# Worst sequel in movie history.



## Dark Jezter (Sep 6, 2003)

As the title of this thread indicates, this thread is for posting your thoughts on the worst sequel in Movie History.  I'll start, although my choice will probably be one of the most obvious.

*Worst Movie Sequel Ever:*  Highlander 2

*Runner-ups:*  Conan the Destroyer, Mortal Kombat: Annihalation


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## Crothian (Sep 6, 2003)

I feel Matrix reloaded was a big drop from the orginal.  Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey was terrible.  Blues Brother 2000!!  Jaws 3 and 4; Caddyshack 2; Speed 2.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 6, 2003)

Highlander 2...? Nah, they never made that movie. There was some fan movie that was crap or something...but nothing REAL. No one would be THAT stupid.

But to Answer the question, I'll go with Crothian and say Jaws 3 and 4.


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## Chain Lightning (Sep 7, 2003)

I say Highlander does win the prize. I mean, there could be worse out there...I'm sure. Ones I haven't seen yet. But, it wins the prize because, not only did it have a bad sequel....it had MANY bad sequels! And they kept making them. Failing over and over again.

A few others that come to mind :

-Alien 4
-Tomb Raider 2: Cradle of Life
-Superman 4 Quest for Peace
-Batman & Robin
-Universal Soldier: The Return


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## Dark Jezter (Sep 7, 2003)

Hehehe.  The fact that a large number of Highlander fans refuse to aknowledge that Highlander 2 even exists is a testament to it's suckiness.


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## reapersaurus (Sep 7, 2003)

Definately Highlander 2


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 7, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Hehehe.  The fact that a large number of Highlander fans refuse to aknowledge that Highlander 2 even exists is a testament to it's suckiness.



 I keep hearing about Highlander 2...what is with you people? Did I just wipe my memory from some horrible event? I KNOW that movie didn't exist! Not possible...I would REMEMBER it...


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 7, 2003)

[Insert the name of any Halloween sequel here].
Other then that, I'd say Jaws 4: The Revenge and Grease 2. Or maybe any and all of the DTV Disney sequels. Or maybe Godzilla's Revenge. Or maybe Alien Resurrection.
There are so many to choose, it's like a buffet.

Demiurge out.


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## RangerWickett (Sep 7, 2003)

Try rewatching Aliens Ressurection as a campy fun movie, and you'll enjoy it.  Try to watch it as a serious movie with real danger, and you won't enjoy it.

I wish I could've rewritten the ending of Blues Brothers 2000.  The militants and the KGB rush in and threaten everyone, and then Elwood would've given that inspirational speech to the crowd . . . the same speech he gave to his band when their car broke down.  He would encourage them that they have to defend the blues.  The crowd would cheer, and the voodoo lady would've _then_ turned them into rats.  That would've been a gratifying ending. The rest of the movie was still fun, though.  I mean, c'mon, how many dozen cop cars did they destroy?  Hee hee.

Highlander 2 was wretched, yes, but . . . and trust me, I love the Highlander TV series . . . but c'mon, it was a sequel to the original Highlander movie.  You didn't expect it to be very good, did you?  

Similarly, . . . okay, not similar.  Mortal Kombat 2 was bad enough that it was funny, if you're willing to laugh at it and heckle it.  If a movie is bad in a way that you can heckle it, it's not horrible.  But some movies just take a good concept and drag it through the mud, making it painful to watch.

Batman 4.

I hate Joel Schumacher.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Sep 7, 2003)

I'm gonna have to go with Batman and Robin.  They took so many great characters into one movie and ruined them all...

Highlander 2 - The Nonexistant while bad...  I wasn't expecting much from it.  So while I was disappointed, not as badly as I was with Batman and Robin.


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## Silver Moon (Sep 7, 2003)

Worthy entries one and all, and for fantasy and Sci-fi I'll agree with Highlander II.  As for sequels in general, the absolute worst sequel had to be The Sting II.   Made a full decade after the classic original, the character played by Paul Newman in the was recast with Jackie Gleason and the Robert Redford character was recast with singer Mac Davis.    They also recast Robert Shaw's character, but since he had died I guess we can forgive them for that.


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## orbitalfreak (Sep 7, 2003)

Alien Resurrection
Batman & Robin, especially since Batgirl didn't have red hair.
Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
Star Trek: Nemesis
Star Trek: Insurrection
Mortal Kombat 2


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## KenM (Sep 7, 2003)

Remember, they are working on a DnD movie sequel..............


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Sep 7, 2003)

> Batman & Robin, especially since Batgirl didn't have red hair.




Orbitalfreak, is that the worst thing you can say about that movie?  I salute you, my friend.  You are King Geek.

I gotta go with Batman and Robin.  I've never talked in a crowded movie theater before, but I couldn't wait for the credits to start ripping on that hackjob.  I found it telling that not one person shushed me.

I would have said Highlander II, but was it really that much worse than the first one?  There's some fan adulation that I just don't get.  To me, Highlander is right up there with Dr. Who in terms of sheer "People enjoy this crap?"-itude.


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## Shadowdancer (Sep 7, 2003)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I feel Matrix reloaded was a big drop from the orginal. Bill and Ted's Bogus Journey was terrible. Blues Brother 2000!! Jaws 3 and 4; Caddyshack 2; Speed 2.




DING! DING! DING! DING! We have a winner!

Caddyshack 2 and Speed 2 probably tie for the title of worst sequel ever.


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## Shadowdancer (Sep 7, 2003)

Chain Lightning said:
			
		

> Tomb Raider 2: Cradle of Life




You must be joking. I thought Cradle of Life was better than the first Tombe Raider, and I liked both movies.


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## Welverin (Sep 7, 2003)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Batman 4.
> 
> I hate Joel Schumacher.




Preach on brother!

To this day and until the day I die, I will refuse to watch any movie directed by that man.

My vote goes to MK:A, god was it awful. Batman & Robin I didn't see, so I can't vote for it.


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## Silver Moon (Sep 7, 2003)

Speed 2?   What's not to like about a film where a cruise ship full of yuppies crashes up on a beach?   And any film with William Defoe as the bad guy can't be all wrong.  

Blue Brothers 2000 was a waste of time and money.  I do remember laughing during one scene, but forget what it was now, and would prefer to NOT think about that film in detail until I remember.


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## Mark Chance (Sep 7, 2003)

Exorcist 2. Definitely Exorcist 2.

Sequels like Speed 2, the follow up to Mortal Kombat, et cetera, don't count because the predecessors weren't worth the effort either.


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## Tonguez (Sep 7, 2003)

You guys forgot *Grease 2*

but then I don't blame you for forgetting Grease 2


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## Dreeble (Sep 7, 2003)

Heya:

 Bill & Ted's Bogus Journey was awesome.  "You sunk my battlesheep!"

Take care,
Dreeble


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## mojo1701 (Sep 7, 2003)

orbitalfreak said:
			
		

> Alien Resurrection
> Batman & Robin, especially since Batgirl didn't have red hair.
> Star Trek III: The Search for Spock
> Star Trek: Nemesis
> ...




I didn't mind Nemesis (I thought it was a good-enough plot to _barely_ stay within the odd/even rule of the ST movies). I'm a TNG guy enough to stand the TNG movies, but Insurrection was low...

And as for MK2, the first one had more memorable moments (and lines). "Those were $500 sunglasses..."


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## Silver Moon (Sep 7, 2003)

orbitalfreak said:
			
		

> Batman & Robin, especially since Batgirl didn't have red hair



And did you notice that both Batman and Robin had nipples showing on their costumes but she didn't?  What's up with that?


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## Pants (Sep 7, 2003)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> And did you notice that both Batman and Robin had nipples showing on their costumes but she didn't?  What's up with that?



