# What alignment would Riddick be?



## TwilightWhisper (Jun 28, 2004)

<Title>


----------



## Dark Jezter (Jun 28, 2004)

Although I usually avoid alignment threads, I'd say chaotic neutral.


----------



## soulforge (Jun 28, 2004)

chaotic-neutral


----------



## TheFan (Jun 28, 2004)

TwilightWhisper said:
			
		

> <Title>




"'Good' implies altruism, respect for life, and a concern for the dignity of sentient beings..." --- Nope.

"People who are neutral with respect to good and evil have compunctions against killing the innocent but lack the commitment too make sacrifices to protect or help others..." --- Closer.

"'Evil' implies hurting, oppressing, and killing others. Some evil creatures simply have no compassion for others and kill without qualms if doing so is convenient." --- Bingo.

Likewise:

"'Law' implies honor, trustworthiness, obedience to authority..." --- Nope.

"'Chaos' implies freedom, adaptability, and flexibility." --- Perhaps.

"Someone who is neutral with respet to law and chaos has a normal respect for authority and feels neither a compulsion to obey nor a compulsion to rebel." --- Yup.

Therefore, I'd say he's Neutral Evil, though a very good example of how a neutral evil character can still be heroic.


----------



## MDSnowman (Jun 28, 2004)

Another Vote for Chaotic Neutral (with the ocasional evil tendencies)


----------



## Wormwood (Jun 28, 2004)

[edit: wow, I can be a jerk when I'm sleepy!]

I didn't care for the film...let's just leave it at that.


----------



## Sejs (Jun 28, 2004)

Chaotic Neutral, having been leaning more toward Chaotic Evil in his past.


----------



## Dirigible (Jun 28, 2004)

Lawful Diesel.


----------



## frankthedm (Jun 28, 2004)

From the evidence, Neutral Evil.


----------



## Sejs (Jun 28, 2004)

> Lawful Diesel.




Interesting.  Personally I was leaning more toward Vin Neutral, myself.


----------



## argo (Jun 28, 2004)

Chaotic Evil

Remember, just because most of the guys he kills in the movie happen to be evil doesn't make him not-evil.  He just happens to be too busy toppling an interstelar empire at the moment to engage in another one of his crime sprees.  Except for Kira and the priest he displays a total contempt for the life of every other human in the movie.  The man is boderline sociopathic.  More inportantly he kills for puerly selfish reasons: for pleasure, to take what he wants, and (most of all) to establish his dominance over anyone else around him ("its an animal thing").

Likewise he posesses more than a simple disregard for authority, he completly loathes it.  And his decision making process is... haphazard at best (he agrees to let the Necromongers take him to their stronghold because "its been a long time since I smelled beautiful"?!?)

I say Riddick is a damn fine example of how to play a chaotic evil PC who *isn't* a mentally unhinged serial-killer.


----------



## frankthedm (Jun 28, 2004)

argo said:
			
		

> Chaotic Evil
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I am reserving whether defining him as chaotic until it he shows how well he handles his new "position"


----------



## ThaneCawdor (Jun 28, 2004)

While initialy CE (Pre-Pitch Black) in Pitch Black he actually developed a conscience and understanding of self sacrifice (witness his plaintive "it wasnt supposed to be her" (or something to that affect) when Carolyn died.
And then the fact that he ran away from civilization to PROTECT Kira before the start of Chronicles, he would be CN by then (still with some CE tendancies). He valued some lives-even enough to discomfort himself, though he valued freedom and survival more than law and order (while still willing to USE the system against itself).
As for where he goes next-LE? N? CG? well have to see the next movie.


----------



## Berandor (Jun 28, 2004)

I used him as a lawful evil NPC after Pitch Black, so there.

