# City of the Spider Queen (mini-campaign)



## HolyMan (Aug 4, 2010)

Ok the last of my new adventures to start (and I will get back to the rest before you know it), is City of the Spider Queen.



> _Daggerdale is reeling from a sudden series of murderous drow raids. As a grave threat to the entire surface world develops in the war torn dark elf city of Maerimydra, intrepid heroes must discover its source and destory it, if they can._



Now for this I am adding a twist to character generation. The picture below is of the party that will be taking on this little adventure it is your jobs to bring them to life.

For now I am only looking for is a name, general personality traits, quirks, relation to other party members, short history of either how they came to join the group or what they have done since joining. Remember these are 10th lvl characters and you can post alittle about combat abilities (feats), and spell/skill usage. And a little on their equipment and how they use it. 

You may describe as many of them as you wish all if you want. And please let me know which one you prefer to play. Also remember that this adventure is set in the Forgotten Realms and is 3.5

Have fun everyone.

HM
EDIT: House rules


> First is posting time during combat. I have seen where DM's have stated  that they will wait a few days for a post before saying a character is  delaying. It looks like a good way to keep combat flowing, so I will  implement it in most of my games starting with this one.
> 
> Since this is a medium speed game (I think) I will say everyone has 4  days after I post up a recap to get their actions posted. It should be  enough time and if you think you can't for an upcoming round go ahead  and post some upcoming alternate actions I could use. If you post  nothing then you will be delaying till you re-post.
> 
> ...




*LINKS:*
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/290600-city-spider-queen.html - *IC*
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/288211-heroes-who-will-brave-city-spider-queen.html - *RG*


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## jkason (Aug 4, 2010)

Intrigued about chargen from a group picture. Can think of some fun character types for several of them. I'm actually leaning toward playing the female. Her look actually has me thinking she might be some kind of bard (focused on perform: dance?), or an enchanter? As a dancer, she could probably get her in a few places the others wouldn't be as welcome. Though I'm never especially good at playing characters who are supposed to be charismatic 'face' types. lol.


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## grufflehead (Aug 5, 2010)

OK, looks like a bit of debate about what we are looking for here so time for something super left field 

What if that's not a shield the big guy is holding up? What if it's a miniature sarcophagus...and there's something in it...?

Mulhorandi pantheon is part of FR isn't it? What about a dwarven crusader, a devout worshipper of Anhur, who willingly transforms himself into a mummy so he can continue the fight against evil. When he's 'off duty', he just likes to go back to his nice warm coffin to meditate on the mysteries of the universe.


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2010)

Wow and this is why I wanted to do this I didn't even think of that, I was leaning toward ssomething else won't say yet so others can post about her.

If you find time to finish up please do I think the picture has a balanced looking party. Any other takers to my little experiment of fun?

EDIT: hey gruffle-ninja gaiden late in the S-K system I bet LOL hope to read up on what you think tomorrow, night.


HM


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## renau1g (Aug 5, 2010)

Would you allow an artifcer class? I'm particularly intrigued by the gun-wielder on the left. re: rules for the weapon do you have d20 Modern: Past? There's some rules in there for early firearms, particularly the wheellock weapons are interesting. I love the idea of a noble tinkerer who has been exiled from the family for his eccentricity, but he still considers himself one of them. Could be tied to the Gondsmen or be one himself


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2010)

Nothing is off the table as long as you can help me with the rules, that I probably don't have. That guy does have a better than everyone look about him doesn't he. See the way he stands off from the group. What I want to hear ideals about are his little red vials at his waist, some interesting things there. 

Will tell you my first ideal when I first saw him after we get a group together. 

HM


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 5, 2010)

I'd like to take a crack at playing the tall guy with the staff and beard. I'm picturing him as an Archivist (Heroes of Horror). Charming enough, but obsessed with learning the Ultimate Truth, and somewhat shell-shocked from some of the more horrific discoveries he's made in researching the gods of the Underdark. I'd have him use lots of knowledge skills and divinations to aid the party, as well as provide healing and buff support. Taking a feat to wear light armor, as in the picture, could fit the paranoid feeling I've got in mind for him.

Renard Foucault began his search for truth after an encounter with creatures of the Underdark in his childhood, some twenty years ago. He and his friends had been exploring the caves near their quiet crossroads trading town, when out of the darkness, some horrid, tentacled monstrosity reached out and snatched up Renard's friends. Renard ran back to town, but when the town watch returned, they found nothing but bare rock.

He comes to the party as a highly-recommended expert on all things fearsome, slimy, tentacled and subterranean. The woman you see hanging on his arm came as part of the deal--she may be the only thing keeping him sane these days.

His equipment largely consists of scrolls for situational spells, wands for healing and other frequently used spells, and assorted magical doodads. The staff pictured might be a Staff of Healing, if that's in his budget.

Oh, and thanks for starting this up! I've never played in the Realms, but it looks like great fun.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 5, 2010)

HM; Still interested.

Not sure yet what character I want to build yet, but I was assuming there would be time to work that out.


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2010)

Your quite welcome Hella-Tellah and that is a great intro for that character. Excatly what I am looking for.

I to noticed the light armor and for me my basic concept was he was a cleric of the god of magic. Or a cross classes wizard/cleric or wizard/rogue using rogue for diplomacy type skills he has the look of the leader in the group doesn't he.

Seems you noticed there isn't a stand out cleric in the group but I beileve everyone of them could possible be a cleric in one way or another. And truly possible in the Realms.

Ok that makes four out of five needed players so I will give others a chance. Will keep the debate going for the next week. On Aug 10th I will assign characters to those I feel have the best concept for each listed character and if you want to pick an alt you may. 

And on Aug 10th I will assign character gene rules and start an RG. We can get to making characters and possible start this little campaign by the end of the month. As this is a module it won't be to hard for me to run. Although if you have read it don't expect me to go by the book I may add/subtract extra encounters (things that aren't really need for the story) as they will only slow down pbp. And add extra RP which is where you will get the majority of XP anyway.

Same with treasure I will tailor it around what your characters are and use and probably not keep it so firmly fixed. 

Any other questions let me know. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> HM; Still interested.
> 
> Not sure yet what character I want to build yet, but I was assuming there would be time to work that out.




Sure is time I think a week for everyone specially people over seas like yourself 

HM


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## grufflehead (Aug 5, 2010)

OK PM, looks like we've got requests for 3 PCs from the others, with options of bard or wizard, artificer and archivist. We're lacking some sort of cleric and some stand up fight power by the look of it, and are left with the little guy in front and the big guy with the shield. I'm just kicking around some options but jump in and tell me which you'd prefer so I can narrow my searching down a bit.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 5, 2010)

I would prefer the big guy, I can go melee build fighter or cleric.  Even combine them both, I suppose.  I have an 8th level Fighter/Cleric/Stormlord build around here somewhere.

HM, are we locked into the apparent race of the picture?  He could be Draconic instead half-orc.  His size matches Goliath, but not the ears.  What about Bugbear?

Actually working on a build really depends on the resources allowed.
Such as the Complete Books, to include Champion and Divine if I am looking at cleric.  What about Unearthed Arcana?

Also I still need to finish my Swashbuckler Privateer first anyway.  But I am thinking about this.


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2010)

Your going in the wrong direction thinking on classes and builds. Just want to know about the character. I was going to us the guy with the shield as a 4e warlord but that game dropped 

Now looking at the big guy what do you see? Green skin, long ears, musclar build. So he has some orc blood? if so maybe the other parent wasn't human. And then in another direction don't trolls have green skin and pointy ears? And what about those elemental templates maybe he's some kind of fey creature.

In D&D the possiblities are endless,  but if you are worried about builds and books nothing is off the table yet. And no one has a character yet as I said characters to go to the best concepts not first come first serve as that is unfair to those across the pond.

So do up a couple if you have the time but don't worry about classes or the best race combo for now.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 5, 2010)

Well, I usually build mechanics first and think about the rest as I find a good picture.  That's just me, waiting for creativity to start.

Given an open ended choice I still prefer the big guy.  And based on your answer, he could have dragon blood and maybe his skin is a little scale-like when you get closer.  But that could be Bugbear blood too.  Too many choices.  

Now if someone wants to fight over the choice, I can come up with something for that wizard looking chick next him as well.  I don't have any sorcerer's in play at the moment.


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 5, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> We're lacking some sort of cleric




I was intending on playing the Archivist as a healer/diviner sort of guy, so don't worry about making another Cleric-y character unless you want to. I'm not trying to edge anyone out, though--you can never have too many divine casters!


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## perrinmiller (Aug 5, 2010)

HT, Greetings from Tokyo.

Works for me, I got no problem with tanking.  A bugbear might not be too pious anyway.


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## jkason (Aug 5, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Wow and this is why I wanted to do this I didn't even think of that, I was leaning toward ssomething else won't say yet so others can post about her.
> 
> If you find time to finish up please do I think the picture has a balanced looking party.




Not sure if you meant me to throw out my ideas on the others as 'finishing,' or expand on the female charater, so let's just try both, though my weakness for trying to go against type means my ideas may not make an especially balanced party  :

* Man on the left I thought might be an interesting rogue / ranger hybrid type, obviously specialized for range attacks. I don't have any sources other than the online SRD and what I can glean from Crystal Keep, so I'm not sure if there's a better class that does that all on its own. Actually, I'd originally thought of an assassin type, but I believe the actual Assassin class is evil-only?

* Tall man, as others had mentioned, seemed kind of a secondary caster / fighty type. What about a druid? The leather armor fits, carries a healing wand to help, and as the 'nature guy' he might fit into a leader role by helping the party navigate / find shelter.

* I can't help but want the little guy to actually be the stabby one. Barbarian goblin, maybe? Always itching for a fight, with the others having to talk him down. (yes, rather like Belkar)

* As for the big guy, that sheild looks rather ornate, and I started wondering if it might not actually be a holy symbol for a war-focused god. Half-orc cleric, then?

Like I said, not exactly balanced. I mean, there's no primary arcane caster, though a lot of folks who can help with healing and buffing. In any case, on to trying to flesh out "the girl":

Talhia Shen was born a slave, raised to do whatever it took to keep herself and her family safe. Despite the squallor of her living conditions, she grew into what her master called "a comely wench." He promoted her from maid to his personal 'dancer.' His intentions seemed painfully clear.

What her master didn't realize, what Talhia herself was not fully aware of, was that her maturing body was also maturing into an untapped power. When she danced, her finger cymbols chiming and her lilting voice filling the room, she didn't just entertain: she enthralled. And so it was that, after each command performance, it was Talhia and not her master who gave the orders. In the wake of one of her dances, he was always a perfect gentlemen, though he was never quite sure why when he woke alone the next morning.

When she finally realized what powers she could channel, Talhia used them to arrange for the freedom of herself and her mother. Then she set off into the world, seeking to turn her powers into profit she could use to see that her mother's 'retirement' would be a comfortable one.

Ever the performer, it's often difficult to tell what the young woman is thinking, even when she tells you. She can be simultaneously the center of attention and absent the suspicious thoughts of everyone in a room. Forget a fly on the wall; if you want to know something, you want to put Talhia in the room.

***

Mind you, I'm not sure how you *build* that character. 3.5 bards aren't made to use Dance for most of their abilities, and she feels like she needs a lot more social skills than, say, a sorcerer character would get. Ah, well, that's the idea that the image created, in any case. 

jason


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## renau1g (Aug 5, 2010)

Oi! My brain hurts after reading the Artificer in Eberron... too complex for my tastes. 

Maybe class-wise he could be a cleric of Gond or maybe a wizard...maybe for the gun, it could be how he channels his spells? I.e. cast magic missile? Aim the gun and fire a bolt of energy. Hmmmm..... that might be a lot of fun. Maybe focus on evocation magic....


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 6, 2010)

jkason said:


> Mind you, I'm not sure how you *build* that character. 3.5 bards aren't made to use Dance for most of their abilities, and she feels like she needs a lot more social skills than, say, a sorcerer character would get.




Have you taken a look at the Beguiler class from the PHB2? That'd fit your description perfectly, I think, and they're a boatload of fun to play.


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## renau1g (Aug 6, 2010)

Yeah Beguiler's are cool. stonegod played a most infuriating (in a good way) one in the Red Hand of Doom game I ran a while back.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/226734-renau1gs-red-hand-doom-group-2-a.html#post4234104


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 6, 2010)

Hope I am not stepping on any toes, as I thought I would give this a shot....

Xander overlooked the alleyway, his perch carefully selected after weeks of surveillance and patience.  It was hard, oh so hard for one of his nature to have been able to find the patience he had never had, but he had no choice.  Usually the first one to swing first and ask questions later, even though the foe might not be able to talk, this had been his most frustrating job.

The mark made their presence, as he could hear the coins falling into his coin purse, counting the 350 gold that Old Man Malloy had agreed upon.  The hunched figure was bent over the cane, it's rhythmic tapping the only sound that he could concentrate on.  As the figure moved down the alley, the glint of the emerald ring on his left hand glimmered in the moonlight, as a grin played across Xanders face.

_Not too bad!  Nice cut, great shine, brightly colored and sizable.  Might even be worth more than the 350 gold Old Man Malloy is offering.  Might have to look into that..._

His thoughts come back to the figure, as he moves below, into the T section of the alley.  Xander makes his move, dropping from the shadows with practiced ease.  His footsteps are too quiet for anyone to hear, as he lands in front of the figure, ten paces away, with crossed arms.

"Old Man Malloy sends his regards.  Seems that you have something of his, and I'm here to collect."

Patiently waiting, Xander watches the figure stop, peer up from underneath the hood, and slowly remove the cowl.

"Yes.  Although, I think I will do the collecting."  

No sooner had the figure uttered the words before Xander recognized the voice behind the cowl.  Gorren, the everlasting thorn in his side.  Feigning surprise, Xander glances about, spotting the other figures coming out form the shadows, two at each of his sides, and another pair to back up Gorren.

Patiently, waiting, Xander does what he does best, as he calmly takes in the little surprise for him.  "You sure you want to die today, Gorren?  You could just leave now, you know.  Turn tail, as usual; walk away; live to feed off the gutters."

Gorren had heard enough, as Xander simply smiled, knowing what would come next.  "Get him!" were the words Gorren used, as the figures sprinted forth at Xander, barely making a few steps before the numerous sounds of crossbow bolts tearing into the leather armor of his assailants brought forth their gurgling screams.  Before Gorren could even realize what had happened, Xander brought forth his mace, knowing he could take the leader of this ragtag bunch with ease.

He had staked it out for weeks, and knew the double cross was set to ensnare him.  Old Man Malloy never cared for Xander, ever since that job long ago went sour.  This was to be Old Man Malloys play on power, showing that he could take care of Xander.  Yet, today was not the day.  Xander had the place riddled with traps that he only activated for tonight, knowing this was the night of betrayal.  The hired thugs were no match for his wits, as Xander took one step towards the beady eyed Gorren, who was now looking for a way out of this.  The only reply from Xander would be Gorren's last words to be heard.  The tapping of the famed and noted wicked mace brought out the meaning of the last two words Gorren heard....

"Let's dance..."

[sblock=The Little Guy]Thought I would take a crack at the shifty eyed little guy.  He looks like he's the confident type![/sblock]


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 6, 2010)

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> HT, Greetings from Tokyo.




Yoroshiku!


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## HolyMan (Aug 6, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> What if that's not a shield the big guy is holding up? What if it's a miniature sarcophagus...and there's something in it...?
> 
> Mulhorandi pantheon is part of FR isn't it? What about a dwarven crusader, a devout worshipper of Anhur, who willingly transforms himself into a mummy so he can continue the fight against evil. When he's 'off duty', he just likes to go back to his nice warm coffin to meditate on the mysteries of the universe.




I wasn't sure about the Mulhorandi but I googled it and it is in the FR pantheon. So the big guy is the little mummy's bodyguard? Guess it is always good to have a back-up character. 



Hella_Tellah said:


> I was intending on playing the Archivist as a healer/diviner sort of guy, so don't worry about making another Cleric-y character unless you want to. I'm not trying to edge anyone out, though--you can never have too many divine casters!




I don;t know much about Archivist (but I googled again) and I think you are on to something there, also making it fit in the underdark theme. 



jkason said:


> Actually, I'd originally thought of an assassin type, but I believe the actual Assassin class is evil-only?




They make Lawful Evil assassins right and as for your party:

Assassin
Druid 
Barbarian
Cleric
Bard

Not bad at all 



renau1g said:


> Oi! My brain hurts after reading the Artificer in Eberron... too complex for my tastes.
> 
> Maybe class-wise he could be a cleric of Gond or maybe a wizard...maybe for the gun, it could be how he channels his spells? I.e. cast magic missile? Aim the gun and fire a bolt of energy. Hmmmm..... that might be a lot of fun. Maybe focus on evocation magic....




That's what I was thinking ok my first look at these guys was for 4e and I thought he's a warlock infernal pact and the "gun" is his implement. Were you in Chargene;s little experiment that started with one person who then choose from three characters to join the first then move on and choose three more. Well I didn't have three I had this group planned out but the game never started. 



Fangor the Fierce said:


> "Let's dance..."
> 
> [sblock=The Little Guy]Thought I would take a crack at the shifty eyed little guy. He looks like he's the confident type![/sblock]




Nice, 

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 6, 2010)

I like flipping conventional views on their ear to make a story more interesting. The Chargen idea of building off the picture is really good HM 

See basics like 3.5 vs 4ED are important so ppl know which directions they have the option of going into. The racial options for each are completely different. And a genaral power level like low (5th or lower), mid (6th-12th) or high 13+.

If its 3.5:

I see the little guy as the actual "muscle" of the group as an air goblin swordsage or warblade with a short guy complex. Hes the one who lets his mouth get the whole group into more trouble than he can handle alone.

Or I see the pretty girl as the crazy pyromancer that likes to watch things burn for fun. Relying on her big green eyes to get her cute butt out of trouble in a pinch.

I see the big guy as a gentle giant. An information gathering goliath rogue or stoic druid that sees beyond the veil of the world he stands in. Wrapped in copper dragonhide, pressed into the form of heavier armor.

The thin man with the staff is actually a monk masquerading as a wizard to draw his opponents in close. He sees genstones as a natural channel to his divine connection to the universe.

I absolutely love the concept of the mummy crusader who continues his quest from beyond the grave. Floating around (or even being carried) in his sarcophagus


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## HolyMan (Aug 6, 2010)

Thanks Vertexx I may try this experiment agian in the future depends on the game.

Some nice change to the standards oh that little guy he's a rogue, or the big guy a barbarian. And the female pyromancer  nice  very different as there is nothing to show it (except maybe the thick gloves), so really anything is possible.

BTW that post didn't have an I wish to play feel to it. Which is ok by me as reading what people come up with is part of the fun on this end.

So to make things clear to everyone (present and future) please let me know if you are wishing to get in or just wanting to stretch your creative muscles. 

And please post your character preferences in order (should maybe list at least two).

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 6, 2010)

1st choice: Big guy. A smart ass tactician, melee fighter, potentially likes the booze too much and is grumpy in the morning.  Likes animals and his only social skill is intimidation.  Race TBD

2nd choice: The Chick with cleavage.  Something arcane (depending on options allowed from UA)  Enjoys long walks in the underdark and frying little critters, can be seductive if necessary.

3rd Choice: Whatever.  I am easy and can think of something given enough time.


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## grufflehead (Aug 6, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I wasn't sure about the Mulhorandi but I googled it and it is in the FR pantheon. So the big guy is the little mummy's bodyguard? Guess it is always good to have a back-up character.
> 
> HM




Nope, the mummy is the 6th PC you never realised you had  He can take care of himself - I sketched out a build based on the fact we seemed to be short of fight power, but I can easily tailor him to fill another role if required.

Just keep that female pyromancer away from me!


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## jkason (Aug 6, 2010)

Hella_Tellah said:


> Have you taken a look at the Beguiler class from the PHB2? That'd fit your description perfectly, I think, and they're a boatload of fun to play.




It's entirely possible, but I don't actually have any of the 3.5 books, so my only sources are the online SRD and the PDFs at Crystal Keep (which don't include classes or spell lists for non-core classes). 



HolyMan said:


> So to make things clear to everyone (present and future) please let me know if you are wishing to get in or just wanting to stretch your creative muscles.
> 
> And please post your character preferences in order (should maybe list at least two).




I'm definitely interested. If I can figure out a build for her, obviously Talhia is my first choice. For second, probably the big guy or the guy Tahlia's leaning on?


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## Walking Dad (Aug 6, 2010)

The little guy actually looks like a bald halfling or whisper gnome. Wearing studded leather armor and using a light mace.

And the big guy has tusks. Defiantly orc-blooded, perhaps even full blooded.

The woman really looks like having a non-armor, no-weapon Cha-based class. I would say sorcerer (don't beguilers wear armor?).

I could picture the armored male caster as a warmage.

The sly one? Urban ranger with a very unusual weapon. Looks like he wears a chain shirt.

---

Would be interested, but it is 3.5. 'sigh'

Have fun with this party


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 6, 2010)

Aw crud am i too late?


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## renau1g (Aug 6, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> That's what I was thinking ok my first look at these guys was for 4e and I thought he's a warlock infernal pact and the "gun" is his implement. Were you in Chargene;s little experiment that started with one person who then choose from three characters to join the first then move on and choose three more. Well I didn't have three I had this group planned out but the game never started.




Yeah, I was there. Ah well.....


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## jkason (Aug 6, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> The woman really looks like having a non-armor, no-weapon Cha-based class. I would say sorcerer (don't beguilers wear armor?).




Got ahold of Beguiler information, and yes, they have light armor proficiency. Of course, a disguise self spell (or a disguising magic item) handily wipes away visible evidence of armor. The spell's on their list, and depending on money, a disguising magic item might not be a bad investment for the character as I see her. From what I'm seeing of the class, it may be the right one for the concept, though it looks like a challenge balancing abilities to use the class well.


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## renau1g (Aug 6, 2010)

or for a little coin you can grab the incredibly useful hat of disguise

Wondrous Items :: d20srd.org


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## Voda Vosa (Aug 6, 2010)

renau1g said:


> Oi! My brain hurts after reading the Artificer in Eberron... too complex for my tastes.
> 
> Maybe class-wise he could be a cleric of Gond or maybe a wizard...maybe for the gun, it could be how he channels his spells? I.e. cast magic missile? Aim the gun and fire a bolt of energy. Hmmmm..... that might be a lot of fun. Maybe focus on evocation magic....




