# Why no politics or religion?



## STARP_JVP

I'm just curious as to why politics and religion are taboo or banned subjects on this forum, and the other EN World forums too? Did something happen before I got here than warranted the ban? I can believe it has something to do with tempers running hot and emotions flaring and so on, but surely we're all adults who can take a bit of healthy debate, aren't we? I mean, why this censorship? I'm just asking?


----------



## Haradim

STARP_JVP said:
			
		

> but surely we're all adults who can take a bit of healthy debate, aren't we?




The internet has repeatedly proven that the answer to that question is 'no'.

It almost always leads to flamewars and administration headaches.


----------



## mojo1701

Definitely proven, and you REALLY don't want to add fuel to whatever small flames there are.


----------



## DaveMage

Haradim said:
			
		

> The internet has repeatedly proven that the answer to that question is 'no'.
> 
> It almost always leads to flamewars and administration headaches.




Got it in one.


----------



## BiggusGeekus

STARP_JVP said:
			
		

> I mean, why this censorship? I'm just asking?




Well you could say that you just hit it right there.  It isn't censorship.  This is a privately owned site.  

RPG.net has a forum for politics and the like.  There was a sister site of ENWorld called "Nutkinland" which basically acted as the overflow for all the topics you couldn't discuss here.  It isn't currently up though.  I don't know why.


----------



## msd

Speaking for me personally...

I like the fact that the discussion is limited.  I come here for discussions about gaming and the restrictions that are in place work to ensure a high signal to noise ratio.  

Don't get me wrong...I love discussing religion and politics and don't even mind a heated discussion with a little good ol' name calling thrown in for good measure, but I would rather do that on a board that is dedicated to that kind of thing.

Anyhoo, that's me...YMMV.


----------



## Psionicist

Because [those with opinions you don't agree with] can't handle the truth and are very immature, unlike the geniuses amongst [those you agree with] who can handle a debate or two. Of course.


----------



## William Ronald

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Well you could say that you just hit it right there.  It isn't censorship.  This is a privately owned site.
> 
> RPG.net has a forum for politics and the like.  There was a sister site of ENWorld called "Nutkinland" which basically acted as the overflow for all the topics you couldn't discuss here.  It isn't currently up though.  I don't know why.





This is Morrus' site, which allows him to limit the rules.  This site is about gaming, and Morrus (as well as Eric Noah before him) decided to not include political and religious discussion on the boards.

I think it is possible to have a good discussion on politics and religion, and I believe such dialogues are good for individuals and societies.  However, people can become easily offended when they believe their beliefs are under attack.  This can often degenerate into name calling and personal attacks. By that point, it is rare that any meaningful discussion takes place.  (i will coment on politics and religion elsewhere, but I believe in following the rules of any message board that I am on -- out of respect for the people who keep it running.)

STARP_JVP, there is no shortage of blogs and websites to talk about politics and religions from many different perspectives.  I think that these boards have benefitted by being focused on gaming.  However, there are several excellent boards such as RPG.Net and Nothingland, the current name of Nutkinland, that have some good discussions on politics, gaming,  religion and other topics.  (Biggus Geekus, Cyberzombie said that Nothingland is down this week for some maintenance work. So, Nothingland will return soon.)  

There have been some good discussions on these boards about using real world religions and religious texts as a source for gaming. Unfortunately, many of these threads end up being shut down by people inserting sarcastic or offensive comments.    Sadly, there are many people who are adults who don't act like adults or show respect to any opinions that differ from their own.


----------



## Mystery Man

This should go in Meta. 


I'm not a moderator but I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.


----------



## Randolpho

I think they should include trolling and flamebaiting in the ban, but hey, that's me.


----------



## Dark Jezter

STARP_JVP said:
			
		

> I'm just curious as to why politics and religion are taboo or banned subjects on this forum, and the other EN World forums too? Did something happen before I got here than warranted the ban? I can believe it has something to do with tempers running hot and emotions flaring and so on, but surely we're all adults who can take a bit of healthy debate, aren't we? I mean, why this censorship? I'm just asking?



