# 16 Questions about the new Flint & Steel RPG



## Crothian (Jul 22, 2013)

You lost me at " new RPG with no levels and no classes to constrain your creativity?" As a general rule for advertising it is best to not start with insulting what your potential customers might already like.  I see this so many times at Gen Con when someone is selling a new game and the only way they can do that is by saying how vastly superior it is to D&D, or Pathfinder, or Vampire, or whatever.  I talk to a lot of vendors at Gen Con and I'm there to spend money but when they do this I walk away.


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## Argyle King (Jul 22, 2013)

In contrast to Crothian, I find myself highly intrigued by the premise of the game, and the language used to describe the game is something I feel positive toward.


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## Ahnehnois (Jul 22, 2013)

I fall on the "sounds interesting" side. I don't miss classes and levels when they're gone and I'm curious to see how their magic works.


Crothian said:


> You lost me at " new RPG with no levels and no classes to constrain your creativity?" As a general rule for advertising it is best to not start with insulting what your potential customers might already like.  I see this so many times at Gen Con when someone is selling a new game and the only way they can do that is by saying how vastly superior it is to D&D, or Pathfinder, or Vampire, or whatever.  I talk to a lot of vendors at Gen Con and I'm there to spend money but when they do this I walk away.



If you'd read the whole thing, you'd see the question which he answers that F&S is "not better, but different". I don't like sales pitches that write checks that the game itself can't cash, but I don't see this as such an egregious example.


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## Challenger RPG (Jul 22, 2013)

@_*Crothian*_ : I certainly understand your point of view. I'd just like to point out that I'm in no way affiliated with Flint and Steel and that I was the sole creator of that 'pitch' line. It wasn't my intention to use it as advertising. I was merely following the new column rules and format. The creators of the game itself had nothing to do with such a blatant statement (which was all me) and in fact he's quite a modest fellow who said his game isn't 'better' but merely 'different.'

I'm sorry if my opening line seemed like advertising. I was just following the new article posting guidelines.

  @_*Johnny3D3D*_ : Thanks! I'm sure Bora would appreciate that. 

  @_*Ahnehnois*_ : I agree with your second statement, Ahnehnois. If anything, Mr. Mitricevic is one of the most modest game designers I've seen in a long time. Most game designers automatically tote their game as 'the best ever' right off the bat.

As for the no levels and classes, I also find that interesting. It's an idea I've been tossing around for a while in my own game designs. However, in practice I always find that the customers/players seem to prefer getting levels and classes. I'd still really like to see a game pull this off, but I now know it's a feat.

About the Magic System: I really loved the line "It was the only game where I felt spell-casters weren't horribly unbalanced." I've had loads of problems with overpowered magic users over the years. I've also seen a game or two which use similar magic systems (as far as I can tell). I like the idea of source magic. In one game I ran, the resident power gamer immediately made himself a coal bag so he would always have fire with him. It was pretty funny.

Thanks for the great comments, everyone!


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## Argyle King (Jul 22, 2013)

I think one of the tricks to enjoying a game without levels and classes is to explore what "power" means.  Does it mean numbers on your character sheet getting larger?  In many games it does, but why does it have to be limited to that definition?  Power can also mean in-game world advancement.  You might gain allies; become general of an army; research a spell that hasn't been cast since before mythical times, and a variety of other things.  Likewise, being a hero need not be tied to numbers and encounter powers; being a hero can be something illustrated by your actions and having the world you play in respond to those actions.  In short, you have an opportunity for more breadth of play.

I cannot say that F&S is like that.  Obviously, I have no played it, but I do enjoy other games which do not have levels and classes.  You certain can play the numbers advancement game with them if you really want to, but there's so much more that (I feel) you can do when you're not so heavily tied to vertical advancement.  


One question I have about F&S:  Does it have passive defense (such as D&D's AC) or active defense (such as GURPS in which you can parry, dodge, or block)?


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## Smoss (Jul 23, 2013)

Actually this sounds similar to the system I created for my gaming world. It is d20 based - you spend the experience you gain to get better. No classes, no levels. The one thing I learned about this was how much some people LOVE the structure of classes. So I stole an idea from ANOTHER similar system (Shadowrun) and made example characters as templates people could edit.

Examples are also good so people can see how the system works. Nice to see someone else inspired by the more gritty settings (My system is also quite deadly. Severe wounds like limb removal are built right into the system in a fast and easy way). Most of my inspiration came from RE Howard's pulp fiction (Conan) but Andrzej Sapkowski (Witcher) did have its effects.

So, yeah...  F&S designers...  GET OUT OF MY HEAD! 

Smoss


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## Gundark (Jul 23, 2013)

Crothian said:


> You lost me at " new RPG with no levels and no classes to constrain your creativity?" As a general rule for advertising it is best to not start with insulting what your potential customers might already like.  I see this so many times at Gen Con when someone is selling a new game and the only way they can do that is by saying how vastly superior it is to D&D, or Pathfinder, or Vampire, or whatever.  I talk to a lot of vendors at Gen Con and I'm there to spend money but when they do this I walk away.




Slightly different critique, but I see ads for new fantasy rpgs and they don't really do a good job and telling me why I should be interested. This game could be the best things ever, but the opening blurb made me go "meh"

Also the ads for it I saw on enworld was of some undead creature eating what looked like hair. Didn't make me scream "I wanna play!!"


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## Fetfreak (Jul 24, 2013)

_One question I have about F&S:  Does it have passive defense (such as D&D's AC) or active defense (such as GURPS in which you can parry, dodge, or block)?_ [MENTION=58416]Johnny3D3D[/MENTION]

We went with passive defense. Your defense is gained from your character's agility, armor coverage (the type of armor give SOAK bonus), dodge (you can upgrade with experience points) and shield bonus.
 [MENTION=82115]Smoss[/MENTION]
I know what you mean! I often find my ideas floating around, and I never told anyone about them. I blame aliens.
 [MENTION=6148]Gundark[/MENTION]
We didn't have much art to use for ads, so we did what we could. As for our undead, he ate all the flesh and is still hungry!

Bora.


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