Boy, make him a warlock if you want to gun people down.


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## renau1g (Aug 6, 2010)

Warlock eh? I haven't played one before. Is it available on Crystalkeep? Oh...I just went to Crystalkeep and the "basic classes" file has been withdrawn...


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## perrinmiller (Aug 6, 2010)

If I play the chick with cleavage I was considering warlock as a possibility.


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## jkason (Aug 6, 2010)

renau1g said:


> or for a little coin you can grab the incredibly useful hat of disguise
> 
> Wondrous Items :: d20srd.org




Just the kind of thing I was thinking of. And if we're starting at 10th level, it should be affordable.


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 6, 2010)

Here are my three choices. Now that I've written them, I'm pretty much in love with all three of them, so go ahead and pick whatever seems to fit the group best.

Renard Foucault, expert on the Underdark, standing at the precipice of maddening revelation. (second from the left)
--------------
Erwin Humboldt (far left), alchemist, mage, and mountebank. His motivations for venturing into the inky depths of the Underdark are largely financial. He took on a commission from a crime syndicate in Luskan to smuggle contraband arcane reagents down the Sword Coast and into Waterdeep. His crew ran afoul of the customs officials at Waterdeep, however, and they had to dump the cargo in the bay. Erwin's employers held him fiscally responsible. Now he's organized an expedition into one of the deadliest, most hostile environments in all of Faerun, because the alternative fate he'd meet at the hands of Luskan pirates is sure to be a whole lot worse.

Mechanically, he'd be a Wizard/Rogue/Arcane Trickster who sneak attacks with alchemical weapons and carries a bag of holding full of nasty surprises. He'd be a leader of sorts, but more of a scheming mastermind than a rallying hero.
--------------------
Cedric Tharkrash (far right), self-proclaimed hero of Calimshan, defender of Amn, and father (so he claims) of a hundred bastard children. Raised among humans by two half-orc parents in Calimport, Cedric effects a very gentile demeanor. He has been adventuring since his late teens, constantly hungry for fame and adventure. He cares little for material gain, pursuit of knowledge, the greater good, or other such temporary goals. No, Cedric has just one goal in mind: to be sung of by every bard, in every tavern, in every port, in every corner of the Realms. He figures a successful expedition into the deepest parts of the Underdark ought to get him halfway there.

He's definitely not a Barbarian, in my mind--this guy fights with a cool head. I'm imagining him using a sword-and-shield style that's heavy on shield bashing and movement. He might pick up some maneuvers from the Tome of Battle designed for two-weapon fighting, using the shield as an off-hand weapon. Definitely nothing overtly magical, but certainly flashy. His scimitar and shield are his most prized possessions, but he's also picked up a few trinkets that let him pull a surprise or two.


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## Voda Vosa (Aug 6, 2010)

renau1g said:


> Warlock eh? I haven't played one before. Is it available on Crystalkeep? Oh...I just went to Crystalkeep and the "basic classes" file has been withdrawn...




You can find it on complete arcane.


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## HolyMan (Aug 6, 2010)

grufflehead said:


> Nope, the mummy is the 6th PC you never realised you had  He can take care of himself - I sketched out a build based on the fact we seemed to be short of fight power, but I can easily tailor him to fill another role if required.
> 
> Just keep that female pyromancer away from me!




She might just be a charming dancer LOL. Please just keep your builds to the picture as I think I have a way to get everyone in. 



Walking Dad said:


> Would be interested, but it is 3.5. 'sigh'
> 
> Have fun with this party




Thanks WD and you have a slot reserved for my WotBS Pathfinder game  Starting after I get a copy of the APG.



Myth and Legend said:


> Aw crud am i too late?




No never ML you are one of the reason's I decided to start this game this way. Can't wait to see what you come up with.



jkason said:


> Got ahold of Beguiler information, and yes, they have light armor proficiency. Of course, a disguise self spell (or a disguising magic item) handily wipes away visible evidence of armor. The spell's on their list, and depending on money, a disguising magic item might not be a bad investment for the character as I see her. From what I'm seeing of the class, it may be the right one for the concept, though it looks like a challenge balancing abilities to use the class well.




I like the beguiler fit as well. At lower lvls she was using cloaked casting. Advanced learning means she was self taught. and always trying new moves.  No incantations when she reached 5th lvl. And now at 10th lvl she has learned to cast without dancing? Still Spell??

She can bring trapfinding to the table and in combat if I were playing her I wouldn't directly fight i would charm a person or monster to work for me. 



Hella_Tellah said:


> Here are my three choices. Now that I've written them, I'm pretty much in love with all three of them, so go ahead and pick whatever seems to fit the group best.
> 
> Renard Foucault, expert on the Underdark, standing at the precipice of maddening revelation. (second from the left)
> --------------
> ...




Hella_Tellah that is a perfect example GREAT JOB. everyone please take note.

*Also everyone please take note that since we have an over abundance of people intrested I am thinking of breaking this up into two groups. Same picture probably way different characters (which is good) Just need a couple more takers I will ask around.*

*So please if you have time follow Hella Tellah's example for character concept and do as many as you wish and I will divide the results into two groups. Sound like a plan?*

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 6, 2010)

1st Choice - Xander - Small Guy with Mace
Making up for his stature, Xander feels that the best way to get someone to understand your views is to beat it into them.  Not one to shy away from a fight, he still likes to know his environment, take advantage of it, and keeps calm in almost all situations.  Likes to fight fair, one on one, but isn't afraid to use tactics like traps and such to level the playing field.  Opting to know as much about fighting, his skills are numerous and he is not afraid to use them...

2nd Choice - Krool - Big Guy with Shield 
Never let a name fool you, for Krool is anything but.  This gentle soul is best served as eye-candy to entice foes to think twice, yet his training says otherwise.  Following in the ways of his faith, Krool keeps the confidence of the group going, preferring to use his spells in battle followed by his weapon as second choice.  Healing, improving his allies and being their shield is his forte.  Often one to forgive, he looks for atonement from others for their sins.  This includes foes and has often left him debating with allies on letting the foes die, or to allow them to live...

3rd Choice - Trystan - Male Staff/Sword Wielder
Trystan is the religious zealot your mother warned you about.  Often looking dazed, as if thinking of things that leave him mesmerized, he can easily be taken as an aloof nobleborn.  Instead, his thoughts are contemplating the decision to skewer evil with a well placed thrust of his sword, or blast it with his powerful spells designed to root out and destroy evil.  Balancing the two is his job, and he would like to think he does it well.  He does not care to debate issues too much, preferring to take quick decisive actions.  Charismatic enough to bring about the affection of the lone woman of the group, Trystan has a way of making people think twice before crossing him...


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## jkason (Aug 6, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> *So please if you have time follow Hella Tellah's example for character concept and do as many as you wish and I will divide the results into two groups. Sound like a plan?*




Will do. Choice number one is still Talhia, probably beguiler after all the talk of it: 

[sblock=original Talhia background post]







jkason said:


> Talhia Shen was born a slave, raised to do whatever it took to keep herself and her family safe. Despite the squallor of her living conditions, she grew into what her master called "a comely wench." He promoted her from maid to his personal 'dancer.' His intentions seemed painfully clear.
> 
> What her master didn't realize, what Talhia herself was not fully aware of, was that her maturing body was also maturing into an untapped power. When she danced, her finger cymbols chiming and her lilting voice filling the room, she didn't just entertain: she enthralled. And so it was that, after each command performance, it was Talhia and not her master who gave the orders. In the wake of one of her dances, he was always a perfect gentlemen, though he was never quite sure why when he woke alone the next morning.
> 
> ...



[/sblock]

As for the second choice, the more I look at him , the less he strikes me as a druid. He reall does seem more blasty with both the wand and the staff. And in looking up beguiler stuff, I ran across the warmage and warlock, both of whom might be fun to play. So:

*Choice 2: Stane Bastal*

Stane was a child of privilege, and spent much of his younger life growing spoiled and indulging in temper tantrums. As he grew, those tantrums took on a much more volatile aspect when the magic in his blood began to manifest: sparks literally flew when Stane let his anger get the better of him. And one night when he was fourteen, a fit of pique began a fire which destroyed half of the family manor. Several servants were badly burned, and Stane's younger sister actually died in the blaze.

Devastated, Stane fled his birthright and struck out on his own. He determined to tame and channel his magical fury or die in the attempt, but swore that no one else would die just from being close to him during this trial of will.

He's spent many years on his path to control. Though the simmering rage within him is always just below the surface, he has learned to keep it in check, unleashing it only on those he deems worthy of his magical wrath. Along the way, he's attempting to repent in some way for the sins of his youth: he tries to aid those who--like his sister--are the victims of violence they have done nothing to earn, and punishes those who inflict that violence.

****

Kind of a self-righteous type, obviously, with an intense presence and a rather focused view of the world. I see him as seeming very quiet and restrained outside of combat, but a bit frighteningly manic once he decides to let loose.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 7, 2010)

*For the Big Guy:*
Morrolan's full name is Morrolan e'Vargach mrith Sveargith.  The appellation after his given name has been passed down through the generations on his mother's side.  According to the stories his mother used to tell as part of her profession as a traveling bard, one of his ancestors was the daughter of a Lord Morrolan who ruled from a floating castle.  Serena was cast out of her father's castle for becoming pregnant.  Morrolan was a proud warrior and sorcerer but could not handle the shame.  Serena was cast out into the world on her own and she made her way using her sorceress abilities and great singing voice.  She was the one who started the family tradition of being traveling bards.  Her child, a daughter, was born from the union of Serena and a half-dragon (Dragon type - Force Dragon), and thus all children from her daughter's lineage have some dragon blood running through their veins.

Morrolan's mother named him after the ancient lord, hoping he would make a better name for himself in the world.  Morrolan has aspirations of becoming a great warrior, but not styled after the long dead lord, but rather his dragon ancestry. He has always had a great fascination about dragons and hopes to learn more about them.  The dragon blood beckons him irresistibly.  He has left home for a life of exploration along a path to further his goal of unlocking the power of his draconic heritage.  He was raised by his mother and never met his father. He only begins his journey as an adventurer, more martial in nature, rather than being a bard the family tradition.  In his life he tries to do his best that a good person can do and is quick to help others in need, according to their needs.   

Build-wise: Duskblade to Dragon Disciple, he has already begun manifesting the dragon aspects, thus his appearance.

Busy weekend so it will take me longer for the Pyro-chick.


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## grufflehead (Aug 7, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> She might just be a charming dancer LOL. Please just keep your builds to the picture as I think I have a way to get everyone in.




'_Ah, there you are, you naughty brain. Right, back in the box you go; you know you only get yourself into trouble when you start thinking outside of it..._'

Looks like you've got lots of interest now HM so I'll keep my powder dry for your WotBS game (haven't noticed a recruiting thread for that one - waiting for a while?).


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## HolyMan (Aug 7, 2010)

Was going to wait for my copy of the APG so when people started refering to it I knew what they are talking about. Your interest would give us three possibles. So that means an recuritment thread can be started let me think on what I want to do for character gene in that one LOL. Should be straight forward but you never know 

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 7, 2010)

*The Big Guy:*

Platinus, while truly a mountain of a man, would much rather hold light conversation with the bird on his windowsill than crush skulls together. Being dragonborn was a great calling for a goliath druid, and he accepted the calling with a glad heart. Even though it meant a life standing directly in the path of danger against the forces of Tiamat and all manner of poison dripping evil, a chance to see far more of the vast world beyond the forest at the base of his tribe's mountain had a strange appeal. 

When the goliath tribes united to destroy an ancient black dragon that had moved into the area, it was Platinus who was honored with the beasts hide, once it was killed, to protect the blessed protector of the people from harm. During the fight he met several other heroes as well who told him such strange tales of distant lands and an evil rising from deep within the earth. So fashioning a suit of armor from the hide, he picked up his blade and began his great adventure.

His platinum gray-green skin with the slightest hint of a scaled pattern, along with his back-swept, reptilian legs and heavy tail are a testament to the pact made by this defender of the natural world. When not running through the trees and hills in the form of a dinosaur he can be found in meditative communion with nature. 

*The Little Guy:*

This little bruiser calls himself Fragheart. Completely unaware that he stands a mere 3 feet tall, this air goblin brawler likes to start trouble wherever he goes. Whether sitting in a pub, crawling through sewers or exploring caves, he manages to find the biggest baddest thing he can and spits right in its eye. A crafty and steadfast warrior, he fights with a variety of light weapons with the ferocity of a rabid wolverine. 

The fact that he doesn't breath has saved his life more times than he can count, especially when the other guys hands find there way around his throat. When the mood strikes him, he can even sprout fur and claws lending even more credence to that end.

Fragheart has been traveling with most of this group for years, getting into and out of one scrape or another since before they had found their first magic item. They seem to complement each others talents well and the fact that they are all nuts helps too.


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## ghostcat (Aug 8, 2010)

HM. As you are thinking of running two groups, I'll throw my hat into the ring. Looking at the little guy as some kind of dwarven monk.  As for the girl definitely an elf with a succubus bloodline, probably a wizard.

How does this sound?


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## perrinmiller (Aug 8, 2010)

*2nd Choice:* The Chick with Cleavage (But after making this background, I kinda like her and could consider her a tie for first at this point.)



Celeste grew up in a small city, the daughter of a whore who had been knocked up by a visiting adventurer.  Given no other choice she was raised in her mother’s profession, being quite pretty.  But more unusual was that she began manifesting abilities that she inherited from her father apparently.  After keeping them secret while growing up, she found them useful when it came to providing a little trick for her clients.  She even developed a technique to deliver an electrical shock at just the right moment for her more perverted clientele.

One night things got out of hand and a customer got too abusive, and the ensuing argument turned into a minor conflagration.  Losing her temper, Celeste lashed out unleashing some of her newer arcane energies that she hadn’t even realized she possessed.  The result was the brothel being burned to the ground along with the rest of the city block.  Celeste fled the city to escape repercussions with authorities, however most people believed her dead anyway, and decided a new career would be a good idea. 

On finding that her powers were stronger than she thought, Celeste set about on a path of self discovery. She attached herself to adventurous sorts of people, trying to follow in her unknown father’s footsteps in a fashion.  As her powers increased with experience, she became a more useful companion and came to enjoy what she could do.  Particularly since it sure beat working on her back for a living.


Build-wise: Depends on what's allowed, but arcane caster obviously


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## ghostcat (Aug 9, 2010)

*Small Guy* 

The direction of Dargun's whole life has been determined by the fact that he hates bullies. Not just dislikes but actively hates. It all started when he was 26 (_equivalent to 10 human years_), when his twin sister was been terrorised by an older boy. His defence of his sister did turn out well, as Dargun ended up being badly beaten up. Determined not to let anything like that happen again, Dargun started to search for someone who would teach him how to defend himself. He found and eventually befriended Argear; a retired army unarmed combat instructor. Argear liked Dargun's spirit and agreed to teach him. 

Dargun's rematch with the bully, who had continued to terrorise Dargun's sister, turned out equally as badly as their first encounter. Only this time the bully was nearly killed and Dargun ended up in prison. There he also learnt, just different lessons. Once released, Dargun decided that he had no future with the dwarven community and left to seek his fortune.

*Girl*

It wasn't actually Kylistra's fault. She just happened to be a throwback from an encounter one of her ancestor's had with a succubus. Consequently, she was the black sheep of her, prominent, elven family even before she could walk. Her parents never visited but left her in the care of her tutors. Likewise, her tutors were frightened of her even though she had never done anything to harm them and, in fact, loved them in her own way. Has a result she reached maturity with the finest elven education money could buy, estranged from her family and with absolutely no friends. 

One night Kylistra simply disappeared much to her families relief. After myriad adventures, during which she converted the theoretical knowledge she had been taught to sound practical experience, she join up a group of outcasts like herself.


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## HolyMan (Aug 10, 2010)

Heads up everyone tommorrow night at this time I will be posting up the groups (I hope for two, but ).

So any one interested and still lurking, (yes I'm speaking to you Voda Vosa ) please post your interest and concepts.

Right now there are 6 definites, and 1 strong possible, and 1 possible. 

If I get 8 I will make two groups of 4 with one NPC/later PC for each group. And use an unused concept for the NPC. 

If not I will be forced to drop one person. Something I wish not to do at all.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 10, 2010)

From left to right:

*Marcus Merryflower*, a True Neutral Strongheart Halfing Artificer 10.

[sblock=Story]A very talented lad coming from a large family of eleven, that grew up in the slums district of Athkatla, with a knack for building and taking things aparat. His family being very poor, he was forced a choice of becoming a messenger boy, a baker's apprentice, or helping his mother and father with the family's basket weaving business (which as one might imagine, was not so profitable as to feed scuh a large family).

Being the second child meant that Marcus had little to do in the Merryflower crowded home, but listen to constant screaming, giggling and other such noises common for very young Halfing children. Marcus was very gifted in that he had "hands of gold" as his mother put it, and was able to craft anything out of anything, and repair anything with anything (anything meaning debris and salvaged garbage for his family most of the time).

As luck would have it, Marcus came across a discarded clock one day, in a trash heap on the edge of the district. The thing was badly abused, but the stubborn Halfling did not give up and devoted several weeks of his time in attempts to repair it. Of course, lacking his own room, the boy had found a dusty, rat infested attic to claim as his "workshop", but was happy to spend his time there away from the cacophony of his home.

Almost miraculously, with little to no tools or materials at hand, the lad managed to fix the clock (which was of Dwarven make) and triumphantly brought it to his parents. Upon seeing his achievement, both his mother and father congratulated him and immediately set out to sell the device, much to Marcus's disappointment. But, with the money the family earned, Marcus soon got his own set of tools and gadgets, and his parents set out the children to look for more things Marcus could tinker around with and repair, so they could be sold. It took the lad several years of hard work, but he became increasingly good at his trade, even managing to sneak some magic past the Cowled Wizards as he delved deeper in the mysteries of the Weave and it's correlation with magical items.

Today, Marcus is an adventurer, who set out to earn more funds and supply both his workshop and laboratory, as well as his family (to whom he refers to as the Merrymoochers)[/sblock]

*Lord Richard Sandar* - Lawful Good Human Male Cleric 3 / Church Inquisitor 7

[sblock=Story]Born in a noble family, heir to a title and lands in Rashemen. Throughout his youth, Richard has seen his noble father as nothing more then a puppet on the strings of the powerful Witches of Rashemen. The boy's contempt for the mockery that is made out of the country's nobility grew further, until he chose to denounce his heritage and status as a Noble, and to enter the ranks of the Chirch of Torm.

As a most zealous enemy of corrupt and power hungry cults and dissidents amongst otherwise noble organizations, Richard was quickly chosen to become one of the Chirche's newly formed Inquisitors, and to seek out internal strife and corruptions. After the Time of Troubles, when Torm himself had been made victim of the high clergy's fall from grace, the Temple of Torm has now tripled it's efforts to root out evil and ill intented men.

The Chirch of Torm's Inquisitors are a small but powerful organization with a strict code and hierarchy, and with direct control over all but the highest Clerics of the Order. Distinguishable by their use of the humble quarterstaff instead of Torm's favored greatsword, and the more terrifying and seldom displayed hot iron rods used for violent extraction of truth, the Inquisitors are an unnerving sight to behold for any but the most pure individuals in the service of good.

Richard himself has rooted out evil and burned heretics at the stake, dismantled cults and foiled dark rituals enough to grow in to a devout and honor bound holy warrior, who still carries himself with the grab and manners of a noble.[/sblock]

*Marierle Nightbane *- Neutral Good Sorcerer 8 / Hathran 2

[sblock]A gifted woman with exceptional charm and beauty, who has powerful ancestral blood in her veins. She is Rashemeni and is an accepted, high ranking member of the Witches of Rashemen (or Hathran).

Marierle has had magic coursing trough her blood since she was a little girl, and was an obvious choice for Rashemen's most powerful sisterhood as soon as she was spotted by a Witch traveling trough her town. Despite her frail age, Marierle has quickly risen trough the ranks of the organization, due to her uncanny talent with magic, and has taken in an apprentice soon after being accepted in to the inner circles of the organization.

Her student is a frail, adolescent girl with nearly as much magical aptitude as Marierle herself, and the two are considered to be some of the greatest raw potentials amongst Witches.

Marierle has been set out on an unusual mission, taking her away from her homeland, and leading  her to the Underdark. She does not carry her order's mask, as this is a telltale sign of her true background, but instead poses as a merchant with low magical skills.[/sblock]

*Tombolor Tumblebane* - Lawful Evil Whisper Gnome Rogue 3 / Swashbuckler 3 / Assassin 4

[sblock=Story]A Whisper Gnome child raised amongst Deep Gnomes, Tombolor has strived for acceptance his entire life, until he simply gave up. He has no memories of his early childhood, no parents that he knows of, and two sisters who were married off at a young age by his foster parents. He has been ushered in to his foster father's gold smithing trade, but showed remarkable rebelliousness and a stubborn fascination with the martial arts.

The town he grew in, hidden in the Underdark by powerful Illusion magic, was safe from Drow incursions, but the settlement in which his younger sister Merlista lived was raided by the dark elves, and the girl had been taken captive by a powerful House, and sacrificed to Llolth shortly thereafter.

Bound for revenge, the Tombolor joined one of the numerous Assassin's guild in the Underdark and took on jobs exclusively for the sake of slaying Drow. He is very adept with the light mace and uses dark magics to aid his gruesome deeds. Although he has no moral code per say, Tombolor does not accept missions which involve the slaying of children.[/sblock]

*Garmodak the Great* - Neutral Good Half-Orc Crusader 10

[sblock=Story]A Half-Orc Crusader is a strange sight to behold, even on Faerun where strange usually has more then four legs and more then two eyes. Garmodak was not taken pity by a valiant knight after his Orcish village was razed. He is not the offspring of a raiding Orc warlord. Garmodak is the product of a very intentional romantic relationship between a high ranking Crusader and a female Orc of exceptional (for an Orc) beauty and intelligence. 

Garmodak has been taught in the ways of the Crusader from an early age, and has been tutored, bathed, clothed and taught manners befitting of his father's stature. Hailing from the Dalelands, where Half-Orcs are more common than in the southern parts of Faerun, Garmodak has had an easy time with his peers and the society he has lived in. Having grown in a small castle with servants to attend him and squires to practice with, has earned him a status no less renown than that of a human noble.

