# D&D Wargaming: Evil OOC



## Fieari (Mar 22, 2004)

As requested, so as to not clutter the Rogues Gallery.  This thread contains OOC strategizing for the EVIL team.  Good, stay out.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Hey Pyrex, now that you are in, do you want to join the assault on the city. 
If you do keep in mind that it may not go off due to a scrying spell that currently hit me. I will be readjusting my actions after Fieari tells me a couple of things about that spell.


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## Pyrex (Mar 22, 2004)

My army is not optimized for a preemptive strike. The kobolds & skeletons are designed primarily as a siege/blockade force. (i.e. keep them in place while you mop up)

Also, as you've currently planned the attack to occur during the day, you've mostly neutralized my wraiths.

If you want to hit 'em good, turn your initial plan into a feint and hit 'em where they're not looking.

Drak, Tongues, do either of your generals have names?

Fieari, do we control a city between the southern tip of the woods and the north bounds of the desert?


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Pyrex. My character is called the FireKing.
Tonguez character is called the DarK Hunter.

If you are willing to join us your forces can join our ground forces when the gate opens in the courtyard. It will mostly be mopping up from there on.

If you do join us we will change our operation to just after sundown. Your wraiths would pretty much double the effectiveness of our initial strike force.

Pleeaaaasssse join us, it will make a major difference. Just think of the fame and spoils of war you will get.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Fieari: continued from the rogues gallery thread

My dragon is almost exactly cr 15 (exactly 15.024 if I recall) so I was just going to assume he was a 15th level character Xp-wise.


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## Tonguez (Mar 22, 2004)

Oh sh!!T it sems that we are underseige already!

The Good Guys are teleporting in and we know they have a high level Wizard - so anyone got any advice on how we should deal with them (and I think I've already used my Word of Recall for the day!)

so Drak? we gonna stand and fight or do a runner? (Earth Elemental glide here I go....)


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

My troops actions have been posted. I'm definately fighting, if only to ensure they don't get our mirror.

However they arrive they will be fairly bottlenecked so as long as we get lucky with our saves against the wizard. We should win through sheer numbers.

I recommend that you try and block however they arrived if possible. Then go after the mage with everything. I fear a finger of death from him.


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## Fieari (Mar 22, 2004)

After the kind enworlders answer a little question regarding initiative, first round results will be posted.  I of course'll also need the Druid's actions.

The thread where I ask my question in the rules forum kinda gives away a little of the good guys' plan, but you'd be able to see it after the very first round anyways.

I'm posting here, however, because I was reading the other PbP game with dragons as PCs (Dragonlance, the first hunt I think the thread is called)... and their dragons get dragon names as well as human translated names.  I thought that was really cool.

The Draconomicon includes a VERY small English->Dragon Dictionary... but fortunatly, but the words Fire and Leader are given!  So your dragon name could easily be Ixenmaekrix.  How's that sound to you?


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Sounds good. It will be hard to remember though.

Would you be able to modify the rogues gallery thread so it shows our characters and armies on the first page? It would make things much simpler.

What initiatives do you need. It's +2 for the dragon if I recall and I think it is +3 for the mephits and +1 for the kobalds. Those are off the top of my head however so they might be wrong.

Oh, And I'll yell alert when I notice the scry, so all my troops will be ready since all magical teleportation takes at least one round.


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## Fieari (Mar 22, 2004)

My initiative question revolves around how teleport itself effects initiative.  The goodguys have actions they want to perform the MOMENT they arrive.  Is there any initiative modifications because of the teleport...

Do I roll for initiative before or after they arrive, for instance.  If before, then when they arrive they've already acted, and they automatically go first.  If after, then it's just a case of rolling, right?


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## OldCrowe (Mar 22, 2004)

Fieari said:
			
		

> My initiative question revolves around how teleport itself effects initiative.  The goodguys have actions they want to perform the MOMENT they arrive.  Is there any initiative modifications because of the teleport...
> 
> Do I roll for initiative before or after they arrive, for instance.  If before, then when they arrive they've already acted, and they automatically go first.  If after, then it's just a case of rolling, right?




You have to determine surprise. It seems that the Forces of Good will get a free surprise round before initiative is rolled unless you determine there are factors that will tip off Drakknyte and co to their sudden teleportation (ie, they have a chance to spot the portal). If Drak spots the portal, initiative is rolled normally, if Drak fails to notice the portal, Good gets 1 round of actions before initiative is rolled (and Drak is flat-footed for this surprise round). After the surprise, initiative is rolled normally. This is really a judgement call on your part. Teleportation is pretty sudden, and it seems Good has readied actions, normally, I would judge them to have surprise. Drakknyte is a dragon though, and smarter than the average bear, and is aware that a wizard has just scryed his location, and could TP in, so it is not out of the question for him to expect a teleport assault, and in which case he would be ready and initiative be rolled normally (ie make an Int check to be aware of this possibility). I warned Drak of this in the RG, but I am not in game yet, so THAT is all meta-game knowledge, otherwise, our telepathic communique would give him a good chance of being ready.

What am I saying? It's up to you, whatever you think makes a good story.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Fieari (Mar 22, 2004)

Think I've got that covered.  Now I just have to worry about the fact that the good wizard is telling me he has a quickened greater teleport prepared... *smacks forehead at the concept of someone trying to cast an 11th level spell*  These people...


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## OldCrowe (Mar 22, 2004)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Oh sh!!T it sems that we are underseige already!
> 
> The Good Guys are teleporting in and we know they have a high level Wizard - so anyone got any advice on how we should deal with them (and I think I've already used my Word of Recall for the day!)
> 
> so Drak? we gonna stand and fight or do a runner? (Earth Elemental glide here I go....)




Umm...Fight Dirty? We are evil after all. Drakknyte is a dragon, and he is big and red, and the mage has spells like protection from elements, so chances are he and his minions are buffed to the gills on Fire Resistance, so I would limit fire attacks, either by spell or breathweapon, you will probably just waste time.

If the mage makes a personal appearance, you have to kill him quick, it sounds like he has a really jacked-up INT, so his save-or-die spells are going to be murder. Get on him and stay on him.

What do Mages hate? Being Grappled. What do Mages REALLY hate? Being bullrushed into the scrying pool and grappled underwater, only way he will get out of that is contingency or silenced teleport (hard to cast spells with a mouth full of water and 900pds of dragon wrapped around you). I REALLY think the dragon can hold his breath longer than the mage.

STAY MOBILE: Dragon's that stay in one spot and duke it out are easier to kill than one that uses its excellent mobility to perform hit and run tactics. Attacks of Opportunity aren't going to do much on your 43 AC, fly, bite, run away. Keeping off the ground will allow Tonguez to Entangle the place, limiting them abit. Drak, you are too small to make Snatches (Snatch is a really good feat to take once you are Huge size), but you can carry anything you can grapple, either take them for a swim in the pool, or fly them up 150' through the pit and drop them.

Tonguez: You've got that nifty rod, use it and see what happens, probably most will make the save, but the more you take out of the fight, the better. You might also want to meld with stone (preferably after you hid, you don't want to get disintegrated or what not), Summon some critters with Blindsight or tremorsense, and cast Storm of Vengeance, until things get under control, the Disrupting effects that thing puts off will give the melee'ers time to take out spellcasters (maybe, it makes it hard for everyone to see). Shapechanged, you rock, you can do some really incredible damage as a polar bear or what not, and if you get low on hp's, shift to a new form and heal up.


Just some ideas,

C. Rowe


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## Tonguez (Mar 22, 2004)

These are the Tactics I've posted IC. The problem with Storm of Vegeance is that it affects all of us both enemy and ally so I'll save it until we're out of the cave and in the open air. I want to throw a few entangles but not sure what the undergrowth in the cavern might be.
Oh and thanks for the heads up on NOT using firebased spells

and I agree that our best trick is probably to stay mobile

*Druid Tactics* 
*Be Protected by the Dragon*
(_all subject to change on a round by round basis_)
Round 1 - Move into concealment behind the Dragon, Wild Shape to Large Air Elemental (standard action gives me AC 20)
Round 2 - Fog Cloud to fill to obscure the emeies vision
Round 3 - Transmute Rock to Mud on ceiling above enemy troops
Round 4 - Summon Huge Air Elemental (natures ally) to attack in whirlwind form (and disperse the fog)
Round 5 - Pull a Flame Strike down upon the enemy leaders (if the Dragon has the Mage grappled replace the Flame strike with call lightning)
Round 6 - Once the Druid can get behind the Pack its time to leave (with the mirror) *possibly meld into stone if leaving with the mirror isn't practical

*Army Tactics*
1. The flock of ravens (300 of them) come through the mirror first providing cover/concealment for those behind.
2. The Dog Soldiers* follow 5 go to the Druid and act as bodyguard (note 2 already here - they broughtthe mirror and have been guarding it), the other 5 go into offensive and attack the spellcasters
3. As the Dog Soldiers move, 20 _raging_ Barbarians follow and defend the mirror
4. The Pixies then pour in and start shooting anything that looks like it shouldn't be here
5 The Bard in ethereal form comes through and hits the Wizard with a Sound burst

(The Marshall and remaining troops stand in reserve on the other side of the mirror portal)

* Dog Soldiers = Werewolf Rangers



			
				OldCrowe said:
			
		

> Tonguez: You've got that nifty rod, use it and see what happens, probably most will make the save, but the more you take out of the fight, the better. You might also want to meld with stone (preferably after you hid, you don't want to get disintegrated or what not), Summon some critters with Blindsight or tremorsense, and cast Storm of Vengeance, until things get under control, the Disrupting effects that thing puts off will give the melee'ers time to take out spellcasters (maybe, it makes it hard for everyone to see). Shapechanged, you rock, you can do some really incredible damage as a polar bear or what not, and if you get low on hp's, shift to a new form and heal up.
> 
> 
> Just some ideas,
> ...


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## Serpenteye (Mar 22, 2004)

*Questions to Fierari*

*What price would you put on my stronghold?

