# Wargames for casual newcomers?



## FriarRosing (Jan 15, 2009)

My friends and I have recently gotten pretty into board games. So far we've got Starcraft the Board Game, Fire & Axe and Risk: Godstorm. And pretty soon we should also have Carcassonne, Arkham Horror, and Last Night on Earth. 

In addition to these, I'd kind of like to try a wargame of some sort. The thing is, we're not the kind of hardcore dudes who would get really into something, so I think a simpler game would be better. I'd say that I'd be more interested in the game than the war. I've been looking at Memoir '44 as a place to start, since it seems to be simple and accessible enough for us, but can anyone recommend a better game?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 15, 2009)

One of the great _simple_ wargames of all time is Ogre/G.E.V.  Its been around forever, the rules are simple and straightforward.

There is also a miniatures game version of it.


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## Arkhandus (Jan 15, 2009)

Mage Knight?

*dodges rotten fruits*

AFAIK it's defunct, but it should be fairly cheap to buy MK units or starter/booster boxes at game stores, Amazon.com, E-Bay, or something.  They're just cheap pre-painted plastic miniatures, with a few stats on their bases.  The base can be turned as the unit gets damaged or healed, to change its stats until it reaches the point where its stats are all skulls (dead).

I've got a ton of 'em, but I'm still hoping to find the chance to play the game again.  Don't have any gamer buddies in the area, though (since moving several years ago).  When you buy a starter box of Mage Knight (or any of the preconstructed army boxes), it comes with a small rulebook and an ability card.  The ability card describes the handful of abilities that units in MK have, based on the color of the figure's stat box.

The game uses one or two six-sided dice and a small measuring tape or similar to measure distances.  It's pretty simple to learn the game.


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## jdrakeh (Jan 15, 2009)

You may want to look at AT-43 (mecha in an alternate future) — it's a are pre-painted minis games, still in production, has 'ready to play' starter sets available, and doesn't have a buy-in cost of several hundred dollars (unlike, say WH40k, as I'm learning).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 15, 2009)

I have some of the AT-43 minis- they're nice, and suitable for most sci-fi/supers games, but I haven't played the actual game.  I've heard that its quite good, though.


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## Victim (Jan 15, 2009)

Are you looking for a board game sort of wargame, or a tabletop miniatures wargame?

I've heard that Memoir is one of the more simplistic versions of that game system; Battlelore or Command and Colors Ancients sound like they'd have more depth while still being accessible.  But I haven't played any of those games.  And CC:A uses blocks with stickers instead of miniature units, which might be a visual turnoff.

Board Game Geek might be a good place to look for ideas - just in case you're not looking there already.

I was thinking about getting a wargame recently (I've pretty much settled on Tigris and Euphrates instead) and CC:A (mentioned above), Combat Commander, and Conflict of Heroes.  They're all highly rated games and seemed to gain lots of praise for being accessible.  I haven't played any of them, though.


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## Thanee (Jan 15, 2009)

jdrakeh said:


> You may want to look at AT-43 (mecha in an alternate future) — it's a are pre-painted minis games, still in production, has 'ready to play' starter sets available, and doesn't have a buy-in cost of several hundred dollars (unlike, say WH40k, as I'm learning).




http://www.at-43.com/

Yep, it's definitely a nice game. Quick to learn, quick to play, with a nice amount of variety and tactics involved (not just dice rolling and luck, though that also plays a role, of course).

I'm not sure what you are looking at, when you say "wargame". AT-43 is a full-fledged tabletop game, minus the assembly/painting-part (unless you want to) that typically comes with those, of similar complexity as Warhammer 40,000.

Download the game rules for free from the official site to get an idea!

The starter box (Operation Damocles) is good value and good to get an idea about the game, but definitely not enough to play, you need a lot more for that (I would guess about $200 per player plus another $100 total for some additional terrain).

So while it might not be as expensive as WH40K, it certainly isn't a cheap game.

Bye
Thanee


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## Korgoth (Jan 15, 2009)

I think Memoir '44 is a good choice from the standpoint that it is light, fun and fast-paced. It's fairly abstract, though, so you may not be able to visualize what's happening. You're moving around whole battalions at a time.

If you want to zoom in and get your Band of Brothers on, I highly recommend Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear. It's the first of a new series of stand alone squad-level games. The action is quite fast and the rules are very elegant. It is not too much harder than Memoir '44 (though it is a little harder) and it plays about as fast. I've played it with a friend who is a veteran ASL player and he says it feels like "Squad Leader Lite".