Garmodak is, despite his blood, quite timid and contemplative in nature. His skill with the scimitar however, and his inhuman endurance, have made him quite a fearsome defender of the weak. He has been targeted by Gruumsh for extermination, as the Orcish deity finds Garmodak's renouncement of his race's ways as an extreme abomination, but after the twentieth Orc warlord's head found itself impaled upon a spike on Garmodak's family keeps' wall, the attacks have all but ceased.

The Half-Orc, always thirsty for adventure, has found himself chasing a band of Drow raiders down to the depths of the Underdark, where he hopes to bring righteous justice and glory to his family name.[/sblock]

[sblock=Relationships]Marcus is neutral to everyone - he is most concerned with his gadgets, trinkets and research. That being said, he does hold a quiet fascination for the Rashemeni witch, who's beuty is something even the most distracted man cannot ignore.

Richard is suspicious and slow to trust, and as such he keeps everyone some distance away. He takes issue with the Half-Orc because of his unclean blood, but still commends his heroic ways as a Crusader. Richard and Garmodak have enjoyed some pleasant conversations, and the nobleborn cleric is slowly accepting the (also nobleblorn) halfblood as an equal. Richard dislikes the Gnome as there is an unnerving aura about him according to the Inquisitor, and Richard rarely turns his back to the half-man. The Halfing tinkerer and Richard politely ignore each other, and the woman with the Rashemeni accent is one that both fascinates him and enrages him at the same time. Despite not wearing a mask, a Sorceress with an apprentice is someone all too reminding of the dreaded Witches from his homeland. Still, Richard is yet to confront her about her true nature and agenda.

Marierle is well in the guise of a merchant, and believes she has fooled everyone but the suspicious Cleric. She and Misure, her apprentice, are trying to not use powerful magics and keep a low profile, and are traveling together with the others as a means of "protection". She is wary of the other Rashemeni, and of the Whisper Gnome whom she finds simply revolting but fortunately reclusive and quiet. The Half-Orc is pleasant to talk to, and the Halfling seems easy to manipulate via charm alone, and thus Marierle has secured somewhat of a leadership position among this unusual band. Of course, she is careful not to reveal her true mission, especially around the highborn Inquisitor of Torm who seems to have a severe disliking for her Order.

Tombolor is an Assassin and as such rarely speaks or makes his presence known. That being said, he simply can't stand the self-righteous Cleric and the whorish Sorceress. He feels at ease when talking to the Halfling, due to the Artificer's very distracted and non-judgemental character. The Half-Orc seems to take everyone as either brothers or damsels in distress, and Tombolor has decided to try and not make his true nature known to such a zealot. The Gnome has a mission and these people are tools for it's completion, yet he feels an illogical urge to protect Misure, Marierle's teenage apprentice.

Garmodak is fascinated with everything and always positive. His inquiring nature has brought him close to the Halfling and his machinery, as the Half-Orc likes watching the crafty man work. He is also taken with Marierle's beatuy and strives to act as her most valiang and gallant defender, as he believes that women are weaker than men and must be protected. He also likes the Cleric of Torm, whom he understands is also a noble, and tries to speak of martial teachings with him, or of campaigns against evil and other such things. The Gnome is one of dark intentions, but not beyond redemtions as far as the Half-Orc is concerned. The Crusader is keeping a close vigil on the adolescent girl however, as the Gnome has been throwing glances at her when he thinks no one is watching.[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Aug 10, 2010)

As always ML great work, 

They seem listed in order of the picture, I would like to know who your first choice of character would be to play, please.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 10, 2010)

There, added relationships too. I can play all of them. What will my group be in need of? Power wise, the Artificer and Cleric/Inquisitor are #1, the Sorceress with Leadership and circle magic is #2 unless abused, followed by the Crusader at #3 and the Rogue/Swashbuckler/Assassin at #4 (but with some splatbooks Assassins get great spells like Wraithstrike, so he is not underpowered by any means, just not top tier like the "true" casters)


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

And now the post you all have been waiting on. 

Should you not wish to play after all please let me know I will understand as I to have had to drop after wanting to play in something (sorry ML ).

The group:

ghostcat - Dargun
perrinmiller - Morrolan e'Vargach mrith Sveargith (gotta love copy/paste )
jkason - Talhia
ML - Marcus Merryflower
Hella_Tellah - Renard Foucault
Vertexx69 - Platinus

"But HM that makes six." 

"What one, two, oh yah Vertexx69's concept." Well it was to good to pass up and he describes a character truly not pictured and I think the druid will give a little extra healing that can be useful in the underdark. So six it is.

Sorry to everyone else I truly wish their was enough to run two groups. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Here's some pics for you Vertexx69 in case you want one. I like the first one kind of Druidish.

And here is the RG with the Character gene rules and charcter sheet.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/288211-heroes-who-will-brave-city-spider-queen.html

Happy character making. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 11, 2010)

HM; Not a fan of linked sheets?  ie. Myth-Weavers.  

Also, one question though.  The flaws? do we need one and where are we looking for them?


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

You may do one of those link sheets as well for yourself but for me I find grouping things easier when I need to look up something. Like rolling a listen or spot check for you, and I can see all your add ons as well.

You need not take a flaw it is up to you look through the list here and if you think one fits your character please feel free to take it.

EDIT: Even though I do have a sense of humor and am LMAO right now you may not take this flaw - Luposlipaphobia  
Laughing so hard I can bearly type LOL

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 11, 2010)

Ahhh, those flaws.  Personally I don't touch the SRD.  But there are some traits and such in Unearthed Arcana that actually modify some mechanics.  I will take a look and see if anything appears to match Morrolan and ask you about it.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 11, 2010)

HM before i roll my character, a note: DM selecting magical items won't work for an Artificer. The class is good and versatile because it makes it's own magical items. So I'll make some wands and stuff to use with UMD. That's what makes it a "cast everything" class. If you are OK with me spending my GP that way I'll roll, otherwise I'd go with the Sorceress.

~ cut n paste of whole artificer text removed - please don't do that, thanks: Admin~


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok ML that will work go ahead and for your character make your "unique items" and I will still have final approval so no making a D&D version of the A-bomb, 

But to let you know DM selection of magical items would have givin you the ability to have more than average starting gp. And customize them to useful for the adventure at hand.

OH well spend your 49,000gp wisely.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 11, 2010)

Well they are not unique, they will be mostly wands and scrolls and stuff. Got time? Google "Artificers handbook" and see what i mean. If I were running a Cleric or the Crusader sure I'd let you pick the itmes, but Artificers are all about this stuff.

We also have to think abou the crafting points (see the writeup above). They do not carry over levels but he would have used his reserve when he got itat a new level to make some items.  How do you want to go about this?


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Will look into it ML promise.

Ok ghostcats gets first equipment list as I have been waiting to describe that armor the character is wearing in the pic LOL 

Equipment:
_+5 silent(improved), shadow(improved), spiked leather armor of invulnerability_
_+1 greatclub of wounding_
_amulet of natrual armor +1_
_belt of giant strength +2_
_potions of cure serious wounds_ (3d8+15) x2
_potion of remove curse_
_potion of water breathing_

850gp left for other weapons and basic equiment

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok looking over Hella_Tellha's character I see I missed hp/lvl so I have edited the first post in the RG and added something else.

HP will be max per lvl for two reason 1) this is a tough little adventure full of slay living wielding drow priestess so who cares how many hp you have  2) it will stab off the need to rest after every encounter and move things along at a faster pace pbp is slow enough.

Also I added the if you increase a stat permanently you get it's bonus retroactvily. i.e. at 4th lvl you raise your INT from 15 to 16 you get the other 3 skill points as if you had had that INT since day one. Makes for easier character development. Tempory or item raises to a stat do not benefit from this rule they use their normal rules.

and Hella_Tella you may add additional spells to your prayerbook(s) at the cost of twice their listed scroll price. You should look into having a few of the spells from levels to come (6th I think). And you have all core 0 lvl spells and can get any other zero lvl spell added for the cost listed above (I think twice would be 25gp each). I am going to let you keep your equipment but it is hard for me to check it's cost someone else can help. Use the rest of the gold to add to your prayerbooks and make sure to keep under page limit and maybe color cordinate them yellow spells in yellow book, red in red, LOL I may be sneaky and have them lost or stolen as a side quest or filler adventure. 

HM


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## ghostcat (Aug 11, 2010)

Given that Dargun is not a proper monk (aka Kung fu) but more of a skilled martial artist. I am thinking that a Chaos Monk might fit his background better than a regular monk. What do you think HM?

Chaos Monk


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Looks aliright as they are just making it an opposite to a regular monk. And Ki stike (chaotic) would be useful vs drow. So please go ahead but put that link in your RG post for reference please.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Jkason saw you started you character here is your items to help you along.

Equipment:
_Necklace of protection_ (as scarab of protection)
_+3 glamered mithral chain shirt of fire resistance_
_+1 dagger_
_belt of fireballs_ (as necklace lvl 3 with one 3d6 used)
_gloves of storing_ x2
_ring of metamagic, extend lesser _(as rod but takes ring slot)
_potion of cure serious wounds_ (3d8+15)
_potion of invisibilty_

Don't know your spell list of the top of my head but please take two scrolls of your spell choice

400gp to spend on basics from PHB

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 12, 2010)

Can I buy Warbeast training (MMII 325g) for my animal companion Slash the fleshraker to make her a bit more durable? 

Would a "pearl of speech" let me speak the verbal components of spells while using wild shape? This would let me frogo the natural feat spell feat.


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

Warbeast looks fine what does a pearl of speech do excatly??

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Well they are not unique, they will be mostly wands and scrolls and stuff. Got time? Google "Artificers handbook" and see what i mean. If I were running a Cleric or the Crusader sure I'd let you pick the itmes, but Artificers are all about this stuff.
> 
> We also have to think abou the crafting points (see the writeup above). They do not carry over levels but he would have used his reserve when he got itat a new level to make some items. How do you want to go about this?




I was truly thinking of have you play the inquistor because that is something I wanted to see and then Hella_Tellah could have gotten to play the arcane trickster. But I think the healing won out on that one. 

I would refer to your background and say you sold the items so you could send money to the merry mochers all except this last lvl 10th you may either still have the craft points or have used them to create a bonus item that you haven't sold yet.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 12, 2010)

The Pearl of Speech contains a single language. When placed under the tongue it is absorbed, letting the individual understand and speak the language until they speak the command word (Taking up the face slot). Then the pearl reforms and can be removed.

Would I still be able to use my breath weapon while wild shaped?

Would modifiers to stats from leveling up carry over to the wild shape form? Example: I take my standard Large Fleshraker form and gain a str of 25. If I had put my +1 stat bump from gaining 8th lvl into str would it be a 26 or still just 25? Would the wild shape str rise if I had a +X Inherent bonus from a manual or wish?


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

Sounds alright but remember it is exceptable to dispel and negate magic, Where as the feat is always "on". So whatever you replace it with should be really good.

HM


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## jkason (Aug 12, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Jkason saw you started you character here is your items to help you along.
> 
> Equipment:
> _Necklace of protection_ (as scarab of protection)
> ...




Thanks! Added to the sheet. Will keep working on it tomorrow. I don't think I've built a character of this high a level before, and I'm new to beguilers, too, so I'm trying to keep it all straight.


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

Your welcome and NP I think it will be awhile yet till everyone is ready. And has all there t's crossed and i's dotted. 

Let me know when you think you are done and I will give her the once over.

HM


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## renau1g (Aug 12, 2010)

Good luck all, I just regret not getting enough time this last week to put things together. Have fun!


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## perrinmiller (Aug 12, 2010)

Yeah it will take me some time to pull Morrolan together.  I am heading into a 3-day weekend with limited time at the computer and my books.  I did get started on paper though.

I was going to ask for some enchanted Mithral Full Platemail (counts as medium armor) in his equipment.  After seeing a +3 Mithral Chainshirt, I assume that won't be a problem.


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 12, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Sounds alright but remember it is exceptable to dispel and negate magic, Where as the feat is always "on". So whatever you replace it with should be really good.



That's fine as the pearl is a permanent magic item. If it's active effect was dispelled, It would just turn back into a pearl in my mouth, which I could then just reactivate as a free action. If we were in a dead/anti magic zone, I wouldn't be casting anyways.

I would like a ruling on the breath weapon and lvl up str questions I asked either way though, as I'm trying to finish up my sheet. 


I'll PM you with the equipment we talked about.


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

Probably not what are you thinking for classes at this time? And i think the shield will be the "big item" as it stands out.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 12, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Probably not what are you thinking for classes at this time? And i think the shield will be the "big item" as it stands out.



Doh! Forgot about that picture.

I was looking at a Duskblade to level 5 then Dragon Disciple until maxed.

As such Armored Mage only covers up to medium armor and light shields at that point.  I had forgotten that mummy-like monstrosity and didn't think you were going to actually make me have it in my gear.  Further more, Duskblades are not proficient in Tower Shields either.  A Mithral Heavy shield might be usable, risking the Arcane failure or only using it when not casting spells, but as my primary magic item it would be a disappointment.

So... (Kinda in a holding pattern on that build awaiting your comments)

Different question then. On looking at another possibility, how do you feel about Reducing Level Adjustments from Urban Arcana (pg 18). I could go another route, using the Draconic Racial Class Variant (Races of the Dragon pgs 70-71   with fighter. Draconic Level 1 has +1ECL and could use XP to buy it back at 3rd Class Level.  Then sometime around 7-8th Level I would take Draconic Levels 2-3 and complete the Half-dragon process (without wings).  The adjustments for being a level behind after 3rd level's buy back of the +1ECL would be only a few hundred XP by 10th level, almost negligible at that point.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 12, 2010)

Vertexx69 said:


> The Pearl of Speech contains a single language. When placed under the tongue it is absorbed, letting the individual understand and speak the language until they speak the command word (Taking up the face slot). Then the pearl reforms and can be removed.




The Pearl of Speech will not help in this case. You DO know Common when  wildshaped (and still understand it and can nod/bark/wag a tail to  communicate), but: a druid loses her ability to speak while in animal  form because she is  limited to the sounds that a normal, *untrained *animal can make. 

Even if it could help, remember that any gear worn or carried by the  druid melds into the new form and becomes nonfunctional. So the feat is a  must.



Vertexx69 said:


> Would I still be able to use my breath weapon while wild shaped?



No. Wildshape functions like Alternate Form. In Alternate Fomr it is stated: The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (*except for breath weapons* and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or  attacks of its new form.



Vertexx69 said:


> Would modifiers to stats from leveling up carry over to the wild shape form? Example: I take my standard Large Fleshraker form and gain a str of 25. If I had put my +1 stat bump from gaining 8th lvl into str would it be a 26 or still just 25? Would the wild shape str rise if I had a +X Inherent bonus from a manual or wish?



 No. Your STR DEX and CON are *replaced*: The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.

All of this is in the SRD, you could do your own research you know...


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 12, 2010)

Okay, I think my character sheet is pretty well complete. Let me know if you guys see anything that needs to be fixed, or have any suggestions. I _think_ I grabbed up all the major divine spells I'm going to want, but if I'm missing something, holler at me. I tried not to get too cheesy with domain spells; I only chose them from core domains, and not very many at that. I also didn't pick any Shugenja spells, since that would really open up the floodgates. It is really fun to be able to pick from any divine spell list, though!

All of my scrolls are self-made, and they're pretty much an extra copy of every spell in my prayerbooks. First rule of prepared casters: _always be prepared_.  I bought them for 50% plus XP costs, all multiplied by 75% for my Magical Artisan feat.


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 12, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> No. Wildshape functions like Alternate Form. In Alternate Fomr it is stated: The creature retains the spell-like abilities and supernatural attacks of its old form (*except for breath weapons* and gaze attacks). It does not gain the spell-like abilities or  attacks of its new form.
> 
> No. Your STR DEX and CON are *replaced*: The creature gains the physical ability scores (Str, Dex, Con) of its new form. It retains the mental ability scores (Int, Wis, Cha) of its original form. Apply any changed physical ability score modifiers in all appropriate areas with one exception: the creature retains the hit points of its original form despite any change to its Constitution.
> 
> All of this is in the SRD, you could do your own research you know...



The SRD takes some liberties. Here's what alter self actually says: 
You retain all supernatural and spell-like special attacks and qualities of your normal form, except for those requiring a body part that the new form does not have (such as a mouth for a breath weapon or eyes for a gaze attack).

And even though the new form replaces physical stats, doesn't it still count as a 9HD creature (in this case) and therefore qualify for 2 +1 stat bumps of my choice?


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

Vertexx69 said:


> Would I still be able to use my breath weapon while wild shaped?
> 
> Would modifiers to stats from leveling up carry over to the wild shape form? Example: I take my standard Large Fleshraker form and gain a str of 25. If I had put my +1 stat bump from gaining 8th lvl into str would it be a 26 or still just 25? Would the wild shape str rise if I had a +X Inherent bonus from a manual or wish?




Sorry I was still in magic item mode and missed these.

You can not use any of your original abilities as you are not you anymore

and...

Your STR, DEX, and CON are the only stats that do change so no you get the creatures physical stats (no lvl increase or inherent bonus) and keep your own INT, WIS, and CHA (though why you keep the CHA is beyond me). You become the creature physically.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 12, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Doh! Forgot about that picture.
> 
> I was looking at a Duskblade to level 5 then Dragon Disciple until maxed.
> 
> ...




Forgot about the picture Oh man that is the whole reason behind this LOL. Ok I see where duskblade is a good fit. You would have armored mage and all.

So Duskblade 5th lvl is needed and then you take dragon disciple to 5th it will explain why he is so big (+4 STR bonus) and all green (+2 natural armor). 

So the armor will be a breatplate of some kind (no spell failure). And the shield will be a _+ 3 bashing heavy steel(stone looking) shield of undead controlling_. To others it's a tower shield but to your character it is not.

You'll have to play with the arcane failure chance till you reach 7th lvl as a duskblade. Will give you something to look forward to. 

And Vertexx69 already asked about the buy back and the answer was no just try your best like I said before your guy could be a half-orc just that the second parent wasn't human. And you play it as fluff and just take the half orc abilities.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 12, 2010)

HM; ummm no to the breast plate.  

If I cannot have mithral full platemail, then I will likely take Battle caster to wear heavy armor, but I would prefer the mithral version since my feats are stretched thin enough.  This is why I brought it up now.

You can saddle me with the shield, but would rather not have it be so good since it might spend much of its time on his back rather than gamble 15% chance of his primary base class feature fizzling out at the wrong moment.  Would rather go the Draconic Racial Class Fighter Route instead.  I am looking at either using a weapon two handed or using the free hand to make claw attacks.  

Or just make the shield mithral (only 5% Arcane Failure).  His 7th level of Duskblade is at level 17 and a long way off.

Also there is a feat in d20 that is not in D&D that I am interested in.  Agile Riposte. Not sure why it is not available in 3.5edition.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 12, 2010)

HM mind if i use my own stat sheet for this game? Also, you've been giving the others +8 weapons and armour (way above our level in cost), want to give me a gold pool to work with etc? Or do i have to forego item selection completely to get the bonus?


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## ghostcat (Aug 12, 2010)

Just a heads up to let you know I'm still around and working on my character.

Love the armour and have updating my background to include it. 

In order to use it effectively, can I take this feat Armored Monk (3.5e Feat)


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 12, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> You can not use any of your original abilities as you are not you anymore



Hmm Wild shape states you change shape as the polymorph spell, But use  your HD for the new form which lasts druid lvl in hours and only animals  of certain sizes. Polymorph says you change shape as per alter self but  also any size/creature (Animals only etc for druid), replace Physical  stats, heals HP as though rested a night, and :

"It also gains all extraordinary special attacks possessed by the form  (such as constrict, improved grab, and poison) but does not gain the  extraordinary special qualities possessed by the new form (such as  blindsense, fast healing, regeneration, and scent) or any supernatural  or spell-like abilities." _Polymorph_

Alter Self says:

"You retain all supernatural
and spell-like special attacks and qualities
of your normal form, except for those
requiring a body part that the new form
does not have (such as a mouth for a breath
weapon or eyes for a gaze attack)."

Since it specifically uses breath weapon in the example, it should still  work I think. But if you want to rule against it, Its your game


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 12, 2010)

Vertexx69 said:


> Hmm Wild shape states you change shape as the polymorph spell,



No it doesn't, it says that it changes the form as alternate form, which is a different ability with different restrictions. In the text it plainly states you do not get to keep your breath weapon (as i quoted it once already).

You seem to be mistaking Alternate Form for Alter Self, which is a whole 'nother cup of tea.


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 13, 2010)

ah there's our problem. you're reading the SRD while I'm using the actual PHB. The PHB druid says > as polymorph, which says > as alter self. So its a question of which version we are actually using for this game.


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## HolyMan (Aug 13, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> HM; ummm no to the breast plate.
> 
> If I cannot have mithral full platemail, then I will likely take Battle caster to wear heavy armor, but I would prefer the mithral version since my feats are stretched thin enough. This is why I brought it up now.
> 
> ...




I would re-look at the picture he is defienetly wearing a breastplate.



Myth and Legend said:


> HM mind if i use my own stat sheet for this game? Also, you've been giving the others +8 weapons and armour (way above our level in cost), want to give me a gold pool to work with etc? Or do i have to forego item selection completely to get the bonus?




whatever on the character sheet thought what I posted was close to what you like.

Now I said letting the DM choice was better as I am working with the picture but you said you needed to choose what your artificer got so I let you. And they may be ahead now but that only means what they find will be small(er) and will even out at the apropate lvl. So really it's not as bonus.




ghostcat said:


> Just a heads up to let you know I'm still around and working on my character.
> 
> Love the armour and have updating my background to include it.
> 
> In order to use it effectively, can I take this feat Armored Monk (3.5e Feat)




Thanks ghostcat I was going to ask everyone to post something about aquiring his equipment.  The feat looks good (balanced) so go ahead.



Vertexx69 said:


> ah there's our problem. you're reading the SRD while I'm using the actual PHB. The PHB druid says > as polymorph, which says > as alter self. So its a question of which version we are actually using for this game.




Books always take presidence over SRDs and other write ups.

Now speaking of the book:


> This spell functions like _alter self_, except that you change a willing subject *into* another form of living creature.




