# pbp Forum Project



## tdewitt274 (Aug 8, 2009)

I've been toying with the idea of creating a Play by Post Forum for some time.  However, not being a regular player, I only have a faint idea of what to include.  I'm looking for ideas of what to include and will work on this in my spare time.

So, here's what I'm looking for:  A central location that will allow gamemasters and players a rich user experience capable of handling content and fun for the purpose of system specific and generic Play by Post internet games.

The forum is more focused on adding more game specific information into the experience.  Some features include:

Multiple characters per user account.
Multiple aliases per character
Generalized posting area with an "Action" area that will show actions taken by the user
Stored die rolls
Time based tracking
Open posting and Initiative based posting
Personalized Avatars
Online maps with the ability to "map out" actions
Ability to use different fantasy languages
Character status and conditions
Turn notifications

I'm interested in hearing what other people would like to see out of this.  Any ideas or suggestions are welcome, including your takes on the items above (described below).

If there is enough of a need for this, I'd be interested in spending additional time to make this become a reality.

Thanks in advance, and enjoy!

=========================================================

A more detailed rundown of the above items.  

Multiple characters per user account - A person signs up for an account and can create multiple characters.  When submitting a post, they are able to choose the name of the character.  There will be a restriction that the character must be involved in the game to be used for posting.

Multiple aliases per character - GMs and players can post as different character names for whatever purpose.  For example, a villain is masquerading as a beggar.  The beggar's name will show instead of the villain.  Anything that happens to the beggar also happens to the villain.

Generalized posting area with an "Action" area that will show actions taken by the user - Forums have an area for posting descriptions of what is happening.  This area would have supplemental information that relates game terms to those viewing.  As an example, in the d20 system, an attack action would look something like "[Player 1] attacks [Villain] [roll] and hits for [XX] damage.  The normal posting area is not affected by this section.

Stored die rolls - Upon submission of a post, the die rolls are saved.  The results are randomly generated.  This frees up the GM and Players from having to post results.

Time based tracking - GMs are responsible for updating the time in the game.  When a game is set up, a date and time is determined by the GM.  The GM can progress the time in seconds, minutes, hours, days, months, or years with a simple action.  When in combat, the system would automatically adjust time as needed.  Actions of players may also add to the time (ex, taking 20 on a search, brewing a potion, etc).

Open posting and Initiative based posting - The GM can control how posting is processed.  In times where there isn't an emphasis on "time" ("open posting"), posting can be done at any time by anyone.  If there is a need to keep track of who goes, "initiative-based" posting takes over.  The current and next characters in the initiative will be visible in the post title and on the page.  A person cannot post out of turn in "initiative-based" posting.  The GM can institute a "time limit" that will skip over people that do not post within the time frame (ex, 5 seconds, 3 days, or even 2 years).  Depending on the option used, the player may be able to post as if he was using a "held action".

Personalized Avatars - Each alias has a picture available for viewing.  This way the Beggar and Villain don't have the same visage.

Online maps with the ability to "map out" actions - Map fields with a background of the area are scaled for players to map out their actions.

Ability to use different fantasy languages - If a language is posted that a character doesn't understand, the post will reflect in the same way (random characters).  Those that have the language will read it as normal.

Character status and conditions - As with normal forums, there is usually a location below the poster's name that has information about the posting person.  This area will be used to show the character's statuses and conditions (ex, HP, Bloodied, Prone, etc).

Turn notifications - As described above, users can see who's turn it is with a quick glance at the thread.


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## CaBaNa (Aug 8, 2009)

That sounds awesome. 

I'll be watching this thread to see where it goes.


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## Relique du Madde (Aug 9, 2009)

That's an interesting project.  But let me point you to one location for research purposes:   fantasyrole.org

I haven't used that site in a long time, so I'm not sure how many many of your ideal features they have currently have.  Thing is, not matter what, you are looking at having to do a lot of programming (if you need to build out custom modules) and your site would have to have an extensive database.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 9, 2009)

Relique du Madde said:


> That's an interesting project.  But let me point you to one location for research purposes:   fantasyrole.org
> 
> I haven't used that site in a long time, so I'm not sure how many many of your ideal features they have currently have.  Thing is, not matter what, you are looking at having to do a lot of programming (if you need to build out custom modules) and your site would have to have an extensive database.




Thanks!  I'll take a look at the site, it may have some ideas as well.

Yeah, the project is ambitious.  However, if the db design is solid, it could accommodate many systems using similar code.  A lot of the game systems out there use the same objectives (roll high, roll low) and comparisons (Attack versus AC, Save vs Reflex), it's what happens afterward that really makes things difficult (like SW d6 Damage Track versus D&D's HP).  Then there's the unique stuff like Alternity's die rolling system


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 9, 2009)

I've also posted this on the Paizo's Gamer Life board.


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## CaBaNa (Aug 10, 2009)

After thinking about it, you may also want to have an Out of Character posting area visible on the thread.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 10, 2009)

CaBaNa said:


> After thinking about it, you may also want to have an Out of Character posting area visible on the thread.




My initial through was to have a BBCode for Out of Character, but I like this idea.  I'd also like to keep the BBCode for Out of Character that can be placed in the post

Post Areas:

In Character (Character primarily)
Out of Character (Player Only)
Actions (System messages based on player actions)

While looking at the aforementioned website, there was mention of "transcriptions".  I like the idea of having the ability to both save the information as well as a possible "transcription view".  

