# Cats inside house (2 Cats Dead; 1 Cat Adopted; 1 Raccoon, 1 Possum Relocated)



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 8, 2007)

For those who remember.

I went through hell last year dealing with a neighbor who refused to keep her cats in her house & just let them run wild.

She moved away & some new people moved in, with cats (but indoor ones).

Now they have begun to let them outiside.

I was 30 minutes late to work today.

Picking up our garbage after the cat knocked it over this morning & spread it all over our yard.

But I've prepared for this.  Animal Control told me the PROPER & SAFE (for kitty & person) to trap nuisance PESTS (not pets, peSts) & turn them over to Animal Control.

I'll talk to them.  Once.  But I've been through MONTHS of hell before expecting someone to give a darn about their animal's actions.

I will warn them:  Their cat WILL stay out of my yard.

Option 1:  They keep control of their animal.

Option 2:  I catch it, turn in over to Animal Control & they can pay the $25 to $500 Dollar fine to get it back out (the $500 Number comes for an unliscensed cat with no proof of any shots, a recent Rabies scare upped the fine for an animal without Rabies Shot).

I can repeat Option 2 until the cat doesn't come back.

This might sound harsh (& up until last year, I'd agree).

However, I you think I am being too hard....

I'll go over to your house.

Crap in all your flower beds.

Crap all along the side of your house.

Crap all over the yard.

I'll stop when I get to 10 Wal-Mart Sacks worth.

Oh, & then I'll urinate over your car every morning.  How's that sound?

Then I'll sharpen my knives on your deck.

Plus, I'll break your bird feeders & leave various bird parts throghout your yard.

Does that sound like fun?

Welcome to Vraille's Summer 2006.

There will be no repeat performances.  My sanity can not take it.

If you think I'm being a jerk,

Last year, when Animal Control set out the Animal Cage to trap the neighbor's cats, she had to wear a breath mask.  That was how bad the smell was.  Worse case she had seen in her 15 years.  She was amazed at our restraint (She was grateful we didn't resort to the Anti-Freeze solution that seems popular around here).

I'm just ranting.

I'm just tired of dealing with this.

I'll leave you with this:

Your cat in your yard:  a PET.

Your cat in every other yard:  a PEST.

Pest, synonym for Vermin.

As in what you call an exterminator for.

If your cat is in my yard, all compassion has been forcibly driven from my body (and I'm a long term cat-owner).

Cats in my yard will be sent to Animal Control.  We don't have a no-kill shelter anywhere near here.

I will be killing (indirectly) cats.  I did kill one last year (Too wild, Animal control had it destroyed).

It is phrase that until 14 months ago or so, I'd swear I'd never, ever even consider.

Now I have a Flowchart & Phone number on speed dial.

And irresponsible owners have forced me to become a cat killer (if anyone knows of a no-kill shelter near Columbia MO, let me know; I can upgrade from Kitty Killer, to Kitty Jailer).

Well, that's enough of my crappy (not the most humorous pun I've ever used) day.

This Rant hasn't helped one bit.

My frustration is still there, as is the very real possiblilty I'm going to be sending a kitty to death row very soon.

I hope these people will be reasonable about their cat (they live 10 FEET from a Major highway for pete's sake!  25 Semi's a day pass through & hundreds of vehicles.  Flat Cat, right away).

To cat owners:

Consider yourself.

Consider your cat.

Consider your neighbors.

Educate yourself on what happens to a Cat outdoors (Nasty, Brutal & short is a good summary).

Educate yourself on what a Cat thinks about outdoors (Most research I've read indicates indoor cats have the same 'cat happiness' as an outdoor one, but a much healthier, longer lifespan).

Educate yourself on what happens to the outdoors (Hawaii Wildlife being an extreme example).

Educate yourself on what happens when the cat doesn't come back (statistically, the outdoors is kitty Russian Roulette, eventually the chamber comes up loaded).

I'd be obliged if you could all give me some well wished Aid Other Bonsues to the Diplomacy Check I'm going to be making tomorrow.

I think 9 of the cat's 9 lives would also appreciate it.


----------



## Thunderfoot (Sep 8, 2007)

VD (never realized how unfortunate your initials were),
As an owner of cats, I can actually understand exactly where you are coming from my man.
Of course, I used to have the same problem with dogs, but it doesn't matter what pet is causing the mess, people have lost respect for their neighbors.  

I hope your new neighbors are more understanding than your last ones and that this is a one time thing.  Hang in there guy.


----------



## Bront (Sep 8, 2007)

MOST outdoor cats are pretty easy to deal with, and may cause an occasional nusance, but not much more than a wild animal might.  My cat is an indoor cat that likes to go outdoors.  She rarely leaves our yard, and at worse, goes 2-3 houses down, and usually just sits in the driveway, deck, or porch.  She doesn't like to go to the bathroom outside (She's run inside to go to her litter box and run back out).  We also have 2-3 that occasionaly show up around our house, but have never been much of a nuscance.

In fact, rabbit damage to flowers seems to have been cut down greatly.

But, that said, if a neighbor complained about our cat, I'd probably talk with them, and ask them to be patient, and if it continued to happen, I'd keep her inside.

What is it about your yard that attracts cats?


----------



## Lewis526 (Sep 8, 2007)

Here's something unfair about the way the law is written:

If your dog leaves your yard and enters someone else's yard, and then kills their cat, you and your dog are liable for the neighbor's cat's death.

If your cat leaves your yard and enters someone else's yard, and then kills their dog, neither you nor your cat can be held responsible for the neighbor's dog's death.

In other words, dogs and their owners are held responsible for the dogs' actions, but cats and their owners are not.  At least that's the way I'm told the law stands in Georgia.

This tends to make cat owners less likely to control their pets, because they have no fear of being punished.  I think it's a great idea to take the matter into your own hands.  If it costs the neighbors $50 or more every time their cat enters your yard, they're going to stop letting it out.  You might also want to get a trash can that is more difficult for wildlife to get into.  If a cat can open it, so can a raccoon.


----------



## Elephant (Sep 8, 2007)

Please learn to write shorter posts with fewer extraneous spaces between every single sentence.  I got about half a page in and couldn't read anymore because the formatting was too annoying.


----------



## Ferret (Sep 8, 2007)

Keep the cat poop and return it to the owner.....

Hope things clear up.


----------



## Nyaricus (Sep 8, 2007)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Please learn to write shorter posts with fewer extraneous spaces between every single sentence.  I got about half a page in and couldn't read anymore because the formatting was too annoying.



Dude, he's been here awhile, and it's just the way he posts when he needs to rant.

VD, I hope these new owners smarten up... :\


----------



## Morrus (Sep 8, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> However, I you think I am being too hard....
> 
> I'll go over to your house.
> 
> ...




Somewhat unfortunately for you, society collectively (in the form of written law) considers those actions to be crimes, whereas similar actions performed by a cat are not.  So I wouldn't recommend it.


----------



## Phanboy (Sep 8, 2007)

I appologize in advance, but in honor of the lolcats thread...


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Sep 8, 2007)

Fanboy- that's funny!

