# [OOC] Underdogs [a core dnd game][4/4]



## doghead (Jun 22, 2007)

--- CONTENTS ---

Post #1 - Prologue
Post #2 - Character Generation
Post #3 - The Setting - 

--- PROLOGUE ---

-- Meta-view --

This will be a simple game. Mechanically simple. Core (SRD) material only. With one exception (see below), I'm going to try and restrain my desire to tinker with the rules. And conceptually simple. While the setting is a home-brew, it is fairly conventional; your standard vanilla medieval fantasy world. The first few episodes will be more like one shots. From there we will see how we are travelling.

The characters are all grell (half-orcs) from the settlement of Horak-krel. With a little luck, they these should be 'interesting times'. There are 4 slots available. Further details about the setting and character generation can be found below.

-- The GM --

I tend to play a little fast and loose with the rules. Rules are important, they keep the world consistent. But they should remain in the background. For me, the story, the adventure is the main thing. I don't want to get bogged down with mechanical minutiae. Its fine for miniature gaming. But this is a role play game, a theatre of the mind.

Ideally I am looking for players interested in contributing to the development of the setting. The setting is still very much just a rough outline, there are plenty of gaps. Some people are naturally talented at creating settings, I am not one of them. I work best when I have a whole bunch of ideas thrown at me. The end product, I have found, is both more diverse and dynamic.

-- The Players --

*covaithe* playing Assaq, male grell Ranger 4.
*DEFCON1* playing Mogro, male grell Fighter 4.
*Autumn* playing Ershe, male grell Druid 4
* NPC from Oct. 2007 as Autumn is taking breather
*Voda Vosa* playing Adokul, male grell Rogue 4
 * Created by Zadam who went MIA July 2007

[as at 31 July 2007]

-- The Exception --

The d20 combat rules drive me nuts. I find it all so counter intuitive. Instead we will be using Ken Hood's Grim and Gritty Revised Combat Rules. They just make more sense. And they are more interesting. Here is a copy of the GnG rules. It's about 3 pages. You don't need to be intimately familier with the rules, but it is probably a good idea if you read them over at least once.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Jun 22, 2007)

--- CHARACTER GENERATION ---

Underdogs is a half-orc (called grell in this setting) game. The initial characters are all grell from Horak-krel. As a rough guide, and in military terms, I peg new recruits at 1st, ordinary soldiers at about third, veterans at about 6th. Soldiers starting to gain legendary status would be about 9th level. 

Classes in rough order of suitability:
* fighter, ranger, barbarian, druid, rogue.
* bard, monk.
* cleric, wizard, sorcerer.
* paladin
Its not that grell can't be clerics, its just that few chose to. Even fewer chose to practice the arcane arts. As for paladins, they are usually the product of the human religions. More often than not they are the sons of the elite, third children who tradition has forced to join the church but who have no taste for a clerical life. Monks will not be the traditional eastern monk, although the mechanics will be the same. The one exception will be the 'monks weapons', which will be discarded in favour of something more setting appropriate. So none of the lower ranked classes are outside the bounds of possibility. They will just require a little more discussion to make happen.

There are four slots in the game. Acceptance is based on completed characters rather than expressions of interest.

*To start*, I would like to see a concept, the usual stuff - background, description and personality. A paragraph or three will be enough. Once we have that, then we can move on to the mechanics.

-- Mechanics --

Level 4, 32 point buy.
Starting wealth of about 5000 gold in goods. Pick something snazzy. Don't worry too much about mundane gear unless your character wants their own personal item or set. Your characters will have access to the resources of their Fall and Krel depending on the circumstances. 

One thing, plate armour is the province of the nobility.

-- Skills --
I'm not that fussed about class/x-class distinction. If it fits your character's background, take the skill.

Spot and Listen are combined into Perception, Hide and MS are combined into Stealth.

Characters can take an extra 2 skill points per level. That means 8 points at first, and 2 points per level thereafter. You will need them. Keep reading. 

I would like the characters to have some means of contributing to the Fall or earning a living when away from it besides 'adventuring'. A Craft or Profession skill, Handle Animal - whatever you think could be used to earn a few coin. Unskilled labouring is an option, but the wages are terrible.

- Languages -

The dominant tongue in Hella is Dornish. It is also the native tongue of a couple of neighbouring kingdoms. The grell have their own language, called Grell. There is no Common as such. If there is a common tongue, it would be Trader, a blend of the vocabulary and syntax from a number of languages. Jiddian, the language of the mighty Jidda Empire, is the common language of art, learning and diplomacy. The nobility speak it almost exclusively across most of the land.

All characters start with Speak Grell. They may take Write Grell for one point. Speak Dornish and Speak Trader can be taken for one point each. There is no written from of Trader. Otherwise, languages cost 2 points, with Speak and Write separate skills.

--- PLAYER INPUT ---

As part of the character generation process, I'm asking players for their input. Here are the first three 'questions':



> 1) Tell me something about the Kingdom - the royal family, the capitol city, the treatment of the minorities, the architecture. Something like that. Whatever takes your fancy.
> 2) Tell me something about Horak-krel or grell society in general.
> 3) Tell me something about your character's Fall.




OK. Gramatically, they are not questions. You don't have to write an essay, although you can if you really really feel like it. I'll take what you post and work it into the setting information above.

Here are the second three questions:



> 1) What sort of adventures (for want of a better term) would you like to have?
> 2) What does your character dream of doing with his life?
> 3) Describe the 'perfect death' for your character.




doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Jun 22, 2007)

--- CHARACTER GENERATION ---

Underdogs is a half-orc (called grell in this setting) game. The initial characters are all grell from Horak-krel. As a rough guide, and in military terms, I peg new recruits at 1st, ordinary soldiers at about third, veterans at about 6th. Soldiers starting to gain legendary status would be about 9th level. 

Classes in rough order of suitability:
* fighter, ranger, barbarian, druid, rogue.
* bard, monk.
* cleric, wizard, sorcerer.
* paladin
Its not that grell can't be clerics, its just that few chose to. Even fewer chose to practice the arcane arts. As for paladins, they are usually the product of the human religions. More often than not they are the sons of the elite, third children who tradition has forced to join the church but who have no taste for a clerical life. Monks will not be the traditional eastern monk, although the mechanics will be the same. The one exception will be the 'monks weapons', which will be discarded in favour of something more setting appropriate. So none of the lower ranked classes are outside the bounds of possibility. They will just require a little more discussion to make happen.

There are four slots in the game. Acceptance is based on completed characters rather than expressions of interest.

*To start*, I would like to see a concept, the usual stuff - background, description and personality. A paragraph or three will be enough. Once we have that, then we can move on to the mechanics.

-- Mechanics --

Level 4, 32 point buy.
Starting wealth of about 5000 gold in goods. Pick something snazzy. Don't worry too much about mundane gear unless your character wants their own personal item or set. Your characters will have access to the resources of their Fall and Krel depending on the circumstances. 

One thing, plate armour is the province of the nobility.

- Skills -

I'm not that fussed about class/x-class distinction. If it fits your character's background, take the skill.

Spot and Listen are combined into Perception, Hide and MS are combined into Stealth.

Characters can take an extra 2 skill points per level. That means 8 points at first, and 2 points per level thereafter. You will need them. Keep reading. 

I would like the characters to have some means of contributing to the Fall or earning a living when away from it besides 'adventuring'. A Craft or Profession skill, Handle Animal - whatever you think could be used to earn a few coin. Unskilled labouring is an option, but the wages are terrible.

- Languages -

The dominant tongue in Hella is Dornish. It is also the native tongue of a couple of neighbouring kingdoms. The grell have their own language, called Grell. There is no Common as such. If there is a common tongue, it would be Trader, a blend of the vocabulary and syntax from a number of languages. Jiddian, the language of the mighty Jidda Empire, is the common language of art, learning and diplomacy. The nobility speak it almost exclusively across most of the land.

All characters start with Speak Grell. They may take Write Grell for one point. Speak Dornish and Speak Trader can be taken for one point each. There is no written from of Trader. Otherwise, languages cost 2 points, with Speak and Write separate skills.

-- Player Input --

As part of the character generation process, I'm asking players for their input. Here are the first three 'questions':



> 1) Tell me something about the Kingdom - the royal family, the capitol city, the treatment of the minorities, the architecture. Something like that. Whatever takes your fancy.
> 2) Tell me something about Horak-krel or grell society in general.
> 3) Tell me something about your character's Fall.




OK. Gramatically, they are not questions. You don't have to write an essay, although you can if you really really feel like it. I'll take what you post and work it into the setting information above.

Here are the second three questions:



> 1) What sort of adventures (for want of a better term) would you like to have?
> 2) What does your character dream of doing with his life?
> 3) Describe the 'perfect death' for your character.




doghead
aka thotd


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## covaithe (Jun 22, 2007)

Interesting.  I'm not familiar with GnG, but after reading over the attachment I suppose I'd be willing to give it a try.  Intriguing that BAB gives you defense as well as offense. 

I'm thinking about a ranger.  Here's some brainstorming on background:

Assaq was a quiet child, more likely to spend hours sitting motionless observing birds and animals than to play with other children.  The elders of Horak-krel [1], taking notice of this, apprenticed him early to the clan's hunters.  He quickly showed talent at shooting small game, and came to take pride in providing a valuable service to the village.  When he grew to full size, he began to train with martial weapons, and was soon invited to accompany the senior hunters on expeditions to clear away dangerous vermin from the surrounding countryside and, on rare occasions, to raid nearby settlements.  

Now Assaq is a trusted member of the clan's hunters, but still leads a fairly solitary life.  He often volunteers for patrols that take him deep into the surrounding wilderness alone.  He speaks little, preferring patient observation and swift action.  He has great respect for the clan elders, and is perfectly comfortable taking any means necessary in carrying out their instructions.  (LN, I think, though there is an argument to be made for LE.  Assaq can be quite ruthless.)


[1] Elders?  Clan-chiefs?  Shaman?  Whatever the relevant authority figures are.


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## doghead (Jun 22, 2007)

Welcome *Covaithe*. 

I'm glad you took the time to read the GnG material. I hope that we go with it, but I'm not going to push it on people.

Nice concept, it fits in well with the setting. Elders will do nicely for the clan leaders. There is still some work to do on the setting. I'll get back to that later.

LN would defiinately be preferable. I don't see being ruthless as evil. Evil, as I see it involves the sheer delight in inflicting pain suffering and misery on others. 

Which brings me to something I didn't mention. I have difficulty with the idea of playing evil characters. Or perhaps, it would be better to say the game will probably run more easily if the characters have a more altruistic nature.

doghead
aka thotd


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## covaithe (Jun 22, 2007)

Yeah, I definitely don't see Assaq as taking delight in torture or anything like that.  It's more a matter of being perfectly comfortable with kill-or-be-killed, without attaching any moral significance to the killing.  I mentioned LE because some people interpret selfishness as evil.  E.g., lawyers are sometimes considered LE because they work within the rules for selfish gain, even if the rules are immoral.  I kind of like this definition of evil, because it lets evil alignments be much more common in a setting.  But it ain't my setting, so never mind.


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## DEFCON 1 (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm always a fan of simple games, because to me it's the writing of roleplays that is the main interest in a game, not the pages of math needed for character design and combat.

As far as Grim & Gritty... if you are running combat yourself I don't care in the slighest how you go about doing it.  Using G&G, or standard d20, or even just flipping a coin to determine if a character hits... they are all fine with me.  I'll write my flavor text and you can crunch the numbers in the background in whatever way is best for you.  

Here's my halfork concept that I've used previously.  Fighter class - low intelligence & charisma.  Good-hearted but slow.

*MOGRO BARDICAN* – Grell Fighter

*Appearance:* Mogro is actually rather short for a half-orc, only 5'8". However, whatever he loses in height he more than makes up for in girth. Weighing in at 265lbs, the thickness of his chest, arms and legs makes him look almost like a bulldog walking upright. His skin is pale peach tinted with just a hint of green, his long, black hair covers his entire body, and his pronounced canines have been capped with attractive gold bands. If you look straight at him you will notice his lazy right eye, and coupled with his less-than-perfect speech, the overall effect is that he is a man made for fighting and not for diplomacy. However, with the large smile he tends to always wear, Mogro does not necessarily seem the fighting type.

*History:* It is unknown how many generations back the Bardican line has lived in Horak-krel.  All Mogro knows is that his family has been a respected member of the community since he can remember. His father, Malco Bardican, was a soldier in one of the kingdom's mercenary companies, the Flying Serpents.  He spent his days traveling to and from the various hamlets throughout the Hella kingdom, protecting them from the overt and covert threats. His mother, Terga, was the quintessential solder's wife. While Malco would be gone for weeks at a time, she would be at home in Horak-krel raising the family's three children (of which Mogro was second oldest and the only boy). What might be surprising is that despite her husband having left the settlement to earn his keep away from home, Terga was a respected and beloved member of the community. And because of the positive way Terga was regarded in the town and the way she passed this regard onto her children, Mogro learned early on to respect the differences in all people. The Bardicans were well-liked, took an active hand in the settlement's actions, and were always willing to help their fellow grell.

Following in his father's footsteps was always the plan for Mogro. Despite his lack of height, he took to a work ethic that produced a strong, healthy young man. And although he was not as bright as his two sisters, he nonetheless earned the respect of the folks in Horak-krel and the neighboring town due to his feats of physicality. When Mogro reached his majority, Malco had hopes of bringing his son into the Flying Serpents with him, however Mogro's perceived lack of mental acuity made an immediate move into the Serpents an impossibility. Father and son both decided that the best way for Mogro to prove his mettle was to gain experience first as part of the settlement's defenses. Mogro and Malco both hope that with a couple years of hard work defending Horak-krel and learning the basics of a military life, advancement into Serpents will not be far down the road.


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## Fenris (Jun 22, 2007)

I'm always up for an interesting game, consider my hat tossed in. I have read the GnG rules several times and am familiar with them, so a brief re-aquaintence should be fine.

Let me ponder a concept for a bit and I'll pitch it out there.


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## Mellubb (Jun 23, 2007)

I always wanted to try a half-orc rogue please count me in.  As for the rules I will go with wath the group decides is better.


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## ethandrew (Jun 23, 2007)

How do special attacks such as Grappling work in GnG?


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## Fenris (Jun 23, 2007)

I think I'll write up a druid. I was goign to say Shaman, but I think that is an actual class now. But a druid as the mediator of the spirits of nature is how I see him. More to come.


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## Scotley (Jun 23, 2007)

doghead said:
			
		

> --- PROLOGUE ---
> 
> Ever since de-lurking I have been plagued by the desire to run a game. Despite some reservations (I have no great talent as a GM and most of my games have died), I am going to have a go.




Don't sell yourself short. Your a very creative fellow and an engaging DM. I've enjoyed some of your past games very much. If I wasn't busy trying to get a new game of my own going right now I'd jump on this one. Have fun all!


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## doghead (Jun 23, 2007)

*covaithe* Its a reasonable mechanism to allow for more evil alignments. I'm not convinced that I would adopt it, but after our little discussion, I am willing to let you make the call as to which alignment you want for the character. Take the one you feel more appropriate. Then we will see how things go. 

Welcome *Defcon* I like simple games because I am a simple dog. And becoming an old one. Trying to learn new tricks makes my brain hurt. As for GnG, i'm happy to handle the combat mechanics behind the scenes. Basically, you can generate a standard character and I can do a conversion. But there are some notable differences. Primarily, watch your Con. I'll go into this a little later, but basically, Con gives you Soak (like DR), and if your character plans to get up close and personal, Soak is good. I'll raise any other issues when doing any conversion.

Mercenary units. Nice. I was thinking that Hella may recruit grell into its army, although their status would be somewhat lowly. But a few years serving with the army on campaign would be one way gain some fighter levels. Mercenary units are a nice addition. 

Welcome *Fenris*. A Druid is good. I look forward to seeing what you come up with.

