# Escape from Hurricane Katrina + Live Blog from N.O. Hell



## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

*EDIT: Just added blog link to a guy in the middle of the N.O. business district w/ live video feed running as long as his diesel feul lasts...pretty compelling reading

The Interdictor

What a hell-hole.  Note: Some of the language in the blog is non grandma-friendly.*

A business acquaintance of mine chose last week to visit N.O. with his girlfriend...here is his account of getting out of town...



			
				Old One's Friend said:
			
		

> Here’s a quick summary of my story . . . well, not so quick . . .
> 
> We arrived in New Orleans on Friday, after a 4 hour weather delay.  Our flight out of New Orleans was supposed to be Tuesday.  As the predictions for New Orleans began to look worse and worse, we called Delta on Saturday to re-schedule and got two of the few available seats out of town on a flight scheduled for 3pm on Sunday.  (The weather was still supposed to be okay at 3pm on Sunday, and it was.  The actual hurricane winds hit on Monday am).  This would have been a flight to Cincinnati.  We decided to try to accept that the last couple days of our vacation would be in Cincinnati.
> 
> ...





~ OO


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## MrFilthyIke (Sep 1, 2005)

Old One said:
			
		

> A business acquaintance of mine chose last week to visit N.O. with his girlfriend...here is his account of getting out of town...




Having worked for Delta, I understand how tough it is to rebook people, and how frustrated passengers are when the storm approaches... :\


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## BiggusGeekus (Sep 1, 2005)

Best $780 he spent in his life I'd imagine.


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## MrFilthyIke (Sep 1, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Best $780 he spent in his life I'd imagine.




You bet.


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## Darth K'Trava (Sep 1, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Best $780 he spent in his life I'd imagine.




I would agree considering the alternative.....


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## Numion (Sep 1, 2005)

Is 2$ / mile the normal rate there? If it's not, they were kinda profiting from a disaster. In some places the cab prices are regulated, and the driver cant charge more than the list price decided by the authorities. Not that I'd have refused to pay and walk out of town :\


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## Angel Tarragon (Sep 1, 2005)

Wow. Thats a heck of a story. At least it is a story they can tell future generations.


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## devilbat (Sep 1, 2005)

> Is 2$ / mile the normal rate there? If it's not, they were kinda profiting from a disaster.




I wonder if the looters refer to their actions as "profiting from disaster"?  Damn, I hope some of those people (meaning the looters) get what's coming to them.


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## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I wonder if the looters refer to their actions as "profiting from disaster"?  Damn, I hope some of those people (meaning the looters) get what's coming to them.




*Fails Will Save*

Agreed.  I think the N.O. (and State/Federal) authorities made a huge mistake by essentially ignoring the looters for the last 72 hours.  There is now an increasingly brazen criminal element that is armed and very dangerous roaming the city at will - robbing, car-jacking, starting fires and now firing on relief helicopters (which just suspended air evacuation of critically ill from the SuperDome).

I don't have a huge problem with people trying to get food, water and basic necessities, but the rampant looting going on right now should be crushed with an iron fist.  Under martial law, armed looters should taken down immediately, with shoot to kill orders if necessary.  If not, it will continue to spread and grow, with absolute chaos as a result.

Off the soapbox,

~ OO


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## reveal (Sep 1, 2005)

For some first-hand insight into the looting, check this out.

http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1174992&forum_id=26


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## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> For some first-hand insight into the looting, check this out.
> 
> http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1174992&forum_id=26




Lots of hyperbole flying around...but...*DAMN* !

This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.  What amazes me is the almost total news blackout on the severity of the problem...I guess the PC crowd is in full control.

~ OO


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 1, 2005)

Old One said:
			
		

> Lots of hyperbole flying around...but...*DAMN* !
> 
> This is going to get a lot worse before it gets better.  What amazes me is the almost total news blackout on the severity of the problem...I guess the PC crowd is in full control.
> 
> ~ OO



My little brother is a photo-hog (field video guy), from his contacts this is very ugly and will be hitting air soon, it is just hard to get the info out.


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 1, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> My little brother is a photo-hog (field video guy), from his contacts this is very ugly and will be hitting air soon, it is just hard to get the info out.



 Talk about a harrowing tale.  Good thing they got out.

Kane


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> For some first-hand insight into the looting, check this out.
> 
> http://forums.corvetteforum.com/showthread.php?t=1174992&forum_id=26



 Holy crap.  

I'm stunned.  I'm literally speachless.  

Kane


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## devilbat (Sep 1, 2005)

> http://forums.corvetteforum.com/sho...992&forum_id=26




Terrifying!


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 1, 2005)

I am watching news I taped a couple of days ago...it is...just bad to look at.  

The hard cold fact from all this...emergency services are frankly overwhelmed. And nothing short of a miracle, will change that.

Nature has shown us, how much of a limitation we do have...in things.



UPDATE All rescue operations are suspended, due to the increase dangers the lawless events growing increasingly...

*CNN News*


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## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

Added link to live blog from the heart of darkness in the first post...amazing.

~ OO


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 1, 2005)

Sure would be handy if we had some troops here in the States for this sorta thing, as opposed to being off somewhere else...

I'll stop there.


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## Darth K'Trava (Sep 1, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Sure would be handy if we had some troops here in the States for this sorta thing, as opposed to being off somewhere else...
> 
> I'll stop there.




From what I've heard, they've got the 82nd Airborne from Fort Bragg here in NC on standby to potentially head down there.


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 1, 2005)

There are a lot of NG from the KC and Marshall, MO areas headed down there right now.

Kane


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## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

I am becoming obsessed with what's going on down there...

I have hooked into a couple of other blogs/message boards (and we all know how those things can be).  There are (unconfirmed) reports coming in of snipers firing on Charity Hospital, the pilot of a ferry bringing NG troops in being shot and of looting in Baton Rouge.  There are also calls going out for private citizens to arm and defend their neighborhoods...

It's turning into friggin' Mogadishu in N.O....unbelievable.

~ OO


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 1, 2005)

This just confirms rule #1 when faced with apocalyptic situations: get the heck away from any cities.

The worst part is, if those morons shooting at the people that have come to HELP are making a tragic situation even worse.

Kane


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## Eridanis (Sep 1, 2005)

It sounds petty to say it in such horrendous circumstances, but please keep the political overtones out of discussions about this on ENworld, as usual. Normal rules still apply.


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## Joshua Randall (Sep 1, 2005)

I agree with OO -- armed looters should be given one warning to stand down, and if they do not, they should be shot and killed like the animals whose behavior they are imitating.

