# So who saw the Doctor Who Xmas Special?



## Morrus (Dec 26, 2017)

Watched it earlier tonight. So, it's official - the regeneration has happened. The Doctor is now officially Jodie Whitaker!

I thought the opening was really clever; the way it merged _The Tenth Planet_ with this episode. While Bradley doesn't really look like Hartnell, he carries his essence well. He's also 20 years older than Hartnell was!

The "villain" (not really a villain) was a bit meh. Plot device. And the Dalek who was the Doctor's worst enemy and who maintained the greatest database in the universe? Also a bit "eh?"

Mark Gatiss. I'm not a massive fan of his, to be honest. He did OK. I liked the "WW1?" reference. Other than that he was pretty incidental.

There wasn't really a plot to this. It was just about the 12th Doctor persuading the 1st that it's OK to regenerate, and the 1st persuading the 12th the same. The interaction was the meat of the episode; the jokes about the 1st Doctor's attitudes towards women were a little clumsy, but given that he was about to become a woman, perhaps necessary.

"Escape is impossible!" -- actually, apparently it's really easy. One click of the sonic screwdriver to lower the chain. 

Regeneration sequence. My head-canon says that the older he gets the more violent the regenerations get. The last few seem to cause a lot of damage around him (the TARDIS this time, and the 10th's regen, too). He really should be more sensible and regenerate outside the TARDIS.

New Doctor's first words? I predicted "Still not ginger!"; we got "Brilliant!" 

(Please review the rules of this site before replying).


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## MarkB (Dec 26, 2017)

It felt far more like a series of attempts to be clever and self-referential with the show's accumulated backstory than an actual interesting story in its own right.

Christmas Specials and Regeneration episodes are the ones that draw in a wider general audience, so when doing both at the same time it seems like it would be a good idea to try and make the story reasonably accessible. That's certainly not what this felt like. I've been a dedicated viewer of the series since Tom Baker's era, and there were a few references that flew past me, so goodness knows what it must be like for someone tuning in for the first time.

Honestly, I really hope they go back to prioritising just good storytelling in the next series. Yes, keep all the rich backstory and all the clever touches, but start from the foundation of a good story and add in those elements afterwards. Don't make it feel like the story was the part that was tacked on at the last minute.

Also, the entire episode pokes fun at the first Doctor's old-fashioned chauvinistic attitudes, and then they have the first act of the first female Doctor being to crash the TARDIS the first time she tries to drive it. I feel like that's a mixed message.


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## Morrus (Dec 26, 2017)

MarkB said:


> Also, the entire episode pokes fun at the first Doctor's old-fashioned chauvinistic attitudes, and then they have the first act of the first female Doctor being to crash the TARDIS the first time she tries to drive it. I feel like that's a mixed message.




I agree it's a bad visual. I'm sure it was more short-sighted than intentional, though - Matt Smith crashed the TRADIS, and Capaldi had to ask Clara how to fly it. I think they've kinda settled into a "new Doctor can't fly TARDIS at first" meme each time now. I think if they were to choose somebody to change that meme, it should have been this regeneration.

I'm left kinda wondering if Chibnall wants to do a TARDIS-free single-story season; more _Broadchurch_ than episodic. He'd need to get rid of the TARDIS at least temporarily to do that.


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## MarkB (Dec 26, 2017)

Morrus said:


> I'm left kinda wondering if Chibnall wants to do a TARDIS-free single-story season; more _Broadchurch_ than episodic. He'd need to get rid of the TARDIS at least temporarily to do that.




Certainly a possibility, though some of the publicity photos for the thirteenth Doctor do seem to include a new TARDIS prop, or at least artwork thereof, so hopefully she won't be without it for too long.


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## Janx (Dec 26, 2017)

It had a beginning, middle, and End.  Not sure if it really had a setback, but otherwise, seemed kind of like a story.

Not sure if puddle girl was part of this see-thru people backup project and Bill joined, or if that was separate and then eons later, Bill died again and got backed up.

