# What's Your Favorite System for Star Wars



## Reynard (Nov 30, 2019)

Maybe it's one of the officially licensed RPGs. Maybe it is another sci fi RPG, or a generic system. Maybe it's a game of a different genre altogether that just works for you. It could even be a homebrew. It might even depend on the mode and era of play.

Whatever it is, tell me what your preferred game system is for adventures set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. And why.

Thanks.


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## Giltonio_Santos (Nov 30, 2019)

Star Wars Saga Edition. In fact, it's probably my favorite d20 system iteration. I wish more had been done with it.


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## Jd Smith1 (Dec 1, 2019)

I plan to use 5e.


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## Larnievc (Dec 1, 2019)

SAGA was really good. I made a decent fist of balancing Jedi. Obviously it failed at that particular issue but it was great if you didn’t have Jedi.


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## Umbran (Dec 1, 2019)

I have not played all the various iterations.  But, I had a lot of fun with Star Wars Saga Edition.

Though, to be honest, if a decent GM said they were running a Star Wars game, and invited me to play, I'd not really care which system they were using.  The best system is one you get to play.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 1, 2019)

Larnievc said:


> SAGA was really good. I made a decent fist of balancing Jedi. Obviously it failed at that particular issue but it was great if you didn’t have Jedi.



Honestly our mundanes never felt overshadowed by Jedi in SWSE. 

Well, maybe once the Force Unleashed sourcebook came out. 

But if they had put out “battlefield maneuvers” in the same way they had force powers and starship maneuvers, giving mundanes some tools to do more rad stuff in a fight, even that imbalance would have been pretty well invisible for us.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 1, 2019)

Honestly I think I’d rather make some changes to SWSE than try to port it over to a different system like 5e or use the old d20, or FFG’s weird attempt, or the somewhat cumbersome d6 version.


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## aramis erak (Dec 1, 2019)

Reynard said:


> Maybe it's one of the officially licensed RPGs. Maybe it is another sci fi RPG, or a generic system. Maybe it's a game of a different genre altogether that just works for you. It could even be a homebrew. It might even depend on the mode and era of play.
> 
> Whatever it is, tell me what your preferred game system is for adventures set a long time ago in a galaxy far, far away. And why.
> 
> Thanks.



Depends upon several factors...

Oneshots? Short runs, no Jedi? WEG 2E. Easier to teach than E

Campaigns with jedi-only or mixed force non-force? Full FFG (EotE+AoR+F&D) 

No force users, dark times: WEG 2E but adding "Keep 5d" to all the roll codes Caps the needed difficulties, and noting that the wild die has to be kept to be open ended...

Old Republic era? FFG.

I hated the d20 1E and 2E, and never bothered with Saga.

Of the universal systems I've got...

I've outgrown GURPS, and it would be a piss poor match anyway.
Hero System is too complicated for non-fans to easily grasp, and I prefer it for fantasy, not sci-fi nor supers.
EABA is pretty close to the d6 system, but keep 3, and no bonus dice for PC attributes. (I playtested 1E). It's a bit too gritty for star wars, but I could see running it for certain no-jedi styles. The difficulty scale 
CORPS is entirely too deadly, the paranormal powers are too narrow to make jedi affordable.
Savage Worlds: I have it, but haven't run it. Star Wars is a setting I think might work well, but I already know WEG and FFG, and they do what I want out of a game for star wars...
World of Darkness: entirely the wrong feel, IMO
Non-universal, genre based:

Traveller: in addition to "which flavor" issues, None feel right to me.
Space Opera (FGU): I've run it, and were it not overtaken with complexity, the general level of "clearly inspired by Star Wars, Star Trek, and BSG" is quite high...
Spacemaster: too lethal. Too much player-facing math.


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## pemerton (Dec 1, 2019)

aramis erak said:


> Of the universal systems I've got



I've read but never played Fate core. It seems like it might do Star Wars.

I feel like Cortex+ should be able to, too, but the version I know is MHRP/Heroic and I'm not sure it's quite the right fit.



aramis erak said:


> Traveller: in addition to "which flavor" issues, None feel right to me.



I've been running Classic Traveller quite a bit over the past couple of years. A great system (in my view) but nothing like Star Wars in feel. Both system and implied setting are too gritty.


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## Blackrat (Dec 1, 2019)

I add my voice for SAGA. It was the d20 system that 4e should have been. I really love the system itself, I just got bored with SW eventually. And yeah, as said, the Jedi don’t overshadow others in saga.


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## JeffB (Dec 1, 2019)

FFG-hands down

Also enjoy
WhiteStar
Star Worlds-Mos Eisley Playset (Dungeon World hack)
WEG 1st edition

I never allow Jedi as I'm one of those crotchety old bass-turds that  would prefer to deny anything was filmed/ written post -OT (Return is under heavy scrutiny as well)

In fact my next run is to be a "what if?"  the original movie tanked and there was nothing else ever made/written post the 77 release.


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## Jacob Lewis (Dec 1, 2019)

Gosh, it feels like I just answered this question recently. Or maybe it's my normal response to a lot of similar questions. From the top, then. Shall we?

Star Wars RPG by Fantasy Flight Games is not only my game of choice for running (or playing) any Star Wars adventure, it is also my RPG of choice. Period. I am particularly fond of the Edge of the Empire theme, but I am already looking ahead at campaigns using Age of Rebellion, Force and Destiny, and perhaps a more classic campaign using all three. At this point, I am pretty much set with Star Wars games for the rest of my life!

The narrative dice system is pure genius. Elegant. Intuitive. Easy to learn, but requires practice and dedication to master. The good news is you learn by playing. But it's not just GMs who take advantage of the narrative creativity inspired by the innovative mechanics. Players are encouraged to collaborate and contribute into the narrative, making this a more cooperative storytelling experience than most other systems would allow. This is a critical feature of what makes the game unique, bringing the cinematic and storytelling aspects to the forefront of the game as opposed to a heavy stricture to rules, combat, and crunchy bits.

I have never cared for the idea of a Star Wars game using a system (d20) that focuses heavily on combat, powers, and leveling. It is an anathema to the core ideas of what Star Wars is about. Above all, it is about the Hope which drives ordinary people struggling against horrific odds, and how Fear hastens the rise of power towards its own inevitable downfall. It just never feels right to me.

If I ever decide to run other games, I know that I will take much of what I learned from this system with me. I now refer to running D&D games as "easy mode". Even as a player, combat has become a boring chore and the least interesting part of those games for me. Hit or miss? Next! Snore...

Last night, however, one of my players decided to GM for the first time. He ran a one-shot for the group who wanted to do an all-Mando game. He did well, and we had fun. He now wants to extend the one-shot further and pick it up again in a few months. Until then, we will resume our normal campaign as the group is ready to go Beyond the Rim in search of an old Separatist treasure ship with half the galaxy seemingly gunning for them. It's been an interesting ride so far. And more trouble lies ahead, as well as some interesting surprises in the future!


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## Deset Gled (Dec 1, 2019)

WEG d6 may not have been the best system for playing Star Wars, per se.  But the sourcebooks (mostly 2e) were hands down the best place for hard and well flushed out information on the expanded universe. No system I've seen since has ever come close to the amount of pure information housed in those books.


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## GreyLord (Dec 1, 2019)

WEG 1e is my favorite (yeah, I'm old school).

I really really really want to love FFG's system...but I don't.  I love the ideas behind it, but the way you need special dice (FFG's money grab) and the way those dice are accounted for to be in  your advancements almost necessitating a special type of character sheet if you want to advance...yeah...those among others are some big turnoffs...

I'd WANT FFG's system to be my second favorite...but then, on top of that above...you need THREE (yes, three) massive books JUST to get character classes and the force all together for one system (so a player needs 3 books, not just one PHB).

I really want to list FFG's SW system as my second favorite, but because of those and other things...I'm going to say...it's not...

And join the chorus praising SW Saga edition as it would thus by default be my second favorite system for SW (over WEG 2e even).


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## DND_Reborn (Dec 1, 2019)

SWSE was my favorite, although I had a lot of fun with WEG 1e back in the day. SWSE is my favorite d20 system as well, and I wished they has used it for a base for later D&D. The Vitality/Wounds systems is great and I think the force powers system would be a good basis for the Psion in 5E D&D.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 1, 2019)

HERO, for me.  But I have to agree 100% with:


Umbran said:


> Though, to be honest, if a decent GM said they were running a Star Wars game, and invited me to play, I'd not really care which system they were using.


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## aramis erak (Dec 1, 2019)

pemerton said:


> I've read but never played Fate core. It seems like it might do Star Wars.



Fate Accelerated seems a better fit. While I've got both, I don't even think about using them for non-bespoke mods.



> I feel like Cortex+ should be able to, too, but the version I know is MHRP/Heroic and I'm not sure it's quite the right fit.



LEt's see...

MHRP: 
roll: Affiliation + Power + Distinction + Skill* + Item* + OppComplication* + Opp Damage
Damage: 3 tracks

Firefly: 
roll: Attribute + Skill* + Distinction + Item* + OppComplication*
Damage: kills unless plot point, whereupon it generates a new condition or steps an extant one

Leverage: 
roll: Attribute + Role + Distinction + Asset* + Item* + OppComplication*
Damage: Complications only

Smallville: 
Ability + Relationship + Distinction + Item* + OppComplication*
Damage: 5 stress tracks


Firefly has the right skillset... but the damage is on-hit-one-kill (Plot-point to convert to condition)
MHRP has the right damage mechanic, IMO.