Of course, that was mainly so he could become a Fist of Hextor 

ETA: and be a monk 
(I designed him as Half-Orc Ranger/Monk)


----------



## Hand of Evil (Jun 28, 2004)

Pitch Black - Chaotic Evil 
CoR - Neutral Evil 

I think he is on his way to becoming lawful evil (ruler) 

I also think he likes little girls (evil)


----------



## DmQ (Jun 28, 2004)

argo said:
			
		

> Chaotic Evil
> 
> Remember, just because most of the guys he kills in the movie happen to be evil doesn't make him not-evil.  He just happens to be too busy toppling an interstelar empire at the moment to engage in another one of his crime sprees.  Except for Kira and the priest he displays a total contempt for the life of every other human in the movie.  The man is boderline sociopathic.  More inportantly he kills for puerly selfish reasons: for pleasure, to take what he wants, and (most of all) to establish his dominance over anyone else around him ("its an animal thing").
> 
> ...




I second that...


----------



## Tetsubo (Jun 28, 2004)

I think Riddick is a great example of how the D&D alignement system breaks down. Especially when trying to apply it to a highly complex individual like Riddick. He shows Lawful, Chaotic, Nuetral and Evil tendances throughout the two films. I just don't think you can define him in D&D's alignment structure.


----------



## Morgenstern (Jun 28, 2004)

I'm going with Neutral Evil. He's not a good person, but he does have something of a code of ethics - it's just too self-oriented to be lawful.


----------



## Henry (Jun 28, 2004)

Never seen either film, but it sounds like he's True Neutral with Evil tendencies based on people's descriptions.


----------



## MarauderX (Jun 28, 2004)

CN, definitely.  He's not killing everyone he meets indiscriminately, he kills those threaten him immediately and to get what he is after, which happens to be saving people that he loves.  He lives by his wit and not by others' rules, pushing him into the chaotic catagory and doesn't care about saving every last sole he can, just those he cares about - neutral.


----------



## Zuoken (Jun 28, 2004)

Remember, towards the beginning of the CoR, he did say that all he wanted was to be left alone. The only "evil" thing that I saw him, doing in that movie was going after the priest (but he did at least talk to him). 

I would therefore vote for True Neutral with evil tendancies at the end of CoR, probably a lot closer to Lawful Evil if he accepts what is, pressed upon him at the end.


----------



## Navar (Jun 28, 2004)

Neutral Evil here he is evil, he is into revenge, but he does have a personal code, so he isn't CE.


----------



## DarkCrisis (Jun 28, 2004)

In PB:

He could have went with the Mercs plan to sacrafice a party member.  Riddick said nay although it ws a good plan.

Riddick also saves Jack when the monster was attacking her when he could have kept walking

He planned to leave everyone but went back to help after hearing the Captains plea.

He shows true remorse when the Captain is killed in his stead.

In DF:

He could have easily gotten the upper hand in the 1st battle if he let Jack die

He also later leads the monster away so the Priest and Jack can get to safety.

In CoR: 

He goes into seclusion to prtect Jack

He protects the Priests wife and child just because

He goes allows himself to be caught and taken toa prison planet JUST so he can save Jack/Kira.

He risks his life many times to save her including at the end when he fights the Emperor for her.

I'd say Choatic Neutral.  He goes where the wind blows him.  Does what he needs to survive but wouldn't kill just anyone for the heck of it.  He also protects those he feels are his family/friends.  Seems druidish to me.

He is labeled a murderer but he doesnt seem the person to just kill for the heck of it.  I doubt he murdered innocents.  Perhaps it all started with a bar fight or something?


----------



## Sejs (Jun 28, 2004)

From the material we've been shown, he used to be quite the monster.  

It's the events that took place in Pitch Black that started to turn him around - Riddick's avoided having anyone rely on him in the past, but the crash in PB forced the issue.  He didn't have a choice; without him, everyone there was going to die.  Normally he would have just left them to their fate and not thought twice about it, but some of the people there endeared themselves to him.  The Imam who was open with him and treated him like he was a fellow human being, rather than just being afraid of Riddick.  Jack, who looked up to him, and in whom he saw a sort of reflection of his own past.  Carolyn, who he grudgingly admired for her flat-out refusal to just give up and let everyone be killed.