Or if the backup people screwed up and backed up Lethbridge wrongly, since he seems to have come out OK since it was the x-mas truce.


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## Richards (Dec 26, 2017)

My thoughts:

It seems kind of strange that a time-traveling group from the future who "rescues, downloads, and returns" people as they're dying has never once been encountered by the Doctor before.  How many people has he seen die over the many, many years of his existence and this has never come up?  (Also, where are they planning on putting every person who has ever lived throughout billions of years of history?  The universe is going to be a pretty crowded place once they're done....)

I thought the guy playing the First Doctor did a good job of it.

And boy, those are some nimble Kaled mutants!  I remember when they pretty much just sat there like a blob and wriggled their tentacles a bit; now they're scurrying about like rats on a caffeine overdose.

I couldn't make out the new Doctor's first words, so thanks, Morrus, for the clarification.

Johnathan


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## Morrus (Dec 26, 2017)

Richards said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> It seems kind of strange that a time-traveling group from the future who "rescues, downloads, and returns" people as they're dying has never once been encountered by the Doctor before.




I think that’s just one of the things you have to accept; otherwise they can never introduce a new alien like that. As the series gets longer, the more you have to suspend your disbelief for stuff like that.


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## Tonguez (Dec 26, 2017)

MarkB said:


> Also, the entire episode pokes fun at the first Doctor's old-fashioned chauvinistic attitudes, and then they have the first act of the first female Doctor being to crash the TARDIS the first time she tries to drive it. I feel like that's a mixed message.




yep, first thing I thought. What the new doctor can't drive because She's a woman? Lol Not Funny

I did like the way the Hartnell b&w stuff was transitioned over to the colour remake and although the overall plot was a bit meh, at least I didn't get bored. I'm not sure why they brought Bill back or Clara or Nardole and even the Gatiss character was a bit naff (although having him be a Leftbridge-Stewart did make me smile.)

It was nice, a pleasant change from the frenetic pace that Doctor Who can reach, but just nice.

I don't like the newish 'explosive' regenerations they've been having and was hoping that Capaldi's transition would go back to the original soft light regens (maybe even mirror Hartnells own) - for a short moment I actually thought the transparent humanoid was going to be the new Watcher like in Logopolis, the female form being a hint to the next regeneration that was being resisted. Alas that was not the story being told...


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## Morrus (Dec 26, 2017)

I didn’t really get why that Dalek is at the centre of the universe. It’s the one from the episode where the Doctor is miniaturised. For some reason he’s now at the centre of the universe and is the Doctor’s greatest enemy.  I think I need a second viewing!


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## hopeless (Dec 26, 2017)

Well...


Spoiler



1) Both 1st and 12th were dying, meeting up like they did clearly caused the anomaly which probably means it was set in time to happen,
2) Lethbridge Stewart introduction anyone?
3) That Daleks clearly has access to an unimpeded database since Clara's efforts to erase the Doctor clearly didn't work when the Doctor "inspired" that Daleks to wage war on its own kind
4) She isn't the first incarnation to suffer from that problem so it wasn't a play on that either!
5) How many times has the TARDIS suffered that much damage?



Hope the above works!


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## Ryujin (Dec 26, 2017)

Morrus said:


> I think that’s just one of the things you have to accept; otherwise they can never introduce a new alien like that. As the series gets longer, the more you have to suspend your disbelief for stuff like that.




I just take it as things have changed, largely due to the actions of The Doctor himself, so new things appearing is the norm.

I found this special to be rather clumsily done though I did enjoy it, as always. I think that perhaps they were a little ham-fisted at portending the first female doctor through the episode.


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## Jester David (Dec 27, 2017)

*Brilliant is the new Fantastic*

The special was certainly a character story more than a plot story. But the character interactions and banter were excellent, and it was amusing to see them lampshade the first Doctor's 1960s chauvinism. 
Really, trying to cram a denser plot into things would have almost been awkward and just cut out some of the fun bits. And honestly, I adore the sudden realisation that there's "not an evil plan".

