# Wind Walk is killing my campaign!



## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

Maybe that's a little overstated, but it's killing me as DM.  Anybody got a variant that's a little more...manageable?  I used to only have to prepare for a few locations for a session, now they can be virtually anywhere, and can scout out places virtually unseen.  Way too much work for me.  I hate to just jerk this spell out entirely (and I know the teleports are coming soon), but I'm struggling for ideas.

Thanks!


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## ThoughtfulOwl (Jun 6, 2005)

I have none at the moment, but somebody will surely chime in with one; in the meantime, may I suggest you to run adventures that are heavily objective-driven and tight on time?

If the PCs know that they need to go to Evil Temple A and that the kidnapped princess they want to rescue will be sacrificed to an evil god on midnight if they don't bust into the central chamber in time, they will not want to screw around exploring Mysterious Ruins B. This way, you just plan for Evil Temple A, knowing that the PCs will most likely go straight there.


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## Eccles (Jun 6, 2005)

Underground adventures; can't be wind-powered around tight corners.

High winds above ground; you could easily justify a house rule that being a living cloud during a tornado would hurt.

Take it into accountand (as posted above) just limit the time they have to travel.

Nuke the party with a high speed monster which can tear the cloud-forms apart and keep up with them.

Area effect spells and breath weapons which would force them to 'drop' the spell rather than waiting for a minute. (Which means they wouldn' be able to re-assume Wind Walk later).

Dispel it whilst they're a long way up and then shoot 'em on the way down.


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## Corlon (Jun 6, 2005)

It all depends on the objective.  Generally I just have stat blocks of the creatures they'll be fighting, plus a few more that I can really just throw in at any time, and I make them fight when it seems they would (this is for a campaign where my characters are teleporting across the world multiple times in a  day.)

But if you want them to wander into a map that you have set up, rather than having to make a lot of stuff up on the fly with just a few stat blocks to guide you, I'd go with thoughtful owl in saying just give them reasons to go where you have planned.  It is their choice, but generally saving the princess from the temple of evil is more fun that exploring some ruins and killing some lizardfolk.

As for modifying the spell itself, I'd say don't do it.  If you don't want that kind of mobility, I'd just severely restrict access to or even remove most mobility spells, because  you'll be running into teleports, planeshifts, etc. in the future, and changes in wind walk won't help against these, but small changes in the way your missions are conducted will.


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## Sigurd (Jun 6, 2005)

*The Probs not going away*

Wind walk is a 6th level spell. As your characters get more powerful their sphere of affect gets larger and your work grows.

Try and make your characters understand this. They can go everywhere but if they do you rapidly have to rely on random tables and you _dont_ promise consistency or that everything ties back to the plot.

Discus alternating RPG and board games or something to give you time to make your adventure. Consider alterntating your own adventures with modules. You can fight the spell but another will rapidly take its place.

Consider some teleport attacks against the party now to make sure they know how unbalanced buff and teleport is.

Your wise to think of the whole problem rather than knee jerk on Wind Walk.


S


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## the Jester (Jun 6, 2005)

In order to allow myself prep time for my epic group, we play a low-level halfling game about half the time.  Start a second (1st-level) group and always ask what they're doing in the next high-level game; that combo really helps me out.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

Sigurd said:
			
		

> Consider some teleport attacks against the party now to make sure they know how unbalanced buff and teleport is.



Good idea and I've tried something like this.  Some _Dimension Door_-ing demons and one bad guy that _teleported _ away.  I've compounded my problem by giving them a homemade magic item - a softball-sized stone that carries a _Silence _ spell with it.  I had an evil wizard that was going to theatrically dive out a window as he cast a _Fly _ spell, then come back and bomb them at range.  With perfect timing, they nailed him with the stone as he leapt, but before he could cast.  He augured in spectacularly (if quietly) and a messy dogpile ensued.

One thing I've noticed about these higher-level encounters - they tend to be mismatches and over quickly.  But there's definitely been casualties on both sides.


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## Joshua Randall (Jun 6, 2005)

Instead of trying to nerf their wind walk enabled mobility, make adventures that require it.

* The PCs have to reach the heights of an inhospitable mountain peak, but don't have time or gear to climb it.
* Bad guys on winged mounts are terrorizing the kingdom. Only the wind walking PCs can stop them.

