# Pathfinder: Kingmaker Is An Isometric RPG Experience



## Banesfinger (Sep 26, 2018)

Weren't they trying to make this a MMO (massive multiplayer online) game, several years ago?  Did that project die?


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

That was a different thing. Not sure what the status is on that.


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## GrissTheGnome (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> That was a different thing. Not sure what the status is on that.




This game is the result after a fashion, the mmo fell apart and the company went under. The license was snapped up and the new company made the Kingmaker RPG.


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## Doctor Futurity (Sep 26, 2018)

Very excited to play this!


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

I played a bit of it this morning. It really is the Baldur’s Gate/Neverwinter Nights experience. I’m loving it.


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## TerraDave (Sep 26, 2018)

So...how does it play?


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## smiteworks (Sep 26, 2018)

I'm only 6 hours in so far, but the game is extremely well done at this point. I'm a big fan of the Baldur's Gate series of games even though I much prefer turn-based to Real-time-with-pause (RTwP). It seems like they've somehow improved upon that here with the animations and auto-pause options lining up better than I remember them doing in BG. There are a few parts where it breaks out into a choose your own adventure style mini-game and all the character creation, leveling and equipment is perfectly by-the-book.

Pros:
- Closely resembles tabletop game with actual feats, spells, abilities, etc.
- Improved RTwP functionality
- Good graphics and sound
- Interesting companions so far with a fair amount of spoken dialog
- Nice writing. I can already see wanting to replay with different choices after just the first few hours, but after I finish my current playthrough
- Choose your own adventure mini-games
- Excellent way to handle group inventory
- Great camping implementation where you assign roles (hunting, guard duty, camouflaging the camp, cooking or guard duty) or assign special roles available to certain party members (sharpening weapons, polishing armor, summoning undead to help guard the camp)

Cons
- May be harder for non tabletop players
- Not turn-based (although their version of RTwP lessens this significantly)

As an example of how it would be considered hard, there is a part early on where you fight against swarms of something. The tabletop rules for swarms make them immune to pretty much anything other than area of effects. My party make-up ended up not having any of that sort of magic so I had to re-load an earlier save to pick up a ton of splash damage weapons. 

Just like in the tabletop game, if you build poorly optimized characters, they are going to suffer. You may need to fight defensively at times or decide whether or not you will really be effective with ranged weapons combats that start fairly close. The game defaults to starting you off at an easier mode. I moved mine to Normal mode and full damage but I did actually employ a few features to make the game a bit easier. 

I highly recommend turning on the following features (I don't remember the exact phrasing): 


Remove ability damage and other negative effects upon a full rest
Defeated party members recover with minimal health after any battle (essentially you only fail if everyone dies)


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## huntsfromshadow (Sep 26, 2018)

GrissTheGnome said:


> This game is the result after a fashion, the mmo fell apart and the company went under. The license was snapped up and the new company made the Kingmaker RPG.




Not actually correct.

Pathfinder Online is something different. When Goblinworks folded Paizo took over the project
and has continued development in a slow burn process. They actually had an update on it at GenCon 2018.

Pathfinder Online only had the license for an MMO.  Kingmaker is a different thing.


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

TerraDave said:


> So...how does it play?




Basically just like the Baldur's Gate games, but with better graphics and Pathfinder rules. At least so far.


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## Ath-kethin (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> Basically just like the Baldur's Gate games, but with better graphics and Pathfinder rules. At least so far.




"Just like the Balder's Gate" games" except single player only. Since two-player coop was my favorite aspect of the BG games, that's really a deal breaker for me. The closer I can get to having a video game feel like a tabletop experience, the happier I am.

Given the apparent adherence to Pathfinder rules and setup, the lack of coop is puzzling to me.


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

Ath-kethin said:


> "Just like the Balder's Gate" games" except single player only. Since two-player coop was my favorite aspect of the BG games, that's really a deal breaker for me. The closer I can get to having a video game feel like a tabletop experience, the happier I am.
> 
> Given the apparent adherence to Pathfinder rules and setup, the lack of coop is puzzling to me.




I didn’t even know Baldurs Gate could do that.


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## Ath-kethin (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I didn’t even know Baldurs Gate could do that.