Vraille- I remember you saga, and wish you the best.

You might just consider bringing over some cookies and relating your story to your new neigbors, just so everyone's clear.


----------



## Jeysie (Sep 8, 2007)

Never understood how anyone who cares about their cat could let it outside anyway. I like my kitty safe indoors, where he's clean, healthy, free of fleas and ticks, has nice soft fur, can lounge/cuddle on my bed and chair, and won't get run over by a car or tortured to death by some sicko.

Peace & Luv, Liz


----------



## DreadPirateMurphy (Sep 9, 2007)

A few years back, I was handed a cat that somebody else had rescued.  Luckily, it was very quickly adopted through HSUS.  One of the rules I had to abide by, though, was that the cat was not to be let outside.  The HSUS policy (at least in the Mid-Atlantic region) was based on the fact that outdoor cats have much shorter life expectancies.  Their take is that if you care about the animal, you should keep it indoors.

Of course, they also had a policy that the cats would be neutered and NOT declawed.  The second, while it makes sense the way they explained it, means extra effort on the part of the pet-owner.  You have to keep a clawed cat indoors and train it to only claw the scratching post.  Of course, being responsible about anything takes effort, and some people can't even take responsibility for themselves.


----------



## Dire Bare (Sep 9, 2007)

Lewis526 said:
			
		

> If your cat leaves your yard and enters someone else's yard, and then kills their dog, neither you nor your cat can be held responsible for the neighbor's dog's death.




Dude, if your cat can kill dogs . . . .

THAT'S ONE AMAZING CAT!!!!


----------



## Bront (Sep 9, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Dude, if your cat can kill dogs . . . .
> 
> THAT'S ONE AMAZING CAT!!!!



Or one small & stupid dog


Edit: Removed stupid.  it's a dog, that's given.


----------



## jaerdaph (Sep 9, 2007)

Vraille, let me give you some advice from personal experience. A few years ago, I had problems with a neighbor in my apartment building that would constantly blast her music at all hours of the day and night whenever she was on a binger (she was a drugged out club kid). The police were useless and would only show up one time out of ten when noise complaints were called in, and never really did anything about it because she would always be sure to answer the door in something low cut and skimpy. It got to the point where a few other neighbors and I did a little legal research and were able to draft a letter to the landlord requesting her eviction. After a few stressful months, we were finally able to get her removed. About a year later a new neighbor started blasting their stereo one Sunday morning for about an hour. Instantly, all that anxiety and frustration came flooding back to me - oh boy here we go again. Every week at the same time she would do the same thing and I was livid. I spoke to some of my other neighbors from the problem before and they talked some sense into me. She only did it once a week for an hour while cleaning her apartment. She was in all other respects a model neighbor and a very nice person to boot. In short, I had been projecting the previous difficult situation on to an entirely different one. I'm glad I took a step back because I have since become friends with her and recently she hooked me up with a contact for some paying consulting work. 

So please, talk to your new neighbors first. Also, be 100% sure it was their cats that were responsible (are you assuming they did it on your past experience, did you see the cats actually tear apart the garbage, or were they just curious about what some other wild animal had uncovered? My parents live in the country now and I know they have problems with raccoons and other such things). 

I hope this all works out for you.


----------



## Harmon (Sep 12, 2007)

VD, 

I understand, and I remember your thread.  

I have always been of the mind that my cats need to be able to go outside a few hours a day.  Most of the time my cats remain in the back yard.  Both are fixed and both like the fences around our home for sharpening their claws.  

About the neighbors- I have spoken to a few and they don't seem to mind.

I know that indoor cats live longer, and I would love to have my cats about for decades (my wife had a cat from when she was like five- it passed away when she was in her mid twenties), but I just can't lock them inside and keep them here, I would feel like a jailer.  I let them live the life they want as best I can, and for the most part they enjoy and like the life I want them to live- warm and safe inside.  

Its my hope that my cats never do what you have gone through, but if they do do something like that, I hope that I have to deal with someone that understands, and is considerate and thoughtful enough to find me and say "hay, your cats are doing-" before they do something.... anything else.

Take care, be patient, and understanding and you will feel better


----------



## Umbran (Sep 12, 2007)

Harmon said:
			
		

> I know that indoor cats live longer, and I would love to have my cats about for decades (my wife had a cat from when she was like five- it passed away when she was in her mid twenties), but I just can't lock them inside and keep them here, I would feel like a jailer.




Harmon, folks sometimes get a slightly romanticized view of what cats need - they think of the great jungle cats, always outside, and figure their own cats _need_ to have something like that experience, and that they're doing the animal harm ("feeling like a jailer") if they don't let them out.  This idea is almost correct, but not quite on target.

For their continued health, cats do need a rich and varied environment. No question - without it they can get a bit neurotic.  And it is true that the outdoors does provide much of that, and is easily and readily available.  The thing is, in most homes, an equivalently rich environment can be provided indoors.  It can take some careful observation and a bit of work on the owner's part, but generally a cat can be quite happy and healthy indoors.  

Many folks don't believe me when I say that, but it is true.  If you do what's necessary to compensate, you don't need to feel like a jailer.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 13, 2007)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Many folks don't believe me when I say that, but it is true.  If you do what's necessary to compensate, you don't need to feel like a jailer.




Completly True.  Cats need a lot of stimulation.  But that can easily be provided by their owners.

I was able to have three very well adjusted Maine Coons in a small apartment just be giving them enough toys & interacting with them on a regular basis (that they had each other also helped).

I'd still have cats (except my wife is allergic, but had cats growing up, until she found out & her chronic migraines went away).

Keeping your cat indoors does a service for your cat, for your local environment, and your neighbors.


PS.  Turns out the neighbor's cat just got out when one of her kids smashed a window open (she has 5-6 young children).  I still think there might be a feral cat wandering around.  I also wouldn't be surprised to find some racoons or possums about, but have seen no signs.  Southern Flying Squirrels yes, Racoons, & possums, NO.

Things look like they might work out.  At least if I have to trap a cat, I don't have to worry who it belongs to.


----------



## Harmon (Sep 13, 2007)

Hay, Umbran, ya I have heard that too (from you and others).

I have had four cats in the past 18 years- one died from stomach cancer, and the other from a heart defect.  The other two like to go out in the morning, and once or twice during the day.  

As far as enriching the interior environment, I would like to hear more, as I would like them to make the choice to stay in more, but I want them to have an understanding of the world outside, to not wonder their whole lives- "what's over that fence?"  Instead they know there is a big dog on the other side that doesn't like them.

I am very much about freedom, choice, thoughts, and actions (so long as it harms no one else), so keeping them locked inside bothers me.  

Our cats have the choice to go out, sometimes they do and sometimes they do not, and some times I chose for them (one was sick last night so he stayed in today).


----------



## Thunderfoot (Sep 13, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Dude, if your cat can kill dogs . . . .
> 
> THAT'S ONE AMAZING CAT!!!!