 Hi!  I'm DJ, you must be new to the internet, so let me explain a time-tested online truth to you: 99.999% of internet message board threads about politics or religion inevitably deteriorate into flamewars.  Those two topics can cause even the most mild-mannered forum poster to become an arrogant, self-righteous loudmouth who is willing to insult those who don't agree with them.  Thankfully, the ENWorld moderators have chosen to ban those two topics entirely.


----------



## Darkness

Questions about the boards go in Meta. Moved. 



			
				BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> There was a sister site of ENWorld called "Nutkinland" which basically acted as the overflow for all the topics you couldn't discuss here.  It isn't currently up though.  I don't know why.



http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=144018


----------



## Hand of Evil

I think it is interesting that I grew up with that rule; that it was impolite to discuss religion and politics in mixed company, it was part of being civil.  

How the world has changed.


----------



## Zappo

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I think it is interesting that I grew up with that rule; that it was impolite to discuss religion and politics in mixed company, it was part of being civil.
> 
> How the world has changed.



I think that half the problem is that people don't perceive other messageboard posters as "their company", but as some sort of smart postbot. I routinely read posts that I just can't see a civil person saying to the other guy's face. 

Personally, I've adopted the following guideline: never write something that I wouldn't say in front of the person I'm replying to.


----------



## diaglo

Zappo said:
			
		

> Personally, I've adopted the following guideline: never write something that I wouldn't say in front of the person I'm replying to.





i grew up with HoE. i mean with the same rules. never discuss politics or religion in mixed company.

but i also follow Zappo's guidelines.

everything i type i'd say in public.


----------



## ColonelHardisson

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> There was a sister site of ENWorld called "Nutkinland" which basically acted as the overflow for all the topics you couldn't discuss here.  It isn't currently up though.  I don't know why.




First, Nutkinland is now Nothingland. It isn't up because Thomas Heretic, the admin, is moving and needs to have it down for a while, a week or so.

Second, NKL/NTL has evolved away from being a pressure valve/spillover site for EN World. While many of its denizens are former or current EN Worlders, the site is independent of this site.


----------



## DaveMage

You can also discuss politics with gamers on Sean K Reynolds' boards. 

Though there are certainly representatives from all sides there, be advised that Sean is, shall we say, a tad left of center.    

However, IMO he runs his boards very fairly and, unless people get personal and nasty, he doesn't censor.  Definitely read the forum rules first, though.


----------



## BiggusGeekus

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> Second, NKL/NTL has evolved away from being a pressure valve/spillover site for EN World. While many of its denizens are former or current EN Worlders, the site is independent of this site.




Noted.

So, in the future, should I still reccomend NTL?


----------



## S'mon

Randomlings House is a good place to discuss religion & politics with gamers in a polite & friendly atmosphere - its rule is "don't say anything you wouldn't say around a game table", which seems to work very well.  See:

http://www.randomlingshouse.net/viewforum.php?f=4&sid=07c2bdb3f39300207a8d310d91b4ef6f


----------



## Henry

The ENWorldian Catechism:

_In the beginning Eric created the Grandma, and she was good. She acted as a natural respector of peers, and the people did know how to obey her. And the rules were without form, and void, and people understood the implied rules of civility.

And yea, as the board did grow, so did the implied respect become lost in the telling. And so to combat the most spurious of arguments that caused flames, did Eric craft the Adamantine Rule: No Politics or Religion, lest ye be cast into the void that is rec.games.frp.dnd.  And the Grandma filled in the rest.

And the Morrus did come, and take over for the Eric, and he took upon himself the Adamantine Rule and the Grandma, and it was good.


GREYHAWK.*_

----------------------------------------

Religious and Political discussion have always caused some of the worst arguments, and more importantly it destroys the primary focus of these forums: The games we play. Without it, or (at worst) keeping religious or political references solely in a gaming context, it's not only fostered friendships, it's helped a bunch of people who would normally never even game together to become friends and acquaintences! Some threads may skirt the line, but that's why mods have the discretion that they do, to single out the threads that cause problems, versus those that offers something productive.


*That's my version of "Amen."