Etc. Don't deprive the PCs of their hard-won abilities (and being able to cast a 6th level spell means you're 13th level at least, so you're doing something right). Instead, give the PCs opportunities to use those abilities for fun adventures.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Jun 6, 2005)

Dispel Magic Glyphs of Warding.


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## Sammael (Jun 6, 2005)

WampusCat43 said:
			
		

> With perfect timing, they nailed him with the stone as he leapt, but before he could cast.



They had a _ready action_ to throw the stone at him as he leapt? Wow. They are psychic as well...


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

I'm just whining about how much work it is for me - now I have to be able to quickly find 'the magic shop owner in Hill's Edge' when they were 500 miles away just a few minutes ago.  Disorganization and laziness on my part, mostly.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

Sammael said:
			
		

> They had a _ready action_ to throw the stone at him as he leapt? Wow. They are psychic as well...




The mage had ended his last turn by moving to the edge of the tower.  The PC's had no idea he was going to jump, they were just trying to keep him from casting a spell on him.  John Elway had his turn right before the mage and threw a touchdown (19 on his throw).    The whole image of this cocky magelord (Lost Empires PrC) doing a swan dive was just too good to pass up.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

Kid Charlemagne said:
			
		

> Dispel Magic Glyphs of Warding.




_That _ could be funny, at least once.  I'll remember that, thanks.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Jun 6, 2005)

WampusCat43 said:
			
		

> _That _ could be funny, at least once.  I'll remember that, thanks.




The great thing about it is that it isn't merely a tactic designed to screw the players on Wind Walk; it's a pretty handy tactic for NPC's to use in general.  The other thing is it puts the PC's in a terrible bind - let's say 6 PC's go through the glyph as it triggers, at least one will get dispelled, on average.  Then the others have to make the decision to take 5 rounds to slowly materialize (meaning whoever got dispelled is likely in big trouble, with many enemies and few targets for them to hit), or instantly end the spell to materialize, landing them in dangerous territory, probably with no other clear, simple way out.

It'll make them think twice, that's for sure.


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## ZuulMoG (Jun 6, 2005)

Um, Wind Walk is a divine spell, and it's 6th level.  Abusing a power like that to go to the 'mall' straight from the dungeon is not likely to earn much favor.  If you haven't been paying much attention to your cleric's relationship with his diety at low levels, bear in mind that doing so now is warranted, not just to jack him out of the easy travel, but also because he's approaching the point in his career where he'll be interacting with the Great Powers.  This is the time when a priest can either be part of the diety's legacy, and end up in the holy writings, or end up tending the flock in Willip.

Fact is, ALL of the PCs in that power group (13th +) are going to attract attention from people who couldn't have cared less about them when they were dungeon-crawling at 5th level.  Fighters are going to be sought out by rebel groups appealing for generals, rangers by backwoods communities that have had a recent 'Drizzit sighting' (Dove Falconhand, anyone?), etc...  Abusing their powers now can greatly damage their reputations.


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## Stalker0 (Jun 6, 2005)

Wampus, I feel your pain, but nerfing this one spell is not going to help...its just going to get worse. The higher the level the more stuff the dm has to prepare. Its bad now, wait till someone actually gets teleport....or gate!!!

I would recommened starting over at a lower level.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

ZuulMoG said:
			
		

> Um, Wind Walk is a divine spell, and it's 6th level.  Abusing a power like that to *go to the 'mall' * straight from the dungeon is not likely to earn much favor.  If you haven't been paying much attention to your cleric's relationship with his diety at low levels, bear in mind that doing so now is warranted, not just to jack him out of the easy travel, but also because he's approaching the point in his career where he'll be interacting with the Great Powers.  This is the time when a priest can either be part of the diety's legacy, and end up in the holy writings, or end up tending the flock in Willip.
> 
> Fact is, ALL of the PCs in that power group (13th +) are going to attract attention from people who couldn't have cared less about them when they were dungeon-crawling at 5th level.  Fighters are going to be sought out by rebel groups appealing for generals, rangers by backwoods communities that have had a recent 'Drizzit sighting' (Dove Falconhand, anyone?), etc...  Abusing their powers now can greatly damage their reputations.




  Good way of putting it.  That's pretty much what they've used it for, although it was also used to approach/ruin an encounter.  All in an afternoon.

