# Arabesu's Eyes of the Lich Queen, w/ Boons! - OOC



## Arabesu (Feb 6, 2008)

Welcome Lab Rats,

I am currently running a table top campaign through this module with starting my group at 6th level with special wealth rule below. I think I may have overdone it though because they seem to be sticking these challenges pretty hard even though they are ostensibly 2 and 3 above them. This module is tough and I expected more deaths. So as an experiment (hence the greeting) I want to run a group of six to eight 5th level PCs through, to reassure me that there should be more blood   

This is supposed to be for 5th level PCs to run through 9th or 10th level if they survive.

The rules:

5th level characters with 10% xp above the mininum for fifth.

Choose one: 28 point buy, 15/14/13/11/10/8 array, or roll on invisible castle. Choose before you roll if you choose to roll.

Average hit points to start. Hit point rolls at later levels can be re-rolled once at a loss of half your starting action points or you can take the maximum hp if you begin the level with NO action points.

All WOTC published 3.5 material available except stuff from Dragon/Dungeon. 

Maximum number of classes = 3; NO EXCEPTIONS! 

Wealth (here is the real catch): 

4000 gp to spend as you will on as many items as your 4k can stretch.

20000 gp to spend on one Boon Item. You can spend part of the above 4k on this item if you want, bringing the total up to 24k for one item if you so choose, but of course you won't have anything else. Anything not spent out of this 20k is lost; i.e. you get no leftover gold from it.

MIC, DMG, available with intellegent items encouraged.

The MIC offers a table (I don't have the number) for adding common abilities to items, such as Dex +2 for boots and gloves. That rule can only be applied once to items generally, thus you could have boots of speed with +2 dex, but not the same with element resistence also. The Boon Item above is an exception to this and can have as many common abilities as is appropriate to affinity.

You Boon Item should be special. You don't get into the campaign unless you write a special history of the item along with your background. Ideally they should mesh into a cohesive whole; i.e. your character should be *defined* by this Boon Item somehow.

Have at it.


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## Bloodcookie (Feb 6, 2008)

I've been eager to play in an Eberron adventure for some time now, and I have a fairly fleshed-out concept for a Wizard cum Alienist. The boon item presents some interesting possibilities, and I'll get to thinking about how to incorporate them


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 7, 2008)

mmm I have seen several EotLQ games start up on this site but never got into any of them early enough. I present Hightower, the goliath barbarian2/swordsage2 (shadow hand) slave from the bowls of the sharn forges. He was taunted and beaten down his whole young life and learned of defend himself with the very massive chains that bound him as his mountainous rage boiled inside. After a time he met a hermit living in seclusion on the lowest levels who taught him how to mold and command the very shadows that he lived in. 

His boon item is a nasty, large sized spike chain that he talks to.

do you allow flaws from Unearthed Arcana?

Can a weapon crystal (MIC) be part of the boon item money?


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

1) don't have unearthed arcana; propose your flaw/trait combo and I will evaluate... in all likelyhood yes, with an ECL+1 hit your going to be a bit behind anyway even with a strong ECL+1 race, so I'll be fairly leanient unless its obviously broken. 

2) One crystal is allowed out of your Boon allotment, and this becomes the main crystal you are expected to start the day/encounter with. If you switch it out willy-nilly I may re-evaluate. You can of course buy other crystals from the 4k, but they do not have as much protection from being destroyed or stolen as your Boon item and matching crystal, does.

Boon Items don't work for other PCs. Woe be to a PC who steals another's boon item. Perhaps they are cursed, or just don't work, or in the case of an intellegent item stubornly refuses to cooperate; If a PC dies, don't expect their boon item to be a viable part of looting their body.

Three NPCs over the course of the adventure will also have Boon Items; these are named NPCs with action points etc who are designed to be recurring faces. These three boon items will not work for you as well... similar to your boon items.

If some effect takes your boon item from your, such as a sunder or failed save, I will probably choose to take another item of my choice instead, unless you haven't been depending upon the item...

Upgrading the Boon items will be relatively worry free, essentially you will auto-succeed on gather info checks to find an artificer able to uprade it assuming you are in a sufficiently large city to contain said artificer. Buying other items will not be so easy, but you can find all of your starting gear because you have all the time you need.


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## stonegod (Feb 7, 2008)

Just as FYI: There are two other Eyes of the Lich Queen's currently running, so you might want to change your thread's title to 'Arabesu's Eyes of the Lich Queen' or such to avoid confusion.
- DEFCON's
- Redclaw's


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

*good point*

Thanks Stonegod!


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 7, 2008)

I would be interested in an Eberron campaign.  I have the ECS book, and all of the other source books, so I can easily come up with something for flavor.  Artificer looks nice, but I will hash out a character that would be good for the group.  I see there's a melee fighter, and a wizard, so I will see about a Dragon Shaman if the PHBII is allowed.


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

*Shadow blade goofiness*

Vertexx69,



> His boon item is a nasty, large sized spike chain that he talks to.




In my home campaign we have ruled that the dex bonus to damage afforded by Shadow Blade does not stack with strength, i.e. it replaces it much like the dex bonus to attack rolls replaces strength when using weapon finesse.

Spiked Chain is often lambasted as broken and generally I disagree, except in this particular case, where hand and a half strength combined with dex, wis, and int to damage along with 2 for 1 power attack can lead to imbalanced amounts of damage for relatively little investment:

Consider a swashbuckler 3, swordsage 3 for example...

I am willing to open this up for discussion, but I would limit the discussion to players in this PbP. Basically, if everyone agrees that its OK then I'll allow it... but for the bad guys too!


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 7, 2008)

Wren, Human Dragon Shaman 5.  Copper Dragon or Brass dragon would be his totem dragon, as he would like the ability for Spider Climb at will or  Endure Elements as Eberron would be in favor of.

His weapons would not be that hard to figure out, as he would be in favor of Longspear, to stay behind the front liners, and provide them and everyone else the benefit of his aura's.  Also, Line of Fire or Acid would be a nice little attack, to take care of groups of bad guys.  Auras would benefit everyone, and taking Brass Dragon would grant resistance aura for everyone vs fire.  Healing would be good as well, but that won't happen until 6th level, with ability to heal others limited amount per day.

So, is this guy acceptable?


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 7, 2008)

I'd be interested in this could I play a shapeshift-variant druid? I've been itching to try out a high level one of these. It's a variant from PHBII that gives simpler version of wild shape. I was thinking shifter for race. As for boon item, I'll have to look those up again as I'm not sure precisely what it is. From my interpretation though I'd make it a single gauntlet that aided with magic casting (since items don't help while shapeshifted). I could provide a combination of spellcasting, buffs and fighting.


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

Welcome Fangor!



> Wren, Human Dragon Shaman 5. Copper Dragon or Brass dragon would be his totem dragon, as he would like the ability for Spider Climb at will or Endure Elements as Eberron would be in favor of.




Thats funny, I play a Copper Dragon Shaman in my buddy's Undermountain campaign: Ronald Copperbottom, halfling dragon shaman. For a halfling he is a spectacular physical specimen   

So yes a dragon shaman would work fine. The spider climb ability will really come in handy as will the endure elements; knowing what I know about the module I'd be uncertain which I'd take! 

What would your boon item be? I'd recommend a dragon spirit cincture, with con enhancement and perhaps strength since both share the belt affinity and con is such a big deal for the dragon shaman. Or instead, you could make it intelligent if you took one or the other and could get a cool power...


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

Welcome Jack!



> I'd be interested in this could I play a shapeshift-variant druid?




A good choice, but you'd either have to choose the shapeshifter-variant OR the shifter racial substitution levels; it won't work if you try both for obvious reasons.



> As for boon item, I'll have to look those up again as I'm not sure precisely what it is. From my interpretation though I'd make it a single gauntlet that aided with magic casting (since items don't help while shapeshifted). I could provide a combination of spellcasting, buffs and fighting.




The boon item is just a magic item customized to your character, kind of like a legacy item but without the onerous penalties. Remember that your gear melds into your form and becomes non-funtional while shapeshifted; thus the first thing you would want to purchase would be a wildling clasp or its equivelent to make sure you can use your boon item while shapeshifted. This could be treated as your single augment crystal type add on. MIC has both the wildling clasp and the crystals.

As for a boon to your spellcasting +1, it'd have a base of 15k similar to the orange-prism ioun stone, but slotted to gloves so a 50% discount, that leaves about 5k to pick up the wildling clasp for 4k, and for 1k you could make it like bracers of armor +1 giving you an additional boon when shifted: 15 + 4 +1. Of course you're free to pick something else, but this is just my humble suggestion.   

You'd need to provide a background of course...


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 7, 2008)

Ok, for Boon item, I would think this guy would need a good weapon.  How about a +1 Impaling/Returning Longspear of Changeling.  Costing me 20,305gp (had to dip into the 4k alloted for items), it would enable me to use a Longspear, Shortspear or Spear as a swift action each round, and also grant me 3/day chances to have next melee attack be a Touch Attack.  That, along with the Returning Property, allows me to throw and still be effective with my aura's.  Plus, it would be harder (hopefully) to lose the item if it had the returning property.

He would be all in favor of having said weapon, learning that his aura's work best when he's near the center of the group.  Finding out the hard way, that he could not rely on one type of weapon, he found a perfect symbiotic relationship with this new weapon's ability to be versatile, just as he was.  Able to stand in the second line of defense, he could skewer the foes and make use of the front liners as his defense.  

Having been used to not being able to defend the front ranks, but needing to offer some offensive abilities, he came across the needs of a weapon to be usable in all situations.  His breath attack is fire based, as he would like to show that his dragon totem, the brass dragon, is one of power and control.  Able to withstand the harsh environments he usually finds himself in, (having Endure Elements at will), he is a person that can continue to weather most things thrown at him.  His survival skills are used to the advantage of the others as well, having learned to survive on what the land can offer (Skill Focus Survival).

Now, with being able to lend a hand in most situations, he is learning to try to provide some much needing healing.  But that power seems so close, yet not in his hands now.  (Next level, ability to heal limited amount per day)


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

Not to be a stickler, but technically it'd have to be a +1 impaling/Returning *Spear* of Changeling, since a longspear can't be thrown. You could use it as a longspear thanks to the changeling property but when you want to throw it you'd have to activate the changeling property to revert it back to a spear. My recollection is that it was a swift action to use that ability. So most of the time this won't be a problem, except on rounds when you want to switch auras. Please check on the activation time on the changeling ability, at work I don't have access to MIC only memory which is unfortunately fallible. If it is a free action or no action to reshape the weapon then disregard what I just wrote. If swift, at higher levels you can upgrade it to be no action to change and have the returning be immediate, rather than at the end of the round, at a cost of +50% of the returning and changeling properties alone.

Pretty cool concept... when do you think you'll have a sheet ready?


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 7, 2008)

I know there is the Wild [or something like that] trait for armors but from what I recall reading this usually (always up to DM interpretation) does not work while shapeshifted. I searched through all the crystals (and a general word search since I converted all my books to pdf) for anything about wildshape, wildling, etc but couldn't find anything matching the description you gave. 

So it looks like I'd be stuck being unable to use whatever benefits the boon item gave while shapeshifted. If that's the case I'm thinking of mixing in either deflection or natural armor with that 15k +1 caster level bonus. Extra DC's, buff durations and longer disabling spells are always useful.

As for the item itself, I really like the way it looks/story behind it so far:
Boon Item background: [sblock]Boon item: This strange object encases Faris's left forearm. It appears to be a large, single bracer of iron with
small rubies inset in spiraling patterns. The bracer extands down over the back of her fist where it splits into several small chains with individual 
silver rings for her fingers. The unique item was found rather then created for the family although since it was found no one has been able to use it but 
those of her bloodline. Her great, great, grandmother began the tradition of heading out on adventure on one's seventeenth birthday. In this case, her ancestor found her way into
an old wizard's complex located somewhere in the Aldeen Reaches. While the location of the place is no longer known, it is said that it had previously been looted
before her great, great grandmother ever arrived. However the band found a door with large spirals full of inset rubies. These rubies were stuck fast and neither magic nor strength
could remove them. When the Ravenblood approached the door it spiralled open to reveal a large, dust covered room with numerous old skeletons scatterred about. Further investigation
showed strange gnaw marks on the bones. Situated on a pedestal behind a stone alter sat this bracer. The first to remove it was a gnome hunter who provided guiding to the location
but he could not figure out how to use or wear the strange object. After  Faris's relative took the item it seemed to put itself on. The band took this as a sign and let her keep the object.
The strange item is said to provide a small amount of protection to its wearer in addition to increasing the effects of any spell cast while wearing it. (+2 deflection bonus (6k) and +1 caster level (15k) =21k and digging into the 4k for other equipment. I considered making it a Wis bonus instead, but I like the gauntlet idea so much better and Wis only adds to throat/head)[/sblock]

EDIT: Okay question about if I wanted to use shifter (not the racial sub. levels) as the race. Could I shift while shapeshifting? And if so would the attribute bonuses stack? The shifting ability does not label the increase as an enhancement bonus. And thirdly, if I chose a type with a natural bite or claw attack could I add the bonuses (+1/4 character levels)that I would normally get for using a claw attack while shifted in addition to bonuses for using the same bite or claw attack with shapeshift? (+1 enhancement/4 druid levels)


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## Douane (Feb 7, 2008)

I'd be interested in playing a ranged combatant (ranger-fighter multi-class). 

His boon would be his weapon of choice, a bow fashioned from the dead tree of his late lover, a Dryad. Probably with some degree of intelligence as some of her sentience still lingers within.


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 7, 2008)

Wow that's a combination of really cool and really creepy.... Here's my favored weapon, carved from my lover's leg.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 7, 2008)

Yeah, I didn't edit the above post, as it should have been a spear, as you noted.  I can have a character done in an hour, or so.  I need to know about the dice rolls for stats, is that 4d6 taking highest three?


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## Douane (Feb 7, 2008)

Success!! 

The original idea was the bow being carved unwittingly from a sentient tree, but then I thought "Why not kick it up a notch?".  As far as he is concerned, being tied to the tree still did not make her part of it. (That's what he keeps telling himself, at least.)


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

That is a cool item. Well described.

The wildling clasp is the last or next to the last page of the "things you wear" section of the MIC not the augment crystals section.

I see no reason why a wildling clasp couldn't be added later.. 

As to the shapeshifting and shifter abilities, my recollection is that unlike true wildshape, you still keep access to your ability scores and racial abilities while shapeshifted, you simply loose access to worn items. So yes, shifter would work well. In fact, in our other campaign, we have just that, a moonspeaker shifter with shapeshifting and we've always allowed him to shift and shapeshift. Unless one of the other PbP players objects, and I can't imagine they would, then thats how I will rule it. Your already taking a bit of hit if you don't get access to your boon part of the time, so I see no reason to kick you while your down so to speak.


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## Arabesu (Feb 7, 2008)

Douane, sick (as in cool) and sick (as in disgusting) item.   

Fangor, yes 4d6 drop one.

So far we have:

Douane - Archer (race?) with creapy-lover-bow
Fangor - Human brass-dragon shaman with anime style morphing spear.
Jack - Shifter druid with ornamental gauntlet that boosts spell power.
Vertexx69 - Chain weilding goliath martial artist ex-slave.
Bloodcookie - Alienist (race?)

Five is enough to start, so once I get character sheets I can start the first "session."

This module encourages starting off each night with a fight and then using flashbacks to recount events leading up to the fight. This worked well at the table, so once sheets are up we'll start off right in the middle of combat.


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## Douane (Feb 7, 2008)

That was quick. I was just about to post a "warning" that I've never played in Eberron before in case you'd rather choose someone else with more experience. (Have the Campaign Setting, though, so no problems on that side.)


Regarding race, I'm still waffling a bit. Originally I had Human (or Elf, perhaps) in mind, but having now read a bit more, a Shifter also looks fitting.


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## Bloodcookie (Feb 8, 2008)

Hey, I've become a bit busier than anticipated. So as not to hold everyone up, I'm going to respectfully withdraw. 
Have fun, everyone!


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

Dragon Shaman
[sblock=]
Human
Dragon Shaman 5
Neutral Good
6'0"
180 lbs

HP: 42
AC: 18 	(Base 10, +2DEX, +6 Armor)
Flat Footed: 16 
Touch: 12
BAB: +3

STR: 14 (+2)
DEX:  14 (+2)
CON:  12 (+1)
INT:  10 (+0)
WIS:  10 (+0)
CHA: 16 (+3)

Fortitude: +5 (4 base, +1 CON)
Reflex:  +3  (1 base, +2 DEX)
Will:    +4  (4 base, +0 WIS

Attacks:
Weapon,	Attack, Damage, Crit, Range

(Spear made of a Copper Dragon's femur)
+1 Impaling/Returning Spear of Changeling

(Spear) +6 to hit, d8+4dmg, x3, 20' 
(Longspear) +6 to hit, d8+4dmg, x3, 10' reach
(Shortspear) +6 to hit, d6+3dmg, x2, 20'

Initiative: +2

Feats:
Endurance
Diehard
Improved Toughness
Skill Focus Hide (Class Bonus)

Abilities: Copper Dragon Totem (Acid)
Draconic Aura +2
Draconic Adaptation - Spider Climb (Sp) at will
Breath Weapon, Line of Acid, DC15 for 1/2 2d6 Acid, 30' line
Draconic Resolve, Immune to Paralysis and Sleep effects as well as Frightful Presence of Dragons

Auras (30' Radius)
 *1 Vigor Aura (gain Fast Healing 2, for all allies <1/2 max HP)
 *2 Energy Shield Aura (opponents attacking with melee or natural attacks and not with reach take 4 points of Acid dmg per attack)
 *3 Toughness Aura (DR2/Magic)
 *4 Senses Aura (+2 Bonus to Listen, Spot and Initiative)
 *5 Power (+2 bonus to damage on melee attacks)

Skills: (3/level, 12+12)
Class Skills: (Bluff, Craft, Hide, Intimidate, Jump, Knowledge Nature, Search, Swim)

Bluff                      
Craft 
Hide +10 (8 ranks, +2 Ability, +3 Feat, -3 AC Penalty)                       
Intimidate      
Jump           
Knowledge Nature 3 (1 ranks, +2 Synergy)
Search +8 (8 ranks)
Swim +3 (7 ranks, +2 Ability, -6 AC Penalty)

Listen 0      
Spot 0    

Languages:
Common

Items Found: 

Personal: 
Item Cost Weight

Backpack 2, 2

Backpack Contents: 16.5 lbs
Bedroll .1, 5
Candle x10  .1
Chalk x12 .12
(red, 2white, yellow, green,
 orange, blue, 2black, pink,
 2copper)
Flint and Steel 1
Sunrod x2 4, 2
Signal Whistle .8,
Belt Pouch 1, .5
Copper Dragon Signet Ring 5 
Universal Solvent, 50
Everfull Mug 200 
Everlasting Rations 350

Current Carrying Load

Light 
Medium 
Heavy 

Treasure:
30 gp left 

Potions:


Magic Item Slots:

Head – 
Eyes - 
Neck – 
Arms/Wrists - 
Hands - Brute Gauntlets (3charges/day, +2/+3/+4 to STR Skills, Checks or Melee dmg, 500gp)
Ring - 
Ring - 
Belt - Healing Belt (750gp)
Body – +1 Breastplate (1850gp) with Least Crystal of Adaptation (Endure Elements)
Vest/Shirt - 
Cloak – 
Feet – 
[/sblock]


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

So I decided to go with Copper Dragon, as Spider Climb at will is too good to pass up.  Plus, with a least crystal on my armor, I gain Endure Elements anyways.  I lose Survival, but gain Hide, nice tradeoff to me.

