# Player's Primer Preview



## Morrus (Mar 21, 2011)

This is a sneak preview of the two-page _ZEITGEIST_ _Player Primer_ handout, just for the one person who reads the ENP forum!  This is an excerpt from the free Player's Guide, and will also be available separately so you can hand it out to your players.


*Two notes:*

This is not the final version of the primer; we have a much prettier map to go in place of the current placeholder.
This is for the 4E version of ZEITGEIST; the Pathfinder _Player Primer_ will be different.
The final version should be available very soon - as soon as we get the new map in.


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## Dragonhelm (Mar 21, 2011)

Love it!  I really dig the clash of technology and magic, from what I'm seeing.  And doomsayer dwarves are awesome!

More, please!


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## Mentat55 (Mar 21, 2011)

ZEITGEIST can't come quick enough!  I hope I can convince my group to let me DM this game.


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## Stumblewyk (Mar 21, 2011)

I have to admit, Zeitgeist intrigues me.  I don't have the time to run it, being busy running two regular games and playing in one already.  The the game I play in rotates DMs, and the next guy coming up to run needs an AP, and I'd love it to be this one.  I just don't know how to politely say "you should run this."


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## Leopold (Mar 22, 2011)

There is just something about this preview that rubs me the wrong way. The background is  just too "bright" if that's applicable.

Color me jaded by modules and primers using a gray background or a less intense white text (Rite Publishing or Frog God Games). Look at this on my LCD monitor and Macbook just makes everything pop out and that white is overwhelming the yellows and browns that are scattered around. Once you hit that map all these bright reds and greens slam you in the face and I had to move down farther.

No I don't live in a cave, black hole, have my monitor cranked to 9000 with laser eyes. If there was a way to mute those colors a bit that would make it a bit more appealing on me.

This is steampunk similar to Privateer Press who set the bar VERY high with their setting. Taking  a page out of their color scheme is fair play to all.


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## Marius Delphus (Mar 22, 2011)

Thanks for your input. I'm sorry you don't like it much, but I feel the need to address a couple of your points.

There are several factors that could make white and/or saturated colors  appear too "intense" on your monitor, and I can't control them all. You  identified a couple already. But, as an aside, I can confirm that the new map Morrus mentions is in all ways superior to the map I kludged together, based on the draft version I've seen. I don't know whether it will be any better for your eyes, though.

I do find deeply mystifying the suggestion that black text on a mottled/splotchy gray background* is superior to black text on a white page. The notion is quite outside my experience and runs counter to the conventional wisdom that colored or gray backgrounds make text harder to read for most people (difficulty in reading increases as the contrast between the background and the text goes down), especially people with imperfect eyesight, and moreso if there are splotches or variations in color in the background. The higher the contrast between text and paper, the more legible the text, as a general thing.

_* The previews I was able to locate suggest to me this is the sort of thing you mean.
_
As to Privateer Press, according to the preview I located, the Iron Kingdoms _Monsternomicon _(at least) appears to have an entirely grayscale interior, so I'm unsure what you mean by Privateer's color scheme. Do you mean their product covers and website? I can't agree with the assertion that cribbing a color scheme from Privateer's products is "fair play to all." It's certainly not fair to Privateer, whose graphic designer(s) worked hard to create attractive and distinctive looks for their various product lines. In any case, Zeitgeist is *not* Iron Kingdoms, though of course they share some thematic similarities.

In short, I'm not shooting for an "Iron Kingdoms" look: I'm creating a "Zeitgeist" look. While it happens that I'm still trying desperately to squeeze in time to weigh my options and refine the layout I'll be using for the final books, covering up the white paper with a grungy or cloudy texture is not looking like something I'm likely to consider (unless of course I'm directed to). There are a few reasons for this, including (but not limited to) reduction in text legibility, as I mentioned, and ink expense for our customers who (plan to) print the Zeitgeist PDF pages on their home printers (and I plan to format the PDF such that some of the graphics can be "switched off" via layers).