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## Leatherhead (Dec 1, 2019)

I really like SWSE.

But I have to admit I don't see the point in playing a Star Wars game if there isn't any Jedi in it.


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## pemerton (Dec 1, 2019)

aramis erak said:


> MHRP has the right damage mechanic, IMO.



Agreed - especially because you can turn to the Dark Side by adding your emotional stress to your pool!

I think it's affiliation dice also probably work OK. But I don't think power sets quite work.


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## Umbran (Dec 1, 2019)

As for Fate... I think, yeah, you could do Star Wars with it.  

But, The Force is laid out for us in the canon as fairly... systematic.  Lots of people able to do pretty much the same things.  And that works well in the canon.  But while Fate can do magic powers okay, it isn't really built to do magic _systems_.


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## innerdude (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm actually somewhat looking for information in this same vein myself.

At some point in the next year, I'm going to run a Star Wars campaign, but am debating between one of three systems to use: Savage Worlds, FFG SW/Genesys, or WEG d6 2e.

I have a very good grasp of how Savage Worlds would work, except for the Jedi-related material. Without the Jedi influence, it would be a very good system out of the box to replicate a "Solo: A Star Wars Story" feel, with lots of high action + intrigue. Creating the Jedi material would mostly be tweaking the arcane background information and setting limits on powers + power improvements, and finding some appropriate "Dark Side / Light Side" mechanic that would work with the setting.

But even though I'm comfortable with Savage Worlds and generally enjoy running the system, I'd rather push the group toward the FFG/Genesys system. I already own the core Genesys book + 3 sets of dice. I'd need to add an extra d6 for the Force power and use a conversion chart, but that would only be applicable in a handful of situations. For force use / Jedi-based stuff, I'd pick up Force and Destiny as a supplement.

The only reason I'm not strongly advocating for this is that I already sprung Dungeon World on them last year as a new system and it did NOT go well, plus our current GM switched from Savage Worlds to GURPS, and it's also not going well. I think there would be some resistance to trying yet another different system, when everyone knows Savage Worlds very well and enjoys playing it.

The WEG d6 option is mostly there because it would be a chance to try something "old school," and I think I'd enjoy it even if it was only temporary, but I've heard that the power curve for PCs breaks the game pretty rapidly, especially for Jedi characters.


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## Tun Kai Poh (Dec 2, 2019)

Speaking as someone who's played WEG, Saga Edition and Edge of the Empire...

Scum and Villainy (the Blades in the Dark-derived space opera game). WEG a close second.

I like the simplicity of using d6s, and I like the core mechanics of both.


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## Arnwolf666 (Dec 2, 2019)

WEG 2nd edition. Captures the feel of the movies better than any. Followed by the d20 Star Wars. Saga Star Wars was very good, very playable.


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## Tun Kai Poh (Dec 2, 2019)

Arnwolf666 said:


> WEG 2nd edition. Captures the feel of the movies better than any. Followed by the d20 Star Wars. Saga Star Wars was very good, very playable.



Saga...might not fit the feel of the films for me, but as a system it felt like the right level of compromise between D&D 3.5 and 4th. 4th Edition (which I also liked) might have appealed to more people if it had been more like Saga.


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## billd91 (Dec 2, 2019)

I never played the WEG version. I did play both d20 editions, Saga Edition, and I've played Fantasy Flight's Star Wars RPGs. I really liked both Saga Edition and the Fantasy Flight versions and would recommend from any of them. Fantasy Flight's games have the advantage of being still available in stores, if that's an issue.


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## Ancalagon (Dec 2, 2019)

Has anyone tried this home brewed 5e star wars?









						r/sw5e
					

r/sw5e: For discussion and submission regarding Star Wars in the Dungeons and Dragons Fifth Edition ruleset.




					www.reddit.com


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## aramis erak (Dec 2, 2019)

Umbran said:


> As for Fate... I think, yeah, you could do Star Wars with it.
> 
> But, The Force is laid out for us in the canon as fairly... systematic.  Lots of people able to do pretty much the same things.  And that works well in the canon.  But while Fate can do magic powers okay, it isn't really built to do magic _systems_.



For fans of Fate, they can make it work...
Same is true of the true fans of just about any universal system.
The reason I think FAE is a better choice than, say, Fate Core, is because the force can be just another approach to use. After all, the uses of the force tend to be pretty "convenient" in the fiction. So, using the force to do it? Force approach, and an enabling "Jedi" or "Sith" aspect, and suitable narration...

No enabling aspect? it's limited to subtle uses.

It's quite doable... if everyone playing is on board with the setting limitations.

(which is pretty true of just about any generic engine or suitable genre-engine.)


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## aramis erak (Dec 2, 2019)

innerdude said:


> I'd need to add an extra d6 for the Force power and use a conversion chart, but that would only be applicable in a handful of situations. For force use / Jedi-based stuff, I'd pick up Force and Destiny as a supplement.



Force uses a d12, not a d6.  

And it sounds like you don't have Star Wars - the differences are in char gen, advancement, and paranormal abilities, plus the FFG-SW corebooks each have different thematic abilities. And they are profound differences. 

Porting in F&D powers is going to be simple even if you intend to use the Genesys char gen and advancement, but you'll need to understand the way the advancement trees work in SW vs Genesys.

Also, while the symbols on the dice are different in appearance, yes, indeed, they are the same names and distribution as on the SW dice.

The mechanics of play, however, are nearly identical, so there's not a lot to relearn, but there a few differences.


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## Umbran (Dec 2, 2019)

aramis erak said:


> For fans of Fate, they can make it work...
> Same is true of the true fans of just about any universal system.




Yes.  It could be done.  But "can" and "should" are not the same thing.  

I'm a "choose the right tool for the job" kind of guy.  I can, at need, use a hammer to drive a screw, sure.  I can make that work... but it does mean extra _work_, and the results might be functional, but not very pretty.  Why would I do that when I have several very efficient powered tools that do the job better, and with much less effort on my part?

Pure cussedness on my part is one answer.  Being super-enamored of my hammer is another.  But I don't know if those are really _good_ reasons to do it.  If you just like the challenge, sure, go ahead.



> The reason I think FAE is a better choice than, say, Fate Core, is because the force can be just another approach to use. After all, the uses of the force tend to be pretty "convenient" in the fiction. So, using the force to do it? Force approach, and an enabling "Jedi" or "Sith" aspect, and suitable narration...
> 
> No enabling aspect? it's limited to subtle uses.




I think you'd find some balance issues with that - the "Force User" enabling aspect is really easy to get, and has few down sides.  It becomes a catch-all that must be minded by the GM for overuse.


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## aramis erak (Dec 2, 2019)

Umbran said:


> I think you'd find some balance issues with that - the "Force User" enabling aspect is really easy to get, and has few down sides.  It becomes a catch-all that must be minded by the GM for overuse.



If you have a force training feat, you are readily compelled by the GM to adhere to your training.

With a group willingly selecting Fate Accelerated, the issue isn't likely to exist, as most Fate fans are willing to adhere to setting limits. 

And a Dark Side user can rapidly turn into a variation on body-horror, as the GM compels ever more gruesome fates for the character's enemies. The character turning into a puppet of the dark side.


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## Gradine (Dec 2, 2019)

I'm also curious about this; I'm torn between Star Wars D6 REUP and Star Wars Saga Edition. Only two of my players have D&D experience outside of 5e, and the majority of them have really only played in my own 5e campaigns.

I got tired of 3.X character building and I'm not a huge fan of 4e's math scaling (which is, in my understanding, what SWSE uses). I'm worried that both might be too fiddly for my players; which one is the simplest in actual play?


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## Retreater (Dec 2, 2019)

I've played WEG d6 Star Wars, Wizards' d20 version, thumbed through Saga, and now I've run some of the Fantasy Flight games. None of it seems to work quite right.


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## billd91 (Dec 2, 2019)

Gradine said:


> I got tired of 3.X character building and I'm not a huge fan of 4e's math scaling (which is, in my understanding, what SWSE uses). I'm worried that both might be too fiddly for my players; which one is the simplest in actual play?




I don't believe it's the exact same math scaling. Not all heroic classes have the same BAB advancement in SWSE, though they do all add their level to their defenses. So it's a bit more prototypical than 4e's version, but that's not necessarily a bad thing. It isn't really any harder than 3e in the math, but there are a lot of conditional-use talents scattered about. Everybody's got them, not just the Jedi (who has them *and* Force powers to worry about). So if that level of complexity is a barrier, then SWSE may not be the best fit.

If you do go the SWSE route, consider googling the SagaSheet 1.4.9 spreadsheet character builder. It's a BIG help.


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## Reynard (Dec 3, 2019)

I think I am going to go back to 1E, at least for the "the D&D DM needs a break this week" campaign I am going to run. It's clean, relatively light, and between d6holocron and The Rancor Pit there are lots of resources out there.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 4, 2019)

Tbh I really want to do a rebuild of SWSE that uses Bounded Accuracy. Storm Troopers shouldn’t stop being a threat at level10. 

Also, the classes almost work as is, but multiclassing is kabuki and awkward.


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## DrunkonDuty (Dec 5, 2019)

<chants> WEG d6, WEG d6!


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## Zardnaar (Dec 5, 2019)

I like D6 and SWSE

I have tried a mashup of SWSE and 5E ad hocing in BA. 

