# [Completly OT] Xbox or PS2?



## Lord Vangarel (Dec 9, 2002)

After much persuasion I've managed to convince my better half that a games machine will benefit the family (i.e. me) and was wondering which one?

As far as I can tell the Xbox is technically better but the PS2 has a load more games for it. I live in Britain if that influences the decision and don't have a recent console.

Thanks


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## Zappo (Dec 9, 2002)

Lord Vangarel said:
			
		

> *As far as I can tell the Xbox is technically better but the PS2 has a load more games for it.*



Yeah, that's about everything there is to say. There are some other points, like Xbox's DVD player being slightly easier to use or the PS2 being smaller and easier to carry around, but they are all minor in comparison. These considerations can be extended into the future; PS2 outsells Xbox five to one or so everywhere save USA (where it still outsells by a lot, just not five to one) and developers like to make games for the widest market. So you can be sure that the PS2 will keep having many more games forever. OTOH, you can expect that some very "heavy" games (eg, Morrowind) will be impossible to make on the PS2 because it isn't powerful enough. Then again, heavier hardware requirements don't a better game make (and take a look at both consoles' graphics; they aren't much different in fact).

Something that may or may not be true in your case is that there is a wide used games market for the PS2. At least where I live, it is easy to purchase a game, play it through, and then sell it for half what you paid it. Or, conversely, you can buy an used game for half its retail price. At my local videogame store there are always dozens of used games for sale.

A more important thing is that it seems that some Xboxes have some hardware flaws. _Morrowind_ crashes frequently, but it only does so on some Xboxes (not necessarily the older ones). _Two Towers_ too. When it was only Morrowind, I could think that it was the programmers' fault; after all, Bethesda is notorious for bugs. But now that Two Towers is out and has _the same bug_... hmmm. Conversely, I've never seen a game crash on the PS2.

Finally, don't be fooled into thinking that having a HD is a big Xbox advantage. It is effectively locked: it doesn't allow producers to release patches. It may allow them to release addons, but only if the game was designed with that in mind (and AFAIK, it has only been done with DOA3 for now).

Overall, I suggest buying a PS2. The one and only advantage of Xbox is the superior hardware; all other big points are scored by PS2.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: [Completly OT] Xbox or PS2?*



			
				Zappo said:
			
		

> *snip*




A few points.

Regarding the graphics being about the same. That's actualy wrong. The problem is, and the reason why so many people think that, is that most games out for the 'box right now are ports from older systems... some as old as the Dreamcast... and have, as a result, identical graphics. Further, the X-Box can handle HD games, which the PS2 cannot. The X-Box CAN handle graphics that far outstrip the PS2. It's just that this has only been done rarely.

Regarding used games... this is sort of a red herring... it's as easy to find used games for the 'box as it is for any other system, at least around here.

Next, the X-Box library of games is growing rather rapidly, including some X-Box exclusive ones. 

Don't forget X-Box Live, which is a very good deal, if you have a broadband 'net connection.

Note, too, that the PS2 is not without it's hardware flaws... the DVD player, for example, is flawed in a good number of PS2s. Not all, but enough. As well, the PS2 does have crashes from time to time as a result. I've had GTA3 crash on me, for example. (Well... lock up.)


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## Zappo (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: Re: Re: [Completly OT] Xbox or PS2?*



			
				Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Regarding the graphics being about the same. That's actualy wrong. The problem is, and the reason why so many people think that, is that most games out for the 'box right now are ports from older systems... some as old as the Dreamcast... and have, as a result, identical graphics. Further, the X-Box can handle HD games, which the PS2 cannot. The X-Box CAN handle graphics that far outstrip the PS2. It's just that this has only been done rarely.*



Ok. Let me correct my statement: I haven't seen any Xbox game which had _substantially_ better graphics than a good PS2 game. In any case, we haven't seen the top graphic for either of the systems yet - Xbox for the reasons you mentioned, and PS2 because it's hard to program and the developers haven't yet mastered it (just as it happened with PS1, I expect latest games to be substantially better than the early ones).*



			Regarding used games... this is sort of a red herring... it's as easy to find used games for the 'box as it is for any other system, at least around here.
		
Click to expand...


*Yes, that's why I suggested that it may or may not be a factor. Where I live, the used market for PS2 is huge while there is no used market for Xbox. Again, Xbox is much more present in the USA than in any other country, and since LV lives in the UK, he'd better check how the used market works in his country before making a decision.







> *Next, the X-Box library of games is growing rather rapidly, including some X-Box exclusive ones.*



A rapid growth is just to be expected, as are exclusive titles. But the PS2 library is growing faster, and it has exclusive titles as well. Really, it's just a matter of proportions.







> *Don't forget X-Box Live, which is a very good deal, if you have a broadband 'net connection.*



I can't comment on this. I haven't been able to get solid facts about either broadband system. I do know that it is possible to connect a PS2 to the internet with a simple and cheap ethernet USB cable if you have a PC; no need to purchase additional thingies. Tony Hawk 2 allowed that, long before the online kit was available. In any case, online capabilty for a console is a _very_ new and unexplored concept, and every house is taking a different approach. There is no way right now to know which will be better.







> *Note, too, that the PS2 is not without it's hardware flaws... the DVD player, for example, is flawed in a good number of PS2s. Not all, but enough. As well, the PS2 does have crashes from time to time as a result. I've had GTA3 crash on me, for example. (Well... lock up.) *



I've never heard of such problems (and my brother used to play GTA3 for hours). I guess you can't ever be sure of anything.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

> I can't comment on this. I haven't been able to get solid facts about either broadband system. I do know that it is possible to connect a PS2 to the internet with a simple and cheap ethernet USB cable if you have a PC; no need to purchase additional thingies. Tony Hawk 2 allowed that, long before the online kit was available. In any case, online capabilty for a console is a very new and unexplored concept, and every house is taking a different approach. There is no way right now to know which will be better.




You can do this with the 'box too. Live is something else entierly, of which there is no equivilant at this time for PS2 or 'cube (At least in America, perhaps there is in Japan). 

Well, it's not exactly "something else entierly"... it just sorta makes it alot easier and more user-friendly. It's kinda like the old T.E.N. network for computer games. It makes it easier to find games and players, basicly. And the subscription fee is very modest, unlike those old services.


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## boxstop7 (Dec 9, 2002)

Here's how I see it...

Do you have an original Playstation (I know you said "recent console, but I'm unsure how you're defining "recent")?  If so, do you have some classic PSone games you'd love to keep playing?  If you've answered "yes", then the PS2 is definitely for you due to its backward compatibility.  But, on all other points, I'm firmly in the Xbox camp.  And here's why:

- superior graphics:  yes, it's true that the Xbox has fewer games right now.  but it has one significant graphical advantage over the PS2.  Full-scene anti-aliasing (FSAA), once considered the grail of console gaming.  FSAA will give you a much smoother, much nicer picture and the PS2 is flat-out not capable of it (FSAA eliminates the jagged edges in image display, just in case you didn't know )  for some reason, no one has yet deveolped a game that fully abuses the Xbox graphics chip.  but it'll come.  and when it does, it will be good.

- superior output:  the Xbox is capable of HD output and digital 5.1 sound.  if you've got a good A/V receiver, it'll all be worth it.  

- hardware is NOT the same:  I hate to argue Zappo (and I know I'll ultimately regret it...), but the hardware comparison really isn't even close.  you may want to check out this link for a quick comparison.  it doesn't cover everything, but it's a start.  the Xbox has a core processor over 400 MHz faster, a clock speed double that of the PS2, a GeForce2-based graphics processor and an internal hard drive.  all things the PS2 will ultimately make you pay for in the form of add-ons.

- breakaway controllers:  may seem trivial, but I love this feature.  (mind you, the controllers themselves take a little while to get used to)  if you've got a lot of clumsy idiots running around, then can trip over your controller cables without sending the console crashing to the ground b/c the controller cables have a sweet breakaway feature to prevent this from happening.

- internal hard drive:  no more friggin' memory cards.  the internal 8 GB hard drive takes care of that problem.  yes, the PS2 will eventually have a hard drive, but it'll most likely be external and you'll have to go buy it (prolly in the $40-$80 range)

Ultimately, the choice is yours.  But IMHO, the Xbox has FAR more potential for growth than the PS2, because of the features I've mentioned above and more.  Oh yeah, and the Xbox Live! thing is just seriously cool.  Of course, Xbox is a microsoft product, and some people have serious moral objections to purchasing from Bill Gates.  But I really think the Xbox is a flat-out better machine and we'll see its full potential slowly unlocked in the near future.

~Box


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## shadowlight (Dec 9, 2002)

Well, I bought an XBox a few months ago and I couldn't be happier with it.  I'd rented PS2s and XBoxs several times so I've played them both... 

As far as pure hardware goes, XBox is WAY more powerful than the PS2 (I mean it DID come out like a year and a half later, and you know how fast the computer industry moves).  However, PS2 and XBox games look roughly equivalent since companies haven't pushed the XBox anywhere near its limits yet (this will definitely be changing throughout 2003).

Also I really like the hard drive on the XBox.  You don't have to buy separate memory cards to save your games like you have to do on the PS2 (but you _can_ get one if you want to take your saved game to your friend's `box)

None of the other consoles have anything like XBox Live.  It's easy to get on and you only have to sign up once (where as with PS2 you'll have to sign up for something different with each title and you have to buy your network adapter separately), and it has a lot of cool features like the voice communicator and the player matching service.

Also, Mechassault will have new downloadable content (starting in January... new `mechs, new arenas, new multiplayer game types, etc.) from XBox Live to your hard drive.  This is something that you won't see on a PS2.

Personally I've been playing a LOT of *Halo* for XBox.  A friend in my D&D gaming group picked up an XBox and networking the machines directly together was _easy_ and a TOTAL blast!  (In fact, our networked Halo games took over our D&D sessions for about a month 4 players on two TVs... oh yeah!!!)  I'm not a big FPS fan, but this is by far the funnest game I've _ever_ played!  (If you end up getting a PS2 then definitely rent an XBox to play this game!)

Hope that helps


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 9, 2002)

I haven't bought any (but my sister has a PS2), and never really planned on getting a game console, since I have a lot of PC games. Up until this point, if I were to get one, it would have been the PS2, for the commonly stated reasons (best game library, particularly RPGs).

But as of a couple weeks ago, I decided to get an X-Box. Why? STEEL BATTALION. A gaming experience that you can't get anywhere else. You pilot a giant robot using the lord of all controllers, which has 2 joysticks, 40 buttons, 3 foot pedals. For someone who grew up on Voltron and Robotech cartoons like me, it's irresistible.

Bottom line: It depends on what games you want to play. Check out the game libraries available for each system, paying particular attention to the exclusive games.


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## shadowlight (Dec 9, 2002)

Oh yeah!  I forgot about the breakaway controllers!  I LOVE this feature... I've got 2 kids and this has already saved my XBox more times than I care to count.  With my old N64, if you tripped over a controller cord, the console ended up on the floor...


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## Zappo (Dec 9, 2002)

boxstop7 said:
			
		

> *- hardware is NOT the same:  I hate to argue Zappo (and I know I'll ultimately regret it...)*



Huh? Hey, I've never said that the hardware is the same. All the opposite (read my first post again). What I did say is that I haven't seen any Xbox game with substantially better graphic than a good PS2 game. There are a number of reasons for that, besides hardware power, from marketing tactics to programmer experience. I'll grab the occasion to say that hardware is not the only, and not the main, reason for choosing a console over another. What the hell, it's not even the only reason for which a console's graphics look better. You can't think about consoles the way you think about PCs.

BTW, there are IR controllers for the PS2 too. I would have bought one, but I didn't like the design (too big, though not as big as Xbox's controllers). Right now, I'm preserving the console by placing it on the floor. 

edit: a note about FSAA.
FSAA uses a _lot_ of computing power. Additionally, a TV screen is naturally less definite than a monitor, so FSAA on a console makes less of an impact than it does on a PC (of course, we're not talking about a HDTV here). For this reasons, I think that developers choose to add more polygons to their models instead of using FSAA, unless the game has many high-contrast scenes where FSAA makes a large impact.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

Zappo said:
			
		

> *BTW, there are IR controllers for the PS2 too. I would have bought one, but I didn't like the design (too big, though not as big as Xbox's controllers). Right now, I'm preserving the console by placing it on the floor.
> 
> edit: a note about FSAA.
> FSAA uses a lot of computing power. Additionally, a TV screen is naturally less definite than a monitor, so FSAA on a console makes less of an impact than it does on a PC (of course, we're not talking about a HDTV here). For this reasons, I think that developers choose to add more polygons to their models instead of using FSAA, unless the game has many high-contrast scenes where FSAA makes a large impact. *




Breakaway controllers aren't the same as IR... I hate IR controllers, myself (I hate anything that involves batteries in any way, shape, or form... hell, my watch is clockwork, not digital... not to mention they tend to be bulky...)... Breakaway controllers are a normal corded controller (Albiet, with a long cord) that is segmented... About a foot from the consol, there is a junction that is designed to come apart if too much pressure is put on the cord... long before any stress is put on the actual connection to the console. Very nice... has saved my X-Box a short trip a couple of times already.

