnections, premises etc.  The questions are broken up and put in an order that makes it very difficult for a world to distinguish it from any other.  And I'm pretty certain that if the first couple answers don't grab their attention, they are never going to get to your "What's unique?" answer.  And judging my submission-in-progress by that critera, it's destined for a recycling facility in the Pacific Northwest.


----------



## seasong

*Re: Wish they hadn't gone with an enter as often as you like rule for this.....*



			
				RobMuadib said:
			
		

> *After reading posts from people who are submitting at least a dozen proposals, I am starting to wish they would have limited it to one entry per person. Seems like the multiple proposals turns it into even more of a random lottery situation, sigh.
> 
> guess I can whip up several POOMA submissions as well, just to feel competitive. Anyone else feeling this way?
> *




The only lottery aspect is during the "aaaah! too many submissions! throw 'em out!" part, when the judges will toss stuff for any reason at all. The best way to survive this period is to not give them any reason to toss you. That means CAREFUL writing, not prolific writing.

Once past that part, I'm pretty sure that 99% of the people submitting a dozen or so proposals will have been roundfiled, leaving the error-free to compete on the merits of their ideas.

a little fish in a big pond (thomas weigel)


----------



## Twilight

*Orcus*

Orcus,

Those ethos sentences you wrote were very well written.

Must I write on such a level to be chosen for the 10 page, or just make sure my ethos is of proper size and a good summary?


----------



## Orcus

Twilight-

I cant tell you what it takes to win. I'm not on the selection committee. But I have used this type of selection in the past and I have asked people to boil down their project into one sentence. So I know what I expect in those situations, which is why I gave the examples I did. You can rest assured that industry types will have finely honed sentences, far superior to the ones I made up off the top of my head for examples.

For those straining against the "requirements"-

This is a JOB offer, essentially. Treat it like that. Follow the directions. You dont get points for breaking the rules.

Just a suggestion.

Clark


----------



## Tallow

Orcus said:
			
		

> *Twilight-
> 
> 
> For those straining against the "requirements"-
> 
> This is a JOB offer, essentially. Treat it like that. Follow the directions. You dont get points for breaking the rules.
> 
> Just a suggestion.
> 
> Clark *




Yeah, that's what I don't understand.  Someone comes up to you and says, "hey I wanna pay you $120,000."  You say, "Ok, whatta I gotta do?"  They say, "You gotta write me something using my template."  You say, "What, are you nuts?  Stop stiffling my creativity!"  Yeah right... come on...  if someone is going to pay you, you gotta do things the way they want it done, or don't expect to get paid.

Andy Christian


----------



## seasong

*Ouch*

I sent my semifinal draft of the single page to my best friend for a critique yesterday, and got back the bleeding manuscript this morning. Man. 14 hours of work over six days and it's not done.

I'll be real lucky if I can complete two by the deadline.

Anyway, just wanted to share my pain. On to my questions:

1. "Clearly Labelled". I am assuming, presently, that this means "numbered and in the proper paragraph order". Is this correct?

(If it means "the full text of the question included", I'm going to have to cut out _another_ 100 words to fit it all.  )

2. The core ethos sentence monster is eating me alive. Why, God, why!?

3. Anthony has mentioned that "addition" of rules is no problem, but that "subtraction or revision" would require an impressive piece of work. So, by way of example, do the elves of Dark Sun count as revision, or addition?

Thanks,


----------



## Twilight

*....*

Im fine with all the rules and stuff, dont mind that, but seeing as how I dont write fiction everyday and am not majoring in something relating to such, i feel im gonna get stiffed by all these guys with elegant writing.


----------



## Zulkir

Morning all,

Okay, new round (this one is sponsored by Vegimita Vita mix)

1) On the issue of labeling the questions in the template - as long as you are clear about the questions you are answring it is not that vital. However, the easier you make it on us the more likely we are to pay attention. If the answers are broken down by paragraph and they follow the same order as the template there won't be a problem. If you turn in an epic poem in which the correct reading of assonance and consonance reveals the hidden answers we won't bother.

2) DO NOT RESUBMIT IF YOU DID NOT USE THE PDF. Our new legal counsel "Julie" has agreed to reveiw any submissions that come in not using the PDF.  As long as no changes were made to the content of the submission agreement we will accept it.

3) If all ten finalist are the same guy we will higher that person immediately

4) I have covered whether or not we will make the 10 pagers public. the answer is "no". Here's why. We want to continue the process blind. Only our admin and the people selected will know until we select the top three. After that it will be up to the the other seven if they want to "go public". 

5) On submitting multiple proposals. I actually believe that it will be faster for me to reject a dozen ill conceived and poorly written proposals then it will for our admin to try and track whether a particular submitte has sent in seperate entries. Given that it seemed easier to just let people do as they wanted and let competative evolution win out.

AV


----------



## Talaysen

> *
> 3) If all ten finalist are the same guy we will higher that person immediately
> *




Hey, what if someone doesn't actually submit ten entries, but all of his four or five or so entries make it into the next round?


----------



## Mouseferatu

> 2) DO NOT RESUBMIT IF YOU DID NOT USE THE PDF. Our new legal counsel "Julie" has agreed to reveiw any submissions that come in not using the PDF. As long as no changes were made to the content of the submission agreement we will accept it.





GHKLK!!!   

Man, Anthony, I keep reading your replies just a few minutes too late.  First yesterday, when I'd mailed the incorrect release forms just a few minutes before I learned it had to the PDF.  And now, today, when I've actually managed to get the letters _back_ from my postal carrier, only to learn that they'd have been acceptible afte all.

Sigh.

Oh, well.  Now that I've got 'em back anyway, I'll include the proper release forms when I send them out again.  The things we go through for a shot at a measly $120,000 and industry-wide fame.  

(BTW, Anthony, despite the fact that my timing apparently sucks, I just want to add my thanks that you're taking the time to answer questions on this.  )


----------



## Twilight

*...*

Does being an excellent writer get us points anthony?

Or is it purely our ideas, following directions, and ya'lls invisionment of it?

If being an excellent write is important, I have near no chance 
I can create good ideas and such, but writing them down in a manner as good as Tolkein...well...there ain't no way! (lol, dont pay attention to that ain't in answering this)


----------



## Tallow

*Re: ...*



			
				Twilight said:
			
		

> *Does being an excellent writer get us points anthony?
> 
> Or is it purely our ideas, following directions, and ya'lls invisionment of it?
> 
> If being an excellent write is important, I have near no chance
> I can create good ideas and such, but writing them down in a manner as good as Tolkein...well...there ain't no way! (lol, dont pay attention to that ain't in answering this) *




Um... I'd say that being an excellent writer is going to be paramount to winning this.  Illiterate people have great ideas too, but that doesn't mean that WotC want to give them $120 grand.  This is a writing contest after all.

Andy Christian


----------



## bluetroll

*Free advice*

Good luck everyone!


----------



## Ghostwind

Ok folks, once again we're seeing the same type of questions go round and round again.  *If you haven't been following this thread from the beginning, go back and read every page before asking your question.  Odds are, the answer is already there.* 

Secondly, there have been several industry professionals on this list that have given you guidance and suggestions on what you should do to improve your odds of not having your submission immediately trashcanned.  *Listen to them and follow what they say.*  They are not trying to mislead you, the advice they offer is sound!!

Without even addressing the type of content you are submitting, I reiterate these points that must be followed if you want to even have a chance:
-No spelling errors.
-No grammatical errors.
-Use a readable font size of no less than 10 point and margins no less than one-half inch (I would recommend one inch margins).
-Follow the directions as specified by Wizards of the Coast.  If you aren't willing to do this, then don't waste your time or the selection committee's time by submitting an entry.
-Proofread everything over and over, then have someone else do it.
-Lastly, write cleanly and concisely.  Make your point without dwelling on and on about nothing.  Each section should be able to summed up in one sentence with the rest being supporting fill material.  Putting it simply and bluntly, if you can't write well, you're going to have a high first hurdle to beat.  Try having a friend who is better than you at writing help you put your thoughts to paper.

Someone mentioned that this is a job application.  Nothing could be more true.  You should be giving it your all to get hired, but you need to be more professional than you've ever been.  Think of it this way, you wouldn't show up to a job interview wearing jeans and a T-shirt, so it only makes sense to make sure your proposal is the equivalent of showing up in a suit and tie.  If it's not, it will go the same as a job application from the guy in jeans and a T-shirt...  The trash can.


----------



## mythusmage

*How to Get Rejected*

Monaco in two point type. Fit more on a page that way.

Yellow print on white paper. Nothing says creative like yellow print on white paper.

Consider the directions vague suggestions. Show your adaptability.

One page per question. This is obviously what they meant.

Write in dialect and cant. Really distinguishes the races and classes.

Spelling Reform 12. Save the English language from its sordid past.

Grammar is the old lady you visit at the home, show Yoda how its done.

Follow the advice above and I guarantee your submission will be trashed faster than a dirty diaper.


----------



## Fast Learner

Gez said:
			
		

> *The Thing To Do: write a hellish lot of different submissions about roughly the same world ! You just need to rephrase things and focus on an aspect or another...
> If you sent around 1 000 submissions of the same world, you can be pretty damn sure one of them at least will get picked. Of course, you may ran into trouble if several are selected... *




This concept has already been beaten into the ground (appropriately), but there's another unmentioned angle: Why would the selection committee pick something that, because of the many submissions, appears to _already_ be a very common campaign world?

Uniqueness will certainly be a factor, I'm sure.


----------



## Weeble

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *Ok folks, once again we're seeing the same type of questions go round and round again.  If you haven't been following this thread from the beginning, go back and read every page before asking your question.  Odds are, the answer is already there.
> 
> *




Folks, ignore this post!!!! Please do not read any of the advice from anyone, including professionals or Wizards employees!  Don't read the FAQ and don't read the simple directions on the Wizards site.  Don't worry about the previous posts on this thread either.  They are meaningless.  Just submit your fabulous idea, any way you want, and you will be ok.


----------



## jester47

Zulkir said:
			
		

> 1) On the issue of labeling the questions in the template - as long as you are clear about the questions you are answring it is not that vital. However, the easier you make it on us the more likely we are to pay attention. If the answers are broken down by paragraph and they follow the same order as the template there won't be a problem. If you turn in an epic poem in which the correct reading of assonance and consonance reveals the hidden answers we won't bother.
> 
> 2) DO NOT RESUBMIT IF YOU DID NOT USE THE PDF. Our new legal counsel "Julie" has agreed to reveiw any submissions that come in not using the PDF.  As long as no changes were made to the content of the submission agreement we will accept it.
> 
> AV [/B]




Thanks for clearing that up AV.  I can only hope I make it as I just made changes to the document that really show the world for what it is and these can make into the ten pager.  But you know what?  I am done with this until the 10 are announced.  If I don't get selected I have a Campaign setting that rocks the house and I will start using.  

This does give me an idea.  The criteria given has made me flesh out my world and really explain what it is about.  Even if we are not in the finals, can we still see the guidelines given to the 10 and the 3?  Lets just say I like to finnish what I start.

Aaron.


----------



## myrdden

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *...
> 3) If all ten finalist are the same guy we will higher that person immediately
> ...
> AV *




Higher or hire?

Some subtle advice from Anthony, I think...

Proofread....proofread...proofread...and spellcheck.

 

Myrdden


----------



## Rasyr

jester47 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This does give me an idea.  The criteria given has made me flesh out my world and really explain what it is about.  Even if we are not in the finals, can we still see the guidelines given to the 10 and the 3?  Lets just say I like to finnish what I start.
> 
> Aaron. *




I would like to second this request, that the guidelines given to the ten and the three be made available to those who are not selected...  

Even if I am not selected, I really would like to see it fleshed out like the winners are going to flesh out theirs....


----------



## Hawkshere

I apologize in advance if this has been posted already.

Ryan Dancey weighs in on the contest with a bunch of advice for submitters:

http://www.gamingreport.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=XForum&file=viewthread&tid=86

I hope Morrus sees that thread - ought to be linked in the next batch of news...


----------



## mattcolville

*Re: Ouch*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *2. The core ethos sentence monster is eating me alive. Why, God, why!?
> *




God knows there's no way I'm going to go back through here and read all those messages, so forvige me if this has already been stated.

I've seen a couple of product submission forms from WotC and that one line core ethos is a bugger for two reasons.

1) The example they gave is meaningless. The example could be used to apply equally well to any of Clark's examples, for instance, which were really good. In fact, it's an example of why it's so weird to me that Wizards is doing this. The setting they *have* whose success they're trying to *duplicate* wouldn't have gotten past the first weeding-out process. Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because it's just a cool place for adventures to happen. And that's where #2 comes in.

2) these questions are difficult to answer for people with ready campaign worlds because WotC is looking for something with a good story. Campaign worlds don't have stories. FR isn't a story, the LotR is. So I wonder, are they *really* looking for a good story? Cool and interesting answers to their questions wouldn't necessarily make a good campaign setting. LotR has a great story, anyone could answer the 6 questions in 5 seconds. But it's generally considered one of the more restrictive settings to game in. There's already a monolithic story going on in there. The canonical fantasy quest happens there. 

So here's my advice. If your campaign world is just an awesome place to adventure in, and you don't know who the players play or who the bad guys are because presumably that's up to the GM and the players. Then *make something up*. Make up a story that you feel could *only* be told in your campaign setting. Then you're selling the story and the setting together. If you don't have an iconic, high concept story (it's like Braveheart, but with dwarves, it's like Star Trek, but with elves exploring the world) then you need one.


----------



## Zulkir

myrdden said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Higher or hire?
> 
> Some subtle advice from Anthony, I think...
> 
> Proofread....proofread...proofread...and spellcheck.
> 
> 
> 
> Myrdden *




I meant what I said, we will immediately place them on a stool so they will be higher.

AV


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: Re: Ouch*



			
				mattcolville said:
			
		

> *
> 
> God knows there's no way I'm going to go back through here and read all those messages, so forvige me if this has already been stated.
> 
> I've seen a couple of product submission forms from WotC and that one line core ethos is a bugger for two reasons.
> 
> 1) The example they gave is meaningless. The example could be used to apply equally well to any of Clark's examples, for instance, which were really good. In fact, it's an example of why it's so weird to me that Wizards is doing this. The setting they *have* whose success they're trying to *duplicate* wouldn't have gotten past the first weeding-out process. Not because there's anything wrong with it, but because it's just a cool place for adventures to happen. And that's where #2 comes in.
> 
> 2) these questions are difficult to answer for people with ready campaign worlds because WotC is looking for something with a good story. Campaign worlds don't have stories. FR isn't a story, the LotR is. So I wonder, are they *really* looking for a good story? Cool and interesting answers to their questions wouldn't necessarily make a good campaign setting. LotR has a great story, anyone could answer the 6 questions in 5 seconds. But it's generally considered one of the more restrictive settings to game in. There's already a monolithic story going on in there. The canonical fantasy quest happens there.
> 
> So here's my advice. If your campaign world is just an awesome place to adventure in, and you don't know who the players play or who the bad guys are because presumably that's up to the GM and the players. Then *make something up*. Make up a story that you feel could *only* be told in your campaign setting. Then you're selling the story and the setting together. If you don't have an iconic, high concept story (it's like Braveheart, but with dwarves, it's like Star Trek, but with elves exploring the world) then you need one. *




My advice, don't try to "game" the submission. Don't try to predict what we want. Just submit you're very best idea. If your world has a story then submit that, if it doesn't have a main story but is more like FR (alot of little stories) submit that. If you try to out think us you'll just weaken your proposal.

AV


----------



## Jamie44

*Here we go...*

Well I'm getting ready to mail it off =)

I'm so nervous! This is something I want to do for the rest of my life. Just need to get my foot in the door and hope you guys like what I am capable of...Here's hoping


----------



## Orcus

Jamie-

I'm glad you are submitting. Everyone should. But dont hang your whole career in gaming on this submission. Do your best. Submit your setting. But a whole world is a huge undertaking for a first time author. That is a huge task. So if you dont make the cut, dont lose heart. Pitch the various d20 companies on smaller products and keep giving it a shot. Besides, you may win and then you can turn around and give me the pep talk I just gave you. 

Clark


----------



## X-Marks!

Heya All!  The Gaming Report link was very helpful.  Does anyone else have links to other message boards on this same subject?  In particular, in the swamp of the Wizards.com site boards?


----------



## Twilight

*...*

I am a little confused on that report that someone recently linked me to.

In the template it asks if magic is scarce or not.  So, do they WANT us to make it be abundant since they like the magic?  I personally think its odd to have an overflowing pool of magic, seems to make it worth less when you go into a bar asking for a light and around 100 bolts of lightning torch your pipe.


----------



## myrdden

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I meant what I said, we will immediately place them on a stool so they will be higher.
> 
> AV *




 

Well placed sir...

Touché!

 

Myrdden


----------



## myrdden

*Re: ...*



			
				Twilight said:
			
		

> *So, do they WANT us to make it be abundant since they like the magic?  *




See Anthony's post above.  He makes one of the most important points so far.

Myrdden


----------



## Twilight

*...*

I think he just got tired of all the questions, lol


----------



## Xanray

Hello Everyone

Like a lot of folks here, I've never submitted anything for publishing before, so I want to make one hundred percent sure that I understand exactly what WOTC is requesting. I downloaded the forms, and read the instructions carefully, but I'm hoping to clear up a couple of questions I have. 

The form I downloaded states:

1. be covered with a signed, unmodified copy of the Idea Submission Agreement
2. include an accompanying cover letter with contact information
3. be structured in accord with the attached template.

Well I understand one and three, but not two. When the form describes a cover letter with contact information, are they referring to the Idea Submission Agreement, which requires a name, address, and signature, or a separate sheet of paper? 

This might seem obvious to most people reading the forms, but I just want to make sure.

Also, the template has a series of questions. Are the questions to be filled out and sent in, or is the template simply a list questions, that my one page submission should answer, as well as any other important information I can squeeze onto a single page? In other words is the template a guideline or an actual form that I should print out and mail?

I'd hate to over think this, and screw it up, so if anyone here could clear this up, I would appreciate it.

Thank You

Xanray


----------



## JoeCrow

*Attention AV: please confirm?*

Over at Gaming Report they've got this:


> WotC world submission update
> Posted 2002-06-12 16:38:14 by damonwhite
> realmprotector Reports: WotC's Don Williams has emailed a change in the submissions for the world contest:
> WotC is now asking that there be one submission per idea and that submissions should be in PDF format burned on a disc and mailed to:
> New Setting Proposals
> Wizards of the Coast Publishing
> P.O. Box 707
> Renton, WA 98057-0707
> You can still send a phsyical letter however PDF is preferable.
> Don Williams
> Public Relations Manager
> Wizards of the Coast




¿Qué? What's up with that? Is this accurate, Anthony?


----------



## uberkitty

*cookies? margins?*

Hi.  I'm new.  *offers around plate of cookies*

Let me just say: thank God for this thread.  I was really losing my mind trying to interpret the Six Questions, but reading through this thread (yep, you betcha, from start to finish) really helped me.  Not just AV, but all the folks who are taking it so seriously and being so sensible.  Thank you.

(Mmwwwahahaha.  Fools!  You gave me the keys to the kingdom!  Er, kidding, I'm nowhere near that confident.)

I think I'm close to breaking the back of the one-page submission.  As a writer, I find it a terrific exercise in self-editing.  I'm amazed at my feeling of accomplishment when I manage to excise enough words to bring a paragraph up a line.  

I'm wondering how much y'all are trying to cram in--are you skipping lines between question and answer? How small are your margins?  Are you leaving the questions in larger typeface than your text?  I'm trying hard to hold on to as much white space as I can--it's easier on the eyes, looks more professional, etc.  Also, I kind of enjoy rising to the challenge of keeping it brief and concise rather than pushing the outside of the content envelope.


----------



## Talaysen

*Re: Attention AV: please confirm?*



			
				JoeCrow said:
			
		

> *Over at Gaming Report they've got this:
> 
> 
> ¿Qué? What's up with that? Is this accurate, Anthony? *




This sounds highly unlikely to me - especially considering that not everyone has access to PDF creation tools - but I suppose we'll find out sometime tomorrow.


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: Attention AV: please confirm?*



> *This sounds highly unlikely to me - especially considering that not everyone has access to PDF creation tools - but I suppose we'll find out sometime tomorrow. *




I received an email from Wotc's PR department but have asked for a clarification because it simply did not make sense.  I have a good reason the believe that once clarified, the revised rules will simply affirm what Anthony said earlier about the legal form must come from the pdf download that is on Wotc's site and that you are now limited to a single submission.  Beyond that, everything should continue as previously stated, meaning mail your stuff in after you have followed all of the directions (old and new).

As soon as I get confirmation from Wotc's PR department or directly from Anthony, I will post here as well as on my site.


----------



## Talaysen

Wait - limited to a single submission, period, or a single submission for each idea? The message above - cryptic as it is - seems to imply the latter, and it seems like AV would have said something if they were considering such a move.

Seems to me that changing it from "submit as many ideas as you like" to "one idea per person" overnight would be unfair to those who have not yet sent in their entries. I mean, the early entrants get to throw out all their ideas, and the rest of us have to make the Tough Decisions?

I'm REALLY hoping that's not the case. Any chance you could post the e-mail here (assuming that I read your post right and it's not a private e-mail from an individual, as opposed to a corporate e-mail) so we could try to interpret it for ourselves?


----------



## Ghostwind

The email came from Don Williams, head of Wotc's Public Relations department, and as soon as I get a confirmation and/or clarification, I will post the contents of that or both email(s) for all to read.


----------



## mythusmage

It's a troll. The bit about a PDF burned on a CD should be a clue. Somebody's having fun at people's expense.


----------



## Mouseferatu

Talaysen said:
			
		

> *Wait - limited to a single submission, period, or a single submission for each idea? The message above - cryptic as it is - seems to imply the latter, and it seems like AV would have said something if they were considering such a move.*




I wouldn't call it cryptic.  It says one submission per idea, not one per author.  That, to me, says "Send as many ideas as you want, just don't sent the same one twice."

As for the rest, well, as long as the letters are still accepted--which it says they are--they can "prefer" whatever they want.  Many of us don't have access to PDF programs _or_ CD burners.

But frankly, the whole thing smells fishy to me, regardless of source.  Changing the rules in the middle smacks of unprofessionalism at best, trolling at worst.


----------



## Talaysen

mouseferatu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I wouldn't call it cryptic.  It says one submission per idea, not one per author.  That, to me, says "Send as many ideas as you want, just don't sent the same one twice."
> 
> As for the rest, well, as long as the letters are still accepted--which it says they are--they can "prefer" whatever they want.  Many of us don't have access to PDF programs or CD burners.
> 
> But frankly, the whole thing smells fishy to me, regardless of source.  Changing the rules in the middle smacks of unprofessionalism at best, trolling at worst. *




In this case I was discussing both the message from Gaming Report and the post here by Steve Creech...and Steve's post did seem to imply that it might turn into one submission per person. (To me, anyway.) Hence the confusion.


----------



## Savage Wombat

*I just wanted to add...*

A lot of people have given really good advice in this thread.  But I want to reiterate one, often overlooked point - 

Have Fun.

Of all the people reading this post, only ten are even going to be considered in the second round.  So a lot of people are going to be really disappointed, if the only reason they're in this is for the chance at stardom.

I found the idea a wonderful challenge.  To come up with a proposal that, in my mind, was a worthy entrant - regardless of whether it wins - was an accomplishment in itself.  I enjoyed the creative process involved, and the requirements from WotC made me think in new and different directions.

I also suspect that someone who's having fun creating their entry will actually write a better entry than someone who's trying to crank something out.

So be sure to enjoy yourself while you do this.  When you're having fun, no effort is ultimately wasted.

Best of luck to all,

Savage Wombat


----------



## seasong

*Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				uberkitty said:
			
		

> *
> I'm wondering how much y'all are trying to cram in--are you skipping lines between question and answer? How small are your margins?  Are you leaving the questions in larger typeface than your text?  I'm trying hard to hold on to as much white space as I can--it's easier on the eyes, looks more professional, etc.  Also, I kind of enjoy rising to the challenge of keeping it brief and concise rather than pushing the outside of the content envelope. *




12 point Times New Roman
1 inch margins
white space between paragraphs
reasonably sized titles (and an overall title in 20 point)
~450 words

I could use another 100-200 words if I had them, but they're not absolutely essential to describing my ideas, so I decided the readability was worth it.

And the core ethos sentence (which is still eating my alive) is probably the most important part. I've got two versions of it at present, but either one still needs some cleaning up.


----------



## Weeble

No one should believe anything that comes from a Wizards employee or from the Wizards official D&D site.  It's all garbage and not the way you should submit your idea.


----------



## kingpaul

Weeble said:
			
		

> *No one should believe anything that comes from a Wizards employee or from the Wizards official D&D site.  It's all garbage and not the way you should submit your idea. *



By that logic, I would surmise you to be saying the contest is a sham.


----------



## Desdichado

Uhh, for the last several pages of this thread now, Weeble has been throwing out tongue-in-cheek bad advice.  I wouldn't take this latest one seriously any more than the others.

And if you haven't read the whole thread, DON'T POST!


----------



## BiggusGeekus

OK,

Last week I printed out the agreement from Word.  I clipped it down by changing the font so WotC would have one less piece of paper to deal with.  I sent everything in last Thursday.  I have not heard from WotC saying that I'll have to re-send. 

On the one hand, I think everything I did was OK.  On the other hand, I'm getting conflicting messages from WotC about what is and is not good.  Should I resend?  It sounds like it might be technically required, but I don't want to spam them.


----------



## Mercule

*Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				uberkitty said:
			
		

> *
> I'm wondering how much y'all are trying to cram in--are you skipping lines between question and answer? How small are your margins?  Are you leaving the questions in larger typeface than your text?  I'm trying hard to hold on to as much white space as I can--it's easier on the eyes, looks more professional, etc.  Also, I kind of enjoy rising to the challenge of keeping it brief and concise rather than pushing the outside of the content envelope.
> *




I'm using .75 inch margins because anything larger looks hideous to me.  None-the-less, I think I'll be able to double-space everything with 10 pt. font.  I'm feeling pretty good about being able to condense the highlights of a 20-year old setting down that tight.

I still have this nagging feeling that I'm leaving something out, but I'm countering that by not including even a single sentence that I don't think slaps the reader upside the head.

I've never submitted anything professionally before and I have to echo the thanks of others to the board members (and Anthony, of course).  I'm still far from cocky about my submission, but at least I feel like I'll be competing on the basis of my skill and strength of ideas and not an instant DQ from sheer ignorance.


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				Mercule said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm using .75 inch margins because anything larger looks hideous to me.  None-the-less, I think I'll be able to double-space everything with 10 pt. font.  I'm feeling pretty good about being able to condense the highlights of a 20-year old setting down that tight.
> 
> I still have this nagging feeling that I'm leaving something out, but I'm countering that by not including even a single sentence that I don't think slaps the reader upside the head.
> 
> I've never submitted anything professionally before and I have to echo the thanks of others to the board members (and Anthony, of course).  I'm still far from cocky about my submission, but at least I feel like I'll be competing on the basis of my skill and strength of ideas and not an instant DQ from sheer ignorance. *




I know what you mean man.  I've had to keep hitting myself to keep from second guessing myself, and trying to write what the panelists want to see.  Just write what I know, do a good job, and hope that the idea is one that meets their fancy.  I've had some good feedback on it from friends, so I guess the more I second guess myself, the more it becomes an over-edited piece of trash, rather than a creative expose.

Andy Christian


----------



## edbonny

*doublespaced?*



			
				Mercule said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm using .75 inch margins because anything larger looks hideous to me.  None-the-less, I think I'll be able to double-space everything with 10 pt. font.  I'm feeling pretty good about being able to condense the highlights of a 20-year old setting down that tight...
> 
> *




Is doublespacing a requirement? A recommendation? Something always done for Dragon magazine submissions and thus done here? Is everyone doing it? I have actively searched this thread and the template for anything on doublespacing requirements and found nothing.


----------



## Ghostwind

*New Rules For Submissions Revised and Clarified*

Here is the text of the email that was sent to me that clarifies the new revisions to the submission process:

_Steve – good questions.  It is best if people go to our site and download the proposal in the PDF format, fill it out completely, then print it out and submit it to us in hardcopy.  No need to burn to a CD-ROM or disk.  The only change is that the document is now in a PDF format and not a word document.  And, one proposal submission form per idea.  The link is on the front page of the
Wizards’ home page.

Sorry for the confusion.
Don Williams
Public Relations Manager
Wizards of the Coast_

This means exactly what I surmised in an earlier post and what Anthony said previously.  Download, print out and sign the pdf version of the legal documentation included in the proposal.  You then need to include that signed document along with your one page proposal and a cover letter containing your contact information.  *There is absolutely no need to burn a CD as was reported by GamingReport.com earlier.*

I will post a further clarification on the single idea question as soon as I get an answer.


----------



## Zulkir

*READ IMPORTANT!!!*

All,

Our PR department sent out an erroneous e-mail late yesterday saying that you had to have a PDF file burned to CD (or some such wonkiness). Ignore it completely. Please let everyone know that it was an error on our PR department and it can be safely ignored.

All that they were supposed to say was that the Submission Agreement must be printed from the PDF version, but you guys already know that.

Help me out here folks I can't post this as far and wide as I would like I'm starting to get buried.

AV


----------



## KDLadage

*oh dear...*

...what if you already sent you submission (and, I suspect, it has already arrived) and you put teh whole thing together before there was a PDF to use... (I used the .doc file, printed and signed).


----------



## Mercule

*Re: doublespaced?*



			
				Neorxnawang said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Is doublespacing a requirement? A recommendation? Something always done for Dragon magazine submissions and thus done here? Is everyone doing it? I have actively searched this thread and the template for anything on doublespacing requirements and found nothing. *




No my knowledge, no, it isn't a requirement.  I can't even tell you if it's a good idea or not.  I think that's a question Anthony has specifically avoided answering.

I was making the statement to illustrate how much I was able to condense my submission.  I could have just as easily said "A half page."


----------



## EvilPheemy

*Pats Zulkir gently on the head... there, there...*

You have all my sympathy Anthony.  I'm tempted to send you a firemen's helmet as a symbol of all the fires you've been assigned to put out w/regards to this project.

No, really... I'm lauging _with_ you.

When all this is over, even if I don't win a dime, I'll buy you a beer just because *you'll need it*!

Now, back to those stacks of proposals!  Schnell!  Schnell!


----------



## Parcher

Folks:

It's not necessary to double-space your submissions. However, let me reiterate that it is *very* important to proofread them carefully. To a substantial extent, this part of the process is about your ability to follow directions. 

On behalf of Anthony and myself, I wanted to compliment the people on this list and on other boards for your enthusiasm and support for this project. It's great to see the fantasy community so excited about something. We look forward to reading your submissions.


----------



## Tom Cashel

Peter, I'd like to join the others who have thanked you and Anthony for taking the time to post answers to questions here.  It is _much_ appreciated!

My partner and I are still fine-tuning our submission.  We just had a very productive lunch hour going over the details.  I'll tell you this much: it helps to be an Editor...


----------



## Pallis

*thanks*

I whole-heartedly agree on the _thank you's_.  I'm amazed that AV and PArcher (and other Wizards folks I've missed) have read half the posts, let alone post so much.  They must have as much enthusiasm for this as we do.

I'd like to also add my encouragement for Wizards to send out the 10-pager outline so that even if we don't make it to that stage, we can flesh out what we have.  I know that I'd like to incorporate my submission ideas into my own campaign.

(insert smartass remark about PDF files and font sizes here)


----------



## uberkitty

*bets*

Are we taking bets as to how many submissions Wizards is going to get?  (Price Is Right rules--winner is closest without going over?)  I volunteer to keep track of who guesses what.

Winner gets ... uh ... a small amount of respect?


----------



## Ywain

Uberkitty,

That would be fun, but start up a new thread for contests.  This one is long enough without making it fun.


----------



## Rasyr

*Re: bets*



			
				uberkitty said:
			
		

> *Are we taking bets as to how many submissions Wizards is going to get?  (Price Is Right rules--winner is closest without going over?)  I volunteer to keep track of who guesses what.
> 
> Winner gets ... uh ... a small amount of respect? *




Yeah, but is WOTC keeping track? And if so, are they counting every single submission, or just those that make it to the panel of judges (i.e. not the one being roundfiled)?


----------



## Ghostwind

*Number of submissions allowed*

To clear up any confusion on the number of submissions you may send to Wotc, here is the text of the reply I received from Don Williams, PR Manager for Wizards of the Coast:

_Each person can submit as many proposals as they wish as long as it is one proposal submission form per idea.  One envelope per idea._ 

This should set the record straight and clear up any questions regarding this manner.


----------



## uberkitty

*hmmm.*

I will start a new thread if anyone's actually interested (e-mail me if you are), but that was a good point about whether they're even keeping track.  I bet they are (remember that they're assigning a number to each submission, so presumably they're keeping track of the numbers), but they may not ever make the info public.


----------



## Olidammara

I don't know if you've seen this before, but it's full of useful information about the latest Wizards of the Coast contest:

http://test.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14302&perpage=20&pagenumber=1


----------



## SSquirrel

*Iconic vs archetype characters*

Ok so we're not supposed to include iconic characters, but instead archetypal.  My quetsion is this..is iconic considered saying things like "a human priest, dwarven fighter, elven mage and halfling thief are working to blah blah blah and their mothers blah blah"?  So instead I should say things like "new adventurers out to make a buck and see thew orld"?


----------



## Orcus

Oldimmara, please knock it off. Your comments, while possibly funny on other threads, have been universally useless, not funny, and serve to do nothing but confuse people when the whole point of this particular thread is to inform them. Please go be juvenile somewhere else.

Clark


----------



## Rasyr

Orcus said:
			
		

> *Oldimmara, please knock it off. Your comments, while possibly funny on other threads, have been universally useless, not funny, and serve to do nothing but confuse people when the whole point of this particular thread is to inform them. Please go be juvenile somewhere else.
> 
> Clark *




Well said!!


----------



## myrdden

Orcus said:
			
		

> *Oldimmara, please knock it off. Your comments, while possibly funny on other threads, have been universally useless, not funny, and serve to do nothing but confuse people when the whole point of this particular thread is to inform them. Please go be juvenile somewhere else.
> 
> Clark *




I second the comment.

Myrdden


----------



## mythusmage

*Oldimmara*

Let me point out that if you do keep it up, you could find yourself barred from these boards. Do you want that?


----------



## Skarp Hedin

> I don't know if you've seen this before, but it's full of useful information about the latest Wizards of the Coast contest:




Worst. Troll. Ever.


----------



## Christian

*Re: oh dear...*



			
				KDLadage said:
			
		

> *...what if you already sent you submission (and, I suspect, it has already arrived) and you put teh whole thing together before there was a PDF to use... (I used the .doc file, printed and signed). *




Twelve hours, and no answer to this? Not even a 'how dare you post if you haven't read all 700 pages of this thread' response? 

Anthony stated somewhere above that he checked with their legal department & this is OK, as long as the Word document was not in any way altered. I don't know if this applies to the person above who changed the font, but while I'd expect so, I'd resubmit if I were him. (Me, I'm still working on that darn concept summary sentence ...)


----------



## Christian

*Re: Oldimmara*



			
				mythusmage said:
			
		

> *Let me point out that if you do keep it up, you could find yourself barred from these boards. Do you want that? *




Geez, if people were barred from these boards for being immature a**holes, there'd be about twelve members. And that was a fairly funny bit-for Olidimarra, anyway. Although it would have been better if he'd put the link in a {url} tag, so it wouldn't be obvious from a glance at your browser's address bar what he was up to.

Great, now I'm part of the problem.


----------



## Twilight

*...*

lol, it wasnt bad or anything, jeeze lighten up, half of our stupid questions are worse than his joke


----------



## uberkitty

*Re: Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 12 point Times New Roman
> 1 inch margins
> white space between paragraphs
> reasonably sized titles (and an overall title in 20 point)
> ~450 words
> 
> *




Dang, and there I was patting myself on the back for getting my word count down to 700!

Yes, the core ethos sentence is a brain-buster.  IMO, so's the "What's unique?" question.  (Shouldn't I have addressed that in the last five answers?  You want a summary, or OTHER things that are unique?)  Still, I think that if you can't come up with whiz-bang answers for both, you probably shouldn't be submitting.


----------



## Orcus

I agree. Personally, I had the hardest time with the "what's unique". I didnt know how to play that right away. I didnt know whether I should product reference or not, etc.

I believe in the theory of primacy and recency. I tell all the younger attorneys to do their closing arguments using this principle. People remember what they hear first and last. So open strong and close strong. If you have 3 points, rank them in strength 1, 2, 3. Then present them 1, 3, 2 (or some advocate 2, 3, 1) so that you begin and end strong.

Why do I mention this?

Your strong open is your ethos sentence (primacy) and your strong close is your why is this different (recency). Those were the first and last read on your submission.

Clark


----------



## Altmann

*Argh !*

My turn to read the post 5 minutes too late.

1 submission per envelope ? I already sent one envelope with two submissions, each of them bundled in its own submission agreement, and with a common cover letter.

Do I have to resend (from Europe - about 2 euros per mail) ?

Be reading you,
 YA

Btw.,
 Actually, I found Olidammara's latest  message quite funny.


----------



## Altmann

*Re: Re: Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				uberkitty said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Dang, and there I was patting myself on the back for getting my word count down to 700!
> 
> *




Me 

* 565 words according to HeVeA+Html2Txt+wc / 572 according to wc alone (probably around 540 for human readers)
* 11 pt text and 20 pt title
* 1 inch margins
* 1.7li between paragraphs
* LaTeX-quality pagination



> *
> Yes, the core ethos sentence is a brain-buster.  IMO, so's the "What's unique?" question.  (Shouldn't I have addressed that in the last five answers?  You want a summary, or OTHER things that are unique?)  Still, I think that if you can't come up with whiz-bang answers for both, you probably shouldn't be submitting.
> *




Well, I put a summary of things I had not found any way of putting anywhere else (cosmogony, addition to rules, history, ...)

Be reading you,
 YA


----------



## kingpaul

*oops*

I was working on finally putting my thoughts into words last night.  I was quite happy with the notes I'd put together...until I realized that the setting I had described pretty much matched the Scarred Lands.  Hence, I threw it out.  Argh!  Back to the drawing board.


----------



## kingpaul

*OGC material*

Granted, this is more for 2nd and 3rd round submissions, but what is WotC's position on the inclusion of non-WotC rules...say from Sword & Sorcery Studios, Bastion, Atlas, FaNCC, etc. that are OGC?


----------



## Gez

*A4*

This would probably interest most Europeans: 

The A4 paper format is slightly bigger than its US equivalent ("legal" IIRC). Would submission on A4 be considered as a sort of cheating to the 1-page rule because of that ? I hope not, but I'm wary of potential nitpicking.

Also, do we have to send all three pages of the PDF, or only the last one with the name and signature ? I'm betting all three.


----------



## Gez

*Re: Re: Re: Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *Me
> 
> * 565 words according to HeVeA+Html2Txt+wc / 572 according to wc alone (probably around 540 for human readers)
> * 11 pt text and 20 pt title
> * 1 inch margins
> * 1.7li between paragraphs
> * LaTeX-quality pagination
> *




A fellow LaTeX user !


----------



## King_Stannis

*Re: OGC material*



			
				kingpaul said:
			
		

> *Granted, this is more for 2nd and 3rd round submissions, but what is WotC's position on the inclusion of non-WotC rules...say from Sword & Sorcery Studios, Bastion, Atlas, FaNCC, etc. that are OGC? *




if it was open content, i'm sure there probably wouldn't be a problem with the occasional 3rd party material. as long as it's not overarching. but i would like to hear wotc's position on this too.

by the way, always nice to see erie represent.