See if there is anything wrong, and if I should look at various items to enhance this guy.  I have about 1079gp left, for potions, items, whatever.  Any ideas welcome!


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

Fangor,

As a special bonus specific to copper dragon shamans you may choose to drop climb as a class skill and pick up swim...

You don't have many skill points though, so it may not matter to you.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Fangor,
> 
> As a special bonus specific to copper dragon shamans you may choose to drop climb as a class skill and pick up swim...
> 
> You don't have many skill points though, so it may not matter to you.




You're right, with the low skill points, it's not that much of a difference, but one worth mentioning.  I think I will reduce Kn Nature to 3 ranks, and get 5 ranks in Swim.  You never know when it will come in handy... Besides, I might just dump all ranks from Kn Nature, since we have a Druid, and spend those in Swim.  THANKS!


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 8, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Spiked Chain is often lambasted as broken and generally I disagree, except in this particular case, where hand and a half strength combined with dex, wis, and int to damage along with 2 for 1 power attack can lead to imbalanced amounts of damage for relatively little investment.




thinking about the shaky flaw (-2 to ranged combat) and unreactive ( -6 initiative) to get those 2 extra feats. Making my choices EPW chain, power attack (-3 att for +6 dmg), cleave and combat reflexes (3 AoOs with 15-25ft reach). So no need to even worry about shadow blade.

I started this character in a tabletop game last year but only got to play him 4-5 times before RL intruded and the game ended.

On a different topic, I can't seem to access Invisible castle since I formatted my computer so could I get you to roll me up a set? Unless you want to just use your dice at home or let me.

The set I rolled up here is 16, 16, 15, 15, 12, 8 (I've only rolled an 18 once in the last 15 characters I've played TT )

and could I get a price check on augment crystals for +1d6 dmg, ghost touch and DR if you'd be so kind? (I have the spell compenium not the MIC ;p)


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

*Rogues gallery*

Please copy your PCs here when you are ready to go!


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

*stuff for Hightower*

Stats for Hightower 

15, 15, 13, 13, 11, 11

I think it would be more balanced to limit your character to one flaw; -2 to attacks you never really plan on using is a trivial penalty for a feat, but I'll allow it. 

Iron ward diamond, armor crystal: 500 gp least, DR 1/- for 10 hp/day; 2k lesser, DR3/- for 30 hp per day.

Crystal of Energy Assault, weapon crystal: 600 gp least, add 1 point of damage of crystal's type; 3k lesser, as lesser but +1d6 instead of +1.

Truedeath crystal, weapon crystal: 1k least, adds +1d6 damage versus undead; 5k lesser, as least + weapon is ghost touch.

Which of the latter two crystals were you thinking of adding to your chain?


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 8, 2008)

Wow after finding the wildling clasp I want to remake the abilities the gauntlet grants. It'd be brilliant to have a black panther running around with this monstrosity attached to its left arm.

Edit: Can armor crystals be added to an item for Arms? I suck at making magic items...


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

So, with the 28 point buy, or die roll, if you rolled, and the dice were unfavorable to me, then I couldn't then go for the point buy, right?


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## Douane (Feb 8, 2008)

> Maximum number of classes = 3; NO EXCEPTIONS!




Is this for starting characters only, or does this mean if I take a level of a PrC, I'll never be able to advance in anything but Ranger, Fighter and the PrC ?


Thanks!


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

Yup. If for some reason you need to dip into four classes over 9 levels, then either

1) Your just trying to cherry pick the best out of the obviously front-loaded classes,

or 

2) Your character concept doesn't fit with the base and prestige classes available

reason 1 is a common powergamer trick and I have to draw the line somewhere or pretty soon it'll escalate into everyone asking me if they can play gestalt characters and then I have to adjust the challenges accordingly and the other players suffer AND spend more time in preparation than I'd like. There are enough power-gamerish options out there already, so I have to set boundaries somewhere, and in my experience this is the simplest for me to adjudicate and still provide the flexibility that the DND multi-class rules encourage.

reason 2 I can work with, pitch a concept for a custom prestige or base class and I'll work on it. If looking to go Bo9s archer, there is a single class option on the internet that may interest you but I don't have time to find it now.

If you are short one feat, consider ONE flaw. I have opened that option up for another PC. This might allow you to drop fighter altogether.

Three classes is a reasonable number for a 9th level character IMO.


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

> So, with the 28 point buy, or die roll, if you rolled, and the dice were unfavorable to me, then I couldn't then go for the point buy, right?




Yes, thats right. Choose which method you want to use before you roll. You're on your honor here to stay balanced. I'm not going to go back to invisible castle and scan the last 100 rolls for your character name, but one of the other players might and they are in their right to do so. I'm not going to because I don't have time to.

Personally, I like the first two options more, because I like playing with mediocre but consistent stats, presumably because I play PCs with MAD.


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

> Wow after finding the wildling clasp I want to remake the abilities the gauntlet grants. It'd be brilliant to have a black panther running around with this monstrosity attached to its left arm.
> 
> Edit: Can armor crystals be added to an item for Arms? I suck at making magic items...




Yes, armor crystals can be added to items for arms assuming they provide an armor bonus i.e. bracers of armor. Your item occupies the glove slot which is technically distinct from the arm slot. I'm going to rule that you can either have the wildling clasp OR an augment crystal but not both attached at any given time. The wildling clasp is arguably very strong for its price, and I like it, the draw back being it limits your options for crystals. You could have a second item with the crystal, but your boon item would not be able to take both.


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

*math error*

Jack of Tales, 

I think you have made an error in your calculations for your boon item. Its +13k to go from +6 armor to +7 armor, not to go from +0 armor to +7 armor, a common confusion with the way they've presented that table in the MIC.

Your boon could have +3 armor bonus for 9k, similar to bracers of armor +3... and you would be able to upgrade it to +4 at the first opportunity by investing 7k.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

Ok, fine tuned my character sheet, adding what items I thought would be appropriate.  When you said that I could remove the Swift Action from the Changeling and Returning properties, did you mean simply the Changeling Properties?  Returning is a free action to catch the weapon beginning of next round.  So, 50% of the Returning and Changeling price, which is 1/2 of 6k, plus 1/2 of 2k, totaling 4k.  Is that right?  I would think that it would be 50% of the property being reduced (Changeling), and if needing to increase that cost, it should be the cost of the magical weapon, without the added magical properties such as Returning, Impaling, etc.  So, 1/2 of 2k (for it's +1 Magical Enhancement), and 1/2 of 2k for Changeling property.

Or is this a House Rule, as I have never encountered this aspect.  It's a nice option, but pricey.  I still think it would be worth it, especially for a Dragon Shaman.  I will be saving up to take advantage of this option for sure!

Added the usual, traveling papers, id papers, darkweave explorers outfit, etc.  Are you allowing, as the norm, a free suit of player's choice?  I took explorer's outfit, as that's his norm.  I only added 100gp for the Darkweave addition, to gain a +1 to hide in shadowy illumination or darkness.


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## Arabesu (Feb 8, 2008)

Fangor, 

Sorry if I was unclear, what I meant about the returning property is an upgrade that makes the weapon return instantaneously, allowing, for example, for you to move after throwing or to throw multiple times in a round. I had forgotten that returning was +1 rather than a flat gold. Let me think on it and I can come up with an improved returning as total of +2, but you'll need something more to make it worth it, like the ability to throw further a limited number of times a day.

Sorry if that was unclear.

Sure, typical explorer's clothes can be free. Royal or noble outfits must be purchased from gold. If you want something cheaper than explorer's gear then take the difference as gold; its not much, but a little somin-somin for the monks.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Fangor,
> 
> Sorry if I was unclear, what I meant about the returning property is an upgrade that makes the weapon return instantaneously, allowing, for example, for you to move after throwing or to throw multiple times in a round. I had forgotten that returning was +1 rather than a flat gold. Let me think on it and I can come up with an improved returning as total of +2, but you'll need something more to make it worth it, like the ability to throw further a limited number of times a day.




No worries.  I was hoping that the Changeling as a swift action could be reduced instead, as that costs a swift action, and having it be a free action would be better suited to his style of fighting.  As for reducing the Returning power to be able to throw more than once a round, it's not really a choice right now, with the BAB of 3, as that won't even come into play until 8th level, when I get BAB 6/1 for that second attack.  I would rather go with the reduction in Changeling to instant.


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## Douane (Feb 8, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Yup. If for some reason you need to dip into four classes over 9 levels, then either
> 
> 1) Your just trying to cherry pick the best out of the obviously front-loaded classes,
> 
> ...



Well, I rather hope it's number two for me. 




> reason 2 I can work with, pitch a concept for a custom prestige or base class and I'll work on it. If looking to go Bo9s archer, there is a single class option on the internet that may interest you but I don't have time to find it now.



Sounds like Hong's Markman Adept to me. Thanks for the offer, but since I don't have the Bo9S, it's really no viable alternative for me.

Unfortunately, with the grandiose total of 1 (!) PrC for archers - and that being one that absolutely doesn't fit (OoBI) - there isn't much to choose from.




> If you are short one feat, consider ONE flaw. I have opened that option up for another PC. This might allow you to drop fighter altogether.



 The thing is, I'm not actually lacking in feat slots, but in feats that offer anything interesting to an archer. (The really interesting options are tied up in PrCs.) And if I forego fighter, I'd be also be missing about the only ways to increase an archer's damage output per arrow (weapon specialization and ranged weapon mastery).


So, in short, I will have to revaluate the concept and ponder if an archer really makes sense.


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 8, 2008)

That stat block won't make a good swordsage so I changed him to fighter. Is their an augment crystal that lets you call your weapon from anywhere for about 1500g? Otherwise I'll probably end up throwing the least undead crystal on it (+1d6 vs undead).


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> That stat block won't make a good swordsage so I changed him to fighter. Is their an augment crystal that lets you call your weapon from anywhere for about 1500g? Otherwise I'll probably end up throwing the least undead crystal on it (+1d6 vs undead).




Lesser Crystal of Return, grants you ability to draw weapon as free action and also to call weapon from up to 30 feet away as move action for 1000 gp.


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 8, 2008)

thanks a bunch  thats what i was looking for.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 8, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> thanks a bunch  thats what i was looking for.



No prob!  I have an electronic copy of the MIC and PHB2, so it helps


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 10, 2008)

did we lose our wizard?


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 10, 2008)

Thanks for the help with that Arabesu, I'll make those changes accordingly. I'm good with leaving off with just a Wildling clasp, it was more of a question then anything else.


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## Arabesu (Feb 10, 2008)

*not huge chain*

Hey Vertexx69, I hope this won't be a problem, but I noticed that you are applying an additional size increase to reach and weapon damage from an enlarged weapon when mountain raging. As per the Races of Stone, pg 150 last sentence, that sound not be the case. All it does is increase space to 10ft, add +5 to natural reach, and apply size penalties to AC and attacks, plus the awesome ability enhancement of +6(!!) and Con and AC penalty. 

Thus your reach will only be 20 feet when raging. Thats still pretty F'n far. You threaten a 50 ft diameter circle. Wow, battlefield control shouldn't be a problem. 

Text for Mountain rage, last sentence pg 150 with regard to the enlargement, "However, he does not gain the additional benefits on weapon size and grapple checks, since he already has them from the powerful build racial trait."

Even without the 25ft reach and 3d6 damage, me thinks you have optimized pretty well for chain fighting. Should be interesting.

One other thing, I assume you are planning to use EITHER large and in charge OR improved trip per AOO, but not both.


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## Arabesu (Feb 10, 2008)

Douane, how about this? Favored enemy generally sucks, instead of your favored enemy bonuses, you can get discretionary points that you can use to boost damage on a round for round basis. You can divide up the points over all your attacks for the round or add them to a single attack.

Additionally, if you aim at a single target for one full round you can double your bonus for that target for the subsequent round. Not a huge bonus to each arrow, but a way to get over the DR hump if you have little else and a nice neat mechanic for taking time and aiming at a target.

Bonus would be 2/round at 1st, 4/round at 5th, 6/round at 10th (or doubled if you aimed on the previous round), but unlike most precision damage, can be applied to any target(s) within the first range increment.

If you want a huge bonus to each arrow, consider a +1, impact bow as your boon. +5 damage is pretty big, and unlike the +7 points you'd get from energy, it would be tripled on a critical.


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 11, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Hey Vertexx69, I hope this won't be a problem, but I noticed that you are applying an additional size increase to reach and weapon damage from an enlarged weapon when mountain raging. As per the Races of Stone, pg 150 last sentence, that sound not be the case. All it does is increase space to 10ft, add +5 to natural reach, and apply size penalties to AC and attacks, plus the awesome ability enhancement of +6(!!) and Con and AC penalty.



The effect would have to increase the size of my gear 1 size as well, otherwise I would tear out of my armor and gear whenever I raged, like a lycanthrope (doesn't make a whole lot of sense).
So I would become large sized with large sized gear. And still have the powerful build feature, since the chain was already large size it goes up to huge. Since it doesn't specifically say your gear doesn't grow with you, like in the lycanthrope description (PHB p.176), it can be deduced that it does.

If none of that sways you to the common sense way of looking at the rules, then I suppose I can drop 1 of his pluses from the weapon to make it "Sizing" and just control it myself.

As far as the size bonuses to trip and grapple etc., those also come with penalties to hide and increased armor check penalties for being a size bigger. The 2 extra strength (normal rage is +4) is really only +1 damage because I get a -1 to hit for going up to large size.

Not trying to whine about it, but just trying to illustrate how everything is balanced. 

They weren't thorough when they wrote the book, any gaps in verbage should revert back to the core rules IMHO. 

For example how only the 2 weapon fighting feat (p.h.b.)mentions anything about critters with more than 2 arms. All subsequent book feats, that apply to two weapon fighting styles, don't say anything about them. But a bit of logic, and the game rolls on. If they had to write every rule out every time, the books would be twice as thick and expensive.

And my character doesn't qualify for the "Large and in Charge" feat as hightower isn't large sized (except when raging for a whole 7 rounds a day   ) I think it's knockdown+improved trip your thinking of. (deal 10+ dmg you get to make a free trip attempt, if they trip follow up with another attack) - that was fun in 3.0


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## Douane (Feb 11, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Douane, how about this? Favored enemy generally sucks, instead of your favored enemy bonuses, you can get discretionary points that you can use to boost damage on a round for round basis. You can divide up the points over all your attacks for the round or add them to a single attack.
> 
> Additionally, if you aim at a single target for one full round you can double your bonus for that target for the subsequent round. Not a huge bonus to each arrow, but a way to get over the DR hump if you have little else and a nice neat mechanic for taking time and aiming at a target.
> 
> ...




Many thanks for the idea, *Arabesu*!

Just to make sure I didn't give the wrong impression: I hadn't gone off to sulk, but went silent while looking for a way to make the archer work. [It's just too good (and creepy  ) a concept to simply cast it aside.] I had set the evening aside for gaming matters but some urgent family matters swiftly killed that plan, thus no recent post from me.


I'll be back today after some sleep (almost 5AM here), but right now my brain is already too dozy and I really don't want to fall asleep on the keyboard (again).   


Thanks!

Folkert


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## Arabesu (Feb 11, 2008)

I interpret all this because of that last sentence that suggests that powerful build and mountain rage don't stack with regard to weapon size. Obviously your armor is going to resize, there is not a balance issue there.

Under your advice, I'll try it the way you suggest, but I am a bit leery as to the balance issue; I'm just having a hard wrapping my head around huge weapons wielded routinely as early as 2nd level.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 11, 2008)

Uh, I hate to interrupt, but I think Arabesu is right.  In the Barbarian Substitution levels section, Page 150 of Races of Stone, Mountain Rage states: 

*When he rages, his size category increases to Large.  (Although his size category increases by one step, the Goliath barbarians height only increases by a foot or so, and his mass only increases by about 30-40%, so his equipment still fits normally.)  This change increases the barbarian's space and reach to 10 feet and applies a -1 penalty on attack rolls and to AC.  However, he does NOT gain additional benefits on weapon size and grapple checks, since he already has them from his powerful build ability.*

So, yeah, you can take Mountain Rage with Goliath, increase to large, but your gear stays the same.  No increase in weapon size or damage dealt due to size increase.  Only Strength increase.  Sorry to step on someone's toes, but I had this idea as well, but then figured it wouldn't work, due to the rules stating so.


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## Arabesu (Feb 12, 2008)

Thanks Fangor, I thought I had remembered it as working that way. 

It seems pretty convincing to me. 

And quite frankly, even without a huge weapon, Hightower is going to be a monster at melee. Mark my word. I especially like that you have the mageslayer feat, I would never have thought to take that feat, but since I've run some the more nasty encounters, I know it will be very useful.

You know I was thinking about it, and it reminds me of the hulk: Sure he rips out of his shirt, but those purple pants he wears just stretch a bit.


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> did we lose our wizard?




Do you guys want or need a Zil Gnome Spellthief?  I can build one.

Alternatively, I have an Elven Wizard good to go.  I just favor the Zil Gnome for RP purposes since it's Eberron Specific.


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 12, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> I especially like that you have the mageslayer feat, I would never have thought to take that feat, but since I've run some the more nasty encounters, I know it will be very useful.



I was tempted to go full out anti-mage with all 3 mage-slayer feats to bypass all magical protection and obscuring spells. But 40ft diameter reach with Improved trip and descent combat reflexes is too much fun. 
And after a long break from D&D, when I started playing again I noticed that every caster does so defensively. So when they try, its a really nasty surprise that they seldom live through. And casting from prone doesn't really work ;p


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## Arabesu (Feb 12, 2008)

Welcome Moritheil,

I can not speak for the players as to which they would choose, but either sounds like it could fit in well with the party at hand. 

I was waiting anyway for Douane who was thinking about playing an archer, so you have a bit of time to work out the bugs.

Arabesu


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 12, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> I was tempted to go full out anti-mage with all 3 mage-slayer feats to bypass all magical protection and obscuring spells. But 40ft diameter reach with Improved trip and descent combat reflexes is too much fun.
> And after a long break from D&D, when I started playing again I noticed that every caster does so defensively. So when they try, its a really nasty surprise that they seldom live through. And casting from prone doesn't really work ;p




You do realize that if you have the Mage Slayer feat, that any spellcaster that you threaten automatically knows that you have it, and that they know they can't cast defensively?  It's in the description of the feat.  I ran into this with my own spiked chain wielding barbarian/fighter in my home game.  Just thought you would like to know.


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> [...] I was waiting anyway for Douane who was thinking about playing an archer, so you have a bit of time to work out the bugs.
> 
> Arabesu




Damn, I'm holding things up again.  Sorry for that but as much as I like gaming, university and work still have to come first, unfortunately.

