# GAME OF THRONES #10:Valar Morghulis ACT 20 Chapter 2-2012 *Season Ending*



## Truth Seeker (Jun 3, 2012)

*Valar Morghulis*

The aftermath of the Battle of the Blackwater sees the winner reward his followers while Tyrion finds himself in a strange situation. In Winterfell, Maester Luwin has some final advice for Theon. In the Riverlands, Jaqen H'ghar gives Arya a gift, and Dany visits a wondrous place in Qarth. Beyond the Wall, Jon Snow pleases Qhorin with his actions.








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## TarionzCousin (Jun 4, 2012)

A man has a new face.


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## Starman (Jun 4, 2012)

Damn. Very good. I can't wait until next season. However...

I was disappointed in the House of the Undying. It just wasn't nearly as cool as it was in the book. I was definitely expecting more. Although, dragons breathing fire is pretty damn awesome.


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## Ebon Shar (Jun 4, 2012)

I loved it, but there are so many characters and such scattered storylines that they are having a very hard time maintaining a strong narrative.  It is only going to get worse, as well.  My kids, who are teen-agers and who have not read the books, are having a hard time keeping up with the story and keeping track of just who is who.  I've found we have to pause the show on occasion and have a quick recap.  In a household where nobody has read the books, it must be quite a challenge keeping score.


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## Truth Seeker (Jun 4, 2012)

The half of man was pissed on...man they rob him of deserved glory!!!

Bastards!!


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## Krug (Jun 4, 2012)

Yeah the deaths in this episode just didn't have the impact they had in the books. Still, it was well-done, even if the confrontation in the Tower of the Undying was rather meh, and I thought 



Spoiler



the three dragons would be much bigger by now!


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## NewJeffCT (Jun 4, 2012)

I thought the episode had some good points to it - Tyrion & Varys, and Tyrion/Shae; Joff in the throne room with Loras/Margaery while Sansa looks on; Sansa and Littlefinger; and Arya/Jaqen.  The end with Sam on the Fist as the white walkers approached was pretty good.

However, the House of the Undying was disappointing.  It may be the most discussed chapter in all five books because of all the visions Dany sees, yet we get the Iron Throne covered in snow and Drogo with a baby.  Nothing with:
[sblock] child of three - 3 fires shall be lit and 3 mounts she will ride.  No visions of Rhaegar.. no implication of R+L=J... no Dany surrounded by the masses screaming "mother"... no foretelling of the Red Wedding. [/sblock]

Not sure I liked how the Halfhand went out.


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## Remus Lupin (Jun 4, 2012)

There was some moments that were truly excellent in this episode, particularly I thought the character beats gave texture to some characters that wasn't in the novels.  Shae in particular came off far more sympathetic in the end.

I have to admit, I didn't like Doreah's ending. Given that it comes much earlier in the novel, I thought they had some plans to build her up a bit more as a character. The fact that her ending was a) a betrayal and b) rather grisly was disappointing. Though she was never a major character in any event.


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## Cor Azer (Jun 4, 2012)

Interesting end to Xaro. Although I'm sure the warlocks will still attempt vengeance on Dany, wuth him gone I suppose it'll fall to the others in the Thirteen to provide later navsl support against Dany in Meereen.

Wonder how/if they'll get Arstan and Belwas to join up now that Dany's presumably leaving Qarth.


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## TarionzCousin (Jun 4, 2012)

Cor Azer said:


> Interesting end to Xaro. Although I'm sure the warlocks will still attempt vengeance on Dany, wuth him gone I suppose it'll fall to the others in the Thirteen to provide later navsl support against Dany in Meereen.
> 
> Wonder how/if they'll get Arstan and Belwas to join up now that Dany's presumably leaving Qarth.



Xaro isn't gone; he's just chilling with a hot babe in his treasure vault.


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## NewJeffCT (Jun 4, 2012)

TarionzCousin said:


> Xaro isn't gone; he's just chilling with a hot babe in his treasure vault.




I'd XP you for that comment, if I could.


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## GMforPowergamers (Jun 4, 2012)

Having never read the books I loved the house of the undying, I was only hopeing for more "warlocks"


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## jonesy (Jun 4, 2012)

Since they did introduce 



Spoiler



Quaithe


 on the show, and didn't do much at all with her, it's possible they might 



Spoiler



use her to reveal the missing visions. That, or perhaps use the Reeds instead since we know they appear in the next season.


 Or, maybe not. I stopped expecting certain background material from the books when Tower of Joy failed to appear in season 1.


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## MarkB (Jun 4, 2012)

Nicely epic foreboding music at the end there. Even Sky's continuity announcers, who are typically complete philistines, didn't dare interrupt it.


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## Chairman7w (Jun 4, 2012)

Eeehhhhh....   I don't necessarily disagree with any of the points you make, but I consider it very insignificant.  I'm SO grateful we have an amazing adaption (little tiny discrepancies and all) from HBO of our beloved books.  Can't wait for season 3.

NOTE:  I also kinda think it's cool that it's slightly different from the books in places.  I mean, how boring would it be if it followed the books, word-for-word, chapter-for-chapter, story-for-story.  This is much more interesting.



NewJeffCT said:


> I thought the episode had some good points to it - Tyrion & Varys, and Tyrion/Shae; Joff in the throne room with Loras/Margaery while Sansa looks on; Sansa and Littlefinger; and Arya/Jaqen.  The end with Sam on the Fist as the white walkers approached was pretty good.
> 
> However, the House of the Undying was disappointing.  It may be the most discussed chapter in all five books because of all the visions Dany sees, yet we get the Iron Throne covered in snow and Drogo with a baby.  Nothing with:
> [sblock] child of three - 3 fires shall be lit and 3 mounts she will ride.  No visions of Rhaegar.. no implication of R+L=J... no Dany surrounded by the masses screaming "mother"... no foretelling of the Red Wedding. [/sblock]
> ...


