# [OT] This week's Buffy [WARNING SPOILERS!]



## Hand of Vecna (May 8, 2002)

all I have to say is

OH MY FARKIN' GOD!!!!!






_just added the spoiler warning_


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## Replica (May 8, 2002)

Wow...


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## Mark (May 8, 2002)

The kiss of death?


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## Crothian (May 8, 2002)

3 episodes to go.  What a great episode.  Warren finally tried something smart.


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## Dr Midnight (May 8, 2002)

Yep. I'd read the spoilers, but it was still a very powerful episode. I don't believe I'll read the spoilers on the rest of the season, cause... damn. I love this freakin' show.


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## Chimera (May 8, 2002)

Wow.  I would NOT want to be Warren.


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## Bronn Spellforger (May 8, 2002)

I got chills seeing Warren with his mouth all tied up.. and Willow saying, "Shhh... shhh..."

Holy crap!   Next week should be good. 

Weird how Angel kinda sucked this week ("Oh! My son's back! And he hates me! Shocker!") and Buffy got better.

But Spike left!  WTF!?


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## Henry (May 8, 2002)

In the words of Eric Noah...... Crap On a Stick.

This episode did NOT end how I expected it to.

SPOILERS
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Tara Dead? That one hit me like a ton of emotional bricks. Even though I heard the rumors, I stayed spoiler-free. Silly me. WOW!

We already know Buffy isn't dying from the previews, but - I still say it - crap. WOW. Unh.


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## el-remmen (May 8, 2002)

Yes, it was an excellent episode. . .

I just knew Tara was going to bite it, if only because they never bothered to put her in the opening credits but with a "featuring" or "also" title. . . 

It is bound to be intense.


I also wanted to say that I thought Buffy was going to stake  Spike after he tried to rape her.  WHen Xander waled in I thought the camera would spin around and show a pile of dust there.


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## Wormwood (May 8, 2002)

Very, very powerful. 

Why does Willow look so good when she's bad?


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## Crothian (May 8, 2002)

I'm just happy that someone finally thought to use a gun.


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## Methinkus (May 8, 2002)

SPOILERS 
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I cant tell how I feel about this one.  I never thought some punk with a gun would just run up and kill important characters.  Part of me says “that hardly seems right.  Why all the plotting and scheming?  Why deal with magic at all?  Why train a Slayer for a lifetime of work?  One bullet is all it could take.  That’s just not. . . . well, dramatic,”  while at the same time I have to think “hmm, this should take care of some of the arrogance of the lead characters.  Someone said in this episode, they never considered the three geeks a threat, well this is what you get from underestimating an opponent.  I like that the writers can step out of the usual tone of the show and have some kid with a gun run up and kill random characters, keeps you on your toes.  Life is fragile and all that,”

Whatever, it was a great episode, the ending was – clearly – VERY powerful.  I’m more bothered by Tara getting shot then I was when I thought the world would end last season.


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## Other Guy (May 8, 2002)

nemmerle said:
			
		

> *Yes, it was an excellent episode. . .
> 
> I just knew Tara was going to bite it, if only because they never bothered to put her in the opening credits but with a "featuring" or "also" title. . .
> *




Not quite; they put her in the opening credits for this episode .  In fact, that was the first thing I noticed watching it today.

It's too bad though.  I was so happy with the way last week's episode ended.  Those two were so adorable, and in the end it was like seeing a puppy get shot.

Still, next week should be loaded with fun.  I hope this time they let Willow become the monstrously powerful force of evil that she deserves to be so much.


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## Crothian (May 8, 2002)

Other Guy said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Not quite; they put her in the opening credits for this episode .  In fact, that was the first thing I noticed watching it today.
> 
> *




If you've seen the first season DVD on the audio commentary Josh says he wanted to do that in the first episode.  But an actor in the main credits that was going to die in the episode.  Glad to see he was finally able to do that.


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## Hand of Vecna (May 8, 2002)

D'oh! Knew I forgot something (the SPOILER in the title of this thread). Ah, well...

Yeah, at the end there I could just see Willow's Sanity draining away like water through a sieve...


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## William Ronald (May 8, 2002)

Well, I think the episode shows how quickly life can be taken away and the horrific consequences of anger.   These are real life issues, and I thought that the fact that the crime was committed as it would be in our world was appropriate.

The worst demons we face are the ones in our own souls.  I have seen people who seemed determined to be their own worst enemies or determined to make everyone pay for their pain.