----------



## Ywain

If they're paying you $120 grand, I think that the baseline expectation is that you come up with all new stuff.

I mean, really.


----------



## King_Stannis

Ywain said:
			
		

> *If they're paying you $120 grand, I think that the baseline expectation is that you come up with all new stuff.
> 
> I mean, really. *




he did say it was more of a 2nd or 3rd round issue.


----------



## seasong

*Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				uberkitty said:
			
		

> *Dang, and there I was patting myself on the back for getting my word count down to 700! *




If I dropped the font size to 11 points, dropped the margins to 0.75 inches, maybe tightened the spacing a bit, I could probably get another 200 words in. I could certainly use those words, but I don't have to have them to get in the stuff I like best about the setting.

So I'm taking a gamble that the 450 words I have will be sufficient, and doing what I can to make it as readable as possible. And it is a gamble - those 200 words may give the judges more of a feeling of my meaty, juicy world.

So don't feel too bad about 700 words. Use exactly as many words as you need, and not one more.


----------



## Altmann

*Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> So I'm taking a gamble that the 450 words I have will be sufficient, and doing what I can to make it as readable as possible. And it is a gamble.
> 
> *




Yep, I did the same thing. 
There were many things I couldn't possibly have explained and I didn't even try. I just hinted at their existence under  "What's New ?".

Result : another submission I sent mostly for fun - a fantasy adaptation of a futuristic campaign world I designed some time ago - was only 380 words heavy.


----------



## Altmann

*Bottom line*

This might not be the right thread to post this, but what do you think will happen afterwards ?

Let's bet on 5000 submissions, 4000 of them distinct and worth something, and 10 selections.

Mmmhhhh... I foretell 4997 fantasy worlds submitted to other d20 publishers, most of these trashed without second thought.

And then ?

I bet on 3000 rpg sites florishing, many of them loaded with good ideas, but drowned in the number and lost for the gaming community. 

On the other hand, with some help, I suppose that teams working on similar ideas could join forces into producing high-end fan/publishable worlds.

Anybody willing to organize this ?

Be reading you,
 YA

P.S. : Thanks for the idea, Wizards. I found it funny to write Trailers for my ongoing campaign worlds. I hope this will be done again.


----------



## CrimsonHawk

Does anyone here know if there's an /ignore function on this message board or something?

The reason I'm asking is that someone I apologized to on this thread a few days ago apparently has implemented it on me, so I'm sure the function exists.

=====O
Dale W. Robbins


----------



## Altmann

Yep
Profile :  Add CrimsonHawk to Your Ignore List  
(bottom of the page, right column)


----------



## SteveMND

> Granted, this is more for 2nd and 3rd round submissions, but what is WotC's position on the inclusion of non-WotC rules...say from Sword & Sorcery Studios, Bastion, Atlas, FaNCC, etc. that are OGC?"



Actually, I'm not seeing where there needs to be a single iota of game mechanics in _any_ of the submissions -- even the 100-page bible.

This is a new _setting_ search, folks, not necessarily a new D&D world or even a new RPG gaming world.  For all we know, it may end up being the basis for just a few novels, or for a CCG or board game instead, or an RPG, or any or all of the above.  They are looking for _ideas_ and _concepts_, not mechanics and numbers.

Steve M


----------



## CrimsonHawk

Yike!

I thought I was being immaturely sarcastic with my statement, Altmann!  Thanks for pointing that out to me.  

Well, then.  Now that I know it exists, I can use it to help me handle my inabilities in a mature manner.

Thank you, Altmann!

=====O
Dale W. Robbins


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: Bottom line*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *This might not be the right thread to post this, but what do you think will happen afterwards ?*




If you win you'll make the local news. Maybe a TV appearance or a spot in the WotC booth at GenCon!

With the right agent you could parlay the exposure into an acting, directing and singing career, at least a guest spot or two. Maybe even a ride on the space shuttle! 

Probably you'll at least make the local news.


----------



## seasong

*Re: Bottom line*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *On the other hand, with some help, I suppose that teams working on similar ideas could join forces into producing high-end fan/publishable worlds.*




Open Source Settings?


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: Argh !*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *My turn to read the post 5 minutes too late.
> 
> 1 submission per envelope ? I already sent one envelope with two submissions, each of them bundled in its own submission agreement, and with a common cover letter.
> 
> Do I have to resend (from Europe - about 2 euros per mail) ?
> 
> Be reading you,
> YA
> 
> Btw.,
> Actually, I found Olidammara's latest  message quite funny. *



This is fine as long as each submission has its own agreement form.

AV


----------



## Zulkir

*Re: A4*



			
				Gez said:
			
		

> *This would probably interest most Europeans:
> 
> The A4 paper format is slightly bigger than its US equivalent ("legal" IIRC). Would submission on A4 be considered as a sort of cheating to the 1-page rule because of that ? I hope not, but I'm wary of potential nitpicking.
> 
> Also, do we have to send all three pages of the PDF, or only the last one with the name and signature ? I'm betting all three. *




We would accept the A4 and you are betting correctly all three must be sent.

AV


----------



## Greybar

[watches for the mad scramble as Americans hit their local office products store for A4 paper, heroically panting: "must ... get ... extra ... 3/4 inch!"


----------



## Weeble

Greybar said:
			
		

> *[watches for the mad scramble as Americans hit their local office products store for A4 paper, heroically panting: "must ... get ... extra ... 3/4 inch!" *




reading this post as an American and not caring....


----------



## Suzerain

*Re: Bottom line*

"This might not be the right thread to post this, but what do you think will happen afterwards ?"

Still, though, this is probably the best question I've seen posted here.  The overall effect of such a bold, wonderful, and long-reaching job opportunity will undoubtedly throw some fire back towards the fantasy fan-base who would like to create their own fantasy worlds for use not only with gaming, but with developing a product chronology which includes epic tales and other marketable ideas.

The answer to the question is, "It's up to you." Think big.  This is your opportunity, no matter what, to take a serious look at developing your world one way or another.  There certainly may not be any profit in this (at first), and you may determine that bringing a team together will suit your needs.  

"On the other hand, with some help, I suppose that teams working on similar ideas could join forces into producing high-end fan/publishable worlds."

"Anybody willing to organize this ?"

Children of the Grave Press always has and always will accept product proposals of any kind.  However, what you're talking about sounds far reaching.  Would we support it? Yes.  Will we continue to offer opportunities to work on campaign settings? Yes.  Can we organize this effectively? No.  Or at least, probably not at this point in time.  Developing a campaign setting is tough, tough work when you're determined to make it "just right." 

The question for me and my crew would be "how many worlds can we really devour all at once?" 

However, if you approached me with your loyal team of development elves and stated you'd like to set your own goals (and deadlines) and develop the product(s) to the best of your abilities, I would do my darndest to help you make them as good as possible by finding help for your interesting ideas.

Thinking big may be the first step, but putting what it takes into even one product may be the hardest thing to accomplish effectively.  We're still working hard on this one goal, and I have all the appreciation and respect in the world for designers who triumph over adversity to make it happen and continually do!

Overall, I think the long-term effect of this initiative will spell goodness for Fantasy Absorbing Nocturnals everywhere! 

Good Spelunking!

Robert J. Romano
Editor-in-Chief
Children of the Grave Press


----------



## Kilmore

I know that there are a lot of D20 publishers are here keeping an eager eye on things.  After WoTC takes their pick, how many are going to be looking at snapping up worlds that don't make the cut?

Also, since WoTC will be buying rights to the second and third place settings, is it same to assume that there will be at least a little bit of product released for those settings?


----------



## mythusmage

I should hope they do something with the other two settings. Maybe go into electronic publishing and set up subscription sites for them. At the least offer PDFs of setting material.

Where the 'losers' are concerned, I suspect the vast majority will go quietly into that good night. (Let us hope so.). Some few will head off to third party publishers, others will be the first product of a new company, and the rest will get self-published on the web.

There will also be something of a brouhaha as folks discuss Wizards' decision to go with one setting and not another, with partisans on all sides extoling the virtues of one over another. You can expect some folks to accuse Wizards of favoritism, cheating, and/or stacking the deck.

Wizards has certainly opened up a can of worms here.


----------



## Talaysen

I believe AV has stated that WotC will confirm the identities of semi-finalists who don't make it into the top three, at least if said people want their identities confirmed - and I would imagine that a handful of companies, at least, will be very interested in the seven "losers". As for the remaining entries? Most will probably fade into obscurity; a few might see public release; a small number of those might find success. As always, the best will rise to the top, and the rest will go away sooner or later.


----------



## Oxidor Trucidel

*Re: Re: Good morning*



			
				Monte At Home said:
			
		

> *
> I'm predicting you'll get around 5,000 submissions.
> Even if 4,000 of them are crap, that's a lot to get through in just over a week.
> The danger to applicants is that if the judges have to move through submissions that fast, this becomes more like a lottery than a round of submissions. So I hope I'm wrong. *




There is a simple solution... ask a ten-pages submissions to each of the 1.000 non-craps.


----------



## Oxidor Trucidel

Ywain said:
			
		

> This is why spelling and grammar are very important.  If they have 90 seconds to make the first read-through (weeding stage) I'm sure the entry will go in the round file at the first sight of a typo or verb disagreement.  If you've already typed up your submission and were planning on sending it out tomorrow, don't.  Take the weekend to re-read it forwards and backwards and to get friends, family and strangers to proof-read it.
> [/B]



It's harder for frenchspeakers... I have no english friend to correct my text and I must send it before 21...


----------



## Rasyr

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *There will also be something of a brouhaha as folks discuss Wizards' decision to go with one setting and not another, with partisans on all sides extoling the virtues of one over another. You can expect some folks to accuse Wizards of favoritism, cheating, and/or stacking the deck.
> 
> Wizards has certainly opened up a can of worms here. *




Well, it is their can to open.....  

Seriously, You will always  have sore losers...

From what Anthony has said regarding this, I would expect that the panel does not know the names of any of the contestants until the final selection. Impossible you say? Not all that difficult really.

If they keep the panel "blind" until after they select the winning 100 page bible, then there is no way that favortism or cheating can be substantiated (of course there will still be accusations).

All that is required to keep the panel blind throughout the entire contest is to have the admin who is handling the current round of submissions do the same thing for each successive round. In addition she can also handle all communications with the semi-finalists, and finalists. (plus the confirmations to other companies).
(Note: in the next rounds it isn't as important that the panelists not know the names of those selected as it is that they not know which name is attached to which entry).

Not only will this keep the panel in its "blind" status, but it will also give the panelists themselves a slightly lighter burden in the long run, allowing them to concentrate more on judging the submissions for quality than on other concerns.

At least this is my opinion....


----------



## Spike Y Jones

*Word Count*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If I dropped the font size to 11 points, dropped the margins to 0.75 inches, maybe tightened the spacing a bit, I could probably get another 200 words in. I could certainly use those words, but I don't have to have them to get in the stuff I like best about the setting.
> 
> So I'm taking a gamble that the 450 words I have will be sufficient, and doing what I can to make it as readable as possible. And it is a gamble - those 200 words may give the judges more of a feeling of my meaty, juicy world.
> *




I'm willing to bet that none of the 10 winners will be in the "overstuffed" category of submissions.

Spike Y Jones


----------



## GuardianLurker

*About the cover letter*

To those of you who are in the industry :

I've been thinking of adding an "inspirations" paragraph to the cover letter. 

I know the cover letter won't be read until late in the process by the panelists (at _best_ it will act as a secondary filter), and I'd add it to the submission form, but there isn't really a good place for it, and it seems like it would ruin the template.

Would having a paragraph like the following example help/be welcomed?



> Inspiration for this proposal came from Christopher Stasheff’s Her Majesty’s Wizard, Katherine Kurtz and Deborah Turner's Adept series,  and the Indiana Jones movie trilogy.




Or is it a neutral thing?


----------



## mirzabah

*Re: About the cover letter*



			
				GuardianLurker said:
			
		

> *I've been thinking of adding an "inspirations" paragraph to the cover letter.*



I doubt it would help and it could easily be read as follows:







> This proposal is completely unoriginal being freely stolen from Christopher Stasheff’s Her Majesty’s Wizard, Katherine Kurtz and Deborah Turner's Adept series, and the Indiana Jones movie trilogy. Anyone publishing this material will be taking a waltz through a litigation minefield, and if they survive that, they still must face the opprobium of the market which was anticipating something a little less derivative.



I'm not saying that any of this applies to your proposal, so don't get your knickers in a twist; I'm just painting a worst case scenario for you


----------



## jester47

Orcus said:
			
		

> *I agree. Personally, I had the hardest time with the "what's unique". I didnt know how to play that right away. I didnt know whether I should product reference or not, etc.
> 
> I believe in the theory of primacy and recency. I tell all the younger attorneys to do their closing arguments using this principle. People remember what they hear first and last. So open strong and close strong. If you have 3 points, rank them in strength 1, 2, 3. Then present them 1, 3, 2 (or some advocate 2, 3, 1) so that you begin and end strong.
> 
> Why do I mention this?
> 
> Your strong open is your ethos sentence (primacy) and your strong close is your why is this different (recency). Those were the first and last read on your submission.
> 
> Clark *[/QUOTE
> 
> I find the core ethos to be the clockwork in the world.  What makes it go round and be a good place to have adventures.   But then again I found the core ethos for FR, so I know what one looks like.  Think clockwork gears and bolts.  The whats different, in my mind is what sets it apart from others.  So where does your core ethoes work differntly than usual.
> 
> Aaron.
> 
> Aaron.


----------



## EarthsShadow

*font size*

There is nothing in the submission requirements about a font size for the proposal at all.  If they had wanted it to be font size 12 and title size 20 then it should have been in there from the beginning.  I typed mine in font size 10 because I read all the roleplaying game books and most of them are in a size smaller than that so I felt that it would be fine.  I think that it would be a sham if they suddenly came out and said that it would have to be font size 12 because there are many people other than me that typed it in smaller font size because perhaps to get the feel of the setting across the size would have to be smaller than 12.  

All I know is that I tried typing mine at size 12 and it looked like crap and I couldn't get the feel for my world in at that size so I lowered the size and got the feeling for the world the way it should be.  I just don't want my entrant to be disqualified because of that.  I might not win, I might not make it to round two, but at least I want the people at WOTC to read what I sent in regardless of the font size.  

That's all.  And I am sure I am not alone on this.


----------



## Deken

*Urgh.*

So do we need one idea per envelope or not?  I'm sending in four ideas .  They all have their own submission agreement and cover letter.  All four ideas are stapled to their cover letter and submission agreement, with the submission agreement coming before the idea.  The ideas aren't stapled together.  I haven't sent it in yet.  Is it preferable to send them all in their own envelope, or does it really matter?

I'm sending my proposals in large 10x13 envelopes, if that helps.


----------



## Orcus

> After WoTC takes their pick, how many are going to be looking at snapping up worlds that don't make the cut?




I know I am NOT looking. There isnt much to publish from a 10 page setting description. Publishing a whole world is a huge undertaking. Hardly worth the time for many (not all, many) d20 publishers. It would take probably 2 years to get a 10 page setting description to a setting bible and then to a published product. Unless you just wanted to do a 32 page gazatteer type product. But I dont see that as very useful unless there is a lot of expansion material. Just my two cents!

Clark


----------



## Christian

*Re: Re: cookies? margins?*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *If I dropped the font size to 11 points, dropped the margins to 0.75 inches, maybe tightened the spacing a bit, I could probably get another 200 words in. I could certainly use those words, but I don't have to have them to get in the stuff I like best about the setting.
> 
> So I'm taking a gamble that the 450 words I have will be sufficient, and doing what I can to make it as readable as possible. And it is a gamble - those 200 words may give the judges more of a feeling of my meaty, juicy world.
> 
> So don't feel too bad about 700 words. Use exactly as many words as you need, and not one more. *




Probably about right. I finally finished my first draft (whew-a week left to edit!). I'm using 12-point bolded headers, 11-point body, 2 cm (~.8 inch)  margins, and it runs ~750 words. And goes about 2 lines onto page 2.  But I'm hoping to cut at least a hundred words from that-it feels 'fat' as it is ...

(I don't know whether to sneer, laugh, or cry at the people who have already sent in a dozen entries. Maybe they don't have jobs ... I must have spent at least three hours on the 'core ethos' sentence alone. I think that one sentence at the top of the page has _got_ to be the eye-catching, punch-in-the-gut diamond of the whole thing ...)

(Hey-if I can't find enough stuff to cut, I could run out & get some of that 'A4' paper the Europeans keep talking about!  )


----------



## Darraketh

I opened the "doc" file that was distributed. On the "Fantasy Setting Proposal Template" I deleted the word "Template" and everything in *[brackets]*. The font was already set at _14pt, Times New Roman_ so I went with that. 

I typed my responses and put my name in the footer. Done!

206 words!

I distilled the setting down to its central, overriding theme.


----------



## Weeble

568 words


----------



## zilch

Done, 464 words


----------



## uberkitty

*word count, grammar site*

My original proposal (a collaboration, but I have the writing job) is still running over 700 words--possibly a case of too many cooks spoiling the brevity.  My new proposal, not a collaboration, will probably come in under 500.

For those who have expressed some grammar panic, you might want to take a look at this site:

Jack Lynch's Grammar & Style Guide

If you're truly concerned about the quality of your writing, you may want to partner up with someone whose writing skills are honed.  From everything I've read, it seems that this is first and foremost a writing contest, not an idea contest.  If you've never been told you write well, if you've never seriously considered writing professionally, if the sentence 

"There swords were laying near it's cave." 

looks ok to you, then you really should consider hiring an editor or going halves with a talented writer you know.

Just my two cents.


----------



## Ghostwind

716 words, but that count may drop as I continue to play with it...


----------



## GoldenEagle

I have seen a couple of people reference the FR core ethos statement.  Is it TOP SECRET or can you post it so that the non-industry types (ME) can see what one looks like?  I have seen what others have said they might be, but it would be nice to see one that was selected for publishing.

Hope this didn't sound ignorant...

John


----------



## Parcher

It's fine to put all your proposals in the same envelope, provided each is accompanied by its own submission letter.

On the question of font size, we don't have any specific requirements, but, as has been said before, we recommend using your best judgment. A small font size (e.g., 6 pt. type) is less likely to be thoroughly read than a larger size. I strongly recommend cutting your proposals to the absolute minimum number of words necessary to convey your ideas. 

One of the benefits of this search has been the outpouring of creative ideas from fans and from industry professionals. I certainly hope this creative energy continues well beyond the point at which we make our final selection, and that the best of the various proposals that have been developed make it onto the pages of the myriad of D20 companies out there. In my opinion, this search represents a tremendous opportunity for the industry as a whole to tap into the great settings that many of you have developed over the years.


----------



## EarthsShadow

What about the cover letter?  Does the cover letter have to be totally professional or is it just something that you want our contact information on and that's it?

Just curious.


----------



## Darraketh

EarthsShadow said:
			
		

> *What about the cover letter?  Does the cover letter have to be totally professional or is it just something that you want our contact information on and that's it?
> 
> Just curious. *




The way I understand it, contact information is all that they have requested be on the cover sheet.

Name
Address
City, State ZIP

Phone Number(s) were they can reach you. Best time to call.

E-mail Address

And yes, I would make the cover letter professional. They _are_ talking about $120,000 job. 

At $30,000 a year, that would be four years salary!

I can hardly wait to spend it! lol


----------



## 2WS-Steve

It's probably not worth while to worry much about the cover letter; they'll already make up their mind from the idea submission so unless your cover letter frightens them it won't figure in whether or not you're selected.

P.S. 274 on the word count; w00+!!


----------



## Ghostwind

> *P.S. 274 on the word count; w00+!! *




Okay, I'm frightened.  I know how good this guy is and if he can do it in less than 300 words then all I have to say is ""Be afraid... Be very afraid..."


----------



## tsadkiel

2WS-Steve said:
			
		

> *P.S. 274 on the word count; w00+!! *




w00+ indeed.  I feel all bloated with 448 now.


----------



## Undead Pete

Hmmmm.... I sent mine in a couple days ago.  

Since I saw some of you posting your word counts, I went back and checked mine.  I was aghast to see that it was 836 (including headings and whatnot).  

However, it was in 12 point (Abadi Condensed), and didn't look bloated in the least.

Some of the competition looks extremely intimidating...and some looks laughable.  

All in all, I feel the same about my chances: unlikely, but not impossible.


----------



## Darraketh

I had 206 words but I only counted words I wrote. I didn't count my name, title or any of the questions. Just words I wrote.


----------



## mythusmage

*Alan Kellogg's One Sentence Setting Proposal Which Covers Everything You Need to Know About the Setting.*

You kill people and it's legal.

(Six words. Who'll be the first to beat that?)


----------



## Ghostwind

> *You kill people and it's legal. (Six words. Who'll be the first to beat that?) *




Heroes slay monsters.  (Top that one!)


----------



## mirzabah

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *Heroes slay monsters.  (Top that one!)*



Kill!


----------



## Zappo

Darraketh said:
			
		

> *I had 206 words but I only counted words I wrote. I didn't count my name, title or any of the questions. Just words I wrote. *



_206?_  I've got more than 700, with a 12 point font, paragraph breaks, and decent margins. I mean, are you writing in 20 point font or what? Now I'm frightened!


----------



## Christian

Zappo, I wouldn't worry about the 'word-count wars' too much. Brevity will obviously be an advantage of sorts, but mainly at the high end. How many words needed to convey the setting is a function of the setting itself, and there are likely good ones that need a bit more explanation.

That said, you're probably near the upper edge of the target range where you are. My entry, like yours, comes in at well over 700 words, and (painful as it will be) I'm hoping to cut it down to around 600. It will look better on the page, be easier to read, and thus have a better chance of failing to scare the judges.  I have no plans to try to match the 200-300 word entries some people are churning out. That may be sufficient to describe the core of their setting, but I don't think it'll work for mine ...


----------



## Rasyr

The same goes for my setting. It weighs in (not counting the title across the top or the header on each section) at just under 700 words. But then again, my setting is likely to be a little more complex than others as well, as there are some features of it that make it extremely dynamic, and therefore more interesting in my opinion.

The key points are that it is concise, that it is interesting, and that it can be easily read. I think that originality and uniqueness are also going to be factors in this, which mine has in plenty.

So, don't worry about the word counts. Just do the best that you can, and hope for the best.

Personally, I think that my chances are better than average, but then again there will ba lot of submissions that are better than average.  

Some people have made comments about being worried about the like of Monte Cook and Skip Williams entering, but for myself I am not worried. Just remember that these guy are the ones who developed the *rules* not settings, so their chances become just the same as ours.

On the other hand, folks like Clark Peterson are ones to worry about, but again not too much so. I have heard folks say how they are going to flood Wotc with submissions. My opinion on this is that their first idea *might* be somewhat decent, but that as they write more proposals, the quality will drop or they will just be rehashing different aspects of the same setting. Overall, most of them being inferior to the rest.

Now there is also the chance that somebody else will submit an idea that is close, or nearly identical to yours as well, and for those with smaller word counts, this increases that chance, as I think it would be difficult to have much that is unique within that framework.

I have have made two submissions myself, and I will freely admit that my first proposal was somewhat crappy. Oh it had plenty of good ideas, but I did not clearly lable my sections (only an extra line between the sections), and it was not very focused. So I went and rewrote it, focusing more on certain aspects, including section headers, and being much more frugal with my word-smithing, and it still came near 700 words. I am happy with it.

Just do the best you can, and be happy with it like I am with mine. The word count doesn't matter, it is the ideas behind it all that they are wanting to see. If you even make it the panel, then that shows that you can follow the simple directions, which is another reason for this first round.

Good Luck to you all (even though I know you are not wishing the same to me ).


----------



## Darraketh

Zappo said:
			
		

> *206?  I've got more than 700, with a 12 point font, paragraph breaks, and decent margins. I mean, are you writing in 20 point font or what? Now I'm frightened! *




It wasn't difficult. OK, it was initially. Eventually I came to the conclusion that most of _any_ setting is just filler. Ho hum another secret society or bad boy god. Blah, blah, blah...

In the end, any of that _could_ be cut from the setting and hence from the proposal as well. I had to determine what was really driving the secret societies, the gods, the heroes etc.? What was the drama, the universal overiding conflict? What was headline newsworthy about my setting?

It was always there. But once I figured out what the *central theme* was it became a matter of defining _it_ as opposed to the entire setting.

Pehaps this is the wrong approach but it is what I am going with.


----------



## Darraketh

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *Personally, I think that my chances are better than average, but then again there will ba lot of submissions that are better than average.  *




About half.


----------



## Rasyr

Darraketh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> About half.  *




Actually, I think it will be less than that, though not by much.

Lets just take a guess at some numbers here. Random guessing.. 

Say that WoTC gets about 100 submissions (as a sampling of the overall received.)

Out of these, about 10 will hit the roundfile immediately for not following directions. (font too tiny, altering the submission form, more than a single page, etc...)

I would hazard a guess that out of the 90 remaining, which does make it to the panel, about  25 of them will be eliminated for being extremely poorly written (which my first submission would likely fall into this group). Entries with no focus, or no real theme to them. (lousy first sentence). This leaves us with 65.

Out of these 65, about ten or so will be obvious rip-offs of other fantasy (or converted sci-fi) settings, and off they go to file 13.

This now leaves us with 55. Of these, another 10 will be obvious clones of the current settings with just the serial numbers filed off and the names changed (to protect the guilty, in this case). Of to the wonderful land of recycling for these guys as well.

Now we are down to 45 submissions. Another ten will not have anything unique enough about them to make them stand out from the crowd, mostly being a standard generic setting... Say bye-bye to them.

We are down to 35 entries out of 100 now. Another 10 of these will be dropped because the panel does not like something about the setting for one reason or another. Natural selection... leaving us with 25 out of the original 100.

This is where things start to get interesting. Out of these, the panel will be looking for a setting that can be used  for not only rpgs, but for books, minis, TCGs and other product lines. This will cut another 15 easily, as while some may be unique, and interesting, they will be unsuited for one or another of these lines for one reason or another (and I will bet that a lot of people forgot to take this into account as well).

This leaves us with 10 entries out of the original 100. My second entry would fall into this group. Thus my reasoning that I have a slightly better than average chance. I did take into account the possibilities for other product lines (with more focus on books, and rpgs, though there is ample room for minis and TCGs as well without any trouble.

So, I would hazard a guess, that I have a 1 in 10 chance of being selected as one of the top ten. And that, I am happy with. I would be happier if mine was one of the ones selected, but I know that those selected will be as good or better than mine, so the setting finally chosen is going to be one that really rocks!!

And no, this is not conceit, this is simple confidence in my work. I have been playing rpgs for close to a quarter century now, and when DMing, I have never failed to provide my players with unique and interesting settings. I am also well thought of by at least one other gaming company (the same one where Monte got his start - for the trivia hounds out there, do you know the answer?), and have been writing various things for a number of years now.

So once again, I dip into the well of lunacy and wish everybody good luck on their submissions......


----------



## uberkitty

Darraketh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> About half.  *




I think what Darraketh meant was that, by definition, if "average" is the (theoretical) exact middle, then half must be above and half below it.   

But I agree--I'm sure that in this case, "average" will mean a low enough standard that something must be well above average even to be considered.


----------



## am181d

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> This leaves us with 10 entries out of the original 100. My second entry would fall into this group... So, I would hazard a guess, that I have a 1 in 10 chance of being selected as one of the top ten. *




Your math, in addition to being arbitrary, is flawed.  Assuming 1 in 10 entries are good enough to make it to the second round, and yours is one of those entries, you would only have a 1 in 10 chance if 1,000 people entered the contest.  (100 out of 1,000 would then have good entries, all competing for 10 spots.)

I think we can expect more like 5,000 to 10,000 submissions (including the awful ones, like mine), which would give you a 1 in 50 or a 1 in 100 chance.  Still not awful.

(And I suspect that the percentage of quality applicants will be lower than you indicated, possibly increasing your chances.)


----------



## Zappo

1% chance of entering top 10 is about the same I figured. It's good enough for the prize I think. Entering the top 10 is already a prize in itself, because it proves that your work is worth publishing. If I managed the top 10 but not the top 3, I would know that I have a good concept that I can offer to another publisher.


----------



## rpghost

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I am also well thought of by at least one other gaming company (the same one where Monte got his start - for the trivia hounds out there, do you know the answer?)
> 
> *





Ironcrown 


IMHO, I think something that everyone fails to realise is that there will be an aweful lot of luck/chance/randomness in this because of the volume of entries and the need to get through them quickly. Even the best writing can be overlooked at random because the person was distracted for a moment or was looking forward to leaving as it was 4:55pm when he picked yours up or had to take a bathroom break right in the middle... It's impossible to accuratly grade that much work and only one pagers at that...

James
http://www.RPGHost.com


----------



## Darraketh

uberkitty said:
			
		

> *I think what Darraketh meant was that, by definition, if "average" is the (theoretical) exact middle, then half must be above and half below it*




Exactly! 



> _Originally posted by Zappo_
> *Entering the top 10 is already a prize in itself,...*




That's how I feel. 



> _Originally posted by Zappo_
> *...because it proves that your work is worth publishing.*




I disagree. 

What it proves is that you can write a one-pager worth considering.


----------



## Rasyr

rpghost gets the prize!

or in this case (to swipe a caveat from a well know comic company), the noprize!

In fact, (and I'll likely get flamed for saying this), but the latest version of D&D is more like the early versions of Rolemaster than ever before.  Of course there are differences, but having played both systems, it is easy to see where some of the changes had their first roots....

Also, you are right that luck will play a major part in it...

As to the numbers I was spouting. Think about it. I was actually saying, that out of however many submissions there are, only ten percent are actually going to be in the running for one of the top ten slots, and making it into the next round. Thus, I was saying my submission is good enough to be considered part of that 10%.


----------



## Fast Learner

*Largely OT, on average*

OT: (Quick statistics lesson: *Average*, or "mean," isn't the middle at all. *Median* is the middle, and about half will be above median. 

To determine the average you would need to, for example, give them all ratings of 1 to 10. If there are 5,000 total entries and, say, 4,000 of them are rated a 1 while the others are spread out evenly over the 2-10 range, again for example, then the average will be a rating of 2, yet 80% of them will be below average. 

While I'm certain there won't be 80% that rate as poorly as a 1, the general concept still stands -- many fewer than half will likely be above average.)


----------



## uberkitty

*why?*

I'm not sure if this is the kind of question that's going to get answered by Wizards officials, but maybe the thread could hazard a guess: 

Why was the topic of heroes broken into two questions (who are they; what do they do), but the topic of villains wasn't?  I'm asking mostly because a knotty thing for me as I rewrite is figuring out how _who someone is_ is fundamentally different from _what someone does_--and why the authors of the template seem to see the difference as more relevant to heroism than villainy.  Is it just because we as players/readers tend to spend more time with heroes than villains?

(I'm totally aware, by the way, that I'm overanalyzing--I don't think that having an "answer" to this question is going to make a huge difference to my success or failure--I'm just kinda interested in kicking it around.)


<EDIT>

Fast Learner: I knew as soon as I posted about "average" that someone was going to explain the difference between average and mean, and make me look dumb!


----------



## Zappo

Darraketh said:
			
		

> *I disagree.
> 
> What it proves is that you can write a one-pager worth considering. *



Oky, oky. I rephrase: it means that you have an _idea_ that a good writer can turn into something worth publishing. Because I think I can safely assume that WotC will cut down everything that doesn't have a sellable concept at its core, no matter how well it's written.


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: why?*



> *Is it just because we as players/readers tend to spend more time with heroes than villains?*




Wotc (and most other publishers) consider the role of hero to be vastly more important that villain in terms of who gamers play.  Nearly every published adventure inserts the characters into the role of some kind of hero pitted against tough odds and possibly destined for greatness.  While sourcebooks for evil campaigns and players have been written, there is a significant percentage of gamers that prefer the valiant hero over playing a villain on a consistent basis and that is where the predominant marketing goes towards.  

If you look at Dragonlance, for example, the entire story concept is hero driven from the start.  Even aspects of Forgotten Realms is strong in the hero department (such as Drizzt and company, Elminster, and the Harpers to name a few).  So I believe that Wotc is probably looking for a campaign world that can be hero driven in order to diverse the marketing possibilities into the options they talk about in their proposal guidelines.


----------



## Suzerain

rpghost said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's impossible to accuratly grade that much work and only one pagers at that...
> 
> *




How about a vote of confidence?

I say they can and will get it done.

Robert


----------



## Weeble

Suzerain said:
			
		

> *
> 
> How about a vote of confidence?
> 
> I say they can and will get it done.
> 
> Robert *




I second that


----------



## jester47

Mine is about 600 words 12point font, 1 space between paragraphs, one space between last paragraph and my name.  Margins are 1 2/8s of an inch.   Revised after sending I can get @ 700 words with 11 point font and 1 inch margins.   

Aaron.


----------



## Jolly Giant

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> I already have the 100 pages.  But since most of them have been publically available on my site ... am I able to enter?



This is why I've not yet put any of _my_ material on the web!
Sorry, was I being a gloating SoB just now?


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: Largely OT, on average*



			
				Fast Learner said:
			
		

> *OT: (Quick statistics lesson: Average, or "mean," isn't the middle at all. Median is the middle, and about half will be above median.
> *




LOL You're correct!


----------



## JoeCrow

GoldenEagle said:
			
		

> *I have seen a couple of people reference the FR core ethos statement.  Is it TOP SECRET or can you post it so that the non-industry types (ME) can see what one looks like?  I have seen what others have said they might be, but it would be nice to see one that was selected for publishing.
> *




Well, near as I can tell, the only person who's found it is Aaron/jester47, and he's keeping it a secret. Why? Coz like the thief said to the paladin after hamstringing him, "I don't have to run faster than the dragon, I just have to run faster than *you*."

He sez he'll show it to everybody after the deadline for submissions passes. Helpful, ain't he?


----------



## Fast Learner

*Re: Largely OT, on average*

Last OT, I promise: (Yeah, that's why I have an _above-average_, but not an _above-median_ number of arms. Think about it.  )


----------



## Irysangel

*Silly question!*

Hi everyone,

First time poster, somewhat longtime lurker (I know, I know).  I have a bit of a silly question, and was wondering what others thought of this.

I work in a business where we frequently send packages out via regular mail, and I know the frequency in which packages DO get lost by the post office, or misplaced for weeks at a time, or simply 'returned to sender' because of a lazy postal worker (no offense to any postal-people out there, of course).  

I was going to send my submission fed-ex or certified mail for peace of mind, but the address is a post office box.  Only I'd hate to tear myself apart wondering if my submission ever got there....

Long story short, would it be permissable to send in a duplicate copy as long as it is clearly labelled as a duplicate? I know the rule addendum was that one entry per idea, but it's not exactly the same.  Moreso along the lines of just insurance that my submission actually gets there.  

Or would this make too much work for "Julie"?

Thoughts? Comments?  Any advice would be appreciated.  I know this is a bit O.C.D. of me, but I can't help it. 

Irysangel


----------



## Archimedes

*FR Core Ethos Statement*



			
				JoeCrow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, near as I can tell, the only person who's found it is Aaron/jester47, and he's keeping it a secret. Why? Coz like the thief said to the paladin after hamstringing him, "I don't have to run faster than the dragon, I just have to run faster than *you*."
> 
> He sez he'll show it to everybody after the deadline for submissions passes. Helpful, ain't he?
> *




I just can't resist.  

"Welcome to the world of Faerun, a place of great heroes and stark evil, encompassing lands of magic, mystery, and high peril."

That's from the first line of page 5 in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.


Sam


----------



## Paka

*Scorpion Clan Motto*

"While you sleep your enemy is practicing."


----------



## dema

*My god*

1 Page

1,231 words.

13 Paragraphs.

Themes galore.

Scary.

 


Advice anyone?  I might send in two.  One bare bones, and the other meaty.

Goodluck all.
-dem

www.mp3.com/unitone


----------



## Altmann

*Re: My god*



			
				dema said:
			
		

> *1 Page
> 
> 1,231 words.
> 
> 13 Paragraphs.
> 
> Themes galore.
> *




Cut to the bone. Remove everything that the readers will find in more than five submissions. Don't write, say, that adventurers are warriors and clerics. Don't give the details on their amibitions if these ambitions are the usual ones. 

If that's not enough, remove explanations and put mysterious-looking names for themes you have no space left to explore.

If that's still not enough, well, you can always try and send it to someone (on this group or anywhere) and ask for help.

Be reading you,
 YA


----------



## Mercere

Mine's out -- 706 words, 12 pt. font, 3/4 inch margins.  6 numbered paragraphs, one per question, line skipped in between.

What amazed me about this contest is what a great marketing campaign it is for Wizards, regardless of the world that results.  I know its prompted me to go out and finally buy a copy of third edition, and certainly a copy of the final results of this contest (which, with the $120,000 in prize money, I'll easily be able to afford!  )

I do want to thank everyone on this list for putting this contest in perspective, I do think I have a better entry because of it.  I still wish I could see what some of the other profession entries look like.

A request for Wizards: would it be possible for you to contact
some of the "runners up" (i.e., 11th - 15th place) and ask them if it would be okay to place their entries on your web site?  I bet many people would be happy to do this just for the fame involved, and the rest of us would love to know what some of the entries you thought of as good looked like.

Thanks!

Mercere


----------



## kingpaul

*word count*

Hmmm....just had Word count mine, and its 322, and that's including the questions and title.  Of course, I still have some friends butchering it for me to ready my final draft.


----------



## Tallow

*Word Count*

You know, I'm not sure how the heck some of you are condensing this submission into 200 to 400 word submissions, and still maintain a unique world with a decent level of complexity.

Complexity, in my mind, is what's needed to include the novels, CCG's, Miniatures, as well as a campaign setting.  I guess I'm not understanding how you can possibly portray the complexity I feel is needed in one or two simple sentences per question.

Well anyways... that's my two cents.  I have a feeling that the winners are going to be between 500 and 700 word count.

Andy Christian


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: Word Count*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *You know, I'm not sure how the heck some of you are condensing this submission into 200 to 400 word submissions, and still maintain a unique world with a decent level of complexity.
> 
> Complexity, in my mind, is what's needed to include the novels, CCG's, Miniatures, as well as a campaign setting.  I guess I'm not understanding how you can possibly portray the complexity I feel is needed in one or two simple sentences per question.*



Well, I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing with my world...at least not until I find out I'm not in the running.  However, I believe I've distilled the world down to its bare bones and still maintain its uniqueness.


----------



## Undead Pete

*Re: My god*



			
				dema said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 1,231 words.
> 
> 13 Paragraphs.
> 
> Themes galore.
> 
> Scary.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Advice anyone?  I might send in two.  One bare bones, and the other meaty.
> 
> Goodluck all.
> -dem
> 
> www.mp3.com/unitone *




1231 words!!!  Sheesh, what size font are you using?  8?  9, maybe? Here's a suggestion....send a magnifying glass with it.


----------



## Undead Pete

*Re: Re: Word Count*



			
				kingpaul said:
			
		

> *
> Well, I'm not going to tell you what I'm doing with my world...at least not until I find out I'm not in the running.  However, I believe I've distilled the world down to its bare bones and still maintain its uniqueness. *




Let me guess...
a)you're writing it in binary
b)you've eliminated all vowels to reflect the unique language you've created for your world
c)you've attached a nice expensive little present for "Judy" (Julie???), the real brains behind the contest.


