# Does EN World need a change of focus?



## EricNoah (Sep 4, 2004)

EN World does a lot of things: report news, share press releases, house reviews, host message boards for fans, hosts message boards for publishers, gathers fan-created materials, sells advertising, lots of other stuff.  Should some of those things disappear?  Should new things be added?  What should EN World's focus be?  What should its mission be?


----------



## alsih2o (Sep 4, 2004)

I think ENWorld needs somehting harder to get- Realization of what it is for.

 This needs to come not from above, but form the base. It is a fan site. Everyhting you listed is either a service for fans or somethign that makes this service possible. I think more folks need to step up and realize the whole service end.

 The FREE service end. Ask not what ENWorld can do for you (we already know) ask what you can do for ENWorld. (my apologies to JFK)


----------



## WanderingMonster (Sep 4, 2004)

I guess I can only answer this by saying what I use it for:  Message boards (community), and product reviews.

 The news aspect, I think, is a holder-over from the original  site.   News these days are not "scoops" but links to press-releases  and features hosted on  publisher sites. 

 If there must be a refocusing, I think "community support" should be the top part of the mission statement.  Does ENWorld have a Mission Statement?  Maybe that would help?  If we knew what Morrus thought his mission was—what his goals are for the site—maybe we could help out with suggestions.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 4, 2004)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> I think ENWorld needs somehting harder to get- Realization of what it is for.
> 
> This needs to come not from above, but form the base. It is a fan site. Everyhting you listed is either a service for fans or somethign that makes this service possible. I think more folks need to step up and realize the whole service end.
> 
> The FREE service end. Ask not what ENWorld can do for you (we already know) ask what you can do for ENWorld. (my apologies to JFK)



 I think that's got it nailed right there.


----------



## Crothian (Sep 4, 2004)

It needs to focus on the fans.  And the fnas need to be willing to support it.  If we have the fans, everything will fall in line.


----------



## DaveMage (Sep 4, 2004)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> What should its mission be?




I think it should become a site dedicated to unofficial 4E rumors...


----------



## alsih2o (Sep 4, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> It needs to focus on the fans.  And the fnas need to be willing to support it.  If we have the fans, everything will fall in line.




 I tend to disagree, but only in a way. 

 I think ENWorld is and should be a reflection of its users. Morrus, P-kitty, Eric, Henry, and all the others who "direct" the site will always be a direct reflection of the users.

 If the mods seem too harsh we can almost always consider it a reflection of user activity. If there aren't enough reviews we can say the same. Too many publishers, too much non-d20, too much off-topic? All the fans. 

 Russ has broad controls over the board but has been smart enough to (mainain a tradition of?) allow the user control too. Same with the forum breakdown, users go here and there or don't and it determines what becomes important.

 I rarely read the news page or the reviews. I come for creative input (and output), art, teh funney, and comraderie. I get it all in spades. Othersc ome here for the news and reviews almost exclusively. Consequently they probably won't even see and therefore cannot react to a nice query like this.

 As the users shift focus the board management is forced to shift focus. At least to some extent. This is why I believe vagueness and generality SHOULD be the rule of the day.

 If a mission statement is created or goals are stated publicly there will be pressure to make the site live up to them, instead of living up to how it is used.

 This requires active, fluid response from the directors. I think we have seen this over and over again, not always, but darned near always. We had too many off-topic posts and no interest in an off-topic forum. Now there is one, and experiment that thrived. Lots of PDFs and some hard work by a certain prolific madman and we now have a staff reviewer for electronic products. The creature catalog, the art gallery, newshounds. All the same.

 When we discusse this years ENnies (At least my end of it) Russ stressed consistency. No changes, keep the physical award the same for recognition. And I agreed. Now I see lots of people calling for a change to the award. And I think it will happen.

 A steady eye on the group driven eveolution, which is dependant on polite user contribution  and participation, is the correct response. Goals and statements are not. This is more difficult and requires a more constant effort but from what I have seen in my time as a user I have faith.


----------



## iwarrior-poet (Sep 4, 2004)

I visit EN World everyday, largely for news on d20 and related products. I tend not to use the boards too much, but Morrus' rant made me take a peek. I have a few suggestions for ENWorld:
1. Help shape the d20 present and future by having more editorials closer to or on the front page. (Although future editorials might not want to be as... er..._forceful_ as Morrus' one today.
2. Welcome efforts to bring in news scoops, reading paraphrased press releases with links to publisher sites is helpful, but I could just go to the sites of origin and get the entire version.
3. (and this is more of a question) As a regular user, I feel obliged to help EN World keep moving along financially. Is EN World registered as a non-profit in the U.S.? It would be a lot easier for me to contribute to EN World if I could get a tax break out of it.