In my quest for an archer concept I'd been going over the old (and not converted) 3.0 archer PrC _Peerless Archer_ and _Deepwood sniper_ to see if they could possibly turned into adequate 3.5 versions. Still I've been a bit reluctant to suggest those since their 3.0 status. Same goes for the 3.0 "Three arrows for the King" pdf which concentrated on archery. 

I'd also considered a pure fighter build, but that would have killed the wilderness aspect I really wanted to keep.

So I turned to the "Dark side" in my despair and went to WotC's Character optimization boards.  The recommendations ran towards doing things a bit differently than what I had envisioned and go for a Scout/Ranger multi-class. Thus my latest build ran towards a Ranger 1/Scout 4 who uses the Improved skirmish feat to do 1d8+4+2d6 damage after 10 ft. of movement or 1d8+4+4d6 after 20 ft., all-the-while still being able to max some of the wilderness skills.


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

I present Rosapila, Gnome Spellthief Extraordinaire!  I've made some concessions to preserve usefulness where sneak attack immune fights appear (I can only assume that this will happen, as it happens in every campaign and a campaign titled "Eyes of the Lich Queen" doesn't seem to be an exception.    )

[sblock]
CHARACTER NAME : Rosapila
RACE (ECL) : Gnome (+0)
CLASS (LEVEL) : Spellthief 3/Gnome Illu 2
... NET LEVEL : 5
ALIGNMENT : N
SIZE : Medium
SPEED : 30 ft.
TYPE : Humanoid (Gnome)

Rosapila is a dark-haired gnome who wears a dusty rose cloak over dark red or black garments.  She favors innovative solutions to problems, but is not afraid to enter a knock-down, drag-out fight herself.

Rosa, as she is known, is a Zil Gnome.  Her brother was an artificer of no small renown.  Long ago he disappeared, but in keeping with the customs of Zilargo, nobody said anything about it.  Being bright enough to know how things work in Zilargo, Rosa kept quiet, but resolved that one day she would know why.  Searching his workshop, she found his final masterwork - a rapier sized and balanced for a gnome to use.  Since then she has trained with it constantly and keeps it with her as both a reminder of her loss and a tool of her trade.

EXPERIENCE : ?,000
CASH : 260 gp

ABILITY SCORES: 28 Point Buy: 4+6+6+10+0+2
Str 10 (+0) (12/base -2/rac)
Dex 14 (+2) (14/base) 
Con 16 (+3) (14/base 2/rac)
Int 16 (+3) (16/base)
Wis  8 (-1) (8/base)
Cha 10 (+0) (10/base)

SAVES
FORT +5 (1/spt 1/grace 3/con)
REF  +4 (1/spt 1/grace 2/dex)
WILL +6 (3/spt 3/ill 1/grace -1/wis) +2 vs. illu


HIT POINTS : 2d4 +3d6 + 15 = 28
ARMOR CLASS
Standard : 22 (10/base 2/dex 5/armor 4/shield 1/size)
Touch : 13 (10/base 2/dex 1/size)
Flat-Foot : 20 (10/base 5/armor 4/shield 1/size)

*+4 AC vs. giants.

INITIATIVE : +2 (2/dex)
BASE ATTACK : +3
RANGED : +7 (2/dex 1/enh 1/size)
MELEE : +5 (0/str 1/enh 1/size)

WEAPONS
See equipment.

LANGUAGES
Common, Gnome, Draconic, Elven, Giant, Orc.

RACIAL TRAITS
    *  +2 Constitution, -2 Strength.
    * Small: As a Small creature, a gnome gains a +1 size bonus to Armor Class, a +1 size bonus on attack rolls, and a +4 size bonus on Hide checks, but he uses smaller weapons than humans use, and his lifting and carrying limits are three-quarters of those of a Medium character.
    * Gnome base land speed is 20 feet.
    * Low-Light Vision: A gnome can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions of poor illumination. He retains the ability to distinguish color and detail under these conditions.
    * Weapon Familiarity: Gnomes may treat gnome hooked hammers as martial weapons rather than exotic weapons.
    * +2 racial bonus on saving throws against illusions.
    * Add +1 to the Difficulty Class for all saving throws against illusion spells cast by gnomes. This adjustment stacks with those from similar effects.
    * +1 racial bonus on attack rolls against kobolds and goblinoids.
    * +4 dodge bonus to Armor Class against monsters of the giant type. Any time a creature loses its Dexterity bonus (if any) to Armor Class, such as when it’s caught flat-footed, it loses its dodge bonus, too.
    * +2 racial bonus on Listen checks.
    * +2 racial bonus on Craft (alchemy) checks.
    * Automatic Languages: Common and Gnome. Bonus Languages: Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Goblin, and Orc. In addition, a gnome can speak with a burrowing mammal (a badger, fox, rabbit, or the like, see below). This ability is innate to gnomes. See the speak with animals spell description.
    * Spell-Like Abilities: 1/day—speak with animals (burrowing mammal only, duration 1 minute). A gnome with a Charisma score of at least 10 also has the following spell-like abilities: 1/day—dancing lights, ghost sound, prestidigitation. Caster level 1st; save DC 10 + gnome’s Cha modifier + spell level.
    * Favored Class: Bard. A multiclass gnome’s bard class does not count when determining whether he takes an experience point penalty.


CLASS FEATURES
Gnome Illu - barred evocation, conjuration, -1 CL to transmutation
  1. All your Racial Spell-Like abilities are cast at your Wizard CL (instead of at 1st level).
  2. You gain access to some Illusion spells at an earlier level than normal (indicated below):
 0th – Silent Image, Ventriloquism.
 1st – Leomund’s Trap, Minor Image.
 2nd – Illusory Script, Major Image.
 3rd – Illusory Wall.
 4th – Persistent Image.
 5th – Programmed Image.
  3. Choose one of the following School (may not be one of your Prohibited Schools):  Conjuration, Evocation, Transmutation. You cast spells from this School at –1 Caster level. At  1st level, you may not cast spells from this School at all.

Spellthief: ignore light ASF. -1d6 SA: steal spell/effect/resist 10, trapfinding, detect magic, spellgrace +1


FEATS
Cha 1 . Telling Blow (add SA on crit, works with ranged)
Wiz 1 . Scribe Scroll
Cha 3 . Master Spellthief (arcane levels stack for steal spell, casting)
Cha 6 . 
Cha 9 . 
Cha12 . 
Cha15 .
Cha18 .
---------------[ Epic Threshold! ]---------------
Cha21 .
Cha24 .

SKILLS 9*10+2*6 = 102
Balance            +7 (5 ranks 2 dex) Not flat-footed when bal.
Bluff              +8 (8 ranks 0 cha)
Concentration     +12 (8 ranks 4 con)
Craft (alchemy)    +6 (1 ranks 3 int 2 gnome)
Diplomacy          +2 (0 ranks 0 cha 2 bluff)
Disguise           +2 (0 ranks 0 cha 2 bluff)
Escape Artist     +10 (8 ranks 2 dex)
Hide              +10 (8 ranks 2 dex)
Know (Arcana)     +11 (8 ranks 3 int)
Know (Nature)      +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Know (Planes)      +8 (5 ranks 3 int)
Know (Psionics)    +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Know (Religion)    +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Listen             +6 (5 ranks -1 wis 2 gnome)
Move Silently     +10 (8 ranks 2 dex)
Search             +4 (1 ranks 3 int)
Sense Motive       +7 (8 ranks -1 wis)
Speak Language         1 pt
Spellcraft        +13 (8 ranks 3 int 2 ka)
Spot               +4 (5 ranks -1 wis)
Tumble            +10 (8 ranks 2 dex) 150% def bonus AC

98

Tricks: 4 pts
Acrobatic Backstab (enemy flatfooted if you tumble past)
Collector of Stories (+5 know to identify creatures)


EQUIPMENT (total 24640 gp)
Adventurer's Outfit
Pearl of Power I                [1000 gp; recall 1st level spell 1/day]
Mithral Chain Shirt +1          [2100 gp; AC5 6maxdex 0 ACP 10% ASF]
Cold Iron Armor Spikes          [100 gp; 1d6 x2]
+1 Keen Enfeebling Rapier       [20000 gp; 1d4+1 15-20x2, 1d6+2 Str dam on crit; casts L1 shield when drawn]
MW Heavy Crossbow               [350 gp; 1d8 19-20x2, 120']
Bolts, Cold Iron (20)          [4 gp]
Bolts, Regular (60)            [6 gp]
Cold Iron Caltrops x5           [10 gp]
Silk Rope                       [20 gp; 100', +2 use rope, 10 lbs.]
2x Potion of Lesser Vigor      [100 gp; fast healing 1 for 11 rnds]
2x Scroll of Protection from Evil [25 gp, 2 xp]
2x Scroll of Color Spray         [25 gp, 2 xp]

ILLU SPELLS:  6  5+1   
0 - Silent Image x4, touch of fatigue, Ventriloquism
1 - Alarm, Color Spray, Distract Assailant x2, Protection From Evil, Swift Expeditious Retreat

SPELLS KNOWN: -  6
0 - all but conjuration, evocation
1 - Alarm, Charm Person, Color Spray, Distract Assailant, Protection From Evil, Swift Expeditious Retreat

[/sblock]


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 12, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:
			
		

> You do realize that if you have the Mage Slayer feat, that any spellcaster that you threaten automatically knows that you have it, and that they know they can't cast defensively?  It's in the description of the feat.  I ran into this with my own spiked chain wielding barbarian/fighter in my home game.  Just thought you would like to know.



 I don't have access to all the books anymore, just crystalkeep.com which has abbreviated rules. But its ok since they have to be within my threatened range to know.


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

Would you like the full description of the feat? I could copy the text if so.


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 12, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> In my quest for an archer concept I'd been going over the old (and not converted) 3.0 archer PrC _Peerless Archer_ and _Deepwood sniper_ to see if they could possibly turned into adequate 3.5 versions. Still I've been a bit reluctant to suggest those since their 3.0 status. Same goes for the 3.0 "Three arrows for the King" pdf which concentrated on archery.



Warlock is always overlooked as an "archer" class, even though thats precisely what it is. 1 feat and you have a 250ft range with all kinds of nifty extras. If you're totally flabbergasted, theres another option  and they can be of fey origin to keep with your "wilderness" theme.

sure go ahead and post the text.


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

Thanks for the suggestion, I'll look into it!  (Truth be told I usually suck at playing the spell-casting classes and thus I never really looked into Complete Arcane/Mage books; just bought them for the group.)



*Mage Slayer*

_You have studied the ways and weaknesses of spellcasters and can timr your attack and defenses against them expertly._
Benefits: You gain a +1 bonus to Will saves. Spellcasters you threaten may not cast defensively (they automatically fail their concentration checks to do so), but they are aware that they cannot cast defensively while being threatened by character with this feat.
Special: Taking this feat reduces your spellcaster level for all your spells and spell-like abilities by 4.


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Just a reminder - our resident gnome is not going to be a full spellcaster.  Also, I'm afraid a spellthief can't fully replace a rogue with regard to liberating items and bypassing traps.  Just letting you know so it doesn't come as a surprise later. 

We have a druid but that's about it with regard to full casters, insofar as I can tell.  Of course, the Dragon Shaman can also buff/heal.  But we have no Knock spell, no Invisibility, no Detect Invisibility . . .


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

No problems here but I'm probably the wrong person to ask since I play with a RL group consisting of a Rogue, a Ranger and a Fighter/Ranger/Rogue Bard. 



BTW, I noticed a few things on rosalind's sheet:

"Acrobatic Backstack" - She doesn't qualify for the skill feat as it requires 12 ranks of tumble. (Had looked into this myself when I considered a sneak attack-based archer.)

Mithral Chain Shirt +1 [*2100 gp*; AC5 6maxdex 0 ACP 10% ASF] - Costs only 1100 GP.

+1 Keen Enfeebling Rapier [20000 gp; 1d4+1 15-20x2, 1d6+2 Str dam on crit; casts L1 shield when drawn] - Shouldn't this cost 22000 GP ? 18000 for a weapon +3, 4000 for the continuous spell (Spell level 1 x CL 1 x 2000 x 2 ["If the duration of the spell is 1 minute/level, multiply the cost by 2"]) I had also thought about adding a continuous spell but the total cost was a rather prohibitive.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Feb 12, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> Mithral Chain Shirt +1 [*2100 gp*; AC5 6maxdex 0 ACP 10% ASF] - Costs only 1100 GP.




Added 1000gp to grant it +1 AC, magical.  Mithral is 1100 for the item, non magical.


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

Proper reading really does help. 

Thanks, Fangor, I'll better go back to sleep now.


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## Arabesu (Feb 12, 2008)

moritheil, 

Your total gear value should go up to 24,000 total, not 24,640. 

Duoane is right, I'm not sure the boon is calculated correctly. If understand, the shield goes off every time its drawn? So essentially you will always have it, yes? Did you get the "draw to cast shield at L1" from the MIC? If its in there, I'm not familiar with it. 

As it is, your could get it as a 3/day use activated for 4000X3/5 = 2400. Pretty close to what you were aiming for, but you'd need to push a few gold around. I would then let you upgrade it to be any number of times per day at a later date for the difference (in this case 1600). Arguable it would still be under-costed since a +3 buckler would cost 9k, a +2 animated h. shield would cost 16k, and the ring of force shield is 12k (and only a +2). Still, it could be dispelled, only lasts 1 minute, and requires that you draw your weapon to "cast" all of which limit the ability in what I think are interesting ways so I'll allow it at the above prices. One other limitation: If it absorbs a magic missile spell, it is dispelled until redrawn. 

There, done! I'm pretty happy with it.

Also, the gnome illusionist variant is pretty balanced, but I'm unfamiliar with it. Which book is it taken from?

My recollection as to whether the gnome would be a full caster is a little bit fuzzy. I think they will be a bit behind since the Master Spellthief adds the arcane caster level to spell thief spell-like ability caster level I thought. The Master Spellthief feat isn't in the crystalkeep pdf I have, so if you have the time, could you transcribe the text into this thread? Thanks.

The tabletop vesion of EotLQ has a spellthief and its worked out nicely, but they also had swordsage, a scout, and rogue at one point. Talk about stealthy!

I see what you mean regarding the deficiency in disable device/open lock. You'll just have to find and disable traps the old fashioned way; by setting them off   

Good thing you have a barbarian.


----------



## renau1g (Feb 12, 2008)

QUick question, is there still room in this game?


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

I can't speak for the DM, but Arabesu's initial call was for "six to eight 5th level PCs" and we are standing at 5 PCs right now. Thus _I_ would say yes (under the "no DM" caveat, of course).


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 12, 2008)

I can switch around my prepped spells and some money to focus on healing if it is needed.


----------



## renau1g (Feb 12, 2008)

What class would most benefit the group? I'm up for anything...


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## Arabesu (Feb 12, 2008)

Hi renau1g, recruiting is still open.


----------



## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> moritheil,
> 
> Your total gear value should go up to 24,000 total, not 24,640.
> 
> ...




Ah, thanks to both of you for your corrections.  I totally missed the "continuous" price adjustment.  I'll see about pushing some items around, and maybe take masterwork off the crossbow if need be.



> Also, the gnome illusionist variant is pretty balanced, but I'm unfamiliar with it. Which book is it taken from?
> 
> My recollection as to whether the gnome would be a full caster is a little bit fuzzy. I think they will be a bit behind since the Master Spellthief adds the arcane caster level to spell thief spell-like ability caster level I thought. The Master Spellthief feat isn't in the crystalkeep pdf I have, so if you have the time, could you transcribe the text into this thread? Thanks.
> 
> ...




What I meant is that she is not going to have 3rd level spells as she would if she was a 5th-level wizard.  She is a 5th level caster but doesn't have the repertoire; I wanted to point out that we won't be able to rely on fireball for crowd control.  (And in general, she is a trickster, not an artillery piece.)  Didn't want people to look to her as the big guns.

Master Spellthief is from Complete Scoundrel.  

Prerequisite: Steal Spell, ability to cast 2nd-level arcane spells.

Add your Spellthief and other arcane casting levels for the purposes of determining the highest level spell you can steal and for the purposes of determining caster level when you cast an arcane spell.  Also, you now ignore arcane spell failure chance when casting spells cast or stolen from other classes, but only if you are wearing light armor.  You incur the normal arcane spell failure chance when wearing medium or heavy armor or when wearing a shield.

For example, a 4th level spellthief/4th level wizard could steal spells of up to 4th level, as if he were an 8th level spellthief.  He would have a caster level of 8 for both his spellthief spells and his wizard spells.


Gnome Illu is from RoS and is actually on Candlekeep in the "racial base class variants" section (or something like that.)


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## Arabesu (Feb 12, 2008)

Ah, so it works like practiced spellcaster. It is balanced by having higher prerequisites than practiced spellcaster and rather than being general to any spellcasting class is specific to two classes: spellthief and "arcane"-caster.

So even though you cast as a 5th level character you only have access to level 2 spells.

I'm having trouble parsing the text below; does it imply that arcane spell failure is dropped only for stollen spells or stollen spells and the gnome's illusionist spells cast from his repertoire. the latter I'm thinking, but I just want to be sure.

One more thing, technically, you can't qualify for the above feat at 3rd, unless you know of some trick that I don't. Since your character is pretty much done and pretty much revolves around that feat, I'll allow it, but your 6th level feat must be one with prerequisites generally available to 3rd level PCs (i.e. BAB 3 or less, skill ranks 6 or less, ability to cast 2nd level spells etc). Thus I am basically letting you take your 6th level feat earlier under the promise that you'll take your "3rd" level feat later. 

Hopefully none of the other players cry foul. 

I really don't think you PC is broken so it is probably OK.


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> So even though you cast as a 5th level character you only have access to level 2 spells.
> 
> I'm having trouble parsing the text below; does it imply that arcane spell failure is dropped only for stollen spells or stollen spells and the gnome's illusionist spells cast from his repertoire. the latter I'm thinking, but I just want to be sure.




The latter, I believe. ("Cast or stolen from other classes" includes "cast from other classes.")



> One more thing, technically, you can't qualify for the above feat at 3rd, unless you know of some trick that I don't. Since your character is pretty much done and pretty much revolves around that feat, I'll allow it, but your 6th level feat must be one with prerequisites generally available to 3rd level PCs (i.e. BAB 3 or less, skill ranks 6 or less, ability to cast 2nd level spells etc). Thus I am basically letting you take your 6th level feat earlier under the promise that you'll take your "3rd" level feat later.
> 
> Hopefully none of the other players cry foul.
> 
> I really don't think you PC is broken so it is probably OK.




Ack, originally I had Precocious Apprentice (at first level, you know and may cast one 2nd-level spell once per day) but then I dropped it in favor of Telling Blow.  I didn't realize that that would invalidate my other feat choice.  If you want I can go back and put Precocious Apprentice back in.  Being non-human is so hard on feat slots :\


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

Would getting a flaw be a viable option for Rosalinda? Arabesu has so far allowed using one feat-for-flaw exchange per PC.


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> Would getting a flaw be a viable option for Rosalinda? Arabesu has so far allowed using one feat-for-flaw exchange per PC.




Well, removing ranged combat or initiative is no good for a spellthief.  I'll take a look.  I technically don't have to have Telling Blow, as nothing else depends on it; it's just something that makes my meager sneak attack more useful.


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 12, 2008)

We can take a flaw? Wow that would help me out alot...


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

What have I done?

