# Elysium Squad OOC



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 10, 2005)

EDIT:  USEFUL LINKS to the world of ENIGMATICA:
World Information Thread

Okay, I've been waiting for a new game thread to pop up and join ... but nothing that has gotten my interest has come about.  So, I'll offer a few up and see if there is any interest.

Basic idea: Celestia Squad

The followers of a certain deity (Most likely Heironeous or other LG deity to allow paladin play) have been summoned to investigate several evil cults around the area.  The game would have a heavy combat orientation especially against undead.  Roleplay would be a must, especially religiously themed roleplay.  Deathless type from CD would be used in the game as well.  I have a homebrew world which I could plug this game into.  If someone wants to DM this game I would gladly step into the role of player.  However, if I am to DM this game (and am wiling to do so) I would have the following rules: 

[Sblock]- 32-point buy (That's what I use for the bad guys, too!)
- HP are max 1st, 3/4 rest (round up odd character levels, down even character levels) 
- Any class from PHB, XPH, BoED, Complete books.
- Any feats/spells from above books, but I have authority to veto.
- Vow of Poverty (and other vows) encouraged where appropriate
- Only good alignments allowed
- Stealing rogues strongly discouraged, dungeon delving rogues accepted
- Any PHB race, I have 4 homebrew races to offer up as well
- starting level negotiable, but not higher than 4
- Posting once daily required[/Sblock]

Another Idea: Wilderness Civilized

The characters are outcasts of a typically evil aligned wilderness tribe.  The reason the characters are outcasts is because they have been enlightened to see beyond the violence of their culture and stood up against it.  They were to be killed on account of their desire to go against the evilness of their heritage; however they managed to escape and are currently in the process of fleeing their pursuers.  Could be combat oriented, but could also be RP oriented in the place of combat.

As with the last suggestion, I would be happy to step back and be a player if there was interest to DM the game from someone else.  However, if I were to DM this game I would have a similar set of rules above:

[Sblock]- 32-point buy (That's what I use for the bad guys, too!), 
- HP are max 1st, 3/4 rest (round up odd character levels, down even character levels)
- Most classes from PHB, XPH, BoED, Complete books ... justification for some will be needed
- Any feats/spells from above books, but I have authority to veto.
- Vow of Poverty (and other vows) acceptable where appropriate
- Only good alignments allowed
- Stealing rogues strongly discouraged, dungeon delving rogues accepted
- Any MMI race - related kin most be selected by all players.  [I.E. Goblinkin, all orcs, etc...]
- Starting level negotiable, but not higher than 4
- Posting once daily required[/Sblock]

Anyway, I don't know if any of these catch anyone's interest.  If so, feel free to post - or add other ideas if there is a different type of game you would rather see DMed.  My hope is not necessarily to be a DM myself but to see if a few other games are out there waiting to be formed.

If anyone wonders what my expectations are out of a game, please see the games that I am DMing that are listed in my sig.  I think both of these games are going along quite well, I hope you would concur.  As I said, though, I would be happy to step back and allow others to DM.

So ... Interest?


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## Eonthar (Nov 10, 2005)

*Celestia Squad*

I am intrigued in your "Celestia Squad" idea. Depending upon the post-frequency, I would be interested in joining.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 10, 2005)

Well, that didn't take long.  When you say depending on the post frequency - too much or too little?  And, if you want to control the post frequency, I'd be happy to let you DM!


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## Ferrix (Nov 10, 2005)

Either one could be quite interesting Nonlethal Force.  It'd be interested in either as they have similar themes.

I'd say starting level 4, that way characters have some competence but aren't on the bottom of the rung and can face some creative challenges.  Plus combat heavy games are slightly more fun in the low-mid levels rather than at level 1 where you might die from a single crit.

I'd like to play a female cleric of pelor that I've had in prior games but they've passed on, if we go with Celestia Squad.  If it was the wilderness game that would depend upon the race, but I think it would be fun to play goblinkin and play a blue (goblin) psion.


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## engrishonly (Nov 10, 2005)

I'd like a religious themed game... I've been thinking about a Paladin or zealot (not necessarily a Paladin) who hears voices in her head, inspired by Saint Joan of Arc, and I want to explore that concept.

(I've been thinking of using that concept as a recurring antagonist in Eberron, assuming I ever put enough decent ideas together to run an Eberron game... so I need to flesh it out)


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## Eluvan (Nov 10, 2005)

Either one sounds very good to me.

 I'm not really interested in running another game at the moment, but I feel like I still have room for another game as a player. I have two possible character ideas for the religiously themed game; either a cleric (more of a wade-in-and-smite-the-evil type than a priestly type) or else a ranger/rogue (with the Consecrated Harrier PrC in mind). 

 For the wilderness game... hmmm. I quite like the idea of a cleric, originally of whatever evil god the race we decide on venerates, but who had a moment of epiphany and converted to Pelor, or an equivalent god. Goblinkind sounds best to me, as it leaves some room for different players to choose among a few different races.

 Whichever game we play, I kind of like the idea of starting at level 1 (with possible dispensation for the wilderness game if we decide on a race with HD/ECL). I have a fondness for working your way up from the bottom of the heap.  Failing that, though, I would have no problem with any other starting level really. Ferrix's suggestion of level 4 would work for me.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 11, 2005)

Okay, there sounds like some serious interest in the religious themed game.  Since nobody has jumped up and said "Oh-Oh let me DM this" I'll take the ball, although I certainly will step back if someone comes along and does want to DM.  But so that we can progress, lets collect some thoughts here:

I've heard the god Pelor mentioned twice already.  If that's going to be the god of choice (which is fine by me, Pelor and Heironeous are the two deities my players usually worship) then the game should most likely be called Elysium Squad.     Although the name is not something to quibble over!  Nor is this setting Pelor as the god of choice - for all I care it could be Bahamut and Platinum Squad!   

Ferrix: I should say that your female cleric of Pelor would fit nicely - perhaps you will get a chance to play her!

Eonthar: Your interest is certainly noted, feel free to start generating character concepts.

Engrishonly: I am intrigued by the "guiding voices" concept.  Would these voices be DM controlled or player controlled?  Would you be open to the idea of them being deathless guides (think minimalized Sacred Watcher from BoED) who are purely etherial?  Or perhaps archons or guardinals who speak telepathically or while invisible?  Other thoughts?

Eluvan: Would you be interested in an optional character staring level where you could start as a lower level character for the issue of RP purposes?  If I am the DM I would be willing to grant your character the wealth of the rest of the players but start your character lower.  Of course, this would mean your character would eventually narrow the gap in XP anyway.  If this is interesting to you, feel free to talk more about this.

Anyway, keep the ideas flowing!

If I am the DM, here are the races for my homebrew world:
[Sblock]Race: *Aetos* Plural: *Aetoi*

Racial Traits:
_Abilities:_ +2 Wisdom, +2 Charisma, -2 Dexterity
_Size:_ Small (+1 to AC, attack; +4 to Hide; uses small weapons and armor)
_Speed:_ 20
_Languages:_ Automatic: Common, Aetoille. Bonus: Auran, Dwarven, Elven, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling
_Personable:_ Aetoi have an innate gift for interpreting other creature’s body language. They receive a +2 racial bonus to Diplomacy, Handle Animal, and Sense Motive checks.
_Shield Practiced:_ The Aetoi love for wearing armor grants them a +1 racial competence bonus to their AC when using a metal shield of any kind except bucklers.
_Armor Practiced:_ The Aetoi spend so much time training in metal armor that they are accustomed to moving in it. All Aetoi are automatically proficient with the chain shirt, scale mail, chain mail, and breastplate. In addition, like dwarves, Aetoi can move their standard movement allowance in medium armor made of metal. Unlike dwarves, this movement allowance does not pertain to carrying a medium load unless the Aetoi would be carrying a light load if his armor weight were not included.
_Favored Class:_ Paladin

Physical description:
The Aetoi are a race with all of the typical humanoid characteristics, although their faces are considerably foreign when looked upon by people used to associating with dwarves, elves, and humans. The Aetoi have ears like most other humanoids except that the cartilage on their ears has not separated from the sides of their head. They have narrow eyes, a slim mouth, and their thin noses lay almost completely flat against their faces. In addition, their nose has developed a triangular bony carapace for added protection. Their skin and hair are usually pale and fair.
A typical Aetoi stands about 3’4” tall and weighs about 60 pounds. An Aetos reaches adulthood at 50 years, middle age at 120, old age at 190, venerable age at 260, and the oldest Aetos to ever live was 560 years old. Their short, sturdy bodies are designed to enable them hold a low center of gravity. 
They are not as nimble as many of the other small races, but this is often hard to discern because Aetoi outside their homes are almost always in armor. Aetoi can almost always be seen with their shield and single handed weapon at their side. 

Relations:
The Aetoi share good relations with any race that presents itself as a fair and law respecting society. The Aetoi are skilled traders and often are responsible for forming large caravans to travel into many different regions – regions often occupied by warring opponents. However, the innate ability for the Aetoi to be diplomatic allows them to gain access to most nations that are respectable in their eyes. Those nations which are evil or have little regard for laws are merely avoided by the Aetoi. They have little desire to impact other cultures that do not share their attitude form goodness and order. However, their penchant for diplomacy does often bring them to the aid of any who legitimately request their help – assuming that the land that requests their help promises to repay any people or lands that they have wronged in the past.

Alignment:
Most Aetoi are Lawful Good. Those few that are not lawful are still almost always good. The Aetoi respect fairness above all else, believing that business and friendship is best accomplished through honesty and trusting relations. Aetoi tend to make friends easily, but they have a tendency to remember those who do not treat their friendship with the same respect that an Aetos does. These people are only forgiven when proper apologies and reparations are made according to what is right in the eye of the one who has been offended. If proper and legitimately honest reparations are made, the Aetoi are honor bound to respect and forgive the prior offenders.

Aetoi Lands:
Aetoi cities are few and far between. Since the Aetoi make friends easily and have a knack for getting themselves accepted into other countries, they have developed into great travelers and a race that is at home in cities with a mixture of other races. Although they are certainly not nomads, an Aetoi caravans can be gone from their home for months or years at a time.
In the few rare places where an entire city of Aetoi lives together, the Aetoi tend to build large and flat cities. Their buildings seldom rise higher than one story and never more than two stories. Because of their constant trade and diplomatic efforts, Aetoi cities often have exquisite goods of very high quality to sell. These goods – and therefore the prices – within these cities are always fair and equitable. The Aetoi cities have a reputation for being able to find nearly anything a person could want as long as you are willing to seek out the right traveler who has journeyed to the proper land. 

Religion:
Aetoi worship only the good deity publicly. Aetoi who are not good are so rare that to worship any other deity publicly would bring extreme suspicion and shame upon the Aetos. Those who are not good typically feign a benign respect for the good deity and secretly worship their own deity when they travel.
Aetoi worship is highly structured and typically followed a rigidly prescribed order. Most Aetoi worship across the land occurs at the same time on the same day and involves the same experience for all Aetoi across the land. Sometimes, this is even true across different kindoms, but there are some kingdoms that have different routines because of their different past traditions. In the case where two or more Aetoi meet with differing worship habits, both routines are equally rigid and respected by all Aetoi for the tradition that they are.

Language:
Because Aetoi make excellent traders, Aetoi can speak almost any language with the proper training and reason for learning it. Since Aetoi seldom pursue those who do not accept them, Aetoi do not often have rivals or long-term enemies. Therefore, Aetoi do not often have the need to learn the languages of evil people and their lands. However, any nation that is capable of trade more than likely has an Aetoi who has learned the language to enable trade to ensue. Aetoi frequently learn the language of gnomes, dwarves, and elves since these races often value the bonuses that comes with having Aetoi with whom to trade. Aetoi who leave their home city even once always have taken the time to ensure that they speak common fluently.

Names:
Aetoi names are typically short and full of vowels. Aetoi are named by using their own name first, followed by a prefix attached to their father’s name. If it is a male Aetoi, the prefix is vec; if the Aetoi is female the prefix is vas.
Example male names: Thoo vec-Tao, Fean vec-Grau, Routh vec-Meah
Example female names: Shea vas-Drou, Raenah vas-Nigh, Qua vas-Pahn
Example of a female, her father, and his father: Whue vas-Drau, Drau vec-Gaen, Gaen vec-Bloon

Designers comments - Yes, the -2 to DEX is a hard hit, and you rre most likely thinking "a small paladin?" But hey, we all joke about the halfling paladin - now's your chance to do it!

Race: *Aster * Plural: *Asteres*

Racial Traits:
_Abilities:_ +2 Intelligence, +2 Wisdom, -2 Constitution
_Size:_ Small (+1 to AC, attack; +4 to Hide; uses small weapons and armor)
_Speed:_ 20
_Non-presence:_ Asteres are innately familiar with magical and psionic means for locating people. They receive a +2 racial bonus on saves against Divination spells or Clairsentience powers. An Aster who casts a Divination spell or manifests a Clairsentient power receives a +1 racial bonus to the DC.
_Intellectual Veil:_ Asteres have a heightened ability to imagine spatial relations and therefore to understand their location from the perspective of others. Thus, they have a better than normal ability to hide and receive a +2 racial bonus on Hide checks.
_Clever Perception:_ Asteres have the ability to mentally retain the common routines of their enemies. Because they learn quickly from previous encounters, Asteres receive a +2 bonus to Spot checks as they are able to better anticipate where to expect to have to look for the prey they are hunting. 
_Familiar Hunt:_ Asteres sharpen their tracking and scouting skills on difficult prey. They intentionally hunt animals with the displacement descriptor so that they hone their skills at being able to hide and spot their prey more quickly. Because of this, Asteres gain a +1 racial bonus to attack rolls against any animal with the displacement special ability or an ability that mimics displacement. 
_Low-light vision:_ An Aster can see twice as far as a human in starlight, moonlight, torchlight, and similar conditions. In addition, an Aster retains his ability to see in color while using this ability.
_Languages:_ Automatic: Common. Bonus: Dwarven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Orc, Terran.
_Favored Class:_ Scout (Complete Adventurer) or Thief (If not using complete books)

Physical description:
Asteres are typically very thin with small framed bodies. Since their race has learned to survive by avoiding conflict altogether rather than dominating other races, most Asteres have bodies that look as though it would not support to much more than an average muscle mass anyway. It is possible for a strong Aster to exist, but it is genetically highly unlikely. An Aster reaches adulthood at 20 years, middle age at 50, old age at 80, venerable age at 110, and the oldest Aster to ever live was 170 years old.
Asteres often have bushy eyebrows which help protect their eyes. Most Asteres do not grow any other facial hair except six whiskers between their noses and their upper lip. These whiskers, three on the left and three on the right, grow long and thin enough to be of little use to the Aster. As a result, most Asteres let their whiskers grow to their maximum length – usually to their lower jaw. A typical Aster has thin features such as eyes, nose, ears, and lips; although many variations on size do occur. 
Asteres will wear any particular type of clothing, and they often change to match their surroundings. Because Asteres depend on being able to hide and blend in more than anything else, Asteres seldom wear extravagant and flashy clothing. They will carry jewelry, rings, and other possessions when they are confident they will not draw unnecessary attention or when they can be hidden easily. 

Relations:
Asteres have no particular reason to not get along with any other race. Occasional disputes exist between other highly intelligent races, but Asteres dislike direct confrontation enough that even these disputes are not widespread. Some Asteres are not bothered by lower intelligent races, but many Asteres simply do not desire to spent their time with those of lesser intelligence. Often, an Aster will relate to a lesser intelligent creature as an owner might relate to their pet.
Those races that are capable of being on par with the higher intelligence of the Asteres have little to fear from them. Asteres prize trading information as a means of bargaining and establishing relationships, and therefore proving their worth through other means than physical prowess. Most Asteres will willingly bargain to ensure that relationships do not become strained.

Alignment:
Asteres can be of any alignment, although they do bend slightly to the chaotic side. They have all the makings for using their mental abilities in helpful ways as well as harmful ways. But when given a choice, they enjoy being free spirits and using their information in means that suit them.

Asteres Lands:
Asteres mix well in the main cities of the land and therefore do not have cities of their own. You can find Asteres in almost any locale with a tavern or an inn, but the larger the city the more Asteres will usually be present. Larger cities provide more opportunities for the Aster to hone their skills and become greater informants. It is not uncommon to find Asteres in military outposts serving as advance scouts.

Religion:
Asteres typically worship the god of the city in which they dwell. Occassionally an Aster will find a companion that they become so enamored with that they will worship their god out of respect. But when left alone, an Aster will worship whatever the majority of people around them are worshipping.

Language:
Asteres do not have a language of their own; instead they learn the language of the city in which they live. However, Asteres often live around dwarves, gnomes, halflings, and other races of their size. Because of this fact, many Asteres are familiar with the dwarven alphabet and can usually learn to speak any language that follows the same alphabet rules as dwarven.

Names:
Asteres are given names at childbirth, but often they take on descriptors as names in lieu of their real names. Most Asteres met in the world will be known by their descriptor and the city to which they belong. For example, the Wise Sage of Hileos might well be a male Aster living in Helios of a good alignment. Or, the Dark Strategist of Messiteis might be an evil male Aster who once was a scout in the lands around Helios. The Inspector of Lithinoss could well be a female Aster who hires out her services to survey a given area. And the Arrow of Phoneou may just be an evil assassin serving the king of Hamartia.

Designer's comments: This is modeled after the gnome to some extent, but with a focus on other aspects beside illusion magic.

Race: *Bous* Plural: *Boes*

Racial Traits:
_Abilities:_ +2 Constitution, -2 Dexterity
_Size:_ Medium
_Speed:_ 30
_Languages:_ Automatic: Common, Giant. Bonus: Auran, Aquan, Terran, Ignan, Gnome, Goblin, Sylvan.
_Mistaken Identity:_ Boes are often confused with Minotaur by those who do not know the difference. Because of this, many good Bous have been slain by non-Bous in a confused effort to purge the land. This has generated a deep dislike for Minotaur by all Boes. As a result, Boes get a +1 bonus to attack and damage rolls against Minotaur.
_Large-handed:_ Because the Boes possess a size advantage over the typical humanoid, their grip on their weapon makes it easier for them to sunder or disarm. All Boes receive a +1 bonus on attack roll made during the opposed rolls step of an attempt to sunder or disarm an opponent. This bonus also applies if the Boes is subject to a disarm or sunder attempt by an opponent. This bonus does not count in the preceding attack of opportunity if there is one. If the Boes is fighting with a two-handed weapon, the bonus increases to +2.
_Solid Body:_ When making a bull rush, trip, or overrun attack, the Bous receives a +2 bonus to their strength or dexterity check.
_Dense Body:_ Boes bodies are dense in spite of their larger than normal size. A Bous receives a +2 bonus to their Fortitude save to survive massive damage.
_Firm Will:_ Boes are used to having a say in their actions, if not getting their way outright. Because of this, a Bous receives a +2 bonus on any save against an enchantment spell or a telepathic psionic power.
_Favored Class:_ Barbarian

Physical description:
Boes stand between 6’0 and 7’0 tall and weigh between 240 and 350 pounds. Females are slightly larger and heavier than their male counterparts. A Bous reaches adulthood at 20 years, middle age at 40, old age at 60, venerable age at 80, and the oldest Bous to ever live was 120 years old. 
Bous have small non-functional horns that begin growing slightly above and forward from their ears. The horns curve backward around the ears, down to the level of their jawbone, and back up to a point just below their eye socket and about one inch away from their skin. Boes horns grow very slowly; by the beginning of adulthood the horns have grown halfway down their skull behind their ears and only at middle age does the horn begin to curl up from the level of the jaw towards the eye. Only a Bous that has managed to make it to a venerable age has horns of a full length. Bous typically live as long as humans.
Bous skin is always dark, often taking on a slight reddish hue over the typical dark brown. During the summer months, the more time a Bous spends outside and in direct sunlight the more the skin takes on a reddish hue – although it never turns more red than brown except through magical means. This effect has no impact upon the abilities of the Bous. Bous eyes are white with either dark green, dark brown, or black irises. Often the colors of the eye are so dark that they make the iris indistinguishable from the pupil. Boes typically have larger than normal hands and long, thick fingers ideal for increasing a tight grip on larger objects.
Bous tend to wear long flowing robes over any other type of clothing, although there is no cultural or social restriction for clothing type. Most clothing worn by Boes is colored in earth tones, but again there is no cultural restriction for coloration. All unmarried Bous wear a ring through one of their nostrils. The ring is silver and through the left nostril for the smaller male Boes; and the ring is gold and through the right nostril for the larger and more dominant female Boes. This ring is typically removed once a Bous has found a mate. Bous are loyal to their mates for life.

Relations:
Because of their great size and unfortunate luck for being mistaken as Minotaur, many Bous live the lives of hermits. It is still uncommon to find a Bous town in more remote areas, but not impossible. Bous typically get along well with other races once they demonstrate that they understand the difference between the Boes and Minotaur kind. Since Boes can be of any alignment, Boes may be found mixing with any race that respects the qualities that a Boes brings to life. Boes may occasionally join together and form large hunting bands in the case where a Minotaur hunter has slain several other Boes. These raiding parties are often feared by the general public, but they are typically of no threat except to the one who is responsible for slaying a Bous because they perceived it as a Minotaur.

Alignment:
Boes have no alignment restrictions. A Bous generally becomes the alignment that prevailed in the society in which they were raised. Boes can be very regimented and raised to respect strict laws; but on the other hand Boes can enjoy the freedom in life that their larger stature tends to bring. Boes can respect the cause of good and helping those around them; but some Boes can be quite capable of understanding greed and domination over others as well. Boes can often learn to appreciate all of the above held in balance. 

Boes Lands:
Many Bous do not desire to congregate together in a formal setting. The typical Bous lives a solitary life until mated. In spite of this solitary lifestyle, every Bous belongs to a formal family hierarchy of Boes. Male Boes who mate for life are removed from their own hierarchy and adopted into the hierarchy of their mate. These family hierarchies always meet together in a central location at various times per year. Each family of Boes has their own unique schedule for meeting, but no family of Boes goes without meeting at least four times a year. It is at these meetings that the Boes teach socialization to their children and form parties to take revenge upon Minotaur hunters who may be preying upon family members.
Boes do not claim land for themselves, they exist in the land without care about whose kingdom the land belongs to. Boes usually have a good relationship with the kingdom in which they live, however, because the Boes treat the land as their own and typically care for the land a great deal. Thus, Boes are often welcome in the land once it is discovered that they are not Minotaur. However, even Boes who are welcomed in the land seldom find the urge to become true citizens of a kingdom. Instead, the Boes have their loyalty to family. It is certainly possible for a Boes hierarchy to span across kingdom borders if the Boes family lives near the edge of the border. Most Boes families live within a three days journey of the central family land where they meet.

Religion:
The Boes are most commonly worshippers of nature. They can find many respectable things in religion, so long as the religion is not destructive to their homelands or their people. The Boes have difficulty with extreme fanatics, however, because they are often the victim of mistaken identity and live knowing what types of genocide fanatical thought can lead to.

Language:
Boes are capable of speaking any language, however their opportunities are quite limited as far as which languages they can learn. Most Boes tribes speak a dialect of Giant, which interestingly enough often allows them to converse with any Minotaur they should happen to find and hunt. Boes occasionally have a chance to learn any of the elemental languages of nature: Terran, Aquan, Auran, and most rarely Ignan. Of course, any race which has made itself known to the family hierarchy of Boes of an area has the opportunity to teach them their language as well. Most common in this category are Gnome, Goblin, and Sylvan.

Names:
Boes names are typically guttural sounding. They are given only a single name at birth. Thus, a Boes does not carry a family or surname. At the time in which a Bous sets of on his or her own, usually determined by their parents, the place in which the young Bous chooses to live is adopted by the Bous in the place of a surname. When two Boes mate, the male Bous willingly changes his surname to match the surname of his mate.
Example male names: Groack of the oak grove, Trang of the purple cave, Brist of the tall rock
Example female names: Craash of the narrow river, Ergoth of the apple orchard, Herthosh the cliff dweller

Designer's notes: Again, the -2 DEX is something people are unaccostomed to taking, but this race definately has some things to offer for a player who wants to use more tactics with a fighter type than just hack the bad guy to pieces.

Race: *Drakontos* Plural: *Drakontai*

Racial Traits:
_Abilities:_ +2 Charisma, +2 Wisdom, -2 Dexterity
_Size:_ Medium
_Speed:_ 30
_Feat:_ Draconic Heritage (Complete Arcane) at 1st level regardles of initial class taken
_Skill Points:_ 4 extra skill points at 1st level, 1 extra skill point per level thereafter
_Languages:_ Automatic: Common, Draconic. Bonus: Auran, Elven, Giant, Sylvan, Terran
_Lowlight Vision:_ Drakontai are blessed with good eyesight, and have lowlight vision as elves do.
_Favored Class:_ Sorcerer

Physical description:
Drakontai appear as normal humans, their draconic heritage is buried deep in their otherwise human genetic make-up. Most live in and among humans and it is quite possible that a drakontos is not aware of his special heritage. In this case, however, the drakontos still benefits from his Draconic Heritage, it is merely viewed as special knack for a particular type of task. A typical male drakontos stands just over 6' tall and weighs about 200 lbs. The typical female stands about 5'10" and weighs 160 lbs. However, the range of drakontai heights is between 5'4" to 6'8" and ranging between 110 lbs and 275 lbs. A Drakontos reaches adulthood at 75 years, middle age at 175, old age at 275, venerable age at 375, and the oldest Drakontos to ever live was 775 years old. This extended life span can cause problems from Drakontai who are unaware of their heritage and who live among normal humans.
The hair of a Drakontos often takes on highlights of their Heritage, but the base color remains a typical shade for a human. In addition to the hair, a Drakontos has a 90% chance that one eye is the same color as their Heritage Dragon and a 60% chance that both eyes are the same color of their Heritage. This means that it is possible for a fair number of Drakontai to have different colored eyes and to experience eye color change over the course of their lives. Any Drakontos whose eye or eyes match their Heritage Dragon also experiences the same color change as the Heritage Dragon. The change is very slow and gradual, however, because the Drakontai are blessed with long lives. This physical effect with the eyes may also make it difficult for a Drakontos who is unaware of his heritage and living among normal human beings. 

Relations:
Those who are not aware of their heritage mix freely with humans and all the races who accept humans in their midst. Drakontai who are aware of their heritage also freely mix with all races, but they gravitate towards elven communities. Drakontai have a deep respect for all who claim power from the land or the sky. In general, Drakontai tend to value timely sage advice and strength of character among those they interact with. 

Alignment:
Drakontai can be of any alignment, but they are seldom ever truly neutral in regard to both axis. The Drakontai personality is genetically tied to their heritage, and thus each Drakontos must be within one step of the alignment for their Heritage Dragon on one axis and the other axis must match exactly. Thus, a Drakontos of Silver Dragon Heritage may only be Lawful Good, Lawful Neutral, or Neutral Good. The Heritage is so strongly woven to the Drakontos' personality that they will never act out of their own alignment unless they are under the influence of a magical effect. 

Drakontai Lands:
While many Drakontai live among humans and may even be completely unaware of their Heritage, there are Drakontai areas and communities that do exist. These communities are always served, protected, or controlled by a dragon (or dragon family) of their Heritage. The good aligned Drakontai are protected and looked after by their Heritage dragon, while evil Drakontai are often slave cultures existing purely for the amusement, military might, or even appetite of their Heritage dragon. Because dragons tend to be solitary animals, Drakontai communities also tend to be found in very remote locations, well off the beaten path.

Religion:
Like humans, Drakontai worship the entire range of deities. However, any Drakontos who lives in a town that is protected or controlled by their Heritage Dragon will honor the dragon’s deity as well as their own deity.

Language:
Drakontai have an innate knack for learning and understanding Draconic, even those who are unaware of their heritage. Because of the love that the Drakontai have for the earth, the air, and all things that draw power out of these sources a Drakontai often can speak Auran, Elven, Giant, Sylvan, or Terran.

Names:
Drakontai adopt a wide variety of names. Their names can match any name that is commonly found in human lands. Many Dracontai are given elven names out of respect for that culture which lives as long as they do and respects the earth as much as Drakontai do.

Designer's notes - A human with a unique twist. The -2 DEX reflects the draconic nature still inside of them, and the +2 CHA and +2 WIS definately says that there is something very likeable and long lived about this race. And there are several feats stemming off of Draconic Heritage that could be very useful to even a fighter (of any type) or a cleric. This is the one and only race I wave the class restriction for Draconic Heritage for.

There be the races. They are intentionally designed to give players a different set of ability modifiers than they are used to. At first, they seem very strange, other of my players have said as much. But once people get used to it, especially the -2 hit to DEX, they really can encourage the RP aspects of the game. [/Sblock]


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## JonnyFive (Nov 11, 2005)

hrm this sounds interesting.  i have a few concepts that i would love to try, in eather setting type.  is there still room though?


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 11, 2005)

Pitch a concept away, JonnyFive ... doesn't hurt to try an idea out on people, right?


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## doghead (Nov 11, 2005)

I have an old hobgoblin bard 10 that I played in Uriel's Remnants game. I always wanted to see what it would be like to play (a version of) him from a lower level. 3-4 would be good.

I suppose that that would put me in the Wilderness game camp.

But I do like playing paladins. Now a party of paladins ... well, it would certainly help avoid the usual paladin in party problems.

thotd


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## JonnyFive (Nov 11, 2005)

hrm alright then. well for the wild, i was thinking the monster as a ranger with favored class that is his race, some great roleplaying possibilites there

and for the celestial how about a human cleric that is going towards the vow's of peace.  great fun again in the RP.  or a paranoid cleric/paladin headed toward the inquisition PrC. 

eather way i'm pretty flexable with the the concepts.


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## Bront (Nov 11, 2005)

If you've got an opening, I could be interested in the religious one.  I've been tempted to do a monk, and VoP could be interesting as well.  However, if you have an overabundance of people, I'll also be willing to back out to make room for others.


