# Recruiting for a High Level Planescape Campaign (dead, see the last post, sorry)



## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Cage-Rattler has inspired me to start a Planescape game too. The campaign's plot will change depending on the kinds of PCs I get. Regardless, the campaign will not be warm and fuzzy. No good characters. The focus will be on social interaction first, combat second.

A few notes:
-I'm not a brilliant writer, and I can't spell. Exceptional narratives aren't my strength.
-I will do my best to provide maps for every encounter.
-I expect a post per day from my players (within reason, obviously). I will do the same.
-A strong knowledge of the Planescape setting is required for this game. I may change some aspects of cannon to suit the nature of the setting.
-Unuasual characters are strongly encouraged (see character creation for houserules on this). 
-I'm much more concerned with having fun than following the rules. If you want to do something really crazy just make sure you ask me first.


Character Creation:

-Starting level: 16th, 32 pt. buy, take average rounded up for HP (so 1d6 would be 4 and 1d12 would be 7), max HP at first level

-No Plueless characters. Unless your concept is utterly briliant, you character must be fairly familiar with the planes.

-You may buy down up to 1 point of level adjustment (using a 28 point buy instead of 32)

-Starting gold for a 16th level character

-alignment: any neutral or evil. extremely chaotic or insane characters will not fare very well

-Books alowed: MM, PHB, Planer Handbook, MoTP, PSCS releases (Find them on planewalker.com), Planewalker monster conversions (Also on planewalker.com), Complete arcane, complete warior, complete adventurer, XPH, unearthed arcana.

-Powerful characters: WOTC's level adjustment system is a failure. Period. If you want to play a powerful character check with me first. I'll figure out a way to make it work. A general guideline would be to create a CR 14 character (counting all class levels as asociated). This is subject to my eyeballing. I might require you to reduce your power level further. 

-If you want to play something wierd like a talking hat, check with me.


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

Ah! Ah!

*raises hand wildly*

Can I try that tiefling beguiler concept in YOUR game? 

I'm quite knowledgeable about Planescape canon, having bought the boxed set and a couple of supplements... The character would definitely be neutral in attitude, though her means are devious and underhanded and might qualify for an evil 'tilt.'


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## Scurry (Oct 27, 2007)

Woot. I am interested! More later, when I have elaboration time.


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## WarShrike (Oct 27, 2007)

Thinking of an Elf or Halfling Half-Fiend Warlock. I agree that WOTC's LA system is a failure. How does your system work? Asking because i might make something else, something way out there.

Also, since Unearthed is mentionned, do you allow Traits or Flaws?

WarShrike


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

I don't have the beguiler class, so I really don't know if you can or not.

I've not decided about party size, but I am comfortable with a larger group (which is probably good in this case). 5-6 players + a DMPC to walk into traps and provide more plot hooks.

I would also like a reasonably detailed list of your character's allies and enemies.

Again, really strange characters are encouraged. In annother Planescape campaign I'm running with a similar power level there is an LE kolyarut who wants to rule Baator, a falxugon (with a CHA score in the 30s)+bodyguard, a pschotic aasimar mass-murderer, an elan with multiple personalities, 2 arcanaloth twins who pretend to be LE, and a fiendish adu'jas druid with a genocidal hate on kender+his psychic pixie goon.

WarShrike:

I allow traits and flaws. If you want to make something out-there get whatever monster you want to play up to CR 14 and we'll go from there (either adding or removing levels). If you want to be a talking hat, we'll have to see. Really, I need to see what you want to play before I make any more concrete suggestions.


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## WarShrike (Oct 27, 2007)

Okie Dokie. Was thinking a Mindflayer 

Developpment to follow.

WarShrike


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Yep, I've actually tested that (I use the psionic mind flayer), CR 14 should be your target.


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

No PHB2?

Hmm! Alright then...before I go too much further, do you have any/all of the Races of and Complete series?


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## WarShrike (Oct 27, 2007)

Hmmm. Am i correct in my math? A CR 14 Mindflayer has 7 class levels?

WarShrike

Edit: Oh, and how do you handle the 8d8 Racial HDs, average round up as for class levels?


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## ethandrew (Oct 27, 2007)

Hmmm, I would like to try my hand at a Blue Slaad | Master of the Unseen Hand. They're only a CR 8 with 8 HD, +6 LA, so I'm not sure how many levels you'd allow me to have.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Geez, people keep underposting me. This is scary

WarShrike: 

Oops, forgot about the HD. You have 6 character levels (In adition to the 8 HD) in whatever you want and you are treated as a 16th level character. The d8s are handle just like levels in a PC class (you get max HP for your first abberation HD)


Shayuri:

I have Complete Arcane, Adventurer, and Warrior as well as Races of Stone and Races of the Wild.

ethandrew: 
6 class levels to start (this may change once I see the build). But remember, a slaad is a chaotic exemplar, I may disallow because it is too chaotic to function in a party.


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## ethandrew (Oct 27, 2007)

It would just most likely be Blue Slaad + 5 Levels of Master of Unseen Hand + 1 level of Fighter.

That would put him at 14 HD, which leads me to a question: as per a blue slaad's advancement on page 229 in the MM, this would make him Huge instead of Large. Which would you like him at?


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

Arr, not bad...okay let's see...

I'm thinking a Pixie or Nymph warlock...or possibly sorceror...

Nymph would be cool, but the druid levels are kind of superfluous.

Hmm! Do you have or allow Eberron? A warforged artificer could be a lot of fun. Perhaps as a creature from Mechanus...

Or if you have Book of 9 Swords, a swordsage...


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

ethandrew:
There would be no size advancement. The main problem is the extremely chaotic nature (he won't work with a party for long and won't handle social situations very well.

Shayuri:

Pixie and nymph both work (Nymph would probably work better though. We need a party healer and people person. I also find constant greater invisibility to be a real nuisance, but if you want to play a pixie, you can). 

I don't have any Ebberon books, but I'd allow a warforged character if you posted what abilities you'd have. I don't have book of 9 swords either. (I'm just a poor high school student. I can't afford very much in the way of gaming books)


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

Arr, no worries. Just brainstorming.

How many class levels would a pixie or Nymph have, by the way?

Pixies have 1 racial hit dice, which basically means they take on the HD of their class, just like PC races, and are CR 4 (5 if they have the Irresistible Dance power). They're listed as ECL +4. By the book they'd get 12 class levels for ECL 16.

Nymphs have 6 racial hit dice, are CR 7, and ECL +7. By the book they'd get 9 class levels for ECL 16.

The basic idea I'm toying with is a 'corrupted' fey...a fey from a place tainted with fiendish influence. Thus, kind of pale and gothy looking, gloomy and depressed with flashes of meanness... Perhaps it's a goal of the character to clean the 'taint,' or to embrace it fully, becoming a fiend... I'll have to toy with that idea...


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## ethandrew (Oct 27, 2007)

Which is why I'll have him based out of Sigil for quite some time, tempering his chaotic nature. I'm leaning toward making him TN with latent chaotic tendencies, since any overt chaos would alert him to the lady, which is not what anyone wants when they're in Sigil.

I would imagine the more he's around other blue slaads, the more chaotic he becomes. But when around adventuring, adventurers, and in sigil, he's smart enough to know what's right and wrong.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

ethaqndrew:
OK

Shayuri:
Pixies just use a +4 LA. Nymphs would have 7 class levels (in adition to thier racial HD) to bump them up to CR 14 and effective character level 16. That said, the nymph is a bit weaker than a 7th level druid (the basis of my estimate) especialy when her blinding beuty ability won't affect as many people, so it is possible that I may allow annother class level


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

Oh!

lol...don't hate me. I know I'm pestering you. I can't help it.

I just had an idea for a renegade familiar...a pseudodragon that was a familiar to a powerful mage, and either broke free or was released when the mage died. The ex-familiar has some of the master's power, and goes on to learn more magic on its own, thus becoming a powerful mage in its own right.

If it's actually a 'rogue' familiar, its goal might be to liberate itself from a cruel master! If the master is dead, then it could be after revenge!

Edit - response to your post above - Hmm...so I could have 14 druid caster levels...and the class features of a 7th level druid, plus the racial spiffs of a Nymph... I could do some healing with that, yes... Druids and Charisma don't synergize much, but I could spare it some points and some Diplomacy skill. Or maybe go Scout levels or something, and just stick with the natural druid levels...


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Shayuri:

I was thinking of playing a rouge familiar once. Go ahead. You can have a pseudodragon (W/O any possible granted abilities) at 15th level. If you want stuff like SR then you can reduce the number of class levels. (Does the familiar have a familiar?   )


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

You know what would be hilarious? For the pdragon to have a human familiar.

What are your feelings about the Leadership feat? 

Here's a link to the online SRD's statblock for a psuedodragon too. You can decide how many class levels they'd get.

http://dndsrd.net/monstersOtoR.html#pseudodragon


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## WarShrike (Oct 27, 2007)

I'm tossing around a couple concepts. The Mindflayer would probably be a Monk 6, and it's looking pretty good. Also looking into a Githzerai Warlock 11, Hellfire Warlock 3, which also looks good. This campaign idea rocks, but what to choose as a character is hell.   

WarShrike


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## kinem (Oct 27, 2007)

Oo! I'm interested.  I'd like to play perhaps an imp (sorcerer 12? perhaps wiz or psi) or an ice devil (wiz or psi 1).


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Everyone: Remember, I need pretty detailed backgrounds for this game (where you live, allies, enemies, history, potential blackmail information, etc.) And again just to make absolutely sure, it is absolutely essential that everyone is reasonably familiar with the setting. I really don't want to explain Sigil or it's major NPCs. If I say Shemeska, Zadra, or Jeremo the Natterer (etc.), I expect you to know who they are and a reasonable amount of information about them.


Shayuri:
Leadership is cool. I don't think a human familiar works well without a few feats. (unless you wanted a small child. Heh.)

WarShrike: 
Mind flayers tend to look down on physical combat. That would be something to remember (I also despise the monk class, but if you really want to...) I don't know the hellfire warlock it's not in my books. 

kinem:
Imp sorc 12 is straight out. Any Baatezu with that much power would have been promoted. Ice devil is tentatively okay, but with no class levels for the moment. It's a pretty nasty cr 13. Also remember that gelugons primarily serve Mephistophles or fight in the Blood War. They don't do anything that would be likely to bring them into Sigil and Baatezu really don't like exceptions to the rule.


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## ethandrew (Oct 27, 2007)

So my slaad should get two more feats, if I'm assuming correctly:

8HD:
1st-Feat (Dodge, as per MM)
3rd-Feat (Mobility)
6th-Feat (Multiattack)

6 Class Levels:
9th-Feat
12th-Feat

Which leaves me at 14HD right now. What would you think about my Slaad having an exotic mount?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

ethandrew:

Your feats are correct. A Huge mount isn't really feasable in Sigil, I don't think, and you probably won't have any oportunity to use it even if you had one.


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

Okay...I'm zeroing in on a final concept now. Just a couple more questions.

First, verifying that ex-familiar Pseudodragon has 15 class levels? Bearing in mind the base stats of the creature are 2 HD, blindsense, SR, flight, telepathy, etc...that's all with no familiar qualities (which I wouldn't be taking anyway...needlessly overcomplicates the concept).

Second, have you decided if nymph gets 7 or 8 class levels? It makes a big difference, because if it's 8, a nymph druid could start the game with access to 8th level spells...thus making it a lot more attractive as a concept.

Clarification on ex-familiar's "familiar," I'd probably take a human cohort and make him seem like "my mage." Perhaps using Limited Wish to revive him if he dies in the line of duty.  I don't think ex-familiar would actually have a familiar of his own. There is a variant class ability for sorcerors in PHB2 called "Metamagic Specialist." They don't increase casting time for metamagic enhanced spells, but also don't gain familiars. If you allow that, I'd probably take it...since the pdragon would need to cast a lot of silenced, stilled spells to make it look like the human was casting them.


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## ethandrew (Oct 27, 2007)

That's perfectly fine. I just thought the idea of a large blue slaad riding a gaspar would be unique. I also forgot that at 14th the slaad would get a fighter feat. I've pretty much got everything fleshed out, it's just a matter of creating a perfect background.

What I'm thinking for now, very briefly, is that he has created some rift with the slaadi community back in limbo, and so he spends most of his time in Sigil, avoiding them and living his life as a mercenary.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Shayuri: 
The psudodragon would have 14 class levels (I forgot about the HD). Metamagic specialist sounds okay. The nymph could have 8 class levels.

ethandrew:
Slaadi comunity is an oxymoron. They are far too chaotic (and often too stupid as well) to stick together for extended periods of time. I would also suggest reading the PSCS, especialy the skils and feats section.


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

*nods*

And finally, what sources do you allow spells to be chosen from? Oh, and magic items. Specifically, whether or not you allow Spell Compendium and Magic Item Compendium.


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## WarShrike (Oct 27, 2007)

Ok, scratch the monk.   

Hellfire Warlock is a Prestige Class found in the Fiendish Codex II. It has a maximum of 3 levels. Listing for your approval.

Hellfire Warlock -- Hit Die D6
1st  BAB +0,  F+0,  R+0,  W+2, Hellfire Blast +2d6, +1 Lvl of existing Invoking Class.

2nd BAB +1,  F+0, R+0, W+3, Hellfire Blast +4d6, Hellfire Infusion, Resist Fire 10, +1 Lvl of existing Invoking Class.

3rd BAB+2, F+1, R+1, W+3, Hellfire Blast +6d6, Hellfire Shield, +1 Lvl of existing Invoking Class.

Same skills and skill points as Warlock.
Requirements: Skills -- Intimidate 6 ranks, Knowledge the planes 12 ranks, spellcraft 6 ranks. Language -- Infernal. Warlock Invocations -- Must know Brimstone Blast or Hellrime Blast.

*Hellfire Blast (Sp):*
Whenever you use your Eldritch Blast, you can change your Eldritch Blast into a Hellfire Blast. Hellfire Blast deals your normal Eldritch Blast damage plus an extra 2d6 points of damage per class level.If your blast hits multiple targets (ex: Eldritch Chain or Eldritch Cone Blast Shapes), each target takes the extra damage. This damage is not fire damage. Hellfire burns hotter than normal fire.

[SBLOCK=Hellfire Rules]
Hellfire is the creation of Mephistopheles, archduke of Cania. Hotter than the hottest flames of any world, hellfire burns with a white-hot glow and is capable of burning through even the hardest of substances. Hellfire does not deal fire damage despite its flames. Even creatures with immunity or resistance to fire take full damage from these hellish flames. Hellfire also deals full damage to objects, unlike normal fire damage. [/SBLOCK]

Each time you use this ability you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand part of your essence in exchange for this granted power, if you do not have a Constitution score or are somehow immune to Constitution damage, you cannot use this ability.

*Invoking:*
At each level, you gain new invocations known, increased damage with Eldritch Blast, and an increase in invoker level as if you had gained a level in the Warlock class. You do not, however, gain any other benefit a character of that class would have gained.

*Resistance to fire 10 (Ex):* 
At 2nd level, you gain resistance to fire 10. This resistance stacks with any resistance to fire you have gained from Warlock class levels.

*Hellfire Infusion (Su):*
Starting at 2nd level, you can infuse magic items that you wield with the power of hellfire. Whenever you use a charged magic item (such as a Wand or a Staff), you can apply one of the following meta magic effects to your next use of the item: empower, enlarge, widen, or energy substitution. These effects work just as the meta magic feats of the same name. Using Hellfire Infusion is a swift action. You can use this ability a number of times per day equal to your Charisma modifier (minimum one). When you infuse an item with hellfire, it glows briefly with fiery symbols that are disturbing to look upon.

*Hellfire Shield:*
Starting at 3rd level, you can call up hellfire to surround yourself with a protective barrier. Whenever someone directs a melee attack against you, you can, as an immediate action, aim a blast of hellfire at that creature. The blast deals damage equal to your Eldritch Blast (including bonus damage from the Hellfire Blast ability). This blast automatically strikes the target, which can attempt a Reflex saving throw for half damage (DC 10 +1/2 your character level + your Cha modifier). Each time you use this ability, you take 1 point of Constitution damage. Because the diabolical forces behind the power of hellfire demand..... See Hellfire above. This took a long time to type 

WarShrike


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## kinem (Oct 27, 2007)

A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> kinem:
> Imp sorc 12 is straight out. Any Baatezu with that much power would have been promoted. Ice devil is tentatively okay, but with no class levels for the moment. It's a pretty nasty cr 13. Also remember that gelugons primarily serve Mephistophles or fight in the Blood War. They don't do anything that would be likely to bring them into Sigil and Baatezu really don't like exceptions to the rule.




If I go with a quasit instead of an imp, would that be OK?

With a gelugon, he'd be an exception.  Perhaps he gained credit (as last one standing among his troupe) for defeating a powerful human adventuring party, and was granted a favor as a result.  He chose to take a vacation in Sigil so he could learn more about these mortals and other races.  At the same time, he is looking for more options in life, and there he would be in a good position to be approached by agents of other archdevils or others.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Shayuri:
Complete arcane, warrior, adventurer, races of stone, races of the wild, PSCS (this is probably the best list of spells for a planar druid), MotP, planar handbook

WarShrike:
That works mechanicaly, though just annother point: Githzerai highly value freedom. It is very, very, very, unlikely that one would sign away thier freedom and soul after thier experiences with the ilthilids.

Kinem:
Again, a quasit with 12 class levels would have consumed enough greater Tanar'ri to be promoted as well. 

You can play a greater fiend, but when you do so, you invite me to push you around a bit more. You are extremely old and have and have more enemies than a mortal could make in a lifetime if they tried. You are also acountable to your direct superiors in Sigil and indirect superiors in Cania. 

Annother note: non-unique devils (except those that are authorized to travel to the Prime more freely like erinyes and falxugons) get more options through promotion, not through other sources (Devils aren't the most creative bunch). A trip to Sigil does not advance that goal; in fact it hurts it, because while you are away, your peers will prepare to move against you. Ditching Mephistophles will get you killed since other archdevils don't like to enlist gelugons because they are loyal to Mephistophles. You are more trouble than it's worth to protect. Same deal with the aminzu. Your options lie with either the Dark Eight (fighting in the Blood War) or with Mephistophles (pushing others around and serving as an oficer in his personal army).

Baisically, I'm not saying no outright, but given the niche that Gelugons fill, you'll need a far more compelling motivation to move to Sigil. He would already know a great deal about mortals (being tens of thousands of years old and dealing with them in past forms).

The most likely reason a gelugon would be in Sigil is because they screwed up big time and got asigned to command to command a smallish security detail in Hell's Gate, but this would leave little time for other things. If you want to play a devil, it is best to play one that deals with mortals (erinyes, falxugon, etc.) because these devils are suppoused to be in places like Sigil.


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## Dire Lemming (Oct 27, 2007)

Glad to see another planescape game for people who didn't get into the other one.  have fun guys!  I think I will!


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## Shayuri (Oct 27, 2007)

Awesome. Thankee!

One other thing occurred to me. Magical items for a pseudodragon are a little...unusual. Will you allow some "customized" items? By customized, I mean primarily just combining items functions...like a Ring of Protection and Freedom of Movement...that sort of thing. With the 50% surcharge as listed in the SRD/DMG of course.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 27, 2007)

Shayuri:
Yes. If anyone else wants to customize stuff, they can, just be sure to tell me


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## WarShrike (Oct 27, 2007)

Lol, keep shooting me down. hehe.

Ok, how about a Zenythri? I took a 28 point build to remove the +1 LA.

WarShrike


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## kinem (Oct 28, 2007)

ACF, it seems like playing a devil other than an erinyes won't be allowed, and demons like the quasit have much the same problems.

