# World of Lodor Uploaded - Trial Basis



## Morrus (Dec 18, 2004)

OK, I'm giving another module a try.  This one is called World of Lodor.

 It may need some changes made. It doesn't have Item Level Restriction (apparently that's necessary for some of the sub-race stuff incuded in it). I'm not overly familiar with the module, though, so I'll be learning about it at the same time you are.



> 1.  A deity system to further expand your      character. 2.  Extra playable races - Drow,      Quickling, Brownie, Sylvan, & Duergar.
> 
> 3.  Skills - Alchemy, Mining, &      Fishing.
> 
> ...









> *Q.  What is the World of      Lodor?*
> 
> *A. Lodor is months of work on a huge world of my own design. Taking the experience of many online games, I created a game that I think would be fun for all. I plan to improve on Lodor based on player suggestions.*
> 
> ...


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## Chaz (Dec 18, 2004)

Ok thanks Morrus. Good of you to give something new a try. I will have a look at it also. 
The "drop all gold and items on death"  and the "need food & water to rest" things are pretty hard core though...

Peace


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## cantrip (Dec 18, 2004)

And a warning to those who want to bring existing characters:
All gear and gold is lost on entering the world


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## Chaz (Dec 18, 2004)

cantrip said:
			
		

> And a warning to those who want to bring existing characters:
> All gear and gold is lost on entering the world



Yea i can verify that for sure. Lost everything on a char. Can we get this shut off? 
I took a 2nd lev char in that i had. Lost everything. Anyway... its hard to get started ... cant sell furs or anything. The requirment for food and water is just a pain element that id like to see go.

Anyway can we get the item/gold stripping thing turned off? I will wait to look at the MOD further untill it is.

Peace


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## Neo (Dec 18, 2004)

Few comments/observations so far...

The item/gold stripping when you first log in with a character thing is tied i think to the No Item Level Restriction issue needing to be switched off for custom subraces in an attempt to maintain the balance of the module.  The mod is not a powergaming mod like PoA and is more like CHAINMAIL in that items are pretty rare whatever armour and weapons you get and gold you earn you are supposed to make or earn for yourselves.  Allowing an influx of PoA items and fortunes wouldnt provide a proper World of Lodor experience for the purpose of giving this mod a legitemate try out.

I'd suggest everyone make a new character just for the trial..and if the mod is later decided upon as a PoA replacement then we can look into sorting something for existing characters/assets?

The food and drink issue to be honest i didnt really find anywhere near as awkward and cumbersome as such things are in many other mods... water and food can be found everywhere!  But then you could argue if that was the case then why does it need representing as its obviously not an issue to a character 

The loot/gold dropping over 4th is something im not in favour of at all... if you lose all your gear some way away from where you were your expected to run unarmed and naked back to where you died to get them from your headstone...but when you leave a map all the creatures you defeated respawn so next time you run through you trigger and attract all the same old creatures again including the one which killed you...its just not practical.

Havent seen too much in regards of the dynamic quests yet but each starting town seems to have one person who asks you to do something..though these tasks are typically a lot tougher than the ones they are given too.

Different races starting in a different location is a nice idea but the custom factions are a total pain in the butt.. demi humans who dont like your faction dont just ignore you they can outright attack you.. and be warned very VERY few of the NPC's in the various towns are below CR 20!  just walking into a tavern can get you killed in seconds as one of the NPC's in there registers his faction hates yours...   This is also a problem as it tends to encourage you not to wander outside your starting town and adjoining maps, and also to hang with just members of your own race, which is not entirely practical...  Of course you can do things to alter your factions such as being partied with a member of another race..but such faction changes to the positive are far too few and far between to be of much use when you have a CR 20 spellcaster chasing you down the street throwing implosions 

lots of crafting and additions to the standard system of crafting which are nice and the maps are well done if somewhat light on locations.  Respawns are a little too fast too..as are monsters abilities to move through a transition...you can be on a few hit points and run during a fight hit a transition point ahead of your enemy only to arrive the other side and find them waiting for you..smack..thud...time for a respawn   something to be aware of.

Banking system is a nice touch and one a wholeheartedly support! though again factions can prevent banking with any banker except of your own species, so if you head to another town suddenyl you can find yourself cut off from your cash.


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## Greylock (Dec 19, 2004)

Again, hopefully I will be patched by tomorrow night. Lookin' forward to seeing what subraces are offered, and how they are handled...


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## Chaz (Dec 19, 2004)

> Few comments/observations so far...
> 
> The item/gold stripping when you first log in with a character thing is tied i think to the No Item Level Restriction issue needing to be switched off for custom subraces in an attempt to maintain the balance of the module. The mod is not a powergaming mod like PoA and is more like CHAINMAIL in that items are pretty rare whatever armour and weapons you get and gold you earn you are supposed to make or earn for yourselves. Allowing an influx of PoA items and fortunes wouldnt provide a proper World of Lodor experience for the purpose of giving this mod a legitemate try out.
> 
> I'd suggest everyone make a new character just for the trial..and if the mod is later decided upon as a PoA replacement then we can look into sorting something for existing characters/assets?



Ummm yeah.... Most of these MODS are set up for new chars coming in. I was thinking we were trying to find a stable world that we could bring our exssiting chars in so we DIDNT have to start all over again.