----------



## francisca (Sep 4, 2004)

Well, I came here for news and the messageboards, and found community.

I think the site needs to stay fan oriented as well.  I'd like to see it be the central clearing house for all things d20, where publishers and fans can rub elbows, share ideas, and find resources to increase enjoyment of the games we play.

I think the Ennies have become a liability.  I think they should be spun off elsewhere, pehaps become the GenCon awards.  Perhaps Gama, RPG.net, ENWorld, and a few other sites could hold their own elections and send 1-2 delegates each, who would then provide judging in the same manner that it si now, with the fans voting on a website.  (I have not followed the Ennies thread at all, sorry...).

Regardless, the rift caused by the Ennies is not worth it to me.  If it means ENWorld coming back to it's roots, I say kiss the Ennies goodbye.

Something else I'd like to see:

You know those Co-Op Dungeons?  I'd like see a whole range of community developed accessories like them developed and sold for $2 each or 6/$10, with all of the money going striaght back into supporting the site.

well, there is my 2 cent worth, such as it is.


----------



## 2WS-Steve (Sep 4, 2004)

I use every aspect of this site: check the forums regularly, read reviews when I'm on the fence about a product or hearing good things about a book I hadn't considered before, and check in daily around midnight to see the news postings--news is fun for keeping me informed about what's coming out and other activities around the net.

So I can't think of anything I'd change other than replacing the server with a super-Cray so there'd only be a nanosecond gap between when I click on a link and it comes up...


----------



## EricNoah (Sep 4, 2004)

Gotta say the comments about the ENnies and their value vs. their cost are really speaking to me right now.  

There was always the potential for them to create some conflict, because there's competition to get nominated plus people have different ideas about what they ultimately are for (are they for the fans so they can see an entertaining contest or hear about products they might have missed?  are they for the publishers, to help us as a community say "well done"? are they an incentive to put out a great product?  are they a marketing tool for EN World and/or the publishers?  are they a way for EN World to have some sway with the publishers and get them to participate in our community?) and will try to sway the shape of the awards to best fit their needs.  And some will take not getting nominated as some kind of backhanded insult.


----------



## Olgar Shiverstone (Sep 4, 2004)

I come to EN World every day that I sit behind a computer, to (1) check the news page so I don't have to visit a hundred sites to see what's going on, and (2) visit with the community through the message boards.  I really don't use the other features, including the reviews -- there's enough product information floating through the boards that I don't find specific reviews necessary.

As to the ENnies, I always thought they were a great way of saying "Atta Boy!" to writers/artists/publishers who have done a good job.  Anything beyond that is someone's own interpretation -- I like that the fans get a say, though.  At ENWorld, it's always felt like the little guy has a voice.


----------



## Trainz (Sep 5, 2004)

francisca said:
			
		

> Regardless, the rift caused by the Ennies is not worth it to me. If it means ENWorld coming back to it's roots, I say kiss the Ennies goodbye.



 I wholeheartedly agree.



> Something else I'd like to see:
> You know those Co-Op Dungeons? I'd like see a whole range of community developed accessories like them developed and sold for $2 each or 6/$10, with all of the money going striaght back into supporting the site.



 Being the project leader of Cooperative Dungeons, I must warn you about that idea. It is great in concept to use them for such a purpose, but they actually need the editing and administrative responsibilities of full-fledged publishing companies. Some have said that these adventures are even better (in substance and format) than some of what you can buy (PDF or print).

 My point is, they take a lot of effort. As you can see, we have yet to deliver the next one (CD3) because of some editing problems. It's one thing to create one, it's another thing altogether to make bundles of them, and still expect quality.

 Hell, I even had to deal with something akin (but to a much smaller degree) to what Morrus is dealing with right now with CD's ! And, again, all of this for no profit.

 I would consider such a venture only with a _carte blanche _and tight reigns, which would actually hinder the "communal" feel of it all.

 That said, ENworld publishing does create profitable products, many of which are made by ENworlders, and a portion of that money goes back to pay for ENworld's expanses, so maybe that venue is already tapped.

 My two coppers...

 Anyways, I also feel that if the Ennies are turning the whole thing ugly, maybe one should stop feeding the mouth that bites back. The Ennies are mostly a form of "payback" to the publishers, so, hell, if they don't want the gift, let's not give it to them.


----------



## Morrus (Sep 5, 2004)

Do we need a change in focus?  Yeah, I guess we do.

The rant has made me feel much better; letting off steam does a world of good.  I'm not totally sure what to change or how to do it, though.  I suppose it comes back to that mission statement concept  - right now, I feel it is a press/news/media outlet, and I don't think that's what the site should be about.

Unofficial 4E rumours - now that's what it should be about!  But we'll have to wait a while for that!