Now that my anger is gone -- I feel terrible about the victims of this disaster, and frustrated that other than donating my money and/or time, there is *nothing* I can do to help. Like when someone is dying and you know you can't save them.


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## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> Now that my anger is gone -- I feel terrible about the victims of this disaster, and frustrated that other than donating my money and/or time, there is *nothing* I can do to help. Like when someone is dying and you know you can't save them.




Right there with you.  We made a contribution to the Red Cross...but there really isn't anything else we can do from 1,000 miles away.  Very frustrating, although it is a shadow of what the folks in the area are going through.

~ OO


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## resistor (Sep 1, 2005)

The stories of the looters shocks me, but probably the most shocking thing to me and my girlfriend (who is from New Orleans, and whose family barely made it out) was this:

Congressman Hastert (IL, Rep) proposes not rebuilding New Orleans 

I mean, could he have said _anything_ more demoralizing for the people of the city?


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## Old One (Sep 1, 2005)

This is a local N.O. news station website update:

WWLTV

Check out the 4:15 PM update...people being raped and beaten at the SuperDome...great   .


EDIT:  Apparently, some genius public official decided to open a route to the West Bank of N.O.  Frantic calls for help are now coming from Gretna, Terrytown/Harvey and surrounding areas.  The Oakwood Mall is burning down and unconfirmed reports say at least one hospital (Meadowcrest) is under siege.

Apparently, some of these areas still had power and the MOB has invaded with a vengence.

~ OO


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## mac1504 (Sep 1, 2005)

Old One said:
			
		

> I don't have a huge problem with people trying to get food, water and basic necessities, but the rampant looting going on right now should be crushed with an iron fist.  Under martial law, armed looters should taken down immediately, with shoot to kill orders if necessary.  If not, it will continue to spread and grow, with absolute chaos as a result.
> 
> Off the soapbox,
> 
> ~ OO




When the first reports were coming in about police standing by while people looted pharmacies, grocery stores and the like, I thought they were excercising prudence by letting people secure necessities in a time of crisis. But I immediately thought to myself, "I hope they are going to at least secure gun shops and pawn stores against the looters."

I guess I was wrong.


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## BOZ (Sep 2, 2005)

resistor said:
			
		

> Congressman Hastert (IL, Rep) proposes not rebuilding New Orleans
> 
> I mean, could he have said _anything_ more demoralizing for the people of the city?




i wouldn't beleive stuff like that.  Chicago was rebuilt after the 1871 fire, and the tragedy gave way to opportunities that wound up improving the design and economy of the city.  i have to think that N.O. will work out in a similar (but not identical) fashion.


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## Del (Sep 2, 2005)

*refrains from political type comments*

The sniper fire has been reported by CNN. FYI street gangs in LA have been known to use snipers I think (aka Bloods and Crips). When the riots happened there in the 90's the gangs rolled right over when armed troops arrived. I hope this will happen again here.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Sep 2, 2005)

> I mean, could he have said anything more demoralizing for the people of the city?




I say rebuild - in Colorado.


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## BOZ (Sep 2, 2005)

Del said:
			
		

> *refrains from political type comments*
> 
> The sniper fire has been reported by CNN. FYI street gangs in LA have been known to use snipers I think (aka Bloods and Crips). When the riots happened there in the 90's the gangs rolled right over when armed troops arrived. I hope this will happen again here.




street gangs aren't particularly scared of cops (short of SWAT maybe), but they are not prepared to deal with the military.


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## Del (Sep 2, 2005)

BOZ said:
			
		

> street gangs aren't particularly scared of cops (short of SWAT maybe), but they are not prepared to deal with the military.




Indeed.

The latest reports (around 5 pm pst) say hundreds of military police, veterans from Iraq, are going to the city. Their verbalized message to the looters: "We know how to shoot."


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## Del (Sep 2, 2005)

Just in from CNN. Apparently the Astrodome is _turning people away_ due to being at capacity.

edit: off to a new home in San Antonio for them


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 2, 2005)

This has gone beyond any worst case scenario, than anyone can think of.

My god...and this, is just the beginning.


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## caudor (Sep 2, 2005)

It's all bad, but what really tears me up is all the little kids/babies/infants that are in dire need right now.  In a way, my mind refuses to comprehend what is happening, but it is happening anyway


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## Angel Tarragon (Sep 2, 2005)

resistor said:
			
		

> Congressman Hastert (IL, Rep) proposes not rebuilding New Orleans
> 
> I mean, could he have said _anything_ more demoralizing for the people of the city?



Crazy. And this is one of the reasons I hate politicians.


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## Ralts Bloodthorne (Sep 2, 2005)

Truth Seeker said:
			
		

> This has gone beyond any worst case scenario, than anyone can think of.



Naw, I can think of a LOT worse.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 2, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Crazy. And this is one of the reasons I hate politicians.



His timing was off but I don't know, from the toxic stew that it has become, there could be health issues for generations, chemicals and heavy metals, have made it a 'super site' nightmare, even if they get the water out, they have the muck that will coat everything. It is horrible to think we lost a city.


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## S'mon (Sep 2, 2005)

I expect the city of NO will eventually be reclaimed for prestige reasons, but I agree that may not be the smart thing to do.  Without the Mississippi floodwaters to replenish the delta soil it's sinking at 1m per century, I don't think it's viable in the long term.

In terms of deaths & destruction this disaster seems much bigger than 9/11, I don't think people are really taking in yet just how bad it is.  No casualty figures are being released (unlike in the Asian tsunami) but reading between the lines it has to be well into 5 figures for the whole area.  I'd be surprised if the final death toll is under 15,000.


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 2, 2005)

There are reports this morning that the explosions that happened early in the morning was a chemical plant.  It just got worse.

Kane


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 2, 2005)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> There are reports this morning that the explosions that happened early in the morning was a chemical plant.  It just got worse.
> 
> Kane




And fire trucks which could use water from the nearby Mississippi to fight the fire refused to respond for fear of being fired on by the cowardly filth now running rampant in the city.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 2, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> And fire trucks which could use water from the nearby Mississippi to fight the fire refused to respond for fear of being fired on by the cowardly filth now running rampant in the city.



At least the order has been given to, shoot to kill, which is sad enough but has to be done to take control and provide help.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 2, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> At least the order has been given to, shoot to kill, which is sad enough but has to be done to take control and provide help.




