# The Illusionists Guide to Reality



## Helzod (Aug 7, 2018)

*The Illusionists Guide to Reality: A Definitive Guide to Making Effective Use of Illusion Spells Such as Minor Illusion, Silent Image, and Major Image for Players and Dungeon Masters in D&D 5E. *


Clarification is needed in the area of illusions for many players which this guide seeks to impart. 

D&D is a game that inspires creativity. Helping that creativity to grow will enhance your story. No one will remember the 200th fireball, but letting that illusory orc guard pass as a real guard will increase the suspense of the story, give everyone something to talk about, and let the story play out in wonderful ways. Don't be a “No DM.” Become an enabler for your players. Both DMs and players must work together to get the most out of the experience. 

Illusions are incredibly versatile, very open ended, and limited only by your imagination. Create a new reality through the use of Illusion spells. In many cases an illusion of something plays out the same as if it was the real thing. No one jumps in a pit, neither do they jump in an illusion of a pit.

The minimum benefit of any spell has to be weighed against the resource cost. Players, If your DM doesn't appreciate creativity and won't work with you, you just wasted a slot. It sucks the fun out of the game when you try to do something cool and get shut down. If your DM just wants to roll dice you are better off throwing a fireball than planning an elaborate illusion no matter how well crafted it may be. Likewise, DMs, if your players rinse and repeat the same tactics prod them by asking them for more details. You want them to succeed in interesting ways. They used a limited daily resource, even if it wasn't what you were planning to happen or what you wanted them to do practice your improv storytelling skills and run with it. 

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Illusion Spell Summary*


Minor IllusionImproved Minor IllusionSilent ImageSilent Image with Minor IllusionMajor ImageVolume5’ cube5’ cube15’ cube15’ cube20’ cubeDuration1 minute1 minuteConcentration, up to 10 minutesConcentration, up to 10 minutesConcentration, up to 10 minutesSensesAudio or Visual Static ImageAudio and Visual Static ImageVisual only moving imagesUse Silent Image for Visuals and Minor Illusion for Audio.Takes two actions to set up.Audio, Visual, Smell, Temperature


An illusionist will have access to Improved Minor Illusion which imparts the ability to add sound and visuals simultaneously to their Minor Illusions. Later on they will be able to use the Malleable Illusion ability to even allow their Minor Illusions to move. 
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Role With It, No Roll Required*

How should a DM interpret these spells? Just Role With It! Player creativity makes things exciting! D&D is a collaborative storytelling experience. Enhance the group’s fun. Go with the Rule of Cool. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWZDuFIYkf0

Consider the intelligence of the target but don't overthink it. Zombies with rotten cabbage for brains should not stop to question if that wall of flame is actually giving off heat or not. Likewise if an animal sees a predator it should flee without stopping to smell it and confirm it's real. No roll required. 

Even intelligent creatures should not question unless given a reason to. When was the last time you stopped to investigate your coworker to ensure they aren't real or stopped to stare at that wall in the hallway? We don't do those things and neither should your characters unless they have a real good reason to. No roll required. 

If a goblin sees a pool of acid suddenly bubble up through the ground wilting any vegetation and dissolving twigs. A wizard did it. It's really acid. It's not going to stick a toe in what is obviously acid. No roll required. The illusion is as good as the real thing for area denial. 

In the heat of battle if one more hero steps through a portal to join the fight does the enemy stop and investigate their appearance? No, they move to attack. No roll required.

What would give a creature a reason to become suspicious of an illusion and investigate?
-You leave no other choice than to interact with the illusion, such as placing a box around a creature. 
-Physical interaction is guaranteed, for example: Snow is hitting the wall everywhere except for the area of the illusion.
-Inside a monster’s lair, if you do something blatantly obvious like create a barrel to hide inside. This is familiar ground to that monster and they know there wasn't a barrel there yesterday. This may cause them to investigate the barrel!

None of these examples require a charisma roll! Read the spell descriptions, if a creature doubts an illusion they must successfully investigate against your spell save DC. 

Deception (charisma) rolls are not appropriate for wizards to make. Ever. Wizard magic has nothing to do with your charisma. When a wizard casts a spell he is not using his own force of personality, or personal presence like a sorcerer. A wizard’s power is academic. Deception (intelligence) is more reasonable but still not the best option. If your table is not in the habit of using variant stats for skills introduce them to PHB page 175.

The only roll that should take place should be what is called for in the actual spell. That is your spell save DC. Any roll should involve your spell casting ability. Everyone is proficient in their own spellcasting. Proficiency bonuses are built in to your spell save DC. Otherwise a level 20 arch wizard making an illusion is no different than an apprentice. 

