# Windows 8?



## EricNoah (Nov 1, 2012)

Anyone taken the plunge on Windows 8? Worth it for a desktop PC that doesn't have a touch screen?


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## Morrus (Nov 1, 2012)

I did. As far as I can tell, the user experience is basically Windows 7 except that you have that "Metro" full page instead of a start button.  That page looks cool, and you'll probably spend some time adding live tiles to it, before never using it again - at least that's what's happened with me. 

I haven't experienced any problems or bugs, and it does boot up faster, but other than that it doesn't really seem to change anything that I can tell.


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 2, 2012)

Didn't Windows 7 come out just, like, a year or 2 ago?
After the horrible Vista version?
When I get around to buying a new computer, I will probably have to upgrade. Can't do that until I finish paying off my credit card (getting divorced was expensive, but worth it!)
I have a whole list of tech-toys (a render server, 3D printer/plotter, region-free dvd player...) for when I've paid everything off.


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## Janx (Nov 2, 2012)

I think the key problem with windows 8 is that for non-touch users/those who use normal apps (non-metro) is that the metro part is just clunky when you keep switching contexts.

don't get me wrong, the WinRT paradigm has stuff to make the GUI sing for metro apps (the same way iOS apps were more responsive than Android apps).

But the apps people use for work aren't in Metro.

It's also a huge paradigm shift.  I have a 90 year old I advise.  I steered her clear of Win8 and got her a Win7 machine to upgrade her old XP box.  Even that's a radical move for her.m  But at least the start button's in the same place.


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## Jhaelen (Nov 2, 2012)

After seeing Visual Studio 2012 I know I'll skip Windows 8 just like I skipped Vista. I'm hoping that Windows 9 will provide a better compromise between Windows 7 and 8.


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## EricNoah (Nov 2, 2012)

Thanks for the comments. I'm sitting pretty with Win7 now and it sounds like there's no huge need to upgrade.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 2, 2012)

been testing it at work.  

Running it on a HP Mini - 2GB RAM and 300GB Flash Drive with an ATOM N270 @ 1.60GHz - fast boot up and no freezes or crashes.  Makes me really want to check it out on the Surface tablet.   

Starting to like the interface and having MS Office, is nice.  Switching apps; works and so much better than double tapping and finding the sliding launch windows better than icons...I find the apps!  I am using the arrow keys and the window key to get about and have no problems.


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## jonesy (Nov 2, 2012)

I haven't really even moved to 7 yet. At this speed there will be a 10 before I try 8.


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## Plane Sailing (Nov 2, 2012)

EricNoah said:


> Thanks for the comments. I'm sitting pretty with Win7 now and it sounds like there's no huge need to upgrade.




Basically right. I use Win8 in a VM for some software development. Task Manager is considerably more powerful, but I still find the context switching with the new 'start screen' a pain in the neck.

Once you've learned certain keyboard skills and hotkeys, Win8 on a PC becomes much more usable, but I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade.

Cheers


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## JustinAlexander (Nov 5, 2012)

I'm waiting for them to release a Surface tablet that actually runs Windows applications. I'll use that experience to judge whether or not I want to upgrade my desktop to it.


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## Sammael (Nov 5, 2012)

JustinAlexander said:


> I'm waiting for them to release a Surface tablet that actually runs Windows applications. I'll use that experience to judge whether or not I want to upgrade my desktop to it.



I'm not going to upgrade my desktop to 8, but I may purchase a Surface Pro tablet once it's out.


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## Zaukrie (Nov 5, 2012)

Agreed, let's see the real tablet.


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## Janx (Nov 5, 2012)

Plane Sailing said:


> Basically right. I use Win8 in a VM for some software development. Task Manager is considerably more powerful, but I still find the context switching with the new 'start screen' a pain in the neck.
> 
> Once you've learned certain keyboard skills and hotkeys, Win8 on a PC becomes much more usable, but I don't see any compelling reason to upgrade.
> 
> Cheers




I suspect that Win8 is better on a touch screen and with actual Metro apps.

so  Metro ready Visual studio and MS Office would probably be a world of difference than imagining my current apps in it.

