# The State of Moderation at RPG.net



## Dannager (Feb 5, 2010)

Note: This is going in Off Topic because I don't really think there's anywhere else to put it. If someone thinks differently, I'm fine with it being moved.

So I apologize if I've been snippier than usual these last couple of weeks. I've been dealing with a pretty frustrating issue over at another forum community - namely, RPG.net. This is going to be a thread involving full disclosure, because the community needs to see all of this in order to come to a reasonably informed conclusion about what happened here. I'm going to document the exact circumstances of what took place, to the best of my knowledge, in chronological order. This is going to be long. Bear with me. It's a lot to absorb, but at this point there are (I believe) 3 different individuals who have been affected by this problem. I would also like to make it clear that posting this here was a last resort; as you will see, I provided _plenty_ of opportunities for this sort of thing to be avoided. Unfortunately, this is the final method of recourse available to myself and the other individuals so affected.

*Exposition:* About three weeks ago, a thread was started (located here) in which I involved myself. Some of my posts were off-topic, and I knew it. Some of my posts were also of a confrontational nature. Something got to me, and I felt compelled to share my position. I apologized to the thread starter in a private PM, and we resolved the issue.

This, however, isn't really about those posts.

On page 9 of that same thread (link here) I was permanently banned from RPG.net by moderator Darren MacLennan. This action was the beginning of what would eventually grow to become a serious problem. Concurrently with this ban, I received the following notices:

First, an email from that same moderator, which read as follows:



> You've been permabanned from rpg.net for your posts in the d20 forum regarding girl gamers. That kind of blatant sexism, coupled with the fact that it was apparently prompted by somebody daring to identify as a female gamer, brought me to the conclusion that rpg.net just isn't going to be a good fit for you.
> 
> If you'd like to appeal this ban, you can contact the admins at admin.rpgnet@gmail.com
> 
> -Darren MacLennan



Second, a notice upon logging in, which reads as follows:



> You have been banned for the following reason:
> Unrepentant sexism - we just don't need it.
> 
> Date the ban will be lifted: Never



Now, this was a permaban - the harshest disciplinary action available to forum moderators. This is not the sort of punishment reserved for a couple off-topic posts. The moderator in question very clearly failed to understand the intent of my posts, and that's fine. It doesn't excuse the punishment selected, however.

This is where things go really badly.

When serious disciplinary action is taken against a user's account, a thread is created to discuss and explain the decision in the Trouble Tickets sub-forum. You can find the thread covering my permaban here. What followed was a fairly consistent chorus of other forum users voicing their disagreement with the permaban. Some advocated punishments that were much less harsh, while others said they didn't feel it was even offensive in the first place. This continued until someone named User posted (post located here).

Figuratively, all internet hell broke loose.

He was immediately accused of being my sock puppet by the original moderator (located here), swiftly banned by another moderator (located here), and piled on by other posters in that thread.

Meanwhile, I had discovered that my ban had occurred. As soon as I was able, I fired off an email requesting an appeal (you can find an image of the email here). At this point, I was content to sit back and wait for the appeal process to unfold.

Unfortunately, that got shut down as soon as the administrator in charge of my appeal got wind of the alleged sockpuppetry going on in the Trouble Tickets thread. He quickly hopped on board that particular bandwagon (post located here).

Now, User has already been banned for sockpuppetry. Instead of doing what he should have done - sent an email to the admin account appealing the ban - he instead created a second account (User2) and posted again in the Trouble Tickets thread, disputing the ban (his posts were subsequently deleted by the moderation staff, but you can find remnants of their existence here and here). Frankly, I don't blame him. Given the moderation staff's eagerness to label him a sock puppet, I can't imagine he expected any e-mail he sent to receive any worthwhile attention.

He was, of course, banned a second time.

I was watching this unfold as I followed the Trouble Tickets thread, unable to provide input myself in User's defense. Instead, I was busy firing off emails to the admin account, explaining that I wasn't User (or User2, for that matter), and that they just banned some innocent guy who spoke up in my defense (you can find images of those emails here and here).