Welcome *Mellubb*. A Rogue is good too. As above, start with a brief background, personality and description.

*ethandrew*. Off the top of my head, can't remember. I couldn't tell you the exact mechanics for the Core grappling either, thruth be told. I'll look it up. It should be in the text above if you want to check for yourself.

Thanks *Scotley*. 

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Jun 23, 2007)

*covaithe,  Defcon*. You can move on to crunchy character generation.

--- CHARACTER GENERATION ---

Level 4, 32 point buy.
Starting wealth of about 5000 gold in goods. Pick something snazzy. Don't worry too much about mundane gear unless your character wants their own personal item or set. Your characters will have access to the resources of their Fall and Krel depending on the circumstances. 

One thing, plate armour is the province of the nobility.

-- Skills --
I'm not that fussed about class/x-class distinction. If it fits your character's background, take the skill.

Spot and Listen are combined into Perception, Hide and MS are combined into Stealth.

Characters can take an extra 2 skill points per level. That means 8 points at first, and 2 points per level thereafter. You will need them. Keep reading. 

I would like the characters to have some means of contributing to the Fall or earning a living when away from it besides 'adventuring'. A Craft or Profession skill, Handle Animal - whatever you think could be used to earn a few coin. Unskilled labouring is an option, but the wages are terrible.

- Languages -

The dominant tongue in Hella is Dornish. It is also the native tongue of a couple of neighbouring kingdoms. The grell have their own language, called Grell. There is no Common as such. If there is a common tongue, it would be Trader, a blend of the vocabulary and syntax from a number of languages. Jiddian, the language of the mighty Jidda Empire, is the common language of art, learning and diplomacy. The nobility speak it almost exclusively across most of the land.

I want to treat languages as regular skills, with higher ranks to reflect greater fluency and literacy. A simple rule of thumb (for gaming purposes) would be that a character can make sentences equal in length to their bonus in the language. Reading a menu or simple notice would be about Diff 5, a pamphlet or simple book about Diff 10, a contract or academic essay maybe Diff 15. But I said just one exception, didn't I. *sigh* Oh well. Lets go with this.

All characters start with Speak Grell. They may take Write Grell for one point. Speak Dornish and Speak Trader can be taken for one point each. There is no written from of Trader. Otherwise, languages cost 2 points, with Speak and Write separate skills.

OK, am I missing anything?

--- SETTING GENERATION ---

The setting is fairly generic medieval fantasy. So far we all seem to be on the same page. I going to keep the setting information at the start of the thread, and update it as new things come up. 

I'm also going to ask you for your input. Here are three questions:

_Tell me something about the Kingdom - the royal family, the capitol city, the treatment of the minorities, the architecture. Something like that. Whatever takes your fancy._

_Tell me something about Horak-krel or grell society in general._

_Tell me something about your character's Fall._

OK. Gramatically, they are not questions. You don't have to write an essay, although you can if you really really feel like it. I'll take what you post and work it into the setting information above.

doghead
aka thotd


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## covaithe (Jun 23, 2007)

doghead said:
			
		

> *covaithe,  Defcon*. You can move on to crunchy character generation.



Ok.  I'm a bit busy this weekend, so look for something concrete around Monday.  Maybe Sunday night.


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## doghead (Jun 23, 2007)

Thats fine, you are a bit ahead of the others at the moment anyways. I don't think we will have anything up and running before mid to late next week at the earliest anyway.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Fenris (Jun 25, 2007)

Trav’nul was born into a small fall on the very edge of Horak-krel, right next to the forest. Trav’nul was born into the fell of Grash’nul the shaman of the settlement. As such he was born into a great tradition stretching back many generations. 

It is said that long ago a grell walked out of the forest, unknown to those in Horak-krel. He name was Tsuhk’kak and he came to save the grell he said. He became the first shaman of Horak-krel and taught the grell many new ways of working the land. From him descend all the shaman of Horak-krel, who carry on his teachings. The shaman of Horak-krel have a special connection with the spirits of nature. They consult with the spirits and declare when the soil is ready for seed. They call upon the rain spirits to bring water for crops. The shaman will even go out into the forest and speak with the animals, telling the hares and deer where to find other forage so they will leave the crops of the grell alone. They explain to the grell that sometimes Nature is harsh, and floods and fires will happen, but he also shows how the land is renewed after a flood, leaving a rich loam to farm in, and that the fire leaves ash for fertilizer.

So the shamans seek to have the grell live in balance with nature. It has been through the guidance of the shaman and the hard work of all that Horak-krel has been thriving of late, with fields passed over by the humans, producing enough for all the falls.

Trav’nul was raised in this tradition. He spent long days and nights in the forest under the study of his grandfather, learning to read all the signs of nature and how to speak with the spirits. The fall he grew up in was small by the standards of the settlement, but had manyrroms full of dried herbs and plants, for the shaman of Horak-krel also served as the healers of the settlement. He grew to adulthood a fine young grell, not as large as a warrior, but with somber eyes, full of the lessons of nature. He is a passionate young grell, though only about nature and its wonders. But the passion is tempered by his learning. Trav'nul is most at home out in the forest, where the many secrets of Shamanism have been passed onto him, but he still lives some of the time in the fall he was born in, though he reveres nature be was born in Horak-krel and calls it home. He has learned how to use the blessings of Tsuhk’kak for the benefit of the settlement.


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## doghead (Jun 25, 2007)

*Fenris*. Nice. Feel free to move onto the crunchy bits. Don't forget the Setting Generation questions as well when you have time. I'm keen to see what other people are thinking (pick your brains in other words).

I have a couple more questions for you as well. They are not necessary for character generation, but they came to me as I was reading your post. I have some ideas, but was wondering what you thought.

_1. Before the stranger walked out of the forest bringing animism to Horak-krel, what went before?  
2. What was the situation in the rest of the Kingdom at the time?
3. Where did the stranger come from?_

If anyone else has any thoughts on this, feel free to throw them into the ring.


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## covaithe (Jun 25, 2007)

Here's a first pass at Assaq's crunchy bits.  Things that need work:
  - animal companion. 
  - equipment.  I blew most of my gold on one nice item, and wasn't quite sure what my options were for the rest.  I wasn't sure I understood what you meant by mundane items.  Does this cover all non-magical gear?  All non-masterwork gear?  Only backpacks and bedrolls and such?  E.g. if I didn't have to pay for non-magical gear at all, that puts me within haggling distance of a wand of CLW, but if I have to pay for armor and weapons that's probably out of reach.  
  - money.  see above.  
  - It's probably worth double checking that I priced my bow correctly; it's been a while since I had to price out magic items. 
  - description and detailed background.  

[sblock=Assaq take 1]
*Name:* Assaq
*XP:* 6000
*Class:* Ranger 4
*Race:* Grell (Half-orc)
*Size:* Medium
*Gender:* Male
*Alignment:* LN

*Str:* 14 +2 ( 4p, +2 race)  
*Dex:* 15 +2 ( 6p, +1 level)
*Con:* 16 +3 (10p.)
*Int:* 10 +0 ( 4p, -2 race)
*Wis:* 14 +2 ( 6p.)
*Cha:*  8 -1 ( 2p, -2 race)

*BAB:* +4
*Init:* +2
*Speed:* 30'
*Grapple:* -1
*ACP:*  -1

*Saves:*
Fort: +7  (4 base, +3 con)
Ref: +6  (4 base, +2 dex)
Will: +3  (1 base, +2 dex)

*Attacks*
  +1 Flaming Composite Longbow (+2 str):  +7, 1d8+2 (x3) piercing +1d6 fire  
  +1 Flaming Composite Longbow (+2 str), rapid shot full attack:  +5/+5, 1d8+2 (x3) piercing +1d6 fire
  Longsword:  +6, 1d8+2 (19-20x2) slashing

*Soak:* 7 (+3 con, +4 armor)
*Defense:* 
    With bow: +6 (4 BAB, +2 dex)
    With sword and shield: +8 (4 BAB, +2 dex, +2 shield)

Common modifiers:
  Ranged attack within 30 feet:  +1 attack (point blank shot)
  vs. favored enemy (?) +2 damage

*Languages:* Speak Grell

*Abilities:*
Darkvision 60'  (race)
Favored enemy: ? (Ranger 1)
Track  (Ranger 1)
Wild Empathy  (Ranger 1)
Rapid Shot  (Ranger 2)
Endurance  (Ranger 3)
Animal Companion  (Ranger 4)


*Feats:*
Track  (Ranger 1)
Rapid Shot  (Ranger 2)
Endurance  (Ranger 3)
Point Blank Shot (clvl 1)
Toughness (GnG:  +1 soak)   (clvl 3)

[sblock=Skills]
	
	



```
[B]Skill Points:[/B]   (6 +0 (int) +2 (houserule))*4 + (6 +0 +2 )*ranger lvl = 64
[B]Max Ranks:[/B] 7/3.5
 +0 Appraise (0 ranks +0 int)
 +1 Balance (0 ranks +2 dex -1 armor)
 -1 Bluff (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +5 Climb (4 ranks, +2 str, -1 armor)
 +3 Concentration (0 ranks, +3 con)
 +3 Craft (Bowmaking) (3 ranks, +0 int)
 -1 Diplomacy (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 -1 Disguise (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +1 Escape artist (0 ranks, +2 dex, -1 armor)
 +0 Forgery 
 -1 Gather information (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +6 Handle animal (7 ranks, -1 cha)
 +3 Heal (1 rank, +2 wis)
 +8 Stealth (7 ranks, +2 dex, -1 armor)
 -1 Intimidate (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +3 Jump (2 ranks, +2 str, -1 armor)
 +4 knowledge(geography) (4 ranks, +0 int)
 +7 knowledge(nature) (7 ranks, +0 int)
 +3 knowledge(local) (3 ranks, +0 int)
 +9 Perception (7 ranks, +2 wis)
 +2 Ride (0 ranks, +2 dex)
 +7 Search (7 ranks, +0 int)
 +2 Sense motive (0 ranks, +2 wis)
 +9 Survival (7 ranks, +2 wis)
 +2 Swim (2 ranks, +2 str, -2 armor)
 +2 Use rope (0 ranks, +2 dex)

Languages:
 Speak Grell (free)
 Write Grell (1 rank)
 Speak Dornish (1 rank)
 Speak Trader (1 rank)
```
[/sblock]

[sblock=equipment]
	
	



```
Wt:  Paid:      Description:
 -      -       Explorer's outfit
 3   4300       +1 [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#flaming]Flaming[/url] [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite]Composite Longbow[/url] (+2 str)
 9      3       60 arrows
25    250       MW chain shirt
 4     15       Longsword
10      7       Heavy wooden shield

                          [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]                58    116   175
[B]Total weight carried:[/B] 51
```
[/sblock]

*Money:* 425g

*Spells:* Ranger spell list
*Spells per day:* 1/0/0/0
*Save DC: 12 + spell lvl*
*Spells prepared:*  1:  Entangle

*Age:* 24
*Height:* 5'8"
*Weight:* 170lb
*Eyes:* black
*Hair:* brown
*Skin:* greenish brown?
*Appearance:* 
Forthcoming

*Background:* 
Forthcoming

[sblock=money tracking]

```
5000g Starting gold
-4300  +1 [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm#flaming]Flaming[/url] [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite]Composite Longbow[/url] (+2 str)
   -3  60 arrows
 -250  MW chain shirt
  -15  Longsword
   -7  Heavy wooden shield
```

Current total:  
  425g
[/sblock]

[sblock=xp]
 6000 starting xp (4th level)
[/sblock]

[sblock=Animal Companion]
todo
[/sblock]
[/sblock]


----------



## doghead (Jun 26, 2007)

Wow. You linked all the special abilities. That deserves a wand of CLW at least. 

I'll read over it a little more closely offline and get back to you. But nothing jumps out at me.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jun 26, 2007)

Looking over it a bit, I noticed one mistake:  I forgot to add +1 soak for the toughness feat.  Easily fixed.  

Also, I remembered a question I was going to ask:  any hints as to what I might want to pick for a favored enemy?


----------



## covaithe (Jun 26, 2007)

Setting generation questions.  All brainstorming; feel free to say no, of course.  

_1.  Tell me something about the Kingdom - the royal family, the capitol city, the treatment of the minorities, the architecture. Something like that. Whatever takes your fancy._
 The current king is very old, more than 100 years old, some say, which is ancient for a human.  He is still healthy and energetic, though, which has led some people to speculate in whispers that he may be prolonging his life unnaturally.  He has several children who are themselves growing old, and dozens of grandchildren and great-grandchildren.  He was well-liked in his youth, but has grown stricter in recent years, and less willing to listen to counsel.  


_2. Tell me something about Horak-krel or grell society in general._
    Most races of Hella bury their dead.  Humans have funerals and tombs as elaborate and ornate as their means permit, usually on holy ground.  Whar prefer to be buried in deep caves or under massive stone cairns.  Darinjhar deal with their dead in private, and no one can say for sure what they do with them, though lurid stories abound.  Nikoba and Grell, though, who live mostly in the countryside far away from cities, always burn their dead.  Some say it's to prevent disease and keep wild animals from gaining a taste for humanoid flesh, but there are older, darker stories, too, about what can happen to unburnt bodies.  At Nikoba funerals, the mourners light a pyre at sunset, and feast and drink toasts to the deceased until the fire of their cremation is completely cold, and sometimes the mourners will throw extra logs on the fire if they wish to show their affection for the deceased.  Grell funerals, in contrast, are conducted in complete silence.  When the pyre is lit, those who were particularly close to the deceased sometimes express their grief by scarring themselves.  


_3. Tell me something about your character's Fall._
    Assaq is from a poor fell, led by an old grell named Beteq.  When Assaq was young, Beteq's fell endured a number of years of hard times.  Despite help from other fells, debt, poor harvests and sickness sent some to an early pyre, and others to seek their fortune elsewhere in the world, both of which weakened the fell further.  Among those who died were Assaq's parents.  Now, Beteq's fell is doing better, thanks partly to Assaq's hunting and bowmaking, but mostly to the general improvements in the village's fortunes caused by the influence of the shamen.


----------



## doghead (Jun 27, 2007)

*covaithe* Close with the bow, only out by a factor of 2. The +1 Flaming weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, or 8,000 gp. With the weapon base cost of 600 gp for a masterwork +2 str bow (and enchanted weapons all have to be masterwork), that gives you 8,600 gp.

A +1 Composite longbow (+2 str) would cost 2,600.

As for mundane, I was tinking along the lines of backpacks, flasks of oil, blankets, flint and steel, waterskins, that sort of thing. The sort of thing that would probably be lying around the Fall somewhere, or the character could get their hands on easily enough,

I like the setting feedback. Nice. Thanks for taking the time to put down some ideas. Number 2 in particular dovetails perfectly with something I was thinking. Hopefully it will come up later in the game. 

doghead
aka thotd

Edit: Favoured enemy. I knew that there was something else. I try and get a little description of the area and common foes up tomorrow night. That should give you some insight.


----------



## covaithe (Jun 27, 2007)

See, that's why I pointed it out as something to check.    Now I'll have to decide if I want +1 or Flaming...  Oh, well, at least it frees up some cash for better armor or some of the neat wondrous items.


----------



## doghead (Jun 27, 2007)

Unfortunately, weapons with special abilities must have a minimum bonus of +1. But never fear, I don't really have any problem with characters upgrading items they already own. There were rules for something like this, heritage weapons or something. But its not core. Oh well, if we get that far we can work something out.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## Lord_Raven88 (Jun 27, 2007)

This sounds like an interesting game. below is my character concept.

*Sebastian Keth, Sorcerer 4*
*Appearance*
Sebastian is thin for a Grell lacking the typical muscle mass common to most Grell's. Sebastian is a handsome Grell with refined features, smoky grey eyes  and a look of intelligence and humour that usually sets others at ease.  

Sebastian wears his long black hair tied back at the nape of his neck and dresses in fine well tailored clothing.

