# From the Ground Up - Building a Game Company



## Eosin the Red (Mar 30, 2004)

From the Ground Up!

Awhile back, I suggested to Morrus and Joseph Goodman that a good article for the Enworld Magazine would be the “Making of a Setting” series – where in an intrepid young homebrewer was given the possibility to make their homebrew game world into a true blue setting. The devil is in the details so they say, and the catch here is that the lucky (or unlucky) soul would be required to keep Enworld appraised of their progress as things went forward.

Never one to let a good idea go to waste, I decided I would take myself up on the offer. This is my little journal of creating a game company, creating a game world and the disasters that are sure to ensue. If you like rubbernecking, this is your sort of place. 

I came up with this hairball idea on March 12th and the first thing I did was pitch it to a sucker…I mean partner.

Tune in soon for “Do you want to dance?” and “What is the name of that song?”


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## Sir Elton (Mar 30, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> From the Ground Up!
> 
> Tune in soon for “Do you want to dance?” and “What is the name of that song?”




Eosin,

I'm probably in the same boat.  I'm actually getting a business degree so that I can run an RPG company in the "moonlight."  The idea behind my company is that I already have game world: Earth.   I want to write and sell modules based around a local, a period of history, or a theme set on Earth.  I thought it would be cool.


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 30, 2004)

*Udate 1.5 - Why now?*

Why now?
It’s sorta funny the way this all came together and has some small bearing on our story. I had made two decisions in the last month that were key to this – the first is having Dr Midnight of Enworld fame design a banner for my Wheel of Time site and the second was having Clay of Morningstar maps draw a region of my homebrew. This is doubly funny since most consider me an excellent cartographer but I am much too critical of my own stuff.

So here I am shelling out money to make my homebrew stuff look professional. I had also plunged into a brand new campaign and things were really clicking together well. I was inspired to “re-imagine” my fantasy world because of a few threads here on Enworld; the ones that have to do with the “origins of monsters,” the numerous “best way to start a game threads” and the various threads on the “rightful place of magic in D&D” also known as high magic vs. low magic and grim and gritty stuff. I had done buckets of research and brainstorming some of which uncovered some real gems, if I do say so myself.

Money, time, and effort. I was putting as much into this as any other print of PDF product. Why not make it one? Why not? Being an adult with adult responsibilities, I had to consult the wife before any decisions were finalized. I told her my ideas, I bribed her by watching our 3 children letting her get some personal things done, I promised golden toilets when I got rich and famous and in the end, I wooed her over. That must mean she knows nothing of RPG publishing


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 30, 2004)

*Do you want to dance - update 2.0*

Do you want to dance?

Being a bear of little intelligence and even less courage, the very first idea in the little bears brain was to find someone to share the risk with and to commiserate. 

I looked among my friends many of whom had often said “Dude, I could do this better!” I needed something different than a friend who would cheer me on like I was bench-pressing. I have run what I believe to be a decent website for several years now and had met a few people who had submitted stuff for Wheel of Time or helped me on a Netbook or two. The problem with this was that most of those folks were only interested in Wheel of Time.

I decided to contact Quillion who has decided to branch out and was submitting to several open calls. Rules wise he is pretty solid, like me his writing is good but could be better, especially if we had mastered grammar and spelling, and most importantly he brings a different style of game design-theory to the table. He tends to run fantastical things while I run mundane things. A good mix. Luckily, he fell for it and signed on board for the duration.

*I hope that I can get us into current time quickly and then do daily updates.*


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## Salad Shooter (Mar 30, 2004)

Hope everything goes well for you. A little over a year ago a friend of mine and I had the brainiac idea to create our own world, with possibly posting PDFs of it on the web...now...200 pages or so later, its well on its way to going to the publisher to become an honest to god book. And we have book 2 in the creation stages. Just stick to it, and don't be afraid to enlist the help of others...


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 30, 2004)

*The Name of that Tune*

What is the Name of that Tune?

The first real conversation after “Dude that is Kewl” turned to one of “Ok, what do we do now?” When going into business you have to consider many things, none of which my degree in nursing prepared me for. Let us review them quickly:

1.	A name?
2.	Start up funding.
3.	What do you mean S or C, perhaps an L.L.C. or dba? The gritty world of incorporation.
4.	State of origin, federal id numbers.
5.	Corporate organization.
6.	The Power of the Law – yeap, got to speak with a lawyer.
7.	Point of sale? PDF or Print and the costs for each.
8.	Work for hire or freelance for art and writing.
9.	Contracts? I don’t know nothing about contracts.
10.	Need a webpage.
11.	Hey that is a cool webpage, is it OGL and d20 STL compliant.
12.	Speaking of OGL – have you read it lately and do you understand it?
13.	Product schedule.
14.	Speaking of product – what the heck are we going to write.

1. This was the initial conversation between Quillon and myself. We did settle on a name – Pencil Pushers Publishing. There were several others and several variants considered but in the end this seemed like a good name that could scale well. I really wanted to avoid the feel of a small PDF company. Did it work?

2. Start up funding – well, I scrounged together several hundred dollars.

[Pitifully short sighted for all of our start up expenses. I needed a PDF program, Domain Name, Money for Maps, Money for artists, Editors, and Layout folks. Now it is time to go talk to my investors (yes, believe it or not I have an investor – I have been putting this one off since I don’t know what kind of deal to offer him.)]

Side notes: It was helpful to read the PDF forum here and the Freelancers forum at RPG.net. The best tool however is the 19.95 PDF from RPG now called e-publishing.    


Now that I had some of the questions, it was time to do some research to find some of the answers. In the mean time, I needed to get a logo design and settle on the web design. I also needed a few computer programs – pagemaker 7.0, I did some DTP with Pagemaker 6.0 several years ago – I hope the learning curve is not that steep. The second big hickey was Photoshop. These two, plus the various $20.00 nickel and diming items have busted the bankroll. 

The 12th-15th were spent embroiled in these decisions and reading up on the various forums about publishing. 

E-Publishing answered many of the questions and is an invaluable resource. The other great resource is reading the sometimes boring technical conversations on the PDF forums here at ENworld. Many of the folks are helpful and if you read many of your questions have already been answered.

I am still in the process of answering many of the other questions. I can say that Pencil Pushers website will come online the 7th of April and that we will be offering a introductory free product.

Find out what happens when I make first contact with the enemy (that would be the artsy guys).

Three or four more of these and I should be up to current time.


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 30, 2004)

*First Contact or Art For Sale!*

First Contact

I am a neophyte in the art world. I mean, I don’t know jack. Lucky for me the fist two people I bumped into were darn helpful. First, like I mentioned earlier, I needed a map. I debated the possibilities and settled between two cartographers – Christopher West  and Morningstar Maps. Christopher West tends to do more small location maps with very few large regional maps and truthfully, I suspected he might be a little rich for my blood. I had spoken to Clayton several times in the past when he started up Morningstar and his mapping is top notch. He also saved me some guesswork by listing his basic prices.

I wrote to Clayton and he is a swell fella. We talked about contracts since I asked fairly bluntly what type he preferred and he mentioned that he had a basic one. We discussed finances, one of the bummers about being new is that I need to put more upfront than someone who has established a reputation. It was nice speaking to someone as a regular fella since I am not real good at professional lingo, after all I call most of my customers “Honey” and I wear pajamas to work. I am more than just a little laid back. Clayton accommodated that well.

Next I wrote to Storn Cook. This took several days and when I got no reply after seven days, I sent a reminder note. Storn is also a really nice guy who indicated that he had responded to me earlier. So much for trusting my e-mail account. Storn gave me his basic prices but indicated that he was too busy to tackle my assignment right now. Rather than just head on down the road, I asked for suggestions. He recommends an open call at RPG.net Freelancers Forum.

I should mention that I am averse to telling good people “no.” A personality defect of mine that has proven bothersome at times, it was for this reason that I approached individual artists in the first place. I do have a cardinal rule in life – when you ask a pro for his advice about his profession, it is best to assume that some divinely inspired insight of your own is probably* not* as well thought out as the “Professional Opinion” after all they call them professional opinions for a reason. So, I found myself registering on RPG.net, I lurk there occasionally but had never posted before.

I placed this ad on Thursday:



> Hey Everyone,
> 
> I am looking for some art.
> 
> ...




Man was I overwhelmed. I got close to 30 submissions. I found out something weird in the process. I sent each person an e-mail thanking them for their submission and confirming that I had received it. Some of the artists were quite surprised that I had bothered to respond to them. To be honest, it was a pain in the kiester. Writing notes to a couple dozen artists took up a great portion of my allotted work time for several days. I guess that not many folks send confirmation letters.

You might also notice a few lessons to be learned in my ad – I never included my real name. That was a little embarrassing. I am always Eosin on the net cause there are no other Eosin’s but probably not the correct way to introduce yourself to professionals. Some people are also reluctant to send emails to you but feel perfectly fine posting to a message board? I can grok that.

I sent everyone the little note and gave myself until Monday to make the decision. That was not enough time. Yes, I have already made my decision and it is posted over at PRG.net but stick around here and find out some of the pains of making decisions between a horde of talented people.


Next article: You want HOW MUCH! Subtitled: “Honey, I just checked our bank statement. How much was this game stuff going to cost?”


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## Derulbaskul (Mar 31, 2004)

If you're going to be a PDF publisher I would possibly suggest incorporating your company in the BVI or somewhere similar. That way you don't have to worry about filing accounts or paying tax. If the company grew to the point where it became a full-time job, you could simply become an independent contractor to the company and pay taxes on your now official salary.

In addition, a company like this provides you with a fair amount of protection from the sheer litigiousness of modern US society because if someone sues it because they fell over a copy of something the company published or got a nasty paper cut... let 'em! It will take them forever just to do the searches!

Of course, these are just brief comments by someone who is not familiar with US tax law but who does these sorts of structures in the course of his normal business.


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## Mark (Mar 31, 2004)

Go Big Red!  Good luck with your new venture!


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## Aristotle (Mar 31, 2004)

I saw your advert over on rpg.net, good for you that you are serious about this and going ahead with it. I was over there shopping around for talented artists myself. I'm attempting to put my homebrew down on paper and sell it as a campaign setting. I'm a decent enough artist, but I'm hoping to get someone a little more refined to give my product a professional look.

I'd also be interested to hear what tools you use (my standard question to most people). I've got InDesign and Acrobat on the way... I'll be using them to put together the finished product. I tend to work things up in notepad (the plain text keeps me focused on the content).

I'm planning to do the writing and layout myself. I'm considering using contracted artists for cartography and art. I'd really like to find someone (who works cheap!) to do some proof reading and light editing. Heh... maybe some of us upstarts should form a little coalition and help each other out with some of the little details. 

Good show, keep us updated!


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 31, 2004)

*You want HOW MUCH*

You want how much!!

So lets talk about the price to produce a quality piece of gaming action for your average bloke. Art is a big piece of your expense; I mean a big piece. The way in which you greet the world is the cover. A bad cover often prevents me from even picking up a module or setting. 

Covers run the gamut from $50 up to more than a $1,000.00 and I suspect that some people like Bron, Terese Nielson, and Lockwood would charge even higher. Can anyone ballpark one of these biggies?

Let’s face it if you bomb on the cover, you start the game fourth and long. I did not scrimp here but I also did not go with the highest person.

Interior art. This is the strange thing about art – I love the feel of a game when it has consistent art. Dark Sun, Original 7th Sea, and similar products stand out in part due to a uniform look. I want this – I suppose some business major would call it branding. I want a certain style of art identified with our products. It is much harder to find “a style” than a good artist. Most of the people whom I did not select for the art were very good. Some were flat out amazing but their work just did not have the flair I was looking to put into my products. The good guys are $25.00 to $50.00 per ¼ page. They know they are good and by goodness, they deserve to be paid based on quality. That is a real hurdle for a PDF company. Just do a little math and you will start to see how bleak this becomes? 

There are other sources of art, but I recon there is only ONE first product. In today’s RPG atmosphere, you only get the chance to win a customer once. Important lesson – if you are serious about doing this and jumping into the “biggies” expect to take a financial pounding on the first product or two. If we can jump to print then this is much less burdensome since the level of the art is already “printable.”

Total art bill for the first project, including maps is going to bury me at or around $800.00 to 1,000.00 dollars. That is on a project that I plan to make $1050.00 over the course of 3-4 months and any PDF people will tell you that what I am banking on is VERY unlikely. 

So, we are going to take a loss the first few products or break even if we are lucky. I can live with that, this is basically the vanity press of the new millennia. Getting out without loosing my rear would not be a “defeat” it would be the lowest level of success. 

I stewed over several different artists and finally decided to go with this:

Lee Smith is going to do the initially proposed character designs in color. 
Jeff Ward will be doing the cover. 
Jason McCustion will be doing several interior shots. 
Clayton from Morningstar is doing the maps. 

I am considering a piece from two other artists; we will see how my bank account holds out. [These two have not been notified since I need to do some number crunching but they are Sarah Skinner & Ian Armstrong]. 

Finally, I also picked up a layout artist from group, Sarah Skinner.


The moral to this story is expect to either: take a loss, put out an inferior looking product, become an artist, marry an artist, or design a product that needs no art.

Next - comes the dreaded discussion of becoming a pimp daddy. Also, webdesign and product concept. Shortly after that we will get to the "special
features" then we will be up on today where I got the brilliant idea to write this thread instead of doing any real work.


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 31, 2004)

The Virgin Islands .....   now that would be interesting.

I speak with an accountant tomorrow, I might run the idea by him just for fun.   

Thanks for the words of encouragement, Mark. Perhaps you should pipe in since you have 100 times more experience than I do.


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## Sir Elton (Mar 31, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> The Virgin Islands .....   now that would be interesting.
> 
> I speak with an accountant tomorrow, I might run the idea by him just for fun.
> 
> Thanks for the words of encouragement, Mark. Perhaps you should pipe in since you have 100 times more experience than I do.




Oh sure, ignore my post.


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 31, 2004)

Sir Elton said:
			
		

> Oh sure, ignore my post.





Well, you are the competition. I need to work on keeping your airtime down.

Actaully, that is pretty close to what I am doing. If you want to see how much we jive send me an email. This ball is rolling and there is room for a few more people, but I don't have a business degree.   If I did I would go use it somewhere else and make money.



Eosin_the_red@cox.net


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## Mark (Mar 31, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> Thanks for the words of encouragement, Mark.




You're welcome!



			
				Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> Perhaps you should pipe in since you have 100 times more experience than I do.




Don't drag me into this!  (I'm here to learn, like everyone else.)



			
				Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> ...but I don't have a business degree.   If I did I would go use it somewhere else and make money.




Truer words were never spoken.


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## LGodamus (Mar 31, 2004)

Wow you got some pretty good artists there...I would say money well spent...........


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 31, 2004)

*Website for Sale to good home!!*

Web design and the Death of an Icon!

Not really an Icon but I sure liked it. After diving in and spending some dough, it suddenly sprang to mind that I ran an extensive fan site for the Wheel of Time RPG and I ran a fan site for my Fantasy Hero game that included proprietary images from Hero Games.

Ut oh, that ain’t gonna fly real well at all. I started looking at methods to shelter my 3 year old website that was still doing well on Enworlds topsites. The grim reality set in that my baby was going to have to be laid to rest. Another sort of emotional conflict surfaced around this issue. I was giving up being a “big fish in a little pond” to become a “small fish in one of the great lakes.” That did not seem like much but I started asking myself why I was doing what I was doing? I came up with the following reasons.

People – especially semi-pro people - like to grumble about how they could do it better. Critics grumble about how novices think they can do it better and gamers just keep on gaming. Can I do it better? Everyone who is in RPG publishing or reviewing, at their core, believes that they can do it better. That is what we are doing isn’t it? WotC thought that they could run TSR better, Hasbro thought that they could run WotC better, Monte Cook thought that he could do better, we all think that we have something to offer and that it is “better” than what is out there. The big BUT for me is that I could do the same with my website. That can’t be the only reason.

Respect? Who are we kidding. Actually, I will discuss this in a minute.

Money? I am the provider for a family of 5. My wife has been a stay at home mother for the last 4 years. Money is always an issue. Maybe I just dream big but I think that there is money to be made at this if you try hard enough, just like there is money in basketball if you try hard enough. Possibly big money, but that would hinge on getting licensing fees and novels deals. 

Ascending to ever higher heights of Dming? In a way, this is also a reason. Writing game worlds, modules, and supplements is similar to being the DM. As I have aged, gaming has been reduced from a Saturday and Sunday affair to a Saturday night thing and finally to where I am today which is gaming every other Saturday night. Lots of pent up creativity and frustrated story telling in this ole body of mine. I think about writing novels and directing movies also.