----------



## Olive (Sep 5, 2004)

Morrus said:
			
		

> The rant has made me feel much better; letting off steam does a world of good.




Good. So does that mean that we shouldn't be wondering about who's goign to take over from you like you did from Eric?


----------



## DragonLancer (Sep 5, 2004)

I come to the site for two real reasons.

1. News on forthcoming D20/D&D products that I may not hear of otherwise.

and

2. To discuss D&D and roleplaying with fellow gamers.

My advice for what its worth, keep the site/forums as they are. I'm not behind the driving seat but I don't think theres a need to change anything.


----------



## 2WS-Steve (Sep 5, 2004)

Morrus said:
			
		

> Do we need a change in focus?  Yeah, I guess we do.
> 
> The rant has made me feel much better; letting off steam does a world of good.  I'm not totally sure what to change or how to do it, though.  I suppose it comes back to that mission statement concept  - right now, I feel it is a press/news/media outlet, and I don't think that's what the site should be about.




Morrus, I want to point out that I'm very sympathetic to your concerns about feeling like a press release outlet (as I mention in The Big Thread , near the middle at post 286).

However, as a fan and someone who happily owns far more d20 books than I'll ever need or use, I really value the press releases and info on upcoming products. I grab bits and pieces from all over the place and include them in my campaigns and I know my players like them. So it's great to have a spot where I can come and find out what's interesting out there--or find out that something I would have otherwise dismissed is actually pretty interesting.


----------



## DragonLancer (Sep 5, 2004)

2WS-Steve said:
			
		

> Morrus, I want to point out that I'm very sympathetic to your concerns about feeling like a press release outlet




This site is much much more than a mere press release outlet. 

The forums on this site are a damn good place to come and discuss roleplaying games and the hobby in general. Most publisher forums are not so dedicated.

Though I don't rely on others opinions, I do come here to check out the reviews on something that I am really considering buying. A lot of the visitors to the site do go through them.

At the end of the day, personal aside, ENW is the best gaming centre on the net. You should be proud of what you have here.


----------



## Belen (Sep 5, 2004)

I like ENWorld the way it is.

I come her for news, reviews, and community forums.  I love talking with you all and I would sorely miss the news function.

If anything, I advocate a change to a gaming society.  I know that this can be a tired concept coming from me, but I think ENWorld perfectly fills the role of international society with tons of room to expand.

It should be a sire for the fans, but also an arena for fan-publisher relations and a force to help promote, grow and sustain the hobby we all love.  The hobby to to important to leave to the market and WOTC alone.


----------



## hong (Sep 5, 2004)

There were never any fights when we were all talking about me.

Everyone, please talk about me!


----------



## Berandor (Sep 5, 2004)

I think the idea that Hong should become a scoop site for 4E, though probably in jest, bears some truth to it. What I would do is, don't let go off the news; it's part of the reason Hong is so popular. However, you might want to change your focus so that you don't post press releases on Hong's front page anymore.

Keep to scoops, previews, et al. Include tidbits found on the net regarding upcoming products.

Don't post "Hordes of the Fey is off to the printer", but post "according to Castlekeep's site Hordes of the Fey's new races will include one that can shoot love arrows".

Make Hong a rumor-mill again.

What's also important is that Morrus (especially, but also other people who "work" on Hong, moderators, tech staff, etc.) keep a public profile, i.e. post to the boards. I don't think Morrus is a very prolific poster on Hong, but maybe I'm just always missing his posts. That would re-instill or further the community aspect of the site. We'd feel at home because we know the owner, and we're not some of those people who are at a party simply because the front door is open 

Also, by refocusing on scoops et al, I think you'd force publishers to post more often on Hong's boards, because they'd need to solicit public opinion and publicity itself without resorting to press releases. And getting to know the publishers is great, too. Heck, I know I've bought product simply because I knew the guy who wrote it from the boards and I wanted to give him a chance to convince me, a product I wouldn't have bought otherwise.

I think that would help getting Hong back on track.


----------



## Imhotepthewise (Sep 5, 2004)

I come here for the tomfoolery...

Really, this site is where I spend most of my precious time I have to spare on the internet.  The feature to download threads has been a godsend, for instance.  I consider the people posting here to be the mastercrafters of rpgers.   You teach me something new most every time I visit.

The thing that brings us all together here is our love of rpgs and DnD in particular.  We would all miss it if it was gone.

As long as ENWorld's focus is on rpgs and DnD, it is on the right track.


----------



## Gulla (Sep 5, 2004)

I was pointed here by a friend far back when Eric ran it, and is still using the site to get the news and the occational review. But after having been here for a while I started frequenting (or more precisely reading) the messageboards, and I really use a bit too much time here. 

