# New News Page Layout



## rknop

This layout is way better than the one that you had up before.  The previous one was cluttered and busy.  I would come to the site, and just see stuff everywhere and not be sure what was new, what was worth paying attention to.  One coud get used to it, but it was still cluttered, busy, and overwhelming.

This layout is clean, clear, and you can see the news items pretty quickly.  It's far better.  I encourage you to stay with it or something like it.


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## MasterTrancer

The new layout is much neater and clearer, and appears very ordered. As you have already pointed out, though, it removes some "immediacy": before I could read all that I missed since my last visit and read it directly on the main page, while now I have to open the pages one by one; not much hassle for me, but given the choice I prefer the former layout


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## Olgar Shiverstone

My thoughts:

+ One rail is preferred to two for easier reading and more space for news.  It's less overwhelming.

- However, I'd like to see the article text remain. I want to read news on the news page, not click back and forth.

Why not mix the two -- keep the new one rail format with the old full article format!


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## Morrus

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> My thoughts:
> 
> + One rail is preferred to two for easier reading and more space for news.  It's less overwhelming.
> 
> - However, I'd like to see the article text remain. I want to read news on the news page, not click back and forth.
> 
> Why not mix the two -- keep the new one rail format with the old full article format!




By rail, do you mean columns? There was only ever one column of news!


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## The_Gneech

I'm not sold on it either. The previous design had more of the classic "tabloid layout" feel, which I prefer. I find the new design hard to read, and hard to tell where the focus is.

-The Gneech


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## Evhelm

I liked the three column, expanded article format. 

Might just be because I'm using a live-feed to access the site (so I know when something's new and have easy navigation back to the old anyway). 

I'm sure I'd get used to whatever you choose, but that extra click to expand the article does seem like it'd get tedious!


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## delericho

I like it.


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## Nellisir

I wonder if I'm seeing what everyone else is, because I hate hate hate it. I'm not seeing "more at a glance"; I've got some kind of rolling banner up top that's showing the bottoms of pictures, most of which are meaningless, and then one or two massive "boxes" below it. I have to scroll and scroll and scroll, and each item is in it's own box and frankly a real hassle.  The last time the front page looked something like this I switched my startup page to the forums and didn't read the news page for a year or two.


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## Morrus

I've just switched it to two columns of news to see what it would look like that way.  I'm not keen myself (things don't line up quite right) but thought I'd float it out there.


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## Nellisir

OK, for some reason it suddenly made sense to me visually when I went back to it after my last comment. I still don't like it, but it wasn't as confusing at it was five minutes previous. This was one-column, btw.

The two-column format isn't really an improvement.


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## Morrus

Nellisir said:


> I wonder if I'm seeing what everyone else is, because I hate hate hate it. I'm not seeing "more at a glance"; I've got some kind of rolling banner up top that's showing the bottoms of pictures, most of which are meaningless, and then one or two massive "boxes" below it. I have to scroll and scroll and scroll, and each item is in it's own box and frankly a real hassle.  The last time the front page looked something like this I switched my startup page to the forums and didn't read the news page for a year or two.




Each article has been in its own box for months, apart from some summary articles I do which list things. The difference is simply that the articles are collapsed, not expanded, so you can see multiple articles rather than just the top one.


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## Nellisir

I'm still not sure how this is supposed to let you see "more at a glance" or stop things from dropping out of sight. I've only got two articles visible now; that's not more and they're going to drop away pretty damned quick.


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## Nellisir

Morrus said:


> Each article has been in its own box for months, apart from some summary articles I do which list things. The difference is simply that the articles are collapsed, not expanded, so you can see multiple articles rather than just the top one.



I guess I didn't notice the boxes before, just the articles. Now it's all boxes.

Edit: Can you put the posting date in the header? That'd be useful.


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## Morrus

Nellisir said:


> I guess I didn't notice the boxes before, just the articles. Now it's all boxes.




The boxes are just smaller, is all.