*Background*
Sebastian comes from a well respected and distinguished family that has a knack for leadership and a flair for finance.  Sebastian father Gordon Keth is the current mayor of Horak-krel and they live in fine manor house built over the top of their ancestral fall. 

As well as being the mayor of Horak-krel Gordon is also a wealthy merchant who owns a number of important businesses as well as having many lucrative shipping contracts between Horak-krel and the other nations.  Gordon employs many of the local Grell to provide support and protection for the many caravans of merchandise which pass along the central trade route which runs thru Horak-krel.

Sebastian is the second son of Gordon and Lucia Grell. At a young age Sebastian showed the be possessed the two most important traits of the Keth's. Intelligence and Charm. When Sebastian began his teenage years he also showed a natural aptitude for arcane magic, Sebastian's father was excited by the possibilities that this rare gift could bring to the Keth name and fortune, so he encouraged Sebastian to pursue and develop this gift, even going as far as hiring a tutor to guide Sebastian development.

Sebastian has proven himself as an able negotiator and has developed a fondness for travel, usually while guarding important shipments with his arcane might.


----------



## DrZombie (Jun 28, 2007)

Muahahahahahhaaaaaaaaaaaaaa

Room for one more? i was thinking 'bout playing a raging blacksmith


----------



## doghead (Jun 28, 2007)

Welcome *Lord Raven88*: Against the odds, a grell sorcerer. That's the sort of thing I would try. I haven't played a lot of gng, but enough to know that some combat spells are affected - Magic Missile is somewhat limited, True Strike can be devastating. Keep it in mind during spell selection.

The son of a successful grell is fine. It's just the reach that bothers me. I tend to see the grell as a somewhat minority race - disenfranchised and marginalised. Good for hard, dirty and dangerous labour. Itinerant workers. Useful as as grist the the war-mill. But little else in the eyes of most humans. 

Grell are probably prohibited from owning property in most cities and towns. Or at least, few would sell to them or want them as neighbours. There goes the neighbourhood! So ownership of property is restricted mostly to the settlements, which are almost all to be found in the most inhospitable, barren or dangerous parts of the kingdom. Ownership of businesses would be similarly difficult outside the settlements. Being a major provider of grell muscle for caravan guards to merchants, that works. Kind of like an agent. Being connected into the underworld of the major cities would also be feasible, given the nature of that business. Being a significant and successful merchant in the grell community would be fine. But being a player outside that would be more difficult.

Similarly with the major trade route. If one ran through the settlement, it would make the land too valuable to be left to the grell, at least in the eyes of the humans.

I don't really want to say no to anything. But have a think about the points above and let me know what you think.

Bugger off *DrZ*  ... Oh, all right. You can play if you really want to. A blacksmith even. I need a description and background.  But you had better get cracking.

*covaithe*: As the others seemed to have fallen a bit quiet, I was going to suggest kicking off the ic thread once Assaq was done (which basically he is - note to self, get RG thread started) and running it one on one until your companions got themselves sorted. However, I thought I might give Lord Raven, DrZ, and the others a couple more days to get their stuff together.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm happy to wait a couple of days, since I'll be fairly busy this weekend.  But if you're jonesing to get started, that's fine, too.  

I still owe you a final equipment selection and a better description.


----------



## doghead (Jun 28, 2007)

OK. We give it a few more days. Looking for a Monday IC kickoff.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Jun 28, 2007)

I'm getting Mogro together, he should be posted by the end of today.  Although... I'm on vacation all next week so I won't be online to post unfortunately.  If this precludes me from participating... I understand.  But if Mogro can show up late to the party, then that'd be awesome.  Up to you, doghead.


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Jun 28, 2007)

```
[B]Name:[/B]       [COLOR=SeaGreen][B]Mogro Bardican[/B][/COLOR]
[B]Class:[/B]      Fighter
[B]Race:[/B]       Halfork
[B]Size:[/B]       Medium
[B]Gender:[/B]     Male
[B]Alignment:[/B]  Neutral Good     

[B]Str:[/B] 18 +4 (10p.)     [B]Level:[/B]    4     [B]XP:[/B]   10,000
[B]Dex:[/B] 14 +2  (6p.)     [B]BAB:[/B]     +4     [B]Speed:[/B]   20'
[B]Con:[/B] 16 +3 (10p.)     [B]Defense:[/B] +8     [B]Init:[/B]    +2
[B]Int:[/B] 08 -1  (2p.)     [B]Soak:[/B]    +9
[B]Wis:[/B] 10 +0  (2p.)     
[B]Cha:[/B] 08 -1  (2p.)     

                      [B]Con  Armor  NatArm  Size  Misc[/B]
[B]Soak:[/B]    +10           +3    +7     +0     +0    --

                      [B]BDB   Dex   Shield  Size  Misc[/B]
[B]Defense:[/B]  +8           +4    +2     +2     +0    --

                      [B]Base  Mod  Misc[/B]
[B]Fort:[/B]  +7              +4    +3   --
[B]Ref:[/B]   +3              +1    +2   --
[B]Will:[/B]  +1              +1    +0   --

[B]Weapon:               Attack  Damage  Critical[/B]
Bastardsword +1       +10     1d10+7    19-20
Dagger                 +8      1d4+4    19-20
Lance                  +8      1d8+4     x3
Longbow                +6      1d8       x3

[B]Languages:[/B] Speak Grell, Dornish

[B]Abilities:[/B]
Darkvision 30' (Halfork)
Orc Blood (Halfork)

[B]Feats:[/B]
Bastardsword Proficiency (Gen1)
Bastardsword Focus (Fig1)
Mounted Combat (Fig2)
Powerful Charge (Gen3)
Bastardsword Specialization (Fig4)

[B]Skill Points:[/B] 21      [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 7

[B]Skills:               Ranks  Mod  Misc[/B]
Climb +6                2     +4   --
Handle Animal +6        7     -1   --
Jump +6                 2     +4   --
Perception +2           2     +0   --
Ride +9                 7     +2   --
Speak Dornish           1

[B]Equipment:                Cost  Weight[/B]
Backpack                   2gp     2lb
Bedroll                    1sp     5lb
Belt Pouches (2)           2gp     1lb
Flint & Steel              1gp     0lb
Lantern, Hooded            7gp     2lb
Oil (3)                    3sp     3lb
Rations (4 days)           2gp     4lb
Waterskin                  1gp     4lb
Whetstone                  2cp     1lb

Bastardsword +1         2335gp     6lb
Dagger                     2gp     1lb
Longbow                   75gp     3lb
Arrows (40)                2gp     6lb
Lance                     10gp    10lb
Banded Mail +1          1350gp    35lb               
Shield, Lg Metal          20gp    15lb

Warhorse, Heavy          400gp
Barding, Chainmail       700gp    80lb
Bit & Bridle               2gp     1lb
Saddle, Military          20gp    30lb
Saddlebags                 4gp     8lb


                  Total 4996.42

[B]Total Weight:[/B] 98lb
[B]Money:[/B] 3gp 5sp 8cp
```

*Appearance:* Mogro is actually rather short for a half-orc, only 5'8". However, whatever he loses in height he more than makes up for in girth. Weighing in at 265lbs, the thickness of his chest, arms and legs makes him look almost like a bulldog walking upright. His skin is pale peach tinted with just a hint of green, his long, black hair covers his entire body, and his pronounced canines have been capped with attractive gold bands. If you look straight at him you will notice his lazy right eye, and coupled with his less-than-perfect speech, the overall effect is that he is a man made for fighting and not for diplomacy. However, with the large smile he tends to always wear, Mogro does not necessarily seem the fighting type.

*History:* It is unknown how many generations back the Bardican line has lived in Horak-krel.  All Mogro knows is that his family has been a respected member of the community since he can remember, although his father's job has caused some costernation at various points. His father, Malco Bardican, was a soldier in one of the kingdom's mercenary companies, the Flying Serpents.  He spent his days traveling to and from the various hamlets throughout the Hella kingdom, protecting them from the overt and covert threats. When Malco declared his intention of working for the kingdom in this manner, many of the Bardican family were troubled by this... as it was thought that if he intended a life of defense, he would better serve the community by defending Horak-krel itself rather than leave home. However, Malco had a calling for a greater service, and thus he journeyed out from the village to join the Serpents.  Mogro's mother, Terga, thus became the quintessential solder's wife. While Malco would be gone for weeks at a time, she would be at home in Horak-krel raising the family's three children (of which Mogro was second oldest and the only boy). What might be surprising is that despite her husband having left the settlement to earn his keep away from home, Terga dealt with the situation and raising of the children admirably.  Terga became a respected and beloved member of the community and the Fall, and she passed those values onto her children.  Mogro learned early on to respect the differences in all people, became well-liked, took an active hand in the settlement's actions, and was always willing to help his fellow grell.

Following in his father's footsteps was always the plan for Mogro. Despite his lack of height, he took to a work ethic that produced a strong, healthy young man. And although he was not as bright as his two sisters, he nonetheless earned the respect of the folks in Horak-krel and the neighboring town due to his feats of physicality. He seemed to have a way with horses, and he developed a good rapport with them.  Riding and animal care became paramount as he got older, and Mogro hoped that when he reached his majority, he might join the Flying Serpents as a mounted warrior and join his father.  However, once he became of age, it was seen that Mogro's perceived lack of mental acuity would make an immediate move into the Serpents an impossibility. Father and son both decided that the best way for Mogro to prove his mettle was to gain experience first as part of the settlement's defenses. Mogro and Malco both hope that with a couple years of hard work defending Horak-krel and learning the basics of a military life, advancement into Serpents will not be far down the road.


----------



## doghead (Jun 29, 2007)

*Defcon*: I'll have a look over the character sheet off line. Being delayed a week won't be a problem, if you don't mind me slotting Mogro into the ic thread. Otherwise it could take a few weeks to bring in new people. FWhich is why I was planning to borrow Mogro and a few other concepts anyways. If people got their characters finished, they could jump right in. If not, I would keep them as NPC's. Waste not want not.

*Everyone*. As always, feel free to post up thoughts, suggestions, alterations or additions. When we have settled on what we like, I'll try and get it all incorporated into one post at the beginning of the thread.

*covaithe*. Hopefully this should help somewhat with your favoured enemy choice. But my advice is pick something you think is cool - odds are you will encounter them.  

--- MORE SETTING INFORMATION ---

-- The Region and its Dangers --

There are many dangers in the temperate forests, lowlands, hills and mountains around Horak-krel. Wild animals are perhaps the most common. Dire animals occasionally are encountered. But while dangerous, these creature are not necessarily overtly hostile. That honour usually goes to humans. Bands of bandits sometimes make their home in the wild lands around settlements, raiding and looting both grell and human communities alike. And the men tasked with stopping them are often little better. Many of them see little difference between bandits and grell. Occasionally, savage tribesmen from over the mountains cross the passes to raid the kingdom. But this hasn't happened in almost a decade.

Then there are the magical and often monstrous beasts. Some of them keep to themselves, others are as likely to help as to harm. But others still are vicious and dangerous predators attacking and killing anything they see as weaker than themselves. Every old hunter has a tale, or two if they are lucky, of an encounter with such creatures.

Almost always dangerous are the goblins and giant races - trolls, ogres as well as giants. True, the latter are almost never seen. But they are there in the depths of the forests and reaches of the mountains. And they have little time or regard for the smaller races. Goblins on the other hand are far more numerous. And in numbers, they can be exceptionally dangerous. Especially when they have worgs with them. Goblins are aggressive, cruel and destructive. Mostly this energy is directed at other clans; the goblins are almost always feuding between themselves. But occasionally it can be directed outward at others in the form of raids on settlements, farms and travellers. The goblins rarely leave any bodies behind. No one really knows what happens to those capture as few have escaped to tell. But the rumours of what happens to those taken are usually terrible. They speak of live sacrifices, cannibalism, slavery and torture.

There is reputed to be a Whar stonghold in the Whelk mountains. But the Whar are notoriously secretive about the locations of their stong-holds. Few outsiders are ever invited to enter them, and those that are rarely speak of their location. Several days south and west of Horak-krel there is a Nikoba village. The Nikoba rarely travel to Horak, but occasionally they can be seen in town.

Finally the fey. Fickle, clever, and imperious, they fiercely protect those parts of the land they claim as their own. They tolerate few to enter. Those that stumble into the territory of a fey creature are usually evicted in short order. Often with little real understanding or memory of what happened.

-- Grell Society, The Elders --

Grell settlements are ruled by a loose group known as elders. Any grell with grandchildren is automatically considered an elder, and entitled to attend the council meetings. Indeed, they are somewhat expected to. From the elders a smaller council is chosen. These are the Honoured, grell of significant standing in their Krel. The decision making process in grell society is generally quite inclusive. Issues are raised in open meetings which any who are interested my attend. After hearing all sides, the elders retire to discuss the situation before themselves leaving the final decision to the Honoured. Although the Honoured have the final say, their decisions are expected to reflect the views of the community.

The shaman has a special place in the process. He, or she, is automatically considered and elder, and membership of the Honoured is almost universal. Students of the shaman are not included among the elders unless they meet the requirements.

-- Grell  Society, Children --

Grells do not marry in the way humans do. Customarily, when grells mate, the female does not leave her hall to live with the male, nor vice versa. The mother stays with her clan, and the child stays with its mother. The father is expected to contribute to the upkeep and upbringing of the child however. And when the child reaches adolescence, it commonly will spend significant periods of time living at its father's Fall. 

[[OK. This bit may conflict with a few of the backgrounds, especially where father's feature significantly. We can always ditch it, or perhaps have the child raised in the father's fall once it is weaned.]]

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## Lord_Raven88 (Jun 29, 2007)

doghead said:
			
		

> OK. We give it a few more days. Looking for a Monday IC kickoff.
> 
> doghead
> aka thotd



Sounds good, and I happy to change Sebastians background to better fit your campaign.


----------



## doghead (Jun 29, 2007)

Nice work *Defcon*. It all seems pretty straight.

*Everyone*: A note on GNG combat. Combat is a contested roll, attack vs defence. The attacker, if successful, takes any overkill as a bonus to damage. For example, the attacker rolls 13+5 for 18. The defender rolls 8+6 for 14. The attacker is successful and adds +4 to his damage, along with the usual enchantment, strength etc bonuses. Critical hits are scored if the attacker bests the defender by an amount determined by the weapon used. 10+ for a weapon with a threat range of 20. 8+ for a weapon with a threat range of 19-20.

I'll handle the combat off stage, but I just wanted to point out a couple of things.