I've seen _Doctor Who_ described as being a rollercoaster. The fun is the ride and not the destination or anticipating the twists & turns. This episode is a good example. 

I'm a fan for how they handled the return of Bill. She didn't become re-fleshed. She didn't break-up with Puddle Girl. (Heather?) They didn't pull a Clara and un-kill her. Nope, she was dead and this was just a super advanced robot with her memories
Oh, man, and when the WWI soldier revealed himself to be the Brigadier's father... all the feels. And the Christmas truce was a lovely example of how to use the season to the advantage of the story. This wasn't set at Christmas just because that's when the episode aired, but there was an actual reason.

The end was interesting. I enjoyed that Doctor Twelve didn't try to become female. Intent wasn't implied (and thus, it avoided the idea that the previous twelve rejected the idea of being female). His final speech was nice and dramatic. Some good quotable lines and wisdom, but not the heart wrenching affair that was the Doctor Ten or Doctor Eleventh's farewells. They did milk the "reveal" that he was now a she, slowly revealing the face rather than the abrupt change of past regenerations. Like you couldn't instantly tell by the eyes. There were some nice dramatic shots (the ring falling off and such) but that certainly took some time away from seeing her reaction and getting a few more lines in.

I did also note the amusing hypocrisy of having the first female Doctor be unable to drive. But, Matt Smith and Capaldi both crashed the TARDIS initially. And it makes for a fun dramatic cliffhanger without locking in the next creative to a set story or villain. (As for blowing up the TARDIS, that does give the easy out for the next team to come in and update the sets.)
The first episode of the new season could start with the Doctor falling and the TARDIS materialising below & catching them, and then moving on without a missed beat. Or it could have the Doctor land in a river, being found, and having to save the day with no TARDIS or screwdriver or potentially even knowledge of whom they are. (It also leads into a nice potential set-up of having the Companion just find the Doctor and help them, spacing out introductions to elements of the show for new viewers.)

---edit---
"Hate is always foolish; love is always wise. Always try to be nice, but never fail to be kind." 

Great words to live by.


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## Morrus (Dec 27, 2017)

Last words...
————————-

Never be cruel, never be cowardly. And never ever eat pears! 

Remember – hate is always foolish…and love, is always wise.

Always try, to be nice and never fail to be kind. 

Oh, and….and you mustn’t tell anyone your name. No-one would understand it anyway. 

Except….children. Children can hear it. Sometimes – if their hearts are in the right place, and the stars are too. Children can hear your name.

But nobody else. Nobody else. Ever.

Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.

Doctor – I let you go.


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## jonesy (Dec 28, 2017)

The episode aired here yesterday. It was brilliant.

I didn't get the idea that she could not drive the Tardis, or that she somehow broke it. Twelve was the one who broke it.


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## Morrus (Dec 28, 2017)

Jester David said:


> Oh, man, and when the WWI soldier revealed himself to be the Brigadier's father... all the feels.




Grandfather, I think. Or Nicholas Courtney looked really good for his age in the 70s! 

Edit - this page says great uncle:
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/Archibald_Hamish_Lethbridge-Stewart


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## billd91 (Dec 28, 2017)

Tonguez said:


> yep, first thing I thought. What the new doctor can't drive because She's a woman? Lol Not Funny
> 
> <snip>
> 
> I don't like the newish 'explosive' regenerations they've been having and was hoping that Capaldi's transition would go back to the original soft light regens (maybe even mirror Hartnells own) - for a short moment I actually thought the transparent humanoid was going to be the new Watcher like in Logopolis, the female form being a hint to the next regeneration that was being resisted. Alas that was not the story being told...




It's not like she really had much of a chance to try to fly the TARDIS before it was knocking her about and blowing her out the door. I figure it's a chance to end the Xmas special with a cliffhanger and start the first episode in the middle of action rather than implied commentary on women drivers.
That said, perhaps they are overdoing the violence of-/trouble with the TARDIS during- regeneration as tropes and could stand to dial them back a bit.


