# DC Comics Reboot



## Villano (Jun 1, 2011)

For a while now, there's been some speculation that DC was planning on rebooting their universe and starting all their comics again with #1's (this started back when DC listed its release schedule for its August books and someone noticed that all their comics seemed to be wrapping up their current storylines and that the last issue of the Flashpoint mini-series was the only thing shipping the last week of the month).  

Well, now it appears to be true:  DC Announces Post-"Flashpoint" Details, Relaunches All Titles - Comic Book Resources

Jim Lee is redesigning 50+ characters?  The characters are going to be younger?  The stories will now "relate to real world situations, interactions, tragedy and triumph"?  What does that mean?

And if they are de-aging characters, what does it mean for Nightwing, Robin, Batgirl, etc?  Does this mean young Bruce and Dick Grayson as Robin?  

The only monthly title I get from DC is Secret Six (although I've started collecting Batgirl in trades), so I wonder if those books are even going to exist anymore.


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## Diamond Cross (Jun 1, 2011)

I hope they choke.


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## Klaus (Jun 1, 2011)

More details are cropping up, including Grant Morrison writing Superman.

Some of those Jim Lee redesigns are very poor, though. WHat's with all the high collars?


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## Villano (Jun 1, 2011)

Some more info:

It seems that the picture is of the new "original" line-up of the Justice League.  Martian Manhunter out/ Cyborg in.  

Also, Gail Simone is off Birds of Prey (and the new book probably won't have anything to do with the current one).

Teen Titans  - written by Fabian Nicieza.

Justice Society of America  - Marc Guggenheim is gone.

Wonder Woman  - ???

Green Lantern  - Geoff Johns

Hawkman  - James Robinson and possibly drawn by Philip Tan.

Aquaman  - Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis.

Omac  - ???

Adventure Comics, starring Deadman - ???

And Superman & Wonder Woman are dating (good-bye super-marriage?).

My feelings on this reboot:        

EDIT:  It's been reported that Zatanna, Batgirl, Secret Six, and Jonah Hex are no longer available as subscriptions from DC.  No confirmation on this, but it wouldn't surprise me.


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## Pinotage (Jun 1, 2011)

Really? Was this move necessary? *shakes head*

I'm a long time DC fan, in particular the Bat-verse, and I've seen them play around with that so many times that enough is enough. Mind you, if the change gets rid of Batman Incorporated, that's one plus.

I don't really know what to say...

Wait and see.

Pinotage


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## Mallus (Jun 1, 2011)

Klaus said:


> More details are cropping up, including Grant Morrison writing Superman.



Yes!


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## GrayLinnorm (Jun 1, 2011)

So, does this mean we'll never see _Action Comics _#1,000?


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## Fast Learner (Jun 1, 2011)

For those of you who are disappointed/unhappy with the reboot, I'm curious about how many DC comics you currently buy each month.

I mean, I figure the folks at DC have what they consider to be a good reason to reboot everything. My guess is that sales are unacceptable and one of the reasons people say they don't buy comics is because they're spooked by the gigantic ongoing storylines.

It probably also relates, perhaps more directly, to their announcement that with the reboot every issue of every comic will be available in digital form the same day the print edition hits the shelves. They're likely wanting to lure in a whole new crowd of potential comics fans on iPads/tablets, and a reboot could easily be the thing that attracts those new folks.


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## Pinotage (Jun 1, 2011)

Fast Learner said:


> For those of you who are disappointed/unhappy with the reboot, I'm curious about how many DC comics you currently buy each month.
> 
> I mean, I figure the folks at DC have what they consider to be a good reason to reboot everything. My guess is that sales are unacceptable and one of the reasons people say they don't buy comics is because they're spooked by the gigantic ongoing storylines.




Sounds a bit like what DC is doing to their comics is similar to what some believe WOTC is doing to D&D!  Need a new edition every once in a while akin to a new comic reboot.

Either way, I buy several of the bat-titles every month, and I guess my complaint here is that they've fiddled around enough with Batman over the last year or so. RIP. Bruce Wayne. Batman Incorporated. Sometimes a period of stability is needed.

As long as they keep the good story lines going, I'll be happy.

Pinotage


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## Villano (Jun 1, 2011)

Fast Learner said:


> For those of you who are disappointed/unhappy with the reboot, I'm curious about how many DC comics you currently buy each month.
> 
> I mean, I figure the folks at DC have what they consider to be a good reason to reboot everything. My guess is that sales are unacceptable and one of the reasons people say they don't buy comics is because they're spooked by the gigantic ongoing storylines.
> 
> It probably also relates, perhaps more directly, to their announcement that with the reboot every issue of every comic will be available in digital form the same day the print edition hits the shelves. They're likely wanting to lure in a whole new crowd of potential comics fans on iPads/tablets, and a reboot could easily be the thing that attracts those new folks.




The dislike is really due to several factors.

The first is that people don't have a lot of faith in the people in charge at DC.  I mean, if they announced that the reboot was being headed by Grant Morrison, Alan Moore, and Neil Gaiman, there would probably be more enthusiasm.  

Since DiDio's been in charge, it's been big "nothing is ever going to be the same again!" events, gimmicks, and mini-reboots.  They've caused the very continuity problems which they now claim to need to be fixed.

There's also this weird mentality there.  On the one hand, they seem to want to reintroduce the Siver Age concepts, but on the other, they want the grim & gritty 90s stuff.  Someone summed it up best by saying that DC is run by people who wish there was more rape and cannibalism in the Silver Age.

Plus there are the costume redesigns.  When they rebooted everything with Crisis, they didn't change the way the characters looked.

And now there's some confusion as to what kind of reboot they are going for.  Comic Book Resources is reporting that the "effects of major crossovers like Blackest Night [are] to stay in place moving forward".  So...what does that mean?  Are they mixing retcons and current continuity?  That's just going to cause a bigger mess.  

Honestly, I'm beginning to  wonder if this is going to end up being a House of M or Heroes Reborn and the old continuity will be back in a year (which makes the whole thing stink of a desperate sales gimmick...especially when you consider that they are releasing 52 first issues in one month).


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## coyote6 (Jun 1, 2011)

Fast Learner said:


> For those of you who are disappointed/unhappy with the reboot, I'm curious about how many DC comics you currently buy each month.




23, give or take. Most of which appear likely to be heavily affected by DC Heroes Reborn, and I am not sanguine about the changes being improvements. In fact, it seems likely that my favorite books won't exist (Simone's BoP & Secret Six, Power Girl, etc.).

When was the last time Jim Lee drew a monthly book, on time, for more than a handful of months? The Clinton administration?

I agree with Villano- Didio promises a lot, but the delivery & execution haven't always been there. They haven't been able to get away from stupid big event crossovers, with the requisite deaths of one or more B-characters (often minorities), or any of the other clinches that have been running through comics for the last decade or two. It's the same guys at the top, so why should this be any different? 

Sent from my MB860 using Tapatalk


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 1, 2011)

Part of the reason is because DC lost the rights to superman's origin story to the point were Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Daily Planet, Krypton, Supernman's Iconic S uniform, etc can no longer exist (but DC created elements of the characters related to Superman can).

 The court's ruling goes into effect in a few months, so if the Flash Point triggered universe write is a perminant lasting change its only so that DC can properly own all of their origin stories/characters and  prevent an other family's estate from regaining control of a character huge parts of a character's mythology. If not, then this is only part of the DCU retcon process and things will be back in about 5 or 10 years as per DCU's various "Crisises."


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## jonesy (Jun 1, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> Part of the reason is because DC lost the rights to superman's origin story to the point were Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Daily Planet, Krypton, Supernman's Iconic S uniform, etc no longer exists.



Really? That's hilarious. No, wait, I mean confusing. Who got the rights?


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 1, 2011)

jonesy said:


> Really? That's hilarious. No, wait, I mean confusing. Who got the rights?




Jerry Siegel's and Joe Shuster's family estates.  What makes things confusing is that understanding what their ownership entitles since "Superman" is owned by  DC, but that superman is essentially the same as the Superman DC lost the rights to since the DC IP was added ontop of the Siegel/Shuster IP.


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## Klaus (Jun 1, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> Part of the reason is because DC lost the rights to superman's origin story to the point were Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Daily Planet, Krypton, Supernman's Iconic S uniform, etc can no longer exist (but DC created elements of the characters related to Superman can).
> 
> The court's ruling goes into effect in a few months, so if the Flash Point triggered universe write is a perminant lasting change its only so that DC can properly own all of their origin stories/characters and  prevent an other family's estate from regaining control of a character huge parts of a character's mythology. If not, then this is only part of the DCU retcon process and things will be back in about 5 or 10 years as per DCU's various "Crisises."



That's wrong in a variety of levels. First, the rights issue is strictly about Action Comics #1. That means Superman, Clark Kent, Lois Lane, the Daily Star, period. Most of what we associate with Superman, like Luthor, Kryptonite, Perry & Jimmy, flying, heat vision, etc, was create much later. And second, the (vicious) legal battle is ongoing.


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## Welverin (Jun 1, 2011)

GrayLinnorm said:


> So, does this mean we'll never see _Action Comics _#1,000?




Of course not, they'll just pull a Marvel, which is what this stinks of, and when it's time for the anniversary issue they'll just go back to the original numbering.


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## Pinotage (Jun 1, 2011)

Welverin said:


> Of course not, they'll just pull a Marvel, which is what this stinks of, and when it's time for the anniversary issue they'll just go back to the original numbering.




Like they did with Adventure Comics? Rebooted to Issue 0 with something like issue 512, and then not even 10 issues later reverted back to the original numbering. 

Pinotage


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## Klaus (Jun 1, 2011)

Pinotage said:


> Like they did with Adventure Comics? Rebooted to Issue 0 with something like issue 512, and then not even 10 issues later reverted back to the original numbering.
> 
> Pinotage



... and Wonder Woman, who merged all of her volumes in time for issue 600.

Personally, I don't understand the problem with high issue numbers. Never stopped me, as a kid, from buying a comic, be it The Incredible Hulk, Visionnaires or LoSH.


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 2, 2011)

Klaus said:


> Personally, I don't understand the problem with high issue numbers. Never stopped me, as a kid, from buying a comic, be it The Incredible Hulk, Visionnaires or LoSH.




I think it comes down to a small number of people deciding not to start a comic as a result of wrongly thinking that they would neee to buy 769 issues just to know what's going on.  In reality it often comes down to going onto a message board and asking "what trades should I read to know what is currently happening?"


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## cignus_pfaccari (Jun 2, 2011)

Dammit.  I was rather enjoying picking up the trades for Secret Six.

Brad


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 2, 2011)

ok, 2005 I had on my pull list at my local comic shop for over 85 comics... over the last few years I have droped alot... right now, I have 13... 9 are DC, 2 are ultimate marvel... and 1 is the D&D comic...

I think this may put th final nail in my comic collection,,,



I will admit that maybe this was needed though... maybe post batman inc, and darkest night, and reign of the doomsday...and well everything in jla/sa... maybe now is the time to start over...even if it means it is not for me...


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## ShadowDenizen (Jun 2, 2011)

> For those of you who are disappointed/unhappy with the reboot, I'm curious about how many DC comics you currently buy each month.





For the record, I buy ZERO monthlies.
I do however, keep up with the trades as they come out.

My primary interest is Green Lantern, Flash, Superboy, Wonder Woman and Batman. (And Shazam/Captain Marvel, though there’s not that much for him the current DCU, really.)   Oh, and “Starman” was probably my favorite mainstream comic books series of the last 25 years. 

Overall, I’m OK with the current direction the comics are taking, mostly. (Though I’m actually NOT a fan of the RIP/Batman Reborn/Battle for the Cowl/Life After Death arc, though.  I’ve been reading long enough to remember Kightfall/Knightquest/Knightsend arc, as well as “Progidal”, and this really is just a retread of that, to my mind.  Also? Enough Hush already.  He’s not as interesting as more established Batman villains.)

I’m not a fan of this “Reboot” idea, however, though I (along with most people) saw it coming from some distance away. (Though I honestly this was more done out of necessity than for any other reason.)

I


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## Villano (Jun 2, 2011)

Some more info:

Gail Simone is off Secret Six and doing the Deadman series.  I've also heard that Secret Six will be relaunced as Secret Seven with a totally different concept.

Dan DiDio will be writing OMAC.

Barbara Gordon is Batgirl again.

Jim Lee's Wildstorm books are going to be incorportated into the mainstream DCU and several will be part of the massive first issue relaunch.

Batwoman will finally be coming out with the reboot.

One of the weirdest rumors is that female characters will have to wear "practical clothing" and can no longer have bare legs.  I guess we'll have to wait and see if Supergirl is wearing pants...


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## Truth Seeker (Jun 2, 2011)

Nope, not rumor...it will be standard 'uniform' for all lady heroes.

'Panty shots' will be a thing of the past.


Villano said:


> Some more info:
> 
> Gail Simone is off Secret Six and doing the Deadman series. I've also heard that Secret Six will be relaunced as Secret Seven with a totally different concept.
> 
> ...


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## Pinotage (Jun 2, 2011)

Villano said:


> Barbara Gordon is Batgirl again.
> 
> Batwoman will finally be coming out with the reboot.




Just when Stephanie was starting to grow on me. Her comics were always a light-hearted romp.

As for Batwoman - meh. Not that interesting. Hadn't she come out in the earlier series? Wasn't there a Batwoman #0 but nothing after that?

Pinotage


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## Klaus (Jun 2, 2011)

Gail Simone is doing Fury of the Firestorm with Ethan Van Sciver and Yildinar Cynar (sp?).

More info here: DC Unveils Creators, Covers For 10 Relaunch Titles - Comic Book Resources


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## Villano (Jun 3, 2011)

Pinotage said:


> Just when Stephanie was starting to grow on me. Her comics were always a light-hearted romp.
> 
> As for Batwoman - meh. Not that interesting. Hadn't she come out in the earlier series? Wasn't there a Batwoman #0 but nothing after that?
> 
> Pinotage




I used to read Robin when I was a kid and I loved Spoiler.  After hearing good things about her Batgirl series, I ordered the first 2 volumes of collections.  I got vol 2, but vol 1 won't ship for another week so I haven't gotten a chance to read any of it.  Now I sort of regret spending money on a series that isn't going to continue. 

As for Batwoman, I think her series was announced, delayed, announced, delayed, etc., so good luck with that keeping a schedule.

BTW, wouldn't it be funny if the final issue of Flashpoint, which is supposed to launch this new universe, ends up being delayed and doesn't ship until after the reboot?  I mean, it's DC so it wouldn't exactly shock me. 

And the more I learn about the reboot, the more I'm confused.  One of the announced covers shows Guy Gardner.  So the universe is going to _start _with more than one Green Lantern on Earth?  If they're going through all this trouble to reboot their universe, just reboot the whole thing.  I don't like this "Some things happened and other stuff didn't and you can sort out how things we say happened happened if it happened with characters who don't exist anymore".


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 3, 2011)

Villano said:


> BTW, wouldn't it be funny if the final issue of Flashpoint, which is supposed to launch this new universe, ends up being delayed and doesn't ship until after the reboot?




Joss Whedon presents Flashpoint?