I was utterly confused by the rant yesterday, but now seem to have a (weak) understanding of the subject/problems. 

For me the ENnies is not worth the problems they seem to be creating. And I wholeheartedly think Berandor's idea of 'scoopifying' the newspage is brilliant. It is ok as it is, but more scoop-style (back to the roots?) would improve it.

But all in all this is the single site I use moste time on, simply because there is so much readworthy material here.

Håkon Gaut


----------



## BradfordFerguson (Sep 5, 2004)

Of course, it's up to the Powers That Be for what EN World's focus is, though it is apparent from the Morrus Rant forum thread that people come here for news and reviews.

Why do people come here for news?  It's a central repository.
Who do people come here for D&D/d20 reviews?  It has the most d20 reviews.

First advice: Make things simpler on the front page.  Too many options can be overwhelming for people who aren't sure what they are looking for or don't know where to find it.  This has been corrected in the past and needs to be reeled in again.
Second advice: Get rid of the ENWorld RPG.  It's a great idea, but gets away from your focus and is a drain on bandwidth.

-----
Bradford Ferguson
D20 Filtered


----------



## Angcuru (Sep 5, 2004)

I used to come here primarily for discussion about D&D and RPGs in particular, but since college and work don't leave much game time, that has slackened off a bit.  I don't game as much as I'd like to.  Heck, I hardly game at all.  It's been almost a year since I bought a Rulebook or anything like that.  So now I come here primarily for the community.  The arguments, the jest, the general silliness and hilarity.  And since Morrus started up the NWN ENWorld thing, I feel like now I can get some game time with the community, so it's kind of gone full circle for me.  I like it just the way it is, but then again, I don't use the majority of the features on the site, just the messageboards.  As long as they stay in full swing, I'm cool with it.    'Cause for me, ENWorld is about the _community_.


----------



## BryonD (Sep 5, 2004)

Morrus said:
			
		

> I suppose it comes back to that mission statement concept  - right now, I feel it is a press/news/media outlet, and I don't think that's what the site should be about.




But that is where it started.

I really don't believe that this site would be what it is today without having been that.  It may very well have more than enough critical mass to maintain itself now.  But it got to that point becaase this was THE PLACE to come for information.  People came for that and stayed because they found other people looking for the same thing.

I am certain the publisher's are taking you for granted.  But I think that you are also taking them for granted.  You are THE MORRUS of THE ENWORLD.  And the fact that the publishers acknowledged this site as THE PLACE to share info is what makes that true.  Granted, that may not be as true now as it was in the past, but it still is true.

None of that is to say that you owe them or anyone else a single thing.  You absolutely do not.  But if you want ENWorld to keep being ENWorld you or someone else is just going to have to keep paying for tomorrow today in currency of time and headache.  It isn't debt, it is just reality.

If you are sick of that, then by all means, dump it.  But look into your options.  Eric was awesome, but he got tired of it and walked away. And GOOD FOR HIM!!!!!  You stepped in and took over and you were awesome.  If you are tired, maybe someone else can take the reigns for a little while, at least.

Apologizes is any of that sounds preachy.  I'm not trying to enlighten you or anything stupid like that.  I hope I'm offering some constructive thoughts.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 5, 2004)

Something tell me I should keep my mouth shut but...  

EN.World is a community, it is the place where gamers, publishers, insiders, designers, and a lot of others come because it is civilization.  Year after year I have heard the stories of how wonderful the site is, I have read the _thank yous_ in post for help and information, the jokes we have ribbed each other with, I have seen things turn bad too, threads closed and posters dislike other posters.  BUT IT DID NOT MATTER BECAUSE WE WERE A COMMUNITY AND WE WERE FRIENDS.  Something has been changing over the last year, I can't put my finger on it, I have felt it, I even discussed it at GENCON with a few.  

Change the focus of EN.World?  Maybe that is the problem, maybe the focus has already changed and what it once was is not longer that of what it was. 

I think we forget that EN.World belongs to Morrus, that there is a cost in time and money, that the mods do their job for no other reason than love of the site.  We have taken the day-to-day operations for granted, we have come to demand the site to be here for us, at our beck and call.  We are the problem and I think all of us need to look to ourselves and what the site means and our focus to it, for the community is the sum of its parts.


----------



## BSF (Sep 5, 2004)

I come here for community now.  I like these people.  

One thing I have noticed less of is a buzz surrounding new products.  This is partially a result of the publishers hosting their own forums, their own communities.  How about changing the News to the Buzz and start encouraging people to post rumors and speculation as oppossed to hard facts?  

I'm only halfway joking.  I would be serious if I had any ideas on how to actually pull it off.