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## MarkB (Dec 28, 2017)

billd91 said:


> It's not like she really had much of a chance to try to fly the TARDIS before it was knocking her about and blowing her out the door. I figure it's a chance to end the Xmas special with a cliffhanger and start the first episode in the middle of action rather than implied commentary on women drivers.
> That said, perhaps they are overdoing the violence of-/trouble with the TARDIS during- regeneration as tropes and could stand to dial them back a bit.




To be fair, the Cloister Bell was already chiming before the regeneration, suggesting some serious issues, so yeah, things were likely already going wrong, and the extra damage caused by the regeneration energy may not even have been the main issue. It was just a somewhat unfortunate juxtaposition.


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## Morrus (Dec 28, 2017)

Tonguez said:


> yep, first thing I thought. What the new doctor can't drive because She's a woman? Lol Not Funny




That's harsh. I don't think they meant that *at all*. Matt Smith crashed the TARDIS, and Capaldi had to ask Clara how to drive it; they just do that with new regenerations now. River Song knows better than the Doctor how to drive it. There is no "woman driver" nonsense going on here.

If I had to guess, I think Chibnall wants to get rid of the TARDIS for a while and do an Earthbound story arc, possibly where she's looking for it.


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## Tonguez (Dec 28, 2017)

Morrus said:


> That's harsh. I don't think they meant that *at all*. Matt Smith crashed the TARDIS, and Capaldi had to ask Clara how to drive it; they just do that with new regenerations now. River Song knows better than the Doctor how to drive it. There is no "woman driver" nonsense going on here.
> 
> If I had to guess, I think Chibnall wants to get rid of the TARDIS for a while and do an Earthbound story arc, possibly where she's looking for it.




yeah, I don't think it was an intentional commentary, just not thought through.

and for comparison when Matt Smith crashed the Tardis he at least managed to hold on to it and climb back inside, he even made a few tries to 'steer' it before it crashed in Amelia Ponds garden, Jodie Whittaker didn't even get a chance to comedically try and get control, she just got dumped out the door and left to fall while the Tardis burns


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## Morrus (Dec 28, 2017)

Tonguez said:


> yeah, I don't think it was an intentional commentary, just not thought through.
> 
> and for comparison when Matt Smith crashed the Tardis he at least managed to hold on to it and climb back inside, he even made a few tries to 'steer' it before it crashed in Amelia Ponds garden, Jodie Whittaker didn't even get a chance to comedically try and get control, she just got dumped out the door and left to fall while the Tardis burns




Well, yeah - when I said they've done that with the last three Doctors I didn't mean they'd used the exact same script for each. They each get a variation on crashing/being unable to fly the TARDIS. And, of course, the first Doctor pretty much *can't* fly it. Blames it on the navigation system.

I mean, they've cast Jodie Whittaker as the Doctor!


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## Morrus (Dec 28, 2017)

I found it interesting that she's kept her Yorkshire accent. I've heard her do other accents, so she could have done a more generic or London accent, but they're keeping the Yorkshire (well, at least they did for her two words).


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Dec 29, 2017)

I kinda expected that the soldier might be connected to our dear Brigadier... 

The whole Christmas Truce miracle.. i suspected it might be heading there, because I heard the story about it before... But damn, the Doctor still played me like a fiddle!

Truthfully, it's not like really much happened. There were no villains to stop, there was just a small technical issue with the timeline that was really no one one's fault. But that was fine to me.


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## Tonguez (Dec 29, 2017)

Morrus said:


> I found it interesting that she's kept her Yorkshire accent. I've heard her do other accents, so she could have done a more generic or London accent, but they're keeping the Yorkshire (well, at least they did for her two words).




