# where does the line 'today is a good day to die' originate?



## johnsemlak (Apr 6, 2005)

I know that line is quoted in many films, and I assume books.  Anyone know where it originated?


----------



## devilish (Apr 6, 2005)

Kiefer Sutherland in "Flatliners."  Opening line, I think.


----------



## mojo1701 (Apr 6, 2005)

I thought it was from Star Trek, what the Klingons believed.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Apr 6, 2005)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> I know that line is quoted in many films, and I assume books.  Anyone know where it originated?




It's a Lakota Sioux expression (hoka-hay). It's most famously associated with the Battle of Little Bighorn and General George Custer.


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 6, 2005)

Its origins are lost in Klingon history.  

Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 6, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Its origins are lost in Klingon history.
> 
> Heghlu'meH QaQ jajvam




Q'PLA!!!


----------



## Hammerhead (Apr 7, 2005)

Crazy Horse, Battle of Little Bighorn IIRC. Was NOT invented by Star Trek.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 7, 2005)

Yes it was. As was Shakespeare.

Sheesh! Get your facts right!


----------



## NTZ (Apr 7, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> It's a Lakota Sioux expression (hoka-hay). It's most famously associated with the Battle of Little Bighorn and General George Custer.




This sounds correct since I remember it being said in the movie "Little Big Man" by an old indian.  He travels up a hill and lays down to die, but when it starts to rain he gets up and changes his mind.

NTZ


----------



## mojo1701 (Apr 7, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Yes it was. As was Shakespeare.
> 
> Sheesh! Get your facts right!




You have not experienced Shakespeare until you've heard it in the original Klingon. "_taH pagh, taH be?_"


----------



## The_lurkeR (Apr 7, 2005)

It is correct, I went with my girlfriend to a lecture given by Wilma Mankiller* who wrote the book "_Every day is a good day_", and she talked about the origins of the title and how it related to the famous war cry. Basically it's part of a philosophy of courage and optimism, and how life isn't worth living if you're being too cautious or pessimistic.


* (Famous Native American activist, author, and former first female chief of the Cherokee nation)


----------



## johnsemlak (Apr 7, 2005)

Interesting.  I've always been a fan of the Klingon culture (as presented in TNG) but I hadn't drawn any connections between Native American cultures and the Klingons.  I had more associated the Klingon Warrior culture with Homeric Greece.  Makes a bit more sense now though.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Apr 7, 2005)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> Interesting.  I've always been a fan of the Klingon culture (as presented in TNG) but I hadn't drawn any connections between Native American cultures and the Klingons.  I had more associated the Klingon Warrior culture with Homeric Greece.  Makes a bit more sense now though.



The quote can from American Indian culture and Gene always said ST was a western in space.


----------



## shilsen (Apr 7, 2005)

The important question is who coined the SMART version of the war-cry, i.e. "Today is a good day for somebody else to die!"


----------



## diaglo (Apr 7, 2005)

shilsen said:
			
		

> The important question is who coined the SMART version of the war-cry, i.e. "Today is a good day...





to run."


----------



## Greylock (Apr 7, 2005)

If you Google the phrase, you'll see that almost every tribe of Plains Indian is credited with originating the phrase, although the Sioux come up most often. Klingons trail a distant second. And the third most common occurance of the phrase is in relation to the legendary heavy-metal band, Manowar.  :\


----------



## Hand of Evil (Apr 7, 2005)

I still perfer: 
_"Eat, Drink, and be Merry for tomorrow you die."_
and 
_"No, Mister Bond, I expect you to die!"_


----------



## diaglo (Apr 7, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I still perfer:
> _"Eat, Drink, and be Merry for tomorrow you die."_
> and
> _"No, Mister Bond, I expect you to die!"_





don't forget Harry's speech about St Crispin's Day.


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 7, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> And the third most common occurance of the phrase is in relation to the legendary heavy-metal band, Manowar.  :\




Hail the Army of the Immortals!!!!!!


----------



## Hand of Evil (Apr 7, 2005)

diaglo said:
			
		

> don't forget Harry's speech about St Crispin's Day.





This day is called the feast of Crispian:
He that outlives this day, and comes safe home,
Will stand a tip-toe when the day is named,
And rouse him at the name of Crispian.
He that shall live this day, and see old age,
Will yearly on the vigil feast his neighbours,
And say 'To-morrow is Saint Crispian:'
Then will he strip his sleeve and show his scars.
And say 'These wounds I had on Crispin's day.'
Old men forget: yet all shall be forgot,
But he'll remember with advantages
What feats he did that day: then shall our names.
Familiar in his mouth as household words
Harry the king, Bedford and Exeter,
Warwick and Talbot, Salisbury and Gloucester,
Be in their flowing cups freshly remember'd.
This story shall the good man teach his son;
And Crispin Crispian shall ne'er go by,
From this day to the ending of the world,
But we in it shall be remember'd;
We few, we happy few, we band of brothers;
For he to-day that sheds his blood with me
Shall be my brother; be he ne'er so vile,
This day shall gentle his condition:
And gentlemen in England now a-bed
Shall think themselves accursed they were not here,
And hold their manhoods cheap whiles any speaks
That fought with us upon Saint Crispin's day.​
Hail, the king


