# Is Elder Sign a better package than Arkham Horror?



## Dethklok

I hated Arkham Horror and don't expect Elder Sign to be much better - it's by the same designers, and has similarly sterile powergaming mechanics (_e.g._ clue tokens are not clues, but rather meaningless powerups).

Lovecraft was a brilliant writer; the expanded Mythos his friends and fans created was harder to take seriously; and the board games, movies, and yes, roleplaying games this Mythos spawned are almost without exception sheer dreck.

Have fun!


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## SkidAce

Elder Sign was amusing.

Arkham Horror was a whole nother level of complexity indeed.  But we did have fun with the cooperative aspect.  I followed people around sealing gates.  Neat.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots

How does the Elder Sign iOS app compare, anyone know?


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## CAFRedblade

From everything I've heard Arkham Horror can be a long 2-3 hour game, or more with the various expansions.  Meanwhile I've played Elder Sign a few times, with the single expansion included, and it's been anywhere from 30min to an hour of play time.  I rather enjoy Elder Sign, while it has lots of fiddly bits and pieces, it runs fairly smoothly from my experience.  You can watch a play through of the basic Elder Sign on Geek & Sundry's TableTop YouTube Channel.


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## Jhaelen

Whizbang Dustyboots said:


> How does the Elder Sign iOS app compare, anyone know?



Very good from what I've heard - better than the actual board game, according to a friend of mine who has both.

I'm a big fan of Arkham Horror and have played over 200 games. It's indeed a pity that most games take such a long time (3-5 hours in my experience), but Elder Sign simply cannot compare.
To me it's just Mythos yahtzee, while AH is almost an introductionary level RPG.


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## GrahamWills

Dethklok said:


> I hated Arkham Horror and don't expect Elder Sign to be much better - it's by the same designers, and has similarly sterile powergaming mechanics (_e.g._ clue tokens are not clues, but rather meaningless powerups).
> 
> Lovecraft was a brilliant writer; the expanded Mythos his friends and fans created was harder to take seriously; and the board games, movies, and yes, roleplaying games this Mythos spawned are almost without exception sheer dreck.




Well, that review is a little hard to take seriously. There are lots of reasons to dislike AH, but this is the first time I've heard it called overly abstract. Clue tokens are also not power-ups, as they have two functions. Most importantly they let you know how to seal gates, not simply close them, which is neither a power-up nor sterile. It is in fact exactly thematic wrt the books.

Also, Lovecraft, although highly imaginative and fabulous to read, is not lauded for his actual writing ability. At best he is a good writer.

Finally, the roleplaying game based on his work is recognized as a top class game, strongly thematic, and one of the few that has endured and own strong.

As far as Elder Sign is concerned, it is way lighter and more abstract that AH, to the point of not really being comparable. "Cthulhu Yahtzee" is not a bad summation, I like the game, but not enough to buy it. Fun though, so YMMV


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## GrahamWills

The iOS app is very, very good -- in the sense of faithful to the base game. Much cheaper too, so if on the fence about ES, try the app first.


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## MerricB

Finally got to play Elder Sign recently. I found it pretty bad. Thematically, it is a mess. Arkham Horror drips theme, but Elder Sign just has you rolling to match symbols rather than involving any story element in the game. If you divorce the theme from the mechanics, then Elder Sign is extremely average with not much to recommend it: the decisions you're making just aren't that interesting, and some of the rolls you need are highly improbable.

For a good co-operative, dice-rolling game, I turn to D-Day Dice, which is exceptional. Elder Sign takes Arkham Horror and streamlines the mechanics until the theme is gone and the mechanics are dull.


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## Argyle King

Dethklok said:


> I hated Arkham Horror and don't expect Elder Sign to be much better - it's by the same designers, and has similarly sterile powergaming mechanics (_e.g._ clue tokens are not clues, but rather meaningless powerups).
> 
> Lovecraft was a brilliant writer; the expanded Mythos his friends and fans created was harder to take seriously; and the board games, movies, and yes, roleplaying games this Mythos spawned are almost without exception sheer dreck.
> 
> Have fun!




Some are...

Elder Sign is hit or miss with me.  Generally, I enjoy it, but I get burned out on it rather quickly.

I find Cthulu Dice to be pretty good.  It's a simple and quick game, but remains fun.  Though, since the average game time is somewhere around 2* minutes, I tend to use it as a game between other games or when the group is waiting for someone to arrive.  It's also a great game for Cons; something to play when there's nothing else going on.  All of that being said, there have been a few times when I've lost track of time with it and have played several games in a raw without realizing how long I had been playing.  

http://www.sjgames.com/dice/cthulhudice/


*The package says 5-10, but I've seen games end more quickly.


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## Deset Gled

Me and my wife have owned Arkham Horror for awhile but have never actually made it through and entire game.  But we enjoy Elder Sign.  We think of it as AH Lite.  My wife enjoys the iOS app, but does say it's very hard.

ES has it's faults.  It can be quite difficult, and random factors can make the game impossible sometimes.  But those are common traits of the genre; if you don't like the heat, stay out of the kitchen.  And it is a little tedious at times.  Overall, I would say ES is not perfect, but it's a thousand times more accessible that AH.


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## Nytmare

If I'm looking for either a Lovecraftian game, or a Yahtzee styled dice game, Elder Sign would be one of my last picks.

Mansions of Madness tops the list for the mythos and either King of Tokyo or Roll Through the Ages for die rolling madness.


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## Phototoxin

Arkham horror seems to have a lot of scope but is actually thin on story, its well themed though... and a bitch to setup. Elder Sign is basically arkham horror without as much faffing about. It's pressured, tactical and fun, I would say it's the superior game, and while not identical captures 99% of what Arkham horror is about.


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## Jhaelen

Phototoxin said:


> Arkham horror seems to have a lot of scope but is actually thin on story, its well themed though...



Hmm, I think it's a lot like playing an RPG in a sandbox setting: The story is created through the players' actions. Have you ever read an Arkham Horror session report? Even with minimal work they read a lot like a story. Typically, memorable things happen in every turn, either because of encounters or when fighting monsters.

I'd be interested to see how Mansions of Madness compares, though. I didn't have a chance to play it yet.


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## Nytmare

Mansions is the only RPG board game I have ever played that didn't leave me *wanting* to play a real RPG the entire time.  All of the D&D rp*b*gs, Descent, Mage Knight...  I just spend the whole game wishing we were playing D&D instead.


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