# Top 25 Sci-Fi movies/tv (1982-present)



## TheLe (Jan 11, 2008)

Entertainment Weekly released their "Top 25 Scifi shows/movies of the last 25 years". Keep in mind that means 1982-today.
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25. V: the Miniseries (1984)
24. Galaxy Quest (1999)
23. Dr. Who (1963-Present)
22. Quantum Leap (1989-1993)
21. Futurama (1999-2003)
20. Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003-2005)
19. Starship Troopers (1997)
18. Heroes (2006-Present)
17. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind  (2004)
16. Total Recall (1990)
15. Firefly / Serenity (2002/2005)
14. Children of Men (2006)
13. The Terminator / Terminator 2 (1984 /1991)
12. Back to the Future (1985)
11. Lost (2004-Present)
10. The Thing (1982)
09. Aliens (1986)
08. Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994)
07. E.T. (1982)
06. Brazil (1985)
05. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan  (1982)
04. X-Files (1993-2002)
03. Blade Runner (1982)
02. Battlestar Galactica (2003-Present)
01. The Matrix (1999)
--------------------------------

I am pretty offended at the list. I have seen most, but not all of them.

-_Battlestar Galactica_ should not be anywhere in the top 10, when compared to the others. It's good in some aspects, but it ain't _that_ good.

-I despise _Heroes_ and would like it off the list, especially considering the last season, but I can see why it is there. Still, I certainly don't think it should be higher than #25. Those other shows on the list are far better.

-I saw _Star Wars Clone Wars_, but I'd hardly consider it worthy of the top 25. That's just pure fanboyism creeping in. It's as if they realized that Star Wars isn't on the list and wanted to somehow sneak it in there.

-_Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_? Really? 

-_Dr. Who_ should be much higher. It is consistently written far better than a number of those listed.

-Where's _Babylon 5_? Where's _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_? Where's _Gattica_?  Since they insist on putting Futurama in the list (which wasn't very good), then where's _Robotech_? Where's _The Iron Giant_? Where's _Akira_?

Oh please.

`Le


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## Crothian (Jan 11, 2008)

Horrible list.


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 11, 2008)

> 14. Children of Men (2006)



Gaaahhh... This is a joke, right? That movie was utter crap. Really, I can't think of one singe redeeming quality of the entire film. 

Galaxy Quest, really? I like Tim Allen as much as anyone but, uh... no.

V should be further up the list.

Firefly should be top ten, at least.

I think Brazil and Sunshine are the only ones I havn't seen. Should I?


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## Mallus (Jan 11, 2008)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> That movie was utter crap. Really, I can't think of one singe redeeming quality of the entire film.



You mean aside from being the most beautifully shot film that year, the harrowing action sequences in the forest and the refugee camp, and the spot-on direction? Other than those?



> I think Brazil and Sunshine are the only ones I havn't seen. Should I?



Yes. Brazil is the comedy version of 1984 and Eternal Sunshine is the best bittersweet romance that Philip K. Dick didn't actually write but probably should have. Wait, what kind of films do you like? If you didn't like Children of Men it's possible that my advice ain't gonna work for you.

re: the list. No Babylon 5 is just wrong. Best small (or big, for that matter) screen space opera every filmed.


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## Jeysie (Jan 11, 2008)

TheLe said:
			
		

> -Where's _Babylon 5_? Where's _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_? Where's _Gattica_?




Hear, hear on all three counts. Especially Babylon 5. Any list of great SF without Babylon 5 in there somewhere is automatically hogwash, IMHO.

Other random thoughts:

* Depending on whether you want to go old school or new school, I'd pick either Star Trek 6: the Undiscovered Country or First Contact to represent the Trek films. (Not that I think STII was bad; I just don't think it's the best Trek film.)

* No Dark City? And I thought The Thirteenth Floor worked better than The Matrix. And as much as I love Back to the Future, I don't think I'd call it science fiction.

* While Next Generation is my sentimental favorite, I think Deep Space Nine turned out better from a literary standpoint.

* So they have Futurama, but not Red Dwarf, the "original" iconic comedic SF series?

Eh. What an utterly weird list. Reads more like a "Best of *popular* scifi" than an actual "Best of scifi" list.

Peace & Luv, Liz


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## Grog (Jan 11, 2008)

TheLe said:
			
		

> -Where's _Babylon 5_? Where's _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_? Where's _Gattica_?



Well, Buffy is fantasy, not sci-fi. I can see why it didn't make the list.

But yeah, the omission of _Babylon 5_ invalidates the entire list, IMO.


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## horacethegrey (Jan 11, 2008)

I have the issue that featured this list in question, so allow me to make some comments on the selections:

- The reason they included _Clone Wars_ was because they didn't want _Return of the Jedi _anywhere on the list, as they think it was the weakest of the Original Trilogy. And to this I must vehemently disagree, as I thought _Jedi_, despite it's faults, was still a great film, and much better than those horrible prequels.

- While they acknowledge the scope and ambition of _Babylon 5_, they admit it's not the easiest series to get into. What with it's overarching story and non episodic structure. Though they do regret not including it on the list.

- _Buffy the Vampire Slayer_ is not scifi.

- _Galaxy Quest_ deserves to be on that list, as it's a flawless satire on _Star Trek_, fandom and scifi in general.

- Say what you will about _The Matrix_ and it's crappy sequels, it still was the most original and groundbreaking scifi film to come out in years. One that started an incredible phenomenon. 