In closing, I do find that it's true what they say about desktop publishing: you never hear about it unless someone dislikes it.


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## MatthewJHanson (Mar 22, 2011)

I thought the layout looked nice.


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## Leopold (Mar 22, 2011)

Marius Delphus said:


> I do find deeply mystifying the suggestion that black text on a mottled/splotchy gray background* is superior to black text on a white page. The notion is quite outside my experience and runs counter to the conventional wisdom that colored or gray backgrounds make text harder to read for most people (difficulty in reading increases as the contrast between the background and the text goes down), especially people with imperfect eyesight, and moreso if there are splotches or variations in color in the background. The higher the contrast between text and paper, the more legible the text, as a general thing.




The text is fine, I had no problem reading the text. It was the overwhelming white in the background that got to me.   I've seen light grays, whites, all print up just fine on the various devices I use (PC, MAC, iOS) and not been an issue.   Frog God Games Slumbering Tsar module line read just fine for me as an example. 





> It's certainly not fair to Privateer, whose graphic designer(s) worked hard to create attractive and distinctive looks for their various product lines. In any case, Zeitgeist is *not* Iron Kingdoms, though of course they share some thematic similarities. In short, I'm not shooting for an "Iron Kingdoms" look: I'm creating a "Zeitgeist" look.




From what I can tell Zeitgeist is a steampunkish type of work and traditionally steampunk has been a bit dark, grungy, full of grim and gritty images, lots of brass, copper and various metals. Smoke, steam, coal burning with gears whirring away.   If I misread the preview wrong and Zeitgeist is not like that, then disregard my comment.

I totally agree you can go your own way, style your own material, more power to you.  I'm basing this preview vs. material found elsewhere and on the internet (Tor did a huge write up a few months on steampunk).  This is your world, I"m just here to comment on it 



> In closing, I do find that it's true what they say about desktop publishing: you never hear about it unless someone dislikes it.




This applies to every job or work I've ever done. Until someone says something you just have no idea what people think.  On this we completely agree.


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## the-golem (Mar 22, 2011)

I've found that black on a slight off-white (off-gray?) background is much better for readablity than black on pure white. 

I personally don't have an issue, and I'm not an expert in this field, but if you made the background "white" into, say, #EEEEEE, it might help the stark contrast the poster was complaing of.


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## LightPhoenix (Mar 23, 2011)

Marius Delphus said:


> There are a few reasons for this, including (but not limited to) reduction in text legibility, as I mentioned, and ink expense for our customers who (plan to) print the Zeitgeist PDF pages on their home printers (and I plan to format the PDF such that some of the graphics can be "switched off" via layers).




I like the layers idea.  Anything that makes the product less cluttered, easier to read, and less wasteful to print is a big thumbs up in my book.

I had no problems with the PDF contrast.  I get the "bright" comment - there's a lot of relatively bright and warm colors in the sidebars (tans and yellows).  I think this is causing them to "pop" a little too much for some people*, as opposed to being more subdued with a cooler color palette.  Personally, I like the color choice; it makes it feel dirty without making it feel dark.  It immediately sets the tone - this is still _heroic_ fantasy (rather than gritty), but it's not medieval (typically lots of reds and blues).

* [EDIT] Making the main body of text appear more contrasted as well.


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## Morrus (Mar 23, 2011)

Well, I've heard millions of complaints about PDFs _not_ being on a white background - but this is a first for me! 

Printer ink and toner being what it is, I can't see us changing to a non-white background any time soon (except for sidebars and the like).


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## the-golem (Mar 23, 2011)

Morrus said:


> Well, I've heard millions of complaints about PDFs _not_ being on a white background - but this is a first for me!
> 
> Printer ink and toner being what it is, I can't see us changing to a non-white background any time soon (except for sidebars and the like).




Personally, if I find I'm going to be doing extensive reading onscreen, I adjust my monitor with its magic "text" preset. It's brilliant, really. ;-)


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## Morrus (Mar 23, 2011)

Heh, well this thread has been thoroughly derailed!  So what do people think about the actual _content_ of the Primer?