Calling for rolls when none are required is robbing players of creative agency, and short changing your game. Forcing interaction with the illusion in unnatural ways is just as bad as ignoring it.
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Facilitate a cooperative experience *

Illusion spells give players a sense of agency. It creates a more dynamic time around the table. Even if you are running a railroad module there is room for players to feel like they have some control over their journey in how the encounters unfold.

Your player’s wizard used a spell slot, a precious limited resource at low levels. Even if they froze on the hot seat give them a bone and ask for some more details to help them flesh out their illusion. The DM is the one who knows the environment the best, so share with the caster some details. If there are bits of debris on the floor where their acid pit is going to be placed ask them if they will slowly dissolve in the acid or go up in wisps of smoke. Denying any benefit at all may make them never cast that spell again and stunt the game excitement.
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Controversy*

There have been arguments that the creature saw you cast the illusion and now knows it is an illusion. It does not matter. Was it a wizard that saw who passed an arcana check (Xanathars p85)? Because anyone else just saw your character do magic. They can’t tell the difference between the major image spell and the summon fire breathing T-Rex through a dimensional rift in spacetime spell . Even if that enemy wizard identified the spell you cast he still sees the illusion until he makes an investigation check, or sees physical interaction. This would just give him a reason to investigate.

A controversial point with illusions is how to handle the occasion when a creature wants to attack an illusion. There are no published rules to deal with this instance. However just because there are no rules to hit an illusion doesn’t turn an attack into an automatic hit or an automatic miss. Players and DMs should talk about how to handle it before hand. There are options out there and an ideal solution should appease both parties. Including the spellcasters proficiency into your method will ensure the illusionist gets better over time.
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Communicate the goal*

Disappointment will arise from differing viewpoints on what an illusion is meant to accomplish. With that in mind when you are a player casting an illusion try prefacing your illusion with what you are trying to do and why it would work.This is helpful advice to prevent a disconnect between your vision and the other person’s vision.

The following are examples designed to reduce miscommunication.

“I am creating this acid pit to create a chokepoint. This should work because we are in combat and the monsters are too busy to investigate the illusion.”
“I am trying to scare off the reinforcements. This should work because any sane creature is scared of the sound of a dragon roar.”
“I am trying to block the path to our spellcasters. This should work because even a kindergartener could fool the undead.”

Likewise a DM can ask what the player’s goal is and determine if its reasonable.

“So why are you creating an illusion of a chest of gold in front of the thieves guild?”
“Are you trying to pull a Bugs Bunny in a dress type of scenario on those lonely outpost guards?”
“Are you expecting these fiends to be afraid of your illusory paladin or chase after him?”
*

What can you do with a DM who refuses to be open to illusions?*

Why are they even playing D&D? They may get more satisfaction out of playing a video game or reading a book. A better question is why are you still playing with them! This kind of antagonism can’t make a good game.

Still you can use Minor Illusion to block sight. Mechanically opponents get disadvantage on the attack when they can’t see their target. A creature can believe its an illusion all it wants, they either swing through an illusory box around their target taking disadvantage on the attack and then discover it was an illusion through the interaction or waste a turn investigating it.

Throw an illusion of a firebolt against an enemy. Ask if the creature doesn't believe it is an illusion and doesn't make any effort to dodge or get out of the way does that mean I don't have to roll to hit anymore it will just believe all my regular firebolts are imaginary until it dies from disbelief?

Ultimately those are poor options and a better one would be to talk to the DM or find a new game.
*

Phantasmal Force*

Phantasmal Force deserves its own section because it is different than the Minor Illusion/Silent Image/Major Image line of illusion spells and people have misconceptions about it that need to be cleared up. Details can be found by reading the spell description in full.

Phantasmal Force has a range of 60 feet and the phantasm must fit in a 10 foot cube. But the phantasm is entirely in the mind of the target. What this means is the target must be within 60 feet of the spellcaster to initially cast. Either the target and caster are then free to move outside that range. When the target moves the phantasm moves with it. Remember the phantasm is in the mind of the target and they cannot get away from it outside of a lobotomy. 

As per the spell description the target of Phantasmal Force rationalizes any illogical outcomes from physically interacting with the phantasm. That means it will not attempt an investigation check against your spell save DC until it has an outside reason to suspect it is seeing a phantasm such as an ally shouting, “Stop walking off the cliff, you are seeing things!” This is a very powerful effect.
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Conclusion*

Convert your players or DM to be in favor of illusions. Send them to this document. Illusions spells can enhance your story in unexpected ways and help players feel invested in their world by creating something that affects the world they play in. In the end, creating zany schemes with illusions is a lot of fun!  





