# Special Conversion Thread:  Microscopic Monsters



## Shade (Dec 27, 2010)

This special conversion thread exists to convert the many creatures from the article "Microscopic monsters: When they get bigger, they get a lot tougher" from Dragon Magazine #111.

From the introduction to the article:

"One productive source of new monsters may be literally found underfoot. Single-celled plants and animals have a variety of bizarre properties which are ideally suited to the AD&D® game. Many of these creatures also have the virtue of living in water, a habitat which is particularly neglected in the available monster collections.

There are two ways to bring these monsters into play. The first is to shrink the characters to a very small size by magical means. Note that the characters must shrink to a fraction of an inch before a single-celled creature becomes much of a threat. This requires a shrinking spell of exceptional power.

The second, and I think more interesting, way to bring the monsters into play is by enlarging them (this is assumed in the descriptions given below). A high-powered enlarge spell cast on murky pond water would do the trick. More systematic enlargement of the cells might be undertaken by a powerful magic-user, human or otherwise, who would use the cells for some purpose."


We'll get to this guy later, but I wanted to post his basic description as he's mentioned elsewhere throughout the article:

"Protiston (as it was named by the mage who discovered it) began as a simple collection of single-celled creatures in a large body of water, such as a sea or an ocean. At some some point in the distant past, Protiston became so large and complex that it acquired intelligence, and slowly thereafter gained magical skills. Being of such an alien intelligence, Protiston has no understanding at all of “normal” human thought, and regards everything around it as either a food source or “hostile environment” to be overcome and destroyed. No one knows for sure, but the chaotic evil alignment detected from Protiston may stem from either Protiston’s innate disregard for all other forms of life, or from some form of association with the demon prince Juiblex (which might explain how Protiston gained spellcasting abilities). Little else is known of this being’s origins or intent, save that it wishes to “eat” the entire world or shape it to benefit itself. Few beings are even aware that this creature exists, and few who have found it have lived to tell about it later.

As presently constituted, Protiston inhabits the interior of a large coral atoll (or a calm, shoreline cavern, if placed in an inland sea by the DM). Numerous support colonies of amoebae may be found around it. Although a single thought in Protiston’s “mind” may take anywhere from a few seconds to a few weeks to complete, Protiston is highly intelligent and has gained the powers of a 12th-level magic-user, being able to cast spells like push, shield, continual darkness/light, ray of enfeeblement, stinking cloud (above water), hold person, protection from normal missiles, slow, hallucinatory terrain, plant growth, cloudkill (above water), hold monster, telekinesis, transmute rock to mud, and control weather. Other spells may be possible, but no spell will be used that involves fire or that considers other beings to be intelligent (such as charm spells). Select Protiston’s spells as if it were the only intelligent being around, and everything it might encounter was a mindless food source or part of the environment.

In addition to spell-casting abilities, Protiston is somehow able to magically or biologically increase the size of single-celled creatures, using these creatures as guards and helpers. Note that among these creatures, only Protiston is evil. The others are all neutral and unintelligent, and work to Protiston's advantage only according to circumstances."


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## Shade (Dec 27, 2010)

*DINOFLAGELLATES*
The dinoflagellates are a very peculiar group of one-celled organisms which are generally classified with the plants. Most of them are capable of engulfing food particles, however, and some have completely lost their brown pigment and survive only by scavenging or predation.

Among the things which unite the group, one of the most striking is the presence of two thin whiplike organs, or flagella. One rings the central body of the organism like a belt, and is equipped with numerous tiny hairs which beat constantly. The other is long and slender, extending far beyond the organism’s posterior, and beats in a wavelike motion. The combined action of the flagella causes the cell to spin on its axis while moving rapidly through the water.

In many members of the group, reproduction is triggered by an environmental change (generally a decrease in nutrients, light intensity, or temperature). The swimming cells pair off, fuse, and form spiny, thick-walled cysts that settle to the bottom of whatever body of water they inhabit.  After an appropriate period of dormancy (generally a few months, but as much as a few years), environmental changes of the opposite sort will trigger the release of the cysts’ contents, which then grow flagella, begin dividing, and start the life cycle anew. A clever (and powerful) magic-user could exploit this life cycle by artificially inducing cyst formation (using a cold- or darkness-causing spell, for example). In the cyst stage, the cells can be removed from the water and transported for considerable distances.

Three of the four types of dinoflagellates listed here form cysts (Peridinium, Ceratium, and Gonyaulax). Another interesting property of some dinoflagellates is bioluminescence. They give off light which is concentrated into a brilliant flash, used to startle potential predators (and, in this context, unwary adventurers). One cell is capable of producing a flash every 5-10 melee rounds. Peridinium, Gonyaulax, and Noctiluca all are capable of producing such flashes, with those produced by Noctiluca being particularly potent.


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## Shade (Dec 27, 2010)

*Peridinium, Small *
FREQUENCY: Common 
NO. APP.: 2-12
ARMOR CLASS: 7
MOVE: 12”
HIT DICE: 1
% IN LAIR: 0
TREAS. TYPE: Nil
NO. ATT.: 1-3
DAM/ATT.: 1-4
SPEC. ATT.: See below
SPEC. DEF.: Flash
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S
PSIONIC ABIL.: Nil

*Peridinium, Medium* 
FREQUENCY: Uncommon 
NO. APP.: 1-6
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVE: 12”
HIT DICE: 2-3
% IN LAIR: 0
TREAS. TYPE: Nil
NO. ATT.: 1-6
DAM/ATT.: 1-4
SPEC. ATT.: See below
SPEC. DEF.: Flash
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: M
PSIONIC ABIL.: Nil

*Peridinium, Large* 
FREQUENCY: Very rare
NO. APP.: 1-2
ARMOR CLASS: 2
MOVE: 16”
HIT DICE: 5-8
% IN LAIR: 0
TREAS. TYPE: See below
NO. ATT.: 2-8
DAM/ATT.: 1-4
SPEC. ATT.: See below
SPEC. DEF.: Flash
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: L
PSIONIC ABIL.: Nil

Peridinium is a type of armored dinoflagellate covered with thick plates. Only the region from which the flagella arise is not covered, and should be treated as AC 9 (note that the rotation of the cell makes it difficult to aim at this particular spot, so the armor classes given above must be used).

Small pores extend through the individual plates. Within each pore is a single trichocyst, a projectile which for present purposes  can be treated like a crossbow bolt. Although each pore has but a single projectile (these are replaced by new growth within a few hours), the rotation of the cell as it swims through the water constantly brings new pores into the line of fire. Small cells can fire up to 40 trichocysts, treated like light crossbow bolts with close range up to 10., medium 11-20., and long 2l-30.. Medium-sized cells have 60 trichocysts (ranges 0-15., 16-30., and 31-45., while the largest forms can have more than 100 trichocysts (ranges 0-30., 31-60., and 61-90.).

Peridinium may produce its flash response as other creatures approach, but will definitely flash when struck. A character within 10’ of the cell must make a saving throw vs. spells or be blinded for 2-7 rounds, in addition to dropping any weapons in hand unless an additional saving throw vs. breath weapon (with dexterity bonuses) is made. Characters 10-30’ from the cell who fail their saving throw are startled for one round (no attacks allowed), and must also save again (same throw) to see if their weapons are dropped. For medium-sized cells, the saving throw has a penalty of -1, for large cells -2.

The cells occur in both salt and fresh water, and are most common in relatively clear water in the tropics. They survive primarily by photosynthesis, and will eventually die (or form cysts) if kept in the dark.

Legend has it that Protiston keeps unknown treasures within a large Peridinium, which swims in an elaborate pattern through the water of the lair, making the precise location of the treasure very difficult for “food sources”(adventurers) to discover. For added protection, eight medium-sized Peridinium swim in formation around the treasure cell, with swarms of small Peridinium and Ceratium around as well.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111  (1986).


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## Cleon (Dec 29, 2010)

Vermin I 'd say, probably blind.

I see little reason not to stat this as a single monster and have the Advancement cover three size categories.

The listed no. of attacks and 1-4 damage are with the trichocysts, presumably.

Do we have the damage increase with size, or just give them more shots as they increase in size like the original?


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## Mortis (Dec 29, 2010)

Its funny seeing this thread. I was thinking the other day of a template that does the opposite of the Mystaran Gargantua template - I was going to call the template Mystaran Diminutea.

I may still get around to doing it though.

Regards
Mortis


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## Shade (Dec 30, 2010)

Cleon said:


> Vermin I 'd say, probably blind.




Agreed.



Cleon said:


> I see little reason not to stat this as a single monster and have the Advancement cover three size categories.




Agreed again.



Cleon said:


> The listed no. of attacks and 1-4 damage are with the trichocysts, presumably.




I think so.



Cleon said:


> Do we have the damage increase with size, or just give them more shots as they increase in size like the original?




Both, perhaps?  It would seem odd for the damage to not increase, since they are treated as crossbow bolts, which do greater damage at larger sizes.



Mortis said:


> Its funny seeing this thread. I was thinking the other day of a template that does the opposite of the Mystaran Gargantua template - I was going to call the template Mystaran Diminutea.
> 
> I may still get around to doing it though.




That sounds like fun.


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## Cleon (Dec 30, 2010)

Shade said:


> Both, perhaps?  It would seem odd for the damage to not increase, since they are treated as crossbow bolts, which do greater damage at larger sizes.




I prefer both too. Will we have the number of ranged attacks vary with Hit Dice?


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## Shade (Dec 30, 2010)

Cleon said:


> I prefer both too. Will we have the number of ranged attacks vary with Hit Dice?




I'd set it by size...simpler to adjudicate.


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## Cleon (Dec 31, 2010)

Shade said:


> I'd set it by size...simpler to adjudicate.




There you go again, have you no love for complexity?

What do you think of the idea of making most of these critters Oozes rather than Vermin? They're far more simpler forms of life than insects and arachnids.

Is there any creature you'd like to base the stats on (We could treat them as an Ochre in an armour suit, for example), or shall we build them from scratch?


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## Shade (Jan 4, 2011)

Cleon said:


> There you go again, have you no love for complexity?




As someone who ran an epic level campaign for several years, I have plenty of love for complexity.     I'd just rather keep the basics simple, and make it as complex as I'd like with liberal doses of templates, prestige classes, and the like.



Cleon said:


> What do you think of the idea of making most of these critters Oozes rather than Vermin? They're far more simpler forms of life than insects and arachnids.




I'm not feeling it.  While it makes sense scientifically, they just don't strike me as oozes in the 3.5 game mechanics sense of the term.



Cleon said:


> Is there any creature you'd like to base the stats on (We could treat them as an Ochre in an armour suit, for example), or shall we build them from scratch?




Let's build 'em from scratch.  The first ones will be the most difficult, as we can use them as building blocks for the later ones.


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## Cleon (Jan 4, 2011)

Shade said:


> As someone who ran an epic level campaign for several years, I have plenty of love for complexity.     I'd just rather keep the basics simple, and make it as complex as I'd like with liberal doses of templates, prestige classes, and the like.




Running an Epic Level campaign for several is evidence for masochism, not a love of complexity. 



Shade said:


> I'm not feeling it.  While it makes sense scientifically, they just don't strike me as oozes in the 3.5 game mechanics sense of the term.




What about them seems "unoozie", if you'll pardon the expression? There are some pretty peculiar Oozes in official sources.



Shade said:


> Let's build 'em from scratch.  The first ones will be the most difficult, as we can use them as building blocks for the later ones.




Okie-dokey.

If we're following the original it'll be easier doing separate stats for the Small/Medium/Large ones like we did for the Stone Spirits.


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## Shade (Jan 5, 2011)

After giving this more thought, ooze probably is a good fit.   The amoebic crawler from Dragon Magazine #330 solidified it for me.



			
				Cleon said:
			
		

> If we're following the original it'll be easier doing separate stats for the Small/Medium/Large ones like we did for the Stone Spirits.




Yeah, probably so.


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## freyar (Jan 5, 2011)

I still think we can get away with a single stat block with an underbar noting the extra "bolts" at different sizes.  Is there really any other nonstandard advancement?


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## Shade (Jan 5, 2011)

freyar said:


> I still think we can get away with a single stat block with an underbar noting the extra "bolts" at different sizes.  Is there really any other nonstandard advancement?




Probably not.  Let's try it that way and see if the need persists for separate statblocks.


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## Cleon (Jan 7, 2011)

Shade said:


> After giving this more thought, ooze probably is a good fit.   The amoebic crawler from Dragon Magazine #330 solidified it for me.






Shade said:


> Probably not.  Let's try it that way and see if the need persists for separate statblocks.




Okay, let's start on a Small one and see how it goes.

I'll start by using a Grey Ooze's stats. The first issue is these are ranged attackers so ought to have higher Dex than most Ooze's have, otherwise they won't hit anything. I'll arbitrarily set its Str and Dex 10.

*Giant Peridinium, Small *
Small Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1d10+4 (9 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: Swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+1 size, +2 natural), touch 11, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-4
Attack: Trichocyst +0 ranged (1d4)
Full Attack: 2 trichocysts +0 ranged (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Blinding flash, trichocysts
Special Qualities: All-around facing, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits
Saves: Great Fortitude, Iron Will, Weapon Finesse
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 19, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Swim +8
Feats: —
Climate/Terrain: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary, colony (2-12)
Challenge Rating: 1?
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3-4 HD (Medium); 5-8 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

*All-Around Facing (Ex):* Peridinium have no "front" or "sides". They can sense and attack in all directions simultaneously and can not be flanked.

*Blinding Flash (Ex):* All creatures within 10 ft. must succeed at a DC 14 Reflex save or be blinded for 1d6+1 rounds, those that save are dazzled for 1 round instead. Creatures beyond 10 ft. but within 30 ft. must succeed at a DC 14 Reflex save or be blinded for 1 round. Once a peridinium uses blinding flash, it can't flash again until 1d4 rounds later. The save DC is Constitution-based.
*
Trichocysts (Ex):* Giant peridinium attack by firing spike-like projectiles called trichocysts from pores in their hide. A peridinium can fire multiple trichocysts as a full attack - 2 attacks for a Small peridinium, 4 attacks for a Medium peridinium and 6 attacks for a Large peridinium. Each trichocyst has a range of 30 ft. (50 ft. for a Medium peridinium, 90 ft. for Large) and does 1d4 piercing damage if it hits (1d6 for Medium, 1d8 for Large).

Peridinium have a limited supply of trichocysts; a Small peridinium typically has 40 such missiles, a Medium peridinium has 60 and a Large one has 100 trichocysts. It takes 2 hours for a peridinium to grow new trichocysts to replace any it has fired.


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## freyar (Jan 9, 2011)

Why not just give them all-around vision instead of all-around facing?  Other than that, it's pretty good.  I supposed I'd prefer listing the number, range, and damage of trichocyst attacks and total trichocysts for Medium and Large versions in an advancement underbar, but it's ok as is.


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## Shade (Jan 10, 2011)

freyar said:


> Why not just give them all-around vision instead of all-around facing?  Other than that, it's pretty good.  I supposed I'd prefer listing the number, range, and damage of trichocyst attacks and total trichocysts for Medium and Large versions in an advancement underbar, but it's ok as is.




Yep, I agree with all of that.   Facing in 3.5 = taboo.  

Oozes can't be flanked, anyway.


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## freyar (Jan 10, 2011)

Not much need for it, then.


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## Shade (Jan 11, 2011)

Added to Homebrews.


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## Cleon (Jan 11, 2011)

Shade said:


> Yep, I agree with all of that.   Facing in 3.5 = taboo.




Taboos are there to be broken!



Shade said:


> Oozes can't be flanked, anyway.




Oh yes, might as well forget about it then.

The original monster have range bands for its trichocysts, but I thought that was more trouble than they're worth. Might as well make it explicit though.

Revising...

*Trichocysts (Ex):* Giant peridinium attack by firing spike-like  projectiles called trichocysts from pores in their hide. A peridinium  can fire multiple trichocysts as a full attack. Each trichocyst has a  range of 30 ft. (no range increments) and does 1d4 points of piercing damage.


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## Shade (Jan 11, 2011)

Explicit is good  <begins work on "Creature Catalog: After Dark">  

Updated.

Organization: Solitary or colony (2–12)?

Challenge Rating: 1?

A typical giant peridinium is 4(?) feet long/in diameter and weighs about x pounds.


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## Cleon (Jan 13, 2011)

Shade said:


> Explicit is good  <begins work on "Creature Catalog: After Dark">
> 
> Updated.




Sounds like a "Specialist Interest" second volume of The Book of Erotic Fantasy... 



Shade said:


> Organization: Solitary or colony (2–12)?
> 
> Challenge Rating: 1?




Both the above are fine.



Shade said:


> A typical giant peridinium is 4(?) feet long/in diameter and weighs about x pounds.




That's too big for a Small creature. I would make the Large ones Beholder size (6-8' dia), which would mean the Medium ones are 3-4' and the Small ones 18"-2'.

Since they float in water, they must have the same density. A 2' sphere of water weighs ~260 pounds, an 18" one 110 pounds.

I'd assume the diameter includes spines and "knobbly bits", so a 2' dia specimen is roughly equal to a 18" dia sphere, and make it:

"A typical giant peridinium is 2 feet in diameter and weighs about 100 pounds, they can grow to over 6 feet across and 4,000 pounds or more in weight."


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## Shade (Jan 13, 2011)

Sounds good (except for the Erotic Fantasy bit ).  

For the tactics, are we making them aggressive, or simply firing in self-defense?   (Or, Han Solo original flavor or Special Edition?)


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## freyar (Jan 14, 2011)

Since they photosynthesize, they wouldn't be hunters, so I'd think they're not too aggressive.  Make it mostly self-defense --- unless they're manipulated/controlled by something (like that other monster mentioned in the adventure/article).


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## Cleon (Jan 15, 2011)

freyar said:


> Since they photosynthesize, they wouldn't be hunters, so I'd think they're not too aggressive.  Make it mostly self-defense --- unless they're manipulated/controlled by something (like that other monster mentioned in the adventure/article).




It says "They survive primarily by photosynthesis", but _*primarily*_ does not mean _*exclusively*_. The general information on dinoflagellants in that article says "Most of them are capable of engulfing food particles, however, and some have completely lost their brown pigment and survive only by scavenging or predation."

A *trichocyst* is a structure used to capture prey, so I think we can safely say these things are predators as well as photosynthesisers.

Now, a trichocyst is usually a filament that entangles a victim, but some bacteria shoot trichocyst filaments with sharp points to harpoon prey - the _Peridinium _we're converting seems to use those kinds of trichocyst. Should we add a "pierce and draw in" mechanism to the trichocyst to allow it to harpoon prey, keep them crossbow bolt like attacks, or add "harpoon" and "net" _Peridinium _as variants of the "bolt-thrower"?


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## freyar (Jan 17, 2011)

Eh, ok, fair enough.  We can use a draw-in mechanism if you like -- we should already have one lying around somewhere (cave fisher, I think).


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## Shade (Jan 18, 2011)

Since it actually impales, rather than relying upon adhesive, the bonespear is probably a better model than the cave fisher.

Attach (Ex): If a bonespear hits with a horn attack, the horn buries itself in its target, held in place by numerous barbs on the horn's surface. EAch round thereafter that a creature remains impaled by a horn, it takes additional horn damage automatically and incurs a cumulative -1 circumstance penalty on attack rolls, saves, and skill checks. On the bonespear's turn in subsequent rounds, it attempts to drag its prey closer (see below).

A single attack with a slashing weapon against a tendon (made as an attempt to sunder a weapon) that deals at least 15 points of damage severs a horn from its tendon. A creature impaled by a severed horn takes 1d6 points of damage per round automatically until the horn is removed. Removing a horn (a full-round action) deals 2d8 points of damage to the victim, but if the character removing the horn makes a successful Heal check (DC 20), this damage is reduced to 1d4 points.

Drag: After spearing a victim, a bonespear attempts to drag the victim closer on the bonespear's turn in each subsequent round. This activity resembles the bull rush maneuver, except that the bonespear drags its victim 10 feet closer +1 foot for each point by which its Strength check exceeds the victim's. The bonespear gains a +4 bonus on its drag check if it is set in its immobile stance. Against a Medium victim, the bonespear's Strength modifier is +10, or +14 if it is set in its stance.

A bonespear can draw in a creature from a distance of 10 feet or less and bite with a +4 bonus on its attack roll in the same round.

Horns (Ex): Most encounters with a bonespear begin when it fires its two horns. If a horn misses its intended target, it is quickly reeled in. Reeling in a horn is a full-round action. Each horn has a range of 60 feet (no range increment). A bonespear will always try to hit a single target with both horns, but is capable of attaching to two different targets at the same time.


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## Cleon (Jan 18, 2011)

Shade said:


> Since it actually impales, rather than relying upon adhesive, the bonespear is probably a better model than the cave fisher.




After mulling it over, I would rather give it "fire and forget" trichocysts like the original. If we do have a reeling-in version I'd prefer it as a subentry.

The bonespear seems a reasonable basis for the harpooning version, though.


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## Shade (Jan 18, 2011)

Cleon said:


> After mulling it over, I would rather give it "fire and forget" trichocysts like the original. If we do have a reeling-in version I'd prefer it as a subentry.




I'm perfectly content with just the "vanilla" version.


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## freyar (Jan 19, 2011)

Let's just stick with one version.  It's nice to have an easy monster for a change.  Make it like crossbows.


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## Shade (Jan 19, 2011)

In that case, we just need to piece together a tactics entry and we're finished.


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## freyar (Jan 20, 2011)

How about this?

Giant peridinia subsist primarily through photosynthesis and are therefore usually unagressive.  However, they attack immediately any creature that their primitive sensory organs recognize as prey; in nutrient-poor habitats, "prey" can mean nearly anything.


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## Cleon (Jan 20, 2011)

freyar said:


> How about this?
> 
> Giant peridinia subsist primarily through photosynthesis and are therefore usually unagressive.  However, they attack immediately any creature that their primitive sensory organs recognize as prey; in nutrient-poor habitats, "prey" can mean nearly anything.




Hmm, unaggressive creatures don't normally immediately attack every creature they see, so I would like to reword it a bit.

How about:

Giant peridinia subsist primarily through photosynthesis and do not seek out prey. However, they attack immediately should any  edible creature enter the range of their primitive sensory organs' blindsight; in  nutrient-poor habitats, "edible prey" may mean nearly anything organic.


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## Shade (Jan 21, 2011)

Looks good.  Updated.

I notice you used "peridinia" as the plural, but elsewhere we have "peridinium" as both singular and plural.  Which is correct?  Wikipedia talks about "Peridiniales".


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## freyar (Jan 21, 2011)

Urrh, maybe we should anglicize it and call them "peridiniums."   My Greek isn't all that good, but I thought you usually changed -um to -a.


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## Cleon (Jan 22, 2011)

Shade said:


> Looks good.  Updated.
> 
> I notice you used "peridinia" as the plural, but elsewhere we have "peridinium" as both singular and plural.  Which is correct?  Wikipedia talks about "Peridiniales".




We should use Peridinium for both singular and plural like in the original Dragon article usesm  since "Peridinium" is a taxonomic name so you're not supposed to change the spelling (since that would risk confusing what creature it is).

I didn't even realize I'd stuck that "Peridinia" in there. I must have stuck that spelling in automatically based on the Greek nouns that use -ia as the plural for -ium (e.g. Medium, Media).


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## Shade (Jan 24, 2011)

Updatium.

Next!

*Gonyaulax*
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
NO. APPEARING: 1000-4000
ARMOR CLASS: 7
MOVE: 12.
HIT DICE: 1
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 0
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 0
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Flash, paralytic toxin
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALLIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

The cells of Gonyaulax look similar to those of a small Peridinium, and are roughly the size of a basketball. They are not equpped with trichocysts (for game purposes), but are capable of a flash defense like that of a small Peridinium. As individuals they are relatively harmless, but in large blooms (any group of 1000 or more) they secrete enough toxin to kill water-breathing creatures that cannot escape, and will eventually deplete the oxygen in a given small body of water. The toxin causes paralysis of all muscles (including lungs and heart) if the victim does not save against it. Because the poison is so weak, it a saving throw of 2 is sufficient against it . but the save must be repeated every round, and a roll of 1, regardless of any other circumstances, is enough to cause death by drowning to helpless victims in one round.

Gonyaulax occurs in both fresh and salt water, but toxic blooms are confined to salt-water areas to which large quantities of nutrients have recently been added.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111  (1986).


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## GrayLinnorm (Jan 24, 2011)

Are basketball size creatures too big to form a swarm?


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## Shade (Jan 24, 2011)

GrayLinnorm said:


> Are basketball size creatures too big to form a swarm?




If a basketball is Tiny, then yes.



> A swarm is a collection of Fine, Diminutive, or Tiny creatures.


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## GrayLinnorm (Jan 24, 2011)

A basketball would be small.  So much for that idea.


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## Cleon (Jan 26, 2011)

GrayLinnorm said:


> Are basketball size creatures too big to form a swarm?




A basketball is under 2 feet across so I'd think a creature that big ought to be Tiny, and hence swarm-worthy.


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## Shade (Jan 26, 2011)

Let's just make 'em Tiny, as they'd make a great swarm.


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## freyar (Jan 27, 2011)

No swarm damage but distraction and exposure to the poison?


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## Shade (Jan 27, 2011)

Yeah, it sounds like contact poison.


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## Cleon (Jan 28, 2011)

freyar said:


> No swarm damage but distraction and exposure to the poison?




I'd go for 1d6 swarm damage.

Even individually harmless creatures like bats do damage in a swarm.


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## Shade (Jan 28, 2011)

Fair enough.  Added to Homebrews.

Let's work on the poison...



> As individuals they are relatively harmless, but in large blooms (any group of 1000 or more) they secrete enough toxin to kill water-breathing creatures that cannot escape, and will eventually deplete the oxygen in a given small body of water. The toxin causes paralysis of all muscles (including lungs and heart) if the victim does not save against it. Because the poison is so weak, it a saving throw of 2 is sufficient against it . but the save must be repeated every round, and a roll of 1, regardless of any other circumstances, is enough to cause death by drowning to helpless victims in one round.




Per Wikipedia:  They produce a potent toxin known as Saxitoxin which affects nerve impulses and can lead to paralysis of muscles and may eventually end in asphyxiation.


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## Cleon (Jan 29, 2011)

Shade said:


> Fair enough.  Added to Homebrews.




Strength 10 is way too high. I suggest Str 2.

Are we doing an individual version too? Something like:

*Giant Gonyaulax*
Tiny Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1/2d10 (2 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: Swim 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 13 (+2 size, +1 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-8
Attack: —
Full Attack: —
Space/Reach: 2 1/5 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Blinding flash, poison
Special Qualities: Blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits
Saves: Fort +3, Ref +0, Will -5
Abilities: Str 2, Dex 10, Con 10, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Swim +8
Feats: —
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary, cluster (2-20) or bloom (20-400)
Challenge Rating: x
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

The 1/2 HD Tiny version is based on the 1 HD Small sample in the original.

A swarm of Gonyaulax ought to have more than 1 Hit Dice if an individual has 1 (or 1/2) HD. How about 13 Hit Dice, for the sake of argument?



Shade said:


> Let's work on the poison...
> 
> Per Wikipedia:  They produce a potent toxin known as Saxitoxin which affects nerve impulses and can lead to paralysis of muscles and may eventually end in asphyxiation.




I would have it do initial Dexterity damage and secondary Constitution damage. The original version only affects water breathing creatures, but that means it's harmless to typical air breathing adventures. I suggest making it Contact/Inhaled.

Say, an individual Gonyaulax's poison is only strong enough to affect a creature in the same square as it:
*Poison:* Gonyaulax produce a cloud of poison, any creature in the water that occupies the same 5 ft. square as a Gonyaulax is exposed to its poison.

_Gonyaulax poison_—Contact/inhaled poison, Fort DC 6, initial damage 1 Dex, secondary damage 1 Con, the save DC is Constitution-based and includes a -4 racial penalty).​A swarm poisons the water within, say, a 30 ft. range, for 1d6 damage? 
*Poison:* Gonyaulax swarms produce a cloud of poison, any creature in the water within 30 ft. of a Gonyaulax swarm is exposed to its poison.

_Gonyaulax swarm poison_—Contact/inhaled poison, Fort DC 12, initial  damage 1d6 Dex, secondary damage 1d6 Con, the save DC is Constitution-based  and includes a -4 racial penalty).​ The DC assumes we make the swarm 13 Hit Dice like I suggested.


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## freyar (Jan 29, 2011)

Hmm, I think I'd make the secondary damage a few rounds of paralysis and note that an air-breathing creature paralyzed under water can start to drown.  EDIT: unless that makes it too strong.  Hmmm.


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## Cleon (Jan 30, 2011)

freyar said:


> Hmm, I think I'd make the secondary damage a few rounds of paralysis and note that an air-breathing creature paralyzed under water can start to drown.  EDIT: unless that makes it too strong.  Hmmm.




I'd rather have the paralysis be due to cumulative Dexterity damage. Maybe make the Dex damage higher than the Con damage, or have the secondary damage Dex plus Con.

e.g.:
*Poison:*  Gonyaulax produce a cloud of poison, any creature in the water that  occupies the same 5 ft. square as a Gonyaulax is exposed to its poison.

_Gonyaulax poison_—Contact/inhaled  poison, Fort DC 6, initial damage 1d3 Dex, secondary damage 1 Dex and 1 Con, the  save DC is Constitution-based and includes a -4 racial penalty).​ *Poison:*  Gonyaulax swarms produce a cloud of poison, any creature in the water  within 30 ft. of a Gonyaulax swarm is exposed to its poison.

_Gonyaulax swarm poison_—Contact/inhaled  poison, Fort DC 12, initial  damage 1d6 Dex, secondary damage 1d3 Dex and 1d3 Con,  the save DC is Constitution-based  and includes a -4 racial penalty).​I like that better than the original draft.


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## freyar (Jan 31, 2011)

Frankly, I'd rather do all Dex and no Con.  Both the original monster and wikipedia say paralysis, which is all a Dex thing.  So how about 1d3 Dex/1d3 Dex for the individual and 1d6 Dex/1d6 Dex for the swarm?  And we just have to call it saxitoxin, since it has a real name.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 1, 2011)

freyar said:


> Frankly, I'd rather do all Dex and no Con.  Both the original monster and wikipedia say paralysis, which is all a Dex thing.  So how about 1d3 Dex/1d3 Dex for the individual and 1d6 Dex/1d6 Dex for the swarm?  And we just have to call it saxitoxin, since it has a real name.




But it doesn't _just_ paralyze, it kills too. Also, this poison kills aquatic lifeforms, not just airbreathers who drown while paralyzed.

We could add a "special effect" that breathing creatures who are paralyzed by the toxin will start to suffocate. That would be the closest to the real-world mechanism of the poison, but just having it do Con damage seemed simpler.


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## freyar (Feb 2, 2011)

Hmm, I think I prefer saying that critters reduced to Dex 0 begin to suffocate (maybe give them Con checks).  That's what both the original monster and wikipedia imply, I think.  Or we could just add that victims reduced to Dex 0 die.  There are poisons and/or diseases that work like that.


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## Cleon (Feb 3, 2011)

freyar said:


> Hmm, I think I prefer saying that critters reduced to Dex 0 begin to suffocate (maybe give them Con checks).  That's what both the original monster and wikipedia imply, I think.  Or we could just add that victims reduced to Dex 0 die.  There are poisons and/or diseases that work like that.




Of those I prefer suffocation with Con checks. Maybe allow Heal checks to keep the victim breathing?


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## Shade (Feb 4, 2011)

freyar said:


> Hmm, I think I prefer saying that critters reduced to Dex 0 begin to suffocate (maybe give them Con checks).  That's what both the original monster and wikipedia imply, I think.  Or we could just add that victims reduced to Dex 0 die.  There are poisons and/or diseases that work like that.




Agreed.  No Con damage.



Cleon said:


> Of those I prefer suffocation with Con checks. Maybe allow Heal checks to keep the victim breathing?




While I'm not adamantly opposed to the Heal check, I don't think it's necessary.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 4, 2011)

Shade said:


> Agreed.  No Con damage.
> 
> While I'm not adamantly opposed to the Heal check, I don't think it's necessary.




So just default to the standard Heal checks to treat poison, then?

If I understand things right, the current proposal might look something like:*Poison #1:*  Gonyaulax produce a cloud of poison, any  creature in the water that  occupies the same 5 ft. square as a  Gonyaulax is exposed to its poison.

_Gonyaulax poison_—Contact/inhaled   poison, Fort DC 6, initial damage 1 Dex, secondary damage 1 Dex. If the poison reduces a victim's Dexterity to 0 the victim starts to suffocate and must make Constitution checks every round to avoid drowning (DC 10 plus 1 per round). The  save DC is Constitution-based and includes a -4 racial  penalty.

*Poison:*  Gonyaulax swarms produce a cloud of poison, any creature  in the water  within 30 ft. of a Gonyaulax swarm is exposed to its  poison.

_Gonyaulax swarm poison_—Contact/inhaled   poison, Fort DC 12, initial damage 1d6 Dex, secondary damage 1d6 Dex.  If the poison reduces a victim's Dexterity to 0 the victim starts to  suffocate and must make Constitution checks every round to avoid  drowning (DC 10 plus 1 per round). The  save DC is Constitution-based  and includes a -4 racial  penalty.​Hmm, maybe it would work better to modify the rules for Slow Suffocation. I'd change the 1d6 per 15 minutes to 1d6 per minute:*Poison:*  Gonyaulax produce a cloud of poison, any  creature in the water that  occupies the same 5 ft. square as a  Gonyaulax is exposed to its poison.

_ Gonyaulax poison_—Contact/inhaled   poison, Fort DC 6, initial damage 1 Dex, secondary damage 1. If the  poison reduces a victim's Dexterity to 0 the victim starts to die from slow suffocation, taking 1d6 nonlethal damage every minute, characters who fall unconscious drop to -1 hit points and are dying, then suffocate to death the next round. The  save DC is Constitution-based and includes a -4  racial  penalty.​The _Gonyaulax swarm poison_ is the same except its 1d6/1d6 damage Dex with DC12.


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## Shade (Feb 7, 2011)

The slow suffocation does seem less cruel.  But is that a good thing?


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## freyar (Feb 8, 2011)

Slow suffocation might drag out the tension a bit longer if they have trouble beating the poison.  And it befits a low-CR critter.  Let's go with the 2nd version.


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## Cleon (Feb 9, 2011)

freyar said:


> Slow suffocation might drag out the tension a bit longer if they have trouble beating the poison.  And it befits a low-CR critter.  Let's go with the 2nd version.




That's my favourite amongst the options.


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## Shade (Feb 9, 2011)

I'm a bit confused.  

Is it option #2 for the swarm, and #3 for an individual?  Or should #2 be modified to include the slow suffocation as well?


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## Cleon (Feb 10, 2011)

Shade said:


> I'm a bit confused.
> 
> Is it option #2 for the swarm, and #3 for an individual?  Or should #2 be modified to include the slow suffocation as well?




The "Slow Suffocation" write up was for an individual, but just needs a few changes for a swarm, eg...