----------



## Algolei

STARP_JVP said:
			
		

> I'm just curious as to why politics and religion are taboo or banned subjects on this forum, and the other EN World forums too?



When it comes to politics, I'm a big dumb jerk and so is everybody else.


----------



## Staffan

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Noted.
> 
> So, in the future, should I still reccomend NTL?



It's still a pretty funny place to talk politics and religion, yes. It even has a forum especially for volatile stuff (Exculcero Sermo).


----------



## Belen

Randolpho said:
			
		

> I think they should include trolling and flamebaiting in the ban, but hey, that's me.




One man's troll maybe another man's half-orc.


----------



## Zander

Henry said:
			
		

> The ENWorldian Catechism:
> 
> _In the beginning Eric created the Grandma, and she was good. She acted as a natural respector of peers, and the people did know how to obey her. And the rules were without form, and void, and people understood the implied rules of civility._
> 
> _And yea, as the board did grow, so did the implied respect become lost in the telling. And so to combat the most spurious of arguments that caused flames, did Eric craft the Adamantine Rule: No Politics or Religion, lest ye be cast into the void that is rec.games.frp.dnd.  And the Grandma filled in the rest._
> 
> _And the Morrus did come, and take over for the Eric, and he took upon himself the Adamantine Rule and the Grandma, and it was good._



That wouldn't be a religious post, would it?  

Just kidding. 

Seriously though, I do feel that the mods are sometimes a bit too quick to close threads that verge on being political and/or religious but aren't properly. Talking about real world politics or religion as it relates, for example, to a particular player in someone's RPG group or gamers in general is not by itself political or religious. It's the difference between politics and political science/political sociology; or for that matter, between religion and theology.


----------



## diaglo

BelenUmeria said:
			
		

> One man's troll maybe another man's half-orc.



true OD&D trolls bred with gnomes to create gnolls.


----------



## William Ronald

Zander said:
			
		

> That wouldn't be a religious post, would it?
> 
> Just kidding.
> 
> Seriously though, I do feel that the mods are sometimes a bit too quick to close threads that verge on being political and/or religious but aren't properly. Talking about real world politics or religion as it relates, for example, to a particular player in someone's RPG group or gamers in general is not by itself political or religious. It's the difference between politics and political science/political sociology; or for that matter, between religion and theology.





There have been some good discussions that were related to religion.  For example, I participated in a discussion with other Jewish gamers on the boards about how we deal with following our faith and gaming.  (I think the impetus for this was a discussion about what to do on a Saturday at Gen Con.)  I think it is one thing to talk about how religion relates to a particular player, and another thing to discuss the validity of various beliefs.


----------



## Merlion

I understand the reasoning behind it, but since people can and do get in equally heated and unpleasant arguements about the very topics of the boards...gaming, fantasy/sci fi/horror books/movies/television, or various other non-religious non-political topics such as various socialogical, gender, or sexual issues or what have you, I dont really see how it does much good, and really just puts limits on things. But thats fine, it is a privately operated site and therefore only the operators opinions really matter.


I do however think that it some times needs to be remembered more that 1) fantasy is based on and about things that ~were~ "religion" after a fashion, at one time and especially now with the rise of "paganism", to some still are and so some mixing of "religion" and fantasy is almost impossible to avoid. Same to a lesser extent with politics. Not to mention discussion of in-game alignment that relates directly to issues of morality and ethics. And 2) for many people there beliefs and there interests are tied together very strongly and discussing anything of interest while totally avoiding things considered to fall under "religion" or politics can be hard.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard

Merlion said:
			
		

> I understand the reasoning behind it, but since people can and do get in equally heated and unpleasant arguements about the very topics of the boards...gaming, fantasy/sci fi/horror books/movies/television, or various other non-religious non-political topics such as various socialogical, gender, or sexual issues or what have you, I dont really see how it does much good, and really just puts limits on things.




Yes, but politics and religion start WARS...real wars, too. Not just the flame wars that can result from the other stuff.