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## Fenris (Nov 11, 2005)

I have this Aetos cleric of Pelor I could play   

Toss my hat in after Bront's if you have room.


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## Ferrix (Nov 11, 2005)

Everyone is itching to play a cleric... I called it first you punks   

Although if I have to fight for it, I'll go with a Drakontos sorcerer.


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## Bront (Nov 11, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Everyone is itching to play a cleric... I called it first you punks
> 
> Although if I have to fight for it, I'll go with a Drakontos sorcerer.



I didn't ask for a Cleric 

My cleric idea involves Eberron, and both games she was in died, so I think she's a curse. Though I could have fun with a Cloistered Cleric of some kind.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 11, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Everyone is itching to play a cleric... I called it first you punks
> 
> Although if I have to fight for it, I'll go with a Drakontos sorcerer.




that ya did.  paranoid pally it is!


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## Fenris (Nov 11, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Though I could have fun with a Cloistered Cleric of some kind.




Ah damn it Bront called it first 

Ferrix, my cleric reference was an inside joke.


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## Bront (Nov 11, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Ah damn it Bront called it first
> 
> Ferrix, my cleric reference was an inside joke.



I might go the Mystic Theurge route with a cloistered, simply because it looks interesting, and might be fun with a god of magic.  But that's assuming I can't do my VoP monk.


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## Fenris (Nov 11, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I might go the Mystic Theurge route with a cloistered, simply because it looks interesting, and might be fun with a god of magic.  But that's assuming I can't do my VoP monk.




VoP=Voice over Prayer?


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## Bront (Nov 11, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> VoP=Voice over Prayer?



Sure, why not.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 11, 2005)

*insert evil grin here*  just read yer homebrew races and i'm squirming in my seat    take 1 part Aetos, 1 part rouge, add 5 paladin to flavor and voala you have the beautiful makings of a lovely shadowbain inquisiter at yer hands..... oooh can i please please please have him!! he's soooooo cute


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## Eluvan (Nov 11, 2005)

> Eluvan: Would you be interested in an optional character staring level where you could start as a lower level character for the issue of RP purposes?  If I am the DM I would be willing to grant your character the wealth of the rest of the players but start your character lower.  Of course, this would mean your character would eventually narrow the gap in XP anyway.  If this is interesting to you, feel free to talk more about this.




 Mmmm... it _is_ interesting to me, and I've done it in games before. But in this case, I don't think it would particularly suit either of my character concepts so if we're starting at level 4, I'll just go with that. 

 I take it the standard PHB races also have a place in your homebrew?


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## Bront (Nov 11, 2005)

Ok, assuming VoP is acceptable, I'm debating between a Goliath, Half-orc, Human, or Boes Monk.  Need to bat things around a bit.  Got a good background going for him too.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 11, 2005)

A note on Cloistered Cleric:  I don't remember cloistered cleric in the sources I listed.  It is also morning and I am still sleepy, so I could be screwed up.  But if not, I am going to nix the cloistered cleric route.  Sorry.

A note on Vow of Peace:  I will not nix this idea, JohnnyFive, but I think your other idea about the Church Inquisition PrC fits better with the party and my thoughts on the upcoming game as a DM.  I listed that one below, but I will not nix the Vow of Peace.  It just will be difficult for you if you choose it.

Note to doghead: I did not include you on the list because it seemed like you were more interested in a wilderness game.  If that is an error, please accept my apologies and let me know.

Okay, so - list of potential characters:

Eonthar - Unknown/unknown but interest expressed

Ferrix - Female unknown/Cleric of Pelor

Engrishonly - Unknown/"Zealot-type"

Eluvan - Unknown/Cleric OR Unknown/Ranger-Ranger (PHB Races all accepted as printed in PHB)

Johnnyfive - Aetos/Paladin-Rogue (Headed for Shadowbane Inquisitor)

Bront - Bous/Monk (VoP approved - especially given the race it makes sense)

Fenris - Unknown/Unknown

Okay, that gives 7, so I am going to oficially close the openings.  Noting a lack of someone desiring to DM, I'll take it so we move forward.  We'll go with the homebrew world.  I'll post much more info later in about 5-6 hours when I get back from work.  For now, though, we have work to do regarding race/class of the characters.

First question first - we need to settle on a god.  I haven't heard any objections to Pelor, but now is the time to speak.

[Sblock]
	
	



```
Altua	F	LG	Longsword	
Bahamut	M	LG	Heavy Pick	
Delleb	M	LG	Dart	
Heironeous	M	LG	Longsword	
Moradin	M	LG	Warhammer	
Pholtus	M	LG	Quarterstaff	
Rao	M	LG	Light Mace	
Yondalla	F	LG	Short Sword	
Ehlonna	F	NG	Longbow	
Garl Glittergold	M	NG	Battleaxe	
Pelor	M	NG	Heavy Mace	
Syreth	M	NG	Heavy Mace
```
[/Sblock]

Assuming it worked, above is a list of deities if the party would prefer to go with another besides Pelor.  I will state that for the purpose of this game, we should all settle on one.  [Oh, list is combined from PHB, CD, XPH, and BoED - Only LG and NG deities presented] Barring no objections, Pelor it is.  If there are objections, as I said before now is the time to speak.

Second question is on character starting level/wealth.  I've heard no objections to 4, so let's go with that.  As I said with Eluvan, anyone desiring to start lower can retain their level 4 starting wealth status but take a cut in XP.  If we have a significant party size that might not be as big of a deal as with a small party.

Third question is on party size.  This is where I leave it up to the players hands.   I know people go on vacations and have lives on the weekends.  So do I, actually!   Having said that let me also say I don't mind taking out a party of 7 players as long as everyone posts when they can.  Online, I've found that big parties imply that everyone take up the banner of RP and conversation because there is simply too many people for the DM to have NPCs initiate alot of the RP.  So here's my third question - By continuing in this thread you are agreeing to post whenever possible (once a day required).  If you can't do that on a regular basis, please say so.  There is no shame in saying so at all.

Fourth question is really not a big deal, but I'll get it out there anyway.  With a large party we should all settle in on a color for indicating speech.  [Please see the games in my sig above for examples of how conversation/thoughts/actions are posted.  It is pretty normal, but ...]  I lay stake to the following colors:  Sienna is used when the party splits up.  Medium Turquoise is used when I have an Sblock for certain characters only.  Lime is general NPC speech.  Olive is special NPC speech.  I tried to leave most of the other favorites (red, yellow, gray, orange, blue) open.  However, if you would, please lay stake to a color.

I think that will do it for now.  If possible, respond to each of the above four questions and settle in on a race/class.  

Oh, racial tensions in my homebrow are extremely eased. There is no inherant hatred between elves and dwarves, for example.  Humans (and therefore Drakontai and even a few Elans) dominate the population by far, but most towns are very well mixed racial.  Dwarves still tend to live underground, so they can be a bit segregated (although they live with gnomes, too).  But for the most part, racial tension will not play a large part of this game (except in the case of a ranger's favored enemy, of course.)

- - - - - - - - -

*Note to Wilderness players:  If I am DMing the religious game, I won't have time to DM the wilderness game.  However, if someone else wants to DM please take it up.  It looks like there are enough players to make it work.  I'll play if there is a spot open - I just can't DM both.


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## Eluvan (Nov 11, 2005)

Alright - you can assume Human Male Rogue 2/Ranger 2 for my character. 

 As far as deities go, I'm perfectly happy to go with Pelor.


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## Ferrix (Nov 11, 2005)

As a Neutral Good deity, Pelor is a good choice so you can have some in-party variance on alignment on the ethos axis.  You could have the lawful good proselytizer, the neutral good healer and the chaotic good avenger, all following Pelor as they are within one step of his alignment.  Which would add some tension and character dynamic.

I'll stat up my female cleric then.


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## Bront (Nov 11, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> [Bront - Bous/Monk (VoP approved - especially given the race it makes sense)



I'm debating between that and the other races listed, but still VoP monk.  Half-Orc is the other leaning, but a Bous might be interesting.

BTW, I claim White


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## engrishonly (Nov 11, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Engrishonly: I am intrigued by the "guiding voices" concept.  Would these voices be DM controlled or player controlled?  Would you be open to the idea of them being deathless guides (think minimalized Sacred Watcher from BoED) who are purely etherial?  Or perhaps archons or guardinals who speak telepathically or while invisible?  Other thoughts?




DM controlled or player controlled? I think a little of both... because as she was tried for heresy, I think there was that part to St.Joan - that when it comes to voices, those who don't have unwavering faith AND trust in the visionary who hears voices, then one cannot ever be entirely sure if it's a fantasy or reality.

So if there are DM controlled voices that cause this character to wander off in a field and start talking to invisible angels, then we would definitely know... but if there are also character moments when she wanders off, then we wouldn't know for sure (especially the other characters) if her "talks with God" are actually real in that moment or if they are false.

(EDIT2: I think that's part of the beauty of faith... to believe, and to have the belief in your heart, despite the lack of empirical understanding of what you believe in. Knowing in your heart that you believe, but not knowing in your head if it's for real. It's in that questioning, like when St. Joan was being burned at the stake and asking God for help (and she burns to death... although as a Catholic, I believe firmly that she sits with God in Heaven), that's when the beautiful moments happen. Pure zealotry would be far more boring)

I don't know the Sacred Watcher class since I don't have the BoED... I would definitely want the voices to be voices only, and not anything that would interfere (no invisible creatures that would come down to save "St. Joan" from the flames). Sometimes, it would be voices with clear messages... sometimes, just feelings or reactions (I'm imagining something like Dr. Gaius Baltar in the new Battlestar Galactica, something like "The Hand of God" episode).

As for class... I originally imagined a Paladin, but just as an ideal. In some ways, I think she works BETTER as a Warrior who aspires to be a Paladin, but didn't quite fit in to what the Paladin order was looking for.

Anyway, I'll think about this some more...

EDIT: Pelor sounds good... the Sun God is always cool to follow.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 11, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I'm debating between that and the other races listed, but still VoP monk.  Half-Orc is the other leaning, but a Bous might be interesting.




Bront: I should say that for VoP based characters I am a stickler for both sides of the coin.  Obviously nothing more than mundane weapons/items/etc - that goes without saying.  But I am also a stickler that the characters demand an equal share of the loot be given away to charities.  If everyone agrees, usually the easiest way to handle this is that the VoP monk claim things/money/etc and either make someone else carry them or even carry them themselves but NEVER use them.  I have often found it odd that the book states that they can't have any wealth but yet they must tithe.  I've also found it odd that the book clearly indicates that the VoP character must get their fair share of the loot to keep party wealth balanced - but yet they can't carry anything valuable.  We'll need to address this to everyone's satisfaction before beginning.  I have solved it several ways ... One way is if another party member is willing to tote the stuff around and make the contribution when requested - that works.  But, that characters must never use any of the monk's stuff.  Another way is to given the monk a rather bag of holding that stores stuff to be donated away and if it is ever used for any other purpose (or stuff is drawn out for any reason other than to donate the item to a worthy cause) it automatically violates the Vow and the monk loses the benefit of the feat.  Of course, I am open to other suggestions - but with VoP I want to make sure we are clear going in as to how the character's wealth will be managed until it is donated away.

If you are curious about the Bous in game-play, feel free to stop by the Clutches of Evil thread and ask Daz or Jkason how they've found it.  Granted, the game only started a few months ago - but they might have an opinion (either good or bad).

_For all players:_  As far as the races, any of the PHB or the four custom races are acceptable.  Large characters are not to be preferred, because there are a number of crypts in the party's future - crypts that large creatures might find ... uncomfortable.  I state that beforehand to be fair.  However, any race/class from the books listed are fair game.

Just to be clear, all characters will start with 5,400 gp character wealth as per table 5-1 in the 3.5 DMG p. 135.  Any gold not spent will be allowed to remain with the character.  Please drop silver pieces and copper pieces - I tend to not really worry about them beyond level 1 anyway.  Any unspent money can be converted to gems using the table in the following post. 

I will create a RG thread for those players who are definately in.  Please post character sheets there and all OOC conversation here.  That will make sure we don't miss posts or anything.  EDIT: Here is the link: Elysium Squad

Eluvan: go ahead and stat up the character, let me know if you have any issues or questions.  It should be pretty straightforward.  Don't forget to claim a color.

Ferrix: you are good to go, what race are you going for?  Also, don't forget to claim a color.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 11, 2005)

*Monetary Equivilancies*

For the record, my homebrew world uses a a standardized table for gemstone conversions.  ICly speaking, this is because trade and economics have advanced enough that standardizations make business easier on the merchants - and more profitable.  All gemstones on the following table are cut to a standard size/clarity.  Obviously, gems with less clarity will be larger while gems with greater clarity will be smaller - thus the monetary value remains constant.  

GEMS 

```
Blue Quartz:        10 gp.
Lapis Lazuli:       20 gp.
Obsidian:           25 gp.
Rose Quartz:        40 gp.
Onyx:               50 gp.
Sardonyx:           75 gp.
Amethyst:          100 gp.
Jade:              200 gp.
Silver Pearl:      250 gp.
Violet Garnet:     400 gp.
Yellow Topaz:      500 gp.
Black Pearl:       750 gp.
Fire Opal:        1000 gp.
Sapphire:         2000 gp.
Ruby:             4000 gp.
Emerald:          5000 gp.
Jacinth:          7500 gp.
Diamond:         10000 gp.
```

OOCly speaking, I realize this negates the need for Appraise(Gemstones) for the most part.  However, PbP games are long, and quibbling over gem prices only lengthens the game.  Plus, things like appraise checks often have alot of body language involved between DM and player - which cannot happen on PbP games.  So, I use the standardized table simply for convenience.  Given the character ideas, I don't think this will hinder anyone's character concept.  I think it will make all our lives easier.

Edit:  I have linked to this post to the original post in the OOC thread for your future convenience.


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## Eonthar (Nov 11, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, that didn't take long.  When you say depending on the post frequency - too much or too little?  And, if you want to control the post frequency, I'd be happy to let you DM!




A frequency of once per day is fine. I would rather not play in a game that only has one turn per week, and I have had problems with games where 10 posts per day are not quite enough.

Pelor is fine, 4th level is good too.

I would like to reserve DarkOrange as my colour - it is the one that I normally use anyways.

As far as a character goes, I was thinking a Paladin/Sorcerer combo, and as far as race is concerned, I think that I would like to try a Drakontos, or if you are open to other races, an Aasimar (Planetouched).


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 11, 2005)

Eonthar said:
			
		

> A frequency of once per day is fine. I would rather not play in a game that only has one turn per week, and I have had problems with games where 10 posts per day are not quite enough.
> 
> Pelor is fine, 4th level is good too.
> 
> ...




If you post once per day, you will not here a single complaint from me!  There may be occasions where you could post more than once per day, but that is your discretion.

As far as the pally/sorc combo - I am assuming you are only going to advance so far in one of the two classes since the paladin classes doesn't multiclass well with sorcerer.  I'm not vetoing by any means, just making sure we are on the same page.

Also, regarding race - Aasimar is acceptable if you are planning on taking the LA.  I will warn you that the LA may hurt from time to time - especially as the players progress and the granted powers DCs become easier to overcome by higher level characters.  Again, I'm not vetoing it at all, just making sure we are on the same page!  But Aasimar is acceptable.

As long as the above is acceptable to you, then feel free to stat up the character and post in the RG thread at your leisure.


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## Eonthar (Nov 11, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> As far as the pally/sorc combo - I am assuming you are only going to advance so far in one of the two classes since the paladin classes doesn't multiclass well with sorcerer.  I'm not vetoing by any means, just making sure we are on the same page.




Yeah, I am thinking two levels of Paladin, and then starting on the levels of Sorcerer. I may want to take Eldritch Knight, or something similar at a later point in time. Would you allow the Battle Sorcerer option from Unearthed Arcana? Not sure I would take it, but I might.



			
				Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Also, regarding race - Aasimar is acceptable if you are planning on taking the LA.  I will warn you that the LA may hurt from time to time - especially as the players progress and the granted powers DCs become easier to overcome by higher level characters.  Again, I'm not vetoing it at all, just making sure we are on the same page!  But Aasimar is acceptable.




I forgot about the LA. Then I think that I will stick with a Drakantos.



			
				Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> As long as the above is acceptable to you, then feel free to stat up the character and post in the RG thread at your leisure.




Sounds good. I will try to get my character done this weekend.


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 11, 2005)

Ok then i claim red, and my char is up in the RG.  backround wil be posted after a few days


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## Eluvan (Nov 11, 2005)

Consider Light Blue jumped on and claimed. 

 Just so you know, I'm feeling a little snowed under with essays and other commitments right now, so it might be a few days before I can get a character up. Hope that's okay.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

Eonthar:   I'd prefer not to use Battle Sorcerer in this game as I have had bad experiences with it.  Plus, I don't own the book, and I try not to use sources that I do not own.  However, the paly/sorc/EK combo would certainly be fair game should you decide to go down that track.

JohnnyFive:  I will take a gander in the RG thread, thanks for your quick response.

Eluvan:  Sounds fair enough.  Get your RL commitments off your back so you can enjoy the character creation process.  If you find out you need more time, that's no big either.  If need be, we can add you in after we start - but I doubt it'll even come to that.  But by all means, take care of RL concerns before internet!

All: Actually, everyone can take a bit of time working on the character backgrounds.  I'll type up some stats about the homebrew world and we can go from there.  Once the world info is posted, you all can try and find something than gets your interest and figure it into your character background.  So don't worry about taking a few days - this process will be a while before everything is locked down tight.  So far so good as far as I am concerned.


----------



## engrishonly (Nov 12, 2005)

Text will be Cyan.

Just hashing out ideas... the basic plan is all Fighter levels, with stuff/fluff on top to set this character apart. I may or may not pick up the BoED soon, but I'm not sure if that would affect my choices.

In some ways, I would want everything fairly mundane about this character except the voices that guide her to do Pelor's will.

Since the voices that this character hears likely will have some benefits, I think I should invest a Feat in it, even if the actual workings of the Feat might not be known... if that is okay.

Anyway, I'll just start thinking up a background first & post stuff as I go on the other thread.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

Hmmm. Looking through the books to try and find a valid feat that might work.  I'll admit I was having a bit of difficulty.  The closest I could come is the Wild Talent Feat from the XPH.  It makes your character psionic, but unable to use psionic powers.  Essentially, it would open your character up to the psionic chains of feats.

But, that really isn't all that helpful.  My thought is that if the voices give no benefit - other than an occasional RP moment ... then there is no need to spend a feat on it.

I suppose one could justify a feat along the lines of Lightning Reflexes - giving some sort of "insight" bonus ... even though I realize that isn't exactly what the Lightning reflexes is for.  Anyway ... just thinking out loud more than anything.


----------



## Bront (Nov 12, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Bront: I should say that for VoP based characters I am a stickler for both sides of the coin.  Obviously nothing more than mundane weapons/items/etc - that goes without saying.  But I am also a stickler that the characters demand an equal share of the loot be given away to charities.  If everyone agrees, usually the easiest way to handle this is that the VoP monk claim things/money/etc and either make someone else carry them or even carry them themselves but NEVER use them.  I have often found it odd that the book states that they can't have any wealth but yet they must tithe.  I've also found it odd that the book clearly indicates that the VoP character must get their fair share of the loot to keep party wealth balanced - but yet they can't carry anything valuable.  We'll need to address this to everyone's satisfaction before beginning.  I have solved it several ways ... One way is if another party member is willing to tote the stuff around and make the contribution when requested - that works.  But, that characters must never use any of the monk's stuff.  Another way is to given the monk a rather bag of holding that stores stuff to be donated away and if it is ever used for any other purpose (or stuff is drawn out for any reason other than to donate the item to a worthy cause) it automatically violates the Vow and the monk loses the benefit of the feat.  Of course, I am open to other suggestions - but with VoP I want to make sure we are clear going in as to how the character's wealth will be managed until it is donated away.
> 
> If you are curious about the Bous in game-play, feel free to stop by the Clutches of Evil thread and ask Daz or Jkason how they've found it.  Granted, the game only started a few months ago - but they might have an opinion (either good or bad).



I did want to discuss that with you.

Obvious on the mondain items, and I understand the fair share.  Here is my thoughts though, since intent is often what is delt with in a vow.

While he will avoid and generaly disdain carrying monitary wealth, occasionaly, it is in his best interests to do so, not for personal gain, but it is indeed simpler for him to give it to someone else himself.  So, if he were to recieve some gold, he could carry it, given he was prompt and direct in bringing it to an appropriate tithe, or simply even give it to charity (A begger on the street, a woman in need of feeding her child, ect).

So, while he won't carry money most of the time, he won't be condemed for accepting money, given it is on behalf of some other cause, and he removes the money quickly, and uses none of it for personal gain.

Does that sound reasonable?  That sounds much like your bag of holding idea, though I would think he would disdain from even that.

On a side note though, if we're fairly religious themed, items that the rest of the party takes would likely be considered going to a good cause, since they other characters are acting in a poius rightiousness.  But that's a slippery slope.  Most games I've been involved with have loose terms of item distribution, mostly "Who can use this best, and who hasn't gotten much lately" and compromises from there.


----------



## Bront (Nov 12, 2005)

BTW, NLF, you might want to take all your homebrew houserules and stick them in a House Rules thread.  Rystil did that, and while he has a lot more custom stuff (No core actualy), you still have 5-10 posts worth of races, background material, house rules, and other interesting info.

Plus, it means it's one post for everything, instead of digging around in 2-3 OOC posts.


----------



## Bront (Nov 12, 2005)

[sblock=Nonlethal Force only!]I'm debating Nymph's Kiss.  It's one of a few scenerios I've come up with so far for the character.  My question though, is how feasable is it for a monk to be raised by the Fey, and what exactly constitutes an "intimate" relationship in the case of this feat?

BTW, I would have e-mailed you, but your e-mail is turned off[/sblock]


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> BTW, NLF, you might want to take all your homebrew houserules and stick them in a House Rules thread.  Rystil did that, and while he has a lot more custom stuff (No core actualy), you still have 5-10 posts worth of races, background material, house rules, and other interesting info.
> 
> Plus, it means it's one post for everything, instead of digging around in 2-3 OOC posts.




Never thought about that.  I think I will do that, thanks for the suggestion.  I had been linking to all the posts in the first post of each OOC thread for each game, but I could still do that and just link to the other post.  And it would make reposting much easier on my behalf - especially since I now have three games going in this homebrew.

As per the E-mail thing, did you try -> Nonlethal_Force at yahoo dot com?  [Obviously put into a real E-mail format.]  I try to check in with that E-mail address every few days.  If you didn't try that one, it should be working.  If that's the one that is turned off ... well ... I'll have to investigate.  The only thing I ask is that if someone sends me an E-mail there and I don't respond in a day or so - drop a note here in the OOC thread to check my E-mail.  I am pretty good about remembering, but lif gets busy from time to time.

And as for the money thing - I do tend to give out gems as treasure more than items anyway, so I would say it would be a fair compromise that the VoP character hold onto the money to be given away whenever possible.  This is going to be a bit complicated by the fact that Quehalost (the kingdom in which this game will take place) is inherently evil.  So it isn't like there will be generous opportunities to give away the goods, but there will be some.  It'll actually add to the RP value of the game by forcing the VoP character to intentionally seek out what good exists.  I am comfortable with having the VoP character accept gems/money to be given away at a later date as long as the money is never used for any party member's benefit.  [Reason being that they should have their own wealth to draw upon.]


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## Bront (Nov 12, 2005)

Great on the money thing, and the House Rules thing.

As for the e-mail thing, I tried sending one through the boards.  You have to check the box that says accept e-mails from public members.

Anyway, I'll drop you a line just so you have mine, but you can obviously see my qestion in the s-block


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

Sounds fair.  If you want to discuss the issue here on the boards, we can continue to use Sblocks if you want.  Or we can do it through E-mail.  Either way works for me.



Everyone:  The thread for the general information is up, although at the time of writing this particular post there is not much to see there.  I will be adding information throughout the day as it comes up, so hopefully in a few hours there will be much more information up regarding this homebrew world.  The link to the general information thread is:

World information for Enigmatica

From now on I will put world information in that thread.  Of course, questions on that information can be addressed here.  If you have a request for me to flesh out any information in that thread, please make the request here and I'll do some editing in my free time.  I hope that thread will be of help - if nothing else it should make it easier to find information regarding the homebrew world.


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## Bront (Nov 12, 2005)

Great, thanks.

Either works fine.  I can't check my e-mail from work, but I can check the boards, but I check it before I head out each night.  I gave you some additional information in the e-mail that may help you ponder the sblocked question.  Take your time, I'll be going to bed shortly.


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## Bront (Nov 12, 2005)

BTW, When I ment houserules, I think it should go in the actual House Rules forum, but we'll see if it gets moved.


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## engrishonly (Nov 12, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Hmmm. Looking through the books to try and find a valid feat that might work.  I'll admit I was having a bit of difficulty.  The closest I could come is the Wild Talent Feat from the XPH.  It makes your character psionic, but unable to use psionic powers.  Essentially, it would open your character up to the psionic chains of feats.
> 
> But, that really isn't all that helpful.  My thought is that if the voices give no benefit - other than an occasional RP moment ... then there is no need to spend a feat on it.
> 
> I suppose one could justify a feat along the lines of Lightning Reflexes - giving some sort of "insight" bonus ... even though I realize that isn't exactly what the Lightning reflexes is for.  Anyway ... just thinking out loud more than anything.




That's not a bad idea... something like Lightning Reflexes for the crunchy parts, and the rest covered in a nebulous RP cloud.

I'll try to firm it up a little more in my mind.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

By the way, I will ask that as you come up with your character background that you locate them coming from the kingdom of Barghost.  I don't really care where, so long as it is in Barghost.  The game will begin with a long post about how the party was called and the game will officially begin with the party (already formed) crossing into the trecherous land of Quehalost.  However, in the Enigmatica Game World Thread (link posted earlier) I will be providing a more detailed list of the cities/towns/major sources of conflict so that you can choose something that fits.

As far as backgrounds go, each character can assume to have been summoned by the grand temple of Pelor in Hipposus (Capital of Barghost).  I'll take it from the gathering at Hipposus until the arrival at Quehalost.  If your backgrounds can provide the general story of your character's life up to receiving that summons, that would be great.  As far as Background length goes, I don't have a limit.  Some people love to write (like myself) and could easily come up with 1000 words or more.  Other people don't and struggle to come up with a paragraph.  I would ask for at least a paragraph ... but beyond that it is up to you.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

JonnyFive:
Couple of questions on your character sheet.  You have the elven Courtblade listed as an exotic weapon.  From which book does that come from?  Forgive me if I am overlooking the obvious answer - but I am under the weather sick and I can't put my finger on it.  The closest I could come is the Elven Thinblade from CW that does similar things except it is only piercing, not piercing/slashing and is only d6 in damage for a small character.  Of course, it would allow shield usage.  Anyway, just curious where it comes from because i cannot find it.

Second, I noticed that the DMG lists the price for your ring at 2,500 gp, not 2,000.

Third, While your ranks for Move Silently and Hide are fine, don't forget that the ACP for full Pate should drop them down to a total modifier of 2 for Hide and -2 for Move Silently.  (Taking in account the MWK bonus since it is enchanted armor)

Fourth, these two are not important matters, but I am curious of two things.  Why did you choose the 100gp pearls instead of the standardized 100gp Amethysts according to the chart?  Second, I noticed the character has no provision for clothing.  Full Plate can get rather chilly!  [Even a set of travelor's clothes is only 1 gp.]  Like I said, though, these last two are not serious issues, jsut curiousities on my behalf.

Fifth, Your spot ranks seem to be a bit off.  The rogue levels can give you a total of 4 ranks.  For a paladin, though, the rest of the ranks in Spot will be cross-class.

Other than these minor changes, the character looks good.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 12, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> JonnyFive:
> Couple of questions on your character sheet.  You have the elven Courtblade listed as an exotic weapon.  From which book does that come from?  Forgive me if I am overlooking the obvious answer - but I am under the weather sick and I can't put my finger on it.  The closest I could come is the Elven Thinblade from CW that does similar things except it is only piercing, not piercing/slashing and is only d6 in damage for a small character.  Of course, it would allow shield usage.  Anyway, just curious where it comes from because i cannot find it.




it is in races of the wild, page 165.



> Second, I noticed that the DMG lists the price for your ring at 2,500 gp, not 2,000.




ahh my bad, i'm gonna pick up some trail rations and waterskins then, along with a backpack



> Third, While your ranks for Move Silently and Hide are fine, don't forget that the ACP for full Pate should drop them down to a total modifier of 2 for Hide and -2 for Move Silently.  (Taking in account the MWK bonus since it is enchanted armor)




yea i did gear last and forgot to go back and fix my ranks, i'll do that now



> Fourth, these two are not important matters, but I am curious of two things.  Why did you choose the 100gp pearls instead of the standardized 100gp Amethysts according to the chart?




old habit of mine.  thw wizard/sorcerer always need's to go back to town and get 100gp pearls for his identify spell, and one of the DM's i played with would make the dungeon 2x as hard when we went back in so after hitting town us players decided that we were gonna start chuggin around as many pearls as we could.



> Second, I noticed the character has no provision for clothing.  Full Plate can get rather chilly!  [Even a set of travelor's clothes is only 1 gp.]  Like I said, though, these last two are not serious issues, jsut curiousities on my behalf.




oops.  amother oversight.



> Fifth, Your spot ranks seem to be a bit off.  The rogue levels can give you a total of 4 ranks.  For a paladin, though, the rest of the ranks in Spot will be cross-class.




that would normaly be correct, but i had to take rogue at first level to avoid the problem of taking it inbetween paladin levels.   then in the PHB on page 59 it talks about multiclassing charecters. under skills it states that if you have a skill from any class, reguardless of the class you are leveling up, its still a class skill.