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: Re: Re: Word Count*



> *c)you've attached a nice expensive little present for "Judy" (Julie???), the real brains behind the contest. *




Dang!  I knew I was forgetting something really important...


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: Re: Re: Word Count*



			
				Undead Pete said:
			
		

> *Let me guess...
> a)you're writing it in binary
> b)you've eliminated all vowels to reflect the unique language you've created for your world
> c)you've attached a nice expensive little present for "Judy" (Julie???), the real brains behind the contest.
> 
> *



ARGH!!!  My plans have been uncovered.  Must go back and hatch new diabolical plan to get into the final round. 

I've got it, torch their postal facility, but hand-deliver my entry!


----------



## King_Stannis

mine is 804 words at 10.5 font. it's meaty, but is very readable. that count includes labelling the different sections.


----------



## jester47

*Re: Silly question!*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *
> Long story short, would it be permissable to send in a duplicate copy as long as it is clearly labelled as a duplicate? I know the rule addendum was that one entry per idea, but it's not exactly the same.  Moreso along the lines of just insurance that my submission actually gets there.
> 
> Or would this make too much work for "Julie"?
> 
> Thoughts? Comments?  Any advice would be appreciated.  I know this is a bit O.C.D. of me, but I can't help it.
> 
> Irysangel *




One thing you can do that I do when i send in a submission to anyone is to include a postcard stamped and with your adress on it.  On it write for the person handling the package to drop it into the mail.  When the postcard arrives at your house, you can be pretty sure that your submission made it.

Aaron.


----------



## jester47

*Re: FR Core Ethos Statement*



			
				Archimedes said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I just can't resist.
> 
> "Welcome to the world of Faerun, a place of great heroes and stark evil, encompassing lands of magic, mystery, and high peril."
> 
> That's from the first line of page 5 in the Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting.
> 
> 
> Sam *




If this was a game of Battleship you would have come very close to my battleship.   However that is not the core ethos of Forgotten Realms.  Here is why:

"Welcome to Middle Earth, a place of great heroes and stark evil, encompasing lands of magic, mystery, and high peril."

Archimedes is close but he still missed.

Aaron.


----------



## jester47

*THE FR CORE ETHOS STATEMENT*

Hello everyone, it seems the thief has a heart of gold, or maybe it is just a sense of fair competition.

The thief looked down the cavern's passage, the dragon was coming, that was for sure.  The paladin was saying somthing to him, but he was not listening.  Sure they could escepe together, just maybe.  But there was only one dragon.  Splitting up would ensure the survival of both.  But which one?  The thief was not about to take a chance with his own life, so that meant there was only one way to split up and ensure survival.  Someone would have to stay behind.  The thief knew the paladin would not do this.  Fingering the pommel of his dagger he gazed at the open space in the armor behind the paladins knee.  He thought about the quick stroke.  But then he remembered the code of the guild of Kor-Nalakat.  He who steals by the knife, dies by the knife.  And was he not stealing time from his companion?   Furthermore, what would he meet later in these caves.  There were still many more dangers- better faced with a friend than alone.  And indeed the paladin was a friend.  And with this the thief chose a middle ground "Horgart!" he shouted the paladin's name, "Survival of the fittest!"  At this he began running down the passage.  If they were both fit, they would both survive.  Even though they were quite useful, the thief knew that dirty tricks could only get you so far.  And he needed to get as far as he could.

THE SENTENCE:  Page 6.  Column 1.  Ancient Wonders, paragraph 1 line 1.  

"The history of Faerun is dominated by the cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of magic."

Everything about the forgotten realms can come back to this statement.  

Aaron


----------



## Zulkir

Folks,

Welcome to the last week to get it postmarked!

Okay, things that I can cover:

1) Our admin is named Christina. You can make her happy by a) following the rules so she doesn't have to take the time to toss your submission b) she likes big envelopes more than small envelopes with folded entrys. To be clear none of this will give you an advantage since she has no vote and we won't know if your entry came in a small or large envelope. But it never hurts to be on the good side of the admin.

2)  Mail is now arriving in bins. 

3) Answering a question from another board, yes you should be very familiar with the three core books (PHB, DMG and MM) in order to do the 10 page submission (that seems obvious to me but *shrug*).

AV


----------



## River

My Friend and I are both submitting enteries.  He just mailed me this and I thought it would give someone a hoot.

Thanks for the help, I encorporated many of your ideas.  I switched around the order a little like Adam suggested, and
I did many of John's excellent punctuation related changes.  I also added a section about orcs and pies.

I mailed it out this morning, so I don't have to deal with it anymore.  I got sick of seeing it after I worked on it for another 2.5 hours on Sunday.  Now, I am ready to be bitter.  I am prepared for the "Thank you for your submission proposal, we received many excellent ideas, but were not able to include yours among them.  Thank you for participating in our contest, and we hope you will buy our newest campaign world, "Orcs and Pies".




River


----------



## River

mythusmage said:
			
		

> *Alan Kellogg's One Sentence Setting Proposal Which Covers Everything You Need to Know About the Setting.
> 
> You kill people and it's legal.
> 
> (Six words. Who'll be the first to beat that?) *




Boot, Slay, Loot!

River


----------



## dema

*Parchment paper?*

Hey Anthony-

Is very light parchment paper ok to use?

Just wondering-


----------



## MythicJustice

*Re: Parchment paper?*



			
				dema said:
			
		

> *Hey Anthony-
> 
> Is very light parchment paper ok to use?
> 
> Just wondering- *




Dema,

Even if it's ok, which I imagine it is, you might want to check and see how well a copy of your proposal will look when made from the parchment. Remember, the review committee gets a copy of the 1 page proposal, not the original.

-Chad Justice


----------



## yragthecareful

*ethos statement*

This is my first post but I managed to wade through all 30 pages of this subject without getting another cup of copy.

The ethos statement is interesting in that the entertainment industry uses the same thing to sum up their movies.  Each studio maintains a large 'red book' which lists each story as a title and one or two sentences.  It's a quick way to get a read on a story, or in this case, a world.

I'm glad I read through all of these threads.  Thanks for all of the useful contest information in these posts...and the humor contained in the ones that are 'not so useful' but fun, nevertheless.

Gary Pratt
Creative Director
Hallmark Cards  (wishing it was Wizards)


----------



## dema

*Thank you Chad*

Thank you Chad

I forgot about the photocopy thing.


Good luck,
-dem


----------



## Paka

Could someone who knows someone please tell the WOTC people that the link to the contest guidelines and the submission agreement don't appear to be working.

Could just be over-worked, I reckon.


----------



## uberkitty

Paka said:
			
		

> *Could someone who knows someone please tell the WOTC people that the link to the contest guidelines and the submission agreement don't appear to be working.
> *




I was just there within the last half hour, and all the links worked fine.


----------



## Xeriar

*Re: THE FR CORE ETHOS STATEMENT*



			
				jester47 said:
			
		

> *Hello everyone, it seems the thief has a heart of gold, or maybe it is just a sense of fair competition.
> 
> THE SENTENCE:  Page 6.  Column 1.  Ancient Wonders, paragraph 1 line 1.
> 
> "The history of Faerun is dominated by the cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of magic."
> 
> Everything about the forgotten realms can come back to this statement.
> 
> Aaron *




"The history of Earth is dominated by the cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of technology."


----------



## kawaiiryuko

*Section 7 Contradictory?*

Hmm.. Is it me, or does anyone see a problem with the process that WotC is going to use?

They want to strip the pages of the cover letter so that each entry only has a number, yet they want us to put a name on each of the 1-page entries (see Section 7 in their template)?

Or is there a response to this somewhere that I've missed in the FAQ?


----------



## Rasyr

*Re: Section 7 Contradictory?*



			
				kawaiiryuko said:
			
		

> *Hmm.. Is it me, or does anyone see a problem with the process that WotC is going to use?
> 
> They want to strip the pages of the cover letter so that each entry only has a number, yet they want us to put a name on each of the 1-page entries (see Section 7 in their template)?
> 
> Or is there a response to this somewhere that I've missed in the FAQ? *




The name on the bottom of the submission is so that it can be linked to the cover page in case they get seperated.

The position, bottom left corner, is so that the name can be covered, while a number is added and it can be photocopied, so that an anonymous entry is what the judges see.

Thus when a judge says that entry number 278 is one of the ten, she then goes through her copies (the originals), and finds the one with 278 on it. She then looks at the name, and goes through the contact pages (if they got seperated - quite possible with "bins" of entries arriving daily now). and matches the name on the bottom left to the name on the cover sheet, and she can then contact the proper person.

Nothing wrong there... just your overworked imagination....


----------



## kawaiiryuko

Whew!  Good to know.


----------



## Ktepi

*Re: Re: THE FR CORE ETHOS STATEMENT*



			
				Xeriar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> "The history of Earth is dominated by the cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of technology." *




It's far more true of the Forgotten Realms, from what I know of Realms history.  You'd really have to stretch things to describe the ends of the Roman, Egyptian, Greek, or Sumerian empires as "cataclysmic" (hell, the Romans kept calling themselves an Empire for a long time after the place where we currently mark their end) -- and none of them were founded on knowledge of the intricacies of technology.  That may have helped with the successes of imperial effort, particularly in Rome's case, but had nothing to do with the founding of said empires.


----------



## Argarion

*1 entry per idea*

Could anyone please confirme me that there has been a rule addendum regarding one entry per idea?

I recall from the day I read the whole thread that we were not limited to 1 entry per idea. I've been through the FAQ, but there isn't anything regarding this.

Thanks.

pd: I want to thank  AV and all the others out there who answer these type of questions (I guess time and time again).


----------



## JoeCrow

*Re: THE FR CORE ETHOS STATEMENT*



			
				jester47 said:
			
		

> *Hello everyone, it seems the thief has a heart of gold, or maybe it is just a sense of fair competition.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> THE SENTENCE:  Page 6.  Column 1.  Ancient Wonders, paragraph 1 line 1.
> 
> "The history of Faerun is dominated by the cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of magic."
> 
> Everything about the forgotten realms can come back to this statement.
> 
> Aaron *




Hey, thanks. We appreciate it, man.

See, the thief can backstab, but the bard can guilt-trip!


----------



## mythusmage

*Re: ethos statement*



			
				yragthecareful said:
			
		

> *Gary Pratt
> Creative Director
> Hallmark Cards  (wishing it was Wizards) *




Now here's a guy who knows how to distill things down to their basics.

BTW, Hallmark coming out with a DnD line anytime soon?


----------



## Undead Pete

*Re: ethos statement*



			
				yragthecareful said:
			
		

> *This is my first post but I managed to wade through all 30 pages of this subject without getting another cup of copy.
> 
> The ethos statement is interesting in that the entertainment industry uses the same thing to sum up their movies.  Each studio maintains a large 'red book' which lists each story as a title and one or two sentences.  It's a quick way to get a read on a story, or in this case, a world.
> 
> I'm glad I read through all of these threads.  Thanks for all of the useful contest information in these posts...and the humor contained in the ones that are 'not so useful' but fun, nevertheless.
> 
> Gary Pratt
> Creative Director
> Hallmark Cards  (wishing it was Wizards) *




Hey Gary,

On another note.... how does one go about sending in freelance ideas for greeting cards?  I may want to change careers.

 

p.s. It is a serious question


----------



## jester47

*Re: Re: THE FR CORE ETHOS STATEMENT*



			
				Xeriar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> "The history of Earth is dominated by the cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of technology." *




What tells us it is a core ethos sentance?  Simply the fact that you have to change the subject and the object of the sentance for it  to aplpy to another world.  

Well lets look at the sentence.  To make this easier lets put it in the active voice:

The cyclic rise and cataclysmic destruction of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of magic dominate the history of Faerun.  

The object is easy to change: The history of BLANK.
Change just the object and BLANK shares the same ethos as Faerun.  

However, the subject of this sentence is a humdinger, because there are two.  First we have "the cyclic rise" then we have the "cataclysmic destruction" these are both modified by "of empires founded on knowledge of the intricacies of magic."  Change any of these three elements in the subject and you change the ethos.  

If you change magic to technology, you have changed the ethos.  A better core ethos sentence for the real world is:

The cyclic rise and slow decline of empires founded on the application of knowledge dominate the history of Earth. 

You have to change some things for it to fit earth, which means Earth Ethos /= Faerun Ethos (duh.)  This means that the sentence does describe the ethos of the forgotten realms with some accuracy.  

Aaron.


----------



## theburningman

I'm good to go.  Finished up weighing in at 529 words in 12 pt. Times New Roman.  Includes name and headings.  Whew!

Good luck to everyone else!  Winner buys the board a round!


----------



## Delog

*One submission per idea*

Hi,
I've been following the discussion, but I couldn't find a confirmation from Wizards about the issue "one idea per submission".

I understand that I cant send the same setting twice, but can I send the same setting in two different versions, one campaign driven and another world driven ? Would it still be considered the same idea even if the flavor is different ?

Thanks a lot,


----------



## Dammi

Hi!

2 Proposals, 500 and 700 words respectively. Hope they get to the US in time...


Greetz,

Dammi


----------



## SSquirrel

*archetypes and icons*

We're not supposed to include iconic characters, but instead archetypal correct?  My quetsion is this..is iconic considered saying things like "a human priest, dwarven fighter, elven mage and halfling thief are working to blah blah blah and their mothers blah blah"? Should I instead should say something more like "new adventurers out to make a buck and see the world"?  That vague enough?  

Oh yeah.  Neither would be what I would use, just easy examples


----------



## yragthecareful

*Re: Re: ethos statement*



			
				Undead Pete said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hey Gary,
> 
> On another note.... how does one go about sending in freelance ideas for greeting cards?  I may want to change careers.
> 
> 
> 
> p.s. It is a serious question *




Not to detract from the Wizards thread, but, we don't use freelance writers.  We do use freelance artists who sometimes turn in their own ideas.  To get in the door you must submit a portfolio.

On the Wizard's Submission- Good luck to all entering this contest.  It's the best opportunity I've ever seen to break into the rpg business.  And since the content you create can then be used over and over again on hundreds of Wotc products (formats) it is really a brilliant marketing move.
The total contest cost of 160k plus the headcount time (cost) to go over the entries is tiny when compared to what it can earn for a well established company.

With the diluge of worldbooks out there and the opening up of the d20 system, Wizards is in need of a new face for D&D 3rd Edt. Without a new world that they can continue to scale up, their presense will weaken over time.  Once again, a brilliant move for Wotc and all budding designers out there.

Gary Pratt


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*My masterpeice*

485 words

numbered paragraphs with a space between paragraphs. 

10 point "Verdana" type (It's the type face WotC used for the questions.)

1.25 inch margins

Yep, I have an icecube's chance.


----------



## Parcher

Regarding submitting more than one idea:

You can submit as many proposals as you want, provided that each is accompanied by a separate, signed Idea Submission Form (downloaded from the PDF file on the Wizards site). However, I think it's more sensible, rather than submitting several different versions of essentially the same world, to construct one version that is easily applicable to RPGs, novels, miniatures, and TCGs. 

You can submit on lightly colored parchment if you want, but it's really not going to make an impression on the selection committee, since we don't see the originals. As someone here remarked, colored paper won't photocopy as well as plain paper. 

Please keep in mind that with the sheer number of proposals we're looking at, readability counts for something. In fact, it counts for quite a lot. I'd stay away from fancy fonts, colored paper, and really, really small type size. Such things won't cause us to automatically toss your submission, but they'll get in the way of our appreciation of its content.

Personally, I expect the number of submissions we receive to dramatically increase as the week draws to a close, and we'll be reading frantically during the next week or so. Anything that eases eye strain would be very much appreciated.


----------



## Weeble

Parcher, I missed your credentials.


----------



## EdgarM

*Is Fedex ok?*

This may seem an unnecessary question, but I almost never put anything on the mail. I'm an email guy! 

Is sending my submission through Fedex ok? Time is running out and I don't live in the US. I don't know how the postmarking works with them.

Thanks!


----------



## Kid Charlemagne

Sent mine in yesterday; 600 words in Arial 10 point typeface, plus a snazzy B&W title graphic for a header.  It's a full, solid, page of writing, but I think that I was able to say all the stuff that I wanted to, or needed to.

I'm very keen to see how this all plays out, and I hope that some of our own EN World folk get into the final ten.  Especially me.


----------



## Kid Charlemagne

*Re: Is Fedex ok?*



			
				EdgarM said:
			
		

> *This may seem an unnecessary question, but I almost never put anything on the mail. I'm an email guy!
> 
> Is sending my submission through Fedex ok? Time is running out and I don't live in the US. I don't know how the postmarking works with them.
> 
> Thanks! *




I would if I were you, especially being outside the US.  FedEx offers the most guaranteed deliuvery you'll get, and the peace of mind of being able to know your proposal got there - or the ability to track it down if they fail...


----------



## Christian

*Re: Is Fedex ok?*



			
				EdgarM said:
			
		

> *This may seem an unnecessary question, but I almost never put anything on the mail. I'm an email guy!
> 
> Is sending my submission through Fedex ok? Time is running out and I don't live in the US. I don't know how the postmarking works with them.*




Unfortunately, you won't be able to get Fed Ex to deliver to a P.O. Box. When a U.S. address is a P.O. box, that's a drop box inside a post office; courier services like Federal Express don't have access to deliver things there, only the USPS can. Sorry ... you'll have to trust to the public mails.


----------



## Parcher

The point about FedEx and P.O.boxes is well taken. For those of you interested in using Federal Express or any other delivery service, Wizards' street address is:

1801 Lind Avenue
Renton, WA 98057

Hope this helps.


----------



## seasong

*Multiple Settings* 

Well, it looks like I'm only going to submit one setting. A week and a half (1-2 hours per day) to get the first one completed to my satisfaction, so I don't think I can make a second one as good in the four days remaining. Not unless I forego sleep.

On the other hand, I'm glad I devoted myself to the first one, first. It is the best of the best of what I could have written about the setting.

*Bad Advice* 

And now that it's done, that it's as good as it's going to get within the realm of my capacities... I'm finally having some competitive feelings. So I thought I'd vent them in as harmless a manner as possible.  

I know that some of you are better writers than me. You craft words naturally, without resorting to "Clarity & Grace" or old Journalism 101 books. You are master wordsmiths, wrapping clever phrasing around your little finger. You shouldn't enter. It's a waste of time for someone of your caliber. You can make much more money writing novels. So go. Write novels. Forget about this silly little fan thingy.

I have a great idea. Some of you may have a better idea, one I never thought of. Your setting is some original, clever new way of looking at fantasy that is going to redefine the genre. You shouldn't enter, either. Your ideas are too good for WotC. They won't understand your ideas. So go. Create your own gaming company. Forget about those staid Wizards.

And SOME of you probably fit both of the above. I hope you just die  . Either that, or move to Austin and run games for me. Either will do, now that I think about it.

Finally, a few words of advice:

1. I got my page down to *25 words*. In fact, I answered every question, in order, in the Core Ethos sentence. Then I put it in 30 point font so the poor judges could read it better. You should, too. They will be impressed with your compactness of thought, and kindness to their eyes. If you can not completely describe your setting in 25 words, well, you just shouldn't enter, sissy.

2. I'm waiting until the last second, Saturday in fact, before I send mine off. That's just in case there is a last second announcement of a change in the proposal rules. I want to make sure I get everything just right. Yep, yep. Saturday, that's my day. *You should wait, too.* And don't pay attention to those people saying "Friday is the last day". Everyone knows that deadlines usually have a one-day leeway.

3. Remember, if you send in 100 entries, you have a *one hundred times better chance of winning!* That's right. Editting is for those blowhards who don't understand odds - in fact, the more time you spend working on each page, the fewer entries you'll be able to slam out. So get cracking!

Finally, I wouldn't listen to me right now. I want my setting to make it into the top ten, I really do, but more importantly, I want a GOOD setting to make it. I think mine's good, but as long as I lose to something better, I think I can be satisfied with that  .


----------



## Xeriar

Parcher said:
			
		

> *The point about FedEx and P.O.boxes is well taken. For those of you interested in using Federal Express or any other delivery service, Wizards' street address is:
> 
> 1801 Lind Avenue
> Renton, WA 98057
> 
> Hope this helps. *




Do you know the 4-digit extension?  Makes things much more reliable 

---

The amount of mail you are no doubt recieving worries me.  It is likely that some of the last submissions you recieve will be the ones with the most thought or work put into them.

Would be a shame on all counts if the best of them got lost in the rush :-(


----------



## Parcher

Aack! Wrong zip code. 

The correct address is:

1801 Lind Avenue
Renton, WA 98055

There's no four-digit extension--at any rate, you shouldn't need it.

Sorry for the goof.


----------



## slaughterj

Parcher said:
			
		

> *Aack! Wrong zip code.
> 
> The correct address is:
> 
> 1801 Lind Avenue
> Renton, WA 98055
> 
> There's no four-digit extension--at any rate, you shouldn't need it.
> 
> Sorry for the goof. *




My understanding is that in order to send a fedex, that a phone number is required (so that the delivery person can verify a location in case there is a delivery issue).  I also understand you do not want to give out a phone number to have people calling and asking questions about this "contest," however, for those of us who are interested in the security of sending in a submission via such a carrier other than the post office, this is necessary information.


----------



## SHARK

Greetings!

Just wondering, in the revamped requirements, the name is to be #7, at the lower left hand section of the page.

If one maintains the 1" margin, on the page, and cycles down to the bottom, in line though with the other numbered sections, and puts the name there, is that acceptable?

Or does it have to be hand written outside that 1" margin in the exact corner of the page?

Example:
____________________________________________________


                    (6) What's New? What's Different?
                          Blah blah blah









                     (7) John Q. Public
____________________________________________________


Or--
____________________________________________________



                      (6) What's New? What's Different?
                            Blah blah blah










(7) John Q. Public
___________________________________________________

Thanks.

Semper Fidelis,

SHARK


----------



## Xeriar

SHARK said:
			
		

> *Greetings!
> 
> Just wondering, in the revamped requirements, the name is to be #7, at the lower left hand section of the page.
> 
> If one maintains the 1" margin, on the page, and cycles down to the bottom, in line though with the other numbered sections, and puts the name there, is that acceptable?
> 
> SHARK *




I'm picturing Christina with two or three big reels of stickers that get wrapped over your name and stamped on your cover letter and/or submission agreement.

Something along those lines, anyway.


----------



## Raschesohn

*Have you bribed the mailman yet?*

Well, as my first post here on EN World I'd just like to say that I just mailed off my proposal today of this writing, priority mail with the USPS (here's hoping they stick to their promise of delivery time of 2-3 days).  It weighs in at a pretty hefty 965 words (I can get pretty wordy for a shy guy, lol) with 9 pt arial font for my main text and bolded 10 pt for the 6 section labels (7 if you count the entrant thing at the bottom) with 1 inch margins all around.

I cut a whole lot of fluff out before, much to my chagrin, but cramming in an overview of a setting on to one page sounds a lot easier than actually pulling it off.  Personally, in between 2 web site designs and a 3D video game project for school and making plans for a trip during my 2 week break, I don't know how I found the time to send one proposal off, much less 2 or 3 or more like a lot of people seem to be doing! 

Anyway, this is the first time I ever sent in any material to an official gaming company, and it's been an interesting experience to say the least.  I'm currently taking a class on writing up proposals and game treatments for 3D video games, and it helped a bit in my writing and thinking process, I think.  It's great that WotC is searching for new talent and ideas; I just hope they can manage to keep from drowning in the deluge of mail coming their way.

I'm fairly confident that my proposal has a bit more meat, organization, and detail than a lot of others, but I'm not kidding myself into thinking I'm going to win by any stretch of the imagination, lol (though the money would be really nice, plus doing something you love for a living - most everyone's dream come true!).  Win or lose, I wish everyone good luck and I'll probably post my proposal up on this board or Wizards' if only to see how others like it.  It couldn't have been a total waste of my time mulling and fretting over every word I wrote these past two days.


----------



## EarthsShadow

*after the contest is over*

When this is over and the ten 2nd rounders are finalized, we all need to come on here and discuss some of what makes our worlds unique and perhaps a different gaming company will see us and pick up on some of them.  At least this way some of us can see what we were thinking of and how similar some of us are in retrospect.

We can also congratulate the ten 2nd rounders in their endeavors and we shall see what happens.  

I mean, just becasuse WOTC doesn't pick us, doesn't mean a different company won't either.  Who knows what the future holds?


----------



## Oracular Vision

*One half of a form*

I have to read documentation for a living. So, after completing my entries, I noticed that the first three questions are pretty useless. In fact, most of what is special about your setting is question #6. It's the only place you can actually talk about what makes your setting different and therefore interesting. I don't think the other five are of much use. If I was reviewing them, I'd only read your answer to #6, and then I'd read the other five. If your answer to #6 is not much different from the standard setting, I'd say that your entry will be deselected without being read further. Just thought I'd help those who aren't finished.

Experiment: Cover over your sheet and only read question #6. Does it say everything you needed saying? This may be your only chance to sell your words. They are NOT going to be reading it all. How many answers to #1 do you think you'd have to read before you lost all interest in "A world where...."


----------



## Zulkir

Folks,
The flood has well and truly begun. Don't expect to see too much of us in the next two to three weeks.

AV


----------



## EricNoah

*waves*

Bye, Anthony.  It was nice knowing you!


----------



## Ghostwind

I can just see the headlines now... 

"Wizards of the Coast's Renton facility crumbles due to deluge of mail."
AP- Renton, Wa
Games publisher Wizards of the Coast had a major setback today when their main office facility's walls disintegrated causing the collapse of the building.  The cause is believed to be a very large influx of mail recently due to a contest sponsored by Wizards that led to the submission of tens of thousands of letters.
"Apparently, the building was not built to handle the excessive bulk and weight of all that mail." Anthony Valterra, Business Manage of Wizards was heard to say.  "We never dreamed that we would receive so much mail.  We are currently digging through the rubble in order to find people who were buried under the paperwork."
Although many people were able to flee, Valterra confirmed that three employees are still unaccounted for.  "We are still searching for Don Williams, Peter Archer, and my admin Christine who were all near the epicenter of the hall closet where the mail was being stored when it exploded."  The setback is expected to only delay business operations for a single day due to Wizards invoking of a secret contractual clause with several fantasy deities that will instantly rebuild the facility and heal anyone injured.  Valterra has issued assurances that all contest submissions will still be read and a winner selected before the initial deadline since they now plan to use those same deities to simplify the process of selection. 

Isn't the thought just hysterical...


----------



## mythusmage

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> The flood has well and truly begun. Don't expect to see too much of us in the next two to three weeks.
> 
> AV *




Is it true you'll be using the first round rejects to make a life sized papier mache model of an ancient gold dragon?


----------



## Tallow

*Re: One half of a form*



			
				Oracular Vision said:
			
		

> *I have to read documentation for a living. So, after completing my entries, I noticed that the first three questions are pretty useless. In fact, most of what is special about your setting is question #6. It's the only place you can actually talk about what makes your setting different and therefore interesting. I don't think the other five are of much use. If I was reviewing them, I'd only read your answer to #6, and then I'd read the other five. If your answer to #6 is not much different from the standard setting, I'd say that your entry will be deselected without being read further. Just thought I'd help those who aren't finished.
> 
> Experiment: Cover over your sheet and only read question #6. Does it say everything you needed saying? This may be your only chance to sell your words. They are NOT going to be reading it all. How many answers to #1 do you think you'd have to read before you lost all interest in "A world where...." *




Question 1, I'd almost agree with you that it is useless.  Except that it is the shocker.  Its like a newspaper headline.  Do you read an article first or last, if the headline is boring.

If you can't portray what you would put in answer #6, in answers 2 through 5, then you really don't have much to put in #6.  In 2 and 3, the best things to do is tell them who your heroe's are, and what they do, by portraying your heroes as something outside the norm.  Same thing with villains and conflicts.

You should be able to answer #6 before you get there, and then use #6 as a summarization of your paper.

Andy Christian


----------



## Mercule

Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *I can just see the headlines now...
> 
> ...
> 
> Isn't the thought just hysterical... *




ROTFLMAO

It wouldn't be so funny if I didn't think it was so close to the truth.


----------



## Duncan Haldane

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> The flood has well and truly begun. Don't expect to see too much of us in the next two to three weeks.
> 
> AV *




Inspired by the name of Eric Noah, I've been preparing just for this eventuality.  Now, I need WotC to send me TWO copies of all published works and works in progress, and I will make sure they survive the flood...

Hey, it's worth a try! 

Duncan


----------



## reddist

*whew*

Finally.  Two proposals... one based on a game I've been running for 1.5 years, and another I whipped up last week.  I'm going to try and hammer one more out tomorrow night, just as an exercise in creativity.  Doubt I'll send it in.

We should all send Christina thank you cards. Or sympathy cards.  One or the other, just to let her know we care.

'luck, all


-Reddist


----------



## gregweller

My wife and I finally got our submission together and in an envelope ready to be mailed out tomorrow morning. It finally weighed in at 626 words in 10pt TImes New Roman.  I used to teach college freshman English classes, and I caught myself doing what I used to tell my students not to do --  stop obsessing over the writing. Once you've written something down and made a few changes, you can stop.  After a certain point, the more you rewrite, the worse it gets.  My wife finally rolled her eyes and said that we can stop now.  If nothing else, it was an interesting exercize and forced us to get something down on paper--something that we had said we were going to do for years. Amazing how much focus a hundred grand brings to one's writing. And I'm glad I have 5 weeks of vacation time saved up, because if we make the cut, I know I'm not going to be able to focus on work for awhile--I've already warned my boss.


----------



## Undead Pete

*Re: One half of a form*



			
				Oracular Vision said:
			
		

> *I have to read documentation for a living. So, after completing my entries, I noticed that the first three questions are pretty useless. In fact, most of what is special about your setting is question #6. It's the only place you can actually talk about what makes your setting different and therefore interesting. I don't think the other five are of much use. If I was reviewing them, I'd only read your answer to #6, and then I'd read the other five. If your answer to #6 is not much different from the standard setting, I'd say that your entry will be deselected without being read further. Just thought I'd help those who aren't finished.
> 
> Experiment: Cover over your sheet and only read question #6. Does it say everything you needed saying? This may be your only chance to sell your words. They are NOT going to be reading it all. How many answers to #1 do you think you'd have to read before you lost all interest in "A world where...." *




I somewhat agree.  The Core Ethos Statement in #1 needs to grab their attention, but beyond that #6 is by far the most important.  Approximately 400 words, or half my entry, was concentrated in question #6.  

I don't believe the other questions are entirely useles either.  I used those questions to expand my main ideas.


----------



## River

*Re: whew*



			
				reddist said:
			
		

> *
> We should all send Christina thank you cards. Or sympathy cards.  One or the other, just to let her know we care.
> 
> 'luck, all
> 
> -Reddist *




I was planning on skipping all that and going directly to CA$H!  I figure a $50 tucked away with my submission couldn't hurt anything now could it?

River


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: Re: whew*



> *I figure a $50 tucked away with my submission couldn't hurt anything now could it?*




Only $50?  I put in a fresh and crisp $100 bill...


----------



## Mercule

*Re: Re: Re: whew*



			
				Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Only $50?  I put in a fresh and crisp $100 bill...  *




I guess the diamond pendant I sent was overkill, huh?


----------



## HexGunna

*Re: Re: Re: Re: whew*



			
				Mercule said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I guess the diamond pendant I sent was overkill, huh? *




hmmm...having 2nd thoughts about the Virgin Island Tickets I sent....


----------



## Tom Cashel

Approx. 366 words in 12-pt. Times.  Mailed today.  Why strain their eyes with all the details when you can make tantalizing suggestions about what the 10-pager will contain? 

Good luck, everyone!


----------



## reddist

See, now you're just being silly.  I was just gonna THANK her for putting up with our tsunami of paper. The most a bribe could do is keep your proposal out of the roundfile.  You wanna bribe somebody, send those tickets to AV  Or me, and I will respectfully withdraw the weaker of my two submissions, thus slightly improving your chances for getting picked 

Seriously, I'm sure she's having a rough, if not long and tedious, two weeks.

-Reddist


----------



## Aloïsius

*help a foreigner...*

I'm looking for a disinterested person willing to check my proposal. I'm especially afraid that some of my sentence may sound awkard : it's hard to tell if a word sound ridiculous when you are not a native speaker.


----------



## seasong

*Re: help a foreigner...*



			
				Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *I'm looking for a disinterested person willing to check my proposal. I'm especially afraid that some of my sentence may sound awkard : it's hard to tell if a word sound ridiculous when you are not a native speaker. *




Reading the above, you should definitely get someone who can to go over your text. I'm lucky in that I have an English teacher and literature major for a friend.  

Unfortunately, I'm in the contest, so I can't really help you.

I can say that the only real mistakes in your text above are related to singular/plural agreement (see below). If that's the only mistake you make commonly, you can probably correct it fairly easily on your own:

"I'm especially afraid that some of my sentences may sound awkard : it's hard to tell if a word sounds ridiculous when you are not a native speaker."

"some of" indicates plural, so "sentence" should be "sentences".

"a word" is singular, so "a word sound" should be "a word sounds". When in doubt, you can *usually* apply the rule that plural nouns and singular 3rd person verbs have an s on the end.

I            singular 1st person  "I run."
we         plural 1st person      "We run."
you       singular 2nd person  "You run."
you all   plural 2nd person     "You all run."
he         singular 3rd person  "He runs."
she       singular 3rd person  "She runs."
it           singular 3rd person  "It runs."
they      plural 3rd person      "They run."


----------



## Aloïsius

*Re: Re: help a foreigner...*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Reading the above, you should definitely get someone who can to go over your text. I'm lucky in that I have an English teacher and literature major for a friend.
> 
> "some of" indicates plural, so "sentence" should be "sentences".
> 
> *



I have a problem with those "s", but nothing MS-Word is unable to handle (and nothing I'm unable to correct when I take the time to do it). 
I will have to wait my brother to correct the rest...


----------



## Aloïsius

And a big thank you for the En-boarders who E-mailed me. You rock !


----------



## The_Hag

My partner believes it is a way for them to "poll" what the most creative and hardcore minds want--and that therefor the winner may resemble some kind of mean. 

I am not as cynical. I think they are looking for a genuine idea. Also, I don't think the hardcore minds are the mean in terms of marketing. 

But it was a tasty thought.

The Hag



			
				Mercere said:
			
		

> What amazed me about this contest is what a great marketing campaign it is for Wizards


----------



## Upper_Krust

Hi all! 

Just wanted to wish everyone good luck! 

I sent my proposal earlier today (526 words at 10pt Arial for those who are keeping track of such things).

In the event I don't win myself, I hope that someone from ENWorld eventually brings home the bacon!


----------



## HexGunna

*Hey Best of luck to all of ya!*

Excepting of course the 'ringers'  !

I'm loving this whole contest process  - It's competing at it best & worst. Forcing folks to get on top of their game!

I'm in the mail 1st thing in the morn!
Weighing in at 670 words, 12pt font, TNR & Garamound.

Sure wish they'd release a top 20 (or 50) "Just missed" list - all kindsa data in that!!

Best To ya!


----------



## sigfried

*Re: Re: One half of a form*



			
				Undead Pete said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I somewhat agree.  The Core Ethos Statement in #1 needs to grab their attention, but beyond that #6 is by far the most important.  Approximately 400 words, or half my entry, was concentrated in question #6.
> 
> I don't believe the other questions are entirely useles either.  I used those questions to expand my main ideas. *




If your good, you can tell them about your setting in each and every section.  If you truly have a cohesive world, with a feel and style then it should show through all over the place.  Whatever they key elements are each section should demonstrate them through the lense of the section requirements.

So for the Heroes section you ask.  Why are heroes in my world different than other worlds.  What about the world motivates their actions and forms their personalieis.  If nothing comes to mind you probably need to think it through more.


----------



## brak1

Finally got mine out.  After stressing about that for a week I decided to do up a quick joke one to send in.  Hope you don't mind my sharing:

Core ethos: A planet where apes evolved from men.

Who are the heros: astronauts

What do they do:  Run around half naked, screaming about what a "madhouse" it all is.

Villians/Conflicts: apes

Magic: Nope

What's different:  "They blew it up.  Those bastards!  THEY BLEW IT UP!!"


----------



## Zulkir

Folks,
So we've tossed about 10% but in that time we have not had a more than one page submission until today. I knew it would happen someone decided that the rule applies to everyone else but not to me because I (and my world) are *special*. After we've awarded the $100,000 I think I'll read it just to see what was so all fired amazing that someone felt they could not follow the rules.

AV

p.s. Not important but in case anyone was curious. We are three hole punching one page submissions and putting them in 3 inch binders. About 200 to a binder (anymore and they are too awkward to carry around). I usually take a binder home with me in the evenings and work on it at night as well.


----------



## Enkhidu

Well, my team and I just shipped our entry off to Renton, and it weighs in at a hefty 837 words in 10 pt arial - not much wasted space, but still a quick 2.5 to 3 minute read (when read aloud). Distilling 15+ years of crunchy gaming goodness can be hard!

Any bets on when Anthony will let us know how many submissions there were total?

Oh, and good luck to all the submitters - I know for a fact that my team and I are up against some very stiff competition from you guys!


----------



## Zappo

How many have arrived until now?


----------



## Rasyr

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> So we've tossed about 10% but in that time we have not had a more than one page submission until today. I knew it would happen someone decided that the rule applies to everyone else but not to me because I (and my world) are *special*. After we've awarded the $100,000 I think I'll read it just to see what was so all fired amazing that someone felt they could not follow the rules.*




What would be really funny is if this guy who sent in the "more than a single page" submission actually had an extremly good setting idea. One that actually was better than all the rest....

And to be roundfiled solely because he could not contain himself, and keep it to one page... heheheh



> _Originally posted by Zulkir _*
> p.s. Not important but in case anyone was curious. We are three hole punching one page submissions and putting them in 3 inch binders. About 200 to a binder (anymore and they are too awkward to carry around). I usually take a binder home with me in the evenings and work on it at night as well. *




I would call you a work-a-holic, but I am even worse than you. I work a full time job (40 hrs a week now, but 70-80 during tax filing season), and then work half the night on projects for another gaming company, and also maintain their forums, plus try to spend time with my family.... Needless to say, I only sleep about 4-5 hours a night, and even then my mind is working on solutions to certain problems... heheh


----------



## 2WS-Steve

Ya know, I run multi-dimension campaigns a lot; I could probably find value in 5,000 one page world descriptions...

....though 5,000 worlds "sort of like Forgotten Realms but different" might not be so useful.


----------



## Xeriar

> What would be really funny is if this guy who sent in the "more than a single page" submission actually had an extremly good setting idea. One that actually was better than all the rest....




The top 8-12 that WotC selects are probably all going to be very good, and also extremely varied, despite the 'medieval' common-theme.

Calling any one of these better than another is going to be a dubious claim at best, and probably the next dozen on down as well.

My submission is hovering around 450 words at this point.  I think the idea here is not to show just what you can cram into a page (1,300 words!?!) - but to show how well you can condense your thoughts.

How many words does it take to evoke an emotion?


----------



## Rasyr

Xeriar said:
			
		

> *How many words does it take to evoke an emotion? *




One, if it is the proper word, used in the proper context.....


----------



## seasong

Thanks for the update, Anthony! Helps keep my nerves simmering.


----------



## Undead Pete

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> So we've tossed about 10% but in that time we have not had a more than one page submission until today. I knew it would happen someone decided that the rule applies to everyone else but not to me because I (and my world) are *special*. After we've awarded the $100,000 I think I'll read it just to see what was so all fired amazing that someone felt they could not follow the rules.*




Just how far over was this turniphead's proposal?


