# Game of Death continuation thread 1



## Dinkeldog (May 6, 2003)

From here:

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=879184#post879184


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## seasong (May 6, 2003)

Link to the game
and the rules
and the map


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## cool hand luke (May 6, 2003)

roll call for the new thread, is this going to happen here, or in another forum?


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## Number47 (May 6, 2003)

I think that's up to the mods. I prefer in General, just because I like lots of fans to watch.


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## cool hand luke (May 6, 2003)

exhibitionist.

I'd like it where no one can see how bad I'm going to get slaughtered.


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## Pielorinho (May 6, 2003)

My name is Daniel....

(looks furtively at Eric's grandma, lurking at the top of the forum, then leans in close and whispers...)

_and I like to watch_.

Daniel


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## Jeremy (May 6, 2003)

-


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## seasong (May 6, 2003)

Number47, in the mail I sent you, I think I used my reference numbers rather than the bear's actual names. Just in case, and since it doesn't give any OOC info to anyone, here is the numbers to names conversion:

HB1 - Mr Buffles
HB2 - Mr Cuffles
TB1 - Mr Duffles
TB2 - Mr Fluffles
EB1 - Mr Gruffles
EB2 - Mr Huffles

TPB1 through TPB8 - No names

MR - Mr Stampy
MS - Mrs Stampy


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## Saepiroth (May 6, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *exhibitionist.*



 Darn straight. My bed is in front of a plate-glass window facing the street.


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## JDragon (May 6, 2003)

I'm in.

JDragon

BTW- if a new thread is started else where, please link to it from this thread so that those of us using the email notification can find it easily.


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## seasong (May 7, 2003)

Okay, so here's my plan for the delinquents*. I've got prep rounsd and coordinates from everyone but duder and clockworkjoe. I've got mostly complete characters from duder and reapersaurus.

Any coordinates I don't have by midnight tomorrow, I will pick for them and send it on to Number47, who will then post the map. Once he posts the map, no changes in coordinates will be allowed from anyone. I will pick the coordinates semi-randomly.

Since the prep round will be mostly invisible, I will only be posting character descriptions, where people appear, and anything obvious about their appearance (or if they are invisible).

I will then give until midnight Friday to send me:
1) Round 1 actions.
2) The completed character, for duder and reapersaurus.

On point 2, if they don't have a completed character by then, I will complete it myself, based on the corrections I sent them (reapersaurus has sent me an update, I'll use that).

* Yes, I'm aware of the irony. But we need to get this moving.


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## Saepiroth (May 7, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> ** Yes, I'm aware of the irony. But we need to get this moving. *



 What irony?


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## seasong (May 7, 2003)

Irony: How long it took me to get through the last few characters for correction.


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## Saepiroth (May 7, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Irony: How long it took me to get through the last few characters for correction. *



 I didn't think it was that long, which is why I said "What irony? ".


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## reapersaurus (May 8, 2003)

I'll check my email at home for any corrections from seasong to my character(s).

Other than a bit of cleanup/finalizing, it should be ready to go.


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## duder (May 8, 2003)

finished and sent.


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## seasong (May 8, 2003)

Quick update

Working on duder's finalized character. So far, so good .

Reapersaurus, please confirm that you got the answers I sent you. I think the only thing you need to complete at this point is equipment, and I didn't see any other errors (whew!). When you've finalized equipment, I'll go over it and then you should be done.

Number47, I believe I have sent you everyone's coordinates at this point, so feel free to post the map at any point . If you DON'T have everyone's coordinates, let me know who you're missing.

So far, I haven't seen any major issues with duder or reaperaurus final characters, so I'm hopeful that we'll be ready to go soon. Prep rounds should be finished late, late, late Friday night, if not earlier than that.


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## Number47 (May 8, 2003)

I am missing duder's coordinates.


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## seasong (May 8, 2003)

Sent 'em.

By the way, I'm having trouble with the link for the map. Did you take it down?


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## Number47 (May 8, 2003)

Changed it, for ease of updating later. See your e-mail.


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## seasong (May 8, 2003)

Number47, thank you so much for putting the map together! It looks really good!

Note:
- I still owe duder an approval on his character. However, at this point, his character is in its final form. I won't allow any gross changes based on the map, nor do I think he would do that .

- Reapersaurus still owes me a finalized equipment list, but he already sent me a pretty complete list, and I don't think there's anything the map would push him to get, that he doesn't already have - he's pretty good, there.

So... Here is The Map

From here on, there shall be no editting of prep rounds, starting coordinates, or the adding of strange new things to characters. That's where you are.

It's gonna be messy .


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## cool hand luke (May 8, 2003)

that top corner is going to be druid smashing fun!  ugly quick.  Is there going to be a description of the characters anywhere, so we have a clue what were facing?


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## seasong (May 8, 2003)

Yes. When I finish the prep rounds, I will post a description of all characters (per the "Prior to the Prep Round" section on the website), as well as mention who is visible or invisible upon arrival into the arena (and any other visible changes in appearance after the prep round), etc.


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## JDragon (May 8, 2003)

I am really, really, really glad I opted for the corner I did, to start this party off in. 

'Cause that other one looks just plain out jacked up.

JDragon

AKA Izad = token "X"


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## Number47 (May 8, 2003)

Strangely enough, I am happy to be starting in the big pile-up. Of course, it all comes down to initiative now. Come on, big initiative, no whammys!


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## duder (May 8, 2003)

oh noes. Reaper's gonna hate me for what I do first turn.


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## Saepiroth (May 9, 2003)

Depending on initiative, I am going to have a FUN first round.


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## Number47 (May 9, 2003)

Depending on initiative, you might not get a first round.


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## seasong (May 9, 2003)

Updated the arena blog with links to this thread and Number47's map.

A few reminders about the rules:

1) All OOC discussion should be public. No secret planning. I expect characters to make reasonable, non-metagame decisions.

2) Midgame rulings are inevitable. I will make them as fair as possible. Smackdowns (around 200 hp in one blow, very low probability of failure) will be allowed ONCE and then nerfed. Remember to have a backup plan.

3) Good manners are required. Good sportsmanship is required. I don't want name-calling, accusations, personal attacks, excessive complaints, etc. I will kick people out of the game for repeated offenses.

4) The game rules. 

The course of the events this weekend:

1. I will send out individual e-mails with the results of your prep round.
2. I will post a description of everyone's character as they looked prior to the prep round.
3. I will post any visible changes (including invisible status) after everyone appears in the arena.
4. I will post initiatives.
5. You will have 24 hours from when I post initiative to send me your 1st round action. I will take 1-3 days to process that.

Final comments:

I suggest reading through the website as a refresher. If it's on the website, and you are caught by surprise, I'm sorry - them's the rules.


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## Saepiroth (May 9, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Depending on initiative, you might not get a first round. *



 heh heh heh heh heh...

We'll see about THAT.


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## Number47 (May 9, 2003)

Just stating an overall truth about the Game of Death.


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## reapersaurus (May 9, 2003)

confirmation: 
yes, i got your answer email, seasong, and i think it answered perfectly everything i was wondering about.

Will get the final tally of equipment to you tonight in an email.
(haven't had a chance to see the map yet, so I'll wait to comment on duder's smack-talk.   )


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## seasong (May 10, 2003)

I've got the prep round ready to go, I'm just waiting on a few nitpicky corrections on duder's characters (and one correction on his prep round) and the equipment list from reapersaurus.

I think I'm going to nap for a little while now...


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## cool hand luke (May 10, 2003)

*?*

got a question on mechanics.

How do we make our posts?  Are we going to do it one at a time in order of initiative?  or just post some action, with the caveat, "unless something happens that would change it"

through a round you could definitely change your mind about what you were oging to do if you are on the low end of initiative


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## cool hand luke (May 10, 2003)

when is initiative due out?


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## Saepiroth (May 10, 2003)

*Re: ?*



			
				cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *got a question on mechanics.
> 
> How do we make our posts?  Are we going to do it one at a time in order of initiative?  or just post some action, with the caveat, "unless something happens that would change it"
> 
> through a round you could definitely change your mind about what you were oging to do if you are on the low end of initiative *




Round starts; We all e-mail him our moves simultaneously. He processes them and posts the log for that round on the webblog.

Next Round.


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## cool hand luke (May 10, 2003)

what if something happens mid-round that would affect your decisions?  example
I send in a move that I'm going to charge a guy a little bit aways, and lay the smack down, however, they other guy has initiative on me, and flees, cast blade barrier between us, etc, obviously my actions would change, how is this handled?


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## seasong (May 10, 2003)

Per the "Game Rules" section of the website:







> If you send an action which is not physically possible (using a feat on a target that is no longer there, for example), I will send you a reply explaining the issue and asking for clarification and/or a different action. This will occasionally slow the game down, and I ask for patience - I would rather get it right than get it fast in most cases.



This will also apply to things like "I run over to Bob", "There is now a blade barrier between you and Bob".

In related news, a ruling that I thought was reasonably clear, but seems to require some additional clarification . So here it is - if I missed some weird rule or something, let me know, of course.

Ioun stones which store spells allow you to cast spells you would not otherwise be able to cast. This is per a strict reading of the item description (which refers to the ring of spell storing), and a strict reading of the ring of spell storing description.

Since you are casting a spell, the limit of 1 quickened + 1 normal spell per round applies to spells from spell storing ioun stones as well.


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## dave_o (May 10, 2003)

Could someone give me a link to where the actual posting will be going down?

A Seasong done GoD? EGADS. MUST WATCH.

Thanks in advance.  (Too bad I didn't get in on this one.)

*Edit:* I am an idiot, I found it on the website. Disregard.


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## cool hand luke (May 11, 2003)

where do we stand?


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## seasong (May 11, 2003)

Going over reapersaurus' equipment right now. Still waiting on duder's corrections.


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## duder (May 12, 2003)

prep round v2.0 sent.


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## clockworkjoe (May 12, 2003)

Oh, my character description: 

A weathered half ogre in heavy armor prepared for battle, all of his equipment encrusted in dust and grim as though it has been used in a decades long military campaign, although it seems quite functional. His face is blank, neither afraid or pleased with his condition. He seems like a craftsman about to start work, no different than a potter or weaver. The only difference between Marius and a common artisan is that Marius's craft is murder.


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## cool hand luke (May 12, 2003)

mussssssttttt...........kkkiilllll  NNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOOWWWWWWWWW!!!!!

ok guys, get your stuff in, there's blood that needs spillin!


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## seasong (May 12, 2003)

Just a quick note: work's kicking my &%$ today, so I won't be around much until this evening.

Reapersaurus' equipment looks good 'cept for one thing, so I think we're pretty much done there. Duder sent me everything last night, so I'll get on that this evening.

I've been a bit too optimistic about time tables, so I won't say anything more about that .


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## Saepiroth (May 12, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *I've been a bit too optimistic about time tables, so I won't say anything more about that . *



 I sorta guessed... Three days + 16 animals + 11 characters + 12 cohorts =  42


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## Number47 (May 12, 2003)

I started to go through and collect the descriptions of how people described their characters' appearance, but I gave up. There weren't enough people who gave a description, and I got sick of tracking them down.

I guess I'm just going to sit and wait to see what Seasong posts for each character and then see if anyone want to slap a little more flavor on top. I will re-post mine, if I'm not the only one interested.


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

*Repost*



> _Originally posted by Jeremy:_
> *My three characters are respectively:
> 
> Tairnandon (PC)- A human man of average height and build with a winning smile and a nice tan with no weapons in a monk's outfit.
> ...


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

*Repost*



			
				clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Marius the Weathered (PC)
> Oh, my character description:
> 
> A weathered half ogre in heavy armor prepared for battle, all of his equipment encrusted in dust and grim as though it has been used in a decades long military campaign, although it seems quite functional. His face is blank, neither afraid or pleased with his condition. He seems like a craftsman about to start work, no different than a potter or weaver. The only difference between Marius and a common artisan is that Marius's craft is murder. *


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

*Repost*



> _Originally posted by Number 47:_
> *Enter Xiao Fung:
> 
> Xiao Fung is a man of middle years and yellow complexion. His hair is long and black, just beginning to show streaks of white, tied into a braid and affixed at the top with an ornament of green stone. He has no beard, but his moustache is grown long. He carries little with him, at least that can be seen. His garments are of black silk, looking a bit like baggy pajamas, with fabric buttons. Overall, Xiao Fung looks like a slight man, average height. His gaze is steely and harsh.
> ...


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

*Repost*



> _Originally posted by DM with a vengeance:_
> *Hagbard the Chartreuse (PC)- A man of indeterminate age with a large beard and greenish robes wanders in out of the wilderness, followed by 14 large bears, two elephant, and a rather nondescript pair wearing puce and mauve robes respectively.
> 
> "Hail, friends. I am Hagbard the Chartreuse, a wizard of pussiant might. I advise you not to trifle with me, because as my colleague Gandalf the Gray says, "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they a subtle and have a long memory. And in my case, if you annoy me, MR. STAMPY WILL POUND YOUR SPINAL CORD INTO THE GROUND!!!!!, isn't that right Mr. Stampy? I think that now that we understand each other, we'll get along just fine. So, been anywhere interesting lately?"*




_Edit: Updated_


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

*Repost*



> _Originally posted by cool hand luke:_
> *oh yeah, description
> 
> my trio
> ...


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Saepiroth:_
> *Cholestus the Shredder (PC) - An unkempt, raven haired, greasy, and most of all short man stands staring off into space, yelling at himself.
> 
> :The left arm reaches up and flicks the right ear:
> ...




Guy with huge spiked chain?


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

*Repost*



> _Originally posted by JDragon_
> *Izad, is a human male of average hieght & build with graying black hair and blue eyes. He is wearing simple traveling
> clothes is carrying a backpack and what appears to be an oversize bolt case filled with javelins of varrying sizes.*


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## Number47 (May 13, 2003)

I think JDragon had one in there. Three characters, one which was undead?


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## Jeremy (May 13, 2003)

Three characters, one of which was ghostly describes my trio if that's what you are thinking of...  But I didn't see a character description from him or the others.  Just a lot of questions about thrown weapons and javelins and quickdraw.  I could have missed it, I scanned through it fairly quickly and inbetween calls here at work.


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## JDragon (May 13, 2003)

Here we go...

Izad, is a human male of average hieght & build with graying black hair and blue eyes.  He is wearing simple traveling
clothes is carrying a backpack and what appears to be an oversize bolt case filled with javelins of varrying sizes.

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (May 13, 2003)

some of the descriptions don't have character names. Who is who?


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## cool hand luke (May 13, 2003)

my characters,

half ogre, unth Dirn
bow holding human: antony Grandell
large human, with flail, Mortem Redgrave


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## Number47 (May 13, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *some of the descriptions don't have character names. Who is who? *




Including Jeremy


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## reapersaurus (May 13, 2003)

Master is a unassuming, feisty, cantankerous little man wearing goggles, well-worn clothes and a back-sack.
His eyes look somewhat manic and studious at the same time, while his white hair is scraggled and bare in spots, like he's lived a life among animals, or at least in their company with similar hygenic failings.

Blaster is a humungous, hulking brute of obvious slow-mindedness, who dotes on the little man, but becomes a fierce combatant when instructed to, or if Master is attacked.
He is wearing no armor, but a collar, a belt, and some items.

His muscles seem to have muscles on them.


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## Number47 (May 13, 2003)

Are Master and Blaster human?

Edit: Apparently human?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (May 13, 2003)

Rillos is a lanky, lean elf wearing a light tunic, which is mostly covered by a long dark green cloak.  His eyes are an emerald green with a hint of insanity.  He currently wielders a longbow, but a rapier is also at his side, ready to be drawn.


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## cool hand luke (May 16, 2003)

where back folks!

for all that is good in the world let's get this thing rolling!


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## reapersaurus (May 17, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Are Master and Blaster human?
> 
> Edit: Apparently human? *



Neither is apparently human.
How much info should we provide?
Cause it'd be pretty obvious what Master, and probably Blaster are....


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## Number47 (May 17, 2003)

I would assume that if you don't have magic or the disguise skill to change your appearance, we should state basic race at the very least.


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## Saepiroth (May 17, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Guy with huge spiked chain? *



 Yep. 

PS;
*WE... LIVE... AGAIN!*


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## DM with a vengence (May 17, 2003)

*Re: Repost*



			
				Jeremy said:
			
		

> *
> --snipped--
> *




Thank you, Jemery, I thought I'd lost that.
But back to the revisied description 

Hagbard the Chartreuse (PC)- A man of indeterminate age with a large beard and greenish robes wanders in out of the wilderness, followed by 14 large bears, two elephant, and a rather nondescript pair wearing puce and mauve robes respectively.