And I think that you underestimate the importance of HDTV support...  HDTV's havn't acheived much market pentration yet, true, but they are out there. And their market share is growing, slowly. I think that the ability to support HDTV (And, by extension, the ability to do FSAA and such) is going to rise.


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## Vigilant Fiend (Dec 9, 2002)

*PS2 or X-box ?*

Personaly I supprot the PS2 whole heartedly. The reason for this is pretty much the game choice. In my opinion the Ps2 games are a lot better (i.e. final fantasy, tekken, tribes, kingdom hearts, bloody roar.....). Me and my friends spend several hours a day playing the Ps2 and we never tire of it. The Ps2 has better fighting games, better rpgs, and can play old ps favorites. Also another point to make is that the X-box was aptly named do to the size and shape of its conttroller.(try playing any fighting game with it!)


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## Henry (Dec 9, 2002)

Moved to Software & Computers Forum.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

*Re: PS2 or X-box ?*



			
				Vigilant Fiend said:
			
		

> *Also another point to make is that the X-box was aptly named do to the size and shape of its conttroller.(try playing any fighting game with it!) *




Actualy, a fighting game designed to use the X-Box controller (As opposed to, say, trying to cram a PS2 control setup onto the 'box controller) works just fine. DOA3 is probably one of the best (if not the best) fighting games I have ever played, in terms of control and fluidity, as well as balance and overall fun-factor.

Not to mention the amazing graphics in that game....

*edit*

Two other points:

1) Some of us with larger-than-petite hands actualy rather LIKE having a controller that is designed for the hands of an adult male.

2) For those that have smaller hands, just go buy the smaller controller. It's been availible via e-bay or similar since day 1, and you can buy it in stores right along side the normal one now.


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## Zappo (Dec 9, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *Breakaway controllers aren't the same as IR*



Whoops.







> *And I think that you underestimate the importance of HDTV support...  HDTV's havn't acheived much market pentration yet, true, but they are out there. And their market share is growing, slowly. I think that the ability to support HDTV (And, by extension, the ability to do FSAA and such) is going to rise.*



OTOH, it doesn't matter whether HDTV is common or not, it only matters whether *Lord Vangarel* has HDTV or not.  
More on the larger picture, I am confidant that by the time HDTV has a large enough market penetration, both Xbox and PS2 will have been replaced by their next generation counterparts. We don't have any information on their specs (Microsoft hasn't said anything, and Sony's specs are literally insane - no way they are true), but I think we can safely assume that they both will support FSAA. In any case, FSAA is computationally costly so I wouldn't be surprised if most games on the Xbox didn't use it, even in the future.


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## drothgery (Dec 9, 2002)

boxstop7 said:
			
		

> *the Xbox has a core processor over 400 MHz faster, a clock speed double that of the PS2, a GeForce2-based graphics processor and an internal hard drive.  all things the PS2 will ultimately make you pay for in the form of add-ons.*




The Xchip is a GeForce 3-based GPU, not a GeForce 2-based GPU.



			
				boxstop7 said:
			
		

> *- internal hard drive:  no more friggin' memory cards.  the internal 8 GB hard drive takes care of that problem.  yes, the PS2 will eventually have a hard drive, but it'll most likely be external and you'll have to go buy it (prolly in the $40-$80 range)
> *




AFAIK, Sony hasn't announced any plans to sell the PS2 hard drive outside of Japan. Incidentally, this means that FF XI will probably only be available as a PC game here.

Of course, my advice is to get both.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

drothgery said:
			
		

> *Of course, my advice is to get both.  *




Seconded!

Avoid the cube... it's a waste of money 

I think Sony has said that they will release the HD over here in limited quantities... purely because of FF online. 

Not that I care... I want to play my MMORPGs on the PC, darnit, not a console


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## drothgery (Dec 9, 2002)

Zappo said:
			
		

> *Whoops.OTOH, it doesn't matter whether HDTV is common or not, it only matters whether *Lord Vangarel* has HDTV or not.
> More on the larger picture, I am confidant that by the time HDTV has a large enough market penetration, both Xbox and PS2 will have been replaced by their next generation counterparts. We don't have any information on their specs (Microsoft hasn't said anything, and Sony's specs are literally insane - no way they are true), but I think we can safely assume that they both will support FSAA. In any case, FSAA is computationally costly so I wouldn't be surprised if most games on the Xbox didn't use it, even in the future. *




Microsoft's a lot easier to project, though; the Xbox 2 will be pretty close to a cutting-edge PC the year it's released. Sony seems intent on using an architecture that's even more esoteric than the PS2.


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## Zappo (Dec 9, 2002)

drothgery said:
			
		

> *Microsoft's a lot easier to project, though; the Xbox 2 will be pretty close to a cutting-edge PC the year it's released. Sony seems intent on using an architecture that's even more esoteric than the PS2.*



"Esoteric" is the right word. I just plainly don't believe what they are saying. The technology they talk about is just too weird and experimental to be used in a gaming console; they can't possibly have it ready and cost-effective for 2005 or whatever the year is.


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## CTD (Dec 9, 2002)

The best advice you will ever get:
(and yes I'm being biased).

Rent them first. Even the GameCube. Blockbuster can rent any of them to you and will have a nice selection of the latest games (and you can ask the clerk's which ones rent the most to get an idea of what the 'best' games for each console are).

This is what I did a year ago. My rankings (at that time) were:

1. Xbox
2. PS2
3. GC

GameCube was too 'kiddy' for me at the time, despite being a good machine (also has better hardware than PS2, but not as good as Xbox). PS2 was a great system, with a great library, but it didn't have the visual power that an Xbox did. Xbox was number one for potential. It had enough games for my tatstes, stood to get even better as it's library expanded, and had the longest shelf-life at that point due to the power of the system.

One year later I have bumped the GameCube up to #2 and the PS2 falls to #3. 

Why? Well, XBox is starting to get titles in good volume that show it's power over a PS2. GameCube has come out with some great titles that are starting to lure me in, (plus it costs the least of the 3). Metroid Prime and Animal Crossing make me *want* a Game Cube. The PS2 has very few exclusive titles that won't be on XBox or GC, and none of the exclusives it does have this year make me care. So every game that I would be interested in on a PS2 can be found on the XBox...

Whatever you do decide on, don't buy until after Christmas. Word on the street has been building up rumor about another price drop for all three...


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## Apok (Dec 9, 2002)

Seeing as how the discussion has been primarily about hardware, allow me to give you my radical point of view...

The hardware is irrelevant.

Why are you buying this system?  If you are buying it to show it off to your friends so they can stare and say, "oooooh, check out the hardware specs on _ that _ baby!" then you should definitely grab the Xbox.  However, I would assume that you are going to buy a console for the purpouse it was intended for; playing games.

The games selection should be your only mode of comparison, IMO.  True, alot of third party developers are going the multi-platform route with most of their games but both Xbox and PS2 will have their share of exclusive titles and those are what you should be looking at.  Don't buy a console because it's the most advanced one at the time, buy it because it plays the games you like.  

Just as an example, Namco was releasing it's Tekken series soley on PS2.  That about did it for me.

People who stare at hardware specs and mumble things about the nebulous 'future' should realize that once the future gets here, you'll be dealing with a slew of new consoles boasting the latest & greatest that modern technology has to offer.  Sure, the look and design of console games will get a little better for both systems down the road and the Xbox has the advantage here due to its hardware.  However, don't delude yourself into thinking it's going to be so noticeable you'll be screaming, "Wow!  This is like nothing I've ever seen before!  I'm amazed they haven't tapped this potential before now!"  By the time developers start taking advantage of each systems full capabilities, both Sony and Microsoft will be hard at work marketing the PS3 and Xbox2.  

So, just to recap, find out what kind of console games you'd be interested in playing and research the two systems from that angle.  That's the way to do it and I assure you that you will be glad you did.


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## Baron Von StarBlade (Dec 9, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Avoid the cube... it's a waste of money
> 
> *




  Actually I would say the same thing about an X-box. It reminds me of the N64, ie the best game it has is also one of its first gen games. Since Halo the box really hasn't done anything.


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## WSmith (Dec 9, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Seconded!
> 
> ...




I am just curious, I was thinking of getting one, just cause they are so cheap, (I got a coupon wich brings it down to $124).  Any particular reasons why?  I haven't bought a console game since SNES, so I don't know much and don't want to make a bad choice.


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## Hollywood (Dec 9, 2002)

Apok said:
			
		

> People who stare at hardware specs and mumble things about the nebulous 'future' should realize that once the future gets here, you'll be dealing with a slew of new consoles boasting the latest & greatest that modern technology has to offer.




And that PCs will always be more technically superior.. so buy a PC.  

That is unless of course you like fighting games, such as DOA, then get a console too!


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

WSmith said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I am just curious, I was thinking of getting one, just cause they are so cheap, (I got a coupon wich brings it down to $124).  Any particular reasons why?  I haven't bought a console game since SNES, so I don't know much and don't want to make a bad choice. *




Eh, don't pay too much attention to me... 

My basic gripes with the 'cube are:

It is the only one of the three systems that has NO ability to play DVDs (Can anyone tell me if it even plays music CDs?)

No games (Not one) out for it right now that I want.

A controller that was designed by a demented student of M.C. Esher.


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## RyanL (Dec 9, 2002)

Don't dismiss the Gamecube too quickly, especially if you have kids.  If I had kids, I think I would actually encourage them to play Animal Crossing.

-Ryan


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## WSmith (Dec 9, 2002)

RyanL said:
			
		

> *Don't dismiss the Gamecube too quickly, especially if you have kids.  If I had kids, I think I would actually encourage them to play Animal Crossing.
> 
> -Ryan *




I do have kids, and they love the Mario type games. 

I don't really care if it plays DVD's, it is going in the family room where the big TV and the DVD player is anyway.  

I checked the game lists for those available, and found what I like:

BG: Dark Alliance
D&D Heroes (not released yet)
Skies of Arcadia Legends (n.r.y.)
LotR: Two Towers
Ghost Recon
SW: Clone Wars
Legend of Zelda Wind Walker (n.y.r.)
Pac-Man World 2 (this one is for my wife, she loves Ms. Pac-Man)

Those are the ones off the top of my head I remember looking for. 

Sure, it doens't have GTA III: Vice City, but I don't think I want the children playing that anyway.


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## RyanL (Dec 9, 2002)

WSmith:

You're preaching to the choir, man.   I already have a Gamecube.

Personally, I would only buy a PS2 at this point if I had a huge library of PSOne games.  Otherwise, I'd be considering XBox vs. Gamecube.  XBox is pretty compelling, but I'm not ashamed to admit that I still get a rise out of Mario, Zelda, and Metroid, so Gamecube was the choice for me.  
I'm really looking forward to playing Madden 2003 in widescreen mode on the HDTV that I bought myself for Christmas.  I'll actually be able to see Joe Horn run his route, instead of having to guess where he is.  

-Ryan


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 9, 2002)

A couple points since most of this has been discussed.

  # of Games. As a general rule this is a red herring, most games are multi-platform so this basically means crap.  2 X-Box has well over 100 games, many of which rock, there comes a point where the my system has more means very little and X-Box has already passed it.  

Exclusive games is the only thing game content wise I'd look at.  Me I'm happy I have both because I love tekken for my fighting games and PS2 has tekken 4, I also love DOA and who got DOA X-BOx.  Halo rocks, as probably will HaLO2, splinter cell so far has rocked and I beleive that is X-BOx exclusive I could go on for both sides.  Basically when it coes down to which games then numbers and vast majority of games is meaningless, clook to see which games are exclusive and if that means you can't live without that system.

Oh and gamecube rocks just for SUPER MONKEY BALL.   For the life of me I can't fugure out why this game is such a blast.


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## Baron Von StarBlade (Dec 9, 2002)

Shard O'Glase said:
			
		

> *
> # of Games. As a general rule this is a red herring, most games are multi-platform so this basically means crap.  2 X-Box has well over 100 games, many of which rock, there comes a point where the my system has more means very little and X-Box has already passed it.
> *




  Well that isn't quite true, the PS2 has hundreds of game that will never make it over to be ported.  They aren't really _exclusive_ it's just they were put out before any other console system existed.
  Now moving forward I agree, that all new games coming out are going to be on all systems, with the exception of the _exclusive_ titles (Metroid Prime, Tekken, Resident Evil. . ) That to me is where the Xbox falls short. It really doesn't have any game makers who will pump out games only for them. Which you pretty much hit on in your next comment.


> *
> splinter cell so far has rocked and I beleive that is X-BOx exclusive
> *



 Nope it's coming to all three systems, it was just released on the Box first.



