# Best favored enemies?



## The Souljourner (Mar 8, 2003)

I'm currently playing a Barbarian 1 / ranger 4 who is about to get to ranger 5.  I'm planning on taking extra favored enemy as my level based feat, which will give me +2/+2/+1 after I get the ranger favored enemy.

I currently have outsiders (evil subtype) as my favored enemy, and I was wondering what people think would be a good choice for the other two.  My plan is aberration then magical beast, since they're both so common (and aberration first because they're often more difficult than magical beasts).  Just wondering if I'm missing anything good.  

Thanks,
-The Souljourner


----------



## shilsen (Mar 8, 2003)

Humans


----------



## Dingleberry (Mar 8, 2003)

If you haven't already seen it, _Masters of the Wild_ has a section on "Choosing a Favored Enemy" which could be helpful.

If you're non-human, I'd definitely go with Humanoid (humans).  Magical Beasts and Aberrations are both good.  Of course, a lot of the decision depends on your campaign.


----------



## Gaiden (Mar 8, 2003)

I very much like Giants (which includes trolls) and dragons.  But my choices are campaign dependent.


----------



## Crothian (Mar 8, 2003)

Giants, you have to go after giants.  I also like undead if you can take the devensive version from MotW


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Mar 8, 2003)

On a sidenote: I think "Evil Outsiders" isn't specific enough, at least without rule-0


----------



## bret (Mar 8, 2003)

Dragons, without a doubt.

They are some of the most dangerous creatures a party can face. If you have to fight them, you want every available advantage.

I also favor giants because there is a wide variety across the various levels, starting with Ogres and working up. This is quite a bit more campaign dependent though, almost every campaign has you face dragons while giants aren't quite as common.


----------



## Dr. Zoom (Mar 8, 2003)

KaeYoss said:
			
		

> *On a sidenote: I think "Evil Outsiders" isn't specific enough, at least without rule-0 *



It's a Favored Enemy variant in MotW, page 18.  You can choose one of the following subtypes of outsiders:  air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, and no subtype (e.g. aasimars or tieflings).


----------



## Li Shenron (Mar 8, 2003)

KaeYoss said:
			
		

> *On a sidenote: I think "Evil Outsiders" isn't specific enough, at least without rule-0 *




...and as a side-comment... I have always found it annoying that what would be specific enough has never been clearly stated by either PHB, DMG, MM or MotW  

Demons, Devils, Celestials, Slaadi are quoted as possible choices, but I have never seen a defined rule or a decent list.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Mar 8, 2003)

Dr. Zoom said:
			
		

> *
> It's a Favored Enemy variant in MotW, page 18.  You can choose one of the following subtypes of outsiders:  air, chaotic, earth, evil, fire, good, lawful, and no subtype (e.g. aasimars or tieflings). *




Not exactly core rule, but OK. 



			
				Li Shenron said:
			
		

> *
> 
> ...and as a side-comment... I have always found it annoying that what would be specific enough has never been clearly stated by either PHB, DMG, MM or MotW
> 
> Demons, Devils, Celestials, Slaadi are quoted as possible choices, but I have never seen a defined rule or a decent list. *




I think that it's specific enough: everything that has an entry in the MM. Demons have one collective entry, as do slaadi, and so on.


Back on track: Humans is definetly a good choice, if you're evil or non-human.
Other humanoids that appear quite often are a good choice, too. "Drow" would be perfect for an underdark campaign.


----------



## Dr. Zoom (Mar 8, 2003)

The Souljourner said:
			
		

> *I'm currently playing a Barbarian 1 / ranger 4 who is about to get to ranger 5.  I'm planning on taking extra favored enemy as my level based feat, which will give me +2/+2/+1 after I get the ranger favored enemy.*



Shouldn't the numbers be +2/+1/+1?  Extra favored enemy starts at +1 when you take it, then the next time you level up and gain another favored enemy, your extra favored enemy goes up, too.


----------



## Dr. Zoom (Mar 8, 2003)

Favored enemy seems to be very campaign specific.  A good choice would be whatever seems to plague your neck of the woods.  For example, in Middle Earth, orcs and goblinoids would be good choices.