It's sad that it's become so necessary to do so, I agree.  It's also too long in coming.  Martial Law should've been declared as soon as the wind died down.  It's utterly naive to think this sort of thing would not happen.


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## spider_minion (Sep 2, 2005)

I've been on a news binge lately, and I'm simply amazed at how ineptly the government has handled this.  A program designed to improve the levees and pumps has had its budget all but eliminated for the last few years.  The news agencies and the Red Cross were able to get into New Orleans right after the hurricane, yet federal relief is noticeably absent.  Those programs are supposed to be designed for exactly this sort of thing too.  Some government officials have said that 'this has totally caught us by surprise' even though the hurricane threat to New Orleans has been a long-standing concern, and that everyone knew for at least 24-hours ahead of time that this worst-case scenario would come to pass.  The director of FEMA is even blaming the victims themselves (as if everyone had the means to evacuate).  And just to fuel the cynicism: September is National Preparedness Month.

While 9-11 brought out the best in people, Katrina has done just the opposite.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 2, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> It's sad that it's become so necessary to do so, I agree.  It's also too long in coming.  Martial Law should've been declared as soon as the wind died down.  It's utterly naive to think this sort of thing would not happen.



Agree, but this is one shock after another, one failure after another. I still can't believe that officials did not know hospitals had people in them!


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 2, 2005)

I am as appalled by the ineptness of the Feds as I am the deplorable looting and attacks on the people who ARE trying to help.  It was in the news from day one about the crowds and the hospitals.  And they try to say they didn't know?


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## Thornir Alekeg (Sep 2, 2005)

spider_minion said:
			
		

> I've been on a news binge lately, and I'm simply amazed at how ineptly the government has handled this.  A program designed to improve the levees and pumps has had its budget all but eliminated for the last few years.  The news agencies and the Red Cross were able to get into New Orleans right after the hurricane, yet federal relief is noticeably absent.  Those programs are supposed to be designed for exactly this sort of thing too.  Some government officials have said that 'this has totally caught us by surprise' even though the hurricane threat to New Orleans has been a long-standing concern, and that everyone knew for at least 24-hours ahead of time that this worst-case scenario would come to pass.  The director of FEMA is even blaming the victims themselves (as if everyone had the means to evacuate).  And just to fuel the cynicism: September is National Preparedness Month.
> 
> While 9-11 brought out the best in people, Katrina has done just the opposite.



I agree that the idea of being caught by surprise seems far-fetched, but I also know that many times the "scenarios" that are worked up for disasters do not properly take many factors into account.  I would venture a guess that their plans did not account for so much widespread devestation, the number of people who had not evacuated, that people would start shooting at rescuers.  This kind of planning is exactly like battle plans - the plans quickly become useless once the real situation is understood.  

And as horrible as this sounds, 9-11 was a great tragedy that was over pretty quickly and was on a much smaller scale.  Most of the people caught up in 9-11 either escaped early on, or were killed.  You didn't have the city full of people trapped without food and water.  Yes, they were rushing to try and find survivors trapped in the wreckage, but all the rescue efforts were concentrated in one small area, not over an entire city, and an even wider region.  

Last thing I believe is that I suspect there are a lot of good and heroic things happening along the Gulf Coast, but at the moment the media perfers reporting on the tragedy and negative events - they make for better ratings, and they are easier to locate.  The people doing heroic things are just out there continuing to work, not attracting media attention.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Sep 2, 2005)

spider_minion said:
			
		

> A program designed to improve the levees and pumps has had its budget all but eliminated for the last few years.




http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/n...gin&adxnnlx=1125669906-rsH40ZjR2538oOEDo2KwCw



			
				New York Times said:
			
		

> No one expected that weak spot to be on a canal that, if anything, had received more attention and shoring up than many other spots in the region. It did not have broad berms, but it did have strong concrete walls.
> 
> Shea Penland, director of the Pontchartrain Institute for Environmental Studies at the University of New Orleans, said that was particularly surprising because the break was "along a section that was just upgraded."
> 
> "It did not have an earthen levee," Dr. Penland said. "It had a vertical concrete wall several feel thick."


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## Thornir Alekeg (Sep 2, 2005)

Oh, and on the ineptitude of the Feds, I heard an interview on NPR yesterday with Michael Chertoff, Secretary of homeland Security, who is now responsible for FEMA.  The NPR anchor was asking him about the people trapped at the Convention Center without food and water.  Chertoff replied that they had no confirmation about this and that the media should not be reporting on rumors and stating them as facts.  The achor said they had a reporter on another line who was at the scene, that this was _not_ a rumor, but Chertoff kept putting it off as unconfirmed reports.  Apparently later a spokesperson from the DHS called to tell NPR that they had received confirmation of the conditions at the Convention Center and were working to get food and water to the area.

Obviously there are communications issues, but it also sounds like there is little to no organization on a larger scale.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 2, 2005)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> Oh, and on the ineptitude of the Feds, I heard an interview on NPR yesterday with Michael Chertoff, Secretary of homeland Security, who is now responsible for FEMA.  The NPR anchor was asking him about the people trapped at the Convention Center without food and water.  Chertoff replied that they had no confirmation about this and that the media should not be reporting on rumors and stating them as facts.  The achor said they had a reporter on another line who was at the scene, that this was _not_ a rumor, but Chertoff kept putting it off as unconfirmed reports.  Apparently later a spokesperson from the DHS called to tell NPR that they had received confirmation of the conditions at the Convention Center and were working to get food and water to the area.
> 
> Obviously there are communications issues, but it also sounds like there is little to no organization on a larger scale.




I heard that same interview, and I was screaming in frustration by the end of it.  Chertoff is a fool, and he should be held accountable for his idiocy.  It's like he was just spouting a sound bite he was programmed to say over and over, rather than admit to his department's failure.  All he was doing was an exercise in C.Y.A.


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## Belen (Sep 2, 2005)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> http://www.nytimes.com/2005/09/01/n...gin&adxnnlx=1125669906-rsH40ZjR2538oOEDo2KwCw




Exactly.  Add this to the fact the neither New Orleans or LA has ponied up the required matching funds for Federal dollars in years.  I sympathize here, but we cannot really play the blame game.  They were supposed to begin serious upgraded to the system in 1965.  If we want to blame people, then every administration and congress for the last 40 years can be blamed for not providing the cash.  And the levees that did fail were the areas that has already been upgraded...to withstand a Cat 3 (the city and state agreed that Cat 3 protection was the most cost effective.)