What about the arcanaloth?  I don't have MM2 or MM3, so it'd be based on the conversion on planewalker, which isn't that great.  BTW, I have always felt that they should cast like wizards, rather than sorcerers, given their scholarly image.  What modifications would you want and how many class levels would be allowed?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

WarShrike: 
It works


Kinem:
The big problem is with devils, not demons. There isn't any logical problem with any kind of demon being in Sigil since demons aren't tied to any formal power structure. Since demons advance in caste by consuming other demons, though, a quaist or dretch shouldn't have a lot of class levels or else they'd be something that wasn't a quaist or a dretch. Baisically, a demon or devil makes a poor primary caster, since that's what it seems you're going for. If you still want to be a more powerful devil, the Lokogron (you are finding other people's truenames, and have freedom to move about) (WOTC has a free preview of it up on thier website), Osyluth (as long as you report on other devils' loyalty, you can do whatever), or Paeralyon (you are a spymaster, you are stationed somewhere else and can scheme as you please) (I don't have the stats for it though) are all good choices since they all serve a more general role and are not as connected to only one lord and layer. 

Arcanaloth works too (I agree about casting as a wizard, that's how I handle it as well) with the caveat that Shemeska will hate you and make your life miserable (unless you want to work with or for her--I would love that by the way, it would make things very interesting), especialy if you chose to exist in the public eye. If you want to use the PW conversion, you should use the CR 12 version (You have 1 class level if you want to play an arcanaloth, the spell-like abilities and high stats make it very powerful as a PC, I'm quite confident about this guess--I've playtested it for annother campaign)


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## Nephtys (Oct 28, 2007)

What would you say about a Glabrezu (CR 13), or a Succubus (CR 7)? They are chaotic, yes but socially apt, both of them dealing in temptations... How many class levels would they get?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

One thing to note, we absolutely *cannot* have Tanar'ri and Baatezu in the same party. Kinem seems to be leaning towards playing an arcanaloth (you want to be a primary arcane caster, right?), so it should hopefully work. 

Nephtys:

Glabrezu would get 1 class level (maybe none, I'll see), a succubus would get 8 (again, it is a fairly weak monster as a PC)


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 28, 2007)

This sounds interesting, I'm going to go scheme up some strange concepts.  When do you think you will be recruiting until, I don't want to miss the deadline.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

I'll leave you as the last person for now. 7 PCs is my maximum


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## Nephtys (Oct 28, 2007)

How about a Dragon? A Gold Dragon corrupted by greed and pride seeking to aggrandize itself by any means, at any price...  
The metallic dragons have always struck me as borderline evil in all their arrogance, but more manipulative and insidious than the chromatic variants, setting themselves up as little gods over the lesser races.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

you could be a young adult gold dragon (maybe) but I've not playtested any dragons to compare them to PCs, so if you went this way, it may be nescesary to make changes based on how it works in game (my estimate of level=CR+1 to 4 only works on creatures with CR and HD that are pretty close together (giants, constructs, and dragons pose some major problems). I think I'd treat you as a 16 HD creature even though you aren't one. Both the demons and the dragon work conceptually, there are plenty of hooks and ways to tie either into an adventure, but again, I'm worried about how the dragon will work.


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## ethandrew (Oct 28, 2007)

So what's the breakdown of the characters so far? Do we have the basic fields covered? I know there's a pseudodragon (or maybe even a Nymph), we've got my Slaad, a warlock, but what more?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

ethandrew: You may consider making your slaad chaotic neutral but saner (as in not scramblespeakin' people paintin' barmy to the max). The party seems to be leaning a bit the chaotic side as it is. 


kinem, I think wants primary arcane caster
Shayuri seems to be leaning towards playing the nymph (that covers our divine caster)
WarShrike has ranged combat and generaly creepy character
ethandrew, you have the melee character covered
Nephtys will probably be covering the party's face-person, and some other role

Nac Mac Feegle and Scurry haven't put up any ideas. We seem to have the bases covered. A sneak, skill monkey and suppourt caster would be nice, but they aren't nescesary. If I can find a way to make the dragon work then Nephtys has backup caster covered too.


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## ethandrew (Oct 28, 2007)

Whether I make him TN or CN, I want his chaotic nature not as in-your-face as Limbo is. He's got an intelligence of 10, which is average human, so he won't be a blabbering fight-picker. He'll be rough and tumble when it comes down to it, but he'd much rather fling ya way up in the sky than gore you with his knuckle spikes.


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

I'm writing up three variants for me to choose between...the pdragon sorceror, and two versions of the nymph...a druid and a scout archer.

However, if the group has a primary arcanist already, and needs a divine caster, I can focus on developing that one. I like them all!


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## Nephtys (Oct 28, 2007)

Dragons are pretty tough for their CR, so I can handle some modifications. When you say you'd treat him as a 16 HD creature that would only change bab, saves, feats and skills, right (and HDs obviously)? Not the rest that comes with young adult Gold dragon, like breathweapon, spellcasting, abilityscores, SR and so on, right? That's fine by me. If he turns out to be severely underpowered as a result we could perhaps do some more tinkering .
--
Heh, Shayuri, a Pseudodragon seems like a great idea. Let's overthrow the humanoid scum together   .


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

Heeeee

My concept for the pdragon is so crazed and funny. He's got a human cohort who basically serves as "target," by pretending to be the mage. The pdragon's real master was killed, so he's a bit paranoid now. 

But the nymph is cool too. Not as weirdly amusing, but much easier on the eyes.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Nephtys:
He'd just lose the 4 HD (probably more), affecting BAB, saves, feats, skills etc, but not spells, SR, frightful prescence, etc. 


Shayuri:
the druid looks good at the moment. Scout is okay too if somone else want to play a druid--a cleric would probably step on too many toes in a party like this.  kinem has also expressed intrest in being the primary caster (and I genarally prefer wizards to sorcs as primary casters).


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## Scurry (Oct 28, 2007)

Whoop! Sorry, I got slightly overwhelmed by the enormity of choices before us. I'm currently trying to poke together some kind of undead. I may change my mind, because zomg choices. Divine casting capability is not out of the question, so if Shay wants to run with the pseudodragon, I'll happily step up and see what I can put together.


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

Well, even the scout has 7 druid caster levels. 

But yes. The full caster druid is looking pretty good, and is the first version I statted.

She has good Diplo and huge Charisma, but isn't a terribly good "face" due to lack of Bluff, Intimidate, etc etc... She would do in a pinch though. Plus, in Sigil, she's kind of an odd duck, what with her tendency to ride around on a dire wolf. 

But I took the Spontaneous Healing feat from Complete Divine (if that's okay) so she can easily swap out prepped spells for Cures.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 28, 2007)

If you'll allow some stuff from the Draconomicon, I think I'll use a Shadow Dragon.  I figure I have two options, either go for a low-level one with class levels - I'd probably take sorcerer and back up the caster slot - or take an Adult one (CR 13), slap a class level of choice on, and make him primarily a combat sort.  I'd lean towards the second, because playing an old-ish dragon would be rather fun.  I could also use the high HD to have pretty good skills when it came to social stuff.

If I did the adult version, I'd probably want to use combat feats out of the Draconomicon to make full use of dragon-specific stuff.

EDIT: Realizing that we might already have a similarly-built dragon, I'm going to keep thinking of alternate ideas, in case.


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## Scurry (Oct 28, 2007)

Throwing out a few ideas for feedback:

1. Doppleganger, either Chameleon or Warshaper, possibly both? Since we have all the mechanical bases more or less covered, this strikes me as a kinda ideal support character, and playing the Best Inflitrator Ever would make politics interesting.

EDIT: 1.5. Phasm Warshaper/Master Transmogrifist. A phasm sensate would be excellent. Polymorph at will would keep the character's abilities pretty flexible, but they would be a little less good at totally assuming someone's identity than the Doppleganger.

2. Something with the Pseudonatural template (the Complete Arcane one) because Pseudonatural things make me giggle.

3. Just out of curiosity, if I wanted to play an intelligent magical item, what guidelines would you lay down?


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

Argh! Crystalkeep has the Beguiler!

...

Ah well. The nymph druid is already almost done. Darnit though. Hee hee.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 28, 2007)

Looking at dragons from a new angle, actually I think I might try being a Githyanki Dragonrider (PrC from Draconomicon), feels very planescapey to me.  Probably go Psion or Psychic Warrior.

EDIT: So would I use the same CR rules for a cohort?  If I'm going to be a dragon-rider, I can take the Dragon Cohort feat with (if we use ECL) would juuuust let me get a Very Young red dragon (smallest I could ride).  With CR, I'd probably be flying a Juvenile (CR 10) or a Young Adult (CR 13) depending on how you ruled Dragon Cohort works (normally it lets you just get a cohort which has to be a dragon and lets you subtract 3 from its ECL for the purposes of what you can get).

EDIT EDIT: If I just go with CR and -3 levels and assume I just want a large mount (huge in a city seems bad) then I could get a Juvie red dragon with 5 class levels on him.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle:

Because I need to make tweaks, and see the full dragon statblock to do that, playing a shadow dragon is out. Also, the red dragon pact is called off because Valkith is dead and Tur'nath is blown into to very small peices according to PW Planescape cannon (which is what I use unless I say otherwise). We also have one dragon in the party. I don't want two. Githyanki isn't out though.

there are few things that make playing (essentialy) a githyanki knight a problem:
1. Githyanki knights (a dragon rider would qualify as a knight) are fanatical and would have huge problems working with non-gythyanki.
2. Valkith is only very recently dead, so it would be very dificult to justify how someone who is loyal to Valkith and such a high level has not been consumed by her.
3. The Red dragon Pact was voided on Valkith's death 


Scurry:
Phasam won't work. It has CR 7, 15 HD and no good way to scale it down. The dopelganger is much more manageable as a PC, I think, but remember, an arcanaloth can shapechange into any humanoid form at will, so there will be some redundancy there.

Psudonatural template won't fly. Far realm creatures are not PCs. Period. They are far too alien to function in a normal way.

I've never actually used an inteligent item as a PC. You'll have to come up with a more detailed idea, then I'll se what I can do.


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

Crazy, in Unearthed Arcana there's a variant druid I'd like to ask if you'd allow. It's in the online SRD too. The link: http://dndsrd.net/unearthedCoreClass.html#druid

The "simple variant" is the one I'm interested in. Basically it trades wildshape for a few class features from monk and ranger. Wild shape just doesn't fit my mental picture for this character, and it's a pain keeping track of form data...and mechanically it bites for her anyway, because she has 15 druid caster levels, but only 8 actual druid -levels-.

I'd much rather her be able to fight tooth and nail alongside her companion, which the Simple Variant would allow.

Thoughts?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Shayuri:
Go ahead. Anything that gets rid of wild shape makes me happy.


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## kinem (Oct 28, 2007)

I am indeed writing up an arcanaloth.

ACF, I patched up a few gaps in the planewalker entry from other sources: claw/bite base damage will be 1d4/2d6 (from creature catalog), and DR will be 15/good (from the MM2 3.5 update guide).  OK?

I assume I have to charge the price of a scroll for each spell known, except for the two he gets from taking the one actual wizard level.

The planewalker entry lists the "teleport without error" spell-like ability as "optional".  Should I assume he does get greater teleport?

When a creature with SR gains a class level in your campaign, does its spell resistance increase?  What about the caster level of its spell-like abilities?

So far the character is looking very powerful.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

kinem: 
several things:

First I need to know who you work for. 

General power level: Yeah. Oops. I forgot I tested the arcanaloth using a 28 pt. buy with natural arnor reduced by 4. I'll dig up the ability score adjustments I used and put them up here. They're a bit more reasonable. This should help keep the character sane. I'd like to see the stats and see. Remember Cha still affects your spell-like abilities.

Bite should still be 1d6 damage. (I dunno what WOTC says, but arcanaloth's bite does not = greatsword.

Scrolls: these don't come with the character. Any scrolls you want come out of your starting gold.

Teleport W/O error: by default I'd say yes. All fiends get thier ability to teleport by giving thier truenames to the Maeldur et Kervik (if I spelled that right without looking, I'm a greater diety). I would say yes you would have the ability.

SR: yes, it increases with level

Ability caster level: does not increase with advances in level 

DR: I like 3e DR/magic. Your DR is 30/+3 (I count efective +1s as +.5s so a +2 keen, flaming longsword is a +3 weapon for the purposes of overcoming DR)


*edit:*

Ability adjustments for the arcanaloth:
+0, +4, +2, +8 +8 +8


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## Scurry (Oct 28, 2007)

Shapechange at will you say? Jeebus, that is a tough act to follow. >.< 

I don't suppose you have any suggestions acquiring ridiculous metamorphic power?

I'll see what other chars I can think up, and come up with a real idea for an intelligent item.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Shapechange at will, but only into other humanoids.

kinem:

you used the CR 12 version, right? that might be the problem.


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## kinem (Oct 28, 2007)

ACF, thanks.  The version I used says CR 12.

Just to clarify, I'm not talking about scrolls I would have, but about obtaining known spells.  A wizard normally gets two free spells known at every wizard level.  I'm assuming that I would not get these spells (except at the one actual wizard level) and would have to spend the equivalent gp of buying scrolls in order to have spells known.

By 'shapechange into other humanoids' do you mean actual humanoids, or are human-like-shaped outsiders OK?  What about other types?  What about shapechanging into a bodak?  Are there creatures with fast healing among the ones you allow?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Kinem:
You are really, really old. Your spellbook can have every spell in all the books I've listed as sources for spells and then some. You don't need to pay for that. 

I would say you can shapechange into any humanoid creatures, but they aren't truly those creatures (and will therefore detect as humanoids and be affected by all spells and abilities that only affect humanoids) they just look like it. You wouldn't gain extraordinary abilities like true seeing, fast healing, etc. from your shapechange, though you would gain all physical abilities and attacks. The only time you would gain extraordinary abilities and the like would be if you shapechanged into a Humanoid (the type).


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

Work in progress sheet for Talshia the nymphy druid. Mostly so you can see where the mechanics are going. Currently finalizing inventory and adding background/description.

Let me know if there's problems or if you have any questions.

[sblock]Name: Talshia
Race: Nymph
Class/Level: 6 fey + 8 druid
Gender: Female
Exp:

Desc

Strength (STR) 18 (4)
Dexterity (DEX) 22 (4)
Constitution (CON) 16 (6)
Intelligence (INT) 16 (2) 
Wisdom (WIS) 30 (10)
Charisma (CHA) 26 (6) 

Alignment: Neutral
AC: 35 (10 +6 Dex +8 deflection +10 wisdom +1 "monk")
Hit Points: 108/108
Movement: 50' ground, 20' swim

Init: +6
Base Attack Bonus: +9
Melee Attack: +13
Ranged Attack: +15
Fort: +24
Reflex: +26
Will: +34

Race Abilities
+6 Dex, +2 Con, +6 Int, +6 Wis, +8 Cha
DR 10/cold iron
Low Light Vision
Blinding Beauty DC 25
Dimension Door 1/day SLA
Spellcasting (as 7th level druid)
Stunning Glance DC 25
Unearthly Grace +8
Wild Empathy 

Class Abilities:
Animal Companion (8HD dire wolf)
AC Bonus (+1/5 lvls, wis bonus to AC)
Fast Movement 20'
Favored Enemy
- Undead +4
- Evil Outsiders +2
Bonus Feat: Track
Swift Tracker
Nature Sense
Wild Empathy
Woodland Stride
Trackless Step
Resist Nature's Lure

Skills: 
Concentration +18 (15 ranks +3 Con)
Diplomacy +20 (10 ranks +8 Cha +2 synergy)
Handle Animal +13 (5 ranks +8 Cha)
Heal +15 (5 ranks +10 Wis)
Hide +20 (9 ranks +6 Dex +5 competence)
Knowledge: Nature +8 (5 ranks +3 Int)
Knowledge: Religion +7 (4cc ranks +3 Int)
Listen +25 (15 ranks +10 Wis)
Move Silently +20 (9 ranks +6 Dex +5 competence)
Ride +13 (5 ranks +6 dex +2 synergy)
Sense Motive +20 (10 ranks +10 Wis)
Spot +25 (15 ranks +10 Wis)
Survival +20 (10 ranks +10 Wis)
Control +20 (10 ranks +10 Wis)
Planar Expertise +16 (6 ranks +10 Wis)

Feats
1 Eschew Materials
3 Spell Penetration
6 Greater Spell Penetration
9 Natural Bond
12 Spontaneous Healing

Languages - Common, Sylvan, Druidic, Terran, Auran, Ignan

Spellcasting (Druid CL 15, DC 20+lvl)
Prepared:
0 - Cure Minor Wounds x2, Detect Magic x2, Guidence x2
1 - Endure Elements, Entangle, Faerie Fire, Goodberry, Longstrider, Produce Flame x2, Speak with Animal
2 - Barkskin x2, Nature's Favor, Embrace the Wild, Bear Endurance x2, Cat's Grace, Avoid Planar Effect
3 - Mass Rst Energy, Daylight, Gtr Mgc Fang, Remove Disease, Neutralize Poison, Wind Wall, Attune Form
4 - Air walk, Flame Strike x2, Freedom of Movement, Arc of Lightning x2
5 - Animal Growth, Wall of Thorns, Death Ward, Call Lightning Storm, Baleful Polymorph, Control Wind
6 - Antilife Shell, Greater Dispel, Fire Seeds, Transmute Element to Paraelement, Wall of Stone
7 - Fire Storm, Heal, Wind Walk
8 - Finger of Death, Whirlwind

Money - 338

Weapons - 
Stormspike +2, +15 melee/+17 thrown, 1d6+6 dmg, 20', Shock, Returns, 32,302

Armour -
	None

Gear -
Everburning Torch, 110gp


Magic -
Ring of Evasion, 25k
Survival Pouch, 5k
Wristlet of Pearl, 44k
- 2 Pearl of Power 1st, 2k
- 2 Pearl of Power 2nd, 8k
- 2 Pearl of Power 3rd, 18k
- 1 Pearl of Power 4rth, 16k

Vest of Resistance +5, 25k
Belt of Giant Strength +6, 36k
Gloves of Dexterity +4, 16k
Periapt of Wisdom +6, 36k
Elven Cloak of Charisma +4, 19.75k
Elven Slippers of Spider Climbing, 8.5k
Handy Haversack, 2k
Collar of Resistance (for companion) +2, 4k

Wand of Cure Moderate Wounds 50/50, 4.5k
2 bless weapon oils, 200
2 silversheen, 500
2 feather token: tree, 800

Background: 
	None


DIRE WOLF
Large Animal
Hit Dice: 8d8+32 (68 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50 ft. (10 squares)
Armor Class: 17 (–1 size, +3 Dex, +5 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 14
Base Attack/Grapple: +6/+17 
Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+12) 
Full Attack: Bite +13 melee (1d8+12) 
Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft. 
Special Attacks: Trip (+12)
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, evasion
Saves: Fort +12, Ref +11, Will +9
Abilities: Str 26, Dex 16, Con 18, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 10 
Skills: Hide +1, Listen +8, Move Silently +5, Spot +8, Survival +2* 
Feats: Alertness, Run, TrackB, Weapon Focus (bite)

Buffs:
- Greater Magic Fang +3 attack/damage
- Barkskin +5 AC
- Bear's Endurance +16 HP, +2 Fort
- Cat's Grace +2 AC
- Nature's Favor +3 attack/damage
- Animal Growth +3 attack/damage, +8 grapple/trip, +16 HP, +1 AC, +2 Will, +4 fort, +1 reflex, 10/magic[/sblock]


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Everyone:

Since it's come up, I would like your ability scores without racial modifiers noted. I would also like your item-modified ability scores noted seperately.