----------



## EOL

If they're doing a three hole punch does this mean we should make the left margin bigger than the right, to accomodate that?

Thoughts?


----------



## Sigma

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> So we've tossed about 10% but in that time we have not had a more than one page submission until today. I knew it would happen someone decided that the rule applies to everyone else but not to me because I (and my world) are *special*. After we've awarded the $100,000 I think I'll read it just to see what was so all fired amazing that someone felt they could not follow the rules.
> *




But...but...but Ninjaworld *is* that special!!!  The rules shouldn't apply to a superior setting that's better than 99% of the stuff you'll see.  Heck, Ninjaworld is a setting of sneaky-killing and katanas that do 3d6 damage, where dark mysterious ninjas fight wretched slovenly pirates.  And, it's me!  I don't mean to brag, but I write gooder than everyone I now.  

Hmph.  Fine then, it's off to S&S.  I bet *they* won't mind if my submission is 6 pages.

PS  NINJAS ROXXOR!!!!


----------



## Irysangel

*Mmm.*

I love me some ninjas.


----------



## River

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> p.s. Not important but in case anyone was curious. We are three hole punching one page submissions and putting them in 3 inch binders. About 200 to a binder (anymore and they are too awkward to carry around). I usually take a binder home with me in the evenings and work on it at night as well. *




Just out of curosity, how many of these binders are you up to?

River


----------



## River

2WS-Steve said:
			
		

> *Ya know, I run multi-dimension campaigns a lot; I could probably find value in 5,000 one page world descriptions...
> 
> ....though 5,000 worlds "sort of like Forgotten Realms but different" might not be so useful. *




I myself would be more then happy to plop down $20 bucks for a 100 page book with 100 most original submissions WOTC can filter out.  Thats just distilled creativity right there!

Forget "Splat Books",  give me that.

River


----------



## Greybar

Three hole punch, eh?

That should be a good warning shot to people who are stretching the margins to the limits of their printers ability...

[glances down at draft beside keyboard]

whew.  that wasn't me. [grin]

John


----------



## Weeble

AV,
      One last question from me.  How will you EVER make the deadlines to notify winners in time while giving every acceptable submission a fair shot?  I can't imagine that every good submission will be looked at fairly, given the number that I think will hit the mailroom.


----------



## damnit!

*Re: help a foreigner...*



			
				Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *I'm looking for a disinterested person willing to check my proposal. I'm especially afraid that some of my sentence may sound awkard : it's hard to tell if a word sound ridiculous when you are not a native speaker. *




I wouldn't exactly say I'm disinterested, as I editted a proposal for one person already, but I'd be willing to look at your submission, if you'd like.  Just e-mail it to me ASAP; I'll check it over on Thursday and e-mail it right back to you.  If you could, however, please save it in a format that Lotus WordPro 97 can read.  I can filter several different file formats, including MS Word up to ver.6.


----------



## Mercule

Weeble said:
			
		

> *AV,
> One last question from me.  How will you EVER make the deadlines to notify winners in time while giving every acceptable submission a fair shot?  I can't imagine that every good submission will be looked at fairly, given the number that I think will hit the mailroom. *




Heh!  That's why I sent mine in on black paper typed in glow-in-the-dark ink.  When Anthony sets _my_ entry down for the night, it's gonna keep on talking to him.


----------



## NemesisPress

Everybody is talking about the idea and the physical presentation as if those are the the most important aspects.

I'm sure most of the entries are imaginative ideas with a great deal of potential. But what WOTC will be looking for is someone who can develop it - that's one reason why the format is so specific.


----------



## Ghostwind

> *That's why I sent mine in on black paper typed in glow-in-the-dark ink.  When Anthony sets _my_ entry down for the night, it's gonna keep on talking to him.   *




Dang!  I knew there was something that I should have done before I sent it...


----------



## Lord Zardoz

*Well, I sent my submission in today...*

I sent it in, and I sent it in using the "Express Post" service provided by Canada Post.  I managed to keep the submission to a very reasonable length after much editing.  I did not agonize over it for the last month.  I only actually sat down and typed out my ideas last night, and ran it through a spell checker a few times.  I even went ahead and used this as an excuse to replace my broken printer with one that works.

So for the price of about $210.00 Canadian Dollars, I will have a particular peace of mind.  It is the peace of mind that will come with the certanty of knowing that my idea was not worth considering beyond its initial submission.  Though I have enough of an Ego that I would not be absolutly blown away if my submission is seriously considered.  I know that my ideas are good ones.  But I also do not think that I truly expect my idea to get me a shot at the $100 000 prize.

However, I think that it is better for me to be certain rather then to spend the next year and a half wondering what the result would have been if I had submitted.  And if it does work out, and my idea does see print, then it is nice to know that my evil bastardry will eventually be inflicted upon thousands of gamers world wide.

END COMMUNICATION


----------



## GreyOne

Everyone can stop sending in their stuff.  I just got a private email from AV that my entry has been fast tracked 'cause its "all that and a bag of chips".  Thanks for coming out, though.



Jeez.  I just finished reading all frickin' 34 pages of this thread (over two days).


----------



## Oni

Whelp, all done, just have to drop it in the mail in the morning. 

Around 650 words, not including the secret hypnotic suggestions hidden deep within the verbal structure of my proposal.  

Cheers and good luck all!


----------



## absurdum

Well just sent mine, express post from Australia, they say it should reach the U.S. by tuesday or wednesday, there time. Weighed in at 761 words of pure brilliance, including my name. No headings and 10pt ariel, one space between each paragraph, it nicely filled one page  
If it doesn't make the ten pager i will post up the pager.
Thanks and worst of luck to everyone but me


----------



## brannagh

*another one from aus*

Another submission from aus...only 280 words. How do you people even _get_ 700 words on a page???


----------



## absurdum

*Re: another one from aus*



			
				brannagh said:
			
		

> *Another submission from aus...only 280 words. How do you people even _get_ 700 words on a page??? *




It's amazing how far you can smear a little BS


----------



## Plane Sailing

Arrrrrggghhhhhh!

I can't print the SubmissionAgreement PDF! All I get is little boxes!

Arrrrrggggghhhhhh!

Anyone know how to solve this pronto?


----------



## hong

Plane Sailing said:
			
		

> *Arrrrrggghhhhhh!
> 
> I can't print the SubmissionAgreement PDF! All I get is little boxes!
> 
> Arrrrrggggghhhhhh!
> 
> Anyone know how to solve this pronto? *




Are you printing to a PostScript printer? If so, try setting it to download TrueType fonts as soft fonts, rather than substituting a device font.


----------



## Plane Sailing

No, I'm printing to an HP Laserjet printer, from Windows 2000. I've tried it from Acrobat 4 (full version) and I've even downloaded Acrobat 5.05 reader, in case it was a version problem.


Grrrrr.

Any other ideas especially welcome


----------



## gregweller

Try using 'Print as Image' from the Adobe print command. Sometimes this will work. Or try printing out one page at a time.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Luck*

Did anyone else kiss their envelope for luck?

(If none of you did then mine will win for sure)


----------



## Plane Sailing

Phew, solution.

Apparently under Windows 2000, Acrobat doesn't like printing to an HP Laserjet 2100.

Happily, it WILL print to an older Laserjet 5N, and I found one in the IT dept.

Now, off to the post office!

Thanks for the helpful suggestions

Cheers


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: Luck*



			
				MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> *Did anyone else kiss their envelope for luck?
> 
> (If none of you did then mine will win for sure) *




Funny you ask.

I actually did, and so did my teammate.


----------



## Aloïsius

659 words (638 without labels), Garamond 12 (Garamond 14 for labels), 2.3 cm left margin, 2.2 cm right margin, 2cm upper and low margin. And (not like this post  ) checked by someone who do speak english.
I posted it via La Poste, because the express service (24 or 48 hours guaranted) cost 39 or 45 euro (roughly the same thing in US $)
I wonder how many people will realize (to late) after posting their masterpiece that they have forgotten to put such or such page in the envelope? I'm still afraid to have forgotten something.
Last question : When will we start a thread to compare our submissions? It will be an interesting lecture, and I don't think you risk to see your idea looted after 06.21. (And it's the best way to count how many submission came from EN-boarders, as soon as we know how many were received by WOTC : I'm quiet sure many of the future top 10  are known here)


----------



## Altmann

Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *
> I posted it via La Poste, because the express service (24 or 48 hours guaranted) cost 39 or 45 euro (roughly the same thing in US $)
> *




Btw, I noticed something funny : for a typical 20g submission, "priority" service costs 0.6 euro, while "regular" costs about 1 euro 



> *
> Last question : When will we start a thread to compare our submissions?
> *[/QUITE]
> 
> Feel free to start it...


----------



## Ashtal

*Question for AV, or other WotC guys re: Proposal*

[Edit: Ya, yah, I suck.    I said you could call me a dunce or a ninny at leisure, right!  I apologize.  And always be sure to read uber-uber-uber carefully.  I am lucky enough to have caught my exceptionally stupid error ahead of time.   Be sure to have your P's and Q's all in order!]

But if anyone can clarify this, that would be helpful, and could save me $10.    Calling me a dunce and a ninny is totally at your discretion as well.  


Ashtal


----------



## King_Stannis

i agree, ashtal. it's a great opportunity, but it seems that at times it's been a chinese fire drill on WotC's part. first, you don't need to label the sections. then i think that it got upgraded to "recommended". then the whole idea submission agreement and pdf or not to pdf, that was the question. what the hell was up with their legal department requiring BURNED cd's  with the pdf agreement? does that make sense in any way? i would think that that is just common sense.

if i didn't know better, i'd think it was a hastily put together program. but it is clearly not. seems to me like they put an unnecessarily quick deadline on this thing, though. sure, make the cutoff on friday, but give yourselves a little more time to read these things!

oh well, enough griping. it is a great opportunity, as i said, and i managed to navigate the maze of cryptic instructions and submit something. i'm glad i waited till this week, though, when the proverbial dust had settled.


----------



## SteveMND

> Which requirements are we dealing with? Why wasn't the 'name at the bottom left hand corner' mentioned in the above 5 requirements if it is indeed a specific requirement?




While I'll admit some aspects of this promotion have seemed to have been a little hasty, let's not pick on Wizards just because you failed to read the material properly. 

The fact that you had to have your name at the bottom left corner was very explicit from the beginning, and was documented on the Proposal Template that people were supposed to be following ("3. be structured in accord with the initial proposal template").

The version of the Template on the WotC website states very clearly: "7. Entrant [That's you. Your name must be typed in the lower left corner of the page and nowhere else.]"

And on the .doc file that was initially sent out by Wizards to sites such as ENWorld and others, on it's copy of the Template it also states clearly: "[Proposals should be no more than one page in length, typewritten. Please put the name of the entrant in the *LOWER LEFT-HAND CORNER* of the page and nowhere else.]" (original emphasis retained)

So it was there from the beginning, and very clear to boot.  I don't see how you missed it, frankly. 

Steve M


----------



## seasong

*Re: Question for AV, or other WotC guys re: Proposal*



			
				Ashtal said:
			
		

> *"First-Round -- One (1) Page Proposals
> 
> All initial proposals must:
> 
> ...
> 
> 3. be structured in accord with the initial proposal template;"
> 
> ...
> 
> Which requirements are we dealing with?  Why wasn't the 'name at the bottom left hand corner' mentioned in the above 5 requirements if it is indeed a specific requirement?
> 
> Ashtal *




(emphasis above added by me)

The initial proposal template includes your name, lower left corner, as item #7. If you do not use the template, you are not following directions.


----------



## Tallow

*Weigh In*

Ok, I've just finished my submission.  I've rewritten all the sections at least once.  Some twice.  I've edited.  I've had a friend edit it for me.  I've also had two folks read it for effect comments.  Such as, "Did it grab you?  What did you think?  Did it read well?  Would you be interested in knowing more?"  So right now I think I have a very good submission.  We will see what happens though.

815 words, Times New Roman, Justify aligned, single space between each section, name at the bottom left hand corner.

I'll be posting my submission on another thread after the 21st.  That way you all can see what I put together and comment on it.

Andy Christian


----------



## Mercule

Aloïsius said:
			
		

> *Last question : When will we start a thread to compare our submissions? It will be an interesting lecture, and I don't think you risk to see your idea looted after 06.21. *




I won't be doing _any_ public discussion of my idea until after I know I've been eliminated or have $100,000 in my pocket.

That's a really good way to get yourself DQed at any phase of this process, as it could influence the judges, technically.  Sure, it'd be work for them to track down the offenders, but if I were them and knew there was a thread discussing people's submissions, I'd be inclined to check the ten finalists against the thread before announcing them, just to be sure they could handle an NDA.


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: Question for AV, or other WotC guys re: Proposal*



			
				Ashtal said:
			
		

> *Alrighty - I sent my submission in yesterday, and I have been going over everything on the web (being the obsessive compulsive that I am). *




One question Ashtal: why'd you wait until _after_ sending the submission to go over everything on the web?

My chances just keep getting better! 

I know, I know...what a bastard I am...


----------



## slaughterj

Greybar said:
			
		

> *Three hole punch, eh?
> 
> That should be a good warning shot to people who are stretching the margins to the limits of their printers ability...
> 
> *



Yep, imagine how the 8pt font, .5" margin submissions will look then - words chopped off, and the rest are too small to bother reading! LOL

Not to mention the idiots who couldn't compact into at least 10pt font, 1" margins.  Should there be 1 that gets through, that person should be made to follow the same format for the larger submissions, i.e., have to crank out 20% more than the others!


----------



## Ashtal

You're chances are exactly the same - I'm sending it AGAIN, thank you very much. 

I thought I had gone through all the documentation, quite honestly.  I was going over it again out of boredom's sake.  Glad I did.

[I've removed my rant/freakout.  And off I go to the post office!]


----------



## Undead Pete

*Re: Luck*



			
				MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> *Did anyone else kiss their envelope for luck?
> 
> (If none of you did then mine will win for sure) *




You don't want to know what I did to my envelope


----------



## Writer@Large

> You don't want to know what I did to my envelope




As long as it didn't involve blood rites to the Elder Gods, I don't think WotC wil mind ...  

--Brian P. Hudson, OneShots.com Guy


----------



## Taren Nighteyes

*WOO WOO!*

Well, after much discussion and editing, my partner and I have finally sent our submission out.

Good luck to everyone, and may the "best" entries win!

Taren Nighteyes

P.S.  And we DID place our names in the lower lefthand corner, as stated in the instructions - unlike some other unnamed board moderator *cough* Ashtal *cough*


----------



## ghettognome

My final edit came to 666 words. I don't know how I should take that. If I had thought the check word count before printing it, I might have done something to change that.


----------



## Weeble

SteveMND said:
			
		

> *
> 
> While I'll admit some aspects of this promotion have seemed to have been a little hasty, let's not pick on Wizards just because you failed to read the material properly.
> 
> The fact that you had to have your name at the bottom left corner was very explicit from the beginning, and was documented on the Proposal Template that people were supposed to be following ("3. be structured in accord with the initial proposal template").
> 
> The version of the Template on the WotC website states very clearly: "7. Entrant [That's you. Your name must be typed in the lower left corner of the page and nowhere else.]"
> 
> And on the .doc file that was initially sent out by Wizards to sites such as ENWorld and others, on it's copy of the Template it also states clearly: "[Proposals should be no more than one page in length, typewritten. Please put the name of the entrant in the LOWER LEFT-HAND CORNER of the page and nowhere else.]" (original emphasis retained)
> 
> So it was there from the beginning, and very clear to boot.  I don't see how you missed it, frankly.
> 
> *




Actually, I don't think it was very clear, or at least mixed messages were sent out.  Should you put #7 in with your name after it, following suit with the other numbers with the exact same indentation, or should you put your name in the lower left hand corner farther to the left and separate from the other 6#'s?  The template I downloaded (I think from the main ENWorld site) didn't have a #7 on it.  Now, I know we need the original PDF from the Wizards site, but I think it is still vague.  On top of this, the #7 would have nothing to do with the setting, leaving one to think that your name should be separate, so that Wizards could separate it from the proposal.


----------



## Jon F. Zeigler

Two proposals, going out today. At least we won't have to wait long for the next stage. . .


----------



## SteveMND

I don't see where it could have been any clearer, Weeble.  Lower left-hand corner means lower left-hand corner, any way you look at it.

I think many of us are overanalyzing this whole thing.  I'm surprised no-one has asked exactly how far from the bottom left corner "lower left-hand" means.  An eighth-of-an-inch?  A quarter-of-an-inch?  Inline with the left margin, but all the way to bottom?  Etc., etc.

People, it's just the lower left-hand corner.   Zulkir has already stated that the earlier oddities that are not the fault of the submitters (such as not using the PDF version of the agreement) would not be counted against them.  Let's keep a little faith here that the folks at Wizards aren't complete zombies and have a little common sense, eh?  Following instructions is important, but I guarantee you that they are not going over the submissions with a little plastic ruler or anything measuring how far from the edge your name is printed. 

Steve M


----------



## Tallow

*Professionalism*



			
				SteveMND said:
			
		

> *I don't see where it could have been any clearer, Weeble.  Lower left-hand corner means lower left-hand corner, any way you look at it.
> 
> I think many of us are overanalyzing this whole thing.  I'm surprised no-one has asked exactly how far from the bottom left corner "lower left-hand" means.  An eighth-of-an-inch?  A quarter-of-an-inch?  Inline with the left margin, but all the way to bottom?  Etc., etc.
> 
> Steve M *




I remember seeing AV posting specifically that the paragraphs should be clearly labeled as the Template says.  However, he did say, he doesn't care if they are numbered, lettered, Titled without numbers, numbered without Titles, as long as its clear what section you are answering, and that they are in order.

I personally did a bullet numbering with bold faced titles for each section.  I also justified my alignment.  The reason I did that, is I think it makes for a more professional appearance, and I wasn't struggling for space to put words.  I went with the standard word 2000 margins too and 10 pt font.

But the main issue is professional appearance and readability.  They don't expect us to all be zombies and use an exact formulae for turning lead into gold here.  If it looks professional and its readable, its going to be ok.

Andy Christian


----------



## Jamie44

I did one entry last week and another this week. Everyone started talking about the # of words so i went back and checked.

They were both 460 exactly. Not sure what to make of that...they were both different and covered different things. 

Clearly there is a supernatural force at work here.


Anyway, I wish everyone good luck! =)


----------



## Ashtal

*Re: WOO WOO!*



			
				Taren Nighteyes said:
			
		

> *P.S.  And we DID place our names in the lower lefthand corner, as stated in the instructions - unlike some other unnamed board moderator *cough* Ashtal *cough* *




*shrug*

Better to make a mistake that I catch, than to make a mistake and have no idea it was made at all. 

I see now where I goofed, though.  In the original template that I printed out, the name in lower lefthand corner is listed as a paragraph after #1-6 of the proposal.  I gleefully and ignorantly missed the paragraph.  In the template proposal as it appears now on the Wizard's website, the name in lower lefthand corner is now #7, not separate.  

I also went in and added all the subheads, instead of just numbering, and tinkered with my answer to #6.  So, the package goes out again tonight, Xpress post, just be sure.


----------



## Telim Tor

*Word Count*

Does the Word Count even matter?


----------



## Zappo

*Re: Word Count*



			
				Telim Tor said:
			
		

> *Does the Word Count even matter? *



I don't think so. Readability is more like it. Anyway, font size and type and margins combined with the one page restriction naturally limit the word count. I have slightly more than 600 words but I know that anyone can read my submission and grasp the point in a couple of minutes. That's enough.


----------



## Balsamic Dragon

Done!  Printed, signed and in the envelope at 3:49, June 20!  

Mine comes out at 650 words, 11 pt. including headings and title 

I'm actually more excited about posting it to the boards than hearing from WOTC, as winning is a long shot for everyone.  Any idea when we can do this and if it is a good idea?

Apologies if someone has already asked this question, I've been a little busy and haven't had time to read 25 (!) pages of posts!

Balsamic Dragon


----------



## Rasyr

Balsamic Dragon said:
			
		

> *
> I'm actually more excited about posting it to the boards than hearing from WOTC, as winning is a long shot for everyone.  Any idea when we can do this and if it is a good idea?*




Well, personally, I would wait until after the entries for the next round have been selected. I know I am not posting anything until after then (i.e. after July 3rd).


----------



## Savage Wombat

Got mine out yesterday - 767 words, Times New Roman 11 pt., 1" margins.

If everyone's ideas are as much fun as mine, there should be a whole bunch of kick-ass campaigns in the next few months.

And by the way - aren't you enjoying how incredibly positive and supportive everyone on this board has been?  Good sports all around.


----------



## ghettognome

Balsamic Dragon said:
			
		

> *
> I'm actually more excited about posting it to the boards than hearing from WOTC, as winning is a long shot for everyone.  Any idea when we can do this and if it is a good idea?
> 
> Balsamic Dragon *





WOTC stated that they would have their 10 chosen by July 3rd, so I would assume that if you don't hear from them by then or soon after that it would be okay.


----------



## Weeble

SteveMND said:
			
		

> *I don't see where it could have been any clearer, Weeble.  Lower left-hand corner means lower left-hand corner, any way you look at it.
> 
> I think many of us are overanalyzing this whole thing.  I'm surprised no-one has asked exactly how far from the bottom left corner "lower left-hand" means.  An eighth-of-an-inch?  A quarter-of-an-inch?  Inline with the left margin, but all the way to bottom?  Etc., etc.
> 
> People, it's just the lower left-hand corner.   Zulkir has already stated that the earlier oddities that are not the fault of the submitters (such as not using the PDF version of the agreement) would not be counted against them.  Let's keep a little faith here that the folks at Wizards aren't complete zombies and have a little common sense, eh?  Following instructions is important, but I guarantee you that they are not going over the submissions with a little plastic ruler or anything measuring how far from the edge your name is printed.
> 
> Steve M *




So I'm gathering that wether you label it #7 or not, or wether it is further to the left than the main body or not, is ok.  Sorry for the inconvenience to you, but I'm not a type setter or news editor or even an english major.  It would just seem odd that both would be acceptable for the panel experts.  I guess I'm wrong in thinking there should be a format to this.


----------



## Tallow

*Format*



			
				Weeble said:
			
		

> *
> 
> So I'm gathering that wether you label it #7 or not, or wether it is further to the left than the main body or not, is ok.  Sorry for the inconvenience to you, but I'm not a type setter or news editor or even an english major.  It would just seem odd that both would be acceptable for the panel experts.  I guess I'm wrong in thinking there should be a format to this. *




There is a format you smart alec!  The format is to have 6 clearly labeled sections done in order, in a professional manner with your name at the bottom left hand corner of the page.  That's it.  That's the format.

If you can clearly label your sections with Jelly Stains, I'm sure it will be ok.  Good grief man!

Andy Christian


----------



## Weeble

*Re: Format*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> There is a format you smart alec!  The format is to have 6 clearly labeled sections done in order, in a professional manner with your name at the bottom left hand corner of the page.  That's it.  That's the format.
> 
> If you can clearly label your sections with Jelly Stains, I'm sure it will be ok.  Good grief man!
> 
> Andy Christian *




No annoying name-caller, look at the template on the site.  There are 7 clearly labeled sections that must be done in order, not 6.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Where/When to post*

I'm planning to post my 1 page as a seperate thread on the "Plots" message board, on July 4th. If we each did that we might crash the boards yet


----------



## Weeble

7. Entrant [That's you. Your name must be typed in the lower left corner of the page and nowhere else.]

  If all you had to do was have...

            #7. Name so-and-so

  Then why would they bother saying "Your name must be typed in the lower left corner of the page and nowhere else?"  Especially if you did them in order.  Wouldn't it already be in the lower left hand corner?  Or did they mean they want it slightly separate, so that when they view them blindly they can fold the names over easily?


----------



## Ashtal

*Re: Re: Format*



			
				Weeble said:
			
		

> *
> 
> No annoying name-caller, look at the template on the site.  There are 7 clearly labeled sections that must be done in order, not 6. *




He may be working with the sheet I had, printed out early on, which only has numbers 1-6 in the template, with the stiplulation about the name mentioned in a paragraph below.

*goes back to the corner with her Dunce Cap on*


Ashtal


----------



## Weeble

*Re: Re: Re: Format*



			
				Ashtal said:
			
		

> *
> 
> He may be working with the sheet I had, printed out early on, which only has numbers 1-6 in the template, with the stiplulation about the name mentioned in a paragraph below.
> 
> *goes back to the corner with her Dunce Cap on*
> 
> 
> Ashtal *




So you mean the one I mentioned in that earlier post?  The one we CAN'T use?


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Format*



			
				Weeble said:
			
		

> *
> 
> So you mean the one I mentioned in that earlier post?  The one we CAN'T use? *




Actually I'm refering to both of them.  They numbered the sections for our convenience so that we would know how many sections were needed, and/or steps were needed to complete a finished product.

All they wanted was 6 clearly labeled sections and your name at the bottom.  If you want to call the name section 7, then by all means do so, but that's just silly semantics and hits right to the point about you overanalyzing this.

The format is 6 clearly labeled sections and your name at the bottom.  That's it, its that simple.  Stop making it confusing.

Andy Christian


----------



## Weeble

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Format*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Actually I'm refering to both of them.  They numbered the sections for our convenience so that we would know how many sections were needed, and/or steps were needed to complete a finished product.
> 
> All they wanted was 6 clearly labeled sections and your name at the bottom.  If you want to call the name section 7, then by all means do so, but that's just silly semantics and hits right to the point about you overanalyzing this.*




Like I said earlier, look at the official template.



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> The format is 6 clearly labeled sections and your name at the bottom.  That's it, its that simple.  Stop making it confusing.
> 
> Andy Christian *




How am I making it confusing?  You are by giving people the wrong info.  There are 7 clearly labeled sections, not 6.


----------



## Ashtal

I guess so - my understanding was that the PDF of the Submission Agreement was to be used, not the Word document.  I have done so, even with the first ill-fated submission.

The template is changed.  The original has only 6 numbered questions, with a paragraph following saying, "put your name on the left-hand side on the bottom."  The new information on the web page has it as its own number, #7.  

I thought the Word/PDF thing was about something else entirely. If you have a contractual agreement, which the Submission Agreement is, in Word you can alter it before printing it.  You can't really do that with a PDF.  It never occured to me that the template of what was required would be changed, albeit minorly and regardless, it was still my boneheadedness that resulting in missing the "put your name on the left-hand side on the bottom" which appears in both, just in slightly different ways.  Again, I'm thankful I have the opportunity to correct my mistake. 

That said ... *whew* I hope the next time they do a contest like this, they release the rules, the files, whatever, in its final form FIRST.  My personal boneheadedness aside, having volumunous FAQs and tinkerings with the wording and such after the contest is announced does not make things clear.


----------



## reddist

Wow....

Open your header/footers, put your name in the footer, left justified, and you're done.

I mean really.

-Reddist


----------



## Weeble

(1)

"You must print out our PDF version of the submission agreement form. We cannot accept a printed version from another program (like MSWord)."


----------



## Tallow

Weeble said:
			
		

> *(1)
> 
> "You must print out our PDF version of the submission agreement form. We cannot accept a printed version from another program (like MSWord)." *




Ok, I'm not going to argue with you about this anymore, because you just aren't understanding what I'm saying and you are misquoting parts of what I've said.  You are arguing semantics.  Its that simple.  As for the PDF vs. Word documents... AV also said in a later post that Jenny in their legal department said either would be ok as long as they were unmodified.

The #7 from the WotC website is just a number.  You don't have to number it on your submission.  I've read and reread every single post in this entire thread.  Trust me.

Andy Christian


----------



## Weeble

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Trust me.
> 
> Andy Christian *




I do


----------



## Femerus the Gnecro

*Yer all idiots.*

I think it's time we all tapped a nice big keg of STFU 

-Femerus


----------



## seasong

*Re: Word Count*



			
				Telim Tor said:
			
		

> *Does the Word Count even matter? *




Absolutely. In fact, the Word Count is probably the central monster in the Psionic Vampires From Mars module (PVFM8-1)!

Oh, you weren't talking about the brain sucker.

In that case, no. What matters is that you have sufficient words to describe the setting, and sufficient font size to help the judges read the description. The exact balance between these two goals varies from submission to submission, with an absolute lower limit of Font Size = 10 and 0.75" margins (my personal guess, based on what I've seen on these boards).


----------



## Mercule

Savage Wombat said:
			
		

> *And by the way - aren't you enjoying how incredibly positive and supportive everyone on this board has been?  Good sports all around. *




Wonderfully so.  It definitely promotes a sense of community.


----------



## Heap Thaumaturgist

Well, sent mine out a few minutes ago.  5pm Eastern it will be on its way to the local distribution hub, to be put on a truck to the distribution hub closest to WotC.  

Agonized over it for the whole time.  Didn't finish it until about 2:30pm today, the day before the deadline for postmarking.  That means mine will be one of the last read.  I wanted to mail it tuesday, hitting about center-mass on the submissions flood.

All in all, not bad.  368 words, 1753 characters.  11pt Times New Roman with 1.5 line spacing, an extra line between each question.  

I typed each question verbatim from the website, numbered list, and dropped down, indented, and started typing.  Meaning there is alot of white space along the left side, with clear beginings and ends ... my usual submissions practice is to use a 12pt Courier New with double spacing.  When I edit, that's what I like to edit, so that's what I usually type in.  You can edit a 12pt double spaced courier document until the sun don't shine and still be able to read it.  Lots of useful whitespace.  Figured a vw font would be okay this time, though, and easier on the eyes for quick scans and no marking.

My only complaint is, with the indent, my ethos sentence was only three words onto a new line.  But, honestly, that's anal retentiveness to the extreme.  It just makes it look a little broken.

Each question got about four lines of text, two to three complex sentences.  This genre is, at its basis, a derivative art form.  I tried to cut away as much "fantasy stock" as I could, leaving only what was new and what was useful.  

Now I just sit back and wait for July 3.   I'll probably continue waiting on July 4 and 5 "just in case it's late in the mail and they misspelled my email address".  

--HT


----------



## EOL

As I'm sure many of you are I'm trying to estimate how many submissions WoTC will get.  The only really hard numbers I have are the number of views these threads have recieved:

Main thread (this one): 75,634
Submission FAQ Thread: 2.772

So which is a more accurate gauge?  Personally I would think that any serious submitter would take a look at the FAQ thread, probably multiple times (I know I've been there probably a half a dozen times) so let's say that on average the serious submitter looked at the FAQ thread three times, that would mean there are 924 serious submitters from enworld, how many total submissions does that make?  I'm guessing that enworlders represent about 1/4 of the total and that people have submitted an average of 1.5 submissions, this would give us 5544 total submissions.  Or pretty long odds, but you knew that already.

Thoughts?


----------



## Charwoman Gene

My submission is finally in. 

How much you want to bet that it is starting to look like the ending of Miracle on 34th Street at the WotC office?


----------



## Avatar_V

*Thanks*

I just wanted to thank everyone on this board for really helping guide me a lot with this submission. I've never visted EN World before this contest, but I found it when I was looking for information on the contest and it has been invaluable. I hadn't even considered that heroes might mean something other then 'prominent NPCs' before I saw the posts here. I also tend to be a pretty wordy fellow, so I was having trouble keeping the word count down and was playing with the idea of using size 8 font. Again, the posts here lead me to cut some stuff and make it 10. I just sent it in this afternoon and it ended up being 770-odd words, which I know is long but for me it's pretty good  . I'm amazed at the brevity some of you have been able to get; I don't think I could possibly explain my setting in any fewer words then I did! Oh well, thanks again for the help.


----------



## Zulkir

Writer@Large said:
			
		

> *
> 
> As long as it didn't involve blood rites to the Elder Gods, I don't think WotC wil mind ...
> 
> --Brian P. Hudson, OneShots.com Guy *




We are okay with that as well, we're big on religous tolerance.

AV


----------



## Zulkir

ghettognome said:
			
		

> *My final edit came to 666 words. I don't know how I should take that. If I had thought the check word count before printing it, I might have done something to change that.  *




Folks we have a winner! The real contest was to see who the first person was to send us a submission with exactly 666 words.

Woot! woot!

AV


----------



## NoOneofConsequence

*Re: Thanks*



			
				Avatar_V said:
			
		

> *I just wanted to thank everyone on this board for really helping guide me a lot with this submission. I've never visted EN World before this contest, but I found it when I was looking for information on the contest and it has been invaluable. *



*

I want to echo this sentiment.  The only problem for me is that I only came looking after I'd sent my submission off. Reading this thread - all 35+ pages - has been a most schizophrenic (sp?) experience. 

Zulkir's comments have been informative and really encouraging - especially since I managed to guess how to do everything right as far as they were concerned.

People who've written just 200 - 400 words scare me, because I was unable to be that concise.

People who've written 700+ words scare me because I didn't put that much information in mine (plus,  I've got no idea how you managed it).

For the record, mine came in at 563 words, 11pt Courrier New (my standard writing submission font) and I must say that I thought I was just on the verge of too dense.

Anyway, I wish you all well while at the same time hoping to be the one who actually makes it.*


----------



## fba827

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> We are okay with that as well, we're big on religous tolerance.
> 
> AV *




What are you doing away from your pile of submissions to read?  Back to your desk!  Back I say!

(I am SOOOOO kidding)


----------



## isirga eth

*ditto*

"Anyway, I wish you all well while at the same time hoping to be the one who actually makes it."

My, what a way to echo my sentiments exactly.  

Now Mr. Valterra, some questions if I may:

- suppose I mail my submission before june 21, BUT it arrives AFTER july 3... what happens to it?

- how many entries have you got by now? I don't see why it should be classified data...

- Why "Zulkir"?


----------



## Spike Y Jones

Jon F. Zeigler said:
			
		

> *Two proposals, going out today. At least we won't have to wait long for the next stage. . .  *




What he said.

Spike Y Jones, disappointed that he only self-edited down to 600 words each


----------



## mythusmage

Charwoman Gene said:
			
		

> *My submission is finally in.
> 
> How much you want to bet that it is starting to look like the ending of Miracle on 34th Street at the WotC office? *




I was thinking more along the lines of a reenactment of Noah's Flood, only with woodpulp instead of water.

BTW, do you get the feeling Zulkir has read one too many installments of, "Drizzt conquers the world and you get to be his best buds"?


----------



## Staffan

*Re: ditto*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *- Why "Zulkir"? *



"Zulkir" is the title of the rulers of Thay in the Forgotten Realms. There are eight of them, one for each school of magic.


----------



## dren

*my submission*

After sending in three different submissions, I can not believe how nervous I am about the choices I made. 

Trying to decide what not to include is sometimes harder then what to include... It's a challenge to think a given idea works because as the owner and DM, I know how to use it. But in someone else's hands, in another's reader's mind, if they don't 
get it...you've just lost your chance. And I truely think this is a once in a decade chance to get not just one idea published, but your unblemished, holistic view of your homebrew world published. I'm still excited and nervous thinking about this!!!

It's a balancing act between "originality" and being too "weird", cause WoTC has to worry about both the "core" audience, and potentially attracting new fans for the whole genre. I wish the good folks at WoTC luck trying to pick something that will satisfy our needs as gamers and their need for revenue.  

There may be plenty of D20 / D&D compatible stuff out there, but nothing beats a new hardcover TSR or WoTC RPG, and hear the spine on your book split as you wildly open it up and looking at the new races, monsters, spells and artwork... And the coolest thing in the world would be to see your name on the cover. (Screw the money...I just want to win this contest for that reason alone!!!!!!!!!!!) 

a hard-core gamer,
Dren


----------



## Ashwyn

I've been following this thread for a while now, and I just thought I'd weigh in on the word count thing. I have 339 words not including my name which I forgot to add. Guess I'll have to send it again. I hope it doesn't hurt my chances. Oh well. Good luck to everyone. And by the way, I just want to say how great I think it is that everyone is helping each other out. This is one of the main reasons I am into D&D in the first place: The friendship and camaraderie. I can't wait to see what happens.


----------



## Friadoc

You know,

...I'm curious - I know that the 10, or so, selectees are allowed to name themselves, if they so choose, but are they allowed to name their proposals too?

Also, after the initial narrowing down of settings, is the panel still blind?

Anyhow, my setting went out the 19th, 366 words that talks about 45 seconds to a minute to read if you're doing it to yourself at a moderate pace, or a minute to a minute and a half outloud.

Knock on wood, maybe I'll make it to the next round.

But, it would be kinda cool if, after the first part of the process was done, if the selectees would be allowed to post the one-pagers - that way we coudl see what 'caught the eyes' so to speak.


----------



## mirzabah

Friadoc said:
			
		

> *Also, after the initial narrowing down of settings, is the panel still blind?*



I can't see how they can expect a blind panel for the second and third rounds if the selectees are permitted to tell all and sundry that they have been selected to submit a 10-pager (WotC won't be publishing names, but will confirm if asked).

PS: 270 words and stomach full of butterflies


----------



## kingpaul

reddist said:
			
		

> *Open your header/footers, put your name in the footer, left justified, and you're done.*



That's all I did...made that part *really* easy.


----------



## kingpaul

Charwoman Gene said:
			
		

> *How much you want to bet that it is starting to look like the ending of Miracle on 34th Street at the WotC office? *



No bet...but your post reminds me that I want to buy both versions of that film...thanks.


----------



## Kibo

*Just a little heads up*

Some of you may or may not be aware, but this contest was also posted to Slashdot News for Nerds, Stuff that matters.  And while that in itself might not be interesting, the site boasts about a quarter million users from all walks of life, and all over the world.  And true to their tag line many of them play RPGs, in all their forms.  Many even fancy themselves writers.  

Now I'm not suggesting that there will be another 250k entrants, but certainly a few thousand more isn't unreasonable.  To say nothing of how many role-playing friends 250,000 nerds are likely to have. 

Too bad I didn't see it on CNN 


Toodles.


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: Just a little heads up*



			
				Kibo said:
			
		

> *Many even fancy themselves writers.*




I know I do.


----------



## Friadoc

*Re: Just a little heads up*



			
				Kibo said:
			
		

> [BNow I'm not suggesting that there will be another 250k entrants, but certainly a few thousand more isn't unreasonable.  To say nothing of how many role-playing friends 250,000 nerds are likely to have.
> 
> Too bad I didn't see it on CNN
> [/B]




Eh,

...I don't mind the competition, be it two hundred, two thousand, or two hundred thousand, in that it's something fun and enjoyable.

Of course, knowing a fair amount of slashdot readers, how many of them do you think submitted, but decided that the guidelines where a undue burden up their creative spirit, expressional freedom, or some off shoot of the latest electronic anti-piracy law.  

Yeah, the tongue is a bit to firmly in the cheek on that last bit, but I couldn't help it.

Seriously, I think it would be cool if a few hundred thousand people tried to be in the next ten - it'd be awesome.

However, I think a significant portion of them did the 'naw, I'll probably just lose' or 'people who write this stuff with a passion are gonna be doing it too, what chance do I have' type feelings.

One's worst enemy, for the sake of ambition, is one's fear of the same.


----------



## Artoomis

I submitted my entry postmarked Tuesday.

Finger and toes crossed....


----------



## Zappo

*Re: Re: Just a little heads up*



			
				Friadoc said:
			
		

> *However, I think a significant portion of them did the 'naw, I'll probably just lose' or 'people who write this stuff with a passion are gonna be doing it too, what chance do I have' type feelings.*



Well, to be honest I mostly had the same feelings. But I've decided that a ~0.1% chance to be in the top 10 and ~0.01% to win is much better than a lottery. So, if there are people playing lotteries...


