# Kissing a shy girl.



## RangerWickett (Mar 19, 2005)

This is as much for me as it is for my new girlfriend, Cat.  Yesterday morning I woke up cheery in the aftermath of a St. Patty's Day party.  I wasn't hung over, and I'd spent the previous night holding hands with Cat as we partied and chatted with friends.  Friday morning I had a job interview for a great position, and I was optimistic, and in the evening I'd be gaming with my friends, at Cat's place, so I could spend time with her afterward.

Well, the interview was so brief that I don't think it's going to go anywhere, the game ran long and was interrupted when my mom called to ask me why I hadn't called her on Wednesday to wish her happy birthday, and when the game did finally end, though Cat and I were really enjoying each other's company, she did not like it when I kissed her.

It was her first kiss, my umpteen millionth.  She said that she didn't think she was any good at 'relationship stuff,' and then she said I needed to go because she needed to sleep.  It was a complete bummer, made worse by my attempts to cheer her up and get her to try again.  For a while she just kept looking down, like she was embarrassed to look at me.  Of course we both said that everything was alright, but dang, I feel bad now.

I just woke up an hour ago (noon), and I have work in 2 hours.  I don't want to go to work feeling depressed over trying to kiss a girl I like.  I'm afraid to call her because I don't want to pressure her.  I know this will hopefully be silly in the long run, but right now I'm rather sad and mopey.


----------



## fusangite (Mar 19, 2005)

I'm lost here RangerWickett. You need to present us with some evidence for why you are referring to this individual as your girlfriend. How recently have you begun referring to her in this way publicly? How does someone even enter the girlfriend category without a successful kiss anyway?

In my experience, early physical contacts are a test to determine whether mutual goodwill will transform into a relationship; and these tests proceed as a series of higher-stakes, more intense stages. Early physical contacts are like an obstacle course -- different tests with escalating levels of difficulty that are all, nonetheless, part of the same event. Just because you passed the hand-holding test doesn't mean you've passed the kiss test. Clearing the hurdle just gives you a chance to fit through the tunnel of tires; it doesn't offer you any surety you will get through it. Once you fail _any_ test, you've lost.

I could also use the metaphor of a final exam. The fact that you're sitting the exam means that you have met most of the conditions for passing the course. But if you fail the final, all the tests leading up to it suddenly become worthless in the face of this final failure. So, the fact that the kiss didn't work out makes all the hand holding irrelevant. It seems to me that Cat has just gone from being _nearly_ your girlfriend to _not_ your girlfriend.


----------



## caudor (Mar 19, 2005)

One important question that may shed some light on her reaction:  was anyone else in the room present when you kissed her?  If so, that may be what made her uncomfortable.

If not, and if you value your relationship with this person, I would suggest that you gently apologize to her and ask if everything is OK.  Tell her you didn't intend to make her feel uncomfortable and will put things on cruise control until she is ready for something like that.  From your description, her body language suggests she might not be ready for kissing just yet, or perhaps it was just the wrong time or place.

Good luck.


----------



## RangerWickett (Mar 19, 2005)

No worries now, actually.  I just talked to her, and she was just nervous because it was her first kiss.  And yes, she is my girlfriend.  She's said so much herself.  She's just a little more skittish about romance than I'm used to.  But we're happy now.


----------



## JaccoNamori (Mar 19, 2005)

I agree with the man with the scary scary clown avatar 

But, after that, if shes alright with the smooching thing. I would reccomend a soft shoulder squeeze to get her attention, looking into her eyes for a second or so, brushing her cheek with the back of your other hand, saying something like "Im SO going to kiss you now." And THEN kissing. It may be the unexpectedness of it that ruined it for her. Or an unromantic approach.

Good luck! 

Edit : Blimey Wickett, you post like the wind!


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Mar 19, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> I'm lost here RangerWickett. You need to present us with some evidence for why you are referring to this individual as your girlfriend. How recently have you begun referring to her in this way publicly? How does someone even enter the girlfriend category without a successful kiss anyway?




I'm with Fusangite here.  Unless your or her mutual definition of "girlfriend" is much different from mine, or you mean "girl friend", I'd say a kiss is the bare minimum for a relationship.  Hand holding's nice, but I've held my little brother's hand when crossing the street - doesn't mean we're going steady.

One more thing: I have no idea how old the both of you are, but she's _never been kissed before?_  Jeez, and here I thought I had a lonely adolescence.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Mar 19, 2005)

Okay, say to yourself...this is easy, this is not hard, this is simple...make it your mantra, don't make things more difficult than they are, kissing a girl, is that, as you know, don't read more into the reaction than that is, don't read anything into understanding a girl at all or you will go crazy.  