*Individual Gonyaulax:*

*Poison:*  Gonyaulax produce a cloud of poison, any  creature in  the water that  occupies the same 5 ft. square as a  Gonyaulax is  exposed to its poison.

_ Gonyaulax poison_—Contact/inhaled    poison, Fort DC 6, initial damage 1 Dex, secondary damage 1 Dex. If the   poison reduces a victim's Dexterity to 0 the victim starts to die from  slow suffocation, taking 1d6 nonlethal damage every minute, characters  who fall unconscious drop to -1 hit points and are dying, then suffocate  to death the next round. The  save DC is Constitution-based and  includes a -4  racial  penalty.

*Gonyaulax swarm:*

*Poison:*  Gonyaulax swarms produce a cloud of poison, any creature  in the water   within 30 ft. of a Gonyaulax swarm is exposed to its  poison.

_ Gonyaulax swarm poison_—Contact/inhaled    poison, Fort DC 12, initial damage 1d6 Dex, secondary damage 1d6 Dex. If the   poison reduces a victim's Dexterity to 0 the victim starts to die from  slow suffocation, taking 1d6 nonlethal damage every minute, characters  who fall unconscious drop to -1 hit points and are dying, then suffocate  to death the next round. The  save DC is Constitution-based and  includes a -4  racial  penalty.


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## Shade (Feb 10, 2011)

OK, thanks!

Updated.

I'm thinking we need to boost the HD for the swarm.  It's too close to an individual.   Bat swarms have 3 HD...how about boosting this likewise?


----------



## Cleon (Feb 10, 2011)

Shade said:


> OK, thanks!
> 
> Updated.
> 
> I'm thinking we need to boost the HD for the swarm.  It's too close to an individual.   Bat swarms have 3 HD...how about boosting this likewise?




Ahem...



Cleon said:


> A swarm of Gonyaulax ought to have more than 1 Hit Dice if an individual  has 1 (or 1/2) HD. How about 13 Hit Dice, for the sake of argument?
> 
> *SNIP*
> 
> The DC assumes we make the swarm 13 Hit Dice like I suggested.




 Also, I suggested the individuals Gonyaulax have:



Cleon said:


> Are we doing an individual version too? Something like:
> 
> *Giant Gonyaulax*
> Tiny Ooze (Aquatic)
> ...


----------



## Shade (Feb 10, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Ahem...




Much better.  



Cleon said:


> Also, I suggested the individuals Gonyaulax have:




Got those already.  Scroll to the bottom of the swarm entry.


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## Cleon (Feb 11, 2011)

Shade said:


> Much better.




Not much needs changing for a 13 dice version:

 Hit Dice: 13d10 (71 hp)
Saves: Fort +8, Ref +3, Will -2

The swarm damage is rather low for a 13 HD swarm, but they mainly kill their enemies with their poison so I have no problem with that.



Shade said:


> Got those already.  Scroll to the bottom of the swarm entry.




I don't remember that being there. You didn't slip it in behind my back , did you?


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## Shade (Feb 11, 2011)

Cleon said:


> I don't remember that being there. You didn't slip it in behind my back , did you?




My moniker is "Shade"...what do you expect?  

Updated.


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## Cleon (Feb 12, 2011)

Shade said:


> My moniker is "Shade"...what do you expect?
> 
> Updated.




A cool site to spurn the searing sun, of course. 

The Swarm should have Reach 0.

The Swarm still have a 1HD creature's Distraction and Blinding Flash DC, both should increase to DC 16.

A 1-foot sphere of water weighs ~32 pounds, call it 10-30 pounds for a Gonyaulax?


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## Shade (Feb 14, 2011)

Updated.


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## Cleon (Feb 15, 2011)

Shade said:


> Updated.




OK, all they need is a CR and we can call it a day.

Challenge Rating 6 for the Swarm and 1/6 for the individual?


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## Shade (Feb 15, 2011)

Sounds good.  Updated.

*Ceratium*
FREQUENCY: Common
NO. APPEARING: 2-12
ARMOR CLASS: 6
MOVE: 15.
HIT DICE: 1-2
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 2-5
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Ceratium is an armored dinoflagellate with an extended point ornamented with sharp ridges. It attacks with its point, while the rotation of the cell causes the point to twist much like a drill. The twisting motion is highly effective at penetrating armor lighter than chain mail ( + 2 to hit vs. AC 6 on up to AC 10). In contrast, this “drill” is relatively easy to deflect by a shield held at an angle to the attack, and thus attacks at a -3 to hit against all shield-using opponents.  These two modifiers are cumulative. Ceratium will easily slash through nets on a roll of 1-5 (d6). These cells occur in both fresh and salt water.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


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## freyar (Feb 16, 2011)

Ok, that's interesting.  I can't think of anything in 3.X that works like that weapon.  Can either of you?


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## Shade (Feb 16, 2011)

freyar said:


> Ok, that's interesting.  I can't think of anything in 3.X that works like that weapon.  Can either of you?




Not off the top of my head.

It sounds like piercing damage, at the very least.


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## Cleon (Feb 16, 2011)

Shade said:


> Not off the top of my head.
> 
> It sounds like piercing damage, at the very least.




It seems closest to a Gore natural weapon. Do we want to bother with the special penetration rules? It seems counter to 3E's ethos.

Statwise, I think we can modify the Peridinium.

With its speed of 15" the Ceratium is 3" faster (= 40 ft. swim?), and its AC is one better. I'm tempted to give it Dex 12-13 to account for that, since I don't see anything to suggest its better armoured than a Peridinium.

Do you want to give it a +1 Strength bonus and a 1d4 attack or a 1d6 attack and Str 10 like a Peridinium?


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## freyar (Feb 17, 2011)

Let's do a +1 Str bonus and 1d4 attack for variety.

I don't know what to do about the natural weapon, really.  The funny penetration bit is its schtick, but I agree that it runs counter to 3E principles.  One thing that seems viable would be to let it get +Dex and +Str on the attack bonus or something.  I just don't know.


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## Shade (Feb 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> Let's do a +1 Str bonus and 1d4 attack for variety.




That works for me.



freyar said:


> I don't know what to do about the natural weapon, really.  The funny penetration bit is its schtick, but I agree that it runs counter to 3E principles.  One thing that seems viable would be to let it get +Dex and +Str on the attack bonus or something.  I just don't know.




_Dungeonscape_ has drills in the new equipment.  Essentially, they just ignore hardness of certain types of materials and create holes through which a Listen or Spot check can be made (with penalties).

I suppose we could treat it a bit like a harpoon (If it deals damage, the harpoon lodges in an opponent who fails a Reflex saving throw of DC 10 + the damage dealt: TThe harpooned creature can pull the harpoon from its wound if it has two free hands and takes a full-round action to do so, but it deals damage to itself equal to the initial damage the harpoon dealt. A character who succeeds on a DC 15 Heal check can remove a harpoon without further damage.)


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## freyar (Feb 18, 2011)

While a drill has the same flavor in some sense, it's just not a good analogy mechanically.  I unfortunatey don't like the harpoon either, since it leaves the critter stuck to the victim.  Just thinking: what if we give it something like a duelist's precise strike (some extra damage) vs opponents in light or no armor and w/o shields?  We can remove some restrictions if you like.


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## Shade (Feb 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> While a drill has the same flavor in some sense, it's just not a good analogy mechanically.  I unfortunatey don't like the harpoon either, since it leaves the critter stuck to the victim.  Just thinking: what if we give it something like a duelist's precise strike (some extra damage) vs opponents in light or no armor and w/o shields?  We can remove some restrictions if you like.




Neat idea.     I'm all for it!


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## freyar (Feb 19, 2011)

Something like this?

Penetrating Strike (Ex): The twisting motion of a ceratium's gore attack allows it to penetrate light armors, striking with extra force.  A ceratium that hits a creature with no or light armor deals an extra +X hp of damage.  The attack cannot penetrate medium or heavy armor and is easily deflected by a shield, so opponents using shields or medium or heavy armor do not take the extra damage when hit.

X could be +1d6 or +1d4 along the lines of the duelist or just +1x or 2xStr, as we like.  Let's also see whether Cleon likes the idea at all.


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## Cleon (Feb 20, 2011)

freyar said:


> Let's do a +1 Str bonus and 1d4 attack for variety.




That's fine by me.



freyar said:


> Something like this?
> 
> Penetrating Strike (Ex): The twisting motion of a ceratium's gore attack allows it to penetrate light armors, striking with extra force.  A ceratium that hits a creature with no or light armor deals an extra +X hp of damage.  The attack cannot penetrate medium or heavy armor and is easily deflected by a shield, so opponents using shields or medium or heavy armor do not take the extra damage when hit.
> 
> X could be +1d6 or +1d4 along the lines of the duelist or just +1x or 2xStr, as we like.  Let's also see whether Cleon likes the idea at all.




I like the Penetrating Strike a lot! Make it double damage (triple on a critical). Hmm, maybe it does triple damage on ALL criticals (e.g. including heavier armours and shields), since it happens to find a weak spot or gap to drill through?

Also, since we're going for a "Rapier Microbe" I think we should give it Weapon Finesse!

Hmm, I think we've got enough for a Working Draft based on the Peridinium. How's this?:

*Ceratium, Giant*
Small Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1d10+4 (9 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: Swim 40 ft. (8 squares)
Armor Class: 14 (+1 size, +1 Dex, +2 natural), touch 12, flat-footed 13
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-3
Attack: Gore +2 melee (1d4+1/×3)
Full Attack: Gore +2 melee (1d4+1/×3)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Penetrating strike
Special Qualities: Blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits
Saves: Fort +4, Ref +1, Will -5
Abilities: Str 12, Dex 12, Con 19, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Swim +9
Feats: Weapon Finesse (B)
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary or pair
Challenge Rating: 1/2 ?
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3-4 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —

*Penetrating Strike (Ex):* The twisting motion of a ceratium's gore attack  allows it to penetrate light armors, striking with extra force.  A  ceratium that hits a creature with no or light armor deals double damage (2d4+2), or triple damage (3d4+3) on a confirmed critical.  The attack cannot penetrate medium or heavy armor and is  easily deflected by a shield, so opponents using shields or medium or  heavy armor do not take the extra damage when hit.


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## Shade (Feb 21, 2011)

Lookin' good!

Added to Homebrews.


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## Cleon (Feb 22, 2011)

Shade said:


> Lookin' good!
> 
> Added to Homebrews.




Not that happy with the tactics writeup. Should we be using "apical"?

How's this:

Giant ceratium are photosynthetic, but hunt smaller aquatic organisms to supplement this diet of sunlight. Ceratium rotate their bodies to twist their protruding spike into prey, creating a drill-like gore attack.

Same size and weight as a Small Peridinium? (2 ft. diameter and 100 pounds)


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## Shade (Feb 23, 2011)

I like that better.  Updated.

CR 1?  With a fast swim speed, the potential to deal up to 15 points of damage, and oozlike immunities, I think they definitely exceed 1/2.

In other words, this thing would own an orc warrior.


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## freyar (Feb 24, 2011)

Yes to CR 1.  It looks good!


----------



## Cleon (Feb 25, 2011)

Shade said:


> I like that better.  Updated.
> 
> CR 1?  With a fast swim speed, the potential to deal up to 15 points of damage, and oozlike immunities, I think they definitely exceed 1/2.
> 
> In other words, this thing would own an orc warrior.




I disagree.

The SRD orc warrior can potentially deal 24 points of damage with a falchion and its average damage with that weapon is 9 hit points - as many as the Ceratium has. The Orc also has a better attack modifier and a ranged weapon.

Thus, the Ceratium will typically need to hit an Orc Warrior twice to take one down, the Orc Warrior usually only needs one hit against the Ceratium.

The only Ooze immunity that's of much consequence to the Orc is its immunity to criticals.

They still look like a 1/2 to me.


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## Shade (Feb 28, 2011)

That orc had better be a good swimmer!

Although I still think CR 1/2 is far too low, I'll concede, as the bloobloater ooze in the Fiend Folio is only CR 1, and has 1 more Hit Die and blood drain.

Updated.   Next!

*Noctiluca*
FREQUENCY: Rare
NO. APPEARING: 2-10
ARMOR CLASS: 8
MOVE: 9.
HIT DICE: 2-5
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAMAGE/ATTACK: See below
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Flash
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: M
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Unlike the other dinoflagellates listed above, Noctiluca is not armored. It is incapable of photosynthesis, and survives by capturing other organisms with its tentacle and ingesting them. The tentacle will not damage an adventurer, unless it wraps around his throat (roll of 1 on d8), in which case it does 2-7 hp damage. Once ingested (which takes 3-5 rounds), a character suffers 1-3 hp damage per round until rescued or slam.

Noctiluca has a very potent flash, capable of blinding a character within 20’ for 5-15 rounds unless a saving throw vs. spells is made at -3. A blinded character will automatically drop any weapons in hand. A character making the saving throw will be startled for one round and must save vs. breath weapon (with dexterity bonuses) orldrop his weapons. At a range of 20-80’, a failure to save vs. spells (at -2) will produce a two-round startle response, with an additional throw against dropping weapons. Note that any characters which have been ingested will also be affected by any flashes made.

This cell is able to grasp a heavily armored character (AC 5 or better) with its tentacle on a roll of 13, lightly- armored characters (AC 6 to AC 8) on a roll of 14, and those without armor on a roll of 15. Shields place a -1 penalty on these attacks, but the cell attacks blinded characters at an additional +3 to hit, and startled characters at +2.

Noctiluca has only one very small flagellum, and moves by flailing its tentacle or grasping the bottom. It has a large eye spot and is able to detect changes in light and dark. It is only found in salt water, most commonly in the tropics.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


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## freyar (Mar 4, 2011)

Uhh, attach and constrict?


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## Cleon (Mar 7, 2011)

freyar said:


> Uhh, attach and constrict?




Sounds reasonable.

"Ingestion" suggests an Engulf or Swallow Whole attack.


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## freyar (Mar 7, 2011)

Yes, I think probably swallow whole.


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## Cleon (Mar 8, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes, I think probably swallow whole.




Agreed, Swallow Whole is a better fit for a grab/constrict monster.


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## Shade (Mar 8, 2011)

Suggested ability scores?


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## freyar (Mar 11, 2011)

I guess start at 2HD and let the "2-5" listed be part of the advancement range.  They're Medium and decent grapplers, I guess, so probably Str 13-16.  Con is probaby pretty good to make the flash so potent.  How about

Str 15, Dex 10, Con 22, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1, NA +2?


----------



## Cleon (Mar 11, 2011)

freyar said:


> I guess start at 2HD and let the "2-5" listed be part of the advancement range.  They're Medium and decent grapplers, I guess, so probably Str 13-16.  Con is probaby pretty good to make the flash so potent.  How about
> 
> Str 15, Dex 10, Con 22, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 1, NA +2?




I'd be game for increasing its Strength a bit.

The Ceratium we did was Small and Str 12, Dex 12, Con 19, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1.

If we apply normal Small => Medium Advancement to that we get Str 16, Dex 10, Con 21, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1.

Since the Noctiluca's a grappler, I'd increase the Str and Con up a point, which would give:

*Noctiluca:* Str 17, Dex 10, Con 22, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1, NA +2 ?


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## Shade (Mar 11, 2011)

I like those scores.


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## Cleon (Mar 12, 2011)

Shade said:


> I like those scores.




Might as well plug them in then and see what we've got left.


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## Shade (Mar 14, 2011)

Added to Homebrews.



> It has a large eye spot and is able to detect changes in light and dark.




Hmm...still blind?

It is only found in salt water, most commonly in the tropics.


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## Cleon (Mar 14, 2011)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews.
> 
> Hmm...still blind?
> 
> It is only found in salt water, most commonly in the tropics.




Good catch.

Shall we exchange the Blind SQ for Myopia with a hefty racial penalty (-8?) to Spot?


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## Cleon (Mar 14, 2011)

Hold on, did we forget its Blinding Flash is more potent than normal?

The original had -3 to the save, a 20' blinding range and an 80' startling (Dazzle?) range.

Double the range (20 feet for 1d6+1 rds blindness and 60 feet for 1 round) and add a +2 racial bonus to the DC?


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## Shade (Mar 14, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Good catch.
> 
> Shall we exchange the Blind SQ for Myopia with a hefty racial penalty (-8?) to Spot?




Sure!  Keep blindsight?



Cleon said:


> Hold on, did we forget its Blinding Flash is more potent than normal?
> 
> The original had -3 to the save, a 20' blinding range and an 80' startling (Dazzle?) range.
> 
> Double the range (20 feet for 1d6+1 rds blindness and 60 feet for 1 round) and add a +2 racial bonus to the DC?




That works for me!


----------



## freyar (Mar 16, 2011)

Yes to blindsight, but I'm not particularly opposed to dropping it either.

Agree to the more potent flash; that's about how I was thinking.


----------



## Shade (Mar 16, 2011)

Updated.


----------



## freyar (Mar 17, 2011)

Cr 2?


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## Cleon (Mar 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes to blindsight, but I'm not particularly opposed to dropping it either.




I'd rather keep the Blindsight.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> Cr 2?




Challenge Rating 2 is OK, although I think it's at the low power end.

How much damage does it do with its tentacle and swallow whole? The original's tentacle did no damage or 2-7 if it wrapped round the neck, while swallowed victims took 1-3 per round.

So, 1d6+4 for the tentacle and 1d3+3 plus 1d3 acid for the swallow whole?


----------



## freyar (Mar 21, 2011)

Good point, we forgot all those damage values!  I'll agree to those numbers.  How are 1d6+4 for constrict also and 5 hp damage to escape the swallow whole?


----------



## Shade (Mar 21, 2011)

Those values all seem appropriate.

Updated.

Organization: Solitary or x (2-10)

Advancement: 3-5 HD (Medium)?

A giant noctiluca is x feet in diameter and weighs x pounds.


----------



## freyar (Mar 21, 2011)

Cluster?  

Advancement looks good.

Not much opinion on the size.  3 to 4 ft maybe?


----------



## Shade (Mar 22, 2011)

That works for me, but I'll await Cleon's opinion.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 25, 2011)

Shade said:


> That works for me, but I'll await Cleon's opinion.




Cluster (2-10) is good and I thought I'd already backed 1d6+4 for the Constrict.

I'd make it 10 hit points (or maybe even 15) to cut free off Swallow Whole.

Scaling up the Ceratium would give vital statistics of 4 foot diameter and 800 pounds, but I'm thinking 3 foot diameter and 400 pounds would suit me better.


----------



## freyar (Mar 28, 2011)

Let's go with 10 hp to get out of Swallow Whole.  3ft, 400 lb works for me.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 31, 2011)

freyar said:


> Let's go with 10 hp to get out of Swallow Whole.  3ft, 400 lb works for me.




Fine by me.


----------



## Shade (Apr 4, 2011)

Updated.


----------



## freyar (Apr 5, 2011)

All done then?


----------



## Shade (Apr 5, 2011)

I think so!

EUGLENOIDS
The euglenoids are another group of single-celled organisms which may have pigment for photosynthesis, or may be colorless and survive by engulfing particles. The pigment, if present, is green. They move by flailing a single long flagellum.

*Euglena*
FREQUENCY: Common
NO. APPEARING: 10-60
ARMOR CLASS: 9
MOVE: 12
HIT DICE: 1
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 0
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 0
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Cells of Euglena are oblong, 1-3' in length. They are more annoying than dangerous, and are not capable of inflicting damage on a healthy character. They are attracted to light, and to food which has not been carefully wrapped. They will engulf food material up to about the size of a fist. An occasional Euglena will also ingest a coin or jewel.

Euglena is a favorite food source of larger water-dwelling creatures. Large swarms of Euglena will eventually attract attention, particularly if any of the cells are damaged. Euglena is found in both fresh and salt water, and on damp ground. Protiston uses these cells as “food animals”. 

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


----------



## Cleon (Apr 6, 2011)

freyar said:


> All done then?




Since they have a racial penalty to Spot they should have that included int their skills line, but apart from that I can't see anything wrong with them.

*Skills:* Spot -13


----------



## Cleon (Apr 6, 2011)

Shade said:


> I think so!
> 
> *SNIP*
> 
> *Euglena*




They don't have any attacks as written, which begs the question why we need to convert them.

I suppose we could add a Slam attack.

Maybe some googling of _Euglena_ will find some special abilities to make them more interesting.


----------



## Shade (Apr 6, 2011)

Euglena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia suggests an engulf attack with potential acid damage.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 8, 2011)

Shade said:


> Euglena - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia suggests an engulf attack with potential acid damage.




Fine by me, and it fits well with Ooze Standard Operating Procedure.

We'd better give it a generous size advancement to allow for bigger forms that can swallow man-sized or larger victims.


----------



## Shade (Apr 8, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Fine by me, and it fits well with Ooze Standard Operating Procedure.
> 
> We'd better give it a generous size advancement to allow for bigger forms that can swallow man-sized or larger victims.




Sounds good.  Modify these to fit?

Acid (Ex): A gelatinous cube’s acid does not harm metal or stone.

Engulf (Ex): Although it moves slowly, a gelatinous cube can simply mow down Large or smaller creatures as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The gelatinous cube merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the cube, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 13 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the cube moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and acid, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 9, 2011)

Shade said:


> Sounds good.  Modify these to fit?
> 
> Acid (Ex): A gelatinous cube’s acid does not harm metal or stone.
> 
> Engulf (Ex): Although it moves slowly, a gelatinous cube can simply mow down Large or smaller creatures as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The gelatinous cube merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the cube, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 13 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent’s choice) as the cube moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the cube’s paralysis and acid, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +1 racial bonus.




Thus?*Acid (Ex):* A euglena's acid does not harm metal or stone.

*Engulf (Ex):* Although it moves slowly, a euglena can simply mow  down creatures up to its own size as a standard action. It cannot make a  slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The euglena   merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can  cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the euglena , but if  they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not  attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC X Reflex save or be  engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent's  choice) as the euglena moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the euglena 's acid, and are considered to be grappled and  trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +Y  racial bonus.​The "It cannot make a  slam attack during a round in which it engulfs" suggest we give it a Slam attack with added acid.

I think I'd rather add an attack which allows it to engulf prey.*Attack:* Slam +X melee (Y acid plus engulf)

*Acid (Ex):* A euglena's acid does not harm metal or stone.

*Engulf (Ex):* Although it moves slowly, a euglena can simply mow  down creatures up to its own size as a standard action. It also attempts to engulf an opponent it hits with its slam attack. The euglena   merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can  cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the euglena, but  if  they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not  attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC X Reflex save or be  engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent's  choice) as the euglena moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to  the euglena 's acid, and are considered to be grappled and  trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based and includes a +Y  racial bonus.​Looks OK to me.


----------



## Shade (Apr 11, 2011)

1d2 acid?  It's only got 1 HD, and the 4-HD gelatinous cube does 1d6 acid.


----------



## freyar (Apr 11, 2011)

Agreed to all that, including the 1d2 acid.


----------



## Shade (Apr 12, 2011)

Let's figure out ability scores so we can get 'em to Homebrews.

Gel Cube:  Str 10, Dex 1, Con 26, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1

Other Small oozes:
Airjelly: Str 6, Dex 22, Con 28, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Olive Slime: Str 4, Dex 1, Con 20, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Slithering Tracker: Str 10, Dex 18, Con 20, Int 10, Wis 15, Cha 6

I'd probably place it closer to the first two.  Something like...

Str 6, Dex 1, Con 20, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1?


----------



## freyar (Apr 12, 2011)

Works for me.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 12, 2011)

Shade said:


> Let's figure out ability scores so we can get 'em to Homebrews.
> 
> Gel Cube:  Str 10, Dex 1, Con 26, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
> 
> ...




What about recycling the Small Peridinium from the very beginning of these conversions?:

Peridinium: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 19, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1


----------



## Shade (Apr 13, 2011)

Cleon said:


> What about recycling the Small Peridinium from the very beginning of these conversions?:
> 
> Peridinium: Str 10, Dex 10, Con 19, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1




That could work, although I'm not sure I like them as strong as the larger, higher-CR, similar-function gelatinous cube.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 13, 2011)

Shade said:


> That could work, although I'm not sure I like them as strong as the larger, higher-CR, similar-function gelatinous cube.




Cut the Strength to 6 then. It makes the Small version a weak grappler, but a Large or Huge one will be pretty effective.


----------



## freyar (Apr 14, 2011)

So go with the peridinium stats with Str reduced to 6?


----------



## Shade (Apr 15, 2011)

Added to Homebrews.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 15, 2011)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews.




Weren't we letting them advance to Huge?


----------



## Shade (Apr 15, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Weren't we letting them advance to Huge?




Sure.  Suggested HD range?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 16, 2011)

Shade said:


> Sure.  Suggested HD range?




9-16 (Huge) I suppose.


----------



## freyar (Apr 17, 2011)

+4 racial bonus on the engulf Ref DC?  

Do we have a weight on another Small one of these?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 17, 2011)

freyar said:


> +4 racial bonus on the engulf Ref DC?
> 
> Do we have a weight on another Small one of these?




+2 to Engulf would be enough for me.

We gave the Small Peridinium a 100 lb weight.


----------



## Shade (Apr 18, 2011)

Updated.


----------



## freyar (Apr 19, 2011)

Next, I think!


----------



## Shade (Apr 19, 2011)

I realized we had blind on the SQ line, but I'd forgotten its writeup.  Updated.


----------



## freyar (Apr 20, 2011)

Ok, looks good!


----------



## Cleon (Apr 21, 2011)

Shade said:


> I realized we had blind on the SQ line, but I'd forgotten its writeup.  Updated.




"Euglena survive primarily by phososynthesis" should be "photosynthesis".

The "Protiston uses euglena as “food animals”." is questionable, especially as we haven't done Protiston yet.

How about changing it to "Some monstrous aberrations raise euglena as “food animals”."?

Looks fine apart from that.


----------



## Shade (Apr 22, 2011)

Cleon said:


> "Euglena survive primarily by phososynthesis" should be "photosynthesis".




Will fix.



Cleon said:


> The "Protiston uses euglena as “food animals”." is questionable, especially as we haven't done Protiston yet.




Ahh, but we will!



Cleon said:


> "How about changing it to "Some monstrous aberrations raise euglena as “food animals”."?




I'll meet you halfway with "Some monstrous aberrations, as well as the mysterious entity known as Protiston, raise euglena as "food animals."


----------



## Shade (Apr 22, 2011)

Next!

*CILIATES*
Ciliates are one-celled animals which are covered with tiny hairs, which they use for movement. They do not have pigment, but survive by ingesting food particles through a mouth-like groove. Although only one type is described here, they come in a variety of shapes and sizes.

*Paramecium*
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
NO. APPEARING: 3-18
ARMOR CLASS: 8
MOVE: 9”
HIT DICE: 1-2
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAM/ATT.: 1 hp every 2 rounds
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPEC. DEF.: Sticky threads
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S-M
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Like Euglena, Paramecium is more annoying than dangerous to a well-equipped dungeon adventurer. The cells are rarely more than 2-3’ long, and thus cannot completely engulf a human. They may be able to “swallow” a hand or foot (attacks at -2), however, and in this case do 1 hp damage every second round after ingestion up to a maximum of 3 hp.

Sticky threads exuded by Paramecium are primarily used for defensive purposes, although they may be used to anchor the cell to an intended victim. The threads are kept immediately below the cell wall, and can be extended to a maximum range of 5’. A hit upon Paramecium will automatically trigger the release of sticky threads whether or not the cell is destroyed. Edged weapons will get stuck on a successful roll of 17 or less, pointed or blunt weapons on a roll of 19 or less. Weapons wrapped in threads attack at -3. It requires 1-6 rounds of concentrated effort to free such weapons.

Paramecium is attracted to food particles, but unaffected by light. Damaged cells will attract larger animals. Paramecium is most common in fresh water lakes and ponds, but is also found in salt water. 

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


----------



## Cleon (Apr 23, 2011)

Shade said:


> I'll meet you halfway with "Some monstrous aberrations, as well as the mysterious entity known as Protiston, raise euglena as "food animals."




How about "Some monstrous creatures, such as the mysterious entity known as Protiston, raise euglena as "food animals"."?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 23, 2011)

Shade said:


> *Paramecium*




So, a Small Ooze with some kind of entangling attack. It can "swallow" a hand or foot. Improved Grab followed by acid damage, or Grab then Swallow Whole if the target is diminutive enough, say 2 sizes smaller than the Ooze?

Base the stats on a Peridinium or Euglena?


----------



## Shade (Apr 25, 2011)

Cleon said:


> How about "Some monstrous creatures, such as the mysterious entity known as Protiston, raise euglena as "food animals"."?




Fair enough.



Cleon said:


> So, a Small Ooze with some kind of entangling attack. It can "swallow" a hand or foot. Improved Grab followed by acid damage, or Grab then Swallow Whole if the target is diminutive enough, say 2 sizes smaller than the Ooze?




That'll probably suffice, although it almost sounds more like attach with the "stickiness".



Cleon said:


> Base the stats on a Peridinium or Euglena?




Euglena will likely do.


----------



## freyar (Apr 26, 2011)

I'd probably go with some form of attach rather than Imp Grab, but that basically sounds right.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 26, 2011)

Shade said:


> That'll probably suffice, although it almost sounds more like attach with the "stickiness".




Attach suits me just as well, in either case they'll get a bonus to their grapple checks from their stickiness.


----------



## Shade (Apr 26, 2011)

Added to Homebrews.

In addition to/instead of attach, we might want to borrow this (due to the text talking about weapons sticking to it)...

Adhesive Slime (Ex): The thick, tarlike slime that farstus secrete acts as a powerful adhesive, holding fast creatures or items that touch it. Farastus have a +8 racial bonus on grapple checks and disarm checks due to their adhesive slime. A farastu frequently chooses to grapple its foes and then maul its enemies with natural attacks.

A weapon that strikes a farastu is stuck fast unless the wielder succeeds on a Reflex save (DC 17). Prying off a stuck weapon requires a Strength check (DC 17). The save DC is Constitution-based.

Lantern oil or some other flammable oil (such as alchemist's fire) dissolves the farstu's adhesive slime; the creature requires 10 minutes to renew its adhesive coating if doused with oil. A farastu can dissolve its adhesive slime at will, and the substance breaks down 1 minute after the creature dies.


----------



## freyar (Apr 26, 2011)

Yeah, maybe just roll everything into the slime like the farastu.  That's probably the most economical.


----------



## Shade (Apr 28, 2011)

We may still need attach (or improved grab), so the paramecium doesn't draw attacks of opportunity when grappling.

Like so?

Attach (Ex): If a giant paramecium hits with a touch attack, it uses its sticky threads to latch onto the opponent’s body. An attached paramecium is effectively grappling its prey. The giant paramecium loses its Dexterity bonus to AC and has an AC of x, but holds on with great tenacity. 

An attached giant paramecium can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached paramecium through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the creature.

Sticky Threads (Ex): The sticky threads covering a giant paramecium hold fast creatures or items that touch it. Giant paramecium have a +8 racial bonus on grapple checks and disarm checks due to their sticky threads. 

A weapon that strikes a giant paramecium is stuck fast unless the wielder succeeds on a DC X Reflex save. Prying off a stuck weapon requires a DC X Strength check. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Lantern oil or some other flammable oil (such as alchemist's fire) dissolves the giant paramecium's sticky threads; the creature requires 10 minutes to renew its adhesive coating if doused with oil. A giant paramecium can dissolve its adhesive slime at will, and the substance breaks down 1 minute after the creature dies. 

Remove the bits in red?


----------



## freyar (Apr 28, 2011)

Remove the bit about the dissolving at will, but leave the bit about the slime breaking down after death.  This looks pretty good over all, though.


----------



## Cleon (May 1, 2011)

Shade said:


> We may still need attach (or improved grab), so the paramecium doesn't draw attacks of opportunity when grappling.
> 
> Like so?
> 
> ...




I don't mind keeping the bit in red, but would rather it takes longer for the strands to break down - maybe 1d4+1 hours?

The "lantern oil or some other flammable oil" bit doesn't work so well for me. I don't think it needs to be _flammable_ for a start, and wouldn't mind other solvents (like vinegar or wine) working as well.


----------



## freyar (May 2, 2011)

I'd be fine with changing the liquids that dissolve the strands, too.


----------



## Shade (May 4, 2011)

Updated.


----------



## freyar (May 5, 2011)

Shall we give it a racial bonus to grapple checks?  +8, say?


----------



## Shade (May 5, 2011)

Yeah, probably a good idea.


----------



## freyar (May 5, 2011)

If you're agreed to +8, let's just add that in and move to the next one.


----------



## Shade (May 6, 2011)

Updated.

Here's the next one...

AMOEBAE
Amoebae are colorless single-celled organisms with a flexible cell wall. They move by extending lobes of cell material outward, releasing the surface beneath the cell body, and contracting the extended lobe. The lobes are also used to engulf small food particles, and- are capable of dishing out chunks of larger food items—something partially decayed is best!

*Amoeba*
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
NO. APPEARING: 3-30
ARMOR CLASS: 10
MOVE: 6”
HIT DICE: 1-3
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1
DAM/ATT.: 1-3 hp/round
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S-M
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Cells of Amoeba range from 2-5’ in diameter, are relatively flat, and irregular in outline. Blunt weapons and missile weapons do half damage, unless they strike the nucleus (natural roll of 19-20). Edged and pointed weapons do normal damage, double if they strike the nucleus (characters must state that they are aiming for the nucleus to receive the bonus).

Once an Amoeba scores a hit, it remains attached to the character, doing 1 hp/round/HD damage as it engulfs hunks of flesh. Amoeba is highly sensitive to fire, and a torch will do 1-6 hp damage to it per round of application (no roll to hit necessary unless the character throws the torch).

Amoeba is a scavenger which is attracted to decaying organic material. It’s found in areas with damp group (forests and swamps), in ponds and lakes, and particularly in dank caverns.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


----------



## freyar (May 6, 2011)

Well, engulf, attach, DR X/slashing or piercing.  Maybe some kind of anti-fortification due to the nucleus business if we want to keep that. Vulnerability to fire, probably.

Want to start at 1HD and Small?  I might actually prefer starting at the higher end, 3HD Medium.


----------



## Shade (May 12, 2011)

We might borrow some inspiration from this...

*Amoebic Crawler*
Large Ooze (Extraplanar)
Hit Dice: 4d10+32 (54 hp)
Initiative: +0
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 9 (-1 size), touch 9, flat-footed 9
Base Attack/Grapple: +3/+7
Attack: Tentacle +2 melee (1d6 plus 1d6 acid)
Full Attack: 2 tentacles +2 melee (1d6 plus 1d6 acid)
Space/Reach: 10 ft./10 ft.
Special Attacks: Acid, improved grab, vile touch
Special Qualities: Blindsight 60 ft., immunity to electricity, ooze traits, translucent
Saves: Fort +9, Ref +1, Will -4
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 11, Con 26, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 11
Skills: -
Feats: -
Environment: Any
Organization: Solitary
Challenge Rating: 3
Treasure: Standard
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 5-12 HD (Large); 13-24 HD (Huge)
Level Adjustment: -

Acid (Ex): An amoebic crawler's acid does not harm metal or stone.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, an amoebic crawler must hit with its tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and deals damage automatically every round (those grappled are affected by its vile touch ability).