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: Re: Re: Just a little heads up*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *Well, to be honest I mostly had the same feelings. But I've decided that a ~0.1% chance to be in the top 10 and ~0.01% to win is much better than a lottery. So, if there are people playing lotteries... *



I also thought, and still have the thought, that I have a snowball's chance in hell from achieving even the 1st round due to the professional writers that are in the fray...I'm an engineer by trade and traning.  But I submitted anyway.


----------



## Asathas

*Fed Ex has got my submissions*

Just sent in the three submissions on behalf of my partner.  They're off to Fed Ex now and should be at Wizards on Monday.  I'm nervous as hell and the other half just said that he's glad he didn't eat too late last night or he'd be puking about now from nerves.

All three in Times New Roman. Two at 10pt and one at 11pt.  Word counts at 693, 844, and 633.

Personally though I think I've figured out one of the reasons for this contest from Wizards...  It is one of the most intensive marketing studies ever done by an RPG company.  Think of the amount of data they can mine from the proposals.  Hmm... 1800 submissions had jungle themes... 900 had social consequences for magic use. Etc...

They've just gotten a perfect picture from the gaming community of exactly what we're interested in.  Interesting, no?


----------



## Mac Golden

*it's off*

Grand total of 289 words.

Mac Golden


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Well, I just mailed off all 5 of my entries.

Four of them clocked in at around 950 words at 10pt. Times New Roman.

The fifth had about 650 words at 11pt TNR.


I'm tired....... but confident.


----------



## Mac Golden

*it's off*

Grand total of 289 words.

Mac Golden


----------



## BigBastard

Well I sent out 2 settings one weighing in at 500+words the other around 450+words. I also sent in six bare bone settings that have 250+words. As in bare bones I mean I tried to get as much of the idea out in a few sentences. You have to figure the judges gauge the setting in the first few sentences, if it does not catch their eye then they move to the next setting. Just my opinion.


----------



## BigBastard

I still can not believe some people sent in submissions using an 8pnt font. I guess some people are true sadists . I could not imagine having to read a mountain of settings every day for several weeks.

My personal belief is that it would take more talent to get your setting told in a few words. Screw the fluff just get to the central point. Don't get me wrong one of my settings I used an 11pnt font for 584 words. The other six I sent were quick and to the point. I hope I was able to get the general idea of the setting. At least I made it easier on the judges.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

This was my thinking. If you have 100 pages of settings that are like Forgotten Relams but different and each page only has 300 words, how many are going to be near identicle?

I think the fluff is what is going to be the tie breakers. Your submission has to stand out somehow and I don't think it can do that with just a few sentences of "core" infomation.

Well, I guess its possible, but unlikely.


----------



## ghettognome

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Folks we have a winner! The real contest was to see who the first person was to send us a submission with exactly 666 words.
> 
> Woot! woot!
> 
> AV *




 *Bows Gracefully* (or at least as graceful as a gnome can be)


----------



## toberane

Well, I'm off to the post office with my submission.  ~700 words at 12 point Times New Roman type, with 1 inch margins.

Thanks to Zulkir and Parcher for their help and guidance in this thread!


----------



## Hakkenshi

*HUGE thanks.*

A great many thanks to Parcher and Zulkir for posting. This is actually my first post on these boards, but I've been following this topic from the start, and they've both been incredibly helpful.
Cheers, fellas, you've made this non-competitive selection process work! 
 

Good luck with the reading, and hopefully you'll find it interesting at the very least!


----------



## ghettognome

*Re: HUGE thanks.*



			
				Hakkenshi said:
			
		

> *.
> Cheers, fellas, you've made this contest work!
> 
> 
> *




except that this isn't a contest, this is an opportunity.


----------



## fett527

*Great Fun!*

This is my first post to ENWorld, this thread seems to have seen a lot of first time posts.  I mailed the entry for our team Wednesday.  I will echo the sentiments that this thread was the authoritative voice for the contest from the very beginning.  To everyone who gave input along the way, Thanks!  Especially Zulkir and Parcher.  If I had felt I could have contributed to the information being imparted I would have posted before this, but I felt it was better to keep the clutter to a minimum. Good luck to everyone!  I hope to find time to post more often.


----------



## Tallow

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> *This was my thinking. If you have 100 pages of settings that are like Forgotten Relams but different and each page only has 300 words, how many are going to be near identicle?
> 
> I think the fluff is what is going to be the tie breakers. Your submission has to stand out somehow and I don't think it can do that with just a few sentences of "core" infomation.
> 
> Well, I guess its possible, but unlikely. *




I agree with you here.  That's why I believe that the top 10 will be between 500 and 900 words.  Its one thing to belt out point for point in as little words as possible, but there is such a thing as being too concise.

The problem will come in that these concise papers will get lost in the quagmire of simplicity.  They will be overlooked for the 800 word ones that are written so well that despite the panel's overworked eye-strain migraines, they will want to continue reading them because they are so good, or so on the money with what they are looking for.

I wrote what I thought was my best work at 815 words.  If it isn't chosen, its not because of word count.  Its because the world didn't fit their criterea for something that could be merchandised easily.

I also think that those who sent in more than one submission will be at a loss, because they divided their creativity more than one direction.

Andy Christian


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> I also think that those who sent in more than one submission will be at a loss, because they divided their creativity more than one direction.
> 
> Andy Christian *




I think that depends on *WHY* more than one submission was entered.

I entered two very distinct worlds. The other three I entered where variations of those. They don't like the idea of Illithid invasion? How about demons? That sort of thing. Too much psionics? Well here is a version without them. 

I wanted to avoid this scenerio.

Anthony: "I would have picked this one, but it centers too much on psionics." *Trash*

Instead....

Anthony: "Hey! Here is that same great idea but without psionics!" *Into the good folder*.

See what I mean?


----------



## Voneth

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> I also think that those who sent in more than one submission will be at a loss, because they divided their creativity more than one direction.
> 
> Andy Christian *




Depends on how much creativity you have, I suppose. 

I can't agree on this point for a one page template. If the first round had been a 5 page or 10 page submission, then I would agree.


----------



## Weeble

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> 
> I also think that those who sent in more than one submission will be at a loss, because they divided their creativity more than one direction.
> 
> Andy Christian *




It also depends on wether or not you had other settings already fleshed out.


----------



## Jamie44

> That's why I believe that the top 10 will be between 500 and 900 words. Its one thing to belt out point for point in as little words as possible, but there is such a thing as being too concise.




This is possible, but I don't agree completely. A good writer can grab your attention with only a few words. I feel like this is what the 1st round is all about. Grab their attention and Make them interested in you.

Although I have to admit, the one thing I bug myself about is not having enough space to fully explain some of the things I said. But I just have to believe that what I did have room for was intriguing enough to make them want more.


----------



## Zappo

*Re: Great Fun!*



			
				fett527 said:
			
		

> *This is my first post to ENWorld, this thread seems to have seen a lot of first time posts.  I mailed the entry for our team Wednesday.  I will echo the sentiments that this thread was the authoritative voice for the contest from the very beginning.  To everyone who gave input along the way, Thanks!  Especially Zulkir and Parcher.  If I had felt I could have contributed to the information being imparted I would have posted before this, but I felt it was better to keep the clutter to a minimum. Good luck to everyone!  I hope to find time to post more often. *



Welcome to the boards!


----------



## seasong

Tallow said:
			
		

> *I agree with you here.  That's why I believe that the top 10 will be between 500 and 900 words.  Its one thing to belt out point for point in as little words as possible, but there is such a thing as being too concise.*




I think I've said this before, but... 

Different ideas will have different ideal word ranges. To use some real world examples, Athas would probably sit fairly well at 400-500, with a heavy emphasis in questions #1 and #5. Ravenloft could easily be proposed with 300 words or less, mostly in #1 and #2. DragonLance would want 600+, mostly in #2, #5 and #6. Talislanta would probably require 750-900 words, and it would be real painful to pare it down to that few.

The trick is getting the right word range, and then making _that_ as readable as possible.


----------



## Tallow

Jamie44 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This is possible, but I don't agree completely. A good writer can grab your attention with only a few words. I feel like this is what the 1st round is all about. Grab their attention and Make them interested in you.
> 
> Although I have to admit, the one thing I bug myself about is not having enough space to fully explain some of the things I said. But I just have to believe that what I did have room for was intriguing enough to make them want more. *




In one way I agree, in another I don't.  Being concise and capturing the interest of someone with as few words as possible is a quality a good writer needs to publish.  But if in being concise, I can put twice the information than I could if I was ridiculously wordy, why not use the space I was given?

I was given a full page.  If I can't find the words to fill that page, why should I be chosen?  Good writer or not.  Journalists often have to fill 500 or 1000 or more word blocks for stories.  So if they have a crap load of information, the conciseness becomes necessary.  If they have very little info and need to fill 500 words, they gotta become creative with how they write.

The point is, I wrote a very poignant and concise submission (at least I think so, and my editors think so too).  But I filled the page and wrote 815 words, not because I had to, to convey my idea, but because I could, to add more flavor to capture more imagination.

They gave me a yard, so I took a yard.  Why take only a foot or an inch when you have 3 feet to work with?

Andy Christian


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Tallow said:
			
		

> *
> The point is, I wrote a very poignant and concise submission (at least I think so, and my editors think so too).  But I filled the page and wrote 815 words, not because I had to, to convey my idea, but because I could, to add more flavor to capture more imagination.
> 
> They gave me a yard, so I took a yard.  Why take only a foot or an inch when you have 3 feet to work with?
> 
> Andy Christian *




Ditto! My thoughts exactly.


----------



## Hakkenshi

> quote:
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> Originally posted by Hakkenshi
> .
> Cheers, fellas, you've made this contest work!
> 
> 
> 
> --------------------------------------------------------------------------------
> 
> 
> 
> except that this isn't a contest, this is an opportunity.




Pursuant to your correction of my above statement, I have altered my statement to use the term "non-competitive selection process". I hope this satisfies your desire for exact wording.

What happened to "It's the thought that counts?" 
I don't think either Zulkir or Parcher will take my thanks amiss because I called it a contest. Besides, since this "opportunity" includes submissions by many in order to be chosen above all others, I'd say it IS a contest, albeit one which provides, as you said, a great opportunity for a great many people.

So, to reiterate, thanks to all the WotC people (including those behind the scenes who don't post on the boards) who gave, or are giving, their time for this opportunity/contest.


----------



## fett527

Jamie44 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This is possible, but I don't agree completely. A good writer can grab your attention with only a few words. I feel like this is what the 1st round is all about. Grab their attention and Make them interested in you.
> 
> *




I think "only a few words" is relative to the material.  No one knows what anybody else's ideas are and whether or not it takes 300 words or 800 words to describe them succinctly.  Our team felt we needed closer to the 800 mark.  We firmly believe that's what it took to get our core ideas across while someone else could be just as effective with 300 words for their idea.  It really comes down to the fact that it will be an agonizing next two weeks not only waiting to find out if we made it to the next round but also to view some of the first round submissions.


Thanks for the welcome Zappo!


----------



## Tallow

seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think I've said this before, but...
> 
> Different ideas will have different ideal word ranges. To use some real world examples, Athas would probably sit fairly well at 400-500, with a heavy emphasis in questions #1 and #5. Ravenloft could easily be proposed with 300 words or less, mostly in #1 and #2. DragonLance would want 600+, mostly in #2, #5 and #6. Talislanta would probably require 750-900 words, and it would be real painful to pare it down to that few.
> 
> The trick is getting the right word range, and then making that as readable as possible. *




Very true!  I agree with you completely on this one.  But I will go one step further.  I am not so sure that they are looking for Athas or Ravenloft (in the context of marketability and scope of the world in what is available for the average consumer).  Athas and Ravenloft, while very interesting and intriguing, were rather one, maybe two dimensional on the story lines available.  No matter whether you did the Dragon adventure, or the Merchant one, or whatever, you were constantly dealing with the desert in some fashion.  In Ravenloft, the one dimension came with horror.  You were constantly dealing with some form or other of some dark lord.  Yes, I know a creative DM could come up with 9 billion ideas in either world.  I was one of them.  But I couldn't help but feel a little oppressed by the limited options that the environments of the worlds provided.  Not much option for extreme long term, varied story lines.

Forgottem Realms, Greyhawk, and to some extent Dragonlance, Kalamar, and Talislanta had ALOT of options.  They had almost every single type of topography, environment, climate, etc. to adventure in.  The increase in types of geography also increase the kinds of cultures and monsters, and adventures exponentially.  That  is why I think the better world, or rather the worlds chosen for the top 10, will have a larger and more complex scope, thus needing the 800 word one pager.  

One thing I almost don't agree with myself on is this... Many people don't know how to be concise with complicated concepts and end up writing circles around them.  By the time they come to the point, I'm already 3 submissions beyond theirs.  Also some complex ideas are so "out there", the marketability is just as bad as the limited worlds.

Does this mean that everything has to be the same?  No.  Unique? No.  It just means that there has to be options for every consumer in the world.  To do that, simple, linear, and limited concepts don't work.  Athas failed because the consumer base was maybe 10% of Forgotten Realms.  Sure the fans of Athas were rabid in their fanaticalism, but TSR was losing money on printing it and Wizards of the Coast viewed it as a mistake in the first place, so never brought it back.  The consumer base was just too small.

If you want to support a TCG, its likely you need some very clear, and defined factions in your world.  So you need to have some sort of dichotomy, political parties, countries, domains, etc.  Without the multilevel diverseness, there is no conflict to support a TCG based on an actual storyline (i.e. LotR, Game of Thrones, etc.).

If you want to support miniatures, you need two things.  Strong archetypal character races and the propensity for either tactical (small unit) or strategic (army) battles.  This nearly goes hand in hand with the TCG idea of needing factions to fight one another.

If you want to support a Campaign world, you need vast amounts of variety across every possible scale you can come up with (geography, climate, culture, political styles, evil, good, etc.).  You also need a good story line and strong history to allow for interesting iconic characters (Elminster, Raislin, Mordenkainen, etc.).

If you want to support novels, you not only need all the stuff from the Campaign world, but you need a world that supports strong, excellent story lines.  This needs multi-layer level of complexities, so that the reader doesn't feel like he's reading Dick fights Jane, Jane kills Dick, Dick's dog hunts Jane, etc.

So that's my theory.  To interest the most people and make this new world ultimately marketable and merchandisable, you need levels of complexity that I doubt can be conveyed in 200 words.  The ideas you portray in that level of complexity, in 200 words, will be SO vague, that the teasers will mean little and the panelists will say, "Ok, this might be what we are looking for, and might be interesting, but its so ambiguous, do I really know what the guy is trying to say here?"  If you take your 200 concise words, expand on the points a little, you can easily make a concise 800 page paper with more punch. Boxing Analogy here... Jab, Jab, Jab, Left Cross, Uppercut, jab jab jab.  Do that 6 times and you have an 800 word paper.  Jab six times, you have a 200 word paper.  Which is more interesting?  I prefer to watch boxing matches with alot of action and good technical boxing.

Andy Christian


----------



## River

Well I just posted my 634 words of distilled role-playing goodness off to  WOTC.  Each of those words analysed, observed and sweated over.  

My original plan was to submitt 3 worlds, but I found 1 was hard enough to give proper attention to.


River


----------



## Tallow

*Multiple Submissions*

For those who have multiple worlds already fleshed out, then drawing up multiple submissions was probably a good idea.  I only have one world fleshed out, so I only did up one submission.  My comments were more towards those who made up multiple worlds over the last month.  I doubt they are going to work.

Andy Christian


----------



## Zappo

Tallow said:
			
		

> *If you want to support a TCG, its likely you need some very clear, and defined factions in your world.  So you need to have some sort of dichotomy, political parties, countries, domains, etc.  Without the multilevel diverseness, there is no conflict to support a TCG based on an actual storyline (i.e. LotR, Game of Thrones, etc.).
> 
> If you want to support miniatures, you need two things.  Strong archetypal character races and the propensity for either tactical (small unit) or strategic (army) battles.  This nearly goes hand in hand with the TCG idea of needing factions to fight one another.
> 
> If you want to support a Campaign world, you need vast amounts of variety across every possible scale you can come up with (geography, climate, culture, political styles, evil, good, etc.).  You also need a good story line and strong history to allow for interesting iconic characters (Elminster, Raislin, Mordenkainen, etc.).
> 
> If you want to support novels, you not only need all the stuff from the Campaign world, but you need a world that supports strong, excellent story lines.  This needs multi-layer level of complexities, so that the reader doesn't feel like he's reading Dick fights Jane, Jane kills Dick, Dick's dog hunts Jane, etc.*



That's one of the things I've been thinking through for my submission. I reckon a setting which has room for RPGs, TCGs, miniature games and novels will score more points than one which lacks one or more of these requisites.


----------



## Tallow

Zappo said:
			
		

> *That's one of the things I've been thinking through for my submission. I reckon a setting which has room for RPGs, TCGs, miniature games and novels will score more points than one which lacks one or more of these requisites. *




I think its a good thing you were keeping in mind while writing your submission.  Alot of the people submitting, I believe, lost sight of the merchandising and marketability requisites that were stated on the proposal idea rules and information document.  They were trying to be so creative and concise at the same time, they forgot about the level of complexity needed to support maximum marketability for the largest common denominator of consumer base.

Andy Christian


----------



## Zappo

*Re: Multiple Submissions*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *For those who have multiple worlds already fleshed out, then drawing up multiple submissions was probably a good idea.  I only have one world fleshed out, so I only did up one submission.  My comments were more towards those who made up multiple worlds over the last month.  I doubt they are going to work.*



I've been tempted to send multiple variants of the same world, for the reasons Ashrem pointed out. What if WotC doesn't like this or that aspect - if I could talk with someone, I'm sure I could fit the setting details to better suit them. But this is a hit-or-miss thing. You don't get a letter stating "Cool, except that..." with an option to modify and resubmit.

Eventually, I decided that it was probably not worth the effort and that if I was a reviewer I would really, _really_ hate anyone who did that.


----------



## Xeriar

River said:
			
		

> *Well I just posted my 634 words of distilled role-playing goodness off to  WOTC.  Each of those words analysed, observed and sweated over.
> 
> My original plan was to submitt 3 worlds, but I found 1 was hard enough to give proper attention to.
> 
> River *




Ditto here.  I even outlined one truely unique setting, but my original one sucked in all the work.

The result is a very polished submission, however.  I think they are looking for a few things:

1: Unique.  If you could take your submission, change the names and drop it in FR or DL, would it still make sense?  You do not want a 'yes' answer here.

2: Compulsive.  Does your setting evoke a sense of wonder?  Ie, you need to make them want to know more.  That is the entire point of this contest.

3: Writing Ability.  Size counts for a little, but it's shivers per word, not words per page, that is the real deciding factor.  I mean, I sincerely hope no one actually wrote 'heroes battle villians' anywhere


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: Multiple Submissions*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *I've been tempted to send multiple variants of the same world, for the reasons Ashrem pointed out. What if WotC doesn't like this or that aspect - if I could talk with someone, I'm sure I could fit the setting details to better suit them. But this is a hit-or-miss thing. You don't get a letter stating "Cool, except that..." with an option to modify and resubmit.
> 
> Eventually, I decided that it was probably not worth the effort and that if I was a reviewer I would really, really hate anyone who did that.  *




I usually have an incredibly good memory.  Even when reading through an extreme, tedious amount of similar detritus.  I know for a fact I'd notice similar worlds, and would probably gloss over the new submission with the thought, "I already read this one," ... scanning... "nope, nothing different, see ya!"  

Ultimately, it may decide between all those worlds "on the bubble" whether they like Psionics, or a world based on the fungus of Monkey Toes, or whatever, but if your world is good enough, I doubt they will can it simply because they would rather change a simple aspect.  That is stuff that can be revised in later editions (10 page treatement, 100 page bible).

Andy Christian


----------



## Tallow

Xeriar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Ditto here.  I even outlined one truely unique setting, but my original one sucked in all the work.
> 
> The result is a very polished submission, however.  I think they are looking for a few things:
> 
> 1: Unique.  If you could take your submission, change the names and drop it in FR or DL, would it still make sense?  You do not want a 'yes' answer here.
> 
> 2: Compulsive.  Does your setting evoke a sense of wonder?  Ie, you need to make them want to know more.  That is the entire point of this contest.
> 
> 3: Writing Ability.  Size counts for a little, but it's shivers per word, not words per page, that is the real deciding factor.  I mean, I sincerely hope no one actually wrote 'heroes battle villians' anywhere  *




Bingo!

I'd rather have 800 Shivers than 200!

Andy Christian


----------



## ashockney

*2 submissions*

I've sent in two submissions.  One was 750 words, the second was 480 words.  I had ideas for four or five worlds, and simply didn't have the time to do them all justice.  Kudos to those that made the time to do so!

I also want to thank Zulkir, and the many posters on this thread, for your words of encouragement and advice throughout the process.  

I am personally energized by the outcome of this project, and can't wait to see what Wizards, and other gaming companies, will do with such a huge opportunity.

Good luck to everyone!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

*Re: Re: Multiple Submissions*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *..... if I was a reviewer I would really, really hate anyone who did that.  *




Which is why I sent them in multiple envelopes.  

Hopefully, they will read about 50 or so entries between each of mine.


----------



## Hakkenshi

*Exactly*



> Eventually, I decided that it was probably not worth the effort and that if I was a reviewer I would really, really hate anyone who did that.




That's entirely true.  The people reading the submissions aren't stupid.  If they see the same setting, same names, same features, but just treated differently, they'll notice and probably won't appreciate it too much.  Of course, that's not the case if both your entries go to different judges, but do you want to risk getting eliminated for annoyance factor?


----------



## MythicJustice

*Can't find it in the FAQ so...*

I havn't seen this question answered in the FAQ or in the thread. Is it ok to put the name of the setting at the top of the page?

-Chad


----------



## reddist

*Hey Tallow *

For someone with such an extraordinarily high opinion of your writing and editing abilities, you've used the #word "alot" at least three times in the last two or three posts  Its "a lot," two words, dude


Note that the extensive use of the s indicates light-hearted teasing....

-Reddist


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Hey Tallow *



			
				reddist said:
			
		

> *For someone with such an extraordinarily high opinion of your writing and editing abilities, you've used the #word "alot" at least three times in the last two or three posts  Its "a lot," two words, dude
> 
> 
> Note that the extensive use of the s indicates light-hearted teasing....
> 
> -Reddist *




<CHUCKLE> Touche... FYI, when I write to message boards and chat rooms, I often type as I think.  The use of alot is just because that's how my mind processes it into text.  When I edit and spell-check I do change those little idiosyncracies of mine.

But anyway, good point.

Andy Christian


----------



## uberkitty

*Re: Exactly*



			
				Hakkenshi said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Of course, that's not the case if both your entries go to different judges, but do you want to risk getting eliminated for annoyance factor?  *




How many judges see each proposal, I wonder?  At some point, AV mentioned copies being made of each proposal which get put in binders for the judges.  The impression I got was that each judge gets a binder (or many, many binders) containing the same proposals all the other judges get.  I can't imagine that they have the time for every judge to see every proposal, though.  So how does it work?  AV, can you answer this?


----------



## seasong

> _Originally posted by Tallow _
> *Very true!  I agree with you completely on this one.  But I will go one step further.  I am not so sure that they are looking for Athas or Ravenloft (in the context of marketability and scope of the world in what is available for the average consumer).  Athas and Ravenloft, while very interesting and intriguing, were rather one, maybe two dimensional on the story lines available.*




Hm. Unfortunately, the specific points I want to bring up, are the point specific to my submission.  

I'll try it this way: a world which provides a structure for a lot of options, does not have to include more than a smattering of those options to show how the structure works.

Actually, I could summarize Forgotten Realms in about 400 words, no problem. The wonderful thing about FR isn't the Wizards of Thay or any specific place, it's the fact that you can easily insert anything you want into the background setting.


----------



## Troll's Choice

Forgive me if someone's already answered this, but what if I accidentily put the Submission agreement at the bottom instead of at the top? I'm honestly not sure whether I put it at the top or bottom. Is that relevant? Will I be disqualified for putting it at the bottom, even though I've written it properly, signed everything, have my cover letter and all that?

If the Submission Agreement is at the bottom, am I DOOMED?

Anyone know?


----------



## Dr. Harry

Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> We are okay with that as well, we're big on religous tolerance.
> 
> AV *




  As long as the Blood Rites to the Elder gods use the d20 version of the CoC rules ...  (joke)

   My wife and I each sent ours out Wednesday, she was at about 400 words, and I was at 480.  I chose now to register because I found out about the contest on Enworkd, so I wanted to contribute to the count.   Going through the boards (36 pages when I found them) was invaluable.

   Hmmm... almost 4:30 here, I just had an image of someone desperately driving west to a time zone with open post offices ... to mail in their six-page submission.

              Harry


----------



## Jon F. Zeigler

Tallow said:
			
		

> *I think its a good thing you were keeping in mind while writing your submission.  Alot of the people submitting, I believe, lost sight of the merchandising and marketability requisites that were stated on the proposal idea rules and information document.  They were trying to be so creative and concise at the same time, they forgot about the level of complexity needed to support maximum marketability for the largest common denominator of consumer base.*




Precisely so.

I ended up sending the same setting in twice. Sent it in once, came here, read more of Anthony's comments, thought about it, saw more marketing angles, rewrote it almost from scratch and sent it in again.


----------



## MythicJustice

*Re: Can't find it in the FAQ so...*



			
				MythicJustice said:
			
		

> *I havn't seen this question answered in the FAQ or in the thread. Is it ok to put the name of the setting at the top of the page?
> 
> -Chad *




Haha. To answer my own question:


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Exar 
Greetings all-

I'll be submitting an idea, too, but here is my question to Zulkir: If it fits on the one page of the submission, is some eycatching art acceptable? I am a graphic designer and I have created a simple but effective logo for my setting and placed it at the top of the page as if it were a letterhead. Is this okay, or discouraged?

Thanks for your time, and for making yourself available to answer our questions.

-Exar 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



This is fine.

AV


----------



## JohnIadarola

*Finally registered*

Finally registered after following this thread from the beginning. Also just sent out my submission, getting to the post office like five minutes before it closed. (Had a very chaotic period trying to find a piece of blank white paper so I could add in 7. Entrant) 

Thanks everyone for all the help... I look forward to everyone posting their one pages in a few weeks, I know I will


----------



## Weeble

*Re: Finally registered*



			
				JohnIadarola said:
			
		

> *(Had a very chaotic period trying to find a piece of blank white paper so I could add in 7. Entrant)
> *




Was that blank white paper a second page?  Or did you put your name on the first page?


----------



## Zappo

Dr. Harry said:
			
		

> *Hmmm... almost 4:30 here, I just had an image of someone desperately driving west to a time zone with open post offices ... to mail in their six-page submission. *



Hmmm... maybe if I quickly rent a jet and fly to Japan I am still in time...

...nah, I have better chances forging the postal stamp.


----------



## Ashwyn

*Aw, fiddlesticks*

Well, I just wanted to let you all know you probably have one less person to worry about. My printer decided that today was the right time to run out of ink. Too bad I don't know how to hand-write Times New Roman.


----------



## JohnIadarola

I had already printed out one with my name at the bottom, but just as I was going to leave for the post office I noticed that the name had to be in a labeled section, so I had to make a quick change and reprint it. Trust me, its all on one page


----------



## Zappo

Huh. I had already sent mine before this whole "name as #7" stuff came out. I've just printed and handwritten my name in the lower-left corner. I suppose it will be fine all the same.


----------



## Samothdm

*My Proposal*

I'm a first time poster on these boards, and would like to thank everyone for being so open to share their ideas as to what would constitute a "good" proposal.

Because everyone seems concerned over this subject: 

* 819 words
* single spaced
* 10 point Times New Roman
* one line between sections
* title in 16 point type
* name in the footer in the lower left-hand corner (NOT "labeled" or "numbered")
* wider margin (1.2") on left-hand side to account for three-hole punching


----------



## JohnIadarola

Just incase anyone is curious...

* 408 words
* single spaced
* 12 point Times New Roman
* one line between sections
* title and section names in 14 point type
* name in the lower left-hand corner (labeled as 7. Entrant  -  John Iadarola)
* margins of  (1.2") on both sides

I kept the word count down partially because mine will be coming in fairly late in the reading, and I figure they'll be looking for ease of reading above most other criteria at that point.


----------



## your father is

*re: another virgin poster*

Sent mine last week--from Canada--so it should be arriving about now.  It is 800-or-so words (and I included my name in the right place and everything).  Following this thread definitely helped me focus my ideas.  Thank you all.

  I've sampled a few TSR/WotC novels over the years but I always found them dreadful.  Passive voice, spelling errors, and everything that causes me--as a reader and a writer--pain.  Maybe I just hit the bad ones.

  I will definitely be checking out this new world (especially if it's mine ).  I think this is a great chance for WotC to broaden its audience and I hope they put out a quality product.  Healthy game tie-ins means a healthier genre, in my opinion.

  Everyone who sent in a proposal is a winner, in my view.  A lot of great games are going to come out of this, and maybe some stories and novels too.

  ------
  "Around the survivors a perimeter create."


----------



## Weeble

*Re: re: another virgin poster*



			
				your father is said:
			
		

> *
> I've sampled a few TSR/WotC novels over the years but I always found them dreadful.  Passive voice, spelling errors, and everything that causes me--as a reader and a writer--pain.  Maybe I just hit the bad ones.*




I will second that



			
				your father is said:
			
		

> *
> I will definitely be checking out this new world (especially if it's mine ).  I think this is a great chance for WotC to broaden its audience and I hope they put out a quality product.  Healthy game tie-ins means a healthier genre, in my opinion.
> 
> *




It's also a great way for WotC to get everyone who was interested in the proposal "contest" to be interested in the winning setting.


----------



## your father is

Weeble said:
			
		

> *It's also a great way for WotC to get everyone who was interested in the proposal "contest" to be interested in the winning setting. *




  Yes.  Everyone wins here, except maybe WotC's poor admin.  Or maybe she enjoys the infamy and overtime.

  -----

  "Much to learn you still have."


----------



## Jubelo

I sent mine off today.  It weighed in at 516 words, which seems about average.

Thanks to all of you who posted helpful comments, especially Zulkir and Parcher.

Good luck to all  

Jon


----------



## NemesisPress

Don't forget - if your reviewer happens to have heartburn from days of eating cold pizza when he/she is getting to your part of the stack - or if the admin spills diet coke on your inkjet original - it's all over.


----------



## gregweller

From the USPS site:

Your item was delivered at 8:18 am on June 21, 2002 in RENTON, WA 98057. 

So now I get to suffer the agonies of the damned until they announce the winners.


----------



## Matt Black

*colour vs compact*

I'm curious about how other people balanced 'flavour text' with straightforward explanations.
 Our team used a lot of examples when answering the questions, which allowed us to sneak in cool 
place and character names, and to hint at the types of scenario possible in our world. This also 
allowed us to demonstrate our creative writing style (which we hope is a good thing). In the 
end I think we achieved the right balance of flavour and explanation. Of course, it took us 
870 words to do so.

So were you terse and didactic? Or did you go for a more colourful approach?

MB


----------



## kafka47

*My submission*

Single, team-based submission.
 10 pt Verdana font.
 435 words.
 Many pizzas consumed.

 I sent our proposal in this morning, after a grueling two weeks effort. 

 The amount of material we produced easily exceeded a ten-page overview, minus throwaway. 

 We were fairly economical with our descriptions. We stuck to the essence of our world, rather than the fine details. Initally, we designed based upon physical assumptions about the planet, which produced plen-ty of ideas. It all became quite natural after that point, and we enjoyed ourselves immensely.

 I was extremely fortunate to have discovered this message board in the interim. The comments and the banter made us feel like we weren't alone in our efforts. Unfortunately, that may be our downfall : we're altogether not alone enough! 

 

 All told, if we were selected for the ten-pager, that would be enough. The money isn't the most important thing. The process and the professional validation would be all the reward we'd need. Plus, witnessing how the D&D community has SPRUNG TO LIFE is very much worth any effort we've expended thus far.

 Kudos, and good luck to all.
 /Craig

P.S. I don't believe any harm would come for people who started to post their Ethos statements, just as teasers and for comparison. Thoughts?


----------



## your father is

*ethos*



			
				kafka47 said:
			
		

> *P.S. I don't believe any harm would come for people who started to post their Ethos statements, just as teasers and for comparison.*




  "A world where heroes battle length restrictions with magic and skill to propose interesting new settings."

  -----

  "Is Darth Vader my father?"


----------



## Fast Learner

*Finally Off*

I sent mine four hours ago, just 10 minutes under the wire (though I had a backup plan, as my fiancee's company has a postage meter I could have used in the next 3 hours). For me it wasn't so much polishing (though I did some of that certainly); rather, it was letting those last couple of details come in from the aether to finish off the ideas.

Since everybody's doing it (yes, I'd jump off a cliff, I suppose):

580 words
11 pt Goudy Old Style
12 pt Arial Bold headers

It was a fun exercise in editing down material. When I had narrowed it down to an 800-word outline  I was pretty pleased, but probably needless to say such an outline can easily fill 10 pages, so it was still a challenge.

I didn't go for flavor text. I thought about it quite a bit, and decided against it, but, if I'm not selected, I'll never know if it would have made the difference. (If I am...  )


----------



## Morgenstern

*What are people actually writing?*

I have the weirdest sensation that people were largely writing stuff that is far, far away from the point of this exercise... The questions that the template asks aren't "tell us about your world" questions IMO, but "so what does the ad-copy for this product line look like?" With potentially thousands of entries pouring in, hearing "gamer war stories", even in 1-page miniature, sounds like pure hell. I'll be highly curious as to what the surviving 1-pagers look like, whether they are predominently descriptive of the setting, or point out "this writer can spin some new ideas together and has a feel for what will sell..." With a 1-page forum, geography (unless bizare), history, named iconics and lots of other details that a person whose already developed and run in that world would have at their fingertips seem... superfluous. That will all be well and good at the 10-page mark .

Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?

Oh, and mine was 750 words .


----------



## Altmann

*Re: colour vs compact*



			
				Matt Black said:
			
		

> *
> So were you terse and didactic? Or did you go for a more colourful approach?
> *




Colourful, definitely colourful.


----------



## Zappo

*Re: Re: colour vs compact*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *Colourful, definitely colourful. *



Don't tell me... you've used a different color for each paragraph? Sentence? Word? Letter? Or did you use multi-colored fonts? I'm sure the reviewers will sooooo like it!!


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?*



My 1st draft only focused on the world.  After friends and family butchered it, I did some revisions to make it more marketable.  And I weighed in @ 426 words, 10 pt Times New Roman, 1.5 spacing.


----------



## Mirth

Thanks to everyone for this thread. Especially Anthony et al. from Wizards. I would never even have known about this contest if it hadn't been for enworld.org and I would have been completely stumped as to how to approach it without the advice of the Wizards staff and the fine people on these boards. (Special shout-outs go to Clark for the ethos sentence examples, Daniel (Asheville in the house! Woot Woot!) for some early funny comments that put me at ease and to Ryand from gamingreport.com for some excellent insider advice.)

For those keeping score: My two proposals went out yesterday afternoon via priority mail w/ delivery confirmation. Word count on each was ~750. Used 10 pt. Times w/ 1" margins. Numbered questions were bolded on a line by themselves, answers began on the next line in plain text with no indentations. One line break seperated each answer from the next numbered question. My name was number 7 and I put it on the last line I could without jumping to the next page. Cover letter was simply labeled and included name, address, phone, fax, email and nothing else. Color was added in small doses. I don't think I stretched myself too thin by submitting two ideas. One was story driven like DL and the other was setting driven like FR and GH. ( I think this paragraph was longer than some of the ones in my proposal, ha ha.)

I did the right thing and called all of my old gamer friends to let them know about the contest (that's right, I said contest). None of them knew about it. I wonder how many people are entirely clueless about this, and I thought about the guy who comes back from vacation today and checks the boards only to find out that the last day was Friday. Och! I think the quick turnaround of the first submissions will limit the competition in a good way. I'm 34  and have been gaming since 1979 and this is the first time that I've ever submitted an idea. It felt really good to work those old creative juices for all that they were worth. Even if I don't win, I still have some great settings to work with (although I haven't really found anyone to game with where I am - SUCKS).

Good luck to everyone and I'll definitely be posting my proposals here after July 3rd,

Jay


----------



## Zappo

Have you all voted here? C'mon, help Yuan-Ti make a decent statistic.


----------



## damnit!

Savage Wombat said:
			
		

> *And by the way - aren't you enjoying how incredibly positive and supportive everyone on this board has been?  Good sports all around. *




I'm quite surprised.  In addition to the guys from WotC who have taken the time to answer our questions (which is greatly appreciated by many here!), alot of members have made very helpful suggestions, even though they knew it would make the competition even tougher.  A little flaming, but no out-and-out backstabbing (unless you count the tongue in cheek attempts at sabotage).  But, I guess it just proves that gamers really don't have what it takes to make it in the corporate world.  For the most part, we're more interested in seeing the best proposal chosen than making sure ours is the winner.  And considering the monetary gain associated with winning this competition, I think that speaks quite highly of this community.

Cheers to all of you, and best of luck!


John


----------



## brak1

I also wanted to express my thanks for the help offered by everyone here.  My usual experience with large groups of people in competition with each other did not prepare me for the helpful, friendly and good-natured tone of the majority of the posts here.  Thanks, and good luck to us all!

My submissions (2) went out Wednesday and Friday respectively.  650 and 473 words - Arial 11 point.  One submission was from a game world I've been working on, but the other was from an outline for a book idea.  One of my brothers also submitted an idea from a novel outline.  

I'm wondering how many people here also used a book (or story) idea as their basis?  I'm not sure that there is any advantage to this approach, other than well-defined main characters and plotline.  What do you folks think?


----------



## Mirth

Zappo said:
			
		

> *Have you all voted here? C'mon, help Yuan-Ti make a decent statistic. *




Thanks for the reminder, Zappo. Just voted. I actually had three ideas, but the last one would have been too hard to develop, so I canned it even though it was pretty cool.

Jay


----------



## Troll's Choice

Gee, you guys are so nice you're all giving me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.  

I asked this question before, guys, but received no comment. If your papers are accidentily shuffled out of order in your envelope(submission agreement at bottom, instead of at top), are you doomed?

I have all my materials. But I still am unsure of whether or not I put them in the envelope in proper order. The thought that I might have inserted them inside the envelope improperly disturbs me. And it's too late for me to do anything about it now.

Does anyone in charge know the answer to this one? Please enlighten me!


----------



## Rasyr

Troll's Choice said:
			
		

> *Gee, you guys are so nice you're all giving me a warm fuzzy feeling inside.
> 
> I asked this question before, guys, but received no comment. If your papers are accidentily shuffled out of order in your envelope(submission agreement at bottom, instead of at top), are you doomed?
> 
> I have all my materials. But I still am unsure of whether or not I put them in the envelope in proper order. The thought that I might have inserted them inside the envelope improperly disturbs me. And it's too late for me to do anything about it now.
> 
> Does anyone in charge know the answer to this one? Please enlighten me!  *




You didn't get an answer because we didn't know....

My guess is that it depends on the mood poor Christine is in when she opens it...


----------



## trix

*Story Line . . . ?*



			
				brak1 said:
			
		

> *. . ., but the other was from an outline for a book idea.  One of my brothers also submitted an idea from a novel outline.
> 
> I'm wondering how many people here also used a book (or story) idea as their basis?  I'm not sure that there is any advantage to this approach, other than well-defined main characters and plotline.  What do you folks think? *




I created a world that was worthy of a storyline.  Nothing like a bit of history to put a bit of mystry in the minds of the players.  I keep things a bit more mature than DL.  (Nothing worse than playing in someone elses epic) and a bit more realistic.