> Other than these minor changes, the character looks good.




heh thanks, he'll be all fixed up soon




Edit:

just a quick note, your gems listing has emerald listed 2x, once at 100gp and once at 5000gp.   for sake of eas can we cnage the one at 1000gp to fire opal's?


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## Fenris (Nov 12, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> that would normaly be correct, but i had to take rogue at first level to avoid the problem of taking it inbetween paladin levels.   then in the PHB on page 59 it talks about multiclassing charecters. under skills it states that if you have a skill from any class, reguardless of the class you are leveling up, its still a class skill.




I believe that only applies to your max ranks, not skill points.

And I claim Green.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 12, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> I believe that only applies to your max ranks, not skill points.
> 
> And I claim Green.




ah.......... i'm gonna go sit in the corner now. right after i fix my char


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## JonnyFive (Nov 12, 2005)

quick question about my race, do i get my full movement in heavy armor as well or does that just apply to med armor?


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> it is in races of the wild, page 165.




Oh, okay.  Then I hate to do this, but I'm going to have to nix it as it isn't on the approved books for this game.  If you have the complete warrior, there are some weapons in there that you might find appealing.  The maul, for example, is a one handed weapon that does d8 for small characters with the EWP feat.  It can be used 2 handed as a martial weapon.  The warmace might also look nice - a small one does d10 damage.  However, you get a -1 to AC and it either is 2 handed or 1 handed with the EWP feat.  And if you take the EWP(Warmace) that would allow you to use a shield and the racial bonus to AC for using a shield would negate the -1 penalty for using the weapon.  Just offering up suggestions, though, because I nixed your preferred sword.  

Any of the weapons from Complete Adventurer are approved as well.  



			
				JonnyFive said:
			
		

> ahh my bad, i'm gonna pick up some trail rations and waterskins then, along with a backpack




Good enough.




			
				JonnyFive said:
			
		

> old habit of mine.  thw wizard/sorcerer always need's to go back to town and get 100gp pearls for his identify spell, and one of the DM's i played with would make the dungeon 2x as hard when we went back in so after hitting town us players decided that we were gonna start chuggin around as many pearls as we could.




Good enough reason for me.  Like I said, not a problem with the 100 gp pearls, but I thought if you were just using them for money you might as well go amethysts.  But for the old identify spell, that makes perfect sense.



			
				JonnyFive said:
			
		

> just a quick note, your gems listing has emerald listed 2x, once at 100gp and once at 5000gp.   for sake of eas can we cnage the one at 1000gp to fire opal's?




D'oh!  That makes perfect sense.  Nobody has ever caught that one.  I'll be changing that to fire opals as of right now.  Good catch.

As far as movement goes, the movement was supposed to mimic the dwarf's armor restriction but not the encumbrance.  Since the dwarf gets full movement in heavy armor, the Aetos should as well.  As per the category, though, it does not count for load/encumbrance.  This benefit is based on training, not stature ... hence why the benefit extends to armor type, not encumbrance.  Make sense?


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## JonnyFive (Nov 12, 2005)

> As far as movement goes, the movement was supposed to mimic the dwarf's armor restriction but not the encumbrance.  Since the dwarf gets full movement in heavy armor, the Aetos should as well.  As per the category, though, it does not count for load/encumbrance.  This benefit is based on training, not stature ... hence why the benefit extends to armor type, not encumbrance.  Make sense?




makes perfct sence, i was just asking because in the races' traits it only lists medium armor.

for my weapon, i'll replace it when i get home and have acess to my books


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 12, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> makes perfct sence, i was just asking because in the races' traits it only lists medium armor.




Not any more.  That was changed because you asked a bit ago.  If you look now the armor has been clarified.  Fenris, this change would hold true for Troth in Mightier than the Sword as well.



			
				JonnyFive said:
			
		

> for my weapon, i'll replace it when i get home and have acess to my books




No rush.  I'm still getting the information on the land of Enigmatica up.  It'll be a little time before the game starts up anyway.  Thanks for understanding about the restrictions to the books, though.


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## doghead (Nov 12, 2005)

Ney Non Lethal

No problems on your call here. You have a fairly full house as it is.

Good gaming

thotd


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## Fenris (Nov 13, 2005)

NF,
I sent you an email about some char concepts when you get a chance.

Fenris


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 13, 2005)

Bront, Fenris:  Replies should be back in your E-mail boxes.  If you didn't get them, let me know and I'll resend.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 13, 2005)

quick question what is XPH?


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## Bront (Nov 13, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> quick question what is XPH?



Expanded Psionics Handbook

NLF, thanks, I'll check in the morning


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## Fenris (Nov 13, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Bront, Fenris:  Replies should be back in your E-mail boxes.  If you didn't get them, let me know and I'll resend.




Got it. Thanks! I have much to ponder.......................................


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## JonnyFive (Nov 13, 2005)

ahh ok thanks


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## Eluvan (Nov 13, 2005)

Okay, so I've had a little time to work on my character tonight, and the stats are pretty much finished. Couple of questions though:

 - Is the Slayer of Domiel, from the BoED, an acceptable PrC choice for the future? I just realised how deeply I dislike the Consecrated Harrier PrC, and how mechanically unfit it is for the concept I had in mind even if the fluff is a good match.

 - What's the background to our characters at the start of the game? What are we doing in this super-evil kingdom, and did we all come from the same place originally or have we been called in from all over the place?


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## Eluvan (Nov 13, 2005)

*whoops, ignore*


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 13, 2005)

As to the background question, there is a bit of information posted earlier here:

Background Info stuff

If that helps a little bit, cool.  In addition to that, I would say that King Sigfried (See information thread re: post on Barghost) has been advised by the priests of the temple of Pelor in Hipposus to send in a reconnaissance squad to estimate the threat level of the minions in Quehalost.  The purpose of the squad is to enter, observe, and destroy anything and everything that is within their capability - so long as it is evil.  

_Religiously_, it is being touted as Pelor's becon of light shinning into the dark side of the land.  

_Politically_, it is Barghost coming to the aid of its neighboring lands and bolstering them in the fight.  

_Militarily_, it is an advanced party sent in to gather information for a possible massive military action against the evil infiltrating the land.  

Without giving away too many specifics, that is the jist.

Of course, this is not a "typical" scout party beause the dangerous level of fighting will require much more than just stealth.  I don't want people to get the idea that this will be a "hide-and-seek" type game.  More like a "search-and-destoy."  I hope that is music to everyone's ears.  There will be brief periods of "Oh look, a good (or neutral) person struggling against the system and trying to make a difference."  There will be periods of "sure, we can help protect your caravan as you try to deliver medical supplies."  (No, not that literal example.   )  But for the most part it will be, "What ... a demon?  SMITE!"  or even "What ... a wight? SMITE!"  How that happens, of course, is up to the party.  It could be full of "going in with guns blazing" type encounters or it could be "scout 'em out and pick off the stragglers" type encounters.  That depends on the party's style and gifts.  My guess is probably a healthy dose of both types of approaches given the circumstances at hand.

But ... I digress.  I do that alot.  To make a long story short - the party is being summoned to infiltrate Quehalost.  Nobody really knows what they will find and how bad it is.  Demons, undead, and even devils are reported to have crossed from Quehalost into Tongra and Fenneress - although not in the same places and not necessarily woking together.  The party is going to find out information and do what damage they can.  [There might be a few other caveats added along the way, but this is the main jist.]  I suppose in many respects it is not unlike a US Navy Seal mission done D&D style.  Go in, kick butt, collect info, and if you value your life don't get captured or you're coming back against the enemy as a wight ... or vampire ... or tortured soul ... 

Okay, I am now getting carried away.  I hope the above direction of the game is intriguing to the interested players.  I have tried to paint an exciting approach to the Good vs. Evil clash of wills.

Oh .. yeah.  You asked about the Slayier of Domiel PrC.  This game has really gotten me thinking about tweaking the cosmology of the typical Greyhawk world.  Not eliminating things, but regrouping the deities into "families."  If you don't mind the possibility of being a "Slayer of Pelor" or some other related deity (perhaps even Domiel, but unlikely) then certainly the class is approved for future use.  Essentially, nothing about the class would change except the deity venerated.  If you are really into Domiel for some reason, then lets talk.  If you've got a specific reason for wanting to pick up worship of Domiel later on in the game, I am certainly willing to listen.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 13, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> Mmmmph... actually, sorry to be a pain in the ass, but I think I'm going to do a complete reversal and make a sorceror instead.




As long as I am allowed to laugh at you for setting up a whole character concept and then reversing it, you can certainly do what you'd like!   



			
				Eluvan said:
			
		

> Partly because I just find myself inspired to do so, and partly because the party has no arcanist at the moment.




A very valid concern.  If you feel like going with a sorcerer, go right ahead.



			
				Eluvan said:
			
		

> Anyhow, I'm interested in a Drakontos, but the problem I have is the ruling that 'the Heritage is so strongly woven to the Drakontos' personality that they will never act out of their own alignment unless they are under the influence of a magical effect'. To me, a good alignment is meaningless unless there is some conflict, unless it is occassionally challenging to uphold.




Well, you know what they say about never using "never," right.  Its more like me as a DM saying this:

The Drakontos are highly loyal to their heritage dragon and their family respect given to the dragon type is substantial.  [Granted - not quite the same as deity worship]  Of course, everyone has free will to act as they will.  But through family upbringing, culture, training, and everything else that makes a person the way that they are - they can be assumed to go a certain way on a majority of issues.  In other words, if the character is NG ... the character should be assumed to act in most respects as an NG would.  If they lean a little LG in one encounter they might lean a little CG in the next.  But with a Drakontos player I shouldn't have the "So, you wanna change your alignment" conversation with the player.  That is really what I am saying.  The alignment should be constant.  Not a chasm that can never be crossed ... but still a very strong influence in their life.

That help any?


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## Eluvan (Nov 13, 2005)

Well... the first thing to bear in mind is that Domiel isn't, in fact, a deity - he's a Celestial Paragon. It's a somewhat subtle distinction, perhaps, but it could potentially be important in that it's possible (and it's what I'm planning on) for a Slayer of Domiel to worship Pelor. 

 That said... if you have a problem with adding Celestial Paragons to the cosmology of your homebrew, then feel free to just pull rank and say you don't want 'em. I can live with that - we can just make the Slayer of Domiel into a generic 'Righteous Slayer' or somesuch (if you can come up with a better name, please do ).


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 13, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> Well... the first thing to bear in mind is that Domiel isn't, in fact, a deity - he's a Celestial Paragon. It's a somewhat subtle distinction, perhaps, but it could potentially be important in that it's possible (and it's what I'm planning on) for a Slayer of Domiel to worship Pelor.
> 
> That said... if you have a problem with adding Celestial Paragons to the cosmology of your homebrew, then feel free to just pull rank and say you don't want 'em. I can live with that - we can just make the Slayer of Domiel into a generic 'Righteous Slayer' or somesuch (if you can come up with a better name, please do ).




He he he.  This conversation is kinda funny, actually.  You can go with the slayer concept or the arcanist, whichever you would like.  Really.  Take your time and see which one feels better.    

As far as Domiel being a Celestial paragon .. I am aware of that.  The problem is that he is a part of Celestia, and not Elysium.  In a normal game, that really doesn't matter so much as planar thought doesn't really come into play.  But with a group focused on religion as a binding issue, I want to make sure I do planar things that make sense.  If paragon worship would be what you are after, is there a paragon of Elysium that would suffice?  Perhaps Talsid, Sathia, Manath, Vhara, Kharash, or Bharrai?  Because if paragon worship is what you are after and you are interested in joining Pelor to someone - in my mind it would make sense to join Pelor with either Talsid or one of the five companions.

Again, though, a decision need not be cemented if the paragon worship isn't part of the character concept yet... let's continue to talk.  





On a side note ... ever wonder why they are all called celestial paragons when some of them are not from celestia?


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## Eluvan (Nov 13, 2005)

Heh... darn, I thought I managed to slip that little wavering about the arcanist past you... I edited out the post after changing my mind once more, but obviously you'd already seen it.   

  I'll bear the drakontos in mind, anyway - but I lost some interest after I realised that I would want to play an elemental savant in that case, and that sorcerors don't make great elemental savants really since they have to take a full-round action every time they want to use an Energy Substituted spell. 

 The paragon thing is interesting to me, because whilst I agree that planar cosmology isn't something you'd expect to come up in the typical game... it's something I do envisage coming up in this game, and I certainly hope it does because personally I find it fascinating. I really would like to get quite deeply into philosophical/theological issues in this game, and the implications of worshipping Pelor, an Elysian power, and yet also revering Domiel, a Celestial power, are interesting to me. Basically it just highlights the theological implications that are already inherent in the idea of a Lawful Good character worshipping a Neutral Good deity.

 I'm not proposing that Domiel and Pelor be tied together in a cosmological sense; that wouldn't make that much sense. They'd likely be on pretty decent terms, but not part of the same 'family'. But to my character, they are the two powers that inspire him to worship/reverence, and the fact that Domiel would likely be allied to Hieronious rather than Pelor doesn't change that.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 13, 2005)

I can buy that rationale ... I allow players to rever more than one god, although typically there is one "major" and the rest are more minor - but that seems to agree with what you are talking about.

And I do hope that cosmology will play a signifcant role in this game as well.  Not necessarily planar travel - although it could if the party wants to go in that direction - but cosmological understandings of what it means to be "good" as opposed to just "moral" or "lawful."

As far as the LG worshipping an NG god ... I have a feeling you might not be alone in the whole "I am one step away from my deities alignment" conundrum.  It should provide interesting RP ... for while all will worship Pelor, I imagine all will revere different aspects of Pelor.  And, quite possibly like your character, they might even revere a minor deity or a paragon.  I think that is completely fair game for this RP.  Certainly not a requirement by any means - but it is a unique possibility.  And if people start throwing around divine (or even arcane) spells like a rich kid throwing loose change at a wishing well ... there could be a number of "deities" invoked in a single round of combat!  There's something you don't see every day!

Now, on that note.  Is there a website that anyone is familiar with where it lists deities and their "home planes?"  I'd realy be interested in that if I could get my hands on it.  I can patch together the core 3.5 deities ... and of course the celestial paragons are all listed in the BoED so I can pull those together pretty easily.  I gues I am mostly looking for the deities like Bahamut, Tiamat (although I guess I know where these two are), Rao, Pholtus, and the rest of the CD additions.  

And I admit I am using the word "deities" loosely here - by deities I am including greater, intermediate, lesser, demi-god, and celestial paragon.  If there is a list that anyone is aware of that includes this information, please post the link if you can!  Thanks!


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## Eluvan (Nov 13, 2005)

Yay! Glad to see we've reached an understanding. Also, I'm now really excited about this game. I think we're on the same page, so it should be one hell of a lot of fun. 

 Watch this space for a character - though considering these questions took up most of my time tonight, so I still don't have a sheet done.


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## Bront (Nov 14, 2005)

OK, I think I have the concept set 

I'll probably have something up tomorrow, when I'm a bit more awake.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 14, 2005)

Okay, updating the character Sheet process here:

JonnyFive:  Character sheet looks good.  Although I do have two questions - but this time botha re in your favor.    I notice your ranks in Hide and Move Silently reflect a -7 ACP.  I believe it should be -6.  From the enchanted fullplate you should get a -5 and from the enchanted shield you should get a -1.  Unless I missed something, that should make it a -6 total, which means you over compensated for the ACP.  But, at least this time the things are in your favor!  Also - when you are doing up your background, don't forget simple things like physical description - hair, eyes, height, age, etc...  But you probably know all that stuff.

Engrishonly:  So far so good.  Don't forget things like AC, Init, etc.  And let me know once you settle in on that 3rd level feat so I can update my records.

Eluvan:  When you do up your character sheet, you can go ahead and put it straight into the RG if you want.  Of course, you can put it here first if that's how you do it ... doesn't matter to me.  I just wanted to make sure you were aware that the RG thread is infact up.

Edit:  Oh, and tommorrow evening I am going to change the title of this thread to "Elysium Squad OOC" since it appears that the wilderness game is not going to need this space.  No sense making another thread for the forum to keep track of.  I'd change it now, but I want everyone to get a chance to know about it in case they haven't linked to it yet.  That way everyone is aware of the coming change in thread title.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 14, 2005)

aye, it should be a -6  welp thats fixed and i'm still working on the backround for my guy.  a question though, what are common eye/hair/skin colors for my race?


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## engrishonly (Nov 14, 2005)

I think I will go with Mounted Combat, and buy a Heavy Warhorse. I'm not sure if there will be much opportunity to use it... and if there's to be a lot of dungeon exploration, maybe the Horse should be left at home (who would leave a poor horse outside in the middle of a hellhole?), but I think it would be cool to have.

Still have a ways to go on my character... I'm adding the actual stats & stuff as I go. I'm just trying to balance character ideas with the nuts & bolts of doing a 3.5e character 

As for Greyhawk Deities... there's the official RPGA Living Greyhawk list:
http://www.wizards.com/rpga/downloads/LG_Deities.zip
I've seen other sites with more useful tables & lists, but nothing "official"... and the RPGA is probably what everyone can more-or-less agree on as "official".

For home planes of the Deities... I don't quite see that in the Living Greyhawk list. I've used this site before, and it has planar info on some of the Greyhawk deities:
http://www.cmc.net/~rtaylor/greyhawk/gods/lists/
Every Greyhawk deity/demigod does not have his/her own listing there, however...


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## Bront (Nov 14, 2005)

Quick question.  Does Fist of the Heavans apply to any Stunning Fist use (Such as the alternate uses in the Complete Warrior)? Or only specificly the Stunning Fist feat?  Given you need a feat for the alternate uses, I would think so, but I wanted to check.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 14, 2005)

Bront: The way I am reading Stunning Fist and Fist of the Heavens, I think it means that if you declare one of the monks Stunning Fist attempts for that day, the DC is increased by 2 and on a fail the opponent staggered following the round it is stunned.

Without knowing exactly which other ways you are planning to go with the stunning attempt, it is hard for me to say for the rest.  But, for example, if you had the Ascetic Rogue feat from the CAd I would imagine the DC boosts would stack.  Because one DC boost is from a divine source, the other is from it being sneaky (rogue source).  Of course, to gain this benefit you would need to be in a position to be able to sneak attack.  I realize DCs don't necessarily follow the "stacking rules" quite the same as saves, AC, and other things, but that ruling makes sense to me.  Unless, of course, it violates the rrules somewhere.  But the actual feat descriptions don't say anything about stacking.

Regarding CW stuff - such as feats - I have no problem with the Fist of the Heavens working in conjunction with Rapid Stunning, Pain touch (although in this case the nauseated and staggered rounds would overlap and thus not be as great of an advantage), Fists of Iron (although this is pointless because you don't really stun and thus there would be no round after the stun), Freezing the Lifeblood (but the rounds overlap so not a ton of helpfulness), Extra Stunning, and Axiomatic Strike (although this too would be useless because it doesn't actually stun the opponent so therefore wouldn't be a round after the stun.  So, in summary, I guess there is the best answer.  Yes, I will allow them to be used, but in my mind any effect measured in rounds overlap.  So if two feats say "in the round after the stunning attempt ___ happens" these effects would both happen simultaneously.  In game mechanic terms ... they would overlap.  For example, it would not be the case where Pain Touch and Fist of the Heavens could both be used and the stun effect would take place, then the nauseated, then the staggered.  You can't get an additional round is what I am saying.  Both feats would be put into practice in the round the feat says it should.

I don't know if this answers your question or not ... 

JonnyFive:  Other than the skin being pale and fair, their physical desription is up to you.  Of course, normal colors to living creatures ... so nothing like deep prurple or fire engine red ... but it would be like picking out a description for a human with the limitation that skin/hair is pale and fine.

Engrishonly:  The only thought I had about the warhorse is that it might also depend upon the rest of the party.  If nobody else is bringing a mount ... then yours will become pretty useless by default.  Of course, once a paladin gets the special mount feature that changes a little.  Now, that doesn't impact the feat choice, just on whether you bring the mount or leave it home.  And you are right.  Many places the party will be headed will not be safe for a horse to be tied up outside without some form of protection.

Oh, and thanks for the sites!


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## Eluvan (Nov 14, 2005)

Right. I think my indecisiveness is at an end. I'm going for a drakontos sorceror, LG, Silver bloodline, aiming for the Exalted Arcanist PrC if that gets the ok by you. Oh, one thing you might want to clarify if we're using the BoED as a source book: can Clerics cast Sanctified spells spontaneously the way it says they can in the book? Just wanted to check because it always seemed like kind of a big change to the core rules to me, giving clerics a significant boost.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 14, 2005)

ok NLF i was just wondering if there was a "common" trait for hair/skin/eyes, kinda like say the asian cultures generaly dont have blonds (just using them as a referance cause i cant think of any others, no offence ment to anybody)


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## engrishonly (Nov 14, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Engrishonly:  The only thought I had about the warhorse is that it might also depend upon the rest of the party.  If nobody else is bringing a mount ... then yours will become pretty useless by default.  Of course, once a paladin gets the special mount feature that changes a little.  Now, that doesn't impact the feat choice, just on whether you bring the mount or leave it home.  And you are right.  Many places the party will be headed will not be safe for a horse to be tied up outside without some form of protection.




Okay... maybe I'll change that level 3 feat again. I wouldn't want to leave a poor horse in the middle of nowhere, and I don't think my character would either. I can always take Mounted Combat down the line with a Fighter bonus feat, anyway.

I was just looking at D&D books at Border's (deciding if I wanted to get BoED), and Heroes of Battle caught my eye... it's EXACTLY what I was looking for as I'm putting together ideas for an Eberron campaign. So that meant BoED got kicked down the "like to have" list, and Heroes of Battle got bumped way up.

Anyway, I'll swap Mounted Combat for Iron Will... which is a prereq for the Legendary Leader PrC from Heroes of Battle (not that this character will necessarily go there, but I am basically laying the groundwork in case I steal this character for my Eberron game).


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 14, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> Anyway, I'll swap Mounted Combat for Iron Will... which is a prereq for the Legendary Leader PrC from Heroes of Battle




Works for me ... only just remember that this character won't be able to go there because its not an approved book.  But Iron Will is a fine feat to take.  Between that and the Lightning Reflexes feat ... your character should have decent all around saves.  I don't say great because WILL and REFL are still poor in category.  But those feats will help.

Eluvan: You know, that has honestly never come up in any of my games.  Even games in which I myself have played clerics.  I've always just played good clerics can cast "cure" spells spontaneously and that is it.  I agree with you.  The cleric is already a powerful character, allowing them to spontaneously cast any sanctified spell is a shift in power even more.

I'll add that to the "official" Houserule thread.  I'll probably have a single post about it when they come up ingame or if anyone thinks about them ahead of time.  

As for Exhalted Arcanist, that too is approved.  I'll be interested to see how your character works out for you.

As for other house rules ... I don't typically have many.  Bront, Fenris - you guys have played with me for a few months online here, can you think of any others that have come up?


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## Bront (Nov 14, 2005)

NLF, what I mean, is, for example, there is a feat that allows you to drop the strength of your opponent by 6 in leau of a stunning fist attack (the attack does no damage, but -6 str for one minute) and has a DC Save.  Since it requires stunning fist, would Fist of the Heavans effect that DC?  (There are others, that's just the one I can think off off the top of my head)


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## Bront (Nov 14, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> As for other house rules ... I don't typically have many.  Bront, Fenris - you guys have played with me for a few months online here, can you think of any others that have come up?



Not that I can think of.  You general make the rolls (Quite helpfull) in combat, and even out of combat.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 14, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> NLF, what I mean, is, for example, there is a feat that allows you to drop the strength of your opponent by 6 in leau of a stunning fist attack (the attack does no damage, but -6 str for one minute) and has a DC Save.  Since it requires stunning fist, would Fist of the Heavans effect that DC?  (There are others, that's just the one I can think off off the top of my head)




Ah, the DC issue.  This one I am a bit torn on.  In truth I lean towards allowing it - because it does require additional feats to make it work.  So, at the price of expending a feat, the DC increases by two.  You can do the same with a spell, except the DC only increases by one ... but this feat is limited to only evil opponents which means that it has a limitation on effectiveness.  So, I lean towards allowing this feat to boost the DC of a Stunning Fist attack by two, regardless of the form of the attack.  The only place where I have an issue is if the Stunning Fist takes a completely different form (as in the Fist of Iron feat from CW).  Of course, this is a non-issue because that particular feat doesn't have a DC save listed.  But, in these cases the stagger affect already doesn't count.

Okay, now that I have put out my reasoning, here is how it makes sense to me:

For any stunning fist attack/feat _used in conjunction with Fist of Heavens_ from BoED: 
*A) * The use of Fist of the Heavens does increase the DC by 2 as long as the opponent is evil and as long as there is no text within the additional feat in question that specificly indicates that it should not increase the DC.  *B)* For feats that change the stunning fist into an alternate effect where there is no round in which the opponent is stunned, the DC of the new effect does increase by 2 (if applicable) but there is no round in which the opponent is staggered since there is no round in which the opponent is stunned. (See Fists of Iron, CW, for example)  *C)* If the feat combination does produce an additional effect to being stunned in subsequent rounds, then the opponent is staggered in the second round (as per Fist of the Heavens) in addition to any other effect prescribed by the other feat. (See Pain Touch, CW, for example)

Does that clarify, Bront?  If that makes it clear, I'll go ahead and add it to the Houserule page just so that it is recorded.


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## Bront (Nov 14, 2005)

Perfect, that makes sense, and is what I felt was good.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 15, 2005)

Alright, let's update the character generation process.  I think I have the majority of pertinent information up in the Enigmatica World thread.  If you are looking for places/names to hang your characters background on, you should find ample places to do so in there.  Of course, I didn't post all the detailed info because I only had so much time and I wanted to get the basics out first and flesh out the rest.  Remember, all I really ask is that you locate your character as being a part of Barghost and put them in a position where they would have been able to receive a summons from the main Temple of Pelor in Hipposus, Barghost's capitol.  As long as that stated condition is met, we should be able to go from there with my first IC post when we are to that time.

So, let's talk players:  

*Almost done:* I feel like I have a really good understanding of Engrishonly and JonnyFive's characters.  

*Good so far:* Eluvan, Bront, and Fenris - our discussions here and via E-mail have also been progressing along quite well.  I feel like I know the general direction the character is going to head.  How are we doing on the actual putting together of the stats?

*Interested but not heard from for a few days:* Ferrix and Eonthar - still out there?  Still interested?  If you are, the spots are still here and I'm just curious how the character generation process is proceding.

As of what I know now, I think this is where people are:

Eonthar - Paladin/Sorcerer, probably drakontos

Ferrix - Female Cleric of Pelor, race unknown as of yet

Engrishonly - Human Fighter

Eluvan - Drakontos Sorcerer headed for Exhalted Arcanist

JonnyFive - Aetos/Paladin-Rogue (Headed for Shadowbane Inquisitor)

Bront - Human Monk 

Fenris - Looking toward the scout or rogue type character, but still not 100% decided.

As I look towards the calander for a potential start date, I wonder what might be good.  I am thiking about THUR, unless that is too soon.  That would give people a few more days to work on their characters.  If that is too soon, however, I'm certainly flexible.  I pick Thursday because I didn't really want to start up on FRI, SAT, or SUN because posting is often a little light on the weekend.  So I could go MON or TUES of next week.  Only problem with that is since I live in the US, am married, and have a wife that wants me to go visit the family over Thanksgiving ... I'll likely be able to post only sporadically THUR or FRI of next week.  So we'd start the game for a day and then the DM would be gone for a few days.  Which is no big deal as long as everyone else is cool with that.  Of course, if we wait until after Thanksgiving we're all the way out to a week from this coming MON.  Again, that's fine, too, if people want to wait that long.  I just don't want people to lose interest having spent all this fresh creative energy in getting a concept together.  So, having read that - tell me when you all would like to start.  I'll go with group concensus on this one.  I am prety flexible.


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## Eonthar (Nov 15, 2005)

I am still here, and I am still interested. I am still looking at a Drakontos Paladin / Sorcerer, either going to choose Gold or Silver Dragon as my heritage, but have not made the final decision yet. I am pretty sure that I will be going for the Eldritch Knight Prestige Class (even though I won't get there until 9th level  :\ ).

I will be doing most of the character building tomorrow, and should be able to post something by the end of the day in the Rogue's Gallery.


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## Bront (Nov 15, 2005)

I have all the stats done, just need to put them in a sheet.  Been distracted with M&M 2.0, but I'll have it done sometime tomorow most likely.


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## Ferrix (Nov 15, 2005)

I've just been away all weekend and I have an exam tomorrow.  Will get to her soon, she's most likely human.

You can see an old version of her here.


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## JonnyFive (Nov 15, 2005)

ok here is my BR for Geeo, NLF if it grossly violates any of yer homebrew's race's indentity (example a LG drow) let me know and i'll fix it

" Name?" the cleric asked
"Geeo vec-Gooa, Gooa Vec-Zuur, Zuur Vec-Oolo, Oolo Vec-Shee, Shee Vec-Puro...." Stated the Aetos.  The cleric sighed.  he hated the fact that the Aetos simply had to list their geneology back as far as they could remember it. " Hrm" the cleric finaly running out of what little patience he had, cutting the aetos off " What section are you interestid in, Geeo?".  "I want to join the Holy Warriors![color]" stated Geeo hopefuly.  
"Age?" the cleric asked. "18 winters" Geeo replyed. " Your a bit young to be away from home, arn't you?" the cleric asked, arching an eyebrow. he personaly had never seen a single Aetos under the age of 70. "Not at all, its perfictly normal for us" was what Geeo ment to say. what came out was "Yes it's very rare to see one of my age away from home"
From the shocked look on the little Aetos face, the cleric could tell that he had said something he had not ment to. Bending over to the aetos, the cleric placed a firm hand on his shoulder. " Little one, you should go home, it is not your time to join the ranks of Pelor's holy warriors" "NO, I will not go home!" shouted geeo "My family has broken their honor and i must restore it!"  The cleric was shook by the aetos's vehmnence. An Aetos abandining his honor, no wonder the little one wanted to join the ranks. " Very well little one, we shall see if you are fit for the ranks" the cleric stated as he reached for his parchment to record the Aetos name on the rank's of recruits.

oh yea, Geeo stands 3'0" tall and weighs in at a whooping 38lb, he has Blond hair and brown eyes. He is currently 28 (10years after this story)


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 15, 2005)

Sounds fine, JonnyFive.  You might want to go back and check and make sure you have all your [/Color] tags in the right spot.  But that is a very minor concern.  The rest of it sounds good, honor-driven is a very legitimate motivation for an Aetos.