*What is your ruling on spawning undead, if you have a special ruling? (It would be easy for me and Pyrax to overrun the world if it works like in the core rules. I don't really mind, but it's not much of a challenge)


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## Serpenteye (Mar 22, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> Just a note, I expect the spoils of war to be split evenly between all parties involved, regardless of their effectiveness in a fight. There may be only a partial share if only a part of your troops join the fight though (Half your army gets you half a share). The exception to this is when it has been agreed that the other troops will remain behind to defend, In which case they count as being in the fight. Is this okay with others?




I think that should be determined on a case-by-case basis. I think effectiveness should matter and there are many degrees of participation. Some units are going to be at greater risk than others and it is difficult to create a fair general template for rewards.


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## Serpenteye (Mar 22, 2004)

Fierari, is this an acceptable magic item for my character?

--
Vile Ring of the Arcane Teleporter
Teleport, unlimited use /day, command word activated.
5x9x1800 = 81'000gp

Requirements
Item requires Chaotic Evil alignment to use (81'000 gp x 0,70 = 56'000 gp). Item requires a Wizard to use (56'000 gp x 0,70 = 39'690 gp)

Cost 39'690 gp.
--


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## Pyrex (Mar 22, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> *What is your ruling on spawning undead, if you have a special ruling? (It would be easy for me and Pyrax to overrun the world if it works like in the core rules. I don't really mind, but it's not much of a challenge)




I support the interpretation that undead can control twice their HD worth of spawn.  (this is what is listed in savage species for all intelligent spawn-capable undead)

Drak, Tonguez, I can't figure any way I can help, so it looks like you're on your own defending your lair.  But I'm ready to help out once you've resolved the defense.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Um Tonguez, do you think you could throw some damaging spells in there as well. Cover is all well and good but it blinds my troops if not me. My mephits have a +10 attack bonus but it won't do them much good if they are blind.

I have no intention of running. Here is an excellent opportunity to see what the forces of good are made of. Also I think they are underestimating us. The most troops they can bring in are about 8, and only magic users provide a threat to me (hence my minions will attack them first). And once we destroy them it will be easy to wipe out the city.

Of course they might be better prepared than I think (Shudders at the thought of each army having 2 level 15 mages, all teleporting in at the same time) in which case I will try to grab the mirror if you haven't and skedadle through the hole.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Limiting fire is definately a good idea, as in taking advantage of my insane grapple bonus. If the druid is safe then I'm going to try and grapple the mage.

I'm not actually worried about save-or-die spells right now. I've calculated out that a level 15 wizard, whith max int and the proper feats, can cast a death spell on which I have to roll a 4 or less to be affected by. That is if it has both spell focus feats and a tome of clear thought+5

Fieari, you have noticed that the new spell focus feats only add +1 to that schools DC right? It could make a big difference in this battle.

Fieari when you showed me the dragon classes one of them had the prerequisite, 3 metabreath feats. Can you tell me what metabreath feats are? They sound very nice.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Um Fieari, this is probably going to help my enemies but my allies will probably be interested in this.

In the minautures handbook (Which I don't have but have read a lot of) there is a group of metamagic feats called Suddens.

These feats have the prerequisite: any other metamagic feat and cam only be selected once each

Basically they allow you to add the metamagic to one spell per day without prior preparation and without increasing it's levels.

I'd check the wizards feats. If he has one like sudden quicken spell than he can do that quickened teleport. 

I'm not sure how helpful that will be to him, however. I assume he would have to scry me for at least one round before he could teleport to me and I've thrown up the alert.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 22, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I think that should be determined on a case-by-case basis. I think effectiveness should matter and there are many degrees of participation. Some units are going to be at greater risk than others and it is difficult to create a fair general template for rewards.




While I agree that defending players should get a loot share, it should not be equal...the attacking player is taking casualties and risks while you are cracking open kegs of ale on guard duty. Generally, I would think that a 1/3 share is more than fair for the defending player, high risk/high yield operations might give more or less, as the attacker is certain to take a beating. Whatever the loot split, it should be determined and agreed upon BEFORE the op, so their is no bickering.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Sounds pretty good to me OldeCrow

Tonguez, assuming we win the uppcoming battle.

What do you think of both of us sharing my mountain as a stronghold and using the spoils from the upcoming battle to better defend it.

I am definately getting lead lining ASAP.

Fieari, how much would it cost to lead line my cavern? What about just the treasure room.


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## Serpenteye (Mar 22, 2004)

Hmm. Mr Mage cast Simulacrum, I'm guessing. He/they must have had a contingency set to teleport back after they had cast their attack spell. He should be able to pull that off one more time today, so you may need to prepare yourselves.
Our opponents are no fools, but that will only make slaughtering them that much more satisfying. We are off to an interesting beginning.


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## Pyrex (Mar 22, 2004)

Fieari said:
			
		

> (Well, it turns out they can do this after all... amazing...)




So did the dragon & druid both fumble their Init rolls or is there something else going on here?

Edit:  If he created a _Simulacrum_ at best it's caster level would be 9 (in 3.5  the simulacrum is half the level of the creature being duplicated)


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## Fieari (Mar 22, 2004)

> Alright I'm going to try and determine my XP
> 
> The Dragon is CR15 so I'm going to say he's level 15 which is 105,000 XP
> To get to level 16 he needs to have 120,000.
> ...



I'm going to handle this administrative detail over to Pyrex... I think I trust his word now.  He's got a reply for you in the Rogue's Gallery.



> Also, could someone explain how Feats work when monster get levels. My dragon gets a feat per 4 hit die, but he is going to take levels in monk which get a feat at 1st level, 3rd level, and every 3 levels thereafter. When do I get feats?



Feats are confusing, in general.  A web search has pulled up some clarifications, but I'm not sure how clear the clarifications are...







> It is your total level, not your individual class levels that matter when your regular feats show up.
> 
> Your Individual class levels (Mostly just fighter) matter only for special class feats.
> 
> ...



That suggests that you keep your draconic feat progression.  The alternative is that you SWITCH to monk feat progression... meaning you'd need three levels in monk to gain another feat.

---------------------



> *What price would you put on my stronghold?



I -just- purchased the Stronghold Builder's Guidebook, but it'll take a little while to pour through it.  Let me get back to you on this one.



> *What is your ruling on spawning undead, if you have a special ruling? (It would be easy for me and Pyrax to overrun the world if it works like in the core rules. I don't really mind, but it's not much of a challenge)





> I support the interpretation that undead can control twice their HD worth of spawn. (this is what is listed in savage species for all intelligent spawn-capable undead)



As do I.

------------



> Fierari, is this an acceptable magic item for my character?
> 
> Vile Ring of the Arcane Teleporter
> Teleport, unlimited use /day, command word activated.
> ...



Well, I just checked all your math, and it works out.  Okay.

-------------------------



> Fieari, you have noticed that the new spell focus feats only add +1 to that schools DC right? It could make a big difference in this battle.



Noted.



> Fieari when you showed me the dragon classes one of them had the prerequisite, 3 metabreath feats. Can you tell me what metabreath feats are? They sound very nice.



Metabreath feats ARE very nice.  VERY VERY nice.

```
Clinging Breath		Con 13, Breath Weapon		Breath deals half damage 1 round later (in addition to full damage this round)
   Lingering Breath	Con 15, Clinging Breath		Breath remains as cloud for 1 round
Enlarge Breath		Con 13, Breath Weapon		Length of breath weapon increases by 50%
Heighten Breath		Con 13, Breath Weapon		Increase save against breath weapon
Maximiz Breath		Con 17, Breath Weapon		Maximize breath weapon's variable numeric effects
Quicken Breath		Con 19, Breath Weapon		Use breath weapon as a free action
Recover Breath		Con 17, Breath Weapon		Use breath weapon more often
Shape Breath		Con 13, Breath Weapon, Small+	Expel breath weapon as line or cone
   Split Breath		Shape Breath			Divide breath weapon into two attacks
   Spreading Breath	Con 15, Shape Breath		Expel breath weapon as a spread effect
   Extend Spreading B.	Spreading Breath		Expel breath weapon as spread effect that can be used at range
Tempest Breath		Str 13, Breath Weapon		Breath weapon also produces wind effects
			Power Attack, Large+
```
Each metabreath effect used delays the next time you can use your breath weapon, except recover breath, which shortens it.



> Fieari, how much would it cost to lead line my cavern? What about just the treasure room.



Good thing I just purchased this Stronghold guide thing... lead prices aren't listed ANYWHERE else.  It's 1,000gp to coat 1,600 square feet of wall or floor or ceiling.  I'll need to check dimensions more clearly... for one, the Draconomicon doesn't say how HIGH the ceilings are in the lower or upper caverns, just that the pit leading between them is 150'.  So ceilings are obviously lower than that... but how MUCH lower is the question...



EDIT: I also need to know what the Dark Hunter is doing now... more action is forthcomming, but of course, you don't know when.  Need to calculate times.

If I'm missing questions, just keep pestering me.  There's often so much I miss things.


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## Tonguez (Mar 22, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> Sounds pretty good to me OldeCrow
> 
> Tonguez, assuming we win the uppcoming battle.
> 
> ...




IC The Druid may be a bit reluctant to base himself within the mountain since its already compromised (and so not as secure as it could have been in his eyes) and because as a Druid and Hunter he prefers the open sky and surrounding plants.

ooc is probably a good idea to pool our resources a bit so yeah the Druid will be making constant visiyts to the Lair (but will infact be moving between Lair and Grove on a regular basis)

also Fieari *I will tie my word of recall to the Mirror* so that whereever I go I will return to where the Mirror is installed (and can then use its teleport function)

another point Drakknyte - that mirror was way expensive. So WHEN we defeat the good guys and sack their city I'll be wanting to replenish my gold reserves big time (and/or get more personal magic items) along with the stronghold defense ones - do you think the Fire King will object?...


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## Fieari (Mar 22, 2004)

Word of Recall specifies "Place" and that said place must have at least 10x10 space.  I don't think the mirror qualifies.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Tonguez, please post your IC actions, I really want to get this battle started.

The FireKing wants to leadline his cavern (Which shouldn't cost too much)
And he wants you to cast unhallow, dimensional anchor, and shambler in his lair (which is free but will take a few days)
And he wants some as his hoard (Maybe 10%)

The rest is all yours. I would strongly suggest getting some magic items so you could survive in melee.