They're 11th level, btw, but yes, they are drawing 'attention' of Darkhold.  In fact, they've _severely _ p*ssed them off more than once.  

The PC is a cleric of Tempus, and has done a good job of playing him, but maybe he should get a busy signal once in a while.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 6, 2005)

Stalker0 said:
			
		

> Wampus, I feel your pain, but nerfing this one spell is not going to help...its just going to get worse. The higher the level the more stuff the dm has to prepare. Its bad now, wait till someone actually gets teleport....or gate!!!
> 
> I would recommened starting over at a lower level.




I'm thinking very seriously about this.  I miss those days when one mistake wasn't likely to take a PC down to -27 hp in one shot, which happened last week.  The cleric blew his climb check while trying to get into flanking position on a frost giant with the fighter.  *WHUMP*

"You look up to see brave Wadi's head bouncing down the hillside past you."

"Uh...I stop climbing and cast _Flame Strike_."


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## Hjorimir (Jun 6, 2005)

/shrug

I'm going to get lynched for saying this, but I removed the spell (along with Phantom Steed, Overland Flight, Teleport, etc.) for the same reasons. Granted, my players knew this going into the game.

For me it came down to three points.
1) (Like you) I don't want to have to prepare tons and tons of extra adventure material just in case the players decide to zoom off across the world.
2) I don't like working on content to only have the players bypass everything (makes my world seem too small for my tastes).
3) Long distances move the calendar and I like the idea of characters aging a reasonable amount (I hate seeing 20th level characters at age 21).

Obviously, to remove the spell now would be more like pulling the rug out from underneath your player's feet and that's not really cool on your part. You may want to give them the option to start over or remove the spell(s) and let them decide what they prefer to do.


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## Goolpsy (Jun 6, 2005)

As a DM myself, i dont prepare much... thought about trying it, but it didn't happen yet. Let your fantasy take flight... they suddenly teleport to the shop,  let them witniss a Robbery,  back to the dungeon? well a lizard saw them disappear, he called for reinforcement, all searching the spot.. oops, big encounter. Or he just told the lizard king which happe nt obe a wise sorceror, and they set up a trap.
It doesn't take much time to run through your books for a monster... u can do it while u explain how the place looks like or something...


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 7, 2005)

Too old and anal for that, sadly.  I don't sleep well if I don't feel like I'm prepared.  Thinking about trying Castles and Crusades, just to see if it lightens the load a little.


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## ender_wiggin (Jun 7, 2005)

Here's a semi-related question:

If the PCs choose to go somewhere you don't expect, like across the world, and you're quite unprepared, do you call a short break, or just keep plugging?


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## RandomPrecision (Jun 7, 2005)

ender_wiggin said:
			
		

> Here's a semi-related question:
> 
> If the PCs choose to go somewhere you don't expect, like across the world, and you're quite unprepared, do you call a short break, or just keep plugging?




I'd just keep plugging, but that's kinda how I run the campaign normally.  In D&D terms, I'm definately a sorcerer, not a wizard.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 7, 2005)

To answer your question, since I play in the Forgotten Realms, I've got the whole world at my fingertips.  I just open the book and start describing where they are.  I keep a handful of the mini-encounters from WOTC and other websites to plug in where appropriate.


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## Goolpsy (Jun 7, 2005)

I would (too) keep playing... i mgiht in Certain really really special occations, wanting something "special" or fun,  or at least something that requires abit more thought,  Ask for about 20 sec...


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## Saeviomagy (Jun 8, 2005)

WampusCat43 said:
			
		

> I'm just whining about how much work it is for me - now I have to be able to quickly find 'the magic shop owner in Hill's Edge' when they were 500 miles away just a few minutes ago.  Disorganization and laziness on my part, mostly.




So DON'T TRY. Unless the magic shop owner has some sort of input to the quest currently in progress, or the PC's are asking for something rare and unusual, don't even bother looking him up. If he's not memorable to YOU, he's not memorable to them. Chances are they just wanted to restock on some stuff. I don't see what the problem is. Cover it with "so you head back to town using wind walk, and resupply. It takes you about a day - what did you want?"

Done and done.


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## Thanee (Jun 8, 2005)

> ...a magical wind wafts a wind walker along at up to 600 feet per round (60 mph) with poor maneuverability...




