# Now is the time for Enworld to expand into an untapped market!



## MichaelSomething (May 12, 2022)

So according to some people in this thread, the over 55 TTRPG crowd is not being catered to by WOTC.  That means a smart publisher can step in and dominate it!  Enworld's a smart publisher so why don't they???


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## Zaroden (May 12, 2022)

ENWorld is a publisher?

I was just told that this was a good forum for TTRPGs.

I mean, that's why I'm here, anyways.


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## Yora (May 12, 2022)

It's not like the market that aims at people who like RPGs from the 70s and 80s is completely empty. It's just that WotC has no interest in it.


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## Hussar (May 12, 2022)

I know I laughed at the OP, but, thinking about it, it's not actually such a far fetched idea.

What would it look like though?  In my mind, some of the biggest changes wouldn't be mechanical but physical.  I made the mistake of opening up my 3.5e PHB the other day and my eyes started to bleed from trying to read that tiny, tiny black text on a yellowy background.  So, I would think that actually aiming books at people who need reading glasses isn't a bad place to start.  Let's get up to 10 or 12 point non-serif fonts with high contrast so the older of us out here aren't going bloody blind trying to look up a rule.


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## AnotherGuy (May 12, 2022)

MichaelSomething said:


> So according to some people in this thread, the over 55 TTRPG crowd is not being catered to by WOTC.  That means a smart publisher can step in and dominate it!  Enworld's a smart publisher so why don't they???



Given that you have read that thread, what exactly are they not being catered for?
I'd just like to establish what this alleged untapped market desires.


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## John R Davis (May 12, 2022)

What do the over 55 crowd want?


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## Morrus (May 12, 2022)

I don't think the older crowd is an untapped market. The OSR is pretty big. But anyway, our product schedule is pretty much set in stone for the next year or two.


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## John R Davis (May 12, 2022)

I am weeks away from joining that crowd!!

If the untapped is OSR then there is bucketsful.

If the untapped are wanting to play 5e BUT not inline with current WOTC output, that might be a 'thing?'. I may well be in that Untapped* group.

*Though that is also a Beer drinking App where you log your drinking habits!


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## beancounter (May 12, 2022)

John R Davis said:


> I am weeks away from joining that crowd!!
> 
> If the untapped is OSR then there is bucketsful.
> 
> ...




You're not officially part of that crowd until you've received an unsolicited invitation from the AARP to become a member.


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## JarooAshstaff (May 12, 2022)

John R Davis said:


> What do the over 55 crowd want?



Their youth back.


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## Snarf Zagyg (May 12, 2022)

MichaelSomething said:


> So according to some people in this thread, the over 55 TTRPG crowd is not being catered to by WOTC.  That means a smart publisher can step in and dominate it!  Enworld's a smart publisher so why don't they???




_....I appreciated the attempt._

This seems like the appropriate time to market my _Logan's Run_ TTPRG. With an AARP discount.


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## ART! (May 12, 2022)

beancounter said:


> You're not officially part of that crowd until you've received an unsolicited invitation from the AARP to become a member.



I'm holding off on joining because I already have a car trunk grocery organizer and lots of tote bags.


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## John R Davis (May 12, 2022)

From the UK so had to look it up 
Thought it meant Alcoholics Anonymous Role Players!


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## dragoner (May 12, 2022)

Turning 55 this year and ... I am not compelled.


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## John R Davis (May 12, 2022)

dragoner said:


> Turning 55 this year and ... I am not compelled.



Give it a year!!


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## Retreater (May 12, 2022)

AARPG?


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## Professor Murder (May 12, 2022)

Is it a market worth pursing though? As a 47 year old gamer with near 40 years in the hobby, my tastes are pretty diverse, but the "older gamer" who is grousing for content aimed at their specific niche tastes, are there enough of them to justify pushing past all the demands and complaints to get them to buy new product? Isn't Drivethru and DMSGuild already serving this frankly small subset of the market by making old content available? I know this feels like a slam but I mean it as an honest observation. We are talking about catering to people who remained with the hobby in some capacity since the 70/80s or are in a place where they could be lured back. Are there enough hypothetical customers to bother?


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## JarooAshstaff (May 12, 2022)

Professor Murder said:


> Is it a market worth pursing though? As a 47 year old gamer with near 40 years in the hobby, my tastes are pretty diverse, but the "older gamer" who is grousing for content aimed at their specific niche tastes, are there enough of them to justify pushing past all the demands and complaints to get them to buy new product?



I doubt many 60yo D&D grandpas are looking for new games for themselves.  
But maybe they are buying for grandkids.


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## Mallus (May 12, 2022)

Snarf Zagyg said:


> _....I appreciated the attempt._
> 
> This seems like the appropriate time to market my _Logan's Run_ TTPRG. With an AARP discount.



“Carousel begins! Roll initiative.”
”Twenty!”
”Natural?”
”No.”
”Okay the big laser crystal goes first, hits, and you take 100 damage.”