Thanks for checking back in Ferrix and Eonthar.  I had hoped I hadn't scared you aware so early!   Ferrix, good luck on your exam.  Any topic of interest?


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## engrishonly (Nov 15, 2005)

Next week is kind of rough for me too... big exam on Monday. I am also married, and probably will be out of town and/or unavailable for much of the U.S. Thanksgiving period.

I really have no problem waiting until after Thanksgiving because I have a bunch to do, and I can simply tinker with my character between now & then... but I can't speak for anyone else in the group.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 15, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> I really have no problem waiting until after Thanksgiving because I have a bunch to do, and I can simply tinker with my character between now & then... but I can't speak for anyone else in the group.




Thanks for your input.  Rest assured, even if the rest of the group wants to start quickly, there will be a lull towards the end of next week.


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## Bront (Nov 15, 2005)

Ok, I got most of the other stuff out of the way, so I should start work on moving him to a character sheet soon.  I think you'll enjoy what I do with him


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 15, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I think you'll enjoy what I do with him




Of that, I have little doubt.  

But, you know ... with all the threads at Enworld about how underpowered the monk and the VoP feat is ... I have little to worry about!


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## Bront (Nov 15, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Of that, I have little doubt.
> 
> But, you know ... with all the threads at Enworld about how underpowered the monk and the VoP feat is ... I have little to worry about!



Not everything is combat, and a fun character isn't always a powerful one.  Kit's actualy a good example


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## Bront (Nov 15, 2005)

K, posted what I have so far.  Looking pretty good, just need to fill out the fluff (Background, personality, appearance, name, you know, the good stuff).  I have it outlined in my head, so shouldn't take too long once I get too it.  Should be done tonight.


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## Ferrix (Nov 15, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Thanks for checking back in Ferrix and Eonthar.  I had hoped I hadn't scared you aware so early!   Ferrix, good luck on your exam.  Any topic of interest?




Liebniz and Spinoza, two philosophers.

Also, I claim the "yellow for my color" if that's alright.


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## Fenris (Nov 15, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Liebniz and Spinoza, two philosophers.




Trade ya for the paper I have to write, pardon. Paper_s_


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## Ferrix (Nov 15, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Trade ya for the paper I have to write, pardon. Paper_s_




That's only one of my classes.  Thankfully all I'm taking now are some pre-reqs to finish up my undergrad, I've done semesters where I've had four 400 (senior level) level classes each with incredibly lengthy papers to do.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 15, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> That's only one of my classes.  Thankfully all I'm taking now are some pre-reqs to finish up my undergrad, I've done semesters where I've had four 400 (senior level) level classes each with incredibly lengthy papers to do.




Aye ... sounds like my Master's degree work.  In the three years of classes for my Masters, I had 2 classes in which all the grades weren't by way of papers/presentations.  Higher level classes are more interested in getting you to apply what you know rather than proving you know the facts.  And while its great to not ever have to worry about cramming for tests ... sometimes it really sucks having to read 1600 pages per week and write about 80-100 typed pages worth of papers per semester.

But ... now that I am done and I have the degree ... Woo-Hoo!  Never again!  Well, unless I go for that Ph.D.  But not for many years, I tell ya.  Many years!  (I have to pay off my debt first....)

...

Anyway, thanks, Bront.  I'll look at it when I have a little more time in a few hours.  And you are right - not everything is combat.  But I was also joking with the comment about the power level of monks and VoP characters anyway.  I've always thought that the power level of a character had more to do with the builder than the class.  And hidden in there somewhere is a compliment - I'm sure of it!


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## Eluvan (Nov 15, 2005)

A later start might be good for me, too - like everyone else, apparently, I have essays to write. First one's on the the triumph of New Liberalism in British Government, 1890-1914. Anyone wanna trade for that one?


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## Fenris (Nov 16, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> A later start might be good for me, too - like everyone else, apparently, I have essays to write. First one's on the the triumph of New Liberalism in British Government, 1890-1914. Anyone wanna trade for that one?




Sure,
You can pick! I have:

Leucine aminopeptidase regulates defense and wound signaling downstream of jasmonic acid 

or

Leucine aminopeptidase potentiates but does not activate wound signaling

 



			
				Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, unless I go for that Ph.D. But not for many years, I tell ya. Many years! (I have to pay off my debt first....)




Trust me. DON'T!


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## JonnyFive (Nov 16, 2005)

Fenris, thanks for the headache.... i tried to pronounce thouse...... words..... yea anyway, i'm good for whenever you want to start NLF


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 16, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Leucine aminopeptidase regulates defense and wound signaling downstream of jasmonic acid
> 
> or
> 
> Leucine aminopeptidase potentiates but does not activate wound signaling




My wife says those actually sound like pretty decent papers to write.  All I can figure is something about the white blood cells and how your body knows how to start the healing process?

Anyway ... my wife is actually going for her Ph.D is ancient Roman History with a minor in Medival England and Forensic Anthropolgy.

I tell people she is going to be some weird genetic cross between Indiana Jones and Gill Grissom (CSI).


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## Bront (Nov 16, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> My wife says those actually sound like pretty decent papers to write.  All I can figure is something about the white blood cells and how your body knows how to start the healing process?
> 
> Anyway ... my wife is actually going for her Ph.D is ancient Roman History with a minor in Medival England and Forensic Anthropolgy.
> 
> I tell people she is going to be some weird genetic cross between Indiana Jones and Gill Grissom (CSI).



CSI: Pompei?


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## Fenris (Nov 16, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> My wife says those actually sound like pretty decent papers to write.  All I can figure is something about the white blood cells and how your body knows how to start the healing process?
> 
> Anyway ... my wife is actually going for her Ph.D is ancient Roman History with a minor in Medival England and Forensic Anthropolgy.
> 
> I tell people she is going to be some weird genetic cross between Indiana Jones and Gill Grissom (CSI).





Give your wife my sympathies and condolences   

As for mine, close, but there are no white blood cells in plants.


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## Bront (Nov 16, 2005)

Ok, Background up, only minor fluff left, like appearance, personality, and things like hight, weight, and age, which should be easy.

Let me know what you think NLF.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 16, 2005)

Thanks Bront.  I didn't get to itlast night, I'll get to it now when I log of the internet.

And Fenris ... sorry.  But I am a layman in medical terms.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 16, 2005)

Bront - got a chance to take a look over the character.  Everything looks good, except two simple questions.  1 - I think you forgot the Tumble synergy to Balance.  You got the rest of the synergies, though.  2 - I noticed you left out the +2 to the CHA related checks from feat we discussed.  Any reason why?  The background looks good ... like you said just the simple things left to flesh out.  But ... nice build.  Any build that lets you get away with that many 1st level feats is indeed nice (Even if 2 of them are built into the class).


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 16, 2005)

Eonthar - just got a chance to look at your character sheet as well.  Looks pretty good, as long as I am remembering correctly that your character started out pladin and then went sorcerer.  If I have that backwards, then some of your skill ranks are also backwards.  Now as for feat choices from the BoED.  It depends on where you plan on going witht he rest of the character.  Here's a few suggestions.  I realize that being a sorcerer might not be great for the metamagics, but I'll include them anyway:

Consecrate spell: Adds good descriptor to a spell, spell increases 1 level.  Additionally, half the damage is from a divine source and thus cannot be reduced by resistance or immunities.

Purify Spell: Adds good descriptor to the spell.  Furthermore, neutral creatures take 1/2 damage (1/4 with save) while good creatures take no damage.  Evil outsiders take extra damage in that the damage die for the spell is increased by one using the standard increase. (d6 becomes d8, d8 becomes 2d6, etc).  For example ... A 7th level wizard who casts a purified lightning bolt does 7d6 damage to evil creatures, half that to neutral creatures, no damage to good creatures, and 7d8 damage to evil outsiders.  This uses one spell slot higher.

Hands of a Healer: Increases CHA by 2 for the purpose of Lay on Hands ability

Spell Focus (Good): DCs for Good spells cast increase by 2.

Of course, there are the Vow feats, but outside of Vow of Poverty I don't think any would benefit you.  And to be honest, I'm not sure Vow of Poverty would be worth it for your character except for the AC boost.  But, Vow of Poverty would require you to take Sacred Vow first ... then Vow of Poverty.  So you would really need to free up 2 slots.

There is one feat you might want to keep in mind for later use:
Celestial Familiar: allows the character to call a celestial version of any creature that can normally be called as a familiar.  To acquire a Celestial Familiar you must be at least 3rd spellcaster level and able to call a new familiar.  At 7th level you can instead call a Coure Eladrin, a Lantern Archon, or a Musteval guardinal ... depending on alignment of course.  For LG, that would be the archon.  Of course, this is only really useful if you are a player that makes use of the familiar aspect of the spellcasting class.


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## Eluvan (Nov 16, 2005)

For the record - Spell Focus (Good) should presumably only give a +1 increase to DC in 3.5, in line with the other spell focus feats. Also, I'm plannign on taking the Celestial Familiar feat with my character, though that shouldn't necessarily affect Eonthar's choices.


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## Eonthar (Nov 17, 2005)

I did indeed take the Paladin levels first, followed up by the Sorcerer levels. Of course, this means that I will not be able to take any more levels in Paladin.

Thanks for the information on the feats. I don't think any of them are really worth it for my character, except the Celestial Familiar, but I will have to wait until 6th Character Level to take that. So, I think that I will concentrate on the Draconic Heritage feats.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> For the record - Spell Focus (Good) should presumably only give a +1 increase to DC in 3.5, in line with the other spell focus feats.




I thought that when I typed it in ... but the book said 2.  I can't find BoED errata on the wizards site, though.  Also, I am completely unfamiliar with 3.0.  [Jumped straight from 2e to 3.5]  Was Spell Focus a +2 in 3.0?  Because if that's the case, then clearly if Spell Focus was minimized to a +1 in 3.5 that it should be the same for Spell Focus (Good).  The other thing I was thinking about is if it is at a +2 to counteract something specific in the BoVD - which I do not own.

And as far as the celestial familiar, Eluvan, of course that is approved.  I'll let you do up the stat block of your own familiar, if there even was a question about that.  The rules for familiar creation are all pretty standard anyway as HP is based off of master .. etc.  So as you are coming up with your character go ahead and do the familiar as well.  [Unless, of course, the character doesn't have the familiar and that is something that needs to be worked into the game in the future.]


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## Bront (Nov 17, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Bront - got a chance to take a look over the character.  Everything looks good, except two simple questions.  1 - I think you forgot the Tumble synergy to Balance.  You got the rest of the synergies, though.  2 - I noticed you left out the +2 to the CHA related checks from feat we discussed.  Any reason why?  The background looks good ... like you said just the simple things left to flesh out.  But ... nice build.  Any build that lets you get away with that many 1st level feats is indeed nice (Even if 2 of them are built into the class).



1) Doh!
2) Doh!

I missed the 1st one when browsing the SRD, the second one I just forgot.  I'll get it fixed fairly quickly.

I wanted the background to flow naturaly, and his feats flow from that, and I think they do.  The sun's power gives life and light to the world, and his goal is to do the same.  Just don't ask him any tough questions 

I'll get it fixed soon, and finish the minor stuff as needed.


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## Bront (Nov 17, 2005)

FYI - There's something odd with those sblocked tables, as they move the entire scroll around when I open them.  I wonder if it's just because of the code block in them.

Might work better if you don't sblock them, simply bold and underline the domains, and use 1 code block.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I wanted the background to flow naturaly, and his feats flow from that, and I think they do.  The sun's power gives life and light to the world, and his goal is to do the same.  *Just don't ask him any tough questions*




_emphasis mine_

Hey ... one never said you have to be a brainchild in order to be a nice person!  

But seriously, the background does give rise to the feats.  And with some feats (like Lightning Reflexes or Open Mind) that isn't an issue because that is more or less a "born trait" when taken at early levels.  But with the feats you took early they are unique enough to lend to an explanation.  But it shouldn't surprise you to hear me agree with you, I usually build my backgrounds starting with feats, then I weave in some stuff based on skills, and if a fighter-type I then go back and add a few flavor things about weapons.  That isn't necessarily the only way to do it, but it is the way that I use.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> FYI - There's something odd with those sblocked tables, as they move the entire scroll around when I open them.  I wonder if it's just because of the code block in them.
> 
> Might work better if you don't sblock them, simply bold and underline the domains, and use 1 code block.




That's weird .. works fine on my end.  But if it is causing people trouble I can take them out of Sblocks.  I was just trying to conserve space.  Thanks for letting me know.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Just so everyone knows ... the post Bront and I are discussing is the Enigmatica World Info Thread.  I put up the info on families of deities tonight.  (Is the code working better now?)  I didn't have enough time yet to get to the Celestial Paragons (for those of you without the BoED) ... but that is no big deal.  That's mostly just flavor stuff.  Anyone who is into cosmology analysis I'd be curious to see your interpretation of how I divided the deities up.  It wasn't as clean as I'd have liked ... but I think there is at least some reasonable rationale for the choices I made.

I should say ... please don't get swamped by the info.  That thread isn't there to be read from top to bottom.  It is there so if in the middle of gameplay you might have a question about the gameworld so you can try there first.  But I don't expect everyone to be interested in every post.  It is just flavor text, text to help make the gameworld more real.  It is also there to help people understand how I am approaching the world construction.  Often with a homebrew, that is significant because the world is in my head - not like Greyhawk or the Realms that many people are familiar with.  But please don't think that you have to know all the stuff that is in that thread!  Just read what interests you and you think your character might know.

For those really into cosmologies ... I plan on putting up my "cosmology wheel" if I can figure out how to draw 3D pics on my 2D computer screen.  If I can, look for that as another addition!  [Yes, you may laugh and point at me for being excited about this!]


----------



## Bront (Nov 17, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> That's weird .. works fine on my end.  But if it is causing people trouble I can take them out of Sblocks.  I was just trying to conserve space.  Thanks for letting me know.



That looks good, and uses about the same space actualy.

You could probably put them all in one code block to save a little space though.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> That looks good, and uses about the same space actualy.
> 
> You could probably put them all in one code block to save a little space though.




I tried that, and didn't like the look as much.  It was a bit too jumbled together.  I ended up just spacing them apart so they were easier to read .. and by that time I might as well just keep them in code blocks.  But thanks for the thought!


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 17, 2005)

Exam went well...

I'll try to take some time friday to put up a character.

Also, Spell Focus (Good, Evil, Lawful, Chaotic) are updated in Complete Divine to +1 to DC's.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 17, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> I thought that when I typed it in ... but the book said 2.  I can't find BoED errata on the wizards site, though.  Also, I am completely unfamiliar with 3.0.  [Jumped straight from 2e to 3.5]  Was Spell Focus a +2 in 3.0?  Because if that's the case, then clearly if Spell Focus was minimized to a +1 in 3.5 that it should be the same for Spell Focus (Good).  The other thing I was thinking about is if it is at a +2 to counteract something specific in the BoVD - which I do not own.
> 
> And as far as the celestial familiar, Eluvan, of course that is approved.  I'll let you do up the stat block of your own familiar, if there even was a question about that.  The rules for familiar creation are all pretty standard anyway as HP is based off of master .. etc.  So as you are coming up with your character go ahead and do the familiar as well.  [Unless, of course, the character doesn't have the familiar and that is something that needs to be worked into the game in the future.]




 Yup, 3.0 Spell Focus feats are +2. As Ferrix confirmed, it should be +1 in 3.5, and as of Complete Divine that's official. 

 Regarding the familiar... I won't be taking the feat for a while yet, cos I want a Lantern Archon and, coveniently enough, if all goes to plan I'll be getting a bonus Exalted feat from the Exalted Arcanist PrC around about the required level 7 to get one. So for now my character will have no familiar. 

 Haven't had a chance yet to look over the cosmological info you put up, but I'm going to do so now. I'll get back to you with some feedback!


----------



## engrishonly (Nov 17, 2005)

I just had a test today, and have a huge exam on Monday... so I'll probably drink now & maybe tinker with my character tomorrow since I know I have some time to work on it.

I'll be looking over the background info for the setting... IMO, better to have too much as long as I can muck around in it with my character's background. Gives me more flavor to spice up my character's psychology


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 17, 2005)

Cool, I like it. 

 It also brought Bahamut to my attention as a deity probably quite closely allied with Pelor. Which is cool, since my character undoubtedly has plenty of love for Bahamut.

 The only couple of things I might quibble with are the placing of St. Cuthbert in the family of Domination (I would argue his attitude is closer to Righteousness) and the placement of Boccob in the family of Spontaneous Magic - I'm not sure what reccomends that rather than Organized Magic. 

 Otherwise it's all good, and it gives me plenty to get excited about.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> Cool, I like it.




I am glad.  It took several attempts.  I tried to do it using the planes .. but that was a major headache.  Then I tried doing something by alignment and that was also a headache.  Then I tried to do it by "One greater diety attached to so many intermediate, lesser, and deimigods."  That was a monstrous mistake!  Finally i just sat down and did it by schools and portfolis.  As I said, there are a few I wasn't greatly pleased with ... but ...



			
				Eluvan said:
			
		

> It also brought Bahamut to my attention as a deity probably quite closely allied with Pelor. Which is cool, since my character undoubtedly has plenty of love for Bahamut.




Yes, Bahamut was one of those that I didn't know where to throw him.  Hd doesn't quite fit anywhere, but I thought he fit best in either Righteousness or Protective Healing.  While Bahamut is clearly interested in the righteous (and thus could fit there) I thought reading through his porfolio in the CD that protection and restitution of the downtrodden are key elements.  So I went with Protective Helaing.  He really could have gone either way.



			
				Eluvan said:
			
		

> The only couple of things I might quibble with are the placing of St. Cuthbert in the family of Domination (I would argue his attitude is closer to Righteousness) and the placement of Boccob in the family of Spontaneous Magic - I'm not sure what reccomends that rather than Organized Magic.




Yeah ... I was thnking about that.  In truth, the Domination family grouping is always one that I struggled with.  The question is what else to do with Halmyr and Joramy, really.  Yes, I could just get rid of them.  But ... if I want to keep them around - Halmyr clearly belongs with the Righteousness if not in the Domination.  Which, I would agree with you that St. Cuthbert would also belong there.  That makes a family of five - larger than any other.  But that isn't so much a problem as what do do with Joramy.  Joramy fits nowhere except with St. Cuthbert and Halmyr.  I suppose I could have a family of 6 and put them all in Righteousness.  But I didn't want a family that large - it could get bulky.  So I did 2 families.  Although, come to think about it ... what if I changed the Domination title to Retribution.  I think I will do that.  Although it technically changes nothing .. that puts a slightly different approach to the gathering.  And reading through the portfolis I think they all fit well into Retribution - and thereful can stand apart (although beside) the family of Righteousness.  Thanks for asking and getting me to think through that title a bit more.  How does Retribution feel instead of Domination?

Now, as far as Boccob goes.  I intentionally wanted to seperate Wee Jas and Boccob.  While Boccob is clearly Neutral and thus could certainly has many wizards who follow him he is clearly more chaotic than Wee Jas.  The fact that his granted domains include Trickery whereas Wee Jas grants Law demonstrates a touch of the chaotic in Boccob.  But I do understand where you are arguing.  Perhaps the problem again is in the title.  Rather than Organized/Spontaneous Magic, perhaps I should have two other polar categories.  I'm open for suggestions.



			
				Eluvan said:
			
		

> Otherwise it's all good, and it gives me plenty to get excited about.




Good.  Keep any thoughts coming.  As all worlds go ... the more the world is explored, the more detailed the information will need to be.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> ... so I'll maybe tinker with my character tomorrow since I know I have some time to work on it.
> 
> I'll be looking over the background info for the setting... IMO, better to have too much as long as I can muck around in it with my character's background. Gives me more flavor to spice up my character's psychology




Tinker away, engrishonly.  Your character has much of the stat work already completed, so at this point it is only minor scale changes and flavor text anyway.  I'll look foreard to what you grab hold of wen it comes to the world information.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 17, 2005)

With the title changed from domination to retribution, I completely concur with St. Cuthbert's placing in that group. 

 As for Boccob... yeah, I think the problem is one of nomenclature. Spontaneous Magic implies a special predeliction for Sorcerors, which Boccob doesn't seem particularly to have. But I do agree, on reflection, that he and Wee Jas should be seperated. 

 One idea might simply be to drop the names. It's good that the families have a common theme, but I'm not sure it should be used as a name or even that they should have a name. I just can't imagine someone saying IC 'I pay homage to all the deities of the Protective Healing family' or whatever, though the association would be recognised and implicit. 

 See where I'm coming from?


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Yeah, I see where you are coming from.  I never really thought of these as IC designations - more or less what pulled them together.  Most of the names come from their related domains.  Perhaps I could just call them "Mage/Psionics 1" and "Mage/Psionics 2"     I'm not altogether happy with the designation magic either as that leaves out psionics ... by name at least.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 17, 2005)

Okay, I think I am much more satisfied now.  I switched Boccob and Wee Jas (makes much more sense to have Boccob's portfolio with Delleb anyway).  I also changed the names to "Study" and "Will."  I think this is much more open to inclusion of both magics and psionics into either of these categories - although not that magic and psionics have to go here.  Anyway, I think I am happy with it now.  Thanks.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 18, 2005)

Cool.


----------



## Bront (Nov 18, 2005)

FYI, Ferix, you have e-mail


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 18, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> FYI, Ferix, you have e-mail




I do?  At what account?


----------



## Bront (Nov 18, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> I do?  At what account?



Whatever one you have attached to your enworld account.


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 18, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Whatever one you have attached to your enworld account.




Hrm... I wonder if that one is still in use.


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 18, 2005)

Nope... it was out of date... try again   I updated it to a more current address.


----------



## Bront (Nov 18, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Hrm... I wonder if that one is still in use.



Well, at the moment, it's the only one I can e-mail, and it's quite easy to do given you let people do it, so I might sugggest you check it, or change it.

Edit: Doh, too quick.  Ok, sending 

I won't see a reply till I get home, unless you post it somewhere.  You'll understand.


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 18, 2005)

I don't know for certain... perhaps in December once my school work has dropped for break and I can get the broad strokes up and running.


----------



## Bront (Nov 18, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Nope... it was out of date... try again   I updated it to a more current address.



Sent


----------



## Bront (Nov 18, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> I don't know for certain... perhaps in December once my school work has dropped for break and I can get the broad strokes up and running.



Cool.  It's just been sitting for a while, figured I'd ask privately


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 18, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Cool.  It's just been sitting for a while, figured I'd ask privately




Well, this is odd.  Usually as a player I am used to feeling out of the loop at times .. but not as the DM!  Of course, not that it is important.  [Read: none of my business, just me making an odd comment]

So ... it looks like everyone's character is statted out and approved (except for minor concerns) except for Eluvan and Ferrix.  Ferrix, I'll admit I haven't gotten a chance to look at the link to the old character yet, I'll put that on my list of priorities for today.

I think I am about ready to start the game when the character sheets are up and ready, but there is no immediate pressure.  I can wait a few more days - even up to a week or so.  But a week from Monday is the absolute final limit.  I will be posting 1/2 of the introductory post soon so that you all know where the game is starting.  Some of you might like that info as you think about backgrounds.  But if I do post the first 1/2 of the introductory post, please don't post in the IC thread until I finish it once all the characters are in!


----------



## Bront (Nov 18, 2005)

No biggie NLF, just plotting against you 

It's in reference to another PbP game.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 18, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> No biggie NLF, just plotting against you
> 
> It's in reference to another PbP game.




Oh, I figured half as much.  Besides, you all better be plotting against me since the first evil opponent you all are going to face is a Horned Devil.

MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Okay, maybe the Horned Devil is a bit much ....


----------



## Fenris (Nov 18, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Oh, I figured half as much.  Besides, you all better be plotting against me since the first evil opponent you all are going to face is a Horned Devil.
> 
> MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
> 
> Okay, maybe the Horned Devil is a bit much ....




Eh, just give him white, iris-less eyes


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 18, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, this is odd.  Usually as a player I am used to feeling out of the loop at times .. but not as the DM!  Of course, not that it is important.  [Read: none of my business, just me making an odd comment]
> 
> So ... it looks like everyone's character is statted out and approved (except for minor concerns) except for Eluvan and Ferrix.  Ferrix, I'll admit I haven't gotten a chance to look at the link to the old character yet, I'll put that on my list of priorities for today.
> 
> I think I am about ready to start the game when the character sheets are up and ready, but there is no immediate pressure.  I can wait a few more days - even up to a week or so.  But a week from Monday is the absolute final limit.  I will be posting 1/2 of the introductory post soon so that you all know where the game is starting.  Some of you might like that info as you think about backgrounds.  But if I do post the first 1/2 of the introductory post, please don't post in the IC thread until I finish it once all the characters are in!




Sorry about being a slacker... had to catch up from a weekend away.  Character will go up today/tomorrow.


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 18, 2005)

Question...

Would you allow this cleric variant from Unearthed Arcana, it can be found here in the SRD.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 19, 2005)

Unfortuantely, Ferrix, I am only allowing the Core, Complete, and BoED sources.  I have already said no to the cloistered cleric earlier in the thread, so to say yes to it now would probably paint me in a bad light!    Sorry ...

Edit: I just took a look at your cleric from another game.  Assuming she is adjusted for the point buy and level ... she certainly looks like a workable character.  Of course, feel free to go in a different direction if you so choose.


----------



## Ferrix (Nov 19, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Unfortuantely, Ferrix, I am only allowing the Core, Complete, and BoED sources.  I have already said no to the cloistered cleric earlier in the thread, so to say yes to it now would probably paint me in a bad light!    Sorry ...
> 
> Edit: I just took a look at your cleric from another game.  Assuming she is adjusted for the point buy and level ... she certainly looks like a workable character.  Of course, feel free to go in a different direction if you so choose.




*shrugs* i just like the cloistered cleric for some less combat oriented clerics.

Doesn't matter.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 19, 2005)

I hear you.  That was pretty much the argument made by the other player who asked for it.  And it is a legitimate argument, I'll give you that.

In other matters, as promised the first IC post is up.  It can be found here: Elysium Squad IC  As I reqwuested earlier, though, please do not post there yet.  Feel free to read it - nothing in there should surprise you.

As far as background leading up to this goes ...  Your character would have received a summons from Glammerdell (whose name is easily recognizable throughout the three civilized lands) and the summons would have made it pretty clear that they had been invited to a quest where they would be teleported to an unfriendly place so they should come to the summons prepared for teleport.  They would have also been able to surmise that they would be doing ALOT of fighting evil (in possible many forms including planar and undead as well as humanoid and monstrous) and thus would also have had opportunity to prepare.  While they would have been asked to keep the nature of the summons a secret, the summons would not have held back many details itself.

Once all the characters are posted, approved, and all the backgrounds are up - we can begin. Like I keep saying though, I don't want people to feel like I am pressuring them to start.  I don't want to start on a weekend anyway.  But I did want to get that much up so that as people were thinking about the world and tweaking their character they would know where the story would pick up and therefore they could successful match their character up with the beginning of the game.  Have fun getting your characters finalized!

As I say in the gamethread, any questions your characters have about the quest should be asked here.  You don't need to worry about putting them in an IC format - so just ask away.  For those of you with complete characters, this will give you something to do while you prepare to get into the game.


----------



## Fenris (Nov 19, 2005)

NF,
Ok I'll start the hit parade off then. Based on the above, do I need to haul in a barrel of arrows with me or will there be opportunities to re-stock?

Fenris


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 19, 2005)

There will be places to restock.  Quehalost does have towns.  Within these towns there are bars, taverns, inns, and stores to purchase things - even supplies.  Granted, many of them may not be friendly ... but with a reasonable persuasion as to why they should sell to you (show of force, demonstration of wealth (not necessarily bribe), etc) it will certainly be possible to restock.  If the party is luck enough to find one, there might even be a hidden temple of good someplaces.


----------



## Bront (Nov 19, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> NF,
> Ok I'll start the hit parade off then. Based on the above, do I need to haul in a barrel of arrows with me or will there be opportunities to re-stock?
> 
> Fenris



Bah, your reliance on material goods makes you week.


----------



## Fenris (Nov 19, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Bah, your reliance on material goods makes you week.




And your abhorance of them make you _weak_!  Mine only make me seven days.  And I'll remember that when the harpy archer is peppering you with arrows.


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 19, 2005)

lol...... yea i wanna pick up a sling....... cuase its free!!


----------



## Bront (Nov 19, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> lol...... yea i wanna pick up a sling....... cuase its free!!



Oddly enough, a sling is fine, but the ammo is not 

I pondered grabbing one, and decided against it.  If it comes to it, he may grab one.


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 19, 2005)

yea the group i play with normaly has the same feeling, so we got a house rule.  you can find ammo for yer sling, but the damage is at a -1.  well worth it imo


----------



## Bront (Nov 19, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> yea the group i play with normaly has the same feeling, so we got a house rule.  you can find ammo for yer sling, but the damage is at a -1.  well worth it imo



Technicaly, it is allowable, since it's a simple weapon, he'll just have trouble buying it.

That's the rules for rocks, maybe I just just use rocks, if it's allowable by NLF.