Clooney's Batman suit came with good ventilation and air conditioning


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## Morpheus (Sep 7, 2003)

Although Highlander 2 blew chunks, I have to go with Speed 2. I want that 1 and half hours of my life back...


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## Richards (Sep 7, 2003)

I have to also go with _Batman and Robin_.  I only paid $2.00 to see it (at a military theater) and I was pissed that I had wasted my money (and time) two minutes into the movie.

Originally posted by Tarrasque Wrangler:







> To me, Highlander is right up there with Dr. Who in terms of sheer "People enjoy this crap?"-itude.



I enjoy _Dr. Who._  It's admittedly an acquired taste, and not for those who rely upon good (or - let's be honest here - even average) special effects for their science fiction.

Johnathan


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## Tewligan (Sep 7, 2003)

_The Phantom Menace_ and, to a lesser extent, _Attack of the Clones_. George Lucas can smooch my rosy red backside for sodomizing my fond Star Wars memories with this crap.


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## Kai Lord (Sep 7, 2003)

Welverin said:
			
		

> Preach on brother!
> 
> To this day and until the day I die, I will refuse to watch any movie directed by that man.



Too bad, this year's Phone Booth was awesome.


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## mojo1701 (Sep 7, 2003)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> _The Phantom Menace_ and, to a lesser extent, _Attack of the Clones_. George Lucas can smooch my rosy red backside for sodomizing my fond Star Wars memories with this crap.




I believe sodomy is illegal in certain states.

Anyway, yeah. (even though I'm not old enough to have seen the Original Trilogy without the Prequel Trilogy - me being almost 17 and all.)


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 7, 2003)

mojo1701 said:
			
		

> I believe sodomy is illegal in certain states.
> 
> Anyway, yeah. (even though I'm not old enough to have seen the Original Trilogy without the Prequel Trilogy - me being almost 17 and all.)




I'm 17 and I've been watching the OT since I was 3...age is no excuse!!!  

I won't start an argument about comparing the trilogies. I just don't find the Prequels to be as bad as some people say they are. Look at the OT, and you'll see they aren't the greatest things in the world. We're the ones who've aged, not the movies. That's where most of the problems lie.


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## mojo1701 (Sep 7, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I'm 17 and I've been watching the OT since I was 3...age is no excuse!!!
> 
> I won't start an argument about comparing the trilogies. I just don't find the Prequels to be as bad as some people say they are. Look at the OT, and you'll see they aren't the greatest things in the world. We're the ones who've aged, not the movies. That's where most of the problems lie.




Very well. And I agree. I've heard a lot of people that don't like the new ones, but that's precisely the reason right there.

Besides, I wasn't into it (not until I was dragged to see Ep. I... long story...) and I also didn't know anyone who was into it much.


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## Villano (Sep 7, 2003)

Oohhh..This is one tough subject.  I mean there are so many choices.  Let's see:

-Highlander 2-up (the utter awfulness of 2 makes people forget there were sequels nearly as bad)
-Mortal Kombat: Annihilation
-Jaws 2-up
-Halloween 4-up (I've never seen 3, so I can't count it)
-Phantom Menace
-Attack Of The Clones
-The World Is Not Enough (worst Bond film ever!)
-Jason Takes Manhattan (what the hell...?!)
-Batman & Robin
-Batman Forever
-Alien 3
-Matrix Reloaded (yes, it did suck)

Even though I've never seen them, I'll jog some people's memories by tossing out the word "Leprechaun".  Relive the pain! *insert evil laughter here*


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## Villano (Sep 8, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I'm 17 and I've been watching the OT since I was 3...age is no excuse!!!
> 
> I won't start an argument about comparing the trilogies. I just don't find the Prequels to be as bad as some people say they are. Look at the OT, and you'll see they aren't the greatest things in the world. We're the ones who've aged, not the movies. That's where most of the problems lie.




No, it's just that the new movies suck. 

Don't get me wrong, it's okay to like movies that suck.  I happen to like the Star Trek Meets God movie.  Cheese is good.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 8, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> No, it's just that the new movies suck.
> 
> Don't get me wrong, it's okay to like movies that suck.  I happen to like the Star Trek Meets God movie.  Cheese is good.



 Heh.

I don't agree at all. They don't suck...no, they aren't as good as the OT, but that's impossible. The Prequel's have a completely different mood to them...you have to detact yourself from the mood and feel of the OT to get into the Prequels. Besides...the Prequels happened BEFORE that type of mood existed anyway...but, eh. I said I wouldn't get into this...oh well.


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## Mark Chance (Sep 8, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I don't agree at all. They don't suck...no, they aren't as good as the OT, but that's impossible. The Prequel's have a completely different mood to them




Granted, the moods are different, but is "sucky" really an appropriate mood?


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 8, 2003)

Mark Chance said:
			
		

> Granted, the moods are different, but is "sucky" really an appropriate mood?



 Yes. So Nyah!


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## Knightcrawler (Sep 8, 2003)

Hmm lets ee worst sequels.

-Highlander 2
-Jaws 2+
-Star Trek 3 & 5
-Batman Forver
-Batman & Robin
-Aliens 3+
-Mortal Kombat 2
-From Dusk Till Dawn 2+
-Ninja Scrolls 2


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## Tratyn Runewind (Sep 8, 2003)

Hello,

Regarding the _Highlander 2_ question:  I'm pretty sure there was a re-edited "Renegade Version" that came out on video.  It was supposed to be much closer to the creators' original intention than the...thing...that showed up in theaters wearing the H2 name.  Among other things, it supposedly eliminated any reference to the immortals being some sort of alien race.  Though not explicitly stated anywhere as far as I know, I've heard that this is also the version supposedly taken as canon for purposes of the TV series.  Has anyone around here seen this version?  How much of an improvement is it?  (I'm going on the theory that pretty much any change would be for the better.)

Like Mark Chance and others, I also think it's interesting to contrast sequels that everyone pretty much knew were going to be bad (say, the _Mortal Kombat_ sequel, and any sequel that went straight-to-video like the _From Dusk 'til Dawn_ sequels), and were, to sequels that had high expectations and failed to reach them (like the _Star Wars_ prequels, and the _Matrix_ sequel) but are not really horrible taken on their own.  I think one reason _Highlander 2_ makes these lists so often is that it did have high expectations and yet did turn out absolutely horribly.  

I actually like _Conan the Destroyer_, too, but then, stirring Basil Poledouris music and a scantily-clad young Olivia d'Abo count for a lot with me...


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## Silver Moon (Sep 8, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> They don't suck...no, they aren't as good as the OT, but that's impossible. The Prequel's have a completely different mood to them...you have to detact yourself from the mood and feel of the OT to get into the Prequels.



My kids (now ages 5, 8 & 10) have not seen any of the Star Wars films.  I have all five on tape, and my plan is to let them watch them in order I. to VI.    We'll view the first two just prior to III.'s release to the theatres, see it there, then IV. to VI. afterwards.   Sure, the prequel isn't as good, but that's fine in this case as they will just be moving on to something better.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 8, 2003)

*Highlander 2* - felt that movie left stains on me and I needed to be cleaned like a bady!  To this day I even hate to say I saw it and I tell people NOT TO WATCH IT, which is a funny shory as a friend did and went on to tell me how bad it was and why I did not warn him!  So, what every you do DO NOT WATCH IT!  

*Speed 2* was a okay movie but I have this thing for Sandra.


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## JoeBlank (Sep 8, 2003)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> *Highlander 2* - felt that movie left stains on me and I needed to be cleaned like a bady! To this day I even hate to say I saw it and I tell people NOT TO WATCH IT, which is a funny shory as a friend did and went on to tell me how bad it was and why I did not warn him! So, what every you do DO NOT WATCH IT!



I was not going to say anything, but now I have given in to temptation. I just have to brag that I am one of the rare people who have listened to the warnings. I liked Highlander, was warned to avoid the sequels, and have done so.