In any event, I would NEVER recommend doing an upgrade.  Buy a new PC with it.  Maybe wipe your current PC and load up Win8.  But never for the love of Eric's Grandma should you attempt an in-place OS upgrade.  

Everybody who's done it will initially swear it worked fine, and then weeks later, all heck breaks lose and they admit they were wrong and wipe the box and start fresh with the new OS.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 5, 2012)

I  am also thinking of getting windows 8 but once the Surface Pro comes out.  

After reading some reports I am positive that you will need as much ram as possible since even RT eats up a goog portion of a surface's HD.

-Sent via a cybernetic device.


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 4, 2013)

I looked at it in the store last week. And hated it. "Isn't it cool that we keep hiding things?" NO!!! Leave it on the #$*&'ing screen so I can find it. Stop trying to imitate Mac/Apple's interface.
I don't know why this trend keeps getting worse and worse. It's like they aren't thinking about function. I'm tempted to find some old copies of Office 2000 and Windows7 and just stockpile them until Microsoft comes to its senses and remembers that some of us like to use hammers made of metal and wood instead of clear plastic.
I want my toolbar. I want it to stay where I can see it without having to tap some extra button every single time I want to use something. I want my list of active programs to be constantly visible so I can switch back and forth without having to hunt for the sleeping sidebar or whatever.

I know--I'm an old geezer. To me, phones and tablets aren't real computers--computers have buttons.
So I will be here, sitting in a dark closet raging against a machine that seems hell-bent on ignoring me.


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## jonesy (Feb 4, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> -snippety snip-



Totally there with you. I even hate it when people say stupid things like 'Why is your desktop so cluttered? Don't you hate having all those icons there blocking the view?'. No, the icons are there because I.. and I know this is a really hard concept to understand, but ..I use them.


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## Asmo (Feb 6, 2013)

I´m still on Vista, and no need to upgrade at all.


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## Deset Gled (Feb 6, 2013)

I installed Win8 back in November when it first came out because I needed a new copy of Windows and it didn't seem to make sense to buy a brand new copy of 7.  I gave Metro an honest try until January, when I broke down and installed Classic Shell, a program that brings back the standard start menu and lets you turn off a number of the Metro-isms.

Unfortunately, Metro sucks on anything that isn't a touch screen.  It adds unnecessary movements, clicks, and searches to find things are easily accessible in earlier versions of Windows.  It's awful in terms of organization, and it's jarring to move back and forth between anything that runs on the old desktop and Metro apps.  The fact that it's non-intuitive to people have used older Windows is a forgivable fault (like the ribbon interface on Office); the real problem is that once you find everything again, it's still less efficient (for desktops and laptops).  I also find it highly aesthetically unappealing, and feel a general repulsion to the "app store" they are pushing.

But now that I've gotten rid of Metro, and started customizing things, I can honestly say I like Win8 a lot.  It's quick to boot, stable, and efficient with resources.  It has a lot of nice new built in features, like the upgraded Power Shell.  So far, the built in security have been useful but reasonably unintrusive.  It's also compatible with almost all Win7 drivers and older software, so the upgrade has been pretty seamless.  

The bottom line is that Windows 8 is really nice under the hood, it just has a really ugly hood.  It's a Lexus trapped in the body of an Edsel.  Overall, I would say it's not really good enough to upgrade if you're already on Win7, but I also wouldn't buy a new computer without Win8.  If you're willing to put enough time into customizing the interface, it may even be your favorite Windows yet.


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## sabrinathecat (Feb 7, 2013)

Is "classic Shell" something you have to buy, free-ware, or so app that someone created?
Call me silly, but XP has one of the most intelligent design options available: the option to look like pre-XP. Why anyone thought the rounded corners etc was necessary is beyond me. Trying to copy mac interface again?


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## Morrus (Feb 7, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> Is "classic Shell" something you have to buy, free-ware, or so app that someone created?




http://www.classicshell.net/


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## GSHamster (Feb 7, 2013)

Deset Gled said:


> I installed Win8 back in November when it first came out because I needed a new copy of Windows and it didn't seem to make sense to buy a brand new copy of 7.  I gave Metro an honest try until January, when I broke down and installed Classic Shell, a program that brings back the standard start menu and lets you turn off a number of the Metro-isms.




