# Your Best and Worst Sci-Fi TV Shows!



## Gomez (Apr 19, 2005)

What are in your opinion the five best and five worst Sci-Fi TV shows of all time. Just live action television please no animation. 


Here are mine.

*BEST!*

1. *Babylon 5* - The complete package. Great story, acting, and good effects! 
2. *Dr. Who* - While it might not have the best effects or hard sci-fi stories. It is just a plain joy to watch! 
3. *Outer Limits* - It thrilled me as a kid to hear the opening for this show. Still a joy to watch.
4. *Firefly* - A Wonderful series with grit, style, and heart! Too bad it's life was cut short. 
5. *U.F.O.* - A Gerry Anderson live action show set in the future of 1980! I love the mod futuristic look of the show. Good acting and stories. Fun Anderson vehicles too! 

Honorable mentions. *Battlestar Galactica* (2004), *Star Trek* (Original)


*WORST!*

1.* Manimal* - Nuff Said! 
2. *Battlestar Galactica* (1980) Started out ok but into the second season it just got worse and worst. Same old plot line again and again. 
3. *Space: 1999* - As a kid I enjoyed the show for it's Anderson vehicles. But looking back the premise and stories were terrible. 
4. *Lost in Space* - Watched it as a kid because it was the only show on during the afternoon. Looking back it is just too campy for my adult tastes. 
5. *Cleopatra 2525*- yeck!


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## Angel Tarragon (Apr 19, 2005)

*BEST!*
1 *Stargate SG1* - A team of friends that explores the universes planets
2 *Sliders* - Can't get enough Jerry O'Connel - plus I love the idea of paralell dimensions
3 *The New Outer Limits* - Can't get enough SciFi goodness
4 *Forever Knight* - A Vampire cop that tries to regain his humanity
5 *Tremors: The Series** - Gotta love this series of graboid goodness 


*WORST!*
1 *The New Battlestar Galactica* - the original is better (Starbuck as a woman?!)
2 *Tracker* - Good premise, but poorly done
3 *Roswell* - Teenage aliens looking to find their ride home? Meh.
4 *Beastmaster* - Good show, just on the wrong network
5 *Andromeda* - Too much for my taste.


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## jonesy (Apr 19, 2005)

*Best*:
1. *Babylon 5*. The only tv show I ever recorded from start to finish. Before getting it on DVD.
2. *Firefly*. Which I would have recorded from start to finish, only I missed doing so for the first episode.
3. *Space: Above and Beyond*. Damn I miss that show.
4. *Outer Limits*. Both the old and the new.
5. *Stargate SG-1*. It works. Sometimes repeats what it has already done, but even then it works. And it's cool.

Honorable mention goes to the show where this ship sets out to colonize another planet and ends up crashing on it. The name escapes me.

*Worst*:
5. *Earth: Final Conflict*. Goofy and lame.
4. *Star Trek: Voyager*. I set out to like it, and ended up hating it already after the first two episodes.
3. *Lost in Space*. Didn't leave any kind of impression on me.
2. *Battlestar Galactica*. Haven't seen the new version.
1. *Roswell.* Yuck. Just yuck.


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## Rackhir (Apr 19, 2005)

Best 

1- B5 : Precious moments equaled in no other stories
2- StarTrek : It's the classic.
3- Macross : Epic, great story and the best Mecha action ever!
4- New Outer Limits : Very, very dark and depressing at times, but always well told and thought provoking. Their lack of qualms about having endings that were NOT happy really set it apart. Some very grim tales here.
5- UFO (the far off Future of 1980!), Dr Who (Tom Baker), Blakes 7, Stargate SG-1, First season of Earth Final Conflict (such an interesting setup, characters and motivations)...


Worst - There have been so many, it's hard to choose. Especially since so many lasted so few episodes.

1-Voyager : Never much liked any of the new trek series. This was the worst offender by far. Not even reaching the levels of bad enough to despise, it was just DUMB! No virtues at ALL. 
2- STNG : Heresy perhaps to those of you who grew up on it, but to me their compulsion to toss logic, reason and plot out the window for the sake of the relentlessly ham handed moral points they wanted to club you over the head with, will always ruin the show for me. BAD,BAD,BAD.
3- BG: 1980 - This was just dumb. 
4- GI Joe : What can you say about a series where despite oodles of heavy weapons and automatic fire, nobody ever gets hurt or killed. Dumb characters, villians and stupid vehicle (read toy) designs drag it waaaaay down.
5- I just can't narrow this down to just one. Automan, Lost World, Beastmaster, Jerry Springer (clearly those people are from a parallel universe), TekWar, The Phoenix, Krull, any post StarTrek (OS) Roddenbery projects except the first season? of Earth Final Conflict which deserves an honorable mention as almost a best, especially that one he tried to retread about 5 times where the astronaut(s) come back to the post-apocalypse world. AND V: The series or the mini-series.


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## Dagger75 (Apr 19, 2005)

Best

 1- Firefly   Nuff Said
 2- B5 
 3- Space Above and Beyond
 4- Stargate SG-1
 5- The New Outer Limits

Worst
 1- Star Trek Voyager
 2- Space Rangers --Anybody remeber this one
 3- Battlestar Galactica -- I never got into the old series as a kid
 4- Andromida --In the begining I liked it.  I missed an episode and NOTHING makes sense
 5- Automan --Saw reruns on Sci Fi, ugh

Honorable mentions for good Sci Fi: Knight Rider, DS9, Highlander, Logans Run, Stargate Atlantis


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## Teflon Billy (Apr 19, 2005)

*BEST*
 *Babylon 5*. Wonderful writing, awesome characters, great effects. This was what Sci-fi TV should've always been. DS9 thought so, and changed their format to match when they saw how it was done.


*Firefly*. Fantastic. Would've been the best Sci-Fi series ever if it had caught on, but was up against some pretty signifigant non-content-related obstacles (jumping Time Slot, episode shown out of Stroy Arc order, etc.)


*Space: Above and Beyond*. Goofy, fun Top-Gun in space.


 New *Battlestar Galactica*. Just plain awesome. Everyhtihng about it is good so far...even the parts I thought would stink (Girl Starbuck, New Cyclons etc.)


*Farscape*. Loved every minute of the series and the mini-series that followed.



*WORST*
*Earth: Final Conflict*. Watched a few episodes. Didn't like it. Didn't continue watching.


*Star Trek: Voyager*. Nothing about this shopw gripped me, including the patented "Add a HAwt GrrrL" attempt to woo an audience.


*Lost in Space*. Didn't even like it as a kid.


*Andromeda*. It's first season was awesome, but once they did away with the great Story Arc in favor of somehting so simple even Kevin Sorbo could understand it ("Do-Gooders in Space") it lost whatever currency it had earned. Also they did away with Tyr and Rev Bem,and they were probably the best characters.


*Roswell.* Just plain sucked.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Apr 19, 2005)

*Best:*
1. The X-Files - This will always be sci-fi to me, and its definitely the best. I even love most of the later seasons.
2. 2004 Battlestar Galactica - Just can't get enough of this.
3. Firefly - More of a tie with BSG that behind it...
4. Stargate SG-1 - No explanation here. Just love it.
5. Star Trek DS9 - I've recently had the chance to finally catch the whole series on reruns from Spike TV, and I just love it. Amazing change from other Trek shows(which is generally enjoy anyway)

*Worst:*
1. Andromida - The ultimate in Ugh...
2. Star Trek Voyager - Enjoyed the first season...then more ugh.
3. Lost in Space - I'm too young to have seen it when it first aired, but I've seen it from a DVD collection and it was just painful to watch.
4. Roswell - Just never caught onto it and still couldn't when Sci-Fi channel would show the reruns.
5. BSG: 1980 - Only in 5th because it doesn't exist. Not that the original was all that great, but it was cheesy fun.


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## Klaus (Apr 19, 2005)

Man, some of the shows I liked the most have been nominated as worst! I feel terrible! 

I'll name one series that really scared me as a kid: V. The scene with the Visitor lady swallowing the rat really spooked me when I was 8!


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## WayneLigon (Apr 19, 2005)

*Best*
1. Babylon 5
2. Firefly
3. Buffy or Angel or Lost. Uncertain.
4. Star Trek TOS
5. The Twilight Zone

*Worst*
1. Logan's Run
2. Sliders. What a great idea. What a total waste of bad scripts.
3. Buck Rodges. BeedeeBeedeeBeedee. Need I say more?
4. Nightman. My god, the horror, the horror.
5. Any other Star Trek. I somewhat liked the first season of TNG, and not much after that. I never saw more than one or two DS9 episodes, so I don't have an opinion on it.

There may be worse or better ones; I've never seen many of the first-run syndication shows, or at least not enough of them to form a solid opinion. 

Mutant X and Crow looked good the few times I saw them. Same with SG1 and Farscape. Quantum Leap... eh. 

Night Gallery. God, what a come-down for Serling, but a handful of good shows. Max Headroom I really liked. 

The Flash, probably one of the best superhero TV shows we've ever had. A little better scripting, a little more cash and this might still be around today. 

Liked Special Unit 2 and G vs E a great deal. 

Lost in Space. Started out with such an interesting premise and a few good shows then just dived straight into the depths of camp and never resurfaced. Man in carrot suit. 'nuff said.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Apr 19, 2005)

Best:

1. X-Files
2. Firefly
3. New Battlestar Galactica
4. The original Twilight Zone
5. ST:TNG

Honorable mentions for Space:1999 and Space:  Above and Beyond, and Futurama

Worst:

1. Buck Rogers 
2. ST:TOS
3. Earth: Final Conflict / Andromeda (Because they both sucked, and I didn't watch them enough to keep them straight in my head)
4. Red Dwarf
5. Ultraman (fondly remembered from my youth, but dear god does it stink)

I've got to find someone to borrow the B5 DVDs from -- I tried to watch the first season and absolutely *hated* it, and never watched again.  Enough people whose opinions I trust like it that I feel obliged to give it another shot.