I with Shurican were simple


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 19, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> That's the rules for rocks, maybe I just just use rocks, if it's allowable by NLF.




I've got no problems with that rule for rocks.



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> I with Shurican were simple




Yeah, I can see it now.  Take this round objects with anywhere from 4 to 8 really pointed edges.  Yeah, the one where it takes a PhD to carry without killing your self.  Now, learn to thrown it straight without slicing up your fingers ....

Sounds like a simple weapon to me ...


----------



## Bront (Nov 19, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Yeah, I can see it now.  Take this round objects with anywhere from 4 to 8 really pointed edges.  Yeah, the one where it takes a PhD to carry without killing your self.  Now, learn to thrown it straight without slicing up your fingers ....
> 
> Sounds like a simple weapon to me ...



It's not my fault you can't master the simplicities of throwing small metal pieces


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 19, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Technicaly, it is allowable, since it's a simple weapon, he'll just have trouble buying it.
> 
> That's the rules for rocks, maybe I just just use rocks, if it's allowable by NLF.
> 
> I with Shurican were simple




trouble buying what?  a sling? i go skin a rabbit and tan the hide, vola a sling.  buying rocks? i go outside, yaaa! rocks!


----------



## Bront (Nov 20, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> trouble buying what?  a sling? i go skin a rabbit and tan the hide, vola a sling.  buying rocks? i go outside, yaaa! rocks!



I ment buying normal bullets.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 20, 2005)

For any who are really into cosmological alignment of the planes, a new post is up in the Enigmatica Game World Thread.  That one is purely for "light reading" only.      Nothing in that post will effect game play, how spells are used, etc - unless the party decides to some planar travel.  Then it might be important to realize.

Bront, Fenris ... the knowledge in that post does also trickle into the metaunderstanding of some things in Mightier ... understanding that your characters would know, but not in the game mechanics terms expressed.  They would understand (and have seen so far in the game) that evil seems to take a more more significant "presence" than good in the game world.  If you are looking for a game mechanics reason to justify that, this new addition will help clarify it a little.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 20, 2005)

Mmmm... cosmology.   

 I like what you've done with it NLF, it's a nice distinctive setup which opens up some interesting questions. I hope I get a chance to play around with its implications at some point in the future IC. 

 Just so you know, the mechanics of my character and the description are done, but I haven't got round to writing up a background yet. Things are still very busy for me right now, but hopefully I'll get a chance to look into that soon.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 20, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> Just so you know, the mechanics of my character and the description are done, but I haven't got round to writing up a background yet. Things are still very busy for me right now, but hopefully I'll get a chance to look into that soon.




No big, Eluvan.  I do ask that somewhere between now and Saturday noon (your time across the pond, as it were) you find some time to type it up.   That way I will have a little time to run over the character sheet before the game begins.  



Everyone else, that same deadline applies.  Please have the character background finalized by SAT noon at the latest so that we are ready for a game start a week from MON at the latest.  If things get up quicker, then we can start earlier.  But I'd like to have everyone's sheet in place and teaked before we start.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 20, 2005)

Okay, cool. I'm actually hoping I'll get a chance to do it tomorrow evening, but failing that it shouldn't be a problem to get it done before Saturday.


----------



## Fenris (Nov 20, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Everyone else, that same deadline applies.  Please have the character background finalized by SAT noon at the latest so that we are ready for a game start a week from MON at the latest.  If things get up quicker, then we can start earlier.  But I'd like to have everyone's sheet in place and teaked before we start.




Geez, what a taskmaster. You're almost as mean as the guy running "Mightier than the Sword"


----------



## Bront (Nov 20, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Geez, what a taskmaster. You're almost as mean as the guy running "Mightier than the Sword"



I'd tell him to kiss where the sun don't shine, but my holy radiance kind of eliminates those spots unless he wants to use an internal organ


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 21, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Geez, what a taskmaster. You're almost as mean as the guy running "Mightier than the Sword"




Yeah, i've heard about _that_ DM.  Someone should really reign him in.  Such a power trip that guy is on....


----------



## Bront (Nov 21, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> For any who are really into cosmological alignment of the planes, a new post is up in the Enigmatica Game World Thread.  That one is purely for "light reading" only.      Nothing in that post will effect game play, how spells are used, etc - unless the party decides to some planar travel.  Then it might be important to realize.
> 
> Bront, Fenris ... the knowledge in that post does also trickle into the metaunderstanding of some things in Mightier ... understanding that your characters would know, but not in the game mechanics terms expressed.  They would understand (and have seen so far in the game) that evil seems to take a more more significant "presence" than good in the game world.  If you are looking for a game mechanics reason to justify that, this new addition will help clarify it a little.



Cosmology.  Best served with milk


----------



## Fenris (Nov 22, 2005)

I have a few questions for Glammerdell.
"How do we locate, identify and destroy these portals?"


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 22, 2005)

Well, the obvious answer is that since nobody is completely sure of their existance hence the reason they are a legend ... who knows?   

The less obvious answer is that chances are the portals will be near the center of an organized force.  So, if there seem to be a ton of demons or devils of other BBEGs hanging around and all these ones look more powerful than the rest the party has faced ... well, there ya go.  There may be a portal nearby.

As for destroying them ... few portal locations are concretely known on Enigmatica, therefore there is no hard and fast knowledge about how to do so.  However, there is a belief that if the magic that holds the portal open can be dispelled, the portal will become innert unless something else reinfuses the magical life within it.  There are various means of dispelling magic - some temporary and some permanent ... so safe and some quite hazardous.  Of course temporary means would probably only supress the portal and not destroy it.  There is the thought that if one end of the portal ould be placed within a permanent anti-magic field (or rather a permanent ant-magic field be placed around the portal) that it might seal the portal off as long as the antimagic field was in place.  But of course, there are other distinctly possible solution to that problem.


----------



## Bront (Nov 22, 2005)

Cool, let me get out my wand of infinate anti-magic shell.... oh wait... :\


----------



## Fenris (Nov 22, 2005)

Ok, questions that can actually be answered   

"If we are being sent in as a surveillance and reconnaisance force, how are we to communicate with two seperate commanders, each on opposite sides of the realm?"


----------



## engrishonly (Nov 22, 2005)

I'm back again. 
I needed time to devote to my exam prep. Darn standardized exams     It's not what you know, but how you know it.

I got a preliminary score of 710 on my GMAT (aced the verbal section, did well enough on the math section). That's enough to help me get in to Michigan (my alma mater) or Santa Clara, and it shouldn't hurt me for Stanford... my top three choices. I'd prefer to go back to Ann Arbor, but staying in California at either of those fine institutions would certainly be a good thing.

And now for the rest of the stupid application process...  

p.s. The Princeton Review stuff for the GMAT was really helpful, if anyone is interested in doing the MBA thing.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 22, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Ok, questions that can actually be answered




Hee hee.  I thought you'd appreciate those answers.

Of course, Bront's money-hating monk (  )will be of no help in that matter as he so clearly illustrated....   



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> "If we are being sent in as a surveillance and reconnaisance force, how are we to communicate with two seperate commanders, each on opposite sides of the realm?"




As far as the commanders.  That is a legitimate question that I am trying to figure out a question for.  When I DM, I typically have an NPC as part of the party just in case the party needs a push, prod, or hint.  But with a party of 7 ... adding an NPC will make 8.  That'll essentially double the XP needed to level over a standard party.  Which is not a big deal ... except that it'll double the amount of monsters faced.  If it doubles the amount of monsters per encounter, there is more of a chance of ganging up on one person, which increases the ikelyhood of a player death.

Now ... going through all that makes me really lean towards running this game without an NPC partymember.  The reason that is significant is because if I did have an NPC partymember I could build them to be the communications expert so to speak.  But with no NPC party member, that means the aprty will have to solve that problem.

The short answer is that the priests in the temple who are advising the king will hopefully await your report.  It is unlikely that the party will be able to slay EVERY evil being in the land.  So, if the party goes in and gets recoinnaisance done and comes back, they provide info for the main army who then goes in.  If the party goes in, destroys the portals and then comes back ... then the main army goes in and plays clean-up.  Either way ... there really is no major need to communicate until the party returns with their report.

That is pretty much where I am leaning right now.  Now I just need to have a contingency plan in place just in case of the TPK ... and we'll have a complete answer!


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 22, 2005)

It should be okay. If there's something we really, urgently need to communicate we can always try to get hold of a scroll of _Sending_ or somesuch.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 22, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> It should be okay. If there's something we really, urgently need to communicate we can always try to get hold of a scroll of _Sending_ or somesuch.




 

I notice you ignored the possibility of the TPK.


----------



## Fenris (Nov 22, 2005)

If I may make a suggestion or two.

Magic!

A magic scroll that we write on, the writing dissappears and appears on another specific scroll elsewhere. Good for maps as well.

A magic bird that flies to the person we state.

Some kind of palantir.

Magic arrow that once the message is attached flies off to a pre-set location or person (a person target might be dangerous then though    ).



But what's the lag time between our entry and the main army? Days, weeks, months, eons?


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 22, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> If I may make a suggestion or two.
> 
> Magic!
> 
> <snip>




Well, of course you can include an item like this as part of your character's starting wealth...    



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> But what's the lag time between our entry and the main army? Days, weeks, months, eons?




That I can answer, and should answer. Months at the earliest.  The main army will take time to gather.  An invasion force of this must be trained for special combat, trained with some special weapons - and many of the weapons will need to be made in the first place.  It is also hoped that the main army will benefit from the party's information - so the army will probably stay even for a few days after the party returns so as to allow the necessary information to trickle down the ranks.

But the short answer is months.  THe king and his priests would like to see the arty return in anywhere between 2-6 months ... depending on how much they are able to destroy on their own.


----------



## Fenris (Nov 22, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, of course you can include an item like this as part of your character's starting wealth...
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Ah, well that clarifies thngs quite a bit. So yeah as long as ONE of us survives to make it out alive, we're OK.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 22, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> I notice you ignored the possibility of the TPK.




 Not exactly. But if we get a TPK then... it's not really my problem any more, is it?


----------



## Fenris (Nov 22, 2005)

Another question, more OOC than to Glammerdell.

So what is the organization of Quehalost? A series of fiefdoms ruled by demons? A land of evil and neutral humans who just occasionally have devils tromping through their fields? Is there an overlord (in deed or word) or the whole area? 

I can't shake the idea that we are headed in to this desolate wasteland of dead trees and roving bands of demons and devils. And I knwo it's not right, but I can't get a fix on a better image.

And don't tell me to wait until I get there!


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 23, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> I can't shake the idea that we are headed in to this desolate wasteland of dead trees and roving bands of demons and devils. And I knwo it's not right, but I can't get a fix on a better image.
> 
> And don't tell me to wait until I get there!




You'll just have to wait and ... 

Oh, never mind.  You probably not accept that answer.    

Seriously, though.  Quehalost is a land in turmoil.  The land in general might well be chaotic - but that is just because Quehalost is split into pockets of "evilness."  Because each pocket is different ... it seems a bit chaotic to describe it.  But there are very lawful pockets and there are very chaotic pockets.  So ... lawful/chaotic doesn't do well to describe it as a whole.

Hmmmmmm.  Let's build from the bottom up.  First of all ... the sun shines just as brightly there as it does anywhere else.  If one were to remove the people/creatures from the land and just take the ground and earthen formations - there would be little difference from the other three kingdoms.  So it isn't like it is crossing onto the dark side of the moon, for example.

Now, adding in for plants and animals.  Because of the ferocity of life in Quehalost and the inability for the land to be tamed because of the infighting ... the land does have a more primal nature.  That is the best word for it.  Not necessarily evil - primal.  The beasts there are used to a kill or be killed mentality.  There are plants that have developed/evolved ... aggressive ... tendencies as the scorching of demonic, devilish, and undead war/magic has been thrust across the land.  It is not necessarily because the land is inherantly evil - it is because the land must be primal just to merely survive in evolutionary terms.  But there are things like oak trees and happy meadows in Quehalost.  But there are also more sinister sides to the plants/animals that live there.

Okay, the people.  The people really depend on where they are.  There is no single organized force of evil in Quehalost.  there are multiple sources.  The people who live in the town reflect the source of the evil that they happen to be "blessed" in being under their control.  For example - Devil organizations tend to be lawful, right?  So, it is quite possible that on the surface at least ... a devil area might appear to run just like anywhere else.  Business as usual - except the people are more mean or at the very least uncooperative or greedy.  But you might not realize a devil was in control because the town is operating under a lawful threat over their head.  You might not see a devil if they are able to rule with fear behind a human beaurocrat - or if you do see a devil they would most likely be acting in a lawful manner.  A demonically controlled town, however, might be more obvious.  The people might not be so much mean-spirited as they might be selfish or cruel.  These people would be used to being under the control of a power that lashed out however it felt like ... and they would reflect that same character.  You might even see demons around freely just to torment the locals. The people might be impulsive and seem to follow superstitions.  A town controlled by an undead power might fear death because they know the horror that awaits them at the hands of the local necromancer.  Or they might never accept surrender because they are paid for each dead foreigner they can bring into town.  These towns can run the balance between lawful and chaotic, so it might be more or less obvious what kind of undead power is at hand.

In some cases it might be just like watching a roving band of demons creating havoc wherever they go.  In other cases it might be hard to realize that there is a potentially extra-planar power at work in a place because it looks so ... normal.  There is a good bit of both.

Oh.  Yeah.  We haven't even spoken of the Athlesis.  Heh.

Heh heh.  They are a special collection of ... people ... I have cooked up.  I'm surprised that in talking about evil that their general type hasn't come up in duscussion.  But, I'll save those for later.  And yes, you will have to wait and find out what ... or who ... the Athlesis are.  

[Athlesis - pronounced ath-LAY-sis if anyone is curious.]


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 23, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> Not exactly. But if we get a TPK then... it's not really my problem any more, is it?




Fair enough.  And ... just for the record, I can say that as far as PbP games go I am a good judge of power level vs. party.  [Although this is the largest party I've every done via PbP]  I've yet to have a player die who didn't deserve it out of their out stupidity.  Players who keep their wits about them and don't act overly impulsively usually manage to survive a long while.  (Assuming one is not to afraid to run from the Ancient Wyrm Red Dragon who is flying overhead)  Impulsive players survive okay ... as long as they are a cleric and have the Augmented Healing feat!    

Oh, and Fenris.  You've got mail.  Sorry I missed it last night.  I was watching the football game and got wrapped up in Minnesota beating up Brett Favre.  Then, I feel asleep.  But you've got mail now.


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 23, 2005)

hrm i'll shell out for a few bird tokens 600gp for 2 right?


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 23, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> hrm i'll shell out for a few bird tokens 600gp for 2 right?





Yep.  According to the DMG they are Quaal's Feather Tokens: Bird.  And at 300 gold a pop ... take as many as you feel necessary to carry.


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 23, 2005)

done and done, 4 tokens for 1200gp.


----------



## Bront (Nov 23, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Of course, Bront's money-hating monk (  )will be of no help in that matter as he so clearly illustrated....



To top it off, he took the "Hey, let's get the glowing guy" feat (Or self ferie fire, depending on who you ask).  I'm pretty useless. 

Comunication issues... are not the pious often inspired by visions from their lord?

Questions:
"What of the inocents in the area, is there a plan to help them?"

"Why me?  I am but a humble servant, sharing the generosity of Pelor's life giving light with those I can.  Surely you need real soldiers and warriors, not a simple wanderer."


----------



## Fenris (Nov 23, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> "Why me?  I am but a humble servant, sharing the generosity of Pelor's life giving light with those I can.  Surely you need real soldiers and warriors, not a simple wanderer."




Doesn't false modesty corrupt your piousness?


----------



## engrishonly (Nov 23, 2005)

Just want to say I'll be out the next couple days at the in-laws. Haven't had time to tinker, so I'll just, um, borrow the info in the Enigmatica info thread so that I can work on a background during my down-time.

I should have the final stuff posted Friday or Saturday.


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 23, 2005)

heh hey fenis, who said that it was false for his charecter  maby he really does see the glass half empty in that matter


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 23, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> To top it off, he took the "Hey, let's get the glowing guy" feat (Or self ferie fire, depending on who you ask).  I'm pretty useless.




True, but NoL can be extinguished at will and reactivated again as a free action.  So not as useless as you would have everyone believe.



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> Comunication issues... are not the pious often inspired by visions from their lord?




True.  But it is often not very reliable to trust that one's deity understands the need for communication in the same terms as people.  Where people might want to call for reinforcements or send a message home updating the troops ... a deity might see that as a worthy chalenge to continue alone!  Of course, there is always the chance that the deity could send in a guardinal when not looking, too.  It can go either way.



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> "What of the inocents in the area, is there a plan to help them?"




The Alliance of Fenneress and the Confederacy of Tongra have a longstanding policy that those who desire to free themselves of the oppressive forces within Quehalost will be accepted and reintegrated elsewhere in the land - provided they come unarmed and drained of any powers/spells they might have access to - once they cross the border.  They are picked up by a border patrol and deprogrammed.  Then, they are wisked far away from the evils of the land so that temptation to evil does not linger.  However, evil has grown so strong in that land that many who live there cannot remember the time when evil was merely growing and not dominant.  Many elves do not even remember that time any more.  As the evil has taken a strong grasp over the land, many have learned to adapt to the evil.  Many who are left would not even think about being anywhere else except in the evil land.  Those who are reached and see the light often stay because they know that they are one of the few forces working for a cause other than evil.  They know that if they leave, evil will go unchecked.  Thus, there are not many true innocents anymore.  There are willing participants on both sides.  But innocents, people desiring to be redeemed, and those who tire of the struggle may come through the border unarmed and be saved.



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> "Why me?  I am but a humble servant, sharing the generosity of Pelor's life giving light with those I can.  Surely you need real soldiers and warriors, not a simple wanderer."




You have answered this question by asking your own first question.  Glammerdell would reply in a true priestly form, "Look around - most of the others have focused on the destruction of the vileness, which is a worthy cause indeed and ultimately a very nessary goal.  It is the party's main objective, really.  But it takes a simple monk who has sworn off material gain to be concerned about innocents and perhaps even redemption of the vile themselves.  Pelor's light can be a crushing force against the wicked, but Pelor's light can be a beacon of hope into the darkness.  Both uses of Pelor's gifts will be useful on this quest."



Engrishonly - thanks for the update.  Have fun with the family and see you on the other side of Thanksgiving then.


----------



## Bront (Nov 23, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> True, but NoL can be extinguished at will and reactivated again as a free action.  So not as useless as you would have everyone believe.



I know, I had another character who actualy had the ability to farie fire herself, it just seems like an odd side effect.

And yes, he doesn't walk around glowing, that would be kind of presumtious.

I'll try to tweek the sheet tonight.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 25, 2005)

On a side note to all:

Over the course of the evening (now that I have had my fill of Football and the PbP games are understandable slow) ... I will be placing at least two new additions to the World Info thread on active organizations in the land.  Again, these posts are not necessary reading, but if you have a speare moment and you care to read them, thay are there.

ALSO, and this is significant.  Final Character sheets are due by SAT (background included!).  Anyone wishing to play in the game must have a character sheet approved by then.  The game will start on Monday.  

And ... For those who have sheets done for a while now, I think you for your patience.  For those of you working on papers and stuff I hope things are going well.  For those of you spending time with family, enjoy!


----------



## JonnyFive (Nov 25, 2005)

i'm assuming that my sheet is considered done, right?


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 25, 2005)

Yeah, you're good.


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## Bront (Nov 25, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Yeah, you're good.



he better be, that was required


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## JonnyFive (Nov 25, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Yeah, you're good.





no i know i'm good, lawfull good to be exact, but is my char sheet finished to your approval 




hehe j/k, happy turkey day everyone


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## Eluvan (Nov 25, 2005)

Cassient is nearly finished. He'll be posted later tonight.

 The background got quite long.


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## Eluvan (Nov 25, 2005)

Well, Cassient's up in the RG thread. I hope you like long backgrounds... it turned out slightly longer than the essay that was delaying it.   

 Just over 3,000 words in fact. Let me know if you'd prefer a summary.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 25, 2005)

I didn't do the fine toothed-comb ywet, Eluvan ... but from what I see the character looks nice.  I'll go over it a bit later tonight and let you know if there is anything that needs fixed.  From the brief look I was able to take, I'd say it looks good, though!  I look forward to reading the background.  Thanks for getting the sheet up and running.  That background is worthy of one of my own - if not even a bit longer!


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 26, 2005)

Eluvan - character sheet definately approved.  Actually, very well done.  The only problem I had with it was incredibly minor ... actually it falls in the category of nit-picky!    I noticed that you didn't have any clothes listed in your equipment!   (Although you did spend a paragraph describing his clothes so I know he wears some!)  But if that's the worst mistake I can find, I'd say you did a fine job indeed.  You writing of the background is well done, and a very creative use of the race if I may say so.

So, as of very early SAT morning ... we have:

JonnyFive - approved
Engrishonly - approved, with money left to spend or have on person
Bront - approved
Eonthar - needs to finish the 1st level feat, some items under physical description, and background
Fenris - approved
Eluvan - approved
Ferrix - ??? ...


----------



## Bront (Nov 26, 2005)

Technicaly, clothes don't weigh anything (It's mentioned in the PHB under equipment, not in the SRD though), so I rarely list them.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 26, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Technicaly, clothes don't weigh anything (It's mentioned in the PHB under equipment, not in the SRD though), so I rarely list them.




No, they don't weigh anything, that's true.  And considering that they are a very low cost item ... most people do just omit them.  

... really, I was admittedly reaching for something to say.  It would be presumptuous to say "perfect character sheet," right?   

...

Seriously, though.  I think the party should be an interesting one.  Definately has a mix of personalities, approaches to combat, and alignments.  Should be a very interesting game.  The only thing I'm worried about is Ferrix's character.  (The party is going to need a cleric)  I saw the post saying Ferrix was going away, though.  Worst case scenario I could thrown an NPC healer/turner into the mix.


----------



## Bront (Nov 26, 2005)

Ok, Brother Ray is finished. 

Added all the bonuses from feats I forgot, and a description.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 26, 2005)

Cool, thanks NLF. Looking forward to getting started.


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## engrishonly (Nov 26, 2005)

Okay, got the background up... hopefully it makes sense as I've laid it out. A lot of stuff is "borrowed" from my historical source, but if I cite it then it's not a total rip-off, right? 

I think I need to tally up the gold that I've spent on my character, and then figure out what to do with the rest (conversion to gems)... but that's about it. The main stuff is there.


----------



## Bront (Nov 26, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> Okay, got the background up... hopefully it makes sense as I've laid it out. A lot of stuff is "borrowed" from my historical source, but if I cite it then it's not a total rip-off, right?
> 
> I think I need to tally up the gold that I've spent on my character, and then figure out what to do with the rest (conversion to gems)... but that's about it. The main stuff is there.



Is Joan of Arc trademarked?

How about Joan of Arcadia?


----------



## Bront (Nov 26, 2005)

Eonthar is looking for an extra feat, and noting a couple of combined Paladin and/or Monk feats, and came up with this one, subject to NLF's approval.

-------------------------
*Devoted Mage*
*Prerequisites:* Smite Evil ability, Ability to spontaniously cast arcane spells.
*Benifit:* 
-As a Swift Action that doesn't provoke an attack of opertunity, you may sacrifice one of your daily spells to add a bonus to your attack and damage rolls for one round.
-Your Paladin and Sorcerer levels stack for determining the extra damage delt by your smite evil ability.
-You may freely multiclass between Paladin and Sorcerer, though you still must maintain your lawful good alignment and deal with all other normal multiclassing rules.
-------------------------

Basicly, it's a combination of Ascetic Mage and Ascetic Knight (The Monk/Paladin one).  The only change is I removed the restriction requiring 2nd level spells, since I felt it wasn't that exciting.  Basicly, you are already crippled as a multi-classed sorcerer in caster ability, and you've giving up BAB as a fighter type by multi-classing from a Paladin.  So, the bonus to hit and damage isn't as devistating as it might seem (You either have a low BAB and lots of high level spells, a high BAB and not fewer low level spells, or are in the middle), nor is the smite evil (Which is par for the Paladin, and makes sense, and attempts are still limited by paladin level), as far as balance goes.

Of course, it's not a good 1st level feat, but you can always take it as a 3rd level feat, and take breath as the other 1st level one.

Hope you allow it, and hope it's ok.

Eonthar, other suggested feats:
Gift of Grace (BoED) - REQ: Divine Grace - Lets you split and share your Divine Grace between others, up to one ally per character level.  Each person gets a bonus individualy, including your self, that adds up to your total charisma (3 allys and you get +1, you get +2 and someone else gets +2, 2 allies get +1 and one gets +2, etc)

Hands of a Healer (BoED) - REQ: Lay Hands - Lets you lay hands as if your charisma was 2 points higher.

Exalted Smite (BoED) - REQ: Smite Evil - When smiting, your weapon is considered good alligned for purposes of bypassing damage.

Ranged Smite Evil (BoED) - REQ: Smite Evil - Smite Evil with ranged attack (Which could be used on a attack roll spell I believe)

Servant of the Heavens (I think this is the right one) - +1 Luck bonus to one D20 roll once per day of your choice.  (There are 2 other feats, but I think this is the right one for pelor)

Purify Spell (Metamagic) (BoED) - Evil outsiders take 1 die code up on spell damage, Evil creatures take full normal damge, neutral creatures take half damage, good none.  +1 Spell level

Consecrate Spell (Metamagic) (BoED) - Damage gains the good descriptor, and 1/2 damage is devine and can't be reduced by resistance or immunity to energy.  +1 Spell Level

Power Attack (Hey' it's useful)

Resounding Blow (BoED) - REQ: Str 13, Power Attack, Intimidate 7 Ranks - When criticaling with a melee weapon, opponent must succeed in a Will save (DC 10 + 1/2 Char lV + Cha Mod) or cower for 1 round.

Quell the Profane (BoED) - REQ: Str 13, Power Attack, Resounding Blow, BAB +8 - Evil creatures, when criticaly hit, must make a Fort Save (DC 10 + 1/2 Char lV + Cha Mod) or take 1d4+1 temporary strength damage.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 26, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> *Devoted Mage*
> *Prerequisites:* Smite Evil ability, Ability to spontaniously cast arcane spells.
> *Benifit:*
> -As a Swift Action that doesn't provoke an attack of opertunity, you may sacrifice one of your daily spells to add a bonus to your attack and damage rolls for one round.
> ...




Well, there are two problems I have with this suggetion.  First, it really makes Arcane Strike (CW) substandard for a paladin/sorcerer.  Granted, any other fighter/mage combo would not be affected by the Devoted Mage suggestion.  The other problem is RP based, not game mechanics based.  Typically (although certainly not always) sorcerers are seen as more chaotic than lawful - hence why I don't believe the CAdv included a paly/sorc combo.  That certainly doesn't mean the combo can't exist, nor does it mean that such a multiclass can't occur!  Because obviously with Eonthar's character it can!  But part of creating a character like paly/sorc should be the inner struggle of giving up on the paly or the sorc to pursue the other.  That is not something that I think can be lost lightly.  Did this feat come from a sourcebook or is it a homebrew?  Just curious...

As for the rest of the feats ... it depends on where the character is headed, of course.  If eventually headed back down the melee path - Power Attack could be nice because it sets up the possibility for Quell the Profane and Resounding Blow feats.  If the character is going to focus more on casting, both Consecrate Spell and Purify Spell could be nice - tarnished only by the fact that this is a sorcerer and metamagics are not so clean and easy with a sorcerer than with a wizard.  But they are both still useful feats, especially if one maxes out their Concentration ranks.

Any of the listed BoED feats (either in Bront's post or my earlier post) would certainly be acceptable, though.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Nov 26, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> I think I need to tally up the gold that I've spent on my character, and then figure out what to do with the rest (conversion to gems)... but that's about it. The main stuff is there.




Character is fully approved - barring your decision on what to do with the rest of the money.  I'm not claiming to be accurate, because I am routinely bad at keeping tack of any amount of money less than a gold piece, but I have Eva as having an accumulated wealth of 4,591 gold - give or take a bit, I know.  That leaves a few pretty gems that she could pick up, or other items.  Just let me know what you decide.

Also, I don't mind that she is inspired by Joan of Arc.  Why not?

And Bront - I'll try not to remind my wife about Joan of Arcadia ... she is still bitter that they took that show off the air.  She was a loyal fan of it.

...

And, I'll update the earlier post to reflect those approved.


----------



## engrishonly (Nov 26, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Is Joan of Arc trademarked?
> 
> How about Joan of Arcadia?




Heh... I just want to be clear that any good ideas are not necessarily my own. Maybe I've written too many papers, but I just feel the need to mention when I take stuff from other sources. They do beat you up with that plagiarism stuff...


----------



## Bront (Nov 27, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, there are two problems I have with this suggetion.  First, it really makes Arcane Strike (CW) substandard for a paladin/sorcerer.  Granted, any other fighter/mage combo would not be affected by the Devoted Mage suggestion.  The other problem is RP based, not game mechanics based.  Typically (although certainly not always) sorcerers are seen as more chaotic than lawful - hence why I don't believe the CAdv included a paly/sorc combo.  That certainly doesn't mean the combo can't exist, nor does it mean that such a multiclass can't occur!  Because obviously with Eonthar's character it can!  But part of creating a character like paly/sorc should be the inner struggle of giving up on the paly or the sorc to pursue the other.  That is not something that I think can be lost lightly.  Did this feat come from a sourcebook or is it a homebrew?  Just curious...



It's homebrew, but built from the Ascetic Mage (A Monk/Sorcerer, which defies your chaos idea, which is the first time I've ever heard it), and the Ascetic Knight (A monk/Paladin).  The Monk/Paladin one limited the bonus only to unarmed strike, and I thought about limiting it to the dieties favored weapon, but power/balance wise, it didn't make much since, since the other ability the monk/paladin one had was paladin levels counted for unarmed strike damage, so I don't see how allowing any weapon for a paladin/sorcerer is that unbalancing, particularly when many of the synergies the monk/paladin enjoys are for naught (D4 instead of D8 HD, low BAB instead of Moderate, no directly melee based combat abilities, and no unarmored AC bonus but penalties for wearing armor.)