Heh, I got a new machine recently with Win 8.  I tried it out and was wondering what all the fuss was about. It seemed pretty normal to me. Then I realized that the store, NCIX, installed Classic Shell when they built the machine. It was the only thing other than the OS that they installed.

I agree with your assessment. Performance-wise, it's excellent. But the moment a Win8 Metro app opens, I alt-F4 as quickly as possible to get back to the regular Desktop.


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## Zaukrie (Feb 11, 2013)

Just bought a new laptop yesterday....there are some quirks, but I think the learning curve will be low.


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## dogoftheunderworld (Feb 11, 2013)

Morrus said:


> http://www.classicshell.net/




Thanks Morrus (and Deset Gled).  That link is a keeper!


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## Kye_Tyrad (Feb 15, 2013)

I understand and can navigate fairly well, but I am not a big fan of the Metro screen look.  I really wish there was an option to use either the classic or Metro mode rather than a separate install, but regardless now that Morrus posted that classicshell, I will have to download it and that will make it easier to swallow.


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## GreyLord (Feb 16, 2013)

I actually am one of the few that have absolutely LOVED the new Start Screen (instead of the start menu).  What I've done is any heavily used program I've attached there at the front, I can organize it so that instead of a click to open the start menu, find it on the menu, and then click to open (older windows), all I do is click it on the start screen and the program opens.

Furthermore, for work, I have great ideas.  We lock everything except the necessary programs and put them on the start screen, that kills all the extra stuff the workers do on the work computers (I mean they have their phones and everything else there that they can also use for browsing...let's use work computers for work...meaning hopefully...no more killer virus's downloaded because they went to the wrong sites).

On the otherhand, despite enjoying the start screen...or metro or whatever they call it...I ABSOLUTELY LOATHE Windows 8.  Half (actually maybe more) of the programs that were compatible with Win7 are NOT compatible with Win8.  I'm not certain what they changed, but somehow many of the programs that worked under Win7 are NOT compatible under Win8.

If you are a gamer for example...do NOT get Win8.  Especially if you are classic gamer.  Most of the older games do not work.  I think they tightened piracy controls...which may not be a bad thing except it now doesn't allow over 50% of the legitimate programs to run.  I can get more compatibility out of a Mac which is not predesigned to run Windows than I can out of Win8...


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## Deset Gled (Feb 18, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> Half (actually maybe more) of the programs that were compatible with Win7 are NOT compatible with Win8.
> ...
> If you are a gamer for example...do NOT get Win8.  Especially if you are classic gamer.  Most of the older games do not work.




I am legitimately curious to know what programs you are having compatibility problems with.  I have actually found Win8 to be one of the most backwards-compatible OS upgrades I ever had to deal with.  All of my heavy duty image processing programs are running fine, Java is no more or less painful than before, my DOS emulator is chugging along (sans sound) just like it used to, and even most of my hardware drivers are showing no bugs.  What's been broken for you?



> What I've done is any heavily used program I've attached there at the front ... all I do is click it on the start screen and the program opens.
> ...
> Furthermore, for work, I have great ideas. We lock everything except the necessary programs and put them on the start screen, that kills all the extra stuff the workers do on the work computers




Frankly, everything you just described is trivial on any Windows platform since XP: create a desktop icon to the programs you want used, set user login permissions to lock out anything you don't want them to have access to.  And if you don't properly lock things in Win8, they'll still be available to anyone using Metro's search function.


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## ObsoleteAccount_1 (Feb 18, 2013)

i'm using the windows 8 environment both for private as for professional use. I'm Sr. application manager at a large company (sanoma media). I love the quick startup (yes i know what they do... how they do it etc.) i have no problems et all with the missing start button drama. (i could not find anything in it anyway, endi g up dropping all important things in taskbar and/or desktop. The metro skin is something i rarely see, although i use it occasionally to find an app. The best thing is the dual screen taskbar layout, the windows button actually does something usefull and well... i guess by now you know i'm a fan


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## GreyLord (Feb 21, 2013)

Deset Gled said:


> I am legitimately curious to know what programs you are having compatibility problems with.  I have actually found Win8 to be one of the most backwards-compatible OS upgrades I ever had to deal with.  All of my heavy duty image processing programs are running fine, Java is no more or less painful than before, my DOS emulator is chugging along (sans sound) just like it used to, and even most of my hardware drivers are showing no bugs.  What's been broken for you?