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## Kobold Avenger (Jun 3, 2011)

The Green Lantern titles seem to be relatively unchanged by Flashpoint, there's still the "New Guardians" even if they don't say who they are, and Attrocitus and the Red Lanterns will still be around.  And those series have almost the same writers as they had before.

Some characters are getting more of the spotlight such as Cyborg in the Justice League and Mr. Terrific with his own series.  Justice League International has the addition of a few more characters such as Vixen and August General in Iron.

What I'm curious about, is will the Wildstorm universe be integrated with the DCU post-Flashpoint?  Will Midnighter, Grifter, Deathblow and others by on some team?  Will Henry Bendix be causing trouble in the DCU?  Will Checkmate be replaced by Stormwatch and so on?


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## Villano (Jun 3, 2011)

Kobold Avenger said:


> What I'm curious about, is will the Wildstorm universe be integrated with the DCU post-Flashpoint?  Will Midnighter, Grifter, Deathblow and others by on some team?  Will Henry Bendix be causing trouble in the DCU?  Will Checkmate be replaced by Stormwatch and so on?




I'm 99% sure that I read that a Grifter solo series will be one of the first 52 titles released.  Not sure about the others (or the Milestone characters for that matter).

And, just to make things more confusing, DC Senior VP of Sales, Bob Wayne said:



> We know that you want more details on the creative teams and their title-by-title assignments for the launch. . (And by the way, let me just reiterate this point: this is the launch of the New DCU. It is not a "reboot." I think you will soon discover why that is.)




So, is it...

1.) A reboot, but we're calling it a "relaunch"?

2.) A reboot and we really want this to be the main universe, but we'll keep the original around as part of the multiverse so we can fall back to it in case this one fails?

3.) Ultimate DC and we'll sell titles from both universes?

4.) House of M.  This is just a short term sales gimmick and we plan to make it go away in a year?

I swear, if it's #4, I'm never buying anything from them again.


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## Truth Seeker (Jun 3, 2011)

*Yupe...Not a REBOOT--But a New DC universe*

DC Outlines Incentives, Variants, Returnability



> In a letter to retailers (provided to ICv2 by a recipient) DC’s Senior Vice President of Sales and Marketing Bob Wayne offered additional information about the publisher’s daring plan to blow up and then reconstitute its superhero universe. “*This is the launch of a new DCU*,” said Wayne, “*It is not a reboot*.” Wayne also revealed that DC is preparing a “short introductory video starring our creators and our content,” and will hold meetings for retailers in New York, Dallas, Baltimore, Chicago, and Los Angeles (interested parties should contact DC for invitations).




And---DC Announces 10 New #1 Creative Teams


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 4, 2011)

ok, as of today these are the Official Title's: 

1) Justice League #1: 
2) Superman #1 
3) Wonder Woman #1 
4) Batman #1 
5) The Flash #1 
6) Green Lantern #1 
7) Aquaman #1 
8) The Savage Hawkman #1 
9) Fury of Firestorm #1 
10) Green Arrow #1 
11) Teen Titans #1 
12) Birds of Prey #1 
13) Justice league International #1 
14) Legion Lost #1 
15) Mr. Terrific #1 
16) Captain Atom #1 
17) DC Universe Presents #1 
18) Batwoman #1 
19) Justice Society of America #1 
20) Green Lantern Corps #1 
21) Green lantern: New Guardians #1 
22) Red Lanterns #1 

the only one in this list that's 80% accurate is JSA beacause that's from another non-journalist site that is just throwing out titles names... 

now the following are RUMORED books: 
23) My Greatest Adventures #1 
24) Grifter #1 (yes they are rumored to be bringing in Wildstorm books) 
25) Batgirl #1 
26) Nightwing #1 
27) Omac #1


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 4, 2011)

Villano said:


> 4.) House of M.  This is just a short term sales gimmick and we plan to make it go away in a year?
> 
> I swear, if it's #4, I'm never buying anything from them again.




well my local shop told me today they are currently working with the theory that this is DC's hero's reborn... 

he told me that he asked and was told 'don;t throw out your old pull list' by a rep at DC... so take that for what you will


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## Villano (Jun 4, 2011)

GMforPowergamers said:


> well my local shop told me today they are currently working with the theory that this is DC's hero's reborn...
> 
> he told me that he asked and was told 'don;t throw out your old pull list' by a rep at DC... so take that for what you will




So the usual gang of idiots are simply doing the same thing they've been doing for the past few years (i.e., a big event which further screws up continuity)?  

If this is true, I really hope this whole thing fails miserably and we finally get rid of DiDio.


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 4, 2011)

I thought Professor X was a Marvel character!!!







But seriously, who is this guy? Is he a bald mentalist? I recognize the Chrysler Building, so he's in New York.

/don't know DC very well


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 4, 2011)

TarionzCousin said:


> I thought Professor X was a Marvel character!!!
> 
> 
> 
> ...




That would be air force piolt Captian Nathanal Adam, aka Captian Atom. He was a test subject for the airforce when they cut the hull of a living alien ship and covered him in it then put him at ground 0 of a nuke test...

the armor bonded to him, he absorbed the energy (depending on who is writing he may have always been a low level meta and not known or the test gave it all to him) time jump a few years and come out a new meta...

He is strong, invunrable, can control and channel energy (and change matter when the writers remember) mostly radiation, but all energy for the most part... and if he absorbes too much he jumps through time...

Take 1 part firestorm and 1 part superman then give him captian america like origin and you have the basics...

oh and he is the insperation for Dr Manhatten in Watchman...


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## Pinotage (Jun 4, 2011)

GMforPowergamers said:


> ok, as of today these are the Official Title's:




Is this list supposed to replace <i>all</i> other titles? In other words, anything that doesn't make it onto the list is cancelled? So Batman and Robin, Batman - Streets of Gotham, Adventure Comics, Action Comics and those are done now? Or is this list just the main titles and all the others are set to continue. 

I'm not liking what I'm seeing...

Pinotage


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## Sombalance (Jun 4, 2011)

Why not ask Superman how he feels about it.

Gutters - Issue #145 by Scott Cohn


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## Villano (Jun 4, 2011)

Pinotage said:


> Is this list supposed to replace <i>all</i> other titles? In other words, anything that doesn't make it onto the list is cancelled? So Batman and Robin, Batman - Streets of Gotham, Adventure Comics, Action Comics and those are done now? Or is this list just the main titles and all the others are set to continue.
> 
> I'm not liking what I'm seeing...
> 
> Pinotage




Every single current title is apparently ending and being replaced by the first issues of 52 new comics.  I think Adventure is confirmed as returning (I think this is the one that will star Deadman) and Action Comics is probably a safe bet.  Batman & Robin might make it, but Streets of Gotham is most likely gone.

The big question is, of course, if this is a reboot or if the current comics as they are will continue at some point.


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## megamania (Jun 4, 2011)

A few years ago DC was rumored to do a "Ultimates" version of their universe.  The closest that became was All-Star which was very limited in scope.  Now they are doing it this way.

I don't buy comics like I used too (4 dollars apiece now!) but I hope they do well with it.

When Marvel did a similiar thing but kept it seperate (Ultimate series) it was very good.   Maybe the same will happen here.


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## Dire Bare (Jun 5, 2011)

megamania said:


> A few years ago DC was rumored to do a "Ultimates" version of their universe.  The closest that became was All-Star which was very limited in scope.  Now they are doing it this way.
> 
> I don't buy comics like I used too (4 dollars apiece now!) but I hope they do well with it.
> 
> When Marvel did a similiar thing but kept it seperate (Ultimate series) it was very good.   Maybe the same will happen here.




Actually, DC's comics are $2.99 both in print and virtual.  Older back issues are sometimes $1.99.


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## Klaus (Jun 5, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> Actually, DC's comics are $2.99 both in print and virtual.  Older back issues are sometimes $1.99.



New digital titles will drop from 2.99 to 1.99 after a month. Still too expensive, IMHO, but it's a step in the right direction.

As for "Ultimate DC", it happened in 1956.


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## megamania (Jun 5, 2011)

Course it could be said they rebooted in 1985 with Crisis of Infinite Earths also.


As for price.... I rarely buy DC these days anyway.


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## Klaus (Jun 5, 2011)

megamania said:


> Course it could be said they rebooted in 1985 with Crisis of Infinite Earths also.
> 
> 
> As for price.... I rarely buy DC these days anyway.



Re: Reboot in Crisis: the original plan was for the DCU to be totally relaunched from ground zero after Crisis. But that didn't happen. We had the Superman relaunch, we had Batman finding Jason Todd anew, but at the same time, we had the New Teen Titans going to Tamaran for Starfire's political marriage, Wally West being the Flash. And every time a DC icon would get a new "origin" miniseries (like Hawkworld), instead of setting it in the past, DC chose to launch a new series with the character being brand new to the DCU (in the case of Hawkman, this invalidated pretty much every post-Crisis appearance he had).


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## Gentlegamer (Jun 5, 2011)

No cheesecake in the nuDCU?

Black Canary, Huntress . . . POWER GIRL!

NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO!


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## Ron (Jun 6, 2011)

I hope DC know what they are doing. By releasing digital issues simultaneously with their paper counterparts, they will lose the push from the direct sales vendors. The move was unavoidable anyway but I am curious to see how this will work out.

On regard of the editorial direction, I am not thrilled. DC have great creative minds. However, they seem to be too concerned in bringing back the Silver Age concepts. I guess they read too many comics from the late 60s and early 70s when they were kids and are trying to recover that magic. Problem is I read those same comics when I was a kid and I hate them. I guess they are seeing with nostalgic eyes. As such, considering I could only return to DCU after the major clean up after Crisis, I don't think they will be able to capture my interest anymore.

It is also possible that I grow up and moved to be mainly a Vertigo reader that enjoy to rant over my old preferences.


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## Villano (Jun 7, 2011)

Some more updates:  Newsarama.com : DCnU | DC Revamp | UPDATE 7: More DCnU BATMAN Reveals, BATMAN, INC. Info

Lots of new info on upcoming bat-titles.  It seems Batman, Inc _is_ part of continuity, Bruce is back under the hood, Dick is Nightwing again, Damian is Robin and Jason Todd is the Red Hood.

Also, Gail Simone writing Batgirl = Good.  Judd Winick writing Catwoman = Bad.  

And I'm still confused by this reboot.  I'm still not sure what is in continuity, what's actually been rebooted, who was made younger, and who's been erased.  And what happened to Tim Drake?


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## Villano (Jun 7, 2011)

I'm not sure if all of these have been confirmed, but here's a list of 43 of the 52 comics:

1. JLA#1 by Geoff Johns and Jim Lee
2. Action Comics #1 by Grant Morrison and Rags Morales
3. Superman #1 by George Pérez
4. Superboy #1 by Scott Lobdell and…
5. Batman #1 by Scott Snyder and Greg Capullo.
6. Detective Comics #1 by Tony Daniel
7. Batgirl #1 by Gail Simone, Ardian Syaf and Vicente Cifuentes.
8. Batwoman #1 by J.H. Williams III, Haden Blackman and Amy Reeder
9. Catwoman #1 by Judd Winick and Guillem March
10. Red Hood And The Outlaws #1 by Scott Lobdell and Kenneth Rocafort
11. Batwing #1 by Judd Winick and Ben Oliver
12. Nightwing #1 by Kyle Higgins and Eddy Barrows
13. Batman And Robin #1 by Peter Tomasi and Patrick Gleason
14. Adventure Comics DC Universe Presents #1 by Paul Jenkins and Bernard Chang
15. Green Lantern #1 by Geoff Johns, Doug Mahnke and Christian Alamy.
16. Green Lantern Corps #1 by Peter J. Tomasi, Fernando Pasarin and Scott Hanna
17. Green Lanterns: New Guardians #1 by Tony Bedard, Tyler Kirkham and Batt.
18. Red Lanterns #1 by Peter Milligan, Ed Benes and Rob Hunter.
19. Animal Man #1 by Jeff Lemire and…
20. Swamp Thing #1 by Scott Snyder and Yanick Paquette
21. Legion Lost #1 by … and Chris Batista?
22. Birds Of Prey #1 by Duane Swierczynski and Jesus Saiz
23. Teen Titans #1 by Fabian Nicieza Scott Lobdell, Brett Booth and Norm Rapmund
24. Savage Hawkman #1 by James Robinson Tony Daniel and Philip Tan
25. My Greatest Adventure #1 by Kevin Macguire and Aaron Lopresti (possibly for October)
26. Supergirl #1 by Brian Wood
27. Wonder Woman #1 by Brian Azzarello #1 and Cliff Chiang
28. Fury Of Firestorm #1 by Brian Clevinger Gail Simone, Ethan Van Sciver and Yildiray Cinar.
29. Aquaman #1 by Geoff Johns and Ivan Reis
30. Mr Terrific #1 by Eric Wallace and Roger Robinson
31. Flash #1 by Brian Buccellato and Francis Manapul
32. Green Arrow #1 by JT Krul and Dan Jurgens
33. Justice League International #1 by Dan Jurgens and Aaron Lopresti
34. Captain Atom #1 by JT Krul and Freddie Williams II
35. Grifter #1
36. Unnamed Legion book by … and Chris Batista?
37. OMAC #1 by Dan DiDio and Keith Giffen
38. Batman: The Dark Knight #1 by David Finch
39. Vigilante #1 by Darwyn Cooke?
40. Justice Society of America #1
41. Justice League Dark #1 by Peter Milligan and…
42. Demon Knights #1 by Paul Cornell and…
43. Frankenstein: Agent Of SHADE #1 by Jeff Lemire and… 

Reading this list, one thing really stands out to me:  We've got 4 Superman related titles, 10 or 11 Batman ones (if Birds of Prey counts), 4 GL books, and 4 Justice League/Society series.  That's about half of the announced titles just in those four concepts.  And I wouldn't be surprised if 4 or 5 of the remaining 9 series are related to Superman.

EDIT:  Some more titles...

44.  Resurrection Man #1 by Dan Abnett and Andy Lanning with art by Fernando Dagnino.
45.  I, Vampire #1 will be by Josh Fialkov and artist Andrea Sorrentino.
46.  Voodoo #1 by Ron Marz with art by Sami Basri


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## Kaodi (Jun 8, 2011)

See, this is why I feel like I could never seriously get into Marvel and DC Comics. Their universes are just so convoluted such that it is literally not worth the time. 

The comic world needs new heroes who are not subjected to hideously inconsistent and non-sensical crossovers. Seriously, take a damn lesson from the Japanese manga industry.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jun 8, 2011)

So the only confirmed Wildstorm character in the DCU is Voodoo, so far.  Though it certainly looks like that's Rose Tattoo who happens to be in Birds of Prey.

Grifter and other characters are rumours very likely to be true, but they haven't been announced in any of the official previews yet.


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 8, 2011)

Kaodi said:


> See, this is why I feel like I could never seriously get into Marvel and DC Comics. Their universes are just so convoluted such that it is literally not worth the time.
> 
> The comic world needs new heroes who are not subjected to hideously inconsistent and non-sensical crossovers. Seriously, take a damn lesson from the Japanese manga industry.




LoL.  Manga and anime are as guilty of convoluted story lines, histories and continualty errors as DC and Marvel.  Case in point:  Tenchi Muyo.  

But yeah, I will agree with you on the issue of events though.  Luckily, most of the time they don't seem to effect the Marvel universe as a whole beyond __character__ dying this quarter and a bunch of books which everyone will ignore in two montys being released just to up the sales of the Avengers.