So for those of you going to the effort to warn people about Highlander 2, and thinking "If I can just save one person, it will be worth it", keep up the good work. You saved me. Thanks.


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## KnowTheToe (Sep 8, 2003)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Too bad, this year's Phone Booth was awesome.




You are kidding, right?  To each there own.  I am glad someone enjoyed it.

The worst sequal is such a difficult choice.  I have never had so many choices.  Many many good nominations above.

The question I ask myself is if I can really count any horro movie sequal as bad.  I mean, it is horror after all.  So that eliminates the leprichan and other similar movies.

Star Trek where they meet god is one of the worst movies I have ever seen.  On the other hand it was the 6th or 7th movie in the series, so I will cut it some slack.

Grease 2, gee I wonder why that sucked.  I was sooo surprised.

The whole Batman series of movies except the first one would qualify as the worst sequal.  It should be a crime to treat batman like this.

The Star Wars Prequils are my biggest disappointment, but it would be hard to capture the same magic of the originals.  Tapping into mainstream culture with such a huge impact is not an easy thing to do.  Thank god PJ did such a great job with LoTR.

Hannibal was also a rally really bad movie that did not catch any of the magic of the original Silence of the Lambs.


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## rbingham2000 (Sep 8, 2003)

I'd also like to throw in my vote for Batman and Robin.

While I rather liked the Batman Forever movie (and Jim Carrey is one of the main reasons -- he is funny as hell), that movie indeed sucked.

My main complaints about the Batman and Robin movie were the fact that a lot of the score was ripped from Batman Forever (the most GLARING example being the climactic score), and the fact that they completely emasculated Bane.

Bane.

The man who broke the Bat. 

One of the only Batman villains smart enough to figure out Batman was Bruce Wayne.

And exactly _what_ did the filmmakers do to the guy?

They made him the meat-head muscle for Freeze and Poison Ivy.

*WHY?!?!*


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## VorpalBunny (Sep 8, 2003)

*Caddyshack 2
Batman Forever
Batman & Robin
Highlander 2
Star Trek: Insurrection
Star Wars Episode I: The Pantom Menace*
*Grease 2
Star Trek V: The Final Frontier
Godfather 3
Alien Resurrection
Superman IV: The Quest for Peace
Escape from the Planet of the Apes
Jason X* (Jason in _Spaaaaaaaace!!!!_)
*Star Trek: Nemesis
Licence to Kill* Good Bond actor, worst Bond movie. Ever.


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## buzzard (Sep 8, 2003)

I'm wondering why noone has nominated Batman Returns? I found that to be appreciably worse than Batman Forever (of course, I though Val Kilmer was better than Keaton, but that's probably blasphemy). 

Of course there should also be honorable mention for Superman IV The Quest for Peace. (YEEEECCCHHHH!!!). 

Die Hard 2 - dumbest premise for a disaster of all time. 

The later Pink Panther movies were complete and utter dreck (Revenge and the rest). 

The Meatballs sequels were pretty horrible. 

The Police Academy series (the first was OK), which went on for a ridiculous number of sequels really plumbed new sewer depths. 

buzzard


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## rbingham2000 (Sep 8, 2003)

buzzard said:
			
		

> I'm wondering why noone has nomiated Batman Returns? I found that to be appreciably worse than Batman Forever (of course, I though Val Kilmer was better than Keaton, but that's probably blasphemy).




Perhaps the reason no one's nominated Batman Returns is that it is in no way a bad movie, even though the first movie is better.

Basically, the guy that really made the movie was the Penguin. In contrast to the Joker's wild psychotic insanity, the Penguin's story is full of the kind of pathos that Joel Schumacher couldn't match with Mr. Freeze. He's quite the interesting character from start to finish.

Catwoman was also an interesting character to watch, being both the romantic lead (as Selina Kyle) and the second villain of the movie. Selina's transformation scene in particular is really something to watch, and whoever wrote the screenplay for the movie knows how to do scene work.


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## KnowTheToe (Sep 8, 2003)

buzzard said:
			
		

> I'm wondering why noone has nominated Batman Returns?
> 
> buzzard




I did abstractly.  I thought it was unwatchably bad.

How about these stinkers

Raiders - Temple of Dumb,  oops Doom

Ghostbusters II

Porky's Revenge

Iron Eagle II

A very Brady Sequal


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## Chain Lightning (Sep 8, 2003)

For those of you blaming Joel Schumacher for the poor quality of the Batman sequels he worked on, please don't forget that the director isn't the sole person responsible for how a movie gets made.

The director still has to take orders and approve everything by the Producers too. So, you can Schumacher (yes! without a doubt!), but please spread the blame around a bit and also blame the Producers as well. 

Which were - - -

Batman Forever: Tim Burton , Peter MacGregor-Scott
Batman and Robin: Peter MacGregor-Scott


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## LuYangShih (Sep 8, 2003)

I really enjoyed The Phantom Menace.  I think it is a great movie.  On the other hand, Attack Of The Clones really failed to impress me.  The "romance" scenes were the suck, and they turned Darth Vader into a whiny teenage brat.  However, I have to say the worst sequel I have personally seen was Star Trek:  Insurrection.  A waste of time in every way.


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## Liquid Snake (Sep 8, 2003)

Alien Resurrection sucked soooooo much. And so did Batman Forever and Batman & Robin.

I've never seen the Highlander series, but I've heard the dark legend.

The Phantom Menace, even if it was a prequel. Jar Jar *shivers* and the mydichlorians *shivers* have permanently scarred my mind. Why George Lucas?! Why have you forsaken us?!

Someone already has made the warning of the D&D movie sequel, can it be as bad as the first one?


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## Michael Tree (Sep 8, 2003)

I'm amazed that no one has mentioned the Star Wars Holiday Special.  Of course, to quote Carrie Fisher "We made no holiday special."

You know a movie's bad when the _cast_ denies it's existence, not just the fans.


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## Liquid Snake (Sep 8, 2003)

Damn connection lags.

EDIT: Double Post


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## Michael Tree (Sep 8, 2003)

Move along, nothing to see here...

Edit: double post


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## KnowTheToe (Sep 8, 2003)

Liquid Snake said:
			
		

> Someone already has made the warning of the D&D movie sequel, can it be as bad as the first one?




Not unless they do a spoof of the first one.


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## Storminator (Sep 8, 2003)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> I was not going to say anything, but now I have given in to temptation. I just have to brag that I am one of the rare people who have listened to the warnings. I liked Highlander, was warned to avoid the sequels, and have done so.
> 
> So for those of you going to the effort to warn people about Highlander 2, and thinking "If I can just save one person, it will be worth it", keep up the good work. You saved me. Thanks.




I too dodged that bullet. My buddy told me that H II was so bad it made the first movie worse, so I avoided it like the plague.

PS


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## Rashak Mani (Sep 8, 2003)

There can only be one !  Highlander 2 sucked so so so badly.... I refused to see the abberations that followed. Highlander 1 is my favorite movie to make things worse... it really hurt to see Sean Connery in that joke of a film...


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## FraserRonald (Sep 9, 2003)

Tratyn Runewind said:
			
		

> Hello,
> 
> Regarding the _Highlander 2_ question:  I'm pretty sure there was a re-edited "Renegade Version" that came out on video.  It was supposed to be much closer to the creators' original intention than the...thing...that showed up in theaters wearing the H2 name.  Among other things, it supposedly eliminated any reference to the immortals being some sort of alien race.  Though not explicitly stated anywhere as far as I know, I've heard that this is also the version supposedly taken as canon for purposes of the TV series.  Has anyone around here seen this version?  How much of an improvement is it?  (I'm going on the theory that pretty much any change would be for the better.)