 Might ad hoc the swse weapon groups into D6. Example rifles, pistols, heavy weapons replacing blasters, powder etc.


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## cmad1977 (Dec 5, 2019)

DrunkonDuty said:


> WEG d6, WEG d6!




My favorite...
But I’d use FFG now.


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## Man in the Funny Hat (Dec 5, 2019)

WEG d6.

FFG's is a good system and I _don't mind it_ for SW, but I didn't think the gameplay had the FEEL of the SW universe like WEG's.


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## Weiley31 (Dec 5, 2019)

While I agree that FFGs making you shell out money for three whole books for what is pretty much "PHB split into sellable chunks" is stupid/money greed, I look at it this way.

If your story focuses STRICTLY on the Rebel Alliance, all ya need is the Age of the Rebellion books. If your strictly using Bounty Hunters, use Edge of The Empire. Clone Wars would be Force and Destiny+the appropriate Clone Wars books.

Basically the split book approach allows ya to focus on certain aspects of Star Wars you want or like. If ya want all aspects of The Saga, then yes the price is high.


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## JeffB (Dec 6, 2019)

Weiley31 said:


> While I agree that FFGs making you shell out money for three whole books for what is pretty much "PHB split into sellable chunks" is stupid/money greed, I look at it this way.
> 
> If your story focuses STRICTLY on the Rebel Alliance, all ya need is the Age of the Rebellion books. If your strictly using Bounty Hunters, use Edge of The Empire. Clone Wars would be Force and Destiny+the appropriate Clone Wars books.
> 
> Basically the split book approach allows ya to focus on certain aspects of Star Wars you want or like. If ya want all aspects of The Saga, then yes the price is high.




This is a great point. And one I agree with.

Since I don't run "Jedi Games" I don't need (or want) anything from F&D.  I can get by with AoR and EotE for everything I would ever want to do in a Star Wars game. And I can use that money from F&D  to pick up some adventure resources/supplements and more fun dice!  

FWIW I ran a whole campaign just using the AoR beginner box and the free adventure downloads/resources out there. Only cracked the AoR hardcover book for the adventure in it. Of course we used the pre-gens (even then,  there are enough pre-gens out there on the  intarwebz to satisfy most anyone as far as variety- and FFG is also easy to re-skin)


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## Weiley31 (Dec 6, 2019)

JeffB said:


> This is a great point. And one I agree with.
> 
> Since I don't run "Jedi Games" I don't need (or want) anything from F&D.  I can get by with AoR and EotE for everything I would ever want to do in a Star Wars game. And I can use that money from F&D  to pick up some adventure resources/supplements and more fun dice!
> 
> FWIW I ran a whole campaign just using the AoR beginner box and the free adventure downloads/resources out there. Only cracked the AoR hardcover book for the adventure in it. Of course we used the pre-gens (even then,  there are enough pre-gens out there on the  intarwebz to satisfy most anyone as far as variety- and FFG is also easy to re-skin)




The only fault I find in my logic is how one goes about with the bad guys in each of the books. If each book has their own "Monster Manuel" built in, then groovy. _Havent tried FFG Star Wars RPG yet, but I TOTALLY want to play an IG Series Droid Bounty Hunter who is named Scarecrow._


Oh forgot to mention, if your a Jedi, you also want the book that has the Jedi Shadow class in it as that book as the rules for customizing your own lightsaber. But if you don't play as Jedi, then yeah my thoughts still stand.


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## hawkeyefan (Dec 6, 2019)

I’ve played the old West End Games version and the Saga Edition. Both of those were fun, but definitely played differently. I remember Saga started to get a bit crazy with the splat book options. 



Tun Kai Poh said:


> Speaking as someone who's played WEG, Saga Edition and Edge of the Empire...
> 
> Scum and Villainy (the Blades in the Dark-derived space opera game). WEG a close second.
> 
> I like the simplicity of using d6s, and I like the core mechanics of both.




I think if I was going to run a Star Wars game, I’d use Scum and Villainy. The system is solid, and allows for some narrative freedom for the players which I think suits the setting.


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## jayoungr (Dec 6, 2019)

Happy to see so many people mentioning Saga Edition, and I vote for that as well.  I was under the impression that it was kind of the "forgotten" Star Wars game, since it's neither the New Hotness nor the Old School Favorite.  It certainly doesn't show up at cons much, alas.

And for those who say that it's imbalanced toward Jedi, it's fine as long as you don't allow Skill Focus: Use the Force at low levels.  That's what really skews the rolls.


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## Mallus (Dec 6, 2019)

I’ve never actually played a Star Wars RPG, despite owning the Saga edition core book. But because of The Mandalorian (and the start of a remedial Clone Wars binge), I’m also hearing the siren song of a campaign set a long time ago, etc.

But I kinda want to use a PbtA hack to do it - know of any good ones? Or maybe Fiasco, which is where all our games wind up eventuall.


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## aramis erak (Dec 7, 2019)

In re the three cores for FFG....
when one actually looks into the content of the non-core mechanical material, the overlap is well under 50%. 
That includes the opponents, the vehicles, the weapons, the creatures, and the races. 
The classes have zero overlap, but the specialties have around 1/3 overlap between Edge and Age.  (Class gives some starting skills, and in the case of the F&D ones, gives a rank of Force, with that rank's commensurate white die on force checks. Note that no additional classes are added in splatbooks prior to spring 2019). Now, the force powers in Age and Edge cores only have 30% overlap with each other, but those 5 are 5 of the 11 in the F&D core

The splatbooks do have more overlap... typically one specialty table and 1 of the races is in another line's core or splats. Very few vehicles have overlap, but there are many parallel ships/vehicles in the same roles.... 
... and a number differ only in trivial ways. The various YT SLF's are all pretty similar.

I will note that during the public beta, a number of us asked for a vehicle scale separate from the ship scale — much as WEG had in WEG 2E — but we were basically ignored.  The result? ground vehicles are hard to differentiate.

That is, without a doubt, my biggest gripe with the system. The 20% identical content of the corebooks? I have no issue, because the rest is in fact tailored to the specific subsetting. 

And... The Squad rules and the squadron rules work reasonably well. The minion rules are particularly good for the genre.  The force rules feel a really good fit to the Clone Wars cartoons, and encompass those and the prequel trilogy, but not so good for the OT - but the choices in Edge and Age, they are subtle enough for most of the OT and its commensurate EU materials.


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## practicalm (Dec 7, 2019)

I like the GURPS stuff I've seen for the Star Wars universe but I think the WEG RPG versions are the best.

Unless you want to break out Space Opera.  How's that for barely playable.


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## shakilahamed1997 (Dec 7, 2019)

*Coruscant *has always held a particular fascination for me. The reason has to do with one statistic: its population of one trillion people. The first Star Wars came out five years after the release of an influential book called The Limits to Growth (1972), which tried to estimate the human carrying capacity of Earth. At the time, the population of Earth was around 3.8 billion people. In 2017, 45 years later, we are at nearly double that number, and the world is still either on the brink of collapse or doing just fine, depending on who you ask.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 7, 2019)

shakilahamed1997 said:


> *Coruscant *has always held a particular fascination for me. The reason has to do with one statistic: its population of one trillion people. The first Star Wars came out five years after the release of an influential book called The Limits to Growth (1972), which tried to estimate the human carrying capacity of Earth. At the time, the population of Earth was around 3.8 billion people. In 2017, 45 years later, we are at nearly double that number, and the world is still either on the brink of collapse or doing just fine, depending on who you ask.



Considering we have enough food to feed more ppl than are currently livin, but we waste so much that folks are starvin...yeah I’d say both.


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## pemerton (Dec 8, 2019)

Mallus said:


> I kinda want to use a PbtA hack to do it - know of any good ones?



I think that's what Scum & Villainy is - a variant of BitD, which is itself a PtbA variant.


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## Doc_Klueless (Dec 8, 2019)

By far, my favorite system for Star Wars is the WEG 1e. But I must admit that it is probably because I got it for my birthday when it was just published and I have some serious nostalgia going on.

I did really like playing the FFG system with @Jacob Lewis . It's a fine replacement and I can see where if the GM is conversant with the system that it could really sing.


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## JeffB (Dec 8, 2019)

Mallus said:


> But I kinda want to use a PbtA hack to do it - know of any good ones?












						The Streets of Mos Eisley Playset – Version 2.1
					

A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away… It is the height of the galactic civil war and a dark time for the galaxy. The tension between the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance continues to es…




					sentientgames.wordpress.com


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## Ancalagon (Dec 8, 2019)

shakilahamed1997 said:


> *Coruscant *has always held a particular fascination for me. The reason has to do with one statistic: its population of one trillion people. The first Star Wars came out five years after the release of an influential book called The Limits to Growth (1972), which tried to estimate the human carrying capacity of Earth. At the time, the population of Earth was around 3.8 billion people. In 2017, 45 years later, we are at nearly double that number, and the world is still either on the brink of collapse or doing just fine, depending on who you ask.



As far as I know, the planet is dependent on constant food imports.


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## Ancalagon (Dec 8, 2019)

I'm going to throw something crazy out there:

Troika! would be a suitable system for a rules light version of star wars. You would need to create new backgrounds (a bit of work but not hard), force powers (very easy imo) and starship combat rules (the only real challenge imo) and voila!


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## Gradine (Dec 8, 2019)

What is there to recommend WEG d6 1e over newer editions like the free 2e REUP?


