# Mac or PC?



## Verys Arkon (Dec 8, 2008)

Simple question, born out of curiosity and this thread.  

Which do you use (note: not which do you think is superior)?


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## Ktulu (Dec 8, 2008)

I've always used PC.  My dad began his career as a programmer in the early 90's and I spent much of my time on the various systems we had.  Only used Mac's in high school.


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## Fallen Seraph (Dec 8, 2008)

*Pats my Acer Laptop* PC for me, has served me quite well.


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## Charwoman Gene (Dec 8, 2008)

Use PC currently switching to mac on my next machine


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 8, 2008)

Verys Arkon said:


> Simple question, born out of curiosity and this thread.
> 
> Which do you use (note: not which do you think is superior)?




Why can I not choose _both_? I own a PC and a Macbook Pro. At work I am using only PC, at home I am using both (PC mostly for surfing and gaming, MacBook for RPG writing and as my "media player")


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## jdrakeh (Dec 8, 2008)

I really like the Mac's 'ease of use' factor, but until a Mac can give me the versatility of a PC with regard to hardware customization, I'll never own one.


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## mhacdebhandia (Dec 8, 2008)

I like computer games, so I've always used a PC. After something like fifteen years using "IBM-compatible" machines, I find the Mac interface really awkward and annoying when I have to hop on the one we have at work. I don't see myself switching ever.


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## Knightfall (Dec 8, 2008)

OT poll! 

I voted PC.


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## Scribble (Dec 8, 2008)

PC...

I like building my own computers piece by piece.


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## WhatGravitas (Dec 8, 2008)

PC - I'm a tinkerer, on-off programmer and occasional gamer.

Cheers, LT.


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## Maggan (Dec 8, 2008)

I take it you're really asking "Windows or Mac OS?" ... 

I voted Other. I use Windows, Mac OS and Linux on the PCs I have at work.

Most often Mac OS.

/M


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## El Mahdi (Dec 8, 2008)

I voted *PC*, but I so wanted to vote *Other* so I could say I use an Abacus.


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## Agamon (Dec 8, 2008)

I have a desktop PC, but I plan on upgrading my laptop to a Macbook next year.


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## Thanee (Dec 8, 2008)

Player Character. Macs are so unimaginative. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Verys Arkon (Dec 8, 2008)

Knightfall1972 said:


> OT poll!
> 
> I voted PC.




Yes, I guess the pool is a little off-topic without some background.  It was triggered by the debate in the OP link about WotC's choice to support PC only with its suite of DDI Tools, specifically the character builder beta.  

All kinds of stats were thrown around, about how big the Mac userbase was, and suspicions that the RPG community was more likely to regularly use Mac as their OS of choice than the general population would lead you to believe.

I intentionally made the poll singe choice only to force a selection.  Many people have access to both PC and Mac, but I was interested in which one they would choose, if they had to.


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## Knightfall (Dec 8, 2008)

Thanee said:


> Player Character. Macs are so unimaginative.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee



Heh. Good one.


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## Masquerade (Dec 8, 2008)

I own a six-year-old desktop running Windows and a one-year-old laptop running Mac OS X.  As I use the latter more, I voted Mac.


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## Shemeska (Dec 8, 2008)

*My other computer is a Modron*

Voted PC. I like to occasionally gut my system and upgrade hardware piece by piece.


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## Charwoman Gene (Dec 8, 2008)

*tinkly piano music in the background*

Two figures on a white background, portrayed by Justin Long (Mac) and John Hodgman (PC)

Mac is dressed in some jeans and shirt kins think as usual...

"Hello, I'm a Mac."

PC is dressed in fur boots, a steel breastplate, a horned helmet and carrying a huge axe.

"And I'm a PC"

"PC, what are you wearing?"

"Ah, I'm not a PC, as in personal computer, but PC as in player character.  I'm dressed up as "Morgnar" my 21st level Barbarian.  You see, one of the adavtages of PCs are the large number of specialized applications where they hired programmers to cheaply to program cross-platform, like the D&D Insider applications where I can spend hours working out the stats of Morgnar before we venture into the Dungeon of the Mad Witch-Lizard to rescue Princess Vethsreana."

"You didn't get laid much in high school, did you?"

*tinkly piano music in the background*

Mac.


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## GRStrayton (Dec 8, 2008)

Out of 9 players (between 2 groups), we have 3 people on PCs and 6 on Macs.


