# overcoming Spell Resistance



## Dingleberry (Jan 5, 2010)

I'm playing a mid-level domain (evocation) wizard in an Eberron campaign and starting to repeatedly run into baddies with SR.  I get a +1 caster level on my domain spells, I can use Action Points on the caster level check, and I'm considering taking Spell Penetration at 9th and adding Spell Vulnerability (Sor/Wiz 3, Spell Compendium) to my spellbook ASAP.  Any other (or better) cheap/quick ways to improve my chances?


----------



## Runestar (Jan 5, 2010)

Arcane mastery (complete arcane?) lets you take 10 on caster lv checks. Assuming the foes you run into average cr+11 sr, you should automatically overcome their sr if used in tandem with spell penetration (or some means of increasing your caster lv).


----------



## FEADIN (Jan 5, 2010)

Assay spell resistance spell in the SC is also a good choice.


----------



## Ahnehnois (Jan 5, 2010)

Assay Resistance (SC) is a 4th level spell, swift action grants +10 to SR checks vs. 1 enemy for 1 round/level.

True Casting (CM) is a 1st level spell that grants +10 to your next SR check.

Reserve feats (mostly CM) grant +1 to caster level for a specific subgroup of spells, as do certain heritage feats (CM, PHBII, CArc).

Metamagic Vigor (CM) grants a caster level bonus if you use the same metamagic feat twice in a row.

Cooperateive Spell and Fortify Spell (CArc) also help greatly.


----------



## udalrich (Jan 5, 2010)

Runestar said:


> Arcane mastery (complete arcane?) lets you take 10 on caster lv checks. Assuming the foes you run into average cr+11 sr, you should automatically overcome their sr if used in tandem with spell penetration (or some means of increasing your caster lv).




  I thought that let you take 10, as if it was a skill check.  Which means you can't use it in battle.  This great decreases the value of the feat, unless I'm misremembering.


----------



## Ahnehnois (Jan 5, 2010)

> I thought that let you take 10, as if it was a skill check. Which means you can't use it in battle. This great decreases the value of the feat, unless I'm misremembering.



By the book, you're right, but that would be a pretty worthless feat. It was errata'd.

Complete Arcane Errata:
"Page 73: Arcane Mastery
You can use this feat even while under stress."

In any case, if you aren't beating SR on a 10 that feat wouldn't help anyway.


----------



## Thanee (Jan 5, 2010)

Use Conjuration spells. 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Dingleberry (Jan 6, 2010)

I can't believe I didn't see Assay Spell Resistance - that's excellent, and avoids the main drawback of Spell Vulnerability, namely, the save.

Thanee: that's *absolutely* also on the list.  My wizard's a bit of a force obsessive - how does Orb of Force stack up in practice against the other orb spells?


----------



## Alzrius (Jan 6, 2010)

Kenzer's Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands has the Envelope the Wall metamagic feat, which lets you cast a spell in a higher spell slot to gain +2 per spell level to overcome SR. (e.g. a _fireball_ cast as a 5th-level spell would gain a +4 to overcome spell resistance).


----------



## Runestar (Jan 6, 2010)

> Reserve feats (mostly CM) grant +1 to caster level for a specific subgroup of spells, as do certain heritage feats (CM, PHBII, CArc).




Also, reserve feats are SU abilities, IIRC, meaning they would ignore sr as well (though the damage typically won't amount to much once saves/resistance is factored in).


----------



## Mark1733 (Jan 6, 2010)

Dingleberry said:


> I can't believe I didn't see Assay Spell Resistance - that's excellent, and avoids the main drawback of Spell Vulnerability, namely, the save.
> 
> Thanee: that's *absolutely* also on the list.  My wizard's a bit of a force obsessive - how does Orb of Force stack up in practice against the other orb spells?




I think another issue on spell choices is that Assay Spell Resistance and True Casting affects the your spells only.  However, if you use Spell Vulnerability, and they fail the save, anyone's spells can affect the target and the duration is 1 minute per level.  Depending on how many and what other kinds of casters in your party can help with the baddies, this may be worth the chance on the save.


----------



## Mark1733 (Jan 6, 2010)

Dingleberry said:


> Thanee: that's *absolutely* also on the list.  My wizard's a bit of a force obsessive - how does Orb of Force stack up in practice against the other orb spells?




I don't mean to stray off the original topic, but have you considered Force Missiles?

Folks gave some mixed opinions on this forum.  I and recently used them in a large combat situation to decent effect...blinded creatures on the left began to huddle closely.  The force missile was nice because not only did I unerringly hit the target, but all adjacent foes got half the damage--all with no save.  If I rolled higher on the first roll, I could have sent the second missile over to another cluster of foes on the right.  Unfortunately, I rolled snake eyes on the first damage.  Although that terrible roll didn't kill the baddies, it softened them up for folks who followed me with the cleave feat.