And as far as just checking out the new MOD goes... Here again since it sounded like it was put up for a short test it seemed like the best way to really have a look at it was to go in with a CHAR that you could actualy take someplace and look around. Not to easy with a brand new poor char you have to play hours and hours to get where he can do anything and live.



> ""Allowing an influx of PoA items and fortunes wouldnt provide a proper World of Lodor experience for the purpose of giving this mod a legitemate try out.""



I was hoping more for a stable world for my chars to explore and continue to grow than a "new Mod" to try out from scratch. Sure I will likely make a new char or two along the way. But right now im just looking to try out chars I already have weeks/months invested in.

Anyway thats why id like to see the item/gold stripping eliminated. 

Peace


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## cantrip (Dec 19, 2004)

I was supposed to write this last night after playing, but my laptop ran out of power, and I wasn't going to get up from bed to plug it in

First thing: The save mechanism has to be modified or removed. It's irritating and more importantly distracting.

The world itself looks like a nice place. Although for even 16 players it's huge. Especially if they are of several different races. 
I have so far seen the human lands in the north, some of the halfling lands in the east, and travelled naked through the Underpass from the orcish jungles of the south, reaching the surface near the human lands, taking a ship to the elven city in the northwest(Where the epic half-orc was killed by the first elf to catch him).

I think Neo mentioned most of my other concerns. 
The death penalty is too severe, and also too easy to cheat. 
The factions are a nice touch, but in a short playtest they severely limit what you can do. 
The racial starting locations being scattered around the world.

Bugs: If two people(presumably of the same party) are dead and close to eachother, one of them trying to respawn seems to save a chance of bringing the other character back to life(with death penalties enforced), but also preventing the other from respawning. Every time he tries to respawn, the other character is healed to full HP, and suffers the equipment and XP loss as if he had died and respawned.

Other stuff: Most of the encounters seem to be fixed, or with very little scaling so far. The kobold mines spawned similar critters whether the people going there were 1st, 5th, 18th or 29tth level. On the other hand a goblin cave somewhere near halfling lands upgraded all goblins to either hobgoblins or bugbears, don't remember exactly, between levels 1 and 5.

Magic items may be fixed too, except for quest rewards, which seem to come customized to the person doing the quest.(I've seen one quest through twice, so that may or may not be true, and at 5th level, mostly thanks to the previously mentioned bug I found myself in possession of a +2 warhammer with extra cold damage)

Now I'll have some breakfast and then I'll try to repeat some of last nights events(no not all the deaths ).


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## Neo (Dec 19, 2004)

cantrip said:
			
		

> On the other hand a goblin cave somewhere near halfling lands upgraded all goblins to either hobgoblins or bugbears, don't remember exactly, between levels 1 and 5.




The Purg has fixed encounters too bud, those Hobgoblins and cave goblins were spawned by me when I came on as DM to resolve the problem with you being stuck as dead unable to respawn.


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## Neo (Dec 19, 2004)

Chaz said:
			
		

> Ummm yeah.... Most of these MODS are set up for new chars coming in. I was thinking we were trying to find a stable world that we could bring our exssiting chars in so we DIDNT have to start all over again.
> 
> And as far as just checking out the new MOD goes... Here again since it sounded like it was put up for a short test it seemed like the best way to really have a look at it was to go in with a CHAR that you could actualy take someplace and look around. Not to easy with a brand new poor char you have to play hours and hours to get where he can do anything and live.
> 
> ...




Heya Chaz

Mod Stability is important certainly but that is just one criteria on the list of what is being sought..afterall we have a stable mod already PoA but what were looking for is a more inclusive experience on all fronts, in order to get a persistent mod that has a decent lifespan.

In order to "experience" a mod as it is intended it is necessary initially to work through it as it was designed from first.. this allows you to guages whether encounters balance well, items drop suitably, areas and merchants are accessible enough.. whether the whole progression works fine via quests or simple exploration.. it isnt so much about coming on with an epic guy and being able to go wherever in a sight seeing fashion    at least not for the initial trial anyway.

If this mod is the one that is decided upon then im sure the item/gold removal for existing characters can be resolved "Post" trial but until then I think its important people experience the module as it was intended in order to see what the merits and flaws of it are in a "realistic" experience of it from the ground up.  

Also bare in mind if this module is kept that it is also quite likely that PoA items would be removed anyway for a number of reasons..so experiencing the module geared up to the eyeballs would only serve to give people a rose tinted view of how their charaters would function in the World of Lodor, which isnt helpful for purposes of getting a fair and honest trial.


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## Morrus (Dec 19, 2004)

Chaz said:
			
		

> I was hoping more for a stable world for my chars to explore and continue to grow than a "new Mod" to try out from scratch. Sure I will likely make a new char or two along the way. But right now im just looking to try out chars I already have weeks/months invested in.



 If you can find something more suitable, Chaz, we'll try it by all means.  But we're not exactly overwhelmed with options here....


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## cantrip (Dec 19, 2004)

Neo said:
			
		

> The Purg has fixed encounters too bud, those Hobgoblins and cave goblins were spawned by me when I came on as DM to resolve the problem with you being stuck as dead unable to respawn.




The worgs too? I mean I didn't meet a single goblin on the way out...


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## Neo (Dec 19, 2004)

cantrip said:
			
		

> The worgs too? I mean I didn't meet a single goblin on the way out...




The first Worg that appeared yesterday with the hobgoblins I sapwned..but later on one spawned on its own so that is likely part of the encounter table.. but the hobgoblins, cave goblins, blackrose elves etc..were all me.