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## Klaus (Apr 19, 2005)

I'll cave in and list some of the sci-fi TV shows that made up my childhood:
Buck Rogers
Automan
Manimal
Battlestar Galactica
Six-Million-Dollar Man
Incredible Hulk
Lost World (sleeeeeesssstaaaaaks!)

Let the mocking commence!


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## Khayman (Apr 19, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> 2- Space Rangers --Anybody remeber this one (...)




Unfortunately, yes. But it was still better than Manimal.

What was it, 1993 or 94? Lasted a whole 4 episodes. Dorky looking android in pancake makeup --- imagine an albino Kryten from Red Dwarf. Shapeshifting assassin. yawwwwwwn


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## Datt (Apr 19, 2005)

jonesy said:
			
		

> *Best*:Honorable mention goes to the show where this ship sets out to colonize another planet and ends up crashing on it. The name escapes me.




Earth 2 with the delicious Rebecca Gayheart.


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## Hand of Evil (Apr 19, 2005)

*BEST* 
1...Farscape 
2...Angel
3...Babylon 5
4...Stargate SG1
5...Firefly
6...Buffy
7...LOST - going to drop if they don't get some new shows on
8...Twilight Zone - Outer Limits - Night Stalker
9...Dr Who
10..Sea Quest - Lost in Space - Space 1889

*Worst*
1...Star Trek - I know it is in my best list but that was ST 
2...X-Files 
3...BattleStar Galactica (both)
4...Earth: Final Conflict
5...Andromeda 
6...Buck Rogers


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## jonesy (Apr 19, 2005)

Datt said:
			
		

> Earth 2 with the delicious Rebecca Gayheart.



Yes! That's the one. Thank you. What a wonderful show that was.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 19, 2005)

Gomez said:
			
		

> 5. *Cleopatra 2525*- yeck!




Hey, I worked on Cleo!

... well, okay, fair point 



			
				Klaus said:
			
		

> I'll name one series that really scared me as a kid: V. The scene with the Visitor lady swallowing the rat really spooked me when I was 8!




Oooh, Jane Badler.  I had such a crush on Jane Badler.

-Hyp.


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## Tauric (Apr 20, 2005)

Best:

1.  Farscape
2.  Stargate SG-1
3.  Invisible Man
4.  Deep Space 9
5.  SeaQuest DSV

I would have included Buffy, Angel, G vs. E, and Highlander, but I don't consider them sci-fi, to me they're more fantasy (emphasis on magic, supernatural, and all).

Worst:

1.  Andromeda
2.  Tracker
3.  Sliders
4.  Roswell
5.  BSG (the original)


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## Dark Psion (Apr 20, 2005)

Live action Best
1: Babylon 5: Epic storytelling, should be required viewing for all future TV producers.
2: Star Trek DS9: Star Trek, Now with conflict, less than perfect people and profit$$.
3: Battlestar Galatica (Sci-Fi): I was prepared to hate it, but it just blew me away.
4: Dr Who: Where to start, you have 27 years of viewing just to catch up to the new Doctor.
5: Firefly: What could have been?

Honorable Mention: Space Above & Beyond: When I get DVDs, then I'll add it to the list.

Animated Best
1: X-men Evolution: Another I prepared to hate, but they pulled it off perfectly.
2: Galaxy Rangers: One of my favorites growing up and now on DVD.
3: Batman TAS: Best Batman ever!
4: Battle of the Planets/G-Force/ Gatchaman: It is coming out on DVD, but re-edited back to the original dialog.
5: Witch Hunter Robin: My personal favorite Anime.

Honorable Mention: Bionic Six: Just waiting for those DVDs

Live Action Worst
1: Andromeda/Final Conflict: Both started off so good and had so much potiential and then went to TV Hell.
2: Star Trek Voyager/ Enterprise: Berman And Bragga, Nuff said!
3: Original Battlestar Galactica/ Galactica 1980: Another example of the network screwing up a series.
4: X-Files: Just went on too long without finding that truth that was out there.
5: Every other version of the Twilight Zone: Nothing compares to the original.

Animated Worst
1: Yu-gi-oh, Dragonball Z, One Piece and every other imported anime that gets edited for an American audience. Leave them Alone!
2: All those Live actor to Cartoon shows from long ago Saturday morinings: MrT, Harlem Globetrotters, Mork, Fonzie, and yes, The Gary Coleman show
3: Any Re-imagined classic cartoon characters, See the new Loonitics and Buzz Bunny.


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## Wombat (Apr 20, 2005)

I have watched little tv over the past few years, and due to that and some other points, I shall only list the shows that I loved  

1)  _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_ -- simply a fantastic show; great characters, great stories, deep development
2)  _X-Files_ -- again, great characters and deep development, although by the end the development was so deep that no one understood it anymore...
3)  _Star Trek (TOS)_ -- what can I say?  Unlike the other shows that were on at the same period, this show was head and shoulders above.  Dated now, yes, but compare it to the shows that beat it in the ratings (Lost In Space, Time Tunnel).
4)  _Dr. Who_ -- this show got people interested in history, in sci fi, and was proof that tight scripts and good acting will always be more important than a reliance on special effects.
5)  _Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy_ and/or _Neverwhere _-- whopping great fun, imaginative, and purely wild!


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Apr 20, 2005)

Tauric said:
			
		

> I would have included Buffy, Angel...but I don't consider them sci-fi, to me they're more fantasy (emphasis on magic, supernatural, and all).




Hey now.  At various times Buffy had robots, cyborgs, an Internet monster, ray guns, hacking, and psychic powers.  Hell, Angel had ROBOT NINJAS.


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## Darth K'Trava (Apr 20, 2005)

Top 5:

1: Babylon 5-this show rulz with its complex plots and ever-changing characters!
2: Star Trek DS9- Great show, a different take on Trek. More gritty than the rest!
3: Godzilla- Love the big "lizard"! It was campy, but fun campy!   
4: Sliders- Parallel worlds well done!
5: Quantum Leap- Al was a trip to watch! And the situations that they got put in...   


The worst:

1: Star Trek: Voyager- Stupid "remake" of Gilligan's Island. Same premise, just in space.
2: Battlestar Galactica- Couldn't get into it at all. Prefer watching the original of which I'd only seen a few eps.
3: X-Files- Never was into that whole aliens/weird crap sorta thing.
4: Ultraman- super cheesy. Makes Godzilla seem like it has a budget!
5: Earth Final Conflict- Went under the WTF category.


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## Villano (Apr 20, 2005)

Just sticking to live action shows (there are too many cartoons to count):

*Best* (in no particular order)

1.) B5
2.) ST: DS9
3.) Kolchak The Night Stalker - It had robots, aliens, etc.
4.) Adventures Of Brisco County, Jr - time travel, the Orb, etc.
5.) X-Files

Twilight Zone would probably have to be considered one of the best of all time, but it's not really a personal favorite.  Also, just missing the list for me are Alien Nation and Batman (the 60s series).  MST3K had some great stuff, but that's not really a series.

As a kid, I was a fan of a lot of the stuff people seem to hate, like Buck Rogers, Battlestar: Galactica, Knight Rider, Manimal, and Automan.  I could never bring myself to hate them.   

*Worst* 

1.) Nightman - Oh God, the horror! 
2.) ST: Voyager
3.) Galactica 1980
4.) X-Files - Yes, both the best and worst of sci-fi.
5.) M.A.N.T.I.S. - He was killed by an invisible dinosaur.  Even Aquaman isn't that bad.

There are many other short-lived series that were terrible that probably deserve to be on that list, but I can't think of them at the moment.  

Andromeda just missed the cut (I remembered Mantis as I was typing).  Really, anything made after Roddenberry's death that had his name in the title is a pretty safe bet for any worst list.  

The recent Sinbad series was so bad it made my brain hurt, however it's fantasy and not really sci-fi.  Same goes for Xena (it was an okay series until they did the "kill the gods" thing). 

Many, many bad shows:  Seaquest, The Lost World, Jack Of All Trades, and even Next Gen (more bad episodes than good, when you think about it).


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## Pants (Apr 20, 2005)

Villano said:
			
		

> 4.) Adventures Of Brisco County, Jr - time travel, the Orb, etc.



Oh man, that show was so campy fun.  It had everything!  Sci-Fi, Ninjas, Magic, Tanks, and Bruce Campbell! 

Here's my favorites:
1) Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
2) Lost (I'm classifying it as Sci-Fi!)
3) Farscape 
4) X-Files
5) FireFly

Honorable Mention: Adventures Of Brisco County Jr.

Worst:
1) Star Trek: Voyager
2) Andromeda
3) Sliders
4) Star Trek: TNG (Okay, so this show has some really good episodes, but fully 80% really, really suck.  The first 2 seasons are pretty bad to begin with.)
5) X-Files (Yeah, best and worst. It was great in the beginning, but it just went on too long and lost its vision.  Such a waste.)


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## mojo1701 (Apr 20, 2005)

I don't watch as much Sci-Fi TV. I don't watch much regularly anymore. I'm only mentioning top shows, and shows that were 'meh.' The bad shows I won't list, since I really don't remember them since I didn't watch them.

Top 3:

1. *Star Trek: TNG and DS9: too different, but both had strong points
2. The X-Files: Cult Classic.
3. Star Trek: TOS: Ok, so I'm way too young to have remembered this, but now, thanks to the invention that is the BitTorrent and the DVD... Still too campy and outdated for me, but quite a lot of good episodes to be mentioned.