"Hail, friends. I am Hagbard the Chartreuse, a wizard of pussiant might. I advise you not to trifle with me, because as my colleague Gandalf the Gray says, "Do not meddle in the affairs of Wizards, for they a subtle and have a long memory. And in my case, if you annoy me, MR. STAMPY WILL POUND YOUR SPINAL CORD INTO THE GROUND!!!!!, isn't that right Mr. Stampy? I think that now that we understand each other, we'll get along just fine. So, been anywhere interesting lately?"


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## cool hand luke (May 19, 2003)

status?


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## Jeremy (May 19, 2003)

My pleasure.   I updated the posts I had for people who had posted and I got wrong or people updated, but didn't repost new posts as they are right there anyways.


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## seasong (May 19, 2003)

Okay, one too many problems with Texas.net e-mail. My new e-mail for the moment is "temanp at hotmail dot com".

I can access this from work for the moment, so I'm sending out a group test e-mail now. Reapersaurus, duder, your stuff will be along soon.

For future, when ENWorld is down; when my e-mail is problematic; etc.... I will be using this forum as a backup.


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## cool hand luke (May 20, 2003)

*oh no*

well, this sucks. I'm going to be out of town from June 4th-14th, probably right about the time this thing kicks off.  From the 4th to the 9th, I'll be completely out of touch, and from the 9-14th, will have limited access.

SOrry, I figured we'd be done with this thing by those dates when we started.

any chance we start this week?


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## Number47 (May 22, 2003)

Has this all been some cruel joke? 

Bump for a very eager Number47.


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## cool hand luke (May 22, 2003)

please let it not be so!


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## Jeremy (May 23, 2003)

*sips his ice-water and waits*  "Soon enough, Wee Jas's fighting spirit will be revealed and you can return to lamenting in the hell that belched you forth," Tairnandon intones coldy in an eerily deep bass voice.


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## cool hand luke (May 23, 2003)

i'm getting a bad feeling about this.  Does anyone else want to run one of these, or, perhaps, pick this one up where it stands now?


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## reapersaurus (May 24, 2003)

I wouldn't jump the gun, luke.
I'm pretty sure seasong is still planning on the blood flowing quite soon, but has just gotten tied up with RL concerns lately.
I'm sure he'll come along in a bit, and we'll be ready to go - he's done way too much effort to stop now, right before all the good part happens!


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## Saepiroth (May 26, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *Does anyone else want to run one of these?*



 I'm actually about to start running one on Somethingawful. However, I'm not crossposting it here because I'm just not an experienced enough DM to handle some of you guys' character concepts, and some of the limits I'm planning to place on characters to keep my paperwork down will probably make you guys chafe at the heels.

Besides, the intended backstory and game style is extremely "SA" in origin. Would you really want to play in a game which was begun because Elminster got ahold of some crack and is too high to see his hands? 

If you want to see it grow, though, It'll turn up the SA's Games forum's subforum Traditional Games in a few days, and that's still open to the public, I believe.


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## DM with a vengence (May 26, 2003)

Reading all those fun post on somethingawful about my Druid Horde of Death! (TM) just made me feel warm and fuzzy inside.  

Almost as warm and fuzzy as realizing that it'll take me 5 hours to do my moves.

In the middle of finals.

I'm pretty certain it'll be cool, but in the meantime but Seasong and I will be slowly going insane.

I apologize for the inconvinience.


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## reapersaurus (May 26, 2003)

Maybe someone can take care of that companion problem you've got there, DMWaV...


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## Number47 (May 29, 2003)

Where has seasong gone? Does anybody know him in real life? Has he been posting anywhere at all?


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## Jeremy (May 29, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Okay, one too many problems with Texas.net e-mail. My new e-mail for the moment is "temanp at hotmail dot com".
> 
> I can access this from work for the moment, so I'm sending out a group test e-mail now. Reapersaurus, duder, your stuff will be along soon.
> 
> For future, when ENWorld is down; when my e-mail is problematic; etc.... I will be using this forum as a backup. *




His last post was on the 19th, same as the day he posted the above.  Maybe it wasn't just his email but his ISP as well.  Though I can't imagine what would keep him from posting for a couple weeks from work.


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## Saepiroth (May 29, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *Though I can't imagine what would keep him from posting for a couple weeks from work. *



 Car crash. Aneurysm. Stroke.


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## Jeremy (May 29, 2003)

My, you're a positive fellow.   

Let's hope it's nothing so dramatic.


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## Number47 (May 30, 2003)

There is a post in Seasongs story hour by Indigo Veil, who is apparently one of his players. It seems Seasong is about, but busy. Hopefully he can at least stop by and say hi soon.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 1, 2003)

I share your concerns, and bafflement about his disappearance.

He didn't reply to an email I sent, also.

Outside of something serious, personally or financially, what would keep a person off the internet for 2 weeks, either from home or work?


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## Number47 (Jun 2, 2003)

Just wanted to post a link to a discussion for my homebrew game of death. No promises so far, but discuss.

Number47 GoD


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## seasong (Jun 4, 2003)

I'm still around. Personal stuff + work stuff + other stuff = no updates for way too long. There will also be no update this week, but I'm setting aside Saturday to try to catch up again.

Anyways, I apologize for the period of absence. The fastest way to kill something is to not update for a while, and I'll do my best to make it up to those of y'all who hung around.

Reading over the posts, it looks like Cool hand luke will have timing problems from the 9th to 14th, so howzabout we kick it off on the 15th?

Reapersaurus and duder, will you two be around this weekend? If we can schedule some times to do a yahoo messenger chat or flurry of emails over the weekend, that would be good.

Anyway, sorry to have been so flaky the past month.


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## Number47 (Jun 4, 2003)

Hey, no problem. As long as you're actually still there and it will still happen, I can be patient. Can I suggest that you post up the character descriptions and initiatives when you have time, then just give everyone until the 15th or 16th to send in there actions? Some of us who are surrounded might appreciate the extra time to work on our actions. Those of you with 20 character might appreciate it, too.


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## seasong (Jun 4, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Hey, no problem. As long as you're actually still there and it will still happen, I can be patient. Can I suggest that you post up the character descriptions and initiatives when you have time, then just give everyone until the 15th or 16th to send in there actions?



Not a bad idea. Anyone have any objections? Or a preference for the 15th, 16th or 17th for the actions deadline?


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## Jeremy (Jun 4, 2003)

Sounds good to me.


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## Number47 (Jun 4, 2003)

Why don't we just say the 17th, and everybody try to get it in by the 15th. You can always process sooner if everyone has theirs in.


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## seasong (Jun 4, 2003)

Sounds good.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 4, 2003)

Seasong - I'm VERY glad to hear that you're still planning on running your GoD.

I will probably be at home on the weekend, but if you need me for something, I can respond quite regularly and relatively quickly if you just email me.
Was there that much stuff you are going to be sending me or asking me?
If you could send me a quick email letting me know what your observations were, or what you're looking into, then I could understand what might be taking some time...







> *Reading over the posts, it looks like Cool hand luke will have timing problems from the 9th to 14th, so howzabout we kick it off on the 15th? *



I'd suggest that you start the game when YOU are available, NOT when all of us are available.
If one of us is not available for a certain amount of time, than we all understand that that is something we must live with.

As you say, the best way to derail a GoD is a long-term period of inactivity, so IF you are capable of starting it earlier than the 17th, I'd say Go when you (the most important participant) are available.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 5, 2003)

I'd perfer it starting on the 17th myself, I'll be gone every other day-but if you really have to, I can email my prep round and for the next round ahead of time.


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## duder (Jun 6, 2003)

i'll be here late on the 7th and the 8th


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## Saepiroth (Jun 6, 2003)

I'll be just hanging around and doing nothing for the next few months, solid.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 8, 2003)

*Seasong*

Err, what a time to lose your email address, 6 hours before I have to leave for Disney World... 

Anyways, can someone point out where I can find his email, one of my friends here will check this thread later for it and email seasong my prep round and round 1 actions


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## seasong (Jun 8, 2003)

Just a quick note that I'm running behind. I had to take care of some stuff I didn't expect to, but I'm still here.

I'll try to keep y'all updated.

My email is "seasong at texas dot net" or "temanp at hotmail dot com". The latter one is more dependable, but I check both.


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## Number47 (Jun 11, 2003)

Update? Seventeenth is starting to close in.


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## JDragon (Jun 11, 2003)

Just to double check, the descriptions/init have not been posted yet right?

Don't want to end up holding this thing up.

JDragon


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## Number47 (Jun 11, 2003)

Nothing's been posted since you last checked in.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 15, 2003)

Err back, any chance you received that email yet Seasong?  Otherwise now I can email it myself.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 15, 2003)

My game on SA is a-startin'.


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## seasong (Jun 15, 2003)

I am writing up the descriptions and everything now. Just in case I have some problems with the site, which is not unheard of , here is initiative. So far as I know, there were no failures in any prep rounds, so operate on the assumption that everything you sent me to happen, happened.

One exception: If you indicated movement, there was no movement - that happens in round one. The prep round happens _outside_ the arena proper.

Here are the initiatives, from highest to lowest:

reapersaurus (Master) - 33 Init
DM with a vengence (Hagbard the Chartreuse) - 28 Init
Cool hand luke (Antony Grandell) - 27 Init
Jeremy (Osirdar) - 25 Init
reapersaurus (Blaster) - 23 Init
Number47 (Xiao Fung) - 22 Init
Jdragon (Izad) - 22 Init
Tisvon (Rax) - 22 Init
DM with a vengence (Emeldra the Mauve) - 22 Init
Saepiroth (Cholestus the Shredder) - 22 Init
Jeremy (Tairnandon (human)) - 21 Init
Sollir Furryfoot (Rillos) - 20 Init
duder (Mang) - 19 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Cuffles) - 19 Init
Tisvon (Bax) - 18 Init
Cool hand luke (Unth Dirn) - 17 Init
DM with a vengence (Mrs Stampy) - 17 Init
Number47 (Xiao Lung) - 16 Init
Jeremy (Usasmir (half orc)) - 16 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Duffles) - 15 Init
DM with a vengence (Thoramus the Puce) - 14 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Fluffles) - 14 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear A-blue) - 13 Init
duder (Duder) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Buffles) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear D-red) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Stampy) - 11 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear C-red) - 10 Init
Cool hand luke (Mortem Redgrave) - 10 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Huffles) - 8 Init
duder (Omigawd) - 7 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Gruffles) - 7 Init
clockworkjoe (Marius the Weathered) - 5 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear E-red) - 5 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear B-blue) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear C-blue) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear A-red) - 3 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear B-red) - 3 Init
Number47 (Xiao Hu) - 1 Init


And here they are by player/character:

clockworkjoe (Marius the Weathered) - 5 Init
Cool hand luke (Antony Grandell) - 27 Init
Cool hand luke (Mortem Redgrave) - 10 Init
Cool hand luke (Unth Dirn) - 17 Init
DM with a vengence (Emeldra the Mauve) - 22 Init
DM with a vengence (Hagbard the Chartreuse) - 28 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Buffles) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Cuffles) - 19 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Duffles) - 15 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Fluffles) - 14 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Gruffles) - 7 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Huffles) - 8 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Stampy) - 11 Init
DM with a vengence (Mrs Stampy) - 17 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear A-red) - 3 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear A-blue) - 13 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear B-red) - 3 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear B-blue) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear C-red) - 10 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear C-blue) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear D-red) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear E-red) - 5 Init
DM with a vengence (Thoramus the Puce) - 14 Init
duder (Duder) - 12 Init
duder (Mang) - 19 Init
duder (Omigawd) - 7 Init
Jdragon (Izad) - 22 Init
Jeremy (Osirdar) - 25 Init
Jeremy (Tairnandon (human)) - 21 Init
Jeremy (Usasmir (half orc)) - 16 Init
Number47 (Xiao Fung) - 22 Init
Number47 (Xiao Hu) - 1 Init
Number47 (Xiao Lung) - 16 Init
reapersaurus (Blaster) - 23 Init
reapersaurus (Master) - 33 Init
Saepiroth (Cholestus the Shredder) - 22 Init
Sollir Furryfoot (Rillos) - 20 Init
Tisvon (Bax) - 18 Init
Tisvon (Rax) - 22 Init


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## Number47 (Jun 15, 2003)

Did you count Xiao Fung's init at +16 and Xiao Lung's at +15?


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## Saepiroth (Jun 15, 2003)

I take, then, that I am not currently airborne?  then.


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## seasong (Jun 15, 2003)

Number47: Yes, sorry. If anyone deserved the highest initiative, it was you (1, 2 and 6 is just not right). At least you're tied with Cholestus (which reminds me, see Ties, below).

Saepiroth: Correct. Moving during the prep round has no impact on where you appear in the arena. You can move during the first round.

*TIES*

Can't believe I didn't post this with the initiatives . The actual order for the places that were tied will be:

Init 22:
Xiao Fung
Izad
Rax
Emeldra
Cholestus

Init 19:
Mang
Mr Cuffles

Init 17:
Unth Dirn
Mrs Stampy

Init 16:
Xiao Lung
Usasmir

Init 14:
Thoramus
Mr Fluffles

Init 12:
Duder
Mr Buffles
Polar Bear D

Init 10:
Polar Bear C-red
Mortem Redgrave

Init 7:
Omigawd
Mr Gruffles

Init 5:
Marius the Weathered
Polar Bear E

Init 4:
Polar Bear B-blue
Polar Bear C-blue

Init 3:
Polar Bear A-red
Polar Bear B-red


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## Number47 (Jun 15, 2003)

Wow. I invested a LOT to try and get top initiatives. I wonder if even should have bothered.


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## seasong (Jun 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Wow. I invested a LOT to try and get top initiatives. I wonder if even should have bothered.



It's tough to take a crap roll, much less 3 in a row. Given that you now _know_ you got a crap roll, the initiative gamble doesn't look as good. If you'd rolled a 15, 19 and 20, however, you would probably have been quite happy with your decision. From a tactical standpoint, however, initiative is always a gamble, and at least your working for Initiative gauranteed that you aren't going LAST, which is what those rolls would have done to you otherwise.


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## green slime (Jun 15, 2003)

Is this THE board to follow the blow-by-blow developments? Or is there another one, as per Clockworkjoe's?

I've pegged the "map" as a fav, so I can find it, but just wondering...


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## seasong (Jun 15, 2003)

For blow-by-blow, go to the blog page

For the rules of the game, go to the main web page

For all of the discussion and smack talk, though, this is the place to be .


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## seasong (Jun 15, 2003)

Descriptions and full initiative order is posted at the blog site! I have some individual e-mails to send out regarding various detection magics and whatnot, but otherwise, round 1 is ready to begin.

Note: the deadline for round 1 is Tuesday, June 17th, at midnight central standard time (it is 5pm central currently). CST is -6:00 from Greenwhich Mean (GMT). If you don't get your action sent in, I will have you behave in most cowardly fashion, avoiding and evading to the best of your character's ability.

Note2: The descriptions are BELOW the initiative post. I meant for it to be the other way around, but I forgot how the blog software works. Durnit. Anyway, make sure you see your competition .

Note3: I won't be changing it on this iteration, but if I run another of these, I may do something about Initiative. You wouldn't believe how many characters with high base Init got screwed by low rolls, and vice versa. Maybe roll d10, or Take 10? I dunno - suggestions welcome.


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## Number47 (Jun 15, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *It's tough to take a crap roll, much less 3 in a row. Given that you now know you got a crap roll, the initiative gamble doesn't look as good. If you'd rolled a 15, 19 and 20, however, you would probably have been quite happy with your decision. From a tactical standpoint, however, initiative is always a gamble, and at least your working for Initiative gauranteed that you aren't going LAST, which is what those rolls would have done to you otherwise. *




Well, just like everything, it was a risk that could have paid off, but no guarantee. By the way, I AM going last! I figured on that for Xiao Hu, anyway.


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## seasong (Jun 15, 2003)

Another note: Next time, no damned cohorts . Or at most, one each. There are _39 individual units_ in this game. So y'all kill each other off, kay?


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Corrected Tairnandon's initiative to 21.


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## Number47 (Jun 16, 2003)

Well, my first turn is sent

Seasong: under 3.5, I don't think there would be as much trouble. A druid (or ranger) would only have one animal companion, period. Of course, even under 3.0, you are only able to take the Leadership feat once by the book. So you opened the door to that problem yourself. The huge number of summons, I don't see what you could've done about that.


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Seasong: under 3.5, I don't think there would be as much trouble. A druid (or ranger) would only have one animal companion, period.



Is the _animal friendship_ spell also being rewritten, then?







> Of course, even under 3.0, you are only able to take the Leadership feat once by the book. So you opened the door to that problem yourself.



There's no rule about that, that I know of?

Anyway, too late now.


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## Number47 (Jun 16, 2003)

Animal Friendship has gotten the boot! Animal companions are now a class feature, the way they should be.

As for Leadership, the default is that you cannot take a feat more than once unless it specifically says so.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 16, 2003)

Seasong; move sent. 

Important note; you forgot the special ioun stones in the description.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 16, 2003)

move sent.