Actually, I took one for the team, thinking that maybe there was hope. There is none. Check out my review at:

http://www.swordsedge.net/Issue15/ReviewRenegadeVersion.html

Or, if you don't have that kind of time on your hands, my review encapsulated is:

Sucks @$$

Definitely the worst sequel ever.


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## Klaatu B. Nikto (Sep 9, 2003)

I can think of a few that haven't been mentioned. The originals are probably close to cult movies.

Black Mask 2: City of Masks - A sequel to the Jet Li movie but this one has a newcomer (Andy On) as the lead character but also had Traci Lords and at least 2 professional wrestlers: Tyler Mane aka X-Men's Sabretooth and Rob... Van... Dam... (makes more sense if you do the thumb bit he does). Wire fu! Supersoldiers! Professional wrestlers! Human - animal hybrids! A DNA bomb! Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! Ok, that's from Ghostbusters.

Iron Monkey 2 - The first one involved a doctor dressing up as a masked vigilante to right wrongs and other do gooder stuff. This one um... I'm not quite sure. I'd say its worthy of Saturday Afternoon Kung Fu Theatre or MST3k but not much else.

The various knockoffs once Bruce Lee and Jackie Chan became successful and used stock footage from their other movies to make 'new' ones. You know, the movies starring Bruce Li or Bruce Le, etc. and I think Fearless Hyena 2 was one of Jackie's knockoffs.


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## Villano (Sep 9, 2003)

Klaatu B. Nikto said:
			
		

> I can think of a few that haven't been mentioned. The originals are probably close to cult movies.
> 
> Black Mask 2: City of Masks - A sequel to the Jet Li movie but this one has a newcomer (Andy On) as the lead character but also had Traci Lords and at least 2 professional wrestlers: Tyler Mane aka X-Men's Sabretooth and Rob... Van... Dam... (makes more sense if you do the thumb bit he does). Wire fu! Supersoldiers! Professional wrestlers! Human - animal hybrids! A DNA bomb! Dogs and cats living together, mass hysteria! Ok, that's from Ghostbusters.
> 
> ...





Argh!  Black Mask 2!  I totally forgot about that one.  Make the pain stop!

I actually have Iron Monkey 2 on tape (free cable weekend), but haven't gotten around to watching it, yet.  I guess it may not be worth it.

I personally like Bruce Li, but I agree that the sequels to Lee's films were, er, not so good.  All the Fist of Fury, Game of Death, and Chinese Connection sequels did indeed suck.

And Fearless Hyena 2?  Man, stock footage theatre!  It's Jackie's own Game Of Death.


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## Tratyn Runewind (Sep 9, 2003)

Hi again, 

Thanks, FraserRonald.  The sacrifice is appreciated - about two hours of your life you'll never get back, whatever it cost to borrow the video, and the potential therapy sessions truly bad movies can cause...

I'd hoped they'd be able to do something decent with it, but when all you can do is edit existing footage, I suppose your options are pretty limited.

Anyway, thanks again!


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Sep 9, 2003)

Silver Moon said:
			
		

> My kids (now ages 5, 8 & 10) have not seen any of the Star Wars films.  I have all five on tape, and my plan is to let them watch them in order I. to VI.    We'll view the first two just prior to III.'s release to the theatres, see it there, then IV. to VI. afterwards.   Sure, the prequel isn't as good, but that's fine in this case as they will just be moving on to something better.



I'll warn you now.  The 10 year old is about a 50-50 to agree with you, but I'll bet you dollars to donuts the younger kids will prefer the new ones.  I've only known one kid under 12 who prefers the OT.


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## billd91 (Sep 9, 2003)

KenM said:
			
		

> Remember, they are working on a DnD movie sequel..............




Please, tell me this is a joke. I'm begging you.
I spent $1 to rent the D&D movie on DVD, and grossly overpaid because, while $1 isn't much, I'll NEVER get the time back I wasted watching it.


----------



## billd91 (Sep 9, 2003)

VorpalBunny said:
			
		

> *Licence to Kill* Good Bond actor, worst Bond movie. Ever.




So some people don't like License to Kill or The World is Not Enough. But I have a hard time thinking any Bond movies can be worse than Moonraker and View to a Kill.
I also hated GoldenEye. What a waste of Sean Bean. Famke Jansen was entertaining but just about every other minute of that movie was an ordeal to endure.


----------



## dagger (Sep 9, 2003)

ESCAPE FROM LA     (KURT RUSSELL ON A SURF BOARD....nuff said)


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## Farganger (Sep 9, 2003)

dagger said:
			
		

> ESCAPE FROM LA     (KURT RUSSELL ON A SURF BOARD....nuff said)




You beat me to it - I read through the entire thread with building anticipation that I could be the first to mention this.

I have soft spot for Escape from New York, and my disappointment at this "sequel" (in many ways a more expensive remake) knew no bounds.

Kurt Russell on a surf board was *far* from the worst thing about this film, and I think that says a lot.


----------



## Brother Shatterstone (Sep 9, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> I won't start an argument about comparing the trilogies. I just don't find the Prequels to be as bad as some people say they are. Look at the OT, and you'll see they aren't the greatest things in the world. We're the ones who've aged, not the movies. That's where most of the problems lie.




I'm not looking for an argument either but I don't think it’s the age of the watcher that effect things...  I mean I still love and watch the original trilogy and I’ve ages a lot since I first saw them in the theater, or at least _Return of the Jedi_.  The issue is that Lucas is aged and that he’s lost the “flow” of the story.  I would have loved to have seen what could have been if he had penned the whole story long ago and just left it for later instead of not just rough drafting it and coming back and writing the rest of it 2 decades later.  The “natural flow” is gone and everything fills hodgepodge together.  All that said the prequals aren't the worst movies ever made, but their probably the most disappointing ever.



Oh yeah and Highlander 2 is by far the worst sequel movie ever made, and maybe the worst movie of all time, but to add something new.

Jurassic Park 2


----------



## Villano (Sep 9, 2003)

billd91 said:
			
		

> So some people don't like License to Kill or The World is Not Enough. But I have a hard time thinking any Bond movies can be worse than Moonraker and View to a Kill.




Actually, I really like License To Kill for the simple reason that it's the only Bond film in which he is actually a spy.  He's undercover for nearly the entire film and plays the bad guys against each other.  In most films, Bond either stupidly blows his cover immediately or everyone knows he's James Bond already.

But The World Is Not Enough is actually much, much worse than Moonraker or View To A Kill.  It's brain cell killing bad.  Denise Richards makes you long for Tanya Roberts.  

It's an evil, evil film.

Die Another Day was pretty bad, too, but looks like Citizen Kane considering what it followed.  Brosnan said his next Bond will be his last, and I'm hoping it is.  He started off as the 2nd best Bond after Connery, but now, IMHO, he sits at the bottom, below even Moore.


----------



## dagger (Sep 9, 2003)

Yea I really like Escape from New York in my younger days....me and my buddy were both MASSIVLY dispointed in this movie. One of the few movies I have actually walked out of (I did manage to see the rest of it at a later date). I can usually sit threw anything...


----------



## VorpalBunny (Sep 9, 2003)

billd91 said:
			
		

> So some people don't like License to Kill or The World is Not Enough. But I have a hard time thinking any Bond movies can be worse than Moonraker and View to a Kill.
> I also hated GoldenEye. What a waste of Sean Bean. Famke Jansen was entertaining but just about every other minute of that movie was an ordeal to endure.




Yeah, *Moonraker* was pretty bad, but it was tongue-in-cheek enough to get a few smiles when I saw it.  *View to a Kill* wasn't that bad - it could've been better with a younger actor playing Bond, IMO. 

*GoldenEye* is one of my favorite Bond movies.  I thought Sean Bean was great, as was the addition Judy Dench as "M".  The scene in which she calls Bond a "misogynistic dinosaur of a bygone era" is a classic.