Not really, I had a cat that took down a German Sheppard, and it wasn't even a close thing.
The Sheppard charged; my cat leaped and dug its claws into the dog's face right behind its ears, the back claws now free to shred ad infinitum, which they did.  The dog staggered back into the street and died on the spot from blood loss.  The owner of the dog tried to press charges, right up until the police officer asked why the dog wasn't on a leash and in my yard.  Needless to say the blood trail was evident so the beginning location of the altercation was easy to trace.   We as a society often forget that cats were also domesticated to hunt.


----------



## Pbartender (Sep 13, 2007)

Harmon said:
			
		

> As far as enriching the interior environment, I would like to hear more, as I would like them to make the choice to stay in more, but I want them to have an understanding of the world outside, to not wonder their whole lives- "what's over that fence?"  Instead they know there is a big dog on the other side that doesn't like them.




We've got a cat.  He's only been outside once or twice, when he thought he wanted to sneak out there.  He changed his mind and came back in.

Here's what you do.  First, make sure the cat's got plenty of places he can hang out and look outside...  Especially if the view is bushes or lawn or trees.  For most cats, sitting on a sunny window ledge and watching the birds and squirrels outside is just as good as actually being out there. Also, hiding places for the cat to explore and sneak through are good...  Even an empty paper grocery bag or cardboard box can keep many cats interested for days.

Second, if you can, get some other pets.  Not other cats, other pets.  Aside from our cat, we've got a dog, a tank full of fish, a cage of gerbils and a small terrarium that our kids use for interesting bugs they find in the yard (katydids earlier this year, and now a great big Chinese mantis).  Small pets, like the gerbils or fish, should kept in places where the cat can see them, but can't get at them...  Our cat will spend hours pretending to stalk and hunt the gerbils, fish or bugs.  Meanwhile, our dog and cat have a playful rivalry going on...  The dog polices the cat when he get himself into trouble, and the cat will pounce and play tricks on the dog when she's not looking.  The upshot of that, is that all the various pets tend to keep each other busy and out of trouble when we aren't around to pay attention to them.

Finally, experiment with various toys until you find something your will will play with on his own.  Simple fluffy puff balls, curlicues of plastic and knobbed bouncy balls are some of our cat's favorites...  Stuff he can bat around on the floor and then pounce after.


----------



## cignus_pfaccari (Sep 14, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> PS.  Turns out the neighbor's cat just got out when one of her kids smashed a window open (she has 5-6 young children).  I still think there might be a feral cat wandering around.  I also wouldn't be surprised to find some racoons or possums about, but have seen no signs.  Southern Flying Squirrels yes, Racoons, & possums, NO.
> 
> Things look like they might work out.  At least if I have to trap a cat, I don't have to worry who it belongs to.




Awesome.

My parents have outside cats.  They used to keep the cat chow* in a closable garbage can outside, until these raccoons started getting into it.

They tried a humane trap, which worked to trap the cats; I'm told the sight of one cat sitting in the cage surrounded by her friends was rather comical.  Then someone asked Dad what he'd do if he caught a skunk.  So, the humane trap went.

Later on, after they'd moved the can into the garage, one of their neighbors mentioned catching some rather fat raccoons and selling their pelts.

Now the cats hang out in the garage in the evenings; there's a pet door, so they can get in or out, but that's closed after the parents go to bed, and the cats are conditioned to come for treats about that time.

Brad

* - The dog eats it, too; apparently, it tastes better, and also it's more social.


----------



## megamania (Sep 14, 2007)

I remember your situation then.  Sucks you have a new neighbor that also has cats running around.

Under the circumstances I believe you are doing all you can.   Be sure to explain this to the new people so they don't go nuts on you as well however.  They may not be aware of the mess their cats are leading to.


----------



## Mark Chance (Sep 15, 2007)

Bummer, V.D.

Around here, I get my hands on any animal without a collar, it goes to the SPCA. The most recent was a black lab. Great dog. I'd've kept him if I could've afforded him. People who can't be responsible for their animals deserve to lose them.

Or, maybe I'm just a jerk.


----------



## Nyaricus (Sep 15, 2007)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Not really, I had a cat that took down a German Sheppard, and it wasn't even a close thing.
> The Sheppard charged; my cat leaped and dug its claws into the dog's face right behind its ears, the back claws now free to shred ad infinitum, which they did.  The dog staggered back into the street and died on the spot from blood loss.  The owner of the dog tried to press charges, right up until the police officer asked why the dog wasn't on a leash and in my yard.  Needless to say the blood trail was evident so the beginning location of the altercation was easy to trace.   We as a society often forget that cats were also domesticated to hunt.



That's frickin' cool!


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 16, 2007)

I am now offically a Cat Hater.

30 Years as a Cat Lover is now history.

This morning there was a cat (not one I'd seen before) using our deck as a scrathing post.  The deck my wfe has spent the last month re-sanding & re-painting.  It now has lots of claw marks all over it.

Cats in my yard must not be.  If that involves death to the kitty.  I'm OK with that (which is something I never thought I'd say).

2 Years ago, if someone had said "There's that cat on my property, where's my gun?"  I'd have said:

"You can't shoot the cat, that'd be mean & cruel."

Now: "Hope you're a good shot."

A person can only take so many cow-pies (or kitty-pies) in my case, before a limit is reached.

Mine has been reached.  Tomorrow, I'm calling Animal Control & & asking them exactly how they want me to set up my own Animal Trap (They told me once, but I want to write it all down so I do it exactly).  I'll then go to the Farm Store here & town & pick up an small animal trap (they have lots, around 30 Bucks).  Set it up, & start sending kitties to death row.

I have no desire to be the Angel of Death for cats, but irresponsible pet owners have left me no choice.  You won't keep your cat from doing nasty stuff in my (& others) yards; I'll do it for you.

While this cat may be a feral stray (which is a whole other issue of owner iresponsibility), this problem isn't going away.   For me or thousands of others like me.

Feral Cats & Dogs are a major problem in areas all across this country (and many other countries).  At some point, somebody has to stand up & take responsibility.  I'm standing up now (due to the problem being right in my own back yard).

To cat owners:

Once a cat is beyond your control, there are very few allies for it, & hundreds of potetnial enemies.

I'm now firmly (though unwillingly) in the Enemy Camp.


----------



## jaerdaph (Sep 16, 2007)

Just don't bury the carcasses in the abandoned pet sematary on the hill that was built on the ancient Indian burial ground.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 16, 2007)

*BLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEPPPPPP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!*  

Different Cat.

Taking Crap in Yard.

Dead Baby Cardinal as well.

*CAT MUST DIE!!!!!*  

First time I've ever said those words, but I'm not going through a repeat of kitty hell again (in reality, cat must go to Animal Control, who will probablly kill the cat).


----------



## Lewis526 (Sep 17, 2007)

Where are all these cats coming from?  I betcha there's some crazy old cat lady somewhere in your neighborhood who has about fifty of them, and can't keep track of more than thirty at a time.  Go ahead and trap the bastards.


----------



## Blackrat (Sep 17, 2007)

Wow. What a cruel man. Those were my initial thoughts. But now I'd say you're doing exactly the right thing. I've seen my share of feral cats too. And most of them are perhaps better of killed by animal control people.


