# command undead never runs out?



## aboyd (May 24, 2009)

Evil clerics can rebuke or command undead, depending upon how powerful they are.  Here's my problem: rebuking undead has a 10 round limit.  Commanding undead has no limit listed.  Were the authors relying on the implied 10 round limit?  Or were the authors intentionally suggesting that commanded undead should essentially last forever?


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (May 24, 2009)

They last "forever."  You are severely limited in how many you can control at one time -- a number of HD up to your Cleric level.  And given the fact that the highest HD of any single creature you could hope to command (without feats or items to boost your effective level) would be your cleric level +4 (and don't forget turn resistance), you're not going to get very hardy soldiers.  Undead HD suck.  It's intended for an evil cleric to maintain a small force of undead minions in the rules.  Why?  I don't know.  Maybe because it's cool.  Maybe because a core evil cleric needs _something_ to use his spontaneous inflict spells on.

Compare to the much more powerful animate dead, also permanent.  It costs money, 25 gp per HD, basically, but allows for much stronger undead.  Up to 2x your CL in HD for any one creature, and a total amount of HD equal to 4x your CL.  If you cast Animate Dead inside a _desecrated_ area, you can even get a single creature with HD equal to 4x your CL!  Put it in perspective: The same level 5 cleric, if he rolls fairly well, could take command of a Megaraptor skeleton.  Or...he could use desecrate and animate dead to reanimate the bones of a T-Rex as a skeleton.


----------



## green slime (May 28, 2009)

An 8th level Dread Necromancer (Heroes of Horror) has the "Undead Mastery" class feature.

All undead have +4 Str & +4 Dex & +2 hp / HD.

In addition, can control (4HD + Cha mod)/class level of undead via _animate dead_.

A Scepter of the Netherworld (Libris Mortis) allows a rebuker to rebuke (and one assumes, therefore command) as though three levels higher than normal. (mere 9,000 gp)

Rod of Undead Mastery (once again, LM) allows the user to control twice as many undead than he normally could. (10,000 gp)

The feat Undead Leadership (LM) doesn't feel like it should count against the number of undead controlled through other means.

Necromantic presence: Undead you control gain +4 turn resistance when within 60 feet of you.

Necromantic Might: Undead gain +2 to attack rolls and saves when within 60 ft.

Improved Turning grants a further +1, but may or may not be perceived as worthwhile.

So altogether, a 8th level dread necromancer, cleric, or similar could have quite an army of low level undead, through controlling and creating undead, controlling undead as an 12th level Cleric (therefore affecting Cleric Level +4 HD / 2 via rebuke) = controls up to 8HD undead. 

And I don't think the _desecrate_ actually allows the caster to command excessive numbers of the undead; it may create them an unusually large number, but the cleric gains no extra ability to control the extra number created. I may be wrong, of course.


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (May 28, 2009)

Yes, desecrate does not extend the maximum amount you can have animated and under your control.  It does let you get all of those HD in a single casting, and potentially on a single, super-powerful undead you could not normally animate at your level.


----------



## frankthedm (May 28, 2009)

green slime said:


> And I don't think the _desecrate_ actually allows the caster to command excessive numbers of the undead; it may create them an unusually large number, but the cleric gains no extra ability to control the extra number created. I may be wrong, of course.



_Do not call up that which you can not put down._


----------



## calighis (May 30, 2009)

frankthedm said:


> _Do not call up that which you can not put down._





That makes a real good point. There is no reason for the vampire you just animated to feel grateful to you. In fact he'll probably wake up angry. 

On the other hand, Let's say you could control the vampire. Couldn't you have him create two other vampires of equal HD which in turn could create 4 other vampires etc...
An army of vampires under your indirect control could be a profitable group to manage.


----------