Of course, YMMV


----------



## buzzard (Sep 9, 2003)

You know, I really am pleased that I had managed to forget about Escape from LA. 

Though I just thought another wretched remake- Darkman 2 (or 3). Now those were really bad. The first movie was no prize, but dear glub those sequels really stank up the place.  

Though if we're busting on Bond films (sequels I suppose they could be considered), how can anyone miss Never Say Never Again. That movie looked to be a deliberate effort by Connery to kill the franchise by making the worst movie ever. It was a horrendous re-make of Thunderball. I can recall nothing positive gained from sitting through that one. 

buzzard


----------



## Viking Bastard (Sep 9, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> He started off as the 2nd best Bond after Connery, but now, IMHO, he sits at the bottom, below even Moore.



I'd say he's still the second best Bond. In fact, the only (possibly) 
redeeming feature of the movie was Brosnan (along with his ultrakewl 
stonecold line "I never miss."). Brosnan's great. 

DAD was going so well for half the movie. I was giddy with excitement 
(I'm a big Bond fanboy) and then they went to Iceland and the movie 
turned into Charlie's Angels. I freaked out. Literally. I was just angry. To 
have my little loveable country linked to this travestry. 

*SOB*

I'm getting over it, slowly, but it has taken a lot of drugs and group therapy.


----------



## Villano (Sep 9, 2003)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> I'd say he's still the second best Bond. In fact, the only (possibly)
> redeeming feature of the movie was Brosnan (along with his ultrakewl
> stonecold line "I never miss."). Brosnan's great.
> 
> ...




LOL.  Charlie's Angels!  That didn't even occur to me, but you're right.

I personally love how, when he was in the jet car, going 100 mph, trying to outrun the laser, the beam is about 10 ft behind him.  But then when he stops at the ravine, the beam is now 100 ft away and going all of 2 mph. 

The only good part about the movie is the death of the villain.  Too bad it was wasted in a terrible film.

Of course, the movie features the worst Bond theme ever and a cameo by its singer, Madonna.  The minute she appears onscreen, the film screeches to a halt.  You have A-level actors and then, dropping into the middle of it, someone who's at the level of a 9th grader performing in her first school play.

And the next film, Mariah Carey is supposed to sing the theme and have a part!  Argh!  

BTW, the reason that I consider Brosnan worse than Dalton and Moore is that 1.) he's a big enough star to turn a film down, 2.) he wanted to quit after Tomorrow Never Dies but came back to make The World Is Not Enough (which means he must have liked the script), and 3.) he keeps pushing to add more "drama" to Bond and "update" him.

Basically, Brosnan wants the lovestory drek in TWINE and XXX-like action in DAD.  But, simply put, that's not Bond.  Bond does what it does well.  When you try altering that formula, well, you end up with the last 2 films.


----------



## Klaatu B. Nikto (Sep 10, 2003)

Ok, maybe I'm backpedaling a bit but Black Mask 2 did have some semi decent fight scenes. However, they went WAY overboard with the rubber monster costumes and CGI.

As for Iron Monkey 2, keep fast forwarding til you get to a fight scene and when its over, repeat for the next one.   IIRC, the last one was pretty good.

The worst Bond film? Casino Royale with and by Woody Allen but it's not a sequel so it could be disqualified. 

I'd have to say A View to a Kill. Christopher Walken was wasted as a villain and it had Grace 'She's a MAN BABY!' Jones to boot. 

I can't really say which Bond movie is worse because I kinda like the whole series tho it's gone downhill lately. Bond movies are just an excuse to do an even better stunt than before like the 'loopty loop' jump over a river (Man With the Golden Gun), the 18 wheeler on 9 wheels (License to Kill) or the boat across land stunt (Live and Let Die I think), which is also in Guiness IIRC. 

Back to bad sequels:
Friday the 13th: Jason Takes Manhatten, where most of the movie takes place on a boat.

Halloween 3, which doesn't have Michael Myers but some weird Halloween mask conspiracy.


----------



## blackshirt5 (Sep 10, 2003)

Mark Chance said:
			
		

> Exorcist 2. Definitely Exorcist 2.
> 
> Sequels like Speed 2, the follow up to Mortal Kombat, et cetera, don't count because the predecessors weren't worth the effort either.




Exorcist 2 at least had the advantage of a hot teenaged Linda Blair in it.

I don't know what this Highlander 2 crap you people are talking about is.


----------



## TiQuinn (Sep 10, 2003)

Let's see...

Beverly Hills Cop 2 and 3
Rambo, First Blood Part 2 and Rambo 3
Conan the Destroyer
Next Friday, Friday after Next
Another 48 Hours
Creepshow 2


----------



## FraserRonald (Sep 10, 2003)

Tratyn Runewind said:
			
		

> Hi again,
> 
> Thanks, FraserRonald.  The sacrifice is appreciated - about two hours of your life you'll never get back, whatever it cost to borrow the video, and the potential therapy sessions truly bad movies can cause...




The pain lessens as the days go by and the memory fades.

I did borrow it from the library so I'm not out money.



> I'd hoped they'd be able to do something decent with it, but when all you can do is edit existing footage, I suppose your options are pretty limited.
> 
> Anyway, thanks again!




No worries. In all honesty, watching the train-wreck that is a movie/TV movie/straight-to-video/whatever called _Netforce_ (reviewed in the same issue) made my pure, unadulterated hatred of The-Quickening/Renegade-movie-that-claims-link-to-Highlander lessen . . . for about five minutes!

Edit: One borrows from a library, one does not rent. Perhaps my recovery isn't complete!


----------



## Klaatu B. Nikto (Sep 10, 2003)

buzzard said:
			
		

> Though if we're busting on Bond films (sequels I suppose they could be considered), how can anyone miss Never Say Never Again. That movie looked to be a deliberate effort by Connery to kill the franchise by making the worst movie ever. It was a horrendous re-make of Thunderball. I can recall nothing positive gained from sitting through that one.




The remake was the result of a court case over who owned the Bond franchise. MGM still owns it but the writer/producer of Thunderball was granted sequel rights to Thunderball. Thus Never Say Never Again. 

You'd have to dig to find the original ruling but I found an E! news article from 1998 about 'round 2'. Oh, the other studio hoping to start its own James Bond franchise is Sony.

http://www.eonline.com/News/Items/0,1,3951,00.html


----------



## Welverin (Sep 10, 2003)

Mark Chance said:
			
		

> [Sequels like Speed 2, the follow up to Mortal Kombat, et cetera, don't count because the predecessors weren't worth the effort either.




But it's all about how bad the sequel is the quality compared to what it's a sequel to isn't important, just how bad it is.



			
				Kai Lord said:
			
		

> Too bad, this year's Phone Booth was awesome.




Yep, but it's the principle of the matter, and occasionally such things will happen (I also refuse to buy any games from EA, the bastards).


----------



## billd91 (Sep 10, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> Die Another Day was pretty bad, too, but looks like Citizen Kane considering what it followed.  Brosnan said his next Bond will be his last, and I'm hoping it is.  He started off as the 2nd best Bond after Connery, but now, IMHO, he sits at the bottom, below even Moore.




I agree that Connery is the best Bond, especially in Goldfinger. Now THAT'S a Bond picture! But I have two minds about Roger Moore. In his first couple Bond films, I thought he was very good. It was in the last ones, starting with Moonraker, that I think he was awful. I might be willing to give him a pass on For Your Eyes Only, but definitely not Octopussy or View to a Kill.

BTW, I know guys who were big fans of Highlander (we watched it a lot, along with Akira, in our dorm TV lounge) who came out of the theater crying when they saw Highlander 2. By the time they returned to the dorms, they had sufficiently regained their composer to vehemently denied having seen Highlander 2.
It's the kind of situation in which a DM has a TPK that really disturbs his players and then backpedals and says, "OK, it was all a dream..." Or like when BA says "It's OK, it never happened" when Bob's character had a Deliverance moment while playing with Nitro.


