# Best Cleric Domains



## LiL KiNG (Jun 5, 2012)

Now I know the topic is completely subjective based on what you want your Cleric to do; healers want the _Healing_ domain of course and undead fighters are probably looking at _Glory_ and _Sun_ among others.
For a combat orientated Cleric though, what are some good domains to snag?
_
War_, if your deity has it (we're in the FR setting, but any setting's material is allowed), always seems good for the weapon proficiency and free Weapon Focus feat.  +1 to hit is always a good thing and as a bonus feat that is so much better than wasting a level feat slot on it.
_
Retribution_ seems fun for the 1/day maximized damage on an attack (wish this was powered by Turning!).  The large +2 greataxe this cleric is using would be nasty with this ability.

I don't recall the name but there is a domain I saw that grants Uncanny Dodge as its power - awesome, but the monster I'm going to give a level or two of Cleric to has Natural Cunning which already prevents it from being flat-footed.  Imp. Uncanny Dodge would be nice but I feel like I've seen a vision based feat that prevents flankers from getting an attack bonus, or a reduced bonus or something.  I realize he could still lose his Dex bonus to AC from being immobilized or attacked by someone invisible, so Uncanny Dodge is still a decent option at least.

So, for your battle themed Clerics, which domains do you prefer?

[I should mention casting, beyond self buffs/heals, won't be the focus of  this Cleric.  So domains that add +caster level are not preferred,  looking for domains that will directly benefit him in combat as his Cleric  level(s) will only give him one or two 1st level spells a day anyway.]


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## Sekhmet (Jun 5, 2012)

Hunger comes to mind. Free bite attack.
Luck is good for low saves.
Fate nets you Uncanny Dodge, which is nice.
Revered Ancestor nets you a free EWP.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 5, 2012)

For the Battle Cleric (as I look thru the Domain index.  It's a shame Crystalkeep is gone):

-*Celerity *for the +10 landspeed.  
-*Competition *for the +1 on all opposed checks (Saves, bull rush, etc.).
-*Darkness *for Blind Fight Feat.
-*Dream* for immunity to fear effects.
-*Fate* for Uncanny Dodge.
-*Magic* for the access to arcane spell completion and spell trigger items.  
-*Metal *for 2 feats, Martial Weapon Proficiency or Exotic Weapon Proficiency and Weapon Focus with a hammer weapon.
-*Passion* for the ability to rage # rounds per Cleric level, divided as you wish thru the day.
-*Shadow* for Blind Fight feat.
-*Time* for Improved Initiative
-*Travel* for the automatic triggered _Freedom of Movement_ ability # rounds per Cleric level.
-*War* for 2 feats, Martial Weapon Proficiency  and Weapon Focus with deities favored weapon.


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## kitcik (Jun 5, 2012)

*Knowledge* says "what's up yo? where's the love? trade me out for a devotion and I rock the house."


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 5, 2012)

kitcik said:


> *Knowledge* says "what's up yo? where's the love? trade me out for a devotion and I rock the house."



+1. (until xp returns)


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## Jacob Marley (Jun 5, 2012)

kitcik said:


> *Knowledge* says "what's up yo? where's the love? trade me out for a devotion and I rock the house."




The Complete Champion also offers guidance on domain equivalencies (page 53) allowing you to acquire Knowledge Devotion with either the Inquisition or Mind domains. I used this guidance to grant my cleric of Heironeous Knowledge Devotion even though the deity normally does not grant access to the Knowledge domain (instead he grants access through the Inquisition domain).


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## AeroDm (Jun 5, 2012)

War and Celerity both offer things you couldn't otherwise get at first level. The 3.0 version of Animal gave you a follower which was ridiculously powerful.


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## Grogg of the North (Jun 5, 2012)

Balance gives wisdom bonus to AC for rounds/level.

Celestial/Destruction/Orc gives a smite attack.

Competition for the +1 on opposed checks.

Elf will give you point blank shot, but doesn't help if you wanted to wade into combat.  But if you were to go zen archery ....

Hatred.  Gives bonuses versus a single opponent.

Metal gives you proficiency and focus with a hammer of your choice.

Nobility gives you a modified inspire courage.

Renewal auto heals you if you are dying.

Retribution/Wrath lets you attack someone that hit you previously.

Strength for the strength bonus.

Otherwise, you could go for Planning domain to get extend spell and then DMM Persist buff spells.  However, that option tends to make people feel dirty and die a little inside.


