# HM's Carrion Crown AP - OOC



## HolyMan (Feb 4, 2011)

Well this should keep me from having to go through all my PM's again to know what to keep and what to delete. I mean really how did I get to 70 so fast??

*Closed Group* (no recruiting sorry - and my other Carrion Crown games should still be a go will be checking in on that shortly)

@Mowgli - Tengu Inquisitor/Rogue
@GlassEye - Human Alchemist/Ranger(skirmisher/beast master/vivisectionist)
@perrinmiller - Half-Drow Sorcerer/Bard
 @Satin Knights  - Cleric/Summoner

This is set for you to discuss what gestalt characters you might want to look into and any rules you think we should bring into a game like this.

Most notably would be Hero Points (yay or nay?) What sources?? I like to keep that limited but for this I was thinking of allowing the _Pathfinder Chronicles - Campaign Setting _and any feats, equipment or what not from there. And most notably the races section for making interesting characters. Play a Taldan?, Garundi?, or someone from the Mwangi Coast?? 

That would add to the RP I think. 

No character gene yet I am working on it and would like some input. I see some of you were agains the extra HP, but I don't see that as much a difference just a way to free up  a feat so you don't have to take toughness or give up your favored class bonus to HP.

But let us discuss. Thread is all yours.

EDIT: Gestalt Rules 

HM

*LINKS:*
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/303249-carrion-crown-closed-group-ic.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/284482-carrion-crown-closed-group-rg.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/302071-carrion-crown-closed-group-ct.html


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## HolyMan (Feb 4, 2011)

Character Generation:

Allowed Sources: Core, APG, and Campaign Setting

1) *Abilities:* 15 pt buy, after each module you will be given 3 more points to and to your base totals. So that by the time we start the 6th module you will have made a character by using 30 pts. 

2) *Races:*  Core.  Note: Bestiary races to be allowed with a good reason concept/background.

3)* Classes:* Any from sources

4) *Skills, Feats, Traits:* Only allowing one trait from the APG only. A second trait may be taken from the upcoming Carrion Crown Player's Guide. Skills and feats should run normally unless we decide on something else later.

5) *Equipment:* Max GP from highest classes Starting GP + 50gp

6) *Starting HP:* Looks like Max from lowest HD class + 1/2 from highest HD class + misc (HP/lvl = Highest HD class MAX -2)

Advancing...
placeholder

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 4, 2011)

I would like to use the AGP and some of the playable races from the bestiary and bestiary 2.  I have no definite plans yet, but I want the option. 

Of all the characters I have in my stable, I am missing an arcane caster so maybe that would be my first choice.  

But I mentioned this to Mowgli in a PM, we should decide on roles first.  We should have at least one healer, one rogue type, one tank, and one fire support.  But with gestalt rules then everyone can take a spellcaster class and this means we can be balanced and redundent.

So if it is easier, everyone could come up with their top two ideas and then see what we have.  Maybe we will naturally be balanced.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 4, 2011)

My wierdness has me thinking (as HM said) of a Dhampir Inquisitor/Rogue. So he'd fill the skill monkey role/flanking/trapfinding role, along with providing good knowledge of foes so we'd have a good read on weaknesses.

The Dhampir have negative energy affinity, so if I go this route the channel energy aspect for other characters would need to be discussed.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 4, 2011)

Do we need to discuss alignment first?  I was assuming that playing an adventure path meant being pretty much a good party, rather than evil.  

Do I need to ask about my half-drow elf again?  Or is that a no, don't ask.   I do have that evil sorceress, Frivin, that I was going to use in Lughart's game which I have almost written off as never getting off the ground.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 4, 2011)

I was looking at True Neutral for alignment. I actually prefer playing good characters, and I'm not sure I could pull off an evil character - or that I'd like playing one for the duration of a full adventure path. Inquisitor requires an alignment w/in one step of the deity's; as Norgorber is NE, TN makes the cut.

My concern for the character I'm looking at wasn't so much for alignment as for the fact that he can't be healed by positive energy (he'll actually be hurt by it) so the feat allowing for excluding specific characters from channeling will be of great benefit. Not necessary as long as we get some tactics worked out ahead of time but definitely beneficial.

APs are written with the assumption that it'll be a neutral to good party going through, but Paizo's better than most I've seen at allowing for evil parties. I don't know anything about this AP in particular other than the general idea that it's got strong horror influences - which to me says undead, but that may not be the case.


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## GlassEye (Feb 4, 2011)

I wish the Player's Guide were out now...

I'm fine with neutral to good but I have the feeling this may be an AP hard on paladins and lawful good types.  Not that I'm planning on playing that, just sayin'.

I've recently become interested in trying to reskin the alchemist but the idea is still pretty nebulous and I'm not sure what I would couple it with.  I've briefly toyed with the idea of a Cavalier/Cleric but I don't want to be bound to that idea.  I also have the idea for a 'cursed' character, descendant of a witch-hunter, a cavalier/ranger whose ranger combat style is natural combat.  The last idea is obviously the most developed and it's the one I favor.  It might work just as well as ranger/alchemist.  I'll have to think on it (not like we don't have plenty of time).


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## HolyMan (Feb 4, 2011)

Have takin' the second post and edited into a character gene spot, to get the discussion rolling.

Now I think knowing how HP will work would help with some of your combo thinking.

One way we could do it is:

At 1st lvl MAX (from lowest HD class) + 1/2 MAX (from highest HD class) + CON  = starting HP

So a Fighter/Wizard would have 11 + CON to start... a Barbarian/Rogue would have 12 + CON 

A little jump in the HP to start but nothing dramatic unless you take two martial class and then you really should have high HP. (Barbarian/Fighter  = 16 + CON)

If you like this let me know I am still working on what to do for lvl ups. So many options.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 4, 2011)

Yeah, it really _would_ be nice if Paizo would put out the Player's Guides the month before the AP is due out. Might serve to whet the appetite a little, as well as allowing players/GMs to start some prep work. I'd recommend holding off on trait selection until the PG comes out, or at least reserving one trait for use from the guide. There's almost always something in there that's useful in the game, both for integrating the characters and with an actual mechanical advantage.

Another option for me would be to go with Pharasma rather than Norgorber. I'd still get the Death domain as an option, but without the evil overtones.

EDIT: Just saw we're only taking one trait, so I'd recommend saving your trait selection until the PG comes out. Or possibly HM would agree to allow two, but rule that one of them must be from the Player's Guide. (If I were starting either of my AP games at this point, that's likely the route I'd go).


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 4, 2011)

HM, I thought you'd said 20 point buy initially for abilities. 15 points is really tough when you're trying to build a Gestalt class as your two classes are almost certain to rely on different abilities. It's doable, of course, and I'm not complaining - just putting in my two cents.

For the HP, I'm happy to take the higher of the two classes' HD, Max at level one and Max -2 at subsequent levels. Anything more is welcome, of course, but you might want to limit any extras (just to offset the chance of a single crit by a bad guy ending our career at a stage when we can't really get brought back) to first level.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 5, 2011)

Quick thoughts from my phone:

Hmmm, not being healed by a cleric's positive energy is a pain.  In the long you might find you don't like that.

I think starting lower than the heroic array is a bit off, would like 20pt buy-in.  The point increase between modules is an option or something unique to AP?

Is there a reason we are only having one trait?  How about we gain a new trait between each module?

Re: Hero points. Never used them before, can use them or not, no opinion.

Re: HP.  Why not just take Max from the higher of your HD every level.  It gives slightly higher HP compared to LPF and is not complicated.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 5, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> Hmmm, not being healed by a cleric's positive energy is a pain.  In the long you might find you don't like that.




That's kind of what I was thinking as well.

HolyMan, would you consider allowing me to play a Tengu? I've _really_ been wanting to play one, and I didn't exactly get my fill of them in my brief run with Brân in LPF


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## perrinmiller (Feb 5, 2011)

Hmm, I am thinking about combinations with a Sorcerer. Having to go without armor sort of limits the combination for synergy.  Just to confirm we cannot combine two spellcasting classes, like adding either cleric or bard to a sorcerer?


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> HM, I thought you'd said 20 point buy initially for abilities. 15 points is really tough when you're trying to build a Gestalt class as your two classes are almost certain to rely on different abilities. It's doable, of course, and I'm not complaining - just putting in my two cents.
> 
> For the HP, I'm happy to take the higher of the two classes' HD, Max at level one and Max -2 at subsequent levels. Anything more is welcome, of course, but you might want to limit any extras (just to offset the chance of a single crit by a bad guy ending our career at a stage when we can't really get brought back) to first level.




The 20 pts to start get 2 pts per module fell through as I do not want points "saved for later" and to really get your stats up I would need to give 3 pts after each so that is why the drop to 15. You should probably look at spending your points backwards to see how you want them to be in the end (30 pt buy). Just something to keep you busy.

Sorry I'm just not happy with the regular method of doing HP in pbp. Sure in a home game you can ask around the table, "Does everyone want to rest before continuing?" and in 5 mins you are rested and healed. But that could take 3-4 days minimum in pbp to figure out. And if a character is killed at a low level(due to bad crit rolls/saves) it could be over a week till you get a new one worked up so survivability at low levels is what I am looking at. Still working on my numbers but really nothing to major as I can see.  



perrinmiller said:


> Quick thoughts from my phone:
> 
> Hmmm, not being healed by a cleric's positive energy is a pain.  In the long you might find you don't like that.
> 
> ...




The point buy increase is something I picked up from [MENTION=478]Thanee[/MENTION] and twik'ed a bit. What it does is start you off as standard heroes at a 15 pt buy in. And as you advance through the modules your stats will increase so that by the time you are at the last one your pt buy is the same as if you had spent 30 pts. i.e. you are now Epic Heroes 

One trait due to me seeing everyone taking the same one (+2 init) and then something to go with their character concept. Also one trait to start makes the feat Additional Traits pretty tempting. And for now it is one - let's see what you come up with before adding in another.

HP - yes less complicated and a little boring and since you know what you are getting you can plan for it. But this is a group game let me think of some variations to try and have you all vote on it. Fair enough? But whatever I do I think to start the HP will be slightly higher than the norm for reasons stated above.



Mowgli said:


> That's kind of what I was thinking as well.
> 
> HolyMan, would you consider allowing me to play a Tengu? I've _really_ been wanting to play one, and I didn't exactly get my fill of them in my brief run with Brân in LPF




Sure Mowgli. Anyone else want to help form a murder of crows like in the LPF - 



perrinmiller said:


> Hmm, I am thinking about combinations with a Sorcerer. Having to go without armor sort of limits the combination for synergy.  Just to confirm we cannot combine two spellcasting classes, like adding either cleric or bard to a sorcerer?




That is correct you can only have one primary caster and if you take a second class that has the option to forgo spellcasting for some other class feature you will be required (though I hate to do it) to take the alternate i.e. Cleric/Ranger (skirmisher)

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 5, 2011)

OK, I can see your points in all of that. I do have a question about the eventual point-buy total. Normally point buy stops at first level, and there are limits on how high you can take the points (7+/18- before racial mods). Would our final point buy numbers (before racial and level up mods) be expected to be within these ranges? I think I'd prefer that, but I'd be fine either way.

So at this point I'm looking at a Tengu Inquisitor/Rogue build, TN alignment, worshiping Pharasma, with the Death domain. Still open to discussion, of course, as there's plenty of time.

For HP, what about max on the larger die plus roll the smaller at first level, max-2 on the larger and roll on the smaller on level ups?


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

*Hit Points*

I have looked at a couple ways and with me hating numbers you know I want to do something a little different that the "regular way". 

But that is an option (option #1 in fact)

#1: Max HP at first lvl from highest HD class + CON
- Per/lvl = Roll HP as normal + CON

#2: Max HP at first lvl from highest HD class + half HP from other class + CON
- Per/lvl = Half of Max HP from highest HD class + CON

#3: Max HP at first lvl from lowest HD class + half HP from other class + CON
- Per/lvl = Max HP from highest HD class - 2  + CON

#4: Max HP at first lvl from lowest HD class + roll HP from other class + CON
- Per/lvl = Half of Max HP from highest HD class + roll HP from other class

Those are just a few of the combos (please suggest any others you can think of), but these four should show you what I'm looking for.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

I think that is how the re point buys will work by default. You will start with 15 pts buy stats and then adjust as normal.

When you complete a module you will go back and spend 3 more points - no saving or leftovers - and this is added to non adjusted scores (i.e. you will need to keep track of the original scores). Then re-adjust the new scores with racial and magic as normal.

With only getting 3 pts you will never be able to "re-adjust" from 17-18 as it cost 4 pts. And is why I need to do 3 pts instead of 2, or you wouldn't be able to go from 15-16 or 16-17.

placeholder is for HP list (for voting) just wanted it at someplace easy to find.  and what you listed is something I'm looking at.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

bump as top post is edited. 

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 5, 2011)

Not quite sure how I feel about the HP options, to a certain extent I think it depends upon how you plan to alter the AP for gestalt - if at all.  On balance I do prefer not to roll HP, but its not too big a deal for me.

We are running with Hero Points in my Kingmaker game and I am really enjoying them so far.  If I remember correctly there is an option to spend them to avoid dying, but it might take two. Anyway I rather like them.

I'm going to force myself to avoid summoner - I already run two - and had been thinking of a fighter Cleric.  Or possibly an Paladin Oracle if someone else is planning to go Cleric.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 5, 2011)

Speaking to the HP options, it would help if we knew what your goal is. Do you want to give a bump to HP at all levels? A big bump at first followed by a smaller increase for later levels?

Of the ones you presented, I like #3 the best. It keeps things simple, gives a decent bump at first level to enhance resistance to that single crit kill and provides slightly better than average HP/Level as we level up. I also like it because the 'slightly better than average' is better for higher HD classes - for a d6 class it's actually right at average, for a d8 it's +1.5/level, d10 is +2.5/Level, and d12 is +3.5/Level.

Regarding Hero Points, I _really_ like 'em. I'm using them in both of the APs I run. I personally don't like the feats and items that go along with them, though. I think using those options puts too much focus on what (to me) should be a neat side option used to save your bacon or get something done that would be otherwise nigh on impossible.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 5, 2011)

Thanks for explaining the +3 point buys at later levels.  I think I understand.

I agree with Mowgli on the HP issue.  Option #3 but perhaps an explanation of the reasoning would help to be better informed.

So far it looks like we are going to be pretty mixed based on initial ideas.  Having a cleric is good for primary healing and we can get secondary from an Inquisitor and Witch possibilities.  With a Fighter and a Ranger for front line and the Rogue and Sorcerer in the back our tactics should be good.


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

Aldern Foxglove said:


> Not quite sure how I feel about the HP options, to a certain extent I think it depends upon how you plan to alter the AP for gestalt - if at all.  On balance I do prefer not to roll HP, but its not too big a deal for me.
> 
> We are running with Hero Points in my Kingmaker game and I am really enjoying them so far.  If I remember correctly there is an option to spend them to avoid dying, but it might take two. Anyway I rather like them.
> 
> I'm going to force myself to avoid summoner - I already run two - and had been thinking of a fighter Cleric.  Or possibly an Paladin Oracle if someone else is planning to go Cleric.




- I really can't plan anything (which is a bummer) as I haven't seen the first module or the others to know what to expect. That is going to really change the way I normally do things. Normally I would find spots in the adventure and give you goals to complete to achieve a lvl up. But not knowing if there will be anything to use like that well will make it hard. 

- I am using Hero Points in my Age of Worms game but not used as of yet. You are right it takes two to stop yourself from bleeding out. 

- Please do and I hope everyone else tries really hard a s well. I see summoners as a character and a half (if the eidolon is built for combat).



Mowgli said:


> Speaking to the HP options, it would help if we knew what your goal is. Do you want to give a bump to HP at all levels? A big bump at first followed by a smaller increase for later levels?
> 
> Of the ones you presented, I like #3 the best. It keeps things simple, gives a decent bump at first level to enhance resistance to that single crit kill and provides slightly better than average HP/Level as we level up. I also like it because the 'slightly better than average' is better for higher HD classes - for a d6 class it's actually right at average, for a d8 it's +1.5/level, d10 is +2.5/Level, and d12 is +3.5/Level.
> 
> Regarding Hero Points, I _really_ like 'em. I'm using them in both of the APs I run. I personally don't like the feats and items that go along with them, though. I think using those options puts too much focus on what (to me) should be a neat side option used to save your bacon or get something done that would be otherwise nigh on impossible.




-My goal?? My goal is always the same. GOAL = Have fun 

The HP were to help with survivability and to keep all four players up in a fight. Being just four of you will limit actions and if someone drops due to a bad hit from a battle axe. Then you are really stuck with minimum actions in a round. And I figure since you have two classes we should do something with each. Also experimenting is fun, for me the experimenter but maybe not so much for you the experimentiee. 



perrinmiller said:


> Thanks for explaining the +3 point buys at later levels.  I think I understand.
> 
> I agree with Mowgli on the HP issue.  Option #3 but perhaps an explanation of the reasoning would help to be better informed.
> 
> So far it looks like we are going to be pretty mixed based on initial ideas.  Having a cleric is good for primary healing and we can get secondary from an Inquisitor and Witch possibilities.  With a Fighter and a Ranger for front line and the Rogue and Sorcerer in the back our tactics should be good.




-Your welcome

- No reason other than those above. 

- I think a primary Cleric would be good as well. Channel Energy will again help with a small group. 


HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

AFg's question has led me to thinking. And I will put this before all of you to see what you wish to do.

Normally with a module I will clip and cut at it for pbp. I will take out anything I see as extras and might slow the game down. Treasure will be rerouted into other encounters or found in totally random secret hiding places. And XP would be dropped for a system of here's your goal to reach the next Level (this keeps players focused and not out looking to pick bar fights for extra XP).

But not having the modules in advance (would need at least the first three I would say) that may be problematic for me. And I say that because I see some fast posters in this group.  I will not be surprised if we are waiting around on a module to get to me should we be ready to start the day I get the first one, LOL.

But then the fact you all do post pretty regularly gives me the option not to cut up the module and in fact if we don't stray to far off we could play it in full. But that would be up tp you. You all know that the module will have enough combat, skill challenges, etc. for level ups. And as we advance they will be numerous.

So this long windedness is just to ask - Should I modify the module for pbp or let it ride?

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 5, 2011)

Regarding methods of leveling the characters, there are a couple of ways you can go with an AP.

Paizo writes them with an 'Advancement Track', giving you a good estimation of where you should be at certain points of each installment. In my Legacy of Fire game I'm not keeping up with XP very carefully, rather I'm using the Advancement Track to keep the characters in line. This frees me up to throw in the occasional random encounter or oddball NPC without worrying about the extra experience getting the encounter balance out of whack. (I don't take anything out but I may toss extras in for purposes of getting a stalled section moving again, giving a clue to the PCs, or managing (using up) their resources if they start playing the 15 minute adventuring day).

The APs written for Pathfinder (everything from Council of Thieves on) use the Medium advancement speed, and encounters are written and placed to keep the characters generally on track for the APs level assumptions. In Serpent's Skull I'm keeping up with XP (so far) and plan to advance you guys that way; but this plan may change, as I'm liking the way LoF is working out.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 5, 2011)

I would _strongly_ recommend that you not cut up the adventures, for a few reasons.

First, Paizo are masters of tying long adventures together. In every AP I've read there are ties from one part of an AP installment to another, and then ties between installments as well. What happens at later points is often dependent on choices characters make - sometimes minor ones - earlier on. Changing things up is a quick way to lose track of what's going on.

Second, Adventure Paths are definitely marathons, not sprints. There's a depth to them that's lacking in shorter runs, and I'd really like the freedom to explore that a little rather than playing it out as a run from one encounter to another.

Third, unlike LPF where there's some pressure to move from adventure to adventure in order to continually take part in the development of the world, in an AP we're going to be playing the same characters and interacting with the same PCs throughout. It's one long adventure, so there's not the same need to 'wrap it up.'

IMO, the most important thing regarding pace in an AP is going to be to keep the activity (posting) level to at least one or two a day - in general - in order to keep the story flowing.


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## HolyMan (Feb 5, 2011)

This will be my first AP run as a DM but I have heard good things on them. So I was leaning towards running it as is. Your mention of links in adventures to come is what has me worried about starting and then cutting and screwing up the adventures that come out later.

Also most modules I am running now on pbp I have ran in RL so I know kind of what can go and what needs to stay.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 5, 2011)

I would agree that there should be no need to cut or trim the adventure.  Under normal circumstances, even during dungeon crawling, I am posting daily. I am the person that cannot let an IC thread go too long without making sure my name is listed as the last poster.  

I did take some notes during CotSQ on how to keep things moving in a dungeon crawl, but I don't think we need an SOP like that game was using.  But I do see using a little artificial DM advancement to speed up exploring, but that should be it.

If we are communicating regularly on the OOC thread about scene advancement, there won't be a need to drag things out.  That is an important element I find missing at EnWorld that I have found key to successful PbP flow.  That way players and DM are in sync and there is none of that, "I was waiting for him to post", "Oh, I was waiting for you to post" business.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 8, 2011)

(To make Gestalt classes work in HeroLab I have to create them as a single class. This one (Inquisitor/Rogue Gestalt) I named an Emissary.)

For background, I'd prefer to wait on most of it until the Player's Guide comes out. However, I'm thinking that Pharasma's Inquisitors all belong to a special sect within her church called 'The Dedicated.' Within the devoted are several different specializations, one of which are the Emissaries.

[sblock=HALAL ARNYEKA]HALAL ARNYEKA	CR 1/2
Male Tengu Emissary 1
NN Medium Humanoid (Tengu)
*Hero Points *1
*Init *+2; *Senses *Low-Light Vision; Perception +8
--------------------
*DEFENSE*
--------------------
*AC *16, touch 13, flat-footed 13. . (+3 armor, +2 Dex, +1 dodge)
*hp *12 (1d8); Judgement of Sacred Healing 1
*Fort *+2, *Ref *+4, *Will *+4
*Defensive Abilities *Judgement of Sacred Protection +1; *DR *Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 1: Magic; *Resist *Judgement of Sacred Purity +1, Judgement of Sacred Resistance 2 (Cold)
--------------------
*OFFENSE*
--------------------
*Spd *30 ft.
*Melee *Bite (Tengu) -5 (1d3/20/x2) and
. . Cestus +0 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Dagger +0 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Sap +0 (1d6+1/20/x2) and
. . Sawtooth Sabre +0 (1d8+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Sawtooth Sabre +0 (1d8+1/19-20/x2)
*Ranged *Shortbow +2 (1d6/20/x3)
*Special Attacks *Bleeding Touch 1 rounds (5/day), Judgement of Sacred Destruction +1, Judgement of Sacred Justice +1, Judgement of Sacred Piercing +1, Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic), Sneak Attack +1d6
*Spell-Like Abilities *Bleeding Touch 1 rounds (5/day)
*Emissary Spells Known *(CL 1, +0 melee touch, +2 ranged touch):
1 (2/day) _Shield of Faith, Cure Light Wounds (DC 13)_
0 (at will) _Resistance, Disrupt Undead, Guidance, Sift_
--------------------
*STATISTICS*
--------------------
*Str *12, * Dex *15, * Con *10, * Int *14, * Wis *15, * Cha *10
*Base Atk *+0; *CMB *+1; *CMD *14
*Feats *Combat Expertise +/-1
*Traits *Sacred Touch
*Skills *Acrobatics +5, Climb +0, Disable Device +6, Escape Artist +1, Fly +1, Intimidate +1, Knowledge: Local +6, Knowledge: Nature +6, Knowledge: Religion +6, Knowledge: The Planes +6, Linguistics +10, Perception +8, Ride +1, Sense Motive +7, Stealth +7, Survival +6, Swim +0* Modifiers *Monster Lore
*Languages *Celestial, Common, Infernal, Skald, Tengu, Varisian
*SQ *Emissary Domain: Death, Hero Points (1), Judgement (1/day) (Su), Trapfinding +1
*Combat Gear *Studded Leather, Dagger (2), Shortbow, Arrows (20), Sawtooth Sabre, Sawtooth Sabre, Cestus, Sap; *Other Gear *Backpack, Masterwork (4 @ 7.5 lbs), Potion of Cure Light Wounds, Rations, trail (per day) (2), Rope, silk (50 ft.), Soap, Bar (50 uses), Thieves' tools, Wrist sheath, spring loaded (2)
--------------------
*TRACKED RESOURCES*
--------------------
Arrows - 0/20
Bleeding Touch 1 rounds (5/day) (Sp) - 0/5
Dagger - 0/2
Judgement (1/day) (Su) - 0/1
Potion of Cure Light Wounds - 0/1
--------------------
*SPECIAL ABILITIES*
--------------------
*Bleeding Touch 1 rounds (5/day) (Sp)* Melee touch attack deals 1d6 bleeding damage.
*Combat Expertise +/-1* Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
*Emissary Domain: Death* Granted Powers: You can cause the living to bleed at a touch, and find comfort in the presence of the dead.
*Hero Points (1)* Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
*Judgement (1/day) (Su)* Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
*Judgement of Sacred Destruction +1 (Su)* Weapon Damage bonus.
*Judgement of Sacred Healing 1 (Su)* Fast Healing
*Judgement of Sacred Justice +1 (Su)* Attack bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Piercing +1 (Su)* Concentration and vs. SR bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Protection +1 (Su)* AC bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Purity +1 (Su)* Save bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 1: Magic (Su)* DR/magic
*Judgement of Sacred Resistance 2: Cold (Su)* Energy Resistances
*Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic) (Su)* DR bypass
*Low-Light Vision* See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
*Monster Lore +2 (Ex)* +2 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknessess of creatures.
*Sacred Touch* You were exposed to a potent source of positive energy as a child, perhaps by being born under the right cosmic sign, or maybe because one of your parents was a gifted healer. As a standard action, you may automatically stabilize a dying creature mer
*Sneak Attack +1d6* +1d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
*Trapfinding +1* +1 to find or disable traps.

Created With Hero Lab® - try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com![/sblock]

[sblock=HALAL ARNYEKA (Level 5)]HALAL ARNYEKA	CR 4
Male Tengu Emissary 5
NN Medium Humanoid (Tengu)
*Hero Points *1
*Init *+5; *Senses *Low-Light Vision; Perception +12
--------------------
*DEFENSE*
--------------------
*AC *21, touch 14, flat-footed 17. . (+7 armor, +3 Dex, +1 dodge)
*hp *41 (5d8+5); Judgement of Sacred Healing 2
*Fort *+5, *Ref *+7, *Will *+6
*Defensive Abilities *Evasion, Judgement of Sacred Protection +2, Trap Sense +1, Uncanny Dodge; *DR *Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 2: Magic; *Resist *Judgement of Sacred Purity +2, Judgement of Sacred Resistance 4 (Cold)
--------------------
*OFFENSE*
--------------------
*Spd *30 ft.
*Melee *+1 Sawtooth Sabre +4 (1d8+2/19-20/x2) and
. . +1 Sawtooth Sabre +4 (1d8+2/19-20/x2) and
. . Bite (Tengu) +0 (1d3/20/x2) and
. . Cestus +5 (1d4+1/19-20/x2) and
. . Dagger +5 (1d4+1/19-20/x2)
*Ranged *Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +1) +7 (1d8+1/20/x3)
*Special Attacks *Bane (+2 / 2d6) (5 rounds/day) (5 rounds/day), Bleeding Touch 2 rounds (5/day), Judgement of Sacred Destruction +2, Judgement of Sacred Justice +2, Judgement of Sacred Piercing +2, Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic), Sneak Attack +3d6
*Spell-Like Abilities *Bleeding Touch 2 rounds (5/day), Detect Alignment (At will), Discern Lies (5 rounds/day)
*Emissary Spells Known *(CL 5, +3 melee touch, +6 ranged touch):
2 (3/day) _Restoration, Lesser, Consecrate, Cure Moderate Wounds (DC 14)_
1 (5/day) _Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Hide from Undead, Cure Light Wounds (DC 13)_
0 (at will) _Resistance, Disrupt Undead, Acid Splash, Light, Guidance, Sift_
--------------------
*STATISTICS*
--------------------
*Str *12, * Dex *16, * Con *12, * Int *14, * Wis *15, * Cha *10
*Base Atk *+3; *CMB *+4; *CMD *18
*Feats *Combat Expertise +/-1, Double Slice, Gang Up, Precise Strike, Two-weapon Fighting, Weapon Finesse
*Traits *Sacred Touch
*Skills *Acrobatics +10, Bluff +5, Diplomacy +5, Disable Device +12, Escape Artist +2, Fly +2, Intimidate +7, Knowledge: Arcana +7, Knowledge: Dungeoneering +7, Knowledge: Local +7, Knowledge: Nature +7, Knowledge: Religion +7, Knowledge: The Planes +7, Linguistics +13, Perception +12, Ride +2, Sense Motive +10, Stealth +12, Survival +10, Swim +0, Use Magic Device +8* Modifiers *Monster Lore
*Languages *Abyssal, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Infernal, Kelish, Shoanti, Skald, Tengu, Varisian
*SQ *Emissary Domain: Death, Hero Points (1), Judgement (2/day) (Su), Solo Tactics (Ex), Teamwork Feat (change 2/day), Track +2, Trapfinding +2
*Combat Gear *Cestus, +1 Mithral Agile Breastplate, +1 Sawtooth Sabre, +1 Sawtooth Sabre, Masterwork Longbow, Composite (Str +1), Dagger (2); *Other Gear *Handy Haversack (5 @ 8.5 lbs), Potion of Cure Light Wounds (4), Rations, trail (per day) (2), Rope, silk (50 ft.), Soap, Bar (50 uses), Thieves' tools, Wrist sheath, spring loaded (2)
--------------------
*TRACKED RESOURCES*
--------------------
Bane (+2 / 2d6) (5 rounds/day) (5 rounds/day) (Su) - 0/5
Bleeding Touch 2 rounds (5/day) (Sp) - 0/5
Dagger - 0/2
Discern Lies (5 rounds/day) (Sp) - 0/5
Judgement (2/day) (Su) - 0/2
Potion of Cure Light Wounds - 0/4
Teamwork Feat (change 2/day) - 0/2
--------------------
*SPECIAL ABILITIES*
--------------------
*Bane (+2 / 2d6) (5 rounds/day) (5 rounds/day) (Su)* Make the weapon you are holding a bane weapon.
*Bleeding Touch 2 rounds (5/day) (Sp)* Melee touch attack deals 1d6 bleeding damage.
*Combat Expertise +/-1* Bonus to AC in exchange for an equal penalty to attack.
*Detect Alignment (At will) (Sp)* Detect chaos, evil, good, or law at will.
*Discern Lies (5 rounds/day) (Sp)* Discern Lies at will
*Emissary Domain: Death* Granted Powers: You can cause the living to bleed at a touch, and find comfort in the presence of the dead.
*Evasion (Ex)* If you succeed at a Reflex save for half damage, you take none instead.
*Gang Up* You are considered to be flanking your target if another ally is also adjacent to that target
*Hero Points (1)* Hero Points can be spent at any time to grant a variety of bonuses.
*Judgement (2/day) (Su)* Variable bonuses increase as the combat continues.
*Judgement of Sacred Destruction +2 (Su)* Weapon Damage bonus.
*Judgement of Sacred Healing 2 (Su)* Fast Healing
*Judgement of Sacred Justice +2 (Su)* Attack bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Piercing +2 (Su)* Concentration and vs. SR bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Protection +2 (Su)* AC bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Purity +2 (Su)* Save bonus
*Judgement of Sacred Resiliency 2: Magic (Su)* DR/magic
*Judgement of Sacred Resistance 4: Cold (Su)* Energy Resistances
*Judgement of Sacred Smiting (Magic) (Su)* DR bypass
*Low-Light Vision* See twice as far as a human in low light, distinguishing color and detail.
*Monster Lore +2 (Ex)* +2 to Knowledge checks when identifying the weaknesses of creatures.
*Precise Strike* +1d6 precision damage for melee attacks if you and an ally with this feat flank the same target.
*Sacred Touch* You were exposed to a potent source of positive energy as a child, perhaps by being born under the right cosmic sign, or maybe because one of your parents was a gifted healer. As a standard action, you may automatically stabilize a dying creature mer
*Sneak Attack +3d6* +3d6 damage if you flank your target or your target is flat-footed.
*Solo Tactics (Ex)* Count Teamwork feats as if your allies had the same ones.
*Teamwork Feat (change 2/day)* Swap your most recent Teamwork feat for another
*Track +2* +2 to survival checks to track.
*Trap Sense +1 (Ex)* +1 bonus on reflex saves and AC against traps.
*Trapfinding +2* +2 to find or disable traps.
*Uncanny Dodge (Ex)* Retain Dex bonus to AC when flat-footed.

Created With Hero Lab® - try it for free at http://www.wolflair.com![/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller (Feb 8, 2011)

I have been struggling with what to combine with Sorcerer.  Having to avoid Arcane Failure penalties make it difficult to come up with a synergy.  Really only two choices, Monk or Rogue.  I was avoiding Rogue since Mowgli was looking at that. And I am not so sure about Monk, even after looking at the variants in the APG.

So I am wondering if you are really set on combining Inquisitor with Rogue. If you picked up a more martial class instead you can benefit more from heavier armor and higher BAB without losing things from Inquisitor, right?

Anyway, still not sure what to do.  Any suggestions?


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## HolyMan (Feb 8, 2011)

What bloodline?? Also are you thinking melee or ranged for your combat method of choice? Do you wish to enhance your weapons and attack or will the spells be your primary attack power??

And what about Ranger(skirmisher)??

And you are saying you don't wish to take the Arcane Armor Mastery feat? In something like this it would be easier to get than if you were say a fighter/sorcerer under the normal multiclass rules. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 8, 2011)

Air Elemental Bloodline.  Was thinking more combat spell thrower and definitely not melee combatant. Arcane mastery feats come later and can work with using light armor down the road.

I was looking at Zen Archer, but I already have a Elven Ranger in play and was thinking to do something different. Same reason I ruled out Ranger (Skirmisher). But I still might end up using a bow. Outside of some warlocks in 3.5ed, I am not playing any arcane casters.  I have a multi-classed rogue as well somewhere, but that's it for that class as well.

Idea taking rogue would be to gain the skill points, medium BAB, and help provide more non-combat functions.  I hadn't looked at variants yet. 

But the sneak attack might be good if it can be applied to raged touch attacks in round 1.

With 4 characters, I guess I am concerned that we might not have enough high AC characters to protect the squishy sorcerer and a rogue.


