# Protection From Evil magic item(s)?



## Arnwyn (Oct 2, 2005)

I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but here goes:

Does anyone know if there is a magical item that casts _protection from evil_, preferably in a permanent/continuous manner? (Much like how _boots of striding and springing_ acts as a permanent _longstrider_ spell for 5,500 gp.)

Any source is fine.


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## brehobit (Oct 3, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if this is the correct forum, but here goes:
> 
> Does anyone know if there is a magical item that casts _protection from evil_, preferably in a permanent/continuous manner? (Much like how _boots of striding and springing_ acts as a permanent _longstrider_ spell for 5,500 gp.)
> 
> Any source is fine.



Well, an intelligent item can do magic circle of protection....


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## Nyeshet (Oct 3, 2005)

Not offhand, but what about an Amulet of Protection from Evil (constant)? Or even a broach or pendant? Or perhaps placed upon a holy symbol? 

Hmm, as a wondrous item (an Amulet of Protection against Evil) it would cost about 2000gp. Somehow that seems a little off, considering what it would allow. Could anyone tell me what I might be doing wrong with this? 

An amulet granting continuous Protection against Evil upon the wearer would: 
- grant +2 deflection to AC vs evil creatures
- grant +2 resistance to all saves vs attacks made and effects created by evil creatures
- prevent any form of control (charm, domination, etc) by evil creatures
- prevent any form of possession, regardless of the AL of the possessing creature
- block summoned creatures from touching the ring bearer unless: 
- - the creature is of Good alignment
- - the creature has SR, and overcomes the (admittedly easily overcome) spell effect
- - the ring bearer attempts to touch or attack the creature

The last is a bit of a problem, I think. Does the protection reapply the next round, the next encounter, or even never against the creature hereafter? I would probably assume the rule regarding the suppression of supernatural effects. As such, the non-good summoned creature attacked by the ring bearer would not be affected by the auto-blocking of the spell effect for 1d4 rounds. 

In any case, this seems like a lot for just 2000 gp. Granted, at higher levels it is not - especially as many summoned creatures have SR and so will easily repel the blocking effect. And also the bonii are named - and so do not stack with similar bonii from other sources, and they only affect creatures of a single alignment. 

On the other hand, most creatures attacked in a typical game are at least non-good - and often evil. Also, consider what would happen if a party all wore this type of amulet and then met a vampire. Domination fails, better AC, better saves vs its other abilities, can ignore its summoned creatures (as they are evil) so long as they do not attack them, etc. Its even worse against some incorporeal menaces. Suddenly ghostly possession is no longer an issue, and the deflection bonus to AC aids the typically lower touch AC incorporeals typically work against. 

So what do other posters on this board think of this? Should it cost just 2000 gp (1k gp & 80 xp to create)? Or am I missing a rule somewhere? Or am I mistaken about its apparent power?


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## Len (Oct 3, 2005)

It would be 4000 gp if you priced it as a continuous Protection from Evil spell. But even that is way too low. If an item has continuous powers, it's much better to price it by its powers rather than by extending a short-duration spell. The AC and save bonuses are worth thousands each.

I know this item has been mentioned here before, but I don't remember what sort of prices people came up with. Except that it was more than 4000 gp.


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## brehobit (Oct 3, 2005)

As a house rule thing, I'd say 15-20K would be about right. 

+2 deflection and reistance
(+2 deflection is 8,000, +2 resistance is 4,000.  Both are obviously limited, so I'd call that part 6,000 total)  

Interference with mind influencing spells.  Call it 5,000.

Can't be touched by certain things.  Call it 5,000 at least.

And if it did drop (say dispel magic) I'd say it would take a standard action to put back up.


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## andargor (Oct 3, 2005)

Search is your friend! 

Probably what you are looking for:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=30442&highlight="protection+evil"+pricing

Before dcollins started on his crusade to indicate that the DMG magic item pricing is a house rule. 

Andargor


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## dcollins (Oct 3, 2005)

Nyeshet said:
			
		

> So what do other posters on this board think of this? Should it cost just 2000 gp (1k gp & 80 xp to create)? Or am I missing a rule somewhere? Or am I mistaken about its apparent power?




The pricing guidelines are just that, guidelines to help DMs in the general direction in pricing their house-ruled items.    There's a lot of stuff the guidelines just don't remotely work for. Here's the top 5 that players try to abuse by ramming down their DM's throats:

(1) Continuous _cure light wounds_ item.
(2) Continuous _true strike_ item.
(3) Continuous _protection from evil_ item.
(4) +30 skill to Spellcraft item (for Epic players)
(5) +30 skill to Use Magic Device.


