# Heroes Season [Volume] 2 (#27)---10/15/07-'The Kindness of Strangers'



## Truth Seeker (Oct 15, 2007)

*The Kindness of Strangers​*
*Star*:  Noah Gray-Cabey (Micah Sanders),  Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman),  Hayden Panettiere (Claire Bennet),  Jack Coleman (Mr. Bennet / HRG),  Dana Davis (Monica Dawson),  Dania Ramirez (Maya Herrera),  Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder Suresh),  Milo Ventimiglia (Peter Petrelli)  
 

*Recurring Role*:  Adair Tishler (Molly Walker),  Cristine Rose (Angela Petrelli),  Shalim Ortiz (Alejandro Herrera),  Ashley Crow (Mrs. Bennett)   

*Guest Star*:  Nichelle Nichols (Nana),  Carlon Jeffrey (Damon Dawson)  

Monica starts to exhibit new abilities while working with Micah, Nana, and Dawson. Nana is the grandmother of Micah, Monica, and Dawson. They all currently reside in New Orleans. Matt asks Molly to locate the man in her dreams. He may be the newest threat to the Heroes. Maya and Alejandro continue their trek to the U.S. Both Claire and her father are suspicious of one another. Angela reveals a lot of her secrets.​


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## GoodKingJayIII (Oct 15, 2007)

> Both Claire and her father are suspicious of one another.




This line has me a little concerned.  They already did this last year.  And Claire was already exposed to HRG's bag-n-tag tendencies via Matt and Ted.  So... why is she surprised to meet someone else her father grabbed?

I know she's a teenager and she's got hormones and she really likes this guy... but moving in the direction of distrust seems really unnatural, especially after everything her father did for her last season.

I can understand why HRG is suspicious, after seeing the painting.  As for the rest, I'll just have to wait and see.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 15, 2007)

Claire's suspicion may well reflect what brought on her mother's: HRG _is_ acting suspiciously, and not telling Claire what he's up to.


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 16, 2007)

Wow, that picture is huge.  Any chance it could be shrunk down?

I had a thought about Peter.  We saw him phase through the ropes he was bound with.  That means he likely picked up DL's power.  DL probably didn't survive Kirby Plaza, per the last episode.  Which means Peter must have gotten his power there.  

Firstly, his range for picking up powers had improved significantly over the last half of the season.  I wonder if eventually Peter reaches a sort of deific status, where he just absorbs every power on Earth by being alive.  He could still be killed (Maya's power maybe, or a shard to the brain) but it becomes increasingly more difficult as Peter can basically do whatever he wants.

Secondly, and perhaps more importantly, it means he also picked up Molly's location ability.  Which means he could hunt down the big bad if he's so eeeeeevil and powerful, per Molly.  He has a good chance of knowing about it, since he was with Bennett.


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## DonTadow (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok i know I"m only 20 minutes in but this episode needs to do a lot to redeem itself in 40 minutes.  

I just don't buy those twins happen to find Sylar on the side of the road.  All the roads in MExico all the immigrants trying to get across the border and they run into each other. That is the lamest introductin ever.

Second, ok, why does this show seem to hate minorities.  The mexicans are runaways, DL is dead.  The black girl is an aspiring singer at a fast food restaurant whose only goal is to want to be manager at a fast food restaurant.  The black kid is ultra ghetto. We all do not act like that.  But this is the image.  I have a big problem when the kid with mixed heritage being the smarter, less ghetto of the two. Why can't the other kid be normal.  (because he has black parents?).  

Then there was the whole need money for pay per view stupid convo.  YOu have to order a pay per view either on the phone, internet or in person and last i checked none of them is taking cash from a 10 year old.  So even if he had the cash he couldn't order it.  65 bucks for a pay per view, boxing matches aren't even that price.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Oct 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Ok i know I"m only 20 minutes in but this episode needs to do a lot to redeem itself in 40 minutes.




Funny, I found this to be the best of the season so far. Not only that, but the first part of it was definitely good stuff.



> I just don't buy those twins happen to find Sylar on the side of the road.  All the roads in MExico all the immigrants trying to get across the border and they run into each other. That is the lamest introductin ever.




This is the kind of thing that's always happened in comics, and did happen in the first season of Heroes. Everyone kept crossing paths in the casino in Las Vegas last season, which was okay for certain characters, but Hiro/Ando being in the SAME one as everyone else is definitely contrived.

But, again, that's just how it works.



> Second, ok, why does this show seem to hate minorities.  The mexicans are runaways, DL is dead.  The black girl is an aspiring singer at a fast food restaurant whose only goal is to want to be manager at a fast food restaurant.  The black kid is ultra ghetto. We all do not act like that.  But this is the image.  I have a big problem when the kid with mixed heritage being the smarter, less ghetto of the two. Why can't the other kid be normal.  (because he has black parents?).




Technically, Maya and her brother aren't Mexican. But they're runaways for a reason. Her power KILLS people. DL died last season, or at least took the bullet wound that was pretty much going to kill him. Sad, because I LIKED DL, but hey.

The girl (something Dawson...can't remember her first name) has a goal to be a manager to make more money to help her family in New Orleans which is having serious trouble thanks to a certain hurricane. THAT seems pretty damned noble to me. She also wants to get back into school, etc. Its NOT just a stereotype...in fact, she looks like a character who could develop into one of the more interesting amongst the cast.

As for the kid. That's definitely an annoying stereotype there, but at the same time, a lot of kids do act like that.



> Then there was the whole need money for pay per view stupid convo.  YOu have to order a pay per view either on the phone, internet or in person and last i checked none of them is taking cash from a 10 year old.  So even if he had the cash he couldn't order it.  65 bucks for a pay per view, boxing matches aren't even that price.




I haven't used pay per view in...so many years it isn't funny, so this went right past me. At that same time, though, I could see something costing ungodly amounts of money for a little thing like wrestling.


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## dravot (Oct 16, 2007)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> The girl (something Dawson...can't remember her first name) has a goal to be a manager to make more money to help her family in New Orleans which is having serious trouble thanks to a certain hurricane. THAT seems pretty damned noble to me. She also wants to get back into school, etc. Its NOT just a stereotype...in fact, she looks like a character who could develop into one of the more interesting amongst the cast.




Her name was Monica, and it sounds like she had a pretty good handle on how to work herself into a better life when Katrina hit New Orleans, and now she's come up with a re-worked plan to do the same.

I'm mostly in agreement with DonTadow about the other issues, but for her Monica I'll disagree.


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## DonTadow (Oct 16, 2007)

So she's not good enough to go to school? move out of state? go to college? get a trade skill? Her only option is a fast food manager and she can't even get that. Sorry that's stereotypical and very offensive. It's even more offensive that peopel come off with the concept that she "sho is noble for tryin to be manager at mcdonalds".  I never expect other people to understand what its like to be a minority. Wheras you see "courageous" I see short sighted and low dream. 

In the first season there were common places they met, near LInderman's casino, near that appartment buildingm Isaac's studio. There was NEVER them just walking on some random street and meeting other heroes and then buddying with them. It made sense because everyone was drawn to Linderman, he connected most of the dots.  Same with the apartment.  

WAsn't sylar in the middle of no where last episode.  This is just absolutely lame.  This goes beyond the comic book meeting. This is just the writers being lazy and taking us for granted.  My wife and i let out a collective groan when we saw that it was Sylar on the road.  This was the worst scene and writing I've seen in Heroes so far. 

This episode revealed some things, asthey all do, but the pacefelt slow and its purpose was more to move along some of the stagnet plots instead of entertain.


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## Cor Azer (Oct 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Ok i know I"m only 20 minutes in but this episode needs to do a lot to redeem itself in 40 minutes.




I thought that was agreat episode myself... finally starting to answer some questions, but like a good serial, bringing up more.



			
				DonTadow said:
			
		

> I just don't buy those twins happen to find Sylar on the side of the road.  All the roads in MExico all the immigrants trying to get across the border and they run into each other. That is the lamest introductin ever.




Eh... based on comics, as said above. Not that big of a deal in my mind.



			
				DonTadow said:
			
		

> Second, ok, why does this show seem to hate minorities.  The mexicans are runaways, DL is dead.  The black girl is an aspiring singer at a fast food restaurant whose only goal is to want to be manager at a fast food restaurant.  The black kid is ultra ghetto. We all do not act like that.  But this is the image.  I have a big problem when the kid with mixed heritage being the smarter, less ghetto of the two. Why can't the other kid be normal.  (because he has black parents?).




And the Indian is the key to one of the solutions (the powers plague) for the season.  And the two Japanese are two of the funniest and most enthusiastic (this episode was only missing Hiro). All in all, considering most shows barely have even one member of any minority, I'd say Heroes is doing pretty good.



			
				DonTadow said:
			
		

> Then there was the whole need money for pay per view stupid convo.  YOu have to order a pay per view either on the phone, internet or in person and last i checked none of them is taking cash from a 10 year old.  So even if he had the cash he couldn't order it.  65 bucks for a pay per view, boxing matches aren't even that price.




You know that. I wasn't quite aware of it (but kind of figured it). I doubt my grandmother would know that. Are you so sure a 10 year old wuld know it - the price, probably. But the whole process? I doubt it.