Life is precious and must be valued.  This lesson has been shown in other Buffy episodes, especially where Joyce, Buffy's mom, died of a brain aneurysm.

Willow will likely become even worse than Warren in her vengeance.  Vengeance can become all consuming and prove to be worthless.  It never brings back a loved one.


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## Hand of Vecna (May 8, 2002)

but... Willow brought back Buffy...

(( yes, yes, I know, one of the vital components of the Dark Resurrection spell was destroyed by those Biker Demons... ))


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## Umbran (May 8, 2002)

Don't count on Tara being dead.  

In order to get Willow to go around the bend, she needs to _think_ Tara is dead or dying ("Please, dark powers, I'll give you *anything* if she lives...").


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## Nightfall (May 8, 2002)

Okay folks spoil it for me. PLEASE tell me what happened since I don't get UPN, I'm pratically CLUELESS every time a new Buffy comes along. 

*btw, the new Angel wasn't bad but I agree, seen better. Was a little surprised to see Holtz still alive. I figured he died of old age or what ever lives there in that Dark World place. Btw, was it just me or was that place just NOT scary. I mean I've seen worse on Hellraiser.*


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## Wormwood (May 8, 2002)

Actually, the shooting does serve to underscore how Sunnydale is more like Toontown than real life.

Where are the guns?

While the chop-socky and crossbows may be all cinematic and stuff, I simply fail to see why more vampires don't pack heat. I don't care how good the slayer's kung-fu is, glock-fu would beat it every time.

Bang. New slayer. Bang. New slayer. Like winning a teddy bear at a carnival.

Actually, the Scoobs may consider strapping on the irons (after proper instruction and training, of course). While a shotgun may not kill a vampire, it's probably more effective than Zander's lame right hook.


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## Zerovoid (May 8, 2002)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> *Actually, the shooting does serve to underscore how Sunnydale is more like Toontown than real life.
> 
> Where are the guns?
> 
> ...




Its a genre thing.  Its just like alot of space opera settings where characters have laser guns and energy weapons.  I've thought about this before, and I've decided that its not worth the trouble, and I think its cooler that they fight with crossbows and axes.

Part of this is that guns won't kill vampires, since you need a stake, sunlight, or beheading.  Be that as it may, it really makes sense to open up on the poor vamp with some sort of high caliber automatic weapon.  Then when their chest if pulped and they won't be getting up for a while, go in with the stake.

I guess Warren's just not playing by the rules anymore.  I wish I hadn't read spoilers for this episode, but even without them Tara's death is pretty obvious, and there've been rumors all season.  I'm almost reminded of the scene where Austin Powers runs over the minion with the very slow moving steam roller.

Tara might not stay dead though.  Anya is all vengence-y again, so maybe some wish will bring Tara back to life.


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## Howling Coyote (May 8, 2002)

If you shoot a vampires head with a shotgun at point-blank range, I would call that a pretty good beheading.


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## Flinx (May 8, 2002)

Tonight's episode actually isn't the first time someone's pulled a gun on the slayer.  The first time that I can remember was in the first season when Darla was shooting at her with a gun in each hand (before being staked by Angel).  Another time an assassin hired by Spike came to Sunnydale High as a policewoman and took some pot shots at Buffy and actually ended up grazing Oz.  

I've always gotten the feeling that  Joss Whedon doesn't like guns.  I have no proof of this, just a feeling I have.  I remember one episode (don't remember which) where Buffy picks up a gun, says something like "These things...never a good idea", tosses it aside and commences with the punching and kicking.  

As for tonight's episode, very intense.  My theory last week was that something bad was going to happen to Tara because we saw black-eyed Willow in the previews and because after nearly three years she still wasn't in the opening credits (not counting tonight).  Then, in the middle of the show, they had me worried that the rape scene was going to be the big trauma.  But then at the end, we saw a spray of blood hit Willow, then her cradling Tara, and then the black eyes turning red.  Good stuff.  Intense, but good.


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## River (May 8, 2002)

I think the issue for prognostication is....  Where is the show now, and where does it need to be by the end of next season.

"BVS" ends next year.  Geller has told everyone next season is it.  

Joss has spoken publicly about how catchy "Dawn the Vampire Slayer" sounds. (This is doubly true if Firefly his other new series doesn't take off)

So...

1. Faith needs to die so there can be a new slayer. (1 easy episode, on either BVS or Angle, or just do it off camera, probably it will be wrapped up in the series finale.)