...this is easy, this is not hard, this is simple...

Remember, this is also not always the best place to ask for advice.


----------



## der_kluge (Mar 19, 2005)

This isn't an actual cat is it?  I mean, never been kissed, skittish?  You're not dating an actual feline, are you, RW?

Cause that's just weird.


----------



## caudor (Mar 19, 2005)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> This isn't an actual cat is it?  I mean, never been kissed, skittish?  You're not dating an actual feline, are you, RW?
> 
> Cause that's just weird.




If she is an actual cat, then my advice still applies.  However, I'd avoid any further such encounters if she has tuna-breath....it could get ugly    

Anyway, it is good to hear you have worked things out.


----------



## BiggusGeekus (Mar 19, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Remember, this is also not always the best place to ask for advice.




Well, he may not have an account at Nutkinland.

Good luck, Ranger Wicket!  Sounds like a very long, but very rewarding road you're going down.


----------



## Krieg (Mar 19, 2005)

See the Cat and the Ewok.
When they're alone he tries to kiss.
Cat and the Ewok.
She stops too embarassed.
Her first time around, the moment she held her ground.
She don’t know why, she don’t know why.
Cat and the ewok.


----------



## Lady_Acoma (Mar 19, 2005)

Hey, if they both term it as boyfriend and girlfriend that works for me, regardless of what has physically happened.  And I know that I myself did get my first kiss till I was 17 just because I knew I wasn't ready and didn't want to rush it though I had plenty of oppertunities.  I would just suggest however to do very tender light kisses to start giving her some room to explore herself without preasure.  But anyway good luck!


----------



## tarchon (Mar 19, 2005)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> This isn't an actual cat is it?  I mean, never been kissed, skittish?  You're not dating an actual feline, are you, RW?
> 
> Cause that's just weird.




Remember, catnip is hip, but tuna is soona.


----------



## fusangite (Mar 19, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> No worries now, actually.  I just talked to her, and she was just nervous because it was her first kiss.  And yes, she is my girlfriend.  She's said so much herself.  She's just a little more skittish about romance than I'm used to.  But we're happy now.



Glad things worked out for you. I wish I inhabited the parallel universe you live in; it seems like a much more hospitable, forgiving place than the one I inhabit.


----------



## Angcuru (Mar 20, 2005)

I may not have much experience in the relationship department, but I have a lot in the observation department.  If they say they're 'boyfriend and girlfriend', then they are.  Just because they have a different approach than most people doesn't mean there isn't something there.

Now I'm just left wondering if her name is actually Cat, or you're giving us the short version of Catherine or Katrina.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Mar 20, 2005)

I just hope she or any of her friends do not visit the site!


----------



## Lazybones (Mar 20, 2005)

Interesting new story hour, but the first post was kinda short. Don't forget to post stats in the Rogues' Gallery.


----------



## Rel (Mar 20, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Clearing the hurdle just gives you a chance to fit through the tunnel of tires...




I'm smiling just *thinking* about the "tunnel of tires"!

IYKWIMAITYD


----------



## Alzrius (Mar 20, 2005)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> This isn't an actual cat is it?  I mean, never been kissed, skittish?  You're not dating an actual feline, are you, RW?
> 
> Cause that's just weird.




Hey now, being judgmental has no place here. Prejudice is wrong!


----------



## RangerWickett (Mar 20, 2005)

You guys are silly.  Her name's Catherine, she's 20 (I'm 23), and I have the honor of being her first kiss.  Of course she'd be nervous; I mean, she was 20 years old and had never been kissed.  She's dated before, but somehow her boyfriends never kissed her.

I don't care if people make jokes.  We're giddy around each other, because both of us had tried and failed a lot of times to get dates before, so we were both worried about asking the other out and ruining a really good friendship.  But thankfully the affection was highly mutual.  I'm happy.


----------



## der_kluge (Mar 20, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> You guys are silly.  Her name's Catherine, she's 20 (I'm 23), and I have the honor of being her first kiss.  Of course she'd be nervous; I mean, she was 20 years old and had never been kissed.  She's dated before, but somehow her boyfriends never kissed her.
> 
> I don't care if people make jokes.  We're giddy around each other, because both of us had tried and failed a lot of times to get dates before, so we were both worried about asking the other out and ruining a really good friendship.  But thankfully the affection was highly mutual.  I'm happy.





You crazy kids. Sounds like you're in love. Good for you. 

I remember my first kiss. It was at band camp. Seriously. And the girl was really ugly, actually. And it was a french kiss of all things, so that was doubly weird. And yes, I'm a geek, and I have a lot of band camp stories. And that damned movie RUINED them for me!




