# D&D Outsider - Wilden & Shardmind



## Nemesis Destiny (Jan 27, 2011)

Dungeons & Dragons Roleplaying Game Official Home Page - Article (Wilden & Shardminds)

New article up. Looks like mostly fluff. Amusing fluff, but fluff nonetheless.


----------



## AbdulAlhazred (Jan 27, 2011)

Pure fluff, but if any races could use a bit of exposition it would be those two.


----------



## Nemesis Destiny (Jan 27, 2011)

Or, if any two races would have been better off on the cutting room floor, it's those two.

I didn't particularly care for _any_ of the races in PH3 though, so I guess that should be taken with a grain of salt.

The racial options, like most other options in 4e, are already bordering on ridiculous in quantity, but seriously lacking in quality.

Most of these silly new races I just ignore, and if someone in my game wants to play one then they have to sell me on the concept. Or make the mechanics fit a more "normal"-looking race. Call it old-fashioned, call it short-sighted, call it Tolkienish grognardia, but *enough with the freaks*, already.

That's my two coppers. YMMV.


----------



## interwyrm (Jan 27, 2011)

Nemesis Destiny said:


> Or, if any two races would have been better off on the cutting room floor, it's those two.




The more I think about this, the more I disagree. Shadar-kai, shades, tieflings, devas, revenants, and even goliaths... they all could have been done as feat chains or (preferably) themes a la dark sun. 

Shardminds and wilden are substantively different from the standard races.


----------



## catastrophic (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah if anything, races should be less about trek-style humans with head bumps, and more about genuinly wierd creatures. We have enough demihumans, the game should focus on non-humans for new races.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 27, 2011)

Kudos to [MENTION=71815]OhGodtheRats[/MENTION] for the article. I hadn't thought of mixing warforged components and shardminds, but it works beautifully. So much so that Shardminds, as is, can stand-in for the Psiforged. In Keith Baker's ( [MENTION=15800]Hellcow[/MENTION] ) The Dreaming Dark series, one of the villains was Harmattan, a warforged composed of telekinetically-controlled metal shards. A shardmind would be perfect for that.

For either race (and the bladelings, before them), the biggest hurdle, IMHO, is the art. Neither (or none of the three) races has a really compelling look.


----------



## OhGodtheRats (Jan 27, 2011)

What's funny is writing "Amusing Fluff" may actually be in my job description with D&D Outsider.

If Rock-Candy Folk & Plant People didn't seem to many to be kinda goofy, one-note, & hard to role-play in a normal game, it wouldn't be easy/fun/necessary(?) to write an Article about them.  See also my old Deva article, born from my irritation at a race inherently "Super Good". (Which shockingly got mechanical stuff months later turning my jokes = paragon paths.)  Sticks & Stones both have interesting things lurking behind the "Holy Crap its a Rock/Weed Man with a Magic wand" stumbling block.  Well, I like to think.  That's a big hurdle for some, I confess.
So yeah, I'm not defending myself or arguing, but I am saying that writing about races folks love to hate & trying to hammer some comedic sense into them (the races, I leave folks who hate un-hammered)...it's kinda what I try to do. "Try" being the key word here.
-Jared


----------



## Zephrin the Lost (Jan 27, 2011)

I thought this was a great article, even if I'm not 100% sold on these races as PC's. I enjoyed the use of humor in explaining the viewpoints of these alien beings and how their unique outlooks can be adapted to play.

I plan on using a wilden 'grove' as an NPC community in my campaign so this has a practical use for me as well. 

A little off topic, but if my group came to the table with a Wilden, a Shardmind, a Deva, a Gensi and a drow, I'd play it as they are basically the Justice League, but all Martian Manhunters.  Unless you can wrangle a secret identity somehow, general hanging out in population isn't going to happen. 

--Z


----------



## AbdulAlhazred (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah, I think the only other area of information that would be cool for these races would be an article really going into some details on their societies. We have some general info but what exactly does a Wilden community LOOK like? Do they construct anything? What sort of social organization do they use? What are their relations with their neighbors actually like? A model community for the wilden would be great. Something that the DM can drop into a game and use. That would make bringing them to life as a campaign element a lot easier. As it is we have little to go on in that respect. I can make a human or demi-human village or whatever easily enough as I know basically what it is going to be like from everyday experience. I don't even know where to start with the wilden really.