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## Villano (Jun 8, 2011)

Some more title info:  Teen Titans, Legion Highlight Latest DC Comics Relaunch News - Comic Book Resources

LEGION OF SUPERHEROES #1 will be written by Paul Levitz and illustrated by Francis Portela.

47. STATIC SHOCK #1, by John Rozum and Scott McDaniel, with McDaniel and Jonathan Glapion on art.

48. HAWK AND DOVE #1, by Sterling Gates and Rob Liefeld.

Yes, Rob Liefeld is drawing one of DC's reboot series.  Rob Freaking Liefeld!

As you can see, his art's as bad as ever.  Although, to be fair, that Teen Titan cover is hideous.  It's like the worst examples of 90s comics art.  

And Superboy has a barcode "S" tattoo and a piece of paper with an "S" on it taped to his back?  Does EN World have en emoticon of a smilie vomiting uncontolably?


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## Klaus (Jun 8, 2011)

Villano said:


> Some more title info:  Teen Titans, Legion Highlight Latest DC Comics Relaunch News - Comic Book Resources
> 
> LEGION OF SUPERHEROES #1 will be written by Paul Levitz and illustrated by Francis Portela.
> 
> ...



The "S" taped on SUperboy's back was a prank by Kid Flash (hence KF pointing at it with his thumb). Brett Booth also said that's not a final cover, just a quick in-house presentation piece.

I have to say, at least Rob Liefeld drew the feet! And nary a pouch in sight!


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## Dire Bare (Jun 8, 2011)

While I've grown up loving the heroes of the DC universe, I've never gotten into comic collecting as I feel it is too convoluted.  It's all been movies and television, with the occasional graphic novel for me.  If DC were to "reboot" with just one Superman title, one Batman title, one Green Lantern title, etc, etc . . . I'd consider jumping in.  To me, while a continuity reboot is a step in the right direction, the "new" DCU seems to remain as convoluted as ever.

And this makes me sad, because, for the most part, I love the art!  I dug the Teen Titans cover!


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## Villano (Jun 8, 2011)

Klaus said:


> The "S" taped on SUperboy's back was a prank by Kid Flash (hence KF pointing at it with his thumb). Brett Booth also said that's not a final cover, just a quick in-house presentation piece.




I'm glad that's not the final piece.  I really don't like it.

BTW, I couldn't make out KF's thumb.  It looked like a stray bit of lightning to me.  The funny thing is that I've got an eye doctor's appointment on Saturday.  I _do_ need new glasses.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jun 9, 2011)

Grifter finally has been confirmed.

Now other than giving Deathstroke his own series again, another Johan Hex series with All-Star Wester, Blackhawks set in the modern day without any sign of Zinda Blake so far, and Sgt. Rock and the Men of War starring his grandson.

The biggest surprise happens to be Stormwatch, where it mentions Jack Hawksmoor along with Apollo, Midnighter and Martian Manhunter on the team.


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## Villano (Jun 9, 2011)

More info:  Martian Manhunter's "Stormwatch," "Deathstroke" In DC's Latest - Comic Book Resources

STORMWATCH #1, by Paul Cornell and Miguel Sepulveda (with Martian Manhunter on the team)

BLACKHAWKS #1, by Mike Costa and Ken Lashley (set in the modern day)

SGT. ROCK AND THE MEN OF WAR #1, by Ivan Brandon and Tom Derenick (set in the modern day and starring the original Rock's descendant)

ALL-STAR WESTERN #1, by Justin Gray and Jimmy Palmiotti and art by Moritat (replacing Jonah Hex?)

DEATHSTROKE #1, by Kyle Higgins and artists Joe Bennett and Art Thibert (with Deathstroke in an ugly new costume)

And Grifter is finally confirmed.

Hmmm.  Unless my math is off, I'm counting a total of 53 titles.  I don't think there were any official announcements for Supergirl or Vigilante, so those might just be rumors.  Unless DC is doing more than 52 books?

EDIT:  Sorry Kobold Avenger, I was writing my message when you were posting your's.


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## Villano (Jun 9, 2011)

Okay, here's the list of _officially_ announced titles:

1. All-Star Western
2. Animal Man 
3. Aquaman 
4. Batgirl 
5. Batman 
6. Batman and Robin 
7. Batman: The Dark Knight 
8. Batwing 
9. Batwoman 
10. Birds of Prey 
11. Blackhawks
12. Captain Atom 
13. Catwoman 
14. DC Universe Presents 
15. Deathstroke
16. Demon Knights 
17. Detective Comics 
18. Frankenstein, Agent of Shade 
19. Green Arrow 
20. Green Lantern 
21. Green Lantern Corps 
22. Green Lantern: The New Guardians 
23. Grifter
24. Hawk and Dove
25. I, Vampire 
26. Justice League 
27. Justice League Dark 
28. Justice League International 
29. Legion Lost
30. Legion of Super-Heroes
31. Mister Terrific 
32. Nightwing 
33. OMAC
34. Red Hood and the Outlaws 
35. Red Lanterns 
36. Resurrection Man 
37. Sgt. Rock and the Men of War
38. Static Shock
39. Stormwatch
40. Swamp Thing 
41. Teen Titans
42. The Flash 
43. The Fury of Firestorm 
44. The Savage Hawkman 
45. Voodoo 
46. Wonder Woman


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## Pinotage (Jun 9, 2011)

If anything it appears I now have more comics to read! Having said that, please let them not make a big mess of things!

Pinotage


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## Villano (Jun 9, 2011)

Suicide Squad added - Newsarama.com : DCnU | DC Revamp | Exclusive Update: SUICIDE SQUAD & More DCnU 'Edge' Titles

Superman, Superboy, and Supergirl - New Superman, Supergirl And Superboy Redesign Images Revealed - Comic Vine

Supergirl looks okay aside from the exposed knees.  Superboy doesn't look anything like the Teen Titans cover (and he's apparently a robot).

Superman looks horrible.  Is he wearing armor?

EDIT:  And it looks like Blue Beetle is back too - http://goodcomics.comicbookresources.com/2011/06/09/dc-is-doing-a-blue-beetle-comic/


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## Felon (Jun 10, 2011)

I so wanted to believe they were doing a real reboot. I mean, to me it just seems that comic books universes should do that every other generation. It worked wonders for DC's silver age. 

But then they're faced with doing stuff like killing off Grant Morrison's Batman Inc, and they flinch. They can't really do it. So it's a reboot, but it's a cop-out reboot that's in media res. It's kind of a lousy way to do a reboot, because watching a hero learn the ropes and form relationships with allies and enemies is the most interesting part of a hero's mythos.  

So, Wildstorm is going to be merged with mainstream DCU? Midnighter and Apollo will be running around bumping into their counterparts, Superman and Batman. "Hey, look, Apollo, there are those two icons that we're total knock-offs of!"


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## Klaus (Jun 10, 2011)

Judging strictly by the cover, Apollo and Midnighter seem to be a bit different. Apollo looks more like a roman version of Black Adam (White Adam?  ) and Midnighter looks more like a version of Shadowhawk (the armored Image character).


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## Kobold Avenger (Jun 10, 2011)

Felon said:


> But then they're faced with doing stuff like killing off Grant Morrison's Batman Inc, and they flinch. They can't really do it. So it's a reboot, but it's a cop-out reboot that's in media res. It's kind of a lousy way to do a reboot, because watching a hero learn the ropes and form relationships with allies and enemies is the most interesting part of a hero's mythos.



There were parts where they said, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and it was most of the Batman and Green Lantern titles.

There are things that still are being changed with Batman, after all Barbara Gordon isn't a paraplegic anymore, and Bruce is a little more patient with Damien who previously refused to have him as a sidekick.


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## Felon (Jun 10, 2011)

Kobold Avenger said:


> There were parts where they said, "if it ain't broke don't fix it" and it was most of the Batman and Green Lantern titles.




So they're trying to eat their cake and have it too, trying to create fresh starts while maintaining something like Batman inc, which is as postmodern, jaded, and convuluted as comics can get. There is no such thing as rebooting halfway. That's the entire point of appropriating the term "reboot" from its computer origins.

And "Daimon Wayne"? Is he going to grow up to be Blankman?


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## Viking Bastard (Jun 11, 2011)

While I have some serious Crisis fatigue and I haven't been able to get excited about this*, I don't really care about continuity. While I am the kind of fanatic DC geek who can spout obscure trivia on command, I don't really care what the exact status quo of the DCU is at any given moment. Retcon aplenty, I don't care. In fact, I wish they'd stop worrying about it. Let each story be it's own thing and let the writers play with whatever version of the character they want. Let them reference whatever stories they want, as long the story is internally consistent and makes it apparent where it's going to stray from the norm. 

So what if Aquaman's title doesn't sync up with the JLA title? It works for Donald Duck. It works for Spirou. It works just as well for Superman.

But I wish they'd stop merging their universes. The Fawcett characters have never fit into the DCU and it kinda ruined them. I don't really see Wildstorm fitting any better; it's a cynical universe, which the DCU ain't.

I may eat my words, of course...  the Charlton characters did fit pretty snuggly, after all.


* Except for more of Grant Morrison's Superman, yay!


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## Villano (Jun 11, 2011)

Felon said:


> I so wanted to believe they were doing a real reboot. I mean, to me it just seems that comic books universes should do that every other generation. It worked wonders for DC's silver age.
> 
> But then they're faced with doing stuff like killing off Grant Morrison's Batman Inc, and they flinch. They can't really do it. So it's a reboot, but it's a cop-out reboot that's in media res. It's kind of a lousy way to do a reboot, because watching a hero learn the ropes and form relationships with allies and enemies is the most interesting part of a hero's mythos.




I don't think they ever intended to do a an actual reboot.  The people running DC want the Siver Age (the comics they read as kids) and the things they're writing right now and nothing in between.  Since DiDio's been in charge, they've been retconning the Post-Crisis stuff little by little.  Now they can just chop out everything that's happen (and all characters that have been created) between 1985 and 2005.

I didn't want them to do a reboot at first, now I wish they had actually done one instead of this sort of confusing half step.  They're not going to bring in new readers with the Red Lantern Corps or Batman having a son.  Those aren't what I would call "jumping on points".


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## Elodan (Jun 11, 2011)

I generally just pick up DC (and occasionally Marvel) trades about the heroes and authors who interest me.  I thought this might be a nice way to start picking up individual issues but what I'm seeing and hearing has me more confused as to the point of this.  Feels like a stunt.


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## Jared Rascher (Jun 12, 2011)

Part of me actually thinks DC did need a reboot.  I think that there is a lot of baggage from some stories like Identity Crisis that really weighs down the current DC Universe, and there is this strange disconnect between pushing the Silver Age versions of some characters while still doing stories like Cry for Justice that seem to try and out Iron Age the 90s.

However, there seems to be a threefold model that is very much working against a clean slate starting point for new fans, or old fans that want a new point to jump onto the books.

1.  Green Lantern and Batman Incorporated are "sort of" not affected, in that everything that isn't changed in someone else's books still happened in these books.  This is the most confusing issue in the whole endeavor.  

On one had, they are popular books, on the other hands, Secret Six and Power Girl are as well, yet they get sacrificed on the reboot altar.  I really don't want to say its obvious that Johns and Morrison get to dictate their own terms, but there it is.

2.  Because Jim Lee is one of the head honchos, Wildstorm characters and concepts now exist in the DC Universe.  Including characters that are pretty much meant to be versions of DC characters with a harder edge to examine similar themes from different angles.  

Either those characters are going to change drastically to not be alternate versions of their inspirations, or they are going to be confusing to new readers.  And if they do change so as to not be alternate versions of their inspired heroes, what's the point of introducing them.

Not to mention the weirdness of introducing some Wildcats characters and part of the Wildcats plot, in a universe that has a lot more established alien races.

3.  Some characters are getting the massive reset buttons hit on them.  Tim Drake didn't become Red Robin after having been Robin?  He just spontaneously exists outside of the Batman family because people liked him on the Titans?  But why did they like him?  Because he was the Titans version of Batman!  And how accessible is it to have Robin being Batman's son by Ra's al Ghul's daughter?  

I'm not saying you can't tell that story, but it seems a bit more complicated then just having the standard, "touched by tragedy" adopted sidekick angle that people already "get" from various other versions of Batman over the years.


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## Klaus (Jun 12, 2011)

Paul Cornell, who's writing the new Stormwatch, said that Apollo and Midnighter will be less comparable to SUperman and Batman. OTOH, they're still a proud gay couple.

It's impossible to predict if this is a reboot or relaunch or whatever, really. So many things are incompatible with each other (Dick was Batman, but Babs wasn't Oracle and Tim wasn't Robin? Bart is Kid Flash, but there's no mention of Wally).


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## Dire Bare (Jun 13, 2011)

As I've stated upthread, I'm not much of a comic collector or reader, but . . .

Are you guys getting more info on character details from somewhere . . . or is there an awful lot of assumptions going on here?  Seriously, I can't tell!

This is a soft reboot, most characters will still be recognizable, as will there backstories.  They are not starting over from "Day One", at least not for most characters.  It's more of a clean-up, a streamlining, rather than a reimagining.  To worry about what plotlines "happened" in the new DCU seems silly to me as it is obvious . . . whichever plotlines serve the story as it is being written (or, in other terms, not even DC fully knows yet!).

Is the Titans "Robin" no longer "Red Robin", oddly divorced from the Bat Family?  Or is he pretty much the same character as before, just with a new look?  Is Barbara Gordon retconned out of a wheelchair, or within continuityish, is she healed, keeping her backstory as Oracle and retaking the mantle of Batgirl?  Etc, etc.

Do we know yet?  Do you guys have info I'm missing?  Or are we assuming we already know the details that DC has not yet released?  A curious mind wants to know!


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## Villano (Jun 13, 2011)

Dire Bear, I get most of my info at comicvine.com, newsarama.com, and comicbookresources.com.

Most info is pieced together by press releases and interviews.  DC has said that some characters will no longer exist and others will have their history either completely or partially rewritten.  They also said the Morrison's Batman and Johns' Green Lantern work will remain intact.

This is part of the reason people are upset.  It appears everything is being rebooted to one extent or another _except_ the Morrison and Johns stuff, which as KnightErrantJR says, looks like favoritism.

For example, Brightest Day (written by Johns) still exists, but Firestorm, who appeared in the story, is now being rebooted (from DC press release "Jason Rusch and Ronnie Raymond are two high school students, worlds apart – and now they’re drawn into a conspiracy of super science that bonds them forever in a way they can’t explain or control").  

And we have Aquaman, which will be written by Johns.  He's said that Aquaman will remember the events of the Flashpoint mini-series (also written by Johns) which was set in an alternate universe. 

As to Time Drake/Red Robin, the description of Teen Titans is, "Tim Drake is forced to step out from behind his keyboard when an international organization seeks to capture or kill super-powered teenagers. As Red Robin, he must team up with the mysterious and belligerent powerhouse thief known as Wonder Girl and a hyperactive speedster calling himself Kid Flash."

So, Wonder Girl is totally rebooted and it sounds like Tim was never Robin and this is the first time he's meeting the other characters.  

And Kid Flash is Bart Allen, Flash is Barry Allen, and Wally is...I don't think they've said if he even exists now.