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## Neo (Dec 19, 2004)

Morrus said:
			
		

> If you can find something more suitable, Chaz, we'll try it by all means.  But we're not exactly overwhelmed with options here....




Yup persistent worlds for download are definitely light on the ground  :\   Pity I couldnt get a hold of Neversummer 2 which was a very large, nice mod before it got taken down the powergaming route...to oblivion.


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## Jesus_marley (Dec 20, 2004)

My observations so far...

While I like the concept of no penalties for low level characters, I have noticed that a great deal of encounters simply slaughter the low levels forcing continual respawns. 
I think it would make sense to either try to tone down the encounters a bit, or simply start characters at 3rd or 4th level.

My biggest peeve so far with this mod is the merchant system. I want to tear my hair out whenever I have to go back to town to either buy or sell something. Maybe it is simply the town I am in but I can not find any merchant who will buy what I am carrying. even if it's only for 1 gold. There is nothing more frustrating than lugging around 50 pounds of "loot" (and I use that term lightly), to 7 different stores and every single one won't buy a damned thing from me. 
I can understand going to different merchants to buy different items but all (at least most) merchants should be willing to purchase from me.


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## Wayfarer (Dec 20, 2004)

Jesus_marley said:
			
		

> My observations so far...
> 
> While I like the concept of no penalties for low level characters, I have noticed that a great deal of encounters simply slaughter the low levels forcing continual respawns.
> I think it would make sense to either try to tone down the encounters a bit, or simply start characters at 3rd or 4th level.



You hit my concerns right on Jesus_marley. This might be the best solution when trying a new char. The world's got an interesting feel [altho staring at snow and ice onscreen when it's -26° outside takes some of the fun out], but a bit tedious if you don't take an already advanced char in. Tried one called World of Rykaria that did this well, with good alternate skills, when I got tired of respawning the other night. This server I tried it on had some mods to the Ai that added to the fun and realism. Don't know if it's a big enough place for the long term plans for ENWorld.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 20, 2004)

As noted the starting leve should be boosted too tough. My Sylvain Druids starting area had owlbears, some mini treant things and ogrilons to kill. Upon wandering found easier area with giant spiders and zombies and some tough swamp Dragons. Traveled more and found bugbears. This is a first level character these fights are way too tough. 

Also I was grouped with someone another Druid and we found all our xp was being divided by 2. So grouping = less xp and doesn't seem to generate more monsters.

Not looking very good for this Mod. Chainmail was better by far. The advantage this mod has over chainmail is not one crash the whole time I played it.


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## cmanos (Dec 20, 2004)

jumped on yesterday morning and was caught by surprise when I appeared somewhere I had no clue where I was.  Should proove interesting.  Needing food and water to rest is hardcore, but right now, where I am.  Fairly easy to get, as long as the things I do get me enough cash to buy food.

Q.  If you kill an animal, does it give you food?


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## Wayfarer (Dec 20, 2004)

cmanos said:
			
		

> Q. If you kill an animal, does it give you food?



Yep, and a hide. But you have to cook the raw meat at a fire. Food and water aren't too bad ,at least at the early part.


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## EN_blakman (Dec 20, 2004)

My findings for this mod; totally objective ;-)

The world tries to be more real and is a bit more on the rpg side.

1) Food & Water
Since it's easy to have food & water it's only a little bit annoying, but then: why is it there in the first place? (ok, it feels a little more like a real rpg ...)

2) Death penalty
Same is true for gold & item drop on death: gold is safe in a bank & for the items there is the insurance (just costs gold); this is a little bit more annoying; if i have mechanisms to circumvent the death penalty then it's just there to "discipline" the players to always renew the insurance and go to the bank; the game just could make a gold penalty on death and that's it.

3) Starting locations, factions and races
This is a pure hindrance for party play; so long as we don't have 20+ players continually on Enworld this means we have to go with one race or play alone.
It's a typical hen & egg problem: with PoA we probably won't attract any more players or bind them long enough; with WoL we have a long starting phase which maybe frustrating for the players (i am little bit) before we attract more players.

4) Scaling
The areas (at least the ones i visitied so far) are not scaling at all.

5) Stability
Just one problem until now (the one cantrip described); no crashes at all.

6) Merchants
I have the same opinion as Jesus Marley; it's very frustrating that i can't sell my stuff to one merchant; again this is just another thing to harass the players. It's ok for me that i have to buy things from different merchants.

(my) conclusion:
Nice world but too big for the amount of players we have.
I think it's a lot less rewarding (by intention) then PoA & Chainmail and this has frustrated me a little bit; i have only a "small" amount of time to play and this isn't worth it i think.
Were it not for the other Enworld players i probably won't show up anymore; but since my fellow players are a nice bunch to hang out with i will test further.

I am for going back to PoA until the next release of Chainmail; then test Chainmail for stability & if it's stable enough do the switch (if you want).

I know i should stop whining and kill some monsters instead.


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## cantrip (Dec 20, 2004)

EN_blakman said:
			
		

> 2) Death penalty
> Same is true for gold & item drop on death: gold is safe in a bank & for the items there is the insurance (just costs gold); this is a little bit more annoying; if i have mechanisms to circumvent the death penalty then it's just there to "discipline" the players to always renew the insurance and go to the bank; the game just could make a gold penalty on death and that's it.