I think all of these reasons play into the decision to become a publisher, even respect. I know that they did in my case. Like every arm chair quarterback I think I can play the game well. Everyone desires to be acknowledged, and that may be as indirectly as my wife telling her friends that her husband runs a small publishing company to getting special treatment at the FLGS. There is something special about being a writer or an artist who makes money at their profession. It is like when I was a Fire Fighter. That is the coolest job in the world and EVERYONE knows it. I was younger and much more foolishly prideful in my youth but I loved it when people asked what I did for a living. I like being a RN - I am damn good at my profession but I am not proud to say I am a nurse. I think I would be proud to say that I am a writer or publisher, not in the same way as being a fire fighter but with that same sence of owning or being your professional title. 

Money. It can be done, it probably isn’t easy but it is probably much more likely than my turning into a pro ball player. 

Tonight I spent several hours outlining my plan to a friend. My wife can breathe easy, our bank account will soon be back on the solvent side, and I will be able to make the mortgage. We discussed these very issues, and my friend told me with his wallet that he believed in my dream, and that he believed in me, even if I was doing some things in an unorthodox fashion. He saw my vision. 

It is still weird losing my fansites so please pardon my sentimentality.

Tomorrow night I will talk about web design and where I think many small (and some large) companies go wrong. It is a good thing that I am no longer foolishly prideful


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## Sir Elton (Mar 31, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> Well, you are the competition. I need to work on keeping your airtime down.
> 
> Actaully, that is pretty close to what I am doing. If you want to see how much we jive send me an email. This ball is rolling and there is room for a few more people, but I don't have a business degree.   If I did I would go use it somewhere else and make money.
> 
> ...




YES!  I am the Competition.  But keep my airtime down and you are killing yourself.  Competition, GOOD!  Monopoly, BAD!  Didn't you take economics in High School? 

My game products are going to be a little different.  I'm working on translating Jason and the Argonauts into a D20 Module.  When the product is ready to press, it's not going to be compliant with the d20 STL.  So I don't know how much we are going to jive together.


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## Kyramus (Mar 31, 2004)

This falls on 14, what are you writing about.

Content and artwork

Reading through this thread, I found something that lingered in the back of my mind.  At first I didn't know what it was until I reread the company name. Pencil Pushers Publishing.

Cover could be color, but i am getting nostalgic and remembering those pencil artwork that's charcoalish type.  Then I vaguely remembered the old stuff that were either blu pencil sketches or just pencil sketches.

It might be something to think about, just to give it a feel for the overall company.

Cover art could be blue pencil sketch or color, but the interior art is charcoal or pencil sketches.  

now that i've talked about artwork, let's go back to content.  What would Pencil Pushers be focused on.
1) game worlds are plentiful, Adventures/modules might be a good way to go. Generic world.
2) World politics, or how to guides for building monarchies, councils, etc?
3) Where's the trade? What to trade? does a single ear of corn buy you a night in the local inn?
4) Merchant caravans, merchant princes, family secrets, specializing in what kind of trade, caravan guards?
5) more monsters?
6) More spells?
7) Terrain specific core classes?
8) low magic? medium magic? high magic? stupendously overmuch magic with tech? (picture arm cartridges that inject cure serious potion as a free action during combat when youg et hurt for more than 15 hps)
9) Alternate prime planes? allows for cross overs to whatever world you want.
10) So you are a Demigod, what now?
11) So you are an Archmage, what are you doing now?
12) So you just took over a country, what now?
13) You are the overlord of the world. What now?
14) The underdark is darker than you expected.
15) The world is hollow?
16) The moon is inhabited?
17) The moon is hollow?
18) Things that fly to the moon and back?
19) A world without humans?
20) Time fluctuating world? one day you have low magic, next you have high, next you have low tech, next it's battle armor.  makes for a weird game but if the whole world knows that it changes day in and day out, how do governments and leaders control the populace?  How do people survive when crops appear and disappear every day?  Maybe there is a temple of time that doesn't get affected? and they can fortell what the next day holds?


just brainstorming, tossing ideas in the breeze, etc.
if you need an extra brain, i'm willing to lend a hand.  

Kyramus@yahoo.com


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## Wulf Ratbane (Mar 31, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> Total art bill for the first project, including maps is going to bury me at or around $800.00 to 1,000.00 dollars. That is on a project that I plan to make $1050.00 over the course of 3-4 months and any PDF people will tell you that what I am banking on is VERY unlikely.




Once you've committed to laying out that kind of money for art, PDF is no longer the wisest option.

You will actually have an easier time recouping that investment PLUS your printing costs with a print run of about 2000 copies. 

In the short term, I'd go with b/w artwork exclusively, and fewer art pieces overall, which is more in line with the needs of a PDF consumer. If and when your PDF proves itself, you can always go to print.

But for the kind of investment you're talking about, I'd go straight to print.

Wulf


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## Eosin the Red (Mar 31, 2004)

Kyramus, I am sad to say that you will have to wait until tonight or tomorrow to get your answers. That will be a little bit of a story worth telling.

_________________________________

Wulf!

A man who knows how to do things right. I appreciate the advice and for the sake of this article I will investigate that possibility. I assume that everyone would want to see how a complete novice goes about trying to get something printed?

I had a little yardwork to do today and the next article will need a little websurfing to look at some of the websites both of the "biggies" and the "littlies." Anybody have any pet peeves about company websites?

Personally, sites like Wulf's Badaxe Games  are dynamite visually, plus it is easy to find since I found it without using a search engine (I just typed in Badaxegames.com). I have not investigated to see if it has more underneath the hood, but I have been to the site a dozen or more times in the last month while researching. Work this evening will involve some hearty websurfing so if you have a site put out the welcome mat - I will be stopping by. 

A hint for Kyramus, a name should have more meaning than just being a name and Pecil Pushers carries with it a little "baggage" that you have astutely picked up on.

Now, I have mail. I have mail from Green Ronin  and I am a little nervous to open it. I guess that I will have to tell this story also.

.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Mar 31, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> Now, I have mail. I have mail from Green Ronin  and I am a little nervous to open it. I guess that I will have to tell this story also.




Well, knowing what I know of the good folks at Green Ronin, I don't think you have anything to worry about.

I'll play the guessing game:

An offer to incorporate material from their Medieval Player's Handbook?

An offer to help take you to print?


Wulf


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## Ashrem Bayle (Mar 31, 2004)

Wow. This is very interesting!

Eosin, please check the email account you have associated with ENWorld. I sent you a little something.


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## Napftor (Mar 31, 2004)

Ashrem Bayle said:
			
		

> Wow. This is very interesting!




You aren't kidding, Ashrem.  I think people are very willing to root for the underdog and that Eosin may find a surprising number of helping hands on his way to the "I own a small publishing company" club.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 1, 2004)

Thanks for the encouragement guys. I had wondered if this was a good idea or not but since I really did propose it to Goodman Games in the Publishers Forum year or so ago, I thought that people (like me) might still be interested.

This thread has already done allot for me, on the positive side it gives me a little more gusto to try things, it allows me to ask honest questions instead of hoping that I am doing the right thing and it is focusing me on what it is that I want. On the negative side, I still have a project to finish by Monday that I have not touched.    

Today and last night was a mixed bag - I got together with two of the artists and got them rolling. One of the artists will need some direction on what it is that I want and that requires that I actually know what I need which I do not. I need to plot out parts of the first book to get some relevant art rather than haphazard art.

Speaking of art, I am going to have a phone conversation with Mystic Eye Games - Hal to be specific on Tuesday. We are going to talk some about art and I am going to check out cover-2-cover. The Mystic Eye Guys have always been super around here and are plenty involved in the community, I am looking forward to chatting with them.

I need to talk with my partner - Quillion. I don't think he knows about this thread yet   

I have a second draft of some of his work in my inbox that needs some reviewing and I need to try and finish my Two-Fisted Action piece.

I was also thinking that I do not have a real good name for the setting. The company is "Pencil Pushers Publishing (3P). Mythical Gaming is the slogan but what do we call the setting? Forgotten Realms? Nah, already taken? I am still debating this one. It needs to be catchy and evocative but not mundane?

I may have to move up some plans - my wife is going back for surgery again on Monday so changing out the websites on Tuesday may be hard. I might need to do it Sunday.
-


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 1, 2004)

*Webstuff*

Website stuff. Now you would think that after running 2-3 websites I would know something about design? Wrong. I use FrontPage for all my needs and that might be a little skimpy for a full-fledged company. I did what I always do when I have questions, I went to a pro.

Raflar.com

Raflar did the work on the Middle Earth site that was put together here at Enworld and until he offered it looked like I would be doing the design so I sort of look on him as my savior. I spoke with him for 2 reasons - 1 keeping money within the "industry" seems like a good thing to me and 2. because I really like his work. What did I learn? I really need to go into webdesign if I want to make a good living. 

Alright, hiring a webdesigner won't work. That means that I will need to do it myself. Fortunately, I have some skills, I have front page and I already know a lot of the "stuff" that you need to know. I have my own message boards which are the home of the Wheel of Time d20 community since WotC kicked them out  Actually, most folks understand that the contract expired. 

I looked around for fantasy templates. Don't try this at work - you can get some pretty interesting results. I finally found something that I liked at Lipstick Monkey. It has imbedded pop ups, automated feedback, style sheets, and some good navigation.

Now all I have to do is modify it to suit my needs and publish it. I had a nice picture hanging out that my brother had drawn for me. I scanned that bad boy in and will use it as the company "mascot." That took something like 4 hours when you include stiching it.

Like Badaxe games, I desired my own DNS. Unfortunately, Pencilpushers.com is taken by an accounting firm. I did a search with my web host and came up with Pencilpushers.net. What is the difference between net, com, org, & us?
_____________________________________________

http://www.weeno.com/art/0799/128.html

The dotcom.

The last three letters of the URL. It is known as the top level domain (TLD). 

Top level domains consist of the generic .COM, .EDU, NET, ORG, GOV, MIL, and INT 

.COM stand for "commercial", meaning the website serves a commercial purpose, and is used to make money. While it is the most common domain, it is also the most abused, since many .com websites aren't made for profit.

.EDU is intended for educational institutions. Universities, colleges, schools, etc,

.NET WAS intended to hold only the computers of network providers, but has become another over-used domain.

.ORG was supposed to be the "big" TLD, as it would have held anything that wasn't commercial, educational, or otherwise. However, it is one of the least used TLD's today.

.GOV This domain was originally intended for any kind of government office or agency. However, it was decided to register only agencies of the US Federal government in this domain. 

.MIL is the all but extinct domain representing the US Military.

.INT This domain is for organizations established by international treaties, or international databases. It is also very rarely seen.
______________________________________________________


I elected to grab the .net and go from there.

Anyway - now I have the name and the web template and a mascot, I should be all set! Wrong. Websites (in this instance) are just like the FLGS. You should buy stuff from them and be allowed to hang out and read a few pages of any interesting looking book. The site should also make you want to come back more often.

I suppose from here we should go buy a book on web design but being a bear of very little wit, I just plugged on through. These are the things that I found to be important.

1. I want a newsletter that allows you to offer a little something each month.
1.5 I also need regular features, like the news at Enworld that bring folks back to the site.
2. I have a forum so that issue is already solved.
3. If it can't be cool like Bad Axe then it should be clean. Not all of us can be the coolest looking site on the web. I would rather look clean and plain than noisy and garish in an attempt to be stylish.
4. Easy navigation.
5. Style Sheets!!! The Wheel of Time taught me that little lesson. It plain looks goofy when your text is 2 different fonts, colors, or sizes.


That about sums it up for my web stuff. I did do some surfing today, but in the end, I don't want to be a critic and the sites that I did look at were all steller so .... we can just skip that part.

Next....It slices, it dices, it is the mighty green katana of doom!!!


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 1, 2004)

The Green Ronin story will have to wait until morning, I just spent 2 hours reading about contracts. I did talk on the phone with an accountant today - Here is another lesson, do NOT expect an accountant to do anything in the first few weeks of April.

I am also discussing partnership agreements with my partner and still trying to figure out how to handle other peoples money - as far as the "company" goes? I will need some of that money before the Accountant is free so this could become a problem.

Contracts......yuck. I wonder how come there are no contracts in Nursing? Actually, now that I think about it patients are required to sign those little forms that say "While we are clipping your toenails it is possible that you might die, lose your vision, or be maimed. Please sign below indicating that you are fine with that."

If you want to start a company, don't expect to get much sleep. Up in 5 hours   See you then.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 1, 2004)

The Green Ronin Story.

Yep, I am playing with the big boys now! I am sure that they don't view themselves as being one of the kings of the hill but to someone like me, just a kid getting all spunky - they are the elder gods of the RPG. So, what was I doing writing them an e-mail?

I love the BotR. I have loved it since it came out but it is completely untapped. There are no modules and no setting pieces that use the BotR as an integral part of their make up. I wanted to do that. I wrote to ask permission to use their IP or to license their IP for my game company. Audacious but really, the BotR is just wasting away on my shelf. Why not ask?

Chris was very nice and wished me well, then he told me *what I should have known already*. In order for me to use the IP they would need to use man power to supervise and approve that use. I asked for something that would have cost them and offered next to nothing concrete in return. I need to turn that around so that GR stands to make gains instead of a net loss. That will require a bit of thought. 

I do already have my own cosmology that is similar to Green Ronin's but I thought that it would be cool to use my favorite RPG book for my own companies stuff. Not to mention that associating myself with a strong name like Green Ronin would have had a very real impact on sales. 

Back to the drawing board. I want to work with Green Ronin, I just need to find the right angle.

My cosmology is part of my re-imagining of the basics. Something I plan to discuss in this evenings post. It could also be called how Enworld changed my view of gaming or inspired me to "get back to basics."


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## Emiricol (Apr 1, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> Speaking of art, I am going to have a phone conversation with Mystic Eye Games - Hal to be specific on Tuesday. We are going to talk some about art and I am going to check out cover-2-cover. The Mystic Eye Guys have always been super around here and are plenty involved in the community, I am looking forward to chatting with them.
> -



 Hi!  Following this thread with interest, and definitely cheering for you   As to MEG and C2C - I'm not sure your results, but when I once tried to contact them to hire their services, I got no response.  I emailed again saying I wasn't interested in working with a company that couldn't be bothered to reply to an inquiry on a sales matter, since it meant once they had my money they would likely be *more* unresponsive.  That also got no reply.  I shrugged and moved on.

 MEG Hal has always been a great poster here, and I'm truly not trying to flame anyone, but for whatever it is worth that was *my* experience trying to _give him money for services he advertised_.

 -Emiricol


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 2, 2004)

I have two things to bring people up to speed for the day but it is already 1 am and I still have some other stuff to get done.

I finalized the artist contracts and sent them out this evening. It felt weird and some of the language is absolute. Many thanks (once again) goes to RPGnow for providing the sample contracts. I would have been lost without them – for that reason alone the e-publishers guide  is worth the price. I did ask some of the artists [who are a pretty swell bunch of guys by the way] what they thought about contracts and their standard procedure. We will see what they say.

[Amended: I asked what they thought about the contract I sent to them, and what they normally did for contracts. Earlier I had asked an artist (Lee Smith) what he wanted to with contracts and he gave me some good insight.] 

I spent a good part of last night writing descriptions for art pieces, by the time I got to my interior artist I was tapped out. I still need to describe two scenes to him but gave him enough that he can get started (I hope).

I am working on finishing up a partnership agreement with my partner. This is another area that seems queer. All of the “professional people” tell me that this is a must. We are setting down what decisions can be made and by who, what the disposition of the funds will be, managerial responsibilities, corporate planning….etc. These are things that will make you uncomfortable when discussing amongst friends. Should I have the power to veto his projects? Should he have the power to change mine? Who spends the money and has access to the bank? Can he “fire” me? If these things are not decided upon upfront  then it can really become a nightmare (so I hear). Man, nursing is looking better all the time, maybe I should just work 2 jobs?

I worked on the name thing. The area will be called the Imbrian Dominion or more commonly, the Western States. The story arc is the “Night of Fire,” funny how I return to my roots. I ran a Birthright PBEM called the Night of Fire. I just think it is a good idea and rife with possibilities. 

I am a name freak [and a map freak]. I spend hours looking at names and naming origins-conventions. I love planting information about stuff in the names I use. I would also like everyone to feel free to let me of names that just don’t work. 

I spent some of this evening getting stuff together for the guys and gals who will be taking over my fansite. Speaking of that, Pencil Pushers Forums  are officially up and running. The web site is still a few days off.

Now I get to re-read the OGL-STL and think about those other 2 pictures? Look at about a dozen emails and get some sleep.

No promises, but I will try to give a thought to products and what 3P (Pencil Pushers Publishing) will be doing.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 2, 2004)

Emiricol said:
			
		

> _I got no response.  I emailed again saying I wasn't interested in working with a company that couldn't be bothered to reply to an inquiry on a sales matter, since it meant once they had my money they would likely be *more* unresponsive.  That also got no reply. _.
> 
> -Emiricol




That sounds like a case of bad email address to me. A real bummer. I had a little problem emailing Hal also - I clicked on his hyperlink in his sig and it did not work but I could still see the email address. 

