# A Thought on Kylo Ren



## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jan 11, 2016)

Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader and was never intended to be Darth Vader.
Kylo Ren is Anders Breivik.
Kylo Ren is Jared Loughner.
Kylo Ren is Marc Lépine.
Kylo Ren is Elliot Rodger.
Kylo Ren is Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold.
Kylo Ren is might be pretty, but Kylo Ren is a god damned monster.
Please, don't "ship" him with anyone.


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## MarkB (Jan 11, 2016)

I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that I don't recognise any of those names (aside from Kylo Ren and Darth Vader).

And as for not "shipping" him, I haven't gone looking, but I suspect that "ship" has long since sailed.


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jan 11, 2016)

Be "happish" as they are all dreadful people.


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## ccs (Jan 11, 2016)

Q: Who is Kylo Ren?
A: The least interesting character in the new movie.


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## HardcoreDandDGirl (Jan 11, 2016)

I think Kylo Ren is a child hurt and way too complicated... I don't see why you don't want to see him shipped, he is no worse then vader 'killed how many children?"


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## Umbran (Jan 11, 2016)

My thought on Kylo Ren is this:  Chewbacca didn't have to miss the killing shot.


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## Tonguez (Jan 11, 2016)

MarkB said:


> I'm not sure whether to be happy or sad that I don't recognise any of those names (aside from Kylo Ren and Darth Vader).
> .




I'm Happy, I have no idea who they are either

obviously OP is too hip for me

although we could maybe ship Kylo and BB8 and call it a byro ben


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## Demmero (Jan 11, 2016)

I think Kylo Ren wasn't always evil...he became that way after hanging around for too many years with his fat, bloated, idiotic sidekick, Kylo Stimpy.


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## Ovinomancer (Jan 12, 2016)

I believe this thread to be in extreme poor taste.


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jan 12, 2016)

Tonguez said:


> I'm Happy, I have no idea who they are either
> 
> obviously OP is too hip for me
> 
> although we could maybe ship Kylo and BB8 and call it a byro ben



They are all mass murderers.Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold perpetrated the Columbine Massacre, for example. I can't get past the fact Kylo destroyed his school and killed the students.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Jan 12, 2016)

Some say, that he perpetrated the original school shooting, and that his eyebrows are actually chaotic evil caterpillars.

All we know it, he's called Kylo Ren.

------

_Watch Out!_
(Subtitled: Kylo Ren’s Starfighter)

He’s Kylo Ren!
He’s PS ten
Yet he can’t find
The rebel den.

Bad Kylo Ren!
He turns and then
Goes flying past 
O’er hill and fen.

O Kylo Ren!
With Force’s ken
He turns to look
Down in the glen.

It’s Kylo Ren!
Now this is when
Rey learns to use
Her wizard’s zen.

Poor Kylo Ren!
Caught in a pen
And vaporized
By X-wing men.


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## Eltab (Jan 12, 2016)

Anybody planning to create "Star Wars: The Next Generation" KNOWS that you cannot 'top' Darth Vader.  He is too awe-inspiring a villian.

However a character trying to 'step into Vader's shoes' ALSO knows what kind of a cliff he's trying to climb.  And for a VERY long time, he's going to look / feel like a two-bit wannabee.

I think Kylo Ren should wake up from repeating nightmares where HE faces Vader in Cloud City, overpowered and forced to retreat, always hearing that voice taunting him, "But you are NOT a Sith Lord ... yet ..."


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## HardcoreDandDGirl (Jan 12, 2016)

I am way less impressed now that I know the OP thinks compairing a movie villain to school shooters is fair game...


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## Hand of Evil (Jan 12, 2016)

Spare the rod, spoil the child.


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## delericho (Jan 12, 2016)

Grumpy RPG Reviews said:


> They are all mass murderers.Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold perpetrated the Columbine Massacre, for example. I can't get past the fact Kylo destroyed his school and killed the students.




That's different from Darth Vader? Anakin did exactly the same thing in Episode III.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 12, 2016)

delericho said:


> That's different from Darth Vader? Anakin did exactly the same thing in Episode III.



If making your name known in a final, brutal act is a goal for mass murderers, then not using their name - particular when comparing them to fictional characters from a space fantasy tale - might be a good idea. It doesn't matter for them, but it might matter for people that are contempating similar actions. 