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## Doc_Klueless (Dec 9, 2019)

For me? Absolutely nothing. It is a lot smaller with fewer rules. I freely admit that I'm fueled primarily by nostalgia.


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## aramis erak (Dec 9, 2019)

Gradine said:


> What is there to recommend WEG d6 1e over newer editions like the free 2e REUP?




ignoring reup as it's pure IP theft...

There are essentially 5 official WEG subeditions 3 for 1E, 2 for 2E...

1E core only
1E + rules upgrade (changes hyperspace, alters defensive actions)
1E + Rules Companion (further alters defensive actions, allows haste actions to move your first action to the 0th action or -1st action rounds... also introduces limited selection of force powers by what your force skills are. Adds die-capping by scale.
2E core changes further the defenses, adds a movement attribute, adds an initiative roll. changes the way die-capping works. Scale is table based. Command and many-on-one table based.
2E Revised & Expanded: scaling now dice bonus, rather than dice capping. Adds an extra damage step (wounded has two boxes), 
d6 Space is a clear case of "was going to be 3E until we lost the license) - adding advantages and disadvantages, tweaking the initiative and the defensive actions a bit more.

2E has a more traditional initiative system; 1E doesn't.
2E has way more craft detailed, and 6 distinct scales; 1E has 2 in core.
2E has a huge raft of craft written up; 1E doesn't.
2E has the wild die, 1E doesn't.
2E limits how many force abilities one can use; 1E doesn't until the Rules Companion (and that uses the same limits as 2E.

The biggest difference is initiative.
Start of round, everyone is supposed to declare actions (not, of need, targets)...
Then, everyone rolls their first action, noting the penalty to all actions for the number of declared actions. These are not resolved simultaneously; highest goes first.
If anyone has second actions (very common), those get resolved in a second pass, reduced further if reactions took place to 1st actions.
If there are third actions (uncommon), a third resolution pass. Same for 4th, 5th, or even all the way to 10th to 12th, etc.  (I've had a player with 7d in blaster pop a force point to  stun out a squad or 8 stormtroopers... and shoot them all for 5 dice - he intentionally stayed in cover for first action.)
When all declared actions have been resolved, return to declaring actions.

The second biggest difference is scales.
1E has two scales in core, and no change in the rules upgrade.
Rules Companion adds 4 more, for the standard 6 of 2E... but dice over cap are read as 0.

Each subedition handles defense actions differently. Without digging into the books, I can't recall which does which.


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## Tun Kai Poh (Dec 9, 2019)

pemerton said:


> I think that's what Scum & Villainy is - a variant of BitD, which is itself a PtbA variant.



Although it's descended from PbtA, it's about as different as Call of Cthulhu is from its forefather D&D. It's still good, but it's a very different system.

If you want something recognizably Powered by the Apocalypse, maybe try the one JeffB recommended:



JeffB said:


> The Streets of Mos Eisley Playset – Version 2.1
> 
> 
> A long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away… It is the height of the galactic civil war and a dark time for the galaxy. The tension between the Galactic Empire and the Rebel Alliance continues to es…
> ...


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## Michael Silverbane (Dec 17, 2019)

I am a big fan of the WEG d6 Star Wars game. As a youth, I had a lot of hours of fun gaming with that system. It comes in a pretty close third, behind Star Wars Saga Edition, which I liked so much that I changed everything about it to make Space Saga, my own space fantasy heartbreaker.


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## BronzeDragon (Dec 17, 2019)

WEG in any of its incarnations.

It's the best system for a true Star Wars _feel_. SWD20, for example, is a good system, it just never actually feels like Star Wars. It slows down for combat and that is antithetical to SW.

I haven't played FFG yet, but I don't think it can do anything better than WEG.


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## Umbran (Dec 17, 2019)

Tun Kai Poh said:


> Although it's descended from PbtA, it's about as different as Call of Cthulhu is from its forefather D&D.




I dunno.  When I played a session of Scum and Villany, and we started going over the rules it was, "Oh, hey, this is a PbtA game.  Okay, that makes picking this up easy..."


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## Umbran (Dec 17, 2019)

BronzeDragon said:


> It's the best system for a true Star Wars _feel_. SWD20, for example, is a good system, it just never actually feels like Star Wars. It slows down for combat and that is antithetical to SW.




Weird.  Because I was always more satisfied with the speed of resolution in the d20 version than the d6.  

I mean, when your D6 pilot wants to drop a force point, and has to gather a bazillion d6, roll them, and then count out the results... this is not tense or quick.


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## BronzeDragon (Dec 17, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Weird.  Because I was always more satisfied with the speed of resolution in the d20 version than the d6.
> 
> I mean, when your D6 pilot wants to drop a force point, and has to gather a bazillion d6, roll them, and then count out the results... this is not tense or quick.




In more than 25 years of running WEG (and even playing a couple times) I've never encountered this issue.

I guess the guys I game(d) with were unusually good with addition. 

Speed of resolution was not the issue that slowed down D20 games. It was all the tactical positioning and planning that was kinda sorta encouraged by the system. I never needed to run battle mats with WEG, and yet SWD20 essentially required it.


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## Umbran (Dec 17, 2019)

BronzeDragon said:


> In more than 25 years of running WEG (and even playing a couple times) I've never encountered this issue.
> 
> I guess the guys I game(d) with were unusually good with addition.




Dude, with respect, reading one d20 is a heck of a lot faster than totalling up from 20plusD6.  Our pilot has a _lot_ of skill.



> Speed of resolution was not the issue that slowed down D20 games. It was all the tactical positioning and planning that was kinda sorta encouraged by the system. I never needed to run battle mats with WEG, and yet SWD20 essentially required it.




Ah.  We didn't find a need for battlemats for our d20 Star Wars.  So, between the two system, actual speed of resolution became the controlling factor.


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## BronzeDragon (Dec 17, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Dude, with respect, reading one d20 is a heck of a lot faster than totalling up from 20plusD6.  Our pilot has a _lot_ of skill.




Well, with respect, if he can't add up those numbers in a few seconds, your pilot may have bigger problems. Not to mention the fact that those huge rolls are not at all the norm, unless you are at the very end of a long campaign and your characters have specs at 10-15d.

The only character I've _played_ was a Coynite pilot, and I did occasionally roll a bunch of dice. It never slowed the game down at all.

In my experience, SWD20 incentivized players to come up with tactical positioning to take advantage of things like flanking opportunities, and so battlemats actually tended to be required. WEG combat always was more fluid in my tables. I only DMed one SWD20 campaign in all those years, and the group unanimously decided to go back to WEG.


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## billd91 (Dec 17, 2019)

Ancalagon said:


> As far as I know, the planet is dependent on constant food imports.




Don't rule out cannibalism. There's always room for cannibalism.


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## Umbran (Dec 17, 2019)

BronzeDragon said:


> Well, with respect, if he can't add up those numbers in a few seconds




With respect, when reading a d20 takes one second or less, a pause of a few seconds to do this addition is noticeable in pacing.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 18, 2019)

billd91 said:


> Don't rule out cannibalism. There's always room for cannibalism.



...which, perforce, makes more room.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 18, 2019)

Umbran said:


> Dude, with respect, reading one d20 is a heck of a lot faster than totalling up from 20plusD6.  Our pilot has a _lot_ of skill.
> 
> 
> 
> Ah.  We didn't find a need for battl upemats for our d20 Star Wars.  So, between the two system, actual speed of resolution became the controlling factor.




 I was really stingy with force points. Often that starting one is your only one. 

 There's also rules in D6 capping the D6s at 5D 6D is 5D+3, 7D becomes 5D+7. The d20 system is a lot quicker with the basic roll but you get heavy class, feat,  powers on top of that. 

. D6 does break down a bit with skilled characters but d20 also breaks down at higher level pick your poison. I like both usually go with d20 SWSE but we're looking at a few games of D6 over the holidays.


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## Jacob Lewis (Dec 19, 2019)

Speed of resolution is a feature? I guess that's true if the process of resolution itself is less interesting or engaging than the getting the actual results. Maybe that is why I find the narrative dice system (FFG) so much more appealing nowadays that it has greatly diminished my enthusiasm for the old binary resolution and numeric-based systems. With respect.

I can also see how someone who places greater value on the speed of resolution might also find a system like this to be less appealing without understanding how a more collaborative and thoughtful process for discovering a resolution is actually a major feature of the game itself. But that is the key difference between a story or narrative driven game and a skill level or combat driven one. As always, it's a matter of personal choice.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 19, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Speed of resolution is a feature? I guess that's true if the process of resolution itself is less interesting or engaging than the getting the actual results. Maybe that is why I find the narrative dice system (FFG) so much more appealing nowadays that it has greatly diminished my enthusiasm for the old binary resolution and numeric-based systems. With respect.
> 
> I can also see how someone who places greater value on the speed of resolution might also find a system like this to be less appealing without understanding how a more collaborative and thoughtful process for discovering a resolution is actually a major feature of the game itself. But that is the key difference between a story or narrative driven game and a skill level or combat driven one. As always, it's a matter of personal choice.




 I would try the new one out. The main reasons I haven't.

1. Gimmick dice.
2. Already have two Star Wars RPG.


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## Gradine (Dec 19, 2019)

Thinking of trying to run a short series of one-shots as rules-light as possible. Anyone have any luck with Lasers & Feelings? I know the Sabers & Senate hack exists, but I think even that might be too crunchy for what I'm looking for


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## Jacob Lewis (Dec 19, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> I would try the new one out. The main reasons I haven't.
> 
> 1. Gimmick dice.
> 2. Already have two Starv Wars RPG.



