# Fantastic Four movie: Dr. Doom announced!



## Klaus (Aug 3, 2004)

20th Century Fox has announced Julian McMahon (Charmed, Nip/Tuck) as Victor Von Doom in the upcoming Fantastic Four movie.







Fantastic Four will be directed by Tim Story. Ioan Gruffudd (Reed Richards/Mr. Fantastic), Jessica Alba (Susan Storm/Invisible Girl), Michael Chicklis (Ben Grimm/The Thing) and Chris Evans (Johnny Storm/Human Torch) round out the cast. The movie, written by Simon Kinberg, will premiere on July 1st, 2005. It is said to mix classic adventures and the recent Ultimate revamp.


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## Rugger (Aug 3, 2004)

Um....color me not impressed.

Lemme re-word that: Who?

:sniffle: I was hoping for...I dunno...someone more...DOOM-y

-Rugger
"I SniffleForDoom!"


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## Kai Lord (Aug 3, 2004)

Rugger said:
			
		

> :sniffle: I was hoping for...I dunno...someone more...DOOM-y



Yeah, like Kevin Dubrow from Quiet Riot!


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 3, 2004)

Hmm... I'd read that they were in talks, not that he'd been cast already.

For what it's worth, I've seen him on both Profiler and Nip/Tuck (though I don't watch much of the latter). He's a decent actor, at least.


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## JimAde (Aug 3, 2004)

Julian McMahon is great.  I liked him in Charmed.  If they write Doom as an understated, controlling genius with a dry sense of humor, McMahon will be perfect.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 3, 2004)

Rugger said:
			
		

> Um....color me not impressed.
> 
> Lemme re-word that: Who?
> 
> ...



I agree.  I look at that guy and I don't see the greatest comic villan of all time.  I just don't see him as Doctor Doom.  But I didn't see Michael Keaton as Batman either so hopefully I will be suprised.  

P.S. In the Ultimate FF he is armored right?  I just want to make sure this isn't going to be a different Doom than the classic.


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## Desdichado (Aug 3, 2004)

Kai Lord, that's one of the funniest things I've read all day.  And now I'll have "Bang Your Head" stuck in my head.  At least until I get in the car in half an hour to go home.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 3, 2004)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Julian McMahon is great.  I liked him in Charmed.  If they write Doom as an understated, controlling genius with a dry sense of humor, McMahon will be perfect.



I agree. And yes, I've seen him in _Charmed,_ but he's older now.

OBTW, of all the _Batmans,_ no one can do obsession than Michael Keaton. I don't see it in Val Kilmer and I definitely don't see it in George Clooney. However, Christian Bale may be a good contender, albeit a younger version. Probably because of his stint in _American Psycho_ and as a heavy opposite Samuel L Jackson's _Shaft._


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## Nightfall (Aug 4, 2004)

Agreed,

Bale was awesome in American Psycho and that's why I think he'll make a FAR better Batman than the two after Keaton.


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## Abraxas (Aug 4, 2004)

Well, this certainly lowers my expectations, so I'll probably enjoy it more than I expect.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Aug 4, 2004)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Julian McMahon is great. I liked him in Charmed. If they write Doom as an understated, controlling genius with a dry sense of humor, McMahon will be perfect.



 Yes, and they'll be betraying everything cool about the classic Dr. Doom.  "Understated" he wasn't.  I don't know anything about the "Ultimate revamp" of the character(s), but I've heard through AICN and other sites that they're turning him into a Lex Luthor clone.  No Latveria, maybe no armor either.

 So far Chiklis is the only name I've heard that made me go "hellzyeah".


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 4, 2004)

> I don't know anything about the "Ultimate revamp" of the character(s), but I've heard through AICN and other sites that they're turning him into a Lex Luthor clone. No Latveria, maybe no armor either.




   

 

No. Frickin'. Way.

No Latveria + no armor = no ticket sold here.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 4, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> No. Frickin'. Way.
> 
> No Latveria + no armor = no ticket sold here.



No doubt.  If that's the case I'll just wait until I see it as a rental.  Jeez, if they take away the armor and they take away the majestic royalty of Doom then they may as well forget it.   Damn I hope this isn't true.