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## Ferrix (Oct 3, 2005)

dcollins said:
			
		

> The pricing guidelines are just that, guidelines to help DMs in the general direction in pricing their house-ruled items.    There's a lot of stuff the guidelines just don't remotely work for. Here's the top 5 that players try to abuse by ramming down their DM's throats:
> 
> (1) Continuous _cure light wounds_ item.
> (2) Continuous _true strike_ item.
> ...




4 and 5 aren't so bad, it's the +30 diplomacy, bluff, etc. ones that can really ruin any possible social encounters you've planned, unless you use Rich Burlew's diplomacy rules, and even then it's pushing the boundaries.

3 isn't so horrible, some PrC's grant equivalent abilities or stronger.  As a magic item, most people either overprice it or underprice it.  Me, I'd peg it around 12k-16k depending upon the sort of campaign you are in.  In games where your enemies are 95+% of the time evil, which isn't most games I play in, it would be more expensive.

1 & 2 are busticated.


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## blargney the second (Oct 3, 2005)

My DM let me make a item that could cast _Protection from Evil_ 3 times per day.  I think it was around 5k with caster level 2.

-blarg


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Oct 3, 2005)

dcollins said:
			
		

> (1) Continuous _cure light wounds_ item.




Which, of course, is nonsensical.  It's an instantaneous effect - there's nothing to be made continuous.

Now, if you wanted a real example, choose continuous lesser vigor.


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## Arnwyn (Oct 3, 2005)

dcollins said:
			
		

> Here's the top 5 that players try to abuse by ramming down their DM's throats:
> 
> (3) Continuous _protection from evil_ item.



 Heh, no surprise that this particular player of mine would try to go for something in the top 5!

Thanks for the tips, everyone - I didn't think that such an item existed (as I was looking for a guideline, because indeed, the magic item creation "system" for 3e sucks). My original thought on the matter when my player asked (he was hoping it would cost him 5500 gp, much like the _boots of striding and springing_, because both are "1st level spells") was correct - 5500 gp is way too low, and in many cases, spell level is irrelevant when creating a magic item (especially continuous-effect magic items).


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## Infiniti2000 (Oct 3, 2005)

An unlimited use, use-activated, slotless item of cure minor wounds is ridiculously low-priced per the guidelines, at 2000gp.  Usable really only out of combat, but it brings everyone in the party back up to max hp after ever encounter.  Find an affinity slot and make it cost 1000gp.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Oct 3, 2005)

Part of your problem might be how you're pricing the boots of striding and springing.  They aren't costed as a continuous spell.

They're priced as:

+5 Competence bonus to Jump = 5^2 * 100gp = 2,500gp

+10 enhancement bonus to speed = 10^2 * 20gp = 2,000gp * 1.5 (Secondary Ability) = 3,000gp

Total = 5,500gp


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## Stalker0 (Oct 3, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> spell level is irrelevant when creating a magic item (especially continuous-effect magic items).




I think that's the take home wisdom from this argument.


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## Arnwyn (Oct 3, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Part of your problem might be how you're pricing the boots of striding and springing. They aren't costed as a continuous spell.
> 
> They're priced as:
> 
> ...



Well, I'm not really "pricing" anything. I'm just looking at what my player provided me as an example (boots of striding and springing, related to a 1st level spell, price = 5500 gp), raised an eyebrow, and then started looking for an actual continuous effect _protection from evil_ item. Failed miserably. Asked here.


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## Joshua Randall (Oct 3, 2005)

As someone mentioned, intelligent weapons can have a built-in circle effect. So, you might be able to find an example intelligent weapon (I know the DMG has a few, and there have been some scattered in other sources such as Races of Stone) *with * the circle effect and compare it to one *without*. Then see if you can reverse-engineer the costs.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Oct 3, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Well, I'm not really "pricing" anything.




Sorry, I should have been clearer.

What I meant was, your player was saying that the boots are a good example of what the total price should be because they're also a continuous first level spell (ignoring, for the moment, that they aren't).

I'm saying they're not a good example because they aren't priced as a continuous first level spell; they're priced according to the abilities they confer.

Which brings us to the fact that the boots are a *great* example of how to compute the cost of a continuous protection from Evil item: break out its bonuses, cost them independently, and then moosh them together.


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## Kilroy (Oct 3, 2005)

There's a midlevel summon spell in BoED that summons a firre eladrin for a year.  Keep it in your pocket and enjoy the continuous Magic Circle vs Evil.