I focused on keeping things origional and unique so that its similar but nothing like DL, FR, DS, SJ, etc.  Keep in mind that the winner should be nothing that they could recreate in-house.

Thats pretty difficult to do.

So, I ended up with 1170 words 10pt with a cool twist on magic which i've yet to see in any world/RPG.

(I've also estimated which words will get punched when they 3-whole-punch the page, and   the/and/of will get punched if they've got a good punch that punches at the optimal spots)

The biggest problem I came up with was the name of the world.

Forgotten Realms
Greyhawk
Dragon Lance
Spell Jammer
Ravenloft
Dark Sun

Purplehippo
Hippo Lance
Hippoloft
Purple Sun
Hippo Jammer

Hehe, You can see that although those names are different, they're not unique.  Likewise, the setting that should be the winner should be an origional setting, one that is unique, similar in the medival/middleages of FR and DL, but nothing like them.

-Tim


----------



## Mirth

*Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				trix said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The biggest problem I came up with was the name of the world.
> 
> *




I had the same problem, so I didn't name mine. (By world, I assume you mean setting - i.e. Greyhawk. I did name my world - i.e. Oerth.) They didn't ask for it, so I didn't give it, mostly because what I came up with either sounded right and wasn't marketable or just plain sucked. Overall, I decided that a bad name would just detract from the other ideas on the page. I have a feeling it's an even split as to how many people submitted a setting name and how many didn't. What do y'all think? (Yes, I'm a southerner.)


----------



## Lord Pi

Golly!  1100 words?     I had enough problems fitting my 419~463 words on a page.

Format:
Basically my Microsoft Word defaults
Arial 10pt text
Headers included in Arial 10pt bold text
1.25" margins left and right
1" margins top and bottom
1 blank line between headers and text
single spaced text
1 lame printer to print it all on

Also, I want to give a shout of thanks to everyone on this board for their help.  Thanks.

- Lord Pi


----------



## Jon F. Zeigler

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *I have the weirdest sensation that people were largely writing stuff that is far, far away from the point of this exercise... The questions that the template asks aren't "tell us about your world" questions IMO, but "so what does the ad-copy for this product line look like?"
> 
> Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?*




<* raises hand *>.

The stronger proposal I sent in didn't have a single specific reference to in-setting material - no names and almost no back story. It described in considerable detail what _kind_ of setting it was, though. With marketing angles.


----------



## Weeble

*Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				mirthcard said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I had the same problem*




Me too, and if one of the qualifications is a good name, I loose.


----------



## Zot_Wyzo

*Just slogged through all 42 pages of this*

I sent mine off from Chicago yesterday at 2:30 PM.

The thing I'm happiest about is the fact that I chose not to read a word of this thread until after I had worked on my proposal for two weeks, finishing it up for the most part at 11:20 PM CDT Thursday night with a quick edit at 7:00 AM CDT Friday morning.

I started reading this thread about 15 minutes after I posted the proposal. I would get worried, then frightened, then truly enter a realm of utter despair. Then I would read one of Anthony's posts and feel fine again.

I learned of the contest from the Wizards D&D page. I followed the instructions to the letter and refused to read even a single thread about it anywhere on the web.

Man, that was the BEST decision I made in this entire affair!


----------



## Irysangel

*Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				mirthcard said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I had the same problem, so I didn't name mine. (By world, I assume you mean setting - i.e. Greyhawk. I did name my world - i.e. Oerth.) They didn't ask for it, so I didn't give it, mostly because what I came up with either sounded right and wasn't marketable or just plain sucked. Overall, I decided that a bad name would just detract from the other ideas on the page. I have a feeling it's an even split as to how many people submitted a setting name and how many didn't. What do y'all think? (Yes, I'm a southerner.) *





I didn't name mine either -- I couldn't find anything catchy enough that would be a perfect summary for it, and would make me flip over to run to get it.  I did name my world, but that's about as far as I got.

And hooray for the South!


----------



## Ghostwind

*d20Zine to include proposals in next issue*

Since several individuals have stated they want to post their worlds after the selection process has been narrowed down to the ten, I am willing to include anyone's entry in the next issue of *d20Zine!*.  If enough people contribute, I will make the issue a special edition devoted solely to campaign proposals that anyone will be able to download, read, and use to formulate ideas for their own campaign worlds.

For those who haven't heard of *d20Zine!*, it is an online quarterly magazine developed by the *d20 Magazine Rack* and consisting of articles written by both fans and industry professionals.  The premier issue is available on our site for download.

Anyone who wishes their entry to be included should contact me after the deadline for the selection of ten has passed and we will go from there...


----------



## Weeble

Ghostwind, this is an excellent idea!


----------



## trix

*Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				mirthcard said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I had the same problem, so I didn't name mine. They didn't ask for it, so I didn't give it, mostly because what I came up with either sounded right and wasn't marketable or just plain sucked. Overall, I decided that a bad name would just detract from the other ideas on the page.
> *
> 
> Definately!  Finding that natural name that isnt cheesy is a bit difficult.
> 
> *I have a feeling it's an even split as to how many people submitted a setting name and how many didn't. What do y'all think? (Yes, I'm a southerner.) *




I dont think the naming is an issue unless there is a tie in setting quality.  I doubt many named theirs.  I named mine setting but put a big "This will change" in smallprint    .

-Tim


----------



## Mouseferatu

I had similar naming issues with mine.

On two of my proposals, I named the world (i.e. Oerth) but not the setting (i.e. Greyhawk).

On the third, I named the setting, but not the world.  (Of course, that's because the people of that world have no conceptions that other worlds exist, and therefore never felt the need to name their own.  It's just "the world.")

Be interesting to see if WotC has any names to suggest if I actually manage to make it to a later round.


----------



## Tom Cashel

Troll's Choice said:
			
		

> *
> I asked this question before, guys, but received no comment. If your papers are accidentily shuffled out of order in your envelope(submission agreement at bottom, instead of at top), are you doomed?
> 
> I have all my materials. But I still am unsure of whether or not I put them in the envelope in proper order. The thought that I might have inserted them inside the envelope improperly disturbs me. And it's too late for me to do anything about it now.
> 
> Does anyone in charge know the answer to this one? Please enlighten me!  *




from the Unofficial FAQ:

Q. Does it matter what order we put our pages (cover letter, submission agreement, proposal) in?

A. "As long as the submission agreement is above the submission then order is unimportant." (source: WotC Message Boards)

I truly hope this does NOT mean that you're "doomed," troll's Choice.  Sorry to be the bearer of this quote, but you were wanting an answer.


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?*




I did from the very beginning. 

If I was heading the judging I would be interested in the proposal that presented the greatest potential return on investment.

Remember WoTC has already invested money in this project, mostly in terms of salaries payed and they've yet to pay the $120,000. But wait it doesn't stop there. Even after they award the 120 grand there are all sorts of production costs, in getting to market, that must be considered.

Now to get the money back in a big way, remember they called this a "moon shot", they can shoot for either phenomenal sales in one product catagory or respectable sales across two or more product catagories.

I feel they would have more of a chance with the latter. Mostly because of market demographics and such.


I have to say that my proposal was so brief that if this contest doesn't pan out I may consider a career writing bumper stickers.


----------



## Irysangel

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> from the Unofficial FAQ:
> 
> Q. Does it matter what order we put our pages (cover letter, submission agreement, proposal) in?
> 
> A. "As long as the submission agreement is above the submission then order is unimportant." (source: WotC Message Boards)
> 
> I truly hope this does NOT mean that you're "doomed," troll's Choice.  Sorry to be the bearer of this quote, but you were wanting an answer. *




Wow, that sucks.

I honestly cannot remember what order mine was in.  I assumed that it wasn't of huge importance simply because the admin gets it first, and seperates it all.

They did mention they've only thrown out 10% so far, however.  I sincerely doubt they'll axe a potential simply because one paper was out of order.

At least, I hope not.

Maybe we'll get clarification on this from someone at WoTC.


----------



## Zappo

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *from the Unofficial FAQ:
> 
> Q. Does it matter what order we put our pages (cover letter, submission agreement, proposal) in?
> 
> A. "As long as the submission agreement is above the submission then order is unimportant." (source: WotC Message Boards)*



Hmmm... I wonder why it is so.


----------



## Oni

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> from the Unofficial FAQ:
> 
> Q. Does it matter what order we put our pages (cover letter, submission agreement, proposal) in?
> 
> A. "As long as the submission agreement is above the submission then order is unimportant." (source: WotC Message Boards)
> 
> I truly hope this does NOT mean that you're "doomed," troll's Choice.  Sorry to be the bearer of this quote, but you were wanting an answer. *





Personally I'd say if it wasn't outlined in any of the official material released on the WotC site then it has no bearing on your submission.  Seriously, would they dump a whole bunch of submissions over a minor detail they only managed to get out to a small portion of the community in an unofficial manner?  I greatly doubt it.


----------



## Darraketh

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> from the Unofficial FAQ:
> 
> Q. Does it matter what order we put our pages (cover letter, submission agreement, proposal) in?
> 
> A. "As long as the submission agreement is above the submission then order is unimportant." (source: WotC Message Boards)
> 
> I truly hope this does NOT mean that you're "doomed," troll's Choice.  Sorry to be the bearer of this quote, but you were wanting an answer. *




I know I put all three pieces in the envelope. I think I put the agreement on the bottom.

I believe having them in a specific order would help speed the initial sorting process.  But I wouldn't worry about it. By now they have probably hired a temp or two to assist in opening the mail.


----------



## Irysangel

*Hmm*

Says it on the WoTC webpage also.

>>>>>>>>>>>>
All initial proposals must:

1. be covered with a signed, unmodified copy of the Idea Submission Agreement;

2. include an accompanying cover letter with contact information;

3. be structured in accord with the initial proposal template; 

4. be no more than one (1) page in length;

5. be postmarked no later than June 21, 2002.

Initial proposals that are longer than one page or that don't meet any of the other requirements will be automatically rejected.
>>>>>>>>>>>>


Verrrry interesting.  Now I *really* wish I'd paid more attention to the order I put mine in.

Though I suppose if I don't get picked, I can always blame it on some such thing like that rather than my idea.


----------



## isirga eth

*aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*

I DID put the agreement last. If I'm eliminated for that, I'll seriously start considering suicide...

Now seriously, last questions for Zulkir (repeated from five pages back):

- suppose I mail my submission before june 21, BUT it arrives AFTER july 3... what happens to it?

- how many entries have you got by now?


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: Hmm*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Says it on the WoTC webpage also.
> 
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> All initial proposals must:
> 
> 1. be covered with a signed, unmodified copy of the Idea Submission Agreement;
> 
> 2. include an accompanying cover letter with contact information;
> 
> 3. be structured in accord with the initial proposal template;
> 
> 4. be no more than one (1) page in length;
> 
> 5. be postmarked no later than June 21, 2002.
> 
> Initial proposals that are longer than one page or that don't meet any of the other requirements will be automatically rejected.
> >>>>>>>>>>>>
> 
> 
> Verrrry interesting.  Now I *really* wish I'd paid more attention to the order I put mine in.
> 
> Though I suppose if I don't get picked, I can always blame it on some such thing like that rather than my idea.  *




Hmmm... It's all apart of the test! aaahhhh!!! I'm doomed!!!

I refuse to worry.


----------



## isirga eth

*Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *I DID put the agreement last.  *




On ALL FIVE submissions... BLAST IT!!!!!


----------



## Mistwell

Someone misread the rules.  "Covered" is a legal term, not a geometric positioning term, in this sense.  It has to be "covered" by an agreement, meaning there has to be an agreement that speaks to, or for, that submission (not on top of).  When the admin takes the package out of the envelope, they are going to have to open the whole thing - the cover letter and agreement to match it to a number, and the submission to match it to a number.  It won't matter what physical order they are placed in the envelope, the admin has to take it all out anyway.

Y'all need to stop worrying.  I sometimes feel like this is a thread composed of people telling us how they went about buying a lottery ticket.  I am interested in seeing everyones ideas, and the sharing of an experience can be fun as well, but the paranoid worrying over small details is a bit frustrating.  You have better odds of "winning" $120,000 is Las Vegas, then you do in this submission.  The experience itself is what was important, not whether you "win", because the overwhelming odds say you did not "win" (even if your submission was fantastic).  You do, however, now have experience formulating a submission to a game company.  You have distilled an interesting senario into one page, and you have the opportunity to now add to that senario for your own campaign, and to share with the rest of us here, eventually.  That's what you should be focused on now.

Personally, I think it is time to close this thread, and let the subject rest for a few days.


----------



## Irysangel

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *Personally, I think it is time to close this thread, and let the subject rest for a few days. *




Naw, I like hearing about what everyone is thinking.  Y'all may think I'm crazy, but I'd rather hear what everyone's thoughts are than sit at home and not hear anything about it for weeks.  It helps ease the pain of waiting. 

On a side note, the Texas Lottery is up to $70 million tonight, so I'm buying tickets for that as well.


----------



## Zappo

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *Someone misread the rules.  "Covered" is a legal term, not a geometric positioning term, in this sense.  It has to be "covered" by an agreement, meaning there has to be an agreement that speaks to, or for, that submission (not on top of).*



That's exactly what I thought. I mean, who the hell cares about how they are ordered? It's not that they are going to have a robot sort the letters. But then I read







> *Q. Does it matter what order we put our pages (cover letter, submission agreement, proposal) in?
> 
> A. "As long as the submission agreement is above the submission then order is unimportant." (source: WotC Message Boards)*



One gets worried. I placed the sheets randomly and didn't mind the order. I don't remember which order they were. I thought (and still think) that it is the epitome of irrelevant things. But the FAQ entry...?


----------



## Altmann

*Re: Re: Re: colour vs compact*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *Don't tell me... you've used a different color for each paragraph? Sentence? Word? Letter? Or did you use multi-colored fonts? I'm sure the reviewers will sooooo like it!!   *






Actually, this was more about :
* giving a nice name to each submission
* writing a small novel-like introduction
* introducing story elements
* introducing unspecified concepts with interesting names
* writing everything first-person from the heroes point of view

In my shortest submission, I even wrote a (very short) novel-like conclusion.

But I do admit that writing everything with the blood from some Elder Gods could have added some more colour 

Be reading you,
 YA


----------



## your father is

brak1 said:
			
		

> *I'm wondering how many people here also used a book (or story) idea as their basis?  I'm not sure that there is any advantage to this approach, other than well-defined main characters and plotline.  What do you folks think? *




  My submission is story based, but I tried to pitch the world and not the plot.  Plot is handy, but Anthony said they were not favoring a single, dominant threat, which I take to mean a single dominant story arc.  My world has room for many, many stories.  I just happen to have one developed already.

  ______________

  "Do or do not."


----------



## Tom Cashel

**shrug**



			
				Mistwell said:
			
		

> *Someone misread the rules.  "Covered" is a legal term, not a geometric positioning term, in this sense.
> *




Well, the FAQ says different--that the agreement must be "above" the submission to which it applies.  I assumed it was a legal thing...since we weren't supposed to staple the agreement to the submission, the agreement had to be on top so that it would "legally" apply to that submission.

But, I repeat: *shrug*  I don't think it will make a difference, as long as everything's in the envelope.  Hopefully AV will clear it up, so we won't have to worry about it any longer.


----------



## Zappo

You mean that geometric positioning of the sheets influences the legal effectiveness of the agreement?

...I just had a flash of the whole thing getting discussed in court. I think if I was the judge I would LMAO until they had to drag me out of the room. If it's true, it's really pathetic.


----------



## kafka47

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *I have the weirdest sensation that people were largely writing stuff that is far, far away from the point of this exercise... The questions that the template asks aren't "tell us about your world" questions IMO, but "so what does the ad-copy for this product line look like?" *




To me, proceeding with the notion that it's merely a blurb-writing 
contest is tantamount to trying to "guess" or "game" your response. 

They were soliciting ideas, regardless of how they were printed, framed
or written. Anthony said (sic), 
"If you have a story, then write it. If you have a world, then describe it."

If you're good at writing blurbs then do that. I think what really matters
is the content and the freshness. 

/Craig


----------



## Tom Cashel

Zappo said:
			
		

> *You mean that geometric positioning of the sheets influences the legal effectiveness of the agreement?
> [...]
> If it's true, it's really pathetic. *




It certainly wouldn't be the most absurd thing that's ever happened in the history of jurisprudence and contract law!



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> But, I repeat: *shrug*  I don't think it will make a difference, as long as everything's in the envelope.  Hopefully AV will clear it up, so we won't have to worry about it any longer. *


----------



## Deken

I can't imagine that they'd be that concerned about it, but the FAQ did say that the submission agreement had to be "above" the submission.  And according to the FAQ here, staples or no staples isn't important.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				trix said:
			
		

> *
> 
> The biggest problem I came up with was the name of the world.
> 
> 
> -Tim *




Silly, that's what Latin is for


----------



## Zappo

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *It certainly wouldn't be the most absurd thing that's ever happened in the history of jurisprudence and contract law! *



True, true. Every time I think I've heard them all, something will come up from jurisprudence and astonish me again.


----------



## Troll's Choice

I know I shouldn't second guess myself, but here I am, doing it again anyway.   Not only am I unsure of what order I placed my papers, but when I put my NAME in the lower left-hand corner of the proposal template page, I didn't number it. I numbered everything else though (1 through 6). I didn't think they'd alter the submission guidelines.

Originally, only six things had to be numbered:

1. Core Ethos Sentence. (check)

2. Who are the heroes? (check)

3. What do they do? (check)

4. Threats, Conflicts, Villians. (check)

5. Nature of magic. (check)

6. What's new? What's different? (check)

7. Name? Name? The name had to be at the lower left-hand corner, BUT THERE WAS NO NUMBER SEVEN.

After I sent it, I remember checking the Wizard site, and lo and behold, the guidelines were slightly altered so that you were supposed to put in a number 7.

I indeed put my name in the lower left-hand corner of the page. I wrote my signature in the corner by hand. I also printed my name (in pen) right above it. Am I doomed? I know I keep saying that, but I'm hopeful they won't castrate my submission over this stuff. I mean...they changed the rules a bit, right?

I supposed I shoulda checked the site every ten minutes, but I just couldn't. Maybe I'm just being paranoid. At least I hope so....


----------



## Zappo

*shrug*

Ok, I don't know in which order the sheets in my envelope are, I have placed my name (print and handwrite) in the lower left corner but without '#7', and I can't even guarantee the envelop will arrive before the deadline (I did send it on the 17th, but by normal mail, who knows...).

I trust WotC to be smarter than trash valuable submissions over petty issues like those.


----------



## Rasyr

Troll's Choice said:
			
		

> *I know I shouldn't second guess myself, but here I am, doing it again anyway.   Not only am I unsure of what order I placed my papers, but when I put my NAME in the lower left-hand corner of the proposal template page, I didn't number it. I numbered everything else though (1 through 6). I didn't think they'd alter the submission guidelines.
> 
> <snip for brevity>
> 
> 7. Name? Name? The name had to be at the lower left-hand corner, BUT THERE WAS NO NUMBER SEVEN.
> 
> *




Settle down.....

There was no word official or otherwise that said you had to name the sections.

To paraphrase what was said, Anthony said that as long as the six section were clearly identified (by numbers, lables, bullets, wads of gum, what have you), that the submission was acceptable. The point being that they wanted each section in the order listed, and clearly identified to make their jobs easier. There wasno need to actually number any item on the submission form, just clearly identify it.

The guide sheet had number to make it easier for folks to understand that WOTC wanted *7* items on this page, and that your name *HAD* to be one of them. That is all.


----------



## Matt Black

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *
> Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?
> *




I think I'm with Craig on this one. Wizards have a marketing department to write blurbs for their games, and the reviewers will be more than capable of identifying marketable elements based on a straight (or even rambling) description of your campaign world. They're unlikely to be swayed by glib sales pitches when you only have one page to describe the actual content of the world. We spent our page talking about the best aspects of our game world and trying to convey the flavour of the setting. Sure, we selected these   aspects based on their intended use (broadly-scoped campaign world, card games, miniatures, novels), but we certainly didn't belabor the point.

In the end I think it will come down to how unique and compelling the overall concept is. Wizards are casting such a 
wide net here because they know that there are some kickass ideas floating around, waiting to be grabbed. These ideas may not be in the hands of salesmen or even professional game developers.

MB


----------



## trix

*Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				MavrickWeirdo said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Silly, that's what Latin is for *





Hehe, I went to eng->lat online translators... the translations were too good.


----------



## Duncan Haldane

*Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *I DID put the agreement last. If I'm eliminated for that, I'll seriously start considering suicide... *




Of course, you will never know why you were eliminated.  They will only reply to people who make the final ~10.

Duncan


----------



## Duncan Haldane

*A new thought*

It just crossed my mind that with Wizards getting all these submissions it would be a great way to build up a database of roleplayer's addresses for direct marketing.

Duncan


----------



## Zot_Wyzo

*Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Duncan Haldane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Of course, you will never know why you were eliminated.  They will only reply to people who make the final ~10.
> 
> Duncan *




Have you read the Wizards web page regarding this? Let me quote:



> _From Wizards web page at http://www.wizards.com/dnd/article.asp?x=dnd/dx20020606d_
> *
> We will contact all those who sent in proposals, informing them if their proposal was selected as one of the ten for further consideration.
> *




Looks like everybody will get some sort of notification.


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Duncan Haldane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Of course, you will never know why you were eliminated.  They will only reply to people who make the final ~10.
> 
> Duncan *




Not True.  This was on the WotC website.  Now I doubt they will tell you why you were eliminated.  But sometime in the next 6 years they might get around to mailing the form letter to you.

Andrew Christian



The New Fantasy Setting
Search Is Closed  



The deadline has now passed for proposals for Wizards of the Coast's search for a new fantasy setting. All proposals postmarked on or before June 21, 2002 will be considered by a committee of experts from Wizards. We will contact all those who sent in proposals, informing them if their proposal was selected as one of the ten for further consideration.

We'd like to thank the many, many enthusiastic gamers, editors, writers, designers, and fans who sent in proposals. This is a very exciting project, made more so by the energy and creativity it has evoked in the gaming community. We're looking forward to the next stage of the search.


----------



## Bombastus

*I'm Awake!*

::materializes out of lurk mode::

   Thanks WotC. This setting search feels so great.  I didn't realize the degree to which I had been letting my passion for gaming slip away under layers of unconsciousness.  My guess is that thousands are feeling the same thing I am.  This reminds me of "Willy Wonka and the Chocolate Factory" when the whole world is in hysteria overy the lucky few who get to have a look inside the mysterious chocolate factory.  
     I'm not only geeked about my own chances of being selected:  I can not wait to see this final product, no matter who it comes from.  I am more excited about this new setting than I was about 3E, than I was about "Beyond the High Road", than I am about attending my very first Gen Con this year (and..I have accumulated several years of online RPG buddies to meet).  But this takes the cake.  I wish I could just implode and be done with it.  This is exciting stuff! Think about it, whatever comes out of this contest will have won out over most homebrew campaign worlds we all have so passionately played in.  Talk about great expectations.  
     Several days ago my mind was so foucsed on my own RPG project that I hadn't fully realized the degree to which I had lost site of... lost site of.... I've lost, that lovin' feelin'.  whoa oh whoa.  that lovin' feelin'.  Seriously, this contest inspired me to play for fun again.  And the ammount of excitement on this message board is inspiring. Thank you.  Thank you.  Thank you.

Maggie


----------



## Irysangel

*Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *We will contact all those who sent in proposals, informing them if their proposal was selected as one of the ten for further consideration.*




Ok, now we need everyone to start posting when they get their rejection letters   I'm curious as to how soon/what format they'll be using.

The entire contest just intrigues me.....when I get my letter I'll slap it up.


----------



## Friadoc

Deken said:
			
		

> *I can't imagine that they'd be that concerned about it, but the FAQ did say that the submission agreement had to be "above" the submission.  And according to the FAQ here, staples or no staples isn't important. *




Well,

...also, according to the FAQ, the FAQ is Unofficial.

Hmm....reminds me of 'Mudds Planet' - If you say you're always lying, then you're lying when you say you're always lying, but if that is true then you're telling the truth, but you can't be telling the truth because you're always lying'.....BeeeeEEeeeep! BoooOooo!
Obviously paraphrased, but still a bit entertaining - loopable, yet fuzzy logic is wierd and funny.


----------



## Vaxalon

*Re: Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Ok, now we need everyone to start posting when they get their rejection letters  *




THere won't be any rejection letters.  You'll know you're rejected when you don't get accepted.


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*Re: A new thought*



			
				Duncan Haldane said:
			
		

> *It just crossed my mind that with Wizards getting all these submissions it would be a great way to build up a database of roleplayer's addresses for direct marketing.
> 
> Duncan *




What you thought they were offering all that money to get origional ideas? 

This is a direct marketing list and informal customer survey. 

They need to recoop the $160,000 somehow.


----------



## Irysangel

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Vaxalon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> THere won't be any rejection letters.  You'll know you're rejected when you don't get accepted. *




I'm going by what was posted on the Wizards website.  Not necessarily rejection letters per se, but you WILL be notified of whether or not you were picked.  Obviously if they are sending the same letter out to everyone, and it lists the winners, and you are not listed, you are rejected.

Easy.


----------



## Jamie44

It would be ok with me if they just posted winners.

Either way I just wanna know one way or another that I didn't make it if that is the case. After the 3rd anyway.


----------



## Altmann

*Re: Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				trix said:
			
		

> *
> Hehe, I went to eng->lat online translators... the translations were too good. *




Hey, where did you find one ?
Btw., I'm also looking for eng->greek and eng->hebrew - if somebody knows where to find such a thing, I'll take gladly.

(french->latin/greek/hebrew are also accepted)

BRY,
 YA


----------



## trix

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				Altmann said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hey, where did you find one ?
> Btw., I'm also looking for eng->greek and eng->hebrew - if somebody knows where to find such a thing, I'll take gladly.
> 
> (french->latin/greek/hebrew are also accepted)
> 
> BRY,
> YA *




google: english latin translator 

http://www.google.com/search?q=english+latin+language+translator&hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1

Some of the translators are better than others, but most exist and work to satisfaction.

-Tim


----------



## River

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Vaxalon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> THere won't be any rejection letters.  You'll know you're rejected when you don't get accepted. *




That would be incredibly stupid on the part of WOTC.

1.  People who submitted are their core customers.  If I were them I'd be sending out a form Thank-you letter.  If they're really smart they would promise to later send a coupon for the first product released for the new campaign setting.  Want to convince any potential sour grapes folks to buy the new setting!

River


----------



## Irysangel

Besides, it's not Anthony V. et al that's going to be sending out the 'rejection' letters.


It's going to be poor Christina once more, looking up 10-thousand email addresses.....

Someone send that girl flowers already!


----------



## mirzabah

Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Someone send that girl flowers already!*



Looks like you just volunteered


----------



## NoOneofConsequence

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *I have the weirdest sensation that people were largely writing stuff that is far, far away from the point of this exercise...
> 
> Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?
> 
> *




This was my feeling all along. Mine came out a lot more like the blurb from the back of the campaign setting box/book than a one page summary of a world. 'Course I could be completely wrong.

Many folks are talking about "explaining" their world within the given limits. I had a dreadful feeling that if I had to explain it, it shouldn't have gone in the one page. I felt that the one page should make them want to know more, not feel like they already understand it.

Of course, there's only one way to find out who is right and who is round filed. Bring on July 3.


----------



## Mouseferatu

Wow.  According to Bruce Cordell, who posted over on Monte's boards, at the rate the submissions have been coming in, he wouldn't be surprised if they "broke 20,000." 

Man, I expected some stiff competition, but _yeesh_...


----------



## Undead Pete

mouseferatu said:
			
		

> *Wow.  According to Bruce Cordell, who posted over on Monte's boards, at the rate the submissions have been coming in, he wouldn't be surprised if they "broke 20,000."
> 
> Man, I expected some stiff competition, but yeesh... *



1 in 10,000....
1 in 20,000....

Still better than the lottery.


----------



## Morgenstern

*Number of entries greater than expected*

Man, I just hope they up the number of 10-page slots somewhat proportionately to the number of responses they get. Reducing even 10,000+ entires to only ten second round competitors on only a week stinks of crap shoot rather than carefully considered review. I am fairly confident that 50 or even 100 of the most serious competitors would be willing to write a 10-page synopsis if that will increase the odds of their submissions being judged on merit rather than "this looked pretty good after 70 straight hours of reading these things..." .

I think a lot of people would write 10-pagers just for the practice of getting their thoughts together .


----------



## trix

*Re: Number of entries greater than expected*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *Man, I just hope they up the number of 10-page slots somewhat proportionately to the number of responses they get. Reducing even 10,000+ entires to only ten second round competitors on only a week stinks of crap shoot rather than carefully considered review. I am fairly confident that 50 or even 100 of the most serious competitors would be willing to write a 10-page synopsis if that will increase the odds of their submissions being judged on merit rather than "this looked pretty good after 70 straight hours of reading these things..." .
> 
> I think a lot of people would write 10-pagers just for the practice of getting their thoughts together . *




How many times can you protect a caravan?
How many different ways can you write the word 'caravan'?

Not alot.
Alot of the worlds will be based on an archtypical setting.  Most will be the same as 10%(guess) of the other entries.   There might be 10(guess) major threads of entries.

There may be only 20(guess) unique types of entries out of 20000(guess) once major archtypes are considered and discarsded.

They then will have to whitle things down.  Obviously, it would be better to have two writers per unique entry (since one might botch a setting up... that doesnt mean the setting is bad).

So there should be at least 20x2 settings that should make the second round: But it should all be dependant on how many unique settings there are, not how many entrants there are.

They probably thought that they'd get maybe 1000 entries... well.. hehe... they underestimated.  They've got 10 days to cover 20000(guess) entries.

Thats 2000 entries a day.

Thats 300 per panel member per day.  Thats 37 an hour, or 2 mins per entry.

So... they'll read the ethos, then they'll read the 'whats different', and if its good, then they'll put it asside as one of the few that they will review after work.

If they've got 10000 entries, they'll spend 3 mins on each.  I'm assuming 6 panel members working a full 8 hours a day for 10 days.  We all know that that will be difficult to do.

a) Either they get more panel members
b) Slip the July 3rd date
c) Do a bad job at reading everything
d) work alot of overtime

Its actually less time, since they need at least a day as a panel to whitle things down from 100 to 10~20.

-Tim


----------



## Mistwell

A quick comparison of odds to cool down this "contest" fevor a bit:

The odds of winning the Trifecta at the Derby horse races (picking 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Place all in one shot) are 1 in 1,321.

This "contest" is 1 in 20,000.

In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet.


----------



## River

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *A quick comparison of odds to cool down this "contest" fevor a bit:
> 
> The odds of winning the Trifecta at the Derby horse races (picking 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Place all in one shot) are 1 in 1,321.
> 
> This "contest" is 1 in 20,000.
> 
> In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  *




Given your stated location...

As a fellow member of the California State Bar I herby wash my hands of you!  Who in HELL is going to bring suit or prosecute?

Its guys like you who give guys like me a bad name.  Actually its the guy who actually files a lawsuit on something like this that gives guys like me a bad name!!!

River


----------



## Zappo

Hey, cool down. He didn't say he was actually going to sue. I don't think he even thought about it.


----------



## Kibo

*Re: What are people actually writing?*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *Did anyone else treat it as a marketable product line proposal first, fantasy world second?*




I didn't.  I don't find that particularly interesting.  I'm not a kook who missed the point, so stick with me.   It's all about the story.  At least for me.  What would be a good story to tell?  I had a bunch of ideas, pulled them together and presto, a cool idea of a setting.  I had a friend with the same situation.  We talked and next thing you know his chocolate is all up in my peanut butter.  Two days later, we had a peanut butter cup.

The idea, IMNSHO, is extreamly marketable.  It's beautiful, clever, and lends itself to so many things.  Still, having sent it off a while ago, I'm giddy.  Who knows maybe we win maybe not, but it's an idea worth pursuing even if WoTC doesn't think so.


----------



## Altmann

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states*




Actually, I wondered the same. In France, the legislation on money games is very strict - everything must be declared and accepted by a national gaming commission, if I remember well. Even more problematic to me : due to my status as employee of the state, winning money might not be legal for me  

Well, knowing I would presumably not win, I didn't pursue this thread. However, I believe that the price of this contest publication, rather than money. Hence, I suppose that it is legal.

Be reading you,
 YA


----------



## trix

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *





I believe money is not changing hands and ownership of articles is not forfeit until later rounds, where there is going(?) to be less than 100 participants.

Their procedures ensure that skill is the only deciding factor.

Worst possible scenario: they deny entries from those states whose gaming regulations would disallow entries into the contest.

-Tim


----------



## seasong

trix said:
			
		

> *I believe money is not changing hands and ownership of articles is not forfeit until later rounds, where there is going(?) to be less than 100 participants.
> *




If you win the first round, you don't get anything except a request to write a 10-page expansion, that is, a chance to compete for a contract.


----------



## Rasyr

*contest? we don' need no stinkin' contests!*



			
				Mistwell said:
			
		

> *A quick comparison of odds to cool down this "contest" fevor a bit:
> <snip>
> In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *




Who knows, but I think the point is mute since they have *NEVER* called it a contest, not once, nor have any of their representatives. It has always been called the _Setting Search_

Basically, they put out an open call for submissions, with a few guidelines, that they have stressed would be rigorously enforced (i.ei no more than a single page).

Now, the reality may have the number of submissions far exceeding what they had expected to get, but that does not alter the fact that it is not a contest.

My feeling is that each panel member will go through a number of the submissions, and cancel out they do not like for any reason.

Once this is done, they will then most likely swap out and go through each others selections and weed it down some more. Repeating this process as needed. This ensures that all panelists get to view and have to pass on a submission in order for it to get to final ten or so.

At least this is how I would do it, since it allows for the maximum number of submissions to be covered, and each panelist then goes through what the others keep to reduce those kept by other panelists.

In the end, you wind up with a number of submissions that all panelists agree on...


----------



## Tom Cashel

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *






			
				River said:
			
		

> *
> As a fellow member of the California State Bar I herby wash my hands of you!  Who in HELL is going to bring suit or prosecute?
> 
> Its guys like you who give guys like me a bad name.  Actually its the guy who actually files a lawsuit on something like this that gives guys like me a bad name!!!
> *




I'd just like to say that there is _nothing_ funnier than lawyers flaming each other on an RPG message board.

I've worked for an attorney (as a paralegal) and I agree: lawyers are definitely the ones who give lawyers a bad name.


----------



## Friadoc

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'd just like to say that there is nothing funnier than lawyers flaming each other on an RPG message board.
> 
> I've worked for an attorney (as a paralegal) and I agree: lawyers are definitely the ones who give lawyers a bad name.  *




Feh,

...I thought Wizard's was referring to this as a 'Fantasy Setting Search' not ' Fantasy Setting Contest", it may be semantics but it is relivant.

Basically it is an 'Open Writers Call', such as those done by Sword & Sorcery Studios, et al when they are looking for 'fresh' submissions.

Then again, what do I know as I'm not a lawyer - but I was published in Relics & Rituals from one of Sword & Sorcery's open writer calls.

I wonder if experience should default to education.

*shrugs*

Either way I think it's safer to assume that Wizards of the Coast has a clue as to what they are doing, instead of assuming ignorance.

It's a job shot not a contest. If not, I have a whole load of people to sue after they interviewed me and failed to either hire me or given me letters saying why not.


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: Number of entries greater than expected*



			
				Morgenstern said:
			
		

> *I think a lot of people would write 10-pagers just for the practice of getting their thoughts together . *



I know that I would.  I'm hoping that WotC will generally publish thei 2nd and 3rd round guidelines so that those of us who don't make it can still see what a publisher is looking for.  But that's just me.


----------



## Mercule

re: order of pages



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *
> Wow, that sucks.
> 
> I honestly cannot remember what order mine was in.  I assumed that it wasn't of huge importance simply because the admin gets it first, and seperates it all.
> *




No doubt.  I hadn't read anything about order, so I stuck my cover letter on top because it's, well, a _cover_ letter.


----------



## Mercule

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *




If this is true, gambling laws have gotten way out of hand and there are a few legislators who need to be slapped around a bit.


----------



## Vaxalon

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				River said:
			
		

> *...  If I were them I'd be sending out a form Thank-you letter.  If they're really smart they would promise to later send a coupon for the first product released for the new campaign setting. *




That would be incredibly stupid on the part of WOTC.

First of all, the cost of sending out those rejection letters alone would be tens of thousands of dollars.  Add in the cost of the coupon, say, $5 off, and you're going to double the cost of the search.


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Vaxalon said:
			
		

> *
> First of all, the cost of sending out those rejection letters alone would be tens of thousands of dollars.  Add in the cost of the coupon, say, $5 off, and you're going to double the cost of the search. *




20,000 x $.34 = $6,800

I agree with you on the coupon.


----------



## Storm Raven

*Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *20,000 x $.34 = $6,800*




You forgot to add in the cost of the paper for the letters, and the envelopes, and the cost of having someone on staff type the thing and create a database to merge the thousands of names and addresses in order to post them, and the cost of paying someone to stuff the envelopes, and so on.

I'm thinking those costs will easily be more than the cost of the stamps.


----------



## Skarp Hedin

> 20,000 x $.34 = $6,800




Dude, postage goes up in the U.S. on 30 June.  $0.37 now!
That's $7,400 to send those rejection letters now.  They'd only need 27,028 rejected settings to bring that cost up to $10,000.  That doesn't count cost of paper, envelopes, and administrative staff pay to prepare, produce, and send the letters, neither.

Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!

(And I sent in mine on the morning of the 21st, I don't remember word count too well, but it was in the 600 range.  Times New Roman, 11 point.)

Edit: Dang you, Storm Raven, and your faster posting finger!


----------



## Tom Cashel

Ooooh!  Check out the big brain on Storm Raven! 

True, true.  But if they send out a form letter with only the winners listed, there's no merging to speak of.  Paper and envelopes?  Yes.  Certainly not more than 10K for the whole mass mailing.

In any case, they say (on the WotC website) they're going to do it, and I think it's only right to respond to each person who took the time to create and submit a proposal.


----------



## Rasyr

*notifying folks*

Add to this the fact that WOTC (via Anthony) has already said that if the person making the submission has an email address, they will be notified that way...

I think you can forget about actual letters going out.

More likely, Christing put all the information into a database (or is doing so now) 

Once the winners are selected, it is a simple matter to run a sql query and do a mail merge to email a form rejection letter to all the non-selected people. If a person does not have an email address, then they go with doing a mail merge and printing labels.

Such letters would then no longer be prohibitive, but merely slightly time consuming, and more likely to number in the dozens at most, considering that this search was announced via the web, so it is a good chance that almost every single person has an email address.

I know that on my cover letter I included not only my snail mail address, but my email, home, work, and cell phones (I wanted to be thorough).


----------



## Xeriar

*Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 20,000 x $.34 = $6,800
> 
> I agree with you on the coupon. *




Well, the cost of a stamp has just been raised to 37 cents, and where do you find slave labor, free envolopes and paper/printing in the U.S.?


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Xeriar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, the cost of a stamp has just been raised to 37 cents, and where do you find slave labor, free envolopes and paper/printing in the U.S.? *




Try reading the thread.  We've covered that.


----------



## Storm Raven

Tom Cashel said:
			
		

> *Ooooh!  Check out the big brain on Storm Raven! *





Ohhh! Compliments!