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## Samloyal23 (Jun 5, 2012)

The best domain is the one that promotes your cleric's beliefs and idealogy, not the one that gives you a nifty bonus. What does your character believe? What is the cleric trying to promot?


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## Sekhmet (Jun 5, 2012)

Samloyal23 said:


> The best domain is the one that promotes your cleric's beliefs and idealogy, not the one that gives you a nifty bonus. What does your character believe? What is the cleric trying to promot?




He believes in combat, and promotes the efficient practice thereof.

Time and a place, Samloyal.


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## kitcik (Jun 5, 2012)

Q:



Samloyal23 said:


> The best domain is the one that promotes your cleric's beliefs and idealogy, not the one that gives you a nifty bonus. What does your character believe? What is the cleric trying to promot?




A:








Conclusion:

Maybe I should take the nifty bonus...


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## Empirate (Jun 5, 2012)

Domains aren't solely about the granted power, they're also about the spells. And if the combination of the two is good, you're golden. For that reason, Travel would have to be my absolute second favorite domain. Freedom of Movement power plus Teleport and Fly spells equals awesome.

Why is this only my second favorite domain? Because with the Magic domain, you can use all Sor/Wiz spells in scroll, wand or staff form...


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## LiL KiNG (Jun 5, 2012)

kitcik said:


> *Knowledge* says "what's up yo? where's the love? trade me out for a devotion and I rock the house."




Ah, forgot about that devotion trick.  Good catch!



RUMBLETiGER said:


> It's a shame Crystalkeep is gone




Agreed.



RUMBLETiGER said:


> -*Fate* for Uncanny Dodge.




Fate!  There it is!  

Good lists people have put together so far.


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## xigbar (Jun 6, 2012)

Time and Celerity are good for giving spells you don't have normally and neat abilities. Planning and Undeath are great for Persist Spell set up. 

I'm a fan of the domains that increase your caster level on certain schools of magic. (Illusion Domain for +1 to illusion spells, Purification for Abjuration, etc...)


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## holyplankton (Jun 6, 2012)

I still like the Divine Magician alternate feature. Lets you choose your own spells from the Sor/Wiz list as long as they're spells from the Abjuration, Divination, or Necromancy schools. Makes a great spell list that you get to customize yourself based on what you need your cleric to do.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 6, 2012)

Samloyal23 said:


> The best domain is the one that promotes your cleric's beliefs and idealogy, not the one that gives you a nifty bonus. What does your character believe? What is the cleric trying to promot?



[Tongue in cheek]Gah! A Purist that believes in pursuing the faith for the purpose of the faith, instead of a means to the end![/Tongue in cheek]


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## LiL KiNG (Jun 6, 2012)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> [Tongue in cheek]Gah! A Purist that believes in pursuing the faith for the purpose of the faith, instead of a means to the end![/Tongue in cheek]






It is a good point nonetheless and important in FR.  To address it; I'm writing up a lesser deity who is nature/life/war focused for a home-brewed rhino race (appearance based on the awesome Kifaro miniature by Studio McVey) and they are very similar to Minotaurs stat wise, but more like Wemics in their tribal/nomadic way of life.  
Domains I'm looking at right now for the portfolio are; Healing, Life, Retribution, and War.

Was looking at/for other alternatives though.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 6, 2012)

Animal, Plant, and the various elemental Domains let you turn things that would not normally be turnable.  Some of the spells are nifty, as well.  That may be moot in your case, though.

A thought: if you have OA and its 3.5Ed Update in Dragon #318, you might consider the Shaman instead of the cleric, *depending on the monster you have in mind.*  It is still a full caster with 2+ Domains, gets IUC, etc., at the cost of Heavy armor prof and a couple of other things.


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## Lady Chaomii (Jun 6, 2012)

Maybe I have the wrong mentality, but when ever I use a cleric, I take the War domain and a fluff domain.

I mean bonus spells are great and all, but I find them far too situational, and I don't think I've ever used a cleric's domain to full effects. I mean the ability to turn water elementals? That's not even a type of monster, that IS a monster among how many?

At least the war domain gives the cleric a martial weapon, which makes them useful in combat. Not as much as a strait fighter, but seriously, your a cleric, not a fighter, get over it.

So to answer the question, I guess I say the best domain is the War domain, because it aids you in EVERY fight, not just on a rare basis.