And I think he doesn't fit the bill. He has no death wish, as far as we know. And he is part of a larger, military organization that is trying to force its iwll on others, not an isolated entity. So yes, he might be a mass murderer, but he is not the same type as one of those running amok. His motivations and goals are likely different, as is the environment he operates in. 

This is also true for Anakin Skywalker. 
And while both are mass murderers, Anakin also seems different.

Which isn't to say anyone of them are defensible or just misguided fools.


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## delericho (Jan 12, 2016)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> And I think he doesn't fit the bill....
> 
> This is also true for Anakin Skywalker...




I agree with you. But please note the context of my post: I was replying to the original poster, who had asserted that "Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader...", comparing him instead with school shooters (amongst others), because "I can't get past the fact Kylo destroyed his school and killed the students."

In which case, the fact that Anakin did the same thing as Kylo Ren is probably noteworthy.


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## Maxperson (Jan 12, 2016)

Grumpy RPG Reviews said:


> They are all mass murderers.Eric Harris and Dylan Klebold perpetrated the Columbine Massacre, for example. I can't get past the fact Kylo destroyed his school and killed the students.




So what if he did.  It's a movie, not reality, and any resemblance to reality should be ignored.  Movies would pretty much have to end altogether if they had to avoid subjects that were touchy in the real world.  I like going to movies.


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## Ryujin (Jan 12, 2016)

Psychologically, Kylo Ren strikes me as a petulant three year old child who obtained the power to wish people to death and, as a result, never grew up past the point of throwing violent temper tantrums. He's the far more outwardly violent kin of the kid from the "Twilight Zone" episode "It's a good life" (played by Bill Mumy of "Lost in Space" and "Babylon 5"), who when presented with a person or thing he didn't like would "wish it into the cornfield."


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## Umbran (Jan 12, 2016)

Ryujin said:


> Psychologically, Kylo Ren strikes me as a petulant three year old child who obtained the power to wish people to death and, as a result, never grew up past the point of throwing violent temper tantrums.




Well, petulant teenager, anyway.  This is the problem with the Dark Side - it calls on users to *harness* anger, fear, jealousy, and pain.  They have to be filled with it.


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## Mallus (Jan 12, 2016)

Kylo Ren is played by Adam Driver, so I wouldn't bet money _against_ him being shipped.

Kylo Ren is also a character in the Star Wars universe, so I wouldn't bet money against him being redeemed, at least partially so, by the end of Episode IX. That's just how things roll in the moral universe of Star Wars. 

I'm okay with that. Ethics work differently in fiction.

(and I agree, the comparison to real-life mass murderers is in pretty poor taste -- and I usually a fan of poor taste!)


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## Bedrockgames (Jan 12, 2016)

I am seeing a lot of people hold up Kylo Ren as embodying this or that (and often they are contradictory things). My take is he is what happens when a young, overzealous person tries to embrace the Dark Side. I kind of like that it is this collision of hormones and dark spiritual energy. 

I do think there is a difference though with this kind of over the top villain in a film and real life murderers. These are meant to be entertaining and frightening characters but people in the real world are a lot more complex and their crimes affect real people. Even though Vader killed a bunch of Jedi children, we can forgive him on screen because it is make believe and the arcs are condensed to fit the medium (which the viewer understands). 

Kyo Ren is pretty comparable to Vader in terms of his crimes though. The only substantial difference is Ren killed his own father (but Vader killed his metaphorical father, Obi-Wan). Personally I think Vader seems a lot more comfortable with doing bad things than Kylo Ren does (though in fairness Kylo Ren hasn't had time to grow into those shoes yet).


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## Ryujin (Jan 12, 2016)

Umbran said:


> Well, petulant teenager, anyway.  This is the problem with the Dark Side - it calls on users to *harness* anger, fear, jealousy, and pain.  They have to be filled with it.




Teenagers can be rather rebellious, by their very nature, but I went for the age that I did for very specific reasons. Ever hear the expression "the terrible twos"? Age 2-3 is typically when a child learns the word "no." They apply it liberally, frequently coupled with physical tantrums. Imagine a two or three year old who learns the word "no" an has the capability to enforce his will by, say, crushing your windpipe. 

Ren never matured, emotionally, beyond two or three years old.


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## Umbran (Jan 12, 2016)

Ryujin said:


> Ren never matured, emotionally, beyond two or three years old.