*Illusion Questions Answered by Sage Advice:*

Dragon Talk: Sage Advice on Illusions
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6l51s0GFflY
23:40 Jeremy Crawford says any status affects could be applied by Phantasmal Force by the DM’s call.
24:00 Be generous toward cleverness, allow the player to place a condition. Reward creative play. Facilitate them and say yes yes yes.
30:30 In the middle of combat illusions are more likely to be overlooked.
35:15 Don't obstruct adventurers progress, make it interesting.
37:30 What does an illusion look like to the spellcaster? The spellcaster also sees their illusion, but knows it is an illusion so you still see it but in a spectral way or an overlay on the real world so it is not obstructing your vision.
41:00 Do illusions cast shadows? Yes, except Minor Illusion.
42:00 Can you create a mirror with minor illusion? Yes, but the image in the mirror couldn't move. As soon as you walked in front of the mirror you would realize the reflection did not match reality. Use an illusion spell where the image moves instead.
51:10 If one person in the group spots an illusion and tells everyone else, the others still don't know automatically it is an illusion. Each person must observe physical interaction or make the check themselves. Also from https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/07/15/unbelievable-illusion/


Minor illusion does not create a moving illusion like a water fountain, everything else can.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/04/09/minor-illusion-silent-image-major-image-can-you-create-the-illusion-of-a-flowing-fountain/

Improved Minor Illusion can have moving parts like a ticking clock.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/08/05/can-improved-minor-illusion-create-an-illusion-of-a-ticking-clock-with-moving-hands/

Minor Illusion can be used to create speech.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/03/21/minor-illusion-to-duplicate-complex-sounds/

Minor Illusion is not for atmospheric effects like fog.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2015/10/15/could-minor-illusion-create-a-fog-cloud/

A creature can drown in an illusionary lake using Mirage Arcane.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/06/03/if-i-used-mirage-arcane-to-transform-a-lake-of-water-into-a-lake-of-lava/

Mirage Arcane can create a tower you can stand on.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/04/12/could-i-stand-at-the-top-of-an-illusory-tower/

Phantasmal Force exists in the target’s mind
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/08/11/phantasmal-killer-where-is-it-the-illusion-fear/

Spells can target other things than just creatures
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2018/01/03/spell-that-targets-creatures-cast-against-a-goblin-but-goblin-is-illusion-spellslot-wasted/

Detect Magic does not show an aura around an illusion, but you can sense the magic.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/04/08/would-detect-magic-show-an-aura-around-an-illusion/

Illusory Reality can deal indirect damage based on DMG spell creation guidelines if you get creative.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/12/21/can-ilusory-reality-deal-indirect-damage/

An illusory wall can give a cover bonus to AC until an arrow passes through it and it's obvious it was an illusion.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2017/04/19/does-illusory-wall-give-cover-bonus-to-ac/

An illusion can allow an ally to be hidden but still see through it.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/06/28/silent-image-if-i-make-a-solid-boulder-on-my-teammate-can-see-out-but-still-be-hidden/

A person that makes their save against a spell such as Phantasmal Force would not notice they were targeted with the spell.
https://www.sageadvice.eu/2016/01/07/what-type-of-spells-alert-people/


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## Helzod (Aug 7, 2018)

*A compilation of Illusionist Tips, Tricks, and Ideas.*


General tips:
Limit physical interaction with illusions by creating things targets don't want to touch (pools of acid, poisonous clouds), or are out of reach (a flying ghost) or are unable to be interacted with (voices). The less chance of physical interaction the better the illusion stands up.

Push your creativity with illusions. Do it with style. How does that lake of lava get there? Does it seep up from the ground, erupt out of your wand, or get delivered in buckets by butlers? If you can't think of something on the spot, think back on the session and what might have worked and try it next time.

*What are you trying to accomplish with the illusion? *

*Create a Choke Point / Area Denial *

Minor Illusion: make a 5’ round pool of acid, or rusty bear traps appear. 
Silent Image: Stone walls or lava pits to funnel creatures down a hallway.
Silent Image: A pool of bubbling green acid. 
Silent Image: Lovecraftian tentacles coming from a whirlpool in space discourage any from going near. A giant eye can be seen far off beyond the portal.
Silent Image: A swirling portal into the depths of outer space opens, the black stillness of the void sucks in loose stones on the ground.
Major Image: The earth splits apart. Clouds of acrid smoke, hellish flames and the smell of brimstone pour out of it as the heat of lava can be felt coming from below.
Major Illusion: A portal to the underworld rips open the ground blocking the enemy and a fire breathing dracolich claws itself out of the hole.
Silent Image: Block a doorway with a sleeping dangerous animal.
Silent Image: A sink hole just swallowed up that teleportation circle the evil wizard was running for. 
Major Image: Drop an egg on the ground, watch it hatch and grow until a fire breathing dragon grows to fill the space, threatening any nearby.