			
				Alzrius said:
			
		

> Hey now, being judgmental has no place here. Prejudice is wrong!




You're right. I should be more accepting of others' alternative lifestyles.


----------



## Krieg (Mar 20, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> I mean, she was 20 years old and had never been kissed.  She's dated before, but somehow her boyfriends never kissed her.




Dating without kissing?

That is pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum from what I was doing at age 20.   

It is quite adorable though.


----------



## Wormwood (Mar 20, 2005)

I've never felt older. In my life.

"Youth is wasted on the young"


----------



## Krieg (Mar 20, 2005)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> I've never felt older. In my life.




Not to mention corrupt.


----------



## Wormwood (Mar 20, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> Not to mention corrupt.



No, _that _I'm accustomed to.


----------



## RangerWickett (Mar 20, 2005)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> I've never felt older. In my life.
> 
> "Youth is wasted on the young"




I don't plan to waste it.  *grin*


----------



## BOZ (Mar 20, 2005)

it's not so strange.  i had my first kiss at 24.  of course, that same night i also had my first... oh, i'll tell you later when eric's grandma isn't looking - she's creeping me out.  



			
				BiggusGeekus said:
			
		

> Well, he may not have an account at Nutkinland.




yeah, they really love ENworld relationship threads over there.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Mar 20, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> I'm happy.



And that is all that matters.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 20, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> I don't care if people make jokes. We're giddy around each other, because both of us had tried and failed a lot of times to get dates before, so we were both worried about asking the other out and ruining a really good friendship. But thankfully the affection was highly mutual. I'm happy.




You, sir, rock.

As far as kissing...practice.  Lots and lots of practice.  Quick kisses.  Long kisses.  Spiderman-style kisses (y'know, upside-down...).  In the middle of the stairs (stop walking first, though).

Cheers
Nell.


----------



## Hellzon (Mar 20, 2005)

die_kluge said:
			
		

> I remember my first kiss. It was at band camp. Seriously. And the girl was really ugly, actually. And it was a french kiss of all things, so that was doubly weird. And yes, I'm a geek, and I have a lot of band camp stories. And that damned movie RUINED them for me!



 Alyson Hannigan is cute though.

And regarding ages, I'm 21, haven't been kissed yet. Not that I'm normal or anything.


----------



## Wycen (Mar 20, 2005)

Fill us in when you try your first public display of affection.


----------



## MrFilthyIke (Mar 20, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> That is pretty much the opposite end of the spectrum from what I was doing at age 20.




I hear ya, I remember what I was doing, and it was corrupt IYKWIMAITYD.


----------



## Angcuru (Mar 20, 2005)

Since this has turned into a "I remember my first..." thread, I'll chip in.

If I remember correctly, _technically_ I recieved my first kiss in 2nd grade.  Buuuut I'm thinking that doesn't count.


----------



## Pbartender (Mar 20, 2005)

I don't remember my first kiss, but I do remember the first time I kissed my wife.



			
				RangerWickett said:
			
		

> I don't care if people make jokes.  We're giddy around each other, because both of us had tried and failed a lot of times to get dates before, so we were both worried about asking the other out and ruining a really good friendship.  But thankfully the affection was highly mutual.  I'm happy.




It was almost exactly like that.

Now, two years of dating, almost seven years of marriage, and two kids later...  It still is.

Thanks, RW...  You just made my day.


----------



## ssampier (Mar 21, 2005)

Sounds cool.  I guess I don't feel so weird, since I'm 24 and never had a relationship before. Been on a few dates, kissed a few girls, but never a relationship.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Mar 21, 2005)

I didn't have a relationship until I was in my 20s (this was long before I got into gaming). I don't count the guy my sis "hooked" me up with because that guy gave me a bit o' the "creepies".... ::shudder:: Heck. I'd rather kiss a wookiee!    But we won't go there.......   

I did only date one guy for about 6 years but it didn't work out in the end because we were just too similar in personality (the quiet, introverted type) to keep it "interesting" and haven't dated since. People thought I dated a once best friend of mine who, despite how he acted, claimed we never dated. He lost his "best friend" status as a result of that. I still hate him for that stunt but, don't ask me why or how, we're still friends......  :\


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Mar 21, 2005)

BOZ said:
			
		

> it's not so strange.  i had my first kiss at 24.  of course, that same night i also had my first... oh, i'll tell you later when eric's grandma isn't looking - she's creeping me out.




Talk about.....erm.... killing two birds with one stone, eh?