*ethandrew*. If you are still with us, special attacks work pretty much as per the core rules. There are some minor adjustments sometimes. Touch Attacks get a bonus of +4, as the GnG rules already ignore armour for the purpose of determining hits. So this would affect any grappling attacks.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jun 29, 2007)

Updated character sheet for Assaq.  Changes:
    - added animal companion (wolf)
    - redid equipment, which affected attacks, soak, and money. 
    - added +1 soak for Toughness feat, which I forgot the first time
    - added description 
    - added background (nothing new, just compiled what I wrote elsewhere)
    - added favored enemy humanoid(goblinoid)

[sblock=Assaq take 2]
*Name:* Assaq
*XP:* 6000
*Class:* Ranger 4
*Race:* Grell (Half-orc)
*Size:* Medium
*Gender:* Male
*Alignment:* LN

*Str:* 14 +2 ( 4p, +2 race)  
*Dex:* 15 +2 ( 6p, +1 level)
*Con:* 16 +3 (10p.)
*Int:* 10 +0 ( 4p, -2 race)
*Wis:* 14 +2 ( 6p.)
*Cha:*  8 -1 ( 2p, -2 race)

*BAB:* +4
*Init:* +2
*Speed:* 30'
*Grapple:* -1
*ACP:*  -1

*Saves:*
Fort: +7  (4 base, +3 con)
Ref: +6  (4 base, +2 dex)
Will: +3  (1 base, +2 dex)

*Attacks*
+1 Composite Longbow (+2 str):  +7, 1d8+2 (x3) piercing
+1 Composite Longbow (+2 str), full attack:  +5/+5, 1d8+2 (x3) piercing
  Longsword:  +6, 1d8+2 (19-20x2) slashing

*Soak:* 9 (+3 con, +5 armor, +1 Toughness)
*Defense:* 
    With bow: +6 (4 BAB, +2 dex)
    With sword and shield: +8 (4 BAB, +2 dex, +2 shield)

Common modifiers:
  Ranged attack within 30 feet:  +1 attack (point blank shot)
  vs. humanoid (goblinoid) +2 damage

*Languages:* Speak Grell

*Abilities:*
Darkvision 60'  (race)
Favored enemy: Humanoid (goblinoid) (Ranger 1)
Track  (Ranger 1)
Wild Empathy  (Ranger 1)
Rapid Shot  (Ranger 2)
Endurance  (Ranger 3)
Animal Companion  (Ranger 4)


*Feats:*
Track  (Ranger 1)
Rapid Shot  (Ranger 2)
Endurance  (Ranger 3)
Point Blank Shot (clvl 1)
Toughness (GnG:  +1 soak)   (clvl 3)

[sblock=Skills]
	
	



```
[B]Skill Points:[/B]   (6 +0 (int) +2 (houserule))*4 + (6 +0 +2 )*ranger lvl = 64
[B]Max Ranks:[/B] 7/3.5
 +0 Appraise (0 ranks +0 int)
 +1 Balance (0 ranks +2 dex -1 armor)
 -1 Bluff (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +5 Climb (4 ranks, +2 str, -1 armor)
 +3 Concentration (0 ranks, +3 con)
 +3 Craft (Bowmaking) (3 ranks, +0 int)
 -1 Diplomacy (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 -1 Disguise (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +1 Escape artist (0 ranks, +2 dex, -1 armor)
 +0 Forgery 
 -1 Gather information (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +6 Handle animal (7 ranks, -1 cha)
 +3 Heal (1 rank, +2 wis)
 +8 Stealth (7 ranks, +2 dex, -1 armor)
 -1 Intimidate (0 ranks, -1 cha)
 +3 Jump (2 ranks, +2 str, -1 armor)
 +4 knowledge(geography) (4 ranks, +0 int)
 +7 knowledge(nature) (7 ranks, +0 int)
 +3 knowledge(local) (3 ranks, +0 int)
 +9 Perception (7 ranks, +2 wis)
 +2 Ride (0 ranks, +2 dex)
 +7 Search (7 ranks, +0 int)
 +2 Sense motive (0 ranks, +2 wis)
 +9 Survival (7 ranks, +2 wis)
 +2 Swim (2 ranks, +2 str, -2 armor)
 +2 Use rope (0 ranks, +2 dex)

Languages:
 Speak Grell (free)
 Write Grell (1 rank)
 Speak Dornish (1 rank)
 Speak Trader (1 rank)
```
[/sblock]

[sblock=equipment]
	
	



```
Wt:  Paid:      Description:
 -      -       Explorer's outfit
 3   2600       [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm]+1 [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite]Composite Longbow[/url] (+2 str)
 9      3       60 arrows
25   1250       [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm]+1[/url] [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/armor.htm#tableArmorandShields]chain
shirt[/url]
 4     15       Longsword
10      7       Heavy wooden shield
 -    750       Wand of [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/cureLightWounds.htm]Cure Light Wounds[/url], CL 1, 50 charges remaining

                          [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy[/B]
[B]Max Weight:[/B]                58    116   175
[B]Total weight carried:[/B] 51
```
[/sblock]

*Money:* 375g

*Spells:* Ranger spell list
*Spells per day:* 1/0/0/0
*Save DC: 12 + spell lvl*
*Spells prepared:*  1:  Entangle

*Age:* 24
*Height:* 5'8"
*Weight:* 170lb
*Eyes:* black
*Hair:* brown
*Skin:* greenish brown?
*Appearance:* 
Assaq is a slenderly built grell of medium height, with weather-darkened
skin and close-cropped dark hair.  He wears nondescript dark clothing that
seems to blend into the shadows.  He wears a plain longsword in a
scabbard, a small wooden shield slung over his back, and carries a large,
beautifully wrought longbow.  Those with keen ears can occasionally hear
the clink of mail under his clothes.  

*Background:* 
Assaq was a quiet child, more likely to spend hours sitting motionless observing birds and animals than to play with other children. The elders of Horak-krel, taking notice of this, apprenticed him early to the clan's hunters. He quickly showed talent at shooting small game, and came to take pride in providing a valuable service to the village. When he grew to full size, he began to train with martial weapons, and was soon invited to accompany the senior hunters on expeditions to clear away dangerous vermin from the surrounding countryside and, on rare occasions, to raid nearby settlements.

Now Assaq is a trusted member of the clan's hunters, but still leads a fairly solitary life. He often volunteers for patrols that take him deep into the surrounding wilderness alone. He speaks little, preferring patient observation and swift action. He has great respect for the clan elders, and is perfectly comfortable taking any means necessary in carrying out their instructions. 

Assaq is from a poor fell, led by an old grell named Beteq. When Assaq was young, Beteq's fell endured a number of years of hard times. Despite help from other fells, debt, poor harvests and sickness sent some to an early pyre, and others to seek their fortune elsewhere in the world, both of which weakened the fell further. Among those who died were Assaq's parents. Now, Beteq's fell is doing better, thanks partly to Assaq's hunting and bowmaking, but mostly to the general improvements in the village's fortunes caused by the influence of the shamen.

[sblock=money tracking]

```
5000g Starting gold
-2600  [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicWeapons.htm]+1[/url] [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/equipment/weapons.htm#longbowComposite]Composite Longbow[/url] (+2 str)
   -3  60 arrows
-1250  [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/magicItems/magicArmor.htm]+1[/url] chain shirt
  -15  Longsword
   -7  Heavy wooden shield
 -750  Wand of Cure Light Wounds, CL 1
```

Current total:  
  375g
[/sblock]

[sblock=xp]
 6000 starting xp (4th level)
[/sblock]

[sblock=Animal Companion]
Ranger animal companion:  Wolf
Typical for its kind, except for the following special abilities: Link, Share spells, 1 bonus trick: Attack

[/sblock]
[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Jun 29, 2007)

just for the record, if you ever start a game not using GnG, I got dibs. 
Have fun with this one guys, I would've joined but GnG is not my cup of tea.

Good luck, oh Head of the Dog.


----------



## doghead (Jun 30, 2007)

Hey Jemal, I really did try with this setting*, honestly. I gave it my best shot. It was going to be core rules, no exceptions. I just couldn't do it. The best I could do was leave it up to the players to call, and fortunately, they took pity on me. So odds are I'll never run a game that's not GnG.

Personally, having seen a few of your characters, I think you you might like the GnG rules. There isn't the separation between fighting skill and damage. You can put together some brutal combinations. Your fighting skill is also reflected in your ability to avoid getting hurt. If you ever feel like giving it a shot, you know where to find me.

* Actually, this is my second idea for a setting. The first was inspired by the first post of your Final Fantasy J. game. I had several pages of background worked out before I realised that I was biting off more than I could handle at the moment. The more unique the setting, the more effort needed to ensure everyone is on the same page. So that one is on the back-burner for the moment. I don't think I will have the time to run a second game for a while.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## doghead (Jul 1, 2007)

*covaithe*. Your skill points should be 56 [(6+2)*4 + (6+2)*ranger level-1]. Your first level has been double counted otherwise. I missed this last time. Sorry. Otherwise, it all seems to be good. 

The Rogues Gallery is up. And the game has a name - *Underdogs*.

*covaithe*, *defcon*, feel free to post your characters to the Rogues Gallery thread here.

So, the situation so far:

Character Completed:
Assaq, a male grell ranger played by *covaithe*.
Mogro, a male grell fighter played by *defcon1*.

Concept Submitted:
Trav’nul, a male grell druid played by *Fenris*
Sebastian, a male grell sorcerer played by *Lord Raven88*.

Expressions of Interest:
a grell rogue played by *mellub*.
a grell blacksmith played by *DrZidiot* 

I am still aiming for a Monday kickoff, about 24 hours from now. I might change plans however, and run a short encounter first with Assaq, and anyone else who has completed their character sheet. We should knock it over in a week or two, allowing for Mogro to step in when Defcon gets back.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jul 1, 2007)

Assaq is up in the RG, with fixed skills.


----------



## doghead (Jul 2, 2007)

The IC thread is up, here. 

Assaq and Mogro are on stage along with Mogro's sister in a special guest appearance.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jul 3, 2007)

I'm doing some international travel over the next week or so.  I expect to have internet access pretty much the whole time, and should be able to keep posting regularly, but there might be days when I'm too busy or can't get online or whatever.  Just FYI.


----------



## doghead (Jul 4, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

No problem *covaithe*. Don't sweat it if you can't post up for a few days. Its not like you will be holding anyone else up at the moment 

Speaking of others, obviously *DEFCON1* is in a position to jump right in. I hoping he will. But he doesn't reappear, and no one else completes characters, are you interested in pushing on one-on-one?

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## Fenris (Jul 4, 2007)

Hi Doghead,
Sorry for my absence. A whirlwind of family activities to inaugarate summer left me too tired to post at night. I'll get Trav'nul finished up very quickly here (you know after tonight's picnic and fireworks    )

Fenris


----------



## doghead (Jul 5, 2007)

Great to have you back Fenris. Things have slowed a little as covaithe is travelling and DEFCON1 is on holidays for a few more days. So you should have some time.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jul 5, 2007)

doghead said:
			
		

> But he doesn't reappear, and no one else completes characters, are you interested in pushing on one-on-one?



I'm interested in continuing, but I'd rather have other players around.  There doesn't usually seem to be a shortage of players around here.  Though, all of the threads I follow ahve been pretty quiet the last week or two; I wonder if this is just a slow time of year.


----------



## Lord_Raven88 (Jul 5, 2007)

Sorry about this doghead, but I'm going to have to pull out of this game. I in the planning stages of DMing another adventure, so I don't want to overextend myself just yet.


----------



## doghead (Jul 6, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

Sorry to see you go *Lord Raven88*. I was looking forward to see how your grell sorcerer worked out. But I know where you are coming from. Starting a game, even a simple one like this, is fairly demanding on your time and attention. You are right to be cautious about getting committed. It can burn you out. Good luck with your game. 

I might yoink a couple of your background ideas if you don't mind.

*covaithe*. I agree. Playing with others is much more fun. However, I have made so many characters that never really got much of a run that I will try and keep a game going so long as there is even one active player. Hopefully DEFCON and Fenris will be joining us shortly so it won't come to that. With them we shall have three PC's. Three to four was my goal, I think smaller groups make a tighter, faster game. 

I spoke to *DrZ*, he is interested in playing, but right now he doesn't have the time to start anything new. He might turn up down the track.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## doghead (Jul 7, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs



			
				covaithe said:
			
		

> So, I guess soak really is king.




I tend to think of it as 'size is king'. Larger creatures not only get bonuses to Soak, but also Damage. The giant races (ogres, trolls, and of course giants) are not creatures of fearsome reputation for no reason. Which is how it should be. 



			
				covaithe said:
			
		

> Daunting.




Daunting indeed. There is always the much neglected 'run away' option. For most of those in Hella, this would be the first option. But if the characters stay and fight, those small bonuses can really come in useful. Critical hits can also change the equation significantly. There are a number of options (Blind, Stun, Disable Leg, etc.) but by far the most commonly used, (and the one I use as the default) is Bypass Armour. Light Armour is easier to bypass than heavy, or natural, armour. To threaten a critical hit, the character needs to achieve a certain overkill, dependent on the weapon. A longbow (20x3) threatens if the overkill is 10 or more. A longsword (19-20x2) threatens if the overkill is 8 or more. Higher 'Attack' bonuses mean the character is more likely to achieve a critical hit, which generally favours the PC's.



			
				covaithe said:
			
		

> A couple of minor quibbles with your math ...




Correct and my mistake. I missed the enchantment bonus on the longbow. I've update my version of your character sheet. Mongro's sister's calculations should have read: 

* Mongro's Sister Crossbow (15+3-2) 16 vs Owlbear Def (6+5) 11 = Hit +5 overkill.
* * Dam (5+4) 9 - Soak 14 + 0 wounds

Initially, I forgot the range penalty, which made the overkill +7. I corrected that (which made the overkill +5) and the damage total (9), but forgot to change the 7 to a 5 within the brackets. The damage roll was 4.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## doghead (Jul 11, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs



			
				covaithe said:
			
		

> I'm confused about the math again in round 4. In Assaq's attack, I assume 16+7+11=24 should be 16+7+1=24, but I can't figure out where the +1 comes from. Also, there seem to be 2 overkill missing in that attack (which is all right, though, since the owlbear somehow acquired an extra -2 penalty against Mogro's attack).




Correct. It should be +1. First I wrote the post with Mogro fighting defensively. Then with Mogro charging, then with him being charged when I realised the owl-bear moved first. Along the way there were a few changes to  the math, and sometimes I got a bit addled.

The +1 comes from ... point blank shot. I knew there was something.

And correct. There is +2 overkill missing. Which would give the owl-bear 18 wounds at the end of the round. One -2 comes is a result of charging, the -2 AC in the regular rules. The other -2 comes from its wounds. Wounded characters get penalties on all attack and defence rolls, ability checks, skill checks, and saving throws. So currently (with 18 wounds) the owl-bear is at -4 to rolls. 

1-5 wounds: Lightly wounded, no penalty to rolls
6-10 wounds: Moderately Wounded, -1 to rolls.
11-15 wounds: Severely Wounded, -2 to rolls.
16-20 wounds, Critically Wounded, -4 to rolls.



			
				covaithe said:
			
		

> I hope I'm not being a pain about the math. I'm still trying to make sure I've got this GnG thing figured out. Also, that kind of detail really helps me figure out how different circumstances and tactics affect the outcome, which I think are things that it's appropriate for my character to be paying attention to.




No worries about the questions. That's why I posted the crunch. When players are asking questions, I know they are interested enough to read it. I get more worried when no one is asking any questions.

DEFCON, I have both 1H and 2H attacks listed as +7 damage ( have been using the 2H attacks so far. But you are right, the 2H atatck should have a higher (1.5) dam bonus. If my brain was working, I could work it out.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jul 11, 2007)

Another mechanics question.  If I understand right (not at all certain), Assaq should have threatened a critical hit in round 4 and the first attack in round 5.  Since I don't see any crunch for that, I'm guessing he just failed to confirm behind the scenes, or that the owlbear made its save?


----------



## doghead (Jul 12, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

You are correct, *covaithe*. Assaq should have threatened in both round 4 and 5. My apologies, I missed that. For what its worth, I am 5 days away from taking a holiday, and pretty much just hanging in there by my fingernails at the moment. 

*DEFCON*, Mogro is wearing his armour (hence the soak of 10). I figured with the recent events, it would be likely that he would, even if it is something of a nuisance. He doesn't, however, have his horse and lance.

Powerful Charge doesn't seem to be a Core feat. Could you give me the details to look over.

BTW, seeing as Merga has a name, I should probably flesh her out a bit. Any thoughts on what she is like? Any preferences? *Covaithe*, feel free to chime in as well.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Jul 12, 2007)

Whoops!  Sorry about the Powerful Charge thing... it's actually from the Eberron Campaign Setting.  However, it's such a basic rule feat that I forget that it isn't core.  The feat is thus:

- When you Charge, if your melee attack hits, you do an extra 1d8 in damage.

Uusually when I see new feats presented, they tend to be so esoteric or so infrequently useful that I wonder who in their right mind would ever select them.  This is one of those feats where I think is almost part of the basic feat set for a warrior, like Power Attack.  It is so useful that it makes too much sense not to take it.