Strange to me when I hear gamers drawing a line at dice. It's not a gimmick if they work, but to each their own. Shame I cannot invite you for a demo game.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 19, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Speed of resolution is a feature? I guess that's true if the process of resolution itself is less interesting or engaging than the getting the actual results. Maybe that is why I find the narrative dice system (FFG) so much more appealing nowadays that it has greatly diminished my enthusiasm for the old binary resolution and numeric-based systems. With respect.
> 
> I can also see how someone who places greater value on the speed of resolution might also find a system like this to be less appealing *without understanding* how a more collaborative and thoughtful process for discovering a resolution is actually a major feature of the game itself. But that is the key difference between a story or narrative driven game and a skill level or combat driven one. As always, it's a matter of personal choice.



Those of us who don’t like the FFG dice system understand its purpose, and why others like it. We just don’t enjoy the gameplay that it creates. 

I don’t need the dice to decide what happens in the narrative, beyond success and failure. If there is going to be a drawback or mitigation on a success or failure, that’s a conversation between player and GM, usually a hard choice, or a “you can push trough to success, but there will be a consequence” sort of thing. 

Likewise, I don’t want to spend time discussing mechanics during play. That is time spent with my mind on the system rather than on what’s happening in the imagined world. 

All that being said I don’t find the difference between dice pools and single die resolution to be noticeable, much less problematic.


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## longisland (Dec 20, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Speed of resolution is a feature? I guess that's true if the process of resolution itself is less interesting or engaging than the getting the actual results. Maybe that is why I find the narrative dice system (FFG) so much more appealing nowadays that it has greatly diminished my enthusiasm for the old binary resolution and numeric-based systems. With respect.
> 
> I can also see how someone who places greater value on the speed of resolution might also find a system like this to be less appealing without understanding how a more collaborative and thoughtful process for discovering a resolution is actually a major feature of the game itself. But that is the key difference between a story or narrative driven game and a skill level or combat driven one. As always, it's a matter of personal choice.



FFG narrative dice system enables 18 different outcomes for one roll of the dice. It seems to me that it turns everything into a melodrama of complications. For when describing what the dice mean is more fun than deciding what you want your character to do. 

Personally Critical Success, Success, Failure, Critical Failure strikes me as good enough variation of outcome. With the emphasis being getting on with story progressing the plot. Not simply the plot of doing a single action.


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## JeffB (Dec 21, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> I would try the new one out. The main reasons I haven't.
> 
> 1. Gimmick dice.
> 2. Already have two Star Wars RPG.




I said the same thing a few years ago. I even posted a thread here that saw a lot of traffic and necro posts about why I should bother.

Finally buying the game and running it have just about been the most fun RPG experiences I have had in the past 10 years.


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## Darth Solo (Dec 22, 2019)

Late entry: Uncharted Worlds.

It's a PbtA game that covers a wide base of sci-fi gaming. 'The Force' would fall under the 'Magic' rules easily.


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## Ancalagon (Dec 22, 2019)

Gradine said:


> Thinking of trying to run a short series of one-shots as rules-light as possible. Anyone have any luck with Lasers & Feelings? I know the Sabers & Senate hack exists, but I think even that might be too crunchy for what I'm looking for



A project of mine is to do a Star Wars version of Troika!   ... but it won't be ready for some time.


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## Jacob Lewis (Dec 25, 2019)

doctorbadwolf said:


> Those of us who don’t like the FFG dice system understand its purpose, and why others like it. We just don’t enjoy the gameplay that it creates.



Granted. The system is not for everyone, nor is it intended to be. I personally enjoy that we have multiple systems available that offer different playing experiences for everyone. Otherwise, what's the point? 



> Likewise, I don’t want to spend time discussing mechanics during play. That is time spent with my mind on the system rather than on what’s happening in the imagined world.



And this is why I don't believe you do actually understand the purpose of the dice, or why "others" actually like it. We (i.e. my groups that I play with and run in my games) don't discuss the mechanics any more or less than any other system. The difference, however, is that the narrative is introduced _before_ the mechanics are involved, and then the mechanics produces more possibilities and discussions that go back into the ongoing narrative.



longisland said:


> FFG narrative dice system enables 18 different outcomes for one roll of the dice. It seems to me that it turns everything into a melodrama of complications. For when describing what the dice mean is more fun than deciding what you want your character to do.
> 
> Personally Critical Success, Success, Failure, Critical Failure strikes me as good enough variation of outcome. With the emphasis being getting on with story progressing the plot. Not simply the plot of doing a single action.



You're limiting yourself by keeping the same expectations you have for all the other game systems that do exactly what you described: generate a singular outcome for a singular action. That is neither plot, nor narrative, nor story. It does not convey any greater sense of drama, suspense, action, or humor. It is simply a test of whether your character succeeds at the moment of decision or action based on your choices as a person playing a game.

In the game you describe, your character attempts to appease the Hutt after botching a job for him as a favor to your employer. You roll a Diplomacy check, add whatever modifiers are baked in to your character sheet or at the DM's discretion, and you either do or do not.

In my game, the entertainer offers to perform for the Hutt to celebrate his small victory and his return to status despite losing his new mining facility to a bunch of murder-droids. It is a hard sell, but the character is good at telling people what they want to hear. But Hutt's are notoriously fickle and hard to deceive or persuade, so the difficulty is upgraded. Also, he is not happy that the group did not achieve all of their objectives, so the attempt has setbacks. But the group did bring back the workers and the credits the Hutt asked for in the first place, so boosts are also appropriate. Understanding all that goes into this process is as much a part of the roleplaying as figuring the dice itself.  Now here's the kicker:

The result generates not only a success, but a Triumph AND a Despair. We stopped to think about this for a moment, and then it quickly hits me. The Hutt is so taken with both the character's negotiation and offer to perform at the event, the Hutt forgives the group's failures but decides to make the zeltron his own personal entertainer! And that became a whole new session I had to improvise for the group to get their friend back.

If your system of choice works for you, that's great! Have fun with that. But don't assume that is the only way to play, or expect every system should give you the same kind of experience.


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## doctorbadwolf (Dec 25, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Granted. The system is not for everyone, nor is it intended to be. I personally enjoy that we have multiple systems available that offer different playing experiences for everyone. Otherwise, what's the point?
> 
> 
> And this is why I don't believe you do actually understand the purpose of the dice, or why "others" actually like it. We (i.e. my groups that I play with and run in my games) don't discuss the mechanics any more or less than any other system. The difference, however, is that the narrative is introduced _before_ the mechanics are involved, and then the mechanics produces more possibilities and discussions that go back into the ongoing narrative.
> ...



You just described talking about the mechanics.


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## Staffan (Dec 25, 2019)

Running the Age of Rebellion Beginner Game adventure and the web enhancement Operation Shadowpoint is the most fun I've had running a game ever. The FFG rules work great...

... until vehicles get involved. Then things get wonky, partially because all vehicles work on the same stat scale (from a speeder bike to the Death Star), which makes resolution within a relatively evenly matched band (e.g. two different starfighters) work poorly.

But I'd still take FFG over D6, and D6 over D20.


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## Jacob Lewis (Dec 25, 2019)

@Staffan Yeah, I tend to gloss over any vehicle stuff during play unless we can create an exciting or dramatic scene. After a couple of piloting checks and shots fired, I'll wrap it up with something definitive or interesting. Combat is the same way. No need to draw things out if it starts getting repetitive.


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## longisland (Dec 26, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> You're limiting yourself by keeping the same expectations you have for all the other game systems that do exactly what you described: generate a singular outcome for a singular action. That is neither plot, nor narrative, nor story. It does not convey any greater sense of drama, suspense, action, or humor. It is simply a test of whether your character succeeds at the moment of decision or action based on your choices as a person playing a game.
> 
> In the game you describe, your character attempts to appease the Hutt after botching a job for him as a favor to your employer. You roll a Diplomacy check, add whatever modifiers are baked in to your character sheet or at the DM's discretion, and you either do or do not.
> 
> ...



My limited understanding is that it is a game of having fun explaining a narrative around the dice results. Which is fun in part because the dice are unpredictable. The GM is not simply dictating the narrative based on the scenario they have, nor are the players simply deciding what to have their characters attempt to do. The narrative dice add a massive random element to narrative creation with both the players and GM getting to have fun creating narrative around what the dice say.  

In the game discounting multiples of the same die result there is a base of what?
1 Success
2 Success-Triumph
3 Success-Despair
4 Success-Triumph-Despair
5 Success-Advantage
6 Success-Advantage-Triumph
7 Success-Advantage-Despair
8 Success-Advantage-Triumph-Despair
9 Success-Threat
10 Success-Threat-Triumph
11 Success-Threat-Despair
12 Success-Threat-Triumph-Despair
13 Failure
14 Failure-Triumph
15 Failure-Despair
16 Failure-Triumph-Despair
17 Failure-Advantage
18 Failure-Advantage-Triumph
19 Failure-Advantage-Despair
20 Failure-Advantage-Triumph-Despair
21 Failure-Threat
22 Failure-Threat-Triumph
23 Failure-Threat-Despair
24 Failure-Threat-Triumph-Despair

All those possibilities and then there are all the results with cumulative dice for example a roll can come up with multiple threat or advantage. 