----------



## JeffB (Sep 5, 2004)

BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> One thing I have noticed less of is a buzz surrounding new products.  This is partially a result of the publishers hosting their own forums, their own communities.




And also because there are so darn many products now, and D20 companies, that I suspect most people really don't care that much anymore..at least to the degree we used to, even as far WOTC products go. There was the buzz about Eberron, but it paled in comparison to the buzz about The FRCS, or MotP, or BoVD. No excitement 'cos it's basically the S.O.S.The D20 Glut has hit, and unlike the first 2 years of 3E/D20, people are not clamoring to buy every book they can get their hands on....because of finances (so many books), and like Russ said in his rant, we have all the products we will ever need. When you have 50 companies producing the same types of books, it gets old real quick.


----------



## Zudrak (Sep 6, 2004)

A few thoughts on this whole ordeal.

1) I used to come for the Creature Catalog, mostly, and to check in on new products. I still do the latter. The Tome of Horrors book ended my most pressing need at the time 3E came out. However, I have recently become a little more involved in posting and reading posts on the message boards because the gamers -- as always -- offer some of the best ideas for campaigns, house rules, storylines, and other "fleshing out" suggestions -- in addition to both Dungeon and Dragon magazines. EN World is STILL my first stop of any internet session.

2) Morrus has every right to lash out here, IMO. I sent him an email supporting his decision. The money-chasing that the industry as a whole has become involved in has sapped this gamer's desire to buy much new product. When Hasbro(ken) bought WotC, I feared the repercussions for the RPG industry. Instead of companies that are friendly to the gamers, they appear to be designating their customers not as friends, but rather as faces on dollar bills. It's disturbingly similar to how a used car salesman treats you -- polite, maybe, but leaving you with a "greasy" feeling.

3) 
Quote:
Originally Posted by JeffB
No excitement 'cos it's basically the S.O.S. The D20 Glut has hit, and unlike the first 2 years of 3E/D20, people are not clamoring to buy every book they can get their hands on....because of finances (so many books), and like Russ said in his rant, we have all the products we will ever need. When you have 50 companies producing the same types of books, it gets old real quick.

I agree 100% here.

My fear of Dragon magazine's recent change -- and of the bean-counters in the d20 industry at large -- is that we'll be so flooded with the same-old same-old of feats, prestige classes, and spells that Dragon will sound like a clanging gong every time an issue comes out. It will get old, IMO. The 3E compilation Book of Feats by Mongoose -- now more than a year old -- shows how exhaustive a list d20 feats has grown into. It's a tangle that I don't want to see magnified.

I have purchased Troll Lord Games' Gygax-series books recently that have helped me immensely, because they are mostly fluff and not crunch. I have enough crunch from WotC books and Dragon magazine that I'll never have to worry about the "Soggies" from the Cap'n Crunch commercials ever ruining my cereal (sorry for the obscure reference there). I want fluff.  Lots of it.  My ten years away from the game stunted my imagination. I want sparks to help spur me along. Gary Gygax's books, Living Fantasy, World Builder, and Insidiae, have helped me greatly. Those are the books that should be coming out now in greater quantity: books that propel the mind, causing you to think new ideas in your campaign and in your game. This is where I celebrate Dungeon's new format. The Monte Cook and Campaign Workbook articles rock. Both in-game and out-of-game topics are covered, but they all work towards making a better game.

I guess my points are: 
+I like EN World the way it is.  Go Morrus & Co. Go!
+I don't like WotC the way it is anymore.
+I detest Hasbro(ken) and its business theory, beliefs, and practices.
+I will skip 4E, like 2E, if it is released half-heartedly and/or within the next 5 years.
+More fluff. I want more fluff.


----------



## diaglo (Sep 7, 2004)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> The FREE service end. Ask not what ENWorld can do for you (we already know) ask what you can do for ENWorld. (my apologies to JFK)





 Ich bin ein ENWurlder


----------



## Sketchpad (Sep 7, 2004)

Personally, I don't think EN World really needs a change of focus ... rather that d20 as a whole does.  D&D 3e brought me back to D&D after several years of running a few other systems (which I also still run).  While I agree that the OGL is a good thing, I think that the glut in the market isn't ... sure, you can choose what you want and don't want, but, in the long run, it gets tiring real fast.  
If you're planning on changing EN World's focus, I have a few suggestions:
1- Make it more campaign oriented.  Perhaps some fan-content on new campaigns would be good?
2- I like the news page myself ... I don't always keep track of the myrid of companies that do d20 for the above reasons.  So I'd like to see it continue.

As for the rant you did Morrus, personally, I think the d20 companies owe both you and Eric more money and respect than you asked for, as this has easily become the one-stop shop for d20 in all of its forms.