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## Morrus

Nellisir said:


> I'm still not sure how this is supposed to let you see "more at a glance" or stop things from dropping out of sight. I've only got two articles visible now; that's not more and they're going to drop away pretty damned quick.




Maybe there's a screen size element. I can see 6 visible articles, and can scroll to see 6 more instantly.

Before I could see one visible article, and had to scroll all the way down to see the second, and then way down again to find the third, and so on.

Here's my terrible attempt to explain how there are more articles visible now.  The red box is a computer monitor.  The grey boxes are the articles.  Before (left) you could see half an article.  Now (right) you can see 6 or so.  Sorry for the rubbishy graphic!

Screen size depending, of course!


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## Nellisir

Morrus said:


> Maybe there's a screen size element. I can see 6 visible articles, and can scroll to see 6 more instantly.
> 
> Before I could see one visible article, and had to scroll all the way down to see the second, and then way down again to find the third, and so on.
> 
> Here's my terrible attempt to explain how there are more articles visible now.  The red box is a computer monitor.  The grey boxes are the articles.  Before (left) you could see half an article.  Now (right) you can see 6 or so.  Sorry for the rubbishy graphic!
> 
> Screen size depending, of course!
> 
> View attachment 65179




In the right image, replace Article 1 with the header, and Articles 2-3 with the rolling banner. That's what I'm getting. (except it's two columns so I'm seeing two half-size articles). I'm seeing the same stuff in less space.


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## Morrus

Nellisir said:


> In the right column, replace Article 1 with the header, and Articles 2-3 with the rolling banner. That's what I'm getting. (except it's two columns so I'm seeing two half-size articles). I'm seeing the same stuff in less space.




So you see two articles rather than the top of just one? Is it just the slideshow that's the issue?


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## Nellisir

Morrus said:


> So you see two articles rather than the top of just one? Is it just the slideshow that's the issue?




https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kd6ke00jab5pud/Screenshot 2014-11-22 12.01.50.png?dl=0

Edit: Let me know if the link doesn't work; I got error messages when I tried to post it as an image.


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## Morrus

Nellisir said:


> https://www.dropbox.com/s/0kd6ke00jab5pud/Screenshot 2014-11-22 12.01.50.png?dl=0
> 
> Edit: Let me know if the link doesn't work; I got error messages when I tried to post it as an image.




You can definitely see more articles than before. You can see two! Before, you would only have seen one - the first one. And with a teeny scroll you can see another 4!

Anyhow, if you don't like it you don't like it! I'm not trying to talk you into liking it.


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## Agglomérante

Maybe post a screenshot of the layout using the average visitor's screen dimensions. Your web analytics app probably collects the data.

I find the narrower headings produce a blocky "tombstone" effect on the page. The dark grey background with the dark blue type are just these dark slabs on your page. Every article has the read-aloud-text-block background grey. The overall effect is cramped blocks! The existing while space is wasted in inconsistent gutters. 

I'd lose all the heavy backgrounds, which will open up all kinds of white space, and let the large type of the headings guide the eye. At least use that as a starting point for a subtle design to guide the eye from article to article.

Love the site itself


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## FitzTheRuke

I think it looks pretty good.


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## Nellisir

Morrus said:


> Anyhow, if you don't like it you don't like it! I'm not trying to talk you into liking it.




No, I know - I like to be clear about why I don't like something and/or exactly what the problem is. Sometimes it's an easy fix.
I don't like the slideshow. I can probably get used to the rest of it. Still prefer the old style. Maybe the same amount of scrolling, but less clicking.


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## Olgar Shiverstone

Morrus said:


> By rail, do you mean columns? There was only ever one column of news!




Rail (aka "handrail"): The left/right columns that are ads, links, summaries, etc (everything but news content). There had been two (left/right) with the news column in the center; I prefer the single rail on the right.

I prefer one column of expanded news to two collapsed -- I don't want to have to "click through" to read a news article, then click back, then click through again, etc.


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## bujoojoo

I [almost] like it. 