It's absolutely horrendous.  There are multiple work programs which we DO NOT WISH TO BUY again that do not work.

However, for the more common elements, talking simply on games, none of the craft series (such as warcraft, starcraft, etc...even the updated versions which worked under Win7) seem to work.  Diablo does not work, Rise of Nations does not work, Star Fleet Command 1, 2, and 3 do not work, arcanum does not work, Conquest frontier wars does not work...in fact anything that was over 7 years old that was compatible or had work arounds to work on Win7 do NOT work.  Unless you only utilize programs from the past 5 years...it's most likely not going to work, and when it does it's hit and miss what will or what won't work.

You'd think that with a Win7 base they'd utilize the same backwards compatibility, but no, they didn't.

Part of it is that it appears they strengthened the "anti-piracy" protocols, but in doing so they basically negated many of the older programs and disabled them from working.

Hence, unless a company wants to buy all new software, or a gamer wants to abandon most of their old games...it's useless.

Love it for the new programs and how we can organize the interface, but for older programs and compatibility, it's the worst release yet.


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## DnD_Dad (Feb 21, 2013)

Windows 8 is getting everything and everyone who keeps up ready to have interchangeable workstations for their own pc.  It's paving the way for anyone who has a legitimate license to be able to upload your computer via cloud so you can go on any device(pc, Xbox, phone) and you can just log in and bam, your computer is right there.  Windows 8 is pretty cool.  Check it out if you can get it for free or if your still running 7 or vista there's no need to upgrade.  Your computer is already getting everything it needs to run great.


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## ObsoleteAccount_1 (Feb 22, 2013)

for old crap use old crap pc. runs fine
backward compatibilty has always been annoying since there is alwayssomeone summing up old crap from 1984 "my zork wont work" 
the majority of people wont play old crap because it is old crap. 
keep using windows 95... 

last time this kind of discussion popped up and incompatibility was a huuuge issue the user was just summing up stuff from long time passed and at the end he didnt own the games, didnt even have a windows machine. 

hmm sorry i am such a Pain it the A** i was just annoyed by the simplicity of the statement.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 23, 2013)

Windows 8...my baby!



(That's all I got...)


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## Deset Gled (Feb 26, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> However, for the more common elements, talking simply on games, none of the craft series (such as warcraft, starcraft, etc...even the updated versions which worked under Win7) seem to work.  Diablo does not work, Rise of Nations does not work, Star Fleet Command 1, 2, and 3 do not work, arcanum does not work, Conquest frontier wars does not work...in fact anything that was over 7 years old that was compatible or had work arounds to work on Win7 do NOT work.  Unless you only utilize programs from the past 5 years...it's most likely not going to work, and when it does it's hit and miss what will or what won't work.
> 
> You'd think that with a Win7 base they'd utilize the same backwards compatibility, but no, they didn't.




I can't speak to all of the games you mentioned, but I pulled out an old copy of Diablo over the weekend and found that it worked just fine in Win8.  But you do have to be running as an administrator (it failed from my Guest account that has no permissions).  I was also able to get Unreal to run, a couple of other pre-XP games.  I think you may just be dealing with permissions issues; the actual compatibility seems perfectly fine.  If you'd like to post screen shots of any of the errors you've seen in Diablo (since it's the only one on your list I can test), I'd be happy to take a look and see if I can help you ID the problem.



> Part of it is that it appears they strengthened the "anti-piracy" protocols, but in doing so they basically negated many of the older programs and disabled them from working.




Frankly, I blame non-conformance with security settings on a publisher, not the OS.  But regardless of where you want to place the blame, you can usually override the safety settings without too much difficulty.  If you have any problems that can't be overridden by running a program as an Administrator, just turn off the Data Execution Prevention.  Details can be found here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Change-Data-Execution-Prevention-settings


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## Zaukrie (Feb 27, 2013)

I have only used it twice....and am lost every time.