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## Remus Lupin (Jun 4, 2012)

Also in terms of character development, I was surprised at Shae's devotion to Tyrion, and wonder how that will work out in story terms given what's coming. I don't think they can substantially change the end of that story line from the books.

Also interesting to see Varys recruiting Ros. Once more, I state that I think she'll meet a very messy end.


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## NewJeffCT (Jun 5, 2012)

Remus Lupin said:


> Also in terms of character development, I was surprised at Shae's devotion to Tyrion, and wonder how that will work out in story terms given what's coming. I don't think they can substantially change the end of that story line from the books.
> 
> Also interesting to see Varys recruiting Ros. Once more, I state that I think she'll meet a very messy end.




I think in the books, (spoilers)
[sblock]I think Shae did care for Tyrion, though not as much as he cared for her.  But, she's also a survivor and when she was tortured (or threatened with death/torture) by Qyburn, she sold Tyrion out, as she figured he was going to be executed soon and she wanted to live. [/sblock]


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## LightPhoenix (Jun 6, 2012)

I didn't mind the changes to the House of the Undying for two main reasons. 

First, the history/characters are stuff that have barely been touched on in the show.  While it's certainly interesting, I think that introducing it now only serves to make things more confusing.  I know this is anecdotal, but I lot of people I've talked to who haven't read the books have a hard time keeping the characters straight as it is.  

Second, the season finale isn't really the right time dramatically to do that kind of stuff.  It disrupts the pacing of the episode to have what is basically a bunch of set-up and exposition in the climax of the season.  It was much more in line with the pacing to show Dany being tempted and ultimately triumphant.

I suspect that we'll see some of Dany's missing story (including prophecy) early next season.


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## Felon (Jun 7, 2012)

So, Theon's boys just up and leave, and become the villains who burn Winterfell to the ground. In a way, that's disappointing. The Game of Thrones novels employ a never-ending series of castrations and flayings and disembowelments and gang rapes and other prurient acts to maintain reader interest via shock value. Given that, one of the prime contenders in the pageant of sadism that is GoT is being denied us. 

Perhaps not surprising though. There have been a lot of little moments of empathy and humanity that are antithetical to the pervasively grim tone of the novels. For example, it's unlikely you'd see a soldier be squeamish about killing a baby. Nor would you see Varys having a moment where he puts aside his enmity towards Littlefinger to display some mutual grudging respect, or issue some words of sincere-sounding consolation to Tyrion. Even Cersai has been sympathetic at times.


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## jonesy (Jun 7, 2012)

Felon said:


> There have been a lot of little moments of empathy and humanity that are antithetical to the pervasively grim tone of the novels. For example, it's unlikely you'd see a soldier be squeamish about killing a baby.



That's not a good example since the scene wasn't about the random soldier, it was about Slynt who hadn't had a whole lot of characterization up to that point.

And sometimes the changes cut both ways. Dany's wedding night for instance is a lot more empathetic to the young girls plight in the book.

On the other hand Arya on the show isn't anywhere near as murderous. _"Is there any gold hidden in the village? Where is Lord Beric? How many men did Lord Beric have? How many? How many? How many?"_ On the show she has personally killed one person, almost by accident. In the books, something like 8 on purpose by this point in the story.

But the books do give insight into how the characters think and many come across better because of that. Littlefinger is still a creep, but on the show he's a creep and not much more. Book Petyr is one of my favourite characters. Show Petyr has very few redeeming qualities.


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## Cor Azer (Jun 7, 2012)

Felon said:


> So, Theon's boys just up and leave, and become the villains who burn Winterfell to the ground. In a way, that's disappointing. The Game of Thrones novels employ a never-ending series of castrations and flayings and disembowelments and gang rapes and other prurient acts to maintain reader interest via shock value. Given that, one of the prime contenders in the pageant of sadism that is GoT is being denied us.
> 
> Perhaps not surprising though. There have been a lot of little moments of empathy and humanity that are antithetical to the pervasively grim tone of the novels. For example, it's unlikely you'd see a soldier be squeamish about killing a baby. Nor would you see Varys having a moment where he puts aside his enmity towards Littlefinger to display some mutual grudging respect, or issue some words of sincere-sounding consolation to Tyrion. Even Cersai has been sympathetic at times.




Well, maybe, maybe not.

Cleftjaw and co up and leave? Check.
Winterfell burnt down? Check.
Related? Undecided.

Cleftjaw and co could have just as easily turned over Theon to "Stark's" men, and been butchered anyway by Ramsay Snow before the bastard goes on to burn down Winterfell. After all, we last see them heading for the gate, not wandring around setting stuff on fire and killing the remaining servants.


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## MarkB (Jun 7, 2012)

Cor Azer said:


> Well, maybe, maybe not.
> 
> Cleftjaw and co up and leave? Check.
> Winterfell burnt down? Check.
> ...




The dialogue also supports the interpretation that it's the attackers who burned Winterfell, not the departing Iron Islanders. Osha says something like "We have to hurry, they might come back", indicating that she believes the Northerner soldiers have already arrived, sacked the place and left again.


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## NewJeffCT (Jun 8, 2012)

Cor Azer said:


> Well, maybe, maybe not.
> 
> Cleftjaw and co up and leave? Check.
> Winterfell burnt down? Check.
> ...




Agreed - Ramsay Snow did just that in A Dance with Dragons.  [sblock]Convinced the Ironborn in Moat Cailin to surrender with Theon's help, then butcher them when they leave.[/sblock]


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