----------



## Ashrem Bayle (Sep 10, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> Hehehe.  The fact that a large number of Highlander fans refuse to aknowledge that Highlander 2 even exists is a testament to it's suckiness.




How about the fact that the other Highlander MOVIES refuse to acknowledge it exists?


----------



## dagger (Sep 10, 2003)

The latest bond movie was my favorite , haha.


----------



## Rackhir (Sep 10, 2003)

I have to throw in yet another vote for Highlander 2. The movie is so monumentally bad, that I think it should be taught in film school as a text book example of how NOT to make a movie. It was so totally incoherent that they literally contradict themselves from one sentance to the next. It makes so little sense that you can tell the actors don't understand what's supposed to be going on. etc... rinse and repeat.

There are many bad movies or perhaps more accurately many stupid movies (Ie. Batman sequels), but only Highlander 2 has such a deep and broad depth of absolute suckieness.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 10, 2003)

My feelings on Bond, there are no bad Bond movies, just weak ones.  

I do feel Bond films may be in danger, they were always a way to be noticed but now it is a fad to be in a Bond movie and stars will do anything to have that 5 minute shot!  Don't get me wrong, Bond has always had some ads in it, now it is moving to marketing people!

Oh, I enjoyed the last one!


----------



## KnowTheToe (Sep 10, 2003)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> My feelings on Bond, there are no bad Bond movies, just weak ones.
> 
> I do feel Bond films may be in danger, they were always a way to be noticed but now it is a fad to be in a Bond movie and stars will do anything to have that 5 minute shot!  Don't get me wrong, Bond has always had some ads in it, now it is moving to marketing people!
> 
> Oh, I enjoyed the last one!




I think they are having a hard time keeping Bond's identity while still trying to keep the movies fresh.  In the last few movies there was little differentiating Bond from any other run of the mill action hero.


----------



## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Sep 10, 2003)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> I think they are having a hard time keeping Bond's identity while still trying to keep the movies fresh.  In the last few movies there was little differentiating Bond from any other run of the mill action hero.



Well, there's two reasons for that which have nothing to do with "freshness."

First, most action heroes in movies over the last 20 years have been skewing to duplicate Bond.  Second, what was really unique about Bond in the first place?  Not that much, really.

1) Neat gadgets.  Now ubiquitous not only in movies but in real life.  

2) He had a lot of sex and a demonstrable lack of respect for women.  Technically, they could continue to do this, but it's more or less universally regarded as poor taste nowadays, to say the least.  

Don't get me wrong.  I like old Bond movies, but they are a product of a bygone time.  The gadgets don't have the punch they used to, and women are regarded as fully functional human beings nowadays instead of just window-dressing.  The inherent misogyny of Bond has to be downgraded not just for the audience, but to better reflect reality.  Heck, I would have made the case for that 20 years ago if I'd had the means to articulate it.  Before puberty kicked in, I used to wonder why Bond always wanted to hang around girls that were either useless or outright problematic.  Then I hit puberty and understood him completely.  Then I grew up and began to wonder again why any human being would waste so much time and energy on partners who weren't in any way, shape, or form his equal.  It's easy to imagine his life as incredibly unfulfilling.

Anyway, before I ramble further about the psychology of Bond, suffice it to say that what it boils down to is that old school Bond movies just really don't play well nowadays.  Some college students I know have gone so far as to call them "archaic."


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 10, 2003)

The only "recent" Bond movie I've liked is Goldeneye. It wasn't in any way the best...but I did like it. Haven't liked any since. Its kind of sad really...but I can always go back and watch any of the old Connery Bond films and relive the fun for me.


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## Rackhir (Sep 10, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> The only "recent" Bond movie I've liked is Goldeneye. It wasn't in any way the best...but I did like it. Haven't liked any since. Its kind of sad really...but I can always go back and watch any of the old Connery Bond films and relive the fun for me.




I couldn't take Goldeneye after the begining when Bond rides a motor cycle off a cliff chasing the airplane and manages to catch it while it was in a power dive. I was just laughing too hard. I guess being a super spy means the laws of physics don't apply.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 10, 2003)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> I couldn't take Goldeneye after the begining when Bond rides a motor cycle off a cliff chasing the airplane and manages to catch it while it was in a power dive. I was just laughing too hard. I guess being a super spy means the laws of physics don't apply.




Those laws never applied to movies!


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Sep 10, 2003)

Actually, I think I liked the movie mainly because of the great N64 game...but still. As with most Bond movies, you REALLY have to suspend belief...its worse with the newer ones.


----------



## mojo1701 (Sep 11, 2003)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Actually, I think I liked the movie mainly because of the great N64 game...but still.




Yeah, that's the only reason why I rented the movie. 



> As with most Bond movies, you REALLY have to suspend belief...its worse with the newer ones.



Oh, yeah, I find that a lot.


----------



## Pants (Sep 11, 2003)

I always loved in the old Bond movies that whenever a car drove off a cliff it would burst into flames/explode BEFORE it hit the ground.  I always got a chuckle out of that


----------



## LoneWolf23 (Sep 11, 2003)

If you consider that a plane has more area (and thus wind-resistance) then a narrow Bond, then his ability to catch up to it in freefall, while still surprising, isn't -too- impossible.  At least that's how I see it.

And personally, I love the new Bond films as much as the old ones, because I understand that Connery-Bond isn't the same as Moore-Bond or Brosnan-Bond.  All three actors (and the lesser Bonds) put their own acting spins on the classic character.  Connery was cool, calm and cold-blooded in combat.  Moore was warm, charming and debonnaire, and was somewhat more light-hearted in the face of danger.  Brosnan is calm and cool, but more serious and direct.

Also, like Canis pointed out, each major Bond is a product of his times.  Connery was from the mid-60s, back when the Women's Liberation Movement was still in it's infancy, and women were still mostly considered sex-objects in the movies.  Then came Moore's Bond, a product of the 70s, when social changes were rampant; Bond Girls stopped being just sex objects and began contributing, like Octopussy.  Finally, Brosnan's Bond lives in a world where Connery-Bond's values are no longer true, and women are his equal.  I can't think of a single Brosnan Bond movie where the Bond Girl isn't either an expert in a certain field, or a spy like Bond himself.

Times change, and so do Bond films over time.


----------



## Villano (Sep 11, 2003)

LoneWolf23 said:
			
		

> Also, like Canis pointed out, each major Bond is a product of his times.  Connery was from the mid-60s, back when the Women's Liberation Movement was still in it's infancy, and women were still mostly considered sex-objects in the movies.  Then came Moore's Bond, a product of the 70s, when social changes were rampant; Bond Girls stopped being just sex objects and began contributing, like Octopussy.  Finally, Brosnan's Bond lives in a world where Connery-Bond's values are no longer true, and women are his equal.




In other words, Brosnan's Bond was neutered. 

I actually hated the whole "misogynist dinosaur" comments about Bond...especially since in that very movie, Bond would have a pretty good case of sexual harrassment against Moneypenny.  I hate this new Moneypenny.  While the old one had a playful flirting with Bond, the new one is, well, a pig.  

What's the female equivilant of "misogynist"?   



> I can't think of a single Brosnan Bond movie where the Bond Girl isn't either an expert in a certain field, or a spy like Bond himself.




How about Denise Richards, the world's most convincing nuclear scientist?  And Halley Berry was next to useless.

Well, you didn't say they had to be convincing...


----------



## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Sep 11, 2003)

Villano said:
			
		

> In other words, Brosnan's Bond was neutered.
> 
> I actually hated the whole "misogynist dinosaur" comments about Bond...especially since in that very movie, Bond would have a pretty good case of sexual harrassment against Moneypenny.  I hate this new Moneypenny.  While the old one had a playful flirting with Bond, the new one is, well, a pig.