I only ever played them on the PlayStation II, but both of the ones we had could be 2 player coop.


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## smiteworks (Sep 26, 2018)

Ath-kethin said:


> I only ever played them on the PlayStation II, but both of the ones we had could be 2 player coop.




Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance and Dark Alliance II for PS2 were completely different from the PC Baldur's Gate games in play style. Neither of them were ports of the PC game but instead were separate games set in the same area. If you've never played the PC Baldur's Gate games, you might want to check them out. There are newer enhanced versions available now that are updated versions of the originals.


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## MNblockhead (Sep 26, 2018)

I really do not look playing games on a PC, but this looks interesting enough to connect my PC to my TV, fire up my neglected Steam account and give it a shot. 

Does this game work with a game controller or do I have to use a keyboard to play it. If it requires a keyboard, I'll probably skip it, no matter how good it is, and hope it is eventually release for the Switch or X-Box.  Having to sit at a desk sucks all the fun out of a game for me.


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## GreyLord (Sep 26, 2018)

For someone who doesn't really care for Pathfinder but loved the Infinity Engine games, would you suggest this game.

Does the pathfinderiness overwhelm the BG/IWD/PS feel of the game or can a fan of those enjoy those even if they don't like how complicated the Pathfinder system is these days?


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## Burnside (Sep 26, 2018)

GreyLord said:


> For someone who doesn't really care for Pathfinder but loved the Infinity Engine games, would you suggest this game.
> 
> Does the pathfinderiness overwhelm the BG/IWD/PS feel of the game or can a fan of those enjoy those even if they don't like how complicated the Pathfinder system is these days?




I'm a huge fan of the Infinity Engine games and have never played Pathfinder. I played this for about three hours last night and was impressed. It feels like a cross between a late Infinity Engine game and the first Bioware Neverwinter Nights game (in a good way). It's fun and addictive. My initial impression is that it's a more enjoyable game than Pillars of Eternity II, but I say that hoping it will become less linear after the first few hours. 

I do think it would be a better game if the combat was turn-based.


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## TerraDave (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> Basically just like the Baldur's Gate games, but with better graphics and Pathfinder rules. At least so far.




Sounds good.


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## evildmguy (Sep 26, 2018)

In the fwiw area, I also agree with people who are saying how good it is.  After the opening, could be considered the tutorial, it's fairly open ended with how you travel.  I have already found places that become important later and going back something else happens!  That helps it feel dynamic to me.  

I have been impressed with the choices in dialog and the clear way they say how it sounds, in terms of alignment.  That is one of those things that previous games (like BG) almost had but seeing in effect like this?  Makes me wonder why we didn't have it before.  (Think of the prompts in the VtM:Bloodlines games where if you had certain abilities or skills, they highlight you will use them.)  

My issue is that it isn't turn based.  Playing the new BattleTech game from HBS, that showed how awesome a turn based game can be.  I think that 3E/PF shines best in the turn based game.  To me, that's makes it feel more like a tabletop game, where I can focus on the one character going, see what happens, and react to it.  Further, there are so many spells and options that have to be set up and I am not good at this without it being turned based.  

I am really impressed and enjoying the game!


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

Ath-kethin said:


> I only ever played them on the PlayStation II, but both of the ones we had could be 2 player coop.




I think you’re talking about an entirely different game. The Baldurs Gate PC games had you managing a party of adventurers.


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## Wrathamon (Sep 26, 2018)

is it just run around killing monsters and completing quests are is there actually some of the kingmaker kingdom building rules in the game?


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

Wrathamon said:


> is it just run around killing monsters and completing quests are is there actually some of the kingmaker kingdom building rules in the game?




I haven’t got that far yet, but it’s heavily implied  the latter features.


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## MNblockhead (Sep 26, 2018)

Regarding my questions on whether there is controller support, I found a post from one of the developers on the Steam forums:



> You're controlling and micro-managing a party of six characters with tons of skills, spells, items... at this point in time we don't even have the UI to support that sort of thing with a controller. We're gonna have to think of something in that regard when we start working on the console versions but right now that's really not a thing, sorry!




The good news here is that they are developing console versions. I think I'll sit back and wait until they release a console version.