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 21, 2005)

Angcuru said:
			
		

> Since this has turned into a "I remember my first..." thread, I'll chip in.
> If I remember correctly, _technically_ I recieved my first kiss in 2nd grade. Buuuut I'm thinking that doesn't count.




I didn't date in high school, soooo...the first kiss I can remember was my first or second day of college, when I hooked up with the insane turkish girl.  Really.  It was an...interesting initiation into the world of relationships.  I got out of it when she took to chasing her roommate around with a knife (oddly enough, the roommate stayed.)

Pretty quite for a few years after that, then there was the engaged girl (I didn't know until my cousin clued me in about the fiance and his presence at marine boot camp), then the girl with the baby (not mine, but she was/is very nice; she's best friends with someone in my family so we're "quasi" in touch), then the girl with only one mood (melancholy, which got old pretty quick), then my first really serious love (the first kiss with whom I DO recall), then the shoe girl at the department store (who I met again after she graduated from college - studied russian - and then joined the, ah, army & was trained in arabic & sent to Iraq, where I believe she still is), my second really serious girlfriend, and then my wife.

I got smarter as I got older, I think.  The last 4 were all good catches, though the last was the keeper.

 
Nell.


----------



## BOZ (Mar 21, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Talk about.....erm.... killing two birds with one stone, eh?




it was a memorable evening.


----------



## Jamdin (Mar 21, 2005)

Let me see if I got this straight: you kissed her after a gaming session that went into overtime. Maybe you should have used a breath mint or a Brush Up before you did the deed. Of course, you could have offered her one too. Maybe she was just self-conscious about bad breath.


----------



## Berandor (Mar 21, 2005)

Jamdin said:
			
		

> Let me see if I got this straight: you kissed her after a gaming session that went into overtime. Maybe you should have used a breath mint or a Brush Up before you did the deed. Of course, you could have offered her one too. Maybe she was just self-conscious about bad breath.



 Maybe she was still angry that you stole loot from her character?


----------



## Naathez (Mar 21, 2005)

First things first : I'm EVER so happy for you. wish you the best.

On a "I remember my first" note, I do. I was 14, on holiday. There was this girl, and both I and another guy liked her. We spent a lot of time together, the 3 of us, spent evenings together running about the hotel, played all day in the pool. One afternoon, it was me and her in a corner, and it happened - she kissed me.

What I found out the following day is she'd become the other guy's g-friend on the first day we'd all met. (Yes, I'd never realized. I WAS that dense.) When I asked why she'd kissed me, reply was "well you looked SO sad... I... I felt sorry for you, and after all it wasn't such a big deal for me to do that, cost me nothing." I was so hurt I actually didn't know what to answer.

My wife once said she'd love to meet that girl. I don't think anything nice would ensue, for the girl anyways.


----------



## likuidice (Mar 21, 2005)

Thread hijack:
I'm kinda having a relationship problem too, gaming related. My girl is threatening to leave me. The problem seems to be that she thinks gaming is for kids. I've already cut down from 2 nights a week to just one, killing an eberron campaign I was running in the process. But this still isnt enough. I have no idea how to deal with this situation. she has basically told me to grow up. The thing is, she's met the rest of the guys, thinks theyre cool. I've explained to her that gaming is just for fun, but she has this idea that all I do is think about gaming. Simply because I buy a new book each month, and play (or used to) twice a week, though i spend almost all the rest of my time with her, i've invited her to play, so she can see what goes on, but shes not interested. I really care about her, but i'm totally stuck.


----------



## Kathaer (Mar 21, 2005)

That's all so... sweet!


----------



## Naathez (Mar 21, 2005)

Kathaer, I'm Italian, I'm a bard, I love pizza and spaghetti and I have moustache (well a goatee actually). But I couldn't play a mandolino to save my life.

Likuidice...  yours isn't a simple situation. I believe this : we, each of us (us being "human beings") deserves respect for what we are, whatever that is, as long as this "whatever" does not come to harm anyone. That said, I believe we also deserve to have that "someone special" in our life be the first to give that respect. So, if this person does not understand and respect your hobby, you should deeply consider HER maturity. I know it's not easy. When we love someone, we want to see the best and only the best about them, and we pretend bad things aren't there. But I believe that (OF COURSE, as long as your hobby does not detract from your time and caring for your g-friend. It also goes with what I said before that the "someone special" in our life should always be our first and foremost concern.) you deserve for her to respect your hobby, and not consider it "childish". If she can't... perhaps this is not the relationship of your life. And this has nothing to do with WHAT your hobby is. It has to do with mutual respect and caring.