*Crowd Control / Split Larger Groups*

Silent Image: Keep that boss occupied by setting his living quarters/workshop on fire.
Silent Image: Run a mounted paladin through the battle only for him to disappear into the trees (or around a bend) to split off a few enemies from the main combat for a few rounds.
Silent Image: Pumping poison gas out of the sleeves of your robe to form a cloud or having lakes of lava rise up are good for making creatures go around the long way.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory): Shouts from the enemy commander of “Everyone retreat!”

*Start fights / Provoke Attacks*

Minor Illusion: (Auditory) on lookouts, guards, drunk tavern patrons and enemies to make it seem like they're insulting each other and provoke a fight. 
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) accusations of theft/horrible body odor/infidelity to provoke a fight in order to create a distraction or just for crowd control.
Minor illusion: (Auditory) the sound of a sword being drawn amongst a mob.
Minor Illusion: Create cheating playing cards half revealed in someone's shirt pocket or up their sleeve while gambling.
Improved Minor Illusion: Thwack! An arrow appears embedded in a tree. “That guy just tried to shoot you, go get him!”
Minor Illusion: Scarecrow bowman to eat up archers long distance attacks. 
Minor Illusion: Sapper heads poking up through the ground outside of a castle may force them to come outside the walls. 
Silent Image: Trigger an enemy ambush with an adventurer casually walking into harm's way. 

*Lure Someone To or Away From You.*

Minor Illusion: Bait for a trap, fresh meat for animals, gold coins for humanoids, a bucket of brains for zombies. 
Minor Illusion: The classic stuffed bedroll to lure enemies to attack the sleeping hero.
Minor Illusion: Muddy footprints leading away from a party or to a player ambush.
Minor illusion: A puddle with boot prints leading down a different corridor. Bonus points for the addition of the sound of panting breath and heavy footsteps running down that corridor to attract attention down a misleading path.
Minor Illusion: A blood trail leading one monster toward another monster’s lair.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) A woman calling for help to lure city guards away.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) A goblin screaming to attract other goblins out of their stronghold.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Calls for help to get the guards to open a door, while you remain hidden.
Major Illusion: Indiana Jones style boulder comes rolling down the hall to force enemies to run.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Cries of “Run for your lives!” Followed by the beating of wings and the roar of a dragon.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) The charging hooves of cavalry reinforcements.

*Dodge Pursuit.*

Minor Illusion: Drop a bag of gold as a distraction while fleeing. Include the sound of coins for extra realism.
Minor Illusion: Make the door you just ran thru look like a wall to discourage pursuit.
Silent Image: Being chased down alleyways? Make an illusion of your party run through an illusory doorway placed on a wall and watch enemies run into a wall Wile E Coyote style.
Silent Image: Position your own lifeless body below a window/at the bottom of a cliff while you sneak away.
Minor Illusion: Dead termites cover a section of rotten wooden boards on that rope bridge.
Major Illusion: Chunks of rock fall from that stone bridge and it begins to fall apart.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Cries of "He went this way!” from the opposite direction.
Silent Image: Hide the party behind an illusory wall/hedge.


*Discourage attacks.*

Minor Illusion: A circle of pikes around you in the ground.
Silent Image: A dozen swords fly through the air circling around you.
Minor Illusion: Create walls in front of arrow slits to block archers vision.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) An orc lookout calling out “All quiet” after you just killed him. 
Silent Image: Unexpected allies / town guards arriving may stop a fight before it starts. 
Silent Image: A hill giant stands watch over you and gives a menacing glare to any who approach.

*Social Deception *

Major Image: Fake guard escorting the party in chains.
Silent Image: Unconscious guards can be replaced with illusory ones standing at their posts.
Minor illusion: (Auditory) Shout orders with the enemy commander's voice. 

*Cause Mischief. *

Silent Image: Frame someone to turn public opinion. A facsimile of the villain noble gets caught red handed and flees. Bonus if the law puts a bounty up for them you can collect. 
Minor Illusion: Create a wanted poster of whoever you owe a favor to.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Someone else confesses to a crime. Did you take a few items from those catacombs the priests sent you to sweep for undead? No problem. 
Minor Illusion: Create false evidence. The queen’s ring on the finger of her advisor.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Put words in people's mouths: “The princess looks fat” in the throne room.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Make someone look a fool while grandstanding. When your virtuous knight goes on and on about chivalry, finish his speech with: “I put a banana in my pants before I go out for the night.”
Silent Image: Cut the bridge over a lava pool, replace it with an illusion of one.
Minor Illusion: Switch the directions on signposts or the sign on the shops around town. 
Minor Illusion: Creating duplicates of quest items can either get you extra rewards or killed.
Minor Illusion: Scare people out of an area by faking a haunting with ghostly faces and wailing. 
Minor Illusion: Replace the stolen artifact with a replica to give you a head start on running. 