> *
> Oh and gamecube rocks just for SUPER MONKEY BALL.   For the life of me I can't fugure out why this game is such a blast. *



I'm ashamed to admit I've never played Super Monkey balls. I have only heard awesome things about it. One of these days I'll get around to picking it up. Of course that does bring up something that seems to be overlooked about consoles, not so much multiplayer as party games. Games like Mario Party, Super Monkey balls (I think), that you can get three or four guys sit around and have a blast. I don't think any of the systems (other than the GC) cater to that type of situation.


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## wolff96 (Dec 9, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *My basic gripes with the 'cube are:
> 
> It is the only one of the three systems that has NO ability to play DVDs (Can anyone tell me if it even plays music CDs?) *




It doesn't play music CDs.  However, since it's at the bottom of the stack that also contains my stereo system, CD Player, and DVD player, it didn't make much difference to me. 

Obviously we have different opinions here -- support for other media makes not a lick of difference to me when I'm buying a console.

*



			No games (Not one) out for it right now that I want.
		
Click to expand...


*
That's obviously not something debateable. But between Metroid Prime, Mario Sunshine, Super Smash Brothers Melee (best party game, ever), and the upcoming titles...  Wow, we just have very different taste in games, obviously.  

*



			A controller that was designed by a demented student of M.C. Esher.
		
Click to expand...


*
This was the reason I had to post. You're defending the _X-BOX_ and you bring up controllers??  I'm an adult male.  My hands actually fit on the controller. And yet, I hate it with a passion. The reach, the spacing on the buttons, and the stretch to hit the shoulder buttons make playing an X-Box game a massive chore. I own one of the smaller controllers and that helps a bit, but I still don't like the configurations on any of the X-Box controllers available.

The Gamecube controller may look a tad odd to you, but it is the most comfortable and (more importantly IMO) usable controllers currently on the market. And that's spoken as somone that has them all. 

It's also a lot easier for someone to pick up a Gamecube controller and play with it if they are not a "gamer"...  They don't have to worry about which shoulder button does what function.  This is something I really appreciate since I often have friends over to play games that only play games when they hang out at my house.


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## WSmith (Dec 9, 2002)

What timing? look what got email to my inbox from Gamespy Daily. :

http://www.forumplanet.com/gamespy/topic.asp?fid=1422&tid=900603


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 9, 2002)

Baron Von StarBlade said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Now moving forward I agree, that all new games coming out are going to be on all systems, with the exception of the exclusive titles (Metroid Prime, Tekken, Resident Evil. . ) That to me is where the Xbox falls short. It really doesn't have any game makers who will pump out games only for them. Which you pretty much hit on in your next comment.
> 
> ...




OK splinter cell is going to all 3.  But exclusive titles X-Box has a plenty, besides the obvious microsoft games, some publishers just are making x-box exclusive games I'm guessing because of the ease of making and or port from PC. For example on the fighting game side the DOA games are X-Box exclusve.  My point is they all have a decent number of exclusive games f your only geting 1 system its important to look at the exclsuive title sand see which ones would be hard to live without.  For me in all honesty if I oculd only have 1 system it would be PS2, two reasons I like all fighting games but PS2 has my faovrite Tekken, and PS2 has the grand theft license which Vice City I've probably put 50+ hours into and I still am only 33% through the game.  While I oved Halo and DOA3 I ust prefer Tekken4 and GTA vice city.


Oh and you gotta play super monkey ball its a great group game(I understand there is a sequal out which I haven't got yet), which is the area the game cube reigns supreme.  PS2 group wise I like though for the attachemnt that lets me plug in lots o controllers.  Thisis very specific but I think Basketball games are a blast with 4 friends so you can cover each position.  Both the cube and X-box start with 4 controller slots so I don't think they feel the need for a mulitport thingy, which stops you from getting up to 5 the number of position in B-Ball.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

> ) That to me is where the Xbox falls short. It really doesn't have any game makers who will pump out games only for them.




I really don't mean to come off rude or anything, but what alternate reality are you living in? Go to gamespot.com and check the list of upcomming x-box titles... TONS of them are X-Box exclusives. And there are quite a few out already, many quite good (Halo, Hunter, Steel Battalion, Mech Assault, Morrowind...) (Ok, that last one technicly is out on the PC too, but I'm not counting the PC right now). 



> This was the reason I had to post. You're defending the X-BOX and you bring up controllers?? I'm an adult male. My hands actually fit on the controller. And yet, I hate it with a passion. The reach, the spacing on the buttons, and the stretch to hit the shoulder buttons make playing an X-Box game a massive chore. I own one of the smaller controllers and that helps a bit, but I still don't like the configurations on any of the X-Box controllers available.
> 
> The Gamecube controller may look a tad odd to you, but it is the most comfortable and (more importantly IMO) usable controllers currently on the market. And that's spoken as somone that has them all.




Yet, conversely, I have never found a controller I like as much as the 'box's controller. Ever. The only close second is a MadCatz controller I had for the N-64, which oddly enough, was stylisticly very similar to the X-Box controller, both in size and general control layout.

And I've used the Gamecube controller plenty, I might add... I have friends who have the 'cube, and I play it over at their places plenty. I don't find it unusualy comfortable (It's not UNCOMFORTABLE, just nothing special), and I find it... awkward, basicly. 

It's a personal opinion thing, I suppose... But I know several people around here who agree with me.

And, again, I bring up the fact that if you don't like the "standard" x-box controller, they do offer a different model.


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 9, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> But as of a couple weeks ago, I decided to get an X-Box. Why? STEEL BATTALION. A gaming experience that you can't get anywhere else. You pilot a giant robot using the lord of all controllers, which has 2 joysticks, 40 buttons, 3 foot pedals. For someone who grew up on Voltron and Robotech cartoons like me, it's irresistible.
> 
> Bottom line: It depends on what games you want to play. Check out the game libraries available for each system, paying particular attention to the exclusive games. *




I'm not going to say buy X-Box now instead of PS2 for this game.  But dang as soon as I can get this game I'm getting it.  Not sure it balances the GTA and Tekken angle, but bwahahahahha 40 buttons 2 joysticks, 3 foot pedals, oh and you forgot the lever thingy that looks like the thrusts lever in jets.  For those who care it will be a Capcom game, when I saw this in some magazine a few months back I drooled.


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 9, 2002)

Controllers

I'm not sure which I put up as the best the PS2 or the X-Box becaue I like different things out of both of them.  PS2 I like the L1,2, and R1,2 instead of just a L and R, almost everything else I'm good with.  I dislike its analog controlls I think they feel clumsy. 

 X-Box I like there analog controlls and almost everything else, I dislike the white and black button for me I find there placing less than intuitive so I have trouble hitting it quickly, i've somewhat gotten used to it but with multiple platforms sometimes I need a warm up period for the X-box white and black buttons.  

Gamecube I'm ok with overall, but it's a little small and is uncomfortable to me.  

If I could combine the X-box and PS2 controllers I'd be in hog heaven, for exmaple if I had the X-Box controller but they moved the white and black buttons to a L2 and R2 position or just added a L2 and R2 and let you turn them into the black and white buttons I'd do my happy dance.


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## shadowlight (Dec 9, 2002)

Baron Von StarBlade said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Actually I would say the same thing about an X-box. It reminds me of the N64, ie the best game it has is also one of its first gen games. Since Halo the box really hasn't done anything. *




Wow!  You haven't played MechAssault yet, have you?!


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

shadowlight said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Wow!  You haven't played MechAssault yet, have you?! *




Or, for that matter, ever played SSB for the N64...


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## wolff96 (Dec 9, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *And, again, I bring up the fact that if you don't like the "standard" x-box controller, they do offer a different model. *




Actually, I mentioned that I have both controllers. 

I pretty much hate them equally.

It's obviously a personal opinion, though, so we'll have to agree to disagree. All the systems have good games. All of them have acceptable hardware.

Really, I was trying to avoid picking up a 'Cube and rounding out my addiction, but the Nintendo-exclusive titles wouldn't let me... and now I find it hard to play the other two systems because I like the Gamecube controller so much better.

By the way, I'd like to second whoever recommended Mech Assault. That's an awesome title, assuming you have the online adapter.


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## Ristamar (Dec 9, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *I haven't bought any (but my sister has a PS2), and never really planned on getting a game console, since I have a lot of PC games. Up until this point, if I were to get one, it would have been the PS2, for the commonly stated reasons (best game library, particularly RPGs).
> 
> But as of a couple weeks ago, I decided to get an X-Box. Why? STEEL BATTALION. A gaming experience that you can't get anywhere else. You pilot a giant robot using the lord of all controllers, which has 2 joysticks, 40 buttons, 3 foot pedals. For someone who grew up on Voltron and Robotech cartoons like me, it's irresistible.
> 
> Bottom line: It depends on what games you want to play. Check out the game libraries available for each system, paying particular attention to the exclusive games. *




You forgot to mention that it costs $200, and you can't play the game at all without the behemoth controller.

I'll be the first to admit that Steel Battalion looks damn cool, but I don't think I could bring myself to spend $150 for a controller I basically use for 1 game.

Anyway, I posted this bit about a month ago in another thread, and I'll plop it down here, as well.  You can ignore the Gamecube stuff, obviously, if it doesn't interest you.



> PS2 Pros:
> - Immense library of games
> - GTA, Tekken, Metal Gear, and Gran Turismo series are exclusive to PS2, for now
> - Lots of RPG's, Final Fantasy being the most noteworthy
> ...




A couple of notes since this was first posted...

-  Metal Gear Solid 2 is now available on XBOX.  Graphically, it's the same as the PS2 version (save for a few framerate hickups), but it includes some new bonus missions.

- XBOX Live is up and running with close to a dozen titles, I believe.  If online console gaming is extremely important to you, XBOX is the way to go right now, though it only runs on broadband (sorry dial-up users, no soup for you).  Currently, Mech Assault seems to be the best of the XBOX Live bunch.  Sony and Nintendo have recently signed middleware agreements with Sega for online titles, but still have yet to launch large online strategies.

- If you're a total mech freak, it's hard to top Steel Battalion on XBOX, if you're willing to drop two benjamins on it.  Unfortunately, this game has no XBOX Live support...  it's inexplicable, and nearly inexcusable.  

- Splinter Cell will be available on PC this month, and in February or March on GC and PS2.

- For those that are interested, two Gamecube tidbits:  Nintendo is releasing a GBA player that will attach to the bottom of the 'Cube, allowing you to play GBA titles on your TV.  It will be released in the U.S. around May 2003 and retail between 40 and 50 dollars.  Second, Nintendo will be offering a special promotion for those that pre-order the new Legend of Zelda game coming to the Gamecube.  Starting February 16th (or earlier, depending on where you order from), purchasers will receive what is arguably the greatest game of all time, Zelda: Ocarina of Time w/ previously unreleased expansion material all on one Gamecube disc absolutely free on the spot.

- Not that it means anything, but Sony has been rather quiet this holiday season.  Most big news has been coming out of the Nintendo and XBOX camps.  GTA: Vice City, the PS2's hottest exclusive, has been out since October, and it's hype (and Game of the Year potential) has recently been trumped by Metroid Prime.  Of course, considering the staggering lead in console sales Sony has over its competitors, I don't think they're too concerned.

Here's a link to an old console discussion.


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## shadowlight (Dec 9, 2002)

Ristamar,

That's an excellent summary!  

The one thing that I'd add to the XBox pros is the built in ethernet port.  It makes it incredibly easy to connect 2 consoles for Multiplayer / Multiscreen gaming.  (I've done this a lot with Halo, Unreal, and MechAssault).


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

Ristamar said:
			
		

> *- If you're a total mech freak, it's hard to top Steel Batallion on XBOX, if you're willing to drop two benjamins on it. Unfortunately, this game has no XBOX Live support... it's inexplicable, and nearly inexcusable. *




It's not inexplicable in the slightest, actualy. It's a question of market penetration, basicly... Capcom took a BIG risk with Steel Batallion... they had no idea how it was going to sell, due to the large investment. They made a fairly small number of units, as I understand it, as a result. Not knowing if Steel Batallion would be accepted or not, they decided not to go through the extra work of adding Live support, and reworking some parts of gameplay to work with multiple players. They have said that, if the sales seem to warrent it, Steel Battalion 2 (Which will, of course, require the original for the controller) will be multiplayer.

And FWIW, Steel Batallion has owned me since the day I got it. My gaming group and I blew off an entire game session just to take turns playing it. It's an experience you have to have.