I heard this morning that NO cops were turning in their badges rather than fight the looters.  They feel as if they lost everything and do not see a reason to risk their lives too.

There is not much that can be done right now.  The infrastructure is gone and we have 90k square miles of destruction.  How can FEMA deal with that amount?  If they deploy more people to NO, then they have less people to help places in MS or AL.  They are in a lose-lose situation.

And I cannot imagine the nightmares these people will have for the rest of the lives on both sides of the disaster.


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## wingsandsword (Sep 2, 2005)

S'mon said:
			
		

> In terms of deaths & destruction this disaster seems much bigger than 9/11, I don't think people are really taking in yet just how bad it is.  No casualty figures are being released (unlike in the Asian tsunami) but reading between the lines it has to be well into 5 figures for the whole area.  I'd be surprised if the final death toll is under 15,000.



Yes, it appears to be much bigger than 9/11, it's probably the biggest disaster in the United States since the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 (definitely the first time we've had an entire major city virtually destroyed since then).  Even then, in terms of loss of life and property damage, it's almost certainly the biggest disaster in US history (several thousand died in the San Fransicsco earthquake, "only" several hundred in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, around 3,000 died on 9/11).  I think the reason they aren't saying how many died is, honestly, they don't want to scare people, and they're still even trying to figure out how many are dead, dying, and missing.  

The rebuilding will doubtless take years, the legacy will be with this country for generations.  

They'll doubtless rebuild New Orleans, maybe they'll build the levees higher, or more powerful pumping stations, or move much of the city further inland.  New Orleans is too much a part of our nation to just leave it completely in ruins.  The frightening thing is, that's all it is now, ruins.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 2, 2005)

Amid all the heartache and horror that is happening throughout the Gulf Coast, a woman at work today was actually bitching about how the price of coffee will go up now that the New Orleans seaport where so much of it is brought has been destroyed.  I wanted to slap her.  Hundreds of thousands of people in misery and she's worried about coffee. 

Sometimes I hate people.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Sep 2, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Amid all the heartache and horror that is happening throughout the Gulf Coast, a woman at work today was actually bitching about how the price of coffee will go up now that the New Orleans seaport where so much of it is brought has been destroyed.  I wanted to slap her.  Hundreds of thousands of people in misery and she's worried about coffee.
> 
> Sometimes I hate people.




On the fan site for the upcoming movie Serenity, someone actually was worried that the box office take would be hurt because nobody in the area would be going to the movies.   

I think these are just self-centered people who are feeling left out of the disaster and want to show how they are being hurt by it,too.  Maybe we can go and knock down these people's houses so they can get a better idea of what it is really like.


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## Belen (Sep 2, 2005)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> Yes, it appears to be much bigger than 9/11, it's probably the biggest disaster in the United States since the San Francisco Earthquake of 1906 (definitely the first time we've had an entire major city virtually destroyed since then).  Even then, in terms of loss of life and property damage, it's almost certainly the biggest disaster in US history (several thousand died in the San Fransicsco earthquake, "only" several hundred in the Great Chicago Fire of 1871, around 3,000 died on 9/11).  I think the reason they aren't saying how many died is, honestly, they don't want to scare people, and they're still even trying to figure out how many are dead, dying, and missing.
> 
> The rebuilding will doubtless take years, the legacy will be with this country for generations.
> 
> They'll doubtless rebuild New Orleans, maybe they'll build the levees higher, or more powerful pumping stations, or move much of the city further inland.  New Orleans is too much a part of our nation to just leave it completely in ruins.  The frightening thing is, that's all it is now, ruins.




There was a Hurricane that hit Galveston in the early 20th that killed 8000.  I hope that we are not looking at that type of figure now.


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 2, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Amid all the heartache and horror that is happening throughout the Gulf Coast, a woman at work today was actually bitching about how the price of coffee will go up now that the New Orleans seaport where so much of it is brought has been destroyed.  I wanted to slap her.  Hundreds of thousands of people in misery and she's worried about coffee.
> 
> Sometimes I hate people.




Not to add to your distaste...TV  & Movies shows filming down there, are affected as well. The self-center has been in effect, since this all started.

It is the old-case scenario, _oh...I am not the one being effected directly by this...but something I am used to...is_. This is a sign of people taken things for granted...literally.

What we have around us...is a privilege, and we should be thankful for the use of such things in our lives.

But not everyone thinks that way.


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## jester47 (Sep 2, 2005)

Well the big issue with the Department of Homeland Security and FEMA is if a hurricaine hits with 24 hours warning and the response is this bad, what happens when its a similar disaster enacted by terrorists with no warning?  So what exactly does Orange Alert mean now days?  It means something could happen and guess what?  We're not ready!  I bet Al-Quida will be taking notes...


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## S'mon (Sep 2, 2005)

Estimates for Galveston were 6-12,000 dead, but this looks worse to me, especially with so many still trapped in the city (and in some cases prevented from leaving by armed guards*).  A Biloxi official estimated 1,000 dead for Biloxi alone, I think you're looking at thousands just in MS & AL.


*http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,168270,00.html


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2005)

and the diseases haven't in started


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

-I just saw a report of the mayor of New Orleans screaming about the lack of aid and effort from federal sources.  He claimed that they were incompetent and stitting on their behinds (I cleaned up the language)
-What I want to know is, who was coordinating the town's emergency resources?  Towns, especially larger cities, are supposed to have emergency plans for things like this.  From what I understand, the floodwaters originate from Lake Ponchartrain (spelling?).  The dikes were built to stop the seasonal flooding from this lake.  It only seems like they should have had some sort of emergency plan for flooding already layed out. 
-I wonder whether this ex-cable television executive is just inexperienced due to it being his first term, or whether he's looking to shift the blame for an inadequate response.  From what I understand, it was not the federal government who sent people to an inadequately supplied Superdome and it was not the federal government directing them to busing stations with no buses.

"# CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you."

"# Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure.


----------



## S'mon (Sep 2, 2005)

I wouldn't give much for the Mayor or Governor's re-election prospects, yup.  That said I don't think the Federal response was brilliant, either.


----------



## RedWick (Sep 2, 2005)

Any word on how the rest of the relief effort in the South was going?  More than just NOLA was hit by the storm...


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

S'mon said:
			
		

> I wouldn't give much for the Mayor or Governor's re-election prospects, yup.  That said I don't think the Federal response was brilliant, either.