Shardminds don't seem to have much in the way of organized society, or at least they are basically outsiders without a necessary presence in the normal world. Still, some sort of shardmind outpost or something would be a huge boon.


----------



## Ryujin (Jan 27, 2011)

Good article and I rather like the Shardmind as a Construct character race, though in reality the whole town would probably roll out, with pitchforks, if one ever tried to get in the gate


----------



## Wednesday Boy (Jan 27, 2011)

Klaus said:


> For either race (and the bladelings, before them), the biggest hurdle, IMHO, is the art. Neither (or none of the three) races has a really compelling look.




That is one of my two turnoffs for both races.  I also dislike the narrow focus in their backstories (although the article did a great job expanding it) but I could get past that if they looked cooler to me.  It's like when I play Star Wars--I always choose a race that I thought was cool-looking in the movies (Ithorians, Chevins, Quarrens, etc.) opposed to based on their stats.

My favorite part of the article was the Shardmind Slayer concept.  That would make for a great character or adversary.


----------



## interwyrm (Jan 27, 2011)

I really would like it if Wizards would ditch sexual dimorphism for some of the weirder races. Why do there have to be male/female shardminds and wilden?

I could have sworn Thri-Keen used to be exclusively female, and Muls used to be exclusively male. Dragonborn could have been more interesting if the females were slightly bigger than the males, and neither had mammaries.

Shardmind art would have been better without trying to force weird creatures into human sexual shapes.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 27, 2011)

> That is one of my two turnoffs for both races. I also dislike the narrow focus in their backstories (although the article did a great job expanding it) but I could get past that if they looked cooler to me.




I tried making them look a bit better for Counter Collection 4e Heroic 3. I'm not too keen on the wilden's wedge-shaped head, though. And the shardmind look better when it seems they're made of smaller, irregular crystals, even to the point of being a bit asymetrical.


----------



## I'm A Banana (Jan 27, 2011)

It is solid.

He is *so wrong* about "Wilden" being better than "Killoren", though.

First, having KILL in the name of your race is friggin' badass. 

Second, "killoren" have a nice little celtic lilt to them.

Third, hurling around buzzwords randomly and without thought is never to be rewarded or complimented. We've seen enough "wild" and "war" and "mind" to choke a cliche pit. 

They've gotten better since 4e's launch, but "Wilden" is really a bad name, dood.


----------



## AbdulAlhazred (Jan 27, 2011)

Well, I bet they has another name for itselves, but who speaks wilden?


----------



## Ryujin (Jan 27, 2011)

Kamikaze Midget said:


> It is solid.
> 
> He is *so wrong* about "Wilden" being better than "Killoren", though.
> 
> ...




This hasn't really gotten all that much worse since PHB1 and the Ranger's Hunter's Bear Claw Trap Boar's Charge Careful Nimble Twin Strike of Doom.


----------



## hutchback (Jan 27, 2011)

Klaus said:


> For either race (and the bladelings, before them), the biggest hurdle, IMHO, is the art. Neither (or none of the three) races has a really compelling look.




I too agree with this. I like the concept of the Wilden, but who wants to look like a Wolverine topiary?

I also feel that the three aspects should have greater diversity visually.


----------



## FireLance (Jan 28, 2011)

AbdulAlhazred said:


> Well, I bet they has another name for itselves, but who speaks wilden?



I bet the Lorax can.


----------



## OhGodtheRats (Jan 28, 2011)

Oh man, on Wilden vs. Killoren:

How many people played Killoren back in the day? (How many people knew the Wilden weren't really new?)  I didn't play D&D at the time so I kind of assume that people have the same problems with monster races today as they did in yesteryear.  Killoren is a totally badass name & Wilden isn't a better one...it's just one that sounds more like a race that's One with the Wilderness rather than a race that WANTS TO KILL YOU.  The name Killoren is about a subtle as StabMinds or Murderbrotchen.  It's cool....but a player wanting to play a weird race doesn't need to fight the uphill battle against the DM just by saying the Race's Name. Killoren screams "Killer" which kinda falls into the "disruptive monster PC" trap.  Or something. To Some. Or so I blather.  
(PS: I'm posting this here and not on the D&D Boards, though apparently the same guy is really upset by the name Wilden on both. And CrossPosting is just weird to me.)