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 8, 2008)

Linix.


Just Kidding.  PC and yeah... 



Charwoman Gene said:


> Justin Long (Mac) and John Hodgman (PC)



I hate macs just because of that commercial.  Justin Long looks like the biggest douche bag on the planet and even if I liked macs I'd hate to be associated with him.  John Hodgmen, on the other hand  is a genius.


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## Charwoman Gene (Dec 8, 2008)

Relique du Madde said:


> John Hodgmen, on the other hand  is a genius.




and a Mac user.


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## El Mahdi (Dec 8, 2008)

Charwoman Gene said:


> and a Mac user.




I didn't know that until you said this (I looked him up on Wikipedia because of this).  That's Funny.  Ahhh, sweet Irony.


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## miscreationist (Dec 8, 2008)

Voted other.  Linux desktop user for many years.


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## Remus Lupin (Dec 8, 2008)

Charwoman Gene said:


> *tinkly piano music in the background*
> 
> Two figures on a white background, portrayed by Justin Long (Mac) and John Hodgman (PC)
> 
> ...




Now this could potentially get me to switch back.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 8, 2008)

Verys Arkon said:


> Simple question, born out of curiosity and this thread.
> 
> Which do you use (note: not which do you think is superior)?






Verys Arkon said:


> I intentionally made the poll singe choice only to force a selection.  Many people have access to both PC and Mac, but I was interested in which one they would choose, if they had to.




So, you DO want us to say which we think is superior?  Well, regardless, the answer to both what I use and find superior is both PC/Windows.



Charwoman Gene said:


> "You didn't get laid much in high school, did you?"




High School is only four years.  Nerds do quite well later on in life.

Also, because I HATE those commercials, obligatory reply: Ctrl+Alt+Del


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## Shroomy (Dec 9, 2008)

Shroomy, former Mac user.  Bought a $500 PC laptop and I love it so much more than my previous $1200 iMac.


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## Simplicity (Dec 9, 2008)

I use a PC because I enjoy gaming and the occasional multi-button mouse.
But I will readily admit that Windows Vista is teh suck.


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## Aus_Snow (Dec 9, 2008)

PC hardware, with whatever OS suits the current purpose. Vista? Just no.

Sure, I've used Macs (I had to, at Uni) but well. . . not impressed, let's just say.


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## Tharkun (Dec 9, 2008)

I'd only buy a PC because I want to play games and use Linux.


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## TwinBahamut (Dec 9, 2008)

I use a Mac. I just like them better, probably because they are easier to use and more reliable for me. I don't play games on the computer, either (that is what consoles are for, after all), so that angle is unimportant to me.


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## FATDRAGONGAMES (Dec 9, 2008)

We use Macs in the FDG office.


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## Slider Wade (Dec 9, 2008)

Both. I have a simple PC for all my non-video editing needs and a Mac for my video-editing needs.


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## Steve Jung (Dec 9, 2008)

Intel iMac here at home. Some sort of PC at work.


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## ssampier (Dec 9, 2008)

PC. I use Windows XP at home, laptop and desktop. I am considering a Linux netbook. I use Red Hat Linux and Debian at work, but I never use the GUI.


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## Dumnbunny (Dec 9, 2008)

Simplicity said:


> I use a PC because I enjoy gaming and the occasional multi-button mouse.



Macs support multi-button mice. You can buy pretty much any USB or Bluetooth mouse off the shelf and use it with a Mac.


Tharkun said:


> I'd only buy a PC because I want to play games and use Linux.



To play games on one of my Macs I boot into Windows XP using Bootcamp, which works quite well. I'm able to play LotRO and Warhammer with the graphics maxed out. And with VMWare Fusion, I'm able to run Windows sessions within OSX, as well as any Intel flavour of Linux. I have Ubuntu set up, as well as Arch Linux and OpenBSD. What's really cool is running all of these at the same time, including a couple Windows XP sessions. It makes testing a web application's cross-brower compatibility much easier.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 9, 2008)

I use both, but Mac is my workhorse.  I only use PC based machines if forced to...and I'm rarely forced to.

Given the way I use my machines, if Mac goes out of business in my lifetime, there will still be a several year lag between Mac going under and my buying a WinTel machine.

(For the record, of the 10+ gamers I hang out with, I'm the sole Mac user.)


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## TheLe (Dec 9, 2008)

I am a PC user exclusively.