I change your 20thlvl firebreathing half-dragon fighter into a squirrel, well you can guess that I'm not the one next round running.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 13, 2010)

Hence I won't be able to use ANY of my dragonborn abilities half the time, while I'm wild shaped. Then wings it is.


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## HolyMan (Aug 13, 2010)

But from an RP perspective Vertexx maybe you shouldn't have the wings and then the wild shape becomes useful. (you can fly) 

A dragon with no wings or did you have them and lose them? Is your parent dragon some wingless one? 

One of the reasons I allowed you in as a 6th is the post of you running around the underdark in dino form. Something I wish to read as we adventure.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 13, 2010)

HM;
Not arguingrhe equipment stuff, but it is turning me off on the whole duskblade idea.

Can you look back at the other issue I brought up about buying back the +1 ECL?  If I change to fighter based build then the big shield can be a tower shield.


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## HolyMan (Aug 13, 2010)

Why not a LvL 9 Duskblade/Lvl 1 Dragon Disciple(DD)??

You would have no arcane failure 3rd lvl spells and could advance the whole game as a DD and RP the changes to your character as his dragon blood gets stronger. Would love for you not to have dragon breath to start the game and get it during. 

I did answer the question and you may not buy back ECLs 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 13, 2010)

I must have missed the answer in the walls of text back and forth regarding the other builds.  Sorry.  Did you answer about Agile Reposte?

As for varying the build, I will think about it.  But considering I have had a total one (yes, only one) character of all my games that ever advanced a level...  But considering I have never played with any of you guys before maybe this game will be different.


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 13, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> But from an RP perspective Vertexx maybe you  shouldn't have the wings and then the wild shape becomes useful. (you  can fly)
> 
> A dragon with no wings or did you have them and lose them? Is your parent dragon some wingless one?
> 
> One of the reasons I allowed you in as a 6th is the post of you running  around the underdark in dino form. Something I wish to read as we  adventure.



Oh I fully intend on running through the underdark in dino form, with  slash at my side every step of the way . Dragonborn don't have a  dragon parent. They are called by Bahamut to fight the forces of evil  dragons, undergoing a ritual to become dragonborn. Having the wings only  when not in wild shape gives a way to scout large caverns quickly from  the dark shadows of the ceiling, and a reason to drop out of wild shape  for a being that much prefers dashing through the hills in dino-form  amongst a pack of like individuals. He considers his normal form to be the dream now that he can spend whole days in his "True" form.


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## jkason (Aug 13, 2010)

ETA: Okay, I guess it wasn't answered. heh.

On the wildshape question, I believe the difference is official Wizards errata. They changed wildshape to be as alternate form instead of as polymorph after the PHB was published, and that's reflected in the SRD.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 13, 2010)

Yes, the errata is somewhere on the Wizard's site. So my respect to Holy Man as a game master, but the latest errata is always > whatever previous prints of the book. Same with the 3.0 and 3.5 versions of the same prestige class.

It should be like so:

Hosuerules
Official errata
Official books for 3.5
Official books for 3.0
Third party books for 3.5
Turnips
_vacant slot_
4E


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## HolyMan (Aug 13, 2010)

Sorry gang I have to play with the rules I have (or have had). I can't go finding all the errata figured out from the past 10yrs of 3rd edition.

I have no alternate form spell or have ever heard of it till now. But wild shape is an old ability you shouldn't rule and should play in the spirit of how it was designed... meaning.

You wild shape *into *another animal gaining all it's abilities and keep your own mind (INT, WIS, CHA). You are not a hybird of any sort. You are either a bird, a wolf, or whatever from a MM. That is what it was designed to do it was later they added special magic items to keep your AC and stuff that (while allowable) lost much of the spirit of the ability.

Going to play it as best I can, with what I have and what I have done in the past as DM/player. Please bare with me on some things.

HM


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## jkason (Aug 13, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Sorry gang I have to play with the rules I have (or have had). I can't go finding all the errata figured out from the past 10yrs of 3rd edition.




I don't know if it helps, but I generally use an online, hyperlinked SRD: The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org

For myself, I find it's usually faster to find what I'm looking for than having to flip through a book to do cross-referencing (as an example, per what's been discussed, the Druid entry has a handy link in the class progression table that goes straight to Wild Shape, which in turn links to the alternate form ability in the text at the exact point where the text references it). It has the benefit of already including things like errata and some other open game content in addition to material from the player's handbook, DMG, and Monster Manuals. And, since I can only really game PBP, I'm online anyway most of the time when I need rules.


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 13, 2010)

I've used the actual books for so many years that I know roughly where any given rule is in most of the books.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 13, 2010)

I see no reason for anyone to argue for the PHB over the SRD (which is a PHB+errata). The SRD is free. It's available 24/7 online. It's easy to search and navigate.


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## jkason (Aug 13, 2010)

Okay, Talhia's ready to look at, and hopefully I haven't mucked her up too badly. I modified her background a bit to explain some of her gear and to go with the Nymph's Kiss feat; everything I said about her before still applies, but now there's the addition of a nymph in the  family (it's in her background section). I don't think it really modifies her concept so much as provides a possible source of the magic in her blood. 

Anyway, let me know what ya think.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 16, 2010)

I drafted a sheet so far.  It is Myth-Weavers for now, but once it is done I will copy the relevant data across.

Somethings I need verification on:
1. The number of spells gained per level for Duskblades.  I am not sure if it is 1 spell per level gained, or 1 spell per level that you can cast per level gained.
Meaning when I hit 7th level, I can cast 2nd level spells so I can learn anotehr spell at each 0, 1st, & 2nd.  Is this right?
2. I took some feats, still not 100% on them.  Power Attack, Knowledge Devotion (Complete Champion), Multi-attack (Monster Manual), Obtain Familiar (Complete Arcane), Improved Familiar (Pseudodragon) (DMG)


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 16, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> 1. The number of spells gained per level for Duskblades.  I am not sure if it is 1 spell per level gained, or 1 spell per level that you can cast per level gained.
> Meaning when I hit 7th level, I can cast 2nd level spells so I can learn anotehr spell at each 0, 1st, & 2nd.  Is this right?




You start play with 2 0-level spells, 2 1st-level spells, and a bonus 1st-level spell for each point of INT bonus. At each level thereafter, you learn 1 new spell. That one spell can be of any level you are able to cast, although most players will choose a spell of the highest level they can cast.
At 5th, 7th, and subsequent odd-numbered levels, you can learn a new spell and forget a spell you new previously. The new spell must be the same level as the old spell, and must be two levels lower than the highest level spell you can cast. Since you are starting your character at 7th level, this doesn't mean anything for you, but you will get to swap a spell if you continue to advance in the Duskblade class.


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## ghostcat (Aug 16, 2010)

I have finally got the first draft of Dargun ready. However, I'm waiting until ENWorld sort out their sblock problem before I post it.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 17, 2010)

Thanks, that was how I was interpreting it too.  But I found a blurb someone that caused me to doubt.  So much for hoping for the other scenario.


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## HolyMan (Aug 17, 2010)

If you have time you can either post him without the / in /sblock or just post normal and I can quote the post then copy/paste it to a notepad for going over.

 I hope this is fixed before any of that is needed.

HM


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## ghostcat (Aug 17, 2010)

1st draft of Dargun posted in RG, without sblocks.

Still to do
- normal equipment
- appearance
- background
- level adjustments


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## perrinmiller (Aug 17, 2010)

HM;
Pretty much done all I can without equipment.

Myth-Weavers sheet should match the text version.
BTW, I think sblocks are working again.


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## HolyMan (Aug 17, 2010)

[sblock=??]
I think you are right I was waiting to see what you took for lvls I will have your equipment tonight as I am not home but at Border's relaxing  

What is everyone elses status I am thinking we should be close to starting this time next week.

[/sblock]


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 17, 2010)

I think I'm just about there as well. Just need to write up my spell descriptions.


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## sappire07 (Aug 18, 2010)

are you still recruiting holyman?



if you are im in if you will have me


btw what edition is this?


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## HolyMan (Aug 18, 2010)

sorry sappire07 we are not but you can have an alt spot should you like it.

HM


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## sappire07 (Aug 18, 2010)

thats okay thanks anyway


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## HolyMan (Aug 19, 2010)

Gear for Morrolan; sorry it's late... I get side tracked sometimes...

 ok ok I get side tracked alot, 


_+ 3 bashing heavy steel(stone looking) shield of undead controlling_ (because we have no turn undead in the group)
masterwork _adamantine breastplate_
_+2 keen scimitar_
_belt of dwarvenkind_
_quaal's feather token- swan boat_

Morrolan has read:
_manual of bodily health +2_ and
_tome of understanding +2_

_potion of cure critical wounds_
_potion of levitation_

And you have 600gp for other non magical equipment.

That should finish him out I think.

HM


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## Theroc (Aug 20, 2010)

I realize you're not recruiting, but reading some of the descriptions made me curious to see the actual picture... >.>  It seems to be absent from your original post now.  Can I see it?


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## HolyMan (Aug 20, 2010)

Hey Theroc, 

Yeah I moved it to the RG where I figured it belonged after we got the group together.

Here - http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/288211-heroes-who-will-brave-city-spider-queen.html

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 20, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> _+ 3 bashing heavy steel(stone looking) shield of undead controlling_ (because we have no turn undead in the group)



Can I trade the Bashing off this shield?  With my claw attacks being better that is worthless.
And that 7000gp could be served so much better.
ie. +1 to the Breast plate and some cash for secondary masterwork weaponry.

Plus a customized mithral chain shirt for my familiar.


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 20, 2010)

I've been trying to hint that the shield was actually animated and belongs to Platinus, but HM doesn't seem to be going for it.

Aside from that I think the dino-druid is done.


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## HolyMan (Aug 24, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Can I trade the Bashing off this shield?




No.

This is a bump to see if ML is still with us. If not I will be giving the "gunman" spot to someone else.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 24, 2010)

Ok went ahead and started an IC as Mostly everyone is ready and i think a little RP is in order to get into character. See you here -

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/290600-city-spider-queen.html

HM


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## perrinmiller (Aug 25, 2010)

Question about Fafnir, Morrolan's familiar.

With our inflated Ability scores, does my familiar also get some help in that area.  I can figure out the racial adjustments from the MM.  Could he be built with a 30 point buyin?


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## HolyMan (Aug 25, 2010)

I guess that would be ok as we don't want him dying after encounter #1.

hm


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 26, 2010)

edit


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 26, 2010)

do I get to do that for Slash too?


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## HolyMan (Aug 26, 2010)

Say huh?? - ML is our gunner did I miss something?

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 26, 2010)

Yah I got the two mixed up with so many new games popping up all of a sudden. (I'm in 4 new games, and I'm finding out about a 5th in a couple days.) Is ML talking to you at all? He hasn't responded to my PMs in over a week, so who knows.


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## HolyMan (Aug 26, 2010)

ML is methodical and does alot off line. Won't hear a thing for a few weeks and then get a whole character down to their sleeping habits. But it is unfair to everyone that their hasn't even been a "working on my character post". 

So ML has sometime, the gunman has that stand in the corner watching everything look to him anyway so I'm guessing that's where he is now.

EDIT: go ahead and "re-stat" your companion

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 26, 2010)

Slash is fine the way she is. I started actually breaking the book version of the fleshraker down and its way more than 30 build points. As she is tougher than any of the PCs anyways ;p


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 26, 2010)

Sorry HM I will have to back down for now, and I apologize to everyone else for keeping you waiting. I have been swamped recently and with little to no time for ENWorld. I will be away for this weekend, and i was away this past one as well, and weekends tend to be my best time to do large scale things like a lvl 12 character sheet.

Start off without me or find a replacement, HM willing i could join at a later time.


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## HolyMan (Aug 27, 2010)

Thanks for the update ML I'm sure things will work out. I have a guy wants in so I will see about that. And use you as an alt if you wish. See you in the threads and good luck in RL, I know how that goes. 

HM


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## Malachei (Aug 28, 2010)

Voilá, here I am.

I have posted the background in the RG thread, and I'll join you in the IC shortly. I still working a little bit on the crunch, though.

Looking forward to hunting down some drow with you!


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## perrinmiller (Aug 28, 2010)

Just wondering if our party is such generous heroes to work for free or not.  It would appear that my last IC statement is being ignored by the other characters.


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## ghostcat (Aug 28, 2010)

Added Description and background for Dargun. Also, re-installed sblocks.

Still to do, _Mundane Equipment_


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## ghostcat (Aug 28, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Just wondering if our party is such generous heroes to work for free or not.  It would appear that my last IC statement is being ignored by the other characters.



This is covered by dargun's, newly added, background. basically, he has already been "paid" Not that he would refuse money if offered.


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## Hella_Tellah (Aug 28, 2010)

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> Just wondering if our party is such generous heroes to work for free or not.  It would appear that my last IC statement is being ignored by the other characters.




Not ignored, I just don't want to speak out of turn. You asked Lord Morn a question, so I don't want to be rude and interrupt before he can answer.


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## HolyMan (Aug 28, 2010)

Malachei said:


> Voilá, here I am.
> 
> I have posted the background in the RG thread, and I'll join you in the IC shortly. I still working a little bit on the crunch, though.
> 
> Looking forward to hunting down some drow with you!




Welcome Malachei, can't wait to see what you have come up with.

Sorry I haven't answer the money question I wanted to see if anyone else "piped up".And then got busy. Update on my end today.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 28, 2010)

Hehe looking at the majority of our descriptions and our penchant for daydreaming, I think our group name should be *"The Farseers"*. Beacuse we are a bunch of scatter-brained yokles that like staring off into space!


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## jkason (Aug 28, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Just wondering if our party is such generous heroes to work for free or not.  It would appear that my last IC statement is being ignored by the other characters.




I wasn't meaning to ignore it so much as I figured it was enough to elicit a response from our potential employer, at which point I figured haggling would or would not commence.


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## Malachei (Aug 30, 2010)

Looking forward to starting this epic crusade with you guys -- I think we have a great mix of characters in here.

Aden, of course, is far too lost in thought to think about, let alone discuss, things such as negotiating a price for an undertaking he's already burning for (see background).


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## Vertexx69 (Aug 31, 2010)

So any idea as to what classes your going to fashion out of the gun wielder in the picture yet Mal?


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## perrinmiller (Aug 31, 2010)

Yeah Welcome, Mal. 

BTW, I will be out of town from  Thursday-Sunday, I might not have time to post tomorrow before I leave.  And Internet access might not be possible while I am gone.


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## Malachei (Aug 31, 2010)

Yes. He's a Rogue / Wizard / Unseen Seer. Similar to an AT in party role, but, IMO, definitely a much better way to fill the role. I will post him soon.

And I hope you will need to provide a lot of interaction opportunities for him. In his current state of mind, he is not likely to talk a lot, or react very, well, charming to well-meant questions or comments.


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## perrinmiller (Aug 31, 2010)

Umm, I am really confused by what Duncan said.  Doesn't make much sense to me, IC or OOC.

And Malachei, I think our characters are an established troupe of heroes and friends.  But if I understand you correctly we are supposed to drag personal information and player interaction out of your character like this is a first meeting and a get to know each other situation?  

I am more likely to have Morrolan cuff him in the back of the head and remind him to behave normally like I would my brother than treat him as a newly met fellow companion.  If I am wrong about this, let me know please.


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## Malachei (Aug 31, 2010)

No, it's fine with me that we already know each other -- but I guess, the group being quite diverse, everybody had his 'time off', as well. For Aden, that includes the tragic experience detailed in his background. And even before, he was not the talkative kind.  But I do appreciate involving Aden.


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## HolyMan (Aug 31, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> BTW, I will be out of town from Thursday-Sunday, I might not have time to post tomorrow before I leave. And Internet access might not be possible while I am gone.




Thanks for the heads up.

HM


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## ghostcat (Sep 1, 2010)

I've updated Dargun's background to reflect the fact that the party knew each other before meeting Lord Morn.


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## Malachei (Sep 2, 2010)

I'm aware that party members might have some more questions for the Lord (and Aden is, too). His move towards the door shows his motivation for getting the job done, in a way.

That said, I also think we should go and hunt some drow.


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## HolyMan (Sep 2, 2010)

Soon, and I'll have yor gear tonight I am off to work (yuck).

HM


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## Malachei (Sep 2, 2010)

No worries 

I'm more than happy with the speed you put into character creation. I just wanted to get Aden push a little bit towards going to the crime site, without having to talk.


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2010)

Equipment time and before anything I'm sorry the armor has a spell failure but I needed to keep to the pic and their was no way to change it being a chain shirt.

Aden's equipment:

_+2 slick mithral shirt of invulneraility_
_boots of spider climbing_ (as slippers)
_gloves of dexterity +4_
_"hip" bag of holding_ (type I - special retrieving an item is a free action instead of a move action)
_goggles of night_
_pearl of power (lvl 1)_
_wand of Dispel magic_ 25 charges
_wand of Knock_ 25 charges
_wand of Keen edge_ 25 charges

_"Death Rod" +2 rifle of distance_ Special: May only use special pellets made for it. Acts as a hand crossbow, using all the feats and special rules for it. Any ammunition fire from the Death Rod gains a +1 to hit and damage in addition to any other abilities the ammunition carries.

_Ammunition:_
_100 Flaming_ pellets
_100 Frost_ pellets
_100 Shock_ pellets
_100 Thundering _pellets
_100 Seeking _pellets
_50 Holy_ pellets
_50 Unholy_ pellets
_50 Bane (Elementals)_ pellets
_50 Bane (Undead)_ pellets

_3 potions of cure moderate wounds_ (3d8+10)
_potion of levitation_
2 flasks of Alchemist fire

400gp to spend on misc non magical equipment + mw non-range weapon.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Sep 3, 2010)

The twilight armor ability (+1), lowers ASF chance by 10% which lowers the mithral chain shirt to zero.


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2010)

Hmm... I like the sound of that "twilight" it is dark and maybe you can see little stars if you look close enough. Thanks Vertexx69

Now what to take away because I gave him a spell failure chance 

I gave the armor invulnerability to make up for that 10% chance so why don't you decide Malachei

_+2 slick mithral shirt of invulnerability_ or...

_+3 twilight mithral shirt_ 

The slick was added to give a reason the armor was dark btw.

HM


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## Malachei (Sep 3, 2010)

Thanks, HM, for the list, I am quite happy with it, and thank you, Vertexx for the comment regarding twilight. I love the weapon, and the ammunition is great! I also like the slippers and the 'hip' bag, as well as the PoP.

Regarding the armor: Having no spell failure chance is even more important to Aden than having no armor check penalty (and this is pretty important, to begin with). Obviously, the invulnerability is worth valuable. It would also help Aden's low hit points. But an arcane spell failure chance is too dangerous -- Aden is a primary caster with access to 5th level spells.

Hm. Difficult. I'm thinking mage armor right now.


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## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2010)

Mage armor wasn't an option LOL  

Trying to stick to the pic. He is wearing something, and a -1ACP is quite alright I would think.

HM


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## Malachei (Sep 6, 2010)

Okay, I have updated Aden accordingly. I've chosen the twilight armor, because of the arcane spell failure chance. Thanks again for your work with the equipment.


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## Malachei (Sep 6, 2010)

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> <<OOC: I think blindsense actually works through the walls and doors too. Also Malachei, this blue is hard for me to read, can you switch to this blue? I have a color deficiency and have trouble with certain color combinations. Thanks.>>




Blindsense: I'd say blindsense does not work through walls: 







			
				SRD said:
			
		

> The creature with blindsense usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to notice and locate creatures within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has *line of effect* to that creature.




Color: I had actually used royal blue in my first post because of the better readability, but later forgot. Sure, I will stick to royal blue, no problem


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## perrinmiller (Sep 6, 2010)

re: Blindsense: Bad memory on my part. Hmmm, makes sense to actually work around corners by that description though, wonder why it doesn't being limited to Line of Effect.

Thanks on the color thing.


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## Malachei (Sep 6, 2010)

I guess one way is to figure it similar to a bat's ability ("batsense"), like sending out supersonic waves or something similar -- you need some sort of connect for the sense to receive information. It is different from tremorsense, which requires that the creatures need to be on solid ground.


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## HolyMan (Sep 7, 2010)

Ok I see alot going on in the IC (major jump checks Vertexx69, going to need to add some chasms to this game). But I don't see anyone choosing of the options. LOL 

So as we still need combat blocks please list up spells for the day, abilities, items, and any other things that we need to keep track of.

Make sure if you "power up" you list original and then agumented stats as one drow might dispel them, and another then attack. And I don't have all the books so anything not core or DM2/PHB2 needs to be explained out.

Ok that should keep you all busy for a couple days, LOL please post your combat blocks and remember things you have used so far - casted message, used on wild shape ability, dragonsight in use, etc.

And list an option please, and thank you.

HM


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## Malachei (Sep 7, 2010)

If by option you mean which structure to approach first, Aden will sneak towards the closest building first, together with Dargun. He makes sure they stay close (within approximately 30 ft.), and he also signals Talhia and the others to follow, as soon as they have closed in on the building -- to make sure the distance to Talhia and the others does not get too big. I have asked about the distance in my IC post, could you please give some information on the general layout (i.e. distance to the closest structure and distances between the three structures)?


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## HolyMan (Sep 8, 2010)

Hey Malachei just a few things to comment on. I don't see items listed like potion, scrolls, and the wands. You can list spells and cross them off like this  and give a duration please.

Distance isn't truly important out here in the open where you can be just about anywhere. Once inside the underdark, as your visioin/movement is limited by where you are at then I will have a map up. Now I just need to know where you wish to be and you will be there.

But to help alittle...

A main path goes between both buildings to the doors in the hill side. Both the buildings are sealed up tight no visible holes or other ways in except the doors.

Each building's doors face each other with about 20' apart from them. And each building is about 50' from the wear the hill starts to climb up, and the alcove sits.

HM


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 9, 2010)

It's looking like nearly every post has some form of passive-aggressive editorializing about other players' characters. If we were all at a table together, would you really roll your eyes at one another and complain about everything other people are doing? Let's try to be a little more polite to each other, okay guys? If you don't like what another player did, you should bring it up in this thread, rather than having your character kvetch about it in the In-Character thread.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 9, 2010)

Not sure if there are any feathers actually ruffled or not.  At least not from my chair anyway. However I do sense some impatience out there.