Shayuri:

You may fit in the party a bit better by being evil. Not crazy evil, but still evil.

The bonus spells for each level of pearl of power shouldn't stack, so Wristlet of Pearl, should look like this:
- 1 Pearl of Power 1st, 
- 1 Pearl of Power 2nd, 
- 1 Pearl of Power 3rd, 
- 1 Pearl of Power 4rth, 

I don't know what these are:
Elven Cloak of Charisma +4, 19.75k
Elven Slippers of Spider Climbing, 8.5k


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

You may fit in the party a bit better by being evil. Not crazy evil, but still evil.

-- I don't tend to RP actual evil very well. But I can do apathetic neutral acceptance of evil. 

The bonus spells for each level of pearl of power shouldn't stack, so Wristlet of Pearl, should look like this:
- 1 Pearl of Power 1st,
- 1 Pearl of Power 2nd,
- 1 Pearl of Power 3rd,
- 1 Pearl of Power 4rth,

-- Not sure what you mean here. I bought multiple pearls of power. Two each of levels 1, 2, and 3. Then 1 pearl for level 4. Nothing's stacking. There's just more than one item all strung on a single strand. 

I don't know what these are:
Elven Cloak of Charisma +4, 19.75k
Elven Slippers of Spider Climbing, 8.5k

-- Arr, I should have broken them down better. My apologies. Doing high level inventories involves juggling a lot of stuff.  Basically they're just a normal Cloak of Charisma and Slippers of Spider Climbing...combined with the Hide and Move Silent bonuses from Elven Cloak and Elven Boots, respectively. I paid 50% extra on the 2500 each of those items would cost, and tacked it onto the existing artifacts.

I'll edit the sheet soon to show derivation of stats, saves, etc...


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Shayuri:

Apathetic neutral works, though it's arguably evil. 

What I mean about the pearls of power is that if you wore (for example) 2 pearl of power Is combined, you would still only get one 1st level spell out of it. The bonus spells for each level don't stack. If they did pearl of power would be one of the most broken magic items since ever. This means you only need 1 of each kind of pearl to get 1 bonus ist, 1 bonus 2nd, 1 bonus 3rd, and 1 bonus 4th level spell. The duplicates for I and II are redundant.


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## Shayuri (Oct 28, 2007)

I shall leave the finer points of alignment up to the philosophers. 

I still am not following you on the pearls.

Each pearl, when activated (as a standard action), recovers a spell slot that had previously been expended. They don't provide bonus spell slots. Having 2 1st level pearls of power just means you can recover 2 1st level slots, after you use them. So, for example, if I cast Faerie Fire, then need it, I can use a Pearl and recover it. Then I need a Produce Flame, but I cast them already...I can recover one of those.

Useful for repeat-casting lower level heals and spells like remove disease and so on.


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## Zurai (Oct 28, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Each pearl, when activated (as a standard action), recovers a spell slot that had previously been expended. They don't provide bonus spell slots. Having 2 1st level pearls of power just means you can recover 2 1st level slots, after you use them. So, for example, if I cast Faerie Fire, then need it, I can use a Pearl and recover it. Then I need a Produce Flame, but I cast them already...I can recover one of those.




More specifically (adding to what you've said, not contrasting), it recovers the _specific spell_ used in that slot. You don't get to change the spell alotted. Pearls of Power aren't _nearly_ as good as extra spell slots.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

Ah. Never mind. I'm mixing up items then. I suppouse I should post stuff like that when I have the DMG with me.


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## WarShrike (Oct 28, 2007)

Going back to what Shayuri said earlier, are we allowed items from the Magic Item Compendium?

WarShrike

Edit: Oh, and if we have the feats, can we make our own items?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 28, 2007)

I don't have the magic item compendium. If you post what they do up here, then the answer is probably yes. You can make your own items, just make sure you post how much GP and XP you've spent in it's own section. (everyone starts at 128,000 XP, which is halfway up to 17th)


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> Nac Mac Feegle:
> 
> Because I need to make tweaks, and see the full dragon statblock to do that, playing a shadow dragon is out. Also, the red dragon pact is called off because Valkith is dead and Tur'nath is blown into to very small peices according to PW Planescape cannon (which is what I use unless I say otherwise). We also have one dragon in the party. I don't want two. Githyanki isn't out though.
> 
> ...




Alright, I'll figure out a different general design - I think I'll keep exploring using psionics, but I might shift over to Psion or Wilder and go for a caster-type.  I'm going to comb the books for interesting psionic monsters, if I don't find any I might fall back on a more standard race.


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## Scurry (Oct 29, 2007)

A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> Shapechange at will, but only into other humanoids.




Oh, okay. Silly panicking me. 

I don't have a problem with that, most of the infliltration capacity comes from detect thoughts and Chameleon levels (the better to mimic your friends, my dear.) So I think I'll go with Doppleganger for now, if no one has objections. I'll start statting it up at 4HD, 10 class levels?

On the intelligent magic item: Something along the lines of an ancient, powerful thing that got thrashed back in the day, bound into a weapon/suit of armor, and wants to re-ascend. (Feel free to tell me to shaddup and play the damn doppleganger, but I figured I'd pursue this too since when else am I gonna get to play an item?)


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle:

I would personaly sugest not playing a wilder (Have you ever tried? I have. I gave up and rolled a new character after two sessions.). It is one of the weakest and least useful classes in D&D. Kinda like playing a 1 person game as a bard but bad in a diferent way. For your sake, if you want to use a psionic character use a psion or post something from complete psionic up here.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

Ah, if I can cherrypick a bit from Complete Psionic I'm sure I can make this work.  I might just make a Phrenic Elan or something.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Just tell me what you're taking. Once again, the answer is probably yes, but I like to know what to expect.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Sorry. Phrenic is actually an illegal template for a creature that's already psionic. Oops.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

I just noticed that too.  Fortunately I already realized that I really like the 8th level Psion powers, so I might just be a straight Elan Psion 11/Ectopic Adept (CP), specializing in making particularly badass astral constructs.

Feat-wise, from Complete Psionics I think I'd want to grab a variety of the Elan racial feats, which upgrade Elan powers, and the Metapower feat, which lets you permanently apply a Metapsionic feat to one power, reducing the PP surcharge by 2 points.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

I'll need that PRC posted if you want to use it (I know; you must be sick of typing up PRCs. You should probably abreviate to save some misery)


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

No worries, It's actually a good way to make sure I've read the important parts.

Gory details behind the SB:

[sblock]
Ectopic Adept, 5 level PrC.
Prereqs: Psicraft 8 ranks, Skill Focus (Craft [sculpting]), Ectopic Form (any), ability to manifest Astral Construct
1/2 BAB, Good Will, d4 hit dice
Skills (2+int): Bluff, Concentration, Craft(Sculpting), Disguise, Knowledge (all), Profession, Psicraft, Use Psionic Device
Manifesting: Levels 2-5 add +1 level to existing manifesting class

First Level: Resilient Construct, adds 2d6 temporary HP to all Astral Constructs
Second Level: Ectopic Form (bonus feat, feat detailed later)
Third Level: Rapid Creation, manifest Astral Construct as a standard action
Fourth Level: Ectopic Form (bonus feat)
Fifth Level: Double Creation, gain the ability to manifest Astral Construct even when you already have one manifested (normally only one Astral Construct can be manifest at a time)  This ability maxes out at two Astral Constructs manifest at once.


Feats:
Enhanced Elan Repletion: You never need to eat or drink ever again.
Enhanced Elan Resilience: You can prevent 4 points of damage per power point spent when using Elan Resilience.
Enhanced Elan Resistance: You gain a +6 bonus to saves instead of a +4 when using Elan Resistance
Elan Retainment: Once per day spend 3 power points to retain psionic focus when using an ability that should result in losing focus

Ectopic Form: Every time you gain this feat you get one template you can apply to created Astral Constructs, no more than one template can be applied to any construct.

Agile Loper: +4 initiative, +20ft move speed
Alabaster Aerial: Astral Construct gains a fly speed dependent upon hit dice with average maneuverability.  1-3HD: 20ft, 4-7HD: 30ft, 8+HD: 40ft
Amber Tunneler: burrow speed equal to base move speed
Anathemic Carapace: When the Astral Construct dies, it deals 1d6 plus 1d6 per hit die to every adjacent creature (reflex half, DC 10 + 1/2HD).  With a line of sight the manifester can detonate an Anathemic Carapace creature as a standard action.  Every round, starting the round after it is manifested, this damage drops by 1d6.
Astral Aquan: swim speed 60ft
Ebony Stinger: Attacks deal 1 point of con damage, (fort negates DC 10 + 1/2HD)
Emerald Gyre: Improved Grab
Iridescent Serpent: Resistance 10 to a chosen energy type, adds that energy type as enhancement to attacks
[/SBLOCK]

Thoughts?


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## kinem (Oct 29, 2007)

Here is the basic stat sheet for Harin'awt, arcanaloth wizard.  ACF, let me know what you think.  I have not yet written the background and fluff, or added mundane items.

[sblock=Harin]
Harin’awt, male Arcanaloth Wizard 1 (eff ECL 16)

Medium Outsider (Evil) 
Hit Dice: 12d8+1d4+78 (144 hp)
Initiative: +10 (+6 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) 
Speed: 30 ft., fly 45 ft. (good) 
Armor Class: 32 (+6 dex, +10 natural, +6 belt) (touch 22, ff 26)
AC w/mage armor: 36 (+6 dex, +10 natural, +4 armor, +6 belt) (touch 22, ff 30)
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+12
Attack: claw +12 melee (1d4+1+poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d4+1+poison), bite +10 melee (1d6+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. 
Special Attacks: Spells, poison, summon yugoloth, spell-like abilities 
Special Qualities: Literacy, SR 24, damage reduction 30/”+3”, yugoloth qualities, immunity
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +22

Abilities (race+inherent modified(enhanced)/+bonus (base, point cost)): 
Str 11/+0 (11, 3 pt)
Dex 18(22)/+6 (14, 6 pt)
Con 16(22)/+6 (14, 6 pt)
Int 26(32)/+11 (17, 13 pt + tome)
Wis 20/+5 (12, 4 pt)
Cha 16/+3 (8, 0 pt)

Skills (ranks/total): Spot 16/21, Listen 16/21, Sense Motive +16/21, Concentration 16/22, Diplomacy (cc) 5/8, Gather Information (cc) 5/8, Intimidate 16/19, Bluff +16/19, Move Silently (cc) 8/14, Knowledge (planes) 16/27, Knowledge (Blood War) 16/27, Knowledge (arcana) 16/27, Appraise 6/17, Alchemy 16/27, Spellcraft 16/27, Escape Artist 16/22, Use Magic Device 16/19

Feats: Iron Will, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration

Alignment: Neutral Evil 

Harin in his natural form appears as a robed man with a head like that of a fanged brown jackal.

Carry load 38/76/115

Spells: Harin can cast spells as a 13th level wizard (+17 vs. SR).

Spells/day (DC 21 + spell level): 
4 0th	4+3 1st	4+3 2nd	4+3 3rd	4+2 4th	3+2 5th	2+2 6th	1+2 7th	—	—

Spells known:	all PHB, etc.

Spells prepared (typically):

7th:	finger of death (x2), planeshift
6th:	chain lighting, disintegrate, greater dispel magic, flesh to stone
5th:	dismissal, dominate person, feeblemind, persistent image, mage’s private sanctum
4th:	dimensional anchor, black tentacles, greater invisibility (x2), enervation (x2)
3rd:	haste, clairaudience/clairvoyance, dispel magic, fireball, protection from energy, greater magic weapon, flame arrow
2nd:	false life, hideous laughter, glitterdust, web, see invisibility, owl’s wisdom, eagle’s splendor
1st:	identify, protection from good, grease, mage armor (x2), obscuring mist, true strike
0th:	ghost sound (x2), arcane mark, prestidigitation

Permanent effects:
Arcane sight (1500 xp)
Tongues (1500 xp)

Spell-Like Abilities (sp): Always active- fly; 
At will- deeper darkness, heat metal, invisibility, magic missile, quench, shapechange (no su or ex abilities, humanoid forms only), telekinesis, warp wood; 
At will- alter self, animate dead, charm person, contagion, silent image, produce flame and greater teleport.
1/day- mirage arcana and fear. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 12th level sorcerer (save DC 13 + spell level).

Poison(Ex): Claw, Fortitude save (DC 22, Con based); initial damage -1 permanent, cumulative penalty to base attack bonus, secondary damage 2d6 temporary Strength.

Summon Yugoloth(Sp): Once per day a arcanaloth can attempt to summon 1d6 mezzoloths, 1d2 dergholoths or one arcanaloth with a 40% chance of succes. 

Immunity(Ex): Arcanaloths are immune to all enchantment spells and effects. 

Literacy(Ex): Arcanaloth's can speak and write all languages.

They can only be destroyed if fought on the plane of Gehenna.
Yugoloth Immunities(Ex): Acid, fire, poison, iron weapons
Resistance(Ex): Gas 20

Weakness(Ex): Double damage from cold unless saving throw for half is allowed. 

Equipment: (260 k gp)
Amulet of health +6 (36 k)
Headband of intellect +6 (36 k)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25 k)
Monk’s belt (13 k)
Gloves of dexterity +4 (16 k)
Silent metamagic rod (11 k, up to 6th level)
Rod of absorption (50 k)
Staff of charming (16.5 k; DC 22/25, CL 13)
Blessed book (12.5 k)
Tome of clear thought +1 (27.5 k)
Wand of cure serious wounds (11.25 k)
Scrying focus mirror (1 k)
Bag of holding type I (2.5 k, wt 15 lb, 2’x4’, holds 250 lb/30 cu ft)
60 arrows (3 gp, 9 lb)

total 258,253; remaining 1,747 gp[/sblock]

The arrows are for use with the telekinesis SLA. (Hurling 12 at a time, doing damage as daggers, generally after casting Greater Magic Weapon and Flame Arrow on them.  12 arrows +26 ranged, damage 1d4+3+1d6 fire each)

BTW I don't suppose I could trade a familiar for a feat ... not that he isn't powerful enough already!


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

Just confused, how are your saves that high?


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## Zurai (Oct 29, 2007)

Outsiders get all good saves on racial HD; arcanoloths have 12 HD. That's +8 all around right there. Then he has a _cloak of resistance_ +5 for 13 all around. His Dex and Con give him +6 bonuses, so that's the 19 for Reflex and Fort. His wisdom gives him +5 and he has Iron Will for +3, bringing Will to +21.

I'm stumped on that last point of Will save, though.

Oh, wait. Wizard 1 gives him +2; he should actually have a +23 Will save


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

Ah, I missed the cloak


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> DR: I like 3e DR/magic. Your DR is 30/+3 (I count efective +1s as +.5s so a +2 keen, flaming longsword is a +3 weapon for the purposes of overcoming DR)




So how should we figure DR for things native to 3.5 (psionics is pretty much new to 3.5, hence my interest)?  I've got a random host of things that grant me DR and astral constructs pick up DR.

DR was rather higher in 3.0 (for reference, Balors and Great Wyrms have 15-20 DR in 3.5).


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle:

The class works. You raise a really good point about DR in 3e. 


kinem:
I agree that your character seems powerful (if it was a game where combat was more central I'd say too powerful) This is partly because of his high con score (not that it should matter since your 'minions' should be taking all the damage anyway). More points in dex or cha would probably be more useful in the long run (especialy since CHA determines the save DCs of your spell-like abilities and modifies diplomacy). Good RP'ing and the fact you are a greater fiend should help to offset some of the benifits.

No, you may not trade the familiar for a feat, but by all means don't summon one if you don't want one. It's a liability. Nac Mac Feecgle's point about DR being higher in 3e is right. I forgot that. Change the DR to 15/good. Also, I don't allow tomes in my games to start. I may give them out as treasure later on, though. Stat boosts should require an item.


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## Nephtys (Oct 29, 2007)

Could I have a Guardian Naga (bound by its sense of honour and unanswered love into guarding and protecting my character) as a cohort? 
If so, how would I go about increasing its casting ability, it's a bit unusual:



			
				SRD3 said:
			
		

> Spells
> Guardian nagas cast spells as 9th-level sorcerers, and can also cast spells from the cleric list and from the Good and Law domains. The cleric spells and domain spells are considered arcane spells for a guardian naga, meaning that the creature does not need a divine focus to cast them.




It seems I could just add Sorceror levels, since the divine spells are considered arcane for the GN, but I figured I should ask.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

I'm going to have to say no to the naga because the expended spell list is a major problem balance-wise for a PC or cohort. Cohorts in such a large party are also a problem for me in encounter planning.


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## Nephtys (Oct 29, 2007)

So, that's a no to the Leadership feat?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Correct. No leadership.


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## Nephtys (Oct 29, 2007)

What do you think?

[sblock=The Dragon]

Gold Dragon, Young Adult. ecl 16

Age: 90
Size: Huge, 15ft
Reach: 10ft (15 with bite)
Weight: ?
Move: 60ft, fly 200 ft (poor), swim 60 ft.
Init: +5

Str:42/+16 (16+20+6) 
Dex:20/+5 (14+ 0 +6) 
Con:30/+10 (14+10+6) 
Int:18/+4 (10 +8...)
Wis:18/+4 (10 +8...)
Cha:28/+9 (14 +8 +6)

HP: 277 (12+15d12+160)

Fort: 35 (10+10+10+5)
Ref : 30 (10+10+5+5)
Will: 29 (10+10+4+5)

AC/touch/ff: 40/13/35 (-2size +19natural +5dex +8bracers)

Bab/Grapple: +16/+40

Attack:
Bite +32, 3d8+16

Full attack: 
Bite +32/+27/+22/+17, 3d8+16. 
Claw +30, 2d6+8. 
Claw +30, 2d6+8. 
Wing +30, 1d8+8
Wing +30, 1d8+8
Tail Slap +30, 2d6+24

or Crush 2d8+24 (15ftx15ft)

or Breath Weapon: 50ft cone of fire (10d10, Ref DC 30 (10+1/2hd+Con)) or weakening gas (Fort DC 30 or-5Str).


Spells: 5th lvl Sorc
0 Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Arcane Mark, Mending, Ghost Sound, Message 
1:9: Alarm, Unseen Servant, Protection from Evil, Cure Light Wounds.
2 Mirror Image, Resist Energy.