It sounds like your problem is resolved (one way or the other) but if not, why don't you write to Hal directly - hal@mysticeyegames.com  I am positive from seeing him and Doug both on these pages that niether of them just ignore querries. Hal was also pretty super in the email exchange we have had - except that he said I ask too many questions. Well, maybe he did not say that   He did tell me that when I speak to him next week, he will not be wearing pants, I did not know if that should make me happy or scare me?


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## MEG Hal (Apr 2, 2004)

Emiricol said:
			
		

> Hi!  Following this thread with interest, and definitely cheering for you   As to MEG and C2C - I'm not sure your results, but when I once tried to contact them to hire their services, I got no response.  I emailed again saying I wasn't interested in working with a company that couldn't be bothered to reply to an inquiry on a sales matter, since it meant once they had my money they would likely be *more* unresponsive.  That also got no reply.  I shrugged and moved on.
> 
> MEG Hal has always been a great poster here, and I'm truly not trying to flame anyone, but for whatever it is worth that was *my* experience trying to _give him money for services he advertised_.
> 
> -Emiricol




Emircol, I am sorry you had issues with that side of us (MEG), we do get overwhelmed at times and miss e-mails, and I am sure if you sent e-mail #2 then they would not of followed up on it   .  So while we have slowed down talking about C2C it can be a viable option for people to get great prices on printing up to much, much more.

If you get no responce please forward the e-mail to me so I can deal with it.

Thanks


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## MEG Hal (Apr 2, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> That sounds like a case of bad email address to me. A real bummer. I had a little problem emailing Hal also - I clicked on his hyperlink in his sig and it did not work but I could still see the email address.
> 
> It sounds like your problem is resolved (one way or the other) but if not, why don't you write to Hal directly - hal@mysticeyegames.com  I am positive from seeing him and Doug both on these pages that niether of them just ignore querries. Hal was also pretty super in the email exchange we have had - except that he said I ask too many questions. Well, maybe he did not say that   He did tell me that when I speak to him next week, he will not be wearing pants, I did not know if that should make me happy or scare me?




LMAO---shaving legs now


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 3, 2004)

I got the website up and running. It is pretty bare - just a skeleton but feel free to check it out. The sig has changed and I am too pooped to do anything else.    

Randy


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## Janx (Apr 3, 2004)

An interesting account of how to start a business.  This should be useful reading for all newbies.

Now for some comments on expenses:
The e-publishing forum here on enworld had an excellent thread on how to make PDFs for free.  Namely print to file with an Apple driver, then convert PS2PDF with Ghostview.  Free, effective, and optimized for size.  Just use your favorite word processor (which the newest ones act like desktop publishing apps).

Map making:  If you're such a good map maker, why did you pay someone else to make them?  Know your skills and use them, it's cheaper usually.  Now maybe you do really know your skills (and you could do better by paying), but your early comments implied your maps are pretty good.

Good luck,
Janx


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 3, 2004)

I will make some more comments tonight after my tabletop - in the mean time, this is the caliber of my home maps. I do need to say that like the freaky 80-year-old grandmother who can spot a fleck of dust on the 50's shag carpet that looks like it was installed yesterday, I will spot flaws and be very critical of my own stuff in a way that will always leave me unhappy with the finished product. (I like Aristotelian sentences).

This is a map that I have used for about 2 years and will use as the “regional map” but the maps that I am getting produced by Clayton are much smaller slices [100x100 miles]


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## Janx (Apr 3, 2004)

well to be honest, that map looked pretty good.  Mighta needed some tighter font control (picking fonts that look right for the style).  Pretty minor stuff to fix.  I'd shipped it in a product (if I made products).

As an editor type person, you have to know what level of quality is acceptable, and go with it.  A clean map with no bugs is better than a beautiful map with a errors.  That also means knowing what level of quality you're paying for.

Now if Eosin's happy, great, I'm sure he'll have a fine product.  But for others out there, the advice is (and its free so be wary):  Try to do it cheaply, but watch the quality level.  If you can do it yourself and have time to do it, do so.

Janx


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## LiVeWiRe (Apr 3, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> I looked around for fantasy templates. Don't try this at work - you can get some pretty interesting results. I finally found something that I liked at Lipstick Monkey. It has imbedded pop ups, automated feedback, style sheets, and some good navigation.




Eosin,

Just curious...what template did you use if you don't mind me asking?

Thanks,
-LW


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 4, 2004)

LiVeWiRe said:
			
		

> Eosin,
> 
> Just curious...what template did you use if you don't mind me asking?
> 
> ...





First In Flight 

Lipstick Monkey

That should take you to the correct page. They do have a variety of excellent templates for FP. They are also very easy to modify and since I am a web guru "poser" I need all the fakery I can get.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 4, 2004)

Janx said:
			
		

> But for others out there, the advice is (and its free so be wary):  Try to do it cheaply, but watch the quality level.  If you can do it yourself and have time to do it, do so.
> 
> Janx





I think this is good advice. Here is my own advice.

Determine your production standards before you start. I know that I am a demanding chump, in my own way, not in a mean demeaning way. I know what I like, and I have made decisions - some of those decisions can mean that instead of making money writing game stuff, I will actually lose money. Very possible.

This gets to the second point - know what you want. Here is my 3-tier strategy.

*1. To sell rights to The Last Dominion setting to MGM for 1.5+ million dollars. Well, really, if you are going to aim big, why not AIM BIG!    

2. To turn enough profit yearly that I can afford to pay myself and my partner a small stipend on top of being able to produce quality supplements.

3. To break even or take a small loss but get a world produced that I can be proud to have made.*


Number 3 is, of course, most likely. I still get to design a cool game world, brag about having written a gaming book, and have some cool pictures and maps done by pros. I also get to solicit help from friends and give them some credit for the many years of gaming.

Number 2 is the worst of them, since that tends to tease people into doing things for much longer than they should. I know people who believe in something and just refuse to let it die even though it has not done anything for them in some time. As I tell my 3 year old "Poop or get off the pot."

*Come on lucky number 1!!! Daddy needs a snake eye!* We all dream don't we? Well, here is mine. 

I know what I want, so that allows me to make competent decisions about production and quality based solely on my goals. The lowest acceptable level for me is the production of something that I can be proud of - I am doing that. You* may not like it. Critics may not like it. BUT, when I pack my bags and head home after the first book is put to bed, it will be the best book that I can do. The second book will take what I learned in the first, and I will produce an even better book, and so on. [You* is used in a general meaning not a specific one].

When I am no longer putting my heart in it, you* will know, I will know and if it is at level 3 or 2 then I will walk away from it. If it is at level 1 then I will pay someone to baby sit while I take a quick walk on the beach with my wife.  

I ran a good game tonight. Much fun was to be had.

Expect a small hickup from me. The wife is going to have surgery on Monday in the wee hours of the morning so I will likely spend the majority of tomorrow with her. She will remain in the hospital for several days - meaning it is just me and the three hellions around here. I imagine that I will be very wasted by the end of the day and it may be as long as a week before I am able to come back here. Rest assured that I will come back. 

If you feel like giving me a hand, say a little something for my wife when you make your peace Sunday night with whatever you make peace with. 

.


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## MongooseMatt (Apr 4, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> 1.	A name?
> 2.	Start up funding.
> 3.	What do you mean S or C, perhaps an L.L.C. or dba? The gritty world of incorporation.
> 4.	State of origin, federal id numbers.
> ...




You missed the most important thing of all - a business plan. . .


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## Krail Stromquism (Apr 4, 2004)

*Good Stuff!*

I really like this thread, its fun to see you move along.

Im curious what software you're going with?

If you were going to blow the bank, I'd go with Adobe CS and Macromedia MX Studio 2004, with Flash Pro. InDesign is way better than PageMaker if you are already used to Adobe products. Dreamweaver and Fireworks are great for webdesign, and easy to use, and Flash is just the bomb.

Art and Design are so important. The template you have is more than good enough, but be sure to put money aside for future redesign. Most freelancers run anywhere from 35-50 bucks an hour and if you took to an actual agencey your talking in to 100-150 dollar range. You can pick up demos of a lot of these programs, worth learning. Even if you pay for a new look or template you can implement everything else yourself. Also as a dorky side note Macromedia has a new product called contribute, which you probably dont need as you probably know HTML well enough, but it allows you to 'lock down' pages, thus other people working on them cant go in and destroy/monkey with junk. Say you lock out all you site but the main body text, then anyone you authorize can edit that text via contribute, might be a good way to let your partners participate. 

Ive been wanting to use this since I saw it, anyohws.

As far as art goes you can never spend too much. when you break it down to pay vs. time spent, most of these guys are making 7-10 an hour, if they are fast! 

anyhows if you have any Q's about any junk I just said, feel free to visit my website or email me.

www.mythdrivinglegend.com

I think your doing a great job so far. I used to have  picture on my site and the jist of it was growing up doesnt mean stop dreaming, it means taking responisbility for your dreams. It seems to me like your doing just that.


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## Qwillion (Apr 4, 2004)

*The Silent Partner*

ok one eosin did not tell me about this thread right away, two I work long hours at a place with no internet accesse, three I am in the process of moving into my new house which will not be ready till april, so I am at my parents with basic dial up until then.  

Eosin you need to talk to me about webdesign I am very happy with the sight but I have a friend (I sent him an email about it).  

oh and for everyone here who do not know me

My bio for the site.

Steven “Quillion” Russell of Dayton, Ohio is a 30 year old D&D addict who refuses to go in for treatment. He is supported and betrayed by his fanatical gaming companions known as “The Group” who are currently exploring, play testing, and being assaulted by Steve’s designs for 3P.  

Steve has been a Gamemaster for 17+ years (he will compare war stories with you), having played with a red box first edition, he has played Vampire, Larps, Torg, Rolemaster, Marvel Superheroes, Champions, GURPS, Star wars (west end and d20), Shadowrun,  Mutants and Masterminds, WoT Rpg, Midnight and a dozen others he cannot remember the names off.  Reluctant to switch to 3E because he was in the middle of a 2 year campaign, his players forced him too after finding they loved the system. Once he made the change he never looked back.  

After finding a new measure of happiness and freedom in his life this year, Steve began to actively pursue bring his work to a professional level. During this time he has placed third in the Enkwell.com (waves to Brannon Hollingsworth) treasure contest and had his submission accepted by Bastion Press (waves to Jim Butler) for Arms and Armor 3.5.  He has also had work accepted by various other small publishing companies such as Khan Press (weaves to Garth Wright.)
 .
Steve continues to write for the d20 section of silven.com (waves to Steel), and is best known for his prestige production articles, He also writes Quillion’s Quill for the Silven trumpeter (waves to Kosala), which is based on his postings in the Silven forums.

While in the middle of doing query letters for Dragon and Dungeon magazine, Steve was offered a partnership in 3P by Eosin the Red (Randy Madden), diving in head first he began work on a project code named “HTBM” writing in a Microcosm-fantastical style completely at odds with his Eosin’s Macrocosm-Historical style.  Steve also writes the Freestyle Campaigning Articles for Pencilpushers.net  

Steve’s influences are drawn from Homer (not Simpson), Greek Mythology,  Robert Jordan, Steven Schend, Roger Zeleney, Orsan Scott Card, Frank Herbert, Stephen R. Donaldson, George R.R. Martin, J. M. Strazinzki, Frank Miller, Mark Gruenwald, Chris Claremont, Archie Goodwin, Peter David, Fabian Nacezia, and Ed Greenwood.   

His current favorite D20 products are Geanuve The Stones of Peace by Ed Greenwood for Kenzer Co’s Kingdoms of Kalamar, Book of the Righteous by Aaron Loeb (and others) from Green Ronin Publishing, and the Monsternomicon by Various from Privateer Press and he is looking forward to a print version of Legacy of the Dragons by Mike Mearls and Monte cook from Malhavoc Press.

His favorite Websites are (other than the obvious wizards, enworld, Montecook.com, Mortality radio etc.)
Silven.com check out the Feat Factory  by Astros and Game Reviews by Steel
Giantitp.com check out the order of the stick comic, The New world articles and “This Old Rule“.
Roleplayingtips.com with a massive archive that can help any campaign.


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## Janx (Apr 4, 2004)

the mongoose brings up a good point:  business plan (I do have a business degree)

It's also a good idea to have some sort of market research (or fake data) supporting your plan to release a campaign world product.

Its a matter of studying what works.  If campaign worlds don't sell well, then your chances of success in that format is lower than if you picked a different product category). 

From what I can tell, the product categories seem to be:
monster collections (monsters that infect with eggs, then burst thru chest)
spell collections (Bigby's clenched arse, Bigby's groping fingers...)
item collections (my new vapor longsword +3 is misty!)
campaign worlds (in the beginning...)
adventure/modules (rescue princess, get gold, the end)
class expansion books (fighters need more feats)
race expansion books (now elves are even kewler)
new race or class expansion books (let's invent sponge-people)
new rules on a new topic (D&D3.x has no ship rules, I'll write them)
rewriting rules on a topic books (ie. my sailing ship rules are better than his)
Service Packs (Earthy Arcana book will replace all the core rules with mine)
Short PDFs on a topic (PhillipJReed thinks these sell well, his stuff sells)


Having done no market research myself (the Scott Adams approach), I can tell you that Short PDFs, new rules on a new topic, monster and spell collections seem to go over well.  I say this because people keep making them, so they must do well.  I get the feeling that campaign worlds do not (since Wotc has seperated itself a bit from the process).  Or more to say, there's money in the initial release, but supporting it tends to drag things down.  Which is why Wotc changed it's campaign world practices a bit.  I would expect them to kill Eberon or FR after a certain amount of time.  The worlds they license are different, in that they do initial work (ie. Wheel of Time) but then shut it down.

A good poll would be to ask how many GMs use homebrew versus boxed campaign worlds.  You could subdivide boxed campaigns into Wotc ones, or third party ones, or ones adapted directly from non-d20 sources.  Someone out there is running a D20 modern game in the StarGate setting without the AEG books.  I ran an FR campaign with nothing more than the map from an FR novel.  Those GMs are effectively running a homebrew with inspiration from another source (aka the Man isn't getting a cut).

Just some thoughts,
Janx


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 4, 2004)

MongooseMatt said:
			
		

> You missed the most important thing of all - a business plan. . .




I guess that means I get an F in economics, but my bedside manner is A+. I have "A" plan, but I don't know if it is a business plan. I always wondered what people exactly meant when they said that? Just like you probably wonder what all of the numbers that nurses and dr's look at to determine your state of health.

Business Plan = make money selling books.  

I can identify strategies employed by various publishers. It is harder to identify successful strategies since few know any concrete numbers. I also have strategies and methods to the madness of what I am doing. Will they work? That is the real question.

In the Nursing, Fire Fighting, and Paramedics field, they teach variations of a triage approach. We were taught to:

1. assess the situation.
2. formulate a strategy for successfully navigating the situation (plan of care).
3. implement plan of care.
4. note results.
5. reassess the situation to see if your plan of care is achieving the desired results.
6. adjust the strategy to incorporate new data.
7. implement adjusted plan of care then start at #4 again.

The last parts of this triage method is to recognize what you can save and what is beyond your skill in the situation you are currently in. Back in the fire fighter days – those were the red tags. When someone was so wasted or just plain dead, you placed a red clip on their chest. This told everyone to move on down the road, nothing to see here. Go do something constructive, this person is not worth the effort it will take to save them.  In the Emergency Rooms that I have worked at I referred to this as DRT – Dead Right There [pleasant thought for those of you who are squeamish].

I have done numbers 1-2 and I am implementing number 3. 

Never one to be gun shy, I will stick around through the whole process and let people know what I did right and wrong. 

Why does all of this matter and how is it relevant? 

My guess is that a business plan is something similar. 
Know the field you are getting into.
Develop a strategy for achieving your goals within that field.
Implement that same strategy.
Take note of the results that are achieved through your plan.
Develop a new strategy based on the data that has been “objectively observed.”
Implement your new plan of action and then go back to step 4.

Most importantly – identify what you can save and what is worth saving. Concentration of least effort to most positive outcomes is the most desirable expression of energy. If something is DRT don’t spend an hour trying to do CPR, cancel the line and spend your efforts on a line that has some life in it. 

Thanks for the input. If that is a business plan, then I have one! If it is not then I am truly doomed! 

Sharing a business plan, now that would be a little on the brave little soldier line. It is like telling the person who comes in after a heart attack that the reason we put those funny little machines on their chest is that in the first 48 hours after an MI the heart is electrically erratic and likely to enter into terminal arrhythmias. Those little wires allow us to watch as that happens. That may be the truth but it is not going to make the patient feel any better, in fact, it will likely make them feel worse. They were better off assuming that you are looking after them, which is exactly what you are doing. Knowing the details is sometimes …. unpleasant. Like looking at an advertisement for a gaming magazine and seeing something close to pornographic material in the form of a scantily clad babe with a chainmail thong. I like skin, but sometimes this can jump into the realm of “do they really think I am that stupid?”

I guess that means that I think I have a business plan.  

I will try to get to all of the other comments today but forgive me if I let them go for a few days.


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## tonym (Apr 4, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> ...Thanks for the input. If that is a business plan, then I have one! If it is not then I am truly doomed! ...




