# Mage Armor does not stack with Armor, Shield does not stack with a Shield



## fnork de sporg (Mar 20, 2004)

Can you cast amge armor on someone wearing armor? Or Shield on someone using a Shield?

No?

Or yes?


(One of my players got in to an argument about this, we need an impartial objective ruling that I can show them to make them shut up.)


----------



## Pax (Mar 20, 2004)

Yes, you can cast eithr one on someone in armor and shield.  No, it won't stack - the recipient would use the better of the two, and only the better of the two.  Same as with any *other* case where someone has two bonusses of the same name.

Mage armor produces an armor bonus; that armor bonus won't stack with the bonus of any worn armor - whichever single bonus is higher is the one the character gets to use.

Ditto with Shield, and shields (though, unless they have a magical shield, it's almost assured thatthe shield spell will give a better bonus).

The main benefit might be, Mage Armor and Shield are both [force] effects, and thus, are fully effective against incorporeal touch attacks.  Thus, even the plate-armor-wearing TANK might appreciate a Mage Armor spell, to bring his AC against such attacks up from 10 or 11, to 14 or 15 - and a shield would bring that up even further, to a reasonable 18 or 19.

This is all based on pretty basic, fundamental 3.XE rules - specifically, the rules for stacking bonusses.


----------



## Jhulae (Mar 20, 2004)

fnork de sporg said:
			
		

> Can you cast amge armor on someone wearing armor? Or Shield on someone using a Shield?
> 
> No?
> 
> ...




Yes, you can cast mage armor on someone wearing armor.  However, mage armor provides an 'armor bonus'.  Armor provides an 'armor bonus'.  Only the highest of those bonuses takes effect.  Casting mage armor on someone in leather gives them a +4 armor bonus, with a maximum of +8 from dex.  Casting Mage Armor on someone in plate mail gives them a +8 armor bonus with a maximum +1 dex bonus (yes, that's Plate Mail's normal stats).

I didn't think shield was able to be cast on others.  If so, the same precident would apply.  However, except for tower and magic shields (or magic tower shields), the Shield spell is a better bonus.

Note, once again, the bonuses do *not* stack.  Only the highest one applies.

Pax:     darn same time posting.. 

Oh, what Pax mentioned is a good point, too.  If you cast MA on someone in plate, their touch vs incorporeal attacks would use MA's bonus, because it's higher than the plate mail's (which is +0 versus incorporeal touch attacks, like all other non-force armor).


----------



## Pax (Mar 20, 2004)

Jhulae said:
			
		

> I didn't think shield was able to be cast on others.  If so, the same precident would apply.  However, except for tower and magic shields (or magic tower shields), the Shield spell is a better bonus.



  Improved familiar, an imp or quasit with a suitably-scaled shield, and <i>shared spell</i>.

  Or a potion.  ^_^

  Heck, theoretically, you could cast _Chain Shield_, and tag yoru entire party while you pop the spell on yourself.  And _Chain Mage Armor_ too.  Probably a waste of 5th-level spell slots, but if you're expecting incorporeal foes (or are somewhere that you can't HAVE armor and/or shields - say, being ushered into teh King's presence), either or both oculd be very useful.



			
				Jhulae said:
			
		

> Pax:     darn same time posting..



  No, it's not.  I beat you by two whole minutes! lol!


----------



## James McMurray (Mar 20, 2004)

Potions can't be made from personal spells. So you'd have to trick your GM into allowing it in a single harged wonderous item which oddly enough would cost the same as a potion). And you can't chain a personal spell, it has to have a range graeater than touch.

As people said though, Mage Armor is great against incorporeal foes. Generally the incorporeal undead have weak attack bonuses, and adding +4 AC (or +8 with shield) will be a vast improvement. And don't forget the Luminous Armor (+5) and Greater Luminous Armor (+8) spells from BoED. They also shed light which is so bright it causes attack penalties against you. In the right circumstances Greater Luminous Armor is worth +12 or more to your AC.


----------



## Hypersmurf (Mar 20, 2004)

James McMurray said:
			
		

> Potions can't be made from personal spells. So you'd have to trick your GM into allowing it in a single harged wonderous item which oddly enough would cost the same as a potion).




Stick to Core so the DM can't complain - Lesser Ring of Spell Storing.  Don't leave home without it.

-Hyp.


----------