*Get an Advantage on Ability Checks. *

Minor Illusion: Give your weapon an aura while intimidating a captive. 
Minor illusion: Provide backup vocals and a beat to a performance. 

*Get a Better Deal on Prices*

Minor Illusion: Rust on a weapon you are buying.
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) shouts of “Cheat! Swindler!” around someone trying to bargain. 
Minor Illusion: Create a gold skin around copper coins to pay a bribe/toll. 
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Enhance sales at an auction with calls of exclamations and gasping at how valuable your item must be!

*Add flavor to a character. *

Minor Illusion: Grow a long white beard while waiting for someone to finish their turn.  
Minor Illusion: Create a sign at the dungeon entrance "this way to horrible death" or anything out of Looney Toons. 
Silent Image: Show the monsters you fought as you tell the tale around the campfire. 
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) Chicken clucking comes out of the player who doesn't want to go in the cave. 
Minor Illusion: To the pious pally serving in his temple: “Your latest issue of Girls Gone Feywild has arrived.”
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) applause when you fail that acrobatics check. 
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) wa-wah when you fumble. 
Minor Illusion: A 1UP mushroom appears when you get a revive. 
Minor Illusion: (Auditory) level up sound effects
Various Illusions: Raise your reputation by having people compliment you and thanking you around town.


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## Helzod (Aug 7, 2018)

Please let me know if you spot any typos


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## Treantmonklvl20 (Aug 7, 2018)

This will be very handy for when I'm brainstorming illusion ideas.  Thanks for this!


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## Helzod (Aug 7, 2018)

Im glad it was useful. Thank you for your wizard guides too. I have been using them for years.


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## Coroc (Aug 8, 2018)

How is your ruling about the illusionary box around the only light source in a room? Do you get the benefit of a darkness spell with a minor illusion cantrip?


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## Pauper (Aug 8, 2018)

This belongs in the CharOp forum.

Thanks,

--
Pauper


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## Helzod (Aug 9, 2018)

Thanks for the question.

It doesn't take a darkness spell to shut down the only light in a room. Minor Illusion could put a box around it until it was proven to be an illusion, but other cantrips can do it more effectively. Prestidigitation will snuff out a flame, as will Control Flames. Anyone can "extinguish a small flame" as part of interacting with objects (PHB p190) too without the use of magic.

If the question involved an object that had the light cantrip cast on it, the light cantrip says "Completely covering the object with something opaque blocks the light." Illusions are opaque until discovered.


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## gyor (Aug 9, 2018)

You should toss in illusion spells like Summon Steed,  Illusionary Dragon, and Seeming.

 Seeming is not a concentration spell,  so it can be cast when using an illusion like minor illusion. It's a great battle field control spell oddly,  as you and disguise your allies and make your enemies look like or allies and other weird stuff. No limit other the range to the number of targets. 

 Phantom steeds always have the stats of a horse,  but can look like whatever you want,  and is not a concentration spell,  but it is a, ritual. Weird side not,  being a beast is part of the horse stay blocks,  which means an Illusionary Steed is a beast as well mechanically,  so you can cast awaken upon it. 

 illusionary Dragon is mostly combat related,  but if you have some Phantom Steeds that look like dragons mixed it,  you can cause some fun confusion to your enemies. 

 Both Illusionists and Sorcerers have fun ways to manipulate illusions. Necromancer benefit hugely from Seeming to hide their unread.


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## Lanefan (Aug 9, 2018)

Note to the OP: very hard in posts 1 and 2 to read the black writing on a black background for those of us using the legacy skin.


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## Ovinomancer (Aug 9, 2018)

Helzod said:


> Thanks for the question.
> 
> It doesn't take a darkness spell to shut down the only light in a room. Minor Illusion could put a box around it until it was proven to be an illusion, but other cantrips can do it more effectively. Prestidigitation will snuff out a flame, as will Control Flames. Anyone can "extinguish a small flame" as part of interacting with objects (PHB p190) too without the use of magic.
> 
> If the question involved an object that had the light cantrip cast on it, the light cantrip says "Completely covering the object with something opaque blocks the light." Illusions are opaque until discovered.




