# E. N. World Gamer Cancelled?



## TheAuldGrump (Feb 24, 2005)

So, E. N. World Magazine has been cancelled?
http://www.mongoosepublishing.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=5891

The Auld Grump


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## Macbeth (Feb 24, 2005)

Really? That's not good. RangerWickett or Morrus, could you give us the word from your end?


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## Greylock (Feb 24, 2005)

Not cool. I was looking forward to more issues. I only got my hands on #2, but it was a worthy mag.


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## Morrus (Feb 24, 2005)

We weren't going to announce it until Mongoose had contacted the subscribers, but yes, the mag got cancelled.  Nobody was buying it!


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## Greylock (Feb 24, 2005)

Do you mean, online or in brick 'n mortar? Flew off the shelves around my area.


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## JoeGKushner (Feb 24, 2005)

Shame about that.

Weak d20 market and a magazine that competed against Mongoose's own signs & Portents never looked like a good deal in the first place but ymmv.


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## Verequus (Feb 27, 2005)

Being also a subscriber, I have question regarding the law in England, where Mongoose resides: Can a company dictate, what happens with money for a contract, which the company only partially fulfilled? Mongoose would only refund the half of the remaining money, but under German law this is AFAIK illegal. So the question is, if this is legal by British law. Not that I want to sue them - I've used the other option and bought another book, which is interesting - but for the next time, I'll encounter this situation, I want to know, what all my options are.


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## Morrus (Feb 27, 2005)

I have no idea, to be honest.  If the contract ends prematurely, then a half refund sounds fair to me - otherwise you're getting something for nothing.  

I'd assume that Mongoose knows what it's doing, legally.  

I'm suprised to hear that there are countries which would handle that in a different way.  What if, for example, the situation was reversed?  Of you had paid short by a few pennies for some reason (by mistake, for example); would you think it OK if, as you had only partially fulfilled the contract, they got to keep your money and deliver you nothing?   Because that's what you're asking them to do - you get to keep their magazine and you pay them nothing.

In the latter case, what any company would do would be to require you to come up with the missing amount of money.  If you couldn't do that for any reason, they wouldn't be able to just keep the money you'd sent them and ask for the mags back.  Similarly, since they can't come up witht he missing magazines, you can't just keep what they've given you and ask for your money back.  You can get back the cost of the mags you didn't receive, though.

In fact, take it further - what if it was a year sub to Dragon and, for some reason, Paizo couldn't deliver the final (12th) issue it owed you.  Would you feel you should have all your money back AND the 11 magazines?  Or that they recompensed you for the mag you didn't get?


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## Morrus (Feb 27, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> I've used the other option and bought another book, which is interesting




They're discontinuing EN World's magazine but trying to get the subscribers EN World directed to them to buy another product with that money?  Hmmm.... interesting.  Something to bear in mind for the future.


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## Verequus (Feb 27, 2005)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I have no idea, to be honest. If the contract ends prematurely, then a half refund sounds fair to me - otherwise you're getting something for nothing.
> 
> I'd assume that Mongoose knows what it's doing, legally.
> 
> ...




No, you misunderstood me: In the case of a refund, I don't want the money back for the magazines - and their shipment costs - which I received, but for the ones, which I don't have received. In the case of the EN Gamer, it would be for 4 magazines, not the six per year. In Germany, I could receive the total of the remaining money next to the option to buy books from it, not that I can have only the half of the remaining money in cash back - the latter would be illegal by German law. Is it by British law, too?


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## Morrus (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm afraid I still don't get what's happened.  You're receiving back less than the value of the product you paid for and didn't receive?  That wouldn't be right, no.

Just to clear it up - could you let us know how much you paid, how much you were offered back and what conditions (if any) were applied to it?


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## Verequus (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm not sure what I have paid exactly - probably the same as everyone else. Can someone fill me up there? Otherwise, here is the complete text of the email, I've received:

"Hello,

 It is with deep regret that I have to inform you that we will not be releasing any more copies of this magazine.   We have been unable to sustain this magazine at its current level of profitibility.  We are sorry about this and woudl like to apologise for any inconvenience caused.

 As you have a subscription we would like to present you with two options for the remainin part of the subscription.

 Option 1, As there are been 2 issues sent out and you have subscribed from issue one we will refund teh remiaing 50% of the subscription price.

 Option 2, we will refund you the full subscription value (incl postage) if you wish to take in product rather than as a refund. So if you could complete the attached form with the books/ miniatures you would like to receive from us, we will get them sent out to you asap.  

 If you are unsure of what products we currently have please visit www.mongoosepublishing.com where all new and current products will be shown.