I also ran into something called potions of preservation that should protect from the death penalties. Of course I never had the chance to try one before a hostile dwarf NPC hit me with a DC 35 implosion


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## cantrip (Dec 21, 2004)

Just completed an overland trip from Aldur to Farandor. 

Took over 2 hours real time. Most of the time I had to sneak around, the rest I was probably running for my life. It wouldn't be a problem if this was a linear design, but surviving ettins, lizardmen, dire tigers, phase spiders and a lot of other things just to reach another starting location, functionally identical to the place you left is a bit, meh...

A good thing to remember while adventuring is that most things seem to be hostile toward anything different. I've escaped several times by luring a monster close to a hostile animal or rarely an NPC in the wilderness.
Not very heroic, though

The mod could really use a common starting location for players...


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## Greylock (Dec 21, 2004)

Finally.

Took.

A.

Look.

At.

This.

Mod.

In.

Play.


Annoying.

As.

All.

Heck.

Ain't.

It.

Move.

One.

Space.

Kill.

Deer.

Find.

Fire.

Again.

Heat.

Meat.

Sleep/Rest.

Go.

Get.

Killed.

By.

Orc.

Again.

The steps  forward don't  seem to equal the   steps back. I feel like  this  char is negative 2nd level after playing for three   hours.


The RP value of the food and water requirement is non-existant. But  garsh, killing them badgers is rewarding, right?

Kind of annoying also, when a  opponent can kill my first level, first run char with one hit. And again. And then again. First level in this mod...Must  be in an area I can't  handle...Hey? What about the other side of town?

'K.

Killed a wolf. w00t. Then a bear laid in on me.

And then a Bombadier beetle hit my FIRST level char with a spell that sank 3 ability scores, plus disease. Fun. No save possible, no recovery. 'S'ok,  I think....Kill a buncha deer to try and rest it out.Eventually had to die to regain those points. At char XP total 0. Fun.

Yes, much fun.


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## cmanos (Dec 21, 2004)

I can't count how many times I've been killed by the mountain lions.  I'm a L2 Paladin and I get my butt kicked by these cats.  

Food and water isn't the issue that I expected, at least not yet.

I could definitely see how this is a party server, but then you need a group of people you know that all decide to create the same race so you all start in the same spot.

Intertesting idea.  Will continue with it while it is up.  Unfortunately, none of my friends have both expansions so I'll be going it alone for a while.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 21, 2004)

After my playing yesterday and actualy reaching 4th level I experienced the loot loss. I had it insured. unfortunalty only good for 1 death. No problem right go to nearest town and reinsure. But low and behold I can't my cash is in bank and halflings wont talk to my sylvan druid. In order to get to my starting location have to go through some bog area and another. Both with tough fights. I find mod more frustrating than fun dont start me on selling loot.

Chainmail was a much better mod feature wise. The advantage to this mod is the stability. 

I think this mod may need to much tweaking. Need to tweek the dying penalties. Need to tweak factions to allow use to talk to people in all towns. Need to tweak in ability to sell. Need to tweak starting level and some basic equipment 100 gp is not enough for armour and weapon if want toplay a tank.
Need some NFO file stating what areas are safe for what level.

Now a question. Any idea what level  one needs to be to join a religion?
I ahve found the Nature altar which I want and thief one.


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## Doshi (Dec 21, 2004)

I thought I might try a new PC just to see if it was the starting class that was too challenging with my first PC. Well, I managed to spend the piddly amt of gold I had right away [after having even the basic essential armour, weapons and equipment stripped from me as I entered the game]. Now I can't even leave the starting location as I need to pay for a boat ride!? There's nothing to fight but NPC merchants and civilians, so I'm beat. 

I hope the Powers-that-Be make some tweaks soon or I'd say this mod's a bust.


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## J-Buzz (Dec 21, 2004)

I actually like this mod.  I have the same feelings regarding the death penalties, as the other players.  However, I think that this mod has a lot of potential.  Add a few low level dungeon crawls around the starting locations, and that will allow chars. to level enough to brave the world.  But I really like the background story, and the fact that there are quests to be taken.  I actually like the factions and the role-playing that they present us.  I don't think that a person should attack right away.  There is the point of lawful alignments that should prevent a person from being hostile to the point of trying to kill a player.

But this brings up a question.  What are the admins looking for when it comes to a pw.  One that needs 0 work or effort to make it a fun place to play?  One that can be used as a base, and takes some effort to make it fun?  Also what players would be willing to help in the design.  IE:  The admins think a cave around the halfling villiage to explore would be good.  Posts to the forum and someone volunteers to design and develop one, mailing it to the admins for review, which they then add to the dungeon.  I am not sure how well the toolset allows for this, but I would be willing to help in that area.

I think that this world would be a fun world to play in if we spent some time and effort to add/tweek some of the areas to make it fun, and correct the problems discussed in this thread.

The same could be said of chainmail, except for the stability of the original module.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 21, 2004)

Yes however when my sylvain Druid can't buy or sell suplies in a halfing village and  needs to spend 1/2 hour traveling back to my starting village. That is the problem with factions IMO. I should be able to at least interact with vendors in any city. Sure boost the prices no quests, no one else want to talk to you is all fine but vendors should still be able to interact with.