I would also suggest some anti-scrying equipment. They know who you are now.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 22, 2004)

Timewise I believe for us is either the night of the first day or the early morning of the second day.

Exact time is however long I spent scrying+1/2 an hour of flight+1 hour of brooding.


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## Dalamar (Mar 22, 2004)

Let's see: 
*Feats for monsters:* _ALL_ characters/monsters gain 1 feat at 1st level/HD and 1 feat every three levels (3rd, 6th, etc), add all levels/monstrous HD together to determine amount of feats. So FireKing has 5 feats (if he gained two levels in any class, he would gain a new feat, in addition to possible bonus feats the class grants).
_Sidenote:_ I haven't checked FireKing's skill points, but he should have (6+Int mod) x (HD+3) skill points, which comes as 112 skill points for the FireKing.
*Shade abilities:* _Control Light_ Decrease lighting in area by 10%/level (so technically can have their abilities nonstop). _Shadesight_ is darkvision, and (not sure on this one, I don't have the FRCS) the ability to see through even magical darkness. _Shadow Image_ Mirror Image. _Shadow Stride_ Dimension Door as a Move action, can act after moving (IIRC). _Shadow Travel_ Plane Shift between Material and Shadow Plane once per day.


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## Serpenteye (Mar 22, 2004)

Dalamar said:
			
		

> Let's see:
> *Shade abilities:* _Control Light_ Decrease lighting in area by 10%/level (so technically can have their abilities nonstop). _Shadesight_ is darkvision, and (not sure on this one, I don't have the FRCS) the ability to see through even magical darkness. _Shadow Image_ Mirror Image. _Shadow Stride_ Dimension Door as a Move action, can act after moving (IIRC). _Shadow Travel_ Plane Shift between Material and Shadow Plane once per day.




Thanks a lot Dalamar, looks pretty nice.



			
				Pyrex said:
			
		

> Edit:  If he created a _Simulacrum_ at best it's caster level would be 9 (in 3.5  the simulacrum is half the level of the creature being duplicated)




But in 3,0 it can be multiply empowered into a higher level than the caster   .


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## Dalamar (Mar 22, 2004)

It had a variable level in 3.0? Empower only works on the variables of a spell, not statistical bonuses (otherwise people would've started empowering Greater Magic Weapons a long time ago).


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## Pyrex (Mar 23, 2004)

In 3.0 the simulacrum had some-number-of-dice-percent of the XP of the duplicated creature.  Empower a couple of times and hilarity ensues.


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## Fieari (Mar 23, 2004)

I'm going to be frank.  I've been rolling the dice, and it ISN'T LOOKING PRETTY for you guys.  As such, I want to make CERTAIN I'm being ABSOLUTELY FAIR, because this round could very easily see both your demise, AND the loss of your mirror.  Right now, this moment.  Now, if everything works out this way... the good players have been doing a good job.  But I need to make certain that none of this is my fault, being a bad DM.

FireKing, your move this round is going to kill most of the lights, and most of your own mephits, at the same time.

Hunter, you will dispel the wall of force.

Thus, you have USED UP your moves.

The two Wizards have their Greater Invisibility dispelled, and are now visible (and in the hallway).  This, however, will not stop them from casting Disintegrate on both Hunter and the FireKing.  I rolled the dice, and they've gotten past your fort saves, you have 30d6 worth of damage heading your way.

After this, early next round, the surviving lights will attempt to teleport your mirror away.  They will likely succeede.

What mitigating factors do you have?  Give me an excuse to not have this be a rout.


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## Pyrex (Mar 23, 2004)

Fer starters, dragons have Blindsense to 60' and so FK should have noticed the wizards even while they were still invisible.


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## Fieari (Mar 23, 2004)

This is what it looked like.  Now, knowing that FireKing can see the leftmost Wizard, change of action please?

```
LOWER LEVEL                  150            225
                              *              *
 0        1         2         3         4    *
 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
A..................WWWWWWWWWW..............
B.................WWWWWWWWWWWW.......####..
C.###FK##........##WWWWWWWWWWW#.....######.
D####FK/###.....#####WWWWWWWW###....#######
E##########.....#################...#######
F##########.....################.....#####.
G##H######@#.....##############.....######.
H.#######@###############################..
I.......@###############################...
J.........#*#######*.......###########.....

FK = FireKing (big guy, ain't ee)
H = Hunter
/ = Mirror of Mental Prowess
@ = Wall of Force
* = Wizard
```


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## Pyrex (Mar 23, 2004)

DK, Tonguez, you have to assume the wizards are warded with the following spells:
_Stoneskin, Freedom of Movement, Protection from Fire, Spell Resistance_.

The _Wall of Force_ blocks line of effect in both directions.  

Suggestion:
DK, through he 'Bond, tell Tonguez that you see the wizard in the tunnel.

Tonguez, move to H2 and center an _Earthquake_ at T18 or so to collapse the tunnel and bury the wizard(s).


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

More bad news, villains.  The Good Guys have just informed me that Wall of Force:

A) Cannot be dispelled with dispell, or even greater dispell.
B) Blocks Blindsense.
C) Blocks Earthquake.

It wouldn't block truesight... but what can you do?


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

So, er, where exactly does _Wall of Force_ say anything about blocking blindsense?

Edit:  Nevermind.  Tonguez can't place the center of the EQ where I was suggesting.  However, depending on how the good guys defined the WoF he may be able to cheese them with _Transmute Stone to Mud_

Target the ceiling above G8 as the origin point and the effect extends (to 36x 10' cubes) out into the cavern above the WoF as follows.  (The WoF is still there, you just cave the ceiling on both sides of it)


```
0        1         2         3         4  
 123456789012345678901234567890123456789012
A..................WWWWWWWWWW..............
B.................WWWWWWWWWWWW.......####..
C.###FK##........##WWWWWWWWWWW#.....######.
D####FK/###.....#####WWWWWWWW###....#######
E##########.....#################...#######
F#######MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....#####.
G##H####MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM....######.
H.######MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM#########..
I.......MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM####...
J.......MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM######.....
K.......MMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMMM...........
```


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

> Also, dragons get blindsense not blindsight in 3.5. It requires a line of affect, which the dragon doesn't have because of the wall of force. So, if I'm correct, then our previous actions should be unaffected.



This seems accurate to me... having trouble finding the exact spot that this is mentioned though.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Er, I'm not finding anything about Blindsense needing line-of-effect.  Either way, check the edit above.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

Found (been given) the blindsense thing.



> 3.5 Srd
> Blindsense: Other creatures have blindsense, a lesser ability that lets the creature notice things it cannot see, but without the precision of blindsight. The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, *provided that it has line of effect to that creature*. Any opponent the creature cannot see has total concealment (50% miss chance) against the creature with blindsense, and the blindsensing creature still has the normal miss chance when attacking foes that have concealment. Visibility still affects the movement of a creature with blindsense. A creature with blindsense is still denied its Dexterity bonus to Armor Class against attacks from creatures it cannot see.



Dragon can't blindsense past the Wall of Force.  When did your truesight come into effect?


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

when did the wall of force come up. I have blindsense on all the time. If the wizards had turned invisible after the finger of deaths I would have noticed them. I even specifically mentioned this in one post. Also I was definately looking in their direction after they finger-of-deathed me. Also I mentioned I was actively searching for them, In other words I was moving around. If they were farther than 60 feet from me I would have started by moving in there direction. Even at the maximum range of Finger of death that would have put me close enough to see them with blindsight. And finally since they must have used up their actions for the round with that stunt I will definately move before them.

I will change my actions after I hear from Fieari on this.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

They turned invisible after they returned to their home base, then they came back, outside the room and with the stone wall between you and them, and put up the wall of force.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Okay crap. I will do what I can and all other forces of evil make sure you learn from my mistakes.

Fieari regardless of what happens when I die please make me into a ghost dragon immediately and post my new stats in the rogues gallery.

I am now going to post the best I can think up to save us.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

As long as the WoF is up they can't _Disintegrate_ (or do pretty much anything else to) you.

What're they're Move Silent scores like?  None of the mephits or kobolds (or FK himself) heard them?  Was the WoF cast silently?


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

It was cast after the balls of light and the air mephits started making so much noise.  This was the plan.

And let me say right now that they can, in fact, cast disintegrate on you more or less whenever they want.  Standard action takes down the wall.  And remarkably, they're able to cast disintegrate quickened.  They may only be level 15, but DANG they've got a powerful build.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Actually I'm am going to wait a little bit more before posting so Fieari can answer a few more questions.

If the dispel doesn't block the wall of force what does it do to the invisible wizards.

Does the druid move before the lights, and can he dimensionally anchor the mirror. (hint hint)

Did you remember I still had 10 kobalds in the hallway with readied actions.

what action does it take for a wizard to drop a wall of force.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

Wall of Force blocks spells, which would shield the wizards from the effect of dispel magic.  The only reason earthquake would work is because the wall doesn't extend beyond the rock.

Do you want to see my initiative list?


```
This list was when I'd mistakenly thought there were only 30 mephits
in the room.  However, it still works, for the most part.  All instances of 
lights replaced with "Some Number of Lights" in order to hide enemy troop
numbers.
Some Number of Light
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
FireKing
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Hunter
Some Number of Lights
Wizard
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Wizard
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Some Number of Lights
Air Mephit
Air Mephit
```


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Sheesh this just gets worse and worse.

Posting the only action that may get us anywhere. Please raise me as a dragonghost immediately. Tonguez please anchor the mirror and beat these guys.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

You don't need to be "raised" as a dragon ghost.  That happens because the invaders steal your gold.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Don't give up yet, there're still a few solutions.
-Touch the mirror and _Wind Walk_ out. (they may be able to dispel it, but it's an idea)
-_Earthquake_ the whole cavern (you both have enough hp to survive, the mages may not)
-_Fog Cloud_ to prevent them from targeting you.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

I meant that, due to the circumstances, if I die I become a ghost immediately. As in while the battle is still happening. It is your call though.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

I'll be generous and give you a decreasing DC will save each round to manifest as your ghostly self.