Translucent (Ex): Amoebic crawlers are hard to see, even under ideal conditions, and it takes a DC 10 Spot check to notice one. Creatures who fail to notice a crawler and walk into it automatically take acid damage.

Vile Touch (Su): Those grappled by the slimy tentacles of this creature sometimes glimpse images from the Far Realm, and the sight sends them into screaming, explosive convulsions of nausea. Each round a creature remains grapple, it must succeed on a DC 12 Will save or be nauseated for that round.


----------



## freyar (May 12, 2011)

Drop the Vile Touch, and I like that pretty well.  I'd maybe reduce the physical stats a little, too.


----------



## Shade (May 12, 2011)

Downsize from Large to Small gives us...

Str -2, Dex 15, Con 20, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 11

Obviously, we can't have negative Str, and Dex 15 seems too high.   

How about:  Str 8, Dex 11, Con 18, Int -, Wis 1, Cha 11?


----------



## freyar (May 13, 2011)

How about Str 6?


----------



## Shade (May 13, 2011)

Sure.  Added to Homebrews.

Should this remain aquatic (and have a swim speed) like the other microscopic monsters?


----------



## freyar (May 16, 2011)

Yes on aquatic, but the swim speed should probably be slightly slow.


----------



## Shade (May 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes on aquatic, but the swim speed should probably be slightly slow.




10 ft.?


----------



## freyar (May 18, 2011)

10 ft is good.

Maybe make them amphibious, too.


----------



## Cleon (May 19, 2011)

freyar said:


> 10 ft is good.
> 
> Maybe make them amphibious, too.




Yes, we'd better make it Aquatic/Amphibious to allow for the damp ground environments mentioned in the description.

I'd have it start out Small 1 HD, but allow it to advance to some massive size. Huge or Gargantuan amoeba's just seem right.

As for the ability scores, Amoebas are really slow (judging by a few views through a microscope from my youth), and I don't think they should be as Dextrous as a human. I'd give them Dex 0 like the SRD Ochre Jelly.

I'd rather the Strength be higher, since they don't have much else going for them. Maybe Str 8, based on downsizing a Gray Ooze?

So, I prefer:

Str 8, Dex 1, Con 18, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1


----------



## Cleon (May 19, 2011)

Shade said:


> We might borrow some inspiration from this...
> 
> *Amoebic Crawler*
> Large Ooze (Extraplanar)
> ...




Where does this come from? I don't remember it, although the name "Amoebic Crawler" sounds like an original 3E monster...

Ah, a quick internet search identifies it as being from _Dragon #330_. I've got that issue tucked away somewhere, but it's a long while since I've read it.


----------



## Shade (May 19, 2011)

Cleon said:


> As for the ability scores, Amoebas are really slow (judging by a few views through a microscope from my youth), and I don't think they should be as Dextrous as a human. I'd give them Dex 0 like the SRD Ochre Jelly.
> 
> I'd rather the Strength be higher, since they don't have much else going for them. Maybe Str 8, based on downsizing a Gray Ooze?
> 
> ...




I'm fine with Dex 1 like several other oozes.  I've no strong opinion on Str 6 or Str 8.  I'll let you two battle it out.  

Updated for the lowered Dex.



Cleon said:


> Where does this come from? I don't remember it, although the name "Amoebic Crawler" sounds like an original 3E monster...
> 
> Ah, a quick internet search identifies it as being from _Dragon #330_. I've got that issue tucked away somewhere, but it's a long while since I've read it.




Yep, the Far Realm article.


----------



## Cleon (May 20, 2011)

Shade said:


> I'm fine with Dex 1 like several other oozes.  I've no strong opinion on Str 6 or Str 8.  I'll let you two battle it out.




The Strength 8 version will obviously win, since it's got higher damage and grapple bonuses.


----------



## freyar (May 23, 2011)

Cleon said:


> The Strength 8 version will obviously win, since it's got higher damage and grapple bonuses.



I was just going for Str 6 to provide a little variation, but it's not too big of a deal.


----------



## Shade (May 24, 2011)

Cleon said:


> The Strength 8 version will obviously win, since it's got higher damage and grapple bonuses.




Don't you mean "lesser penalties"?   

Updated.


----------



## Cleon (May 28, 2011)

Shade said:


> Don't you mean "lesser penalties"?
> 
> Updated.




Same thing shirley. 

That grapple bonus seems awful low. How about tagging on a +6 racial bonus to make it +0?


----------



## freyar (May 30, 2011)

Make it a +8 grapple bonus, and I'm on board.


----------



## Shade (May 31, 2011)

freyar said:


> Make it a +8 grapple bonus, and I'm on board.




Fair enough.  Updated.


----------



## Cleon (May 31, 2011)

Shade said:


> Fair enough.  Updated.




+8 to grapple works for me.


----------



## Shade (May 31, 2011)

Organization: Solitary or x (3–30)

Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3-4 HD (Medium); 5-8 HD (Large); 9-16 (Huge)? 

A typical giant amoeba is 2 to 5 feet in diameter and weighs around x pounds.


----------



## Cleon (May 31, 2011)

Shade said:


> Organization: Solitary or x (3–30)
> 
> Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3-4 HD (Medium); 5-8 HD (Large); 9-16 (Huge)?
> 
> A typical giant amoeba is 2 to 5 feet in diameter and weighs around x pounds.




What's a good collective noun for amoebas. A mass? A congealment? A blob?

The Advancement looks fine.

The description should mention their irregular shape. Something like.

An amoeba has an amorphous body it can reshape at will, throwing out pseudopods to attack prey or to flow to another location. Most of the time, a typical giant amoeba's body is a flattened, irregular blob between 2 and 5 feet across, but it can compress itself into a globe as little as a foot across, or stretch into a ribbon of living slime as much as 8 feet long. A Small giant amoeba weighs around 50 pounds, but they can grow to weigh many tons.


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## Shade (Jun 1, 2011)

I prefer "mass".  Good idea on the shape.

Updated.

Finished?


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## Cleon (Jun 3, 2011)

Shade said:


> I prefer "mass".  Good idea on the shape.
> 
> Updated.
> 
> Finished?




1) The tactics has mispelled pseudopods "pseuodpops" but apart from that it looks sound mechanically.

(Leaving aside the quaint colonial spelling ) 

2) Challenge Rating 1 might be a bit high, 1/2 might be enough.

3) I'm not _entirely_ sure about the Swim speed. Amoebas crawl along by reaching out with their pseudopods and pulling. As a rule they can't swim, although rhere are exceptions like *Naegleria* which transform into a "swimming form" when they need to migrate.

That said, I see no reason a giant amoeba can't swim. The physics at macro-scale are very different to the microscopic world. Maybe it used the water it expels from its vacuoles to create a primitive form of jet propulsion to slowly squirt itself through the water?

So, I'm OK leaving the swim speed in or taking it out, it's up to you.

4) However, it could do with a Climb speed. Somewhere around 10 to 20 ft.?

5) We should do something regarding this:

"Amoeba is highly sensitive to  fire, and a torch will do 1-6 hp damage to it per round of application  (no roll to hit necessary unless the character throws the torch)."

Just add Add Vulnerability To Fire. I considered adapting the Plantfolk's Fear of Flames, but the entry suggests it ignores the damage and keeps on fighting. Presumably because it's mindless!

Perhaps tweak the tactics too?

Thus...

*Special Qualities:* Amphibious, blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits, translucent, vulnerability to fire

*COMBAT*
A giant amoeba simply lashes out with pseuodpods and seeks to grab and dissolve prey into digestible chunks. Giant amoebas are highly sensitive to fire, and instinctively retreat from a naked flame.


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## freyar (Jun 6, 2011)

Vulnerability to fire is fine, though probably not necessary, since a torch would probably do damage to anyone anyway, doesn't it?


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## Shade (Jun 6, 2011)

freyar said:
			
		

> Vulnerability to fire is fine, though probably not necessary, since a torch would probably do damage to anyone anyway, doesn't it?




Agreed, but I say we keep it to differentiate 'em a bit from some of the other low-level oozes.

Updated.  Finished?


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## freyar (Jun 7, 2011)

Done enough.


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## Cleon (Jun 7, 2011)

freyar said:


> Done enough.




Now it's got a Climb speed it needs the skill stuff that goes with it:

* Skills:* Climb +7, Swim +7

*Skills:* Giant amoebas have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. Giant amoebas have a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard and can always take 10 on Swim checks, even if distracted or endangered.

Apart from that I think we're done with them.


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## Shade (Jun 7, 2011)

Oops!  We sure do.   Updated.

Here's the next one...

FORAMINIFERA
Foraminifera are marine relatives of the amoebae. They are encased in a chambered shell penetrated by pores. The lobes of cell material which they use for locomotion and capturing prey extend through the pores, and are thus long and stringy.

There are two basic types of foraminifera: those that dwell on the bottom and those that float. One example of each is given below.

*Elphidium*
FREQUENCY: Uncommon
NO. APPEARING: 5-20
ARMOR CLASS: 3-4
MOVE: 6”
HIT DICE: 1-3
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-3
SPECIAL ATTACKS: Nil
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: S-M
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Elphidium is a bottom-dwelling form which ranges in size from 2’ to 6’ across. Large cells have more chambers and a higher armor class. Those with 1 HD do only 1 hp damage/attack, at 2 HD 1-2 hp, and at 3 HD 1-3 hp.

Elphidium moves much like Amoeba, and is also basically a scavenger. The threadlike nature of its lobes gives it a different mode of attack, however. The shell of the cell remains relatively stationary, while the threadlike lobes pull food particles back to it. Elphidium thus must roll for a hit with each new attack (three attacks per turn possible). The 10 and can be cut off after suffering any damage. The cell can grow new threads with ease, and only hits to the main body cause permanent damage. Because the threads easily penetrate the joints in heavy armor, all armor heavier than chain mail is treated as AC 5 for attack purposes.

These cells are found in sandy patches on the shallow sea floor, in both warm and cold oceans.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


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## freyar (Jun 9, 2011)

Start with the amoeba, increase natural armor, maybe play around a little?


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## Shade (Jun 10, 2011)

Sounds like a plan.  It also makes me wonder if we should rethink the Aquatic subtype for the giant amoeba, as these are supposedly the aquatic version of said creature.


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## Cleon (Jun 10, 2011)

Shade said:


> Sounds like a plan.  It also makes me wonder if we should rethink the Aquatic subtype for the giant amoeba, as these are supposedly the aquatic version of said creature.




They're a _marine_ version. The amoebas described in this article mostly live in freshwater or damp soil. Thus, methinks Aquatic plus Amphibious is fine for a current conversion.

That said, we could consider expanding their environment to swamps, forests and damp caves to reflect the original text, e.g.:
*Environment:* Any aquatic, plus swamps, forests and underground

Like its microscopic cousin, a giant amoeba is a single-celled organism that feeds through engulfing solid particles through its cell membrane. Most giant amoebas are found in ponds, lakes or swamps, but these oozes also live in humid forests and damp caves.​Mechanically, Elphidium don't seem much like an amoeba, since they have a hard "shell" and attack with multiple "threads".

Our conversion of the Peridinium would seem a better match to its characteristics, by changing the trichocysts to harpoon-and-pull threads.


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## freyar (Jun 10, 2011)

I got the impression that the threads were roughly tentacles, but maybe you're right.  I'd still prefer to base abilities, etc, on the amoeba.

I agree with the amphibious bit for the regular amoeba.


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## Cleon (Jun 12, 2011)

freyar said:


> I got the impression that the threads were roughly tentacles, but maybe you're right.  I'd still prefer to base abilities, etc, on the amoeba.
> 
> I agree with the amphibious bit for the regular amoeba.




The giant amoeba's already got the Amphibious SQ, or were you referring to the suggested red additions?

As for the Elphidium, the main difference between the base abilities of the Amoeba and Peridinium is their Dex and NA - the Amoeba has Dex 1 and no NA, the Peridinium Dex 10 and +2 NA.

If we give the Elphidium Dex 1 like an Amoeba it'd need a +10 NA to match an AC equivalent to the original. That seems too high. I'd rather give it something like Dex 10-11 and +5 NA or Dex 6-7 and +7 NA.

I don't mind making the threads tentacles, since that's a good fit to them mechanically.

Oh, and are we doing anything about its "penetrate heavy armour" ability?

Think it's time for a Working Draft...


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## Cleon (Jun 12, 2011)

Oh blast it, the Amoeba should have Initiative: -5.

Looks like we forgot to change it from whichever microfauna it was copied-and-pasted from.


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## Cleon (Jun 12, 2011)

*Elphidium Working Draft*

*Elphidium, Giant*
Small Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1d10+4 (9 hp)
Initiative: -2
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft.
Armor Class: 16 (+1 size, -2 Dex, +7 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 16
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+2
Attack: Tentacle +0 melee (1d2-1)
Full Attack: 3 tentacles +0 melee (1d2-1)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved grab, "penetrate armour"
Special Qualities: Blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits
Saves: Fort +4, Ref -2, Will -5
Abilities: Str 8, Dex 7, Con 18, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Climb +7
Feats: —
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary or mass (2–20)
Challenge Rating: 1/2
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 2 HD (Small); 3-4 HD (Medium)
Level Adjustment: —

_Description__._

Stuff.

COMBAT
 Tactics

An opponent can attack an elphidium's tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A elphidium's tentacles have 1 hit points each. If a elphidium is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a elphidium's tentacles does no damage to the creature. An elphidium can grow a replacement tentacle in 1d4 rounds.

Tactics.

Skills: Elphidium have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can  always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.


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## freyar (Jun 13, 2011)

Well, it is encased in a shell, so it should have pretty good NA.

As for the penetrate armor bit, it doesn't seem very 3.X-ish.  I'm not sure how I'd want to deal with that, though I have a vague feeling we've seen some abilities like that before.  Anyone else remember?


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## Shade (Jun 13, 2011)

freyar said:


> Well, it is encased in a shell, so it should have pretty good NA.




I'm in favor of higher NA, low Dex.  We can go alot lower on the end AC...I'm not too worried about preserving the original AC, as it's only a 1-HD creature!



freyar said:


> As for the penetrate armor bit, it doesn't seem very 3.X-ish.  I'm not sure how I'd want to deal with that, though I have a vague feeling we've seen some abilities like that before.  Anyone else remember?




It seems vaguely familiar...something like a "find weak spot", although I'm not having luck tracking it down.


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## Cleon (Jun 13, 2011)

Shade said:


> I'm in favor of higher NA, low Dex.  We can go alot lower on the end AC...I'm not too worried about preserving the original AC, as it's only a 1-HD creature!




Higher NA and lower Dex than the working draft, e.g. NA +10, Dex -5?

I prefer giving it a higher Dex than that, if only because it has three melee attacks to coordinate.



Shade said:


> It seems vaguely familiar...something like a "find weak spot", although I'm not having luck tracking it down.




How about its tentacles confirm critical hits as if it was making a touch attack rather than a melee attack?


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## freyar (Jun 14, 2011)

How about Dex 3 or Dex 5?  Like Shade, I'm not sure we need the AC quite that high, but I don't mind a NA of +8 or +9.

Something like auto-confirming criticals does sound familiar.  Or maybe an extended threat range would work.


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## Shade (Jun 14, 2011)

Hmm...if it's simply ignoring armor, isn't that the very definition of a touch attack?


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## freyar (Jun 15, 2011)

Shade said:


> Hmm...if it's simply ignoring armor, isn't that the very definition of a touch attack?



Well, the original doesn't ignore armor.  It reduces the effectiveness of heavy armors to the equivalent of chain mail.  So it's not as good as a touch attack.  Since it's about finding joints in armor, etc, it sounds like precision damage --- something like a crit or a sneak attack.


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## Shade (Jun 15, 2011)

Good point.  So maybe just precise strike like a duelist?


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## Cleon (Jun 15, 2011)

freyar said:


> How about Dex 3 or Dex 5?  Like Shade, I'm not sure we need the AC quite that high, but I don't mind a NA of +8 or +9.
> 
> Something like auto-confirming criticals does sound familiar.  Or maybe an extended threat range would work.




Well I might be persuaded down to Dex 5, but it'd take some doing.


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## Cleon (Jun 15, 2011)

Shade said:


> Hmm...if it's simply ignoring armor, isn't that the very definition of a touch attack?




It's not ignoring armour, it's ignoring *heavy* armour.

Some kind of cap of armour bonuses would be the most accurate way to mimic the original version, but that seems awfully fiddly.


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## Shade (Jun 15, 2011)

Cleon said:


> It's not ignoring armour, it's ignoring *heavy* armour.
> 
> Some kind of cap of armour bonuses would be the most accurate way to mimic the original version, but that seems awfully fiddly.




Indeed.  Hmm...what if it gets a bonus on attack rolls equal to the opponent's armor check penalty?   Is that still too fiddly?


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2011)

Shade said:


> Indeed.  Hmm...what if it gets a bonus on attack rolls equal to the opponent's armor check penalty?   Is that still too fiddly?



That might work, but it does seem a bit fiddly (not impossibly so, though).  Besides, why can't it penetrate joints in any armor?  Why doesn't it instinctively hit creatures in vulnerable spots?  I can't quite see the logic.  I think I'd like something along the lines of precise strike better, and I have an idea we've used that before for a similar ability.


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## Shade (Jun 17, 2011)

The more I think about this, the more I think we should just write this off as a legacy ability.  I mean, why don't other creatures with pseudopods/tentacles get similar benefits?


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## Cleon (Jun 17, 2011)

Shade said:


> The more I think about this, the more I think we should just write this off as a legacy ability.  I mean, why don't other creatures with pseudopods/tentacles get similar benefits?




I agree it's easier to just drop it.

If it were a more interesting Special Attack I'd be happy to argue about it for days (as usual ), but it doesn't seem worth it in this case.


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## freyar (Jun 18, 2011)

Fair enough.

Ok, then.  We have "The shell of the cell remains relatively stationary, while the threadlike lobes pull food particles back to it."  Make the threads into roper-like strands with drag?


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## Cleon (Jun 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> Fair enough.
> 
> Ok, then.  We have "The shell of the cell remains relatively stationary, while the threadlike lobes pull food particles back to it."  Make the threads into roper-like strands with drag?




The original monster didn't have any special attack to pull victims towards it, nor does it have a close-in attack to use against opponent once they're drawn in. It also can damage creatures out to its full reach as easily as it can in a clinch.

That suggests the drawing in food is just flavour - e.g. once it kills an opponent it positions the oppenent's remains close to its own body so it's at a convenient distance for digestion. Presumably if it senses any edible flotsam or jetsam it pulls that food in close in the same fashion.


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## freyar (Jun 20, 2011)

Fair enough.  Is there anything else to this, then?


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## Cleon (Jun 20, 2011)

freyar said:


> Fair enough.  Is there anything else to this, then?




Maybe Improved Grab, since they seize food in their sticky tendrils?


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## Shade (Jun 21, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Maybe Improved Grab, since they seize food in their sticky tendrils?




I'd go for that.


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## Cleon (Jun 22, 2011)

Shade said:


> I'd go for that.




Fine.

I wouldn't bother with a racial bonus to increase the Grapple modifier, since they use it for collecting "food particles" which are presumably pretty little and don't struggle much!


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## Shade (Jun 22, 2011)

Added to Homebrews.


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## Cleon (Jun 23, 2011)

Shade said:


> Added to Homebrews.




It should have 3 tentacles when full attacking, not 2.

Same size and weight as a Peridinium, since they're a similar "armoured lump with thin tendrils that shoot out"?

A typical giant elphidium is 2 feet in diameter and weighs about 100 pounds.


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## Shade (Jun 24, 2011)

Updated.


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## Cleon (Jun 25, 2011)

Shade said:


> Updated.




That looks about it for them mechanically. Maybe add a bit more description or tactics?

These marine relatives of amoebas are found in sandy patches on the shallow sea floor, in both warm and cold oceans. An elphidium  mostly just lies on the sea floor and stretches out out thin filament-like pseudopods. Any passing bit of food that gets stuck to these pseudo-tentacles is pulled in to their body to be ingested.

A typical giant elphidium is 2 feet in diameter and weighs about 100 pounds.

COMBAT
 Elphidium attacks with its pseudopod tentacles, grabbing opponents and gradually crushing them. If it kills an opponent, it pulls the corpse close to its body and slowly ingests its new meal.

An opponent can attack an elphidium's tentacles with a sunder attempt as  if they were weapons. A elphidium's tentacles have 1 hit points each.  If a elphidium is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is  being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of  opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one  of a elphidium's tentacles does no damage to the creature. An elphidium  can grow a replacement tentacle in 1d4 rounds.


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## freyar (Jun 26, 2011)

That would be fine.


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## Cleon (Jun 26, 2011)

freyar said:


> That would be fine.




Do you want to move on to the Globigerina then?


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## freyar (Jun 27, 2011)

Seems like this one's done, at least.


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## Cleon (Jun 27, 2011)

freyar said:


> Seems like this one's done, at least.




Well in that case, we can at least start thinking about our next creature while waiting for Shade.


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## Shade (Jun 30, 2011)

Updated.

And here's the globster...

*Globigerina*
FREQUENCY: Rare
NO. APPEARING: 10-60
ARMOR CLASS: 5
MOVE: 0
HIT DICE: 2
% IN LAIR: 0
TREASURE TYPE: Nil
NO. OF ATTACKS: 1/3
DAMAGE/ATTACK: 1-4/1-2
SPECIAL ATTACKS: See below
SPECIAL DEFENSES: Nil
MAGIC RES.: Standard
INTELLIGENCE: Non-
ALIGNMENT: Neutral
SIZE: See below
PSIONIC ABILITY: Nil

Globigerina is a floating form consisting of a relatively small central coiled shell (3’ diameter) with long, slender, needle-sharp spines extending to a total diameter of 15’. A character attacking the cell with any weapon other than a long lance or a missile suffers 1-4 hp damage from the spines, never reaching the central shell, unless the spines are first broken away (a risky task itself). The cell floats passively, waiting for prey to blunder into it. The sharp spines do an initial 1-4 hp damage, followed by an attack made by thread-like lobes of cell material. On a hit, this attack does 1-2 hp additional damage, and also causes the victim to become stuck among the spines and threads. Subsequent attacks on trapped prey (three per turn) are made at +2. To escape, a character must make a saving throw vs. paralyzation at -4.

Although Globigerina cannot actively swim, it can slowly sink or rise in the water column. When a group of cells is encountered, they will be arranged at a variety of depths, much like a field of floating mines. A field of Globigerina can be particularly deadly when encountered at night.

Globigerina is only found in salt water. It is generally restricted to fairly deep, open water, although occasionally one may drift into a harbor.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


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## Cleon (Jul 2, 2011)

Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> And here's the globster...
> 
> ...




So, spiny defense. If it's a 15' sphere of spines with a 3' ball in the middle its spines are 6 feet long, so weapons with reach can circumvent the spines as per standard.

A 3 foot spherical creature is probably Medium sized. (e.g. a Beholder is twice that diameter and Large).

Do we want to give it a 5 ft. swim speed to represent its very limited stationkeeping / changing depths in water speed?

Looks like it normally has 1 spine attack (1d4 damage) with either Improved Grab or Attach, followed by automatic damage from the threads plus attacks by three spines.

That suggests the creature can attack a 5 ft. square with up to 4 spines (the initial spine plus the 3 follow-ups).

What kind of damage do the threads do? Presumably they digest the victim, so I'm thinking maybe acid damage?


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## freyar (Jul 4, 2011)

I like all those ideas.


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## Cleon (Jul 5, 2011)

freyar said:


> I like all those ideas.




Might as well start roughing something out then...


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## Cleon (Jul 5, 2011)

*Globigerina Working Draft*

*Globigerina, Giant
*Medium Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 2d10+8 (19 hp)
Initiative: -4
Speed: Swim 5 ft. (1 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (-4 Dex, +9 natural), touch 6, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+9
Attack: Spine +1 melee (1d4)
Full Attack: Spine +1 melee (1d4)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Spines, tendrils
Special Qualities: Blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits, transparent
Saves: Fort +4, Ref -4, Will -5
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 2, Con 18, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Swim +8
Feats: —
Environment: Any aquatic
Organization: Solitary, group (2-12) or field (10–60)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: 3 HD (Medium); 4-6 HD (Large)
Level Adjustment: —

_Floating in the water is a__ globe of _needle-sharp _spines which radiate from a small, coiled shell. The __creature is hard to make out, as the __spines are almost transparent__ and its __shell matches the color of the water._

This giant microorganism bears a superficial resemblance to a giant, floating sea urchin. A colony of globigerina will instinctively arrange itself at different depths, like a floating minefield, and wait for food to blunder into its spines.

A globigerina appears to be a globe of spines at least 15 feet across, at the centre is a 3 foot wide coiled shell which contains the creature's living protoplasm. Globigerina generally weigh 800 pounds or more.

*COMBAT*

Globigerina is a passive threat, only attacking creatures who blunder into their spines. Globigerina usually drift on the currents waiting for prey or edible flotsam to come to them. They will slowly float towards food if they sense it nearby.

*Spines (Ex):* Any creature that comes within 5 ft. of a globigerina, or strikes a globigerina with a handheld or natural weapon, must succeed at a DC 15 Reflex save or be hit by a spine. Creatures hit by a spine takes 1d4 points of piercing damage and is immediately attacked by a tendril (see below). Note that weapons with exceptional reach, such as longspears, do not endanger their users in this way. A Large-sized globigerina has spines that threaten a 10 ft. radius. The save DC is Constitution-based.

A globigerina  can also attack an opponent with its spines as a standard melee attack. Normally it attacks with a single spine, but if the globigerina is attached to the opponent by a tendril it can attack with 3 spines, with a +2 bonus to its attack rolls.  A globigerina cannot make more than 4 attacks against any 5 ft. square within its reach.

*Tendrils (Ex):* Whenever a globigerina hits an opponent with a spine, it can attack that opponent with a tendril of protoplasm. This is a melee touch attack (+1 attack check for a typical globigerina) that does 1d2 acid damage.

If a tendril hits, it attaches itself to the opponent's body with adhesive secretions. The attached tendril then continues to damage the opponent (as above) every round, until the opponent escapes or the globigerina is killed. An attached globigerina is effectively grappling its prey and can be struck with a weapon or grappled itself. To remove an attached globigerina  through grappling, the opponent must achieve a pin against the globigerina. Globigerina have a +8 racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

*Transparent (Ex):* A globigerina is difficult to see when it is in the ocean, since it blends in to the color of deep water. It takes a DC 13 Spot check to notice one. Creatures who  fail to notice a globigerina and move within 5 feet of it are  automatically attacked.     

*Skills:* Giant globigerina have a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard and can always take 10 on Swim checks, even if distracted or endangered.


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## Cleon (Jul 5, 2011)

Upon reflection, I think just 1d2 acid damage for the tendrils rather than 1d2 bludgeoning plus 1d2 acid. They're more like our Paramecium conversion's sticky thread than a grey ooze's slam.

I think I'll update it.

Also, the original version of the creature says that the spines prevent an opponent getting within normal melee range of the central body:

"A character attacking the cell with any weapon other than a long lance or a missile suffers 1-4 hp damage from the spines, never reaching the central shell, unless the spines are first broken away (a risky task itself)."

Do we want to include that as a special defense?


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## Cleon (Jul 5, 2011)

Cleon said:


> These marine relatives of amoebas are found in sandy patches on the shallow sea floor, in both warm and cold oceans. An elphidium  mostly just lies on the sea floor and stretches out out thin filament-like pseudopods. Any passing bit of food that gets stuck to these pseudo-tentacles is pulled in to their body to be ingested.




Just noticed an "out out" typo in the Elphidium - out with the outermost out!

Also, we've got both "an elphidium" and "a elphidium" when it should stick to one or the other.

Revised version:

These marine relatives of amoebas are found in sandy patches on the shallow sea floor, in both warm and cold oceans. An elphidium mostly just lies on the sea floor and stretches out thin filament-like pseudopods. Any passing bit of food that gets stuck to these pseudo-tentacles is pulled in to their body to be ingested.

A typical giant elphidium is 2 feet in diameter and weighs about 100 pounds.

*COMBAT*

Elphidium attacks with its pseudopod tentacles, grabbing opponents and gradually crushing them. If it kills an opponent, it pulls the corpse close to its body and slowly ingests its new meal.

An opponent can attack an elphidium's tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A giant elphidium's tentacles have 1 hit points each. If an elphidium is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of an elphidium's tentacles does no damage to the creature. An elphidium can grow a replacement tentacle in 1d4 rounds.


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## Shade (Jul 6, 2011)

Fixed Elphidium.   Good eye!

Globigerina looks a good start.  I'm not sure if just approaching within 5 feet should automatically trigger an attack, though.


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## Cleon (Jul 6, 2011)

Shade said:


> Fixed Elphidium.   Good eye!
> 
> Globigerina looks a good start.  I'm not sure if just approaching within 5 feet should automatically trigger an attack, though.




Well it seemed appropriate for a living "floating mine", especially one surrounded by 6-foot spikes.


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## freyar (Jul 6, 2011)

I think a 5 ft approach should cause a hit; that's within the globe of spines, after all!


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## Cleon (Jul 7, 2011)

freyar said:


> I think a 5 ft approach should cause a hit; that's within the globe of spines, after all!




Exactly!

I think that we should make it clearer that the "4 attacks per square" limit cover both spines and tendrils - e.g. once it's got 4 tendrils attached in a square it can't make any more attacks (spine or tendril) on that square until a tendril releases.


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## freyar (Jul 8, 2011)

You mean if there are small enough opponents in that square to have more than one character in the square?  There doesn't seem much point in it attaching multiple tendrils to one opponent.


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## Cleon (Jul 9, 2011)

freyar said:


> You mean if there are small enough opponents in that square to have more than one character in the square?  There doesn't seem much point in it attaching multiple tendrils to one opponent.




Each tendril does 1d2 acid damage per round, so it can do up to 4d2 per 5 ft. square.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Each tendril does 1d2 acid damage per round, so it can do up to 4d2 per 5 ft. square.



Oh, I didn't notice that in the fine print.


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## Cleon (Jul 10, 2011)

freyar said:


> Oh, I didn't notice that in the fine print.




It's always the fine print that gets you.


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## Shade (Jul 11, 2011)

So all that remains is descriptive text and CR?


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## Cleon (Jul 12, 2011)

Shade said:


> So all that remains is descriptive text and CR?




I'm wondering about a racial bonus to Hide (hence the Hide +4? in the skills), since the original description says people can blunder into them at night - I have difficulty imagining someone accidentally swimming into something 7 foot across unless it had some stealth advantage.


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## Shade (Jul 13, 2011)

Cleon said:


> I'm wondering about a racial bonus to Hide (hence the Hide +4? in the skills), since the original description says people can blunder into them at night - I have difficulty imagining someone accidentally swimming into something 7 foot across unless it had some stealth advantage.




Is it perhaps due to transparency like a gel cube?


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## Cleon (Jul 14, 2011)

Shade said:


> Is it perhaps due to transparency like a gel cube?




I'm imagining the Globigerina's spines are transparent as water and its body is the same colour as the ocean, but it isn't countershaded so the shadow of its body on its lower half gives it away during daylight. It presumably sinks into the depths during the day to keep hidden.


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## freyar (Jul 14, 2011)

That sounds mechanically a lot like transparency.  I think I'd favor that.


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## Shade (Jul 14, 2011)

Yeah, I think this mechanic will work better for this particular creature than a Hide check.

Transparent (Ex): Gelatinous cubes are hard to see, even under ideal conditions, and it takes a DC 15 Spot check to notice one. Creatures who fail to notice a cube and walk into it are automatically engulfed.


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## Cleon (Jul 14, 2011)

freyar said:


> That sounds mechanically a lot like transparency.  I think I'd favor that.




I'm OK using the Transparency SQ, I just fancy having the see-through spines and ocean-camouflaged core in the description or background text.


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## freyar (Jul 15, 2011)

However you want to write the flavor/description is fine.

Transparent (Ex): Globigerina are hard to see (unless removed from the ocean), and it takes a DC 15?? Spot check to notice one. Creatures who fail to notice a globigerina and move within 5 feet of it are automatically attacked.


----------



## Shade (Jul 15, 2011)

That all works for me.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 15, 2011)

Shade said:


> That all works for me.




I was thinking of making the DC lower, since the description suggests they're not much of a threat when visibility is good.

*Transparent (Ex):* A globigerina is difficult to see when it is in the ocean, since it blends in to the color of deep water. It takes a DC 13 *[?]* Spot check to notice one. Creatures who  fail to notice a globigerina and move within 5 feet of it are  automatically attacked.


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## freyar (Jul 18, 2011)

That's fine.


----------



## Shade (Jul 18, 2011)

I concur.


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## Cleon (Jul 20, 2011)

Shade said:


> I concur.




I *Update*.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2011)

Cleon said:


> I *Update*.




I approve.

I suggest CR 2.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 22, 2011)

Shade said:


> I approve.
> 
> I suggest CR 2.




I think that's too high. 

I think they're not that tough, and are almost immobile, so Challenge Rating 1 would seem plenty.

I wonder whether anyone else agrees.


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## Shade (Jul 25, 2011)

My reasoning for CR 2:

19 hp
Immune to crits, sneak attack, etc.
Free attacks on anyone within 5 feet and those attacking it without a reach weapon
It could potentially make 6 attacks (plus 6 tendrils) if a creature approaches and attacks it, before the attackers' next turn!


----------



## Cleon (Jul 25, 2011)

Shade said:


> My reasoning for CR 2:
> 
> 19 hp
> Immune to crits, sneak attack, etc.
> ...




Eh? Didn't we limit it to 4 attacks per 5 ft. square, how would it get 6 attacks?

Besides, its attacks do pretty crummy damage - it'll almost always be taking more damage than its spines dish out.

Anyhow, the big problem is anyone with a ranged or reach attack can easily kill one from a safe distance with negligible risk to themselves. I think that deserves a low CR.


----------



## Shade (Jul 26, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Eh? Didn't we limit it to 4 attacks per 5 ft. square, how would it get 6 attacks?




I was a bit confused by the wording.  I thought it could only make 4 attacks that it initiated.   That would mean 1 attack of opportunity for the creature entering its 5-foot threatened area of the spines, 1 self-inflicted "attack" for not attacking with a reach weapon, and then the full attack of the globby.  And of course, the added tendril damage for each.   



Cleon said:


> Besides, its attacks do pretty crummy damage - it'll almost always be taking more damage than its spines dish out.




Up to 4d4 plus 4d2 acid isn't terrible at CR 2.



Cleon said:


> Anyhow, the big problem is anyone with a ranged or reach attack can easily kill one from a safe distance with negligible risk to themselves. I think that deserves a low CR.




There is that, but many creatures don't take into account similar "weaknesses" in their CR.  It seems CR assumes optimal conditions.  (A shark's is pretty ineffective against ranged attacks as well, for example)


----------



## Cleon (Jul 27, 2011)

Shade said:


> There is that, but many creatures don't take into account similar "weaknesses" in their CR.  It seems CR assumes optimal conditions.  (A shark's is pretty ineffective against ranged attacks as well, for example)




Yes, but at least a shark's faster than a human!