I thought that was a 'Thing' now, the Doctors can keep their 'ethnic' accents They've done Scottish accents to buggery and now they're moving south again


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## Morrus (Dec 29, 2017)

Tonguez said:


> I thought that was a 'Thing' now, the Doctors can keep their 'ethnic' accents They've done Scottish accents to buggery and now they're moving south again




Is it? Tennant didn’t. Capaldi did. 1:1!


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## MarkB (Dec 29, 2017)

Morrus said:


> Is it? Tennant didn’t. Capaldi did. 1:1!




Eccleston did. They had the whole "lots of planets have a north!" conversation.


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## Morrus (Dec 29, 2017)

MarkB said:


> Eccleston did. They had the whole "lots of planets have a north!" conversation.




I was referring to the Scottish accents. Of the two who had them, one did an English accent.


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## MarkB (Dec 29, 2017)

Morrus said:


> I was referring to the Scottish accents.




You're alone then. This discussion, which you began, is about regional accents. Unless Yorkshire has become part of Scotland since I last checked.


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## Morrus (Dec 29, 2017)

MarkB said:


> You're alone then. This discussion, which you began, is about regional accents. Unless Yorkshire has become part of Scotland since I last checked.




Huh? I replied to one person when said”they’ve  done Scottish accents to buggery” with a comment about the Scottish accents.


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## Richards (Dec 29, 2017)

David Tennant got to put his Scottish accent to good use in his "Tooth and Claw" episode, when he and Rose were in Scotland.  Sure, it was just the one episode (and not all of it at that), but it's not like he never got to use it.

Johnathan


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## wicked cool (Jan 2, 2018)

I thought the best part was the first dr. I felt like he stole the show. He was the best actor on the set 

 I've tried going back  watching some of those episodes from the 60's but the special effects have not aged well and I've lost the appetite for back and white tv.  David bradley basically acting like a guys right out of the 60's was brilliant. If they did  a recast and had some further adventures of the first DR I would watch and I plan on looking into the audio finishes  

I'm going to give the new Dr a shot but its got a short leash . If this turns into the Sarah Jane adventures I will be done with it


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## Morrus (Jan 2, 2018)

wicked cool said:


> If this turns into the Sarah Jane adventures I will be done with it




What an odd thing to say.


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## wicked cool (Jan 2, 2018)

Sarah Jane adventures (she was great as a companion) was a poor offshoot of who. Characters and storyline marketed towards children with horrible special affects etc. If this becomes something I would watch on Disney/wb and it loses quality then I'm out. If it improves on Capaldi storyline then i'm staying. Capaldi was great for the role but for the most part the storylines were not as good as Smith/tenant


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## Morrus (Jan 2, 2018)

I know what it is! It was a half hour kids programme, mainly starring children, shown on CBeebies (a children’s TV channel) at tea time. Why on Earth you think they’d change a flagship prime time BBC1 show into a half hour CBeebies tea time show starring children is completely beyond me. That’s why I thought it was such an odd thing to say.


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## Eltab (Jan 3, 2018)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I kinda expected that the soldier might be connected to our dear Brigadier...
> 
> The whole Christmas Truce miracle..



If the Doctor ever encounters a complete jerk who needs to be persuaded to do something helpful, giving them an overhead view of the soccer game amid the trenches would be a good place to start.

And I liked the Brigadier's dad/uncle/next-door-neighbor being there.  History IS connected, after all.


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## Hussar (Jan 18, 2018)

I had a bit of a thought about the whole "female Doctor's can't drive" thing.

Before he regenerates, the Capaldi Doctor is having a conversation with the TARDIS and it's talking back.  There's already been the "Doctor's Wife" episode where the TARDIS is revealed to be female.  I kinda wondered if the TARDIS didn't chuck the Doctor out the door for regenerating as a woman.

I dunno.  Probably just a weird thought, but, it was one I had.


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## Janx (Jan 18, 2018)

Morrus said:


> I know what it is! It was a half hour kids programme, mainly starring children, shown on CBeebies (a children’s TV channel) at tea time. Why on Earth you think they’d change a flagship prime time BBC1 show into a half hour CBeebies tea time show starring children is completely beyond me. That’s why I thought it was such an odd thing to say.