Arabesu has allowed a flaw for Vertexx69 and also for my PC, so I imagine this goes for everyone.


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> What have I done?
> 
> Arabesu has allowed a flaw for Vertexx69 and also for my PC, so I imagine this goes for everyone.




Arms race!  Arms race!    

In all seriousness, I don't think I'll take a flaw.  I don't mind taking Prec App, as it would actually help shift my character's focus over towards casting a bit more.  The feat is here, btw:

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/iw/20041114a

I might move some spells known and skill slots around to be more useful for the party.  I assume this is OK since we haven't started yet.


----------



## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

I can sympathize. I'm anything but crazy about the severe penalties but I really need that extra feat for the current build. Originally I had planned with the melee combat flaw but my focus has changed a bit since and so it is out again. I thus made plans for inventing a new flaw "Brash", giving -4 to bluff and and diplomacy because I won't use them anyway, and would have gotten away with it if not for those meddling kids! 



BTW, as I am currently looking over the skill tricks - have you considered the Conceal Spellcasting one ? Since you already described her as a trickster, it might just fit.


----------



## renau1g (Feb 12, 2008)

So... I'm not familiar with a Dragon Shaman, would they lend themselves to fill a wizards role or a melee role? I'm trying to find the most helpful character.


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

Here's a general overview of the class on Wizards.com (Sorry, best I could find on short notice.):

Dragon Shaman


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## moritheil (Feb 12, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> BTW, as I am currently looking over the skill tricks - have you considered the Conceal Spellcasting one ? Since you already described her as a trickster, it might just fit.




Due to some crazy oversight by WotC, Spellthief doesn't have the requisite skill as an in-class skill.  So I don't qualify.



			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> So... I'm not familiar with a Dragon Shaman, would they lend themselves to fill a wizards role or a melee role? I'm trying to find the most helpful character.




They are like clerics: Frontline warriors with some heal/buff ability.


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## Douane (Feb 12, 2008)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Due to some crazy oversight by WotC, Spellthief doesn't have the requisite skill as an in-class skill.  So I don't qualify.


----------



## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

Last in first out:

Dragon Shaman is intended to be a melee role, although certain gaps in the class prevent them from fulfilling this as the principle melee combatant. For example, they get aura's, but because of the limited range, they presuppose that they are in the thick of things in order to cover both the rogues on the opposite side of an opponent and the clerics and mages a bit behind them. The second rank fighter role is a good one in this regard 

The biggest deficiency I can see is the lack of options when grappled. Rogues and Swashbucklers and Monks get escape artist, Warrior types have good BAB, Clerics and others get freedom of movement, Mages get transportation magic, Druids have Huge/Large sized forms. Dragon Shaman gets none of that. 

I will come back tomorrow with a new aura designed for aiding grappling, just to test it out in this module.


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## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

Spell thieves don't get sleight of hand? Thats almost as odd as rogues not getting weapon proficiency whip. I'm also surprised that the gnome illusionist sub-levels don't get sleight of hand added to class skills; I mean its called prestidigitation!

Feel free to drop any one class skill from the spellthief list in trade for sleight of hand.


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## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

moritheil, your free to make adjustments to your character up until the time you roll initiative that first time. After that, any mistakes or changes are approved through this forum.


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## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Spell thieves don't get sleight of hand? Thats almost as odd as rogues not getting weapon proficiency whip. I'm also surprised that the gnome illusionist sub-levels don't get sleight of hand added to class skills; I mean its called prestidigitation!
> 
> Feel free to drop any one class skill from the spellthief list in trade for sleight of hand.




Yeah, I could scarcely believe it myself.  Thanks!

I'll make the change to Rosa's first-level feat, too.


----------



## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

Don't go too crazy on the flaws. If you take a flaw, expect it to make a difference at some point in the game. Even if you never plan on bluffing or using diplomacy, it will probably come up at some point if you take the flaw. 

Two things about this module:

Creatively, the encounters are nicely varied, even when you fight the forces of "X" the encounters are set up with unusual features for you to take advantage. So you don't feel like your wading through room after nondescript room of "X" times 3 or "X" times 5. For a predominantly hack and slash module, there are still a few encounters designed for role-play and diplomacy. One in particular is critical, success or failure overall isn't absolutely dependent upon success in that particular encounter, but utter failure in that encounter could be   

The module is chockablock full of typos. Really Really poorly edited. So if an encounter doesn't make sense, it might be that I have edited it to make more sense on the fly. Hopefully I will avoid throwing the baby out with bathwater.

I really wish WOTC wouldn't have fired their editors.


----------



## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

I'm going to keep things simple and plan to take Telling Blow at 6th rather than piling on the flaws.

Regarding Disable Device, I tried to fit it in, but there are about 5 skills needed to retain scouting/rearguard capacity, and drawing from those to provide the skill points would pretty much invalidate a large part of the character concept.


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## Douane (Feb 13, 2008)

Quick question: Can we shift magic items around? 

Reason: I'd like to get some of the chronocharms from MIC but instead of the throat location I want them on the head (hair) location as I've become a bit enamored by the style of the shifter braids for this PC.


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 13, 2008)

wow! I don't check the thread for 10 hours and y'all post 40 times, but I'm glad to see expanded interest.

I haven't done "fighter find traps" since 2nd edition ;p and don't plan on it this time (only 37hp) and at the same time I'm not a brick either 20AC (17 when raging). I'm a designated damage dealer and crowd control (up to 4 trips per round anyways).

So we need a super perceptive ninja/rogue type with like a 30AC to walk point and disarm everything. one of the caster types needs a wand of either see invisible or glitterdust

Ok so mages in the threat range of anyone with mage slayer know that "SOMEONE" has it but not specifically who.


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## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> wow! I don't check the thread for 10 hours and y'all post 40 times, but I'm glad to see expanded interest.




Yeah, high time for the RP to begin!    



> I haven't done "fighter find traps" since 2nd edition ;p and don't plan on it this time (only 37hp) and at the same time I'm not a brick either 20AC (17 when raging). I'm a designated damage dealer and crowd control (up to 4 trips per round anyways).
> 
> So we need a super perceptive ninja/rogue type with like a 30AC to walk point and disarm everything. one of the caster types needs a wand of either see invisible or glitterdust




I was actually thinking that our resident summoner could set things off with level 1 summoned critters.   It's an efficient use of a spell slot IMO.



> Ok so mages in the threat range of anyone with mage slayer know that "SOMEONE" has it but not specifically who.




Unless that mage is particularly unfortunate, that narrows it down to a couple people (whoever is threatening them.)



EDIT: Now I have a question.  If I take Telling Blow, and I crit someone, am I entitled to remove my sneak attack damage (per the Spellthief ability) to steal a spell?  I believe the answer is yes since I'm giving up the damage, but I just realized I should check.


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## renau1g (Feb 13, 2008)

Ok I've posted my char... another magical gnome!


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## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Ok I've posted my char... another magical gnome!




Sweet.  If you want to help me tweak mine so it's less pathetic, I welcome your help.

Basically my build has the problem of the spellthief not doing much damage added to the problem of low-level wizards not doing much damage.  I think I can average 4 damage per round assuming that I hit.  Of course the main point of the character is to avoid unneeded combat, but since some combat is inevitable I'm looking at making myself more useful somehow.

I thought about giving up the rapier and making a bow my boon item instead, since with the gnome penalty to strength and low BAB I don't know if I'll be able to hit much in melee.


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## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

Yes, to being able to steal spells off of sneak attacks derived from telling blow.

No, to chronocharms on the head slot, unless you are willing to pay the 1.5 premium for an off-slot item. If you want them to be braids, I think they will need to be slotless items, i.e. at 2x price.

In my experience, at this level most mages and spellthieves act as toolkits rather than artillery. In few levels they start evolving into the latter role, with several slots available for dishing damage. Fighters and barbarians rule the low levels at dealing damage, but so do many of the opponents they go toe to toe with relative to their hp. Later, they slow down the damage output except when power attacking, but rather just become really difficult to kill. 

So don't worry too much about your damage output. You will be aptly rewarded when you steal that improved mirror image spell that has been annoying everyone.   

Summoned critters are in fact very good ways to set off traps, assuming that they don't reset immediately upon triggering. There are some traps in this module that disabling provides a longer reprieve than setting-off.


----------



## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

> I thought about giving up the rapier and making a bow my boon item instead, since with the gnome penalty to strength and low BAB I don't know if I'll be able to hit much in melee.




I would consider taking weapon finesse ASAP to be able to hit more with that rapier, particularly once you dump an ability enhancing item onto dex, which you are liable to do anyway right?


----------



## Douane (Feb 13, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> No, to chronocharms on the head slot, unless you are willing to pay the 1.5 premium for an off-slot item. If you want them to be braids, I think they will need to be slotless items, i.e. at 2x price.




Okay. That's more than I'd be willing to pay for them and thus I will rather toss them entirely.


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## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> I would consider taking weapon finesse ASAP to be able to hit more with that rapier, particularly once you dump an ability enhancing item onto dex, which you are liable to do anyway right?




Rosapila's original build involved Swashbuckler, which would have gotten that for free.  I am not sure if increased potency is better or the ability to function independently is better, in terms of what the team needs.


----------



## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

Personally, I have difficulty dipping into swashbuckler just for a bonus feat. Your better off in the long run sticking to your focused classes and using one of the the feats you get for leveling IMO... or for taking a flaw, although what flaw you'd take seems unclear to me.


----------



## renau1g (Feb 13, 2008)

Any issues with Fenwick?


----------



## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Personally, I have difficulty dipping into swashbuckler just for a bonus feat.




So do I, which is why I abandoned it.  The original build was Swashbuckler 3/Wiz 2 (or perhaps the other way around.)  Not sneaky at all, but much more competent at melee.

We don't need more melee fighters, though, unless I'm much mistaken.  We have a dragon shaman, a druid, and a spiked chain barbarian.


----------



## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

To everyone,

Action points don't carry over from level to level. If you have any left over when you level, they disappear. Action points are calculated as 5 + 1/2 your hit dice + 3 from heroic spirit if you took it. So everyone should have 7 to start the module with and when you level up to 6th you will start that level with 8, except Hightower who will start next level with 7.

renau1g,

Fenwick's sheet said he had 40 action points which is a bit more than you should have. 

Your feat selection seems odd:

I wasn't sure Spellcasting prodigy was in 3.5, if it is I'm sure you took this as your first level feat right?

Maximize spell will require you to use a fourth level spell slot, which you won't get until 8th level as a sorcerer. I'm unclear why you took it now


----------



## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> I wasn't sure Spellcasting prodigy was in 3.5, if it is I'm sure you took this as your first level feat right?




In 3.5 it only gives spell slots (no DC increase.)

Arabesu, I think I'm going to rebuild Rosa as a Beguiler.  As she is, she's basically cross-classing and burning feats to be a sneaky mage, and it seems Beguiler can accomplish that in one class while retaining the core character concept.

PS: Can we start with NO action points and full hit points?


----------



## renau1g (Feb 13, 2008)

I've never played a sorceror, I thought meta-magic feats only increased casting times for spontaneous casters. Apparently I need to read up further. I'll adjust the DC's of the spells though. I might play around with the feats then.


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## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> I've never played a sorceror, I thought meta-magic feats only increased casting times for spontaneous casters. Apparently I need to read up further. I'll adjust the DC's of the spells though. I might play around with the feats then.




It still requires higher level slots.

Sudden Maximize can get around that, but it's only useful 1/day and it doesn't become good until you get fireball or a similar crowd-control spell.


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## renau1g (Feb 13, 2008)

Thanks! I've changed my feats around to Improved Initiative & Brew Potion. I've also put some ranks in UMD so if we get going and need healing I can attempt to use a curing wand if the group wants to buy one. Although Rosa might be a better option depending on how Moritheil puts his skills.


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## Arabesu (Feb 13, 2008)

> PS: Can we start with NO action points and full hit points?




Alas, using up your action points in this manner only affects the current hit die you are rolling so if you started out with no action points you could have

Max (i.e. elite die) + 1/2 max round up + 1/2 max round down + 1/2 max round up + max

Considering that your guaranteed average hp to start, you may wish to hang onto those action points until you get to know how fierce the challenges are expected to be.


----------



## moritheil (Feb 13, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Considering that your guaranteed average hp to start, you may wish to hang onto those action points until you get to know how fierce the challenges are expected to be.




Well, I was thinking if you'd let us take max hit points for all our levels, it would be worth it.  For only one level, it doesn't seem worth it.

OK, my beguiler is mostly done.  It DOES feature trapfinding and disabling and is better at sneaking around.


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## renau1g (Feb 14, 2008)

Good stuff, I look forward to this.


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## moritheil (Feb 14, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Good stuff, I look forward to this.




Thanks for the vote of confidence.  I hope we have enough damage.

EDIT: I think I have a more thematic boon item.


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## Arabesu (Feb 14, 2008)

*go or no-go?*

The "in character" thread is here.

This is your go or no-go for launch. Roll an initiative and post it to say you are ready.

Douane, buddy, I know you have revamped your character but this is your kick in the butt. I'm interested in seeing what you can do here and since I'm in the cthulhu game with you as well I'm willing to cut you some slack. But tomorrow night I hope to see at least a first draft of your character sheet. 

I should also point out, that there are some obviously very clever people in this game. 

I see a number of tricky spells and effects in various sheets that are probably RAW ok, but are obviously heavily optimized and/or in some cases borderline broken. Thats cool, I'm a bit of a power-gamer myself so I'm totally cool pushing the envelope: this isn't EN world living eberron where every PC detail has to get approved or every marginally broken spell gets banned, its my own "creation" so it doesn't have to be totally balanced. However, you are warned that any funky tricks you intend to pull can also be used by the bad guys. If you aren't cool with that now, you might want to look over some of the other characters and make sure that if you went up against a spell or feat used by another PC that you would be OK with it. 

I'm not trying to treat you like children, I just want everyone to be on the same page. 

Its all about having fun after all, and so above all I want EVERYBODY to have fun. See you over in the IC thread.


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## moritheil (Feb 14, 2008)

Arabesu, I have a new boon item that is used verbatim out of a book and costs 22k; I assume it's OK.  Right now I'm just trying to figure out my last feat slot.

EDIT: Okay, I found a good thematic way to tie it all together.  I took Shadow Weave, which ties in really well with the story of the umbral collar.  Dancing lights, mage armor, and glitterdust will suffer, but I think the story is more cohesive.

For teammates, Rosa now does the following:
Combat Control Caster
Scout/Trap duty
Face (if nobody else will . . . Cha +0 but has skills)

Rosa does not do:
UMD
damage


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## renau1g (Feb 14, 2008)

I removed my flaw... pretty cheap looking over it, I'll never expect to go in melee so a penalty to it isn't really a flaw. Removed brew potion as well.


----------



## Jack of Tales (Feb 14, 2008)

After looking over the flaws I had added inattentive (or whatever it is that gives a -4 to spot and listen) less for the feat and more because I liked the idea of an easily distracted druid. But Reau1g's poor rolls make mine look good *glare* I'm supposed to be the distracted one lol


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## renau1g (Feb 14, 2008)

Yeah, I know... damn my poor luck (I should've been a halfling). I mean all of the rolls were below 5, pure terrible. Hopefully I make it up on attack rolls though, I mean I can't always roll that bad, can I?


----------



## moritheil (Feb 14, 2008)

Heh, just don't roll any 1s.  I hope the opening combat isn't full-on brutality, but we'll see.   

Just realized that my mage armor comment was erroneous.  Shadow Weave doesn't interfere at all with conjurations.  So, if any of our resident anthropomorphics would like mage armor, let me know.


----------



## renau1g (Feb 14, 2008)

And if our resident rogue-ish character wants some invisibility, let me know. BTW do you get sneak attack dmg?


----------



## Vertexx69 (Feb 14, 2008)

Hightower travels with his chain slung around his body and his tower shield in hand (since he can drop the shield and draw the chain with the same free action).


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## moritheil (Feb 14, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> And if our resident rogue-ish character wants some invisibility, let me know. BTW do you get sneak attack dmg?




I'll let you know if I run out!   

No sneak attack in the present build, but what I get against flat-footed characters is still pretty nice (increased save DCs.)   

PS: Fangor, you rock!



			
				Fangor the Fierce said:
			
		

> (Senses Aura, everyone add +2 to Spot, Listen and Initiative checks)




Ara, will you include this for us in your calculations?


----------



## Douane (Feb 14, 2008)

Will try to post PC if the boards start to work again. (23rd attempt to post this)


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## moritheil (Feb 15, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> Will try to post PC if the boards start to work again. (23rd attempt to post this)




Ouch.  No luck?


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## Arabesu (Feb 15, 2008)

Generally I will assume that you try to stay clustered within a 30 ft radius of Faris, but dispersed enough that to avoid fireball hitting all of you. Thus unless you specifically want to be further away, such as to scout more stealthily, then yes, I and you will assume those three bonuses. If you want to stay closer together, back-to-back, Pitch-Black style, then please specify. In this first encounter I made some guesses, but I think it is a pretty natural arrangement.


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## moritheil (Feb 15, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> In this first encounter I made some guesses, but I think it is a pretty natural arrangement.




Oh yes, no complaints, as I find that a natural layout for jungle trekking.  I'm sure if this had not been a fight I would have specified if I were going further to scout alone, or something.


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## Douane (Feb 15, 2008)

We are slowly getting better. 

PC is up. (15 attempts + another 17 to post to this thread)


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## Arabesu (Feb 15, 2008)

Looks pretty good, one correction



> Comp. Longbow Rapid Shot +9/+9 to hit, 1d8+3 (slashing/piercing) +1d6 (acid) / 1d8+2 (slashing/piercing) +1d6 (acid), 20 x3, 110' ranged,




should be 



> Comp. Longbow Rapid Shot *+7/+7* to hit, 1d8+3 (slashing/piercing) +1d6 (acid) / 1d8+2 (slashing/piercing) +1d6 (acid), 20 x3, 110' ranged,




emphasis mine.

Go ahead and roll an initiative, you'll not be in the first round but can come in on the second.


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## Arabesu (Feb 15, 2008)

You don't seem to have picked favored enemies yet.

In addition to the bonus damage I proposed earlier... 

You could choose as one of them anyone who would do harm to the natural world. Sort of a militant environmentalist, with anyone associated with your lover's murder as another option...


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## Douane (Feb 15, 2008)

Corrected, thanks! (Originally he had the WF feat. When I threw that out and reset the to hit numbers I somehow went up instead of down in that instance.)


Initiative only, or the full range you specified in post 1 ?


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## renau1g (Feb 15, 2008)

Please stand near me, with Hightower gone...I feel so lonely & exposed...


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## Douane (Feb 15, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> You don't seem to have picked favored enemies yet.
> 
> In addition to the bonus damage I proposed earlier...
> 
> You could choose as one of them anyone who would do harm to the natural world. Sort of a militant environmentalist, with anyone associated with your lover's murder as another option...




Oops! Yes, I put that choice off till I had finished the rest and then promptly forgot about it. 

_
"with anyone associated with your lover's murder as another option..."_

That's exactly what I had in mind. I have to admit, though, that I didn't really spend much thought on their identity yet - partly because of my rather slim Eberron knowledge and partly as possible tie-in for the adventure. (I just knew it couldn't be aberrations because he'd never left the Towering Wood otherwise.) Would you have any suggestions? Thanks!