Sla: 3/day—bless 
Frightful Presence: 150 ft, Will (10+10+9=) 29 or be panicked (1-4 HDs) or shaken (5-15 HDs) for 4d6 rounds.
DR: 5/magic
Immunities: Fire, Sleep and Paralysis effects.
Vulnerability: Cold
SR: 20
Blindsense 60ft.
Keen Senses.
Darkvision 120 ft.
Alternate Form (medium humanoid)
Water Breathing
Luck Bonus

Languages: Common, Draconic, Abyssal, Infernal, Celestial, Elven, +Terran, Ignan, Auran, Aquan, Goblin 

Skills:
Listen:.......................23 (19+4) 
Spot:.........................23 (19+4)
Diplomacy:....................30 (19+9+2)
Intimidate:...................28 (19+9) 
Knowledge (The Planes):.......23 (19+4) 
Knowledge (Arcana):...........23 (19+4) 
Knowledge (Local(Sigil)):.....23 (19+4) 
Knowledge (Religion):.........23 (19+4) 
Sense Motive:.................23 (19+4) 
Disguise:.....................18 (9+9) 
Speak Language: Terran, Ignan, Auran, Aquan, Goblin 


Feats:
Improved natural attack (Bite 2d8 to 3d8)
Multiattack
Snatch
Combat Reflexes
Power Attack
Cleave
Great Cleave


260k gp

Item of +6 Str: 36000gp
Item of +6 Dex: 36000gp
Item of +6 Con: 36000gp
Item of +6 Cha: 36000gp
Item of +5 resistance: 25000gp
Bracers of AC+8: 64000gp
Ring of Evasion: 25000gp
Handy Haversack: 2000gp
[/sblock]

[sblock=Alternate Form: Elf]
Size: Medium
Reach: 5ft
Weight: 100
Move: 30ft.
Init: +6

Str:24/+7 (16+6) 
Dex:22/+6 (14+2+6) 
Con:18/+4 (14-2+6) 

HP: 277 (12+15d12+160)

Fort: 29 (10+10+4+5)
Ref : 31 (10+10+6+5)
Will: 29 (10+10+4+5)

AC/touch/ff: 24/16/18 (+6dex +8bracers)

Bab/Grapple: +16/+23

Attack:
Weapon: +23/+18/+13/+8
[/sblock]

[sblock=Alternate Form: Snake]
Snake, Tiny Viper
Size: Tiny
Reach: 0ft
Weight: 2lbs
Move: 15ft. climb 15 ft., swim 15 ft.
Init: +6

Str:26/+3 (16-6+6) 
Dex:26/+8 (14+6+6) 
Con:20/+5 (14+6) 

HP: 277 (12+15d12+160)

Fort: 30 (10+10+5+5)
Ref : 33 (10+10+8+5)
Will: 29 (10+10+4+5)

AC/touch/ff: 30/22/22 (+8dex +8bracers +4size)

Bab/Grapple: +16/+11

Attack:
Bite: +19
[/sblock]

[sblock=Alternate Form: Eagle]
Size: Small
Reach: 5ft
Weight: 20lbs
Move: 10ft. fly 80 ft. (average)
Init: +6

Str:22/+6 (16+6) 
Dex:24/+7 (14+4+6) 
Con:22/+6 (14+2+6) 

HP: 277 (12+15d12+160)

Fort: 31 (10+10+6+5)
Ref : 32 (10+10+7+5)
Will: 29 (10+10+4+5)

AC/touch/ff: 28/19/21 (+7dex +8bracers +2size, +1 natural)

Bab/Grapple: +16/+18

Attack:
Talons: +22
[/sblock]


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Looks good. Remember your alternate form ability since it's hard for something so big to exist in Sigil.


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## Nephtys (Oct 29, 2007)

True, I'll stat up a few alternate forms


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

Just a quick note, you don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons (so you just get bite/claw/claw/wing/wing/tail instead of bite/bite/bite/bite/etc.)  Also, I don't know how you're doing racial hit dice, but dragons always have natural armor equal to HD-1, so I don't know if you want to keep the +19 of a Young Adult or take the +15 that would go with the racial levels.


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## Scurry (Oct 29, 2007)

ACF, more on that second idea (did you see that post?): After a bit of mulling over, I think I like the idea of someone trying to become a Power, rather than something that used to be one, a little better - makes the character rather more comprehensible, and the irony of someone trying to become a god whilst based in Sigil is appealing to me.

Either way, going with ~5 levels of base classes to fit the prereqs/Ur-Priest2/Mystic Theurge ~8 would make a guy with some truly prodigious spellcasting power, making the "I wanna be a god" ambition less laughable. His saves, skills, and CL would be a bit crap. (Practiced Spellcaster would alleviate the CL issues a bit.)

If it's too crazy-go-nuts powerful, having the character just take levels of Ur-Priest instead of MT would reduce their casting options.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

Scurry:
So you want to be a person, not an item? Yeah, I missed the last bit of that post. Check out godsmen faction feats in the PSCS--some of them may work. Godsmen philosphy is usually a bit nicer than stealing divine power. Again, I hate to do this, but I don't have the Ur-Priest, so I can't make any comments balence-wise just yet.  


Nac Mac Feegle & Nephtys:

I never knew about the correlation between HD and armor. An AC of 40 is a bit high. I think it may be a good idea to drop the natural AC.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

Even an AC of 36 is nothing to sneeze at 

I take it you're gearing up to be our front-line fighter?


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## Nephtys (Oct 29, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Just a quick note, you don't get iterative attacks with natural weapons (so you just get bite/claw/claw/wing/wing/tail instead of bite/bite/bite/bite/etc.)




That's a bit silly, though it's probably true. Would he get iterative attacks if he wedged a dagger as a toothpick between two of his teeth? Would he get iterative attacks (in addition to the other natural attacks) if he held a weapon in one of his claws like some other monsters (the Marilith for ex.)? If so, then why shouldn't he get iterative attacks with his primary natural weapon? Dragons are not some dumb animals, after all, but skilled fighters.
One of those inconsistensies that will hopefully be corrected in the new edition.

I'll fix it.

A Crazy Fool, can a dragon wield a weapon in one of its claws and get iterative attacks that way? (Their claws have to be pretty dextrous or they wouldn't be able to play with all the coins and trinkets in their hoards) Can a dragon use some rare exotic draconic tooth dagger, or a nasty set of tooth-braces, and get iterative attacks that way?




			
				A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> Nac Mac Feegle & Nephtys:
> 
> I never knew about the correlation between HD and armor. An AC of 40 is a bit high. I think it may be a good idea to drop the natural AC.




I had no idea. Could I just get rid of the braces of armour instead?  
(its fine, just kidding)




			
				Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Even an AC of 36 is nothing to sneeze at
> 
> I take it you're gearing up to be our front-line fighter?




Maybe, it depends on what we're up against and where we're fighting. He's very weak in alternate form, and depending on where the game takes us that could be a lot of the time.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 29, 2007)

It's not really an inconsistency.  The system is that you can't use natural attacks if you're wielding a normal weapon, so you have the choice of wielding a weapon with iterative attacks or a full set of attacks with all your natural weapons.  I mean, you shouldn't feel bad, instead of of getting 4 attacks at progressively worse bonuses, you get 6 at full.


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## Shayuri (Oct 29, 2007)

As someone who's played several dragons in several games, I have some RAW answers. Crazy is of course, welcome to HR. 

1) Weapons. Dragons cannot use manufactured weapons in their claws. They can use special weapons made to fit over the tips of their tails, or that augment their natural weapons...but those are considered to still be natural weapons for multiple attack purposes. A dragon in a humanoid shape could use weapons, and get iterative attacks, but dragons do not get any weapon proficiencies that I am aware of, so you'd need to blow a feat on it.

- Ah ha! Metallic dragons that have Alternate Form DO get Simple weapon proficiency. Again, mostly useful for alternate form, since they can't manipulate weapons with their claws.

2) Alternate Form. Assuming forms that cannot wear a particular item causes that item to meld with the form, and become inoperative. Specifically, bracers would work for dragons and humanoids, but not snakes or eagles. Similarly, some of your statboosters might not work while in some forms as well, depending on what they wind up being.

3) ECL - A 16HD dragon is not ECL 16, nor balanced to be adventuring with ECL 16s. Even with Crazy's rather relaxed ECL rules, it seems kind of weird that several of us have 14 HD or less and are considered to be ECL 16, while the dragon, which has the best monster HD of all, has full HD. Admittedly, since we're all on the same side, it's not really any skin off my nose...but if you want to know why there's such a big jump in AC, HP, attack bonus and so on with the dragon as compared to the rest of us...that's why.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

I looked at the numbers again (Numbers are not my friends. They threaten to eat me.) Shayuri is right. 277 HP, etc. is way high. Looking at it again, a juvenile gold dragon with HD reduced to 14 would work better (and be a more reasonable size to boot). The drop in power may be a bit much, and if it is we can add a class level or two. (I've only run 2 dragons in my entire D&D career. Their statblocks scare the willies out of me.)


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## Scurry (Oct 29, 2007)

Initially, the character was an item, yeah, but I realized that that was mostly window-dressing on the concept, and simpler is probably better in that respect.


Ur Priest prereqs and caster progression (the only part of the class the guy would get):[sblock]

Ur-priests despise gods. However, a small number of them have learned to tap into divine power and use it for their own needs without praying to or worshiping a deity.
Instead, each day they go into a trance and mentally steal the power that gods normally channel to devout clerics. Ur-priests are canny and cunning, never stealing too much
power from any one deity, but instead metaphysically slip in, draw out the power they need for their spells, and slip out again. They learn to be resilient toward divine power
and creative with the energies that they steal. The greatest ur-priest commands the level of power of the most powerful cleric, although she does not have the cleric’s variety of spellcasting options.
A member of any class can become an ur-priest, even— and in fact, especially—an ex-cleric.
Ur-priests frequently work alone, although they occasionally find partnerships with members of other classes useful.
They do not congregate into anything resembling temples, for they fear that too many of them in one place might draw unwanted divine attention. And of course they rarely associate
with clerics or any other divine spellcasters, whom they see as lackeys and who view them as abominations.

Adaptation: This prestige class is written to describe characters who steal divine power from the gods and use it themselves. It’s also a good choice, however, for ex-clerics of gods who’ve somehow lost their connection to their deity (because the deity died, disappeared, or faded from existence because he had too few worshipers). Secret societies of ur-priests could exist for the express purpose of elevating (or reelevating) someone or something to godhood.
Hit Die: d8.

Alignment: Any evil.
Base Save Bonus: Fort +3, Will +3.
Skills: Bluff 6 ranks, Knowledge (arcana) 5 ranks,
Knowledge (the planes) 5 ranks, Knowledge (religion) 8
ranks, Spellcraft 8 ranks.
Feats: Iron Will, Spell Focus (evil).
Special: The character must have no ability to cast divine spells. If such spellcasting ability was previously possessed (as with an ex-cleric), that ability is forever forsaken.
The character must be trained by another ur-priest.


```
—————— Spells per Day ——————
      0  1st 2nd 3rd 4th 5th 6th 7th 8th 9th
1st   4   2   —   —   —   —   —   —   —   —
2nd   5   3   0   —   —   —   —   —   —   —
3rd   5   3   1   0   —   —   —   —   —   —
4th   6   3   2   1   0   —   —   —   —   —
5th   6   3   3   2   1   0   —   —   —   —
6th   6   3   3   3   2   1   0   —   —   —
7th   6   4   3   3   3   2   1   0   —   —
8th   6   4   4   3   3   3   2   1   0   —
9th   6   5   4   4   4   4   3   2   1   0
10th  6   5   5   4   4   4   4   3   2   1
```


Caster level is calculated by Ur-Priest class level+1/2other spellcasting class levels[/sblock]

I can post the rest of the class if you like, I'm just lazy.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 29, 2007)

If there's other stuff I might need (I'm thinking how they steal power from the gods, etc. (stuff I'd need to understand the class)) It uses the cleric list, right?


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## Scurry (Oct 30, 2007)

Yeah, it uses the cleric list, no spontaneous casting, and the character would be sufficiently tight on feats that Spontaneous Foo feats would be hard to take. 

I've edited the previous post to add the flavor paragraphs from CD. I'd like to lean the flavor a little more towards the "ascending to godhood" option, of course, though I don't see him putting together a little cell of Ur-Priests for that purpose anytime soon.


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## Nephtys (Oct 30, 2007)

Then I think I'll be better off playing a Trumpet Archon, Ghaele Eladrin or perhaps even a Xill with multiweapon fighting...

Remember that in his dragon form he can't deal with most forms of DR or regeneration, his touch AC is terrible (he's a Harm-magnet) and his immunity to fire is a much lesser deal than his vulnerability to cold. All he's really good at is scaring mobs (which is a huge weakness in populated areas) and standing toe to toe with other melee monsters (without DR). He won't cast spells in combat, as a 5th level caster his spells aren't worth the time to cast and their durations are too short to be cast with much foresight.
In humanoid form he's extremely weak since he simply cannot afford the equipment he'd need to be a viable fighter, and the animal forms are just for scouting. ACF has already implied that he would have to spend a lot of time in his alternate forms, so this could be a huge issue. 
Knock him down to Juvenile and he won't even he able to harm incorporeal undead (and it isn't a good idea to fight some of them (as well as oozes, pseudoelementals and a lot of other nasties) with only natural weapons anyway.) The breath weapon can only be used in pretty specific instances, like when we're not fighting in a city of wooden houses. 


Now, on the other hand, let's take a look at the Arcanoloth.
Outsider HDs, nearly as good as Dragon with less HPs but more skills. Massive immunities and ungodly DR. Plenty of useful and powerful spells as SLAs in addition to being able to cast as a 13th level Wizard. Superior SR, not inconsiderable natural armour, and this little bonus... 
They can only be destroyed if fought on the plane of Gehenna.

I don't think my dragon is that imbalanced, after all.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 30, 2007)

So...each dragon level will give you natural armor and 2 extra hit points.  Also, I just don't see where the problem in lacking an iterative attack is.  Having 6 attacks at your full BAB doesn't seem lacking to me.

Of course, the usual caveats of it being your character not mine apply.  Just advice.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 30, 2007)

The not killable except on Ghenna part means that (like all other outsiders off of thier home plane) will reform on Ghenna if they are killed elsewhere. They are still dead when you kill them. They just come back again (I rule in a few days). 

The main problem with the dragon is the HP & strength and con. 12th level caster or not, an arcanaloth can't deal--or take for that matter--a fraction of what a Huge dragon can. DR 15/good isn't great on the planes. People expect to fight fiends (and incedentaly, not dragons. Many wouldn't have heard of dragons at all.) also, holy weapons aren't uncommon, and a 'loth is a walking celestial magnet too. I'd still play the dragon if this was a combat campaign. Your full attack will hit practically anything and will do more damage than most spells a 12th level caster has access to. Every round. 

Honestly, an outsider would fit better, though (it is Planescape). A fallen good outsider is also a great adition to any not-nice party (more plot hooks for me too, many, many more). Outsiders are also *much* easier for me to eyeball since thier CRs and HD are usually pretty close together.


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## Nephtys (Oct 30, 2007)

So, how would you feel about a fallen Ghaele (Eladrin) 13cr+1cleric? They're quite the opposite of the original version of my dragon, they can't take much damage and they can't deal very much, but their flexible and powerful spellcasters. 
I considered taking the Trumpet Archon, but figured the trumpet would be too disruptive to both friends and enemies alike. A Barghest would be great too, but the Feed ability would probably be a bit too powerful in the hands of a PC.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 30, 2007)

Nephtys

This works. Since you are fallen, though, you lose your gaze and protective aura abilities  but can have three class levels (2 are to make up for the lost abilities--protective aura is a very, very powerful ability, and you only start with 10 HD. Gaze isn't weak either) You should talk with Shayuri to see which caster roles each of you want to fill


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 30, 2007)

So that'll make him a 17th level cleric, right?  I'll admit, I'd personally want to hesitate at assigning a CR lower that caster level to a Ghaele.  I think the Ghaele is a little buggy, frankly, because it gives the effective benefits of a 14th level cleric with full BAB and all good saves on CR 13.


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm! Well, I could always respec to the scout build...

I haven't been paying attention to the party roles already around.

Right now, nymphadora is spellspecced for blasty, but can spontaneously swap for summoning and healing...

Still, a straight cleric caster would really be a much better healer.


----------



## Nephtys (Oct 30, 2007)

I just took another look at the Glabrezu and I could easily make a viable character with that race too, but I'm sure somebody would raise even more objections... Maybe I'll just wait until Nac Mac Feegle has posted his character so I know what the norm is for this game.


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2007)

I wasn't objecting to you being a ghale!

I just wanted to coordinate with you a bit is all.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 30, 2007)

It's important remember I am eyeballing all of this, pointing stuff out really helps me. Characters will be powerful, but RP'ing will solve (and create) more problems than combat will. If nobody plays kick-in-the-doors or lookit me, I'm a munchkin, I don't think there will be a problem. 

The ghalee only casts at 12th level, and has 10 hd, so with 3 levels of cleric, you have 15th level. Using kinem's character as a comparison the two of you are actuall pretty close. 

As I see it:

You have a much more useful DR (evil and cold iron). greater physical scores, and higher caster level. (you lose your most powerful two abilities, remember. By my reckoning, protective aura is worth close to a +1 to CR boost in and of itself)

The arcanaloth has considerably better SLAs and better mental ability scores as well as 2 more HD and the poisonous claws.


----------



## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 30, 2007)

Also, just a heads up, I'm still building the specifics (working out which psionics I have is a headache) but I'll be pretty basic in concept.  Elan Psion 11/Ectopic Adept 5, specialist in summoning big nasties to fight for me.

The upshot of this is that I can likely serve essentially as the party tank since it looks like we'll be a team of casters (which frankly seems somewhat the norm for high-levels).  If I focus an Astral Construct on defense I can put out a Large Construct with 150hp, AC 37 and DR 15/Magic.  The offensive capabilities are a little less crazy, but I can provide excellent meat-shields for us.


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## kinem (Oct 30, 2007)

This should hopefully work as the final version.

[sblock=Harin stats]Harin’awt, male Arcanaloth Wizard 1 (eff ECL 16)

XP:	125,000 (after xp spent on permanencies)

Medium Outsider (Evil) 
Hit Dice: 12d8+1d4+78 (144 hp)
Initiative: +10 (+6 Dex, +4 Improved Initiative) 
Speed: 30 ft., fly 45 ft. (good) 
Armor Class: 32 (+6 dex, +10 natural, +6 belt) (touch 22, ff 26)
AC w/mage armor: 36 (+6 dex, +10 natural, +4 armor, +6 belt) (touch 22, ff 30)
Base Attack/Grapple: +12/+12
Attack: claw +12 melee (1d4+poison)
Full Attack: 2 claws +12 melee (1d4+poison), bite +10 melee (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft. by 5 ft./5 ft. 
Special Attacks: Spells, poison, summon yugoloth, spell-like abilities 
Special Qualities: Literacy, SR 24, damage reduction 15/good, yugoloth qualities, immunity
Saves: Fort +19, Ref +19, Will +22

Abilities (race modified(enhanced)/+bonus (base, point cost)): 
Str 10/+0 (10, 2 pt)
Dex 18(22)/+6 (14, 6 pt)
Con 16(22)/+6 (14, 6 pt)
Int 24(30)/+10 (16, 10 pt)
Wis 20/+5 (12, 4 pt)
Cha 20/+5 (12, 4 pt)

Skills (ranks/total): Spot 16/21, Listen 8/13, Sense Motive +16/21, Concentration 16/22, Disguise (cc) 4/9 (19 w/hat), Diplomacy (cc) 8/17, Gather Information (cc) 5/10, Intimidate 13/20, Bluff +16/21, Move Silently (cc) 8/14, Knowledge (planes) 16/26, Knowledge (Blood War) 16/26, Knowledge (arcana) 16/26, Appraise 3/13, Spellcraft 16/26, Escape Artist 16/22, Use Magic Device 16/21

Feats: Iron Will, Improved Initiative, Multiattack, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration

Alignment: Neutral Evil 

Carry load 33/66/100

Spells: Harin can cast spells as a 13th level wizard (+17 vs. SR).

Spells/day (DC 20 + spell level): 
4 0th	4+3 1st	4+3 2nd	4+2 3rd	4+2 4th	3+2 5th	2+2 6th	1+1 7th	—	—

Spells known:	all PHB, etc.