Check it out here:
Conflict of Heroes - CoH Home Page

Be sure to look navigate to the components and examples of play to get a feel for it. The components are quite lavish for a war game.


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## FriarRosing (Jan 15, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the responses.

We're more interested in a board game kind of deal, I think. I mainly don't want us to have to buy a lot of crap, I'd rather just buy a box and maybe some expansions and then be able to roll with it. I think my hierarchy of needs in wargames would probably be simple fun first, followed by simulationism. 

I'm thinking about Combat Commander Pacific, because it looks pretty cool. And, if not that maybe Commands and Colors: Ancients. Both of those sound better than my original idea of memoir '44. Really, I'm not interested that much with miniature armymen, tanks an so forth; I don't want to feel like I'm playing with toys. 

I'm also kind of looking at the Federation Commander games because... well, because I'm a huge nerd. Does anyone know if they're that great? I'm more interested in having an excellent and fun game than in setting and theme.


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## MerricB (Jan 16, 2009)

Memoir '44 is exceptional; don't let the minis fool you. The game gets deeper the more you play it (especially with an expansion like the Eastern Front).

C&C:A is also a great game, though I don't like it as much as M44; it's also not quite so "casual".

Combat Commander: Europe and Conflict of Heroes are the next step up after that. Both are really fun games. (I haven't played CC yet; you might want to start with CC:E first).

Cheers!


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## Korgoth (Jan 16, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses.
> 
> We're more interested in a board game kind of deal, I think. I mainly don't want us to have to buy a lot of crap, I'd rather just buy a box and maybe some expansions and then be able to roll with it. I think my hierarchy of needs in wargames would probably be simple fun first, followed by simulationism.
> 
> ...




Commands and Colors: Ancients is excellent if you want a card driven game like Memoir '44 but want more depth and tactical complexity. It's my favorite of the Borg card driven wargames. Also, war elephants.

Federation Commander is superb. It's SFB lite, which is a good thing. It plays fast, has a good deal of tactical depth, and doesn't require you to memorize a bunch of fiddly rules. I suggest starting with "Klingon Border". It gives you a nice mix of ships, including some classic ones, and in general serves as an excellent introduction to the worlds of FedCom / SFU. And the Klingons are real Klingons: dour Mongolian Communist Klingons. Those are the best kind.


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## jdrakeh (Jan 16, 2009)

Thanee said:


> So while it might not be as expensive as WH40K, it certainly isn't a cheap game.




Well, it's all relative. I'm building a 2000 pt Ultramarine army for 40k, which looks like it's going to cost me just about $500 after it is completed (this includes the cost for the rulebook, dice, etc — but not for the troop carrier that I ordered to store the minis).


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## Thanee (Jan 16, 2009)

jdrakeh said:


> Well, it's all relative.




Of course. 

Bye
Thanee


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## bento (Jan 16, 2009)

C&C:A, Battlelore, and Memoir '44 use the same basic system, so depending on your tastes, these are a great place to start.  You said you don't want to go down the slippery slope of expansions, and all three of these games have them.  The basic box can be enough, but if you're like me and have an itch to play a slightly different campaign, you'll be buying additional boxes.

I'd recommend checking out GMTGames.com, the manufacturer of C&C:A which publishes board wargames on just about every period and campaign.  Some are rather complex, while others are less so.


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## Ahzad (Jan 16, 2009)

There's been some good suggestions already.

I can also recommend Federation Commander as an easy to learn space combat game.  I also like the Babylon 5 A Call to Arms box set, no minis just a bunch of cardboard counters.

For WWII I like Tide of Iron and it fits as your request for everything in a box that only one person needs to buy and you can play it with 2-4 players for I think it cost me $80. There's is an expansion for it called Days of the Fox dealing w/ Rommel and North Africa.

I've heard nothing but good things about Memoir as well but have resisted the urge to pick it up so far.


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## Imperialus (Jan 16, 2009)

It really depends on what you mean by complexity...

My personal favorite for an 'intro' wargame is L2 Design Group's The Russian Campaign.  It's a classic, operational level wargame originally published by Avalon Hill back in the 60's or 70's but L2's version is still in print.

No step loss, supply and re-enforcement rules are very simple, not very many special units, Combat is a breeze as long as you can calculate odds, (CF 18 vs. CF 9 = 2:1) and it does a good job of simulating the campaign without getting bogged down in a lot of detail.