But I think the stealth bit went out the window from the very beginning.  Half the group is just not capable of it.  I guess the real question is, if some people want to do stealthy scouting, there are some good ways of doing it.  

But if the scouts want the others to stay put then it is best to discuss it between the characters first rather than assume the armored front line troops are just going to wait.  If you are going to want to search for traps, say so.  Frankly, I wasn't expecting any, but neither Morrolan or Platinus had moved to open the door yet.

For opening door procedures, is it going to be Morrolan or Platinus?  Makes no difference to me either way, but I wasn't sure the druid can actually manage to open a door or not in his current form.  But if others are going to do it, by all means my tank can bring up the rear.


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## Malachei (Sep 9, 2010)

Well, honestly, I hadn't been seeing any issues at all. I'm fine.
Aden, of course, is a trained professional, who, besides being cynical and heartbroken, is really focused on his core role. He will always try to do a stealthy approach, even when it is not necessary -- it is his role. Of course, the dinosaur-jumping acton might bother _him_, but it does not bother me (the player) at all.

I took some care doing Aden's background story, and I think it pretty much explains him and his behaviour. Aden being more the silent guy, he's not going to talk a lot at all, and is certainly not the one who will ask others to wait until he has done his thing -- we might have to resort to that kind of group planning discussion to improve tactics later on, but for the beginning, I'd really like to stay in character as much as I can. I hope you don't mind  his personality -- for me, Aden has already come alive, and I am looking forward to seeing his motivation to fight drow put into action.

On a more specific note: I'm not sure what lets us expect traps / ambush or not. I'd rather search one time too many than vice versa. We don't have time pressure right now, so I think this is also a good opportunity to get to know the different approaches other characters will take. I think it is both important and fun so see how differently we would approach the site, and at the same time I don't think we did a major mistake yet. So it's good we get to know each other. One thing I've seen is that we all acted simultaneously. I'm not saying we need a commander, but of course, we can look at the different party roles and where they will shine. So I'd expect someone (not Aden) to take a lead when we go into combat, etc.
Stealth etc. is obviously where Aden shines, so this is where he will go ahead and do the job. Right now this means he's looking for traps.

And hopefully, there are none, and that will get us closer to the hunting the drow.


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## ghostcat (Sep 9, 2010)

Sorry if you think we are getting at each other. From my POV (as a player), I'm quite happy at the way things are going and have no problems with anyone's actions. On the other hand, from a character's POV. Well Dargun has a 6 charisma, so don't expect him to be polite or hide his feelings.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 10, 2010)

HM brought a good point about an SOP.  That was sort of what I had been trying to establish in a round-about way IC.  But in looking at the latest map, I had not realized how crowded and cramped things will become inside dungeons.  With 5 medium characters it wasn't too bad, but adding a 6th (Platinus) and 7th(Slash) to the party, both being large to boot, we are not going to have any room to maneuver.

Without having seen the source material that HM will be using, I am wondering if we are going to run into issues. Perhaps we should go old school and forget the tactical grids completely. HM can use that time he saves from map-making to provide the descriptions in IC instead and we can play it loose.

Standard Operation Procedures (SOP): (Draft)
1. Let the Rogue Search for traps in passages and doors before the tanks advance.  We have Fafnir's Blindsense toward the front for souting.  
2. After doors are cleared and unlocked, either Slash or Platinus open them as one of them is in the front line with Morrolan.  The other can protect the rear. 
3. That leaves the four remaining characters in the middle.  Aden and Durgan should probably be in the 2nd row to leap frog ahead and back for scouting or trapfinding, when Fafnir's senses cannot check everything.
4. Illumination? How are we fixed for those without Darkvision?

Once this is worked out then HM can just move us through the tedious parts of the dungeon crawl so we can focus on the decisions and results of what we come across.


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## Vertexx69 (Sep 10, 2010)

Platinus has darkvision 60ft and a ring of darkvision that makes him invisible to the dark vision of others, so I would prefer if he was traveling outside the lighted area as a nasty surprise for those we encounter in the underdark. Slash only has low-light vision so needs some sort of light for the time being (but is wearing several magic items that could glow).

Our main attack maneuver is the leaping pounce, which lets us make full attacks after a leaping charge + a free trip attempt with every hit and a free grapple once that trip succeeds. This can leave up to 2 enemies prone and 2 prone & grappled (No dex to AC) on the 1st round of combat. You get into flanking and that's a +6 to hit or better for everyone.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 10, 2010)

How come you got to play around with some cool, off the wall build while the rest of us were stuck with a picture to work off of? Heck, I am even stuck with the gear in the picture. LOL 

Those tactics sound great BTW, but again it assumes a significant amount of room to maneuver.

Oh, Morrolan and Fafnir both have Darkvision.


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

Okay, guys, so here's my math:



			
				HM's post in RG said:
			
		

> 7) EDIT: PC's get max HP per class lvl (as like I said this is a tough one), and any change in a stat that is permanent gets retroactivity... meaning increases in INT do to lvl up give you skill points as if you had that INT since day one.




So I simply applied HM's ruling. Maybe somebody gets some more skill points now... anybody increased his/her INT on the way?



			
				HM's post in IC said:
			
		

> Total Ranks 96 = 8 [Rogue] + 8 [Wizard] + 30 [Unseen Seer] + 50 [INT]
> Total Used in RG = 147 [51 extra]




Available skill points (class+int+human):

1st level rogue = (8+5+1) * 4 = 56
4 levels of wizard = (2+5+1) *4 = 32
5 levels of US = (6+5+1) = 60

SUM = 148

HM's count says 147. I've summed up the points in the RG, and I get 147, as well. Well, I guess, I've saved one skill point for later. The languages are bonus for high int.

Side note: Aden has the Able Learner feat from RoD. This means you can purchase all skills for one point, even if it is cross-class. It was elemental to the concept of Aden, as otherwise, he would not have been able to increase several rogue skills as wizard. Only humans can take it, and it has to be taken at 1st level -> if that is available as a houserule, I would not need this feat.


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

Regarding the OP:

Yes, Aden was trying to establish an OP in the IC "on the way". Of course, he does this rather _nonchalant_. Well, to be more specific in OC, I'd agree to what perrinmiller has posted. Aden is more than happy to stay behind when entering hostile territory, as that let's him position for ranged combat. However, I'd also say if the warriors move through a door, and they do not see an enemy, or if the room (cave?) is large, the rogue takes the front, scouting again.

Also, I'd like to suggest:

4. No light while scouting and out of combat, unless necessary

I'd say standard OP is we do not have a light source at all. This would provide us with opportunities to gain surprise on the defenders. 

Morroland + Fafnir have Darkvision, so does Dargun, as well as Platinus.

Aden has Darkvision (Goggles of Night).

I think we should consider using Darkvision as a spell for those few who don't have, rather than signalling our approach to all Drow sentries. If I am not mistaken, Renard can cast darkvision.

5. Light while in combat, if circumstances permit

Having a strong light source will help us in combat (hurting the drow's eyes). The more this light comes as a surprise, the better. We could, for instance, have a stone with a daylight spell or some other light source sealed in one of our bags (bag of holding etc.) and pull it out once we make enemy contact.


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## Vertexx69 (Sep 10, 2010)

Oh, Platinus will offer to coat anyone's weapons in Slash's poison who isn't opposed to the idea. Since he's applying it, there's no chance of accidental exposure. It's 1d6/1d6 dex dmg DC 21 poison. And we have an unlimited supply. I don't know if poison can be added to the gun pellets though.


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

If HM agrees on this, and if Aden does not have a chance of accidental exposure (see, I am not an Assassin after all, am I?), I'd gladly have you coat a few of my pellets.

For the OP:

When scouting, Aden will stay between 30' to 60' ahead of the party (i.e. those who cannot sneak), in order to be quiet enough.



			
				HM said:
			
		

> OOC: And for those who need a map.






			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> HM can use that time he saves from map-making to provide the descriptions in IC instead and we can play it loose.




I'd like to point out that I have asked for directions. I have not asked for a map. That said, knowing the surrounding is perhaps more important for somebody scouting the terrain. As the party scout, I'd really like to know the general layout, including distances to make my move. A good description does not require a map at all. By HM's entry post to the situation, I had no idea he wants to railroad this and cut it short. Now we're in one of the buildings, and it smells undead -- so I'd rather stay careful, really.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 10, 2010)

I will take some of that poison, sure.  Coat my scimitar, javelins and arrows, please.

If we have the advantages, let's use them.


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## ghostcat (Sep 10, 2010)

Dargun's Move Silently and listen are on a par with Aden. Also, he as a chance of identifying dodgy stonework just by passing. So I suggest he sticks close to Aden and acts as bodyguard, while Aden is scouting, checking for traps etc.

No poison for me. i tend to use natural weapons.


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

Yes, Aden would appreciate Dargun to stay close.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 10, 2010)

Fafnir can sit on a shoulder and you can have auto success on the Spot and Listen with his telepathic communication.


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 10, 2010)

Renard will shout advice (Dark Knowledge) and wait to be consulted on questions of scholarship. Any attempts to scout or fight would end in a bloody, embarrassing mess. He'd be happy to buff you, though, so if you see anything in his spell list you like, feel free to assume Renard has filled you in on which spells he can offer. With a search check of 15, he's probably not the best in the group, but please feel free to ask his help.


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

Thanks. Search 15 is not bad at all, IMO.


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2010)

Malachei said:


> Available skill points (class+int+human):
> 
> 1st level rogue = (8+5+1) * 4 = 56
> 4 levels of wizard = (2+5+1) *4 = 32
> ...




Seems I forgot about mutiply ranks times 4 at first lvl and the human bonus. I now have 148 as a total. Always remember math and the HolyMan don't mix.

I am actually glad for the Able Learner it saved on the headache of figuring which skills ranks you used on cross-class skills at which levels.

NOTE: once you all have your SOP for when you find a door, marching order, and watches let me know them and I will post them in the first post of the IC for easier reference. And maybe we won't have to spend a week standing in front of a door wondering who does what.

HM


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## jkason (Sep 10, 2010)

Talhia has Trapfinding as a class feature, but I didn't put any points into her Searching / Disabling with the assumption that our Artificer (now Aden) would be handling that. Possibly not especially well thought-out on my part to put so much into social skills in what looks like it may be more of a dungeon delve, but it works conceptually, so I'll stick with it.

Talhia's also one of the few without any low-light / darkvision capability

When it comes to doors, things to consider as far as she goes:

* If a lock looks particularly nasty to try to pick, she has knock on her spell list.

* As far as charging in, remember, too, that Talhia has a number of illusion spells that might be of use: several invisibility effects and silent, minor, and major image. If we know there's a fairly significant problem on the other side of a door (listen check, or can Fafnir's telepathy detect thoughts through a door?), Talhia can vanish the party and send in one or more distracting illusions that would draw attention while we get through the door and set ourselves up for attack. 

* She also has a necklace of fireballs, so we can always lob one of those into the room first, too, before anyone gets in the way.  

I guess I don't know how comfortable I am with just saying 'this is what Talhia does at every door,' given that there are a number of viable options, and there are any number of variables that 'coming to a door' can entail. Is it a heavy, ornate door? Are there noises on the other side? What kind? 

Assuming that it's an unremarkable door with nothing special for its lock, and scouty types don't detect anything noteworthy on the other side, SOP is that Talhia keeps her crossbow ready and doesn't do much other than wait for the door to open.

If there *is* something noteworthy about a door (we find a trap, the lock is especially difficult and thus suggests something bigger on the other side, there's some kind of noise that makes us think there are enemies there), I'd like the option to have at least a minor consultation. I mean, that's the point of scouting, isn't it? To get advance information and make decisions based on it?


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

HM, Hope you're feeling better!
(your posting rate suggests)

I did not know Platinus and Slash would be taking four squares, the map was a great help here. That will affect our positioning and the SOP. Nonetheless, no problems if we don't have a map where you don't need one.

--> jkason and Hella-Tellah: Maybe Renard can cast darkvision on Talhia?

[sblock=SOP]
General Movement SOP (draft)

1. The scout (Aden) goes first.
2. Those of the party who are unable to sneak / move silently stay approximately 30 ft. - 60 ft. behind
3. Dargun sneaks along with the Aden. While Aden searches for traps, for instance, Dargun will act as sentry, keeping an eye on the surroundings.
4. We will use no light while scouting and exploring (i.e. normally, we will use light only in combat)
5. The fighers (tanks -- Morrolan, Platinus with Slash) will enter rooms first after the scout has cleared them

[sblock=-> Marching order

10 ft. corridor:

```
1 1 1 1 1 1 1S1S1P1P1 1 1M1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1A1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 1S1S1P1P1R1T1 1 1 1 1 1 1D1 1 1 1
```
A = Aden
D = Dargun
M = Morrolan
P = Platinus
R = Renard
S = Slash
T = Talhia

Just a quick draft so we can discuss. Maybe we can get this into a better map eventually. In the draft, I have positioned Platinus and Slash in the back, because I thought maybe we should have Renard and Talhia in the middle to have the max. protection. I think both Platinus and Slash move really fast, so they would be able to close more quickly than anyone else, right?
[/sblock]

Combat SOP (draft)

0. If we have surprise, scout will try to get a ranged sneak in before enemies are in melee
1. Front-line fighters will close in or charge enemies (Morrolan, Platinus, Slash) - they will try to bind the enemies, so they cannot attack the spellcasters
2. One of us (who?) will pull out the light item
3. The scout will stay in ranged combat whenever possible
4. Dargun is pretty mobile and can be "sweeper", i.e. close in with enemies who are not tackled by the front-liners
5. Both Talhia and Renard will cast spells and stay out of range


So this is really only a rough draft, and perhaps perrinmiller can go from there and update his version, or we could discuss.
[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Sep 10, 2010)

Yes I am feeling better (thank you) need to upgrade my status LOL. Just needed a couple days of sleep.

HM


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 10, 2010)

Malachei said:


> --> jkason and Hella-Tellah: Maybe Renard can cast darkvision on Talhia?




I was about to suggest that very thing!  I'd need to meditate a few minutes to fill my empty spell slot, though, since Renard's definitely taking one casting of Darkvision for himself!


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## Malachei (Sep 10, 2010)

--> HM: Great! Sleep is most often the best remedy.

--> Hella-Tellah: Great! I guess this will be part of the "start-of-the-day SOP" as long as we are in the underdark?


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## perrinmiller (Sep 11, 2010)

For the Actual SOP stuff, opening doors and watching order, I have no problems with it.  But so far it didn't mention whether Aden or Dargun want Fafnir on their shoulder or not.  His flying is not as stealthy as just sitting there.  Also for watch rotations, the biggest consideration is coordinating 8 hours uninterrupted sleep for spell casters.  Morrolan needs 8 hours of uninterrupted rest to recover his spells, but only 15 minutes to prepare them.  

As for the Combat SOP, throw that out the window.  Once initiative starts SOP is not longer applicable.  SOP is only for HM to move us along *until* we need to react and make decisions for ourselves.

Instead of a Combat SOP, I suggest everyone should share their standard tactics.  And then we each post them in our character posts for others to reference later, rather than try to find them here in the OOC thread.  Those will always be subject to change as spells are used, heavy damage is taken, or cool new items are found and able to be used.

Also HM, I have a request.  Can you put [IC], 







*OOC:*


, and [RG] in the beginning of our thread titles to make them easier for me to find in my Subscriptions list.


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## Malachei (Sep 11, 2010)

Aden will not take Fafnir on his shoulder -- Lai would not appreciate, and cats are not good at sharing (especially not the attention they feel they deserve).


It is fine with me to post individual tactics in the character post, and of course I agree there is no standard combat, but we could still agree on some general tactics we plan to use as a group and then adapt as we go on. For instance, having one person draw out a stone with daylight on it will be an advantage in a combat versus drow -- either they take the disadvantage, or they have to cast darkness or evade the area.


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## HolyMan (Sep 12, 2010)

All SOP's should be made considering optium conditions (full hp, no adverse conditions, etc.) Once you get into the dungeon proper and need a "quick" switch till back at optium I will of course allow that.

This is really so when I say you come to a "T" section in the corridor I don't have to say "Which way do you go?" and wait four days till everyone agrees on a direction I can just post you through that.

So you will need marching order, watches, and which way do you normally turn (LOL). When you come to a door and do the check traps, listen, open locks, open door. That only goes for normal "nothing found" doors. Soon as one thing on the list comes up we will halt for everyone to react. Soon as you come to a room(without a door) or open area, again we pause for everyone to give thoughts on what they want to do.

Combat should be general I agree more of a what I usually like to do, so if it presents itself I will type thing. 

Now is everyone OK with the stuff below so far?

[sblock=SOP]
General Movement SOP (draft)

1. The scout (Aden) goes first.
2. Those of the party who are unable to sneak / move silently stay approximately 30 ft. - 60 ft. behind
3. Dargun sneaks along with the Aden. While Aden searches for traps, for instance, Dargun will act as sentry, keeping an eye on the surroundings.
4. We will use no light while scouting and exploring (i.e. normally, we will use light only in combat)
5. The fighers (tanks -- Morrolan, Platinus with Slash) will enter rooms first after the scout has cleared them

[sblock=-> Marching order

10 ft. corridor:

```
1 1 1 1 1 1 1S1S1P1P1 1 1M1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1A1 1
1 1 1 1 1 1 1S1S1P1P1R1T1 1 1 1 1 1 1D1 1 1 1
```
A = Aden
D = Dargun
M = Morrolan
P = Platinus
R = Renard
S = Slash
T = Talhia

Just a quick draft so we can discuss. Maybe we can get this into a better map eventually. In the draft, I have positioned Platinus and Slash in the back, because I thought maybe we should have Renard and Talhia in the middle to have the max. protection. I think both Platinus and Slash move really fast, so they would be able to close more quickly than anyone else, right?
[/sblock]

Combat SOP (draft)

0. If we have surprise, scout will try to get a ranged sneak in before enemies are in melee
1. Front-line fighters will close in or charge enemies (Morrolan, Platinus, Slash) - they will try to bind the enemies, so they cannot attack the spellcasters
2. One of us (who?) will pull out the light item
3. The scout will stay in ranged combat whenever possible
4. Dargun is pretty mobile and can be "sweeper", i.e. close in with enemies who are not tackled by the front-liners
5. Both Talhia and Renard will cast spells and stay out of range.
[/sblock]

HM


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## HolyMan (Sep 12, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> Also HM, I have a request. Can you put [IC],
> 
> 
> 
> ...











*OOC:*




You don't have an IC, OOC, and RG folders in your subscription area?

HM


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## perrinmiller (Sep 12, 2010)

I do, but load times for EnWorld on my iPhone can be quite lengthy.

But I was finally able to figure out how to delete old subscriptions and that helps trim the old crap away.


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## jkason (Sep 12, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Now is everyone OK with the stuff below so far?
> 
> [sblock=SOP]
> General Movement SOP (draft)
> ...





Sure. I'll vote yes. I have no preference of a turning direction. Given that Aden will have the best view of what's down any corridor, I'm fine with letting him make the decision at turn points.


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 12, 2010)

May I make a radical suggestion? Rather than dicker about with turning left here or turning right there, why don't we abstract that whole business down a bit, and just go from one interesting place to the next? "You navigate through a series of twisting caverns for a few minutes and come upon a steel door engraved with an image of Llolth."* If we don't have an interesting decision to make, I'd as soon not bother with the details and get on to the juicy bits.

*Or whatever's appropriate to the situation.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 12, 2010)

Yep, I agree.  

I still don't like the idea of someone dictating my combat actions so whether I actually follow that SOP will always depend on the situation.  But by and large it is so general, that it is valid in most situations with respect to Morrolan anyway.  

Also still haven't heard if Dargun will take the Fafnir along or not.


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## Malachei (Sep 13, 2010)

---> perrinmiller, I think the SOP is not about forcing a course of action upon us -- IMO, it is just some set of basic tactics we use, unless we state otherwise.

--> Hella-Tellah: Regarding skipping the "empty" sections, I agree with you, and I am sure HolyMan will do this when appropriate to move us on. But often, we'll have to find out the right way by ourselves.

--> HolyMan: Any result of the search of the room?


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## ghostcat (Sep 13, 2010)

--->perrinmiller; Dargun has no objections to having Fafnir along.As long as he is house-trained  and has the sense to leave before trouble strikes.

As far as the SOP, its fine by me.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 13, 2010)

He has sense.   He has a good AC, Evasion, and Spell Resistance so I am not worried if you guys get hit by surprise either.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 14, 2010)

So... Who are we waiting on?


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 14, 2010)

Well, I rolled a Knowledge (Religion) check to identify the sarcophagus, so I'm waiting on the results of that.


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## Malachei (Sep 14, 2010)

And I rolled a search check and am waiting for the results.


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## HolyMan (Sep 14, 2010)

And I am waiting on a final SOP so I can tell everyone this masoleum is empty.

HM


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 15, 2010)

HolyMan said:
			
		

> And I am waiting on a final SOP so I can tell everyone this masoleum is empty.
> 
> HM




I thought there was one...? I really don't care about these kinds of decisions, so whatever you guys like is fine. I'm here for the story more than the tactics.


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## Vertexx69 (Sep 15, 2010)

Just one thing about the Marching Order. Since Slash needs light and Platinus doesn't lets switch their order and move me to the back. We move at 60ft anyways so can make our leaping charges from up to 120ft back. 

And for light source I'd say only the person at the exact middle of the marching order should light up a magic item somewhere on their person.


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## ghostcat (Sep 15, 2010)

So are we going to try the new ENWorld dice roller or stick with IC?


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## perrinmiller (Sep 15, 2010)

*Move Action:* Holding my finger to my nose
*Free Action:*  Says, "Not it"
*Standard Action:* Look around the table to spot who hasn't approved the SOP yet.  Rolled a 1, failed.

SOP is fine by me and I agree with skipping empty rooms if we can.  If we need to have a standard direction to turn, "Right".  But only if there are no other pieces of information to assist in the decision.  For example: we hear or see something to the left and the right corridor clearly ends in a door, then we would probably want to go left first, or at least be able to discuss the decision.

One thing not addressed yet.  Decision making.  With 6 players things can get long and drawn out.  If we have 4 people that agree on something, that should be enough to act as long as the other 2 have had ample opportunity to object (at least 24 hours RL particularly since some of us are halfway around the world from each other).  We could even go with 3 people and 1 abstention (or vote of 'makes no difference to me') for a majority.