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## Ristamar (Dec 9, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It's not inexplicable in the slightest, actualy. It's a question of market penetration, basicly... Capcom took a BIG risk with Steel Batallion... they had no idea how it was going to sell, due to the large investment. They made a fairly small number of units, as I understand it, as a result. Not knowing if Steel Batallion would be accepted or not, they decided not to go through the extra work of adding Live support, and reworking some parts of gameplay to work with multiple players. They have said that, if the sales seem to warrent it, Steel Battalion 2 (Which will, of course, require the original for the controller) will be multiplayer.*




I disagree that Steel Battalion was a huge risk for Capcom.  Microsoft approached Capcom and basically said, “If you could make any game you wanted, what would it be?”  Capcom proposed what would become Steel Battalion.  Microsoft gave Capcom a few fat wads of cash to develop it, so the financial risk for Capcom was minimized, if not eliminated.  Capcom would have never developed such a game without Microsoft’s financial backing.  And, of course, the venture is hardly a risk for Microsoft since they’ve plunged billions of dollars into XBOX and XBOX Live advertising, development, and support and don’t appear to be backing off any time soon.  Financing a single niche game that may or may not make money doesn’t concern MS in the least.  They’re simply enjoying the hype generated by such a game.

That being said, I feel that if I’m going to put down 200 dollars for one game, a game that is practically screaming for multiplayer action, it should have XBOX Live support, regardless of promises of online sequels.  I think a more plausible explanation is that they didn’t want Steel Battalion competing with Mech Assault online, hoping mech fans will purchase both separately for single player and multiplayer experiences, and/or they wanted to make sure it was out in time for the holiday season, so they reneged online support to save development time.


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 9, 2002)

Hi, everybody! I've read through the thread, but I can't make a decision either. I've owned the PS One and Dreamcast and have enjoyed both, but now I'm looking to get a DVD player that can play some games, too. So, it's either a PS2 or an Xbox. 

In my opinion, the PS2 has A LOT of great games and I can trade games and get opinions from the masses of people who own one, too. The Xbox seems to have better graphics and it's a newer system, but it doesn't have some games I really want to play like GTA3. 

Anyhow, I was going to get a PS2 but now I'm leaning towards an Xbox. But I still can't make a decision. Do you think you can help me?

Here are the things that are most important to me:

1. DVD player: I hear the PS2's DVD player doesn't always work and the Xbox one is better, but you have to buy a remote to even play DVD's. Does the Xbox DVD always work? 

2. GTA3: I guess I could play it on my PC, but I hear it gets real choppy and the reason why I want to play games on the console is because it's more fun. I like playing strategy games on the PC, but when it's action or graphics, I prefer consoles. GTA3 was going to be released on the Xbox, too, but now PS2 has an exclusive license on it. 

3. Fighting games: Friends coming over always like to play fighting games. For the Xbox, I hear DOA3 has pretty graphics, but it's not that fun. What good PS2 fighting games are there?

4. Adventure games: I really want to play PS2's weird adventure-type games like Okage. Personally, I don't like Japanese RPG's like Final Fantasy or Grandia, but it seems the PS2 has a lot of cool adventure games that exclusive to its system. What does the Xbox have?

5. LoTR games: This is a big question. Are they any good? Does it matter which system you play them on? They're not exclusive so it doesn't seem to a big factor in my decision of PS2 vs. Xbox, but I'd like to know if they're worth getting and which ones. 

6. Newness: The PS2 has been out for a while now, I'm wondering when they're going to come out with a "PS3". It doesn't seem like Microsoft will come out with an "Xbox2" anytime soon, so I feel like I'll be less "jipped". Also, everyone has a PS2 so it's kinda cool to have an Xbox, right?  Then again, if the PS3 comes out, I can still play my PS2 games on it probably. 

7. Style and size: The PS2 stands upright and looks cooler. The Xbox is so bulky and ugly. 

Overall, it seems like I'm leaning towards the PS2 but I'm very hesitant because it's been out much longer than the Xbox and there's of course the DVD factor.

Can anyone list me the best PS2 vs. Xbox games so I can make a better decision? Thanks!


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## WSmith (Dec 9, 2002)

Ristamar said:
			
		

> *- For those that are interested, two Gamecube tidbits:  Nintendo is releasing a GBA player that will attach to the bottom of the 'Cube, allowing you to play GBA titles on your TV.  It will be released in the U.S. around May 2003 and retail between 40 and 50 dollars.  Second, Nintendo will be offering a special promotion for those that pre-order the new Legend of Zelda game coming to the Gamecube.  Starting February 16th (or earlier, depending on where you order from), purchasers will receive what is arguably the greatest game of all time, Zelda: Ocarina of Time w/ previously unreleased expansion material all on one Gamecube disc absolutely free on the spot.
> 
> (SNIP)
> 
> - Not that it means anything, but Sony has been rather quiet this holiday season.  Most big news has been coming out of the Nintendo and XBOX camps.  GTA: Vice City, the PS2's hottest exclusive, has been out since October, and it's hype (and Game of the Year potential) has recently been trumped by Metroid Prime... *




On the Zelda matter, where did you hear this? Is this for real? If so I think my decision is made. 

On the Christmas push, I have been studying all the sale papers from Best Buy to Circut City to Comp USA. NO ONE seems to be budging on the price or giving away any goodies for either the PS2 or Xbox, (other than maybe a free $10 gift card from the store.) 

Now yesterday in the paper, I got an ad for a $25 mail in rebate for the Gamecube, and another MIR for $5 off a list of games for up to $25 off. THEN I look at the Circut City ad, and if you buy a GC and a game valued at $29 or up, you get the Wavebird controller free. Now that sounds like a deal to me.  

As far as the other two game systems, I don't really care about online gaming for my console cause my computer, and as I sadi before the DVD is not an issue for me. 

However, now I am in a strugle of "do I get the cube, or do I just spend the $300 I need to upgrade my PC to where is should be?"  There are two little words that keep me from running to Circut City to get the GC. 

Neverwinter Nights. 

Not only is my PC is very unstable with some newer games, (Ghost Recon froze quite a bit, and I have found a lot of incompadability issues with the ATI card, the motherboard, and the PCI bus. man what a mess  ) it doesn't meet the min for NWN.  However, if I can replace the motherboard with a new processor,  memory, and video card, I should be able to travel the sword coast, searching for adventure.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> *snip*




1) Some PS2 owners report problems, others do not. I think its safe to say that the ways of the PS2 DVD player are mysterious. And no, they don't all work... mine has problems with dozens of DVDs. Others it seems to like just fine. 

To contrast, although yes, I did have to pay 30 bucks for the remote (but, then I bought a 30 buck remote for the PS2 dvd player as well), I have never had a problem with my X-Box DVD player.

2) I have a fairly modest system by todays standards, (P 1ghz, Geforce 3), and I run GTA3 just fine. No choppy. And while GTA:VC won't be out for the 'box, it will still be out for the PC... the PS2 exclusive thing only applies to consoles.

3) Too many people dismiss the entire DOA series as being nothing but a T&A game. It's not. It's one of the best fighting games there are, IMO. Yes, up through DOA2 on the Dreamcast, DOA wasn't that hot. It's alot better now. Rent a 'box and play it before you dismiss it. As for what the PS2 has... well, it has buckets and buckets of medicore or worse fighting games... Tekken is one of the few it has that are any good, and frankly I prefer DOA to Tekken.

4) In terms of games like that, not a ton. The Onimushi (sp?) series, Metal Gear Solid 2: Substance, Shenmu... none of those are quite the same thing, though, I'll grant. About the only wierd one I can think of is Toejam and Earl... maybe Dragon Lair 3D, but I havn't played that one.

5) So-so, and no.

6) Eh... that's a gamble with any console. I wouldn't bet the farm on backwards compatibility for the PS3 though.

7) *shrug*


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## drothgery (Dec 9, 2002)

Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> *6. Newness: The PS2 has been out for a while now, I'm wondering when they're going to come out with a "PS3". It doesn't seem like Microsoft will come out with an "Xbox2" anytime soon, so I feel like I'll be less "jipped". Also, everyone has a PS2 so it's kinda cool to have an Xbox, right?  Then again, if the PS3 comes out, I can still play my PS2 games on it probably.
> 
> 7. Style and size: The PS2 stands upright and looks cooler. The Xbox is so bulky and ugly.*




Various senior Microsoft people have said that they're not going to let Sony get a 1.5 year jump on them again (Microsoft has chosen a stratagey which makes designing the console take less time and cost less money, but makes building the consoles cost more in the long run). Expect the US launch dates of Xbox 2 and PS3 to be within a month of each other.

And I just don't get the objections to the Xbox's size; it's bigger than my PS2, but it's smaller than my VCR. Besides, while standing your PS2 vertically looks cool, it's a pain to use it that way; the DVD tray is really built for horizontal operation.


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## Ristamar (Dec 9, 2002)

Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> * 1. DVD player: I hear the PS2's DVD player doesn't always work and the Xbox one is better, but you have to buy a remote to even play DVD's. Does the Xbox DVD always work?
> 
> ...
> 
> ...




I'll comment on some of these...

1. The PS2 DVD player is fickle.  Seems to be hit or miss. Experiences vary from flawless to worthless.

3.  Virtua Fighter 4 is good.  Tekken 4 is out, but *gasp* I hate Tekken (I think it's beyond overrated), so I can't really comment.  And there's always Capcom vs. SNK 2, but that's on all systems.

5.  LotR: FotR was kinda weak on all systems.  Two Towers looks better, but I've only seen reviews for the PS2 version thus far.

Check gamerankings.com to look at the best games for each system.  Judging by the tone and wording of your post, it sounds as if you've all but bought the PS2, anyway...  which isn't necessarily a bad thing, just pointing it out.


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## Ristamar (Dec 9, 2002)

WSmith said:
			
		

> *On the Zelda matter, where did you hear this? Is this for real? If so I think my decision is made.*




You can find the info on most gaming sites, as it's pretty big news.  Here's a link for you, good sir.


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## Zappo (Dec 9, 2002)

Just a few comments.







			
				Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> *1. DVD player: I hear the PS2's DVD player doesn't always work and the Xbox one is better, but you have to buy a remote to even play DVD's. Does the Xbox DVD always work?*



If you find that you have got a PS2 that doesn't play some DVDs, you can just pull out the warranty and have it replaced.







> *Then again, if the PS3 comes out, I can still play my PS2 games on it probably.*



Probably. But I second Tsyr on not betting the farm. If Sony is really serious on the announced PS3 architecture... making _that_ backwards compatible would be a pain.


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 9, 2002)

Honestly, I can't make a decision yet. At the beginning of my original post, I was leaning towards an Xbox. But by the end, you can see I start leaning towards a PS2. 

For me, here are the biggest strengths of each:

PS2: GTA3 & Vice City, Okage, Dark Cloud, Jak & Daxter, etc.

Xbox: DVD, newer, better graphics, DOA3, Jet Set Radio Future. 

So, basically, it's all about the games on the PS2, while the Xbox has the better DVD and graphics with a few good games. I don't intend on buying a whole bunch of games, but I guess I could get the PS2 and a DVD player on the side if the PS2 DVD player sucks. 

Maybe, I'll start a couple of new threads to see what are people's all-time favorite PS2 and Xbox games, respectively. It's hard to tell from those review sites and I'm curious to get the perspective of people like me who play D&D and d20 games.


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 9, 2002)

Zappo said:
			
		

> *Just a few comments.If you find that you have got a PS2 that doesn't play some DVDs, you can just pull out the warranty and have it replaced.Probably. But I second Tsyr on not betting the farm. If Sony is really serious on the announced PS3 architecture... making that backwards compatible would be a pain. *




Yeah, but how many DVDs do you think I'll play before I know the PS2 DVD player is not that good and the warranty expires? Sure, if I play a couple of DVDs and it's no good I'll return it. But if I think it's working well and then down the road, a couple of DVDs I really want to play don't work, then it sucks.

As for the PS3, I guess I shouldn't worry too much. I sold my PS One prematurely and then never bought the PS2. So, I didn't have any games for a long while. If I buy a PS3, it will be long after the release date. 

But now I'm moving towards the Xbox again because I can play a few good games and the graphics ARE better on some games. The DVD player is a big issue, too.


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 9, 2002)

3. fighting games.

   Tekken IMO is the ebst of the lot and it is for PS2 for the 2d gaming crowd there are Capcom games a pelnty on the PS2 and some I think made it too X-Box(only one I like is Mutant accademy because I'm a X-Men fan)  But don't count out DOA3 it is a really solid game.  My big problem is that the game eventually seems to revolve around reversals(can't rememebr the DOA term for it but when someone turns your attack around and you take damage) every character has them(which I like) but they are so dang effective too many games I've seen and played are people seeing who gets bored 1st and attacks, and therefore takes insane punsihment for it.(not nearly as bad as DOA2 though)  Still overall it is a good fighting game.  But IMO not even close t as good ad Tekken 4.





Zelda: Is this just a rehash of the N64 game.  Even though it rocked and took me forever to beat, I really don't need or want a spiffier version of it.


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## Tsyr (Dec 9, 2002)

> My big problem is that the game eventually seems to revolve around reversals(can't rememebr the DOA term for it but when someone turns your attack around and you take damage) every character has them(which I like) but they are so dang effective too many games I've seen and played are people seeing who gets bored 1st and attacks, and therefore takes insane punsihment for it




Counters.