As for arcane strike, well, isn't that 1d6 per spell level in damage?  It makes the monk/sorcerer ability, which is standard, odd.

Anyway, it is up to you, just my thoughts.


----------



## Eluvan (Nov 27, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> (A Monk/Sorcerer, which defies your chaos idea, which is the first time I've ever heard it)






			
				The Player's Handbook said:
			
		

> For a sorcerer, magic is an intuitive art, not a science. Sorcery favors the free, chaotic, creative spirit over the disciplined mind, so sorcerers tend slightly towards chaos over law.


----------



## Bront (Nov 27, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

>



Bah   who ever reads the alignment section of a class?  My Barbarian Monk worked just fine thank you!


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 27, 2005)

Thanks for protecting my back, Eluvan.  i knew there was a legitimate reason I wanted you as a part of this game!   Well ... that and the fact that you can write a very interesting background!

I hope to have part II of the intoductory post up in 3-5 hours.  I've got a committment for the next 3 hours but then I'll be home.  The first post is going to be top priority when I log on so that this game gets moving.  Just to keep everyone up to date.

Ferrix, Eonthar - if you have your sheets completed by then you are still invited to play.  If not, I'm going to have to put you on the ALT list and move forward.  I've had this game on hold for a while now, it's time to get moving!  Eonthar, you really just need to pick a 1st level feat and do a bit of background work, so that shouldn't be too much.


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## Fenris (Nov 27, 2005)

DM QUIZ TIME!
NF, I changed my character a little bit. Can you spot the changes?   

Make sure it's all OK.

Fenris


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

I'll check it out in a second, Fenris.... if its a part of your background, I doubt I'll find it.  But if its a numerical change - we'll see!


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## Bront (Nov 28, 2005)

So I take it I didn't talk you into allowing that feat did I?  (Not that I'm interested in it, I just thought it was fairly interesting, unique, and allowed some additional playability to a multi-class that works fairly counter to itself otherwise).

I realy should start cataloging my homebrew feats, classes, and such.  I've already gotten several approved in LEW, and the Noble I'm using in your other game seems to be fairly well balanced, though I guess I should have taken it straight to see that for sure, but no big deal.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

No, you didn't actually.  That paly/sorc combo just couldn't get rationalized in my mind.  I have enough difficulty getting the monk/sorc rationalized.... But you are right, there isn't anything wrong with the feat.  Just one of those "non-core/Complete/XPH/BoED" things really.  But that shouldn't say that there was anything wrong with the feat, though. 

And Fenris - let's see.  I didn't remeber you having the synergies listed unless you altered it after I saw it last in the E-mail.  I also didn't remember you having the ink/quill/parchment either.  (Aside: Did you count the 8 gp for the ink?  And 1 gp for every 5 sheets of parchment as well.)  Let's see ... what else... oh, the E-mail version didn't have the potions, either.  But if I had to guess it would be a few changes in the skill selections.  I like the craft choice - very sensible for your background ... and otherwise useful  .  The one thing I did notice is that you took Knowledge(Undead).  Is there a reason you did not just do Knowledge(Religion)?  Because typically I use the Knowledge(Religion) skill to make checks against identifying undead and knowing weaknesses and the sort.  But if for some reason you just want Undead and not all the perks of Religion, we can talk!

...

Okay.  I'm off to make the rest of the post.  I didn't get to it earlier becasue I got a call from someone I hadn't talked to in about 2 years and I couldn't refuse them!  So I am a bit behind schedule.  But the post is coming in a little bit.  Never fear!


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## engrishonly (Nov 28, 2005)

Okay, I think I've accounted for the remainder of the starting funds (which I will describe as gifts of the local clergy and laypeople for the purposes of the quest since it otherwise wouldn't really fit Eva's background)... I think Eva is all set to begin the adventure!


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

Great!  I'll look at the stuff and let you know if there are any problems.

By the way - the game is afoot!   

A couple of DM things now that the game has begun:

1.  I am putting Ferrix on the ALT list of players seeing as that there is still no character sheet in the RG thread.  That's fine, it reduces the party size down to 6.  BUT ... that also leaves the party with no source of healing outside of arcane casters who do have limited access  to healing spells through the BoED (but these spells typically do an equal amount of damage to themselves ... so it doesn't really help), those with wands of healing, and a very small amount of paladin help.  So I'll leave this decision up to the party.  Would you rather *A)* go in with 6 only *B)* have me recruit a 7th specifically for the cleric healing role *C)* have me bring along an NPC cleric who specializes in healing.  Let me know your preferrences.

2.  Sblocks that are preceded by a set of names in medium turquoise  are for those players only.  Please do not read unless you can keep that information seperate from your character knowledge.  Personally, I don't much care if you read the ones not for your character - but for game realism sake any IC post that uses knowledge found in one of those Sblocks will be penalized XP.  In order to keep this secret knowledge a secret, they may be discussed in the OOC thread using Sblocks as well.

3.  Please use Sblocks when posting OOC stuff in the IC thread.

That's about all for know.  Enjoy the game!


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## Eonthar (Nov 28, 2005)

Non-Lethal Force,

I am really sorry, but I am going to have to drop out of this game.  I hope that I have not held the game up too much.

Real Life has, once again, conspired to make me have to drop out of games. I will try to follow the thread, but I will not be able to devote enough time to participate fully. So, instead of penalizing everyone, I will simply drop the game, to allow you to continue at full speed.

Sorry. Have a good game.


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## Bront (Nov 28, 2005)

Sorry to hear that Eonthar.  Hang in there, you'll get into one eventualy.  Hope you enjoy reading it 

I'm going to make my first post in the IC thread in the morning, when I'm a bit more awake.  Once I've established the character more, it's easier to post when tired, but that requires a little bit of posting first.  Running on 3 hours of sleep since Saturday.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

Eonthar said:
			
		

> Sorry. Have a good game.




Eonthar:

Please don't feel any need to apologize.  I appreciate your honesty in the matter and I respect you for knowing when to bow out.  Should RL give you more time and you do infact follow the game and would like to rejoin, I'll keep your chair warm arounf the table.  Please feel free to chime in once and a while in the OOC thread if you follow the game.

Everyone else:

Now that puts the above situation down to 5 PCs ... with no source of healing except arcane and wand use.  Would you prefer I: *A)* recruit a healer type character, *B)* bring along an NPC healer, *C)* Let you all get slaughter at the mercy of my minions without having much access to healing!  MWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!  Seriously, though ... the thought of having a party of Pelor worshippers without at least one being a cleric is kinda silly!


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## Bront (Nov 28, 2005)

I'd rather try to recruit a healer.  Not that I'm against NPCs as much as I'm Pro PC


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

No, that's cool.  No offense taken at all.  Other opinions?

- oh, and Bront ... go to bed and get some sleep!  Before you know it you'll only get 3 more hours of sleep tonight!


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## JonnyFive (Nov 28, 2005)

i choose option C, or a LE cleric of hextor that just hits us continusly with inflisct instead of cures


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## Fenris (Nov 28, 2005)

I know this Aetoi cleic of Pelor that might be able to help.    Good healer, Great Turner   

NF,
Yes, I added the quill and parchment to go along with the craft. Very appropriate for his background.

But as for the KN:Religion vs KN: Undead, well based on his background he wouldn't have picked up much of rites, rituals, mythic history and ecclesiastical traditions. Just funky walking corpses. So I see two options. The more focused skill has lower DCs in the field, but obviously no other knowledge, or I go back to KN: Religion. You know why it's there, and while significant, it isn't important. So either way works.

Oh, and you owe me an email    When you get to it.

Fenris


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## Eluvan (Nov 28, 2005)

I vote that we recruit ourselves a Cleric ASAP, and NPC one in the meantime.

 Well, that or JonnyFive's idea.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

Okay, I'll set-up a recruitment post in TtT forum for a cleric.  Anyone who knows of a good player please feel free to send them my way.  I immediately thought of Unleashed ... but Unleashed is already playing a cleric of Bahamut in another one of my games.  That wouldn't exclude Unleashed of course ... but it would make him play two clerics.  But seriously - players who come with references are taken!

Fenris - thanks for the reminder to check my E-mail.  It has gotten a bit harried here, so I'll get to it shortly. As for the Knowledge - it'll be easier if I store it under Kn(Religion).  It isn't like we are talking about a great number of skillpoints anyway - so many of the DCs besides possible Monster identification would be beyond Yavarin anyway.  I think it'll work out just fine.  If you want to keep it Kn(Undead) on your character sheet (for flavor purposes) that's fine with me.  But game mechanically I'll treat it as a religion check.  I'm not too worried about it - just wanted to make sure we are on the same page.


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## engrishonly (Nov 28, 2005)

I think that a lot of players prefer starting from scratch, and moving in to play someone else's character doesn't seem that appealing.

I'd vote for an NPC in the mean time (maybe even just a NPC Adept or something) who gets called back to the home church due to some emergency once we get a real live player.


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## Ferrix (Nov 28, 2005)

Guess no one saw my away message.  Was away for thanksgiving.  I'll get my cleric up soon.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

Nope - I saw the away message and saw that you were on yesterday. (by my time zone at least)  Just assumed you weren't interested since the character sheet didn't come up.  I was honestly feeling bad for making all the other players wait fo so long so I started the game and figured we would recruit another if you didn't say anything.  With the game starting up - I also didn't want to wait too long, either.  If I had to get a new player on board, I wanted to get them on board at game start-up when it made sense in the post as opposed to having someone new join once they were already in position.  It was a "damned if I do/damned if I don't" decision and I figured it was better to err on the side of making sure the slot was filled from the beginning.  Honest - no hard feelings intended.  i just want to make sure the role is filled from the start.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 28, 2005)

BTW Ferrix - I don't want the above post to come off as snippy, and I think that it can.  So please don't take it as snippy, just matter-of-fact.  If you want to play in the game, the spot is of course yours.  Let's just get the character sheet up and approved so we can get the game rolling, okay?  That's really my true desire - I just want to get the game out of the "planning" stage and into the "playing" stage.  That's really what I am after.  I have no desire to make you feel left behind or discarded at all.  I just want to start moving forward!


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 29, 2005)

Fenris - I just realized something.  Yavarin and Eva hail from the same neck of the woods in Barghost - although i realize Yavarin doesn't always stay near Nichols.  However, it would not be out of line to assume Yavarin might have heard of the commotion regarding Eva's "gift of prophecy" as it were.  Of course, I leave it up to you.  You can have Yavarin be somewhat familiar with it or not.  Totally your call.

Unfortunately, engrishonly, the same does not reverse back to you.  It is highly unlikely that Eva would be aware of a simple scout like Yavarin - because he has no special circumstances to draw attention to him.


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## Ferrix (Nov 29, 2005)

I popped on from maine to check up on things.  Didn't have access to any of my gaming stuff over the holiday.

Will get sheet up ASAP.


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## Bront (Nov 29, 2005)

Ray's been all over the place, any chance he's heard of anyone?  Then again, he's generaly not been looking for others.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 29, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Ray's been all over the place, any chance he's heard of anyone?  Then again, he's generaly not been looking for others.




You know ... I didn't pick up on it till now when I went back to re-read the histories ... but it is hard to know where he's been when the town where he was born is listed as "<insert town here>"   

On a serious note, though.  My guess is that it is doubtful that Brother Ray would have made contact with any of the others.  Outside of Eva, nobody has really established themselves with a truly "public" presence.  Yavarin has been quietly going about his work.  Ray is sworn to poverty and hangs around a monestary and fey.  Cassient seems to have gone about his improvements to character quietly and subtly.  Geeo is qesting on Pelor's behalf - but the most striking thing about him was the age in which he joined the forces.  So, my guess is that outside of Yavarin possibly knowing about Eva because Eva's backstory is considerably more public; nobody else in the party would really be aware of each other.

And Ferrix, no problem - I'll be waiting.  Once it is cleared you'll be welcome to post in the IC thread.


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## Bront (Nov 29, 2005)

Yeah, I made the town name for the little hamlet he came from (Can't remember what I called it, it's that imporant ), but I figured you might have a good idea of where he might have been before, given in theory he's technicaly heir to a veritable forture (probably gone by now anyway), a title, and perhaps land if he were to ever return and reveal who he is.


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## Ferrix (Nov 29, 2005)

Don't have time to finish up her equipment before I go to class, but otherwise she's basically done and in the RG.  Will finish her equipment tonight when I get home and post in the IC thread with your permission.


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## engrishonly (Nov 29, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, engrishonly, the same does not reverse back to you.  It is highly unlikely that Eva would be aware of a simple scout like Yavarin - because he has no special circumstances to draw attention to him.




Okay, no problem there.

Anyway, Eva doesn't know a lot of things in general, so that's okay. Maybe she will be foolishly clever at times, but mostly she will be growing into her role rather than starting off as a grizzled veteran evil-smiting machine.

And I definitely left Eva's "public" persona to be open to question since even St. Joan had only limited support amongst her own people (especially if you include the Burgundians). I just want to emphasize that "public" is not necessarily good, so it doesn't bother me if perceptions of Eva of the Lilies are not overwhelmingly good... that's why she's written as she is.


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## Bront (Nov 29, 2005)

NLF, would you think a bedroll or perhaps a blanket might be too much for Brother Ray to carry?  He's no problem sleeping on the ground, but nothing wrong with at least a blanket.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 29, 2005)

Ferrix - thanks for posting the sheet.  I will look at it and post here in a little bit once I have had a chance to do so.

Bront - Well, the feat description does say swearing off all material posessions.  So that tells me that the ground has become his friend.  As far as the blanket goes, don't forget that part of the vow comes with Endure Elements at level 3.  Thus, anything between -50 and 140 and Brother Ray is existing comfortably.  So while it might seem odd, even a blanket is not really necessary to stay warm.  Granted, a blanket is not going to alter the game balance ...  ... but there literally is no need for it.

And aas far as engrishonly's comment about Eva, that is also how I was approaching it.  It can be perceived as good or bad - up to the individual characters to decide how to take it.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 29, 2005)

Ferrix - Character looks good so far.  Remember that Hit Points are max for 1st level and 75% for each level thereafter - Round down at even class levels and up at odd class levels.  The feats certainly look very appropriate. 

I am a bit concerned about the specific history blending with the political realities of the Hombrew world - although the background need not be changed.  But for this world of Enigmatica, the background as stated would really only make sense by setting her family as residents of Quehalost.  Considering that Kiera was found as a teen, may I propose an addition to your backstory?  [Note - this is a request, not a DM demand   Please feel free to speak up if I walk on the character concept you created]

- - - - 

Skeleton Addition - please feel free to alter things or put them in your own words:  

It turns out that Nitan Orao was an agent of the Adversari Mortuum (a group that will be described in the World Info thread shortly, I hope!).  The words Adversari Mortuum literally means "To be against the dead."  This is a collection of agents who quite intentionally train and travel the land in an attempt to quell uprisings of undead.

Nitan Orao belonged to this group and while he traveled the borders of Quehalost trying to push back the undead evils that exist there, his home was in Barghost.  (The region all the characters ultiamtely come from as requested in the OOC thread).  Nitan Orao brought Kiera to his home in Barghost, where her training commenced.  Once she became a resident of Barghost and matured a few years, her progress was noted by the church and ultimately she became chosen for this group to go into Quehalost and strike out at the evil that exists.

If the above is acceptable to you in adding some homebrew world flavor to Kiera ... at your option she may have been invited to join the Adversari Mortuum (It would make sense as you describe her as a wandering light in the darkness") or not.  You can decide if that would fit or not.  Or, you can think about it and possibly have it as a character goal down the road.
- - - - -

Of course, this addition (if acceptable) could provide two things for Kiera.  First, it would give her incentive to have wanted to join this squad and go back into Quehalost.  Second, the addition would allow the background to stay as written yet ultimately locate her in Barghost where the story begins - a very subtle, but important point for the game concept.  The players are being sent by a "righteous" nation into a antion of "evil" to scout out the land so as the evil could be conquered.  Loyalty to the church (and therefore Barghost itself) is part of why the characters must be ultimately located in Barghost - I hope that makes sense.

However, Kiera would not have any "special" knowledge of Quehalost unless she had the skill ranks in Knowledge(local) or Knowledge(Geography) to back it up.  This would be strange for a cleric and her background, so I am certainly not suggesting the ranks at all.  I am merely stating that if this addition is acceptable to her background and since her hometown was small and destroyed and likely no longer exists ... she would receive no special knowledge of Quehalost over and above the other players.  That would help keep the beginning fair for everyone.

Let me know what you think.  Assuming we have an agreement on the placement of her background within the world of Enigmatica, assuming that you do not plan on adding any unusual equipment to her inventory beyond that which is printed in the PHB or DMG, and assuming that her character sheet is completed later this evening, then please feel welcome to join the IC thread.


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## Bront (Nov 29, 2005)

It was borderline, so I figured I'd ask.  No problem


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## Ferrix (Nov 29, 2005)

Excellent suggestions Nonlethal Force, that would really fit her well.  She would probably be too traumatized from her child to remember too much of the surrounding anyways, although you could always set up little mental flashbacks for her once in a while when she's in Quehalost.

I love when DM's help integrate a generic background into their world, really helps me tie in the character.

I'll fix the rest when I get home tonight.


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 29, 2005)

Cool.  Sounds good then.  I'll look forward to the sheet being done - I'm sure you will too!

As far as DM's working to integrate their world into the background ... I also commend the players here to having done that as well.  Part of what makes reading character backgrounds interesting is to see how the players chose certain aspects about the game world to incorporate into their background.  It makes typing up all that stuff in the other thread worthwhile.  I return the accolades and say well done one and all.


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## Bront (Nov 30, 2005)

Speaking of integrating a generic background, did you have an ideal city/region name for Ray?


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## Fenris (Nov 30, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Speaking of integrating a generic background, did you have an ideal city/region name for Ray?



How about San Luis Ray


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## Nonlethal Force (Nov 30, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Speaking of integrating a generic background, did you have an ideal city/region name for Ray?




Well, if Ray truly comes from a very publicly wealthy family, that of course begs to be placed near Hipposus.  That would be where the true nobles collect themselves so that they can be near the king and his court.  (This is in contrast to the wealthy who got that way on account of being a merchant - who would live in the region of their business and not have the luxory of living near the king.)

This also works because this is the part of the land that is known for being forested.  The other regions have forests, but they are more dominated by plains, marshes, and mountains.  The king's region is where a forest (and fun things like nymphs and dryads and other fey are most likely to be found).

As for a small villiage, either Sumersburg or Noon Port would work - both are relatively small for that area.  Either could easily house an out-of-the-way monastary where Ray could have grown away from public scrutiny.

That help?


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## Bront (Nov 30, 2005)

I named the small settlement, and it can fit in that area somewhere.  That sounds good, thanks


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Will finish her equipment tonight when I get home and post in the IC thread with your permission.




Ferrix,

Please find the time to finish your character and post.  The game is on hold just waiting for you.  I had hoped to have the game moving along by now - I know there are players who are being very polite in waiting.

If you are having trouble finding the time to finish the character sheet, let me know.  We can move the game on without you and find a way to integrate Kiera into the game at a later date if your schedule is really that tight.  Again, I don't say this to be mean, but I want to get the game moving.  This game was created under a post daily agreement and I would like to honor that as a DM.

Sorry to be hard-nosed about this issue.  I do hope you can find the time to finish the character sheet up so we can all begin together.


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## engrishonly (Dec 1, 2005)

If my posts aren't too coherent at the moment or I don't post much in the near future, it's because I have a 100 degree temperature and it's getting close to the end of my quarter at school.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> If my posts aren't too coherent at the moment or I don't post much in the near future, it's because I have a 100 degree temperature and it's getting close to the end of my quarter at school.




Well ... or we could chaulk it up to Eva being Eva, right?

On a serious note, though, I hope you are feeling better soon.  I hope you don't have what my wife and I had last month - I had it so bad it knocked me on my butt for about 2 weeks.  Mild fever, sinus infection, trouble sleepings cause I couldn't breathe, etc.  Anyway, post when you can, but I appreciate the heads up.  And get some sleep so you fight off the sickness easily!


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## Fenris (Dec 1, 2005)

Wusses, I ran a 103 fever for 3 weeks back in October. (Honestly-it sucked, so I hope you get better.)

NF, I will post amsuming Kiera is there and introduced. Ferrix can post his intro as he can.


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## Bront (Dec 1, 2005)

Ouch.

You're lucky.  I catch a cold, and I'm nearly bedridden with breathing problems, but I'm a severe asthmatic.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

Well, that is certainly acceptable as long as Kiera gets there eventually.  Go ahead and post.  Now that we've been on hold for a bit, it'll take a little bit to get everyone back up to steam anyway.  That'll give Ferrix a little time if he needs it.

Sounds like a plan.


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## Fenris (Dec 1, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Ouch.
> 
> You're lucky.  I catch a cold, and I'm nearly bedridden with breathing problems, but I'm a severe asthmatic.





Well the silver lining was I lost 15 pounds.    Kept it off too. Hell of a way to do it though.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

@ Fenris! (For the Sblock in the IC thread...)

Fenris:
[Sblock]I don't even know what biomes are!  Although, I'll assume that means the kind of animals, plantlife, etc that are in the area.  If so, it is a good and fair question so I will answer it.  The environment is primarily warm undergournd - but an occasional cold mountain/forest or temperate mountain/forest creature can be spotted)

The season is spring - when all good adventures begin, right?  Altitude is ... um ... above sea level!  [I wasn't prepared for this ... if you need an exact measurement I'll get back to you]

As far as the majority who make it through to the other side report there are the following underground threats grouped be CR: 

Trolls (near the entrances before it gets too warm)

Owlbears (not in the deep areas near the middle of the passage), Carrion Crawlers, Fungi

Gnoll tribe

Assorted animal packs: Wolves, Badgers, Boar, etc

Assorted Reptilian threats: Snakes (vipers/constrictors)

Assorted Vermin swarm: Spiders, Centipedes, Bombardier Beetles, Stag Beetles

And of course ... there are the 2% that don't return who find the threat beneath the mountain.  But that's only 2%[/Sblock]


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## Bront (Dec 1, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Well the silver lining was I lost 15 pounds.    Kept it off too. Hell of a way to do it though.



That's good.

I usually am just lucky to avoid hospitalization


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## Fenris (Dec 1, 2005)

NF
[sblock] See this is what you get for letting a biologist have ranks in Kn: Nature   

But yes, Biomes are general enviroments and reflect particular rainfalls, temperatures and plant life. Seems like we are in a temperature rain forest bordering on tiaga. I ask mostly for my own edification to help me visualize the surroundings

I have to warn you that I was once cursed by my players who wanted to hide in a tree and were told by me that since they were black oaks and not live oaks and are deciduous that they only had a few buds since it was early spring.   Oh the howls. Alomst as bad as when we found an egg and I asked the GM if it was leathery or calciferous.   

But knowing whether we are in oaks or pines is helpful to me. I won't even ask for specific kinds 

Altitude I hadn't asked for , but give me a rough idea    But I did ask for latitude by which I was trying to get a bead on the climate. Since we are more south of Barghost, how much warmer is it, if any. I don't know if you have really thought about global climates for your world and _*please * _ tell me to sod off if this is boring you or irrelevant or just stupid or makes you break out in hives. But I like to know these things.

So what is the general climate of Quehalost like? Or is it very chaotic   

[/sblock]


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## Fenris (Dec 1, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> That's good.
> 
> I usually am just lucky to avoid hospitalization




No, that's good.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

Fenris:

[sblock]


			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> NF
> See this is what you get for letting a biologist have ranks in Kn: Nature




Naw, you'll challenge me to paint a full world.  That is a good thing.  Please keep the questions/demands for information coming.   



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> I have to warn you that I was once cursed by my players who wanted to hide in a tree and were told by me that since they were black oaks and not live oaks and are deciduous that they only had a few buds since it was early spring.   Oh the howls. Alomst as bad as when we found an egg and I asked the GM if it was leathery or calciferous.




They don't know the difference between reptilian-like eggs and chicken-like eggs?  {Forgive my laymans understanding, that's as best as I could do on the fly...}



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> But knowing whether we are in oaks or pines is helpful to me. I won't even ask for specific kinds




Well, you won't get specific kinds cause I don't know them that well.  Fenneress/Quehalost is mostly pine with a few deciduous.  Think of the area of the country like Oklahoma/Texas/Mississippi/etc.  In general - because it is easiest for my mind to associate with what I know - think of Barghost as the same climate as the US from Kentucky/Virginia/Illinois and northeast.  Tongra is like Minnesota/Dakotas/Montana/Wyoming.  Quehalost is like West Texas/Colorado.  That's about right.  Quehalost would have more trees than West Texas does.  But the Colorado mountain range withe the quick rise in mountains with regard to the rockies is much more what I am going for than the rolling hills of the Appalachians.  The Appalachian-type mountains/hills would be in northern Barghost - in the mining region.

That help any?



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> Altitude I hadn't asked for , but give me a rough idea    But I did ask for latitude by which I was trying to get a bead on the climate. Since we are more south of Barghost, how much warmer is it, if any. I don't know if you have really thought about global climates for your world and _*please * _ tell me to sod off if this is boring you or irrelevant or just stupid or makes you break out in hives. But I like to know these things.




At this particular space, altitude is ... gosh ... I really don't know.  How high is Denver - something like 5,000 feet?  [Hence its nick-name of mile-high?]  I'd say currently the party is about halfway to Denver's altitude in RL.  To go over the "easy" pass they'll be climbing a good bit of that height into the snow capped mountains.  [That's why there aren't many predators up there - the climbs are tough and the temperature changes drastically with the steep increase in altitude.  [I hope that makes sense from a geologist's perspective]

As for the rest ... I think I answered that above with the US comparisons.



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> So what is the general climate of Quehalost like? Or is it very chaotic




As chaotic as the DM!  It rains when I want it to rain! 

[/sblock]


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## Ferrix (Dec 1, 2005)

*battles off the end of semester with a stick*

I even slept all night (accidentally) and still feel exhausted... ugh.

Updating her equipment now.


----------



## Ferrix (Dec 1, 2005)

Updated, is it alright to post in the IC?


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

Thank you, Ferrix.  I'll check over it when I go offline for a few hours and come back and let you know if there is anything that needs fixed.  But by all means, welcome to the game and go right ahead and post in the IC thread!


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

Ferrix:

[Sblock]I have a few questions regarding your character sheet:

1. You still have your armor class at 10.  I think it should be 19 if I am not mistaken.

2. I think you should turn Undead 9/day: 3 + 2(CHA) + 4(Extra Turning)

3.  You have your skillpoints listed as 29, although you correctly only took 28 ranks.  I think this is just a typ-o.

4.  I am curious as to how you priced out your mace.  By my tally, I get 5(base price) + 300(MWK) + 20 (Alchemical silver coating for light weapon) = 325.  That leaves 180 for the everburning quality?  What book is everbuening from, I couldn't find it....  I'm not saying you are wrong - just curious how you got your numbers here.  {Of course, if it were a magic item it could exude light for free ...}

5.  You list a vestment of resistance.  I am assuming that is a cloak of resistance just made into a vestment because it fits the cleric concept.  That's cool.  But if this is the case - don't forget to add the bonuses given by the item to your saves!

6.  How did you derive your price for the wand of Protection from Evil?  80% (Number of charges left) of 750 is 600 gold, not 575.  But I'm not saying I am correct, just wondering how you got your numbers again.

7.  Other than that ... I may have some questions about your gold, but that might be resolved once you explain the everburning torch part of your weapon.  

Cool?  Most of the alterations are actually in your favor! [/Sblock]


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## Ferrix (Dec 1, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Ferrix:
> 
> [Sblock]I have a few questions regarding your character sheet:
> 
> ...





[sblock]
I had downgraded the mace from a heavy mace to a lightmace, thus the silver cost went down and I forgot to change that.

The wand should be 600, mispriced it by one charge.

Vestment of resistance is just basically the vest of resistance from the Complete Arcane just with a different name.  Forgot to include the bonus ot saves.

I'll get on the other stuff as well later tonight.
[/sblock]


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 1, 2005)

Ferrix - Sounds good.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 2, 2005)

So ... that's two IC votes for the path through the mountains if I am counting correctly.  I'll give a bit of time till tommorrow for others to chime in with confirming or dissenting votes.

As we begin ... Remember that since I don't have an NPC as part of the group - group decisions need to be clearly stated.  So far, so good.


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## Ferrix (Dec 2, 2005)

I think it isn't so much as turning out as a vote, more as a follow the one guy who seems to know what he's talking about (Yavarin).


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## Bront (Dec 2, 2005)

Yup, that's about right.


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## Fenris (Dec 2, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> I think it isn't so much as turning out as a vote, more as a follow the one guy who seems to know what he's talking about (Yavarin).





See NF, I told you all those ranks in Bluff would come in handy


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## JonnyFive (Dec 2, 2005)

ok then, can i get a sence motive roll please


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## Bront (Dec 2, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> ok then, can i get a sence motive roll please



He's good, I get bonuses!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 2, 2005)

Okay ... _for the most part _ ... Yavarin is being honest.   

Now that'll really be good for party cohesion, won't it? 

... But sensing the party willing to follow Yavarin, we'll go with Yavarin's advice then.


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## Eluvan (Dec 2, 2005)

Hey guys, sorry I didn't post yesterday... got some kind of evil cold-type bug that pretty much knocked me out all yesterday evening. I'm feeling a lot better now though... I'll go catch up!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 2, 2005)

Hope you are feeling better, Eluvan.  

Sorry if I ended up posting before you got a chance to.  If so - don't worry about it.  Conversation can happen anywhere, I'm just painting a picture of what the party sees and feels around them in the world.