That being said, there is plenty of room for PCs and MACs in this world. For the business world and gaming, the PC is the way to go. For style and ease of use, MACs are king.

It all comes down to preference.

That being said, Apple has done very well with its "I'm a Mac/PC" commercials for a while, but now it is starting to feel backlash. Those commercials ended up reinforcing elitist attitudes of mac users, making those core users very happy, but at the same time it's making the rest of us hate them for those same reasons.

I rather like Microsoft's answer (albeit very late) with their "I'm a PC" commercials. It makes people feel good about being a PC. 

~Le


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 9, 2008)

I use a PC at the moment (and have done for a couple of decades or so), although my next computer will be a Mac (for ease of developing websites and software for both the PC and the Mac world - it will give me a foot in both camps via bootcamp/parallels)

Cheers


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## StreamOfTheSky (Dec 9, 2008)

TheLe said:


> I rather like Microsoft's answer (albeit very late) with their "I'm a PC" commercials. It makes people feel good about being a PC.
> 
> ~Le




Much as I prefer PC, I have to be fair: I think those MS ads are dumb.  It was too late, and even if it did everything intended, all it ends up accomplishing is re-butting the other guy's ad.  In other words, they're completely defensive in nature, while Mac's ads stay on offense.

Also, I think Mac did a pretty good retort with the whole "advertising, advertising, advertising, fix Vista, advertising..." money allocation commercial.  Course, all the times those Mac ads air, they're clearly shelling a lot into advertising themselves, which kind of contradicts their whole attack.  I have absolutely no faith in the vast majority of TV viewers to think long enough to pick up on that paradox, though, so...well done, Apple.


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## Rackhir (Dec 9, 2008)

jdrakeh said:


> I really like the Mac's 'ease of use' factor, but until a Mac can give me the versatility of a PC with regard to hardware customization, I'll never own one.




Actually since the switch to the intel platform, you can build your own mac.

InsanelyMac Forum -> Buying Thoughts, Reviews, and Recommendations

You can't do it with the full range of PC hardware and it can involve a lot of work to make it work, but if you really like to pick your own components you can do it and I have done it.



jdrakeh said:


> I use a PC because I enjoy gaming and the occasional multi-button mouse.




You do realize macs have been shipping with multi button mice for several years now and you could always use multi-button mice with macs.


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## Angel Tarragon (Dec 10, 2008)

PC all the way.

This computer is my second an I'll be replacing it with an XPS 430 some time this or next month.


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2008)

Reveille, I don't know what exactly you plan to do with that computer, but I would seriously reconsider that choice or at least make dead sure that this has exactly what you want/need before putting down that much money (ok it also includes a TV, but still ).

Bye
Thanee


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## Angel Tarragon (Dec 10, 2008)

Thanee said:


> Reveille, I don't know what exactly you plan to do with that computer, but I would seriously reconsider that choice or at least make dead sure that this has exactly what you want/need before putting down that much money (ok it also includes a TV, but still ).
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Basically I want a computer that I can use to capture/edit video, burn bd-hd discs and basically have a system tha'll last me at least another 5-6 years.

Why, is there something I should know about it?


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## Thanee (Dec 10, 2008)

Reveille said:


> Basically I want a computer that I can use to capture/edit video, burn bd-hd discs and basically have a system tha'll last me at least another 5-6 years.
> 
> Why, is there something I should know about it?




Well, I don't know how much money you have lying around, it's just that this computer is fairly expensive. 

For video editing, I can understand some of the choices (i.e. the expensive CPU and lots of DDR3 RAM)... it just seems a bit weird to have such an expensive computer with only a moderate video card, for example (I'm not sure what video card is specifically useful for video editing, or if there is such a thing, though), or only a single hard disk (no RAID; isn't HDD access speed also an issue with video editing? And if you are writing/deleting a lot on the HDD, which I would expect, I would want to have a seperate one for that, and not use the same HDD that has the OS on it or your valuable personal files).

And I would generally question the use of 64bit Vista, though the advantage of having more RAM is surely tempting and probably useful for the video editing at least, since there might still be some incompatibility/driver issues with 64bit Vista, that might become quite a PITA, while currently it offers only a marginal advantage (only the bigger address space, so more RAM can be used; but for most applications 3-4GB are more than enough), since pretty much all software is still 32bit. BTW, is the OS the full price one or the way cheaper System Builder / OEM version? And why "only" Home Premium and not Ultimate? 

