# "Elite Array" vs. Point Buy?



## stripes (Jul 10, 2008)

Does anyone use the Elite Array?   Or does everyone use Point Buy?     (well, or roll dice?)

In 3E my wife always has this fit of panic staring at a blank character sheet.   Eventually she gets over it and makes a character.    I never really understood it.

Last night I made a 4E charactor.   So I'm looking at point buy charts, then the powers, then the races, then back at powers, then at races, then skills, then races, then point buy charts.   I have to start somewhere.   Hey!  Ranger sounds cool, what race makes a good ranger?   Great, now...point buy charts...

Gah!   So I pick the elite array and have this nagging feeling that I am missing something...

I think I understand my wife better!

I would go back to rolling dice, but I really want to try 4E the way the designers intended it before I go wondering off on my own!

Does anyone else have this problem?    Does the elite array suck?   Did skipping point buy cost me?    What am I doing?   Who am I again?


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## Mr. Teapot (Jul 10, 2008)

My wife typically picks the Elite Array for building characters.  I think the responses you'll get here will favor point buy of Elite Array, whereas most 4th ed  players in the real world are more likely just using the Elite Array.  Or ignoring what the rules say and rolling or following their GM's local crazy houserules.


Anyway, the Elite Array is okay, but I prefer having my two lowest stats at 8 and 10 rather than 10 and 11.  So I typically get a pointbuy that's pretty close to the standard array, but with an extra point here or there.  Some classes need more good stats than others, but iI've never found a character where I couldn't totally abandon some stat.  Plus, an 8 gives me a flaw, which is more fun to roleplay.  Dumb, unwise or clumsy but otherwise hypercompetent characters are fun to play.


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## small pumpkin man (Jul 10, 2008)

The Array is just an example of possible point buy usage. There's nothing right or wrong about using it.


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## kouk (Jul 10, 2008)

small pumpkin man said:


> The Array is just an example of possible point buy usage. There's nothing right or wrong about using it.




Right. If you wanted to, you could use the Point Buy to exactly replicate the Array. All you are missing out on is the extreme precision that min-maxing your stats with point buy can grant, which may or may not be necessary for your character (and maybe not something you want to start with right at the beginning).


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## SSquirrel (Jul 10, 2008)

We currently only have 3 players and planned to have more heroic PCs.  We're using one each of 13-18.  You can roll a set of 4d6 reroll 1 and 2 for the DM and if it turns up better keep it.  Conveniently it also means that you can multiclass into any class youw ant since your lowest stat is 13


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## garyh (Jul 10, 2008)

They're not equal.  The elite array is technically inferior to point buy.

Elite array is:
16 14 13 12 11 10

One of the examples of point buy is:
16 14 14 12 11 10

Thus, the elite array is equal to a 20 point buy.  Seems goofy to me, as if they just gave you a 22 point buy elite array, it'd make it so whether a character used point buy or array, they'd be even.

Plus, I find the distribution of the elite array annoying - two odd numbers (no help till level 10), and like Mr. Teapot, I prefer the option of having an 8.


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## Center-of-All (Jul 10, 2008)

garyh said:


> They're not equal.  The elite array is technically inferior to point buy.
> 
> Elite array is:
> 16 14 13 12 11 10
> ...




No, the example point buy is 16 14 14 12 11 *8*. The elite array is 22 points, it just buys up it's 8 to a 10. Techincially, they are even.


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## fba827 (Jul 10, 2008)

The array gives you more "above average" stats.
A point buy allows for some exceptionally good and some average/lower than average stats.

Really just a matter of preference
1) Do you want it simple without feeling overwhelmed from adding up the point buy (then go for the array)
2) Do you want to push some of your stats high and leave some low and don't mind the number crunching (then go for point buy)

It's all a matter of preference.
Don't stress about it, just decide what you're more comfortable with and go with it.

And, you could do point-buy and end up with the scores presented in the array, so you are technically on the same "starting ground"


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## garyh (Jul 10, 2008)

Center-of-All said:


> No, the example point buy is 16 14 14 12 11 *8*. The elite array is 22 points, it just buys up it's 8 to a 10. Techincially, they are even.




D'oh!  I feel silly.  You are correct.

I still don't like the elite array, though.


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## silentounce (Jul 10, 2008)

garyh said:


> D'oh!  I feel silly.  You are correct.
> 
> I still don't like the elite array, though.




Elitist!!

Oh, wait...


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## erik_the_guy (Jul 10, 2008)

Yes, the standard array is just one possible choice for the point buy. It's also a good starting point. You can choose the standard array when you start making your character, then worry about race and class etc, then go back and fiddle with it when you have a better idea where you want your stats. Just remember to use the point buy BEFORE applying racial modifiers.

I personally thing that the standard array is below average, because it doesn't take an 8 like many point buy methods. I would advise using 16 14 14 12 11 8, and dumping the 8 into a useless stat.


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## theNater (Jul 10, 2008)

garyh said:


> Plus, I find the distribution of the elite array annoying - two odd numbers (no help till level 10), and like Mr. Teapot, I prefer the option of having an 8.



Having a few odd numbers is actually one of the things I like about the standard array, because it makes the ability boost at level 11 more meaningful.

Then there's the costs.  13, 12, 11 costs the same as 14, 11, 10.  It provides the same total bonus during heroic and epic tiers, and a slightly higher bonus during paragon tier.  Of course, single stat bonus can be more valuable than total bonus, but it does encourage well-rounded stats to a degree.

I'm with you 100% on the option of having an 8.  Sometimes it's just plain fun to play a character who is clumsy, or unlovable, or whatever.  But the array is a quick and handy way to spend the points when not going for such a character.


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## keterys (Jul 10, 2008)

I tend to prefer point buy, but I did the standard array for a less serious more 'one shotty' game that I wanted people to create characters for quickly and honestly, I was pretty happy with how it worked out.

Sufficiently so that I might be tempted to do it for most games that we're making characters at the table (rather than over email beforehand or somesuch).


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## chris.crouch (Jul 10, 2008)

erik_the_guy said:


> I would advise using 16 14 14 12 11 8, and dumping the 8 into a useless stat.




I tend to use 16 14 14 13 10 8 as my "default" array - that extra 13 to start with can qualify for more feats right from the start.

Chris


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## Talaeden_Denthiir (Jul 10, 2008)

Hey, and for a 'best of both world's' approach, so you don't have to wrack your brain during character creation trying to figure out the points (it took me a long time to relearn the new point buy method, as I was constantly adding it up in my head the old way...), you can use one of the examples of point buy on the top left of p. 18 in the PH to kind of pick a point buy 'array'.


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## OakwoodDM (Jul 10, 2008)

My players, when we were doing character gen for the game I started a couple of weeks ago, both chose the Array to start with, then used the point buy rules to tweak it to suit. That seems to be a nice middle ground between overwhelming options and underwhelming flexibility.


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## Xorn (Jul 10, 2008)

chris.crouch said:


> I tend to use 16 14 14 13 10 8 as my "default" array - that extra 13 to start with can qualify for more feats right from the start.
> 
> Chris




I've seen this one used a LOT.  It's really nice spread.  I'd dare say one of the best "all-comers" buys.


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