@FireLance: Damn it, did I seriously forget to make a Lorax joke. Well played, good sir.
Also, in D&D the damn Lorax is out of work. What with Treants, Eladrin, Gnomes, Elves, Wilden, Druids, etc clogging up the "Speaking for the Trees" job market in the D&D Universe.  Guy should've filed a copyright or something, all these off-brand tree-speakers just ruin it for everyone.
-Jared

Edit: I pretend that every person follows me on Twitter, where I blather about this sort of thing (including the new Six Flags D&D Ride that's coming out, complete with Venger+Stupid Unicorn), but since Sexual Dimorphism in Fantasy came up, all I can say is that I'm really glad D&D isn't like Wow.  Check this out:
http://www.wired.com/underwire/2007/05/sexual_dimorphi/ 
It's like 1st edition's Female Template got revived or some madness.  Oh my.

Edit Edit: 
Also for kicks, here's the picture of the Killoren from "Races of the Wild", which while they were featured, focused more on Raptoreans become a new standard Race.  Or something. It's an old book by my newbian standards.
http://www.wizards.com/dnd/images/row_gallery/86635.jpg
I personally don't know why they ditched the Grinch-That-Stole-Xmas physique.


----------



## Wednesday Boy (Jan 28, 2011)

Klaus said:


> I tried making them look a bit better for Counter Collection 4e Heroic 3. I'm not too keen on the wilden's wedge-shaped head, though. And the shardmind look better when it seems they're made of smaller, irregular crystals, even to the point of being a bit asymetrical.




Great pictures but I'm still not feeling the general image of the races.  I think if the wilden were more plantish like a treant I would love them.  I don't know what would make the Shardmind look better to me.



hutchback said:


> I too agree with this. I like the concept of the Wilden, but who wants to look like a Wolverine topiary?




Heh, I was just going to make a Wolverine haircut comment too!


----------



## Dragonhelm (Jan 29, 2011)

Klaus said:


> For either race (and the bladelings, before them), the biggest hurdle, IMHO, is the art. Neither (or none of the three) races has a really compelling look.




I have to agree.  Thing is, the shardmind shouldn't have to look that bad.  When I think about them, I think about Crystar.







BTW, I like your take on the Wilden.  Vast improvement, IMO.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2011)

I always felt the Dr. Who special effects/costume/makeup crew did an excellent job with the silicon-based life form known as Eldrad.


----------



## Dragonhelm (Jan 29, 2011)

I could see shardminds in Dark Sun as obsidian men.  

Obsidimen?  Sounds like Earthdawn to me.


----------



## Incenjucar (Jan 29, 2011)

One of the big mistakes being made with this art is a lack of variation. There's no reason for creatures made of plants or crystals to be nearly all clones of one another. There's certainly a value to having tightly-controlled and thus recognizable art, but you won't excite imaginations if every scene is just the same characters doing the paper doll routine.

Think of all the nutty variations of warforged we've seen. I'm not a huge fan of the race, but they've got some darn good art floating around.


----------



## Klaus (Jan 29, 2011)

Not to mention: one of the Shardminds in the MM3 is the Warseeker, who goes out in search of other Shardminds to kill. To disguise itself, the Shardmind Warseeker goes about dressed in full plate armor, with only its glowing eyes showing through the helm's visor.

So it'd be neat to see shardminds in plate armor. Or wilden paladins of Melora in scale armor, etc.


----------



## OhGodtheRats (Jan 29, 2011)

Klaus said:


> Not to mention: one of the Shardminds in the MM3 is the Warseeker, who goes out in search of other Shardminds to kill. To disguise itself, the Shardmind Warseeker goes about dressed in full plate armor, with only its glowing eyes showing through the helm's visor.