It is not like a old fashioned RPG. The players are not just roleplaying their characters, they do not just decide what their character's do from the perspective of their characters. Nor is the games master simply playing through a scenario reacting to what the player characters do and acting as rules arbiter. It is much more dynamic and unpredictable with everyone acting as story teller using a game system where that story is inherently more unpredictable than a old fashioned RPG. 

Some will embrace it and have far more fun than in a old fashioned RPG. Others will not. It is a matter of preferred style of play.


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## longisland (Dec 26, 2019)

A more valid criticism than the narrative dice style of play might be based on the question how easy is it be to play the 1977 Star Wars 1980 Empire Strikes Back and 1983 Return of the Jedi movie trilogy using FFG Star Wars RPG? It is after all a licenced RPG for roleplaying Star Wars.

This is not because I think the only thing to do is play the movie trilogy it is that the ability to emulate the movie trilogy well should be the starting point of the game's design. That people who buy Star Wars the RPG will probably want to play in the heroic style of the movies, with heroes and actions like those seen on screen. So that should be the minimum the game is capable of. From that starting capability the game then expands to the Star Wars Universe and its endless possibilities.

FFG Star Wars looks to me overly complex for the task. I am no fan of numerous careers and endless lists of talents and talent trees. Or needing to chose x talent to do things like get up as a type x action rather than a type y action. And the various rules from the effect of multiple successes to if equal to and less than or equal and more than is used are applied differently to different skills and actions which seems pointlessly complex and inconsistent.

To me it looks difficult to simply pick up and play the Star Wars movie trilogy as Luke, Leia, Han, Chewbacca, C3PO and R2D2. And characters do not look capable of being say Luke a boy farmer who saves the galaxy in the first movie and is a Jedi knight by the third film.

I am also unsure how heroic the characters are capable of being. Can starting characters achieve the heroic acts of daring do that the heroes of the movies do?

Then there are the woeful rules on space combat for a game based on movies where space dogfights are often part of the finale.

And the splitting of the game into so many books. To play the original movie trilogy you appear to need Edge of Empires for Han Solo and Chewbacca, Age of Rebellion for Leia and the Rebel Alliance vs Empire, and Force and Destiny for Luke, Obi-wan, Yoda, Darth Vader and the Emperor. And large sections are repeated in all three books as they are sold as stand alone games. Then there are all the splat books for the careers and the splitting up of details on alien species between the splat books.

Just buying the first core book Edge of Empires seems instead designed to play characters beginning on a career path of bounty hunter, smuggler, colonist, explorer, hired gun, technician. With the Star Wars Universe being a background detail. It seems more Firefly the RPG than Star Wars.

By contrast West End Games 1st Edition Star Wars RPG and Star Wars Sourcebook was clearly focused on emulating the style of the original movie trilogy, being all you needed to play, and having simple and easy rules. Although you did need the rules addendum quickly put out in the adventures to play it as the 1st edition rules on dodging were broken.


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## Jacob Lewis (Dec 28, 2019)

@longisland Speaking as someone who regularly demos the game for strangers, teaches new people how to play, and runs games and campaigns, I can assure you that no one has ever come to me after with the same concerns as you. But just to put your mind at ease:

The default timeline begins between the destruction of the first Death Star (episode IV) and the Battle of Hoth (episode V). Original trilogy.
The core mechanic works the same way for almost everything in the game, every time, which makes it simple, intuitive, and easy to learn.
You can absolutely play/emulate any character in films, books, games, etc. What makes you think you can't?
You can absolutely go from farm boy to Jedi, or any other paths you and your GM decide. What makes you think you can't?
"Narrative" means your results can be as heroic as you want to describe them to be.
Space combat needs only to move the plot or story forward. Otherwise, it's a tactical game. This is not a tactical game.
A lot of RPGs have lots of books. None (that I can think of) require you to buy all their books (or buy more than just the core one) to be able to play as intended.
Firefly doesn't have droids, rodians, X-wrings, the Force, and a bunch of other stuff. Both are great settings, but I think everyone can agree they are mutually exclusive.
I never had the opportunity to play WEG version, but I hear great things. Sorry to hear you needed an addendum to fix something that was "broken".
Incidentally, I hope to see people who are genuinely curious about the system when I demo the game at PAX South next month! You may not like it, but at least you can do more than just glance over it or read other people's comments to come up with your own opinions. Then again, no one has ever told me they didn't like it after playing, either.


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## Zardnaar (Dec 28, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> @longisland Speaking as someone who regularly demos the game for strangers, teaches new people how to play, and runs games and campaigns, I can assure you that no one has ever come to me after with the same concerns as you. But just to put your mind at ease:
> 
> The default timeline begins between the destruction of the first Death Star (episode IV) and the Battle of Hoth (episode V). Original trilogy.
> The core mechanic works the same way for almost everything in the game, every time, which makes it simple, intuitive, and easy to learn.
> ...




 I would play the system, it just money, time and already have 2 other SW games.


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## Crusadius (Dec 28, 2019)

I only have one "Star Wars" rpg at the moment - Scum and Villainy. So I guess that's my answer.


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## Guest 6801328 (Dec 28, 2019)

The one Francesco Nepitello hasn't designed (or maybe even thought about) yet.


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## Crusadius (Dec 28, 2019)

Elfcrusher said:


> The one Francesco Nepitello hasn't designed (or maybe even thought about) yet.




"The One Force"?


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## longisland (Dec 29, 2019)

Jacob Lewis said:


> @longisland Speaking as someone who regularly demos the game for strangers, teaches new people how to play, and runs games and campaigns, I can assure you that no one has ever come to me after with the same concerns as you. But just to put your mind at ease:
> 
> The default timeline begins between the destruction of the first Death Star (episode IV) and the Battle of Hoth (episode V). Original trilogy.
> The core mechanic works the same way for almost everything in the game, every time, which makes it simple, intuitive, and easy to learn.
> ...



What makes me think it is overly complex? Reading the rules for the first three skills tells me the rules work differently for different skills. Hence the need for each of the 33 skills to have a half to a whole page of rules. And just reading the rules for the first three talents likewise tells me they create various modifiers in various different ways at various different times. Hence the need for each of the 150 talents to have as short blurb of rules. If a character sheet had to contain all the rules for the skills and talents the character had I think it would be a booklet.

What makes me think it does not look capable of making the cast of the original trilogy. Reading the character generation rules I can't see how to create Princes Lea or Luke Skywalker using Edge of the Empire.

What makes me think characters might not be capable of the daring do seen in the original movie trilogy. The rules. Looking at combat characters are limited in the number and types of actions they can perform, and need various talents to do stuff, and there is a critical hit table. Its not written as free flowing do or try to do whatever you like. Nor do the rules look capable of handling starfighter dogfights or speeder bike chases which are iconic to the movies. I do not fancy starting player character chances eve against say half a dozen or so storm troopers despite in the movies the heroes repeatedly dodging blaster fire with seeming ease. Let alone Ewoks taking down AT-ST walkers or a farm boy in a lone starfighter destroying the Death Star by trusting the force.

Maybe you can educate me as to how to make Leia and Luke? Maybe you can explain how the system emulates various iconic action scenes of daring do in the movie trilogy? Because to me it does not look designed to do any of that. Edge of Empire looks to me designed to make characters starting a career path as bounty hunter, smuggler, colonist, explorer, hired gun or technician with the Star Wars Universe being a background detail. Not designed to create the stuff of legends in a science fiction fantasy of heroes triumphing against insurmountable odds against an evil Empire. A tale of princesses, magic and monsters as much if not more than spaceships, blasters and droids.


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## overgeeked (Dec 31, 2019)

I still prefer the old WEG Star Wars game. Still works mostly fine with a little house rules for OP Jedi. Otherwise a simple generic system like Fate works great.


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## vpuigdoller (Dec 31, 2019)

Haven't played FFG Star Wars but have d20, d20 revised, SAGA, D6 WEG original and revised.  My favorite is the original d6 with revised d6 close second. It grabs the feel of the original trilogy perfectly and is very easy to pick up and play. 

I also have very fond memories of some of the WEG adventures Tatooine Manhunt and Otherspace come specially to mind.


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## Stormonu (Dec 31, 2019)

WEG D6 forever.  I’ve played all of the other versions except FFG’s (whose presentation left me cold), and none of the others even come close to my enjoyment of the original SW version.


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## Gradine (Dec 31, 2019)

Are there any good hacks for D6 to make combat flow faster? The way attacking and dodging are separate actions feels like a bit of needless complexity.


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## aramis erak (Dec 31, 2019)

Gradine said:


> Are there any good hacks for D6 to make combat flow faster? The way attacking and dodging are separate actions feels like a bit of needless complexity.



Having run a bunch of d6 SW, editions 1, 2, and 2R... 

Basing this on 1E:
Remember: 

the round is comprised of segments, and no character takes more than one declared action per segment, and only one reaction per segment. Each segment in 1E is resolved in descending order of skill roll. In 2E, it's descending order of initiative.
reactions have to be declared BEFORE the attack is rolled. Remember that actions are declared at the start of the round, not the segment, PC and NPC alike, but the GM should restate NPCs targets at start of segment, so players can make the reactions if they wish.
ALL attackers in  the round overcome ONE dodge/parry roll, it's not separate per player.
Each rules upgrade/edition has changed the defense reactions rules slightly, but the above remains true in all 1e.