A lot of ranged attacks aren't terribly effective underwater, but with the Globigerina the PCs don't need to be much more than 15 ft away for it to have no chance of reaching them, so the water does little to impede them.

Still, I'll admit it's pretty close to the CR 1 / CR 2 boundary, it's just seems we differ on which way it topples over.

Guess we could wait for Freyar to put in his two copper pieces worth.


----------



## Shade (Aug 2, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Guess we could wait for Freyar to put in his two copper pieces worth.




Fair enough!

If that's all that's left, we can move on to the next one and just plug in the CR once freyar comments.

*SLIME MOLDS*
These creatures are so bizarre that it seems as though they evolved specifically to be used in AD&D games. Slime molds are best considered a type of colonial amoeba, although they are commonly mistaken for mushrooms during one phase of their life cycle. 

The numerous amoebae which make up a colony move independently, scavenging for food, until the food begins to run out. At that point they mass together forming a large communal gelatinous mass, which in some forms is capable of movement (and is appropriately called a “slug”). When a suitable site is located, the front third of the amoebae join together and form a stalked structure called a sporocarp.

As the sporocarp hardens, the amoebae forming it die. The remaining amoebae round up and form spores in the upper chamber. At this point, the sporocarp splits open, releasing the spores to blow or roll away. When a spore lands in a patch of damp ground, an amoeba hatches out, and the life cycle is repeated.

*Dictyostelium*
Amoeba Slug Sporocarp Spore
FREQ.: Rare Very rare Very rare Rare
NO. APP.: 30-600 1 1 1-100
AC: 10 9 4 6
MOVE: 6” 9” Nil Nil
HIT DICE: 1-2 hp 30-600 hp 20-400 hp 1 hp
% IN LAIR: 0 0 0 0
TREASURE: N i l Nil Nil Nil
NO. ATT.: 1 See below Nil Nil
DAM/ATT.: 1 See below Nil Nil
SPEC. ATT.: Nil Nil Nil Nil
SPEC. DEF.: Nil Nil Nil Nil
MAGIC RES.: Standard Standard Standard Standard
INTEL.: Non- Non- Non- Non-
ALIGN.: Neutral Neutral Neutral Neutral
SIZE: S L L S
PSI. ABIL.: Nil Nil Nil Nil

In the amoeba stage, the cells should be treated like small members of Amoeba with 1-2 hp each. The slug is attracted to light, and otherwise acts much like a gelatinous cube without the paralytic ability. The slug is capable of engulfing one character per 15 hp, and will do 2-7 hp damage/round to each character engulfed. Torches do 1-6 hp damage to the slug attacking at +4. Blunt weapons and missiles do half damage. If the slug is severely damaged (15 hp in one round) it will simply break up into individual amoebae.

Dictyostelium will not attack in the sporocarp stage. In the early stages of its development, the sporocarp is covered with damp mucus, and fire attacks do only half damage. At maturity the sporocarp is dry, and fire attacks are much more effective. If the sporocarp is not completely destroyed in one attack, however, most of the spores will be ejected. Sharp blows to the stalk or cap may also cause release of the spores.

The spores are small (1-2’ in diameter) and relatively light. They are easily destroyed by direct application of fire, and blunt weapons attack them at +1 doing normal damage. 

A single spore which escapes destruction is capable of producing an entirely new colony. By dividing once every six hours, for example, an amoeba hatched by one spore would generate a colony of 256 amoebae after just two days. The rate of division will vary based on the amount of food available, and will always slow down as the colony becomes very large.

Dictyostelium is most common in humid forests, and is only rarely found in dungeons.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #111 (1986).


----------



## Cleon (Aug 4, 2011)

Shade said:


> Fair enough!
> 
> If that's all that's left, we can move on to the next one and just plug in the CR once freyar comments.
> 
> ...




This one's going to be complicated!

The Spores and Sporocarp don't need full stat blocks, although we might be able to finagle a Hazard out of them. It's only the Amoeba and Slug forms that can move and attack, and I think it'd be easier giving them separate stat blocks.

The "Amoeba" can be a Swarm of Tiny or Diminutive Oozes, the "Slug" can be one big Ooze.


----------



## Shade (Aug 5, 2011)

Cleon said:


> This one's going to be complicated!
> 
> The Spores and Sporocarp don't need full stat blocks, although we might be able to finagle a Hazard out of them. It's only the Amoeba and Slug forms that can move and attack, and I think it'd be easier giving them separate stat blocks.
> 
> The "Amoeba" can be a Swarm of Tiny or Diminutive Oozes, the "Slug" can be one big Ooze.




This approach seems apt.


----------



## Cleon (Aug 6, 2011)

Shade said:


> This approach seems apt.




How many Hit Dice?

An individual Amoeba seems to be 1/4 HD since they're 1-2 hit points.

The "Slug" has 30-600 hit points. If we use the AD&D standard of 4.5 hits per die and assume the 30 hp is the starting version, that's 6.66 HD. If its 600 hp max has 8 hp/die that works out 75 Hit Dice.

Call it 7 HD (Large) with a very broad Advancement, say up to 75 HD?

7-12 HD (Large); 13-24 HD (Huge); 25-48 HD (Gargantuan); 49-75 HD (Colossal)?


----------



## Shade (Aug 8, 2011)

Cleon said:


> How many Hit Dice?
> 
> An individual Amoeba seems to be 1/4 HD since they're 1-2 hit points.
> 
> ...




Yes, sounds good.  Protiston is apparently of the 75 HD variety.


----------



## Cleon (Aug 8, 2011)

Shade said:


> Yes, sounds good.  Protiston is apparently of the 75 HD variety.




Yes, the big blob should certainly be the 75 HD version with many special abilities.

What size do we want the individual Amoebas to be.

I'm thinking Tiny, since they seem vulnerable to weapon damage en masse.

Contrariwise, I would like to stat an individual Amoeba as well as a Swarm.


----------



## freyar (Aug 9, 2011)

I think I prefer CR 2 for globy.


----------



## freyar (Aug 9, 2011)

Can we just downsize a normal giant amoeba for the individual amoeboid form?

I have very fond memories of the time I saw a slime mold slug.  At least, I don't know what else it could have been.


----------



## Cleon (Aug 10, 2011)

freyar said:


> Can we just downsize a normal giant amoeba for the individual amoeboid form?




Well it certainly wouldn't hurt to downsize a giant amoeba and see what it looks like.

Are you OK with Tiny?



freyar said:


> I have very fond memories of the time I saw a slime mold slug.  At least, I don't know what else it could have been.




An alien collective organism seeking to devour the world?


----------



## freyar (Aug 12, 2011)

A Tiny amoeba would work for me.


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## Cleon (Aug 14, 2011)

freyar said:


> A Tiny amoeba would work for me.




Downscaling our *Giant Amoeba* to Tiny would produce something like this:

*Amoeba, **Giant, **Tiny*
Tiny Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1/2d10+3 (5 hp)
Initiative: -5
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft., swim 10 ft.
Armor Class: 8 (+2 size, -4 Dex), touch 8, flat-footed 8
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-3
Attack: Tentacle -1 melee (1d2-3 plus 1d2 acid)
Full Attack: 2 tentacles -1 melee (1d2-3 plus 1d2 acid) [Maybe only one tentacle or change the tentacle to slam?]
Space/Reach: 2 1/2 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Acid, improved grab
Special Qualities: Amphibious, blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits, translucent, vulnerability to fire
Saves: Fort +3, Ref -4, Will -4
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 3, Con 16, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Climb +5, Swim +5
Feats: —
Environment: Any aquatic, forest, swamp, and underground
Organization: Solitary or mass (3–30)
Challenge Rating: 1/4 [?]
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

Acid (Ex): A giant amoeba's acid does not harm metal or stone.

Improved Grab (Ex): To use this ability, a giant amoeba must hit with  its tentacle attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free  action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the  grapple check, it establishes a hold and deals damage automatically  every round.  Giant amoebas have a +8 racial bonus on grapple checks  (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

Translucent (Ex): Amoebas are hard to see, even under ideal conditions,  and it takes a DC 10 Spot check to notice one. Creatures who fail to  notice a giant amoeba and walk into it automatically take acid damage. [A Slime Mold wouldn't have Translucent]

Skills: Giant amoebas have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can  always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened.  Giant amoebas have a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some  special action or avoid a hazard and can always take 10 on Swim checks,  even if distracted or endangered.


----------



## freyar (Aug 15, 2011)

Change the tentacle to a slam and drop translucent. I think I'd be happy with that.


----------



## Cleon (Aug 16, 2011)

freyar said:


> Change the tentacle to a slam and drop translucent. I think I'd be happy with that.




Fine by me.

We'd better settle on what we're calling it. "Amoeboid Slime Mold"?


----------



## Shade (Aug 16, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Fine by me.
> 
> We'd better settle on what we're calling it. "Amoeboid Slime Mold"?




That has a nice ring to it.


----------



## Cleon (Aug 17, 2011)

Shade said:


> That has a nice ring to it.




Come to think of it, that should be "Slime Mold, Amoeboid" with a "Slime Mold, Amoeboid Swarm" derived from it.

Time for a Working Draft?


----------



## Shade (Aug 17, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Come to think of it, that should be "Slime Mold, Amoeboid" with a "Slime Mold, Amoeboid Swarm" derived from it.
> 
> Time for a Working Draft?




I think so.  Added to Homebrews.


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## Cleon (Aug 17, 2011)

Shade said:


> I think so.  Added to Homebrews.




Would you care to add some description/background/tactics text?


----------



## Shade (Aug 17, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Would you care to add some description/background/tactics text?




It depends. Are we doing each iteration separately, or just listing all four statblocks then giving them a combined flavor text entry?


----------



## Cleon (Aug 18, 2011)

Shade said:


> It depends. Are we doing each iteration separately, or just listing all four statblocks then giving them a combined flavor text entry?




I think a combined flavour text with separate stats & Combat entries is the way to go.


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## Shade (Aug 18, 2011)

Cleon said:


> I think a combined flavour text with separate stats & Combat entries is the way to go.




That works for me.


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## Cleon (Aug 19, 2011)

Shade said:


> That works for me.




Seems we're agreed then. Shall we start on an Amoeboid Swarm?

We settled on 7 HD with advancement up to 75 HD across the following sizes.

7-12 HD (Large); 13-24 HD (Huge); 25-48 HD (Gargantuan); 49-75 HD (Colossal)

That's for the Slug form, presumably. We'll could treat the Amoeboid Mass form as a number of Swarms of the same total HD. (1 = Large Slug, 2-3 = Huge Slug, 4-6 = Gargantuan, 7-11 = Colossal).

Hmm, perhaps we should tweak the slug form's advancement to a whole number of 7s, to make its HD fit the 7 HD "single swarm" better? Something like this:

7-13 HD (Large slug = 1 swarm); 14-27 HD (Huge slug = 2-3 swarms); 28-48 HD (Gargantuan slug = 4-6 swarms); 49-77 HD (Colossal slug = 7-11 swarms)

I'm also tempted to give a "multiple swarm" amoeboid swarm some kind of "gestalt" bonus so it's tougher than usual. Maybe a bonus to saves, Str, Con or HP proportional to the number of swarms it has in contact?


----------



## freyar (Aug 23, 2011)

Well, it effectively has more hp just by being more swarms.  But I don't really see the logic in improving the other stats until they join into a slug.


----------



## Cleon (Aug 23, 2011)

freyar said:


> Well, it effectively has more hp just by being more swarms.  But I don't really see the logic in improving the other stats until they join into a slug.




I'd like the two forms to be more-or-less the same Challenge-Rating wise.

A bunch of Swarms may have the same HP, but the swarms' other combat stats (damage, saves, etc) will not improve. Ten 7 HD swarms are presumably going to be a lot weaker than a single 70 HD slug.


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## freyar (Aug 24, 2011)

Most of the time, we should just be talking about a Large size slug.  Besides, who's to say a Colossal slug shouldn't be a lot stronger than 10 swarms?


----------



## Shade (Aug 26, 2011)

freyar said:


> Well, it effectively has more hp just by being more swarms.  But I don't really see the logic in improving the other stats until they join into a slug.




I favor this approach, too, for simplicy's and consistency's sake.


----------



## freyar (Aug 26, 2011)

Shade said:


> I favor this approach, too, for simplicy's and consistency's sake.



Whew!


----------



## Cleon (Aug 28, 2011)

freyar said:


> Most of the time, we should just be talking about a Large size slug.  Besides, who's to say a Colossal slug shouldn't be a lot stronger than 10 swarms?




Who's to say it isn't. 

Isn't the whole point of the amoeboid swarm form of a monstrous slime mold that it's effectively one "mega-swarm" rather than a bunch of individual swarms?

I'm getting the feeling I'm not winning you over, so we might as well proceed with the Swarm. At the worst I can use it an "regular sized" Amoebic Swarm.

Hmm, I'm feeling a Homebrew coming along - maybe a "Mega-Swarm" single creature with some Swarm traits, and if it gets whacked hard enough a "regular" Amoebic Swarm splits off.


----------



## freyar (Aug 31, 2011)

I'm rather confused.  The original monster didn't even list a swarm.  I thought we just wanted to do a single amoeba, a swarm, and a slug.  I don't think slime molds really act collectively until they join into a slug anyway.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 1, 2011)

freyar said:


> I'm rather confused.  The original monster didn't even list a swarm.  I thought we just wanted to do a single amoeba, a swarm, and a slug.  I don't think slime molds really act collectively until they join into a slug anyway.




I think that's the way we're going now.

Come to think of it, making the Challenge Ratings match is only a concern if the "Megaswarm" can turn into a Slug relatively quickly (i.e. during the period of a combat or adventure). If we assume it takes long enough to occur "off camera", then they're effectively separate monsters and we (or, rather, I) don't need to worry about the CRs being equal.


----------



## freyar (Sep 2, 2011)

Let's just have it take a couple minutes then.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 3, 2011)

freyar said:


> Let's just have it take a couple minutes then.




If it's minutes it can occur between fights in a protracted battle. I was thinking a few days.


----------



## freyar (Sep 5, 2011)

Ok, then, 24 hours?


----------



## Cleon (Sep 6, 2011)

freyar said:


> Ok, then, 24 hours?




I'd go for something longer than that, preferably with a random factor.

276d4+1164 minutes.

Or 1d4 days, if you want to be boring.


----------



## Shade (Sep 7, 2011)

24 hours appeals.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 8, 2011)

Shade said:


> 24 hours appeals.




I could live with that.

So, shall we get back to the Swarm. We agreed on 7 HD didn't we?

How much swarm damage should it do - 1d6 plus 2d6 acid?


----------



## freyar (Sep 8, 2011)

Sounds reasonable.  Anything else to decide for them really?


----------



## Cleon (Sep 10, 2011)

freyar said:


> Sounds reasonable.  Anything else to decide for them really?




Shall I put it together in a Working Draft and see what it looks like?

That'll give us a better idea whether we're missing anything.


----------



## freyar (Sep 12, 2011)

Go for it, either of you.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 13, 2011)

freyar said:


> Go for it, either of you.




I'll have a stab at it.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 13, 2011)

*Slime Mold Working Draft*

*Slime Mold, Amoeboid*
Tiny Ooze (Aquatic)
Hit Dice: 1/2d10+3 (5 hp)
Initiative: -4
Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft., swim 10 ft.
Armor Class: 8 (+2 size, -4 Dex), touch 8, flat-footed 8
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-3
Attack: Slam -1 melee (1d2-3 plus 1d2 acid)
Full Attack: Slam -1 melee (1d2-3 plus 1d2 acid) 
Space/Reach: 2 1/2 ft./0 ft.
Special Attacks: Acid, improved grab
Special Qualities: Amphibious, blind, blindsight 60 ft., ooze traits, vulnerability to fire
Saves: Fort +3, Ref -4, Will -4
Abilities: Str 4, Dex 3, Con 16, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
Skills: Climb +5, Swim +5
Feats: —
Environment: Any aquatic, forest, swamp, and underground
Organization: Solitary or coagulation (2–60)
Challenge Rating: 1/4
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always neutral
Advancement: —
Level Adjustment: —

*Slime Mold, Amoeboid Swarm*
 Tiny Ooze (Aquatic, Swarm)
 Hit Dice: 7d10+21 (59 hp)
 Initiative: -4
 Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft., swim 10 ft.
 Armor Class: 8 (+2 size, -4 Dex), touch 8, flat-footed 8
 Base Attack/Grapple: +5/--
 Attack: Swarm (1d6 plus 2d6 acid)
 Full Attack: Swarm (1d6 plus 2d6 acid)
 Space/Reach: 10 ft./0 ft.
 Special Attacks: Acid, clinging swarm, distraction
 Special Qualities: Amphibious, blind, blindsight 60 ft., half damage from slashing and piercing, ooze traits, swarm traits, vulnerability to fire
 Saves: Fort +5, Ref -2, Will -2
 Abilities: Str 4, Dex 3, Con 16, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
 Skills: Climb +5, Swim +5
 Feats: —
 Environment: Any aquatic, forest, swamp, and underground
 Organization: Solitary or mass (2-12 swarms)
 Challenge Rating: 4
 Treasure: None
 Alignment: Always neutral
 Advancement: —
 Level Adjustment: —

*Slime Mold, Slug*
Large Ooze (Aquatic)
  Hit Dice: 7d10+49 (87 hp)
  Initiative: -5
  Speed: 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft., swim 10 ft.
  Armor Class: 4 (-1 size, -5 Dex), touch 4, flat-footed 4
  Base Attack/Grapple: +5/+18
  Attack: Slam +9 melee (1d6+7 plus 2d6 acid)
  Full Attack: Slam +9 melee (1d6+7 plus 2d6 acid)
  Space/Reach: 10 ft./5 ft.
  Special Attacks: Acid, engulf, improved grab
  Special Qualities: Amphibious, blind, blindsight 60 ft., half damage from slashing or piercing, ooze traits, splatter split, vulnerability to fire
  Saves: Fort +9, Ref -3, Will -2
  Abilities: Str 20, Dex 1, Con 24, Int —, Wis 1, Cha 1
  Skills: Climb +13, Swim +13
  Feats: —
  Environment: Any aquatic, forest, swamp, and underground
  Organization: Solitary
  Challenge Rating: 5
  Treasure: None
  Alignment: Always neutral
  Advancement: 8-13 HD (Large); 14-27 HD (Huge); 28-48  HD (Gargantuan); 49-77 HD (Colossal)
  Level Adjustment: —

_A brightly colored blob of slime_

Slime molds are a kind of amoeba with a complicated lifecycle. Each  organism is a single-celled blob of protoplasm hereafter called an  "amoeboid slime mold". These amoeboids seek out organic material to  digest and reproduce by splitting in two.  Many slime  molds are strikingly colored in yellow, white, or orange-brown. They may  be a single uniform color, or a patchwork mass of different colors or  shades.

Slime mold can grow very  quickly, a single amoeboid will become an amoeboid slime mold swarm  within a few days, assuming there is enough food. Once the slime molds  start to exhaust their food supply, the swarm (or swarms) conglomerate  into a single mass called a "slug", which is hardy enough to seek out  more sources of nourishment. Eventually, the slug forms itself into a  "sporocarp", a rigid structure full of spores  that resembles a  dried-out mushroom. When conditions are favorable, the sporocarp  releases its spores, a single one of which can populate an entire new  colony.

Amoeboid slime molds normally spread their amorphous bodies to a  diameter of about 2 feet with a thickness less than an inch, but can   compress themselves into a clump up to 3 inches thick. A typical   specimen weighs 10 to 15 pounds.

COMBAT

 Amoeboid slime molds attack instinctively, attempting to slam and grab onto opponents, then digesting them slowly with acid.

*Acid (Ex):* An amoeboid slime mold's acid does not harm metal or stone.
*
Improved Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, an amoeboid slime mold must hit  with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free  action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the  grapple check, it establishes a hold and deals damage automatically  every round. Amoeboid slime molds have a +8 racial bonus on grapple checks  (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

*Skills:* Slime molds have a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and  can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or  threatened. Slime molds have a +8 racial bonus on any Swim  check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard and can always  take 10 on Swim checks, even if distracted or endangered.

*Slime Mold Amoeboid Swarm*

COMBAT

 Swarms of amoeboid slime molds instinctively crawl over the most edible  object they sense, usually the nearest living creature, and digest it  with their acids.

*Clinging Swarm (Ex):* Any living creature that takes damage  from a  amoeboid slime mold swarm's swarm attack must succeed at a DC 16  Reflex save or 1d4 amoeboid slime molds from the swarm automatically  grapple the  creature, dealing damage as usual.  Treat these as  individual amoeboid  slime molds, which must be killed or grappled  individually. The Reflex save DC is Constitution-based.

*Distraction (Ex):* Any living creature that begins its turn with an amoeboid slime mold swarm in its space must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.

*Slime Mold Slug*

A slime mold slug is usually about 20 feet long, 5 to 10 feet wide and 1  or 2 feet thick. It can spread its slimy gestalt body into a 20  diameter disc up to a foot thick, or condense into a lump 10 feet across  and up to 4 feet tall. A typical specimen weighs 5000 to 7500 pounds.     

COMBAT

A slime mold slug tries to slam, grab, and engulf as many opponents as  it can accommodate. It may need to digest food it has already engulfed  before it can engulf additional opponents it has grabbed.

*Acid (Ex):* A slime mold slug's acid does not harm metal or stone.
*
Improved Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, a slime mold slug must  hit  with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a  free  action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the   grapple check, it establishes a hold and deals damage automatically   every round. Slime mold slugs have a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks   (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

*Engulf (Ex):* A slime mold slug can simply mow down Large or smaller creatures as a standard action. It cannot make a slam attack during a round in which it engulfs. The slime mold slug merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against the slug, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC 18 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent's choice) as the cube moves forward. Engulfed creatures are subject to the slug's acid, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body. The save DC is Strength-based.

*Splatter Split (Ex):* If a slime mold slug takes at least 10  points of damage from an attack, it must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC  equals the damage inflicted by the attack) or take double damage as the  force of the attack splatters fragments from its body. Many of these  fragments will continue to live as amoeboid slime molds. If the attack  inflicted between 20 and 60 hit points of damage (after doubling), the  blow splatters off 1d4 individual amoeboid slime molds for every 10 points of damage taken by the slug. If the blow does more than 60 hit points  of damage, the blow strikes off huge blobs of tissue that form one  amoeboid slime mold swarm for every 60 points of damage inflicted  (minimum one swarm). The amoeboid slime molds will behave independently  according to their normal instincts, they are not under the control of  the slug.     

*Slime Mold Sporocarp (CR 1)*
A mature sporocarp resembles a large, dried out mushroom about 10 feet    tall. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores   about   an inch long. A dry sporocarp has vulnerability to fire. It is  AC 1,   hardness 5, and takes 120 hit points of damage to destroy, but  any   weapon damage which does not  destroy the sporocarp causes it to  split   open and release its spores.  The spores scatter in a cloud  covering a   30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter  they touch    (including living creatures), which they immediately start  to digest,    doing 2d4 points of acid damage per round (the acid  damage only harms  organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the  first round of   contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature   (exposing  the  scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after  that it must be   frozen, burned, or cut  away (dealing damage to the  victim as well).   Anything that deals cold  or fire damage, sunlight,  or a _remove disease_  spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, even a single spore can grow and multiply  into an entire slime mold colony. Partially developed sporocarps are  soggy and covered with damp mucus,    giving them fire resistance 5.  Such a sporocarp poses no threat, since    its spores are not ready to  reproduce.


----------



## freyar (Sep 13, 2011)

For the imp grab, do we want to do something similar to a rot grub's infestation?  Or just leave it off?  I could go either way.

I might want to bump up the slug's acid damage a little too.  Or give it constrict.  Something.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 14, 2011)

freyar said:


> For the imp grab, do we want to do something similar to a rot grub's infestation?  Or just leave it off?  I could go either way.




I was going to just drop it, but I like the idea of infestation. Makes sense a victim of the swarm will get covered by acidic slime globs.



freyar said:


> I might want to bump up the slug's acid damage a little too.  Or give it constrict.  Something.




Yes, the Slug is going to need a bit of a boost - I am thinking Engulf. I was going to leave that for after we finish the Amoeba(s) though.


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## freyar (Sep 15, 2011)

I'd say the individual amoeba looks pretty good.  Ok, for infestation, just have some amoebas stick to it, doing acid damage each round?  How does the victim get them off?  Shouldn't be as complicated or deadly as rot grubs.


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## Cleon (Sep 16, 2011)

freyar said:


> I'd say the individual amoeba looks pretty good.  Ok, for infestation, just have some amoebas stick to it, doing acid damage each round?  How does the victim get them off?  Shouldn't be as complicated or deadly as rot grubs.




I'd presume the victim would remove the infesting slime using normal grappling rules.


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## freyar (Sep 19, 2011)

That could take a while if there are multiple amoebae attached.  We should specify the number that grab on, whether they each do acid damage, etc.  I'd also insist that we don't give them a racial grapple bonus if multiple can attach.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 20, 2011)

freyar said:


> That could take a while if there are multiple amoebae attached.  We should specify the number that grab on, whether they each do acid damage, etc.  I'd also insist that we don't give them a racial grapple bonus if multiple can attach.




No, I think the racial grapple bonus is essential, although I _might_ be OK reducing it to +4 if Shade think's it's too much.


----------



## Shade (Sep 21, 2011)

Cleon said:


> No, I think the racial grapple bonus is essential, although I _might_ be OK reducing it to +4 if Shade think's it's too much.




Let's see how it works with +4.


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## Cleon (Sep 21, 2011)

Shade said:


> Let's see how it works with +4.




It would look like "Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-7".


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## Shade (Sep 22, 2011)

Cleon said:


> It would look like "Base Attack/Grapple: +0/-7".




That looks...pretty bad!   I suppose their strength lies in numbers, but maybe the +8 bonus isn't so bad.


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## freyar (Sep 23, 2011)

I like the pretty bad grapple bonus, though I guess a -3 is ok.  The point is that you can still only remove one at a time, and you still have others possibly getting stuck if you're still in the swarm.  Imagine someone throwing off amoeba after amoeba but still getting covered up.  It's almost more frustrating if they're easy to remove.


----------



## Cleon (Sep 25, 2011)

freyar said:


> I like the pretty bad grapple bonus, though I guess a -3 is ok.  The point is that you can still only remove one at a time, and you still have others possibly getting stuck if you're still in the swarm.  Imagine someone throwing off amoeba after amoeba but still getting covered up.  It's almost more frustrating if they're easy to remove.




Well I'm not that bothered either way, to be honest.

Besides, It'd likely be easier to kill the amoebas with regular attacks.


----------



## freyar (Sep 27, 2011)

Ok, then we just have the left-behind amoebas from the swarm become regular slime mold amoebas?


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## Cleon (Sep 29, 2011)

freyar said:


> Ok, then we just have the left-behind amoebas from the swarm become regular slime mold amoebas?




Looks that way.


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## freyar (Oct 3, 2011)

Ok, let's adapt from this, then:



			
				crystal nipper homebrew said:
			
		

> Infestation (Ex): Any living creature that takes damage from a crystal nipper swarm might also be infested with crystal nippers each round. A creature must make a successful DC 18 Reflex save to dodge the swarming nippers or bat them aside. The crystal nipper infesting the creature burrow into its flesh. An infested creature takes 1d4 points of Constitution damage per round, plus an additional 1d4 points of Constitution damage for each failed Reflex save against a crystal nipper swarm's attack. A successful DC 16 Fortitude save halves this damage. After 2d4 rounds, the sated crystal nippers crawl or swim away. A crystal nipper infestation can be removed with a successful DC 20 Heal check, though this check (whether successful or not) deals 1d6 points of damage to the infested target. Alternatively, a crystal nipper infestation can be destroyed by remove disease or any other effect that halts or counters a disease. Such spells destroy all the crystal nippers inhabiting a target.
> 
> Medium or larger creatures that die from crystal nipper infestation spawn a new crystal nipper swarm within 2d4 days. Burning or otherwise destroying the body prevents this. Casting raise dead to restore a creature killed by a crystal nipper swarm but this does not destroy the crystal nippers infestation, casting remove disease or a similar spell in the round afterward removes the nippers normally. Resurrection and true resurrection destroy the crystal nipper when cast.
> 
> The Reflex save DC is Dexterity-based. The Fortitude save DC is Constitution-based.




I think we can drop the second paragraph, since that's not the effect we want here.  Maybe something like:

Infestation?? (Ex): Any living creature that takes damage from a amoeboid slime mold swarm might also be infested?? with amoeboid slime molds each round. A creature must make a successful DC X Reflex save to dodge the swarming amoeboid slime molds or bat them aside.  On a failed save, 1d4 amoeboid slime molds from the swarm automatically grapple the creature, dealing damage as usual.  Treat these as individual amoeboid slime molds, which must be killed or grappled individually.

The Reflex save DC is Dexterity-based.


I'm very open to suggestions for the name of this ability.


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## Cleon (Oct 4, 2011)

freyar said:


> Infestation?? (Ex): Any living creature that takes damage from a amoeboid slime mold swarm might also be infested?? with amoeboid slime molds each round. A creature must make a successful DC X Reflex save to dodge the swarming amoeboid slime molds or bat them aside.  On a failed save, 1d4 amoeboid slime molds from the swarm automatically grapple the creature, dealing damage as usual.  Treat these as individual amoeboid slime molds, which must be killed or grappled individually.
> 
> The Reflex save DC is Dexterity-based.




Looks a good start.



freyar said:


> I'm very open to suggestions for the name of this ability.




Glutinous Attachment? Sticky Swarm?


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## freyar (Oct 6, 2011)

Sticky swarm almost works, but I think something more active would be better.  Don't like glutinous attachment much, too many syllables.


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## Cleon (Oct 7, 2011)

freyar said:


> Sticky swarm almost works, but I think something more active would be better.  Don't like glutinous attachment much, too many syllables.




Clinging Swarm?


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## freyar (Oct 7, 2011)

Ahh, I like that.


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## Cleon (Oct 8, 2011)

freyar said:


> Ahh, I like that.




So...
*
Clinging Swarm (Ex):* Any living creature that takes damage from a  amoeboid slime mold swarm might also be infested with amoeboid slime  molds each round. A creature must make a successful DC X Reflex save to  dodge the swarming amoeboid slime molds or bat them aside.  On a failed  save, 1d4 amoeboid slime molds from the swarm automatically grapple the  creature, dealing damage as usual.  Treat these as individual amoeboid  slime molds, which must be killed or grappled individually.

The Reflex save DC is Dexterity-based.

You know, I think we can trim that down a bit.

*Clinging Swarm (Ex):* Any living creature that takes damage from a  amoeboid slime mold swarm's swarm attack must succeed at a DC X Reflex save or 1d4 amoeboid slime molds from the swarm automatically grapple the  creature, dealing damage as usual.  Treat these as individual amoeboid  slime molds, which must be killed or grappled individually. The Reflex save DC is Dexterity-based.

That looks better, methinks.


----------



## freyar (Oct 9, 2011)

Yes, I like that last version.  Is that almost it for the swarm?


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## Cleon (Oct 10, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes, I like that last version.  Is that almost it for the swarm?




I'll stick it in the *Working Draft*...

I added a racial bonus to the Clinging Swarm DC, otherwise it has a pathetic DC 9 due to its low Dexterity.


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## freyar (Oct 11, 2011)

Instead of the racial bonus, why not make it Con-based?  They're a bit sticky, right?  Con would make sense if that's the source of the clinging.


----------



## Cleon (Oct 12, 2011)

freyar said:


> Instead of the racial bonus, why not make it Con-based?  They're a bit sticky, right?  Con would make sense if that's the source of the clinging.




Good idea, that'll put the DC up to 16.

Updating *Working Draft*.

What next?


----------



## Shade (Oct 12, 2011)

I think most of the red question marks can go away.  Those CRs look appropriate.

We'll need names for the groups.  Does a term exist for a collective of slime?


----------



## Cleon (Oct 13, 2011)

Shade said:


> I think most of the red question marks can go away.  Those CRs look appropriate.
> 
> We'll need names for the groups.  Does a term exist for a collective of slime?




A coagulation?


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## freyar (Oct 13, 2011)

Cleon said:


> A coagulation?



Sounds good to me!


----------



## Cleon (Oct 14, 2011)

freyar said:


> Sounds good to me!




Good!

So, how many in a coagulation?

2-200?


----------



## freyar (Oct 17, 2011)

I guess 200 could work, but that's getting unwieldy enough a smart DM would shift over to the swarm version.  Why not 3-30 like we already have there?


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## Cleon (Oct 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> I guess 200 could work, but that's getting unwieldy enough a smart DM would shift over to the swarm version.  Why not 3-30 like we already have there?




Well the original monster had a #Appearing of 30-600, so I wanted a pretty wide range. Not all the way to 30d20, but a bit more that we've got!

How about 3-60 or, better yet, 2-60. It'll give my d30s some exercise.


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## freyar (Oct 19, 2011)

2-60 is ok, I guess; I just figured that the hundreds part of the original org line would be covered by the swarm.  

Should we move to the giant slug?


----------



## Cleon (Oct 20, 2011)

freyar said:


> 2-60 is ok, I guess; I just figured that the hundreds part of the original org line would be covered by the swarm.
> 
> Should we move to the giant slug?




I'd like to give it a final check, but I think we're nearly done.


----------



## freyar (Oct 21, 2011)

When you're ready.


----------



## Cleon (Oct 22, 2011)

freyar said:


> When you're ready.




Looks OK after a last check.

We still need flavour & tactics for the amoeboid form, but I'm thinking we're doing that all together at the end.

On to the Slug!


----------



## Shade (Oct 24, 2011)

Slug time!


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## Cleon (Oct 25, 2011)

Shade said:


> Slug time!




Be my guest...


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## freyar (Oct 25, 2011)

So it looks just about ready, unless we want to give it an additional special attack, like engulf.


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## Cleon (Oct 26, 2011)

freyar said:


> So it looks just about ready, unless we want to give it an additional special attack, like engulf.




Yes, I was thinking Engulf would be appropriate.

Oh, and shouldn't the Slug do more acid damage? The Swarm does 2d6 acid, which I reckon the Slug ought to at least equal.


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## freyar (Oct 27, 2011)

Boosting the acid damage works for me.


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## Cleon (Oct 28, 2011)

freyar said:


> Boosting the acid damage works for me.




Is 2d6 acid enough for you?


----------



## Shade (Oct 31, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Is 2d6 acid enough for you?




It's good enough for me.


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## freyar (Nov 1, 2011)

Yes, 2d6 works.  How much acid damage should an engulfed opponent take per round?  Same as the slam, like a gelatinous cube?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 1, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes, 2d6 works.  How much acid damage should an engulfed opponent take per round?  Same as the slam, like a gelatinous cube?




Yes, I think so. It's basically being acid-slimed all over with both attacks.


----------



## freyar (Nov 2, 2011)

Let's just do that.  Otherwise, I think the standard Engulf will work.

Anything else to add?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 3, 2011)

freyar said:


> Let's just do that.  Otherwise, I think the standard Engulf will work.
> 
> Anything else to add?




Updating *Working Draft*.

I've copied over the Amoeboid Slime Mold's Acid and Improved Grapple special attacks. Should we reduce the Amoeboid form's +8 racial bonus to Grapple to give the Slug a +4, say, or cut it altogether?