As for Batgirl, I have no idea if she was ever Oracle, but I think I read that they were making her younger.  I'm honestly not certain on that one.

So it's a hard reboot on some things, soft reboot on others, but they are going to carry over everything written by Morrison and Johns but it's supposed to make things less confusing.


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## Dire Bare (Jun 13, 2011)

Villano said:


> So it's a hard reboot on some things, soft reboot on others, but they are going to carry over everything written by Morrison and Johns but it's supposed to make things less confusing.




I think it will be simpler, less confusing, for folks jumping in at issue(s) #1 . . . but for long time fans, yeah, it seems pretty confusing.  Will it be less confusing in September?  Somehow, I doubt it.

And again, why do we need Batman #1, Detective Comics #1, Batman: The Dark Knight #1, and Batman & Robin #1?!?!?!  I realize this is nothing new and these multiple redundant titles have all been around for a while . . . but if we're going to streamline and simplify things, how about just Batman #1 and that's it?

But again, when it comes to details of how far the reboot reaches with individual characters . . . there's definitely a bewildering variety of changes ranging from minor to major and the hints DC is releasing are frustratingly vague . . . but I'm finding it hard to separate solid hints from fan (and news reporting) assumptions.  Forex, nothing in the quote you gave me about Drake tells me he wasn't formerly Robin and Red Robin . . . but today I've seen the same assertion that he wasn't on iO9.  Is it possible Drake took a sabbatical, but was pulled back into the superhero world from his "keyboard"?  Gordon's Batgirl is another good example.  A lot of folks seem to be assuming her wheelchair is retconned away, and it might be, but I don't think we know that yet.  She wouldn't be the first comic book hero to be miraculously cured from a paraplegic state!

I guess it doesn't really matter, we'll all find out soon enough in September.  I guess it just goes to show how crazy we all are about this stuff!


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## Jamdin (Jun 13, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> And again, why do we need Batman #1, Detective Comics #1, Batman: The Dark Knight #1, and Batman & Robin #1?!?!?!  I realize this is nothing new and these multiple redundant titles have all been around for a while . . . but if we're going to streamline and simplify things, how about just Batman #1 and that's it?




I would have liked to see some other character(s) in Detective Comics than Batman for a change. Slam Bradley, Elongated Man and Human Target quickly comes to my mind.


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## Villano (Jun 13, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> Gordon's Batgirl is another good example.  A lot of folks seem to be assuming her wheelchair is retconned away, and it might be, but I don't think we know that yet.  She wouldn't be the first comic book hero to be miraculously cured from a paraplegic state!




I think people are assuming things because she's supposed to have been de-aged.  I guess they are assuming that she's going to be knocked back to the age she was when she started being Batgirl.  

I don't think there's any solid info on her other than the fact that it's Barbara Gordon again.



Jamdin said:


> I would have liked to see some other character(s) in Detective Comics than Batman for a change. Slam Bradley, Elongated Man and Human Target quickly comes to my mind.




YES!  If I was in charge of the reboot, I would have a Batman solo title, Batman & Robin for the duo, and have a rotating cast of detectives and Gotham characters for Detective.  

Of course, Batman sells, so it makes sense to put him in a dozen books from a business perspective.


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 13, 2011)

Jamdin said:


> I would have liked to see some other character(s) in Detective Comics than Batman for a change. Slam Bradley, Elongated Man and Human Target quickly comes to my mind.




Quastion...eaither one (my pref would be vic as quastion and renee as his partner)


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## Klaus (Jun 13, 2011)

DC has released the solicitations for the relaunch titles, and Tim Drake is still Batman's former sidekick.

Justice League #1 and Action Comics #1 will be set in the past, and then jump to the present with their #2.


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## Villano (Jun 23, 2011)

Some more news:  DC Roadshow Hits Dallas ? Million Dollar Ad Spend, Justice League Beyond And Black People Bleeding Cool Comic Book, Movies and TV News and Rumors

I found this part to be the most interesting:



> Many of the new 52 books will have six issue story arcs, and Dan DiDio states that if sales are bad on a title, they won’t wait very long to cancel it. He wants strong sales across the line.




Anyone else think that about 1/4 of the relaunch titles won't be around after 6 months?


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## Felon (Jun 25, 2011)

Six-issue story arcs are the order of the day now, because they lend themselves to the trade paperback format. A lot of folks want something they can put on a shelf--expensive as they are, it's hard to see comics as disposable. Personally, I prefer at least a year's worth of stories, but what they seem to be moving towards is a small trade followed by a bigger "omnibus" compilation.

In some cases, as with Boom Comics publishing Makr Waid's Irredeemable and Incorruptable, we don't even get that. Just four issues, plus some sketches and excerpts from B-grade comics. 

Cancelling unusccessful lines does sort of make sense. I think it's perfectly sensible to just let a comic story play itself out and then that's it for a while. Leave fans craving more, rather than become disinterested by weak stories that just exist to fulfill a monthly commitment.


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## megamania (Jun 26, 2011)

I'm curious how Marvel will react to this if it succeeds or fails.


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## Villano (Jun 26, 2011)

megamania said:


> I'm curious how Marvel will react to this if it succeeds or fails.




So far...they're making fun of it.  

Marvel Still Acting Like Marvel? Bleeding Cool Comic Book, Movies and TV News and Rumors

As to how they will react in the future, well, I suppose that depends on what defines success.  In terms of percentage of monthly comic sales, I think Marvel does in the low-to-mid 40s and DC does in the mid-to-high 20s.  After things settle down after the first issue sales bump, if DC only gains a point or two, I doubt Marvel will care.

I'm not sure what they'll do if DC overtakes Marvel.  Honestly, I don't really see that happening.  I think DC will lose some old readers, gains some new ones, lose some of those new readers over time, and everything will end up about where it is now.

If the reboot totally bombs...I'm sure Marvel will just make fun of it some more.


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 27, 2011)

I'm not buying Superman's new armor.  The guy is supposed to be super tough, so putting armored plating on his suit makes him look weak compared to the Flash who is just wearing a "body condom" and Wonderwoman who still looks sort of stripper-iffic.


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## Felon (Jun 27, 2011)

OK, I see, I see.

They're trying to create these "film-friendly" versions of costumes. So, can't have Supes wearing trunks. Can't have yellow/gold belts and tiaras. Make the colors kind of dark and washed-out. And put plating on the costumes so that actors can wear blatantly padded outfits. And the lady hero gets pants.

Now Cyborg, he looks craptacular. He doesn't even have foot joints from what I can tell. That would make hard to do a lot of stuff.

If they are just adding him to impose diversity, I'd prefer Vixen.


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 27, 2011)

Villano said:


> So far...they're making fun of it.
> 
> Marvel Still Acting Like Marvel? Bleeding Cool Comic Book, Movies and TV News and Rumors



The IRONIC thing is that the Uncanny X-Men after that "Still #543" is Uncanny X-Men #1.  Of course, the change in number is because Cyclops wants to make the X-Men into the Justice league, but mutants only, and operating on mutant island (since the only ways to make people tolerant of you is to act superior to them, live a mile or so away from them on a secluded island and act like a nanny), while Wolverine wants to breed with as many humans as possible and attack everyone who tries to oppress mutants  (since Darwinism, armed aggression,and societal re-engineering  is better then assimilation and co-existence) .


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## Felon (Jun 27, 2011)

megamania said:


> I'm curious how Marvel will react to this if it succeeds or fails.




Marvel had their halfway-reboot with the Ultimate titles a long time ago. The films borrow liberally from them rather than the classic versions (e.g. Nick Fury).


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## Klaus (Jun 27, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> I'm not buying Superman's new armor.  The guy is supposed to be super tough, so putting armored plating on his suit makes him look weak compared to the Flash who is just wearing a "body condom" and Wonderwoman who still looks sort of stripper-iffic.



From what I can see, Superman isn't wearing armor, but actually a Kryptonian suit. That's why it has kneepads. The "S" looks more like the Superman Returns shield (and Batman, for that matter, is pretty much the Nolan version).

Wonder Woman with silver instead of gold loses some of her contrast. And what's with all the collars, Jim Lee?


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 27, 2011)

Klaus said:


> From what I can see, Superman isn't wearing armor, but actually a Kryptonian suit. That's why it has kneepads.




Well, that "Kyptonian suit" look like its armor because it's obviously composed of dozens of molded plates that conform to his body.


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## Klaus (Jun 27, 2011)

Those are, afaik, the suit's building seams. Granted, they don't conform to actual, functional building seams.


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## Sunseeker (Jun 27, 2011)

Fast Learner said:


> For those of you who are disappointed/unhappy with the reboot, I'm curious about how many DC comics you currently buy each month.



Almost all of them actually.  I've been sick of Marvel for basically what DC is about to do, constantly restarting and redoing their lines.  

Since this is gonna pretty much kill my DC subs(since most of my attraction to DC has been through the minor, soon to be gone titles).  I'm looking at Top Cow and Dark Horse making up my entire comics selection.  Yeesh that's not much.

Now DC may very well make these good reboots, but honestly when you have to de-age your characters, to make them "hip" to the "real world", you're shooting at an age group I have no interest in reading stories designed for.  The whole reason Superman didn't fight the Nazi's is because he would have won.  We can't have Wonder Woman or Batman fighting AlQueda, because they're not real and we all know they'd win, and forcing them to lose is so trite.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jun 29, 2011)

I think the costume refreshes are generally pretty good. I tend to like Jim Lee's costume redesigns. Historically, the main problem with Jim Lee's costumes has been that no one other than Jim Lee can draw them properly.

The WW costume has been in use for a while, I think. Or at least something similar. The Supes costume is a bit jarring, but doesn't really stray that far from the classic. From what I understand, the Supes costume also has something to do with establishing a distinct (trademarkable) official DC look for Supes because he's just about to go public domain.



shidaku said:


> Almost all of them actually.  I've been sick of Marvel for basically what DC is about to do, constantly restarting and redoing their lines.



Personally, I've always thought they should restart the numbering whenever they start a new "run" on a title (I put "run" in quotes, because the definition of what exactly constitutes a run is pretty malleable).


----------



## Umbran (Jun 29, 2011)

Viking Bastard said:


> From what I understand, the Supes costume also has something to do with establishing a distinct (trademarkable) official DC look for Supes because he's just about to go public domain.




I don't believe that's true.  I think rights to the original costume design may soon revert to the estates of the original creators - Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster.  

Superman Copyright Issues- Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

It gets hairy. I mean, the legal issues, not the costume.  Who needs a fur-covered Superman?


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jun 29, 2011)

Umbran said:


> I don't believe that's true.  I think rights to the original costume design may soon revert to the estates of the original creators - Jerry Siegel and Joe Schuster.
> 
> Superman Copyright Issues- Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
> 
> It gets hairy. I mean, the legal issues, not the costume.  Who needs a fur-covered Superman?




Isn't the rush on the Siegel/Shuster case because Superman is about to go public domain? Has the (oh so long and drawn out) Siegel/Shuster case changed Supes going public domain?

The rights to Superman have become incredibly confusing. As is U.S. copyright law in general.


----------



## Umbran (Jun 29, 2011)

Viking Bastard said:


> Isn't the rush on the Siegel/Shuster case because Superman is about to go public domain? Has the (oh so long and drawn out) Siegel/Shuster case changed Supes going public domain?




We have copyright lawyers around here that could answer with more authority, but as I understand it, no.  

Superman was created in 1932, and sold to Detective Comics in 1938. At the time, law allowed for copyright protection for a maximum of 56 years.  In 1976, the law extended that to 75 years, with a provision that allowed original creators to reclaim rights 56 years after the creation - if they didn't reclaim, the thing didn't go public, it just remained in the hands of whoever held it until the end of the 75 years.  In the 1990s, the term was extended to 95 years, with again another provision to extend rights.

So, S&S are the creators - their estates have filed (each separately, at different times) to regain control of the copyrights under these provisions.  If, for some obscure legal reason, these guys don't get their rights back, Warner communications will still hold the rights.  Superman was created in 1932, and under current law that creation should be protected by copyright until 2027.

It gets more complicated, because all this only applies to the *original* Superman.  Stuff added to the Superman character and mythos after 1938 are still owned by DC (which is in turn owned by Time Warner).


----------



## RangerWickett (Jun 29, 2011)

I suddenly have an idea for a comic where Superman has to save the world, but the villain is weakening him with Kryptonite, so he pleads with DC to hand over rights to S&S, since then he'll no longer have his vulnerability, since that wasn't added until later.


----------



## Umbran (Jun 29, 2011)

RangerWickett said:


> I suddenly have an idea for a comic where Superman has to save the world, but the villain is weakening him with Kryptonite, so he pleads with DC to hand over rights to S&S, since then he'll no longer have his vulnerability, since that wasn't added until later.




Yeah, but he wont' be able to fly then, either.

But what you suggest reminds me of a game (homegrown rules) in which there was a character with the power "speak with player"...


----------



## Sunseeker (Jun 29, 2011)

Viking Bastard said:


> The WW costume has been in use for a while, I think.



It's basically the Wonder Girl costume from the old animated series.  but yes she did have a recent redesign, but she had a biker-esque bolero jacket on too. http://www.blogcdn.com/www.comicsalliance.com/media/2010/06/newwwcostumefull.jpg
I'm glad they got rid of the jacket though and gave her her boots back.



> Personally, I've always thought they should restart the numbering whenever they start a new "run" on a title (I put "run" in quotes, because the definition of what exactly constitutes a run is pretty malleable).



One of my biggest issues with DC has been that their long-running titles have simply been too long.  I have no idea when to jump in to Action Comics when i have to decide between #756 or #785.  Sure Marvel has some of these problems too, but I think they could make it a whole lot easier by keeping your average run to be under 100 comics.  Split the story into a new run when you need to, and end any run when it's story has run it's course.  

One of my big loves for Dark Horse and their Star Wars comics is they never run over 50 issues.


----------



## Welverin (Jun 29, 2011)

Umbran said:


> We have copyright lawyers around here that could answer with more authority, but as I understand it, no.




The simple answer is: Was it created after Mickey Mouse? If yes, then it's not public domain.



shidaku said:


> One of my biggest issues with DC has been that their long-running titles have simply been too long.  I have no idea when to jump in to Action Comics when i have to decide between #756 or #785.  Sure Marvel has some of these problems too, but I think they could make it a whole lot easier by keeping your average run to be under 100 comics.  Split the story into a new run when you need to, and end any run when it's story has run it's course.




You just need to watch for the start of a new storyline or better yet, a change in writers. Those are the times to start picking a series up.


----------



## Villano (Jun 29, 2011)

Viking Bastard said:


> The WW costume has been in use for a while, I think. Or at least something similar.




I normally hate the Jim Lee designs on WW, but I actually really like the take of the current costume on the top cover here: Wonder Woman #612 - The Odyssey, Part 12: Ghosts of the Gods (comic book issue) - Comic Vine


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jun 30, 2011)

Umbran said:


> We have copyright lawyers around here that could answer with more authority, but as I understand it, no.




Excellent overview. Thanks.

(Will someone XP the man for me?)




Villano said:


> I normally hate the Jim Lee designs on WW, but I actually really like the take of the current costume on the top cover here: Wonder Woman #612 - The Odyssey, Part 12: Ghosts of the Gods (comic book issue) - Comic Vine




I like it!