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## jkason (Sep 15, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> SOP is fine by me and I agree with skipping empty rooms if we can.  If we need to have a standard direction to turn, "Right".  But only if there are no other pieces of information to assist in the decision.  For example: we hear or see something to the left and the right corridor clearly ends in a door, then we would probably want to go left first, or at least be able to discuss the decision.
> 
> One thing not addressed yet.  Decision making.  With 6 players things can get long and drawn out.  If we have 4 people that agree on something, that should be enough to act as long as the other 2 have had ample opportunity to object (at least 24 hours RL particularly since some of us are halfway around the world from each other).  We could even go with 3 people and 1 abstention (or vote of 'makes no difference to me') for a majority.




This all works for me, if I didn't post that before.


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## Malachei (Sep 15, 2010)

I agree.

Well need some general tactics and SOP and party rules, but I'd love to focus on the gaming and just have the necessary metagaming done along the way. My impression is, we're probably all experienced in this, and I hope we'll know when a decision has to be general consensus, and when a decision can be just taken by a majority or even a single player. For example, if one is scouting ahead, taking a left or right turn will probably not require a big OOC discussion. If, however, we know that left is a beholder, and right is a strike team of drow, we would definitely want to discuss where to go. Facing a tough challenge or hard decision could even mean we should wait or PM people not currently on, but that is HM's decision then.

From my point of view, the SOP is pretty much complete, and we might change marching order along the way, so I'd say let's go...

... and rock.

HM, please indicate if there's any specifics you are missing from the SOP that you would need to go.


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## jkason (Sep 17, 2010)

Okay, apologies for my latest IC post. I got myself turned around about which doors were which, and convinced myself that the sealed doors were in the hillside, not the tomb (it's been a long day). I edited the post with the assumption that Talhia wouldn't be confused because she's actually there looking at the doors even though I'm not.


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## HolyMan (Sep 18, 2010)

ghostcat said:


> So are we going to try the new ENWorld dice roller or stick with IC?




I don't want to use the die roller for alot of my games but I think for this one it will be alright. 

So please everyone let's give the die roller a whirl. I know you can't know if you hit or not till you post but you can just post a placeholder than roll then go back and edit your post.

HM


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## HolyMan (Sep 18, 2010)

jkason said:


> Okay, apologies for my latest IC post. I got myself turned around about which doors were which, and convinced myself that the sealed doors were in the hillside, not the tomb (it's been a long day). I edited the post with the assumption that Talhia wouldn't be confused because she's actually there looking at the doors even though I'm not.




And not having a long day? LOL She is just out hunting drow. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Sep 22, 2010)

Not spoil the role-playing fun or anything, but why don't you list the who, what, where, when, why, and how questions in one large post. Regardless of the answers received you will still ask them. 

Then you can ask the follow-on questions one at a time.  At the rate you are going, this could take the rest of the month and halfway through October RL and we might lose players in the mean time.


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 22, 2010)

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> Not spoil the role-playing fun or anything, but why don't you list the who, what, where, when, why, and how questions in one large post. Regardless of the answers received you will still ask them.
> 
> Then you can ask the follow-on questions one at a time.  At the rate you are going, this could take the rest of the month and halfway through October RL and we might lose players in the mean time.




Well, we've got 5 questions; 2 down and 3 to go. If you're bored, why don't you ask the next one?


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## perrinmiller (Sep 22, 2010)

Not bored myself, I have plenty of other games to keep me busy while waiting.  Just thinking of others, that's all.


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## Malachei (Sep 22, 2010)

This will take a long time anyway, City of the Spider Queen is a supermodule / small campaign -- I guess it occupies the same spot on the shelf as (Return to the) Temple of Elemental Evil or the GDQ Giants-Drow series.

So we (the players) should better be in this for the long run. I guess there will be similar situations, occasionally (such as vacation, heavy workload, etc. or in-game, such as one character having the necessary abilities and the others waiting for the result). IMO, rushing things will not help, only long-term commitment can keep the party together.

I think this situation is perfectly fine, as well, because Renard had invited the others to take part in the questioning -- due to whatever reason (online times, etc.), most did not, which is ok, because Hella_Tellah can finish the questioning on his own -- but I like that he invited us first. I mean, we're not only here for the combat, are we?


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## jkason (Sep 22, 2010)

I hadn't piped in on questioning so far because I didn't have anything non-standard to ask at this point. So, I'm here, just trying to stay out of the way unless an answer makes me think of something better to ask. 

jason


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## Vertexx69 (Sep 25, 2010)

Did we ever get an answer on the "Poison" question I asked earlier? As we are at the entrance, now would be the time to coat every weapon of those unopposed to its use. If it wasn't done before.


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## HolyMan (Sep 26, 2010)

You characters have been traveling as a group for a while so whoever wishes to have the poison can have it, BUT please post (starting now) whether you will take it or not. You have till the first combat to let me know or it will be to late.

HM


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## Hella_Tellah (Sep 26, 2010)

Renard doesn't have a weapon that can be effectively coated in poison, and probably shouldn't get himself into a position where he'd be able to use it, in any case. So I'll decline.


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## ghostcat (Sep 26, 2010)

Dargun tends to use natural weapons, so it will do more arm to him then the enemy. So he will also decline.

There again, he could have it on the spikes of his armor but that sounds to me like there is too much risk of accidental exposure bot to him and the others.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 26, 2010)

Already said when this first came up that Morrolan would use it.  Haven't changed my mind.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 27, 2010)

HM; Let me know if you want some help with the maps.  You got the jpegs, I can put them quickly into grids.


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## Malachei (Sep 27, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> HM; Let me know if you want some help with the maps.  You got the jpegs, I can put them quickly into grids.




Excellent suggestion!

I have done a token of Aden.

If you can provide me with character jpegs, I can do that for all of us, so we can put the PCs on the maps, as well.


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## HolyMan (Sep 29, 2010)

Trying to update but running out of time (need to catch the bus home) will finish tonight.

Also I don't like the EnWorld dice roller for multiple attacks it doesn't let you do two or more that I see. Will IC full attacks and such from here on out.

Gtg but will finish tonight.

HM


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## Malachei (Sep 30, 2010)

HM, taking up what perrinmiller suggested, I guess it must be a lot of work for you to do the coded maps of the locations.

As the adventure comes with maps, if you could scan them, we could work right within the original maps. If you can't scan them, the link to the WOTC website could be of help.

With free software, jpgs can easily be transformed into battle maps, and we could put player counters (tokens) and monster tokens on them. This can conveniently be done with GIMP (basically free photoshop) and the Maptool of RP-Tools. There are many other possibilities, of course, such as DunDjinni etc. Any picture-editing software will probably be a good start.

See here or here for an example how this can be used in actual PbP play. 

I think this will save you some time and effort and at the same time create an enhanced gaming experience.


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## perrinmiller (Sep 30, 2010)

Speaking up for HM; 
He and I have actually had this conversation through PMs already for another game.  He has the link for RPTools, but it is not so easy to just figure out on the fly.  I have tried GIMP too and it isn't easy either.  There are other methods easier actually, but still requires software he doesn't have.

I imagine if he actually had the jpeg files he could email them to me and I would have a decent tactical map up and running fairly quickly.  That's the same arrangement we have in another game.  So if you have them, HM, I can do the same thing, putting them into a grid and overlaying tokens over it.

If I have time later tonight I can try to create an Excel grid to match what he has put up already and share it through goggle Docs. 
----------------
Other issues:
Not arguing this encounter's start nor asking for anything to be changed.

But, I do have a question for clarification. How was Morrolan surprised?  Is it the nature of the encounter or does our SOP have something wrong?  Or was it not really surprise, but readied actions? (Based on these clarifications we might have some SOP revisions)

So for future door openings, Morrolan does NOT open doors and walk right in, ever.  If there are opponents on the other side, then he remains right where he is until his turn comes up in Initiative.  If the room looks empty, then Fafnir and the scouts do their thing. He doesn't enter a room to walk into ambushes and soak up a bunch of attacks. If there are opponents right on the other side of the door, he will keep them bottled up by making them come through the door to reach him instead.

------------------
Morrolan Initiative: Initiative (1d20+2=3)
Fafnir Initiative: Initiative (1d20+5=11)


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## Malachei (Sep 30, 2010)

HM, I am working with the GIMP and it took me 15 min to figure out how to do an easy map with tokens on it. The time-consuming task is creating or scanning the maps -- but we would have those already (see the link to WOTC). Scaling the maps and putting tokens on it is straightforward. That said, I don't want to push anybody here into using software they don't feel comfortable using -- I just wanted to point out that there are many tools you can use (I am also using tokentool from RP-Tools and it is really fast and easy-to-use -- you just drag the picture into the tool and resize it. When you are done, you save the token, and that's it). I think overall it would save you a lot of time.

Perrinmiller, if HM would be ok with sending you the maps, that is a good solution, as well (the maps in the WOTC seem to be a good start, because the text said they are non-keyed, so they would not be complete spoilers -- I have not looked closely at them, of course  )

I've attached a token for Aden.


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## Malachei (Sep 30, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> So for future door openings, Morrolan does NOT open doors and walk right in, ever.  If there are opponents on the other side, then he remains right where he is until his turn comes up in Initiative.  If the room looks empty, then Fafnir and the scouts do their thing. He doesn't enter a room to walk into ambushes and soak up a bunch of attacks. If there are opponents right on the other side of the door, he will keep them bottled up by making them come through the door to reach him instead.




I thought that was what the SOP implies: Aden looks for traps, opens locks and steps aside, with weapon in hand, to provide cover fire for the fighter opening the door -- that's it. I guess there is no need to charge / walk right in. I have no issues whatsoever with the encounter, and perhaps there have been some dice rolls by HM that we are not aware of -- I just wanted to point out the way I interpret the SOP.


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## Malachei (Sep 30, 2010)

Wonderful new map!


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## ghostcat (Sep 30, 2010)

Vertexx69. Thank for picking up Dargun's attempt at tunnelling. he may be a dwarf but that's no excuse. 

perrinmiller. Nice map.


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## HolyMan (Oct 2, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> [sblock=SOP]
> General Movement SOP (draft)
> 
> 1. The scout (Aden) goes first.
> ...




I also like the token style maps, like the way he took the picture of the lions and made them tokens. That wasn't an actual picture from the module but something I found and sort of looked like two lions being summoned out of nothing. One day I will master rptools and then watch out LOL.

Ok as to the quote it says the fighters enter the room after rogues have cleared it. And that is what I did. Are we now saying a fighter opens the door and if nothing jumps out at them they hang back while the rogues advance inside searching? Not all rooms are standard open door and see everything inside. As with this one I figured Morrolan would proceed to the corner and take a look around then wave everyone in from there. 

If you don't wish for me to use some leeway then we will have to go back to eveyone telling me everything you do and in pbp that will add years to the game.  

HM


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## Malachei (Oct 2, 2010)

I don't want to add years. I'd rather have you use leeway. That said, IMO, it is common sense to stay in the best tactical position -- of course, the tank needs to assess the situation in the room before deciding whether to enter or let the scout take the lead again. If he can assess the situation from the door, I guess most will do so. If he has to move, I guess there is no other way than to take a few steps.


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## perrinmiller (Oct 3, 2010)

I agree, no need to add years to the game.  I was asking for clarification on what exactly happened to analyze the SOP.  I think there is a little difference on what was meant by clear the the room. 

5. The fighers (tanks -- Morrolan, Platinus with Slash) will enter rooms first after the scout has cleared them

Probably my fault for not adding in more details for HM to work with. It isn't ambushes like the Lions I am worried about, it is the pit trap right on the inside of the doorway.

For the SOP:
Once Door is opened and by all appearances empty, whether the room is entirely visible or not, scouting recommences.  That means the scouts and Fafnir look for hidden enemies and traps.  Difference for a room versus corridor is that Morrolan will follow right behind in case there are hidden enemies.  If the room is entirely visible and no enemies visible, don't see a reason for Morrolan to enter at all. 

Also add in Fafnir to accompany Dargun on Scouting. (It eliminates Spot check failures and keeps everyone in communication with the scouts).

If opponents are visible, then SOP ends with either NPC interaction or Initiative rolls.


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## Malachei (Oct 6, 2010)

Looks good to me.


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## perrinmiller (Oct 7, 2010)

Updates for SOP on room searching sound good to me.


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## HolyMan (Oct 7, 2010)

Thank ye 

I'm thinking of putting the SOP somewhere in the RG for easy finding as when I am in control and you all are in SOP mode I will need your characters for secert DM stuff LOL.

HM


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## Malachei (Oct 16, 2010)

=> HM: Perhaps as a clarification: 

Talhia's dispel dispatches caster level up to 7th (not spell level 7), i.e. maximum spell level 4.

If we are talking about enervation (4th), vampiric touch (3rd) or something below, this will suffice, but not dispel anything more powerful.

In case the trap is spell level 4 or below, Aden's search and disable device checks would probably have been sufficient.


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## HolyMan (Oct 16, 2010)

Search did succeed but I don't think it possible for you to get rid of a spell casted on a door. I'm not to sure on that I just went with the disable they had for the trap listed - DC30 and figured your 28 didn't make it so  figured Aden saw the trap and figured there'd be no way to disarm it since there was nothing physical there to "pick" at with his tools. 

Trying to keep it realistic which is hard with the RAW of D&D. 

HM

_


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## Malachei (Oct 16, 2010)

I don't mind this, HM, you're the DM, and it's your ruling. If my check was not good enough, that is fine with me.

But of course rogues can disable magic traps, including runes / glyphs etc. on doors. It's one of their prime uses of disable device at higher levels. See the SRD, for instance:



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Rogues (and other characters with the trapfinding class feature) can disarm magic traps. A magic trap generally has a DC of 25 + the spell level of the magic used to create it.
> 
> The spells fire trap, glyph of warding, symbol, and teleportation circle also create traps that a rogue can disarm with a successful Disable Device check. Spike growth and spike stones, however, create magic traps against which Disable Device checks do not succeed. See the individual spell descriptions for details.




You'll also note the DMG has disable device DCs for magic traps. 

Again, no issues with this specific situation, but I want to make sure I can use my class-features to full extent.

I wrote my first post mainly because of the possible misunderstanding of the dispel check (7th caster level, not 7th spell level). Thus, I was actually expecting the dispel check to fail:

I had expected a higher level spell, because my Search was 30 and my Disable Device 36 (see my post, the 28 you are referring to was actually the _Listen_ check).


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## HolyMan (Oct 20, 2010)

Well looks like we are at a majority for leaving the room. I will advance the thread WED nite (EST) unless someone wants to do something different.

HM


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## HolyMan (Oct 25, 2010)

Sorry for the slight delay this "room" has thrown me off a little bit. It is more like an irregular sized like hallway.

To help speed things we have the SOP and for this type of area (and there will be alot in the underdark) I need to know who would be on watch and who would be starting to search areas already cleared of traps.

Or do you even search is a good question. You are looking for the drow and of course they are not set up in th ecurrent room so do we just continue on?

What I would like is after I give a description of a room - normally quoted out of the book from the "read this to players" box. I would like everyone to at least post something to let me know they are ready. Even if it is an OOC stating Following SOP or searching the south wall. At least I will know you are ready to continue. I know this trumps a little of the SOP but I don't want to advance without giving people a chances to respond to what is in the area.

Right now just need jkason and Hella_Tellha to post up their actions, thoughts, or an OOC to continue and we will be set. Thanks.

HM

_


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## Vertexx69 (Oct 25, 2010)

*Platinus: Celestial Fleshraker, Druid Warshaper*

wrong channel


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## jkason (Oct 25, 2010)

Sorry, thought I'd posted, but I must have closed out before submitting or I'm just a bit loopy. Possibly both.

In any case, moving on is fine with me. Unless we see signs of the drow, I'd say Talhia's generally fine with deferring to the scouts. If they say we're clear, we're clear, and she'll keep moving toward the objective after them.


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## HolyMan (Nov 2, 2010)

24 hour bump for Hella_Tellha and then I will be advancing the thread.

HM

_


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## perrinmiller (Nov 2, 2010)

HM;
Are you able to handle the map now or do you still need to figure something out?  I was considering to convert what I have so far into RPTools.  It might look better.

In any case, I might not be able to update our map tomorrow as it is a national holiday here and will have less available time.


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## HolyMan (Nov 2, 2010)

NP on the update and I am still not up to speed with maptools just not alot of time to watch the videos and try it and all. I will just use the last map posted and list everyones location from what they have posted. I shouldnlt need locations for a day or two as the first round will be repostioning and everyone seeting themselves up for the fight.

HM

_


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## perrinmiller (Nov 2, 2010)

HM; I might actually have time to convert the map tonight.  It didn't take too long for my Saltmarsh game and I already have the tokens done for this.  If I get it done, I will email it to you.


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## perrinmiller (Nov 2, 2010)

Scratch the conversion.  The source map is just not precise enough.  Trying to adjust a grid over the jpeg looked crappy since I could not get it to line up.  The original map's grids are not 100% evenly spaced.


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## Malachei (Nov 2, 2010)

Although they seem pretty low resolution, I think the current maps work great as is. They are a huge improvement, and really help in tactics, so I'm fine with what we have right now. Besides, although more limited than GIMP, Maptool can, apart from online gaming, be a great platform to edit maps -- it is really great and straightforward to work with -- also in terms of adjusting grids to maps.


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## HolyMan (Nov 3, 2010)

Uodating complete please remember that we are in a surprise round and only post one action for your character, unless you wish to do a bunch of free ones. 

HM

_


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## Malachei (Nov 4, 2010)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Can a creature charge during the surprise round? It would seem really stupid if they couldn't. Leaping pounce is through the air and therefore bends the standard charge rules in a couple of ways.




As per rules, yes, a creature can charge in a surprise round:



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> You must move before your attack, not after. You must move at least 10 feet (2 squares) and may move up to double your speed directly toward the designated opponent.
> 
> You must have a clear path toward the opponent, and nothing can hinder your movement (such as difficult terrain or obstacles). Here’s what it means to have a clear path. First, you must move to the closest space from which you can attack the opponent. (If this space is occupied or otherwise blocked, you can’t charge.) Second, if any line from your starting space to the ending space passes through a square that blocks movement, slows movement, or contains a creature (even an ally), you can’t charge. (Helpless creatures don’t stop a charge.) If you don’t have line of sight to the opponent at the start of your turn, you can’t charge that opponent. You can’t take a 5-foot step in the same round as a charge.
> 
> ...


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## HolyMan (Nov 4, 2010)

True you can charge as a standard action instead of a full you just don't get to move double your speed.

HM

_


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## joeye (Nov 4, 2010)

This is a good game and i am also playing this game and i just suggest it to my friends.


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## Malachei (Nov 4, 2010)

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> I recommend Aden attack the strand while we focus on killing the thing quickly. The magical darkness will not help as it already grabbed Dargun and can stuff him into the maw without worrying about the concealment. The darkness will mean we have 50% chance to miss trying to sever the strand




The initiative order means all of you will have their turn before mine -- that means, the blacklight will actually turn up _after everyone_ has acted and _right before the roper's next turn_ -- I see that as an advantage, because this means

a) all of our strong people attack (charge the roper or attack the strand)

b) the roper might not be able to target Dargun with more strands (I'm not sure if he can attack one person with multiple strands, but just imagine him launching several more attacks against Dargun -- this could mean Dargun is paralyzed, because of the Str loss). 

and c) the roper probably cannot target all others, as he is in the darkness and cannot pinpoint their location. Or at least suffers the miss chance.

I agree that after the roper's next turn, the party suffers from the miss chance, as well -- Unless everyone *delays* until Aden has moved a bit or thrown the pellet. That would be an easy solution to the issue, and everyone would still act before the roper. I'm not sure what is best for Dargun, who faces the hard challenge here. Which is why Aden asked Dargun if he wants to fight in light or darkness.

I actually thought a monk's best way to deal with this would be through the escape artist skill. 

Especially as he is grappled with Strength damage, grappling might not be the best option, and I'm not sure doing damage to the strand will be enough -- Aden has no clue how strong a strand is, but he is sure that he is not the right person to cut strands. His low strength also means he needs total concealment against the roper, so the creature cannot target him (or we'd have two guys in strands). 

Aden thinks that hit was pretty heavy, and therefore is not sure whether Dargun wants to retreat -- on the roper's next turn, he will have a full attack against Dargun, me, possibly others (and he will probably hit) -- so instead of casting improved invisibility, I cast blacklight -- the effect is mobile, so Dargun could move out of the effect (if he can move via escape artist), or I could move the effect, so Dargun is not in it, or I could throw the pellet somewhere. 

With a standard action, I see no better way to get a defense up that also helps Dargun.


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## ghostcat (Nov 5, 2010)

Malachei: Gargun's _Escape Artist_ is +1 untrained, so I reckon that he has a better chance at sunder, even with a strength penalty. However, I am open to suggestions. HM permitting.

As far as the darkness is concerned go ahead. As long has you can leave Dargun out of it. IC I suggest that you tell Dargun to wait until the darkness moves.


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## HolyMan (Nov 5, 2010)

Note: Nowhere in the roper write up does it say that the roper and target are grappling. You are latched onto and can use Escape Artist DC23 or a DC 19 strength check to break free.

Attacking the strand also is possible it says we make opposed sunder rolls (-4 for the roper) and if you succeed the strand has 10hp. I'm guessing someoone else can attempt that also.

HM

_


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## Malachei (Nov 5, 2010)

@ HM: Aden is not good at melee, much less at sundering, so I figured he won't be much help here. 

@ ghostcat: In my last post, Aden asks Dargun if he prefers having his dessert in light or darkness.


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## HolyMan (Nov 5, 2010)

Malachei said:


> @ HM: Aden is not good at melee, much less at sundering, so I figured he won't be much help here.
> 
> @ ghostcat: In my last post, Aden asks Dargun if he prefers having his dessert in light or darkness.




I just saw your 8 STR (best not to be touched by a strand, ) and...

"having" or "being" dessert LOL one your talking to the roper the other to Dargun.

HM

_


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## ghostcat (Nov 5, 2010)

Malachei said:


> @ ghostcat: In my last post, Aden asks Dargun if he prefers having his dessert in light or darkness.




Can you leave him out of the darkness please.

HM.