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## freyar (Nov 7, 2011)

Give it +4, I think.  

The slug seems to be shaping up to be very easy to hit but otherwise tough.  Interesting.

By the way, the attack lines need +10 melee for the slams.

Anything else on the slugs?


----------



## Shade (Nov 7, 2011)

freyar said:


> Anything else on the slugs?




Probably just an org.  What is a collective of slugs called?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 8, 2011)

freyar said:


> Give it +4, I think.
> 
> The slug seems to be shaping up to be very easy to hit but otherwise tough.  Interesting.
> 
> ...




The attack bonus must have got lost by me copying the Swarm's statblock.

I'll update it, but the slam's +9 melee, not +9. You appear to have forgotten the size penalty.


----------



## Cleon (Nov 8, 2011)

Shade said:


> Probably just an org.  What is a collective of slugs called?




The Slime Mold Slug _*is *__*already *__*a collective*_ - it's a "super swarm" of amoeboids working together.

I'd rather keep the Slug a "solitary" monster. If you had two slugs they'd probably join together into one bigger one.

Which reminds me, should there be any attacks that will split them up, or "cut a swarm off the slug"?


----------



## Shade (Nov 8, 2011)

Cleon said:


> The Slime Mold Slug _*is *__*already *__*a collective*_ - it's a "super swarm" of amoeboids working together.
> 
> I'd rather keep the Slug a "solitary" monster. If you had two slugs they'd probably join together into one bigger one.




Good point!  I agree.



Cleon said:


> Which reminds me, should there be any attacks that will split them up, or "cut a swarm off the slug"?




Ooh...fun!   Base it off the Split SQ of some oozes?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 8, 2011)

Shade said:


> Ooh...fun!   Base it off the Split SQ of some oozes?




Well, we'd better decide if we want to give it such an ability.

Let's see what it says in the original text...



			
				Microscopic Monsters said:
			
		

> If the slug is severely damaged (15 hp in one round) it will simply break up into individual amoebae.




That strongly favours the "hitting it will splatter off amoebas" approach rather than the "split into smaller slugs", although I can see an argument for it spawning an amoeba swarm if hit _*really*_ hard.


----------



## Shade (Nov 9, 2011)

Cleon said:


> That strongly favours the "hitting it will splatter off amoebas" approach rather than the "split into smaller slugs", although I can see an argument for it spawning an amoeba swarm if hit _*really*_ hard.




Let's do this.  We need to define "really hard" for that purpose.


----------



## Cleon (Nov 9, 2011)

Shade said:


> Let's do this.  We need to define "really hard" for that purpose.




Something like this?

*Splatter Split (Ex):* If a slime mold slug takes at least 10 points of damage from an attack, it must succeed at a Fortitude save (DC equals the damage inflicted by the attack) or take double damage as the force of the attack splatters fragments from its body. Many of these fragments will continue to live as amoeboid slime molds. If the attack inflicted between 20 and 60 hit points of damage (after doubling), the blow splatters off a number of individual amoeboid slime molds equal to the damage taken by the slug. If the blow does more than 60 hit points of damage, the blow strikes off huge blobs of tissue that form one amoeboid slime mold swarm for every 60 points of damage inflicted (minimum one swarm). The amoeboid slime molds will behave independently according to their normal instincts, they are not under the control of the slug.


----------



## freyar (Nov 12, 2011)

I like that generally, but I think 20-60 individual amoeboid slime molds is too many for a DM to deal with reasonably.  Can we reduce this a bit?  Maybe 1 amoeboid slime mold per 5 hp?  I know it doesn't scale nicely into a swarm, but think about the poor DMs!


----------



## Cleon (Nov 13, 2011)

freyar said:


> I like that generally, but I think 20-60 individual amoeboid slime molds is too many for a DM to deal with reasonably.  Can we reduce this a bit?  Maybe 1 amoeboid slime mold per 5 hp?  I know it doesn't scale nicely into a swarm, but think about the poor DMs!




Yes, I was thinking the number was a bit cumbersome but it fitted the scale so nicely. 

How about 1d4 slime molds per 10 damage, or 2d4 to 6d4 amoebas?


----------



## freyar (Nov 15, 2011)

That's a bit better, sure.


----------



## Cleon (Nov 16, 2011)

freyar said:


> That's a bit better, sure.




Shall I swap that in, then?


----------



## freyar (Nov 16, 2011)

Please do, and then it looks pretty good.  Do you think still CR 4?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 17, 2011)

freyar said:


> Please do, and then it looks pretty good.  Do you think still CR 4?




 Updating *Working Draft*.

I'm starting to wonder whether CR 5 might be more appropriate, depending on how likely it is to produce a swarm.


----------



## Shade (Nov 17, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Updating *Working Draft*.
> 
> I'm starting to wonder whether CR 5 might be more appropriate, depending on how likely it is to produce a swarm.




We might as well err on the side of caution...


----------



## Cleon (Nov 17, 2011)

Shade said:


> We might as well err on the side of caution...




Now I did wonder whether we should give them "half damage from slashing or piercing" like a Tiny Swarm, since the Slug is basically an unusually organized swarm. That would make it more likely to "splatter" when hit by bludgeoning weapons, but that could make sense.


----------



## Shade (Nov 17, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Now I did wonder whether we should give them "half damage from slashing or piercing" like a Tiny Swarm, since the Slug is basically an unusually organized swarm. That would make it more likely to "splatter" when hit by bludgeoning weapons, but that could make sense.




I like it!


----------



## Cleon (Nov 18, 2011)

Shade said:


> I like it!




Updating *Working Draft*.

Anything else?


----------



## freyar (Nov 23, 2011)

I'd say they look pretty good.  Let's go with CR 5.  I also want to stick with solitary, since I think the point of the slug is that all the slime molds around conglomerate into one.

Flavor and tactics next, or do you want to do the sporocarp hazard?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 23, 2011)

freyar said:


> I'd say they look pretty good.  Let's go with CR 5.  I also want to stick with solitary, since I think the point of the slug is that all the slime molds around conglomerate into one.
> 
> Flavor and tactics next, or do you want to do the sporocarp hazard?




 Updating *Working Draft*.

I'd rather sort out all the form before tying them together with flavour text, but I guess we could do the tactics since they'll be different for each form.

Although that means we should have done the amoeboids tactics already...


----------



## freyar (Nov 25, 2011)

Amoeboids just try to slam and grab, swarms swarm and grab, slugs slam and grab and engulf.  It's all instinctual.   There, all done. 

Sporocarp anyone?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 25, 2011)

freyar said:


> Amoeboids just try to slam and grab, swarms swarm and grab, slugs slam and grab and engulf.  It's all instinctual.   There, all done.




Not done.

Swarms don't grab, they cling. 



freyar said:


> Sporocarp anyone?




Basically, we need to decide what the Sporocarp does that's hazardous. Choking? Inhaled disease?


----------



## Shade (Nov 28, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Basically, we need to decide what the Sporocarp does that's hazardous. Choking? Inhaled disease?




Inhaling it makes you choke up a carp?


----------



## Cleon (Nov 29, 2011)

Shade said:


> Inhaling it makes you choke up a carp?




"choke up a carp?" I don't even know what that means.


----------



## Shade (Nov 30, 2011)

Cleon said:


> "choke up a carp?" I don't even know what that means.




A cheap play on sporocarp.


----------



## freyar (Nov 30, 2011)

Ignoring all the fish, I'd say a couple rounds of choking and exposure to a disease that causes you to grow a slime mold amoeba in a way similar to a slaad egg or something.  And I guess we need to establish conditions that cause it to release the spores.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 1, 2011)

freyar said:


> Ignoring all the fish, I'd say a couple rounds of choking and exposure to a disease that causes you to grow a slime mold amoeba in a way similar to a slaad egg or something.  And I guess we need to establish conditions that cause it to release the spores.




Well, the real-world example probably only releases its spores when it senses the conditions have become favourable (i.e. the moisture goes up) or it it's broken open.


----------



## freyar (Dec 1, 2011)

According to wikipedia, they can revert to the slug or amoeba form if it gets moist again.  So let's say "when mature" or else if the sporocarp takes some amount of damage?


----------



## Cleon (Dec 2, 2011)

freyar said:


> According to wikipedia, they can revert to the slug or amoeba form if it gets moist again.  So let's say "when mature" or else if the sporocarp takes some amount of damage?




Maybe we should just leave it as background information, since the original monster didn't have a hazardous Sporocarp.


----------



## freyar (Dec 3, 2011)

You mean not write the hazard?  I think it's worth putting in.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 3, 2011)

freyar said:


> You mean not write the hazard?  I think it's worth putting in.




I mean there's nothing in the original text that says it is a hazard. We could just describe it as a stage used for reproduction or "suspended animation" which is no direct threat to PCs, but can eventually produce more amoebas or slugs.

If we decide to make it a hazard, we should obviously include it.


----------



## freyar (Dec 6, 2011)

Hmm, considering that the spores are 1 to 2 ft in diameter in the original monster, maybe they're not a good inhaled poison.    Let's see if Shade has an opinion before deciding.  I like the idea of a hazard, but I'm not too firm on it.


----------



## Shade (Dec 6, 2011)

I'm not bothered by including a hazard, but can just as easily live without 'em.  It's already a multi-monster entry.


----------



## Cleon (Dec 6, 2011)

freyar said:


> Hmm, considering that the spores are 1 to 2 ft in diameter in the original monster, maybe they're not a good inhaled poison.    Let's see if Shade has an opinion before deciding.  I like the idea of a hazard, but I'm not too firm on it.




Yes, I am tempted to make it a hazard too, but am unsure what nastiness it should inflict.

Maybe any living creature near an exploding Sporocarp risks getting spores attached to them, which hatch out into micro-slimes and start digesting them, and they have to be scraped off or burnt.

Basically, a low-damage version of Green Slime.


----------



## freyar (Dec 7, 2011)

Hmm, 1 Con per round?  I could do that.  If the victim dies, it grows a new colony?


----------



## Shade (Dec 7, 2011)

freyar said:


> Hmm, 1 Con per round?  I could do that.  If the victim dies, it grows a new colony?




Works for me!


----------



## Cleon (Dec 7, 2011)

Shade said:


> Works for me!




Here's an outline then:

*Slime Mold Sporocarp (CR X)*
A mature sporocarp resembles a large, dried out mushroom about *X1* feet tall. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. A dry sporocarp has vulnerability to fire. It is AC *X2* and takes *X3* hit points of damage to destroy, but any weapon damage which does not destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores scatter in a cloud covering a *Y1* foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest, doing 1 point of Constitution damage per round. The spores can be removed by *Y2* or killed by *Y3*. 

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance X. Such a sporocarp poses no threat, since its spores are not ready to reproduce.


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## freyar (Dec 8, 2011)

Looks good.  Randomly spitting out numbers:

X1=20, X2 = AC 1 as an object, but maybe add hardness 3 or 4 (just less than wood), X3 = something around 30 or 40 hp

Y1=30 ft, Y2=?, Y3=?


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## Cleon (Dec 10, 2011)

freyar said:


> Looks good.  Randomly spitting out numbers:
> 
> X1=20, X2 = AC 1 as an object, but maybe add hardness 3 or 4 (just less than wood), X3 = something around 30 or 40 hp
> 
> Y1=30 ft, Y2=?, Y3=?




The original Sporocarp is AC 4, which is fairly tough, so I'd be OK giving them hardness 4 or 5.

It also has _*20-400 hit points*_, which is 210 on average! That seems an awful lot, especially as they self-destruct when hit.

Maybe 40 hit points, since the original was 20d20?

I'm thinking scraping, fire, or _remove disease_ should be the approved method of slime-infestation.


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## freyar (Dec 11, 2011)

40 hp is ok, but I'm also ok with going higher too.  I guess they are quite tall.  Hmmm, maybe if we think of killing it like chopping down a tree, it could be more.  I mean, a 1-ft diameter tree has 120 hp to chop through.  Want to go to 100 hp?

Scraping, fire, remove disease all work for me.  

Immature sporocarps have fire resistance 5?


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## Cleon (Dec 11, 2011)

freyar said:


> 40 hp is ok, but I'm also ok with going higher too.  I guess they are quite tall.  Hmmm, maybe if we think of killing it like chopping down a tree, it could be more.  I mean, a 1-ft diameter tree has 120 hp to chop through.  Want to go to 100 hp?




I'm not that fussed either way. I suppose we should decide on how big this thing is before settling on a hit point value.



freyar said:


> Scraping, fire, remove disease all work for me.




Adapt the SRD Green Slime?
On the first round of contact, the slime can be scraped off a creature (most likely destroying the scraping device), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a patch of green slime.​On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature, but after that they must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). A _remove disease_ spell will remove a slime mold spore infestation from a victim.

That suggests the infestation needs a hit point value for it to be cut off.



freyar said:


> Immature sporocarps have fire resistance 5?




That'd suit me.


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## Shade (Dec 12, 2011)

freyar said:


> 40 hp is ok, but I'm also ok with going higher too.  I guess they are quite tall.  Hmmm, maybe if we think of killing it like chopping down a tree, it could be more.  I mean, a 1-ft diameter tree has 120 hp to chop through.  Want to go to 100 hp?




Good analogy!   Let's go the "tree" route.


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## Cleon (Dec 12, 2011)

Shade said:


> Good analogy!   Let's go the "tree" route.




So shall we give it 120 hp like the aforementioned tree? That's still less than the original's average hit points.


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## freyar (Dec 12, 2011)

120 hp seems good.  It's hard to imagine it would take more to chop it down than a medium-sized tree.

I think we can just use the exact green slime text you quited, if you just change "slime" to "spores."


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## Shade (Dec 12, 2011)

freyar said:


> 120 hp seems good.  It's hard to imagine it would take more to chop it down than a medium-sized tree.
> 
> I think we can just use the exact green slime text you quited, if you just change "slime" to "spores."




I agree with all that.


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## Cleon (Dec 13, 2011)

Shade said:


> I agree with all that.




Revising...

*Slime Mold Sporocarp (CR X)*
A mature sporocarp resembles a large, dried out mushroom about 10 feet tall. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores  about an inch long. A dry sporocarp has vulnerability to fire. It is AC 1, hardness 5, and takes 120 hit points of damage to destroy, but any weapon damage which does not  destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores.  The spores scatter in a cloud covering a 30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch  (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest,  doing 1 point of Constitution damage per round. On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature  (possibly destroying the scraping device), but after that it must be  frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well).  Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a _remove disease_  spell destroys a spore infestation. 

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus,  giving them fire resistance 5. Such a sporocarp poses no threat, since  its spores are not ready to reproduce.


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## freyar (Dec 14, 2011)

Seems pretty good, though I'm now wondering if we should swap the Con for acid damage.  Well, whatever.  Oh, why would the scaping device be destroyed if these do Con damage?

CR 2?


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## Cleon (Dec 14, 2011)

freyar said:


> Seems pretty good, though I'm now wondering if we should swap the Con for acid damage.  Well, whatever.  Oh, why would the scaping device be destroyed if these do Con damage?
> 
> CR 2?




Yes, I was wondering how to justify that.

Well, it does eat nonliving organic material and the other forms of the Slime Mold do acid damage, so acid would be justifiable.

How much damage though? 2d4 acid (only harms organic materials)?


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## freyar (Dec 14, 2011)

That seems like a reasonable amount to me.  I'd go along with that switch.


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## Shade (Dec 16, 2011)

freyar said:


> That seems like a reasonable amount to me.  I'd go along with that switch.




Ditto.


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## Cleon (Dec 16, 2011)

Shade said:


> Ditto.




So?

*Slime Mold Sporocarp (CR 1?)*
A mature sporocarp resembles a large, dried out mushroom about 10 feet  tall. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores  about  an inch long. A dry sporocarp has vulnerability to fire. It is AC 1,  hardness 5, and takes 120 hit points of damage to destroy, but any  weapon damage which does not  destroy the sporocarp causes it to split  open and release its spores.  The spores scatter in a cloud covering a  30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch   (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest,   doing 2d4 points of acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of  contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature  (exposing  the scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be  frozen, burned, or cut  away (dealing damage to the victim as well).  Anything that deals cold  or fire damage, sunlight, or a _remove disease_  spell destroys a spore infestation. 

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus,   giving them fire resistance 5. Such a sporocarp poses no threat, since   its spores are not ready to reproduce.


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## freyar (Dec 18, 2011)

That seems pretty good.  Let's call it CR 1 and move on...


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## Cleon (Dec 18, 2011)

freyar said:


> That seems pretty good.  Let's call it CR 1 and move on...




Hmm, I suppose we should add "given enough time and food, even a single spore can grow and multiply into an entire slime mold colony."

Apart from that I think we're good to go.


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## Shade (Dec 19, 2011)

Cleon said:


> Hmm, I suppose we should add "given enough time and food, even a single spore can grow and multiply into an entire slime mold colony."
> 
> Apart from that I think we're good to go.




I agree.


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## Cleon (Dec 19, 2011)

Shade said:


> I agree.




So, is this good enough for a final version?

*Slime Mold Sporocarp (CR 1)*
A mature sporocarp resembles a large, dried out mushroom about 10 feet   tall. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores  about   an inch long. A dry sporocarp has vulnerability to fire. It is AC 1,   hardness 5, and takes 120 hit points of damage to destroy, but any   weapon damage which does not  destroy the sporocarp causes it to split   open and release its spores.  The spores scatter in a cloud covering a   30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch    (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest,    doing 2d4 points of acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms  organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of   contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature  (exposing  the  scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be   frozen, burned, or cut  away (dealing damage to the victim as well).   Anything that deals cold  or fire damage, sunlight, or a _remove disease_  spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, even a single spore can grow and multiply into an entire slime mold colony. Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus,    giving them fire resistance 5. Such a sporocarp poses no threat, since    its spores are not ready to reproduce.


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## freyar (Dec 20, 2011)

Yes.  Let's move on.


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## Cleon (Dec 20, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes.  Let's move on.




So do we have anything left for them apart from flavour text?


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## freyar (Dec 21, 2011)

I don't think so, once you paste in the sporocarp.


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## Cleon (Dec 21, 2011)

freyar said:


> I don't think so, once you paste in the sporocarp.




  Updating *Working Draft* with Pastie Sporocarp.


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## freyar (Dec 22, 2011)

Looks good.

Starting on tactics:

Amoeboid slime molds attack instinctively, slamming and attempting to grab onto opponents, digesting them slowly with acid.


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## Cleon (Dec 22, 2011)

freyar said:


> Looks good.
> 
> Starting on tactics:
> 
> Amoeboid slime molds attack instinctively, slamming and attempting to grab onto opponents, digesting them slowly with acid.




I'd prefer the prettier syntax of the following:

Amoeboid slime molds attack instinctively, attempting to slam and grab onto opponents, then digesting them slowly with acid.


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## freyar (Dec 24, 2011)

That's fine with me.  Next:

Amoeboid swarms of slime mold simply crawl over their opponents.  ???

Slime mold slugs attack potential food sources agressively, engulfing as many opponents as possible and bashing the rest.


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## Cleon (Dec 24, 2011)

freyar said:


> That's fine with me.  Next:
> 
> Amoeboid swarms of slime mold simply crawl over their opponents.  ???
> 
> Slime mold slugs attack potential food sources agressively, engulfing as many opponents as possible and bashing the rest.




Swarms of amoeboid slime molds instinctively crawl over the most edible object they sense, usually the nearest living creature, and digest it with their acids.

A slime mold slug tries to slam, grab, and engulf as many opponents as it can accommodate. It may need to digest food it has already engulfed before it can engulf additional opponents it has grabbed.


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## freyar (Dec 25, 2011)

That'll do.


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## Cleon (Dec 27, 2011)

freyar said:


> That'll do.




Updating *Working Draft*.

I'm thinking it makes most sense to blend the background text into one entry, since each form is a different stage in the lifecycle.


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## freyar (Dec 29, 2011)

Yes.  Can we get away with calling them "fungus" or "fungoid" since they're oozes and not plants?  I guess I would just say

Slime molds are single-celled fungi that spend most of their life-cycle as amoeba-like scavengers, which may appear in swarms.  As food becomes scarce, the amoeboid slime molds gather and conglomerate into a single large slug, which is strong enough to find more sources of nourishment.  Eventually, the slug forms a sporocarp, a rigid structure full of spores that can populate a new colony when conditions are favorable.

Or something like that, you know.


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## Cleon (Dec 29, 2011)

freyar said:


> Yes.  Can we get away with calling them "fungus" or "fungoid" since they're oozes and not plants?  I guess I would just say
> 
> Slime molds are single-celled fungi that spend most of their life-cycle as amoeba-like scavengers, which may appear in swarms.  As food becomes scarce, the amoeboid slime molds gather and conglomerate into a single large slug, which is strong enough to find more sources of nourishment.  Eventually, the slug forms a sporocarp, a rigid structure full of spores that can populate a new colony when conditions are favorable.
> 
> Or something like that, you know.




Slime Molds are a member of the Amoeba group, the Amoebozoa. They aren't fungi. Indeed, the Fungal Kingdom is more closely related to the Animal Kingdom than it is to the Amoebozoa.

How about...

Slime molds are a kind of amoeba with a complicated lifecycle. Each organism is a single-celled blob of protoplasm hereafter called an "amoeboid slime mold". These amoeboids seek out organic material to digest and reproduce by splitting in two. Slime mold can grow very quickly, a single amoeboid will become an amoeboid slime mold swarm within a few days, assuming there is enough food. Once the slime molds start to exhaust their food supply, the swarm (or swarms) conglomerate into a single mass called a "slug", which is hardy enough to seek out more sources of nourishment. Eventually, the slug forms itself into a "sporocarp", a rigid structure full of spores  that resembles a dried-out mushroom. When conditions are favorable, the sporocarp releases its spores, a single one of which can populate an entire new colony.


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## freyar (Dec 31, 2011)

Interesting, didn't realize about that taxonomic change...  Neat.

Anyway, that looks pretty good there.  Are these done once that flavor's plugged in?


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## Cleon (Dec 31, 2011)

freyar said:


> Interesting, didn't realize about that taxonomic change...  Neat.
> 
> Anyway, that looks pretty good there.  Are these done once that flavor's plugged in?




 Updating *Working Draft*.

It's missing a description and we could add some sizes and weights.


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## freyar (Jan 2, 2012)

10-15 lb for the Tiny amoeboid ones and something of the order 500-1000 lb for the Large slugs?


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## Cleon (Jan 2, 2012)

freyar said:


> 10-15 lb for the Tiny amoeboid ones and something of the order 500-1000 lb for the Large slugs?




That's too light going by the weight of the SRD Large Oozes (15,000 lbs for Gelatinous Cube, 5,600 lbs for Ochre Jelly). The Ochre Jelly seems the best match, suggesting the Slug should weigh around 5000-6000 pounds.

The Slug is a condensed Swarm, and according to the SRD Tiny nonflying Swarms contain 300 individuals. If it weighs 6000 lbs each amoeboid would weigh about 20 pounds.

Alternatively, a Large creature normally weighs about 512 times as much as a Large creature going by the standard size rules. If we make the amoeboid weigh 10-15 pounds then the Slug should weigh about 5000-7500 pounds ,or 3000-4500 if we use the standard "300 creatures per swarm rule".

So, like this:

Amoeboid slime molds normally spread their amorphous bodies to a diameter of about 2 feet with a thickness less than an inch, but can  compress themselves into a clump up to 3 inches thick. A typical  specimen weighs 10 to 15 pounds.

A slime mold slug is usually about 20 feet long, 5 to 10 feet wide and 1 or 2 feet thick. It can spread its slimy gestalt body into a 20 diameter disc up to a foot thick, or condense into a lump 10 feet across and up to 4 feet tall. A typical specimen weighs 5000 to 7500 pounds.


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## freyar (Jan 3, 2012)

That will work for me.


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## Cleon (Jan 3, 2012)

freyar said:


> That will work for me.




  Updating *Working Draft*.


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## freyar (Jan 4, 2012)

Anyone have a description?  

"A large blob of amorphous slime."  Will that work?


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## Cleon (Jan 4, 2012)

freyar said:


> Anyone have a description?
> 
> "A large blob of amorphous slime."  Will that work?




_A brightly colored blob of slime?_

Slime mold is often strikingly coloured. I'd better add a "Many slime molds are strikingly colored in yellow, white, or orange-brown. They may be a single uniform color, or a patchwork mass of different colors or shades."


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## Shade (Jan 4, 2012)

Cleon said:


> _A brightly colored blob of slime?_
> 
> Slime mold is often strikingly coloured. I'd better add a "Many slime molds are strikingly colored in yellow, white, or orange-brown. They may be a single uniform color, or a patchwork mass of different colors or shades."




Sounds good, especially the last word.


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## freyar (Jan 5, 2012)

Hah!  That works for me.

Are there other slime molds in that article?  The original monster read like there might be more varieties.


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## Cleon (Jan 6, 2012)

freyar said:


> Hah!  That works for me.




   Updating *Working Draft*.     



freyar said:


> Are there other slime molds in that article?  The original monster read like there might be more varieties.




There's Protiston. The unique hive-intelligent chaotic evil spellcasting slime mold.


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## freyar (Jan 7, 2012)

Ready to move on?


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## Cleon (Jan 7, 2012)

freyar said:


> Ready to move on?




Sure.

There isn't much to go on for Protiston though, it just says it's highly intelligent, casts spells as a 12th level MU, and can somehow "giantize" microorganisms.


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## freyar (Jan 8, 2012)

That really isn't much.

Well, is it more like a slime mold swarm or slime mold slug, do you think?


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## Cleon (Jan 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> That really isn't much.
> 
> Well, is it more like a slime mold swarm or slime mold slug, do you think?




Here's everything the article's got on it:
One creation I’ve developed that may serve to introduce giant single-celled beasts to a campaign is Protiston, who may or may not exist at the option of the DM. Protiston is giant slime mold, a type of creature (described below) which alternates between being a swarm of individual amoebae and a colony that looks like a large, distorted mushroom. Each individual amoebal cell carries a certain amount of information, so Protiston functions much like a very slow computer.

Protiston (as it was named by the mage who discovered it) began as a simple collection of single-celled creatures in a large body of water, such as a sea or an ocean. At some some point in the distant past, Protiston became so large and complex that it acquired intelligence, and slowly thereafter gained magical skills. Being of such an alien intelligence, Protiston has no understanding at all of “normal” human thought, and regards everything around it as either a food source or “hostile environment” to be overcome and destroyed. No one knows for sure, but the chaotic evil alignment detected from Protiston may stem from either Protiston’s innate disregard for all other forms of life, or from some form of association with the demon prince Juiblex (which might explain how Protiston gained spellcasting abilities). Little else is known of this being’s origins or intent, save that it wishes to “eat” the entire world or shape it to benefit itself. Few beings are even aware that this creature exists — and few who have found it have lived to tell about it later.

As presently constituted, Protiston inhabits the interior of a large coral atoll (or a calm, shoreline cavern, if placed in an inland sea by the DM). Numerous support colonies of amoebae may be found around it. Although a single thought in Protiston’s “mind” may take anywhere from a few seconds to a few weeks to complete, Protiston is highly intelligent and has gained the powers of a 12th-level magic-user, being able to cast spells like _push_, _shield_, _continual darkness/light_, _ray of enfeeblement_, _stinking cloud_ (above water), _hold person_, _protection from normal missiles_, _slow_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _plant growth_, _cloudkill_ (above water), _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, and _control weather_. Other spells may be possible, but no spell will be used that involves fire or that considers other beings to be intelligent (such as _charm_ spells). Select Protiston’s spells as if it were the only intelligent being around, and everything it might encounter was a mindless food source or part of the environment.

In addition to spell-casting abilities, Protiston is somehow able to magically or biologically increase the size of single-celled creatures, using these creatures as guards and helpers. Note that among these creatures, only Protiston is evil. The others are all neutral and unintelligent, and work to Protiston’s advantage only according to circumstances.”

***

Protiston should be regarded as an advanced form of Dictyostelium, having maximum hit points at any stage. About 30 colonies of Dictyostelium make up the whole of Protiston, and each is scattered up to 300’ apart across several caves or atolls. The power of Protiston’s magic may vary from place to place, depending on the number of colonies in the area, but would be powerful in the sporocarp stage. Protiston may be considered psionic as well (developed as the DM wishes).​


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## freyar (Jan 8, 2012)

Sounds like it needs two stat blocks, swarm form and slug form.


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## Cleon (Jan 9, 2012)

freyar said:


> Sounds like it needs two stat blocks, swarm form and slug form.




Does the "30 colonies" mean it's a hive creature made from thirty swarms/slugs?


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## freyar (Jan 13, 2012)

We've got 


> Protiston is giant slime mold, a type of creature (described below) which alternates between being a swarm of individual amoebae and a colony that looks like a large, distorted mushroom. Each individual amoebal cell carries a certain amount of information, so Protiston functions much like a very slow computer.



and


> About 30 colonies of Dictyostelium make up the whole of Protiston, and each is scattered up to 300’ apart across several caves or atolls. The power of Protiston’s magic may vary from place to place, depending on the number of colonies in the area, but would be powerful in the sporocarp stage.




We seem to have some freedom there.  The simplest thing to do would probably be to make a single swarm that takes up a large space along with a really big slug (even sporocarp).  However, the swarm rules only allow a 10 ft space, and the variation of magical power might argue for X independent swarms with a group hive mind, where X=30 at present.


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## Cleon (Jan 14, 2012)

freyar said:


> We seem to have some freedom there.  The simplest thing to do would probably be to make a single swarm that takes up a large space along with a really big slug (even sporocarp).  However, the swarm rules only allow a 10 ft space, and the variation of magical power might argue for X independent swarms with a group hive mind, where X=30 at present.




I'm leaning towards some kind of gestalt hive-mind approach, but it might become a bit complicated.


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## freyar (Jan 16, 2012)

Here's a thought inspired by the false Keraptis sock puppets or whatever they were called.

What if we make "Protistron segment" a template that can apply to a usual slime mold swarm or slug?  Essentially, that would grant it a Hive Mind and some spellcasting ability that scales with the number of other segments in the vicinity.


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## Cleon (Jan 17, 2012)

freyar said:


> Here's a thought inspired by the false Keraptis sock puppets or whatever they were called.
> 
> What if we make "Protistron segment" a template that can apply to a usual slime mold swarm or slug?  Essentially, that would grant it a Hive Mind and some spellcasting ability that scales with the number of other segments in the vicinity.




I'm dubious about us having to make it a template. Why not just add those traits to the base slime mold and call it a "Protiston"?

It'd probably also be able to sense through any individual slime mold amoebas within range.


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## Cleon (Jan 17, 2012)

Come to think of it, the flavour text says that Protiston gets more intelligent the more of it there is concentrated in one place.

Therefore, if we have each element cast spells as a Wizard, its Intelligence-dependent spellcasting will automatically increase the more other elements are in its vicinity, just from it having a higher Int score.


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## freyar (Jan 17, 2012)

Good point, no need to make it a template.  But essentially make it a swarm/slug that has a hive mind with the rest of the Protiston slugs.  

I agree that the Int increase will boost the casting, but it sounds like there's probably a CL increase also....


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## Shade (Jan 18, 2012)

I'd prefer to make it a Colossal epic creature, similar to the genius loci.


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## Cleon (Jan 18, 2012)

freyar said:


> Good point, no need to make it a template.  But essentially make it a swarm/slug that has a hive mind with the rest of the Protiston slugs.
> 
> I agree that the Int increase will boost the casting, but it sounds like there's probably a CL increase also....




I don't mind giving them a boost on the CL effectiveness of their spells, but I don't want us to have to recalculate a new caster level whenever they add or remove a cluster from their hive mind!


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## freyar (Jan 19, 2012)

Shade makes an interesting point about the genius loci, but can we do that for the swarm?  It would certainly be easiest to stick to 1 statblock.


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## Cleon (Jan 20, 2012)

freyar said:


> Shade makes an interesting point about the genius loci, but can we do that for the swarm?  It would certainly be easiest to stick to 1 statblock.




Not in favor of the Genius Loci form, since the original split itself up into separate bodies.

We can easily make it a single statblock by just giving it a "Swarm form" special quality that gives it some of the abilities of a swarm - distraction, the ability to reshape its Space, and the ability to squeeze through anywhere that a Tiny creature could fit.


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## freyar (Jan 21, 2012)

You mean, essentially a swarm, but with a Colossal space, rather than the 10 ft. square.  That's essentially the generalization of the genius loci; you can have the swarm, the "swarm of slugs," and the super-slug.


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## Cleon (Jan 21, 2012)

freyar said:


> You mean, essentially a swarm, but with a Colossal space, rather than the 10 ft. square.  That's essentially the generalization of the genius loci; you can have the swarm, the "swarm of slugs," and the super-slug.




There's nothing in the Epic SRD rules about a Genius Loci being able to freely reshape its Space like a Swarm does.

I'd like to have it be able to divide its body into 30 or so Large slime molds, or merge them all together into a single titanic slime mold (60 ft. by 50 ft.?), while still being treated as a single creature in some respects. e.g. when it casts spells only 1 part of itself produces the spell (although if it casts it on itself it'll affect every part).


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## freyar (Jan 23, 2012)

I'm not saying (and I don't think Shade is either) to make it precisely like a genius loci.  But it needs a really big swarm version.  Something that can't be handled by the normal rules for swarms.  It should be able to be a really big swarm spread over an entire island.  Or else a "colony" of swarms.


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## Cleon (Jan 24, 2012)

freyar said:


> I'm not saying (and I don't think Shade is either) to make it precisely like a genius loci.  But it needs a really big swarm version.  Something that can't be handled by the normal rules for swarms.  It should be able to be a really big swarm spread over an entire island.  Or else a "colony" of swarms.




Methinks it'd be clearer if I wrote out a Working Draft with an some proposals. That might help us figure out what everyone actually wants out of them!


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## Cleon (Jan 24, 2012)

*Protiston Working Draft*

*Protiston
*Colossal Ooze (Aquatic)
*Hit Dice:* 77d10+1001 (1424 hp)
*Initiative:* +3
*Speed:* 20 ft. (4 squares), climb 10 ft., swim 10 ft.
*Armor Class:* -3 (-8 size, -5 Dex), touch -3, flat-footed -3
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +57/+86
*Attack:* Slam +63 melee (6d6+13 plus 6d6 acid/19-20; 13d6+26 plus 12d6 acid and DC 61 Fort save to avoid instant death on critical hit)
*Full Attack:* Slam (6d6+13 plus 6d6 acid; 13d6+26 plus 12d6 acid and DC 61 Fort save to avoid instant death on critical hit)
*Space/Reach:* 50 ft./40 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Acid, create macrobes, engulf, engulfing grab, self-division, spells
*Special Qualities:* Amphibious, blind, blindsight 60 ft., half damage from slashing or piercing, ooze traits, swarmlike, vulnerability to fire
*Saves:* Fort +40, Ref +26, Will +33
*Abilities:* Str 36, Dex 1, Con 36, Int 22, Wis 18, Cha 21
*Skills:* Climb +21, Concentration +52, Hide +30, Knowledge (arcana) +42,  Knowledge (dungeoneering) +42, Listen +42, Move Silently +35, Spellcraft  +54, Spot +42, Survival +5 (+7 underground), Swim +21
*Feats:* Automatic Quicken Spell (×3), Cleave, Devastating Critical (slam), Enlarge Spell, Epic  Reflexes, Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft), Epic Spellcasting, Epic Will, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical  (slam), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Maximize Spell,  Multispell (×2), Overwhelming Critical (slam), Perfect Health, Power Attack, Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Still  Spell, Superior Initiative, Weapon Focus (slam)
*Environment:* Any aquatic, forest, swamp, and underground
*Organization:* Solitary
*Challenge Rating:* 27
*Treasure:* None
*Alignment:* Always chaotic neutral
*Advancement**:* —
*Level Adjustment:* —

_A roiling sea of vile slime, it flows apart and blends together so  chaotically it's impossible to tell if it's one creature or a hundred._

Protiston is a vast slime mold of enormous age which has developed   terrible spellcasting powers and a formidable, albeit highly alien,   intelligence. The mage who discovered and named Protiston claims that it  slowly  evolved from a simple colony of mold floating in some ancient   sea.  Other sages speculate that the demon Juiblex, the Faceless Lord,  had a  hand (or pseudopod) in Protistion's elevation.