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## Morrus (Sep 26, 2018)

I can’t imagine how you’d control a party of six with a console.


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## geomarshal (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I think you’re talking about an entirely different game. The Baldurs Gate PC games had you managing a party of adventurers.




The original PC games could be multiplayer.  Two of my friends played with me all the way through Throne of Bhaal.  The first slot is still the main character for storyline purposes.  You could have up to six players.  If you had less than six, you could still pick up NPCs up to the six slot limit.  We only used Imoen for the most part since we didn't have a thief.


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## GreyLord (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I can’t imagine how you’d control a party of six with a console.




Perhaps similar to how one controls a party in Pillars of Eternity and Divinity Original Sin on the Xbox I would suppose.  Those are some ideas on how one could do it.


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## MNblockhead (Sep 26, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I can’t imagine how you’d control a party of six with a console.




Well, they are working on it, so we'll find out.


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## Winghorn (Sep 26, 2018)

I spend a decent amount of time on it last night and this morning. I'm enjoying it for the most part, but I must admit that I'm getting _reeaaaalllllly _tempted to dial the combat difficulty down to 'easy' (that tree-bear thing can go suck a fireball). I've never been too hot on isometric CRPGs for some reason, and I wish that they'd just made things turn-based as I'm pretty sure that's what's actually running under the hood anyway.


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## Ath-kethin (Sep 27, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I think you’re talking about an entirely different game. The Baldurs Gate PC games had you managing a party of adventurers.




It's likely you are correct. I never played the PC game versions and had no idea they were different. 

I stand by my statement though. Doesn't sound like like my kid of game, sadly.


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## agrayday (Sep 27, 2018)

GrissTheGnome said:


> This game is the result after a fashion, the mmo fell apart and the company went under. The license was snapped up and the new company made the Kingmaker RPG.




sounds like a similar scenario with the current starfinder minis.... paizo just cant seem to work with the right 3rd party.....


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## Jay Verkuilen (Sep 27, 2018)

Ath-kethin said:


> "Just like the Balder's Gate" games" except single player only. Since two-player coop was my favorite aspect of the BG games, that's really a deal breaker for me. The closer I can get to having a video game feel like a tabletop experience, the happier I am.




Baldur's Gate, BG2, Icewind Dale, and IWD2 were all Infinity Engine games that were primarily single player CPRGs done in an isometric format for play on a PC. There are versions that have been ported to Mac now and they're available via Steam and GOG. BG2 had a coop mode though most people didn't use it that way and they were really designed for single player. You may be thinking of the Alliance games. I never played them, so I can't say.


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## Ath-kethin (Sep 27, 2018)

Jay Verkuilen said:


> Baldur's Gate, BG2, Icewind Dale, and IWD2 were all Infinity Engine games that were primarily single player CPRGs done in an isometric format for play on a PC. There are versions that have been ported to Mac now and they're available via Steam and GOG. BG2 had a coop mode though most people didn't use it that way and they were really designed for single player. You may be thinking of the Alliance games. I never played them, so I can't say.




I'm happy to stop beating this horse whenever, but this is the game i am talking about:

View attachment 101825



https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baldur's_Gate:_Dark_Alliance


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## cmad1977 (Sep 27, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I can’t imagine how you’d control a party of six with a console.




Xcom2. Make it turn based.


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## Jay Verkuilen (Sep 27, 2018)

Ath-kethin said:


> I'm happy to stop beating this horse whenever, but this is the game i am talking about:




Yeah, I realized someone else had replied later. About the only thing they shared was the name "Baldur's Gate."


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## Ath-kethin (Sep 27, 2018)

Jay Verkuilen said:


> Yeah, I realized someone else had replied later. About the only thing they shared was the name "Baldur's Gate."




To be clear: I wasn't singling you out as "beating a dead horse." But I am ready to stop my thread derailment.


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## TarionzCousin (Sep 27, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I can’t imagine how you’d control a party of six with a console.



Your main PC has a whip to keep the other five in line.


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## Dire Bare (Sep 27, 2018)

Ath-kethin said:


> To be clear: I wasn't singling you out as "beating a dead horse." But I am ready to stop my thread derailment.