-I know its hard to be patient in this sort of scenario, but it's hard to get supplies and transportation in when you struggle to reopen an airport that's been damaged by a hurricane.  Now that its fully running again we should see a more rapid influx of relief.  That is, if the troops can quell the armed gunmen roving and looting downtown New Orleans.


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## RedWick (Sep 2, 2005)

was said:
			
		

> That is, if the troops can quell the armed gunmen roving and looting downtown New Orleans.




From the impression I've picked up, it was mostly drug addicts who are/were going through withdrawl and not as widespread as one would think.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 2, 2005)

RedWick said:
			
		

> Any word on how the rest of the relief effort in the South was going?  More than just NOLA was hit by the storm...



The company I work for has branches in all the states effected, from what I have been told it is slow and it concerns them that most every media eye is being focused on NOLA not any the other locations but when they see and hear what is going on in NO they are like us.  Other states seem to be responding better or at least the people are.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Sep 2, 2005)

RedWick said:
			
		

> Any word on how the rest of the relief effort in the South was going?  More than just NOLA was hit by the storm...




I've heard that things are not much better in some other areas, but they are smaller communities so they don't get the attention.  Heard a report from some small town in Mississippi that has been devastated.  They say they have no way out, have not seen any relief efforts and he was predicting that if someone doesn't show up soon, they'll be in similar bad situations as N.O. when people start running out of food and water and start trying to take what they need from those who still have stocked supplies.


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## Rel (Sep 2, 2005)

RedWick said:
			
		

> Any word on how the rest of the relief effort in the South was going?  More than just NOLA was hit by the storm...




From what I've seen on TV, the coastal areas of Mississippi and part of Alabama are devastated but they are not struggling with the dense population and massive logistical nightmare of New Orleans.  Having been through two hurricanes here in NC (ones that were nowhere near this bad however), the typical pattern is to stage personel and materials at the edges of the effected area and begin moving in, clearing roads and bringing aid to those who have damaged homes or flooding problems.  But New Orleans is a unique situation because it is so completely surrounded by water.


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

RedWick said:
			
		

> From the impression I've picked up, it was mostly drug addicts who are/were going through withdrawl and not as widespread as one would think.




-Unfortunately, it's much more than that.  Some people down there have viewed the disaster as a free for all.  I saw footage of looters stealing televisions, stereos, expensive clothes and sneakers.  I understand desparate people looting the grocery stores for food, but the rest is unacceptable.  CNN broadcast phone interviews with people still down there, reporting rampant armed thefts of gasoline and carjacking.  Half the police department was stuck at the station  the previous night after having to repel attackers trying to reach their weapons locker.  
-While hospitals and medical personnel have also been attacked for medical supplies, it NOT just a bunch of drug addicts suffering from withdrawal.  That's just the mayor's attempt to skirt the issue.  Interviews with the governor and police officers down there paint a very different picture.

"# CNN's Chris Lawrence: From here and from talking to the police officers, they're losing control of the city. We're now standing on the roof of one of the police stations. The police officers came by and told us in very, very strong terms it wasn't safe to be out on the street"

" The troops chased gun-toting gangs from the local convention center to deliver the first largescale relief supplies to up to 20,000 survivors huddling in fear and filth."  AFP


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 2, 2005)

I have spent quite some time crying over the past couple days.  I have never felt so deeply sorrowful and sickened by a disaster.  Everything just seems so horrible, I can hardly wrap my brain around it... and it just continues to get worse.

Last night before I went to bed, I read a report on CNN about gangs of men raping women.

Police officers are simply not doing their duty.

Dead bodies are just being dragged into the corners of any shelter that is housing survivors.

Yesterday at school, I was having lunch with a girlfriend that didn't realize that there *was* a hurricane.  I wanted to SLAP her.

My initial sadness was almost entirely centered around the fact that a city so historic, so beautiful could just be eliminate so quickly, so irrevocably.  Now, my sadness deepens as it seems that this disaster has brought out the worst in so many people.




			
				CNN.com said:
			
		

> http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/02/katrina.impact/index.html
> 
> Earlier, police officers told CNN that some of their fellow officers had simply stopped showing up for duty, cutting manpower by 20 percent or more in some precincts.
> 
> Before Thursday night fell, police were stopping anyone they saw on the street and warning them that they were not safe from armed bands of young men who were attacking people and attempting to rape women.


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I have spent quite some time crying over the past couple days.  I have never felt so deeply sorrowful and sickened by a disaster.  Everything just seems so horrible, I can hardly wrap my brain around it... and it just continues to get worse.
> 
> Last night before I went to bed, I read a report on CNN about gangs of men raping women.
> 
> ...




Apparently, robbery and rape was happening on a large scale at the Superdome as well.  You'd think that they'd at least have a police presence there.  That is where the mayor and the city told people to go.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Sep 2, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Yesterday at school, I was having lunch with a girlfriend that didn't realize that there *was* a hurricane.  I wanted to SLAP her.




You hold her.  I'll slap her.  How can people be so....unaware of the world they live in?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 2, 2005)

was said:
			
		

> Apparently, robbery and rape was happening on a large scale at the Superdome as well.  You'd think that they'd at least have a police presence there.  That is where the mayor and the city told people to go.



 *shakes head*  I'd think that things like that wouldn't happen amidst wide-spread disaster.  But - I'm probably just naive.  Still boggles my mind, though.


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

Here's a good link on how the flooding happened.
http://www.cnn.com/2005/WEATHER/09/01/orleans.levees/index.html


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 2, 2005)

Remember, though, Queen D, that this is also bringing out the best in a lot more people.  Millions of dollors raised within hours for many charities.  The Red Cross is getting a lot of volunteers willing to go help in the recovery effort.  Not to mention the people that are taking complete strangers into their homes.  The media is going to report on the terrible things a heckuva lot more than any of the good since that's what more people will tune into to see.  It may be bad in NO right now, but there is a lot of good people that are doing amazing things to help those that have suffered throughout the aftermath.  Focus on that.  

Kane


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 2, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> You hold her.  I'll slap her.  How can people be so....unaware of the world they live in?



 I don't know!! And she's the southern coast of NC!  

She's just so wrapped up in her own life, her own friends, and her own personal drama that she cannot believe a world exists outside of American University.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 2, 2005)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> It may be bad in NO right now, but there is a lot of good people that are doing amazing things to help those that have suffered throughout the aftermath.  Focus on that.
> 
> Kane




True.  Very true, Kane.  Maybe I should just stop visiting news sites.  They can be *so* depressing.