----------



## Blackrat (Sep 17, 2007)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> Not really, I had a cat that took down a German Sheppard, and it wasn't even a close thing.
> The Sheppard charged; my cat leaped and dug its claws into the dog's face right behind its ears, the back claws now free to shred ad infinitum, which they did.  The dog staggered back into the street and died on the spot from blood loss.  The owner of the dog tried to press charges, right up until the police officer asked why the dog wasn't on a leash and in my yard.  Needless to say the blood trail was evident so the beginning location of the altercation was easy to trace.   We as a society often forget that cats were also domesticated to hunt.




Yeah. Seen this kind of thing happen too. It was little kitten versus German Sheppard. Lucky for the dog it was still a kitten and not full-grown housecat. This dog survived. Albeit with nasty scars running through it nose. Never seen that dog around our yard afterwards.


----------



## Thunderfoot (Sep 18, 2007)

Lewis526 said:
			
		

> Where are all these cats coming from?  I betcha there's some crazy old cat lady somewhere in your neighborhood who has about fifty of them, and can't keep track of more than thirty at a time.  Go ahead and trap the bastards.



VD, please forgive me....

*Vraille's Cat Hate Song
To the tune of "Where Have All the Flowers Gone"*
Where did all these cats come from, In my garden.
Why'd they do that in my lawn, where's their home?
I haven't seen this one before, and I've a problem
They destroying my wife good work, upon my deck....

Where did all these cats come from, won't someone tell me
How can I keep them off my lawn, they're a total mess.
I've called the SPCA, and Animal Services
They will take them all away, but will that be enough?
So take the advice of a one so sage, like Bob Barker
Make sure that they're spayed, or at least indoors.....
So that 
ALL of the cats will be gone, from my property
and I will will give bless-ed thanks, for eternity.

It was quick and dirty, but I was inspired.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 19, 2007)

*SUCESSS!!!!!!!! *

The monster cat has been captured.

We called Animal Control, but it was going to be at least Friday until the could come over, as there is a Skunk causing problems on the other side of town (it has sprayed the SAME Golden Retriever 4 times in the past 3 days); but she said we could set our own trap out, just check it often, give her a call/leave a message, & don't try to mess with the cat.

Went out to our Farm Supply store & picked up a Live Animal Trap for 40 bucks & 3 cans of cat food at 35 cents a piece.  Set it up & waited.

2 Hours later, we had the Demon Cat....

Actually, we now have a half-starved, scared 3 month old kitten in a wire cage in the back yard.  (I've seen 1 other cat as well).

That's what we caught.  A small white with grey spots kitten that's really hungry, scared & timid (probablly barely weaned).


My anger has been misplaced.  The cat is not to blame.

If you get a phone call saying "Your uncle got trampled to death by a Rhino at the zoo.  He jumped over the railing, ducked the Guard, Climbed the fence, ignored the warning signs, then poked the Rhino with a Stick." Can you really blame the Rhino?  Or even the Zoo?  Your uncle was an idiot.  The Rhino was doing what Rhinos do.  The zoo had guards to protect any reasonable human being.


This cat (well, kitten) was doing what cats do.  He is not to blame.  At some point the actions of a human being are to blame.  I will no longer blame (or grow angry) at the cat.

Instead by Anger & Frustration will be directed at the careless, nameless human who ALLOWED this cat to make my life miserable (& my neighbor, she spent 2 hours cleaning up her trash this morning).  It was an individuals decision to abondon this kitten, throw out its parents, or not fix some animal along its lineage.

This is the diret cause of my misery, frustration, anger, and expense (40 bucks is 40 bucks).

While I think most ENwolders are reasonable people, keep one thing in mind.

A cat is only a pet to you.  To everyone else (potentially) it is a pest.  Not everyone will go to the trouble to humanely trap & turn over a cat to the Animal Shelter.

Keep that in mind the next time you let kitty out the door.

Vraille, who has to listen to pitiful kitten mews all night now, out.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 29, 2007)

Well,

May as well keep a running total in the Thread Title.

So far, we have 1 Kitten Dead, 1 Cat Impounded & 1 Raccoon Relocated.

Last week, we bought the Live Animal Trap & set it out Wed Night.  That morning we had a 4-6 Month white kitten with brown spot cowering in the corner.  It was very scarred & tried to smush itself into the smallest area possible in the cage.  My wife felt very sorry for it, but I assured her that Kittens are pretty easy to adopt.  Sure it was wild, but I felt the Animal Control Lady (her name is Pam) who really loves animals would do everything she could for it.

Then while at work, I got this e-mail....



			
				Wife said:
			
		

> I called the shelter to see about the cat.  See what sex it was.  It was male. Our neighbor was there when she transfered it to another cage.  Our neighbor was
> talking to her and asking her what she's going to do about the other cats.  We'll just have to reset our trap so the mom doesn't have anymore litters.
> 
> Anyway, she said she left it outside so it didn't have to walk past the dogs to the office, and it could calm down for a bit before she tried to take it out of
> ...




In other words, she had to Kill the Kitten.  I'm not a big fan of now having Kitten-Killer on my resume.  And, at some point some individul decided that either that kitten (or one of its direct ancestors) was too much trouble & tossed it out.  My feelings about how Karma should treat whomever that person was aren't really printable here.


Anyway, after Dead Kitten (we were worried we might have an entire litter of feral cats running around), we re-set the Trap on Thursday.

Thursday Morning we had a really annoyed Raccoon.  Not angry, just annoyed.  Gave us that "You better let me out of this thing" Look.  Called Pam at AC.  She laughed & said they have a remote Animal Sanctuary where where they take things like Skunks, Raccoons, Possums & Such.  So the Raccoon has a new home devoid of Transfat, Potato Chips & Old Hot Dogs.  I'm sure he's thrilled.


Then we set out the Trap again yesterday.  This moring we had a small orange tabby mewling in the cage.  We we got close to it, we saw it had a collar & a white belly (as it rolled over, trying to look cute & have us let it out).  It was very friendly & clearly somebody's pet (though the collar had no tags).

We called Pam at AC.  She picked the little guy up.  We've even gone to the difficulty of going door-to-door asking neighbors if they lost a cat.  Anyway, at least this little guy won't be killed.  AC just had a couple of Kittens adopted, so there is a empty cage.  Policy is to keep it 5 days, waiting for an owner to claim it.  It the owner shows up, she can take it home... if she has registered it with the city.  If not, its a $50 Dollar fine & $25 Dollar Registration Fee, provided you can prove its had all its shots.  Do that, they can take it home, with the warning that a 2nd trip to AC carries a $25 Impound Fee (Pam at AC did NOT have nice words to use about people who let their cats run free; then again she's the one in charge of Road-Kill Disposal).

If no one comes forward, the Cat goes up for Adoption.  Its a cute little thing, very tame, and around a year old.  Pam is sure she'll be able to find it a good home.


We still have at least one more stray around here, so the cage will go back out Mon (AC doesn't work the weekends).