I wouldn't worry about it, the confusion is natural. I loved the PC Baldur's Gate series, and I loved the console Dark Alliance games as well, but they are certainly very different styles of games. You might try picking up one of the classic games on Steam or GoG, they are fairly inexpensive and you might find them fun!


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## Mike Myler (Sep 27, 2018)

Despite several earnest attempts I've yet to embrace the _Baldur's Gate_ games (fourth and fifth tries made with the rereleased Advanced version) and have been happily waylaid by _Kingmaker_. So far (_because responsibilities _) I'm only just past the beginning arc and into the kingdom-play aspect. That said it's close enough to _Pathfinder_ to feel legit. 

A+, will play through more than once, _*definitely *_worth my $22 pledge.


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## Jhaelen (Sep 27, 2018)

Looks cool, however


> - Not turn-based (although their version of RTwP lessens this significantly)



is not what I'd prefer.

If the rest of the game is good I probably wouldn't mind, though.


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## Winghorn (Sep 27, 2018)

cmad1977 said:


> Xcom2. Make it turn based.




I would love this so very much.

Actually, I've always thought that a tweaked version of D&D 4E could make a great grid-based XCOM-style game.


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## Lefi2017 (Sep 27, 2018)

smiteworks;7500531
Cons
- May be harder for non tabletop players

[LIST said:
			
		

> [/LIST]



So How hard is it for people that have no colue about pathfinder 
I bought the came so I any chance to learn by playing the game with out screwing up to badly?


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## Morrus (Sep 27, 2018)

Lefi2017 said:


> So How hard is it for people that have no colue about pathfinder
> I bought the came so I any chance to learn by playing the game with out screwing up to badly?




It’s no harder to learn than any other new CRPG with its own system. Probably easier, because like D&D, Pathfinder has the d20 system as it’s kernel. Plus there are pregen options if you don’t want to make a character (though it guides you through that),


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## smiteworks (Sep 27, 2018)

Lefi2017 said:


> So How hard is it for people that have no colue about pathfinder
> I bought the came so I any chance to learn by playing the game with out screwing up to badly?




It doesn't explain any of the "why" when you do zero damage. For instance, it might say you do damage and that it is (reduced) to 0. For the most part, all the rolls and results are displayed in full details as a hover-over tooltip from the dice results window, but there are those exceptions.  Someone mentioned a fight with a bear like creature that was extremely difficult for my party when I encountered it. That creature has DR10, so a skilled tabletop player would know that it is useless to attack it with weapons that deal 1d8 damage. Another challenging area has you fighting swarms and there is one case where you encounter a demi-lich (floating head) with an AC 35, tons of immunities and great saves. In each case, I was able to re-load and plan a strategy to win or I was able to simply go away and come back at a higher level to defeat them. I have not gone back to defeat the demi-lich yet. Save often and don't be afraid to leave and area and return later.

The Pathfinder combat rules are derived from the D&D 3.5 rules, so you'll have some ideas but not the full idea. Damage Resistance (DR) is handled differently and there are Combat Maneuvers and Combat Defenses that manage whether or not you get tripped, grappled, bull rushed, etc. Some of the feats directly interact with that. The game doesn't include every feat and ability from Pathfinder but it has a ton. They are described in detail and they list the prerequisites, but someone unfamiliar with the RPG system might not realize that there is a feat combo-chain that builds in this order: Power Attack, Cleave, Great Cleave. There are tons of those examples. New players may want to stick with the pre-configured auto-leveling choices for characters to avoid picking useless or non-efficient combos. On the plus side, staying single class from 1 through 20 is very doable for pretty much all the classes.


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## smiteworks (Sep 27, 2018)

Winghorn said:


> I spend a decent amount of time on it last night and this morning. I'm enjoying it for the most part, but I must admit that I'm getting _reeaaaalllllly _tempted to dial the combat difficulty down to 'easy' (that tree-bear thing can go suck a fireball). I've never been too hot on isometric CRPGs for some reason, and I wish that they'd just made things turn-based as I'm pretty sure that's what's actually running under the hood anyway.