Also, is the motherboard you get in that computer specified? For that price it should better be among the best available on the market.

Then, McAffee isn't considered one of the best anti-malware solutions, AFAIK (it's no Norton, which should be considerd Malware by itself, but still). I don't know the price tags on some of the other extra services you selected, so it's hard to say anything specific... for example the 1 year online data storage sounds a bit weird to me (unless it's really cheap, like $10 or so)... can't you just get your own webspace and .htacess it for (way more) protected storage space and tons of other possibilities?

All in all, I wouldn't be surprised, if you could get a computer for half the price, that does everything you need, leaving you with another computer in three years for the remaining money, that is about twice as powerful as this one. 

Anyways, mostly I'm saying that, before you buy a computer with that price tag, you should really have considered your options and choices and thoroughly thought it through (which you could very well have done already, I cannot say that and am not implying that you did not ).

Bye
Thanee


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## ki11erDM (Dec 12, 2008)

Rackhir said:


> Actually since the switch to the intel platform, you can build your own mac.




If you are ever going to go Mac this would be the only way I would recommend it.  OSX is not a bad OS but the hardware is disproportionately bad in comparison to a standard PC build.

In the IT group I am helping run now we have just over a 1000 systems with about a quarter Apples and the rest Dells (with a few off brand PCs as well).   About 150 of them are laptops with the same distribution between Dells and Apples.  In the end of the year report we are compiling right now 52% of all hardware repairs were for the Apples.  Most were from overheated systems or flaky screens, 43% of the Apple laptops have been sent back to Apple for repairs at least once in the last 3 years.  Roughly 13% of the Dell laptops were repaired (on site) by Dell in the last 3 years.  None of that covers and battery recalls.

I don’t know what the hell they do when they put those things together but the quality control at Apple is miserable, and certainly not worth the 25% premium we have to pay for them.

Oh and the software issues we dealt with followed the breakdown of the systems almost perfectly 23% OSX, 51% XP/Vista and the rest Linux.

One thing that really gets my goat with Mac people is they seem to not blame Apple for a hardware defect.  They just throw it away and happily march off to buy another one.  If you are going to buy one at least pay for the warranty… you will use it.


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## PrecociousApprentice (Dec 13, 2008)

I started on a PC. I switched to a Linux box after Windows Me. I got a Mac two computers ago, and I have never regretted it. No problems ever. They just work.

As for the previous comment, my med school class has 200 people in it. It runs just over 50% Mac (we require laptops in the classroom). The only problems that I have heard of have been with IBM/Lenovo Thinkpads. Every one that started in our class has died with no possibility of resurection. This was about 30 PCs. Every one has been replaced with a Mac, and I have not heard any complaints from anyone about them.

That being said, the Macs do seem to get hot, but I haven't heard of any malfunctioning because of it.


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## The One Ring (Dec 13, 2008)

*4 pcs*

I've got four computers, all of them PCs.

One laptop for business use, one PC to be my firewall computer, one PC for online gaming and one PC as part of my entertainment center.


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## Mercule (Dec 13, 2008)

PC.  I've never actually seen OSX.  That's how far removed from Macs I am -- I don't even know anyone who knows someone who owns one.  Okay, I know one friend-of-a-friend who's a Mac enthusiast, but he lives halfway across the state.  I've heard good things about OSX, and would like to get a look at it, but I haven't been able to.

It's unlikely that I'd switch, given that I found the old (mid-1990s) Mac OS to be somewhat less fun to use than DOS and I can't believe they didn't retain anything, but you never know.


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## Merkuri (Dec 14, 2008)

PC here.  It's what I grew up on, and I enjoy computer games so I never really considered switching.

Plus I work for a Microsoft Gold Certified Partner company (partner of the year at least once), and if I were to be caught with any sort of Mac at work they'd lynch me.  I have to hide my iPod.  Heck, when I eat a Macintosh apple I get looked at funny.  (Okay, I'm exaggerating a little, but seriously the company I work for is very Microsoft-centric and I'd probably get made fun of at the least for owning a Mac.  My boss really did see me listening to my iPod on my way out of the office a few months ago and he not-so-subtly suggested that I try a Zune instead. )

My sister switched to Mac a while ago and loves it.  Like TheLe said, I think that different types of computers work well for different people.  Macs and PCs are each superior at different things.  (Don't tell my employer I said that! )


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## Zelc (Dec 14, 2008)

[ame=http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=KLiyglcRcCA]YouTube - Touhou Video #6: Get A Mac[/ame]
[sblock]I use a PC because it can stop time.[/sblock]


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## azhrei_fje (Dec 14, 2008)

Mercule said:


> [...]I've heard good things about OSX, and would like to get a look at it, but I haven't been able to.
> 
> It's unlikely that I'd switch, [...]



