# Forum Suddenly Switched How Named Are Displayed?



## Kaodi

What just happened? All of a sudden user names are displayed at the top of posts rather than to the side. I do not know if this was intentional, but I cannot say that it looks particularly good to me.


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## SkidAce

I came here looking for info also, thought something had broken.


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## SkidAce

Yeah, and in this style, my badges are not visible.


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## Dannyalcatraz

Ok, so it isn’t just me.


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## Umbran

Nope.  It seems to be universal.  Morrus was probably playing with a configuration, or something.


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## trappedslider

I do not like this one bit lol, it feels like this would be better as a mobile view


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## Lanefan

My first thought is that it makes posts - at least the longer ones - harder to read.  The unbroken horizontal lines (on this desktop screen) were more than long enough before, now they are longer.


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## Olgar Shiverstone

Yeah, if this is user configurable, please let us know how to change the configuration. Threads are more readable if the text isn't broken up by address bars -- keep the poster information off to one side, please.


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## Blue

I'm really liking the change.  I read the forums on my second screen, a portrait-orientation monitor.  The text is always squished in the middle, losing a large stip on both sides.  With the new change the text gained back all the space on the left hand side of the screen and probably 60% wider.  If there was just a way to have it extend all the way to the right side, even if only under the Latest News and Advertisements sections.

Another wish would be for those that don't have signature footers not to waste for the two horizontal bars the enclose it, and I'm not sure at all why there's a space under the bottom bar on everyone's posts.


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## Mouseferatu

Add my vote to the "do not like" list. Please let us know if there's a way to configure it back to the way it was.


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## SkidAce

I do not prefer it either.

The font for the Likes and Laughs is really large now, almost appearing to distract from the message body.

Can't see people's badges (some folks bought those so...).


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## ccs

I dislike this format.


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## darkbard

Yet another dissenting voice for the new format: blech!


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## lowkey13

*Deleted by user*


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## Umbran

It is a demonstrable point in the UX field that initial negative feedback is not as helpful as you might think.  In the short term, humans typically react negatively to change they don't themselves initiate.  

The real question will be how folks feel about it in a few weeks or so, after the shock of unannounced change wears off.


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## Flexor the Mighty!

I am largely indifferent to the changes.


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## SkidAce

Umbran said:


> It is a demonstrable point in the UX field that initial negative feedback is not as helpful as you might think.  In the short term, humans typically react negatively to change they don't themselves initiate.
> 
> The real question will be how folks feel about it in a few weeks or so, after the shock of unannounced change wears off.




You have a valid point.

However, there are other considerations.

Initial negative feedback WITHOUT data points is just a gut reaction, much as you say. "I don't know why I don't like this, however RAGE!"

However, an initial reaction , such as not liking blue text on a bluer background, missing functions, etc (just general examples) is valid initially and over time.  Its actual feedback.


Then of course there are ways of implementing change to reduce the "shock".  Unfreeze, Change, Refreeze.  Probably not a process you want to use in a widely vocal internet arena, you would be overwhelmed by getting folks to buy into the concepts, but some of the concepts could be used.  Post a thread in Meta "Going to Test Layout?"


Finally, it depends on goals, if the change initiator wants the change, for reasons (speed, cost savings, preference, etc.) then the longer you go past the initial change, the easier it is to keep it.  As it becomes the new norm, people get tired of mentioning it, or new folks don't even know there was a change.


Anyway, not a show stopper, thanks for the discussion with us [MENTION=177]Umbran[/MENTION].


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## Kaodi

Interestingly the notification at the bottom of posts for XP awarded is now much larger. It used to be more postscript size but now it is fully formed. I am not sure what the reasoning behind that would be if this were an intentional change. I could perhaps learn to live with the format change but the XP change just takes up more space on the page needlessly.

Edit: I looked again and the XP text is actually _larger_ than regular text.


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## Istbor

I'm fine with people getting a style they may like better.  I would just also like the option to have my display the way I would prefer as well. 

Right now, I find all of the horizontal graphics pretty distracting from the meat of the actual thread and posts.  Almost gives me a headache to try and read.


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## Gradine

I'm sure I could get used to this change, to the extent that if it were to eventually shift back just as suddenly it would be just as jarring.

That said, the lack of displayed badges is troubling considering, again, some folks have paid actual currency for them.


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## Umbran

Kaodi said:


> I am not sure what the reasoning behind that would be if this were an intentional change. I could perhaps learn to live with the format change but the XP change just takes up more space on the page needlessly.