----------



## Morrus

Merlion said:
			
		

> I understand the reasoning behind it, but since people can and do get in equally heated and unpleasant arguements about the very topics of the boards...gaming, fantasy/sci fi/horror books/movies/television, or various other non-religious non-political topics such as various socialogical, gender, or sexual issues or what have you, I dont really see how it does much good, and really just puts limits on things.




The difference is that those things can, sometimes, potentially cause arguments -- but politics and religion do, almost always, 95% of the time cause arguments.  Maybe it's the nature of the internet, but the phenomenon exists.  And moderators don't want to, and can't be expected to, spend all their free time monitoring these things.


----------



## Merlion

> Yes, but politics and religion start WARS...real wars, too





I disagree entirely with that, at least as far as "religion"...or rather faith. But I digress





> The difference is that those things can, sometimes, potentially cause arguments -- but politics and religion do, almost always, 95% of the time cause arguments





I can only partially agree with that. However, I am a person who loves to debate so that may have something to do with it. I just dont, personally, believe that there would be all that many more fights than there are already...to me its a matter of the specific people, not the subject. People who are going to be civil are going to be civil, and those who arent, arent.


But, like I said, its your site, so you can do whatever you want, and it doesnt generally bother me or anything...I was just stating my view. As long as its understood that those subjects...especially "religion" because of the nature of fantasy...cannot be totally avoided, it doesnt bother me. Although there are times when I wish courtesy were enforced as totally as the no politics/religion rule (although I must say since I've been back at ENworld this time around, I've seen a lot more of mods pouncing on rude posts which I apreciate hugely)


----------



## Morrus

Merlion said:
			
		

> I can only partially agree with that. However, I am a person who loves to debate so that may have something to do with it. I just dont, personally, believe that there would be all that many more fights than there are already...




Thing is, I'm not basing this on some arbitrary off-the-wall opinion.  I'm basing it on historical  observation on these very boards.  Political and religious posts do occasionally slip under the mods' radar, and when we eventually see them, they're _always_ already full scale flame wars.

Anyway, as you said, it's kinda moot anyway.  That's how this place has always been and that's how it'll always be.


----------



## Turjan

Morrus said:
			
		

> Thing is, I'm not basing this on some arbitrary off-the-wall opinion.  I'm basing it on historical  observation on these very boards.  Political and religious posts do occasionally slip under the mods' radar, and when we eventually see them, they're _always_ already full scale flame wars.



This is true, I've seen this myself. I wouldn't have believed it if I hadn't seen it. It was also a surprise how some people I considered very even-tempered went completely mad. It's probably better the way it is .


----------



## Aust Diamondew

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Yes, but politics and religion start WARS...real wars, too. Not just the flame wars that can result from the other stuff.



 I don't think anyone has started a war because of what someone said about their beliefs on the internet.  I suppose it's only a matter of time...

Wouldn't it be ironic if this threat became a flame war?  Then we wouldn't be allowed to discuss the ban on discussing religion or politics.


----------



## STARP_JVP

Morrus said:
			
		

> Anyway, as you said, it's kinda moot anyway. That's how this place has always been and that's how it'll always be.




That's a political statement right there, you know.


----------



## S'mon

Zander said:
			
		

> Seriously though, I do feel that the mods are sometimes a bit too quick to close threads that verge on being political and/or religious but aren't properly. Talking about real world politics or religion as it relates, for example, to a particular player in someone's RPG group or gamers in general is not by itself political or religious. It's the difference between politics and political science/political sociology; or for that matter, between religion and theology.




That's my feeling also.


----------



## S'mon

Merlion said:
			
		

> Although there are times when I wish courtesy were enforced as totally as the no politics/religion rule (although I must say since I've been back at ENworld this time around, I've seen a lot more of mods pouncing on rude posts which I apreciate hugely)




Enforcement of the no-rudeness rule does seem much stricter now than it was a couple of years ago.


----------



## Chiaroscuro23

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I think it is interesting that I grew up with that rule; that it was impolite to discuss religion and politics in mixed company, it was part of being civil.
> 
> How the world has changed.




That's pretty much the rule in American culture. It's different on the internet. As others have noted, not being able to see others takes away some self-restraint, as well. The two combine for a fairly low signal-to-noise ratio among the flames.

