# Spell Creation Advice



## Micco (Oct 30, 2005)

I didn't want to pollute the EoM:Revised Spell list up with my struggles, so I thought I'd ask my question(s) here instead.

I'm having trouble duplicating the Lesser Globe of Invulnerability from the core rules. Most of it seems pretty straight forward, but I'm not sure how to get the "you can cast out of it, but nothing can cast into it" effect. I had assumed it was an area effect Anti-magic, but the core-rules version allows the caster to cast out while blocking incoming spells below 4th level. I don't expect it to be that absolute (and that's a good thing!), but I did want it to allow the caster to be unaffected by it.

 I wondered if the Discerning enhancement would allow only the caster to exclude certain people within the area at the time of casting from the effect, but make all other magic subject to it?

Any thoughts on how to duplicate those Globes (or something close?)


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## Verequus (Oct 30, 2005)

It would have been nice, if you had posted your try, so others can see possible errors with it. BTW, the core variant blocks spells of level 3 and below, not 4 and below. Anyway, you are correct in your assessment, that there is no option to exclude oneself from the effects of own spells while you are in their area of effect. In EoM-ME the discerning enhancement allows to exclude squares instead affecting only a certain amount of people. But while this prevents the affecting of allies, those allies are bound to their current squares for the spell's duration.

Using the empty squares, consider a hollow sphere or any other closed hollow figure. The problem is, if one can cast through anti-magic fields without being affected by the presence of the anti-magic field, although the casted spell itself wouldn't even affect the anti-magicked area. If one rules yes, then you can't exclude your own space, without making yourself vulnerable again. If one rules no, then the only spells which aren't hampered are the ones, who affect only you. Not bad (and my preferred ruling, although I would allow to circumvent the anti-magic area through changed aiming, as long you know (or guess) exactly, where no anti-magic is, and if the parameter of the spell allow the alternative path), but not the effect you are wishing for.

If you don't want to go into house-rule territory, then the only possibility is to be a so high-enough-level caster, that you can cast an anti-magic field, which SR you can always beat, but your enemies still have difficulties. I think, that it would be balanced to say, that discerning allows only the caster (and no-one else with maybe the exception of a familiar?) to be unaffected by the spell. The discerning effect increases with the spell level, as the potential benefit of being unaffected does.


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## Micco (Nov 5, 2005)

Good point on taking a shot at it RuleMaster. I'll try to create the version I had in mind:


*Weave Bubble*
Dispel Magic 5/Gen 3
*Total MP:* 8
*Area of Effect:* 10-ft radius, centered on caster
*Duration:* 1 minute

You make using magic within the area of effect very difficult for everyone but up to 8 creatures  within the area at the time of casting. The area has a Spell Resistance of 10 + 5 + number of ranks in Dispel Magic. 

Creatures not specifically exempted from the bubble must make a caster level check to cast a spell or use a spell like ability or have that magic countered. Whenever a spell or effect enters the area, or its effect passes through the antimagic area, it controller makes a caster level check against the SR (magic items and permanent spells take 10).

Creatures who can see the Weave will notice that the area is a bubble that contains few tendrils of mana. Those tendrils present are either very tenuous or are connected to the creatures who are exempted from the effects. _Costs: 5 MP antimagic, 1 MP discerning, 2 MP area._

I take it from your comments in the previous post that Discerning can only choose who a spell effects, not choose who a spell does not effect. If that is the case, the spell would have to be changed so that it only effected up to 8 creatures at the time of casting and serve as a block to casting for them for the duration (using sticky discern). It would have the effect of forcing affected creatures to beat the SR to cast for the duration. That is assuming you can use the sticky enhancement for Dispel. 

The problem with either of these two approaches is that they both seem very powerful. Even the example in the book of Ursus casting antimagic on Barbara seems to be very powerful. Wouldn't this cause all mages to start any combat off by slinging antimagic areas around immediately? I guess the only way to balance this is to make is non-discernable. Someone is free to create an anti-magic zone, they just have to beat the DC like everyone else.


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## Micco (Nov 5, 2005)

Any thoughts on the spell below? Intent is to create a distracting 'fake' invisible caster to give the caster time to escape or get off a 2 round spell. Basically like the Mislead core rules spell.  I've included the potential effects available if the caster is an Illusion Specialist. I am struggling with the area effect and spacial distortion parts of this. How do I make the caster seem to run away and keep the illusion up when the enemies pursue the illusion as they'll quickly leave the AoE? Mislead allows the illusion to move outside of the original range, but EoM rules require either a greater range or the Illusion Space...but do on the people in the target area continue to see the illusion?


*Slip Away*
Illusion Shadow 3/Space 3/Gen 1
*Total MP:* 7
*Range:* 10' (10,000' apparent with Space distortion)
*Duration:* One minute

This working causes the caster to suddenly disappear and creates a very faint illusory distortion of the caster in the same exact spot that moves away to any spot within 10,000 feet. 

If the caster is an Illusion Specialist, the spell gains standard effects for all known Illusion spell lists to make the 'fake' invisible caster appear more real and make it more difficult to notice the real invisible caster. If the appropriate spell list is known, the real caster will be covered with standard illusions for smell (Acid), tactile (Metal), sound (Void), aura (Death). The fake invisible caster will have standard illusions to add very subtle visual (light), smell (Ice), sound (Sound), tactile (Crystal), and appropriate reactions (Life), ability to move objects- e.g. "accidently" kick small pebbles, etc (Nature), damage with attacks at 40%(Force).