[strategic misdirection] this promises to be a quick start to things, I hope.   

Just doin' what I can to start things out with a bang. [/strategic misdirection]


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

I'm having trouble editting or posting to the blog right now - too many users, apparently . I'll try again later this morning, but here's the essence:

*Quick corrections*

Tairnandon: Initiative is actually 21.

Marius the Weathered: In arena: The shield strapped across his back is now floating a few feet north of him.

Cholestus the Shredder: Two purple ioun stones and one green and purple ioun stone orbit his head.

Master + Blaster: The huge club and crossbow are with _Master_, not Blaster.

Xiao Fung: Has a bat named Fu Lung in his square; the bat alternates between short swoops around Fung and panting on his shoulder. It is squeaking excitedly.

Let me know if there are any others! So far, pretty minor .


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## Number47 (Jun 16, 2003)

I think you said that you were going to mention Fu Lung


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Added to my list of things to add


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## cool hand luke (Jun 16, 2003)

I'm back from vacation, and am wading through tons of stuff.  I'll have my post in by tonight though, glad this thing is still happening.

good luck, and have pity on me!


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Is anyone else having trouble with the blog site?


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## cool hand luke (Jun 16, 2003)

I can't get it to work either.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 16, 2003)

it's working now.


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Okay, I'm putting in a request for help to the Tripod folks. In the meantime, here are the relevant posts:

_Edit: Wow. Those people are FAST. The blog is up and running, huzzah!_


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Okay, I posted the gods' commentary for the prep round . Pretty much pure fluff, but it was fun to write.

Also, regarding actions: the cleaner and more organized your e-mail is, the easier it will be for me to handle your action correctly. Please make my job easy, as I don't want to misinterpret what you are trying to do.

_Edit: Also, if y'all could put [GoD] in your e-mail headers from now on, that would be helpful - I'm getting more mail than usual right now._


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## Saepiroth (Jun 16, 2003)

Oh, yeah; my sheild should be floating about right now, too.


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

What facing?


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## Saepiroth (Jun 16, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *What facing? *



 It wasn't a tower shield, you just had it listed as slung.


\/ \/ \/  \/ \/ \/


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Fixed.


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

I just realized that I forgot to post the Champion Fight monster. Doh!

Anyway, I'm going to post it here, first, so I can field any questions about it and roll those into the description before I post it on the blog page. As with most of the PCs, you won't know the stats about this creature prior to fighting it, but feel free to ask whatever you want.

Reminder: The last gladiator standing may choose to participate in a Champion Fight with Belosphendonê. Victory gains you another +10 points, but the real reason for this fight is to show off (or just to try to climb that last mountain). If the last gladiator chooses to not participate in the Champion Fight, no hard feelings .

The Champion...

*Belosphendonê, daughter of Sthenno and Hethas*

Belosphendonê has the torso and head of a beautiful woman, but her hair is composed of slender, waist-length asps and her lower torso is that of a sea serpent. And though her face is beauteous, her voice is as ugly as Sthenno's visage, and her harsh screams can destroy those she focuses it on. She can never truly die, but she can be beaten (by reducing her to 0 hp), and driven back to Akeros, the river given her by Hethas. Her torso alone is six feet in height, and her tail increases her overall length to nearly forty feet (although in combat she tends to coil up).

She wears an ancient bronze breastplate (over a rich black tunic) and helm, and wields a massive bronze scimitar or, alternately, a darkwood bow with bronze-tipped arrows. A spiked, bronze collar encircles her throat, and a few feet of chain hangs from it (when Sthenno sought to chain her, she broke free). She is wearing a silver circlet on her crown, a pair of rings, a quiver of vicious looking arrows, and a girdle cinching the black tunic at the waist, delicate gloves, and a pair of bracers designed for archery.

Her known traits, according to myth:
- Her flesh is hard as bronze, and only the hardest metals can hurt her
- Her nails are just as hard, and cruelly sharp
- Her scream (or breath) shatters stone and wood, and kills people
- She must focus her scream on a single target, and has limited range
- She is immune to sound effects and poison
- She is difficult to fool, very perceptive, and never sleeps
- The serpents on her head are poisonous, and can attack 10 ft away
- She is more dangerous with the bow than with the scimitar by a hair
- She is slow on dry ground, but swift in water
- She is an 8 HD large aberration with levels of fighter
- She is immune (or at least resistant) to spells
- She fears the good gods, but can not be banished/sent away in this arena
- She is somewhat vulnerable to flattery, but this requires great skill


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## J. Anson (Jun 16, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Her known traits, according to myth:
> ...
> - She is an 8 HD large aberration with levels of fighter
> ...
> *




...or so the legends say.


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Doh! Y'all didn't see that. You saw (waving fingers hypnotically) "She is an aberration of nature, and far tougher than her size indicates. She is a trained warrior."


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## Saepiroth (Jun 16, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Doh! Y'all didn't see that. You saw (waving fingers hypnotically) "She is an aberration of nature, and far tougher than her size indicates. She is a trained warrior." *



 I'm lollin' here, I'm lollin'.

You might want to cut out the three other lines that include precise numbers and/or details.


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## seasong (Jun 16, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> You might want to cut out the three other lines that include precise numbers and/or details.



The only ones I can see are the 10 ft reach for the serpents (which is fine as is - I included it because its visible to your characters) and the "reduce to 0 hp" line (which is also fine - I was qualifying "can not be killed").

And honestly, I'd rather just let everyone see it, than fix it so only a few can. It's not like those specific details are particularly insanely informative.


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## Number47 (Jun 17, 2003)

I would suggest that everyone revisit the races, feats, spells and prestige classes on the rules website, now that you have descriptions of people, a map and initiatives. BTW, how are we on submitted actions, seasong?


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## JDragon (Jun 17, 2003)

Well, my round 1 action went out to both of Seasongs email addresses about 15 min ago.

JDragon


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## reapersaurus (Jun 17, 2003)

Are we still planning on the Tuesday cut-off for actions? What time was that supposed to be?
(I already have mine in - I'm just wondering in case I want to add something in)


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## seasong (Jun 17, 2003)

Roughly eleven and a half hours from this post is the cutoff.

Also, once I start processing actions, I'm about 100% certain that some conflicts will arise between the altered situation and the actions some of y'all sent me, so I'll be sending out requests for clarification sometime tomorrow . I'll be trying to do that in batches, but so far, it doesn't look too bad.

It does look pretty bloody, though. We'll see how that turns out when I start making the rolls .


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## Number47 (Jun 18, 2003)

Could you please revisit the polar bears on your initiative list? You have two As, two Bs, two Cs, one D, one E. Also, they are all described as being either red or blue.

I should have a page up with all the characters and initiative up, with running conditions on them, by end of Wednesday if not sooner. I just need to get the polar bears straight now and spell check.


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## seasong (Jun 18, 2003)

Sorry Number47, I did it to you again .

Here's the Initiatives with your numbering:

From highest to lowest:

reapersaurus (Master) - 33 Init
DM with a vengence (Hagbard the Chartreuse) - 28 Init
Cool hand luke (Antony Grandell) - 27 Init
Jeremy (Osirdar) - 25 Init
reapersaurus (Blaster) - 23 Init
Number47 (Xiao Fung) - 22 Init
Jdragon (Izad) - 22 Init
Tisvon (Rax) - 22 Init
DM with a vengence (Emeldra the Mauve) - 22 Init
Saepiroth (Cholestus the Shredder) - 22 Init
Jeremy (Tairnandon (human)) - 21 Init
Sollir Furryfoot (Rillos) - 20 Init
duder (Mang) - 19 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Cuffles) - 19 Init
Tisvon (Bax) - 18 Init
Cool hand luke (Unth Dirn) - 17 Init
DM with a vengence (Mrs Stampy) - 17 Init
Number47 (Xiao Lung) - 16 Init
Jeremy (Usasmir (half orc)) - 16 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Duffles) - 15 Init
DM with a vengence (Thoramus the Puce) - 14 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Fluffles) - 14 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 1) - 13 Init
duder (Duder) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Buffles) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 7) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Stampy) - 11 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 6) - 10 Init
Cool hand luke (Mortem Redgrave) - 10 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Huffles) - 8 Init
duder (Omigawd) - 7 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Gruffles) - 7 Init
clockworkjoe (Marius the Weathered) - 5 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 8) - 5 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 2) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 3) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 4) - 3 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 5) - 3 Init
Number47 (Xiao Hu) - 1 Init


And here they are by player/character:

clockworkjoe (Marius the Weathered) - 5 Init
Cool hand luke (Antony Grandell) - 27 Init
Cool hand luke (Mortem Redgrave) - 10 Init
Cool hand luke (Unth Dirn) - 17 Init
DM with a vengence (Emeldra the Mauve) - 22 Init
DM with a vengence (Hagbard the Chartreuse) - 28 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Buffles) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Cuffles) - 19 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Duffles) - 15 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Fluffles) - 14 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Gruffles) - 7 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Huffles) - 8 Init
DM with a vengence (Mr Stampy) - 11 Init
DM with a vengence (Mrs Stampy) - 17 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 1) - 13 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 2) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 3) - 4 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 4) - 3 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 5) - 3 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 6) - 10 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 7) - 12 Init
DM with a vengence (Summoned Polar Bear 8) - 5 Init
DM with a vengence (Thoramus the Puce) - 14 Init
duder (Duder) - 12 Init
duder (Mang) - 19 Init
duder (Omigawd) - 7 Init
Jdragon (Izad) - 22 Init
Jeremy (Osirdar) - 25 Init
Jeremy (Tairnandon (human)) - 21 Init
Jeremy (Usasmir (half orc)) - 16 Init
Number47 (Xiao Fung) - 22 Init
Number47 (Xiao Hu) - 1 Init
Number47 (Xiao Lung) - 16 Init
reapersaurus (Blaster) - 23 Init
reapersaurus (Master) - 33 Init
Saepiroth (Cholestus the Shredder) - 22 Init
Sollir Furryfoot (Rillos) - 20 Init
Tisvon (Bax) - 18 Init
Tisvon (Rax) - 22 Init


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## Number47 (Jun 18, 2003)

As a tiger is Large, 10x5, I extended Blaster's icon another square to the south.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 18, 2003)

did you get everyone's moves?


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## seasong (Jun 18, 2003)

The moves I received:

Clockworkjoe
Cool hand luke
DM with a vengence
JDragon
Jeremy
Number47
reapersaurus
Saepiroth

I did not receive round 1 actions from:

duder
Sollir Furryfoot
Tisvon

I am still organizing the actions by initiative - work's been a bit difficult today.


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## Number47 (Jun 19, 2003)

The map page is slightly updated, and has a link at the bottom to the cast page.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *The map page is slightly updated, and has a link at the bottom to the cast page. *




cast page is 404


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## duder (Jun 19, 2003)

was expecting an email asking for first turn, it'll be sent in tomorrow


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## Number47 (Jun 19, 2003)

What, you expected me to actually let _you_ look at the cast page?   Fixed now.


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## seasong (Jun 19, 2003)

duder said:
			
		

> was expecting an email asking for first turn, it'll be sent in tomorrow



Quick pulse check: Do y'all mind me taking the three others late? I _didn't_ send out an e-mail... on the other hand, I just assumed y'all were subscribed to this thread, so there were at least a dozen "update!" e-mails in the past week.

Since this is the very, very first turn of the game, I could go either way.

If we do use their late turn, I'll drop them to the bottom of the initiative, so they don't get in the way of crunching everyone else's turn (keeping their own order, etc.). But that way, they'll do something more interesting than pure defense.

Quick votes?


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## Jeremy (Jun 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *What, you expected me to actually let you look at the cast page?   Fixed now. *




Link?


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## Number47 (Jun 19, 2003)

Oh, definitely take them. First turn is simply too important.

The link to the cast page is on the bottom of the map page. Map page is www.bonniedaws.com/hethas and the cast page is www.bonniedaws.com/hethas/cast.html


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## Jeremy (Jun 19, 2003)

Thanks.  

As I'm just now getting the email notifications of the updates to this thread (and my other threads), I say give them until tonight.

Otherwise, they cower as they were told they would if they missed a deadline.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 19, 2003)

I say take them, no sense in letting this much time and effort go to waste over one slip up.


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## JDragon (Jun 19, 2003)

I say give them a little extra time as the message posted emails seem to have stacked up for some reason.

Also, Number47 thanks for keeping the map up and the status page, very helpful.  


JDragon


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## seasong (Jun 19, 2003)

Okay, so that's 4 in favor of letting them in (of 8 who were on time), so I'll take that as a yes .

For practical reasons, I'll have to stick them at the bottom of the initiative, but for _purposes of being flat-footed_, I will treat them as having gotten their initiative when they did. So they'll have their full AC, AoOs, etc. starting at that point.

All of that sound fair enough?


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## Number47 (Jun 19, 2003)

Sounds good. Technically speaking, they are delaying their initiatives. I further suggest that, if more than one person get their actions in on time, that they go in the order that you now receive them. Give them a little incentive to get a move on.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 19, 2003)

Hey, just so you know, Seasong... I've sacrified my Hotmail address to the Spam Gods. My new, current one is "Saepiroth at saepirothsux dot net".

Just so you can update your addresses before I stop checking that address alltogether.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 19, 2003)

Hi, sorry to chime in late Seasong, but earlier I told Kalanyr to email you my action since I thought I was going to be out of town during Turn 1, can you check back that email to see if he did include the Turn 1 action I sent to him to send to you?


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## seasong (Jun 19, 2003)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> Hi, sorry to chime in late Seasong, but earlier I told Kalanyr to email you my action since I thought I was going to be out of town during Turn 1, can you check back that email to see if he did include the Turn 1 action I sent to him to send to you?



He did indeed. I was searching by known e-mail addresses and by [GoD], neither of which he had, so I missed it.

So you're good.

Also, duder sent me his action, and Tisvon has asked to be dropped, so the ball is officially and completely in my court.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 19, 2003)

I just want to say I will be very surprised if no one takes out some of their frustration from the previous GoD on me.


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## seasong (Jun 19, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> I just want to say I will be very surprised if no one takes out some of their frustration from the previous GoD on me.



Don't worry. If no one else gets you, a Crikey Kobold will appear to steal your items on round 2 

Seriously, though, there are some attacks heading your way, but there are far better reasons for them than a grudge. For one thing, that 5 init makes you one of the safest targets on the board .


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## Number47 (Jun 19, 2003)

Hard to say. You are right in the middle of easy opportunity and have a low initiative on top of that. Would be difficult to resist capitalizing on that no matter who it was. In other words, don't take it personally when all the sneaky types jump on you.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Hard to say. You are right in the middle of easy opportunity and have a low initiative on top of that. Would be difficult to resist capitalizing on that no matter who it was. In other words, don't take it personally when all the sneaky types jump on you. *




i don't take anything personally on the internet very much.  As for my init, as you can see I did not invest that much into a big init bonus, because I felt the advantage of possibly starting earlier would be ofset by the pure randomness of the roll.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 20, 2003)

thought some of you might want to se seasongs incredible creation in the iron dm competition.


http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=955163#post955163


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## Number47 (Jun 20, 2003)

If you could send me any info for mapping in the next hour or two of this post, I have a real slow time at work right now.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 21, 2003)

just wondering if there's an ETA, or a deadline-in-mind for when carnage may ensue, with the detailing of Round 1's events?


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## seasong (Jun 22, 2003)

Quick update: I've finished Init 33-22 (I'm waiting on some move clarifications based on new data from Saepiroth and DM with a vengence).

A few animals have died, but otherwise everyone is still alive at the moment. There were also a few surprises, I think .

One more thing: I will never, ever, ever allow a herd of animals like Hagbard's ever, ever, ever again.


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## seasong (Jun 22, 2003)

Also, quick mapping info (the order below is the order it occurs in):

Remove Rax & Bax: After considering the options, keeping them in the arena just makes my job harder. They no longer exist, nor did they ever .

Master moves to (18,61)

Blaster moves to (7,70) - (7,71)

Polar Bears 1 and 4, and Mr Fluffles are all dead. Mr Cuffles is turned to stone.

There is now a prismatic wall: It is 30 ft high, and stretches in a straight line from the southern face of (19,20) to the southern face of (29,20).

Izad moves _into_ the lake. He is somewhere at the edge of the SE area of the deeper waters, within 10-20 feet of shore.

Cholestus moves to (26,18, +20 ft) (above Xiao Hu)

If you want area effect spells, those will have to wait until I post.


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## Number47 (Jun 22, 2003)

Not posting a new map yet, as there is nothing definite to post.

Dead things are semi-transparent, to indicate that there is still a body there. I removed the summoned monsters, because they would simply disappear. Mr. Cuffles has a solid grey icon, as will all statues or similar.

Prismatic wall: If I am in square 19,20, am I in the wall, or is the _between_ squares 19,20 and 19,21 but in neither?

Izad's exact location, or remove him from the map?