 With option 1 we will refund $12.67

 With option 2 you will recieve a store credit for $25.34

 Please let me know which you wish to take up.


 Regards
 Mark Humphries"


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## MatthewJHanson (Feb 27, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> In the case of the EN Gamer, it would be for 4 magazines, not the six per year.




I think this is where the confusion lies. In theory EN Gamer was suposed to come out four times per year, not six, every three months. In practice I think issue one came out a little late, and issue two came out a little early, so they might have actually been closer to two months apart, which might have be why you thought you had subscribed to six issues. 

P.S. I am also sad to see the gamer go. It seemed to do well at my FLGS.


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## Verequus (Feb 27, 2005)

Actually, it doesn't matter, if the EN Gamer would have been published four instead six times per year for my argument (although I'm quite sure, that it was bimonthly): Instead four outstanding issues there would have been only two. The problem lies in the money, which I have paid, but won't be used in the production and delivery of the EN Gamer anymore. The $25.34 in my case.


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## Morrus (Feb 27, 2005)

I'm still confused.

So, you paid for 4 issues. You got two, and they offered to refund you half of your subscription, that being the cost of the other two?  That sounds eminently fair.

And it appears they've offerered to give you the FULL subscription in product (i.e. you end up getting those two mags free) if you choose product instead.

Unless I'm misunderstanding something, I think they've gone out of their way to be very fair.  What am I missing?


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## MatthewJHanson (Feb 28, 2005)

Okay, here's my new theory about where the communications broke down.



			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Mongoose would only refund the half of the *remaining* money



 (bold mine)

When Mongoose says they will refund half the subscription price, what I think they mean is half the _orriginal_ subscription price: the price of all four issues (I still think quarterly). This is why it matters if it is four vs. six. If you recieved two, are were supposed to recieve four, then you have recieved half of what you paid for, and thus should get back half of what you orriginally paid. If you are correct and you were supposed to recieve six issues, than you would be entitled to more.


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## Morrus (Feb 28, 2005)

It was a quarterly magazine - 4 issues per year.  Seems the confusion comes because RuleMaster was under the impression that it was a bi-monthly magazine.


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## Greylock (Feb 28, 2005)

Russell, I  haven't followed ENWorldGamer from day one here on the board, but I sincerely loved the one issue I picked up at a newstand. Here in Memphis, TN of all places. 

I have criticised PDFs a bit as not my cuppa, but if I knew a pay-to-download PDF offered all the goodies that one mag (Issue 2) had, I'd buy it unseen. Every single time, every single month. Why? I trust this  crew, and your taste. Served me pretty damned good so far.

Figure out some way to keep Gamer going, and I'll keep sending in the $.


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## Verequus (Feb 28, 2005)

Hmm, the problem seems to be that I don't know, what I've paid originally for the subscription - and I don't find the documents right now. If it were the $25.34, then it changes everything - it would be indeed a generous offer. And that EN Gamer was quarterly instead bimonthly - my memory hasn't served me right in this case.

To Greylock's suggestion: If the EN Gamer would be a PDF, then I would renew my subscription, too.


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## Alzrius (Mar 1, 2005)

Hmm, I haven't received an email from Mongoose yet...  :\


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## Morrus (Mar 1, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> Russell, I haven't followed ENWorldGamer from day one here on the board, but I sincerely loved the one issue I picked up at a newstand. Here in Memphis, TN of all places.
> 
> I have criticised PDFs a bit as not my cuppa, but if I knew a pay-to-download PDF offered all the goodies that one mag (Issue 2) had, I'd buy it unseen. Every single time, every single month. Why? I trust this crew, and your taste. Served me pretty damned good so far.
> 
> Figure out some way to keep Gamer going, and I'll keep sending in the $.




Unfortunately, paid e-zines are both more expensive to produce than a regular PDF product, and they also sell far, far less.  It would end up costing money.  Nobody buys the darn things!

We still have Issue 3, and are trying to work out what to do with it.  It can't go to print now, but the work has all been done - we have an entire magazine in electronic format.  Selling that one issue as a PDF is an option.  Breaking it up is another option - the d20 mini-game on its own would be a pretty nice little 10-page product.  We'll think of some way to recoup the cost of producing it.


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## Greylock (Mar 1, 2005)

Morrus said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, paid e-zines are both more expensive to produce than a regular PDF product, and they also sell far, far less.  It would end up costing money.  Nobody buys the darn things!




Did not know that. Of course, I've yet to get bit by the PDF bug, so I can't claim to even remotely understand the market. What else I fail to understand, is how Mongoose can File 13 ENWorld Gamer so quickly. It didn't seem to get a legitimate shot. Issue 1 never made it to my market, so I figger the same goes for lots of other folks. Issue 2 disappeared pretty fast 'round here.