Protiston is unable to comprehend even the possibility  that anything  other than itself might possess sentience. Everything it  encounters is  either food to be devoured, or a hostile environmental  phenomena to be  destroyed or reshaped to Protiston's benefit. Protiston wishes to  reshape the entire world to benefit itself. It has  the ability to  transform ordinary microbial life into giant "macrobes" under its  control. It has no more regard for the lives of these macrobes than it  does for the rest of existence — they are nothing more than tools to  feed its hunger and guard its treasure.

Protiston can move on land but lives in water. It may be found in the   sea or freshwater lakes, most often lairing in coral atolls or caverns   along the shoreline. Whatever place Protiston chooses as its home is   only temporary, the sapient slime mold always moves on sooner or later.   Sometimes this is because Protiston's devoured everything in its   habitat, or it may have finished "reshaping" an area to its tastes and  moved on to other project, or perhaps the chaotic creature decides to  relocate on a whim. In adverse conditions, Protiston can turn part or  all of its body into a sporocarp and wait for better times. Even the  smallest piece of Protiston is part of the whole, the slime mold can  regrow to full power even if all of its body is destroyed apart from a  single amoeboid cell.

Protiston can reshape the slime of its body in any shape it desires, it  can even split itself into many parts and rejoin together again. Most  commonly, it takes the form of a small island of slime up to 80 feet  across and 20 or 30 feet thick. Protiston typically weighs between 1200  and 2000 tons.

*Macrobe:* A macrobe is a microbe that has been magically  transformed from a microscopic organism into a giant single-celled  creature. Many macrobes have been created by Protiston, but they can also be produced by arcane experiments or exotic  supernatural phenomena. Normal macrobes breed true, and can quickly spread  more of their kind. Protiston is a unique entity and any "offspring" it produces are ordinary giant slime molds.

*Combat*
 Protiston does not usually interact with intruders in its domain,   typically sending its macrobe servitors to investigate any disturbance.    If they do not suffice, however, Protiston will attack with a  devastating combination of physical force and spells. Protiston's triple  Automatic Quicken Spell feats allow it to cast any of its spells as  quickened spells, while its twin Multispell feats mean it can cast up to  4 quickened spells in a round while simultaneously making a full  attack.

Protiston can use its self-division ability to surround or outflank  opponents. It always sequesters at least 1 small portion of its body in a  safe place, so it can regrow if the rest of its body is destroyed.

*Acid (Ex):* Protiston's acid does not harm metal or stone.

*Control Ooze (Su):* Protiston can telepathically command mindless  oozes within 400 ft.  This ability effectively programs the oozes as if  they were mindless undead or constructs. Protiston can control up to 38 HD of oozes.

*Create Macrobes (Su):* Once per day, Protiston can permanently  transform ordinary microbes into giant microorganisms. Protiston can  create up to 38 HD of macrobes, of any size or type it chooses. For  example, it might create a 16 HD Huge slime mold slug, a giant gonyaulax  swarm (13 HD), and three 3 HD giant elphidium.

*Engulf (Ex):* Protiston can simply mow down smaller  creatures as a standard action. It can make a slam attack and an engulf  attack in the same round as a full round action. Protiston merely has to  move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents  can make opportunity attacks against Protiston, but if they do so they  are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of  opportunity must succeed on a DC 61 Reflex save or be engulfed; on a  success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent's choice) as Protiston  moves forward. Engulfed creatures take 6d6+13 bludgeoning damage plus  6d6 acid damage, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within Protiston's body. The save DC is Strength-based.

*Engulfing Grab (Ex):*  To use this ability, Protiston must hit with its slam attack. It can  then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an  attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a  hold and can attempt to engulf its opponent (see below) as a free  action. Protiston can choose not to engulf an opponent if it wishes to,  and can release a creature it has already engulfed (as a free action) if  it needs to make room to engulf a new opponent. Protiston has a +4  racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base  Attack/Grapple entry above).

*Self-Division (Ex):* Protiston can divide its body into multiple pieces, or recombine pieces of itself into one, as part of any move action it takes. Protiston's body occupies one hundred 5 ft. squares. When it splits into pieces it must divide these 5 ft. squares and hit points between its pieces. Protiston cannot split off a piece of itself smaller than Large size (four 5 ft. squares), and each piece must have at least 14 hit points per 5 ft. square, but apart from that Protiston can divide itself however it chooses. If pieces of Protiston recombine, add up their current hit points and number of 5 ft. squares to determine the combined piece's size and hit points.

All pieces of Protiston need to stay within 1000 ft. of each other. If  any piece strays outside that distance, it becomes mindless and must  succeed at a  Will saves every round (DC 20 +1 per round of isolation) or transform  into a giant slime mold slug of the same size and hit points. Until that  happens, an isolated piece will instinctively seek to rejoin the rest  of Protiston, attacking anything that gets in its way.

Protiston acts as a single entity even if it is divided into dozens of  pieces, for the separate parts are in constant communication. Thus, if Protiston makes a move action all of its pieces can move, if it makes a standard attack all of its pieces can attack. If Protiston casts a spell, only one of its pieces casts the spell, but if Protiston cast the spell on itself it can affect either the target piece or all of its pieces. Attacks that affect a piece of Protiston are only able to harm that piece - e.g. petrifying a separate piece of the creature will not turn the other pieces into stone.

Protiston's mind is evenly divided amongst its body, so the smaller a  piece of Protiston is the less intelligence it has, which means the  smaller a piece of Protiston is the less potent its spell casting  ability is (see spells, below, for details).

The following table gives attributes for pieces of Protiston, depending on their number of 5 ft. squares.

*Number
 of 5 ft. . . . . . . . Grapple **. .**. Damage**. . . . Mental . . Spell
**Squares .. Size . . AC** . Mod **. . **. **(Engulf DC).** . Penalty***. Penalty***
4-8 . . . Large . .. 4 . +72 .  2d6+5 & 2d6 acid (43) . -15 . . -4
9-15 . . . Huge . .. 3 . +76 . 3d6+7 & 3d6 acid (45) . -10 . . -3
16-35 . Gargantuan . 1 . +80 . 4d6+9 & 4d6 acid (47) .. -5 . . -2
36-49 .. Colossal . -3 . +84 . 5d6+11 & 5d6 acid (49) . -2 . . -1
50+ . .. Colossal+. -3 . +86 . 6d6+13 & 6d6 acid (51) . +0 . . +0

*Apply this penalty to any Int-, Wis- or Cha-based skill check taken by the piece of Protiston.
**Apply this penalty to the DC and caster level of any spell cast by the piece of Protiston.     

*Spells:* Protiston casts spells as an 18th-level sorcerer. It never casts spells with the Fire descriptor.

_Typical Spells Known_ (6/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/5/3; save DC 15 + spell level)

0th - _ acid splash_, _dancing lights_, _detect magic_, _ghost sound_, _light_, _mage hand_, _open/close_, _read magic_, _resistance_;
1st - _expeditious retreat_, _grease_, _ray of enfeeblement_, _protection from law,_ _shield_;
2nd - _eagle's splendor_, _levitate_, _resist energy_, _protection from arrows_, _web;_
3rd - _blacklight_, _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_;
4th - _black tentacles_, _contagion_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _solid fog_;
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_;
6th - _freezing sphere_, _antimagic field_,  _disintegrate_;
7th - _control weather_, _finger of death_, _grasping hand_;
8th - _horrid wilting_, _polymorph any object_;
9th - _wail of the banshee_.

_Epic Spells:_ Protiston is capable of casting epic spells. It has 3 epic spell slots   per day. Its immensely long life gives Protiston plenty of time to   develop epic spells. It prefers epic spells of Transformation or   Conjuration, and never develops an epic spell that does fire damage.   Typical epic spells for Protiston are _create living vault_, _raise island_,_ mass blob_ (as the epic spell _mass frog_, except it turns targets into Tiny-sized amoeboid slime molds) and _slime tsunami _(as the epic spell _verdigris_, except it overgrows the area with slimy bacterial mats instead of plants).

*Sporocarp (Ex):* As a full round action, Protiston can form its  body into sporocarps — objects  that resemble mushrooms. It can use its   Self-Division ability to form a part or parts of its body into  sporocarps while the rest of its body remains in its normal slime form.

A sporocarp has AC 1, hardness 10, and the same hit points and  spellcasting ability as a normal piece of Protiston and it gains  Automatic Silent Spell (x3) and Automatic Still Spell  (x3) as bonus  feats while in sporocarp form. It is incapable of moving (so has speed 0  ft. and cannot make physical attacks), but has full use of its senses  and mental abilities. A sporocarp is twice as tall  as the reach of the  equivalently sized piece of Protiston.

Newly formed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus,  giving  them fire resistance 10. After 2d6 minutes the sporocarp will mature,  drying out and gaining vulnerability to fire.

The "mushroom" head  of a mature sporocarp is hollow and filled with  spores about an inch long. Any weapon damage which does not destroy a  mature sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The  spores  scatter in a cloud covering a radius equal to 30 foot or the  sporocarp's height, whichever is greater. The spores in this cloud  attach themselves to  any organic matter they touch (including living  creatures), which they  immediately start to digest, doing acid damage  equal to an equivalently  sized piece of Protiston (see Self-Division,  above). This acid damage only harms organic  materials such as flesh or  wood. On the first round of contact, the  spores can be scraped off a  creature (exposing the scraping device to  the spores' acid damage), but  after that it must be frozen, burned, or  cut away (dealing damage to  the victim as well). Anything that deals  cold or fire damage, sunlight,  or a _remove disease_ spell destroys a  spore infestation.

The spores will form Protiston cells and eventually regrow Protiston's  slime-body. How long it takes for the spores to grow varies greatly and  depends on  the size of regrowth, the food supply, and the degree of  humidity and warmth. The process typically takes 1d4 hours to regrow a  few 5-foot squares, but it may take up to 1d10+10 days to regrow Protiston's entire body from a single spore.

*Swarmlike (Ex):* Protiston,  like all slime molds, is not  truly a single creature but is a  cooperative of myriads of amoeba-like  creatures. As such, it has some  of the traits of a swarm. Unlike other creatures whose space occupies  more than one square, Protiston is shapeable. It  can occupy any  contiguous squares, and it  can squeeze through any  space large enough  to contain Tiny creatures. It can  occupy the same space as  a creature  of any size, since it crawls all  over its prey.

*Skills:* Protiston has a +8 racial bonus on Climb checks and can always choose to take 10 on Climb checks, even if rushed or threatened. Protiston has a +8 racial bonus on any Swim check to perform some special action or avoid a hazard and can always take 10 on Swim checks, even if distracted or endangered.

_Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine 111 (“Microscopic monsters - When they get bigger, they get a lot tougher” by Kent Colbath, July 1986)._


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## GrayLinnorm (Jan 24, 2012)

Cleon said:


> *Protiston*
> *Treasure:* None [*?*]




I think the original description for one these creatures said it was used by Protiston to guard its treasures.


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## freyar (Jan 24, 2012)

This seems like a good start, but we're going to need to figure out the transformation into slugs, etc.  Is it each piece that can turn into a slug of appropriate size/HD?


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## Cleon (Jan 25, 2012)

freyar said:


> This seems like a good start, but we're going to need to figure out the transformation into slugs, etc.  Is it each piece that can turn into a slug of appropriate size/HD?




I was thinking it might be easier to just add a Slam attack and say it's a Swarm and a Slug *at the same time!* 

Then we only need to give it an "encyst" type special quality for when it turns into Sporocarps.


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## freyar (Jan 25, 2012)

??????????????

****BOOOOMMMMM****

Sorry, let me gather the pieces of my head back together.


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## Cleon (Jan 26, 2012)

freyar said:


> ??????????????
> 
> ****BOOOOMMMMM****
> 
> Sorry, let me gather the pieces of my head back together.




It just seems easier combining the slime mold slug and swarm abilities into one creature, then the DM doesn't need to keep track of whether a particular piece of Protiston is currently a slug or swarm.

The Sporocarp is easier, since the pieces that form sporocarps would stay like that until they explode!

Speaking of which, the Protiston sporocarps ought to be far nastier than the regular Sporocarp hazard...


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## Shade (Jan 26, 2012)

freyar said:


> ??????????????
> 
> ****BOOOOMMMMM****
> 
> Sorry, let me gather the pieces of my head back together.




So you're currently in swarm form attempting to rejoin into a slug?


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## Cleon (Jan 27, 2012)

Shade said:


> So you're currently in swarm form attempting to rejoin into a slug?




No, I think he was in Sporocarp form and someone bumped into him.


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## freyar (Jan 28, 2012)

I just don't see how engulf and splatter-split fit into a swarm thing.  I think the DM is going to have to keep track if they're using this critter.


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## Cleon (Jan 28, 2012)

freyar said:


> I just don't see how engulf and splatter-split fit into a swarm thing.  I think the DM is going to have to keep track if they're using this critter.




I like the Engulf, since Protiston's "swarm body" could easily be coherent enough it can seize hold of creatures inside it.

 I wasn't decided about the Splatter-Split though, so I'm fine dropping that if Shade's OK with it. Assuming Protiston has complete control over its "Slugswarm" body, if it does get hit hard enough to splatter it is likely to immediately reform itself.

So, are we giving it a Slam attack as well? If so, how much damage do you fancy - I'm OK with 4d6+19 plus 6d6 acid. Of course, it'd scale down with smaller portions of itself:

*Number
 of 5 ft. . . . . . . . Grapple .. Damage** .. Engulf . Mental
Squares .. Size . . AC . Mod . Slam . Swarm . DC . . Penalty***
*4-8 . . . Large . .. 4 . +72 .  1d6+7 .. 2d6 . 43 . . . -15
9-15 . . . Huge . .. 3 . +76 . 1d8+10 . 3d6 . 45 . . . -10
16-35 . Gargantuan . 1 . +80 . 2d6+13 . 4d6 . 47 . . . -5
36-49 .. Colossal . -3 . +84 . 3d6+16 . 5d6 . 49 . . . -2
50+ . .. Colossal++ -3 . +86 . 4d6+19 . 6d6 . 51 . . . +0


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## freyar (Jan 31, 2012)

I think I don't understand how you are imagining it.  It sounds to me like you are thinking of it as a sort-of fluid-like incoherent slug.  In that case, having engulf plus the swarm damage is redundant, since swarm is more or less the same as engulf, Protiston moving over the victim.

I think I'd prefer the two distinct forms.  I'm ok with the "slugswarm," but we need to be crystal clear about what we're doing.


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## Cleon (Feb 1, 2012)

freyar said:


> I think I don't understand how you are imagining it.  It sounds to me like you are thinking of it as a sort-of fluid-like incoherent slug.  In that case, having engulf plus the swarm damage is redundant, since swarm is more or less the same as engulf, Protiston moving over the victim.
> 
> I think I'd prefer the two distinct forms.  I'm ok with the "slugswarm," but we need to be crystal clear about what we're doing.




I prefer a "slugswarm". The reason I like Engulf is that I like it treating Engulfed creatures as grappled. I'd be satisfied if you incorporate the "treat as grappled" into its swarmlike ability or give it a variation on Improved Grab, e.g.:

_*Option #1*_
*Engulfing Grab (Ex):* Any creature hit by protiston's slam or swarm attack must succeed at a DC X Reflex save or be enveloped in protiston's protoplasm (unless Protiston choose not to engulf the grabbed creature). Engulfed creatures are subject to protiston's swarm attack, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within its body. *[*_Hmm, I forgot about the Slime Mold Slug's +4 racial bonus to grapple. Shall we give Protiston that?_*] *Protiston has a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

_*Option #2*_
*Swarmlike (Ex):* Protiston, like all slime molds, is not truly a  single creature but is a cooperative of myriads of amoeba-like  creatures. As such, it has some of the traits of a swarm.

Protiston has a swarm attack. To use this attack, protiston must move  into opponents' spaces,  which provokes an attack of opportunity. Opponents hit by protiston's swarm attack must succeed at a DC X Reflex save or are considered to be grappled and trapped within its  body. It can  occupy the same space as  a creature of any size, since it crawls all  over its prey.Protiston can not make attacks of opportunity with its  swarm attack, but it could make attacks of opportunity with another  attack, such as a touch spells. 

     Unlike other creatures whose space occupies more than one square,  protiston is shapeable. It  can occupy any contiguous squares, and it  can squeeze through any  space large enough to contain Tiny creatures.

I prefer option #1.


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## freyar (Feb 5, 2012)

I like option #1 well enough if you call it "Grabbing Swarm" or some such to indicate that it's a property of the swarm attack.

That said, I feel like this is getting pretty weird.  I'd like to have Shade's opinion.


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## Cleon (Feb 5, 2012)

freyar said:


> I like option #1 well enough if you call it "Grabbing Swarm" or some such to indicate that it's a property of the swarm attack.




Hmm, I'd prefer "Swarming Grab" or "Engulfing Swarm" if you want a swarm in the name.

It's not _just_ a property of the swarm though, it also happens with a slam attack.


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## freyar (Feb 8, 2012)

Oh, good grief, I'd missed the slam part.  But it's not a grab in the usual sense, or an engulf if we do that.

I'd still prefer two distinct forms, as I'm finding this pretty complicated.  How can it swarm and slam at the same time?  It should either be a cohesive ooze or not.  [MENTION=287]Shade[/MENTION], can you take a look at this?


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## Cleon (Feb 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> Oh, good grief, I'd missed the slam part.  But it's not a grab in the usual sense, or an engulf if we do that.
> 
> I'd still prefer two distinct forms, as I'm finding this pretty complicated.  How can it swarm and slam at the same time?  It should either be a cohesive ooze or not.   @Shade , can you take a look at this?




Statting up multiple forms would make it more complicated, surely. It'd have two statblocks to keep track off.

I like it as a solid swarm/incoherent ooze.


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## freyar (Feb 9, 2012)

It would be more complicated to type out, easier to use and keep track of.  

OK, here's a compromise: make one statblock.  But, let's state that it has 2 distinct forms, maybe an alternate form type ability.  So it has some separate SAs and SQs in each form.  I just don't like giving it both a slam and swarm attack at the same time.  That doesn't make much sense to me; if it's solid enough to slam, it's not incoherent enough to swarm you the way we normally think of it.


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## Shade (Feb 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> It would be more complicated to type out, easier to use and keep track of.
> 
> OK, here's a compromise: make one statblock.  But, let's state that it has 2 distinct forms, maybe an alternate form type ability.  So it has some separate SAs and SQs in each form.  I just don't like giving it both a slam and swarm attack at the same time.  That doesn't make much sense to me; if it's solid enough to slam, it's not incoherent enough to swarm you the way we normally think of it.




Good idea.  I favor this approach.


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## Cleon (Feb 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> It would be more complicated to type out, easier to use and keep track of.
> 
> OK, here's a compromise: make one statblock.  But, let's state that it has 2 distinct forms, maybe an alternate form type ability.  So it has some separate SAs and SQs in each form.  I just don't like giving it both a slam and swarm attack at the same time.  That doesn't make much sense to me; if it's solid enough to slam, it's not incoherent enough to swarm you the way we normally think of it.




Why? A wave can have impact enough to do damage while being fluid enough to engulf you. Have either of you seen the 80s remake of The Blob? That ooze didn't have any problems engulfing and lashing with a pseudopod at the same time!

But if it bothers you both, it's easy enough to write it up so it doesn't make Slam and Swarm attacks in the same round.


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## Shade (Feb 13, 2012)

Cleon said:


> Why? A wave can have impact enough to do damage while being fluid enough to engulf you. Have either of you seen the 80s remake of The Blob? That ooze didn't have any problems engulfing and lashing with a pseudopod at the same time!
> 
> But if it bothers you both, it's easy enough to write it up so it doesn't make Slam and Swarm attacks in the same round.




I honestly have no problem with a slam and engulf in the same round...it's the "swarm attack" I find bothersome.  Just give it good ol' engulf and I'm happy.


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## Cleon (Feb 13, 2012)

Shade said:


> I honestly have no problem with a slam and engulf in the same round...it's the "swarm attack" I find bothersome.  Just give it good ol' engulf and I'm happy.




I suspect we're arguing about terminology here more than the actual mechanics.

How about this:

*Attack:* Slam (6d6+13 plus 6d6 acid)

*Engulf (Ex):* Protiston can simply mow down smaller creatures as a standard action. It can make a slam attack and an engulf attack in the same round as a full round action. Protiston merely has to move over the opponents, affecting as many as it can cover. Opponents can make opportunity attacks against protiston, but if they do so they are not entitled to a saving throw. Those who do not attempt attacks of opportunity must succeed on a DC XX Reflex save or be engulfed; on a success, they are pushed back or aside (opponent's choice) as protiston moves forward. Engulfed creatures take 6d6+13 bludgeoning damage plus 6d6 acid damage, and are considered to be grappled and trapped within protiston's body. The save DC is Strength-based.

*Engulfing Grab (Ex):* To use this ability, protiston must hit with its slam attack. It can then attempt to start a grapple as a free action without provoking an attack of opportunity. If it wins the grapple check, it establishes a hold and can attempt to engulf its opponent (see below) as a free action. Protiston can choose not to engulf an opponent if it wishes to, and can release a creature it has already engulfed (as a free action) if it needs to make room to engulf a new opponent. Protiston has a +4 racial bonus on grapple checks (already figured into the Base Attack/Grapple entry above).

*Swarmlike (Ex):* Protiston, like all slime molds, is not  truly a single creature but is a cooperative of myriads of amoeba-like  creatures. As such, it has some of the traits of a swarm. Unlike other creatures whose space occupies more than one square,  protiston is shapeable. It  can occupy any contiguous squares, and it  can squeeze through any  space large enough to contain Tiny creatures. It can  occupy the same space as  a creature of any size, since it crawls all  over its prey.


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## freyar (Feb 14, 2012)

I like it except for "It can make a slam attack and an engulf attack in the same round as a full round action."  Why should its engulf be more powerful than a gelatinous cube's (for example)?


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## Cleon (Feb 15, 2012)

freyar said:


> I like it except for "It can make a slam attack and an engulf attack in the same round as a full round action."  Why should its engulf be more powerful than a gelatinous cube's (for example)?




Because it's PROTISTON THE MIGHTY!

If it can control its body when split into multiple sections, it ought to be able to coordinate a pseudopod blow while flowing over its enemies.


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## Shade (Feb 16, 2012)

Yeah, I can see an exception for something of this size and power.


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## Cleon (Feb 17, 2012)

Shade said:


> Yeah, I can see an exception for something of this size and power.




Updating *Working Draft*.


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## Cleon (Feb 17, 2012)

Just noticed a typo in the *Giant Slime Mold Working Draft* - the slug form's Improved Grab has "an slime mold slug" rather than "a slime mold slug".

It's fixed now!


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## freyar (Feb 22, 2012)

Since it has no swarm attack now, are we dropping the distraction?

Ready to work out the spells?


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## Cleon (Feb 22, 2012)

freyar said:


> Since it has no swarm attack now, are we dropping the distraction?




I'd rather keep it and tweak the wording so it affects engulfed opponents.



freyar said:


> Ready to work out the spells?




Once we agree on the distraction...


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## freyar (Feb 27, 2012)

Hmm, you can guess I'd rather drop the distraction.  Let's call upon Shade for this one.


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## Cleon (Feb 27, 2012)

freyar said:


> Hmm, you can guess I'd rather drop the distraction.  Let's call upon Shade for this one.




Hmm, well I suppose we could wait for Shade or...

Hey! Look over there!! An aardvark!!!

*Distraction (Ex):* Any living creature that begins its turn engulfed by Protiston must succeed on a DC 61 Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round. The save DC is Constitution-based.


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## Shade (Mar 1, 2012)

freyar said:


> Hmm, you can guess I'd rather drop the distraction.  Let's call upon Shade for this one.




I'd like to drop it.


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## Cleon (Mar 2, 2012)

Shade said:


> I'd like to drop it.




Dang it, my Aardvark of Distraction only seems to have affected freyar.


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## freyar (Mar 5, 2012)

Cleon said:


> Dang it, my Aardvark of Distraction only seems to have affected freyar.



Never match wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line....

On to the spells now?


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## Cleon (Mar 6, 2012)

freyar said:


> Never match wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line....




I'm too busy being involved in a land war in central Asia. 



freyar said:


> On to the spells now?




Sure.


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## freyar (Mar 7, 2012)

> Protiston is highly intelligent and has gained the powers of a 12th-level magic-user, being able to cast spells like push, shield, continual darkness/light, ray of enfeeblement, stinking cloud (above water), hold person, protection from normal missiles, slow, hallucinatory terrain, plant growth, cloudkill (above water), hold monster, telekinesis, transmute rock to mud, and control weather. Other spells may be possible, but no spell will be used that involves fire or that considers other beings to be intelligent (such as charm spells).




There's more about how the casting power "varies," but nothing specific.  What do you think, caster level varying in that table in the working draft?


----------



## Cleon (Mar 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> There's more about how the casting power "varies," but nothing specific.  What do you think, caster level varying in that table in the working draft?




Well, I don't want to have to recalculate the spell selection for different-sized divisions, but I could see adding a DC or caster level penalty to the Self-Division Table.


----------



## Shade (Mar 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> Never match wits with a Sicilian when death is on the line....




To the death?
No.  To the pain.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 8, 2012)

Shade said:


> To the death?
> No.  To the pain.




Who you callin' a Humperdinck!


----------



## Shade (Mar 9, 2012)

Now that we've dealt with the ROUS's, I'll agree with...



Cleon said:


> Well, I don't want to have to recalculate the spell selection for different-sized divisions, but I could see adding a DC or caster level penalty to the Self-Division Table.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 9, 2012)

Shade said:


> Now that we've dealt with the ROUS's, I'll agree with...




So, a -1 to spell DC (and CL?) for every stage smaller than its "full size"?

*Number
 of 5 ft. . . . . . . . Grapple **. .**. Damage**. . . . Mental . . Spell
**Squares .. Size . . AC** . Mod **. . **. **(Engulf DC).** . Penalty***. Penalty***
4-8 . . . Large . .. 4 . +72 .  2d6+5 & 2d6 acid (43) . -15 . . -4
9-15 . . . Huge . .. 3 . +76 . 3d6+7 & 3d6 acid (45) . -10 . . -3
16-35 . Gargantuan . 1 . +80 . 4d6+9 & 4d6 acid (47) .. -5 . . -2
36-49 .. Colossal . -3 . +84 . 5d6+11 & 5d6 acid (49) . -2 . . -1
50+ . .. Colossal+. -3 . +86 . 6d6+13 & 6d6 acid (51) . +0 . . +0

*Apply this penalty to any Int-, Wis- or Cha-based skill check taken by the piece of protiston.
**Apply this penalty to the DC and caster level of any spell cast by the piece of protiston.


----------



## freyar (Mar 9, 2012)

That'll work for me.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> That'll work for me.




 Updating *Working Draft*.


----------



## freyar (Mar 13, 2012)

Sorcerer casting then.  Did we decide on an overall CL?


----------



## Cleon (Mar 14, 2012)

freyar said:


> Sorcerer casting then.  Did we decide on an overall CL?




No.

The original was CL 12, but that seems too feeble.

Casts as an 18th level sorcerer?


----------



## freyar (Mar 16, 2012)

That's fine for me, but we're going to have to boost the Cha a bit.  Say to 19?


----------



## Shade (Mar 16, 2012)

freyar said:


> That's fine for me, but we're going to have to boost the Cha a bit.  Say to 19?




Yes, please.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 16, 2012)

freyar said:


> That's fine for me, but we're going to have to boost the Cha a bit.  Say to 19?




How about Charisma 21?


----------



## freyar (Mar 19, 2012)

I have no problem whatsoever with Cha 21.  Go for it!

Spells per day are then 6/8/7/7/7/7/6/6/5/3.  Spells known are
0th - 9
1st - 5
2nd - 5
3rd - 4
4th - 4
5th - 4
6th - 3
7th - 3
8th - 2
9th - 1


----------



## Cleon (Mar 20, 2012)

freyar said:


> I have no problem whatsoever with Cha 21.  Go for it!




I suppose we should start at the top and work out way down.

Although, before we do that we might as well add in the spells mentioned in the article:
Protiston is highly intelligent and has gained the powers of a 12th-level magic-user, being able to cast spells like _push_, _shield_, _continual darkness/light_, _ray of enfeeblement_, _stinking cloud_ (above water), _hold person_, _protection from normal missiles_, _slow_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _plant growth_, _cloudkill_ (above water), _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, and _control weather_. Other spells may be possible, but no spell will be used that involves fire or that considers other beings to be intelligent (such as _charm_ spells).​ 0th - 9
1st - _shield_, 5
2nd - _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _ray of enfeeblement_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _hallucinatory terrain_, 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _forceful hand_ [instead of _push_], 3
7th - _control weather_, 3
8th - _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - 1     

I had to remove _hold person_ (since the 3rd level spells were filled up and _hold monster_ made more sense) and _plant growth_ (since it isn't available to sorcerers). I though _polymorph any object_ would be a good substitute for the latter.


----------



## GrayLinnorm (Mar 20, 2012)

Isn't ray of enfeeblement 1st level in 3e?

How about shapechange for its 9th level spell, horrid wilting for its other 8th level spell, insanity, contagion, and extract water elemental (from _Spell Compendium_)?


----------



## Cleon (Mar 20, 2012)

GrayLinnorm said:


> Isn't ray of enfeeblement 1st level in 3e?
> 
> How about shapechange for its 9th level spell, horrid wilting for its other 8th level spell, insanity, contagion, and extract water elemental (from _Spell Compendium_)?




Dang it, I thought it was 2nd level and *still* put it in the wrong slot!

Still, that means I can return the excised _hold person_.

0th - 9
1st - _shield_, 5
2nd - _ray of enfeeblement_, _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _hallucinatory terrain_, 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _forceful hand_ [instead of _push_], 3
7th - _control weather_, 3
8th - _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - 1     

So, we've got one 9th, one 8th, two 7th, two 6th, three 4th, three 2nd and four 1st-level spells to come up with.

Any preferences?


----------



## freyar (Mar 23, 2012)

We don't really use anything from Spell Compendium, but GrayLinnorm's other suggestions sound good.  That is: shapechange, horrid wilting, insanity, & contagion.  Ray of enfeeblement still hasn't made it all the way to 1st level.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 24, 2012)

freyar said:


> We don't really use anything from Spell Compendium, but GrayLinnorm's other suggestions sound good.  That is: shapechange, horrid wilting, insanity, & contagion.




I'd rather leave out _shapechange_ since it'd make Protiston even more of a sod to use in game.

Protiston does not use any spell "that considers other beings to be intelligent" so I'd cut _insanity_ as well. Surely a creature normally requires some intelligence to be considered sane or insane. It basically means most Mind-Affecting spells are out.

I'm OK with _horrid wilting_ and _contagion_, though.



freyar said:


> Ray of enfeeblement still hasn't made it all the way to 1st level.




It's literally going one (spell level) step at a time. 

So, _energy drain_ or _wail of the banshee_ for the 9th level spell?

For 7th level, _symbol of stunning_ and _grasping hand_ are tempting. If we give them the latter we should swap the 6th level list's _forceful hand_ for something else. Like _disintegrate_, _antimagic field_ or _acid fog._.. Or just give it all three...

Updated list...

0th - 9
1st - _ray of enfeeblement_, _shield_, 5
2nd - _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _contagion_, _hallucinatory terrain_, 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _forceful hand_ [instead of _push_], 3
7th - _control weather_, 3
8th - _horrid wilting_, _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - 1


----------



## freyar (Mar 26, 2012)

Good point on those.

How about wail of the banshee?  There's something appealing about a blob of slime mold suddenly screeching like crazy. 

I like your suggestions for 6th and 7th level.  That leaves us one more for each of those two levels.  How about freezing sphere, as we don't use that often?  Perhaps finger of death at 7th level?


----------



## Cleon (Mar 27, 2012)

freyar said:


> Good point on those.
> 
> How about wail of the banshee?  There's something appealing about a blob of slime mold suddenly screeching like crazy.
> 
> I like your suggestions for 6th and 7th level.  That leaves us one more for each of those two levels.  How about freezing sphere, as we don't use that often?  Perhaps finger of death at 7th level?




Hmm, I'd wondered about _wail of the banshee_ and _finger of death_ but it seemed a little redundant in a "a death spell plus another death spell" kind of way.

Also, if we use the previous suggestions we aren't left with 1 spell for the 6th & 7th levels, since it would give us.

6th - _acid fog_, _antimagic field_,  _disintegrate_ 3
 7th - _control weather_, _grasping hand_ [instead of _push_], _symbol of stunning_ 3

I'd be fine giving it _freezing sphere_ instead of _acid fog_ - since _solid fog_ would make a decent substitute for it. Keeping _symbol of stunning_ seems a better choice than _finger of death_. The former's too slow to case during a fight, but Protiston (and its Ooze minions) are all immune to stunning, so having lots of stun symbols in its lair should give it a great tactical advantage. Hmm, maybe _too_ great, plus the stunned folks will lose out on the fun of screaming in terror as they're eaten alive. Oh well, let's change it to the death finger.

0th - 9
1st - _ray of enfeeblement_, _shield_, 5
2nd - _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _contagion_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _solid fog_ 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _freezing sphere_, _antimagic field_,  _disintegrate_ 3
7th - _control weather_, _finger of death_, _grasping hand_ [instead of _push_] 3
8th - _horrid wilting_, _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - _wail of the banshee_ 1 	

Okay, so we need one 4th level spell (_polymorph_? scrying? _bestow curse_?), four 2nd level spells (_eagle's splendor_? _invisibility_? _resist energy_? _web_?), and three 1st level spells (_expeditious retrea__t_ or _jump_? _mage armor_ or _shield_? two of one and one of the other?).


----------



## freyar (Mar 30, 2012)

I must have miscounted there somehow.  Or read the numbers as those remaining.