They basicly exist for one thing: As a fix for two-move wonders. You know the type... finds one or two cheap moves and does them over and over to kill people. I have a couple friends who can't hardly score a hit on me... when they do, it's because I mis-timed my counter a tad... because they only seem to know one or two moves. Of the 80+ each character has (It ranges from, I think, around 82 to about 120, depending on the character), they only ever seem to use one or two. As a result, countering them is really easy...

But that's the thing. You can't counter blindly. You have to have an idea what you are countering. If you find a person has started to counter your chest punches, do a leg sweep followed by a kick to the head. Mix those up a couple times, and they won't have a clue what to counter next .

They also make "super moves" like wind-up punches and so forth a bit harder to pull off, since you can be prepared for them... you have to time them alot better now. 

I like counters.  They add a new edge to the game.


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## Ristamar (Dec 9, 2002)

> *...while the Xbox has the better DVD and graphics with a few good games. I don't intend on buying a whole bunch of games, but I guess I could get the PS2 and a DVD player on the side...*




I'm sure this will sound a bit strange, but you don't buy a toaster with a bacon-cooking hybrid attachment if what you really want is bacon and don't care much about the toast...

A console system is nothing without its games.  Potential means nothing without proper application.  Extras, such as a DVD player, are merely that... extra.  They're fluff.  They don't mean squat if the games suck, and unless you have the proper equipment (HDTV capabilities, surround sound speakers, etc.), add little to nothing to the gaming experience.  And even if you do have a hi-tech setup, the games still take precedence by far.

Considering DVD players are so cheap in price now, and the built-in DVD's in consoles are just plain cheap, you shouldn't worry about DVD playback unless you're on an _extremely_ tight budget or are _severely_ lacking in space.  And don't kid yourself...  you are paying for that built-in DVD player in the final cost.  Nothing comes for free.

Games. Games.  Games.  It can't be said enough.  That should be the primary focus of your decision when buying a console.  If, and only if, you still can't tip the scales in any one direction by looking at the available and upcoming titles should you start looking at the fluff.

And don't let 'newer, better graphics' fool you.  While I can't deny that the XBOX is the most powerful console on the market and multiplatform titles generally look a bit better on XBOX, there isn't much being done graphically that irrevocably outshines even the 'dated' PS2, let alone the Gamecube.  Perhaps in the future XBOX titles will make that extra step, but as of yet, the games in the XBOX library aren't sporting revolutionary graphics.

I'm not trying to bring down the 'BOX or pump up the PS2.  I just want to make sure you focus on what is important on consoles.  The games.  If DVD is truly that important to you, you'd likely be better served by purchasing a separate DVD player.


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## shadowlight (Dec 10, 2002)

*XBox DVD*

I had a DVD player that I really liked when I bought my XBox, but in October there was a rebate making the DVD kit essentially free so I picked it up.  It works GREAT!  After using it a few times I gave my DVD player to my kids and I just use the XBox now.  It's an added benefit that I really hadn't expected, and it's nice to have one fewer machine in my entertainment center.  I've never had any problems watching DVDs (and I watch a LOT).

But when it comes down to it, it IS about the games: Halo, Burnout, MechAssault, Project Gotham Racing, Ghost Recon, Splinter Cell, Dragon's Lair 3D, weeehaw!!


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## Psionicist (Dec 13, 2002)

Honestly, why X-box? X-box is just a, in todays terms, worthless computer without that many games. I would get a Playstation 2 any day over the X-box. More and better games (Can you say Square?), it's cheaper and so on.


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## Tsyr (Dec 13, 2002)

Psionicist said:
			
		

> *Honestly, why X-box? X-box is just a, in todays terms, worthless computer*




So is a PS2.

Your point?


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## BadMojo (Dec 15, 2002)

I just went through a situation similiar to Lord Vangarel's.  It was a tough decision, but I will be getting an Xbox this holiday season.

I finally made my decision based on the strength of the Xbox's hardware and Xbox Live.  It seems like most of the A-List titles are now coming out on both PS2 & Xbox, so I'm not really worried about missing out on the hottest, new games (except the GTA series, which doesn't really interest me).  I don't have any PS1 games, so backward compatability isn't an issue for me.

The Playstation 2 definitely has a larger library of games,  but I don't have the time/money to buy or rent a ton of games.  From what I've been seeing in the game commercials on TV, I'm sure there will be plenty of Xbox titles to keep me busy.  Also, hundreds of additional games don't really do me much good if I have zero interest in 99% of them.  I tend to be a fairly discriminate game buyer, so I probably won't buy more than 12 games/year.

Of course, the perfect solution would be to buy an Xbox, PS2 and Gamecube.  Anyone care to donate some money to the cause? 

I have a strange feeling that this discussion will, at some point, start getting ugly, and that's a real shame.  It's not easy to get good, unbiased advise on console gaming, and $200 is a lot to spend on something (for me, at least).


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## trancejeremy (Dec 15, 2002)

Really, all consoles are worth buying, because even the worst have many good games.  With the possible exception of the 3d0.


But I could only afford one, and I got a PS2 for basically 3 reasons.  Gran Turismo 3, Vice City, and the fact that there's a whole bunch of decent to great cheap games (around $20 new), since I can't really afford many $50 games. 

Vice City is so much like my dreams it's scary. It's the greatest game I've ever played (and I used to have a pong console, so I've been playing video games for 25 years or so). It's so utterly amazing.  Granted, I'm a big miami vice fan, and I used to live in Florida. So I probably like it more than most people.  But it's amazing. It's fun to just drive around and listen to the radio.

OTOH, if you like FPSes or Mech Games, the Xbox is probably the best choice. (Though Ring of Red for the PS2 is pretty cool. More of a strategy game than a mech game, though)


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## shadowlight (Dec 16, 2002)

One other thing about XBox - I haven't found any good kid games for it.  Don't get me wrong.  I have a `box and love it, but I really don't want my 4 year old to play 'M' & 'T' rated games.  So I broke down and bought a Gamecube for him for Christmas   It's got excellent graphics and tons of great games for kids.  (And as an added bonus, I'll get to play Metroid Prime )

My point:  If you've got kids and want to have a good selection for them.  I'd go Gamecube over XBox...


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## Shapermc (Dec 16, 2002)

No one has mantioned that Xbox has bought RARE for exclusivity (Conckers bad fur day, the Donkey Kong Games)

My Recomendation = Get a Dreamcast.  Huge Library.  Best next gen concol for 2-d gaming.  Great controler selection (there were so many 3rd party controlers put out that if you cant find one that you like just buy a converter to use your PS controler)

My 2nd Recomendation = Neo-Geo.  Yea true it is expensive, but man it was released in '89 and do you know how many new games came out for it this year?  4!  Rage of the Dragons, King of Fighters 2002, Metal Slug 4, and one other.  Great 2-d library and it is still going with many planed releases next year. 

If you want another recomendation. . . Stay away from the PS2 unless you are a Squaresoft fan boy.  It has the highest malfunction/return rate of any system.  After last holiday season it was reported that 10% of all new PS2 were returned/repaired due to manufacturer err.  Don't get me wrong PS2 has some great games out there, but I am afraid to use it sometimes thinking that I might Break it.  About half of my DVD's dont work on it past the point where the disk changes layers ( but this does not bother me because I just use my DVD player in the living room then.  The PS2 is in the bedroom right now.)  Honestly if yo got the $$$ get all three and reap the benifits of competitive market   This is like SNES v Genesis back in the 90's it is great!!

Also I am a SEGA fanboy so SEGA seems to be giving the best exclusivity to GC and Xbox.  I think that they have some resentment towards PS2 from it shutting out the Dreamcast 

EDIT: M$ purchasing RARE = More Kiddie games on the horizion.


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## Shapermc (Dec 16, 2002)

Zappo said:
			
		

> *If you find that you have got a PS2 that doesn't play some DVDs, you can just pull out the warranty and have it replaced.*




And for the low low low low price of only $110 + s/h


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## Aldymnor (Dec 16, 2002)

I have both (and a cube if anyone cares ¬.¬) and this season, I'd take the Xbox, 2 to 1.  But that's me.  all about preference.


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## Mallus (Dec 16, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *My Recomendation = Get a Dreamcast.  Huge Library.  Best next gen concol for 2-d gaming.  Great controler selection (there were so many 3rd party controlers put out that if you cant find one that you like just buy a converter to use your PS controler)*




Great recommendation. While house-sitting this weekend, an old friend and I spent a day playing Dreamcast titles. It's the best {semi}next-gen system for multiplayer games, period. Virtua Tennis {or 2k2}, Powerstone 2, Giga Wing 2 and Soul Calibur made 10 hours sail right by... {didn't touch any of great 2D fighters. There not my buddy's cup of hot blood}. And its $50 bucks. I'm debating getting a spare {I'm using a launch-day system} for the inevitable day when mine breaks down. 



> *If you want another recomendation. . . Stay away from the PS2 unless you are a Squaresoft fan boy.  *




I'm definitely not a Sony fanboy. I never owned/played PS1, the first Final Fantasy I played was 10, and you know something, I'm glad I got a PS2. Huge library of games, some of which are truly exceptional. Many of which can be had for US $20.00. The reality of Sony's market share makes it a hard product to avoid. More games, and more games at a discount price point...

And the whole malfunction issue is really not limited to PS2's. From what I understand, quality control for just about every piece of computer hardware is spotty --and again, its all about the low price-point. Any of you order a computer online, only to ship it right back because it won't boot straight out of the box?

And knock on wood, my PS2 was a year old last month and its doing fine.


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## Shapermc (Dec 16, 2002)

Mallus said:
			
		

> *I'm definitely not a Sony fanboy. I never owned/played PS1, the first Final Fantasy I played was 10, and you know something, I'm glad I got a PS2. Huge library of games, some of which are truly exceptional. Many of which can be had for US $20.00. The reality of Sony's market share makes it a hard product to avoid. More games, and more games at a discount price point...
> 
> And the whole malfunction issue is really not limited to PS2's. From what I understand, quality control for just about every piece of computer hardware is spotty --and again, its all about the low price-point. Any of you order a computer online, only to ship it right back because it won't boot straight out of the box?
> 
> And knock on wood, my PS2 was a year old last month and its doing fine. *




All valid points.  All good points.  PS2 is the system for the person on a budget (if the Dreamcast is not you "cup of hot blood") and I just picked up Resident Evil Code Veronica for $10 used on sat.  I am not saying that it is a bad system.  It has a huge library and most of the good classics are $20 - $35 new.  I give the system all this.  But I know that the PS2 has the HIGHEST rate of malfunctions in any system ever to hit the market (this is system stuff not games crashing) and most of it revolves around the DVD player.  I have more PS2 titles in my gaming library than any of the other nextgen consoles in production (no where near the 60+ that I have for the DC).  But I have spent 2x as much time on my Xbox gaming than my PS2 and that Is what it boils down to for me.  I was disapointed with the probems in the PS2 dvd playback and it was always with brand new movies.  When I bought Kiss of the Dragon (Jet Li and Bridget Fonda) I poped it in with out ever having been viewed befor.  It hit the halfway point and tried to swithc layers.  It could not.  I thought that it was a bad batch of DVD burnings (I refused to think that it was the PS2) so I took it back and got a new one.   Same problem.  I tryed another DVD player and had no problems   I took it to my friends PS2. No problems .  Now I would not want this to happen to someone who is looking for a DVD player that plays games, and I can think of 5 other movies that this happen to in the PS2.  If that is what you want go with the Xbox (a DVD player that plays games).  It is the best bang for your buck right now.  Like I said for your first system unless there are some die hard games that you must have for it I would recomend avoiding the risk of a PS2 malfunction.  Also Xbox has Higher DVD playback resolution .

I hope that that clerifies my point.  I was not saying that PS2 was bad if you are a gamer, but if your looking for a DVD player that plays games go with the Xbox (it is also my fav system at the moment).


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## Welverin (Dec 17, 2002)

Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> *Xbox: DVD, newer, better graphics, DOA3, Jet Set Radio Future.*




Hey it even comes with JSRF currently. Plus Shenmue 2 is already out (a good game that, admittedly, isn't for everyone) and Panzer Dragoon Orta is on the way early next year (sounds good by all reports so far).



			
				Shapermc said:
			
		

> *No one has mantioned that Xbox has bought RARE for exclusivity (Conckers bad fur day, the Donkey Kong Games)
> 
> EDIT: M$ purchasing RARE = More Kiddie games on the horizion. *




First of all Rare does not own the rights to Donkey Kong, those are Nintendo's, as are those for Conker (I believe).

You can count on Perfect Dark for the 'box, as well as a few other games but most of the stuff they developed for Nintendo were properies owned by Nintendo that they can't take with them.

As for kiddie games from Rare on the box, I wouldn't count on it because that doesn't seem to be what MS wants or what rare has the rights to.