----------



## Warden (Sep 7, 2004)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> Gotta say the comments about the ENnies and their value vs. their cost are really speaking to me right now.
> 
> There was always the potential for them to create some conflict, because there's competition to get nominated plus people have different ideas about what they ultimately are for (are they for the fans so they can see an entertaining contest or hear about products they might have missed?  are they for the publishers, to help us as a community say "well done"? are they an incentive to put out a great product?  are they a marketing tool for EN World and/or the publishers?  are they a way for EN World to have some sway with the publishers and get them to participate in our community?) and will try to sway the shape of the awards to best fit their needs.  And some will take not getting nominated as some kind of backhanded insult.




I hear you on that one.  A while back, I thought that the PDF industry perhaps needed its own awards recognition as a shot in the arm... a chance for us to look at ourselves and hand out awards to those who did the best, or something along those lines.  But the input that was coming in was crazy and all across the board until it became obvious that no one wanted the same thing.  It seemed to come down to "How can we set this up so that I can win?"  Not good.

I think that the site works very well and comes across as a massive and open fan site, so perhaps it's because it doesn't feel as fun as a fan site for those involved with putting it together on a daily basis.  I check the news page daily, along with the Publishing threads for obvious reasons, but the side column with the latest thread postings and topics has really drawn my attention lately -- that's how I found this discussion, so it works like a charm.  Maybe don't worry about the content so much as the focus: who do you want to appeal to do and concentrate your efforts on pleasing?  If the fans are happy, then you should be happy.  If someone isn't, they can stop coming here.


----------



## Umbran (Sep 8, 2004)

I don't think that EN World needs a change of focus, mostly because I think it's focus changes organically with changes in the interestsof the bunch of us.  Morrus isn't dumb, and he watches, and sees what we talk about, and gets feedback, and occasionally makes changes and stirs the pot to create a bit of freshness that keeps things lively.  All good, there.

I think sometimes individual people need to check out their own focus.  Morrus and the admins and mods all need to occasionally do a self-check and make sure they are stil doing all the work for the right reasons.  The posters and readers need to do a self-check to make sure they're behaving themselves, and discussing constructively.  The publishers need to check and make sure that they remember who and what they are working for.  And so on.

It seems to me that things here have always worked best when the focus was on new ideas, community, and how really cool and fun the games can be when done well.  When the focus of individual shifts away from the fannish roots of _everyone_ involved, things become less nice.

Seems to me that some of the publishers may have forgotten some of that.  They'd be better off if they tuned into it again.


----------



## William Ronald (Sep 8, 2004)

I am pretty happy with EN World as it is, but I believe its true role is as a fansite.  I am here for the community more than the news.  This community has made my life as a gamer richer.  

As for the Ennies, I think the question has to be asked whether they are more trouble than they are worth.  I think the suggestion of having the best x of winter 2004 is a bit strange, as I can think of no other annual award that works in that manner.  So, I think reviewing the future of the Ennies is an important idea.

I think we do have to be a little more considerate of each other, but there is only so much the moderators can do to encourage this. Umbran's call for self-reflection is important, and this may help to solve some problems.  Also, more of us can step forward and support the site in different ways -- including community supporter accounts.  Possibly we can have a few "pledge drives" each year, with any publisher willing to do so offering something to people during the pledge drives.  

As for E.N. Publishing, I do not see it as greatly changing the nature of this site.  In the thread in General Discussion, I likened it to a gift shop at a house of worship.  At least one publisher admitted that if he was in Morrus' position, he would be promoting E.N. Publishing more heavily.

Above all, I think we need to keep the lines of communication open.  I have learned about products and ideas here that I might not have encountered without EN World.  I have made friends because of this site.  So, to everyone who keeps this place together.....

THANK YOU!!!


----------



## dren (Sep 8, 2004)

ENWorld is a neat little corner of the web. I am abundantly happy with the features as they now stand, and will, for the foreseeable future anyway, keep coming back to this place for my d20 needs almost exclusively.

But I don't want a change of focus. Rather than adding new stuff, add value to what we already have. Here are the things I want: 
No more slow service. 
No more unexpected shut downs. 
No more flame wars about useless idiotic pointless drivle.
No more politics. 

Give me those things and your traffic site will increase and people will stay longer.


----------



## Piratecat (Sep 8, 2004)

We have virtually no politics now, and not too many flame wars. We're on our way.


----------



## Ashy (Sep 8, 2004)

Utopia - HERE WE COME!


----------



## der_kluge (Sep 10, 2004)

More naked women.
More threads on politics and religion.

Ok, maybe not.  But, what I would like to see is more of an attempt at capturing a lot of the creative genius that is here.  