Aha!

You just acknowledged that there is Tea Time!

I don't know where I'm going with that, it's from another, sillier thread.  But if you could act shocked, like I caught you red-handed or something that would be helpful.  Or just confuse me with an explanation on how the People of England (as comprised of Morrus) do not take tea, but enjoy knowing there could be time for it, perhaps with the aid of their Doctor.


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## MarkB (Jan 19, 2018)

Janx said:


> Aha!
> 
> You just acknowledged that there is Tea Time!
> 
> I don't know where I'm going with that, it's from another, sillier thread.  But if you could act shocked, like I caught you red-handed or something that would be helpful.  Or just confuse me with an explanation on how the People of England (as comprised of Morrus) do not take tea, but enjoy knowing there could be time for it, perhaps with the aid of their Doctor.




To be fair, we made up 'tea time' purely to confuse foreigners (mainly the French). To us, it's a null concept - the existence of a specific 'tea time' would require that it could somehow ever _not_ be time for tea.


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## Tonguez (Jan 19, 2018)

Hussar said:


> I had a bit of a thought about the whole "female Doctor's can't drive" thing.
> 
> Before he regenerates, the Capaldi Doctor is having a conversation with the TARDIS and it's talking back.  There's already been the "Doctor's Wife" episode where the TARDIS is revealed to be female.  I kinda wondered if the TARDIS didn't chuck the Doctor out the door for regenerating as a woman.
> 
> I dunno.  Probably just a weird thought, but, it was one I had.




I had a similar thought (though slightly more salacious) back when they made the announcement viz "its been implied both that the TARDIS loves the Doctor and that the TARDIS is female, so are they going to explore that relationship further? How is the TARDIS going to react to having another woman at the Helm?" 

Of course its also been made clear that Timelords don't care about gender issues so maybe there's nothing to explore


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Jan 19, 2018)

I have to say that last season of Who really dampened my enthusiasm for the TV show version.  Felt at times like it was trying too hard to play a political angle.  But mostly the plots were pretty bad. I had such high hopes for Moffat but in the end he was better in small doses as a writer than as a show runner.  Capaldi is how I envision a Doctor but ultimately he fell flat as well due to weak scripts.  Though I admittedly always had a love/hate relationship with the relaunched series due to the companion focus.   Thankfully there is always Big Finish for a Who fix.


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## Morrus (Jan 19, 2018)

Flexor the Mighty! said:


> I have to say that last season of Who really dampened my enthusiasm for the TV show version.  Felt at times like it was trying too hard to play a political angle.  But mostly the plots were pretty bad. I had such high hopes for Moffat but in the end he was better in small doses as a writer than as a show runner.  Capaldi is how I envision a Doctor but ultimately he fell flat as well due to weak scripts.  Though I admittedly always had a love/hate relationship with the relaunched series due to the companion focus.   Thankfully there is always Big Finish for a Who fix.




You are the Opposite Me. It was the strongest season in a few years for me. Bill was excellent (way better than Clara, who I always found tedious) and Capaldi got chance to act. Loved it!


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## TylerDenton (Jan 23, 2018)

MarkB said:


> To be fair, we made up 'tea time' purely to confuse foreigners (mainly the French). To us, it's a null concept - the existence of a specific 'tea time' would require that it could somehow ever more time for tea.




My thoughts exactly!


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## delericho (Jan 23, 2018)

I thought the Christmas Special was pretty good, though it was _very_ self-referential. But...

I kinda wish they'd stop doing the regeneration story at Christmas (or New Year, in the case of DT) - by doing that, they place the entire focus of the episode on the big upcoming change, and as a result take it off the rest of the story. As it was, it felt like everything else was a prologue to the 'real' story that happened in the last minute or so, and I felt that in doing so they did a disservice to that particular bit of real-world history.

(That said, it was still better than last year's effort. Most things are.)


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