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## HolyMan (Feb 8, 2011)

You should look at crossbowman for the fighter alt. in the APG, I think that has some awesome abilities to gain.

Now I believe the AP goes up to 13th lvl (but I might be talked into an after AP adventure ) But if you are looking to stay out of melee than the extra fighter feats would help so you could get Shot on the Run in addition to the traditional PBS, Precise, and so forth.

EDIT: Hmmm... post number 7k snuck up on me.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 8, 2011)

Rogue is actually my favorite class to play, and I haven't run one in years. And I really like the synergy between Inquisitor and Rogue, both for character concept and mechanics.

That said, it surely wouldn't bother me to have another one in the party! We've only got four party members, but we'll have eight classes. GlassEye's favored option at his last check-in was Cavalier/Ranger and Aldern's was Fighter/Cleric - if they go with those, we'll have two heavy hitters. Actually, all of the options they've presented so far have been pretty heavy hitters.


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## HolyMan (Feb 8, 2011)

And you could have different types of Rogues for sure not only with the alternate classes but one could be a "Face" man focus on Diplomacy, Know local, Sense Motive etc, and the other a lock picker trap finder focus on Disable Device, Search, Perception etc.

So you could go Rogue I suggested fighter for the extra feats and being able to take specialization for your bow.

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 8, 2011)

I think my latest ideas lean towards Cavalier/Alchemist or Ranger/Alchemist.


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2011)

Nice a heavy focus on melee combat with one or range with the other. Is that why the hard choice?

Whatever you all decide I would suggest someone take a Cleric class (and not because I am a HolyMan ). I think channel energy(positive) to good to waste specially in a small elite group.

I looked at the Zen Archer pm and not a bad alt class as alt classes go. It gives you Perfect Strike (not a bad feat, at first lvl) and Weapon Focus & Weapon Specialization for evasion. So you trade out an ability you might use once every fourth or fifth encounter (if that much) for two you would get to use every encounter (when you are the appropriate lvl).

I would go for the Sorcerer(air-maybe)/Monk(zen archer) combo.

I say maybe to the air because when I think of the zen archery I think it would be best for buff spells as you couldn't cast and shoot same round. So I see the spells the character has helping with the bow work more than attacking themselves (just me though) with a few back up spells (got to have magic missile in the hole jic).

Also the zen means taking one bow and it being _the one _so I thought what about Sorcerer(arcane) and the bonded object would of course be the your bow. I thought it would be more gain RP wise but the spells look to work out too. 

Invisibility, Dimension Door, Overland Flight to get into position to shoot. 

True Seeing for knowing the target??

If you take the elemental bloodline you basically turn into one down the road and just not what I see for the character you are describing.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 9, 2011)

HM, thanks for the advice.  I am following a build I made for a sorcerer in another game.  I want to make a battle caster, not really an archer & buffer.  If I was building an archer I probably would go with a different class than sorcerer. I did take a glance at the paladin variant without spells.

Can you use a ranged touch spell and stack sneak attack on it when the target is flat-footed?  Might still go with rogue for skills.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 11, 2011)

Hmmm, I looked at Sorc/Rogue.  I would focus on skills that Mowgli's rogue didn't take.  But I still thought about the archer business and even looked at the Arcana Bloodline like HM suggested.

My reluctance to play an archer was because if Lughart ever starts up his games again I have a ranger archer already.  But then I also have a sorcerer too then.  I did make another Ranger archer but that one is also stalled out at the moment.

So, I think I will consider the archer afterall, but I want to make a variant on this character since I am giving up on Lughart's games ever getting off the ground again.
Firvinianna Laali
[sblock=Half-Drow Elf]This is the offspring of a surface elf that was born of a mother that was raped by a Drow male.
Half Drow Elf:
- Drow Ability attributes +2 Dex; +2 Cha; -2 Con (or use Elven instead, depending on player preference)
- Darkvision 60ft, Low-light vision
- Keen Senses +2 Perception
- Elven Immunities to sleep and +2 bonus to saves vs. Enchantments
- Weapon Familiarity Longbows, rapiers, etc..
- +2 Spellcraft on Magical Identification
- +2 to Class Level vs. Spell Resistance

Since not a true surface elf, but raised among them: No Drow Spells, Spell Resistance or poison use.  No light blindness either.[/sblock]
I am going to look at the a build for Arcane Archer then, so I might go with Sorc/Ranger or Sorc/Fighter.

Also I had some thoughts about the initial buy-in and those rewards between modules.  I kinda think I would prefer starting at 25 point buy-in and forgoing the extra points later.  Is it still open for discussion?


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2011)

I don't think I'll open up the 'let other races than core/bestiary' can of worms.

 But if you want to choose elf as a race and say your character is a half-drow for fluff that would be fine. Just keep the elf crunch and have a unique back story.

Yes everything is still open to discussion until a few characters are made and ready then it might be counter productive to go back and change things.

What is the reason you wish to just do standard point buy?

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 11, 2011)

Is the 'no two spellcasting classes' thing set in stone?  Because atm I favor Ranger (Shapeshifter)/Alchemist.  If that is a no-go then I'll have to go either Cavalier/Alchemist (conceptually appropriate) or Barbarian/Alchemist (mechanically appropriate).


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## perrinmiller (Feb 12, 2011)

Re: Half-drow.  Since the mechanics are pretty similar, I will probably stick with the option to use it for RP flavor then if I re-use the same personae.  Pity, I liked having Darkvision and the ability score adjustment to Cha is better for Sorcerers. Otherwise it is the same.

re: Point buy-in.  My reasoning is that, initially the first few levels are tough. With average ability scores that will be even more so with everyone suffering from MAD (Multiple Ability score Dependency).  Even though we would be getting them later, their importance is less critical at later levels as everything else (BAB, Saves, Skill Ranks and normal Ability score increases) is going up too.  So having your primary ability scores starting at 14 vs. 16 is an extra +1 for things at a time when your total bonus for something might go from +1 to +2.  Later on, that increase maybe gives you a jump from +5 to +6, not as big a deal.

re: Multiple spell casting classes: I think there was no such restriction in gestalt rules in 3.5ed.  The reasoning was, that if you had both lists, you could still only cast one spell at a time.  But, I do see that have two primary spellcasting classes is a bit game breaking, essentially doubling the number of spells.  But I do think melee classes (Rangers and Paladins) should be allowed to mix.  Those spells are much fewer and coming later in the game as a secondary ability. It would certainly open up more mixing options since there are very few non-spell casting classes.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 12, 2011)

I think it would be fine to allow mixing a primary and a secondary casting class. TBH, I disallowed it in my game purely as a matter of personal convenience - I use HeroLab to keep up with characters and track combats, and I had to custom build the Gestalt classes for the party in that program. HL isn't built to allow a single class character to have two different casting sources, so unless I put the restriction in place I couldn't have used the program.

(Luckily, both of the players running such combos agreed to take the spell-less archetypes).


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## perrinmiller (Feb 12, 2011)

If Hero Lab is really the reason, then maybe it should be open for discussion then.    At one point I was thinking Sorcerer & Druid but had to immediately toss that idea out the window.


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## HolyMan (Feb 12, 2011)

I see your point on the need now not later but the point of the build as you go is to have a time when you weren't as great as you are now. So it is a ro choice I believe it will add to the experience to think back and say...

 Hmmm I remember when this guy wouldn't even been able to make that roll with a nat 20, but now it's near automatic. 

I would allow for double spell casters. I don't think that to serious as not to many of you will take the option you will still need a meat shield or two.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 12, 2011)

In that case, the realm of possibilities just opened wide.  Sorc/Bard, Sorc/Witch, Sorc/Sommoner, and even Sorc/Cleric.

Whoa, back to the drawing board then. 

Who's going to have healing for sure?  Afg still planning a cleric gestalt (I don't remember)?


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## HolyMan (Feb 12, 2011)

When if everyone gives me a solid class combo I will post it into the first post so everyone (specially me) can be reminded.

Let's get the character gene rules discussed and down so we know what we are about.

Which brings me to equipment does max from highest gp class sound ok? 

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 12, 2011)

Disallowing _any_ two casting combinations was for convenience. I've always (well, after my first try at running a Gestalt game) disallowed combinations of two full casting classes. Part of the encounter balance philosophy is forcing the party to use their resources throughout the adventuring day, 'resources' being another word for spells in most cases. It becomes very difficult to challenge a party with even one Gestalt character made from two full casting classes; ironically, this is actually _because_ of the economy of actions. (Two different full casters will often each cast a spell in a round, burning through their total number of spells about twice as fast as a full casting Gestalt.)


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## perrinmiller (Feb 12, 2011)

[MENTION=29558]Mowgli[/MENTION], are you saying we should not do it?  Because I haven't started looking into possibilities yet.


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## Aldern Foxglove (Feb 12, 2011)

Sorry guys I am going to have to withdraw, my Kingmaker group is going to run the AP, and while you guys are all awesome they are to and we average 30 posts a day. My apologies, but I think you all know I am a sucker for speed by now... I just could not refuse.  And I prefer not to run the same AP twice, certainly not so close together.

I wish you all the best of luck and will be following your progress with interest.  I do not think you will have a problem recruiting someone to take my place.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 12, 2011)

I'm just saying it didn't work out well in the one Gestalt in which I allowed it. Once the levels got up to 5th or 6th, I just couldn't ever find that balance between making things challenging enough for the group to feel like they could fail and completely shredding the characters that weren't focused on spellcasting.

Allowing a primary caster to combine with a secondary worked better for me - the secondary caster classes tend to rely more on their other abilities and use their spells more for buffs and backup utility.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 12, 2011)

Oops, there goes our 4th.  We will need to find another soon before getting too far, maybe.  Got anyone in mind, guys?  I am a little picky who I play with so I am not a fan of just open recruitment.

re: Dual Spellcasters. I see your point.  With a Sorc/Cleric, that would sort of be like that if the cleric side was focused on buffing and healing.  

Sorc/Bard would also bring a buffing and healing spell selection on that side.  I never really considered a bard as a full spellcaster either.  I was going to look into this one first as it provides more skills and armored casting that would carry over to the sorcerer spells as well I would think.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 12, 2011)

RE: Dual Spellcasters - Yep. Sorcerer/Wizard becomes pretty outrageous as well; Sorcerer focuses his limited spell selection on Combat and Defense, Wizard focuses on utility, buffs, etc.  The character then has very versatile combat casting - and a LOT of it - as well as a huge array of utility spells potentially available.

RE: 4th Player - Not sure, but I'm thinking about it. Games where I've done specific invitations rather than open recruitment seem to last longer and the party seems to gel more readily, so that's my preference as well.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 12, 2011)

Scotley always comes up with cool characters, and he's a good player. I can't remember if any of you have gamed with him or not.

He's fairly time limited, but I could see if he's willing to commit to a post a day rate.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 12, 2011)

Never played with him, so dunno.  What about some of the other regulars in LPF?  I am hesitant to ask any new members (he says having only joined the site last March).  Staying power is always suspect.  Perhaps we should discuss this in PMs maybe?


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

And I win the lottery for new guy to invite!  Thanks.  I am waffling between Skirmishing Beast Master Ranger/Summoner and Cleric/Summoner.  I agree we need one true blue cleric.  So, that tips the scale unless someone else wants to be a cleric.  Scratch that, unless two others want to be clerics.  Having two clerics in a party is always good.  

So, Cleric of Erastil, (Feather and Growth)/Summoner with a quadruped, front line fighting with flanking pet.   Aasimar seems to be the go to race, although goblin does look entertaining.


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## HolyMan (Feb 15, 2011)

Hey SK welcome aboard. 

Glad the party will have a cleric (I'm partial to them myself ). I play an Erastil worshiping Cleric in Curse of the Crimson Throne isn't the favored weapon longbow? So a flanking buddy not sure but build what you wish. 

I will update the first post now and if you all wish I will put an RG up tomorrow for concepts to be posted.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 15, 2011)

Welcome SK, glad you like clerics. lol

Reading above I think we are in good stead with healing.  The Inquisitor build and the Alchemist build will have some secondary healing, if I recall.

I am thinking about a Sorc/Bard and will have access to some cure spells as well later on.

Here are some links to on-line pathfinder character sheets:
Plothook Character Profiler :: Index - News
DnD Sheets

Though for dndsheets you might have to double register to get into the sheets section still.  Not sure they fixed it.  And you have to manually add in your 3 points for class skills.  But they have a bigger PF logo.


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## GlassEye (Feb 15, 2011)

Welcome Satin Knights!  Glad you joined us.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

May I have the Heirloom Weapon trait (Lucerne Hammer) from the Adventurer's Armory?  Without it, I would be stuck to simple weapons and a bow.  That, combined with one bad save, slower BAB, and few skill points are trying to tip the scale back to ranger.  Burning a feat to get a good weapon would mean I don't take selective channeling.  If I do get the hammer, I will be in the awesome territory for damage, but we are all supposed to be in that category as gestalts.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 15, 2011)

I am looking at Sorc/Bard.  Since it is a melding of the two classes in the gestalt I am wondering something.

Arcane Casting in Light Armor.  Under normal multi-classing that is a "No" on the Sorcerer spells.  But this is a melding, so I think the answer would be "yes" in this case.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

Unfortunately "Class- and ability-based restrictions (such as arcane spell failure chance and a druid’s prohibition on wearing metal armor) apply normally to a gestalt character, no matter what the other class is." straight from the 3.5 Unearthed Arcana.  

But, it does have "A gestalt character follows a similar procedure when he attains 2nd and subsequent levels. Each time he gains a new level, he chooses two classes, takes the best aspects of each, and applies them to his characteristics." which is different than the link posted by someone before.  So, using this, I could pick up a little bit of ranger with Cleric/Summoner, Ranger/Summoner, Cleric/Summoner.

Edit: I went back and found it.  The toned down version locking to one gestalt type was Mowgli house rules on the other portal.  I could live by it, but could be more effective slipping in two ranger levels over my career.


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## HolyMan (Feb 15, 2011)

Not allowing the AA at all to start maybe finding things from it later. But my question is you want to play a cleric of Erastil and yet your HW will not be your deities favored??

If you want a melee damaging weapon maybe you should think of another god choice. Shelyn(glaive) or Gorum(greatsword) would be good choices for martial weapons for melee. 


pm - not going top allow changes to the RAW of the game gestsalt is a merging of the classes but doesn't allow for changing the class. You could have all your combat spells as bard and utility as sorcerer (not optimum but possible) so the ASF wouldn't truly matter then. Besides the best armor you could have on is a chain shirt and is the same +4 as mage armor. Changing class  to suit opens it up to everyone and every thing so sorry.

You will start with 8 zero lvl spells and unlimited casting it balances out that  half would suffer from ASF. 

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 15, 2011)

Satin Knights said:


> Edit: I went back and found it.  The toned down version locking to one gestalt type was Mowgli house rules on the other portal.  I could live by it, but could be more effective slipping in two ranger levels over my career.




Right - this was the variation HM and I agreed on when we started talking about the game. The idea is to limit the craziness of Gestalt somewhat, as well as to discourage class dipping - which is even more attractive in a Gestalt game. There's nothing in those rules that prevents taking a level in another class, it's just that you can't combine it into a Gestalt.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

If I am going to front line, for weapons, I need a good ranged weapon, a good melee weapon, and something usable in a grapple.  Bow, pole arm, and cestus work well for that combination.  At fifth level, I and my eidolon will each have flight.  The bow will come in more handy then.  But, being limited to spear/staff/club for my melee weapon is painful. If I go with a different deity, then I have lost the range abilities unless I want to sling stones.  My spell strategy is going to be mainly drop one group buff in the surprise round and then melee.

The eidolon is going to focus on distraction tactics and drawing the attacks for the first few levels.  It can't "die", so it toys with the enemy.

And since we are starting with a 15 point buy, my skill usage is going to be non-existent.  The rogue will have to do the skill monkey work.


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## HolyMan (Feb 15, 2011)

As it should be although religious matters should still be deferred to your character.

Think you are trying to do to much with the character. Really everyone will be glad your around for the channeling and if you aren't the greatest warrior to start - you do have an un-kill-able friend to give the group support.

So your thinking Aasimar for the +2 wis/cha both key abilities but not needed to be very high to start. But human would give you a bonus feat so you could get the selective channeling and maybe turn undead or extra channeling or martial/exotic weapon prof or Spell Focus (Conjuration).

I just don't see the character attacking a lot during a combat round  leaving that to the eidolon and him casting. The way your talking you want a Fighter/Summoner.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 15, 2011)

I'm looking at a two-weapon build, which should give me decent damage with surprise/flanking (especially once I pick up Precise Strike as one of my bonus teamwork feats).

So at this point three decent combat types (Ranger/Alchemist, Inquisitor/Rogue, and Cleric/Summoner), any of which will also be able to do some ranged combat. A spell-slinger/buffer in perrinmiller's Sorcerer/Bard. Two skill-monkeys, actually, with the Rogue and the Bard. All of us will have varying degrees of spell-casting as well. Looks like a good party!

EDIT: All of us will have at least a bit of healing ability as well, depending on spell choice.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

Fighter is just boring for me. (step up, power attack, cleave, rinse/repeat)   As it is, I will be +3, d12+4 as a base attack without flanking. Best attack is if my pet gets in and provides flank + aid another, and I spend one of my five swift domain powers/day, I am looking at +7, 3d6+6 with a 20' reach with a normal weapon on the first non-surprise round.   Not too shabby for first level.  Of course, if we buff, Divine Favor for me, Bless or bard's Inspire Courage for all, a knock out blow gets easier.
By third level, with both me and the pet having reach and Precise Strike, I start to dish out the damage.  Fifth level will give us both flight. (domain spell for me)

I am not going to be that much of a caster.  Starting, I will have four spells for the day.  2 buff, 1 utility, 1 healing is probably how they would be used up.  If I relied on my casting, I would be sidelined as a cheerleader 2/3rds of the way through the first fight.

Aasimar: Darkvision and resist to three out of five energy attacks.  If it wasn't available, I would likely be going half-elf and get my weapon through alt features. 

Erastil: The old grump.  Leave my people alone to their backwoods farming and you'll be fine.  Mess with them, and this force of nature will kick you butt into next week.


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## GlassEye (Feb 15, 2011)

Satin Knights said:
			
		

> And since we are starting with a 15 point buy




Has this been decided yet?


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## HolyMan (Feb 15, 2011)

That is to much crunch talk for me LOL I build around backgrounds and such like your take on Erastil btw. You will have to find a new weapon is all and that shouldn't nock you out of being a good melee comabtant.

Allowing you to take a weapon from AA will allow everyone and then it will be feats and traits (that go with the weapons) and I wish not to deal with all that. I'm sure having a base d8 weapon (2d6 with enlarge) will be more than enough to bash some skeletons and zombies at 1st lvl.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 15, 2011)

GlassEye said:


> Has this been decided yet?




Why do you ask? It seems a good balance for gestalt rules and allowing Bestiary races.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

The weapon is in the APG as a martial weapon (p.178).  I was just asking for the Heirloom Weapon Trait from the AA so I wouldn't have to burn a feat for it or go half-elf.  

The Selective Channeling may be waiting for a bit.

I liked the "very old" Unearthed Arcana.  You got so many weapons based on your class, and added more as you leveled.  I also liked weapon speed back then.  A high dex dagger fighter against a greatsword fighter could win many times.


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## HolyMan (Feb 15, 2011)

True I like building characters that are ok I hit a lot but do little damage or I hit once in a while but do mega damage. So in the end it evens out. Just depends on the type you like to RP.

I actually like my gestalts to be like multi-classing but we will play with the rules Mowgli has they are balanced and will be fun. 

So your saying you don't like playing half-elves? Or that burning a feat isn't fair to get an odd (optimum) weapon choice?

HM


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## Satin Knights (Feb 15, 2011)

No, I am saying I want the darkvision and elemental resistances more.  I am going with the aasimar as first choice, but the half elf was the second choice.   I will burn the feat and get the weapon I want.  That is fine.  I can flow with any rules you want to set easily.  I run a variant of this character in PFS as a human.  So, I can downgrade easily.  Still pondering the race though, so it might change.  I am off to run a PFS mod now, back later tonight.


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## GlassEye (Feb 16, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Why do you ask? It seems a good balance for gestalt rules and allowing Bestiary races.




I wasn't sure it had been decided which point buy we were using since I haven't been closely following the outcome of rules discussions.  Sorry, I'm pretty flexible when it comes to what rules we're using and figured I would let you all hash that part out and ended up losing track a bit.


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2011)

NP second post has character gene rules and is up to date.

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 16, 2011)

Thanks!  I'll take a look and start getting some stuff down.

Edit: By the way, my character idea is human Ranger (Shapeshifter)/Alchemist (if I can get it to fit the concept properly).


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2011)

Are you thinking he made/drank something that is slowly turning him into a beast man? And at third lvl will you be able to use your alchemist abilities when in the _blessed form_? 

You don't turn into an animal just gain the aspects of one until lvl 20 then I think you can become an animal. So I guess yes you could.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Character Generation:
> 
> Allowed Sources: Core, APG, and Campaign Setting
> 
> ...




Maybe it wasn't updated  I have added from the talks and added in equipment. What does everyone think of this?

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 16, 2011)

Stacking of abilities is one of the things I need to check out thoroughly.

The rough idea is that an ancestor (grandfather or great grandfather) was a celebrated witch hunter.  He hunted down one of the most powerful witches in Ustalav at the time and fought through her guardian pack of wolves killing them all.  The witch cursed him as she died that he and eight generations of his descendants would be haunted/possessed by the angry spirits of her wolves.

The witch hunter's behavior changed: he developed a taste for blood and would fly into rages.  Realizing what was happening to him he walked into the lake surrounding his manor and drowned himself leaving his wife and young son to survive without him.

The son (my character's father) grew up dark and moody of temperament, distinguished himself in several battles and acquired a knighthood for himself much like his father.  Aside from the moodiness life was fairly normal and he married and had children.  He snapped, killed his family (with the exception of my character who survived the attack) with his bare hands and teeth then threw himself off the battlements.  His liege adopted the pc.

PC grew up and eventually returned to the ancestral home where he is atttempting to find a way to void the curse.  Divine magic has failed so he is delving into darker alchemies to control the dark moods.  Not very successfully, though.

The shapeshifting and mutagens are supposed to represent the manifestation of the curse, mutagens and extracts his attempt to control it.  He won't like witches or lycanthropes (to close to his own curse) or wolves.


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2011)

Great concept and I bet he will be a fun PC to play as he keeps his temper in check. No race listed but I assume human.

Also see where you were leaning towards cavalier still a possibility if you think the ability mods for shifting and mutagenes won't stack. 

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 16, 2011)

For traits, I still think it would be a _very_ good idea to allow one from the APG and one from the Carrion Crown Player's Guide (when it comes out).

My only regret regarding forming the parties for Legacy of Fire and Serpent's Skull before the guides came out has been the lack of PC traits from those works. Having them would have simplified life (a little) for me as a GM and for the PCs.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 16, 2011)

I still would rather start at 25 pt buy and forget the increased between modules, but that's me. 

I agree with Mowgli, one trait now and one form the new book later.

Everything else is fine.

I wrote down Firvinianna Laali on paper for a Sorc/Bard and also a Sorc/Rogue.  But I still haven't decided yet.  Mostly because I am trying to decide on whether I want to go the Arcane Archer route or not. Since Firvin's background is pretty much already written (including tramp stamp ) I just need to figure out the build itself to make sure I will be happy with it in the long run.


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2011)

I think it was the early start and the way we were given the assignment in Serpent Skull that led to those traits being unneeded/unused. I was a little upset that there were no new feats or spells to take later in the PG. 


I like the idea one trait from the APG and one from Carrion Crowns Player's Guide. Will edit it in.

*Update:* Release for the first module is March 16th so the players guide should be out around then.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Feb 16, 2011)

Since I am thinking about the possibility of heavier armor, can we slow down a standard action casting to a full round (or even a full minute) casting in order to avoid the Arcane Spell Failure? 

It is a nice house rule to avoid the "take five minutes to take my armor off, spend 6 seconds casting, and then another five minutes to put my armor back on" issues, but still keeps the spell out of combat unless you risk the failure chance.  I know you want to minimize house rules, but it is a nice compromise, and would affect my spell choices.


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2011)

I really don't see the need. You can summon your eidolon and use your SLA to summon monsters in heavy armor. Why start with no ASF?? Where is the fun in that. I think it is something you should over come as you adventure. 

There are a dozen ways I'm sure to do this. Scrolls and wands. Leaving your spells for emergencies. Later find/buy celestial armor which would be +9 armor, +8 max dex, -2 ACP and 0% arcane failure for your character since it is considered light armor. And would fit your character being an Aasimar. But if we use the houserule why give him that?

I am missing something not knowing exactly what you are thinking of as the roll for this character. I hope we can find is niche within the rules and I guarantee that once I know where you are going I will help you along the way to getting there. It's my job as the DM.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Feb 17, 2011)

If I was going to go with breastplate armor for me, and mage armor on the eidolon, our ACs would be relatively decent.  But, if I have to spend 10 minutes time taking off my armor so I don't blow the 25% miss chance it forces a change in plans.  Yes, I want the celestial armor, but that will be about a year or two away.  And the armor mastery route is two feats, which would also be a long time away.  

If the answer is yes, I could take longer buff spells for the summoner side, start with +2AC for me, and cast those buffs ti-chi style. 
If the answer is no, I start limited to chain shirt, and go for faster attack spells on the summoner side.  
Since everyone is going to insist on me taking haste as soon as it is available, and I wouldn't have the celestial armor by then, I would have to do the light armor only at 4th level anyways.

Role for the character: Smash mouth battle cleric.  Work hard, party hard, bar brawling good ole boy that wanders the natural world, even though he and his companion are not a part of nature.  Commanded by his god to fix the minor problems as he finds them.  Never comfortable in high society or formal settings, but will visit a dragon or satyr to chat and learn it's stories and tales.  (Oh, defender of dragons too.  Will work against anyone attempting to challenge the grand beasts.)
Side note: Dragons are nature's safety valve for ambition.  It is easy to accumulate power.  It is easy to think you are invincible.  Eventually most fall into the ego trap of "I can kill a dragon" and will try.  The dragons weed out the foolish ones that think they can wield great power without consequences.  There are more princes buried in dragon outhouses than castle cemeteries.


Next question:  How many hit points for the eidolon?  At first level, and for his normal progression too?  They generally start hit point starved, and this gestalt thing throws a kink in the process too.


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## HolyMan (Feb 17, 2011)

The answer is no to house rules. There are ways around your ASF. Now you want a battle hardened smash you in the face cleric. And that build is easy. I would be thinking of Summoner as little added bonuses. The eidolon for fighting with, the SLA when needed, and a few extra spells. Because summoner really doesn't add much else HD the same, skill points the same with only a few different add-ons as class skills(all knowledge is nice but then that will be the bards department), and most features are related to the eidolon. 

So the only draw back (ASF) you wish for me to houserule out and I really can't justify it. I can help you play through it and when you reach a higher lvl it will be either gone or negligible. But your one weakness (as I see it) needs to be worked on not written out/over.

Since the eidolon can't die just play the HP normal I guess.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Feb 17, 2011)

Ok.  No is fine, I will just have a lot of little questions as I plan out this character a little bit.  As I said before, any set of rules is fine.  I only fail if I don't ask the question.

HP as normal?  PFS normal of (1/2 round down) + (1/2 round up) + (repeat ...)
or LFP normal of (max first) + (max -2) + (max -2) ...


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## HolyMan (Feb 17, 2011)

I would say normal as in max at 1st lvl and roll after that. But that is silly. To much within the regular rules. The PFS system looks good as it might keep the eidolon from become better than most of the other characters.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 21, 2011)

I have taken a crack at the Sorcerer/Bard.  Elven (But Half-drow for flavor)

Firvinianna Laali


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## HolyMan (Feb 21, 2011)

Good start I see the ?? beside Eschew Materials. Are you wonering if it is to be used for both classes?

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 21, 2011)

Those ? are a help link.  Not sure why they showed up on those two lines, but it is done by the sheet itself.  

Eschew Materials is a feat so I think it applies to all spellcasting, but I haven't looked into it yet.


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## HolyMan (Feb 22, 2011)

From what I can tell Sorcerer gives you the feat as a bonus and the feat says that you need no material component valued at 1gp or less. So it looks good for use with both.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 23, 2011)

Well I have pre-ordered the first adventure. And have found out that the pdf has been moved again (release March 23). So I believe we will probably not be starting this till April 

Anyone up for running your character through a mock combat or two during March? It may help to work out the bugs no character will be set in stone till The IC is up and I lay out the opening post.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 23, 2011)

Works for me.


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## HolyMan (Feb 23, 2011)

He who has the only character finished says, LOL.

I think a fight with an ogre for the big guy tactics and then one with say 6 orcs for the group type. And if we have time we will do a ranged combat.

No one need characters total finished but a rough stats and gear. Figuring out if you like the combo or in GE's case it stacks well. Given time we could "advance the characters" to say lvl 5 to help with stuff like that and face a giant if you all wish.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 23, 2011)

I'm up for it as well. I've got Halal finished other than gear and a few last minute choices with which a combat or two might actually help me out.

I'll see what I can do about getting a full on character sheet posted up in the RG.

And advancing them a few levels and doing another combat would be helpful as well. We've got a month; our typical LPF combats are taking around 2 weeks, right?


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## HolyMan (Feb 23, 2011)

That is about right.

I would prep your characters some how for 5th lvl then. Maybe just post a stat block here.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 23, 2011)

Do we have an RG Thread yet?


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## HolyMan (Feb 23, 2011)

_*cruzh*_

_"Umm... That's a negative. Negative on the RG thing. Comeback."

*cruzh*_

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 27, 2011)

Halal Arnyeka, presented at first and fifth levels. I used 'Wealth by Level' to equip his fifth level incarnation. I also assumed that we'd have our first 3 'bonus points' for Ability Scores, as characters are typically 4th or 5th level at the end of the first AP installment.

We gonna rumble, or what?


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2011)

Roll INIT  

I hope so what do GE and SK think I will put an RG up SUN nite and maybe they could get some basic crunch up (totally changeable) and we will try ogre bashing first should be the easiest. Than the orc horde.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2011)

And one RG....

http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/284482-carrion-crown-closed-group-rg.html

For you all to play with while I go to work.  See you all tonight.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 27, 2011)

We going to test drive level 1 first?  I haven't had time to look at the mechanics of level 5 yet.

After all it isn't March yet.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 27, 2011)

Well, here is Marshan at first, and at  fifth level .  I am off to a kingmaker game at the moment, but could start about 10 hours from now.


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## GlassEye (Feb 27, 2011)

I guess I'm the slowpoke.  Not quite finished yet.


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## GlassEye (Feb 27, 2011)

HM said:
			
		

> When you post up here please make two posts back to back. The first will be your character sheet post and have a link(if needed) and then all your lvl up stuff listed.
> 
> The second will be like a journal to use for misc notes links to key posts in the game and other info.




[MENTION=29558]Mowgli[/MENTION], are you going to make a second post in the RG?


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 27, 2011)

GlassEye said:


> [MENTION=29558]Mowgli[/MENTION], are you going to make a second post in the RG?




Sorry about that - I missed that instruction! (Heads off to make a second post).


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## GlassEye (Feb 27, 2011)

Thanks!


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2011)

Yep we will be doing two fights at lvl 1 and then two at lvl 5. While we battle the player's guide should come out and we can talk about how the characters know each other and such.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2011)

I think I am ready...

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 28, 2011)

I've enough combat bits to start the first level one, I guess.  Is my guy the black haired one?


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## perrinmiller (Feb 28, 2011)

*Firvinianna Laali - Female Half Drow Elf Sorceress*

Firvin is ready to go, longbow in hand.

Initiative (1d20+5=16)









*OOC:*


Are we doing it here or making up a quick IC thread?

BTW, nice to see some cool maps.  What program are you using?





[sblock=Mini Stats]*Initiative:* +5
*AC:* 13 (10 flat-footed, 13 Touch, 17 w/Mage Armor)
*HP:* 10 Current: 10
*CMB:* -1 *CMD:* 12 *Fort:* +0 *Reflex:* +5 *Will:* +3 (+5 vs. Enchantments)
+1 for all with Resistance; Immune to Magical Sleep

*Current Weapon in Hand:* Longbow

*Bardic Performance:* 12/12 Rounds Remaining; Inspire Courage +1, Fascinate, Countersong, Distraction
*Elemental Ray:* 5/5 Remaining (Turn any elemental spell into Electricity)
*Cantrips:* Acid Splash, Ray of Frost, Detect Magic, Resistance, Ghost Sound, Message, Light, Prestidigitation
*Sorcerer 1st Level Spells:* 4/4 remaining; Mage Armor, Magic Missile
*Bard 1st Level Spells:* 2/2 remaining; Cure Light Wounds, Sleep[/sblock]___________________________________________




Firvinianna Laali


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2011)

Yes I do believe the ruggedly handsome one is your guy (for now) I was thinking beasty ranger when I was looking for pics.  When you find something please let me know and I'll change it np.

Since we are going to have a combat only thread started I think I will use Thanee's way of doing combat.

Simple really IC is for RP only (skills I guess too) and the combat thread is for fighting. I have wanted to try it so this will be great as we will have one already set before the game starts.

Here's the thread http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/302071-carrion-crown-closed-group-ct.html

And we will be ready to go once everyone gives me their stat block post. EDIT: Like pm did above, but need it in the CT.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2011)

Paint LOL I am stealing maps from where ever I can find them and using good ol paint to set them.

The brown though is a generic map I made at BattleMAPR this was created by @weem and friends and I like it a lot (thanks again weem )

Some maps for the future I stole from a friend on here hope he doesn't mind. (really hope you don't mind Mowgli - see below and feel free to use the brown one just copy paste the image to paint and make whatever you want like I do. Just like having a battlemap on the table.)

EDIT: btw BattleMAPR is not Explore friendly, works great on FireFox though.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 28, 2011)

HM, You really should look into RPTools

After looking at the tutorials, the learning curve is not bad at all.  Then you can just import the images from the AP source Material.

BTW, I had to make some adjustments to my mini-stats after the first time.

My RG posts are almost done.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 28, 2011)

Feel free to use any maps of mine you see posted! The more polished ones (like the dungeon room below) I usually Photoshop from a module or other published source. The middle one (the campsite) I made myself.

Most of the really important maps you'll be able to find in the AP itself, though there are usually one or two that you'll have to scrounge from somewhere else or make for yourself.

(I shamelessly borrowed Halal's pic from one of the LPF PCs. Either my search-fu is weak, or there's a real dearth of good Tengu pics out there. But this one is pretty much exactly how I picture Halal looking, so it works).