I also took a look at User's account (what little I could, being banned myself). He had been around for nearly a year (his account was created in March of last year), and had almost 150 posts to his name. It should have been obvious to anyone that this was not typical sock puppet behavior. I also found that he had posted in one of the threads I had recently participated in (located here). I had posted early on in the first page of the thread (post located here) in support of Mearls' post, and he then posted on the second page (post located here), _offering criticism of it_.

Of course, I wasn't the only one who noticed these red flags. Other users posted in the Trouble Tickets thread (posts located here and here) questioning why someone would sit on a sock puppet for a year (and bother building up its own posting history) only to eventually offer defense of the original account. I can only guess at why the moderation singled out User to accuse of sockpuppetry out of those who spoke up in my defense - perhaps it was that neither of us had an avatar, or that User's name was generic - but none of my guesses come anywhere near justification. Let's be clear: there was no actual evidence of sockpuppetry to be found, and _ample_ evidence that User was an entirely different person. I would have gone back through his posting history to find further evidence to support this, but my ban prevents me from searching user histories. Those reading this thread may wish to do so on their own; if you locate further evidence that pertains to this matter, please post it in this thread.

I was, at this point in the course of events, content to let the staff take a hard look at what was going on. They had easy access to everything I had found, and they have a responsibility to their user base to take matters like permanent bans seriously, giving them the due investigation they merit.

I heard nothing, for two weeks. I had been _incredibly_ accommodating and forthcoming, and made clear my willingness to cooperate in any kind of verification they might wish to pursue. In response, I received inaction and silence.

Deciding that I'd given them more than ample time, I wrote another email (image of the email located here). I outlined what I required, and provided (once again) assurances that I would provide them with whatever they needed to confirm the nature of my account. It was also at this point that I decided to make this matter more public if keeping it between the administration and myself proved fruitless. In truth, my promise to involve the community was half threat. I do have a genuine desire to make this public in order to alert the community to what I consider a really serious problem with the state of moderation at RPG.net, but I was hopeful that they might handle that themselves in a graceful manner.

I received the following in return (image of the email located here):



> Sorry, your appeal is denied.  We have enough IP and geographical evidence to support the idea that this was some kind of prank or sockpuppetry that there's no reason to reinstate the account.  More to the point, if the sockpuppetry hadn't happened, the original poster's ban would have been revoked and he'd be reinstated.  Since we suspect sockpuppetry now, and we have a well-known zero-tolerance policy toward it when it comes to banned users, we're unable to reinstate either account.  It may be that it is a wild coincidence that you got banned and then User stood up to defend you and the user data matched so closely, in which case I'm sorry, but we're satisfied we made the right call.
> 
> --
> Administrator



I can't be sure that their claim of "geographical data" isn't true; I do live in Southern California. The chances of someone else living close by enough to be considered a likely sock puppet are not insignificant. I am skeptical, however.

Immediately, I responded (image of the email located here). This time I provided a deadline: 48 hours to come forward with a solution. That was two days ago.

I've been following the Trouble Tickets board pretty regularly for the past couple of days, waiting to see if the administration has decided to come around. Today, I noticed another peculiar thread there (located here). Unfortunately I can't look up the user in question (and no link was provided to his posts), but the user 40,000 year old hang-nail was recently banned for sockpuppetry. They also didn't explicitly state the account the sock belonged to, but the capitalization of "User" in the first post and the note that the individual had been banned three times before (which presumably includes the acccounts itarakoturo, User, and User2), and the follow-up post (located here) noting that it should be obvious from the information posted in the thread all make it sound like they suspected _this_ account of being yet another sock puppet. Of course, this user then created another account to question the ban of sockpuppetry (no doubt confused as to why he was banned - once again, I can only guess as to why, though my email requiring action on their part probably had them on alert for anything resembling more sock puppetry), which was then subsequently banned.

The possibility exists that this new account could have been owned by the same person behind the User and User2 accounts. I won't dismiss that entirely, since I can't speak for him. If this is the case, it was certainly unwise of him to create a new account given the staff's eagerness to hand out permanent bans, but if that was the case I'm sure he didn't expect that his original account would be restored to him. Either way, the responsibility for the situation lies squarely at the feet of the staff.