----------



## ironmani (Mar 21, 2005)

likuidice said:
			
		

> Thread hijack:
> I'm kinda having a relationship problem too, gaming related. My girl is threatening to leave me. The problem seems to be that she thinks gaming is for kids. I've already cut down from 2 nights a week to just one, killing an eberron campaign I was running in the process. But this still isnt enough. I have no idea how to deal with this situation. she has basically told me to grow up. The thing is, she's met the rest of the guys, thinks theyre cool. I've explained to her that gaming is just for fun, but she has this idea that all I do is think about gaming. Simply because I buy a new book each month, and play (or used to) twice a week, though i spend almost all the rest of my time with her, i've invited her to play, so she can see what goes on, but shes not interested. I really care about her, but i'm totally stuck.



Try this. I use to game twice a week, blah, blah, blah. All that stuff. My wife finally got pissed at me since she felt I wasnt spending any time with her. So I compromised. I cut back to once a week gaming, and made sure I spent time with her. Just asking, "So how was your day." and actually listening, and not just nodding, does wonders. She still gets pouty when I go off to play a pick up game here and there, but she knows I'll....uh make it up to her    If she totally like "Its the games or me." this wont be the only time she pulls that card.


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 21, 2005)

likuidice said:
			
		

> Thread hijack:
> I'm kinda having a relationship problem too, gaming related. My girl is threatening to leave me. The problem seems to be that she thinks gaming is for kids. ... I have no idea how to deal with this situation. she has basically told me to grow up. .




This is going to sound harsh, but...let her go.  You have a right to activities that you enjoy, particularly ones that you engaged in before you met her.  For her to "basically" tell you to grow up shows a lack of respect that probably wouldn't go away even if you did quit gaming.  Furthermore, her willingness to end the relationship over it raises a big red flag -- how long is she going to stick around during a real problem?

My wife thinks RPGs are boring, but I think the same about working out at the gym* or playing volleyball, so we're accept that we're even -- and I'm actually home alot more often than she is.

Cheers
Nell.

*I watch what I eat and my job is very physical -- I'm in good shape.  I just can't do the whole gym thing.


----------



## Rel (Mar 21, 2005)

likuidice said:
			
		

> Thread hijack:
> I'm kinda having a relationship problem too, gaming related. My girl is threatening to leave me. The problem seems to be that she thinks gaming is for kids.




I gotta go with the others on this one.  There are probably people out there who will tell you that your relationship is more important than *some game*.  But it isn't the game that is the problem.  The problem is RESPECT.

She doesn't respect you.  She may say she does and she may even think that she does.  But if she did then she wouldn't belittle and hold hostility toward something you enjoy that does not in any way harm her.  If your passion was for a dangerous sport or for gambling away your paycheck at poker night every week then she _might_ have a leg to stand on.  But the only stress your gaming causes her is that it is time that you are not spending being with or thinking about her.

I sincerely doubt that this behavior will stay confined to this single issue.  Particularly if you cave and she sees that the "do what I want or I'm leaving" card works.  That path leads only to the life of the miserable, henpecked husband so far as I can see.

I know it sounds funny, but I think you're in a "win-win" situation here if you stand up to her.  If you tell her that gaming is not illegal, immoral or fattening and if it bothers her enough then the door is right over there, she'll either stay or leave.  If she stays then she'll have learned that you are willing to fight for things that are important to you and may even learn some respect for you.  If she goes then I think you will be better off with someone else in the long run anyway.

I wish you luck and strength.


----------



## Henry (Mar 21, 2005)

RangerW, my man, I wish you both luck and the best of times.

Likuidice, I was going to post, saw Rel's post, and now just want to say, "ditto" to that. My wife, who is not a gamer, has no interest in gaming, and thinks it's her husband's "cute hobby", has respect for me and the time I desire to put into it. As long as I take care of home responsibilities, as long as I dedicate a reasonable portion of the week to seeing to her needs, and as long as I'm not doing anything harmful to myself or others, she sees to it that I get what I want in terms of gaming time. The ratio is different for each person, but if someone has no respect for who you are before marriage, they won't magically have respect after marriage, either.

It's an issue you need to sit down with her and sincerely talk about. If she feels like she's not getting something from you that she needs, then's the time to hear it. If all she wants is for you to stop gaming because "it's silly" or it makes her embarrassed with her friends, or something similar, then she needs to understand that it'll be a permanent part of your life, like sports, or a profession you enjoy, or a child from a previous marriage.


----------



## fusangite (Mar 21, 2005)

Likuidice, I think people are jumping the gun on giving you advice here. 

It all depends on how committed you are to this woman and how easy it would be for you to find another satisfactory partner. If you are very committed to this person and think it would be very very difficult to find a worthy partner in future, perhaps you should cave in to these admittedly unreasonable demands.