----------



## doghead (Jul 13, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

*DEFCON*. My first thought was that perhaps it should be a set value bonus, along the lines of the maximum damage dice and sneak attack. But unlike the attacks limited by the maximum damage dice and sneak attack, PA doesn't escalate with level. Humm.

Lets leave it as is for the moment, but with the option to reconsider down the track. If I do change it, you can have the option to swap the feat for another. How does that sound?

doghead
aka thotd.


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## DEFCON 1 (Jul 13, 2007)

That's cool.  I always visualize Powerful Charge as like a variable addition to a person's strength on a Charge attack.  A guy grips his greataxe and rushes at an opponent... and executes a huge overhead swing as he barrels in.  With the added momentum of the charge, the guy's swing becomes even stronger and harder than normal.  (Explaining away the extra d8 in damage.)

If you're okay with it, I'm okay with it.


----------



## doghead (Jul 16, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

How would you guys feel about adopting E6. The fundamental principle is simple: 



			
				rycanada said:
			
		

> - Rules -
> 
> Character progression from level 1 to level 6 is as per D&D. Upon attaining 6th level, for each 5000 experience a character gains, they earn a new feat. A diverse selection of feats should be made available in any E6 campaign, however, feats with unattainable prerequisites under this system remain unattainable.
> 
> For the purpose of experience awards, treat each 5 feats as +1 CR (or level), to an upper limit of 20 feats. After this, a ratio of 10 feats to 1 CR can be used, as it becomes more and more difficult to bring all a character’s feats to bear in a given situation. Alternatively, and at the GM’s option, player-characters with more than 20 feats can simply be always treated as if they were level 10 for experience and challenge purposes.




You can read more in Rycanada's 'Rules - E6: The Game inside DnD'.

The most immediate impact for your characters would be that they would become more 'senior' members of the Horak-krel. This could be simply handled by advancing their backgrounds a few years - Assaq has become a noted and respected hunter, Mogro has spent many years protecting his krel, and gained some renown for it.

For me, the appeal is simple, it keeps the game in the area that I am most familiar with, and comfortable in - the lower levels. No need to stat up or deal with higher level NPC's and more complex monsters. No need to worry about those high-level spells and their impact on the social and economic assumptions the setting is based on. 

The advantage of this for you is I can afford to take a more generous approach to character advancement. I had originally planned to keep levelling fairly slow after 5th, as I noted in the original post.

Anyway, its just a thought. I have no objections to continuing on as we are, and no intentions of changing anything unless you both are happy to do so. If you have any questions, as always, feel free to ask.

Speaking of continuing on, I will be on the road for a couple of days from tomorrow, and probably won't get a chance to post. So feel free to take a break or futz around in the ic thread. 

Here are some more* questions as well, to help the time go faster.

1) What sort of adventures (for want of a better term) would you like to have?
2) What does your character dream of doing with his life?
3) Describe the 'perfect death' for your character.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jul 16, 2007)

I wrote most of a long post with thoughts on E6, most of which were vaguely but not conclusively negative, and then deleted it, 'cause it boils down to this:  I'd prefer to run with things as they are now for a while first, and maybe revisit the idea later, but I'm willing to be outvoted / overruled.  

I'll have a think about the other questions, too.


----------



## doghead (Jul 19, 2007)

Apologies. Run into connectivity difficulties back home. Hopefully will be able to get on line tonight.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## doghead (Jul 21, 2007)

ooc - underdogs

*covaithe*. No problems with that here. I had not planned on moving to E6 unless the support for it was unanimous and fairly enthusiastic. For a long time I have wondered at people's reluctance to try something new. But of late, I have found myself looking at new recruiting threads and thinking, 'that sounds interesting, but I really don't have the energy to get my head around a new set of rules, fundamental concepts whatever'. 

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Jul 23, 2007)

In regards to the E6 rule thingy... I'd actually be quite psyched if the game actually _reached_ the point where using the E6 rules became a possibility!  I've yet to play in an ENWorld PbP game where one of my characters actually went up two levels, let alone the three necessary to move from standard 7th level advancement to the E6 rules in exchange.

So we can certainly table any worries about adopting E6 rules until the point where we actually get our characters up to 5th and 6th levels first.

By the way doghead... we should probably make it clear to anyone who is newly coming into this thread that we are indeed still looking for two more players.  Although the thread title itself indicates we only have 2 of 4... none of our most recent posts would seem to indicate that yes, we are still taking applications.  We should make that abundantly clear because no one has offered up new character ideas since the game itself started.


----------



## Autumn (Jul 23, 2007)

Ooooh, you're still needing players? Nice. I looked at this when recruitment was starting but I saw that you already had a lot of people expressing interest so I just assumed that I was too late to jump aboard. But since that's apparently not so, I guess I'll re-read the pitch and take a look at the IC thread and probably get back to you with a character submission tomorrow.


----------



## Fenris (Jul 24, 2007)

Doghead,
I must apologize. I truely wanted to play in this game, but I am finding that I have no time even for exisiting PbP commitments. I must drop out. This is a great settting, especially the all grell game. And I desperately wanted to finally try GnG, but maybe later. I wish your game well.


----------



## Autumn (Jul 24, 2007)

Okay, let's see here. I went over the GnG rules and they seem interesting, I look forward to trying them out. 

 I'm working on a Druid named Ersh. He'll be a protégé of the krel's shaman, and I'm thinking that perhaps he is a younger son of a particularly war-like Fall. He was a strong and healthy child, and great things were expected from him. But he never did take much to his martial training. He had no enthusiasm for it, preferring to just wander off and spend some time with the goats or wandering around the fields. He was a great disappointment to his father.

 He attracted the shaman's attention in his adolescence and found his niche under his tutelage. He has thrived in the years since and has managed to win back some reluctant respect from his family, but he's still occupying a slightly odd position on the outskirts of respectability in the krel. 

 Physically he's quite imposing, being tall and sturdily built. In contrast though his manner is very gentle and soft-spoken. His brown eyes are bright and inquisitive, and he smiles often. He has long dark hair in coarse braids, strung with beads and talismans. At his side pads a tawny brown mountain lion*, his constant (and somewhat unsettling) companion.  

 * - will be using stats for a leopard, which is on the standard druid list (at -3 effective druid level for determining special abilities). Hope that's okay, a mountain lion seemed more suitable for these environs. 

 * * * 

 How does that sound? Hope it's all alright. I'll be working on the crunch later on today, and I'll have some thoughts on your request for setting suggestions too.


----------



## doghead (Jul 24, 2007)

*DEFCON1*. It seems your words have power. I will also update the first post to better reflect the situation.

*Autumn*, everything described so far sounds good. Feel free to go ahead with the crunchy bits. And welcome.

No problem *Fenris*. I understand how it is, Raven is starting a new game and I have been wanting in on something he runs for ages. But things are a bit tight here, and I am already at my sensible level limit. Thanks for letting us know.

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## covaithe (Jul 24, 2007)

Doghead said:
			
		

> 1) What sort of adventures (for want of a better term) would you like to have?
> 2) What does your character dream of doing with his life?
> 3) Describe the 'perfect death' for your character.




Random brainstorming on these questions.  

1.  I think there's a couple of ways it could go.  If the characters stay local to the village, it seems like most adventures will take the form of defending against threats to the village (goblin invasion, earthquake opens up cave entrance to underground complex, crazy wizard builds a tower nearby, etc.).  That can last a while, but it seems likely that sooner or later, the party will come up with a reason to leave the village and interact with some non-grell, which should be interesting.  Assaq feels a pretty strong sense of duty to the krell, so he isn't likely to strike out adventuring without a good reason.  He'd probably be most comfortable in dungeon crawls (or the above-ground equivalent), so it might be amusing to put him in a city or a roleplaying-heavy adventure and watch him squirm.  But, I confess I do like a good bit of hack'n'slash, and you could get most of the squirming effect by giving him a nice talkative, mischievous PC or NPC to play off of.

2.  Right now, Assaq feels a pretty strong sense of duty to the krell and to the elders, so his goal is to work towards the improvement of life for the krell.  As a player, I think if he saw the right things it wouldn't be too hard to convince him that the kingdom deserves the same loyalty, and to push him in the direction of using whatever talents he has in the kingdom's interests.  As to what that specifically means...  Assaq is currently pretty contented with his life.  He'd like the krell to be more prosperous, but he trusts the elders have the situation pretty well in hand.  In the absence of external events, he'll go on honing his skills at hunting and crafting, with the occasional skirmish with neighbors, probably settle down with some quiet but useful woman, and hope to take his place as an elder himself someday.  

3.  Assaq wouldn't bother to answer if asked, since he'd consider it a silly question, as no one gets to choose their death.  That said, he'd be pretty happy to die in bed surrounded by respectful but quiet grandchildren whose names he's mostly forgotten.  Me, well, I'd like to see him die old as well, but after having achieved something useful for the kingdom, and maybe done something for the status of the grell as well.  If he's got to go out in a blaze of glory, well, that's ok too.


----------



## Autumn (Jul 24, 2007)

A quick question on Soak, as it applies to spells. It seems to me like, as far as I can tell, opponents get to apply their full soak to magical damage, correct? This seems kind of odd to me. Why should someone wearing plate armor take less damage from a fireball than someone wearing chainmail? Or what about a Chill Metal spell... you use it to freeze somebody's armor, so that it deals them damage. But then the soak value from that very same armor prevents them from taking the damage. 

 Am I missing a rule somewhere? Or is this really as counterintuitive as it seems? It seems to make most damage spells entirely useless (touch attacks excepted), since nothing that doesn't get a hit roll stands much chance of doing any damage to a big beastie with lots of soak. And even as far as the touch spells go, it's unlikely that a primary caster is going to have an attack modifier high enough to do big damage.


----------



## doghead (Jul 25, 2007)

ooc - underdogs

*covaithe*. More good material. Once again, thanks. 

*Autumn*. Apologies for the delay in getting back to you. You have some good questions, and I wanted to give them some thought.

The simple answer is yes, soak applies to magical damage as well. Touch attacks get a +4 bonus, since the revised Grim-n-Gritty rules already ignore armor and natural armor for purposes of determining a hit. Big beasties are tough to kill for smaller beasties.

I understand that the changed combat rules will change the effectiveness of some of the spells. Some of the outcomes may be less intuitive than originally - Chill Metal is a good example. I haven't enough experience with the rules to know how significant is the change, nor whether adjustments are desirable. While I want to avoid messing with the rules, I do try to practice 'consider yes'.

Any game system is just a model of reality, and is built upon a number of assumptions. If find the assumptions behind the gng combat rules more intuitive than those behind the d20 combat rules. Which is why I prefer the former.

Hopefully the use of the gng rules won't be a formidable obstacle for you. I think a druid would make a fine addition to the group, and I really like your concept. 

doghead
aka thotd


----------



## Autumn (Jul 25, 2007)

Okay, thanks for the response. 

 Don't worry, it won't be a deal-breaker or anything, I just wanted to check up on it so I could select my spells intelligently. All it means is that I'll focus more on summoning, buffs, healing and general utility whilst missing out some of the blasty options I might otherwise have been tempted to take. 

 I'm off to cook dinner soon, and then I might get caught up with other things, but hopefully there should be no problem getting Ershe polished up and posted sometime this evening.


----------



## Autumn (Jul 25, 2007)

Still need to write up stats for his mountain lion, and name it. Otherwise I think I'm done!

[sblock=Ershe]Ershe
Male Grell
Neutral Good
Druid 4

12 Strength (+1) (2 pts. +2 Racial)
10 Dexterity (+0) (2 pts.)
14 Constitution (+2) (6 pts.)
12 Intelligence (+1) (6 pts., -2 Racial)
17 Wisdom (+3) (10 pts., +1 Level)
12 Charisma (+1) (6 pts., -2 Racial)

BAB: +3
Grapple: +4
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft.
ACP: -0
Soak: 7 (+2 Con, +1 Toughness, +4 Armor)
Defence: +6 (+3 BAB, +3 Shield)

Attack:
Masterwork Scimitar +5, Damage 1d6+1, Crit 18-20/x2

Notes:

Fort Saves: +6 (+4 Base, +2 Con)
Reflex Saves: +1 (+1 Base, +0 Dex)
Will Saves: +7 (+4 Base, +3 Wis)

Notes: 
+4 on saves vs. spell-like abilities of Fey

Feats:
Toughness
Extend Spell

Abilities:
Darkvision 60'
Orc Blood
Animal Companion (Mountain Lion)
Wild Empathy (+5)
Woodland Stride
Trackless Step
Resist Nature's Lure

Skills: (49; max ranks 7/3) 
+9 Concentration (7 ranks, +2 Con)
+5 Diplomacy (4 ranks, +1 Cha)
+5 Handle Animal (4 ranks, +1 Cha)
+12 Heal (7 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 Healer's Kit)
+12 Knowledge (Nature) (7 ranks, +1 Int, +2 Nature Sense, +2 Synergy from Survival)
+8 Perception (5 ranks, +3 Wis)
+2 Speak Grell (1 free rank, +1 Int)
+2 Write Grell (1 rank, +1 Int)
+8 Spellcraft (7 ranks, +1 Int)
+12 Survival (7 ranks, +3 Wis, +2 Nature Sense)

Notes: 
+2 Synergy bonus from Knowledge (Nature) on Survival checks made in natural aboveground environments

Spells: (Caster Level 4)

Level 0: (5/day, DC 13)
<empty slot>
Guidance
Know Direction
Light
Mending

Level 1: (4/day, DC 14)
Calm Animals
Entangle
Magic Fang
Speak with Animals

Level 2: (3/day, DC 15)
Barkskin
Bear's Endurance
Fog Cloud

Equipment: 
+1 Hide Armor (25 lbs, 1,165 gp)
+1 Heavy Wooden Shield (10 lbs, 1,157 gp)
Masterwork Scimitar (4 lbs, 315 gp)
Wand of Cure Light Wounds (750 gp)
Qual's Feather Token (Tree) (400 gp)
2x Potion of Cure Moderate Wounds (600gp)
Potion of Lesser Restoration (300 gp)
Potion of Sanctuary (50 gp)
Potion of Endure Elements (50 gp)

Total Weight: 39 lbs (Light Load)

Vashi
Female Mountain Lion
Medium Animal
Initiative +4
Speed: 40 ft, climb 20 ft
Soak: 3 (1 Natural, 2 Con)
BAB/Grapple: +2/+5
Defence: +6
Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3)
Full Attack: Bite +6 melee (1d6+3) and 2 claws +1 melee (1d3+1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft/5 ft
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Pounce, Rake 1d3+1
Special Qualities: Low-light vision, scent, link, share spells, 1 bonus trick
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +7, Will +2
Abilities: Str 16, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 2, Wis 12, Cha 6
Skills: Balance +12, Climb +11, Hide +8, Jump +11, Listen +6, Move Silently +8, Spot +6
Feats: Alertness, Weapon Finesse

Tricks known: Attack, Come, Defend, Down, Fetch, Seek, Track[/sblock]

 I got quite in to those requests for setting information. Let me know if I'm overstepping the amount of input you wanted and I'll back off. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> Tell me something about the Kingdom - the royal family, the capitol city, the treatment of the minorities, the architecture. Something like that. Whatever takes your fancy.




 Previous rulers had taken an active interest in the 'problem' of the grell - whether from a benevolent (if somewhat condescending) viewpoint, trying to involve them more deeply in the country's affairs, improve their standards of education and so forth... or from a less benevolent viewpoint. Some previous rulers have tried to drive them elsewhere or even wipe them out. 

 The current King, however, particularly as he has grown older, has shown little interest in such affairs. His reign has been long and peaceful, and increasingly he has shown a tendency to restrict his attention to the capitol city. He has embarked on huge projects of restoration and beautification, single-handedly bringing about a classical revival in architecture and making the capitol a truly impressive and glorious city.

 The provinces however - including the grellish krels - have been largely neglected, to many people's dissatisfaction. Government seems to care little for its people outside the capitol. The King was tremendously popular at the start of his reign as a war hero, and so many are reluctant to blame him for what they see as the shortcomings of his rule. Rumors have spread that certain of his advisers are abusing their positions. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> Tell me something about Horak-krel or grell society in general.