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## perrinmiller (Feb 28, 2011)

Yeah I can help with mapping too.  I create stuff from scratch and sometimes it is easy to put one together in a hurry.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 28, 2011)

Morning, pm! I followed the CS link (looking for Fir's alignment), but it points to Ariel's sheet over on the LPF wiki. Thought you might want to know!

Very nice background, BTW.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 28, 2011)

Well, frak.  I changed the name not the link.

Fixing now.  I wrote that background for her first incarnation that never made it out of char gen so GE has already seen most of it.  The tramp stamp is a nice touch I think.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 28, 2011)

Anyone mind if I take Gray for Halal's speech/thoughts color? It seems to suit him.


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## perrinmiller (Feb 28, 2011)

Go ahead.  Firvin would like to speak in dark red.  But I could use orange or light green.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 28, 2011)

Please not the dark red, it doesn't show well for me.  The orange looked fine.  I think I am going to go with cyan.    And then plum for the eidolon.  In other threads, I have been using the gray for action/mechanics descriptors (5 ft step).   But if you want it, you can have it.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Feb 28, 2011)

Was going to suggest I go with Slate Gray, but there's not enough difference between it and gray to make a difference. I'll find something else, as in other threads I also use gray for OOC comments.


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## Satin Knights (Feb 28, 2011)

If you want the gray, you can have it. I'm the newbie here.    I just thought it was an easy color for anyone to mark their internal actions/mechanics.  It clarifies the actions so their isn't a "was that a ...", but is dark enough to be skipped over when reading as story prose.​


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2011)

Thanks Mowgli I will be keeping an eye out for anymore great maps from you. And yes I believe copying maps they put into the PDF version of the module will be what I use for main battles.

And don't worry about using this gray for OOC during combat. With the CT thread you can post away and do all the OOC you wish and in any color. I will recap rounds crunch wise in the CT and fluff wise in the IC. 

And yes there is a very small amount of pictures out there for Tengu but remember they were called Kenku in D&D.

Found this and used it for the pic I got.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Feb 28, 2011)

Are we going to be using two threads for combat?  That will be a bit inconvenient won't it?


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## HolyMan (Mar 1, 2011)

No We will have the following threads for this...

OOC ... Out of Character

IC ... In Character

RG ... Rogue's Gallery

CT ... Combat Thread

The new thing is the combat thread where you can talk back and forth as we will fight the monsters. I still would like character comments to be quoted into the recap post in the IC. But it will be a lot neater in appearance and since we are doing these combat only test now we don't waste that thread.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 1, 2011)

Hmmm, okay.  I will play it by ear until I get how we use the two threads properly.

Mowgli, you can use orange if you want (remembering Bran), then I will use the light green.  I too use gray for its subdued nature for OOC stuff.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 1, 2011)

Dark Orange it is for Halal, then.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 1, 2011)

D'oh! Ninja'd.

Edit:  Ha, ha.  Too fast and over-posting and editing.

Since I have a habit and style for my IC posts (ref: Ariel, Borric, etc...), will I need to change this to suit the different method we are using with this CT?

BTW, I think there are Initiative rolls needs in the CT for us to begin rumbling.


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## HolyMan (Mar 1, 2011)

Just awaiting GE to post a stat block and SK...

I don't see your domain abilities or SLA listed you should probably put them in the stat block as well. And do you want to use the lama in one of the practice fights?

EDIT: Oh and GE you said in the RG you were thinking of switching from Shapechanger to Skirmisher. Did you want to try the Cavalier? Maybe at 5th lvl since at first lvl it would be close to ranger anyway. Just a thought.

HM


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## Aldern Foxglove (Mar 1, 2011)

In case anyone missed it the Player's Guide is out. HERE. Good luck with the game folks!


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 1, 2011)

Just finished reading through it, getting a few ideas about Halal's background. Inquisitor is going to be a good fit, though I may have a very slightly different take for Halal than is in the PG.

At this point my first choice for a campaign trait is Chance Savior (a slightly better chance to act early and catch those foes flat-footed ).


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## HolyMan (Mar 1, 2011)

Thanks greatly AFg wish i could XP you again. I owe you buddy. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 1, 2011)

Ok.  Added the SLAs and Enlarge domain power.  InvisCastle was a pain.  I registered three times, and it still wouldn't let me login.  I finally rolled an init as a guest.  Are we going to be using it for our die rolls?  The En one is easier than flipping back and forth and pasting.

Yes, the llama is going to be fighting.  Surround and conquer is our strategy.  He just gets to do the running to the far side because he is better at it and a little faster.


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## GlassEye (Mar 1, 2011)

I was not particularly inspired by the Player's Guide (except the mention of the Changeling race to come in #43 and the use of the Harrow).  There were maybe five traits and the only one I was remotely interested in was the Subject of Study, but the benefit seems a little less than exciting.  I might go with the fear one if you'll allow me to change the background for it.

So, orange, light green, plum, cyan, and gray are all marked for characters or specific use.  What other color would be good for my speech?

HM, I thought about cavalier again but I'm not sure I want to be saddled with a mount.

Am I supposed to post this stat block here or somewhere else?  Sorry, I haven't gotten it done yet; I've been pretty busy lately and things have been slipping past me.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 1, 2011)

Stat block goes in the Combat Thread.

As for colors, there is light blue, but avoid the darker blue (I cannot read it at all do to a color issue with my eyes).  Darker green is okay as well.


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## GlassEye (Mar 1, 2011)

Any problems with GOLD?

(Finally found the combat thread.)


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 1, 2011)

Gold works for me, GE!


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 1, 2011)

Satin Knights said:


> I registered three times, and it still wouldn't let me login.  I finally rolled an init as a guest.  Are we going to be using it for our die rolls?  The En one is easier than flipping back and forth and pasting.




Any problem with each player using his preference? I much prefer IC; I'd rather see my rolls as I'm posting descriptions than post, roll, edit post (and sometimes repeat that process several times depending on the actions).


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## perrinmiller (Mar 1, 2011)

I was assuming it was going to be player's choice having played with HM before.  I too prefer IC for the same reasons as Mowgli.

As for colors: Gold. No problem.  

I just looked at the Campaign Traits.  It means you have to incorporate Prof. Lorrimor into your history somehow.  Since I took Reactionary in AGP for the Initiative Bonus, I will probably take Chance Savior to replace it so I can pick something else from the AGP (Probably Focused Mind).

I just remembered that I have more work on my background yet anyway.  I forgot to mention locations in Golarion.  But now with Ustalav being in the picture, I can finish it up.  From the look of things we really will need a Cleric.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 1, 2011)

perrin, since we're both looking at Chance Savior what would you think about Firvin, Halal _and_ the Professor all being at that chance encounter? No more shared history than that, but having that one meeting would give a little more bond/RP for the group.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 1, 2011)

1st, congrats on passing 7000 posts. 

Funny you should mention shared histories, I just finished revising Firvin's right now to include the event.  I can adjust it easily enough after you have read it and tell me what you have in mind.


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## HolyMan (Mar 1, 2011)

GlassEye said:


> HM, I thought about cavalier again but I'm not sure I want to be saddled with a mount.




Do you wish to hold off on the mount to get a monstrous one when you are at a higher lvl? I don't know the adventure so I can't tell you if it would be helpful or not. But having a mount that could go out hunting or take care of itself while you were underground/indoors could possibly work.



perrinmiller said:


> I was assuming it was going to be player's choice having played with HM before.  I too prefer IC for the same reasons as Mowgli.




Dice roller is players choice. When the attacks per round get to be more per round I too will switch to IC as that is easier.

And it sounds like the PG is exactly what this game needed. Can't wait. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 1, 2011)

The Player's Guide mentions mounts will be problematic in certain areas because they are urban or dungeons.  I think the companion a ranger gains at 4th would be more manageable so I think I'll stick with ranger.  Though that will end up giving us three companions in the group at 4th...


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## perrinmiller (Mar 2, 2011)

OK, I posted in the CT.  I used the same style from my normal IC combat posts.  Though when we have an IC thread, are we splitting the posts into both threads?

I plan to work on different things so perhaps replaying some of these combats might not be a bad idea.  I am not really needing to learn how to use my spells at 1st level, but I am more interested in working out group tactics to see how we can work together instead of just acting individually willy nilly like a bunch of pikers. 

Also i think we should try the alternate method of handling Initiative.  For this one we are following individual initiatives for players.  What about the opposition, all on one Initiative count?

For the next combat (or a replay of this one) can we try complete group initiative (us vs. them)?


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 2, 2011)

I'm surely willing to try different things for initiative. Mainly I'm just happy to be here! 

My favorite - though it's a little harder to keep track of and does take a _little_ longer - is individual initiative for all combatants. Not only is it more realistic, it also makes the party think a little more about their tactics. Occasionally it opens up some options for the group (or closes some off) that aren't available if we know the bad guys are all always going on the same count.


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## HolyMan (Mar 2, 2011)

Let's see. I normally do init in various ways to keep the players on their toes.

I will do individual for small groups of monsters normally 4 or less. And for 6 or more I like to break them up into two or more groups and roll for each.

We can try different things but you should fight a little "willy nilly" to start because your characters don't know each other than after a few fights you should act more like a well oiled machine. 



> OK, I posted in the CT.  I used the same style from my normal IC combat  posts.  Though when we have an IC thread, are we splitting the posts  into both threads?




No there will be no posting in the IC thread during combat you should post normal and when the combat is over I will recap in the IC (probably more than once if the combat is long). For an example let's say that the OOC for now is the IC and after the fight I will show you. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 2, 2011)

Okay, I think I get it now:
1. The CT thread is an IC thread for combat only and our actions and mini-stats will clutter it in spoiler blocks.  
2. The IC thread is meant to be free of OOC comments and just be IC content only.  Are we going to roll dice in the IC thread or use spoiler blocks?  I would suggest if we are going to try to keep it clean as possible, everyone use Invis castle so they can hide the rolls.  Or we can put the dice rolling in the OOC thread, maybe
3. The OOC thread will be used routinely for other stuff.

re: Initiative.
I have seen and used all three methods as a player and as DM.  

With 5 people (gotta count the DM too) individual initiatives can work, but I don't think HM's posting frequency makes it attractive to me (no offense meant HM, just being honest).  To be done properly the DM needs to provide results almost after every player then. Afg makes it work because he practically lives on-line and can focus on the games he is running to ensure it doesn't slow down.  Even I cannot dedicate the frequency to do it in my own LPF game as DM.  But I would agree there is an appeal to do it, and I have one game with only two players where it works well.

But if the bag guys are all on the same Initiative count, I have found that it is better to use a group initiative for the players too.  Here's why:
- With all of us spread over different timezones we can all post our turn during our own 24 hour cycle without needing to wait.
- Easy to delay and keep track of whose turn it is.
- Combat rounds can be completed 1 round per day.

True it takes away something of the realism, but in PbP it is a sacrifice for keeping things moving.

When I run group initiatives, I still roll everyone's initiative individually.  I average each side to determine who goes first.  If the losing side has individuals (like those with Improved Initiative feat) who beat everyone on the winning side, they (and only they) get to go first still.

I also prefer the DM to roll initiatives.  Once combat is going to start it just makes more sense to me to have things actually start rather than wait a whole day for everyone to just roll a dice.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 2, 2011)

Halal will (eventually) be very focused on initiative, so my concern (which you addressed, pm) would be only that whatever method we do doesn't detract from that usefulness - class features, feats and traits to boost it become a much harder investment in that case.

Averaging initiative (without some arrangements for such characters) 'waters down' the advantage of taking Improved Initiative (and other feats and traits that allow one to act more quickly) as well as that of adding Wisdom mod to initiative roll (which Halal will do at second level).

Another possibility would be to just do initiative in order of highest modifier to lowest without rolling any dice at all (tie goes to the higher DEX, still tied is GM choice).


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## perrinmiller (Mar 3, 2011)

The way I do it keeps it being beneficial as long as your goal is to beat the opposition's initiative. That feat gives us all an automatic +1 boost to our average and you still have a better shot of beating all the opposition on you own if our side loses.

If you guys want I can roll all the Initiatives and show you when we start the Orc fight.


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## HolyMan (Mar 3, 2011)

Sounds good we will try it and see what everyone thinks.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 3, 2011)

Re: GM rolled initiative - I'm in agreement with both the action and the reason. I do prefer to actually see the results of rolls made for me by the GM whenever it won't give me metagame advantage (I like to know how well or how poorly I did). I know . . . this interferes with the GMs ability to fudge, which is a definite drawback!


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## perrinmiller (Mar 3, 2011)

[MENTION=29558]Mowgli[/MENTION], if you are wanting those in my LPF game, you can ask me in a PM.  But I often roll them on my real dice at home so you won't get any url links.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 3, 2011)

Nah, that's too much trouble for something that's not that big a deal. If you do happen to make the rolls online (and if it's for something where knowing the roll won't give me an advantage) you could post it, but like I said it's just a matter of personal gratification - knowing if my character barely succeeded or blew it out of the water (or barely failed or failed spectacularly) helps me with my mental storyboard .


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## perrinmiller (Mar 3, 2011)

I will say this.  The goblin's average was 8 points higher than the players.  Pari only beat one of the opponents 13 to 12.


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2011)

Hey SK wanted to talk about this here and not fill up the CT.

When you enlarge make sure we not the spot you start in so when you shrink back you know where your character starts for movement. I think you have done a great job keeping on it so far. 

You said the orc should be one more west in the CT but the cut out of Marshan is for when he reverts back (new he was big till the start of his turn but he goes before the orc). I will start putting a dot into the corner that your character grew from to also keep tabs. As shown below.

Thanks

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 8, 2011)

I did some rules checking:

This answers my question on splitting the Sleep spell over two rounds, I think. (Core pg186) It costs 2 Standard Actions.


> Start/Complete Full-Round Action The  "start full-round action" standard  action lets you start undertaking a  full-round action, which you can  complete in the following round by  using another standard action. You  can't use this action to start or  complete a full attack, charge, run,  or withdraw.



This covers the 5ft step after being prone. (Core pg 189)



> You can move 5 feet in any round when you don't  perform any other kind  of movement. Taking this 5-foot step never  provokes an attack of  opportunity. You can't take more than one 5-foot  step in a round, and  you can't take a 5-foot step in the same round  that you move any  distance.



This is how they define movement, I think. (Core pg 186)


> *Move* The  simplest move action is moving your  speed. If you take this kind of  move action during your turn, you can't  also take a 5-foot step.
> Many nonstandard modes of movement are  covered under  this category, including climbing (up to one-quarter of  your speed) and  swimming (up to one-quarter of your speed).
> *Accelerated Climbing*
> 
> ...



So I think you can 5ft step when you stand up, dismount/mount, open doors, etc... since you don't change your square. In d20,  I always  interpreted it that if you don't use your move speed, then 5ft step is  allowed. Dropping prone to fire guns in one round and then standing up again to shift a square is a  common tactic in more modern battlefields (D20 Modern/Future) and I need  this clarified as I might plan to use such tactics with Firvin since  she can cast ranged touch attack spells while prone.


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## GlassEye (Mar 8, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> I did some rules checking:
> 
> This answers my question on splitting the Sleep spell over two rounds, I think. (Core pg186) It costs 2 Standard Actions.




Unfortunately, it still doesn't change the consecutive and uninterrupted requirements.

5 ft. step can be taken during another action.  However, movement while prone is limited to 5 ft. which may prohibit the ability to take a 5 ft. step during the action of standing up since you are still considered prone until you are up.  Still gonna need HM's ruling, I think (though if I were DM I would say no).


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

For getting up it is...

Move Action - Stand from prone
Standard Action - whatever you wish
5' step - allowed (after you stand) as you did not us your move action to move any of your listed speed.

You can crawl while prone - 5' step that provokes an AoO

With the start full round action you are still taking more than one round to cast it.

Cast normally:
Round 1 - Full round action (cast sleep), may 5' step
Round 2 - Spell goes off and you get regular round (move and standard action)

Cast with start action?:
Round 1 - start full round action (cast sleep), move action left. 
Round 2 - finish full round action (sleep spell goes off), move action left.

Why would you do it the second way unless you really need a move action for something.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 8, 2011)

HolyMan said:
			
		

> You said the orc should be one more west in the CT but the cut out of Marshan is for when he reverts back (new he was big till the start of his turn but he goes before the orc). I will start putting a dot into the corner that your character grew from to also keep tabs. As shown below.
> 
> Thanks
> 
> HM



I had figured out that the distance was because I shrunk back down while I was editing the post for a die roll or something.  The three edits before I am finished with my action is getting me occasionally.  Toddy was going to move after his kill, but the map disappeared before I could see to where.  By the time I found it, you had already posted the next action.  No problem there.  I have to be faster or marking my posts as not finished yet.

Marking corners, Yes, Please.  
And marking the attack grid A1 in the northwest corner, and going alphabetical south, and numerically east will make it easier to put in the mini stats, moved to E6, grew to F7 and attacked the creature in F10.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 8, 2011)

Stand and 5' usable.  Noted.  I am sure I will be needing it again.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 8, 2011)

Since GlassEye is looking at an animal companion too, it would affect both of us in our build paths.  
Boon Companion from the Seeker of Secrets?  Available?


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2011)

If that is the same feat from the LPF that Mowgli wanted for Pari I don't mind it at all.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 8, 2011)

Yep.  Same one.  Yeah!!!


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 9, 2011)

Wow, you guys are playing WAY above my pay grade with your builds! Very nice discussion in the CT thread.


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## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

Mine too it seems... I hope the adventure writers have prepared for this. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 9, 2011)

Yep, we have extra powers from gestalt, but hit points and actions per round are still a limiting factor.  The problem becomes more of which of the five possible actions do I choose.  In the orc fight, I should have channeled energy twice.  But if I did, two or three orcs would have still been standing and attacking, and we were more likely to TPK.  The line between average fight and tpk becomes a lot thinner if/when HM adjusts for our talents.  

I have run PFS for a year now.  Season zero was softball scenarios that any unoptimized character can coast through.  I have a 11th level, cleric8/druid2/sorc1 with a 12 AC that only dies if the barbarian in the party is dominated.  Season one was tougher.  Season two modules are outright vicious.  I can name three which are "play down or die" where you have to go in at level 9 for a seventh level mod, or you cannot make it out alive.  I have literally done the "screw the reward, dimension door out and leave" twice now.

Kingmaker which I am seventh level ending book two in right now is kind of balanced, but has several warnings of "if the party is not x level, they should run or skip this encounter until later".  I expect Carrion Crown to be a bit tougher, and it is written with all the new classes and APG as being expected.  So, it should be a challenge, even for us.  

Yes, I am a damage beast, for the first five rounds of a day, and then I drop to half that potential.  The second encounter of the day sees a lot meeker, more traditional me.  The eidolon won't be the all-attack pounce beast.  Those poof in round two or three usually.  I will be spending evo points on defenses, like the acrobatics and perception, because they help the party more.  At fifth level, the ape will have more hit points and do more damage, but Toddy will taunt and fly.  I will be going with the somewhat scaled back approach.


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## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

I see everyone is on what is everyone's choice for next scenario?

a) lvl 1 dungeon room

b) lvl 5 hill giant (think it will live at least three rounds )

c) lvl 5 orcs again two with class lvls

_*feminine voice*_

Please make your selection now. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 9, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> Wow, you guys are playing WAY above my pay grade with your builds! Very nice discussion in the CT thread.



Normally I would like to play at that pay grade, but RL is getting in the way this week.  I have DM duties to take care of as well.  With GE getting busy too, perhaps we can hold off starting another combat until next week. 

I want to look at the stuff SK already wrote and then do some more checking. Cannot believe I did not see Lingering Song, it is not on my list of feats at all and should be. 

Then maybe SK has other ideas.  I have actually never gotten to play a sorcerer or bard in either PF or 3.5ed except running opposition as DM.

Actually playing an encounter, I choose option 3.  Then after we rework builds following that, maybe consider option 1 if we have time.

Laterz.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 9, 2011)

Mowgli:  In the Paizo Blog, there is a little tidbit you may be interested.  They started listing subdomains for all the minor deities.  But, the first article in the series has



			
				Paizo Blog said:
			
		

> But while I'm on the topic of domains and  subdomains, there's something else I want to talk about—Pharasma. Turns  out that nonevil goddesses of death sort of wreak havoc on the domain  system—especially if they're as stringently anti-undead as Pharasma is.  Because pro-undead spells always seem to sneak onto domain spell lists  when you start talking about death and souls and stuff. It's easy enough  to simply not prepare domain spells that create undead, but it still  feels kind of disappointing to me that Pharasmins "miss out" on some  domain spell options. For those of you who want a more Pharasma-friendly  version of the Death domain and the Souls subdomain... behold!*Pharasma-Friendly Death Domain* 3rd-level domain spell: Replace _animate dead_ with _speak with dead_. 6th-level domain spell: Replace _create undead_ with _antilife shell_. 8th-level domain spell: Replace _create greater undead_ with _symbol of death_.
> *Pharasma-Friendly Souls Subdomain* 3rd-level domain spell: Replace _animate dead_ with _speak with dead_.​


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## Satin Knights (Mar 9, 2011)

a, b, and c?  A hill giant and 2 classed orcs, 1 default orc in a dungeon cavern?  At fifth level with the animal companions, we would be 7 vs 4.  That should be a tough fight using most of our resources, but doable.  If we approach coordinated, we win.  If we make mistakes, we could get squashed.

A lone giant is a gang up and crush cakewalk.


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2011)

I think I agree with Perrin.  I have Wednesday then I'm out for three days and I would hate to hold you back but since there are two of us with a crunch this week...  Sunday or Monday starting the next scenario (or even Saturday but I won't be able to post until technically Sunday) works best for me.  Though if you want to npc my character that's fine, too.

As for a selection, I'm fine with C then A if we have time.

As for builds, I don't normally think at that level so the discussion has been a bit of an eye-opener for me.  I'm really getting excited about it now.  The best thing about it for me is that most of the choices we've been discussing still fit the concept I have for Gregori.

EDIT: Oops, took too long posting.  SK's idea sounds fun, too.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 9, 2011)

Two of four are busy already.  I can wait.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 9, 2011)

perrinmiller: Here are a few more tidbits.

A) You have 8 skill points/level.  You are not starving for them, so take the +1 HP for the favored class bonus.  The ranger and rogue will have 7+ each also, so we should have all the skills covered well.  

B) Resistance is a useless spell as soon as you spend 1,000 gp on a Cloak of Resistance.  Switch that for Disrupt Undead which is a no save, ranged touch attack.  The cleric can memorize Resistance for the first month that it would be useful.

C) Replace Sleep with Grease.  The spell is useful far longer that Sleep will be in your career.  It grants +10 to escape grapples when cast on a person.  

D) Language: Auran so you can talk to air elementals.  Or Celestial so you can talk to my many summons.

E) Carry at least one dagger for when you are grappled.  The rapier can work, but a dagger just feels more appropriate.

This character build starts weak and slow.  But, it will eventually surpass the rest of us in damage potential.


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## HolyMan (Mar 9, 2011)

Will start the LvL 5 vs orcs scenario then this SUN nite. We will still have two weeks til the adventure is out (and I will need a day or two with it). So everyone has time to refine their 5th lvl builds as well.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 9, 2011)

Definitely into the Death: Pharasma domain - a far better fit for an undead hating deity, IMO!


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## Satin Knights (Mar 9, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Will start the LvL 5 vs orcs scenario then this SUN nite. We will still have two weeks til the adventure is out (and I will need a day or two with it). So everyone has time to refine their 5th lvl builds as well.
> 
> HM



I am running two PFS scenarios Sunday afternoon, so I will be home and ready to start about 8pm EST.  That should be just in time.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 10, 2011)

SK, if you've got a little time I'd appreciate a once over for my level 5 build.

I generally aim more for RP potential than for optimization - and may want to for this character as well - but I'd like to at least look at more of a power build.

I put in Quick Draw for one of the feats, but was torn between that, Lookout and Improved Initiative. Other options and their implications would be welcome.

The current format for HeroLab's character sheets leaves a lot to be desired, but if you can sift through it I'd be grateful.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 10, 2011)

I also added Firvin's Level 5 adjustments in a spoiler block in the RG thread.  
However, it was after 1:30am when I finished, so it definitely needs a second set of eyes.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 10, 2011)

Mowgli: Here are a few comments.  I have never played the rogue or inquisitor, so these comments may be a bit generic.
A) Put one rank in Appraise.  3.5 had a "untrained appraise" is an auto-miss by 50%.  I didn't see it in PF, but it might be there somewhere.  Raven familiars give a +3 bonus.  What do you get as an oversized raven? 
B) Strip a few points out of survival and spread them around more.  A failed survival roll means you didn't find food for the night usually.  Not critical.
C) Add at least 1 point in Escape Artist (usable against grapples), Sleight of Hand and Ride.
D) Once you learn a spell, it is pretty much locked.  Resistance is worthless once you pick up a Cloak of Resistance for 1,000 gp because it does not stack.  And most of the time if you can pause to cast it, you can find a better way to face the danger.  Replace that with Read Magic.  Then you don't have to UMD just to identify scrolls. 
E) You can replace Light with 110 gp.  Pick a different spell.  Stabilize looks good.
F) Drop Sacred Touch.  Stabilize is a *close range* (25'+) standard action, and Sacred Touch is a *touch* standard action.  Now you have a trait slot open.  Dirty Fighter if you want +1 damage when flanking.  Birthmark for the +2 vs Charm is another good possibility.
G) 2nd level spells: Those are good.  But, I would do Invisibility, Spiritual Weapon, and Consecrate.  I would say take the Cure * Wounds spells every other level.  You are so limited in the spells you can cast, they have to be usable every day.  Spiritual Weapon is a nice first round spell.  It's to hit is BAB+WIS, and it is a force weapon usable against incorporeal foes.
H) That armor looks sweet, but I think the price tag is coming in at 5,400 gp or just over half of your WBL.
I) "Master Work" thieves tools.  That +2 will be needed.
J) The sawtooth sabre and wrist sheaths are from the Adv Armory.  I forgot.  Is that book is on the approved list?  Check with HM.  Should be yes.  All the stuff in the book is cool small items. 
K) If yes, grab the skeleton key from the same book.  It is one extra attempt when we need it.
L) And if yes, Consecrated Weapons look real nice.  I can charge them up with unused channels nightly, and then in the next 24 hours, a hit can release a channel smite against undead.
M) Lookout would require others to take it as well.  So skip it.   If you act too fast in initiative, your flanking friends will not get a chance to move into their flanking positions. But, if you get there while they are flat footed, it is a win.  Quick Draw looks ok.  So, a tossup between Imp Init and Quick Draw.
N) Trap Spotter rogue talent is missing.  With your perception, it is a prime choice.  Without it, you should be declaring every time you are checking for traps.  That is very tedious.  It is worth losing a feat to get it.  Buy the "Eyes of the Eagle" early.  Pushes your perception up to +17.  You miss spotting most traps on a 2.  And you generally see the opponent before they see you.  General rule in an open field, your bonus - their bonus x 10'.  Seeing the enemy on average 120' before they notice you is a huge tatical advantage.  Buy the other glasses that aide disable device too.  Leave your weapons at masterwork a bit longer to pay for the glasses.
O) Load that haversack up with mundane stuff.  Grappling hook, drill, tent, hammock, water skin, wine skin, etc.  If it is only carrying 8.5 lbs, it was a waste of money. 
P) Spend about 500 gp on scrolls of spells you can cast.  Tireless Pursuit, Magic Weapon, Comp Languages, CLW, Delay Poison, Lesser Restoration, See Invis, Ghostbane Dirge.  All are critical when you need them, but not worthy of daily use.
Q) It looks like you are taking a straight rogue.  Take a look at the Scout archetype.  If you can give up Uncanny Dodge, you get sneak attack dice more often.

Well, that was a good list.  Almost all were little tweaks.  Trap Spotter is the only "must have" in my opinion.  You realize you are walking point, right? 

I am going to go have dinner, and then I will look at Firvin.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 10, 2011)

Firvin's turn.
A) Identify: Absolutely not.  To identify a magic item requires a spellcraft check of 15+caster level.  You have +10 already, and as an elf you get an additional +2.  So, you identify a cure light wounds potion on a die roll of a 3.   And four party members get a shot at doing it.  Identify is a spell you buy on a scroll once and carry as a backup incase you roll a 1 some time.
B) Sleep is another dead spell after just a couple of levels.  And it takes a full round to cast.  Drop it too.
C) If you drop Sleep, drop Lullaby.  Replace Lullaby with Open/Close.
D) Spells known are precious.  Taking the Cure * Wounds every other level is enough.  So, drop the Cure Mod.  If you burn all your first level spells, you can use second level spell slots to cast 1st level spells.  
E) Heroism: +2 Morale bonus for 1 person.  Does not stack with the +2 Morale bonus for all with Inspire Courage.  The only thing it has going for it is the 10 minutes/level.  Probably drop.

Replacement Spells:
F) Saving Finale: End a bard song as an _immediate_ action to allow one of the party members to reroll a save.  20%
G) Timely Inspiration: If a party member misses a roll by 1, you can cast as an _immediate_ action outside your normal initiative to give them the +1 to succeed. 30%
H) Vanish: 1st level invisibility.  70%
I) Silent Image: long range illusion that has a duration of concentration and a large area. 60%
J) Blindness/Deafness: medium range save or suck at DC16 fortitude.  Hit casters with it for 75% chance of success.  80%
K) Silence is a keeper.  Long range save or suck.
L) Rage, The second level spell: medium range buff for your party that is concentration + CL in rounds.  70%
M) Gallant Inspiration:  "I missed by 3", roll 2d4=4, "No you didn't".  Another wonderful immediate spell that you can cast on another person's turn so they succeed.  Although, that spell has to be the bane of GMs. 90% 
N) Alter Self: Shape of Mermaid.  Shape of half-orc.  Wonderful utility spell.  50%
O) Blur: 20% miss chance is nice.  But it is a pick up at later levels spell.

The percentages are weighting as to what I would take first over another spell.  The higher the better.  

Feats: Combat Casting should be your third or fifth level feat.  Definitely pick it up by seventh.

Except for the Identify, these are just suggestions.  I kind of tired out as it is 3:45 am, but it is a good start.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks, SK - a lot to look over!

The only thing that jumped out at me is the Lookout - the only thing that really made me consider it was the Inquisitor ability that allows Inquisitors to gain the teamwork bonuses as though their allies have them as well. Being able to get in a full round of actions rather than one action would be nice. But as I said I'm on the fence with that one anyway.

I'll look at the rest and will doubtless be modifying my build somewhat.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 10, 2011)

Thanks mate. 

I will look over the spells.  I think after this, the players that suffer under my DM thumb are going to hate any casters I build from scratch. 

One question though, Combat Casting.  From NWN, I have an impression that it is not that great or necessary.  With 5ft steps, tactically I think casting defensively won't be needed that much.  But what do I know. 

Why do I need by 7th level, though?  Is there a particular reason for that?


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## perrinmiller (Mar 10, 2011)

Questions, SK:
Bard 1st Level:  Vanish vs. Expeditious Retreat.  
I think I can still take Sleep at start as a situational crowd control.  I can change it at level 4 to something else.

Sorc 2nd Level:  What about Stone Call?  AoE with no saving throw allowed.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 10, 2011)

Concentration Checks: There are several situations that require them, and you are a caster/caster.  So you will be required to make more of them than the battle cleric.  At fifth level, you are  CL 5 + Cha 4 + trait 2 + d20 vs a 15 + double the spell level for most checks.  So that is 11+d20 vs 17 to get a first level spell off.  With Combat Casting, that moves to 15+d20 vs 17 or near automatic.  Second level spells are 15 vs 19 and still relatively easy.  If you take damage, you have to make the concentration check at 10 + the damage taken + the level of the spell.  If grappled, it is (DC 10 + the grappler’s CMB + the level of the spell you’re casting) or *lose* the spell.  So, that dimension door out of a grapple (at later levels) is still tricky.  Actually, Grease on your self is the better course usually.  And there will be times you are surrounded or against a wall and the 5' step is going to not get you out of the threatened area.

By seventh level: Crowds and teleport/dimension door are going to be tactics of the enemies by then.  If your concentration check isn't good by then, you are the mouse and they are the cat.

I thought of this after I went to bed.  The first wand you buy is Cure Light Wounds.  That pretty much goes for everyone.  Two fights back to back could exhaust our casting resources for the day.  The wand is the backup we go to as long as we can survive. (even unconscious, the orcs was a perfect example. Just need one person awake.) We need to keep two of the CLW wands in the party at all times.  I have had PFS modules where I have used an entire wand after combat to heal back up.

Stone Call: Good spell.  You already had four good sorc spells, so I didn't pull any others for suggestions.  The Darkvision can be moved to a couple of scrolls at 150 gp each.  Actually before that, Rope Trick!  Being able to sleep without night watches and encounters is amazingly helpful.  And you are the only one who can cast the spell for us.

Sleep is a trap.  Buy three scrolls.  I bet you won't use all three by fourth level.  With the exception of orcs, if they only have 4 HD in their party, we will walk through them in the first round.  Orcs are special with ferocity making them 3 HD each before they fall.  A lone bard in the woods could try to sneak and use sleep.  You have 3 melees in front of you. 

Feats: Lingering Song (1st), Combat Casting (3rd), Expanded Arcana (5th) (take two first level spells)
Your spell list is all over the place school wise.  So, the Spell Focus is not as useful.  Expanded Arcana is a feat you probably want to take multiple times in your career, and always go for the two spells at lower option.

Definitely Vanish.  Expeditious Retreat is a good scroll candidate.  As the summoner, an unfetter followed by exp retreat could make Toddy a 70' charging machine.  Without the unfetter, he could outrun his lifeline leash in less than a round and fall to 1/2 hit points.  In the time to cast both spells, much of the battle would already be finished though.  Vanish also means you are not taking Invisibility at second level, and open up the slot for other good spells.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 10, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> The only thing that jumped out at me is the Lookout - the only thing that really made me consider it was the Inquisitor ability that allows Inquisitors to gain the teamwork bonuses as though their allies have them as well. Being able to get in a full round of actions rather than one action would be nice. But as I said I'm on the fence with that one anyway.