I said teenager fore very specific reasons, as well.  Ren, to me, seems far more mature than 2 or 3.  A 2 or 3 year old throws a violent outburst (as I understand it) largely because he or she has limited emotional vocabulary, and is establishing boundaries - what is allowed, and what is not.  That child is, in essence, testing their parents to see what they can get away with.

By my recollection, Ren doesn't throw a tantrum when in the presence of someone he feels is superior (Snoke) or even peer (General Hux).  He is not testing his boundaries, not trying to influence anyone with his outbursts.  He knows that this is not acceptable behavior.  That's not the behavior of a 2 or 3 year old.


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## Grumpy RPG Reviews (Jan 12, 2016)

To my knowledge no one sexualized Vader, at least not to the degree they are doing so for Ren. Granted, Driver is an attractive fellow, but the linking of Ren and Rey bothers me for a host of reasons. It is arguably worse than that of Bella and Edward (Anastasia and Christian, Christine and Erik, etc.) in so far as they had a sexual relationship, while Ren and Rey do not. Fetishizing abusive relationships disturbs me.


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## Umbran (Jan 12, 2016)

Grumpy RPG Reviews said:


> Fetishizing abusive relationships disturbs me.




I think you may be overstating it by calling it fetishizing.  I think it is more romanticizing - like, if you saw how the relationship in most romance novels play out in the real world, they'd be considered abusive....


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## Ryujin (Jan 12, 2016)

Umbran said:


> I said teenager fore very specific reasons, as well.  Ren, to me, seems far more mature than 2 or 3.  A 2 or 3 year old throws a violent outburst (as I understand it) largely because he or she has limited emotional vocabulary, and is establishing boundaries - what is allowed, and what is not.  That child is, in essence, testing their parents to see what they can get away with.
> 
> By my recollection, Ren doesn't throw a tantrum when in the presence of someone he feels is superior (Snoke) or even peer (General Hux).  He is not testing his boundaries, not trying to influence anyone with his outbursts.  He knows that this is not acceptable behavior.  That's not the behavior of a 2 or 3 year old.




Or the behaviour of a 3 year old with an abusive parent who won't take his crap. Boundaries tested and found.


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## Ovinomancer (Jan 13, 2016)

Kylo doesn't act like a 3 year old.  The 3 year old uses his outburst to try to gain control of the situation.  Kylo uses his outbursts as a vent for anger.  Is it still juvenile?  Yes, pretty much in the same why that adults with anger management issues are juvenile in their outbursts.  However, it's nowhere near the emotional and intellectual immaturity of a 3-year old.  Not does it serve the same purpose.  

Kylo has his tantrum, reigns it in, and then responds to the situation in a much more controlled manner.  The 3 year old rarely does this absent pressure applied from the outside -- a punishment (such as a time out) or a concession that rewards the behavior.  Kylo controls himself after each outburst, and then uses much more mature coping mechanisms to deal with the issue.

Honestly, trying to compare Kylo's outbursts to a three year old's tantrums kinda smacks of someone who doesn't have kids talking out of their nether orifice.


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## Umbran (Jan 13, 2016)

Ryujin said:


> Or the behaviour of a 3 year old with an abusive parent who won't take his crap. Boundaries tested and found.




That doesn't follow the behavior of abuse victims in the real world as I understand them (I'm not a mental health professional, but I have folks in my life with PTSD from abusive parents). 

Which is not to say that Ren doesn't show signs of being in an abusive relationship - he *does*.  But "3 year old" is *not* the result.   I'm sorry, but I think your analogy to a 3 year old is simply not apt.


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## Eltab (Jan 15, 2016)

Umbran said:


> Well, petulant teenager, anyway.  This is the problem with the Dark Side - it calls on users to *harness* anger, fear, jealousy, and pain.  They have to be filled with it.



Would you consider this a fair analogy:
Gasoline is fuel to a car.  It provides power, energy, and a push.  Sith Lords should use their aggressive feelings to fuel their power in the Dark Side.
Gasoline poisons humans.  Sith Lords are supposed to have control of their feelings, not drown in them.

Kylo Ren starts off by splashing himself with a face-full of gasoline.


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## Herobizkit (Jan 15, 2016)

Kylo Ren 'hero worships' Darth Vader and wants to be like him.

Presumably, Vader's, uh, career path (the stuff we don't see) that leads to his being the right-hand man to the Emperor himself are very big shoes to fill.