FWIW, I kinda wish it were acceptable to discuss politics (civilly) in person, too.

And, as long as we're on the subject, how close to politics can you get around here, anyway? Can I quote the President in my sig? Can I use a nation's flag as my avatar? May I link to my blog, opinion column, or local paper? If we're dicussing a fantasy work that has libertarian themes may I point them out? May I critique them?

Thanks!


----------



## Dinkeldog

Chiaroscuro23 said:
			
		

> That's pretty much the rule in American culture. It's different on the internet. As others have noted, not being able to see others takes away some self-restraint, as well. The two combine for a fairly low signal-to-noise ratio among the flames.
> 
> FWIW, I kinda wish it were acceptable to discuss politics (civilly) in person, too.
> 
> And, as long as we're on the subject, how close to politics can you get around here, anyway? Can I quote the President in my sig? Can I use a nation's flag as my avatar? May I link to my blog, opinion column, or local paper? If we're dicussing a fantasy work that has libertarian themes may I point them out? May I critique them?
> 
> Thanks!




Please don't; please don't (since it's bound to be politically motivated--if he's commenting on his D&D campaign that's different); yes (but not altered); please don't; and only in the context of the fantasy work; only in the context of the fantasy work and the workability of the campaign.  

Remember, whenever you think you're skirting the rules, you're probably breaking them, at least in spirit.  That's rude to the other board members, and that's a big part of what we want to avoid.


----------



## Dagger75

I do have a solution, if everyone just agrees I am right then there would be no flamewars and we could discuss politics and religion.


----------



## James Heard

As a rather dedicated poster to other (previously mentioned) boards that allow politics I can only say that I'm very, very glad that ENWorld is what it is. ENWorld is too large to effectively police religious and political commentary while maintaining the grandma and other politeness rules. I imagine that a site of ENWorld's size _could _do it, but it would have to have grown up with that burden from a smaller one and rely on a tremendous amount of peer pressure (like we've got here concerning the other rules really). I distinctly remember in 1989 watching my very first political/religious argument on my BBS, and that disrupted mail feeds for weeks - the world hasn't changed that much and the internet isn't calmer for having more opinions in it.


----------



## Psionicist

Dinkeldog said:
			
		

> Please don't; please don't (since it's bound to be politically motivated--if he's commenting on his D&D campaign that's different); yes (but not altered); please don't; and only in the context of the fantasy work; only in the context of the fantasy work and the workability of the campaign.
> 
> Remember, whenever you think you're skirting the rules, you're probably breaking them, at least in spirit.  That's rude to the other board members, and that's a big part of what we want to avoid.




You should probably remove this avatar then: http://www.enworld.org/member.php?userid=1213


----------



## ColonelHardisson

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Noted.
> 
> So, in the future, should I still reccomend NTL?




I can't speak for NTL/NKL as a whole, of course, but as a member of that community, I think it's fine to recommend the site in general. I don't think recommending it as a place to continue EN World arguments and debates about religion and politics is something the denizens appreciate, though - there is even a "Go Back To EN World!" smiley that gets some use. Discussing subjects that are taboo here is OK, but NTL/NKL shouldn't be seen as a dumping ground for those here at EN World who wanna cuss and fight or continue arguments from locked EN World threads; it should be seen as a community in and of itself, and enjoyed as such.


----------



## Cyberzombie

BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Noted.
> 
> So, in the future, should I still reccomend NTL?




Sure.  We still dig the refuse of ENWorld.


----------



## Cyberzombie

Politics and religion topics always blow up.  Always.  We've been at this long enough to know this for 100% certain.  Morrus doesn't even have to think about it at this point.


----------



## Darkness

Psionicist said:
			
		

> You should probably remove this avatar then: http://www.enworld.org/member.php?userid=1213



 Like Dinkeldog said, a flag is okay as long as you don't do something to it. This one seems fine to me.


----------



## Arbiter of Wyrms

*BEWARE: Political post*

[sblock]I'll post this before this (increasingly political) thread is shut down:

Sometimes, I honestly wish real-world governments worked more like ENWorld administration:

We have strong participation from the masses, and everyone gets a chance to opine.