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## dravot (Oct 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> So she's not good enough to go to school? move out of state? go to college? get a trade skill? Her only option is a fast food manager and she can't even get that. Sorry that's stereotypical and very offensive. It's even more offensive that people come off with the concept that she "sho is noble for tryin to be manager at mcdonalds".  I never expect other people to understand what its like to be a minority. Wheras you see "courageous" I see short sighted and low dream.




Urf?  I thought that becoming a manager would give her the money to go back to school.  Nothing ever said that she's not good enough to go to school.  As for moving out of state, she's the primary breadwinner for a family of 3 (now 4).   She needs to earn enough money for everyone to survive and pay for school.

Being a manager was a stepping stone to finishing college and starting a career.  It was never her ultimate goal.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Oct 16, 2007)

dravot said:
			
		

> Urf?  I thought that becoming a manager would give her the money to go back to school.  Nothing ever said that she's not good enough to go to school.  As for moving out of state, she's the primary breadwinner for a family of 3 (now 4).   She needs to earn enough money for everyone to survive and pay for school.
> 
> Being a manager was a stepping stone to finishing college and starting a career.  It was never her ultimate goal.



 Exactly.

She wanted to make manager to make more money to help support the family AND to be able to pay for school to get a career.

I'm sorry, but if that's offensive then...well, there's just no winning.


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## zen_hydra (Oct 16, 2007)

It was a good episode, I am just getting tired of the Nissan tie-ins.  They should change the name of the show to the *Nissan Rogue Power Hour!!!*


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> WAsn't sylar in the middle of no where last episode.  This is just absolutely lame.  This goes beyond the comic book meeting. This is just the writers being lazy and taking us for granted.  My wife and i let out a collective groan when we saw that it was Sylar on the road.  This was the worst scene and writing I've seen in Heroes so far.




In fairness to the writers - that was not their plan. The scripts called for a very different journey for Sylar in episodes 4-9 or so. He was supposed to be with Candice the whole time. However, the actress who played Candice, Missy Peregrym, was cast as a regular in Reaper and became unavailable after the scripts were written. So the writers had to rewrite Sylar's story.

And this is what we got.  Anything that gives the Maya and Alejando run, separate, cry - get back together schtick a rest is an improvement.

(I shudder to think of what the writers had planned for Maya and Alejandro if it wasn't Sylar).


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 16, 2007)

As for Monica Dawson...interesting power. So I presume that if Micah does his Mojo on the cable box and pulls up a MoviePix Bruce Lee film- fest, Monica is going to be kicking ass and taking names shortly enough.


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## Cor Azer (Oct 16, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> As for Monica Dawson...interesting power. So I presume that if Micah does his Mojo on the cable box and pulls up a MoviePix Bruce Lee film- fest, Monica is going to be kicking ass and taking names shortly enough.




Since they're re-using some powers this season, I wonder if Monica's power is the same as Charlie's memory power?


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 16, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Ok i know I"m only 20 minutes in but this episode needs to do a lot to redeem itself in 40 minutes.




The writers this year seem to be going for more cop-outs in general. The racial situation is just one of them. Matt getting divorced and adopting Molly are other cop-out, and so was Sylar being in Mexico. Though I think Monica was refused the promotion based on the work environment and company philosophy, not her competence. Still, with a bit of effort, they could have made the entire situation better.

I find myself wondering how the Company gets anything done, given their track record. They either want Sylar to kill their operatives and run free, or they are a bunch of nitwits.

I wonder how long Monica retains those skills. Maybe see needs to watch those science programs on cable.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 16, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I find myself wondering how the Company gets anything done, given their track record. They either want Sylar to kill their operatives and run free, or they are a bunch of nitwits.




I have a feeling that Linderman was the top dog in the company before he offed it last season.  right now, the company has it's middle management accountant ("Bob") running the show.  To me this explains the incompetence we are seeing.




> I wonder how long Monica retains those skills. Maybe see needs to watch those science programs on cable.



Here's a good question, what if she saw a Hero on cable tv?  Would she suddenly pick up his/her super power upon seeing it?


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## Grog (Oct 16, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> In fairness to the writers - that was not their plan. The scripts called for a very different journey for Sylar in episodes 4-9 or so. He was supposed to be with Candice the whole time. However, the actress who played Candice, Missy Peregrym, was cast as a regular in Reaper and became unavailable after the scripts were written. So the writers had to rewrite Sylar's story.



Why didn't they just recast her? If any role on the show could be recast, it'd be hers. Just explain it by saying she likes to change appearances from time to time. Easily believable for a character with the power of illusion, since we had no idea what she really looked like.

And count me as someone else who's super annoyed with the Claire-HRG not trusting each other storyline. Claire's known West for, what, a week? And suddenly she trusts him more than her father, after she found out everything he'd done for her? Sorry, I'm calling BS here.

And as for the racial issue, Heroes has probably the most racially diverse cast of any show on a major network today, so I think they should get points for that. Though I was really annoyed that DL, the black guy, died, while Matt Parkman took four bullets to the chest and survived, apparently none the worse for wear - come on.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 16, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> And as for the racial issue, Heroes has probably the most racially diverse cast of any show on a major network today, so I think they should get points for that. Though I was really annoyed that DL, the black guy, died, while Matt Parkman took four bullets to the chest and survived, apparently none the worse for wear - come on.




You have to remember, part of the reason why DL bit it was because Nikki wouldn't be as interesting if she had a stable family unit.  Her character seems to work best when she was living in a dysfunctional situation and sadly having a positive influence/role model like DL would have killed the viewer interest in Nikki's character (since she wouldn't be a milf fatal and would instead be just a milf).. that is in the opinion the show's producers.


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 16, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> You have to remember, part of the reason why DL bit it was because Nikki wouldn't be as interesting if she had a stable family unit.  Her character seems to work best when she was living in a dysfunctional situation and sadly to day having a positive influence/role model like DL would have killed the viewer interest in Nikki's character (since she wouldn't be a milf fatal and would instead be just a milf).. that is in the opinion the show's producers.




True. Moreover, as I expect we will find out next episode, DL did not die of a gunshot wound. He died of the "Hero virus" - and Nikki's got it now.


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## dravot (Oct 16, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> Since they're re-using some powers this season, I wonder if Monica's power is the same as Charlie's memory power?




I think it's a variant - only through TV.  Possibly she can break that out later, but only thru TV for the time being.


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## PhoenixDarkDirk (Oct 16, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> Since they're re-using some powers this season, I wonder if Monica's power is the same as Charlie's memory power?




I don't think it's quite the same. My interpretation is that Charlie was good at retaining knowledge, and that Monica quickly develops physical skills.

Here's a song about the show, http://www.thefump.com/fump.php?id=117.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 16, 2007)

Monica looks to have Marvel's Taskmaster: 

_"Taskmaster possesses an innate ability known as "photographic reflexes", which enable him to watch another person's physical movements and duplicate them without practice, no matter how complex. This ability is only limited by the fact that he does not have superhuman strength or other superhuman attributes. He is a naturally gifted athlete who has trained himself to superb physical condition." _ 

The question I have; did Mycah give her those powers when he hugged her and they showed his hand on her back! 

So, Nathan's reflection, is it or is it not...alive!


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## LightPhoenix (Oct 16, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> The question I have; did Mycah give her those powers when he hugged her and they showed his hand on her back!




Monica is a cyborg!!!    



			
				The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Matt getting divorced and adopting Molly are other cop-out, and so was Sylar being in Mexico.




I think they fully acknowledged it was a cop-out with Matt, since the whole wife storyline just wasn't interesting.  As Steel_Wind shared, Sylar was something of (from what I gather) a last minute re-write.  The original pilot for Reaper didn't even have MP in it, and given schedules I imagine they lost MP well after they started breaking stories, and maybe even filming.

As for my thoughts on the episode...

I disagree with people saying this is the best episode so far... that honor definitely goes to the premiere.  However, I do think it was the second best... which for reasons I'll explain is a dubious honor.

I liked Monica, and the actress has a ton more charisma than the Honduran Snooze Twins.  The only thing I didn't like is how she rolled over on the whole job situation.  Also, I'm betting her parents died somewhere during Katrina (hence the line about her losing more than most) and she had to go home to take care of them.  Micah is an added bonus, though he should know powers are genetic, so if DL had them, his cousins might too.

Matt and Mohinder as the bickering couple is hilarious.  Matt and Nathan as the team-up against the big bad is great - Nathan is the brains and Matt is the... impulse?  Also, I liked that Matt has more than daddy-issues to get him involved in the story.

Nathan seeing his children, nice touch.

No Peter, no Hiro, no Niki?  Wow.  Looks like we'll make up for the first next week.

Claire and West, still boring.  I have dreams about HRG killing him just to make the picture not true.  I want to see Mrs. Bennett actually helping her husband more, as she kind of did in the first episode.  Also, only a faint mention of the "Series of 8" - though I'm tending to think now that it has nothing to do with the death of the elder heroes.  Isaac should win for the most misleading power.

Maya and Alejandro, still boring.  That's with adding Sylar into the mix.  Man, if Sylar can't improve the story, nothing will.  If Sylar got back his intuitive apititude this week, maybe he'll kill them.  Then we can actually have an interesting storyline take its place.  The only thing I wanted to see was Sylar learn Spanish through his eidetic memory and the aptitude.

So, missing two interesting (to me anyway) storylines and including the two boring ones... blah.  Fortunately, the rest of the episode was pretty good, so it wasn't a total loss.