I think if you cut the scrolling 'features' graphic down to about 2/3rds the height it is now, remove the 'Morrus' Daily RPG News Updates' banner underneath that (you already have the breadcrumb at the top of the page under the main banner), reduce the font in the headlines (both in the news and the sidebar sections) by a few points (along with the page view counts underneath those - i think those should be removed or at least tiny and stuffed in the corner of the headline 'box' (Does anyone care about that other than you? That might be an admin only view feature or at least customizable by the readers).  

I just think a bit more data on the page is better than too much header and whitespace.  The reader wants to get to what he wants to read as quickly as possible and IMO keeping data above the 'fold' is better than asking the user to scroll, scroll, scroll...

Just my $0.02...

Thanks for your hard work keeping this site going...


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## lkj

I like the new layout. Just my two cents.

AD


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## The_Gneech

I like the two columns!

-TG


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## gorpybleeder

Looks good - like this one better


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## samursus

Love the new News page format.  I concur, in that I missed the older items or had to click on multiple links to see what was going on.  This format works way better for me.


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## Riley

I don't like the new version; I like the traditional view.  I like being able to skim/scroll through the meat of the posts, so I can quickly tell whether or not I want to read more closely.

I can't easily tell from the new teasers whether or not I'm interested in the post.  If I wanted short teasers, then I'd go with a twitter feed - which I don't.  (YMMV.)


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## Blackbrrd

My suggestion:
a) drop big box*, keep two-column format
b) keep big box, switch back to old one-column format.

Btw, maybe removing the "xxxx/yyyy views" text on each article. It basically just clutters the front page taking up space, pushing news further down.

*The one with 7 news item in it.


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## bmcdaniel

I like it, but I miss that the old format automatically generated a forum topic. I'm not sure whats going on with this new format. Some news stories (like this one) can be commented, but not as part of the forum; some news stories (like http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2067-D-d-5E-Rules-Summary-Sheet#.VHKaJDSUe4I) don't appear to have any way to comment at all.


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## Morrus

bmcdaniel said:


> I like it, but I miss that the old format automatically generated a forum topic. I'm not sure whats going on with this new format. Some news stories (like this one) can be commented, but not as part of the forum; some news stories (like http://www.enworld.org/forum/content.php?2067-D-d-5E-Rules-Summary-Sheet#.VHKaJDSUe4I) don't appear to have any way to comment at all.




Oh, the forum thread linking was always manual, not automatic. It's not related to the format, just what I manually link it to.


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## jimmifett

Error on front page, above content:
Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_VARIABLE in /var/www/virtual/enworld/forum/packages/vbcms/widget/execphp.php(191) : eval()'d code on line 46


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## TarionzCousin

I like the two-column layout. Now if I miss a day, I can easily find a week's worth of articles in one place.


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## Toriel

The only thing I find is missing is the date the news was added. I usually read them by date and scroll to the last date I read when I miss for a few days.


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## Guyanthalas

I think with frequent use I'll the hang of it, and trying hard not to just be "Change is bad!!!" kinda guy. 

I agree with [MENTION=38630]Toriel[/MENTION], dates will be more important with this kind of layout.


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## lyle.spade

I like it, since it'll enable you to add blocks of news at the top throughout a day without creating an entirely new section. I was okay with the previous layout; however, I like this one better. And I actually don't think it looks a great deal like other sites.


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## Morrus

lyle.spade said:


> I like it, since it'll enable you to add blocks of news at the top throughout a day without creating an entirely new section. I was okay with the previous layout; however, I like this one better. And I actually don't think it looks a great deal like other sites.




That is one benefit. I can now add smaller items that I might have put off for the day, because I know they won't knock something important off the page.


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## Mercule

I think I preferred the old one, but only barely -- except for the carousel/slide-show. I really hate that.


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## JesterOC

I don't much like this new version, but I agree that the old version can burry articles. Perhaps a combo, the first 1 or 2 articles in full, followed by a shortened list?