----------



## megamania (Jul 4, 2011)

RangerWickett said:


> I suddenly have an idea for a comic where Superman has to save the world, but the villain is weakening him with Kryptonite, so he pleads with DC to hand over rights to S&S, since then he'll no longer have his vulnerability, since that wasn't added until later.




sounds like a MAD Magazine scit


----------



## Viking Bastard (Jul 5, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> Breaking the 4th wall is She-Hulk and Dead Pool's schtick. I don't think it will fly in the DCU




Well, before there was Deadpool, there was Ambush Bug.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Jul 18, 2011)

DC Blog via Comics Aliance said:
			
		

> * This Superman is very much an alien, one struggling to adjust to his adopted home. In the series, he must come to terms with both the loss of his home world, as well as the loss of both of his adopted parents. He is more Kal-El from the planet Krypton than Clark Kent from Kansas. He's a loner trying to find his place in the world.
> 
> ** The series' first storyline will explore the origins of Superman's costume, as it evolves from a look that includes jeans and work boots to a new look: a suit of battle armor that pays tribute to his Kryptonian past.
> *
> ...



Emphasis mine.

Looks like I was right... Superman is now wearing battle armor.

What I wonder is if the DC Adventures RPG will use pre or post reboot versions of the characters.


----------



## Agamon (Jul 19, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> What I wonder is if the DC Adventures RPG will use pre or post reboot versions of the characters.




Well, right now it's pre-, of course, but I'm guessing there'll be a post- handbook available eventually.


----------



## billd91 (Jul 19, 2011)

Welverin said:


> The simple answer is: Was it created after Mickey Mouse? If yes, then it's not public domain.




Steamboat Willie was 1928. There's your benchmark. As long as the US government extends copyright protection to protect Disney, Superman is also protected.


----------



## jmucchiello (Jul 21, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> What I wonder is if the DC Adventures RPG will use pre or post reboot versions of the characters.




When Green Ronin announced the DC RPG they stated explicitly that there would be exactly 4 books for the line. I doubt that leaves room for an update, besides Chris said they didn't want to try to stay "up to date". Link to interview


----------



## Relique du Madde (Jul 21, 2011)

jmucchiello said:


> When Green Ronin announced the DC RPG they stated explicitly that there would be exactly 4 books for the line. I doubt that leaves room for an update, besides Chris said they didn't want to try to stay "up to date". Link to interview




That makes me wonder if and how much they may have found out about the upcoming change and how recent the material they were allowed to use was.


----------



## Dire Bare (Jul 22, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> That makes me wonder if and how much they may have found out about the upcoming change and how recent the material they were allowed to use was.




I don't think it really matters.  Green Ronin has stated they are trying to go for "iconic" versions of the characters without going into too much specifics about comics continuity.  The upcoming DC reboot isn't going to pull most characters too far from their "iconic center" (if you will), and probably won't affect GR's plans.


----------



## jmucchiello (Jul 26, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> I don't think it really matters.  Green Ronin has stated they are trying to go for "iconic" versions of the characters without going into too much specifics about comics continuity.  The upcoming DC reboot isn't going to pull most characters too far from their "iconic center" (if you will), and probably won't affect GR's plans.




Superman is losing ma and pa kent and will be more of a fish out of water concept. If that is not far from his iconic center, I must not understand the phrase.


----------



## Klaus (Jul 26, 2011)

jmucchiello said:


> Superman is losing ma and pa kent and will be more of a fish out of water concept. If that is not far from his iconic center, I must not understand the phrase.



Ma and Pa Kent being alive during Clark's Superman career was introduced in the 1986 reboot. From 1938 to 1986, they died before Clark's adult debut (but when Superboy was introduced, we finally met them, as they were alive during the Boy of Steel's adventures).

Outside of that, Ma Kent was alive in the movies. Every Superman cartoon or series post-86 included Ma and Pa.


----------



## Dire Bare (Jul 27, 2011)

jmucchiello said:


> Superman is losing ma and pa kent and will be more of a fish out of water concept. If that is not far from his iconic center, I must not understand the phrase.




"Fish-out-of-water" is just emphasizing a part of Superman's story that's always been there . . . he is the Last Son of Krypton after all (well, except for Supergirl, New Krypton, sigh).

And depending on the current backstory of the comics (or tv show, or movie), sometimes both Kent parents are alive, sometimes both are dead, sometimes just Ma is still around . . . this "change" is also nothing new.


----------



## jmucchiello (Jul 27, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> "Fish-out-of-water" is just emphasizing a part of Superman's story that's always been there . . . he is the Last Son of Krypton after all (well, except for Supergirl, New Krypton, sigh).



Clark Kent has NEVER been a fish out of water. In his head, he is (was) a kid who grew on a farm in Kansas, with two loving parents. He is entirely a "normal" American kid. Even though he runs around in the blue tights for Justice and has a bunch of super powers. He thinks of himself as Clark. Kal El and Superman are not his core personas. 

Wonder Woman is the fish-out-of-water hero. She grew on an isolated island of Ancient Greecian decent with a culture far removed from that of modern day mankind.

Clark Kent listened to popular music as a kid. Had a gameboy or its equivalent depending on the time period. Went to the prom. Has seen a bunch of movies many other people his age has seen. He "gets" modern culture/lifestyles.

Diana Prince is a persona Princess Diana puts on. She did not grow up watching movies or going to proms or playing video games or what have you. Her value system should be different from a modern person's value system. And thus she is a fish-out-of-water.

That said, the implication I read implied Kal El is not an infant when he travels to Earth. So his value system is not crafted by an upbringing of a pair of Kansas farmers. He is Kryptonian in his outlook and Clark Kent is a disguise he uses to try to fit in. That is a complete change to who Superman is. Because what man Superman relateable was the fact that he was just a good ole' American boy with superpowers.

From what I understand, ongoing lawsuits from the family of Superman's original creators (Siegel and Shuster) are making DC attempt to remove all the traits they created for Superman from his ethos.


----------



## jmucchiello (Jul 27, 2011)

Klaus said:


> Ma and Pa Kent being alive during Clark's Superman career was introduced in the 1986 reboot. From 1938 to 1986, they died before Clark's adult debut (but when Superboy was introduced, we finally met them, as they were alive during the Boy of Steel's adventures).



I was implying they might not exist at all. Clark Kent becomes a disguise Kal El uses to fit in among the humans. He does not grow up as the adopted son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. Alive or dead is not the issue here.


----------



## Klaus (Jul 27, 2011)

jmucchiello said:


> I was implying they might not exist at all. Clark Kent becomes a disguise Kal El uses to fit in among the humans. He does not grow up as the adopted son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. Alive or dead is not the issue here.



No, the Kents stay in the new continuity. Grant Morrison said as much. They'll just be already dead when Clark decides to don his baby blanket ( :facepalm: ) to fight corruption and injustice.


----------



## Dire Bare (Jul 28, 2011)

jmucchiello said:


> I was implying they might not exist at all. Clark Kent becomes a disguise Kal El uses to fit in among the humans. He does not grow up as the adopted son of Jonathan and Martha Kent. Alive or dead is not the issue here.




He may not have landed as an infant, but rather as a young child . . . of what age I'm not sure they've revealed yet.  Ma & Pa Kent find him and adopt him as "usual", but they pass away before his debut as Superman.

This also isn't new, nor all that far from "normal" for Supes.  It may be different from the current continuity, but isn't a radical departure.  IMO.

Also, how much "Clark" is a disguise hasn't been revealed yet, as far as I know.

"Fish out of water" is probably a poor descriptor, as it implies someone unfamiliar with "normal" culture, as you pointed out.  But Supes is still the ultimate orphan.  And the ultimate loner . . . it's not a new aspect of his personality, but one which seems to hold a heavier weight in the new continuity.


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## jmucchiello (Jul 28, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> "Fish out of water" is probably a poor descriptor, as it implies someone unfamiliar with "normal" culture, as you pointed out.



Exactly my point.


> But Supes is still the ultimate orphan.  And the ultimate loner . . . it's not a new aspect of his personality, but one which seems to hold a heavier weight in the new continuity.



No, this is different. Supes generally still identifies with humanity because by growing up from baby to adult like a human he "gets" humanity. By having him as a thinking alien before arriving in Kansas, it is a huge departure for Supes. And it is not anything they've ever explored before. He was never able to compare life on Earth with time he ACTUALLY spent on Krypton before. That is also a huge departure. (Yes, I know he received an info dump from his dead father as young man but that's not the same as actually living on Krypton and hugging his actual parents, etc.)


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 31, 2011)

Villano said:


> Some more info:
> 
> It seems that the picture is of the new "original" line-up of the Justice League.  Martian Manhunter out/ Cyborg in.
> 
> ...



Multiple JLA series, but the Martian Manhunter is in none of them and not on the pic posted in this thread (I assume the bald guy in the up-left corner is Deadman). At least he will be in Stormwatch. I'm a little afraid of his new origin and how he ended up in a team with the homosexual version of the DC icons...

(BTW, I really liked the Mark Millar run of Authority  )


----------



## Walking Dad (Jul 31, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> ...
> 
> What I wonder is if the DC Adventures RPG will use pre or post reboot versions of the characters.



Maybe Jim Lee will make a petition to allow one more book with all the Wildstorm characters that are now part of the standard DC universe


----------



## Jack7 (Jul 31, 2011)

I like many comic book heroes, but I'm becoming very tired of comic books and comic book worlds.


----------



## Walking Dad (Aug 1, 2011)

BTW, will they keep the 'Flashpoint' villain 'The Outsider'?

I just realized that the original was the mutated Alfred who tried to turn Batman and Robin int coffins...


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## Kobold Avenger (Aug 2, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> BTW, will they keep the 'Flashpoint' villain 'The Outsider'?
> 
> I just realized that the original was the mutated Alfred who tried to turn Batman and Robin int coffins...



I think they implied he wasn't Alfred, as the Outsider received a report that his spy by the name of Alfred Pennyworth was killed in action.


----------



## Truth Seeker (Aug 23, 2011)

Update--PreOrders for Justice League 1--200,000

6 other titles---100,000.

Link


----------



## Truth Seeker (Aug 31, 2011)

*SPOILERS!!!! Review of new '52' Jsutice League #1*

*CBR Review*


----------



## Relique du Madde (Aug 31, 2011)

WAIT!  Why does the Flashpoint 5 reveal seem familiar?  



[sblock=House of M's Reveal]













[/sblock]

Damn 



Spoiler



speedsters


 mess everything up.


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## Walking Dad (Sep 1, 2011)

Because speedsters changing time history? 
And it is always not the one you suspected? 

BTW, I hate the DC bashing on some other boards for doing a big ret-con and applauding Marvel for doing it better:

Clone Saga
Brand New Day

and in fear iself nearly all of Paris is killed and Tony Stark is drinking again...

With the IP struggle around Superman I think this changes have a good chance to last as they cannot easily change back to Supes old history.

What I dislike is the Cyborg in the JLA instead of the Martian Manhunter... but with Stormwatch he had maybe got the coller tem 

----

I also like the new costumes Jim Lee designed (and the way HE is drawing them). I would like to see his drawing of the Stormwatch team as I didn't like their designs not as much.

[sblock=Pictures]
















[/sblock]

Hear you can find covers and 'previews' on the stories covered in the first 3 issues of all 52 titles. Juust select the covers:
http://dcu.blog.dccomics.com/the-new-52/


----------



## Kobold Avenger (Sep 1, 2011)

I suspect we won't find out who mystery woman is until some big crossover event.  It's interesting they do show wildCATS on one panel showing the three separate timelines, since other than Grifter and Voodoo, there's no sign of them in the DCnU.  

Don't know with what's with the explanation that those specific Vertigo characters were a separate timeline, as I was sure they were always sort of part of the main DCU.

As for Justice League I wish we got to see the modern lineup sooner, but I know they have to show how the band assembled.  I think the highlight of that issue was Hal saying "You're not just some guy in a bat costume, are you?"


----------



## Relique du Madde (Sep 2, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> BTW, I hate the DC bashing on some other boards for doing a big ret-con and applauding Marvel for doing it better:
> 
> Clone Saga
> Brand New Day




No one applauds Marvel over those. True Marvel fans hate BND's  Mary Jane is a cruel hearted female dog reveal (Ending your relationship via a reality warp so people would forget your husband's true identity because he can't handle people knowing who he is and to save his 70 year old aunt's life?!).  Seriously... why didn;t Peter Parker run over to the X-Men (who he hangs out with) and solve his problems using their Healer who can fix a damaged human heart and their two Telipaths who are the strongest two telipaths on the entire planet?

What's even worse about the nU is that Marvel is starting to think "maybe we should reboot the 616 also." 



> and in fear iself nearly all of Paris is killed and Tony Stark is drinking again...



Fear Itself and anything Fraction writes is utter crap.  I wish they would divorce X-men from Avenger Events  their inclusion in Fear Itself event makes X-Schism fail.

If X-Schism happened after Fear Itself I could get why Coloss-naut would not want to wear his Juggernaut helmet while going into San Francisco... but I don't think that he would be defeated by a bunch of kids with head slugs... since he's now demon powered mutant capable of fighting Hulk to a standstill due to being a Juggernaut.

However, if X-Schism happened before or at the same time as Fear ITself then it doesn't make sense why "Team Stabby" would stick around Utopia to fight for Cyclops especially if Wolverine and him just fought against each other to a bloody pulp over whatever they are revealed to be fighting over 



Spoiler



besides of Ide killing a bunch of mooks with her fire and ice powers since she wasn't trained to use her powers non-fatally and Cyclops decided not to instruct her how to defeat her enemies without killing them.



Even worse is the fact that in Fear Itself Wolverine is fighting in like 10 places at once and new Atlantis, which is located under the X-Men's base, was destroyed without the X-Men doing anything.  



Overall.. as far as the nU is concerned, they better not touch the Endless.


----------



## Welverin (Sep 2, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> No one applauds Marvel over those. True Marvel fans hate BND's  Mary Jane is a cruel hearted female dog reveal (Ending your relationship via a reality warp so people would forget your husband's true identity because he can't handle people knowing who he is and to save his 70 year old aunt's life?!).  Seriously... why didn;t Peter Parker run over to the X-Men (who he hangs out with) and solve his problems using their Healer who can fix a damaged human heart and their two Telipaths who are the strongest two telipaths on the entire planet?




Because Joe Quesada didn't like the fact Peter was married and this was there way of undoing it.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Sep 2, 2011)

Welverin said:


> Because Joe Quesada didn't like the fact Peter was married and this was there way of undoing it.




Yeah... but there are so many other ways they could have undone it without resorting to the pressing the retcon 20+ years of history button.  If Quesada really wanted to get rid of Mary Jane he should have killed her.  Hel, if someone wanted to use MY five years down the road, resurrection is doable in the Marvel U.


----------



## Welverin (Sep 3, 2011)

Relique du Madde said:


> Yeah... but there are so many other ways they could have undone it without resorting to the pressing the retcon 20+ years of history button.  If Quesada really wanted to get rid of Mary Jane he should have killed her.  Hel, if someone wanted to use MY five years down the road, resurrection is doable in the Marvel U.