I figure I'll just keep a running total.  But to those who let their cats out, a warning (direct from a 15 yr Animal Control professional) not everyone goes to the lengths we do to ensure the animals are not harmed, in fact most people around here treat them like Moles, Rats & other vermin.


----------



## Thunderfoot (Sep 29, 2007)

VD,
Glad you had a 'bonk' moment about the nature of your pest.  It is sad to see the kitten put down for certain, but you did the right thing.  the tabby is just a bewilderment to me, who goes through the bother of getting a cat, taming, giving it a collar...and then just lets it loose.  As I write this my own kitty is cuddled up in 'her box' next to my computer.  It makes me wonder who could say they are taking care of a cat and then let them just have its run of a city...

Bet that 'coon is cursing the day he found your yard though. 

Keep your head up guy.


----------



## Aurora (Sep 29, 2007)

Thunderfoot said:
			
		

> VD,
> the tabby is just a bewilderment to me, who goes through the bother of getting a cat, taming, giving it a collar...and then just lets it loose.



I agree. My tabby cat chose us as owners a few years ago. We opened up our front door and he just walked in and made himself at home. We put notes in every humane society and shelter in the area with our name and number and a description of him. When no one called, we kept him. We was already neutered, de-clawed, and the vet said he was very well taken care of, and around 4 yrs old. He is the best cat I have ever had. The only conclusion we can come to is that he may have been owned by an elderly person who passed away, and the family just turned him out. Vet said it happens all the time. I think that is terrible. 

Hope you get your cat problem under control VD.


----------



## Howndawg (Sep 29, 2007)

Bront said:
			
		

> Or one small & stupid dog
> 
> 
> Edit: Removed stupid.  it's a dog, that's given.




From a dog lover, may I remind you that dogs ARE smarter than cats.  Jack Hannah of the Columbus Zoo says so.    

Howndawg


----------



## Blood Jester (Sep 30, 2007)

Howndawg said:
			
		

> From a dog lover, may I remind you that dogs ARE smarter than cats.  Jack Hannah of the Columbus Zoo says so.
> 
> Howndawg




From a former resident of Columbus, may I remind you that _both_ dogs and cats are smarter than Jack Hannah.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Sep 30, 2007)

Blood Jester said:
			
		

> From a former resident of Columbus, may I remind you that _both_ dogs and cats are smarter than Jack Hannah.




Didn't he recently get stuck in a turnstile with a Flamingo?

Yep, He did


----------



## John Morrow (Oct 1, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> And irresponsible owners have forced me to become a cat killer (if anyone knows of a no-kill shelter near Columbia MO, let me know; I can upgrade from Kitty Killer, to Kitty Jailer).




From my first Google search:

Miller-Roth Foundations - No-kill shelter. 2000 E. Broadway - #141 Columbia, MO. 65201-6009 573-657-9633.

From the first search result that I got: http://metroanimal.org/directory/dog_and_cat_rescue.shtml

Columbia Second Chance
P.O.Box 10186
Columbia, MO 65205
Phone: (573) 445-5598
Email: columbiasecondchance@hotmail.com

From the second search result that I got:
http://www.saveourstrays.com/no-kill.htm

Have you tried any of those?


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Oct 1, 2007)

John Morrow said:
			
		

> From my first Google search:
> 
> Miller-Roth Foundations - No-kill shelter. 2000 E. Broadway - #141 Columbia, MO. 65201-6009 573-657-9633.
> 
> ...




Thanks,

I'll check them out.  I'm still 30 minutes (and 1 county) away, but I'll see what assistance they can give me.

Edit, I sent an Email to them, I'll see what sort of response I get.


----------



## John Morrow (Oct 1, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> I'll check them out.  I'm still 30 minutes (and 1 county) away, but I'll see what assistance they can give me.




Check the whole lists (click on the links).  I'm not an expert on Missouri geography so there might be something on one of those two lists that is closer and one of those sites contains a whole list of links.  That said, you should really try to bring kittens and really young cats to a no-kill shelter and it's a shame that they didn't have time to deal with the first one you caught.  Old feral cats will likely never be adopted but kittens usually can be.  I can understand why you are annoyed by the cats (I have similar feelings toward the groundhogs that tunnel under my foundation) but the kittens probably aren't the ones causing your problems.

My main ire, when it comes to pet cats, is directed at kitten breeders.  Animal shelters contain more than enough kittens and older cats for people to adopt.  They don't need to be making kittens on purpose.  And I'm quite glad that a lot of the big pet stores like Petco no longer carry cats for sale but, instead, give over space to local groups who put animals up for adoption.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Oct 2, 2007)

John Morrow said:
			
		

> Check the whole lists (click on the links).  I'm not an expert on Missouri geography so there might be something on one of those two lists that is closer and one of those sites contains a whole list of links.  That said, you should really try to bring kittens and really young cats to a no-kill shelter and it's a shame that they didn't have time to deal with the first one you caught.  Old feral cats will likely never be adopted but kittens usually can be.  I can understand why you are annoyed by the cats (I have similar feelings toward the groundhogs that tunnel under my foundation) but the kittens probably aren't the ones causing your problems.
> 
> My main ire, when it comes to pet cats, is directed at kitten breeders.  Animal shelters contain more than enough kittens and older cats for people to adopt.  They don't need to be making kittens on purpose.  And I'm quite glad that a lot of the big pet stores like Petco no longer carry cats for sale but, instead, give over space to local groups who put animals up for adoption.




Nope, Columbia is the Closest city of any Size (& the closest on the list).  Plus I commute to Columbia Every day to work.  Our town is small (around 8,000 but is still the largest city in the county by at least a factor of 10).

Was this kitten the cause of our trouble?  Some.  Any cat can rip up your flowerbeds & crap in them.  It was old enough to be on its own (probablly not live long, but enogh to hunt, kill, & tear stuff up).  

Also, we have a lot of dogs in our neighborhood.  And (it turns out) Raccoons, plus I've seen Deer.  Any cat in our area is going to have its territory crossed by one of the following:

1. Raccoons (Cat vs Raccoon is nasty, & a full grown raccoon can do some damage).

2. Possums (Another nasty thing to corner, & also Rabies concern).

3. Skunk (Not a thing you want to poke with a stick).

4. Black Bear (Unconfirmed, but the do live further south, so the Occassional Bear wouldn't be out of the possiblity).

5. Coyote (see Black Bear, but has been sighted around).

6. Cougar (Even less chance than Black Bear, but they have been sighted in MO again).

7. Alligator Snapping Turtle (We've seen these things migrating from pond to pond.  One guy has a Golden Retreiver had its leg bit off by one).

8.  Chicken Farmers.  (There are some local small free-range chicken farmers that WILL take a 22 to any Cat near their hen-house)

9. Ford F-150 Extended Cab (This it the most likely killer of outdoor kitties.  Rare is the week I don't run across at least one cat/dog roadkill on the way to work.).


Actually, outdoor cats here have more enemies than friends.  This doesn't even begin with the Ticks, Fleas, and diseases outdoor cats can catch.

PS.  We now have Armadillos in the area,  Do they attack cats?


