# Animate Dead... Dragons?



## Robane (Jan 14, 2009)

I have some noob questions as, yes, I am a noob to DnD. I need some information on the Animate Dead spell. 

It says you can create up to two times your caster level in HD at any time, so at level 20 (I know that's very far off) that would be 40 HD right?

Now what if I tried to animate a dead dragon (around 37HD). Could i make either a skeleton or zombie? 

It says something about not being able to make one (skeleton or zombie) over 10 HD after removing racial dice and class levels, but how would this be calulated on a dragon, as they gain HD as they age?

Could this be possible with desecrate at an altar?

Sorry if any of this has been asked before, I haven't been able to find much info on this, and would appreciate any help.


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## Alzrius (Jan 14, 2009)

Robane said:


> I have some noob questions as, yes, I am a noob to DnD. I need some information on the Animate Dead spell.




So was everyone, once. Don't worry about it. 



> _It says you can create up to two times your caster level in HD at any time, so at level 20 (I know that's very far off) that would be 40 HD right?_




Right.



> _Now what if I tried to animate a dead dragon (around 37HD). Could i make either a skeleton or zombie?
> 
> It says something about not being able to make one (skeleton or zombie) over 10 HD after removing racial dice and class levels, but how would this be calulated on a dragon, as they gain HD as they age?_




You don't remove racial Hit Dice when calculating the Hit Dice limits of the skeleton and zombie templates; just those from class levels. The zombie template has some slightly-ambiguous language about not counting Hit Dice "gained from experience" but I think that's just redundant language referring to class levels. Given that, you can't apply the skeleton template to a creature with more than 20 natural Hit Dice, nor the zombie template to a creature with more than 10 natural Hit Dice, as the templates say.

I'd say that a dragon's Hit Dice at any given age category are all natural Hit Dice. They're gained with age, not experience points, and it also keeps things simpler. So, you wouldn't be able to use _animate dead_ on a 37 Hit Die creature of any sort.



> _Could this be possible with desecrate at an altar?_




No. That allows you to raise more Hit Dice of creatures in a single casting, but any given creature still can't exceed the HD limits of the skeleton and zombie templates.



> _Sorry if any of this has been asked before, I haven't been able to find much info on this, and would appreciate any help._




Don't worry about it. Asking questions is how you learn, and that's what this forum is for.


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## frankthedm (Jan 14, 2009)

Robane said:


> It says you can create up to two times your caster level in HD at any time, so at level 20 (I know that's very far off) that would be 40 HD right?



40 HD _of_ undead, but not _a_ 40HD undead. 

"If the creature has more than 20 Hit Dice, it can’t be made into a skeleton by the animate dead spell.

If the base creature has more than 10 Hit Dice (not counting those gained with experience), it can’t be made into a zombie with the animate dead spell."


Robane said:


> I Now what if I tried to animate a dead dragon (around 37HD). Could i make either a skeleton or zombie?



Not with the animated dead spell.


Robane said:


> It says something about not being able to make one (skeleton or zombie) over 10 HD after removing racial dice and class levels, but how would this be calulated on a dragon, as they gain HD as they age?



You either get a young dragon to animate or find a different way than animated dead. If a DM wants to throw a 37 HD skeleton at the players for them to fight, all the DM has to do is decide the stats and the CR. If a PC wants that 37 HD monster, the player is going to have to work something out with the DM.







Robane said:


> Could this be possible with desecrate at an altar?



Not with the 20HD cap.


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## Robane (Jan 14, 2009)

Thank you both for your help. You've both really helped to clear this up. Thanks for helping a noob!


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## frankthedm (Jan 14, 2009)

There _might_ be a few other options for draconic undead in the Draconomicon or Libris Mortis.



BTW There is no need to call yourself a noob around here. Enworld is a _very_ civil place were folks generally are not judged by their post count. But since you seem new around here, may i direct you to the following links from my signature? Printable counter sheets of video game critters ~ Making a mini storage bin ~ Advanced Monsters ~ Area of Effect Templates

and here are some other highly useful links.

The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) 
The Creature Catalog- Your #1 Source for 3E Converted Monsters
Crystal Keep - D&D and d20 System Indexes for a lot of 3.5 material  
Pogre's  painting miniatures guide.


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## freyar (Jan 14, 2009)

The Draconomicon does have the skeletal dragon and zombie dragon templates (these have a few draconic abilities on top of the usual skeleton and zombie abilities).  The template descriptions say that they can be created with animate dead, and they don't list any HD limits.  So my reading of this is that a 20th level spellcaster could animate a 37 HD skeletal or zombie dragon, but by RAW it should be using the Draconomicon templates.

(Thanks for the CC link, Frank! Glad to know our work there is appreciated.)


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## Shin Okada (Jan 14, 2009)

As freyar says.

And Skeletal Dragon template is actually one of the best you can use with Animate Dead spell. Skeletal Dragons retain BAB of the original dragon and some extraordinally special attacks such as Frightful Presence.

Zombie Dragon Template is basically weaker than Skeletal Dragon template for making a pure combat machine. But Zombie Dragons are much durable and can fly. They also retain breath weapons, much weakened version, though.


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## Corsair (Jan 14, 2009)

Urge to play a dragon slaying necromancer... rising...


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## Runestar (Jan 14, 2009)

Hydra skeletons can also be quite scary, if only because of all the attacks they can make (and it can be combined with a charge as well).


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## StreamOfTheSky (Jan 14, 2009)

How is the Skeleton Hydra pouncing now?  It should lose the ability to attack with all heads as a standard action as a skeleton.

Not that it's even important.  Spells to give the Skeleton Hydra its full 13 attacks (it gets a claw on top of the 12 heads, remember!) are cheap and plentiful.  Just use a familiar to get in close and Benign Transposition it with the Hydra.


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## Robane (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the help. I know an evil cleric who is going to have a lot of fun at later levels. Thank you for the links too, they are extremely helpful


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