Remove what other icons from the map?


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## seasong (Jun 22, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> Prismatic wall: If I am in square 19,20, am I in the wall, or is the _between_ squares 19,20 and 19,21 but in neither?



If you are in square 19,20, the wall is immediately south of you. If you are in square 19,21, the wall is immediately north of you. It's on the line, but for technical purposes, it is on the south "face" of the 19,20 square.



> Izad's exact location, or remove him from the map?



Whichever you prefer. His exact location is indeterminate through the water, and will become more so as he goes deeper. Anyone who is underwater with him will be able to see where he is just fine, of course.



> Remove what other icons from the map? [/B]



Rax n Bax are the only ones. There have been no disintegrations yet .


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## reapersaurus (Jun 22, 2003)

ahhh, the ole' Fnord'ing of Rax and Bax, eh?

Good work, you guys.

Alas, poor Rax and Bax, I hardly knew ye.... actually, I never knew you at all, it seems.


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## duder (Jun 22, 2003)

Reaper, should I cry before or after you one shot me. Heh Heh


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## Number47 (Jun 22, 2003)

Nobody has been disintegrated, but some people's whereabouts are indeterminate. If most players wouldn't know where someone is, there will be no icon on the map (for that round). Are you sure that, uh, maybe some of the animal icons aren't elsewhere now?


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## seasong (Jun 22, 2003)

Number47: I'm positive on the animals . However, there are some more altered positions, now.

- Cholestus was last seen at the coordinates given above, but he is now obscured from view by a 50 ft radius cloud of black, impenetrable smoke.

- Xiao Lung moves to (22,14)

There's a bunch more than that, as well, but I'm needing clarifications before I can confirm them.

Speaking of which, I sent e-mails for clarification, confirmation or revisions to the following people:

DM with a vengence
Saepiroth (already fixed, thanks)
Clockworkjoe
cool hand luke (mostly just confirmation)


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## Number47 (Jun 22, 2003)

I am drawing all effects at ground-level. What would the radius of the smoke be at the ground?

It looks like I won't be able to make any blow-by-blow maps until you are finished. I will be playing D&D all day today, but might stay up late doing stuff.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 22, 2003)

You know, I've been thinking of writing up some rules specifically designed for GoD type battles between players. Streamline and speed up a few things both for running and playing. Hmm.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 22, 2003)

duder said:
			
		

> *Reaper, should I cry before or after you one shot me. Heh Heh *



I'd suggest Before, After, and During, if that'll help with the pain....


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## seasong (Jun 22, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> I am drawing all effects at ground-level. What would the radius of the smoke be at the ground?



At ground level, the smoke is a cloud 15+ ft up in the air, so there's no smoke on the ground yet.

I've got clockworkjoe's and Saepiroth's clarifications. I still need a Yay or Nay from cool hand luke; and a revision/clarification from DM with a vengence.

Other than CHL and DMWAV, I'm pretty much done. If I get their answers this afternoon, I may have a post up s soon as tonight.

This was, I hope, the worst round .


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## reapersaurus (Jun 22, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Other than CHL and DMWAV, I'm pretty much done. If I get their answers this afternoon, I may have a post up s soon as tonight.
> 
> This was, I hope, the worst round . *



Woo-hoo!
Sounds like great jobs slogging thru it, and I agree that the first round is the toughest - in fact, kind of a Trial by Fire - if a DM can survive intact after the first round of combat, than it bodes well to the completability of the Game as a whole.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 23, 2003)

I wonder if my theme of "sheer unmitigated violence" has even the tiniest chance of outplaying any of the Smackdowns?


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## cool hand luke (Jun 23, 2003)

sent my clarification in  (or at least, my interpretation of the rules)


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## seasong (Jun 23, 2003)

*Cool hand luke:* Got it, thanks. You're good.

*DM with a vengence:* I know you got a cartload of pain in my last request for clarification . Any idea on whether or not you'll have something for me today?

*Saepiroth:* Remember, a proper smackdown only works once in this game. Unmitigated violence, on the other hand, is the gift that keeps on giving.

*Reapersaurus:* No, character creation was Trial by Fire. This is more Trial by Frying Pan. More immediately painful, but fewer longterm scars .


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## seasong (Jun 23, 2003)

Number47, I need a quick correction from you, also. Nothing major - you just tried to say too many words at once for a free action .

_Edit: got it, thanks!_


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## Number47 (Jun 23, 2003)

Staying home from work today, been quite sick. I'm not too sick to make maps, though. Some round-by-round info would be nice if you can get it to me while I have the time. I pretty much need all info that would be visible, mostly moving and visible spells. Or at least get me an idea of how the top of round 2 map will be.


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## Number47 (Jun 23, 2003)

The top of round 1 map now has Rax and Bax eliminated.


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## seasong (Jun 23, 2003)

Just sent you part of it in an e-mail. I really need DM with a vengence to gimme some answers .

I'll see what else I can send you, as well.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 23, 2003)

The problem is that, I'm not sure if some of my characters tricks count as smackdowns or not, ah well, time will tell.


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## seasong (Jun 23, 2003)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> The problem is that, I'm not sure if some of my characters tricks count as smackdowns or not, ah well, time will tell.



Technically, I think the definition is that if it does 200 hp in a single round AND has almost no chance of failure, it is a smackdown. If you average 40 hp per attack, with 5 to hit rolls, that's NOT a smackdown, even if you have to roll a 1 to miss. If you average 200 hp for ONE attack and have to roll a 1 to miss, that IS a smackdown.

For purposes of this GoD, however, I'm mostly concerned with things which make the game less fun... for example, if there's no way for someone to survive or otherwise beat your tactic, it will work against one foe (to let you show off) and then be nerfed.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 24, 2003)

seasong - if we're all just waiting on a player right now, have you decided on any cut-off time?


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

Sorry, didn't post as soon as I got it . I've got DMWAV's turn and am processing it.

Also, I am correcting two small things regarding my previously inaccurate understanding of Cone area effects .


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

Okay, I've got my version of the turn finished. I'm going to try to get the post up sometime today. First, though, I wanted to help y'all help me for next turn .

1) I'll wait 24 hours for clarification. The faster you can get me clarification, however, the happier _everyone_ will be. I'm not worried about it taking DMWAV a little extra this time, because he had a real mess on his hands - 90% of his orders were completely disrupted, and you can imagine what kind of orders he had . But in future, fast turnaround gets you brownie points.

2) I would like to see actions sent to me in the following format (I'm also open to suggestions for improvements to this format):

Put these in the order you want them to occur. If you are going to move, then attack, do a MOVE, then STD; if you are going to attack and then move, do a STD then a MOVE.

If you plan to do A if Y happens, and B if Z happens, include an A and B scheme using the below. Don't include decisions *I* have to make in the MOVE group.

CURRENT EFFECTS: List all current spell effects on you. Don't worry about "always on" items unless you are concerned I might forget, but any spells you've cast on yourself, items you've activated (boots of speed, etc), potions you've drunk, and similar things, are important. Yes, I plan to keep track of it myself, but don't you want to make sure I get your stuff right? .

MOVE: (move, fly, swim, climb) ## ft to (x,y).
- if you have a special route you want to take, give each stage of the route in that format.
- if you are charging, specify this; charge must be a reasonably straight line.
- if it is a double move or full run, specify this.

ME: one move equivalent action

STD: one standard action
- include all bonuses to hit, expected damage, etc. The more explicit you are, the better off I am.
- if casting defensively, specify that and include your Concentration check bonus
- common sense - include your bonuses!

FULL: one full round action

HASTE: one haste-granted partial action that is NOT a move. Use the STD format.

HASTE/MOVE: a haste action used for movement. Use the MOVE format.

FREE: one free action. This includes a quickened spell, 25 words of communication, etc. More than 3 FREE actions, and I may start penalizing you .


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## Saepiroth (Jun 24, 2003)

That's what I was trying to do. 

I wonder if I got shot out of the air despite everything?


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## Jeremy (Jun 24, 2003)

*waits to see if he's a deaf, drooling target or a combatant*


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

Okay, so I was GONNA write up some nice prose for the combat. That is not going to work at all.

So I'm posting the facts, and some flavor text, and I will add the god's commentary afterward.

Also, the deadline will not be 24 hours from the post itself this time. I still have to send you your individual results. So we'll call it 24 hours from midnight, tonight, central standard time.

Expect your individual results over the next several hours .


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## Pielorinho (Jun 24, 2003)

Woot!  High level smack down tastiness!

For those like me who are too dumb to find the game each time without extensive poking around, here's a link to it.  Am I missing an obvious link somewhere, or would this be a handy-dandy thing to have in the first post in the thread?

Daniel


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

*POINT AWARDS*

Xiao Fung killed Polar Bear 4, Mr Cuffles (turned to stone) and Mr Fluffles. Those were all companions, so 3 points total.

Thoramus killed Xiao Hu with flame strike. This was a companion killing a PC, and it was a kill-thief (Cholestus had done most of the killing): 0.5 points for DM with a vengence.

Marius survived assault by four people (Master, Blaster, Unth and Antony) for a full round. He gains 2 points.

Special Awards

Xiao Fung's team _overall_ showed incredible teamwork and precision, maximizing their impact with a great eye towards efficiency. Their prep round and 1st round both showed great economy of motion. Wee Jas awards 1 point - this is the last time an award will be granted for this.

Blaster proved his munchkin design with 192 points of Upside The Head to Marius, and he did it without relying on a smackdown - it required 8 to hit rolls and 8 damage rolls, and some of those 8 couldn't hit if earlier ones missed. Nike was particularly impressed with the fact that Blaster just jumped right out of the gates with a full-on assault. Nike awards 1 point - this is the last time an award will be granted for this.

Marius not only survived an assault by four people, but one of those was the attack that was impressive enough to warrant mention by Nike! He calls himself "the Weathered", and Sif now believes him! Sif awards 1 point - this is the last time an award will be granted for this.

Diddling

The following people diddled, and so received -1 points (being stunned or otherwise unable to "not diddle" does NOT count):

Izad
Rillos
Duder

Totals
Number47: 4 pts
Clockworkjoe: 3 pts
reapersaurus: 1 pts
DM with a vengence: 0.5 pts
JDragon: -1 pts
Sollir Furryfoot: -1 pts
Duder: -1 pts


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> For those like me who are too dumb to find the game each time without extensive poking around, here's a link to it.  Am I missing an obvious link somewhere, or would this be a handy-dandy thing to have in the first post in the thread?



Fixed, thanks!


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## cool hand luke (Jun 24, 2003)

good work seasong.  what a first round!


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## cool hand luke (Jun 24, 2003)

will the map be updated before our moves are due, or should we start mapping out at least our immediate area on our own?


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 24, 2003)

You know, Marius's backstory is simple. He is one of the guards of a temple located in the astral plane. He's not very ambitious or inclined to adventure. It's just that adventurers keep trying to break into his temple so he fights them off. He's called the weathered because he's spent so many years in the temple guarding it.


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## JDragon (Jun 24, 2003)

Very Cool!

I'll have my Round 2 in tonight when I get home from work and have a chance to figure out where to hide next.  

Any ETA on the a map going up with current positions?

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 24, 2003)

Also, I wish I had thought of the simultaneous turn processing thing when I had my GoD. That would have made things a lot simpler.


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

*cool hand luke:* I would bet on mapping out your own area - Number47 is a generous man for giving us his time like that, but he's still human. Well, maybe half-celestial .

*JDragon:* At least wait for me to e-mail you your personalized results . There may be additional info in there for you.

*clockworkjoe:* You were shooting for action by action excitement. I was shooting for as much GM-time-compression as possible! Slightly different goals, that require different approaches.


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## JDragon (Jun 24, 2003)

Seasong - sounds good, thanks for the reminder that I would have that email coming.

JDragon


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## duder (Jun 24, 2003)

bleh, so I wasn't targeted as I had thought.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 24, 2003)

I also wish I had thought of concealing every active spell the way you did. Oh well, hindsight is 20/20.


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

DM with a vengence - I sent you your custom results and did not copy myself. Could you please forward that back to me?


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

Forgot to put this in the post: Marius put an ioun stone around his head right before he healed. It was purple.

Didn't mean for that to seem as mysterious as it was taken as.


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## seasong (Jun 24, 2003)

Got a bunch of questions in the middle of sending e-mails. Please post here if you didn't get an e-mail from me.

-seasong


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## cool hand luke (Jun 24, 2003)

I will pay $1 per email with questions the participants send during the next 24 hours, in order to divert the good seasong from the iron dm competition.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 24, 2003)

cool hand luke said:
			
		

> *I will pay $1 per email with questions the participants send during the next 24 hours, in order to divert the good seasong from the iron dm competition. *



You owe me $4, then already.  

seasong has earned half of that (at least) answering my questions so far.

Initial impressions: 
Incredible action, awesome work.

small nit: it's hard to tell what happened, and harder to add up what actions were taken and how they were accomplished, due to the format in which the actions were presented (results, mostly).

Also, rules changes are bound to happen mid-game, and I'm OK with that, even if I got hit with 2 whoppers (Horn of Blasting nerf and AMF range nerf), combined with a mistake of Reach on my part, and truly horrendous rolls, all combining to allow Marius to survive.

Having stated that, I wholeheartedly applaud seasong on the way he's running this GoD, and cheer all the carnage that happened this round.

seasong - would you want to specify the AMF ruling for all, like you did the Horn, or leave it not specified?

clockwork - Bravo on the escape - I thought I had you dead to rights.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 24, 2003)

I don't think making the horn of blasting blockable by certain things is really nerfing it, as the horn is currently written, it's unbalanced. An 11k magic item that can stop anyone in their tracks without anyway of countering it isn't exactly balanced.
Even with seasong's current ruling, it is quite strong.


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## Jeremy (Jun 24, 2003)

*drools for the all important first round*

*but thinking*  _What clockwork said..._


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## reapersaurus (Jun 24, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I don't think making the horn of blasting blockable by certain things is really nerfing it, as the horn is currently written, it's unbalanced. An 11k magic item that can stop anyone in their tracks without anyway of countering it isn't exactly balanced.
> Even with seasong's current ruling, it is quite strong. *



I agree, about the Horn.

It is a nerf.

edit in: I only had a couple seconds before....
I'm agreeing that the Horn of Blasting should be nerfed. I think it's unbalanced as written, and welcome any change to make me feel less dirty while using it.
However, I would be not trying my best if I didn't have Master slam all on the left center of the map with it, after working to get that high of Init to start with.   
Wouldn't you all agree 

I just wish the nerf would have been done earlier, during the weeks (months) of pre-fight nerfing.
It made for an inexplicably nasty AoO to be suffered by Blaster.

And Master just will not tolerate any suffering of Blaster....   

He's his frrrrriiieeeeeeend.


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## Jeremy (Jun 25, 2003)

Where did Marius move to by the way?


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## Number47 (Jun 25, 2003)

Well, I'm not an expert on SR or spell immunity, but I think that stating that the Horn does not extend into an AMF is not a nerf, just a statement of fact. There is no way a magical effect like that can penetrate. The other two, however, I am not sure if those are nerfs or not.


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## Jeremy (Jun 25, 2003)

Not that it's important but I can see it going either way.  If the horn were in the field it definately wouldn't work, but for the duration of the cone it could just be that the magical horn made enough non magical sound to have it's effects.  *shrugs*


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## reapersaurus (Jun 25, 2003)

i'm really fine with the Horn being nerfed - it's just the timing is all.

And the Horn not penetrating an AMF isn't a nerf - of course not.
It's only the SR and Spell Immunity that is.

But enough about nerfs in-game....  what about that action?

Did any actions catch your eye?
I thought the Prismatic Rays being splayed about like sparklers would have been an impressive display....  
I loved the flavor text about all the animals - that had me rolling ("Not Stampy-size, but still big...")


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## Jeremy (Jun 25, 2003)

The insane bears cracked me up.  

I also particularly like the level of round one mayhem.  But next time, my characters are buying ear plugs!


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

*The horn of blasting:* Just so we're all clear - this IS a nerf and it is ALSO a rules interpretation. It came up when the horn hit someone with one of the mentioned abilities (SR, spell immunity, etc.) and I said to myself, "Uh, does that work or doesn't it?"

So I spent about half an hour contributing to my near-sightedness reading the rules that don't really give a good indication one way or the other. The horn of blasting is very similar to spell (but slightly more powerful) and SR is stated to only not work against (Su) abilities (which the horn isn't) and enhancement bonuses (which the horn also isn't).

At the same time, the horn repeatedly uses the word "spell-like effects" which is very poorly defined: "A special ability with effects that resemble those of a spell." Thanks, WotC, that was ^&%ing helpful.

So I made a judgement call, and I erred on the side of "I don't want stuff with NO defenses".

The timing on this was poor - when I was looking at reapersaurus' equipment, I'd forgotten that anyone in the game had one of those abilities.

More comments coming...