----------



## Lewis526 (Oct 2, 2007)

Coyotes and Black Bears are all over the country.

I can't imagine a reason for an armadillo to attack a cat.


----------



## Cabled (Oct 2, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Dude, if your cat can kill dogs . . . .
> 
> THAT'S ONE AMAZING CAT!!!!




About 7 hours straight north of you in that little narrow part called the panhandle is a cattle ranch with a pair of old and wizend barn cats that have indeed killed coyotes, right in the barn.


----------



## Shortman McLeod (Oct 2, 2007)

Elephant said:
			
		

> Please learn to write shorter posts with fewer extraneous spaces between every single sentence.  I got about half a page in and couldn't read anymore because the formatting was too annoying.




Glad someone said it.  It was like reading the rantings of an autistic savant.


----------



## kenobi65 (Oct 2, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> 1. Raccoons (Cat vs Raccoon is nasty, & a full grown raccoon can do some damage).
> 
> 2. Possums (Another nasty thing to corner, & also Rabies concern).




Not sure about where you are, but at least, around here, rabies is considered to be endemic in the raccoon population, as well.



			
				Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> 5. Coyote (see Black Bear, but has been sighted around).




We have a ton of coyotes in the Chicago area; they've even been sighted in the city itself.  I see them semi-regularly now.


----------



## Deset Gled (Oct 2, 2007)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> We have a ton of coyotes in the Chicago area; they've even been sighted in the city itself.  I see them semi-regularly now.




IIRC, those aren't really coyotes.  They're a mix of coyote and normal dogs.  Not that it makes that big of a difference to anyone accept the Animal Control guys that are left with the dillema of whether they're supposed to relocate them as they would a wild animal, or throw them in a pound as they would do to a dog.


----------



## HellHound (Oct 3, 2007)

Jeysie said:
			
		

> Never understood how anyone who cares about their cat could let it outside anyway. I like my kitty safe indoors, where he's clean, healthy, free of fleas and ticks, has nice soft fur, can lounge/cuddle on my bed and chair, and won't get run over by a car or tortured to death by some sicko.




My animals want to be let out.

I let my animals out.

They run freely, both dogs and the one cat who like going outside. The older cat used to like going out, but she's a shut-in now.


----------



## Wystan (Oct 3, 2007)

HellHound said:
			
		

> My animals want to be let out.
> 
> I let my animals out.
> 
> They run freely, both dogs and the one cat who like going outside. The older cat used to like going out, but she's a shut-in now.




Hellhound, I have to say that does not make sense to me:

See the following for why:



			
				Extreme Example said:
			
		

> My *kids* want to *do drugs*.
> 
> I let my *kids do drugs*.
> 
> They *Shoot up* freely, both *boys* and the one* girl* who like *to do drugs*. The older *Girl* used to like *doing drugs*, but she's a *straight-edge* now.




Liking something is not a reason to give in to it at all times....

EDIT - NOT SO EXTREME EXAMPLE



			
				Less Extreme Example said:
			
		

> My *Animals* want to *Drink From the Anti-Freeze Puddle*.
> 
> I let my *Animals Do As They Please*.
> 
> They *Drink From The Anti-Freeze Puddle* freely, both *Dogs* and the one* Cat* who like *To Drink From The Anti-Freeze Puddle*. The older *Cat* used to like *Drinking Anti-Freeze Puddles*, but she's a *DEAD* now.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 3, 2007)

Wystan said:
			
		

> Hellhound, I have to say that does not make sense to me:
> 
> See the following for why




You're seriously comparing letting animals (be it dog/cat/raccoon/whatever) doing what comes naturally to letting your children do drugs?  That is simply one of the most asinine things I've ever read or heard.


----------



## Wystan (Oct 3, 2007)

No, I am using an *Extreme Example* that letting an animal control you is silly. My Bengal and my Ocecat would love to go outside. I do not want them to do so as it is bad for them.

I added a Less Extreme Example of the hazards of letting my animals do as they please.
*
And Note - Anti-Freeze Puddles ARE DEADLY to animals and do not Occur Naturally Inside a House....
*


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Oct 3, 2007)

Wystan said:
			
		

> No, I am using an *Extreme Example* that letting an animal control you is silly. My Bengal and my Ocecat would love to go outside. I do not want them to do so as it is bad for them.
> 
> I added a Less Extreme Example of the hazards of letting my animals do as they please.
> *
> ...



 But by that logic, you shouldn't let your kids go outside and play, either.


----------



## John Morrow (Oct 3, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> Actually, outdoor cats here have more enemies than friends.  This doesn't even begin with the Ticks, Fleas, and diseases outdoor cats can catch.




I've heard that the lifespan of an outdoor cat is something like 5 years on average.  That's why all of our pet cats are indoor-only cats.  It's certainly best to keep pet cats indoor.  But given all the other animals in your area, any of them can be destructive, including birds.  Around here, it's deer that destroy people's yards (NJ has the highest deer density in the United States), rabbits that destroy gardens, raccoons that overturn garbage cans, Canadian Geese that foul lawns and ponds with their doppings (worse than anything you've described and they are protected by law), and so on.  I'll take your word for it about the problems you've been having but we've never had a problem with the sort of stray cats from Hell that you seem to be cursed with.  The main thing that seems to bother people about cats around here i that they use bird feeders as cat feeders, but given that starlings seem to be a big target and they aren't native to North America, I think that's often more good than bad.  Now if we could only get stray cats to eat Canadian Geese, we'd be golden.


----------



## Wystan (Oct 3, 2007)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But by that logic, you shouldn't let your kids go outside and play, either.




No, but they should be supervised until such time as you can be sure that they understand what to do and not to do. Since Animals tend to NOT SPEAK HUMAN LANGUAGES, it is a lot harder to ever be sure they understand (I can tell you that my cat of 5 years still does not understand that yelling for his food when I am 6 inches away causes me to delay the food until he does not yell for 5-6 seconds.)

So as to children going out to play, sure if you feel that your 3 year old (More mentally advanced than most animals I have met) is fine to walk the neighborhood unobserved by you, then by all means do so.


----------



## Jeysie (Oct 3, 2007)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But by that logic, you shouldn't let your kids go outside and play, either.




1. Kids are more intelligent than cats. Not always greatly more intelligent (I did some dumb stuff as a kid...), but still, animals have no clue what is and isn't dangerous for them. Kids you can at least supervise them staying in the playground or the backyard. (I've tried supervising a cat to stay in the backyard. Doesn't work, unless you have a high fence.)

For instance, the other day, I saw a cat very slowly walk across one part of the road... then leisurely sit and get all comfy right smack in the middle of the road. It wasn't until a car went by on the side the cat just left that the cat finally got scared and ran across the rest of the road... and I can tell you that if the car had gone by on the other side instead, one of my neighbors would be minus one cat.

2. Kids have to go outside at some point to live their lives. Cats don't (except snug in a cat carrier to and fro the vet).