On Enworld.org and Paizo.com, there are two boards set up (one for pbp and one for discussion).  Adding this option could merge both of those forums.  The user could also have the option of seeing "OoC Only" view and "In Character Only" view.  Of course, there could also be the "Transcription View" that people outside of the game can see just the story that transpires.

Any thoughts on this?  Would it be helpful?  Excessive?  Additional thoughts?


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 10, 2009)

Below are some of the BBCodes that I think would enhance the usability of the game.

For those that don't know, BBCodes are essentially masks for the server to replace later with either HTML code (like bold and italics), additional information (ex, an abbreviation).  or to censor (like Voldemort is changed to "He Who Shall Not Be Named", or the more obvious swearing).

In the below examples, a "Person" can be designated for the action done.  This is entirely optional.  Two options are given, normal BBCode brackets (ex, *words* for Bold) and a "Wiki code" shorthand (ex, [[words]] for Bold).


BBCodes
//italics// or [i ]italics[/i ]
[[bold]] or [b ]bold[/b ]
__underline__ or [u ]underline[/u ]

""Person|quote"" or [q uote="Person"]quote[/q uote] 
--Person|out of character-- or [ooc="Person"]out of character[/ooc] 
((Person|think)) or [think="Person"]think[/think] 
~~Person|whisper~~ or [whisper="Person"]whisper[/whisper]
||Person|tell|| or [tell="Person"]tell[/tell]
??Person|ask?? or [ask="Person"]ask[/ask]
!!Person|shout!! or [shout]shout[/shout]
:erson|emote:: [emote="Person"]descriptor[/emote]  (Displays as "You descriptor at Person" or "You descriptor"

Note:  Spaces added to avoid the BBCode on this site

Most of the codes are self explanatory.  The Emote is a free form option.

Anything I missed?  Anything that should be changed?


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## Thanee (Aug 10, 2009)

tdewitt274 said:


> On Enworld.org and Paizo.com, there are two boards set up (one for pbp and one for discussion).




Yes, but these sites are not dedicated to PbP.

On a pure PbP forum there is only one way... one subforum for every game, so you can make numerous threads and keep them all grouped together that way.


Multiple characters per account is actually pretty nifty. I know two sites, where it works that way (one is also a dedicated and self-coded PbP forum; the other is using the SMF forum software, which has an add-on for user-personas installed). 

For a dedicated PbP site, that is definitely a good idea.

Bye
Thanee


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## covaithe (Aug 10, 2009)

One feature that has changed the way I look at PbP is versioning of character sheets.  I really like to be able to view and compare the changes that have been made to a sheet over time, and for other people (e.g. the DM) to be able to do the same.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanee said:


> On a pure PbP forum there is only one way... one subforum for every game, so you can make numerous threads and keep them all grouped together that way.




True, those sites add the pbp as an additional service that fits into the framework.

However, would integrating the "Talk" and "Play" forums be a good idea?  If the post was indicated differently, such as background color as pink instead of white, to differentiate the post help?  If a subforum is a better option, it can sure be that way.



Thanee said:


> Multiple characters per account is actually pretty nifty. I know two sites, where it works that way (one is also a dedicated and self-coded PbP forum; the other is using the SMF forum software, which has an add-on for user-personas installed).




I've only seen one option out there for pbp software.  I don't remember what the name was, but it was integrated into a "Star Trek" type of system.  Can you point me to other sites for inspiration?

Thanks for the feedback!


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 10, 2009)

covaithe said:


> One feature that has changed the way I look at PbP is versioning of character sheets.  I really like to be able to view and compare the changes that have been made to a sheet over time, and for other people (e.g. the DM) to be able to do the same.




I don't think that this would be a problem.  Character sheets are essentially just combined versions of existing statuses.  Even the option of "retraining" in 4e can be easily done.

With the structure that I'm thinking of, the same tables will include "up to the minute" sheets.  Some kind of function can be added to say "where Level is less than or equal to 4." to give that snapshot.

Thanks again!


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## Thanee (Aug 10, 2009)

The first site, I meant, is www.rpol.net; the other is a german D&D site, which is probably not very useful to you, but you can also check out www.groovygamers.com, which also uses the SMF software and a similar forum structure (just not the aliases, but the principle of those should be clear, anyways).

And yes, I think it is a lot better to have one subforum with talk-threads and play-threads (and all the other useful threads; my own game here, for example, employs five different threads, the standard IC and OOC plus a special thread for Combat Declarations, a Campaign Info thread, and the Rogue's Gallery, of course) inside _for each game_, then to have all talk-threads and all play-threads inside a single subforum each.

Bye
Thanee


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 10, 2009)

Thanee said:


> The first site, I meant, is RolePlay onLine! Welcome to RPoL; the other is a german D&D site, which is probably not very useful to you, but you can also check out www.groovygamers.com, which also uses the SMF software and a similar forum structure (just not the aliases, but the principle of those should be clear, anyways).




I'll take a look at these when I have the opportunity.