As an old game it also uses a lot of the more traditional mechanics that make their way into more modern games.

However, a couple nits to pick.

The OB (Order of Battle) for both sides may as well be based on fiction.  
The Guards units make an appearance, but there is no mention of the assault armies, no NKVD divisions ect.
The Supply rules are perhaps too simple
There are a lot of double counters...  You can use NATO symbols, or pretty pictures of tanks, and of course if you're playing as the Axis there is the option of having censored counters that do away with those nasty SS symbols ...  Seems a little redundant IMO.

Also keep in mind that although the rules are simple, it is still a hardcore wargame, expect to spend 40+ hours playing.  The last playthrough I did we played for about 4 hours 3 Sunday's a month and it still took us almost 8 months to finish.  A lot of this was due to the fact that we had to go through the setup/breakdown process every week which took about an hour total, but each turn still took 45 minutes to an hour and a half each.

However, all that aside The Russian Campaign has stood the test of time remarkably well, and if you can look past the ahistorical stuff it's a good introduction to more complex games.

Bento's suggestion is good too, GMT games produces some very consistently good games incorporating some very innovative mechanics for wargames.  They're probably my favorite publisher overall though their complexity tends to range from the medium to high end.  I'm very intrigued by Blood and Sand as a possibility for a more casual 'pickup' wargame.  It looks like it might your needs fairly well too, though keep in mind it isn't out yet so I can't exactly give it a real endorsement.

*edit* Another note on GMT games.  If you want to give a tactical scale (commanding a single battle) a try, you can't possibly go wrong with their Musket and Pike series based on the 17th ca. Kicks off with This Accursed Civil War and there are 3 others in the series so far.  Not a beginners wargame though (though the tactical ones rarely are) so might want to hold off on it for a while.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 17, 2009)

As I recall, _Starfire _was pretty easy to learn and play, and was pretty nifty to boot.


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## FriarRosing (Jan 17, 2009)

Thanks everyone for the responses. I decided to get Memoir '44, and just picked it up yesterday from a local game shop. They ha Tide of Iron, but I didn't know anything about it, and in hindsight wish a little bit that I had gotten that instead. But whatever is cool.

The rules seem pretty cool, and I like the little miniatures. I'm pretty pumped to play. Also while we were there my friend got Arkham Horror, so I think this weekend will be bad ass.


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## FriarRosing (Jan 18, 2009)

Well, last night we played a couple games of M44 and had a blast. If we continue to like it as much as we do, I may consider buying some of the expansions. Reading about the Campaign Book has me a little interested. I like the idea of a ton of new scenarios that actually influence each other. I'd have to get 2, and possible even 3 of the expansions to enjoy the entirety of that book, though, so I don't know about.


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## Punnuendo (Jan 18, 2009)

Memoi is one of my favorite games. A real blast.


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## MerricB (Jan 19, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> Thanks everyone for the responses. I decided to get Memoir '44, and just picked it up yesterday from a local game shop. They ha Tide of Iron, but I didn't know anything about it, and in hindsight wish a little bit that I had gotten that instead. But whatever is cool.
> 
> The rules seem pretty cool, and I like the little miniatures. I'm pretty pumped to play. Also while we were there my friend got Arkham Horror, so I think this weekend will be bad ass.




I'm glad you're enjoying M44! You did actually make the right decision in not buying Tide of Iron; compared to the other wargames I've played, it's not in the same league.

I've played through all the scenarios in the basic M44, and the Eastern Front - that's a lot of fun. We're going through the Pacific Theatre at present...

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Jan 20, 2009)

Well, I've decided Memoir is one of my favorite games so far, and I ordered the Eastern Front expansion. I was reading about the Pacific Theatre one, and it sounds cool. I was wondering if any of the other ones are "must haves." 

Also, I'm still interested in deeper, more simulationist-y wargames, if anyone has any other recommendations for those.

Thanks!

EDIT:

Are there any good World War I games? I'm somewhat more interested in that time period than any other one, but I'm not sure how well that particular war would translate into a game.


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## AJCarrington (Jan 20, 2009)

As mentioned previously, Conflict of Heroes is a pretty slick game.  Note that as you delve into more detailed and simulationist-style games, they become less "casual"...

Don't know of any WWI games, but ofr WWII, some thing you might want to check out include ASL (Advanced Squad Leader), Band of Brothers (Lock 'n Load), Panzer Grenadier and ATS (Advanced Tobruk System).  All of these games are tactical (squad or company level scale); my preference more than anything else.  Also, note that ASL is NOT in entry-level game, but can offer you thousands of pages of rules, details and minutae...great fun for those who've made the leap, but a pretty steep learning curve for anyone new to the system.