Spells prepared (typically):

7th:	finger of death (x2)
6th:	chain lighting, disintegrate, greater dispel magic, flesh to stone
5th:	dismissal, dominate person, feeblemind, persistent image, mage’s private sanctum
4th:	dimensional anchor, black tentacles, greater invisibility (x2), enervation (x2)
3rd:	haste, dispel magic, fireball, protection from energy, greater magic weapon, flame arrow
2nd:	false life, hideous laughter, glitterdust, web, see invisibility, owl’s wisdom, eagle’s splendor
1st:	identify, protection from good, grease, mage armor (x2), obscuring mist, true strike
0th:	ghost sound (x2), arcane mark, prestidigitation

Permanent effect:
Arcane sight (1500 xp)

Spell-Like Abilities (sp): Always active- fly; 
At will- deeper darkness, heat metal, invisibility, magic missile, quench, shapechange (no su or ex abilities, humanoid forms only), telekinesis, warp wood; 
At will- alter self, animate dead, charm person, contagion, silent image, produce flame and greater teleport.
1/day- mirage arcana and fear. These abilities are as the spells cast by a 12th level sorcerer (save DC 15 + spell level).

Poison(Ex): Claw, Fortitude save (DC 22, Con based); initial damage -1 permanent, cumulative penalty to base attack bonus, secondary damage 2d6 temporary Strength.

Summon Yugoloth(Sp): Once per day a arcanaloth can attempt to summon 1d6 mezzoloths, 1d2 dergholoths or one arcanaloth with a 40% chance of succes. 

Immunity(Ex): Arcanaloths are immune to all enchantment spells and effects. 

Literacy(Ex): Arcanaloth's can speak and write all languages.

They can only be destroyed if fought on the plane of Gehenna.
Yugoloth Immunities(Ex): Acid, fire, poison, iron weapons
Resistance(Ex): Gas 20

Weakness(Ex): Double damage from cold unless saving throw for half is allowed. 

Equipment: (260 k gp)
Amulet of health +6 (36 k)
Headband of intellect +6 (36 k)
Cloak of resistance +5 (25 k)
Monk’s belt (13 k)
Gloves of dexterity +4 (16 k)
Silent metamagic rod (11 k, up to 6th level)
Rod of absorption (50 k)
Staff of charming (16.5 k; DC 21/24, CL 13)
Blessed book (12.5 k) (spells are in here)
Wand of cure serious wounds (11.25 k)
Wand of align weapon (4.5 k)
Scrying focus mirror (1 k)
Handy haversack (2 k)
50 sling bullets (1 gp, 25 lb)
50 cold iron sling bullets (2 gp, 25 lb)
50 silver sling bullets (101 gp, 25 lb)
Ring of mind shielding (8 k)
Pearls of power (1st, 2nd, 3rd) (14 k)
Hat of disguise (1.8 k)
MW manacles with amazing lock (0.2 k)
Spellbook (blank) (0.015 k)
Mirror (0.010 k)
Ink, pen & paper (0.010 k)
Wine, fine bottle (0.010 k)
boulder (300 lb) with permanent Shrink Item effect (cost 1500 xp)
MW rapier (320 gp)
Diamond dust (500 gp)
20 pp, 80 gp, 10 sp

total 260,000

Notes:
Sling bullets are normally in 3 bags of 50, stored in central haversack.  Bullets seem easier to dump out and gather up than arrows.
When prepared with Greater Magic Weapon, Flame Arrow, and perhaps Align Weapon (from wand), using telekinesis SLA:
Attack 12 sling bullets +25 ranged (1d4+3 + 1d6 fire)

The shrinking boulder is used to smash up golems and the like, as they are immune to spells.  300 lb boulder w/telekinesis:
Attack boulder +22 ranged (12d6)

The rapier is mainly for show.  He is not proficient with it, but his general combat skills (BAB) allow him to be reasonably accurate with it when sparring with lesser beings.
Attack rapier +9/+4 melee (1d6, crit 18/x2)[/sblock]

[sblock=description]Harin in his natural form appears as a robed man with a head like that of a fanged brown jackal.  However, most of the time while in Sigil he uses his Hat of Disguise to appear humanoid.  (He uses it instead of shapechange in order to retain his natural armor and other resistances.)

He often appears as a robed blond human man, giving his name as Allen and admitting to being a wizard.

Another disguise he uses is that of Thallel, a dark-green-haired elf with a rougish appearance who always sports a rapier at his side.

Despite his distain for mortals, these disguises allow him to operate in Sigil while attracting a minimum amount of attention.  He does not want to draw the ire of Shemeska by openly appearing as a rival, and does not want his enemies to know where he is.  Together with his ring of mind shielding, the disguises also screen him from most random hostility from paladins, celestials and their ilk.

When simply travelling from one are to another, if he does not teleport, he will typically make himself invisible and fly.

Harin is proud of his ability to win battles even against powerful enemies or magic immune creatures, thanks to his clever preparations and carefully gathered items.  Of course, he prefers to know well in advance what he will face so he can prepare spells and plans.  While he like a good fight on occasion, he knows that it is often important to prevail by less direct means.

Some of his main enemies are Tanarri that he double crossed at some point, but his real fear is that the pit fiend he swindled wishes from – he does not know the Baatzeu’s name - will figure it out and bother to come after him.  That was over three centuries ago, but fiends have long memories, and often play subtle games of revenge that take years to play out.  Frannisa, the female arcanaloth that used to be a sort of mate to him years ago, was in on the game – equally guilty, but that does not comfort him; they did not part as allies.  He has no idea where she is, and divinations always failed when he tried that.

Harin’s curiousity sometimes gets the better of him, and he will sometimes allow himself to travel to strange places even at certain risks to himself.  Gehenna is the one plane he would avoid at almost any cost – too many enemies wait for him there, and it is the one plane where he is truely at risk of being slain.  Sigil, therefore, is not a bad place to stay while he plots his next move.  Nominally, he is currently an agent of the Tower of Arcanaloths and occasionally secures material and items for the library in exchange for the privilege to access certain of the records – and for not having his own location made public.

Recently, he made a foolish investment in “soul food” – which turned out to be a fraud, a mere style of actual food on some obscure Prime plane, not made of souls as he’d been promised and ‘shown’ by the fallen deva turned grifter, now vanished – and this has caused his current cash crunch; he now has few financial assets aside from the magic items on his back.  While he seeks revenge, he feels a need to swiftly rebuild his fortune, so he would be open to opportunities should they arise.[/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm!

I meant to ask before, but are you sure a Monk's Belt gives Wis bonus to AC?

Most GM's I've asked seem to fall in the camp that it just gives the +1 AC bonus a monk gets for being 5th level.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 30, 2007)

Quick note: after combing through things for a while, I finally found exactly two monsters that manifest as psions, Illithids and Ullithards.  I may swap up to one of those instead, to try to get in on the stat-boosts and classy abilities.

Ullithards are from the Lords of Madness book, I can quote you the stats if you think it would work.  (I'd have to lose Ectopic Adept to keep the manifest level 15, not sure whether I'd do that or keep adept and lose the 8th level powers at least at game start).


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 30, 2007)

Nac: Mac Feegle:
Reusable meat shields are good. I'd strongly prefer that you use an ilthilid, though, because I have the stats. go for 6 class levels for now. 


Shayuri/ kinem:

which book is the monk's belt in. I can't find it in my dmg to rule on it (then again it is pretty early in the morning).

kinem:
looks good, but concepwise, you may need to account for the fact that you will have to deal with the Marauder in some capacity quite a bit. As long as you don't have anything that she doesn't take ofense to in your background, you should be fine (fine is obviously a very relative term)


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2007)

It's in the DMG/SRD

Under "Belt, Monk's."


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## Nephtys (Oct 30, 2007)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I wasn't objecting to you being a ghale!
> 
> I just wanted to coordinate with you a bit is all.




Sorry Shayuri, I wasn't writing about you. The cleric spell list is pretty versatile, but with the Ghaeles high natural strength, DR and AC I suppose I would do well in the fighter/cleric role.




			
				A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> It's important remember I am eyeballing all of this, pointing stuff out really helps me. Characters will be powerful, but RP'ing will solve (and create) more problems than combat will. If nobody plays kick-in-the-doors or lookit me, I'm a munchkin, I don't think there will be a problem.
> 
> The ghalee only casts at 12th level, and has 10 hd, so with 3 levels of cleric, you have 15th level. Using kinem's character as a comparison the two of you are actuall pretty close.
> 
> ...




That's fair. I lose two caster level from the Ghaele's 14, but get them back as extra cleric levels which gives me some much needed HPs.

I would enjoy playing a melee-monster since I usually play spellcasters, but the Glabrezu would have the same problems as the Dragon with huge size, a str of 42, con of 40, an AC of 40 and 263 HPs as well as some useful SLAs. In other words he'd be about the equivalent of two of Nac Mac's astral constructs .


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2007)

Whoa...what Glabrezu is that? The Glab I see in the SRD only has 173 HP...Str 31, Con 31. Still very very good, but not nearly as good as you've got there.

...of course, we're starting with better attributes. And magic items.

Nevermind. 

Heee


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 30, 2007)

Nephtys said:
			
		

> Sorry Shayuri, I wasn't writing about you. The cleric spell list is pretty versatile, but with the Ghaeles high natural strength, DR and AC I suppose I would do well in the fighter/cleric role.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




What my constructs will largely lack is big attacks (they could put out maybe a quarter the damage of your dragon) and synergy with the divine (astral constructs aren't healed by cure spells, I'll probably just be resummoning if I lose a guy).

Crazy: I can post the Ulitharid stats when I get back to my desktop, but they're almost the same as Mind Flayers except with slightly better stats, large, and a waaaaaay bigger ego.  My preference for it is a little selfish, since I could scrape the same total effective psion level out of either and Ulitharid would give better fringe benefits (Better stats than the outsiders, I think, but Aberration racial dice aren't nearly as good, they only get 3/4 BAB and bad Fort and Reflex).


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 30, 2007)

Gory details behind the statblock.  Bringing the aberration team to keep up with all you pesky outsiders.

[sblock]
Large Aberration
Hit Dice: 12d8
Speed: 30ft
Natural Armor: +5
Full Attack: 2 long tentacles (10ft reach) and 4 short ones (5ft reach).  1d6 base damage
Special Attacks: Extract (as mind flayer), Improved Grab (as mind flayer), mind blast (as mind flayer but DC 16+charisma bonus), psionics (manifests as a 13th level psion automatically specializing in Telepathy).
Special Qualities: Power Resistance 27, Telepathy 200ft
Stats: Str +6, Dex +4, Con +6, Int +10, Wis + 6, Cha + 10
CR: 12

As an aberration, racial hit dice give 3/4 BAB, 2+int skill points per level, good will, bad fort and reflex.

One in every few hundred illithid tadpoles grows into an Ulitharid, a bigger, meaner, nastier mind flayer.  Ulitharids are treated almost like minor deities by other mind flayers, and they tend to acquire egos to match.  In the societal structure of mind flayers Ulitharids occupy a place just below the Elder Brains.[/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Oct 30, 2007)

Hmm.

I'm a little concerned my character might not really have a role... Right now she's all set to be second best healer, second best blaster, fourth or fifth best warrior type, even accounting for buffed up dire wolf...probably third best face... And druids aren't terribly well suited for planar adventures, magicwise.

Maybe I should rethink my concept. Don't worry, I'll make it fast.

What's the current roster of characters, myself excluded?


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

Umm, I think we've got the half-fiend warlock (*shakes fist at the Hellfire Warlock PrC*), the Slaadi master of the unseen hand, the arcanoloth wizard, the ur-priest, and me as some variety of mind flayer (Illithid or Ulitharid) psion, and the Ghaele cleric.

Warlock is blasty (extremely so given how crazy the Hellfire PrC is), Master of the Unseen Hand is as close as we have to a fighter - and the only guy we have without spellcasting levels - and the wizard will probably be versatile but with blasty.  Ghaele has fairly good healing, the Ur-Priest could swing either way in terms of how it goes healing/blasting.  I'm going to have decent blasting, but more focused on summoning and mind-screwing.

The simple fact is that everyone in this party is going to be at near full casting progression, at this level it's a caster's game, especially with people able to use various monsters that get casting progression.

There will be some unavoidable toe-stepping in a party of 7 casters.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 31, 2007)

Monk's belt only provides a +1 bonus to AC. I managed to check.


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## Shayuri (Oct 31, 2007)

Hmmm...

Perhaps I should respec and go for a fighty type.

Or...crikey, do we have a Face? A smooth operator?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 31, 2007)

kinem's 'loth dosen't have a very high charisma. A face would help, as would annother more stabbitty type. Your choice.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

I could possibly double as the face (for a certain value).  I won't the most _presentable_ type, but I'll have very high charisma (for Mind Blasting) and telepaths get a good host of brain-controlling powers.

Also, CF, got a ruling on the Ulitharid?


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 31, 2007)

I have a mild preference towards the regular ilthilid because I playtested it, but you can choose. Being an ultratharid is like being a greater feind. There are lots of nonmechanical benifits and drawbacks too. Ultratharid would have 2 levels, an ilthilid would have 8. 
(expect githyanki and githzerai assasination atempts either way.)


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

I could do the Illithid, I just figured as long as I had a chance to be wacky with CR I'd try out being a crazy mind flayer prophet-type, it felt like it fit high-level evil.  I can do that with a normal mind flayer too if you want.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 31, 2007)

I really don't care which, but you'll have to find a convincing reason why an ultratharid would abandon the ilthilid power structure and work with thrall-races (actually, the same applies for a normal mind-flayer too, but to a lesser degree)


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## kinem (Oct 31, 2007)

I'm OK with the monk's belt ruling, but I'm used to the Wis bonus being included as it falls under a monk's AC bonus.  But I admit it can be overpowered.

I swapped out the belt and a couple of other items for a mithral buckler +5 (0% ASF) and a ring of protection +1, and made a few other minor changes and corrections.

Harin is not optimized as a high level 'face' but could still do a decent job of social interaction (diplomacy +17, bluff +21, sense motive +21).


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## Shayuri (Oct 31, 2007)

Mew. Between a wizard, a telepathic psion, and Kinem's face, probably no need for a Beguiler.

I'll see what I can do as far as a warrioriffic sort goes.


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## kinem (Oct 31, 2007)

A beguiler could be useful ...

Personally I don't think you should choose based on trying to balance the party.  Play what interests you most.  If we all end up the same thing and get in trouble because of it, so be it!


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

At this level with the options open to us, we shouldn't be worried about balance.  We could be a party entirely made of wizards and still kick ass and take names.

Style-wise, the plan I'm going with is going to be basically a mind flayer prophet/visionary.  A visionary who people think is a little weird, but might just have something.

And yes, I know either way I'm asking for some trouble from other races, but given that we're going to have fiends, fallen angels and the kitchen sink in the party, I don't doubt we'll already be a trouble magnet 

EDIT: Having thought it over, I think I'll stick to standard Flayer so that I can take prestige class levels (I still like the idea of ectopic adept).  It'll drop my manifester level to 14 so I'll lose 8th level powers at least for now, but I'll have the whole double-summoning thing as an option.


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## Shayuri (Oct 31, 2007)

Well, it's for selfish reasons too. I'd like to be important to the group. 

That said, you have a point. Usefulness is more than just numbers and spell lists.


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## ethandrew (Oct 31, 2007)

It should be pointed out the effectiveness of my Slaad. With full attacks he will get the following:

4 Claws at +26 dealing 2d6+6 and one bite at +24 dealing 2d8+3 (+26/+26/+26/+26/+24)

All that is without any magical gear, so it could go up.

He also is practically a professional at using Telekinesis, able to cast it unlimited times in a day, even able to use sustained force while still being able to fully attack.

All said and done, however, he is not as effective at being the only melee combatant. His save DC versus T.K. is relatively low (18) sans magic. Investing in a cloak of charisma +6 will only bump that up to 21. So, take from that what you will. I know physical combat is going to be the lesser of the interactions available anyway.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

And as I said, I'll be backing up the physical end of our power spectrum with Astral Constructs.

Ugh, I'm waffling again.  I just keep realizing that Ulithard is just strictly better power-wise, because it gives the same effective manifester level with much higher stats - it's more on par with the Ghaele and the Arcanaloth in power and equivalent level.

Give me a night to sleep on it and I'll work out which I'll be and I'll write up a definitive character sheet soon.


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## kinem (Oct 31, 2007)

BTW, are we allowed to swap out the feats listed for the base monster?  I haven't, but it would be nice.  Multiattack does not do much for an arcanaloth.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 31, 2007)

kinem:
yes, you can swap feat lists

Nac Mac Feegle:
you raise a good point, the ultratharid would be closer to the arcanaloth and ghalee.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

Alright, I'm going with the Ulitharid (can't be shown up by some silly outsiders, now can I?), so one more question before I get the character sheet all written up: How fast do you anticipate us advancing?

I ask because as an Ulitharid I can only take two levels of a class, and the real payoff of Ectopic Adept doesn't happen until 5th level (that's when you can have two constructs summoned at a time instead of one), and it loses a manifester level at first, so I'll be losing the ability to manifest 8th level constructs at first.


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## A Crazy Fool (Oct 31, 2007)

advancement will be pretty slow


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Oct 31, 2007)

Alright, one Ulitharid Metacreative coming up.

EDIT: Well, actually, technically an Ulitharid Telepath with the Expanded Knowledge feat to be able to manifest Astral Constructs.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 1, 2007)

Character sheet below the stat block.

[sblock]
Nalakt
Male Ulithard Telepath 2
Alignment: LE
Height: 9'11”
Weight: 201lbs
CR: 14

Str: 18 (+4) [0 points, +6 racial, +4 item] 
Dex: 22 (+6) [6 points, +4 racial, +4 item] 
Con: 20 (+5) [2 points, +6 racial, +4 item]
Int: 34 (+13) [16 points, +10 racial, +6 item] 
Wis: 20 (+5) [2 points, +6 racial, +4 item] 
Cha: 30 (+10) [6 points, +10 racial, +6 item] 

Racial Abilities:  PR 27, Telepathy 200', Mind Blast (DC 27), Tentacle attacks, Improved Grab, Extract Brain

Class Abilities:  Bonus feat, Discipline (Telepathy), Psionic powers

Hit Dice: 12d8+2d4+70
HP: 132/132
AC: 32 (+12 Armor (inertial barrier), +6 Dex, +5 Natural, -1 size), 38 with Mental Barrier, 44 with Force Screen, 48/50 with Defensive Precognition (48 if manifested as a swift action)
Init: +6 (+6 Dex)
Speed: 30ft 

Saves (+4/6 with Defensive Precognition):
 Fortitude +16 [+4 base, +5 Con, +5 resistance, +2 Psicrystal]
 Reflex +15 [+4 base, +6 Dex, +5 resistance]
 Will +25 [+11 base, +5 Wis, +5 resistance, +4 insight]

+5 to saves vs. Energy Drain, Death Effect, Inflict Spells, reroll such a failed save once/day

BAB/Grapple: +10/+18
Melee Atk: Tentacle +13 [1d6+4 damage, x2]
Melee Full Atk: 6 tentacles +13 [1d6+4 damage, x2]

Skills :
 Autohypnosis +24 [17 ranks, +5 Con, +2 synergy]
 Bluff +29 [17 ranks, +10 Cha, +2 synergy]
 Concentration +24 [17 ranks, +5 Con, +2 synergy]
 Diplomacy +27 [17 ranks, +10 Cha]
 Disguise +20 [8 ranks, +10 Cha, +2 synergy]
 Gather Information +27 [17 ranks, +10 Cha]
 Intimidate +29 [17 ranks, +10 Cha, +2 synergy]
 Knowledge: History +29 [17 ranks, +12 Int]
 Knowledge: Psionics +29 [17 ranks, +12 Int]
 Listen +22 [17 ranks, +5 wis]
 Psicraft +29 [17 ranks, +12 Int]
 Sense Motive +22 [17 ranks, +5 Wis]
 Spot +14 [9 ranks, +5 Wis]

Feats:
Psicrystal Affinity (1st)
Expanded Knowledge (3rd)
Overchannel (6th)
Talented (9th)
Psicrystal Containment (12th)
Boost Construct (Psion Bonus 1st)

Languages: Abyssal, Aquan, Auran, Celestial, Common, Draconic, Dwarven, Elven, Giant, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Ignan, Infernal, Orc, Terran

Equipment:
Belt of +4 Strength (16,000)
Gloves +4 Dexterity (16,000)
Amulet of +4 Constitution (16,000)
Headband +6 Intelligence (36,000)
Boots of +2 Wisdom (6,000)
Cloak of +6 Charisma (36,000)
Vest of Resistance +5 (25,000)
Bracers of Disguise (2,700)
Ring of Evasion (25,000)
Crystal Mask of Mind Armor (10,667)
Skin of Fiendish Embrace (48,000)
Bracers of Armor +3 with Greater Lifekeeping Augment (14,000)

Money: 6,633 gp

Psionic Powers Known:
1st: Astral Construct, Defensive Precognition, Inertial Armor, Force Screen, Charm, Ecto Protection
2nd: Mental Barrier, Energy Stun, Specific Energy Adaptation
3rd: Telekinetic Thrust, Solicit Psicrystal, Forced Share Pain, Body Adjustment
4th: Dominate, Schism, Telekinetic Maneuver, Psionic Dimension Door
5th: Shatter Mind Blank, Telekinetic Buffer, Stygian Domination, Psychic Crush, Psionic Plane Shift
6th: Overland Flight, Inconstant Location
7th: Energy Wave, Energy Claw, Crisis of Life
8th: True Metabolism, Iron Body, Greater Teleport
[/sblock]


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## kinem (Nov 1, 2007)

Yikes!  I'm of the opinion that psions are very powerful.  Not that you took some of the really broken stuff like Energy Stun.