Thanee said:


> And yes, I think it is a lot better to have one subforum with talk-threads and play-threads (and all the other useful threads; my own game here, for example, employs five different threads, the standard IC and OOC plus a special thread for Combat Declarations, a Campaign Info thread, and the Rogue's Gallery, of course) inside _for each game_, then to have all talk-threads and all play-threads inside a single subforum each.




Can you point me to these threads?  


Would it be more helpful to have the IC and OOC together?  So long as they are clearly blocked off so you know what you're looking at.

The Combat Declarations would be something that the user would automatically do in the proposed pbp Forum.  They would be submitting their turns to the server and the results would appear below the post.

Campaign Info.  I can see this one being very helpful.  How is this one administered by you?  Do you put in information regarding certain elements?  Do the player's comment it (a "living" document if you will)?  Both? 

Rogue's Gallery.  Can you give an example of this or more detail?  I like the idea, and have some thoughts of how I'd do it, but I'd like to see what you're doing.  

The last two give me an idea of a "journal" or "checklist" of sorts.  Regarding a "Rogue's Gallery", it would be kind of a sandbox where the players can add information.  Say you gather information on a mini boss.  The information can be added to a "page" that stores all the information.  If the players wanted to make some notes ("I think the Shaman is poisoning the lake above the city and it is affecting the residents"), it can be added so that everyone can see them.  This may be off target though.

Again, thanks!


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## Thanee (Aug 10, 2009)

Here's a link to the OOC-thread of my campaign here, it includes all other links at the bottom.

But that is not an example of what I meant with the threads in one forum. 

That you can see in the two forums linked above (one subforum per game, so you always have all threads for a particular game in one place; using announcements and stickies to order them; i.e. keep IC thread on top at all times).

Bye
Thanee


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## CaBaNa (Aug 10, 2009)

rogue's gallery is cool, especially if it includes a hall of fame.


both could be part of that "everyone can edit this" page


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanee said:


> Here's a link to the OOC-thread of my campaign here, it includes all other links at the bottom.
> 
> But that is not an example of what I meant with the threads in one forum.
> 
> ...




Let me restate to make sure that I'm on the right path.

What you want is instead of a bunch of posts inside one thread, you want the whole forum to create multiple threads and, within the threads, have interaction with the players.  In short, you want your own board.

This is actually the intent.  A person should not be limited to one single thread.  They should be able to set up their own world!

Essentially, a GM would be given their own forum to work under.  Don't get me wrong, you'll still have other pbp games going on at the same time.  Here's an example.

PBP Forums

Uncle Jimbo's Eberron
Star*Drive PL 6
Introduction 
Character Creation
Episode 1:  Black Starfall
OOC Only

Episode 2:  Red Starrise

LotR:  The Dawn of Man

If I'm way off base, let me know.  However, this was my intent.  There's more to the base plan, but this is the basics.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 11, 2009)

CaBaNa said:


> rogue's gallery is cool, especially if it includes a hall of fame.
> 
> 
> both could be part of that "everyone can edit this" page




I'm not entirely sure how I'd work the "Rogue's Gallery", but something that would work for the characters would be their own "subforum".  Essentially, the character would be created and then posted as an entry under the campaign.

Something like:

Star*Drive PL 6

Introduction
Characters
Zhaolin Zhou (Tech Spec)
Jack "Cueball" Hardin (Combat Spec)


Some kind of "leveling" mechanism would be built into that special kind of thread to allow advancement, notes, etc.


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## Thanee (Aug 11, 2009)

tdewitt274 said:


> If I'm way off base, let me know.  However, this was my intent.  There's more to the base plan, but this is the basics.




Sounds about right to me. 

Bye
Thanee


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 11, 2009)

Thanee said:


> The first site, I meant, is RolePlay onLine! Welcome to RPoL; the other is a german D&D site, which is probably not very useful to you, but you can also check out www.groovygamers.com, which also uses the SMF software and a similar forum structure (just not the aliases, but the principle of those should be clear, anyways).




Thanks for the links!  The RPoL.net is very interesting.  Lots of good stuff in their FAQ regarding administration.

The Groovygamers.com is pretty much, from what I can quickly tell, is just a normal forum.  I may look into the forum software some more for different administration ideas.  

I've been using phpBB and a forum out of a PHP book as a reference so far.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 11, 2009)

OK, let's try a little information gathering.  This thread is seeing a good amount of traffic, I'd like to see what everyone has to say!

What do you NOT like about the pbp system that you're currently using?
What restrictions would you like to overcome?
What enhancements would you like to see?
Is there something that works, but it could work better?
What would you want to get rid of?
Are there items that could be improved?
Are there tools that would make things easier?
What is your least favorite feature/tool?
Is there a feature/tool that you would change the functionality of?

What DO you like about the pbp system you are currently using?
What is your favorite feature/tool?
What makes the current system so special?
What would make the system unbearable if a feature/tool was removed?

Just some things off the top of my head.

I know it's kind of shameless, but feel free to spread the word about this thread.  The more input the better


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## Thanee (Aug 11, 2009)

Yep, RPoL is completely self-coded, while GG uses the SMF forum software.

Bye
Thanee


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## Camelot (Aug 11, 2009)

Dndorks.com has been adding to their rpg tools a bit recently; try checking there for inspiration!