- My only real objection would be _Farscape_'s absence. That was probably the best scifi show I've seen in recent years, and I'm aghast that EW didn't include it (as they gave it rave reviews while it was still airing).

Oh, and one more thing:


			
				TheLe said:
			
		

> then where's Robotech?



 :\ Dude, you're kidding me right?


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jan 12, 2008)

Its Entertainment Weekly.

Really, that just explains it all.


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## Pyrex (Jan 12, 2008)

Grog said:
			
		

> Well, Buffy is fantasy, not sci-fi. I can see why it didn't make the list.




Neither is Heroes.  And arguably Lost.  (so far happenings on the island are far more attributable to magic than super-science...)  But that doesn't seem to matter much to EW.


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## Relique du Madde (Jan 12, 2008)

Matrix as number one?  Sorry, while the concept behind the Matrix and it's special effects deserves mention, that movie sucked. The acting in that movie was on par with the worst scene from SW prequels.


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 12, 2008)

Mallus said:
			
		

> Yes. Brazil is the comedy version of 1984 and Eternal Sunshine is the best bittersweet romance that Philip K. Dick didn't actually write but probably should have. Wait, what kind of films do you like? If you didn't like Children of Men it's possible that my advice ain't gonna work for you.



Heh, I was thinking the same thing. But, because you obviously feel _so strongly_ about Children of Men, I'm gonna have to give it another go. Perhaps I missed something. (If so, I say it the fault of the marketing. As a film hailed as 'the 21st century's _Blade Runner_' it did not live up to the hype.)


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## Villano (Jan 12, 2008)

These mainstream magazine lists are always horrible.  A few years ago, I was flipping through a couple at the dentist's office and one had a top 10 anime and another was a giant monster movie list.  

The anime one listed Akira, Steamboy, and Ninja Scroll (in other words, recent or well-known ones).  The giant monster one was just insane.  While it mentioned King Kong and Godzilla, it also included Jaws (it's a big fish, but I'd hardly call it a "giant monster") and some movie with a slightly-taller-than-the-average-man monster.  It was something really bizarre like The Creature From The Black Lagoon or Frankenstein.  I remember wondering if the writer was on crack.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jan 12, 2008)

Babylon 5 should've been on there instead of Battlestar Galactica. IMO, B5 had much better story and was easier, MUCh easier, to jump in the middle without getting lost..... 

And better story than wondering who's a cylon this week....


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## HeavenShallBurn (Jan 12, 2008)

The list is absolute garbage, most of those don't even count as sci-fi  

25. V: the Miniseries (1984)
24. Galaxy Quest (1999)
23. Dr. Who (1963-Present)
22. Quantum Leap (1989-1993) Might count as sci-fi but not top 25
21. Futurama (1999-2003)
20. Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003-2005) nice cartoon but SW isn't sci-fi
19. Starship Troopers (1997) sci-fi but not top 25
18. Heroes (2006-Present) not even sf
17. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind (2004) garbage though it can count as sci-fi due to themes
16. Total Recall (1990)
15. Firefly / Serenity (2002/2005)
14. Children of Men (2006) doesn't even count as sci-fi and garbage on top of it
13. The Terminator / Terminator 2 (1984 /1991)
12. Back to the Future (1985) not sci-fi
11. Lost (2004-Present) not sci-fi plus a contemptable story
10. The Thing (1982)
09. Aliens (1986)
08. Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994) if any ST gets in it should be DS9 even though I'm tempted to throw it into the sci-fantasy category with SW and WH40K
07. E.T. (1982) not sci-fi and complete drivel on top of it
06. Brazil (1985) not really sci-fi and not very good either
05. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan (1982) see next generation above
04. X-Files (1993-2002) this had as much to do with the occult and supernatural as sci-fi if not more.  Good but not sure it should be on THIS list
03. Blade Runner (1982)
02. Battlestar Galactica (2003-Present) it's sci-fi but if it shows up on this list at all it should be much lower
01. The Matrix (1999)

Where's are the greats of sci-fi?
B5
Red Dwarf
Gattica
Iron Giant (not great but could find a spot)
Farscape

I'm not even sure there have been enough actual sci-fi movies and series in the last twenty-five years to make for much competition in the top 25.  Even though it's my favorite genre I have a hard time populating the list without dipping into the very mediocre.


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## Mean Eyed Cat (Jan 12, 2008)

TheLe said:
			
		

> Since they insist on putting Futurama in the list (which wasn't very good)...




Dude, Futurama should be lower on the list.  All hail Bender!


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## Ed_Laprade (Jan 12, 2008)

horacethegrey said:
			
		

> I have the issue that featured this list in question, so allow me to make some comments on the selections:
> 
> - While they acknowledge the scope and ambition of _Babylon 5_, they admit it's not the easiest series to get into. What with it's overarching story and non episodic structure. Though they do regret not including it on the list.



Um, those are exactly the reasons it _should_ be on the list! Oh, wait, that would mean the masses would have to actually _think!_ Pardon me, my error.


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## ssampier (Jan 12, 2008)

Mallus said:
			
		

> You mean aside from being the most beautifully shot film that year, the harrowing action sequences in the forest and the refugee camp, and the spot-on direction? Other than those?




I didn't care for CoM plot--much--but the cinematography gives me goose-bumps.

_Goodbye Ruby Tuesday, who could hang a name on you?
When you change with ev'ry new day
Still I'm gonna miss you_



			
				Mean Eyed Cat said:
			
		

> Dude, Futurama should be lower on the list.  All hail Bender!