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> small nit: it's hard to tell what happened, and harder to add up what actions were taken and how they were accomplished, due to the format in which the actions were presented (results, mostly).



I am now officially soliciting feedback . How can I format the stuff to be more readable to people other than myself? 

I may not do it, if it takes too much time, but I will give some effort to making things understandable. And I'll answer questions here.



> Also, rules changes are bound to happen mid-game, and I'm OK with that, even if I got hit with 2 whoppers (Horn of Blasting nerf and AMF range nerf), combined with a mistake of Reach on my part, and truly horrendous rolls, all combining to allow Marius to survive.



I'll discuss the AMF thing in a moment, and I can't comment on the survivability of Marius, other than to say I would have bet on his 1st round survival in any case, but I'm not making any bets on his 2nd .



> clockwork - Bravo on the escape - I thought I had you dead to rights.



You BOTH earned those points I gave you.


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

*AMF Range:* This is not a nerf - it is a strict interpretation of the rules. It is, however, _different_ from how it is often run in looser games. The essence is this:

1) A tiger is 10 ft by 5 ft. (This was apparently different in clockworkjoe's game?)

2) AMF is a 10 ft radius, and is centered on the target. If the target is larger than the AMF, the spell description states that parts of the target will be outside of the AMF.

3) A tiger with an AMF has the field extend 5 ft ahead and behind, and 7 1/2 ft to either side. I've attached a zipped PDF showing my visualization of it.

Like I said, this isn't a nerf. This is the rules. My core references were PHB p.175 (_antimagic field_), PHB p.149 (Area effects), and DMG p.68-69 (area spells). The tiger is in the MM I, of course .


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

Okay, two last topics before I go to bed .

1) I'm extending the deadline on this particular round, for two reasons. One, I'm playing in this Iron DM tournament and so is cool hand luke... against me. It would be pretty unfair of me to use my GoD deadline to pressure him to do two things at once, and even if I don't MEAN to, I'd rather keep things on the up-n-up. Secondly, I honestly won't have time until this weekend to go over y'all's actions, so making you send it in earlier than that achieves nothing. So the deadline for this round will be Friday (as long as it's still Friday when you send it to me, we're good).

2) I'm thinking of changing it from 24 hours to 48 hours anyway. I've had a couple of folks asking about the time already, particularly in light of work weeks, and if it will help me run a smoother game if y'all have time to make your actions referee-readable, I'm all for it. I don't want to give more than that, though, because at a certain point, months begin to pass between rounds  (joke, it's a JOKE). Anyway, I'd like some comments or thoughts, and how y'all would feel about it?


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## reapersaurus (Jun 25, 2003)

re: the AMF range

I understand that you're not making up the references, seasong.
I've just never seen a 10' radius detailed this way.

In clockwork's GoD, Maturak was Large, but (probably for ease of mapping) he had the typical 
0XXX0
XXXXX
XXMXX
XXXXX
0XXX0

M is Maturak, X is the squares that the AMF covers, 0 is uncovered squares (the diagonals).

The way you have it, Blaster actually has less squares covered, since you've centered the 10' radius on the LINE between his 2 squares.
This might be technically and mathmatically correct, but I don't think 3E uses that convention when determining what squares are affected by a radius effect.

You have it like:
00000
0XXX0
XXBXX
XXBXX
0XXX0
00000

Where B is Blaster.
I think that's what you're saying....  the pdf doc you attached has lines that intersect squares, so it's hard to tell.
What squares are you saying would be in Blaster's AMF?


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## Number47 (Jun 25, 2003)

Regarding the AMF, the DMG (page 69) defines using emanations in a not-intuitive way. It would be:

0XX0
X12X
X34X
0XX0

Where the field covers the Xs and numbers, and your character would be in a numbered square. That means that if you are in square 1, the field extends far more to the se than the nw. So seasong's way isn't too far off.

The full collection of maps for round 1 are posted. Follow the link on the hethas website page or www.bonniedaws.com/hethas and use the links at the bottom to navigate. These take up a bit of room, so unless somebody else hosts them, I don't think I can keep all maps from every round up. After round 2, all initiative maps from round 1 will go bye-bye.

There are some things that might be wrong or a little out of whack, and some things will probably change a little as we petition/remind seasong of things he mighta forgot. Doesn't matter. Probably not gonna change these maps. Boatload of work! They're close enough.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 25, 2003)

wow.
Those are very impressive maps, 47 - that's excellent work, and it really helps to illustrate the action.

That must have taken quite some time - that's above and beyond the call.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 25, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> * www.bonniedaws.com/hethas *



 AWESOME. JUST AWESOME.


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## whydirt (Jun 25, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * AWESOME. JUST AWESOME. *



i c u


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## Saepiroth (Jun 25, 2003)

whydirt said:
			
		

> *i c u *



 Sup


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## whydirt (Jun 25, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * Sup  *



Sup man.  I'm about to go to bed, but I was just cruising through the Enworld boards one last time.

ps-do you think i can claim this thread for FYAD?


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## Saepiroth (Jun 25, 2003)

whydirt said:
			
		

> *ps-do you think i can claim this thread for FYAD? *



 I think you'll be banned, slandered, and hunted down by geeks wielding explosive dee-twenties.


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> This might be technically and mathmatically correct, but I don't think 3E uses that convention when determining what squares are affected by a radius effect.



See Number47's comment and p.68-69 of the DMG.



> I think that's what you're saying....  the pdf doc you attached has lines that intersect squares, so it's hard to tell.



Squares that are 1/2 intersected are affected normally, although that's an imprecise rounding off .


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## cool hand luke (Jun 25, 2003)

incredible work on the maps.  I was just thinking you'd do one per round!


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## Jeremy (Jun 25, 2003)

I tried the link from both places, but I just keep getting the Init 99 map with the links at the bottom non-functional (read, not links).  I've tried refreshing but I still don't get anything.  Anyone else unable to see the maps?


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

I would like to second the awe at the maps. And also... that looks like a LOT of work, so please don't feel like you have any obligation to do this for everyone. We appreciate it, but if it comes down to having time for your own turn and getting out a map... well, let 'em eat their own cake .

A few corrections:

1) The Xiao team's _ice storm_ and _fireball_ hit Mr Duffles, for 12 and 18 pts of damage, respectively. Mr Duffles remains quite alive, however.

2) The _flame strike_ did NOT strike Xiao Lung. He had already moved. Xiao Lung is completely undamaged at this point.

3) Polar Bear 6 could not have made its charge at Xiao Fung - this would have had it running straight through the melee between Polar Bear 5 and Mr Gruffles. When I originally ran the turn, PB6 moved prior to PB5, so it wasn't technically a melee, but PB5 WAS hostile at that point (see below). I just forgot. So Xiao Fung was not attacked and is not in melee. PB6 will be attacking PB5 to help Mr Gruffles, instead, using the same rolls (total 51 dmg, PB5 is grappled by PB6).

4) Polar Bear 1 is at (18,14)-(21,15). Mr Duffles is at ((19,12)-(22,13). No rolls or AoOs were changed as a result of this.

5) Fu Lung (Xiao Fung's bat) took NO DAMAGE from the flame strike.

Note: I'm not out to screw Number47 or DMWAV, but the interactions between the two of them (especially movements and area effects) were the most complicated in the game (the second most complicated was Marius vs Blaster, believe it or not ).

A quick clarification movement:

For purposes of the grid, two allied creatures which are more than one square wide can overlap temporarily at their outermost squares, as long as it is during movement and they don't end the round that way.


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## karash (Jun 25, 2003)

*the map*

Hey guys - I'm yet another "fan" following your actions.  Looks great.  

Number47 - Can you please tell me how you are creating the maps?  I'd like to do something like this with some friends of mine and they look great.  Thanks.

Also, is Seasong doing all the rolls himself or is there some method you guys are using?


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## J. Anson (Jun 25, 2003)

*a little confused*

Just so I understand, Xiao Hu was the PC, but his death does not mean the end of the Xiao family team, meaning that they could still theoretically win?

I can sort of see reasoning that everybody is already dead, and so on, I'm just curious.


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## Number47 (Jun 25, 2003)

Xiao Hu was a cohort, actually. Xiao Fung is the main PC (you can tell by the huge amount of smack he laid).

I do all the maps in Photoshop and move everything around on its' own little layer. All the icons are type ornaments, for ease.


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

*Re: the map*



			
				karash said:
			
		

> Also, is Seasong doing all the rolls himself or is there some method you guys are using?



I roll 'em.

Xiao Fung is the PC.

If the PC dies, companions continue fighting and can still earn points for you, however, you will not gain points for being the last gladiator standing, nor will you be eligible to participate in the championship fight (both of which are worth 10 pts).

Also, companions earn significantly fewer points for anything they do.


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

As promised, corrected the Round actions, and posted the Gods' commentary.


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## Number47 (Jun 25, 2003)

That just really feels right, because I think Wee Jas really is closest in terms of outlook to the Xiao family. I will please her even more, now.


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

Glad you liked it .


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## Jeremy (Jun 25, 2003)

Can't view the maps at work, but can at home.  Great job on them!

Sent in a corrected turn now that I know where people actually are.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 25, 2003)

I looked closer, and I'd like to retract my statement that the AMF's radius was nerfed.

I was using the experience from clockwork's GoD as a background understanding of the way AMF was going to be played, and that's not applicable here.

seasong - you not only didn't nerf the AMF range, I think you are interpreting it absolutely correctly.
I'm sorry for calling it a nerf - I am combatting with Victim (Maturak, with his AMF) in a challenge in Fight Club, and I had that as a background example in mind when thinking your way was nerfing it:
it's not, it's just different than AMF has been run up to now.

The Horn nerf and your sucky rolls, however, are screwing me over.  
just kidding.
The Horn I agree with, and the rolls are rolls - I might get lucky in a later round.

I'll tell you who got the shaft - Mr. Stampy, that's who!
The indigo ray turning him into a pot-head who loves grass is just wrong.


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## seasong (Jun 25, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> I looked closer, and I'd like to retract my statement that the AMF's radius was nerfed.



No prob. I'd rather discuss it and get at the truth (even in those times I'm wrong), and you were polite about it the entire time, so we're totally .



> it's not, it's just different than AMF has been run up to now.



That's kind of what I thought - area effects in D&D 3e are not wholly intuitive.



> The Horn nerf and your sucky rolls, however, are screwing me over.
> just kidding.
> The Horn I agree with, and the rolls are rolls - I might get lucky in a later round.



Heck, even with sucky rolls, you did major smack.



> I'll tell you who got the shaft - Mr. Stampy, that's who!
> The indigo ray turning him into a pot-head who loves grass is just wrong.



You gotta love _insanity_.


----------



## Number47 (Jun 26, 2003)

Finally got my turn in. Everybody else in?


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## green slime (Jun 26, 2003)

Hi all.

Not that it has anything to do with me, and not that I'd be trying to ruin your game, I just thought I'd post the stats for the Horn of Blasting that was discussed about.



> From the SRD
> *Horn of Blasting:* This horn appears to be a normal trumpet. It can be sounded as a normal horn, but if the command word is spoken and the instrument is then played, it has the following effects, both of which happen at once:
> 
> A 100-foot cone of sound issues forth from the horn. All within this area must make a Fortitude saving throw (DC 16). Those who succeed are stunned for 1 round and deafened for 2 rounds. Those failing the saving throw take 1d10 points of damage, are stunned for 2 rounds, and are deafened for 4 rounds.
> ...




seasong's ruling about AMF seems to me to be a good and balanced one. Ditto SR. Spell Immunity even that. It still seems underpriced. IS there anything that grants immunity to "stun", apart from that Sohei ability (I can't remember what it is called)? 

Strange that Sonic Resistance is of no use whatsoever...

The map has certainly altered in just one round!


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Re: Horn of Blasting & AMF Radius: I consider these topics closed now .

However, I do have a ruling I'm not so sure on, and I thought I would solicit some feedback. I've already rule-0'd it for purposes of round 1, but I wanted to 'fess up and make sure I get it right next time.

Here's the situation: You make a double move in a charge. You use your one charge attack to grapple (for the moment, we'll ignore complications like getting multiple attacks in a charge).

Charge _stops_ movement when you arrive at the person. A successful grapple _requires_ you to move into the target's square, but does _not_ provide the movement to do so (you have to use your normal movement to maintain the grapple).

My questions:

1) Should the attacker be allowed a 5 ft step into the target's square?

2) Or alternately, should the attacker be allowed to maintain the grapple, even though he didn't move into the target's square?

I'm going to go with at least one of these two options. I don't like the fact that the rules, as written, prevent charging grapples (which, considering that you _can_ do a charging _trip_, doesn't make much sense).

I'm inclined to the second option, because I do grappling as a hobby, and I've done a lot of grappling in separate squares. But D&D's not about realism, so I'd like to hear some preferences and arguments for either side you like better. And if you have arguments that BOTH options should be used, I'll listen to that too .

Like I said, I already rule-0'd it for round 1, as I don't want to mess with round 1 until I grow old . But I want to make sure I've got a good ruling for the future.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 26, 2003)

that made my head hurt, but then again, most rules discussions do.  I don't care one way or the other, they both seem fine to me.

logically, it seems like you should be able to charge, then grapple (it's called tackling! happens farily often)


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## Saepiroth (Jun 26, 2003)

I would think you'd have to end your move in your target's square to do a charging grapple, with all the troubles for you that that involves.


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## JDragon (Jun 26, 2003)

I'm up fpr which ever way you want to play it Seasong, but thank you for putting it up to disscussion.

Also - my round 2 was sent just moments ago.     Took me longer than I expected to find my next hiding spot.  

JDragon

-1 points and counting


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 26, 2003)

But wouldn't that be negated if the target made an AoO on the charger since any grappling attempt is stopped by a successful AoO?


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> I would think you'd have to end your move in your target's square to do a charging grapple, with all the troubles for you that that involves.



The problem is that strictly by the rules, a charge ends when you are adjacent to the target. Or are you suggesting that I allow ending a move in the target's square?

In order to have a sensible rule for a charging grapple, I will have to change the rule in some fashion - I'm just asking in what way would be best.


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> But wouldn't that be negated if the target made an AoO on the charger since any grappling attempt is stopped by a successful AoO?



I'm asking about a generic situation wherein that did not occur.

However, to answer your question:

"A character provokes an attack of opportunity from the target the character is trying to grapple. If the attack of opportunity deals the character damage, the character fails to start the grapple. "

This applies only to the AoO that comes from initiating a grapple. Improved grab and similar things prevent this. An AoO brought about by the charge does not stop the charge, and it does not prevent an attempt at the end of the charge to grapple.


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## Number47 (Jun 26, 2003)

No matter. However, I would find grappling to be distinct from improved grab (the creature ability). With improved grab, I believe the creature can pull the target into his own space. That would also be a good rule for a larger vs. smaller grappler, but in rd. 1 they were both large anyways.


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## green slime (Jun 26, 2003)

Hello again.

I'd rule, that a "charge to grapple" ends in the square of the opponent, IF the AoO was unsuccessful, and the grapple was successfully made.

If the AoO was successful, or the grapple failed, then I'd have the grappler adjacent.

*see below*


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## DM with a vengence (Jun 26, 2003)

Hello all, just sent in my move, because I was out of the loop for a couple of days, but wow!

Number 47, I can _almost_ forgive you for totally FUBARizing my army because those maps are friggin amazing.  Of course I'll still have to take it out of you in blood.  

This looks like a really good battle so far, and major props (and all tha tother hip-hop stuff) to seasong and Number 47.

Here's to round 2!


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## green slime (Jun 26, 2003)

BTW, charging does not cause an AoO (PHB, page 122). Movement may do so, IF you move through the threatened area of a the creature charged (like, if it had reach).

Of course, that AoO would be negated by Spring Attack, or Tumble (Tumbling charge to grapple?!?)

Don't you just love these simple rules 

Charging always FEELS like it should cause an AoO. But, alas no.

If you break it down perhaps it is clearer:

Charge up to opponent (No AoO, unless opponent has reach)
Start grapple (AoO)
Grab (melee touch, +2 for charge)
Hold (opposed grapple check)
Move In (AoO, but NOT from your target)


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## Number47 (Jun 26, 2003)

This actually would've had some real consequences in the first round. If the grapplers were occupying the same space (per grappling rules), then the attacks on Marius would've had a 50/50 chance of targetting Blaster instead.

By the way, seasong, what type of grappling? I did aikido for a year before my sensai went out of business.


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> This actually would've had some real consequences in the first round. If the grapplers were occupying the same space (per grappling rules), then the attacks on Marius would've had a 50/50 chance of targetting Blaster instead.



Yes, the consequence would have been that Blaster would (50% chance) have taken some extra damage, and Marius's 5 ft step would not have gotten him far enough to heal.

Like I said, though, I'm not revisiting it in round 1. I'm just putting together a better ruling for the future.



> By the way, seasong, what type of grappling? I did aikido for a year before my sensai went out of business.