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2005)

was said:
			
		

> Apparently, robbery and rape was happening on a large scale at the Superdome as well.  You'd think that they'd at least have a police presence there.  That is where the mayor and the city told people to go.




I imagine there are police there, but with thousands of people and a the superdome is really big, they can't be everywhere.  THe police and everyone there are going through a lot, so I imagine they are doing the best they can.


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I imagine there are police there, but with thousands of people and a the superdome is really big, they can't be everywhere.  THe police and everyone there are going through a lot, so I imagine they are doing the best they can.




 "# CNN Producer Kim Segal: It was chaos. There was nobody there, nobody in charge. And there was nobody giving even water. The children, you should see them, they're all just in tears. There are sick people. We saw... people who are dying in front of you."

"# Evacuee Raymond Cooper: Sir, you've got about 3,000 people here in this -- in the Convention Center right now. They're hungry. Don't have any food. We were told two-and-a-half days ago to make our way to the Superdome or the Convention Center by our mayor. And which when we got here, was no one to tell us what to do, no one to direct us, no authority figure.

""Why is no one in charge?" asked one frustrated evacuee at the Ernest Morial Convention Center, where thousands have waited days for help. "I find it hard to believe.""

There was also an interview with an african-american woman on television stating that she was at the Superdome and witnessed the robberies and rapes and the lack of police. She stated that much of it was happening in and around the restrooms and that people were so scared they started to urinate and defecate in public. 

-I apologize in advance if anyone is upset over the last part of this post, but I felt that this information needed to be relayed.  This material was gathered from watching CNN on the television and from reading their website.


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## jgbrowning (Sep 2, 2005)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> They'll doubtless rebuild New Orleans, maybe they'll build the levees higher, or more powerful pumping stations, or move much of the city further inland.  New Orleans is too much a part of our nation to just leave it completely in ruins.  The frightening thing is, that's all it is now, ruins.




To be honest, I don't know if they're going to rebuild. Unlike every other major national disaster (san fran, chicago) etc.. people now a days are *mobile* and can simply find a new home, a new job and move on.

Who's going to rebuild their house when there's no jobs? Who's going to rebuild a business when there are no people? It may be a self-fullfilling cycle. Not to mention that, *at any minute* another storm could come and wreck it all again. Even with massive protection, the city will still be sinking every year at, if I'm remembering properly, around 1/3 inch per year.

This may be the one chance to chose to not have the same thing happen twice and I imagine that those who go through this will give that long, hard thought before commiting themselves to a completly new endeavor (city building from scratch). I think many people will simply run their risk/reward assessment and realize that New Orleans isn't the place for them anymore.

joe b.


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## Rel (Sep 2, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> True.  Very true, Kane.  Maybe I should just stop visiting news sites.  They can be *so* depressing.




I know what you mean, Queen D.  I crave information but every time I sit down to watch the news I get so depressed that I feel rotten.  I'm trying to just focus on what I can do to make the situation better.  It isn't much but this weekend I'm going to package up some clothes to take to donation sites and I'm going to have Samantha get together some toys to donate to the kids who have lost everything.


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I'm trying to just focus on what I can do to make the situation better.  It isn't much but this weekend I'm going to package up some clothes to take to donation sites and I'm going to have Samantha get together some toys to donate to the kids who have lost everything.




thats the way to do it.  i made a donation to the red cross, just do what you can.  it does help


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## BiggusGeekus (Sep 2, 2005)

jgbrowning said:
			
		

> Who's going to rebuild their house when there's no jobs? Who's going to rebuild a business when there are no people? It may be a self-fullfilling cycle. Not to mention that, *at any minute* another storm could come and wreck it all again. Even with massive protection, the city will still be sinking every year at, if I'm remembering properly, around 1/3 inch per year.




At this point talking about rebuilding in some ways is like talking about picking out new furniture when the firemen are still putting out your house fire.  But what the heck.

It's going to be rebuilt.  There's way too much natural gas and oil in the area for anything else to happen.  It'll have lost some of the charm of course because you can't build on that scale without building bland.  But it's going to be rebuilt.  It'll probably return to it's old "crescent city" status that it had before the levees and whatnot were constructed.  

A few solutions have been tossed out.  One is to give tax credits or exemptions to companies that start up or relocate to NO, you could scale the size of the credit/exemption based on the number of jobs created.  It'd turn NO into a tax shelter, not unlike Delaware (where New York City "lives" as a corporation!)  

But it's more likely that the Big Easy is going to turn into a version of 1970s Pittsburg.  But who knows?  Maybe it'll come back as a tourist attraction.  Goulish glass-bottomed boats and whatnot.  One never can tell.


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## BiggusGeekus (Sep 2, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> this weekend I'm going to package up some clothes to take to donation sites and I'm going to have Samantha get together some toys to donate to the kids who have lost everything.




I'm not trying to be a jerk, but hold off on that for a week or two.  Supply lines need to be open for food, water, and medicine.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 2, 2005)

Here's something positive:  

http://www.cnn.com/2005/US/09/02/katrina.impact/index.html


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## jgbrowning (Sep 2, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> At this point talking about rebuilding in some ways is like talking about picking out new furniture when the firemen are still putting out your house fire.  But what the heck.
> 
> It's going to be rebuilt.




I really don't know. We'll have to wait and see what springs up where N.O. used to be.

joe b.


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2005)

It was only a mtter of time, but glad to see it starting


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## jgbrowning (Sep 2, 2005)

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> I'm not trying to be a jerk, but hold off on that for a week or two.  Supply lines need to be open for food, water, and medicine.




You're not being a jerk. Right now people need food, water, and medicine more than anything else. It's far better to donate money than supplies as that money can turn into what's needed, when it's needed, and where it's needed. Donated supplies actually reduce the value of the donation as they require infrastruction, time, and manpower to manipulate.

And in case I sound harsh, it's far better to donate something than nothing.

joe b.


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2005)

jgbrowning said:
			
		

> I really don't know. We'll have to wait and see what springs up where N.O. used to be.
> 
> joe b.




it'll be rebuilt.  That's what people do, they rebuild.  it won't be the same and some areas might be leveled and not rebuilt but in some form New Orleans will be back.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 2, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> it'll be rebuilt.  That's what people do, they rebuild.  it won't be the same and some areas might be leveled and not rebuilt but in some form New Orleans will be back.



 That's what I'm hoping for.  New Orleans has such a rich and beautiful history that the thought of *not* rebuilding makes me feel sick.  Though, I've never had my home destroyed...