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## Holy Bovine (Aug 4, 2004)

Well it is from aintitcoolnews they are not, IMO, a vast basin of truth.  Speculation and rumour yes but not always reality.  I'll withhold judgement until I see some trailers.  What would Doom be without his armour and kingdom?  I just can't bring myself to believe the producers would so screw up a character like this.  

Maybe Ben Grimm will be made of ashphalt!


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## Andre La Roche (Aug 4, 2004)

Here's why it's good to take stuff you find on AICN with a block of saltlick (as opposed to a single grain):

http://www.comicscontinuum.com/stories/0407/26/fantasticfour.htm

"There are ideas. We are looking into that right now. We are going to make sure we respect the look of Doctor Doom. At the same time, you guys know when you bring these comics to the screen, you have to make it look believable. I'll tell you one thing: the mask of Doctor Doom is going to be pretty awesome. It's going to reflect what you know Doctor Doom to look like. "


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## Celtavian (Aug 4, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> No. Frickin'. Way.
> 
> No Latveria + no armor = no ticket sold here.




I hope it isn't true, but I'm in agreement if it is.

Doctor Doom is one of the great villains in the Marvel Universe. He needs no alteration. This guy kind of looks like Victor Von Doom outside the armor. Hopefully he can do a good job inside the armor.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 4, 2004)

Celtavian said:
			
		

> Doctor Doom is one of the great villains in the Marvel Universe. He needs no alteration. This guy kind of looks like Victor Von Doom outside the armor. Hopefully he can do a good job inside the armor.



IOW, can he do the job of exuding evil the way Darth Vader did in the _Episodes IV_ and _V_? Of course, one should note that Vader consists of two actors: one doing the voice and the physical actors in his customed armor.

Hmm. Speaking of armor, I wonder how it will differ from the comic book version? BTW, what is the origin of Dr. Doom's armor, if any?


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## Staffan (Aug 4, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Hmm. Speaking of armor, I wonder how it will differ from the comic book version? BTW, what is the origin of Dr. Doom's armor, if any?



In the original FF, Doom was a college... well, friend is not the right word, but acquaintance of Reed Richards. Both were, of course, geniuses. Doom was making some sort of invention to travel to other dimensions (I think it had to do with getting his mother out of some demon's claws), and Richards saw the plans and pointed out some error that Doom, of course, ignored. Doom built the machine, tried to use it, and had it blow up in his face, giving him a noticable scar.

Doom then left and sought out some weirdo monks - I think in Tibet. He learned mystic stuff from them, and forged his armor. Being the impatient man he is, he refused to wait for the mask to cool down, putting it on while it was still red-hot, thus turning his scarred-but-still-OK face into a burned mess.

In the Ultimateverse, Victor van Damme (which was a name his family used to hide the implications of the von Doom name - the family apparently has ties to ol' Vlad the Impaler) was a kid genius just like Reed Richards and Susan Storm (well, late-teens anyway). They were working in a big government project on some sort of dimension-piercing apparatus. Van Damme had made some changes to the apparatus without Reed knowing about it, so when the machine was activated, Reed, Sue, van Damme, Reed's buddy Ben Grimm, and Sue's brother Johnny (and maybe one more person - see below) disappeared and were scattered across various places. In the process, they got weirdified - Ben Grimm turned into some sort of stony Thing, Johnny Storm got the ability to turn to flame, Sue Storm could turn invisible, and Reed Richards' body got a weird lack of fixed shape - classic elemental associations: Ben - Earth, Johnny - Fire, Susan - Air, and Reed - Water. Then we learn that van Damme has apparently turned into some sort of metallic monstrosity, and see hints that someone also turned into the Man-Thing. These two would then be Metal and Nature.