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## Nellisir

Getting used to the newfangled stuff. 
Still don't like the slideshow.  It all like, whoa, what up dude, here, have some SLIDESHOW in your face, ha ha, you looked too late and now we skippin' on dude.


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## Zaran

Sorry, I really don't like it.  It reminds me of WotC's new site and I can't find anything on that anymore.  I much rather the new articles be on top and easy to see what's it about before deciding to read the rest or move on to the one below it.


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## mattdiss

Didn't like it at first, but with some time to adapt, I appreciate being able to see more articles. I would like to see on the front page how many comments each article has (not just views, but number of comments).


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## SkidAce

mattdiss said:


> Didn't like it at first, but with some time to adapt, I appreciate being able to see more articles. I would like to see on the front page how many comments each article has (not just views, but number of comments).




Not fond, but this idea would help.


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## Morrus

Most of them don't have comments.  I tend to divert discussion to the forum instead (which is where you'll see notations like *[106 replies]* in the text of an article itself. Splitting discussions up between the CMS and the messageboards always seems a bad idea to me.


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## CAFRedblade

I like it, but for some reason keep thinking that the Polls/Reviews/other info panels currently on the right should be on the left.. 
Just personal expectations I suppose compared to other sites I visit and preference.


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## Morrus

I must admit - and I know I'm biased! - but I'm in love with the "Out Now" panel on the right!


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## Morrus

I've removed the view counts for now.  I kinda like 'em - an at-a-glance view of what folks are finding interesting, but I get that's not for everyone.


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## Azuos

(First comment/post, hello)
I just had to sign up after god knows how long when I noticed the change...
Well, it's is modern, it is neat, and sometimes changing is good just because, right? But I think scrolling is less annoying than clicking. I explain, I'd rather see the news complete as they where in the previous version than click in each and everyone of them. Sometimes I just want to look at the pictures, sometimes I and willing the read'em all. The previous layout allowed me to do it all.
Anyway, the new layout is indeed beautiful, but I found the previous to be more practical, to my personal taste, of course.
Perhaps would be possible (FYI, now nothing about webdesign and stuff) to maintain a similar approach to this (collapsed news) and add a "expand", or similar, button to, as the name suggests,dinamically  expand said news without actually going to another page? I believe it would join the best of both world, less clicking from the new and less loading from the old.

Btw, LOVED the "Out now" and "Coming soon" boxes, great ideas!!


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## Greybird

I like it.  It is clean and efficient.  It is missing one vital thing, though:  The articles really need to have dates on them.  I can't keep track of which DMG previews I've seen and which I haven't.


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## lyle.spade

Dates: YES, please.


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## Morrus

I added the dates.


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## Greybird

Fantastic!  It really does help.


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## Zhaleskra

I didn't like the first version, but the table format just works.


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## Rabulias

I like it overall, but I think the slideshow takes up too much space.

My suggestions, if you are set to keep the slideshow (all IMO):

Have the left-hand text be a little larger (and more legible).
Use a solid background for the text; semi-transparency sometimes makes the text hard to read.
Don't have the text drop down.
Compose the pictures to better fit in the space to the right so the text does not cover up anything important.
Offer a way to close or minimize the slideshow.

Between the slideshow and the gap for the banner ad (any way to collapse that for subscribers?), I only see the headlines and the first few lines for the top two articles.

View attachment 65326


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## MReav

Overall, I don't mind, but can you re-add the fan content stuff (or just a link to it) on the front page?


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## Morrus

MReav said:


> Overall, I don't mind, but can you re-add the fan content stuff (or just a link to it) on the front page?




I haven't taken it away. It's stuff I gather and post when there's a decent chunk of it.


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## MReav

Morrus said:


> I haven't taken it away. It's stuff I gather and post when there's a decent chunk of it.




I meant to say it used to be on the side along with the polls, reviews, etc.


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## Morrus

MReav said:


> I meant to say it used to be on the side along with the polls, reviews, etc.




