# Spellcasting limits



## BSF (Sep 30, 2006)

It has finally come up and I realized I don't have as solid an understanding of spellcasting limits as I would like.    

OK, page 21 of the PDF discusses spellcasting limits.  

In general, you can only pop 5 MP into a spell for every related spell list you know.  You know 1 Evoke, you can only burn 5 MP into said Evoke.  If you know 2 Evokes, then you can spend 10 points on an Evoke.  If you know 3 Evokes, you can spend 15 MP.  With 4+ evokes, you can spend 20 MP.  

That seems straightforward enough.  But what about general enhancements?  Do those count?

Let's go extreme here.  We will assume we have a 20th level mage that has focused on just about everything except Evoke lists.  At 20th level, the mage finally chose an Evoke Fire spell list.  Woot!  Our mage can finally deal direct damage.  But how much?

Can the mage only spend 5 MP total on a pure Evoke spell?  Or can the mage spend 5 MP on the Evoke, and then spend up to 15 MP more on general enhancements (range, area, duration, etc)?  

It seems logical that the general enhancements don't count toward that total because you could combine lists.  (Perhaps something along the lines of _Shearing Flames_ out of Lyceian Arcana.)  And the overall spell wouldn't be limited to just the Evoke Fire limitations.  Am I correct in this assumption?

OK, what about with Enduring Damage?  That would be limited by the number of spell lists right?  So the same mage could Evoke Fire 5 with 4 of that being Enduring Damage basic for 1 minute.  But the mage could not utilize Enduring Damage short for 10 minutes because that requires 10 MP in the Evoke aspect of the spell.  Is this generally correct?

Along similar lines, it seems like a high level mage with two only Evoke Lists, maybe Evoke Fire and Evoke Metal, could create a 20MP spell by spending Evoke Fire 10/Evoke Metal 10.  Perhaps to attack an adjacent opponent with a huge, flaming sword using a touch attack. 

Just looking for a little feedback to clarify if I understand the intent of the rules correctly.  

Now, just to add a little levity and usefulness to the post, how about I write up that spell?  Maybe at a slightly lower level to make it useful in more games.

*Beltin's Sword of Surtr*
Evoke Metal 2/Evoke Fire 5
Total MP:  7
Range: Touch
Duration: Immediate
Area:  Creature Touched

You summon a large greatsword (Fire-giant sized to be precise) covered with flames that immediately strikes an adjacent enemy.  Make a ranged touch attack.  If you hit, the target suffers 3d6 slashing damage + 2d6 fire damage and the target will catch on fire.  Burning targets suffer 1d6 damage each round.  Each round, a creature on fire may make a DC 15 Reflex save to put out the flames.  Rolling on the ground provides a +4 bonus to this save.  
_Costs:_2 MP Metal damage, 2 MP Fire Damage, 3 MP Moderate fire side effect.


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## Verequus (Oct 1, 2006)

BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> It has finally come up and I realized I don't have as solid an understanding of spellcasting limits as I would like.
> 
> OK, page 21 of the PDF discusses spellcasting limits.
> 
> In general, you can only pop 5 MP into a spell for every related spell list you know.  You know 1 Evoke, you can only burn 5 MP into said Evoke.  If you know 2 Evokes, then you can spend 10 points on an Evoke.  If you know 3 Evokes, you can spend 15 MP.  With 4+ evokes, you can spend 20 MP.




I hope that I can help you with your question. BTW, your quote doesn't mention the level-based limit. I state it only so no one gets a wrong impression.



			
				BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> That seems straightforward enough.  But what about general enhancements?  Do those count?




I've never included general enhancements regarding this restriction. After all, there are no general enhancements lists to choose their knowledge of, so it would result to be automatically limited to 5 MP at maximum for general enhancements. Doesn't make sense. Furthermore, the limitations regarding the number of known spell lists result that if you want a magic generalist you need general enhancements to have all spells at maximum power. Theoretically. Practically you won't have so many spells available (unless using books).



			
				BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> Let's go extreme here.  We will assume we have a 20th level mage that has focused on just about everything except Evoke lists.  At 20th level, the mage finally chose an Evoke Fire spell list.  Woot!  Our mage can finally deal direct damage.  But how much?
> 
> Can the mage only spend 5 MP total on a pure Evoke spell?  Or can the mage spend 5 MP on the Evoke, and then spend up to 15 MP more on general enhancements (range, area, duration, etc)?




The mage can spend up to 20 MP on this spell, while at maximum only 5 MP on Evoke enhancements. Assuming that this mage has for every type of spell list (except Evoke) at least 4 lists available he can choose to do with the remaining MP as he wishes.



			
				BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> It seems logical that the general enhancements don't count toward that total because you could combine lists.  (Perhaps something along the lines of _Shearing Flames_ out of Lyceian Arcana.)  And the overall spell wouldn't be limited to just the Evoke Fire limitations.  Am I correct in this assumption?




Is my text above enough to dispel your confusion?



			
				BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> OK, what about with Enduring Damage?  That would be limited by the number of spell lists right?  So the same mage could Evoke Fire 5 with 4 of that being Enduring Damage basic for 1 minute.  But the mage could not utilize Enduring Damage short for 10 minutes because that requires 10 MP in the Evoke aspect of the spell.  Is this generally correct?




Actually, you can choose Enduring Damage for a particular spell list as often as you like. When you have the MP for that available, that is. In our case, the mage is indeed limited to the basic duration, as Enduring Evoke is an Evoke enhancement.



			
				BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> Along similar lines, it seems like a high level mage with two only Evoke Lists, maybe Evoke Fire and Evoke Metal, could create a 20MP spell by spending Evoke Fire 10/Evoke Metal 10.  Perhaps to attack an adjacent opponent with a huge, flaming sword using a touch attack.




Wrong. He can spend only 10 MP combined on Evoke enhancements. He can cast Evoke Fire 10/Gen 10 or something, but nothing else regarding Evoke.



			
				BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> Just looking for a little feedback to clarify if I understand the intent of the rules correctly.
> 
> Now, just to add a little levity and usefulness to the post, how about I write up that spell?  Maybe at a slightly lower level to make it useful in more games.
> 
> ...




Looks good. For that spell, you need two Evoke lists (regarding the MP limit) and be at least 7th level.


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