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## GlassJaw (Oct 16, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> The question I have; did Mycah give her those powers when he hugged her and they showed his hand on her back!




No.  It was clear she had it before because she watched the cooking show and then made that flower tomato at the burger place.  That happened before Mycah hugged her.  I think it showed that Mycah's ability to "repair" potentially goes beyond mechanic and electronic devices.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 16, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> The question I have; did Mycah give her those powers when he hugged her and they showed his hand on her back!




No because she copied the rose tomato prior to Micha touching her.


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## satori01 (Oct 16, 2007)

Wow, just Wow.  Far be it for me to argue about the social importance of racial casting in TV and how people interpret it but I think Don and others are missing the intent of the show.   Micah if anything is mild mannered, non aggressive, and certainly not gangsta.
By making the cousin outworldly an annoying, boorish figure it illustrates how difficult a transition this is.  It would be unrealistic to not show some alpha male behavior occurring between the two.  I am never going to convince someone to not be offended, so I will just say you bring up an interesting perspective, but one for me personally that at this time does not have as much resonance, though it is something obviously to watch for.

As for people talking about Claire & Mr. Bennett 'mistrusting' each other.  Claire is lying to her dad to see a boy.  Yes it is really that hard to conceive that a 17 ish girl would lie to her parents to sneak off and see a boy....must never have happened in the history of the world .   Claire is trying to protect her dad by refusing to bring West over to meet Mr. Bennett.   

As for Mr. Bennett, a leopard apparently can not change its spots.  Nothing has really changed from last season, other than he is not using the Haitian to wipe his family's memory.  On the surface he is living one life, but in reality his goal is something else.  Ultimately I would say the character is morally suspect, we know he is comfortable with a certain " gray "area in moral behavior, namely killing people, and the character is basically selfish.  Sure he will justify lying to his family as protecting them, but funny how Mr. Bennett just does what he wants.  No person is so evil as to not have a reason for what they do.

BTW is it me, or did anyone else see the "Godsend" sign on the back of the Girls Check board uniform just under where Micah put his hand.  I slowed it on Tivo and clearly saw it, but it took me pausing the screen and outlining it to my wife for her to see it.


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## Arnwyn (Oct 16, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> So, missing two interesting (to me anyway) storylines and including the two boring ones... blah.  Fortunately, the rest of the episode was pretty good, so it wasn't a total loss.



I'll just quote this section, as it fits exactly how I feel, though I agree with almost all of LightPhoenix's post.

Overall, though, I didn't enjoy this episode that much (nor 3). I hope it gets better.


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## Remus Lupin (Oct 16, 2007)

Ok, so it's now confirmed that Matt's wife was pregnant with the other guy's kid. That ties up a loose end for me. We can now forget about her entirely.

I have to admit, there was a rather humorous "Matt and Mo the gay adoptive parents" vibe going on throughout the episode, which I don't think was entirely accidental.

I'm starting to like Nathan more and more. I'm curious as to whether the reflection is another entity or a projection of his own sense of guilt. Given that he addresses it and tells it to "Go away" or something like that, it's seeming more and more likely that it's another Jessica-like entity.

I'm with those who say give me more Peter and Hiro and less of the Honduran Plague Siblings.

All in all 4 out of 5 stars.


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## Taelorn76 (Oct 16, 2007)

I am surprised that no one has brought up the roach crawling across the brick Sylar used to crack the car thief's head.

For once they showed up when Sylar wasn't dead or dying.


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## Remus Lupin (Oct 16, 2007)

Oh and on HRG, yes, he's clearly evil in my book. He's violent and selfish and controlling, which are pretty good indicators of evil. I'd tag him as Neutral Evil in D&D terms, working with Peter (Lawful Good) and Mohinder (Neutral Good) to bring down the company (Neutral Evil) and Sylar (Chaotic Evil).


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 16, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> No because she copied the rose tomato prior to Micha touching her.



Missed that   

But wonder if he upgraded her?  Human's being bio-electric and our brains being computer like, which would put Micah's power somewhere between Peter and Sylar, being able to analysis, understand and repair/upgrade/downgrade/de-install (oh my).


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## Grog (Oct 16, 2007)

satori01 said:
			
		

> As for people talking about Claire & Mr. Bennett 'mistrusting' each other.  Claire is lying to her dad to see a boy.  Yes it is really that hard to conceive that a 17 ish girl would lie to her parents to sneak off and see a boy....must never have happened in the history of the world .



It's not about Claire lying to her dad to see a boy - it's about Claire trusting said boy, who she's known all of one week, and who upset her badly enough to _make her flee a classroom in tears_, more than her father. Especially when, back in season 1, she found out all the extraordinary risks her father took to protect her while she was growing up.

That's terrible characterization, and the only reason it's happening is because the writers want to manufacture some artificial drama in Claire's relationship with her father.


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## Phoenix8008 (Oct 16, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> But wonder if he upgraded her?  Human's being bio-electric and our brains being computer like, which would put Micah's power somewhere between Peter and Sylar, being able to analysis, understand and repair/upgrade/downgrade/de-install (oh my).



Oooh! Interesting theory! I did get the feeling that there was more going on there than a hug. And after her acrobatic expulsion of the robber, I'm betting she is now gonna be 'good manager material'.

Overall, a good episode but not excellent. The Claire/West/HRG triangle is gonna go all season long and if the painting is accurate we know where it will end. As much as I liked HRG by the end of season one, I gotta admit he's acting pretty selfish. You don't earn trust by keeping secrets, and now the lies and secrets will grow and take on a life of their own.

Nathan was interesting, especially the face in the mirror. So I guess he has a restraining order against him based on what the teacher at his boys' school said? Musta fallen really hard after Peter went boom. Enough to get kicked out of office, or maybe resign? Neat to see Ma Patrelli wanting to pay for her 'crimes'. Felt so wrong for her to be making the sacrifice of herself that at first I was waiting to see if someone was controlling her or had replaced her. Or maybe jail is jsut the safest place for her to hide from the real killer.

Matt and Mo are really an 'Odd Couple', but I'm glad we finally know who the 'Nightmare Man' is. Good that it ties into Matt's story, he needed some more connection with everything else.

While it was cheesy for the twins to run into Sylar like that, I'll give them a pass on this one since it was due to circumstances beyond the writers control. And I'm glad that there is something new to the equation beyond the repetative twins together, twins seperated, black tears, twins reunited and save people not dead yet from virus/curse. Sylar will make watching their journey more bearable. I wonder if he will use a new name now that his Sylar watch is broken? And what the heck is it about him and those monster roaches?! That better be answered this season or it's gonna turn into Heroes' version of 'What crippled John Locke's legs before he got to the island' on Lost.


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 16, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I am surprised that no one has brought up the roach crawling across the brick Sylar used to crack the car thief's head.




I did see that. I wonder what it signifies, other than Sylar is a creep.

Why is marrage such a chore for holloywood writers?

I like the Colombian twins. But if Sylar does kill one, I hope it is the brother as that would leave the woman with nothing to balance her killer powers. And for that matter, where in Mexico are they? It seems like they've been driving north for days and days without crossing the border.


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## Brown Jenkin (Oct 16, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> And for that matter, where in Mexico are they? It seems like they've been driving north for days and days without crossing the border.




It takes 1 day to drive the length of Florida using interstates. The shortest route up Mexico is at least 3 times that long and that is without interstate highways. A week or two is not bad, especially if they are going to California.


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## F5 (Oct 16, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> But wonder if he upgraded her?  Human's being bio-electric and our brains being computer like, which would put Micah's power somewhere between Peter and Sylar, being able to analysis, understand and repair/upgrade/downgrade/de-install (oh my).




He even said that's what he was trying to do, essentially.  Something like "I wish I could fix your dreams the way I fixed the TV".  

I really want to know what The Nightmare Man/Parkman senior is capable of.  Molly says he's "even worse" than the dude that kills people and eats their brains.  He's obviously got some kind of mental power going on.   What else?  I suspect he might be a mimic...an example of what happens when a mimic goes "wrong"...gets too powerful and loses his humanity.  

As for Sylar and the Blunder Twins, I think Sylar's plan is to get them to NY in one piece...he needs to get Mo to "cure" him, and wants the two of them on-hand as his first post-op snack.  This will also be the macguffin that gets Maja to where the Nightmare Man is, allowing her to "kill the devil", as was suggested by the Mexican Healer Woman.  

I just hope they keep Peter away from Maja.  We don't need a recap of last seasons' "Oh, no!  I have this doomsday power, and I can't control it!"


----------



## el-remmen (Oct 16, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> And for that matter, where in Mexico are they? It seems like they've been driving north for days and days without crossing the border.




They came up from Honduras and before being arrested were traveling by foot.  Mexico is BIG!.


As for the running into Sylar thing, I am reminded of this quote by Milan Kundera,

_It is wrong then, to chide the novel for being fascinated by mysterious coincidences, but it is right to chide man for being blind to such coincidences in his daily life.  For he thereby deprives his life of a dimension of beauty._


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 16, 2007)

I was really disappointed by Matt's treatment of Molly. "It's ok, he can't hurt you." How the _hell_ do you know that? Why would you even _think_ that? And that was pre-learning about his dad's involvement. Then he pushes her even harder, "It's ok, he can't hurt you, what's the apartment number?" .