You don't get the ability increases for levelling up from racial HD.

Also, you can't wear a cloak of charisma and a cloak of resistance at the same time.  Don't just list the bonuses, list the items.

I just noticed that I have the same problem with my hat of disguise vs. my headband.

ACF, could Harin use his shapechange ability to disguise himself without losing his racial abiliies?  Also, are we using rules that allow items with alternative slots for higher prices?


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 1, 2007)

I edited the stats, I'm going to wait on CF's call on whether we can get other-slot items for a surcharge.  By the d20 SRD (taken from the core books) it's x1.5 for a different slot, x2 for taking up no slot at all.


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## Shayuri (Nov 1, 2007)

Mew...I'm torn...

I love the idea of a teefer beguiler...

But I'm thinking I might make a decent warrior out of a nymph blackguard. AC and saves would be just -stupidly- high.

I dunno. Hard for me to get a grip on this group. It seems kind of random. What holds us together? Why do we cooperate? What are our mutual goals and so on?


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## ethandrew (Nov 1, 2007)

There is a Vest of Resistance in the MIC, it can be used in conjunction with a Cloak of Charisma.

I thought about the same thing, Shayuri. I figure my Slaad will most likely be a mercenary for hire, but we should mutually come up with a joint background when we flesh out all our characters.


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## Scurry (Nov 1, 2007)

I was hoping ACF would weave some awesome contrivance out of backstory and GM fiat.

If not, we should probably begin thinking about that, heh.

On another note, I've been poking around with low/no racial hit die options, since my concept is class-level heavy, and dang is it hard to keep up with you people! Outsider/aberration hit dice, skills, & abilities plus racial caster/manifester levels is not easily caught up to with two extra class levels. 

If this is by design, ACF, that's cool, I'll play something with more innate ass-kick, like a Grell grapple-monkey, or one of the few sane beholders. If not, you might want to take another look at how you're balancing non-monstrous characters against monstrous ones. (I think you're doing a pretty good job of balancing the monsters against each other.)


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 1, 2007)

Everyone: 

Blackmail and mutual self interest is the only way to keep a party of mixed alignments, etc. together, a shared background would would help, but only within reason. I have that reasonably thought out, but the particulars may change as character concepts become more detailed 


Scurry:

I think you're right that the PCs and monsters aren't really equal (it's a learning experience, I guess)


Nac Mac Feegle:

Yes, you can get items on diferent slots for the price bump.


kinem:
You can look like annother arcanaloth using your alter self ability while keeping your resistances, etc, but you'd need the hat otherwise


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 1, 2007)

I think the main problem with balancing the monstrous PCs is that (for example) the Arcanoloth and the Ghaele have all the benefits of being a full spellcaster, but they have all good saves, full BAB, and a host of crazy abilities on top to boot.  Lord knows I'm doing the same thing, I just had to be an Aberration instead of an Outsider to get a guy that was a psion instead of a sorcerer or a cleric.

As for the items, rejiggering now.


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## Nephtys (Nov 1, 2007)

[sblock=Levin aka Seran aka Morick Selverdon, etc, Fallen Ghaele Cleric 3]

Alignment: CN/CE
HD 13d8+91 (159 hp)
Initiative: +3
Speed: 50ft, fly 150ft (perfect)
AC/touch/ff: 39/13/36 (+3 dex, +14 natural, +9 armour, +3 shield)

Bab/grapple/trip: 12/23/27
Attack: Xaostongue +24 melee (+26 vs LawO) (2d4+19/15-20 +2d6+2 vs LawO) or light ray +15 ranged touch (2d12)
Full Attack: Xaostongue +24/+19/+14 melee (+26/+21/+16 vs LawO) (2d4+19/15-20 +2d6+2 vs LawO) or 2 light rays +15 ranged touch (2d12)
Space/Reach: 5ft/5ft 

Special Attacks: Spell-like abilities, spells, turn undead 12/day.
Special Qualities: alternate form, damage reduction 10/evil and cold iron, darkvision 60 ft, immunity to electricity and petrification, low-light vision, protective aura, resistance to cold 10 and fire 10 spell resistance 28, tongues.
A ghaele’s natural weapons, as well as any weapons it wields, are treated as chaotic-aligned and good-aligned for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

Saves: Fort 22 (7+3+7+5), Ref 16 (7+1+3+5), Will 24(26) (7+3+9+5)(+2 vs enchantments)

Abilities:
Str:32/+11 (14+14+4)
Dex:16/+3 (10+2+4)
Con:24/+7 (14+4+6)
Int:16/+3 (10+6) 
Wis:28/+9 (16+6+6)
Cha:26/+8 (14+6+6)

Skills:11x13+5x3
Bluff +21 (+13+8)
Concentration +23 (+13+3+7)
Diplomacy +28 (+13+3+8+2+2)
Knowlege (The Planes) +19 (+13+3+3)
Knowlege (Local, Sigil) +19 (+13+3+3)
Knowlege (Arcana) +16 (+13+3)
Knowlege (Religion) +16 (+13+3)
Listen +22 (+13+9)
Sense Motive +25 (+13+3+9)
Spellcraft +18 (+13+3+2)
Spot +22 (+13+9)

Feats: 1 3 6 9 12

Power Attack
Divine Might
Combat Expertise
Improved Trip
Knock-Down

Languages (written): Celestial, Infernal, Abyssal, Draconic

Spell-Like Abilities
At will—aid, charm monster (DC 22), color spray (DC 19), comprehend languages, continual flame, cure light wounds (DC 19), dancing lights, detect evil, detect thoughts (DC 20), disguise self, dispel magic, hold monster (DC 23), greater invisibility (self only), major image (DC 22), see invisibility, greater teleport (self plus 50 pounds of objects only);
1/day—chain lightning (DC 24), prismatic spray (DC 25), wall of force. Caster level 12th. The save DCs are Charisma-based. 

Spells as 15th lvl cleric with the domains Liberation and Trickery
0:6.......
1: (5+3)+1:
2: (5+2)+1:
3: (5+2)+1:
4: (4+2)+1:
5: (4+2)+1:
6: (3+1)+1:
7: (2+1)+1:
8: (1+1)+1:

Domains: by deity or:
Air, Animal, Chaos, Good, or Plant  

Light Ray (Ex)
A ghaele in globe form can project light rays with a range of 300 feet. This attack overcomes damage reduction of any type. 

Alternate Form (Su)
A ghaele can shift between its humanoid and globe forms as a standard action. In humanoid form, it cannot fly or use its light rays, but it can use its gaze attack and spell-like abilities, make physical attacks, and cast spells. In globe form, it can fly, use its light rays, and use spell-like abilities, but it cannot cast spells or use its gaze attack. The globe form is incorporeal, and the ghaele has no Strength score while in that form. 

A ghaele remains in one form until it chooses to assume a new one. A change in form cannot be dispelled, nor does the ghaele revert to any particular form when killed. A true seeing spell or ability, however, reveals both forms simultaneously. 

Tongues (Su)
Ghaeles can speak with any creature that has a language, as though using a tongues spell (caster level 14th). This ability is always active. 


Equip: 260k
Belt +4 str, +6 Con 60000 (1lb)
Amulet +6 wis 36000
Cloak +6 cha 36000 (1lb)
Gloves +4 dex 16000
Vest of Resistance +5 (1lb)
Mithral Full Plate armour +1 of Heavy Fortification  10200+36000=46200gp (25lb) (AC+9)
Animated heavy Mithral Shield +1 10000gp (7,5lb) (AC +3)
Handy Haversack: 2000 (1lb)
Xaostongue
Silvered Falchion +1 (2d4+1 15-20x2, +2d6+2 vs lawful outsiders) (Keen, Lawful outsider Bane): 18500 gp (8lb) 

10300gp

Weight: 45,5 lb
[/sblock]

[sblock=appearance, background and personality]
Levin, in his flesh-form, appears in a beautiful mithral full-plate armour covered by a cloak of purest white Arborean silk. With large and expressive eyes, luminous with light and shadow, hair as black as the darkest night and a perfect masculine face chiseled out of mortals' belief in freedom, compassion and love he looks like the ideal Ghaele champion. A Fact that he makes good use of.

He saw the multiverse, and he fell. He saw the evil inherent in good, the law inherent in chaos, and he fell. He questioned what even entities of pure freedom are not allowed to question and he fell. Disillusioned with the slavery to the ideal of freedom that chained his fellow Eladrin and the authoritarian symbol of Morwel as the "Queen of freedom" he set out to free himself. For without freedom from ideals, freedom from morality, a cutter can never be truly free.
 Recklessly severing all his ties to the past he fall fast and he fell hard. Nothing was beyond him, no cruelty and no kindness, no act of stoisism or perversion. Though a part of him cried out in horror he resolved to gain freedom even from his conscience. For a time he became like a demon as he spiraled ever deeper into new and fascinating depths of cruelty until at last he was sated. Having purged himself of all his ties to Good he set out to free himself from Evil, not out of regret or revulsion but simply to once again assert his autonomy. But what is done cannot so easily be reversed and he had grown comfortable in his new mindset. Turning once again towards Good to free himself from Evil could be seen as a form of slavery to Change itself, an obsession of revolutions. Having systematically jaded himself he found that he no longer cared as much for bold and demonstrative acts of rebellion and begun to settle down into his new state of being. Though he occasionally looks back on what he was with a sense of wry amusement he is no longer nostalgic for what he has lost.

Factions, friends and enemies

Refusing to tie himself down to any single faction Levin has dabbled in many of them. The ones he are closest to philosophically and has the most allies in are the Sensates and the Fated, but has associated with the Doomguard, Athar, Bleakers, the Free League, the Revolutionary League and even briefly the Mercykillers. He has little but contempt for the Xaositects (regarding their antics as meaningless and counterproductive), the Dustmen (finding their attitude towards immortal outsiders irksome) and the Godsmen (considering them hopelessly naive) but has some sympathies for the Transcendent order and the Sign of One. He regards the Lawful factions with a somewhat detached condescending tolerance, tempered with a healthy respect for the Fraternity of Order.




[/sblock]


[sblock=Feats and spells for reference]

Trickery Domain
Granted Power
Add Bluff, Disguise, and Hide to your list of cleric class skills. 

Trickery Domain Spells
Disguise Self: Disguise own appearance. 
Invisibility: Subject invisible 1 min./level or until it attacks. 
Nondetection M: Hides subject from divination, scrying. 
Confusion: Subjects behave oddly for 1 round/level. 
False Vision M: Fools scrying with an illusion. 
Mislead: Turns you invisible and creates illusory double. 
Screen: Illusion hides area from vision, scrying. 
Polymorph Any Object: Changes any subject into anything else. 
Time Stop: You act freely for 1d4+1 rounds. 


Liberation Domain
Granted Power
The character gains a +2 morale bonus on all saving throws against enchantment spells or effects. 

Liberation Domain Spells
Remove fear 
Remove paralysis 
Remove curse 
Freedom of movement 
Break enchantment 
Greater dispel magic 
Refuge 
Mind blank 
Freedom 




Divine Might [Divine]
Prerequisites
Str 13, turn or rebuke undead ability, Power Attack. 
Benefit
As a free action, spend one of your turn or rebuke undead attempts to add your Charisma bonus to your weapon damage for 1 full round.


Improved Trip [General]
Prerequisites
Int 13, Combat Expertise. 
Benefit
You do not provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. You also gain a +4 bonus on your Strength check to trip your opponent. 
If you trip an opponent in melee combat, you immediately get a melee attack against that opponent as if you hadn’t used your attack for the trip attempt. 
Normal
Without this feat, you provoke an attack of opportunity when you attempt to trip an opponent while you are unarmed. 


Knock-Down [General]
Prerequisites
Base attack bonus +2, Improved Trip, Str 15. 
Benefit
Whenever you deal 10 or more points of damage to your opponent in melee, you make a trip attack as a free action against the same target. [/sblock]


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## ethandrew (Nov 1, 2007)

Nephtys, your spells/day look unhappy  

Out of curiosity, how does Arcane Spell Failure work with SLA's?


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 1, 2007)

Nephtys: You lose the gaze attack too

Nac Mac Feegle: Yeah, I suppouse something like level = CR -4 (as opposed to 2) is a better fit


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## Nephtys (Nov 1, 2007)

ethandrew said:
			
		

> Nephtys, your spells/day look unhappy
> 
> Out of curiosity, how does Arcane Spell Failure work with SLA's?




The thought of going trough the SRD picking all those spells could make anyone unhappy  (It's a lot of work)

SLAs don't require any somatic (or vocal or material) components, afaik, so I should be ok.


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## ethandrew (Nov 1, 2007)

I ponied up a lot of gold for some Bracers of Armor because my whole build is based on the SLA of Telekinesis, so if I could use a lot of that to use Heavy Armor, my build will be a lot more effective.

ACF, DM ruling?


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 1, 2007)

No acp for spell like abilities


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 1, 2007)

Nephtys, you need to pay the surcharge to move around where items go.  Specifically your boots of +6 con should cost you 54,000 instead of 36,000 (whoever it was who decided on item slots definitely disliked clerics )

I think giving an extra 2 levels to people using the standard races wouldn't unbalance things at all.  It'd mean that human-types would get access to 9th level spells, which can be a real balancing factor.


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## Nephtys (Nov 1, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Nephtys, you need to pay the surcharge to move around where items go.  Specifically your boots of +6 con should cost you 54,000 instead of 36,000 (whoever it was who decided on item slots definitely disliked clerics )




Guess I'd be better off merging the Con bonus with another item... The question is what to pay for it. Are Str and Con similar enough to give a discount when merged, or so dissimilar that there should be a surcharge? What about items that require skills, classes or alignments to use? Could I make my items work exlusively for CE Ghaele clerics, making them 40% or 70% cheaper?   





			
				SRD3 said:
			
		

> Magic Item Gold Piece Values
> Many factors must be considered when determining the price of new magic items. The easiest way to come up with a price is to match the new item to an item that is already priced that price as a guide. Otherwise, use the guidelines summarized on Table: Estimating Magic Item Gold Price Values.
> 
> Multiple Similar Abilities
> ...


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## Shayuri (Nov 1, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Nephtys, you need to pay the surcharge to move around where items go.  Specifically your boots of +6 con should cost you 54,000 instead of 36,000 (whoever it was who decided on item slots definitely disliked clerics )
> 
> I think giving an extra 2 levels to people using the standard races wouldn't unbalance things at all.  It'd mean that human-types would get access to 9th level spells, which can be a real balancing factor.




You talked me into it. Blackmail and Beguilers were made to go together. 

And starting with level 8 magic really really helps.

One question. I know Leadership was nixed as far as in-game cohorts and stuff...but what about Leadership if I keep my followers and cohort largely as plot devices, and they don't accompany us on adventures?


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 1, 2007)

Shayuri:

Leadership is okay if you don't bring your goons along


Nac Mac Feegle:

Yeah, 2 more levels to the non monster PCs might work (making my revised estimate of -4 a bit more sound, I guess)


Nephtys:
I would say an ability boost really shouldn't be similar to anything for determining cost. You can attatch it to whatever, but you'll pay for it like it's not asociated.


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## Nephtys (Nov 3, 2007)

So, when do we start?


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## WarShrike (Nov 3, 2007)

I hadn't considered adding a surcharge fee to items that i made myself. Do i need to?

WarShrike


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## The Planewalker (Nov 3, 2007)

Hi everyone, i realize recruiting is closed, but could I be 'waitlisted' (in case you guys realize you need a new player, or someone drops out). I'm a planescape fanatic.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 3, 2007)

Everyone: 
I didn't realize we were ready. Doh! I'll have the IC thread and RG up tonight.


War Shrike: 
I don't understand the question.


The Planewalker: 
Conseder yourself alternated.


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## Shayuri (Nov 4, 2007)

For perusal and fine tuning, here is the rough draft of Silhouette, AKA Whisper-From-Shadows, AKA any number of other things... Physically weaker than the other PC's...though not as useless in melee as most mages, which might lead to some unpleasant surprises if we're attacked...but a real powerhouse magically. Caster level 17 and DC's stretching up into the low 30's... AC of 30 (unbuffed!). And she comes complete with a spy network and a cohort to manage it.

I did draw rather heavily on Magic Item Compendium, so if there's any questions about items and what they do, I'll gladly elaborate. Right now the final item list is somewhat in flux. Any suggestions people have will be gratefully considered.

Notes: 
Her spell slots are not yet adjusted for ability scores.

Cohort and followers not yet detailed.

One level of Unseen Seer was taken at 6th level, knocking all the Advanced Learning class features up a caster level. This is why I was able to take 4rth, 6th, and 8th level spells when if I was a pure Beguiler, I would have been forced to take spells of one level lower each.

The Circlet of Persuasion is "built into" the headband of intelligence, for a +50% surcharge to its cost.

[sblock=Silhouette]Name: Silhouette
Race: Tiefling
Class/Level: Beguiler 15 / Unseen Seer 2
Gender: Female
Exp: 94120/105000

Desc: Silhouette's true appearance is that of a shapely and beautiful female humanoid, with red irised eyes and skin that is truly black in color; the shade of shadows at midnight. She enjoys finery and luxury, and tends to dress in provacative clothes of high quality materials, or at least seem to. Very little in her day to day appearance is exactly as it seems however. Her skill in illusion magic makes her adept at adopting roles and altering her looks to become whoever and whatever she wishes at any given moment.

Strength (STR) 8 (0)
Dexterity (DEX) 20 (4)
Constitution (CON) 18 (4)
Intelligence (INT) 28 (10)
Wisdom (WIS) 12 (4)
Charisma (CHA) 14 (10)

Alignment: Neutral evil
AC: 30 (10 +5 Dex +10 armor +5 deflection)
Hit Points: 135
Movement: 30' ground

Init: +5 (+10 w/Murmur)
Base Attack Bonus: +8/+3
Melee Attack: +7
Ranged Attack: +13
Fort: +14
Reflex: +15
Will: +19

Race Abilities
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60 ft
Resistance to electricity 5, cold 5, and fire 5
Darkness SLA, 1/day
Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.