Shows on the border:

1. Andromeda: loved the first 3 seasons. After that...
2. Star Trek: Voyager: First full series of Trek I watched. It was good, but didn't match up to its siblings.
3. Enterprise: se1 & 2: ehh... se3: not bad... se4: WOW.
4. The Outer Limits: Some episodes were too out there, but I saw some reruns as I was older, and some episodes were quite good.

I was always the impression that there were a lot of Trek fans. When I started reading these boards, there aren't a lot of them here.*


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## John Crichton (Apr 20, 2005)

Meh, sci-fi TV stinks.


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## reanjr (Apr 20, 2005)

I'm not a Sci-Fi fan, so my best list is a bit truncated and my worst list would probably be much different if I had ever bothered watching more sci-fi shows:

BEST
X Files
Firefly (would probably have beaten X Files if it hadn't been canceled)
Outer Limits
Star Trek: The Next Generation

WORST
Farscape
Aeon Flux
Star Trek
Stargate SG-1
Sliders


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## Darrin Drader (Apr 20, 2005)

Best
1. Babylon 5. The writing and the fact that it stuck to a single story from beginning to end over the course of 5 years really set the bar for excellence. Like someone before, it was the first series I ever taped from beginning to end before I purchased the DVDs.
2. Battlestar Galactica 2004. This is the first time that we've seen any true grit in our scifi. This comes across as far more realistic than it really should, which is a good thing. I hope it has a long life.
3. X-Files. The supernatural is something that has been tackled by many series, but this is the first time it was done with such style. I agree that it kind of petered out at the end, but even the last couple of seasons were worth watching.
4. Farscape. Hello? Probably the most original series ever. It didn't always make a lot of sense, but that was part of the charm. It was very out there, but for what it was, the acting was amazing, the effects were great, and the writing was equally wonderful. Definitely a series I need to get on DVD.
5. Stargat SG-1. It took me until the last year or so to actually grok it, but once I did, I fell in love with it. Sure, it isn't edgy in the same sense that the new BSG is, but it is a very good show.
Honorable Mention: The Incredible Hulk. Bill Bixby, Lou Ferigno, they were the definitive hulk. After that show there is no reason to ever revisit it on film.

Worst
1. Andromeda. I went into this wanting to like it. I enjoyed Sorbo in Hercules and I thought that putting him in a space opera would be fun. Boy was I mistaken.
2. Voyager. Another total piece of crap that I wanted to like but ended up hating. They should have aborted that series two years into it and made way for a Captain Riker series.
3. Sliders. It seemed to suffer from a terminal lack of continuity. Other than that, it just wasn't very interesting.
4. Buck Rogers. Even as a kid I thought it was stupid with bad effects and bad acting. Sure it was the '70s, but that isn't really an excuse.
5. Gene Roddenberry's Earth: Final Conflict. How did this piece of trash ever get the green light. Bad. Bad. Bad. Bad. I can't believe it stayed on the air as long as it did.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 20, 2005)

Villano said:
			
		

> The recent Sinbad series was so bad it made my brain hurt, however it's fantasy and not really sci-fi.  Same goes for Xena (it was an okay series until they did the "kill the gods" thing).
> 
> Many, many bad shows:  Jack Of All Trades...




Oi!  I worked on Xena _and_ Jack!

Though I have to agree about Sinbad.  First time I saw a fight on that show, I fell off my chair and couldn't stop laughing for ten minutes...

-Hyp.


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## driver8 (Apr 20, 2005)

Best:
Star Trek TNG -Party becasue of the time and place for me when it came out- Pre internet (sort of). The season ending cliffhangers when the show hit its stride were simply great, zeitgeit things for my circle of college friends.

Firefly- great stories, charcters, visual style, sigh.

Stargate SG-1 In its prime SG-1 delivered great sci-fi action as opposed to say Voyagers boring gabfests.


Worst-

Hercules. It started out ok but just got a bit repititve. And Xena overtook in in terms of humor, watchability and cultural importance.

Babylon 5. Again started out ok, but the glacially slow moving plots and the ending of some story arcs (Captain to aliens "Get the hell out of my galaxy!") Add to that the addition of Bruce Boxleitner and alot of 70s and 80 actors and well, meh. Although Stephen Furst was cool.

Any mid 90's cheap sydicated fantasy series trying to jump on Xena bandwagon-Queen of Blades (?), Jack of All Trades, Black Scorpion (the female superhero series on Sci-Fi), And that show with Tia Carerre as a Laura Croft rip off.


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## trancejeremy (Apr 20, 2005)

Worst:
------------

1) Firefly

Decent premise, but the execution really was bad.  

2) Battlestar Galactica 2.0 

The original was rather dopey, but the new version combines the dopiness of the original with all new sorts of just plain stupidity.  Alien sex-bots that have a glowing spine but can't be told from a real human? Uh yeah, that's possible.  Ships carrying tons and tons of water? Oh yeah, that's smart, given that todays's spaceships recycle water at an efficiently level pretty much so high that the water in the food replaces what is lost.  I guess they spent all their research efforts on the sex-bots.

3) Farscape

Just seeing the actors of the shows makes me want to take a shower. Each one is creepier looking than the next. Even the ones not in makeup.  Couldn't they get a female star that doesn't look like Ernest Borgnine? Sheeesh

4) Sliders (Good idea, but I just want to smack that Jerry Connell guy).
5) Firefly (so awful it deserves to be on the list twice)

Best:
---------
1) Dr. Who
2) Blakes 7
3) Buck Rogers (okay, the 2nd season was pretty bad. But the first is surprisingly good at times.)
4) Babylon 5
5) V


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## Kesh (Apr 20, 2005)

Never mind, someone beat me to it, and I'm too tired to make a list right now.


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## Romulan_Knight (Apr 20, 2005)

Best:
1: Voyager.(Ow yeah borg).
2: Deep space nine. (Big space battles is the best thing).
3: Battlestar glacticer. (Just great).
4: Star trek TNG. (Just great).

Worst:
1: Enterprise.(Too slow and primative).
2: Star Trek TOS.(But not the movies).


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## MonsterMash (Apr 20, 2005)

Best only (I prefer to erase the worst from my memory)
1. Dr Who
2. Blakes 7
3. Captain Scarlet
4. X-Files
5. UFO 

Honourable mentions:
Hitchikers Guide to the Galaxy - though the books and radio series are far superior
Star Trek and Star Trek TNG
Quatermass (several series)


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## Belen (Apr 20, 2005)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Worst:
> ------------
> 
> 1) Firefly
> ...




Well, there is always at least one person in the crowd who thinks that greatness is bad.


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## Orius (Apr 20, 2005)

Orius' Sci-Fi/fantasy review:

Best

*Star Trek*:  I think that says it all.
*Star Trek DS9*: The best of the modern Treks.  Great writing and characters, pays approprite homage to the original where the others tend to ignore it.
*Babylon 5*:  Started out with a slow first season, but by the end of the first season, the plot hooks start to really pull you in.
*Stargate SG1*:  I've never taken the whole "aliens built the pyramids" idea seriously at all, but Stargate managed to take that premise and build a pretty good franchise with it.  A well written show that can go from serious to funny, and which has successfully managed to cover the same sort of ground as Star Trek.
*The Twilight Zone (original)*: It's simply a classic thought-provoking show.
*Earth 2*: This show had a lot of potential, but network meddling ultimately killed it.  The fact that the storyline got more complex and tangled as the series went on didn't help.
*The Adventures of Brisco County Jr.*: Completely totally silly and over the top, but it was still a hell of a fun show to watch.  It's a shame this show didn't survive yet X-Files did.
*Quantum Leap*: One of the few Sci-Fi shows to survive on a network.  Not really much else to say on this besides the fact I liked it.
*Hercules: The Legendary Journeys*: Yeah, I know a lot of people hate Sorbo.  But this is a fun, campy show with silly rubber and CGI monsters that knew better than to take itself too seriously.  It suffered from some anachronisms true, but the fact that it could pull of some seriously episodes as well as the camp makes it a great and entertaining show.

Worst:
*Star Trek: Voyager*: I think that says it all.
*X-Files*: I hate conspiracy theories.
*Battlestar Galactica (original)*: Pretty much a lame ass cheesy space opera that made little sense.  However the updated version from what little I've seen of it shows some promise.
*SeaQuest DSV*: A classic example of a network ruining a show.  The first season had some promise, but that was squandered in the second season's attepmt to get younger viewers interested.  The third season was a decent attempt at saving the show, but it was too little too late.  This show endured a painfully long death.
*Andromeda*: A classic example of why actors should stay actors and not become producers.  A shame too, because this show started off strong.
*Space: Above and Beyond*: Let's have Earth fight a long and depressing war with an inexorable enemy that's ultimately unbeatable.  No thanks.
*Lost in Space*: Danger! Danger!  This is really *bad* TV.
*Sinbad*: An attempt to cash in on Hercules' success, Sinbad suffered from bad writing and acting.
*Conan*: A show with even *worse* acting and writing than Sinbad.


----------



## Rackhir (Apr 20, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> Orius' Sci-Fi/fantasy review:
> *SeaQuest DSV*: A classic example of a network ruining a show.  The first season had some promise, but that was squandered in the second season's attepmt to get younger viewer interested.  The third season was a decent attempt at saving the show, but it was too little too late.  This show endured a painfully long death.




Gee, THANKS... I'd finally managed to blot this show from my memory and now you go and dredge it up.


----------



## Thanee (Apr 20, 2005)

Hmm...

*Some I liked:*

Babylon 5
Star Trek: Deep Space Nine
Space: Above and Beyond
Dark Angel (1st season was cool, 2nd wasn't really good anymore)
Thunderbirds

Havn't seen Battlestar Glactica and much of Firefly yet, but from what I heard, I'll probably like them, too.