I use a bank to save gold. I bind my soul to a tree near a bugbear cave. I die no problem my loot is insured. I die again and learn insurance only works for 1 death. I go to halfling vilage to reinsure my stuff. Well I can't get money out of bank as he wont talk to me. I can interact with vault and buy insurance but need cash to do it. I can't sell loot as they wont talk to me. I need to waist 1/2 hour game time hoping I don't die just to go back to my starting village so I can take money out of bank. Of course now if I die I may lose my cash. Totaly deevaluing the point of a bank.

The areas are nice. The mod is fresh and secure but this faction thing could be a breaker for me. Never mind the fact I can't sell my items like slings, gems, jewelry, magic staff etc. I like the mod for the most part but think there is too much modifing to be done by the dms and Morrus to make it feasable for continued use.


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## J-Buzz (Dec 21, 2004)

Yes I understand the problem that your druid is in.  However if they fix the death penalty, then you will have all your stuff, so you won't need the insurance and then you won't be "stuck" in a place/area where the people don't like you.  Then you have the ability to escape the areas that are not friendly to you.

That is 1 fix that solves many problems, don't you think.

As far as selling, maybe you haven’t found the right place.  I can't sell Magic Staff, and scrolls, but have been able to sell jewels and such to the Jeweler in the human settlement.  As I recall I have never been able to sell mundane slings or staffs no matter what mod I have played.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 21, 2004)

Can't sell my +1 sling and the staff I want to sell is +1 damage vs constructs that I can't sell. 

I saw the jewler in the human village also saw a magic user store in brownie village. I sold my mage scrolls to him. If I travel to human settlement  will the jeweler talk to me? That is the issue. I may travel all that way to adventure in that area and find I can't interact with the vendors. Am I stuck around the Sylvain village? What towns can I interact with vendors in? I don't think I should have to worry about things like this when playing a video game. To me it starts to be more frustrating than fun at this point. Like I said I have no problem with villagers not talking to me or giving me quests but making vendors the same is going way to far. 

As too the insurance/bank if we go with a standard 10% penalty these vendors should be removed. Morrus has stated he doesn't want to do extremley complicated alterations. It seems to me most of the stuff we want changed would fall under this catagory.


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## Greylock (Dec 21, 2004)

When I logged in last night,  I was whisked to a small village. Very few vendors, all elf, none of whom seem interested at all in what little loot I've found so far, even though my char is an elf.

Quests: Only one was suggested. I thought there were quests aplenty? The one I was offered was rather open ended, and didn't show in my journal as a true quest. And at any rate, it seems uncompleteable without a lot of dying.

Subraces: This is what really intrigued me when I rea the module description. Erhhh, where are they and how are they accessed? Ended up making another elf, in hopes of finding elven subraces, but nope, none there. This char would have been better off human.

Understand, I decided for once to try and make an uber char, instead of one of my flawed chars. Fighter/Barbarian. He shouldn't be such a door mat, what with his decent HP and BAB for low level. And the ability blast he got right out of the starting gate still annoys me, even though he's since recovered.


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## Greylock (Dec 22, 2004)

'K. Finally got two real quests. But both are beyond me. The easier seeming one was to go in the sewers and recover a doll. And I was promptly swallowed whole by a  Gelatinous Cube. How on oerth does a 3rd level Fighter/Barbarian go up against a Gelatinous Cube? This isn't a low magic world. It's a no magic world. 

Not that I mind so much, but spending so much time on getting food/water, crafting stushiteff no one will buy, loading up inventory page after inventory page with useless crap... *sigh*

Those of you who have gotten about a bit, where does one go for decently scaled battles, and vendors who will take misc crap? To get to 3rd level, I had to farm the heck out of some pixies [take THAT ya damn Quicklings]. I don't want to do that forever. If I am to get good encounters for the price of a boat ride, where should I head to?


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## Morrus (Dec 22, 2004)

I think that the suggested changes are going to be too much, I'm afraid.  Looks like this mod isn't suitable for us, either.

 I'm not sure we're going to find one, folks.  We're not having a lot of luck so far. Any more suggestions?


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## Greylock (Dec 22, 2004)

I don't think it's just me. It seems most everyone was digging Chainmail. Maybve we just need to give it another shot, or stick with PoA until CM is bug-free [however long it takes].


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## Morrus (Dec 22, 2004)

Both PoA and Chainmail have their share of people who dislike them, too - just like this one.  Chaz refuses to even play PoA these days!

 So, we've eliminated three modules.  There must be more somewhere out there.  Just gotta find 'em!


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## Greylock (Dec 22, 2004)

I can't go about randomly downloading PW mods. Simply don't have a decent enough connection. But I would surf NWV looking for suitable PW mods, if I knew what key-word to search by.


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## EN_blakman (Dec 22, 2004)

Morrus said:
			
		

> So, we've eliminated three modules.  There must be more somewhere out there.  Just gotta find 'em!




Yep, i had the same in my mind, searched NWV a bit and found the following:

http://nwvault.ign.com/Files/modules/data/1102854425000.shtml

After download and some very short playtesting (15 minutes):
- nice crafted areas
- a lot of areas
- lack of monsters (perhaps that was because i used a 40lvl char to wander around?)  
- stable

If you are interested i will try to test it a little bit further and give you feedback (try it with low lvl chars, investigating the merchants a bit more, etc.).