Bite my shiny, metal ass.


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## Mistwell (Jan 12, 2008)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> The list is absolute garbage, most of those don't even count as sci-fi
> 
> 25. V: the Miniseries (1984)
> 24. Galaxy Quest (1999)
> ...




To me, your opinion of what is and is not sci-fi is far more strange than Entertainment Weekly's definition.  Time travel not sci-fi? Star Wars not sci-fi? Aliens not sci-fi? Future settings not sci-fi?


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## Orius (Jan 12, 2008)

That was posted a few days ago, and I remember thinking of it as a huge stinking pile of offal.

X-Files?  Well, I suppose that would be there, but I don't think it deserves 3rd place.  Maybe in the top 10 just because of it's popularity, but I always thought the show was absurd.

Star Trek.  Ok, granted they probably don't want to overdo it on Trek, since there's so much of it. But it's the 800-pound gorilla here, and can't be easily ignored.  At the very least, DS9 belongs on the list; it's the strongest of the modern Treks with great writing and characters, and of all the Trek series, it does more to flesh out the Trek universe.

No Stargate?  The original movie was ok, if a bit forgetable, but Stargate SG-1 at 10 seasons is the one of the longest running Sci-fi series in American television.  Even the mighty ST:TNG didn't last that long.  Surely that's an accoplishment worth mentioning.

And no Babylon 5 is simply criminal.


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## Mean Eyed Cat (Jan 12, 2008)

ssampier said:
			
		

> Bite my shiny, metal ass.




Ah, so you agree with me?  Otherwise this could be offsnsive


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## TwinBahamut (Jan 12, 2008)

No Babylon 5 is indeed criminal.

Also, the complete lack of anything made outside the US or Britain is pretty pathetic. Practically half of anime counts as sci fi, and not a single quality anime series or movie is listed here? At the very least, the combined total of the UC calender Gundam series and movies should qualify, and either Robotech or its major component Macross and its sequels.

If Tim Allen parody movies like Galaxy Quest qualify, this really is a bad list... I don't agree with half of it.

Also, HeavenShallBurn... I really don't agree with your definition of sci fi. Whatever definition you are using, it is far more restrictive that any I have ever seen before.


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## Darth Shoju (Jan 12, 2008)

TheLe said:
			
		

> -I despise _Heroes_ and would like it off the list, especially considering the last season, but I can see why it is there. Still, I certainly don't think it should be higher than #25. Those other shows on the list are far better.




Starship Troopers is better? I don't think so. Same thing for V. I rented that a few years ago and my friend and I watched it in one sitting. We felt that time and nostalgia had done a lot of favours for that series.



			
				TheLe said:
			
		

> -I saw _Star Wars Clone Wars_, but I'd hardly consider it worthy of the top 25. That's just pure fanboyism creeping in. It's as if they realized that Star Wars isn't on the list and wanted to somehow sneak it in there.




I'd say it is fine where it is. It was better than any of the prequel films (not that that is saying much).



			
				TheLe said:
			
		

> -_Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_? Really?




Well it was a good movie. Not sure it belongs on the list.



			
				TheLe said:
			
		

> -Dr. Who should be much higher. It is consistently written far better than a number of those listed.




I haven't seen a lot of it, but I'd agree. It's an icon.



			
				TheLe said:
			
		

> -Where's _Babylon 5_?




Agreed. That should have been top 5 at least.



			
				TheLe said:
			
		

> Since they insist on putting Futurama in the list (which wasn't very good)




Futurama not good? I guess I'll just have to say I very much disagree. Although I doubt I would have thought to put it on a top 25 sci-fi list.


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## trancejeremy (Jan 12, 2008)

Hmmmm.  

Dark City should really be on it. 

I really hated the Matrix on several levels, but given it's huge popularity, I guess it should be on the list. 

I'm not an anime fan, but Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop should really be on the list.  And so should Red Dwarf


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## Thanee (Jan 12, 2008)

The Matrix (the movie, singular) was one of the best movies at all at its time IMHO, definitely belongs into the Top10 there.

Bye
Thanee


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## TheLe (Jan 12, 2008)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Hmmmm.
> 
> Dark City should really be on it.
> 
> ...




Just thank your lucky stars that EW was smart enough to leave Matrix 2 and Matrix 3 off of the list.

*shiver*

~Le


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 12, 2008)

Thanee said:
			
		

> The Matrix (the movie, singular) was one of the best movies at all at its time IMHO, definitely belongs into the Top10 there.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee



Agreed. As a stand alone experience The Matrix was top notch. It was the sequels that made it a mess.


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## Darkwolf71 (Jan 12, 2008)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> I'm not an anime fan, but Ghost in the Shell and Cowboy Bebop should really be on the list.  And so should Red Dwarf



As much as I love Cowboy Bebop, I don't know that it's 'Top 25' material. Ghost in the Shell, absolutely. I could go of on an anime tangent, but I'll restrain myself.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jan 12, 2008)

I guess they figured that anime deserves it's own category....

And thinking is considered criminal here in the US.... considering how much they want to spoon-feed us stuff as opposed to making our brains actually WORK for a change....


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## Mistwell (Jan 12, 2008)

Personally, I don't think any animation belongs on the list (and if it did, it would probably be Miyazaki, and not Cowboy Friggen Bebop).  This feels like a live-action type list, and animation should be on a separate list much like it is for things like Academy Awards.

