# How much does coal cost?



## The_Universe (Apr 20, 2005)

In speaking about steam power in the ironclad thread, I started to wonder - how much (in D&D terms) does coal cost?  It's not listed as a commodity in the PHB, DMG or the Arms and Equipment Guide, but one must imagine that even if not used to produce steam power, people use it to heat their homes and fuel cookstoves.  Dwarves would use it to heat their forges, etc. 

How much is coal worth?


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## alsih2o (Apr 20, 2005)

More importantly, do bad guy have an advantage form all the coal Santa brings them?

 Just price it like firewood or peat.


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## adwyn (Apr 20, 2005)

Without the need for a coal industry to support steam technology, probably a few copper a bucket in regions where it can be found (mined), otherwise it would be an oddity that would range from a few silver to several gold for a lump.


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## Kax Tuglebend (Apr 20, 2005)

i'd price it in line with firewood, since according to a recent Dungeon Magazine, D&D Coal is made by burning wood.. (obviously somebody didnt know the difference between Coal and Charcoal..)

oh and incase anyones interested, apparently medieval northern english monks did alot of coal mining..


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## Umbran (Apr 20, 2005)

How much coal costs depends on how you're getting your coal.  Today, with modern methods, coal is pretty darn cheap.  Most of US electricity is generated from burning coal.  That takes huge amounts of fuel, but your electic bill is still reasonable.  Because coal is cheap.

With more primitive mining,the relative price increases.  The stuff is more common than precious metals and gems, but not that much easier to get at.  

In Medieval and Renaissance eras, coal was not all that common a fuel for heating and forges.  Wood was far more convenient for home heating.  And many a forge can work from charcoal.


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## Zappo (Apr 20, 2005)

I'd price coal from mines as substantially higher than charcoal, but substantially lower than any metal. I don't know anything at all about mining but that sounds reasonable.


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## Mark Plemmons (Apr 20, 2005)

I'd say that the availability/price of coal depends on your setting.  Though I haven't done any research on the subject, I don't believe that a medieval setting would even be aware of coal, so wood would be the main fuel - excluding magic, of course.


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## TheAuldGrump (Apr 20, 2005)

Zappo said:
			
		

> I'd price coal from mines as substantially higher than charcoal, but substantially lower than any metal. I don't know anything at all about mining but that sounds reasonable.




Charcoal is pricier than bitumous coal, cheaper than anthracite, much cheaper than coke. Coal should be _cheap_!


And coal has been burned since roman time, not just medieval. If there is coal it is burned.

The Auld Grump


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## Phineas Crow (Apr 20, 2005)

According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue (one of my fav. 2ed books) 1 lb of anthracite coal is worth 1 gp while bituminous coal is 1 gp/20 lb.


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## The_Universe (Apr 20, 2005)

Phineas Crow said:
			
		

> According to Aurora's Whole Realms Catalogue (one of my fav. 2ed books) 1 lb of anthracite coal is worth 1 gp while bituminous coal is 1 gp/20 lb.



 I don't really know a lot about the subject, but...

Which is the kind that you would use in a steam engine?


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## Henry (Apr 20, 2005)

Anthacite coal is the best kind - clean-burning, good producer.

Bitumenous coal is impure - sulfur, I believe? It burns rather foully, but still burns. Either A or B could be used in a steam engine.

I haven't researched it, but I believe I've heard that with exception of a few specimens, in the real world, there are no more known reserves of Anthracite coal.


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## TheAuldGrump (Apr 20, 2005)

Henry said:
			
		

> Anthacite coal is the best kind - clean-burning, good producer.
> 
> Bitumenous coal is impure - sulfur, I believe? It burns rather foully, but still burns. Either A or B could be used in a steam engine.
> 
> I haven't researched it, but I believe I've heard that with exception of a few specimens, in the real world, there are no more known reserves of Anthracite coal.



No, there are still a few - Alaska has some untapped reserves. An article on anthracite.

As for clean burning, there is an old advertising jingle for the Lackawana R.R. - 'Phoebe Snow all dressed in white, rides the road of anthracite!' using anthracite was not common, but vastly preferrable. Some cities passed laws that only anthracite could be burned while within city limits. Bitumous has been burned for a lot longer than anthracite, it was not used as a fuel until the 19th century. Bitumous coal actually predates the Romans. 

For what it is worth diamonds are an even higher energy source than anthracite, and burns with little or no ash or soot. But it might be a bit pricey. 

There were a number of discussions about coal burning, prices, mining, and pollution on the Privateer Press forums. *dig, dig, dig!*

Prices
Mining
Pollution

And I think that I blathered about it a bit on the ENPublishing forum while talking about Steam & Steel.

The Auld Grump, who recently finished rereading _De Re Metallica_, a book of mining techniques from the 16th Century... Very dry, but worth reading. (And this time I made it all the way through! )

*EDIT* Yes sulphur is one of the contaminants, bitumous coal is extremely variable as to impurities, and can produce lumps of unburnable clinker in the firebox of the engine, and coat the stacks with something very much like tar.


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## Kesho (Apr 20, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> For what it is worth diamonds are an even higher energy source than anthracite, and burns with little or no ash or soot. But it might be a bit pricey.




What would the ignition temperature be for the diamond form of carbon?  I hadn't heard this before, but I would think that, if true, it would be rather hot...


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## TheAuldGrump (Apr 20, 2005)

Kmmm, I can't find a mention online of the kindling point online, but the combustion temperature is 1000 K (1340 degrees Fahrenheit). Pretty hot!

The Auld Grump


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## AZNtrogdor (Apr 20, 2005)

When I first read this topic I thought u wanted to buy somebody who was naughty a christmas present and was looking for the best priced lump of coal. LOL


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## TheAuldGrump (Apr 20, 2005)

Hmmm, not a WotC official price, but the trade rules in Mongoose Publishing's _Classic Play Book of the Sea_ gives coal a price of 250 gp per ton. Seem reasonable?

The Auld Grump

*EDIT* The same price is given in _Seas of Blood_, also by Mongoose.


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## Umbran (Apr 21, 2005)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> Charcoal is pricier than bitumous coal, cheaper than anthracite, much cheaper than coke.  Coal should be _cheap_!




Well, that depends on how you want to work your economics.  The relative prices of fuel forms has not been constant over history or geography.  In some places and times coal simply wasn't available in any quantity at all, and so could not be had at any price. 

Heck, if the planet doesn't have a hundreds of millions of year history that includes large, lush, swampy areas in the distant past, there may be no coal at all, anywhere!  Dig all you want on Mars, and you're unlikely to find any fossil fuel deposits.  Not that there's free oxygen with which to burn it, but you see the point...


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## John Q. Mayhem (Apr 21, 2005)

Monte Cook's tech .pdf prices regular coal as 5 gp/day and flamestone (one chunk/day) at 10 gp/day. Not useful, because it makes no distinction between what's using it, but might make a good starting point. 

I don't recall the prices in Sorcery and Steam of Steam and Steel, unfortunately.


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