In context, really, the two films give a pretty good example of what sort of things can lead up to a character undergoing an alignment change.  At the beginging, he's evil.  Downright, dyed-in-the-wool evil.  And in another situation he would have walked away and not looked back - taken care of Number 1 and left it at that.  But everything that happened really made him start to look at things in a different light.  It really culminates in the begining of CoR, when we find out that he's gone into hiding for the last five years in an effort to keep the people he cares about safe from the effects of being associated with him.


----------



## Privateer (Jun 29, 2004)

An interesting arguement I find in this thread is "he's not CE because he cares for someone" and "he's not chaotic because he had a personal code."  A CG person can hate someone just as well as a CE can care -- it's not as normal for it to happen, but that one human emotion wouldn't move a CE to CN.  Also, a personal code does not a lawful person make.  Robin Hood had a code of sorts, but most agree he was CG.  

Having someone you care about, and having a slight code of morals doesn't make you not CE, it makes you CE with a personality -- instead of the typical depiction of CE, a crazed psychopathic killer who eats babies and a side of puppy steaks with cute kitten sauce.


----------



## Acid_crash (Jun 29, 2004)

Diesel Neutral, Vin Evil


----------



## Felix (Jun 29, 2004)

Chaotic Evil

Just because he's the ruler at the end of the film doesn't mean he immediately becomes Lawful; at every turn he is trying to remain free and unbound by the Law. Unfortunately, at the end of the film, he finds himself in charge of the Law, and doesn't know what to do about it. Chaotic.

We don't know what happened before Pitch Black, even though he eludes to being sent into the worst slams in the universe... but then he gets sent to the slam again in Chronicles, and it wasn't because he did something terribly Evil, so it's possible that his previous offences were similar to his offences in Chronicles: he killed when people they messed with him. Similarly, nowhere do we see his enjoyment of killing. It seems like a business to him... something that must be done that he has gotten good at to let him survive... shoot, he's been hunted since he was a little Furion boy, so its no wonder he has developed some incredible survival/killing instincts. So, he doesn't enjoy the kill, and does not kill without reason. These definitly swing him over to the Neutral section of the G-E axis.

Chaotic Neutral, without a doubt.


----------



## Vraille Darkfang (Jun 29, 2004)

Having just seen the movie yesterday (and my wife asking the same question the moment the credits rolled).  I figure I'd chime in.

First, I haven't seen Pitch Black, so I'll confine my comments to The Chronicles of Riddick.

I'd call him CN with both good & evil tendincies.  He's VERY independant the entire film, caring little for any of the laws of any of the people he comes across.  Personal freedom & choice is his MO the entire film.  He's Chaotic, to say the least.

He also kills just for the fun of it, seems to take delight in the suffering of other (particullarly in the beginning of the film).  Yet, by the end, he displays an inordinate amount of concern, just not for those he knew (kira, the priest), but for those he barely knows.  Ie. the preists kid & wife, the elemental, even some of the prisoners he tried to escape Cremetoria with.

At the start of the film, I'd say he was CN with evil tendencies.  By the end, I'd go with CN with good tendencies. Perhaps use Often Chaotic Neutral.

Riddick does acts of both good & evil.  He is undecided, his alignment is undergoing transiton between good & evil, yet always seems to drift back to Nuetrality.  If you are going to try to confine Riddick within the defintions of D&D's alignment system, your best bet is CN with Evil/Good tendicies.

In other words, don't pidgeon hole the man.  (By the way, I was surprised by the movie, much better than I thought it'd be).  The necrons would make a cool LE empire to threaten an entire campaign world.

Vraille Darkfang


----------



## Aaron L (Jun 29, 2004)

He's pretty clearly the definition of Chaotic Neutral to me.  He wants to be left alone and will kill you if you mess with him.  He won't seek you out to kill you, he doesn't lay awake at night imagining killing people for fun, we wants to be left alone to be free.  I could go with him being Chaotic Evil pre and beginning of Pitch Black, and I loved PB as a study of an evil man becoming something more.