By the way, World of Lodor has it merits too (at least some):
- after finishing an easy quest, my char received better relationship with halflings (i would think that will be possible for all races/factions, it just needs some time and solving quests)
- cantrip and myself found some (hidden) places which you can explore when you have a rope (which we didn't, but that got me hooked up)
- cantrip (Bane) found some very heavy magic stuff, e.g. plate +14; so it isn't magicless (but he's an epic char, so all low levels have to wait a bit)
- cantrip and myself got an +2 magic hammer with acid damage, even if it may be that it wasn't intended for two 5lvl chars to get it

I think it just needs some low level dungeons in the vicinity of the starting locations and the players need a description of what to do/where to go for the first levels.

The intention of this mod is to go for the long run and don't give away too much at the beginning; so it's ok when i can't travel to all places at start and it's ok for me if i have to do some work to heighten my relationships with certain factions. If you have done that then it's even no problem anymore with merchants, banks, etc.
It's just the starting phase that needs a little bit of modding, i think. Healing potions for a low price for example, and/or some easy dungeons to lvl up; perhaps even let the death penalty begin after 5 instead after 3.

The only problem is that the factions still are a hindrance for party play for fresh chars; which is sad.


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## J-Buzz (Dec 22, 2004)

Morrus, what about changing the death penality, will that take too much effort to change?  (Actually I was planning on looking at that, but if you already looked into it...)  I really think that if changed then some of the other negatives would not seem that bad.  My feeling is at lower levels the new stuff piles up fast on characters with the factions, difficulty and death penality.

Currently my 6th lvl character is running around naked with no resources cause I took on an ogre lord....    It is annoying, but I find myself laughing cause you know exactly what happened when you see a naked character running around....they bit of more than they could chew....


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 22, 2004)

EN_blakman said:
			
		

> By the way, World of Lodor has it merits too (at least some):
> - after finishing an easy quest, my char received better relationship with halflings (i would think that will be possible for all races/factions, it just needs some time and solving quests)




How did you get the quest? They wont talk to me to give me quests.

I like this mod and maybe you have it right we just need documentation on where to go and what to do at least for low level chars. I don't like the faction thing I admit  but if we can somehow through quests change the relationship I think this may be a neat feature as opposed to an iritation. 

That leaves starting dificulty and selling loot. How hard would these be to change? Is each merchant a different code? Or can someone modify the script for goods sellers and this afect all of the merchants of this type?  If so you could script the goods type of merchant to buy everything but arms and armour, and magic stuff. Script the reagent sellers to buy magic items like potions and scrolls. Also before a character can enter the mod they need to step on that paltform. Couldn't some item be placed in that area that will level everyone to say 3rd level. This would save having to script in a leveler in every starting area. Also ehn on paltform it gives everyone the items for the mod and 100 gp. maybe boost this to say 200 gp then should be enough for a tank to kit out and 200 gp for a 3rd level char would be reasonable.


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## EN_blakman (Dec 22, 2004)

Felonious Ntent said:
			
		

> How did you get the quest? They wont talk to me to give me quests.




That's the funny thing.  
I'm a human and it was the quest that the Jeweller (in Aldur's Village) gives you regarding the mines. After finishing it some halfling relationships were raised from 0 to 30 (35?).
What i can't recall is: why? (have to look, perhaps the jeweller is a halfling).


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## J-Buzz (Dec 22, 2004)

Felonious Ntent said:
			
		

> How did you get the quest? They wont talk to me to give me quests.




Well not sure exactly where with the Druid you are playing.  With the Humans, once you reach 3rd Level you can talk to the Jeweler and he will give you a quest.  So from what I have heard once you have reached 3rd level there is a person in your starting town that should give you a quest to retrieve something.  Unless you have something else major going on with the factions, you should be able to find that quest in your starting village.

Hope this helps.

We posted same time.
I believe the Halfling faction increased cause you killed a named baddy.  I have noticed everytime that I have killed a named baddy a faction rep increases.


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## cantrip (Dec 22, 2004)

I'm not sure if the wood elf village has a similar quest available. It may be in the brownie tree...
Anyway with regards to halfing relations, I climbed from 30 to 44 almost accidentally, killing goblins in and around the Purgs. Also wood elves seem to be on good terms with nixies from the beginning. (no quests so far, but a place to sell gems)


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## Chaz (Dec 22, 2004)

Ok here is my suggestion for what to try next. Im really hoping that Chainmail will work out eventualy... 

Have we tried looking at Seviss Isle ver.4b yet? its the world that chainmail is based on. Is it stable? might be worth trying...

Also did we ever give The Land Of Nordock a test? I know a couple folks said they had tried it in other places... but I dont recall trying it. Is it stable? Can our exsisting chars be played in it? Might be worth a shot for all to try...

Main thing id like to see is be able to play existing chars as well as new ones we might want to make. 

Any thoughts on these PW's? Id like to have a look at them.

Peace


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## Greylock (Dec 22, 2004)

Like I said last night, my char got his first quest at third level, so maybe that's how it works. Not sure how I'm going to complete the quest, however, as the first critter I encountered overwhelmed me ;p.

The faction issues haven't hurt me yet, unless ticking off the orcs and pixies is going to haunt me at some point. 

Cantrip, how did you make a Wood Elf?


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 22, 2004)

J-Buzz said:
			
		

> Well not sure exactly where with the Druid you are playing.  With the Humans, once you reach 3rd Level you can talk to the Jeweler and he will give you a quest.  So from what I have heard once you have reached 3rd level there is a person in your starting town that should give you a quest to retrieve something.  Unless you have something else major going on with the factions, you should be able to find that quest in your starting village.
> 
> Hope this helps.
> 
> ...