 With the King largely blind to what occurs outside the capitol, his many children and grandchildren along with the rest of the hereditary nobility are left to vie for influence over the provinces. 

 Horak-krel is on the border between two provinces, Essia and Thrant.* The Duke of Essia, a Grandson of the King, is particularly domineering and has claimed that Horak-krel lies within Essia. On that basis, he has attempted to levy taxes. The krels have always been very independent and have never dealt much with cash; for those reasons, they have traditionally been exempted from taxation on the understanding that they provide a well-trained militia in wartime and that they keep up friendly relations with neighboring human settlements. 

 Obviously then this has called quite an outcry. The krel's elders have refused to pay, and for now the situation is unresolved.

*don't know if you had anything in mind for local human naming conventions. I just picked some random names, let me know if you don't like 'em. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> Tell me something about your character's Fall.




 Ershe's father's Fall is one of the largest and most influential in Horak-krel. His father Darmed is the patriarch of the Fall and a greatly respected person, probably the krel's most seasoned and skilled warrior. He is part of a proud military tradition in the Fall, which claims to be the oldest in the krel and boasts that it has always produced the strongest and hardiest warriors around.

 However, since Ershe was never much of a fighter - despite intensive training and urging from his father - it's been a long time since he has dealt much with his father's fall. His mother's home is much less remarkable, a respectable and moderately sized fall with none of the airs and graces of his father's.


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## doghead (Jul 26, 2007)

Autumn. I'm pleased that you got into the questions, and there is no need to back off. On first reading, pretty much everything looks like it can go straight into the setting material. While some of the details differ, some of the basic concepts are ery close to things I have been thinking. Nice work. Thanks.

Had a quick look at Ershe. All seems pretty straight so far. You can get him up in the RG, and into the IC threads whenever you are ready.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Zadam (Jul 26, 2007)

Hi guys, just saw this thread, sounds interesting... Is there room for one more?


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## doghead (Jul 26, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

*Autumn*. I didn't really have any naming conventions in mind when I started. However, the grell names I are tending to be Arabic in flavour. So Hellian names I think will probably be more Baltic sounding. 

*Zadam*, there is indeed one more open slot. The first few posts have all the basic information. But in summary, start with a concept. When we are good with that, you can move to the mechanical bits. Once you have the all clear on that, you are in. There are half a dozen questions I would like your thoughts on. I'm not sure if they are in the first post - I hould make sure that they are there.

doghead
aka thotd


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## DEFCON 1 (Jul 26, 2007)

By the by... here are my responses for the other questions you posed, doghead.

1) What sort of adventures (for want of a better term) would you like to have?

We already seem to be moving in this direction with the gnoll problem... but I kind of like the idea of just dealing with events that happen upon the krel over time.  There are plenty of "world-spanning" adventures in all other manner of ENWorld PbP games... so simple things like an owlbear comes out of the forest, or a village of gnolls make an appearance on their land are easy, simple, and straightforward incidents to roleplay and deal with.

Working within the politics of the village and dealing with the influences that are put upon it and a nice change of pace.  It also makes for easy additions into and out of the group, since all the potential grel characters are right here in one place.

2) What does your character dream of doing with his life?

It's already in his bio, but Mogro wants to become a better and more well-respected warrior so that he can follow in his father's footsteps and work for one of the mercenary companies within the kingdom.  This is why he has Mounted Combat and spent most of his his money on a Heavy Warhorse... he is preparing for the day he can join his father's company.

3) Describe the 'perfect death' for your character.

Defending the kingdom from some outside threat at the side of his father.


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## Zadam (Jul 29, 2007)

Good to see theres still a slot open.  I suppose the party could do with a Rogue, and I tend to like playing them so that works out quite well.  Heres some info about the character.

Name: Adokul Wyvernjack
Class: Rogue
Alignment: CN

A tormented soul.  Adokul never knew his mother, and all he knew of his father was that he was a harsh and cruel son of a bitch.  When Adokul was 14 he stabbed his father to death while he slept.

The harsh upbringing and start to life he received have made him very cynical, selfish and very suspicious of everyone.  He has no real friends, just contacts and acquaintances who have proven to be beneficial to Adokul in some way.  He has no qualms about using or killing people for his own ends, some even suspect he gets pleasure from it.  In reality whenever he makes a kill Adokul is always reminded of his own father dieing by his hand all those years ago, and the feelings he experiences are both sweet and bitter.

Adokul has made a name for himself as the person to see if you need some "less than reputable" work done.  Just make sure you keep up your end of the bargain.


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## doghead (Jul 29, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs.

OK. Let me know what your characters want to do, if anything, for the next few hours. It usually takes that long for a decision.

Also, a quick word on my gaming style. I believe strongly in character independence. If your characters all decide that they want to sign up for the next caravan and see the world, then that's where we will go. I do have a tendency to write adventures with a particular narrative in mind. Its just the way my brain works. And sometimes, the narrative path is fairly obvious - like a set of railway tracks through a desert obvious. But don't feel that your characters have to go that way.

*Autumn* Does Ershe have a family/Fall name? Also, do you have any thought as to the make up of the Fall? How about the cronies?

*Zadam* Interesting background. The group is starting to get some interesting dynamics. I have a couple of questions. What happened after Adokul stabbed his father? Was it discovered Adokul did it? If so, were there repercussions? Did he stay with his Fall, or was he sent away? The latter might mean Adokul is not originally from Horak-krel. There are several others. If you want himto be something of an outside, this might be  a good option. If you choose this path, you will also be pretty much free to outline his original krel.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Zadam (Jul 30, 2007)

*What happened after Adokul stabbed his father? *

Adokul knew that there would be no doubt in anyones mind that it was he who had killed his father, and thought that he would probably be punished very severely.  He fled the village that night and never returned.


*Was it discovered Adokul did it?  If so, were there repercussions?  Did he stay with his Fall, or was he sent away?*

The fact that Adokul fled the scene left no doubt to anyone that he had done it.  However it was decided that Adokul had done two favors that night to the village, by removing his father whom everyone loathed, as well as himself from it.  Everyone only knew Adokul as a trouble maker, and assumed he would end up just like his father.  They decided to let him go and he was never pursued.

The result of all this was that he drifted from place to place, never lingering for very long before moving on.  Often he was told to leave or physically chased away once people discovered his true nature.  As he got a bit older however he learned how to be more discrete with his nature, and also learned how to make a living using his dark skills.


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## doghead (Jul 30, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

Zadam. I have a suggestion: after killing his father, Adokul's fate would have been much worse if it had not been for the intervention of the krel shaman. Sympathetic to the boy's situation, the shaman arranged for Adokul to be taken in by another clan in a different krel. (This could be Horak, but need not be. Adokul can still have moved on since then. Regardless, he will need a Fall, as pretty much every grell lives in a fall. It could be one of the PC's if the player in question agrees. Or one of your own devising.) Adokul's deed would remain unspoken, he would have a fresh start (of course, it is still possible that rumours of his action have travelled around the grel communities). But with the assistance came a debt - Adokul is required to serve the any shaman when requested to do so. The debt will endure until Adokul becomes a father himself.

Its unlikely that the shaman would call on Adokul often. Such a obligation would not be used lightly. Adokul is probably required to present himself to the shaman of a krel he stays at and make his debt known. Failure to do so, if discovered, would probably incur some form of punishment.

The advantage of this, for me, is it ties the character to a key NPC and thus indirectly, to one of the PC's (although I would say Ershe would not be aware of the debt at this stage, nor able to compel Adokul if he was). Given the way the characters are shaping up, it is likely that the shaman will be something of a key plot mechanism.

Its up to you.

Regardless, I still need some idea of which Fall Adokul is staying with, and the relationship with that clan. It could be family, friendship, or even just hired on as a worker. If he is not staying with any particular Fall, I'll need some idea of his living arrangements. If there is something you want to do, but are not sure how to arrange it, let me know and we can work something out.

btw, how are you going with the crunchy bits?

doghead
aka thotd


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## Zadam (Jul 30, 2007)

doghead, your suggestions sound good to me, I am happy to go with the Shaman intervention scenario.  Will post a little later about the Fall question.  In the mean time heres a preliminary char sheet:


```
Name: Adokul Wyvernjack
Class: Rogue 4	
Race: Grell (Half-Orc)
Size: M
Gender: Male
Alignment: CN
Deity:  

Level: 4   XP: 0   BAB: +3

Str: 16	(+3)
Dex: 16	(+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 12	(+1)
Wis: 8	(-1)
Cha: 10	(+0)

Defence: BAB: (+3)	Dex: (+3)	Dodge: (+1)	Total: (+7)
Soak: 	Con: (+2)	Armor: (+4)	Toughnes: (+1)	Total: (+7)

	Total	Base	Mod	Misc
Fort:	+3	+1	+2	--
Ref:	+6	+3	+3	--
Will:	+0	+1	-1	--
Notes:

Weapon		Attack	Damage	Critical	Range	Notes
Short Sword	+8	1d6+4	8/+0		Melee	
Dagger		+6	1d4+3	8/+0		10 ft
Sap		+6	1d6+3	10/+0		Melee

Notes: 

Languages: Grell, Trader

Abilities: Special bonus: +8 SP at 1st lvl and +2 SP per level after.
Rogue: Sneak Attack +4, Trapfinding, Evasion (take no damage when 
reflex save gives half damage), Trap Sence +1, Uncanny Dodge

Half Orc Traits:
Medium: As Medium creatures, Half Orcs have no special bonuses or 
penalties due to their size. 
Base land speed is 30 feet. 

Feats: Weapon Focus (Short Sword +1 attack), Toughness (+1 soak), Dodge (+1 Def)


Skill Points: 77	Max Ranks: 7
Skills			Total	Ranks	Mod 	Misc
Write Grell (int)	-	1	-
Speak Trader (int)	-	1	-
Stealth	(dex)		10	7	+3
Climb (str)		10	7	+3
Disable Device (int)	8	7	+1
Escape Artist (dex)	10	7	+3
Jump (str)		10	7	+3
Open Lock (dex)		10	7	+3
Balance	(dex)		10	7	+3
Bluff (cha)		7	7	+0
Appraise (int)		8	7	+1
Perception (wis)	6	7	-1
Survival (wis)		4	5	-1


Notes:

GP: 406
Equipment:				Cost	Weight
Short Sword +1				2310
4 * Dagger				8gp
Sap					1gp
Studded Leather Armor +1		1175
2 * Elixir of Stealth (+10 for 1 hour)	500
2 * Cure Moderate Wounds		600


Age: 20
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 220
Eyes: Green
Hair: Brown
Skin: Dark
```


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## Autumn (Jul 30, 2007)

Oops, I missed a set of questions! So, these first, and then the latest ones. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> 1) What sort of adventures (for want of a better term) would you like to have?




 As a player I'm quite flexible. I can enjoy hack-and-slash dungeon crawling if it's done well. But I guess that's not quite where my preferences lie... I'm more into intrigue, mystery, politics and so on, with some action thrown in to keep the pace up. On that 'what kind of roleplayer are you' test that does the rounds now and then I come up as mostly 'Method Actor' if I remember rightly - though I'm not one of these people who will do anything, no matter how disruptive, and excuse it with 'I was just playing my character'. 

 So... meh. I guess I'm skirting the question. I suppose that what I'd really love is to spend some time getting involved with the setting and characters with some simple stuff ('an Owlbear comes out of the forest and attacks' or 'some gnolls move in near the krel' are great examples) before maybe getting involved with some more complicated plots and schemes. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> 2) What does your character dream of doing with his life?




 Ershe is a dreamer at heart, and he has some big ideas. He hopes that one day the grell will become united and claim the dignity and respect that they deserve. He hopes they can shake off the brutish influence of people like his father and embrace a more spiritual and enlightened attitude. He sees a lot of potential and a lot of goodness in his people, and he likes to hope that one day they will realize that potential more fully. His greatest ambition is to someday rise to a position where he can lead his people towards that destiny. 



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> 3) Describe the 'perfect death' for your character.




 He hopes to die peacefully in old age, having achieved respect and honor and set his people on a track that he can believe will lead them on to better things. But that's his own idea of a perfect death... we don't get to choose the way we go, and perhaps from a different standpoint it would be more fitting for him to meet an untimely end and provide some kind of inspiration in doing so. 

 But hey, we'll see how it goes. 



 Aaaand on to the latest question.



			
				doghead said:
			
		

> *Autumn* Does Ershe have a family/Fall name? Also, do you have any thought as to the make up of the Fall? How about the cronies?




 Well I guess that yes, Ershe must surely have a family/Fall name, but I'm unsure about this. Do grell take their family names from their fathers or their mothers? 

 Hmm, names for Falls... Broken-Fall? Night-Fall? Feather-Fall? 

 ahem.   

 Let's call his father's Kharad-Fall and his mother's Ashran-Fall. 

 I've talked a little about his father's fall already - militaristic, rather arrogant. Ershe's father is the patriarch of Kharad-Fall, and so he never has any shortage of men willing to trail after him in an entourage in the hopes of finding favor. How the fall treats its children tends to depend on their own abilities. If they are strong and tough and take well to martial training then they will be adopted into the fall and earn places of honor there. If, like Ershe, they do not, they will be more likely passed off on the Fall of their other parent. He was lucky in that his connection to the Fall was through his father. It's a tough childhood for those unfortunate enough to be born to a Kharad-Fall woman while showing no flair for the martial life. 

 As for Ashran-Fall, it's smaller and humbler than Kharad-Fall but better respected among those grell who judge a person by more than just the strength of their sword arm. Ashran grell tend to solidly respectable quiet sort of lives. Ershe's mother is a seamstress. Potters, tailors, butchers and brewers are the sort of people that Ashran's children are likely to grow into. The last of those trades bears special mention, since it's generally acknowledged that Garrad of Ashran-Fall - an old man now - makes the best ale anybody in Horak-krel has ever tasted. 

 If it is up to Ershe which family name he takes then he'll feel no hesitation whatsoever in plumping for his mother's side. Would that make him Ershe Ashran? Ershe of Ashran? Ershe of Ashran-Fall? The last one sounds best to me, but if you already had ideas (or if you already laid out naming conventions somewhere I missed) then of course that's fine.


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## Zadam (Jul 31, 2007)

> Regardless, I still need some idea of which Fall Adokul is staying with, and the relationship with that clan. It could be family, friendship, or even just hired on as a worker. If he is not staying with any particular Fall, I'll need some idea of his living arrangements. If there is something you want to do, but are not sure how to arrange it, let me know and we can work something out.




OK, I figure that after a few years with the Krel Shaman, Adokul decided to leave as he knew no one in the Fall could ever trust him again.  After wandering from place to place for several years, working as a bit of a thief/mercenary for hire, he ended up in Horak-krel where the Kharad Fall decided to hire him as a worker.

He was officially hired as a lowly grunt, but unofficially they started using him to take care of certain "Sensitive" matters that are best not known by the general population.  A bit of a covert spy/assassin mostly.  Adokul has been working for them for a bit over a year now, but is still not highly trusted by most, although the higher powers have come to depend on his skills, and the advantages those skills can bring to them.


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## doghead (Jul 31, 2007)

ooc - underdogs

*Zadam*. A couple of things. Magical weapons have to have a +1 bonus before special abilities can be added. So a +1 frost weapon costs the same as a +2 weapon, or 8,000 gp. With the weapon base cost of 310 gp for a masterwork +1 short sword (and enchanted weapons all have to be masterwork), that gives you 8,310 gp. A straight +1 weapon would be fine.

You are in the same boat as *covaithe* with this, he wanted a flaming weapon. So perhaps down the track I'll see what I can do about having the characters run into someone who can add enchantments to weapons. Its much cooler than just tossing the old and getting a new weapon.