As for the mirror guardians... as I mentioned, there hasn't been enough time for anything other than ravens to come through, at all.  The two dogs are there, but there are more lights than dogs.  Each dog can only manage an attack and an attack of opportunity each.  The ravens don't have a high enough BAB to concern the lights enough, esspecially with their aura of menace on.

Here's something to look up at though... if they do teleport away with it, Hunter's army will be streaming into the home of whoever has taken the mirror.  Not only that, if the Hunter teleports back to the grove, he'll be able to walk through the portal himself unless the good guys figure out the commands programmed into the mirror (unique to each mirror).

Need Tonguez's move confirmation.  Then the body count will be known.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

"Sigh" I'm just annoyed that I can't think of anything to do about this. Tonguez might save us but right now I'm pretty useless.
The most annoying thing is that I didn't even think of putting up preventions for this.

Guess it really shows what a newb I am to D&D. The basic military tactic in all high level story hours and I did nothing to stop it.

Does the dragon ghost just apply the normal ghost template or is it different? I remember reading something about one that really increases your breath weapon and bite attack at the cost of everything else. That might have been a different undead dragon template though.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

It's mostly the normal ghost template, except you gain an ADDITIONAL breath weapon, which creates a cone of gray mist, which causes "catastrophic ability drain", permanently losing a number of points of dex, str, and con equal to your base age catagory, save negates and renders them immune to your weapon for 24 hours (although your other attacks still work).

I don't think there are any other additional modifications to the template...


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

That sounds pretty cool.

But what about the save DC?
A breath weapon normally has a DC of 1/2 hit dice + con modifier.
When you change into a ghost does the con modifier change into a charisma modifier? This is what happens with most undead.
And do PC class levels count toward the hit dice modifier to DC?
And how are we going to determine what extra special abilities I have?

I just never run out of questions do I


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## Dalamar (Mar 24, 2004)

I am _so_ going to add a permanent Mind Blank to my character. "Bye bye, Scying!".  Though it does have the annoying side-effect that I can't get Rary's Telepathic Bond with the rest of you. No matter, I can always Greater Teleport if there is need to discuss something. I'll just dispatch a couple of quasits to everybody to work as messengers for me.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

_Mind Blank_ is good, but given the variety of other ways to prevent _Scrying_ I really think that in the long run the _Telepathic Bond_ is more valuable.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Hmm, apparently my forces have been wiped out. Which means that my ghost dragon no longer has any support. What happens to high level troops when they don't have any low level troops to support them?

Still waiting to know how we are deciding what extra abilities I get.

Would It be possible to get the metabreath feats using my CHA modifier instead of my (now inexistant) CON modifier.

Would it be alright if I rearranged my skills and feats. I'm pretty sure I messed up when I put them together last time.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

I'll apply the template, since I have step by step instructions here.  As to support... if you gain additional CR, you must spend it on support before you can go above the baseline again.

As for switching CHA and CON, let me get back to you on that.  When it's time for you to level, we'll see.

By the way, one of the reasons I disallowed ressurection spells is because I want death to be shocking, and also because I wanted there to be one or two artifacts that allow ressurection throughout the land.  A quest to find such would be interesting, methinks...


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Alright but you didn't answer my question about wether I could fix my feats and skills. I'm pretty sure I should have 1 more feat and 21 more skill points.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Oh, suddenly I had another thought.

Tonguez, would the Hunter have told FK or Kael the command words for the Mirror?


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

I'll let you fix your dragon.


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## Serpenteye (Mar 24, 2004)

Fieari said:
			
		

> I'll let you fix your dragon.




Is my character ok to go?


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Pyrex: I assume hunter told me the command and I will tell you if you ask me through the telepathic bond.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Alright folks heres the deal. I am currently a ghost dragon with some very kickass abilities (see rogues gallery for more details). I am flying towards the city that the two wizards came from and I plan on making them pay. I shouldn't take more than 5 or six hours to get there meaning they won't have time to rest and recover their spells.

When I get to the city I plan on going underground and ethereal up to the wizards tower. When I get there I will go into the tower still ethereal and using my +17 hide skill until I find the wizards. Once I find them I am going to move down a level and manifest. Then I am going to move up to the level with the wizard (5 foot step) and use a full attack action. This should let me hit the wizard 3-4 times with energy drain, causing him to lose whatever high level spells he has left. Then I plan on finishing him up with more energy drains. 

If both wizards are together I will split my energy drain attacks between them if I can. If they are to far appart I will focus on one and hope the other doesn't have any tricks up his sleeve.

Now I need other peoples opinions on this, as I am flying I am talking through the telepathic bond asking for the other leader's advice. Can you think of anything I am doing wrong. Anything else I should add. What do you think I should expect from the wizards. Remember the wizards might actually be sorcerors and I know they have metamagic wands but I don't know what else they might have or what spells they could use against a ghost.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Good.  We may be able to suprise them by closing their gate at an inopportune moment.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Don't forget your _Shield_ spell.  The first thing their army of apprentices is going to try is blasting you with a few hundred of them.  Next a junior wizard will _Dispel_ (which will succeed as you're only CL 1) it and they'll try again.  Leave before this happens.

Don't be too suprised if you can't get inside their tower.  A _Forbiddance_ will prevent you from manifesting within.  Tear up their apprentices and leave before they get organized.

Hit and run.  If they get a chance to cast a spell you're done.  (i.e. _Forcecage_)


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

It's roughly 320 miles from your former lair to the mountain city.  You can go 150' per round, which is 1,500 feet per minute, 90,000 feet per hour, which is 17.05 miles per hour.  We can easily assume you can keep this up without rest, being a ghost.  320/17 gives us a flight time of roughly eighteen hours, fourty five minutes.  They may be able to manage some sleep time after all.  Just so you know.


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Being undead means he's immune to subdual damage.

That means he can _hustle_ the whole way there at 34mph cutting his flight time down to 9.3 hrs.


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## Tonguez (Mar 24, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Oh, suddenly I had another thought.
> 
> Tonguez, would the Hunter have told FK or Kael the command words for the Mirror?




Yes FK would know - the Mirror was intended as Troop transport and Dragon and Rider pretty much had combined command of the troops  

why?

The Bard and Marshall know too (and thats all). Kael probably doesn't since the Hunter still wasn't too keen on undead, despite swearing fealty to the Lich King (its all politics afterall) - and now thats moot!

Anyway anyone got ideas on what I should do for a new General? (I've got a Level 10 Bard and a Level 10 Marshall already (presuming the Bard doesn't get roasted too) so I could just upgrade one of them...

(ps note to self - Death Ward is a great spell!, Make sure Unhallow is in place and Kill 'em all!.)


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Your both wrong actually.
If you look under the description of true dragons it gives you the long range movement scores for all dragon flight speeds. Under 150' speed the long range movement is 40 miles an hour for hustling. Since I am immune to subdual damage as noticed above I can hustle for any amount of time.
If you want to get really bad I haven't seen anything that says undead can't sprint the whole way.

In other words I can get to their city in 8 hours. Long enough for them to sleep but only if they go to sleep immediately and not long enough to study their spells even with that.

To the rest of you.
Forbiddance and forecage two things to look out for all right. 
Will Forbiddance stop me if I am already manifested?


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## Pyrex (Mar 24, 2004)

Oops.  Ya got me there.  I was going off the speeds listed in the exploration section.  They must've figured that flight is a little faster than walking. 



			
				Drak said:
			
		

> Will Forbiddance stop me if I am already manifested?



That is open to interpretation and needs a DM ruling.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Fieari please say it will let me. Otherwise I'm going to be useless in base assaults. I will still take the damage which might actually kill me.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

It says it prevents planar TRAVEL, meaning you can't manifest or demanifest in a forbiddance area.  Says nothing about being there, either etherially or manifestly.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 24, 2004)

Yay  

One more question (there will be others later I'm sure)
How long do my temporary hit points from level drain at full Hp last?
Do these temp. HP stack with temp. HP gained from level draining other people? I can just see myself draining a whole village and then entering a fight with several hundred extra HP. 

I need every advantage against these wizards that I can get.


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## Serpenteye (Mar 24, 2004)

Fierari, would you please give me a ruling on my character. I need to know wether or not it's legal and if there's something wrong I need to know what. I cannot do anything until I have heard from you.
I'm sorry for bothering you and I won't ask you again.


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## Fieari (Mar 24, 2004)

Sorry about that.  This previous little conflict has litterally taken up more than 8 hours of my time... I really couldn't GET to it.

Now I have time.  I'll spend the next hour looking it over.

EDIT: Actually Pyrex has done a pretty good job of it for me.  Those things he pointed out are definitely the things that caught my eye... fix those, then I'll look it over again.


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## Dalamar (Mar 25, 2004)

Okay, my army is pretty much ready to be thrown to the game if the Good side has a counterpart for me.


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## Serpenteye (Mar 25, 2004)

Fixed it.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 25, 2004)

Pyrex if your army ever does get to a place to be assaulted tell me over the telepathic bond a day in advance. 1 day is pretty much all I need to get anywhere on the map.

My character will be a major boost to any assault and I don't want much in the way of rewards (1/4th of the spoils, maybe less). I'll also need you to carry my share of the spoils (no telekinesis unfortunately). Mostly I just want to reak some havoc and get revenge.

Fieari the reason I don't want much in the way of spoils is that the Lich King decided my desire to protect my wealth was what made me lose the last battle (Entirely possible, I was way to focused on protecting the mirror) so he trapped my spirit when I died and changed it so when I came back my purpose was not to recover my hoard but to destroy the good lands. I hope this is acceptable to you, it just made a good reason for me to stick around even after I rebuilt my wealth.


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## Pyrex (Mar 25, 2004)

It'll happen.  As players adapt I expect the port-n-assassinate tactics to slow down.


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## Fieari (Mar 25, 2004)

I'm actually hoping everyone votes for the restart... much cleaner, and we'll have at least 4 armies on each side _starting_... so everyone gets to play.


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## Pyrex (Mar 25, 2004)

I voted (conditionally) yes.

Oddly enough, the two armies that would (essentially) be unchanged by my propositon are mine & Drak's.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 25, 2004)

Hey Pyrex this one's for you.