I reread it again.  Far to situational.  You may get a benefit one out of 10 fights.  You have the highest perception, so it will be rare for your adjacent ally to beat you in order to give you a benefit.  And you should be walking point 10-15' ahead of the party.  Weapon Focus(Sawtooth Sabre) will be usable every swing.  That is a ~50 to 1 usability advantage.  There are probably a dozen other feats I would suggest before Lookout.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 10, 2011)

Gotcha. I'll work on both the 1st and 5th level builds  - some of those suggestions need to be started early.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 11, 2011)

*OOC:*


Frakkin earthquake hit Japan! I was in a Skyscraper at the time and  it was NOT fun.  Internet is spotty and you can imagine we schedule is  going to FUBAR'd.  It is after 11pm on a Friday night and I am stuck at  my office because the commuter trains are all stopped until tomorrow at  least. Excuse me if I am slow to respond. 







Thanks for the tips, SK.  I will try to check over the weekend.


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## HolyMan (Mar 11, 2011)

Hey NP be careful stay safe.

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 12, 2011)

Doing up the map for tomorrow nights encounter and need to know if there are an extra companions or such to add.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 12, 2011)

None for me.  Not even Danny the Dung Beetle.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 12, 2011)

Marshan will have a battle llama and an ape.


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## HolyMan (Mar 12, 2011)

Ok standard 5'x 5' for the ape?

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 12, 2011)

No.  The ape will be fifth level, so he is large.  10x10 space and 10' reach.  He has to squeeze through 5' corridors. That is double move cost, -4 to attack, -4 AC.


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## HolyMan (Mar 13, 2011)

Let me know when you have his stats writin up. Need to know his INT and will he be leading the way if you go through a forest or jungle?

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 13, 2011)

In the RG thread, I have Marshan at fifth level in a dndsheets page linked there.  Int 3, and Share Language cast daily.  Toddy with +13 perception and darkvision would take point before Henry.  Henry is backup muscle and intimidation factor.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 13, 2011)

Halal's 5th level build is posted in the RG.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 13, 2011)

I took many of SK's suggestions and updated again.  I think I am ready, but not sure how much time I have given that we are going to have scheduled blackouts here.  Understandable if a few nuclear reactors meltdown.


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## GlassEye (Mar 13, 2011)

Perrin,
I hope you are ok there.  Stay safe.

I'm back home after a weekend of travel and will get things ready to go for our next combat asap.  Gregori will have a medium wolf companion.  No stats ready yet.


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## HolyMan (Mar 14, 2011)

No problems GE hope you had a great time at your competition. I will add a wolf beside your character then.

Ok but Toddy is also carrying all the gear as you travel so I will have it at this juncture he isn't sneaking ahead. And we will start with Perception vs Stealth checks to see who gets a surprise round to do something before Round 1.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 14, 2011)

Toddy is carrying 48 pounds of pack and items for Marshan.  Since he can go to 114 and still be only lightly encumbered, he can carry other people's stuff too up to a point.  He isn't going to slow himself down.
The birdman can see better than the pack mule, so he gets to lead the way.

Always cast spells: Mage Armor on Toddy (6 hours), Mage Armor on Henry (6 hours), Share language on Henry (24 hours).  The Mage Armor spells are cast a minute before starting out traveling for the day.
Ready.


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## HolyMan (Mar 14, 2011)

Almost ten more threads to sift through and a little LPF stuff to do and I will post up to start the combat.

If you want I will put up a placeholder so you can post up your stat blocks ahead of time.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 14, 2011)

HM, can you post up a blank of the map (without tokens on it) and I can add coordinates to it for you?  Or you can email it to me.


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## HolyMan (Mar 14, 2011)

Sure if you can go ahead.

Edit : and I added my "battlemap" Thaks in advance.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 15, 2011)

No problem.  I through in some different terrain ones instead of your battlemap.  They look better and were easier to do. 

I included 2 versions of the well, using different grid lines.


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## HolyMan (Mar 15, 2011)

Great work perrinmiller and thanks for the extras. I have done a little copy/pasting to add the letters and numbers to my map as it seemed easier than making all the tokens smaller. 

They are not straight but are well enough to run with for now.

So update to surprise round (I think the orc Barbarian is the only one surprised ) tonight.

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 15, 2011)

In related news this was in my email...



> A package containing 1 item from Paizo Order #1631403 is about to  ship from the Paizo warehouse via Standard Postal Delivery, estimated 4  to 8 business days in transit.
> 
> The following products are included in this shipment:
> 1 x Pathfinder Adventure Path #43: Haunting of Harrowstone (Carrion Crown 1 of 6) (PFRPG) Print Edition
> ...




I am sooooooooooooooooooooooo excited. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 15, 2011)

You should tell me how you are using your image files and I might be able to help.  I assumed that you were using a background image and moving tokens around on it so the well images should be fine as I posted.

I opted to not go with Inspire +2 in the surprise round as I think most will not be able to effectively use it maybe if they are setting up round 1 actions.  Would the surprise round actually count as a full round for purposes of determining rounds used of Bardic Performance?

EDIT: Sorry if people were planning to charge, but it looked like a good time to hit them with an AoE spell.  I plan to Inspire Courage next round.


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## Satin Knights (Mar 15, 2011)

That was a perfect surprise or first round action.  All the low level orcs should be staggered, only being able to move or attack.  Several of us have reach, and you have just removed 5' steps from the possible actions of the enemy.  So, our chances of making AoO just increased significantly.  Good job! 

Yes, it would count as a round for your bardic singing.

HM: Demon Wolf should be starting with 32 hit points.  4+5+4+5+4 for base hit dice plus 5x2 for CON.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 15, 2011)

Yes, I think they will think twice before hanging back for exchanging ranged combat.  Your readied melee actions waiting for them to come to us should be effective.

I will get the hang of playing a spellcaster.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 17, 2011)

Hey All,

I have had enough.  I have plane tickets to leave Tokyo in the morning  and I am taking my family (even my in-laws) stateside.  I will likely be  back on-line in about 2-3 days, once I arrive, what else am I going to  do with myself.

Wish me luck and I hope to return soon.   

PM


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## GlassEye (Mar 17, 2011)

Safe travels!


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2011)

Good Luck!  have a safe trip. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 19, 2011)

First something to help with background...

Prof Lorrimor is a "know thy enemy, study his ways and turn them  against them if you can" type of guy. I was going to let everyone know a  few facts here and now to help them with their backgrounds.

Facts to help:
- When you reach Ravengro Lorrimor will have been dead for a short  seventeen days (so your character should be somewhere nearby or in the  country) - Prof just moved to Ravengro 5-6 months before adventure  starts.
- Starting about ten years ago (from year adventure starts dates  unimportant for now) Lorrimor was interested in a cult know as The  Whispering Way and sought to learn as much as he could about them over  the years (Your PCs could have been part of this)
- Your association with the Professor could be on going and you may just have been on some new mission or holiday.
- The Professor taught at the Lepidstadt University before retiring to Ravengro.
- Adventure starts at the cemetery the day the Professor is to be buried. PCs just arriving in time to help with the service.

That's what I have for now more info as I get it.

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 19, 2011)

Well the next thing to talk about is I decided that for this group I will play the module as is. No chopping up for fitting into the play time of pbp (as I think this group will post up pretty quick) and will go with using the rules for XP instead of the "goals I usually set". 

I wish to see how this plays out under normal rules and playing. So that means we will use the medium progression and I will reward XP the 1st of each month for that months play.

The Harrow Deck rules listed in the APG do not seem to be a part of this module so must be for others to come. But there is a new rule/quirk that is to be used called Trust.

Trust is rated 0-?? and is a group stat measuring how much the town of Ravengro Trusts this new group of outsiders. The groups Trust lvl starts at 20 and as it goes up you gain game benefits for having a high Trust (if trust is a certain number than a Diplomcy check may be lowered, or not needed, items purchased could cost less than listed prices or higher if trust is low).

Needless to say a Trust score of 0 is bad and when it reaches this point the town will riot against the group. 

I will have your Trust total listed in the opening tracking post and edit links to when you gain/lose Trust.

Start up could be this Tue/Wed if you all think you are ready to go.

I have more to read and maps to make so feel free to work on backgrounds and any links you wish to have between characters. If there are none their will be plenty of time for each of you to get to know each other and develop your personalities as you do.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 19, 2011)

First, I'm VERY excited about this game! Good group of players, good GM, good adventure . . . this is gonna be cool!

I got my copy of the new Inner Sea World Guide in. I've got ideas for Halal's background, but I wanted to wait for the World Guide to see what it has about Ustalav so I can sprinkle a few details in there.

Firvi and Halal have the same campaign trait (Chance Savior) which is gained by happening to be at the right place and time to rescue the Professor from certain death. We've talked about having both of us be there to save him in the same encounter, which would create a small link for our characters but not anything that would give us knowledge of each other - just that we'd seen each other before. perrinmiller's already got his version of the encounter in his background - I'll work my version into his so he won't have to edit.

I might build a little stronger connection to the Professor into my history as well - with the Inquisitor's thirst for knowledge of his foes and Pharasma's hatred of the Undead it should be easy enough to get a natural connection between the Professor and Halal.

Not sure you noticed, but I changed Halal's alignment from TN to NG. Neutral & Chaotic Good are by far my favorite alignments to play, and with a game that promises to last as long as this one I want to be happy with my character.

The school system in which I work is on Spring Break this week, so I should have plenty of time to kick things off!

Miscellaneous Notes: I'm glad you decided to run it 'as is.' The Trust factor seems really cool as well - interested to see how that turns out.


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## HolyMan (Mar 19, 2011)

I figured this group will post up quick enough during combat to not bog the game down so running it as is will work.

Have a great Spring Break here's hoping the weather stays like it was yesterday - 75 and sunny (here)

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 19, 2011)

I am back on-line, see this post.

I too am excited and glad progression is good.  I have yet to catch up on the practice combat yet.  I had to rebuild a laptop I grabbed in the evac to English and it has been slow going.  Hopefully I will catch up tonight.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 19, 2011)

WOW! That is some kind of experience. Glad you made it home safe, and welcome back!


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## GlassEye (Mar 20, 2011)

Gregori still needs gear, appearance, and personality but everything else is done.


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## HolyMan (Mar 20, 2011)

Still reading through but 1/2 done half to remao some things as they have maps in at 10'x10' squares (hope the pdf isn't like that so they are usable).

And I saw that languages might play a small factor. Again not sure what the other adventures entail but for this one someone who speaks Varisian will help out a little. 

Languages spoken in the country are Common, Skald, and Varisian.

So if anyone wants to cover the two native ones would be better than taking one you wouldn't need.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 20, 2011)

I've got all of those covered (and more). Halal speaks bunches of languages . . .


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2011)

Adventure has been read (except Bestiary but the Alchemical Ooze swarms shouldn't be encounter for a while ), plotted out, and I think I saw an IC somewhere. Oh yeah here it is...

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/303249-carrion-crown-closed-group-ic.html

And we are live people.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 22, 2011)

Been giving Halál's background a lot of thought, wondering what strange confluence of events might bring a Tengu to the worship of Pharasma and the profession of Inquisitor . . . as well as the friendship of a renowned Ustalavian professor. I think I've got it all figured out, history (and character) now complete.


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2011)

Will wait for GE who is not on to post up his RP with Toddy, as character interaction will be important in something this long.

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 23, 2011)

Sorry for the holdup.  Wanted to get the post in before I headed off for a stretch in the salt mines but it just didn't happen.


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## HolyMan (Mar 23, 2011)

NP GE it wasn't a hold up actually you had posted today. I just wanted to give you a chance for a little character development. Now Gergori knows Toddy is an "odd" animal so all good.

We are on fast speed for this correct. One post a day if possible - If no posts in 48 hours during combat you will delay or refocus as DM sees fit. Is this alright?

Later as I see tactics I will be more able to determine actions as needed but for now just playing it by ear.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Mar 23, 2011)

HUA! (Heard, Understood, and Acknowledged)


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## perrinmiller (Mar 23, 2011)

Given this crew, that should not be a problem unless an act of God happens. Like a frakkin' earthquake or a nuclear power plant meltdown. 
 And even that doesn't stop some of us. 

48 hours AWOL and NPC the character for that round please, no delays.  That makes the rest of us suffer.  You have my permission to NPC Firvin as you see fit, but more than likely I will give power of attorney to SK if I know.


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## HolyMan (Mar 23, 2011)

Been thinking and I want to catch this before I continue.

Not that I know everything mind you but I believe SK that you maybe playing Toody to smart. Now a 7 INT and a 10 WIS isn't a stupid character but with the actions you proposed it seemed like he had a firm grasp on the situation (after the failed Perception check) and took in some rather good tactics to get himself into position to have your weapons within arms reach.

I surely don't want him to be played dumb it's just this time he was overly smart. If he where that INT he would have stopped when everyone else did because he knew he wasn't suppose to be there and he would have waited to see what was afoot.

Just want to get this out now so if I bring it up again I'm not drawn back to "Well this time you let him do that why not now." kind of thing. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 25, 2011)

Hey,
Tomorrow I head off on a weekend trip.  I don't want to hold things back in combat so feel free to npc Gregori until Sunday night if necessary.  At this moment, he doesn't want to be too aggressive or kill any villagers and will limit himself to nonlethal attack unless the villagers themselves begin using lethal force.
--GE


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## HolyMan (Mar 25, 2011)

Go ahead and post it up if you can GE the remaining three villagers are on the opposite side so won't effect what you do or be effected by it.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 25, 2011)

If we need to pause 24-36 hours when his turn comes up, I am fine with that.  Weekends are normally busy for me and tough to keep up everywhere.


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## HolyMan (Mar 25, 2011)

Good idea I am at work sat afternoon/evening and sun mornings/afternoon.

We have the 48 hr rule so that should work out for this and other times too.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Mar 28, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Been thinking and I want to catch this before I continue.
> 
> Not that I know everything mind you but I believe SK that you maybe playing Toody to smart. Now a 7 INT and a 10 WIS isn't a stupid character but with the actions you proposed it seemed like he had a firm grasp on the situation (after the failed Perception check) and took in some rather good tactics to get himself into position to have your weapons within arms reach.
> 
> ...



Ok.  I will tone him down a bit.  But it went a little like this in my mind.
. * General order: Play the role of a military pack mule in public until he has talked to someone and revealed himself.  Then play the jackass. 
. * Default order: defend Marshan
. * Secondary order: if Marshan ready, move to flank someone
. * Toddy was at the back of the parade, missed perception.
. * Procession stops, people argue. Should of rolled another perception here.
. * Marshan is without his good weapons, so move in front of him to defend.  The "blocking the path" made me think that they were north of the party, not surrounding.  The intention was to move Toddy between the party and the thugs.  The map came later.
. * Also defend the pretty girl Marshan had talked to identified as friend's daughter.
. * Once Marshan has his weapon, free to move or attack.
. * Protect professor's daughter as she is only friendly that is unarmed.  At that moment, only Gregori, Kendra and the professor are in the friend category.
. * Marshan not using weapon in hand, so don't kill.

From now on, I'll throw in more mental commands as they are free actions anyways.


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## HolyMan (Mar 29, 2011)

Totally my fault there guys, had a busy SUN nite and this morning my computer  decided to be sick. I have been keeping the action in a notepad so when  the fight is over I need only copy/paste real quick. But GE's comments  (which I agree on) made me think I should rearrange and add things a bit. 

So grouping things more by that persons actions for the whole combat and such. But still am testing this. Remember this is the first time I am doing this and still not sure how/what to do. Something we all need to get use to is all I think.

I like the way it works in the IC (so far) and I have one post to link to for Experience now too, so also a plus.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 31, 2011)

Ah crap.  Firvin is the face isn't she?  

She's the only one with Diplomacy and I haven't been playing her that way at all.  More like the mistress of pain or a dominatrix.


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## HolyMan (Mar 31, 2011)

That may just be the kind of face for this setting LOL you aren't in the golden kingdom or some other La-La happy land. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Mar 31, 2011)

True, but I keep reverting to her persona being the original LE one that I made into a ranger that had humans for a favored enemy.  Mostly this is in my head and may not have come out in my writing yet.

Probably I should not post Firvin after posting my evil half-fiend over at URPGs. That chick over there is a real b**ch literally, but fun to write. 

Firvin needs to develop her own persona yet and I will figure it out eventually.


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## GlassEye (Mar 31, 2011)

One of the downfalls of using characters over, I suppose.

Seems Gregori and Firvin switched charisma scores this encounter.  Gregori shouldn't be very persuasive but with everyone else conversing with blunt objects I thought someone needed to be a little more diplomatic.  We _are_ strangers here, after all, and it would probably serve us better if we didn't act like everyone was under our command.


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## perrinmiller (Mar 31, 2011)

That was exactly my observation.  Then I went back and checked my sheet, sure enough, I took Diplomacy.  Then I checked everyone else's sheets and found a net average of 0 Diplomacy skill among the rest.

Playing the dominatrix for diplomacy will likely get us in trouble.  But I will wrap my head around a CN face.  She just has to be nicer a bit and I need to remember she doesn't hate humans.


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## HolyMan (Apr 1, 2011)

No I think you did it right pm. Look at the way the Father Grimburrow handled them. Like I said for this maybe stern will get you more than nice. Now not to take away from Intimidate but as I see that as you use that when you start threatening a life and "Dom-Diplomacy" when you threaten to inflict a little pain. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 1, 2011)

Oh my last post was cleaned up after I realized my mistake.  I was posting about getting ready to flog the thugs and enjoy it when your post came through.  Like I said before, I just need to put a little distance between posting Firvin and my evil character to keep her in proper character.

CN characters tend to be bad team players and her role in the party is centered around being a good team player. 

But thanks for the thoughts, guys.  I am feeling my way and I will settle into her skin.  I want to develop her clearly in my mind and learn to play a character like her.


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## GlassEye (Apr 1, 2011)

My comments were as much about learning my own character as they were observations about yours.  Gregori is smart but not very charismatic.  I'm also still figuring out how I want to work his personality.  It may take a little time but we'll get it down eventually.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Apr 1, 2011)

Ditto. Working to figure out the Tengu angle, along with how his background would influence his personality and outlook.


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## HolyMan (Apr 2, 2011)

Ok done for the day but wanted to let you all know big update (perhaps to post?) today around noon. 

It will advance the game along and I think we can have some RP after it over dinner at the Lorrimor House.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 3, 2011)

Been doing some clean up and want everyone to know the following...

I have given your March XP out already and edited it to the RG. I am thinking that I will "collect" the XP all month each month and reward them the first of the next month. Also all XP will be group to avoid people trying to go off and do there own thing. This is a big "as a group" type thing and you should all be concentrating on doing things as a group as much as possible.

I have put in a spot in the third RG post for Misc info and post tracking. Right now it has a link to the Will reading and the books/journal post, for easy finding later on.

I also have been reviewing things we talked about in the OOC and would like if everyone could find the time to post their starting stats in their "extra" character post. It is so when the adventure is over and you receive your 3 extra points to spend we have a base. As we advance and you get more and more modifiers just want it to be around for easy tracking.

Any questions about this or the posts to advance the thread please ask away.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 3, 2011)

Did mine.   I am happy with group XP awards, prefer the teamwork ideals myself.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Apr 3, 2011)

Done, and also a fan of group XP and working as a team.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 4, 2011)

I figure our characters have had some time to do some idle chit-chatting on the way to Kendra's house.  This would help serve as an initial we got to know each other a bit while off camera.

Or do you guys want to role-play that out more?


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## HolyMan (Apr 4, 2011)

That is certainly up to everyone. Maybe everyone will now know everyone else's background and how they knew the Professor?

I wish for this week to do a little RP around the dinner table if you are all up for it. Everyone was saying how they haven't yet fine tuned their characters personalities so I though this would help to get an idea.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 4, 2011)

Couldn't hurt.   We can play it by ear, as long as things move at a decent pace.  If we struggle to post idle conversation, then it will be time to move on.

But if start getting a good chemistry going, one week might not be enough.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 6, 2011)

HM, before too many posts in the IC thread go on, there is a question to Kendra no answered yet.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 8, 2011)

HM, I think I see a read dot in the building the center of the town map.  But did not see a location description to match.  Is that an oversight or do we not know what it is yet?


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## HolyMan (Apr 8, 2011)

Not really same map as from another group with added stuff. I think from the IC you will be finding out what that building is soon enough. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Apr 9, 2011)

Toddy's personality: Smart ass.  He has served as both a govt mule and as a battle beast while Marshan was in the Taldan Phalaxers.  He has gotten into trouble several times in small towns, and even large ones, so they have agreed for him to play the quiet mule who listens and spies on the unsuspecting peasants instead of walking into town as a talking horse.  But once someone has turned their back, a rude comment has a chance of being flung.

body form: Llama.  Kind of a camel, kind of a mule, definitely a pack animal, but exotic and weird enough to require DC 15 instead of 10 to identify the animal type.  But not a dangerous beast like a small dragon.  Just exotic enough to go "what is th..., oh, never mind."  Assumed benign enough to never cause a stir in towns until he wants to.

Now, on the other hand, in large, sophisticated societies, he shows his true vocal and opinionated nature.  Once he was able to purchase a ticket to the opera in Oppara, but they would not let him in.  We spent a few days in jail and a month working off the bill for the damages.

In IC post #43, Toddy was asked to count the number of people who were not visibly shocked by Marshan's spectacle.  It would be nice if he could remember their faces, but humans generally all look the same to him.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 9, 2011)

@SK.  You can abbreviate Firvinianna to Frivin.  It is easier to spell and then you don't have to copy and past the full one with the mismatched font.

Heck, I don't retype her name either, just quoting my last post and deleting everything between her name and her picture.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Apr 9, 2011)

Likewise, I'm not picky about the accent over Halál's name either. If you want to put it in, hold down 'alt' while typing 0225 on the numeric keypad . . . but if no one wants to bother with it I don't blame you a bit!


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## perrinmiller (Apr 9, 2011)

Actually, highlighting his name and copy/paste works okay and keeps the font from changing on that. Probably just shorten his name to Hal for a nickname.  Would have done the same with Firvin, except we figured that might confuse things on speed reading with it being an actual word.

BTW, I was looking back on Marshan's sheet to find what languages he spoke.  Did not find them, perhaps they are not there.


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## GlassEye (Apr 9, 2011)

Gregori doesn't speak elven and will likely become irritable whenever she speaks it to someone in his presence.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 9, 2011)

Gregori is going to irritable a lot then since Firvin will speak to herself in her native tongue frequently.  If it annoys him, she might take the route of doing it on purpose until he gives up on his habit. 

In this case, he probably did not hear it.  With he arm around Marshan's as escort, the murmuring voice would not carry that far.   From behind, if would not have even seen lips moving.

In the future if he wants to call attention to his allies speaking inconspicuously that will potentially make situations awkward without needing them to be.  

Is Gregori going to act stupid in these situations?  If so we will need to be careful to kick him in the shins to keep his mouth shut in those circumstances when keeping secrets from others is more important than keeping him informed of what's going on.


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## Satin Knights (Apr 10, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> BTW, I was looking back on Marshan's sheet to find what languages he spoke.  Did not find them, perhaps they are not there.



I am surprised I missed that.  It was on my dndsheets.com build page. I have added them in to the RG page.  The only two I get are the defaults of common and elvish.  I don't have the extra INT or skill points for more at the moment.


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## Satin Knights (Apr 10, 2011)

GlassEye said:


> Gregori doesn't speak elven and will likely become irritable whenever she speaks it to someone in his presence.



Don't worry.  Toddy will teach it to him.


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## Satin Knights (Apr 10, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> Likewise, I'm not picky about the accent over Halál's name either. If you want to put it in, hold down 'alt' while typing 0225 on the numeric keypad . . . but if no one wants to bother with it I don't blame you a bit!



Yea!  I know some get picky, especially in my PFS sessions where they scribble down a five syllable name and expect me as a GM to pronounce it right on the first try.  If they get miffed, I tell them to lookup the character Zathras  from Bablyon 5.  Most of them get the hint.


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## HolyMan (Apr 10, 2011)

I am about to go and post but before I do here is some rules to help with the working of NPCs - 

This is a simple rule I have used in my RL games and should work really well here in pbp.

There are two types of NPCs Named and Unnamed.

*Named NPC's* are those that I control inclusively, they are introduced to  players as Mort the Baker or High Judge Henville. Players may not  control any actions from a Named NPC.

*Unnamed NPC's* are controlled by both me and the players. They have  titles or descriptions to let you know who or what they are. The baker,  the man in the corner, or something similar. 

Note: That though a player may control a unnamed NPC he may not contradict any personality or actions posted by the DM or another  player. (If a player posts that the cook left in a huff mad at the  group. You can't post that he had a change of heart and came back and  feed everyone, changes like that are left to the DM. And you may not  receive any service or item for free or in return for a favor that your  character performs for that unnamed NPC. All services and items are at  standard rulebook prices with any haggling to be done between player and  DM (with the DM in control of the NPC). And lastly these NPCs may not  be given a name by the player, you must continue to address them as sir,  m'lady, master, etc.

This is all in hopes that we can speed things along. Hate for someone to  post. {{ Walking into the tavern John says hello to the barkeep.}} And  then you wait two days for me to post. {{ Hello, What will you have?}}

That kind of interplay is not truly need if you go up to the same  barkeep and ask if he knows any rumors that is different. But for now  just know that you may control unnamed NPCs to both a) keep the game  moving and, b) and more depth to your posts.

HM


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## GlassEye (Apr 10, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> Gregori is going to irritable a lot then since Firvin will speak to herself in her native tongue frequently.  If it annoys him, she might take the route of doing it on purpose until he gives up on his habit.
> 
> In this case, he probably did not hear it.  With he arm around Marshan's as escort, the murmuring voice would not carry that far.   From behind, if would not have even seen lips moving.
> 
> ...




I find it rude that your conversation is exclusive and I find this post rude.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 10, 2011)

I am not sure what to make of your last OOC post GE. You are very opinionated and are prone to rant when you are miffed.  While I did yank your chain a bit OOC, I wasn't intending to be rude. 

Pretty much all of my comments was directed at how things will be in character and not directed at you personally, though.  We are all experienced PbP role-players here and should be able to not confuse the two, I think.

However to have Gregori blurt out loudly or snap at his allies when his companions are being inconspicuous and trying not have their conversations overheard by NPCs, is going to be a problem under certain circumstances. This is the point I was making and if he is going to persist in such behavior, Firvin would not be happy.  (calling the locals, "yokels" under her breathe in Elven was only to keep them from hearing her insult.)

This is an action that I don't think is too smart on Gergori's part if it hurts our Trust rating or increases difficulty in Diplomacy.  But that  might be perfectly in character.  With his Cha low, I am sure that will  come into play too at times.  So, if you are going to play him having certain habits and foibles, will we need to adjust.  That is all I was getting at.


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## GlassEye (Apr 10, 2011)

Yes, I'm opinionated and I do rant on occasion.  I didn't like your post and stopped after saying it was rude because I didn't want to say something worse.

You aren't without flaws; when someone doesn't play for optimal results in a situation or follow what you consider to be good tactics you can get a little insulting.  For example (and I suppose what irritated me the most):







			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> Is Gregori going to act stupid in these situations?



I mean, really, we walk into a tavern, everyone turns their attention to us, Firvin starts whispering and Gregori is the one being stupid?  It's a DC 15 to hear the _details_ of a whispered conversation, (which Gregori can make about 50% of the time) and probably less to notice that whispering is taking place.

That's all on top of the original issue: that your character's comments were made exclusively to one character and in a language that my character doesn't understand.  That essentially leaves me no opening to roleplay except in the manner that I did.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 11, 2011)

You are right GE, there are times that I should just keep my comments to myself.  I tend to regret it afterwards, and this is one of those cases. 

OOC rudeness aside.  

In multi-lingual environments (which I am living in daily), conversations between people in other languages is generally not considered rude.  These fantasy settings are extremely mutli-lingual as there are so many different species running around with different native tongues.

So my initial reaction to Gregori's snapping was him being rude for no reason.  That is the paradigm that I have.  If someone had done that to me in RL while I was conversing with someone in my family, they would have been given dirty looks for being rude themselves.

However, I do know why Americans (myself being one of them) feel that way in RL, as I have been on both sides of the situation.  As a stereo-type, mainstream Americans are mono-lingual like where I grew up, and whenever people are holding conversations in another language, there is a tendency to immediately think there is something being said about them.  

The rest of the world tends to be more bi-lingual or multi-lingual in comparison and I don't think this bothers them.  I worked in an office with about 5 of us having desks in the same room.  Between everyone, there was fluency in 4 different native languages among us and only two of us were native English speakers. Just because we all spoke English, did not mean that the others were being rude for using a different one.

This is just food for thought so you know where I am coming from.  Gregori's feelings and actions are still perfectly in character to me.


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## Satin Knights (Apr 11, 2011)

My assumptions were that Gregori knows the mission. Being human, he is also separating himself from the "racially disliked foreigners" that he walked in with by having a little racial tiff.  This lets him integrate more with the humans and gather more information from them.  

He is trying to jump the fence on the "us vs them" in the crowd's perception.  That is fine and good.  And it should work fine.  There is just enough static for him to leave the table as he has done and talk to others.  But not enough to cause the crowd to turn on us.  He now gets to take the lead on gathering info on the friendly side of diplomacy with the rest of the crowd.  

Quite likely, PM didn't recognize the ploy as such, and got confused as to motives because the actions work against the "sweet, nice and civilized until they attack us" we were walking in with.

That leaves the three racial foreigners sitting at the table gathering info by perception and possibly confrontational crowd members coming to us while we try to be polite.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 11, 2011)

Hmmm, so true, I never considered he was making a ploy. 

Doing things like that in the future sounds great.  Though, I suggest we write an OOC comment or two to give the others a heads up to avoid unnecessary miscommunication.  I have a few other games where we do this, and the OOC communication helps a lot.

For example, we have a military SPECOPS team with clear ranks.  One guy is playing a Jayne Cobb (Google him if you are not familiar with Firefly TV Show) type character, only more so.  There is always IC tension and conflict between players, but it works because of the OOC explanation.  Likewise the team leader discusses the orders OOC to ensure the other players have consensus when he issues commands.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 12, 2011)

Mowgli just brought something to my attention with his IC post.  I forgot that I made the Sleep Spell as part of the story for rescuing the Professor and did not change it when I dumped the spell for Grease.  I fixed it (minor change).


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## GlassEye (Apr 12, 2011)

Been a long day and I'm tired so I'm gonna try to keep it short.

First, I over-reacted and I apologize.

As for the rest of it, I understand where you are coming from with your description of multi-lingual environment.  It's not quite the same, but I live in a university town with a large number of international students and faculty.  I don't get irritated when people speak other languages around me.  Coupla things though: Tokyo probably isn't equivalent to the situation in rural Ustalav; Ravengro is probably more like a rural midwestern American town.  And there is a difference in being around people who speak other languages regularly and being in a specific group where it's known you are the only one that doesn't speak a language and people speak it anyway.

And in all honesty, the idea of using the situation as a ploy to get in better with the locals didn't occur to me until after my initial reaction.

So, I agree: communication is important and I'll work on that and also work on communicating in a better fashion.  And I'll try not to be so thin-skinned when it comes to jokes and other comments.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 12, 2011)

No worries mate, I had no idea I had ticked you off.  I was probably channeling a bit of Borric too.  

I went back and read what I wrote and realized I sounded like a jerk and overreacted as well.

I need to follow my own rule to wait at least 12 hours or after a night's sleep before posting OOC about being irked over something. But it sometimes is better to get things off your chest instead of letting them fester.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 13, 2011)

@SK, So we are going discuss the weather?  LOL

We gotta be able to come up with something better to RP about.


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## HolyMan (Apr 13, 2011)

I am wondering why RPGing at the tavern was needed instead of the dinner table? 

In related news I just downloaded my free PDF of Trail of the Beast. So if I'm not about much this weekend you know why. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 13, 2011)

I am perfectly willing to just roll the dice for the Gather Information check and move along once Gregori is done.  But I think we need to make a few friends and the guy mixing drinks is a good candidate.

Speaking of this weekend, I will have a wedding to go to and an 18 hour drive to get there and then back again.  I will leave Thursday afternoon (EST in US) so I might be scarce until I get back on Tuesday.


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## Satin Knights (Apr 13, 2011)

I was just drawing a blank for chit chat, and making time for Gregori to do a little human on human information gathering.  Marshan is a soldier with little social grace, and he knows it.  This is the place for the bard to shine, unless we get into a brawl.  That doesn't look to be happening this time.    The tavern was just a test to see if we are going to be fighting with every town folk we encounter.  Marshan has already shown him self as menacing when threatened, and is trying to show himself to town folk as civilized if treated well.

Make the appearance, drink the one drink politely, and leave, checking on the graveyard as we go home.  Marshan is thinking of going in and moving the treant to a different side of the grave just to yank the chains of the locals.  Of course once he starts, he is going to have to sneak out every night to do that. 

If I seem to disappear, my mother went into the hospital and they are still doing tests.  My character sheets should have about everything needed to take my character(s) over for a day or two.


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## HolyMan (Apr 13, 2011)

Well since half the group will be busy this weekend it will give me time to post up what you all discover + an event.

What  I will need though is Gather Info checks to see how diplomatic you are.  If someone wants to aid Gergori they should roll a check and post the  fluff accordingly. I am set for GE to make his Gather Info check and  have Zakor respond about the ghost in the area.

Oh and note: the cemetery isn't on the map it is about 15-20 minutes (walking) north of town. Just so you have your bearings 

So I will need checks and fluff before I can dish out any new info, sorry.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 14, 2011)

Add the last call but am still willing to depart with info as everyone says good night to the barkeep.

Also sorry I was suppose to add in Toddy's yawning comment that all was quiet and borrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrring. But I'm yawning to much myself.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 14, 2011)

HM, it has only been 12 hours and I am still trying to catch up on everything at the moment.  My posting window still has a few hours remaining.


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## GlassEye (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry, long day with very little time to post until now.  Also, I didn't mean to take over the scene.  Gregori's probably the last one to be doing Diplomacy stuff (though I did roll exceedingly well on his last check).


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## perrinmiller (Apr 14, 2011)

Sorry ran out of time tonight.  I added the rolls, but I would have thought there was some time to socialize a bit.  If not, then I can adjust the post, but I think I was vague enough that it could be short or long on time covered.


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## perrinmiller (Apr 21, 2011)

Would a Spellcraft check be appropriate for what happened in the bar?


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## HolyMan (Apr 21, 2011)

Spellcraft DC 0 = That was no spell 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 22, 2011)

I could roll a Knowledge Arcana or any other Knowledge.  If it was more mystical perhaps it falls under Religion?

Given these guys were playing cards when we walked in and there was no magical auras detected, the nature of the incident is not obvious to me.