Strong disagree.

Illusions cannot block anything (unless specifically noted).  They have no physical reality.  The notion that an illusion is enough present to block light but nothing else is special pleading.

Putting an illusionary box over a light cantrip my disguise easy identification of the source, but won't stop the light from illuminating 40' of the area.

My general rule of thumb us that an illusion can add to a scene, but cannot subtract ir otherwise alter it.  This prevents oddities like illusions throwing a room into darkness because the light sorce has an image of a box around it.  There's already a spell for that.

As a house rule, I've also tossed the whole "if you save you see through it as if it's not there" crud to avoid cheap illusionary one- way mirror tricks.  You can recognize the illusion, but you still see it. Still makes illusion excellently useful and flavorful but cuts down on cheese uses that aren't that fun.


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## Gadget (Aug 9, 2018)

Some very good points; I especially agree with the advice on getting to what the player is trying to accomplish to overcome communication issues, that is key.  However, I would be careful to read the limitations of the spells in question; I've too often seen people try to get more out of a spell than it offers: like trying to create a swarm of bees or such with a minor illusion spell.  I also strongly agree with [MENTION=16814]Ovinomancer[/MENTION] above that, for the most part (like the lower level spells), illusions do not change the lighting conditions, becoming a poor man's light/darkness spells.  Nor are they a stationary, in place Improved Invisibility.  You have other spells for that.  

And while I agree that in the 'heat of battle' close scrutiny should not be enforced, things like a pool of acid could be hard to determine when it does not bubble, smoke, or eat away at the surrounding area (Minor Illusion).  Without these visual and auditory clues, it is just a pool of unidentified liquid that does not move or flow like liquid usually does.  Furthermore, many animals and beasts rely on senses other than sight, so things like meat to bait a trap would be a hard sell without the scent to go along with it, though I would still allow for 'heat of battle' type uses as a distraction and such.  

One thing that does come up with illusions now and again is the whole 'stationary' requirement.  Does that mean I can't put the image of the Baron's house on my cloak, due to the fact that the image would remain in place when I or my cloak moved?  Does this prevent me from having an illusory ring on my (or someone else's) finger unless the finger remains stationary?  This becomes more intriguing with a permanent Major Image and the Malleable Illusions class feature.  I could have  half a dozen illusory rings on my fingers that I can change to whatever illusion I desire (within the spell's parameters) when needed.


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## Otterscrubber (Aug 9, 2018)

Great suggestions here, Illusions are amazing if used properly and this here was some proper advice on the topic!


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## Lanefan (Aug 9, 2018)

Ovinomancer said:


> Strong disagree.
> 
> Illusions cannot block anything (unless specifically noted).  They have no physical reality.  The notion that an illusion is enough present to block light but nothing else is special pleading.
> 
> Putting an illusionary box over a light cantrip my disguise easy identification of the source, but won't stop the light from illuminating 40' of the area.



Can't a part of the illusion be a lack of light elsewhere in the room?

If an illusion can generate light in the view of those who believe it (e.g. someone casting an illusion replicating said 'light' cantrip) then by the same logic it can "block" light simply by having part of the illusion's effect make it appear that there is less light.  That's awkwardly put, so let me try again: if an illusion of a person, say, can include whatever shadow that person would normally cast (and a wise illusionist would include this to help with believability) then that opens the door for an illusion appearing to block light.  Expand that such that a small part of an illusion is a box around a light and most of the illusion is the "shadow" that box casts and voila: the light goes out.



> My general rule of thumb us that an illusion can add to a scene, but cannot subtract ir otherwise alter it.



So an illusionist in your game could not, on hearing intruders approach, cast an illusion to make her laboratory look like an empty room?



> As a house rule, I've also tossed the whole "if you save you see through it as if it's not there" crud to avoid cheap illusionary one- way mirror tricks.  You can recognize the illusion, but you still see it. Still makes illusion excellently useful and flavorful but cuts down on cheese uses that aren't that fun.



Why is that not fun?  It's one of the best uses for illusions!  Never mind the caster always has to be able to see through her own illusion if only so she can have it react properly to things behind it...

Lanefan


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## Ovinomancer (Aug 9, 2018)

Lanefan said:


> Can't a part of the illusion be a lack of light elsewhere in the room?
> 
> If an illusion can generate light in the view of those who believe it (e.g. someone casting an illusion replicating said 'light' cantrip) then by the same logic it can "block" light simply by having part of the illusion's effect make it appear that there is less light.  That's awkwardly put, so let me try again: if an illusion of a person, say, can include whatever shadow that person would normally cast (and a wise illusionist would include this to help with believability) then that opens the door for an illusion appearing to block light.  Expand that such that a small part of an illusion is a box around a light and most of the illusion is the "shadow" that box casts and voila: the light goes out.