*No Reactions*
Eliminate reaction dodges/parries. Make it just another declared action, one that lasts from the segment taken until the end of the round. If you want to ensure your dodge works, it's your 1st pass action, but then, there's a strong possibility you might not get your second pass. If you make it second pass, you might not get to dodge, but you're going to shoot.

*Use the d6 Legends dice mechanic instead of the d6 standard* 
D6 Legends dice are count successes. 3-6 are successes; 6 on the wild die still succeeds. Difficulties divide by 5, then add 1, pips are ignored except for advancement and breaking ties on resolution order.  Modifiers of +2 to +6 are reduced to +1, +7 to +11 are +2 , +12 to +16 are +3, and so on. This reduces resolution times a lot, BUT, it also reduces granularity and swing. Note that the expectation of the die is 2/3 success per die, but the variability is relatively low; a more variable option is instead of 0/0/1/1/1/1, go to 0/0/0/1/1/2 (4-5=1s, 6=2s).


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## innerdude (Jan 9, 2020)

aramis erak said:


> Force uses a d12, not a d6.
> 
> And it sounds like you don't have Star Wars - the differences are in char gen, advancement, and paranormal abilities, plus the FFG-SW corebooks each have different thematic abilities. And they are profound differences.
> 
> ...




So I finally sat down with the group last night and used Edge of the Empire as the baseline "starting point" to get into FFG Star Wars. 

Even though I'm going to GM, I went through a character-building exercise myself just to get a feel for it. 

And after looking through the Star Wars talent trees, and comparing it to the more free-form "talent pyramid" setup in Genesys, in your opinion would it break the game if we took a more open approach and went with the Genesys character build option? In looking at the EotE talent trees, as long as you keep the talent costs equivalent to their tier, does it really matter if you allow people to unlock a talent without taking its supposed precursor?

Also, I've read multiple places now that vehicle and space combat in baseline EotE is kind of wonky. What are the best ways to fix that?


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## Widfara (Jan 9, 2020)

Bill Roper created a "Star Wars Traveller" rules set that, while by and for fans, is very well done.  We just started a campaign using the rules and I'm having a blast. 
I found the rules over at Happy Jacks.  Here is a link:





						Star Wars Traveller 2.0 | Happy Jacks RPG Podcast Forum
					

It's finally done. After close to 2 years of work, Star Wars Traveller (version 2.0) is completed and ready for




					happyjacks.proboards.com


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## aramis erak (Jan 10, 2020)

innerdude said:


> So I finally sat down with the group last night and used Edge of the Empire as the baseline "starting point" to get into FFG Star Wars.
> 
> Even though I'm going to GM, I went through a character-building exercise myself just to get a feel for it.
> 
> ...



Break it? kind of.... Many of the specialties are balanced by the restrictions on when you can get to X talent.  I can tell you that that absolutely is true for the various Smuggler splatbook trees. (You'll find me listed in playtesters on that, and on the Ace one for AoR.)

They are there to emulate the path these types of folk take... and all the really hot stuff is behind borders to slow access to the most powerful;  that barrier will disappear with the Genesys mode, and allow  much faster hyperspecialization, and reduce the (in SW) enforced breath of abilities.

Keep in mind also - a starting Star Wars character can often have 4 rank 5 talents at 150 XP... 75 for down the straight path to the rank 5s, then 75 to get the other three. But if that path has bends, many are more than 75 away.
Genesys, you have to have at least 75 points per rank 5... because you need another R1, R2, R3, and R4 ton allow that R5.

It won't hurt the game much, but it will "void the warranty" so to speak. It will no longer mechanically enforce certain tropes that the designers put in to emulate the feel.

If you do so on the force power trees, expect horribly OP force users. 

I've figured out that Anakin vs VSD? Yes, he can do it. He has to have at least 5 dice, and have boght the full power tree, and made one hell of a roll.... and it's quite obvious from his flop sweat that he used points of both light and dark...


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## innerdude (Jan 10, 2020)

aramis erak said:


> Keep in mind also - a starting Star Wars character can often have 4 rank 5 talents at 150 XP... 75 for down the straight path to the rank 5s, then 75 to get the other three. But if that path has bends, many are more than 75 away.
> 
> Genesys, you have to have at least 75 points per rank 5... because you need another R1, R2, R3, and R4 ton allow that R5.




Okay, so I think this answers another question I had --- the talent trees have to be purchased in order both VERTICALLY and HORIZONTALLY. 

Meaning, once I buy a 10-point, Tier 2 talent, I don't automatically get to "free float" horizontally anywhere along the Tier 2 path. I have to purchase the talents horizontally along the path in progression to reach my next "downward" path. Am I reading that right?


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## aramis erak (Jan 10, 2020)

innerdude said:


> Okay, so I think this answers another question I had --- the talent trees have to be purchased in order both VERTICALLY and HORIZONTALLY.
> 
> Meaning, once I buy a 10-point, Tier 2 talent, I don't automatically get to "free float" horizontally anywhere along the Tier 2 path. I have to purchase the talents horizontally along the path in progression to reach my next "downward" path. Am I reading that right?



Yes. Well, mostly.

Talent 1​Talent 2​Talent 3​Talent 4|​I​I​Talent 5​Talent 6​talent 7​talent 8|​|​I​|​Talent 9​—​talent 10​—​talent 11​—​talent 12​
To get talents 1-4, just pay the points. Talent 5 requires you have either talent 1 OR Talent 9
Talent 6 requires talent 10, 
Talent 7 requires talents 3 or 11.
Talent 8 requores 4 or 12.
10 requires 9 or 11
11 requires 10 or 7 or 12
12 requires 8 or 11
So... to get 6 fastest, either 1-5-9-10-6, or 3-7-11-10-6
Note that 2 isn't required at all for anything else. and to get 6 or anything on the 9 row or later, you have to go 1 & 5, OR 3 and 7, OR, 4 and 8..., and then maybe work across.


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## Geeknamese (Jan 10, 2020)

longisland said:


> What makes me think it is overly complex? Reading the rules for the first three skills tells me the rules work differently for different skills. Hence the need for each of the 33 skills to have a half to a whole page of rules. And just reading the rules for the first three talents likewise tells me they create various modifiers in various different ways at various different times. Hence the need for each of the 150 talents to have as short blurb of rules. If a character sheet had to contain all the rules for the skills and talents the character had I think it would be a booklet.
> 
> What makes me think it does not look capable of making the cast of the original trilogy. Reading the character generation rules I can't see how to create Princes Lea or Luke Skywalker using Edge of the Empire.
> 
> ...




Reading this, I can say with 100% certainty that you have not played the game yet. Leia is a Diplomat/Ambassador who picks up the Force Sensitive universal spec and then Commander/Figurehead as her third spec. Luke is an Explorer/Trader who picks up the Force Sensitive Spec, then Ace/Pilot spec and then ventures into the Force specs. And this all happens organically through the narrative. Like D&D’s multiclass except less gamey. Being that it’s a game that allows the players to contribute to the narrative and what happens in a scene, there are all kinds of ways to replicate the cinematic and heroics of the old movies. That’s what the Triumphs and Despairs are all about.

The biggest problem people admit to with this system is the narrative dice which literally just takes one session to get used to. The depth that they go into the skills for is because there is so much narrative freedom that they have to give players an idea of the scope of the skill. It’s not simple pass fail like D&D. I’ve introduced this game to a lot of people though local meetups and FLGSs. The first session is always the one that gets people hooked. It’s the same feeling when you go from a video game to D&D and realize how much freedom it is to be able to make whatever choice you want and affect the game world. FFG Narrative Dice System is the next evolution of that where you make choices and not only effect the game world but also take control of the shared narrative with the GM. It’s an improv player’s game. If you’re more wargamer than improv/RPer, this is probably not the game for you.


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## pemerton (Jan 11, 2020)

Geeknamese said:


> If you’re more wargamer than improv/RPer, this is probably not the game for you.



There's absolutely nothing in @longisland's posts that make me feel that s/he is a wargamer. If anything quite the opposite - the complaints that you quoted in your post are of _too much_ wargaming - especially in PC build elements - which gets in the way of play that might emulate the original Star Wars movies.


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## Doc_Klueless (Jan 11, 2020)

Geeknamese said:


> It’s an improv player’s game. If you’re more wargamer than improv/RPer, this is probably not the game for you.



I improv about 90% of whatever game I'm playing/running by having only an outline of the adventure and then pulling weird crap out depending on how the dice go and player input. I go entire sessions just RPing with no combat.

I found I had a hard time "improv-ing" with the results of the FFG SW dice. Plus, try as they might, those books just don't read smoothly TO ME. I really have to concentrate to absorb them. So please, don't paint with the "Ur just 2 much of a WArgaMer, hur." brush.


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## Fenris-77 (Jan 12, 2020)

WEG 1st edition. For the nostalgia, for the source books, for a lot of reasons.  I detest specialty dice, so FFG is out anyway. I just grabbed a copy of a homebrew Star Wars character burner for Burning Wheel that seems very promising, but I haven't really gotten into enough to vote for it.


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## Longspeak (Jan 14, 2020)

If I had to pick a published SW franchise, it's be WEG. 1e for a pickup game, fast and easy. 2E R&E for something long term.