----------



## Andion Isurand (Mar 8, 2003)

Do not pick the Beast or Shapechanger as a type

3.5 has removed them


----------



## Stalker0 (Mar 10, 2003)

Andion Isurand said:
			
		

> *Do not pick the Beast or Shapechanger as a type
> 
> 3.5 has removed them *




And because of that I think animals and magical beasts will be getting a lot more creatures- so magical beast might definately be a good choice.


----------



## krunchyfrogg (Mar 10, 2003)

Humans, if you can.


----------



## Cespinar (Mar 10, 2003)

Humans, Aberrations, Magical beasts, not in that order but should be the best 3


----------



## magnas_veritas (Mar 10, 2003)

bret said:
			
		

> *Dragons, without a doubt.
> 
> They are some of the most dangerous creatures a party can face. If you have to fight them, you want every available advantage.
> 
> I also favor giants because there is a wide variety across the various levels, starting with Ogres and working up. This is quite a bit more campaign dependent though, almost every campaign has you face dragons while giants aren't quite as common. *




Yep.  Dragons are key.  Actually, I'd go Giant first, then Dragon and Evil Outsider.  You'll see an ogre before you'll see a demon or devil, but still get reasonably good use out of it at higher levels.

I'm not sure that shapechanger wouldn't still be a valid choice, because it's still a subtype.  Of course, that depends on how often you run into leveled were-things.

Brad


----------



## tennyson (Mar 10, 2003)

I had a question along the same vein:

One of the players in my group chose werewolves as a favored enemy because of his character background.  Does that mean he would gain bonuses against all lycantropes (sp?), or just wolves in particular?


----------



## Witness (Mar 10, 2003)

posted by tennyson:


> One of the players in my group chose werewolves as a favored enemy because of his character background. Does that mean he would gain bonuses against all lycantropes (sp?), or just wolves in particular?



Actually, Werewolves, and all lycanthropes, are shapechangers so he would recieve the bonus not only against Werewolves, but all other lycanthropes as well as shapechanging creatures such as Dopplegangers.  Apparently though, as someone else already mentioned, the shapechanger creature type is being done-away with in 3.5 so assuming you adopt the new edition, his favored enemies are likely to change.


----------



## Li Shenron (Mar 10, 2003)

KaeYoss said:
			
		

> *I think that it's specific enough: everything that has an entry in the MM. Demons have one collective entry, as do slaadi, and so on.
> *




Ehh... not so clear IMHO: sometimes I have read FE(Devils) and sometimes FE(Outsider[Evil]). 

Another example of ambiguity is FE(Drow), very common in WotC material. But if Drow are an elven sub-race and share the MM entry with all other Elves, why not having just FE(Elves), which DOES include all sub-races? Or it doesn't? It's not that obvious...


----------



## Dark Jezter (Mar 10, 2003)

Although favored enemy is very dependent upon the campaign you're playing, I'd have to say that Giants are a good favored enemy due to the fact that there are several giant types available to fight over the course of the game; from ogres, to trolls, to ettins, to hill/fire/frost giants, etc.

Goblinoids can be a good favored enemy if your DM loves to throw goblins/hobgoblins/bugbears at you.   If you spend a lot of time in the underdark (if you are playing FR, that is), you may want to choose aberrations as a favored enemy.

Never choose undead, contructs, or oozes as a favored enemy, due to the fact that you won't get to apply the bonus damage to them.  (Unless you house rule it)

But in the end, it's all dependent upon campaign setting.


----------



## Kae'Yoss (Mar 10, 2003)

Li Shenron said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Ehh... not so clear IMHO: sometimes I have read FE(Devils) and sometimes FE(Outsider[Evil]). *




I think the reason why outsiders cannot be chosen is that they are to diverse to study them all, and that would extend to evil outsiders, since that could mean an evil geni, a devil, a demon, a yugoloth,.....

*



			Another example of ambiguity is FE(Drow), very common in WotC material. But if Drow are an elven sub-race and share the MM entry with all other Elves, why not having just FE(Elves), which DOES include all sub-races? Or it doesn't? It's not that obvious... 