And an honorable mention for Captain Future and Flash Gordon. 

*Some I disliked:*

Star Trek: Voyager
Farscape
Andromeda
...
and the countless others I have already forgotten about... 

Bye
Thanee


----------



## Gomez (Apr 20, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> And an honorable mention for Captain Future and Flash Gordon.
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




Captain Future Rocks!


----------



## Villano (Apr 20, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Oi!  I worked on Xena _and_ Jack!




But I always thought that *you* were good in them.   

I really, really wanted to like Jack.  It had some good ideas, but went a little too goofy.  Plus, I could never get past the look of it (the recycled Hercules sets).  It had a great theme song, though.

And I like it's sister series, Cleopatra 2525.  But, then again, I love Gina Torres...  



> Though I have to agree about Sinbad.  First time I saw a fight on that show, I fell off my chair and couldn't stop laughing for ten minutes...
> 
> -Hyp.




My favorite part was the cyclops with the obvious mask.  Those who've seen it know what I'm talking about.   I wish I had a link to a picture, because it's not something that can be described.


----------



## VorpalBunny (Apr 20, 2005)

*Best*
Star Trek: DS9
Star Trek: TOS
Babylon 5
Firefly
Ron Moore's Battlestar Galactica
The Outer Limits (Original)
The Twilight Zone (Original)

*Worst*
Star Trek: Voyager
Star Trek: Enterprise
Andromeda
Galactica 1980
Earth: Final Conflict
SeaQuest DSV
Lost in Space


----------



## thalmin (Apr 20, 2005)

Best:
Twilight Zone (original)
Star Trek (original)
Battlestar Galactica (current series)
 Worst
Captain Video
Buck Rogers
Lost in Space
Battlestar Galactica 1980
Bionic Woman


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Apr 20, 2005)

Best
1. Babylon 5 - Season one was a setup, then the show ran like hell until the end of season 4 when they crammed stuff together to avoid leaving the main plot unresoved when they anticipated cancellation.  Season 5 still had a lot of great stuff though.  Overall the best written Sci-Fi show to date.  Londo Mollari is my favorite Sci-Fi character next to the Doctor.

2. Red Dwarf - 8 series of gut busting hillarity.  Awesome characters and fantastic writing.  This show was amazing.  I loved all 8 seasons.  Too bad the Smeg heads cancelled it after that.  

3. Doctor Who - While any show that has ran for 26+ years will have some stinkers, most of the stories were excellent and overcame the horrid budgets.   The new show is good, but I really love the time from Patrick Troughton - Tom Baker.  Classic stuff.   The Cybermen are where the fan favorite Borg were stolen from, and the Daleks with thier shrill chants of EXTERMINATE are great.  Stories ran a huge range of styles and themes.  Great show. 

4. Star Trek - TOS - Great adventures and dealt with all kinds of social issues(the Kirk/Uhura kiss was radical at the time), and had a great feel.  I really liked the characters and the setting.  To bad the shows tha followed were not as good. 

5. Battlestar Galactica - The new series is excellent.  A real military feel to the crew and a lot of good stores.  Some weak plot points but overall I get engrossed by the show when I watch it.  One hell of a cliffhanger ending to season 1!  I love the religion angle and the possibilities it opens up. 

Honorable Mention
Quantum Leap, Star Trek DS9, The X-Files, The Outer Limits(original)

The Bad
1.  Star Trek Voyager - Just horrid.  Instead of really making it a desperate attempt to get home, it became standard Star Trek in the Delta Quadrant.   Just a terribly written show, when I did watch it I did so for 7of9 and her wonderful...parts.  

2. Mutant X - Jeez this show was horrid.  I guess they throw X in the title and have a thinly ripped off X men theme and people will watch?  Ugh.  

3. Star Trek Enterprise - A show with so much potential destroyed by terrible plots and writing for the first three seasons.  Unless Tpal is getting decontaminated leave me out!

4. Sliders - A lot of great potential wasted.  It was ok until they got rid of the professor and got that one chick on there.  Again, a lot of wasted potential. 

5. Cleopatra 2525 - nothing more needs to be said.  

Dishonorable mentions - Galactica 1980, Andromeda, Earth: Final Conflict, Stargate SG-1


----------



## billd91 (Apr 20, 2005)

My favorites (in no particular order):

1. Star Trek TOS
2. Star Trek DS9
3. Babylon 5
4. Dr Who (middle years - Pertwee, T. Baker)
5. Battlestar Galactica


Ones I don't like:

1. Star Trek Voyager
2. Red Dwarf
3. Dr. Who (later years)
4. X-files
5. Land of the Lost


----------



## Khayman (Apr 20, 2005)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> 2) Battlestar Galactica 2.0
> 
> The original was rather dopey, but the new version combines the dopiness of the original with all new sorts of just plain stupidity.  Alien sex-bots that have a glowing spine but can't be told from a real human? Uh yeah, that's possible.  Ships carrying tons and tons of water? Oh yeah, that's smart, given that todays's spaceships recycle water at an efficiently level pretty much so high that the water in the food replaces what is lost.  I guess they spent all their research efforts on the sex-bots.




Actually, hauling around all that water makes a certain sense if you're using it as armour --- essentially, a mass between you and potential sources of radioactivity. Like Cylon nukes.

'Course, I might not drink it then...


----------



## Hypersmurf (Apr 20, 2005)

driver8 said:
			
		

> Worst-
> 
> Hercules. It started out ok but just got a bit repititve.




[sigh]

Anyone else wanna insult my work?  

(For the record, I'm well aware that none of the PRP shows were High Art   But they were a blast to work on, and I can console myself that there _is_ an obvious quality gap between Herc and Xena, and, say, Sinbad or The New Adventures of Robin Hood.)

-Hyp.


----------



## mojo1701 (Apr 20, 2005)

Hey, I enjoyed Sinbad!


----------



## PhoenixDarkDirk (Apr 21, 2005)

Wow.  Am I the only one here who likes Roswell?

Some shows I especially like include Stargate SG-1, Stargate Atlantis, The 4400, Firefly, John Doe, Farscape, and Sliders.

I've never really gotten into Star Trek in any of its incarnations.  I saw some of the movies and scattered episodes of most of the series, but in never did much for me.


----------



## wingsandsword (Apr 21, 2005)

*Best:*
_Babylon 5 _- The best TV Sci-Fi ever.  Everyone else can learn from this one.
_Star Trek: Deep Space Nine _- Trek's Finest Hour
_Sliders (First Season Only) _- A great "Alternate Worlds" series, the best treatment of that concept I've seen.  Started out wonderful but started to drop like a rock later on.
_(New) Battlestar Galactica _- I've loved every episode.  It might have anachronistic bits, but it thrives on it's internal consistency, realism of it's characters and the implied mythology of the entire setting.
_X-Files_ - Conspiracy Sci-Fi at it's best.  Spawned an entire genre of imitators, but it was the best.  The only thing that could have made it better is if the writers actually knew what the "big secret" was instead of making it up as they went along.

_Honorable Mention:_ SeaQuest DSV (First Season Only), V, Original Battlestar Galactica, 

*Worst:*
_Star Trek: Voyager _- Star Trek without the intelligently written scripts, internal consistency, or even vague plausibility.  This is the series which gave us the episode "Threshold" (a.k.a. "Transwarp Frogs in Space!").
_Galactica: 1980 - _A vaguely decent premise, which was trashed right out of the gate.
_Lost In Space -_ Everything wrong about TV Sci-Fi in one convenient package, bad writing, bad acting, atrocious special effects, and an infinitely annoying little kid.
_Andromeda_ - If the sets and costumes were carved out of cheddar it couldn't get cheesier.  One of the worst of the litter of the 90's Sci-Fi boom.  It was "Hercules In Space!"
_SeaQuest DSV (2nd Season and later) -_ Soggy Star Trek rip-off.  It went from pretty plausible actual near-future science-fiction to travelling through space to the oceans of other planets and jumping through time.

_Dishonorable Mention:_ Sliders (2nd season and on), Earth: Final Conflict, Total Recall 2070


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 21, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> [sigh]
> 
> Anyone else wanna insult my work?
> 
> ...




I guess since you seem to work on all of them.... yup.


----------



## Rackhir (Apr 21, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> [sigh]
> 
> Anyone else wanna insult my work?
> 
> ...




I LOVED Jack of All Trades, but I am a big Bruce Campbell fan. 


.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
uh, oh ah, you wouldn't happen to have any "acquired" any"candid" photos of Angela Dotchin? While working on the show?


----------



## Hypersmurf (Apr 21, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> uh, oh ah, you wouldn't happen to have any "acquired" any"candid" photos of Angela Dotchin? While working on the show?




I fear my camera reflexes are lousy.  I don't remember the last time I took a photo...

-Hyp.