For an example, see here:
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=100116&page=1&pp=20

All those people that used to go to WoTC's site for maps, can come here.  Lord knows we've got lots of maps posted in the gallery thread, but they are buried in threads.  

Let's set up formal galleries and ease by which people can post maps, modules, npcs, magic items, rule variants, etc.  And then people can download all that stuff, and it will never get lost in the mire of the messages.


----------



## Afrodyte (Sep 14, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> It seems to me that things here have always worked best when the focus was on new ideas, community, and how really cool and fun the games can be when done well.  When the focus of individual shifts away from the fannish roots of _everyone_ involved, things become less nice.




I don't know if it's my place to speak, being that I'm a lowly registered user, but this speaks to the heart of my reluctance to be more involved with EN World.  I post my ideas on the House Rules forum every now and then, and I occasionally see something in a thread that I feel I _have_ to respond to, but most of the time I sit and watch and hope for some of the ideas you mention here (new ideas, community, how fun D20/D&D can be) to come more to the fore.

I probably shouldn't say this, but nowadays I wonder if I come to EN World because I really enjoy it and love it as some do, or simply because it's an alternative to the WotC site.  It's often very hard for me to take a lot of the things in online communities seriously, mostly because it seems that no one is interested in what I have to say, and it gets tiresome to talk to nobody.  Therefore, I tend to observe more than I speak, and I tend to speak only when asked for my input.  In the rare event that I initiate something, it's only when I think that what I have to say has not been said too many times before.  

That said, I don't really come to EN World for the comraderie.  I'm grateful when I find it, but I don't expect it, nor do I deliberately search for it.  My primary purpose here and in the chats is to share ideas and experiences with D&D and D20 systems and settings.  As a result, the most I do here is read and post to the General RPG Discussion and House Rules forums.  With this financial drought that I'm in, the exchange of ideas of this sort becomes more and more integral to my ability to keep doing new things with D20, but it seems that this level of interest or availability is not enough.  There seems to be a lot of pressure and guilt-tripping to make me feel like I have to do something (usually donating money) to prove my worth to be among the community.  Recently, there's also been a lot of talk about how ungrateful "we" are and not a lot of people asking what EN World means to the people who come here and what they would like to see done or what they would like to do to support EN World.  To me, it gives the impression that there is a core group of people upon within whom the entire EN World community is embodied, and the rest are extraneous and not really necessary.

As for my ideas on how to give EN World more focus or to make it work more cohesively, I have some half-formed ideas floating around in my head, and most of them center around solidifying what it means to be a part of the EN World community and how you define supporting that community.


----------



## Umbran (Sep 14, 2004)

Afrodyte said:
			
		

> I don't know if it's my place to speak, being that I'm a lowly registered user...




Well, first off, there's no such thing as a "lowly registered user".  The only thing that separates a registered user from a community supporter is a bit of spending cash.  In about a month, I'm getting married.  That means I'm short of cash and when my membership runs out in October I'm not terribly likely to have the bucks to spare to renew it.  Then, I'll be just like you.  



> It's often very hard for me to take a lot of the things in online communities seriously, mostly because it seems that no one is interested in what I have to say, and it gets tiresome to talk to nobody.




Well, as far as I can tell, that's how most people start out.  I felt the same way when I started posting.  I had posting habits similar to those you describe.  At some undefineable point, the feeling that I was talking to nobody dissolved away.

We must remember that while this place is a community, it is a largish one.  When I talk about "community" here, I don't mean the feeling that I'm known by each and every member, or that I know everyone who posts, or even a large fraction of them.

"Community" in a fannish sense is something a touch more distant than that.  It's a knowledge that we are all here for basically the same reason, and that we have a few things in common with the other folks here, and that we are willing to work together in some siimple ways to help each other enjoy ourselves a little bit.  



> That said, I don't really come to EN World for the comraderie.  I'm grateful when I find it, but I don't expect it, nor do I deliberately search for it.




Honestly, nor do I.  But it is the camraderie that makes the place function.  I don't come here for it, but if it weren't here, I would not return.  Without comraderie, the place would degenerate into every other flame-filled online forum, and it would become nigh useless.



> There seems to be a lot of pressure and guilt-tripping to make me feel like I have to do something (usually donating money) to prove my worth to be among the community.




For a very, very long time I was not a community supporter, and I did not feel such pressure.  I am not sure where your feeling is comeing from.



> Recently, there's also been a lot of talk about how ungrateful "we" are and not a lot of people asking what EN World means to the people who come here and what they would like to see done or what they would like to do to support EN World.




Well, that's largely because every once in a while some folks (publishers and fans alike) do start getting a little ungrateful.  They forget that this place runs on volunteer labor, and start to feel they are entitled to things.  Humans, by nature, tend to slide into such behavior unless they are occasionally reminded that there's things beyond themselves to consider.