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Oct 16, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I did see that. I wonder what it signifies, other than Sylar is a creep.




I think it still signifies his ability to survive in even the most difficult of situations.  Sylar will pretty much do anything he perceives as necessary to get what he wants.  And, since many theorize he does not have his powers because of the virus, he may very well be dying and not know it.

Overall I liked the episode.  The "mistrust" between Claire and Noah wasn't at all what I was expecting.  HRG was suspicious (normal for him, no matter who or what he's dealing with) and Claire just wanted hang out with her boy, so told a what she perceives as a little white lie.  Makes sense and lays some groundwork for that lie to explode later.  So there's plenty of time for that to develop.

I think Maya and Alejandro will become significantly more interesting with Sylar in tow.  It's going to add a more acceptable level of suspense with the boogey man riding shotgun.  I liked that he used his real name; without his powers, it's back to good old watch repairman.  I almost felt sad for him.

As for the racial issues, I wonder if maybe too much is being made of these things.  As others have mentioned, it's an interesting perspective but I think some of the facts are not known or being ignored.  For instance, Monica clearly stated that a management position was the best way for her to earn enough money to go back to school and get the hell outta Dodge.  She is obviously bothered by the fact that she has to bring her family hamburgers from the restaurant for dinner.  But it's a means to an end.  As for other issues in the show (DL dying, for instance), I think it's more likely that there are other, story-related reasons the characters are gone, rather than some kind of hidden racial agenda.

I do agree the little brother was over-the-top irritating.  It wasn't even cute or funny.  But it could've easily been an asian, or hispanic, or heck even a white kid.  The inner-city culture isn't limited to blacks.  However, the character happened to be black because half of Micah's family is black.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Oct 16, 2007)

Here's my quick random thoughts... 

Sylar + Alejandro + Maya + Nissan Mcgruffen  = the ultimate Nissan Death UV.   Sadly, I suspect that Alejandro will die because nothing kills a scene faster then a third wheel character that needs a translator but doesn't have the charisma to hold a scene of their own.

I think the reason why West is annoying all of us is because deep down we all know he's only interested in getting into Claire's pants.  Unlike Zach from last season, all his interactions with Claire has that forced and unnatural.  What makes things even worse is that West has no charisma and both he and Claire have no chemistry together.  She really needs Zach in her life, not creepy emo stalker boy.

I think the reason why we don't see Mr. Bennet at Kinkos anymore is because he killed the manager, tortured the supervisor, made himself the owner and is currently sending work crews to build his new secret hide out.

We need an episode without Claire now.

I hope that Nathan's estranged wife is crippled once more.  I mean hell, unless Nathan went violent and beat her and their children I seriously doubt he would have a restrainment order that keeps him from visiting his children at school.

Poor Lyle Bennet, it must suck to be the only member of the Bennet family to have less screen time then Mr. Muggles.

Mat's Alignment is Lawful Stupid.  He's a danger to Molly and those around him do to his reckless behavior.  "What, my dad is a psychic villian that can lock in on you when you think about him?  Cool, I want you to think about him, and don't worry, he won't hurt you since that's all in your head... See... I'm psychic, I know these things.   Trust me. [/wink]"


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 16, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> I was really disappointed by Matt's treatment of Molly. "It's ok, he can't hurt you." How the _hell_ do you know that? Why would you even _think_ that? And that was pre-learning about his dad's involvement. Then he pushes her even harder, "It's ok, he can't hurt you, what's the apartment number?" .




He got the city and the apartment floor and number, but I don't remember hearing a street address. 

So is he going to be knocking on every #9 3rd floor apt in Phily


----------



## Relique du Madde (Oct 16, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> He got the city and the apartment floor and number, but I don't remember hearing a street address.
> 
> So is he going to be knocking on every #9 3rd floor apt in Phily




Didn't she stick her pin in the map where the building is located?  He could easily look at it and find out the street by comparing it to google maps


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Oct 16, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> He got the city and the apartment floor and number, but I don't remember hearing a street address.
> 
> So is he going to be knocking on every #9 3rd floor apt in Phily




Molly uses atlases and maps. We saw the pushpin she was using so Parkman has an intersection to go by in looking for the apartment.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 16, 2007)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> I do agree the little brother was over-the-top irritating.  It wasn't even cute or funny.  But it could've easily been an asian, or hispanic, or heck even a white kid.  The inner-city culture isn't limited to blacks.  However, the character happened to be black because half of Micah's family is black.



Boondocks is what I thought and it kind of ticked me off too.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Oct 16, 2007)

> Poor Lyle Bennet, it must suck to be the only member of the Bennet family to have less screen time then Mr. Muggles.




This is the funniest thing I've read in a week! I was LITERALLY Laughing Out Loud.


----------



## Krafus (Oct 16, 2007)

I'm glad Maya and Alejandro met up with Sylar, even if it was contrived - they were incredibly boring on their own, especially with the writers apparently going out of their way to make life extra difficult for the two. They pay to get aboard a truck? Of _course_ the driver is a total sleazebag who wants to rape Maya. They are traversing a guarded area? Of _course_ a truck of soldiers or guards happens by just in time to separate them. They try to steal a car? Of _course_ there's a cop watching the scene and ready to intervene immediately. I shudder to think what the writers had in mind for them next if they hadn't met Sylar.

Oh, and can we finally get an episode without Claire? She's the only hero who, as nearly as I can tell, has been in every single episode so far. Not that she's a bad character, but it would only be fair if she finally missed one, especially with new heroes who could use the extra time for character development. Are the show's producers afraid that male viewers will take up arms if Claire is not in every ep?


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Oct 16, 2007)

Krafus said:
			
		

> Are the show's producers afraid that male viewers will take up arms if Claire is not in every ep?



I'll happily settle for the Blacksmith's daughter.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 17, 2007)

When Claire was walking across campus with stalker-boy, I was reminded how short she is. IMDB says 5'1", but even that seems high compared to how she looks when not in a scene where her height can be boosted.


----------



## Krug (Oct 17, 2007)

Promos for next ep:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2T8ejLtBWI

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N2T8ejLtBWI

Kristin Bell joins the cast. Hmm..


----------



## dravot (Oct 17, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> I have to admit, there was a rather humorous "Matt and Mo the gay adoptive parents" vibe going on throughout the episode, which I don't think was entirely accidental.




Molly has two daddies.


----------



## dravot (Oct 17, 2007)

Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Oooh! Interesting theory! I did get the feeling that there was more going on there than a hug. And after her acrobatic expulsion of the robber, I'm betting she is now gonna be 'good manager material'.




But she was always good manager material.  Her manager even told her that.  Her scores weren't stellar, but they were solidly where they needed to be.  She was turned down because they didn't think she could leave her family when she was sent across the state for training and/or her first management job.


----------



## Pseudonym (Oct 17, 2007)

A few random thoughts ...

Micah's cousin did mention that Katrina ruined her college dreams.  Maybe we'll get more elaboration at some point.

The Claire/West dynamic reminds me way too much of Padme/Anikin.  Is George Lucas writing their dialogue?  I can see Claire trying to keep things secret, but it would be nice if after she found out West could fly she said "So you can fly?  So can my biological father, and my uncle.  Big deal."

I'm assuming that they'll milk Peter's memory loss for a few more episodes, but I assume the Haitian wiped his memory, and got the virus for his efforts.  The series started with "Four Months Later"  We'd better get a flashback episode, and soon.  I liked DL, and we'd better get an explanation.  Has the actor found other work?

I think the painting of Noah shot in the eye Mo Green style is a setup by the Company to draw him out.

Ma Patrelli gave the hairy eyeball to someone as she was being wheeled out.  Thoughts as to  who that was?


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 17, 2007)

Krug said:
			
		

> Kristin Bell joins the cast. *Yu*mm..



"Fixed that for you," as it were.


----------



## fba827 (Oct 17, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> I think it showed that Mycah's ability to "repair" potentially goes beyond mechanic and electronic devices.




Actually, based on Micah's expression just afterwards (and what he said), I took that as 'he doesn't yet totally understand the capabilities of his powers - he just knows he can fix electronic things - and he feels bad for his cousin so why not try ....'  but then nothing actually changed, but he was just trying out of love to test the limits of his capabilities.

that's how i took it when i saw it anyway.


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 17, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I just don't buy those twins happen to find Sylar on the side of the road.  All the roads in MExico all the immigrants trying to get across the border and they run into each other. That is the lamest introductin ever.



Do you read comic books, watch movies?  This is genre stuff baby all the way.  And it happened ALL THE TIME last season.  Moves the plot along, and fits into the "we're all connected" theme in this series.



> Second, ok, why does this show seem to hate minorities.  The mexicans are runaways, DL is dead.  The black girl is an aspiring singer at a fast food restaurant whose only goal is to want to be manager at a fast food restaurant.  The black kid is ultra ghetto. We all do not act like that.  But this is the image.  I have a big problem when the kid with mixed heritage being the smarter, less ghetto of the two. Why can't the other kid be normal.  (because he has black parents?).



Why does this show hate minorities?  A better question is why do people see discrimination under every bush and tree (not that there isn't plenty of discrimination left in the world, there is).  DL wasn't killed off because he's black, he was killed off because he was a secondary character who didn't prove as popular as others.  I'm bummed, cause I think DL was a strong character who could have used more development.