----------



## Rel (Mar 21, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Likuidice, I think people are jumping the gun on giving you advice here.
> 
> It all depends on how committed you are to this woman and how easy it would be for you to find another satisfactory partner. If you are very committed to this person and think it would be very very difficult to find a worthy partner in future, perhaps you should cave in to these admittedly unreasonable demands.




I respect your right to disagree, fusangite, but I assure you that I was not "jumping the gun" if, by using that phrase, you think that my advice was flippant or not well considered.  If I were to name the top two reasons that I've seen relationships turn bad and eventually destroy themselves, the first reason would be "lack of trust".  The second would be "lack of respect".

I'm saying that if she does not respect Likuidice and his enjoyment of his hobby then this relationship will almost certainly end badly anyway.  Therefore he risks nothing by making a stand over something like this.

If we were talking about a one-time "unreasonable demand" then I would advise nothing of the sort.  If, for example, he had been planning for months to go to GenCon or another gaming event and she suddenly decided that she wanted him to go with her to visit her parents instead, then I'd have probably advised that he give in with the understanding that in the future he wanted a bit more consideration.  But we're talking about her demanding that he give up a hobby that has been a substantial part of his life and one that he would wish to pursue presumably for many years to come.

Every time he hears a friend talk about the cool game they had last week or pops onto ENWorld or drives past the local game store, he's going to think about the fact that he's not gaming.  And it's all because of HER!  That will wear away at you over time and Likuidice will probably become resentful and unpleasant.  And that's assuming that she doesn't try and clean up other aspects of his personality that she doesn't like.  Who needs it?!

If the person that you cling to in this world as your mate is also the primary source of your misery then you ain't doin' something right.  Yes, in a committed relationship, that person has the right to ask for certain concessions from time to time, even if they're a tad on the unreasonable side.  We all do it.  But we should also expect that, deep down, they have our happiness in mind and want us to take joy in life.  Telling Likuidice that he should give up his hobby because she thinks it is "silly" is nothing but a power play.

Maybe I've been spoiled by having a great relationship with my wife, but I'd rather be alone and at least free to pursue my interests than to be with someone who wants to squash my happiness.

YMMV


----------



## devilish (Mar 21, 2005)

Err!!!   The thread-hijack is making my blood boil...deep breath deep breath.
*cough*

Ok. 

Likuidice,
First off, your mileage may vary; you may have found *the* person; take time
to soul search; etc.

In _my_ experience, after I got married, my wife's "discomfort" at me roleplaying
turned into "you can't - it's either rp or me."  I roleplayed 1X every 2 weeks, bought
only the core books, nothing extreme or addict-like.  Just she didn't see the
point of the childish-game.  And she didn't like some of the people I roleplayed
with for, I found out later, bigoted reasons.

Next to go were computer games.

Next to go after that was reading and writing science fiction.

I did it all because I thought, as fusangite mentioned: " If you are very committed to this 
person and think it would be very very difficult to find a worthy partner in future, perhaps 
you should cave in to these admittedly unreasonable demands."

(no offense, friend fusangite -- my mileage varied.)

You can guess what happened.


Now, I'm happily divorced, reunited after many years with my roleplaying
friends,  enjoying my hobbies, and loving life with a ferocity that pales
my beleaguered married life.  

Of course, there were more problems in my marriage than roleplaying, hobbies, etc.
But my spider-sense kicked off early on and I should've listened to it, should've
respected my private-time, should've known better.  

In essence, likuidice, I remembered when I was sitting where you are now.

Again, your mileage may vary -- maybe there's a deeper issue with her that you 
need to look at, find out why she's uncomfortable with your "kid's" game ( which
should be a hint);  

*steps off soapbox and dusts it off*

sorry folks.  Just telling the tale from someone who just came out from 
the other side.

-D


----------



## Rel (Mar 21, 2005)

I just now remembered that fusangite recently said that he primarily came to ENWorld to argue.  Maybe that last post just puts him in a position to "stir the pot".


----------



## devilish (Mar 21, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I just now remembered that fusangite recently said that he primarily came to ENWorld to argue.  Maybe that last post just puts him in a position to "stir the pot".




Ha!  Then he succeeded valiantly!   I was annoyed from earlier posts but his
put me over the edge.

Rel :  excellent points made in your post #51 

RW [as per your original post] :
Congratulations and enjoy -- sip every moment and experience the flowering
of your relationship one blessed second at a time.