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## Crothian (Sep 2, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> That's what I'm hoping for.  New Orleans has such a rich and beautiful history that the thought of *not* rebuilding makes me feel sick.  Though, I've never had my home destroyed...




well, from news reports I've heard the historic distracts of the city proved to be the least effected.  That's something at least.


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## was (Sep 2, 2005)

-You know, watching all the footage and reading all the articles about New Orleans really instills a sense of despair. As was pointed out earlier, however, you also see some of the best in people.  Sri Lanka, who was devastated by the tsunami, is just one of many countries offering the U.S. aid.  Additionally, despite past differences, Secretary General of the U.N., Kofi Annan, has called upon the body for support, stating that the U.S. has always helped others.


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## billd91 (Sep 2, 2005)

It's a pretty mindbogglingly difficult situation, to be sure. But don't get too hard on all of the cops and all of the looters. 

The cops are badly overstrained. According to the mayor of NO in an interview this morning, it was only last night that the whole force was put on civil control rather than rescuing people. That's a pretty nasty Sophie-esque choice. Do you rescue people in desperate need because of the flood, or do you try to assert public order (which is, in a way, another version of saving people but from a different problem)?

And with the looters, there have been plenty of reports of people looting for necessities as well as the more opportunistic ones just stealing stuff. Some of the people brandishing guns at the security forces have been demanding that they go and rescue _their_ families. Some people are doing it out of desperation, absolute desperation and they aren't thinking straight.

There's also a lot of conflicting reports about how widespread the looting and rioting is. NBC was a bit dismissive of it because their news people have been able to get around the city without any personnel difficulties. They've been reporting that some of the evacuation and supply vehicles had been holding back out of fear of being attacked by looters, perhaps in overreaction. So I'm not really sure about the magnitude of that problem in general. Chances are it's a set of highly localized issue or randomly roving and thus not pervasive.

What I worry about most is all of the small children. Babies dehydrate like crazy because they have fast metabolisms and they sweat a lot (especially in NO weather). Maybe it's because I'm a father myself (kids are 7 and 1) but this sort of thing affects me a LOT. Hell, my heart still goes out the families of the kids taken hostage (and many killed) in Beslan a year ago. There are just too many bad things in this world, both man-caused and natural, that make me want board up the house and not let the kids out of my sight. But I know that odds are on their side and they'll probably do just fine... I just wish the kids of NO were as lucky. I hope most of them turn out to be so.


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 3, 2005)

Nearly a third of the NOPD left their posts.  Some turned to stealing SUV's and looting while other realized that they had become targets and hid.  IMO, the complete lack of civil duty on part of many of the police officers was the first step in this situation going from bad to worse.  

As for NO getting rebuilt, it will.  The French Quarter is ingrained in Americana.  It will be restored to it's former glory.  It's likely that many housing projects and other neighborhoods won't be rebuilt if for nothing else that survivors not wanting to live there anymore.  I could see a lot of the displaced settling in the towns where they have been taken in by family and even total strangers.  Make no doubt that NO will come back.

Kane


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## jgbrowning (Sep 3, 2005)

Kanegrundar said:
			
		

> As for NO getting rebuilt, it will.  The French Quarter is ingrained in Americana.  It will be restored to it's former glory.  It's likely that many housing projects and other neighborhoods won't be rebuilt if for nothing else that survivors not wanting to live there anymore.  I could see a lot of the displaced settling in the towns where they have been taken in by family and even total strangers.  Make no doubt that NO will come back.
> 
> Kane





How much explosives would it take to break open one of those concrete wall levees? I wonder what it would be like if it happened when the city was full of people?

I think that's one more reason not to rebuild a city that's probably oh, 5 pounds away from a massive crisis that would make the current one look piddly.

joe b.


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## Barendd Nobeard (Sep 3, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I know what you mean, Queen D.  I crave information but every time I sit down to watch the news I get so depressed that I feel rotten.  I'm trying to just focus on what I can do to make the situation better.  It isn't much but this weekend I'm going to package up some clothes to take to donation sites and I'm going to have Samantha get together some toys to donate to the kids who have lost everything.



 Don't watch the news about it.

A Dr. Raison (from Emery U., I think) was on the news recently.  He mentioned a study found that the long-term negative reactions were worse for people who watched the 9/11 events on television than those people who were actually at the scene.

I watch a little bit about Katrina's aftermath, and then switch channels.  I want to be informed, but I also find it too depressing to watch for very long.


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## Bryon_Soulweaver (Sep 3, 2005)

Sorry, didnt read through the posts but I would like to post a like to something.

http://www.filecabi.net/host/file/hurricane-katrina-police-loot/wmv


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 3, 2005)

Bryon_Soulweaver said:
			
		

> Sorry, didnt read through the posts but I would like to post a like to something.
> 
> http://www.filecabi.net/host/file/hurricane-katrina-police-loot/wmv




It is okay...just more examples of when the civil system gives way to chaos.


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## Bryon_Soulweaver (Sep 3, 2005)

True, its the impulses of human nature to revert to chaos every once in a while. But then in this kind of situation its not chaos, its the will to survive.


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## caudor (Sep 3, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Yesterday at school, I was having lunch with a girlfriend that didn't realize that there *was* a hurricane.  I wanted to SLAP her.
> 
> My initial sadness was almost entirely centered around the fact that a city so historic, so beautiful could just be eliminate so quickly, so irrevocably.  Now, my sadness deepens as it seems that this disaster has brought out the worst in so many people.




Try not to be so hard on folks that avoid the news.  Since I'm still on medication for depression, I purposely avoid focusing on or dwelling on tragic news.  That's not to say I ignore what others are going through---I just can't handle a constant dose of it right now.

I've sent in a donation, but I turn the channel sooner rather than later.  Just reading this thread is not really easy.


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## Kanegrundar (Sep 3, 2005)

jgbrowning said:
			
		

> How much explosives would it take to break open one of those concrete wall levees? I wonder what it would be like if it happened when the city was full of people?
> 
> I think that's one more reason not to rebuild a city that's probably oh, 5 pounds away from a massive crisis that would make the current one look piddly.
> 
> joe b.



 We'll rebuild because it's not in America's nature to give up, even when we probably should.  NO is such a big part of the American experience that it's unthinkable of not rebuilding.  

Kane


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 3, 2005)

jgbrowning said:
			
		

> How much explosives would it take to break open one of those concrete wall levees? I wonder what it would be like if it happened when the city was full of people?
> 
> I think that's one more reason not to rebuild a city that's probably oh, 5 pounds away from a massive crisis that would make the current one look piddly.
> 
> joe b.