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## Ristamar (Dec 17, 2002)

Welverin said:
			
		

> *First of all Rare does not own the rights to Donkey Kong, those are Nintendo's, as are those for Conker (I believe).
> 
> You can count on Perfect Dark for the 'box, as well as a few other games but most of the stuff they developed for Nintendo were properies owned by Nintendo that they can't take with them.
> 
> As for kiddie games from Rare on the box, I wouldn't count on it because that doesn't seem to be what MS wants or what rare has the rights to. *




Nintendo does own Donkey Kong, though I believe Rare has the rights to Conker.

You're right about the 'kiddie games' though.  Rare's games are generally mature, though some are suitable kids.  Conker, however, is as far from 'kiddie' as you can get.  Rare had to tone that game down before releasing it, or else it would've been slapped with an AO (Adults Only) rating.


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## Shapermc (Dec 17, 2002)

Well as Far as RARE goes they have 2 Xbox games lined up.  One is a 'kiddie' game the other is Perfect Dark "plans".  The first one is that will be kiddie is based around the story of a pixi and it will be adventure based.  It never looked interesting so hence I forgot the name of it quite easily.  

I belive that RARE owns Conker and Blast Corp.  Blast Corp would be a bad ass game to bring to Xbox.


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## Mallus (Dec 17, 2002)

*Shapermc...*



			
				Shapermc said:
			
		

> *it is also my fav system at the moment). *




...what do you like on the 'Box? Since the bundle w/JSRF included, I've been toying with the idea of getting one. What are your personal faves? I know what the sites and mags say, but I don't know anyone personally with one.


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## Ristamar (Dec 17, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *One is a 'kiddie' game.....
> 
> ...It never looked interesting so hence I forgot the name of it quite easily.
> 
> I belive that RARE owns Conker and Blast Corp.  Blast Corp would be a bad ass game to bring to Xbox. *




I believe you're referring to Kameo: Elements of Power.

And yes, Rare does own Blast Corps.  They also own Killer Instinct.


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## Shapermc (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Shapermc...*



			
				Mallus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> ...what do you like on the 'Box? Since the bundle w/JSRF included, I've been toying with the idea of getting one. What are your personal faves? I know what the sites and mags say, but I don't know anyone personally with one. *




Halo (the sheep has spoke bahhhh).  But seriously this is what sold me on the system when it was still $300 with no included games.

Morrowind is amazing (and I perfer to play RPG's on my couch than PC chair).  I spent over 200 hours on this and never completed the main mission.

JSRF is possibly one of the best games on the system.

Any sprots game (Tony Hawk, NCAA, NFL, NHL . . . ) is immeadatly better.  Aside from the grapical improvements you dont have to buy a splitter for 4 player action.  Also if you head to your local gaming store you can pick up used (well kind of) large model Xbox controlers that came with the system for less than $15.    This is because people bought the system traded it in for a discount for the small controller  

Also Splinter cell is great.  

Xbox live is another amazing selling point if you have a broadband connection.

The Juke(X)box.  Here is what made me really dig it that most people dont even use.  You can compress your audio cd's (infortunatly not burned cd's) into a xbox compression format and store it on the hard drive (I have heard that it is the .wma format that M$ has the copyright to but no confirmation).  I have almost 15 full CD's worth of songs on it and if you look at your memory left in the main opening screen for the Xbox it still says that I have 500,000+ memory slots available.  I have many many many many save games and custom teams saved on the Xbox as well.  Then I just turn my Xbox into a Jukebox and let it play audio while I read or paint mini's or make character's   You can also use this song feature on some games (mainly agressive sport games).

There are more things that are just little qirks about the system liek the ability to add elements to the games (DOA3 has more lvels and more costumes that you can add,  Unreal Championship has more levels available for DL off the Live network, Splinter cell has something, SegaGT has a christmas track and a new car.)  Also I like not haveing to worry about howmany save games I have on a memory card.  Little stuff.  As I said I am also a huge SEGA fanboy and Sega is showing huge support for the Xbox (House of the Dead 3 :drool and will continue to (Panzer Dragoon Orta :drool. 

If you are a 2-d fighting fan you will love the Xbox next year.  Marvel v Capcom 2 and Capcom v SNK 2 will both go online with Xbox live in Q1 of next year.  That me smack talking over the Voice Communicator from my couch to some unknowing fool half across the world 

If you need more examples about my personal opinions just ask, but that is all that they are is opinions.

EDIT:  Shenume II is also an amazing game, and especially if it comes with the movie ofthe first one.  I have this game for my Dreamcast and have beat it a couple of time (even though I got it for my wife for christmas).  I foget that it came out for the Xbox


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 17, 2002)

*Re: Re: Shapermc...*



			
				Shapermc said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> Any sprots game (Tony Hawk, NCAA, NFL, NHL . . . ) is immeadatly better.  Aside from the grapical improvements you dont have to buy a splitter for 4 player action.  Also if you head to your local gaming store you can pick up used (well kind of) large model Xbox controlers that came with the system for less than $15.    This is because people bought the system traded it in for a discount for the small controller
> ...




Minor beef for B-Ball games I like the splitter.  It lets me paly with 5 people the number of players on a B-Ball team(actually playing that is)  With 4 slots they feel no need for a splitter.

Oh and prepared to be talken smack too.  Though since my 2-d skills are rusty and never updated past SF2(totally can't figure out that lame bounce people into the air and beat the crap out of them as I jump up with them thing) it may very well be underserved smack.


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 18, 2002)

Has anyone heard any more on the post-holiday price drop? There was a piece on this on Fox News earlier tonight, but I missed it. Is the Game Cube gonig to be less than $100??? (that's what the commercial implied, but I have no idea.)


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 18, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *Has anyone heard any more on the post-holiday price drop? There was a piece on this on Fox News earlier tonight, but I missed it. Is the Game Cube gonig to be less than $100??? (that's what the commercial implied, but I have no idea.) *




Fine! Don't answer my question! Like the old "I didn't see that news clip" excuse means anything. I'll just stay up until 3 am (well, I'd have been up anyway) and catch the replay.

[stays up]

Rassin'-frassin' Fox News. Doesn't know what the **** they're talking about. They say it's possible that the game systems will go down another $50 in MAY. Hel-LO?!? May is not "post-Holidays", May is next freaking year! And that's based on what? "Insiders speculate..." my @$$. I should have known, since I couldn't find any news online to corroborate this rumor.


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## Enforcer (Dec 18, 2002)

My group for my MCVA (Market Competition and Value Appropriation) class just did a 6,500 word analysis of the three systems and the various strategies that they've undertaken. If people are interested, and my teammates and professor don't mind, I'll post it here.

One interesting tidbit, Kaz Hirai, the president of Sony Computer Entertainment (the Sony division that's responsible for the PS2) said, "officially, the console wars are over" at the last E3 conference. Given that PS2 has sold over 30 million consoles, while the other two have sold between 3.5-4 million consoles each, it's hard to argue with him.


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## Ristamar (Dec 18, 2002)

Enforcer said:
			
		

> *One interesting tidbit, Kaz Hirai, the president of Sony Computer Entertainment (the Sony division that's responsible for the PS2) said, "officially, the console wars are over" at the last E3 conference. Given that PS2 has sold over 30 million consoles, while the other two have sold between 3.5-4 million consoles each, it's hard to argue with him. *




The war is over for this particular round, at least.  Once the next generation systems hit the market, the battle begins anew.

Those most recently KIA in said console wars: Sega, 3DO, and Atari.


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 18, 2002)

Enforcer said:
			
		

> *
> One interesting tidbit, Kaz Hirai, the president of Sony Computer Entertainment (the Sony division that's responsible for the PS2) said, "officially, the console wars are over" at the last E3 conference. Given that PS2 has sold over 30 million consoles, while the other two have sold between 3.5-4 million consoles each, it's hard to argue with him. *




Nintendo screwed up again.  The cartirige system in N64 vs the PS1 was just dumb.  It still was a good system with some great games, but that was just dumb and doomed them to failure.  Simialrly in this round not using DVDs which are seen as the high end of current gaming console s, they went with there non-DVD sytem, just lame.  And the one year gap is just a killer.(on top of that they had a slow release of games after there initital release)

Microsoft had a decent 1st showing, though I really doubt any American company had any hope of success in the needed Japan market, and the one year gap agian really hurts.  The X-Box may have gotten enough name recognition as the "better" mechine tech wise that if round 2 comes up and they release their machine at the same time(both in Japan and here so yes Japan owuld get the X-Box before us) they might have a chance to get a decent market share.  And while I like the X-box controller it would probably be wise to release the game with either a smaller controller or with the option for a smaller controlelr instead of having to wait for it.


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## Shapermc (Dec 18, 2002)

The console war is over Game Boy wins.  Seriously.  It out sells any system to date.



> My group for my MCVA (Market Competition and Value Appropriation) class just did a 6,500 word analysis of the three systems and the various strategies that they've undertaken. If people are interested, and my teammates and professor don't mind, I'll post it here




I would love to see that report.  You can email it to me at mwmson@hotmail.com if you can't post it.  I love reading this stuff  



> And while I like the X-box controller it would probably be wise to release the game with either a smaller controller or with the option for a smaller controlelr instead of having to wait for it.




While I dont know if your impling that there was no option when it was released or if there is no option now, I am assuming the second.  There is a smaller (s - model) Xbox controller out now.  It was not released at the same time as the Xbox in america, but it was for the Japan release.  Now it is actually sold with the Xbox as opposed to the larger one.



> The X-Box may have gotten enough name recognition as the "better" mechine tech wise that if round 2 comes up and they release their machine at the same time(both in Japan and here so yes Japan owuld get the X-Box before us) they might have a chance to get a decent market share.




Why?  Serioulsy japan could have had Xbox 2 months to a year early from America and it would not have made a difference.  Look at Metal Gear Solid 2.  It was released in America 2 months before Japan (Konami took a huge risk with doing that too) and it still sold better than expected in Japan.  It honestly has to do with alot of thought by the Japanese market that an American company has to prove that they can get good games out there.  So far most of the games that have done well on the Xbox were games that did poorly in Japan on the Dreamcast.  JSRF is a prime example of this.  JSR for the DC did much better in US sales than Japan even thought DC had less than half the installed user base that Japan had.  Same goes for Crazy Taxi and House of the Dead.  Also if you look at howmany sports games there are for the Xbox you will see that most of them are Football (US football) and that those games do really poorly in Japan.

Also one of the largest selling points of Xbox in america is Halo.  Halo did not do well in Japan because it is a FPS game (one of the worst selling kind of games because guns are outlawed in Japan).  So the Uber game for the system only fell into a niche market in japan.  Also SOA (Sega of America) has a larger advertising budget in america (one of the few companies like this).  This means that SOA also spends more time when they take a Jap game and add extras for the US version and fix bugs.  

I can go on like this for a while about why Xbox did not do as well in Japan, but I will turn over to why it will start doing alot better.  Xbox Live and Panzer Dragoon Orta.  Online console gaming has always been more popular in Japan (tons of DC games lost the budget to get them converted over to the US with Multiplayer online accessability due to the lack of expected increased revenu).  If Xbox live hits home in Japan (Where PS2 has and still is falling short) then the Xbox sales will double to tripple in no time.  Why do you think that games like Panzer Dragoon Orta and Steel Batallion (Games which mainly will apeal to the Jap market) are comming out around the same time as Live?  Also the fighting games that I have mentioned before (MvC2 and CvS2) will drag in a huge Japan audience.


Microsoft knew that the console war was over before they entered it.  They have been batteling for 2nd place the whole time.  This is why they are putting so much money into it.  Who ever comes out on top (between M$ and the Big N) will have the best chance in the next consel war.  

[/rant]


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 18, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *
> While I dont know if your impling that there was no option when it was released or if there is no option now, I am assuming the second.  There is a smaller (s - model) Xbox controller out now.  It was not released at the same time as the Xbox in america, but it was for the Japan release.  Now it is actually sold with the Xbox as opposed to the larger one.
> 
> 
> ...




I actualy meant the former in the at release they better have both or at least the smaller controller.  I didn't know the small controler was standard now though I knew it shipped to Japan that way.

And why for timing.  Because while some people are gameing freaks like me and just buy all the sytems that are easily avialable to them, many others buy just one.  A jump on the competition is a big thing in console wars because 1. people are impatient and 2(and more importantly)# of games a system has is also very important.  If you let some one launch there system in advance they will have more games and that frequently determins which system people will buy.  X-Box would be wise in this time frame to also work on landing some games company contracts with the comapanies that sell the most games in Japan, there Japan launch should likely have a decent number of games which will never be seen here in america where the assumption would be for that type of game that it would fail.

And even with Live I don't think there will be a huge X-Box buying spree in Japan.  It might happen but I think 2 things will stop it. 1 both X-Box and PS2 have been announcing the next gen systems enough that I can see people looking to PS3 and X-Box2 before they pick up another current gen console, and 2 I'm surprised at how much Sony is flubbing the online thing up to now, I just can't see it continuing for much longer if the X-Box live thing takes off at all, there just too savy for that.