AJC


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## MerricB (Jan 20, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> Well, I've decided Memoir is one of my favorite games so far, and I ordered the Eastern Front expansion. I was reading about the Pacific Theatre one, and it sounds cool. I was wondering if any of the other ones are "must haves."




Almost all of them. Seriously. Well, Terrain Pack isn't that great, but you need it for things like the Air Pack, which is great.

The ones I'd definitely get:
Eastern Front
Pacific Theatre
Mediterranean Theatre
Terrain Pack
Air Pack
Campaign book



> Also, I'm still interested in deeper, more simulationist-y wargames, if anyone has any other recommendations for those.




ASL Starter Kit #1. 
Combat Commander: Europe

If you want to move out of squad-level games, there are some good ones out there.



> Are there any good World War I games? I'm somewhat more interested in that time period than any other one, but I'm not sure how well that particular war would translate into a game.




Paths of Glory is one of the best, but it's out of print (with any luck, it'll be reprinted soon - it's on GMT's P500 list). It's cousin, Pursuit of Glory has just been released - it deals with the Great War in the near east. Both are strategic level games - mainly because there wasn't really much great man-vs-man action in WW1.

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Jan 21, 2009)

Excellent. Thanks so much for the recommendations. I think I have quite a few things to save up my money for now (in addition to Gen Con). I'll definitely try to get all the M44 expansions, and I may get either ASL or one of the Combat Commander games, I'm not sure yet. I may find one WWII game and its expansions may be all I need for that war. 

Paths of Glory looks like something I would definitely like, though it evidently runs really long? Here's to hoping they reprint it.


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## Agamon (Jan 29, 2009)

Haven't played M44, but BattleLore is pretty good.  Not a fan of the new Axis & Alies game, it's not whether the Allies win, it's how quickly they do.  Tried A&A minis recently, that was cool.

The one game I've tried and want to pick is called Wizard Kings from Columbia Games.  Army building, fog of war, multiple army types and soldier types within each army and limitless scenario possibilites make this a great game.  Plus it's relatively rules light, a good entry wargame.  And it can be played with 2 to 9 players (though I suspect a 9-player game would be very long).


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## FriarRosing (Jan 30, 2009)

I'm pretty much in love with Memoir '44, and I'm roommate recently ordered Commands and Colors: Ancients, so I couldn't be happier.

I'm trying to find a good deal on Paths of Glory, but it's somewhat difficult. We may go with Twilight Struggle, which, while not a wargame, sounds like it plays similarly and could be cool.


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## MerricB (Jan 30, 2009)

We played M44 twice last night - the first time, I won in 11 minutes after a very nice Air Raid knocked out Randy's artillery - we were playing my Americans vs. his Japanese from the Pacific Theatre set. So, win to me, 5-2.

Then we reversed it, and I won the second game 5-4!  I'm happy.

Twilight Struggle is my #1 game. It's absolutely brilliant, and you should get it. Paths of Glory is on the P500 list for reprinting at GMT Games; it needs 500 preregistered buyers to be reprinted. (I'm on the list, as I just missed it myself, though Randy has it).

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Jan 30, 2009)

We played through all of the scenarios that came with the base game, and it was a blast. We tallied up the medals at the end, and I, as the Allies, lost by two. We're taking a break for a couple days, since we played it a ton over the past week. Soon we'll start on the Eastern Front, which I'm pretty excited for, and after that I'll have to get some other expansions. I still don't totally know what to get next.

Actually, I don't know how I feel about the expansions. Of course, I haven't played any yet, but looking over the contents of the Eastern Front one, I find it hard to justify the price it costs. I mean, we get a handful of new rules, a few new tiles (most of which don't even do anything new) and some new miniatures. Also there are the seven scenarios, which doesn't seem like that many. Also the cardboard that makes the box is not as strong. I like the new rules, I just wish there were more scenarios. I want more tiles that do different things, I think.

Not meaning to speak ill of the game, though. It's a blast. I just want more scenarios and rules and fewer new terrain tiles that do essentially the same things as the old terrain tiles. My hope is that perhaps the other expansions offer a little more. The Air Pack is the only one that sounds like it really offers something of significance.