When Kylo Ren fails, he takes that failure very personally.  It makes him frustrated and angry that things aren't going as well for him as they did (?) for Darth Vader.  

Then he meets Rey.  Someone who doesn't even want to deal with the Force, and she turns his mind probe around and thwarts him.  She came upon that pretty easily and he knows it.  This makes him very angry.

Now here's this same girl later down the road, picks up LUKE'S lightsaber of all things and proceeds to hold her own against a (severely wounded, of course) Kylo Ren, and just when it looks like a victory is hand, the very earth itself opens up, separating the two.  This probably makes Ren very angry.

Anger leads to hate.

Hate leads to the Dark Side.

And cookies!

Point is, Kylo does some bad stuff, but it's not what you DO that fuels the Dark Side, but what you FEEL.  Killing all those innocents was a dick move, sure, but what he actually gets emotional about is trying to be a Uber-Sith while everyone around him is doing better than him at everything.

That's pretty childish, I guess.


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## Ryujin (Jan 15, 2016)

*EDIT* I hate it when I post in the wrong thread


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## doctorbadwolf (Jan 15, 2016)

Ryujin said:


> Or the behaviour of a 3 year old with an abusive parent who won't take his crap. Boundaries tested and found.




Not even a little bit. Kylo's behavior displays a level of emotional complexity that 3 year olds are literally incapable of. The very fact that he is torn between light and dark, that he doesn't want to admit that his father means anything to him, the idea of adopting a new identify to escape the real one, etc are all displays of a complex emotional state.


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## doctorbadwolf (Jan 15, 2016)

Eltab said:


> Would you consider this a fair analogy:
> Gasoline is fuel to a car. It provides power, energy, and a push. Sith Lords should use their aggressive feelings to fuel their power in the Dark Side.
> Gasoline poisons humans. Sith Lords are supposed to have control of their feelings, not drown in them.
> 
> Kylo Ren starts off by splashing himself with a face-full of gasoline.




quick note. so far as we know, the Knights of Ren aren't part of the Sith tradition.


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## Kaodi (Jan 15, 2016)

Been two weeks and I have already forgotten: In what ways does Kylo Ren attack or harm his own allies in the movie? During the two violent outbursts I remember, he basically hacked up a room with a computer board and he hacked up the interrogation chamber. And in the latter case, there was a Stormtrooper involved who Vader probably would have force choked to death.


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## Water Bob (Jan 16, 2016)

Umbran said:


> My thought on Kylo Ren is this:  Chewbacca didn't have to miss the killing shot.




Chewbacca didn't miss!  He was spot on!  

The blast would have torn Kylo Ren in twain, but Ren used a Force Point.


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## Eltab (Jan 16, 2016)

doctorbadwolf said:


> so far as we know, the Knights of Ren aren't part of the Sith tradition.



Fair enough; we never see Darth Sidious or Darth Vader working to extend the tradition beyond themselves*, so the next Dark Side adept might have to start from scratch and reconstruct as much as he can, knowing he won't find / discover everything that was lost.

* I understand that Sidious wants to pit Vader against Luke and keep the winner as Apprentice (like, a generation ago, he pitted Dooku against Anakin).  
   Vader seems to think Luke can become Co-Apprentice under Sidious.  Did Sidious stop thinking beyond his personal future?


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## Ruzak (Jan 16, 2016)

Kaodi said:


> Been two weeks and I have already forgotten: In what ways does Kylo Ren attack or harm his own allies in the movie? During the two violent outbursts I remember, he basically hacked up a room with a computer board and he hacked up the interrogation chamber. And in the latter case, there was a Stormtrooper involved who Vader probably would have force choked to death.



I agree, Kylo handles his anger better than Vader. Sure, he vents in a violent fashion, but he doesn't kill the messenger.  
I think Kylo also shows maturity in his dealing with his weakness and doubts about the dark side.  He talks about this with his mentor, gets advice, and ultimately overcomes the problem by killing his father.  Vader hides and bottles his feelings.  They get the better of him, leading to his own failure.


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## Maxperson (Jan 16, 2016)

Eltab said:


> Vader seems to think Luke can become Co-Apprentice under Sidious.  Did Sidious stop thinking beyond his personal future?




That's not what I remember.  I remember something along the lines of "Join me and together we can overcome the Emperor and rule the galaxy together as father and son."  I think Vader had it in mind to be the new Sith master and Luke the new Sith apprentice.