But that wouldn't solve the fundamental problem in his, and others, eyes and that's the fact that being married aged the character and that's what they disliked about it.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 3, 2011)

Welverin said:


> But that wouldn't solve the fundamental problem in his, and others, eyes and that's the fact that being married aged the character and that's what they disliked about it.



I know becoming a husband aged me 

So they did it so he 'feels' younger? And what about Spideys Avenger time where he lived with her and his Aunt in the Avengers HQ?
Did that happen at all? The only thing I hate more than ret-cons are 'part-ret-cons'.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Sep 4, 2011)

I don't see how "characters feeling old" is such an issue in comic books.  

For instance, since I'm a X-fan...  Age in the X-Universe is annoyingly inconsistant to the point of anyone complaining that "25 year old peter Parker getting married and having babies with Mary Jane makes him too old" is almost deserving of a blank stare and a shake of the head, followed by a "Really?!?"



Pixie went from 15 at the start of Messiah complex to 18 (or maybe 21) at the beginning of Manisfest Destiny.  In Marvel universe time that was 3 weeks!  In real time this happened over the course of one year.

Jubilee went from 20/21 during New Warriors to 19 (?!?!) in X-Men: Curse of the Mutants.  This happened in the course of 2-3 years.

Emma Frost went from 45 to 30 to 60 to 25 to 29 to 27 to 24  then back to 27.

Magneto and  Charles Xavier are annoying since they are teenagers during WWII yet are often written as if they are in their 40s/50s..  Even worse, is the fact that Obama is the current president of the us meaning that they should be in their 70s or 80s.  Did I mention Magneto is currently being pushed into a relationship with Rogue, who is 24/27 (barf)?

Then there's the newest youngest member of the X-men... a 14 year old that often is drawn as a 20 year old.  


/facepalm


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 4, 2011)

But maried/ having kids says 'old', while caring for an older relative makes you 'young'. It is all above perceived age and how you keep some characters to their golden/best age in term of 'how old' while showing other grow up (the FF kids).

Funny Fear Itself moment:

The Human Torch dies some issues before, everyone is sad. The Thing dies and Franklin brings him back. Seem he didn't like his real uncle as much...


----------



## Relique du Madde (Sep 4, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> The Human Torch dies some issues before, everyone is sad. The Thing dies and Franklin brings him back. Seem he didn't like his real uncle as much...




It's funny you mention that considering that X-Men characters keep getting pissed about the injuries/deaths they received as a result of their uber-healer having been written out of the books right before Second Coming.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 4, 2011)

I still miss Nightcrawler aka The Good German of Marvel Comics. I still get the villains, but it was nice to have a nice one around... (and he is an Errol Flynn fan)


----------



## Welverin (Sep 4, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> The Human Torch dies some issues before, everyone is sad. The Thing dies and Franklin brings him back. Seem he didn't like his real uncle as much...




Difference is that The Thing died right in front of him, Johnny was on the bottom of a scrum on the other side of a closing portal to the negative zone, i.e. they have an easy out when they decide to bring him back, since his alleged death was never shown.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 5, 2011)

You mean he wasn't as emotional affected? As Franklin created a whole universe once, getting someone from another dimension shouldn't be as hard...

But I don't want to argue about comic book logic


----------



## Relique du Madde (Sep 5, 2011)

Welverin said:


> *Johnny was on the bottom of a scrum on the other side of a closing portal *




You go to be kidding me.  That's just lazy considering that Cable* "died" last year by having an Alternate-Future Time Portal closing on him.




* *EDITORS NOTE*: _CABLE WILL RETURN THIS DECEMBER IN CABLE: REBORN!_


----------



## Knightfall (Sep 11, 2011)

I bought Action Comics #1, Detective Comics #1, and Justice League International #1 this week.

Of the three, I have to say that the JLI comic is my favorite. It was very interesting. IMO, DC1 was better than AC1. But, I'm biased towards Batman over Superman.

I might still get one or two others from this week... Hawk and Dove, maybe. Or Men of War.

For Sept. 14, I'm definitely getting Grifter and Suicide Squad. Maybe Legion Lost. Also, Resurrection Man was recommended to me.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 11, 2011)

I usually favor teams over single heroes (Stormwatch, JLI). But I also like Swampthing. It is nice to see the things kept from the 'old' universe.


----------



## Kobold Avenger (Sep 12, 2011)

I picked up Animal Man, Batgirl, Justice League International, Action Comics, and Stormwatch out of the new titles this week.

I liked Action Comics, as Superman isn't Godlike yet and it was a fresh take on him.  I normally wouldn't read anything about Superman if it wasn't for Grant Morrison, but even without him writing it would still be good one.

Batgirl, after reading titles like Birds of Prey and Secret Six written by the same writer before the reboot, I was already interested.  While it was vague on how Barbara Gordon isn't paralyzed anymore, it's mainly about how she was struggling to her past injury.  I'll give this one a read as Gail Simone certainly knows Barbara the best.

Justice League International was alright, but wasn't as good as the other ones I picked up.  Many of the characters are too stereotyped, even if it's a source of minor comic relief with basically Rocket Red and August General in Iron arguing, "Russia is so great!" and "No, China is awesome!"

Animal Man I felt was the best one this week, it was mainly about Bubby Baker as a family man with no focus being a part-time superhero/actor/activist who discovers that his daughter might be something quite horrific.  It was a personal story, which was in contrast to some of the bigger titles this week.  What stands out were those Hunters, which is linked to some coming threat to the DCU, who were quite freaky such as that one with insect legs, lamprey mouth and a vagina on the neck.

Stormwatch is another favourite of mine, while some have unfairly tried to match it up against the previous Ellis run, I felt it was a good issue even if it may have had some awkward introductory expositional dialog.  Some people would notably be disappointed that it is a complete reboot of everything that happened in the Wildstorm title.  What's intriguing is that it reveals Stormwatch is a shadowy Torchwood like organization which is linked to another title Demon Knights which is coming up later, and apparently it's leaders are undead.  It's full of strange ideas, and while it's mostly the Authority with Hawksmoor, Apollo, Midnighter, Jenny Quantum and the Engineer, it does take a little from other Wildstorm titles.  I felt that the Projectionist may have been another version of the Drummer from Planetary and Martian Manhunter almost seems to be a replacement for Jackson King of the pre-Authority Stormwatch.  Again the threat in this one seems to be linked to an oncoming threat to the DCU.

In case who haven't noticed, every one of the 52 issues has a cameo appearance of that mystery hooded woman who appeared in Flashpoint #5, saying that Flash should merge the timelines together.  I was able to spot her in all the issues I got this week without help, except for Batgirl where she's obscured by bright light.


----------



## ShadowDenizen (Sep 13, 2011)

I'm not sure how long I'll continue reading the "relaunch" stuff, but at this point I picked up...

Action Comics #1
Green Arrow #1
Swamp Thing #1
Static Shock #1

In the coming weeks, I'm looknig forward to:
Red Lanterns (I'm passing on the Green Lantern stuff, since there's too many titles, but I'll give the Red one a try!!)
Catwoman  (WAY too long since they've had a Catwoman title out!!)
Superboy (I'm a completist; I have every issue printed in all the series since his first (modern) appearnce in "Return of SUperman".)


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Sep 13, 2011)

for me sofar

JL I give a 6 out of 10, good issue with alot of potential

JLI I give a 8 out of 10, great standalone issue, and funny

Action I give a 7 out of 10, lots and lits of potential, but a weird start...felt mor elike smallvile then action.

Detective fell flat, being a bat lover I refuse to rate it becuse I dont want to admit how much I disliked it.

Storm Watch was a suprise 7 out of 10 hit. I really love the great start of something I was afriad would not fit...

Static Shock OK issue 4 out of 10, I may give it one more issue to grab me.

Batgirl... ok I can;t fairly rate this fairly becuse stephanie got booted unfairly...so I guess I may not have given it a fair shake...but I disliked it...


----------



## catsclaw227 (Sep 15, 2011)

Kobold Avenger said:


> In case who haven't noticed, every one of the 52 issues has a cameo appearance of that mystery hooded woman who appeared in Flashpoint #5, saying that Flash should merge the timelines together.  I was able to spot her in all the issues I got this week without help, except for Batgirl where she's obscured by bright light.



OMG --  I just went back through he first 13 and....  you are right!

Who is this woman?


----------



## Klaus (Sep 15, 2011)

catsclaw227 said:


> OMG --  I just went back through he first 13 and....  you are right!
> 
> Who is this woman?



Rumors range from Kismet (the embodiment of the DCU) to a new Harbinger to "a way out if the new DCU doesn't pan out".


----------



## Knightfall (Sep 16, 2011)

On the weekend I added both Men of War and Stormwatch to my collection. And this week, I picked up Deathstroke, Grifter, Legion Lost, Resurrection Man, and Suicide Squad.



Kobold Avenger said:


> I liked Action Comics, as Superman isn't Godlike yet and it was a fresh take on him.  I normally wouldn't read anything about Superman if it wasn't for Grant Morrison, but even without him writing it would still be good one.



While I didn't love it, I did like it. Just not as much as Detective Comics #1.



Kobold Avenger said:


> Justice League International was alright, but wasn't as good as the other ones I picked up.  Many of the characters are too stereotyped, even if it's a source of minor comic relief with basically Rocket Red and August General in Iron arguing, "Russia is so great!" and "No, China is awesome!"



I totally loved JLI. It was my favorite from the Sept 7 releases. Right up there with DC 1 and MoW 1.



Kobold Avenger said:


> Stormwatch is another favourite of mine, while some have unfairly tried to match it up against the previous Ellis run, I felt it was a good issue even if it may have had some awkward introductory expositional dialog.  Some people would notably be disappointed that it is a complete reboot of everything that happened in the Wildstorm title.  What's intriguing is that it reveals Stormwatch is a shadowy Torchwood like organization which is linked to another title Demon Knights which is coming up later, and apparently it's leaders are undead.  It's full of strange ideas, and while it's mostly the Authority with Hawksmoor, Apollo, Midnighter, Jenny Quantum and the Engineer, it does take a little from other Wildstorm titles.  I felt that the Projectionist may have been another version of the Drummer from Planetary and Martian Manhunter almost seems to be a replacement for Jackson King of the pre-Authority Stormwatch.  Again the threat in this one seems to be linked to an oncoming threat to the DCU.



I bought the Stormwatch #1 for Martian Manhunter. However, I just didn't like the comic. It's characters didn't pull me in. Of course, I know NOTHING about SW beyond this new #1.

From this week, Suicide Squad was great! It beats out both DC 1 and JLI 1 as my favorite of the #1's I've bought so far.

I was looking forward to Grifter #1 but it was less interesting than I'd hoped it would be. I'm going to stick with it for the first story arc, regardless.

Resurrection Man #1 was very interesting as was Deathstroke #1. Deathstroke is a bad ass!! 

Legion Lost #1 was good. It was also a little odd. But I expected that.

For next week, I will definitely be getting these...

Batman
Blue Beetle 
Catwoman

And maybe one or two of these...

Birds of Prey
Nightwing
Red Hood and the Outlaws


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## catsclaw227 (Sep 16, 2011)

I'm totally new to comics after wanting to get into it most of my life.  Just too much canon, so I am stoked about this reboot.  It's for guys like me, too. 

I bought all the comics so far in digital form, and I have most of them in print.   I have no history to compare them too, I don't know what artists suck and which writers have done what to which characters.  

So far, of the first 13, I liked: Animal Man, AC-1, Stormwatch, JLI, Swamp Thing, Batgirl, and the rest were fun, but not as "OMG!!"


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 16, 2011)

The Green Lantern lines kept much of it's canon. The ones you liked would have been my suggestion for a 'fresh' start.

I have to say I really liked Stormwatch. The team is more like the Authority (the Warren Ellis run) than the normal Stormwatch team and they included my all time favorite hero:
the Martian Manhunter.


----------



## Welverin (Sep 16, 2011)

catsclaw227 said:


> I don't know what artists suck




You'll figure this out as soon as you look at them.



> and which writers have done what to which characters.




This will take some reading to figure out.

All I've read so far are Action Comics, Detective Comics, and Justice League. I liked each of them.

I plan on giving each of the Bats and GL books a try along with Aquaman, Wonder Woman, and Mr Terrific. Maybe Animal Man based on some comments I've seen.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 23, 2011)

Is the mysterious woman in the last Flashpoint issue and hidden in all new number 1 issues Glorith?


----------



## Mallus (Sep 23, 2011)

So far, I've really enjoyed Animal Man, Swamp Thing, and, surprisingly, Frankenstein: Agent of S.H.A.DE, a title I never would have read except for io9 gushing about it. 

I wasn't wowed by Morrison's Superman, but I'll keep reading it. I have faith in Grant, though I suspect he won't be able to top All-Star Superman.

I wanted to like Stormwatch, but I realize I'm only a fan when Ellis or Millar are writing it, and that it was something of a book for it's time, not the sort of thing that can bear a long, ongoing series.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 25, 2011)

Mallus said:


> ..
> 
> I wanted to like Stormwatch, but I realize I'm only a fan when Ellis or Millar are writing it, and that it was something of a book for it's time, not the sort of thing that can bear a long, ongoing series.




We will see. It was good enough for me to get the next few issues (but I dislike the costume design of the Midnighter and the Martian Manhunter looks... unusual. But better than his last change.).


----------



## jmucchiello (Sep 26, 2011)

My 6 year son loves the old Static Shock cartoons so I picked up Static Shock #1. His immediate complaint when he say the cover was that the costume was all wrong. I know it is explained why he has a new costume a few pages into the comic but he just couldn't handle to costume change. Then instead of a glowing round disc, Static was flying around NYC on a ring of six hexagons. This was also wrong in countless ways.

In fact he feigned disinterest to the whole comic as I read it to him until the final page "shocker". Now he gets to learn what waiting a month between comics is like.

Spoiler for anyone curious about the final page shocker:


Spoiler



Static is attacked by a new enemy and his left forearm appears to have been completely separated from his upper arm around the elbow by a flying disc of energy.


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Sep 27, 2011)

Storm Watch is by far the one thatt I have reread the most,


this week I picked up GLC witch was a agood story, but I felt was a little too gorey for no reason (7 out of 10)

I then got Captian Atom...and it felt like it wasn't really cap atom at all, but Dr Manhatten from watchmen and firestorm had a kid... it wasn't bad, but I am un sure if I like such a radicle new take...and heck, he says his powers are from an accedent... in my mind he got nuked in an alien shell. (5 out of 10)

I then got Supergirl it was a good re tread of the most recent orign, and becuse she was clothed I didn't feel weird like a dirty old man like back in sup/bat... (6 out of 10)

 then came Red Hood and the Outlaws...I saw this as my outsider book. I went into it expecting none of what I got...but I liked most of what I read (even if I feel dirty thinking of starfire). I can say that every moment I felt like Jason todd and Roy harper were old drinking buddies... I want to rate it low for starfire, but I can't I even enjoyed her more this way then as the "ow wowe is me dick doesn't love me"  starfire.... and I keep thinking she is just messing with the two moreons... all in all (7 out of 10)


I really want to see what comes next, this week:

 • All Star Western #1 3.99
 • Aquaman #1 2.99
 • Batman The Dark Knight #1 2.99
 • Blackhawks #1 2.99
 • Flash #1 2.99
 • Fury Of Firestorm #1 2.99
 • Green Lantern New Guardians #1 2.99
 • I Vampire #1 2.99
 • Justice League Dark #1 2.99
 • Savage Hawkman #1 2.99
 • Superman #1 2.99
 • Teen Titans #1 2.99
 • Voodoo #1 2.99
Firestorm, Green Lantern, JLD, and Titans are on my pull list, Superman, Blackhawks, and I Vampires are maybe...and I will flip through Flash and Voodoo but I doubt I will pick eaither up...