I'll try to answer a few questions with some ideas, but just so you know I'm taking this solely from a D&D 4e point of view!

A die roller is a must, so that the player's can roll right on the forum, and the natural die roll and the modifier can be looked up.  Using Invisible Castle is kind of a pain, although it's better than nothing.

Have a space for information that the players have gathered on their journey that the DM can add to and the players can bounce around ideas on.  I think this will make it so that a DM won't ever have to repeat who an NPC is.

For characters, you're ideas seem to be right on target!  If you want to aim for multiple systems, you have to make it versatile.  You could take the easy route and just make it so that the players post their characters in a normal thread, or if you have the sources and ambition, you can make templates for the more common systems.

Just a few ideas!  My own two cents.  =)  I would like to see this developed, be sure to keep us updated!


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 12, 2009)

Camelot said:


> Dndorks.com has been adding to their rpg tools a bit recently; try checking there for inspiration!



Will do!  Thanks!


Camelot said:


> I'll try to answer a few questions with some ideas, but just so you know I'm taking this solely from a D&D 4e point of view!



Honestly, the systems aren't that different.  Powers are kinda like Feats, Feats are kind like the enhancer (like that give +2 to a skill) Feats of 3.5.  


Camelot said:


> A die roller is a must, so that the player's can roll right on the forum, and the natural die roll and the modifier can be looked up.  Using Invisible Castle is kind of a pain, although it's better than nothing.



That's the primary feature 


Camelot said:


> Have a space for information that the players have gathered on their journey that the DM can add to and the players can bounce around ideas on.  I think this will make it so that a DM won't ever have to repeat who an NPC is.



I'm a big fan of Wikipedia.  Using BBCode, I think that adding a link to a specific NPC page (or something like that) should be pretty easy.

I'm taking a lot of faith in BBCode.  Each "Game" will have it's own BBCodes that the GM can set up, along with a "Generic List" (swear words, abbreviations, etc).  Something like [Fzoul Chembryl] will link to a "Thread" on Fzoul that people can post about.



Camelot said:


> For characters, you're ideas seem to be right on target!  If you want to aim for multiple systems, you have to make it versatile.  You could take the easy route and just make it so that the players post their characters in a normal thread, or if you have the sources and ambition, you can make templates for the more common systems.



I received a lot of ideas for this type of layout from work.  The form will have all the needed options in a table and everything will lay out pretty generically based on the system chosen by the GM.  

My philosophy, "Work smarter, not harder."


Camelot said:


> Just a few ideas!  My own two cents.  =)  I would like to see this developed, be sure to keep us updated!



And much appreciated!


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Calendar*

I've been thinking about the temporal nature of the pbp Forum and decided that I'll have some kind of a Calendar System.

As previously noted, the posts will need to be temporal in nature.  This is especially true if going into a "turn based initiative" and also when dealing with resting.  The GM can also pass time by adding an "action" that advances the clock.

Here are my questions:

How accurate do you want the calendar to be?  
The Gregorian calendar is a fickle creature.  I won't get into the specifics, but it can be read here.  If a true Leap Year is to be added for a revolution of an uneven amount of days in a year, then I'll need to create some kind of function that will count out time.
If every year is exactly 365 twenty four hour days, then this is not really a concern.

How will you use the calendar?
If the calendar is just used to mark the passing days, there shouldn't be an issue with "going forward."  If the calendar is more complex, then how will bouncing back and forth in time be tracked?

How will special days be represented?
Special days like Thanksgiving in the US is on a variable day in a month (last Thursday).  Will these be necessary or can they be glossed over?

Here's my original thoughts on the Calendar.  This is just one idea that can be used.  I'm open to other suggestions.

The way I see it, different calendars are used in different ways.  For example, the Gregorian Calendar is different from the Faerunian Calendar (360 days with five "special days") which is also different from the Eberron Calendar (which uses an excessive amount of moons for different reasons).

As a result, I'm going to allow the Calendar to be dynamic.  You'll start out with a blank canvas.  

Decide on how many months and give names.  
Add how many days per month (some can have 30, others 20 or even 50).  
Each day is broken to days of the week (Monday, Tuesday, etc.) and named.  
The Hours/Minutes/Seconds will determine the duration of a day.  
Additional days can be added to a month at an irregular interval (ex, February 29th every 4 years).
Each Date can be given a name (ex, 1/1 = New Years Day).

I'm mostly interested in the basic framework at this time.  This piece can be expanded and upgraded at later points without making the core framework invalid.  But they are important questions to ask.

Any thoughts are greatly appreciated!


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Subforums*

I've been thinking about some of the replies with a regard to "subforums".  While actual subforums are easy enough to do, I wanted to toss out the idea of "inclusion".

A little background.  Each User has the option to start a game (in this case, "Star*Drive PL 6").  At that point, they create their own "Forum" within the overall framework.  The User (now referenced as a GM) will have the ability to create any thread within the forum of their game.  Within the Threads, users can create "Posts" where everyone can see all the action.  

However, these posts are special.  When creating a post, different submission boxes or submission methods are available.  If you enter something into the "In Character" area, the submission shows in both the Thread and the subforum below it ("IC Only").  If entered in the OoC box, it will show up in the thread and "OOC Only" area.  If an IC text is typed and an attack Action is created, the IC and Action will show in the Thread, and the IC will be "IC Only" and attack in "Actions".