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## Eluvan (Dec 2, 2005)

Yeah, it's cool... I would have posted something prior to reaching the cave I guess, but I don't mind things being moved on. It's assumed that our characters have been chatting anyway, rather than just walking in silence for the last few hours.


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## Bront (Dec 2, 2005)

On a side note, do we have some sort of marching order other than the obvious (Who's going first)?


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## Fenris (Dec 2, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> On a side note, do we have some sort of marching order other than the obvious (Who's going first)?




Not yet, but we better figure one out. How about:

Yavarin (ahead to scout and MS)
Eva
Geeo
Kiera
Cassient
Brother Ray as rear guard

Thoughts?


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## Eluvan (Dec 2, 2005)

Works for me.


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## JonnyFive (Dec 2, 2005)

ug... put me at the front or back, i'm a tank (paladin)


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## Fenris (Dec 2, 2005)

JonnyFive said:
			
		

> ug... put me at the front or back, i'm a tank (paladin)




You and Eva both! I figure if we're side by side it'd be you and Eva up front in the main party, while I scout ahead quiet like. That leaves Kiera and Cassient as the second rank. Ray is mobile and fast enough that I left him in the back so he can move past you if needed. But we have 3 of you moving 20' so you will dictate the pace, and will need to be bunched up. We don't know how confined it will be in there yet, but I think a side by side will work thorugh most of it. I listed it as single file for those time when the space is squeezed. 

Trust me, if I see something, I am running back to you guys!


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## Bront (Dec 2, 2005)

Ray is fine wherever, though probably not well suited for front work.


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## Fenris (Dec 2, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Ray is fine wherever, though probably not well suited for front work.




Niether I am really. That's why I put you as the rear skirmisher


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## JonnyFive (Dec 3, 2005)

ah kk, sounds good then


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## engrishonly (Dec 4, 2005)

If Eva is not near/at the front, she will probably run past whoever is in front to get to the evil-doers!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 6, 2005)

Just a friendly DM reminder to the players ... since I don't have an NPC in game - the story is going to be driven on by your characters.  If some of you don't post IC - this is going to be a slow moving game!  Also, remember that all I can do is bring in NPCs for the players to interact with.  It is up to you all to interact with each other.

Fenris: As to your OOC request in the IC thread ... yes, I figured Yavarin is out in front.  [Aside - how is Yavarin seeing?  Lowlight vision doesn't help him underground all that well]  Anything in particular he is looking for?  Also - in the future, could you either Sblock your OOC posts or better yet put the OOC stuff in the OOC thread (unless they specifically pertain to part of your IC post)?  The reason I like the OOC stuff to be in the OOC thread is because this way I can respond in this thread openly - which is the purpose of this thread.  Additionally, too much OOC stuff in the IC thread (especially if not Sblocked) can lead to sidetracking and bogging down the game.  Thanks!


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## Bront (Dec 6, 2005)

I'm trying NLF 

I've found that IC interaction is often fueled by the little extras.  Ray saw Eva fidget, and he steped up.  He's calling her child (dispite the fact that he's quite young himself, though he appears sort of ageless, so this isn't an issue).  Don't be afraid to put the little extras, like head nods, body language, ect.  It makes it much easier to read a person's state of mind/intent.

on the other hand, since we have 6, I don't see a reason you can't push once 4 decide to go one way unless one of the ones who hasn't posted has pertinent information.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 6, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I'm trying NLF




I know ...   



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> I've found that IC interaction is often fueled by the little extras.  Ray saw Eva fidget, and he steped up.  He's calling her child (dispite the fact that he's quite young himself, though he appears sort of ageless, so this isn't an issue).  Don't be afraid to put the little extras, like head nods, body language, ect.  It makes it much easier to read a person's state of mind/intent.




Excellent advice.  I'll also try to do this with the NPCs as well.  If I don't when I post, please remind me to do it.  I'll hold you all to keep me honest in this regard as well.



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> on the other hand, since we have 6, I don't see a reason you can't push once 4 decide to go one way unless one of the ones who hasn't posted has pertinent information.




Oh - trust me.  The party has been pushed.


----------



## engrishonly (Dec 6, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I've found that IC interaction is often fueled by the little extras.  Ray saw Eva fidget, and he steped up.  He's calling her child (dispite the fact that he's quite young himself, though he appears sort of ageless, so this isn't an issue).  Don't be afraid to put the little extras, like head nods, body language, ect.  It makes it much easier to read a person's state of mind/intent.




I was trying not to make it the Eva and Brother Ray show with too many posts  Seems like it's picking up now that the work week has started again.

And I like throwing in those extras since there are things that you can do with PbP that you can't do as easily with tabletop play. Painting that whole picture of your character is just harder to do at the table than online with a text box, so I try to take advantage of it here.


----------



## Bront (Dec 6, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> I was trying not to make it the Eva and Brother Ray show with too many posts  Seems like it's picking up now that the work week has started again.
> 
> And I like throwing in those extras since there are things that you can do with PbP that you can't do as easily with tabletop play. Painting that whole picture of your character is just harder to do at the table than online with a text box, so I try to take advantage of it here.



I understand, but it's not that big of a deal if we get a couple of extra posts, just as long as we aren't preventing others from RPing or doing anything.  So a little side conversation won't kill anything.


----------



## Fenris (Dec 6, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Just a friendly DM reminder to the players ... since I don't have an NPC in game - the story is going to be driven on by your characters.  If some of you don't post IC - this is going to be a slow moving game!  Also, remember that all I can do is bring in NPCs for the players to interact with.  It is up to you all to interact with each other.
> 
> Fenris: As to your OOC request in the IC thread ... yes, I figured Yavarin is out in front.  [Aside - how is Yavarin seeing?  Lowlight vision doesn't help him underground all that well]  Anything in particular he is looking for?  Also - in the future, could you either Sblock your OOC posts or better yet put the OOC stuff in the OOC thread (unless they specifically pertain to part of your IC post)?  The reason I like the OOC stuff to be in the OOC thread is because this way I can respond in this thread openly - which is the purpose of this thread.  Additionally, too much OOC stuff in the IC thread (especially if not Sblocked) can lead to sidetracking and bogging down the game.  Thanks!




Fixed!


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## Fenris (Dec 6, 2005)

NF;
[sblock] Any further information on what hit me? A flaming arrow sticking out of my chest? Am I on fire? Just tryign to get a better bead on what it was. Was the path of the light striaght, parabolic or serpentine? [/sblock]


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 7, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> NF;
> [sblock] Any further information on what hit me? A flaming arrow sticking out of my chest? Am I on fire? Just tryign to get a better bead on what it was. Was the path of the light striaght, parabolic or serpentine? [/sblock]




Fenris:

[Sblock]Sorry, busy day.  As to what hit you.  Just a big ole ball of energy that hit you like a heat seeking missle.  Energy damage - but Yavarin is not on fire nor is there any damage to items, etc.  And it appeared to really come out of nowhere from way off. [/Sblock]


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## Fenris (Dec 7, 2005)

No sweat NF. Been busy for me as well. I felt bad holding everybody up. I left you some room to advance things as you like in my post.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 7, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I understand, but it's not that big of a deal if we get a couple of extra posts, just as long as we aren't preventing others from RPing or doing anything.  So a little side conversation won't kill anything.




Especially if they are conversation posts without a lot of actionin the post as well.  Conversation posts are always welcome - and they are realistic because a ton of conversation can happen in a very short amount of time.  Please feel free to converse as often as desired.  Don't ever feel like a post hog if all you are posting is conversation.  

As far as action goes ... I'll make sure that everyone gets a chance before allowing the action to go too far ahead too quickly.


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## Eluvan (Dec 7, 2005)

Here's the stats for the Giant Bee Cassient is summoning. On top of the listed stats it gets the Celestial template - Acid/Cold/Electricity resistance 5, SR 8, and Smite Evil 1/day for +3 damage.


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## engrishonly (Dec 7, 2005)

So is Yavarin back to the group now (and should I read the last sblock post)? 
I'm just wondering since everyone seems to be taking some very definite actions...


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## Eluvan (Dec 7, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> OOC: Please read Fenris' Sblock in his latest post to hear Yavarin's report when he manages to make it back to the party after being struck.




 So... yes.


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## engrishonly (Dec 7, 2005)

This is the part that isn't clear to me... "when he manages to make it back to the party after being struck."

I don't know if he's actually back or not between NF's posts & Fenris' posts.


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## Eluvan (Dec 7, 2005)

Really? Hmmmm. Seemed pretty clear to me that he had got back and delivered his report. I guess I see the ambiguity, but I'm pretty sure NLF just meant that we should read Fenris' SBlock to read what Yavarin says as he gets back.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 7, 2005)

Yes, Eluvan has it right.  Sorry to be confusing, Engrishonly.  I was just trying to direct everyone to read Feris' Sblock so that he didn't need to retype it for anyone.  And there is nothing overly private in there, he just Sblocked it to allow me the opportunity to decide if he made it back before getting bombarded again.  But please go ahead and read Yavarin's report back to the party about the energy source that struck him.

Edit: Thanks for posting the stat link, Eluvan.


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## engrishonly (Dec 7, 2005)

Well, it makes sense in context of NF's latest post... and after looking at Fenris' sblock post.

It just wasn't explicit enough for me, and I'll just mention that I'm very very averse to spoiling what's ahead so it has to be very clear if I need to read something in a sblock.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 7, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> Well, it makes sense in context of NF's latest post... and after looking at Fenris' sblock post.
> 
> It just wasn't explicit enough for me, and I'll just mention that I'm very very averse to spoiling what's ahead so it has to be very clear if I need to read something in a sblock.




All good, Engrishonly.  Actually, looking at what I wrote:



			
				NF said:
			
		

> OOC: Please read Fenris' Sblock in his latest post to hear Yavarin's report when he manages to make it back to the party after being struck.




I think the confusing part is I used the word "when" instead of something like "as" or "since."  But I can see how you were waiting for me to announce Yavarin made it bad before reading the post.  But that is clearly my fault for not being as clear as I should have been.


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## Eluvan (Dec 7, 2005)

Couple of quick queries regarding your latest IC post NLF - how wide is the side tunnel? And at what sort of angle does it diverge from the main tunnel?


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 7, 2005)

Good questions.  I should add an Sblock for Lowlight vision users that would allow them to see the tunel better.  As it is, the tunnel is currently right on the cusp of not being able to be seen because of its distance away from the party.

Edit:  Done, Eluvan, thanks for keeping me honest!


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## Eluvan (Dec 7, 2005)

Any time.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 8, 2005)

I'm willing to bet nobody saw that one coming.


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## Fenris (Dec 8, 2005)

Oh look, there goes a little english girl chasing a rabbit.   

Normal sized badger? 'Cuz we don't need no stinking badgers.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 8, 2005)

Yes, standard MM badger ... who happens to be talking to a Celestial Bee.


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## Fenris (Dec 9, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Yes, standard MM badger ... who happens to be talking to a Celestial Bee.




But is he really _saying_ anything?
No, I don't think so.


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## Eluvan (Dec 9, 2005)

Kudos. I expected many things from this game, but one of them absolutely was not a talking badger. You surprise and delight me


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 9, 2005)

Hey ... the party has to learn about the evil from someone.  Who better to tell the party about the evil in the land than a talking badger?


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 9, 2005)

No worries about the liberty taken, Eluvan.  In this case it works out okay.  In the future - if you take a liberty that upsets the game I'll tell you ... but I don't really see that coming up very often.  So no worries at all.


----------



## Bront (Dec 10, 2005)

I've taken a liberty or two.  Some things are easy, like making up a company name, or something like that.  It's rougher when you're talking about important figures.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 10, 2005)

Yeah ... things like _carriage companies _ that are very geographically local I don't really care much about as long as they are tasteful.  But national figures or shrines or stuff like that I do at least like to be consulted.  

Of course, part of the fun of being a player is learning the DM style.  Likewise for the DM learning the playing styles of the players, too.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 12, 2005)

BTW - just to recap since this is the first time I've used the colors and I know there are some players who don't want to read what they shouldn't:

Sienna - Used when a party splits up.  Thext that follows a Sienna list of names applies to only those names.  If more than one group is addressed, there will be more than one Sienna group of names.

Medium Turquoise - Used for Sblocks that only pertain to certain people.  This color will always precede an Sblock.  This means that only those listed in the Medium Turquoise list should read the Sblock.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 13, 2005)

Whew ... that was a tough first combat round post because of all the movement.  So - let me explain my rationale in case anyone had a question as to why I did what I did:

BTW - if anyone has a lantern lit, those equal to or behind them for 60 feet are allowed to use the run action according to my adjudication.  For some reason I confess I forgot who is providing light besides Brother Ray.  So, these are assuming Ray is the only light source for the moment.....

Ray - I did not allow Ray a run action since his light only extends out 20 feet and when running 20 feet is not alot of distance.  Since the PHB says running is only an option when you can see where you are going, I did not allow a run.  Instead, I did allow a double move.

Cassient - I did allow Cassient to run as long as Brother Ray's light was far enough ahead to give him perspective.  However, now that Cassient has caught up with Ray, running will not be an option since the light will only extend 20 feet ahead, and that is not much distance when running.  Thus, unless light is farther down the tunnel, Cassient will be limited to a double move as his maximum range.

Yavarin - To Skirmish, you must move 10 feet within the current round.  However, you may want to alter your round 2 attack given this knowledge and the map in the IC thread.  If so, go right ahead and post a new round 2 action.  I understand it is a bit difficult to figure things out without a map.

Geeo - Geeo was able to run for the first round, but as Ray (the only source of light I am currently aware of) heads down tunnel Geeo will not be allowed to run without some light.  (The PHB says running is only allowed if you can see where you are heading.)  If I somehow lost Eva's light and her lantern is still lit ... then Geeo can run so long as he can stay within 60 feet of her.

Eva - Eva was allowed to run for round one, but will not be able to run again unless a light source is brought near.  If Eva's bullseye lantern is lit, the previous sentence is in error and she will will be able to run indefinately (until she would become fatigued, of course).  If her lantern is lit, well, let me know.  No problems there, I just lost track of her lantern for some reson.

Kiera - So long as Kiera can provide 60 foot illumination (or stay within 60 feet of Eva if her lantern is lit) Kiera will be allowed to use the run action.


----------



## JonnyFive (Dec 13, 2005)

just a question, isn't eva's and geeo's speed the same? if so whe should be side by side


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 13, 2005)

Why, yes ... yes they are.  This is the reason spreadsheets are bad.  My spreadsheet automatically knocked Geeos' speed down to 15 - except that he is Aetos ... so that goes back up to 20.  I'll update the map, thanks for keeping me honest.

Edit: Change corrected, JonnyFive.  And, since Geeo had initiative over Eva, he was able to get to the spot beside Yavarin before her.  So technically he is ahead of her - unless you would like Geeo to allow her to go first.  If so, I can re-edit!   [Depending on light sources - that might not be a bad idea]


----------



## JonnyFive (Dec 13, 2005)

hehe make it easy, ready vs her moving to keep up/beside her


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 13, 2005)

Works for me.  Engrishonly - if Eva's light is still on and I just lost track of it, consider Geeo your personal shadow!


----------



## Bront (Dec 13, 2005)

No problem on the run thing.  A double move for Ray is still pretty darn good.


----------



## Eluvan (Dec 13, 2005)

Hmmm. I'm not sure what your take is on initiative, and how far actions complete themselves within their own initiative count.

 I realise it doesn't normally make much difference, but in this case it does since both Yavarin and Cassient are waiting for Ray to complete his move before they do anything themselves. If we were playing table top we wouldn't be waiting - Ray would go before us, and we'd act based on the information his turn revealed. But because this is PbP the DM's descriptive account of the actions and their results doesn't usually come until after everybody has stated their actions - which implies that Cassient and Yavarin would actually be forsaking their actions this turn entirely. 

 I'm assuming that won't happen, but what exactly is you preferred solution here NLF? Will you just post a brief account mid-turn of what we see as Ray charges down, or do we need to post contingent actions (as Fenris did)?


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 13, 2005)

Typically, I don't require everyone to post for a full round before putting the round of actions up.  As in this last round, I posted everyone's movement except Kiera's because Ferrix hadn't posted by the time I got on.  What I try to do to keep combat moving is post through the combat as far as the Init order allows me to go as per who has posted and who hasn't.

In terms of init and the round, Ray does have init over every PC except Yavarin.  So Ray wil be moving prior to everyone except Yavarin.  Of course, I always allow people to hold/ready and action as in the case of Yavarin this round.  As per Fenris' stated post, I will consider this a held action until after Ray continues down the tunnel.  Of course, that'll drop Yavarin in the Init Order until afte Ray.  But I don't think having a held action is really what you are loking for since Cassient technically comes after Ray in the Init Order anyway.

In the end, I typically suggest a conditional post such as this for these situations: (This is only a suggestion, feel free to change it to fit the context of character/situation)
[Sblock]A. Cassient will pause for a moment to let Ray get out front a little bit and then follow Ray as quickly as he can.  If Ray doesn't come upon the enemy, Cassient does a double move if necessary to remain behind Ray.

B. If Ray comes upon the adversaries and Cassient has only taken a single move action, then he will cast ______.  [Remember, Shorttooth gave the party a pretty good idea that these were gnolls the party was facing] 

C. Any other conditional action you can think of ... etc.[/Sblock]

Conditional actions such as that allow me to pick the one that makes the most sense using any information that comes up during the round - and keep the round going.  As a DM, I really appreciate conditional actions especially when the player is hem-hawing between what to do and new information could really impact that choice.  Ultimately, I'm not looking to make player's actions or movements look stupid.  If new information is revealed in other characters' turns that has a significant impact upon another player's action and that player hasn't posted conditional actions, I typically stop the round in that person's Init place and give them a chance to update their action.  I try to be pretty fair about it.  Of course, stopping at everyone's init place can make the rounds long - which is why I love conditional actions.

Especially in circumstances like this - you know, charging down the hall after the enemy, blind because you can't see, and at any moment that drag ... I mean gnoll ... might appear out of the darkness.    See, pretty fair indeed!


----------



## Bront (Dec 13, 2005)

Yup. Conditional actions are a good way to handle things.  And, obviously, there are times when the GM must allow the PC to change, or simply do what he thought the PC might have done.  

I had a PC drop mid combat, and no one was prepared, but his closes ally still had his action that round, and I had him move and administer a healing potion instead, since I thought that might be appropriate. 

Basicly, the GM has to be free to do a little of the PC's thinking since sometimes it's hard to predict the flow of the combat.


----------



## Ferrix (Dec 13, 2005)

Conditionals work well with me.  Was out of town for the weekend, getting back up to speed.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 13, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Conditionals work well with me.  Was out of town for the weekend, getting back up to speed.




Oh, that's cool, Ferrix - I saw your absent note and posted there just so you knew I saw it.  What I said about you not posting wasn't a complaint - just me saying that I posted the whole way through Round One of the combat up to Kiera's init and then I stopped to allow you a day to catch up or so.  (The fact that she was last was beneficial in this combat)


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 13, 2005)

Okay - as promised I did Kiera's end of round one action and then stopped after Ray's Round Two action on account of the new addition of material: the cloud.  Eluvan, Fenris: feel free to alter your actions if you so desire - no target has become visible except that odd little cloud.  JonnyFive, Engrishonly: I'll get to your character's movements in a little bit once Fenris and Eluvan have the opportunity to alter their actions or state that they chose to go through the cloud.


----------



## JonnyFive (Dec 13, 2005)

sounds good


----------



## Fenris (Dec 14, 2005)

Make mine double move essentially then.


----------



## Nonlethal Force (Dec 14, 2005)

Fenris - A full double move would have put Yavarin all the way up to the cloud.  Do you want to go further than where Cassient was standing?  Currently Yavarin is at (40) ... but he could have advanced the whole way up t the cloud and still be within range of his double move.  Totally your call.

Ferrix - I hope it was okay to assume Kiera would keep charging with Eva and Geeo.  I wasn't sure if you intended your post to be for round one, round two, or just a general order until an enemy can be spotted - but I figured Kiera didn't have many other choices besides moving.  However, if I was in error and you wanted Kiera to do something different, please let me know.  I'll be happy to edit. If having Kiera continue to move is alright, then ... onto round 3 we go!

Edit:

Bront - I forgot to put here that Ray does get an AoO against the swarm for moving into his space.  Just so you know.  Ray can take it if he wants - I'll gladly edit if he does want it.  However, I do not believe it will change his being hit.


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## Bront (Dec 14, 2005)

He'll take it, but it won't do any good I think.  They're immune to weapon damage aren't they?

Had a very bad experience with a bat swarm (A bat swarm and 3 wererats nearly took out our (1st level) party, and the GM who read my read action as a charge instead of an attack when in range and had my character killed by a reach weapon crit while that happened)


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 14, 2005)

Most swarms are immune to all damage - although not bat swarms because they are only diminutive .... no, wait.  That's odd.  The MM Bat swarm listing says they are diminutive but under Special Qualities it has then listd at half-damage from slashing and piercing.  However, the swarm subtype says that all diminutive and fine swarms are immune to all damage.  So you are right.  I was using the entry, but after looking at the subtype the entry is clearly wrong.     Sigh.  Sorry about that.  That'll teach me to use a stat block!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 14, 2005)

Well .. there we go.  Two gnolls have finally been revealed to the party!

A couple of notes:  

Fenris - my post above for Yavarin's movement is still in effect.  It may seem cheesey at this point, but technically Yavarin could be up as close as the misty cloud at the beginning of this turn and still be within the double move of last turn.  If you want Yavarin in a different place, just let me know and he'll be moved within the limits.  Also, remember that skirmish ability has to be a legit 10' move and not five foot forward and 5 foot back.  Although at the rate those gnolls are retreating I doubt that'll be an issue.

Ferrix, Engrishonly, JonnyFive - your run is drawing to a close!  If the same patterns keep up, they should close within 2 rounds or so.  I haven't put up Eva's or Geeo's actions as posted (thank you) for round three yet as Yavarin and Cassient both have init above them.  But they will go up.  Another thing to think about is that the tunnel is only 10 feet wide and they are coming up on two party members ahead of them - Cassient and Ray ....


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## Eluvan (Dec 14, 2005)

Going to keep a current status record here, if that's okay - spells used, damage taken, and so on. 

 Spells cast - 

 1 x level 1

 1 x level 2

 Items used -

 2 x charge on wand of Magic Missile

 HP: 13/21


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## Fenris (Dec 14, 2005)

OK, I am a bit confused does the map reflect any movement for me this turn yet? I am just confused. 

So I want to move as much as possible but still shoot at the gnolls. NF, you can figure out how to do that.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 14, 2005)

Fenris - Here's what happened.  In Round Two you said to put Yavarin up to where Cassient was at that point, but you also said to use a double move.  In Round Two (before he moved) Cassient was at (40) on the map.  However, moving just up to where Cassient was isn't near what a double move could have gotten Yavarin in Round Two.  If Yavarin wanted, he could have gotten all the way up to (00) by using a double move.  So - I was a bit confused as to how close you wanted Yavarin in Round Two.  Now, in Round Three we are at Yavarin's Init order - so you are correct in assuming there is no movement portrayed on the map for Yavarin in Round Three yet.  I just need to know how close Yavarin wants to get.  Here are the extremes and he could go anywhere between these:

_Closest Yavarin could get and still fire:_ Technically, he could be at (00) from his double move in Round Two and move to (-40) and still fire off a shot if you want him that close.  Keep in mind that (-40) is still 70' from the gnolls, so it isn't like it is that close.  

_Furthest Yavarin could be and still get skirmish bonus:_ Yavarin could stay where he is and only advance 10' forward and be at (30).  That would put him 140' away ... which is into a second range increment for the bow.  

Here's an easier way of asking the question.  Yavarin could be between 70' and 140' from the gnolls and be able to fire so that his skirmish bonuses apply.  How far would you like him to be?  You tell me the distance, and I'll put him there.    Oh - and anything within the first range increment of the bow means passing through the misty cloud, just for your info.


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## Fenris (Dec 14, 2005)

R2 Double move
R3 40' move then fire at gnoll 2.

Leaving me having passed through the mist but not yet entered the swarm area. I think that squares it up.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 14, 2005)

Woo-Hoo!  I think we're on the same page now.  Thanks for your patience, Fenris.  I can sometimes be anal about the numbers.  Comes from being a former math teacher....


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## Fenris (Dec 14, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Woo-Hoo!  I think we're on the same page now.  Thanks for your patience, Fenris.  I can sometimes be anal about the numbers.  Comes from being a former math teacher....




Well, since you're talking to a scientist, I can completely understand.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 14, 2005)

Maniacal DM Laughter ensues:  MWAHAHAHAHAHA.

*cough*

What?

Anyway - about the game.  I think I have everyone's actions as posted.  We are currently stopped and Kiera's place in the Init Order.  I am assuming Ferrix will just have her try to run through the cloud ... but I assumed for Round Three and don't want to assume for too many rounds in a row.  I also believe I have taken care of everyone's actions.  After Ferrix posts, the gnolls will get to act and then it's on to the players part in Round Four.

See ... I told you I like to have combat fly at a fast pace so long as everyone posts regularily.     Thanks to all who are doing their job and making my job easier!  

JonnyFive:
[Sblock]Geeo's movement was obviously slowed by a failed FORT save in going through the cloud.  That means he could not run due to his fatigued status.  However, he still could double move.  A double move would have placed him within the swarm at (-40).  I made a DM call and figured you would not want that.  So I put him at (-35) just on this side of the swarm.  However, since the information about the cloud is new to you since you last posted, technically you can have Geeo stop his movement anywhere between (-10) outside the cloud and (-40) where he could have gotten with a full double move.  Depending on what you think the swarm will do, you might want to consider where on the map you want Geeo to stop.  Remember, he could be anywhere from (-10) to (-40).  And before you ask, the cloud is stationary.[/Sblock]


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## JonnyFive (Dec 14, 2005)

[sblock=Nonlethal Force] sounds good, does geeo think he can hurt the swarm with his mace? if so he will attack them, if not he will just try to move through them as fast as he can[/sblock]


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 15, 2005)

JonnyFive:
[Sblock]Okay, then I'll leave him where he is.  As far as Geeo thinking he could hurt them with his mace - the fact that there are hundreds - if not thousands - of bats in the swarm I think that it is pretty safe to assume that even if he could hurt them that he'd be pretty confident that he couldn't hurt ALL of them before they got to him.  He'd more than likely know enough to try and get through them and hope they don't chase him down![/Sblock]


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## Bront (Dec 15, 2005)

I'm confused, I thought I made my fort save and therefore was not nausiated?


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## engrishonly (Dec 15, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Works for me.  Engrishonly - if Eva's light is still on and I just lost track of it, consider Geeo your personal shadow!




I don't think I've ever shut the lantern, so Eva's light should be on


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 15, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> I'm confused, I thought I made my fort save and therefore was not nausiated?




Well, you did.  And then you didn't.  Ray was subject to two FORT saves - one that everyone was subject to - the cloud.  That save was against becoming fatigued.  However, any time a player begins a round in the midst of a swarm, they must make a FORT save vs. becoming nauseated.  That save Ray failed.  It was probably because the saves came in one turn and then in the next turn that it was confusing.  One was for fatigue - the other was for naseau.

Sorry if I didn't make that clear in the posts.  With all this running, underground lack of visibility, and magical effects going on it has been hard to explain everything to just the people who have knowledge of it.

However, the naseau only lasted until Ray got out of the swarm.  So he was only naseated for the round that he began in the swarm.

Is that clear or am I just babbling.  I am kinda tired and not sure its making a ton of sense here....

And Engrishonly - I did go back through the posts and Eva was never stated as closing the shutter, so I have been treating it as open.  Hence why she has been allowed to run all these rounds.


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## Bront (Dec 15, 2005)

Ok, that makes sense.  Just making sure


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 16, 2005)

Fenris - I hope you didn't mind NPCing Yavarin's attack.  I assumed Yavarin would be greatful to receive the honor of doing the final blow.

Ferrix, JonnyFive - I'll get to your actions for Round Five once Eluvan has a chance to post whether or not Cassient wants to use a wandstrike, his magic, or just let the combat go on without Cassient for a round!  Didn't want you to think you were forgotten.

Bront - If you would like to alter your action to one of attack instead of helping the dying gnoll in light of these new circumstances, please feel free to do so.  If I remember right you did post a conditional, so I am inclined to use that expression of attack against the new threat as well.  If that's cool, then no need to worry.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 17, 2005)

Eluvan:
[Sblock]Okay - I've had a long day so I may be completely wrong. If so, forgive me.  But for some reason I have Cassient at a ranged touch attack at +3 (+1 from DEX and +2 from BAB).  I don't have him down as having Point Blank Shot ... so what did I miss to get him to +4?  (Either way in game it is a miss - so it won't affect the game thread.  I just want to double check my numbers.  

Also, I am assuming Cassient is casting lesser orb of cold.  So his caster level is 5 and it would do 3d8 - That part I am cool with.  Just wondering about the +3 or +4 to attack.  

Oh - and delay is what I meant, not ready.  You taking an action this round is completely acceptable.  Thanks for not letting my words confuse you![/Sblock]


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## Bront (Dec 17, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Bront - If you would like to alter your action to one of attack instead of helping the dying gnoll in light of these new circumstances, please feel free to do so.  If I remember right you did post a conditional, so I am inclined to use that expression of attack against the new threat as well.  If that's cool, then no need to worry.



You did good.  He will not risk his friends to save an obviously evil dying enemy who attacked first.  It was more to let you know what he'd do if combat was done by the time it was his turn.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 17, 2005)

Engrishonly - no need to post yet - unless you are posting for two rounds in advance because you are going to be offline for some reason.  In combat, you only need to post a new action after one of my "summary" posts declares the effect of the action you posted last.  So, for example, ROUND FOUR (I think - the round when Eva was attacked) had the init order something like this:

Eva (move forward and hold position)
gnoll (surprise attack from the side - not surprise as in flatfooted, just plain old didn't know it was coming)
Cassient (delayed action from earlier in the round)
Geeo (running up and is almost there)
Kiera (Also run forward and is almost there)

After going through Kiera's action, ROUND FIVE began:

Ray (Flurry)
Yavarin - as of yet unposted.  