I have decided thatI don't understand the sunder rules. The way I understand it is I roll d20+4 (for two handed weapon) and roper rolls d20-4. If my roll beats his I do damage. Question is, do you add bonuses (magic weapon, BAB) and penalties (STR, Non weapon proficiencies)? Alternatively can Dargun just do a normal attack?


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## HolyMan (Nov 5, 2010)

Sunder is an attack roll so all bonuses/penalities apply. i.e. BAB, STR, magic etc. (you get a bonus to that based off your weapon type)

Since you are not grappled you may attack normally, as the only reason you would attack the strand is to stop the "drag" ability as the roper pulls you towards him. But in this case you are already in melee.

HM

_


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## Malachei (Nov 5, 2010)

ghostcat said:


> Can you leave him out of the darkness please.




Yes: your action this round is before Aden anyway. So if you delay your action next round after Aden's, I can move and get the darkness away from you.


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## HolyMan (Nov 15, 2010)

48 hour bump will advance this along come TUE night. 

@ perrinmiller do you need help figuring out the map since you have no key?

HM
_


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## perrinmiller (Nov 15, 2010)

Hmm, not sure.  I do see some stuff that would be in the next chamber.  It looks like a blue wall and then there is some sink holes or something and a shaded area farther along.  And I haven't even looked at next map yet.

If I need to cover up stuff let me know, here or in a PM.


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## perrinmiller (Nov 19, 2010)

I have family in from out of town starting tomorrow so my posting will be short and not too frequent as I won't have enough computer time to keep. I should be recovered and back to normal by 30 Nov, I hope.


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## HolyMan (Nov 19, 2010)

Np have a great Holiday, 

HM
_


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## Malachei (Nov 19, 2010)

Have fun with your family!

@ HM: As asked in my IC post... so is this a surprise round or a standard combat round? 
Will you sum up order of initiative once everybody has rolled? You could also roll for all of us, probably saves a lot of time.


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## HolyMan (Nov 19, 2010)

It will be a standard round and once everyone posts an init I will make a combat block with everyone listed in init order.

I usually give everyone 48 hrs to get rolls in and such, after that I will roll for them. And I'm sure of the speed of this game yet but everyone should at least be able to post once a week (barring holidays ).

The post was to let you know that Aden was spot as the creature comes moving menacingly towards you.

HM
_


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## perrinmiller (Nov 25, 2010)

Sorry guys, I will not be able to update today or tomorrow. Mainly because I need to do the map before I can figure out what to do with Morrolan, if anything

Happy Thanksgiving.


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## HolyMan (Nov 25, 2010)

NP I was figuring a slow down for the next couple days.

Enjoy your holiday umm... can you find turkey in Tokyo???

HM


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## Malachei (Nov 30, 2010)

So, when will we be moving on? And whose turn is it?


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## HolyMan (Nov 30, 2010)

Upate tonight I have to roll for all the wolves and Behilith's and all. You may take your turn though if you wish. And you can change it should whatever I post changes what you intended though I think "Shoot the monster," will just be "Shoot the monster."

HM


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## Malachei (Nov 30, 2010)

Is that a new round? It would maybe help to post order of initiative again.

In the first round of this combat, Aden was webbed, hence his action to move out, using Escape Artist (full-round action).


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## perrinmiller (Nov 30, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Enjoy your holiday umm... can you find turkey in Tokyo???
> 
> HM



Actually, Herzog and my folks visited and it was good.  No turkey in Japan though.  The Japanese don't eat it, not sure you can even find it in the supermarkets outside the US military installations.


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## HolyMan (Dec 1, 2010)

Well all this combat is being put on hold as I am going to be gone for a few weeks. Explained here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/297614-hm-rolled-1-save.html 

Wish we were in down time instead of combat but it should be ok.

Happy gaming see you all soon

HM


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## perrinmiller (Dec 1, 2010)

Works for me as I will be pretty busy until after New Years.  BTW, updating the map maybe not be possible until January as I will be stateside over the holidays.


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## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

Am back but will wait to advance this thread till after the holidays. As combat is slow and posting around the holidays is slow.

Two slows make a .... I don't know but it is really slow whatever it is they make.

HM


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## Malachei (Dec 21, 2010)

No problem, HM, hope you are well and everything turned out fine.


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## HolyMan (Dec 21, 2010)

Yes everything is great again thanks.

Just have alot of reading to do and I hate reading on a computer - sure hope my daughters don't get me a Kindle like I think they are planning to do. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Dec 25, 2010)

Well no Kindle (thankfully) they did get me Amazon gift cards though that is awesome.

And a my Christmas present to all of you is an update. Enjoy.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Dec 25, 2010)

Hehe you finally going to invest in a Magic Item Compendium?


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## HolyMan (Dec 25, 2010)

No sorry it is not on my list, 

I am thinking that after all my 3.5 stuff going on is finished, I will become a pathfinder only guy.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Dec 26, 2010)

The MIC is completely usable in pathfinder with just a couple cleric items that don't transfer well. I was thinking of sending you my hard copy since all my books are PDF'd now, but if you're not going to be playing 3.5 anymore then I won't have to bother.


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## HolyMan (Dec 26, 2010)

It's the thought that counts. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Dec 27, 2010)

Ok I have searched but I can't find a refrence to the ability leaping pounce. So if you would be so kind Vertexx69 to list it for me.

If you need to charge to attack the bebiliths that would be impossible and if you get to "jump" over them than that also would be rather tough as the ceiling is around 12-15 feet from the floor.

Some areas (coming up) will not be so cramped but right now you are in tight quarters to go leaping about.

HM


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## Malachei (Dec 27, 2010)

HM, after the pause, would you mind posting the initiative order again?


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## Vertexx69 (Dec 27, 2010)

Leaping pounce is a an ability unique to fleshrakers in MM3. Here's it copied strait from the book-

_*Leaping Pounce (Ex):* When a fleshraker charges, it leaps high into the air above its prey, attempting to knock it to the ground. This ability functions much like the pounce special attack. However, a fleshraker’s incredible jumping ability makes its leaping pounce particularly deadly.
When a fleshraker charges a foe, it can make a full attack, including one rake attack. If a fleshraker successfully hits and damages a target of its size or smaller that it pounces on during a charge, it can make a free trip attack without provoking attacks of opportunity. If the fleshraker wins the opposed trip check, it can make an immediate grapple check. If it succeeds, the opponent is considered grappled and pinned *on the ground beneath the fleshraker**. On each subsequent round, the fleshraker can deal automatic claw and rake damage with a successful grapple check against a pinned opponent. If a fleshraker fails the opposed trip check, it cannot be tripped in return. If it successfully trips its opponent but fails the subsequent grapple check, the opponent is still prone *in the fleshraker’s square**, but it is not grappled or pinned._

***_these phrases give me the impression that the standard charge rules of: (stopping in the closest square from which you can attack) don't apply to this extraordinary ability, since they jump on top of their targets._

It was more for flavor anything else as both Slash and Platinus have a 10ft reach and can move at least 2 squares to get their charges in and attack over the top of the worgs. They still hit with all 14 attacks even if I don't get the flanking bonus.

 I was picturing it as a large natural cavern that the carved tunnel was attached to with high stallactite riddled ceilings, to accommodate 2 huge sized creatures. In the future if you wouldn't mind letting us know the height of the rooms where we have encounters, it would be much appreciated.


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## HolyMan (Dec 28, 2010)

Hey Malachei the combat block has all the combatants posted in INIT order. It is the worgs turn I believe and I will go for them next as they need 20's and a confirmed crit to do any damage to the bebiliths.

at Vertexx69 - do you wish to change your actions since you will not be able to use leaping pounce in this part of the dungeon? 

HM
_


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## perrinmiller (Dec 28, 2010)

I cannot update the tactical grid until we resolve the fleshraker's actions.  BTW, are you using your free time during this slowdown of the holidays to learn how to take over the mapping stuff, HM? 

However, with Vertexx69's explanation OOC, I fail to see the point of updating and posting combat actions if he is doing 300 points of damage even on a regular charge attacking past the worgs with his 10 feet reach.  Are the bad guys going to survive or what?

BTW, I want to amend the marching order and SOP.  Morrolan can take up the rear and the fleshrakers can lead the way.  They appear to be much more capable of filling my role in the party anyway.


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## Malachei (Dec 28, 2010)

perrinmiller said:


> However, with Vertexx69's explanation OOC, I fail to see the point of updating and posting combat actions if he is doing 300 points of damage even on a regular charge
> 
> BTW, I want to amend the marching order and SOP.  Morrolan can take up the rear and the fleshrakers can lead the way.  They appear to be much more capable of filling my role in the party anyway.




I totally agree it does not make sense to even make maps, if the enemy is down after one round of combat. And of course, if it is, then some players may feel their characters are pretty useless. Of course, a DM can always turn up the volume, but that's not what I mean. Especially in a Play-by-post, people try advanced optimization levels, and in-party power levels are often unbalanced as a result. That's why some games call for a specific tier-level or a "low" or "moderate" level of optimization -- but, of course, this is then subject to interpretation, as well.


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## HolyMan (Dec 28, 2010)

I am looking at weem made maps at the moment. But if you still want the actual map of the actual area than no I am not ready for that.

If they step up and fight over the worgs they only get one attack each so I doubt the bebiliths will be dead. And I think Vertexx69 wanted them to be in the back so they could do their charge.

Which will be negated once we reach the underdark. There is no charging allowed in the underdark. 

So we will still be in combat perhaps until the fleshrakers get to take a full round action.

HM


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## Malachei (Dec 28, 2010)

HM said:
			
		

> There is no charging allowed in the underdark.




Why would charging not be allowed in the underdark. Is there a huge sign "No charging!" 

Well, if the terrain is rough, they could still jump if the ceiling allows -- or enhance their move (by whatever means) to cover the terrain.


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## HolyMan (Dec 28, 2010)

It is a rule from Forgotten Realms Underdark. 

Due to the uneven floor, rubble, and stalagmites there is really no way to get the straight line shot needed to charge. Now you can charge "in doors" but then I'm guessing for the fleshrakers the ceiling would be to low.

I'm sure there will be spots where the leaping pounce ability will come into play, just saying it won't be used every combat. (You all left the room with the ghost - bet it wouldn't have worked there.  )

HM
_


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## Malachei (Dec 28, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> It is a rule from Forgotten Realms Underdark.
> 
> Due to the uneven floor, rubble, and stalagmites there is really no way to get the straight line shot needed to charge. Now you can charge "in doors" but then I'm guessing for the fleshrakers the ceiling would be to low.
> 
> ...




It would be very interesting to read the rule to find its possible impact on my own campaign -- could you tell me where in the Underdark book it can be found?


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## Vertexx69 (Dec 28, 2010)

Thats' a fairly major optional house rule you forgot to put in the character creation guidelines there HM. It's easily sidestepped however by adding this item to my gear:[sblock=BOOTS OF THE MOUNTAIN KING]1,500 gp These boots allow you to ignore increased movement costs and skill check DC increases for light and dense rubble. In addition, you can move up stairs and slopes at normal speed and run or charge downhill without making a Balance check (DMG 89). These boots require no activation. Prerequisites: Craft Wondrous Item, freedom of movement. Cost to Create: 750 gp, 60 XP, 2 days.[/sblock]Which I would have done if I'd known about it. If you would have said no charging it would have at the very least changed my actions from the last round, where I wouldn't have set up for a charge and instead closed into melee range.

So how about instead of a high jump over them, I have the worgs move through the bebiliths taking AoOs as you see fit and then use the jump rolls to negate the uneven terrain to charge strait up to them instead?


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## HolyMan (Dec 28, 2010)

Not a house rule and it doesn't apply to the area you are in now. The problem now is height. 
The bebiliths are huge and the ceiling is only at max 15ft. so getting above them is quite impossible.

I dug out the Forgotten Realms book and didn't find it there, but found it in the CotSQ module. It is in reference to the underdark so goofed thinking that was where I saw it. The boots you can start making later. You have craft wondrous item right?

In CotSQ when you enter the underdark areas (pretty much everything after the crypts) there will be two types. Inhabited and Uninhabited

Inhabited areas have been roughly cleared but the ground is still a little uneven, with large rocks and stalactites around on the floor. Stalagmites on the ceiling (another reason leaping would not be advisable). Balance checks DC10 to run or charge.

Uninhabited areas area rough cavrens that will have lots of stalactites and stalagmites. Areas that may need to be climbed or even have to go spelunking at times. In these areas there is no running or charging allowed.

So like I said the ability won't be wasted but will also not be usable every time.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Dec 29, 2010)

So...

We are still waiting on the fleshrakers' actions to be resolved, correct?  Since he cannot leaping pounce, isn't he allowed to charge normally?  He already said the damage was the same for either attack.

No problem on the map, for this section.  I just might take me more time to reply some days.


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## HolyMan (Dec 29, 2010)

It's ok perrinmiller if a map skips a round or so I'm glad for the time you have taken so far.

The damage should not be the same as the fleshrakers won't get to full attack or the extra rakes from pouncing. And the bebiliths will get AoO's before they strike. 

So yes we will wait for a clarification to make sure, but I would plan that the demons will still be there.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Dec 29, 2010)

then yes I'll be changing my entire action...and I'm not happy with this module based house rule...

if you wouldn't mind reading ahead to let us know if there are any other inconsistencies in the module vs the rest of the D&D universe I know I'd honestly appreciate it.

I'm mostly upset because the dice hate me 99% of the time and I absolutely have never hit with every attack before. to have it just wiped away by something as lame as that after the fact really sticks in my craw.

Would you agree that rolling in the 40s on a skill check would let a character precisely control how that skill is executed? for instance calculating a jump between stalactites (on ceiling) and stalagmites (on ground) to cover a charge distance (which is between 10ft and 120ft for my characters) or not? Just for my own info?


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## Malachei (Dec 29, 2010)

Vertexx69, you are running a build that dishes out 300 damage and are complaining if there's rough terrain bringing you to a, well, more traditional level of damage output?


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## HolyMan (Dec 29, 2010)

Updating complete I think

Not I have listed the worgs locations so I think the two dinos are now in front of the bebiliths but with space in between because of reach.

Sorry Vertexx69 but it is a part of the game that is to throw the players for a loop. And not because they can't charge (who usually builds a character based around charging) but on the odd combat loctaions that will take place.

I can't wait till you are all on the side of a cliff (looking at a 600' drop) clinging to a giant web and facing... well you will see. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Jan 1, 2011)

Time to address a few game play changes I wish to make.

First is posting time during combat. I have seen where DM's have stated that they will wait a few days for a post before saying a character is delaying. It looks like a good way to keep combat flowing, so I will implement it in most of my games starting with this one.

Since this is a medium speed game (I think) I will say everyone has 4 days after I post up a recap to get their actions posted. It should be enough time and if you think you can't for an upcoming round go ahead and post some upcoming alternate actions I could use. If you post nothing then you will be delaying till you re-post.

Second will be Knowledge(Monster) checks or any check that you can resolve yourself. Everyone playing I'm sure is familiar with the rules enough to know if a check succeeds or fails on you. Unless you need a DC from me you can go ahead and post the actions success or failure. One of the things I enjoy most is reading your action posts. 

So with monster checks which I think will be a big part of this game (alot of monsters). You can figure the DC out from the MM and roll. Then if you succeed take and add up all the SA and SQ's for that creature and roll randomly for which ability(ies) you remember or if you fail post up that.

Example the Bebilith's the DC is 22 and if you succeed they have 8 SAs and SQs altogether. You would roll a d8 and find the ability by going in order. 

So if you rolled a 1 your character would know about the poison, or if you rolled a 5 they would know it has darkvision.

Those without a MM can use the srd. 

Going to re-post this at the beginning of this thread for easier reference.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 2, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> First is posting time during combat. I have seen where DM's have stated that they will wait a few days for a post before saying a character is delaying. It looks like a good way to keep combat flowing, so I will implement it in most of my games starting with this one.
> 
> Since this is a medium speed game (I think) I will say everyone has 4 days after I post up a recap to get their actions posted. It should be enough time and if you think you can't for an upcoming round go ahead and post some upcoming alternate actions I could use. If you post nothing then you will be delaying till you re-post.



HM, I tried that method and I still shutdown my game here at EnWorld after being dissatisfied with player participation.

I think we should try using group initiatives.  Something that I actually prefer in PbP games to accommodate everyone's time schedules and time zones.  Then we don't need to wait for others to post in order if everyone has the same Initiative among the heroes and the DM just resolves in posted order unless stated otherwise in the player's post. 

Then if a player is silent for 3-4 days, *NPC* them and update the round.  Personally, if there is no communication from a player for an absence longer than 3 days, they have no right to complain if you moved on without them. 

I actually converted all my games to that method and for the most part  my players are happier with it.  We are getting 2-3 rounds of combat  done in a week compared to taking a week or longer for 1 round.  

Funny, Aldern Foxglove and I discussed it, and he is the only person I have played with that was against it.  But then he updates multiple times per day and expects his players to post in 24 hours or less so combats are moving along pretty well for him.

The business of delaying after 4 days is actually not going to speed things along and those of us still playing are penalized for that character's inactivity.

I would hope people could agree to post in an established timely manner (3 days for medium pace?) or at least communicate that they are going to be absent, so this game doesn't stall out waiting on people.


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## Malachei (Jan 2, 2011)

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> i think we should try using group initiatives.




yes !


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## HolyMan (Jan 2, 2011)

It's just something to try. You know not sure till you try. And was keep vague enough to be used in other games and systems. Until we use it I'm not sure how it will work out, so if it doesn't we could go group init and try it also.

Different ways will work with different games/gamers and until I get things worked out we might end up trying a few different ways for this I am sure.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 3, 2011)

I still think you should NPC someone instead of delay.  It penalizes everyone when they have their turn delayed past a bad guy, and that isn't fair to the rest of us.  Why must we be punished for their inconsideration?  It's not like we can do anything about it.

And yes, I do mean inconsideration.  Anyone who leaves a game hanging for 3-4 days is either uncaring enough to drop a quick message or has a RL issue preventing them from playing so move on without them.


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## Malachei (Jan 3, 2011)

I also don't like the idea too much. In many fights, it won't matter (as our dinosaurs will stampede everything, anyway, so we might as well delay all of us ), but when the party faces a serious challenge, one or two characters delaying might mean winning or losing a fight. NPCing the character is a better choice, IMO -- and group initiative would be good, so it does not matter if who is first can actually post first (otherwise, there will be some editing).


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## HolyMan (Jan 4, 2011)

I think that the main reason I wish to use the delay action is if I NPC'ed a character I might go and use spells or limited items that that player was saving for something else.

If this were a lower lvl game than I probably won't have to much trouble or worry over this. Also if we had been playing for a while and I knew the characters and their tactics a little better, that would also play in. 

So agian we will give this optional rule a go. And it may be best if everyone just post up a if A happens I will do B next time if they feel they won't make the next deadline.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 4, 2011)

So who has disappeared already, that this discussion is going on for so long?


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## HolyMan (Jan 4, 2011)

Does that mean you have no preference Vertexx69? I don't see your take on it.

Was still waiting on you, jkason, and ghostcat to give me an "ok got it" post.

HM


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## jkason (Jan 4, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> And yes, I do mean inconsideration.  Anyone who leaves a game hanging for 3-4 days is either uncaring enough to drop a quick message or has a RL issue preventing them from playing so move on without them.




I certainly feel bad for being trapped offline for longer than I anticipated, but by the time I knew I wouldn't be able to get back on the boards, I didn't actually have an option of posting a message. 



HolyMan said:


> I think that the main reason I wish to use the delay action is if I NPC'ed a character I might go and use spells or limited items that that player was saving for something else.




You can always rule that if you have to NPC someone, you'll just make a basic attack (ranged or melee depending on where the character was when the player last checked in). Seems like a decent compromise between delaying (taking no action) and burning valuable resources if you're afraid the player may be saving them. Or, I suppose part of our SOP could be to give you a standard attack for NPC'd scenarios. 

Okay. Going to catch up on the IC thread now...


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## ghostcat (Jan 5, 2011)

I'm not too bothered one way or the other. Although I would prefer NPC'ing the character if possible. That said, jkason's idea about having a SOP for a character's "absent" actions seems to be a good idea.


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 5, 2011)

It's your world and I'm just careening through it  But I prefer post order to waiting 4 days before delaying an action. If/then works for those that disappear without notice for more than 2 days.


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## Malachei (Jan 6, 2011)

HM, I sorry, but I am not happy with how the game is going. I've built a character with an extensive background, but the whole adventure feels more like a random encounter. Actually, a somewhat boring random encounter, because our party is unbalanced, and our most powerful PC is able to take the enemy on his own. And apart from some in-party interaction in the beginning, there is little beyond mechanical combat-crunch-posts (of course, this is our responsibility as players, as well). I guess all of us can read a few handbooks and build an ueber combattant, but I'm actually here for storytelling aspects of the game, and I'm too fond of Aden as a character to spend him in a game that appears to have a lot of rollplaying, instead of roleplaying.


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## HolyMan (Jan 6, 2011)

Sorry to hear it but you may have something there. The game is combat heavy for sure. And the RP part is mostly with drow - which would not be good for Aden with his background - as you find out what is going on.

If you think Vertexx69's character is to powerful remember that a) everyone of the attacks hit that one time(which is rare), and b) Leaping is not much use indoors.

HM


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 6, 2011)

@ Malachei - keep in mind the slowdown from the holidays, and that I'm trying to get us through the combats as quickly as I can, to give us more roleplaying opportunities


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## perrinmiller (Jan 7, 2011)

Actually this issue goes back to before the holidays and had nothing to do with posting frequency per se.

I too was not real excited about an appearance of unbalance, particularly since I felt my build concept got nerfed.  When I pitched it, I thought I would get some cooperation on the design or the gear.  But that picture pretty much shackled me into something that is not what I would have done in a leveling up process. 

So even after compromising my plans, the problem is worsen by the gear assigned.  I didn't want the tower shield, unenchanted breastplate armor and a scimitar as my primary weapon. First chance my character would have had was to commission enchanted mithral platemail and get rid of that breastplate. 

Just looking at the mechanics of the build, my character sucks as a tank.  he is too slow to get to or stay in the front line and his secondary weapons all suck since I had wasn't allowed any money for even masterwork quality gear to be flexible.  And with an AC of only 24, he isn't too excited about getting to the front-line to begin with.  