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## HolyMan (Apr 22, 2011)

It is something to fall back on later and is why I linked it under events. Not something you need to figure out now just something that will help set up/figure out things later. 

A lot of that in this adventure btw.

HM


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## HolyMan (Apr 28, 2011)

Hey all about to post you at the gates of The Restlands and I forgot to tell you about the* Lurker Only sblock*.

Think of it as the part in the book that gives a little foreshadowing for the reader. I saw that we had 1,400+ views for 140+ posts (100 views per post) - someone is lurking out there. And not just Scott. 

And I just wanted to add to the story for them. Will link in the post to the first page and let you all know when you to can read them. Or link them back to where ever we are at the time.

HM


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 28, 2011)

check your math again. that is only 10 views per post. not unreasonable.


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## HolyMan (Apr 28, 2011)

I hate math... Why was it invented LOL 

Thanks Scott.

Still going to give the lurker(s) a fun read as well.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Apr 28, 2011)

Averaging 9-10 views per post in an IC thread is pretty normal.  I checked a few of the other games I am in and they average about 8-9.  But URPGs doesn't get as many lurkers in IC threads as EnWorld.


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## HolyMan (Apr 28, 2011)

That's because you don't have a Scott Dewar about. 

j/k Scott.....


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## perrinmiller (Apr 28, 2011)

Exactly. Scott personally accounts for our average being 1 read per post above normal.   Way to go Mr. Lurker.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 28, 2011)

synonym for Lurking: DeWaring


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## perrinmiller (May 4, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Rules on using the Library as a source to research are as followed.
> 
> - Allows for you to make a knowledge check untrained as if you had a  rank in that skill ( but no +1 or CS bonus) or gives you a +2 bonus to a  check, for researching about the Whispering Way, if you use a knowledge  you are trained in. No bonus to researching Harrowstone.
> 
> - As you can go to other places  that will give you bonuses into researching Harrowstone and The  Whispering Way should you need to.



I have some confusion about these two rules.  Not that I need to worry about untrained with Bardic Knowledge. Does this mean Firvin gets a +2 Circumstance bonus on researching the Whispering Way by using the Library?
These other places to provide bonuses to research, do we know them yet?



HolyMan said:


> All those that wish to go to the temple will need to make a Diplomacy  check to be allowed to "ask questions/review documents" etc. DC 25 and  also takes the entire day. If the check is passed I will post up bonuses  and such.



Is the DC changeable if we improve Trust first?  

I think were were planning to actually RP with the old priest and talk to him.  This sounds like something else, but if it is all just to gather information about the mystery, I am fine with just rolling the dice and posting accordingly.  I don't want to get bogged down in minutia and keep things rolling.

I am wondering what ideas we have to quickly improve Trust by one point.  Particularly if it will make dealing with the temple easier, I would like to do that before we start holing up to just research.  We could ask advice on that from Lorrimor's daughter.


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2011)

The rule about the library is you either get to...

A) Make an untrained check as if you were trained (no modifier)

or 

B) Gain a +2 bonus to your know check if you are already trained in the skill used.

I guess the bardic knowledge would allow for the +2 as it is already the same as A. Even though it list that you may make know skill checks untrained not that it gives you training in them.

______________________________________________________

This part of the adventure would fly by if this were a RL session. As it would be ok Day 1 rolls. Then give out info. Ok Day two rolls. Give out info.
Day three you head to the Temple ok let's see if they let you in.

All this is because things are happening in the background and take days (in game) to get done. After the these creepy things have been perpetrated  than the adventure will truly begin in earnest and the players taking the knowledge they have gained go forth to (do whatever it is you need to do).

This being pbp we are talking months if we play out everyday. Where like I said this would be done in like a half an hour around the table.

________________________________________________________

If you had a high enough trust score the diplomacy check would not be needed. But I think Kendra mentioned all the places that could be made to use for research. The library is the easiest. After that it would be the Unfurly Scroll. 

And you get a +2 to Diplomacy checks when your Trust reaches 26 (good luck with that - other group has missed at least two spots to gain some, not easy).

There will be plenty of RP time with the priest and all the other characters after we get this ball rolling.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 4, 2011)

Okay, I think I get it.  I posted some rolls.

The post on useful information from Kendra, is it linked at beginning of the RG Thread? (If not, could it be? )


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2011)

Will do.

HM


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## HolyMan (May 5, 2011)

Let's see..

Sorry GE but there is no info to find on Nobility I guess your high roll and no info gained would let you know that. 

And the roll in question. To let you know the +2 is not for knowledge checks in general just to Know checks about The Whispering Way. But a 19 is still pretty high.

I have left the door on the day still open in case anyone wishes to add something. 

HM


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## GlassEye (May 5, 2011)

Gregori sucks at research.  My only chance to really make a positive impact is to always aid another.


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## HolyMan (May 6, 2011)

I saw when I checked on your +4 modifier. Don't worry he will have plenty to do when we go dungeon crawling. 

HM


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2011)

Yeah, Gregori ain't no pretty-boy brainiac, that's for sure.  But he gots muskles.


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## perrinmiller (May 6, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> -1 Trust - Note after each day until the adventure is complete the party loses 1 Trust point.



Yikes, that is harsh.  I am still at a loss on how we are supposed to improve that.  

Maybe we are not during this phase and it is just a doomsday ticker if we take too long mucking around.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 6, 2011)

Time to go do some good deeds, I'm thinking! My guess is that to gain trust we've got to be out and about, saving someone or doing something. Just not sure what at this point.

Maybe if we mix and mingle an opportunity will throw itself at us? That's sort of what I was trying with my visit to the church; maybe my timing was bad.


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## perrinmiller (May 6, 2011)

Maybe.  I am not feeling so bad about the dropped coffin anymore at least. 

BTW, I will be heading back to Japan over the weekend and be probably not posting until Monday.  I am trying to get everything updated once before I depart.


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## HolyMan (May 6, 2011)

Save trip to you. We will be here.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 9, 2011)

Hey guys,

I returned to my office yesterday  only to be laid off. It looks like the natural disaster has put the  writing on the wall in my little office and they realize that the SALES  people cannot do their job.  So they need to reduce costs by cutting the  senior engineer (keeping the junior guy that has only been there 3  months).  No one every says management is smart.  I would have waited a  few more months to ensure the junior guy's at least could do the job  first.  Anyway, that's what I get for skipping town under the threat of  nuclear disaster.

Not sure what that will mean for the future of  my gaming, but it has definitely put a damper on my creativity for the  near term. I expect that I will actually have less time for playing in  the longer term as I no longer have my iPhone to keep up on things and  cannot spend as much time in front of a computer at home as I could  working.

I have not been able to catch up since I left Stateside yet, but hope to in the next few days.

-PM


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## GlassEye (May 9, 2011)

Sorry to hear that.  I hope it doesn't take too long to get back on your feet.  Life, I mean; gaming will be there whenever you're ready for it.


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## Scott DeWar (May 10, 2011)

I personally understand the taxing effort of job hunting. worry not about us. we can wait, or move slow.


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## HolyMan (May 10, 2011)

WoW (how I hate real life) Sorry to hear and I hope you everything turns out for the best. (New job new opportunities and all that)

The games will be around so no worries there. Just get your feet back under you and post as you can. 

Success in all you do perrinmiller and GOOD LUCK!

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 10, 2011)

Thanks guys, I have good family support here in Japan and back in the States if it comes to that.  I am catching up on my gaming tonight, slowly but surely.


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## perrinmiller (May 13, 2011)

Were you waiting on SR  to post before answering, HM? 

In this scene, if we  answer them and then ask NPCs questions in return, I would prefer an answer sooner instead of  waiting for all the players to post beforehand.  That is how a conversation normally works.  Peppering a person with answers to a question from several people usually annoys them when they don't get a chance to answer the first person.


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## HolyMan (May 13, 2011)

I usually take and break up the reply. Quoting in the questions to have it read more like a story. 

But yes I would like everyone to post - before moving on - so I know they have checked in and know what is going on.

Even if it is a non verbile post IC or a My character has no response at this time will wait for an update, kind of thing here in the OOC.

Going over to the IC next.

HM


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## Satin Knights (May 13, 2011)

Before the sheriff and priest leave, Marshan has a couple of blunt questions to ask, if someone else hasn't beaten him to it by then.  He is waiting for the sheriff to finish his questioning, before starting his own.


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## HolyMan (May 19, 2011)

I have gotten the third installment of the adventure "Broken Moon" and was thinking of GE's character.

Well there is a good chance someone going through this game would contact lycanthropy. My question is how are you playing Gergori? A natural born lycanthrope who wishes to be rid of his curse? Already afflicted but keeping in in check and almost under control?

With the encounters listed your character may know some of these werewolves or at least about them.

There's one group called the Demon Wolves who are past evil (their leader Adimarus Ionacu is a fiendish human natural werewolf fighter 4/anti-paladin of Jezelda 3) and Gergori could have crossed paths with them before.

Depending on what you wish to do character wise I can give you some background of the werewolves of the Shudderwood to help.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 19, 2011)

Hey guys, I think I might need some Diplomacy Aid Another assists.  With my 19, we could be 2-3 shy of the Father's DC to improve attitude.  He certainly seems unfriendly and probably has some Charisma bonus.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 19, 2011)

Done.


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## GlassEye (May 19, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> I have gotten the third installment of the adventure "Broken Moon" and was thinking of GE's character.
> 
> Well there is a good chance someone going through this game would contact lycanthropy. My question is how are you playing Gergori? A natural born lycanthrope who wishes to be rid of his curse? Already afflicted but keeping in in check and almost under control?
> 
> ...




When I first came up with the idea of Gregori and his family curse the idea was 'How do I play a lycanthrope that _isn't_ a lycanthrope?'  In play, though, his curse is more madness/possession than lycanthropy though there are obvious similarities.  I don't think he would have any special knowledge of werewolves or were-groups though it is possible he could have run up against them in his researches.  If you have ideas that you want to use that require some modifications to Gregori/Gregori's story I am open to the idea.


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## HolyMan (May 20, 2011)

No your idea is a good one GE. Perhaps Gergori thinks it is lycanthropy and after adventure #3 will come to learn it is something more. And then we can go from there to developing it.

HM


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## Satin Knights (May 20, 2011)

Oops, I forgot to check here and missed the aid another request before it was too late and the priest was out the door.


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## HolyMan (May 20, 2011)

Is all good you could have gotten him moved another notch anyway. At least the group got the one. So I posted him up as indifferent.

HM


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## HolyMan (May 21, 2011)

Ok where I believe we are at some planning stages. This can be done both RP wise and OOC wise. 

I just need the group to decide on a course and then I will be able to advance things along.

Going to list some facts here for you the players since it has been a "long three months" for the players and a "short three days" for the characters.

- Your friend Professor Lorrimor died while exploring Harrowstone prison. This happened twenty days ago as of the recent game day (Day three). Due to an entry in his journal the PCs do not believe it was an accident (as everyone else thinks it was).

- He wrote that The Whispering Way were interested in someone who was held in Harrowstone. Possibly someone who died in the great fire as a "living" person would not be of interest to The Whispering Way.

- Harrowstone has been abandoned (and said to be haunted) since the great fire. The most notable restless spirit is that of the late warden's wife - name unknown at this time.

- Also of note is that the prison held very dangerous criminals at the time of the fire. Getting information on the prisoners could lead to possible answers.

- Recent vandalism of the Harrowstone memorial has the local sheriff on edge. Looking into it might bring some good will from the town towards the group. (i.e. Trust)

- A natural zombie was discovered and dealt with at The Restlands. What caused this is still unknown but it does not bode well if evil is gathering in and around Ravengro.

- If the party wishes to explore the Harrowstone prison they might want to first check into one of the crypts at The Restlands first. The professor wrote that there was items kept there that would be useful against the spirits of Harrowstone.

- So far no sign of he Whispering Way has been discovered in Ravengro. And with the town being so small if they were about it would be almost impossible for someone not to know if strangers are about.

Ok hope that helps and recaps everything.

Once you all have decided on what you wish to do on Day Four, I will advance the thread. For now a little RP/OOC discussion on your next step.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 21, 2011)

Thanks for the recap, very useful. 

I think we should do the Memorial investigation first, if it is possible to make headway on it.  Then try to pursue the Restlands issues (Zombie and Crypt exploration).

We do have a few places in Town we haven't been yet I thought, but not sure if they are necessary to check out at this time.


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## GlassEye (May 21, 2011)

I'm in agreement with that.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 21, 2011)

Works for me as well.


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## Satin Knights (May 21, 2011)

Agreed


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## HolyMan (May 21, 2011)

Sounds good to me.

BTW current time of day in game Around 3ish. Dinner is at 5 

I think a normal morning goes something like this

*Wake UP* 8-9: Adventurers don't keep "regular hours" so sleeping in is probably normal for them. Probably went to bed around 11-Midnight.

*Breakfast *9-10: This also includes prayer, formula book study, etc. When you get into higher lvls it will probably be 9-11.

So the two men were there for about four maybe five hours or so. Remember I cut out all the "extra" storytelling in the IC because the sheriff was telling you things you already knew. (DC you have already gotten).

I'm sure he added in stories or tales, and the PCs probably asked some questions here and there, but for relative info it is not needed.

Just wanted you all to know what time of day it is. I know I posted up something about time flying by.

HM


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## GlassEye (May 23, 2011)

HM, I haven't looked at options for the Alchemist in Ultimate Magic but I was wondering if you would entertain the notion of, perhaps, allowing edits to our character builds.  I'm not even sure if there is anything I would find suitable, only that I have the feeling bombs don't fit Gregori's concept too well (don't even know if there is anything that trades out bombs).  If the answer is 'no' I'm perfectly fine with that; just thought I'd see what your opinion was on the matter.


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## perrinmiller (May 23, 2011)

Oooo, that would really bring up interesting issues.  With both of my classes being arcane I haven't even glanced at what might be available.

Since this is going to be running quite long, we even have time for the Errata to come out before leveling too far.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 23, 2011)

I've glanced at the Inquisitor - there's some stuff that looks promising, but I haven't really looked hard at it so I don't know if I'm interested.


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## HolyMan (May 23, 2011)

Hmmm I have looked over very little of my copy so far as i have had a lot of other stuff to do and was waiting for a day off work to dive into it.

Said day is tomorrow/WED so will get into it then.

I am up for anything that helps with the concept of a character. And think if we have things established before the first level up that would be for the best.


HM


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## Satin Knights (May 24, 2011)

I sent GE an abbreviated copy of the Vivisectionist, Internal Alchemist, and Chirurgeon in a private message.  All three look like they could be combined.  The enworld internal mail limited me to 5,000 characters, so I skipped a few of the boring details.  The Vivisectionist looks specifically designed for Gregori.  If he is dropping bomb use, then many discoveries are unneeded.  So, replacing discoveries with secondary feats with the Internal Alchemist is a win.

From my first reading, the bard gains nothing really interesting where I would take it.  The summoner gets some cool stuff, but I dont' know if the group can handle a second Toddy.  I haven't looked at the inquisitor yet.


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## GlassEye (May 24, 2011)

Thanks!  I'm still reading/absorbing...


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## Satin Knights (May 24, 2011)

If you need the full texts on a section, I can send that as well.


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## HolyMan (May 24, 2011)

So I should advance the thread with the group following the tracks correct?

HM


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## Satin Knights (May 25, 2011)

Three out of four are ready, and I don't think our inquisitor is going to wander off on his own, so yeah, I think we are following the trail.


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## GlassEye (May 25, 2011)

Satin Knights said:


> If you need the full texts on a section, I can send that as well.




I appreciate the offer but I've now picked up a copy of the pdf.


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## perrinmiller (May 31, 2011)

GE, WR, & Mog; 
Sorry, real life has gotten in the way and my mind is drawing a blank creatively on what to say to this guy.  Any comments or ideas OOC will help as I try to write something tomorrow.


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## HolyMan (May 31, 2011)

That sounds about right in RL. You bluff someone and when it works you are caught off guard as what to do next LOL.

HM


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## GlassEye (May 31, 2011)

He lives fairly close to the statue.  You could ask if he saw or heard anything that night.  Gauge his reaction to the question.


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## HolyMan (Jun 1, 2011)

Well Congrats gang I just did XP for the month and you are now a 1/4 of the way to 2nd lvl. 

I was thinking that perhaps to help speed up the process of a very slow process I will be giving out RP/participation XP every 6 months.

This bonus XP will be given out April 1st and October 1st every year and will consist of 25% of your needed XP to gain whatever level it is you are trying to obtain.

I don't see this as to much of a problem as the XP system calls for such rewards here and there (I will just be collecting them and then posting them all at once). And say you are still LvL 1 on Oct 1 then you would only be getting 500 XP for 6 months hard work and fun. I think that is about right.

Any questions?

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 1, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> GE, WR, & Mog;
> Sorry, real life has gotten in the way and my mind is drawing a blank creatively on what to say to this guy.  Any comments or ideas OOC will help as I try to write something tomorrow.



Job hunting crap prevented higher level thinking last night so I was stuck creatively.

I will work on Firvin first this time. 

EDIT:  The bonus XP sounds good to me, Medium progression is just so slow as it is.


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## HolyMan (Jun 8, 2011)

Just need a survival check from are trackers (+2 from Firvin) to see if they find a useful trail among the many.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 8, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Just need a survival check from are trackers (+2 from Firvin) to see if they find a useful trail among the many.



Is it too late to Aid Mowgli's first one?


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## HolyMan (Jun 8, 2011)

Was just thinking of using that roll since it was a tracking check and not a search check.

Will update shortly.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 8, 2011)

*OOC:*


We're starting up our summer program this week and so far it's kicking my ass - I'm working 10 to 12 hours a day at work, then doing paperwork at home in the evenings. So I'm having a hard time keeping up right now. I expect to have time Friday to catch up some, and hopefully I'll get into a better rhythm at work and next week won't be so bad . . .


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## Satin Knights (Jun 9, 2011)

Friday and Saturday I am the PFS coordinator for a local convention.  So, I may not be posting those days.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 9, 2011)

It's okay by me to wait a bit and take it slow.  Job hunting and busy weekends are taking their toll on my time (and mental energy) too.


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## HolyMan (Jun 10, 2011)

How about we take the weekend off here and we pick things back up SUN nite/MON morning (for those of us on the other side of the world ).

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 10, 2011)

Fine by me, it's GE's and Mog's turn anyway.


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## GlassEye (Jun 10, 2011)

Silly Perrin!  There's no turns... except in combat.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 10, 2011)

LOL.  

I am used to games lately when everyone gets a chance to post before we go again.  Kinda thought that's how HM was running things.


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## HolyMan (Jun 10, 2011)

Which is correct on your part perrinmiller. 

I like to think of it more as a check in, than a turn though.

I don't want to bull rush ahead and not give someone the time to react to something (unless it's been like 5 or 6 days), that they may wish to. I feel better when everyone posts IC or OCC before I post up.

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 10, 2011)

True and true.  I'm finding I don't have much to contribute at this juncture, hence my relatively short and somewhat sporadic posts in this game of late.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 10, 2011)

Maybe a little weekend break to recharge creatively on these characters are just what we need.  Firvin always takes me more mental effort that ripping out posts for Borric.  His are easy, except for trying to decide on euphemisms and substitute words for his foul vocabulary.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 14, 2011)

Who is Marshan talking to?

It comes across as insulting and is an opinion that should have been expressed (days ago RL) before we got the Sheriff involved.  Particularly if he is going to insult his companions in front of an outsider.


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## HolyMan (Jun 14, 2011)

I think Firvin.

I think this is a way to try and generate trust. Firvin had said he might need "put down". And looks like SK wants Marshan to be the good cop to the half-drow's bad.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 14, 2011)

All well and good, but this is not an interrogation of a suspect. It was Gregori's idea from earlier and comes across with a tone of condescension and back stabbing towards Firvin when in front of the sheriff.

It would help if there was descriptive text to go along with the spoken words to put things in context.


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## HolyMan (Jun 14, 2011)

Do you wish Firvin to address it IC?? This is the only game I could update but will wait.

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 14, 2011)

I plan on jumping to conclusions a lot.  The most horrible, gruesome, cliched conclusions I can think of.  I expect I'll be hearing that quite frequently and I'm not bothered by it.  I prefer to think it was directed to Gregori despite its conversational placement since he's repeatedly imagined the worst outcome in a couple of situations now.  If it was directed to Firvin it's only because she was sucked into his whirlpool of paranoia.  Ustalav must be getting to her.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 14, 2011)

Before we went an got the sheriff, we discussed this and appeared to have a consensus.  Firvin voiced the resulting opinion of the group's and then was essentially called stupid or foolish by her companion in front of the Sheriff.  

This is what has my panties in a bunch.  Not the opinions of either character, since Firvin really did not care either way.  But this is the second time the face has had a companion stab her in the back or pull the rug out from under her with words in front of an NPC.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 15, 2011)

The "There you go jumping to conclusions again." was to Firvin.  You don't go, as the new stranger in town, telling the sheriff, "Unless the priest can perform a ritual to cure him,  we are afraid that he will have to be put down for the good of the  community." about someone he has lived around and known for quite a while.  The sheriff is going to make you enemy #1 for the whole town and you are likely to be hanging from a rope by nightfall.

Firvin needed a verbal slap in the face for her (paraphrasing) "We don't think this guy splattered blood and did the graffiti.  But, we are not sure, so you should kill him."  That bloodthirsty disregard for life needed to be beat down or all of the party would be beaten down with the next GM's post.  

And to that particular NPC, I have already established that I am the "blunt, no BS, straight answer" person, while our lady speaks with a measured, silver tongue that may, or may not, not speak the whole truth, but she is too skilled that one is never sure. 

The rest of my statement was to everyone in attendance.  The sheriff and us.  It could have even included Geb, but I don't think Firvin's statement just before would have been in front of him, so mine would not have been.

A) We can reasonably assume as fact that the blood is of the rat. 
B) The perpetrator walked from the barn to the monument.  The trail was found.
C) Geb is kind of dumb, and the "assumed enemies of the Professor" are rumored to be a bit more intelligent than him.
D) The GM's  "So either the man they spoke to is a great liar (doubtful) or he did something he doesn't remember doing." isn't the only two possibilities.  Someone else using the barn while Geb was asleep is a possibility, as I said.
E) Not stated, but another point, Geb is an easy patsy because he was public about attacking us before.

Therefore, we know, whoever made the mess, did their prep work in the barn.  We know it is rat's blood, and a humanoid didn't die in the process.  We "know" nothing more than that.  Firvin's wild statement should have prompted the sheriff to draw his sword on us.  If you don't like my attempt to diffuse the situation, don't make such explosive statements to NPCs on behalf of the party.  If you had said that Geb might have been controlled without his knowing by magic, then I would not have stepped in.


F) I took Gregori's "Or some moon-tainted beast" statement as just general feral, gruesome nature.  Not an intended course of action. (by the way, I like it)  He even decided it wasn't the prudent action two posts later.  

Firvin wants to be the face of the party.  That is fine.  Don't make wild statements that push us into fights with the law or good guys, and you can do that job.  And last time I got chastised for speaking up, I had actually earned a trust point, instead of possibly losing one.  

-Satin Knights


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## perrinmiller (Jun 15, 2011)

All of those conclusions are valid points and should have been brought up before we got the sheriff. 

And you are the one that posted to go get the sheriff, with a one-liner to move things along.

But whatever dude.  I don't care any more.  Unless we need to roll dice for Diplomacy checks someone else can do the talking, I never intended to be the face and did not make a personality to do that job anyway.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 15, 2011)

Actually, I am mad as hell right now.  

The mere fact that SK decided that my character needed a verbal slap in the face at all is unacceptable to me.  There is an OOC thread to tactfully deal deal with issues like this and work as a team.

It should have happened the first time and definitely should have happened this time. 

If he thought I made a mistake, the polite thing to do would have been to point it out and I could have edited it before he posted.

I did not need a run down of the arguments for other explanations.  I never disagreed with the conclusions Marshan made.

I object to the delivery and discourtesy.  And now, I believe I was called stupid in not so many words.


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## HolyMan (Jun 15, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> Actually, I am mad as hell right now.
> 
> The mere fact that SK decided that my character needed a verbal slap in the face at all is unacceptable to me.  There is an OOC thread to tactfully deal deal with issues like this and work as a team.




The party has only been together for about four days now. Inter-party "drama" should be happening I believe till each character gets to know the other. The OOC is for players and I believe SK was playing his character and thus the comments were placed in the right spot.

SK has posted his character is a straight shooter and I take him also for a no-nonsense type. Marshan probably believed Firvin's comments a little over the top. SK should have posted that here if true. It is always best to know what a new character is like and is thinking of the others (and is why I wish players would post what teh character is thinking from time to time in the IC).

Right now the team isn't a team but a group of random people with their own goals (and a minor common one), who go about things there own way. Soon as the characters learn about each other they will be a true team in battle and when things like this RP come about. This takes time RL - so you know it will take triple that for pbp.



> It should have happened the first time and definitely should have happened this time.
> 
> If he thought I made a mistake, the polite thing to do would have been to point it out and I could have edited it before he posted.




And that is defiantly not how I wish things to work. Each of you is to play true to your character (as you and SK both did in my opinion). The game is still young you all are (as best as I can reckon) a little less than a 1/4 of the way through the first module, and I just got the forth one in the mail. Too much to do to let a little verbal sparring slow you down.

I see what SK did as a way for their to be some inter-party RP later. You need to decide how Firvin took the comments and then RP them out. I'm hoping for a little friction now and then. And as you progress through the AP I'm sure the characters will grow into a strong team.



> I did not need a run down of the arguments for other explanations.  I never disagreed with the conclusions Marshan made.
> 
> I object to the delivery and discourtesy.  And now, I believe I was called stupid in not so many words.




When you say "I was called stupid" you are referring to you the player correct? It is bad in the posts when things get merged between character and player. And if you are I don't see it. SK was referring to Firvin's actions the whole time in his above post and thus I hope how Marshan viewed them.

Now if you were referring to Firvin being called stupid by the explanation, she doesn't know what is posted in the OOC. As far as she knows Marshan has not lied, embellished a story, or tried to keep a secret since she meant him. 

Three things I believe Firvin does by reflex now and doesn't even know she does them anymore.

Until the characters learn more about each other I suspect there will be more inter-party drama for the next little bit. As it should be.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jun 15, 2011)

Let me try this again.  Marshan heard Firvin tell the sheriff the evidence, recounting 1, 2, 3, we are assuming 4 and suggesting a course of action 9.  Marshan said wait a minute, we only know 1, 2 and 3.  He didn't use "Shut up wench! You got it all wrong!"  He used "There you go jumping to conclusions again." which signifies the large leap between 3 and 9 that shouldn't take place, and needed "immediate retraction" in front of the sheriff before the sheriff turns on us.  Then PM got upset about this.  I am not intending to insult PM.  I am not intending to upset Firvin.  But, Firvin's comment went way too far and should have started a fight that has no purpose and long term problems for the party, as far as Marshan saw it in the moment.  His tone was not mean or condescending at the time, but "her perceived direction" needed to be shut down quickly.  When Marshan wants to be insulting, he will be perfectly clear about it.

I, SK, am assuming that once a statement goes into the IC thread, it is live and doesn't get re-edits unless there is a rules issue or swift/immediate action by someone that changes the statement mid sentence.  In other words, it was blurted out and we deal with it, even if it was inconvenient.  If the group wants something different out of me, tell me.  I am the relative newbie in the group.

Firvin wants to be the face and do the talking.  That is fine.  Marshan respected that with "Marshan enters the house, respectfully nods to the man, then follows the orders of the _woman in charge_ and begins silently searching."  But, he is not always going to be silent, and will not hesitate to interject if he thinks it is necessary, or he thinks he has something to add.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 15, 2011)

Though I still get a little uncomfortable with it (I'm a 'peacemaker' by nature) I've been in a few games now with a good bit of inter-character friction, and I've grown to like it. At least in limited doses. So long as everyone keeps in mind that the ultimate goal (OK, the goal for _me_ at least) is to form into a strong party over the course of time I think it's great. Makes the overall story stronger, and gives some rich background to refer back to later in the game when we're looking for stuff to say.

I've always been a fan of posting character thoughts IC - it seems like a great way to develop the character in a way that lets other players in on the process while not requiring them to modify their characters' responses.

I do think that posting OOC about actions to alleviate misunderstandings is excellent practice. The most limiting thing about PbP (IMO) is that it eliminates the nuances of inter-player communication that FtF gaming allows.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 17, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> I do think that posting OOC about actions to alleviate misunderstandings is excellent practice.



 That is exactly the point.

I am still upset about this and refused to even read threads from this game until I could make the time and be calm about it. And nothing I read today has changed my mind towards the issue.  

This all comes down to building team chemistry between players (not just the characters) in the long run.  And I don't feel it. 

Right now I don't feel like being face at all.  I never intended to fill that role either, it just worked out that way.  I really never wanted it, and the way it is working out has been very frustrating.

Most of the time, everyone sits back and puts the burden on my shoulders without much assistance.  Then out of the blue, I get blind sided by a post that completely takes over or verbally slaps my character in the face.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 17, 2011)

Yeah, we've got a little ways to go yet in the 'team cohesion' department. We're still settling into party roles, and whenever we have the chance there could be a little more IC stuff put out there to make sure we're all on the same page before we start interacting with NPCs. I think that's part of the group formation both IC and OOC.

I suppose Halál could step into the 'face' role . . . possibly not the best fit, as he's of a very plainly different race and has only an average charisma, but we could make it work. I plan to boost his charisma some over the course of the game.

Priest/Spy/Diplomat for Pharasma is sort of how I envision him developing. Right now he's keeping his beak shut (for the most part) and his eyes open, but that could change.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 17, 2011)

SK is keeping his mouth shut other than "I will try better next time. I'm still a newbie at the PbP." in order to let the issue die out.


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## HolyMan (Jun 19, 2011)

Wish to let people know that no post in the IC is "in stone". I don't like for to much editing but a person can be called on to wait or hold up if it looks like they are doing something your character wouldn't wish for them to do.

Biggest example I can think of now is Marshan going to get the sheriff. I wasn't sure if you all were still going to see about catching someone in the act of desecrating the statue (as was voiced by Mowgli's character). And thus paused before and after finding the rat.

SK posted - Toddy and Marshan go and get the sheriff. You should leave room for others to interject. Better to post Toddy and Marshan will go get the sheriff if no one objects. Thus giving the others a chance to post IC or OOC if the idea is ok with their character. And then I can advance the thread.

Should try and be a little open ended so things can be molded as to what the majority is thinking. 

Also I will usually give a day for something like that before I update if someone does wish to post a "No wait a second." as someone is leaving or what not.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 19, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Not sure what it is you are looking to get at The Unfurly Scroll but let me know what you are looking for.



Alendru Ghoroven, a retired wizard-turned-teacher,  teaches  reading, history, and math, as well as beginning magical theory. 

We had not been there yet to see if he knows anything.  I only paused outside the place in case there was a description of it in the Module that you could post. 

Ultimately I could be rolling Diplomacy to see if he will become helpful and knows anything about the missing pieces in our knowledge quests.


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## HolyMan (Jun 20, 2011)

Think I gave you all the info from the module. Up to us to describe the place and give it character.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 20, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> I suppose Halál could step into the 'face' role . . . possibly not the best fit, as he's of a very plainly different race and has only an average charisma, but we could make it work. I plan to boost his charisma some over the course of the game.
> 
> Priest/Spy/Diplomat for Pharasma is sort of how I envision him developing. Right now he's keeping his beak shut (for the most part) and his eyes open, but that could change.



Actually, the best solution is to not have anyone as designated spokesperson.  Some groups use a designated "face" to make them do all the work of NPC interactions and they sit back and play anti-social strong silent types (not pointing fingers at you guys, so don't take offense). You guys are better players than that. 

For example Fury and Borric have no great skill in Diplomacy but we don't sit back and let the pretty lass do all the talking.  We participate in our own way and hope our role-playing doesn't have negative impact with our gruff mannerisms or we make sure that we don't cross those lines when it is important.  We just need the Charismatic Diplomat to be able to roll her dice to haggle and improve attitudes.

This game should be no different.  But with my posting frequency, I tend to jump on things faster quite often.  However I am not going to approach things like Firvin is the spokesperson any more.  Much of my frustration is of my own making. 

Also I am making it too difficult on myself in trying to shoe horn her persona into a CN package of a Bard.  Stupid me I thought she could not be a Lawful alignment and went with that alignment change.  Honestly, I don't really know how to play CN characters and enjoy them.  I tend to be too much a team player and it comes out in IC flavor.  I am going to shift her alignment to LN, since the original character concept was LE and probably won't work.  Realistically, you guys might not even notice a change. 

Even though you guys are not high in charisma, I would expect that you would still take 1 rank in diplomacy on leveling up to get the class skill bonus if nothing else.   So down the road we will have more than one person able to do the skill checks with decent chances.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 22, 2011)

I plan to take diplomacy eventually.  Being limited to two skill points a level kinda hurts.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 23, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Going to list some facts here for you the players since it has been a "long three months" for the players and a "short three days" for the characters.
> 
> - Your friend Professor Lorrimor died while exploring Harrowstone prison. This happened twenty days ago as of the recent game day (Day three). Due to an entry in his journal the PCs do not believe it was an accident (as everyone else thinks it was).
> 
> ...



As a reminder, I looked this up before posting yesterday. That was task #2 we decided upon.

Personally, I think (OOC) exploring the Harrowstone Prison is likely beyond our first level capabilities and requires a level up first.  Though I could be wrong.  But still there are research things yet to do before hand.


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## HolyMan (Jun 23, 2011)

That was an event btw. Events are ways to spice up the "growing threat" as it starts to take hold in and around town. Tension builders I would say.

You all are half way to second level and there is nothing stating that you need go to Harrowstone and tackle everything it has to throw at you before you could rest/regroup. Always remember the module was built for around the table and most groups would have completed this in a month of weekly sessions. 

Nice using the CT btw.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jun 23, 2011)

As to the zombie, we don't know which grave he crawled out of.  We can find that out by asking the priest or sheriff.  After three days, the undertaker has most likely filled that hole back in.  So, if we are out there at night, digging up a grave site, and using light to see by, because only Toddy can see in the dark, we are going to be very easy to spot.  We are also going to be looking very guilty of something.  If we are just wandering the graveyard, waiting for another zombie to pop up, we are probably wasting our time.  There has not been a second one reported in the last three days.  I think that ship has sailed.  If you want to go back to wait for another zombie, banking on the "because the fates have written it so, into the module." we can.  I think it would be a waste of time, and we are burning a trust point a day. 