"I'm happy with what I use and I don't know anything else, so how could I ever be happier?"

I just love it... 

I'm not a huge fan of Apple or Macs, but I am a huge detractor for Windows.  Just about anything else is a step up, IMO.  Or two steps, in some cases.  My preferred OS is some version of a POSIX-compatible system; one that let's me run all the freeware that's available.  Linux has the greatest support right now, but I've used FreeBSD in the past.  I even had a box back in the 80's that run Unix System III.

Windows has gotten much better since XP came out, but there are still TOO MANY known bugs that MS refuses to fix.   How could I ever support a company that won't fix known security issues?  How could I ever base a company around products from such a vendor?  (This is one of the reasons why I'm not too hip on Apple either.  They do similar things with the Mac OS, although not quite to the same extent.)

Sorry, I'm rambling...


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## Mercule (Dec 14, 2008)

azhrei_fje said:


> "I'm happy with what I use and I don't know anything else, so how could I ever be happier?"



Wow.  That's a pretty insulting mischaracterization of what I said.

How about: I like what I use, but I'd like to see the alternative and give it a chance.  I just don't know where to find it.  I doubt I'd like it, because I found previous versions to be inferior to previous versions of what I'm using, but you never know.  Plus, I've heard good things about the current alternate, so I'm curious, at least.

Not as good of a self-serving sound-bite, but it has the benefit of being neither insulting or fraudulent.

In truth, I agree with Merkuri that each platform has user styles to which they cater.  For myself, I'm a professional programmer and have always found Windows to be a superior platform to code for compared to Mac (Unix might be better, but MS is more accessible).  Given that the two most marketable development skills are either Java or .NET and I really, really like C# and really, really dislike Java, it would be silly for me to use anything but a PC.

My eldest daughter, on the other hand, is pretty artistic and non-technical (my #2 seems to be the techie).  I could see Mac being better for her, if traditional roles hold until she is ready to be her own help desk (I'm not going to try to support an OS I'm unfamiliar with).


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## Orius (Dec 15, 2008)

Relique du Madde said:


> I hate macs just because of that commercial.  Justin Long looks like the biggest douche bag on the planet and even if I liked macs I'd hate to be associated with him.  John Hodgmen, on the other hand  is a genius.




I use PCs exclusively.  Apple's products always come off as overpriced yuppieware to me, so I have no desire to use any of it.  Those damn annoying Mac commercials don't improve my opinion either.  The one where PC says, "it's all Mac's fault" I did find funny, but not for the reason Apple intended.

 If I ever were to not use a PC, I'd go Linux box before I'd ever go Mac.



StreamOfTheSky said:


> Also, because I HATE those commercials, obligatory reply: Ctrl+Alt+Del




Thanks for that link.



ki11erDM said:


> One thing that really gets my goat with Mac people is they seem to not blame Apple for a hardware defect.  They just throw it away and happily march off to buy another one.  If you are going to buy one at least pay for the warranty… you will use it.




It's what I referred to some time back as the cult of Steve Jobs.  Some of those people who go out of their way to buy Apple seem to have a near religious fervor for their support of the company or something.


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## ssampier (Dec 15, 2008)

Zelc said:


> YouTube - Touhou Video #6: Get A Mac
> [sblock]I use a PC because it can stop time.[/sblock]




Uhhh, okaaaaaaaaaaay.


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## Aeolius (Dec 16, 2008)

My first computer was an Apple product (Apple II+), my current computer is an Apple product (Mac Pro, though there are 8 other Macs in the house also), and my last computer will be an Apple product.

Why? Simple, I stick with what I know. As a bonus, my Apple fanaticism truly seems to annoy some people. This brings me great joy.


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## Thanee (Dec 16, 2008)

Aha, so you are the one those ads are targeted at!  

Bye
Thanee


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 17, 2008)

Thanee said:


> Aha, so you are the one those ads are targeted at!
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Well, I enjoyed them. I still use a PC, and actually develop exclusively for Microsoft OSes. But I also have a Mac and an iPhone. It all works, and all has its drawbacks.