Class Abilities:
Armored Mage
Trapfinding
Cloaked Casting: +2 DC, +2 vs SR
Advanced Learning
- 3rd: Magic Aura
- 7th: Phantasmal Killer
- 11th: Greater Heroism
- 15th: Greater Shadow Evocation
Surprise Casting: Move Action
Silent Spell
Still Spell

Danage Bonus +1d6 (works with sneak damage from Mantle)
Advanced Learning (Divination): Greater Scrying

Skills: 212
Bluff +27 (20 ranks + 2 Cha + 2 race +3 item)
Concentration +20 (16 ranks + 4 Con)
Diplomacy +24 (15 ranks + 2 Cha + 4 synergy +3 item)
Disguise +30 (13 ranks + 2 Cha + 10 magic +3 item +2 synergy)
Forgery +20 (11 ranks + 9 Int)
Gather Information +20 (13 ranks + 2 Cha + 3 item + 2 synergy)
Knowledge: Arcana +16 (7 ranks + 9 Int)
Knowledge: Local +16 (7 ranks + 9 Int)
Knowledge: Planes +16 (7 ranks + 9 Int)
Hide +32 (20 ranks + 5 Dex + 2 race + 5 item)
Move Silently +30 (20 ranks + 5 Dex + 5 item)
Sense Motive +21 (20 ranks + 1 Wis)
Spot +15 (14 ranks + 1 Wis)
Listen +15 (14 ranks + 1 Wis)
Use Magic Device +20 (15 ranks + 2 Cha + 3 item)

Feats
1 Spell Focus: Divination
3 Weapon Finesse
6 Spell Focus: Illusion
9 Spell Focus: Enchantment
12 Heighten Spell
15 Leadership

Languages - Common, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic, ?

Spells (Base DC: 19, 20 illusion, Divination, 22 enchantment)

0 - 6/6, 1 - 6/6, 2 - 6/6, 3 - 6/6, 4 - 6/6, 5 - 6/6, 6 - 6/6, 7 - 5/5, 8 - 3/3

0 - Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Message, Open/Close, Read Magic
1 - Charm Person, Color Spray, Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self,
Expeditious Retreat, Hypnotism, Mage Armor, Obscuring Mist, Rouse, Silent Image, Sleep,
Undetectable Alignment, Whelm
2 - Blinding Color Surge, Blur, Daze Monster, Detect Thoughts, Fog Cloud, Glitterdust,
Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Knock, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Misdirection, See Invisible,Silence, Spider Climb, Stay the Hand, Touch of Idiocy, Vertigo, Whelming Burst
3 - Arcane Sight, Clairvoyance/Clairaudence, Crown of Veils, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Glibness, Halt, Haste, Hesitate, Hold Person, Inevitable Defeat, Invisibility Sphere, Legion Of Sentinels, Major Image, Nondetection, Slow, Suggestion, Vertigo Field, Zone of Silence
4 - Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Locate Creature, Mass Whelm, Phantom Battle, Rainbow Pattern, Solid Fog
5 - Break Enchantment, Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Friend to Foe, Hold Monster, Incite Riot, Mind Fog, Telepathic Bond, Seeming, Sending, Swift Etherealness
6 - Greater Dispel, Mass Suggestion, Mislead, Overwhelm, Repulsion, Shadow Walk, True Seeing, Veil
7 - Ethereal Jaunt, Greater Arcane Sight, Mass Hold Person, Mass Invisibility, Phase Door, Power Word: Blind, Project Image, Spell Turning
8 - Demand, Discern Location, Mind Blank, Moment of Prescience, Power Word: Stun, Scintillating Pattern, Screen

Money - 10gp

Weapons -
Murmur, +1 morphing rapier of warning, +14 to hit, 1d6 dmg, 18320gp
- Augment Crystal: Lesser Return, 1000
- Augment Crystal: Lesser Fiendslaying, 3000

Armour -
Blackmail - Mithril Breastplate +5, +10, 69900, Max Dex +6, ACP 0, 15lbs
- Nimbleness +1, Maxdex +6, ACP 0
- Death Ward +1
- Blueshine, 1500
- Called, 2000
- Glamered, 2700
- Augment Crystal: Greater Adapation, 3000

Gear -
2 scroll cases, 2gp, 1lb
2 belt pouches, 2gp, 1lb
1 Smokestick

In pouch 1
Spell foci, (various, no effective cost)

In pouch 2
Money purse

Magic -
Talisman of Undying Fortitude, 8000
Tome of Worldly Knowledge, 1500
Gwaron's Boots, 6000
Belt of the Wide Earth, 8000
Veil of Allure, 14000
Ring of Universal Energy Protection 20, 120000
Ring of Protection +5, 50000
Vest of Resistance +5, 25000
Headband of Intellect +6, 36000
-- Circlet of Persuasion, 6750
Amulet of Health +6, 36000
Gloves of Dexterity +6, 36000
Mantle of the Predator, 8000[/sblock]


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## Nephtys (Nov 4, 2007)

I still have some background to iron out, but I'm pretty much ready.


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## WarShrike (Nov 4, 2007)

I just meant that i had made magical items myself but switched slots, such as making a Amulet of health, but as a belt instead. I hadn't calculated a 50% surchgarge fee. I was asking, since i made it myself, do i need to add a surcharge fee.

As for the Magic Item Compendium items i wanted, listing them here:

*Warlock's Scepter*: This +1 light mace confers a +1 profane bonus on your ranged attack rolls while you hold it. This is a continuous effect and requires no activation. Furthermore, a warlock's scepter has 5 charges, which are renewed each day at dawn. Spending 1 or more charges improves the damage of the next eldritch blast you make in that round.
1 charge +1d6 damage
3 charges +2d6 damage
5 charges +4d6 damage
After these charges have been expended, the rod remains a +1 light mace, but it no longer provides a bonus on ranged touch attack rolls until its charges are restored.
Slot: Held
Cost: 8000gp

*Chasuble of Fell Power, Greater*: As a chasuble of fell power, except the greater chasubel adds an extra 2d6 points of damage to your eldritch blast or damaging spells you cast that have the chaotic descriptor.
Slot: Throat
Cost: 18,000gp

A regular chasubel adds 1d6

WarShrike


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## Scurry (Nov 4, 2007)

*Arsulen the Enlightened, The Snake With A Thousand Voices, Knower of the Word, etc, etc, Unto A Hundred Thousand Exultations.*
Notes:
Still not done.
Right now with spell selection I'm trying to set him up as a hybrid melee/debuff guy (melee from lots of buffs, and a bit of monk for seasoning); since that sounds like what the party could use.


[sblock]
	
	



```
Male Human Mnk2/Sor4/UrP2/MyT8/Fts2
Alignment: NE  Character Level: 18

Abilities
      Total   Base Item Misc 
Str: 10  (+0)   8   +2  +xx
Dex: 16  (+3)  12   +4  +xx
Con: 16  (+3)  12   +4  +xx
Int: 12  (+1)  12       +xx
Wis: 26  (+8)  16   +6  +4 level, 
Cha: 22  (+6)  16   +6  +xx

AC: 10+8(monk)+3(dex)+6(g.mage armor)+1(parrying)+2(rspower)=30
[+4(shield)+5(shield of faith)]=39

Bab: 8 (18 with divine power)


Speed:30ft

Saves:
      total base ability item 
Fort:  +17   +6   +3      +5(vest) +3(parrying runestaff of power)
Ref :  +17   +6   +3      +5(vest) +3(parrying runestaff of power)
Will:  +32  +16   +8      +5(vest) +3(parrying runestaff of power)

Feats:

Class Features and Stuff:
MONK
AC Bonus
Flurry of Blows
Bonus Feat (Stunning Fist)
Unarmed Strike
Bonus Feat (Deflect Arrows)
Evasion
SORCERER
Metamagic Specialist
Sorcerer Spellcasting: CL 18th
Spells/day:6/8/8/7/7/6/3
Spells known:
0 9: arcane mark, prestidigitation, resistance, light, message, mage hand, detect poison, detect magic, read magic
1 5: Shield, true strike, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, expeditious retreat
2 5: create magic tattoo(SpC)*, belker claws(PlanarH), curious courier(PSCS), see invisibility, mirror image 
3 4: Greater Mage Armor(CAr), Haste, Analyze Portal(PlanarH), Spell Vulnerability(PlanarH)
4 4: Polymorph, Greater Invisibility, Enervate, Orb of Force(CAr)
5 3: Greater Blink(CAr), Planar Tolerance(PlanarH), Duelward(CAr)
6 2: Greater Heroism, Contingency
7 1: Spell Turning

Scrolls: Dispel Magic

UR-PRIEST
FATESPINNER

Magic Items:
```
[/sblock]

Stuff from books ACF doesn't have; feel free to tell me I can't have it. Somehow, I'll survive. :
[sblock]MIC:
Parrying: +2 enhancement, gives +1 insight to AC and saves.
Runestaff of power: Works like a staff of power, but:
 - Each spell can be cast only once a day
 - Instead of expending charges, the user expends a spell slot of equal level
 - Spell is cast exactly as if the user cast it (the ray of enfeeblement isn't heightened)

Spell Compendium:
Create Magic Tattoo: Craft(calligraphy/drawing/painting/tattoo/etc) check of varying DC, 100gp per check, makes an awesome tattoo that lasts 24h, no more than 3 on a person at once. (As an aside, I <3 the potential to be an EVIL TATTOO ARTIST)
Selected tattoos (read: The ones I'd use)
DC 15: +2 competence to attack rolls
DC 20: +1 enhancement to one ability
DC 20: +1 spellcaster level[/sblock]


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 4, 2007)

Scurry:

Looks good so far, but I don't know a bunch of those spells or items. Please look at the available books (you probably don't want to post all that stuff, and niether does WOTC)


Shayuri:
I don't have the beguiler, a list of class features at each level would help


WarShrike:
Yes, you still pay the surcharge. both of the items you wanted were in complete arcane first, so I have them already.


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## Shayuri (Nov 4, 2007)

It's at Crystal Keep. 

http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/index.php

In the Base Classes pdf.


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## Nephtys (Nov 4, 2007)

Character completed (see above)


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## Scurry (Nov 4, 2007)

I'll... hm. Some of those items and spells are really neat. 

I'lll see what I can do about paring the nonstandard ones to a minimum? (And that's not a finalized spell list by any means, it's just what happens when I crawl through a copy of the Spell Compendium going "Ooh, a shiny! Ooh, a shiny!")


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## WarShrike (Nov 6, 2007)

I forgot to list 1 item:

*Anklet of Translocation*: An Anklet of Translocation allows you to make short dimensional hops. When it is activated, you can instantly teleport (with no chance of error) up to 10 feet. The new space must be within line of sight and line of effect. You can't use the anklet to move into a space occupied by annother creature, nor can you teleport into a solid object; if you attempt to do so, the anklet's activation is wasted. You can bring along objects weighing up to your maximum load, but you can't bring annother creature with you. An Anklet of Translocation functions 2 times per day.

Slot: Feet
Activation: Swift (command)
Cost: 1400 gp

WarShrike


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## Shayuri (Nov 7, 2007)

Making some adjustments to Silhouette. Mostly just tightening up the inventory.


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## kinem (Nov 7, 2007)

I hope we can start soon.  I think we're still waiting for Scurry, and ACF, and tweaking ...

I'm torn on some tweaks too, but probably won't know for sure until I post it in the RG, so more time would not help.  I was thinking of preparing to go archmage at next level, but with all the feats out there that now that can give similar benefits, I don't know if it's worth it.  I'm trying to decide if I should become a polymorph specialist, or get a bit blastier; and whether to go with pearls of power, a lesser rod of quicken, or a +1 caster level ioun stone ...


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## ethandrew (Nov 7, 2007)

I haven't posted my character yet, but it'll be pretty basic, the magic items are standard DMG ones, stat-boosting, so there's not much issue there. I just haven't had time to type it out yet in an EN-World compatible format.

But whenever I get the "We're ready to go", I'll light a fire under myself and get him in.

Have we decided what we might want to do for a joined background? Are we part of a Guild in Sigil? Comrades by circumstance? Swept into a whirlwind of adventure by chance ala same place same time?


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 7, 2007)

Just a note on common background, don't go overboard. If you can't think of a reason, don't push common sense (too far).


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## Shayuri (Nov 8, 2007)

Actually, I take it back. Inventory stays as is. 

I did tweak skills a little.

How do you want to handle Cohort/Followers? Do you want me to do up their stats, or would you prefer to, with me just specifying what race/class they are and what they do?

Here's the sheet again so you don't have to go looking:

[sblock=Silhouette]Name: Silhouette
Race: Tiefling
Class/Level: Beguiler 15 / Unseen Seer 2
Gender: Female
Exp: 

Desc: Silhouette's true appearance is that of a shapely and beautiful female humanoid, with red irised eyes and skin that is truly black in color; the shade of shadows at midnight. She enjoys finery and luxury, and tends to dress in provacative clothes of high quality materials, or at least seem to. Very little in her day to day appearance is exactly as it seems however. Her skill in illusion magic makes her adept at adopting roles and altering her looks to become whoever and whatever she wishes at any given moment. Under her illusions, she wears a veil or mask, so even those who see through her arts can still not see her true face.

Strength (STR) 8 (0)
Dexterity (DEX) 20 (4)
Constitution (CON) 18 (4)
Intelligence (INT) 28 (10)
Wisdom (WIS) 12 (4)
Charisma (CHA) 14 (10)

Alignment: Neutral evil
AC: 30 (10 +5 Dex +10 armor +5 deflection)
Hit Points: 135
Movement: 30' ground

Init: +5 (+10 w/Murmur)
Base Attack Bonus: +8/+3
Melee Attack: +7
Ranged Attack: +13
Fort: +14
Reflex: +15
Will: +19

Race Abilities
+2 Dex, +2 Int, -2 Cha
Darkvision 60 ft
Resistance to electricity 5, cold 5, and fire 5
Darkness SLA, 1/day
Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.

Class Abilities:
Armored Mage
Trapfinding
Cloaked Casting: +2 DC, +2 vs SR
Advanced Learning
- 3rd: Magic Aura
- 7th: Phantasmal Killer
- 11th: Greater Heroism
- 15th: Greater Shadow Evocation
Surprise Casting: Move Action
Silent Spell
Still Spell

Danage Bonus +1d6 (works with sneak damage from Mantle)
Advanced Learning (Divination): Greater Scrying

Skills: 212
Bluff +27 (20 ranks + 2 Cha + 2 race +3 item)
Concentration +20 (16 ranks + 4 Con)
Diplomacy +24 (15 ranks + 2 Cha + 4 synergy +3 item)
Disguise +30 (13 ranks + 2 Cha + 10 magic +3 item +2 synergy)
Forgery +20 (11 ranks + 9 Int)
Gather Information +20 (13 ranks + 2 Cha + 3 item + 2 synergy)
Knowledge: Arcana +15 (6 ranks + 9 Int)
Knowledge: Factions/Guilds +14 (5 ranks + 9 Int)
Knowledge: Local +15 (6 ranks + 9 Int)
Knowledge: Planes +15 (6 ranks + 9 Int)
Hide +30 (18 ranks + 5 Dex + 2 race + 5 item)
Move Silently +30 (20 ranks + 5 Dex + 5 item)
Sense Motive +21 (20 ranks + 1 Wis)
Spellcraft +12 (1 rank + 9 Int + 2 synergy)
Spot +15 (14 ranks + 1 Wis)
Listen +15 (14 ranks + 1 Wis)
Use Magic Device +19 (14 ranks + 2 Cha + 3 item)

Feats
1 Spell Focus: Divination
3 Weapon Finesse
6 Spell Focus: Illusion
9 Spell Focus: Enchantment
12 Heighten Spell
15 Leadership

Languages - Common, Infernal, Abyssal, Celestial, Draconic, Auran

Spells (Base DC: 19, 20 illusion, Divination, 22 enchantment)

0 - 6/6, 1 - 9/9, 2 - 8/8, 3 - 8/8, 4 - 8/8, 5 - 8/8, 6 - 7/7, 7 - 6/6, 8 - 4/4

0 - Dancing Lights, Daze, Detect Magic, Ghost Sound, Message, Open/Close, Read Magic
1 - Charm Person, Color Spray, Comprehend Languages, Detect Secret Doors, Disguise Self,
Expeditious Retreat, Hypnotism, Mage Armor, Obscuring Mist, Rouse, Silent Image, Sleep,
Undetectable Alignment, Whelm
2 - Blinding Color Surge, Blur, Daze Monster, Detect Thoughts, Fog Cloud, Glitterdust,
Hypnotic Pattern, Invisibility, Knock, Minor Image, Mirror Image, Misdirection, See Invisible,Silence, Spider Climb, Stay the Hand, Touch of Idiocy, Vertigo, Whelming Burst
3 - Arcane Sight, Clairvoyance/Clairaudence, Crown of Veils, Deep Slumber, Dispel Magic, Displacement, Glibness, Halt, Haste, Hesitate, Hold Person, Inevitable Defeat, Invisibility Sphere, Legion Of  Sentinels, Major Image, Nondetection, Slow, Suggestion, Vertigo Field, Zone of Silence
4 - Charm Monster, Confusion, Crushing Despair, Freedom of Movement, Greater Invisibility, Greater Mirror Image, Locate Creature, Mass Whelm, Phantom Battle, Rainbow Pattern, Solid Fog
5 - Break Enchantment, Dominate Person, Feeblemind, Friend to Foe, Hold Monster, Incite Riot, Mind Fog, Telepathic Bond, Seeming, Sending, Swift Etherealness
6 - Greater Dispel, Mass Suggestion, Mislead, Overwhelm, Repulsion, Shadow Walk, True Seeing, Veil
7 - Ethereal Jaunt, Greater Arcane Sight, Mass Hold Person, Mass Invisibility, Phase Door, Power Word: Blind, Project Image, Spell Turning
8 - Demand, Discern Location, Mind Blank, Moment of Prescience, Power Word: Stun, Scintillating 

Pattern, Screen

Money - 10gp

Weapons -
Murmur, +1 morphing rapier of warning, +14 to hit, 1d6 dmg, 18320gp
- Augment Crystal: Lesser Return, 1000
- Augment Crystal: Lesser Fiendslaying, 3000

Armour -
Blackmail - Mithril Breastplate +5, +10, 62400, Max Dex +6, ACP 0, 15lbs
- Nimbleness +1, Maxdex +6, ACP 0
- Death Ward +1
- Blueshine, 1500
- Called, 2000
- Glamered, 2700
- Augment Crystal: Greater Adapation, 3000

Gear -
2 scroll cases, 2gp, 1lb
2 belt pouches, 2gp, 1lb
1 Smokestick

In pouch 1
Spell foci, (various, no effective cost)

In pouch 2
Money purse

Magic -
Talisman of Undying Fortitude, 8000
Tome of Worldly Knowledge, 1500
Gwaron's Boots, 6000
Belt of the Wide Earth, 8000
Veil of Allure, 14000
Ring of Universal Energy Protection 20, 120000
Ring of Protection +5, 50000
Vest of Resistance +5, 25000
Headband of Intellect +6, 36000
-- Circlet of Persuasion, 6750
Amulet of Health +6, 36000
Gloves of Dexterity +6, 36000
Mantle of the Predator, 8000[/sblock]

Then a bit of background:

[sblock=Backstory]Silhouette is an information-broker in Sigil...one of the bashers who makes it a point to learn whatever's worth knowing (which is most things) then selling it back to berks too clueless to piece it together for themselves. She specializes though in uncovering secrets. More than one blood has gone to Sil and hired her to get dirt on someone, or proof of something, or similar. Between her and her information network, there isn't much of note that goes on in the Cage that she can't find out about. She doesn't usually personally handle smaller, easier cases anymore...leaving those to her protege and lieutenants. These days Silhouette is more interested in deeper darks...the whys and wherefores that offer -real- power...and real risks. Faction heads, greater demons and devils, maybe even Powers themselves. In the meantime, she's in the process of rebuilding some of her personal fortune after recently going on something of a spending spree. Those in the know suspect she's up to something big...but they don't know the half of it.[/sblock]


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## kinem (Nov 8, 2007)

ACF, so when do we start?  Maybe you should at least post a RG.  It would be a lot easier to keep track of, especially as we try to build a common background.  You said you had an idea - what is it?