So before we even started into the adventure I was wishing I had been allowed to play my sorceress idea instead. So I can freely admit I was jealous of Vertexx69's freedom to build what he wanted.  But at this point it doesn't bother me as much as just general dissatification with my own character build now that I have seen how the party fights in practice.

As for RP, this adventure is a dungeon crawl right now. So, it is what it is.


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## Malachei (Jan 7, 2011)

@ perrinmiller: I don't think that if HM would have allowed your items you'd be any happier, because then you'd not have an excuse left for paling against the dino stampede. 

Also, IMO, there can be wonderful roleplay even in a dungeon crawl. One of the decisions a group of players takes is where to focus. If the posts would focus on the party, instead of the dungeon rooms and the combat mechanics, the whole game feel would be entirely different. In the "come on, let's get rolling" atmosphere this game had (probably a sense of urgency, perhaps because of the long campaign), roleplaying efforts quickly vanished.

@ HM: IMO, one of the responsibilities as a DM is party balance. There might be the rare altruist, who does not care, but most players want a fair share of the action. I'm not sure, but I guess you did not have a close look at the submitted characters in comparison. Even for Aden, who, as a caster, does not compete directly with the dinos' damage, this is an issue (why cast a spell or try a sneak attack at all?) -- but for Dargun and Morrolan, it means the dinos take their role, and they feel pretty useless. 

As I said, this does not require much creativity. All of us can google "fighter's handbook", have a look at the CO boards and create a decent charger build in short time -- having built the most powerful character in a party is nothing to be proud of. But both as a player and a DM, I prefer games that do not require or even reward an "arms race".

@ Vertexx69: What's actually a surprise to me, is that you don't seem to have any issue at all with the fact that your build makes the other front-line fighters mere bystanders.


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 8, 2011)

This is the 1st time I've ever played a druid (in 15 years of D&D), and with a beguiler, an arcivist and a duskblade I figured we needed some real firepower against encounters that we couldn't talk our way out of. 

I chose my build expecting large scale battles, in huge underground caverns, against armies of monstrous spiders and drow, instead of a trickle of critters in cramped passages. But its only the 2nd encounter, a mere couple hundred yards into the underdark. HM was talking about being 30-40 miles underground so I think there will be plenty of opportunities for all kinds of fun to be had by everyone. And the picture looked to me like everyone else can cast spells and/or attack from range.

I've been in many mid lvl games where I was left in the dust by focused casters who could do 10X the things I could, reducing my fighter to a moving wall-o-meat to keep them from dying from a single hit. Being competitive damage wise was a concern of mine, and the optimization is to offset my dice rolling which you will soon find out is truly horrid. So if you can get passed the shock of a good round of combat, I'm sure everyone can get along just fine.


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## HolyMan (Jan 8, 2011)

I am almost glad Vertexx69's character can dish out some punishment. It will help vs. big monsters and not be as effect vs multiply combatants, or while hanging from a cliff. So that's why I'm not to worried everyone will get there share in this adventure. And the filler combats we will get through faster.

When jkason said that perhaps making a beguiler for a dungeon delve was ill thought out I didn't worry. I know those skills will be handy.

 btw does Talhia speak giant?? 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 8, 2011)

[MENTION=38657]Malachei[/MENTION];  No, I have really thought about this over the holiday slow-down.  I am not jealous of the fleshrakers themselves.  I was (not anymore) jealous of the fact Vertexx69 was allowed the freedom to make such a build while I had to compromise my intentions and didn't get the any of the gear I requested nor enough cash to purchase secondary masterwork items so I didn't have stick with that big shield and scimitar.

Until I saw the full potential of the fleshraker's damage I had no idea.  I was just looking at their AC, HP and DR and realized my melee guy sucks in comparison for the tanking roll.  That is my problem since I tried to fill that role in the party and it was a mistake.  At 10th level, he just feels too fragile.

Now that is mostly my fault, I joined the game with the desire to play a Duskblade/Dragon Disciple.  It looked good on paper.  But melee fighters in general are all about their gear, that is what makes or breaks a fighter and their feats are designed to use it.  Pretty much every other class is more focused on their special abilities.  And Duskblades are really just fighters that trade feats for some spells to augment their martial prowess instead.  And fighter archtypes generally go two ways, tanks or mobility.  Medium armor is bad for either concept, period.  Duskblades work best with two handed reach weapons, so you can see why those three pieces of gear (breastplate, heavy shield, and scimitar) really don't fit.

But if we had been adventuring for awhile before starting this current dungeon, my character would have acquired gear to complement his fighting style or developed a fighting style around his powerful magical items. Instead, what I have is a substandard melee fighter and I cannot get excited about playing him in combat.  And that has nothing to do with the DMing nor Vertexx69's character.  

So, yes changing the gear would make a huge difference to me.  Also, I  have no problem playing a more support melee combatant that can  compliment and work with our two dinos.  I actually have an 8th level Cleric/Fighter/Stormlord build  that was in a game that closed down a few months ago. But he is a  fighter type too and would need different gear than what Morrolan  currently has.

@HM; I think the Char Gen idea was a novel one and it encouraged a way to keep down powergaming.  And I suspected a few weeks ago that when you look at our total party's combat power, we need the fleshraker's to survive.  But when you look at that picture, those adventurers actually look like a bunch of pikers. Not a single suit of platemail armor and not one of them looks like an experienced adventurer in their outfitting.

Perhaps others are not so unhappy about their characters, but that is probably because their concepts and their items are not as critical to their roles in the party.  

I suppose after thinking about it, if have to stick with those three items, it would be much better to build a character that could actually use them effectively, though it would be sad to take Fafnir out of the picture.

Since player interaction is pretty much non-existent, the tactical  aspects of the game would be my other enjoyment. One or the other would  hold my interest, but right now I have satisfaction from neither and  that is my biggest problem with this game.  If it weren't for the fact  that I committed to do the mapping, I would probably exit stage left  alongside Malachei. Scratch that, I would have left 2-3 months ago  actually, since I was not happy about that Swashbuckler game getting dropped. 

So we are down one player, haven't heard from Renard's player in I don't know how long, we going to do anything about it?  Or are we just going to continue on as is?


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## HolyMan (Jan 8, 2011)

I decided to run a game for all of you to play. You in turn as a group should have decided on party roles and such. I was excited to run this game as it adds dungeon delving with some RPing with monstrous NPC's on top of a mystery. 

It may not be right for pbp though. Around the table if we played one  session a week for four hours each you would be farther along than you  are. Past all the hack and slash and getting into the other aspects. 

As players you should accept any rulings I make (like equipment) and roll with them. As the DM I should reward the fact that you have played along and in the future make changes to suit you. (i.e. finding the gear you actually wanted - but don't think you would have found it in the fourth room of a mega dungeon). I chose a new way to do things because just giving players X amount of gp leads to them purchasing exactly the same things there other 4 or 5 characters have in other games. Plus they usually don't have anything related to the adventure. 

The shield is my best example. First it was in the picture so of course you were going to get one, and should have figured it into your character via feats or a fighting style. Second there is no cleric in the group so I gave it the command undead ability to help later (much later - like the end) in the adventure. But like I said in pbp that would have been a long long time, so perhaps not grand.

Vertexx69's charatcer got approved for the great concept write up. The character wasn't in the picture but the story was a good one so I let the character join. There was no picture and I was busy so when I was asked to let the player purchase magical items I agreed. The stipulation was that they would get their regular starting wealth only (while everyone else was way above) as I figured that would be fair. 

You need not keep mapping for this game btw. The maps are for your benefit not mine. I would use the way I do maps just fine, it was you that wished for better ones. And if I were mapping we would have skipped this filler encounter that has absolutely nothing to do with the adventure. 

So where do we go from here. No clue I am running the game and it is up for you all as a group to decide if you wish to continue as is or if it would be better for a change.

Ball's in the groups court I will continue to run the game for those who wish to play. But please don't keep things the same if you aren't having fun, that isn't what I want.

Note: I am sorry about the Swashbuckler game if it were here at ENWorld I would have been able to keep it going. Just not enough time to be site jumping.

HM


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## Malachei (Jan 8, 2011)

@ perrinmiller: what I meant regarding the balance was not so different from what you described. But my main issue is with roleplaying. A play-by-post is a long-term commitment. It should be fun and I should be impatiently awaiting the next post. Currently, it is more of a burden. The mechanical issues do not help to counterbalance, of course.


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## Malachei (Jan 14, 2011)

It was not my intention to cause this game to stop. 

I said I'm not happy with the way it has developed, and that I might want to find a good exit for my character (unless we find a way to change things, in which case I'd be happy to stay).

But I'm not jumping the ship when it is not in the harbor. In the interest of those who wish to continue, let us finish the encounter and then find a solution.

@ HM: I agree that this game has a hard time working as play-by-post. Nonetheless, it is possible to make it work, IMO, but it takes more effort from everybody involved (including you).

I liked the picture a lot, and it could have served as a great starting point for roleplaying and teambuilding. 

I think the first issue for me is that, from what I have seen, there are only two people with a roleplaying focus. These will be disappointed even if combat is balanced. The way we entered the adventure felt rushed to me.

The second issue is the party balance. That can be helped in many ways.

I'm not sure whether I want to play this in the long run, but IMO, we should at least finish the encounter.


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## jkason (Jan 14, 2011)

Malachei said:


> I think the first issue for me is that, from what I have seen, there are only two people with a roleplaying focus. These will be disappointed even if combat is balanced. The way we entered the adventure felt rushed to me.




I'll apologize here for not really pulling my weight. I usually try to do a fair amout of character-building. I think some of it is my general inexperience with mid-level play. I think the highest level character I've managed prior to this was around 5th level, and I'd built him up over a long game rather than building him from scratch, so I knew who he was and what he could do fairly well. Probably doesn't help that not only is this a more advanced level, but I chose a class with which I wasn't especially familiar. So I find myself suffering from a lot of option overload, and I'm often digging around my sheet and sources to figure out what Talhia can or can't do and then wind up rushing together a crunchy post rather than putting effort into the prose.


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## Malachei (Jan 14, 2011)

jkason said:


> I'll apologize here for not really pulling my weight. I usually try to do a fair amout of character-building. I think some of it is my general inexperience with mid-level play. I think the highest level character I've managed prior to this was around 5th level, and I'd built him up over a long game rather than building him from scratch, so I knew who he was and what he could do fairly well. Probably doesn't help that not only is this a more advanced level, but I chose a class with which I wasn't especially familiar. So I find myself suffering from a lot of option overload, and I'm often digging around my sheet and sources to figure out what Talhia can or can't do and then wind up rushing together a crunchy post rather than putting effort into the prose.




Actually, this was not meant as criticism -- some people's focus is just different. Playing for the crunch is perfectly fine, and most real life gaming groups have a healthy mix of players. It is just that with dungeon crawling crunch only, I am missing something.

Regarding your character, yes, spontaneous casters with full spell list access require a lot of knowledge. I perfectly understand that you spend some time just evaluating your options. Although at high levels, there are some advantages to the beguiler: I'm playing a high-level killer gnome beguiler, and I loved not having to select a spell list in the character development process. I'm currently building a wizard at caster level 19 (or, to be exact, an arcane dweomerkeeper), and it takes a lot of time to create the spell book.


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 14, 2011)

Woof high level casters can get super complicated, kudos for undertaking it. I played an epic level cleric once and it was insane. But wizards do get amazingly deadly after lvl 1o or so with just a couple of the right items. I am a fan of the metamagic staff of maximize with the empowered spellshard to do 90+ dmg with fire balls


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## Malachei (Jan 14, 2011)

Vertexx69 said:


> Woof high level casters can get super complicated, kudos for undertaking it. I played an epic level cleric once and it was insane. But wizards do get amazingly deadly after lvl 1o or so with just a couple of the right items. I am a fan of the metamagic staff of maximize with the empowered spellshard to do 90+ dmg with fire balls




Well, I've played a MU to level 36 and a wizard well into epic levels, so I feel right at home. However, creating them from scratch is a lot of work in a small amount of time.


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## perrinmiller (Jan 15, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> So where do we go from here. No clue I am running the game and it is up for you all as a group to decide if you wish to continue as is or if it would be better for a change.
> 
> Ball's in the groups court I will continue to run the game for those who wish to play. But please don't keep things the same if you aren't having fun, that isn't what I want.



We so far only a few people have commented about things since HM posted this.  If I were to retcon my character to match my gear, I might continue.  But HM did not answer my PM, so I am not sure if that will be allowed.  Perhaps he is waiting to see what comes out of this discussion.  

But with Malachei probably not changing his mind, and only two others even deigning to chime in, I don't think the player interaction or speed of progress is going to match my interest in the long run.  It's a long campaign and we have only managed to make it though a few rooms and 3 encounters after over 3 months.  At that pace we will be a half a year RL before things would get interesting.  

I am finding that I prefer PF anyway and higher level games are difficult and more time consuming for all involved if you try to start there.  Without good chemistry to develop character interaction and banter, this game will pretty much stall out later anyway.  And I don't really think it is any one's fault.  Malachei just was the catalyst to the decision being made now rather than later if that's what is going to happen.

If we continue, there should be a meeting of minds regarding style and posting frequency among the players. So far I don't think they match and it only ends in frustration for most of the players and I think that is why we don't have more interest in this game as a group.

HM, mentioned a "change".  Perhaps some clarification on what that might mean in his mind will help with the decision.


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## Vertexx69 (Jan 16, 2011)

With the holidays over and done with, I'm back to checking these forums several times a day for thread progress. I want as many of the players as possible to be happy with the game, and would hate for this to end up being just another exercise in statistical math-terbation. That being said it is usually impossible for any given game to be all thing to all its players, but this one was described as a group of non-drow heading into the underdark to the "City of the Spider Queen" which is Lolth if you didn't know. Thinking it wasn't going to be combat heavy was just unfortunate.


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## ghostcat (Jan 16, 2011)

I haven't chipped in so far but I have been following what people have been saying. Personally I for one was enjoying the game.

As for the role-playing via roll-playing aspects. Although I enjoy role-playing, I had an idea that the adventure would be combat heavy before I signed up, so that doesn't particularly bother me.


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## HolyMan (Jan 17, 2011)

*Combat Heavy* is a mild statement. Let's see...

*Encounters missed:*
EL11 - Vampire and two vampire spawn
EL11 - summoned Dire Celestial Lions (not really missed but no combat anyway)
EL9 - ghost
EL6 - yellow mold
EL6 - animated statue

Encounters completed/current:
EL10 - Roper
EL11 - Bebiliths

*Encounters to go before part 1-A is over:*
EL10
EL12
EL11
EL8
EL6
EL10

That's like 12 combats and I had planned on playing about three or four. As most is filler to get your XP up. But I planned to give you all the XP (and work the treasure in somehow) for all the encounters to keep your lvl ups current with the module as you complete each part.

If perrinmiller wasn't doing the maps I would have bypassed this whole section of the dungeon, as it is not needed. But as a group it seems you wanted the easier to read maps so I went along with having to have your characters explore where ever it was you wish to go.

I will run the game, but I wish for all of you to decide if you really want to be in it. Changing equipment or builds is a little late, and more trouble than it's worth. The group is set, you need to take the crunch effect of each character (even those not your own), and use it for RP. Right now one character maybe shining, but I assure you there will be parts for everyone to showcase their talents. And if not I as the DM will make one for everyone of you.

HM


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## ghostcat (Jan 17, 2011)

As I said yesterday, I am happy to keep playing.


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## Malachei (Jan 18, 2011)

Vertexxx69 said:
			
		

> Thinking it wasn't going to be combat heavy was just unfortunate.




I expected a combat-heavy game. And I come all the way from 1st edition AD&D and BECMI -- now _that_ was combat-heavy.

However, I'm not doing play-by-post games for the mechanical exercise of testing character builds. I'm here for a good story (which can involve a lot of combat).

A combat-heavy game can still have lots of good roleplaying. And if there's no NPCs and story elements to address, a party can still roleplay among themselves. 




			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> If perrinmiller wasn't doing the maps I would have bypassed this whole section of the dungeon




I really don't understand why you have to run an encounter just because a player is doing the maps for you. 



			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> Right now one character maybe shining, but I assure you there will be parts for everyone to showcase their talents. And if not I as the DM will make one for everyone of you.




Are you saying you will push us to the level of Vertexxx69? Actually, just because one player has decided to create a fairly optimized build, does not imply we should lift everybody to the same optimization level. This may not be popular with the others, but actually, an official D&D adventure (even a challenging one) is not designed for builds like Platinus & Slash.

We're walking through encounters you had pre-warned us of as tough (and which also fit the CR appropriate to the party's level) without much of a challenge. I've seen a lot before, but killing a CR 12 roper in one action (!) with a single 10th level character (and animal companion) tells me we don't have a problem with equipment -- we have an issue with very different levels of optimization. I don't see a solution in fine-tuning the module to counter the powers of Platinus (such as making many areas non-charge and no-jump terrain), because this will only be frustrating for the player. 

So I'd say those who wish to go on do so. I'm willing to stay on board for the current encounter and then find an exit.


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## HolyMan (Jan 18, 2011)

So far I think only ghostcat, Vertexx69, and jkason are still in the game as is. If this is the case I will recruit one and continue after a replacement is found.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 19, 2011)

Not to gripe, but if you let me rebuild my character to match his gear I wound stay and save you the trouble of recruiting.  I am perfectly happy to continue with only four and I am sure a smaller group will generate more character interaction than a mob of six.

But Morrolan just doesn't do it for me as he is built, since gear reflects a fighter type's style and tactics.  I never minded tactical combat, it is just that I screwed up my build and my character feels as useless as nipples on a bull and that's supposed to be his role in the group.


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## HolyMan (Jan 19, 2011)

Sorry but if I let you rebuild than someone else will ask if they can change one little thing. Then another might just want a feat switch, so we end up waiting on everyone to change before continuing. Instead of continuing while someone works to join in later.

I think looking ahead that when there are multiply combatants you will have your time to shine, ghostcat's character too. I mean you will have your own opponent and everyone else would have theirs. 

But still up to you, like I have said I will run the game but people need to do their part too.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 19, 2011)

BTW, my hang-ups are not about being jealous or anything else.  It isn't about finding my place to shine either, as I said before I don't mind playing other types of characters or roles.  So I really don't think you get my point.  

The character build with it's combat style and the main gear assigned just don't match.  No one else can really make that claim.  It has nothing to do with power gaming or trying to keep up with the fleshrakers.  The combination of medium armor and scimitar is better suited for a mobility fighter to me and that's not what I made in Morrolan and the disparity is not fun, worse than playing a 1st level character (they at least can quickly acquire new equipment and grow into things).

But I get not wanting to set a precedent and holding the game up while everyone tweaks things (but frankly this game has been on hold for practically 2 months already, what's one more week to keep players happy). And with only three other players, just ask them if they need/want to change anything, if the answer's "no" then... 

If you let me do the change after this combat or at time shortly afterward to effectively swap guys out IC, I would stick with Morrolan until then.  Since he needs to have the assigned gear, I planned to change practically everything except gender, making a completely new character, even change the name if that fits.  I don't see it holding up anything nor being different than adding a replacement player. 

But if that's that. I am out then since playing Morrolan is not attractive for an extended time.


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## HolyMan (Jan 19, 2011)

Understood but remember the equipment came from the picture, and was made so as to be useful/powerful later on as going to the magic shop for an upgrade would not be possible.

During the adventure is when people would have gathered better equipment to add to this. Just started with the picture no need to keep it that way.

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 19, 2011)

I do remember what was said when I got the equipment, and my disatsfaction on the build goes back to then when not only was I getting the big shield, I was getting crappy armor and a scimitar because I failed to realize that because those were in the picture that's what I was getting. My fault. 

If you are telling me to suck it up hoping that I will find useful magic items to replace my armor and primary weapon down the road, pardon my lack of faith.  Once again they will likely not match and I will want to sell them too.

So, you would rather recruit someone else then?


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## HolyMan (Jan 19, 2011)

If you do not wish to continue and see what lies ahead I will. If you don't believe you will like the character after getting better armor or an item or two down the road then that is on you to call it quits.

I know that pbp is slow and it may seem like forever but I also know that the games potential is here. Just need to get past the dungeon crawling part and into the heart of it. 

HM


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## perrinmiller (Jan 20, 2011)

HM, maybe you are right that even changing things wouldn't make me happier in the long run.  Dunno.  

I thought about it overnight and decided, you can go ahead and write Morrolan & Fafnir out of it.  

I would have possibly tried to stick it out and trust you, but the other players haven't indicated they want me to stay either.  So that pretty much is a clear indicator to me that group dynamics for character interactions won't satisfy me to make up for it.  Some people enjoy paying with me and we RP like gangbusters and others don't care. 

So have fun guys and see you around.


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## Malachei (Jan 20, 2011)

perrinmiller said:


> HM, maybe you are right that even changing things wouldn't make me happier in the long run.  Dunno.
> 
> I thought about it overnight and decided, you can go ahead and write Morrolan & Fafnir out of it.
> 
> I would have possibly tried to stick it out and trust you, but the other players haven't indicated they want me to stay either.




I would, if I had stayed.


@ Everybody: Have fun, and all the best for the adventure. I'm sure there will be a lot of interest for alternates, as it is such a classic campaign.


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## jkason (Jan 21, 2011)

Is Hella_Tellah around anymore? Looks like his last post was back in November? Between that, Malechai and perrinmiller leaving, and now Dargun's death, maybe we really should consider shuttering this particular game?


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## HolyMan (Jan 22, 2011)

That is something I was considering as well. This is a great game just not great for pbp. I may need to go through it and edit it up change the mapping and then perhaps we would be alright, but as is.

It sucks that the game lost momentum to with my month long absence so that didn't help.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 3, 2011)

Ok everyone still subscribed... I am going to call this game closed.

The combat has been over for nearly two weeks and not one post so that seems dead enough to me.

HM


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## ghostcat (Feb 3, 2011)

Don't know about the game but Dargun is certainly dead.


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## HolyMan (Feb 3, 2011)

Yeah sorry about that ghostcat, I was hoping to RP going back to town to get him raised but... oh well I guess major dungeon crawls aren't for pbp. Live and learn.

HM


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## jkason (Feb 4, 2011)

Sorry it didn't work out. I liked the concept. I think I may just not be so great at the higher-level play. I get option-overload.  

Ah, well, live and learn, as you said.


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