Here was my strategy that seemed to work:
[sblock]
I tried around 5 or 6 times when my party first got there. I think I was levels 2 & 3 and I came close once but mostly got slaughtered. I came back with a level 3 or 4 Amira and the Magus guy, buffed up and was able to take it down. It has DR10, so it took hitting it with a raging barbarian, shocking grasps and inflict wounds while Valerie and my main character tanked it. I used mirror-image, mage armor, shield, shield of faith and fight defensively on my fighter/wizard and shield of faith + tower shield + fight defensively on Valerie. It seems to randomize who it attacks, so having 2 of the 4 front-line fighters play pure defense it helped draw the fight out long enough to dish damage from my main damage dealers that could beat DR 10. The claw, claw, bite still hit with some frequency for pretty heavy damage.

I also have the option set where characters don't die and they return to combat after the fight. It fits more closely with the death saves feature in D&D 5E IMO and makes the game much less brutal.
[/sblock]


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## EthanSental (Sep 27, 2018)

I'm only 2 hours  or so in and enjoying it so far.  Only small quibble is the overly stylized first letters of people's name.   Some don't make a small much sense with all the extra designs...worst is the elven inquisitor Jaethal. Reminds me of certain dice manufacturers that put so much design into the dice face that you can't make out the numbers easily


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## Morrus (Sep 27, 2018)

One thing I never understand bout these games -- they have voice actors do all the NPCs, but when your character talks it's just text. I wonder why they don't have voice actors do that, too? You already have to select your character's voice during character creation.


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## Larrin (Sep 27, 2018)

Morrus said:


> One thing I never understand bout these games -- they have voice actors do all the NPCs, but when your character talks it's just text. I wonder why they don't have voice actors do that, too? You already have to select your character's voice during character creation.





I'd rather not have my character read their lines, especially if its branching dialogue.  I've already read the dialogue choice I want to make, I don't need to hear my character slowly drawl their way through a text I already read.  I would only skip it anyway. 

 The Mass Effect series(several of them if not all) did full dialogue for all the main character's responses.  It worked okay, but so often I would just skip it because I didn't need to here the whole line again. Then they did a thing where sometimes they'd just have a summary of the dialogue; you'd choose option that said "Doubt her" and your character would say a full sentence of two, thus removing the desire to skip the dialogue. That almost worked except that sometimes you'd see "doubt her" and you'd think "I'm going to politely disagree and we'll rationally discuss the truth" but what would really happen was you're character would call her a lying traitor and threaten her family.  It solved the skipping problem but replaced it with a lack of really knowing what would happen.

In the end I think most people would end up skipping full dialogue heroes in this sort of game, and thus the game companies know that whatever extra money would be spent on that voice work and such could be better spent elsewhere.


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## Mallus (Sep 27, 2018)

Is anyone playing Kingmaker on a Mac? I'm so tempted to add this to my backlog of games... I mean, play it. But it's a brand new release, so I assume there will be bugs and a lack of optimization. And optimizing for MacOS is usually last on the list. If it's on the list at all . 

For comparison, Pillars of Eternity, BGII, and Planescape: Torment run fine on my MacBook Pro. Civilization V causes my laptop to heat up to George Foreman Grill-levels, but several hundred hours of this hasn't had a negative impact so far as I can tell.


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## Morrus (Sep 27, 2018)

Mallus said:


> Is anyone playing Kingmaker on a Mac? I'm so tempted to add this to my backlog of games... I mean, play it. But it's a brand new release, so I assume there will be bugs and a lack of optimization. And optimizing for MacOS is usually last on the list. If it's on the list at all .
> 
> For comparison, Pillars of Eternity, BGII, and Planescape: Torment run fine on my MacBook Pro. Civilization V causes my laptop to heat up to George Foreman Grill-levels, but several hundred hours of this hasn't had a negative impact so far as I can tell.




I am. Had to turn the graphics down a bit but it works fine.


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## Mallus (Sep 27, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I am. Had to turn the graphics down a bit but it works fine.



Thanks!


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## Kor (Sep 28, 2018)

I have really enjoyed Pathfinder's lore and have been greatly looking forward to this game.  The reviews so far sounds really promising.  I had assumed that it was a turn-based game though.  Unfortunately, that's a deal breaker for me -- if I'm going to be controlling more than 1 character, then it needs to be turn-based.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 28, 2018)

2 things.