> *True, true.  But if they send out a form letter with only the winners listed, there's no merging to speak of.  Paper and envelopes? Yes. Certainly not more than 10K for the whole mass mailing.*





Even if they only send out a form letter with the winners listed, they still have to address every envelope. That is where the large scale database merger comes from, and that _must_ be done to send out mail (even if they send out e-mail, someone has to enter the thousands of e-mail addresses into WotC's computer, that will take significant time, you gotta pay someone for that).


----------



## Tallow

Skarp Hedin said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Dude, postage goes up in the U.S. on 30 June.  $0.37 now!
> That's $7,400 to send those rejection letters now.  They'd only need 27,028 rejected settings to bring that cost up to $10,000.  That doesn't count cost of paper, envelopes, and administrative staff pay to prepare, produce, and send the letters, neither.
> 
> Now you know, and knowing is half the battle!
> 
> (And I sent in mine on the morning of the 21st, I don't remember word count too well, but it was in the 600 range.  Times New Roman, 11 point.)
> 
> Edit: Dang you, Storm Raven, and your faster posting finger! *




Bulk mail is a thing of beauty.  You send them out Bulk, the take about 2 weeks to get where they are going, even IN city, but they only cost about 17 cents per item.

Andy Christian


----------



## Rasyr

Storm Raven said:
			
		

> Ohhh! Compliments!
> 
> [/b]
> 
> Even if they only send out a form letter with the winners listed, they still have to address every envelope. That is where the large scale database merger comes from, and that _must_ be done to send out mail (even if they send out e-mail, someone has to enter the thousands of e-mail addresses into WotC's computer, that will take significant time, you gotta pay someone for that). [/B]




three guesses on what Christine is doing now that the dealine has passed.... (once the last of those mailed on Friday come in, that is...)


----------



## Tallow

*Re: notifying folks*



			
				Rasyr said:
			
		

> *Add to this the fact that WOTC (via Anthony) has already said that if the person making the submission has an email address, they will be notified that way...
> 
> I think you can forget about actual letters going out.
> 
> More likely, Christing put all the information into a database (or is doing so now)
> 
> Once the winners are selected, it is a simple matter to run a sql query and do a mail merge to email a form rejection letter to all the non-selected people. If a person does not have an email address, then they go with doing a mail merge and printing labels.
> 
> Such letters would then no longer be prohibitive, but merely slightly time consuming, and more likely to number in the dozens at most, considering that this search was announced via the web, so it is a good chance that almost every single person has an email address.
> 
> I know that on my cover letter I included not only my snail mail address, but my email, home, work, and cell phones (I wanted to be thorough). *




Having worked as an admin asst before for a non-profit organization, it was part of my duties to log all the new contributors into our data base.  Now I didn't handle this kind of volume over just a week.  But I did have about 30,000 entries over the course of a year.  At one time my boss wanted me to check and enter about 3,000 entries, along with my other duties.  The checking and entering 3,000 entries into our Data Base (which Word Perfect has many templates for by the way, and works very easily and quickly) took me about 8 hours total.  I'd say that Christina could easily enter 20,000 or 30,000 in a week, if her only other duties are messing with this contest.  Couple that with merging the data base with bulk envelopes for addressing and form letters to fit on paper to fit in bulk envelopes, the longest part of the job is actually stuffing the envelopes.  She could also run a script to automatically enter all email addresses from the data base into a form letter email.

Aren't computers great?

Andy Christian


----------



## toberane

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *This "contest" is 1 in 20,000.
> 
> In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *




Even if you wanted to call it a contest, does this meet the definition of one?  What is the difference between this and an open submission for writers and an audition?  If Disneyland decided to hold open auditions to see who would play the next set of diasney characters to walk around the park, and 20,000 people showed up to audition, would that be considered a contest under California State Law?  If the answer is no, then I think this is an almost identical situation.

Also, since the setting search is being conducted by WotC, in Washington, then they would really only have to worry about Washington State Law.  (I haven't checked the Submission Agreement everyone had to sign, but I would bet there is a Venue statement somewhere in there stating that it is to be governed by the laws of the state of Washington.)  If Washington doesn't have a problem with it (and I don't know if they do or not), I don't think the laws of any other state would even matter.


----------



## Akunin

Rasyr said:
			
		

> *three guesses on what Christine is doing now that the dealine has passed*




Dunno about her, but my plans would involve two or three "sick days" and a lot of beers.


----------



## Duvall

*Odds*

The odds of 1 in 20,000 (to use the currently estimated figure) would be relevant if they were deciding the final "winner" today.  But they aren't.  All you need to accomplish with this cut, is to be one of the Ten.  So your odds are really more like 1 in 2000 to stay in the "contest"


----------



## reddist

*rejection "letters"*

Hell, if WotC operates this like many other job applications I've had, those "not hired" won't get letters, they'll get form post cards, bulk-rate.

Go to your database, pick out the ones that don't get rejection post cards, and off you go.

-Reddist


----------



## Mistwell

River said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Given your stated location...
> 
> As a fellow member of the California State Bar I herby wash my hands of you!  Who in HELL is going to bring suit or prosecute?
> 
> Its guys like you who give guys like me a bad name.  Actually its the guy who actually files a lawsuit on something like this that gives guys like me a bad name!!!
> 
> River *




If you ARE an attorney, then you know it is the attorney generals office of Florida who likes to bring these suits, on their own (or other states).  Individuals don't bring a suit (there is no individual cause of action that I know of for failure to register), it's the state itself, for avoiding the registration fees and acting contrary to public policy.


----------



## Mistwell

River said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Given your stated location...
> 
> As a fellow member of the California State Bar I herby wash my hands of you!  Who in HELL is going to bring suit or prosecute?
> 
> Its guys like you who give guys like me a bad name.  Actually its the guy who actually files a lawsuit on something like this that gives guys like me a bad name!!!
> 
> River *




If you ARE an attorney, then you know it is the attorney generals office of Florida who likes to bring these suits, on their own (or other states).  Individuals don't bring a suite (there is no individual cause of action that I know of for failure to register), it's the state itself, for avoiding the registration fees and acting contrary to public policy.


----------



## Vaxalon

*Re: rejection "letters"*



			
				reddist said:
			
		

> *Hell, if WotC operates this like many other job applications I've had, those "not hired" won't get letters, they'll get form post cards, bulk-rate.
> 
> Go to your database, pick out the ones that don't get rejection post cards, and off you go. *




And how do you make the coupons cheap?  That's the lion's share of the expense of that idea.


----------



## Storm Raven

*Re: rejection "letters"*



			
				reddist said:
			
		

> *Go to your database, pick out the ones that don't get rejection post cards, and off you go.*




Uh-huh. How do you propose to create such a database cost free in the first place?


----------



## Mistwell

*Re: contest? we don' need no stinkin' contests!*



			
				Rasyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Who knows, but I think the point is mute since they have NEVER called it a contest, not once, nor have any of their representatives. It has always been called the Setting Search
> 
> Now, the reality may have the number of submissions far exceeding what they had expected to get, but that does not alter the fact that it is not a contest.*




Well, unfortuanately, none of the laws require you to call it a contest.  The gaming commissions look at an objective critieria for events with the potential for gaining money through a public entry process.  Some focus on the potential for the contest to be a promotion for the company involved, and number of entries can be a factor in deciding if an event is a promotion.  I honestly do not know if this event would meet the definition of a contest in any given state, or country.  I just worry that it might.  I know that I would have advised that they put in a few contest-like rules in the event, even if I felt it wasn't a contest.

I'm certianly not hoping that this thing becomes a problem for WOTC.  I hope it goes off without a hitch.  I'm just noting that this thing is, I suspect, a lot bigger than WOTC suspected it would be, and that there is the potential for bad ramifications from its size.


----------



## Zulkir

*Its Monday*

Folks,
Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.

AV

p.s. Don't sweat the order of the paper in your submission. That was a misread of the word "covered" on my part.

p.p.s I'm not kidding, we are really hosed over here.


----------



## Xeriar

*Re: Re: rejection "letters"*



			
				Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Uh-huh. How do you propose to create such a database cost free in the first place? *




Effectively it's going to run at her burden rate, whatever that is.  $1,000 a week would not be excessive, and say, two weeks for everything involved.  That would seem like a pretty tight ship though, $10k would seem lke an extremely hopeful estimate.

The coupons woulds just be a headache IMO.


----------



## Zulkir

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *A quick comparison of odds to cool down this "contest" fevor a bit:
> 
> The odds of winning the Trifecta at the Derby horse races (picking 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Place all in one shot) are 1 in 1,321.
> 
> This "contest" is 1 in 20,000.
> 
> In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *




This might be true if this were a contest, but it is not. It is an open call for submissions. There is a process for the selection of submission and there is a stated offering of a dollar amount for the purchase of full rights to the submission selected (ownere of the submission selected may refuse the money if they wish and keep all rights to their submission). There is no "game" here.

AV


----------



## Tom Cashel

*Woo Hoo!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *p.s. Don't sweat the order of the paper in your submission. That was a misread of the word "covered" on my part.*




Hey, hey!  Troll's Choice and others...no worries.  You are not doomed.



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.
> 
> p.p.s I'm not kidding, we are really hosed over here. *





Good luck, Anthony.  You are a noble gentleman for the task you've undertaken.

EDIT: Now release the lawyers!  Let the flames continue!


----------



## Ashrem Bayle

Anthony,

Do you suspect you'll have to bump up the announcment date?


----------



## Rasyr

*Re: Its Monday*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.
> 
> AV
> 
> p.s. Don't sweat the order of the paper in your submission. That was a misread of the word "covered" on my part.
> 
> p.p.s I'm not kidding, we are really hosed over here. *




so does this mean that you are considering one of the following options:

1) moving the decision date to a date later than July 3rd

2) having more panelists "volunteer" to help in the prelim stages of this stage (read volunteer as conscripted), such as weeding out those being obviously unsuited (rip-offs of books, etc..)

3) taking lots and lots of caffiene intravenously until you are done

4) withdrawing into catatonia for the duration


----------



## Storm Raven

*Re: Re: contest? we don' need no stinkin' contests!*



			
				Mistwell said:
			
		

> *Well, unfortuanately, none of the laws require you to call it a contest.  The gaming commissions look at an objective critieria for events with the potential for gaining money through a public entry process.  Some focus on the potential for the contest to be a promotion for the company involved, and number of entries can be a factor in deciding if an event is a promotion.  I honestly do not know if this event would meet the definition of a contest in any given state, or country.  I just worry that it might.  I know that I would have advised that they put in a few contest-like rules in the event, if I felt it wasn't a contest.*




Except it fails at one important element in determining it to be a contest. You are not purchasing a chance for winning, you are submitting a proposal to be considered for publication. The person selected is being compensated for services rendered (compiling the setting bible), not being given a prize. This takes this event well out of the contest territory.


----------



## Mistwell

toberane said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Even if you wanted to call it a contest, does this meet the definition of one?  What is the difference between this and an open submission for writers and an audition?  If Disneyland decided to hold open auditions to see who would play the next set of diasney characters to walk around the park, and 20,000 people showed up to audition, would that be considered a contest under California State Law?  If the answer is no, then I think this is an almost identical situation.
> 
> Also, since the setting search is being conducted by WotC, in Washington, then they would really only have to worry about Washington State Law.  (I haven't checked the Submission Agreement everyone had to sign, but I would bet there is a Venue statement somewhere in there stating that it is to be governed by the laws of the state of Washington.)  If Washington doesn't have a problem with it (and I don't know if they do or not), I don't think the laws of any other state would even matter. *




California isn't particularly agressive in contest laws, so I doubt it.  A few other states, and countries, might have a problem with that (particularly if a company gains a direct mail mailing list from the event, which I am not sure about with this event).

The laws of other states, and countries, do become involved, if residents of those locations are eligible to enter the event.  That's why every contest says "void where prohibited".  Otherwise, you would never have seen a demand for Bookies


----------



## Xeriar

*Re: Its Monday*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.
> 
> AV
> 
> p.s. Don't sweat the order of the paper in your submission. That was a misread of the word "covered" on my part.
> 
> p.p.s I'm not kidding, we are really hosed over here. *




Let Christina set all of the ones coming in small envolopes aside for now?


----------



## trix

*Re: Its Monday*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.
> 
> AV
> *




Dont suppose you have digital photos of your bin-room ?

We can then reconstruct the volume of the room and calculate the possible density of mail, then work out the number of submissions based on a 3-D reconstruction of the room.

-Tim

(hehe)


----------



## River

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: aaaarrrrrgggghhhh*



			
				Vaxalon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That would be incredibly stupid on the part of WOTC.
> 
> First of all, the cost of sending out those rejection letters alone would be tens of thousands of dollars.  Add in the cost of the coupon, say, $5 off, and you're going to double the cost of the search. *




Uh.... I think you need to think that through a bit more.

Lets assume there are 20,000 submissions, from say 10,000 sources.

You can send out a reasonably nice bulk letter for around 60 cents including postage.

That is 6K.

When you consider what this contest is costing them its a drop in the bucket.  The real question there is time, and you can hire some college kid for 8 Bucks an hour for data entery... no big expense there.

Coupons?  Coupons are just good business.

River


----------



## Mistwell

*Re: Re: Re: contest? we don' need no stinkin' contests!*



			
				Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Except it fails at one important element in determining it to be a contest. You are not purchasing a chance for winning, you are submitting a proposal to be considered for publication. The person selected is being compensated for services rendered (compiling the setting bible), not being given a prize. This takes this event well out of the contest territory. *




Good to know you are an expert on the contest laws of all 50 states, and all countries.


----------



## Storm Raven

*Re: Re: Re: Re: contest? we don' need no stinkin' contests!*



			
				Mistwell said:
			
		

> *Good to know you are an expert on the contest laws of all 50 states, and all countries. *




Reasonably conversant in the area of the law, as all attorney's should be. Perhaps you could give us a citation to laws that would vary widely from basic format of state contest laws in such a way that would include the WotC setting submission process as it is structured within them.

Until then, you are just being an alarmist with nothing to go on but wild eyed supposition.


----------



## River

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If you ARE an attorney, then you know it is the attorney generals office of Florida who likes to bring these suits, on their own (or other states).  Individuals don't bring a suit (there is no individual cause of action that I know of for failure to register), it's the state itself, for avoiding the registration fees and acting contrary to public policy. *




I've never been near a gaming case.  I've done nothing but criminal and contracts my whole career, and only a brief touch with criminal, so I haven't got a clue what the rules are, and I'm not going to spend good money on a westlaw search for something I don't particularly care about .

Speaking to my area, the contract looked like a solid unilateral contract to me!    Acceptance by performance 

And there could be a cause of action if one is created by statute... I've just never looked.

But who would be such a thug?  The guy who sued EA because Ultima Online had a lot of lag?


River


----------



## isirga eth

*but... but...*

I'm not a lawyer. 

AV already SAID it wasn't a contest per se, so there's no point to discuss. 

Besides you're diverting Zulkir's attention from the point, which is: 

what happens if my submission arrives after July 3rd? I don't want to be eliminated just because of a slow postal service!!


----------



## River

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: contest? we don' need no stinkin' contests!*



			
				Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Reasonably conversant in the area of the law, as all attorney's should be. *




I for one will become conversant when .... uh.... um...... I see no need ever to become conversant in this area of law.  Perhaps if I had to for a specific case?  Or if I saw a class on it and needed continuing ed hours....

"Gaming law" is not of the California bar exam, I doubt its on the Nevada Bar exam.

River


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Re: rejection "letters"*



			
				Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Uh-huh. How do you propose to create such a database cost free in the first place? *




If you are refering to creating an actual Access based (or any other for that matter) data base that is complicated and such, then yes, it could cost upwards of $3 thousand dollars to create one.  But that isn't the case.

Any administrative assistant worth his/her salt, is going to know the data base function of a word processing program like Word or Word Perfect.  Its actually one of the temp agency test criteria to know how to build a data base and how to merge a data base entry(ies) into a letter and/or envelope address.  The word processing programs have a VERY easy to follow wizard FE to create the data base fields, and then has a very nice FE for entering all your data.  All you gotta do is know how to do it, which all Administrative Assistants should.

So the cost is paying Christina to do it, which they've already invested in her doing anyways by assigning her to this project.  She is probably doing this as her ONLY duty to them.

That being said, WotC, being a large corporation, probably already has thousands of data base templates for Word/Word Perfect, if not a custom Access (or other program) based data base already created a long time ago.  It shouldn't be very difficult to open a separate data base file for this project specifically.  The creation of the data base is the low end of the cost.  The most expensive part is the Data Entry.

Andy Christian


----------



## River

*Re: Its Monday*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.
> *




My condolences on your doomed-ness.  Any idea how many submissions you've gotten to date?


River


----------



## Hakkenshi

> what happens if my submission arrives after July 3rd? I don't want to be eliminated just because of a slow postal service!!





How far ARE you, isirga?  I mean, for it to take more than 12 DAYS??? Granted, I'm no expert on the postal service, but that seems like an insanely long time.

Mine was sent on the 20th, and they swore it wouldn't take longer than 4-6 days to get there...it had better not!


----------



## isirga eth

*I'm from Mexico...*

And it's not about the distance, but the general laziness of most Mexican public servants - my submission could take up to two full weeks to arrive... but I DID send it before the deadline, so I think it would be unfair to lose because a slacking postal service... 

And yes, I'd rather see this thread focused on getting a response to these topics instead of discussing law verbatim, thank you very much.


----------



## Storm Raven

*Re: Re: Re: rejection "letters"*



			
				Tallow said:
			
		

> *So the cost is paying Christina to do it, which they've already invested in her doing anyways by assigning her to this project.  She is probably doing this as her ONLY duty to them.*




And you entirely miss the point that if she were not putatively tied up doing a massive amount of data entry, she could be working on other projects. Which means that, yes, having her work on this sort of thing _does_ cost them money.


----------



## Writer@Large

*Re: but... but...*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *what happens if my submission arrives after July 3rd? I don't want to be eliminated just because of a slow postal service!! *




Fear not, isirga.  I suspect that around the first of the month, we're going to hear about WotC's new, extended deadline for notifying the winning entries.  I'm guessing they don't finish it until after the 4th of July weekend.  

--Brian P. Hudson, OneShots.com Guy.


----------



## zilch

I sent my entry from England on the Thursday before the deadline. They told me it would take five to seven days to reach Wizards.


----------



## Lady Dragon

WoTC is going to get the names and addresses of thousands of there most core customers do you really think they won't put them into a database and at the very least E-mail everyone with a short note of sorry your submission wasn't accepted.Or even drop a postcard into the mail after all these people aren't just nameless applicants they are there customers and they probably are some of there better customers. Afterall if you care enough about the game to have created your own setting you also probably own more than just the players handbook.


----------



## Jamie44

*A lot better*



> 1 in 10,000....
> 1 in 20,000....
> 
> Still better than the lottery.




A LOT better. In more ways than one. If they get 20k entries, that doesn't equal 20k ppl. I sent 2 myself and I know others sent more than 1.

Also everyone isn't on equal ground. Not like with random lottery number. Not to sound harsh but a  portion of the entries will probably suck. I don't know if that will be 1/4 or 1/2 or 1/300. While some will be Ok and others excellent.

Too many factors to even think about. Judges fatigue from reading so many entries. Accidently skipping an entry that is stuck to another entry. etc...

From my pov a Great submission has nice odds, though. If you did good then you have a favorable chance to win. I guess that's a 'duh' statement, considering this is mostly about talent and creativity.


----------



## reddist

[Originally posted by Lady Dragon ]
*WoTC is going to get the names and addresses of thousands of there most core customers *

Indeed.  Everybody is so quick to point out that this is a phenomenal marketing ploy by WotC.  It is, and in more ways than one.  You can be sure they are going to note who sends them submissions.  We are their fans, the people who buy their stuff, and the people who are most likely to buy MORE of their stuff.  I would not be surprised in the slightest if we start getting WotC mailers after this...

... of course, the people who attend this board are generally well aware of what is coming out, who is writing it, what is being delayed, etc., and even the Wizards themselves drop by here to fill us in from time to time, but most of the entrants will not be EN regulars, or even regulars at the wizards boards. 

But now WotC knows who they are, and how to reach them


-Reddist


----------



## Lady Dragon

I think people need to realize that Joe smhoe's chances of winning are less that 1 in 20,000 while Monte Cook and other big name writers chances are more like 1 in 100. Do you really think that the Admin isn't going to put submissions by known professional writers in a special make sure you read these first pile or at least a make sure you read the whole submission pile and not just glance over it especially with the enormous amout of submissions they have recieved they'll want to make sure they don't miss somebody important.


----------



## Maraxle

Personally, I am quite thankful for this great opportunity.  If it is a ploy to put together a nice mailing list, so be it.  It is worth receiving a few mailings for the opportunity to share my creation with the world.


----------



## reddist

Lady Dragon said:
			
		

> *I think people need to realize that Joe smhoe's chances of winning are less that 1 in 20,000 while Monte Cook and other big name writers chances are more like 1 in 100. *




AV has stressed that, while people like Monte Cook, Clark Peterson, in-house WotC designers, etc., are all sending submissions, that the selection process will be utterly and completely blind.  I will take him at his word on that. 

If a "BIG NAME" author or game designer DOES win, WotC runs the risk of being accused of having "rigged" the selection process.  In the case of such an event, they will have to be able to show that the process was blind and equally fair to all entrants.  They don't have a choice, really.

Hell, with Hasbro being such a large company, and with the likelihood that Christina (bless her!) was hired or selected specifically for the sorting process, she might have no idea who Monte Cook is

-Reddist


----------



## Lady Dragon

Reddist I hope you are right about that I guess I'm just a cynic and I wish Cristina all the luck in the world these are going to be two difficult weeks for her.


----------



## shadoth

Uh, maybe I'm pointing out the obvious. People like Monte Cook and other 'big name' submitters became big name cuz they're good at this stuff. Don't be surprised if the winner is someone you've heard of before, simply because people you've heard of are really good at designing games.

shad


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: Hosed...*



> *Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed...  ...I'm not kidding, we are really hosed over here. *




Anthony, I know that everyone there will be doing the best they can with the resources they are given.  I do think it would be hysterical to take a few snapshots of the sheer mass of mail and post them on the website so everyone has a picture of what you're going through.  If there is anything that we can do to help, don't hesitate to name it.


----------



## reddist

Oh I'm not saying that Monte (for example) doesn't have a better shot at it than the rest of us, I'm just saying that all of our applications will be given the same consideration that Monte's is given, because the reviewers won't know which is Monte's or which is Joe Average's.

That's all.

The best 10 should move forward.  I'm sure those with more experience, skill, and creativity will do better that those without, and yes, the Big Names have got the juice.  That's why they are Big Names.

-Reddist


----------



## Parcher

Two things. Well, three, actually.

First, let me again stress that the review process for the submissions is blind. None of the committee reviewing them has any idea of any name associated with any particular submission. That's why we were so particular about where your name should be placed on the submission. We didn't want it someplace where Christina might miss it when she was doing the blinding process.

Second, we will, I stress, will, send out notes to everyone who submitted, notifying you of the status of your submission (that is, if you were or were not selected to move on to the second round of the process). We're fully aware this is a big job, but we feel we owe it to all of you who took the time to send in submissions.

Third and by no means least important, Christina has done a magnificent job in coping with the volume of submissions that have arrived. All of us owe her a big debt of gratitude for handling this unusual situation with calm and good humor.


----------



## Rasyr

Parcher said:
			
		

> *Third and by no means least important, Christina has done a magnificent job in coping with the volume of submissions that have arrived. All of us owe her a big debt of gratitude for handling this unusual situation with calm and good humor. *




hehe... When this is all over and done with, maybe you guys ought to give her a nice big bonus check....


----------



## Ghostwind

*stop the legal bickering*

Folks, let's nip a few things in the bud now so we can stop some of this endless prattle...

First, the Open Call by Wizards is in no way a monetary contest.  It breaks no legal laws in any state.  It is a request for an original idea that Wizards of the Coast will purchase the rights to, plain and simple.  Your chances of being selected cannot be calculated into an accurate statistical probability because this is not a random draw like a lottery or contest.  This is a selection *based solely upon your ability to write in a clean and concise manner that conveys your world idea in a manner which impresses Wotc*.  The monetary aspect is a purchase agreement and nothing more.

Secondly, if your entry was postmarked by the proper date, I am certain that it will be read and considered even if it arrives after the July 3rd announcement date.  If your proposal is so good that Wotc feels it warrants a 10 page expansion, you will be contacted.  

Remember, Wotc stated that  *up to ten proposals* may be selected.  They don't have to select ten.  This also means that they can select more if they so deem - after all, they are the ones making the decisions.  Considering the sheer amount of mail coming in, you could indeed see that 10 page selection number increase depending on the quality of the submissions.  I do not doubt that the selection of 3 entries and then a final "winner" will remain unchanged, however.

Finally, given the volumes of mail coming in, I doubt we will ever know the total number of submissions and I think to continually ask that Wotc keep track is unreasonable and will only serve to distract and delay them from the primary goal of going through all of the entries in a timely manner.

Let's just sit back, quit speculating, and wait for Wotc to get through everything.  There is nothing anyone can do at this point other than worry yourselves senseless for no reason...


----------



## MavrickWeirdo

*960*

960 Replies and still the system hasn't crashed; Good work Morris


----------



## trix

> Finally, given the volumes of mail coming in, I doubt we will ever know the total number of submissions and I think to continually ask that Wotc keep track




haiku:

they contact everyone
a spreadsheet is involved
count all rows



-Tim


----------



## isirga eth

*yep...*

...yer right. 

But I think I in fact have a PRETTY GOOD reason for being worried senseless (which I admit I am)...


----------



## Tallow

trix said:
			
		

> *
> 
> haiku:
> 
> they contact everyone
> a spreadsheet is involved
> count all rows
> 
> 
> 
> -Tim *




First Column Numbered
So Counting is not Needed
How simple is that


----------



## Zappo

LOL @ trix & Tallow!


----------



## Zulkir

Lady Dragon said:
			
		

> *I think people need to realize that Joe smhoe's chances of winning are less that 1 in 20,000 while Monte Cook and other big name writers chances are more like 1 in 100. Do you really think that the Admin isn't going to put submissions by known professional writers in a special make sure you read these first pile or at least a make sure you read the whole submission pile and not just glance over it especially with the enormous amout of submissions they have recieved they'll want to make sure they don't miss somebody important. *




This is a truely blind process. Submissions are numbered by their arrival. We have no way of knowing who sent us the submission. If someone tried to subvert the process, say by casually putting thier name in the middle of the page, that submission would be disqualified.

AV


----------



## The It's Man

Zulkir said:
			
		

> (...)*
> If someone tried to subvert the process, say by casually putting thier name in the middle of the page, that submission would be disqualified.
> AV *




AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH, why did I choose _The It's Man_ as my screenname. I couldn't avoid using "it's" in my submission (spelling it "it is" a couple of times would have forced me to make the margin's even smaller or use an even smaller font - I hope the punched holes in the paper will save me from disqualifying...


----------



## Darraketh

*Re: stop the legal bickering*



			
				Ghostwind said:
			
		

> *Finally, given the volumes of mail coming in, I doubt we will ever know the total number of submissions and I think to continually ask that Wotc keep track is unreasonable and will only serve to distract and delay them from the primary goal of going through all of the entries in a timely manner.
> *




If they are sending out notices, I think they are keeping track.

Even so I do believe it is to early to come up with a total.


----------



## RobMuadib

*Got my rejection letter today.........*

I'm kind of bummed, got my rejection email today. It was kind of Harsh. Here it is below.


---------------------------------------------------------------------------
Dear Contestant

Thank you for entering our Fantasy Setting Search. Unfortunately, your setting sucked. No one here liked it, except for our paper shredder. But hey at least you got some use out of those stamps before the price went up.  Loser. We were forced to waste precious minutes of our life reading your drivel. We want them back.  

Unlike yourself, a pathetic fanboy game nerd, we have a life. We could have done something with our weekends, instead of poring over the endless wanking of a bunch of foaming at the mouth munchkins who still live in their parent's basement. 

Just to be fair, we will give you a second chance, you can send in a 100 page setting bible. We will give it a second look. However, we require that you write it in your own blood, all of it. If you have any left over after writing your proposal, just send it in along with your submission. 

Again, thank you for entering our contest. Not!


Sincerely

Fantasy Setting Search Committe

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I think all the extra work of going over the submissions is getting to them, or something 

Rob Muadib

(Who is wondering what the rejection letters WILL look like, if they actually send any out.)


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: Its Monday*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Saw the bins of mail this morning. We are so doomed.
> <snip>
> I'm not kidding, we are really hosed over here. *



Then forget about the 1st round.  Declare us all winners and have us all submit the 10 pagers.


----------



## The_Hag

*Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				trix said:
			
		

> *
> The biggest problem I came up with was the name of the world.
> *




Indo-European roots can be good sources of aural suggestion. Words got power.

The Hag


----------



## NoOneofConsequence

Mistwell said:
			
		

> *A quick comparison of odds to cool down this "contest" fevor a bit:
> 
> The odds of winning the Trifecta at the Derby horse races (picking 1st, 2nd, & 3rd Place all in one shot) are 1 in 1,321.
> 
> This "contest" is 1 in 20,000.
> 
> In fact, the odds are so against "winning" that I think they may have just blown some contest laws in a few states (Florida comes to mind).  I'm an attorney, and I have a bit of experience in contest laws (though not a lot).  I seem to recall that if your odds get into this range, and the "contest" is public (and not just a solicitation sent to individuals that the company has a pre-existing business relationship with), that even if the contest is purported to be based on skill rather than chance, you must register with some State gaming commissions in order for participants to be eligible to "play" in certain states.  I wonder if Wizards' corp. counsel has looked into this aspect yet. *




I think that seeing this in terms of a contest is a misnomer. It's really a call for expressions of interest in tendering for a development project. I think that's why Wizards has been so strict on the submission guidelines and why they're putting it through so many stages. It's not a lottery with a minor skill test thrown in to dodge the law (something that's actually very common in Australia). It's the first stage of a tendering process.


----------



## Ranes

Okay, I've read all 49 pages over the last few weeks and the low points have been the database doom mongers and the alleged attorneys. What is the proper collective noun for attorneys anyway, an objection?

Trix had the best suggestion of late a few pages back. Who else would like to see the WotC Bin-Cam? It would only need to be updated once a day, just after the mail arrives. It could be set up by one of the WotC R&Ders. After all, it's not like they're busy developing new campaign settings.

Just kidding, folks. Aw, flame me anyway.

Ranes


----------



## Rasyr

*Re: Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				The_Hag said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Indo-European roots can be good sources of aural suggestion. Words got power.
> 
> The Hag *




I actually got the name of my world from my own mispronouncing the name on a street sign.

I had swapped two letters and added an extra letter by accident, and BOOM! My setting had a name......


----------



## Irysangel

*As a side note...*

To the folks that were discussing the 50% taxes on your 'winnings'.  I actually do accounting for a living, and if, according to the way they're describing this, was a prize, then yes, you would pay an enormous amount of taxes on this.


However....

You are contracting for WotC provided they pick you.  Thus they are writing you a fat contract-labor check for $120K approximately.  Rather than put you on the payroll (and pay taxes/benefits for you as an employee), they are handing you the money. *You* are responsible for your own taxes come April 15.  Depending on your income for the year (and since we're gamers, it might not be much ), you will be responsible for 15.3% before any federal on the $120K (for SS & Med) and then of course, federal taxes.  $120K falls into the 25-30 % category if I'm correct.  Again, however, you are only taxed 25-30% of a particular amount of this money (depending on your claimants for the year.  It also depends on how much additional you've earned for the year (ie. regular salary).

Anyhoo, to break it down, without any extra income coming in, I calculated this at S/1 and got about $25K in federal taxes, and approx $10K for SS,  and $9K again for Medicare.  So out of the $120K you see about 75K.

There's lots more variables of course, but that's just a ballpark for those wondering.  I'd get more detailed but I don't have a Circular-E in front of me.

Well, that and I just geeked myself out to the point of embarassment.

(I think I'm the only one that was dwelling on this for a while.  Don't mind me while I go back into my hole).


----------



## Jamie44

*Nah*



> Well, that and I just geeked myself out to the point of embarassment.




Nah! I hadn't really thought the tax part out yet so that saved me precious thinking energy which I have now spent posting. So I guess i lost it anyway...oh well. Blast.

Of course you could just take the money and not report it. I guess that would be breaking the law, though. Makes me wonder how much money ppl get and just don't report. Hmm.


----------



## Tallow

*Re: Nah*



			
				Jamie44 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Nah! I hadn't really thought the tax part out yet so that saved me precious thinking energy which I have now spent posting. So I guess i lost it anyway...oh well. Blast.
> 
> Of course you could just take the money and not report it. I guess that would be breaking the law, though. Makes me wonder how much money ppl get and just don't report. Hmm. *




I would really advise against it, especially for anything over $1,000.  I think you can get paid like $999 without having to report paying someone (this is the employer).  You better believe, especially since they are writing a check, that WotC is going to claim the payment on their tax return.  They will probably file a 1099 with the IRS.  If you don't claim it, you better believe that the IRS is going to find it and audit the hell outta you.

You DON'T want to pay the penalties for that.

Andy Christian


----------



## Mistwell

reddist said:
			
		

> *[Originally posted by Lady Dragon ]
> WoTC is going to get the names and addresses of thousands of there most core customers
> 
> Indeed.  Everybody is so quick to point out that this is a phenomenal marketing ploy by WotC.  It is, and in more ways than one.  You can be sure they are going to note who sends them submissions.  We are their fans, the people who buy their stuff, and the people who are most likely to buy MORE of their stuff.  I would not be surprised in the slightest if we start getting WotC mailers after this...
> *




Well, if the entries do become a free mailing list for WOTC direct mail sales, that would pretty much seal the deal on this being a contest under several gaming/promotions/contest state laws (no matter what people call it, claim it is, think it is, or compare it to).

It would be a bad idea to spam the entrants.


----------



## Michelle Lyons

*Re: As a side note...*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> Anyhoo, to break it down, without any extra income coming in, I calculated this at S/1 and got about $25K in federal taxes, and approx $10K for SS,  and $9K again for Medicare.  So out of the $120K you see about 75K.
> 
> [/B]




No, I'd been pondering the exact same thing. Thank you. That helps tremendously.


----------



## Ghostwind

*Spending the winnings already*

Since some folks are already worried about taxes and spending the money before it's even been awarded, let me give one little piece of professional advice to the lucky people who are selected to write the 100 page setting and ultimately, the final one chosen:

If you do not have an accountant at this point, get one.  A good accountant will help you in many ways, especially when it comes to taking the sting out of the 1099 form and taxes in general.  A follow-up piece of advice that ties to the first is save your receipts for anything that can be quantified as related to the income you received.  This means saving all those receipts for your gaming books which just became resource and reference material and therefore deductible under expenses.  Printer paper, ink cartridges, pens, etc. also fall into this category.

Nearly everyone who writes professionally either has an accountant on retainer or else is tax saavy enough to handle things on his/her own.  The savings my accountant finds on my return alone more than justifies his fees.  And I suspect this is the case across the board with other writers.

Just something else to ponder for those of you who are already planning on how to spend those dollars...


----------



## mirzabah

*Re: Re: Re: Re: Story Line . . . ?*



			
				Rasyr said:
			
		

> *I actually got the name of my world from my own mispronouncing the name on a street sign.
> 
> I had swapped two letters and added an extra letter by accident, and BOOM! My setting had a name......
> *



I had a name I was pretty happy with, but before I submitted I thought I'd just do a quick search on Google to see if it was in use anywhere. Turns out it was the name of a crap fantasy book (good title, though ), so I thought about it some more and came up with a name that was tons better


----------



## kenjib

So, 20,000 entries at an estimated average of 2 hours a piece.  What else could be accomplished with 40,000 man-hours of labor?

Hmmm....any ideas?


----------



## mirzabah

Anybody up for a race to 1000 replies?


----------



## your father is

kenjib said:
			
		

> *
> Hmmm....any ideas? *




  Do you have any idea what kind of a pandora's box you are opening up here, kenjib?  If anything has been proved around here in the last few days it is that we as a group are absolutely chocked full of ideas.

  Would you like those ideas in singe page form?


----------



## Duncan Haldane

*Re: As a side note...*



			
				Irysangel said:
			
		

> *Anyhoo, to break it down, without any extra income coming in, I calculated this at S/1 and got about $25K in federal taxes, and approx $10K for SS,  and $9K again for Medicare.  So out of the $120K you see about 75K.*




That is assuming that the winner is from the US.  WotC will receive a lot of submissions from outside the US.  



Duncan


----------



## Matt Black

kenjib said:
			
		

> *So, 20,000 entries at an estimated average of 2 hours a piece.  What else could be accomplished with 40,000 man-hours of labor?
> 
> Hmmm....any ideas? *




Two hours a piece?? If that was the average time spent on proposals, maybe I do have a chance 
afterall. I think the average might be more like 12 hours. We spent maybe 30 hours on ours, but 
then we're quite anal. How much time did other people spend?

MB


----------



## Jamie44

It took me a few hours each to type up mine. I had already been thinking about them, though.


----------



## kenjib

Matt Black said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Two hours a piece?? If that was the average time spent on proposals, maybe I do have a chance
> afterall. I think the average might be more like 12 hours. We spent maybe 30 hours on ours, but
> then we're quite anal. How much time did other people spend?
> 
> MB *




Good point.  I spent more than two myself, but I figured I should account for the people who squeezed out some quick entries.

Okay, then how about 60,000 man-hours?  Given 40 hour work weeks that's 1500 man-weeks of work, or approximately 28 or 29 people working for a year.  Maybe not as much as it sounded like to me at first now that I break it down, but still alot.


----------



## NoOneofConsequence

kenjib said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Good point.  I spent more than two myself, but I figured I should account for the people who squeezed out some quick entries.
> 
> Okay, then how about 60,000 man-hours?  Given 40 hour work weeks that's 1500 man-weeks of work, or approximately 28 or 29 people working for a year.  Maybe not as much as it sounded like to me at first now that I break it down, but still alot. *




1500 person weeks  of work? I think we just built a small town.


----------



## damnit!

Matt Black said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Two hours a piece?? If that was the average time spent on proposals, maybe I do have a chance
> afterall. I think the average might be more like 12 hours. We spent maybe 30 hours on ours, but
> then we're quite anal. How much time did other people spend?
> 
> MB *






I was just the editor, and I personally spent more than two hours.  Then again, if English was my partner's primary language, maybe I would have spent less time.  (Spellcheckers only make sure words are spelled correctly, not that they are used properly, or not repeated repetitiously...  )


----------



## Altmann

*Re: I'm from Mexico...*



			
				isirga eth said:
			
		

> *And it's not about the distance, but the general laziness of most Mexican public servants - my submission could take up to two full weeks to arrive... but I DID send it before the deadline, so I think it would be unfair to lose because a slacking postal service...
> *




Well, one letter from Argentina took about 10 years to arrive to my parents 



> *
> And yes, I'd rather see this thread focused on getting a response to these topics instead of discussing law verbatim, thank you very much. *




Same here.


----------



## Zappo

I recall reading on a local newspaper about a letter sent during WW2 which arrived about a couple of years ago.


----------



## Lady Dragon

I spent a two whole day on it anyone that did it in 2-3 hours can't have a very good proposel It took me 2-3 hours just to type it the first time.


----------



## Ghostwind

> *I spent a two whole day on it anyone that did it in 2-3 hours can't have a very good proposel It took me 2-3 hours just to type it the first time. *




This is not necesarily true.  Your skill as a writer is not necessarily tied to the amount of time spent on the project.  Some people take longer to puts their thoughts on paper in a professional manner than others.  Much of that has to do with your grasp of the English language, grammar, and spelling.  If you are good at writing then the time spent should be less than those who aren't.  Therefore you shouldn't claim that anyone that takes less 3 hours couldn't possibly have a decent proposal because I am certain that nearly everyone who did it in that time or less will disagree.  And I'll bet that some of those folks made up some pretty outstanding proposals.