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 27, 2011)

I'm very interested to see Voodoo's new origin.


----------



## Aeolius (Sep 27, 2011)

Brother (Doctor) Voodoo gets the reboot love? Nice! As for Aquaman, I am worried... After what I heard of Starfire's treatment, I fully expect to see Aquaman in a mankini.

edit: See what happens when I post before coffee? I get Marvel in my DC!  To be fair, I stopped collecting in 1993 or thereabouts.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 27, 2011)

Brother / Doctor Voodoo is a Marvel character AFAIK, the reboot is about the Wild CATS character named Voodoo (exotic dancer who discovered she is a half-alien).


----------



## GMforPowergamers (Sep 29, 2011)

So this week was good.

I got Superman 1, and it was a great superman story, I felt it hit all of the main points... I do fear that it was not the right way to go for an issue 1 though. 8 out of 10

Next up was Titans, and I was blown away...much like kid flash. I liked Tim as red robin, the fact that he is meeting "Dont call me wonder girl" confirms this is a new world... 7 out of 10

then came GL New guardians... it read too quick, and didn't really intro the group well. I have no better idea after issue 1 what is going on then I did before. The retcon to Kyles origan also left some  When was it and was it parralax/hal that blew the core up? 4 out of 10

Firestorm... good relaunch, like titans forget the old. I like the idea of multi firestorms, and fury looks odd, but has me intrigued. I wonder how smart Jason is, and if he and Ronnie can become friends... a good jump on and a good story, although overly gore (still looking for a book to share with my preteen nephew and his younger sister. 7 out of 10

Black hawks was a disapointment. I was expecting GI Joe Meets Shield with some batman thrown in... I got a weird story that I still don't get...but I will be sticking around for issue 2. 5 out of 10.

JL DARK... OK great story, and points for having 4 JL memebers in a book and not have them over shine the main cast or be treated like idiots...COnstintine and Zatana seam fine, and deadman still is hanging out with Dove. It was adult with out being over the top... 8 out of 10... it is the only book this week that might unseat storm watch as my fav #1


----------



## Knightfall (Sep 30, 2011)

Okay, so last week I picked up these... Batman, Blue Beetle, Catwoman, Green Lantern Corp, Legion of Super-Heroes, _[Nightwing]_, and Red Hood and the Outlaws.



GMforPowergamers said:


> this week I picked up GLC, which was a a good story, but I felt was a little too gorey for no reason (7 out of 10)



This is the only Green Lantern comic I've bought. I prefer Guy and john to the other 'human' lanterns. I loved the old JLA cartoon and I learned to dig Guy from Batman: The Brave and the Bold.

Hmm... in fact, it's probably the first GL comic I've ever bought.



> then came Red Hood and the Outlaws...I saw this as my outsider book. I went into it expecting none of what I got...but I liked most of what I read (even if I feel dirty thinking of starfire). I can say that every moment I felt like Jason todd and Roy harper were old drinking buddies... I want to rate it low for starfire, but I can't I even enjoyed her more this way then as the "ow wowe is me dick doesn't love me"  starfire.... and I keep thinking she is just messing with the two moreons... all in all (7 out of 10)



Before I bought it, I was forewarned about Starfire's 'behavior' by the owner of the comic store I now buy most of my 'geek' purchases. He wasn't thrilled about how they portrayed her. I understood his reasoning but at least it wasn't as graphic as Catwoman #1.

  

I don't think I'll be buying that one again. But I liked Red Hood.

Blue Beetle #1 was fun. Batman #1 was good. LoSH #1 taught me a lot in one comic. When it comes to the DC Universe, I know the iconic characters well and the rest, hardly at all.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 30, 2011)

Knightfall said:


> ...
> 
> Hmm... in fact, it's probably the first GL comic I've ever bought.
> 
> ...




Mine was one at the time when Hal Jordan was forbidden to visit earth... memories...

All in all I liked the New 52 this far. I don't like Wonder Woman's art and the storyline was... unimpressive.

I really like the new take on Aquaman and Teen Titans looks like it shapes up nicely (there was even a pic of Miss Martian and I am a Martian Manhunter + fan) and it is connected to Superboy.


----------



## Knightfall (Sep 30, 2011)

GMforPowergamers said:


> So this week was good.
> 
> I got Superman 1, and it was a great superman story, I felt it hit all of the main points... I do fear that it was not the right way to go for an issue 1 though. 8 out of 10



Whoa! I completely forgot about this one. Either that, or they were out. Regardless, it completely flaked out of my mind.

I picked up Batman: The Dark Knight #1, Blackhawks #1, Justice League Dark #1, and Teen Titans #1. (HHC still had copies of Batman and Robin #1, so I decided to get that one too.)

The Dark Knight title is good. However, I'm not sure having so many 'Batman' titles is such a good thing. I mean, we have Detective Comics, Batman and Robin, Batman, and Batman: The Dark Knight. That might be too much Batman every month, even for me.

I might have to pick just one. And it won't be Batman and Robin. His son is a little snot! (And, yes, I know who his mother and grandfather are.)



> Next up was Titans, and I was blown away...much like kid flash. I liked Tim as red robin, the fact that he is meeting "Dont call me wonder girl" confirms this is a new world... 7 out of 10



I have to agree. This is one of my favorites so far. Right up there with JLA #1. (I was a huge fan of of the Teen Titans cartoon.) This is going on my 'must read' list.



> Black hawks was a disapointment. I was expecting GI Joe Meets Shield with some batman thrown in... I got a weird story that I still don't get...but I will be sticking around for issue 2. 5 out of 10.



Different strokes for different folks. I loved it! I like the concept and will definitely be following this one through the first story arc, and maybe more.



> JL DARK... OK great story, and points for having 4 JL memebers in a book and not have them over shine the main cast or be treated like idiots...COnstintine and Zatana seam fine, and deadman still is hanging out with Dove. It was adult with out being over the top... 8 out of 10... it is the only book this week that might unseat storm watch as my fav #1



I was very interested in this one, but it didn't grab me as much as JLI or the Legion titles did.

Okay, so here is my list of #1's (so far)...

Aug. 31
Justice League 

Sept. 7
Action Comics 
Detective Comics  
Justice League International 
Men of War 
Stormwatch 

I still feel like I should have got Hawk and Dove #1.

Sept. 14
Batman and Robin 
Deathstroke 
Grifter 
Legion Lost 
Resurrection Man 
Suicide Squad 

I hope I won't need to follow the Superboy title to truly enjoy TT.

Sept. 21
Batman 
Blue Beetle 
Catwoman  
Green Lantern Corps 
Legion of Super-Heroes 
Nightwing (*) 
Red Hood and the Outlaws 

*Doh! I forgot to list Nightwing in my previous post. I liked it a lot. Hell, I liked it more than the four main Batman titles!

Sept. 28
Batman: The Dark Knight 
Blackhawks 
Justice League Dark 
Teen Titans 

Okay, Superman #1 will definitely be added to this list. I won't be getting The Flash #1 because it isn't Wally West. I thought about All-Star Western #1 but decided against it.

I'd like it if someone could explain The Fury of Firestorm to me.


----------



## Knightfall (Sep 30, 2011)

Others of the New 52 I might take a look at if they are still available next week...

Hawk and Dove, Swamp Thing; Red Lanterns; Birds of Prey; All-Star Western, Voodoo.


----------



## Walking Dad (Sep 30, 2011)

Voodoo looks like a villain comic to me, with no real connection to the 'original' character, besides look and name.


----------



## jeffh (Sep 30, 2011)

I've only read a few of them, but must say I was very pleasantly surprised by the Deadman story in DC Universe Presents. I didn't know much about the character and wasn't expecting a lot, but was very impressed with the maturity of the story and characterization, and the ending definitely left me wanting to know what happens next.


----------



## Klaus (Sep 30, 2011)

How tastes vary! I thought Teen Titans #1 was atrocious (but not as bad as Red Hood & The Outlaws).


----------



## Knightfall (Oct 2, 2011)

Klaus said:


> How tastes vary! I thought Teen Titans #1 was atrocious (but not as bad as Red Hood & The Outlaws).



To each their own. 

I went back for Superman #1 today and also picked up All-Star Western, Green Lantern, Green Lantern: New Guardians, and Red Lanterns.


----------



## Klaus (Oct 2, 2011)

My favorite books:

- Action Comics
- All-Star Western
- Batman
- Aquaman
- Wonder Woman
- Nightwing
- Green Lantern Corps
- Birds of Prey
- DC Comics Present


----------



## Knightfall (Oct 13, 2011)

*#2s*

*The Good*
Action Comics 
Detective Comics
Deathstroke
Grifter
Justice League International
Legion Lost 
Resurrection Man
Suicide Squad
Swamp Thing

*The Bad* (could not bring myself to buy)
Batman and Robin
Green Lantern
Men of War
Red Lanterns
Stormwatch

-> Having to wait until week three for Justice League. 

*The Ugly*
Space being taken up in several titles by the Batman Noel thing.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Oct 13, 2011)

For those who might be interested, Erik Mona is reviewing all of the new-52 in his personal blog.

New 52  Paperback Flash

His summaries of Week 1 and Week 2 aren't tagged with new-52, so you'd have to dig for them:

NEW 52 WEEK 1 SUMMARY  Paperback Flash

NEW 52 WEEK 2 SUMMARY  Paperback Flash


----------



## Villano (Oct 13, 2011)

Some DC news (old and new):

John Rozum quit Static Shock.

George Perez is leaving Superman after issue 6.

Ann Nocenti is taking over writing Green Arrow.

Gail Simone quit Firestorm.

Bat Editor Janelle Asselin quit DC for a job at Disney.

DC is reporting that is sold 5 million comics in the first 6 weeks of the reboot.


----------



## Agamon (Oct 13, 2011)

This is bad.  If this creates a sales bonanza, and it looks like it did, whenever sales are in a slump, time for another reboot! 

I, for one, didn't check out much stuff I normally wouldn't.  Green Lantern, plus Corps and New Guardians, because that was really the only DC stuff I was reading in the first place (no Red Lanterns though, it doesn't interest me, not sure how they can sustain a comic line with those guys).  JLA, to check it out.  JLI and Firestorm for nostaligia's sake, I used to like them as a kid.


----------



## Walking Dad (Oct 14, 2011)

I wasn't impressed with neither Static Shock nor Firestorm.

I hope the New 52 will prevail. I really dislike the current Marvel comics


----------



## Villano (Oct 15, 2011)

Captain Marvel returns to the DCnU.  He will be written by Geoff Johns and drawn by Gary Frank.  However, it's going to be a back-up feature in Justice League and will be called "The Curse of Shazam".

"Curse"?  God, I hope they don't plan on making it grim and gritty and full of death (considering the way DC's been treating him lately, I have a terrible feeling they will).


----------



## megamania (Oct 29, 2011)

I have been greatly disappointed by this reboot.   Some titles are a complete reboot, some are partial reboots and some (Green lantern) seem like there was no reboot at all.


----------



## megamania (Oct 29, 2011)

Villano said:


> Some DC news (old and new):
> 
> John Rozum quit Static Shock.
> 
> ...




This is not a good sign either......


----------



## megamania (Oct 29, 2011)

Villano said:


> Captain Marvel returns to the DCnU.  He will be written by Geoff Johns and drawn by Gary Frank.  However, it's going to be a back-up feature in Justice League and will be called "The Curse of Shazam".
> 
> "Curse"?  God, I hope they don't plan on making it grim and gritty and full of death (considering the way DC's been treating him lately, I have a terrible feeling they will).




I like Gary Frank's artwork but Shazam....  and not a regular book.....  I doubt I'll be shouting "Shazam!" anytime soon.


----------



## Walking Dad (Oct 29, 2011)

megamania said:


> I have been greatly disappointed by this reboot.   Some titles are a complete reboot, some are partial reboots and some (Green lantern) seem like there was no reboot at all.



This is one think I like. They didn't rebooted the things that already worked.


----------



## megamania (Oct 30, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> This is one think I like. They didn't rebooted the things that already worked.




except for Green lantern in GL has been and lost the title of being a Green Lantern where in JL he is just starting out.   There is no cohesion.


----------



## Walking Dad (Oct 30, 2011)

Current JLA, Action Comics (not sure about Detective Comics) are stories from the past.
The JLA isn't forming at the same time as Hal was de-powered. Have you read the comics you criticize?


----------



## Klaus (Oct 30, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Current JLA, Action Comics (not sure about Detective Comics) are stories from the past.
> The JLA isn't forming at the same time as Hal was de-powered. Have you read the comics you criticize?



The structure goes as this:

5.5 years ago: Action Comics (but will catch up eventually).
5 years ago: Justice League.
Current: Everything else.


----------



## megamania (Oct 30, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Current JLA, Action Comics (not sure about Detective Comics) are stories from the past.
> The JLA isn't forming at the same time as Hal was de-powered. Have you read the comics you criticize?




JL 1,2
Deathstroke 1
Batgirl 1
Green lantern 1

Then from there I just read threads and listen to folks talking about it.

I missed the fact JL was in the past.  My bad.


----------



## Walking Dad (Oct 30, 2011)

megamania said:


> JL 1,2
> Deathstroke 1
> Batgirl 1
> Green lantern 1
> ...



No problem. Sorry for sounding maybe to antagonizing with my question.

Does this change your opinion on the reboot? I personally miss some good serials and be a bit disappointed the JLA has Cyborg instead of the Martian Manhunter as a member. But I disliked the last JLA anyway and J'onn is at least in another team now (Stormwatch).

---

Another topic. Voodoo 2 has the Blackrazors coming after the title character. Were they part of the DC universe before the reboot? I think I remember them from Wildstorm.


----------



## Klaus (Oct 30, 2011)

No, this is the first time the Black Razors appeared in the DCU. And seem to count a re-colored Major Force among their number.

Also, it's not ruled out that the Martian Manhunter is a JL member. In Stormwatch #1 he says that some think of him as a hero, and when he has to be a hero he does it with the Justice League.


----------



## megamania (Oct 31, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> No problem. Sorry for sounding maybe to antagonizing with my question.
> 
> Does this change your opinion on the reboot? I personally miss some good serials and be a bit disappointed the JLA has Cyborg instead of the Martian Manhunter as a member. But I disliked the last JLA anyway and J'onn is at least in another team now (Stormwatch).
> .




Somewhat.   Admittedly I am more of a Marvel fan.  I really miss the Valiant comics (before being sold) even more.

I like when ALL of the titles work together which is what I thought DC was trying to do.


----------



## Knightfall (Oct 31, 2011)

I gave away a few of the titles I bought to a friend's nephew -- Animal Man (1 & 2), Batman: The Dark Knight, Batwoman (1 & 2), Catwoman, Green Lantern, Men of War, Red Lanterns, and Stormwatch.