I was, of course, distressed that yet another otherwise innocent individual was hit by this clockwork ban hammer, and that this would probably be used as further "evidence" that I was engaging in sock puppetry. I fired off one final email (image located here) indicating that I was aware of the most recent banning spree and wanted to make sure that it was resolved as well.

That was a few hours ago, and here I am now. My deadline has passed, and so I am posting this here in the hopes that the community might read through this monster of a post and come to the conclusion that the actions of the moderation staff were simply wrong. I have little interest in discussing the circumstances of the original ban of my account. I don't believe it was justified, but the events that followed are _far_ more disturbing.

This is not, as the RPG.net staff has so uncharitably put it, a "sad quest for attention," - I would have been _ecstatic_ if this had simply been resolved two weeks ago - nor is this an attempt to attack RPG.net and its staff. I have, in the past, had wonderful experiences on their forums (indeed, I wouldn't fight so hard to get this reversed if I didn't feel it was a worthwhile community) and I haven't run into any issues with them in the past. I'm hoping that this is a (relatively) isolated incident that was caused by nothing more than a few irresponsible decisions that were supported and built-up unknowingly by the rest of the staff.

So here is my plea: if you're so inclined, and have the time to do so, please take a close look at this. I've spent _way_ too much time dealing with this and documenting it, but I've become so incensed with the state of affairs that I'm determined to see this through. I'm confident that there is ample evidence to support my side of the story. If you do come to that conclusion, say so. If you believe this is unfair, say so. If you don't agree, you can certainly say so, too (though it's not really what I'm hoping for ). I am hoping that if enough people voice criticism of the actions taken surrounding this series of events, the administration of RPG.net will decide to reverse their decisions.

Thanks for reading.


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## Aeson (Feb 5, 2010)

Not the place for this. Go here: Circvs Maximvs instead. I'm sure you'll find what you're looking for.


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## Blackrat (Feb 5, 2010)

I have to agree with Aeson. ENW isn't probably the best place to complain about another forum's moderation. CM is much better place for that.


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## Dannager (Feb 5, 2010)

Blackrat said:


> I have to agree with Aeson. ENW isn't probably the best place to complain about another forum's moderation. CM is much better place for that.



I'm not familiar with CM, and I don't have an account there. It strikes me that someone posting this sort of thing with a post history of 1 might not be taken terribly seriously, though.


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## Relique du Madde (Feb 5, 2010)

Dannager said:


> I'm not familiar with CM, and I don't have an account there. It strikes me that someone posting this sort of thing with a post history of 1 might not be taken terribly seriously, though.




However, you should know that since many people at CM also visit ENW.. (Same owners, same server).


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## Dannager (Feb 5, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> However, you should know that since many people at CM also visit ENW.. (Same owners, same server).



Ah, that makes a lot more sense. I just hopped over there and registered an account, so I'll try to get around to reposting this there tomorrow.

What section of Circvs Maximvs would this best fit in?


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## Crothian (Feb 5, 2010)

Dannager said:


> I'm not familiar with CM, and I don't have an account there. It strikes me that someone posting this sort of thing with a post history of 1 might not be taken terribly seriously, though.




Don't worry, they'll treat the same if you had a 1000 posts there and did this same thing.


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## Relique du Madde (Feb 6, 2010)

Crothian said:


> Don't worry, they'll treat the same if you had a 1000 posts there and did this same thing.


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## evileeyore (Feb 6, 2010)

Oh you people....














-- also known as "nail bunny" at CM


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## Aeson (Feb 6, 2010)

I sent you guys a nice present all wrapped up with a pretty bow. It should have given you some entertainment for a bit.


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## Janx (Feb 7, 2010)

I think you're being baited to go to CM for some ribbing over there.

I also think that you're not going to accomplish much complaining about your treatment on another site.

based on what you say, yes it sounds like bad moderating.

Ultimately, I would not want to be a member of a site with crappy moderation.