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## Shapermc (Dec 18, 2002)

Shard O'Glase said:
			
		

> *And why for timing.  Because while some people are gameing freaks like me and just buy all the sytems that are easily avialable to them, many others buy just one.  A jump on the competition is a big thing in console wars because 1. people are impatient and 2(and more importantly)# of games a system has is also very important.  If you let some one launch there system in advance they will have more games and that frequently determins which system people will buy.  X-Box would be wise in this time frame to also work on landing some games company contracts with the comapanies that sell the most games in Japan, there Japan launch should likely have a decent number of games which will never be seen here in america where the assumption would be for that type of game that it would fail.*




Than why did Dreamcast fail?  It was out way before PS2 and had a quite a large ammount of games out for it.  (BTW M$ is trying to land a few more exclusive contracts  )



			
				Shard O'Glase said:
			
		

> *And even with Live I don't think there will be a huge X-Box buying spree in Japan.  It might happen but I think 2 things will stop it. 1 both X-Box and PS2 have been announcing the next gen systems enough that I can see people looking to PS3 and X-Box2 before they pick up another current gen console, and 2 I'm surprised at how much Sony is flubbing the online thing up to now, I just can't see it continuing for much longer if the X-Box live thing takes off at all, there just too savy for that. *




Ok I never said it would be a buying spree, considering that if 2 to 3 times more people started buying Xbox's in Japan it would stll be quite a low number .  Also the second part is not true either.  Lots of people buy just one system (like you stated) and then wait for the other that they want to drop in price and have something that they really want.   Especially if Xbox2 is involved it would not be a detering factor in buy, it would be the exact oposite.  Xbox2 would be backwards compatable and if the price warented then the consume would know that if they got the Xbox 2 all the games that they are buying now would also work in the future  

Actually it is becasue Sony has taken the back seat that PS2 online has been doing so bad.  They left it up to the software company to develop the servers and how their online services will work.  If Sony really wanted it to work (like SEGA and M$) they would have taken over where everyone was connecting to instead of just leaving it up in the air.  I sincerly doubt that PS2 will ever succeed in the online gaming market (unless FF XI pulls their servers out of the crapper).


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## Jeremy (Dec 18, 2002)

My personal opinion:

I have played atari 2600, nes, sega ms, genesis, snes, psx, n64, dc, ps2, and xbox.

Of the three currently competing consoles, the PS2 is the most worth the money.  It's game library is second to none and allows for a variety and selection that outweighs any perk I've seen of the other systems.

Towards the end of the SNES Nintendo began marketing more and more to really young children.  The N64 was even worse, selling it's system on Goldeneye until it died.  Unless you liked playing Pokemon spin offs, you had to have a playstation.  The gamecube has followed this trend leaving you with zelda/metroid/mario or kids titles.  Often of the cross platform titles, the game cube version is added as an afterthought.

The xbox has halo.  I'd say it has splinter cell too, but that is cross platform.  Given the number of ps2's out there in the market vs the number of xbox's, and given the game titles coming out on all three platforms, I only see the gap widening.  If you go into a blockbuster you see 8-20 panels of psx and ps2 games and 4-8 panels of xbox games.  I anticipate this will not change prior to the next gen consoles arrivals.

Free online play vs. subscription online pay with a player finder?  No contest.  I have enough bills as it is.

MGS came out on PS2, Xbox got an expanded version, PS2 is getting an expanded version of that.

No, game analysis isn't going to work because a post will list 5 games a person likes and any system can list that.  I can't emphasize the importance of selection and library.  If anything, get the xbox and ps2 as it adds even more choices.  But before the next gen boxes are out, I see the ps2 having an extraordinarily larger library of games than the game cube and the xbox combined.

And in owning a console, that's the most important detail.

Anyone who was stuck still playing Shadows of the Empire and GoldenEye on the N64 two years after it was released can tell you that.


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## Shapermc (Dec 18, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Of the three currently competing consoles, the PS2 is the most worth the money.  It's game library is second to none and allows for a variety and selection that outweighs any perk I've seen of the other systems. . (snip snip) . . No, game analysis isn't going to work because a post will list 5 games a person likes and any system can list that.  I can't emphasize the importance of selection and library.  If anything, get the xbox and ps2 as it adds even more choices.  But before the next gen boxes are out, I see the ps2 having an extraordinarily larger library of games than the game cube and the xbox combined.*




Sorry, but I will take quality over quantity any day.



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Towards the end of the SNES Nintendo began marketing more and more to really young children.  The N64 was even worse, selling it's system on Goldeneye until it died.  Unless you liked playing Pokemon spin offs, you had to have a playstation.  The gamecube has followed this trend leaving you with zelda/metroid/mario or kids titles.  Often of the cross platform titles, the game cube version is added as an afterthought.*




Contrary to what you have posted, why does the Gamecube have pretty much exclusive rights to Resident Evil than?  And Metriod (if this is what you ment by it) is not a kiddie game in my book.



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *The xbox has halo.  I'd say it has splinter cell too, but that is cross platform.  Given the number of ps2's out there in the market vs the number of xbox's, and given the game titles coming out on all three platforms, I only see the gap widening.  If you go into a blockbuster you see 8-20 panels of psx and ps2 games and 4-8 panels of xbox games.  I anticipate this will not change prior to the next gen consoles arrivals..*




[personal opinion]But when I look over the Xbox section I see more games that I want to play then when I wander through the PS2 section, that is what is more important to me[/personal opinion]



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Free online play vs. subscription online pay with a player finder?  No contest.  I have enough bills as it is.
> 
> MGS came out on PS2, Xbox got an expanded version, PS2 is getting an expanded version of that.
> 
> And in owning a console, that's the most important detail.*




Hmm if your questioning budget than . . . 

PS2:
System: $200
Memory Card: $25
HD + Network Adapter: $45 (I think) (You also cant save games on the HD)
2 Games: $40 - $100 
Spliter for Controlers: $30 (if you want it)
Total:  $330 - $400

Xbox:
System: $200
Memory Card: Don't need one you have the Hard drive
HD + Network Adaprot: Included
2 Games: Included
Spliter for Controlers: None needed 4 are built in
Total: $200 ($250 if you get Xbox live, but that includes 1 more game and a bunch of demos and the Comunicator)



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Anyone who was stuck still playing Shadows of the Empire and GoldenEye on the N64 two years after it was released can tell you that. *




I still have fun with those games and I hope that you were saying that you had fun with those 



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *I have played atari 2600, nes, sega ms, genesis, snes, psx, n64, dc, ps2, and xbox.*



I have played and still own
GameBoy, GBC, GBA, Atari, Nes, Snes, Sega MS, Genesis, Saturn, N64, DC, PSX, PS1 (you know the cute little one with the LCD monitor), PS2, Xbox, (obscureones starting here) 3DO, CD-i, Jaguar, Nomad, Turbo Gfx-16, Turbo-Duo, Neo-Geo, Lynx, Wonder Swan, Neo-Geo Pocket Color.  It makes no difference between my opinion and someone who owns a GameCube as their first system.


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## Chun-tzu (Dec 18, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *Hmm if your questioning budget than . . .
> 
> PS2:
> System: $200
> ...




To be fair, you also need a $30 remote to play DVDs on an Xbox, but you can play them on any PS2.


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## Shapermc (Dec 18, 2002)

Chun-tzu said:
			
		

> *
> 
> To be fair, you also need a $30 remote to play DVDs on an Xbox, but you can play them on any PS2. *




I forgot that  

I bought the remote for both systems anyways.  The controller really sucks for the PS2 you almost need the Remote for like fast forwarding and rewinding and . . .


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 18, 2002)

Wow, thanks for all your input, guys! I've been regularly checking up on here to see get everyone's opinion and I'm definitely leaning towards the... Xbox!

This is primarily because I want a good DVD player and play a few cool games. Although I will wonder if I made the right choice because I will not be able to play GTA3 (except maybe on my PC), Okage, Dark Cloud, Ico, and other great PS2 exclusive games, I know I will enjoy Halo, DOA3, Morrowind, Jet Set Radio Future, Splinter Cell, etc. And that's really enough for me. I still have a lot of catching up to do in the console games department anyhow.  

By the way, how long do you guys guess it would take for the PS3 or Xbox2 to be released? Also, does anyone want to buy an excellent condition Dreamcast with 12 games (only one year old)?


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## Shapermc (Dec 18, 2002)

Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> *By the way, how long do you guys guess it would take for the PS3 or Xbox2 to be released? Also, does anyone want to buy an excellent condition Dreamcast with 12 games (only one year old)? *




At the earliest I would guess Holiday season 2004.  Most likely mid - late 2005. 

Make me an offer (I live in New Orleans US) and tell me what the games are.  I would probably buy the system, but I will most likely have all the games ;-)


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 18, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Than why did Dreamcast fail?  It was out way before PS2 and had a quite a large ammount of games out for it.  (BTW M$ is trying to land a few more exclusive contracts  )
> 
> ...




I never understood why no-one gave the dreamcast a chance.  My guess is related to my nintendo screw up problem.  they went with "inferior" tech like the what was it a GD instead of DVD, processing pwoer, everything was subpar compared to the PS2 coming out next year. So why take a risk on the returning failure Sega. 

It was an amzaing sytem with great games though, and its a shame it got blown out the water so quickly.

Personally I think everyone should get every main sytem they can afford.  They really aren't that expensive, and competition is god for the industry. Each of the amin 3 has at least one exclusive game on it that makes me glad I bought the ssytem and is well worth it under my standard 5$ per hour valueation method.  Gamecube super monkey ball(and likey Zelda when it finally comes out), PS2 GTA3-vice, X-Box Halo, in each of these cases I played each one of those games enough that not only was the game worth it under my valuation system but the ssytem with all the accesories I bought as well.  Every game past then is just icing.  

I'd say X-Box gets my most money though because any cross platform game I get on the X-Box for the marginal graphic increase and the hard-drive(which frequently means extras), and it's exclusive titles are more to my liking.  When I get broadband cable, I'm going live because X-boxs online serive at the moment at least kicks the crap at of the PS2s service.


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## Tsyr (Dec 18, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *
> 
> At the earliest I would guess Holiday season 2004.  Most likely mid - late 2005.
> 
> Make me an offer (I live in New Orleans US) and tell me what the games are.  I would probably buy the system, but I will most likely have all the games ;-) *




Likewise, if he doesn't want the games, there might be some I would want... I love the DC, myself, but there are a few games I don't have.


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## drothgery (Dec 18, 2002)

Shard O'Glase said:
			
		

> *I never understood why no-one gave the dreamcast a chance.  My guess is related to my nintendo screw up problem.  they went with "inferior" tech like the what was it a GD instead of DVD, processing pwoer, everything was subpar compared to the PS2 coming out next year. So why take a risk on the returning failure Sega. *




There was a huge amount of advance hype for the PS2. Everything else was pretty much unimportant. Sega was shouting "We have more games, better games, and a system that's much easier to program for" for the first year that the PS2 was out, and pretty much every video game magazine and web site agreed, while also saying that the Dreamcast was doomed.

Neither Nintendo nor Microsoft had to deal with that hype machine as much; they were aiming for #2 from the beginning. And both brought their own advantages to the table, in addition to the 'easier to code for' card that both had relative to the PS2. Nintendo had some very strong exclusive franchises, the Game Boy to rely on for cash, and a less expensive system. Microsoft brought the most powerful system to the table, relatively easy PC ports, and Microsoft's money to guarantee that they weren't going to give up.


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## Shard O'Glase (Dec 18, 2002)

drothgery said:
			
		

> *
> 
> There was a huge amount of advance hype for the PS2. Everything else was pretty much unimportant. Sega was shouting "We have more games, better games, and a system that's much easier to program for" for the first year that the PS2 was out, and pretty much every video game magazine and web site agreed, while also saying that the Dreamcast was doomed.
> 
> Neither Nintendo nor Microsoft had to deal with that hype machine as much; they were aiming for #2 from the beginning. And both brought their own advantages to the table, in addition to the 'easier to code for' card that both had relative to the PS2. Nintendo had some very strong exclusive franchises, the Game Boy to rely on for cash, and a less expensive system. Microsoft brought the most powerful system to the table, relatively easy PC ports, and Microsoft's money to guarantee that they weren't going to give up. *




That makes sense.  It really is a pity I love my dreamcast and the games I have for it.  Then again I really went on a shoping spree when the games droped to 10$ and below in price.


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## Ristamar (Dec 19, 2002)

The Dreamcast wasn't exactly a failure.  It simply wasn't enough of a success to keep Sega from their past mistakes.  They needed PS2-like sales and support to dig themselves out of the grave, a grave formed by 3 big successive flops: Sega CD, 32X, and especially the Saturn, which the original PS obliterated with it's lower launch price and superior technology.