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## GreyLord (Feb 28, 2013)

Deset Gled said:


> I can't speak to all of the games you mentioned, but I pulled out an old copy of Diablo over the weekend and found that it worked just fine in Win8.  But you do have to be running as an administrator (it failed from my Guest account that has no permissions).  I was also able to get Unreal to run, a couple of other pre-XP games.  I think you may just be dealing with permissions issues; the actual compatibility seems perfectly fine.  If you'd like to post screen shots of any of the errors you've seen in Diablo (since it's the only one on your list I can test), I'd be happy to take a look and see if I can help you ID the problem.
> 
> 
> 
> Frankly, I blame non-conformance with security settings on a publisher, not the OS.  But regardless of where you want to place the blame, you can usually override the safety settings without too much difficulty.  If you have any problems that can't be overridden by running a program as an Administrator, just turn off the Data Execution Prevention.  Details can be found here: http://windows.microsoft.com/en-US/windows7/Change-Data-Execution-Prevention-settings




Are you absolutely certain you had Diablo working over the weekend.  Starcraft and other craft games are KNOWN issues with Win7 and would not run, and Diablo had graphical glitches that made it impossible to play on  Win7.  However, there were workarounds which MS was made aware of and which worked to get the games running and working correctly on Win7.  Some people made patches even to incorporate these workarounds so that you didn't have to manually do the workarounds to get those games to work.

MS for some reason, instead of building off the Win7 base and utlizing it, instead appear to have closed off the work arounds and disabled any manual patches making it impossible to run an older copy.  Unless you buy it directly from Blizzard (not certain if you still can, but they may sell the NEW copy which runs for Win8 off their site for download, which could be why they disabled ALL older copies with Win8) you shouldn't be able to run an older copy of Diablo at this point.

If you can, you probably should inform MS and others...on the otherhand, maybe you shouldn't because MS probably will incorporate that into the next patch to disable however you got it running as well.


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## GSHamster (Feb 28, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> Unless you buy it directly from Blizzard (not certain if you still can, but they may sell the NEW copy which runs for Win8 off their site for download, which could be why they disabled ALL older copies with Win8) you shouldn't be able to run an older copy of Diablo at this point.




If you have an copy of an old Blizzard game, you can register the product key on battle.net, and you can download the latest client from them.


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## Jhaelen (Feb 28, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> Starcraft and other craft games are KNOWN issues with Win7 and would not run, and Diablo had graphical glitches that made it impossible to play on  Win7.



Starcraft works fine under Windows 7 (64-bit even) after updating the client. There was a minor issue about wrong colours in the loading screen but that was easily fixed (by making a change in the regristry, iirc).


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## Deset Gled (Feb 28, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> Are you absolutely certain you had Diablo working over the weekend.




Yes.  Absolutely.  No patches required.  And I'm not the only one:

http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/off-topic/52719-working-with-windows-8-operating-system#52729

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3C_f5k9XynY



> MS for some reason, instead of building off the Win7 base and utlizing it, instead appear to have closed off the work arounds and disabled any manual patches making it impossible to run an older copy. Unless you buy it directly from Blizzard (not certain if you still can, but they may *sell the NEW copy which runs for Win8 off their site for download, which could be why they disabled ALL older copies with Win8*) you shouldn't be able to run an older copy of Diablo at this point.
> 
> If you can, you probably should inform MS and others...on the otherhand, maybe you shouldn't because *MS probably will incorporate that into the next patch to disable however you got it running as well*.




Win8 is actually heavily based off of Win7 and uses... wait... what?  Are you saying that Microsoft intentionally destroyed backwards compatibility so Blizzard can sell more software?


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## Hand of Evil (Feb 28, 2013)

, on the Keyboard try the "-" (minus key) - great little shortcut


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## GreyLord (Mar 1, 2013)

GSHamster said:


> If you have an copy of an old Blizzard game, you can register the product key on battle.net, and you can download the latest client from them.




I mentioned that...but if you have the original games you can't play them...it's downloading the client...



Deset Gled said:


> Yes.  Absolutely.  No patches required.  And I'm not the only one:
> 
> http://www.norbsoftdev.net/forum/off-topic/52719-working-with-windows-8-operating-system#52729
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=3C_f5k9XynY




Uhhhmm...so you are using a pirated game?

I'm not certain you should use that as your example for legitimate software users.

You REALLY should tell MS about that..I hear they aren't too fond of pirates and hackers.