I really liked Men of War but I decided on reading Blackhawks instead (still need #2). I made a similar choice between Batwoman and Batgirl. The Green Lantern #1 was interesting but I prefer the lanterns in Green Lantern Corps. Red Lanterns didn't hold my interest at all. New Guardians was more interesting although it is close to the bubble (still need #2).

I might give issue 2 of Batman and Robin a try. The villain in that comic is intriguing. (No spoilers on who it might be!)

Several titles are on the bubble... All-Star Western, Blue Beetle, Deathstroke, Detective Comics, Grifter, and Justice League Dark.

I really want to like Grifter, so I'll give it more time. The same goes for All-Star Western although issue #2 was a bit of a letdown. Deathstroke might be too bloody for me. It and Grifter might fall by the wayside simply because both Resurrection Man and Swamp Thing are too good not to follow.

I went back for Demon Knights and I am glad I did! After two issues, it has me hooked! The Legion titles are interesting, but I'm not sure how long I'm willing to follow them since I know so little about the LoSH.

So far, I've passed on Aquaman; Batwing; Birds of Prey; Captain Atom; DC Universe Presents; The Flash; Frankenstein, Agent of S.H.A.D.E; The Fury of Firestorm; Green Arrow; Hawk and Dove; I, Vampire; Mister Terrific, O.M.A.C.; The Savage Hawkman; Static Shock; Superboy; Supergirl; Voodoo; and Wonder Woman.

Batgirl has made me interested in Birds of Prey. Justice League has me thinking of trying out The Flash even though it isn't Wally West. Part of me feels I should give Wonder Woman a try, but I'm still not sure.

Anyway, just sharing my thoughts...

KF


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## Walking Dad (Oct 31, 2011)

I like Teen Titans, so Superboy will stay...

[MENTION=2012]Knightfall[/MENTION] Had you completely passed Aquaman, or did you read the first issue? It was one of my biggest (positive) surprises this far.

Question:
Wasn't in Stormwatch a fight between Apollo and Superman mentioned? Where is it?


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## Klaus (Oct 31, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> I like Teen Titans, so Superboy will stay...
> 
> [MENTION=2012]Knightfall[/MENTION] Had you completely passed Aquaman, or did you read the first issue? It was one of my biggest (positive) surprises this far.
> 
> ...



It's actually just a Photoshopping done by a fan, hinting that Apollo might be in Superman's league. The two never met.


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## Walking Dad (Oct 31, 2011)

Sorry... somehow misremembered this. Oops.

But I would still like to see it


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## Knightfall (Oct 31, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> [MENTION=2012]Knightfall[/MENTION] Had you completely passed Aquaman, or did you read the first issue? It was one of my biggest (positive) surprises this far.



I completely passed on it. Aquaman has never been that interesting to me.


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## Walking Dad (Oct 31, 2011)

As I said, I was very surprised. It has a wonderful ironic elements 'hey aren't you the dude with the organge shirt who talks to fish' and him ordering fish'n'ships in a seafood restaurant. And on the other side is the art very heroic and the storyline pretty dark.

Take a look if you got a chance.


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## Klaus (Oct 31, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Sorry... somehow misremembered this. Oops.
> 
> But I would still like to see it



I doubt it'll take long.


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## Kobold Avenger (Nov 2, 2011)

I, Vampire is a really good title, it's certainly not Twilight.  And the terms of a certain RPG Bennet can be thought of as something like Camarilla, and Mary can be thought of as something like Sabbat.

Wonder Woman under Brian Azzerello's writing has become a mythological horror title about the nasty things the Olympian Gods have been up to, including the infamous scene where Hera decapitates two horses to turn them into Centaurs.

Frankenstein, Agent of SHADE is literally the opposite of Animal Man written by the same writer.  It's more of an over the top action title.  One thing to note about previous DCU characters is that Ray Palmer is in that title as SHADE's scientific advisor, because the Atom that will be in Justice League is actually Ryan Choi.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 2, 2011)

They resurrected Ryan Choi??

Also a bit funny strange that Anmal Man is the horror and Frankenstein the action title


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## Villano (Nov 7, 2011)

Okay, some more news:

Another DC editor has quit (man, the reboot's been hard on them).  This time it's Rex Ogle.  

Also, DC has just cancelled the fifth TPB of their recent R.E.B.L.E.S. series (which really ticks me off because I was collecting them ).

On the "good news for DC" front, they beat Marvel again in October sales.  42.47% to Marvel's 29.1% of the market in dollars and 50.97% to Marvel's 30.29% in units sold.  

I haven't seen any sales numbers yet, but supposedly this was the best month in comic sales since 2009.  I've heard that even Marvel's numbers are up.  However, I'd still like to see the numbers just to know what sort of drop off there's been since the #1s and #2s (plus, how many of those sales were reprints of the previous months #1s).

In related news, Marvel has decided to follow DC's lead with a same day and date digital release of their comics.  They are going to release them gradually, with all titles (except licensed and MAX books) available by next March.


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## Nellisir (Nov 7, 2011)

Hrm.  I bought JLA #1 and wasn't interested enough to buy #2.  I bought Stormwatch #1-2 for nostalgia, but frankly, the merger of Wildstorm into DC doesn't do anything for me.  I didn't like the last few "phases" the Wildstorm U. went through, but still...I feel like they just threw it all out, the good and the bad.

Not a lot of room for Mister Majestic in a universe that already has Superman, Apollo, Wonder Woman, Martian Manhunter, and Captain Marvel.  It's crowded at the top end of the scale.

<sigh>


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## Walking Dad (Nov 7, 2011)

Different tastes. I love the Wildstorm bits this far. JLA could introduce the characters a bit faster IMHO, but I think Stormwatch is fine.

Where did you spot Mister Majestic?

BTW, the DCU is old enough to be crowded on any power tier. Alone the bat family, Wildcat, Mr Terrific, Green Arrow... crowd the Street Tier pretty much.

And Marvel isn't shy on heavy hitter either. But it's icons are Spiderman and Captain America, two lower power tier heroes.


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## Villano (Nov 7, 2011)

The digital plot thickens... a while ago, DC signed a deal to exclusively release some of their graphic novels through the Kindle Fire and now Marvel has announced they are doing the same with the new Barnes & Noble Nook tablet. 

That probably explains why Amazon just had a huge sale on a bunch of Marvel GNs.


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## Nellisir (Nov 8, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Where did you spot Mister Majestic?



I didn't.  Nor do I expect to anytime soon.  I agree that they have a lot of hitters at any level, which is why I don't expect to see him come back anytime soon.


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## Villano (Nov 9, 2011)

The actual sales numbers for October have been released.  The article also has a link to September's sales (and previous months) for comparison.

Interesting. Some books dropped a little, and a few even _gained_.

In August, before the reboot, Marvel sold 2,842,633 books and made $10,025,458.82.  Now, they sold 2,413,010 books and made $8,728,249.90.  

In the same period, DC sold 2,350,104 books for $7,906,367.96.  And now 4,256,253 books for $13,272,055.02.

DC has nearly doubled sales, and Marvel has taken a loss.


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## Dire Bare (Nov 9, 2011)

Villano said:


> The digital plot thickens... a while ago, DC signed a deal to exclusively release some of their graphic novels through the Kindle Fire and now Marvel has announced they are doing the same with the new Barnes & Noble Nook tablet.
> 
> That probably explains why Amazon just had a huge sale on a bunch of Marvel GNs.




Great.  So multi-house comic fans now gotta own a Kindle and a Nook.  I really don't like proprietary deals like this.


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## Walking Dad (Nov 9, 2011)

Better them going electronic than extinct...


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## Kobold Avenger (Nov 10, 2011)

Dire Bare said:


> Great.  So multi-house comic fans now gotta own a Kindle and a Nook.  I really don't like proprietary deals like this.



I'm still about getting dead trees at the moment, there's a comicshop near where I work so I simply just prefer printed comics already, and I don't feel the need to get a tablet unless it's a full-featured one.

Also those exclusivity deals have caused a few dealers to stop selling comics, even if the exclusivity deal was only for a limited time.


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## victory12 (Nov 11, 2011)

coyote6 said:


> 23, give or take. Most of which appear likely to be heavily affected by DC Heroes Reborn, and I am not sanguine about the changes being improvements. In fact, it seems likely that my favorite books won't exist (Simone's BoP & Secret Six, Power Girl, etc.).
> 
> When was the last time Jim Lee drew a monthly book, on time, for more than a handful of months? The Clinton administration?
> 
> ...



Part of the reason is because DC lost the rights to superman's origin  story to the point were Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Daily Planet, Krypton,  Supernman's Iconic S uniform, etc can no longer exist (but DC created  elements of the characters related to Superman can).

 The court's ruling goes into effect in a few months, so if the Flash  Point triggered universe write is a perminant lasting change its only so  that DC can properly own all of their origin stories/characters and   prevent an other family's estate from regaining control of a character  huge parts of a character's mythology. If not, then this is only part of  the DCU retcon process and things will be back in about 5 or 10 years  as per DCU's various "Crisises."
______________
virtual assistant


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## GMforPowergamers (Nov 11, 2011)

victory12 said:


> Part of the reason is because DC lost the rights to superman's origin  story to the point were Lois Lane, Clark Kent, Daily Planet, Krypton,  Supernman's Iconic S uniform, etc can no longer exist (but DC created  elements of the characters related to Superman can).





if that is the cause...it is a major fail... maybe the most fail every.


the 'new' action superman is way closer to the action 1 superman then any that has appeared in the last 30 years


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## GreyLord (Nov 11, 2011)

Did they really lose the ability to use the Superman back story...or was it a matter that they didn't want to actually pay anyone for the rights to use someone else's idea...so they still use the idea in a backhanded way while trying to weasel out of paying the rights for it?


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## Villano (Jan 12, 2012)

Just to update this old thread...



> Marvel Comics reclaimed the marketshare lead from DC Comics in December.
> 
> The publisher’s dollar share rose from 33.3% to 34.43% during the final month of 2011, while its rival’s declined from 34.69% to 33.74%.
> 
> ...




So, comic sales have improved in general, but DC is sliding back into 2nd place.

I also read somewhere that the sales of DC top tier titles are higher post-reboot, but the lower tier books are heading back to pre-reboot numbers.  That seems to be true because...



> In May of 2012, DC Comics will release a “Second Wave” of titles as part of its historic DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 initiative. Six new, ongoing series will build on the shared universe and bold concepts introduced in September 2011 with the renumbering of DC Comics’ entire line of comic books.
> 
> DC COMICS-THE NEW 52 “Second Wave” includes:
> 
> ...




So, the six lowest titles are gone and replaced with six new ones.  I admit that I'm a little saddened to see OMAC go.  I read the first 2 issues digitally and enjoyed them.  I do plan on finishing the run of it eventually.

Not sure how long any of the new titles will last.  Well, aside from Batman Incorporated, that is.  I might have been interested in Earth 2 and Worlds' Finest, but it looks like they intend to have the "Earth 2" characters simply end up in the mainstream DCnU.  If that's the case, I don't really see the need to have an Earth 2 at all.


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## Walking Dad (Jan 12, 2012)

This is very good news! I'm sad Blackhawks will go and all the Barman titles remain, but the remaining five titles were the ones I liked least.

BTW, the mystery woman from the first issues got a picture and a name: Pandora.


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## Agamon (Jan 12, 2012)

Walking Dad said:


> BTW, the mystery woman from the first issues got a picture and a name: Pandora.




There's a joke or two in there, but they aren't grandma-friendly.


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## Gentlegamer (Jan 14, 2012)

> EARTH 2 – Writer: James Robinson. Artist: Nicola Scott. The greatest heroes on a parallel Earth, the Justice Society combats threats that will set them on a collision course with other worlds.



This is what I've been waiting for!


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## Villano (Jan 28, 2012)

Newsarama has new more info about the upcoming Captain Marvel project "The Curse of Shazam".  It's written by Geoff Johns and will run as a 10 page back up feature in Justice League.

Billy is now older (and looks to me kind of like a young Clark Kent), plus he's getting a new, redesigned costume.  Also, the name "Captain Marvel" is dead...he's going to be called "Shazam" from now on.

No idea if he's still going to change by saying, "Shazam!" (not unless they want him to lose his power every time he introduces himself).  And Johns said that Freddie and Mary will be part of the book, so does that mean we'll have Shazam, Jr and, um, Mary Shazam?  

You know, every time I start having a slight interest in DC, they do something like this which reminds me why I hated the whole reboot idea to begin with.


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## Walking Dad (Jan 29, 2012)

Villano said:


> ...
> No idea if he's still going to change by saying, "Shazam!" (not unless they want him to lose his power every time he introduces himself).
> ...



Captain Marvel Junior had a similar problem, changing by saying "Captain Marvel". This was highlighted as he was unable to introduce himself at a Teen Titans recruitment.


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## Villano (Jan 29, 2012)

Walking Dad said:


> Captain Marvel Junior had a similar problem, changing by saying "Captain Marvel". This was highlighted as he was unable to introduce himself at a Teen Titans recruitment.




Cap villains IBAC and SABBAC had the same problems (in fact, tricking them into saying their names was how Cap usually ended up defeating them).  Junior at least had "Junior" to fall back on (not that being a superhero named "Junior" is all that great ).

Anyway, DC had a Captain Marvel knock-off called "Captain Thunder" (who appeared in a Superman comic in the '70s), and there was talk that they would get away from the "Marvel" problem by simply giving Cap the Thunder name (since they own that).  Personally, I wish they had.  

Of course, there are rumors that they are totally revamping the character and he's going to bear no resemblance to the original Cap, so...I really don't know what to think.


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## Walking Dad (Jan 29, 2012)

With the inclusion of the Wildstorm universe there is maybe no more room for the Fawcet crew... at least as we knew them. I personally liked the "Trials of Shazam!" maxi-series.


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## Klaus (Jan 30, 2012)

Villano said:


> Cap villains IBAC and SABBAC had the same problems (in fact, tricking them into saying their names was how Cap usually ended up defeating them).  Junior at least had "Junior" to fall back on (not that being a superhero named "Junior" is all that great ).
> 
> Anyway, DC had a Captain Marvel knock-off called "Captain Thunder" (who appeared in a Superman comic in the '70s), and there was talk that they would get away from the "Marvel" problem by simply giving Cap the Thunder name (since they own that).  Personally, I wish they had.
> 
> Of course, there are rumors that they are totally revamping the character and he's going to bear no resemblance to the original Cap, so...I really don't know what to think.



Actually, the original name for Cap was "Captain Thunder", but since that name was already copyrighted in the 40s, it was changed to "Captain Marvelous", which the editors shortened to "Captain Marvel".

As for Cap. Marvel Junior, he sidestepped the name impediment during the Teen Titans era by referring to himself as CM3. Which is all kinds of wrong.

I think the "saying the name" impediment will be done away, and that to change Billy will have to say the name "just right", not unlike Harry Potter casting a spell.


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## Kobold Avenger (Jan 31, 2012)

So it seems like Peter Milligan has left Justice League Dark so that he can take over Stormwatch as it's writer, while Jeff Lemire is replacing Milligan on Justice League Dark.  JLD will focus more on John Constantine.

The Milligan taking over Stormwatch is one that didn't surprise me at all, because I predicted it was likely to happen.  But I would have thought if Milligan left a title for Stormwatch it would have been Red Lanterns instead.


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