Illusions cannot illuminate.  An image of a shadow is not a real shadow.


> So an illusionist in your game could not, on hearing intruders approach, cast an illusion to make her laboratory look like an empty room?



Well, area of effect solves that for all but a small room.  You could certainly put an image of an empty room in the doorway, but that will fail if anyone enters.  But, no, you could not effectively make everything in the room invisible.  Add, as in the image in the doorway, not subtract.


> Why is that not fun?  It's one of the best uses for illusions!  Never mind the caster always has to be able to see through her own illusion if only so she can have it react properly to things behind it...
> 
> Lanefan




Nah, it's cheese.  Either an illusion is an image or it isn't.  Not being able to cheese the two-way wall doesn't reduce the creativity and usefulness of illusions.  I love illusions.  Not a fan of cheese.


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## Gadget (Aug 9, 2018)

Lanefan said:


> So an illusionist in your game could not, on hearing intruders approach, cast an illusion to make her laboratory look like an empty room?
> Lanefan




I'm not Ovinomancer, but I think it would depend on: what spell she was using and what is meant by 'empty room.'  If she just wants to avoid discovery by the intruders she could make a cabinet or wardrobe around herself standing or sitting in a corner, have an illusory wall angle just so around her, etc.  This could be conceivably covered by any of the minor, silent or major images (though she would have to take the duration into account).  If she wanted to disguise that there was anything in the room at all (i.e. all the books, tables, cabinets, beakers, cauldron, shelves, etc.), that sounds more like Hallucinatory Terrain than the image spells.


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## Swarmkeeper (Aug 9, 2018)

Lanefan said:


> Can't a part of the illusion be a lack of light elsewhere in the room?
> 
> If an illusion can generate light in the view of those who believe it (e.g. someone casting an illusion replicating said 'light' cantrip) then by the same logic it can "block" light simply by having part of the illusion's effect make it appear that there is less light.  That's awkwardly put, so let me try again: if an illusion of a person, say, can include whatever shadow that person would normally cast (and a wise illusionist would include this to help with believability) then that opens the door for an illusion appearing to block light.  Expand that such that a small part of an illusion is a box around a light and most of the illusion is the "shadow" that box casts and voila: the light goes out.




Minor Illusion being a 5’ cube limits the ability of it to darken an entire room.  It would just awkwardly hide the light source and “darken” a 5’ cube around it until discovered.  Unless your room is a 5’ cube, that is.


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## Mistwell (Aug 9, 2018)

Ovinomancer said:


> Illusions cannot illuminate.  An image of a shadow is not a real shadow.




Sage Advice (as quoted above) says if the illusion includes sensory effects and/or movement, then it casts a shadow.



Ovinomancer said:


> Strong disagree.
> 
> Illusions cannot block anything (unless specifically noted).  They have no physical reality.  The notion that an illusion is enough present to block light but nothing else is special pleading.




Invisibility is an illusion spell, for what that is worth. Most of the mid to higher level illusions pretty clearly do block things. Most of the lower level ones pretty clearly do not. 

This is all covered in that sage advice video linked to above.


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## Storyteller Hero (Aug 9, 2018)

If anyone here would like to add even more variety to their use of illusions, I've written a book of over a hundred illusion spells for DMsGuild.

http://www.dmsguild.com/product/235311/THE-PRESTIGE-Spells-of-Illusion-5e


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## Treantmonklvl20 (Aug 9, 2018)

Ovinomancer said:


> My general rule of thumb us that an illusion can add to a scene, but cannot subtract ir otherwise alter it.




This seems like a very good rule of thumb.


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## Ovinomancer (Aug 9, 2018)

Mistwell said:


> Sage Advice (as quoted above) says if the illusion includes sensory effects and/or movement, then it casts a shadow.



Not sure what you're getting at, here.  Are you saying this refutes me, as 'casts a shadow' isn't exactly clear.  If you believe it means 'actively blocks light as real objects do' then, no, I think Sage Advice is full of it and that this is nothing more than a weak appeal to authority.  If you mean 'the illusion will have realistic shadows as part of it's creation' then we're in agreement -- you can create the illusion of a shadow, but it's not a real shadow.

The defining break I see here is what happens in late afternoon when you create an illusion that would, if real, have a shadow that would extend outside the area of effect of the illusion spell?  I say 'no shadow outside the aoe.'  What do you think the above says?




> Invisibility is an illusion spell, for what that is worth. Most of the mid to higher level illusions pretty clearly do block things. Most of the lower level ones pretty clearly do not.
> 
> This is all covered in that sage advice video linked to above.