My guess (and Morrus can correct me if I am wrong) is that this alteration is not so much about the minutae of font sizes.  It is probably more about system performance - to see if this template may render faster, with fewer calls to the database, than the old one.


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## AmerginLiath

Not a comment per se, but a question: is the change at the Morrus level or the vBulletin level? My first thought, having been away a few days and only now seen it on my iPad, is that it was a mobile version rendering, but folks are commenting on it being on their desktop too. But that doesn’t answer who flipped the switch (or clicked the radio button, as it were) on the change.

That said, it does read well on mobile devices, as it gives more of the screen’s limited real estate to the message.


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## Umbran

AmerginLiath said:


> Not a comment per se, but a question: is the change at the Morrus level or the vBulletin level?




if vBulletin changes page layout *without* express permission of an admin-type, then the change in layout is a minor problem.


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## Ath-kethin

I noticed the XP level (or whatever it was called) for each poster is missing now, too.

I also find the new format more difficult to read, and I miss the XP level bit. We can still give XP and laugh with a post, but if the levels are gone what does it do?


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## trappedslider

AmerginLiath said:


> Not a comment per se, but a question: is the change at the Morrus level or the vBulletin level? My first thought, having been away a few days and only now seen it on my iPad, is that it was a mobile version rendering, but folks are commenting on it being on their desktop too. But that doesn’t answer who flipped the switch (or clicked the radio button, as it were) on the change.
> 
> That said, it does read well on mobile devices, as it gives more of the screen’s limited real estate to the message.




I'm guessing that it was done at Morrus' level as part of his on going effort to make "a much cleaner, less cluttered skin in an attempt to improve performance."


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## SkidAce

Eeek...you are right...my xp title is gone....


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## MNblockhead

The new format is easier to read, especially on smaller screens. Removing the badges removes a lot of clutter. I "owned" a number of badges, but I don't mind much if they are now gone if it improves the sites performance and makes the site render better on more devices. Some people, however, may be miffed if they bought badges that are now gone. It would be nice if badges could be displayed on the users "About Me" page. 

What does bother me, however, is that the experience titles are now gone. That was part of the site's flavor that I've enjoyed very much. The green status-bar graphic does not have the same flavor. Sure you can get however your mouse over the graphic to have the title appear in the hover-text, but that's not as convenient and take a fun part of the site and makes more of an easter egg. 

I would rather display the XP-title text instead of the green bar. You could also save screen real estate by combining the member subscriber lines. So, for example, my profile squib would be:

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|IMAGE| MNBlockhead o
|IMAGE| Community Supporter: Copper
|IMAGE| Spellbinder (Level 16)
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## TwoSix

MNblockhead said:


> I would rather display the XP-title text instead of the green bar. You could also save screen real estate by combining the member subscriber lines. So, for example, my profile squib would be:
> 
> ----------
> |IMAGE| MNBlockhead o
> |IMAGE| Community Supporter: Copper
> |IMAGE| Spellbinder (Level 16)
> ----------



Agreed.  If I don't get my daily dose of feeling bad that [MENTION=6799753]lowkey13[/MENTION] is higher level than me, I don't really feel like I visited ENWorld.


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## Kobold Boots

SkidAce said:


> Eeek...you are right...my xp title is gone....




Hover over the xp bar with your mouse.  Title is still there it's just not advertised.

If the change makes the forums more stable then I'm all for it.


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## lowkey13

*Deleted by user*


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## Ath-kethin

Kobold Boots said:


> Hover over the xp bar with your mouse.  Title is still there it's just not advertised.




In a tragic and perplexing oversight, my smartphone didn't come with a mouse.

I'd really love to see the level titles just switched back on; add my vote to the "prefer the level to the green bar" chorus.


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## Kobold Boots

Ath-kethin said:


> In a tragic and perplexing oversight, my smartphone didn't come with a mouse.
> 
> I'd really love to see the level titles just switched back on; add my vote to the "prefer the level to the green bar" chorus.




 My obvious reply though is going to be... at the point where you’re choosing to use the desktop version of the site with your smartphone instead of the mobile site intended for smartphones, you’re creating your own problem and shouldn’t be listened to specific to that use case.


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## Ath-kethin

Kobold Boots said:


> My obvious reply though is going to be... at the point where you’re choosing to use the desktop version of the site with your smartphone instead of the mobile site intended for smartphones, you’re creating your own problem and shouldn’t be listened to specific to that use case.