No particular type, although I have a friend who does a lot of aikido. I have some friends who do MMA, but they won't spar with me very much. My brother does MMA with emphasis on the first M, so we sometimes go at it, and I have another friend who does it for exercise.

My original start in it was in wrestling class at Jr High PE, and I've done it off and on ever since. Not good (or dedicated) enough for pro, but pretty adequate for amateur.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 26, 2003)

yall should check out

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?threadid=53894&goto=newpost

for seasongs latest iron dm masterpiece.


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## J. Anson (Jun 26, 2003)

green slime said:
			
		

> *I'd rule, that a "charge to grapple" ends in the square of the opponent, IF the AoO was unsuccessful, and the grapple was successfully made.
> 
> If the AoO was successful, or the grapple failed, then I'd have the grappler adjacent.*




This makes the most sense to me, too; I failed attempt at a running tackle (charging grapple) seems like it would end either because the attacker was forced to stop by being hit, or by being knocked aside, etc.


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## J. Anson (Jun 26, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *My brother does MMA with emphasis on the first M, so we sometimes go at it, and I have another friend who does it for exercise.*




Don't forget, I'll be there in two weeks...


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *This actually would've had some real consequences in the first round. If the grapplers were occupying the same space (per grappling rules), then the attacks on Marius would've had a 50/50 chance of targetting Blaster instead.*



The real consequence on the 1st round would have been that Marius wouldn't have gotten out of the AMF, and not been healed (and be soon dead, natch).

But I didn't realize that until seasong had already done all the great work on the god's commentaries, so we just have to decide what to do for later rounds.

[my opinion]
I feel we should do it by the rules.
And the rules clearly (IMO) state that when you grapple and Hold, there is a Move in phase where there is 5' of movement by the grappler.
Normal movement rules do not apply to this 5' slide, since if they did, there's a huge rules hole and no grapple could ever take place. That is most likely not what the designers intended.

After provoking an AoO, requiring a successful grab attack, then requiring a successful opposed grapple check, I guess they're saying 5' of movement isn't out of hand. Interesting that the 5' movement is outside of the normal movement parameters, but having the combatants be in the same square for grappling makes classic sense to me.

I view it as all part of one movement - the charge in, the Trip, the slashes of claws before a Bite which enters into a grapple.

Of course, with Improved Grab, the defender gets pulled into the grappler's square... which similarly could violate the movement restrictions on the defender that turn (i.e. what if the defender had already 5' moved in a full attack that turn?)


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> The real consequence on the 1st round would have been that Marius wouldn't have gotten out of the AMF, and not been healed (and be soon dead, natch).



See my post - I outlined the results fairly thoroughly .

And Marius would have survived the 1st round either way. The only question is how well he would survive the second round.



> [my opinion]
> I feel we should do it by the rules.
> And the rules clearly (IMO) state that when you grapple and Hold, there is a Move in phase where there is 5' of movement by the grappler.
> Normal movement rules do not apply to this 5' slide, since if they did, there's a huge rules hole and no grapple could ever take place. That is most likely not what the designers intended.



This is exactly what I said - that there is a huge rules hole .

Grapple does NOT provide movement. It does not provide a "move in phase". It does not provide any method or manner of meeting its own requirements.

Common sense dictates that it SHOULD, but doing it strictly by the rules, it DOES NOT. My question, primarily, is what house rule should we implement to make the rules sensible again.


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## Jeremy (Jun 26, 2003)

Normally the touch attack, attack of opportunity, chance to negate the grapple in addition to damage, grapple check to avoid, and necessity to have another attack to actually do anything with the grapple (pin, damage, whatever) balances it enough that I allow a move then a grapple (a walking grab or tackle or bear hug isn't any different than a standing one).  It has quite enough disadvantages to balance it.

As for a situation where it's a huge beasty with huge base attack and size mods to grapple and teeth and claws...  If you get grappled by it, it's your own fault.  

That's what winged boots and bows are for.  

1 sounds good enough to me.


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

It seems the leaning is to allow the 5 ft move as part of a successful grapple check, yes? I've got no probs with that, so unless there's anyone violently opposed to it, I'll go with it.

It won't impact round 1, but moving forward it will. Which, since Blaster is going very high in the initiative next round, could get very ugly .

Mmmm... Hethas will be pleased.


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## Pielorinho (Jun 26, 2003)

I've never heard of anyone playing it that a person can't charge and grapple.  I've also never heard of anyone ruling that in order to move and then grapple, you'd have to have spring attack.

My interpretation has always been that the "move into the opponent's square" portion of the grapple attempt has nothing to do with a Move Action, a 5' Step, or any other type of movement defined in the game.  It's a free repositioning granted by virtue of having made a successful grapple attempt.  Although this repositioning provokes AoOs if the grappler has otherwised moved during the round, it is mostly _sui generis_, unrelated to other forms of movement.

That's how this peanut-gallery-member would rule it, anyway.  I think the moving-into-the-opponent's-square part of the grapple is far more important than considering the "move-in" portion of the grapple to be normal movement and thereby not allowed in charges, move-grapples, and the like.

Daniel

[edit:  looks like Seasong's already ruled the way I was arguing, so this spectator's voice doesn't make much difference.  One more issue, though, that you may want to be clear on ahead of time:  will this ruling allow someone in rare circumstances to squeeze an extra 5' movement out of a charge, by charging 60' and then grappling someone? I'd suggest yes, just to keep it simple.]


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## Number47 (Jun 26, 2003)

The other consideration is how to handle it with even bigger creatures. What happens when a huge polar bear grapples a huge polar bear. Do all theire squares align? What if one was horizontally oriented and the other vertically? It seems that "five foot move" could become a twenty foot move.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 26, 2003)

I just wanted to say I don't really care either way. I made Marius in a few hours, which was mostly spent on picking magic items, and my position was pretty bad to begin with anyway. In hindsight, I should have made an emergency get out jail free plan , but I just threw him together using bare bones concepts. I kinda wish WOTC splatbooks were allowed because large and in charge would have been useful.


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## Number47 (Jun 26, 2003)

I hope you at least get to do some damage before you go. Heck, I hope you all team up and smack up Blaster, but that's just because I personally don't like the AMF builds.


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47: You are going to make me cry . Uh... nope, 5 ft move only. Their edges will overlap. There. Fixed .

clockworkjoe: It is kind of an ugly situation. But the splatbooks would have just escalated the exploits - you'd have LAIC, and reapersaurus would have the Shield Monster or something worse...


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

Daniel!
Cool to hear you're following along - did you ever think of entering a character into the Game?

Holy crud, I'll echo you on that one, clockwork!
There are a few tasty feats and such that would GREATLY magnify the power of my build, as well.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47 : I just thought of something - could you maybe put a link to each map on the first page of the maps?
So there'd be a small table that has direct links to each of the initiatives? It'd make it easier to navigate, especially if you don't want to have to click "Next Map" 16 times to get to Initiative 5, or something.

Everyone - 
What are your thoughts about the amount of information we should know about the opponents' rolls?
I like the no Status info being revealed - it greatly ups the scary factor - but I'm of the impression that we should know our opponents' rolls. I thought that was a good move by clockwork to list the natural rolls. If we were all face-to-face in a Gladiator tabletop competition, we would see what each other rolled, and could use how much they beat us by to help zero in on what bonuses our opponents have.

It makes sense combat-wise, too : After awhile of combat, you should start to get a feel for the skill of your opponent, etc.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I hope you at least get to do some damage before you go. Heck, I hope you all team up and smack up Blaster, but that's just because I personally don't like the AMF builds. *




so do i. I just hope lycanthropes don't get DR in the AMF since that's what reaper has to be to change shapes in an AMF. 

Also, I just wanted large and in charge. Oh well. I probably should have asked for it but I just decided to make a character with the base rules.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *so do i. I just hope lycanthropes don't get DR in the AMF since that's what reaper has to be to change shapes in an AMF.
> 
> Also, I just wanted large and in charge. Oh well. I probably should have asked for it but I just decided to make a character with the base rules. *



Lycanthrope's DR is EX.  

I totally understand seasong having to limit it at some point - and his one overriding mantra was that he wanted to be able to publish all the feats used, so they had to be OGL.

Man, could you imagine the nastiness If Blaster could have Flying Kick from OA?


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I hope you at least get to do some damage before you go. Heck, I hope you all team up and smack up Blaster, but that's just because I personally don't like the AMF builds. *



just to follow in kind, I hope someone tramples the Xiao clan, cause I don't like high-level spellcaster builds.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 26, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *so do i. I just hope lycanthropes don't get DR in the AMF since that's what reaper has to be to change shapes in an AMF. *



 Huh. You know, somehow I feel a bit funny about Lycanthropes being able to transform while under an AMF... Oh well.

...

I'd like to see basic rolls, but considering that Seasong is enforcing line-of-sight rules and actions, I think it's a lot better if we all have to live in terror of the final numbers that come out. (192? _AIEEEEEEEE!!!_)

...

Hey, Seasong... are the "dirty duo" inherently magical? By which I mean, are the powers of Soverign Glue and Universal Solvent suppressed in a AMF?


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Lycanthropic DR works in an AMF. Most DR does not.


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> Huh. You know, somehow I feel a bit funny about Lycanthropes being able to transform while under an AMF... Oh well.



Don't forget that order of events applies during the prep round. The AMF would have to have been cast AFTER the transformation; and the lycanthrope would then be unable to turn back.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 26, 2003)

which considering magical weapons don't work in an AMF and i would be very surprised if anyone took silver weapons it means that it's going to be very hard for anyone to kill reaper if not impossible.


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## seasong (Jun 26, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> Hey, Seasong... are the "dirty duo" inherently magical? By which I mean, are the powers of Soverign Glue and Universal Solvent suppressed in a AMF?



Ew.... uh, yes.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *which considering magical weapons don't work in an AMF and i would be very surprised if anyone took silver weapons it means that it's going to be very hard for anyone to kill reaper if not impossible. *



I'll volunteer this much - Blaster has some fashionable silver "Brass Knuckles" on, if you want to have Marius attempt to disarm him of them.  

And I'd appreciate if you kept the references about the characters, not about the players, clockwork.
I'm trying to have Blaster kill your character (Marius) not you.
thanks.

So Seap votes for revealing the natural rolls : that's 2 votes yes.
Any others?


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## green slime (Jun 26, 2003)

quoted myself, instead of editting. Sorry. *see below*


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## green slime (Jun 26, 2003)

Umm.... seasong, may I ask a question?

Looking under Damage Reduction in MM (page 9), it is listed as (su), and it even talks about werewolves... (obviously just a mirage as it lists it as (ex) in the lycanthrope section.

So I was wondering if this was explained in a FAQ or something? I'm not questioning your judgement, just curious. I think it is a good call.

And in the Lycanthrope section, Alternate Form is listed as (su) and so should be repressed in an AMF (as _polymorph self_ would be)? Sorry reaper, just reading the book...


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## Saepiroth (Jun 26, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *So Seap votes for revealing the natural rolls : that's 2 votes yes.
> Any others? *



 No I didn't. I said I'd like it for strategizing, but this way is a lot more fun.



			
				seasong said:
			
		

> *Ew.... uh, yes. *



 Oh, _great_... 

That's one dirty trick for removing Blaster off the list.


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## Number47 (Jun 26, 2003)

Now that we know Blaster is in an AMF, it opens up the huge rules mistake. Blaster cannot be in an alternate form inside an AMF. Supernatural ability. Not sure how you want to make this right? I, for one, will scream long and loud if someone gets the advantage to use supernatural abilities inside an AMF. That is one advantage too far and the build is already exceedingly powerful.

Natural rolls: seasong is gonna run it the way he's gonna run it. Just as long as I'm sure he tells me that he added in all MY bonuses, I'm good. Also, it would mean that my spellcasters can be more sure of whether certain spells had an effect or didn't.


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## reapersaurus (Jun 26, 2003)

Number47 : it's not a rules mistake.
This has already been gone over, months ago.

My personal opinion is that the Alternate Form ability is Su - that is, the ability to shift forms.
Alternate, as in the verb "alterNATE".
And Blaster was not in the AMF when he shifted.
But seasong also said that "Official ruling, right or wrong, is that the form is not Su, and is not affected by the AMF."

Since now 47 has said "That is one advantage too far and the build is already exceedingly powerful," I'd prefer if this kind of biased attacking of my character builds would stop.

Nobody seems to have a problem with the things that were not included which would have made my character more powerful.
I don't see you pointing out that Blaster (a Large Half-Ogre) could easily have been considered a Huge Weretiger upon adopting the template (the same way the Monster Manual FAQ details a ghoul template as doing).
I don't see anyone pointing out how his claw attacks should be doing 2d8 damage (3d8 if Huge), like the rules now provide for....
I don't see anyone saying "let's back it up and have Marius start his escape in Blaster's square".

The build is exceedingly powerful because I built it that way, frankly.
Not because of any advantage seasong gave me, and I don't appreciate (nor he, I'm sure) your stating thus.
If you'd prefer, I could have used a load of magic items to boost his AC and attacks, and just have him use the same thing Master is using for defense, and it would be a more effective build, I'd estimate.

But it wouldn't have been as FUN, or sporting, in the long run.

Blaster can be beat - don't listen to clockwork's proddings. As much as I'd like to have you guys believe he can't be beaten (therefore you won't bother trying), trust me - Victim detailed many strategies re: Maturak and an AMF, and clockwork seemed to do pretty damn good damage last round, his statement of unkillability notwithstanding.

As for the voting, I asked seasong if it was OK to see what you guys felt about revealing the natural dice rolls were.
He seemed open to the idea, and soon (or eventually) would reveal them anyhow.
I'm just trying to get a tally - I'm not trying to sway anything, or put words in Seap's mouth (sorry for misunderstanding your intention, Seap).

<sigh>
I'd really hoped it wouldn't be me vs. multiple people again this time around....


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## Jeremy (Jun 27, 2003)

Heh.  Reaper, back down, you aren't being multiple attacked.  

I prefer not to see the roles because while at the table I can read expressions and sometimes rolls to piece together info about my opponents, I shouldn't be able to.    It's supposed to be transparent.  Rolls aren't skill, they are the factor of luck, circumstance, and random what-the-hell-? in the game.  Leave 'em out.  

Marius may or may not go down, it may or may not be important.  Everyone's gonna die right?  Clockwork himself said he didn't put much work into the concept and it didn't sound like he was particularly upset in anyway.  So let's smile and keep with the positive of how cool this game is so far and leave the rule mongering to the DM.  If he wants our opinion, he'll ask, like he did.  

I can't imagine there are any huge rulings that haven't come up already, if he decided one way or the other on them, then he decided.  My job here is to have fun, not teach him or anyone else how I think the rules should work.   Screw the rules, he's trying to make it fun, trust him to.    Anything that ain't fun is probably gonna get nerfed by the gods anyways, in the interest of fun.

.
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Don't hurt me...


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## Number47 (Jun 27, 2003)

You seem to think we know more about your conversations with seasong than we do. None of us would have any idea if seasong had already visited the supernatural ability of a weretiger and ruled in a private e-mail on it. You also make statements that we should say so-and-so about your character's abilities. How the heck do I know if your character get 2d6 or 8d20 per attack? What do you expect me to say?

I point all things I consider to be rules errors, whether in my favor or not. I even asked seasong over e-mail to make sure he gave me the save for two of my characters versus a spell cast by one of my characters. I wanted to make sure that I suffered the penalty on an (unlikely) save failure because I took that risk. Trust me that I will point out any rules errors that favor your build, too.

Just as an aside, though, the lycanthrope shapechange ability was clarified either in the faq or sage advice. No matter the size of the original creature, the animal form is the same, meaning that some creatures shrink when they transform. Makes sense, if you think of how a human becomes a little rat. Does anyone actually have that ruling? I only remember it vaguely and would love to see the source again.


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

*green slime:* Damage Reduction for lycanthropes is not covered in the FAQ. I treat specific instances of rules as more authoritative than the general rules, but I use the general rules when I can't find a specific instance.

Regarding alternate form: Unfortunately, I have no high horse here . My ruling is technically wrong. My first reading of the ability seemed to indicate that there was no continuing magical effect while in tiger form - that the change itself was the only magical aspect.

However, given that Blaster would have been even more powerful if he'd gone with an Awakened Tiger (see my response to Number47 below), I don't think anyone on the receiving end should complain too much. Especially since he paid ECL twice for size, and also paid ECL for reach he can't use.

*Number47:* If you and others feel strongly about it, I am more than willing to discuss a solution. One solution would be an Awakened Tiger build - it would allow everything that has happened, happen except that Blaster would be down a bit on STR and up on BAB (and therefore total attacks). Just a quick check indicates his damage would be close to the same (his attacks averaged 24 damage each; 8 attacks of 24, and 9 attacks of 21, come within 3 hp of each other). _Edit: And checking his rolls, he still wouldn't have missed on the eight attacks he originally hit on._

The other change is that he would have six more hit dice worth of killing he could take before he went down, and he would lack DR 7/silver. Given that his average hit points per hit die are likely to be considerably better than that...