I know, you were probably just exaggerating above, but 500 miles still takes 8-9 hours and not a few minutes (whereas it's instantly with _Teleport_, which is a spell level lower even!).



> You alter the substance of your body to a cloudlike vapor (as the _Gaseous Form_ spell)...




Note, that they can't do much, while they are in this form (see the gaseous form spell)...



> A wind walker can regain its physical form as desired and later resume the cloud form. Each change to and from vaporous form takes 5 rounds...




...and it takes 5 rounds to get out of it!

Now you could be nasty and add in a scene, where they are forced to take action upon arrival and then have them watch in horror, while they slowly turn physical and cannot defend others, who get attacked in the meantime.

Other than that, you could make plots, which are not location-bound. Just put them up wherever the PCs windwalk to. Or, as someone said above, just give them strong enough incentive to actually go to the adventure location.

Bye
Thanee


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## glass (Jun 8, 2005)

WampusCat43 said:
			
		

> I hate to just jerk this spell out entirely (and I know the teleports are coming soon), but I'm struggling for ideas.




Teleport isa 5th level spell, wind walk is 6th. If wind walk is here, teleport should have been around for a while, not just be coming.

Just curious as to whats going on.


glass.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 8, 2005)

glass said:
			
		

> Teleport isa 5th level spell, wind walk is 6th. If wind walk is here, teleport should have been around for a while, not just be coming.
> 
> Just curious as to whats going on.
> 
> glass.




The only arcane caster is 8th-lvl sorcerer/3rd-lvl fighter.  The cleric is 11th.


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 8, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> I know, you were probably just exaggerating above, but 500 miles still takes 8-9 hours and not a few minutes (whereas it's instantly with _Teleport_, which is a spell level lower even!).
> 
> 
> 
> ...




See previous post - they can't cast teleport yet.  They didn't fly 500 miles in one trip, although they covered nearly that much over the course of the day.  The duration of the spell is just too long, combined with the ability to come in and out of it.

They did get caught coming out of it separately once, with some heavy consequences, so they understand that.

We played last night and Tempus delivered a message to the cleric: "If you're going to bother me for spells of such magnitude, I expect body count, not shopping bags!"


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## glass (Jun 8, 2005)

WampusCat43 said:
			
		

> The only arcane caster is 8th-lvl sorcerer/3rd-lvl fighter.  The cleric is 11th.




Ah, I see.


glass.


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## squat45 (Jun 8, 2005)

WampusCat43 said:
			
		

> See previous post - they can't cast teleport yet. They didn't fly 500 miles in one trip, although they covered nearly that much over the course of the day. The duration of the spell is just too long, combined with the ability to come in and out of it.
> 
> They did get caught coming out of it separately once, with some heavy consequences, so they understand that.
> 
> We played last night and Tempus delivered a message to the cleric: "If you're going to bother me for spells of such magnitude, I expect body count, not shopping bags!"




Now this is an excellent way to handle the situation!!! Like it, like it a lot (consider it yonked if needed in my own game... if they ever get to this level...)


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## Kid Charlemagne (Jun 8, 2005)

One thing to do to really make the players think is to really give them reasons to want to get into and out of the "mist" form quickly, tempting them to drop the spell rather than wait five rounds.  If you rigorously enforce that, I think some of the problems go away.


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## calypso15 (Jun 8, 2005)

A couple thoughts:

Play to this:  Make an adventure which REQUIRES Wind Walk to succeed.  They have to be somewhere in 6 hours, and the only way they'll make it is if they Wind Walk, perhaps skipping over some scene of mayhem that would normally draw them.  To mix it up a bit, put in a part which DEFEATS Wind Walk:  a chamber which is protected by a wall of wind.

Or, an underwater dungeon/adventure.  Wind Walk can't go under water.  Maybe they have to do something on the Plane of Water.  *shrug*

Calypso


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## Thanee (Jun 8, 2005)

If he hasn't done so already, you should encourage the sorcerer player to pick up _Dimension Door_. Excellent spell, and then he is not as likely to pick up _Teleport_. 

Bye
Thanee


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## WampusCat43 (Jun 8, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> If he hasn't done so already, you should encourage the sorcerer player to pick up _Dimension Door_. Excellent spell, and then he is not as likely to pick up _Teleport_.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Good thought.  They've seen it in action against them a few times already.


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