I found the app difficult to navigate and counterintuitive compared to what I was accustomed to.

But are you saying that the app has all of that information readily displayed and it's just the desktop site that was changed to exclude it? Because that seems a little weird too.


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## MNblockhead

Ath-kethin said:


> I found the app difficult to navigate and counterintuitive compared to what I was accustomed to.
> 
> But are you saying that the app has all of that information readily displayed and it's just the desktop site that was changed to exclude it? Because that seems a little weird too.




Yeah, the app is awful, but I believe Kobold Boots was referring to the mobile Web site, which should be the default version rendered when you visit EnWorld using Chrome or Safari on a Mobile device. 

I find that the rare times that I read ENWorld on my phone I end up switching to the desktop view, which isn't too difficult to read on my iPhone X and has all the features I'm used to.


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## Ath-kethin

Until just now, I didn't realize that there is a difference between the app and the mobile site. Both were different from what I'm used to seeing and made it difficult to find the areas I normally hang out in.

But my question stands either way: do the XP levels show in those views? I don't even see an option to return to the mobile site now anyway, but the presence of the stuff I'm looking for could tempt me to give it another shot.


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## lowkey13

*Deleted by user*


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## Kobold Boots

Hi Guys - 

The only reason I brought up the mobile site, is because that's the site folks should complain about if they're primarily viewing the site from a mobile device.  The user experience for the desktop site is optimized for desktop browser use and the theme reflects that.  

It's a different argument from "the desktop default site doesn't show XP levels anymore" for which the response should be, mouseover the xp bar and there's the title.  Mentioning that you use a mobile device and don't have a mouse, is valid, but misses the point of the desktop theme.  It's not optimized for mobile use and shouldn't be.  The mobile site is optimized for mobile devices and doesn't use mouseover options in the code.

However, that's not to say that the mobile site theme doesn't need love in and of itself, it's basic but does what it does.  On the topic of what I believe is the tapatalk app, (different from the mobile theme) won't use it, can't stand it, double post all the time when using it elsewhere.


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## Ath-kethin

Kobold Boots said:


> Hi Guys -
> 
> The only reason I brought up the mobile site, is because that's the site folks should complain about if they're primarily viewing the site from a mobile device.  The user experience for the desktop site is optimized for desktop browser use and the theme reflects that.
> 
> It's a different argument from "the desktop default site doesn't show XP levels anymore" for which the response should be, mouseover the xp bar and there's the title.  Mentioning that you use a mobile device and don't have a mouse, is valid, but misses the point of the desktop theme.  It's not optimized for mobile use and shouldn't be.  The mobile site is optimized for mobile devices and doesn't use mouseover options in the code.
> 
> However, that's not to say that the mobile site theme doesn't need love in and of itself, it's basic but does what it does.  On the topic of what I believe is the tapatalk app, (different from the mobile theme) won't use it, can't stand it, double post all the time when using it elsewhere.




See, I find the mobile site and app to be so.problematic there is no reason to complain about them. I just don't use them.

Though again, if the XP levels are still easily and readily available there, an argument could be made to use them. A persuasive argument, even


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## Kobold Boots

Ath-kethin said:


> See, I find the mobile site and app to be so.problematic there is no reason to complain about them. I just don't use them.
> 
> Though again, if the XP levels are still easily and readily available there, an argument could be made to use them. A persuasive argument, even




That's fair, and it's a great work around that prevents you from having to do anything beyond switching a theme.

However, it's bad form when you're finally complaining about the workaround and then expect to see a change.  

Honestly, I expect to see the titles come back, but it's really not the reason I post here to begin with and I can easily live without them.  The length of the xp bar pretty much tells me all I need to know if I'm concerned about it for some reason.


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## Lanefan

So even though they're hidden, the xp titles are still there.  Which leads me to ask: what database or site efficiency has been achieved by this change other than not pulling up and displaying badges? (and were badges causing that much of a slowdown?)  Or is there some other efficiency being achieved that we don't see at the user level?


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## CapnZapp

I'm using the EN World app, and it is completely unchanged by all of this.

I'm surprised someone could think it "atrocious". Basic yes. Inflexible, maybe.

But to me it's fast, with a large readable font, with no need to zoom back and forth. And the ads are surprisingly unintrusive. 

Are there perhaps more than one app, and you're talking about some other atrocious app?