2.  They need to decide which characters they're carrying over to the new series.  Angle did it with 2, and upped it to three after their first sidekick developed a drug issue.

Who can they use?

Geller: Gone

Hannigan (willow): Possible but unlikely. she's had some movie rolls during the series and may be planing on trading up.  Especially if she  gets killed as the new Big Bad next season.

Brendon(Xander): Probably; This guy had no good roles before buffy, and hasn't landed a movie roll during production.  If he likes being employed he'll probably want to stay on.  which is good IMHO.

Caufield(Anya):  Possible; More roles in her resume then Brendon, but nothing snazzy, and no movies. 

Marsters(spike)ossible, but he's also got movie credits...

So Figure Dawn and Xander for a spinoff.  Everyone else is expendable next season.


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## Hulkamaniac (May 8, 2002)

All I can say is that Spike has lost one of his biggest fans, and furthermore I hope Buffy dusts his #$% when he gets back. Warren is as good as dead in my book, as we've learned before you don't mess with Willow's lovers(male or female).


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## Barendd Nobeard (May 8, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Okay folks spoil it for me. PLEASE tell me what happened since I don't get UPN, I'm pratically CLUELESS every time a new Buffy comes along. *




Okay.  I missed the first few minutes, but here's what I remember.

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Let's see, the evil trio planned a series of bank jobs.  Willow and Tara were able to decode their plans and figure out the first one was "tonight" - and it was time-dependent, so had to happen tonight.

Meanwhile, Spike tried to rape Buffy, but didn't complete the evil act.  This scene is brutal.  Very hard to watch.

Warren (leader of evil trio), trashes a bar and starts to annoy women, Xander walks in and fights him.  Warren is now impervisous and super strong (or, as Xander put it, "he's gone all Mighty Mouse"), but before he can kill Xander, evil trio has to go to their first robbery (an amored car).

Buffy goes to stop them, but can't seem to beat Warren.  Short guy of evil trio grab her but whispers in her ear, "destory his orbs."  Buffy grabs Warren's belt pouch (I presume, with orbs inside) and smashes it.  He loses his power and freaks, but then takes off in his Rocketman-ish jet pack hidden under his jacket.  Other evil trio guy (blond hair), also takes off in a jet pack, but crashes into the roof above him.  Third guy (who warned Buffy), is pissed that he (1) didn't get a jet-pack and (2) didn't even know about the jet packs.  Cops arrive and take 2/3 of evil trio to jail.  Blond guy whines that leader promised they'd "be together forvever" - I think he's in love with Warren.

Later (next day?), Xander and Buffy are talking in backyard.  Sort of a 'repairing the relationship' scene.  Warren runs up, says something like "you can't do this to me" or "this isn't over" (can't remember) and shoots several times.  At least one bullet hits Buffy, and at least one other bullet travels through the window and hits Tara.  Willow, in anguish, goes all black-eye on us.  Uh-oh.


Previews for next week:  Willow is pissed.  Warren has his mouth stitched shut.  Creepy as hell.


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## The Dungeon Nazi (May 8, 2002)

So where did Spike go?  If things will be so "different" when he gets back, my first inclination was that he was going to have that chip removed.  On the other hand, that thing hasn't stopped him from going after Buffy, so it wouldn't change things very much for him to have it tinkered with.

Maybe it's just some wishful "OMG!-wouldn't-it-be-cool-if?!" thinking, but I put my money on Spikey running off to research Angel's soul-restoring ritual in hopes of snagging one for himself.


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## Chimera (May 8, 2002)

"Dawn the Vampire Slayer" (or some such) with Zander and Anya as the 'parental figures'/'Watchers in training' may just work for me.  Assuming the addition of 2-4 other characters to the cast, such as an older Watcher who gets killed at the end of season 2 or 3.

I'm very glad to hear the 'back to basics' tone for next year.


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## Crothian (May 8, 2002)

The Dungeon Nazi said:
			
		

> *So where did Spike go?  If things will be so "different" when he gets back, my first inclination was that he was going to have that chip removed.  On the other hand, that thing hasn't stopped him from going after Buffy, so it wouldn't change things very much for him to have it tinkered with.
> 
> Maybe it's just some wishful "OMG!-wouldn't-it-be-cool-if?!" thinking, but I put my money on Spikey running off to research Angel's soul-restoring ritual in hopes of snagging one for himself. *




Spike was pretty sappy when he had a soul, bad poetry included.  I think he is going to get the chip removed.  Maybe go find those demons they had in Angel that were really good and medicine (grafted body parts back on people and stuff).  With the chip gone he will try to prove to Buffy that he can love her.  Of course, that will probably change once he gets the chip out.