Here's an example layout:

PBP Forums

Uncle Jimbo's Eberron
Star*Drive PL 6
Introduction 
Character Creation
Zholin Zhou
Level 1
Level 2
Current

Jack "Cueball" Hardell

Episode 1:  Black Starfall
IC Only
OOC Only
Actions
Personal
GM Area
Campaign Info

Episode 2:  Red Starrise

LotR:  The Dawn of Man

With the appropriate table design, any depth can be added.  Permissions can also be added so that only specific areas are viewable by certain users.  As an example, lurkers can only view the IC Only area.  Players cannot see the "GM Area" and the GM can see all areas except the "Personal" area of a player.  Ideally, this can all be optional and not visible if the GM doesn't want it.

I'd like to hear your feedback on this.  It's mostly brainstorming at this point.  If it doesn't sound like something that would be used, it can be ignored.  If the option is something that may be useful, it warrants review.

Any suggestions are appreciated!


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 15, 2009)

*Combat Maps*

Just wanted to post regarding Combat Maps in the game.  

I'm planning on basing this on some existing code that I did some time ago.  You can see an example here.  This is a basic example, the concept that will be included in the pbp Forum will have database integration.

The concept behind the example is to represent the field of battle.  As you can see, there's a map background, personal "icons" scaled to size for each combatant, an initiative map, a "Current Round" indicator, and a "Dead Pool" for fallen gladiators.

More complex features would be:

Adding a "template" for movement that will show available areas to move.  The user would click on a cell to map out the movement from cell to cell.
Clickable icons that show available options to you (ex, attack, aid, talk, etc).
"Fog of War" for illumination.

Of course, this concept requires a map be created.  Although I have ideas for a different project, there are multiple options available.  For example, an open source SVG image maker called Inkscape is a free utility that could function like a map maker.  Create the map, export as BMP, JPG or PNG and you're ready to go!

I haven't nailed down anything specific for this feature, just going off old ideas.  What kind of features would you like to see?  What features would be useless to you?  

Let me know what you think!

Enjoy


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 19, 2009)

*Die Rolls*

Reading this got me thinking about Dice Rolls.

While the pbp Forum will do the majority of die rolls, there is likely a need for outside of game die rolls.

Here is a die roller that I made some time ago.  While it doesn't store the die rolls, it does have a bit of functionality.

Total Results = shows results and a total
Drop Lowest = Rolls the desired number, but drops the lowest (ex, 4d6, drop lowest)
Wild Die Explode = From the Star Wars RPG, if the last die is a 6, it rolls until the die is no longer a 6.
Hero System = Stun and Body Damage per the Hero System rules.
Designate the number of dice, add a modifier if needed, and click on the die that you want to use.

Of course, you'll want to store the die roll somehow.  So, a user account would be created.  Possibly some kind of description is included.  A referral link can be sent by the GM for the players to roll their results (to store in the GM account and player account).

What about "edits"?  Should these be allowed?  
Should the player be able to see the result before submission?  
How about "cheating" by revising the post?

There was references to Invisible Castle earlier.  I've never used the service, but I have an idea of what it's about.  
What is the major draw for Invisible Castle?  
How could it be better?  
What kind of dice options would make it more desireable?  
Removing what feature would make it useless to you?

For the most part, the dice will be included with the player's actions.  However, if there are so few sites out there like Invisible Castle, would it be more beneficial to have this functionality available to the public?

As always, comments and suggestions are greatly appreciated!


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## covaithe (Aug 19, 2009)

As far as I know, InvisibleCastle is the only site of its kind (although I'd love to be proven wrong; it does go down sometimes!), i.e. where you can roll dice and get a permalink to the result.  It's also very important that it's searchable, so if you're a player in my game and you just spam rolls until you get a 20, I can catch you on it by searching for rolls under your name.  I would sorely miss the notes field if it weren't there, too.  Campaign and character name are nice, but I could get by without them in a pinch.  

For an in-forum die roller, if players had the ability to edit the post afterwards...  I can't see how that would work with die rolls.  Obviously you don't want them editing the value of the raw die roll itself, but I could see a case being made for editing the modifiers, if it could be done safely.  Can the player edit the post to add another die roll?  Can they delete an old die roll that they belatedly realized was unneeded?  How would the forum tell the difference between adding a new die roll and editing the modifiers on the old one?  

One die rolling function that IC doesn't provide that I'd like is the ability to do attack and damage rolls for 4e area attacks, where you roll one attack roll, say 1d20+5, for each target of the attack, but everyone that gets hit takes the same damage.  In IC, I either have to make 2 rolls, or do something like this, to attack 3 monsters:  1d20+5;1d20+5;1d20+5;2d6+4.  It would be nice to write, say, 3x1d20+5;2d6+4.  Or 3.times(1d20+5), if you want to get all ruby about it.  Syntax doesn't matter terribly much.  

Another thing that's kind of painful to do in IC is initiative rolls, where you have to type something like 1d20+13;1d20+16;1d20+12;1d20+15;1d20+15;1d20+13;1d20+14.  I don't have any good ideas what to do about that, though.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 20, 2009)

covaithe said:


> It's also very important that it's searchable, so if you're a player in my game and you just spam rolls until you get a 20, I can catch you on it by searching for rolls under your name.