Most of the list I agree with, though I would change the order.  Matrix, as a stand alone, absolutely belongs on the list.  As does Battlestar Galactica, and a Star Trek of some sort.  These are things that changed Sci-Fi on TV or movies in a dramatic way for the long term.  I'd have done either Lost or Heroes, as those (as a set) have also dramatically changed sci-fi on TV. Back to the Future, E.T., and Bladerunner also had a massive impact on the industry.

Dark City, 13th floor, and Gattaca, while all fine movies, did not leave a lasting impression on the hearts and minds of people regarding Sci-Fi.  For many, they were good but relatively forgettable (or not seen at all, actually).


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## Fast Learner (Jan 12, 2008)

It just goes to show how hard it would be to make such a list that would satisfy a large number of people. _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_ is one of my top 5 films ever, _Galaxy Quest_ is truly excellent, while _Red Dwarf_ leaves me completely cold and _Gattaca_ was barely watchable.


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## TwinBahamut (Jan 12, 2008)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Personally, I don't think any animation belongs on the list (and if it did, it would probably be Miyazaki, and not Cowboy Friggen Bebop).  This feels like a live-action type list, and animation should be on a separate list much like it is for things like Academy Awards.



Why should animation be kept separate from live action stuff? The Academy Awards comparison isn't a good one at all, since that is nothing but a prejudiced ban on any animation getting "Best Picture" awards based on some stigma that "animation is just for children".

However, I do agree that Cowboy Bebop is not exactly the best title to put on a top 25 list. It is mostly held together by filler and circumstance, and character development and the main plot are both very choppy. I don't think very highly of Ghost in the Shell either.

On the other hand, while some of Miyazaki's films are probably sci-fi, such as two of my favorites, _Nausicaa and the Valley of the Wind_ and _Laputa - Castle in the Sky_, they fit into a very different genre than a lot of the more traditional sci-fi you see on this list. It is an odd conundrum, really... Where does sci-fi end and some other genre begin? Tough to say.

I still vote for the UC Gundam stuff, myself.


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## Meloncov (Jan 13, 2008)

TwinBahamut said:
			
		

> Why should animation be kept separate from live action stuff? The Academy Awards comparison isn't a good one at all, since that is nothing but a prejudiced ban on any animation getting "Best Picture" awards based on some stigma that "animation is just for children".



An animated film has won best picture at least once.


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## WayneLigon (Jan 13, 2008)

A lot of excellent early 80's movies just miss the 25-year cut: The Day After, for example.

The 'ones we left out' article is on the money and a lot of stuff other have mentioned should have been on there as well. Babylon 5 and Buffy/Angel should be there. Iron Giant certainly should. I'd add The Truman Show, Contact, Alien Nation, Buckaroo Banzai.


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## WayneLigon (Jan 13, 2008)

Meloncov said:
			
		

> An animated film has won best picture at least once.




Not yet, at least by the Academy Awards. Disney's _Beauty and the Beast_ was the first animated feature ever nominated for Best Picture, but didn't win. Walt Disney was also given a special Oscar for Snow White, but not Best Picture.


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## Thanee (Jan 13, 2008)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> _Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind_ is one of my top 5 films ever.




Rotten Tomatoes agrees with you, though it is stated, that the movie can hardly be classified as sci-fi. 

Havn't seen it, so no idea myself.

Bye
Thanee


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## Fallen Seraph (Jan 13, 2008)

Yeah that list felt very odd to me.

Also this is one of the first top sci-fi list of the last 25 years, I have seen not to have Blade Runner as number 1.


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## WayneLigon (Jan 13, 2008)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Rotten Tomatoes agrees with you, though it is stated, that the movie can hardly be classified as sci-fi.




Well, it's not Sci-fi in the aliens-invade sense but it involves a machine that doesn't exist today, and the ramifications of it's use. One good definition of science fiction I've seen is that if you have still have a plot if you remove the science fictional element, then it isn't science fiction. The plot would not exist without the machine, so I'd say that makes it a quintessential SF movie.



			
				Fallen Seraph said:
			
		

> Also this is one of the first top sci-fi list of the last 25 years, I have seen not to have Blade Runner as number 1.




1982. It no longer qualifies in 2008


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## GSHamster (Jan 13, 2008)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Rotten Tomatoes agrees with you, though it is stated, that the movie can hardly be classified as sci-fi.
> 
> Havn't seen it, so no idea myself.
> 
> ...




No.  Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is _pure_ science fiction.  In many ways it's more sci-fi than most of the rest of the list.

It just isn't set in space with lasers.


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## Jeysie (Jan 13, 2008)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Fallen Seraph said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Blade Runner is on the list, it's just not number one. Which is fine by me; I always found it overrated. The scenes with Rutger Hauer were excellent, but the rest of it left me rather cold. (I know I'll probably be lynched for this, but that's the way I feel about it.)



			
				Mistwell said:
			
		

> Back to the Future, E.T., and Bladerunner also had a massive impact on the industry.
> 
> Dark City, 13th floor, and Gattaca, while all fine movies, did not leave a lasting impression on the hearts and minds of people regarding Sci-Fi. For many, they were good but relatively forgettable (or not seen at all, actually).




Being good and being popular/big in the industry are two different things. Dark City and Gattaca certainly left an imprint on me, since I found both quite thought-provoking. (The Thirteenth Floor not as much, but I still found it more interesting than The Matrix.)