I am for walking up to the big trap that is the prison, poking it with a proverbial 10' pole, and then hitting anything that moves. OK,  maybe spend a couple of hours at the hall of records first, and then go to the crypt to get the weapons/tools. Something interesting will happen there.   Then go after the big trap of the prison.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 24, 2011)

Hmmm, it would appear that it is not worth investigating then.  I was not intending to look into things by digging up graves nor running around the graveyard without permission.  I never said to do it that way. 

If we spend a day researching, we can use the night to skulk in the Restlands without wasting a day and losing a trust point unnecessarily. Also a night time stake out by the prison to see if we can hear the ghost is something we might as well do after this encounter too.  No sense wasting time by waiting until the next night.  Of course that assumes we will be in shape to do such after defeating Jack.


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## GlassEye (Jun 24, 2011)

We have to sleep sometime.  I'm not keen on running around with whatever fatigue penalties HM sees fit to place on us.

HM, I know _now_ as we're entering combat is probably not the best time to ask but if you would consider allowing Gregori to add the alchemist archetype: Vivisectionist to his sheet I would appreciate it.  Focusing his alchemy in this fashion fits his character a bit more than having bombs...  Just let me know, yea or nay.  Thanks.


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## HolyMan (Jun 24, 2011)

It does seem to fit at that GE. I just have a couple questions about the archetype:

- With getting rid of bombs why does it not replace the Throw Anything feat that alchemist recieve?

- Why does it list plague bomb, poison bomb, etc. as discoveries that complement the archetype. There are no bombs to make sticky?!? 

All and all I think you should adjust Gergori when you get the chance.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 25, 2011)

The group Initiative I am fine with, as long as we can coordinate actions so ranged attackers can go first before the others enter melee.  Things certainly go faster with that method.

But, again that would assume people think that way and try to do better teamwork.  So far that has not been our strength yet, but we have not fought enough together to work that out either.

Even with Initiative counts, I like delaying and 5ft steps to help coordinate attacks to take advantage of people's tactics.  I tend to feel that liberal use of readied actions  and 5ft steps can also help particularly when you know your opponent is going to come to you.

This is something I wrote concerning use of group initiative for a DM workshop on another site:


> But wait, someone is bound to think that they don't  need to invest in bonuses for initiative then.  Not true, if Initiative  is rolled the way I do it (again DM rolling them all).
> 1. Roll Initiative for every participant individually (even each monster individually).
> 3. Then average each side for the order between good guys and bad.  So high initiative helps your side.
> 2.  Then on the losing side, check the individual rolls.  If any rolls beat  all of the winning side's rolls then they (and only they) get to act  first in Round 1 and then they go again when their losing side goes.  So  that Rogue with Improved Initiative helps his side win, but if they  lose yet he still beats the other side individually, he gets to go  first.



So I disagree that investing in Improved Initiative is wasted.  Unless your goal is to act before your allies, then it is not.

I think it would be helpful IC and/or OOC to discuss general tactics so we know what people's preferences are.  Then during combat our characters can actually interact and talk to each other.


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## GlassEye (Jun 25, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> It does seem to fit at that GE. I just have a couple questions about the archetype:
> 
> - With getting rid of bombs why does it not replace the Throw Anything feat that alchemist recieve?
> 
> ...




I don't have the answers to those questions except to say that it probably wasn't fully thought through before added to the book.  Probably not the smartest thing to say when asking your DM to let you use something but there it is.

Thanks, HM.  I'll try to finish it this weekend.


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## GlassEye (Jun 25, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> <snip>
> 
> I think it would be helpful IC and/or OOC to discuss general tactics so we know what people's preferences are.  Then during combat our characters can actually interact and talk to each other.




I'm for working out some tactics.  This is our first real battle, though, and I think it should take a little time to work it out among our characters.  Gregori is a melee fighter but he'll generally need one round (or more) to prepare himself so he's at optimal fighting capabilities, then he'll rush in.  Setting up for flanking will benefit him a lot now that HM has approved Vivisectionist for Gregori's use.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 25, 2011)

At this level, Firvin only has a few important things to help turn the scales when the fight is most challenging.  
1. Her best damage attack is the Elemental Ray (ranged touch) with 5 per day.  This is best used before anyone engages all the targets in melee since she doesn't have Precise Shot.

2. After that is timing of her Inspire Courage.  I am not sure it will be best always to lead with that over trying to catch an opponent with lightning first.  

3. Once melee is joined, she can realistically only use Magic Missiles after that. Unless the melee players use strike and 5ft step away tactics to open up a target for her ranged touch attacks.

4. Her grease spell with have situational uses, but I am not sure to base any tactics on it yet.  Most likely for crowd control.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 25, 2011)

Halál prefers to open with a ranged attack - bow if he's got it armed, spring-loaded dagger if he's got a melee weapon loaded up - then close for melee. Getting Quick Draw will give him a little more flexibility.

Flanking is almost always a good idea for him, of course, especially once he gets two weapon fighting, so he's likely to delay a little and see where the heavier melee folk position themselves before entering melee himself.

So far he's been a little hampered by role-play. For example, since he couldn't see exactly what was going on in the alley, he wasn't sure deadly force would be the best choice. (I'm trying to put the 'Good' in 'Neutral Good' and look out for the villagers, as well as thinking that if who/whatever was behind the alley attack was connected to the other stuff going on it might be good to take them alive.) Not the best way to survive a life and death encounter, but I think I might be able to find a decent middle road between "hack and slash" and "pacifist."

I'm all good with group initiative done according to pm's system (or any other that doesn't impair Halál's ability to get that first action). Just gotta pay more attention to what those who've posted first have done so I'll remember to impose that ranged penalty when appropriate.


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## HolyMan (Jun 25, 2011)

Be no worries than when you get to the prison then. Everything there will be trying to kill you. 

(I saw you posted and thought it was a comment on Jack wanting a feather, LOL).

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 25, 2011)

The feather bit did make me laugh!


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## HolyMan (Jun 26, 2011)

Good it was suppose to. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jun 26, 2011)

Pathfinder Society's answer for the Vivisectionist is Expanded Arcana replaces the Extra Bombs, which normally replaces Brew Potion, to gain an extra extract at first level.  The Hyrum Savage guy is the head of PFS, so his rulings are official.

paizo.com - Paizo / Messageboards / Paizo Publishing / Pathfinder® / Pathfinder Society / General Discussion / The Vivisectionist: Need an Official Ruling

But that is a complete joke.  It gives the alchemist one extra spell as an extract.  But an alchemist learns spells from wizard scrolls, so it only saves him 25 gp in character creation costs.  Big whoop!  

So, I suggest the Extra Discovery feat to replace the Brew Potion/Extra Bombs feat that he is losing.   Even that is limited, because so many of the discoveries are bombs.  

Throw Anything is still useful, as it allows you to throw a chair, or a long sword, and not take a -4 to attack. That fits well with a feral rager I think. And you still get a +1 on throwing alchemist fires.

Toddy's tactics were sound.  He is the "indestrruktable" llama.  He cannot die, he can only be sent home to recuperate for a day.  He charged in,  engaging the enemy, while others were equipping and buffing themselves.  If it wasn't for unknown special abilities, he would have kept the opponent 5' stepping while the rest of the party ganged up on him.  With his +14 acrobatics, he will often be attempting to pulling off the trick Halal did to generate flank as often as he can.  

Marshan's tactics are to bring surprise force down on someone from the second rank.  In places he shouldn't get an attack at all because of reach, he gets barbarian quality damage without taking the normal time to buff.  He only gets four surprise rounds a day before having to fight like an normal opponent.

Firvin should be singing as soon as we close to melee, or even just before.   This next round should be three attacks from us, which nets a +3 damage.  Once Toddy steps up and can full attack, it is 5 attacks per round for +5 damage if we can land our blows.  Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, so she can cast spells or use a crossbow in the following rounds and still keep our bonuses up and running.


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## GlassEye (Jun 26, 2011)

Satin Knights said:


> Pathfinder Society's answer for the Vivisectionist is Expanded Arcana replaces the Extra Bombs, which normally replaces Brew Potion, to gain an extra extract at first level.  The Hyrum Savage guy is the head of PFS, so his rulings are official. <snip>
> 
> So, I suggest the Extra Discovery feat to replace the Brew Potion/Extra Bombs feat that he is losing.   Even that is limited, because so many of the discoveries are bombs.




Interesting and something to keep in mind if UM makes it to LPF.  Doesn't really apply here since Gregori still has Brew Potion, though I appreciate the thought and the link.



			
				Satin Knights said:
			
		

> Throw Anything is still useful, as it allows you to throw a chair, or a long sword, and not take a -4 to attack. That fits well with a feral rager I think. And you still get a +1 on throwing alchemist fires.




Before this run is over Gregori is going to throw a chair.  Just wait.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 27, 2011)

Satin Knights said:


> Firvin should be singing as soon as we close to melee, or even just before.   This next round should be three attacks from us, which nets a +3 damage.  Once Toddy steps up and can full attack, it is 5 attacks per round for +5 damage if we can land our blows.  Maintaining a bardic performance is a free action, so she can cast spells or use a crossbow in the following rounds and still keep our bonuses up and running.



But I will not start singing on a round where everyone has already attacked. Unless a fight looks to be long from the beginning, I will only sing for one round and let Lingering Song continue it for 2 more.  In cases like this, where we can afford to use up everything since resting for the day looks to be available afterward, I will probably burn it up after I start it.

If delaying and coordinating is not something we can work out even OOC, then I want to follow a published individual Initiative count.  The most effective use of Firvin's abilities requires timing and teamwork in the opening rounds so not a single round is wasted.  I see this being even more important later on with Area Effect spells.

In the later stages of most combats, Firvin will likely not have any impact as you guys mop up the last ones.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 27, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> But I will not start singing on a round where everyone has already attacked. Unless a fight looks to be long from the beginning, I will only sing for one round and let Lingering Song continue it for 2 more.  In cases like this, where we can afford to use up everything since resting for the day looks to be available afterward, I will probably burn it up after I start it.



You have to start singing before it affects our actions.  Halal has missed twice in melee, Toddy has missed once in melee, Marshan has missed twice.  Gregori is presumably climbing the back of the building, onto the roof, and is preparing his spectacular leaping charge attack from the roof.    There are only three things that will improve our chances to hit right now.  Flanking, Inspire Courage, and Marshan stopping his attacking to cast Divine Favor on himself.  That is wasting a 40% attack attempt to get a 5% better chance on the next one.  The bardic performance of Inspire Courage does not stop it's effectiveness at the end of the round, but at your next initiative point if you don't maintain it for free.  So, Inspire Courage was the correct thing to do, and was what you stated you were going to do.  The Grease spell was likely a waste.  It is a DC 13 reflex save for a critter that has an already been determined to have a high dex.  The acrobatics check to move through grease is 10.  It was already leaked that the critter has a +20, so ongoing difficulties that make Grease nice do not come into effect this time.  One easy reflex save and the spell is wasted.  In other words, the Grease spell was a long shot, when Inspire Courage would give us better chances.



perrinmiller said:


> If delaying and coordinating is not something we can work out even OOC, then I want to follow a published individual Initiative count.  The most effective use of Firvin's abilities requires timing and teamwork in the opening rounds so not a single round is wasted.  I see this being even more important later on with Area Effect spells.



 Sorry, I am not delaying for someone that does not call out the action they intend to do IC or OOC.  I am not pausing to ask permission to act and wait an 1/2 earth's rotation, when the GM said to go ahead and attack, first come, first attack.  Marshan posted his channel healing intention and carried through on it when he charged into battle.     You posted an Inspire Courage, which in my opinion was the right thing, and then you didn't follow through.  You asked for the characters' battle styles and we gave them to you.  

You are sounding very prissy, wanting the melee characters to stand aside so that you can get your ranged attacks in.  Your elemental attack does d6+1.  My enlarged hammer does 3d6+4, and I can take up to three AoOs in a round.  Toddy's claw/claw/bite routine does 2d4+d6+6 and he gets three AoOs at reach as well.  And maybe not this level, but soon, Halal and Gregori's attacks are going to outshine mine by a whole lot.  The bard/sorcerer job is to stand back as buff, support and battlefield control.  




perrinmiller said:


> In the later stages of most combats, Firvin will likely not have any impact as you guys mop up the last ones.



 Um, no.  Try to do something every round.  You can shoot your bow.  You can get closer and try your acid splash.  Do something.  Maintaining the bardic performance is a free action.  So, you can still shoot the bow or cast a spell while providing the buffs.  Shooting the bow into a melee crowd doesn't hit your comrades.  So, it is always better than doing nothing.  Your main job is singing for buff bonuses.  That you, as the bard, are not doing it three rounds into a battle means there is something wrong.  The Electric Bolt at the beginning was good.  The Magic Missile was good.  The Grease was a bad choice, or extreme long shot, because it was evident that the opponent has a very high dex.  

It is time to start singing, especially since you have backed out of spell range for everything except Magic Missile.  And use a move action to get your bow out and in hand.  If this critter decides to run away, have something in hand to shoot it, unless you think a lonely 1 magic missile is going to drop it when you shoot it on the run.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 27, 2011)

And then the long shot actually knocks the critter down.  
Goes to show there is no "one best action".


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## perrinmiller (Jun 27, 2011)

Satin Knights said:


> Sorry, I am not delaying for someone that does not call out the action they intend to do IC or OOC. I am not pausing to ask permission to act and wait an 1/2 earth's rotation, when the GM said to go ahead and attack, first come, first attack.



 So impatience or selfishness is the stand you want to take?  Good that we all know.



perrinmiller said:


> She calls to her companions, "If you hold a moment, I will inspire your next strikes with song."



I did post IC and it was not read or intentionally ignored without the courtesy of an OOC comment why. Both reasons are enough to make me upset. So yes, I am being "prissy".

I wanted us to have good teamwork and consideration for other player's actions, particularly after last week. Perhaps that was too much to hope for. 

Seeing as polite requests in the general discussion of tactics and my IC request had no effect, I am going to be a jerk about it now. Since this combat is being run with Group Initiative, if you do not *delay* your post/actions until after Firvin does on the next round, I will take offense again and not use Inspire Courage. 

Overall I do not appreciate the tone of your unsolicited advice about Firvin and telling me how to play my  character (which I do NOT appreciate right now either, so please stop). Instead, I would rather you spent your time on the figuring out why you owe me a few apologies.


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## GlassEye (Jun 27, 2011)

Perrin, I have to say (because I don't think anyone else will and I think it needs to be said) that the deliberate rudeness of your last post is unacceptable.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 27, 2011)

Ok.  I read your post different than you read your post.  You wrote:
She calls to her companions, "If you hold a moment, I will inspire your next strikes with song."
and you apparently intended,
She calls to her companions, "If you hold your actions for a moment until I go, I will inspire your next strikes with song."
and I read it as,
She calls to her companions, "If you hold the line for a moment and don't die, I will inspire your next strikes with song."
and then you switched to a different tactic because your intention was not the intention I saw, so I did not react the same as you expected.  We are not fighting a human or kobold that is trivial to survive against.  It looks like we are fighting a demon or devil, and are greatly outmatched.

You said you want to do your Inspire Courage first in a round in order to be effective.  I explained that it is a continuous effect that does not stop at the end of the round, so it doesn't matter when you start.   I went on to say, get it started, and then do something else.

You said you want to conserve your precious resource that is 6  rounds/day.  You have a feat that extends that to a max of 18 rounds a  day.  Yet, I am spending my precious resource that is only 4 rounds/day  without hesitation in order to survive the fight.  A fight that you have  backed so far away from, Marshan cannot even see you any more.  (assuming dim light, doubled, so 40')

I feel delay tatics and metagaming in the OOC for hours or days on end to get the "perfect attack sequence" is wrong, and as a GM I would penalize it harshly, negating it's effect completely.    It is a combat situation that should be acted upon immediately with only the character's knowledge.    The In Character comment was misheard, and not acted upon as expected.

Marshan nearly laughed in character, as he saw the bard use electricity against a demon, when nearly every demon is immune to electricity.  He had not identified it as something other than demon until Halal yelled something about faeborn.  Tensions are already high, so I did not include Marshan laughing at Firvin.

And lastly, you say you don't want me to tell you how to run your character.  That is fine.  I gave you advice.  You can take it or leave it.  But, in the previous paragraph of the same post, you demand to control my actions, and everyone elses.   Ah, um, erm... 

GE: That is about as polite as I can get in a response.


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## HolyMan (Jun 28, 2011)

Sorry was at work when the "civilized" discussion was going on. 

For the record I thought the OOC tactics comments were for when the characters have established themselves into a more coherent team. Again this not being the best way to get to the "meat" of what a person means when they post up an idea or comment. But I thought before we had said or just commented on having a few fights where the group doesn't act like a team and through this learns how to fight using each others strengths and weakness? This is only the third combat they have seen together...

- fought a bunch of thugs who had 11AC and where attacking to subdue (not much you can learn of your companions there).
- fought 1 zombie (out of a d3) that lasted two rounds so again not much to tell.
- and now Jack - who btw is not part of this adventure at all - just an add in to the bestairy and a way to up the XP as I found out you all need to hit level 4 by the end of this module so I threw him in thinking 5 on 1 would last two or three rounds and be over, but now am hoping for a little thorn in are resident tengu's side for a few levels to come.

So if the team isn't working together as it looks like from all the character's perspectives then after this fight would be the perfect time to discuss IC a few tactics. Also keep in mind what your characters knows/have seen. When I hear _"Marshan nearly laughed because of the electricity attack"_ and you post nearly every demon is immune to electricity that may not be something he (Marshan) knows, so you (SK) could have added undo tension by posting something based on what you know. 

And when I see someone holding a grudge from something that happened to their character after the character has been posted "walking it off". Then this to needs to be separated out when it comes to the game as there are other people involved trying to just have fun. To hold back on what the character is going to do IC because of the feelings of the player is not good RP. 



			
				SK said:
			
		

> Sorry,  I am not delaying for someone that does not call out the action they  intend to do IC or OOC. I am not pausing to ask permission to act and  wait an 1/2 earth's rotation, when the GM said to go ahead and attack,  first come, first attack.






			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> So impatience or selfishness is the stand you want to take?  Good that we all know.




You didn't truly read that or again misunderstood the "meat" of what he was saying. SK was following my instructions to post up first come first to attack. To say he was selfish or impatient to follow the DM's instructions is totally wrong.



			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> if you do not *delay* your post/actions until after Firvin does on the next round, I will take offense again and not use Inspire Courage.




This is selfishness here. From the player, as I'm sure Firvin would want to help and bring the creature down asap before it kills someone.



			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> Overall I do not appreciate the tone of your unsolicited advice about  Firvin and telling me how to play my  character (which I do NOT  appreciate right now either, so please stop).




I took SK's advice as not how to play Firvin but as how to play a bard. Firvin is yours to decide on. SK was letting you know some of the best reasons to get inspired courage started and keep it going. 

Now the "don't not do anything there is always an option" comment may be taken as telling you how to play Firvin. As Firvin might be the kind of character who likes to observe and then add in a strike when she thinks the time is right or some other little quirk, who knows still figuring out character personalities here. SK doesn't know surely if you don't have it all figured out and you should be adult enough to let comments like this pass without comment.



			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> I wanted us to have good teamwork and consideration for other player's  actions, particularly after last week. Perhaps that was too much to hope  for.




Only 4 hours passed in the IC not sure what you were looking for. Other players actions? I'm confused there. Everyone was doing what their characters would do - exactly how it should be.



			
				GE said:
			
		

> ...the deliberate rudeness of your last  post is unacceptable.




I will say it. Although he did ask for SK to please stop at the end, so there is that little bit of civility. But being upset about the post from the IC with the sheriff I think is causing the animosity. And the still waiting on an apology from SK.

Well from where I sit SK is waiting for an apology from you perrinmiller.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jun 28, 2011)

Actually, I don't care about an apology.  Everyone just relax and have fun.  This is a streaming, free form fantasy, with a 1,001 rules.  Please don't treat it like a chess match.  If it is generating stress, it is not a game.

Since the battle gave me a perfect point to make an example, I did.
This explanation of what it is and what I did is to head off the "now he is making demands" as a possible view of the posting before it starts.

Marshan shouted out a battle order.  To the players behind the other characters, it is only a suggestion.  Since Halal is the next in the informal ordering we have been using, 

Halal can pay attention to the order, move in a 5 square U, flank with Marshan and take a single attack.
Halal can pay attention to the order, move in a 6 square U, flank with Toddy and take a single attack.
Halal can ignore the order, take a 5' step and attack with beak and sword.
Halal can attack with a spell.
Halal can pause because he remembers a previous request from Firvin, then move somewhere and attack.
Halal can full withdraw and run away.

Marshan chose his ready action trigger so only one of those will not  trigger his ready action. But, only one of the actions gives Marshan the  bonus that he was looking for. Mowgli has full control of what Halal is  going to do, and even though it was a shouted as a battle order, it is really  a suggestion.  The order was short, blunt and hopefully unambiguous.   

Unless Halal runs away, Marshan will get his swing in this turn.  Between him and Toddy, all the area from the original victim, to I2, to M2, to M6 is reachable for AoO possibilities.  Some hard corners are actually limiting Marshan. Toddy's next action is probably movement to further box in the beast, because that is what his master shouted.

Since we are missing *so much*, it looks like Gregori might get a chance to get back into the fight.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 28, 2011)

Was trying to think what _Halál_ would do, rather than what _Mowgli_ would do. I don't think the characters would see combat as turn based, but rather as free flowing - Halál would get in as many swings as he could, relying on Firvin to jump in with her singing when she could get to it.

He'd trust her to do what she thinks is her best option to help with the fight; he doesn't know her well enough yet to know what all of those options are.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 29, 2011)

Sorry I had computer problems yesterday and did not read anything on EnWorld until today.  So I am catching up now.

Rude or not, I am asking for player courtesy on something and basically told to pack sand by everyone now. This was an OOC request as players, nothing to do with how long IC are characters have been together.  In fact the entire debate on tactics was as players, nothing IC about it. It was meant to foster OOC teamwork, and it back fired, I guess.

Despite feeling aggrieved, I will be the better person and apologize. My last post was childish and selfish, I am sorry.  

But most of you KNOW how upset I was, my feelings hurt and you all basically stood by and did nothing.   Mowgli understood right away when I was upset and apologized.  GE ignored my PM.  And our reference has let it all continue, apparently to work out IC. SK doesn't think he has ever done anything wrong and hasn't apologized once.  If he had the first time, I might not have been upset as much this time.  But instead of apologizing this time, he basically told me to stick it in my ear since I did not spell out OOC plainly.

All I ever wanted in this combat was something so simple.  Add these words at the beginning of your posts:








*OOC:*


Delay until Firvin goes and then do this:







So if you want things plainly in OOC requests, I will do so in future so it will be properly understood. 

But more often than not, I will want to go first among the players during our turn as long as it doesn't negatively impact anyone's actions.  Particularly when against a lone opponent and I can use a ranged touch attack right before you guys close in for melee.  Just like at the beginning of the current round.  

This is an OOC request as of now.  I don't mind if people post ahead of me, I just want Firvin's Actions resolved first.

But just being granted this request appears to be something no one is willing to do though.  And near as I can tell, it looks like no cares what I think or feel on this entire deal.   Is that how I am supposed to interpret this situation?  It certainly feels that way to me.


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## GlassEye (Jun 29, 2011)

These bad feelings seem to have carried over from the scene where you, Perrin, felt Firvin was undercut in front of the sheriff by Satin’s character.  The problem is, as I see it, that Halal previously mentioned that someone else could be using the farm without Geb’s knowledge.  Firvin skipped over that in favor of a more dastardly interpretation (backed up by Gregori’s previous comments).  When Marshan interrupted with an explanation the sheriff would be more likely to accept, you took offense.  I’m sorry if this offends you, but showing our group can be level-headed and reasonable is more important than saving face for one character.  To put it even more bluntly, I don’t think Satin owes you an apology for that situation.  True, he could have put it more diplomatically but, c’mon, forthrightness is part of Marshan’s character just as much as it’s a part of Borric’s.

Tone is a difficult thing to judge on forums.  Heaven knows I’ve gotten riled enough times at something I’ve read online; it’s easy to do and sometimes hard to let go of those feelings.  Here’s the thing, though: when reading all the posts involved yours feel more antagonistic and demanding to me.

True, I didn’t respond to your private message.  I’m sorry your feelings are hurt but I feel you are blowing all this way out of proportion and that these situations are mostly of your own making.  I didn’t think saying so would help improve your feelings any so I said nothing and let Mowgli be the calming voice.  Just because I didn’t respond doesn’t mean that I ignored it; please don’t ascribe motives to my actions when it is impossible for you to discern them.

As for this current situation with the initiative and delaying, your request came across as a demand.  Maybe that’s not what you intended but that’s the way it read to me.  The IC definitely influenced the OOC discussion.  The big problem with group initiative run in this fashion is that it favors those active at the time of the DM over those who post at different times.  In this case, because Perrin is so far away he ends up frequently going last.  This causes a problem when he feels he has something that needs to go off before others close.  Posting that we delay, waiting for Firvin’s action, then posting our actions slows down combat so that we might as well be using regular initiative.  A possible solution to use with group initiative is to post more than one round of actions in a post if you end up being the last person to post in a round.  That way you may have to postpone your preferred action but you’ll still be able to get it off at the beginning of the next round.  It’s not ideal as it doesn’t work for the first round of combat.  If circumstances change the person should get the opportunity to alter the stated action.

I hope that I haven’t offended anyone with my comments.  Some of it probably should have been said a while back; maybe that would have helped lessen hurt feelings, maybe not.  I really hope we can work this out and continue playing the game together because, overall (minus the arguments), I’ve enjoyed it and think we could have a really good time with the rest of it.  On the other hand, if we can’t let go of bad feelings now we might as well end it; I’ve been in games that have continued on with built up resentment still lingering and neither ended pleasantly.  I don’t care to repeat the experience.

--GE


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## HolyMan (Jun 30, 2011)

Listing the Spring Heeled Jacks ability to see if you all read it as I do.



> _
> Vault (Su)_ Spring-Heeled Jack is capable of leaping great heights and distances. In addition to receiving a +8 bonus on Acrobatics checks made for jumping, Spring-Heeled Jack possesses the ability to spring up to 20 feet vertically as a move action without provoking an attack of opportunity. This acts exactly as the levitate spell, except Spring-Heeled Jack can also move horizontally as long as the cumulative distance moved is equal to or less than 20 feet. This ability cannot be used again until Spring-Heeled Jack lands on a stable surface, but may be used twice in the same round if he lands between move actions.



Since Jack moved straight up then over (actually moved in an arch but for mechanics it was 10' up 10' over) I took it as unnecessary to roll the check. Any mage in a grease spell who cast levitate would also not have to roll as they aren't crossing through the area of effect.

BTW - he also has a permanent feather fall in effect - hence the floating down to sit on the roof edge.

And his entrance. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jun 30, 2011)

I would argue that levitate does not need a stable surface to push against, Vault specifically does and the greased ground isn't exactly a stable surface.  Therein, I would require an acrobatics roll.  But since a skill roll doesn't fail on a 1, the the Jack has an auto success.  If it is an auto success, the roll need not be shown.  
The movement is through the air, so it would not be halved.

That is how I see it.  In other words, The "stable surface" phrase adds an additional condition on top of the "works as levitate".  But, he cannot fail that condition.


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## HolyMan (Jun 30, 2011)

So a higher DC would effect him, I can see that. Say trying to vault while on a frozen lake or from a galloping horse (have no idea why Jack would be riding a horse) would be more difficult.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 30, 2011)

That works for me, I guess. My thinking was that he would auto-succeed the check, thus would be able to move half. While the movement is through the air, it requires effort against the ground, and since the grease requires extra care and less push he wouldn't be able to jump as hard without falling - just like a normal person wouldn't be able to 'walk' as hard without falling.

I can jump on a frozen lake or an ice skating rink, too. I just can't jump as high or as far without falling down.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 30, 2011)

In regards to the horizontal movement: it's not up, then over like a levitate or a fly spell. It requires that he push in a horizontal direction as well. Ever tried jumping forward on an ice rink? It's a *whole* lot harder than just jumping straight up.


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## Satin Knights (Jul 1, 2011)

Passwall?  Yikes!  And this is a first level encounter?  
OK.  A tunnel in the building centered on where he touched it. 
Assuming he cannot dismiss it the same round he creates it, and assuming he didn't move on the roof inward before casting it through the roof so it would affect only the roof.

So, how big is the hole?  Which way was it orientated? (assuming down)  Did it create a pit?  And did it take out the adjoining wall he was sitting on below it so Marshan and Toddy can chase through?


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## HolyMan (Jul 1, 2011)

Let's say he "fell" through a hole in the roof sized for a medium creature.

I don't think following from above is easily possible. It is why I marked the front door square on the map. 

But if you want to get to the roof it would be a climb check or you could enlarge and put someone on the roof (as you are all group together) in the same turn.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 1, 2011)

I'll be leaving for the Internet Dead Zone later today or early tomorrow, and won't be able to post until Monday AM.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 1, 2011)

Have fun.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 1, 2011)

Gracias! Headed for a (fairly) local lake to gather with the extended family for the weekend - should be a blast!


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## perrinmiller (Jul 1, 2011)

Aww crap!  It's the 4th of July weekend isn't it.  I lose track of those things over here.  Now I gotta figure out what to do for my wedding anniversary on the 5th.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 1, 2011)

Happy Anniversary! Hope it's a great one!


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## Satin Knights (Jul 1, 2011)

Passwall carves out a big chunk, so I was hoping it took a section of the wall too.  But, apparently, Jack was lucky in his placement.

But, did it provoke AoOs from Marshan and Toddy?  
It was a Spell-like ability inside both of their reaches, and concentration checks should not be automatic at our level.


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## HolyMan (Jul 1, 2011)

I do not wish to get into my dislike of the way SLAs are handled so lets say...

Jack 5' stepped away and Halál will get an auto success on his breaking open the door since Toddy already attacked and missed. 

This fight has gone a little longer than planned and should be over soon.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jul 7, 2011)

Are we waiting on Halal to swing, or on Jack to do something?


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## HolyMan (Jul 7, 2011)

Actually for Jack I know what he is going to do I have been writing up the IC post (third time now) as this fight is all but done, and the holiday followed by yesterdays computer melt down has slowed me down a bunch.

Am updating everything tonight this is on the list. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jul 7, 2011)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: A couple of logistics corrections: 

In post #327, Marshan moved to i12 before swinging on Jack so that he was between the woman and Jack.  Therefore, it is quite possible he was not in the cone of fire.

An eidolon goes unconscious at 0 hp, but does not get dismissed until it reaches or exceeds its negative CON score.  (APG p.55)  The Synthesist loses its eidolon battle suit at zero, but a normal summoner can have an unconscious and bleeding eidolon on the field.  So, Toddy would be down but not gone.  Unless someone got a dismissal or banishment in there some how.


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## HolyMan (Jul 7, 2011)

Sorry I don't do summoners much (at all really). Will adjust the post.

Also missed your move thought I got everyone for the round. Let me see maybe he would go the other way because getting rid of the big hammer guy would be first on his mind you know. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jul 7, 2011)

That's fine.  I would expect him to go after the guy with the biggest weapon and that did serious damage to him.


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## HolyMan (Jul 7, 2011)

Updated...

You did break his poor little leg. 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jul 7, 2011)

Marshan still has a lot of cleanup to do.
[sblock=Intentions]Stabilize Toddy
Stabilize Jack, he should only be unconscious
Have Jack tied up  for interrogation while...
Go get the unconscious guy off the street and bring him inside.  Even backstabbing, Jack shouldn't have been able to take the commoner to -CON in one round.  The healing burst in the first round should have stabilized him.
Separate Jack from rest
healing burst, healing burst
switch to cure light wounds x2 if still needed
Summon the sheriff and priest
Turn over an unconscious Jack for interrogation by the sheriff, many priests, and us in a controlled environment.
Why?  The dead answer few questions.
[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Jul 8, 2011)

Will give everyone else till tomorrow noonish to add/wish to change anything mentioned above. This being pbp I think we should have a 24/36 hour - wait to decide the clean up after a fight.

We can discuss that here or the CT thread.

HM


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## GlassEye (Jul 8, 2011)

Gregori needs to collect his scattered weaponry.  Beyond that he has no pressing actions.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 8, 2011)

Firvin doesn't have anything else either.  I will AFK for the next 24-36 hours anyway.  Only following by phone.


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## Satin Knights (Jul 8, 2011)

Adding: 
Calm the screaming woman and tell her that the magic that made a hole in the roof should dissipate in a couple hours and the hole should disappear.  "As to the door, um..." Pull out my coin pouch and count the eight silver pieces in it twice.  Then give her four. "It is not enough to pay for the damage to the door, but I don't have much."

If we saved the pedestrian in the street, ask him the usual questions for completeness like: Who he was? What did he see? Where was he going? even though it is doubtful that he is connected with our mission.

Marshan has 2 channel positive energy area healings for d6 each and 2 cure light wounds spells d8+1 to use to get people back on their feet.  HM can roll them to speed writing up the narrative. 

Jack kept talking to his blade.  Treat the blade as dangerous and maybe alive.  Use Mage Hand to move it and bag it only after the sheriff arrives and sees it.

That's all the ideas I can think of for milking the situation for "witnessed" good will and "solving unknown mysteries" which have no clues here .


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 8, 2011)

How much does a door cost? Halál will add another 9 SP (for a total of 1½ GP).

He'll collect his two daggers, and help Marshan with the listed tasks. Seems like SK's covered everything.

Halál's down 5 (7/12) HP; he's got a CLW if it's needed after Marshan's channeling and curing.


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## Satin Knights (Jul 9, 2011)

Before I post in the IC thread, Is Jack still alive but unconscious, or is he fully dead?  The blanket over him has me a bit confused.  I don't want him to regain consciousness and pull another trick from under the blanket and disappear on us.  Marshan wouldn't have used a blanket to cover the body unless the head had been removed from it first.  Especially if it is an unnatural looking creature with unknown powers.

I wanted to stabilize him at unconscious, tie him up, and keep him guarded with a blade to his throat until he can be carried out while still unconscious to a nasty interrogation room at the church.  It is possible he is the one that dropped the masonry on our poor professor, or he could be responsible for other nasty things happening in the past.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 9, 2011)

Mowgli said:


> How much does a door cost? Halál will add another 9 SP (for a total of 1½ GP).



