# Noble titles



## Noldor Elf (Oct 17, 2002)

What titles you use for nobles in your games? 

Typical "human" titles just don't sound right for dwarves and elves, so I need some other suggestions.


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## Celebrim (Oct 17, 2002)

Dwarven rulers are tradiationally called 'Thanes', after the Anglo-Saxon name for a clan chieftain.   It is a Tolkeinism.  It would be reasonable then to entitle thier knights 'Carls' or some such northern europeanism, and of course this would mean a thane would have a reutine of Huscarls - 'Knights of the Household'.

Elven rulers are tradiationally simply called Lords and Ladies, also I believe a Tolkienism.  In my campaign I've also used the titles 'Matron', 'Patron', 'Lord High Warden', 'Captain', 'Mistress', 'Prince', 'King', 'Sir', and 'Master'.   I don't find the use of English titles all that incongrous, because I've decided that inventing languages for RP use is more trouble than it is worth (players cannot be expected to take the time to learn them).

Both Elves and Dwarves have been known to have 'High Kings', also a Tolkeinism which I believe he got from the tradiations of Irish legend.


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## tarchon (Oct 17, 2002)

Noldor Elf said:
			
		

> *What titles you use for nobles in your games?
> 
> Typical "human" titles just don't sound right for dwarves and elves, so I need some other suggestions. *




For my dwarves I've used the fairly obvious "Hold Lord" for the CEO of a dwarfhold.  Other titles were "Miner-General" (the head priest of Dumathoin and head of the dwarf intelligence service), and "Lord of the Ales," who was sort of a seneschal.
The Miner-General was a fun NPC - I think the devious dwarf spymaster put some healthy fear into the PCs.
IRL, many medieval titles and offices had evolved from odd beginnings, so you see the Master of the King's Hawks and Gyrfalcons, the Lord Lyon (the chief herald in the UK), the Pontifex Maximus (literally "greatest bridge-builder"), etc.
Just think of state offices that the culture may have had in its early days and imagine that that office steadily accrued more power until, say, the Keeper of the King's Bowstring is the chief minister.


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## Dareoon Dalandrove (Oct 17, 2002)

I know in dragonlance the heads of the clans are Thanes.  The head of all the Thanes is the Grand Thane.  At least that is how I think it went.  I know if you look you will be able to find some elven titles in those books as well.

You could do something like Robert Jordan does with Lan.  He just adds on a couple of letter to their name and bam insto-title.  I think that is a great idea for both races.  It's a way to say that you have done more world designing than you have and it's a good idea.  Plus both races are old as time so it is conceiveable that they may both have the same system.

You could also get a foriegn dictionary and look up some words like: lord, master, etc.


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## Azure Trance (Oct 17, 2002)

I just did a lot of research on Noble Titles last night - English, French, German, Italian and Russian. They were all similar to each other in pecking order - King, Prince, etc, but looking them up in different languages might help you give a feel for them (Konig, Graf, etc).


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## Maerdwyn (Oct 17, 2002)

A very useful site on European titles of nobility:
http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/titlefaq.htm

and, on the same site, more titles than you can shake a stick at:
http://www.heraldica.org/faqs/titel.htm


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## Tonguez (Oct 19, 2002)

I use the Mongol title Khan for Kings/Princes etc

so Hadrama Khan of Opak = King Hadrama of Opak

I use the Ethiopian title Ras for Lords/Leaders of Clans

So Ras Benari = Lord Benari

I invented the word Sekh for Kngihts

so Ras Kafar ibn Kali Sekh = Lord-Knight Kafar ibn Kali


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## Deadguy (Oct 19, 2002)

*Dwarfs*
I like the idea that orderly Dwarfs like to have good structures and titles. So, for example, the title of Hold Lord, as mentioned by tarchon, has a nice ring to it. Perhaps with a council of advisors made up of the Forge Master, the Master of the Mines, the War Chief, and the Master of the Hearth. Of course, if ties of blood are more important then Clan Lords will be the ruling body, answering perhaps to a Lord of Lords.

*Elves*
I go with the idea of Elves using descriptive titles that might be very long, convoluted but carrying a great deal of history within them. So that in Common the elven chief's name might be High Guardian of the Streams, Challenger of Gildanax the Green Wyrm, Finder of the Lost Temple of the Hooded Sun, Starborn beneath the Boughs of the Grey Oak. Of course, they'd need a shorter working title for day-to-day use (or would they? elves have plenty of time withal). Carry this through for other people of import. Naturally it will be hard to work out the hierarchy, but then these elves eschew hierarchy, being Chaotic and all!


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## Agback (Oct 20, 2002)

G'day

In my campaign the hieracrhy of titles is actually Hegemon, Kreion, Anax, Kyrion (a term of address encompassing several titles at equivalent rank such as basileos, tyrannos, despotes, etc), medon, Aretos, eugeneios; or in the Decadent Period effectively Polemarkhos, Episkopos, Krites, Hypokrites, medon, eugeneios.

Last time I had a campaign with dwarves in it they used Scottish titles: king, thane, chieftain, etc.

An note ot a previous poster: 'thane' in Old English meant 'servant [of the king]', not 'head of the clan'. The head of a saxon clan was usually addressed as 'hlaford' (meaning, originally, 'loaf-giver'). 


Regards,


Agback


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## Quill_Quayuazue (Oct 20, 2002)

*Noble Titles*

I have foundthat is interesting to make up Title names for each race and that all members of the race may not use  the same titles as with our real world race of humans. My game was new when I started this and I used the immagination of the players to create some of the titles of thier rulers. As mentioned earlier, players may not be expected to learn an new language to play the game they seem to retain the names and titles that they have helped to create.  -- Your champaign world is not your own, it is an assimilation of immagination from all involved--


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