3. There are some places out there dangerous enough to kids that parents *don't* let their kids play outside. And since there is a lot more dangers out there to a cat, the same principle applies. If it's a choice between disease, fleas, ticks, becoming roadkill, getting killed by sickos, etc. just so they can run around, pounce things, and lounge... or staying in a nice, safe, clean house where they can *also* (if you set up your house right) run around, pounce things, and lounge... why let the cats outside?

*You* know what's safer, so the animals that don't (and just think, "Ooh, outdoors, shiny!") need you to look after them.

After all, my cat *thinks* he wants to go outside. Then, on the rare occasions he does manage to sneak out on me, he immediately panics and tries running back inside (and generally goes to the wrong door, sigh). Of course, cats being what they are, he generally forgets he didn't enjoy his last excursion and tries sneaking out again... only to be unhappy again if he finally does. An animal wanting to go outside really doesn't mean anything.

Peace & Luv, Liz


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Oct 3, 2007)

I think the thing about cats not knowing what is dangerous is only true for cats that are kept indoors all of the time. Of course, suddenly going outside and seeing cars, etc, really for the first time, is going to produce a different reaction than if they were around them more.

I've had many cats through my life. I've grown up with them, too. All of the cats I've had have lived outside as much as they have inside, and we lived in rather populated areas with all the 'danger'. And yet, never did a cat die to something other than old age. And they also all lived a good ten or so years, longer than people I've known with indoor cats.

Not only that, but they always seemed happier, more energetic...and...well, more cat like when they could go outside and explore.

I completely understand why some people want to keep their cats safe and inside, but the animals are smarter than some like to give them credit for. Maybe I've just been lucky, but hey, that's my experience and its never, ever caused a problem...not even with the people that lived next door.


----------



## cignus_pfaccari (Oct 3, 2007)

Jeysie said:
			
		

> 1. Kids are more intelligent than cats. Not always greatly more intelligent (I did some dumb stuff as a kid...), but still, animals have no clue what is and isn't dangerous for them.




That's an awfully blanket statement that animals have no clue about what's dangerous and what isn't.  Generally, it should be obvious that they often will, for things in their experience.  (Ankh-Morpork Guard pretty much says the same thing, BTW)

Specifically, I've had a mother cat hiss at my mother, brother, and me until we stepped away from the car because one of her kittens was in a spot where it'd be run over.  (She was using that point as a waystation for moving her litter)

My parents' dog has picked up and carried kittens out of the driveway to make sure they wouldn't be run over; she had never seen anything get run over by a car, but had an appreciation for what might happen.  The same dog knows that skunks are bad, and will give them a respectful distance when escorting them away from the house.  (That this dog had a habit of playing in the road and once managed to catch the truck she was chasing is possible evidence of a higher power that watches out for fools...and she runs from Mom when Mom comes out with rubber gloves, because that means flea treatment)

Now, both of those examples illustrate the point, which is that if they are completely new to their surroundings, they might be unaware of hazards or dangers.  But if they aren't completely new, they'll develop an idea of what's dangerous and what's not.  This may mean a period of natural selection, as they learn that there are potential predators about or that traffic is bad.  

Brad


----------



## Jeysie (Oct 3, 2007)

cignus_pfaccari said:
			
		

> Now, both of those examples illustrate the point, which is that if they are completely new to their surroundings, they might be unaware of hazards or dangers.  But if they aren't completely new, they'll develop an idea of what's dangerous and what's not.  This may mean a period of natural selection, as they learn that there are potential predators about or that traffic is bad.




And therein lies the problem... what doesn't kill you might make you stronger/wiser... but it has to not kill you first. A cat during their first few excursions might not realize a car, kid, or animal is dangerous at first - and they may live to learn otherwise, and they may not.

I'd rather not take the risk when a well-loved and played-with cat will be perfectly healthy and happy indoors. (I always get compliments from the vet on how healthy my cat is, and all I really do is feed and love him.  )

I've lost a kitty that ran away and got hit by a car... and I've known a lot of people who've lost cats to cars, twisted neighbors, and diseases. And even if you escape all that, there's having to deal with flea baths and cleaning dirty kitties. Seems like a unnecessary risk/hassle to take.

Peace & Luv, Liz


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Oct 4, 2007)

Jeysie said:
			
		

> I've lost a kitty that ran away and got hit by a car... and I've known a lot of people who've lost cats to cars, twisted neighbors, and diseases. And even if you escape all that, there's having to deal with flea baths and cleaning dirty kitties. Seems like a unnecessary risk/hassle to take.




Again, all of those things apply to kids just as much.

Well, not as much with flea baths. 

But as I said, I completely understand why some people prefer their cats to stay inside. In fact, for some cats, its definitely better. But, at the same time, this isn't neccessarily true for ALL cats. Or all pets for that matter. That's really where my sticking point on all of this is, as I've seen cats that love the outdoors and live just fine out there as much as inside for many, many years.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 4, 2007)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But as I said, I completely understand why some people prefer their cats to stay inside. In fact, for some cats, its definitely better. But, at the same time, this isn't neccessarily true for ALL cats. Or all pets for that matter. That's really where my sticking point on all of this is, as I've seen cats that love the outdoors and live just fine out there as much as inside for many, many years.




Pretty much summed up my thoughts.

My cats stay inside because I don't trust my neighbors not to kill them or have them locked up.  That's a price I pay for living where I am (in the city, near the university).  If I had the option, I would definitely let them out if I thought it was okay.  Then, if someone came to me and told me they were digging up flower beds and crapping all over everything, I might re-evaluate whether letting them out is okay.  That said, I don't think that letting pets outside is inherently bad, as some people in this thread seem to.


----------



## OakwoodDM (Oct 4, 2007)

Now, I realise things may be different for me because the outside is less dangerous in England than in America (no coyotes, bears, or raccoons, and considerably fewer people with guns) but both the cats we've had have been outside cats, both have been healthy, happy animals, and both have lived to well over 10 years and died of natural causes, and I fully plan to allow the cat I get next to be an outside cat. Of course, as others have said, if someone complains about my cat's behaviour, things might change, but until then, it's natural cats all the way for me.


----------



## Jeysie (Oct 4, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> That said, I don't think that letting pets outside is inherently bad, as some people in this thread seem to.




I don't think it's *always* bad. If I lived in a house like one of my uncles does, where there's a ton of wilderness isolated from roads, people, and hazards, and without any cat-eating animals living in it, I would let my cats out to play. Just that I'm willing to venture most cat-owners (in the US, at least) don't live in that sort of place. And even if I could afford to live in that sort of place, I wouldn't, because I'd go nuts being that far away from everything.

Plus, cats don't *need* to go out. It's nice, yes, but if the owner takes care to provide their kitty with lots of stimulating toys and attention, an indoor cat will be just as playful. I suppose I'm as baffled at the backlash about keeping an indoor cat as some people are baffled at the reaction towards wanting to let a cat outside.

Plus, sometimes a given cat doesn't even need that much stimulation. My cat ignores most of the toys I buy him and my attempts to play... he'd rather alternate between lounging on the bed and rubbing me up and meowing until I pet and cuddle with him. I think he sneaks outside more because he's incredibly curious about anything new (he hates *any* closed doors) than an actual desire to be outside.