Ultimate Four #7 which showed Doom's background used to be online as a preview somewhere - ah, at http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/ultff/

Here are some of the relevant picture for the above story:
The people getting transferred, including Man-Thing: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/ultff/page04.html
First full picture of Doom: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/ultff/page22.html
Flashback to Victor van Damme being told by his father about his heritage: http://www.milehighcomics.com/firstlook/marvel/ultff/page07.html


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## Klaus (Aug 4, 2004)

Staffan said:
			
		

> In the original FF, Doom was a college... well, friend is not the right word, but acquaintance of Reed Richards. Both were, of course, geniuses. Doom was making some sort of invention to travel to other dimensions (I think it had to do with getting his mother out of some demon's claws), and Richards saw the plans and pointed out some error that Doom, of course, ignored. Doom built the machine, tried to use it, and had it blow up in his face, giving him a noticable scar.
> 
> Doom then left and sought out some weirdo monks - I think in Tibet. He learned mystic stuff from them, and forged his armor. Being the impatient man he is, he refused to wait for the mask to cool down, putting it on while it was still red-hot, thus turning his scarred-but-still-OK face into a burned mess.
> 
> ...



 Ugh! Is this what they did to the FF and Doom in the Ultimate line?

And mixing Chinese and Classic elements? What the--?

Chinese didn't consider Air to be an element, but rather a divine component (Wind). Their elements were Earth, Metal, Water, Wood and Fire.

Sometimes I think the Ultimate writer change things just for the sake of it...


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 4, 2004)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Yes, and they'll be betraying everything cool about the classic Dr. Doom.  "Understated" he wasn't.  I don't know anything about the "Ultimate revamp" of the character(s), but I've heard through AICN and other sites that they're turning him into a Lex Luthor clone.  No Latveria, maybe no armor either.
> 
> So far Chiklis is the only name I've heard that made me go "hellzyeah".



 Yes,  Doom is the kind of over the top madman who tapes himself talking to himself and others, so "every utterance of Doom is recorded for posterity".  He rants and does nothign without putting the kind of royal flair on it that makes the action worthy of Doom.  They need to read FF#84-86, 246, 247, & 258 to get the feel of Doom.   He isn't subtle unless he absolutely has to be, and even then it's difficult.  He is grandiose as is fitting for a King & self proclaimed smartest man alive.  Gosh Darn they better not screw up Doom.  If he isn't done right with the flair and majesty that makes him so much more than Lex Luthor or any mad scientist clone.


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## DonAdam (Aug 4, 2004)

> Bale was awesome in American Psycho and that's why I think he'll make a FAR better Batman than the two after Keaton.




What two after Keaton?

Let me make this clear: there were no live action Batman movies made after Batman Returns. It was all a bad dream.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 4, 2004)

Nightmare is more fitting.


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## Desdichado (Aug 4, 2004)

Celtavian said:
			
		

> This guy kind of looks like Victor Von Doom outside the armor.



Exactly the thought I had; he reminds me a lot of Victor in Secret Wars where his face is "magically" restored by the Beyonder and he walks around without a helmet a lot.


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## Elemental (Aug 4, 2004)

(nm)


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Aug 4, 2004)

DonAdam said:
			
		

> What two after Keaton?
> 
> Let me make this clear: there were no live action Batman movies made after Batman Returns. It was all a bad dream.



 Just like that horrible dream I once had about a Highlander 2...or something like that. *shudders*

And on topic...I think he could pull it off. Of course, haven't really seen him in that much but I'm willing to give him a chance. Doom is my all time favourite supervillain...so I do have high hopes, I've just never been able to think of WHO could play him. At least someone has an idea.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 5, 2004)

Klaus said:
			
		

> And mixing Chinese and Classic elements? What the--?
> 
> Chinese didn't consider Air to be an element, but rather a divine component (Wind). Their elements were Earth, Metal, Water, Wood and Fire.



Actually, I don't think they're Chinese elements. They're Japanese elements.

_Rokugan_ and _L5R_ players would recognize these as their game is based mostly on the _Book of Five Rings_ written by Musashi Miyamoto. The "rings" represent the five Japanese elements: Fire, Earth, Water, Air, and Void.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 5, 2004)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> Yes,  Doom is the kind of over the top madman who tapes himself talking to himself and others, so "every utterance of Doom is recorded for posterity".  He rants and does nothign without putting the kind of royal flair on it that makes the action worthy of Doom.



Suddenly I'm reminded of the Joker in the _Batman_ TV series, or worse yet, that villain that Jeremy Iron played in _D&D: The Movie._ Their "over-the-top villain" performance is too whacky, two-dimensional, and so not going to win over the sophisticated audience of today.