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## SkidAce

I believe the concen was with forum changes on the desktop...but convo maybe veered off.


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## trappedslider

I'm guessing this is how the forum works now at least on desktop


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## SkidAce

trappedslider said:


> I'm guessing this is how the forum works now at least on desktop




It appears so.


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## HubHacken

Have the same problems. Ctrl+F5 didn't resolve this issue.


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## trappedslider

Looks like this is how it is from now on.


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## SkidAce

Wonder why?


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## CapnZapp

Performance?


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## trappedslider

SkidAce said:


> Wonder why?




Cuz [MENTION=1]Morrus[/MENTION] wants it this way and doesn't need to explain to anyone why he changes things?


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## Deset Gled

As of right now, the forum pages are also missing the links to later pages of long threads (i.e. you can't go directly to the last page of a thread anymore).

I have to say that these minor changes are starting to wear on me.  I don't like the new name layout (especially in mobile mode) because of the way it breaks up the thread.  It's not the end of the world.  I was disappointed when the number of views a thread got was no longer visible, but it wasn't a huge deal.  Now, to get to the end of a thread I've read most of, I have to click-load-click instead of just click.  Individually, none of these are enough to make me stop visiting ENWorld.  Collectively, they are a number of small steps in a direction that doesn't please me.


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## Nagol

Deset Gled said:


> As of right now, the forum pages are also missing the links to later pages of long threads (i.e. you can't go directly to the last page of a thread anymore).
> 
> I have to say that these minor changes are starting to wear on me.  I don't like the new name layout (especially in mobile mode) because of the way it breaks up the thread.  It's not the end of the world.  I was disappointed when the number of views a thread got was no longer visible, but it wasn't a huge deal.  Now, to get to the end of a thread I've read most of, I have to click-load-click instead of just click.  Individually, none of these are enough to make me stop visiting ENWorld.  Collectively, they are a number of small steps in a direction that doesn't please me.




Odd, I still have a "First", 20ish page numbers and  "Last" link on long threads.


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## Morrus

Deset Gled said:


> As of right now, the forum pages are also missing the links to later pages of long threads (i.e. you can't go directly to the last page of a thread anymore).




That happened months ago. It's gratifying that haven't noticed it until today.


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## MPA2000

Morrus said:


> That happened months ago. It's gratifying that haven't noticed it until today.




How do we know who is a moderator, if they don't have anything in their profile to distinguish them?


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## Lanefan

Deset Gled said:


> As of right now, the forum pages are also missing the links to later pages of long threads (i.e. you can't go directly to the last page of a thread anymore).



You can still go the first unread post in a thread straight from the list of threads, which is far more useful provided you've been keeping up with a thread as it goes along.

That said, if the go-to-first-unread feature ever goes away it'll be a bloody nuisance.


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## Lanefan

MPA2000 said:


> How do we know who is a moderator, if they don't have anything in their profile to distinguish them?




A couple of them have their usernames show in green, such as Morrus' name three posts above this one.  But they don't all have this, I don't think.


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## CapnZapp

I don't think this site is nearly as formal and tight-arsed as some other RPG sites on the NET. A moderator is simply someone who tells you something in red text. (And gets away with doing so... )


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## Umbran

CapnZapp said:


> I don't think this site is nearly as formal and tight-arsed as some other RPG sites on the NET. A moderator is simply someone who tells you something in red text. (And gets away with doing so... )




If you find someone who Morrus has not chosen using colored text (often referred to as "mod voice") for purposes of trying to moderate people's discussion, we ask you to report them immediately.  

Because there are some specific powers given to the actual moderators - as folks who try that trick and get caught will find when they get banned by someone actually on the moderating staff.


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## Kobold Boots

MPA2000 said:


> How do we know who is a moderator, if they don't have anything in their profile to distinguish them?




Personal opinion: 

If I'm not doing anything wrong, I prefer not knowing who the mods are.  Conversations are better when you don't put people in strata when reading their posts.
If I'm doing something wrong, it doesn't matter who the mods are.  When someone has the ability to bring the smack down, they will.

This is one of the better moderated sites out there in my opinion.  The mod staff seems really stable, in terms of tenure if not always actions and as a result even with occasional outbursts of sillyness; the general level of sanity is high and arbitrariness is low.  Knowing who a mod is seems useless, because if you're around long enough you figure it out.