----------



## devilish (Mar 21, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> In my experience, early physical contacts are a test to determine whether mutual goodwill will transform into a relationship; and these tests proceed as a series of higher-stakes, more intense stages. Early physical contacts are like an obstacle course -- different tests with escalating levels of difficulty that are all, nonetheless, part of the same event. Just because you passed the hand-holding test doesn't mean you've passed the kiss test. Clearing the hurdle just gives you a chance to fit through the tunnel of tires; it doesn't offer you any surety you will get through it. Once you fail _any_ test, you've lost.
> 
> I could also use the metaphor of a final exam. The fact that you're sitting the exam means that you have met most of the conditions for passing the course. But if you fail the final, all the tests leading up to it suddenly become worthless in the face of this final failure. So, the fact that the kiss didn't work out makes all the hand holding irrelevant. It seems to me that Cat has just gone from being _nearly_ your girlfriend to _not_ your girlfriend.




This was very well put, by the way (and saying this was the reason I was
going to post here in the first place  ).  

Though, like certain entrance exams, I found that you can take the test "twice" 
before getting a pass/fail grade.   After 2 times though, you're stuck
with the results you've got.

My only problem is ..... hijack alert ... is why does it always seem that the
men are taking the exam and the women are the ones administering the
exam?


----------



## fusangite (Mar 21, 2005)

devilish said:
			
		

> My only problem is ..... hijack alert ... is why does it always seem that the
> men are taking the exam and the women are the ones administering the exam?



Because we're not ducks. In our species, the females have the beautiful plumage.


----------



## Desdichado (Mar 21, 2005)

Pbartender said:
			
		

> I don't remember my first kiss, but I do remember the first time I kissed my wife.



Same here.  And my wife said our first kiss sucked, too.

Although she does admit that our second kiss; and all of the subsequent ones, were superlative examples of the art.


----------



## likuidice (Mar 21, 2005)

Thanks guys, i'm taking it on board, i've had girlfriends, and i'm quite sure i can find another one, but this one really does make me happy, other than the games stuff, i think she has some insecurity issues, but we'll try to work things out.


----------



## Naathez (Mar 22, 2005)

Best of luck to you, likuidice. Hope we helped, at least a little.


----------



## Dirigible (Mar 22, 2005)

> Because we're not ducks. In our species, the females have the beautiful plumage.




Try telling that to my fine, bristling beard.


----------



## reanjr (Mar 22, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Remember, this is also not always the best place to ask for advice.




That's the thing that always pops into my head when I hear questions like this.  I suppose anonymous questioning among a group of people whose opinion you respect is always good, but I just can't get the feeling out of my head that ENWorld just doesn't seem like the place.  Maybe I just prefer real life interaction too much.

That said, I wanted to disagree with the single failure, give up take on the situation.  Persistence pays off in many aspects of life.  This is just one of them.  Though, maybe I'm not the best person to listen to.  I have a horrible problem with moving friendly flirtation to something more than friendly.  It's much easier to start out with romantic intentions, though it is not successful more often than not.  Which just leads me to believe I fall into the nice guy trap easily.  I'm going to go cry now.

See what you made do, RangerWickett!! You made me cry!! 

...

 I'm OK now.


----------



## reanjr (Mar 22, 2005)

devilish said:
			
		

> My only problem is why does it always seem that the
> men are taking the exam and the women are the ones administering the
> exam?




Societal expectation?  Men are more comfortable with failure?  Men are more needy of a relationship?


----------



## Nellisir (Mar 22, 2005)

devilish said:
			
		

> why does it always seem that the men are taking the exam and the women are the ones administering the exam?




Whether you attribute it to societal or biological influences (or both), men are typically more aggressive and overt in seeking to initiating a relationship.  That puts the woman in the role of accepting or declining it.  The man, presumably, has already administered his "test", and if she failed, he wouldn't be pursuing her.

Beautiful plumage.   
Nell.


----------



## Dyne (Mar 25, 2005)

reanjr said:
			
		

> That's the thing that always pops into my head when I hear questions like this. I suppose anonymous questioning among a group of people whose opinion you respect is always good, but I just can't get the feeling out of my head that ENWorld just doesn't seem like the place. Maybe I just prefer real life interaction too much.
> 
> That said, I wanted to disagree with the single failure, give up take on the situation. Persistence pays off in many aspects of life. This is just one of them. Though, maybe I'm not the best person to listen to. I have a horrible problem with moving friendly flirtation to something more than friendly. It's much easier to start out with romantic intentions, though it is not successful more often than not. Which just leads me to believe I fall into the nice guy trap easily. I'm going to go cry now.
> 
> ...




You know what's worse? Falling into the "nice guy trap" before you have any relationship with the girl, or even know much more than her name.