So, if this was assigned to a GM/Game profile, the GM could look up any rolls for a given PC?  The GM/Game Profile would be the "bucket", the rolls being the stones, and the PC being the "tosser".  The PC would also be able to see what dice he threw, but only his/her rolls.



covaithe said:


> I would sorely miss the notes field if it weren't there, too.  Campaign and character name are nice, but I could get by without them in a pinch.



What do you/they use the notes for?  Is this for "Attack Roll" or "Saving Throw" or "Athletics Skill Check"?  Or is there a larger purpose to the notes?


covaithe said:


> For an in-forum die roller, if players had the ability to edit the post afterwards...  I can't see how that would work with die rolls.  Obviously you don't want them editing the value of the raw die roll itself, but I could see a case being made for editing the modifiers, if it could be done safely.  Can the player edit the post to add another die roll?  Can they delete an old die roll that they belatedly realized was unneeded?  How would the forum tell the difference between adding a new die roll and editing the modifiers on the old one?



I'm still working on the ideas behind the posts, so I can't say right out.  However, the concept of associating die rolls with a post are on the Post ID.  So, if you add any amount of die rolls, they'll show there.  

I was thinking that editing a post will retain the old information while updating the new.  Similar to how a Wiki works that you can "roll back" to a prior version.  The GM would have the option of this.  If they were to edit a post, "remove" the Attack Roll and replace it with a Skill Roll, wouldn't just the modifier be the affected piece?  So, in the end, the Forum should look to see if that Die Type (d4, d20, d100, etc) has been rolled and "latch onto" that one.  

Modifiers normally would calculated at the time of the roll, but does pose an interesting situation.  Maybe allow the GM to modify the modifiers...




covaithe said:


> One die rolling function that IC doesn't provide that I'd like is the ability to do attack and damage rolls for 4e area attacks, where you roll one attack roll, say 1d20+5, for each target of the attack, but everyone that gets hit takes the same damage.  In IC, I either have to make 2 rolls, or do something like this, to attack 3 monsters:  1d20+5;1d20+5;1d20+5;2d6+4.  It would be nice to write, say, 3x1d20+5;2d6+4.  Or 3.times(1d20+5), if you want to get all ruby about it.  Syntax doesn't matter terribly much.



I've modified my Die Roller to compensate for multiple rolls.  So, as in your example, you have Multiple Rolls, Multiple Dice, and a Modifier.  


covaithe said:


> Another thing that's kind of painful to do in IC is initiative rolls, where you have to type something like 1d20+13;1d20+16;1d20+12;1d20+15;1d20+15;1d20+13;1d20+14.  I don't have any good ideas what to do about that, though.




For Initiative, I envision an option where the GM clicks a button that creates the initiative ahead of the combat.  This would reduce on the players having to post links.  Also, the pbp Forum would have all the INI Modifiers available so it can do the actions on the fly.

Thanks for the feedback, it did clarify some things that I hadn't thought of.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 20, 2009)

covaithe said:


> One die rolling function that IC doesn't provide that I'd like is the ability to do attack and damage rolls for 4e area attacks, where you roll one attack roll, say 1d20+5, for each target of the attack, but everyone that gets hit takes the same damage.  In IC, I either have to make 2 rolls, or do something like this, to attack 3 monsters:  1d20+5;1d20+5;1d20+5;2d6+4.  It would be nice to write, say, 3x1d20+5;2d6+4.  Or 3.times(1d20+5), if you want to get all ruby about it.  Syntax doesn't matter terribly much.




I think that this has been addressed.  Of course, I kind of just looked over the functions.  I could be wrong.
Roll Dice
"each – apply X value to all dice
10d10.each(2)] – add 2 to every die roll"


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## covaithe (Aug 20, 2009)

tdewitt274 said:


> What do you/they use the notes for?  Is this for "Attack Roll" or "Saving Throw" or "Athletics Skill Check"?  Or is there a larger purpose to the notes?




You can see my notes usage in my history at IC, here. 

There are two main purposes of the note field for me.  First is just to keep track of which roll is which.  Without something in the note, it would be hard to tell the giant's attack roll vs. Sarenax, from the cambion's attack roll vs. Orelal.  Especially when I'm DMing, I can make many attack rolls in a single post.  Second, I use the notes for anything I want to say about the roll, before actually rolling the virtual dice.  If I'm rolling multiple attacks, I can say which order the rolls apply, before rolling:  e.g., 1d20+5;1d20+5  Note:  scorching burst vs. zombie 1 and troll 2.  If I'm making saving throws against multiple conditions, I can specify which roll goes with which condition.  If there are situational modifiers in play, I can say whether or not the roll includes them, e.g. "includes combat advantage vs. troll".  If I'm rolling against a 10% chance to stabilize a dying PC in 3.5e, I can specify in advance what constitutes a success, e.g. 1d10; Ter-raen stabilizes on a 10.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 20, 2009)

covaithe said:


> You can see my notes usage in my history at IC, here.




Thanks for the clarification and example!  

In my vision, the pbp Forum will include the references that you note in the attack rolls.  For example, multiple attacks in the Forum will allow you to choose the target of each attack.