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## IcyCool (Oct 3, 2005)

Kilroy said:
			
		

> There's a midlevel summon spell in BoED that summons a firre eladrin for a year.  Keep it in your pocket and enjoy the continuous Magic Circle vs Evil.




That's a _big_ pocket.


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## Peter Gibbons (Oct 3, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Sorry, I should have been clearer.
> 
> What I meant was, your player was saying that the boots are a good example of what the total price should be because they're also a continuous first level spell (ignoring, for the moment, that they aren't).
> 
> I'm saying they're not a good example because they aren't priced as a continuous first level spell; they're priced according to the abilities they confer.



How do you know they aren't priced as a continuous first-level spell?  (Not so much challenging you as honestly wondering.)  The pricing works out perfectly that way, and the effect is word-for-word the same as the spell in question.

Also, where did you get your formula for the speed enhancement?  I've never seen it before.


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## Patryn of Elvenshae (Oct 3, 2005)

Reverse order, go!  



> Also, where did you get your formula for the speed enhancement?  I've never seen it before.




I derived it.  Straight bonuses in D&D 3.X follow a predictable formula: bonus squared multiplied by a constant.  We know the multipliers for competence bonuses to skills, so we know that a +5 comp. bonus to Jump is worth 2,500gp.  We know, further, that secondary abilities have a 1.5x multiplier applied to them.

So, either the Jump bonus is secondary or the speed bonus is secondary.  If the jump bonus is secondary, then it's price in the item is 2,500gp * 1.5 = 3,750gp.  That means the speed bonus must have been worth 1,750gp to start with.  1,750gp, however, is less than 2,500gp, which tells us that the Jump bonus can't be secondary (Jump >= Speed => Jump Primary).

So, the Jump bonus is primary, leaving 3,000gp for the speed bonus.  That's equal to 2,000gp times 1.5.  Since it's a +10 bonus to speed, we calculate the constant at 20gp.



			
				Peter Gibbons said:
			
		

> How do you know they aren't priced as a continuous first-level spell?  (Not so much challenging you as honestly wondering.)  The pricing works out perfectly that way, and the effect is word-for-word the same as the spell in question.




Actually, it doesn't.  The boots are made at CL 3.  A continous, 1 hour / level, 1st-level spell at CL 3 is priced at 1 * 3 * 2,000gp = 6,000gp.  That's more than the boots are worth in total (not even accounting for the bonus to Jump checks).


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## Kilroy (Oct 3, 2005)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> That's a _big_ pocket.




Nah, they're incorporeal. ;-)


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## smootrk (Oct 4, 2005)

IcyCool said:
			
		

> That's a _big_ pocket.




Is that a firre eladrin in your pocket? or are you just happy to see me?


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## Pielorinho (Oct 4, 2005)

smootrk said:
			
		

> Is that a firre eladrin in your pocket? or are you just happy to see me?



I always knew you carried a torch for me, but isn't that taking it a bit far?

The magic circle against... cost for intelligent items is +15,000 gp.  Given that you have to pay an up-front cost of at least 9,000 gp in order to qualify for this cost, and given that it's got to be activated (by the item if not the user), I'd say that the cost of around $15,000 for a standalone PfE would be fair.  At taht cost, it should be a popular item.

Daniel


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## Peter Gibbons (Oct 4, 2005)

Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> I derived it.  Straight bonuses in D&D 3.X follow a predictable formula: bonus squared multiplied by a constant.



Makes perfect sense.  Thanks!    



			
				Patryn of Elvenshae said:
			
		

> Actually, it doesn't.  The boots are made at CL 3.  A continous, 1 hour / level, 1st-level spell at CL 3 is priced at 1 * 3 * 2,000gp = 6,000gp.  That's more than the boots are worth in total (not even accounting for the bonus to Jump checks).



Well, there's a whole 'nother question about _that_, but I don't want to get into it right now.  I'll save it for another time.


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## edhel (Oct 4, 2005)

Doesn't Book of Exalted Deeds have ~tons of prestige classes and items that give continous protection from evil and magic circle against evil?

At least lantern archon (celestial familiar) gives continous magic circle against evil, and you can get it at 7th level (costs one feat). Also Celestial Mystic pclass has MCAE also as a first level ability and there were others too (I can't check now).

IIRC, there's also an armor enchantment called sacred that gives permanent protection from evil, and it's equivalent of +1 bonus (could be +2, I'd use +2).

Hm, maybe +2 is too much, since it's really easy to cast and last long enough.

Anyway, I wouldn't set its price over 4000 gp even in my Mulhorand campaign where the shining heroes of Horus-Re battle setites and evil snake cults and far realm cultists all the time.


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