When I went to bed last night I started considering strategy again. One thing that popped up in my mind is that an army is most vulnerable away from their home and base defenses and moving in a predictable pattern. In other words, an army at march. I'm not afraid of high level assasinations against my character right now since he is both on another plane and has full cover/concealement but your army isn't quite that safe. Do you have any preparations/stratagies against someone teleporting close to your army and opening fire before teleporting away again. If someone did this a couple of times a day with a high level caster it would wear down your army and put your commander at risk.

My suggestion, If I understand your army right you have kobald archers riding worgs. Have bunches of these kobalds spread out among your army with readied actions to shoot anything that teleports in unexpectedly. At the very least you might get lucky and kill a high leveled wizard.


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## Pyrex (Mar 25, 2004)

None of them are actually riding the wolves.

The archers are limited to a single-action per round so they can't ready to attack (they'd have to stand there and I'd never get anywhere).

The skeletal wolf cavalry roams around the army and has plenty of speed/actions to keep a partial charge readied against any living creature that comes within range. (they're hungry )

Also the fact that the army never stops makes it harder to teleport correctly.

And if they give me an action they could have a problem.

But yes, those wizards could wear me down.  But they've got to find me first.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 25, 2004)

Right now you might not have to worry about them finding you but once you are on there lands you will be noticed eventually.

The trouble with wolves is that they need to be right next to a character to attack. Readied actions only allow one standard action OR one move action. If they are more than 5 feet away the wolves can't do anything.

What if you put some of your zombies on the wolves. The wolves use their action to keep moving while the zombies uses their action to have a readied attack.


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## Pyrex (Mar 25, 2004)

A "partial charge" is a standard action and can be readied.
That way the wolves only have to be within 50'

The zombies aren't capable riders, that's not gonna work so well.

*ponders constructing platform & _Telekinetically_ hoisting a half-dozen archers a 100' into the air*


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## Tonguez (Mar 25, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> And if they give me an action they could have a problem.
> 
> But yes, those wizards could wear me down.  But they've got to find me first.




That I think is the key to DnD warfare - we have learnt painfully that High Level assasinations are easy, and that holding your ground makes you too much of a target. 

The key then must be geurilla warfare - keep moving, use cover and concealment, buff up, hit hard and then leave. 

Like the Druid - he _might_ have been awesome in the open on the battlefeild making long range attacks and changes to the terrain. Stuck inside without the ability to move freely (and without those 24 hour casting time defenses) he was meat!


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 25, 2004)

I'm planning on using guerrila warfare. I have a one person army so I don't have much choice.

But I don't think that is the only way to do it. High level assasinations must have a weak point somewhere. Maybe a special magic item that will let you teleport in but not out. That would cause havoc the next time a mage tried to do a hit and run. Can anyone think of a way to do that.

Of course teleportation isn't the only worry. Look at my character, he has an insane speed and can travel underground without leaving any traces. How do you beat a creature like that.

And now that I wrote that down I just came up with several more stratagy's to take advantage of with my character


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 25, 2004)

Actually I don't think holding your ground will be much of a problem anymore. Lead lining and Forbiddance will stop people from spying or popping in and out. Forbiddance can kill low level creatures of opposite alignment. The proper placement of traps and guards will stop anyone but a rogue or incorporeal creature from entering the layer.

That does leave the rogues and incorps however. And good ideas on how to stop a ghost with a +17 hide skill?


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## Pyrex (Mar 25, 2004)

_Forbiddance_ only covers a certain amount of area.  To protect a large area they have to be layered...

Besides if they manifest and enter the _Forbiddance_ they can't run away to the ethereal plane.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 26, 2004)

Forbiddance is also half price so it won't be too expensive to cover a large fortress.

A ghost can't demanifest in a forbidden area but he can go through a wall and have full cover/concealement then just strike and retreat. Also the ability to go through walls means most base defenses and traps are useless against a ghost.

Can anyone think of anything that is good against a ghost? I need to know what to expect when I assault the wizards tower.


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## Pyrex (Mar 26, 2004)

[Force] effects, ghost touch weapons, attack spells & magic weapons (50% miss chance), guard creatures _Plane Shifted_ onto the ethereal.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 26, 2004)

Keep in mind, that a entering an area with Forbiddance may damage you, you need to make a will save, or you could take up to 12d6 for entering a forbidden area.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 26, 2004)

Will is my strongest save.
I can just survive 12d6 points of damage
I gain 5 hp every time I energy drain someone.


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## Pyrex (Mar 26, 2004)

Also keep in mind that depending on the layout of their stronghold (and how they distributed their _Forbiddances_ if they have any) you may be taking that damage more than once.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 26, 2004)

In that case I'll start taking out everyone in the city and wait for them to come to me. That was my original plan but I figured I shouldn't give them time to prepare if I had the choice. If the city is covered with forbiddance I will use my energy drain a lot more often to keep my hp's up


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## OldCrowe (Mar 26, 2004)

My Army is very close to completion, at least stat-wise. I need to complete 1 more stat-block, buy army equipment, and fortify the stronghold.

Any suggestions or critiques are welcome, I'm looking at you, Pyrex   

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Pyrex (Mar 26, 2004)

Even at half cost they can't afford to _Forbid_ more than their stronghold and a few other key locations.  You've got to be careful though because you can't stand up to them face-to-face.

Instead of fighting them directly, I think you'll be much more effective if you concentrate on economic warfare until another army or two comes online.  

Stay away from their stronghold.  Terrorize smaller nearby settlements, destroy the crops, burn down the buildings.  Find their mines and collapse them (bury the miners alive if you can; they'll have to divert troops and try to rescue them).  Never stay in the same place for more than a few minutes.

Make them spread themselves so thin trying to find you that when the other army comes online the majority of their force won't be in their stronghold.


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## Pyrex (Mar 26, 2004)

OldCrowe said:
			
		

> Any suggestions or critiques are welcome, I'm looking at you, Pyrex




I'll take a look.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 26, 2004)

Pyrex, Fieari sayed the good villages are about 1 day's horse ride apart from each other. Do you know how for that is? I think it's only a couple of hours flight for me but exact time would be useful.

If you don't think I should assault their leaders then I won't but I think I have a really good opportunity right now. They just wasted a bunch of spells and metamagic items killing me. I will be able to reach them before they can recharge. They have no idea what I am. And I can drain 12 levels in 1 round if I get lucky on attack rolls. I also have a very high hide skill, possibly enough to stop them from noticing me. If I can find them separated and pull off a full attack the first round I will have a major advantage.

At least that is how I saw things, If you can think of a good reason for me not to directly assault them then I'll listen.

In that case, what about the city? If I spent most of my time hiding and underground with the occasional rise to use my breath weapon I could do some major damage to their army. Or is that a bad idea as well.


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## Pyrex (Mar 26, 2004)

"A days ride" is ~48 miles accd to the SRD.  Keep in mind that those 48mi in between villages aren't empty, there will be plenty of farmsteads for you to ravage.

If their stronghold isn't heavily warded it's probably worth the effort to make one quick strike.  You'll have to be very careful and hope you can catch them sleeping.

They've got enough low-level mages to put the hurt to you pretty quickly.  One _Dispel Magic_ followed by a volley of _Magic Missiles_ and you're toast.  That's why I want you to force them to spread out.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 27, 2004)

48 miles is about 1hour, 3minutes flight time for me. In one day I could wipe out over a dozen villages  

My first look into their stronghold is strictly for scouting. If it is heavily warded or a bunch of low-level mages are hanging out I'm going to plan B.

Plan B is striking at the low-level troops and citizens of the city, especially the low-level mages. If I manifest underground, take a 5' step up' use my breath weapon, and move underground again I will be able to strike  at them and retreat in 1 round. Just like they did to me. If I move around the city a lot and use my obscene hide skill they shouldn't be able to do much against me. The only way for them to beat me like this is have a whole lot of apprentices with redied actions waiting for me or for one of the commanders to show up and get lucky with a spell.

Fieari: Precisely how long does it take for me to reach the city. I desparately need to know if it is under 9 hours.


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## Fieari (Mar 27, 2004)

I'm having you get there at Day 2: 9am sharp, from a starting point of midnight.  I know that you probably should have gotten there a little sooner, but I'm delaying you a teensy bit due to my enlarged sense of drama... 9am has some interesting things going on, and the appearance of a ghostly dragon at that moment is just too good to pass up.

I'm going to attribute the delays to you losing your bearings slightly... you've got quite a few miles to go, you're travelling mostly underground so it's easy to get lost.  Not very lost, but enough to delay you slightly.

Tactically, this gives neither side any real advantage or disadvantage that they'd've had if you showed up a little earlier.  This way just looks cooler, is all.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 27, 2004)

Actually 9 am sharp means that they would have just enough time to rest and restore their spells if they went to bed immediately upon getting back from my layer. It's unlikely they did that but I like to try and keep my bases covered. 

Of course if I can cause more havoc at 9 then I'm all for it


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## Fieari (Mar 27, 2004)

Right now, you're mostly going after women and children, the elderly and the sick, since most of the city's able bodied men are listening to a speech... I'll be counting the death toll until the forces of good have the means to combat you.  Unless you'd like to dive into that mass of able bodied men straight out of the gate, with the wizard watching you...


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## Fieari (Mar 27, 2004)

Oh, by the way... as to your purpose being the destruction of the Good forces... I'd MUCH rather have it be the return of your hoard.

Why?

1) It's cooler that way.
2) Your CR is greater than 20... that's practically epic.  You need an artifact-like weakness, me-thinks.

I will specify that it needs to be your SPECIFIC hoard, and every single peice of it.  The money has already been spent, and it's going to be scattered across the globe.

However, the Lich King is USING that to keep a hold on you.  He knows you can't be free until your hoard is returned, so it is in his best interests to keep your hoard scattered across the globe, making it nearly impossible for the good guys to get it back.  And if they DO get it back, it means dedicating a LOT of resources... and besides, there's more potential for conflict right there... lich's forces preventing the return of your hoard, good forces trying to return it.

And of course, if they DON'T try returning it, you always reform a number of days later.

I have images of a certain pirate movie stuck in my head now... hehe.