----------



## SuperGamera (Apr 21, 2005)

First, I'll have to divide between "classic" (1977 and before) and "modern" (after 1977); with Star Wars, the whole approach to sci-fi television changed

"classic" top 5:
Twilight Zone - pretty much a given, it's influenced most good (and a lot of bad) sci-fi since
Outer Limits - not as good, but still memorable
ST:TOS - again, this set the standard for space sci-fi to follow, for good and bad
The Prisoner - maybe a tough call as sci-fi, but advanced electronics, mind control, rockets and a giant animated ball combine to put it in this category.  Plus, it really messed me up as a child.
Batman - yes, it's campy and set back comics years, but it's still a lot of fun

honorable semi-genre mentions: 
Wild Wild West - steampunk before there was the word
Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea - submarine adventure was the space adventure of its day.  "Seaquest" certainly didn't beat it

"classic" bottom 5:
Lost in Space - I thought it was dumb as a kid, and still don't like it
Land of the Lost - liked it a little more, but has aged very badly
Dr Who - I know this is heresy, but while there are many good episodes, they are outweighed by the bad
Electra Woman and DynaGirl - just plain bad
Time Tunnel - best of the worst, but has been done better by later shows

Disappointing mention:
Six Million Dollar Man - great intro and first years, but had a long slide downhill

"Modern" Top 5 (no particular order):
SG-1/Atlantis: Not high art, but conistent sci-fi that does a good balance between episodic stories and plot arcs.  Probably the most family-friendly scifi currently out, with a strong non-cheesecake female character and not much in the way of "mature" themes (my 13 yo enjoys this a lot more than BSG)
DS9: Not pure Trek, but the best Trek Universe show.  Got too mystical at the end, but still several strong seasons.
Firefly: Had great potential, and some great episodes.
Farscape: certainly a "love it or hate it" show.  I happen to love it, as a show that was brave enough to both try bizarre ideas and to not take itself too seriously.
BSG (new version): here on probationary status; hopefully, the second season will be as good

Honorable mention: B5 - had 3 of the best-written seasons of sci-fi, but the acting and mediocre seasons 1 and 5 keep it just off the last

"Modern" bottom 5:
Final Season Award (shared) - "Battlestar 80", "Buck Rogers", "War of the Worlds" - all fair to decent shows that were ruined by a change in the core concept
NBC Superhero Award (shared) - Manimal and Powers of Matthew Star - both too short to get their own slot.  And don't forget "Misfits of Science"!
V (the series) - miniseries was great, but the series simply ran out of steam and budget.  when a 10 yo can spot recycled, mis-matched footage, you've got a problem.
ABC Superhero Award (shared) - Automan and "The Phoenix" - early 80's was a bad time for TV scifi
ST Voyager - best of the worst; could have been great, and had some great episodes, but degenerated into "The 7-of-9 and Doctor Show" near the end, and had a simply awful finale

Disappointing mention:
Crusade - Ted Turner and JMS do not make a good combination.  Could have been a good show (Starblazers/Yamato in B5), but clashes ruined it


----------



## Mad Hatter (Apr 21, 2005)

I don't want to make a list now, but I do want to comment on two shows that have been getting flak.

Andromeda's first 2 seasons were good.  The characters of Tyr and Rev Bem were good concepts.  But they wrote Bem out because the actor had some allergice reaction.  Tyr's character was driven into the ground because the show became all about Sorbo.

Earth: Final Conflict's first two seasons were good as well.  Kevin Kilner as Boone was still on the show and the character of Da'an was sufficiently shady but overall good.  The problem came with Liam and the fact that season 5 had almost nothing to do with what came before it.


----------



## Kelleris (Apr 21, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> [sigh]
> 
> Anyone else wanna insult my work?
> 
> ...




Just how were you involved with these shows?  Extra? Assistant grip?  I'm all curious now...


----------



## The Mad Kaiser (Apr 21, 2005)

Best:
1. Mystery Science Theater 3000
2. DS9 (last season excluded)
3. Farscape
4. Red Dwarf
5. Twilight Zone
6. BSG (2004-05)

Worst:
1. Anything remotely associated with Scott "Tender-Vittles" Bakula
2. Homeboyz in Outer Space
3. Lois & Clark: The New Adventures of Superman
4. Land Of The Giants
5. Space Precinct
6. War Of The Worlds


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 21, 2005)

SuperGamera said:
			
		

> NBC Superhero Award (shared) - Manimal and Powers of Matthew Star - both too short to get their own slot.  And don't forget "Misfits of Science"!
> 
> ABC Superhero Award (shared) - Automan and "The Phoenix" - early 80's was a bad time for TV scifi




Aww... I loved Misfits of Science and Automan!

Okay, so I was about eight, but even so!  



			
				Kelleris said:
			
		

> Just how were you involved with these shows? Extra? Assistant grip? I'm all curious now...




Stunts.  I spent about four years as henchman to the BBEGotW.

-Hyp.


----------



## Kelleris (Apr 21, 2005)

Oh, so you weren't just a member of the set crew or something, you were one of those guys Xena randomly flips over.  (In the physical and not metaphorical sense, of course.)  Cool!

Now I'm going to see you in a weird barbarian hat every time I read one of your posts (for some reason, my dominant memory of those New Zealand shows).

Well, that and Iolaus dying or nearly dying biweekly in the mid-later seasons of Hercules.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Apr 21, 2005)

Some of the 'missing' shows I have not seen on the lists.    

Planet of the Apes
Man from Atlantis
Wonderwoman
Man and Machine 
Witchblade
Robocop 
She Spys
Knight Rider
...more


----------



## Ant (Apr 21, 2005)

I notice that the two people who rated Red Dwarf in their Top 5 Worst are American.  Seeing as my brain can not comprehend someone not liking the antics of the crew of the Small Rouge One can I put this down to the eternal American/British humour conflict?

Otherwise I'm very, very confused.


----------



## mojo1701 (Apr 21, 2005)

SuperGamera said:
			
		

> ST Voyager - best of the worst; could have been great, and had some great episodes, but degenerated into "The 7-of-9 and Doctor Show" near the end, and had a simply awful finale




I'll agree with 7 of 9, but, c'mon!, the Doctor was a great character. Would've been great if they had given Harry Kim some character development, besides being the kid. 



			
				Kelleris said:
			
		

> Oh, so you weren't just a member of the set crew or something, you were one of those guys Xena randomly flips over.  (In the physical and not metaphorical sense, of course.)  Cool!




I said he'll flip ya. Flip ya for real.


----------



## Lord Pendragon (Apr 21, 2005)

*Best SF:*

1.  _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_.  This is Star Trek at its best.  Season- and Series-long story arcs, non-regulars with depth and background (Garrick, Gul Ducat, Kai Wyn...) intriguing philosophical premises ("Wormhole aliens or Gods?", "Can you be a religious savior of a religion you don't believe in?" etc.) and lots of space combat thrown in for good measure.  Absolutely fantastic.

2.  _Farscape_.  This show has a great mixture of character-driven plot and wild off-the-cuff style.  I thought the acting was pretty good, and the universe interesting and exciting.

3.  _The Twilight Zone (original)_.  The greatest.  Rod Serling was a genius, pure and simple.  The only reason is isn't #1 is because I like story arcs.  But every episode of TZ is fantastic.

4.  _Earth: Final Conflict_ (Boone seasons).  People have bashed this show a lot upthread, but I thought the first seasons of this show were fantastic.  The Taelons are one of the few alien races that truly feels alien, and the show had a wonderful story arc that made the viewer wonder how things were going to turn out.  Where _were_ Da'an's loyalties?  What secrets were they hiding from humanity?  What were they running from?  Unfortunately it all turned to crap in later seasons when the producers decided to abandon the story arc format for self-contained episodes of general worthlessness, and killed off Boone, the character around whom the entire show revolved.

5.  _X-Files_.  I'm not a fan of the series story arc about the alien invasion, but I think the individual episodes are some of the best sci-fi out there, almost like modern Twilight Zone episodes.  A lot of them are extremely well-written and acted.  I've often wished a series would come out that treats magic in the same way.

Extra:  I've heard good things about _Babylon 5_, and seen a few great episodes (the Sheridan torture eps. was _almost_ as good as the Picard torture eps. from ST:TNG), but didn't ever get the chance to watch the whole series, so it didn't make my list.  I loved _Firefly_ but don't think I can judge it against complete series, when only six episodes aired.  I also liked _Dark Angel_ and the episodes of the new _Battlestar Galactica_ that I've seen, though they're not Top 5 material (though BG may make it when the series is complete.)

*Worst SF:*

1.  _Star Trek: Voyager_.  It had a few good episodes (I loved the one with the Saurians and their refusal to admit they had migrated from another planet, rather than been born in their sector of space, as their religion claimed,) but on the whole was utter garbage.

2.  _Mutant X_.  A twisted, commercialized take on the X-Men.  Gather a bunch of beautiful but untalented actors together, put them in black leather and give them horrible scripts.  Fantastic!  Mutant X shares a special place in my heart because my mom often accidentally taped it for me instead of _The Pretender_ while I was in Japan.  ARGH!

3.  _Stargate: SG-1_.  I'm sorry, I know a lot of people like this show, but the more I watch it, the more I consider it crap.  The production design is fantastic, but the scripts and characters are garbage.  How on Earth I'm supposed to believe that the fate of the world rests in the hands of Jack O'Neill I will never understand.  And that's only the beginning of the hokiness the audience is expected to swallow.

4.  _The Twilight Zone (new)_.  No original concepts, combined with the most awful host I could have imagined for the show = teh suck.

5.  _Nightman_.  Possibly the worst superhero show I've ever seen.


----------



## Barendd Nobeard (Apr 21, 2005)

I was going to post a "What? No votes for {list of shows}?!" message, but some of the more obscure ones have been mentioned (thanks thalmin, Hand of Evil, SuperGamera, and other for remember the obscure classics/garbage).  My list included: Land of the Giants, Man from Atlantis, Voyage to the Bottom of the Sea, Time Tunnel, Batman, The Six Million Dollar Man, The Bionic Woman, Prisoner: Cellblock H, Bible Man, Millenium, The Second 100 Years, and My Mother the Car.

Heck, someone even mentioned ElectraWoman and DynaGirl!

But, still, no one mentioned Dr. Shrinker, Wonderbug, or Johnny Socko and his Giant Robot.


----------



## Barendd Nobeard (Apr 21, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Oi!  I worked on Xena _and_ Jack!
> 
> Though I have to agree about Sinbad.  First time I saw a fight on that show, I fell off my chair and couldn't stop laughing for ten minutes...
> 
> -Hyp.