Ex,
Full Attack +10 vs Orc Chief (+1 Bless)
Full Attack +3 vs Goblin Skirmisher (+2 Flanking, +1 Bless)

However, for an online dice rolling program, I can see how these are helpful.  

Just throwing options out there, but what if a "Target" was available from a list of combatants/PCs that could be chosen and saved with the results?  The GM would add monsters to a campaign and make them "active" for actions.  

The notes would still stay, of course.


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 21, 2009)

*Die Roller*

I've made some modifications to my Die Roller and converted it from JavaScript to PHP (I'm developing this version offline).  This will work similar to the Invisible Castle site. I'll need to make more modifications, so it's a bit away from "release".

As a result, I'm opening the flood gates to requests.  I'll be adding a registration page so the person can store/see the results.  I know there have been posts previous, but I want to start again with a clean slate.

Don't think of limitations, the sky's the limit!

So, what do you want to see?


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## tdewitt274 (Aug 22, 2009)

I've been thinking about the current die roller and it's possible limitations.  So, in an attempt to generate new ideas, I've created a second Die Roller.  This die roller is far from complete (does not generate randoms, no gloss, development mode), but has the basic user interface ready.

Features

Uses a calculator interface, but users can type the results as well.
Supports a more mathematical approach to grouping, using "(" and ")"
Adds additional functions
H = Highest = high()
/H = Remove Highest = remHigh()
L = Lowest = low()
/L = Remove Lowest = remLow()
Exp = Exploding (wild) die = explode()
Her = Hero System = hero()
Avg = Average = avg()
Sum = Sum = sum()


Here are some examples:

If you want 6 rolls of 4d6 and discard the lowest, you would enter 6(remLow(4d6)).

If you want to do multiple rolls with the same modifier (2 rolls of 1d20 + 2), you would enter 2(1d20 + 2).

If you wanted to do multiple dice (for example, a weapon with fire damage and STR damage), you would enter 2d4 + 1d6 + 4.

Don't forget, you can also subtract (like in Alternity):  1d20 - 1d12 -2
Multiply:  2d6 * 3
Divide:  5d6 / 5

Take a look at both and let me know your thoughts.  
Die Roller v1
Die Roller v2a

I'm also looking for any additional comments regarding what you would want to see in a die roller.  Feel free to post any wish you have.


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## KerlanRayne (Aug 26, 2009)

Have you taken a look at Myth Weavers? It's close to many of the things you have described. Here are some of the features: 

Each game is it's own subforum. 
The GM can setup subfolders to organize threads. 
Players can create their own threads but the GM can move or delete them if he wants. 
Dice rolling is done inside the posts with extensive options for modifiers, number of times to roll, etc. 
Once a message containing a roll has been posted it can be edited any way you want, but if the roll is altered in any way a warning is included in the post letting everyone know that it has been tampered with.
They have their own character sheets to keep track of all stats.
There are tags that let you make rolls using info from your associated character sheet. For example you can roll a fort save without looking up the info on your sheet, you can also add situational bonuses on the fly.
There is a tag that lets players put secret messages inside posts that only the GM can see, and vice versa.

I looked through the games and found a random one for you to check out. Here is Eyes of Silver. I don't know anything about the game. 

There is a list of the dice roller options here.

There is also a page simply to try out the BBcode here. It's for testing only and doesn't get posted anywhere. 

Is this of any help?


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## tdewitt274 (Sep 18, 2009)

KerlanRayne said:


> Have you taken a look at Myth Weavers?
> ...
> Is this of any help?




Just got a chance to take a look at this.  They do have some nice features and it looks like they have a similar concept.  I'll have to take a longer look at the site though.

Thanks for the link!


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## Gansk (Sep 20, 2009)

How would immediate actions work when players are posting in "initiative order mode"?


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## tdewitt274 (Sep 23, 2009)

Gansk said:


> How would immediate actions work when players are posting in "initiative order mode"?




Good question!  This can be potentially tricky and should probably provide plenty of options.

Considering the platform, it's difficult to say who is watching at any point in time.  In an ideal setting, the database would determine when there was an action for a person (something that it's already doing) and send an email.  However, that is ideal and would likely be an enhancement at a later point in time.

Any way you look at it, the person taking the action should at least finish their round.  If something adversely affects it, action should be taken after the fact and roll back anything that happened after that point in time.

One way to tackle it is not entirely the most elegent way.  Opportunity Attacks and Reactions are tricky because they may be happening when the person isn't watching the thread.  As a result, the most appropriate action should be taken.  

In either case, an indicator would populate saying that [PersonX] has an action.  The person would have the designated amount of time to react.  If they don't react, it goes onto the next player.  If the next player has not made their action yet, then [PersonX] can still make their action.  If the next player does take their action, then the Opportunity Attack/Reaction is lost.

In 4e, you can attack any one combatant only once.  In 3.x, you can only do so many AoO.  As a result, you may not want to spend that AoO on some peon while the big boss may be coming through.  In other games, you need to pay attention all the time (Monopoly, Cribbage, BattleTech).   So, it's going to depend on the system, and therefore should have some type of setting.  

Maybe this is a personalized setting that follows any time limits established.  