A small group of experienced, reasonably wise, and consistently considerate moderators have the power and authority to police the activities here, to fulfill reasonable requests of members, and are exceedingly accessable to the masses.

The more individual members contribute to the well-being of the site (i.e. donations, community supporter accounts), the more benefits and priveledges they receive (Search, Private Messaging, Custom User Titles and Who's Online).

It helps that we all have something in common - a sense of community (and a love for it: see the link in my sig).[/sblock]


----------



## William Ronald

Well, checking the guidelines is a good idea if you are in doubt if a post is appropriate.  As for myself, I try not to post anything that I would not say to someone in person.




			
				Cyberzombie said:
			
		

> Politics and religion topics always blow up. Always. We've been at this long enough to know this for 100% certain. Morrus doesn't even have to think about it at this point.





I believe you are absolutely correct.   So, I think that the current rules work for this site.  I think EN World, like other sites, has its own identity. So, I think allowing politics and religion threads would change this place.  (James Heard also made a great point about how difficult it would be to police such threads with the other rules on these boards.)


----------



## Darkness

William Ronald said:
			
		

> I try not to post anything that I would not say to someone in person.



 Heh. I'm quite a bit more restrained on the internet than in person, as my kind of humor (and I should note that I constantly find humor in most things, including politics) can be harder to do well when you can't hear me.







			
				William Ronald said:
			
		

> (James Heard also made a great point about how difficult it would be to police such threads with the other rules on these boards.)



 Yeah. Politics seem to bring out the worst in many people. For example, RPG.net moderation usually seems relatively light, but IMX they apparently nonetheless have to ban comparatively more people than we do - many, if not most, over consistently grossly inappropriate behavior in politics threads.


----------



## William Ronald

Darkness said:
			
		

> Heh. I'm quite a bit more restrained on the internet than in person, as my kind of humor (and I should note that I constantly find humor in most things, including politics) can be harder to do well when you can't hear me. Yeah. Politics seem to bring out the worst in many people. For example, RPG.net moderation usually seems relatively light, but IMX they apparently nonetheless have to ban comparatively more people than we do - many, if not most, over consistently grossly inappropriate behavior in politics threads.





I tend to be a bit more restrained online as well.  I think that part of the problem is that some things that we take for granted in offline communication -- tone of voice, facial expressions, and gestures -- are hard to do online.  Smilies help, but they are not quite up to the task.

As for humor, I like to think that a sense of humor is a sign of sanity. -- and a great way of coping with an imperfect world.  (Heck, it helps me in dealing with some of the silliness I have dealt with in the last year.  Fortunately, I have cleared most of this up.) Also, as someone who used to cover politicians as a reporter, some have provided a few chuckles over the years.

Now to relate this to gaming, the main focus of the boards, you can have politics and religion be themes in gaming.  I recall Shadowrun had something akin to political debate clubs, and you can always have a politician as a friend, foe, or obstacle in a game.

There are many good places online for meaningful discussions.  However, I think EN World has suceeded in part by having a focus on gaming rather than tryign to be all things to all people.


----------



## Dinkeldog

Psionicist said:
			
		

> You should probably remove this avatar then: http://www.enworld.org/member.php?userid=1213




I don't get the animation any more.  Now, if in the animation something happened to the flag other than waving, then it would need to be removed.  Likewise, feel free to have a Canadian flag flapping in the breeze.


----------



## Psionicist

Dinkeldog said:
			
		

> I don't get the animation any more.  Now, if in the animation something happened to the flag other than waving, then it would need to be removed.  Likewise, feel free to have a Canadian flag flapping in the breeze.




Ah, thanks!


----------



## the Jester

I'm much more polite on ENWorld than in person.   I cuss, make inappropriate jokes, test how easily offended people are, talk about politics, talk about religion, talk about sex, offer my opinion about your mom, etc. in person.  Online, I try very hard to avoid doing or posting anything that might be misinterpreted or taken wrong.  I once was one of the people involved in getting a thread closed- another poster _pissed me off_- but immediately afterwards, I felt so bad that I posted an apology thread.   