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## Eltab (Jan 17, 2016)

Maxperson said:


> I remember something along the lines of "Join me and together we can overcome the Emperor and rule the galaxy together as father and son."



Ep5: 
"Luke, you can destroy the Emperor.  He has foreseen it !  Join me - together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy."  Later "we can rule the galaxy as father and son."
But while saying this, Vader is under orders to turn Luke to the Dark Side or destroy him.  Telling him "btw, we're going to visit the Emperor next" is contra-indicated.  I thought Vader's whole discussion - from "I am your father" to Luke jumping into the bottomless pit - was falsehoods, intended to confuse Luke and make him more susceptible to Vader / Palpatine's manipulations. 

Ep6:
Now Vader is under orders to bring Luke to the Emperor - probably because his solo effort to turn Luke failed.  He is plain about this to Luke.  Vader never does anything against the Emperor - he does stretch the letter of his orders a bit, but not the spirit - until the Emperor turns against him: "Fulfill your destiny, and take your father's place at my side."  When Luke demonstrates his loyalty to Anakin/Vader instead and endures the Emperor's displeasure as a result, THEN the betrayed and outraged Vader lays ungentle hands on Palpatine.


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## Water Bob (Jan 17, 2016)




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## Maxperson (Jan 17, 2016)

Eltab said:


> Ep5:
> "Luke, you can destroy the Emperor.  He has foreseen it !  Join me - together we can end this destructive conflict and bring order to the galaxy."  Later "we can rule the galaxy as father and son."
> But while saying this, Vader is under orders to turn Luke to the Dark Side or destroy him.  Telling him "btw, we're going to visit the Emperor next" is contra-indicated.  I thought Vader's whole discussion - from "I am your father" to Luke jumping into the bottomless pit - was falsehoods, intended to confuse Luke and make him more susceptible to Vader / Palpatine's manipulations.
> 
> ...




My take on it was that Vader was serious in Episode V, at least at the time of the offer.  Then in Episode VI when Luke had already demonstrated that he wasn't going to turn AND was further trained, making it even less likely that Luke would join him, Vader complied with the Emperor's wishes.


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## MarkB (Jan 17, 2016)

Ruzak said:


> I agree, Kylo handles his anger better than Vader. Sure, he vents in a violent fashion, but he doesn't kill the messenger.




My impression was that Kylo simply didn't have quite the level of seniority or authority within the First Order to go around killing his own people in a fit of pique.


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## Ruzak (Jan 17, 2016)

MarkB said:


> My impression was that Kylo simply didn't have quite the level of seniority or authority within the First Order to go around killing his own people in a fit of pique.



This is probably an element of it.  I don't have a good sense of Kylo's ranking in the organization.  He & Hux seem similar to Vader & Tarkin.  Then again, Vader looks to have complete authority in ESB, when most of the choking takes place.


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## MarkB (Jan 17, 2016)

Ruzak said:


> This is probably an element of it.  I don't have a good sense of Kylo's ranking in the organization.  He & Hux seem similar to Vader & Tarkin.  Then again, Vader looks to have complete authority in ESB, when most of the choking takes place.




Yeah, I think rank-wise they're similar to Vader and Tarkin. The difference is that Vader and Tarkin had mutual respect, whereas Kylo and Hux don't.

Also, "Kylo and Hux" sounds like a great buddy-cop show.


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## Ruzak (Jan 17, 2016)

It's hard to tell, because we don't see Vader & Tarkin blaming each other in front of the emperor.  They and their relationship are certainly more mature than the buddy cops.


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## Ryujin (Jan 17, 2016)

Here's a little insider info on Kylo Ren:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FaOSCASqLsE


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## Eltab (Jan 17, 2016)

MarkB said:


> The difference is that Vader and Tarkin had mutual respect, whereas Kylo and Hux don't.