I am a Sylvain. There is someone in my starting village who I believe will give me a quest eventualy but last time I talked to him I got no option in conversation other than nothign to say. the brownie village which si clsoe gave me a quest which I did. that is it for quests. I think I am going to try to reach the human village.


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## J-Buzz (Dec 22, 2004)

I would recommend using the book that the mod gives you (at least there was one in my inventory).  When you use the book you can check your faction standing.  So before going to the human villiage check your standing with them.  I know there is an area around the villiage that you can up your standing.  I have no idea what number is acceptable?  

I am curious to see if the jeweler gives you the quest (since you are not human).  If you get there and talk to the jeweler let me know what you find out.


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## cantrip (Dec 22, 2004)

There's more information at http://www.soznet.net/lodor/races.html
To creating a wood elf(Sylvan) you create an elf character, write in Sylvan as your subrace, and choose true neutral as your alignment. 
There may also be some restrictions on classes you may take. Allowed starting classes are bard, druid, fighter ranger or rogue. (Not sure if the mod will enforce these or not)


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 22, 2004)

cantrip said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if the wood elf village has a similar quest available. It may be in the brownie tree...
> Anyway with regards to halfing relations, I climbed from 30 to 44 almost accidentally, killing goblins in and around the Purgs. Also wood elves seem to be on good terms with nixies from the beginning. (no quests so far, but a place to sell gems)



Damn I was near the pixie area but didn't use transition as I never thought it would be a town. So I guess maybe I can see what happens to my faction attacking and killing the goblins near 1/2 lings. on way to this town.

Anyone else join a religion yet? What level were you?

In gremlin cave I found a staff that does +1 damage to constructs. When I insured it it was 0 gp to insure. I wonder if this is a quest item. Anyone get a quest to  find this?


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## Doshi (Dec 22, 2004)

Wow, I couldn't even hit the gremlin with my rogue-with-quarterstaff. I figured I'd get ***-kicked so I bugged out.  Guess I was just too shy after my first PC was gnawed on by wolves so frequently.


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## Greylock (Dec 22, 2004)

I've only found one altar so far. My alignment was unsuited to the gawd.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 22, 2004)

Doshi said:
			
		

> Wow, I couldn't even hit the gremlin with my rogue-with-quarterstaff. I figured I'd get ***-kicked so I bugged out.  Guess I was just too shy after my first PC was gnawed on by wolves so frequently.




This area helps when you ahve your Dire Wolf animal Companion and have a black bear under animal empathy. Combine that with the +1 sling I recieved by doing the brownie quest for the magic orb. This was a walkthrough and alot of wood for crafting by destroying the barrels and crates.



			
				Greylock said:
			
		

> I've only found one altar so far. My alignment was unsuited to the gawd.




I have found 2 for sure and proabley 3. I have found the Nature 1 and Thief one. I have found the dark tower I believe where one would become a Vampire as well.
I want the nature religion but even at 4th level when I pray there I am told I need to experience life more.


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## Wayfarer (Dec 23, 2004)

Well, Cantrip kept me alive long enough to actually see some of the world today. Thanks! 'Course I still died a thousand deaths and not yet 2nd lvl. 

Given the limited time I have to play, it sure would be nice to have a PC that can survive even one elementary encounter. Would it be so difficult to stick in a script so everyone starts at, say, 3rd lvl?

Couldn't get that quest from the brownies either since I'm such a rube.


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## Jesus_marley (Dec 23, 2004)

I have come to the realization after playing this mod that it is remarkably like Evercrack. Including the factions, suckass starting areas, horribly overpowered areas, remote starting areas, merchants that are useless, the need for food and water, unreasonable death penalties.... need I go on?

It was only after I played this mod that I remembered why I quit playing Everquest.... I can make do with it till somethig else is put up ( simply cuz I need my NWN fix and the you folks are cool) but I hope something better comes along ....

Once again, thanks Morrus for doing this. We appreciate the effort...


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## cmanos (Dec 23, 2004)

Intersting thing today.  Hobgoblin in the N of the Vegnar planes wasn't visible.  It attacked and I could attack it after it attacked me without penalty, but it just didn't show as visible.

Have played around with item creation.  Have created leather patches and leather armor torso, but don't know how to progress from there to make a suit of leather armor.

Still get my ass kicked by the cougars and lions.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 24, 2004)

Well last night I walked around the purgs killing Goblins and that increased my relationship with the 1/2lings. I can now talk to merchants and sell stuff. So factions are there but can easily be improved. That is one less issue for me. I am soon going to travel to the human village me thinks. I earned 400 gp enough for a return trip. Of course my rep with them is the same as my 1/2 ling rep to start was. I am going to experiment and find the enemy that will increase my relationship with the humans. My gut instinct tells me it'll be those kobolds. 

Questions:
1)Is there a merchant that buys jewelry?
2)What is the point of crafting. It cost me 7 gp all together to make leather armour but I could only sell it for 3. Can't make a profit on it.
3)Is there anyway to raise alchemy skill other than using it or egttign brew potion feat? I haven't seen it in the skill list.