As for asking what people feel about the place, and what they want - isn't that what this thread is all about?  In large part, isn't that what the whole Meta Forum is about?  



> As for my ideas on how to give EN World more focus or to make it work more cohesively, I have some half-formed ideas floating around in my head, and most of them center around solidifying what it means to be a part of the EN World community and how you define supporting that community.




I'd be interested, but I have some doubts.  

My doubts (and the reason I said EN World doesn't need to refocus) lie in one simple fact - there's 22,000 registered users and some hundreds of them are active.  While we have our commonalities, we also have our differences.  Lots of them.  We're talking about "herding cats" here.  It seems most reasonable to give them some broad frameworks - like the dividing lines among fora - and from there allow them to collectively find what they want.  Anything else is highly likely to be problematic.

If you have thoughts as how to get these cats to all move in one direction, and I think that direction is a useful one, I'll be all ears


----------



## Mouseferatu (Sep 14, 2004)

Well, I come to ENWorld pretty much every day. I check the D20 news, I check product reviews, but the majority of my time is spent in the forums. Discussions of upcoming or recent products, rules clarifications, hyping my own work (I admit it, yes), and just virtually hanging out with other gamers...

EN World doesn't need to _change_ focus, just tighten it. To me, the community is the single most important part of ENWorld. I want the news and reviews to stay--those are, in that order, priorities number 2 and 3. But number 1 is, by far, the forums. Keep those, and EN World prospers, IMO.

I like the idea of setting up formal galleries, to make the maps and other material more easily accessable and user-friendly. (I suggested much the same in a thread on the main page some days back.)

I can support the idea of ditching the ENnies. I like the fact that they exist, and I'd love to see them continue, but they seem to be the single greatest source of problems, financial and personal, for Morrus and co. If that's so, I say boot them, and fast.

Also, I have to suggest that if EN World is tightening focus, that we stop the drift into covering non-D20/OGL games. I know they're popular, and I'm not saying discussion of them should be disallowed on the main page. But I don't believe we should have reviews for them, or anything else specifically dedicated to them. (That includes an ENnie, but that's a separate issue, and also moot if the ENnies don't last.) We've already got other sites for wide-ranging RPG reviews. I always liked the fact that EN World was D&D/D20-specific. I think throwing that open has caused a lot of the "drift" we've seen in focus (to say nothing of attracting certain recent posters who might not otherwise have come, and who we very well do without if we're going to keep EN World friendly).

I see the need for no change, except to turn the site back to what it's always done best.


----------



## Umbran (Sep 14, 2004)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> I can support the idea of ditching the ENnies. I like the fact that they exist, and I'd love to see them continue, but they seem to be the single greatest source of problems, financial and personal, for Morrus and co. If that's so, I say boot them, and fast.




If the Ennies are going to cause financial difficulties, then we can and should ditch them.  However, if the folks out there cannot grok the idea of a bunch of us getting together to give awards of our own accord, well, that's their problem, not ours.  



> I think throwing that open has caused a lot of the "drift" we've seen in focus




I have to tell you, I don't see it.  I simply don't.  Opening up for a few reviews has not, to my eye, notably changed the discussion content elsewhere.  There's always been occasional discussion of other games around here, and I have not seen any upswing of "lack of focus" of late.   I'm scanning the general forum as we speak, and I just don't see the effect of which you speak.


----------



## MerricB (Sep 14, 2004)

One thing to consider is that the companies that ENworld reports the news about (especially Wizards) have become better at providing news about their products on their own sites.

Then too, I think a bunch of designers have become very busy in their projects and aren't passing on information so much. 

Consider the bunch of Wizards products coming out this year - how much do we really know about them? Not all that much, and it's mostly from articles on Wizards' site.

I know that I really haven't had so much spoiler information about the D&D Miniature game to post this last couple of months as opposed to relaying on official information (although occasionally I get lucky); but it's been a whole lot more than what I've seen about other upcoming D&D products.

Cheers!


----------



## Kid Charlemagne (Sep 16, 2004)

I see the priorities of ENWorld being:

1. Community (in particular the messageboards)
2. News
3. Reviews

All the rest kind of falls into line.  I can understand the news portion taking more time than it seems it should, but I think it is a vital service to have one spot that does a good job of alerting us all to new stuff.  That said - I spend 90% of my time here on the forums, not reading news or reviews.

As for the registered user thing, don't worry about that - I've been here for years, and I've never been a community supporter (more out of laziness than anything else, I think).  I've never felt less than welcome, though there have been times when the lure of supporter-dom seems greater than others - almost entirely due to my own changing feelings, I'm certain.


----------