Totally my favorite thing (after Townsend's Banderhobs) from that Monster Manual....partially because it gives mechanical evidence that players can hide their Race if they want to by dressing up (a liberal thought by some DM standards....I've actually heard "Half-Orcs walk differently" when confronted with a player who wore a mask Mexican Wrestler Style/make-up to hide his race)  & partially because it's a monster that's a Player Race walking around being a DICK, disguised as the heroic knight on a horse.  
If I ever ran this guy, I'd make sure the players realized something was wrong when the knight swiveled his head unnaturally 180 degrees. Shardmind biology is fun.
-Jared


----------



## Klaus (Jan 29, 2011)

OhGodtheRats said:


> Totally my favorite thing (after Townsend's Banderhobs) from that Monster Manual....partially because it gives mechanical evidence that players can hide their Race if they want to by dressing up (a liberal thought by some DM standards....I've actually heard "Half-Orcs walk differently" when confronted with a player who wore a mask Mexican Wrestler Style/make-up to hide his race)  & partially because it's a monster that's a Player Race walking around being a DICK, disguised as the heroic knight on a horse.
> If I ever ran this guy, I'd make sure the players realized something was wrong when the knight swiveled his head unnaturally 180 degrees. Shardmind biology is fun.
> -Jared



Wouldn't that be shardming _geology_?


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2011)

Shardmind _anatomy_ is the word you're searching for.


----------



## Incenjucar (Jan 29, 2011)

Klaus said:


> Not to mention: one of the Shardminds in the MM3 is the Warseeker, who goes out in search of other Shardminds to kill. To disguise itself, the Shardmind Warseeker goes about dressed in full plate armor, with only its glowing eyes showing through the helm's visor.
> 
> So it'd be neat to see shardminds in plate armor. Or wilden paladins of Melora in scale armor, etc.




You know what 4E needs?

_Official art contests._


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Jan 29, 2011)

While I've never been a big fan of Shardminds (despite having a Shardmind character now ), I've always thought Killoren or Wilden could have a pretty big place in a campaign.  The biggest problem they used to have is that there was already elves as the derpy hippy tree hugger race.  I think the 4e elf is less "my trees ;_;" and more badass Iroquois warriors, which leaves the nature-y guy trope open for the Wilden.


----------



## DracoSuave (Jan 30, 2011)

Firstly, Stabmen sounds like the best thing ever.  I will give all the money to Stabman.

Secondly, not every race appeals to me.  I think drow are kinda stupid, as well as the whole 'If you put a race underground they turn chaotic or evil or both and get the name Dark _______' mentality.  Or in the case of dwarves, more underground.  Bah.  But I don't think drow shouldn't be in the game, far from it.  The game, as a whole, is made better by multiple options, and for every person that absolutely hates one option, someone else absolutely loves it.  For whatever reason.

Just because drow are stupid doesn't make anyone stupid for liking them, or the game stupid for having them.

Ah, subjectivity.

Time to hop on the character creater and make that Wilden Wild Battlemind/Wilder/Wildrunner i've always wanted.  Any ideas for an epic destiny?


----------



## Kingreaper (Jan 30, 2011)

DracoSuave said:


> Time to hop on the character creater and make that Wilden Wild Battlemind/Wilder/Wildrunner i've always wanted.  Any ideas for an epic destiny?




Multiclass into barbarian, and take Fury of the Wild?


----------



## DracoSuave (Jan 30, 2011)

That's quite doable, seeing as I'm already in barbarian for Wildrunner!


----------



## I'm A Banana (Jan 30, 2011)

> Wilden Wild Battlemind/Wilder/Wildrunner




Make him in Dark Sun, so you can have a Wild Talent.

And then join him up with a shardmind battlemind, and a warforged warlord/warlock|warden.

WILDWARBATTLEMINDS UNITE!


----------



## Nahat Anoj (Jan 30, 2011)

While I don't find their default racial stories to be particularly interesting, I really like the wilden and shardminds and feel they are valuable additions to my game. I especially like shardminds because they add a sci-fi flair to my games that I think is cool.


