# How do people handle finding enemy spellbooks?



## harpy (Apr 16, 2010)

So the party kills off an enemy wizard and finds his spell book.  The PC wizard's eyes sparkle...

Now, from how the rules read, while it might take a bit of time, it sounds as if the entire contents of the enemy wizard's spellbook could just be copied into the PC wizard's spellbook.  Sure rolls need to be made, perhaps the wizard needs to wait another level to get more spellcraft ranks, etc.  But the end result is that it sounds as if the PC wizard can basically get a bunch of spells for free and then sell the enemy wizard's spellbook for half price.

How do people deal with this little nuance of party distribution of wealth and power?


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## billd91 (Apr 16, 2010)

Sounds about right to me. Keep in mind that putting spells in the spellbook isn't 100% free. It does cost some money in materials to do that.


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## Ryujin (Apr 16, 2010)

Yup, that's pretty much how I handle it. I handle how much they can get out of the spellbook through repetition of some of the spells that the party Wizard already has. If I don't want them to get a spellbook out of it I just make the enemy caster a Sorcerer. Hell, evil guys should usually be called Sorcerers anyway.


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## pawsplay (Apr 16, 2010)

Yup. Similarly to how NPCs always seem to have less magic items than PCs, I try to be conscious of how many spells I make available in this way.


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## Theo R Cwithin (Apr 16, 2010)

Yeah, it's pretty much just copy and sell, but there's a few things that can control handing out spells if the DM needs to.  Frex:

- All wizards have more or less the same spells; copying the spellboook only nets a few new spells for the PC.

- Make it a little more difficult by encoding the spells, so the PC has to expend more time, money or knowledge to get the spells.

- Split spell books into pieces: the one or two books the party finds are the wiz's travelling or working spellbooks.  The full one is very well hidden.

- Using another wiz's spells could have consequences: If you kill Framboise the Red and learn _fireball_ from his spellbook, his friends might recognize you as his murderer by the subtle yet distinctive raspberry aroma of your new _fireballs_.  Naturally, his friends will want revenge.  Or imagine the demon Prince Graxxahak's ire when he realizes it wasn't Lord Darkk who used Lord Darkk's gate spell to summon him.


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## Ambrus (Apr 16, 2010)

the_orc_within said:


> If you kill Framboise the Red and learn _fireball_ from his spellbook, his friends might recognize you as his murderer by the subtle yet distinctive raspberry aroma of your new _fireballs_.  Naturally, his friends will want revenge.



Oh, so these guys are attacking me because they happen to recognize the distinctive scent of their deceased friend's fireballs? Sorry, but if a DM pulled this kind of cheese in play I'd call shenanigans on him.


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## Theo R Cwithin (Apr 16, 2010)

Ambrus said:


> Oh, so these guys are attacking me because they happen to recognize the distinctive scent of their deceased friend's fireballs? Sorry, but if a DM pulled this kind of cheese in play I'd call shenanigans on him.





(1) Is it possible that it was something of an exaggerated joke example?  The _gate_ example was a more serious one.
(If you don't know, framboise = raspberry in French.)

(2) Some people actually _do_ enjoy that kind of fluff.  It's not unreasonable that different casters cast spells in slightly different ways.  It's also not unreasonable that all castings of a spell are exactly identical.  Depends on the game world.  More importantly, it depends on the group.  Obviously, such "shenanigans" have no place in your group.  So be it.

(3)  "YMMV".  That's generally implied in any post making suggestions.  Apologies if that wasn't clear.


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## Renfield (Apr 17, 2010)

There's also the fact that the PC's might not get the spell book when they fight the Wizard in question. Perhaps they encounter him in the castles War Room with a contingent of guards and in order to acquire his spell book they have to find his quarters or go to his tower where there might be guardians, wards, traps and other fun things that make them work even more to get a few spells.

Also, nothing says the Wizard in question has to have spells the PC Wizard doesn't have. Sure there should be one or two new spells but the rest could be standard fare or spells the PC already has if you're concerned about spell balance.

Just my two bits.


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## Drathir (Apr 17, 2010)

you could always spend a feat or two on that one that gives the wizard a number of spells he can prepare without his book. it lets him have access to 1 per int mod or something and if you play it right could easily cover the spells an enemy needs/can use in a n encouter thus eliminating his need to carry his spell book. o and about encoding it... it already is, if you read all the spellcasting stuff it says how the spellcraft checks are there because everyone gains access to their spells in a different way with different formulas and symnbols blah blah blah technical jargon blah. or have him catch fire... paper is highly flamable and the wizard spell book doesnt mention being fire retardent


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## frankthedm (Apr 17, 2010)

harpy said:


> How do people deal with this little nuance of party distribution of wealth and power?



Rule that cantrips have little to no resale value. Pathfinder seems fairly good about the book prices compared to 3.5

_

In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook (see Writing a New Spell into a Spellbook)

Materials and Costs: The cost for writing a new spell into a spellbook depends on the level of the spell, as noted on the following table. Note that a wizard does not have to pay these costs in time or gold for spells he gains for free at each new level.