1. People still use Macs?
2.  Kingmaker is good?


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## jonesy (Sep 28, 2018)

Zardnaar said:


> 2 things.
> 
> 1. People still use Macs?
> 2.  Kingmaker is good?



1. Yes.
2. Yes.


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## jaycrockett (Sep 28, 2018)

Never could get into Infinity Engine style games, but I did really like the Kingmaker adventure path.  I'll be watching for a console version.  Local co-op would be amazing, but that's a hard ask these days.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 28, 2018)

jonesy said:


> 1. Yes.
> 2. Yes.




 Never really got the reason why people use macs except perhaps for "prestige" or to say you have got one. Been over priced and underpowered here for decades. Maybe in the days before windows 95 I can understand it. Kind of like an I phone, pay more money get a less functioning phone.


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## Mallus (Sep 28, 2018)

Zardnaar said:


> 1. People still use Macs?



Late 2013 rMBP. Best computer I've ever owned! 

I mean, it's terrible if you want to play things like shoot-y games, but I've got a PS4 for when I feel the need to unload a few clips into undead moon wizards...


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## Zhon (Sep 28, 2018)

Kor said:


> I have really enjoyed Pathfinder's lore and have been greatly looking forward to this game.  The reviews so far sounds really promising.  I had assumed that it was a turn-based game though.  Unfortunately, that's a deal breaker for me -- if I'm going to be controlling more than 1 character, then it needs to be turn-based.




Wait, it's not turn based?  I've only been loosely following the game.  I figured it would be something like Front Mission-style gameplay.  Something along the lines of Sword of the New World would also be pretty rad, but not sure how that would fair on a console.  I imagine it's going to be a lot of auto-pilot for inactive characters?  Kinda a bummer honestly.


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## Morrus (Sep 28, 2018)

Zhon said:


> Wait, it's not turn based?  I've only been loosely following the game. y.




No, it’s basically the same system as Baldur’a Gate and Neverwinter Nights.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 28, 2018)

What are the differences in the various options on the Steam bundles. Others have indicated they are waiting for a console version. I like Seam but often buy games I end up never playing so a console version might be better for me especially with my wife as a potential player. We both own Pillars of Eternity but have not played it although she has on the consoles. Comfy couch, 50' LED TV+ heat pump beats the options in the computer room.


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## Morrus (Sep 29, 2018)

Zardnaar said:


> Never really got the reason why people use macs except perhaps for "prestige" or to say you have got one. Been over priced and underpowered here for decades. Maybe in the days before windows 95 I can understand it. Kind of like an I phone, pay more money get a less functioning phone.




I’m sure you’ll like something one day. It’s gotta be tough.


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## Jay Verkuilen (Sep 29, 2018)

Winghorn said:


> I would love this so very much.
> 
> Actually, I've always thought that a tweaked version of D&D 4E could make a great grid-based XCOM-style game.




Pillars of Eternity isn't 4E but it kind of is. However, it's not exactly turn based, though you can set auto-pause pretty aggressively.


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## Jay Verkuilen (Sep 29, 2018)

Zardnaar said:


> Never really got the reason why people use macs except perhaps for "prestige" or to say you have got one. Been over priced and underpowered here for decades. Maybe in the days before windows 95 I can understand it. Kind of like an I phone, pay more money get a less functioning phone.




I am typing on one now. It's a 4 year old computer. It runs like a clock, still quite capable computationally, and maintaining it has been very simple. That's why I buy them, although next time I buy a compute I may get a Windows machine due to some software compatibility issues. I don't play graphics-heavy games on my computer, though.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 29, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I’m sure you’ll like something one day. It’s gotta be tough.




 It is. My dislike of Macs dates back to the 90's and we were gamers and/or computer nerds who liked programming them (I was not good at programming). 

 I liked Amigas and what became PC's, there were also things like Amstrads and Archimedes around. Had makes at school but everyone had Amiga or PCs at home. 