The black girl, Micah's cousin, isn't an aspiring singer who wants nothing more than to be a manager at a fast food joint.  Did we watch the same episode?  She clearly stated she was in school and on her way to a great life when Katrina happened.  She lost her parents and her ability to go to school (probably money, but maybe the school was wiped off the map).  Now she is doing everything in her power to better her situation to both provide for her family and get back into college.  I'm really digging this character, her power seems similar to the waitress' power from last season.

And has been repeatedly pointed out on these threads, the Death Twins aren't Mexican.  They're Honduran, I believe (or was it Guatemalan?).  And they aren't just border jumpers, they are running from the law as suspected murderers and running towards what they hope is a cure.

Micah's other cousin, the wrestling fan, is somewhat stereotypical.  However, he's also a very realistic character.  Sorry, but true.  This character bugs me, but not because he acts "ghetto", but rather because he acts like a typical bratty 13-year-old kid who treats everybody around him like crap.



> Then there was the whole need money for pay per view stupid convo.  YOu have to order a pay per view either on the phone, internet or in person and last i checked none of them is taking cash from a 10 year old.  So even if he had the cash he couldn't order it.  65 bucks for a pay per view, boxing matches aren't even that price.




Actually, having worked for DirecTV, $65.00 for a big wrestling pay-per-view event is pretty standard.  In fact, they can get higher.  And we had kids calling in ALL the time to order them, and we would do it.  If the parents don't put any locks or restrictions on a TV account, kids can pretty much order anything!  Heck, they don't even necessarily need the $65.00 up front, we can add it to the monthly bill!!!  So this part of the episode is SO REAL IT HURTS (sorry, bad DTV memories surfacing).

Racism and discrimination is a serious issue and still exists in TV shows and movies.  But when people start seeing it EVERYWHERE, especially where it just isn't there, it trivializes real discrimination that we need to watch out for and act against.


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 17, 2007)

Pseudonym said:
			
		

> I think the painting of Noah shot in the eye Mo Green style is a setup by the Company to draw him out.



Oooh, didn't think of that!



> Ma Patrelli gave the hairy eyeball to someone as she was being wheeled out.  Thoughts as to  who that was?



I did notice that too, wonder who?


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 17, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Mat's Alignment is Lawful Stupid.  He's a danger to Molly and those around him do to his reckless behavior.  "What, my dad is a psychic villian that can lock in on you when you think about him?  Cool, I want you to think about him, and don't worry, he won't hurt you since that's all in your head... See... I'm psychic, I know these things.   Trust me. [/wink]"




Heh.  I like Matt's character, however he has proven time and time again he is rash and acts without fully thinking things through.  I'm more pissed at Mohinder for letting him go through with it.  I do like that not all of our heroes are always making the "right" decision, and sometimes they do very stupid things.  Adds a bit of realism to our superhero story, don't you think?


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 17, 2007)

Phoenix8008 said:
			
		

> Oooh! Interesting theory! I did get the feeling that there was more going on there than a hug. And after her acrobatic expulsion of the robber, I'm betting she is now gonna be 'good manager material'.



I think you guys are off base.  I do think Micah tried to "fix" his cousin, but was bummed that HE COULDN'T DO IT.  Her ability to absorb WWE style fighting skills is due to the same reason she carved a perfect rose from a tomato at work (pre-hug, I might add).  She's got the same, or similar, power to the waitress last year.



> Overall, a good episode but not excellent. The Claire/West/HRG triangle is gonna go all season long and if the painting is accurate we know where it will end. As much as I liked HRG by the end of season one, I gotta admit he's acting pretty selfish. You don't earn trust by keeping secrets, and now the lies and secrets will grow and take on a life of their own.



HRG, er, Noah, is trying to solve the problems his family places in the only way he knows how.  Getting in touch with his own inner James Bond.  But you're right, his inability to open up to and trust Claire could very well lead to the event depicted in the painting!



> Nathan was interesting, especially the face in the mirror. So I guess he has a restraining order against him based on what the teacher at his boys' school said? Musta fallen really hard after Peter went boom. Enough to get kicked out of office, or maybe resign?



According to votepetrelli.com, Nathan did resign his senate seat, he wasn't "fired" (takes a lot to fire a senator, deserved or not).  Something bad definitely went down as Nathan disintegrated after Peter's apparent death.  Is it tied to the vision of Nuclear Pete that Nathan keeps seeing in mirrors?  Is Nuclear Pete real somehow, or just a manifestation of Nathan's guilt?



> Neat to see Ma Patrelli wanting to pay for her 'crimes'. Felt so wrong for her to be making the sacrifice of herself that at first I was waiting to see if someone was controlling her or had replaced her. Or maybe jail is jsut the safest place for her to hide from the real killer.



Ma Petrelli wants her son Nathan to get his life back, reunite with his wife and kids, and stay safe.  She has zero interest in paying for her crimes, but she's resigned to whatever's going to happen with the mysterious killer.


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 17, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> It's not about Claire lying to her dad to see a boy - it's about Claire trusting said boy, who she's known all of one week, and who upset her badly enough to _make her flee a classroom in tears_, more than her father. Especially when, back in season 1, she found out all the extraordinary risks her father took to protect her while she was growing up.
> 
> That's terrible characterization, and the only reason it's happening is because the writers want to manufacture some artificial drama in Claire's relationship with her father.



When's the last time you were a teenage girl in love?  This part of the story is very believable.

Plus, it's not so much that Claire distrusts her father . . . . she just knows that when West recognizes her dad as HRG, the man who abducted him . . . . and when her dad recognizes West, he realize he knows this boy . . . . well, Claire's a smart girl and I think she realizes it just can't end well if those two meet.  And judging by the painted she hasn't seen, she just might be right!


----------



## Dire Bare (Oct 17, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> I have to admit, there was a rather humorous "Matt and Mo the gay adoptive parents" vibe going on throughout the episode, which I don't think was entirely accidental.




I hate it when Daddy and Daddy fight . . . .


----------



## Relique du Madde (Oct 17, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> Heh.  I like Matt's character, however he has proven time and time again he is rash and acts without fully thinking things through.  I'm more pissed at Mohinder for letting him go through with it.  I do like that not all of our heroes are always making the "right" decision, and sometimes they do very stupid things.  Adds a bit of realism to our superhero story, don't you think?




I like Matt's character also, but that entire scene was mortifying considering that the day before Matt told Molly that he would never let the nightmare man harm her, and what did he do?  He delivered her right too him (with Mohinder doing nothing to snap her out of her 'search trance').  Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure that once Matt found where the building was located he could have easily found where his father was if he actually did detective work instead of over using powers like he always does. 

While i'm on the subject of Mohinder and Matt, is anyone surprised that the Company hasn't decided to bug their apartment or keep tabs of their pad?  After all, unless Molly changed her last name, you would think her existance in New York School System would be a red flag.

Oh yeah... i forgot.. the company's leadership is incompetent this season.. never mind.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 17, 2007)

> I have to admit, there was a rather humorous "Matt and Mo the gay adoptive parents" vibe going on throughout the episode, which I don't think was entirely accidental.



I noticed it too, and find it quite amusing and enjoyable. If it wasn't for the "Nighmare Man" incident, I think they make parents.



			
				Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> I like Matt's character also, but that entire scene was mortifying considering that the day before Matt told Molly that he would never let the nightmare man harm her, and what did he do?  He delivered her right too him (with Mohinder doing nothing to snap her out of her 'search trance').  Sad thing is, I'm pretty sure that once Matt found where the building was located he could have easily found where his father was if he actually did detective work instead of over using powers like he always does.



Well, I think he wasn't so wrong in what he was doing. Molly had these nightmares all the time, and I think they might have destroyed here eventually (sleep deprivation can lead to bad things, and being a child doesn't make it better). And I might also add that she decided that she wanted to help them, probably because she also had a vague hope that she could achieve something with it. 
Matt was certainly blinded by his desire to find his father, but that doesn't mean that it wasn't something that had to be done - despite all the bad things that it might entail. 
Heroes usually have to stand up against their fears and overcome them. That's a "narrative imperative". (Note: I am "Metagaming" here). And that's what Molly is doing now. 
I think Mohinder didn't stop them because he just can't - Molly was willing to help. And I suspect even he saw a possibility that this is the only thing they can do to stop Molly's Nightmare, and bring down the Company.



> While i'm on the subject of Mohinder and Matt, is anyone surprised that the Company hasn't decided to bug their apartment or keep tabs of their pad?  After all, unless Molly changed her last name, you would think her existance in New York School System would be a red flag.
> 
> Oh yeah... i forgot.. the company's leadership is incompetent this season.. never mind.



Do we know they didn't? I tend to assume that they know where Molly is, and are fine with it. I think the only thing they aren't aware of is his relationship with Claire's father. (And I am not sure that Matt is on the plan, nor Molly.)


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 17, 2007)

If I remember correctly, when Matt showed Molly the picture of his dad and she freaked. Mo  then pointed out Bob,his boss and suggested going to him for help. For a guy spying on the company, he seems to trust the company a little to much.

Also on the picture thing, did you notice how Nathan's father's face was turned away form the camera?