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## MerricB (Feb 3, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> We played through all of the scenarios that came with the base game, and it was a blast. We tallied up the medals at the end, and I, as the Allies, lost by two. We're taking a break for a couple days, since we played it a ton over the past week. Soon we'll start on the Eastern Front, which I'm pretty excited for, and after that I'll have to get some other expansions. I still don't totally know what to get next.
> 
> Actually, I don't know how I feel about the expansions. Of course, I haven't played any yet, but looking over the contents of the Eastern Front one, I find it hard to justify the price it costs. I mean, we get a handful of new rules, a few new tiles (most of which don't even do anything new) and some new miniatures. Also there are the seven scenarios, which doesn't seem like that many. Also the cardboard that makes the box is not as strong. I like the new rules, I just wish there were more scenarios. I want more tiles that do different things, I think.
> 
> Not meaning to speak ill of the game, though. It's a blast. I just want more scenarios and rules and fewer new terrain tiles that do essentially the same things as the old terrain tiles. My hope is that perhaps the other expansions offer a little more. The Air Pack is the only one that sounds like it really offers something of significance.




Have you tried the online scenarios?

They're coming out with a campaign/scenario book as well. 

When you get the Air Pack, you'll see it uses a bunch of stuff from the earlier expansions. Basically it updates all of the earlier scenarios with the new air rules, using lots of terrain pieces and minis from those sets. At that point, you realise why the expansions are good. 

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Feb 3, 2009)

MerricB said:


> Have you tried the online scenarios?
> 
> They're coming out with a campaign/scenario book as well.
> 
> ...





I've looked at some of the online scenarios, and they seem pretty cool. When we're done with the Eastern Front stuff we'll probably play through all the online ones we can. I'm pretty excited about the campaign book, I'm hoping it'll be really cool. Really, I don't mind the expansions. I'm sure I'll buy most of them, but I know that I'll be grumbling under my breath as I carry them to the cash register--for the terrain pack at least.


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## MerricB (Feb 3, 2009)

The terrain pack is the one you grumble about... until you find scenarios later on that use it. There's a really fun one in the Eastern Front pack that has a train...

Cheers!


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## MerricB (Feb 6, 2009)

I was playing Conflict of Heroes and ASL Starter Kit #1 last night.

They were both lots of fun. CoH is more approachable for the newcomer, but ASL is a pretty amazing game.







This is Conflict of Heroes in play. My session report is here: FF3: General Disaster | Conflict of Heroes: Awakening the Bear! - Russia 1941-1942 | BoardGameGeek






And this is Advanced Squad Leader, Starter Kit #1. Matching session report: S5: Slaughter of the Germans (2 players) | Advanced Squad Leader (ASL) Starter Kit #1 | BoardGameGeek

If I were going from no Wargaming to heavy Wargaming, I'd probably take the path:

Memoir '44 -> Conflict of Heroes -> Combat Commander: Europe -> ASL SK#1. 

That ignores a lot of the Card-Driven Games though, like Pursuit of Glory (which I'm going to play one of these days!)


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## lin_fusan (Feb 6, 2009)

I'm late to the game for this thread, but I wanted to recommend _Nexus Ops_, a Wizards of the Coast/Avalon Hill small-squad self-enclosed wargame. It's for two to four players, but works excellent with three and okay with four.

It has a sci-fi theme. It has four colors of translucent plastic alien pieces. The rules are relatively straightforward. 

The only problem is that it's out of print, and a copy might be hard to find.


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## Torillan (Feb 6, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> Are there any good World War I games? I'm somewhat more interested in that time period than any other one, but I'm not sure how well that particular war would translate into a game.




Try Wings of War, particularly with the miniatures.  Even without them, its scads of fun.  I run an after-school game at my 5th graders school, and all the kids love it.

While it deals with aerial combat, there are rules for ground units (AA, airstrips, etc.) that make the game more fun.



			
				MerricB said:
			
		

> You did actually make the right decision in not buying Tide of Iron; compared to the other wargames I've played, it's not in the same league.




You are correct, MM'44 is way out of ToI's league: ToI is more intelligent.  MM'44 is good, but ToI is so much better.  Of course, YMMV.


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## MerricB (Feb 7, 2009)

Torillan said:


> You are correct, MM'44 is way out of ToI's league: ToI is more intelligent.  MM'44 is good, but ToI is so much better.  Of course, YMMV.




The thing is, M44 doesn't compete with ToI; M44 is a very "light" wargame.