Fan content? No, it's never been along the side. It's always just been in the news posts.  Or were you referring to something else?


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## MReav

Morrus said:


> Fan content? No, it's never been along the side. It's always just been in the news posts.  Or were you referring to something else?




I was referring to the RSS Feed. I used to be able to access it from the main page, now it's on other pages.

View attachment 65330


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## Morrus

MReav said:


> I was referring to the RSS Feed. I used to be able to access it from the main page, now it's on other pages.
> 
> View attachment 65330




Ah, that!  Sadly, the issue with that is that it was one of the main contributors to the slowdowns we were having. I need to find some way around that.


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## MReav

Morrus said:


> Ah, that!  Sadly, the issue with that is that it was one of the main contributors to the slowdowns we were having. I need to find some way around that.




I'll settle for a link that I can Ctrl+F "Fan Content".


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## Grimjack99

Sometimes its aesthetics, sometimes its just what your used to, and sometimes its a strike.  I wanted to give the new layout over a week to see how it clicked.  Sorry, but not a fan.  Its less functional to me, but better aesthetically.  If its a choice, I'd prefer the prior edition.   That said, this is still the number one TRPG info site out there.  Do what you want, I'll still come.


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## Agglomérante

Agglomérante said:


> I find the narrower headings produce a blocky "tombstone" effect on the page. The dark grey background with the dark blue type are just these dark slabs on your page. Every article has the read-aloud-text-block background grey. The overall effect is cramped blocks! The existing while space is wasted in inconsistent gutters.
> 
> I'd lose all the heavy backgrounds, which will open up all kinds of white space, and let the large type of the headings guide the eye. At least use that as a starting point for a subtle design to guide the eye from article to article.




Here's the CSS to try (with !important declarations for testing only). It also gets rid of the "READ MORE" link. It's a well-understood Web convention that headings function as links in news portals such as this.

  .cms_separator { border-top: 0 !important; }

  div.article_preview { background-color: transparent !important; }

  div.title { background-color: transparent !important; }

  h3.article_preview center { text-align: left !important; }

  .cms_article_readmore { display: none !important; }

Here's what those changes look like on a 1366 x 768 monitor:

View attachment 65400

Huzzah!

Love the site! Keep up the good work


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## Morrus

I have to admit, that does look good.


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## Morrus

I just tried it, since the weekend is usually quiet.  What do you guys think?  An improvement?


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## Nellisir

Morrus said:


> I just tried it, since the weekend is usually quiet.  What do you guys think?  An improvement?




Yes.


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## Morrus

That said, I think it makes the comment count look a bit bullish.  I might need to move that.

Also, on a phone, the empty white space looks a bit too empty and randomly placed the way the now-invisible boxes shape.  Doesn't work quite as well as on a PC monitor. The shading and boxing definitely helped there.

I wish there was a way vbulletin let me just tell it to show only one column on a phone.


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## Agglomérante

Morrus said:


> That said, I think it makes the comment count look a bit bullish.  I might need to move that.
> 
> Also, on a phone, the empty white space looks a bit too empty and randomly placed the way the now-invisible boxes shape.  Doesn't work quite as well as on a PC monitor. The shading and boxing definitely helped there.
> 
> I wish there was a way vbulletin let me just tell it to show only one column on a phone.




Yay! It looks great.

The comment count doesn't need to be full caps bold, since it doesn't have to visually compete with all those strong blocks anymore. You can set it lowercase and normal type, try aligned right. Just the same word in the same spot on every block will draw the eye to it and imply that it plays a special role on the page.

I checked the layout out on Safari on iPhone and the space is identical to what it was before, it's just white space. Looks easy and clean to me. 

Re. single column, have you tried CSS media queries?

https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/CSS/Media_queries


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## Morrus

Agglomérante said:


> Re. single column, have you tried CSS media queries?
> 
> https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/docs/Web/Guide/CSS/Media_queries




I don't write this stuff!  Other than changing settings in the backend, the only way I was able to use your CSS was thorugh the magic of copy and paste.  I didn't even know where to put it, but vBulletin had a template called Additional CSS, so I took a guess, put it there, and it worked!