I think I like polymorph best of your 4th level suggestions, but that duplicates the 8th level selection a bit.  Wall of Ice might work at 4th level instead.  I actually don't like illusions (hallucinatory terrain, for ex) as much for this, because they sort of imply some kind of mind in the victim, but I guess a glamer works on animals, so it's ok if you want to keep it.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 31, 2012)

freyar said:


> I must have miscounted there somehow.  Or read the numbers as those remaining.
> 
> I think I like polymorph best of your 4th level suggestions, but that duplicates the 8th level selection a bit.  Wall of Ice might work at 4th level instead.  I actually don't like illusions (hallucinatory terrain, for ex) as much for this, because they sort of imply some kind of mind in the victim, but I guess a glamer works on animals, so it's ok if you want to keep it.




The _hallucinatory terrain_ is only there because it's on the original spell list. I prefer _wall of ice_ over _polymorph_. With its slow movement speed there will be many occasions when it will want to stop its victims running away.

Hmm, a _black tentacles_ spell would also be useful for that, and it fits the beastie thematically.


----------



## Shade (Apr 5, 2012)

Cleon said:


> The _hallucinatory terrain_ is only there because it's on the original spell list. I prefer _wall of ice_ over _polymorph_. With its slow movement speed there will be many occasions when it will want to stop its victims running away.
> 
> Hmm, a _black tentacles_ spell would also be useful for that, and it fits the beastie thematically.




Black tentacles sounds perfect!


----------



## Cleon (Apr 6, 2012)

Shade said:


> Black tentacles sounds perfect!




Righty-oh.

That leaves us with three 1st-level and four 2nd-level spells. Any preferences?

0th - 9
1st - _ray of enfeeblement_, _shield_, 5
2nd - _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _black tentacles_, _contagion_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _solid fog_, 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _freezing sphere_, _antimagic field_,  _disintegrate_ 3
7th - _control weather_, _finger of death_, _grasping hand_ [instead of _push_] 3
8th - _horrid wilting_, _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - _wail of the banshee_ 1


----------



## freyar (Apr 7, 2012)

So, 4 more at 2nd, 3 at 1st, 9 at 0th.  Tackling the 2nd level spells first, how about flaming sphere, web, and shatter?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> So, 4 more at 2nd, 3 at 1st, 9 at 0th.  Tackling the 2nd level spells first, how about flaming sphere, web, and shatter?




Erm, there's a itsy little problem with _flaming sphere_:



			
				Microscopic Monsters said:
			
		

> Other spells may be possible, but no spell will be used that involves fire.




The _web_ is fine, although it overlaps a bit with the _black tentacles_.

Don't much care for _shatter_. What would it regularly be shattering?

A _protection from arrows_ or _resist energy_ would appeal to me more.

There's always _eagle's splendor_ to boost its Cha and hence its spell DCs.

So, how about _eagle's splendor_, _resist energy_, _web_?


----------



## freyar (Apr 9, 2012)

Those are fine for me.  We do need a 4th.  How about acid arrow?


----------



## Shade (Apr 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> Those are fine for me.  We do need a 4th.  How about acid arrow?




Sounds good.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 11, 2012)

freyar said:


> Those are fine for me.  We do need a 4th.  How about acid arrow?




2d4 acid a round for 7 rounds would barely be a nuisance at the CR it's operating at. I suppose it might help discipline its Ooze minions, but acid resistance 10 will completely negate it.

Maybe a defensive spell like _blur_ or _mirror image_?

Hmm, or give it _levitate_. Something about a giant floating CE slime amuses me...


----------



## freyar (Apr 11, 2012)

Ahh, levitate is good.

At first level: expeditious retreat, color spray, grease?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 12, 2012)

freyar said:


> Ahh, levitate is good.
> 
> At first level: expeditious retreat, color spray, grease?




I don't like the _color spray_ since it's practically useless against a worthwhile opponent. How about _unseen servant_ (for general utility), _protection from law_ (to go with its rumoured origins from the _*Chaotic*_ Evil Demon Lord of Oozes), or _true strike_ ('cause it's a meleeist).

Hey, or it could gain _disguise self_ so it can look like other kinds of Oozes and confuse the enemy!

0th - 9
1st - _expeditious retreat_, XXX, _grease_, _ray of enfeeblement_, _shield_, 5
2nd - _eagle's splendor_, _levitate_, _resist energy_, _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], _web_, 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _black tentacles_, _contagion_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _solid fog_, 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _freezing sphere_, _antimagic field_,  _disintegrate_ 3
7th - _control weather_, _finger of death_, _grasping hand_ [instead of _push_] 3
8th - _horrid wilting_, _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - _wail of the banshee_ 1


----------



## Shade (Apr 12, 2012)

I prefer plant growth to polymorph any object.

For the 0-levels:  acid splash, detect magic, read magic, light...


----------



## Cleon (Apr 13, 2012)

Shade said:


> I prefer plant growth to polymorph any object.




I cut it out because 3E Sorcerers can't cast _plant growth_.

We could always give it a (Su) or (Sp) to magically embiggen oozes and plants. If I recall correctly Protiston can create Giant Microbes.



Shade said:


> For the 0-levels:  acid splash, detect magic, read magic, light...




resistance? dancing lights? mage hand?


----------



## Shade (Apr 13, 2012)

Cleon said:


> I cut it out because 3E Sorcerers can't cast _plant growth_.




That's a fairly good reason.  



Cleon said:


> We could always give it a (Su) or (Sp) to magically embiggen oozes and plants. If I recall correctly Protiston can create Giant Microbes.




That'll work.



Cleon said:


> resistance? dancing lights? mage hand?




Sure.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 14, 2012)

Shade said:


> That's a fairly good reason.
> 
> That'll work.
> 
> Sure.




Leaving the Plant/Ooze Embiggening on the back burner for the time being, we've not got:

0th - _ acid splash_, _dancing lights_, _detect magic_, _light_, _mage hand_, _read magic_, _resistance_, 9
1st - _expeditious retreat_, XXX, _grease_, _ray of enfeeblement_, _shield_, 5
2nd - _eagle's splendor_, _levitate_, _resist energy_, _protection from arrows_ [instead of _protection from normal missiles_], _web_, 5
3rd - _blacklight_ [instead of _continual darkness/light_], _hold person_, _slow_, _stinking cloud_, 4
4th - _black tentacles_, _contagion_, _hallucinatory terrain_, _solid fog_, 4
5th - _cloudkill_, _hold monster_, _telekinesis_, _transmute rock to mud_, 4
6th - _freezing sphere_, _antimagic field_,  _disintegrate_ 3
7th - _control weather_, _finger of death_, _grasping hand_ [instead of _push_] 3
8th - _horrid wilting_, _polymorph any object_ [instead of _plant growth_], 2
9th - _wail of the banshee_ 1 	

So we're short two cantrips and one 1st-level spell.

I suggested _unseen servant_, _protection from law_, _true strike_ or _disguise self_.

Of those, I currently favour _protection from law_.

For the cantrips, _open/close_ and _ghost sound_?


----------



## Shade (Apr 17, 2012)

I agree with your suggestions.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 17, 2012)

Shade said:


> I agree with your suggestions.




Good! Looks like I can finally get around to updating the *Working Draft*.


----------



## freyar (Apr 19, 2012)

Looking good.  I do agree about an Su or unique Sp ability to enlarge microscopic creatures.  That's where this whole thread came from, right?


----------



## Shade (Apr 19, 2012)

freyar said:


> Looking good.  I do agree about an Su or unique Sp ability to enlarge microscopic creatures.  That's where this whole thread came from, right?




Indeed!

The question is how to tag something as "microscopic monster"...do we simply list them all out, or add some sort of common SQ (like "dire") by which to identify them, or something else?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 20, 2012)

Shade said:


> Indeed!
> 
> The question is how to tag something as "microscopic monster"...do we simply list them all out, or add some sort of common SQ (like "dire") by which to identify them, or something else?




How about an "Enormify Microbes" that can enlarge any Fine-sized Ooze, and a "Control Microbe" affecting Fine-sized Oozes and Oozes that have been "Enormified"?


----------



## Shade (Apr 20, 2012)

Cleon said:


> How about an "Enormify Microbes" that can enlarge any Fine-sized Ooze, and a "Control Microbe" affecting Fine-sized Oozes and Oozes that have been "Enormified"?




I suppose that could work, but you aren't going to find many Fine-sized oozes with actual combat statistics.  In that case, it might as well be represented by "summon ooze" or "create ooze", and just go straight with the giant-size versions.   I suppose we could still call it "Enormify Microbes", and just assume the Fine-sized organisms are always present nearby for "enormification".

I'm tempted to allow him to control any mindless ooze with his "control microbe" power.   He is nearly epic, after all.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 22, 2012)

Shade said:


> I suppose that could work, but you aren't going to find many Fine-sized oozes with actual combat statistics.  In that case, it might as well be represented by "summon ooze" or "create ooze", and just go straight with the giant-size versions.   I suppose we could still call it "Enormify Microbes", and just assume the Fine-sized organisms are always present nearby for "enormification".




Yeah, that seems a lot easier. Microbes are all around us, so it's not going to be short of material. Can protiston create whatever microbes it likes, or does it randomly transform bacteria and single-celled fungi into giant monsters?

How many giant-sized microbes can it create? Is it based on HD or CR?

Hmm, we could do something like this:

*Create Macrobes (Su):* Once per day, protiston can permanently transform ordinary microbes into giant microorganisms. Protiston can create up to 36 HD of macrobes, of any size or type it chooses. For example, it might create a 14 HD Huge slime mold slug, a giant gonyaulax swarm (13 HD), and three 3 HD giant elphidium.



Shade said:


> I'm tempted to allow him to control any mindless ooze with his "control microbe" power.   He is nearly epic, after all.




That suits me.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 22, 2012)

Hey, I just realized Freyar never said whether he preferred CR 1 or CR 2 for the *Globigerina*.

I was in favor of CR 1 and Shade wanted CR 2 but I think I was bringing him around to 1.

We also didn't put any background text in it.

I've updated the Globigerina *Working Draft* with some background text and a (questionable?) CR 1. Can we declare that to be finished?


----------



## freyar (Apr 23, 2012)

Create Macrobes looks like a go.

Control Ooze (Su): Protiston can telepathically command any mindless ooze within X ft.  This ability effectively programs the oozes as if they were mindless undead or constructs.
??

CR 1 is probably ok for globby.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 24, 2012)

freyar said:


> Create Macrobes looks like a go.
> 
> Control Ooze (Su): Protiston can telepathically command any mindless ooze within X ft.  This ability effectively programs the oozes as if they were mindless undead or constructs.
> ??




I'd have a limit to HD or CR, otherwise it'll be controlling Genius Loci and taking over the world!



freyar said:


> CR 1 is probably ok for globby.




Fine by me!


----------



## Shade (Apr 24, 2012)

Cleon said:


> I'd have a limit to HD or CR, otherwise it'll be controlling Genius Loci and taking over the world!




How about "with less HD than itself"?


----------



## Cleon (Apr 25, 2012)

Shade said:


> How about "with less HD than itself"?




Genius Loci have 70 HD.


----------



## Shade (Apr 26, 2012)

Cleon said:


> Genius Loci have 70 HD.




In that case, let's just cap it at say, 30 HD.


----------



## Cleon (Apr 28, 2012)

Shade said:


> In that case, let's just cap it at say, 30 HD.




I was thinking 36 HD, but 30 is fine too. Both are enough for Protiston to make Gargantuan Slime Molds.


----------



## Shade (May 1, 2012)

Cleon said:


> I was thinking 36 HD, but 30 is fine too. Both are enough for Protiston to make Gargantuan Slime Molds.




Either works for me.


----------



## Cleon (May 2, 2012)

Shade said:


> Either works for me.




So, shall we let Freyar decide?


----------



## Shade (May 3, 2012)

Cleon said:


> So, shall we let Freyar decide?




Yes, we shall let him bear this great burden.


----------



## freyar (May 4, 2012)

How about 38HD worth?  That's half of Protiston's HD.


----------



## Cleon (May 6, 2012)

freyar said:


> How about 38HD worth?  That's half of Protiston's HD.




I wondered about that, but just liked the nice round number of 36 better. In principle I have no objection to making it 38 HD.


----------



## Shade (May 8, 2012)

freyar accepted the burden, so 38 HD it is!


----------



## Cleon (May 9, 2012)

Shade said:


> freyar accepted the burden, so 38 HD it is!




Well, if he wants to carry those 2 HD I'll let him.

Time to update the Working Draft?


----------



## freyar (May 10, 2012)

They're not that heavy.   Update away...


----------



## Shade (May 11, 2012)

Please do.


----------



## Cleon (May 12, 2012)

Shade said:


> Please do.




*There you go*.

We need a range for the Command Ooze ability.


----------



## freyar (May 15, 2012)

60 ft?  

You know, since each piece is at least Large, I'd drop Distraction.


----------



## Shade (May 15, 2012)

freyar said:


> 60 ft?




Since he/it is rather epic, maybe a bit more.   120 ft.?   300 ft.?  



freyar said:


> You know, since each piece is at least Large, I'd drop Distraction.




Agreed.


----------



## Cleon (May 15, 2012)

Shade said:


> Since he/it is rather epic, maybe a bit more.   120 ft.?   300 ft.?




A _dominate monster_ spell with a caster level equal to Protiston's Hit Dice would have a range of 405 ft., so how about a nice round 400 ft.?


----------



## Shade (May 16, 2012)

Cleon said:


> A _dominate monster_ spell with a caster level equal to Protiston's Hit Dice would have a range of 405 ft., so how about a nice round 400 ft.?




I like it.


----------



## Cleon (May 16, 2012)

Shade said:


> I like it.




Updating *Working Draft*.


----------



## freyar (May 18, 2012)

Is it now ready for feats and skills, or are there still special abilities to haggle over?


----------



## Cleon (May 18, 2012)

freyar said:


> Is it now ready for feats and skills, or are there still special abilities to haggle over?




I think we're done with the Special Abilities, so might as well do the skills and feats.

It'll have, what, 26 feats.

That'll take some time to sort out!


----------



## Shade (May 22, 2012)

Cleon said:


> I think we're done with the Special Abilities, so might as well do the skills and feats.
> 
> It'll have, what, 26 feats.
> 
> That'll take some time to sort out!




Let's see what we have to work with...

Probably a bunch of boosters for its slam attack.

Probably a bunch of metamagic feats.

The usual save boosters and general survivability feats?


----------



## Cleon (May 22, 2012)

Shade said:


> Let's see what we have to work with...
> 
> Probably a bunch of boosters for its slam attack.
> 
> ...




At the moment I'm not feeling much enthusiasm for diving into the feats, so why don't you suggest a selection so I can pick holes in it?


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## freyar (May 24, 2012)

Well, let's start with (all for the slam)

Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, Overwhelming Crit*, Devastating Crit*, Power Crit

*=Epic.  So that's 8 total, 2 epic.  

I'd also vote for Quicken Spell and Automatic Quicken, but I'm not too fussed otherwise about metamagic feats.


----------



## Cleon (May 25, 2012)

freyar said:


> Well, let's start with (all for the slam)
> 
> Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, Overwhelming Crit*, Devastating Crit*, Power Crit
> 
> ...




I'm not that keen on the Devastating Critical chain for Protiston.

We seem to use that for all out Epic Monsters, so I wouldn't mind using something else.

Also, Protiston's plenty nasty already. Do we really want to add a high DC save-or-die attack to it?


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## freyar (May 29, 2012)

The reason we use it is that there aren't many other good epic feats that monsters can actually qualify for.   Besides, Shade wanted some slam boosters.

Do you have any ideas?  There are Epic Fort, Ref, Will, and the various feats exchanging key abilities for saves, but there are only so many we can use without getting boring.


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## Shade (May 30, 2012)

Cleon said:


> I'm not that keen on the Devastating Critical chain for Protiston.
> 
> We seem to use that for all out Epic Monsters, so I wouldn't mind using something else.
> 
> Also, Protiston's plenty nasty already. Do we really want to add a high DC save-or-die attack to it?




Umm...yes?  



freyar said:


> The reason we use it is that there aren't many other good epic feats that monsters can actually qualify for.   Besides, Shade wanted some slam boosters.




Indeed.  Its got so many feats it's going to end up with a bunch that are gonna feel "tacked on" so might as well give it something it can use.



Cleon said:


> Do you have any ideas?  There are Epic Fort, Ref, Will, and the various feats exchanging key abilities for saves, but there are only so many we can use without getting boring.




Its niche is essentially slams n' spells.  So I fancy boosting the hell out of its slam attack, and giving a decent assortment of metamagic and spell booster feats.   At the very least, I like Maximize Spell, and I like the Automatic Quickens freyar suggested.   Widen and Enlarge wouldn't be bad, either.


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## Cleon (May 31, 2012)

Shade said:


> Umm...yes?
> 
> Indeed.  Its got so many feats it's going to end up with a bunch that are gonna feel "tacked on" so might as well give it something it can use.
> 
> Its niche is essentially slams n' spells.  So I fancy boosting the hell out of its slam attack, and giving a decent assortment of metamagic and spell booster feats.   At the very least, I like Maximize Spell, and I like the Automatic Quickens freyar suggested.   Widen and Enlarge wouldn't be bad, either.




How about Automatic Silent Spell and Automatic Still Spell?


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2012)

Automatic Silent might be useful, but I'm having a hard time thinking about when Protistron might need a Stilled spell.  You going to tie it up?


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## Cleon (Jun 5, 2012)

freyar said:


> Automatic Silent might be useful, but I'm having a hard time thinking about when Protistron might need a Stilled spell.  You going to tie it up?




I was thinking it would be useful if Protiston wishes to cast a spell without being noticed.


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## freyar (Jun 7, 2012)

You think someone's not going to notice a giant slime mold?


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## Cleon (Jun 7, 2012)

freyar said:


> You think someone's not going to notice a giant slime mold?




It could disguise itself as something else - like a rock - and if it has Auto Still and Auto Silent it can cast spells surreptitiously.


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## freyar (Jun 11, 2012)

If you both like, I guess I don't mind Auto Still since it has plenty of feats.  But the Disguise bit seems like a bit of a stretch.  Plus Protistron isn't supposed to recognize other creatures as being intelligent, so it wouldn't bother disguising itself or its spells, I'd think.


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## Cleon (Jun 11, 2012)

freyar said:


> If you both like, I guess I don't mind Auto Still since it has plenty of feats.  But the Disguise bit seems like a bit of a stretch.  Plus Protistron isn't supposed to recognize other creatures as being intelligent, so it wouldn't bother disguising itself or its spells, I'd think.




Protiston does not recognize other creatures as intelligent, but I believe it knows other beings can be aware of their surroundings. Protiston has _hallucinatory terrain_ on its original spell list, which only makes sense if it's trying to mislead the senses of other creatures.


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## freyar (Jun 11, 2012)

True, but, as noted above, hallucinatory terrain is useful against animal-intelligence creatures too.  Critters of that level of intelligence, as Protistron views everything else, don't know what spells are.


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## Cleon (Jun 11, 2012)

freyar said:


> True, but, as noted above, hallucinatory terrain is useful against animal-intelligence creatures too.  Critters of that level of intelligence, as Protistron views everything else, don't know what spells are.




So? An animal doesn't have to know it's a spell to react to a disturbance.

They still know that noise and motion are an indication something might be a nasty that wants to eat them.

Besides, in D&D-land smarter animals might have learned to avoid guys who chant and wave their arms, like some real-world wild animals avoid people with guns - and for similar reasons!


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## freyar (Jun 11, 2012)

Oy vey, where's Shade when you need him?



More seriously, sure, let's do Auto Still and Auto Silent at least tentatively.  But I don't think Disguise is the right place to put skill ranks unless we really run out of other ideas.


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## Cleon (Jun 12, 2012)

freyar said:


> Oy vey, where's Shade when you need him?
> 
> 
> 
> More seriously, sure, let's do Auto Still and Auto Silent at least tentatively.  But I don't think Disguise is the right place to put skill ranks unless we really run out of other ideas.




I was thinking Hide rather than Disguise.


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## freyar (Jun 13, 2012)

Yeah, Hide would be better.

Let's see.  So far we have


Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, Overwhelming Crit*, Devastating Crit*, Power Crit, Quicken Spell, Automatic Quicken Spell*, Silent Spell, Automatic Silent Spell*, Still Spell, Automatic Still Spell*, Epic Fort*, Epic Ref*, Epic Will*

That's so far 18 feats with 8 epic.  Seems like we need 8 more.  Could go with multiple uses of the Automatic metamagic spells, I guess, or some more normal metamagic.


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## Cleon (Jun 13, 2012)

freyar said:


> Yeah, Hide would be better.
> 
> Let's see.  So far we have
> 
> ...




What, like Permanent Emanation? That rather depends on it having an emanation spell that's of much use to it.

Also, if we're giving it one Automatic Quicken Spell we should consider giving it a couple more, so it can do all its spells Auto-Quick.

Hmm, I suppose we could give them the +2 regular feat versions of the save-boosters, but those aren't very interesting. Plus, they'd only really be of interest if it uses them as prereqs for some other feats.

Great Fortitude and Perfect Health, maybe?


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## freyar (Jun 14, 2012)

Well, I did mean something like Maximize Spell or whatever.

3xAuto Quicken seems reasonable.  I guess I could also do Great Fort and Perfect Health, but I don't think Permanent Emanation probably helps Protistron too much.

Any more ideas?


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## Cleon (Jun 15, 2012)

freyar said:


> Well, I did mean something like Maximize Spell or whatever.
> 
> 3xAuto Quicken seems reasonable.  I guess I could also do Great Fort and Perfect Health, but I don't think Permanent Emanation probably helps Protistron too much.




Maximize Spell is OK.



freyar said:


> Any more ideas?




How about some of the non-psionic feats from the Psionic SRD?

Reckless Offence? Chaotic Mind and its prereqs?


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## freyar (Jun 27, 2012)

I'll go with Reckless Offense, but I'm not sure I like Chaotic Mind.  Like we talked about above, it doesn't seem right for someone who doesn't recognize sentience in others.

Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, Overwhelming Crit*, Devastating Crit*, Power Crit, Quicken Spell, 3xAutomatic Quicken Spell*, Silent Spell, Automatic Silent Spell*, Still Spell, Automatic Still Spell*, Epic Fort*, Epic Ref*, Epic Will*, Maximize Spell, Great Fortitude, Perfect Health*, Reckless Offense.

That puts us at 23 feats.


----------



## Cleon (Jun 27, 2012)

freyar said:


> I'll go with Reckless Offense, but I'm not sure I like Chaotic Mind.  Like we talked about above, it doesn't seem right for someone who doesn't recognize sentience in others.




Why would it need to recognize sentience to prevent other creatures having an insight into its actions? Wouldn't other creatures find it harder to predict its behavior if its thoughts were so alien that it doesn't even realize they're intelligent?



freyar said:


> Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus, Improved Crit, Overwhelming Crit*, Devastating Crit*, Power Crit, Quicken Spell, 3xAutomatic Quicken Spell*, Silent Spell, Automatic Silent Spell*, Still Spell, Automatic Still Spell*, Epic Fort*, Epic Ref*, Epic Will*, Maximize Spell, Great Fortitude, Perfect Health*, Reckless Offense.
> 
> That puts us at 23 feats.




That's OK I think. It needs a few (slams) to go after some of the weapon feats.

We're only short by three feats. Any ideas?


----------



## freyar (Jun 28, 2012)

I can see your second justification much more than your first for Chaotic Mind.  We'll hold that in reserve.

The Ref save is still going to be relatively poor even with Epic Ref.  What about Lightning Reflexes also?  

Enlarge Spell and something generally useful, like Imp Init?


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## Cleon (Jun 28, 2012)

freyar said:


> I can see your second justification much more than your first for Chaotic Mind.  We'll hold that in reserve.
> 
> The Ref save is still going to be relatively poor even with Epic Ref.  What about Lightning Reflexes also?
> 
> Enlarge Spell and something generally useful, like Imp Init?




Those work OK for me.

Hmm, since its low initiative is a major combat problem, how about Superior Initiative as well?

Swap it for Reckless Offense or one of its other feats?


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## freyar (Jun 29, 2012)

I'd be fine with swapping out Epic Fort.  Its Fort save is going to be pretty good anyway.

Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus (slam), Improved Critical (slam), Overwhelming Critical (slam), Devastating Critical (slam), Power Critical (slam), Quicken Spell, 3xAutomatic Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Still Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Epic Ref, Epic Will, Maximize Spell, Great Fortitude, Perfect Health, Reckless Offense, Lightning Reflexes, Enlarge Spell, Improved Initiative, Superior Initiative.

Alphabetizing...
Automatic Quicken Spell (x3), Automatic Silent Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Cleave, Devastating Critical (slam), Enlarge Spell, Epic Reflexes, Epic Will, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Improved Critical (slam), Improved Initiative, Lightning Reflexes, Maximize Spell, Overwhelming Critical (slam), Perfect Health, Power Attack, Power Critical (slam), Quicken Spell, Reckless Offense, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Superior Initiative, Weapon Focus (slam).

I think that does it.


----------



## Cleon (Jun 30, 2012)

freyar said:


> I'd be fine with swapping out Epic Fort.  Its Fort save is going to be pretty good anyway.
> 
> Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave, Weapon Focus (slam), Improved Critical (slam), Overwhelming Critical (slam), Devastating Critical (slam), Power Critical (slam), Quicken Spell, 3xAutomatic Quicken Spell, Silent Spell, Automatic Silent Spell, Still Spell, Automatic Still Spell, Epic Ref, Epic Will, Maximize Spell, Great Fortitude, Perfect Health, Reckless Offense, Lightning Reflexes, Enlarge Spell, Improved Initiative, Superior Initiative.
> 
> ...




Looks good. I doubt it needs Power Critical, since a +61 attack is likely enough to confirm most hits, but we might as well leave it in.

I'll update the *Working Draft*.

Let's see.

Devastating Critical = 19-20; 13d6+26 plus 12d6 acid and DC 61 Fort save to avoid instant death on critical hit.

Save boosts of +6 bonus to Ref, +4 to Will and +2 to Fort.

+8 bonus to Initiative.

That's it for the changes to its stats, right?


----------



## Cleon (Jun 30, 2012)

So, now we have its 320 points of skills to figure out.

There's no point giving it any social skills, since it believes it's the only sapient creature in existence.

Concentration, Hide, Listen, Spot and Move Silently as the basics.

Maybe some Knowledge (arcane) and Knowledge (dungeoneering).

Presumably it doesn't believe other creatures can cast spells, since it's the Only Intelligent Being, suggesting it won't have much Spellcraft.


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## freyar (Jul 3, 2012)

We could swap out Power Crit if you like.  

I think that's it for the stat changes.

Maybe those 7 skills are enough.  We could do 50 ranks in each of the 5 "basics" and 35 each in the two Knowledges.  What do you think?


----------



## Cleon (Jul 3, 2012)

freyar said:


> We could swap out Power Crit if you like.




I'll happily swap it out if you can think of something better.

How about Improved Spell Capacity so it has can cast a single 10th level spell? A quickened _antimagic field_ or _freezing sphere_ might come in handy.

Come to think of it, with Cha 21 it qualifies for picking that Epic Feat twice, giving it an 11th level spell as well (maximized _horrid wilting__*!*_ quickened _finger of death*!*_).

So, how about swapping Reckless Offence and Power Critical for two Improved Spell Capacity feats? 

Or, if you don't want to fuss about 10th+ level spells, give it two Multispell feats so it* can cast three quickened spells in a round*.

As in, it can cast four 1st-9th level spells every round, since it has triple Automatic Quicken Spell feats. That'll be fun for its opponents...

Or give it Improved Spell Capacity and Multispell, so it has a 10th level spell slot and can cast a mere two quickened spells in a round.



freyar said:


> I think that's it for the stat changes.
> 
> Maybe those 7 skills are enough.  We could do 50 ranks in each of the 5  "basics" and 35 each in the two Knowledges.  What do you think?




Since my last post I realized it has to have Spellcraft, since 30 ranks in that skill is a prerequisite for Automatic Quicken Spell.


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## freyar (Jul 6, 2012)

I like Improved Spell Capacity and Multispell --- we don't use those often enough.

How about 40 ranks each in Concentration, Hide, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Listen, Spellcraft, Spot, and Move Silently?


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## Cleon (Jul 6, 2012)

freyar said:


> I like Improved Spell Capacity and Multispell --- we don't use those often enough.




Overall, Multispell is much more effective than Improved Spell Capacity, especially as sorcerers must use full-round actions to cast Metamagic standard action spells.

With twin Multispells it can cast *four 9th level spells* per round, with Multispell + Improved Spell Capacity it can cast *two 9th level* and *one 10th level* spell in a single round, and *three 9th level spells* in rounds it doesn't want to use its single 10th level spell.

The former seems a lot better to me.



freyar said:


> How about 40 ranks each in Concentration, Hide, Knowledge (arcana), Knowledge (dungeoneering), Listen, Spellcraft, Spot, and Move Silently?




Looks pretty good...
4+4+3+6 = 17

That works out to Climb +21, Concentration +53, Hide +19, Knowledge (arcana) +44,  Knowledge (dungeoneering) +44, Listen +44, Move Silently +35, Spellcraft  +46, Spot +44, Survival +5 (+7 underground), Swim +21

The Hide is low for the target CR, especially compared to the Move Silently. I'll cut 2 points each off the 2 Knowledges, Listen, Spellcraft and Spot and 1 point off Concentration, then put those ranks in Hide to make it +30:

*Skills:* Climb +21, Concentration +52, Hide +30, Knowledge (arcana) +42,  Knowledge (dungeoneering) +42, Listen +42, Move Silently +35, Spellcraft  +44, Spot +42, Survival +5 (+7 underground), Swim +21

I'll update the *Working Draft* with the above.


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## freyar (Jul 6, 2012)

Looks good.  We're getting there!

I think we can drop the red ?s except on CR.  Maybe put that in the 27-29 range?  It's got a lot of casting, which is somewhat like the uvuudaum's SLAs, but the hp and melee abilities are probably better.  On the other hand, protiston's AC is lousy.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 7, 2012)

freyar said:


> Looks good.  We're getting there!
> 
> I think we can drop the red ?s except on CR.  Maybe put that in the 27-29 range?  It's got a lot of casting, which is somewhat like the uvuudaum's SLAs, but the hp and melee abilities are probably better.  On the other hand, protiston's AC is lousy.




Judging its Challenge Rating is tricky. I don't fancy running it through a lot of epic level combats to see what parties can defeat it by spending 25% of their resources! 

As for its magical powers, the CR 27 Gibbering Orb can shoot two dozen DC 25 "save or die" eye rays as a standard action, with up to five on a single target, and it can steal its victims' spells and SLAs and use them 2/round. That seems nastier than the "quadruple spell casting" of Protiston.

Proty's got a lot better hit points and saves than the Orb though, but its feeble AC and non-existent spell resistance lets it down.

Oh heck, shall we err on the side of caution and use Challenge Rating 27?


----------



## freyar (Jul 8, 2012)

Sure, CR 27 is probably reasonable.  Hard to figure these things.

I was thinking of ideas for tactics, but I have to run.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> Sure, CR 27 is probably reasonable.  Hard to figure these things.
> 
> I was thinking of ideas for tactics, but I have to run.




Run free!

I'll update *Protiston's Working Draft* while you're away.


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## freyar (Jul 16, 2012)

Protiston does not usually interact with intruders in its domain, typically sending its macrobe servitors to investigate any disturbance.  If they do not suffice, however, a clump of Protiston will soften opponents with spells, closing to melee and using overwhelming physical force once its enemies are weak.


That's not terribly good, but there's the germ of an idea there.


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## Cleon (Jul 17, 2012)

freyar said:


> Protiston does not usually interact with intruders in its domain, typically sending its macrobe servitors to investigate any disturbance.  If they do not suffice, however, a clump of Protiston will soften opponents with spells, closing to melee and using overwhelming physical force once its enemies are weak.
> 
> That's not terribly good, but there's the germ of an idea there.




It looks a good start to me. I'd mention the devastating effectiveness of the Multispell & AutoQuicken combo though.

How's this?

Protiston does not usually interact with intruders in its domain,  typically sending its macrobe servitors to investigate any disturbance.   If they do not suffice, however, Protiston will attack with a devastating combination of physical force and spells. Protiston's triple Automatic Quicken Spell feats allow it to cast any of its spells as quickened spells, while its twin Multispell feats mean it can cast up to 4 quickened spells in a round while simultaneously making a full attack.

Protiston can use its self-division ability to to surround or outflank opponents. It always sequesters at least 1 small portion of its body in a safe place, so it can regrow if the rest of its body is destroyed.


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## freyar (Jul 17, 2012)

Excellent.

Here's some descriptive text: A giant blob of slime.

That's only a little facetious.


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## Cleon (Jul 18, 2012)

freyar said:


> Excellent.




Updating *Protiston's Working Draft*.



freyar said:


> Here's some descriptive text: A giant blob of slime.
> 
> That's only a little facetious.




Ridiculous! It could be using its self-division to become _*several*_ giant blobs of slime!


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## freyar (Jul 18, 2012)

But you probably only encounter one blob at once. 

How about "A giant blob or two of slime"?


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## Cleon (Jul 18, 2012)

freyar said:


> But you probably only encounter one blob at once.
> 
> How about "A giant blob or two of slime"?




Or "A roiling sea of vile slime, it flows apart and blends together so chaotically it's impossible to tell if it's one creature or a hundred"?


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## freyar (Jul 19, 2012)

That looks pretty good!

OK, ideas for background.  It seems to have evolved naturally, developing emergent intelligence and magical ability.  It can't understand sentience in other creatures.  And it seems to be very fond of macrobes.  Anything else we should add?


----------



## Cleon (Jul 20, 2012)

freyar said:


> That looks pretty good!




 Updating *Protiston's Working Draft*.



freyar said:


> OK, ideas for background.  It seems to have evolved naturally, developing emergent intelligence and magical ability.  It can't understand sentience in other creatures.  And it seems to be very fond of macrobes.  Anything else we should add?




Yes. It definitely needs the "innate disregard for all other forms of life" and "it wishes to “eat” the entire world or shape it to benefit itself" bits.

We should also mention the rumours of an association with the Demon Lord Juiblex. As written it would eat the CR20 _Book of Vile Darkness_ Juiblex for breakfast, so maybe the Faceless Lord did have a hand in Protiston's formation or acquiring of magical power, but did not expect it to grow so powerful?

Of course, the current conversion is significantly more powerful than the original, and the BoVD Juiblex is considered a "minimum power" version by some 3E aficionados, so this Protiston could have been helped by a "Demigod" level (CR 30+?) Juiblex.

Anyhow, let's review:


> Protiston (as it was named by the mage who discovered it) began as a simple collection of single-celled creatures in a large body of water, such as a sea or an ocean. At some some point in the distant past, Protiston became so large and complex that it acquired intelligence, and slowly thereafter gained magical skills. Being of such an alien intelligence, Protiston has no understanding at all of “normal” human thought, and regards everything around it as either a food source or “hostile environment” to be overcome and destroyed. No one knows for sure, but the chaotic evil alignment detected from Protiston may stem from either Protiston’s innate disregard for all other forms of life, or from some form of association with the demon prince Juiblex (which might explain how Protiston gained spellcasting abilities). Little else is known of this being’s origins or intent, save that it wishes to “eat” the entire world or shape it to benefit itself. Few beings are even aware that this creature exists — and few who have found it have lived to tell about it later.