Peace & Luv, Liz


----------



## ceratitis (Oct 4, 2007)

best of luck
i suggest you try to be as calm as possible before going over to talk to the cat owners as last years saga really isnt their fault and it may force them to be defencive. other then that have you tried pepper spraying the cat when ever you find it in your yard? i'm no expert but it sounds like the cat would learn to avoid you and your yard.
hope all goes well


----------



## Aurora (Oct 5, 2007)

Ceratitis, your sig makes me laugh every time I see a post from you.


----------



## Lewis526 (Oct 6, 2007)

Wystan said:
			
		

> My Bengal and my Ocecat would love to go outside. I do not want them to do so as it is bad for them.




You have an indoor tiger?


----------



## Bront (Oct 6, 2007)

Wystan said:
			
		

> Hellhound, I have to say that does not make sense to me:
> 
> See the following for why:
> 
> ...



Apparently you're not aware, but Hellhound owns a several acre farm (I believe).  It's a little different for him that it is for others.

I do let my cat out, but she was raised an indoor cat, and I rarely see her leave our property, and she actualy prefers to use her litter box to do her business.  She's also been declawed, and tends to run before she fights.  She is also tagged.


----------



## John Morrow (Oct 6, 2007)

OakwoodDM said:
			
		

> (no coyotes, bears, or raccoons, and considerably fewer people with guns)




It's also large birds of prey.  Cat collars get found in eagle's nests.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Oct 9, 2007)

OK. For some reason my long, well thought out post just got eaten by the system.

So, a summary:

No-Kill Shelter: They only take Tame Animals from the Columbia Humane Society. (IE those the they can find a home for easily). The Humans society has so many strays, a lot of tame cats still don't get adopted. Dead in.


It is for your Cat that I started this. In my county, once your cat is off your property it becomes a "Non-Native Nuisance Animal", & it has a very clearly defined legal status. Namely proper methods of "Eradication".

The Live Trapping I do is a preferred method, but not the only one.

1. Shooting the cat dead is valid method of eradication (however, discharging a firearm in the city limits is a no-no) 

2. Poisoning is valid (with the proper permit, which requires lots of training and a State Certificate).

3. Beating it to death is OK. (This one gets really fuzzy, as Animal Cruelty can also fit in here).

The simple fact is (in my area) a cat beyond your property is a potential Pest and may be treated as such. I live in an agrarian area that has historicaly seen a lot of farming (esp chickens). Many other people raise Rabbits (the meat pen variety), Pheasent, Quail, Turkeys and other things lower on the food chain than a cat. These farmers wont mess around, a cat (or other varmit) on their land is NOT going to be making it off again. A Grand Champion Chicken is worth quite a bit of cash.

If you really want to let your cat run around outside, feel free to do so. But in my area, if he doesn't come back, that's sort of what "Non-Native Nuisance Animal" & "Eradication" Mean.

Your laws (and people's attitudes) may vary.


----------



## Wystan (Oct 9, 2007)

Lewis526 said:
			
		

> You have an indoor tiger?




www.bengalcat.com


----------



## Terraism (Oct 10, 2007)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> But as I said, I completely understand why some people prefer their cats to stay inside. In fact, for some cats, its definitely better. But, at the same time, this isn't neccessarily true for ALL cats. Or all pets for that matter. That's really where my sticking point on all of this is, as I've seen cats that love the outdoors and live just fine out there as much as inside for many, many years.



My family has a cat that's just shy of seventeen years old.  He has lived outside his entire life - first, in San Diego suburbs, and then, for the last ten years, in northern Vermont.  Year-round, 24/7.  He's been inside the house for more than a few minutes only when sick (twice) or when we had a family of _vicious_ critters living under our garage.

At seventeen, he's still going strong - though a little slower than he used to be - and one of the smartest animals I've ever known, and I tend not to appreciate animal intelligence much.  He's friendly, well-behaved, and cared for.  (Truly - I know some will be gasping in horror at the prospect of leaving him out in winter, but we do provide a covered lean-to shelter with some mild heating elements that stays moderately warm during the colder months.)  If he's ever done property damage, which I doubt, it's never been spoken of in the neighborhood.

Long post, anyway, only to point out that cats, in fact, do not _need_ to be kept indoors - and they can do well without.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Oct 15, 2007)

Wife said:
			
		

> Ok, good news.  The orange and white cat got adopted.
> The woman that used to help her out at the shelter
> came by to visit and adopted him.  He was so nice that
> she couldn't resist.  The other cat was so feral that
> ...




New Total:  Cats Dead: 2; Cats Adopted: 1; Raccoons forcibly put on all Natural Diet:1

Well, that's 2 Cats Dead now.  THis one was so feral it spit, hissed, & nearly knocked itself unconcious when we got within 20' of it.  Animal Control had to take the whole cage with her, then use some of the special equipment to get the cat out & return our cage.  It was raining today, so she is going to give it some time to "Cool Down" to see if it is tame enough to keep (and she felt the need to assure us, it showed no signs of Rabies).  Barring a complete 180 of this cats attitude, its going to be put to sleep in a day or two.

As for the little, friendly orange cat:

It clearly belonged to somebody.  It was very tame, worked well with others, and they had to pick straws to determine who got to adopt it.  Whoever owned it never bothered to register it, so they never really owned it.  Animal Control kept it for 5 days, when no one claimed it, it went up for adoption (which took less than 48 hours).  We never found anyone who was missing a cat.  It might have been dumped.

Or someone is out there wondering where their kitty is & what happened to it.  They'll never know.

If they had bothered to collar & register their cat (or the microchip thingy), they would have gotten a call from Animal Control about their cat & a warning not to let him play where he could get hurt.

At least he's in a good home now.  I feel sorry for the 2 Cats that got put down & I'm sure the raccoon is cursing us as his diet of A&W & Donuts is now Frogs & Nuts.

So far:

4 Cans of Bait Used:

4 Animals Trapped:

100% Effective


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Oct 20, 2007)

Well,

I think we got all the rogue cats (for now).

Last time we set out the trap, we got a possum (incidentally, the most aggressive, people-scared critters we got were the cats; the Raccoon & the Possum were really laid back).

But, the Squirrels have returned to our yard (the utterly vanished due to the cats).  I figure the squirrels are a good barometer of Cat Activity (in addiition to cat crap in the flower beds).

I hope my cat problem is taken care of, but eventually some more will show up.

PS.  Since the Racoon got nabbed; the Casey's down the street hasn't had anything get into their trash.  Yep, goodbye Pizza & Doughnuts, hello grubs & bugs.

Heaven help us if that Raccoon ever finds his way back to our house.


----------



## frankthedm (Oct 20, 2007)

Vraille Darkfang said:
			
		

> Last time we set out the trap, we got a possum (incidentally, the most aggressive, people-scared critters we got were the cats; the Raccoon & the Possum were really laid back).



Surprising. The possum's I have seen have been very unpleasant in demenor.  I kind of think of them as the north american dire rat.


----------