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 17, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> I think you guys are off base.  I do think Micah tried to "fix" his cousin, but was bummed that HE COULDN'T DO IT.  Her ability to absorb WWE style fighting skills is due to the same reason she carved a perfect rose from a tomato at work (pre-hug, I might add).  She's got the same, or similar, power to the waitress last year.




Actually, I think her power is most similar to Sylar's.  The key difference being that whereas Sylar's ability (intuitive aptitude) allows him to know how things work, her ability allows her to know how things are done.  It's basically a physical aptitude in contrast to Sylar's mental aptitude.  They even work the same way in that both of them need to see what they're learning - Sylar with the TK guy and how powers work, and Monica with the tomato rose and wrestling move.

This then begs the question, can she mimic any physical motion?  If she sees Nathan fly, will she be able to as well?


----------



## Remus Lupin (Oct 17, 2007)

The Company DOES know that Matt and Mo are raising Molly. Bob said as much when he hired Mohinder. It was couched as a reassurance, but was clearly a threat: "We haven't interfered with that arrangement" {Implied: But we could, if you don't play ball}. However, it's either a) stupid of them not to bug the apartment, since any bad guy worth his salt would, or b) stupid of Matt and Mohinder (nevermind HRG!), not to have thought of it.

It was legitimate for Matt to seek out his father, since he was investigating a series deaths, at least three of which were murders (Patrelli, Linderman, and Hiro's dad), in which his father was his only current lead. But it's absolutely true that a little detective leg work could have gotten him a lot closer to his father before he had to resort to Molly. He's taking the easy way out, and cutting corners, even at the risk of those he loves, which doesn't bode well that we're going to avoid the "evil Matt" of "Five Years Gone".


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 17, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> But it's absolutely true that a little detective leg work could have gotten him a lot closer to his father before he had to resort to Molly. He's taking the easy way out, and cutting corners, even at the risk of those he loves, which doesn't bode well that we're going to avoid the "evil Matt" of "Five Years Gone".





Ahh but then you wouldn't have Molly's mind captured by this season's BBEG


----------



## DonTadow (Oct 17, 2007)

I wish the kid had been trying to get a UFC pay per view as opposed to a wrestling pay per view.  Just would have made the karate chick seen a bit more realistic considering wrestling is all well timed gymnastics designed not to hurt anyone.  If she was copying wrestling she would have missed the guy by a shoe string but just enough so that it looks like it hit him.


----------



## papastebu (Oct 17, 2007)

Cor Azer said:
			
		

> Since they're re-using some powers this season, I wonder if Monica's power is the same as Charlie's memory power?



I think that this power is called Photographic Reflexes, rather than true eideticism, or Photographic Recall. One of Spider-Man's enemies, I believe his name was The Answer, but don't quote me, had this, and started doing a non-powered version of Spidey's acrobatics and fighting style. I think maybe that Monica is a bit like Micah, though, in that she has to see it on TV, or experience it through some other technological source, before she can do it.

As for the fist third of the show being racist, I think that taking care of people who need you is extremely noble, and that's what the character, Monica, is about. People's situations don't always allow them to drag themselves up from the holes they fall into. Several of my relatives have had to quit school as early as freshman high school year just to get jobs and help with the household bills. Granted, this was many years ago, but the concept is still there, and I know that Katrina victims are STILL having a hard time even what? Two years down the road?


----------



## Grog (Oct 17, 2007)

Dire Bare said:
			
		

> When's the last time you were a teenage girl in love?  This part of the story is very believable.



No, it's not, and I don't have to be or have ever been a teenage girl in love to know that. Again, West upset Claire badly enough that she had to _flee a classroom in tears_, and yet, just an hour or so later, she's making out with him. No one turns around that quickly on someone, teenage girl or no.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Oct 17, 2007)

Last season's finale left me a bit cold on the series and so far this season seems to be following the downward trends for me. Most of my interest in the show is sliding away and I don't even bother looking at the comics or anything. It's a shame.

FWIW, they might not be "racist" but the little family IS a racial stereotype in many ways, and for me none of it was done well enough for me to find the home likeable. Monica might be fun, but frankly at this point it's an uphill battle. Sylar & Latins also was boring.

I'd have prefered a Candace Replacement rather than a rewrite, but since Michelle was such a horribly vapid replacement, I'm glad they gacked her right away.

Nathan's problem continues to be the "baseline" missing. No explanation for wife & kids, nothing. Is it suspenseful to drag out the most basic information in a series?

Ma Petrelli gives herself up so no one investigates and finds out about the Powers.

So noble, so great. It's not like there was a nuclear blast above the city of NY that provides something of a clue.

If Claire's romance demonstrates anything, it demonstrates only that women are dumb and like guys that abuse them.  I also still maintain that the kid is another illegitimate kid of Nathans and she's dating her half-brother. The fact that her relationship with her father has reverted to Season One's pre-reveal is just badly acted out this time I think. They don't have the means to convey the reversion well enough to make it believable for me.

Bennett, Mohinder and the Haitian taking on the Company, it's just been so badly done so far, I don't even care. Either the company is incompetent or knows what's going on, and neither answer means much to me. They know where Matt and Molly are, but they lost The Bennetts and maybe Mica?

I'm not sure they ever really explained all the connections of the Company, but if Linderman was in it with the other Seniors, then it's a shame that none of them have taken over. It's even more of a shame that we've seen nothing of the company's response to Nakamura's death.


And, heck, it'd make sense if the 8/8 painting was a lie, but I doubt it is. It'd make sense because that way I could justify the fact that they were setting up a new lab before finishing removing the old materials of the art-studio. It'd be fine if they left it to be seen, but I'm of the mind it's just more incompetence. (Either for the Company or the writers...)


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## Fast Learner (Oct 17, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Ma Petrelli gives herself up so no one investigates and finds out about the Powers.
> 
> So noble, so great. It's not like there was a nuclear blast above the city of NY that provides something of a clue.



A nuclear explosion above NYC is evidence of super-powered human beings? What?


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## Grog (Oct 17, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> If Claire's romance demonstrates anything, it demonstrates only that women are dumb and like guys that abuse them.



And stalk them, don't forget.

West is really starting to get on my nerves. I don't think I've hated a character this much since Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I mean, a character I was supposed to like). Hmm, come to think of it, he was a stalker, too. I'm sensing a trend here....


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 17, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> If she was copying wrestling she would have missed the guy by a shoe string but just enough so that it looks like it hit him.




Luckily for her she watched a match where the Rey Mistereo Jr. (?) was wrestling stiff.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 17, 2007)

papastebu said:
			
		

> I think that this power is called Photographic Reflexes, rather than true eideticism, or Photographic Recall. One of Spider-Man's enemies, I believe his name was The Answer, but don't quote me, had this, and started doing a non-powered version of Spidey's acrobatics and fighting style. I think maybe that Monica is a bit like Micah, though, in that she has to see it on TV, or experience it through some other technological source, before she can do it.
> 
> As for the fist third of the show being racist, I think that taking care of people who need you is extremely noble, and that's what the character, Monica, is about. People's situations don't always allow them to drag themselves up from the holes they fall into. Several of my relatives have had to quit school as early as freshman high school year just to get jobs and help with the household bills. Granted, this was many years ago, but the concept is still there, and I know that Katrina victims are STILL having a hard time even what? Two years down the road?



"Taskmaster possesses an innate ability known as "photographic reflexes", which enable him to watch another person's physical movements and duplicate them without practice, no matter how complex. This ability is only limited by the fact that he does not have superhuman strength or other superhuman attributes. He is a naturally gifted athlete who has trained himself to superb physical condition."


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 17, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> And stalk them, don't forget.
> 
> West is really starting to get on my nerves. I don't think I've hated a character this much since Spike on Buffy the Vampire Slayer (I mean, a character I was supposed to like). Hmm, come to think of it, he was a stalker, too. I'm sensing a trend here....




Son of the Midas Man is my guess.    

I don't like him either, he is shifty and has issues, that does make me think plant but we will  see.


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## dravot (Oct 17, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I wish the kid had been trying to get a UFC pay per view as opposed to a wrestling pay per view.  Just would have made the karate chick seen a bit more realistic considering wrestling is all well timed gymnastics designed not to hurt anyone.  If she was copying wrestling she would have missed the guy by a shoe string but just enough so that it looks like it hit him.




Clearly she can improvise and improve upon what she's learned.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 17, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I wish the kid had been trying to get a UFC pay per view as opposed to a wrestling pay per view.  Just would have made the karate chick seen a bit more realistic considering wrestling is all well timed gymnastics designed not to hurt anyone.  If she was copying wrestling she would have missed the guy by a shoe string but just enough so that it looks like it hit him.




Wrestlers don't "miss each other by a shoestring." They hit each other, hard, and then "sell" the hit as harder than it was.

There's no technical difference between selling a punch and selling a suplex off the top rope.

Unless you'd like to argue that they miss the mat by a shoestring.


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 17, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> No, it's not, and I don't have to be or have ever been a teenage girl in love to know that. Again, West upset Claire badly enough that she had to _flee a classroom in tears_, and yet, just an hour or so later, she's making out with him. No one turns around that quickly on someone, teenage girl or no.




Uhmmm...

I can only surmise from your comment above that your experience with women is either a) limited or b) has been informed solely by relations with some exceptionally atypical ones.