* shudders *

"It is always the quiet ones." Now that is more believable, one who is subtle, like Ian McKellan's _Magneto_ or the classic Darth Vader of the _Original Trilogy._ Now I don't mind the villain lost it at the end of the movie when his sinister plan is foiled, but I prefer a villain who just stand and yet you get a chill down your spine.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 5, 2004)

Todays audience is sophisticated? When did this happen? I must have missed something. 

I think what I mean by "over the top" is different than what you are thinking of.  Perhaps the term doesn't fit quite as well as it would the Joker.  Doom isn't a raving madman. Though he has had the occasional fit when Richards foiled one of his sweet plans.  He is the worlds greatest egomaniac, and is mad, but he is also in control of himself most of the time.  He can be subtle and is capable of long term plots to destroy the Four or take over the world.  On the other hand he can fly off the handle into murderous rage directed at a child who dared claim Richard was his intellectual equal.   You just have to love Doc Doom.


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## Klaus (Aug 5, 2004)

Chinese, believe me. 

Got meself a Feng Shui (the chinese philosophy, not the game) expert in the house.

Wood feeds Fire that reveals Earth that ours out Metal that flows as Water that nurtures Wood...

Plus, in the Chinese horoscope both my wife and I are Wood Tigers.


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## KenM (Aug 5, 2004)

DonAdam said:
			
		

> What two after Keaton?
> 
> Let me make this clear: there were no live action Batman movies made after Batman Returns. It was all a bad dream.




 I had a horrible dream about a bad fantasy movie called the Dungeons and Dragons movie.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 5, 2004)

KenM said:
			
		

> I had a horrible dream about a bad fantasy movie called the Dungeons and Dragons movie.



You may have a seqal nightmare, more horrible & terrifying than the first!


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## frankthedm (Aug 5, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> No Latveria + no armor = no ticket sold here.




Lets hear an Amen, our congregation of the full helm!  Flashbacks are one thing, but if Doom's face is visable in the outfit, I am saving my money.


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## Trainz (Aug 5, 2004)

Apparently, this is how The Thing will look like:


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## Ranger REG (Aug 5, 2004)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Chinese, believe me.



So, which of the _Fantastic Four_ and Dr. Doom represent in the Chinese elements?


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## Ranger REG (Aug 5, 2004)

Trainz said:
			
		

> Apparently, this is how The Thing will look like:



I thought Michael Chiklis (_The Shield_) is going to play The Thing, not Dennis Franz (_NYPD Blue_).


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## s/LaSH (Aug 6, 2004)

To me, McMahon is an actor who can do _regret_ very well - that's just the vibe I get off him (mostly from wandering through the room while my sisters watched Charmed). And Doom has plenty to regret. I'm willing to bet he can make people scared of him, too. Scared in the self-referential Caesar fashion so endemic to the original Doctor? Not so sure. Haven't seen the movie yet, though. And we're not guaranteed to have seen all of McMahon's talents - for example, you may be aware of my illustration career, but you're probably not aware that my friends are threatening to kill me if I don't write more of my science fiction novel for them - they like it very much and call it 'publishable' (even if I see flaws throughout). Some things just don't come up all the time...


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## Andre La Roche (Aug 7, 2004)

I'm also going to pipe in again to say that if the movie representation of Doom is _too_ like the one in the comics, that this is a movie I'd stay away from.  That sort of over-the-top melodramatic dialogue tends to not translate out to film too well.  Just look at Doom in the Corman FF movie to see this.


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## Ranger REG (Aug 7, 2004)

Andre La Roche said:
			
		

> Just look at Doom in the Corman FF movie to see this.



Haven't seen it. I'm guessing it's not worth getting the DVD, right?


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 8, 2004)

The Corman FF flick just barely falls into the "so bad it's good" category.  And, since it was never officially released, you can only get bootleg copies of it at various sci-fi conventions or specialty stores (I got my copy at BotCon 2003).

And I find it fairly ironic that a guy who's been playing a plastic surgeon for the past year or so is going to be portraying one of the most infamously scarred characters in all comic-dom. I think he'll do a vey good job, though, since he's been portraying arrogant, vain, egotistical characters.  That, and he looks a good bit like Doom when he fixed his scarred face during the "Secret Wars" story arc.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 8, 2004)

I'm downloading it as we speak.  We will see just how bad this movie is.