She didn't strike me that way in the new ones I saw, but then, I haven't see the last two.  I *despise* Halle Berry, and Denise Richards only surpasses Halle as an actress by a very narrow margin, so I couldn't bring myself to watch them.

As for the original Moneypenny, I really didn't consider it a playful flirting thing.  It actually always struck me as kind of sad.


----------



## Villano (Sep 11, 2003)

Canis said:
			
		

> As for the original Moneypenny, I really didn't consider it a playful flirting thing.  It actually always struck me as kind of sad.





I agree, once she got older, it did.  But during the early movies, I liked the interaction.  IIRC, in one of the films, Bond even showed a little jealousy when she took interest in other men.

Truth is, the early Moneypenny is my favorite Bond Girl.


----------



## Eldorian (Sep 11, 2003)

I can't believe no one as mentioned the sequals to The Crow.  That is one of my favorite movies and pretty much defined the "gothic punk" setting of the white wolf games.  The sequals were so mind numbingly bad, cause they didn't have Brandon Lee, that I couldn't even watch them in their entirety.

Eldorian Antar


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## S'mon (Sep 11, 2003)

I agree with everyone that Highlander 2 was of course the worst sequel ever (in terms of both utterly trashing the original and being appallingly bad).  The sequel that left me most gutted and angry though was Alien-3; as a sequel to Aliens.  While not as bad as Highlander-2 at all levels, Alien-3 destroyed the previous movie at a much more visceral level.

Re Bond films; I find the current Pierce Brosnan ones unwatchable, they're just regular postmodern action movies with a few Bondish tropes.  I'd quite like to see a Bond film as a period piece set in 1952 (say), where the post-WW2 protagonist's attitudes actually fit.


----------



## JediSoth (Sep 11, 2003)

Worst sequels, hmmmm. Ok here's my picks:

_Moonraker_
_Star Trek V_
_Superman III & IV_

The most disappointing sequel, though I enjoyed it was:

_The Matrix Reloaded_. I hated that I didn't walk out of the theater with that WOW feeling I had after I saw _The Matrix_ for the first time.

JediSoth


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## tetsujin28 (Sep 12, 2003)

Alien 3 is a great movie. Matix Reloaded is a massive disappointment. All of the Crow sequels suck, but I wasn't impressed with the first one. I've never been able to understand why people have such a jones for the first Highlander movie...I thought it was awful. The second one, whilst incomprehensible, was kind of funny. If you want bad sequels, I'd have to go for the Jaws movies. The  original is a classic, the sequels mediocrity defined. And no-one's mentioned Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom?


----------



## LuYangShih (Sep 12, 2003)

The Temple Of Doom _was_ mentioned, I think, but many people may rule it out since it is technically a prequel.  Considering the star of the first Crow movie, Brandon Lee, died during the filming, it is not surprising the sequels were not as good.


----------



## Plane Sailing (Sep 13, 2003)

I hate sequels which rip up and throw away things that you know from previous films with no good reason.

My top offenders:

Highlander 2 (I saved a Highlander 1 fan from this, I felt great about that) Changed every basis for the film

Alien3 - simply wiped out major characters from Aliens without any thought. A pointless sequel that missed so much opportunity.

Karate Kid 3 - after the relationship which built in 2 (kid and master, kid and girl) that was unbelievably thrown away. 

(I doubt if anyone will agree with me on this last one)

Terminator 2 - The first film was perfect, especially it's ending and the recursive nature of Biehn being the boys father etc. The second film introduces the T-2000 which is too incredibly advanced to be believed, the humans sent an Arnie back to protect this time (why didn't they send an arnie back last time? Didn't Biehn say they planned to blow the time transmitter after he was sent through). I feel that they wanted to do a sequel and include lots of cool effects but Arnie wanted to be a hero now and they needed to make it different. But for me it runs roughshod over the entire plot and backstory of the first one.

P.S. Of all the bond films I really liked "The world is not enough"; primarily where it is the first example I can recall of Bond actually killing someone in cold blood (and the second time in the film when he could have done it). I hated tomorrow never dies (the helicopter blades scene! the "stealth" boat!) and any bond film with "Jaws" in it. I recognise those are just personal taste issues of course.

Cheers


----------



## LuYangShih (Sep 13, 2003)

Karate Kid 3.  Damn, I had blocked that out of my mind.  Not as bad as Insurrection, but it really did destroy any semblance of continuity between the previous films.  It also managed to lose most of the charm the second film had.


----------



## Someone (Sep 13, 2003)

I´m surprised no one mentioned the brain-numbing American ninja and Direstalker series.


----------



## Rackhir (Sep 13, 2003)

Someone said:
			
		

> I´m surprised no one mentioned the brain-numbing American ninja and Direstalker series.




I'm not sure they really count since they were ALL so bad, but only in a kind of bland generic stupid kind of way. I guess if someone is just trying to shove out a film to make some money it's not quite the same level of awfulness that can only be achieved when someone was trying to make a good movie or what ever it was some people were trying to do.


----------



## Hackenslash (Sep 13, 2003)

*The Worst Ever, Ever.....*

My vote for worst sequels ever are as follows:

1st: Highlander 4-End Game - How Pants was this movie ? Should be used as a sample for movie students on how NOT to make a movie. Poor Acting and Very bad plot line. Just Terrible. Worse than Highlander 2.
2nd: The 2nd Crow Movie:City of Angels - a tragedy to the memory of Brandon Lee.
3rd: Star Trek: Nemesis - Way too Predictable and Old Hat, not even worthy of a double episode.
4th: Jeepers Creepers 2 - Drowned in extremely poor acting and crappy dialogue, lost the mystique and originality of the Creeper in the first movie. And what was up with that Pathetic Truck Harpoon Cannon Thingy ? Pleeease.....!!!!This actually deserves a Dennis Miller type Rant !!! 
5th: Jaws 3 - Just awfull !!! Way too Bubbly and Cheesy. No Suspense and not thrilling at all, unlike the 1st Jaws, which caused Millions of people all over the world to look over their shoulder and pretend to not be scared, when swimming in the sea.

There are a lot of very poor sequals, but way too many to list here, these are just the ones that stick in my mind. Cheers All


----------



## Dark Jezter (Sep 13, 2003)

I can't believe I forgot to mention Alien 3 in my original post. Alien and Aliens were fantastic, but Alien 3 was just awful.  What happened?

Alien: Resurrection is actually fun to watch in a silly way.  It feels like a live-action video game.  It's also very MSTable if you have friends to watch it with.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Sep 13, 2003)

I've never understood what people found wrong with Alien: Resurrection.
I saw it again the other day for the first time since I saw it in theatres 
and I kinda expected it to suck (I mean, everybody seems to hate it, I
just reckoned I was awed by the FX or something when I saw it on the
big screen). But no, still brilliant. Second best in the series.


----------



## Villano (Sep 13, 2003)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> I've never understood what people found wrong with Alien: Resurrection.
> I saw it again the other day for the first time since I saw it in theatres
> and I kinda expected it to suck (I mean, everybody seems to hate it, I
> just reckoned I was awed by the FX or something when I saw it on the
> big screen). But no, still brilliant. Second best in the series.





I like it except for that terrible, unscary hybrid alien and the ending, which we saw in 2 other films.  Sheesh, isn't there any other way to kill the things?


----------



## Viking Bastard (Sep 13, 2003)

Heck, those are the things that are keeping it as 2nd best for me. Hate it
 when good movies have kinda lackluster endings. One thing that bugged
 me is that the ending kinda implied that the next movie would take place 
on Earth but it doesn't seem to happening.