----------



## argo (Jun 29, 2004)

Just because Riddick manages to feel the barest ammount of emotion for a couple of people he knows personally does not make him any less evil.  Evil guys can have pets too ya know   

I also don't buy that he is non-evil because he mostly kills people who are threatening him.  Bad things happen to Bad People.  Would Riddick have every prision in the galaxy willing to pay to house him if he wern't such a bad guy already?  He gets himself into most of the tight spots in the movie.  We are told the the Lord Marshal wants to kill all Furions but the Lord Marshal doesn't know that Riddick is a Furion until Riddick himself gets the Marshal's attention.  I think this all falls under the category of Looking For Trouble.   

And I strongly disagree with the whole "Riddick performed a good act when he left for five years to protect kira and the priest".  That was NOT a noble act of self sacrifice.  IMHO he left because he couldn't hack living on a civalized world/being a father figure (and possibly because he might have a thing for young girls and had just enough decency to decide that putting some distance between him and kira might be a good idea).  Both kira and the priest were angry with him for leaving and both scoffed at his rather pathetic excuse for why he did it.  Kira was so desprate for a role model that in his absence she tried to reconstruct what she knew of his life and look at how that turned out (not saying things would have been better had he stayed but....).  Leaving was a cowardly act and a major Character Flaw and I think that, for myself at least, recognizing it as such is important to apreicating the character.  Riddick is not perfect, he is a screw up and a failure on many levels, he does not always make the right decision and like many many Bad Men he has an excuse for everything.  We are not always meant to believe everything he says.

For me I think that the defining motivation of the Riddick character is his pride.  He is a man intensely driven by pride ("Furions, defiant to the last").  He is an alpha male's alpha male.  He can barely tolerate being around someone who considers themselves to be badass (the Prison Leader) so long as that person acknowledges his own badasosity.  In the event that someone questions his dominance Riddick feels the overwhelming need to kill that person to establish that he is top dog.  Consider the Necromonger who killed the Priest.  Riddick killed that guy for revenge but was it really an act of devotion to a friend?  A friend Riddick himself was willing to kill just a few hours ago.  A friend who when the space fleet invaded Riddick ran off and left with no way of knowing he could find later in a city being overrun at night (indeed I beilieve it was just chance that Riddick found them and that he protected the wife and kid only because they were hiding in the same alley).  When Riddick confronted the Necro did he try to force the necro to feel remorse, toss off a "this one's for Bob" line?  No, when I watched that scene I got the vibe that it was all about "you broke my stuff.... nobody breaks my stuff".  Similar thing with the prison guards who tried to rape Kira.  If Riddick was really so pissed about them assaulting this special person why didn't he leap in there and kill them all in an instant?  Why first get their attention and then offer them the chance to leave?  Because it was more important for his pride that the (surviving) guards acknowledge that he has a larger manhood and faster car than they do and bow out respectfully.  It was selfish and had nothing to do with the feelings of Kira, only that she was under his protection and therefore off-limits to the smaller dogs.

Don't get me wrong people.  I agree that Riddick is an example of how an evil character can be something more than a target for a hero to knock down.  I think that he is a facinating character and that they managed to pack a suprising ammount of depth into a summer action flick.  It's why I like the movie so much (though I do wish the camerawork durring the fight scenes was better).

But I still think he is evil.


----------



## nameless (Jun 29, 2004)

I say neutral, for a lot of reasons that have already been said. Riddick strikes me as the type of guy who doesn't go looking for trouble... trouble finds him. He's definitely not a nice person by any stretch of the imagination, but he doesn't go out looking to hurt people or even to make his life better at the expense of others. He doesn't feel remorse for killing, but he tends to only kill the bad guys anyways.

My gut instinct also tells me that he is a career criminal by circumstance, not because he is some heinous monster. The only people he did more than threaten without being attacked first were the Necromongers. In both PB and CoR, he used words (threatening and violent as they may have been) to try and dissuade anyone from getting hurt whenever it was an option. That shows me a respect for life. He doesn't take life on a whim, he just doesn't hesitate to kill people when it's necessary, and he doesn't angst about doing what he was forced to do after the fact.

Yes, Chaotic Neutral.


----------