ToI seems to be a more serious wargame, but when stacked up against Conflict of Heroes and Combat Commander: Europe it just doesn't compare IMO. 

I don't think it's a _bad_ game, but I think its competition is much better.

Cheers!


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## EdPovi (Feb 11, 2009)

I agree with Torillan on Tide of Iron.  I have M44, ToI, CC:E and CoH now, and while I haven't played them all extensively, it seems to me that each has it's own niche.   

M44 leads pretty well to CC:E as both depend heavily on proper use and management of the cards you draw, M44 is more casual while CC:E is more detailed.   

ToI and CoH are more governed by position and the action - reaction of unit activations.  ToI is a bit more visual, abstract, and casual, while CoH is a bit more detailed, traditional, and historical.

They all require good tactics and strategy to do well, but each has it's own feel to the game play.  I just started to get into war games a bit and the new games seem very good.  I'm not sure what games to go to next, maybe ASL for more detailed squad based game, or one of the block games for a more operational level game.


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## FriarRosing (Feb 11, 2009)

Thanks again for the responses and info. Right now I'm working on acquiring some good eurogames, but once my collection feels sufficient in that department I'll probably look back into wargames. The ASL starter kits and Conflict of Heroes interest me the most, I think. Combat Commander sounds interesting, but for some reason a little less so than the others.

I'm really not interested in Tide of Iron at all. I'm content with Memoir '44 in terms of casual wargames, and now I'd rather have something a lot more in depth. Increased depth, as well as simulation, are the two things I'd like to have in another game. Also, larger battles would be nice. 

With M44, we have one more scenario left on the Eastern Front, after which we'll have to look for new places to battle. I think it'll be a good time to check out some of the free online scenarios!

EDIT:
Also as an aside, does anyone know anything about Manoeuvre? I still like the idea of simple, abstract wargames, and I was wondering if it was any good.


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## kobold (Feb 15, 2009)

I'll second Wings of War as being a great game, with minis its even better. excelent of the casual gamer - yet a real wargame
WWII minis I have ot go with Disposable Hero's for the same reasons.
Both have low buy in.
If you already have a lot of minis for D&D laying around you can't go wrong with Song of Blades.
All these games are cheap compared to a lot of the other wargames out there, simple enogh to teach casual / newcomers or even children yet are complex enough tactics wise to keep long time wargamers happy.


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## MerricB (Feb 16, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> EDIT:
> Also as an aside, does anyone know anything about Manoeuvre? I still like the idea of simple, abstract wargames, and I was wondering if it was any good.




It's got a lot of good press, but I've not seen it myself.

Cheers!


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## FriarRosing (Feb 16, 2009)

kobold said:


> I'll second Wings of War as being a great game, with minis its even better. excelent of the casual gamer - yet a real wargame
> WWII minis I have ot go with Disposable Hero's for the same reasons.
> Both have low buy in.
> If you already have a lot of minis for D&D laying around you can't go wrong with Song of Blades.
> All these games are cheap compared to a lot of the other wargames out there, simple enogh to teach casual / newcomers or even children yet are complex enough tactics wise to keep long time wargamers happy.




I just got Wings of War today as an impulse buy from one of our local game stores. We've only played it twice so far, but it's been a lot of fun. I'm seriously considering getting both the Burning Drachens and Watch Your Back! expansions/add-ons/whatever they are.


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## FriarRosing (Apr 18, 2009)

So, I was thinking today about picking up Battlelore as my next wargamey purchase. But then I noticed one of my local game stores has Hammer of the Scots, and I have some store credit there. So I was wondering, is that a game worth picking up? It's rated pretty well on BGG, but the reviews all seemed to have some pretty strong criticisms.


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## MerricB (Apr 19, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> So, I was thinking today about picking up Battlelore as my next wargamey purchase. But then I noticed one of my local game stores has Hammer of the Scots, and I have some store credit there. So I was wondering, is that a game worth picking up? It's rated pretty well on BGG, but the reviews all seemed to have some pretty strong criticisms.




I think it's a fun game, based on the one time I've played it. (I've also played Warriors of God a couple of time, which is similar in style).

Cheers!


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## Nedz (May 15, 2009)

I'd like to recommend Hordes of the Things and De Belle Antiquaris.
There both classic table top rules designed to be used with minatures.
You can just cut out some cardboard bases though (which is fairly cheap) and the rules only cost £3.
The rules are very simple and quick. HoTTs is a fantasy type thing and DBA is ancients (thats anything pre-gunpowder).
Produced by WRG


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