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 8, 2004)

*gets out a straw to slurp up the liquefied remains of Flexor's brains afte he finishes the flick*


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## Andre La Roche (Aug 8, 2004)

Hand of Vecna said:
			
		

> *gets out a straw to slurp up the liquefied remains of Flexor's brains afte he finishes the flick*





Ever the mindflayer.


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 8, 2004)

Heh, oddly enough, "Hand of Vecna" was the name of a Kobold Cleric of Vecna I once played (or, rather, that was the name he referred to himself by)....


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 8, 2004)

oh the horror....the horror....


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 9, 2004)

You were warned...

*slurp slurp slurp*


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## Ranger REG (Aug 9, 2004)

Andre La Roche said:
			
		

> Ever the mindflayer.



Odd. I've never seen a mindflayer using a straw.


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 9, 2004)

Only the very cultured ones do so.  We stick our pinkies out when doing it, too.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 9, 2004)

Slurp faster, the quicker my brain is gone the quicker I'll forget that movie. 

INT at 9...8...7...6...faster!!!!

P.S What the HELL Were they thinking!!! OMG that just looked bad, the acting was bad, Dr Doom looked like a guy wearing a bad plastic verison of Doom's steel armor. How did Roger Corman, king of the B Movie, get the go ahead to do this? I remember reading about this in Starlog a long time ago when it was in production. Back then I said, "It can't be THAT bad, can it?" 

Oh yes it can...oh yes it can....


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## Viking Bastard (Aug 9, 2004)

The only reason that movie was made was so the producers could keep 
 onto the Fantastic Four film rights a bit longer.


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## Andre La Roche (Aug 10, 2004)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> The only reason that movie was made was so the producers could keep
> onto the Fantastic Four film rights a bit longer.




Yeah, that's the story that's put out after the fact.  I clearly remember reading in the various sci-fi movie mags at the time a lot of pre-hype nearly equivalent to what we see nowadays.  Interviews with the producer, "behind the scenes shots"--the works.  I think it's easier (and less embarrassing!) to say after the fact that it was never intended to be a "real" movie.

But then, that's just my personal paranoid conspiracy theory with absolutely no substantiation whatsoever.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 10, 2004)

Andre La Roche said:
			
		

> Yeah, that's the story that's put out after the fact.  I clearly remember reading in the various sci-fi movie mags at the time a lot of pre-hype nearly equivalent to what we see nowadays.  Interviews with the producer, "behind the scenes shots"--the works.  I think it's easier (and less embarrassing!) to say after the fact that it was never intended to be a "real" movie.
> 
> But then, that's just my personal paranoid conspiracy theory with absolutely no substantiation whatsoever.




I too remember reading a lot about it in Starlog.  It wasn't being hyped as a joke flick at the time, even if we should have figured it was based on the low budget and who was directing it.   Man that movie made Batman and Robin seem like The Godfather.  

The Horror!  I feel like someone in an HP Lovecraft story after watching that.  My sanity is low.


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## Nuclear Platypus (Aug 11, 2004)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> So far Chiklis is the only name I've heard that made me go "hellzyeah".




What about Jessica Alba donning the blue spandex to be Sue Storm?


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## Ranger REG (Aug 11, 2004)

Sweet!

Even Sweeter? Jessica Alba *undonning* the spandex.  

OBTW, she'll be playing a stripper in another comic book adaptation, _Sin City_ (with Bruce Willis).


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## Klaus (Aug 11, 2004)

Jessica Alba = Good!

BTW, check Ain't It Cool News's page with pictures of the movie panels at Comic Con. There's a picture that's described as "the air-conditioning seemed too strong for Ms. Alba".

Thank me later.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 11, 2004)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Jessica Alba = Good!
> 
> BTW, check Ain't It Cool News's page with pictures of the movie panels at Comic Con. There's a picture that's described as "the air-conditioning seemed too strong for Ms. Alba".
> 
> Thank me later.




I couldn't find it.


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 12, 2004)

While I do indeed find Jessica Alba incredibly attractive, I have trouble seeing her as Sue.  Sue's always been drawn as very..... Caucasian, which Alba is not.