But... if I had my pick among the world, I hacked Over the Edge years back and that's always served me well.  If i want more gamey, I hacked Dogs in the Vineyard - which doesn't need much - too. I've run both with success. The OTE hack would be my preference I think, for longer term play,


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## pemerton (Jan 14, 2020)

Longspeak said:


> If I had to pick a published SW franchise, it's be WEG. 1e for a pickup game, fast and easy. 2E R&E for something long term.
> 
> But... if I had my pick among the world, I hacked Over the Edge years back and that's always served me well.  If i want more gamey, I hacked Dogs in the Vineyard - which doesn't need much - too. I've run both with success. The OTE hack would be my preference I think, for longer term play,



More info on both of these, please, especially OtE.


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## aramis erak (Jan 14, 2020)

pemerton said:


> More info on both of these, please, especially OtE.



Here's my compare/contrast of the various WEG editions. I've not added the newest "D6 Space Opera" because I don't have it.








						d6 Star Wars and d6 Space Opera - A comparison in detail
					

A detailed comparison of the various rulesets for Star Wars as presented by [company=40]West End Games[/company], and their (now open source) [thing=88279][/thing]  Note that there are a lot of differences between various rules editions, but not all rules editions had core rulebooks published.  I'm




					rpggeek.com


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## pemerton (Jan 14, 2020)

aramis erak said:


> Here's my compare/contrast of the various WEG editions. I've not added the newest "D6 Space Opera" because I don't have it.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



I saw your post upthread, but I'm not that interested in the WEG versions. (Know of them, never played them.)

I was interested in @Longspeak's OtE and DitV variants. Both those systems are more my style.


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## Gradine (Jan 14, 2020)

For those who prefer 1st edition WEG versus later editions, has anyone houseruled any way to raise attribute points?


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## aramis erak (Jan 15, 2020)

Gradine said:


> For those who prefer 1st edition WEG versus later editions, has anyone houseruled any way to raise attribute points?



Long ago, before 2E, I required 10×(#d) XP and 1 FP, per pip.


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## Longspeak (Jan 15, 2020)

pemerton said:


> I was interested in @Longspeak's OtE and DitV variants. Both those systems are more my style.



I'll see if I can dig up the old docs, but here's what I recall...

For Over the Edge, I just wanted fast and easy rules. Nothing fancy in the hack. I used the core trait system. with a few bits I borrows from WEG. I permit a PC to have a central trait which describes a Jedi or similar, or a side trait that describes more limited force sensitiviy. Or neither if they wanna play a non Jedi.

I then added a Trait for Species or Origin. Instead of dice, this gave three keywords, which could be invoked in play once per session each for a free bonus die. To invoke it, you have to be doing something in the narrative that supports it. Like a Wookie might be "Strong" so a player could invoke that when doing something physical, but not when repairing a jammed comm circuit.

I refused to make standardized lists; I asked players to tell me their inspirations.

Then everyone gets a Force Pool and a Dark Side Pool. These work very similar to the 1e WEG. Force Pool lets you call on inner reserves for nice bonuses, and refreshes conditionally. Dark Side accumulates when anyone does anything evil, or when a Force User does anything which can be construed as giving in to their emotions. OR for _using the Dark Side Pool_. Usually a player gets a warning for behavior, a chance to restate the action. But not when using Dark Side in the action.

Any character could use their Dark Side Pool to get free dice. Any time. As often as they like. Go on... use them... _it's so easy_...

Every time your character gets a Dark Side point invokes a scene where you might turn. When you do, suddenly I'm killing your PC's friends while you make a new character. (In WEG it's a die roll. In this it's drama). The more points you have, the harder it is to resist. At 6 points, the scene is a mere formality to see how you turn, not if.


In Dogs, I wanted to explore the relationship to the Force and the lure of the Dark Side, so I got a little more in depth.

First, the backgrounds in Dogs determines what assortment of dice you have for Attributes, Traits, and Relationships. To this I added that some backgrounds were "Force-Using" backgrounds, indicating a Force-Using character. They got fewer attributes, more traits, and a few more relationship dice, in general, that their non-Force Using counterparts.

I renamed the attributes (I'm not at home, so I don't recall the exact names), and gave slight redefinitions. Nothing major here.

Traits worked the same, save that a Force-Using background needed to have at least one "I use the Force to..." Trait. You wanna be a Jedi? Probably most of your Trait dice go to traits like this.

Relationships also worked the same, save that everybody had a 1d6 relationship to The Force. You could spend dice here to change that, but the default is always there. Anyone with a Force-Using background would a_lways_ roll that trait in any conflict. Your relationship to the force is always at stake. Other characters could choose to roll it any time for the extra die.

Anytime a PCs relationship to the Force is at stake, your actions are under additional scrutiny. If you act with too much passion, or too evil, the Raise accrues immediate Fallout. I generally let a player know and give them a chance to redo. Players can also call it out if they see it.

If your Raise is called out as Dark, you immediately took fallout of two dice (of the same type as the current level of conflict). There's a separate table and there's no good result. The best result possible is "2-7: We'll let it slide... this time." Higher results would affect the number or type of dice in your Force Relationship, possibly damage other force traits (lowering die type or number of dice), add dice in a conflict the GM could use to complcate matters, and finally, potentially turn your character.

AND... that fallout total remains until to have a conflict to purge it. If you have further fallout, you add those dice to the previous total before consulting the table. You keep doing this until a successful conflict vs the generic obstable (4d6+4d10), but we also include all the Dark Fallout Rolls you've made since the last time you meditated.

This got complicated, but had some fun results.


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## slipshot762 (Jan 24, 2020)

Gradine said:


> Are there any good hacks for D6 to make combat flow faster? The way attacking and dodging are separate actions feels like a bit of needless complexity.



Hello. I find that one answer here can be found in the D6 Fantasy/Adventure/Space books that came later; the die-code simplification chart in the back of these books allow you to roll either 5D plus a number based on actual skill code or even 1D plus a number if you prefer.

Another option is one defensive roll that stands for the entire round or encounter vs that type of attack (ranged, melee, thrown etc) only re-rolling when something changes like being injured or moving more than a half-move or so.

Yet another option from (I think) D6 masterbook is to allow a static number for defense/resist = to 3 points per die, so 5D dodge becomes a static 15 for example.

As to parts of the game I've felt needed reworked badly, one was force mechanics. I for example always ruled a force point doesn't double dice pools but gives you the max you could have rolled (except wild die, still roll that).

I also made force powers be skills under perception which require a force point to activate, and made force points work like mana, your max being equal to the number of force skill dice or perception dice for non-force sensitives, allowing them to partially regenerate (1 per die of perception) between encounters. (a pre-statted jedi's total number of control-sense-alter dice would be re-assigned to his force skills under perception as increases above baseline attribute)

I also tossed most force-power activation rolls, just spend the point to telekines the can of vienna sausage off the table and into your hand, we only need a skill roll if you are levitating an  or pushing darth vaders chest buttons.

The D6 Fantasy/Adventure/Space method of strength damage die code being half of the attribute, coupled with the "hard mode" version of damage resist from the same books is also advisable to avoid bulletproof or chainsaw wookie problem that can pop up under 2e reup rules as written. (hard mode is there is no resist roll beyond armor or shields, one can buy dice with character points or must spend force point to roll normal strength/physique/vitality/whatever.)

Beyond that I always made shields skill and dice function like a parry roll, making shields very valuable and making "their shields are down!" a very climactic moment. Thus shields stop attacks and bolster resist if a shot penetrates until they go down. Suddenly even 1D in shields is not so anemic.
ETA: against ions do the same but don't add shield dice to resist damage, they are only counted for the parry portion.

I would also recommend putting a "frigate" and "dreadnought" step in the scale system below and above capitol, as well as merging starfighter/walker into the same scale step, but that is just my own preference/bias.

ETA#2: Stun damage, rather than used as written I always had it function like normal damage but be non-lethal, stuns and wounds results are stuns essentially, incap or better is non-lethal knock-out/shutdown. Unless I misremember you can only suffer a number of stuns equal to strength before being knocked out anyway.

ETA#3: Somewhere out there on the net is the "dueling blades" chart from an article in D6 magazine or a D6 pirates game or something, I also highly recommend using that chart for melee/jedi, better cinematic feel imho.


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## doctorbadwolf (Jan 25, 2020)

Honestly, next time I want a break from working on my own game, rather than homebrew more warlords or assassins or whatever, I think I’ll start working on a Saga.5e version of Saga Edition.

the conversions I’ve seen are too “5e with saga dressing” for me, and I’d rather see Saga with 5e improvements.

Insert BA, consolidate a lot of feats and talents, front load 1st level a bit more, decrease the endless prerequisites, and work out a chart for NPC numbers by CL. That’s...90% of what the system needs. The rest is tuning, “errata”, little bits of streamlining complexities that are needless vestiges of Revised Core Rules or overcorrections from them.

Class becomes nothing more than a starting package, at that point, which is how I want it.

Gah! Back burner! Too many pots, not enough spoons!


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## Manbearcat (Jan 25, 2020)

1a) Strike! with the Vehicles Supplement

1b) Scum and Villainy (Forged in the Dark hack)

Some overlap but very divergent where it counts.


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## atanakar (Feb 5, 2020)

After trying them all, I just bought the d6 WEG 30th edition reprint. I used to own it way back when. It's the edition I like best. SAGA is my prefered WoTC edition. Didn't like FFG's version. The icon dice ruin it for *me* and the background system interferes too much in the narrative for *my* taste.


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