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## cantrip (Dec 24, 2004)

The human village has a jeweler, but my rep was never high enough to really get him to interact with me(even as a human). I did find a merchant that buys absolutely anything except plot items. Chief Vrugar of the Vrugar orcs. Good luck trying to get on his good side

As for crafting, it's the easier way to get a longbow. Can't make a rapier that way though. And if you want to profit from crafting, you'll have to use light gems. A fault in the basic crafting system...


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 24, 2004)

cantrip said:
			
		

> The human village has a jeweler, but my rep was never high enough to really get him to interact with me(even as a human). I did find a merchant that buys absolutely anything except plot items. Chief Vrugar of the Vrugar orcs. Good luck trying to get on his good side
> 
> As for crafting, it's the easier way to get a longbow. Can't make a rapier that way though. And if you want to profit from crafting, you'll have to use light gems. A fault in the basic crafting system...



so far the only place I found that sells them is the nixies and they are 30 gp each. I sloted 1 in my large shield and I still get less for selling it than I can buy 1 for.


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## Greylock (Dec 25, 2004)

Finally did the deed. Loaded up my 8th level char.

I could do a lengthy review,  but I don't have the  patience or creativity pre-req's fulfilled.

All I can say is,  please, please Morrus....   Kill  this  mod. 


please


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## Morrus (Dec 25, 2004)

Greylock said:
			
		

> All I can say is, please, please Morrus.... Kill this mod.
> 
> 
> please



Certainly.  As long as you can all agree what to replace it with.


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## Felonious Ntent (Dec 25, 2004)

I'd say POA until such time as the next Chainmail update. Or alternatly we se if Chainmail will run more stable with 1.65.


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## Greylock (Dec 25, 2004)

To be honest, I'd rather go back to Chainmail, in all it's buggy glory. I know that isn't the popular choice, but that world really grabbed me in a way PoA never did.

I was forewarned about losing all gear and and gold when loading up my 8th level critter. What I didn't expect was how hard it would make things. I just wanted to finally get better than two screens from the elven village. 

Starting naked with 100 gp left me with a simple choice when visiting the armor merchant. Weapons, or armor. Didn't have enough gp for both. So I went with picking up a rapier and a dagger (DEX char, btw). Didn't figger on getting such hard spawns right off the bat. That, and I hoped to find a way to avoid faction issues with the orcs, who had tripled in number. No such luck. Pretty much got pasted right off the bat, which resulted in even less gp and xp. Couldn't even scrape up enough dough for simple leather armor in what time I was on.


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## Chaz (Dec 26, 2004)

Morrus... I think I saw where the Chainmail developer said one of the problems was probably taken care of in the patch.. Did you see this anywhere?

Anyway, Im all for Chainmail if others want it. 
But I agree with Morrus there is no guarentee how soon Chainmail 4 will be out. I think maybe we can get some pointers/tips from other downloaders of the MOD on the websites.  That may help us untill a new version comes out. But this is only a maybe. And will require some minor code adjustments most likely.

What ever Morrus decides is good with me.

Peace


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## Morrus (Dec 26, 2004)

Why don't we start a poll to find out what people want out of all the options available?  We can go with the most popular option.  Anyone want to start it?


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## Chaz (Dec 26, 2004)

Ok I will give it a shot... I will start it in a new thread to keep comments associated with the poll/topic together.

Peace


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## Jackylhunter (Dec 27, 2004)

For what it's worth, I don't think Lodor is too bad.  But the write-ups on Chainmail sound really cool.  Lets try that


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## Djeryv (Jan 4, 2005)

It seems that Lodor is just too tough for you guys to play.  You all sound like you just want a hack & slash server.  You guys should just play in the World of Rhun.  You can get it off the vault and there is just the default NWN death penalty and you all start in the same city.  You can even bring your local characters on board without losing stuff.

 - Djeryv


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## Greylock (Jan 5, 2005)

The hard-core rules, harsh death penalties, and racially spawned start-sites might work on a high-traffic server. This one is not. Your Lodor made RPed parties impossible. I see it was made as a reaction to other criticisms, but you really need to try to find some middle ground.

This bunch likes hack'n'slash, no doubt, but they RP with the best, when a suitable world is offered. The two aren't mutually exclusive.


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## Djeryv (Jan 5, 2005)

That is why I suggested "World of Rhun".  It is very hack and slash and you guys can use local vault characters and keep all your stuff.  You start in the same city and travel is a snap as you can find stones to teleport you around Rhun.  There is a priest who will send you back to where you died after you are resurrected.  There are recall portals and stones and there are 40 quests in the city.  Some real cool magic items that I made to for quest rewards.  The world has been stable for a long time now and no one has reported problems for about a year now.

 - Djeryv


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## Morrus (Jan 5, 2005)

Local vault characters?   Ugggh!

 I know this group tends to be a little on the hack/slash side at times (probably a result of using PoA for so long), but local vault is something I'd really not want to see on the server. 

  It sounds fairly cool other than that, though.

 Thanks for your input, Djeryv.  It's nice when people make the effort to see how their modules are being used elsewhere.


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## Djeryv (Jan 5, 2005)

Thanks.  Also...what I meant is that it is set for local vault but you can simply use server vault with no problems.  Many people do with Rhun.  What is the worst that can happen if you try it?  You guys might not like it and move to something else?  That is why NWN is so cool.  There is tons of stuff out there to play for free.  Rhun is alot easier to make changes to also in case you guys are going to mod it more or change some rules to it.

 - Djeryv


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