----------



## Henry (Apr 7, 2005)

Actually, my favorite version of the Quote is from Captain Worf in Star Trek: First Contact. Worf, just informed that his shields are down, his weapons are shot, and he's losing air, says:

_"Perhaps today IS a good day to die! Prepare for RAMMING SPEED!"_ 

The sheer venom and defiance of that jewels-to-the-wall order, just before the Enterprise shows up, gets me laughing every time I think about it.


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Apr 7, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> Actually, my favorite version of the Quote is from Captain Worf in Star Trek: First Contact. Worf, just informed that his shields are down, his weapons are shot, and he's losing air, says:
> 
> _"Perhaps today IS a good day to die! Prepare for RAMMING SPEED!"_
> 
> The sheer venom and defiance of that jewels-to-the-wall order, just before the Enterprise shows up, gets me laughing every time I think about it.




Hijacking the thread just for a moment, my favorite part of that movie is Picard's "line in the sand" speech.  I swear, had there been a Starfleet recruiter nearby, I'd have signed up right then!


----------



## Arbiter of Wyrms (Apr 7, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Hail, the king



Hail the queen!  As cool as Shakepeare's fiction is, my favorite rally-the-troops speech was given by Queen Elizabeth when she was expecting the Spanish Armada to overrun England:Speech to the Troops at Tillbury​
	My loving people:  We have been persuaded by some that are careful of  our safety, to take heed how we commit ourselves to armed multitudes, for fear of treachery.  But I assure you I do not desire to live to distrust my faithful and loving people.  Let tyrants fear!  I have always so behaved myself that, under God, I have placed my chief strength and safeguard in the loyal hearts and goodwill of my subjects; and therefore I am come amongst you, as you see, at this time, not for my recreation and disport, but being resolved, in the midst of the heat of battle, to live or die amongst you all; to lay down for my God, and for my kingdom, and for my people, my honor and my blood, even in the dust.  I know I have the body but of a weak and feeble woman; but I have the heart and stomach of a king, and of a king of England too,  and think foul scorn that Parma  or Spain, or any prince of Europe, should dare to invade the borders of my realm; to which rather than dishonor should grow by my, I myself will take up arms, I myself will be your general, judge, and rewarder of every one of your virtues in the field.  I know already, for your forwardness you have deserved rewards and crowns;  and we do assure you on the word of a prince, they shall be duly paid you.  In the meantime, my lieutenant-general  shall be in my stead, than whom never prince commanded a more noble or worthy subject; not doubting but by your obedience to my general, by your concord in the camp, and your valor in the field, we shall shortly have a famous victory over those enemies of my God, of my kingdoms, and of my people.

-from The Norton Anthology of English Literature, seventh edition.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 8, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> Actually, my favorite version of the Quote is from Captain Worf in Star Trek: First Contact. Worf, just informed that his shields are down, his weapons are shot, and he's losing air, says:
> 
> _"Perhaps today IS a good day to die! Prepare for RAMMING SPEED!"_
> 
> The sheer venom and defiance of that jewels-to-the-wall order, just before the Enterprise shows up, gets me laughing every time I think about it.





That was awesome! Worf at his best.  

This is the scene where he should've had that line: "ASSIMILATE _THIS_!!!!" like they had on the tshirt as opposed to when they did have it.


----------



## Romulan_Knight (Apr 8, 2005)

Prepare to decloak and prepare for ramming speed.
"TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE......FOR YOU"


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 8, 2005)

shilsen said:
			
		

> The important question is who coined the SMART version of the war-cry, i.e. "Today is a good day for somebody else to die!"



I believe the first time I read it was in a Prattchet novel - maybe one about Cohon?


----------



## shilsen (Apr 8, 2005)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> I believe the first time I read it was in a Prattchet novel - maybe one about Cohon?



 Bingo! "Interesting Times", IIRC.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 8, 2005)

Romulan_Knight said:
			
		

> Prepare to decloak and prepare for ramming speed.
> "TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE......FOR YOU"





Romulans.... what a bunch of pointy eared cowards! 

They wouldn't know a straight up fight if one erupted in the middle of them!


----------



## TheAuldGrump (Apr 9, 2005)

Star Trek - A Future of Misattribution.

Today is a good day to die, and Vengeance is a dish best served cold are _not_ original to Klingons. (And for that matter did Kahn ever _meet_ a Klingon?)

Though Spock claiming Sherlock Holmes (or possibly Arthur Conan Doyle) as an ancestor was amusing...