Firvin has plenty of money.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 15, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> OOC: Just something to refer back to later (in case you get stuck).



Personally, I am confused enough already.  The idea that coming back to this scene will clear things up makes me even more confused.


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## GlassEye (Jul 15, 2011)

I'm guessing it refers to one or more murders in the region.  Perhaps one that put a prisoner in Harrowstone or something that happened during the fire that burnt Harrowstone.  If that's the case it should give us some sort of insight (which escapes me at the moment) into one of the ghosts.


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## HolyMan (Jul 17, 2011)

Insight  correct GE can't wait to read the "Ah, I get it now." posts 

Is everyone off to church?

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jul 17, 2011)

I think we are once GE and Mowg have had a chance to post IC if they want to.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 20, 2011)

I forget.  Do we know where these artifacts are supposed to be?  Maybe that was in the Professor's books.


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## GlassEye (Jul 20, 2011)

Professor's Journal said:
			
		

> I know that the church of Pharasma used to store them in a false crypt in the Restlands at the intersection between Eversleep and the Black Path.




Also, reading back over some of that stuff reminds me we still don't have a listing of the persons who died in the Harrowstone fire.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 20, 2011)

That is true, GE. We have not asked at all today.  

But we keep skipping through the scenes with no NPC interactions (not that I am complaining, mind you), so maybe we can retcon those questions in.


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## HolyMan (Jul 20, 2011)

Trying to forgo unnecessary RP as it is slowing down a slow process. Really in the mod it is all a Diplomacy check but we have had enough of those so I played the Father indifferent. 

You can always say that during any of the times I "play through" an NPC encounter like that your character asked a few specific questions - just OOC them or pm them to me and I will give you the answers and then you can post up something like... "Remember what he said about the list of the dead at the Harrowstone fire? That everyone, but the prisoners, had their name on the monument. He sure was tight lipped about knowing who the prisoners were." etc.

I just got the 5th module and you all aren't lvl 2 yet. Don't wish to rush this but also don't wish to play through something that has no advancing potential. If we were around the table sure enough, but adding two weeks here and two weeks there while your "off track" isn't what I call fun for anyone.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jul 21, 2011)

That sounds good, HM.  

These last few exchanges it has been "we should have asked ____" after the scene advanced.  So if we can include the questions right after in the OOC thread, that would be good.

Sometimes I forget them ahead of time, thinking that my memory would be jogged when we meet the NPC.  But, I am in favor of the skipping over these repetitive encounters like you have been doing as long as we don't get penalized.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 22, 2011)

Dang, the spoiler block wasn't there on my email notification and I read it from my phone earlier today.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 22, 2011)

I will reply with Firvin after SK and Mowgli get a chance to post once RL steps aside to give them some more time.


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## Satin Knights (Jul 22, 2011)

I didn't look in the spoiler until now.  I had written my post based on how Gregori was acting, and assuming I saw the same as him.  Do you want me to rewrite my post?


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 23, 2011)

[sblock=OOC]I'm on vacation until a week from Sunday. I'll be able to post at least once or twice daily starting tomorrow evening or Sunday morning, but until then it'll be just checking in on my phone to keep up with what's going on.[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Jul 23, 2011)

NP Mowgli - glad to hear you are getting a vacation and extra time to play.



> based on how Gregori was acting, and assuming I saw the same as him.




Nope your characters would not, sorry.

Right now I think I need GE to re-look at the spoiler. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Jul 24, 2011)

Sorry.  Been out participating in my best pal's wedding activities this weekend.  If I don't manage a post this morning before the after wedding brunch I'll get one in this afternoon.


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## HolyMan (Jul 26, 2011)

Hope you had great fun GE.  I have been busy last two days but am going to update shortly. Before then everyone a couple things if you please...

1) I have been reading up on Ultimate Magic, but am no optimizer so hard for me to find anything but there are spells feats I wish to "look at" so...
 a) Anyone object to me throwing in a few spells/feats/archtypes into this AP and
 b) Would like everyone to look into trying a few spells, feats, etc. 

2) If anyone has time I had a player ask a question here about evolutions and eidolons. Really not my strong suit. If anyone has the time maybe they could chime in and make sure I answered/didn't miss anything correctly.

Thanks in advance 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jul 26, 2011)

1a) Go ahead.
1b) I don't think the party could handle two Toddys.
2) Toddy made an appearance with my best guesses.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 26, 2011)

I have been looking through the UM as part of the Judge review to include in LPF, but I haven't found anything yet for Firvin.  But leveling up is so far away, that I should have time to investigate stuff properly.


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## GlassEye (Jul 26, 2011)

Feel free to use whatever sources you want, HM.  I've a pretty solid idea how I want Gregori to advance but I'll look through to see if there is anything (besides his new archetype) that would be feasible for him to use.


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## HolyMan (Jul 26, 2011)

Thanks everyone will be adding some things here and there as they look to make a better fit then. 

I also have been reading up for the LPF and some things jumped out at me that I wish to try as we get to those levels.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 30, 2011)

I'll be driving back home from Florida all day today - won't be online again 'till sometime tomorrow.


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## HolyMan (Aug 7, 2011)

Moving this...

*Loot List*
dozen silver arrows (brown fletched)
 four sun rods
 six flasks of holy  water
 ten white fletched arrows - magical (not ID'ed)
 five blue fletched arrows - magical (not ID'ed)
 two black  fletched arrows - magical (not ID'ed)
 five potions of cure light wounds(d8+1)
 two potions of  lesser restoration
 two scroll cases - unopened magical scrolls inside
 darkwood case - unopened something magical inside

over to here in case you have any OOC questions about it.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 9, 2011)

Ok I'm updating the thread but I have a question.

perrinmiller why did you roll Know Arcana checks. Is there some way I don't know about to use that to identify magical items?

Was just wondering it doesn't look like it to me I can't find anything but I play more martial types so let me know please.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 9, 2011)

This was something from the Detect Magic spell to determine the magical aura.  So if the spellcraft check fails, then at least we might know the strength and type of aura to make an educated guess on the items purpose.


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## HolyMan (Aug 9, 2011)

Ah ok then, maybe after we see what help Kendra is I will go back and double check those rolls for anything missed. Then I will post those results up. You won't need them should you get things ID'ed and Kendra has a +18 bonus  (for three items at least).

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2011)

Also have the RG spot updated. Now all we need to do is divide up this stuff and see about going to prison. 

*Loot List*
dozen silver arrows (brown fletched)
 four sun rods
 six flasks of holy  water
 ten white fletched arrows +1
 five blue fletched arrows - not ID'ed (aura = moderate conjuration)
 two black  fletched arrows +1 undead bane
 five potions of cure light wounds(d8+1)
 two potions of  lesser restoration
 two scrolls - _hide from undead_
scroll -_ protection from evil_
scroll - _detect undead_
four haunt siphon
spirit planchette

HM


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## GlassEye (Aug 11, 2011)

FYI, Thursday night through Saturday I'll be at a dance competition and won't be posting until late Saturday or sometime on Sunday.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 11, 2011)

Heh, heh.  I have images of Gregori competing in either a ballet performance or ball room dance.  

Good luck, GE. 

FYI, there will be a few days over the next 10 days, where I might not be posting but only reading from my phone.


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2011)

Ok gang I just need you all to put your characters to bed a few things to help us along to a next day post and get to the bulk of this module. 

a) Go ahead and roll your try to decipher the arrows here perrinmiller as I know Firvin will try in the morning. If you don't get it. <DC 24 btw> then I will have Kendra try in the 'morning' post.

b) After the talk with the bartender at The Laughing Demon the group would know the best place to find a spirit is Harrowstone. And let's not forget the rumor of the warden's wife that haunts the place. So that would work for you all as you wish to go there anyway.

c) Please divide the equipment up here if you think it will take a lot of player knowledge to determine who should have what. And please add anything that is a use-once item to your mini-stats. I will fluff the division if you all wish.

d) To make sure we are all on the same page the post will also be like an update. I am writing it know and it may take a couple days. I am looking to hit Harrowstone say SUN into MON. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 13, 2011)

Spellcraft (1d20+6=17) - I guess it's Kendra's turn on that.

Firvin would take 4 +1 Arrows, unless another archer wants them all (which I am fine with).  4 Silver arrows (or more if there is no other interest).

She will take two flasks of Holy Water (I suggest we get/make some more ?).  2d6 dmg vs. undead is nothing to sneeze at.

The scrolls, I am not sure if she should carry any of them or not.  I will leave that up to the divine casters to decide.

Potions: 1-2 CLW since she is in the back and can apply them to fallen characters.  She will carry the potions of lessor restoration too for that reason, but the cleric can take them instead.

1 sunrod (or more) and fashion a holder for it on her backpack so it can be used hands free.  Take 10 on crafting.

1 Haunt siphon, assuming we each are taking one.

She will take the spirit planchette, but not sure it matters who takes it.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Aug 13, 2011)

Gregori can probably make the best use of the Holy Water (Throw Anything feat and adds his INT to splash weapon damage).

Halál will take whatever arrows, holy water, etc. the group wishes him to have. For close combat he's got his Disrupt Undead cantrip in addition to his more mundane combat stuff.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 13, 2011)

Er.. Do you need the throw anything feat to chuck flasks (holy water, alchemist fire, etc...) without penalty?


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## Maidhc O Casain (Aug 13, 2011)

Turns out you don't . It was the bit about adding his INT to the damage (including the splash damage) that was my main point; the bit about the feat was in the same part of the class description so naturally I just tossed it in.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 13, 2011)

{whew} I thought I was mistaken about something.


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## GlassEye (Aug 13, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> Heh, heh.  I have images of Gregori competing in either a ballet performance or ball room dance.
> 
> Good luck, GE.




Thanks!  It was ballroom and out of 8 events I took 6 1st places, a 2nd and a 3rd.  It was a blast but now I'm ready for some sleep and ready to get back to normal life for a while.  Gregori doing ballroom or ballet would definitely be amusing.

As for gear, Gregori doesn't own a bow so the arrows are useless to him unless he can borrow or buy a bow.  Still, he does better with thrown weapons.  As for holy water, his INT mod is only +1 but I guess +1 extra damage is better than none.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 14, 2011)

Congrats, GE.  Is that just you and your partner or is that for a team?


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## Maidhc O Casain (Aug 14, 2011)

That's awesome, GlassEye! Way to go!


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## HolyMan (Aug 14, 2011)

And a congrats from me. I hope you had a good time.

HM


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## GlassEye (Aug 14, 2011)

Thanks!  I appreciate that.



perrinmiller said:


> Is that just you and your partner or is that for a team?




That was just me and my partner.  It was a Professional/Amateur competition and my partner is the Professional dancer so the judges were only supposed to judge my dancing.  In theory, anyway.  Now that it's over I think I have Post Dramatic Stress syndrome (no one brings the drama quite like a ballroom dancer ).


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## perrinmiller (Aug 14, 2011)

I never heard of Post Dramatic Dress Syndrome.  Is that where she makes you wear the dress for the competition?


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## GlassEye (Aug 14, 2011)

Ballroom dresses can be somewhat revealing.  You do _not_ want to see me in one.


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## Satin Knights (Aug 15, 2011)

Marshan will take 4 silver arrows, 3 white arrows, 2 blue arrows and 1 black arrow and one of the haunt siphons.  He will take none of the CLW potions, lesser restoration potions, sunrods or the holy water.  He will be using channeling if he needs healing and is still conscious.  The channel vs. undead won't get far, as it is a DC 11 save for half.  Gregori has the better throw skills. 

Marshan will be memorizing Detect Undead, Deathwatch, and his domain spell of Enlarge Self.  For orisons, Detect Magic, Read Magic, Stabilize.  He is giving up his Light orison for the day, so Firvin will have to provide that if the sunrods get lost or used up.

He will use the Read Magic to review all the scrolls before leaving, but only take one Hide from Undead scroll.  What are the caster levels on these scrolls?  That makes a significant difference on their effectiveness.

That leaves 4 silver arrows, 3 white arrows, 3 blue arrows, 1 black arrow and three scrolls for Halal.

(Ok.  I needed a nat 20, but my character doesn't know that.  Got close.)


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## perrinmiller (Aug 15, 2011)

HM, is the town hall a municipal building with records?  Looking at the description in the RG thread it doesn't sound like it, but rather a large building that can be used for various things.

Is there a mayor?  I seem to remember a councilman or somebody we met, do they have an office in the Town Hall?


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## HolyMan (Aug 18, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Ok gang I just need you all to put your characters to bed....




I'm not sure how to say this nicely so I must be direct.

Please the next time I ask for you all to go about something like the above I would greatly appreciate it if you all didn't go in the complete opposite direction. 

I don't wish to railroad the group but with the speed of pbp it seems better to advance a thread when a group looks to be stuck or not sure what is next. I was trying to get things moved forward and this trip to the Laughing Demon would not do that.

I have decided after much thinking to throw another Event at the group. It is the next to last one and they were suppose to last for the 30 days (if needed) of your stay in Ravengro and your group is on Day 4. 

After this event I will move things to the next day. As a boon (should you be successful) I will forgo the Diplomacy check to use the Town Hall as a research place. The group can then spend the day researching there with a +2 to all Knowledge checks to discover what they can about the five prisoners.

If some of you still wish to go to the temple you will need to make a DC 25 Diplomacy check to be allowed to use their library. 

I'm am not angry and I hope I don't come off as so. But you all have almost finished everything there is to finish but exploring the prison. For insight the module part of this book is 47 pages and the prison is 28 of those. 

*EDIT:* And you all have completed the first 16 pages of the 19 that aren't the prison.

Time to get to the bulk of this.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 19, 2011)

Sorry, on my phone yet, but I had to retort. 

DM of the Rings C:Railroad Goes Ever on and on - Twenty Sided

LOL


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## HolyMan (Aug 19, 2011)

LOL indeed, 



> _While planning your gameworld, it should be noted that no matter what you do, the players are going to route around those aspects of the world into which you have poured the most detail and filled with the most interesting characters. They will skip right past those locations and insist on exploring the blank areas of the map.
> 
> Then they will grumble about the threadbare nature of the campaign.
> 
> If you prevent them from doing this, they will accuse you of railroading them._




HM


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## Satin Knights (Aug 19, 2011)

I was simply going to suggest wielding one of the two following GM weapons:
[sblock=Clue Bat]Hey, I said go to sleep so we can start tomorrow on the way to the prison.  or [sblock=+1 Clue Bat of Speed]After you slept, and identified the last piece, you find yourselves at the gate to the prison.[/sblock][/sblock]or[sblock=The Mobius Left]The plot has the right path and the Mobius Left path.  But the Mobius Left always leads to the right path.  The name may change, but the tune remains the same. You've just killed your only information source. No wait!  His hireling was wearing the master's shirt with the sewn in name tag, and the source is out back having fun with the town wench.  Or my personal favorite, "Even bad guys can pay in advance for Raise Dead."[/sblock]
And if this is a Spring-heeled Jill sneaking up on us, well I'm gonna ....


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## Satin Knights (Aug 23, 2011)

It helps to recheck our inventory occasionally.  We do have the means to fix Toddy.  Whew!


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## HolyMan (Aug 23, 2011)

Lucky you remembered. I was about to hit you with the +1 Clue Bat 

HM


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## Satin Knights (Aug 23, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Lucky you remembered. I was about to hit you with the +1 Clue Bat
> 
> HM



That is what it is there for.  Marshan will get around to feeding Toddy the potion after we get the crowd settled down and safe.  Ie, probably when we return "home" to sleep.  So don't hold up the crowd/dance situation on me.


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## HolyMan (Aug 25, 2011)

As I'm sure Firvin was probably looking over Marshan's shoulder as he studied the arrows she can make an aid another check to see if you ID those arrows.

Also everyone please add in your consumables (As SK already has) and if a scroll doesn't have a CL listed in the game I am going to play it as one lvl higher than the minimum needed to cast.

Better add that to a houserule somehwere. LOL

HM


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## Satin Knights (Aug 25, 2011)

So the 2 Hide from Undead scrolls will give us a combined protection for 20 minutes for 4 people. (Toddy is dismissible) So, we can use them for sneaking in and have the protection fall at the first attack against anything, or use them as an escape route when we get overwhelmed.  I vote escape route because we don't know what we are sneaking into.  Getting knee deep in undead and then losing the protection would be bad.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 25, 2011)

Spellcraft Aid Another (1d20+6=13), there we go. 

I am fine with the suggestion on the scroll usage.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Aug 25, 2011)

The suggested scroll use sounds fine to me as well.

I'll get my consumables added this evening - off to work in a few.


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## HolyMan (Aug 27, 2011)

Well trying something new here gang. Just got this idea tonight. 

In a normal game we would be sitting around the table and when the module calls for a perception or know roll we could get through it pretty quick. Not so in good ol' pbp. So I am going to try instead of saying make a Perception check or make a Know (whatever) roll, I will go ahead and make them for the area.

Then I will fluff the rolls accordingly. If you are successful and spot whatever is out of the ordinary and it has "special rules" (like this manor) I will go ahead and post them. Then you can decide as a group what you wish to do. 

You could even go ahead and start the searching without me given you have the rules. You would make your rolls and then post accordingly. This may help to speed things along a little better than me saying "Make Perception checks." and then getting it all done days later.

Couple things to remember: 

1- You are close to town so leaving and coming back if things get hairy is acceptable. No need to try it all in a single trip.

2- You may come back to areas later. I'm sure you will eventually want to search every area or room but maybe the manor can wait till a certain rogue has Evasion. 

Magical arrows: +1 ghost touch will update loot list next.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 27, 2011)

HM,
DM rolling reaction checks for Knowledge or Perception (Spot/Listen) sounds fine by me, no need to hold up the game for those.  But it would be nice if you could label them so we know what we rolled without guessing or having doubt.

Also for active searching, I sent something like this to Mowgli for another game.


			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> Use of Perception to actively Search, you can take as many Move Actions as yo want without penalty of failure on  that Skill check to look for traps/secret doors/etc...
> 
> Setting the DC in an OOC comment  just determines the threshold for continued rolling, rather than spend 2  minutes IC time on the Take 20 for every square since when the player does not feel  such scrutiny was necessary.
> 
> ...


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## HolyMan (Aug 27, 2011)

I kept the rolls hidden so as not to let you know if I was trap searching or not. The main thing is the fluff that follows and then the crunch. They allow you to know that you must have made whatever roll the module called for and that way we can continue on without spending a week or more searching.

I also might put a dungeon spot in the RG and list the rooms you clear and such - this exploration may take 6 months or more maybe a quick reference spot to remember where you found this or what's in that room would be helpful. ( and jog memories)

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 28, 2011)

Eh?  Searching for traps is an active skill check isn't it?  If we are looking for traps, we should know that we are searching.  I am confused.

I can see Perception checks for Spot and Listen being reactionary and secret rolls by the DM, though.  

I agree with SK, include Initiative checks in the DMs list of dice rolls.  It makes sense since you are setting up the encounter, why wait for us.  

However, I still think we should know when we are having a Knowledge Skill Check or Spellcraft being made for us as that reflects our character's knowledge.


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## HolyMan (Aug 28, 2011)

Good points - My thinking was that if I were in an RL game and rolling behind a screen you wouldn't know what I was rolling. Then I would say "You don't_ detect _any traps." This being oddly different you reverse it - you see the roll but are not sure which one is for the spotting/listening and which is for the searching. And I can still say "You don't _detect_ any traps."

I think if I roll INIT and get the encounter moving people might wish for the brakes to be put on. This way you get about 24 hours notice to look over what is happening and can post any question/comments. I don't wish to start the combat and then have to take back whatever has happened. It's a just in case thing.

Well I am off to work will post up the surprise round tonight.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 28, 2011)

Maybe this is something simplified in PF compared to 3.5ed.  When Searching for traps or secret doors, a player rolls the dice and they have the option to roll again or not, until they are satisfied they searched well enough.  So I do not understand why the DM would be rolling that secretly in the first place.

In my opinion all PF did was combine the three skills (Spot, Listen, and Search) together into one.  Actual application of the skill checks for those things appears to be unchanged.

But I am not the rogue so...


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## Maidhc O Casain (Aug 28, 2011)

I guess I've always thought of GM rolls as a way to 1) prevent metagaming and 2) preserve the 'immersion factor.'

1) If I'm searching and I know what I rolled, it can give me as a player knowledge that my character wouldn't have - if my perception check is a 28 and I find nothing, _I'm_ certain there's nothing there, but as far as _Halál_ knows he might have missed something. I trust my players not to metagame, so I'll post links to my Invisible Castle rolls in case they're curious, but I don't 'force' the knowledge on them by putting the rolls in the post.

2) Removing mechanics to behind the curtain emphasizes the story over the dice rolls. This is another reason why when I GM I link to the dice rolls in the descriptive text but don't include the rolls in the post. Those that are curious can always check what I rolled if they wish, but if this would reduce their immersion they're free to just go with it.

All that being said, I'm just as happy to have HM roll Perception checks for Halál when the situation warrants, and assume he's taking 10 unless he specifies that he's actively searching for traps or taking 20.

As far as initiative checks, I'm OK with you rolling and posting those as well, HM - just because you rolled for initiative doesn't mean we have to engage. And it could save an entire day (or more) in RL time.


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## GlassEye (Aug 28, 2011)

My issue seems to be somewhat different than what everyone else is discussing.  I don't mind the DM making certain rolls for me but I don't really care for the DM taking my charcter and having him act and speak when relaying that information to me.  Give me the information in an sblock and let me decide how I relate that information (if everyone doesn't get the same info that is).  Does that slow things down?  Yes, but this is one concession for speed that takes away from roleplaying _because I don't get to do any._  The DM has a whole world to manipulate, please, leave me my single mode of interaction.


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## HolyMan (Aug 29, 2011)

HA HA!! Mowgli I always press those links and not cause I want to know for sure or see what your rolling. It's just a button and must be pushed. 

Noted GE I do have reservations (every time I post in character for a PC), and I don't think the group here will post to slow. My thing was getting a link post for the runes to refer back to. Getting all the info in one post instead of "playing out" the searching of them, which could happen over several posts and take a week or more to boot.

Always remember I will give the relevant info in the link post and let you know that there is more to be found later.

What else...? Oh I will use the spoilers for info - I need a time limit to wait for (re)posting it to the others. What does everyone think 36-48 hours? That to account for the time difference. After two days I will post up the info (probably never on the weekends though) via the player, if not already done so.

perrinmiller you could make all the rolls you wish if you wish to search an area, but you only get one shot at beating a creature's stealth roll. (NOTE: The group is only as quiet as it's quietest member. So unless you are away from the party I would say sneaking isn't for the group.) But if you encounter a room and don't wish to take the time to take 20 in searching than you can roll as much as you like. Just let me know when you are done. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Sep 1, 2011)

A couple things - 

First a 24 hour (probably less) bump to get Mowgli to post an action, please. I will advance the thread tonight regardless, but I have reservations about taking any action as there are so many to chose from. LOL - Maybe when I know that character a little better.

And I just did your XP add on and guess what - Your all still first lvl. 

Ah but that isn't the news the news is you are 550XP from 2nd and according to my Additional XP rule you will be getting 500xp at the end of this month (it will be the sixth since we started). Add on the XP for this swarm and you all will be 2nd lvl no matter what else happens (um... save death). So an early congrats on that.

And to make the transition smooth maybe have your level ups worked out and ready so all you need do is add them in on Oct 1. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Sep 2, 2011)

Man, we are advancing so sloooooooooooow.  But still, if we make 2nd level in 6 months that is something.  Though, my PbP players in 3.5ed are just making 4th level after starting in the beginning of last summer.  They are not getting any time based awards like LPF, but I think they are moving a bit faster than we are.

Of course, things will pick up with more combats.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 4, 2011)

OK, dumb question.  I thought Channel Positive Energy would heal Eidolons. 

In Scourge of the Howling Horde when GE's Agno did it, I looked it up and did not find where it doesn't work.


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## Satin Knights (Sep 4, 2011)

Toddy is fully healed up by the channel positive energy.  Normal summoner's eidolons can be healed with channels and cure light wounds spells just fine.  It is only the synthesist that needs the special healing spells of the Rejuvenate Eidolon chain or the new Life Conduit chain in Ultimate Combat.


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## GlassEye (Sep 4, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> OK, dumb question.  I thought Channel Positive Energy would heal Eidolons.
> 
> In Scourge of the Howling Horde when GE's Agno did it, I looked it up and did not find where it doesn't work.




That actually threw me off when it happened.  I guess the existence of a specialized spell to heal eidolons made me think that that was the _only_ way they could be healed.  So I looked it up and, like you, the only thing I could find was the sentence that states they don't heal naturally.


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## Satin Knights (Sep 4, 2011)

Yeah.  Only the synthesist needs the special spells, and only because of the FAQ entry for Ultimate Magic.  A normal eidolon just doesn't heal, or heal ability damage, from rest or sleep.  Spells and channels work on the normal eidolon as his hit points are real.


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## HolyMan (Sep 4, 2011)

Learn something new everyday. I thought since they had their own healing spell and didn't "heal normally" and then learning about the systheist. Well this is still new (when did the APG come out? A year ago seems like yesterday.) to me.

So Toddy is at max will change that in the CT.

Also you have explored all the inner yard save for the northwest corner. the balcony there, and the back of the building.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Sep 5, 2011)

Glad I didn't screw that up then.  Thanks.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 21, 2011)

We appear to be hitting a lull.  No problems, I hope.

BTW, I received an offer letter today and I am scheduled to once again  join  the ranks of the employed on 26 Sep.  Good news for me and my  family,  bad news for those people without patience in the games I am  involved  in.  There will be days that I cannot always post in every game  that I  am in at EnWorld.  

But, I was going to become a once every two days poster after getting a   new job anyway.  Since any new job wasn't going to let me do PbP gaming   regardless.     But, I did trim some games away as well, giving  up my experiments with 4th edition and Mutants & Masterminds.

While I don't actually start until next week, I am still playing catch   up from a three day weekend, and we start a second one on Friday.    Assuming the Typhoon here in Tokyo has run out of steam and we have  little  league on that day, of course.  So I am already in this reduced   gameplaying state.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Sep 21, 2011)

That's great news, pm! Congrats!


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## GlassEye (Sep 21, 2011)

I second that!  Great that you've gotten an offer of employment.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 22, 2011)

Thanks.  I spread XP where I could.


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## rangerjohn (Sep 22, 2011)

Congratulations PM, speaking M's has anyone heard from our GM or should that be HM?  The only post I see from him in the past week, is welcoming M&L back.


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## GlassEye (Sep 22, 2011)

rangerjohn said:


> Congratulations PM, speaking M's has anyone heard from our GM or should that be HM?  The only post I see from him in the past week, is welcoming M&L back.




His status says he is quitting ENWorld.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 23, 2011)

GlassEye said:


> His status says he is quitting ENWorld.



I wonder who pissed in his cornflakes?  It wasn't me.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Sep 23, 2011)

Nor me. I sent him a PM and an e-mail yesterday but so far he's not responded.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 23, 2011)

Hmmm, his last post is actually mentioning being AFK for 2 days and also having difficulty loading pages from EnWorld.

I think he is just ticked off at the site itself.


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## GlassEye (Sep 23, 2011)

Heh, his inbox is probably flooded.  I sent HM a pm, too.  And I think perrin has the right of it.  I think HM has mentioned more than once his difficulty in getting around here particularly of late.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Sep 23, 2011)

Well, hopefully he'll change his mind.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 23, 2011)

Given the trouble with trying to reply to messages, I can understand his frustration.

How are you guys able to post without editing a quick reply?


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## Satin Knights (Sep 24, 2011)

Those that linked with Facebook seem to be working fine. 
And I have since found that switching the editor mode to source mode before submitting also works.


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## perrinmiller (May 7, 2012)

Checking back in.  I am still open to continue this game.  I still have kept Firvin's sheet.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 7, 2012)

I've still got Halál's sheet as well. I'm in, but only if it's OK with you and the others that I'm playing this AP with another group as well.


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## HolyMan (May 7, 2012)

Great!  2 out of 4 already is a good sign.

I don't mind if someone is playing the game in another group, things can go in a new direction or stuff added - like Jack - so there is no problem there.

Guess I need to get to rereading so I know what I was planning for the group.

HM


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## GlassEye (May 7, 2012)

I'm torn.  On one hand, I have been thinking about finding a non-LPF game to join.  But, I have two issues with restarting this game at this time: 1) my work schedule changes next week for the summer and I know the time I have available to dedicate to gaming will decrease. 2) I wasn't entirely happy with Gregori's mechanics.  Too many rounds of buffing necessary for him to get to full combat effectiveness.

So, at this instant I think I am more inclined to say 'Sorry, but no' although if I am wrong about how my schedule is going to affect my availability then that could change.


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## Satin Knights (May 8, 2012)

I am over extended running two games and playing three others.  So I shouldn't.  But, I usually don't let bad ideas stop me, so, about a 90% yes.

I am happy with letting you rewrite Gregori.  We are still first level after all. Aren't we?  I forgot where our character sheets are at.


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## GlassEye (May 9, 2012)

LINK and still on the first page of the Rogues Gallery (as of this moment, anyways).


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## perrinmiller (May 9, 2012)

If need be, Plan B:

We can recruit a replacement.  Since we sort of coordinated roles, I can rework Firvin into something different to switch what Gregory was covering and allow for a recruit to have more flexibility.

I already have Firvin (as a summoner) in play so I am not terribly attached to her for this game if that is for the best.


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## HolyMan (May 9, 2012)

Glad everyone is about and we can get the group reworked. And as to posting speed this may be slower than what your use to from me as I still need to get into a groove myself.

___________________________________

Please take a couple weeks to work on your characters as a group and also *level up*. That may help on some of your decisions and will serve to let me know when you all are ready.
____________________________________

We ended during a combat but I think I will have it posted that you fell back regrouped and then took and went back into Harrowstone.

Sound good?

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 17, 2012)

HM & GE;

Sort of hard to work on things without knowing what to plan for.  I did have someone who is interested and Qik would be a good fit to play with us if GE has to bow out.  I mentioned the possibility and he is game if we will have him.  Not sure if HM has dealt with him much, but the rest of us have.

-PM


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## GlassEye (May 17, 2012)

I'm pretty sure this is not the right time for me to be picking up another game.  Qik is awesome and I highly recommend him to take over my spot.  Sorry, and I hope you all have a great time with this!


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## perrinmiller (May 18, 2012)

Not having enough time is something I need to consider more often. 

I have been trading PMs with Qik, I will keep going in that vein until HM chimes in to bless things.


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## Satin Knights (May 18, 2012)

I am happy with Qik joining in.


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2012)

I have NP with having [MENTION=6673727]Qik[/MENTION] join are little game. 

Sorry to see you go GE will hopefully will get in a game together over at the LPF.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 18, 2012)

I'd also love to see Qik join us.

With the options that have come out since we went on hiatus, and with GE leaving us, could we consider a party re-work? In looking over Halál, I'm just not 'feeling' him like I used to. I still want to go Inquisitor, but maybe combine with a different class. And definitely not Tengu - I just can't get a bird mindset for RP.


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2012)

I wouldn't be opposed to a re-working of the group. We wouldn't restart the game but thed new group would start at the gates to Harrowstone on the trail of The Whispering Way.

Again discuss as a group if this is what you would like then let me know.

HM


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## Qik (May 18, 2012)

Hey All!  My thanks for having me aboard - I've *always* wanted to play Carrion Crown, so it's nice to have the opportunity to do so with such a good group.

I'm still turning over ideas for my character.  I'd prefer to play a front-line melee-er, which seems like it would fit well into the group as it stands, changes pending.  Before I start throwing out the specifics, HM, do you have any character creation guidelines I can look to?  Are you opposed to any classes/sources/archetypes?  How about races?  etc etc.

Really looking forward to it!  Thanks again for having me join you.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 19, 2012)

Hey, Qik! Welcome aboard! You can find the Gestalt rules we used here. It was a 15 point buy, and HM had a system to award extra point buy points at the end of each module. The discussions should be somewhere near the beginning of this thread, but I'm not sure exactly where.

I may end up sticking with Inquisitor//Rogue, but was considering combining Inq with Fighter or Barbarian. One nice thing about Gestalt is everyone can get a good Melee (or Ranged) class along with a "party role."


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## Qik (May 19, 2012)

Many thanks, Mowgli.  That clears up some questions (I had wondered how multiclassing worked - sensible solution).

My dream build at the moment is probably a Summoner//Lore Warden, with a bipedal, polearm-wielding eidolon.  I think that'd be hella fun, but I also recognize that that'd be encroaching on Satin Knights' territory.  So I'm trying to find alternatives.

I had thought of a Synthesist//Fighter (Brawler), but I'm not convinced with the character ideas that I've had associated with that sort of a build.  So I'm still thinking.

I've had the idea for a switch hitter alchemist for a while, but I'm not sure if I could pull it off satisfactorily with a 15 point buy, although obviously gestalt helps a bit on that.

Edit: also, I'm curious - if choosing two spellcasting classes isn't allowed, how do we have a Summoner//Cleric and Sorcerer//Bard?


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 19, 2012)

Oh, yeah! I forgot about that part. I originally put this take on Gestalt in place for one of my games; if I remember right HM and the others didn't have my concerns about the power curve with combining two casting classes so it was decided to toss that part. 

In addition to my power curve worries, I put that in because I use HeroLab to manage my games and there's no way to make a Gestalt class in HL that combines two casting classes.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 19, 2012)

I actually find the point buy _more_ limiting with Gestalt, because it's hard to find combinations that I like that aren't MAD.


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## Qik (May 19, 2012)

Yeah, that's kind of how I was feeling, which is probably why I like the idea of going fighter on one side - that's about as un-MAD as you can get with a martial class.


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## Satin Knights (May 20, 2012)

Don't worry about stepping on my toes.  Marshan and Toddy, the battle llama, are headed down the precise strike flank attack path.  

Synthesist//Ranger-Skirmisher has definite front line strengths.  The Lore Warden build looks interesting as well.  Either as a summoner or a synthesist.  Play anything you want.  We have healing and weapons.  So, the necessities are covered.


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## Qik (May 20, 2012)

Thanks, SK.  I'll keep brainstorming, but I think in that case I'll likely go Summoner//Lore Warden.  

Also, minor question: how did you all settle on doing HP upon leveling?  I'd seen the discussion earlier in this thread, but didn't see a conclusion.

Edit: Another question - could the human alternative racial trait "Eye for Talent" be applied to the eidolon?

Question 3: Should I purchase my gear assuming WBL for 2?

Thanks for weathering all my questions!