You are under the effect of a suggestion that makes you THINK your purpose is the destruction of the good armies though, so YOU don't have to actively seek your gold.  It's just that if the gold is returned, you go away.

Satisfactory?

Please note that in ghostly form, you can still gather up an army of your own (and will)... it's just that your baseline will be darn low at first.  You've got a little ways to go.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 28, 2004)

Very Satisfactory. Actually I'm impressed, it's very impressive reasoning. Just make sure they have to work to find that little secret out.


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## Drakknyte32 (Mar 30, 2004)

BOOYAH! I just landed evil's first blow against the forces of good.  
Not that I'm overproud or anything, but it is nice to get some revenge.  

Anyways just wanted to ask a favor. Could someone get my remains from my mountain and keep them somewhere safe. I might find a use for them someday.

Additionaly if you ever find some of my hoard please put it where nobody can get to it. Like the bottom of the ocean. I think I'm starting to like this new form and don't really want to disappear anytime soon.

Hope to see you all on the battlefield soon.

(I'm happy can you tell  )


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

Fieari:

I believe I am ready, let me know when I may enter the game.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Fieari (Mar 30, 2004)

As I just mentioned in the RG, go right on in.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

Fieari said:
			
		

> As I just mentioned in the RG, go right on in.




Okay, for starters, just how aware am I of the events that have transpired? Is the Telepathic Bond still valid with Drakknyte (I assume it ended with his mortal death). As far as I know, I am only in contact with Kael/Pyrex, but I am unsure how you wish to work the link with the others since I was not active at the time.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Tonguez (Mar 30, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> Anyways just wanted to ask a favor. Could someone get my remains from my mountain and keep them somewhere safe. I might find a use for them someday.




I'm working on that now (my Bard is heading to the Mountain to collect the remains of the Druid, so he can get the Dragons too - hmm perhaps we can create a hybrid Half-Dragon Druid from the combination!)

Anyway good work on the city - keep it up! and watch out for Celestials. 
_since we know there is a celestial player who probabaly has a high CR celestial PC teleporting to the city who can hit you with positive energy attacks_


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## Pyrex (Mar 30, 2004)

You're general would have been there (and thus participated in the bond), he was just too busy to contribute until now.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> You're general would have been there (and thus participated in the bond), he was just too busy to contribute until now.




Understood. What range are we using on Mirrors of Mental Prowess now? Before, we seemed to be giving them unlimited range, but the correct range is a paltry 1080' ft.

Re, 

C. Rowe


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## Pyrex (Mar 30, 2004)

Even though _Clairvoyance_ is the prerequisite spell, I don't think the range is intended to be limited to 1080'.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Even though _Clairvoyance_ is the prerequisite spell, I don't think the range is intended to be limited to 1080'.




In order to open a portal, you must view the area with the mirror's clairvoyance function. Clairvoyance's range is long (400'+40'/level) which with the item's Caster level of 17th, makes it 1080'. It is severly nerfed compared to the 3.0 version, which operated as scrying.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Pyrex (Mar 30, 2004)

The _Mirror_'s description also explicitly states that you can use it's _Clairvoyance_ function to view other planes.  Just how far away is the elemental plane of earth?

I believe the _intent_ of the mirror is that it operate at limitless range.  There are many items whose prerequisite spells are similar (but not identical) to their effect (ex: Necklace of Adaptation).  

Similarly, I belive the _Mirror_'s _Clairvoyance_ ability is similar (but not identical) to the _Clairvoyance_ spell; both because it can view other planes and also because it can see beyond 1080'.

Justification the 2nd:  It's way overcosted if it's limited to 1080'.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> The _Mirror_'s description also explicitly states that you can use it's _Clairvoyance_ function to view other planes.  Just how far away is the elemental plane of earth?
> 
> I believe the _intent_ of the mirror is that it operate at limitless range.  There are many items whose prerequisite spells are similar (but not identical) to their effect (ex: Necklace of Adaptation).
> 
> ...




Fine by me, I just wish to get a clarification before I start doing things with it I'm not supposed to. If such is the case, I am in game now, Pyrex, and can give your Army a ride if you need it.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

So what is everyone up to at this point?

As far as I can tell,

Drakknyte is causing havoc in Low Gate

Tonguez's Bard is mounting a retrieval mission on the Dark Hunter's corpse.

Pyrex?

My intentions currently, are to:

A: Get Tonguez back into the game, I can rebond his Bard, so he has communication.

B: Perform alot of recon. I need to find the locations of Southern Villages, Towns, and Fortresses. My primary way of doing this will probably be to scry the roads from Low Gate, and see where they lead. Once I have some locations, I will insert my Doppelgangers to learn more about these towns and villages, and perhaps show up in person to use Greater Arcane Sight to survey any magic defences they have.

C: Once I have the locations of a few towns down, I will probably pick a lightly defended village to do a raid. Raiding their villages hopefully will put them back on the defensive a bit. I plan to do this very carefully, striking in the dead of night, and masking my assaults with illusions, I don't want Good to find out about my raids until the day after I'm gone.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Pyrex (Mar 30, 2004)

Before you volunteer to move my army, what alignment did you key your _Forbiddance_ to?  My army takes up a lot of space...

I'm currently marching to reinforce the garrison just our side of the desert.  Once we've got the city there locked down I'll be moving my troops into the south. (either via mirror or by crossing the desert)
Also keep in mind that moving my army via mirror will tie it up for quite some time (but if you don't mind it works for me).

C: Sounds good.  I can provide some troops towards your raids.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 30, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Before you volunteer to move my army, what alignment did you key your _Forbiddance_ to?  My army takes up a lot of space...
> 
> I'm currently marching to reinforce the garrison just our side of the desert.  Once we've got the city there locked down I'll be moving my troops into the south. (either via mirror or by crossing the desert)
> Also keep in mind that moving my army via mirror will tie it up for quite some time (but if you don't mind it works for me).
> ...




My Forbiddances are keyed Neutral Evil, However the mirror room is unaffected by Forbiddance, and I expect it is rather spacious. I am not planning major troop movements at this moment, so if I can assist you, I don't mind.

Re,

C. Rowe


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## Pyrex (Mar 31, 2004)

I've got 800 zombies and another 210 skeletal wolves with me.  I don't think your mirror room is quite that big.   

(but since your Forbiddance is NE my troops can spread into your fortress as necessary)


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## Tonguez (Mar 31, 2004)

Fieari said:
			
		

> *Trinkets sold by these merchants may be more telling*.  Clocks are one of the more common goods sold by them, as well as a large number of mechanical toys.  They say that the lands to the south have better things, but said better mechanical contrivances would not work in the north.  No further explanation is given.
> 
> The merchants ask in trade both gold and silver, as well as certain herbs that apparently only grow in the north.




Okay so the enemy 

1. Has Celestials!

2. Has Wizards and Scorcerers

3. Has Clockwork which imho = Automatons/Golems

and why do they want those herbs? 

*As for the Pack*

Its currently split the two leaders are Ravage the Bard and Raptor the Marshall (both lvl 10) the Bard is currently approaching the Dragons Lair to  recover the Dark Hunters and FireKings remains.

The Marshall is in the Grove (center of the Misylak forest) awaiting the return of the whole Pack and attempting to make contact with the other generals - via runners atm.

I'll probably use my 200 odd cr pts to recruit a few low level druids (level 3 gnomes probabaly) and maybe something bigger and nastier - anyone got a suggestion?

*Also Fieari can we use our CR to upgrade exisiting characters (eg if I gave my Marshall Lycanthorpy or something?) or perhaps a few custom super powers*


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## OldCrowe (Mar 31, 2004)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> Okay so the enemy
> 
> 1. Has Celestials!
> 
> ...




Judging by the 100 odd points of POSITIVE ENERGY damage delivered to Drakknyte, I would guess that they have a cleric active as well (sounds like a spontaneously cast HEAL to me, though the odd number of points seems a bit wierd, what spell does 114 points of PE damage???), this could explain some of the angels as well, Summon Monster and Planar Ally can pull some nice stuff.


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## Pyrex (Mar 31, 2004)

Heal couldn't have reduced his HP to less than 1.

My guess would be high-level Cha-monkey paladin using his Lay on Hands.
(ex: Lvl 13 paladin x +9 Cha mod = 117pts of Lay on Hands)

Given that LoH doesn't allow a save, this seems likely.


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## OldCrowe (Mar 31, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Heal couldn't have reduced his HP to less than 1.
> 
> My guess would be high-level Cha-monkey paladin using his Lay on Hands.




14th level Pally with a +8 Cha modifier could do 112 points of damage (This would imply a 14th level asimaar with a starting Cha of 17, cloak of charisma +6, and putting his 3 attribute boosts into CHA, nice, this guy will get +8 on all saves).

114 points is an odd number though (factors of 2 and 57), so it must have been a higher level Pally that pulled his punch abit, the above leveled up to a 17th level unequipped Asimaar Pally would have  136 points at his disposal...I would expect some round number damage like 100, 120, etc, certainly overkill on the 78hp Death Caller, and not enough to kill the 123hp Fire King. I guess how they decided 114 points will remain a mystery.


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## Pyrex (Mar 31, 2004)

It may be that he had used (or decided to hold in reserve) a few points to stabilize dying creatures.

Also keep in mind that they don't necessarily know exactly how many HP he had in either form and just blasted with pretty much however much power was available in hopes that it'd get him.

Anyhow, once you get Tonguez back in the game we'll see about moving my army somewhere useful and planning that raid.


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## Drakknyte32 (Apr 1, 2004)

hi folks.

I'm trying to come up with some new anti teleporting uberwizard strategies. If you have any please post, I think I'm a bit out of my depth.

So far I've come up with this:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------

Strike people inside homes. They can't teleport to you if they don't know where you are.

Strike from underground. My bite has a 10' reach. I could stay 5' underground and strike above me using my bite then use my 5' step to return underground on the same turn. Not to useful against a readied attack but good against a readied teleport.

Stay away from the wizards. I don't have much choice about this right now. I'm obviously severely outmatched both power and experience wise against these guys. I doubt they have protections on all those outlyign villages though.

Move with another army. If I stick with Pyrex's forces or someone elses they will have more to worry about than just me. The trouble is I move a lot faster than these forces and I can't fit through a mirror. 