You may need to accept the fact that u aren't getting back in, and truth be told, it doesn't sound like that nice of a place if moderation is that shabby.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 7, 2010)

Personally, I never found Darren MacLennan's judgment and social skills consistent with the qualifications of a good mod, but hey, it's not my board, not my rules, and not my choice to make. Not that I'd make a better mod there or anywhere (or even a good one), but I never thought he was a good choice. 

I'm not going to comment on whether or not I think your ban is justified, but I will say you can see some of what I think makes him a bad choice for being a mod in the post announcing it that you linked to. Or maybe I'm just judging him on EN World's standards, and not RPGNow's...

And there have certainly been other mods that I didn't care for personally, but I could never say they didn't do their job, do it fairly and do it well.


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## jaerdaph (Feb 7, 2010)

Janx said:


> I think you're being baited to go to CM for some ribbing over there.




Oh, and ditto on this. 

Again, I won't comment on whether I think it is deserved or not.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Feb 7, 2010)

Don't go to CM, it's a trap!  I don't know much about rpg.net, but I find it hard to believe the people there could be bigger turds than you'll find in CM.

I'm surprised you haven't gotten any flak along the lines of "dude, it's just some forum, who cares?"  That said...it's just some internet forum, who cares?  

It sounds like they had no legitimate reason to ban you (I should probably look at your original post that the OP replied to that you then replied to, since it was probably the powderkeg), and I feel really bad for the User fellow.  *Reading your permaban thread*  A few people have trashed on Darren now, but I think the "tool of the year decade century millenium infinity" is Cessna.  Wow, what a prick!  So much so, that I'm actually fairly confident that if Cessna were a moderator on EnWorld, s/he'd try and "out" me as a sockpuppet for user.  Just ignore my half decade here, it was all a front!


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## Umbran (Feb 8, 2010)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> Wow, what a prick!





Hm.  Somewhere, you got the impression that it was okay to use EN World to toss insults around.

Disabuse yourself of that notion very, very quickly, please.  This is not okay.  It is the exact opposite of okay.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Feb 8, 2010)

Sorry.  I don't even know why that made me so angry.


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## agoodbadhabit (Apr 7, 2010)

I'm with you.

I was a member of rpg.net for 11 years.  I saw it go from a site in which folks of all stripes could get together to exchange ideas (and yes, scrap over them occasionally) to one at which you had to toe the moderator-party line in order to stay in their good graces.

Though I'd never even had a mod action, I was perma-banned in late '09.  I had PMd a mod (though he wasn't posting as a mod) over the me-too gravedancing he was doing in Trouble Tickets; then *BAM* I was banned for alleged PAs via PM.

Nice thing about that?  rpg.net refuses to disclose PMs, so basically the mods have a fail-safe way to ban folks with whom they don't agree.  They can say you said pretty much anything, and there's no way for the general user base to know otherwise.  Very Kafkaesque...

Up to that point I'd had some unpleasant exchanges with Nina, Future Villain Bond, and Darren (all wearing their non-mod hats) in various sex-positive threads, and a couple of times with Cessna over his one-true-way crap.  I repeat, though, that I'd never been sanctioned, or even red-texted.

I let it go as no longer being worth it, but then they banned my brother-in-law for alleged sockpuppetry.  He never referred to me, but (unfortunately for him) he did speak his mind when the blue-noses came out in Tangency.  He'd been a member for around four years; pretty long-term for a sockpuppet indeed!  Granted he'd not posted for a bit over a year before his ban, but then again he was overseas doing his chosen duty.

None of his appeals were even answered.

This led me to ghost through their Trouble Tickets forum from time to time.  I was stunned at the number of posters they've been banning, especially long-term ones.  Every purge has its victims, though.

In any case, the current crop of mods are bent on establishing a homogeneous site on which only those with their values are allowed to post.  Sad, especially in light of what rpg.net was, but whatever.  Their site seems to be dying off, because who wants to talk to themselves (or a reasonable simulacra thereof) all day?