Spell Level	Writing Cost
0 ~ 	5 gp
1 ~ 	10 gp
2 ~ 	40 gp
3 ~ 	90 gp
4 ~ 	160 gp
5 ~ 	250 gp
6 ~ 	360 gp
7 ~ 	490 gp
8 ~ 	640 gp
9 ~ 	810 gp

*Selling a Spellbook*
Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within._


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## TheNovaLord (Apr 17, 2010)

frankthedm[I said:
			
		

> ][/I]_.
> 
> Spell Level    Writing Cost
> 0 ~     5 gp
> ...




i struggle with this sentence in the book

1st lv spell: 

does it mean 5gp (inscribe)
OR
5gp (inscribe), plus half the cost (purchase) of a scroll of it in the first place?


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## frankthedm (Apr 17, 2010)

TheNovaLord said:


> i struggle with this sentence in the book
> 
> 1st lv spell:
> 
> ...



_This fee is usually equal to half the cost to write the spell into a spellbook_

So sell price total per spell is...

0th level	3.75 gp
1st level	7.5 gp
2nd level	30 gp
3rd level	67.5 gp
4th level	120 gp
5th level	187.5 gp
6th level	270 gp
7th level	367.5 gp
8th level	480 gp
9th level	607.5 gp

This is a VAST improvement over 3.5's 200gp _[sell 100gp]_ per spell level.


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## frankthedm (Apr 17, 2010)

Do note it looks like there is a profit to be made duplicating spell books and selling the duplicates.
_
Duplicating an existing spellbook uses the same procedure as replacing it, but the task is much easier. The time requirement and cost per page are halved.

Selling a Spellbook
Captured spellbooks can be sold for an amount equal to half the cost of purchasing and inscribing the spells within._


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## Jdvn1 (Apr 17, 2010)

"How come all these Wizards have such terrible handwriting?!"

They _are_ monsters.


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## Munktar (Apr 19, 2010)

Just make all spellbook have some strange effect so you players will not sell the extra's.

Most of the spellbooks NPC wizards have, are research books.

A research book contains the research on a spell and can have some additional strange and wonderfull effects. A wizards research into the Magic missle spell might contain the Magic Missle spell in 3 different versions. 

The magic missle spell, the standard spell
The Magic bottle spell, as the magic missle, but the missles look like broken beer bottles, nice for barbrawls
The Magic Missle spell, that has a small chang to bypass the shield spell if special material components are used. the ingredients of these components are written in the same spellbook, and might contain several pages with the recepy.

Further the shield spell will be in the book and more spell like it.

The book will also give you a +2 to learn magic misslle or shield related spell.

Now nobody will sell the book  

And of course just get you spellcraft up so much that you can learn from other book.

This is a great way to create pc wizards libraries....


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## cattoy (Apr 19, 2010)

I have a 4th level wizard with the minimum # of spells.

At some point, I will hopefully answer this question.


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## RaZorHamZteR (Apr 21, 2010)

In our group the other GM and I decided that captured spell-books are considered “owned” after having  the book for a year and a day, reading it, studying it for all that time... 

This way the spellcaster don't waste time and money on writing spells he will own in some time.

This will off course present with the problem of hiring butlers to carry all your books


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## Set (Apr 21, 2010)

At one point in a 2nd edition game, it got to the point where, when we encountered a Deck of Many Things, and my Wizard got a Wish, she wished for her spellbooks to be sorted, since she was carrying seven spellbooks, by that point.  She used the Wish to put all of the spells she regularly used into a single book, and then funneled the rest into secondary books, leaving the duplicates in the last three books, which she could sell off...

In a later game, a DM had us fighting a series of humanoids, being influenced by a cabal of wizards.  The spell books, infuriatingly, all had the same spells (with maybe one or two unique spells each), because the wizards were all students of the same master.

Clever DM, I'll get you for that!


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## megablake (Apr 27, 2010)

In the campaign I'm currently running, I went so far as to make a little notecard "spellbook" prop for a PC who had taken the spellbook of an evil wizard.  The spellbook is haunted by said evil wizard's ghost.


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## cattoy (Apr 28, 2010)

Set said:


> In a later game, a DM had us fighting a series of humanoids, being influenced by a cabal of wizards.  The spell books, infuriatingly, all had the same spells (with maybe one or two unique spells each), because the wizards were all students of the same master.
> 
> Clever DM, I'll get you for that!




Even so, don't each of the nearly identical spellbooks all have a decent resale value? (it might take a little legwork to sell them in different cities, but still...)


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## Munktar (Apr 28, 2010)

I still think it is strange to sell a spellbook, especially if you are a wizard. Wizards are notorius for acquiring enemies ane nemesis. That means that when you sell a book to someone you dont know, or do know, important information about you spell arsenal will be available to your enemies, and they might find a weakness that they can exploit. And are these few gold pieces worth such a big risk...