I suggest that we have all (or mostly) worked together in the past.  This is mainly because it would take a long time to build up any kind of (provisional) trust among these characters.

Harin (arcanaloth) certainly might approach Sil seeking to partner in on a possible financial opportunity in exchange for his services.


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## Scurry (Nov 8, 2007)

A loose network of at least "I know a guy who worked with a guy" relationships amongst the PCs would probably be a good idea.

I'll finish the sheet... by the end of the weekend, I promise. School was being a bear for a while, but I'll have plenty of free time to waste in a few days.


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## Scurry (Nov 12, 2007)

Hey, remember how I was all like, "I have more free time!"

...yeah, ahaha. Not enough to make a high-level double-caster. I'll try to finish soon, but if you guys just wanna start up without me, I totally understand. Don't let my lameness hold you back.


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## Shayuri (Nov 13, 2007)

Need any help, Scurry?

I'm always up for some number crunchin'...

Crazy, are we just waiting on him, or is there anything else?


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## WarShrike (Nov 13, 2007)

Finally, heres my character.

[SBLOCK=Varan Tor]
*Varan Tor*
Level 13 Warlock
Level 3 Hellfire Warlock (PrC)
Race: Zenythri
Gender: Male
Alignment: NE

Unmodified Stats: 28 pt build
Str: 10 (2 pts)
Dex: 16 (10 pts)
Con: 14 (6 pts)
Int: 12 (4 pts)
Wis: 8 (0 pts)
Cha: 14 (6 pts)

Modified Stats:
Str: 12 (+2 Racial)
Dex: 28 (+2 Racial, +4 levels, +6 Item)
Con: 20 (+6 Item)
Int: 12
Wis: 10 (+2 Racial)
Cha: 18 (-2 Racial, +6 Item)

Atributes:
BAB: +9/+4
Init: +13
Listen/Spot: 
Speed: 30 Feet
HPs: 146
AC: 31
Saves: F=15, R=19, W=16

Skills:
Concentration:................14 Ranks, +5 Con, 19 Total
Intimidate:......................6 Ranks, +4 Cha, 10 Total
Knowledge (the planes):....12 Ranks, +1 Int, 13 Total
Spellcraft:......................6 Ranks, +1 Int, 7 Total
Use Magical Device:........19 Ranks, +4 Cha, 23 Total

Class Granted Abilities and Feats:
Eldritch Blast 7d6
Hellfire Blast +6d6
Detect Magic At Will
DR 3/Cold Iron
Decieve item - Take 10 on UMD checks anytime
Fiendish Resilience 2 - fast healing 2 for 2 minutes, 1/day
Energy Resistance - Fire: 15, Cold: 5
Imbue Item
Imbue Hellfire
Hellfire Shield

Character Feats:
Improved Initiative
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Quicken Spell-like Ability
Craft Wonderous Item
Craft Wand
Extra Invocation: Hungry Darkness
Extra Invocation: Walk Unseen

Character Flaws:
Non Combatant: -2 To Hit Melee
Vulnerable: -1 AC

Invocations:
Least:
-Eldritch Spear
-Devil's Sight
-See the Unseen
Lesser:
-Eldritch Chain
-Brimstone Blast
-Fell Flight
-Hungry Darkness
-Walk Unseen
Greater:
-Eldritch Cone
-Chilling Tentacles
-Wall of Perilous Flame
Dark:
-Word of Changing

Equipment:
Belt of Health: +6 Con...................Cost: Made: 27,000 gp, 2160 xp
Brooch of Charisma: +6 Cha............Cost: 54,000 gp
Gloves of Dexterity: +6 Dex............Cost: Made: 18,000 gp, 1280 xp
Bracers of AC 8............................Cost: Made: 32,000 gp, 2560 xp
Cloak of Resistance: +5.................Cost: Made: 12,500 gp, 1000 xp
Ring of Evasion............................Cost: 25,000 gp
Ring of Protection: +5...................Cost: 50,000 gp
Warlock's Scepter........................Cost: 8,305 gp
Greater Chasubel of Fell Power.......Cost: Made: 9,000 gp, 720 xp
Anklet of Translocation.................Cost: 1,400 gp
Wand of Lesser Restoration...........Cost: 4,500 gp
Wand of Non-Detection................Cost: 11,250 gp
Scroll of Heal x4..........................Cost: 6,600 gp

Total Cost: 259,555 gp, 7720 xp
[/SBLOCK]

[SBLOCK=Background]
Varan Tor is a member of The Fated, although he would deny it if ever asked. He has some ties to the Harmonium as well, but they are false, for he uses his knowledge and light camaraderie with the Harmonium's agents to sneak black market magical items and artifacts into the city undetected, for use by his bretheren. Especially the sort of item that prevents detection from the Harmonium's seers, allowing The Fated to act without reprisals. He also has ties to the Dustmen, for he has provided them with a steady source of corpses (Harmonium agents who got in his way) although the Dustmen know him under a different name (Torras) and know nothing of him being a Fated. His many item runs have earned him a small fortune, that he has meticulously spent on equipment. Furthering his power will only make him better at his task, therefore earning him more coin, therefore aquiring himself more gear, thus furthering his power. It's a circle he's quite happy with. Power is his God. When creating items with word activation, the word is always 'Power', although most often in an obscure language so as not to be so obvious.
[/SBLOCK]


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## Scurry (Nov 13, 2007)

Not so much number crunching as weighing the pros and cons of Divine Persistent cheese; whether or not I should go for the duelward/Greater Dispel combo, how not to get absolutely wrecked by anyone with an antimagic field, and so forth. Strategy stuff.

I totally appreciate the offer of help, though, and if you have input on the above issues, please, chatter away. 

I'll finish the guy as speedily as I can, but I can't provide an upper bound on the time any more. So, again, don't let me hold you guys back and I totally understand if ACF decides to boot me from the game.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 14, 2007)

Don't worry. Work as quickly as you can. Tests, projects and other obnoxious school stuff is getting in my way of makeing the really long posts that are nescesary to start this game. I'll definitely have defeated the nonsense I have by friday or saturday, so if everyone was done by then, that'd be great.


WarShrike: 

I don't know all of the invocations on your list like wall of perilous flame.


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## Zurai (Nov 14, 2007)

A Crazy Fool said:
			
		

> WarShrike:
> 
> I don't know all of the invocations on your list like wall of perilous flame.




Those are all Complete Arcane invocations. _Wall of Perilous Flame_, in particular, is _Wall of Fire_ at will with half the damage untyped and anything that is reduced to 0 hp is destroyed (as _Destruction_) one round after hitting 0.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 14, 2007)

Oops


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## Shayuri (Nov 14, 2007)

Fair nuff...but I have questions about how you want to handle cohort/followers.

Specifically, do you want me to designate classes/stats/positions/etc within reason, or would you rather do that? Any limits or restrictions you wish to impose?


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 14, 2007)

You can choose classes for the cohort (background and behaivior is good too) and give me general suggestions regarding the classes of the followers. Besides this, no real restrictions save that I'll be control the cohorts and followers (so background and personality is important) since they aren't going to be following you.


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## Shayuri (Nov 16, 2007)

This write up is assuming a Leadership score of 20, for 18 ECL and +2 charisma bonus. If you're going by hit dice instead of ECL, or if any bonuses/penalties apply, let me know and I'll make the necessary adjustments.

Cohort: Dirge - 6th bard / 8th level human assassin

Dirge would be euphemistically called an 'asset' by modern intelligence agencies. She plays taverns and inns, gathering information and passing on what seems significant to Silhouette. On occasion Silhouette will have her follow up on a lead that she doesn't have time for, but requires skills in excess of what her other followers are capable of. Dirge is also a very capable and ruthless assassin; a calling which Silhouette asks her to fulfill infrequently...but sometimes. She represents one of the three major information "feeds" available to Silhouette, the other two being her network of eyes and ears (1st level followers) and her investigative company. Dirge also has authority over the company, though only as an extension of Sil. The network is kept completely separate, and Sil actually takes some pains to ensure that Dirge won't learn of them or how to recognize them.

Followers:
1st level - 50
2nd level - 5
3rd level - 3
4rth level - 2
5th level - 1

Follower breakdown:

40 of the 50 1st level followers are various NPC classes, and are in fact relatively ordinary people all around the Cage who keep their eyes and ears open for interesting tidbits of overheard conversations, drunken or afterglow confessions, who's meeting who, and so on...and report these to Silhouette via anonymous drops, or to anyone who gives them the appropriate passphrase. They are serving wenches, bartenders, whores, maids and butlers, smiths, touts, and people gathering deaders for the Dustmen. 

The other 10 are functionaries for Devil's Eye Investigative, doing the bureaucratic work and such necessary to run the business. Mostly experts and some commoners for more brutish labor.

The 2nd level followers are 'junior investigators' for Devil's Eye. They do the boring stuff like canvass neighborhoods with likenesses, do screening interviews and so on. Social skill experts and rogues.

The 3rd level followers are 'senior investigators' for Devil's Eye. They do somewhat more interesting work; stakeouts, records searches, interviews with screened witnesses/sources, and other detective work. Two rogues and a wizard that helps with arcane matters.

The two 4rth level followers are "special investigators," at Devil's Eye, and are assigned tasks by Dirge or Silhouette. The lower level investigators, while they can be co-opted if needed, typically do the day to day investigative work that keep the business running. One is a warlock, the other is a rogue.

The 5th level follower is a beguiler, and is the public manager of Devil's Eye. He reports directly to Silhouette, though Dirge can and does give him orders as well. He generally devotes himself to running the business, though lends his aid when and where needed for a given mission. He spends a lot of time coordinating and dealing with the lower level employees.

-- Still to come: Names and some personality/motivation details for each of the 'major' followers!--


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## Nephtys (Nov 17, 2007)

That's pretty clever, Shay. Wish I had thought of that.


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## Shayuri (Nov 19, 2007)

Not sure how you want stats/money for cohorts and followers to be determined...


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 19, 2007)

As NPCs of the apropriate level. It won't matter too much, you probably only need to add important or signature items. 

I'm going to start the RG when I think of a name for the campaign (this has been a bit of a problem)


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## Shayuri (Nov 19, 2007)

Well, they're important insofar as they help determine what the final skill bonuses are, which can come up in play...and save bonuses, HP, and so on...

I'm less concerned about the followers stats than I am about the cohort's. 

I figure "named" followers can use the elite array from DMG. Cohort would either use the elite array, or the same point buy as PC's.

NPC wealth level works...good deal.

Thanks!


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 19, 2007)

Dirge and the 5th level follower can use 32 point buy. Everyone other named follower has the elite array.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 22, 2007)

I think the way I'll handle this delay thing will be to start the game for those characters who have a full background and then introduce everyone else as apropriate. Expect an RG and IC sometime after thanksgiving.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 25, 2007)

Sorry, expect something tuesday. My life is a mess right now (hate school). Can I just have confirmation of who's ready?


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## Nephtys (Nov 26, 2007)

Ready.


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## Shayuri (Nov 26, 2007)

Basically ready! Had an unexpected slowdown over Thanksgiving but I'm back now!


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## kinem (Nov 26, 2007)

Ready Cap'n!


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 26, 2007)

Ready, I think.


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## WarShrike (Nov 26, 2007)

The holiday beast lays conquered. Story added, and ready to rock, boss.   

WarShrike

***Edit: Also changed a feat, removed Forge Ring (and thus changed the ring i made to just bought, and made other Wonderous Items instead) and added Extra Invocation: Hungry Darkness.***


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## ethandrew (Nov 26, 2007)

I don't think I ever posted my character sheet. I need to rework a little of the equipment, as evident by the last sentence in my spoiler block, and I need a suitable name, but otherwise I'm ready.

[sblock=Slaadi-Man]

Male Blue Slaad Master of the Unseen Hand 5 | Fighter 1
Alignment: CN
Size: Large

Abilities: 
STR - 34 (6 Points)
DEX - 22 (6 Points)
CON - 24 (2 Points)
INT - 10 (6 Points)
WIS - 8 (4 Points)
CHA - 22 (10 Points)

HP: 162 
Speed: 30ft
Initiative: +6
Reach: 10ft

AC: 39 (10 + 10 Armor + 6 Dex + 5 Deflection Bonus + 9 Natural Armor – 1 Size)

Saves:
Fort: 21
Reflex: 18
Will: 14

BAB/Ranged/Grapple: +25/+19/+40

Weapons:
Claws +30/+30/+30/+30 2d6+12 x2
Bite +28 2d8+6 plus disease x2

Class Abilities:
-Improved Caster Level
-Versatile Telekinesis: can switch between three types
-Telekinetic Wielder: can wield weapons with the spell
-Sustained Concentration: move action for sustained force
-Full Attack Telekinesis: can use multiple attacks each round with combat maneuver
-Improved Violent Thrust: spell does not end with violent thrust
-Telekinetic Flight: can fly using sustained force
-Fling Skyward: can fling creature upward 130', Will Save and SR apply, ends spell

Racial Abilities:
-Darkvision 60ft
-Fast Healing 5
-Immunity to Sonic
-Resistance 5: Fire, Acid, Cold, Electricity
-Spell-like Abilities:
*At Will: Hold Person (DC 19), Telekinesis (DC 21), Passwall
*1/Day: Chaos Hammer (DC 20)

Caster Level 8

Telekinesis CL 13

-Slaad Fever: DC: 21 incubation period: 1 day, 1d3 dex & 1d3 cha
An afflicted Humanoid reduced to 0 Cha by this disease immediately transforms into a red slaad. If it is an arcane spellcaster, it transforms into a green slaad.

Skills:
Climb – 23 (11 Ranks + 12 Str)
Concentration – 17 (10 Ranks + 7 Con)
Hide – 13 (7 Ranks + 6 Dex)
Jump – 23 (11 Ranks + 12 Str)
Listen – 10 (11 Ranks – 1 Wis)
Move Silently – 17 (11 Ranks + 6 Dex)
Spot – 11 (11 Ranks – 1 Wis)

Feats:
-Improved Unarmed Strike
-Improved Grapple
-Multiattack
-Power Attack
-
-

Languages:
Common
Slaadi

Equipment: 
Ring of Protection +5
Belt of Giant’s Strength +6
Amulet of Health +6
+5 Mithral Breastplate
Cloak of Charisma +6
Vest of Resistance +5
Gloves of Dexterity +4
Ring of Evasion
6.600 gold left
NEED AMULET OF MIGHTY FISTS! JOIN IT WITH AMULET OF HEALTH, LOSE SOME GOLD SOMEWHERE ELSE![/sblock]


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 27, 2007)

The RG is here:


http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=3905721#post3905721


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 27, 2007)

I just noticed looking now, but Nephtys, the Knock-Down feat is 3.0 and never got ported to 3.5 (it was from Sword and Fist I believe), I believe they replaced it with Knockback from Races of Stone which gives a free bull rush if you hit a guy - a little less crazy, and it doesn't cause the insane Improved Trip/Knock-Down combo of getting two attacks for every one.

Also, a quick question: Are you using transparency or separation for magic/psionics (i.e. are power resistance/magic resistance separate or the same, and can psionics dispel magic and vice versa).


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 27, 2007)

Full transperancy except for a few small things like detect psionics.


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## Nephtys (Nov 27, 2007)

Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> I just noticed looking now, but Nephtys, the Knock-Down feat is 3.0 and never got ported to 3.5 (it was from Sword and Fist I believe), I believe they replaced it with Knockback from Races of Stone which gives a free bull rush if you hit a guy - a little less crazy, and it doesn't cause the insane Improved Trip/Knock-Down combo of getting two attacks for every one.




That's weird, I got it from the 3,5 SRD, but maybe it's not completely up to date... 

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/divine/divineAbilitiesFeats.htm#knockDown

What do you say ACF?

Anyway, I've been thinking about dropping it anyway and picking up the Spiked Chain proficiency, which would add an ironic twist to the character.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 27, 2007)

You can take it as it is in the SRD. There won't be enough combat to make it a huge worry--it's not a dungeon crawl where combat roles define characters.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 27, 2007)

Actually, if you look at the address, it's still in the SRD under feats for gods


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## Nephtys (Nov 28, 2007)

Thanks ACF.



			
				Nac Mac Feegle said:
			
		

> Actually, if you look at the address, it's still in the SRD under feats for gods




If I thought I could take feats for gods I would have picked something a lot more powerful . (The subsection is just ordinary feats that happen to come from the same book, Divine something.)


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 28, 2007)

In 3.0 it was the deities and demigods book, now it's just under 'divine' stuff.

Up to ACF really.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 28, 2007)

Yes, you can take the feat. The prereqs are STR of 15 and BAB of +2. It's certainly no diety feat.


I still need some background from ethandrew and Nac Mac Feegle.


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## Nac Mac Feegle (Nov 29, 2007)

Put a brief bit up in the RG.


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## ethandrew (Nov 29, 2007)

I'll get something in for you by the end of the day.

Edit: aaaaaand done! In the RG.


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## A Crazy Fool (Nov 30, 2007)

We will begin (actually) tomorrow unless my computer dies or something.


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## Cage-Rattler (Nov 30, 2007)

Just poppin' in to say that I'll definitely be keeping an eye on this game.  Try not to jangle up the planes _too_ much, alright?    

Watch the Spire!

- C-R


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## A Crazy Fool (Dec 3, 2007)

Okay, I have the better part of the introduction written (Nalakt, Harin Silouhette, and Varan's parts are all fully writen).

The problem is that I'm struggling to find a way to introduce everyone at once (you all tie in, but it would be hard to introduce you all right away. Since this is PBP and therefore slow, that's a pretty serious problem). I'm going to need a bit more time to think, I'm really sorry about this delay. The begining of my campaign outline didn't work when I looked at it from the perspective of a PBP game.


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## Shayuri (Dec 3, 2007)

Suggestion: You don't necessarily have to start with us all together.

If you don't mind running us in our little solo worlds at first.


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## A Crazy Fool (Dec 3, 2007)

Fair enough. I'll finish my last two intro entries then and post after I get home from school. 

*gets on knees and sacrifices a small animal to the snow gods so that school may be cancelled on account of snow*


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## A Crazy Fool (Dec 4, 2007)

I'm really sorry, guys, but I think I'll have to put the campaign on hold until my life settles down a bit. It's not dead by any stretch of the imagination, but I need a few weeks to beat real life down. With all my other commitments, I don't know if I can handle begining annother campaign at this very moment. I can say for certain that by the end of december I'll have all my essays, exams, etc. finished. Again, really sorry.


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## A Crazy Fool (Dec 24, 2007)

I've given this a lot of thought and looked over my campaign notes. I've realized that I can't make this adventure work well as a full length campaign given the diversity of characters and other potential dificulties with high powered characters in the setting as well as real life, so I'm going to call off this game. I'm sorry for wasting your time creating high level characters, and if (when) I run a slightly better fated and thought out Planescape campaign--that is, one where I have a better idea of what sort of characters I want, I'll give those of you who still want to deal with my irregular posts and bizzare writing priority to join.


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