The Oprah has some info on business plans located here:
http://www.oxygen.com/contest/getthemoney/resnick/plan.aspx

Eosin, one thing confuses me about this whole project: The project seems to be about two different things at the same time: (1) Making a single product that probably won't make any money, but you'll be happy because of the reasons you listed, and (2) making an RPG company that will generate regular bucks.  

I guess I'm supposed to see (1) as leading to (2)....but I don't. 

To my mind, (1) leads to (1) leads to (1) leads to (1)... 

Changing (1) to read, "Make $500 profit with the first product and invest that money back into the company"...now THAT seems to lead to (2).  IMHO, of course.  I'm not a business person.

I'm really interested in following this whole enterprise.  Good luck!

Tony M


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## Janx (Apr 4, 2004)

Do a search for "Business Plan" as well as Small Business Development Center

Most bigger cities have an SBDC, and they can help you figure out your business plan document.  Business Plans are formal documents that banks and other people who like to give money away read to assure them that your not unorganized.

"make money selling books" is more of a Mission Statement.

You can find templates for writing a business plan online and in books on the subject.  I've had to write them in college, as well as SWOT analysis (Strengths, Weaknesses, Opportunities, and Threats).

You are right in that a business plan does include a process like you mentioned.  It also should include an Exit Strategy (how do you shut down shop), as well as delegation of authority (you and Quillion are in charge, but who has final say).

Having a business plan may help you work with big dogs like Green Ronin.  In the example you gave, they wanted to know what you could do for them.  Your business plan should be able to answer that.  (in theory, you would help Green Ronin by providing products that support and require Green Ronin's products, thus increasing demand for Green Ronin products).

Good luck,
Janx


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## MangahunterD (Apr 5, 2004)

*Well Eosin*

Man Eosin I am crushed... I thought we were friends and I heard about this from a thrid party.....
I guess my publishing experience, Access to cheap software, and really good friend who does cheap work for buddies who is a Published Artist/Graphic Designer/ Web Designer/ Former Gamer and works for a major publisher in Quillons backyard..... means nothing....
Oh well...

On the other hand I really hope Amy is okay, I will say something for her tonight as I go to slumber....


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## Qwillion (Apr 5, 2004)

Yes Eosin and I have had this disscussion and I feel since eosin asked me to join, I should be the silent partner and have tried to remain so.

In my mind I was wanting to be a small pdf publisher untill we found our stide and our niche. (me I was working on a Epic level pdf at the time Eosin contacted me), art would have been friends and newbies who wanted to get thier stuff out there. Thinking that the best way to make money was not to spend any.

Eosin however wants to from 0-60 in a few months and is on a manic drive toward his goal. I don't see it as horrible, as I think Eosin will put out a high quality adventure that will be well recieved by anyone who reads it.  There in lies the problem. 

I would rather have spent money on advertising than on art. People say art makes a book but I don't remeber adventures for thier artwork, unless all the art work is handouts, such as adventures like Tomb of Horrors or White Plume Mountain.Other than that the only time a picture is required is when you are doing a monster book, as nothing is more annoying than lacking the evocotive element of a monster to show your players.

Yet, Eosin is the boss, but when he wanted to cut HTMB to 48 pages I was like Hell NO!  he listened to me and I padded my count to 244 and I got the 96 I wanted (though I wished for 225).

We have different views that always seems to be the difference between Macrocosom and Microcosom. Yet when I look at the bussiness plan, If we do not succeed with the grand scheme, we can continue to pursue the small niche and our stide even if we stumble. 

Overall I am extremlly happy to be working with some one of Eosin's skills and insane drive.  

High Hopes


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## DaveMage (Apr 5, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> I am working on finishing up a partnership agreement with my partner. This is another area that seems queer. All of the “professional people” tell me that this is a must. We are setting down what decisions can be made and by who, what the disposition of the funds will be, managerial responsibilities, corporate planning….etc. These are things that will make you uncomfortable when discussing amongst friends. Should I have the power to veto his projects? Should he have the power to change mine? Who spends the money and has access to the bank? Can he “fire” me? If these things are not decided upon upfront  then it can really become a nightmare (so I hear). Man, nursing is looking better all the time, maybe I should just work 2 jobs?




If you haven't already considered it, one of the most important things you must consider in your partnership agreement is what happens when (not if) the partnership dissolves.  How will you split assets, Intellectual Property, etc.


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## Nellisir (Apr 5, 2004)

Interesting thread, Eosin.  I'm working on a smaller-scale venture myself -- mostly short free releases, and eventually a few pdf products.

Keep pluggin' away!

Cheers
Nell.


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## Estlor (Apr 6, 2004)

I may just be a hobbyist with a business degree and no entrepreneurial experience, Eosin, but here's some small tidbits of advice I can pass on:

*1. Consider the customer.*  And by that, of course, I mean keep in mind the kind of customer base you want to cultivate with your products.  Are you looking for enthusiasts that will embrace 3P's setting _en masse_, discarding their old settings to use everything in your books and only what is in your books?  Are you looking for creative types that like to skim off the top of various settings to make their own world and would pick up 3P's book to get new ideas?  Do you want to sell primarily to DMs, players, or a mixture of both?  The kind of product you release will largely be determined by who you believe your customer to be and what their demands are.  Of course, who you _think_ your customer is and who they _actually_ are may be very different.

*2. Consider the product mix.*  In the table top RPG industry, different types of products cater to different types of customers.  If you boil it down to the basics, however, every book is a combination of crunch and fluff.  Most campaign worlds are about 80% fluff and 20% crunch.  The bulk of the rules you need are in the Core Rulebooks, you just spin new info around them.  Of course, only fanatical gamers who love your setting will buy Fluff books.  The more crunch you put into a product, the higher the likelihood that someone who doesn't play in 3P's setting will want the book anyway.  This, of course, leads into advice #3.

*3. Consider your competition.*  Investing in a campaign setting is expensive.  Sure, you can drop $40 on the primary book, but if you _really_ adopt a setting, you're going to need to buy supplements on monsters, races, magic, and nations.  What can you provide in your world that all the other companies cannot?  What have other companies done that worked and what have they done that did not?  Take, for example, the Scarred Lands.  That campaign setting is a crunch fest, with each new supplement being about 60% fluff and 40% crunch.  However, all the crunch is isolated from the fluff so that you can entirely ignore the world-specific information and use it anywhere.  On the other hand, a setting like Dragonstar weaves the fluff and crunch together so tightly that it becomes trickier to use one aspect of the setting without using another.  Obviously, the looser the setting, the easier it is for people to "sample" your world.  But then you get caught in an endless cycle of needing loose supplements to keep up sales.

*4. Consider using psychology.*  Marketing a product is all about getting in the mind of your customer and making them crave the product.  How you go about doing this really depends on what you're marketing.  Of course, one universal tactic that always works is the idea of "vested interest."  Once a customer has a vested interest in something, they have a feeling of attachment and personal ownership that makes them want to look out for the best interests of the item in question.  Take American Idol.  Here you have a competition that routinely makes one or two pop stars a year.  And their albums sell like mad.  Because the public determines who stays and goes in the show, they feel like they have some active control over the career of the person.  There is an attachement that makes the general public want to help the person along.  If you can build an attachment to your world and products in people, they will support it.  Sword & Sorcery did this through lots of open call work.  But, let's be honest - that's expensive.  I think this thread goes a long way toward building attachement as people get to see you in every step of the process.  Just keep the lines of communication as open as possible on all levels and I think you'll get people interested.  Of course, don't give away too much - that's not good for business either 

 Anyway, take what you want and leave what you don't.  Like I said, I'm not expert.  Just am armchair businessman wishing you the best.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 6, 2004)

My 30 hour stay at the hospital is done andmy wife is doning fine but most likely will not get to come home until Thursday or Friday. I will get back to everyone tomorrow or tonight after I have a nap - my brain is too fogged to be of any use right now.

To those of you who called me last night -  I was not here but I will be tonight. 

Thanks,

PS - Eosin the Red = Randy Madden.

Time for a nap.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 7, 2004)

tonym said:
			
		

> Eosin, one thing confuses me about this whole project: The project seems to be about two different things at the same time: (1) Making a single product that probably won't make any money, but you'll be happy because of the reasons you listed, and (2) making an RPG company that will generate regular bucks.




Hello Tony,

I will reword it to be a little clearer. My goal is to establish and build a successful game company by producing a product line. Failure is failure and always a possibility in this business - so I established the meanings of the words "success" and "Failure" for me.

I can be successful if all that I do is produce one hiney kicking supplement and it totally bombs. I tried and it did not work but I held on my dream and can be one of the very few who say - "I tried darn hard." If I put out something that is substandard or a product that I was not proud of and it sold marginally well then I have still failed. 

The chain of events:
Produce a great module ---> re-invest into second product ---> Put out second product ----> put first product out in paper back --- continue lots of stuff in here ----> Make jump to novels when line is established ----> cultivate licensable properties ----> multimedia deals.

As you can tell the "continue lots of stuff in here" is somewhat broad and ill defined but the early phase might take 3 books - like Privateer Press or it might take 10 books. It might involve rethinking our product lines etc...this section is the re-evaluate and re-implement stage.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 7, 2004)

Estlor said:
			
		

> I may just be a hobbyist with a business degree and no entrepreneurial experience, Eosin, but here's some small tidbits of advice I can pass on:




Those are some well-spoken words and good advice. In fact, thanks to everyone in this thread who has spoken up. I really do appreciate the input. 

I got the chance to sit down with Hal from MEG tonight and he is a riot. We talked about the state of the market, print versus pdf, pricing, art, Cover-2-Cover, and Hal has a 2 year old and a 4 year old while I have a 2 year old and a 3 year old - you always have to talk about your kids.

One of the surprising things about Hal was that I saw allot of myself in him. We are about the same age, game about the same, have similar type of strait laced jobs where we really can't discuss gaming much, and really just want to put out something that we can be proud of and something to occasionally brag about (OK, maybe more than occasionally).

He gave me a seven-course meal to chew on (food for thought) and game me some really helpful pointers. Interestingly, many of the things that he gave the yeah or nay on were things that I was already aware of or at least had a suspicion.

The Last Dominion
The name of my setting. It took me forever to arrive at it but by goodness, I finally nailed the sucker down. I am also exceedingly proud of the name but that is a different story. 

I have a name, a plan, an agenda, an outlet, and my crew is in motion. I think the ball is finally in play. If Steve (Quillion) thought that I was manic before then he ain't seen nothing yet.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 8, 2004)

Today is boring -

In between the kids and the inlaws, I managed to get a little writing done. My first column on two-fisted action is overdue and that is just a freebee.   

I have 45% of the setting nailed down and functional.

[Note to crowd: Steve will probably scream when he notes that the DOC is a little shy of 70 pages and is mostly 2 column with 0.5 margins. It still has some flesh that needs work but I have most of the Key Points to the setting in it.]

I wish that I knew what format the setting contest winners had to write the 100 pager in? You can flesh stuff out and get your mind around many difficult things with 100 pages of overview.

I also read a few of the "what is good about X type adventure" threads that have been cropping up - mostly the DM aspects. It is like taking tele course for school.

Contracts are all settled - now I need to get $$$ flying through the air and crack down on that errant writer (me).


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## Qwillion (Apr 8, 2004)

*Silent partner*

"Note to crowd: Steve will probably scream when he notes that the DOC is a little shy of 70 pages and is mostly 2 column with 0.5 margins. It still has some flesh that needs work but I have most of the Key Points to the setting in it."

Steve goes crazy because he is on a damn dial up connection (I want my cable modem back and msn kept loosing the download)

luckly I am build in the blank spaces within a setting. I have been thinking about the Fallen kingdoms of the Last Domain a lot, I have two pieces done for Freestyle campaigning but I am going farther with them, creating Npc's and going into a bit more detail about how a GM should use them and how they deal with specific issues within the gaming experiance.

The second piece is likely to be the first piece and I even have a friend doing the art for free, 

Fear the Sky should be a very interesting piece.
I think I may do a bit of rewrite on its flavor text though.

(Waves to Nellsir, good to see you) 

I actually get to send money to Eosin next week, still have some running issues with moving that have not resolved themselves as of yet.


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## Qwillion (Apr 9, 2004)

I have been thinking about doing a design diary, to keep me moving along but I don't know, we will have to see.

Since I got absolutly no work done today, the real world sucks.

I do like our new logo though, if you get a chance go take a look just follow the link in my sig.


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## Qwillion (Apr 10, 2004)

Well my best friend's fiance is working on some art for my Freestyle Campaign piece, The first is going to be called Fear the Sky.

I am working for Silven.com today on my Prestige Production series of articles.  You may see some hint at what I have invisioned for some of the Last Dominion as I explore in this months article how to fit the baseline generic prestige classes into different campaign settings.  The month of may will see a prestige production Last Dominion article.

The whole of my weekend is going to be spent working on Here there be monsters and plowing through Eosin's Last Dominion setting bible  (EOSIN! how many pages did it have to be? I mean really)


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## tonym (Apr 10, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> I will reword it to be a little clearer....
> Produce a great module ---> re-invest into second product ---> Put out second product ----> put first product out in paper back --- continue lots of stuff in here ----> Make jump to novels when line is established ----> cultivate licensable properties ----> multimedia deals.




Ah!  Now I get it.  Thanks for boiling everything down to its essence.

Tony


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## Sir Elton (Apr 10, 2004)

Estlor said:
			
		

> *2. Consider the product mix.*  In the table top RPG industry, different types of products cater to different types of customers.  If you boil it down to the basics, however, every book is a combination of crunch and fluff.  Most campaign worlds are about 80% fluff and 20% crunch.  The bulk of the rules you need are in the Core Rulebooks, you just spin new info around them.  Of course, only fanatical gamers who love your setting will buy Fluff books.  The more crunch you put into a product, the higher the likelihood that someone who doesn't play in 3P's setting will want the book anyway.  This, of course, leads into advice #3.




Don't forget the _cream_.  Take a look at a GURPS supplement, and you know what I mean.  GURPS Space was full of crunch, but it had some cream. 
Cream is what makes it more interesting.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 10, 2004)

Sir Elton said:
			
		

> Cream is what makes it more interesting.





GURPs is a great model to emulate and one that is fully in my site.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 11, 2004)

*The first official announcement!*

*The Night of Fire Adventure Line*
The Last Dominion Campaign Setting for the d20 System
Designed by Randy Madden and Steven Russell
Cover by Jeff Ward
Interior Art by Jason McCuiston 
Character Studies by Lee Smith
Cartography by Clayton Bunce
64 pages, PDF
MSRP: $8.95

_
Scholars and mages study the sky seeking to uncover the secrets of the strange lights that streak through the sky. When the sky is glowing, the village folk make signs to ward off evil and scurry into their homes for fear of what is to come. Priests watch the sky and pray; they seek answers from their divine patrons and reassurance for their flocks. If the fire in the sky is an omen, none speak of it.

While the sky is on fire, two dynastic struggles threaten to plunge the kingdom into civil war. The king has disinherited the grandchild of his most powerful vassal, Duke Wingate. Meanwhile, the king's half brother, Prince Caras is marching with his troops in the hopes of claiming the throne he believes is his by the right of birth. 

While the lights dazzle the sky and the nobles play kingmaker, within the forests and mountains of the Eastern Marches sinister plots are coming to fruition. Caught between the forces of heaven and earth, a countess and her son fight for survival on the Night of Fire.
_
*The Night of Fire* is an adventure scenario designed for 1st to 3rd level characters. This module may be played alone or as part of an ongoing campaign.

Written by Randy Madden
Produced by Pencil Pushers Publishing - www.Pencilpushers.net
Coming May 30th


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## Surreptitious (Apr 11, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> *The Night of Fire Adventure Line*
> The Last Dominion Campaign Setting for the d20 System
> Designed by Randy Madden and Steven Russell
> Cover by Jeff Ward
> ...




Very interesing thread, great marketing strategy. Letting us in on your decisions and struggles on the way to creating a succesfull publishing company generates a lot of sympathy.

The teaser for the adventure sounds intriguing - an overall story arch with sinster omens and a war of succesion the start of an epic campaign.

However...
I miss the link to the small beginnings where do the pcs come into the picture?
There is a reference to a countess and her son, do the pcs rescue her or protect her. I would love to have some info on what the adventure is really about. what role do upcomming heroes play in the game of kings and omens?

(this is actually very positive - the teaser has gotten me interested enough to start wondering about these things)

---
on marketing and sales channels: 
PDFs are the way to go from my point of view. Living in Denmark the FLGSs are months behind releases of new products  except for WOTC releases of course.

I usually buy 1 or 2 rpg products a month. PDFs increase my spending range, as I can cut down on the shipping and VAT which often amounts to as much as the product in it self. 

Good luck with your venture


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## Qwillion (Apr 11, 2004)

amusing I get author credits even though randy is really the one writing the adventure, I expect that some of Here there be Monsters will be used in Night of Fire and I imagine we will fit in sidetreks to make use of the Two Fisted Action, and Freestyle campainging logs.