AS I said, half the programs aren't working...glad to hear someone is hacking and using a hacked system...not certain that's what I would say.

Regardless, despite what some people are hyping...I've been using windows since 3.1 and at this point I'm considering that if they make the companies upgrade...being one MORE of the HORDES of people that have been migrating to Apple.  

MS at this point is their own worst enemy.  They made some bad mistakes with Vista...and they've continued with Win8.

I will argue in support of some of the things, but destroying backwards compatibility wins them no favors in this regard and only speeds up the numbers migrating to other systems, ways of working it, and ways of doing things.

I don't have a problem with Metro...it's with their compatibility.  We'll see what SP1 and 2 do, but when it's time to migrate at this time the company probably isn't going to be doing any contracts with MS this time around, and from what I hear on the business front I'm not the only one despite what some MS gung ho's are saying.

It could be the MS curse though, every odd OS stinks...and then they repair it.  Vista also had some massive compatibility problems which they fixed up with Win7, along with boot times and other problems.  IF the repair some damage with their next OS it may be able to migrate to it, but currently, though I actually like their Metro setup.....Win8 is a nogo for compatibility.

It doesn't matter if YOU can do it, it matters if our tech guys can do it for our systems, if they can't...it's a no go for us.


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## Jhaelen (Mar 1, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> They made some bad mistakes with Vista...and they've continued with Win8.



Not quite. Inbetween they released Windows 7 which fixed the mistakes they made with Vista.
I'm kind of hoping and expecting that the mistakes in Windows 8 will be fixed with the next release, too. Unless Microsoft intends to abandon the corporate market completely, they'll have to reverse some of the changes they made with Windows 8. As it is, it's unusable in a working environment.


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## Deset Gled (Mar 1, 2013)

GreyLord said:


> Uhhhmm...so you are using a pirated game?
> 
> I'm not certain you should use that as your example for legitimate software users.
> 
> ...




No, on many levels.  First, I am not using a pirated game or a hacked system.  Second, neither of those links were of things I did.  They were examples showing other people have been successful running Diablo in Win8, so that you could see my results are confirmed by other people.  Third, neither of those links showed pirated games.  One (not both) shows a game mod, but that's hardly the same thing by any stretch.  Fourth, even if I were using a pirated game, the point still stands that Diablo is running fine on Win8, contrary to your claim that it was impossible.  And fifth, why would Microsoft care if someone was pirating software from Blizzard?

The point I have been trying to make is that (IME) the backwards compatibility in Win8 has been extremely good; possibly the best of any Windows upgrade to date.  Your experience that "half (actually maybe more) of the programs that were compatible with Win7 are NOT compatible with Win8" is the exact opposite myself and others, even with some of the same programs.  I would like to reiterate my offer to look at screenshots of any error messages you are getting with Diablo and help you work through the issues (some details about the Win8 install will also be needed).  I truly believe, based off of my own personal experience getting programs to run, that you should be able to play many old games in Windows 8.  I am focusing on Diablo simply because it is the easiest for me to test and assist you with.

I do, however, take offense at your unwarranted accusations of performing illegal acts and implying that I am lying about getting programs to work.


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## GreyLord (Mar 2, 2013)

I would have to disagree with you on compatibility.

The posting of that video DOES bring on numerous questions.  The logic of piracy is as follows.

Diablo had 3 character classes, which were the Fighter, the Rogue, and the Sorcerer.  It was published by Blizzard.  IT had graphical distortions on Win7 that were able to be overcome by changing the color palette after starting the game.  It's exe does not work with Win8 (all known issues).

The download of Diablo may work on Win8, I haven't given it a shot.  I was not aware that they offered a free d/l if you bought the original Diablo, but as you did not need a key or anything to install the original, I'm not certain if there would be a way to verify that.  I have not seen a d/l of Diablo itself from blizzard, but I have seen that they offer the starcraft series (but not Warcraft I or II from what I have seen, maybe its' with their origianl Diablo d/l which I also haven't seen).  I suspect that they do not offer those three because of the known issues with Win7 and known issues with them not running on Win8.  The games that do run, they offer.  