After watching Ep3, this change might have been in order...
Anakin/Vader, chasing Kenobi towards the lava flow, should have passed some clone troopers led by a tall thin guy who is an ambitious lieutenant with aspirations to higher position (Tarkin).  He asks Anakin if he needs help; Anakin says "No, I'll take him myself," and departs through a door.  Tarkin thinks about it a minute (realizes that Anakin is special to Palpatine) and tells his troops "Jedi are dangerous opponents.  We're going to back him up."  They cannot keep up once the two combatants get over the flowing lava, and only arrive after Kenobi leaves Anakin behind gravely injured and near death.  (Maybe Kenobi leaves because he senses their approach?)  Tarkin orders his men to rescue Vader and he calls for medical support.  When the Emperor finally arrives, Tarkin has the situation well in hand - Vader is wrapped in a medpallet - and is clearly responsible for saving Vader from death.  This improves his standing in Palpatine's eyes immensely AND establishes him as somebody who figures out the Emperor's will and implements it without having to be constantly supervised.

Between movies, it seems that he and Vader occasionally work together, both of them help the other out when necessary.  They are rivals for the Emperor's attention and for influence, but they are not enemies.  Neither are they friends.  They watch each others' backs and do not gloat over each other when something goes badly.  (As a result, the Emperor usually keeps them busy and far away from each other - building the Death Star and finding the stolen plans is an unusual intersection by this time.)
I do not see Tarkin pointing fingers at somebody else during the Emperor's "after-action report" when a project goes awry; I see him explaining how he made the best of a collapsing situation and brought out something - albeit not what was wanted originally - despite all obstacles.


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## Morrus (Jan 18, 2016)

Eltab said:


> After watching Ep3, this change might have been in order...
> Anakin/Vader, chasing Kenobi towards the lava flow, should have passed some clone troopers led by a tall thin guy who is an ambitious lieutenant with aspirations to higher position (Tarkin).  He asks Anakin if he needs help; Anakin says "No, I'll take him myself," and departs through a door.  Tarkin thinks about it a minute (realizes that Anakin is special to Palpatine) and tells his troops "Jedi are dangerous opponents.  We're going to back him up."  They cannot keep up once the two combatants get over the flowing lava, and only arrive after Kenobi leaves Anakin behind gravely injured and near death.  (Maybe Kenobi leaves because he senses their approach?)  Tarkin orders his men to rescue Vader and he calls for medical support.  When the Emperor finally arrives, Tarkin has the situation well in hand - Vader is wrapped in a medpallet - and is clearly responsible for saving Vader from death.  This improves his standing in Palpatine's eyes immensely AND establishes him as somebody who figures out the Emperor's will and implements it without having to be constantly supervised.
> 
> Between movies, it seems that he and Vader occasionally work together, both of them help the other out when necessary.  They are rivals for the Emperor's attention and for influence, but they are not enemies.  Neither are they friends.  They watch each others' backs and do not gloat over each other when something goes badly.  (As a result, the Emperor usually keeps them busy and far away from each other - building the Death Star and finding the stolen plans is an unusual intersection by this time.)
> I do not see Tarkin pointing fingers at somebody else during the Emperor's "after-action report" when a project goes awry; I see him explaining how he made the best of a collapsing situation and brought out something - albeit not what was wanted originally - despite all obstacles.




I think it's more that Tarkin is high up in the command structure, while Vader is outside it as the Emperer's personal henchman. Technically Vader has no military rank.


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## megamania (Jan 18, 2016)

He doesn't scare me.   Without his mask I look at him go...... "Does your mom know you're out this late?"


Spoiled Brat....   not a force of vile darkness or tyranny


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## Water Bob (Jan 18, 2016)

megamania said:


> He doesn't scare me.   Without his mask I look at him go...... "Does your mom know you're out this late?"




Then he reaches out with the Force and squeezes your heart until blood flows out of your ears.

Kylo Ren is the Star Wars equivalent of Star Trek's Charlie X.  That's one of Trek's best episodes because it is so haunting--a tantrum throwing adolescent with the power to make people not exist.

Pretty scary to me.


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## Shasarak (Jan 19, 2016)

Grumpy RPG Reviews said:


> Kylo Ren is not Darth Vader and was never intended to be Darth Vader.




I would agree, he is no Darth Vader.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jan 21, 2016)

Water Bob said:


> Then he reaches out with the Force and squeezes your heart until blood flows out of your ears.
> 
> Kylo Ren is the Star Wars equivalent of Star Trek's Charlie X.  That's one of Trek's best episodes because it is so haunting--a tantrum throwing adolescent with the power to make people not exist.
> 
> Pretty scary to me.



It's also the part where we are reminded that Kirk had balls of steels, because he managed to talk the boy down (most of the time). It requires an aura of authority and confidence that few possess.


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