(Of course, the other poster involved emailed me to cuss me out and call me names. :rollseyes: Go figure...)


----------



## Mark CMG

STARP_JVP said:
			
		

> Why no politics or religion?





_I think it's a Beatles lyric..._


----------



## diaglo

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> _I think it's a Beatles lyric..._



all we are saying is give piece a chance


----------



## reveal

diaglo said:
			
		

> all we are saying is give piece a chance




i like peas


----------



## nothing to see here

Merlion said:
			
		

> I understand the reasoning behind it, but since people can and do get in equally heated and unpleasant arguements about the very topics of the boards...gaming, fantasy/sci fi/horror books/movies/television, or various other non-religious non-political topics such as various socialogical, gender, or sexual issues or what have you, I dont really see how it does much good, and really just puts limits on things. But thats fine, it is a privately operated site and therefore only the operators opinions really matter.
> 
> 
> I do however think that it some times needs to be remembered more that 1) fantasy is based on and about things that ~were~ "religion" after a fashion, at one time and especially now with the rise of "paganism", to some still are and so some mixing of "religion" and fantasy is almost impossible to avoid. Same to a lesser extent with politics. Not to mention discussion of in-game alignment that relates directly to issues of morality and ethics. And 2) for many people there beliefs and there interests are tied together very strongly and discussing anything of interest while totally avoiding things considered to fall under "religion" or politics can be hard.




Tell me about it.  I work in a central political office.  I used to be a professional campaign organizer.  I'm afraid to even breathe a hint of who I've worked for, for fear of A) sparking resistance from the 'other side' and B) running afoul of the rules.


----------



## the Jester

nothing to see here said:
			
		

> Tell me about it.  I work in a central political office.  I used to be a professional campaign organizer.  I'm afraid to even breathe a hint of who I've worked for, for fear of A) sparking resistance from the 'other side' and B) running afoul of the rules.




You worked in politics??  

*BAN HIM!!!*

  

(Just kiddin', of course...)


----------



## Piratecat

I'm far more polite online than I am in person, as well. I often visualize EN World as a big dinner party in Morrus's living room. When you're at someone's house for a dinner party, and they disagree with you, you don't get in a screaming match with them. Instead, you politely agree to disagree, and then don't hang out with them in the future.

The other reason we don't allow religion and politics to be discussed is that these arguments inevitable bleed over to elsewhere on the boards. If you know the guy you're discussing attacks of opportunity with hates your religion, you're a lot less likely  to be able to discuss D&D with him rationally.


----------



## elforcelf

Cat,I can not belive you could be rude;your one of the nicest cats online.


----------



## Michael Morris

My personal opinion on this - In my experience the only people who participate in religious or political discussions are those with strong convictions unlikely to change. Add to that the fact that the majority tend to perceive attacks on their viewpoints as personal affronts and you have a recipe for disaster.  In other words, what's the point?


----------



## DaveMage

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> My personal opinion on this - In my experience the only people who participate in religious or political discussions are those with strong convictions unlikely to change. Add to that the fact that the majority tend to perceive attacks on their viewpoints as personal affronts and you have a recipe for disaster.  In other words, what's the point?





One point is that sometimes a political discussion can bring up issues with which I have no knowledge, so for those circumstances, it's nice to hear what different political views think of that particular topic.  Also, as an American, I like to hear viewpoints from citizens from other countries, who many times have insignts about America that I hadn't considered.

However, all of that said, I don't want politics here.


----------



## Morrus

Piratecat said:
			
		

> I often visualize EN World as a big dinner party in Morrus's living room.




Yikes!  32,000 people!  I'd better go shopping or we'll run out of food!


----------



## Michael Morris

Morrus said:
			
		

> Yikes!  32,000 people!  I'd better go shopping or we'll run out of food!




No silly, 30 people and 31,970 alts.


----------



## spatha

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> No silly, 30 people and 31,970 alts.



Is this Nothingland?


----------



## Darkness

spatha said:
			
		

> Is this Nothingland?



 Maybe not, but most of us here are Piratecat.