There was an official expansion/mod for Diablo which was called HELLFIRE.  The game Hellfire by Sierra DOES have a working exe.  Not that this is Sierra's exe...not the Diablo exe.   Hellfire came with the Monk class.  It also allowed the Bard and Barbarian if you input the right command line into the game (which also means, that the Barbarian is the only Diablo class thus far in all three games in the series).  Note the Video is NOT really of diablo, but of Hellfire, and as stated, Hellfire's exe currently DOES appear to work on Win8.  I do not consider Hellfire as a workaround for running the original Diablo.

However, there are those who utilize this workaround to not only PIRATE hellfire, but also utilize that piracy as a workaround.

There is a certain mod you posted, which I am happy with your statements it is not you.  The full mod steals the assets put out by Sierrra and incorporates them into the mod without permission.  This enables those who do not get Hellfire or the expansion to be able to play with those assets.
It is possible that there are those who download the mod which is truly only a mod, but most seem to get the full mod with the illegal additions of portions which in my books makes it piracy.

Hence my statement.  

We will have to disagree on the compatibility portion however, I'm just testing it out for our business, and the games are the items I think people will understand as they are more common than many of the items that I would bring up here with the programming we utilize at work.

We'll see where it goes with the next SP's for Win8, but unless compatibility improves, we aren't going to blow the budget nor the IT hours trying to get things to work which MS seems intent on blocking, especially when we can get them to run on an Apple or Mac type, or even perhaps transfer over to Ipads with a similar program for cheaper (other ideas we are exploring).   It could also be the MS curse at work, where every other OS is a stinker...in which case we'll probably skip 8 and go with whatever OS comes out next.


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## Mage of Spellford (Mar 2, 2013)

*Windows 8 *Fail* IMO*



EricNoah said:


> Anyone taken the plunge on Windows 8? Worth it for a desktop PC that doesn't have a touch screen?




I work in IT and so far in my experience Windows 8 is Microsoft's biggest gaffe to date. As a tablet OS it may have what it needs, as a client OS no way. 

The interface is far from intuitive. The "Apps" installation mechanism is labyrinth in execution and MS seems to completely have lost touch with what made an "alternative" to Apple. 

Example: Went to play a region 1 DVD in my new Dell laptop, Cyberlink 10 (notice it is an older version because Windows 8 doesn't even ship with the newest version) won't play the DVD because it is from the incorrect region. Check settings on DVD hardware, set for correct region, try to ensure cyberlink picks this up -- nope the change region button doesn't work. 

Windows 8 sits there all pretty colours with no message -- not even an unhelpful one. Nothing. Nada.

The $14.99 for the upgraded version of Cyberlink App it might work but who knows. What kind of an OS won't play an optical media out of the box? You would have to go back to Windows 95 to find one.

Now imagine what the average user thinks when they put a blueray/dvd/USB into their Win 8 machine and they get the unsolvable region conflict message with a suggestion to pony up an additional $15? I don't see that they would be inclined at all to recommend this kludge of an OS to their friends that's for sure.

Microsoft what were you thinking?!?

M


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## sabrinathecat (Apr 14, 2014)

OK, I had to buy a new machine (which is why I've been quiet the last few days--wasn't that nice?)
Came with Windows8.

So I had to look up where to go to unhide the file menus to unhide the view menu to unhide the toolbars and sidebars that I use absolutely all the time. Who thought that was a good idea? (I know, they wanted tablet and "smart" phones to have maximum real-estate--let them choose to hide these things rather than make people struggle to find them!)

Had to find an updated version of PCDeCrapifier to strip out most of the useless, well, crap that comes with the system.
Naturally, just running basic installs and software updates also brought on some pop-up malware that I had to get rid of.
After 10-30 minutes, I just have to walk away from the whole thing. So it has taken me several days to get this system up to snuff, and that's with having already backed up 99% of my files and settings.

Next time, can we just update Windows XP?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 14, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> OK, I had to buy a new machine (which is why I've been quiet the last few days--wasn't that nice?)
> Came with Windows8.
> 
> So I had to look up where to go to unhide the file menus to unhide the view menu to unhide the toolbars and sidebars that I use absolutely all the time. Who thought that was a good idea? (I know, they wanted tablet and "smart" phones to have maximum real-estate--let them choose to hide these things rather than make people struggle to find them!)
> ...