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## the-golem (Mar 23, 2011)

Morrus said:


> Heh, well this thread has been thoroughly derailed!  So what do people think about the actual _content_ of the Primer?




I'm sorry, I couldn't read any of it, the sheer brightness of the colors blinded me (save ends).

Just kidding. I think it's quite awesome, and feels almost Victorian (?) to me. Seems like a very high-industry setting, but yet, not "steampunk". I'm intrigued.


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## john112364 (Mar 23, 2011)

I think I really like the feel of this setting. This intro is a great teaser. It draws you in and makes you want more.


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## Morrus (Mar 25, 2011)

Here's the version with the real world map for you sneaky previewing in the forum folks!

Again, this is the 4E version (we've added a 4E icon to make that clear, so you know which version of something you're looking at). Pathfinder doesn't have 4E-isms like the Shadowfell, Feywild, or core PC races like Tieflings and Dragonborn, so a lot of that fluff will change. At the moment we're considering renaming the Shadowfell and Feywild to _The Bleak Gate_ and _The Dreaming_, respectively, and we'll need to do some race-switching for the overall setting. We haven't yet fully decided whether to simply have different names for Pathfinder, or rename everything for both.

Plus this version has fancy layering controls, 'cos hey, why not utlilize the strengths of a PDF?  You can turn off various graphical elements individually to suit your printer-ink costs and aesthetic sensibilities.  I think that's awesome!


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## Almightyfoon (Mar 25, 2011)

I'm liking the idea behind the tieflings, that alone might make me take a look. I may bring some ideas from the Iron Kingdoms RPG depending on whats actually in the book.


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## Morrus (Mar 25, 2011)

Both the 4E and PATHFINDER versions of the Player Primer are now available.


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## the-golem (Mar 26, 2011)

This is much better. I like the cool typefaces you've put into this one. That map is epic too. Who's the cartographer?


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## RangerWickett (Mar 26, 2011)

Jonathan Roberts - Fantastic Maps | The fantasy cartography of Jon Roberts


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## Zaukrie (Mar 27, 2011)

Big fan of the primer. It sounds interesting and like something I might run for a new group that might be forming.

I probably missed it, but how close are we to releases?


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## Sentack (Mar 29, 2011)

I like it, a good start at least.  I'm curious to read about all the different cultures.  Seems though you're going with a traditional top 3 to start.  Big human empire, The dieing Elven empire and the reclusive dwarves.  Not that it's a bad thing but it's okay to start.  Big thumps up on how Devas work, that's an awesome concept.  I love it.  I like how you added in the Tiefling empire but lumping all the 'other' races into a 'Monster empire' is sort of odd.  I'll admit, with D&D 4e, there are just way too many damn races sometimes.  Adding them in to any campaign can be rather problematic so I can see you've taken a bit of a 'and here's the mixing pot' approach to dealing with one off race/class options. (You're a Goblin Bard?  Okay fine, you're from here...)

The interesting concept will be if anyone wants to play an Eladrin female.  How is that going to work?

Over all, I really am looking forward to this new product.  It looks rather awesome, I must say and I think it's going to keep me subscribed to the site for many months to come.


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## Morrus (Mar 29, 2011)

Sentack said:


> I like how you added in the Tiefling empire but lumping all the 'other' races into a 'Monster empire' is sort of odd. I'll admit, with D&D 4e, there are just way too many damn races sometimes. Adding them in to any campaign can be rather problematic so I can see you've taken a bit of a 'and here's the mixing pot' approach to dealing with one off race/class options. (You're a Goblin Bard? Okay fine, you're from here...)




If someone's really dead set on playing a half-thri-kreen-half-goliath-paladin, we figure it's best on leaving that to the DM's judgement. We don't want to tell him "no, you absolutely can't".  You can trim that down to whatever limitations you prefer.



> The interesting concept will be if anyone wants to play an Eladrin female. How is that going to work?