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## Fallen Seraph (Jan 13, 2008)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> 1982. It no longer qualifies in 2008




Hehe, oh don't be to sure watch they put the Blade Runner: Final Cut on it next, another 25 years of Blade Runner at the top


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## ColonelHardisson (Jan 13, 2008)

GSHamster said:
			
		

> No.  Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is _pure_ science fiction.  In many ways it's more sci-fi than most of the rest of the list.
> 
> It just isn't set in space with lasers.




Exactly. Scifi is a genre of ideas, pure and simple, not just spaceships and aliens.


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## Sir Brennen (Jan 13, 2008)

Gattaca definitely left an impression on me as well. It's an excellent science fiction film, as opposed to being a "sci-fi" movie.

Eternal Sunshine, another favorite movie of mine, treads a fine line between science fiction and being primarily an allegory with science fiction trappings.


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## ColonelHardisson (Jan 13, 2008)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> 12. Back to the Future (1985) not sci-fi




It's absolutely scifi. Again, it's a genre of ideas, and the classic paradox idea of scifi, along with the notion of alternate parallel universes created by such paradoxes (and not the dystopia of the later films; the universe Marty leaves and the one he returns to in the first film may very well not be the same), is scifi at its best.


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## Sir Brennen (Jan 13, 2008)

Part of me thinks Spielberg's "A.I." should be up there as well, even though it was overly long, a grand failed experiment, a beautiful disaster.


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## Tewligan (Jan 13, 2008)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> T
> Iron Giant (not great but could find a spot)



Star Wars isn't scifi, but Iron Giant is? I'm not sure that a lovable cartoon robot with a heart of gold who befriends children and eats cars is really harder scifi than spaceships and blasters...


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## Thanee (Jan 13, 2008)

GSHamster said:
			
		

> It just isn't set in space with lasers.




That's it, probably it. Most folks expect space travel and such when thinking about sci-fi.

Bye
Thanee


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## TheLe (Jan 13, 2008)

I'd also put _Space: Above and Beyond_ on the list well above Battlestar Galactica.

`Le


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## WayneLigon (Jan 13, 2008)

ColonelHardisson said:
			
		

> It's absolutely scifi. Again, it's a genre of ideas, and the classic paradox idea of scifi, along with the notion of alternate parallel universes created by such paradoxes (and not the dystopia of the later films; the universe Marty leaves and the one he returns to in the first film may very well not be the same), is scifi at its best.




Indeed, that was one of the big things I liked about Back to the Future. He leaves the present in the parking lot of Twin Pines Mall and knocks over one of the two trees when he exits in the '50's. When he goes back to the present, it's to the parking lot of _Lone _ Pine Mall.


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## WayneLigon (Jan 13, 2008)

Sir Brennen said:
			
		

> Part of me thinks Spielberg's "A.I." should be up there as well, even though it was overly long, a grand failed experiment, a beautiful disaster.




That's why it shouldn't be up there  It did fail, though the central premise is a wonderful one. They just have to ruin it with the mystical epilogue.


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## Umbran (Jan 13, 2008)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> Star Wars isn't scifi, but Iron Giant is? I'm not sure that a lovable cartoon robot with a heart of gold who befriends children and eats cars is really harder scifi than spaceships and blasters...




Iron Giant is, at its root, a tale about how people react to change in the form of a technology they don't understand or control.

Star Wars, at its root, is a tale about wizards vying for supremacy.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Jan 13, 2008)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Iron Giant is, at its root, a tale about how people react to change in the form of a technology they don't understand or control.
> 
> Star Wars, at its root, is a tale about wizards vying for supremacy.



Umbran hit it on the head.  

Sci-Fi requires that the core of the story be driven by the implications of the technology involved.  Iron Giant for all its whimsy is archetypal sci-fi, it's a story of how changes induced by a poorly understood or controlled technology cause people to react to it.  The story is the technology and the reaction to it.  In Quantum leap the "technology" is simply a placeholder plot-device to drive an episodic comedy-drama.  Star-Wars, Star Trek, are like WH40K in that they are science fantasy.  Star Wars is about the dynastic struggles of groups of wizards with magical swords that just happen to also fly around in space via underdeveloped plot-device tech.  Star Trek is a classic exploration/sea voyage tale using space travel with "technology" as plot device but not a central part of the setting or story.  Heroes is not sci-fi at all, its fantasy of the superhero subgenre.  Children of Men is not a sci-fi, it's a horror-drama. Back to the Future after consideration I'll admit deserves the title sci-fi, whether is deserves a place on the list is debatable but it's sci-fi even if my first inclination is not to grant it that due to the deus ex nature of the technological plot device.  Throwing Lost and X-Files in together, they aren't really sci-fi.  X-Files dealt very little with technology and its implications, and as much with the supernatural and occult as with its signature alien conspiracy that everyone remembers.  Lost is not even marginally sci-fi, it's a drama and the events of the plot do not revolve around technology or questiones derived from it at all.  In fact the events would be far more easily interpreted as magical in nature than being derived from any sort of technology.  E.T despite the alien is not sci-fi, what exactly to classify it as is difficult but I'd put it under drama.  Brazil isn't sci-fi, like 1984 or Brave New World it's nature is political commentary the technology is merely an enabler for the social structure whose existence is the central element of the story.


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## Sir Brennen (Jan 13, 2008)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> Sci-Fi requires that the core of the story be driven by the implications of the technology involved.  [...]  Star Trek is a classic exploration/sea voyage tale using space travel with "technology" as plot device but not a central part of the setting or story.