 I loved the Xena episode where she rescued someone and then they complained that they were "hoping for Sinbad"--the look on Lucy Lawless' face was priceless.

I can't remember the title, but it was during the first four seasons (I quit watching after that), and it was the "Groundhog Day"-plot episode.


----------



## SuperGamera (Apr 21, 2005)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Aww... I loved Misfits of Science and Automan!
> 
> Okay, so I was about eight, but even so!




By 1983, I was already spoiled by Late 70's/Early 80's anime, so the fact that Automan never blew anything up or shot anybody didn't appeal to my suger-fueled brain.  It lost out to shows like "Knight Rider", "Magnum PI", and "Tales of the Gold Monkey" on my TV viewing.

Ah, looking at the TV schedules, I understand why we never watched "Misfits of Science".  I got to watch "Knight Rider" before and "Miami Vice" afterwards, but my mom got the TV at 8 pm to watch "Dallas".  Even when I did get to watch it, it just didn't do anything for me, even though I loved superheroes at the time. 

Still, if Courtney Cox had played her "Misfits of Science" character on "Friends", I would have enjoyed it a lot more!


----------



## SuperGamera (Apr 21, 2005)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I'll agree with 7 of 9, but, c'mon!, the Doctor was a great character. Would've been great if they had given Harry Kim some character development, besides being the kid.




It wasn't that they weren't great characters, the Doctor especially.  It's just that they became unable to write decent episodes for any of the other characters after about Season 5.  Dating one of the showrunners certainly didn't hurt 7 of 9 (Borg implants and all) from getting lots of episodes.  By the end, either of them could pretty much run the ship by themselves (and each did at least once).

In 7 years, Harry never got promoted, and only had some romance once that I recall, catching perhaps only the 2nd reported STD in Trek history.  Many of the other characters got hardly any development at all.

Also, after DS9 muddied the morality and ethics of the Trek universe, Voyager was more often timid and PC.  Somehow, Chakotay's hallucination-inducing device is OK, but more traditional methods are not?  Also, the show de-fanged the Borg, making them all subject to the Queen (rather than the identity-consuming group mind they were in TNG).  No longer was the entire race focused on assimilation, making genocide the only potential solution; they were simply unwilling participants in the Queen's plans, and removing her could solve all their problems.

Voyager had some great episodes, but the plot gaps, lack of character development, and large number of bad episodes make it the worst of the (TOS-TNG-DS9-Voyager) Trek.


----------



## Kanegrundar (Apr 21, 2005)

Here's my list:

Top 5:
1. X-Files: I didn't really like the show all that much after Mulder and then Scully left, but the early seasons were excellent.

2. Babylon 5: FINALLY!  I space show done perfectly!

3. V: It freaked me out as a kid.  

4. Stargate SG1: I watched the first season on Showtime and then lost track of it.  Now I'm thoroughly enjoying it again on Sci-Fi.

5. Millenium: I miss this show a lot.  It was a very dark and depressing show (probably a big reason why it failed), but the stories and characters were top notch. 

Runners Up: Quantum Leap, Space Rangers, and Farscape.


Worst 5 (in no real order)
Star Trek TNG: I hated this show.  There are only a couple of episodes that I liked, and the rest were crap, IMO.  Boring stories, boring characters, and uninspired aliens.

Star Trek DS9: Same problem as TNG.

Andromeda: Just plain dull.

Earth Final Contact: Another horribly dull show.

Battlestar Galactica (the new series): The original was OK, but it wasn't great.  Now here's the new series and they start off by changing the sex of one of the primary characters?!?!  Even with that annoying aspect, I gave it a chance, but sadly it was as uninspired as 99% of the made for Sci-Fi channel movies.

Kane


----------



## frandelgearslip (Apr 21, 2005)

Best:
1. Babylon 5 --definately the best science fiction I have seen.  The fifth season was not the best, but thats because everything got shuffled with the almost cancelation at the end of the fourth season.  I mean there was so many moments that rank among my favorite all time moments from kosh's death (both the good version and the later evil version) to vir waving at whats his face's severed head on a pike after promising a couple seasons before that he would do that very thing.
2.  Adventures of brisco county jr. Yeah I know but this is from my childhood and is the first television show that I watched that had actual real contiuntity and I am a sucker for continuity.
3.  Star trek ds9 -- The best of the treks, in fact the only one that I ever really liked.  Also the only one that didn't drown the viewers in a pile of technobabble.  Plus Garik was one of my favorite characters of all time.  Plus the only trek with continuity (did I mention I love continuity).  Plus sisko would kick the ass of picard, kirk, janeway and scott bakula's character  all put together in a heartbeat.
4.  firefly -- had great promise.
5.  I forgot this at first mystery science theater 3000.  Excellent show, techinically science fiction, plus lots of the movies were science fiction.  I thought the cut scenes in between the movie were some of the korniest crap ever but there reviews of movies are awesome
note:  Buffy/Angel is fantasy so I didn't list them otherwise 1. angel, 2. buffy, 3. babylon 5...

Worst:
1.  Star trek voyager:  I despise this show with all my heart.  nuff said.  (Oh and also those one aliens that were given a number designation were such ripoffs of babylon 5.)  Hell I could do a thread of just the top 100 reasons I hated the show, but I won't since the show has few defenders.
2.  earth final conflict -- the first season was okay and the premise was great (ie. the classic benovalent aliens come down to save humanity from themselves, but turn out to be evil)  But through its five seasons the shows quality decreased exponentially ( and it wasn't great to begin with)
3.  Alias -- I watched the first two seasons, but the show has the same bad quality that I have as a dm.  I get excited about new ideas too easily and if I let myself I'll rewrite my campaign world every other month.  Alias does this every half season.
4.  Farscape -- John crichton, especially in the early seasons, is an awesome character, but I don't know how many episodes one can have where some portion of the crew goes insane or turns evil.  Farscape seemed to think that every other episode was a nice balance.
5.  Dark angel -- Show sucked, jessica Alba hot, you know what thats enough to redeem it in my book, so strike it from my list.
New number 5 -- Battle star Galactica any version old, 1980, new, super ultra new whatever, there is about 100 other shows that deserved to be remade than this pile of garbage.


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## SuperGamera (Apr 21, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> *,)
> 3.  Stargate: SG-1.  I'm sorry, I know a lot of people like this show, but the more I watch it, the more I consider it crap.  The production design is fantastic, but the scripts and characters are garbage.  How on Earth I'm supposed to believe that the fate of the world rests in the hands of Jack O'Neill I will never understand.  And that's only the beginning of the hokiness the audience is expected to swallow.
> *



*

MacGuyver saving the world from all manner of alien threats make as much sense as Starfleet having no effective Special Forces, and constantly sending command crew on "secret missions".

SG-1 is not high art by any means, nor does it aspire to be.  It knows it's popcorn sci-fi, and isn't afraid to make fun of itself.  But as far as current sci-fi shows go, it's probably the most family-friendly one out there, and has one of the highest female viewership rates of any sci-fi show.  None of these factors would probably have mattered much to me when I was younger, but with a wife and boy, it is the sci-fi show we probably get the most group enjoyment from.  The other current sci-fi/fantasy shows my wife and I watch (BSG, Lost and Carnivale) are not shows you can easily watch with your early teen child.  SG-1 is probably the best "entry sci-fi" show in some time.*


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## mojo1701 (Apr 22, 2005)

SuperGamera said:
			
		

> MacGuyver saving the world from all manner of alien threats make as much sense as Starfleet having no effective Special Forces, and constantly sending command crew on "secret missions".




They fixed that in season 3 of Enterprise. The MACOs? I loved the tension between Lt. Reed and Major Hayes.


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## Lord Pendragon (Apr 22, 2005)

SuperGamera said:
			
		

> MacGuyver saving the world from all manner of alien threats make as much sense as Starfleet having no effective Special Forces, and constantly sending command crew on "secret missions".



MacGyver saving the world from all manner of alien threats I could buy into.  Col. O'Neil is another matter.  He's a complete idiot, who needs technobabble explained to him--sometimes repeatedly--that even I, an English Major who hasn't taken an advanced science class in his life--can easily understand.  He's a bad tactician, a bad leader, and a moron.  And he's in charge of the most important combat/diplomatic special ops team in history?  Riiiight.

As far as Trek and Special Ops teams, I'd always thought they did have them, but that the command crew of the Enterprise, being officers on the Federation Flagship, where simply more qualified for many of the "secret missions" than those SpecOps teams.  Most of the crew were believable experts and command officers, as well as away team members.  Sure, you'd have the SpecOps guys do most of the secret missions, but for some of the particularly important ones (the ones, coincidentally, that got episodes ), you go to the best.

The only one I can remember that broke credibiity for me was Dianna Troi posing as a Romulan Tal'Shiar, but then Dianna Troi was a problem character from the beginning...







> SG-1 is not high art by any means, nor does it aspire to be.  It knows it's popcorn sci-fi, and isn't afraid to make fun of itself.  But as far as current sci-fi shows go, it's probably the most family-friendly one out there, and has one of the highest female viewership rates of any sci-fi show.  None of these factors would probably have mattered much to me when I was younger, but with a wife and boy, it is the sci-fi show we probably get the most group enjoyment from.  The other current sci-fi/fantasy shows my wife and I watch (BSG, Lost and Carnivale) are not shows you can easily watch with your early teen child.  SG-1 is probably the best "entry sci-fi" show in some time.



The fact that it's family friendly doesn't make it good sci-fi, though.  It makes it family-friendly sci-fi.  _Full House_ was family friendly too, but that doesn't mean it was a good comedy.

Now _The Incredibles_ is both family friendly, _and_ a good movie.  My contention is that while it may be family friendly and great "entry level" sci-fi for young viewers, SG-1 is still bad sci-fi.  Obviously, YMMV.