"Most" eladrin females.


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## Eccles (Mar 29, 2011)

Colour me intrigued. Steampunk is always a winner as far as I'm concerned! The primer looks really good, I thought - lovely map, I quite like the background, tbh - and the stuff up the edges looks good too.


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## RangerWickett (Mar 29, 2011)

Sentack said:


> The interesting concept will be if anyone wants to play an Eladrin female.  How is that going to work?




You'd almost certainly not be one of the 500 year old survivors, but rather a descendant of an eladrin who happened to survive. Maybe you or your mom was a prized possession of an tiefling aristocrat (anything rare is seen as a sign of status, and eladrin women are very rare), but she managed to smuggle you out of the country to be fostered in Risur.


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## mdusty (Apr 3, 2011)

So....for the Pathfinder version..... i see a place for humans, elves, dwarves, half-orcs all mentioned in the primer.  half-elves are self-explainatory.  but what about halflings & gnomes?  what part will they play in this world if any?


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## RangerWickett (Apr 3, 2011)

Halflings chill mostly in the Risur countryside, not usually getting involved in world affairs aside from the occasional bad apple with wanderlust, whose knack of adventure is a total disgrace to good halflings everywhere.

Gnomes? They tend to roam.

I gotta admit, I've got no plans for halflings or gnomes in the campaign. I mean, they'll show up here and there as individuals, and they're of course valid as player characters, but they're not populous enough to play a major role.

Maybe some day we should do an adventure focused entirely on the wee folk.


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## renau1g (Apr 7, 2011)

As long as it's just a short adventure you should be fine...


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## Zinovia (Apr 10, 2011)

I like what you have shown us, both in terms of content and layout design.  It looks very Victorian, while maintaining the legibility of more modern type.  The races and history are intriguing.  What you did with devas is cool.  The map is amazing.  So far it is looking like a very interesting adventure path.  Nice work!


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## Colmarr (Apr 11, 2011)

I have to say: Whoever did this primer did an awesome job. 

I'd been sort of ignoring Zeitgeist until the prospect of an upcoming TPK in our current campaign reared its head. Then I checked this primer and now I'm not sure I'd be that upset if that TPK came to pass.

I love the layout and the map and the idea. 

About the only suggestion I would have made if I'd seen it in draft would have been to get the timeline onto the front page somehow. Until you read that timeline (I ignored it at first) - particularly the hows and whys of the goddess' death - the setting doesn't really "click".

I have to ask though (forgive me if it's the wrong thread), is Zeitgeist inspired by either of:


Robin Hobb's _Soldier Son_ trilogy; or
the Dragon/Dungeon article they published just prior to the end of 3.5 that listed alternate philosophical clashes to build a campaign around. I think the article was called Zeitgeist (or at least used the term)
I specifically remember the latter because Nature/Technology was the clash that really fired my imagination.


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## RangerWickett (Apr 11, 2011)

Colmarr said:


> I have to ask though (forgive me if it's the wrong thread), is Zeitgeist inspired by either of:
> 
> 
> Robin Hobb's _Soldier Son_ trilogy; or
> ...




I'd never heard of Robin Hobb's trilogy before. However I recall, when we were bandying about possible names for the series, I was leaning toward Zeitgeist, so I googled the term and a few other D&D-isms to see if it was already in use. I found the article, and was surprised by how some of its ideas linked up with ideas we were already working on. Who knows; maybe I subconsciously was inspired by an article I forget I'd read 2 years earlier.


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## Wednesday Boy (Apr 11, 2011)

I love the flavor you've given to tieflings, eladrin, devas, and dwarves.

I think it'd be fun to play a dwarven star warlock who is trying to get in good with those ancient horrors in the glaciers to try to avoid the frigid death that they'll bring once they claw free.

Of course that's assuming those ancient horrors are far realm ancient horrors.  It'd be awfully unfortunate to make a pact with the far realm only to learn your far realm masters have no connection to the horrors in the glaciers.


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