Oh I would love to tell you about the adventure and where the PC's fit in but I will leave that too randy.


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## The Dread Morg (Apr 11, 2004)

Hello Randy!

I've been lurking around your site and this thread, and I wanted to post and say that it sounds like you've got a winner there.  The teaser hits me where I like it, and I look forward to seeing more.  If I might though, IMO, you use the word "sky" too often in the description.  It sort of sounds redundant and throws me off somewhat.  That's the only critique I'd offer though.  The rest of it sounds good, and gives sort of a "dynastic psedu-political" feeling to the world.  (Subject matter near and dear to my heart as you know.)    

I wish you and Qwill the best of luck, and you can count on at least one definite sale!


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 13, 2004)

Been a busy week. Real busy.

My email has been on the fritz for the last 24-36 hours. Sometimes I get the normal flow of mail and sometimes nothing for hours. I know that I am missing stuff cause I sent myself 3 emails from work yesterday and those are gone. I also see some quotes on the various lists that I am on that reference posts I did not receive.

Since I could not get at the email last night and I had to work, I ended up doing some research some for setting and some for publishing.

I looked at several company’s submission guidelines and release forms. Some of them read like a legal enema and others are full of piss and vinegar. I really liked the stuff by White Wolf. My co-workers kept wondering why I would occasionally laugh aloud. Yep, it is that funny. 

I pondered a setting description or setting blurb. I checked out what other people put out and much to my surprise, NO ONE has a setting blurb anywhere (OK, 7th Sea does but it is well hidden). Kalamar also had one but it nearly put me to sleep and I like Kalamar!

What to know what the Scarred Lands are like? Me too. I could not find it. Want a nice blurb about the Forgotten Realms or Greyhawk? Me too. What about the Iron Kingdoms? At least they had something but the blurb told me exactly what I would know within seconds of picking up a product – Steam, machines, and no holds barred art.

I am still pondering what this means. I need a setting for my non-businessy, business plan as bass ackwards as it may be.  

Lack of sleep has turned me into a chump. This has more to do with the wife being out of commission than it does with anything else. 

I read several pages of veteran RPG writers and designers giving the whoozit about publishing, writing, game design, and grammar. I still don’t know the difference between loose and lose. I suspect it will say that on my grave. Thank goodness for editors. The advice is keen and cutting. If you want to get the skinny then head to places like S. John Ross’s website, then start looking at company submissions and art submissions statements. 

I just noticed something that is a big ole boo-boo. When talking with people, I figured out that I would need to bump my planned adventure from 32 to 64 pages if I wanted to see print. I did this. Now I realize, I am shy on art. I am going to need a hook other than just a standard adventure – i.e. give DMS something that they can reuse for more than just the life of the module. Finally, I just realized that if the writer (me) was in a hurt locker before, at this point he is FUBAR. It is like 3 or 4 days after posting my announcement and I am going to have to change the release date. 

Why does this suck? I am glad you asked. I had planned to squeak this bad boy into the ENNies and then cross my fingers and hope that it is good enough to garner some attention. Even making into the top 3 of any category would equate to real dollars in sales for a brand new company. I know that I did not buy Magical Medieval Society until it had won and I had “proof” that it did not suck. That proof or “street cred” is probably invaluable and now I will have to wait 16 months to see anything from it (the ceremony is in August and IF I was to produce something that made any cut but hit the street after May 31st then it will not be known until August 2005).

This is a real fish or cut bait scenario I have found myself in. No answer is a good answer – so I turn to my trusty goal statement and the least acceptable level of success for me is to produce something that I am proud to have my name on. I think that means that the date is going to get kicked back but that raises all kinds of money issues.

I am still working on “THE SETTING BIBLE.” Not so much adding things to the document as I am refining the ideas, increasing word precision and boiling things down to the bare minimum needed to convey what is needed. While doing this, I am wrangling with my partner about various names [I did mention that I was a name freak before didn’t I?]. I think I hit pay dirt today with some stuff on a race. Excuse the technical terms but I have an ELDER RACE who are SECRET GUARDIANS mixed with dose of PIRIAH ELITE [Think Vulcans, Mimbari, Middle-earth elves and the like]. I wanted them to be different than the often-lamented “Tolkien Races” but not so different that people did not “get” them. A little does of Celtic myth goes a long way in this case. 

While I am on that, we have nearly finished the first collaborative re-imagining of FRP using minotaurs. I am anxious to see how well it goes over. Steven did the initial write, then I edited and added in some text. Steven took my stuff did some more adding and subtracting then handed it over to an editor. There are still some minor issues with the piece but I can see the shine in the article already. 

Anyway, I head back to work tomorrow after a week of being mom, dad, and everything else. I should finally be able to get some writing done.

PS - Thanks for the tip Morgish one. I will see about a tweak.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 14, 2004)

Surreptitious said:
			
		

> Very interesing thread, great marketing strategy. Letting us in on your decisions and struggles on the way to creating a succesfull publishing company generates a lot of sympathy.
> 
> The teaser for the adventure sounds intriguing - an overall story arch with sinster omens and a war of succesion the start of an epic campaign.
> 
> ...





Thanks for the kind words. Here are some thoughts.

The Night of Fire will place the intrepid free swords – or not so free swords, in the line of fire between several of the powerful noble families of Middea. I am working on the hooks for several of the character classes so that the adventure starts off in a little different manner but the basic premise is to help the countess and her son.

There will be options for playing the Countess or most likely her son. Additionally, the region will be set up in Eden Games, Fields of Blood realm management system. This will allow players and game masters to run a strategic and tactical game depending on their gaming preferences. 

Long term, your group or your character will become involved in the dynastic struggles and if lucky you will uncover the omens of the Night of Fire. The setting will play to more human oriented adversaries, the kind who kill their nephews for a few years on the throne. 

One of the things that I will focus on in the Adventures is to work classes like Paladins, Wizards, and Clerics.  There will be encounters that are keyed to these types of characters.

For example, I have come up with a series of small encounters that will interact with a paladin type - they will receive dire omens from dead things. Only the paladin will ever see them – skeletons at a crossroads that recite poems, road kill that whisper secrets to him when no one is looking, etc… All of these warnings will lead the paladin into town and eventually into the service of the Countess and her son. Who knows why the warnings started or what they mean? But the paladin will soon ask to have some company when walking near grave yards.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 17, 2004)

I have spent most of the last few days getting ready to run a Wheel of Time adventure for the OKC gameday. I understand that people will be showing up – but precious few bothered to post to the thread. I hope it is fun either way.

I have been working with the various artists. The interior is nearly done – but as noted above I will need to at least double the amount of interior work since the size of the book has doubled.

The character studies are getting started, plus I hope to unveil the logo for “The Last Dominion” line sometime this week. It is strange when you can talk to an artist and they can pull an image right from your head, only better. Lee Smith, one of the artists, also let me know that he reads this thread.  ;p 

I am officially revising my publish date. There is no way that I can make the May 30th dead line. The revision is good for me cause it takes a huge amount of stress off me. I am still pondering the new release date but I expect that to be July-ish, prior to the Gencon drought.

The cover is also coming along well. We had to make some revisions and move a few things but I could see what I wanted in the rough pencils. 

Let’s go back to Lee for a minute. Last night he told me he would rather have an AD [Art Director] tell him what was wrong or if an image needed to be changed rather than just accept it and then either:

A) Not publish it.
B) Voice dissatisfaction after the fact.

That came in handy today and last night. It is good knowing that professional artists (not all of them obviously) feel this way. It takes a load off me when I want something a little different. IT was much easier sending a reply saying “how bout we move this here and cut this guys hair.” I probably would have accepted it before and felt slightly disappointed. A warning though, artists are such for a reason – non artists should listen carefully to why they did things the way they did. I also dislike quibblers…..a fine line that one.

Second part: Writing. Writing. Writing but what am I writing?

Working with others is a real pain in the hindquarters. Even more so when what you are doing is not standard and you are a demanding freak  J

First, I did get the adventure outline done and firmed up. Second, most of the writing was about how to write for The Last Dominion.  I have a setting bible that gives some flavor and explains some things but I really needed something that said – these are the themes, these are the moods, these are the motifs and symbolism that should be used in The Last Dominion. I am nearly done.

Here is a question for anyone who wants to pipe up and offer their opinion. The “Writers Guide” will have information that if given to readers and players would “spoil” some of the fun of the setting. How do I manage this? Do I require a NDA? Gentleman’s agreement since I don’t have the money to sue anyone anyways? It is kinda tricky.

Anyway --- I am very interested in what you have to say on this subject.

BTW – only White Wolf [WoD] tells the writers/freelancers “how to write” for the WoD. Kinda strange.

I have some more ideas on PR and Line Direction and as usual these are not things that I have seen done before (probably for good reason). It will be interesting to see what I think after the game day – I am gonna talk to some folks and run the ideas by them.


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## The Dread Morg (Apr 18, 2004)

I would think that a NDA would suffice, especially if you are working with folks who are (or want to be) professional freelancers.  If your secrets of campaing are leaked, then it would reflect badly on the freelancer(s) who spilt the beans, and that sort of stuff likely gets around the community fairly quickly, and could be damaging to their future credability.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 19, 2004)

Thanks for the input Morg.

I hope to have the guide done tomorrow. Like you, I am leaning towards a NDA.....I suppose that I will need to get my greedy little paws on one of those.


I am having hell with The Last Dominion logo. It goes on everything and I am waffling on the colors/looks. This is not a decsion to waffle on!

Randy

PS - the game day for OKC was awesome and I had a blast running the Wheel of Time game.


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## Tuzenbach (Apr 19, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> *The Night of Fire Adventure Line*
> The Last Dominion Campaign Setting for the d20 System
> Designed by Randy Madden and Steven Russell
> Cover by Jeff Ward
> ...



 You've made two mistakes so far:

1. Establishing a website geared towards the distribution of either free product or product for sale......WITH NO PRODUCT!!! What you SHOULD HAVE done (I know, hindsight is 20/20) would have been to launch the website and the product(s) SIMULTANEOULSY. As it stands, you have a website that potential consumers have already passed judgement on. What'll bring them back, pleasant emails? A good way to lose customers is to make them wait, i.e., "Look what I've got! Oh, but it won't be ready for another eight weeks. Sorry!" Would you like it if someone did that to you?

2. Product description: OK, I've been reading the bulk of this thread for the past hour and you're quite a communicative and thorough writer. Why the hell is it, then, that you've put the word "sky" twice in the opening (the most important) sentence?!?! Again, as a consumer, I'd be driven to your competition based soley upon the first sentence of your first product's description. Did I even bother to read the following sentences? WOULD YOU HAVE? Rewrite the first sentence and replace the first "sky" with "heavens" or "stars" or "celestial bodies" or similar lore. DO IT! Then (and ONLY THEN!) will I be able to read the following sentences.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 19, 2004)

*The Night of Fire Adventure Line*
The Last Dominion Campaign Setting for the d20 System
Designed by Randy Madden and Steven Russell
Cover by Jeff Ward
Interior Art by Jason McCuiston 
Character Studies by Lee Smith
Cartography by Clayton Bunce
64 pages, PDF
MSRP: $8.95

_
Scholars and mages study the heavens seeking to uncover the secrets of the strange lights that streak through the sky. Village folk make signs to ward off evil and scurry into their homes for fear of what is to come. Priests watch and pray; they seek answers from their divine patrons and reassurance for their flocks. If the fire in the sky is an omen, none speak of it.

In Middea, two dynastic struggles threaten to plunge the kingdom into civil war. The king has disinherited the grandchild of his most powerful vassal, Duke Wingate. Meanwhile, the king's half brother, Prince Caras is marching with his troops in the hopes of claiming the throne he believes is his by the right of birth. 

Caught between the forces of heaven and earth, a countess and her son fight for survival on the Night of Fire.
_
*The Night of Fire* is an adventure scenario designed for 1st to 3rd level characters. This module may be played alone or as part of an ongoing campaign.

Written by Randy Madden
Produced by Pencil Pushers Publishing - www.Pencilpushers.net


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 19, 2004)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> You've made two mistakes so far:
> 
> 1. Establishing a website geared towards the distribution of either free product or product for sale......WITH NO PRODUCT!!! [SNIP]
> 
> 2. Product description: OK, I've been reading the bulk of this thread.....





Well now,  

Thanks for the direct advice. I hope the corrected release sounds a little better and I will administer 3 floggings to myself 

Part one,
I can agree with this on some points BUT I plan on having some stuff up by the end of this week or the beginning of the next. We ***PLAN*** on offering a little free ditty every 1-3 weeks to get a reputation until product comes out. I want people to know 3P before they spend money on 3P....but you still have a valid point.

Thanks for your comments. 

Anything else I need to fix


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## Tuzenbach (Apr 19, 2004)

Eosin the Red said:
			
		

> *The Night of Fire Adventure Line*
> The Last Dominion Campaign Setting for the d20 System
> Designed by Randy Madden and Steven Russell
> Cover by Jeff Ward
> ...





It's better. It's still a little convoluted, but it's definitely better. There seems an awful lot of information to absorb there. Remember, the "blurb" should be geared towards bringing in customers, not confusing them with extraneous details. Think of how movie trailers are presented. You want a couple of 3-4 sentence paragraphs that are easily digested by the populace and succeed in making them want to read more.


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## Qwillion (Apr 20, 2004)

never mind I lost my mind on this post, I am going to go look for it


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 22, 2004)

I have some of the artwork back from Jason, the interior artist.

This is called Ill Omen.


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 22, 2004)

Qwillion said:
			
		

> I would like to announce that the website is not offically launched as of yet.




Well, the website is launched, we just are not pimping it.


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## Qwillion (Apr 24, 2004)

I love the picture , though I wish you could see someones facial reaction too it. Yet I think the idea of looking up and being full of awe is portayed well, The askewed point of view is a nice way of showing that it upsets the world.

I assume this was Jason who did the artwork (though it does not say as much, shame on you for not giving an artist his due, then again you paid him for it LMAO!)


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## Qwillion (Apr 24, 2004)

*Silven and new introductions*

At Eosins Request (and chigrin that he did not write these) here are some product intros and our business philosphy.

they appeared originally in the Silven.com forums where you can also find a free preview of Here there be Monsters! Quillion's Quill #19: Pencil Pushers Publishing


 Pencil Pushers Publishing is a d20 company that strives for a sense of the mythical in its products, our philosphy is to put out only truly great products that we believe in. 

The first two releases from Pencil Pushers Publishing are:


*The Nights of Fire Adventure Series** by Randy Madden*  

Cover by Jeff Ward
Interior Art by Jason McCuiston
Character Studies by Lee Smith
Cartography by Clayton Bunce
64 pages, PDF

Nights of Fire is a 1st level introductory adventure series set in the world of The Last Dominion. A world stuggling against the corruption and evil within us all given form in the plauge of darkness known as The Ennwrathi

Nights of Fire combines hard hitting action adventure with the struggles of family and political intrigue. 

*Here there be Monsters** by Steven Russell *
Edited by David Paul
A Supplement for All Levels of Play

The mythical nature of The Last Dominion changes all that you thought you knew about monsters. You will find unique varients of your favorite monsters. Players will be facinated by monstrous races that dominate the north. GMs will find gleeful ammusement in threatening and corrupting thier players with those monsters born of the Ennwrathi, and those who have chosen to embrace it. 

Here There Be Mosnters promises to be a gaming supplement beyond what gone before!


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 24, 2004)

Qwillion said:
			
		

> they appeared originally in the Silven.com forums where you can also find a free preview of Here there be Monsters! Quillion's Quill #19: Pencil Pushers Publishing




Do yourself a favor and go read the creation myth of the Taurians. It is a fine example of the re-imagination of mythology and FRPGs that I have been speaking about.

Those are some bold titles


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## Qwillion (Apr 26, 2004)

well your the one leaping in without his pants on!

we might as well have bold titles


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## philreed (Apr 26, 2004)

tonym said:
			
		

> Changing (1) to read, "Make $500 profit with the first product and invest that money back into the company"...now THAT seems to lead to (2).  IMHO, of course.  I'm not a business person.




You may not be a business person but that's exactly what I did. My PDF sales have grown from about $200/month to about $2,000/month in about 18 months. By starting with nothing more than my time I was able to build on the sales of each product until I had generated enough to invest in purchasing an older game line. I then tripled that investment.

Spending $1,000+ on artwork for a PDF seems a bit foolish to me. There are so many resources out there for artwork that would cost much less and there's always the option of partnering with an artist.

I do find this thread very interesting.


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## MEG Hal (Apr 26, 2004)

philreed said:
			
		

> You may not be a business person but that's exactly what I did. My PDF sales have grown from about $200/month to about $2,000/month in about 18 months. By starting with nothing more than my time I was able to build on the sales of each product until I had generated enough to invest in purchasing an older game line. I then tripled that investment.
> 
> Spending $1,000+ on artwork for a PDF seems a bit foolish to me. There are so many resources out there for artwork that would cost much less and there's always the option of partnering with an artist.
> 
> I do find this thread very interesting.





