# Totemist has ruined me, or "Why Natural Attacks seem cooler than Weapon Attacks"



## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 30, 2012)

So I'm more a skill monkey or caster kinda guy. The idea of Being Batman appeals to me. 

And so when I decided to turn my attention to building a damage dealer, I looked at the Totemist, bercause it seemed different. And it is!

Girallon Arms grant 4 natural attacks. Lamia Belt adds 2 more. Mix in any number of ways to get a bite attack. Strength Mod. applies to all. 

Multiattack feat grants only a -2 penalty on 6 out of those 7 attacks. Improved Multiattack makes the penalties go away.

There are a number of ways to get a full attack after a move.

...So, when comparing these juicy combat skills to the multiple attacks one can get using standard BAB and weapons with the attack score decending by 5 points, I can't think of any reason to consider playing another class as a damage dealer. 

Compare the following to a classic melee build:

Level 5 Totemist- 

BAB 3

Having Girallon Arms bound to your Totem Chakra grants you 4 claw attacks. Take the Multiattack and Improved Multiattack feats and you're doing all 4 attacks at full BAB. It only gets better from here.

I think Totemist is my new favorite melee class. Can anyone else educate me as to why I might try to play a more classic build compared to this?


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## Drowbane (Jun 30, 2012)

Medium BAB sucks. Aside from that, Totemists can be pretty badass. I once had a Warforged Totemist (tee-hee). Two slams (warforged feat for second) + four claws + bite (warforged feat) with Adamantine Body. Good times. 

"His" name was Nanite.


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## WHW4 (Jun 30, 2012)

The only "reason" I can think of to not play it is it doesn't sound very fun or flavorful. At least to me.

I can wrap my mind around the image of a warrior swinging a sword or a faerie casting spells or what-have-you. The totemist just lacks a coolness factor. With all those attacks I instantly think of the Tasmanian devil and the whole dust cloud with arms and legs flailing out at random times. Just seems silly.

I guess it just boils down to what looks cool in your head while you're playing. If you like it, play it!


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## xigbar (Jun 30, 2012)

They're really fun in gestalt games. Pair them with Swordsage of Warblade on the other side for tiger claw maneuvers. Or a Race with multiple appendages. Insectile Arrow Demon is something i'd like to try. Based on what you've just stated, it would have 14 natural attacks. Or, actually, be a were-giant squid on the other side.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 30, 2012)

I've built a Totemist Based off a Longtooth Shifter, took 5 levels of Weretouched Master and went the Tiger route, and capped the build off with 4 levels of Warshaper for kicks.  



Drowbane said:


> Medium BAB sucks. Aside from that, Totemists can be pretty badass. I once had a Warforged Totemist (tee-hee). Two slams (warforged feat for second) + four claws + bite (warforged feat) with Adamantine Body. Good times.
> 
> "His" name was Nanite.



Nanite sounds awesome.  

While I agree that Medium BAB is poo compared to Full in most cases, a Totemist 20 with 7 natural attacks gets those attacks at 15/10/10/10/10/10/10. Toss in Multiattack feat someplace and it's 7 attacks at 15/13/13/13/13/13/13, use Improved Multiattack at it's 15 across the board.  
A Barbarian level 20 gets 4 attacks at 20/15/10/5.  I haven't playtested Totemist at level 20 yet but the math looks better. 

This is what's selling me on Totemist.  More attacks at an overall higher accuracy.



WHW4 said:


> The only "reason" I can think of to not play it is it doesn't sound very fun or flavorful. At least to me.
> 
> I can wrap my mind around the image of a warrior swinging a sword or a faerie casting spells or what-have-you. The totemist just lacks a coolness factor. With all those attacks I instantly think of the Tasmanian devil and the whole dust cloud with arms and legs flailing out at random times. Just seems silly.
> 
> I guess it just boils down to what looks cool in your head while you're playing. If you like it, play it!



Tazmanian Devil, yeah, I like that idea. I was picturing more of a pounce, grab and slash outwards in all directions, but that's fun too.


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## Dandu (Jun 30, 2012)




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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 30, 2012)

Dandu said:


>



Exactly.
4th level of Warshaper granting fast healing 2 really rounds the image out.


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## WHW4 (Jun 30, 2012)

Hm. Granted this is D&D Legacy forum so this may be blasphemous.... but have you looked much at M&M 2e? Specifically the Warriors and Warlocks source book?

You could model whatever concept you wanted. There are some cool ways to simulate multiple attacks with descriptors and whatnot. Just a random thought that popped into my head when I saw the nice pic of Wolvie.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 30, 2012)

WHW4 said:


> Hm. Granted this is D&D Legacy forum so this may be blasphemous.... but have you looked much at M&M 2e? Specifically the Warriors and Warlocks source book?
> 
> You could model whatever concept you wanted. There are some cool ways to simulate multiple attacks with descriptors and whatnot. Just a random thought that popped into my head when I saw the nice pic of Wolvie.



I possess oodles of 3.x books, I've got nothing in 2nd edition.


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## Jack Simth (Jun 30, 2012)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> I possess oodles of 3.x books, I've got nothing in 2nd edition.




I am reasonably certain that WHW4 was referring to Mutants & Masterminds, a gaming system of its own.


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## emoplato (Jun 30, 2012)

They really are cooler and they can gain more die damage. It is because the sheer fun of saying oh did I miss oh look I have another and mauling them to the ground because of the insane CMB checks you can rack up. Also you forgot three more from Improved Unarmed Strike. 
Power attack is great but I find unless but to really use it you need to have insane attack boosting ability(ToB/Kensai I am looking at you) or you are striking the side of a barn you must charge and I have pointed out problems with charging in other forums. There are things out there that by simply hitting things a lot can do much more harm or better chance of than the one mighty blow of a two-handed weapon when magical defenses are in the picture(backbiter).


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## Jack Simth (Jun 30, 2012)

emoplato said:


> They really are cooler and they can gain more die damage. It is because the sheer fun of saying oh did I miss oh look I have another and mauling them to the ground because of the insane CMB checks you can rack up. Also you forgot three more from Improved Unarmed Strike.
> Power attack is great but I find unless but to really use it you need to have insane attack boosting ability(ToB/Kensai I am looking at you) or you are striking the side of a barn you must charge and I have pointed out problems with charging in other forums. There are things out there that by simply hitting things a lot can do much more harm or better chance of than the one mighty blow of a two-handed weapon when magical defenses are in the picture(backbiter).



Warning: There are also a number of effects that hurt the attacker on a per-hit basis.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 30, 2012)

Jack Simth said:


> I am reasonably certain that WHW4 was referring to Mutants & Masterminds, a gaming system of its own.



oh... I interpreted that as Monster Manual.  Gotcha.


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## emoplato (Jun 30, 2012)

Jack Simth said:


> Warning: There are also a number of effects that hurt the attacker on a per-hit basis.



Yes, but those defenses aren't likely to kill one hit, like backbiter. A lot of them are elemental in nature. Totemists can rock energy resistance. Even if they aren't one can choose whether or not to stop when the DM announces damage rolls against you.


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