Also, Write Grell and Speak Trader only require 2 points. My post was a bit confusing I realise, I included my musings on the subject before deciding to go with the regular rules. Keep in mind that, unlike 'adventurers', the characters need some way of making a living, or contributing to their Fall on a day to day basis. 

Otherwise, you are good for the RG and IC threads.

Edit: *Zadam* Just saw your last post. Its all good. I'm thinking that Grakk fall and Kharad fall would be fairly closely aligned, as they share a similar outlook. Or, to make things even more interesting, Adokul is working for Kharad fall, which is Ershe's fathers fall. Ershe and his father don't see eye to eye, to put it mildly. Having Adokul become part of Kharad fall, one of Ershe's father's coterie could be interesting. I'll leave you two to sort that out.

*Autumn*, thanks for the responces. Very helpful. 

doghead
aka thotd


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## Zadam (Jul 31, 2007)

Ahh yes, I had forgotten that a weapon needed to be +1 on top of any other enchantments it might have.  Personally I find this to be a bit of an odd rule, but so be it.  I have updated the character sheet with all the new info, including weapon and skills.

I like your suggestion about Kharad Fall, and I think I will update the post I made to reflect this.


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## doghead (Aug 2, 2007)

Apologies. Big couple of days, I'll get a post up tomorrow. Nice posts, brought a smile to my face.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Aug 9, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

I've just got back to the farm, trying to sort out the house and get my head around my new responsibilities. Will get something up in a day or two.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Aug 15, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

Nice ic work. I'm really enjoying reading it. 

I'm not that familier with magic - spells and items. I had a look through the druid spells for anything that the shaman might use, but nothing jumped out at me. If you have any thoughts or suggestions, feel free to post them here.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Zadam (Aug 24, 2007)

I think we are pretty much done in the meeting with the Shaman, what does everyone think about skipping forward to when the party sets out?


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## covaithe (Aug 24, 2007)

Yeah, I think that's right.  I think we're just waiting IC for the shaman to tell us that he doesn't have anything else to say.


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## Zadam (Aug 31, 2007)

Err, whats going on?


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## covaithe (Aug 31, 2007)

Doghead was last logged in 10 days ago....


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## Autumn (Aug 31, 2007)

Doghead posted that he'll be away for a little while. Let's just hang tight, I'm sure he'll be back.


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## covaithe (Aug 31, 2007)

Ah, thanks Autumn.  I usually check my threads via subscription, rather than going through the forum interface, so I'd missed that.  I feel better now.


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## Zadam (Sep 3, 2007)

OK phew I was getting a bit worried there, I kinda liked the story so far, really didn't want it to get abandoned!


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## doghead (Sep 7, 2007)

Hey everyone. I apologise for not posting here. But I was ... um, tired would be the best word. Anyways, I have found both the threads, and will catch and post up asap.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Sep 10, 2007)

OK, I think we are pretty much ready to move on. 

Before heading out, please make sure that your character sheets are up to date. Feel free to add simple mundane equipment as required - anything in the couple of gp range (backpacks, blankets, rations etc) your characters should be able to get from their Fall.

Its approaching midnight.
Its not snowing, but snow is still thick on the ground.
The night is slightly overcast.
Its cold.

DEFCON, just wanted to check that you realise that the terrain will not be ideal for horses. Not imposible, maybe. Mogro would know this. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't an info gap lurking there.

Um, can't think of anything else.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Sep 14, 2007)

Did someone indicate that they were going to be away for a bit? I'm hoping that it was Zadam, and we haven't lost him. I'll wait until tonight, then post up iC.

*covaithe*, yeah, I don't expect everyone to count pennies for mundane everyday stuff like backpacks and blankets. Also, Assaq will have understood the map and should be able to navigate a way to the indicated location for the gnolls. I'm taking the check results to indicate that he isn't _intimately_ familier with the area, thus may need to make some survival rolls in order to find the best route.

A couple of quick thoughts on style. Most cretures will surrender or run before being killed. Intelligent creatures may choose not to fight if the odds are obviously against them. Intelligent creatures will generally freeze is a knife is held at their throat, or a crossbow is leveled at them. I thought that I would mention it ass these are not always charcateristic of dnd type encounters.

One last thought - the rules are not clear on what happens to bab defense bonuses when surprised or flat-footed. One reading is that characters will lose all defense bonuses. This, obviously, can be lethal. The other is that bab bonuses generally are retained. Call it a soldiers instinct. The (rare) exception is when a character is completely unsuspecting of the threat. I generally play the latter. But I thought that I would give you a choice. Obviously, its a blade that cuts both ways.

doghead
aka thotd


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## DEFCON 1 (Sep 14, 2007)

doghead said:
			
		

> DEFCON, just wanted to check that you realise that the terrain will not be ideal for horses. Not imposible, maybe. Mogro would know this. Just wanted to make sure that there wasn't an info gap lurking there.



Yup... I'm all set.  When the time comes, Mogro will get off his horse and walk him as needed (through the trees, over the rocks etc.)  But I figured that if things went to hell in a handbasket, having the faster transportation to return to the village would be useful.

Plus, from a character p.o.v... Mogro wouldn't want to go out to battle without his warhorse, as that is what most of his training is in.


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## doghead (Sep 18, 2007)

Just tried to contact *Zadam* via his profile, but no can do. If possible, could everyone enable the 'contact this person by email' function in their profiles? It doesn't, from what I can see, make your email address publically available, and means that I have some way of contacting you if RL comes along and bites you on the ... whatever.

And vice versa, of course. Um, I mean that you can contact me, not that _you_ can bite RL on its ... er ... You know what I mean.

Anyways, if Zadam doesn't re-appear I am thinking of offering up his character to any ghost hackers out there, with the option of creating their own when an opportune moment approaches. If there are no objections. Meanwhile, feel free to ghost hack him amoung yourselves. It will work on a first come, first served basis. If no one posts for Adokul, I'll ghost him.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Sep 19, 2007)

ic - Underdogs

The IC thread has dropped of the first page and is half way down the second with no responses. Everyone has checked in today, so I am getting the feeling that I am losing your interest. My absence didn't help the game's momentum. And the overland journey section hasn't quiet played out as I was hoping - I had hoped that the series of un-attributed rolls would create a feeling of anticipation or suspense. Good in theory ...

If you are feeling a little 'meh' about the game, do let me know. Things should get a little more eventful soon. And if there are other issues, I will see what I can do to address them.

doghead
aka thotd


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## covaithe (Sep 19, 2007)

Sorry, I meant to post yesterday but got sidetracked.  Some nonsense about a job interview, or something.  I think I would have felt more suspense from your unattributed rolls if I hadn't just recently read the rules on survival checks to avoid getting lost, because the players in the tabletop game I run are going to be finding their way through a swamp next session.  

(Of course I could still be wrong about what those rolls are for, but that's how I interpreted those rolls.)


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## doghead (Sep 19, 2007)

Yeah, kind of. I had a little more tacked on. But the DC's for the easier route were fairly low.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Autumn (Sep 19, 2007)

Apologies; the game just slipped through my net. I find that when a game has been active - 5+ posts per day - I have no problem remembering to check it, but in my slower-moving games I can sometimes miss updates.

 Obviously that's not a problem with the game, it's a problem with me, and I'm working on it. I'm still really enjoying this game, and eagerly anticipating what's going to happen with the gnolls.


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## doghead (Sep 22, 2007)

OK. If anyone does start feeling a bit 'meh', do speak up. Seriously. 

*covaithe*, the characters probably have a couple of rounds, rather than minutes, before 'contact'. Putting on armour, even hastily, will take at least 5 rounds for hide, and 1 minute for Mogro.

Some more thoughts:

* the campsite provides reasonable cover and concealment in the form of trees and small boulders.
* the campsight is slightly elevated, giving defenders a slight advantage.

Not trying to push you along any particular course of action - just trying think of anything that might help you make decisions.

doghead
aka thotd


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## covaithe (Sep 22, 2007)

To be honest I didn't remember the rules for putting on and taking off armor, I just had a vague idea that it took less time if you had someone helping you.  If there isn't time, there isn't time.  In other words, if Assaq notices the voices getting close, or sees movement, he'll leave off helping anyone with armor and start pointing them towards defensive positions.  In particular, he'll use gestures to try to get Adokul to hide and look for a backstab.  If you like I can post to that effect IC, but it would probably make more sense to do it in response to being told that the voices are getting closer, or whatever.  

You probably already have this in mind, but I only just remembered, so it can't hurt to remind you that Assaq has goblinoids as his favored enemy.


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## doghead (Sep 22, 2007)

ic - Underdogs

Having assistance will help Mogro with his banded, but not Ershe with hide armour. The times above are for hastily donning armour, which doesn't seem to get any benefit from having a second person helping.

There probably isn't time and Assaq would be able to guess that. Rereading the ic post, that isn't as clear as I wanted. I'll edit it.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Sep 25, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

I'll put this here to save cluttering the ic thread and having to stuff around with sblocks.



> I'm at a bit of an impasse here. What is the nature of the krel's relationship to goblins in general, and to whatever nearby goblin tribes there are in particular? Assaq has goblinoids as a favored enemy, so I assume there's at least fairly regular conflict, and that Assaq isn't too fond of them. But are they kill-on-sight enemies, or would violence be saved as a last resort? And how strange is it to see goblins here, less than a day's march from the krel? Is it commonplace, or would it be a reason for a call to arms?
> 
> I'm leaning towards attacking them first anyways, on the presumption that goblins have no legitimate business being here, but I might change my mind if it's normal for them to be here.






> I'm likewise at a little bit of an impasse in need of more information. Particularly, does the krel have precautions against raiding parties of goblins? If we let these slip by, roughly how likely is it that they could cause serious damage? Are there farms and holdings outside the Falls that they could raid? And are they even headed towards the krel?




Hopefully this answers your questions. 

The relationship between the grel and the goblins is less than friendly. But not outright hostile. The goblins are something like a persistent low level nuisance. They prefer to steal than fight. Goblin bands are more of a threat to lone travellers or hunters. If there is a chance to kill and loot without anyone knowing they did it, some goblins might take the opportunity. On occasion, the goblins have been known to launch sustained raids on the kingdom - caravans and outlying communities are the most common target. But such actions usually result in a retaliation that leaves the goblins worse off than when they started. So they are uncommon.

Goblins this close to the krel is not unheard of. Goblins also use the forest for hunting. Assaq would likely have had crossed paths with goblins, or the signs of their passing, before. Every year, at least a couple of Falls suffer loses of stock to goblin raids. Mostly on herds being grazed in the higher pastures.

Some in the krel take a 'kill on sight' approach to goblins. Others tend to take a more 'i don't bother them if they don't bother me' approach. Generally, the krel doesn't have any scouts keeping watch for goblin threats. If hunters or woodcutters spot signs of goblin activity in the surrounding area, everyone might be a bit more cautious for a while. But if nothing happens, and usually it doesn't, they soon go back to business as usual. Of course, at the moment (with the gnolls and all), its likely that the krel does have sentries posted and warriors ready. So a band this size would pose little danger. Also, if the goblins following the river downstream, they are unlikely to be heading towards the krel. The river eventually crosses on of the main trade route out of the Kingdom. So following it will take them into the kingdom, and there are human farms and villages that way. 

So in a nutshell, the presence of a goblin band of three in this area isn't that surprising and doesn't necessarily pose a threat to the krel. But generally, most would agree that goblins in the area is never a good sign.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Sep 26, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

We seem to have lost a player, so I am looking for a new one to fill the gap. _Underdogs_ is a core only dnd game. The current characters are four half orcs (called grell in this setting) all from the same settlement in the Kingdom of Hella. Hella is a fairly convential 'vanilla' fantasy setting. Half orcs in Hella live on the fringes of the Kingdom, both geographically and culturally. The current characters are a fighter, a druid, a ranger and a rogue, all level 4. The missing player played the rogue.

If you are interested, have a look at the first few posts of this thread. If you are still interested post up a concept. The character should be a grel from the same settlement, and be able to work in with the other three characters. The three current players will have a say in any submissions.

If you have any questions, feel free to ask. 

doghead
aka thotd


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## Autumn (Sep 26, 2007)

Cool, fingers crossed we get some response from potential replacements. 

  Apologies for the proliferation of OOC questions rather than IC action, but I have another quickie... do Goblins tend to speak Trader?


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## doghead (Sep 26, 2007)

No problem with the questions. Most of this is just my thoughts on the matter. None of it is set in stone, so if you have any thoughts on the ideas presented, feel free to post them up. Sometimes I have thought the stuff out before hand, sometimes I haven't. 

So, to the question at hand. Er, probably not much I think. 

I was thinking that the goblins are fairly isolationist. They spend most of their time competing with each other to raise the status of their clan within their tribe,and their tribe among the clans. One of the reasons goblins are considered so 'unpredictable' is that there are almost no lines of communication between them and the Kingdom or others with whom the kingdom has open lines of communication. There is very little interaction between them and the rest of the world, even in trade. Which makes them something of a rarity in the world.

Of course, they do raid the outside world now and then. So some goblins may have picked up Trader. Or possibly even Dornish.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Voda Vosa (Sep 26, 2007)

Well I love playing rouges, I'll certainly would be interested in filling the gap.


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## doghead (Sep 27, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

Hey Voda, another rogue would work nicely. The current party make up is quite nicely balanced. So the next step is to give me a character concept. Just a couple of paragraphs - personality, history, description at this stage. When that's all sorted, we can do the mechanics.

Meanwhile, if you would like to ghost Adokul (the current rogue) that would be great. It means that you could jump right in until we have a chance to insert your character. And it also means I don't have to do it. I've never been fond of ghosting PC's.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Voda Vosa (Sep 27, 2007)

All rigthy then, if you would like, I'll have something for tonight, or tomorrow.


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## doghead (Sep 28, 2007)

Voda

Zadam didn't get around to posting Adokul in the RG thread. So to save you hunting around the ooc thread, I gathered the main bits below. If you wish to ghost him, you can jump right into the ic thread.

[sblock=Adokul]Name: Adokul Wyvernjack
Class: Rogue 4	
Race: Grell (Half-Orc)
Size: M
Gender: Male
Alignment: CN
Deity:  

Level: 4   XP: 0   BAB: +3

Str: 16	(+3)
Dex: 16	(+3)
Con: 14 (+2)
Int: 12	(+1)
Wis: 8	(-1)
Cha: 10	(+0)

Defence: BAB: (+3)	Dex: (+3)	Dodge: (+1)	Total: (+7)
Soak: 	Con: (+2)	Armor: (+4)	Toughnes: (+1)	Total: (+7)

	Total	Base	Mod	Misc
Fort:	+3	+1	+2	--
Ref:	+6	+3	+3	--
Will:	+0	+1	-1	--
Notes:

Weapon		Attack	Damage	Critical	Range	Notes
Short Sword	+8	1d6+4	8/+0		Melee	
Dagger		+6	1d4+3	8/+0		10 ft
Sap		+6	1d6+3	10/+0		Melee

Notes: 

Languages: Grell, Trader

Abilities: Special bonus: +8 SP at 1st lvl and +2 SP per level after.
Rogue: Sneak Attack +4, Trapfinding, Evasion (take no damage when 
reflex save gives half damage), Trap Sence +1, Uncanny Dodge

Half Orc Traits:
Medium: As Medium creatures, Half Orcs have no special bonuses or 
penalties due to their size. 
Base land speed is 30 feet. 