That's what you get for using Windows 8.



> Next time, can we just update Windows XP?



I'm pretty sure they killed that thing.


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## Zombie_Babies (Apr 14, 2014)

XP is end of support.  

Has anyone run VMWare on a Windows 8 machine?  If so, how did it go?


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## sabrinathecat (Apr 14, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> That's what you get for using Windows 8.




Thanks for the sympathy. Not like there was much choice with the programs I'm starting to run.
Yes, XP is dead. Sad.
Just like the 4e character builder and adventure tools.
Win7 might have been an option, but is more likely to be phased out sooner--I'm hoping to keep the next computer alive for at least 5 years. Maybe longer.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Apr 14, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> Thanks for the sympathy. Not like there was much choice with the programs I'm starting to run.
> Yes, XP is dead. Sad.
> Just like the 4e character builder and adventure tools.
> Win7 might have been an option, but is more likely to be phased out sooner--I'm hoping to keep the next computer alive for at least 5 years. Maybe longer.



A while back I bought a laptop that came with Windows 8. I returned it three days later. You should have done the same.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Apr 14, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> XP is end of support.
> 
> Has anyone run VMWare on a Windows 8 machine?  If so, how did it go?



I was trying to set it up at work, but didn't have the time to go through the neccessary steps. I have the Hyper-V feature enabled (For Windows Phone 8 development mostly), and you need to turn off that feature first before you can install VM Ware. (You can apparently activate it afterwards again, so you can utilize both.) 



Windows 8 works nicely on my machine, but the apps can get annoying when they force you in their full-screen mode. I thought that 8.1 Update would change that, but I was misinformed or mislead by the reports on the update - all that comes later. For now, you only get some window-typical title bar in your apps you can use with your mouse. That is a help, but nothing compared to the neat stuff of a start menu with integrated tiles and apps in resizeable windows.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 14, 2014)

I have 7 on one lap top and 8 on another. I feel 8 was an un-necessary up grade, but It came auto on the new one.


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## The_Silversword (Apr 16, 2014)

Asmo said:


> I´m still on Vista, and no need to upgrade at all.




Amen brother!


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## sabrinathecat (Apr 24, 2014)

So, after 2 weeks (on and off) of trying to get this machine up and working, or working around the idiocy of the interface design, I've a few thoughts.

1: about 1/2 to 3/4 of the information on how to solve the bad design and annoying elements is written for the wrong version, or incomplete, or otherwise ineffective and worse than useless (you waste time trying to find what the person is talking about, only to discover it is for the wrong OS).

2: whatever the agenda was, they lost the plot.

3: while there is always some grumbling about various changes to the OS, and tools moving, and such like, the results of this new version are disastrously, soul-destroyingly, stupifyingly bizzare and disjointed that there can only be pain and frustration.

4: The default setting for almost everything is "hide it." Which means for almost every program, you have to hunt online to find the information for each program (usually different for each company) to find out how to unhide all the tools and menus needed to make the software functional.

5: the built in mail system is so torqued out of reality--you can't minimize it and work on other programs as you could with absolutely anything else. Instead, you have to either alt 4 or alt+tab to turn the program off or toggle to another program. What was the thinking here? Seriously? Who thought this was a good idea?

6: locating standard tools is ludicrous bordering on impossible--unless you stumble on it by accident while looking for something else. I am totally baffled as to how anyone could think this was a good idea, or in any way intuitive.

Windows 8: an abomination so vile it nearly drove me to Mac--and I HATE Mac.

Ultimate suggestion: get Windows 7, or wait for 9 or 10, or 15, or 2020.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 24, 2014)

It took me 4 months to find how to use the camera. I understand!


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## Mallus (Apr 24, 2014)

I recently made the switch from Windows 7 laptop to new Macbook Pro... however, I'm thinking of putting Windows 8 on it via Bootcamp. For, umm, productivity purposes. Yeah, that's it! Totally not for PC gaming...

Anyone have experience running Windows 8 on a Mac?

(I'm not really in a rush. I'm interested in doing more PC gaming mainly because Steam has actual sales. Where they lower prices significantly. Well, that and the indie development scene. There won't be any must-play AAA titles for me until the next Dragon Age comes out.)


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