Click to expand...


*
That's another rule variant, which I wholehartedly support: an elf has every reason to take Drow as their favored enemy (especially worshippers of Solonor and Shaverash). Also, it's even more specialized than elf, so it should be OK. The only thing is that a non-evil elf would technically choose his own race (both are elves), but I think that the differences between sub-races are big enough to allow that.

So there would be: 
elf(surface), elf(drow)
dwarf(duergar), dwarf (derro), dwarf ("normal").

Evil members of the races could of course take the whole race, so an evil drow ranger would get the bonuses against drow and all other elves.



			
				bret said:
			
		

> *Dragons, without a doubt.
> 
> They are some of the most dangerous creatures a party can face. If you have to fight them, you want every available advantage.*




That depends. If your DM is a member of B.A.D.D. or has a similar outlook, than don't bother, at least if you think the dragons (chromatic and metallic) only, and don't consider wyverns and the like...

Because if you really take on a real dragon played by a DM that plays them right, you'll probably end up against an enemy whose CR is on par with your party level, and therefore should be a piece of cake, but is to powerful for its CR as is, and uses masterful tactics, uses it's lair and the terrain around, knows that you're coming and is prepared. And uses all of it's powers to the full...


----------



## The Souljourner (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: Best favored enemies?*



			
				Dr. Zoom said:
			
		

> *
> Shouldn't the numbers be +2/+1/+1?  Extra favored enemy starts at +1 when you take it, then the next time you level up and gain another favored enemy, your extra favored enemy goes up, too. *




At 6th level you get a feat, I choose extra favored enemy.  Then you receive class based benefits, including the 5th level ranger's favored enemy, which bumps all other up by one, making it +2/+2/+1.  I checked the procedure for levelling up specifically to see if that worked the way I thought it did. Not bad, huh?

My DM decided to allow the damage to work against things that couldn't be critical hit, based on the fact that it's similar to specialization in power, and not allowing it to work would make it useless against several large groups.

Still, I don't know that I would take constructs or undead (and definitely not plants or oozes... too uncommon).      It's really a question of frequency, more than anything else.  Sure, taking dragon is pretty good, but really, how often do you fight dragons?  Once or twice a campaign?  Not that I feel the need to min/max, but getting to use my abilities at least fairly often would be nice.

I'll think about giants, since so many people seem to be pushing it. 

I guess what I should really do is ask my DM for suggestions.

-The Souljourner


----------



## Dr. Zoom (Mar 11, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Best favored enemies?*



			
				The Souljourner said:
			
		

> At 6th level you get a feat, I choose extra favored enemy.  Then you receive class based benefits, including the 5th level ranger's favored enemy, which bumps all other up by one, making it +2/+2/+1.  I checked the procedure for levelling up specifically to see if that worked the way I thought it did. Not bad, huh?



Not bad, but not correct, either.  The feat itself says, "When you advance *beyond* the level at which you gained Extra Favored Enemy, this bonus increases in the same way other favored enemy bonuses do."  So you cannot increase this favored enemy bonus at the same level at which you gained the feat.  You will have to wait until you reach Ranger 10 for your extra favored enemy bonus to increase to +2.


----------



## The Souljourner (Mar 11, 2003)

Hrm.  You may be reading too much into the wording.  Then again, this may be the exact thing they were trying to prevent.   If you are correct I'll just have to take barbarian 2 before I take ranger 5.  Personally, I think that they likely didn't mean it as a restriction, they just didn't take into consideration a multiclass ranger.  No other feat has a restriction like that, and this one's already neutered by the fact you have to have +5 BAB *and* it doesn't even bump up the rest of your favored enemies.  Geez.  

-The Souljourner


----------



## Dr. Zoom (Mar 11, 2003)

Since you get a feat at 15th level and a ranger gets his 4th favored enemy at 15th level, I think that is the reason for the language, as well as for multiclassed rangers who take this feat at the same level where they get a regular favored enemy.  I doubt very much they intended for someone to take this feat and jump immediately to a +2 bonus.


----------