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## Rackhir (Dec 17, 2008)

Orius said:


> It's what I referred to some time back as the cult of Steve Jobs.  Some of those people who go out of their way to buy Apple seem to have a near religious fervor for their support of the company or something.




According to an Advertising Age article (FWIW), apparently emotionally powerful brands like Apple (and Harley Davidson, etc...) tend to activate the same areas of the brain that activate in devout christians exposed to faith-related triggers.

"Repent Sinner! Cast out DOS from your heart! Reject the works of the Gates!"

But that Apple has cult like aspects, is hardly something new or an original observation.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 17, 2008)

> One thing that really gets my goat with Mac people is they seem to not blame Apple for a hardware defect. They just throw it away and happily march off to buy another one. If you are going to buy one at least pay for the warranty… you will use it.




I've been using Apples- and now Macs- since 1985 or so.

I can count on 1 hand the number of technical difficulties I've had, and those resulted from human actions (IOW, abuse):

1) A guy liked the sound my Apple IIe made when rebooting, so when he visited me, he'd turn it on and off- rapidly.  This caused one drive to catch fire.

2) A young cousin of mine came over during a family gathering and was surfing around on my machine unsupervised.  He managed to- against all probability- somehow download a file that contained a virus that affected Macs.  I lost a lot of data and had to have some of it professionally recovered- that cost me $$$$.

That is *it.*

My Dad's 15 year old Apple laptop would still function if he could get a power cord for it.  Of course, its so old that about all he could do on it is play old games, but that's a different issue.

Now, I _have_ had some issues with peripherals.  I have a pair of removable media drives- an Imation superdisk and an original Iomega Zip- that no longer function properly, but they're about 10 years old.  I've also had a couple of keyboards malfunction- both non-Mac (I don't care for the ergonomics of the current Mac keyboards).  And I can't say I've been pleased with Mac compatible gaming peripherals, either, but 90% of those aren't made by Apple anyway.

In contrast, many of my PC using buddies are always talking about malfunctions and the like.  _However,_ I realize that they're also not typical users- almost all of them are programmers, so they're likely trying to push their equipment harder than the average user.


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## ki11erDM (Dec 17, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I can count on 1 hand the number of technical difficulties I've had, and those resulted from human actions (IOW, abuse):




See my issue with that is that I hear the very same arguments from the people here (at work). They say “but this Apple always works and I never have any issues with it!” and then I pull up the work logs and show them that the reality they live in is not the reality I work in. And then they go to the director and complain that we keep a work log.

And I want to make it clear that I don’t love any hardware vender to death or anything, they all have their own issues. But the free pass that Apple gets is just nuts.

[rant]
Oh and just because it happened again between this post an my last one I will bring this up, I have never had a company lie to me in the way Apple has.

Just over a year ago I sent a MBPro back to Apple because the system was crashing randomly (Spinning Beach Ball Of Death) . I had done a good bit of diagnostic work on the system and was reasonably sure it was the main board or the power management unit (the Apple phone support tech was in agreement with this assessment). They sent it back and said they had put in a new hard disk and reinstalled the OS and everything was fixed. Which was odd because I had booted the system off a known good HD with a clean OS and had still have the issue. So we started marking the components before we shipped them out with a black sharpie. 

This past week was the second time this year that they sent back a repaired system with a new main board but they claimed they only replaced the hard disk. Why? I just assume they want to be able to blame the HD manufacturer but it still gets my goat that they have lied to me about it at least twice.
[/rant]


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## Orius (Dec 19, 2008)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> In contrast, many of my PC using buddies are always talking about malfunctions and the like.  _However,_ I realize that they're also not typical users- almost all of them are programmers, so they're likely trying to push their equipment harder than the average user.




Hmm, interesting, I thought a lot of PC problems were caused by users how didn't know what they were doing, rather than people who know just enough to really screw things up.

Still, I've had few PC problems under XP, so I see little reason to jump on the anti-PC bandwagon so many seem to follow.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 19, 2008)

Orius said:


> Hmm, interesting, I thought a lot of PC problems were caused by users how didn't know what they were doing, rather than people who know just enough to really screw things up.
> 
> Still, I've had few PC problems under XP, so I see little reason to jump on the anti-PC bandwagon so many seem to follow.




Well, sometimes I am amazed what kind of troubles non-experts get themselves into that I never experienced. 