I was hoping they were going a different way with the Spike/Buffy relationship.  Back in secons season Angle told Spike the only way to defeat Buffy was to love her.  So, I was hoping that it was all a ploy by Spike.  So much for that idea.


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## Bronn Spellforger (May 8, 2002)

My guess is that Spike's gone for a few episodes and comes back to town with a big bandage on his head and the chip tied around his neck.  He comes back to kill Buffy, but finds out he's got feelings for her even without the chip!  That'd be cool.  Spike rules (although, after his little attemped rape, he's no longer my favorite character). 

Hey, whatever happened with that spin off show in England that Giles was going to be in?  Anyone hear anything about it?  I wonder if BBC America will run it?]

And why won't Buffy help Jonathan out a little?  He saved her life, after all...


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## A2Z (May 8, 2002)

Barendd Nobeard said:
			
		

> *Buffy goes to stop them, but can't seem to beat Warren.  Short guy of evil trio grab her but whispers in her ear, "destory his orbs."  Buffy grabs Warren's belt pouch (I presume, with orbs inside) and smashes it.*



When Jonathan said: "Smash his orbs" I was certain they were going to make a joke about it. You know. 


On another note. Buffy was shot. We know she's back next week so I wonder how they're going to deal with that. Maybe she's immortal now? That'd be kind cool(weird?). I mean the girl has died and gone to heaven already. Maybe she didn't come back 'wrong' but 'right'.


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## Florin (May 8, 2002)

Well, Joss has said that he likes to tie up all the loose ends at the end of each season, as if it was going to be the series finale instead of the season finale.  He's said that Willow will no longer be a junkie.  He's also said that next year will be more like Year One.

So, the loose ends that need to be tied up are:

  Willow being all dark magicy.
  Xander's and Anya's relationship.
  Spike and Buffy.
  Warren.

We'll start with Warren.  I have a feeiling that Willow will either kill him, or Buffy will save him from Willow, and he will be turned over to the police.

Spike and Buffy.  I figure Spike won't be back the rest of the season.  I see two futures, he gets his chip removed, continues to be a good guy over the summer, and comes back to Buffy to prove how nice of a guy he really is.  *Blech* is all I have to say about that.  Second future:  He gets the chip removed, he returns to his evil ways, he comes back to hurt Buffy.

Xander and Anya...  They'll go back to dating until they are ready to get hitched.

Willow, Willow, Willow...  I think Tara is dead and will stay dead.  The preview for next week made it look like whatever Power Willow was trying to bargain with wasn't accepting, which is why she goes after Warren.  So, it's up to the remaining Scoobies to snap Willow out of her rampage.  I expect a sappy "this isn't want Tara would want, is it?" speech that leaves Willow sobbing.

As for next season, I see Willow not having magic, ala Year One.  I see Xander and Anya dating.  I see Buffy without a love interest, but with a real evil to fight again, maybe Spike.  Eh, I don't know what to think about Dawn.  I do see a return to more lethal and evil monsters as opposed to Life being the big bad of the episode.


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## Florin (May 8, 2002)

A2Z said:
			
		

> *On another note. Buffy was shot. We know she's back next week so I wonder how they're going to deal with that. Maybe she's immortal now? That'd be kind cool(weird?). I mean the girl has died and gone to heaven already. Maybe she didn't come back 'wrong' but 'right'.  *




Slayers heal fast.  I don't think we saw her in many high-action sequences in the preview, so she might still be injured but have partial use of the arm.


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## Umbran (May 8, 2002)

As Spike himself put it, he has two options - be a monster or be a man.  That means getting the chip removed, or pissing off a gypsy to get a soul.

I doubt getting a soul will help, though.  One does not fogive attempted rape easily.  Xander was quite willing to go out and kill Spike.  Buffy isn't likely to let him off, either.  His actions have ruined his ability to have a relationship with Buffy, and I expect Spike realizes this.

He doesn't need to get the chip out to hurt Buffy directly.  But he needs it done to really be a monster.  Note that this would be coming full circle for Spike, a return to the beginning.  If you think back to the circumstances of his becoming a vampire in the first place, it looks like _deja vu_ all over again.