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## Crothian (Apr 7, 2010)

I think the site is doing great.  There seems to be no better community to talk about any types of RPG.  I've yet to have an issues with the mods there and I've been there forever as well.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Apr 7, 2010)

Crothian said:


> I think the site is doing great.  There seems to be no better community to talk about any types of RPG.  I've yet to have an issues with the mods there and I've been there forever as well.




To play devil's advocate, though...  The poster above you also had no problems for years.  And then suddenly had problems.  Just because nothing's happened to you (...yet...) doesn't mean you should overlook it if the mods are being abusive to others.


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## Crothian (Apr 7, 2010)

You are being devil's advocate to my devil's advocate 

I read trouble tickets from time to time but I rarely see what I consider mod abuse.  We see the same thing about EN World the people who get banned and punished complain and complain but most of the time I can see they were at fault.


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## agoodbadhabit (Apr 8, 2010)

Crothian said:


> I think the site is doing great. There seems to be no better community to talk about any types of RPG. I've yet to have an issues with the mods there and I've been there forever as well.



I guess it depends on what connections you've made during your "forever."

I forged a fair number of non-rpg.net associations, and then watched as the posts of some of them garnered negative mod attention.

Have you not noted how many long-term rpg.net members have been banned/permabanned over the past year or two?  If you haven't, I suspect you're not following Tang or TT too closely.

Strict-RPG-wise, you can post lots without running afoul of the mod agenda.  If you stray into the socializing-with-RPGers though, you'd better toe their party line.

The mods even moderate private groups now, even when no complaints have been made, to ensure compliance to their comfort zones and what they deem to be "appropriate."

All in all, the pre-2001 rpg.net was a much better place in which to interact with other gamers.  The "mod-lite" post '01 years were okay, but the modern level of moderation simply serves to assure that the points-of-view of the chief mods get propagated and reinforced at every opportunity.  Hardly a hererogeneous atmosphere.


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## agoodbadhabit (Apr 8, 2010)

Crothian said:


> You are being devil's advocate to my devil's advocate
> 
> I read trouble tickets from time to time but I rarely see what I consider mod abuse. We see the same thing about EN World the people who get banned and punished complain and complain but most of the time I can see they were at fault.



Sorry, but there was no way to see if I was "at fault."  They based their ban on alleged PMs, which they refuse to disclose.

Perfect system for them...


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## Crothian (Apr 8, 2010)

You aren't going to get sympathy from me.  Your first posts to EN world are to complain about abother site.  That's not what En World is for and I'm suprised the thread hasn't been locked becasue bringing drama from other boards here has resulted in thread closures for that alone.  If you want to bitch and complain about it go to CM it is perfect of this type of topic.

Circvs Maximvs - Powered by vBulletin

You got banned there so of course you have an axe to grind.  It isn't perfect there, it isn't perfect here.  I've seen and read why a lot of the long time people got banned.  Being long term or a prolific poster doesn't give them any more rights to be rude and distruptive as anyone else.  In the end the site is run and owned by somebody and they get to do with it what they want.


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## agoodbadhabit (Apr 10, 2010)

Crothian said:


> You aren't going to get sympathy from me. Your first posts to EN world are to complain about abother site. That's not what En World is for and I'm suprised the thread hasn't been locked becasue bringing drama from other boards here has resulted in thread closures for that alone. If you want to bitch and complain about it go to CM it is perfect of this type of topic.
> 
> Circvs Maximvs - Powered by vBulletin
> 
> You got banned there so of course you have an axe to grind. It isn't perfect there, it isn't perfect here. I've seen and read why a lot of the long time people got banned. Being long term or a prolific poster doesn't give them any more rights to be rude and distruptive as anyone else. In the end the site is run and owned by somebody and they get to do with it what they want.



I'm not looking for your sympathy, defender of the status quo that you are.

This thread was brought to my attention by a friend, and a simple google search unearthed it.

If you're going to take me to task for supporting someone who *has* had a similar experience, then feel free.  I'm pretty sure we're not posting for your benefit...

Speaking of which, why did you bother to post?  To let the e-world know that you've never posted anything worthy of mod notice?


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## Umbran (Apr 10, 2010)

Ladies and Gentlemen,

How about we stop getting personal, hm?  Thanks much.


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