----------



## Storm Raven

Lady Dragon said:
			
		

> *I spent a two whole day on it anyone that did it in 2-3 hours can't have a very good proposel It took me 2-3 hours just to type it the first time. *




That depends upon a number of factors.

(1) Your skill as a writer.
(2) Your familiarity with your proposed setting.
(3) The nature of your proposed setting.
(4) Your speed as a typist.

A highly skilled writer with good typing skills submitting a world proposal for a reasonably straightforward setting he is intimately familiar with could easily have turned out a high quality submission in an hour or two. _I_ took longer than that, because although I'm pretty good as a writer and fairly familiar with my setting materials, I'm not that fast of a typist, and my setting has some somewhat complicated elements. But I could easily see someone doing their submission quicker.


----------



## Darraketh

My submission weighed in at 206 words. In spite of it's brevity I spent a considerable amount of time editing, two complete rewrites and about five drafts.

With the exception of a few ideas that had been banging around in my head for years and an old handdrawn map from 1989, I made it up as I went along.


I have to say that I am so glad that everyone will be notified. The agony of not being selected and not knowing if my submmission even made it there is extremely uncomfortable.

BTW, if I am rejected I'll frame my rejection notice. I would represent my first attempt at getting published. I'd be hard pressed to think of a more prestigious rejection from this field.


----------



## seasong

Matt Black said:
			
		

> *Two hours a piece?? If that was the average time spent on proposals, maybe I do have a chance afterall. I think the average might be more like 12 hours. We spent maybe 30 hours on ours, but then we're quite anal. How much time did other people spend?*




I spent somewhere around 20+, but I'm a slow editor.

Like with the word count thing, I don't think it's really how much time you spent, so much as it is how much time you needed to turn your first draft into a jewel. Some people's first draft is simply going to be easier to fix.


----------



## Tallow

Storm Raven said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That depends upon a number of factors.
> 
> (1) Your skill as a writer.
> (2) Your familiarity with your proposed setting.
> (3) The nature of your proposed setting.
> (4) Your speed as a typist.
> 
> A highly skilled writer with good typing skills submitting a world proposal for a reasonably straightforward setting he is intimately familiar with could easily have turned out a high quality submission in an hour or two. I took longer than that, because although I'm pretty good as a writer and fairly familiar with my setting materials, I'm not that fast of a typist, and my setting has some somewhat complicated elements. But I could easily see someone doing their submission quicker. *




I'm sorta agree with you, and sorta don't.

I probably spent 5 hours on this total.  It probably took me less than 45 minutes to write my first draft.  1) I'm an exceptionally fast typist (77 wpm).  2) I learned by playing MUDs and hanging in chat rooms how to type as I think.  In other words its almost near real time at the speed I talk.  3) I have had my setting in my head for over 3 years now, revising, recreating, etc.

The revision of my paper took MUCH longer.  I'd say that the rewrite of the core ethos sentence took me at least an hour to get it exactly the way I wanted it.

So saying that those who only spent 3 hours wrote bad submissions is a false statement, because some people are just as good at typing down their thoughts as I am (or better) and they are more polished writers, needing less revision time.

But on the flip side, I'd wager that the percentage of those who wrote papers in 2 hours or less who handed in their first draft, is at about 95%.

Andy Christian


----------



## Mercule

Matt Black said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Two hours a piece?? If that was the average time spent on proposals, maybe I do have a chance
> afterall. I think the average might be more like 12 hours. We spent maybe 30 hours on ours, but
> then we're quite anal. How much time did other people spend?
> 
> MB *




I think mine was something more akin to 40 hours, not including the dedicated thought time I gave it while driving, showering, etc.

Of course, I had four people reviewing each of four drafts before my final submission, and I don't know how long each of them spent on each review.

I'm a very fast typist and my world is almost 20 years old.  Unfortunately, I have a tendancy to get quite wordy (thus the editors).  Also, there was such a hugh volume of material on my world that it was very hard for me to pick just the right items to include.

The worst part, though, was that since my world and my DMing style are so intertwined it was difficult for me to answer question #6 with content and not style.  I'm very glad that one of my editors was a player in my game for the last 10 or so years.


----------



## Glog

It has been my experience that most good writers are adequate typists.  That comes with experience.  The more you write, the more familiar you are with the keyboard.  What takes time is phrasing and editing.  As Storm Raven already stated, familiarity with your proposed setting and the vision you have for your product can make a huge difference between the 2 hour and 30 hour submissions.

It's not the length of the stick, but how you use it that counts.  Or at least that's what I keep hearing from people over and over again for some reason.


----------



## Darraketh

Mercule said:
			
		

> *
> 
> ...not including the dedicated thought time I gave it while driving, showering, etc.
> *




Yeah, that was me too.


----------



## Bombastus

Lady Dragon said:
			
		

> *I spent a two whole day on it anyone that did it in 2-3 hours can't have a very good proposel It took me 2-3 hours just to type it the first time. *




For me, I know that my submission took my entire life to write.  I realized during one of my final drafts that I was about to send them a real piece of myself.  As a result I feel so raw, waiting for the outcome.  Before I usually felt numb and a fake kind of anxiety already knowing deep down that I didn't make the cut.   

I must have went to the writer's heaven that we hear about.  The secret to me getting there was by being willing to listen to inspiration even when it came from parts of myself that I was not comfortable with.  It was a real rush.

Or.  I am even further in denial of the degree to which I suck.  Either way, it's bliss!     

Maggie


----------



## Glog

That's the joy and sorrow of writing for a living, I expect.  It can be a very personal experience and you have to make sure that you seperate that on the back end but keep it on the front end.  That's one of the reasons why many writers are a little off, occasionally have difficulty dealing with people and turn to nastier habits to dull their pain.

But as long as you love the way it makes you feel on the front end, you will hopefully come back to it.  And then you will get better with each iteration.  While nothing hurts quite as much as the rejection, few things feel quite as good as being accepted and knowing that thousands of people will come to read your material and use it to craft worlds and stories for years to come.

Savor those feelings and use them to make yourself a better writer.


----------



## Bombastus

Glog said:
			
		

> *While nothing hurts quite as much as the rejection, few things feel quite as good as being accepted and knowing that thousands of people will come to read your material and use it to craft worlds are stories for years to come.
> 
> Savor those feelings and use them to make yourself a better writer. *




     That's the thing.  I'm wondering if it won't be just the opposite.  I used to get so "dramatic" over my rejection letters, telling myself "oh boo hoo, I am such a great writer and no one is kewl enough to understand me".   I really thought that was true.  

     Looking back, however, what really upset me was the fact that I had compromised my integrity by sending in something that I knew sucked, that I knew I had not done my absolute best, that I had wasted my own time.  For me, that's where the pain of writing lies, that my inability to get published mirrors my occasional impotence as a human being.  It's all connected.  The rejection letters were really saying to me "Maggie, thank you for reaching out.  Don't submit to us again until you get some therapy, a lot of therapy. We'd like to see something from the perspective of a grown up, not a child who blames the world for her own incompetence." So every time I write and then get rejected I have to look and see the bigger, unimplied "why".  

     I'm sure for other writer's it is the same.  Perhaps their conscience hears something like "Please don't submit to us until you get over your drug addiction" or "Please don't write if you have to sacrifice your relationships to do so." etc...

     Honestly, I think the worse thing that could happen to a writer is for them to get published when they knew they didn't deserve it on some level.  My bet is THAT is why so many successful writers end up destroying themselves.  I think luck, style, creativity, and good grammar have nothing to do with success. The proof is in the pudding.   My bet is that people succeed or fail at writing (or anything) because it is what will get them closer to the truth about themselves.  

   How about them apples?  So, on this level, the WotC setting search is about thousands of people searching for the truth about themselves, and how great that WotC is going to send all of us a letter one way or the other so that we can't blame the result of our efforts on the postal system.   

Maggie


----------



## Mercule

Bombastus said:
			
		

> *
> Honestly, I think the worse thing that could happen to a writer is for them to get published when they knew they didn't deserve it on some level.  *




I'm quite certain that there are several entries that are plenty worthy of getting published.  In fact, not all the "worthies" will likely even make the first cut of ten.  Believe me, whoever gets the $100,000 contract will very much deserve it.

Even if it's not the absolute _best_ they could have done, that's where the preferrential treatment for future freelance projects comes in.  Ya think maybe Ed's gotten the Realms a bit more polished in the last 15 or so years?


----------



## Scribe Ineti

Mercule said:
			
		

> *Ya think maybe Ed's gotten the Realms a bit more polished in the last 15 or so years? *




I thought about that while working on my proposals.  I went out and looked over the new FR campaign book, and had a momentary pang -- "How in the world will I be able to write a one-pager on my setting that is as deep and complex as FR?"

Then I rationalized it by thinking that FR wasn't conceived in its entirety at the beginning.  It's had years to grow and develop.


----------



## Glog

Absolutely, Mercule!  It's an ongoing process. 

You have to love writing and creating more than you enjoy bashing yourself.  Keep writing and eventually you'll find something good, whether in yourself or in your writing.  

Though mainstream success would be very satisfying, if joy doesn't flow from the process, or you don't excite yourself with a wonderful turn of phrase or the knowledge that you created something no one else could create, then I feel bad for you.  Write for yourself and if other people happen to find what you write interesting then you can make a career out of it.  If you don't write for yourself first and foremost, it is unlikely that you will find happiness in the world you have wrought.

Above all else, keep on writing.


----------



## GoldenEagle

*rejection*

If someone gets rejected here remember this:  They are rejecting a business proposal, not you.  Even though a company may not choose your submitted idea, it does not need to be your last idea; it may not even be your best.  To paraphrase a gentleman who summited Mt. Everest, it is okay to fall, just not to fail.  failure only occurs when you stop getting up after a fall.

This was my first submission after 20+ years of gaming, and I had fun.  I will submit something again even if I don't win...I hope if any of you had fun doing this that you will also!

BTW, Jester thanks for being so cool about the core ethos statement andeveryone else for the great tips (Steve C, Clark, et.al.)

Sincerely

John


----------



## Bombastus

Mercule said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm quite certain that there are several entries that are plenty worthy of getting published.  In fact, not all the "worthies" will likely even make the first cut of ten.  Believe me, whoever gets the $100,000 contract will very much deserve it.
> 
> Even if it's not the absolute _best_ they could have done, that's where the preferrential treatment for future freelance projects comes in.  Ya think maybe Ed's gotten the Realms a bit more polished in the last 15 or so years? *




Yes, I am very sure that the person getting the final contract will deserve it in the eyes of a vast majority of the gaming community.  I have no doubt of that.  I am already ready to buy the new setting and I don't even know what it is.

What I am suggesting is mostly off topic, that when I fail or succeed at something like a writing proposal, it has everything to do with my need to get to the truth.  Like someone else suggested, the rejection is the rejection of a business proposal not a person.  However, for me, in order to improve myself as a person and a writer I have to be willing look at my success or failure more personally rather than less.

Maggie


----------



## Glog

I agree with GE.  I have never submitted for something like this, though I have been gaming for 18 years. I really had a great time with this.  I think it was just a great exercise in getting everyone to think about what they love most in the games they play and the homeworlds and backstreet campaigns.  

For me it rekindled some of fun I used to have making up scenarios for my friends.  It evokes memories of the smell of the Basic set I bought at Sears, waxy dice with numbers colored in with crayon and my first GenCon.  Campaign worlds are a great springboard for ideas and there is no substitue for the satisfaction that comes with an original idea.   

This experience made me appreciate all of the work that goes into a game I have enjoyed for years.  I just hope I get an opportunity to contribute to its development.  That's what it's all about for me.


----------



## Mirth

Your item was delivered at 8:39 am on June 24, 2002 in RENTON, WA 98057. 

Thank god for delivery confirmation!

Now I sweat...

Good luck, everyone,

mirthcard


----------



## your father is

*let's talk characters*

In novels and campaign settings, do you prefer clear distinctions between the heroes and the villains or do you prefer more morally ambiguous characters with believable motivation?

  Both can work.  When playing a game it is often preferable to know who the bad-guys are.  When reading about a character, though, a little depth is a good thing.

  I think the new setting will have to be something that allows for sympathetic characters to come into conflict with each other, with no character absolutely good or evil.  That is why they asked specifically about conflict.

  Or do you think a world where characters would be more gray than merely black or white would be at a disadvantage?


----------



## NoOneofConsequence

Glog said:
			
		

> *It has been my experience that most good writers are adequate typists.  That comes with experience.  The more you write, the more familiar you are with the keyboard.  What takes time is phrasing and editing.  As Storm Raven already stated, familiarity with your proposed setting and the vision you have for your product can make a huge difference between the 2 hour and 30 hour submissions.
> 
> It's not the length of the stick, but how you use it that counts.  Or at least that's what I keep hearing from people over and over again for some reason. *




As a professional writer of non-fiction (I'm an historian and an educational researcher) I have to say that I come down on the side of saying that two to three hours, in most cases, cannot have been enough to get out your best work. Sure, when I'm writing first draft I can bang out about six hundred words an hour, but first draft doesn't cut it, at least not in my case. Personally, I spent several hours a night on my submission, every night for over a week. I didn't _have_ to spend that much time on it, I just wanted to make it as good as possible.

That being said, I do know there are some people who have exceptional talent as writers and can do in one hour what takes most mere mortals ten. However, these people are much rarer than you might think. I've never met one personally.

Final word (for now): whatever you chose to do with your submission, be happy with it. You took the decisions and invested the time you thought best. Be proud of your work, win or lose, and stand by it. After all, it's yours and yours alone.


----------



## Fast Learner

Bombastus said:
			
		

> *So, on this level, the WotC setting search is about thousands of people searching for the truth about themselves...*




I absolutely agree. Isn't it great how life works that way?

It's so cool to be alive.


----------



## Zulkir

*Helllp!*

Hellp, helllp, I'm drowning!

[sinks below sea of 8 1/2" X 11" papers]

AV


----------



## Bulsarra

*Dont give up*

You may be drowning but we're all grateful for your efforts and the rest of those involved at WotC. I know that myself and others had some reservations about D&D going to Wizards but so far its been nothing but great and this open call is just one more thing to get excited about. Even though I want to win, I think I'll remember the excitment of the past two weeks (and the next two) for a long while.

Now, get off the boards! My submission has been delivered to your office! Read! Read!


----------



## phillcalle

*Time, time, time*

It took me twenty hours to write and rewrite my team's proposal.  It's hard to count drafts when working on a computer, but I do know that my proposal went through four major stages and twice as many minor ones.

By the way, as an answer of sorts to those who think good writers can get away with taking less time to write their proposals, let me say that though I'm not a professional writer, I do have a master's degree, I am currently teaching English at a community college, and I'm a good typist.  It still took me a long time, and I've noticed that the older I've gotten and the better that I've gotten at writing, the more time I take to write.  At least for me, part of good writing is looking at my work from many different angles and thus many different drafts.


----------



## Duncan Haldane

*Re: Time, time, time*



			
				phillcalle said:
			
		

> *At least for me, part of good writing is looking at my work from many different angles and thus many different drafts. *




When I was still in school I wrote a short story.  A few days later I couldn't find it, so I wrote it again.  Then I found the original.

I put the two versions together to great a third version, which was definately the best of the three.

I found that this was a really good way for me to work on written pieces.  Write it once and hide it, then write it again after a break.  Then compare the two.  It means that I have two different perspectives on some scenes, different phrasing and even different ideas.

Then I sift through the versions and build the best.

Duncan


----------



## BeholderBurger

good idea chuck


----------



## Xeriar

*Re: Time, time, time*



			
				phillcalle said:
			
		

> By the way, as an answer of sorts to those who think good writers can get away with taking less time to write their proposals, let me say that though I'm not a professional writer, I do have a master's degree, I am currently teaching English at a community college, and I'm a good typist.  It still took me a long time, and I've noticed that the older I've gotten and the better that I've gotten at writing, the more time I take to write.  At least for me, part of good writing is looking at my work from many different angles and thus many different drafts.




Yeah, I wonder how many people actually payed attention to which words fit into which sentances.

Word claimed that the reading level required for my document was seventh grade (I believe that's where it counts syllables per word).

Going multisyllibic and ajectival on the peasentlike postieriors of the administrative reveiwers shall not do very well to elucidate your enlightened submission.


----------



## Xeriar

*Re: Helllp!*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Hellp, helllp, I'm drowning!
> 
> [sinks below sea of 8 1/2" X 11" papers]
> 
> AV *




If I flew over there with a couple dozen two-liters of A&W Cream Soda (can't have you reviewing drunk, sorry) would that count as a bribe?


----------



## EarthsShadow

*any updates from WotC*

Have any of you heard of any updates from Wizards about the contest for the setting?


----------



## Ghostwind

They are currently drowning in submissions.  We expect the body count to be quite high...


----------



## William Ronald

*Re: Helllp!!*

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Zulkir 
Hellp, helllp, I'm drowning!

[sinks below sea of 8 1/2" X 11" papers]

AV 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Let's throw a few life preservers and ropes to the people at WoTC.  

Seriously, I have to respect the effort that is going in to reviewing so many proposals.   I think after the second round entries are chosen, the people working on this deserve some time to recover.

Somehow, I cannot imagine a setting call like this taking place at TSR or any  other gaming company ten years ago.


----------



## dren

*please no delays!!!*

I'm hoping WoTC does not delay this contest. 

I'm getting married in early August, and the deadline for the 10 pager is very close to my wedding day. So, if the contest is delayed...and IF i get choosen, I might have to spend a portion of my honeymoon with a portable latop working on my submission!

My honeymoon is the one place where I did not expect to be lugging around my D&D books to. Ah well, I can always try to convince my fiancee that if I win 20G, it might actually pay for all the D&D books I've purchased in the last ten years.

Dren


----------



## Undead Pete

*Re: please no delays!!!*



			
				dren said:
			
		

> *I'm hoping WoTC does not delay this contest.
> 
> I'm getting married in early August, and the deadline for the 10 pager is very close to my wedding day. So, if the contest is delayed...and IF i get choosen, I might have to spend a portion of my honeymoon with a portable latop working on my submission!
> *




Hmmmmm.....  something tells me you won't get choosen


----------



## toberane

There has been a lot of discussion about how much time everyone spent on their submission. I ha ve my own beliefs on this, but it seems to me that there are as many different styles of writing and methods of doing so as there are people.  In a thread about creative writing a little while back, we had a discussion about the difference between "swoopers" and "plodders."  Swoopers swoop in with a massive creative burst and write, write, write, write, write, then go back and edit and rewrite as necessary.  Plodders agonize over every phrase and word choice, rewriting as they go, then probably go back and rewrite it several times over again.  Which is better?  

Neither, in my opinion.  If you are a plodder, then you work best in that manner.  You need to rewrite a sentence four or five times before moving on to the next one.  And the sentence is often much better because of it.  If this is what gets yiour creative juices going, great.  

If you are a swooper, you are concerned that you get all your ideas on paper as best you can, then you can go back and revise it.  If this is the way you work best, then that's great, too.

There isn't one method that works best.  Saying "You spent less than 20 hours on your submission, so it must suck" is ridiculous.  I know, for my part, if I had rewritten for 20-40 hours, I would have overworked it and overthought it, and I would have ended up with a product that was vastly inferior to the one I spent 3-4 hours on.  For me, there comes a time when I just have to say "It's done, let it go."  That doesn't mean I think that you guys who spent 150 hours per submission turned in bad ones.  Maybe that's what worked best for you.  Doesn't mean the same applies to me.


----------



## Zulkir

*Morning all*

Folks,
And to top it all off I'm sick. It just never ends around here. Legal has brought in a temp and we have hired an intern to try to help us keep up. Mail is finally slowing down probably only a thousand new entries today.

My favorite writing story:

End of the day Truman Capote and Norman Mailer were walking on the beach. Mailer says, "I wrote ten thousand words today, Truman. I'll bet you wrote one". Capote replies, "That's true, but it was the *right* one!"

AV

p.s. I have a picture of one days worth of mail if someone can tell me how to put a picture in a message.


----------



## Ghostwind

*Re: Morning all*



> *I have a picture of one days worth of mail if someone can tell me how to put a picture in a message. *




Anthony-

I would suggest posting it directly to the Wizards web site on the same page as where the open call was announced.  That way everyone can see it.


----------



## Undead Pete

mirthcard said:
			
		

> *Your item was delivered at 8:39 am on June 24, 2002 in RENTON, WA 98057.
> 
> Thank god for delivery confirmation!
> *




I finally checked my delivery confirmation:
Your item was delivered at 8:54 am on June 15, 2002 in RENTON, WA 98057 

That was FAST!  It took less than 2 days to arrive.  I guess that means my submission has already been read, and is now 
a) in the circular file
b) on some WoC staff dartboard
or.....
c) set aside for round 2 (SHYAAA RIGHT!!)

<SIGH>


----------



## Bombastus

*Re: Morning all*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *
> 
> p.s. I have a picture of one days worth of mail if someone can tell me how to put a picture in a message. *




Hit "reply to topic" and then click on the "IMG" button.  When I do that I get an Explorer User Prompt that requests an http file.  I assume you insert the file location of your image into that space or you can just type 

IMG your picture's file location /IMG  

with brackets around the "IMG" and "/IMG" commands.  I've never tried that before here, so this is my best guess. Good luck!


Maggie


----------



## mmadsen

*Re: Morning all*



> I have a picture of one days worth of mail if someone can tell me how to put a picture in a message.




If you want to post a picture here, you can either put it up on a web site somewhere and post the URL here -- the IMG button will put the proper vB code tags around it so that we all see the image -- or you can upload the image file directly from your machine to the vB server by attaching a file to your post.  At the bottom of the Post Reply page, just above the three big buttons (Submit Reply, Preview Reply, and Spellcheck), there's an Attach Files section with a Browse button.  It'll open a dialog box so you can find the image file on your own machine.


----------



## River

*Re: Morning all*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Folks,
> Legal has brought in a temp and we have hired an intern to try to help us keep up.
> 
> *




Man!  If I had known the fine minds of the legal dept (well interns in the legal department!) were going to be grading the enteries I would have sumbitted the world of Juris.

"A World where heroes fight monsters with injunctions and court orders, and don't collect their 40% share of the treasure untill the villagers win!"


Is it too late for a last minute entery?





River


----------



## isirga eth

*say guys...*

I see that the thread has taken a plunge for some obscure reason (I guess everyone at WotC's too busy counting submissions) but I have a question (and a perfect excuse to bump up the thread)...

Does any of you know where can I find the forum thread(s) on this topic at the wizards site? I've been browsing the site for a week now, and can't seem to find anything but the official announcement and rules - nothing at the message boards... anyone has the URL?


----------



## EOL

*Christina says there are about 10000*

Try this URL:

http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=135;t=011138

Christina has posted and said they've received about 10,000 entries.


----------



## mmadsen

*Re: Christina says there are about 10000*



> http://boards.wizards.com/rpg/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=135;t=011138




Here's what Christina Matthews had to say on that thread:


> Well, this week we have received 28 bins of mail. To give everyone an idea of how much that is, three bins is about 900 submissions which totals 8000 submissions this week alone. So total right now we have about 10,000 submissions.



I'm glad I'm not sorting through 28 bins of mail.  Wow.


----------



## trix

*3 days now . . .*

Well, 3 days remain.

Will they be ontime?

If they've got 10k entries, and a panel of 10, that should be enough to have it done in time.

Anyone finished their 10 pager?
Anyone finished their 100 pager?

What if their template for the 10 pager doesnt fit your 10 pager?

I hope the next-rounders will get to contest the format of the template giving them enough flexability to put across their world best.

One thing i found good with the prior template is that it forces you to evaluate yourself accordingly by ensuring a well formed structure.  If we didnt have a template, imagine the number of varied submissions they'd get.

GL to all.

-Tim


----------



## Avatar

*10,000*

Hey everyone,

I, like many others on this thread, am a first time poster.     First, I wanted to thank everyone for all their help and suggestions on this board, from the pros to the amatuers like me.

Special thanks to AV and PA for taking time out of reading the flood of submissions to answer  all our questions.

Super special thanks to Christina for sorting through the mountains of entries to get them to AV, PA and the rest  of the committee.

That being said, I feel a little better about seeing the number of entries so low.  While I'm sure it's more than AV and co. were expecting, it's about a third of what I was estimating.  Maybe I do have a chance after  all.     Then again, maybe not.    

Three days and counting....

Alan

7/3/02 - MIIB and WotC results?  *Swoon*


----------



## Ds Da Man

What, you mean you guys haven't recieved your "We want your ten page proposals" yet?


----------



## Dynod

Alot of talk about odds. What 1-1000 if they received 10,000. Ya if they are pulling the submissions out of a hat! They are actually going to read them so the odds are totally variable. Some people will have no chance of winning I'm sure, maybe myself included. Though it was fun to submit.

They likely will receive a couple hundred that are contenders. Then they will wittle it down to 10. As for winning and this being a contest, it isn't. Sheesh the $20,000 is a payment for time spent developing! Unless your unemployed you could appreciate the time away from work a 100 page submission might take! The $100,000 is payment for work produced, that's what happens when you're a professional they pay you for work done. Although likely not this handsomely unless you are someone famous.  

But one thing is for sure, everyone will have to sit tight and wait to hear the bad news, except for those few who had it right and happen to get noticed at the same time.


----------



## mirzabah

Is anyone else getting the rollercoaster thing?

1) 'Course I'll be in the 10 - I the man.

2) No way will my setting get up. Wotta lame submission.

3) Go to step (1)


----------



## Irysangel

*Ya!*

Exact same thing, Mir!

"They'll really like it!"

"Gack, this isn't original! Why did I send this crap?"

Over and over and over and over again.....


----------



## Jon F. Zeigler

mirzabah said:
			
		

> *Is anyone else getting the rollercoaster thing?*




Not me. I'm firmly in the "I know this one is worth developing, but I also know the odds are against me" camp. So I'm just putting it out of my mind for a few more days.


----------



## Mouseferatu

Jon F. Zeigler said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Not me. I'm firmly in the "I know this one is worth developing, but I also know the odds are against me" camp. So I'm just putting it out of my mind for a few more days.  *




Whereas I'm doing the up and down both at the same time.  Intellectually, I'm in the same camp you are.  Emotionally, however, I can't manage to quench that same spark of almost desperate hope that permits an otherwise rational human being to do things like, say, buy a lottery ticket.

Or try to make a career out of writing.


----------



## NoOneofConsequence

*Rollercoaster?*



			
				mirzabah said:
			
		

> *Is anyone else getting the rollercoaster thing?
> 
> 1) 'Course I'll be in the 10 - I the man.
> 
> 2) No way will my setting get up. Wotta lame submission.
> 
> 3) Go to step (1) *





Well, 

My new born son's been sick as a dog and last Friday I got sacked from my job so....I've only been wondering about my submission every spare minute of every day since I sent it off.

Rollercoaster?
Hoo boy.....here we go agaaaiiin!


----------



## shadoth

*My submission, my inadequacy, et al*

I'm sort of between emotions, right now. I'm certain that if my submissions are read, they'll swing into the top, I don't know, one hundred. Of this I am confident. But as for getting into the top ten. Eh, I'm not so sure. Not that I doubt my work, but I have to recognize that there's a lot of talent out there. Sure, I've got skills. But I'm not the only one. Whatever.

Shadoth!

edit-I left out a word! What ignomy!


----------



## nopantsyet

*uh--i forgot..*

Yeah, I spent hours working on it.  And I scurried off to the post office at 3pm on the deadline to get it mailed off.

And promptely forgot about it.

As blasphemous as that may seem.  I know I put together the best I could and now it's out of my hands.  Besides, I've still got to finish the campaign that inspired this world so my group can actually play it!

But what I want to know is...

Who's going to buy the sourcebook when it comes out?

Here's the real genius of this idea I think.  It's not so much in how they have contrived to get the idea for this new setting, but in how they have generated interest in it.  This has been the hottest topic for weeks.  Personally, I am very interested to see--when it finally comes out--the final result of this whole thing.


----------



## fba827

*Re: uh--i forgot..*



			
				nopantsyet said:
			
		

> *And promptely forgot about it.
> As blasphemous as that may seem.  I know I put together the best I could and now it's out of my hands.
> *




I'm in the same boat 



			
				nopantsyet said:
			
		

> *But what I want to know is...
> 
> Who's going to buy the sourcebook when it comes out?
> *




Well

1) Depends on if they even make a source book out of it.  After all, it seems that they are looking at this from several different marketting angles.. (books, etc) so, there is probably a possibility (however small it is) that they simply decide not to go the rpg campaign source book route

2) Depends on what the setting is about.  I have to admit, I wasn't a big fan of planescape - not that it wasn't creative or inventive, just not my cup of tea.  So my buying the source book really depends on what it is - flavor, style, etc...


----------



## Morgenstern

*30 second attention span...*

You're wondering about the final product? This setting won't be out for 10 months, minimum.

I don't expect the 'hype' to last until then . I'll still be mildly interested at that point, but hardly champing at the bit- especially since I'll have my own entry to tide me over 'til then .


----------



## dema

*Too Novel Like*

Great to have read everyones comments and such.

I worked on my world for a few days, but the original ideas were created with the coming of 3e.

I might have gone a little astray and not followed the template. Anthoy said it's ok (kinda.) My proposal originally read like a point A and point B thing.  Heros are . . .  Villians are . . . etc.

That was dull. So I rewrote everything. The proposal read well, and got indepth (maybe to indepth.)

I'm in the boat where people think 700 words isn't enough.

I remember submitting a proposal to Dragon (and though the article interested them, but wasn't needed now) i was told I think by the editor at the time (Monte?) that i did send in too much for a proposal.  This time dragon mag recieved a 3 sentence proposal (still working on the article here.)

Well, I don't know.  Just sharing some disorganized thoughts.

July 4th will come, and life will continue either way.


----------



## Agback

*Re: 3 days now . . .*



			
				trix said:
			
		

> Anyone finished their 10 pager?
> Anyone finished their 100 pager?




I wrote my 10-pager in 1987. All that is left to do is cut it down from 24 pages. A change to 8-point Times ought to do it.

And I wrote my 100-pager in 1991. It's only 63 pages long, but that's in 8.4-point Times, so a change to about 10 or 11 point ought to fix that.

Regards,


Brett


----------



## your father is

*Re: uh--i forgot..*



			
				nopantsyet said:
			
		

> *Yeah, I spent hours working on it.  And I scurried off to the post office at 3pm on the deadline to get it mailed off.
> 
> And promptely forgot about it.*




  Me too. I completely forgot about mine! I don't even post in this thread anymore...


----------



## Agback

*Re: A new thought*



			
				Duncan Haldane said:
			
		

> *It just crossed my mind that with Wizards getting all these submissions it would be a great way to build up a database of roleplayer's addresses for direct marketing.
> 
> Duncan *




A way, but not perhaps a great way. The 20,000 gamers who submitted settings probably have less need to buy setting material than the 1,980,000 gamers who had neither the time nor the inspiration to submit suggestions.

Regards,


Brett


----------



## Altmann

*Re: let's talk characters*



			
				your father is said:
			
		

> *In novels and campaign settings, do you prefer clear distinctions between the heroes and the villains or do you prefer more morally ambiguous characters with believable motivation?*




I'm an Amber player/gm :
Heroes ? Villains ? What's the difference ? It's more about Friends/Enemies and conflincting goals.

Even in my "low-level" (= D&D) campaigns, the distinction is seldom black&white. One of the reasons is that in my campaign world, each deity has its own definition of Good and Evil. And they do not agree on anything - not even on "Thou shalt rever the Deities" 

*



			Both can work.  When playing a game it is often preferable to know who the bad-guys are.  When reading about a character, though, a little depth is a good thing.
		
Click to expand...


*
Well, my most worked-on character, as player, had a 14 pages-long background, including a portrait and full biography and police report (this was a high-level PC for Star Wars RPG).

*



			I think the new setting will have to be something that allows for sympathetic characters to come into conflict with each other, with no character absolutely good or evil.  That is why they asked specifically about conflict.
		
Click to expand...


*
I agree on this.

*



			Or do you think a world where characters would be more gray than merely black or white would be at a disadvantage?
		
Click to expand...


*
I sure hope not.

Be reading you,
 YA


----------



## Ds Da Man

Well, I'll say honestly that 1 page was tougher then ten pages. I struggled and struggled with finding the right mixture of words to try and describe an entire campaign setting world in a few sentenances. Oh well, there's always 4E.


----------



## Greybar

Interesting comment I thought I would share, coming froma friend who has done gaming freelance writing.  What kills freelancers, he says, are deadline.  Freelancers as a  group cannot product tight, quality work on a deadline.  Delays (due to extra editorial passes, or just plain not getting the copy in) then kill the publishers financially.

So my read is that WoTC will ask 10 folks for 10-pagers, and at least 2 will totally flake.  Yeah, yeah, I hear you saying "Not me!" and "I can write 10 pages on my favorite character in an hour".

Probably when they get to the 3(ish) in the last round, all three will get it in.  But don't underestimate the number of people "with great ideas, no really!" that simply will not be able to write to the deadline.  I'm not saying they are lazy bums, but these people have lives, college, family, young children...

anyway, a rambling food for thought...

John


----------



## Jon F. Zeigler

Greybar said:
			
		

> *Interesting comment I thought I would share, coming froma friend who has done gaming freelance writing.  What kills freelancers, he says, are deadline.  Freelancers as a  group cannot product tight, quality work on a deadline.  Delays (due to extra editorial passes, or just plain not getting the copy in) then kill the publishers financially.*




Absolutely, 100%, true. This is by far the hardest part of the RPG publishing business to manage for any publisher that relies on freelance creators.




> *So my read is that WoTC will ask 10 folks for 10-pagers, and at least 2 will totally flake.  Yeah, yeah, I hear you saying "Not me!" and "I can write 10 pages on my favorite character in an hour".
> 
> Probably when they get to the 3(ish) in the last round, all three will get it in.  But don't underestimate the number of people "with great ideas, no really!" that simply will not be able to write to the deadline.  I'm not saying they are lazy bums, but these people have lives, college, family, young children...*




This wouldn't surprise me in the slightest. I don't think that writing a 1-page or 10-page summary is a hurdle high enough to filter out the folks who will choke at the 100-page level. Especially since it sounds like they're going to be expecting pretty professional development jobs at the 100-page level.


----------



## Zulkir

*test*

Hopefully this attaches a photo of our Admin. Asst. Christina surrounded by one days worth of mail.

AV


----------



## A'koss

*blink*

Little more than you figured Anthony... ;-)


A'koss!
(hey, I think I see mine...!)


----------



## Zog

*Well, at least she looks happy!*

Now what we need is the 'after' picture - poor Christina buried in  torn envelopes and rejected letters, covered in bandages from paper cuts.  

Poor girl.

10,000 in one week huh?  So probably about 15-20,000 total.  Now I wonder how many were actually numbered and read?

So, did anyone at WOTC actually have a weekend?


----------



## Oni

Hurm.....You know, its not very much longer now until the those people that made it will be notified.


----------



## trix

*Zulkir / Parcher...*

Will the top10 mails be ready by tomorrow?  We'll all be on prozac if you push the deadline back.


----------



## SteveMND

_"We'll all be on prozac if you push the deadline back."_

Have you seen the photo from the previous page?  It's virtually assured that they will have to push the deadline back to handle the workload (although I think it's rather silly that WotC didn't think they'd get this many responses to begin with... ).

Steve M


----------



## Scribe Ineti

Perhaps WotC will issue a statement of some sort tomorrow as to whether they'll be done as scheduled or not.


----------



## kingpaul

*Re: test*



			
				Zulkir said:
			
		

> *Hopefully this attaches a photo of our Admin. Asst. Christina surrounded by one days worth of mail.
> 
> AV *



Oy vey!

Has poor Christina been getting OT pay (or some other kind of compensation) for putting up with the plethora of responses.  She definately deserves *something* after what she's had to put up with.


----------



## Chromnos

Does anyone know how many submissions were received by WOTC?

-C


----------



## BiggusGeekus

Chromnos said:
			
		

> *Does anyone know how many submissions were received by WOTC?*




Over 10,000.

http://boards.wizards.com/rpg-bin/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic&f=135&t=011138&p=


----------



## Chromnos

Man you rock.  Thanks.

-C


----------



## seasong

*Meeting the deadline*

I'm sure they'll make the deadline. Assuming

1) they didn't get started until Friday (when they hit 10k),
2) there are 10 judges,
3) that they will work over the weekend (or work 12 hour days),
4) and they are using a reasonable process*,

they should be having round table discussions right now to pick the top ten out of a select group of about a hundred. That will take a while, but is very possible.

So don't worry too much about the deadline. Let me froth for you .

* For example (assuming 10 judges):

Step 1: Skim through. Eliminate crap. Should average about 30 seconds per page (crap is easy to spot). Anything that _really_ jumps out at them should be put in a special "Strong Contender" pile. Total time about 8 hours, and it cuts down on the total work required. Friday ends.

Step 2: Go through everything but the Strong Contender pile. What you're looking for are Strong Contenders that you missed while skimming for crap. This will probably take another 8 hours (there will be a lot fewer pages, but more reading time required). At the end of it, there should be 25-100 Strong Contenders. Saturday ends.

Step 3: Start going through the Strong Contender pile. Read each one, start comparing. Pick the top 10. This _might_ take another day, depending on whether or not there are any obvious picks. Sunday ends.

Step 4: Get together with the other judges on Monday. All together, there should be about 100 submissions. Swap pages around, discuss, argue, defend favorites. Leaders will emerge. Proposals will get canned. Two days should be plenty to cut it down to 10.


----------



## theburningman

I think they'll still make it by tomorrow.  I figured they just went through the piles and piles looking at all of the Core Ethos Statements first, and if that didn't catch their eyes, they file 13ed it.  I think that is the primary reason they put so much emphasis on the CES.


----------



## Fast Learner

*Re: Meeting the deadline*



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *I'm sure they'll make the deadline. Assuming <SNIP>*




Your calculations are missing an entire week. Remember that the deadline for postmarks was Friday the 21st. Many had already arrived, with more coming in every day. They had all of last week to read them in addition the timeline you describe.

That doesn't mean I think it's at all easy, or that they won't need more time. Only that they have had quite a lot more time than you note.


----------



## Tallow

*Submission notification delayed!!*

This is from the WotC website


The New Fantasy Setting
Search Second Round Delayed
Due to Overwhelming Response  



Due to the extraordinary response to our search for a new fantasy setting, Wizards of the Coast will push back the date for initiating the second round of proposals. A committee of experts from WotC will read and review all the submissions made and will make its decision by the end of the first week in August. Those whose submissions have been selected for further development into ten-page proposals will be notified by that time.

To date we've received more than 10,000 submissions in our search. This is both overwhelming and amazing. We're tremendously excited by the enthusiasm of those submitting and by the high quality of many of the submissions. It's testimony to the vitality and creativity of the gaming community. Now we want to take the necessary time to make sure we give all proposals the best consideration possible.

Thank you for your cooperation.


----------



## Ashtal

Someone's posted the information in a new thread, which I've stickied up at the top of the forum.

Since this thread has reached over 1000 posts, and has yet to make any forum go BOOM, I say we put her to rest - one that is much deserved.  Please move on to the new thread:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=16581

It was a good, bonnie thread that served us well.  *sniffle*  Everyone, a moment of silence for the biggest thread ever!


----------