I remember we recently made a usability study on our software, and two of our newer guys got to watch the participants. They came back with the words: "I really didn't know our software is that hard too use!" 

These days, I have - for the first time in a very long time over many computers - hardware problems with my PC. It sucks.


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## Mercule (Dec 19, 2008)

Orius said:


> Hmm, interesting, I thought a lot of PC problems were caused by users how didn't know what they were doing, rather than people who know just enough to really screw things up.



It depends.  I'm a programmer and I like bright shinies (the two often go together).  So, I do things like try out a series of similar applications that don't play well, mess with configuration settings most users aren't aware of, and edit the registry.

I've had some pretty spectacular crashes, but it's in the name of learning something new.  Any more, I've got my "dev PC" and a "family PC" at home.  The family PC is stable and runs pretty well because I'm the only user with administrative permissions.  My dev PC needs a rebuild every 6 months or so.  But, I know that going into the deal, so it's not quite the same thing as what happens to novice users.


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## Steel_Wind (Dec 20, 2008)

PC. It's not really even in doubt.

When it comes to games, software, expense and upgrading, the PC is vastly more better served, with vastly more choices, cheaper and more accessible.  And yes, faster, too.

Apart from some highly technical niche applications (photo editing for use in print media being one of them - and even then...) there really is no rational basis for choosing a Mac.

That said, these discussions are generally not based on rational criteria at all. Instead, they devolve quickly into religious arguments.  And when that occurs, the old addage that _it is impossible to reason someone out of a position they did not reason themself into in the first place _ prevails.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 20, 2008)

Steel_Wind said:


> Apart from some highly technical niche applications (photo editing for use in print media being one of them - and even then...) *there really is no rational basis for choosing a Mac.*




I don't know why you think it is clever to insult everyone on this thread who already uses a Mac, but you won't be posting in it again.

Threadbanned.


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## Remus Lupin (Dec 20, 2008)

Well, my first computer was a Mac, then I used a PC for about a decade, and then I made a conscious decision to use a Mac again.

Having experienced both operating systems through multiple iterations, it comes down a matter of preference -- I find Mac to be easier and more fun to use, it's more intuitive, seemlessly integrated with other aspects of the Apple universe (like my iPhone), and seldom has the kinds of incredibly irritating problems I used to experience with my PC. Plus, NO VIRUSES!

So, I don't know whether those constitute a rational basis for my decision, but those are my reasons, and they seem pretty good to me.


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## tomtill (Dec 21, 2008)

*Mac*

I use both Macs and Windows. I prefer Macs overall. I use Windows for specialized purposes.

More to the point for this poll, if I have a choice, I will choose to run the software version that runs on the Mac, even if it is missing features. If I bother to crank up the PC version, it is only because I really need those particular features. If I can avoid using the PC application at all, I usually do. If there is a native Mac version written in Cocoa, I will use that instead. Why?

Note that I agree with previous posters who said that Apple QC has deteriorated. I believe the thin notebooks they've released are overly flexible and prone to problems as a result. (I hope the new solid aluminum ones will have solved this issue.) I believe that Apple should do a better job of standing behind their products, and make a greater effort to keep their offerings in line with the rest of the market cost-wise (after all, they are built now using off-the-shelf components). I dislike elitism. That said, I haven't noticed any particular largess from PC companies like Dell or Sony, either, though the consumer does benefit from greater competitive pressures.

So why use Macs? I am familiar enough with XP that others come to me to help troubleshoot their computers, both software and hardware. I have built two from the motherboard up. I use XP every day at work. I maintain my wife's and daughter's XP, and my son's Vista. I am writing this long post because I am asking myself this question: why do I gravitate towards Macs, even though I have to deal with "premium" costs and incompatibility issues?

I can't think of an easy answer. Only that overall, after several hours of use, I am less likely to be frustrated by MacOSX than Windows. It is even a pleasurable experience. Your mileage may vary, especially if you have been heavily trained under Windows. The workflows are quite different.  Oh, and if you are in the market for a new computer, Macs of today have almost nothing in common with their legacy, other than the name and the Apple logo. They are modified Unix-based systems on Intel processors (usually with relatively anemic graphic cards).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 21, 2008)

> See my issue with that is that I hear the very same arguments from the people here (at work). They say “but this Apple always works and I never have any issues with it!” and then I pull up the work logs and show them that the reality they live in is not the reality I work in. And then they go to the director and complain that we keep a work log.