The Auld Grump


----------



## ledded (Apr 9, 2005)

I've seen this phrase attributed to several Native American sources, however most often I've seen it associated with the Lakotas/Soiux. And for them, the full version I've read of the phase is:

Today is a good day to die; only the sun and moon last forever.

Note: There was a third line to this warriors saying that I cant recall for the life of me right now, sorry.


----------



## Romulan_Knight (Apr 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Romulans.... what a bunch of pointy eared cowards!
> 
> They wouldn't know a straight up fight if one erupted in the middle of them!




Tell that to me when i declock behind you and fire a plasma torpedo into your warp drive.
we romulans are not yellow belles we are smart to not carge right into a battle unlike those dumb as a brick klingons who think "TODAY IS A GOOD DAY TO DIE".


----------



## Frostmarrow (Apr 9, 2005)

I like:

"Wake up! Time to die!"

_Leon, Bladerunner_


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 9, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> Star Trek - A Future of Misattribution.
> 
> Today is a good day to die, and Vengeance is a dish best served cold are _not_ original to Klingons. (And for that matter did Kahn ever _meet_ a Klingon?)



Oh, thou of little faith!


----------



## Greylock (Apr 9, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> (And for that matter did Kahn ever _meet_ a Klingon?)




Which Kahn? Madeline?

*rimshot* 

Wow. Got to use the same bad joke twice in one week.


----------



## Vigilance (Apr 9, 2005)

shilsen said:
			
		

> The important question is who coined the SMART version of the war-cry, i.e. "Today is a good day for somebody else to die!"




Well Patton famously said "The point of war is not to die for your country, its to make some other bastard die for his."

Which is sort of the same idea. 

Chuck


----------



## rbingham2000 (Apr 9, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> Today is a good day to die, and Vengeance is a dish best served cold are _not_ original to Klingons. (And for that matter did Kahn ever _meet_ a Klingon?)



Indeed. The "Good Day to Die" maxim has lots of different origins from all over the world. My major recollection of it was that it was a major maxim among the Samurai of Feudal Japan.

And "Revenge is a dish best served cold" was a Sicilian proverb, if I recall correctly.


----------



## ssampier (Apr 10, 2005)

[hijack]
I always liked, "their's not to reason why, their's but to do or die." It's a poem called, "Charge of the Light Brigade" by Lord Tennyson Alfred.
[/hijack]


----------



## Zander (Apr 25, 2005)

Today is a good day to _diet_.

The slimmer's mantra.  

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=128859


----------



## Gentlegamer (Apr 25, 2005)

The_lurkeR said:
			
		

> It is correct, I went with my girlfriend to a lecture given by Wilma Mankiller* who wrote the book "_Every day is a good day_", and she talked about the origins of the title and how it related to the famous war cry. Basically it's part of a philosophy of courage and optimism, and how life isn't worth living if you're being too cautious or pessimistic.



Hey, you need to go over and share this in the "Return to the Tomb of Horrors thread" . . .


----------



## Gentlegamer (Apr 25, 2005)

ssampier said:
			
		

> [hijack]
> I always liked, "their's not to reason why, their's but to do or die." It's a poem called, "Charge of the Light Brigade" by Lord Tennyson Alfred.
> [/hijack]



See also _The Trooper_, by Iron Maiden . . .


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 25, 2005)

rbingham2000 said:
			
		

> Indeed. The "Good Day to Die" maxim has lots of different origins from all over the world. My major recollection of it was that it was a major maxim among the Samurai of Feudal Japan.
> 
> And "Revenge is a dish best served cold" was a Sicilian proverb, if I recall correctly.



The Luxan variant is "Revenge is a dish best served immediately", IIRC


----------



## Henry (Apr 25, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> Star Trek - A Future of Misattribution.




What some fans don't get (not you, mind you) is that that whole thing is an in-joke with the Klingons -- that they steal a LOT of quotes. 

_"You haven't read Shakespeare, until you've read it in the original Klingon."_ - General Chang


----------



## mojo1701 (Apr 25, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> What some fans don't get (not you, mind you) is that that whole thing is an in-joke with the Klingons -- that they steal a LOT of quotes.
> 
> _"You haven't read Shakespeare, until you've read it in the original Klingon."_ - General Chang




In fact, the name "Chang" is Thai for "tastleless," which is a counterpoint for the Shakespeare-spewing Klingon.


----------



## Xath (Apr 25, 2005)

I would have attributed it to Star Trek.  Now I feel uncultured.


----------



## Mark (Apr 26, 2005)

johnsemlak said:
			
		

> Where does the line 'today is a good day to die' originate??





_I believe the first man to say, "Today is a good day to die," was also the first to hastily zip up after using a urinal..._ - Mark Clover (CreativeMountainGames.com)


----------



## Lasher Dragon (Apr 26, 2005)

No no no - it comes from Star_Craft_ - the Protoss air-to-air units are always blathering on about it being "A good day to die"

LOL


----------