We could rebuild him, but we would only make him stronger. Faster. Better than before.

Regarding bonuses: I show each person their own rolls. I am not AVERSE to giving out everyone's rolls - I just thought it would be more fun if I didn't. If y'all prefer transparency to the fog of war, I've got no beef with it. Just let me know one way or the other.

*reapersarus:* It's not you against multiples . We're all going to be friendly about this if I have to kill ever mother-loving one of you . Number47 is feeling frustrated, and wasn't aware that making you a lycanthrope was my way of subtly nerfing you 

"Blaster can be beat": By Marius with a better initiative, for example . Seriously, he's a melee monster, but so is half the crew here. I don't see anyone crying about Saepiroth's "nearly killed Xiao Hu in one hit" or Marius doing 47 points of damage _in an AMF_ or DMWAV's army...

...well, okay, I'M crying about that last one .


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> I even asked seasong over e-mail to make sure he gave me the save for two of my characters versus a spell cast by one of my characters.



Honestly, reapersaurus has done similar - a number of you have. I'm right pleased by it.



> Just as an aside, though, the lycanthrope shapechange ability was clarified either in the faq or sage advice.



I've got the latest official FAQ open in front of me and it's not there, so it must be Sage Advice, which I treat as less than holy (well, okay, I treat the FAQ as less than holy, too, but it's a few steps above Sage Advice).

With that said, I go from the standard that you change into the creature itself, not into a relative-to-you version of it.


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## Jeremy (Jun 27, 2003)

Not to add fuel to the fire, but I like the idea that lycanthropy is a magic curse or disease and a werewolf in an antimagic field would de-wolf and come to his senses, naked and dazed and free for a moment.

But I'm all for no awakened tiger.  I've actually had the opportunity to see what one of those can do.  No thank you.    Non magical lycanthropy is great by me!  



> None of us would have any idea if seasong had already visited the supernatural ability of a weretiger and ruled in a private e-mail on it




Side note in regards to this, after the nerf bopping I got, I assume that everything that made it into the game, has already been scrutinized and ruled upon.  Especially iffy things self-contained in a character (anti magic lycanthrope).  With the fine tooth combing I got, I assume everyone got the same so I'm perfectly fine (which is cool and a relief) with everyone elses characters cause I know for every penny I paid, everyone else had to make the same sacrifices.  So less time consuming of the DM explaining his decisions and more time consuming of the DM posting the CARNAGE!!


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 27, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *[
> "Blaster can be beat": By Marius with a better initiative, for example . Seriously, he's a melee monster, but so is half the crew here. I don't see anyone crying about Saepiroth's "nearly killed Xiao Hu in one hit" or Marius doing 47 points of damage in an AMF or DMWAV's army...
> 
> ...well, okay, I'M crying about that last one . *




Yes, but the AMF negates so much for everyone else coupled with the advantages of a tiger's attack routine with monk advantages that I can't see any one person outlasting him in melee, which will be the only effective method of killing him as ranged attacks just don't deal enough damage when weighed against the AMF and DR. The only real way that blaster could be killed is by attrition from several opponents, which i don't you could say about anyone else, judging from what everyone has done in the first round. If he can trip/auto grapple/deal 192 points in 1 round, how can you expect anyone to face him without magic?


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## Jeremy (Jun 27, 2003)

And I'm hoping Anthony (Mr. 27 damage per arrow) put a serious pin cushioning into Blaster who can't heal in an AMF.  

AMF is strong, a STR monster in an AMF is stronger (again, ask Maturak).  And AMF is intimidating.  It don't matter who's in it.

And there's no way to drop the field.  Well, one way, but totally unreliable and even more totally unavailable.


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## Jeremy (Jun 27, 2003)

Maybe someone can telekinetically throw Marius's 1000 lb corpse at Blaster and do 10d6 or so damage to him.  While the AMF would stop TK, it wouldn't stop a violent thrust from outside in my opinion because it's basically just a ranged attack, the magic was at the start throwing it like a storm giant hurling a boulder.  

But now I'm ganging up on characters.  I want the Shredder dead for using that sur name.  Maybe someone can TK him through the prismatic wall.  Damn, I should played a wizard with telekinesis....


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 27, 2003)

Edit: also using an awakened tiger changes a few things as a half-ogre tiger doesn't make sense. 

One question: does picking the half-ogre template make your character type giant? Ogres are giants.


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## DM with a vengence (Jun 27, 2003)

It says right on page 218 of the Monster Manual under Special Qualities that Alternate Form, that is to say any animal or hybrid form, is Supernatural.  So unfortunately you do not pass go, do not collect 200 gold pieces, and you need to make some rather drastic character changes.

Unless it was house-ruled.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 27, 2003)

If it helps, any transformations before antimagic field is applied remain.  See the shifter description in MotW for an example, not sure where else its found.

Jeremy, why don't *you* piss the uber-warrior with antimagic field while you're standing within like 30 ft. of him


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## Number47 (Jun 27, 2003)

Just checking here. According to the rules for this GoD, a lycanthrope would not have DR of 15/silver, but instead 7/-, meaning that nothing bypasses it?


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

To clear something up... I said this already, but it bears repeating: "Blaster being able to be a shifted weretiger in an AMF is technically WRONG". I said that already. Okay?

What I am telling y'all is that his capacity for smack would be IMPROVED if he was changed to an awakened tiger. If y'all feel strongly about this ruling, I will discuss with reapersaurus the possibility of making him even more powerful.

However, I think that it would be disruptive to the game as a whole. It would not affect Marius' predicament. It would not make Blaster less powerful. It would not achieve anything real, other than to give Blaster an extra 6d8 worth of hit dice, and delay round 2 while reapersaurus and I worked out the revision.

So, although technically WRONG, I don't see any benefit to anyone (even reapersaurus, because he would have to put up with the revision) by changing this.

Clockworkjoe, your arguments about the AMF apply in equal measure to both a weretiger AND an awakened tiger, it matters not which. Indeed, they seem geared more towards AMF than weretigers.

From clockworkjoe: "also using an awakened tiger changes a few things as a half-ogre tiger doesn't make sense."

My discussion of how an awakened tiger would impact his abilities _assumed_ that he would lose the half-ogre aspect. And yes, the half-ogre template makes your character type giant.

*Jeremy:* Telekinetically thrown or dropped objects are not stopped by an AMF. You can't lift anything in the AMF, however.


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Just checking here. According to the rules for this GoD, a lycanthrope would not have DR of 15/silver, but instead 7/-, meaning that nothing bypasses it? *



From my house rules page: "If a creature is listed as having a vulnerability to a non-plus material (such as silver), that material still gets through their DR."

It is 7/silver.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 27, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> My discussion of how an awakened tiger would impact his abilities assumed that he would lose the half-ogre aspect. And yes, the half-ogre template makes your character type giant.
> 
> *




ok, just checking, since technically speaking, half-ogres can't be lycanthropes since it states in the SRD that you can only add the template to humanoids, but whatever.

Also, I'm pretty  with whatever happens because these games boil down to rock, paper, scissors to a large extent. Some character builds are better than others, but if you start off in the wrong area or take the wrong type of character for the battle then there's not much you can do once it starts.  There's not a whole lot you can do once the game begins.


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## Number47 (Jun 27, 2003)

Maybe now you see why I say that initiative is so critically important.


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

Okay, enough theory .

As of right this second, I have Number47 and clockworkjoe who seem to be asking for me to help convert reapersaurus into an awakened tiger. This will preserve current continuity, and make him a deadlier foe, and will satisfy the rules.

By default, my plan is to interpret Alternate Form as the ability to change into that form, and the form itself to be "natural". This is a _reasonable_, if loose, interpretation of the rules. It also causes the least disruption, and doesn't pause the game while we work it out. I think it's a good idea.

But just in case...

In BOTH cases, Blaster will have dished out a truck-load of damage to Marius. And he will continue to dish out truck-loads of smack to anyone who doesn't have a strategy for dealing with him. I know of at least two people who do, and there are likely more of you working ideas out, but these ideas will apply no matter which way we go.

If y'all ask me to change Blaster to an awakened tiger, these things will change:

1) His average damage/round will droop about 2-4 points.
2) His hit points will shoot up by a _minimum_ of +51 hp (6d8 + the tiger's CON bonus - the half-ogre's bonus - the half-ogre's bonus for his other 9 levels). And I think all of you know better than to think he has the minimum CON. That will, essentially, NEGATE any damage Marius did to him.
3) He'll be a bit more intelligent and charismatic. That might improve Master (the cohort) a bit, too, although I have to be vague on that.
4) He will have had one extra action during the prep round, because he didn't have to change.

So, give me your votes. Mine is for reapersaurus to stay how he is.


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## clockworkjoe (Jun 27, 2003)

I vote for not changing him because it would slow the game down and slowing a game down is the kiss of death. 

Also, a high initative is extremely important obviously but you can't even control it very much. A bad roll is going to screw you over to a large extent no matter what you do. I don't think using a lot of resources for a single die roll that may or may not be important is a good idea. After all, moving first when everyone is far away from you such as a few of those guys hiding in various corners of the map are, then it doesn't matter much. Obviously in my case, going first would have helped a lot, but then again, so would a lot of things that I wish I could change, but I can't.


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## green slime (Jun 27, 2003)

As a member of the nut gallery, sitting here enjoying the show, I'd say leave it as is. Not that my opinion matters, but I enjoy inflicting you people with it, as I can't damage your characters with my peanuts and rotten tomatoes 

I think the explanantion is good. Everyone's games will differ slightly, in how certain rules are applied, and we can't cover all bases prior to starting the game. So he has a (Ex) Alternate form lycanthrope in his game. Cool. Given that DR is changed, this seems fine to me.

Also I think seasong has done an excellent job so far, and have faith that he sees to it that all get a fair trial, and are sentenced to death.

As for die rolls, I prefer they remain hidden, because otherwise far too much can be inferred. If you reveal the to hit rolls, you can work out the opponents AC to within a point or two. You can work out what the likely character classes an opponent is, by examining the equipment, comparing to the rolls for attack and damage, and the expected BAB for various set-ups. I am VERY fond of the hidden sneaks/spells, as it is as it should be, with players guessing, not KNOWING.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 27, 2003)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *But now I'm ganging up on characters.  I want the Shredder dead for using that sur name.  Maybe someone can TK him through the prismatic wall.  Damn, I should played a wizard with telekinesis....   *



 What's with all the TMNT hate?


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## reapersaurus (Jun 27, 2003)

hmm.
fascinating.

I don't forsee changing anything for this Game, but out of curiousity, how would it have worked if I'd made Master the PC, and Blaster the cohort as an Awakened Tiger with Fighter or Monk levels? How bout a Dire Tiger that gets Animal Growth'ed? Legendary Animal is out of HD range, I'd guess...

Throw in some Dire Tiger Animal companions, from 3 Rings of Animal Friendship, and there would have been a catnip party.

I wish I coulda used Belsameth's Blessing, from Relics & Rituals, to save the 4 levels of Weretiger.... not in an AMF, but brutal nonetheless (taken shamelessly from Jeremy's wonderful work in the Munchkin S.M.A.C.K. game we played.)

Too bad that game had to end, eh Jeremy?
But after the Tarrasque as an appetizer, and the Paragon  Pseudonatural bunnies of death, where else was there to go?


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> I don't forsee changing anything for this Game, but out of curiousity, how would it have worked if I'd made Master the PC, and Blaster the cohort as an Awakened Tiger with Fighter or Monk levels? How bout a Dire Tiger that gets Animal Growth'ed? Legendary Animal is out of HD range, I'd guess...



Master as PC: Blaster would have one less level to work with.
Dire Tiger: Blasterr would have 8 fewer levels to work with.
Legendary animals are not available 



> Throw in some Dire Tiger Animal companions, from 3 Rings of Animal Friendship, and there would have been a catnip party.



Rings of animal friendship, for purposes of this game, only work for the animals in the back of the MM I; dire animals, uh uh. Even if I did allow it, however, dire tigers are out of the HD range.


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## Jeremy (Jun 27, 2003)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Jeremy, why don't *you* piss the uber-warrior with antimagic field while you're standing within like 30 ft. of him  *




Whoops.  Busted.  

*innocently* It's not like I was trying to get both of you killed so I could move on...



> _Originally posted by Saepiroth_
> *What's with all the TMNT hate?*




It's not hate...  Uh, it's tribute!  See everytime he shows up he gets thrashed, and in tribute, he needs a good thrashing!  Tribute to the subject matter.  




> _Originally posted by reapersaurus_
> *I wish I coulda used Belsameth's Blessing, from Relics & Rituals, to save the 4 levels of Weretiger.... not in an AMF, but brutal nonetheless (taken shamelessly from Jeremy's wonderful work in the Munchkin S.M.A.C.K. game we played.)
> 
> Too bad that game had to end, eh Jeremy?
> But after the Tarrasque as an appetizer, and the Paragon Pseudonatural bunnies of death, where else was there to go? *




Ah yes.  Those were the days.  My favorite quote from that game...  "...the Tarrasque!!"  "Him?  Again?"


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## cool hand luke (Jun 27, 2003)

I say leave him like he is, just because all that rules talk makes my head want to explode, and I'd just as soon move on.

I'd also prefer to keep die rolls secret.  If you deduce what you need to hit, then all of the sudden things like power attack take on a whole new metagaming munchiness that I'd prefer to leave out.


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

*A quick reminder that tonight is the deadline for round 2 actions.*

Regarding various questions:

*1) Show rolls, or don't show rolls?*
Show Rolls (reapersaurus)
Don't (Saepiroth, Jeremy, cool hand luke)
Abstain (Number47, seasong)

By default, I'm not showing the rolls. If I get a majority opinion that y'all want to see the rolls, I will, but otherwise, no.

I will show the rolls at the end of the game, along with anything else y'all care to see. That way you can see what else slipped past me and berate me for it 

_Note: I will not be publishing characters during the game. I do plan to at the end of the game, unless y'all decide you'd rather not._

*2) Does Blaster need more hit points?*
No (Jeremy, Clockworkjoe, Sollir Furryfoot, reapersaurus, seasong, cool hand luke)
Yes (DM with a vengence, Number47?)

Since "fixing" Blaster won't actually _change_ anything, and it _will_ disrupt the game, I'm going to consider the above to be reasonable approval for my decision. That's also half the players opposed, and I tie break .

_Wee Jas, distracted by the Xiao family's cool precision, suddenly notices something. She turns to Hethas, her voice clipped and precise, "Marius' shield fell. Is that an antimagic field down there?"

"Of course. You know how Ares loves anything that gets Athena's goat."

The goddess of magic fails to rise to that bait, but instead points out, "You do know that weretigers can't remain shifted when the magic is gone? That is why they change back if you kill them."

Hethas studies her friend, then the carnage below, "I could transform him into an awakened tiger... that would have the same results, but be legal..."

Sif and Nike, suddenly alert to their two favorites being reality shifted, yell from behind, almost in unison, "No!"

As Hethas and Wee Jas twist to look at the pair of blue-eyed goddesses, Nike pushes her hair back and looks death straight in the eyes, "We've established a bet, and would rather you didn't change the facts of the bet halfway through. Even though it would benefit ME if you changed Blaster in such a fashion, I would prefer a level bet. Sif," and she affectionately gestures at her friend, "gambled in good faith, and unless it was strictly necessary, I would rather retain that."

Sif just nods, but vigorously, and Hethas turns to Wee Jas, "It is your call, old friend..."

But Wee Jas is already furiously working out results on a divine abacus, comparing both versions of Blaster... "Very well. He does not actually gain an advantage by remaining a lycanthrope rather than an awakened tiger. I will turn a blind eye to *this* chicanery of yours."

Hethas, grinning, turns back to watch the fight.

Elsewhere, Ares makes another pumping motion with his fist._


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## Jeremy (Jun 27, 2003)

LOL, nicely handled.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 27, 2003)

just because I know this is going to be an issue, what will happen to the bodies of the dead?  is looting allowed?


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## Number47 (Jun 27, 2003)

I believe looting is actually _encouraged._

Which reminds me. I am leaving the bodies of the dead on the field at transparent markers. Note that I completely removed the dead summoned animal, becaused summoned creatures disappear when the die.


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## seasong (Jun 27, 2003)

I already ruled on looting:

_"Looting the Bodies"

"There is no special house rule involved here. No disappearing in a puff of smoke, no dissolving into the ground. "

"However, keep in mind that looting takes time, identifying magic takes time... and every round you are doing that instead of fighting or performing, you are losing points!"_


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## reapersaurus (Jun 27, 2003)

I'm at work till later today, and just in case seasong hasn't seen/gotten my emails, I asked a couple questions that would help me determine my Round 2 actions.