----------



## Dingleberry (Jan 6, 2010)

Obistahr said:


> I don't mean to stray off the original topic, but have you considered Force Missiles?




That's a decent spell, but it's still subject to Spell Resistance.  As an evocation domain wizard, I already have plenty of ways to inflict damage, provided I can get past SR.  Orb of Force (and all the other orb spells) do that.


----------



## FEADIN (Jan 6, 2010)

Alzrius said:


> Kenzer's Player's Guide to the Sovereign Lands has the Envelope the Wall metamagic feat, which lets you cast a spell in a higher spell slot to gain +2 per spell level to overcome SR. (e.g. a _fireball_ cast as a 5th-level spell would gain a +4 to overcome spell resistance).





I think there's a WOTC feat that does the same but don't remember where I saw it...may be Fortify spell or something like that?


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 6, 2010)

FEADIN said:


> I think there's a WOTC feat that does the same but don't remember where I saw it...may be Fortify spell or something like that?




Yes, Fortify Spell.  Gain +2 iirc to CL for every level you heighten the spell.  I don't consider it worth the cost, though.

A wand of True casting is dirt cheap (on't even bother learning it, higher CL gives no benefit for it), and works in a pinch, though the fact you're usually spending two rounds on one spell kinda blows.  Assay Spell Resistance is nice, especially once 4th level spells are more plentiful for you (say like...level 12-14+).  Before that, it's hard to make much space for it versus other awesome level 4 spells.

Don't really have much to add, most of the options have already been mentioned.  Magic Item Compendium does have a cheap item to 3/day boost your CL on a level 1 spell, which is nice at lower levels.  I think they're called the Arcanist's Gloves.


----------



## Dingleberry (Jan 6, 2010)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> Assay Spell Resistance is nice, especially once 4th level spells are more plentiful for you (say like...level 12-14+).  Before that, it's hard to make much space for it versus other awesome level 4 spells.




Good point re: spell slots.  I should've added earlier that my wizard also have Alacritous Cogitation, so she can use an open slot to cast any spell in her spellbook spontaneously 1/day.  It's perfect for situations like needing to overcome an unexpected enemy's SR.


----------



## Thanee (Jan 7, 2010)

Dingleberry said:


> Thanee: that's *absolutely* also on the list.  My wizard's a bit of a force obsessive - how does Orb of Force stack up in practice against the other orb spells?




It's by far the best of them.

The only reason why it isn't utterly broken is, that it is single target.

Bye
Thanee


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 7, 2010)

Thanee said:


> It's by far the best of them.
> 
> The only reason why it isn't utterly broken is, that it is single target.
> 
> ...




And because it only caps at CL 10 for 10d6, which is kinda lame considering you get it at CL 7, and unless the foe is immune or highly resistant to all the other energy types, you're almost always better off using Acid or Lightning Orb?  It's near-guaranteed damage (still need to not roll a 1 to hit and beat SR, so hardly that, even), but not much damage, at least after CL 10.  It's like a higher level Magic Missile.  Some people think Magic Missile's broken, I guess...


----------



## Dingleberry (Jan 7, 2010)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> And because it only caps at CL 10 for 10d6, which is kinda lame considering you get it at CL 7, and unless the foe is immune or highly resistant to all the other energy types, you're almost always better off using Acid or Lightning Orb?  It's near-guaranteed damage (still need to not roll a 1 to hit and beat SR, so hardly that, even), but not much damage, at least after CL 10.  It's like a higher level Magic Missile.  Some people think Magic Missile's broken, I guess...




That's the trade-off: the force version still works against energy resistances/immunities, as well as incorporeals.

And you *don't* need to beat SR with any of the orb spells - that's why we're talking about them.


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 7, 2010)

Dingleberry said:


> That's the trade-off: the force version still works against energy resistances/immunities, as well as incorporeals.
> 
> And you *don't* need to beat SR with any of the orb spells - that's why we're talking about them.




Ah, right!  Ok, ok.  Orb of Force is freaking awesome levels 7-10, and might be worth it for a Wizard to learn.  For a sorcerer, you don't get it until level 8, probably not worth learning.  Especially if your DM allows Wings of Flurry.


----------



## Shin Okada (Jan 8, 2010)

Don't forget that Orb of Force is a medium-range spell while other Orb spells are short-ranged.

And, the spell is good for making some scrolls and wands. No save, no SR.


----------



## Dingleberry (Jan 8, 2010)

Shin Okada said:


> Don't forget that Orb of Force is a medium-range spell while other Orb spells are short-ranged.




Wow, I hadn't even noticed that - nice!


----------