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## Retreater (May 12, 2022)

If I were going to make an actual real suggestion instead of the typical snarky comment I usually do, I think there is a market that (to my knowledge) is relatively untapped - at least by the major producers of the game. And that market would have crossover with new players, busy adults, and casual gamers. It's something I frequently complain about on here in the way WotC produces their adventures.
I'd like a product line with well-organized, shorter adventures with easy-to-parse details and streamlined encounters. Something akin to what Necrotic Gnome does with their OSE adventures. Compared to those, the adventures WotC makes are stuck with the design and layout of the early 2000s - huge blocks of text, mountains of read-aloud text, incessant page-flipping to get to stats you need. 
There was a push in the end of 3.5 to break-up the format of official adventures (I remember Ravenloft was done this way) and in 4e to break into "encounter zones" and include stats in the relevant sections. 
If a DM buys your product, it should save them time. You shouldn't have to spend nearly as much time prepping the purchased adventure as you would writing your own.


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## JarooAshstaff (May 12, 2022)

Retreater said:


> I'd like a product line with well-organized, shorter adventures with easy-to-parse details and streamlined encounters.



I agree, however there are a million adventures on dms guild, any of which you can prep for 5e.  I don' think one needs to wait for WOTC to produce more.


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## Morrus (May 12, 2022)

Retreater said:


> If I were going to make an actual real suggestion instead of the typical snarky comment I usually do, I think there is a market that (to my knowledge) is relatively untapped - at least by the major producers of the game. And that market would have crossover with new players, busy adults, and casual gamers. It's something I frequently complain about on here in the way WotC produces their adventures.
> I'd like a product line with well-organized, shorter adventures with easy-to-parse details and streamlined encounters. Something akin to what Necrotic Gnome does with their OSE adventures. Compared to those, the adventures WotC makes are stuck with the design and layout of the early 2000s - huge blocks of text, mountains of read-aloud text, incessant page-flipping to get to stats you need.
> There was a push in the end of 3.5 to break-up the format of official adventures (I remember Ravenloft was done this way) and in 4e to break into "encounter zones" and include stats in the relevant sections.
> If a DM buys your product, it should save them time. You shouldn't have to spend nearly as much time prepping the purchased adventure as you would writing your own.



All of this exists. And if you look beyond D&D, it _really_ exists. Rather than WotC do that I’d rather see smaller publishers get a lift.


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## Professor Murder (May 12, 2022)

Morrus said:


> All of this exists. And if you look beyond D&D, it _really_ exists. Rather than WotC do that I’d rather see smaller publishers get a lift.



Honestly, this is the heart of the issue. This isnt a demand for material. This is a demand for the spotlight.


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## Retreater (May 12, 2022)

Morrus said:


> All of this exists. And if you look beyond D&D, it _really_ exists. Rather than WotC do that I’d rather see smaller publishers get a lift.



I haven't found any 5e stuff that does it this way (maybe with the exception of one adventure that has been converted from OSE). All of the 3PP 5e stuff I've seen copies the same style from WotC - or even worse. 
Does anyone have examples of adventures that other companies are making that fit that description?


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## payn (May 12, 2022)

They need D20 _Mid-Century_ Modern!


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## South by Southwest (May 12, 2022)

Huh.

See, from the title I totally thought this thread was going to be about pineapple pizzas.

Never mind.


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## J.Quondam (May 12, 2022)

_*"Enjoy the complete 'Grandmother Rule' experience at... ENWorld-branded nursing homes!"*_


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## Snarf Zagyg (May 12, 2022)

South by Southwest said:


> Huh.
> 
> See, from the title I totally thought this thread was going to be about pineapple pizzas.
> 
> Never mind.




Coming soon from ENWorld Publishing ....

*Bard Up: The Complete Book of Lyres and Jokers.*


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## Zaroden (May 12, 2022)

John R Davis said:


> What do the over 55 crowd want?



They're kinda a big demographic.

While they have similarities, they're going to be hard to take into account, especially when it comes to tabletop RPGs.

Correct me if I'm wrong.


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## BookTenTiger (May 12, 2022)

EN World should start planning a D&D themed retirement community!


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## Jer (May 12, 2022)

John R Davis said:


> What do the over 55 crowd want?



If I look at my friends in that cohort, they're playing 5e with their grandkids and are using Wizards material to do it, so they seem to be covered actually.

(Snark aside - I think aiming at age demographics is a fools errand here - aiming at play experiences is a better approach.  The OSR folks are definitely aiming at older style play experiences and those products cross age demographics.  I've had discussions with 20 year olds who love OSR stuff but my 50 year old friends wouldn't play a campaign in an edition published before 4e if you paid them at this point.  Trying to lump the over 55 crowd into a monolithic target audience doesn't seem like a good idea to me.)


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## Blue (May 12, 2022)

beancounter said:


> You're not officially part of that crowd until you've received an unsolicited invitation from the AARP to become a member.



AARP sent me an unsolicited invitation to become a member when I hit 50.  It's not an exclusive club.


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## MichaelSomething (May 12, 2022)

John R Davis said:


> What do the over 55 crowd want?



I was hoping we could hash that out here in this thread...

Art direction and writing tone seems to be a pattern in demand...


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## John R Davis (May 12, 2022)

MichaelSomething said:


> I was hoping we could hash that out here in this thread...
> 
> Art direction and writing tone seems to be a pattern in demand...



Oh ok.
-Art. Absolutely. The new stuff from WOTC hurts my eyes. Tone the colours down, so they are mostly B&W.

-Less Anthropomorphism. Every sentient thing shouldn't be a pc race.

-Maps. Less busy. Almost like Dyson logos but not quite.

-Snappier box text.

All this brings a 128 page book down to 60 or so. Much more likely to give it a go.


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