Another option is to declare the conditions that would trigger an Action or Reaction.  "I use Shield if anyone attacks me."  "I attack Bad2 if I threaten him."

Anything I missed?


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## tdewitt274 (Oct 10, 2009)

Hello All!  Just thought I'd pop in and let you know what I've been up to lately.

I've been messing around with the Die Roller option some more.  While I haven't hammered out specifics, I've been trying different technologies to see if there is an ideal way.  I've come to the conclusion that it's going to require multiple angles.

My most recent idea is to do a kind of "Merge" between my two dice generators (see my signature).  I like the aspect of the second die roller (which I never mentioned, but looks a LOT better in FireFox) that I created, but it was missing something.  The dice on the first is extremely convenient, but also lacks functionality.  While I do have the first one "working" by saving posts, the second one did a horrible job at allowing posting.

So, long story short, I've been throwing around the idea of a "Shopping Cart" type die roller.  In a nutshell, it will take the dice icons of the 1st, the buttons of the 2nd, and the "results" of the 1st.  You enter your dice on the same "line" so that they can be easily referenced, deleted or modified.  

For example in 4e, 
You want to roll 4(1d20+5) and 2d6 damage.  You'll first start out by creating a new record (process undefined, but I'm sure it will be some kind of "Start" button) to group everything together.  What you will do next is click the d20 button and assign a modifier of +5.  Add notes if desired.  Then, you will assign (undefined function) damage by choosing the d6 twice (total 2d6).  When finished, you will close out the grouping (undefined, but likely a button).  The results would be:


```
Spell
    Orc Chief: 1d20 + 5
    Grunt 1: 1d20 + 5
    Grunt 3: 1d20 + 5
    Grunt 4: 1d20 + 5
Apply to all
    Damage: 2d6
```

For 3.x example,
Same as above, but would look like


```
Spell
    Orc Chief: 1d20 + 5
    Grunt 1: 1d20 + 5
    Grunt 3: 1d20 + 5
    Grunt 4: 1d20 + 5
Apply to each
    Damage: 2d6
```

The differences between the two are that 2d6 in 4e would give each the same value, where 3.x would give an individual 2d6 to each target.

Of course, this is all theory at this point.  Considering that South Dakota is getting snow right now, I probably won't venture out this weekend so I'll give it a whirl.

I'm interested in hearing your thoughts.  While this is all theory, does it sound like something that would be useful?  Does it sound too complicated?  Is there anything that you would add to the process?  Remove from?

As always, and suggestions are appreciated!


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## tdewitt274 (Oct 10, 2009)

Here's a mockup of the planned die roller.

v3 Mockup

Basically, you click click "New" and then click the dice that you want to appear.  Modify as needed, and then add them to a group and then click "Done".

You can modify additional information off to the right.  This includes adding/removing dice (which could probably be done on the "felt" area as well), adding a Modifier (+, -, *, /), apply Result filters (Drop Lowest, Wild Die, Keep Highest), associate a system (d20, Hero, etc), and add Notes.

At the bottom is a listing of all dice rolls.  You can Modify (which would load the dice settings above) and Delete (self explanitory).

This will likely go through a couple of phases.  The trick is for multiple dice types with different modifiers.  For example, in Altenity you can add and subtract: 1d20 + 1d8 - 1d12 which would be 1d20 + 1d8 + (1d12 * -1) [of course that's not true, it'd be 1d20 - 1d4, but you get the idea].

Any comments or suggestions are appreciated!


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## tdewitt274 (Oct 11, 2009)

Revised the mockup to reflect additional design changes.  Most of the functionality is there, with some enhancements (some of which will be future additions).  See the link in my Signature.


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## tdewitt274 (Oct 24, 2009)

Just thought I'd bump this with some status updates.

I've been working on refinements to the table structure for the pbpForum.  Nothing mind blowing at this point, but may start on some basic pages.

I've been playing "Tiny Aventures" for D&D on Facebook.  While stripped down and nothing like D&D, this seems to be what I'm planning on doing for the combat/character management.  If you haven't played it, the setup is basically bonuses and penalties to ability scores with healing and damage.  Of course, my version would be more complex, but still boils down to an "add and subtract" method.  I'm still sorting this out, but I think I might be close.

The v3 die roller has basic layout.  I'm still working on some functionality, but the basics are there (adding dice to be rolled, modifying dice).

I've also been tossing ideas around for the game table part.  I'm not entirely sure what I want to do there, but I'm hoping for something with SVG (Scalable Vector Graphics).  I have some code that's able to track movement using EcmaScript (essentially JavaScript) and XML to manipulate a Hex.  I haven't revisited this for a square, but it's pretty much the same concept.  I was thinking of something like the Microsoft Surface interfaces, but we'll see.

Anyway, if you have any comments or suggestions, these are always appreciated!

Thanks!


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## Thandren (Oct 27, 2009)

I have created a decent online play by post map software that can be hosted on a web site and I am giving it away as open source.  It's great for RPG PBP combat.

PM Than at

http://www.pbpmap.com


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## zobb (Nov 4, 2009)

Open source ehh. As it stands it's in need of some work (the map bit i mean). The use of maptool,dump,post jp or several other methods look preferable but given a couple of decent coders work could progress. 

Is that open source as a collaborative project or as a download which would need forking?

Where is the link to the source?


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