 They made a bit more sense to me before windows 95 came out and you had things like DOS or pre windows 3.1. Over here though Macs were expensive, underpowered, and all the good games were on things like Amiga and PC. Computers in the early 90's were about the same price they are now (not adjusted for inflation). Macs cost even more than that. I don't think I have actually even one since the late 90's come to think of it.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 29, 2018)

Jay Verkuilen said:


> I am typing on one now. It's a 4 year old computer. It runs like a clock, still quite capable computationally, and maintaining it has been very simple. That's why I buy them, although next time I buy a compute I may get a Windows machine due to some software compatibility issues. I don't play graphics-heavy games on my computer, though.




My PC iscoming up to 5 years old, never had a problem with it. Runs like a clock plays the games I like (mostly grand strategy) and was a bit of a monster at the time I got it. 

 I think Macs are basically PCs now, they used to be incompatible with everything, over priced, underpowered. Apple almost went under until that Ipod thing took off.


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## Jhaelen (Oct 1, 2018)

Zardnaar said:


> 1. People still use Macs?



Currently, I'm still using a PC running Windows 7. But my next PC is likely going to be a Mac, since I will never voluntarily use a PC running Windows 10. After over 25 years Microsoft has finally managed to alienate me.


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## Kaodi (Oct 2, 2018)

Who knows how long it will be before I get the chance but I really want to play this game using a character I played for awhile in a Kingmaker PbP here. The idea was to make her into a female Stag Lord by mashing Kressle, Happ, and the Stag Lords levels, skills, and feats together.


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## Aephix (Oct 2, 2018)

My biggest complaint right now is that I rolled a Bard (my fault) and the starting party composition ended up with 2 bards (me and Lini) and cleric and a barbarian.  So we have a bit of healing, but not a ton of damage dealing.  It got better once Valerie joined the party, but I'll do better once I can trade out Lini for a full arcane caster.


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## DnDDraco (Oct 3, 2018)

For someone that has never played Pathfinder before, would I be lost playing this?  I have been torn about getting it and went with Bard's Tale IV but it is still on the wishlist for later!


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## Derren (Oct 4, 2018)

DnDDraco said:


> For someone that has never played Pathfinder before, would I be lost playing this?  I have been torn about getting it and went with Bard's Tale IV but it is still on the wishlist for later!




If you have D&D experience it should be ok. If not than you will have a hard time as the PF/D&D 3E system is rather complex and there are not that many explanations in the game.


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## DnDDraco (Oct 4, 2018)

I have early and 1e experience and am reading through the 5e materials now.  I have played all of the NWN, IWD stuff that was put out a while back and this looks a lot like that but much crisper.


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## Larrin (Oct 6, 2018)

DnDDraco said:


> I have played all of the NWN, IWD stuff that was put out a while back and this looks a lot like that but much crisper.




If you played NWN (which used D&D 3.0) you should be able to get into Kingmaker. Pathfinder is essentially tweaked D&D3.5, so a lot of things, like feats, spells, saves are the same/similar, mostly more options have been added for each class.  It is a very "Full" system though, and it can be a bit to take in all at once.  Take your time with it and read your options. 

When in doubt  do whatever you can to increase your AC and attack bonus, because I'd forgotten what the world outside D&D5e bounded accuracy looked like.

Speaking of systems people don't use for games: I'm playing it on Linux.  It works, with a few oddities, like how whenever you type in a name it counts every keystroke twice.  My main character is named zZeeaalloott, and I'm just going to have to live with that.  Also, when using the cursor, it's detection of where you are clicking is closer to the center of mass of the cursor than  the tip like you'd expect.


Probably don't play it on Linux unless you have to is I guess what I'm saying.


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## Burnside (Oct 6, 2018)

My experience has been that the more hotfixes Owlcat throws at this game, the more unstable and unplayable it becomes. Supposed to be a major patch in late October; new players might want to wait for that.


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## jimtillman (Oct 23, 2018)

The treant bear and the tech league fights are beatable on normal. At level 2 but tactics and luck help a lot.   The. Kingdom making is very well done also


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## Morrus (Oct 24, 2018)

jimtillman said:


> The treant bear and the tech league fights are beatable on normal. At level 2 but tactics and luck help a lot.   The. Kingdom making is very well done also




What?


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