I like to think of a the Dreamcast as more of a grand 'Going Away' party.  And a fine party it was, while it lasted.


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## Ristamar (Dec 19, 2002)

Speaking of companies being in dire need, I find it somewhat amusing that after the passing of the N64, people point at Nintendo like some sort imminent disaster is looming directly overhead, waiting for the company to suddenly bow out of the industry and regress to developing only software.

Nintendo has never lost money on a console, save for, perhaps, the VirtualBoy, which was more of a side project than a true console.  

And contrary to popular belief, regardless of the the PlayStation's rise to power, the N64 was a huge financial success, powered by seemingly infallible first party support, a few amazing offerings from Rare, and many of the best multiplayer games of that generation.

On top of that, the amount of money Nintendo made from the GameBoy (including Color and Pocket hybrids) is absurd, and the Gameboy Advance, now about 18 months old, is well on its way to following in its predecesors footsteps.  Around the Thanksgiving holiday weekend, retailers sold 1 million GBA's over a period of ten days.  It's difficult to imagine anyone even challenging, let alone usurping, the stranglehold Nintendo has on the handheld market.

Nintendo, being widely regarded as one of the leading businesses in Japan, is financially savvy and secure, sitting on a 9 billion dollar safety cushion.  It can fail miserably and still have the ability to quickly recover, so it is unlikely for it to be leaving the console market any time in the near future.


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## gariig (Dec 19, 2002)

I think next gen consoles are going to taek the X-Box approach with built in hard drives and online support(whether downloads and/or multiplayer action).  Probably the last big thing going for PCs is the ability to use MODs.  I mean, what is the number one multiplayer game out right now is Half-Life and it is how old?? 4 or 5 years I think, must be something to this MOD stuff.  Another thing Sony has going for it is Evercrack(err Everquest), if it could get that onto console it would open up an even bigger market for that cash cow.  

Also, lots of games are a good selling point for parents buy consoles for their kids.  Recently at a Toys 'R Us a mom and a dad were sold on a PS2 for little "bobby and suzy" just because it had a huge library.  Know what that means to mom and dad, they know their kids will like SOMETHING.  Walk down the X-Box aisle and all you see are sports games(in comparison) and wonder what is wrong with it and worry that 8-9 year old bobby and suzy won't like those kind of games.

Gariig

Here is a link to Gamespy's stats..Half-Life is more then every other game combined(this doesn't include MMORPGs of course)


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 19, 2002)

I guess I could sell all of this really easy on eBay (where I have a perfect rating of 62/62). But if someone can make me a good offer for the entire bundle and send a check ahead of shipment, I'd be willing to part with it here. 

I have:

Sega Dreamcast Console 
Sega Controller (original)
Sega Controller (blue)
Memory Cards (blue) x2
Mad Catz Extension Cord
Mad Catz Jump/Rumble Pack

Grandia II
Shenmue
Resident Evil: Code Veronica
Soul Calibur
Virtua Tennis
Crazy Taxi
Space Channel 5
Jet Grind Radio
Sonic Adventure
Sonic Shuffle
Tomb Raider: The Last Revelation

If you want to make an offer, please e-mail me at: specialedgar@netscape.net

I know I can get $100 credit towards a new console at Electronics Boutique and probably get about $150 in cash on eBay. So, please make a reasonable offer (including S&H). 

If you guys think I should just do one of these two things, then let me know, too. Thanks again for all the advice and looking at my stuff!


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 19, 2002)

Oh, yeah and everything is in excellent condition as far as I know (no visible scratches, etc). I am almost certain that I even have all of the original boxes, cases, manuals, etc (even for the console, controllers, and memory cards!) Some of these games I have only played a couple of times and they all work perfectly. Nothing is more than a year or so old and most of the games were bought only months ago (all in brand new condition when purchased). That's a lot of information, but there it is!


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## Mallus (Dec 19, 2002)

Shard O'Glase said:
			
		

> *I never understood why no-one gave the dreamcast a chance.  My guess is related to my nintendo screw up problem.  they went with "inferior" tech like the what was it a GD instead of DVD, processing pwoer, everything was subpar compared to the PS2 coming out next year.*




Couldn't the same be said of the market-leading PS2, which is behind the Gamecube and XBox technology-wise?

I there's a tendency to overstate the importance of cutting-edge hardware when discussing console gaming. If technology was really the deciding factor, then the Xbox would be ahead of the PS2 in sales...

And what happened with the Dremacast was due to several factors: lack of certain key third-party support {curse you, EA}, Sega limited reasources {Sega was operating on such a thin margin, they needed lots of immediate revenue from the DC, they simply couldn't wait for it to gradually build a user-base}, and the fact that their rival Sony had an incredibly powerful brand with the Playstation. Consumers aren't strictly rational creatures. What they {we} believe about a product or producer is often as important, if not more, than the objective truth.   

The Dreamcast was and is a great game system. I'm  not selling mine. 

And the PS2 is a great system, despite its "inferior tech" {compared to the Cube and the Box}, because of the support its market share garauntees.

And while I'm at it, I'm sure the Xbox will be a great system. Microsoft can keep supporting it --and buying new support-- until the Sun up and dies-- giving it time to build a user-base...


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## Shapermc (Dec 19, 2002)

Ristamar said:
			
		

> *Speaking of companies being in dire need, . . .(snip)
> Nintendo has never lost money on a console,. . .(snip)
> And contrary . . .(snip)*




I couldent agree with you more.  Actually I think the exact oposite of what most people do.  The Big N will back out of making games and just 'whore' out their consoles to the highest bidder.  This is the exact oposite of what SEGA did.  The reasons?   Well Zelda was sold off to be made by another company, F-Zero, Metroid, and even (gasp) Mario.  If you look at it that way they cant lose.  



> _Orig. Post by Sir Edgar_
> I know I can get $100 credit towards a new console at Electronics Boutique and probably get about $150 in cash on eBay. So, please make a reasonable offer (including S&H).[/b]




I am not sure that EB would give you that $100 towards and if you did you would be getting ripped off.  My best recomendation is to save all that stuff and have a gameing legend, but I'll send you an email instead   Do you accept paypal?


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## Shapermc (Dec 19, 2002)

Mallus said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Couldn't the same be said of the market-leading PS2, which is behind the Gamecube and XBox technology-wise?
> 
> ...(snip)*




Sony's overconfidence with the Playstation name will be their downfall.  They seem to have the mindframe that  they can wrap up a peice of hard doggie poo and slap on the word Playstation and it will succced.     Mark me they will have a down fall and this will be it.


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## Ristamar (Dec 19, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *I couldent agree with you more.  Actually I think the exact oposite of what most people do.  The Big N will back out of making games and just 'whore' out their consoles to the highest bidder.  This is the exact oposite of what SEGA did.  The reasons?   Well Zelda was sold off to be made by another company, F-Zero, Metroid, and even (gasp) Mario.  If you look at it that way they cant lose.
> *




Yeah, a lot of people are surprised to find out Mario Party 4 isn't even made by Nintendo.  Hudson, maker of the Bomberman series, has developed all the Mario Party titles.  There's a few others that are outsourced, as well.

F-Zero is being handled by Sega now, and from what I've seen of it, it looks really sweet.  Can't wait for that one, in arcades and on the GC.

Namco is currently developing StarFox Armada, reminiscent of the original StarFox and StarFox 64, also for arcades and GC.

The peerless Shigeru Miyamoto overlooked Mario Sunshine and the new Zelda, as usual, though I don't know how much programming personnel has changed since the Mario 64 and Ocarina of Time staff was around, and both are still in-house Nintendo products.

And of course, Nintendo owned Retro Studios worked _extremely_ closely with in-house Nintendo staff to develop Metroid Prime.  Talk about an impressive first outing...


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## Destil (Dec 19, 2002)

Nintendo is also completly unopposed in the hand-held market, with the GBA, and there are basicly no chances of that changing any time in the forseable future.

And, personaly, I'd take my GBA over my PS2 any day. Given games like Castelvania: Circle of the Moon, Advanced Wars, Golden Sun, Ogre Battle: Knight of Lodis, F-Zero: Maximum Veloicty, Graidus Galiexys, Metroid Fusion; yhe upcoming Final Fantasy Tacticts sequal, Golden Sun II. Also there's ports of some of the finest games of all time like Zelda III and Super Mario World II, the upcoming Seiken Densetsu Remake, and full backwards compatability with the GBC and GB...

Also of note, Capcom did the Recent re-release of The Legend of Zelda: A link to the Past & Four Swords for the GBA, and Orcals of Seasons / Time for the Game Boy Color. HAL labs handled both Super Smash Brothers Melee and the most Recent Kirby Game for the GBA.


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## shadowlight (Dec 19, 2002)

If you're interested in the online aspects of XBox Live vs. other consoles, I'd recommend this:
http://www.tomshardware.com/game/20021214/index.html


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## Shapermc (Dec 19, 2002)

Destil said:
			
		

> *Nintendo is also completly unopposed in the hand-held market, with the GBA, and there are basicly no chances of that changing any time in the forseable future.
> 
> And, personaly, I'd take my GBA over my PS2 any day. Given games like Castelvania: Circle of the Moon, Advanced Wars, Golden Sun, Ogre Battle: Knight of Lodis, F-Zero: Maximum Veloicty, Graidus Galiexys, Metroid Fusion; yhe upcoming Final Fantasy Tacticts sequal, Golden Sun II. Also there's ports of some of the finest games of all time like Zelda III and Super Mario World II, the upcoming Seiken Densetsu Remake, and full backwards compatability with the GBC and GB...
> 
> Also of note, Capcom did the Recent re-release of The Legend of Zelda: A link to the Past & Four Swords for the GBA, and Orcals of Seasons / Time for the Game Boy Color. HAL labs handled both Super Smash Brothers Melee and the most Recent Kirby Game for the GBA. *




Dont forget Contra  

A "rumor" that I heard was that soon the Big N will be releasing an attachment that allows you to hook up your GBA to your GC and play on the bigscreen, or work as a net work to allow you to see all 4 in a splitscreen like formation.  Now if you hav heard rumors that this is false I will remind you that N has "officially" said that they will not make an add on that allows you to play GBA games on your game cube.  This new one will allow you to play GBA games on your GBA and you can see them on the TV.  If this never gets released don't come pointing fingers at me, but I have quite a relible source.


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## Tsyr (Dec 19, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *A "rumor" that I heard was that soon the Big N will be releasing an attachment that allows you to hook up your GBA to your GC and play on the bigscreen, or work as a net work to allow you to see all 4 in a splitscreen like formation.  Now if you hav heard rumors that this is false I will remind you that N has "officially" said that they will not make an add on that allows you to play GBA games on your game cube.  This new one will allow you to play GBA games on your GBA and you can see them on the TV.  If this never gets released don't come pointing fingers at me, but I have quite a relible source. *




You could always just buy this...

http://www.divineo.com/cgi-bin/div-us/us-gba-tvdva

And skip the whole "Need a 'cube" dealy Nintendo is trying for.

It voids your warrenty, sure, but since everyone who has a GBA I know has an Afterburner already, that's not an issue for us.


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## Shapermc (Dec 19, 2002)

Tsyr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You could always just buy this...
> 
> ...




Ahhh yes . But there are alot of people who would never have the technical know-how to install this  

I thought about getting one, untill I saw the comparison shots from I think it was IGN that showed the GBA screen shots from their "official" unit to the TV and the TVdva and the "unofficial" one looked alittle more . . . Squashed and the colors were a bit faded (nothing that you can fix with the adjustments).  Aside from that if you get that you would need to get 4 TVs to play multiplayer (unless you were playing advance wars )  Besides it would just give me another excuse to but a GC (which I dont know how much longer I can hold out before I just go pick it up with like 4-5 games under my arms. . . .)


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## Ristamar (Dec 19, 2002)

I mentioned the GBA player you're thinking of earlier in this thread.  It will retail in May 2003 for about $40 and be available in 4 different colors (black, indigo, platinum, and... ?).

Here's a link to the official specs.

Here's a link to some impressions of the hardware.


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 20, 2002)

Shapermc said:
			
		

> *
> I am not sure that EB would give you that $100 towards and if you did you would be getting ripped off.  My best recomendation is to save all that stuff and have a gameing legend, but I'll send you an email instead   Do you accept paypal? *




I haven't received an e-mail from you yet. Yes, I would accept Paypal.


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## Shapermc (Dec 20, 2002)

Sir Edgar said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I haven't received an e-mail from you yet. Yes, I would accept Paypal. *



Hmm I just emailed you again.  I emailed the first time right after I posted that one.  Let me know if you don't get it here.  Sorry about that.


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## Sir Edgar (Dec 20, 2002)

Thanks, I got it. Sounds reasonable, but I'd still have to sell all my other games besides Grandia II as well as the accessories. Also, does the amount you offered include S&H? I don't know how much that would be, but if it doesn't include S&H then...


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