Hmm, we seem to have everything covered.

I'd rather make its origins be a matter of rumour and speculation rather than a statement of fact like the author does above. The stuff about an ancient colony of ocean bacteria slowly developing intelligence and magic could be down to "the discovering mage talking out of his ear", or a matter of "deep study by the most erudite sages".


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## freyar (Jul 20, 2012)

I think the BoVD demon lords are often considered as aspects or low-power avatars; the demon lords in the Savage Tide AP were much more powerful than CR 20, certainly.

But rumors of association with Juiblex is a good idea.

The wizard that discovered Prostiston was surprised to find that the island-sized slime mold was in fact an intelligent, spellcasting entity.  Before Prostiton devoured him, his retainers --- fleeing rapidly --- heard him speculate that Protiston evolved slowly from ancient colonies of mold deep in the oceans, gradually developing intelligence and spellcasting ability.  Other sages have speculated that Juiblex, the demon lord, had a hand (or pseudopod) in elevating Protiston to its current power.  

But a few things are clear about Protiston: From all observations, it is completely incapable of recognizing sentience in other beings despite its own high intelligence.  Protiston has no regard for other life, save its servitor macrobes, and views the entire world as its own to reshape or devour.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 20, 2012)

freyar said:


> The wizard that discovered Prostiston was surprised to find that the island-sized slime mold was in fact an intelligent, spellcasting entity.  Before Prostiton devoured him, his retainers --- fleeing rapidly --- heard him speculate that Protiston evolved slowly from ancient colonies of mold deep in the oceans, gradually developing intelligence and spellcasting ability.  Other sages have speculated that Juiblex, the demon lord, had a hand (or pseudopod) in elevating Protiston to its current power.
> 
> But a few things are clear about Protiston: From all observations, it is completely incapable of recognizing sentience in other beings despite its own high intelligence.  Protiston has no regard for other life, save its servitor macrobes, and views the entire world as its own to reshape or devour.




Protiston's not really island sized, there's nothing about it eating its discoverer, and I doubt very much it has any regard for its servitor microbes - they're just part of the world it has reshaped to serve it.

Hmm...

Protiston is a vast slime mold of enormous age which has developed  terrible spellcasting powers and a formidable, albeit highly alien,  intelligence. The mage who discovered and named Protiston claims that it slowly  evolved from a simple colony of mold floating in some ancient  sea.  Other sages speculate that the demon Juiblex, the Faceless Lord, had a  hand (or pseudopod) in Protistion's elevation.

Protiston is unable to comprehend even the possibility  that anything other than itself might possess sentience. Everything it  encounters is either food to be devoured, or a hostile environmental  phenomena to be destroyed or reshaped to Protiston's benefit. Protiston wishes to reshape the entire world to benefit itself. It has  the ability to transform ordinary microbial life into giant "macrobes" under its control. It has no more regard for the lives of these macrobes than it does for the rest of existence — they are nothing more than tools to feed its hunger and guard its treasure.

Protiston can move on land but lives in water. It may be found in the  sea or freshwater lakes, most often lairing in coral atolls or caverns  along the shoreline. Whatever place Protiston chooses as its home is  only temporary, the sapient slime mold always moves on sooner or later.  Sometimes this is because Protiston's devoured everything in its  habitat, or it may have finished "reshaping" an area to its tastes and moved on to other project, or perhaps the chaotic creature decides to relocate on a whim. In adverse conditions, Protiston can turn part or all of its body into a sporocarp and wait for better times. Even the smallest piece of Protiston is part of the whole, the slime mold can regrow to full power even all of its body is destroyed apart from a single amoeboid cell.

Protiston can reshape the slime of its body in any shape it desires, it can even split itself into many parts and rejoin together again. Most commonly, it takes the form of a small island of slime up to 80 feet across and 20 or 30 feet thick. Protiston typically weighs between 1200 and 2000 tons.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 21, 2012)

Come to think of it, we haven't worked out Protiston's sporocarp form.

How about we just add the following:

*Sporocarp (Ex):* Protiston can form its body into sporocarps - objects that resemble mushrooms about 10 feet tall. It can use its Self-Division ability to form only part of its body into sporocarps; each sporocarp is four 5 ft. squares of Protiston's body. Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance 5. Such a sporocarp poses no threat, since its spores are not ready to reproduce.

A mature sporocarp is dried-out and has vulnerability to fire. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. It is AC 1, hardness 5, and takes 120 hit points of damage to destroy, but any weapon damage which does not destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores scatter in a cloud covering a 30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest, doing 2d4 points of acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a _remove disease_ spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, Protiston can regrow its entire body from even a single spore.


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2012)

Oh, and I felt so proud of that little embellishment!  

The background looks good.

Well, since it's unique, I didn't think Protiston really took on sporocarp form.  But I don't really object to adding that, either.


----------



## Cleon (Jul 21, 2012)

freyar said:


> Oh, and I felt so proud of that little embellishment!
> 
> The background looks good.
> 
> Well, since it's unique, I didn't think Protiston really took on sporocarp form.  But I don't really object to adding that, either.




Hold on, I just noticed something:

The power of Protiston’s magic may vary from place to place, depending on the number of colonies in the area, *but would be powerful in the sporocarp stage*.

So, maybe we should chance it so ALL of protiston goes into sporocarps when it encysts, and it gets some kind of power boost to spellcasting (increase to DC and spell penetration? Free metamagic?).

If we do that, we should (a) note it can cast spells in sporocarp form, but cannot move or use its normal physical attacks, and (b) give it a nastier spores attack.

How did I miss that it can fight when it's a dried-out mushroom!

It'll probably be easier to give the Sporocarp form its own subentry, like we did with the regular Slime Mold.


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## freyar (Jul 23, 2012)

Hmmm, that's a good point.  But I don't think the casting should be boosted beyond what it has as a C+ superslug.  We should definitely boost the spores.


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## Cleon (Jul 24, 2012)

freyar said:


> Hmmm, that's a good point.  But I don't think the casting should be boosted beyond what it has as a C+ superslug.  We should definitely boost the spores.




So are we giving it an "all Sporocarp" option, or allowing it to split up?

I think I'd rather modify the current "Sporodraft" so it can form any division of its body into a sporocarp, rather than have it do it in 4-square lumps, and specify that it can spellcast while in sporocarp form.

We should also give a sporocarp the same hit points as a "slug" the same size.

Apart from that, I suppose we give it a spores attack and some improved defenses (fire resistance in "soggy form", DR in "dried form"?) to compensate for its immobility and lack of physical attacks.


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## Cleon (Jul 24, 2012)

freyar said:


> The background looks good.




Better update *Protiston's Working Draft* with that background before I forget.

Forget again, that is. 

I've had some thoughts about a "revised sporocarp", but they'll have to wait for later.


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## freyar (Jul 25, 2012)

Something like this?  Rather than add DR, though, I'd just increase the hardness and probably hp on the mature one.  We should also boost the spore acid damage or make it nastier in some way.

Sporocarp (Ex): Protiston can form its body into sporocarps - objects that resemble mushrooms about 10 feet tall. It can use its Self-Division ability to form any part of its body into a sporocarps.  A sporocarp has the same spellcasting ability as an equivalently sized slug.

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance 5. Such a sporocarp does not have mature spores or a spore attack.

A mature sporocarp is dried-out and has vulnerability to fire. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. It is AC 1, hardness XX, and takes XXX hit points of damage to destroy, but any weapon damage which does not destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores scatter in a cloud covering a 30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest, doing XdX points of acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, Protiston can regrow its entire body from even a single spore.


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## Cleon (Jul 25, 2012)

freyar said:


> Something like this?  Rather than add DR, though, I'd just increase the hardness and probably hp on the mature one.  We should also boost the spore acid damage or make it nastier in some way.




I was going to give it DR instead of hardness. Since Protiston sporocarp is a living creature rather than a hazard, I don't think it ought to have hardness.

We're having our "Epic Protiston" effectively instantaneously morph between Slug and Swarm forms, so I was thinking it should be able to spout sporocarps with equal speed.

The "*would be powerful in the sporocarp stage*" can improved "Spell Penalty" for its self-division, maybe even a "Spell Bonus" for the larger sizes of sporocarp.

Here's a rough outline:

*Sporocarp (Ex):* Protiston can transform its body into mushroom-like growths called sporocarps as a standard action. It can use its Self-Division ability to transform pieces of its body into sporocarps while leaving the rest of its body in slime-form. The Protiston Sporocarp Table presented below has statistics for the sporocarps of different sizes.

A protiston sporocarp is incapable of any physical action, so cannot move or make engulf or slam attacks. It can perform any other action, including casting spells without verbal or somatic components - which is every spell Protiston has, due to its Automatic Silent Spell and  Automatic Still Spell feats. The cells of protiston inside a sporocarp are highly coordinated, which heightens the sporocarp's mental abilities and spellcasting abilities (see the table).

When first formed, the sporocarp is soggy, with a fire resistance of X.  Protiston can dry out any or all of its sporocarps in 1 round as a free action. A dried-out sporocarp gains vulnerability to fire and all the protiston cells inside it transform into spores.

Any round a weapon attack does damage to a dried-out sporocarp it splits open, scattering spores in a spread with a radius given in the table. The spores attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living  creatures) and immediately start to digest it, doing XdX points of  acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such  as flesh or wood). On the first round of contact, the spores can be  scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to the spores' acid  damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing  damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage,  sunlight, or a _remove disease_ spell destroys a spore infestation.

The spores will form protiston cells and eventually regrow into squares of protiston's slime-body, but this process takes at least X hours? days? A single spore can reform Protiston's entire body in as little as Y days if it has sufficient food.

*Number
 of 5 ft. . . . . . Height of . . . **. **. Damage**. . Spore Effects . . . . Mental . . Spell
**Squares .. Size .. 'Mushroom' . AC** . Reduction** . Spread / Damage  . .. Modifier***. Modifier***
4-8 . . . Large . . . 10 ft. . . 4 . . 5/— . . . 30 ft. / 2d6 acid . . . -5 . . . . -2
9-15 . . . Huge . . . 20 ft. . . 3 . . 6/— . . . 30 ft. / 3d6 acid  . . . -2 . . . . -1
16-35 . Gargantuan .. 40 ft. . . 1 . . 7/— . . . 40 ft. / 4d6 acid  . . . +0 . . . . +0
36-49 .. Colossal . . 80 ft. . .-3 . . 8/— . . . 50 ft. / 5d6 acid . . . +2 . . . . +1
50+ . .. Colossal+ . 100 ft. . .-3 . . 9/— . . . 60 ft. / 6d6 acid . . . +5 . . . . +2
*Apply this modifier to any Int-, Wis- or Cha-based skill check taken by the piece of protiston in sporocarp form.
**Apply this modifier to the DC and caster level of any spell cast by the piece of protiston in sporocarp form.


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## freyar (Jul 26, 2012)

I think we ought to stick to the precedent of other sporocarps (and animated objects) and use hardness -- yes, they are the exception to the general rule of NA/DR for critters and hardness for objects, but that's the precedent we have established.  Unless you want to change the other sporocarps?

I also don't like the improved mental and spell modifiers.  I read 


> Protiston should be regarded as an advanced form of Dictyostelium, having maximum hit points at any stage. About 30 colonies of Dictyostelium make up the whole of Protiston, and each is scattered up to 300’ apart across several caves or atolls. The power of Protiston’s magic may vary from place to place, depending on the number of colonies in the area, but would be powerful in the sporocarp stage. Protiston may be considered psionic as well (developed as the DM wishes).



as saying that more of Protiston will come together to form a sporocarp, which just boosts its mental/spell powers the same way as usual.

Also, Protiston only has one copy each of Automatic Silent Spell and Automatic Still Spell, so those only work up to 3rd level spells, not all Protiston's spells.

So, all in all, I'd really rather go back to something more like the standard sporocarp.


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## Cleon (Jul 26, 2012)

freyar said:


> I think we ought to stick to the precedent of other sporocarps (and animated objects) and use hardness -- yes, they are the exception to the general rule of NA/DR for critters and hardness for objects, but that's the precedent we have established.  Unless you want to change the other sporocarps?




Well it's only Animated Objects that had hardness in the SRD. I seem to recall that whenever I suggested giving a monster hardness before, I got complaints. 

It doesn't make a wild amount of difference to me, so I don't mind changing it to hardness.



freyar said:


> I also don't like the improved mental and spell modifiers.  I read
> 
> as saying that more of Protiston will come together to form a sporocarp,  which just boosts its mental/spell powers the same way as usual.




Well, I suppose we could include the same mental/spell mods as before. Alternatively, we could go for an intermediary solution and have them have lower modifiers in Sporocarp form.

E.g. a +0/-1/-2/-5/-10 for the mental penalties instead of +0/-2/-5/-10/-15 and +0/-1/-1/-2/-2 for the spell penalty?



freyar said:


> Also, Protiston only has one copy each of Automatic Silent Spell and  Automatic Still Spell, so those only work up to 3rd level spells, not  all Protiston's spells.




Dang, for some reason I thought those feats didn't come in 3-level batches, but were all-or-nothing deals.

I guess we'll have to give it free extra Silent and Still spell metamagic, to allow it to cast spells, or only give it Still and change it so it can make noise in Sporocarp form...



freyar said:


> So, all in all, I'd really rather go back to something more like the standard sporocarp.




Care to lay something out. What do you think about the idea of it being able to "sporocarp" in a round?


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## freyar (Jul 28, 2012)

It's true, I don't like hardness for monsters generally.  But I think we have to go with the precedent from the other sporocarps.

I really prefer just keeping the mental modifiers and casting ability the same as for a slug of the same size.  I wouldn't add any bonus casting feats, either.

I think I would drop Perfect Health and Devastating Crit to make room for 2 more Automatic Silent Spells and give the sporocarp the ability to make small movements suitable for somatic components.  (And, come to think of it, it seems to me that the slug shouldn't be making vocalizations much anyway.)  So, something like this?

Sporocarp (Ex): Protiston can form its body into sporocarps -- objects that resemble mushrooms about 10 feet tall -- as a full round action. It can use its Self-Division ability to form any part of its body into a sporocarps. A sporocarp has the same spellcasting ability as an equivalently sized slug, and it can make small movements that serve as somatic components for spells.

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance X. Such a sporocarp does not have mature spores or a spore attack.

A mature sporocarp is dried-out and has vulnerability to fire. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. It is AC 1, hardness XX, and takes XXX hit points of damage to destroy, but any weapon damage which does not destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores scatter in a cloud covering a 30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest, doing XdX points of acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, Protiston can regrow its entire body from even a single spore.


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## Cleon (Jul 28, 2012)

freyar said:


> It's true, I don't like hardness for monsters generally.  But I think we have to go with the precedent from the other sporocarps.




Well, that bit doesn't make much difference to me.



freyar said:


> I really prefer just keeping the mental modifiers and casting ability the same as for a slug of the same size.  I wouldn't add any bonus casting feats, either.




But the original clearly says Protiston's a better spellcaster when it's a sporocarp. I think we should do _some_ kind of nod to that.



freyar said:


> I think I would drop Perfect Health and Devastating Crit to make room for 2 more Automatic Silent Spells and give the sporocarp the ability to make small movements suitable for somatic components.  (And, come to think of it, it seems to me that the slug shouldn't be making vocalizations much anyway.)  So, something like this?




I'd find it easier to imagine the "mushroom" making noise than performing precise spell-casting gestures. It could, theoretically, build up pressure inside to help disperse spores, which could lead to it releasing said pressure through perforations to create noise. Also, D&D has actual mushrooms that make noise - i.e. Shriekers.

So, if we are feat-fiddling, I'd give it more Automatic Still Spells instead...

If you don't want the "slimebody" version using verbal components either, we might as well give it free AutoStill and AutoSilent spells...


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## freyar (Jul 29, 2012)

What the original says is "The power of Protiston’s magic may vary from place to place, depending on the number of colonies in the area, but would be powerful in the sporocarp stage."  What I think they're trying to say is that Protiston always comes together to make a single big sporocarp, which therefore has great casting because Protiston is all together in one place.  There's really nothing there to indicate it'd be a better caster as a sporocarp than as an equally-sized slug.

We can swap to more Auto Still feats if you'd rather.  I also guess we could give it free Auto Still and Auto Silent if you really want, but I don't know what two other feats we'd want to add.


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## Cleon (Jul 29, 2012)

freyar said:


> What the original says is "The power of Protiston’s magic may vary from place to place, depending on the number of colonies in the area, but would be powerful in the sporocarp stage."  What I think they're trying to say is that Protiston always comes together to make a single big sporocarp, which therefore has great casting because Protiston is all together in one place.  There's really nothing there to indicate it'd be a better caster as a sporocarp than as an equally-sized slug.




Well that's based on the assumption that Protiston forms a single fruiting body, and I think the text says otherwise.

It says Protiston is a slime mold "a type of creature (described below) which alternates between being a swarm of individual amoebae and a *colony *that looks like a large, distorted mushroom" and then goes on to say "About 30 *colonies *of Dictyostelium make up the whole of Protiston".

The "mushroom" in question seems quite clearly to be a sporocarp.

So, if Protiston comprises about thirty colonies/swarms, and each colony can look like a mushroom, Protiston can take the form of 30 "mushrooms". Which means the original monster became thirty sporocarps, not just one.



freyar said:


> We can swap to more Auto Still feats if you'd rather.  I also guess we could give it free Auto Still and Auto Silent if you really want, but I don't know what two other feats we'd want to add.




I think it's easier if we just give it the special ability to automatically cast spells Silently and Stilled when it is in sporocarp form.


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## freyar (Jul 30, 2012)

I think your assumption that they mean the same thing by "colony" consistently throughout the original description is suspect given how sketchy a lot of these older monster descriptions can be.   But, tell you what, here's a compromise.  Let's give old Proty free Auto Silent and Auto Still in sporocarp form.  Maybe even another free metamagic feat if you wish, as a nod to augmenting the sporocarp's casting, but no extra mental boost.  Then it doesn't seem to need Auto Silent and Auto Still in slug form so much, so we could replace those feats if we like.  Agreeable?


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## Cleon (Jul 31, 2012)

freyar said:


> I think your assumption that they mean the same thing by "colony" consistently throughout the original description is suspect given how sketchy a lot of these older monster descriptions can be.   But, tell you what, here's a compromise.  Let's give old Proty free Auto Silent and Auto Still in sporocarp form.  Maybe even another free metamagic feat if you wish, as a nod to augmenting the sporocarp's casting, but no extra mental boost.  Then it doesn't seem to need Auto Silent and Auto Still in slug form so much, so we could replace those feats if we like.  Agreeable?




Well it may be suspect, but assuming they mean the same thing by "colony" requires fewer entities than assuming they mean different things, so it's the simpler hypotheses and more likely to be correct.

The Occam's Razor approach to monster making. 

Anyhows, I can go along with your proposal. Epic Skill Focus in Hide and Move Silently?


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## freyar (Jul 31, 2012)

I don't really see Protiston as being that sneaky.  How about a couple copies of Imp Spell Capacity to get some 10th level spell slots (or 10th and 11th)?


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## Cleon (Aug 1, 2012)

freyar said:


> I don't really see Protiston as being that sneaky.  How about a couple copies of Imp Spell Capacity to get some 10th level spell slots (or 10th and 11th)?




It'd be a 10th level slot and an 11th level one, going by the RAW.

Not sure I like that, since it's only like to use Enlarge and Maximize on it, which isn't that great.

How about Epic Spellcasting and Epic Skill Focus (Spellcraft)?


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## freyar (Aug 1, 2012)

Actually, you can choose the spell level up to 1 more than your current highest spell slot.  But we could go with something else.  Epic Spellcasting is fine (do we need to figure what epic spells it has?).  Epic Skill Focus doesn't do a lot for me, though.  What about another metamagic feat, like Heighten Spell?


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## Cleon (Aug 2, 2012)

freyar said:


> Actually, you can choose the spell level up to 1 more than your current highest spell slot.  But we could go with something else.  Epic Spellcasting is fine (do we need to figure what epic spells it has?).  Epic Skill Focus doesn't do a lot for me, though.  What about another metamagic feat, like Heighten Spell?




Epic Spellcasting is dependent on Spellcraft checks, so ESF (Spellcraft) allows for things like _contingent resurrection_ (Spellcraft DC 52) or _mass frog_ (DC 55) on a 1+.


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## freyar (Aug 2, 2012)

Well, Protiston would only have needed to roll a 11+ to develop mass frog.  Still, I can go for that.  I guess it can cast 3 epic spells per day, so should it know 3 different epic spells?  What should we say Protiston has developed?


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## Cleon (Aug 4, 2012)

freyar said:


> Well, Protiston would only have needed to roll a 11+ to develop mass frog.  Still, I can go for that.  I guess it can cast 3 epic spells per day, so should it know 3 different epic spells?  What should we say Protiston has developed?




I'm tempted to leave it up to the DM, but appropriate or usefull spells of suitable DC include the aforementioned _contingent resurrection_ and _mass frog_ (except it turn victims into tiny oozes?), plus _create living vault_ (there's a mention of it using modified macrobes as treasure containers/guardians, which that epic spell fits to), _let go of me_, _peripety_, _verdigris_ (except with macrobial slime rather than plants?).


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## freyar (Aug 7, 2012)

I like mass frog (using amoeboid slime mold), create living vault, and slimy verdigris, I think.  Of course, there's nothing to stop us giving it more epic spells known if you like.


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## Cleon (Aug 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> I like mass frog (using amoeboid slime mold), create living vault, and slimy verdigris, I think.  Of course, there's nothing to stop us giving it more epic spells known if you like.




How about adding _raise island_ to its Epic Spells? The flavour text says it wants to shape the world to suit itself and that it likes to live in coral reefs and shoreline caves, so that spell would fit.

We'll need to modify the Spells entry a bit, or add an Epic Spells SA.

Protiston is capable of casting epic spells. It has 3 epic spell slots per day. Its immensely long life gives protiston plenty of time to develop epic spells. It prefers epic spells of Transformation or Conjuration, and never develops an epic spell that does fire damage. Typical epic spells for protiston are
_create living vault_, _raise island_,_ mass blob_ (as the epic spell _mass frog_, except it turns targets into Tiny-sized amoeboid blobs with the stats of toads) and _slime tsunami _(as the epic spell _verdigris_, except it overgrows the area with slimy bacterial mats instead of plants).


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## freyar (Aug 8, 2012)

Could mass blob just give the victims the physical stats of a Tiny amoeboid slime mold?  (We could put in a link.)  Or do you feel the power level of the slime mold is too far off from a frog?


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## Cleon (Aug 8, 2012)

freyar said:


> Could mass blob just give the victims the physical stats of a Tiny amoeboid slime mold?  (We could put in a link.)  Or do you feel the power level of the slime mold is too far off from a frog?




Compared to a typical Epic Level Character, the power-difference between a toad and an amoeboid slime mold is negligible.

I was hesitant to change the target creature's power level because I feared that might affect the Spellcraft DC of the Epic Spell, but after re-reading the rules it doesn't look like it'd make any difference, so we might as well use the Slime Mold's amoeba.

Revising...

Protiston is capable of casting epic spells. It has 3 epic spell slots  per day. Its immensely long life gives protiston plenty of time to  develop epic spells. It prefers epic spells of Transformation or  Conjuration, and never develops an epic spell that does fire damage.  Typical epic spells for protiston are _create living vault_, _raise island_,_ mass blob_ (as the epic spell _mass frog_, except it turns targets into Tiny-sized amoeboid slime molds) and _slime tsunami _(as the epic spell _verdigris_, except it overgrows the area with slimy bacterial mats instead of plants).


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## freyar (Aug 10, 2012)

Looks good.  If we update with that and the revised sporocarp, I think it's done!


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## Cleon (Aug 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> Looks good.  If we update with that and the revised sporocarp, I think it's done!




I don't recall us getting around to writing up the Ultimate Revised Sporocarp, but I'll update the *Protiston Working Draft* with the Epic Spellcasting while you find it...


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## freyar (Aug 13, 2012)

Sporocarp (Ex): Protiston can form its body into sporocarps -- objects that resemble mushrooms about 10 feet tall -- as a full round action. It can use its Self-Division ability to form any part of its body into a sporocarps. A sporocarp has the same spellcasting ability as an equivalently sized slug, and it gains Automatic Silent Spell (x3) and Automatic Still Spell (x3) as bonus feats in sporocarp form.

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance X. Such a sporocarp does not have mature spores or a spore attack.

A mature sporocarp is dried-out and has vulnerability to fire. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. It is AC 1, hardness XX, and takes XXX hit points of damage to destroy, but any weapon damage which does not destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores scatter in a cloud covering a 30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest, doing XdX points of acid damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, Protiston can regrow its entire body from even a single spore.



To fill in the blanks, the original (from standard slime molds) sporocarp had fire resistance 5 in soggy form.  In hard form, it has AC 1, hardness 5, and takes 120 hit points to destroy.  The spores do 2d4 acid per round.  Want to boost those any?


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## Cleon (Aug 13, 2012)

freyar said:


> Sporocarp (Ex): Protiston can form its body into sporocarps -- objects that resemble mushrooms about 10 feet tall -- as a full round action. It can use its Self-Division ability to form any part of its body into a sporocarps. A sporocarp has the same spellcasting ability as an equivalently sized slug, and it gains Automatic Silent Spell (x3) and Automatic Still Spell (x3) as bonus feats in sporocarp form.
> 
> Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance X. Such a sporocarp does not have mature spores or a spore attack.
> 
> ...




I think it should retain the hit points of whatever size piece of Protiston is formed into a Sporocarp, and its spore-cloud should probably do the same acid damage as a piece of that size.

Also, 10 feet tall is how big a Large slime mold's Sporocarp is. A bigger piece of Protiston should have a correspondingly larger 'shroom (or, rather 'carp).


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## freyar (Aug 16, 2012)

Hmmmm.  Height of sporocarp=space of slug?  Bump hardness and fire resistance to 10?  Acid per round = slam acid damage?  I could do that.


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## Cleon (Aug 16, 2012)

freyar said:


> Hmmmm.  Height of sporocarp=space of slug?  Bump hardness and fire resistance to 10?  Acid per round = slam acid damage?  I could do that.




That seems a bit short for the Huge+ sizes, although they could be very wide "mushrooms".

We could go for twice the Reach of the "Slug", for 10/20/30/40/60 ft. for Large/Huge/Gargantuan/Colossal/Colossal+ portions and 80 ft. for if all Protiston's combined into a sporocarp.


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## freyar (Aug 17, 2012)

How about this?

Sporocarp (Ex): Protiston can form its body into sporocarps -- objects that resemble mushrooms -- as a full round action. It can use its Self-Division ability to form any part of its body into a sporocarps. A sporocarp has the same spellcasting ability as an equivalently sized slug, and it gains Automatic Silent Spell (x3) and Automatic Still Spell (x3) as bonus feats in sporocarp form.  The sporocarp is twice as tall as the reach of the equivalently sized Protiston slug.

Partially developed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus, giving them fire resistance 10. Such a sporocarp does not have mature spores or a spore attack.

A mature sporocarp is dried-out and has vulnerability to fire. The head of the "mushroom" is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. It is AC 1, hardness 10.  The sporocarp has as many hit points as an equivalently sized slug, but any weapon damage which does not destroy the sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores scatter in a cloud covering a 30 foot radius and attach themselves to any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they immediately start to digest, doing acid damage equal to an equivalently sized slug's slam damage per round (the acid damage only harms organic materials such as flesh or wood). On the first round of contact, the spores can be scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a remove disease spell destroys a spore infestation.

Given enough time and food, Protiston can regrow its entire body from even a single spore.


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## Cleon (Aug 18, 2012)

freyar said:


> How about this?
> 
> Sporocarp (Ex): Protiston can form its body into sporocarps -- objects that resemble mushrooms -- as a full round action. It can use its Self-Division ability to form any part of its body into a sporocarps. A sporocarp has the same spellcasting ability as an equivalently sized slug, and it gains Automatic Silent Spell (x3) and Automatic Still Spell (x3) as bonus feats in sporocarp form.  The sporocarp is twice as tall as the reach of the equivalently sized Protiston slug.
> 
> ...




I'd change the references to the "slug", since our working draft doesn't use that term for Protiston's normal form.

We'll also need to say how long it takes for a sporocarp to mature - maybe a minute or a few rounds?

I'd also have the size of the spore cloud vary with the Sporocarp's size.

Revising...

*Sporocarp (Ex):* As a full round action, protiston can form its body into sporocarps — objects  that resemble mushrooms. It can use its  Self-Division ability to form a part or parts of its body into sporocarps while the rest of its body remains in its normal slime form.

A sporocarp has AC 1, hardness 10, and the same hit points and spellcasting ability as a normal piece of Protiston and it gains Automatic Silent Spell (x3) and Automatic Still Spell  (x3) as bonus feats while in sporocarp form. It is incapable of moving (so has speed 0 ft. and cannot make physical attacks), but has full use of its senses and mental abilities. A sporocarp is twice as tall  as the reach of the equivalently sized piece of Protiston.

Newly formed sporocarps are soggy and covered with damp mucus,  giving them fire resistance 10. After X rounds the sporocarp will mature, drying out and gaining vulnerability to fire.

The "mushroom" head  of a mature sporocarp is hollow and filled with spores about an inch long. Any weapon damage which does not destroy a mature sporocarp causes it to split open and release its spores. The spores  scatter in a cloud covering a radius equal to 30 foot or the sporocarp's height, whichever is greater. The spores in this cloud attach themselves to  any organic matter they touch (including living creatures), which they  immediately start to digest, doing acid damage equal to an equivalently  sized piece of protiston (see Self-Division, above). This acid damage only harms organic  materials such as flesh or wood. On the first round of contact, the  spores can be scraped off a creature (exposing the scraping device to  the spores' acid damage), but after that it must be frozen, burned, or  cut away (dealing damage to the victim as well). Anything that deals  cold or fire damage, sunlight, or a _remove disease_ spell destroys a  spore infestation.

The spores will form protiston cells and eventually regrow into squares  of protiston's slime-body, a process that usually takes X minutes? hours?  days? A single spore can reform Protiston's entire body in as little as Y  days if it has sufficient food.


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## freyar (Aug 20, 2012)

If we want the new sporocarp to dry quickly, I'd say 1 hour.  If we want it to dry during the course of combat, I'd say 1d10 rounds.

Let's say the regrowth time takes 1d4 hours for a 5 ft sq "slug" and perhaps 2d4 days for the whole thing.  Sound reasonable?


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## Cleon (Aug 21, 2012)

freyar said:


> If we want the new sporocarp to dry quickly, I'd say 1 hour.  If we want it to dry during the course of combat, I'd say 1d10 rounds.




I prefer a "quick drying" approach.



freyar said:


> Let's say the regrowth time takes 1d4 hours for a 5 ft sq "slug" and  perhaps 2d4 days for the whole thing.  Sound reasonable?




Protiston is 100 squares in total, so at 2.5 hours per square it'd need roughly 10 days to completely regrow.

That's significantly more than the "2d4 days for the whole thing" above.

We could increase the "whole thing" regrowth to, say, 1d10+10 days, or reduce the per-square growth to 1 hour per square.

I prefer the 1d4 hour/1d10+10 day approach.

Logically, Protiston is more llikely to grow geometrically - e.g. X hours for 1 square, 2X hours for 2 squares, 3X hours for 4 squares, et cetera, but that might be unattractive for the more math-phobic DMs.


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## freyar (Aug 23, 2012)

So did you want 1 hour or 1d10 rounds for the drying time?

Well, the 1d4 hours for 5 ft sq vs 2d4 days for the whole thing was an attempt to interpolate between the linear and geometric growth without getting into the math much.  If you want 1d10+10 days, though, that's ok.


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## Cleon (Aug 24, 2012)

freyar said:


> So did you want 1 hour or 1d10 rounds for the drying time?




1d10 rounds.



freyar said:


> Well, the 1d4 hours for 5 ft sq vs 2d4 days for the whole thing was an attempt to interpolate between the linear and geometric growth without getting into the math much.  If you want 1d10+10 days, though, that's ok.




Well, basically I don't like nailing it down to X hours per square.

How about having something with a bit vaguer wording, such as:

The spores will form protiston cells and eventually regrow protiston's slime-body. How long it takes for the spores to grow varies greatly and depends on  the size of regrowth, the food supply, and the degree of humidity and warmth. The process typically takes 1d4 hours to regrow a few 5-foot squares, but it may take up to 1d10+10 days to regrow protiston's entire body from a single spore.


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## freyar (Aug 29, 2012)

Sure, that works for me.  But I think "Protiston's" near the end should be capitalized.  Are we done after that?


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## Cleon (Aug 30, 2012)

freyar said:


> Sure, that works for me.  But I think "Protiston's" near the end should be capitalized.  Are we done after that?




Well we have inconsistent capitalisation in the working draft, with a seemingly random mix of "protiston" and "Protiston".

Since "Protiston" appears to be a proper name (albeit one given to it by another creature), we ought to capitalize it.

I'll update the *Protiston Working Draft* with the Sporocarp and "Protiston".


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## freyar (Sep 5, 2012)

That looks good.  Let's just drop the ? on the CR and turn the "X" for the sporocarp drying time into 1d10 rounds.  Then it's done!


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## Cleon (Sep 5, 2012)

freyar said:


> That looks good.  Let's just drop the ? on the CR and turn the "X" for the sporocarp drying time into 1d10 rounds.  Then it's done!




I'll remove the ? from the *Protiston Working Draft* but am not 100% decided on the drying time.

If we want its Sporocarp transformation to be at all useful in combat we should probably make it faster (a round or two), since high level 3E D&D fights rarely last as long as 10 rounds.

If we want it to be something that happens between encounters we could easily make it longer.


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## freyar (Sep 7, 2012)

I'm not convinced that Protiston would really want to waste time during combat transforming into a sporocarp.  I guess I'd be inclined to make the drying time more like an hour and have it happen between encounters.  If you really want it to be useful in combat, let's go for 1d6 rounds.  I'll let you choose.


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## Cleon (Sep 7, 2012)

freyar said:


> I'm not convinced that Protiston would really want to waste time during combat transforming into a sporocarp.  I guess I'd be inclined to make the drying time more like an hour and have it happen between encounters.  If you really want it to be useful in combat, let's go for 1d6 rounds.  I'll let you choose.




Since you prefer a "between encounters" version I'd make it something in minutes. Say, 2d6 minutes?

If Protiston _really_ wants to turn into a Sporocarp quickly, it can simply _polymorph any object_ itself into one.


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2012)

2d6 minutes sounds fine.  All done with Protiston and therefore this thread?


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## Cleon (Sep 11, 2012)

freyar said:


> 2d6 minutes sounds fine.  All done with Protiston and therefore this thread?




Looks that way. 

Updating the *Protiston Working Draft*.

I had a quick check for stat errors and typos, but all I could find was a "to to surround" in tactics.

Looks like we're done here.


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## freyar (Sep 14, 2012)

Woohoo!


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## Cleon (Sep 15, 2012)

freyar said:


> Woohoo!




I'll dance a little protoplasmic victory jig.


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