KB


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## CapnZapp

Umbran said:


> If you find someone who Morrus has not chosen using colored text (often referred to as "mod voice") for purposes of trying to moderate people's discussion, we ask you to report them immediately.
> 
> Because there are some specific powers given to the actual moderators - as folks who try that trick and get caught will find when they get banned by someone actually on the moderating staff.



That's what my () was for, yes.


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## MPA2000

Kobold Boots said:


> Personal opinion:
> 
> If I'm not doing anything wrong, I prefer not knowing who the mods are.
> 
> KB




Well it's not an issue of doing anything wrong, but I think  most people like to know who is in charge whenever they join an organization or work for a company.


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## Kobold Boots

MPA2000 said:


> Well it's not an issue of doing anything wrong, but I think  most people like to know who is in charge whenever they join an organization or work for a company.




The name of the owner is in the upper left corner of the site.  Whomever does work for him by proxy is self-evident when you do something wrong.  

Joining an org or working for a company is not what's happening when you post on a website so the comparative argument you pose is not relevant.


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## Deset Gled

Umbran said:


> It is a demonstrable point in the UX field that initial negative feedback is not as helpful as you might think.  In the short term, humans typically react negatively to change they don't themselves initiate.
> 
> The real question will be how folks feel about it in a few weeks or so, after the shock of unannounced change wears off.






Morrus said:


> That happened months ago. It's gratifying that haven't noticed it until today.




I'm having trouble reconciling these two posts.  It would seem that we are supposed to wait a few weeks before posting any complaints to make sure they are legitimate and not just a hostile reaction to change, but also that if we wait to long to say we don't like something it is disregarded as not being important because it wasn't brought up soon enough.


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## MPA2000

Kobold Boots said:


> The name of the owner is in the upper left corner of the site.  Whomever does work for him by proxy is self-evident when you do something wrong.
> 
> Joining an org or working for a company is not what's happening when you post on a website so the comparative argument you pose is not relevant.




Well from from your last two comments, you and I no longer need converse.


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## Kobold Boots

Deset Gled said:


> I'm having trouble reconciling these two posts.  It would seem that we are supposed to wait a few weeks before posting any complaints to make sure they are legitimate and not just a hostile reaction to change, but also that if we wait to long to say we don't like something it is disregarded as not being important because it wasn't brought up soon enough.




As with anything, it depends on the circumstances surrounding the problem, what the complaint is, and often how the complaint is presented.  If you look at a complaint "process" then the point about reconciliation makes sense, but processes don't live in a vacuum.  They only get invoked with appropriate details.

Once you have the specifics of what the posts were directly referring to, they make perfect sense and they're not meant to be reconciled with each other.

Be well
KB


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## Umbran

Deset Gled said:


> I'm having trouble reconciling these two posts.




That's because they are talking about different things.



> It would seem that we are supposed to wait a few weeks before posting any complaints




I said nothing about, "supposed to wait".  You can post about it whenever you want.

I'm talking about a major change, that pretty much everyone was sure to notice, and that initial reaction might be biased to the negative for reasons that don't have to deal with the details or content of the of the change.  If we get a rush of negative feedback right at the get-go we might want to wait to see if it is still a problem a while afterwards.

Morrus is talking about a change that, as far as we can tell, wasn't even noted for several months.  It wasn't a problem at the time, and like only one person finds it a problem now.  That's pretty much a non-issue.


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## Gradine

Morrus said:


> That happened months ago. It's gratifying that haven't noticed it until today.




For what it's worth, I noticed it at the time it changed, and it's definitely irritating, but not to the point that I'd come here to complain about it, especially if it helps pages load significantly faster.

I'll add my discontent to the thread/name/level/badges changes, however. The rest I could probably get used to... losing the badges stings a little


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## SkidAce

I agree with [MENTION=57112]Gradine[/MENTION] .


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## lowkey13

*Deleted by user*


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## SkidAce

Info on badges from another thread...



Morrus said:


> They're used to buy badges (which aren't currently displaying right now, as something inexplicably broke, but I'm working on it!)





http://www.enworld.org/forum/showthread.php?653033-my-profile-has-gold-pieces


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## Tallifer

I like the top/bottom arrangement, but I miss seeing the level numbers and titles. What happened to those?


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## Tallifer

Tallifer said:


> I like the top/bottom arrangement, but I miss seeing the level numbers and titles. What happened to those?




Still waiting for level numbers and titles to come back again...


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## lowkey13

*Deleted by user*


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## Kaodi

Goodbye, new display format. We hardly knew ye.


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