Phil is a great story about pdf success.  As for $1000+ on art, way too much.  Also if you need to see a NDA drop me a line and I will send you a copy of mine.

Keep posting!


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## Qwillion (Apr 27, 2004)

Yes no paying artist more than you pay the writers :>


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## Eosin the Red (Apr 27, 2004)

philreed said:
			
		

> Spending $1,000+ on artwork for a PDF seems a bit foolish to me. There are so many resources out there for artwork that would cost much less and there's always the option of partnering with an artist.
> 
> I do find this thread very interesting.




Appreciate the comments Phil.

I figure that history will judge me somewhere between foolish and genius but then it will do the same for most of us.   Those numbers are  generalizations and not specifically for one project or one use art.

The second point is that the lowest level of success is that I do something that I will make me proud to have my name on. If it goes on to make money bully for me (and Steve).   This is not my livelihood, nor will writing game material ever be a means of income for me in all likelihood. I need to define a game world and make it bite while detailing a module, a setting book, and a source book – clip art could get me the basic sales but it won’t convey the setting. I also hope to do more than PDF but that remains to be seen.

Partnering with an artist would be a dream for me.  



			
				MEG Hal said:
			
		

> Phil is a great story about pdf success.  As for $1000+ on art, way too much.  Also if you need to see a NDA drop me a line and I will send you a copy of mine.
> 
> Keep posting!




Thanks Hal. I will snag your NDA and compare it to the one I have. It think the art is in the ballpark price range of what we discussed on the phone. I just added a little something special in there.



			
				Qwillion said:
			
		

> Yes no paying artist more than you pay the writers :>




I think you better get used to it Steve. Artists make allot more than the writers and bigger the name, the greater the disparity. Want to guess what Lockwood, Brom, or T. Nielsen charge for a cover? I bet it is more than any writer makes for 32 pages. The lowest rung of Pro Painter gets $200 to $500 for a cover [mind you, these guys are still pro], which takes substantially less time to do than 32 pages of writing [I read once that WotC considered each writer to be capable of a 32 page module unit per month]. 

Speaking of art. Wow, has 3P had a week full of problems in that department. Some things are private so this will just be a footnote – remember that compassion and understanding comes before any project. 

Finances are kicking my hind end. Badly. Some things like legal and accounting are being delayed. All the business people out there are screaming! NO!! However, no product means no cash flow, and no cash flow means that the legal and accounting fees were for nothing. I chalk most of this up to my outrageous medical bills…..I like to brag about how expensive it is to have a freaky heart problem. A little perspective for you: I have good insurance after all, I am technically faculty at the University of Oklahoma. I am a RN, father of 3.5, own a home and have one newer car for the wife and one clunker for me. Middle America. In 3 months, I have paid more than my income for the same period in medical bills. Ouch. It is part of the whole reason that I am doing this though. 

You know that stupid question what would you do if the DR told you that you were dying? I know. They were wrong but the initial diagnosis was pretty darn grim and it ruined my massive PbeM Birthright game, hard to worry bout the ole PbeM when you are figuring out how old your kids might be when you go and what you taught them. I have always been a bit of a chicken when it came to sticking my neck out personally on a non-physical level [I can run into burning buildings and confront an armed man who wants to kill my patient so it is not that kind of fear]. For some people, it is better to dream of being someone like Robert Jordan or Steven Spielburg than to actually attempt to live that dream. You know – I know you do. The guys will always talk you up. They will say, “Dude, your stuff is as good as anything out there.” As long as you never try, the dream is still possible but the moment you try and fail then everyone knows it. No one can say – “Dude….” Reality has demonstrated that you tried and most likely failed. It is the same thing for basketball dreams, for music players and for all of the other people in this world who fear failure while striving for a dream more than they fear never realizing it. If you never try, you can still hold on to the secret dream.

I am facing this specter now. Part of me is terrified of failure. Terrified that it will crush the dream. A hard thing to wrestle with when you are trying to write. I also have no one to blame….that is a real bear. ;P If someone else could share part of the blame it would be easier to point a finger and say, “It is hard to soar like an eagle while surrounded by turkeys.”  

Now, back to the real story. I am still working on peripheral issues, getting the NDA done, getting the writing guide up, getting the setting bible hammered out, writing stuff to get Steve in place and generally avoiding my real work. Actually, the setting stuff is my real work so I don’t feel bad about that.

I have some thought that I would like to go over on some different vehicles for publishing but that will have to wait for tomorrow.


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## jgbrowning (Apr 27, 2004)

Eventually, we all fail, Eosin the Red. Do your best, that's the best you can do. And if you don't do your best, that's the best _you wanted_ to do. Our quality is measured by how we deal with it.

IMHO,

joe b.


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## Qwillion (Apr 28, 2004)

We are always thankful of everyone's support.  I am kind of a similar finacial boat, I lost my job, car, licence, wife, and house awile back. I was just getting back on my feat when Eosin said hey come be my partner, I know Eosin, I know how good he really is, I could never turn that down.  Hell I have had people tell me that my stuff was very good but, I never had the motivation to act on my dream, I have been doing stuff for Silven and a few other companies(enkwell, arms &armor 3.5, Soul Harvest II).  It has made given me the dicipline to become a much better writer (not to mention David Paul our editor does such an amazing job.) 

No matter what. I am here as long as Eosin wants me.

Now back to work on Here there be Monsters and Freestyle campaigning

Oh and again thanks for your support


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## Guillaume (Apr 28, 2004)

Hey guys, I've been following your progress.  I find it very stimulating.  Good luck with your venture and keep this thread going.  It's a gold mine for information.


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## Qwillion (May 4, 2004)

Well with everything going on in the world I took a week off from P3.

I have moved everything from my storage unit into my new house (I am dead poor) but looks like other than just the regular bills I will be be out of the whole and on solid ground in two weeks.

I gamed yeasterday, and it was the first game where I was not playtesting something, boy when you set on design, sometimes you forget why you enjoy this so much.  

So now fully refreshed with batteries recharged I am looking over stuff that I did the week before (check out Prestige Production III nothing new in all the world at the D20 section of silven.com and Quillion's Quill: Questspire Feats in the Silven Trumpeter)

I got to look at a piece of artwork done by my friend Amanda Roth is doing for Freestyle Campaigning. She did the skeleton of the new monster I was introducing and had it attacking the giant eagles from lord of the rings (because eagles solve everything she says)

I feel great, I hope everyone else does too, I have a lot in mind for what is going to do this week talk to you all later


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## Eosin the Red (May 6, 2004)

Thought I forgot about, didn’t you    

Well, I did not. I have been trying to get a free adventure put together. It should be 2-3 pages but has grown into a 10-page beast. For a free ditty, it has taken a little too much effort. I think I can finish up on it in the next few days and then get some editing done – then PDF the bad boy and off we go.

Conundrum: I have a pretty robust website but Morrus has proven to me in the past that it is not robust enough if something is offered for free on Enworld. So, now I have to figure out how to get the bad boy out to the public when the time comes. 

We started working on the Friday Five for next week here on Enworld. I expect a boatload of comments. I think it is discouraging when no one makes any comments.

I managed to scoop up some artwork on the cheap. I did not have the money but looked at it as saving myself $300.00 over the next 3 months.  

So, where were we? Oh yeah, I was gonna verbalize my crazy idea.

I have run a website for a long time. Nothing big but it was my corner of the universe. If I thought up some cool stuff, I posted and usually had feed back within a few hours. I miss that. I run a website – start a game company – write stuff because I want to share. That leaves me at a disadvantage because I want people to enjoy the Last Dominion Setting more than I want their money.

I got to thinking about making it a “SHAREWARE” world but I don’t know how you could do that and still break even at minimum. I think that I will have to ponder this issue some more. The idea is something like a shared world but without the shared part   Too many cooks make piss poor stew. 

Now, have you played RPG? That is what I have been doing when I am too whacked to write.


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## Eosin the Red (May 9, 2004)

I have been busy typing away and trying to get a few projects done. You can expect the first free adventure in a week or two - the question now is art or no art? It is free and I find myself hard pressed to justify spending money on a give-away but you only get one first impression right?

Tough decision.

I have some more art! The desire to have good art has been something of a surprise to me. I suppose it should not be, I have a track record of being damn picky about what my name is on. When I write I do fine but during editing, I agonize over each word and punctuation. I take literally years researching the meanings of words, symbols, motifs, giving everything layers of depth that probably only I will ever see. Why wouldn't I be picky about art?

I had some cool thoughts on the commute home tonight, but alas they now elude me.

I was thinking about how many considered opinions like to tell me where I am wrong, why X will not work, or why the Last Dominion will not work. I can't recall exactly what thought pattern led me to this wonderful little happy place. I am gonna try to rework it out and write it up right after I finish my Friday Five interview. Dang, I have a crapload of writing. 

Anyway here is a little something to oogle.

Please do not repost this image.

The artist is Lee Smith - Website


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## Janx (May 9, 2004)

I think the way you do shareware RPGs is either PDF publishing, or volunteer donations for site hosting.


PDFs are like shareware, in that technically, they can be pirated, but honest fans will pay for it.  The cost is pretty low compared to big-name publishers.

The other suggestion, making the site a donation site might work.  That's kind of what enworld and RealmWorx sites are.  Fan supported.  There's risk in this plan, as it may not be clear on what your site is providing (therefore encouraging me to pay for it).

The PDF plan, which is pretty much what you're doing already seems solid enough.  You make something somebody wants, somebody pays you for it.  I'd probably make your site support that objective.  In theory, you want to spawn interest in your product.  Mostly then, fiction, map snippets, stuff that I could use to play in your world at a basic level would be good.  Just enough to get me interested, but I'll have to pay money to really get the material.  A conversion guide might be a useful freebie.  A basic world or region map.  Maybe a pantheon summary (showing god and domain) which doubles as a useful look-up sheet for a DM.

Janx


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## Whisper72 (May 11, 2004)

Hmmm... on the issue of shareware and wanting more to have ppl enjoy the setting then wanting their money. Why should those things conflict? If you produce good stuff, nobody is going to begrude you earning some money with it. The only thing to keep in mind is to have a good price/quality ratio.

If you really want to share some stuff for free, maybe create a sort of 'light' version of the campaignworld which is free for download together with some 'teaser' small adventures and locales, but the more in-depth stuff and the larger adventures are paid for stuff.

That way people can have a free sniff at your products but you're not giving away all your efforts for free.

As for the 'fan support' for the website, the two things do not bite eachother. You could easily do both. Have a paypal account to which ppl can support the site itself.

The basics of business is all about whether ppl like your product enuff to pay for it. If the price/quality ratio is good, nobody will feel ripped. And everybody understands that while you are putting time into all these nice products, you and your family need something to eat and drink every now and then...


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## Eosin the Red (May 11, 2004)

Those are some good ideas!

I think mixing



> You make something somebody wants, somebody pays you for it. I'd probably make your site support that objective. In theory, you want to spawn interest in your product. Mostly then, fiction, map snippets, stuff that I could use to play in your world at a basic level would be good. Just enough to get me interested, but I'll have to pay money to really get the material. A conversion guide might be a useful freebie. A basic world or region map. Maybe a pantheon summary (showing god and domain) which doubles as a useful look-up sheet for a DM.




AND



> If you really want to share some stuff for free, maybe create a sort of 'light' version of the campaign world which is free for download together with some 'teaser' small adventures and locales, but the more in-depth stuff and the larger adventures are paid for stuff.




Might get me just the right mix. 

A variant of this whole concept would be to create something like the community supporter accounts here at ENworld. Where $$ XX in donations would entitle the subscriber to all of the products in the year, you could also do things like providing members with blank maps, access to map libraries (like the stuff Dungeon did before it went to Piazo), and setting art (all of this for personal use, of course).

Hmmmm.? It might be an interesting experiment.


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## Qwillion (May 12, 2004)

The thought I am having is a fan supproted city the way Raven's Bluff should have been done.

A place that can be built by submissions alone. Where we put out a small product that is entirely Open Content.


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## Whisper72 (May 12, 2004)

Hmm... on the community supporter idea, you could create 'tiers' of supporters (i.e. silver, gold and platinum membership), with varied access to the stuff you put out. Problem with this is however the timing issue. If the membership is a yearly charge, then as a long time platinum member, I'd be pissed if someone went platinum some years down the line, and downloaded all the cool stuff on a single year's membership fee.

Another idea is to have the membership be a discount to your products. I.e. silver gets 20%, gold gets 40% and platinum gets 60% (figures natch only 'for example'). This way, through the memberhsip fees you have a guaranteed income stream from which to pay running operating costs. Now all you need to do is make some forecasts of expected sales and costs to establish the costs of these memberships such that membership provides a significant bonus for being a member without giving away everything for too little.

On the shareware/cocreation, I think Eosin's statement that many cooks make a poor stew is very true. Sure, some great stuff may be brought on, but you'll spend alot of time reviewing and editing to make everything fit together and of the right quality level. All of this will detract from precious time you should be spending on putting out money earning products... If you want input from fans, you can always run contests etc. (worked fine for WotC!). The Forge has one now, where ppl can enter locales for example.

Not a bad idea, if you want to flesh out the world with fan-input, ask ppl to write up a country / province / whatever, and take the same road as WotC did. First ask for a small, straightjacketed description (saves you time reading through hundreds of pages of stuff), and then ask a select few who show they 'have the stuff' in terms of quality and style to mesh with your campaign world, to write their ideas out in more detail.

As reward you can either give a free membership or royalties to some spin-off products (or just give some of your pay-for products to them for free).

Anyhoo, enuff talk, time to show us your stuff!!!


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## Eosin the Red (May 14, 2004)

Today is the Friday Five Day. 

Guess what? I vastly over estimated my ability to produce stuff. Between the responsibilities of coordinating everyone, being the art director, writing contracts and corporate documents, working with Steve, writing Two-Fisted Action (going to editing tomorrow or Monday) and this column, I am not quite half way into the rough draft of the first book of the Night of Fire. Well, sue me. 

It is surprising how little time I get to spend writing the modules because I am writing something else. I am working on a glossary, filling in all the big holes in the setting, and still doing that nit-picky research that I love so much. I have polished up a fiction piece and hopefully will be able to put it up on the website after Dave, the editor for 3P tells me if I suck or not. This is my first attempt since college creative writing to tell a story through conversation.

Lee Smith has posted a few pieces of Artwork for the setting over at RPG.net – if you want to take a look at some of his stunning art just click here.

I have an interesting class this weekend – Advanced Hazmat Life Support. This should be fun but my boss is the instructor, uccch! I should really write some modern adventure stuff.....I know all kinds of crazy whacked out stuff. I thought about buying the book on poisons but I figured that I would just nit pick it so....

To sum up, 

--- New Art
--- New Interview
--- New Fiction
--- No new product
--- More promises of “soon” for the free adventure
--- We are still truckin, just not real fast


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## Whisper72 (May 14, 2004)

Hmmm.... okay, some (unasked for) questions / advice...

From the looks of your last post, you need to get some focus. Make a to do list and work them off one by one. The most simple and straightforward way to keep yourself doing the things you need doing.

Some of the top prio things should prolly be:
- the website
- a first piece of free stuff (to let ppl sniff at stuff)
- a first piece of pay-for stuff (to let the cash flow towards you in stead of only away from you)

As to the website, the following comment I have. Why is the colorful wizard figure replaced on most parts of the site with the colorless 3P logo?? The site is already pretty dull and cold colorwise, the wizard pushing his pencil was a very fine 'logo' for the the site in terms of adding a bit of color without making the whole site garish. I do not know about others, but personally I liked the version before MUCH better then how it looks/feels now. Use the 3P logo purely a product logo, and put it on the website somewere in a lower corner for recognitive purposes, but keep the wizard in the left upper corner to spice up the site a bit.

I think it is pretty important for you to get a product to market fast. You are currently riding a wave of sympathy. Lots of ppl who read this thread, you just had the F5 interview thingy, and made a lot of noise across several boards. Now it is still news and at the forefront of ppl's minds. The attention span of consumers is deplorably short however. Within a few weeks most of this goodwill will have evaporated. There is even a risk of a downside. Having promised good stuff to come along soon, in a few weeks the first potential customers will already get this unfocused feeling of being somehow cheated / that you do not meet expectations, and will develop slight antipathy towards your company. It is best not to reach this state, as it will mean additional effort on your part to overcome this.

Anyhoo, just thought to give you some free advice (most of my clients pay me the equivalent of USD200 per hour for this type of advice....) cuz I think it would be a shame if an effort begun with so much energy flounders unnecessarily. Keep up the good work, and I hope to see stuff from you soon...