_"You could choose as one of them anyone who would do harm to the natural world. Sort of a militant environmentalist [...]"_

I thought along the same line and initially considered Undead as a potential choice, due to them essentially being the counterpart to the Fey's wild lust for life. Thoughts?


Thanks,

Folkert


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## moritheil (Feb 15, 2008)

Douane, I took a look at your sheet.  You certainly have an interesting concept.

I wanted to ask you how you obtained your skill points.  I believe you should get Nymph's Kiss and Scout at level 1 since it makes absolutely no difference what order you take your levels in (and later feats are not an issue.)

30+40+8 is what you have listed.

From scout levels: 11 per level (8 + 1 int + 1 hum + 1 NK) * 8 (4+3) = 88
From ranger levels: (6 + 1 int + 1 hum + 1 NK) = 9

Total 97.  You have listed 78.


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## Douane (Feb 15, 2008)

Thanks for the kinds words, moritheil!

Starting with the original idea (Dryad Bow) I tried to include some of the unique Eberron flavour plus ideas from the classic Fey tales * and it sort of fell just into place. I hope it makes for an interesting character (and game).

* plus some - I almost too ashamed to admit - _Green Arrow_



About those skill points: Yup, you caught me there.  The numbers come the previous calculation when he was a bit dumber (11 instead of the 12 now) but I finally succumbed to improving the acrobat side of Saris with points in balance and thus switched Cha and Int around. (And you are of course correct about taking Scout and NK at level 1 - it was the encounter with the Dryad after all that started him down his career path.)

I am afraid, though, I'll have to "correct" a tiny part of your math a bit (after counting my spent skill points three times and coming to three different results!  ). "From scout levels: 11 per level (8 + 1 int + 1 hum + 1 NK) * *8 (4+3)* = 88" Somehow that 8 must have slipped in but it should be only 7, resulting in a 77 scout skills points plus 9 from ranger for a total of 86 skill points I have indeed spent: 82 on skills +4 for skill tricks.


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## Douane (Feb 15, 2008)

Oh, and I wanted to apologize for mis-calling your PC "Rosapila" several times in this thread as "Rosalinda". I don't really know how that got into my mind but I was convinced it was the right name and never bothered to check. Sorry for that!


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## renau1g (Feb 15, 2008)

BTW ... Don't be ashamed the Green Arrow Rocks! I mean he brought a bow & arrow against people that had super strength, could shoot lasers & fly. He must've been one tough dude. 

P.S. Nice work on the bow... I love the concept.


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## Arabesu (Feb 15, 2008)

> "with anyone associated with your lover's murder as another option..."
> 
> That's exactly what I had in mind. I have to admit, though, that I didn't really spend much thought on their identity yet - partly because of my rather slim Eberron knowledge and partly as possible tie-in for the adventure. (I just knew it couldn't be aberrations because he'd never left the Towering Wood otherwise.) Would you have any suggestions? Thanks!




You strongly believe that your lover was killed and her tree was chopped down by Emerald Claw soldiers since you found a fragment of an Emerald Claw tabbard on nearby branch. You could choose "Emerald Claw" as one of your favored enemies.


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## moritheil (Feb 15, 2008)

No need to apologize     I'm glad if I helped.  Enemy undead seems to make sense, but I don't know where you want to take your story.

EDIT: Well, it seems we're a very aggressive group.  This should be good.


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## moritheil (Feb 16, 2008)

I've got to say that this jungle setup really moderates the pace of combat.  I'm so used to two parties running into each other in an open field of fire and 75% of combatants being dead or out in the first two rounds.


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 16, 2008)

Yea no one has much maneuverability. Btw, I'm in Ireland so my posts will usually be either very early in the morning for Americans or early afternoon.


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## moritheil (Feb 16, 2008)

Not a problem   

Nice damage rolls!  We may be able to wrap this up soon.  I think the 20' of obscuring mist presents our third archer enemy with an interesting choice - he probably can only move 15' while sneaking about, so he has the choice of either spending a turn moving, then moving and shooting (and not hiding), or spending two turns moving and one turn sniping.  By then his compatriots should be dealt with.  Given that I cast the mist from a distance of one square gap, he will be out after one turn of sneaking (unless he guesses the direction poorly), but at that point his LOS will still be cut off by the main body of the cloud.

EDIT: I checked the hide rules.  He can snipe as part of a ranged attack, but takes a -20 to hide.  So that means I'm only eating one round of his time, if he's confident in his hide check.  Oh well.


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 16, 2008)

Unless of course after seeing two of his lieutenant hit and almost taken down he chooses to run!


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## moritheil (Feb 16, 2008)

Jack of Tales said:
			
		

> Unless of course after seeing two of his lieutenant hit and almost taken down he chooses to run!




He's not seeing anything, remember?   

Admittedly, Rosa doesn't know the specifics of how the fight is going either, once the mist goes up, but the logic is that if we have more numbers, tying up one of the enemy while tying up one of ours so that the rest of the party can kill the others is a winning trade.


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## moritheil (Feb 17, 2008)

Not to double-post, but Vertexx, doesn't mage bane only work against arcanists?


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## Douane (Feb 17, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> OOC - The OOC sub-block in my post states reasons and questions for my current AC and to hit as well as damage potential (lvl4 rangers are spellcasters etc.).



 Not arcane ones, though, so Magebane wouldn't effect them anyway, right?


[EDIT] Duh! Ninja'd by moritheil.


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## renau1g (Feb 17, 2008)

moritheil said:
			
		

> He's not seeing anything, remember?
> 
> Admittedly, Rosa doesn't know the specifics of how the fight is going either, once the mist goes up, but the logic is that if we have more numbers, tying up one of the enemy while tying up one of ours so that the rest of the party can kill the others is a winning trade.





Fenwick's in the same situation. He can't see things, but figure'd a ghost sound might tie up at least one of them to allow his companions to take out the other. If they're still kicking maybe he'll shoot a Magic Missile, which isn't affected by their concealment.


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## moritheil (Feb 17, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Fenwick's in the same situation. He can't see things, but figure'd a ghost sound might tie up at least one of them to allow his companions to take out the other. If they're still kicking maybe he'll shoot a Magic Missile, which isn't affected by their concealment.




Yes; that comment in Gnomish was for his benefit on the off chance that he can't understand Draconic.  It was a very good idea.



			
				Douane said:
			
		

> Ninja'd by moritheil.



Just filling my role


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## moritheil (Feb 17, 2008)

Well, it looks like it's gone bottoms up for getting out of this one without alerting the lizardfolk as a whole.  I imagine we'll have a quick debate about what to do after we wrap this up.

EDIT: Good grief, don't feel afraid to post your thoughts, people!   :\   I can't possibly be the only one who looks at how a battle is going!


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## renau1g (Feb 18, 2008)

Yes I think stealth might not be our ally after this...


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## Douane (Feb 18, 2008)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Good grief, don't feel afraid to post your thoughts, people!   :\   I can't possibly be the only one who looks at how a battle is going!




What if we don't have anything important to add?  


Seriously, it's good to see we have so many tactically-minded chacters (and players) but Saris won't be one of them. He acts and fights on instinct.


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## moritheil (Feb 18, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> What if we don't have anything important to add?
> 
> 
> Seriously, it's good to see we have so many tactically-minded chacters (and players) but Saris won't be one of them. He acts and fights on instinct.




Int 18, just trying to keep myself in the mindset   

Since presumably we all know one another already, I'm going to go back and look at char descriptions - not for physical descriptions, but for personalities.


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## Douane (Feb 18, 2008)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Int 18, just trying to keep myself in the mindset
> 
> Since presumably we all know one another already, I'm going to go back and look at char descriptions - not for physical descriptions, but for personalities.




Personality? Saris doesn't have any.  In fact, if CHA is indeed measuring one's force of personality Rosapila should probably be talking to his bow, instead.


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 18, 2008)

We can have one of the stealthy characters see if the failed ambush alerts any other lizardfolk. If not we may still be able to maintain some level of stealth. I don't want the entire tribe swarming down on us!


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## moritheil (Feb 18, 2008)

Jack of Tales said:
			
		

> We can have one of the stealthy characters see if the failed ambush alerts any other lizardfolk. If not we may still be able to maintain some level of stealth. I don't want the entire tribe swarming down on us!




Oh, I have spells for the situation.  I'm just not sure we're going to have enough time left to use them properly.   :\


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## renau1g (Feb 18, 2008)

Maybe we can make a tactical retreat? Re-Group and sneak back?


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## moritheil (Feb 18, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Maybe we can make a tactical retreat? Re-Group and sneak back?




The way I played Rosa, she considered but discarded the idea.

This was due to:
1. the difficulty of communicating with allies without letting the enemy know
2. the certainty that we would be pursued by the enemies if we fell back (based on what she could hear)
3. the fact that we should be able to kill these guys (since we outnumber them) and have fewer enemies to worry about later.

In a worst-case scenario we'd be fleeing from an army of lizardmen, in which case we'd be reduced to engaging individual patrols to deplete their numbers, then fleeing.  Which is pretty much what we're doing now.  Only, if we win, the enemy won't know if there are 2 of us or 200.

(For an int 18 tactical mage, this is probably crude thinking, but that's what you get when she's making quick decisions in the middle of combat.    )


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## Douane (Feb 19, 2008)

I'm losing track a bit. Where are we now? Round 2? (After Saris got in on round 1 ?)


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## renau1g (Feb 19, 2008)

I believe we just concluded round 2 as Fenwick & Rosa had very low init. I think it might be Saris' turn now as we move back to the top of initiative.

Also, Fenwick doesn't speak draconic, ironically, but he does speak elven. Good call Moritheil.


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## moritheil (Feb 19, 2008)

Douane said:
			
		

> I'm losing track a bit. Where are we now? Round 2? (After Saris got in on round 1 ?)






			
				Arabesu said:
			
		

> Saris 25
> Faris init 19
> Hightower init 16
> The others (still out of sight until they go...) init 15
> ...




Rosa and Fenwick just went (Rosa has acted 3 times: once in surprise, round 1, and now round 2.)  The rattlesnake is dead.  Thus, round 3 begins.



			
				renau1g said:
			
		

> Also, Fenwick doesn't speak draconic, ironically, but he does speak elven. Good call Moritheil.




Thanks.  In general, I guess whoever speaks a language should shout out things based on what they hear in a situation like this.  That bit of Gnomish was for Fenwick, of course.


Incidentally, I think it hilarious that Fenwick's idea is to scare off the archers, but Rosa, fearing they will return with an army, wants the opposite.  Too bad she's silenced right now!


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## renau1g (Feb 19, 2008)

The ironic part is that Fenwick was concerned about the number of enemies as he only saw one, but heard (assumption) his friends getting hurt... tactically unsound as it was he was concerned we're all surrounded. Hopefully that's not the case, if so things will be much more interesting


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## Arabesu (Feb 19, 2008)

Neat. The amount of chatter in this thread is somehow reassuring. It tells me that you guys are paying attention/having an OK time.


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## Arabesu (Feb 19, 2008)

[sblock=Jack of Tales ONLY!]I was looking over your character and I realized there was a problem. The strength bonus from you gauntlet and the strength bonus from druidic shapeshifting don't stack since they are both enhancement bonuses; I guess I figured that you realized that and just wanted the same strength whether shapeshifting or not. Also, you have undercosted the +4 bonus to strength from your boon; it should be 16k not 8k. Between the two problems, we will need to redo your boon. For example you could get +2 to dex and have the 4k for something else or could get a +2 deflection instead.

I figured all this out because I noticed that you have the same attack modifier as an optimized fighter when shifting. That seemed strong for a full caster without any buffing spells cast, and when I went back and looked over you character sheet I found the problem. I have a good feel for benchmarks as to what should be expected for your level, and a shapeshifting druid should have an attack modifier around 1.5 to 1.7 time hit-dice, whereas you were 2.0 times hit dice.[/sblock]


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 19, 2008)

Is this campaign set on Xen'drik? 

Is this lizardman wearing armor? Its wielding a bow so its not using a shield, And if it had Full concealment (50%) then Hightower wouldn't be able to target it with a melee attack at all. (just wondering how my 22 missed)   

If its wearing hide or better then its speed is reduced to the same as mine (and I can actually catch it) otherwise I'll have to do something else since he can't charge across difficult terrain.


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## Arabesu (Feb 19, 2008)

Lightly armored, but dextrous, buckler, small sized and with some natural. 

Also, jungle and cover combined (+6) to make it hard to hit him with ranged attacks or with reach-weapons when he is behind cover. 

Normally they move 30; you don't know this of course, but his half speed means he can move 15/round through the jungle terrain. With a double move, you can be almost right on top of him, i.e. 10 feet away, which means that its pretty much over for him, unless he has tumble, he wouldn't even be able to withdraw without provoking AoO. 

None of you asked for knowledge nature or knowledge local checks to evaluate their capabilities so I have only given the obvious details.

Jungle, not in Xendrick, so that should limit the choices somewhat. After this encounter and a follow up encounter we will flashback to why you are where you are and what your mission entails. 

I wanted to jump right into a fight, 1) to let you try-on the PCs to see if there is anything that just doesn't work, where your weakness are etc. 2) to give everybody a chance to post, letting me know how fast people respond, and 3) to provide a framework for setting up your out of combat encounters: This way I won't really have to rail-road you. You know that eventually you have to go from a to b, HOW you get from a to b is all your guys' game.


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 19, 2008)

Made the change from +4 str to +2 dex, don't feel like figuring out what to do with another 4k so just forgetting it's there.


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## renau1g (Feb 19, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> None of you asked for knowledge nature or knowledge local checks to evaluate their capabilities so I have only given the obvious details.




Curse my lack of knowledge! 

BTW I am enjoying it so far... it's frustrating in the jungle with concealment, etc., but it's much more interesting than a 10 x 10' room, and the group seems to be an interesting collection of individuals, only thing we could benefit from is some improved teamwork..


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## Jack of Tales (Feb 19, 2008)

I considered making a knowledge check but..*shrug* They're scaly things with bows. Didn't think I'd need to know much more. But now that you mention it, it'd be nice to know what kind of groups they gather in. Should I make that check here or in IC thread?

Teamwork? What you don't think running in different directions and uncoordinating against a surprise attack has no teamwork in it? Pfft.. Okay so maybe we need some work. Trent and Rosa seemed to be doing fine with support though! I didn't want to waste any of my spells this early on.


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## Arabesu (Feb 19, 2008)

Jack, edit your most recent action over in the IC thread to include a knowledge check. Also, since all you did was basically move, you get a small circumstance bonus to the check since you can take the time (i.e. a standard action) to really think, consider, evaluate, and assess the capabilities of the creatures. that house rule will go for the rest of the campaign: take a standard to do your knowledge check and you get a small bonus, otherwise its a free action.


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## moritheil (Feb 19, 2008)

Hmm . . .

I just looked at my sheet to see what my Knowledge (local) modifier is, and it says: 1 rank + 3 int.  But I have 19 int.  Also, other int-based skills seem to have used 3 for some reason.  Search lists +10 (7 ranks 3 int).

It looks like some of my skill mods should be a little higher than they are listed.   :\

Edit: fixed.


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## renau1g (Feb 22, 2008)

So... do we just wait until the mist is done?


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## moritheil (Feb 22, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> So... do we just wait until the mist is done?




As I understand it he's popping in and out of the mist.  So everyone should ready actions to nail him when he pops out again . . . since if he stays in the mist he's just guaranteed to stay silenced and to be surrounded and slain as soon as the mist fades.


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## GammaPaladin (Feb 22, 2008)

Are you guys still recruiting? I couldn't tell from the thread, and I'm jonesing for an Eberron game.

(It's probably spelled out somewhere and I'm just not seeing it because it's 2AM, so I apologize for asking in advance).


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## Vertexx69 (Feb 22, 2008)

Is anyone opposed to giving other party members just a little time to respond to posts, before we move everything along at lightning speed? 

I don't think we have any mindless brutes in the party, so the option of tactics shouldn't be automatically ruled out.


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## Arabesu (Feb 22, 2008)

> Are you guys still recruiting? I couldn't tell from the thread, and I'm jonesing for an Eberron game.
> 
> (It's probably spelled out somewhere and I'm just not seeing it because it's 2AM, so I apologize for asking in advance).




Why don't you roll up a character as an alternate. If a spot opens up then you can get it. I'm finding it hard to give 6 players each full attention anyway, particularly since we have different post times. So if one of the other players drops or has a PC death then you'd be in.



> Is anyone opposed to giving other party members just a little time to respond to posts, before we move everything along at lightning speed?




Would you like for me to impose some kind of schedule? I tend to not like them, but I don't know of a better way to slow things down except to just hope that everyone adheres.


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## moritheil (Feb 22, 2008)

I'm just trying to move things along on the KOed guy.  If I get a few votes that we need to get rid of him so he doesn't bring the wrath of an army down on our heads, we'll get rid of him.


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## moritheil (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, at least combat 2 was fast.  Both of our mages pulling out all stops probably helped.    

Arabesu, feel free to let me know if I appear to be setting up something that just won't work (i.e. trying to RP a conversation about KOed enemy disposal when a combat is imminent and we won't get to have said conversation.)


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## Arabesu (Feb 29, 2008)

Well, it worked out fine didn't it. But NOW might be the time for discussing your two prisoners. After you "deal" with your prisoners, whatever that means, then I might do the flashback to tell you guys what your doing.


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## renau1g (Feb 29, 2008)

Sorry to Duoane, I was going to be away from my computer after that post until now and just didn't to hold up the combat, thought I'd throw my actions out there.

I didn't mean to skip you're turn.


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## Douane (Feb 29, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Sorry to Duoane, I was going to be away from my computer after that post until now and just didn't to hold up the combat, thought I'd throw my actions out there.
> 
> I didn't mean to skip you're turn.




Hey, *renau1g*, you have absolutely nothing to apologize for!  We had already established that posting in order of initiative just isn't feasible with a PbP, with different timezones and all the other RL constraints, so there's no problem at all! 

That really wasn't a "Meh, damn all those who posted before me!" but a "Meh, reloading the page could have saved you the trouble of writing up a post, deleting it because it didn't fit what you had in mind and then rewriting it totally again."


Folkert


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## moritheil (Mar 3, 2008)

Btw, I never posted my XP amount.  If someone wants to tell me before XP gets awarded I'll tweak my sheet.  It doesn't actually affect play, so I haven't been scrambling to correct it.


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## Vertexx69 (Mar 13, 2008)

Would we be able to purchase lvl1 martial scripts? Since it says that a stance can be placed on  them, would the stance last for the "1 hour" that it states the "maneuver" can be held as "readied"?


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## Arabesu (Mar 13, 2008)

There are two ways to do this:

1) if initiated outside of combat, you get access to the stance for 1 hour, but only for as long as you remain in the stance. Once you leave it for any reason you loose it. There are involuntary ways to lose a stance; being tripped, stunned, or paralyzed among them. 

2) if initiated during an encounter, i.e. in combat time, I'll say that you get it for the full encounter even if you lose it temporarily. So you could reinitiate it if needed.

My impression is that they intended the scripts to be a single encounter power rather than a full dungeon power; 1 hour is often more than enough to clear a level or run through 4-5 encounters.