Strike while they are distracted. If they are off fighting against some other opponent they might not notice if I attack their city.

Stay subtle. Strike at night while they are asleep. Use my less obvious attacks. Strike targets while they are alone so they can't raise an alarm. You could wipe out most of a city if you used this tactic properly.

------------------------------------------------------------------------

So. Comments, suggestions, reasons these won't work and are going to get me killed? Come on people I need help.


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## Pyrex (Apr 1, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> Strike people inside homes. They can't teleport to you if they don't know where you are.




Also works just fine if you hit smaller towns/villages.  One stretch of field looks like pretty much any other.



> Strike from underground. My bite has a 10' reach. I could stay 5' underground and strike above me using my bite then use my 5' step to return underground on the same turn. Not to useful against a readied attack but good against a readied teleport.




If you strike from underground using your reach your targets have full concealment.  (and it's hard to find targets)

You can't 5' step back underground if you've already moved up so you can see them.

What you need is the _Spring Attack_ feat.


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## Drakknyte32 (Apr 1, 2004)

I can still hear my targets underground (+22 listen). If a 50% miss chance is what I need to pay to remain safe I will gladly pay it. This will only be used when I know, or at least suspect, that powerful characters are nearby. Although right now I figure I'll just run if anyone strong actually shows up.

Spring attack or flyby attack would be useful but it's a bit late now. If I could remake my dragon a little I would probably change several things. Especially lowering his age catagory by one and adding a few levels of monk. Live and learn I guess.

So you can't use both move and 5' step. Pity. that makes things more difficult. I'll come up with something to overcome this.


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## The Goblin King (Apr 2, 2004)

Would I be at too much of a disadvantage if I took a level 18 Monk as my leader?  Is a big spellcaster pretty much required in a game like this?

I was thinking that if our armies ever do battle in the field he would be able to run around ignoreing the little guys and go straight for the generals. (kinda like in Dynasty Warriors)


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## Pyrex (Apr 2, 2004)

Hmm, monk should work pretty well.

The only problem is that in 3.5 _Freedom of Movement_ pretty much completely negates your ability to grapple.


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## OldCrowe (Apr 2, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Hmm, monk should work pretty well.
> 
> The only problem is that in 3.5 _Freedom of Movement_ pretty much completely negates your ability to grapple.




Monk's generally are a caster's worst nightmare, they have the touch AC, mobility, and saves to go toe to toe with casters.

You may want to include some kind of See Invisible Item, Good seems to be using it pretty extensively.

You might want to have a teleport item, Good doesn't seem to like to travel alone, and as Drakk has learned, lingering=death.

You might want a silence item, sneaking up on wizard and placing him in a zone of silence improves your chances of survivablity, and decreases his chances of casting teleport, natch, he will probably have a contingency in place though.

Personally, I would pick a Rogue/Assassin over Monk, with ALOT of cash, as you are going to need some very good stealth gear to get the drop on Good, and once you do, you aren't going to have alot rounds to take advantage of your attack, once Good zero's in on you, it seems they only need a round to put you to dirt.

I would make a Goblin Sniper, Rogue 5/Assassin10, with such items as Lens of True Seeing, Thieves Armor (+ to Hide and + to Sneak), a Ring of Mind Shield/Amulet of NonDetection, and a Helm of Teleportation. I would take all archery feats (Specifically, PB Shot, Far Shot, Precise Shot, Improved Precise Shot, and Improved Critical), and Buy the best poison you can afford, something nasty like Wyvren Poison or, if you can get your hands on it, Collossal Scorpion Venom (Possibly take one into your army and milk it for poison, Collosal are CR17's, so couldn't be taken, but Gargantuan Monstrous Scorpions are CR10, and would provide you with a source of DC23 1d10Con/1d10Con Poison).

Then just sit back with a +1 Keen Heavy Crossbow, and some Adamantine Bolts, Hiding and Greater Invis'd at a comfortable range of 240', and hit them with a Poison'd Bolt and TP out to safety. No, you aren't taking advantage of the assassin's death attack, or even your sneak attack, I suppose you could do it at 30', but it becomes alot more dangerous, the 240' attack can be done over and over again.

Some thoughts,

C. Rowe


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## OldCrowe (Apr 2, 2004)

*Looking for some advice on spy insertion*

Hey guys.

I have 4 Doppelgangers and a Rakshasha at my disposal for infiltration. I have found three branching roads, presumably leading to 3 cities, Mercitia, Lake Feather, and New Shore.

I would like to insert 3 Doppelgangers into enemy territory, one on each of these branches of the road, and have some on the ground intel as to who/what these lead to. Unfortunately, alot of problems arise since some of the things I was hoping to bring into my army didn't happen, and I completely misunderstood how Telepathic Bond is made permanent.

So what I am asking, is if anyone has any good ideas on inserting, communicating, and extracting said spies.

My plan for the moment, is to disguise them as Southern Merchants, drop them on an out of the way spot on the road, next to some geographic landmark, and turn them loose for a day or two to see what they can dig up, then have them return to the same spot, and extract/debrief them. This should work, but it is less than satisfying, I would prefer to leave them in for quite some time, and let them ingrain themselves, but I need the real time info. Unfortunately, I don't think it is worth 7,500 xp to permanently Telepathically bond all three of them.

Ideas? Suggestions?

Thanks,

C. Rowe


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## Serpenteye (Apr 2, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> hi folks.
> 
> Move with another army. If I stick with Pyrex's forces or someone elses they will have more to worry about than just me. The trouble is I move a lot faster than these forces and I can't fit through a mirror.




My character can greater Teleport at will, he should be able to take you pretty much anywhere. You would make an excellent complement to my Shadows, and they would be able to defend and support you.
 My main strategy will be to raid the enemy home-land, small towns and villages, with the intent to start a plague of Shadows in their lands. If my initial attacks suceed I'm soon going to have thousands of Shadows spreading like wildfire and killing everything in their path. Wether or not our enemies manage to find a cure I will have wounded them beyond their ability to recuperate. Our victory will be almost inevitable. Join with me and our chances will improve.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 2, 2004)

OldCrowe said:
			
		

> Ideas? Suggestions?




Dominate Person establishes a telepathic connection between the caster and the castee, a practical means of communication. If you can't cast the spell I will gladly do it for you, if Dopplers qualify as "persons".


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## Pyrex (Apr 2, 2004)

Why use a Xbow?  With a composite longbow (and possibly a level of Sorcerer for _True Strike_ he could do the same thing from 2000' away.


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## Pyrex (Apr 2, 2004)

Dopplegangers are not type: humanoid (they're 'monstrous humanoids') so you can't use _Dominate Person_, but _Sending_ works quite well for getting regular (if short) reports from them.


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## Drakknyte32 (Apr 2, 2004)

Crowe:
When I get back in the game I plan on traveling around the good lands destroying small villages. I could probably drop in on your spies if I'm in the area and destroy the villages nearby while they spy. Then I could meet up with them and relay to you through the bond. The trouble is I can only go so fast and I'll want to take time to destroy stuff on the way. A better way might be to make a deal with someone who can teleport at will. If you do decide to work with me I'll want some sort of compensation, I need to start getting some ghost touch equipment.

Serpenteye:
I thought about the greater teleport thing but there is one problem. I exist on the ethereal plane. If you could plane shift or ethereal jaunt as well your stratagy would work though. But do we really need two armies just to destroy defenseless villages?


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## Serpenteye (Apr 2, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> Crowe:
> Serpenteye:
> I thought about the greater teleport thing but there is one problem. I exist on the ethereal plane. If you could plane shift or ethereal jaunt as well your stratagy would work though. But do we really need two armies just to destroy defenseless villages?




Not for the villages, but perhaps for the towns. Our enemies will eventually adapt the our methods of warfare and develop a way to quickly detect any disturbance in their territory and then rapidly deploy their most powerful characters. In such a situation we're going to need to either make our raids so quick that they cannot possibly respond before we have already left or we have to ambush them with superior forces. There are limits to the number of Shadows I can teleport in a limited time.


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## Tonguez (Apr 2, 2004)

You only need to teleport the shadows in once and then leave - the shadows spawn more shadows and they do the fighting for you. and in a village of lv 1 commoners you wont need many shadows - so hit multiple villages at once with small shadow 'strike forces'...


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## Pyrex (Apr 2, 2004)

There's also a limit to the number of places they can be at the same time.  They can't watch everywhere at once.

Also after the first couple of raids, we _want_ them to deploy their powerful characters.

If we know where their generals are, we also know where they aren't.

If we can force them to react predictably, we can take them apart.

Edit: Serp, I'm positively drooling at the wild goose chase you're going to be able to lead them on. 
Step 1: Port.  Step 2: Boom.  Step 3: Repeat.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 2, 2004)

The only substantial risk in my plan is that some of my newly spawned Shadows will become fre-willed when their sires die. Those Shadows and their spawn could spread over the entire planet, attacking every living creature they encounter. My loyal Shadows (most likely a far greater number) will be powerless to stop them since Shadows are useless against other Undead.
 Our only recource might be to convert ourselves and our nation to undead first, and create an empire of the dead, eternal and all-powerful.


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## Tonguez (Apr 2, 2004)

I thought your character was the original sire - so its only a problem if your 'deaded' (or do shadows only go one generation?)

anyway back to me

If the Misylak forest is my *Fortress* - then what is allowed? I understand that the rest of you get a 'Town' and can spend $$ on protecting it.
What should I do in my forest? (Unhallow with an embedded Entangle and Forbiddence of course) 

Fieari can I assume that the Misylak is populated by wild animals, assasin vines, poison thorns and shambling mounds (or do they have to be 'bought'?), can I have a maze made from shaped wood and walls of thorns? What about a bog and quicksand? What traps, hazards and other obstacles occur naturally in the unhallowed twisted Misylak forest?


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## Pyrex (Apr 2, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> ...Those Shadows and their spawn could spread over the entire planet, attacking every living creature they encounter...




Still not seeing the downside to this plan.