Having been formerly married to an emotional drama queen (and having dated a hyper-rational one after divorce in what can only be generously described as a _folly of overcompensation_), and at other times having dated a raft of women in the emotional range in the middle of the two extremes, I can safely say:

A - Happiness is in the middle of those two extremes; and,
B - All but the hyper-rational _can_ turn around that quickly. Yes, truly. 

That's not just teens; that would be women in their 20s and 30s as well. Absolutely, 100%, no question about it - _at all_.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 17, 2007)

Agreed. Sometimes it's a matter of weeks before things change, other times a matter of minutes. Relationships are way, way more complicated than rationality will ever be able to understand.


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## Grog (Oct 17, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> I can only surmise from your comment above that your experience with women is either a) limited or b) has been informed solely by relations with some exceptionally atypical ones.



You surmise incorrectly.

I know that people who are mercurial enough to turn around that fast on someone exist, but they are a minority, and Claire's characterization on the show thus far has not made me believe that she's one of them. Rather, this whole storyline feels very much like the writers pushing Claire into a relationship with West for no other reason than to create some entirely artificial drama in her relationship with her father. YMMV, and obviously does, but I'll thank you not to make assumptions about me when expressing differences of opinion.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 18, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> A nuclear explosion above NYC is evidence of super-powered human beings? What?





Lets posit two cases:
1) a nuclear blast occurs above NYC.
2) an old Japanese businessman is pushed off a roof.


Which do you believe would lead to an investigation which would reveal the presence of those with super powers?


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 18, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> You surmise incorrectly.
> 
> I know that people who are mercurial enough to turn around that fast on someone exist, but they are a minority, and Claire's characterization on the show thus far has not made me believe that she's one of them.




Your mistake is in assuming she "turned around" from an emotional disposition of A) *This guy is a Creep* to  B) T*his guy is hot and I like him*.

It was already at "B". Her attraction and emotional interest to him is what made her vulnerable and sent her out of the room in a state of tears. That's why it was possible for him to bring her to a state of tears in the first place. Claire getting to "B" with West was what episode #1 was about.

When you are already at "B", can a woman go from tears to making out in an hour? 

Damn right. That's not a minority of women. 

_finis_


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## Grog (Oct 18, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> It was already at "B". Her attraction and emotional interest to him is what made her vulnerable and sent her out of the room in a state of tears. That's why it was possible for him to bring her to a state of tears in the first place. Claire getting to "B" with West was what episode #1 was about.



Did you watch the same episode I did? What sent Claire out of the room in a state of tears was that she was terrified that West was going to tell the whole class that he'd seen her regenerate her toe after she'd cut it off, thereby putting her entire family in danger and requiring them to uproot their lives yet again and run off to god-knows-where. It had nothing to do with any attraction she may or may not have felt for him before then.


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## Steel_Wind (Oct 18, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Did you watch the same episode I did? What sent Claire out of the room in a state of tears was that she was terrified that West was going to tell the whole class that he'd seen her regenerate her toe after she'd cut it off, thereby putting her entire family in danger and requiring them to uproot their lives yet again and run off to god-knows-where. It had nothing to do with any attraction she may or may not have felt for him before then.




Episode #3 = Claire + West:

scene #1 pedicure
scene #2 "lizard-girl", - waaaah out of room
scene #3 "I'm tired of being someone I'm not". "Claire. Shut-up." And West sweeps her off her feet - literally - and it's smiles and wondrous laughter 
Scene #4: at the beach+confessions of the soul "do me do me, baby baby"  

There's lots difficult to accept about the premise of this story - but ending in kisses on the beach isn't one of them.


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## Grog (Oct 18, 2007)

I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this. I don't find it believable at all. And I still think it's all being done just to create unnecessary drama in Claire's relationship with her father, but I guess we'll see on that.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 18, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> It was already at "B". Her attraction and emotional interest to him is what made her vulnerable and sent her out of the room in a state of tears.




I saw no sign of anything except annoyance and antipathy before the turn, I think you're reading into the material somewhat. If he had been at all sympathetic I could see, but I don't see anything about her (except for looks) that would draw him to act that way either, so I chalk it up to plot device.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 18, 2007)

Am I the only one foreseeing a sweeps week cliffhanger where Claire thinks she's pregnant, HRG goes ballistic and deciding to go "protective/possessive father" on West which leads to to painting 8 / 8?


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## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 18, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Am I the only one foreseeing...




Wow. I’m not say that is impossible, but I think it would really be jumping the shark, so to speak.


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## Silver Moon (Oct 18, 2007)

Wow, interesting comments, it sounds like I must be the only person out there who is enjoying this season of Heroes more than last season.    I'll admit part of that is because I love the concept of the prior generation of heroes, must be a carryover for my love of the old JLA/JSA crossover stories in DC Comics.   I am also throughly enjoying the ancient Japan storyline.    Syler being drawn to the twins didn't stike me as contrived - I assume that he somehow did it intentionally.   As for Claire, as the father of a teenage girl and find absolutely nothing inconsistent about that storyline.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Oct 18, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> Wow, interesting comments, it sounds like I must be the only person out there who is enjoying this season of Heroes more than last season.



More? To early to tell. But definitely as much.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 18, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Lets posit two cases:
> 1) a nuclear blast occurs above NYC.
> 2) an old Japanese businessman is pushed off a roof.
> 
> Which do you believe would lead to an investigation which would reveal the presence of those with super powers?



Of the two, the latter, by far.

In the case of a nuclear blast, how do investigators try to figure it out? Try to track fissionable material, the activities of terrorist groups, etc. Such an investigation would never practically lead to any of the individuals who were actually involved.

In the case of the murder, his known associates, friends, family, and enemies would all be contacted, many of whom have something to hide.


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## DonTadow (Oct 18, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> Wrestlers don't "miss each other by a shoestring." They hit each other, hard, and then "sell" the hit as harder than it was.
> 
> There's no technical difference between selling a punch and selling a suplex off the top rope.
> 
> Unless you'd like to argue that they miss the mat by a shoestring.



I like the better reason that she was wrestling stiff  

Wrestlers miss each other a lot when it comes to kicks, stumps, and punches. If they are not missing they are pulling back with these maneuvers so not to exert any real force.  This is usually to save their stamina and physical endurance for more difficult acrobatics like tkaing a slam or suplex.  That move she performed in wrestling ( i think that was kinda of like Rey's 619)  is something that he would pull back on so not to damage his legs or the neck, abdimon of the individual. 

Cameramen are usually the unsung heroes in wrestling. I remember when I first got into wrestling, I'd buy tickets right up front, then I stopped after the experience was completely ruined for me.  You see all the near misses that the camera turns away from.


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## DonTadow (Oct 18, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> Wow, interesting comments, it sounds like I must be the only person out there who is enjoying this season of Heroes more than last season.    I'll admit part of that is because I love the concept of the prior generation of heroes, must be a carryover for my love of the old JLA/JSA crossover stories in DC Comics.   I am also throughly enjoying the ancient Japan storyline.    Syler being drawn to the twins didn't stike me as contrived - I assume that he somehow did it intentionally.   As for Claire, as the father of a teenage girl and find absolutely nothing inconsistent about that storyline.



I'm enjoying it, last night just dropped it down a few notches and i forgot how slow it ccould be.  The sylar thing just reeked of sloppy writing. The closest thing to that last year was the meeting up on the road to vegas with Hiro, Nikki and DH, and I could buy that a bit because there may only be a few main highways leading to vegaus. But if this gene is so rare, the likelihood of finding one of those people hunched over on the road is astranomical.  The likilihood that this person you find knows the person in america you are looking for is just as much. 

I understand candace left the show, but there were things that could have been done if they weren't trying to rush this story. Obviously replacing her was mentioned but they also could have introduced another super with some wierd power that spends time with sylar until he ofts them.  Out of all the scenerios the easiest way they could have done it was to drop sylar on a road and have their car almost run them over.


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## Gallo22 (Oct 18, 2007)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Exactly.
> 
> She wanted to make manager to make more money to help support the family AND to be able to pay for school to get a career.
> 
> I'm sorry, but if that's offensive then...well, there's just no winning.




Well said and ditto!!!  Also the manager told her that since the hurricane, jobs are very hard to find.  And..., didn't she work along a white girl who had no ambition and did not seem to be going anywhere?????


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## Gallo22 (Oct 18, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> No, it's not, and I don't have to be or have ever been a teenage girl in love to know that. Again, West upset Claire badly enough that she had to _flee a classroom in tears_, and yet, just an hour or so later, she's making out with him. No one turns around that quickly on someone, teenage girl or no.




Well, perhaps, but for me personally...when I was a young kid, 16 or so, one minute I was fighting (verbally) with this girl that hated my guts and the next minute we were making out...

also, as a father of three, I can state from numerous occasions that, one day my kids are fighting with someone and the next day they are best friends with that same kid they were fighting with....   :\


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## Gallo22 (Oct 18, 2007)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> Wow, interesting comments, it sounds like I must be the only person out there who is enjoying this season of Heroes more than last season.    I'll admit part of that is because I love the concept of the prior generation of heroes, must be a carryover for my love of the old JLA/JSA crossover stories in DC Comics.   I am also throughly enjoying the ancient Japan storyline.    Syler being drawn to the twins didn't stike me as contrived - I assume that he somehow did it intentionally.   As for Claire, as the father of a teenage girl and find absolutely nothing inconsistent about that storyline.