You can certainly purchase 1st level scripts without problems. I thought that you need a martial lore check to read them though... did Hightower think to purchase martial lore cross class?


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## Vertexx69 (Mar 15, 2008)

I like the sound of that. You only need a martial lore check if you can't read the alphabet that the script is written in. But being that we are in Sharn, he should be able to find some written in common. 

And as I plan to spend the rest of Hightower's career gaining lvls in warblade, I was wondering if it was cool if he had an ancient scroll, written in his native tounge, that he has been studying for some time on the theories of the warblade. He wouldn't gain any powers from it, only the ability to become a warblade next lvl?


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## moritheil (Mar 15, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Well, it worked out fine didn't it. But NOW might be the time for discussing your two prisoners. After you "deal" with your prisoners, whatever that means, then I might do the flashback to tell you guys what your doing.




So we'll deal with our prisoners soon, or is the flashback still ongoing?


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## Arabesu (Mar 17, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> I like the sound of that. You only need a martial lore check if you can't read the alphabet that the script is written in. But being that we are in Sharn, he should be able to find some written in common.
> 
> And as I plan to spend the rest of Hightower's career gaining lvls in warblade, I was wondering if it was cool if he had an ancient scroll, written in his native tounge, that he has been studying for some time on the theories of the warblade. He wouldn't gain any powers from it, only the ability to become a warblade next lvl?




Sure, but that means you'll be done taking classes since I capped this campaign at 3 different classes. So you wouldn't be able to take any prestige classes.



> So we'll deal with our prisoners soon, or is the flashback still ongoing?




You have one encounter on the way, i.e. as part of the flashback. Unless you do something unexpected, it shouldn't use any significant resources. So yes we are still in flashback. A role call or some indicator that everyone has made last minute purchases might be nice. I'll put some more text up tomorrow whether or not everyone has posted in mean time.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Mar 17, 2008)

I'm done with my purchases.  How hard would it be though, to get a potion of Cure light Wounds?  Would I need a roll?


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## Arabesu (Mar 17, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:
			
		

> I'm done with my purchases.  How hard would it be though, to get a potion of Cure light Wounds?  Would I need a roll?




1st level anything requires no roll. Anything higher and I'll need a gather info check.


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## Jack of Tales (Mar 22, 2008)

I've been away for the past week and will be leaving again in a few days for a month. So I am sorry to say that I won't be able to continue the game. I'm really sorry and hope I don't piss anyone off by withdrawing. I simply can't pass up traveling so far and long for such a low price.

Arabesu, the way you ran the flashback for a pre-made adventure made it alot more interesting and I like your style. Hopefully when I return I could play a game with you. 

Good luck guys!


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 2, 2008)

Did this game die as well? What are we waiting for?


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## Arabesu (Apr 2, 2008)

Um... you're waiting on your lazy GM. 

Work hit me last week and I thought I would get something up last night, but my wife distracted me with Venture Bros.

I'll try to get something up tonight or this afternoon.


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## renau1g (Apr 3, 2008)

Venture Bros. are pretty great, can't be too upset with you


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## moritheil (Apr 4, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Did this game die as well? What are we waiting for?




Hi, I'm initiating a social interaction, since that's what Rosa does.  Sorry if this causes a bit more waiting, but we need information on what we're heading into.   

Arabesu, I don't mind it if you just summarize the result of the interaction.  I have no idea if this elder lizardfolk is going to resist the charm spell or not, but Rosa is pretty confident in her abilities.  Between that and the money she has a good pretext for him to spill the beans on anything he knows about the area and whatever it was that he fought recently.


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## renau1g (Apr 8, 2008)

Moritheil, I was just playing Fenwick out, I'm not really too concerned about the relic. Also, if we follow his suggestion, somehow I don't think the original IC thread would work...


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## moritheil (Apr 9, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> Moritheil, I was just playing Fenwick out, I'm not really too concerned about the relic. Also, if we follow his suggestion, somehow I don't think the original IC thread would work...




I can think of ways it would work, though as things stand I fully expect the party to whisper amongst ourselves and then say, "Sorry, no, we can't get caught up in foreign wars."


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## Arabesu (Apr 10, 2008)

There is no reason that the IC thread won't work if you chose to return the spear to them. 

Nor any reason that the IC thread won't work you chose NOT to. 

What it comes down to at this point, is do you think that the information he might provide would be worth the loss of the relic from you party treasure or the time required to find and return it. 

Or if you even WANT to help this group; perhaps he has annoyed you to the point that you don't want to help him. You could attack them and take their stuff at this point and it would have little impact upon the main thread except that you wouldn't get the info unless you cast _speak with dead._ Which I guess you can't do since you have no cleric.


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## Shayuri (Apr 10, 2008)

Heya. Is there an alt list for this game?

Seems interesting so far.


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## renau1g (Apr 10, 2008)

I don't have an issue helping them for info. I don't really need a spear and I don't think the others in the group do either. Might be worth it to know what's coming ahead?

My thoughts.


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## Arabesu (Apr 10, 2008)

Shayuri,

I am definitely interested in alternates.

At least two people have been so quiet lately that I suspect they may have lost interest, so there is a good possibility that you would get inserted.

I think the info for PC generation is at the beginning of this thread, check my sig for the rogues gallery to give you a sense of the other characters.


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## Shayuri (Apr 10, 2008)

Thankee sir. I'll take a peek.


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## renau1g (Apr 15, 2008)

So...is this still going on? I know that Rosa, Hightower, & Fenwick have posted actions recently, Trent also. Jack of Tales is out for a little while longer (She was gone for a month I think)


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## Shayuri (Apr 15, 2008)

Hmm...

Could I get a list of who's active in the group? So I know the niche-sitch?


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## Arabesu (Apr 15, 2008)

I'm waiting on a consensus with the lizardfolk shaman. Hightower wants to go, the others don't, but Trent hasn't checked in and given an opinion. Nor has Saris. As said below, Faris is out for a while probably. That means that there are five of you to vote or come to a consensus or force a decision, so there is no chance for a tie unless Jack comes back. 

I don't want to force you one or the other so I'll just wait; Either way I am ready to go. 

Shyuri, here is a summary of the group...

Jack of Tales - Faris Ravenblood, F Shifter Shapeshifter.........................Inactive for a bit
Fangor the Fierce - Trent, M Human Copper Dragon Shaman...................Semi-active
Douane - Saris, M Human Scout/Ranger..............................................Semi-active
Vertexx69 - Hightower Razorshard, M Goliath Barbarian/Fighter..............Active
moritheil - Rosapila, F Whisper Gnome Beguiler...................................Active
renau1g - Fenwick Cobwinkle, M Gnome Sorceror.................................Active


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## Fangor the Fierce (Apr 15, 2008)

Trent said it's up to Rosa, as he said if there was a spear to take, he wouldn't mind going for it.  But he's leaving it up to the others.  I posted...


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 15, 2008)

I really want an active game, I don't much care if it's action or intrigue as long as it moves. Waiting up to a week between posts isn't an active game, so I took it upon myself to give it a kick in the preverbial pants. Hightower doesn't care whether or not we choose to help as long as we get it going.


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## moritheil (Apr 17, 2008)

I think you were right; it was starting to take a while.

I don't even know if Rosa would spend a spell on this uncooperative prisoner.  We might just have to knock him out or execute him and move on.  Rosa's a firm neutral so while not liking executions she would do it out of pragmatism . . . I don't know how others stand.


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 17, 2008)

I think hightower is the only good character in the group, and being as hes a barbarian/chaotic/was poisoned his view is clear. ;p


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## Shayuri (Apr 17, 2008)

Hmm

An interesting mix you have right now.

Let me ask this, are there any specific "niches" that the group definitely feels the pinch of lacking? Divine casting, for example, or melee/ranged combat? Right now I'm considering artificer, warlock, druid... I have several ideas and any suggestions to help narrow the field will help me get a viable character out faster...


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 17, 2008)

A bit more healing couldn't hurt. Even if it wasn't a complete healer build Or a solid tank/meat shield. Hightower is a striker/dmg dealer as opposed to a someone who can take the hits. hehe how many games are you in right now shayuri? I've seen you in every recruiting thread for the last month  When are you gonna run a game?


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## Shayuri (Apr 17, 2008)

Hee. I couldn't possibly. I'm in too many games. 

A brick or a healer, eh? Hmmm...normally I'd say 'bing!' Paladin. But...I am reluctant to play a paladin.

Still, that does help focus my thoughts.

Thanks!


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## renau1g (Apr 17, 2008)

Actually Divine Casting is a bit light too I think? Only a Druid w/Shapeshifter variant.


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## moritheil (Apr 20, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> OOC-The thing about a game world to remember is that you have to leave the 21st century morality at the door.




While you are right in that not all societies adhere to modern Western concepts of ethics or justice, I'm really not sure your demand that we _as people_ learn to ignore our morality is appropriate.  Better to remind everyone that it is up to what our _characters_ would do, think, or feel.

Rosa is a city-dweller from what amounts to an Orwellian police state, something that cannot exist historically without advanced technology (or magic.)  She may be accustomed to not protesting torture.  As for the other characters, why not let them decide?


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 24, 2008)

@ Ren Hightower's speed is only 20' as well, since hes in full plate.


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## moritheil (Apr 26, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> When are you gonna run a game?




Oh yeah, I second Vertexx's stroke of genius.  I'd really like to see what a Shayuri game would be like.

Derailment aside, Shayuri, have you considered the Crusader from Bo9S?  It works very differently from a paladin both RP-wise and mechanically.  It can pull healing duty at low levels (though it tends to lag behind at higher levels.)


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## Shayuri (Apr 26, 2008)

Mew. I hadn't.

I didn't realize Bo9S was included. I'm used to most games leaving it out. 

I'll take a peek...though I suspect we'll need more healing than a secondary healer can dish out. Is the player of the druid still playing? I could always bring in a healer-druid.


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## moritheil (Apr 26, 2008)

Under the SRD rules it lists "emulating a feat you don't have" as a possible use for action points.  (http://www.d20srd.org/srd/variant/adventuring/actionpoints.htm) 

Is it possible for Rosa to spend action points to emulate the feat Resist Poison (PGF)?  It grants a +4 bonus against poison saves.  I have grave doubts about her ability to make fort saves.


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## Arabesu (Apr 26, 2008)

I'm using the Eberron action points and I'm not familiar with the action point system you are referring to so at first glance I am generally disinclined to use it. Some of the alternate ways to use action points at the SRD seem very strong, and I'm not sure that the challenges are calibrated correctly to take that into account. I've already opened up a whole lot of alternate material, after a while it gets too difficult for me to keep track and make adjustments to scale each encounter appropriately.

FYI they are calibrated to keep you well up to your neck in danger, typically ELs are 1 to 3 levels above you, but that is designed to get your group from 5th to 9th or 10th in only 46 encounters, rather than the typical 70 to 80 balanced encounters for a party of 6.

So yes, its designed to be scary. Some of the challenges are downright unfair. Those that are I have fixed. I hope. This one is very tough but I have faith that you will get through it OK, although you will probably be bloodied quite a bit. Your already off to a good start.

I will give you a hint, you are expected to rest after taking out the poison dusk and blackscale camp and before entering the portico of the temple. So I'd throw everything you got at these guys as far as daily resources go. Particularly the guy who just shot Rosa. There is an alternate encounter that you can do, but I wouldn't recommend it under your current shape.

Shayuri, no pressure or rush, but it would be best for your character to show up within the next few fights at the latest. Also, I have no problem with the Bo9S, there are bad guys in this module that are straight out of the Bo9S so it would be pretty uncool for me not to encourage your group to dip into it.

Crusader is a very nice option considering the party's strengths and weaknesses.


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## Arabesu (Apr 26, 2008)

The player for the druid, Jack of Tales, is on hiatus. I think she is backpacking across the Pyrenees or something equally exciting. I don't really know for sure. She specifically suggested I NPC her druid, Faris Ravenblood.

Shayuri, I think it would be cool for you to run her character for this fight, just to get you involved, and it makes me feel less guilty about bringing her in if the group needs help.

Are you interested? See the rogue's gallery for her character sheet. I don't believe she has cast a single spell, relying much more on her shapeshifting. Fenwick has cast mage-armor on her which nets her a +1 to her AC.

I have know idea what happened to Douane/Saris' player. Running that character as a temp PC would be fine with me, unless/until he shows up...


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## moritheil (Apr 27, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> I'm using the Eberron action points and I'm not familiar with the action point system you are referring to so at first glance I am generally disinclined to use it. Some of the alternate ways to use action points at the SRD seem very strong, and I'm not sure that the challenges are calibrated correctly to take that into account. I've already opened up a whole lot of alternate material, after a while it gets too difficult for me to keep track and make adjustments to scale each encounter appropriately.
> 
> FYI they are calibrated to keep you well up to your neck in danger, typically ELs are 1 to 3 levels above you, but that is designed to get your group from 5th to 9th or 10th in only 46 encounters, rather than the typical 70 to 80 balanced encounters for a party of 6.
> 
> ...




I'm not familiar with Eberron's AP system and thought perhaps that was it.  Sorry for the discrepancy.  Can you tell me what benefit comes from spending AP on a save?  I'm prepared to spend the APs, I just don't know what happens


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 27, 2008)

Using an AP adds 1d6 to any d20 roll at our lvl. You can also use them to activate a class ability an extra time in a day or auto-stabalize when at negative HP. That's it for Eberron.


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## renau1g (Apr 27, 2008)

Eberron Campaign Setting said:
			
		

> When you spend an action point, you add the result of a roll of a d6 to your d20 roll to help you meet or exceed the target number for the roll.




Hope that helps.


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## Arabesu (Apr 27, 2008)

OOC: 







> I'm assuming the Lieutenant got a new chance to detect Rosa because of glitterdust's visible spell effect, and he rolled Spot to beat her Hide . . . since her use of the skill trick for this combat means that people do not notice her act of casting.




OOC: I read that skill trick, conceal spellcasting, and I interpreted it as disguising the somatic and verbal components of spellcasting as other activities, singing or taunting or wooing or dancing, rather than eliminating them altogether for no cost. I think the most powerful aspect of that trick is the elimination of the AOO. Thats huge.

So Rosa still has to make some noise and motions. And yes the obvious visual display and the alarm from the blinded lizardfolk also cued him in. The lieutenant had a much better check once he opted to not take ten and got lucky.


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## moritheil (Apr 27, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> OOC:
> 
> OOC: I read that skill trick, conceal spellcasting, and I interpreted it as disguising the somatic and verbal components of spellcasting as other activities, singing or taunting or wooing or dancing, rather than eliminating them altogether for no cost. I think the most powerful aspect of that trick is the elimination of the AOO. Thats huge.
> 
> So Rosa still has to make some noise and motions. And yes the obvious visual display and the alarm from the blinded lizardfolk also cued him in. The lieutenant had a much better check once he opted to not take ten and got lucky.




Oh, ok.  That makes sense.  Regarding my interpretation, I did figure he just rolled well.


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## moritheil (Apr 27, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Using an AP adds 1d6 to any d20 roll at our lvl. You can also use them to activate a class ability an extra time in a day or auto-stabalize when at negative HP. That's it for Eberron.




So, the first few uses from the SRD page; just not all of them.  Thanks!


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## Arabesu (Apr 28, 2008)

moritheil said:
			
		

> Oh, ok.  That makes sense.  Regarding my interpretation, I did figure he just rolled well.




Nat twenty if I recall. Too bad they can't roll that well on their saves. +7 reflex save and he rolls a 2 versus the grease spell. Bah.

And the lieutenant is a pretty good spotter, since he has a bonus feat, the one that adds +2 to spot and survival, can't recall from where, in place of an animal companion (which Schubert, Hitchcock, and Logue didn't stat out as part of their ongoing effort to annoy me with omissions and typos). OOps! did I just give away his level? I think he has a +16 modifier to his track roll if he had assistance from his mooks. So its pretty important that you take him out if you don't want to get waked up in the middle of the night.


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## Vertexx69 (Apr 28, 2008)

I don't mind if we are using the 3.0 rules for cover (which is where there was "light cover") as it would help me immeasurable more than it would help you, as I could use my tower shield to gain 9/10ths cover for +10 cover bonus to AC. Unfortunately we can only use 1 or the other


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## Shayuri (Apr 29, 2008)

Mew.

I'm having a scad of trouble coming up with something I like that hasn't been done. 

I'm not really liking Crusader mechanics. Normally, when I play a healer sort, it's a druid...but you've already got one. Not to mention, keeping up with other games is proving more of a handful than I thought it'd be.

I think I'm gonna have to withdraw from this. No good concepts are coming, time is running out, and even if I did come up with something, there's a good chance I'd be in over my head. I am sorry.


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## Arabesu (May 2, 2008)

I just wanted to point out that re-charging a class ability with action points costs two rather than the one that is need to add +1d6's to rolls or fast-infuse.

There are also feats that are powered by, and give bonus, action points.



Lastely, I wanted to point out to Vertexx69 that he should take his turn. Charging oponnents who are tripped loose their action. So I am basically waiting on his turn before I resolve the opponent's actions for the next round.


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## moritheil (May 3, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Nat twenty if I recall. Too bad they can't roll that well on their saves. +7 reflex save and he rolls a 2 versus the grease spell. Bah.
> 
> And the lieutenant is a pretty good spotter, since he has a bonus feat, the one that adds +2 to spot and survival, can't recall from where, in place of an animal companion (which Schubert, Hitchcock, and Logue didn't stat out as part of their ongoing effort to annoy me with omissions and typos). OOps! did I just give away his level? I think he has a +16 modifier to his track roll if he had assistance from his mooks. So its pretty important that you take him out if you don't want to get waked up in the middle of the night.




Anyone able to spot the sneakiest person in our group (which Rosa believes is her) and injure the melee bruiser (Hightower) is definitely someone who has Rosa worried.  If she were calmer, Rosa would probably tell Trent to kill him anyway, but as it is she's just reacting in the middle of combat.


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## Arabesu (May 6, 2008)

*know of any games recruiting? Psionics & Eberron allowed?*

Hey Gang,

I'm having a good time running this, but in addition to doing this I thought it might be nice to play from the other side of the screen as it were from time to time.

So if any of you know of any games recruiting players, please forward them to me. I had been signed up for a couple of other games, but they seemed to have fallen through. I looked over in thread for recruiting games, and I noticed a couple, but none would allow the specific PC I was hoping to try out:

Yorgon Stoutskull, Shifter Wilder, with the RoEb racial substitution (6th level+, 8th level would be ideal, but higher/epic would be fine).

___________________________________________________________________________

Also, I have seen Faris's player, Jack of Tales, posting on the boards but she hasn't checked in here and from my impression of her posts she is switching solely over to 4th edition.

So. I plan on retiring the druid at the earliest oportunity. I don't like running many NPCs because _that's just not the way I roll._

Also, Duouane has not checked in a month. I give him a week and Saris will get retired as well. 

If you guys feel this is unfair then let me know, but fewer mouths to feed means more experience for the rest of you. We are still recruiting, but they should be frequent posters ideally to keep the game moving.
____________________________________________________________________________

Shayuri,

Eek, I didn't mean to scare you away. The deadline is pretty far off still and if I retire the above druid, then the possibility of running your own druid could work nicely. Heck, if you built a druid and named them Faris, I wouldn't even have to figure out a way to get your character to the game.   