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## Qik (May 21, 2012)

I might end up having Loh (my PC) and/or Kih (my eidolon) take Precise Strike as well.  Having four of us running around with it would be wicked.

Right now I'm waffling on whether to take Maneuver Master or Lore Warden opposite vanilla Summoner.  There are advantages to each.  I was kind of hoping to play the characters Chaotic Good, though, so that would rule out the monk, especially the eidolon, whom I picture as a shoot-first-ask-questions-later type.  We'll see.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 21, 2012)

Crap - forgot all about leveling up! I'm keeping the same character classes, but changing my race to Dwarf. That'll mean a rework of ability scores and equipment, but I'll still fill the same role in the party as before so impact on the game should be minimal.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 21, 2012)

OK, got the rework and level up done, but it's not posted yet 'cause I'm at work and using my phone to post.

Took a level dip in Fighter for the Fortitude bump, feat and weapon proficiencies.


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## HolyMan (May 21, 2012)

Qik said:


> Thanks, SK.  I'll keep brainstorming, but I think in that case I'll likely go Summoner//Lore Warden.
> 
> Also, minor question: how did you all settle on doing HP upon leveling?  I'd seen the discussion earlier in this thread, but didn't see a conclusion.




I believe we went for MAX-2 (for highest HD class) after the initial 1st lvl HP



Qik said:


> Edit: Another question - could the human alternative racial trait "Eye for Talent" be applied to the eidolon?




Since you lose the bonus human feat that seems a fair swap to me.



Qik said:


> Question 3: Should I purchase my gear assuming WBL for 2?




No you should purchase as stated in the character gene. Then the group should divide up the Loot from the False Tomb once more.



Qik said:


> Thanks for weathering all my questions!




NP, Sorry it took so long. My posting rate won't be what it once was till I figure out a better groove.




Mowgli said:


> OK, got the rework and level up done, but it's not posted yet 'cause I'm at work and using my phone to post.
> 
> Took a level dip in Fighter for the Fortitude bump, feat and weapon proficiencies.




Sounds good. No one looks to have leveled up yet. I think perrinmiller still wanted to discuss party roles and such.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 21, 2012)

It looks like Qik is sticking with filling GE's role, and Mowgli is not switching around much.

Firvin is still fine as a Sorcerer/Bard.  I did have her into another game, but that one is stalled out now so its all good either way.

Let's see if I remember this right before I alter her sheet.

Leveling up:
Sorcerer/Bard-2
BAB +1, +1 Reflex, +1 Will, +7HP
+2 Rounds Bardic Performance
Versatile Performance (Sing) for Bluff and Sense Motive. (Re-allocating previously spent SP in those skills since I had not thought that was going to be redundant.)
Well-versed
Spells Known; +1 Bard Cantrip, +1 Sorcerer Cantrip, +1 Bard 1st level
Spells per day; +1 Bard 1st level & +1 Sorcerer 1st level
Skill Points: +8


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## Qik (May 21, 2012)

Thanks for the answers, HM.



HolyMan said:


> No you should purchase as stated in the character gene. Then the group should divide up the Loot from the False Tomb once more.




Just to confirm I understand you correctly - if I go fighter/summoner, say, then max is 300+50=350?

And I should only use that (i.e. any divided up funds will be received at a later date)?

Just making sure I'm following.



HolyMan said:


> NP, Sorry it took so long. My posting rate won't be what it once was till I figure out a better groove.




No worries there.  I'm a bit wonked myself at the moment.  

Did you have any target date for starting back up?  I still have a few decisions to make, but I should be able to finalize things soon.


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## Qik (May 22, 2012)

Sorry for the continued questions, HM....  

Would you allow the Lore Warden archetype?  No sweat if not, but I wanted to ask.  

Many thanks.


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## HolyMan (May 22, 2012)

NP on the Lore Warden - an archtype that should have been in Ultimate Magic don't you think?

Yes a fighter/summoner would have 350gp to spend.

I wish to divide up that loot before we start - doing that here in the ooc - in the IC I was thinking of having the two new characters meeting with the entire old group then while Halál and Gregori go off to investigate something important (not sure yet but they would both become NPCs) the new group would head back to Harrowstone once more. (Halál and Gregori would then put the looted items back into the mix to be divided as they will be needed at Harrowstone.)

That would give us some RP with the new - refresh ourselves with the old - and then tackle the dungeon once more.

Still up in the air anyone else have an idea? I'm sure the Professor met more than just the four of you named in the will and others might like to look into his "mysterious" death.

Looking for a Start this time next week if we can swing it.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 22, 2012)

Oohhh - I was actually planning on keeping the old name along with the old class (and most of the old history). Basically changing out his race and calling him the same character.

Would that be too jarring? I figured since it's been so long it wouldn't be too bad.


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## HolyMan (May 22, 2012)

NP Mowgli

I can work with that as well.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 22, 2012)

If Qik sticks with the name Gregori, then that works too. 

Anyone see anything wrong on Frivin's level up items?  If not I can edit her sheet and be ready to go.


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## Qik (May 22, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> NP on the Lore Warden - an archtype that should have been in Ultimate Magic don't you think?
> 
> Yes a fighter/summoner would have 350gp to spend.
> 
> ...




Yeah, the Lore Warden is one of the more interesting Fighter archetypes, IMO.  Deserves to be from a more central source.

My thinking with Loh is that her eidolon had always been an imaginary friend of sorts, that only she could see, but manifested in full in a time of need, helping her escape from (a wrongful) imprisonment.  Since then, she's been on the run, and having heard about the professor as an expert in arcanic curiosities, she got in touch with him to see if he could explain her eidolon's origins.  The two grew to be close.  Her lying low would explain the professor's omitting her from his will - didn't want to draw any undue attention to her.  But once she got word, she went to find out more anyway.

I don't know much about why the PCs are where they are at the moment, though, so maybe somebody else can a) give me a brief rundown and b) suggest a reason for her showing up there.  Perhaps Loh went to see Kendra, and Kendra recommended she catch up with you guys?

Starting this time next week sounds good to me; might even be ready to roll earlier (though of course we can start whenever).

And as you can see, I will _not_ be taking the name Gregori.


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## Satin Knights (May 22, 2012)

Firvin's updates look fine.
Marshan and Toddy's updates are done.  The only thing I am missing is the treasure split, which I should be able to find in the posts somewhere.

Showing up a week late for the funeral, Kendra says she has people trying to figure out why her father died.  Since she knows where we were going, she sends you on, with to raspberry tarts for Toddy, so that we know she sent you.  She also gives you a cryptic warning.  "What ever you do, do not buy boredom."

A quick run down:  We showed up.  We get blamed for everything going wrong. We save people's lives, but still are not appreciated much. Marshan gets a good reputation with the sheriff by answering questions like a soldier, straight simple facts.    More than that, well I will have to go reread what we did in the IC thread.  There are four threads.  In Character, Combat Thread (which is distilled by HM and highlights are copied back to the IC thread), OOC(here), and the Rogue's Gallery for character stats.

FYI: Your eidolon doesn't get HP as LPF.  He gains them as if this was PFS or he was a standard bestiary beast.  So, 6 for first level + 7 at second for 13 total.  Loh's would be 10+4+Con+FC+8+Con+FC.

Marshan and Toddy don't have Precise Strike yet, but will be taking it as their feat at third level.  Marshan didn't qualify at first level, but Loh doesn't suffer from that problem.


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## Qik (May 23, 2012)

Thanks for the rundown, SK.  Raspberry tarts sounds good, but Kee (Loh's eidolon) might sneak one of those en route.  We'll see.  

Here's what I have thus far.  Some of it's pretty raw (might rejig Loh's stats to reduce the odd numbers, for instance), but it's indicative.

[sblock=Loh & Kee]Loh Janna

Chaotic Good Half-elf Summoner//Lore Warden 2

Str 16 (5) +2 racial
Dex 14 (5)
Con 11 (1)
Int 13 (3)
Wis 8 (-2)
Cha 13 (3)

HP 21 (not including Toughness)
AC 16 Touch 12 Flat-footed 14 (+4 Armor, +2 Dex)
Fort +3 Ref +0 Will +4 (+6 vs enchantments)
BAB +2

Racial Abilities:
- Low-light vision
- Keen Senses (+2 Perception)
- Dual-Minded (+2 Will saves)
- Elven Immunities (Immune to Sleep, +2 vs enchantments)

Feats:
- Toughness? Combat Reflexes? (level 1)
- Weapon Focus (Horsechopper) (fighter 1)
- Improved Trip (fighter 2)
- Combat Expertise (fighter 2 bonus)
- Improved Dirty Trick (level 3)
- Weapon Specialization (Horsechopper) (fighter 4)

Skills: 5/10
- Knowledge (Arcana) +5 (1 rank + 1 Int + 3 CS)
- Knowledge (Local) +5 (1 rank + 1 Int + 3 CS)
- Knowledge (Nature) +5 (1 rank + 1 Int + 3 CS)
- Knowledge (Religion) +6 (2 ranks + 1 Int + 3 CS)
- Perception +1 (-1 Wis + 2 Keen Senses)

Summoner Spells:
- 0 (infinite): Acid Splash, Detect Magic, Light, Guidance, ? (Drench?)
- 1 (3/day): Mage Armor, Lesser Rejuvinate Eidolon, Shield 

Gear: MW Chain Shirt (100 gp), MW Horsechopper (10 gp), Heavy Flail (15 gp)

------------------------------
------------------------------
Kih Lah-Lah-Lah

Bipedal Eidolon 2

Str 19
Dex 13 
Con 13 
Int 7 
Wis 10 
Cha 11 

HP 13
AC 17 Touch 11 Flat-footed 16 (+6 natural armor, +1 Dex)
Fort +4 Ref +0 Will +3
BAB +2

- MW Lucerne Hammer +7

Evolutions (4 pts): limbs (legs) (free), limbs (arms) (free), claws (free), Ability Increase (Str) (2), Improved Natural Armor (1), Skilled (Acrobatics)?

Feats:
- Martial Weapon Proficiency (Lucerne Hammer)

Skills: 6/8
**Extra Class Skills: Acrobatics, Disguise, Intimidate, ?
- Acrobatics +6 (2 ranks + 1 Dex + 3 CS)
- Perception +5 (2 ranks +0 Wis +3 CS)
- Survival +5 (2 ranks + 0 Wis + 3 CS)


Gear: MW Lucerne Hammer (15 gp)[/sblock]
Also, I've really been waffling about swapping Maneuver Master in for Lore Warden.  Flurry of Maneuvers is just awesome, and I feel there will be some added versatility in there.  Of course that lessons Loh's straight-up combat studliness, in terms of raw damage.  But the free combat maneuver during a full attack might help to mitigate that.

The added complication is that I really like the idea of Kee, the eidolon, being chaotic good or chaotic neutral.  Loh's personality is presently more malleable, but my conception for Kee really wants her to be chaotic (in a silly way, not a disruptive one).   

Any thoughts?

Don't mean to drag my feet on this; just thinking out loud here.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 23, 2012)

Halál's got Precise Strike now - that's one of the reasons I took the Fighter dip. He'll dual wield a Dwarven War Axe and a throwing axe. Got his background re-fluffed in the RG, now I've just gotta get his main sheet redone.


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## Qik (May 23, 2012)

Mowgli said:


> Halál's got Precise Strike now - that's one of the reasons I took the Fighter dip. He'll dual wield a Dwarven War Axe and a throwing axe. Got his background re-fluffed in the RG, now I've just gotta get his main sheet redone.





Maybe I'll have Loh take Precise Strike, too.  That way we all have options in that regard.


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## HolyMan (May 23, 2012)

perrinmiller said:


> Anyone see anything wrong on Frivin's level up items?  If not I can edit her sheet and be ready to go.




Just make note that you  used the favored class point for +1HP. I had to work a little to figure that out. Level up looks good.



Qik said:


> I don't know much about why the PCs are where they are at the moment, though, so maybe somebody else can a) give me a brief rundown and b) suggest a reason for her showing up there.  Perhaps Loh went to see Kendra, and Kendra recommended she catch up with you guys?




We can use the whole late to the party play. The group is back outside the gates to the grounds. I updated the RG map and am about to do XP.

I will have Gergori play the bodyguard and stay outside. Someone has to be able to come rescue you all if you don't come out again.

Only thing left will be the loot. I'm going to go searching the thread to see what was discussed before. Need to get some use out of this membership.

HM


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## HolyMan (May 23, 2012)

perrinmiller said:


> Firvin would take 4 +1 Arrows, unless another archer wants them all (which I am fine with).  4 Silver arrows (or more if there is no other interest).
> 
> She will take two flasks of Holy Water (I suggest we get/make some more ?).  2d6 dmg vs. undead is nothing to sneeze at.
> 
> ...






Mowgli said:


> Gregori can probably make the best use of the Holy Water (Throw Anything feat and adds his INT to splash weapon damage).
> 
> Halál will take whatever arrows, holy water, etc. the group wishes him to have. For close combat he's got his Disrupt Undead cantrip in addition to his more mundane combat stuff.






Satin Knights said:


> It helps to recheck our inventory occasionally.  We do have the means to fix Toddy.  Whew!




Here's what I found out. looks like the loot never truly got finish being divided out. Maybe I should check the IC thread as well.

And looks like one of the lesser restoration potions was used.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 25, 2012)

I updated Firvin's character sheet (marked the spending of the FC bonus).  I also noticed that she has her share of the treasure split on it from before.  So I at least knew what she took.


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## Qik (May 26, 2012)

Threw up what I have thus far in the Rogue Gallery thread.  Still have a few decisions to make (traits, one evolution for Kee, and various misc. equipment purchases), but I'm otherwise finished.  Will get those details sorted ASAP.


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## HolyMan (May 27, 2012)

Gave the character(s) a Qik glance  and looks good so far.

Will go into a more detailed one tomorrow and hopefully start us up on MON night.

HM


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## Qik (May 27, 2012)

Thanks, HM.  Sounds good.

I'll go through and pretty it up as time allows, and also make a distinction between the feats currently taken and those there for the future.  I had just wanted to throw up what I had as a demonstration of progress, if for no other reason.  It's the sister-in-law's wedding this weekend, so that's eating up some of my gaming time.


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## Qik (May 27, 2012)

Spoke too soon, I guess: the sheet has eaten up my morning.  

Pretty much done at this point.  Still second-guessing a decision or three, like always, but Loh and Kee ready to roll/role.


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## Qik (May 27, 2012)

Hope no one minds, but I threw up a post in the IC thread.  Had some downtime today, and it seemed like a nice way to introduce Loh and Kee a bit.


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## perrinmiller (May 28, 2012)

Looks good Qik.


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## Qik (May 29, 2012)

Thanks, PM.  I'm looking forward to developing the banter between those two.  Not to mention that with everyone else!


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## HolyMan (May 30, 2012)

Qik said:


> Hope no one minds, but I threw up a post in the IC thread.  Had some downtime today, and it seemed like a nice way to introduce Loh and Kee a bit.




Nope I never mind time for RP. 

I only had one reservation in the post and that was the word ascertained. 

With an INT of 7 it seemed... um.... large. Not that she couldn't know what it means but maybe when Kee does play the smart card Loh should be there with a "I knew you would find a use for that word once I taught you what it meant." or some such.

I would also like to see the low Wis of Loh's vs the higher of Kee's played out. That might be fun as well.

HM


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## Qik (May 30, 2012)

Yeah, I had thought about that point as I wrote the dialogue.  

If I'm being honest, if a character's stats conflict with my inclination for them, I generally have a hard time letting the stats win.  But since you raise the point, I'll try to be conscientious of it.

I definitely see Kee as potentially parroting Loh, or perhaps better, as being an extension of Loh in such a way as to have access to a more intelligent vocabulary at times.  But in Kee, that gets muddled and mixed as it manifests.

I'm glad you raised the points; good food for thought as I develop the pair.  I see a lot of potential for them.


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## Maidhc O Casain (May 31, 2012)

OK, the revamped Halál Árnyéka is finally completely updated and (I think) ready to go, complete with new pictures. Turns out I had the portions of magic that he got in the split as well, so they're listed.


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## Qik (May 31, 2012)

Looks good, Mowgli.

At the moment, Precise Strike is on my very short list of feats to have Kee take at level 3 - having 4 with the feat running around would give ample opportunities to set it up.  I'll also probably take Improved Dirty Trick for Loh next level - I want to have an alternative combat maneuver to trip, and dirty tricks would open up another way for Halál to sneak attack.

Just keeping everyone abreast of my thinking.


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## perrinmiller (May 31, 2012)

HM, do you mind if we not use the separate combat thread anymore?  It was an idea and we tried it.

But frankly, I am so used to just role-playing things through in combat and hiding mechanics is spoiler blocks that is just weird to have it separate.  

That's just me, but at least most of us are not the type that only post mechanics when in combat like several unnamed veterans here at EnWorld that I won't play with ever again if I can help it.


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## HolyMan (May 31, 2012)

I was going to ask after we got back to the prison what everyone preferred. The big reason behind the CT thread was to keep from having a lot of OOC sblocks full of rules questions, map questions, and such in the IC thread.

Just take a look at the last page of the CT for what I mean. 

So long as we can keep the questions to the OOC I'm fine with not using the CT.

HM


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## perrinmiller (May 31, 2012)

Not a problem, having two OOC threads is one too many as well. 

I will even put actions and dice rolls into the one spoiler block I have for mini-stats.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 1, 2012)

Never mind.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 4, 2012)

Qik said:


> Just a small point: Kee's wings remain covered so as  not to completely freak out the locals.  I think I'd mentioned that  somewhere in her write-up in the RG, but there's no real way you would  have known that.  So I just figured I'd mention it here.



Sorry, forgot about that.  I took out the word since it wasn't important.


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## Qik (Jun 4, 2012)

No worries.  No real reason you should of known that, so don't mind me dinging you for it.


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## HolyMan (Jun 11, 2012)

Bump to get a general consensus on a general direction.

I am ready for any contingency (and if not I'll act like I was).

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 11, 2012)

I have been waiting on Mowgli to post before posting again.  Otherwise, we will probably follow Kalgor (er... I mean Marshan ).


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 11, 2012)

The dwarf's still a little flummoxed by the new arrivals - go ahead and follow Marshan and Toddy. He'll find his tongue soon enough, I'm sure


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## HolyMan (Jun 11, 2012)

Well then if there are no objections I will move the IC forward tonight and have the group start back up the stairs to the balcony. 

I would sharpen those blades if I were you. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Jun 14, 2012)

IC is updated...

HM


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## HolyMan (Jun 16, 2012)

Firvin is up and the creature is grappled.  So touch AC is down to 10.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 16, 2012)

I posted.  But with -4 into melee, and cover, I think I missed.


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## Satin Knights (Jun 19, 2012)

I think we are trying to keep in initiative order, so I have been waiting on [MENTION=29558]Mowgli[/MENTION] to post Halal's actions.  I saw that the Internet Deadlands were slowing him up over the weekend.


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## HolyMan (Jun 19, 2012)

Don't know what you mean about Deadlands I just thought it was the usual weekend slowness.

I don't think whatever he does would effect Toddy going if you want to try a pin maneuver or something.

HM


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## Satin Knights (Jun 19, 2012)

Well, Marshan hit but didn't get through DR.  I will give Loh a chance before Toddy tries a pin.  Fastest way to take this down is probably repeat Disrupt Undead casting.  Marshan cannot grow and have room to swing his hammer, so he will only occasionally be doing damage.

Internet Deadlands = He was going somewhere without signal for the weekend.


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## HolyMan (Jun 19, 2012)

Satin Knights said:


> Internet Deadlands = He was going somewhere without signal for the weekend.




That's still possible in this day and age - Get out of here! 

HM


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## HolyMan (Jun 20, 2012)

*Note to self:* I don't believe I have ever seen one of Mowgli's characters hit in melee. 

Strange. 

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 20, 2012)

It's some sort of cosmic conspiracy, I think. I used to actually get upset about it, but now I take some masochistic pleasure in griping about it, (usually) good naturedly.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 20, 2012)

I think Pari/Tag were the same way.  Missing when things mattered, but then hitting once the tide of batter turned.  Invis castle hates you, dude.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 20, 2012)

Sadly, the ENWorld roller treats me the same way. I should just always name my characters Eeyore


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 20, 2012)

Or maybe just make a character wholly, completely and entirely dependent on the party for his safety who doesn't have any weapons at his disposal - all he "carries" are buffs, debuffs, healing and a kick-ass skill set.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 20, 2012)

Mowgli said:


> Or maybe just make a character wholly, completely and entirely dependent on the party for his safety who doesn't have any weapons at his disposal - all he "carries" are buffs, debuffs, healing and a kick-ass skill set.



I thought that's what Bren is.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 20, 2012)

Well, he started off that way but I gave in and took those four levels of Monk . We'll see how he turns out - I had to fight pretty hard to keep from trying to hit the Wrathspawn and use a buff instead.


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## Qik (Jun 20, 2012)

And the zings are flying! 

I tried to play a Sensei once - I found it hard to do.  I'd like to play a primarily-buffer PC at some point, but I think I'd need to ensure the right mindset.  I imagine they could be awesome if built right.


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## HolyMan (Jun 20, 2012)

I'm playing a character now that is suppose to be a follower and not a leader and find that simply the hardest thing to do.

While I (HM) have all kinds of ideas of how to handle a situation he (the PC) wouldn't suggest a one. Hard to sit about on ones hands.

Haven't got into combat yet.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 20, 2012)

On an unrelated note (but more relevant to the current game), is it necessary to take the -4 penalty for firing into melee when one is using an effect that has absolutely no chance of harming one's allies? Disrupt Undead *can't* hurt us . . .


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## HolyMan (Jun 20, 2012)

I think it would be the same modifier as shooting into melee with a bow or crossbow. The penalty is for taking your time and trying to hit the opponent at just the right moment.

As with the fluff I posted that the ray tickled Toddy it's because he moved in the way as he was fighting the monster.

On another note. The creature is pinned and that means..

- Creature is Flat-Footed (AC starts at 10)
- Additional -4 to AC for melee (AC is now 6 for melee)

Just have to beat it's hardness before it escapes.

HM


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## Qik (Jun 20, 2012)

Blech.  Of course I exactly match a 10!


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## perrinmiller (Jun 21, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> I'm playing a character now that is suppose to be a follower and not a leader and find that simply the hardest thing to do.



Markas?



Mowgli said:


> On an unrelated note (but more relevant to the  current game), is it necessary to take the -4 penalty for firing into  melee when one is using an effect that has absolutely no chance of  harming one's allies? Disrupt Undead *can't* hurt us . . .



I thought about asking that too.  But, it is not just about trying not  to harm our friends.  It is about not hitting our friends instead of the  target.  Effectively they get a form of soft cover if it makes you feel  better.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 21, 2012)

perrinmiller said:


> I thought about asking that too.  But, it is not just about trying not  to harm our friends.  It is about not hitting our friends instead of the  target.  Effectively they get a form of soft cover if it makes you feel  better.




Yeah, I turned it over in my head a few times and I can see it both ways - I'm honestly good with whichever way my current GM rules as the same protection would be applied for us when the "bad guys" are shooting into melee.

Just for the sake of discussion, though, I _do_ think that that logic breaks down when you start asking why your single target doesn't get the same soft cover rules when he's within 5' of _his_ allies instead of yours. Aren't you still trying to hit just him and not his allies? If you miss your target (except with a splash weapon) it's just assumed that your missile flies off into the distance rather than hitting a different enemy. So if there's no "danger" of hitting someone other than your target then, why does that danger suddenly exist if it's your friends (as long as there's no threat of harm to them)?


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## HolyMan (Jun 21, 2012)

Couple things could apply. 

One - the target isn't in combat with his allies. They say you are constantly moving when in melee even though the mini's are stationary. Makes it harder to hit the exact target.

Two - You don't care enough to take the time to aim like you do when you don't want to hit a friend. You just take your shot not caring if it hits your enemies allies.

Three - To make it simple. Like other rules that don't follow the way the real world works. Like casting lightning bolt at a pond full of bullywugs.

Loh and Toddy are up if someone can get in 4 hp of damage this thing just might go down.

HM


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jun 21, 2012)

As I said, I'm fine with either ruling. But of the three reasons you listed, number three is the only one that doesn't break down under scrutiny (and is likely the "real" one ).

01 - Already covered by AC rules (if they're not moving, they're flat footed).
02 - If it's not going to hurt your allies, you wouldn't care whether or not you hit them accidentally.

But it is _definitely_ simpler to leave it "as is."


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## Satin Knights (Jun 21, 2012)

Toddy can't break DR unless he crits, so he went with the Aid Another.  It is easier on his teeth. Well, there's no help that will get a nat 1 to hit. 

Toddy was distracting enough Kee went instead of Loh, but the result is just the same.


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## Qik (Jun 21, 2012)

Sorry, I got confused there; people were a bit out of order.  But yup, still a miss.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 22, 2012)

I jumped the gun since I did not want you all to wait 24 hours for Firvin if didn't.  I did find time to post some at EnW this morning though.


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## Qik (Jun 23, 2012)

Sorry about the delay!  I made the mistake of checking my game email before work, and then forgot to update once I got home.


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## perrinmiller (Jun 24, 2012)

The aid another for Firvin's attack is possibly wasted. Can Disrupt Undead be a melee touch attack as well?  Seems logical, but I am not sure.

Does Firvin get AC bonus from cover provided stone slab.  I am just confirming that she won't provoke an AoO from the Sythe if she casts a spell.


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## HolyMan (Jun 24, 2012)

Don't think its wasted. You can 5' step and cast.

Aid Another seems to work for any attack roll made, so long as the melee to start with is met.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 24, 2012)

Okay, sounds correct.  I just assumed it meant melee.

What about the cover issue?  Firvin should be protected against AoO so she doesn't need to step back to avoid one.


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## HolyMan (Jun 24, 2012)

It is close to a low obstacle and could provide cover if the scythe weren't floating just above it.

I probably should have listed it as difficult terrain as it is only where they beheaded prisoners so isn't overly tall. I'll be sure to list things in the future.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jun 25, 2012)

Thanks.  I would like that information in the future.

It would have made a difference. She would not have been so close had I known that.


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## HolyMan (Jun 25, 2012)

Qik you may go ahead and go for Kee 

I'm off to work right now so will update as soon as I can.

HM


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## Qik (Jun 25, 2012)

Apologies for the delay; Monday is busy for me until mid-afternoon.

Pretty sure that hit if the scythe is pinned, but not 100%, so I didn't want to prematurely celebrate IC.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 2, 2012)

Satin Knights said:


> "That's why I knotted the rope and will be holding the bottom still.  It's easy to climb."  "If you got hands!"  "Hush, You're going the express route anyways."
> 
> ooc: The DC is down to zero. You can't fail unless you are in full plate mail.




Aww, but then he will be looking at Firvin's butt the whole way up.


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## Satin Knights (Jul 2, 2012)

And Kee's.  And Loh's.  That's what you get for wearing a skirt to a dungeon.


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## Qik (Jul 2, 2012)

Loh's not wearing a skirt.  Kee's an outsider, so who knows what it looks like under there.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 3, 2012)

Hello Kitty panties.


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## Qik (Jul 13, 2012)

Are we waiting on anything in particular?


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## perrinmiller (Jul 14, 2012)

I think Mowgli and SK are ready, just too busy to post up a participation entry, perhaps.  I have seen everyone around and playing.


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## Satin Knights (Jul 14, 2012)

Mowgli's got the rogue.  So, I was waiting on him to check for a trap.  If we are going down another ladder, not bothering to resummon Toddy just yet.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 14, 2012)

Sorry - got a bit lost, and now I'm in the Deadlands (at the lake, posting this from my phone). I'll post up tonight - sorry again!


----------



## Qik (Jul 26, 2012)

Apologies for the delay - I've been playing catch-up.  Should be more regular, now.


----------



## Qik (Jul 29, 2012)

If it helps, Mowgli, Loh'll be taking Improved Dirty Trick at level 3 in the hopes of helping Halal out.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 29, 2012)

Sorry, busy weekend, I will post later today once I get home.


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## Maidhc O Casain (Jul 29, 2012)

Qik said:


> If it helps, Mowgli, Loh'll be taking Improved Dirty Trick at level 3 in the hopes of helping Halal out.




No worries - I'm indulging in one of my favorite pass-times (griping about my abysmally bad luck ).


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## perrinmiller (Jul 29, 2012)

If you miss by one, don't forget I have Timely Inspiration.


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## perrinmiller (Jul 30, 2012)

Sorry, I was busy with little league lasting until 10pm and delayed all my EnW posting from Saturday to Sunday.


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## HolyMan (Jul 31, 2012)

NP I probably should have told everyone to wait, but like I said I played on your normal posting rate.

What I couldn't see was the random roll as to whom to target would coming up to be Toddy, and he would have an abysmal WILL save. And be key to just about every other action after his.

From here on out The combat should run 

Skeletons
Firvin
Others wait for Piper

I hope it doesn't slow us down to much but his ability and if a player saves or not really has an effect on what the rest of the group does.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 3, 2012)

Updating my games but have no idea what Firvin would do besides maintain the bardic performance.

I read somewhere perrinmiller is under the weather. GET WELL SOON.

In case he doesn't make it back or have time  to post, is there  any ideas form the rest of you guys?

Will update tomorrow night, give him an extra day.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 3, 2012)

I posted that in a place I knew you all would see it. 

I musta failed on secondary Fort Save too and suffered 3 Con & 3 Str  Damage and I am still resting to get back  to full strength.  Nasty  disease.  I am starting to slowly catch up.

Firvin needs to 5ft step to E18 or E19.  That means delaying until after the Piper.  Such as Marshan goes, then Loh, then Firvin, then Kee.


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## Qik (Aug 3, 2012)

All:

I'm sorry to say that I'm afraid I'm going to have to bow out of this game.  I hate doing so so abruptly/unceremoniously, but there are a number of factors that led me to decided to do so.  RL is a bit of a time-consuming beast for me right now, so I'm trying to shave back my gaming.  I already feel like I'm neglecting my judging duties for LPF, so I have to look elsewhere to lean back.  Sorry to drop out in the midst of a dungeon crawl, but with the way the next month+ will be for me busy-wise, it couldn't be much helped.

Again, sorry to drop out like this.  Happy gaming; I'll see you all around in LPF.

- Q.


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## HolyMan (Aug 4, 2012)

Sorry to hear the RL Monster has got you by the breeches. 

NP, I know all to well what that is like. Hope to see and play with you over at the LPF. I still need to get my other two characters in a game.

For the rest of you the IC is updated. Loh was targeted by the Piper and managed her saves.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 4, 2012)

Considering we are all in the LPF, Judging and/or DMing I don't see why we cannot wait the 6 weeks for things to change for you, Qik.  Even if you are only able to post limited frequency after that, you are not in a much different situation than the rest of us.  

I am not sure which of Kee or Loh would close into Marshan's spot, so I think Firvin needs to wait for both of them to make a hole. - did not read the full IC post.

Halal forgot the Inspire Courage damage, I think.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 6, 2012)

HM, are either of those saves charm or fear effects, receiving the +1 from Inspire Courage?

What about Firvin's +2 Saves vs. Enchantments?


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## Maidhc O Casain (Aug 6, 2012)

I did forget the IC damage last round . . . not this round, though!

Also, if the mysterious Piper's attacks are subject to spell resistance, Halál's is 7. IF they are and he didn't overcome SR last round, those crit confirms are +2 to hit.


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## HolyMan (Aug 7, 2012)

The first effect isn't a spell or spell like. So even though it doesn't say it is I believe it to be a Supernatural Ability.

It does give the PC a fear effect so the Inspire Courage I will allow. Sorry that didn't help Firvin resist it.

The second effect is a spell -_hold person_- so Firvin gets her enchantment bonus (and then the -2 for being shaken) that is why I said make the roll at +3

SK - please make another Will save for Toddy just label it "After Effects" please.


HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 7, 2012)

Thanks, HM.  Just wanted clarification, not arguing.


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## Satin Knights (Aug 7, 2012)

Done.  Yea! 18.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 28, 2012)

I head out tomorrow for a few nights stay in the wonderfully small island of Saipan. Staying in a Pacific Islands Club hotel. 

Last time I stayed at one of those places, they only had WiFi available  in the lobby, but I was able to find a couch to sit and post some with  my laptop. So I might be running silent and dark for a few days since  the situation is unknown.  But, my regular posting schedule will resume  on the weekend.


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## HolyMan (Sep 25, 2012)

Bump for Mowgli - and if anyone has any idea of what to do with Loh and Kee please let me know - I'm at a loss. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Sep 25, 2012)

With our plan to lead the swarm in a circle around the cell block; Loh can Acid Splash, same as Firvin.  Kee just keep the swam chasing us.


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## HolyMan (Oct 12, 2012)

Was researching into GE's character Who I wish to bring back as an NPC (thus not having two) and can't wait till the group meets...







Fiendish werewolves sound ultra fun.

HM​


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## perrinmiller (Oct 12, 2012)

That's the plan, then?  Works for me.


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## perrinmiller (Oct 26, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> OOC: Ready for the last area?




I cannot zoom in on the last map provided, the attachment is not  viewed to me since the site upgrade, but I thought we were opening the  last remaining door just now? I think we are more than ready to be  finished with this floor.


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## Satin Knights (Oct 29, 2012)

Yes, ready for what is in room 6.


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## Satin Knights (Dec 1, 2012)

It is a door we have already broken a small hole in.  Can we just declare we finish smashing it down and leave, or do we have to keep hitting it round by round while "something else" happens?  Taking individual turns to get through a door is slowing us down massively.


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## perrinmiller (Dec 2, 2012)

I think we need to Detect Undead first, perhaps.

But I did post spamming cantrips to help speed things along without needing to keep rolling dice.


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## Satin Knights (Dec 2, 2012)

Marshan only had one memorized and used it already to find the piper.


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## HolyMan (Dec 15, 2012)

Sorry for the delay the holiday seems to be slowing me down. Two X-Mas parties in three days and two to go. Please no more Christmas cookies UGH!

I will be posting up the switching of Loh as NPC to Gergori - since Loh is a Lore Warden she may turn into your researcher while you all explore.

I don't think you all found much treasure on level two but wanted to ask if anyone wanted to do any shopping, before I post up - which should be SUN night after the X-Mas party.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Dec 17, 2012)

I had a busy weekend too, but catching up.  We want to go shopping, I thought.  

But, I cannot remember any decent treasure from the prison, only the vault.  So it would be selling stuff to get some acid or alchemist's fire?  Or does someone have something else in mind?


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