I don't doubt that there are people who have Macs that have hardware problems.  I'm just not one of them.  Nor are my parents.  My Dad is still using some original iMacs in his office for writing up his notes for patient files.  Oh yeah- he just found a power-cord for his laptop, too (which he needs- the rechargable battery is simply dead).

Really, though, any manufacturer can produce garbage, regardless of industry.  In my lifetime, my family has owned 4 Volvos.  The first 2 lasted nearly 18 years each.  One only lasted a few years, but that was because it was accordioned in a wreck.  The last one was sold while in perfect working order at age 4.

OTOH, I had some friends who had 1 Volvo.  In the 5 years they owned it, it spent nearly 1 1/2 years at the mechanic's.  That is no exaggeration- the thing was a classic lemon.


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## Thanee (Dec 21, 2008)

Remus Lupin said:


> Plus, NO VIRUSES!




I would be careful with that... naturally, PCs get the bulk of the attention, but Macs surely are also attacked.

Bye
Thanee


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## Calico_Jack73 (Dec 22, 2008)

PC

With VMWare Server (which is free by the way) I can use it to run any OS I want without having to rebuild the dang thing every time.

I'm a Windows System Engineer by trade so it kinda makes sense for me to stick with what I know.  I'm running Vista Ultimate at home and haven't had any problems with it.  If I were to run into a problem I am far better equiped to troubleshoot it than if I had a Mac.  The biggest reason though is that I'm a gamer and until games start hitting the Mac first and then releasing to PC years later I'll stick with my PC.


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## Merkuri (Dec 22, 2008)

Calico_Jack73 said:


> With VMWare Server (which is free by the way) I can use it to run any OS I want without having to rebuild the dang thing every time.




Oh, VMWare is a godsend!  I use it at work all the time so that I can have any version of our software at my fingertips when customers call to ask about older pieces I'm not familiar with.  Plus I can do anything I want to them and just hit "revert to snapshot" to undo it.

Sorry for the thread derail.  Back to your regularly scheduled Mac vs PC argument.


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## Mercule (Dec 22, 2008)

tomtill said:


> I can't think of an easy answer. Only that overall, after several hours of use, I am less likely to be frustrated by MacOSX than Windows. It is even a pleasurable experience. Your mileage may vary, especially if you have been heavily trained under Windows. The workflows are quite different.



I think this pretty well nails it, with one addendum:  Different people think in different ways.  

When I was growing up, I worked on both Commodore computers and Apple II series machines.  The little bit that I knew about IBM PCs gave me a pretty bad impression, so I avoided them.

When I went off to college, I was introduced almost simultaneously to DOS, VMS, Unix, and Mac, with Windows 3.1 following a couple years later.  I had to learn some VMS and Unix just to get my email because the dumb-terminals were the only thing we could get at the dorms.  DOS was (in my mind) very similar to those, because they all worked at a command prompt, though I found the DOS commands to be a bit more intuitive.  I assumed I'd like the Macs because I'd always liked the Apple II computers in my high school.

Man, was I wrong.  The way the interface was set up was just plain painful for me.  It was downright non-intuitive for me.  X-Windows and Windows 3.1 (with Norton Desktop) were both much easier to use, though 3.1 was slow enough that I still favored DOS over either Windows or Mac.  I found Windows 95 to be much, much improved in usability and was a hands-down winner over the Mac UI, for me.

As I said before, though, I haven't seen the new OSX (or later).  It's possible it'd kick XP/Vista butt.  I doubt it, though.  Over the years, I've just discovered that most of the things Apple does that its fans rave about just turn me off.  I was just having a conversation last night about the wheel control on iPods and how clunky I think it is.  Pretty much everyone else I'm aware of thinks the wheel is great, but I'll probably never own an iPod just because I hate the way it drives (though the new touch screens are a different matter).  

It makes me a minority, and there's absolutely no logical reason for my preference.  Still, I apparently just can't think like Steve Jobs (yes, I know he doesn't personally design the interfaces).  Anyone who has ever managed a project or done brainstorming knows that people just think/work differently.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 23, 2008)

Calico_Jack73 said:


> PC
> 
> With VMWare Server (which is free by the way) I can use it to run any OS I want without having to rebuild the dang thing every time.




Hey, that is news I didn't know about! I've been using the free VMware player, but VMWare server free will be excellent.

(goes off to download it)

Cheers


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