# How did recharge work?



## Plane Sailing (Mar 6, 2008)

For monster powers that had a recharge number (dragon breath, hobgoblin warcaster staff)

is the recharge roll made

a) at the start of each encounter before the have taken any actions
b) just after they have used the thing up
c) at the end of their action at the same time as saving throws.

Also, with the hobgoblin warcaster that has

recharge x on 4,5,6
recharge y on 5,6
recharge z on 6

Is it a single roll and if you get a 5 you've got x & y available, if you get a 4 you've only got x available - or do you roll the recharge for the staff separately for each function?

Thanks!


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## im_robertb (Mar 6, 2008)

The consensus seems to be that you roll once at the start of the creature's turn, and any power that has the number that comes up is recharged, and available for that action.


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## breschau (Mar 6, 2008)

im_robertb said:
			
		

> The consensus seems to be that you roll once at the start of the creature's turn, and any power that has the number that comes up is recharged, and available for that action.




I've been looking over this and I think I might have something. Most monsters have "Recharge x" listed on their sheet. That's easy, it recharges on a d6 roll (at the end of a round) if the roll meets or beats the recharge number. Recharge 4 means 4 or better on a d6 at the end of a round to see if it recharges. But, there are some monsters with "Recharge 3 4 5 6" listed. I think that's a power that is harder to recharge after each use. The first roll is 3 or better for recharge, the second recharge roll would be on 4 or better, etc. This would keep some of the more powerful abilities from overwhelming the encounter, but still allow them to be used more frequently than a "recharge 6".


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## HeapThaumaturgist (Mar 6, 2008)

The way I played it was:  

4 is 4-6
5 is 5-6
6 is 6

Roll 1d6 at the beginning of creature's action.  If it comes up a 6, everything is recharged at once.

Monster acts.

Etc.

The group found it interesting.  I was hamming it up a little when I ran, saying things like:  "You get the feeling that the monster has a 33.33% chance of being able to do that again this turn ... *roll* ... and it does."

I actually found it more entertaining than tracking dailies and the like for the creatures.

However a LOT goes to the dice in this system.  A lot of pure random 50/50 rolls.  Death, Saves, Recharges.  But it offers entertaining possibilities.  Somebody used a persistent daily on a Hobgoblin and triggered their immediate save ability and there were boos from the audience, but people did find it interesting that they had already built in some special abilities tied to the new save mechanic, making it less than the flat percentile.  Just not as tied to level as, say, level-based abilities.

--fje


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## UngeheuerLich (Mar 6, 2008)

i still wonder what is the reasoning for making it a d6 roll rather than a d20 roll and the strange listing (why 4,5,6 instead of 4+)... i bet there actually is a good reason for that.


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## fafhrd (Mar 6, 2008)

EDIT: It seems that statblocks containing recharges with a single number lower than 6 were merely shorthand by the transcriber.


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## Dalamar (Mar 7, 2008)

I said it when that statblock came up in a similar discussion before, but it bears repeating: I transcribed that statblock from a picture of the back of a DDM card. In other words, all the descriptions were shortened and did not use that layout. 

All full statblocks that we have seen have included all the numbers for recharges that recharge on a roll lower than 6. Also, at least one creature that we have the MM page for, Grell Philosopher IIRC, had the picture of a square with six pips (that is, a six-sider that had rolled a six) instead of a number for its recharge ability; I think that is the reason that all the numbers were listed in the Delve statblocks: because there would be dice symbols on the MM version.


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## fafhrd (Mar 7, 2008)

Ah, I didn't catch that.  I'll correct my erroneous post. Thanks.


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## Intrope (Mar 7, 2008)

UngeheuerLich said:
			
		

> i still wonder what is the reasoning for making it a d6 roll rather than a d20 roll and the strange listing (why 4,5,6 instead of 4+)... i bet there actually is a good reason for that.



 As for listing 4 5 6 rather than 4+: some creatures apparently have their recharges staggered, so that they can't recharge everything all at once. So, a creature might have a recharge 4 and a recharge 5 6; they get something back on 4, 5, or 6--but not both in the same round.


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## Shroomy (Mar 7, 2008)

I have a question about the recharge mechanic and I'm terrible at anything more than simple arithmetic (plus its getting late!), so I'm turning to the board.  In 3.5e, a dragon can breath once every 1d4 rounds, while in 4e, a dragon (at least a black dragon) can breath again if the DM rolls a 5 or 6.  It seems that a 3.5e dragon has a 25% chance to breath again next round, while its 4e counterpart has a 33% chance.  How does this disparity work itself out over time?


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## malraux (Mar 7, 2008)

Shroomy said:
			
		

> I have a question about the recharge mechanic and I'm terrible at anything more than simple arithmetic (plus its getting late!), so I'm turning to the board.  In 3.5e, a dragon can breath once every 1d4 rounds, while in 4e, a dragon (at least a black dragon) can breath again if the DM rolls a 5 or 6.  It seems that a 3.5e dragon has a 25% chance to breath again next round, while its 4e counterpart has a 33% chance.  How does this disparity work itself out over time?