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## Samloyal23 (Jun 6, 2012)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> [Tongue in cheek]Gah! A Purist that believes in pursuing the faith for the purpose of the faith, instead of a means to the end![/Tongue in cheek]




Correctamundo! Metagaming should be discouraged. No one puts their faith into a deity so they can a free feat or spell, they put their faith in a deity because that power fills a need in their life and answers the existential questions their life confronts them with...


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## Dandu (Jun 6, 2012)

What?

Plenty of people only follow a religion because it provides them with concrete benefits, like power, wealth, and glory. It happens all the time in real life - I'm sure you can provide examples from your own experiences.


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## LiL KiNG (Jun 6, 2012)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> [Tongue in cheek]Gah! A Purist that believes in pursuing the faith for the purpose of the faith, instead of a means to the end![/Tongue in cheek]






Samloyal23 said:


> Correctamundo! Metagaming should be  discouraged. No one puts their faith into a deity so they can a free  feat or spell, they put their faith in a deity because that power fills a  need in their life and answers the existential questions their life  confronts them with...




I find that RP and optimizing should work hand-in-hand, not exclusively of each other.  Yes, you should be able to roleplay why your character is the way he is or believes what he does, but not at the expense of hindering yourself with useless features (like the ability to Turn water elements as mentioned above).  Luckily most deities offer 3-5 domains in their portfolio so you can cherry-pick what will work best for your particular character concept while following the tenets of your chosen deity.

Another thing that plays into this is the DM and campaign setting.  If your DM tells you before making your character that the world is overrun with undead a Cleric will likely stack his arsenal with things to enhance his abilities against undead.  Just like a Rogue would look for ways to apply sneak attack to undead targets.  Its just smart.  

My favorite PC by far was a gnome barbarian (with a beard) armed with a greatsword and buckler.  He was fun, he was plucky, but he was hardly optimized even with the lion totem/pounce feature.

For the race I'm creating they live in harmony with nature, they revere life, but they are no strangers to war and are stubborn, holding grudges against those who have threatened or harmed them or their tribe.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 6, 2012)

Samloyal23 said:


> Correctamundo! Metagaming should be discouraged. No one puts their faith into a deity so they can a free feat or spell, they put their faith in a deity because that power fills a need in their life and answers the existential questions their life confronts them with...






Dandu said:


> What?
> 
> Plenty of people only follow a religion because it provides them with concrete benefits, like power, wealth, and glory. It happens all the time in real life - I'm sure you can provide examples from your own experiences.



While I know this is outside the intentions of the OP & I know enworld discourages conversations on real world religious discussion, I'll briefly say that while I agree with you Samloyal on both the principle behind the problem of metagaming and the principle behind what should drive faith, I must concede Dandu's point and agree that human history proves your statement false.  On both principles.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 6, 2012)

LiL KiNG said:


> It is a good point nonetheless and important in FR.  To address it; I'm writing up a lesser deity who is nature/life/war focused for a home-brewed rhino race (appearance based on the awesome Kifaro miniature by Studio McVey) and they are very similar to Minotaurs stat wise, but more like Wemics in their tribal/nomadic way of life.
> Domains I'm looking at right now for the portfolio are; Healing, Life, Retribution, and War.
> 
> Was looking at/for other alternatives though.



Courtesy of Kung Fu Panda 2:





Sweet.


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## Dandu (Jun 6, 2012)

LiL KiNG said:


> Yes, you should be able to roleplay why your character is the way he is or believes what he does, but not at the expense of hindering yourself with useless features (like the ability to Turn water elements as mentioned above).



Black Dragons have the water subtype, you know.


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## LiL KiNG (Jun 6, 2012)

Dandu said:


> Black Dragons have the water subtype, you know.




True and an excellent point. A few other creatures have the water subtype as well, but overall they are a minority or rarely encountered.  Could be useful if the adventure path/world dealt heavily in or under water, but in your typical game the Water domain is kind of a dud.


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## LiL KiNG (Jun 6, 2012)

not sure how to add an image... pasting the link in the insert image box doesn't seem to be doing the trick for me, but here is the link to the pic of the miniature;
http://www.google.com/imgres?q=kifa...w=142&start=0&ndsp=21&ved=1t:429,r:0,s:0,i:73


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 6, 2012)

LiL KiNG said:


> It is a good point nonetheless and important in FR.  To address it; I'm writing up a lesser deity who is nature/life/war focused for a home-brewed rhino race (appearance based on the awesome Kifaro miniature by Studio McVey) and they are very similar to Minotaurs stat wise, but more like Wemics in their tribal/nomadic way of life.
> Domains I'm looking at right now for the portfolio are; Healing, Life, Retribution, and War.
> 
> Was looking at/for other alternatives though.