I would be more concerned with the oil pipe line, its impact is greater.  

I do think the city will be rebuilt but they will now follow the plan introduced.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Sep 4, 2005)

caudor said:
			
		

> Try not to be so hard on folks that avoid the news.  Since I'm still on medication for depression, I purposely avoid focusing on or dwelling on tragic news.  That's not to say I ignore what others are going through---I just can't handle a constant dose of it right now.





I understand completely.  I'm bipolar myself.  

Not being hard on anyone for avoiding the news, though.  She's a girl I know really well and - while I would appreciate it if she avoided the news for a purpose, she is simply too wrapped up in herself to even realize that the hurricane happened.  She had no knowledge that Hurricane Katrina existed... and hence, I wanted to slap her.

Read this article this morning and it gave me a little bit of a boost.  Was a nice pick-up to see that most of the historical sites in NO are not in horrible shape.


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## MaxKaladin (Sep 7, 2005)

The historical sites are ok because the original New Orleans was built above sea level.  It's been later expansion that moved below sea level.  When the city is rebuilt, any area below sea level should be turned into parks or something and subsequent development below sea level should be banned.


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## Rel (Sep 8, 2005)

MaxKaladin said:
			
		

> When the city is rebuilt, any area below sea level should be turned into parks or something and subsequent development below sea level should be banned.




Well it appears that approximately 80% of the city has been built on "flood prone" areas.  If they're going to avoid building on them at all in the future, that's going to present some significant challenges to traditional urban design.


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## Darth K'Trava (Sep 8, 2005)

resistor said:
			
		

> The stories of the looters shocks me, but probably the most shocking thing to me and my girlfriend (who is from New Orleans, and whose family barely made it out) was this:
> 
> Congressman Hastert (IL, Rep) proposes not rebuilding New Orleans
> 
> I mean, could he have said _anything_ more demoralizing for the people of the city?




Hearing stories about the Saints football team permanently leaving the city after the knowledge that their stadium is totally ruined from both the storm and the people tearing it up....

I told a friend that the game Sun will be _very_ interesting.... The season opener between the Saints and the Panthers.... It's gonna be emotional, I'll bet on that.


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## Del (Sep 8, 2005)

Escape from New Orleans.

We need Snake Plisken.


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## Del (Sep 8, 2005)

Okay Macy Grey is performing on Larry King. Chalk one up to now having seen it all.


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## MaxKaladin (Sep 8, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> Well it appears that approximately 80% of the city has been built on "flood prone" areas.  If they're going to avoid building on them at all in the future, that's going to present some significant challenges to traditional urban design.



It occured to me that they might want to turn flooded streets into a design feature and have parts of New Orleans be like Venice.  They could do the whole romantic gondola ride bit and everything.


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## Rel (Sep 9, 2005)

MaxKaladin said:
			
		

> It occured to me that they might want to turn flooded streets into a design feature and have parts of New Orleans be like Venice.  They could do the whole romantic gondola ride bit and everything.




That might be neat for the whole tourist industry.  I just wonder if it would hold too many bad memories for the folks who live there.


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## MaxKaladin (Sep 9, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> That might be neat for the whole tourist industry.  I just wonder if it would hold too many bad memories for the folks who live there.



Yeah, that did occur to me.  I'm sure it would be bad for some people.  I suppose it would depend on the person and how it was done.  I suspect many of the people it would most affect may not be going back.  I live in San Antonio (where we got 25,000 evacuees) and the sentiment I keep hearing on the local news is that a lot of evacuees don't feel they have any reason to return and intend to start over elsewhere.  

I suppose, knowing they intend to rebuild the city, I keep trying to think of ways they can do so that don't depend entirely on holding lakes, rivers and oceans back from a bowl that's below sea level.


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## wingsandsword (Sep 9, 2005)

MaxKaladin said:
			
		

> I suppose, knowing they intend to rebuild the city, I keep trying to think of ways they can do so that don't depend entirely on holding lakes, rivers and oceans back from a bowl that's below sea level.



The oldest parts of the city, like the French Quarter, that were least damaged, were built the highest, the levees and below-sea-level parts of the city were newer developments.  Perhaps rebuilding in other areas, which are above sea level, may be more sound.

And yes, I've also thought of the "American Venice" concept for New Orleans.  My idea was to sink huge concrete pylons into the water as anchors, and build a city of arcologies and skyscrapers supported over the water, connected by skywalks and bridges, with the roads and interstates exiting to large complexes at the edge of the city where you can park and take mass transit elevated monorails, aquatic gondolas, or the skywalks and just walk around the city.

Since as much as 80% of New Orleans will have to be rebuilt, this is the US's first chance in modern history to really design a new city from scratch. (Washington DC was a planned city, but it was designed 200 years ago).


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## MaxKaladin (Sep 9, 2005)

wingsandsword said:
			
		

> The oldest parts of the city, like the French Quarter, that were least damaged, were built the highest, the levees and below-sea-level parts of the city were newer developments.  Perhaps rebuilding in other areas, which are above sea level, may be more sound.



That's what I'd prefer.  Just buy the low parts that flooded, which are the new parts as you say, and rebuild people's homes elsewhere.  Don't rely on the levys to hold or this will just happen again unless you really over-engineer the flood controls, which they won't for cost reasons.  



			
				wingsandsword said:
			
		

> And yes, I've also thought of the "American Venice" concept for New Orleans.  My idea was to sink huge concrete pylons into the water as anchors, and build a city of arcologies and skyscrapers supported over the water, connected by skywalks and bridges, with the roads and interstates exiting to large complexes at the edge of the city where you can park and take mass transit elevated monorails, aquatic gondolas, or the skywalks and just walk around the city.
> 
> Since as much as 80% of New Orleans will have to be rebuilt, this is the US's first chance in modern history to really design a new city from scratch. (Washington DC was a planned city, but it was designed 200 years ago).



It sounds good to me.  I wish they'd do it but I'm afraid they won't be so visionary (whoever "they" turns out to be).  

Oh, here's an idea:  If they don't go with flooded streets, build the arcologies with parking garages at the lowest levels.  These will flood if another flood happens, but the cars should be gone because of evacuations.  People's homes won't get flooded that way, just empty parking garages...


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## Bryon_Soulweaver (Sep 10, 2005)

http://hurricanekatrinasucked.com/index.html

Some things that happened and some things that lead to what people say.


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