I know you're a frequent poster so I'm keenly interested in accommodating and getting you into the game...


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## Shayuri (May 6, 2008)

Agh! Flattery! The source of my only weakness!

I will take another look, sir. I do like the idea of an established game that has some longevity behind it. New PBP's seem to be very hit-and-miss affairs.


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## moritheil (May 8, 2008)

You know, I'm impressed with the number of times we've been taking prisoners instead of just killing everything that moves - especially given that this is not an campaign full of Exalted PCs.


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## Arabesu (May 8, 2008)

Well, you are a 3/4-good party on the universal good-ometer.

Also, I try to run the NPCs as I would my PC character. That is, those that want to survive will try to hang on even if it is not the most "optimized" thing to do in an encounter. So when they get in single digits they are going to either surrender or play dead or whatever is appropriate to their skill set. The religious zealots that MUST be killed or they will gnaw and curse and fight, come later. 

That and I wanted to give you more healing options, but not yet, i.e. you probably should rest before entering the temple proper, hence the spent belt.

Since I have the time to do so, I'm trying to give a depth of personality to these guys, even unnamed NPCs. Verdin is my creation, as it seemed odd to have this independent group of guards and sentries with no one coordinating them just hanging out outside the temple. There are also details to the various factions in and around the temple that I am enhancing to try to bring depth to the story. You skipped the other group's story so I enhanced this group's.

Lastly, I always found it annoying that with the leadership feat you would like to be able to attract followers and cohorts from within the cast of characters, but normally the friendly NPCs are teh suck. His borderline indifference means that with the right coaxing he could be a cohort to one of you if you pushed the right buttons, and his effectiveness as a combatant means that he wouldn't be an onerous piece-of-baggage-useless-hanger-on type.


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## Shayuri (May 8, 2008)

Thoughts I've been kicking around:

1) A Khorvaire elf druid from Eldeen. Probably not a shapeshifter variant.
2) Valenar elf swordsage with enough AC to be a credible 'tank.'
3) Argonessen barbarian/sorceror with ambitions towards dragon disciplery. Also a brick.
4) Kobold cleric! Might worship a "draconic" manifestation of a god, or just worship a dragon he believes is a god or something. Benelovent dragon though...if there are any.  Not sure if this idea really works in Eberron...


Two tanks, and two healers...  I've also considered Favored Soul, but the dual caster attribute is a real turn-off...

Anything leap out as being especially good or bad for this game?


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## Arabesu (May 8, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> 4) Kobold cleric! Might worship a "draconic" manifestation of a god, or just worship a dragon he believes is a god or something. Benelovent dragon though...if there are any.  Not sure if this idea really works in Eberron...




You could worship Syberis. 

Kyber, also known as the dragon below, was an evil-fiend-dragon whereas Syberis, the dragon above, is the embodiment of draconic-ness with a tendency toward goodness. Eberron is the dragon betwixt heaven and (deep)earth, and now represents the spirit of the (surface)land and the people that populate it. 

Also there are many dragons in Argonessen that could be worshipped. So if you had a Bahamut-worshiping build, we could just sub Syberis for Bahamut with only minor mods needed.


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## Shayuri (May 8, 2008)

Hmm! Siberys, yes...that could be cool... Dragonshard holy symbol. Heee

What domains would Siberys have?

Also, I don't have my Ebberon book handy where I am. Are Ebberon kobolds more or less the same as standard D&D kobolds, culturally?


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## Vertexx69 (May 8, 2008)

moritheil said:
			
		

> You know, I'm impressed with the number of times we've been taking prisoners instead of just killing everything that moves - especially given that this is not an campaign full of Exalted PCs.



Well, never underestimate the value of a decent bit of info.


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## Arabesu (May 8, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hmm! Siberys, yes...that could be cool... Dragonshard holy symbol. Heee
> 
> What domains would Siberys have?
> 
> Also, I don't have my Ebberon book handy where I am. Are Ebberon kobolds more or less the same as standard D&D kobolds, culturally?




See this article for a good description of Eberronic kobolds
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ebds/20050321a

If you wanted an upgraded ECL+1 kobold (with weak winged flight and better abilities) we might be able to come up with something. Other than the irsvern, they will be mechanistically identical to core kobolds.

As to domains, Eberron is fairly flexible. Off the top of my head I'd say scalykind (with modifications), good, law, and sun, but that is still open to revision. What domains were you hoping for?


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## Shayuri (May 8, 2008)

Didn't really have preconceptions. Wasn't sure if there were established domains or not.

Air might be a good one...good spells, though the granted isn't all that.

Ya know, a sorceror/Favored soul aiming for Mystic Theurge might be more appropos for a kobold too. HMM. I will give it thought. Theurgy has two spellstats no matter what, so it wouldn't be any worse than a sorc/cleric...or a sorc/druid...

Hee...

As for koboldry, perhaps I could use material from Races of the Dragon? Lots of good expansions on kobolds in there, including feats that can grant wings (though not right away) and so on.


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## Arabesu (May 8, 2008)

You are right, air does seem more appropriate than scalykind, so Air, Good, Law, Sun it is.

I think Races of the Dragon is fine, but I have some vague memory of something specific that was somewhat broken from that book. Can't remember exactly what feat or combo it was, so just try to use your best judgement. 

Theurgy is cool, but it will be few levels before your character really comes into their own with the split casting. Thats just my opinion. YMMV obviously. The group is pretty strong in battlefield control, with glitterdust, sorceror evocation spells, and a breath weapon. Not to mention the 15ft/20ft spiked chain. So the arcane part of the theurge is less vital than the divine/healer part; but ultimately who can say "no" to extra magic missiles, right?

FYI it will be very easy for me to get a draconically themed character into the mission, so I like some of the ways you are heading.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

LOOT!!!

I wouldn't mind one of those amulets of Nat Armor +1.  All the other items are too small, or too large... nothing 'just right', lol.  Would I be able to wield the small MW composite Longbows?  -2 to hit for size difference, right?  Still pretty good considering that would grant me a 1d4+2dmg on hits with it.  Since we have plenty of arrows now...


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

Fangor,

Healing belt operates with a range of touch. 

Thus you don't need to take it off and have another put it back on. One issue about the charged items is that they all renew at the same time and renewing charges requires them to be used or worn at the time of recharge (generally this is the case, witchlight reservoir is an exception, but a pretty crummy augment crystal so its no big deal). Thus, having more belts than you have people in the party is wasted, unless you want to spend multiple days recharging. Since you have two right now, this is not a concern, but carrying twenty healing belts around is not a good replacement for having a cleric. Also, don't forget the +2 bonus to heal checks.

Yes, you can use size inappropriate longbows at a penalty. I think you are correct, it is a -2. I will check though.

As to your character's comment in the IC thread regarding Verdin's long term cooperation. I will only have him stick around if you (or someone else) want him for a cohort. Otherwise he will try to leave at the first opportunity. So if you think you want him as cohort, or a hireling, then confirm your intentions here so that we have no misunderstanding.

If you wish to hire him as a guide, using the DMG rules for obtaining hirelings, you will have to make some checks to convince him. Scouting is arguably the most dangerous profession for an NPC in a dungeon so he would probably require some pretty hefty wages to ensure his continued assistance. Your discussion in the IC thread will give you a bonus so keep it up if interested. If you want to commit to taking him as a cohort then no checks are needed; they are implicitly satisfied by the feat.


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

Houserule: resizing items through craft...

I generally find the size rules somewhat limiting when it comes to treasure time, but understand the the verisimilitude issue. Here are two house rules to help.

1) resizing armor. Magical (not just masterwork) armor or shields can resize one category to fit specific wearers. Generally most magical armor or shield are manufactured to medium or occasionally small specifications. Most large opponents actually wear medium armor resized to fit them since its much cheaper. Body plan does not adjust so don't expect to wear that horse's barding. I am implementing this mainly so that medium and small pc's can use each other's gear at high levels. Resizing takes 8 hours of putting parts on, letting them adjust, and moving then on to the next component. Armor taken off, doesn't resize immediately but instead requires a command word, i.e. "relax," or after 24 hours time. Armor or shields resized to a size different from their true size seems to be under visible strain indicating that it will resize soon and preventing unscrupulous individuals from trying to dupe merchants by resizing a medium suit to large for the premium price.

2) mundane or magical weapons with similarity (mass shape and general use) to a weapon of different size category can be converted to the other size category with the craft skill. This skill can be thought of as a retrofit of the item for the new user, i.e. lengthening or thickening the handle, tightening the bow string etc. This costs the absolute value of the difference in gold. I will adjudicate if a trained skill check or tools are required, as well as which weapons are easily convertible on a case-by-case basis, so ask if you want to do this. The later is generally obvious though: a small longspear can be converted to a medium spear, a small longbow can be converted to medium short bow, etc.

For example a small sized longsword can be converted to a medium sized short sword with a craft check or checks able to earn 5 gp, with a consumption of 1.66 gp of raw materials.  In this case, with a standard DC 15 weaponsmithing requirement, it would take a minimum of about 2 and a half days but faster with a better check result. The conversion for masterwork versions of the above two items is more difficult, requiring a DC 20 check, but as a result may actually be faster for one who knows what they are doing since the difference in price is still only 5 gp.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

Ah, range of touch, NICE!  Didn't know that.  In that case, I would gladly use the belt to heal up Rosa as needed.  As for the scout, here's what I see as using him might be an option:

Hireling as Mercenary Leader is 6sp per day, for a 2nd level warrior.  This is one of the highest on the list, so it should be ok to assume that this entry would work for this guy.  Secondly, there is a line that for each level past 2nd that this guy has, you add 3 more sp per day.  So, L3 Scout costs 9sp, L4 Scout costs 12sp, L5 costs 15sp.  

Since this guy is an option for a cohort, I would have to assume that his level is no higher than L3, as that is the highest level available.  Cohorts have to be no higher than 2 levels lower than the character with the Leadership Feat.  Or this guy could be L4, and once we get to L6, he stays at L4 as a cohort option.

I don't mind dishing out 9sp for this guy to stick around per day.  Hence the reason I kept 100gp in stash, in case we needed some bribery funds and such.  Looks like it might turn out well.

I haven't really planned out the future of this guy, in regards to feat advancement, as I like to do that stuff during the game, as the character grows.  His actions mold his options on leveling, to me.  If he's got a knack for it, he might want to try out the Leadership feat, considering the fact that we just lost two characters from no posting.  

Anyone else have any comments on this?  I would like to look into having him as a cohort as an option.  I will pay him for now, to see how he does.  If he lives by the time we get to Level 6, then perhaps he'll earn the chance to get to be a cohort,


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

You are pretty confident it will cost more than 9 sp per day unless you do very well on your diplomacy check. Let me look at the table, give it some thought and come back. If you return his gear to him then he might be more amenable to the cost you propose, but that still seems low.

He is level 4 right now, FYI. So if he doesn't advance then he will be level appropriate for a Lvl6 PC's cohort.

Level 6 is the earliest you may take leadership anyway.

Let me put it this way, at your current rate, after resting it will be two, maybe three DAYs in game before you level. :O Unless you do one encounter and rest, one encounter and rest, etc. So at that rate he will only earn 2 gold for helping you clear a dungeon level. You should at least offer him a 1/9 (i.e. a half share) of any treasure if you really want him to stick around.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

I figured those rates were skewed anyways.  I propose more of a rate per job quote.  Say, 25gp for helping them complete their mission, with the chance for bonus depending on the outcome/aid offered.  So, it would be base 20-25gp that Trent would offer for his services while in this area, and then there would be a chance for greater reward should he prove worthy of it.

Yes, I knew Leadership was Lvl 6 feat, hence the reason I stated it would not be feasible until another level for any of us to have that option.  But, I like this concept, of having available npc's as possible cohorts, depending on diplomatic outcomes.  Besides, should I take the Leadership feat, then his funds would more than likely be coming out of my share, wouldn't they?

How do you handle cohorts?  I have seen it where the DM simply allows the cohort to level up when the 'leader' character levels up, to stay within that 2 level gap at all times.  Others stick to the xp guide for cohorts.  

How are funds distributed as well?  Some DM's make the 'leader' character equip the cohort out of their own funds, while others might allow a percentage of the treasure to go to the cohorts.  

Leveling in about 3 days game time is pretty quick, but I am sure that we'll have to earn that increase in level.  These encounters have had the possibilities to be pretty hard, but I think we've had some good luck.  That might run out with two characters wandering off into the wilderness now and seemingly lost to the jungles.  Leadership would help out the group, as I don't intend to be leaving this game at all!


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

Ok, the fees I found were from the DMG and I think there is another rating chart for Eberron.  Although, there aren't any associated with simply a scout.  I do see that the Dragonmarked (LEAST) can be a hireling, costing 12gp per day.  Does this guy qualify for that, hence the higher rate?


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## renau1g (May 9, 2008)

Hmmm... Leadership would be great! I just know many DM's avoid it, two PC's can slow things down sometimes, but so far I think things are moving along well enough.


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

I did some math. 

He has 4 levels in a PC class. Per the epic level rules he would be appropriate as if he were a 7 level NPC classed follower (i.e. a 7th level warrior). He knows he is going into a situation far above his level where each of you face peril, let alone him with his meager 4d8 hit dice, and this "danger pay" imparts a doubling. He also suspects that this will be a short term assignment rather than a long term commission, which should double his fee again. Soooo... 

3 sp X 7 X 2 X 2 = 8.4 gp per day. If the mission involves three days then that would be...

Huh. 

I guess we come up with the same answer. 25 gp would be a reasonable number to ask him to help you scout the temple. Good guess.

You have to work it out with the rest of the group how you want to do treasure. Also, he would be a pretty crummy cohort if he doesn't get his gear back.


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

Leadership can be both a boon and a curse. If you let the player roll up and craft the NPC then it tends to lead to power creap. Almost a doubling of the PC power for only an investment of one feat since the player will over optimize the heck out of the cohort. As a player I have fallen for this tantelizing fruit in our STAP game.

If you instead have the DM craft the cohort, then that puts the responsibility on them to come up with something cool and fun. And that can be almost as much work as a week of posting sometimes. So all of a sudden you have a bunch of stuff to do.

So drawing cohorts from existing cast seems the best option. The player knows more or less what they are getting, and the DM doesn't have to do that much to throw the cohort together. And it makes sense with the story.

Anyway, I think it can be a boon to a PBP game because when a player has time to post he can post both characters' action. I.e. there is actually less of a lag time between posts since the extra character is posted at the same time as the main character.

So there will be a few cases where I encourage you to pick up one or two cohort to pad the group and this is one of them. However, I still want to keep the total number of bodies low. Eight at the most. Right now we would be at 5 plus whatever Shayuri comes up with. So thats cool.


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## moritheil (May 9, 2008)

I think Rosa can scout just fine if she gets healed up.  Verdin is the only NPC to have spotted her so far, so she has a decent track record.  If we hired him it would probably be as an archer and a tracker.  That's still dangerous, but no longer wildly dangerous.

Regarding the items, Rosa will probably want at least one cure moderate potion, two if other people don't want theirs.



			
				Arabesu said:
			
		

> I think Races of the Dragon is fine, but I have some vague memory of something specific that was somewhat broken from that book. Can't remember exactly what feat or combo it was, so just try to use your best judgement.




Some trick involving Venerable and dragon ages.  Since you can make a kobold into a dragon, that kobold could grow to be super-old relative to humanoids.  The abuse comes when you do it at level 1 and claim stat bonuses.  To date I have never seen a DM allow that.


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## Shayuri (May 9, 2008)

Oh oh, right. Dragonwrought kobolds get age bonuses but not penalties.

Wasn't even something I was considering, but I suppose it's technically possible by RAW.

Bleh.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

I wouldn't mind the leadership feat, but that's up to everyone else to hash out, as I don't want to step on toes.  I figure whomever has the best character for it would be better suited, of course.  

As for the healing, Trent will Heal Rosa up, yet keeping the belt to himself.  He does, however, hand her the pair of potions, as if he needs healing, he has the belt on himself.  Rosa could do with the potions better than him.

For the scout, I wouldn't mind paying the 25gp to keep him around for a little while.  If he proves hardy enough, then cohort possibilities will arise.  Until then, Trent's taking it one day at a time...


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## renau1g (May 9, 2008)

I don't think you're stepping on toes Fangor, I'm thinking for 25gp it's worth it as well, as for a cut of the treasure, he's a level below us so maybe a 1/2 share (and we put the other 1/2 into a party fund, for wands of healing?)  of course that assumes we'd continue adventuring past this adventure, not sure the DM's intentions. I know Arabesu you were looking to try out a druid character, I am considering running a game on here, long term module (either Red Hand of Doom, or an AP). If I decide to I think you've got that spot no problem, I'll probably decide in the next week or so.


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

renau1g,

Not a shifter druid, a shifter wilder. I.e. the psionic class. I want to be forthwith as I know many are anti-psionics. I tried the shifter druid in another thread that died, then decided to move it into one of my home games. Rogarth is now fighting goblins in the Pathfinder #1—Rise of the Runelords Chapter 1: "Burnt Offerings" (OGL).

Yorgan is completely new. 

I like the idea of a psionic healer, and noticing that shifter wilder's get some of the egoist powers thought I would "play the cleric," but with powers of the mind as the powersource. Woooo (waves fingers to indicate mystery). Plus, the wilder class can be fun.

Red Hand of Doom sounds intriguing.


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## renau1g (May 9, 2008)

Whoops, I must've been remembering Rogarth... 

I'm not too familiar with Psionics, but I do have the books. I'll keep you posted, I think I might run the pre-cursor to it as well, it's an FR adventure (I forget the name off-hand), but it's to do with orcs, and from the description is an excellent lead in to the Red Hand of Doom, only thing is I think it starts level 4 & I believe you were hoping for 6-8.


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## Vertexx69 (May 9, 2008)

I know that nobody pays attention to the striker, but Hightower just failed his poison save, and is also down over 25% of his hp. Hes just not caterwallin about it to keep up appearances in front of the lizardfolk prisoners/cohorts/mercs? He would definitely not decline any healing potions. He can make use of the large sized javelins since nobody else can. More AC would help give him more longevity in battle, as his AC suffers greatly when he rages.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> I know that nobody pays attention to the striker, but Hightower just failed his poison save, and is also down over 25% of his hp. Hes just not caterwallin about it to keep up appearances in front of the lizardfolk prisoners/cohorts/mercs? He would definitely not decline any healing potions. He can make use of the large sized javelins since nobody else can. More AC would help give him more longevity in battle, as his AC suffers greatly when he rages.




Trent can easily lend his last charge of the healing belt to Hightower, as he's the front rank guy, and is going to need it.  Plus, you can take one of the amulet's, considering your ac is going to be the most obvious one that would need a little assistance.  Rosa can have two healing potions from the stash.  The funds from the loot can easily be used to hire this scout for the remaining days that it will take to clear out the Temple.  

That leaves all the weapon gear, arrows and poison.  Any takers?  Hightower might be able to use those larger javelins, which would be nice.  I might be able to use one of the smaller bows, since it has a STR bonus, it will offset the damage output, and give me one more expendable option for further than 30' ranged attacks.  