Once Fenris posts Yavarin's action the init order will then be back to Eva where I will post the first of her power attacks.  As of right now, however, that action hasn't yet taken place.

Please don't take this as criticism.  PbP combat can take a while to get used to - and often many DMs do it differently.  The most effective way to figure out if you need to post an action is to find my last "combat summary post" where Eva is mentioned.  (A combat summary post is one of my posts with ROUND ____ somewhere in it)  If you have posted since that post of mine, you are all set to go for the upcoming round and Eva's next action.  If you haven't, then that means I'll have to stop at Eva's init order when I get there.  But for right now ... you are good to go.


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## engrishonly (Dec 17, 2005)

Ok, no problem. Wasn't sure if Eva had simply missed the previous round, or if she hadn't acted... so it's good to have this clarification.

In any case, it's safe to assume Eva will be conducting the same attack until this particular gnoll is down and/or a pulpy mess on the ground. There's a lot of Christmas shopping left to do since we got our Secret Santa assignments a little late here    so I might be away for a bit.

And I am starting to put together my next campaign right now - the mechanics of it are starting to get too complicated (all set in an asteroid belt, so everything is in motion relative to each other). It's time to cut back right now, set the important parts in motion, and then start adding the other pieces... the shifting geography is a challenge, but maybe I can use it later for extraplanar adventures with D&D...


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## Bront (Dec 17, 2005)

engrishonly said:
			
		

> ... is down and/or a pulpy mess on the ground. There's a lot of Christmas shopping left ....



There's two sentances that don't belong next to each other.


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## JonnyFive (Dec 17, 2005)

sorry NLF, i was just wating to get in combat range


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 17, 2005)

Not a problem.  Geeo's almost there and may well strike a definitive blow.  [Lord knows he's earned it after that long run.]


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 17, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Ray will either:
> 
> A) Attack the other gnoll, with a flurry of blows, if he's still up,
> or
> ...




Well, if your character weren't so one sided....   

Oh - and I'll get a post up in the IC thread tomorrow.  Too ........ tired........  Rystil worked me too hard with character background for another game ....  [Just kidding RA if you happen to read this!]


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## Bront (Dec 17, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, if your character weren't so one sided....
> 
> Oh - and I'll get a post up in the IC thread tomorrow.  Too ........ tired........  Rystil worked me too hard with character background for another game ....  [Just kidding RA if you happen to read this!]



Yeah, he's just so one dementional. 

And no problem on the RA thing, I'm finshing my writeup.  There's some odd stuff in it, but it's not realy off limits if you can play it down.

I'm looking forward to a game with you as a player NLF.


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## Eluvan (Dec 17, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Eluvan:
> [Sblock]Okay - I've had a long day so I may be completely wrong. If so, forgive me.  But for some reason I have Cassient at a ranged touch attack at +3 (+1 from DEX and +2 from BAB).  I don't have him down as having Point Blank Shot ... so what did I miss to get him to +4?  (Either way in game it is a miss - so it won't affect the game thread.  I just want to double check my numbers.
> 
> Also, I am assuming Cassient is casting lesser orb of cold.  So his caster level is 5 and it would do 3d8 - That part I am cool with.  Just wondering about the +3 or +4 to attack.
> ...




 Whoops! It was indeed Lesser Orb of Cold, and I meant +3. Sorry  

 A question - have you handwaved cover as too hard to keep track of in PbP, or is it just going on behind the scenes? The fact that Yavarin's been shooting effectively despite having all of us blocking his line of sight makes me think maybe the cover rules aren't in effect, but I thought I should check before continuing to waste spells if the blocked LoS means that I stand no chance of landing them.


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## Fenris (Dec 17, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> Whoops! It was indeed Lesser Orb of Cold, and I meant +3. Sorry
> 
> A question - have you handwaved cover as too hard to keep track of in PbP, or is it just going on behind the scenes? The fact that Yavarin's been shooting effectively despite having all of us blocking his line of sight makes me think maybe the cover rules aren't in effect, but I thought I should check before continuing to waste spells if the blocked LoS means that I stand no chance of landing them.





That is why I skipped Rapid Shot for Precise Shot!


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## Eluvan (Dec 18, 2005)

Ah... kinda. Precise shot would help you with firing into the melee between Eva and the gnoll - but I think normally the gnoll would still have benefited from cover against your attacks, since you couldn't see it properly with Gheeo and Kiera in the way.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 18, 2005)

Edit1: Not happy witht he response to Eluvan, so I'll try again.  The question is very good.

Yes, I do take cover into account.  And yes, it is totally behind the scenes.  Sometimes when a normally assured shot from a ranged character flies into the wall instead it is because of cover.  But I do assume a few things:

1. With properly posted maps, the players should be able to figure out if cover is in their favor or not.

2.  Cover typically only buys the character a +4 to AC.  While this is significant, these have been warm-up battles for the PCs ... 

So, I guess in the long run, Yavaran striking with the opponents behind cover is not really surprising.  He is quite an excellent shot - and precise shot does help some.  But, Yavarin has also had a few nice rolls, too.  But yes, cover is taken into account.  If you have any questions during the game about a cover situation, just ask away.  Or, if you want to make sure I am taking into account a cover situation that affects your PC ... just put it in an Sblock as Engrishonly did for his last attack with Eva.  Any of that type of stuff you want to put in there is appreciated.

Edit 2: Still not entirely happy.

A couple other things to consider.  Geeo (no offense intended, JonnyFive) technically falls under the "low obstacle" category size the guy is a small character and the gnoll is, well, not.  Since Yavarin is closer to Geeo than the Gnoll, he receives no cover from Geeo.  As to the rest of your characters - yes, you do provide cover for one another as described in the PHB.

In general, I do try and stick to the "cover provides a +4 to AC" rule.  Soft Cover (cover from other living, moving, gyrating (?) creatures) never gets ruled as being eligible for Total Cover since the soft cover "combatants" are technically always in flux of movement.  To receive Total Cover, one must be behind a solid wall, a significant tree, or some other large (probably) immovable object that is larger than your character's body.

Now, I think this gives an answer to Cassient's spell dilemma.   A good rule of thumb is to "hypothesize" a probable AC for the enemy and add 4 to it is they have cover.  Then, evaluate the character's ability to strike.  If reasonable, go for it.

Oh - one more thing.  The comment I made earlier about the spell being a miss either way had nothing to do with cover ... it had everything to do with the fact that the die came up as a 2.  Even without considering cover Cassient would not have succeeded on a ranged touch attack.

But as I said before, this is a good question.  Hence, why it has taken me 2 edits to get comfortable with my answer.


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## Eluvan (Dec 18, 2005)

Okay, great. Thanks for the thorough answer.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 18, 2005)

I'm glad the answer satisfied you.  Sometimes things like that are difficult to explain all the rules here and there and everywhere!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 19, 2005)

Okay - one of the busiest weekends of my life is now over.  So ... I'll be back to my regular posting habits now.

We have a few things to discuss as a party:  

First, now that combat is over, please feel free to post conversation style and as often as you desire.

Second, The party has now earned experience for the first time.  So this is a good time to bring it up.  How would you like me to handle handing out experience?  After each battle?  Periodically when the DM feels like it?  Only at level up?  Or somewhere in between these options?  It matters not for me, personally.  My other games only get it periodically, so if you want constant updates after each battle you all might need to remind me until I get in the habit, but I do not mind.

Third, How did that combat feel to everyone - especially those of you new to PbP combat?  Were you able to follow my lead as a DM and follow it well?  [I realize a few of you didn't do much besides run alot - sorry.  But that was effected by the tactical selection of the party, too.]  May I add, I really enjoyed the verbal flourishes you all put in describing your actions.  Assuming they do not go over-the-top (like something out of Crouching Tiger Hidden Dragon) without legitimate reason (like a haste spell) I would greatly appreciate that kind of posting to continue.  Big thumbs up to all of you.  I also really enjoyed how many of you spoke during combat as well.  The more you all describe your own actions the less I have to and the easier my job is because I only have to post the results of the actions.

Anyway ... I hope that combat felt okay.  Good job!


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## Fenris (Dec 19, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Okay - one of the busiest weekends of my life is now over.  So ... I'll be back to my regular posting habits now.




You're preaching to the choir! I should be back to normal here soon as well.

As for XP, whatever works for you.


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## Ferrix (Dec 19, 2005)

Indeed choir it is...

On the XP front whatever works for you.

The combat was a bit dry for some of us in heavy armor, although position was entirely to blame.  So no fault of anyone really.  Hopefully it'll be a bit more involved in the future.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 19, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> The combat was a bit dry for some of us in heavy armor, although position was entirely to blame.  So no fault of anyone really.  Hopefully it'll be a bit more involved in the future.




Let's hope indeed!  I imagine if every battle has Ray and Cassient as the front liners - this will be a short campaign indeed!  Oh - and - the enemy will not always use hit-and-run tactics.  However ... if the party gets a reputation for being slow, the more organized enemies will use that to their advantage!


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## JonnyFive (Dec 19, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Let's hope indeed!  I imagine if every battle has Ray and Cassient as the front liners - this will be a short campaign indeed!  Oh - and - the enemy will not always use hit-and-run tactics.  However ... if the party gets a reputation for being slow, the more organized enemies will use that to their advantage!





yea... 6 rounds of runnin fer a PA crit.... i'm happy, but still, i'm thinkin a horse would be a good idea, or a pony in my case.


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## Bront (Dec 19, 2005)

Ferrix said:
			
		

> Indeed choir it is...
> 
> On the XP front whatever works for you.
> 
> The combat was a bit dry for some of us in heavy armor, although position was entirely to blame.  So no fault of anyone really.  Hopefully it'll be a bit more involved in the future.



Yeah, it was Ray's through to either get pelted, retreat, or charge.

Not his usuall or prefered tactics (which is to not fight realy, but beyond that...)

BTW, NLF
[sblock]Ray will never mention looting bodies or other such things, and won't bother unless he knows they have uncommon wealth that could make a difference.  He doesn't think of material things, so looting or rummaging over those he's faught won't cross his mind too often.  Just an FYI[/sblock]


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## engrishonly (Dec 19, 2005)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Second, The party has now earned experience for the first time.  So this is a good time to bring it up.  How would you like me to handle handing out experience?  After each battle?  Periodically when the DM feels like it?  Only at level up?  Or somewhere in between these options?  It matters not for me, personally.  My other games only get it periodically, so if you want constant updates after each battle you all might need to remind me until I get in the habit, but I do not mind.
> 
> ...
> 
> Anyway ... I hope that combat felt okay.  Good job!




I think the periodically plan makes the most sense for XP. When there's a logical "End of Chapter" or something - any time where we might close out one phase, get some rest, and move ahead. Otherwise, it's too much bookkeeping for my tastes  although I know some people like tallying up XP as soon as it is earned.

Combat was fine for me. I enjoy when the enemy says things to annoy or insult us... then Eva can go into her righteous fury and say things back while doing the "Eva swings her sword" deal.

And I also wish we could have been mounted... carrying that spear around as a battle standard doesn't work as well as a lance because it's just extra baggage for Eva, and my feats are mostly in Bastard Sword. I think Eva will conveniently forget to pick up that spear...


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## Bront (Dec 19, 2005)

I should chime in on XP.

Award it whenever you feel it's appropriate.  That seems best, as you can work in RP bonuses, and other such things as needed.


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## Eluvan (Dec 19, 2005)

Yup, I'm not in any rush to tally up XP. I'd be happy to work that out at logical points in the story, or just whenever you get round to it I suppose. 

 The combat was pretty good for me, no complaints there. I find your posts easy enough to follow, and the maps are a help even if they're not that pretty.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 19, 2005)

Eluvan said:
			
		

> The combat was pretty good for me, no complaints there. I find your posts easy enough to follow, and the maps are a help even if they're not that pretty.




Just what are you saying about those maps?!?     I work long and hard on those ...

yeah, I know they're not pretty!   

Thanks for the input on XP.  I'll hand it our periodically, then.  In the lower levels I'll usually try to not really mention XP until you're about 1/2-way to level-up.  That'll let you know you're progressing. Then, I usually tell people when they are getting close, like 3/4 level-up.  That will also give you some time to think about the next level, so that when the level actually occurs you are prepped.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 21, 2005)

Fenris - I think Ray is stuck waiting for an answer from Yavarin before speaking again.

JonnyFive, Ferrix - do Geeo and Kiera have anything at all to say about which direction the party heads?


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## Bront (Dec 21, 2005)

Sorta.  I know when to move on, because it happens occasionaly that someone can't post a responce.


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## Fenris (Dec 21, 2005)

Sorry guys, sick again. On it now.


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 21, 2005)

Bront said:
			
		

> Sorta.  I know when to move on, because it happens occasionaly that someone can't post a responce.




Well, sure, that sometimes happens.  But given the chance I'd rather complete the conversation if possible.

Oh, and Fenris - regarding your post IC - I've nothing to add.  You pretty much summed up what Yavarin knows about the side tunnel.


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## engrishonly (Dec 22, 2005)

I'll be out of town over the weekend... although I suspect I won't be the only one.

Merry Christmas!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 22, 2005)

Thanks for letting me know.  Enjoy the holidays!


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 23, 2005)

Fenris - as per your OOC Sblock question - that sounds like a hypothesis to me.  And, being a science person you know what to do with a hypothesis.  So long as you are confident of your hypothesis.  [In other words, you'll get no new information from me at this distance!   ]


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## Nonlethal Force (Dec 27, 2005)

I hope that each of you had a wonderful Christmas - and if nothing else were given some time to relax.

Welcome back!  Let the games ensue!


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## engrishonly (Dec 27, 2005)

Back again... got what I wanted from Santa because I had to pick it out for myself


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## Nonlethal Force (May 10, 2006)

Unless people object, I think I am going to close this game rather than try and resurrect it.  The game never took off like I had hoped and posting seemed forced from my perception.  If everyone objects to this, let me know.  I can submit to group desire.  But barring strong object, I am planning on allowing this game to pass on as a lost game due to data base malfunction.


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## Bront (May 10, 2006)

I loved the concept, but I never quite clicked with Ray and anyone else, which draws it in for me.  His VoP never seemed like an issue in the foreign land, since they were sort of overty forced anyway.

Anyway, I'd love to try something else, but yes, I think this is best layed to rest, with lost characters, and now this.

Thanks for everything though NLF


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## Nonlethal Force (May 10, 2006)

Well, if you are into Quehalost and the possibilities within ... might I direct you to my Story Hour?  

And thanks for your honest reply.  Some games just don't click.  I've started three.  Two of them are thriving.  I consider myself quite lucky, actually.


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## Bront (May 10, 2006)

I tried, and I wasn't going to let it fail on my account.  That's all I can do.  I was clicking with Eva but...

I'll check it out at some point.

I Ray is interesting enough for you to use him at some point, story hour, NPC or otherwise


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## Nonlethal Force (May 10, 2006)

Bront said:
			
		

> If Ray is interesting enough for you to use him at some point, *story hour*, NPC or otherwise



(bolding emphasis mine)

Hehehe ...

I might just do that.  Ray would make a good baratzu in the Story Hour ...    



			
				Bront said:
			
		

> I was clicking with Eva but...




Well, then perhaps it is best for Ray that the game end.  Eva was headed for certain disaster on account of her inability to make a WILL save at a pitiful rate.


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## Fenris (May 10, 2006)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Unless people object, I think I am going to close this game rather than try and resurrect it.  The game never took off like I had hoped and posting seemed forced from my perception.  If everyone objects to this, let me know.  I can submit to group desire.  But barring strong object, I am planning on allowing this game to pass on as a lost game due to data base malfunction.




I object! Well until you tell us what was in the tree   

I'll echo Bront mostly here. The party never seemed to click. While I loved playing Yavarin, logicstics with some players made the game, disconnected.

While I would wish it to continue, I can understand and certainly respect your decision. If the games isn't fun for you, how can it be for us.

Now. I think you need to run a game for just Bront and I.    







No, seriously.


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## Bront (May 10, 2006)

I do think a more grounded game, perhaps one where prior relationships could have been estabilished, and the goal was a little less of a reach.  For example, the Eberron game that we had for a short time where we had the 2 sort of star crossed lovers, or even your Mightier than the Sword, where there is a common goal to gather us.

If you do start another game, I'd only hesitate to join just due to load, but I would certaintly love to.

And no, in my ideal world, I would have loved the debates between Eva and Ray, as Ray tries to calm the wild child, while she listens intstead to the voices of action in her head.  With the origional player, that dynamic was going, and he stoped it short (by not wanting to hog the attention) and then left shortly afterwards.

But yes, if Fenris is interested in some game, I'm up for it.  It need not be us too, but a small group would be good.  Perhaps RA (he should be done soon with school) and D20Dazza as potental alternates, both are regular posters, and enjoyable RPers 

Fenris, did we loose the end of Metropolis?


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## Nonlethal Force (May 10, 2006)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Now. I think you need to run a game for just Bront and I.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> No, seriously.




I don't anticipate starting up any new PbP games soon.  I don't anticipate joining any, either.  Between my two current DM games and my two current player games (and I don't know if KoD and AS are continuing ... I assume KoD is, though) I think I have enough PbP to worry about.

I have seriously contemplated getting a game together through a chat board or such - it would make the game flow better if everyone was on and dedicated to the game online for a certain period of time.  However - outside of a game such as that I don't anticipate doing any more PbP games.  I'm going to attempt to take the time I spent on this game and make Mightier and CLutches all the better.


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## Fenris (May 10, 2006)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> I don't anticipate starting up any new PbP games soon.  I don't anticipate joining any, either.  Between my two current DM games and my two current player games (and I don't know if KoD and AS are continuing ... I assume KoD is, though) I think I have enough PbP to worry about.
> 
> I have seriously contemplated getting a game together through a chat board or such - it would make the game flow better if everyone was on and dedicated to the game online for a certain period of time.  However - outside of a game such as that I don't anticipate doing any more PbP games.  I'm going to attempt to take the time I spent on this game and make Mightier and CLutches all the better.




I will be in the corner sulking and pouting   

 

If you do decide to do a chat board game, I would at least be interested. The timing would be the main issue. But if you do, let me know.

And I still want to know what was in the tree! 


Bront: Yes, I think we did lose Metropolis. Although if they get the other back-up working we may be able to recover it.


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## Bront (May 11, 2006)

*Taran waves his hand, and it's like it was before* 

No problem NLF, I understand the need to manage your time.  KoD is continuing, yes.  And as far as a chat game, That I can't do.


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## Nonlethal Force (May 11, 2006)

Fenris said:
			
		

> And I still want to know what was in the tree!





Well, what was up in the tree was a  .


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## Fenris (May 11, 2006)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Well, what was up in the tree was a  .




Oh no, not a five headed smiley-hydra!


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## Nonlethal Force (May 11, 2006)

Well, okay.  Now that I am sure Ferrix and JonnyFive are not too concerned about the game being dropped - since both have been on and not posted here - I'll assume this game is officially dead.  That being said, the party was in fact being led into a harpy nest.

I had wondered if it was obvious from the CR and the fact that the party was led away by singing.

Actually, this was just the beginning of a really cool plot line.  Once Eva was slain - most likely falling off the edge of a cliff at the whim of the harpy since here WILL save was just horrible - the party was going to meet up with a nervous human male.  Well .. at least he appeared human.  As to whetehr or not he actually was human .... anyway, I digress.  The human was going to be part of the harpy's "food store."  Barely alive.  The hook was for Kiera to be able to heal him just enough for him to indicate that if they can free him, he can be a guide out of the harpy's domain.  He planned on helping the party until such a time as he earned the party's trust.

The catch is, once he earned the party's trust he was going to ever so cleverly lead them into Quehalost on a scouting mission.  He'd know enough of the rights ways to go to make the party grateful he was along, but there'd have been enough intention "close-encounters" with the wrong kind of folk to help the party believe that he was honestly on their side.  Eventually, the party would have been led into the man's trap: Devils.  And a mighty big nest of them, too.

Of course, that is all assuming the party wanted to follow the man.  As the party demonstrated earlier:

they weren't going to bite on the gnolls in the cave (although if Yavarin or anyone else would've climbed down they'd have found humans that needed rescued - and enough adventure to get them to the next level)

they weren't going after Mayhem (although if they had they might've gotten into enough trouble that they'd have leveled twice to get free of Mayhem - or died trying.)

and they weren't about to even try to free the Drakontos villagers of the grasp of the Black Dragon.  Not that challenging the black dragon would've been wise - because It'd have been a TPK all the way.  But convincing a few of the villagers to flee might've proven interesting.  I think Cassient would've played a huge part in this and unfortuantely this path never unfolded because that was when Eluvan went AWOL.  Had Eluvan actually stuck with the game that might have come out more in the conversation.

... so, I guess the likelihood of the party actually following the man was really unlikely after all.  But I honestly did have things planned for you all to do if you'd have wanted!


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## Neurotic (Jan 7, 2008)

*Resurrection*

I know you said it's dead, but I posted cleric just in case you decide to resurrect your game. It seems interesting enough, I'll need to read some more into it


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## Bront (Jan 10, 2008)

NLF halted all his PbPs due to his lack of time.  There's another game in line to start up before this one, which petered out with both players and GM.

On a side note, it's probably more polite to post the character in the OOC thread first in case it's declined.  Not a big deal, but something to be aware of in the future


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## Neurotic (Jan 11, 2008)

*Politeness*

Thank you, I'm aware of that. BUT. In RG it says he's accepting (finished) alternates and since there is closed thread mark I didn't think I'll impunge on used rogues gallery.

But, still, I'll try to notify DM first in the future regardless.


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## Bront (Jan 13, 2008)

Ahh, been a long time, I wasn't aware.  You'd probably have been fine if he was still watching.


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## Nonlethal Force (Jan 14, 2008)

Hey, I wondered if there had been any activity in the old threads ... oddly enough I was wondering it just now.

*Neurotic* - Thanksforthe interest, although the game is closed.  Sorry.

_*Bront*_ - Hey man, long time no see!  How's married life treating you? Hopefully still good?  Thanks for keeping up with the old thread!

In case anyone was wondering how it is that I just dropped off of the face of the earth - I've largely put 3.x behind me in the core rulebok sense.  I'm in the midst of rewritting the 3.x game for my personal taste.  I've also finished the story hour I was writing ... and a second one after that.  I've also completed a story that I hope to have published and am about 1/3 of the way done with its sequel.  Anyone who knows a literary agent is welcome to contact me!  <-- Shameless plug.   

Back to my rewriting of the 3.x ruleset ... It's a classless game, where all class abilities have been stripped out of class and given prerequisites (if necessary) and level minimums.  XP is earned just like 3.x, and levels continue to exist at thesame XP totals as the 3.x table.  However, XP isaccumulated and spent at a player's leisure, buying options for their character whenever they have accumulated enough.

Former class abilities costs XP to purchase.  Feats are also purchased with XP and not gained through levels.  The same is true for BAB, Base Defense Bonus (a la UA), saves, ability score adjustments, spell levels, powerpoints, etc.  If you've ever read _Buy the Numbers_ (pdf), you should recognize the concept quite easily.  I've modified it heavily, though.

As a playtest, I am currently fleshing out my own homebrew with demonic enemies.  One I just created has a flurry of abilities (and currently CR 7) ... such as: Battle Fortitude +1 stolen from the Scout, Natural Armor +2 from the Dragonfire Adept, and Spellgrace +1 from the Spellthief.  In addition, he wields either a flaming Halberd (for flavor) or Greatsword.  He has a wide selection of feats {Weapon Focus/Specialization, Power Attack, Blind-fighting, etc}.  He's purchased a healthy BAB for his CR, d12 hit point proression, good FORT saves, weak REFL and WILL saves (he is a big dumb brute of a devil, after all), and the fighter's BDB for level 7.  And, a few otherthings, of course.

It's given me the flexibility that the game rules as written never could.  I am enjoying being no longer constrained by class progression.  Instead, I can pick and choose the abilities that I want in the character without being forced to take the abilities that I don't want.

I'm still in the playtesting/balancing mode, though.  It isn't balanced yet - and may never be any more balanced than 3.x ever was.  By that, of course, I mean that characters are automatically more powerful because their abilities are handpicked.  So, a character only has an ability if the player wants him to.  That makes the characters more powerful inherently, but it also makes the opponents much more specialized.  It also gives me the ability to do much more customization as the DM.   Imagine facing off against a Minotaur - but while you are sure ithas a gore and charge attack you can no longer be sure about all its minor attributes.  Suddenlythe game becomes much less static and much more customizable.  {It also becomes work for the DM, but I enjoy the ability to surprise my players!}

Anyway, that's what I'm up to ... if anyone is still reading this.  If you are, feel free to say hi!


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## Fenris (Jan 14, 2008)

Hi!

<pushes Bront out of the way>

I am first in line to help playtest! 

 

Good to see you back around man. Bront and I were saying how we missed Kit and Troth the other day as well. Glad to see you are still around and kicking. Hopefully we can force, er bribe, er convince you to run something again.


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## Nonlethal Force (Jan 15, 2008)

Hey, Fenris!

Glad to see that my name is still welcome and not spoken only after spitting!  [Or, at least, the spitting was cleaned up before I returned!  ]  I'm also glad that you are still fond of Kit and Troth.  Playing in any interesting games?


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## Fenris (Jan 15, 2008)

None as good as yours were    All three I was in.   

Yeah I have several interesting ones, including one long one about to wrap up.

Hey I have one spot left for a PbP I will be running. Short adventure, lots of fun. Gritty game. Can I tempt you to play in a short module?


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## Bront (Jan 17, 2008)

With a new kid (grandchild we have custody of), I am having less time than I'd like, so I might look over it, but I couldn't playtest it.

I still want to playtest my homebrew, but the attempt to do that sort of died on 2 boards, and now I have no time.

Good to see you NLF.


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## Nonlethal Force (Jan 21, 2008)

Good to hear from ya, Bront.  Glad things are going well, and I hear you about the time factor!

As for the game, Fenris, I'm still not up to a PbP.  I haven't found one that moves at the speed I want it to.  I've determined that PbPs will eventualy bog down and frustrate me.  Thanks for the invite, though!


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## Fenris (Jan 21, 2008)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Good to hear from ya, Bront.  Glad things are going well, and I hear you about the time factor!
> 
> As for the game, Fenris, I'm still not up to a PbP.  I haven't found one that moves at the speed I want it to.  I've determined that PbPs will eventualy bog down and frustrate me.  Thanks for the invite, though!




Well this should move fast, games seem to bog down after the initial thrill wears off. But I hope to keep this very short and sweet.

If you ever want to run a another solo, say with your new rules, I'm game and will keep up an appropriate pace


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## Nonlethal Force (Jun 5, 2008)

Fenris said:
			
		

> If you ever want to run a another solo, say with your new rules, I'm game and will keep up an appropriate pace




If you happen to see this, the possibility might not be too far off.  I'm currently working on getting the new rules publised through Mentalis Design, a subgroup of Dreamscarred Press.  I have most of the rules written, largely just waiting for a contract from Jeremy Smith (co-founder of DSP) and we'll be ready to move forward.

Anyone interested in checking out the conversation, feel free to pop over to the DSP website.  I'll even provide a linky:

Character Design for the Uninhibited


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## Fenris (Jun 6, 2008)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> If you happen to see this, the possibility might not be too far off.  I'm currently working on getting the new rules publised through Mentalis Design, a subgroup of Dreamscarred Press.  I have most of the rules written, largely just waiting for a contract from Jeremy Smith (co-founder of DSP) and we'll be ready to move forward.
> 
> Anyone interested in checking out the conversation, feel free to pop over to the DSP website.  I'll even provide a linky:
> 
> Character Design for the Uninhibited




Done! I'll check out those rules to see what you have done.


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## Nonlethal Force (Jun 7, 2008)

Unfortunately,the actual rules aren't on the forum.  But the conversation leading up to the ruleset is there.  Thanks for checking it out!


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## Fenris (Jun 7, 2008)

Nonlethal Force said:
			
		

> Unfortunately,the actual rules aren't on the forum.  But the conversation leading up to the ruleset is there.  Thanks for checking it out!





Sounds very cool. I have always enjoyed such systems. The more freedom I have in character creation the closer I can get to my actualy concept.

Can't wait to see the finished rules.


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## Nonlethal Force (Jul 10, 2008)

Well, it should be happening soon.  The contract is signed and the work has been delivered.  I don't know how long proofreading/formatting is going to take, but watching the DSP forums or the Publishers forum here at ENWorld should bring an announcement.  [Bacris is the ENWorld name of one of the two heads of DSP]

FWIW, a new NLF-run game may be starting up on the DSP forums.   I'm looking to start a game using the new character design rules in play.


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## Fenris (Jul 11, 2008)

Nonlethal Force said:


> Well, it should be happening soon.  The contract is signed and the work has been delivered.  I don't know how long proofreading/formatting is going to take, but watching the DSP forums or the Publishers forum here at ENWorld should bring an announcement.  [Bacris is the ENWorld name of one of the two heads of DSP]
> 
> FWIW, a new NLF-run game may be starting up on the DSP forums.   I'm looking to start a game using the new character design rules in play.




Provide a link and I'll be there!


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## Nonlethal Force (Jul 11, 2008)

I see that you already foundit over on the DSP site.  But just in case you need it again - or anyone else does:

Recruiting Thread

Have you bought anything from DSP?  If not, I highly recommend Untapped Potential as a starting work.  It is a good all-aroud addition to the XPH from WotC.  Beyond that, my personal favorites are the Worldthought Medic (a great psionic healer), Halo Knight, and the Tome of Channeling (I often say this is non-vancian magic done right).


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