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## jdavis (Sep 14, 2003)

There are a lot of ways to judge a bad sequel. Did it make money, was it generally disliked, did people claw their eyes out and run screamming from the theater? I think you can throw out sequels of crappy movies, it's crappy sequels of good movies that are bothersome (if the first movie was bad you expect the second to be bad too). Personal taste obviously has a lot to do with it too (I like Temple of Doom and hate Last Crusade for instance).

I'm probably dating myself but I'd have to vote for Smokey and the Bandit 3 "Smokey is the Bandit". It's 29 on the IMDB worst movies list: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0086325/ 
Granted Smokey and the Bandit 2 was horrible but the third one takes bad to a whole new level.

Mortal Kombat Annihilation also holds a hated place in my heart, my friends went to see it the day before I went to see it, they told me it was pretty good. They were waiting for me when the movie got out so they could laugh at me, I didn't find it that funny myself. What a crappy movie experience that was, it was so bad it wasn't even worth laughing at, it was just sad. (by the way Mortal Kombat 3 is in production: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0293429/  )

Highlander 2 deserves the recognition it is getting in this thread too. Man I'm glad it doesn't exist. If you had made a movie called Highlander 2 then changing "Planet Ziest" to "A long time ago" does not make for a improved _Renegade_ version, it's the same crap.


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## Someone (Sep 14, 2003)

Rackhir said:
			
		

> I'm not sure they really count since they were ALL so bad, but only in a kind of bland generic stupid kind of way. I guess if someone is just trying to shove out a film to make some money it's not quite the same level of awfulness that can only be achieved when someone was trying to make a good movie or what ever it was some people were trying to do.




Well, you are going to stone me, but the first american ninja film was even watchable (or was when I was a kid). The sequels, I agree, were made with the "why making an effort to do anything but crap, martial arts fans are stupid anyway and will eat it with gusto".

I never watched anything of Direstalker, but I heard that it´s a good way to commit suicide.


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## Dark Jezter (Sep 14, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> I'm probably dating myself but I'd have to vote for Smokey and the Bandit 3 "Smokey is the Bandit". It's 29 on the IMDB worst movies list: http://us.imdb.com/title/tt0086325/
> Granted Smokey and the Bandit 2 was horrible but the third one takes bad to a whole new level.




This is a little off-topic, but I just looked at the IMDB Bottom 100 list, and I find it incredibly amusing that Gigli was ranked the absolute worst movie of all time by IMDB voters.

Never saw the movie myself, but from what I hear it was pure exploitive crap designed to show off J.Lo's body and Affleck's "talent."


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## Hackenslash (Sep 14, 2003)

*....That was a bit Harsh !*



			
				Someone said:
			
		

> .......were made with the "why making an effort to do anything but crap, martial arts fans are stupid anyway and will eat it with gusto"




I think that statement was a bit harsh towards Martial Arts Fans, claiming that they are "Stupid" is a very negative generalization and should really be kept to ones self, not put on a public board. Bet you wouldn't say that out load at your nearest Martial Arts Academy....Ouch !!!


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## Welverin (Sep 14, 2003)

jdavis said:
			
		

> Mortal Kombat Annihilation also holds a hated place in my heart, my friends went to see it the day before I went to see it, they told me it was pretty good. They were waiting for me when the movie got out so they could laugh at me, I didn't find it that funny myself.




Was that the last time you ever talked to any of them?

I still hold a grudge against the people who talking me into going to se it.


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 14, 2003)

Hackenslash said:
			
		

> I think that statement was a bit harsh towards Martial Arts Fans, claiming that they are "Stupid" is a very negative generalization and should really be kept to ones self, not put on a public board. Bet you wouldn't say that out load at your nearest Martial Arts Academy....Ouch !!!



You do realise he wasn't throwing that out there as his own personal opinion, right?


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## Someone (Sep 14, 2003)

Hackenslash said:
			
		

> I think that statement was a bit harsh towards Martial Arts Fans, claiming that they are "Stupid" is a very negative generalization and should really be kept to ones self, not put on a public board. Bet you wouldn't say that out load at your nearest Martial Arts Academy....Ouch !!!




I´m sorry. After the last quote in my last post should be the word "attitude"; I forgot to type it. However, I´ll maintain that the series I mention there are meant to martial arts fans that will eat it (with gusto) simply because in it people bash other people. I tend to think of that as rather stupid, if only because I fell in the trap sometimes and thought myself as a moron afterwards.


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## pogre (Sep 15, 2003)

*Cabin Boy*
OK - so it's not a sequel, but it must be mentioned anytime the words _worst film_ come up.

For a sequel I have to go with Caddy Shack II - I still have not forgiven Dan Ackroyd.


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## Dark Jezter (Sep 15, 2003)

pogre said:
			
		

> For a sequel I have to go with Caddy Shack II - I still have not forgiven Dan Ackroyd.




Caddyshack II was pretty much destined to fail.  The original Caddyshack was a classic, combining the comedic genius of Bill Murray, Chevy Chase, Ted Knight, and Rodney Dangerfield.  It's held up remarkably well over the years, and can still elicit laughter.

Caddyshack II came out nearly a decade after the original.  Gone were Ted Knight, Bill Murray, and (most importantly) Rodney Dangerfield.  Instead, they were replaced by Jackie Mason, Dan Ackroyd, and Randy Quaid, none of whom managed to give out their best performances.  It also suffered from a bad script that was a butchered clone of the original (In Caddyshack, Rodney Dangerfield played a wealthy Real Estate Owner whose boorish antics enraged the uptight members of Bushwood Country Club.  In Caddyshack II, Jackie Mason plays a wealthy Real Estate Owner whose boorish antics enraged the uptight members of Bushwood Country Club), and an attempt to make the movie more family friendly by making it PG instead of R.  What resulted was a sequel that had virtually nothing in common with its predecessor except for the title, Chevy Chase's character, and the fact that they were both set on a golf course.


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## Rackhir (Sep 15, 2003)

Dark Jezter said:
			
		

> It also suffered from a bad script that was a butchered clone of the original.




This is someting I've noticed about bad (though not necessarily horrible) sequels to great (or at least wildly popular) movies, like Ghostbusters 2, MIB II etc... Is a tendancy to essentially "reset" things back to the state they were at the start of the first movie only switching around one or two elements (J being the experienced agent and K being the rookie, Or the Ghostbusters being poor and obscure again). I think it's part of Hollywood's general timidity in wanting something "different, but not too different."


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## Hackenslash (Sep 15, 2003)

*No Worries !!!*



			
				Someone said:
			
		

> I´m sorry. After the last quote in my last post should be the word "attitude"; I forgot to type it. However, I´ll maintain that the series I mention there are meant to martial arts fans that will eat it (with gusto) simply because in it people bash other people. I tend to think of that as rather stupid, if only because I fell in the trap sometimes and thought myself as a moron afterwards.




It's ok, no harm done....just thought your comment was a bit OTT. But I do appreciate your point more now.

Cheers


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## diaglo (Sep 15, 2003)

The Two Towers...man did they abuse the novel to produce this crap.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Sep 15, 2003)

diaglo said:
			
		

> The Two Towers...man did they abuse the novel to produce this crap.



Yeah, how dare they humanize the characters.  And what's with that whole "making the story palatable in film form" thing?  (Or palatable period, for most people)  And how dare they give women a significant presence in the story.  Women are only useful as plot devices, not characters.    

But before I get off on that rant, I will point out that you're complaining about something you consider a bad _adaptation_ rather than a bad sequel in its own right.  So, technically, this is the wrong place for that gripe.


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## LuYangShih (Sep 15, 2003)

Actually, I would agree that The Two Towers movie was a horrible adaptation of the books.  Several overriding themes of the books were ignored, and the characterization issues are too many to list here.  That said, the movies themselves are alright action flicks, and certainly not among the worst movies of all time.


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