Iffy on this one. Stripped down to its core premise, you're probably right. But as a television series, there were plenty of episodes which planted it quite squarely in the hard science fiction column. And I also think there's plenty of "soft" science fiction episodes, which examine possible futures subjected to changes in social, psychological or political norms. Therefore, "Brave New World" and "Children of Men" are also most definitely science fiction. Of course, many movies and television episodes mingle the two to some degree, and I personally think the genre is best when it explores both the "hard" and "soft" themes.


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## TwinBahamut (Jan 13, 2008)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> Sci-Fi requires that the core of the story be driven by the implications of the technology involved.



Not really. Science fiction is equally well defined as any kind of story that has advanced or otherwise special technology as part of the setting and/or plot. Whether the technology drives the plot or not is mostly irrelevant. At the very least, that is the definition that I see most widely used.

The problem with saying that Star Wars is not science fiction because it draws its origins from fairy-tales, or that Star Trek draws inspiration from exploration, is that you are falsely claiming that something can only fall into a single genre. Star Wars is both a fairy-tale _and_ science fiction. The science fiction elements make it as different from classic fairy-tales as the fairy-tale elements make it different from classic science fiction. The same can be said for Star Trek.

Is Bladerunner any less of a science fiction story because it is a Film Noir-style detective story that happens to be based in a futuristic setting? Is the Iron Giant any less of a science fiction story because it is a story of a boy encountering a wondrous new friend (which is its own genre, easily)? I say that they are not, and the same logic applies to any thing on that list.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jan 13, 2008)

Jeysie said:
			
		

> Blade Runner is on the list, it's just not number one. Which is fine by me; I always found it overrated. The scenes with Rutger Hauer were excellent, but the rest of it left me rather cold. (I know I'll probably be lynched for this, but that's the way I feel about it.)




I couldn't get into Blade Runner. Haven't tried to watch it since that one time where I was wondering what was going on and all...


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## Darth K'Trava (Jan 13, 2008)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Indeed, that was one of the big things I liked about Back to the Future. He leaves the present in the parking lot of Twin Pines Mall and knocks over one of the two trees when he exits in the '50's. When he goes back to the present, it's to the parking lot of _Lone _ Pine Mall.




Not to mention his parents now well off and more confident (especially his dad!) and Biff now a "lowly" car detailer than being his dad's boss (and an ass). Brother works in an office and not at a fast food joint; sister allowed to have boys call her instead of being forbidden to do so. Mother probably no longer drinks herself into oblivion and also no longer wears stale fashions from the 70s.


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## Jeysie (Jan 14, 2008)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I couldn't get into Blade Runner. Haven't tried to watch it since that one time where I was wondering what was going on and all...




Good, I'm glad I'm not the only one. My impression of the whole thing was that, while a few of the individual scenes were good, the movie as a whole felt confusingly edited together with poor cohesion *between* said scenes. Point A and Point B might have been interesting, but I was pretty lost as to how they were connected for the most part.

Peace & Luv, Liz


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Jan 14, 2008)

_Dark City_ should have been on the list. Wasn't it awarded Best Sci Fi movie by some sci-fi group in the year it came out as well?

_Children of Men_: Well, there was only one aspect of it that left an impression. The long, long single edit at the end of the film. To me, that still doesn't make it a great movie. But that the movie totally inverted the story that it was based on left me with strong ill-will towards the director/producers.


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## Tetsubo (Jan 14, 2008)

Thanee said:
			
		

> The Matrix (the movie, singular) was one of the best movies at all at its time IMHO, definitely belongs into the Top10 there.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




The Matrix was a decent film, if not terribly original nor logical.

But better than Blade Runner? Not in a hundred billion years...


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## Tetsubo (Jan 14, 2008)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Iron Giant is, at its root, a tale about how people react to change in the form of a technology they don't understand or control.
> 
> Star Wars, at its root, is a tale about wizards vying for supremacy.




I always saw both as redemption stories. The idea that a Gun no longer wishes to be a Gun and the Hero reclaiming the Light for humanity...


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## DonTadow (Jan 14, 2008)

Responding to the original OG: I love buffy the vampire slayer but it is by no means sci-fi. i think we make hte mistake of lumping fantasy with scifi and they obviously didn't do that on this list.  

I do love the fact that Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind is on the list. It is pure scifi and its the best kind. The kind where the scifi is used as a device to tell a meaningful story not a device to show special effects.  It is the best movie I"ve seen in the last 5 years as far as overall movies.

I'm not surprised. These lists are picked by non fanboys whom slowly pass the genre and pick and choose little cult stuff here and there. 

Any good list has Dark City and 12 Monkeys.  I just don't think animated shows should be included in these lists.


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## Mistwell (Jan 14, 2008)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> A lot of excellent early 80's movies just miss the 25-year cut: The Day After, for example.
> 
> The 'ones we left out' article is on the money and a lot of stuff other have mentioned should have been on there as well. Babylon 5 and Buffy/Angel should be there. Iron Giant certainly should. I'd add The Truman Show, Contact, Alien Nation, Buckaroo Banzai.




Buffy and Angel are not really sci-fi in my opinion, but fit much better into fantasy.

While I appreciate Buckaroo Banzai for what it is, claiming it's a top 25 sci-fi movie is, in my opinion, a joke.  It's not even a top 50.  It's a cult film, up there below Rocky Horror Picture Show, not a serious sci-fi film.