Gosh, Misty, if only I had said in the bit your quoted "unless specifically stated" then I wouldn't have that egg on my face.  Wait a second....


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## Mistwell (Aug 10, 2018)

Ovinomancer said:


> Not sure what you're getting at, here.  Are you saying this refutes me, as 'casts a shadow' isn't exactly clear.  If you believe it means 'actively blocks light as real objects do' then, no, I think Sage Advice is full of it and that this is nothing more than a weak appeal to authority.  If you mean 'the illusion will have realistic shadows as part of it's creation' then we're in agreement -- you can create the illusion of a shadow, but it's not a real shadow.
> 
> The defining break I see here is what happens in late afternoon when you create an illusion that would, if real, have a shadow that would extend outside the area of effect of the illusion spell?  I say 'no shadow outside the aoe.'  What do you think the above says?
> 
> ...




Nobody is trying to prove you wrong here. This isn't CM. That's why I said, "for what that is worth" and mentioned the coverage in the link. You are imagining a tone that wasn't there.


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## Pauln6 (Aug 10, 2018)

My long running character was a 2e shadow mage.  I convert her to the new edition every time so in 4e she was a Warlock /Assassin hybrid.  At the moment,  she is a customised Warlock with the modified fey escape ability of the fey pact and life absorbing power of the fiendish pact as the shadow sorcerer doesn't quite do it for me.

This thread is making me wonder if there isn't a lot more potential in illusion than I first thought but what of shadow magic itself?  In 1e it was just a way for illusionists to gain access to quasi real evocation spells and monster summoning but the dividing line blurred when shadow conjuration and shadow evocation became a free for all.

Could 5e sustain shadow magic spells for illusionists,  Shadow sorcerers,  and shadow pact warlocks?  If so, would it be more sensible to restrict conjuration to monster summoning and evocation to a specific list like in 1e?  I'm struggling to see why you need a broad shadow conjuration spell when higher level illusions do the same thing.

Most importantly,  would the broad nature of the spells be unbalanced in a world where sorcerer and Warlock spell choice is so narrow and where bards could poach them?


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## Imaculata (Aug 10, 2018)

Illusion spells are quite powerful in my campaigns. If a player throws a rock at an illusory wall, it will bounce right off if they fail their save to disbelieve it. The illusion not only creates the appearance of the wall, but also the appearance of how other objects interact with it. Throw a rock down an illusory pit, and you'll see the rock fall all the way to the bottom.


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## Ovinomancer (Aug 10, 2018)

Mistwell said:


> Nobody is trying to prove you wrong here. This isn't CM. That's why I said, "for what that is worth" and mentioned the coverage in the link. You are imagining a tone that wasn't there.



Not sure why you thought I thought that.  This isn't CM, you know.  I was asking what you were going for with your comment, with a few leaders for some answers in case that spurred conversation.  Did you have an opinion?


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## Helzod (Aug 11, 2018)

Pauln6 said:


> My long running character was a 2e shadow mage.  I convert her to the new edition every time so in 4e she was a Warlock /Assassin hybrid.  At the moment,  she is a customised Warlock with the modified fey escape ability of the fey pact and life absorbing power of the fiendish pact as the shadow sorcerer doesn't quite do it for me.
> 
> This thread is making me wonder if there isn't a lot more potential in illusion than I first thought but what of shadow magic itself?  In 1e it was just a way for illusionists to gain access to quasi real evocation spells and monster summoning but the dividing line blurred when shadow conjuration and shadow evocation became a free for all.
> 
> ...




"The universe is all in the mind that perceives it, and sensation is the first and only reality."

In past editions it was useful how illusions were separated into categories of figments, glamers, patterns, phantasms, and shadows. Weaving shadows magic created something real from extradimensional energy. 5e is a simpler system, perhaps this influenced the developers decision to backtrack on this principle. The only reference I see to it in 5e is the Illusory Reality ability, although Mirage Arcane does create without naming it shadow magic. I would welcome more from WoTC in this vein.


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## Mad_Jack (Aug 12, 2018)

One of the most entertaining and useful uses of Minor Illusion is the creation of comic-book-style thought bubbles and sound effects... All sorts of hilarity ensues, and can cause all sorts of distractions as the mocked party attempts to discover the perpetrator.
Also, a thunderous farting noise issuing from the mayor's backside followed by an obviously-fake static image of a green cloud, or a beam of light issuing from the paladin's backside accompanied by a voice crying, "Ye gods, the sun really _does_ shine from his < expletive > !!!" can completely undermine someone's authority or credibility.


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