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## Silver Moon (Apr 22, 2005)

Best:

*1.  Star Trek * - TOS: Set a standard.  Sure, you can nitpick about a lot of it but the episodes are still great fun to watch.   Way ahead of its time.   

*2.  Twilight Zone* (Original) - Wonderful anthology series.  A delight to watch. 

*3.  Star Trek: DS9 * - A masterpiece.

*4.  Quark* -  Quirky 1978 space satire brought to you by Mel Brooks and Buck Henry.  Didn't last long but was a lot of fun.   Galaxy Quest fans would enjoy it.   

*5. My Life and Times * - Only ran for six episodes back in 1991 but I really enjoyed it.  The premise was a man in a 2030's nursing home reflecting back upon key events of his life to his grandson.   

Worst:

*1.  Galactica 1980 * -  Any show that depends upon Jerry Van Dyke exploring earth on a motorcycle has nowhere to go but down.   And Cousin Oliver as the brains behind the missions didn't help much either

*2.  Land of the Giants* - By far the weakest of Irwin Allen's quartet of consecutive 1960's sci-fi series.    Bad acting and bad special effects.  Most episode used the exact same plot (try to hide from giant people, get seen, get chased, get caught, escape). 

*3.  The Lost Saucer * - Mid-70's Saturday morning live action show starring Jim Nabors and Ruth Buzzi as aliens stuck on earth wearing costumes similar to today's Teletubbies.  

*4.  Space 1999 * - Very bad show all the way around.  Bad premise, bad acting, even crappy miniatures (they had the toy model company make them for sale as a show tie-in and then used the same kits for the show).

*5.  Cleopatra 2525 * - Everything about this show came off like a weak attempt to just recycle anything leftover from Xena/Hercules.


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## Villano (Apr 22, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> The only one I can remember that broke credibiity for me was Dianna Troi posing as a Romulan Tal'Shiar




Well, in that episode, she was kidnapped and forced to do it.

The one that bugs me is when Dr. Crusher had to solve the murder of the Ferengi scientist.  The whole plot revolved around her suddenly becoming a "metaphasic field" (or somesuch) expert.  For one episode, she's incredibly interested in engineering and attends a conference on the subject.  She's also such an expert that she's the only one that can see worth in the Ferengi's theories.  What the hell?

To me, it looks like they had a Geordi script lying around and rewrote it to Crusher, possibly because LeVar Burton wasn't available (he's conspicuously absent during the episode).  She's Chief Engineer for a day.  It was just a horrible idea.


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## Lord Pendragon (Apr 22, 2005)

Villano said:
			
		

> Well, in that episode, she was kidnapped and forced to do it.



Right.  But if you wanted that plan to succeed, it just strikes me that Dianna Troi is the _last_ person you want to put in that job.  Kidnapee or willing participant.

[edit to add] Though you're right in that the fact she was kidnapped makes the episode irrelevent in regards to Federation special ops.







> The one that bugs me is when Dr. Crusher had to solve the murder of the Ferengi scientist.  <snip>
> To me, it looks like they had a Geordi script lying around and rewrote it to Crusher, possibly because LeVar Burton wasn't available (he's conspicuous absent during the episode).  She's Chief Engineer for a day.  It was just a horrible idea.



Heh.  I remember that episode and thinking something similar.  Though I didn't put together the missing LeVar with a a possible re-write of the episode.

[edit to add] This example doesn't really speak to special ops either, (though like mine, it does break credibility).

Now I need to try and think of some of the TNG episodes which did indeed involve crew members performing special ops.  The Picard torture episode comes to mind.  Possibly the one where Riker is posing as an alien on a pre-First Contact world...


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## Raging Epistaxis (Apr 22, 2005)

PhoenixDarkDirk said:
			
		

> Wow.  Am I the only one here who likes Roswell?



No.  I watched it fairly regularly and mostly enjoyed it too.  But then again, I have been told that I am one of the least critical people around...

Ranking:
1 - *B5* - Hands down my favorite space Sci-Fi -
2 - *Stargate SG-1* Suspend disbelief and enjoy the ride. 
3 - *ST:TNG* - High points and low, but generally good stuff. 

Rising Fast: *Firefly* - I could swear I had never heard of this show before my father-in-law got us the DVD set of the first(only?) season for Christmas.  I've only watched the first episode so far but... wow.  It might have given B5 a run for it's money if it had survived.

Honorable mention or Currently running: *Battlestar Galactica*, * Stargate: Atlantis*, *ST: Enterprise*(So much promise wasted.  At this point it's kinda like a car sliding towards a brick wall.  I know what's going to happen but I find myself compelled to watch anyway...)

I never got much into ST: TOS or Voyager - although I'd like to borrow the DS9 DVDs some day and watch them all.  What little I saw of the show when it aired I liked. Terri Farrell (sp?)  ... :drool: I had a major crush on her for the first season or so.

Trying to forget about:  So many shows since the late 70's.  How many wasted hours of my life will I never get back.

Can't say I've ever absolutely hated any show - I just don't watch it if I don't like it.


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## Pants (Apr 22, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> Now I need to try and think of some of the TNG episodes which did indeed involve crew members performing special ops.  The Picard torture episode comes to mind.  Possibly the one where Riker is posing as an alien on a pre-First Contact world...



Hrm.

The two-parter where Picard and Data look for Spock on the Romulan Homeworld.

The episode where Riker goes undercover on an alien world and gets put into an 'asylum.'


I can't think of any others, but the Picard Torture episode is classic.


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## Villano (Apr 22, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> Now I need to try and think of some of the TNG episodes which did indeed involve crew members performing special ops.  The Picard torture episode comes to mind.  Possibly the one where Riker is posing as an alien on a pre-First Contact world...




What about Ensign Ro going undercover as a member of the Maquis?  Or the 2-parter where Picard infiltrates a gang of, um, pirates, I guess, as "Galen"?  I can't remember the details, but Riker ends up pretending to go rogue and the device the pirates were after was some kind of ancient Vulcan telepathic weapon.


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## Hypersmurf (Apr 22, 2005)

Kelleris said:
			
		

> Now I'm going to see you in a weird barbarian hat every time I read one of your posts (for some reason, my dominant memory of those New Zealand shows).




Hmm... don't have a hat photo (though I did, indeed, wear plenty!), but will this do?







-Hyp.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Apr 22, 2005)

...my image of the Rules Smurf is forever changed...


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## Kelleris (Apr 22, 2005)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> ...my image of the Rules Smurf is forever changed...




Truly, I have only myself to blame.

I gotta ask, though, were there ever some kind of warriors for one of the goddesses (Hera?  Aphrodite?  Eris?) that wore sort of leathery helmets that left their face visible but covered the rest of their head like a weird armory-headdress?

Okay, that's probably too odd a question to answer.  But I can't think about _Hercules_ or _Xena_ without getting a flash of those helmets...


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## jasper (Apr 22, 2005)

worst not mention yet
Jason of Star Command.  Even the addition of Scotty in the second season did not help.


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## Thanee (Apr 22, 2005)

Nice job with the make-up there. Your blue skin isn't showing through... 

Bye
Thanee


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## mhacdebhandia (Apr 27, 2005)

I like _Firefly_, I like _Star Trek: The Next Generation_. I like _Star Trek: Deep Space Nine_, and I like what I've seen of _Stargate: SG1_.

I don't care for much else. I dislike what I've seen of _Babylon 5_ and _Farscape_.


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## billd91 (Apr 27, 2005)

Ant said:
			
		

> I notice that the two people who rated Red Dwarf in their Top 5 Worst are American.  Seeing as my brain can not comprehend someone not liking the antics of the crew of the Small Rouge One can I put this down to the eternal American/British humour conflict?
> 
> Otherwise I'm very, very confused.




Nope. As someone raised on PBS, I can assure you that I'm well acquainted with British humor spaning 5 decades. I've tried to like Red Dwarf, but it's just not in me. I'd rather toss Black Adder into the DVD player


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## kenc (Apr 29, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> MacGyver saving the world from all manner of alien threats I could buy into.  Col. O'Neil is another matter.  He's a complete idiot, who needs technobabble explained to him--sometimes repeatedly--that even I, an English Major who hasn't taken an advanced science class in his life--can easily understand.  He's a bad tactician, a bad leader, and a moron.  And he's in charge of the most important combat/diplomatic special ops team in history?  Riiiight.




Lord Pendragon, 

Maybe you should give SG1 another chance, if you really believe O'Neil is like you describe you have missed, completly, some of the more subtle aspects of his personality and abbilities. He is not an idiot ( it is a clasic ploy, his enemies dismiss him out of hand to their chargrin). He does not need technobabble explaned to him I think he just likes to have Sam close by and the best way to do that is to have her explain things over and over, heck I would keep Amanda close too  

Ok I am not an English Major so do not rip my grammer, spelling or use of words  

Do give it another chance.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Apr 30, 2005)

Ant said:
			
		

> I notice that the two people who rated Red Dwarf in their Top 5 Worst are American.  Seeing as my brain can not comprehend someone not liking the antics of the crew of the Small Rouge One can I put this down to the eternal American/British humour conflict?
> 
> Otherwise I'm very, very confused.