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## Mistwell (Jan 14, 2008)

TheLe said:
			
		

> I'd also put _Space: Above and Beyond_ on the list well above Battlestar Galactica.
> 
> `Le




I liked the show...but really, as far as impact on the field of sci-fi, it's no comparison.  99% of people never even heard of that show!


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## TheLe (Jan 15, 2008)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I liked the show...but really, as far as impact on the field of sci-fi, it's no comparison.  99% of people never even heard of that show!




How does one measure the "impact on the field of scifi?" Just because many people have not heard of it should not reduce its quality.

`Le


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jan 15, 2008)

Wow, a lotta "no love" for _Children of Men_ when I thought it was perfect Scifi. How do you deal with a terminal illness? How do you deal with a possible way out from that terminal illness?


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## francisca (Jan 15, 2008)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Horrible list.



List like that are a horrible _idea._  They always bring forth the worst cases of Cheeto-huffing, knuckle-dragging, basement dwelling, "ZOMG!  THEY ARE SOOOOO STUPID, THEY DON'T GET TEH AWESOMENESS"-spouting fanboys  (not that there is any of it here), all ranting about how their favorite show isn't represented properly.

They serve no purpose other than generating rancor.


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## Mistwell (Jan 15, 2008)

TheLe said:
			
		

> How does one measure the "impact on the field of scifi?" Just because many people have not heard of it should not reduce its quality.
> 
> `Le




Because we should strive to judge "best" in an objective manner.  Things which are good tend to rise to the top, and things which are bad tend to sink to the bottom.  That is not universally the case, but as a general rule it's true.  And in this case, "Space Above and Beyond" failed to rise to the top.  It did not get the word of mouth necessary to be seen by people, and did not get sufficient viewers to get beyond a single season on a station that was renewing even marginal things at the time.  Since it went off the air, it did not gain word of mouth for DVD sales to be any better than slow-marginal, and gets few reruns (and even those are on cable stations only).  It doesn't even rank as a cult hit in fact.  Objectively speaking, the show was not "the best".


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Jan 15, 2008)

francisca said:
			
		

> List like that are a horrible _idea._  They always bring forth the worst cases of Cheeto-huffing, knuckle-dragging, basement dwelling, "ZOMG!  THEY ARE SOOOOO STUPID, THEY DON'T GET TEH AWESOMENESS"-spouting fanboys  (not that there is any of it here), all ranting about how their favorite show isn't represented properly.
> 
> They serve no purpose other than generating rancor.




Best post of the thread.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Jan 15, 2008)

francisca said:
			
		

> They serve no purpose other than generating rancor.




YOUR POST MAKES ME ANGRY!

Kidding.

THese lists are pretty useful, but they also seem plentiful. There are lots of them. Something about human nature makes us want to do things like itemize lists.


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## Sarigar (Jan 16, 2008)

If we take the list apart we might see why each was chosen.  Trying to fit other show/movies into the list is all personal opinion, as is the list of course, but...