----------



## diaglo

Morrus said:
			
		

> Yikes!  32,000 people!  I'd better go shopping or we'll run out of food!



i like malt vinegar on my chips.

and newspaper wrapping to hold the fish.


----------



## Jonny Nexus

Morrus said:
			
		

> Yikes!  32,000 people!  I'd better go shopping or we'll run out of food!




I'd make a bread and fishes jokes but that would be religion.


----------



## Jonny Nexus

Piratecat said:
			
		

> The other reason we don't allow religion and politics to be discussed is that these arguments inevitable bleed over to elsewhere on the boards. If you know the guy you're discussing attacks of opportunity with hates your religion, you're a lot less likely  to be able to discuss D&D with him rationally.




Yeah, that was my problem with RPGNet. I found that when people said I should be set on fire or killed* on account of my ethical beliefs (I'm a vegan) it tended to make me not want to talk to them again, ever.  

* And yes, I did try reporting the post via the "Report this post" button, but that just resulted in the moderator coming onto the thread and basically flaming the  out of me. At which point I left and moved to ENWorld, although I'm afraid I do still think of myself as an RPGNet refugee instead of a citizen of ENWorld.


----------



## Barendd Nobeard

Jonny Nexus said:
			
		

> At which point I left and moved to ENWorld, although I'm afraid I do still think of myself as an RPGNet refugee instead of a citizen of ENWorld.




Well, have you applied for citizenship yet?  At least got your green card, right?


----------



## Morrus

diaglo said:
			
		

> and newspaper wrapping to hold the fish.




I haven't seen newspaper used to wrap fish and chips in years.  When I was a kid, it was always wrapped in newspaper.  These days, they just use plain white paper.  It's not the same.


----------



## Buttercup

Morrus said:
			
		

> I haven't seen newspaper used to wrap fish and chips in years.  When I was a kid, it was always wrapped in newspaper.  These days, they just use plain white paper.  It's not the same.




Why, because the ink gave the fish added flavor?


----------



## William Ronald

Buttercup said:
			
		

> Why, because the ink gave the fish added flavor?




Maybe because it gave people a chance to eat and catch up on the news, stock quotes, and sports scores quickly?


----------



## Morrus

It's a whole atmospheric thing!  Can't be explained!


----------



## Ashwyn

Morrus said:
			
		

> Yikes!  32,000 people!  I'd better go shopping or we'll run out of food!



Nah, we can just eat the lurkers.


----------



## Darkness

Ashwyn said:
			
		

> Nah, we can just eat the lurkers.



 Yeah, starting with Crothian, as he's the only lurker I can readily identify from memory.


----------



## STARP_JVP

Mark CMG said:
			
		

> _I think it's a Beatles lyric..._




Crabalocka fishwife, pornographic priestess, boy you've been a naughty girl you let your knickers down...?


----------



## kirinke

Jonny Nexus said:
			
		

> Yeah, that was my problem with RPGNet. I found that when people said I should be set on fire or killed* on account of my ethical beliefs (I'm a vegan) it tended to make me not want to talk to them again, ever.
> 
> * And yes, I did try reporting the post via the "Report this post" button, but that just resulted in the moderator coming onto the thread and basically flaming the  out of me. At which point I left and moved to ENWorld, although I'm afraid I do still think of myself as an RPGNet refugee instead of a citizen of ENWorld.





What's wrong with being a vegan? Means more mahi mahi and roast pig for me at the annual 'Be a Pirate' day festivities. Anywayz, welcome to Enworld, you're probly well shot of those guys anyway. Just bring the fresh lemonade and I'll make some completely meat free spagettie.


----------



## the Jester

Jonny Nexus said:
			
		

> Yeah, that was my problem with RPGNet. I found that when people said I should be set on fire or killed* on account of my ethical beliefs (I'm a vegan) it tended to make me not want to talk to them again, ever.




Nothing wrong with being vegan where I'm from, but I live in Davis.   

We're really quite friendly here, you should change your cultural identity.


----------



## Angel Tarragon

elforcelf said:
			
		

> Cat,I can not belive you could be rude;your one of the nicest cats online.



Hey, what about me?


----------