----------



## Dungeoneer (Feb 1, 2011)

I actually thought the stories for Wilden and Shardminds were way cooler than hooks for playing sentient plants and sentient rocks had any right to be.  They also have decent RP hooks and distinctive physical characteristics (I love that Wilden have seasons and Shardminds can lose their forms).  They're not for every campaign, but they're there if you want 'em.

The art didn't grab me, though.


----------



## Jhaelen (Feb 2, 2011)

Incenjucar said:


> You know what 4E needs?
> 
> _Official art contests._



Didn't they actually do some? I vaguely remember a call for submissions to pick art for the ... uh ... catastrophic (?) dragons.

The 4e shardmind art is kind of okay, though I'd prefer them looking more weird (i.e. not bipedal, symmetrical humanoids) or even undefined (transformer-style).

The wilden art sucks big time, though. I'd prefer either something like the Wood Woads (or the Sylvans from the Dark Age of Camelot MMORPG) or something more sinister looking similar to the 4e dryad battleshape or 'Swamp Thing'.


----------



## Dungeoneer (Feb 2, 2011)

Jhaelen said:


> Didn't they actually do some? I vaguely remember a call for submissions to pick art for the ... uh ... catastrophic (?) dragons.
> 
> The 4e shardmind art is kind of okay, though I'd prefer them looking more weird (i.e. not bipedal, symmetrical humanoids) or even undefined (transformer-style).
> 
> The wilden art sucks big time, though. I'd prefer either something like the Wood Woads (or the Sylvans from the Dark Age of Camelot MMORPG) or something more sinister looking similar to the 4e dryad battleshape or 'Swamp Thing'.



To be fair to the artists, if the art direction was in fact 'plant-like cat people' then I suppose they were doing the best they could.


----------



## phloog (Feb 2, 2011)

The big problem is that there IS a Wilden word for their race, but it translates roughly as Battleblademind.


----------



## Ryujin (Feb 2, 2011)

As far as the Shardmind artwork is concerned, to me they tend to be somewhat less symetrical than I would prefer for creatures that were formed out of the gate holding back the ultimate stuff of chaos. I think of creatures as being like the Star Trek Tholians are sometimes depicted; formed of large and perfect crystals, in logical arrangements. I don't see chaos being opposed by things that are 'imperfect.'


----------



## Incenjucar (Feb 2, 2011)

Jhaelen said:


> Didn't they actually do some?




Maybe?

If they have, it certainly hasn't been very often. I think that the sense of brand ownership would benefit greatly from having art contest as often as Blizzard does for WoW.


----------



## Klaus (Feb 2, 2011)

Jhaelen said:


> Didn't they actually do some? I vaguely remember a call for submissions to pick art for the ... uh ... catastrophic (?) dragons.
> 
> The 4e shardmind art is kind of okay, though I'd prefer them looking more weird (i.e. not bipedal, symmetrical humanoids) or even undefined (transformer-style).
> 
> The wilden art sucks big time, though. I'd prefer either something like the Wood Woads (or the Sylvans from the Dark Age of Camelot MMORPG) or something more sinister looking similar to the 4e dryad battleshape or 'Swamp Thing'.



WotC's Senior Art Director, Jon Schindehette, runs an artists' community/blog named ArtOrder ( theartorder.com ). He has run several challenges there (two of them were official "winner illustration is published in Dragon/Dungeon").


----------



## Incenjucar (Feb 3, 2011)

Klaus said:


> WotC's Senior Art Director, Jon Schindehette, runs an artists' community/blog named ArtOrder ( theartorder.com ). He has run several challenges there (two of them were official "winner illustration is published in Dragon/Dungeon").




That's pretty useless though, since barely anyone would be aware of it, especially the new folks who haven't discovered the larger gaming community yet. You need to give random 13 year olds a chance to send in sloppy drawings, not just a hidden pocket of professionals who you are buddies with. It would be like Bioware throwing a contest on Elfwood.

It's fine if only professionals get any recognition, of course, but it should be on the main page so D&D fans of all art sites can find it.


----------