Also enemy spellbook might contain hidden secrets that you do not yet have enough power for to unravel... There can be more then 1 secret page in a book.


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## Scott DeWar (Apr 28, 2010)

Munktar said:


> Also enemy spellbook might contain hidden secrets that you do not yet have enough power for to unravel... There can be more then 1 secret page in a book.




hmmmm.... secret page. good idea


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## Samurai (May 2, 2010)

The characters in my game just killed a man-eating hill giantess and found her spellbook... it is written in Giant, and the pages are tanned human skin, not paper!  Needless to say, the resale value might be hurt by these facts, assuming they can find anyone willing to buy it!


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## Sigurd (May 3, 2010)

Samurai said:


> The characters in my game just killed a man-eating hill giantess and found her spellbook... it is written in Giant, and the pages are tanned human skin, not paper!  Needless to say, the resale value might be hurt by these facts, assuming they can find anyone willing to buy it!




Are you kidding? They won't have to work hard to convince their buyer that its different and might have something very very strange\powerful. Assuming they can lug the thing around and don't have to bury the human skin, a lot of collectors would want such a book.

sigurd


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## Samurai (May 3, 2010)

Sigurd said:


> Are you kidding? They won't have to work hard to convince their buyer that its different and might have something very very strangepowerful. Assuming they can lug the thing around and don't have to bury the human skin, a lot of collectors would want such a book.
> 
> sigurd




Any buyer is going to want to read the book, or else how can they a) tell it's a spellbook instead of insane ramblings, and b) what value it has according to the levels of the spells within it.  Would you pay a year's wages for a book the seller assures you contains magic spells, but that you were unable to read, despite being a wizard?  And also take his word for what spells of what levels are within it?  Heck no!  So I'd say right off the bat that a buyer would pay only a very small fraction of the real value if he can't read it himself.  

Second, any Wizard caught with a book of human skin is going to raise some eyebrows, IMO.  There is already a lot of suspicion among commoners about magic and what wizards dabble in, and a book like that would confirm all their worst suspicions.  That night the torches and pitchforks would come out...


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## Sigurd (May 4, 2010)

Samurai said:


> Any buyer is going to want to read the book, or else how can they a) tell it's a spellbook instead of insane ramblings, and b) what value it has according to the levels of the spells within it.  Would you pay a year's wages for a book the seller assures you contains magic spells, but that you were unable to read, despite being a wizard?  And also take his word for what spells of what levels are within it?  Heck no!  So I'd say right off the bat that a buyer would pay only a very small fraction of the real value if he can't read it himself.




That's no different from the most vanilla spell book out there. Chances are a discerning purchaser with money to spend will have seen dozens of standard books. Even a standard book though, is going to have to prove its a functioning spellbook.




Samurai said:


> Second, any Wizard caught with a book of human skin is going to raise some eyebrows, IMO.  There is already a lot of suspicion among commoners about magic and what wizards dabble in, and a book like that would confirm all their worst suspicions.  That night the torches and pitchforks would come out...




If you say so. I think a huge number of wizards will look the other way for an object of power and rarity. After all there's a whole school of wizards devoted to necromancy and using grizzly bits of of people for magic. They won't bat an eye at a human skin so long as its not their own. Where's your best chance of finding unique and powerful magic? Of course it depends on whats in the book, but potentially this giantess might have had access to powerful magic and advisers. She wouldn't have freely given this information in life - here's a chance to take it after her death.

Nobody is going to make magic items too public anyway - thats an invitation to theft or assault. Think of the dark magic shop in harry potter. It's gruesome but there are customers for it.


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## Michael Silverbane (May 4, 2010)

Speaking of dark magic...  If your players are anything like mine, they end up with all sorts of unsavory magic items during the course of their adventures, anyway.  After wiping out a temple to Orcus, the group was running around with a sack full of +2 unholy maces.

I ended up allowing them to learn of a way to consecrate the weapons, so that they became holy maces, instead of unholy ones, but they were planning to try to foist them off on some githyanki that they had a not entirely hostile run-in with previously, otherwise.

What do you (players) do with evil magic items that you come across?

How do you (DMs) deal with players who want to get rid of (or make use of) evil magic items in the games that you run?


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## Arnwolf666 (Feb 26, 2019)

Magic marts. I will never understand this generation lol


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## ccs (Feb 26, 2019)

Arnwolf666 said:


> Magic marts. I will never understand this generation lol




Another %^* necromancer.

You do realize in order to make a single inane comment you dug up a thread that was 8 years dead, right?


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## Arnwolf666 (Feb 26, 2019)

It was on the first page of forum for me lol


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## Lanefan (Feb 27, 2019)

If a spam post went in the thread and then got deleted it'd still bump the thread up to the front page - can't blame anyone (well, except the spammer) for that.


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## S'mon (Feb 28, 2019)

I may say the pc cannot comprehend parts of the book. But by default they can acquire all the spells they can cast.


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