Feats: Weapon Focus (Short Sword +1 attack), Toughness (+1 soak), Dodge (+1 Def)


Skill Points: 77	Max Ranks: 7
Skills			Total	Ranks	Mod 	Misc
Write Grell (int)	-	1	-
Speak Trader (int)	-	1	-
Stealth	(dex)		10	7	+3
Climb (str)		10	7	+3
Disable Device (int)	8	7	+1
Escape Artist (dex)	10	7	+3
Jump (str)		10	7	+3
Open Lock (dex)		10	7	+3
Balance	(dex)		10	7	+3
Bluff (cha)		7	7	+0
Appraise (int)		8	7	+1
Perception (wis)	6	7	-1
Survival (wis)		4	5	-1


Notes:

GP: 406
Equipment:				Cost	Weight
Short Sword +1				2310
4 * Dagger				8gp
Sap					1gp
Studded Leather Armor +1		1175
2 * Elixir of Stealth (+10 for 1 hour)	500
2 * Cure Moderate Wounds		600


Age: 20
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 220
Eyes: Green
Hair: Brown
Skin: Dark

Background

A tormented soul.  Adokul never knew his mother, and all he knew of his father was that he was a harsh and cruel son of a bitch.  When Adokul was 14 he stabbed his father to death while he slept.

The harsh upbringing and start to life he received have made him very cynical, selfish and very suspicious of everyone.  He has no real friends, just contacts and acquaintances who have proven to be beneficial to Adokul in some way.  He has no qualms about using or killing people for his own ends, some even suspect he gets pleasure from it.  In reality whenever he makes a kill Adokul is always reminded of his own father dieing by his hand all those years ago, and the feelings he experiences are both sweet and bitter.

Adokul has made a name for himself as the person to see if you need some "less than reputable" work done.  Just make sure you keep up your end of the bargain.

***

Adokul's fate would have been much worse if it had not been for the intervention of the krel shaman. Sympathetic to the boy's situation, the shaman arranged for Adokul to be taken in by another clan in a different krel. (This could be Horak, but need not be. Adokul can still have moved on since then. Regardless, he will need a Fall, as pretty much every grell lives in a fall. It could be one of the PC's if the player in question agrees. Or one of your own devising.) Adokul's deed would remain unspoken, he would have a fresh start (of course, it is still possible that rumours of his action have travelled around the grel communities). But with the assistance came a debt - Adokul is required to serve any shaman when requested to do so. The debt will endure until Adokul becomes a father himself.

Its unlikely that the shaman would call on Adokul often. Such a obligation would not be used lightly. Adokul is probably required to present himself to the shaman of a krel he stays at and make his debt known. Failure to do so, if discovered, would probably incur some form of punishment

***

OK, I figure that after a few years with the Krel Shaman, Adokul decided to leave as he knew no one in the Fall could ever trust him again.  After wandering from place to place for several years, working as a bit of a thief/mercenary for hire, he ended up in Horak-krel where the Kharad Fall decided to hire him as a worker.

He was officially hired as a lowly grunt, but unofficially they started using him to take care of certain "Sensitive" matters that are best not known by the general population.  A bit of a covert spy/assassin mostly.  Adokul has been working for them for a bit over a year now, but is still not highly trusted by most, although the higher powers have come to depend on his skills, and the advantages those skills can bring to them.[/sblock]


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## doghead (Sep 29, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

I'm going to be heading off tomorrow to work on a farm for a bit. So I may not log on for a day or two. After that, my access probably won't be daily, but hopefully I will be able to keep a 48 hour turn around.

What I need to know now is the character's plan of action. I shall have access for the next 16 hours or so. So if you have any questions ...

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Oct 6, 2007)

OK. I'm settled in sort of. Its still a bit temporary, but that should be sorted by the end of next week. But internet access has been sorted, which is the main thing. So first thing is find out where the threads are at. Then I'll write up some responses and post them up.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Nov 1, 2007)

Just got back to town. Read thread - will write and post a response tonight.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Nov 2, 2007)

*Adokul Wyvernjack, Male Grell Rogue 4* 
[SBLOCK]
INITIATIVE +3. PERCEPTION +6.
LANGUAGES: Speak Grell, Write Grell, Speak Trader.
----------------------
DEFENCE +7. SOAK +7.
FORT +3. REFL +6. WILL +0.
----------------------
SPEED 30 ft.
BASE ATTACK +3.
* +1 short-sword +8 melee (1d6+4, 8/+0)
* dagger +6 melee (1d4+3, 8/+0)
* dagger +6 range (1d4+3, 8/+0, 10 ft.)
* sap +6 melee (1d6+3, 10/+0)
ATTACK OPTIONS: Sneak Attack (+4).
----------------------
ABILITIES: STR 16, DEX 16, CON 14, INT 12, WIS 8, CHA 10.
RACIAL ABILITIES: Dark vision 60 ft.
CLASS ABILITIES: Trap-finding +1, Evasion, Uncanny Dodge.
FEATS: Dodge, Toughness, Weapon Focus (short-sword).
SKILLS: Stealth	(dex) +10, Climb (str) +10, Disable Device (int) +8, Escape Artist (dex) +10, Jump (str) +10, Open Lock (dex) +10, Balance	(dex) +10, Bluff (cha) +7, Appraise (int) +8, Perception (wis) +6, Survival (wis) +4.
----------------------
EQUIPMENT: +1 short-sword, dagger x4, sap, +1 studded leather armour, potion x2 (Elixir of Stealth, +10 bonus for 1 hour), potion x2 (CMW), 406 gp.[/SBLOCK]

Age: 20
Height: 6'1"
Weight: 220
Eyes: Green
Hair: Brown
Skin: Dark

BACKGROUND

A tormented soul.  Adokul never knew his mother, and all he knew of his father was that he was a harsh and cruel son of a bitch.  When Adokul was 14, he stabbed his father to death while he slept.

Adokul's fate would have been much worse if it had not been for the intervention of the krel shaman. Sympathetic to the boy's situation, the shaman arranged for Adokul to be taken in by another clan in a different krel. Adokul's deed would remain unspoken, he would have a fresh start (of course, it is still possible that rumours of his action have travelled around the grel communities). But with the assistance came a debt - Adokul is required to serve any shaman when requested to do so. The debt will endure until Adokul becomes a father himself. Until then, Adokul is required to present himself to the shaman of any krel he stays at and make his debt known. Failure to do so, if discovered, will probably incur some form of punishment if discovered.

Adokul has moved a few times since then. After wandering from place to place for several years, working as a bit of a thief/mercenary for hire, he ended up in Horak-krel where the Kharad Fall decided to hire him as a worker. Now he finds himself under Ershe's father. Its an aggressive fall, tending to favour strength over subtlety. Adokul has been working for them for a bit over a year now, but is still not highly trusted by most, although the higher powers have come to depend on his skills, and the advantages those skills can bring to them.

PERSONALITY

The harsh upbringing and start to life he received have made him very cynical, selfish and very suspicious of everyone.  He has no real friends, just contacts and acquaintances who have proven to be beneficial to Adokul in some way.  He has no qualms about using or killing people for his own ends, some even suspect he gets pleasure from it.  In reality whenever he makes a kill Adokul is always reminded of his own father dieing by his hand all those years ago, and the feelings he experiences are both sweet and bitter.

Adokul has made a name for himself as the person to see if you need some "less than reputable" work done.  Just make sure you keep up your end of the bargain.


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## doghead (Nov 2, 2007)

*Voda*, let me know if there are any adjustments that you would like to make to Adokul. I'm fairly open to anything that doesn't impact on the game continuity. You can reformat the character sheet to something more of your own liking if you wish. POst it to the RG thread when ready.

On a related question, how do you stand with ghosting Adokul? Are you just hanging in there until you can get on to a new character of your own devising? Or are you happy enough  playing Adokul for now?

I saw Autumn logged in this morning. That could be a good sign. If you are lurking, I hope that things are going well for you *Autumn*.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Voda Vosa (Nov 2, 2007)

I'm happy with him, if its owner doesn't claim him back, I'll rather stay with him, the way he is. 
=)


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## doghead (Nov 2, 2007)

*Voda* If you are happy, then I am happy. We can worry about what to do when Zadam returns if Zadam returns.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Nov 5, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

*Voda*. How's it going? Haven't seen much of you lately. I noticed that you jumped into a lot of games fairly quickly. Are you suffering a little bit of burnout?

doghead
aka thotd


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## Autumn (Nov 6, 2007)

Thanks for the well-wishes. 

  Sorry I didn't poke my head in here earlier, but I wanted to make sure I was feeling relaxed and happy about it before I re-committed myself to my games. I figure that coming back out of duty and then shirking my posting would have been the worst I could have done. 

 In any case I'm back, and eager to get playing again. I'll go catch up on the IC thread now.


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## doghead (Nov 7, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

Welcome back Autumn.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Nov 13, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

Apologies for the lack of posts. Its been a bit mental here for the last few days. It will be for the rest of the week. So I'm pretty much going to have to write myself off until then.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Nov 19, 2007)

*Voda*, your character sheet is in the OOC thread here. 



			
				Voda said:
			
		

> (I have a bow right?)



 Actually no. He doesn't have a short bow as written. Take one, update the character sheet and post it in the [RG] thread here.

*DEFCON*, Mogro is obviously ticked off (which I have no problem with). I was wondering if you were also (which would worry me). I know that I have sometimes spoken through my character at times. I realised after I posted the Round 1 summary that I probably caught you on the hop over weekend. If you are, let me know.

doghead
aka thotd


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## Autumn (Nov 19, 2007)

I wondered the same. My IC instinct is to have Ershe chase after Mogro and try to reason with him, but if there is an OOC problem I don't want to make it worse.


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## DEFCON 1 (Nov 20, 2007)

No, I'm not ticked off (it is just a PbP game after all    )... but I do kind of feel sort of up in the air right now.  The fact that we've spent all this time roleplaying to this place in the story about setting up relations with the gnolls to find out why they are here and how we can help... only to have it all disappear in a *poof* by extraneous NPC's does make me go "well, what's been the point of all this to this point?"   If our efforts were successful or destroyed by our own efforts... then cool... that makes for a fun and egnaging story.  But to know that it didn't matter what we did this entire time because we were going to be outplotted by the NPCs just leaves a sour taste in my mouth is all.

And like I wrote for Mogro... there is nothing he can really do anymore.  He's not going to turn around and attack the gnolls just because the other grell showed up... but he's also not going to attack his own townfolk only because they are more skittish about the gnolls than he is.  So he's basically out of the fight.  I had him "ride off" only to just get him out of the the way once the gnolls and the interloper half-orcs came to blows.

I'd certainly be happy to change it so he remains "on the fringe" if it turns out these new gnolls arriving are actually a fourth group altogether (and thus it becomes our party, the other grell, and the gnolls we've been speaking to all against this rival gnoll gang), but if it's grell versus gnoll, then Mogro won't be choosing sides.


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## Autumn (Nov 20, 2007)

Well as far as I can work out, there is no reason why this has to mean that our efforts have come to nothing, at least unless we let it. We've been trying to make peace with the gnolls - a war-mongering part of grell have shown up to undermine that. By fending them off, we display our goodwill to the gnolls and display that even though there is disagreement among our kin, our faction has a genuine desire to make peace.

 That, at least, is how Ershe sees it. 

 And as I see it... we haven't been 'outplotted by NPCs', we've just been given a challenge. After all, Urthe is clearly a happy friendly loveable sort of gnoll, and without complications our job would be all too easy. This makes it a little tougher. All to the good.


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## Voda Vosa (Nov 21, 2007)

And to bust some bad grell asses =)


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## doghead (Nov 21, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs

I _was_ shooting for 'complex and interconnected'  :\  

With the benefit of hindsight, I should have laid down some heavier hints about Urshak's intentions, or at least his likely actions. Hindsight is a wonderful thing. So is feedback. It helps me know what works, and what doesn't. That was a hint.

As for Mogro, do what you think is right for the character. I have had characters walk away from their companions because it was the right thing for the character to do. The gnolls are not from a rival clan. But exactly how things are going to unfold, I don't know. So staying close would have some advantages. But its your call. There is still room for Mogro to make his way off without being engaged. I can sort an NPC or two for you to run if Mogro's decision results in some downtime. If you want.

*Voda* Waiting to see if Adokul decides to shoot Washi or not. 

doghead
aka thotd.


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## DEFCON 1 (Nov 21, 2007)

I certainly understand what you were trying to do with Urshak, doghead... and I knew that something was going to come out of it at some point.  I had no problem with that whatsoever, and fully expected to deal with that problem when it came up.  So that plotline is all good.  I just thought we'd get to at least _start_ our plotline before it got destroyed.

I guess my real frustration was/is with the fact that the opposing grell showed up _exactly_ when we made first contact with the gnolls, thereby making any/all of our intentions suspect or moot.  That's what I meant by being "outplotted" by the NPCs.  We show up with friendly intentions, have barely a chance to begin talking, then all of a sudden opposing grell show up and attack, thereby making our group look like liars.  I know if I was the gnolls, I wouldn't ever believe that our small party of grell ever had honest intentions and would instead think this was one giant set-up.  And now that things are devolving into one giant grell vs gnoll fight, it seems that it is backing those thoughts up.  Mogro now has to choose between defending a group of gnolls he's barely spoken to (and who, quite honestly, still might be the vicious killers everyone else believes gnolls to be, but he's not had a chance to discover for himself)... or joining his townsfolk brethren in attacking these gnolls and going against every reason he came out here in the first place.

Had we had a couple hours of dealing with the gnolls, establishing a rapport, coming to some understandings about each other (especially about how many of our townsfolk are not as willing to talk as we were)... and _then_ the other grell showed up to attack, then that would've been cool.  The gnolls would know we weren't in on it, and thus Mogro would have been able to make a knowledgeable decision on who to defend/attack.  But right now as I said... it's all up in the air.  I'm not willing to have Mogro attack the gnolls because it goes against everything he came out here for... but I'm also not willing to attack the other grell because for all we know they are in the right, plus the fact it would basically ostracize us all from the krel when the other townsfolk found out we killed our own people to defend a bunch of gnolls we barely spoke to.  It's a no-win situation... which is why Mogro's staying out of it.

Right now... the only thing Mogro wants to do is to go back to town and tell everyone there "hey, just thought you might want to know... those of us you sent out to speak with the gnolls did in fact meet them and spoke to them for about five minutes... they seemed okay for the moment and said they wanted to trade... but then a bunch of other townsfolk showed up and attacked and pretty much destroyed any chance of negotiation from happening, so it seems we're now at war with a gnoll band for no good reason.  We'll see how many our our brethren come back, and you town elders can decide what to do next."


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## covaithe (Nov 21, 2007)

Sounds like a valid IC response to me.  Just don't be surprised when the other party members are upset with you IC.    Assuming we survive, that is...


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## Voda Vosa (Nov 21, 2007)

Of course Adokul attacks. I think I posted that when I post his actions.


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## doghead (Nov 23, 2007)

Thanks for being up front *DEFCON*. Its horrible knowing that a player isn't having fun in the game. But its worse not knowing that a player isn't having fun. At least if I know, I can try and do something about it.

At this point, in this situation, there is not much I can do to change the basic situation. But I will keep in mind your comments as things play out.

*Voda*. I just wanted to make sure. I also missed your last post here which made it fairly clear. My mistake.

OK. So Round 2 is done.

doghead
aka thotd


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## covaithe (Dec 14, 2007)

Ok, I'm confused.  A few rounds ago, she seemed to be saying that the only hope for peace was to let Ji'or have his way.  Now she says if he wins, there's no peace?  Then, she said she can't be seen to challenge him, now she's making him look like a fool with the mist and the chanting?  What's going on?


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## doghead (Dec 16, 2007)

ooc - Underdogs



			
				covaithe said:
			
		

> What is going on?




Good question. Everything you said above is correct, so you are not missing anything. Except perhaps an explanation. But that the characters will have to get from Urthe.


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## doghead (Jan 1, 2008)

ooc - Underdogs

Welcome back and Happy New Year everyone.

First off, apologies for the current encounter. It has grown into something of a monster of my own making. Hopefully we can clear the decks of it soon and get the PC's back on centre stage where they should be.

doghead
aka thotd


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## doghead (Jan 13, 2008)

I am going to pull the plug on Underdogs and Junk Yard Dogs. For various reasons my head is not in the right place to run a game and I don't seem to be able to get my thoughts straight. It has got to the point where I am avoiding the computer, which isn't fair on anyone.

doghead
aka thotd


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