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## Pyrex (Apr 2, 2004)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> If the Misylak forest is my *Fortress* - then what is allowed? I understand that the rest of you get a 'Town' and can spend $$ on protecting it.
> What should I do in my forest? (Unhallow with an embedded Entangle and Forbiddence of course)
> 
> Fieari can I assume that the Misylak is populated by wild animals, assasin vines, poison thorns and shambling mounds (or do they have to be 'bought'?), can I have a maze made from shaped wood and walls of thorns? What about a bog and quicksand? What traps, hazards and other obstacles occur naturally in the unhallowed twisted Misylak forest?




The rest of us are getting the basic structure of our fortress for free, so I would tend to think you could dictate geography.

Anything that fights back has to be paid for.  

IOW, you can build a hedge maze out of blackberry shrubs for free, but the assassin vines, shambling mounds the _Unhallow_ and the _Forbiddance_ have to be paid for.


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## Dalamar (Apr 2, 2004)

OldCrowe said:
			
		

> So what I am asking, is if anyone has any good ideas on inserting, communicating, and extracting said spies.



 What's the name of that ring that allows small items to be teleported through it to another ring keyed to it? That would be an excellent way for you to negotiate with them.


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## Pyrex (Apr 3, 2004)

Or _Scry_ them and cast _Message_


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## Pyrex (Apr 5, 2004)

The Lich-King said:
			
		

> _*---== The Forces of Light attempt to steal our people. ==---*_




Where have people been dissappearing from?  (our capitals or some of the smaller outlying towns?)

About how many people have dissappeared?

Crowe, if your general doesn't have the time to do it himself, I recommend dropping one of the hunt masters (with backup) to FK's cave to use his scrying pool and view some of the people who have dissappeared.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 5, 2004)

Perhaps a relocation program of our own would stop the problem. Split up families to different towns to make sure that whoever leaves also deserts a hostage. Make it known that the closest relatives of those who desert will take the punishment for the refugee so that even if they steal entire villages there will always be someone left to punish. 

I'm not even in the game yet, but that's what my character would do. If the problem continued he'd unleash his shadows on the poor bastards.


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## Drakknyte32 (Apr 6, 2004)

Fieari:

I've been thinking about this for a while and a ghost dragon, while undeniably cool and powerful, is not what I wanted for a general. Nor, as I have so well shown, is it something I'm capable of playing effectively. I was wondering if it would be alright if I got rid of him and made a new general with equipment instead. I  have an idea for a cl15 creature with 250,000gp of equipment that I believe I would be able to play better.

I'll understand if you say no but I thought it was worth asking.

Everyone else:

I'm still thinking of ways to beat those cursed wizards and I came up with this. A wizards main weakness is his short endurance. After using his spells up he pretty much unable to battle anymore. An intelligent wizard saves a contigency or teleport wo they can run away at this point. But what if they couldn't run away.

Right now I'm thinking of a massive strike/seige on LowGate. When I say massive though I mean *MASSIVE*. The majority of everyones troops pouring through the mirrors into the heart of the city, killing everything they come across. Obviously they will move quickly to counter this but if done properly it will be one army against many. Even if the the others move to join the wizards it will take time to gate all their forces their. If we move quickly we could get entrenched before this and put up major resistance. If things go absolutely horrible we leave the weaker troops as cannon fodder and gate the higher level troops out. The wizard's player is obviously an experienced D&D gamer but your average D&D game doesn't send thousands of troops of varying levels and abilities at two wizards.

Another Idea is to strike at the wizards other weakness, the need to prepare. Under the cover of night, slip several low level rogues with poisoned arrows into the tower with the mirror. Strike the wizards while they are asleep and make them take a ton of CON damage. 

One final idea is a war of attrition. Send a group of shadows into the city and have them spread out and attack civilians. The wizards can deal with a single ghost but how will they do against several dozen? If this doesn't work they can just go underground and fly away.

If you like any of these ideas feel free to implement them, although I don't recommend the seige unless we can get everyone in on it. I'll help if I'm able but I'm lacking in troops right now. If someone is willing to supply the poison and mirror I will make the rogues for the sneak attack though.


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## Drakknyte32 (Apr 6, 2004)

Serpenteye

Your idea is absolutely twisted. And I like it  .


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## Pyrex (Apr 6, 2004)

Drakknyte32 said:
			
		

> I'm still thinking of ways to beat those cursed wizards and I came up with this. A wizards main weakness is his short endurance. After using his spells up he pretty much unable to battle anymore. An intelligent wizard saves a contigency or teleport wo they can run away at this point. But what if they couldn't run away.




That's why I was proposing timed raids every 4-6 hours.  If we can get them to deplete their spells and prevent them from resting long enough to recover them we have a significant advantage.

On that note, Crowe, Serp, can either of your generals (hopefully both) cast _Nightmare_?



> Right now I'm thinking of a massive strike/seige on LowGate. When I say massive though I mean *MASSIVE*. The majority of everyones troops pouring through the mirrors into the heart of the city,




Currently we only have access to one mirror, we can't move enough troops through it fast enough for this type of massive suprise attack.  Also, if they land a _Dimensional Lock_ around the mirror any troops that have already gone through are stranded without reinforcements until we can refocus the mirror.




> ...but if done properly it will be one army against many...




It's not just the wizards and their army.  We know there is at least one army of celestials already in the city.  Mabye two.



> ...slip several low level rogues with poisoned arrows into the tower with the mirror...




Not a bad idea, but if the tower is protected by a _Forbiddance_ it won't work.

I think what we need to do is force the wizards to leave their tower and walk into an ambush.




> Send a group of shadows into the city and have them spread out and attack civilians.




Once we get a raid or two underway I've already got something like this planned.    (and once he starts I belive Serp was thinking along those lines as well)


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## Dalamar (Apr 6, 2004)

Ghalarasser can keep Greater Teleporting four people at a time for these task forces, and I think his Ethereal Marauder rogues should be quite effective with the tactic.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 6, 2004)

I can cast Nightmare 1/day, and that might take out one of the enemy wizards, at least until they take steps to protect themselves. I was planning on sending my shadows to smaller towns first, where their casualty-rate would be lower, but I should be able to commit a couple of hundred shadows to an attack on day 2 or 3 after I enter the game.


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## Pyrex (Apr 6, 2004)

You might want to check with Fieari on that Dalamar, the outsiders with Teleport in the MM usually can't take other people with them.


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## OldCrowe (Apr 6, 2004)

I have access to Nightmare, using it is another story, I need a name at the least, and the more I can identify with the target (picture, possession, body part, meeting with the target, knowing the target well), the better, as it is a Will Save, and it is best to get as many minus's on them as possible. I am intending to save this til later in the game, after I can _Legend Lore_ people at will, but that is two levels away.

Using the scry pool might be a good idea, of course the wizard may choose to scry this location from time to time as it is known to him. I agree that there is some threat that we aren't aware of, maybe I should have my cleric _Commune_ to determine more on this, also, the comment that forces are moving "manually" on both sides seems to indicate that we are being infiltrated.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 6, 2004)

*Fierari*, who's next in line for playing? Are there any Good armies about to be finished, or already waiting in line?
I want to play, but the waiting is killing me.


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## Tonguez (Apr 8, 2004)

Hey guys please check my new creature in the Rogues gallery thread. Its inspired by the Wild Hunt and suppose to be what happens to the manifest evil of the Dark Hunter slain whilst in whirlwind form..... 

Imagine the image of a huge thunderstorm gathering on the edge of the battlefield, lightning dances across its billowing face, howling winds drive everything before it as  it rushes forward striking fear into the hearts of the enemy and bringing the savage hunters of The Pack with it to feed. But most terrible of all, the souls of those so slain rise up dark and twisted to join the endless hunt...


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## Serpenteye (Apr 8, 2004)

Looks nice. I would recommend giving it a longer range and the feat Whirlwind Attack. Perhaps Haste as a spell-like ability so that it can move and whirlwind attack in the same round. You could drop Dodge and lower Wisdom and Charisma to pay for it, since the Storm is practically mindless it has little use for the other mental stats.


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## Pyrex (Apr 28, 2004)

Serp, now that we've made camp, would your general mind whipping us up some fortifications?  Tiered & staggered 5' _Walls of Stone_ should slow down their ground troops giving the archers time to soften them up.  I was thinking of something kind of like this...


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## Serpenteye (Apr 28, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> Serp, now that we've made camp, would your general mind whipping us up some fortifications?  Tiered & staggered 5' _Walls of Stone_ should slow down their ground troops giving the archers time to soften them up.  I was thinking of something kind of like this...




Okie, as soon as I've deployed my Shadows I'll give you a hand with the camp. I believe we would be better served by spreading out quite a bit, otherwise enemy spellcasters could easily vaporize us, but it's your army and your choice.


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## Pyrex (Apr 28, 2004)

That's just kind of a representitive idea.  Each of those squares should be at least 50'.  

Depending on how much wall you want to build, we could easily spread out a bit and make them 100' squares.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 28, 2004)

Would the camp be open to the South or the North? I'm guessing South, to give us an easy access to the enemy while protecting our flanks. perhaps I could put down a handful of small towers across the opening to give cover to groups of your archers?


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## Pyrex (Apr 28, 2004)

My idea was to leave it open to the north.  That way when the opposing ground troops come at us they have to go either through or around the walls, giving the archers/wizards plenty of time to rain arrows/spells down on them.

Most of my troops (and those of yours that are staying behind) don't need easy access to the enemy, they need time to pummel the enemy from range.

A couple of towers (what do you think, 20' high or so?) could still be interesting though.


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## Serpenteye (Apr 28, 2004)

Ok, I'll do that.

I've had a second look at the Simulacrum spell, and it turns out that my character/2 would be pretty useless. He can't even use most of his SLA's with a caster level of 7. I might scrap the ability when I remake the character before the re-start.


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## Pyrex (Apr 28, 2004)

So make copies of something else.  Like dragons.  Or demons.  Or...


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## Serpenteye (Apr 28, 2004)

Pyrex said:
			
		

> So make copies of something else.  Like dragons.  Or demons.  Or...




I don't have any... But maybe I could summon a few with Planar Binding. Some simulacra of a shadow conjured Glabrezu could be quite effective.   

Tongues, what do you think? Is it possible to create simulacrums of creatures created with Greater Shadow Conjuration?


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