Then we need to make sure the scout's outfitted with his own stuff.  What are your thoughts on him keeping the healing belt, or letting us keep it instead?  Anyone have some ideas?


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> I know that nobody pays attention to the striker,




Uhm don't worry. Everyone pays attention to Hightower. I mean he's over 7' tall for pete's sake. 

At least the bad guys certainly do. 

Part of being big, is being a big target.


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## Shayuri (May 9, 2008)

Would you be all right with the Dragonwrought feat? Probably draconic wings too, to go along with the 'blessed by Siberys' idea.

There's also a thing in Races of the Dragon called a Rite of Draconic Passage...or something like that. Basically you can 'buy' a 1st level sorceror spell as a 1/day spell like, but only one. Would you allow that?


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## renau1g (May 9, 2008)

Fangor the Fierce said:
			
		

> Trent can easily lend his last charge of the healing belt to Hightower, as he's the front rank guy, and is going to need it.  Plus, you can take one of the amulet's, considering your ac is going to be the most obvious one that would need a little assistance.  Rosa can have two healing potions from the stash.  The funds from the loot can easily be used to hire this scout for the remaining days that it will take to clear out the Temple.
> 
> That leaves all the weapon gear, arrows and poison.  Any takers?  Hightower might be able to use those larger javelins, which would be nice.  I might be able to use one of the smaller bows, since it has a STR bonus, it will offset the damage output, and give me one more expendable option for further than 30' ranged attacks.
> 
> Then we need to make sure the scout's outfitted with his own stuff.  What are your thoughts on him keeping the healing belt, or letting us keep it instead?  Anyone have some ideas?




So far, Fenwick can't use anything. Not that I mind, but hopefully we'll find something up ahead for him. Who took the second Amulet? Also, for the potion's Rosa takes 2, that leaves 2. 1 to Hightower, 1 to Trent? Fenwick can teleport away if he's in trouble.


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## Arabesu (May 9, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Would you be all right with the Dragonwrought feat? Probably draconic wings too, to go along with the 'blessed by Siberys' idea.
> 
> There's also a thing in Races of the Dragon called a Rite of Draconic Passage...or something like that. Basically you can 'buy' a 1st level sorceror spell as a 1/day spell like, but only one. Would you allow that?




I don't actually own either Races of the Dragon or Dragon magic. A friend does, but I won't have access to the book until Sunday. So, try to make a guess if you think its overpowered or broken and go ahead and build your character if you think its okay.

How does the Dragonwrought feat work? 

Draconic wings provides what, a poor maneuverability fly speed? What are the prereqs? Normally, I'd be relucant to okay flight at will until about 5th level when many characters and arcetypes get it. I know that there are some that get it a certain number of times a days (shifters) or at will but with an ECL+1 race (hengeiokai) so if its something that you only qualify for at 3rd or higher character level and doesn't have terrific speed or maneuverability then it should be okay. 

As to the Rite of Draconic passage, at first glance it seems okay, no more over or under powered than a (abherent) dragonmark.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 9, 2008)

renau1g said:
			
		

> So far, Fenwick can't use anything. Not that I mind, but hopefully we'll find something up ahead for him. Who took the second Amulet? Also, for the potion's Rosa takes 2, that leaves 2. 1 to Hightower, 1 to Trent? Fenwick can teleport away if he's in trouble.




I have a healing belt, which is better than those potions, IMO, as it's only a single action to get healed, where the potion is a move action to grab, and standard action to drink.  Rosa can keep the two, Hightower can keep one, and Fenwick can keep the other.  

Hightower should take one of the amulets, as he's the one most needing it.  As for the other amulet, it's up for grabs.  I have a pretty decent AC right now, so if someone else needs it, take it.  

Items/weapons are all not sized right for me, but that might be ok to try out them in the 'worst case scenario' option, for when we need to rain arrows on distant foes for a few rounds.  Arabesu, what's your take on the option for sized weapons being used as alternative weapons for different sizes?  Such as:  Dagger for medium sized humanoid can be doubled as short sword for Small sized humanoid.  If that's an option, then small shortswords might be good daggers for us medium sized humanoids.  Smaller damage output, but trade off is the non reduced attack modifier.  

There are only a few weapons that fall into this option of changing from one type to another, but it's worth asking about.


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## Shayuri (May 9, 2008)

Ah! I see. Here is the skinny.

Dragonwrought is available only to kobolds, and only at 1st level. It represents a sort of genetic throwback that brings a kobold some draconic features. In and of itself, it causes the kobold to become a "dragon" rather than a humanoid, becomes immune to magic sleep and paralysis, and gives them low light vision in addition to the darkvision they already possess. It also allows them to take Draconic Wings at 3rd level, instead of 1st as is usually required.

Draconic Wings, normally only available to creatures of the dragon type, or with the Dragonborn subtype (which there are various ways to gain), give a +10 to Jump checks and allow the character to glide at a speed of 30 with average manueverability. Gliding is like flying, but you can't gain altitude without some outside force acting (thermals, eg) and MUST lose altitude. At 6 hit dice, you gain a limited flight...only for a number of rounds equal to your Con bonus. Exceed that...and there's a limit as to the total time flying per day too...and you get fatigued. You can switch between flying and gliding though, to extend time in the air. At 12 HD you can actually fly fly.

I think you may need another feat at 6 HD or above too...Improved Draconic Wings or something.

The Rite of Passage is distinct from a dragonmark in that it doesn't cost a feat. It costs money. And not a whole LOT of it either. Don't have it here to quote from right now though. I'll give a paraphrase of it when I get to the book.


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## Arabesu (May 10, 2008)

As long as the Rite of Passage is on the order of 400 gp or more then it seems ok. An eternal wand is what, 800, and gives two uses per day? So I'm just ballparking.

The other feats seem fair. I like the wings; a feat chain to get good flight but you have to invest in the gliding feat first and then at around the right time the druid is shapeshifting into flying creatures your PC is flying as well. Seems fair for a 2-feet chain. Go for it. So the dragonwraught and two wing-feats pretty much eat up your 1st, 3rd, and 6th level feats. I have opened up the floor for a single flaw/feat per character, so that can get you one more if you need it. 

I haven't been a stickler for making the flaw MATTER, as per the UA rules; i.e. I should make those with shaky fingers actually have to make a ranged attack occasionally otherwise they basically get a free feat. I will probably try to come up with some incentive or compelling reason to make these flaws impact the game more but have been lazy.


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## renau1g (May 10, 2008)

note: Arabesu, I just threw up my interest check for Red hand of Doom, I didn't put Psionics there because I only have the expanded Psionics book and am not too familiar with it, but I trust that you won't pull out any gamebreakers...  Anyways... it's up.


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## Arabesu (May 12, 2008)

I will try to get back to posting tonight I tried to get on the boards Sat/Sun but couldn't because of the hacking, I reckon. I would post today but I want to review book content and don't have it at work.


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## Shayuri (May 15, 2008)

Sorry about delays...I should have a sheet posted tonight.


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## renau1g (May 15, 2008)

Your timing couldn't be better


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## Vertexx69 (May 15, 2008)

Yah the cover thing sucks, Hightower's next feat is going to be "precise swing" so he can regain his AoO's even if the target has cover. (and the target will think it's safe too  just like with mageslayer!)


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 15, 2008)

You know, mageslayer actually grants the opponent the knowledge that you threaten them while casting.  They know you can AoO them and such.  Just thought I would warn you.


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## Vertexx69 (May 15, 2008)

It grants them the knowledge that "someone" that threatens them has the ability, not spefically who, but I was refering to when they first enter the area (having previously believed that they could move up and cast on the defensive, with touch spells and the like).


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## Shayuri (May 15, 2008)

Man...I forgot kobolds had all those minuses to their stats...last time I made a kobold PC, it was higher level and they were easier to compensate for...

Hope you guys don't need a battlecleric.


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## Vertexx69 (May 15, 2008)

@ Arabesu - Did our quickly departing (previous cast) happen to mention reinforcements being sent, that would arrive soon? Or is this going to be a random meeting of new blood, because randomly meeting another lizard type fellow might proove to be a sticky situation. What with all of our previous encounters starting out so hostile with those of the scaley persuasion


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## Arabesu (May 15, 2008)

Either that or a flash back and you all already know she/he is coming. I haven't decided yet. It depends upon the nature of the Shayuri's character. 

Shayuri, is there a way I can private message you? 

I'm not community supporter/subscriber (I was but let it lapse to save money for diapers and formula) so you would have to change your options to allow an email to be sent from me I guess. Or if you could give me an email address that would be useful. Post it for a few hours and once I've got it then you could remove it if you want. I have enabled the same option, i.e. messages from non-supporters, for a period of time, if anyone else wants to swap email addresses with me using the enworld tools.

I know some people are uncomfortable doing so, so don't worry about it if you are disinclined.


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## Shayuri (May 15, 2008)

It's not a big deal. I have more than one email addy, and I've given it out here before.

[sblock=Eveel Email]praydohpuss@hotmail.com

Only with a lower-case L instead of an 'r'. I do that so spyders won't add to the already prodigious spam that goes to that address. [/sblock]

As for introduction, I see our young kobold as being a boistrous sort...I suspect he'll be hard to mistake for a lizard man...or perhaps he's a captive y'all can rescue. That would help cement bonds that otherwise would take time to form.


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## Arabesu (May 15, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Hope you guys don't need a battlecleric.




Yes, they are particularly bad. At least they dropped the additional -2 to charisma that Kobolds had under 3.0. That had made it pretty painful to take the Kobold's favored class, Sorcerer.

You'll get something to compensate for crummy stats in your background, and your boon can really make up for this somewhat. Plus, all those draconic feats end up pretty sweet if you can get to 6th+ level.


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## Shayuri (May 15, 2008)

Eh, it's alright. I knew what I was getting into when I picked.

Part of the fun of being a kobold is that everyone goes, "Aww, hey...it's a kobold. Hah hah!"

Then you can, with some class levels, wallop them. 

And yeah...the boon. That will be the key. Some kind of dragon-themed thingy...arr...


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## Vertexx69 (May 16, 2008)

Waiting an extra day wont help much, hightower is still -4 con and another day will only give him back 4hp to his max. So technically we would be waiting for Shay to get his toon posted? ;p


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## moritheil (May 16, 2008)

Well, if we wait, Rosa could try to sneak a peak at the entrance to the temple and maybe go around spotting sentries to get an idea of what the response to a frontal assault might be. 

Hmm, I somewhat regret the fact that we can't all be invisible.


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## renau1g (May 16, 2008)

Unless we want to use all of Fenwicks 2nd level spells


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## Shayuri (May 16, 2008)

Here's a draft of what I have so far.

Boon item is taking me longer than I thought. The concept is easy enough. A siberys dragonshard he uses as a holy symbol, and that has abilities he can draw on. I'm thinking of giving it spell likes based on the powers of dragonmarks...but more likely it'll be static buffs...

And somewhere there's an item that'll overcome Light Sensitivity...I think it's in Races of the Dragon. I'll need those too...

[sblock=Kuma the Kobold Kleric]Name: Kuma
Race: Kobold
Class/Level: Cleric 5
Gender: Male
Exp: 10,500

Strength (STR) 6
Dexterity (DEX) 16
Constitution (CON) 12
Intelligence (INT) 10
Wisdom (WIS) 17
Charisma (CHA) 10

Alignment: Neutral Good
AC: 15 (10 + 3 Dex + 1 size + 1 natural)
Hit Points: 31/31
Movement: 30

Init: +3
Base Attack Bonus: +3
Melee Attack: +1
Ranged Attack: +6
Fort: +5
Reflex: +4
Will: +7

Race Abilities:
–4 Strength, +2 Dexterity, –2 Constitution.
Small size: +1 bonus to Armor Class, +1 bonus on attack rolls, +4 bonus on Hide checks, –4 penalty on 

grapple checks, lifting and carrying limits 3/4 those of Medium characters.
A kobold’s base land speed is 30 feet.
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Skills: A kobold character has a +2 racial bonus on Craft (trapmaking), Profession (miner), and Search checks.
Racial Feats: A kobold character gains feats according to its character class.
+1 natural armor bonus.
Light sensitivity: Kobolds are dazzled in bright sunlight or within the radius of a daylight spell.

Class Abilities:
Turn Undead 3/day
- 1d20 (10-12 HD = level)
- 2d6+5
Turn Earth/Rebuke Air 3/day
Greater Turning 1/day
Spontaneous Cast Heal spells

Skills: 16
Concentration +9 (8 ranks + 1 Con)
Heal +4 (1 ranks + 3 wis)
Knowledge: Religion +5 (5 rank + 0 Int)
Speak Language 1cc

Feats
1 Dragonwrought Kobold 
3 Draconic Wings (+10 jump, glide 30)

Languages - Common, Draconic, Auran

Spellcasting (CL 5, DC 15+lvl)
0 Create Water, Light, Purify Food/Drink, Detect Magic, Guidence
1 Blessed Aim, Divine Favor, Protection from Evil, Shield of Faith, ?
Domain: Obscuring Mist
2 Silence, Spiritual ?
Domain: Wind Wall
3 Searing Light, ?
Domain: Fly

Money - ?

Weapons -
Small MW Light Crossbow, +8, 1d6, 80', 2lbs, 335gp
Quiver - 10 shots
Small dagger, +2, 1d3-2, .5lb, 2gp

Armour -
Darkwood Buckler, +1 AC, 0 ACP,  1.25lbs, 205gp

Gear -
Backpack
Waterskin		

Magic -
The Shard - BOON

 - pending[/sblock]


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## Vertexx69 (May 16, 2008)

You've got 4k to buy other gear, you definitely want some armor, and lots of antitoxin/lesser restoration potions. its lvl 1 on the pali spell list so they only cost 50g each. Im a also a firm believer in the moving wall strategy carry a shield while travelling then drop it if you want to get into melee.


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## Shayuri (May 16, 2008)

Oh, I shan't be doing a wall strategy of any kind. For one thing, I'll be avoiding melee like the plague. For another, I have a crossbow...two-handed shootin'. I only even have a buckler for defense when I'm casting spells.

Kobold, ya know. This isn't a stalwart combat cleric who's gonna be shouting wrathfully and smiting with a mace and full plate. It's a stalwart support cleric who will be yipping wrathfully and scampering away when something gets too close.


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## moritheil (May 17, 2008)

In that case, is there any reason for choosing cleric over cloistered cleric, healer, shaman, or shugenja?


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## Shayuri (May 17, 2008)

I don't have any books with a Healer or Shaman class.

There's Spirit Shaman, but I don't like it very much.

Shujenja doesn't feel like the right flavor to me. 

Plus, even if I won't be very GOOD at turning undead, it'd be nice to have the option.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I don't have any books with a Healer or Shaman class.
> 
> There's Spirit Shaman, but I don't like it very much.
> 
> ...




Especially with those action die that we are granted.  Those would help in the areas that you aren't as proficient in.


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## moritheil (May 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I don't have any books with a Healer or Shaman class.
> 
> There's Spirit Shaman, but I don't like it very much.
> 
> ...




Well, Healer is from Miniatures . . . it isn't very popular.

My OA is crying.

Certainly there's nothing wrong with the cleric, I just tend to think in terms of myriad options.


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2008)

Oh I like options too!

I wasn't rejecting you out of hand. 

I'd already looked at several options, like druid, favored soul, shujenja... 

Wasn't quite right for what I had in mind though.


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## moritheil (May 18, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Oh I like options too!
> 
> I wasn't rejecting you out of hand.
> 
> ...




I was just thinking that shaman (from OA) and cloistered cleric (UA) are both more lightly armored clerics that deemphasize front-line combat in favor of more skills or feats.  Thematically, I usually take them in lieu of standard cleric in cases where I am building a divine caster that is not reliant on heavy armor and a weapon.

By the way, about shugenja - the flavor in C Div utterly sucks.  You really ought to look at them in the original AED materials if you want to get a feel for what the class is supposed to be like.  The mechanics aren't too hot either, but what I think is the biggest turnoff is the way the flavor didn't get transferred.  They are basically sorcerer, priest, shaman, and negotiator all rolled into one.


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## Shayuri (May 18, 2008)

Sadly, I have neither Oriental Adventures, nor any non-Wizards books.

I agree that the Complete Divine Shujenja is disappointing, but one works with what one has. 

The cloistered cleric is also not exactly the flavor I'm going for...Kuma is not a scholarly cleric, nor studious. I do like some of the tradeoffs though...the increase in skill points is useful since his Intelligence is so limited. The access to spells will be useful, since they're the sort of spells that often are neglected by arcanists...and I like the flavor of a draconic cleric having access to some traditionally arcane spells...

Hmmmm

That may be good, actually...


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## Vertexx69 (May 21, 2008)

How's your cleric coming along Shay? I know we're all gearing up for the NEW epic game, but I wouldn't like to see our other games suffer for it. We are in 2 other games here, along with arabesu, that seem to be falling by the way side at the thought of our high power adventure.


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## Shayuri (May 21, 2008)

The GM and I have been in communication. Backstory has been cobbled. Sinister secret motives established. The cake is complete. Electronic rhubarb is being added.

...

I hope this was of assistance.


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## moritheil (May 21, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Sinister secret motives established. The cake is complete. Electronic rhubarb is being added.




The cake is a lie!


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## Vertexx69 (May 21, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> The GM and I have been in communication. Backstory has been cobbled. Sinister secret motives established. The cake is complete. Electronic rhubarb is being added.
> 
> ...
> 
> I hope this was of assistance.



mmm rhubarb  glad to hear it!


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## moritheil (May 27, 2008)

So, I realize we've all been busy as we're all committed to other campaigns too, but it's been a week without an update.  I believe we're all waiting for our ally, and we're going to lie low in the meantime.


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## renau1g (May 27, 2008)

I think so.


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## Shayuri (May 28, 2008)

There was a little miscommunication in the email channels.

Should be fixed up now.

I am posting Kuma to the RG.


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## moritheil (Jun 1, 2008)

Yay!


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## renau1g (Jun 1, 2008)

Excellent!


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## Vertexx69 (Jun 8, 2008)

Is there some kind of holiday that nobody told me about?


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## Shayuri (Jun 8, 2008)

...we can't tell you.

*looks shiftily around*


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## Vertexx69 (Jun 18, 2008)

Durr I knew that...its been quite a while since anyone posted to the game and the names aren't really tht descriptive ;p


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## moritheil (Jul 3, 2008)

Well, hopefully now that the forum links are fixed things will pick up again.


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## Arabesu (Aug 11, 2008)

I am back from vacation if you all want to get this rolling again.

Please post in this thread if you are still playing in this PBP.

You may recall that you are now more or less back to within a couple of hours from the temple. By my reckoning, the casters have used between 1/4 and 1/2 of their resources. The girralon was your first encounter so far today.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 13, 2008)

I'm still here, but going slowly... sorry!


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## renau1g (Aug 13, 2008)

Hmmm.... Apparently the site ate my last post, but anyways, still here.


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## Shayuri (Aug 13, 2008)

Yar, here!


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## moritheil (Jan 15, 2009)

Looks like the site change was really the kiss of death for many campaigns.


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 16, 2009)

Combination of factors. The site works fine now, but 4th edition came out, the economy getting worse really puts the kabosh in most leisure activities and arabesu disappeared a few day after his last post there never to be heard from again.


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