Doubtful.  Blackadder and Monty Python are my PVR's 'record whenever you find them' list.  Rowan Atkinson may be the second funniest man to ever live, after Cleese.  Love H2G2 in all it's incarnations.  It just takes more than a wierd accent for me to find it funny (although it helps)


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## Lord Pendragon (May 3, 2005)

kenc said:
			
		

> Lord Pendragon,
> 
> Maybe you should give SG1 another chance, if you really believe O'Neil is like you describe you have missed, completly, some of the more subtle aspects of his personality and abbilities. He is not an idiot ( it is a clasic ploy, his enemies dismiss him out of hand to their chargrin). He does not need technobabble explaned to him I think he just likes to have Sam close by and the best way to do that is to have her explain things over and over, heck I would keep Amanda close too



I respectfully disagree with everything you've said above.  Analyzing character, subtle aspects of personality, etc., is what English Majors _do_.   He _is_ an idiot.  Note that he is an idiot regardless of whether he's speaking with his enemies, or safe within the SGC.  He _does_ need to have the technobabble explained to him multiple times, and it has nothing to do with Sam.  There are plenty of scenes where the individual providing the re-babbling is Daniel, or Thor, or some random scientist, although Sam is certainly the most common culprit.

I had this discussion with a friend once, who is a staunch lover of the show.  In the end he admitted that all my gripes about the show were true, but that he enjoyed the adventure of the show, the production design, the humor, and the characters--however implausible.  I can respect that.  We each of us value different aspects of a story or TV show in our own way.  Not everyone values a cohesive and intelligent plot as highly as I do.  Not everyone is as bothered by silly, exaggerated characters as I am.

In contrast, some folks enjoy a sense of adventure, despite all these things.  Some folks appreciate slapstick humor, in spite of these things.  And yes, some folks prefer Dumb and Dumber over Memento


> Do give it another chance.



The sad thing is, I've seen quite a number of SG-1 episodes.  I've been living with my dad the last two years due to illness, and he likes SG-1, so I'd say I've seen a good two seasons' worth of episodes.  I've given it all the chance it's going to get.


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## Brakkart (May 3, 2005)

*Best*

*Babylon 5* - Excellent plot arc, scripts, acting and SFX. What every show should aspire to equal. Got every show on VHS, now getting the DVD's.
*Firefly* - Completely different take on the future, great instantly likeable and recognisable characters. Very refreshing.
*Battlestar Galactica 2.0* - Didn't think it would work, boy am I happy to be proved wrong!
*X-Men Evolution* - Superb storytelling, just criminal that this series got cut short like it did.
*Lost* - Completely gripping storytelling, and it makes me think, which is always good.

*Worst*

*Star Trek* - Any of them except for DS9 (and even that had more than its fair share of rubbish episodes). 
*Andromeda* - *shudders*
*Farscape* -aka Muppets in Space... whoever came up with this show should be dragged out into the street and shot!
*Space 1999* - More like Space $19.99 as that had to be the budget per episode. Just awful!
*The X-Files* - The best example there is of a show trying to stretch a small amount of plot out for as long as it can.


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## D+1 (May 4, 2005)

Best

X Files
Star Trek (TOS)
Star Trek (TNG)
Red Dwarf

Can't really nominate anything else as I either did NOT consider it really great SF or simply haven't seen them.  E.g., Babylon 5 falls into the latter category.  I'd probably really enjoy the hell out of it, but while it was on I never saw more than a few minutes of even a single episode.  After missing most of the first season I just decided not to try playing catch-up.

Worst

X Files - For the same reasons that someone else put it on both best and worst lists.  The last few seasons of the show it absolutely failed to do a bloody thing worth watching.  Asking question after question, piling mystery on mystery, wrapping riddles in enigmas in conundrums and never giving you a thread that actually starts to unravel anything or answer any questions... and the single most disappointing, lame, useless series ender that they could possibly have invented if they'd actually tried.
Buck Rogers - Oh, God!  The Seventies!  The SEVENTIES!
Transformers

I'll think up some more and file a report tomorrow...


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## Qlippoth (May 5, 2005)

D+1 said:
			
		

> Worst
> ...
> Buck Rogers - Oh, God!  The Seventies!  The SEVENTIES!
> .



I painfully recall an episode where the height of court entertainment included the 25th century's ultimate art form: Roller disco with silky sashes.


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## Testament (May 5, 2005)

*BEST* in no particular order.

Battlestar Galactica:  New series, I've never seen the original.  Amazing, gritty, intelligent and intense sci-fi.  This is war, and the crew of the Galactica are flying by the seat of their pants in some great stories.  I'll never forgive them for having Boomer be a Cylon though, she's too cute to be a cyborg!

The X-Files:  The hell with the metaplot, the individual episodes were top-notch, often slyly humorous sci-fi/thriller/horror stories.  And Mulder and Scully made a great duo.

Stargate SG-1:  Its not intellectual, or ground-breaking, but dear god its fun!  I love sitting back and enjoying another ripping adventure story about the team.  Would be even better if they knew when to keep someone dead (I'm looking at YOU Apophis!).

Robotech/Super Dimensional Fortress Macross:  Wow.  This series shaped my childhood and started my long love affair with anime.  Main characters die, the heroes get thrashed regularly.  All the wastefulness and horror of war captured in a fantastic space opera epic.

Neon Genesis Evangelion:  Can it really be called sci-fi?  Sure, all the trappings are there, but at the end of the day its a spiritual and psychological human drama.  The lives of the children and those around them are steadily ripped apart and put together only to be smashed again.  One of the only shows to really emotionally move me on a regular basis.  I'll never forget hurling the TV guide at the screen and shouting "HE'S NOT WORTH IT!" during "Tear".

Red Dwarf:  Oh smeg.  No rhyme or reason to it, but any show that features this kind of stupidity and hillarity has to get my vote.  And how can you not love Kryten and The Cat?

I'll now confess that I've never seen Babylon 5.  On my list of things to do at the end of the year.

*WORST*, in no particular order.

The X Files: I said forget the metaplot, but when it drags a great show into the toilet like this one did, it's hard to do so.  After the movie it just kept getting worse and worse until it bore no resemblance to its origins.

Star Trek Voyager:  Way to ruin all the potential that you had with the original concept guys!

Mutant X:  Just typing it make me want to wash my hands.  Nothing good about it, bad scripting, no plot, lame characters...

Star Trek Deep Space 9:  More like Deep Sleep 9.  I watched the entire first series WAITING for something interesting to happen.  Gave up, I might give it another try some time considering how long ago it was, and how much praise its gotten here.


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## Ahnehnois (May 5, 2005)

Even the most ardent Deep Space Nine fan admits that the series took a while to get going, and had its share of dud episodes. But when it's good, DS9 is still as good as any science fiction show ever.


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## Pants (May 5, 2005)

Ahnehnois said:
			
		

> Even the most ardent Deep Space Nine fan admits that the series took a while to get going, and had its share of dud episodes. But when it's good, DS9 is still as good as any science fiction show ever.



Indeed.
I'll happily admit that the show had some episodes that I really didn't care for, but man, did it have some good ones too.


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## Storm Raven (May 5, 2005)

Brakkart said:
			
		

> *Farscape* -aka Muppets in Space... whoever came up with this show should be dragged out into the street and shot!




If that's your assessment, then I can only conclude you never actually watched any of the episodes.

In any event, my top 5:

1. Babylon 5.
2. Farscape.
3. Stargate: SG 1
4. Blake's 7
5. Dr. Who

Honorable mentions to Star Trek: TOS and SG: Atlantis, for being fun

My worst 5:

1. Space 1999
2. Battlestar Galactica - the old one or the new one
3. Star Trek: Voyager
4. Star Trek: Deep Space 9
5. Andromeda

Dishonorable mantion to Star Trek: TNG, for seeming to have half of its episodes revolve around spatial anomolies and holodeck malfunctions.


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## Storm Raven (May 5, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> MacGyver saving the world from all manner of alien threats I could buy into.  Col. O'Neil is another matter.  He's a complete idiot, who needs technobabble explained to him--sometimes repeatedly--that even I, an English Major who hasn't taken an advanced science class in his life--can easily understand.  He's a bad tactician, a bad leader, and a moron.  And he's in charge of the most important combat/diplomatic special ops team in history?  Riiiight.




O'Neil asks questions for story purposes - it gives Daniel or Carter the opportunity to explain what is going on to the audience. Someone has to be that character, and there isn't really anyone else on the SG1 team who it could be.


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## Orius (May 8, 2005)

Lord Pendragon said:
			
		

> He _is_ an idiot.  Note that he is an idiot regardless of whether he's speaking with his enemies, or safe within the SGC.  He _does_ need to have the technobabble explained to him multiple times, and it has nothing to do with Sam.  There are plenty of scenes where the individual providing the re-babbling is Daniel, or Thor, or some random scientist, although Sam is certainly the most common culprit.




That is the most irritating aspect of the show, though I can usually overlook it.  It's very hard to reconcile his overflippant jocularity with the rather grim O'Neil from the film.  I blame it on the fact the RDA is one of the producers, and that he wants to have fun with the role.  This is why, if I were producing a show, I would never *ever* let any of the leads sit in a producer's chair.  However, nothing he does on Stargate is as egregious as Kevin Sorbo.


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## Rackhir (May 8, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> That is the most irritating aspect of the show, though I can usually overlook it.  It's very hard to reconcile his overflippant jocularity with the rather grim O'Neil from the film.  I blame it on the fact the RDA is one of the producers, and that he wants to have fun with the role.  This is why, if I were producing a show, I would never *ever* let any of the leads sit in a producer's chair.  However, nothing he does on Stargate is as egregious as Kevin Sorbo.




I really think you have to consider the movie separately from the series, while they pretended that they were in the same timeline, it was something very different than what the series became. 

My general impression of RDA is that he has if anything minimized O'Neil's importance. I don't think he's used the show to be an ego trip for himself.


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## Orius (May 8, 2005)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> My general impression of RDA is that he has if anything minimized O'Neil's importance. I don't think he's used the show to be an ego trip for himself.




Thus the Sorbo comparison I made.  RDA makes O'Neil very silly at times but not to the point where the show becomes nearly unwatchable.  The same cannot be said of what happened to Andromeda.


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