I once had a Minotaurean culture in a 2Ed homebrew that was based on Plains Indisn cultures.  They were not horsemen (too large) but did use chariots.  They were accomplished archers and javelineers, and we're also good with spears and throwing hand/axes.

We're I doing them now, I'd look at Sun, Travel, Animals, Plant, Healing, Protection, War, Weather, Trickery and the Elemental domains as being popular in their pantheon.  I might throw in Ancestors, especially if I were using Shamans instead of Clerics.

Also, I would be tempted to have those with the War domain have a slightly different granted power were I to use the Plains Indian model.  A priest with that domain could choose to have Wespon focus with his natural weapons (or IUC) for the purpose of counting coup.


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## PrinceAngore (Jun 6, 2012)

LiL KiNG said:


> My favorite PC by far was a gnome barbarian (with a beard) armed with a greatsword and buckler.  He was fun, he was plucky, but he was hardly optimized even with the lion totem/pounce feature.




You and I must play in different worlds...how does a gnome carry a Greatsword, let alone while using a buckler??? Now granted I play oldschool 2.5 but still, the physics alone just don't match up...


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## LiL KiNG (Jun 6, 2012)

PrinceAngore said:


> You and I must play in different worlds...how does a gnome carry a Greatsword, let alone while using a buckler??? Now granted I play oldschool 2.5 but still, the physics alone just don't match up...




Indeed.  Well in 3.5 weapon size categories come into play (I don't remember enough about 2e to recall weapon sizes there), so a small creature's greatsword is sized for them, and only deals 1d10 damage vs. a  medium sized greatsword's 2d6.

A buckler is a small shield strapped to your arm, leaving your hand(s) free.  I had to take a feat to retain the AC bonus while fighting, but there was still that pesky -1 attack penalty since I was using a 2hd weapon with it.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 6, 2012)

LiL KiNG said:


> not sure how to add an image... pasting the link in the insert image box doesn't seem to be doing the trick for me, but here is the link to the pic of the miniature;
> Google Image Result for http://cdn.highwire.com/3116004.jpg




First get to the image itself (often google provides the "Full-Size image" button on the sidebar).  

Copy the webpage address (In this case "http://cdn.highwire.com/3116004.jpg")  

Then among the post options is and "insert Image" button, it looks like a tiny picture of two mountain peaks on a yellow background.  

Then paste the webpage address in that box and click ok!


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## Shaghayegh (Jun 7, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I once had a Minotaurean culture in a 2Ed homebrew that was based on Plains Indisn cultures. They were not horsemen (too large) but did use chariots. They were accomplished archers and javelineers, and we're also good with spears and throwing hand/axes.
> 
> We're I doing them now, I'd look at Sun, Travel, Animals, Plant, Healing, Protection, War, Weather, Trickery and the Elemental domains as being popular in their pantheon. I might throw in Ancestors, especially if I were using Shamans instead of Clerics.
> 
> Also, I would be tempted to have those with the War domain have a slightly different granted power were I to use the Plains Indian model. A priest with that domain could choose to have Wespon focus with his natural weapons (or IUC) for the purpose of counting coup.




Chariots? Hmm... Anyone know if any tribes in the Americas ever developed chariots or wagons?


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## GhostBear (Jun 7, 2012)

I can't recall of any native American tribes that developed anything like chariots. Remember, horses in general were a new creature to the Americas at this point in time: they didn't exist here until the Europeans brought them across the ocean. It also took them a while to adapt them to mounted combat. Also, the wheel was also a generally unknown technology.

And, actually, very few tribes engaged in mounted combat. A lot of combat pre-horse involved ambush, and they kept this style of combat since it worked so well. The problem is that sneaking up on someone with horses is pretty difficult. Instead, horses were used to get in the vicinity of their target then everyone would dismount, leaving a few people behind to handle the animals.

For further reading, consider [ame="http://www.amazon.com/Empire-Summer-Moon-Comanches-Powerful/dp/1416591052"]Empire of the Summer Moon[/ame] which is an excellent read. It details the rise and fall of the Comanche, of which the horse (and their use of the horse) was a driving factor. These are the guys who popularized mounted combat among the native tribes and they were REALLY good at it. Plus, these were people with a striking distance of 300-400 _miles_ from their primary encampment. All without maps. Much of the travel being in the dead of night. The mind boggles! 