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## MatthewJHanson (Mar 2, 2005)

I was alot a little surprised/dissapointed that it dissapeared so quickly. It didn't even have a chance to get showed of at a Gencon. If you guys were loosing barrles off money though I can't  blame you.

I'm glad to hear that something will probably be done with issue 3. (Especially since I wrote an article for it).


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## Macbeth (Mar 2, 2005)

MatthewJHanson said:
			
		

> (Especially since I wrote an article for it).



I believe an article I wrote was also scheduled for issue three, so it's good to know that it might still see the light of day. I sent a email to RangerWickett asking what would become of the articles, and since I have gotten no responses yet, I would assume they're still deciding.


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## Alzrius (Mar 6, 2005)

MatthewJHanson said:
			
		

> I'm glad to hear that something will probably be done with issue 3. (Especially since I wrote an article for it).




I hear you on that one.


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## TheAuldGrump (Mar 8, 2005)

My (not so) friendly neighborhood game store told me that they couldn't special order the magazine the first month it was out. Looking at their distributor's website shows that they were full of it.

And then they wonder why folks go mail order...

The Auld Grump


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## RangerWickett (Mar 8, 2005)

We want to sell the magazine file, slightly edited, as a pdf.  We're examining how to handle the details of it, though.  Also, Jake has a high-level college courseload, and it's mid-terms time, so he's been a little busy.  We'll let you know more when we've decided it.  *grin*

I'm glad to hear that people are still interested in the magazine.  Stay tuned.


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## Greylock (Mar 8, 2005)

Tsk, tsk. Excuses are unseemly, Mr.Nock. Now, hurry and gather up your friends and seperate me from my money before I go on disability. That gives you ten days. Get busy, times a'wastin'...


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## superpriest (Apr 29, 2005)

Has there been any information on the EN World Gamer?  The magazine's page is very out-of-date.  I'm hoping to hear about a pdf version of issue 3.


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## RangerWickett (Apr 29, 2005)

Look, I'm in a bad mood today, so you get to know the truth, even though it's not really smart for me to say this.  I want to sell the bloody pdf.  Everyone else in ENPub wants to sell it.  But no one else seems to want to okay my proposals for how to compensate the writers and artists, so it's just languishing.  I don't have the ability to put the product for sale, so I'm left to just prod my co-workers every few days, in hopes that they'll actually spend the 5 minutes it takes to make a damned decision.

On the up side, Chainmail Bikinis should be on sale tonight or tomorrow, only 29 days after its original scheduled release date.  It was ready for layout by March 25th, but it just didn't happen.

So see, I'd love to be releasing these things as soon as they're done.  If I could, I could probably afford to pay the rent on writing, instead of having to take a second job at a grocery store.

A man needs a good rant every once in a while.


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## superpriest (Apr 30, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> in hopes that they'll actually spend the 5 minutes it takes to make a damned decision.



Yep.  I know how that feels.  Hope you can get them moving.


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## JoeGKushner (May 5, 2005)

Ah, money, the root of all evil. It always comes back to it.


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## CarlZog (May 23, 2005)

Sorry for resurrecting a long dead thread here, but I only just discovered that EnWorld Gamer bit the dust. I had been buying it on my infrequent visits to Compleat Strategist in NY.

I am very sorry to hear that the magazine was cancelled. Magazine publishing is sketchy business in the best of times, but seems particularly tight these days. For what it's worth, I bought every issue of it and the player's journal. I thought it was great stuff.

I'm curious: Whatever happened to the corpse of issue 3? I'm guessing at this point it won't ever see sale as a pdf...

Carl


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## loki44 (Jun 17, 2005)

CarlZog said:
			
		

> Sorry for resurrecting a long dead thread here, but I only just discovered that EnWorld Gamer bit the dust.




Yeah, I'm even slower on the uptake here.  Sorry to see it go as well.  So, will there be refunds for those of us who subscribed?


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## RangerWickett (Jun 17, 2005)

Subscriptions were all handled through Mongoose Publishing.  You'll need to contact them . . . gimme a sec to track down an appropriate email address.


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## RangerWickett (Jun 17, 2005)

sales@mongoosepublishing.com looks like a good bet.


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## Morrus (Jun 23, 2005)

Good news!  The PDF if Issue 3 has been sent RPGNow for those interested in a downloadable copy.

http://www.rpgnow.com/product_info.php?products_id=5004&SRC=EnWorld

As I'm typing this it hasn't been activated for sale yet, but it may well be by the time you read this!


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