So for 3e: each round has 25% for 4 rounds and is a flat distribution..  So the cumulative chance is 25, 50, 75, 100.

For 4e: each round has a 33% chance, but the distribution is not flat (I forget what the distribution is called).  The cumulative chance is 33, 55, 70, 80, 87, ...  The formula for cumulative chance that the breath weapon has recharged is 1-(2/3)^n where n is the number of rounds.


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## MattCruikshank (Mar 22, 2008)

Actually, I'm feeling like "Recharge" is a terrible word, as it implies that the DM has to do a ton of book-keeping.  For instance, I'm preparing to play the Raiders of Oakhurst, and the Young Black Dragon has a Breath Weapon (recharge 5, 6) and a Cloud of Darkness (recharge 3, 4, 5, 6).

So, if I take the word "recharge" literally, then I should mark that the Dragon hasn't used either of those Powers yet at the beginning of the Encounter.  As she uses them, I tick them off.  At the beginning of her turn, I roll a d6, and if I hit the recharge number on one of her powers, it becomes available again, so I mark it that way.

However, I think there's an opportunity for me to avoid all that book-keeping - I just roll a d6, and look at all of her Powers - the score matches, that Power is available for her this turn.  It's a use-it-or-lose-it opportunity for her.

The first way feels very much like 3E to me, but it implies just as much book-keeping.  The second way feels, maybe less "simulationist" I guess is the word I'd have to say, but then there's basically no book-keeping!

I think I'm going to play it the second way, and hope it doesn't diminish the play for the Adventure, or for the Players.  'Cause it's sure as hell easier on the DM.

If I roll a 4, she can do Cloud of Darkness that turn.  If I roll a 5, she can do Cloud of Darkness or use her Breath Weapon.  Very, very easy.


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## FadedC (Mar 22, 2008)

MattCruikshank said:
			
		

> Actually, I'm feeling like "Recharge" is a terrible word, as it implies that the DM has to do a ton of book-keeping.  For instance, I'm preparing to play the Raiders of Oakhurst, and the Young Black Dragon has a Breath Weapon (recharge 5, 6) and a Cloud of Darkness (recharge 3, 4, 5, 6).
> 
> So, if I take the word "recharge" literally, then I should mark that the Dragon hasn't used either of those Powers yet at the beginning of the Encounter.  As she uses them, I tick them off.  At the beginning of her turn, I roll a d6, and if I hit the recharge number on one of her powers, it becomes available again, so I mark it that way.
> 
> ...




It does have the potential to weaken monsters quite a bit though by not letting it start out with it's big special attacks (and some monsters might never be able to use their big attacks). And some monsters have recharge conditions other then a die roll, such as being able to use the power at the start of the fight and then having it recharge when they are bloodied.

Overall I wouldn't think youd' need to write anything down when your only running a single monster such as the black dragon, you should be able to remember what abilities he's used at which ones he hasn't. Might become more confusing though if your running say 5 hobgoblin warcasters though...although the moral of the story might be DON"T run 5 hobgoblin warcasters.


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## Revinor (Mar 22, 2008)

MattCruikshank said:
			
		

> However, I think there's an opportunity for me to avoid all that book-keeping - I just roll a d6, and look at all of her Powers - the score matches, that Power is available for her this turn.  It's a use-it-or-lose-it opportunity for her.




Could lead to quite comic effects when dragon tries to breath fire to impress the party and makes 'cough, cough, excuse me' and then tries again... and again... and then 'What about Cloud of Darkness, it will still put you in awe, won't it?'.

4th edition is not really about less bookkeeping. It still has hp which you have to add up for every petty monster (except for super cool low level minions). It has a plethora of effects you have to remember to save against every round. What has changed in 4th edition is that all those effects are stateless - you don't have to keep track of durations. No more 'dazed for 5 rounds', it will be 'dazed until save'. It doesn't matter if you are already dazed for 10 rounds, or just got it last round - effect works the same.

Same goes for encounter abilities/recharges. You need small check box on the monster stat card marked with pencil and you erase it on recharge. Important thing is that you don't have to keep track of "7 rounds till monster can use this ability again" - which is a real saving in 4th edition compared to previous ones.

Unless we are completely mistaken and your roll recharge only after using ability and if you fail, bad luck, it is gone for encounter, if it succeeds, then you just don't use up ability.


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## xechnao (Mar 22, 2008)

MattCruikshank said:
			
		

> However, I think there's an opportunity for me to avoid all that book-keeping - I just roll a d6, and look at all of her Powers - the score matches, that Power is available for her this turn.  It's a use-it-or-lose-it opportunity for her.




IMO they should have gone this route regarding PC x encounter powers too. For example when in melee a fighter may opt to roll for his special melee x encounter power to see if the power he wants to use is available.

A dice roll chart could be like 1 unavailable, 2 available at -2 penalty, 3 at -1, 4 normal power, 5 +1, 6 +2.

And an Optional Rule: Opponent feints could be used to reverse the modifier one gets. For this reason one may opt to lower the efficiency of his roll -for example even if he rolls a 6 he may choose to go with 4.


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