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## Agglomérante

Alas, there's no easy CSS fix for the loud COMMENTS as I suggested, but you can at least remove the bold:

.fullwidth b big big { font-weight: normal !important; }

That makes it yell a little less.

While I have your attention, how come there's no enworld database of user-generated adventures?


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## Morrus

There's a downloads section - that's where adventures would go.


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## Agglomérante

Try these two CSS rules:

  .cms_separator { border-top: 0 !important; }

  .fullwidth b big big { font-weight: normal !important; font-size: 80% !important; }

The first rule removes the dotted horizontal line. Resist the temptation to add that divider! Try the layout for a day without it. 

The second rule makes the comments count non-bold and smaller. It's still conspicuous because it repeats in the same spot in each block, it's just not punching out of the page as hard.


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## Agglomérante

Cool! 

Now to finish the job -- nuke the pointless grey background that runs down the left and right shoulders of the page. It's stealing roomy white space from your layout and serving no purpose:

  html { background-color: white !important; }

Your banner now looks like it's suspended from the top of the page, like a friendly neighbourhood pub sign.


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## Zaran

So may I ask, is 38% dislikes good enough to get the old news page back?


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## Morrus

Zaran said:


> So may I ask, is 38% dislikes good enough to get the old news page back?




62% want to keep it! I was going on a simple democratic vote as the fairest thing I could think of.


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## Nellisir

Morrus said:


> 62% want to keep it! I was going on a simple democratic vote as the fairest thing I could think of.



That's certainly what I assumed.  It's not the worst thing that's been done to the front page (I forget what it was, but there was a period when I set my bookmark to the forum rather than the frontpage specifically to skip the frontpage).


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## Agglomérante

Boo! The too-fat COMMENTS block is back. 

Did you want to try setting the less intrusive comments to be aligned left rather than right? Looks like so:

View attachment 65544

If that appeals, in the custom CSS I've provided, delete any CSS declarations for ".fullwidth b big big" other than these two:

.fullwidth b big big {
    font-weight: normal !important;
    font-size: 80% !important;
}

Here's the combined recommendations -- no borders between articles, no grey gutters down the outside margins, more discrete comment counts:

View attachment 65545


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## Jhaelen

Nellisir said:


> I wonder if I'm seeing what everyone else is, because I hate hate hate it. I'm not seeing "more at a glance"; I've got some kind of rolling banner up top that's showing the bottoms of pictures, most of which are meaningless, and then one or two massive "boxes" below it.



I agree about the rolling banner: It's useless, distracting and annoying. Just get rid of it, because apart from that I like the new layout.


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## Agglomérante

Jhaelen said:


> I agree about the rolling banner: It's useless, distracting and annoying. Just get rid of it, because apart from that I like the new layout.




The rolling banner is known as a "carousel" in user interface design, and it's the mullet of the web for the reasons given in this fantastic parody:

http://shouldiuseacarousel.com/

It takes me 14 seconds to read this paragraph, which is displayed for 7 seconds. It would take others longer if English isn't their first language, or they have some disability like dyslexia or low vision:

View attachment 65561

You could address that by using a carousel with a pause button. 

But just get rid of it -- unless your web stats show people are actually clicking on it (which is unlikely). 

Consider also that you're just cycling through the top 4 stories, which are _just below the fold anyway._ 

Instead, you might want to put that new two-column layout to good use, and show the top four stories above the fold. To pull that off, you have to remove the ad banner as well (but from just the home page); increase the font-size of the page title by half (from 20px to 30px), and presto, NEWS!


View attachment 65562

Resolution is 1366x768


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## PeterFitz

The only aspect of the new layout I dislike is the animated article preview banner header, which to my mind adds little functionality, slows page loading, reduces the 'above-the-fold' content area, and creates a visual distraction.


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