To observers, the caster will appear to go invisible. Observers will then notice very subtle clues that the caster is running to the new location (or away).  Meanwhile, the real caster can be preparing a spell in relative safety....or escaping in a different direction. Although only the visual and spatial elements created by this illusion are complex, their sheer overwhelming power is enough to keep most from seeing through the illusion. _Costs: 3 MP complex visual illusion, 3 MP complex spacial illusion, 1 MP area, several Free standard illusion elements (per caster)_

This is really intended to get the caster out of trouble when in near combat with someone. So will the creatures effected realize that the illusionary caster is not real when they leave the area of effect? Could they be made to believe that they just lost track of the invisible creature, or will they automatically know that it was an illusion? What if the sticky dicerning enhancement is applied..will that change how they see the fleeing illusion?

Sorry for all the questions, but illusions are tricky and I'm trying to make sure I get a good balance with core rules illusion spells. Minor Image is a good second level spell that gives a 400' range to the image, regardless of whether the targets go chasing after it or not. Do I need to spend 40 MP to get the same effect!?!


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## Verequus (Nov 6, 2005)

Micco said:
			
		

> Good point on taking a shot at it RuleMaster. I'll try to create the version I had in mind:
> 
> ...
> 
> I take it from your comments in the previous post that Discerning can only choose who a spell effects, not choose who a spell does not effect.




That is correct.



			
				Micco said:
			
		

> If that is the case, the spell would have to be changed so that it only effected up to 8 creatures at the time of casting and serve as a block to casting for them for the duration (using sticky discern). It would have the effect of forcing affected creatures to beat the SR to cast for the duration. That is assuming you can use the sticky enhancement for Dispel.




Also correct.



			
				Micco said:
			
		

> The problem with either of these two approaches is that they both seem very powerful. Even the example in the book of Ursus casting antimagic on Barbara seems to be very powerful. Wouldn't this cause all mages to start any combat off by slinging antimagic areas around immediately? I guess the only way to balance this is to make is non-discernable. Someone is free to create an anti-magic zone, they just have to beat the DC like everyone else.




No, you are missing, that someone hulled in anti-magic doesn't get only his spells blocked, but also attacking spells have to beat the SR. Basically you use anti-magic to remove the availability of magic for certain persons. Mainly spellcasters, which get then beaten up with a stick by your friends, but you won't use an anti-magic spell capable of impeding both you and the opponent, unless you've got a good-enough-weapon for yourself.

As the rules are based on the 50%-chance for opponents with the same caster level, so another mean alternative use is to target low-magic opponents (compared to yourself). You remove the magicness of weapons and armor, if you are level 10 or higher, or you remove the spellcasting ability of weaker mages (with a gap of ca. 20 levels between you and your opponent.)


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## Verequus (Nov 6, 2005)

Micco said:
			
		

> Any thoughts on the spell below? Intent is to create a distracting 'fake' invisible caster to give the caster time to escape or get off a 2 round spell. Basically like the Mislead core rules spell.




I'll have to think about that a bit.


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## Verequus (Nov 7, 2005)

I've got it now.



			
				Micco said:
			
		

> Any thoughts on the spell below? Intent is to create a distracting 'fake' invisible caster to give the caster time to escape or get off a 2 round spell. Basically like the Mislead core rules spell.  I've included the potential effects available if the caster is an Illusion Specialist. I am struggling with the area effect and spacial distortion parts of this. How do I make the caster seem to run away and keep the illusion up when the enemies pursue the illusion as they'll quickly leave the AoE? Mislead allows the illusion to move outside of the original range, but EoM rules require either a greater range or the Illusion Space...but do on the people in the target area continue to see the illusion?




You've taken the wrong approach for this spell.



			
				Micco said:
			
		

> *Slip Away*
> Illusion Shadow 3/Space 3/Gen 1
> *Total MP:* 7
> *Range:* 10' (10,000' apparent with Space distortion)
> ...





You don't need to include effects for specialists, unless your spell depends on them.



			
				Micco said:
			
		

> To observers, the caster will appear to go invisible. Observers will then notice very subtle clues that the caster is running to the new location (or away).  Meanwhile, the real caster can be preparing a spell in relative safety....or escaping in a different direction. *Although only the visual and spatial elements created by this illusion are complex, their sheer overwhelming power is enough to keep most from seeing through the illusion.* _Costs: 3 MP complex visual illusion, 3 MP complex spacial illusion, 1 MP area, several Free standard illusion elements (per caster)_




The bolded sequence is not applicable here - a DC of 13 isn't that tough.



			
				Micco said:
			
		

> This is really intended to get the caster out of trouble when in near combat with someone. So will the creatures effected realize that the illusionary caster is not real when they leave the area of effect? Could they be made to believe that they just lost track of the invisible creature, or will they automatically know that it was an illusion? What if the sticky dicerning enhancement is applied..will that change how they see the fleeing illusion?
> 
> Sorry for all the questions, but illusions are tricky and I'm trying to make sure I get a good balance with core rules illusion spells. Minor Image is a good second level spell that gives a 400' range to the image, regardless of whether the targets go chasing after it or not. Do I need to spend 40 MP to get the same effect!?!




The solution is far more simple. Basically you need to cast two spells at once - as the target area is the same, this can be accomplished by using two discerning enhancements.


*Slip Away*
Illusion Life 3/Illusion Light 3/Illusion Shadow 3/Move Force 1/Gen 2
*Total MP:* 12
*Range:* Touch
*Duration:* One minute

This spell does not only make you invisible, but creates an illusionary double, which runs away for the duration (with no range limitation) because seemingly a spell has malfunctioned. The double behaves as if you would be in the same situation. While those, who notice your own sound and smell or that your double doesn't make any sounds and lacks tactile experience, may think, that this is the result of the botched spell, can look through the disguise with a successful save.

_Costs: 6 MP complex visual illusion, 3 MP complex reactive illusion, 1 MP effective Strength, 2 MP discerning_

Any other questions?


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