--------------------------------
25. V: the Miniseries (1984) - Amid a sea of comedies, dramas, and Magnum, this show made the networks re-evaluate sci-fi on TV after the original Battlestar Galactica run kinda ruined it.  It had a rabid weekly following, and I can remember my oldest sister and I watching it while the rest of the family wondered what kind of crap we were watching when the aliens started eating rats.  Talk about controversy!
24. Galaxy Quest (1999) - Think of any other spoof movie out there and you think of low budget O.J. flicks with some great one liners, but not its own plot.  Throw in some endearing actors (Sigourney folks!  Miss panties fightin' aliens twenty years prior), good effects, and comedy writing not reliant on the one liners, and this movie comes out near the top of any good comedy top 25, and does belong here.
23. Dr. Who (1963-Present) - Classic.  If you've seen it you know it belongs here and why, although one could make a good argument to have it closer to the top ten.
22. Quantum Leap (1989-1993) - Good science fiction because the story and people make the show, with compelling themes that challenge our notions of the way things were, and often times still are, but shouldn't be.
21. Futurama (1999-2003) - Good show, good parody, good format.  Not the best in any area, but it does deliver.
20. Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003-2005) - I liked this series of shorts, but I'm still trying to figure out why this is here in place of any of the movies???
19. Starship Troopers (1997) - Symbolism, over-the-top characters and story, massive battles between invaders and the invaded (notice which is which), and a fun movie.  Exteme sci-fi at its finest.
18. Heroes (2006-Present) - So far it hasn't changed much of anything that I can tell in the TV business, other than to let the execs know that the superhero crowd is willing to make the jump to the small screen with a good show.  It is interesting for the super-hero crowd to watch to get a 'more realistic' idea of how people would act and react given superpowers.  Definately no spandex, although they are still an attractive bunch.
17. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind  (2004) - Help me out here someone.
16. Total Recall (1990) - Talk about changing your mind!  Instead of just an Ah-nold shoot 'em up with ray guns, this movie had some brains and a message.
15. Firefly / Serenity (2002/2005) - Fandom carries over with its creator.  OK series, watchable movie.  Joss' fans put this on the list for there fervor and tenacity in getting Serenity greenlit, and the show and movie on this list.
14. Children of Men (2006) - Stunning movie, visually and emotionally.  The theme and story seem like you've seen them/read them before, which is probably why some people glossed this one over.  
13. The Terminator / Terminator 2 (1984 /1991) - The apocalypse is caused by our Commondore 64, oh crap!  Computers just started hitting it off in the public sector and someone tells us that automation and reliance on the artificial will be our doom.  Who isn't rooting for the machines just a bit.  That, and "the future is what we make of it" and not set in stone combined years of science fiction thought together in two great flicks.
12. Back to the Future (1985) - Change your future or your past to get the hot girl, family you always wanted, and re-make your dull parents into cool ones!  Where can I get a DeLorean time machine?  Before this, time travel was about changing the world for the betterment of mankind.  BttF personalizes it, making it accessable and fun.
11. Lost (2004-Present) - Just when you have it figured out, bam, you're Lost again.  The use of the internet to keep up interest between seasons was a good example of internet hype working for a show/movie.
10. The Thing (1982) - I love BG in its current format, however the show borrows heavily from Carpenter for its paranoia element.  The setting and the gross-out effects set this movie apart from similar concepts and movies like Invasion of the Body Snatchers.
09. Aliens (1986) - Edge of your seat action and thrills.  Great special effects and timing make even a known threat fresh.  Alien had a synthetic screwing the humans over, but this one gave it a human face for that face hugger.
08. Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994) - The original series set the standard, and DS9 reaped the benefits of TOS and TNG's successes, however TNG paved the way for all successive ST shows, and for a lot of science fiction television as well.  They were serious about the science, about the characters, about continuity, and about the fans.
07. E.T. (1982) - There is a reason this is one of the highest grossing films of all time, but most of us grew up with E.T., or became jaded from flashier, smarter, and hipper movies and shows that came after, but this one gave sci-fi a heart and soul.
06. Brazil (1985) - Still not sure about this movie, I'll have to rewatch it in the near future to see if it affects me more than it did when I was a teenager when it came out.
05. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan  (1982) - ST: TMP didn't start any fires, but Khan reintroduced a classic villain from the show while giving him a doomsday machine en route to his revenge binge on Kirk.  Another good sci-fi movie released in a Star Wars dominated stretch helped establish the genre as a viable medium for good storytelling and profits for the studios.
04. X-Files (1993-2002) - It seems like more than a decade has passed since Mulder and Scully fought aliens and monsters.  It embedded itself in the culture and psyche of fans and detractors so well that it became a phenomenon that transcended cult statis to go mainstream.
03. Blade Runner (1982) - Hypnotic view of the future with so many nuances and takes on what it is to be human.  Violent and beautiful with a dark vision of our future that makes you take notice.
02. Battlestar Galactica (2003-Present) - Everyone laughed at the concept of remaking Battlestar.  Cheesy part 2.  No one is laughing now.  God, man, machine.  Paranoia, survival, redemption.  The fight for humanity isn't always a fight against the toasters.
01. The Matrix (1999) - Philosophy and sci-fi.  Existentialism and kung fu.  Could Neo be anywhere on the list other than at number 1?  Is this for real, or is it part of the Matrix?
--------------------------------


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## Wombat (Jan 17, 2008)

And now with annotations...

--------------------------------
25. V: the Miniseries (1984) -- umm, okay.  Not much more.
24. Galaxy Quest (1999) -- hysterical!  Great movie!  But it only works if you are really into the genre and the scene
23. Dr. Who (1963-Present) -- Forget the costumes and sets, this has been a consistently intelligently written show for decades.
22. Quantum Leap (1989-1993) -- boring
21. Futurama (1999-2003) -- hit & miss
20. Star Wars: Clone Wars (2003-2005) -- Lucas lost it after _Return of the Jedi_...
19. Starship Troopers (1997) -- Bad Heinlein becomes a worse movie
18. Heroes (2006-Present) -- Great characters!  Now about that plot...
17. Eternal Sunshine of the Spotless Mind  (2004) -- haven't seen
16. Total Recall (1990) -- Yuk.  Excrement on a stick.
15. Firefly / Serenity (2002/2005) -- Nope.  Don't like it.  Never will.
14. Children of Men (2006) -- Interesting concept, but not well fleshed out.
13. The Terminator / Terminator 2 (1984 /1991) -- Pretty darn good.
12. Back to the Future (1985) -- Okay-ish.  Not on my top list, but okay.
11. Lost (2004-Present) -- Haven't seen.
10. The Thing (1982) -- Okay-ish.
09. Aliens (1986) -- _Alien_ was better
08. Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994) -- Very, very dated.  ST: DS9 stands up better over time and, realistically, I think they should have given the nod to ST: TOS to be fair
07. E.T. (1982) -- Yuk.  Kewtsy pabalum.
06. Brazil (1985) -- YEAH!  One of the most brilliant black comedies ever filmed!
05. Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan  (1982) -- Very well done, but works best if you already know the original episode
04. X-Files (1993-2002) -- A great show where the last two-three seasons spun utterly out of control
03. Blade Runner (1982) -- Umm, looks pretty.  Can I please, please, _please _get some of the Noir voiceovers back?  The cityscapes get damn boring.
02. Battlestar Galactica (2003-Present) -- The first season was fantastic!  Then it slipped...
01. The Matrix (1999) -- Marginal, at best.
--------------------------------

And where, pray tell, is _Ghostbusters_?


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## Richards (Jan 18, 2008)

Wombat said:
			
		

> 08. Star Trek: The Next Generation (1987-1994) -- Very, very dated.  ST: DS9 stands up better over time and, realistically, I think they should have given the nod to ST: TOS to be fair



But the original series falls outside the "last 25 years" time frame.

Johnathan


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