I'm with you Silver Moon.  I'm enjoying this years season very much...  

What I don't understand is, if someone does not like the show, why continue to watch it???  move on to another show.  I did that with Flash Gordon...watched 10 minutes of the first episode and said, "nope", no for me...


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## GoodKingJayIII (Oct 18, 2007)

Gallo22 said:
			
		

> What I don't understand is, if someone does not like the show, why continue to watch it???  move on to another show.  I did that with Flash Gordon...watched 10 minutes of the first episode and said, "nope", no for me...




Because many of us are heavily invested after the first season?  The comparison to Flash Gordon is not appropriate because 10 minutes is not enough time to get invested in _any_ show.  I'm not going to just stop watching Heroes because I dislike the current direction.  The show's earned my love and respect and as far as I'm concerned it deserves the chance get out of the slump.

Though truth be told, it's still a very good show; much better than most out there.  The storylines with Peter and Claire are somewhat weak, I don't like the Maya/Alejandro dynamic (though it's a lot more interesting now that Sylar is involved).  The stuff with Hiro and Kensei is great, if a tad predictable (H meets K, K is a buffoon, H must pose as K to make sure K does all his legendary stuff, H ends up doing everything instead.)  Overall, I think it will continue to improve.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Oct 18, 2007)

I hate the Claire/West budding relationship, not becuase I feel it's somehow unbelievable, but because I feel like it is SO FREAKING OBVIOUS that West is a badguy that I can hardly stand to watch.

I think West knows that Noah is HRG and he's going to use Claire to get back at him for whatever he did.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 18, 2007)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I hate the Claire/West budding relationship, not becuase I feel it's somehow unbelievable, but because I feel like it is SO FREAKING OBVIOUS that West is a badguy that I can hardly stand to watch.
> 
> I think West knows that Noah is HRG and he's going to use Claire to get back at him for whatever he did.



Or breeding of the Company OR Claire's (grandmother - Peter and Nathan's mom) an arranged marriage.


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## Gallo22 (Oct 18, 2007)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Because many of us are heavily invested after the first season?  The comparison to Flash Gordon is not appropriate because 10 minutes is not enough time to get invested in _any_ show.  I'm not going to just stop watching Heroes because I dislike the current direction.  The show's earned my love and respect and as far as I'm concerned it deserves the chance get out of the slump.
> 
> Though truth be told, it's still a very good show; much better than most out there.  The storylines with Peter and Claire are somewhat weak, I don't like the Maya/Alejandro dynamic (though it's a lot more interesting now that Sylar is involved).  The stuff with Hiro and Kensei is great, if a tad predictable (H meets K, K is a buffoon, H must pose as K to make sure K does all his legendary stuff, H ends up doing everything instead.)  Overall, I think it will continue to improve.




Then what you're saying is, you like the show.  So if this is true, then my comments do not pertain to you.


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## GoodKingJayIII (Oct 18, 2007)

Gallo22 said:
			
		

> Then what you're saying is, you like the show.  So if this is true, then my comments do not pertain to you.




Well yes, I like the show, otherwise I wouldn't be posting here.  You quoted Silver Moon (who said they liked this season) then suggested that those who don't like it shouldn't watch it.  Which I agree with.  But your comment assumed that those who do not like this season so far do not like the show as a whole.  Which isn't necessarily true.

Just sayin' that we can be critical without dislike.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 18, 2007)

Gallo22 said:
			
		

> Then what you're saying is, you like the show.  So if this is true, then my comments do not pertain to you.




Because I liked first season, and find second season failing me. I've mostly cut back on posting to these threads since it's a no-where streak, but sometimes stuff just screams "bad plot device" to me...

Anyway, the main disappoints for me are the lack of a baseline of the world as it stands, and dividing all the plot lines back up again so we have to wait for the buildup and eventual meeting. The snippets are too short, the characters too scattered. As the show progresses, these things can quite possibly turn around and the show might be more enjoyable for me, so unless something else comes up to draw me away, I'll waste the time on it.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 18, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Of the two, the latter, by far.
> 
> In the case of a nuclear blast, how do investigators try to figure it out? Try to track fissionable material, the activities of terrorist groups, etc. Such an investigation would never practically lead to any of the individuals who were actually involved.



But it would require an explanation, and have lots of folks looking into it.



> In the case of the murder, his known associates, friends, family, and enemies would all be contacted, many of whom have something to hide.




Not really. There would be no demonstration of power, there would be no obvious means to link the death to powered individuals. The link with Petrelli and Nakamura was tenuous at best.

Heck, I'd think the links would put any detective worth the name on the trail of Linderman's crime ring, but that's just me. You obviously disagree and there's no way to make you see my vantage.


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## TemplarSaint (Oct 19, 2007)

I think we'll find out that Matt's dad isn't the big evil Molly makes him out to be.  I think he's an old man on the run, and he uses his owns gifts to frighten away anyone who looks for him.  Matt said he was a con man, and I think it would be pretty easy for a con with psychic gifts to create an aura of menace around himself.  

And if any of the show's writers are reading this, please note that Louisiana does not have counties.  Nichelle Nichols should have said that lost of people in the parish would be happy to have jobs.  Really, people, how hard is it to research a state?


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## DonTadow (Oct 19, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> You surmise incorrectly.
> 
> I know that people who are mercurial enough to turn around that fast on someone exist, but they are a minority, and Claire's characterization on the show thus far has not made me believe that she's one of them. Rather, this whole storyline feels very much like the writers pushing Claire into a relationship with West for no other reason than to create some entirely artificial drama in her relationship with her father. YMMV, and obviously does, but I'll thank you not to make assumptions about me when expressing differences of opinion.



Though I'm not a fan of west, that does sound like the typical behavior I've experienced with a variety of women highschool and college.  ONe minute its one emotion the next its another.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 19, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Though I'm not a fan of west, that does sound like the typical behavior I've experienced with a variety of women highschool and college.  ONe minute its one emotion the next its another.




Yeah but those extreme emotion swings don't tend to happen everyday and every hour like it does with Claire.


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## Blastin (Oct 19, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Yeah but those extreme emotion swings don't tend to happen everyday and every hour like it does with Claire.





 Umm....wow.....
  I have been around teen girls that had more than that per minute.....


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## Fast Learner (Oct 20, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> But it would require an explanation, and have lots of folks looking into it.



Yes, but nothing about it says "super-powered human beings."



> Not really. There would be no demonstration of power, there would be no obvious means to link the death to powered individuals. The link with Petrelli and Nakamura was tenuous at best.



But his son would be looked at, and his company, and the location (which ties to Deveaux and others). Not a strong tie, but more than between the nuclear blast and any of the heroes.



> Heck, I'd think the links would put any detective worth the name on the trail of Linderman's crime ring, but that's just me. You obviously disagree and there's no way to make you see my vantage.



And vice versa, I guess. Ah well, good discussion, anyway!


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## Fast Learner (Oct 20, 2007)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I hate the Claire/West budding relationship, not becuase I feel it's somehow unbelievable, but because I feel like it is SO FREAKING OBVIOUS that West is a badguy that I can hardly stand to watch.



Agreed. Though I guess it's not that obvious to many folks, because I brought it up to several friends who love the show, and it never occurred to them. And they're smart folks. Weird.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Oct 20, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Agreed. Though I guess it's not that obvious to many folks, because I brought it up to several friends who love the show, and it never occurred to them. And they're smart folks. Weird.




He may not be a "bad guy". I think he is an "average guy" who will be motivated to extract revenge upon the Company and its representative who he perceives hurt him.

I think in the end he will pull back from the brink - but not before he does a lot of damage.

HRG hurt a lot of people. Motivated to seek revenge on HRG does not make West bad - it makes him human.


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## SnowRaven (Oct 20, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Yes, but nothing about it says "super-powered human beings."




I think the point is more that, no matter the explanation, there is a requirement to investigate thoroughly. There is no "easy explanation" that would lead to the rest of the world going "oh, okay, that's fine then" and move on with life. A nuclear blast occurred above NY and an answer MUST be found.

Compared to a murder, quite a lot of which go unsolved.

The shows been okay, but it does seem very odd that no one mentions the blast.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 21, 2007)

SnowRaven said:
			
		

> I think the point is more that, no matter the explanation, there is a requirement to investigate thoroughly. There is no "easy explanation" that would lead to the rest of the world going "oh, okay, that's fine then" and move on with life. A nuclear blast occurred above NY and an answer MUST be found.
> 
> Compared to a murder, quite a lot of which go unsolved.



I do appreciate that, you bet. I still think the murder is much more likely to lead to the discovery of heroes, but I agree that it would be impossible to shrug off a nuclear blast.



> The shows been okay, but it does seem very odd that no one mentions the blast.



I'm _really_ hoping they have a "the last four months" episode soon.


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## Vocenoctum (Oct 22, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> I'm _really_ hoping they have a "the last four months" episode soon.




I'd settle for a freaking news cast in the background mentioning ANYTHING...


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## Cor Azer (Oct 22, 2007)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> I do appreciate that, you bet. I still think the murder is much more likely to lead to the discovery of heroes, but I agree that it would be impossible to shrug off a nuclear blast.
> 
> 
> I'm _really_ hoping they have a "the last four months" episode soon.




An upcoming episode (3-4 out I think) is apparently called Four Months Ago.


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