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## Ei (Aug 12, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> So, which of the _Fantastic Four_ and Dr. Doom represent in the Chinese elements?




Well, there is the man-thing, which is a basically a shambling mount, so he's plant

The thing and the human torch is of course earth and fire, Mr. fantastic is water, and dr.Doom is metal.  

The only one who doesn’t fit is sue, since in Chinese element there is no air, wind is often associate with divine strength and life force.  So it is sort like the positive/negative energy of the DnD. It is introduced from India from Buddhism I believe.

It is also interesting to note that Wind and Water often goes together and from it achieve harmony.

It fits a lot better than the Japanese elements, since I really don't see Doom as void, and Man-Thing just got left out.

Of course, it is all probably just bunch of hogwash and the comic writers probably just randomly sticked those characters together.


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## Klaus (Aug 12, 2004)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> I couldn't find it.



 Try this:
http://www.aintitcool.com/display.cgi?id=18035


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## Thotas (Aug 12, 2004)

With Victor von Doom, the point is arrogance.  In the comics, conveying his arrogance is done by having him rant and rave in ways that work in a static picture but don't work well on film.  But for verisimilitude on the character, you have to lean that way.  The solution is that Doom still gets to rant, but no more raving is allowed.  In fact, since comics-Doom is portrayed as an aristocrat, movie-Doom needs to take the dismissive snob route.  

The great thing about him is that so many of our favorite cliche villian bits that we love while know they're are lame are actually appropriate for Doom.  For example, we all roll our eyes when BBEG tells our hero all about his evil plan in exquisite detail.  But with Doom, at least when he's dealing with Mr. Fantastic, has a reason for doing this.  His inflated ego is threatened by one thing and one thing only: the knowledge that Reed Richards may actually match him for brilliance.  By giving Richards the info, he's saying it doesn't matter if he has it -- but even more, it's no fun to best Mr. Fantastic if Reed doesn't appreciate how it's done.  And Doom wants his genius fully appreciated, the irony being that the only person who could do this is seen as a threat because of it.  

Gotta love Doom, he's such a mess.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 13, 2004)

Thotas said:
			
		

> With Victor von Doom, the point is arrogance.  In the comics, conveying his arrogance is done by having him rant and rave in ways that work in a static picture but don't work well on film.  But for verisimilitude on the character, you have to lean that way.  The solution is that Doom still gets to rant, but no more raving is allowed.  In fact, since comics-Doom is portrayed as an aristocrat, movie-Doom needs to take the dismissive snob route.
> 
> The great thing about him is that so many of our favorite cliche villian bits that we love while know they're are lame are actually appropriate for Doom.  For example, we all roll our eyes when BBEG tells our hero all about his evil plan in exquisite detail.  But with Doom, at least when he's dealing with Mr. Fantastic, has a reason for doing this.  His inflated ego is threatened by one thing and one thing only: the knowledge that Reed Richards may actually match him for brilliance.  By giving Richards the info, he's saying it doesn't matter if he has it -- but even more, it's no fun to best Mr. Fantastic if Reed doesn't appreciate how it's done.  And Doom wants his genius fully appreciated, the irony being that the only person who could do this is seen as a threat because of it.
> 
> Gotta love Doom, he's such a mess.




Yep.  Doom wants the hero in the death trap to admit, "Damn Doom!  Your trap was brilliant and you got me, bravo old man *golf clap*!".  With Richards it's even more pronounced.   He must prove he is smarter than Richards.  He must prove he is the smartest man alive and destroying the main challanger in the brains department is the only way to really prove that. 

However...can a man who loves his mommy as much as Doom does really be that bad?  I mean he was trying to storm the shores of Hell to save her soul before he even finished college!


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## Hand of Vecna (Aug 13, 2004)

True, but even then, his arrogance was overwhelming.  His failure to contact her (and the small scar he got on his cheek when the device exploded) drove him over the edge.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Aug 13, 2004)

Hand of Vecna said:
			
		

> True, but even then, his arrogance was overwhelming.  His failure to contact her (and the small scar he got on his cheek when the device exploded) drove him over the edge.





Failure?  It was the meddling of Richards!!!!  

RICHARDS!!!!!!!!!!!! *shaking fist in the air*


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