The US military had a hell of a time fighting these guys because, with such a large range, it was extremely difficult to find out where their camps were located and they could appear anywhere, anytime. The ultimate guerrilla warfare of the time.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 7, 2012)

Shaghayegh said:


> Chariots? Hmm... Anyone know if any tribes in the Americas ever developed chariots or wagons?




None did, AFAIK, but it was the only way to keep a horse culture and combat mobility as part of those Minotaur tribes.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 7, 2012)

> The problem is that sneaking up on someone with horses is pretty difficult.




Appaloosas are notoriously unwilling to wear shinobi shozoko and tabi.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 8, 2012)

> LiL KiNG:
> Well, got my keyboard wet with that one... thanks a lot lol.




I get a kickback from Microsoft & Logitech...


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## Shaghayegh (Jun 8, 2012)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> None did, AFAIK, but it was the only way to keep a horse culture and combat mobility as part of those Minotaur tribes.




They could ride something more rugged, like a bison... And North America had equines that went extinct thousands of years ago, they were larger than modern horse...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 8, 2012)

Wouldn't work- a 2Ed Minotaur was nearly as massive as a bison.  Plus bison aren't really domesticable.

I mean, yeah, it was my campaign, and I could have scoured the monster manuals or homebrewed something, but chariots were easier.


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## Herzog (Jun 8, 2012)

Did you know the 'minotaur' has also been depicted as a kind of centaur?
Maybe you could do something with that?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 8, 2012)

I always preferred the classic "Bull's headed" Minotaurs, myself.


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## Shaghayegh (Jun 9, 2012)

Herzog said:


> Did you know the 'minotaur' has also been depicted as a kind of centaur?
> Maybe you could do something with that?




I believe the four-legged bovine monster is called a "bucentaur" in classical literature...


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## Dandu (Jun 9, 2012)

You mean a cow?


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## Samloyal23 (Jun 10, 2012)

Shaghayegh said:


> I believe the four-legged bovine monster is called a "bucentaur" in classical literature...










The bucentaur has a shorter, wider, lower body then a centaur, with shorter legs, so it looks like a bull instead of a horse. Some have horns, some do not...


Edit: I cannot find one on google, but I have also seen pictures of four-legged bucentaur with a bull's head, like a minotaur.


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## Adimus (Jun 11, 2012)

Samloyal23 said:


> The best domain is the one that promotes your cleric's beliefs and idealogy, not the one that gives you a nifty bonus. What does your character believe? What is the cleric trying to promot?



Right On!


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## Herzog (Jun 13, 2012)

Do a google picture search on 'labyrinth', and you'll find a few with a 'centaur' version of the minotaur in it. quick research shows it's a picture dating to ca 1800.


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 13, 2012)

Herzog said:


> Do a google picture search on 'labyrinth', and you'll find a few with a 'centaur' version of the minotaur in it. quick research shows it's a picture dating to ca 1800.



This one?


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## Will (Jun 14, 2012)

Interesting placement of googly bits. Huh.

(Then again, Greeks had some funny weird beasts, like the penis birds. Imagine penises. With wings. Flying around.)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 14, 2012)

Will said:


> Interesting placement of googly bits. Huh.
> 
> (Then again, Greeks had some funny weird beasts, like the penis birds. Imagine penises. With wings. Flying around.)




I've probably posted King Missile's "Detachable Penis" on this site too many times this year, so I'll just let that pass.


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## Herzog (Jun 14, 2012)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> This one?



 yep, that one


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## Empath Negative (Jun 14, 2012)

The destiny domain is made from pure concentrated awesome.

Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2


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## Samloyal23 (Jun 14, 2012)

An interesting pic of a four-legged minotaur for a Tunnels & Trolls adventure module...


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## Empirate (Jun 15, 2012)

Empath Negative said:


> Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I997 using Tapatalk 2





So you really are that other, banned guy. I had wondered.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 16, 2012)

Wha?


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## RUMBLETiGER (Jun 17, 2012)

Empirate said:


> So you really are that other, banned guy. I had wondered.






Dannyalcatraz said:


> Wha?



He Means Something Simmilar In This.

Just speculation, not proof, obviously.


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