TIA


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## J. Anson (Jun 27, 2003)

Number47: the maps you're doing really make this GoD for the spectators... I hesitate to mention mistakes, but I will anyway. Polar Bear 6 jumped back to his starting position after Initiative 3 :-(


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## Number47 (Jun 27, 2003)

That is correct. That was a correction on seasong's part, so I updated the map. I didn't update the text that went with it, though, so it might not've made a lot of sense.


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## Number47 (Jun 29, 2003)

Any updates?


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## reapersaurus (Jun 29, 2003)

I FINALLY found a rare archival artist's rendering of Master/Blaster in their Gladitorial pit-fighting days.
Notice the helmet which prevented Blaster from changing form, and kept him docile enough to work for the factory collective.

I would have loved to include a Gnome Backpack in this build, but didn't get it in in time.


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## Saepiroth (Jun 29, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I FINALLY found a rare archival artist's rendering of Master/Blaster in their Gladitorial pit-fighting days.
> Notice the helmet which prevented Blaster from changing form, and kept him docile enough to work for the factory collective.
> 
> I would have loved to include a Gnome Backpack in this build, but didn't get it in in time.   *



 ...what's that from?


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## reapersaurus (Jun 29, 2003)

I'm kind of shocked noone's mentioned the blatant ripoff - I mean ... inspiration for the characters.  

I thought the first in-character quote from Master might further make obvious the reference. I'll try to drop another one this round - hopefully it'll be appropriate.


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## GreyShadow (Jun 29, 2003)

Cool game. 

Love the maps.

I know where Master / Blaster are from.


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## green slime (Jun 29, 2003)

I suspect most Aussies of our generation do...


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## seasong (Jun 30, 2003)

Just a quick note to say that I am behind, due to many things hitting this weekend, one of which is the insomnia allowing me to type this at 2 am.

So I haven't gotten very far at all, and I've already sent some requests for clarification from the very first person in the Initiative sequence.

Argh!

Anyway, here's the initiative sequence as it stands 

33 - Master (reapersaurus)
30 - Duder (duder)
29 - Osirdar (Jeremy)
28 - Hagbard the Chartreuse (DM with a vengence)
27 - Antony Grandell (Cool hand luke)
23 - Blaster (reapersaurus)
22 - Xiao Fung (Number47)
22 - Izad (Jdragon)
22 - Emeldra the Mauve (DM with a vengence)
22 - Cholestus the Shredder (Saepiroth)
21 - Tairnandon (human) (Jeremy)
20 - Rillos (Sollir Furryfoot)
19 - Mang (duder)
17 - Unth Dirn (Cool hand luke)
16 - Xiao Lung (Number47)
16 - Usasmir (Jeremy)
14 - Thoramus the Puce (DM with a vengence)
10 - Mortem Redgrave (Cool hand luke)
7 - Omigawd (duder)
5 - Marius the Weathered (clockworkjoe)
3 - Mr Buffles (DM with a vengence)
3 - Mr Duffles (DM with a vengence)
3 - Mr Gruffles (DM with a vengence)
3 - Mr Huffles (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 1 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 2 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 3 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 5 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 6 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 7 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Summoned Polar Bear 8 (DM with a vengence)
3 - Mr Stampy (DM with a vengence)
3 - Mrs Stampy (DM with a vengence)

Also, a few notes:

1) The format for posts helped. A lot. I actually have a good idea of how the round is going to turn out . A hint: there are very likely going to be more deaths.

2) I'm already ruling on a few more sketchy areas of the rules for this round. How do you people find these grey areas so consistently?

3) Yes, the order changed a bit. Some people waited for later points in the round, some people did Refocus, some people cast Refound Focus, etc.


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## seasong (Jun 30, 2003)

Quick Note:

*I'm stupid.*

Yes, yes, I know, you suspected all along . But I accidentally included some secret character information in the Initiative rundown. If you saw it, you probably know what I'm talking about; if you didn't, don't worry about it.

But I figured this is as good a time as any to remind y'all that I will frown rather severely on actions which look like they are driven by out-of-game information. Using this information is an unfair advantage over the player, who has done an excellent job of keeping it hidden. And by unfair, I don't mean "all part of the game", I mean "cheating".

I know y'all can keep it firewalled, so I'm not going to worry too much. And to the poor player who brought it to my attention, I'm sorry if my hasty reply sounded snappish. I didn't sleep last night, so I'm not entirely certain of my manners. I am extremely grateful that you brought it to my attention.

My next post is more fun oriented .


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## seasong (Jun 30, 2003)

Hethas is pleased. This is turning into a bloody round (body count 5 so far, may reach as high as 7-8). The top munchkins this round?

Number47
reapersaurus
One who shall not be named, because no one knows what he's done 

There's also several others who are preparing for their munchkin-ness, but they haven't acted yet, so I'm not giving them any kudos yet .

And only one plan has, thus far, survived contact with the enemy unscathed... and that plan is still young.


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## cool hand luke (Jun 30, 2003)

seasong said:
			
		

> *Hethas is pleased. This is turning into a bloody round (body count 5 so far, may reach as high as 7-8). The top munchkins this round?
> 
> reapersaurus
> *




oh boy does that have me worried.


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## seasong (Jun 30, 2003)

Heh .


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## DM with a vengence (Jun 30, 2003)

On a completely unrelated note, while Number 47 maps are the best thing since 3.0 Haste, Harm and Heal, do you think you could put in a link to the top of round 2?

It's just more convienient than scrolling through 23 maps.


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## Number47 (Jun 30, 2003)

When I have some time.


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## cool hand luke (Jul 1, 2003)

what is everyone's schedule like over the 4th of july weekend?  I'm going to a wedding, probably won't access from wednesday night till next monday.


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## Number47 (Jul 1, 2003)

We're going up to my wife's family cottage for the weekend. Probably leave friday morning, come home late sunday.


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## DM with a vengence (Jul 1, 2003)

I am completely free for any reasonable amount of time.


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## reapersaurus (Jul 1, 2003)

totally free...


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## clockworkjoe (Jul 2, 2003)

I'm working on a film but I have internet access while working and I can take a break every once in a while, especially when I've got something rendering. However I suspect I won't be needed anyway.

Also, the gamers is a neat little movie and worth spending some $$ (or convincing a friend to buy it) 

http://gamers.deadgentlemen.com/


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## reapersaurus (Jul 2, 2003)

DM with a vengence said:
			
		

> *On a completely unrelated note, while Number 47 maps are the best thing since 3.0 Haste, Harm and Heal, do you think you could put in a link to the top of round 2?
> 
> It's just more convienient than scrolling through 23 maps. *



I ended up just saving the Round 2 map onto my HD.
It's quicker than going thru the navigation, even though I like seeing the round develop when surfing thru the maps.


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## Number47 (Jul 2, 2003)

No update? You're very bad for teasing us, then not updating.


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## Jeremy (Jul 2, 2003)

So we know you've done reaper's turn and Number47 and at least one other person's turn, so how close are we getting to some action?  

Or at least some more tidbits on how things are advancing so we can get cracking on our personal maps or seeing Number47's maps start to get made?    What's happening?


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## seasong (Jul 2, 2003)

Sorry for the no updates. I'm down to Init 5-3. If you take a look at Init 3, you will understand . I'm having to double check conditions, etc., and make sure that I don't have all the corrections on charges, etc., that I had in the 1st round.

I will say that this round has been _easier_, if more time consuming, than the first round. However, I don't think I'll be able to hold to my 72 hour original projection until we get a lot more kills... Also, in the course of some people scrambling to get actions in by Friday, I'm reasonably convinced that 24 hours simply isn't enough time for y'all either.

I wanted to run a much faster game (24 hours for y'all, 24-72 hours for me) to get in 2-3 rounds a week, but I understand now that this was a pipe dream. At least until I can automate things better .

Anyway, I have about two hours tonight, and that should be sufficient to get everything done. However, that leaves the issue of y'all having time to reply... not to mention 4th of July weekend. (yes, some of you have no lives... can I envy you?).

So what I'll do is post the completed results tonight, OR post everything down to Init 5 tonight and the rest tomorrow.

Then, I'll give y'all a week (through next Wednesday) to get results back to me. If I get moves before then, of course, I'll crank out results earlier.

I think I can get us down to 1 turn per week (maybe stick to Wednesday results and Friday night move deadlines?) after the 4th of July weekend, but at least right now, I don't think it will go any faster.


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## Jeremy (Jul 2, 2003)

Kewl.  Eagerly awaiting tonights post.


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## reapersaurus (Jul 2, 2003)

ditto jeremy.


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## DM with a vengence (Jul 3, 2003)

That's good.  24 hours for us and 72 for you were a little unrealistic anyway with this many players, but at least your trying and sticking fairly close to the schedule.

As long as you can get in more than a turna month I'll be happy, and of course as there's more attrition, especially in my init 3 meatshield, things should move a little faster.


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Posted. I decided to go ahead and finish Init 3 (making sure everyone I thought was dead was dead, etc.) since I seem to be insomniacing again anyway.

The final count of the dead? Eight...

Marius the Weathered
Emeldra the Mauve
Mr Gruffles (turned to stone)
Polar Bear 1 (turned to stone)
Polar Bears 5, 7 and 8
Thoramus the Puce

I'll calculate points, etc., later. Right now, I'm hoping a hammer will help me sleep.

Also, I expect that there will be quite a few corrections pouring in despite my best efforts, so I'll wait for that .

Also, a quick note: I list the _damage done_, not the _damage taken_. Folks with DR take less than what I post . Just so's ya know.


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## Saepiroth (Jul 3, 2003)

Aww, shoot. I forgot that Prismatic effects don't affect their casters.

It probably would have been more impressive if Xiao Lung went through the wall, huh?


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## Marimmar (Jul 3, 2003)

Wow, that was a bloody round. I wonder how 'Blaster' will fare next round, IIRC he already took around 150+ damage, so his life should be dangling only on some bonus HPs from high Con. Well if his DR worked it could be some more life left but when dealing with people who are all able to deal ~100 damage per round it's still not much.

The Xiao family looks very impressive so far, let's see how long they can keep up their mighty spectacular fireworks. Their spells worked wonders on reducing Seasong's and DM's workload so far. 

Since some actors haven't joined the carnage yet I'm sure there'll be some more spectacular <i>first moves</i> in the following rounds. 

Great carnage so far. I'm pretty shure that someone with cohorts will win the game.

~Marimmar


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

*Saepiroth:* It was still pretty cool . You better watch yourself, though - the Xiao family might start taking you seriously any second now.

*Marimmar:* There's at least one cohort-less character who has the potential to win.

However, cohorts do seem to bring about too much advantage for the cost of a single feat... even for the people who aren't as ruthlessly efficient with them as Xiao Fung or DM with a vengence.

I think, if I do this again, that I will have some further sacrifice required to bring a cohort in, like some of the ability score points or maybe two feats instead of one - or maybe I'll require solo-builds only  I dunno. We'll see how it works in this one - the advantage of having buddies also means your enemies can get more points from your corpses


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Quick correction that I forgot about: A small bat poked its head out of Master's pack and began squeaking excitedly (this was on Master's turn, at Init 33).


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

A Fun Fact(tm): Marius took a hair below 20% of all damage dished out in the game so far, including the damage done to DM with a vengence's horde. He also took attacks from three players (and 6 individual characters) before he finally went down.


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## Jeremy (Jul 3, 2003)

I personally think Cohorts have no business being a available as a feat.  A whole 'nother character or +1 AC to one opponent you designate?  Additional HP, attacks, saves, lives. all in a feat.

That being said, it's almost ridiculous not to take the feat if it's available in a game such as this.


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## Number47 (Jul 3, 2003)

I think there most certainly is a cost associated with having cohorts. One of the costs is having a decent Charisma. If your cohort is of a lower level, then they die very, very quickly.


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

round 1, top of round
Init 33
Init 33-25
Init 23
Init 22 (2) (3) (4) (5)
Init 22-17
Init 16
Init 16-15
Init 14-10
Init 10 (2)
Init 10-7
Init 5-3
Init 3 (2) (3)
Init 1

and

Round 2, top of round


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> I think there most certainly is a cost associated with having cohorts. One of the costs is having a decent Charisma. If your cohort is of a lower level, then they die very, very quickly.



To get a 14th level cohort requires a CHA 20.

Cha 14: spend 6 ability score points out of your total*
+6 item of charisma: spend 36,000 GP
One feat

14th level cohort: starts with 45,000 GP

* Some character builds will not see this as a sacrifice; for those that do, however, a 14th level cohort can easily shore up a weak point caused by the ability score loss.


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## clockworkjoe (Jul 3, 2003)

Didn't I get an AoO on blaster when he moved closer?


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> Didn't I get an AoO on blaster when he moved closer?



"If a character's entire move for the round is 5 feet the 5 foot move does not provoke an attack of opportunity. "

I don't use mystical foreknowledge in combat, so the first 5 ft move doesn't provoke an attack of opportunity. And the second 5 ft move used the grabby claw ability, which also doesn't provoke an AoO (from the person being grappled, at least).

If there's an aspect I'm missing, though, let me know.


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Another correction:

During Xiao Lung's turn, after stuffing the scroll in a pouch, but before casting that 60-point fireball...

"Xiao Lung takes a small ceramic bowl and breaks it open, pouring a thin liquid over his head. It rapidly spreads, coating his entire body and all of his equipment, making it all vaguely shiny looking."


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## DM with a vengence (Jul 3, 2003)

Well, that was painful.

Did I ever mention how much I hate prismatic spells?  Because I do.

HATE HATE HATE HATE HATE!

We now return to your regularly scheduled violence.


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## Saepiroth (Jul 3, 2003)

I just hope I can break a few faces and disprove the "Only cohorted characters can win" theory, at least partially.


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## Number47 (Jul 3, 2003)

I will have the new maps up in about two or three hours. The maps from the first round will be going bye-bye, however.

DMwaV, does it make you feel better that you have used up a lot of my resources?

Can we have the initiatives for Round 3 when it's convenient?


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Your individual e-mails will include your changed initiative, if you
changed it.

Individual e-mails are going a bit slowly due to work. I'll try to have them out sometime this afternoon.

And yes, "Position Unknown" _hurts_ when you're waiting on your results. Sorry, but that's part of being undetectable.

Finally: I was asked about the wind and _dust of disappearance_. A very, very, very strong wind can blow it off. However, I will give you warning when the wind is getting strong enough (before the round starts). It is currently NOT strong enough.


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Suh-weet.

Check out the 3.5 grappling. It's much clearer, and works exactly how I'm running it now


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

If anyone has NOT gotten their personal e-mail from me, please let me know. I should have gotten everyone.


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

Okay, we're getting near the high post numbers for the thread, and I'd rather get things moved before DinkleDog does - if only so I can edit the durned title of the thread with the current round!

However, I'm also thinking that there's always been some question about whether or not this is the right forum - I'm thinking that maybe the Fight Club forum might be good, or maybe not, since we're not actually playing in this thread.

Thoughts? I'm going to make a new thread soon either way.

-seasong


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## reapersaurus (Jul 3, 2003)

The Fight Club is actually an OK place.
I was strongly against the idea before, since when I last went there, the activity was so high, it was hard to find the thread you wanted.

Now, it would be easy to find a thread, since there's not that much activity (at all) in there any more....

Plus, the General Discussion is so busy, it's actually hard to find this thread in here, currently.

BTW: I just noticed this rule on seaong's House Rules page:
"All natural d20 rolls will be posted. Saves and whatnot will be rolled whether or not they are needed by the particular character."

No wonder why I'd thought that would be part of the Game! 

BTW: What are everybody's thoughts on the cohort's diddling causing a loss of champion points?
Those negative points could add up - compare one round of buffing with 2 cohorts (-3 points) to one round of a PC killing a PC (+3 points).

Do we want it to be that hard to get a positive score at the end?
Maybe it'll be like golf, where the winner ends up with the most negative score  
(bad analogy, I know, but... )


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## duder (Jul 3, 2003)

I'd like to vote to see the actual unmodified d20 rolls and against the cohorts diddling taking points away.

PS. Fight Club sounds like a good forum for this


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## Number47 (Jul 3, 2003)

Nah, diddling points are when your entire team doesn't do anything. As long as someone on your team was putting the smack down, you shouldn't earn a diddling penalty.


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## JDragon (Jul 3, 2003)

Which ever forum you prefer Seasong, just do us a favor and post a link to it from this thread when you start it so we do not have to hunt for it. 

JDragon


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## reapersaurus (Jul 3, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *DMwaV, does it make you feel better that you have used up a lot of my resources?*



LOL
I'm sure that's quite a comfort to the Ogre that used up 25% of a party's resources.

He's still dead, and chopped up into flaming bits, but he'll take that gold plaque with him with pride into the afterlife : "I used up a party's resources!"


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## seasong (Jul 3, 2003)

I put it in the Fight Club forum. The continuation thread!

-seasong


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