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## VoceNoctum1 (May 8, 2002)

I didn't like the attempted Rape, because it really served to "weaken" Buffy in that circumstance. I'm sure she didn't expect it, but her reactive power as the slayer should have easily allowed her to gain ground.

I figure Willow will somehow "burnout" her magic, and have none left. 

I didn't like the gun scene, for the simple reason that it was ill-concieved, rushed, and didn't fit with the tone of the show.

A rifle would have been better, seeing him off in the distance as Buffy and Tara hugged. "oh, I'm so glad you two are back toge.." ::BLAM!::

The episode kind of dragged really. Spike's "accidental" rape should have been done with a Demon Face on IMO. I guess they wanted to make it seem like his human side did it, but it would have been better had the implication been that it was linked to his Demon/ Animal.

The orb's were silly, as was the whole demon skin thing. The jet packs were cool, as was hitting the roof 
Missing the "break his orbs" commentfor a follow up joke was not right!


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## ghettognome (May 8, 2002)

I have been watching Buffy since the very first episode in the very first season, and only have missed like 2 episodes total. I have followed the character development and had been totally impressed at how the show developed. I could tell that it was starting to run out, and am not surprised that next season is the last season. This weeks Buffy had me sitting with my jaw to the floor. Totally intense. This show never fails to have me second guessing what is going to happen.
The whole Spike thing upset me since he was the best character IMO, I do think he is probably going to try and find a way to get that chip out since he seems to think that it being there is what is making him feel the way that he does. Who knows, maybe he will find Drucilla and they will go on like they used to, or was she killed the last time she came into Sunnydale? Was so long ago. I absolutely cannot wait until next week's episode!
As far as Angel goes, I missed that episode, his son is back? Is he grown up now? That is what I predicted would happen if they got him back, but I don't follow the show enough to know what happened.


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## drothgery (May 9, 2002)

River said:
			
		

> *Joss has spoken publicly about how catchy "Dawn the Vampire Slayer" sounds. (This is doubly true if Firefly his other new series doesn't take off)
> 
> So...
> 
> 1. Faith needs to die so there can be a new slayer. (1 easy episode, on either BVS or Angle, or just do it off camera, probably it will be wrapped up in the series finale.)*




Not necessarily. Since The Key-as-Dawn is very nearly a clone of Buffy (if she wasn't, Buffy's self-sacrifice from last season wouldn't have worked), it shouldn't be hard to come up with a plausible plot line that leads to Dawn going Slayer without Faith dying. Alternatively, there's the non-Slayer vampire slayer route, of which Angel's Charles Gunn is the canonical example, but I'm not sure how you'd get from the present Dawn to someone like that.


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## Crothian (May 9, 2002)

There's also the possibility of an animated series that redoes season one, but with Dawn in it.  It would be from Dawn's point of view, though.  That came ou in an article I read a few months ago or so.


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## River (May 9, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *There's also the possibility of an animated series that redoes season one, but with Dawn in it.  It would be from Dawn's point of view, though.  That came ou in an article I read a few months ago or so. *




There will be an animated series.  Buffy year one (No dawn I believe)

Thats ON TOP of everythineg else.

River


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## Staffan (May 9, 2002)

ghettognome said:
			
		

> *Who knows, maybe he will find Drucilla and they will go on like they used to, or was she killed the last time she came into Sunnydale?*



The last we saw of Dru was her and Darla getting torched by Angel. They both survived, Dru dropped Darla off with Lindsey, and then left.


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## DM_Matt (May 11, 2002)

A2Z said:
			
		

> *When Jonathan said: "Smash his orbs" I was certain they were going to make a joke about it. You know.
> 
> 
> On another note. Buffy was shot. We know she's back next week so I wonder how they're going to deal with that. Maybe she's immortal now? That'd be kind cool(weird?). I mean the girl has died and gone to heaven already. Maybe she didn't come back 'wrong' but 'right'.  *




Perhaps some help from Power Willow?


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## zilch (May 11, 2002)

I heard the animated series would be set during series three, and have Dawn in it. And Oz, Cordy, Angel, Faith, and Giles.
But no Tara, probs no Anya, no Riley, prob no Spike.
And it'd probably be for a younger audience. I'm expecting something like that disney show, Sabrina: the animated series. But hopefully it'll be better.


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## KnowTheToe (May 11, 2002)

Can I just say I hope Florin is right.  That is what this series is in desperate need of.  I personally am tired of all the dark brooding.  I preferred the tounge and cheeck humor and lightheartedness of the early seasons.


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