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## Eosin the Red (May 14, 2004)

> I think it is pretty important for you to get a product to market fast. You are currently riding a wave of sympathy. Lots of ppl who read this thread, you just had the F5 interview thingy, and made a lot of noise across several boards. Now it is still news and at the forefront of ppl's minds. The attention span of consumers is deplorably short however. Within a few weeks most of this goodwill will have evaporated. There is even a risk of a downside. Having promised good stuff to come along soon, in a few weeks the first potential customers will already get this unfocused feeling of being somehow cheated / that you do not meet expectations, and will develop slight antipathy towards your company. It is best not to reach this state, as it will mean additional effort on your part to overcome this.
> 
> Anyhoo, just thought to give you some free advice (most of my clients pay me the equivalent of USD200 per hour for this type of advice....) cuz I think it would be a shame if an effort begun with so much energy flounders unnecessarily. Keep up the good work, and I hope to see stuff from you soon...




This was exactly the conversation that I was having inside my own head last night during the 45 minute commute home from work.

You helped voice many of the things that been working in the back of my head. Thank you, I can see why you get the $200.00. 

PS - I changed the wizard back and did some tweaking.

Randy -

PS - thank you again. Your post helped ground some important issues.


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## Whisper72 (May 15, 2004)

De Nada, always glad to help a fellow gamer. 

I must admit I am somewhat envious that you get to follow your dream. Being of the 'Paragon Consultant' (tm) prestige class myself I am better at telling others how to do things well then doing those same things myself... Your thread has gotten me to the point tho that whenever I get a job that allows for a bit more structured set of working hours and a bit more leisure time, I will definately try my best at following in your footsteps...

The best of luck


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## Eosin the Red (May 26, 2004)

Well, it has been a little bit since I posted.

The Ringmasters, a free introductory module is done with writing and is beginning the editing phase. Hopefully, I don’t get a note telling me to fire the writer  

This has been a lesson in discipline. I lack a whole bunch of it. I prefer to research, doing setting stuff, and gab much more than I like to write modules. It was hard to stay on target. This will be an issue that I am going to have to address at some point if the company does well. The boss can’t be a loafer 

Art is done barring two pieces. That is good news. 

Overall, things are starting to firm up but I think our realistic timetables are going to cause some consternation to our customers. There are a number of work arounds for this type of thing but none of them are viable until I see what the first product(s) do in the market place. I am also still entertaining the idea of a “shareware” world, which may confound the issue further.

The Ringmasters should be available soon – but no set date yet. My best guess is sometime next week. It is about 16 pages of adventure [not counting stat blocks, creatures, magic items, or other sundry space hogs]. It does not have any art but will contain 3 maps.


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## Qwillion (May 27, 2004)

I am thinking of asking my near and dear friend amanda to do a free piece for the circus setting but we will see.


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## pogre (May 27, 2004)

I like the return to the Wizard for a logo - very cool piece.


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## resistor (May 27, 2004)

Hey Eosin!

I'm really impressed with everything you're doing.  That's basically my dream too: to have my own setting published.  I've sort of vaguely worked at it for years, but I have a really hard time organizing it in a manner someone else can follow.  I would kill to get the template for the WotC 100-page write-ups!

So I wanted to ask you: how did you organize your setting bible?  I'm stuck at a point where I have solid ideas, but am not ready to actually transform them into product without some serious organizational work.

Thanks, and good luck!


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## Connorsrpg (May 27, 2004)

*Another Footstepper*

Yes, I too am one who has considered doing just what you are doing Randy (few of us closet writers out there hey)?

I am very impresseed with the research that you are putting into issues, that well, to be honest, I hadn't even considered.  There must be some site out there that would love a whole bunch of freelancers 

I have worked on a setting for many years and have recently joined with 2 friends to combine 3 takes into 1.  This thread has gathered together some VERY important considerations and many helpful links and ideas too.  Kudos to you for putting this out there 'warts and all' to see what is required to make it in the industry.

I will be watching this space with anticipation

Would love to work on a similar project.  Wow.

Oh, and I hope your wife is fine.  Nice touch of 'person' to your approach and these posts.  That too is nice to see...and helpful, as all of us aspiring writers wonder how all this balances with other writers/gamers home lives.

Cheers guys, Connors


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## Eosin the Red (May 28, 2004)

I have some initial reports back from the draft of Ringmasters and many rough lessons were learned there in. 

Lessons:
1.	On free stuff start out with a clear and simple objective – in this I failed. I just started writing and let the adventure take me where it would.
2.	Keep a well-organized draft section. I lost 5-7 pages in one fell swoop because I was not properly organized.
3.	Make sure that your project dovetails into the setting and line in theme and style – another major failure on my part.
4.	Figure out how long it will take you to do it – add a month for all the editing and proofing and then double it.

I am going to have to do a bit of surgery on the module. It does not fit well with the rest of the setting as pointed out by an astute reader. I can’t believe that I did not catch it sooner. There is good news – everybody has responded very favorably to the rough draft. The gent who told me it did not fit the Last Dominion suggested that I sell it to Dungeon – I guess that is both good and bad.

Time, time, time, now I know why companies can predict something is coming out in December – because they already have the rough draft finished.  When I was just doing website stuff it was easy to write and post stuff then edit on the fly as needed but a published product deservers more than that kind of hap-hazard scrutiny.

The real kicker here is that I have spent a week or so working on the project and it will do nothing to advance the setting or the product line. If I release it – it may set up false expectations of what the company style will be like for our paying customers leading to disappointment when the styles are different. What does all of this mean? It means one heck of a lot of effort for something that will not see any return for 3P while we have mounting costs associated with art and support. It means I made a pretty major faux pas resulting in the squandering of 3P’s most valuable resource – my time. Now to see if I can turn lemons into lemonade.  

I will see if I can get to the question on setting bibles here this evening or tomorrow.

Randy


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## Eosin the Red (May 28, 2004)

BTW guys,

Thanks for the support. It is easy to get discouraged but then I turn here and feel like I have a grandstand rooting 3P on it keeps the drive going strong. It really helps on days like today when you realize that you have made a major blunder.

It is also cool to know that the thread has made folks desire to chase their own dreams of RPG publishing. Inspiring others is a very cool reward all in itself.

Connors - Thanks, I try to keep it real. We all have lives and as much as we love RPGs many other factors take priority even when you are doing it for "real."


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## Qwillion (Jun 2, 2004)

*evil cheerleaders*

while I disagree that it does not fit the style of the setting as I find the circus a dark and moody place, full of bright colors and even darker shadows. Maybe I have been watching too much Carnivale.

I have been hard at work on Here there Be Monsters which after a arm twisting phone call I am happy with the direction all the monsters are taking. Amanda my artist partner is hard a work (hopefully we will have some preview stuff up soon)

My freestyle article is on Eosin's desk as well as at the editors.

It warms my evil minion soul to see so many people cheer for us.


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## Qwillion (Jun 7, 2004)

*The Really Real world*

Randy is off dealing with the real world so I thought I would say a few things.

Me I am trying to stay on track, I have done a number of submissions pieces in the past but doing an entire monster book all by my self takes a number of pieces and I have a high standard that I set for myself. What really helped was putting that standard down on paper for the Friday Five we did a few weeks ago. Though my long answer was too long for Randy's tastes. 

I am not much for the long borring talk of money and expenses. I work slowly and more simply (cheaper too), I have Amanda Roth as my artist (a co-worker and the fiance of one of my best friends)David Paul is my editor, he stops me from using my third grade writing skills.

Since I might as well get in some trouble with Randy while he is away I thought I would give you all a sneak peak at something I have been working on this is a npc (varient monster) that sets the stage for how Here there be monsters will be handling Npcs

Eched’Na’ “Mother of Monsters”

_Suddenly the woman you are threatening transforms into a roughly 60-foot-long, crimson serpent with the head of a lovely, raven-haired woman.  She has deep, captivating, purple eyes and a wicked-looking barbed stinger._

	Some claim the Eched’Na’ is the first bride created by the powers that be, who abandoned her husband and child rather than be ruled by him.  Others claim she is simply a powerful naga who suffers from dementia from feeding upon the Ennwrathi.  Eched’Na’ claims to be much older than both the powers and the Ennwrathi, and that she is here to give life to the world.  She seems to truly care for those she takes as a mate and will often do small favors of services for them; she also seems to care for her children but only after some one has murdered them.  She is a very gifted courtesan and is extremely charming and entertaining.  Eched’Na’ hopes one day to give birth to a messiah who will save the world from the Ennwrathi.

_“I want to bear your children.  To be the mother of your child.”_

*Eched’Na’ “Mother of Monsters”:* Female ha-naga; CR 23; Colossal (60’ long, 5’ diameter) aberration; HD: 20d8+240; hp 440; Init +14; Spd 60 ft., fly 120 ft. (perfect); AC 40, touch 16, flat-footed 26; Base Atk +15; Grp +39; Atk +21 melee (4d6+8, coil whip) or +19 (2d8+4, sting) or +13 (4d8+4, bite); Full Atk: +21 melee (4d6+8, coil whip), +19 melee (2d8+4 plus poison, sting), +13 melee (4d8+4, bite); Space/Reach 30 ft./20 ft.; SA charming gaze, constrict 4d6+12, improved grab, poison, spells; SQ damage reduction 5/epic, flight, shapechange, seven suns; spell resistance 30; AL CE; SV Fort +22, Ref +22, Will +22; Str 27, Dex 38, Con 42, Int 35, Wis 31, Cha 36.

_Skills and Feats:_ Appraise +35, Concentration +39, Bluff +24, Diplomacy +38, Escape Artist +37, Hide +21, Jump +20, Knowledge (arcana, history, religion) +35, Listen +33, Move Silently +37, Search +35, Sense Motive +24, Spellcraft +37, Spot +33; Ability Focus (Charming Gaze), Extend Spell, Lightning Reflexes, Multiattack, Silent Spell, Still Spell, Weapon Finesse

A ha-naga’s natural weapons are treated as epic for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.

_Chameleon Ability (Ex):_ Ha-nagas can blend in with their surroundings, giving them a +8 circumstance bonus on Hide checks.

_Charming Gaze (Su):_the ma As mass charm monster, 90 ft., Will save (DC 35).  The DC is Charisma-based.

_Constrict (Ex):_ A ha-naga deals 4d6+12 points damage with a successful grapple attack against Huge or smaller opponents.

_Flight (Su):_ As per the fly spell, except 120 ft. (perfect).  This ability gives the ha-naga a +6 circumstance bonus on Move Silently checks.

_Improved Grab (Ex):_ To use this ability, the ha-naga must hit with its coil whip attack.  If it succeeds, it can constrict.

i]Poison (Ex):[/i] Injury, Fortitude DC 31; initial and secondary damage 2d8 Con.  The save DC is Constitution-based.

_Seven Suns (Ex):_ In a compatible form, Eched’Na’ can mate with any creature that reproduces sexually.  These children are carried for nine days and then born fully grown.  Often this creature is a unique monster but occasionally it is born to the race of its father.  This creature shares a number of memories of its father; it seems to suffer from no lack of maturity, regarding its intelligence or its wisdom, though it often has a desire to leave its mother and see the world for itself.

_Shapechange (Sp): _Eched’ Na’ can shapechange once per day as a 21st level caster

_Spells:_ Ha-nagas can cast spells as 21st-level sorcerers, and can also cast cleric spells and spells from the domains of Chaos and Evil as arcane spells (save DC 33 + spell level).  The DC for all their spells is Charisma-based.

Sorcerer Spells Known (6/10/9/9/9/9/8/8/8/8; save DC 33 + spell level): 0 -- dancing lights, detect magic, ghost sound, mage hand, mending, message, read magic resistance, touch of fatigue; 1st -- alarm, shield, mage armor, magic missile, true strike; 2nd -- detect thoughts, eagle’s splendor, invisibility, protection from arrows; 3rd -- non-detection, protection from energy, tongues, slow; 4th -- enervation, greater invisibility, stone skin, phantasmal killer; 5th -- baleful polymorph, mage’s private sanctum, secret chest, wall of force; 6th -- anti-magic field, greater dispel magic, true seeing; 7th -- force cage, greater teleport, spell turning; 8th -- demand, moment of prescience, polymorph any object; 9th -- dominate monster, crushing hand, timestop.

*Lore:* Revealed by a Bardic Knowledge, Knowledge (Local) or Gather Information check:

_Common (DC 10):_ This is Eched’Na’, the mythical mother of monsters who can bear a child in seven suns rather than seven moons.

_Uncommon (DC 23):_ Eched’Na’ is a type of creature known as a ha-naga

_Rare (DC 41):_ Years ago, disguised as a sorceress, she bore the son of the ruling nobility from which the rest are descended.  There is an ancient law prohibiting killing her and a reward of 23,000gp for her capture.

_Obscure (DC 50):_ Eched’Na’ always hides the knowledge of their fathers from her children and she often abandons them to their own devices.  Due to her gift with magic and her own supernatural powers, even the fathers of these children do not often know of the child’s existence.

_Heroic (DC 60):_ Ha-naga are particularly vulnerable to weapons forged during the first Ennwrathi war.

_Epic (DC 70):_ Eched’Na’ is searching for a mate that will help her give birth to a creature immune to the corruption and the power of the Ennwrathi.

*Designer’s Notes: *The struggle of a child to assume the role of its parent is a constant theme throughout mythology, legend and the fantasy genre.  How often has one of your players wanted to play the child of a famous character?  Who would not want to be the hero struggling with the father he never knew or be the daughter struggling against her wicked step-mother?

	Eched’Na’, the mother of all monsters, is here to bring family back to the forefront of your gaming experience.  Use her as the mother the character never knew, the seductress who wants to bear the children of a character, or the vengeful mother of the monster a character slew simply because it had some nice loot.

The Eye by Amanda Roth 
this is the eye of a creature called the Soarlith, who amanda has effectionally named raymond. (why do i have the artist that gives evil scary monsters cute pet names)[


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## Qwillion (Jun 8, 2004)

*Work work work*

Today I put in my regular day of overtime, (funny how your regular work day includes overtime lol), and I have some weeds to kill around the house.

yet I am going to be working on finishing up a piece called the Unsighted and send that off to my illustrious editor, as I sent him a piece yesterday.  I should be able to send him a piece a day, every day this month.

Oh here is something for you behind the scenes folk, you ever know someone for quite some time and not really know they have a secret skill for drawing. Well that is how I got to work with my current artist. 

Here is the piece that sold me on using her as my artist.  (now this she did at work on her breaks and lunch time with just, low quality printer paper and ball point pen.) The picture is the skeleton of a monster called th soarlith.


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## Qwillion (Jun 9, 2004)

*Yet even more work, and the new pdf options*

boy some days balancing my day job with writing is difficut.

But on the happy side we now have a choice of PDF venures to sell from.

I may not like the new company, but at least it is an option. I was always supprised that enworld did not offer an alternative to Rpgnow, in the end any break from a monopoly is good for the consumer and good for us because I can say to rpgnow hey I can go over here or tell the other guy the same thing.  I await the day when wizards opens its own pdf publishign house Randy will have much more to say on this I am sure when we get closer to publication. Ran

 I am just dead tired today but I did get a very original idea for a plant-based monster today I will have to flesh it out tommorow, I want to write but I don't think falling asleep at work would look good.

Oh and randy said some very nice things about my work the other day, 



> "Steven, sometimes you are magical!... damn do these beasties grab you...can only smile at the creepy baddies you are coming up with. Rock on big dog!"




Nothing like praise from you boss to make you feel good and work even harder.


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## DaveStebbins (Jun 9, 2004)

Qwillion said:
			
		

> I may not like the new company, but at least it is an option. I was always supprised that enworld did not offer an alternative to Rpgnow, in the end any break from a monopoly is good for the consumer and good for us because I can say to rpgnow hey I can go over here or tell the other guy the same thing.



I believe SV GAmes has been an option for some time now. I believe it even predated RPGNow.



			
				Qwillion said:
			
		

> I await the day when wizards opens its own pdf publishign house.



They tried it, even selling PDFs from their site. It failed to meet their requirements for success and they moved distribution elsewhere. If you mean you would like them to once again offer their backlist or OOP items for sale as PDFs, I would also like to see this.


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## tensen (Jun 9, 2004)

DaveStebbins said:
			
		

> I believe SV GAmes has been an option for some time now. I believe it even predated RPGNow.
> 
> 
> They tried it, even selling PDFs from their site. It failed to meet their requirements for success and they moved distribution elsewhere. If you mean you would like them to once again offer their backlist or OOP items for sale as PDFs, I would also like to see this.




They have used SV Games... and currently use rpgnow.com for the OOP items.  I think rpgnow has over 700 PDFs from Wizards of the Coast.


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## Qwillion (Jun 10, 2004)

*D20 Mastery*

Thank you for the clarrification folks but what I was referring to was something designed to be a pdf.

Yes wizards had the sv games stuff but that was scanning print material and the costs were too high (ask jim butler of bastion press he was in charage)

The question is why was RPGnow so successful and which one should this start-up company choose for its first product.

On a personal note I was published in the first issue of the wizards.community newsletter Knowledge Arcana
you can find that article here (I wrote this back in febuary. http://wizo.wizards.com/ka/spring04/page13.php

You should also see our first free piece here in a few days on the website.
D20 Mastery will be a continuing series on the website
The first one will deal with how to prepare for a campaign session when you have nothing ready and only a half hour to prepare.  

Anyone have any suggestions for other article subjects they would like to see?


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## DaveStebbins (Jun 10, 2004)

DaveStebbins said:
			
		

> If you mean you would like them to once again offer their backlist or OOP items for sale as PDFs, I would also like to see this.





			
				tensen said:
			
		

> They have used SV Games... and currently use rpgnow.com for the OOP items. I think rpgnow has over 700 PDFs from Wizards of the Coast.



I was referring to starting to put OOP and backlist 3E products out. They basically ended the program before any 3E stuff was scanned. I think many, many people would like to see that.

I apologize for not being more clear, and also for the minor hijack of the thread.


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## Qwillion (Jun 11, 2004)

*Write, Edit, and Read*

I got some stuff back from the editor today, must say I really enjoy working with David "Dave" Paul

I need to make sure he posts here once or twice before he goes back to teaching english in the fall.

Dave did send along the d20 mastery article, so once Randy gets back to work on P3 we should have our first free piece. 

My question is how many people read web articles that they see mentioned on the Enworld News page?


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## DaveStebbins (Jun 11, 2004)

Qwillion said:
			
		

> My question is how many people read web articles that they see mentioned on the Enworld News page?



The news page at EN World is always my first read when I get online at home. If the subject of a linked article is interesting, I will immediately open it in another browser window and get to it a little later.


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## Eosin the Red (Jun 11, 2004)

Ok,

The DM mastery article is up.  

I just pulled 14 days in a row at work. On my 2 days off, I spent 10 hours a day roofing and then did another 7 days in a row (23 days of solid work...my brain is numb). I also busted up my foot pretty good and have had trouble sitting at the computer for any length of time without the foot hurting to the high heavens. In between all of that, I began world war III at my work place and have had to go before a grievance board no small number of times. Duckies gotta be in a row there  My special announcement is that I have a new job beginning the 1st of July. I will be returning to the ER to work as an RN.

What does all of this mean? Other than I have not had time to say hello to my kids, it means that I should be back into the ball game pretty quickly. Revenge of real life. Now let's see if I can get something besides a web update ddone this weekend.   Officially, I am leaving myself on the injured reserve list until I don't feel like I have been beaten with the Hong stick.


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## Qwillion (Jun 12, 2004)

I guess since the first one is up I will go write a second one. Don't want to get behind.

Glad to here that I am not the only one to follow an intersting thread.


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## BradfordFerguson (Jun 15, 2004)

Eosin,

I've found that as I force myself to write now about stuff I would rather write about later, that it becomes easier for me to write about the more pressing stuff, even if it isn't the thing I want to write about FIRST.


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## Eosin the Red (Jun 21, 2004)

Thanks for the tip bossman.

I have been ignoring the thread for a few days while I tried to master a few new skills, namely PDFing stuff and layout. I still hate writing modules   

I will get to a bigger better update tomorrow or Tuesday night and I will deliver the much delayed information on setting bible stuff. I have actually been humping it lately but nothing real glamerous. 4 am and this cat needs to get his shut eye....just did not want to delay the update any longer.


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## Eosin the Red (Jun 22, 2004)

Time for a big ole update!

First, a word from our sponsors. There is a ton of work being done all over behind the scenes – everything from editing, to proofreading, and the ever-dubious rules and fact checking. A small cadre of really fine folks who do not get the credit they deserve do most of this stuff. If you think that you want to do this alone, you are insane or talented and organized beyond human recognition. I wanted to say thanks to these people – David Paul, David Benson, Alacer, Sharn, & Rigil Kent. I say it often, but it deserves a repeat - they are the people who keep 3P from looking bad (or will in the future). Well, them and you kindly folks who have offered your opinion when you saw a need. Thank you.

Second, we have an article coming out in a few days [really!]. I am mastering the fine art of PDFing, which is not as easy as it looks. I am also rediscovering the fine art of page layout. This is on a scale beyond anything that I have done before. However, I can throw words like kerning and leading around with the best of them. [That is pure confabulation in case you did not know.] What does that mean? It means that on top of doing all the other stuff, several more skills must be mastered or I must shell out some more cash and I ain’t got much of that right now. 

The module is still sitting in the same place it was when I put a hold on it two or three weeks ago. That is to say, the writing is done and I am pondering a re-write to bring it a little closer to the feel of The Last Dominion. Sometimes it is important to give these things the time to puzzle themselves out in your mind before moving with the pen. 

Steve is coming along well on the monster book. It really captures the feel of mythical gaming. He has had his own share of setbacks recently and I hope he finds himself in the saddle soon.

Now for that moment I promised several weeks ago…..the setting bible.


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## Eosin the Red (Jun 22, 2004)

*Setting Bible*

Myself and Steve have had a few conversations about what The Last Dominion really means and what do we want to strive to produce. When it is just one person with a vision in his head then he does not need anything to cohesively define how to write, what to write, and what are stipulated facts. Those 'facts' are all locked in his noggin. However, when two or more people are working in the same playground those things need to be spelled out in as clear manner as possible. So you make a setting bible or as Steve would say 'That tome Randy sent me!' I laughed at that last comment cause it ain't done - not even close.

Like every other D&Der, I got the idea from the WotC setting search. That does not tell anyone much since precious few know what they wanted and those folks ain't talking. I also thought about the setting bibles used for Star Trek and what I knew they included and what they did not include. Once I had pondered the idea I set about seeing what a RPG setting would need for its bible. Here is what I came up with.

*Setting Bible*
Setting Blurb
Motifs	
Symbols
Themes 
Naming conventions

*Religion:*
The Worldsmith & Great Fellowship	
The Primal	
The Cardinal Powers - The Foundations	
The Celestine

*The Celestine Factions*
The Emissaries of the Jann
The Brotherhood of the White Temple
The Beneficent Prophets 
“Those who come”

The Ennwrathi

*The Types of Magic:*
Origin of Magic (s)
Druids
Mystic Orders
The Synod
Muldegians
Free Mages

*Setting*
Astromomical data
Time Line
Languages
Races

*The Regions*
The Western States
The Middle Kingdoms
Glacian Lands
The Fallen Kingdoms
The Radiant Lands

_example region_

*The Western States:*
Climate
Population
Middean (regional) Timeline
Regional History
Organizations	
Royalty	
Arcanists	
Bards and Druids	
Religion
Knightly Orders

*Countries*
Middea
Erenn
Vinland - Vindel Uplands
Eadon
Touren
Numeria
Lorain Palataniate

_example kingdom_

*Middean Politics*
The Kingdom of Middea
Middean History
Middean Historical Kings
Royalty and Nobility
Trade	
Unusual Laws in Middea
Overview:
Current Events
The Royal Family
The Duchy of Envernes
The Duchy of Greyfall 
The Duchy of Ingelstone
The Duchy of Wingate
Other Duchies.

*Cities and Towns:*
Chandra
Claypoole	
Aaken	


*Needed to finish*
The Regions all need the treatment of the Western States.
All of the countries need the Middian Treatment
Need to outline several key cities.
The Movers and Shakers.
And perhaps a ton more stuff that I do not realize needs to be added.


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## Silveras (Jun 22, 2004)

Hey Randy, 

Here's a suggestion for something that I would like to see all fantasy world 'Setting Bibles' address: how much science to mix into the fantasy. 

Specifically, things like diseases and evolution. 

Can better hygiene prevent the spread of plagues, or is it all at the whim of a deity of plague ? 
Some players love the idea of Chronomancy - time-related magic. Great, but if you take an Orc and "devolve" it, what do you get ? In a world where the gods created the races as they are now, you get: an Orc. No changes. 

I don't think it needs to be a big section, and perhaps the main items can be addressed in the religious areas. 

Anyway, just a thought.


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## Eosin the Red (Jun 24, 2004)

I hate stupid farkin programs that don't do what I tell them!

Any PDF experts want to offer me some advice? 

Eosin_the_red@cox.net or see the thread posted in the e-Publishers forum.


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## Eosin the Red (Jun 25, 2004)

It took some outside assistance but  “It Is Your Destiny” has been converted to PDF. This was something of an abysmal experiment to test layout, design, & PDFing skills before we go full tilt on with stuff that costs people money. I think we will need some more practice and some help from tech support at the PDF Company.

Anyway – take a look at It Is Your Destiny, a magazine style article on incorporating Omens and Prophecy into your game. Feel free to comment - without crits we never know how to get better. I decided on clean as opposed to graphically adding things like the margin flourishes that seem so popular. Opinions on that?

The suggestions in this article will be used in The Last Dominion setting.


PS - Thanks to Cergorach


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## Qwillion (Jul 24, 2004)

Sorry, I have been absent of late.

I have moved into my new home but they forgot to install the cable.....
AGGGGGGHHHHHHHHH.... must have high speed internet.... 

Work goes a pace on Here There Be Mosnters and the next installment of d20 mastery is nearly done. 

Back to the slave pits of Eosin with me.


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## Leopold (Jul 24, 2004)

Thanks for the info. I've been working with another PDF publisher and learning from him as well as seeing what has  been going on here. keep up the work and keep posting!


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## Qwillion (Jul 25, 2004)

Got two large pieces off to the editor today for Here There Be Monsters.

I have also sent off the next installment of d20 mastery: The 5-minute NPC. To my Editor David "Dave" Paul

(one day we will show Eosin what we are doing heheheheh)


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## Qwillion (Jul 28, 2004)

*work goes appace.*

The dave edited and sent back the two pieces I sent him plus the d20 mastery article which I am sad to say the article was one that needed a great deal of editing due to its rush status at the end of the month. 

I hope to stop that from happening again. 

Oh and does any one realize how tough it is to find new animals and vermin in a monster book? 

Well tommorrow is an early work day and the weekend looks like it will allow for a great deal of work to be done. 
I promise once I have the principle work completed I will put out a preview and a questions and answer thread.


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## Qwillion (Aug 4, 2004)

*more free stuff*

In the battle to bring yoU more free stuff 

There is:  It's Your Destiny PDF by Randy Madden
The next article of d20 mastery: The 5 minture npc
and Our Map Page has updated with a continental map done by Keith Curtis...Check it out. 

www.pencilpushers.net

I will try to pimp P3 to EN world about this stuff later, so that it can make the monday page. 

MYTHICAL GAMING!


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## Qwillion (Aug 12, 2004)

*pimping acomplished*

Front Page
Its nice to see your name on the front page, hell it was nice to see our cartographer’s name on the front page.  Heck when was the last time a cartographer’s name was on the front page of enworld? 

Reviews
I myself was surprised by the number of reviews that Randy was able to accomplish. I am not sure if I will do any.  There is the whole issue of reviewing your competition, yet I might as long as I state my bias ahead of time.  You will never find me claiming to be objective. 

Mythical Ceations

I like to say that when I read something good I say so.  When  I first read Randy’s article It’s Your Destiny, I said: “Damn!  I wish I had written that!” 

A day in the life:
Well what has been going on?  I had a very nice telephone conversation with Brandon Ferguson of www.silven.com.  Who wanted to make sure I was still working on Here There Be Monsters, he was kind enough to ask for a preview and a chance to review it. (Bias note: Brandon is a friend who I have worked for while writing for Silven Crossroads.  Give him a preview?  Brandon is lucky if I give him a chance to get off the telephone, when I start talking about HTMB.

We have also had an offer from a friend who wants to join the pencil pusher team.  He has a better technical support background than I do that is for sure. 

How is HTMB coming along? 

HTMB is coming along very well and I must say I am truly happy with my choices.  The point of view I am using to relay information about the monsters is perhaps what I love the most.  I am also happy with our sections on monster lore, though I will need to sit down after I have created all the monsters and really crunch the numbers.  I also just started a policy where I spend a certain amount of time each week working on production.  The problem is to many people wanting my time, friends, women, mothers, work, D&D, DOOM 3, I decided I needed to really start putting in time like this was my second job. 

What is the Realase date for Here There Be Mosnters?
There is none. There will be no release date until it is ready. I want to do this right the first time. (I also want to beat Randy in having mine done before his with less overhead….j/k)

Thank you for your time.


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## Qwillion (Aug 31, 2004)

Well Gencon was a blast. 

Thank you to Hal Greenberg of Mind’s Eye Games, I just stopped by the booth on the last day of the convention to say hi.  Hal Greenberg looked a little tired, but he was more than gracious about meeting a would-be-publisher, he thanked Pencil Pushers for doing a review of Pantheons and Pagan Faiths.  (Randy did a review of the book using a pdf copy)  Hal Greenberg out of nowhere decided to give us a print copy of the book.  Perhaps it was a small thing, but the gesture meant a great deal to me.  

Brandon Ferguson was nice enough to hang around with me for several hours at the convention and even tried to get me to pimp Here There Be Monsters to almost everyone we met.  To say the least when I do get finished with Here There Be Monsters I will owe Brandon more than a few beers.  

I spent too much money at Gencon.  Yet when I got home Randy had a great surprise for me a picture of a Taurian Npc by Darren M. A. Calvert

Which you can find at the following link:  http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?t=98535

Well I finished three major pieces over the weekend leaving only seven major pieces left to go.  When I finish those, I will have passed a major milestone.  Randy is now gearing up to put together a preview of the work we are doing.  I expect to be as impressed by the layout as I have been by the artwork and the worldmap. 

I am planning on trying to do another major post next week, tomorrow I have to get busy on the next installment of DM Mastery Next level encounters.  Heck I may even write a review.


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## Qwillion (Oct 2, 2004)

*Exclusive Preview of 13 Reenvisioned Monsters*

Well as you may have noticed Bradford Fergeson is a friend of P3. However he recently asked to do an interview with the up and coming monster designers of Monsters and Minions, Creature Weekly and Yours truly.

One of the things you will find out about in the interview is that P3 is doing a revision of all the SRD monsters so that they fit within the Last Dominion Setting. Why? What is wrong with the SRD mosnters? Basicly thier generic, most of the monsters within the Last Dominion are unique individuals.  Yet rather than start another massive product when Here There BE Monsters is not yet complete, I am following in the footsteps of Phillip Reed's Ronin Arts and producing a 15 page pdf with 13 Reenvisioned Monsters (one page introduction with new feats qualities creature subtypes etc., one page for the OGL) This will allow you to sample our work at a low cost and faster download for those of you without the blessings of cable. 

You can find a great deal more about 13 reenvisioned mosnters and Here There Be Monsters by purchasing the next issue of D20 FILTERED by Silven publishing

Within you will find a preview of Ebonrule a varient animated object, that is also an intelligent greatsword along accopanied by Amanda Roth's wonderous artwork.


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## Eosin the Red (Oct 11, 2004)

*Long neglected, but not forgotten!*

Pencil Pusher’s is alive and well. As usual, I am moving slower than a snail. What have I been doing you ask? 

*Conceptualization:*
One of the important aspects of a successful product line is a distinct look and feel. So, here is what I am doing about it. We have commissioned a study of melee weapons used in the west – some 30 plus weapons that are unique to the various cultures. Next up is an armor study that will do much the same. Most of the clothing has already been worked out but it might also require some attention. These things seem silly for a small time outfit but IMO these are the very things that will allow us to go beyond small time. The documents are intended for in-house use but have required a bit of time.

*Religions:*
Working though various aspects of religion and all of its implications. Many of the prime movers in TLD are religious or quasi religious groups, we need to get them right so that they have a good feel to them.

*Construction:*
I am hip deep in the construction of Tharad – The City of Fountains & the Second City of Middea. A great deal of work and research has already gone into the layout and design of the city which uses a historical model as its basis. On top of designing the city, I also needed to situate the region – since the city sits on top of a limestone shelf providing above ground and subterranean features.

Limestone Wikipedia Entry

*Villainy:*
_Evil draws men together. _  
Aristotle (384 BC - 322 BC), Rhetoric 

The thrill of Role-playing is very often defined by the villains that we face. Even great settings can tank if the villains aren’t great, so I have been looking into what makes villains shine. This will be released as a 3P freebie, like “It Is Your Destiny.” Speaking of which – nobody has commented on the article?

*That Stuff:*
First, Steve's stuff is cooking along fine and "Here There Be Monsters" is shaping up well. His first "13 Re-envisioned Monsters" is basically done. With each of these projects - I have to work on layout, PDF, some conceptulization, and keeping up with all the recent changes in distrubution chains.

_On the more personal side _ – I suffered the loss of old faithful, my computer and needed to replace it with a newer quirky model. I am still not all the way settled into the new machine. I and Steve have both had job changes – I got tired of riding a desk and returned to work in a busy ER. I enjoy it a world more than being a desk jockey but it does cut deeply into my writing time.

I guess the watch words would be – *“steady at the helm.”* I started with piss & vinegar but have mellowed into a nice steady pace that ensures that we do the job right.


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## Ebon Shar (May 3, 2018)

I apologize for the vilest of thread necromancy, but I was hoping someone on this thread had any contact info for Randy Madden (Eosin the Red).  I worked with him on Under the Dragon’s Banner and would love to contact him again.  Feel free to DM me.  Thanks.


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