Don't even ask how that's possible. I'm not even sure myself.


----------



## Acquana (Mar 25, 2005)

*It's not as bad as it seems.*



			
				fusangite said:
			
		

> Glad things worked out for you. I wish I inhabited the parallel universe you live in; it seems like a much more hospitable, forgiving place than the one I inhabit.




Hey, Cynic McAngstyFace over there!  Ease off, man, and let the drama llama out to graze.  You wanna think this is waaaay more complicated than it is.  It's just relationships.  I know that sounds retarded, but it's true. 

The guy I'm with now was shy too, Rangerwickett, but I think you know most of that story.  Heck, my guy was 21 before his first kiss!  And he's a guy!  And ... um ... I stole his first kiss without knowing.  -_-;;

The physical stuff just satisfies a biological need, the emotional need is the one that needs to be bolstered first.  It's perfectly fine for someone to be conisdered "going out" before anything happens.  Some people just need more time, usually when inexperienced and intimidated by their partner's history.

Slow down, dudes, seriously.  Watch for signals in your partner.  If they're shy by nature, let them be the one leading.  It's frustrating as all heck when you've been farther before and have to start all over ... slowly ... But hey, it's worth it if you care, right?  I let _my_ guy lead when we started going out.  Everything's wonderful now!

And, hey, RW.  Congrats.  Seriously.  Coming from a rather *ahem* aggressive woman, I knew you would be taken off guard by shy.  Believe me, I felt the same way with mine.  I was constantly afraid I was going to scare him off.  So don't worry.  You'll do fine.


----------



## fusangite (Mar 25, 2005)

Acquana said:
			
		

> You wanna think this is waaaay more complicated than it is.  It's just relationships.  I know that sounds retarded, but it's true.



My uncle held seven world records in Track and Field between 1959 and 1968 and won a bronze medal at the 1964 Olympics in Tokyo. He was the second person in the world to run 100m in 10 seconds flat. 

But his coaching, while very inspiring, left a lot to be desired in the field of technique. "Just run!" he would tell his athletes.


----------



## Acquana (Mar 25, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> My uncle held seven world records in Track and Field between 1959 and 1968 and won a bronze medal at the 1964 Olympics in Tokyo. He was the second person in the world to run 100m in 10 seconds flat.
> 
> But his coaching, while very inspiring, left a lot to be desired in the field of technique. "Just run!" he would tell his athletes.




So uh ... Are you in high school?  I don't think much more needs to be said than that.


----------



## fusangite (Mar 25, 2005)

Acquana said:
			
		

> So uh ... Are you in high school?  I don't think much more needs to be said than that.



So uh ... Evidently some remark I've made on this thread has offended you. For future reference, I would prefer it if you would notify me of what the offending remark was instead of proceeding directly to the ad hominem attacks.


----------



## RangerWickett (Mar 26, 2005)

Fusangite, you seem to think that Jessie-Lynn (Acquana) is pissed at you.  She's an ex of mine, so trust me, she's not angry at you.  It's just that she went through high school, and she thinks that she was a moron during high school.  She thinks that the level of bitterness you displayed about relationships is akin to how she felt during high school.

She may have lost touch slightly with how important high school relationships are _while you're in high school_.  Sure, now that she's graduated college she can look back and say she was a dolt and that all the worrying wasn't worth it in the long run, but at the time it was something she cared about, and not worrying would have been insincere.

So Fusi, don't take Jessie's comment as an attack.  She's just trying to say that being angry, sad, or angsty about how bad things are never helps.  In the long run it's better to have happy memories than angsty ones.

By the way, Jessie.  Fusangite is 9 years older than you.  So .

Of course, that doesn't mean angst still isn't silly.

And to give you guys an update, I went and hung out with Cat (my girlfriend) until 4am tonight, even though I have work tomorrow at 10am, because I enjoy spending time with her so much.  We have a date this Sunday, which will hopefully involve lots of sitting together, talking, holding hands, and watching Cowboy Bebop.  *grin*

So yeah, I need to go to bed.  *wink*


----------



## Rel (Mar 26, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> We have a date this Sunday, which will hopefully involve lots of sitting together, talking, holding hands, and watching Cowboy Bebop.  *grin*




Yes, but what about the kissing?


----------



## Greylock (Mar 26, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> See the Cat and the Ewok.
> When they're alone he tries to kiss.
> Cat and the Ewok.
> She stops too embarassed.
> ...




Ohmigawd, I can't stop laughing at this. LOL! Make it stop! The pain, the pain ~LOL!


----------



## fusangite (Mar 26, 2005)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> don't take Jessie's comment as an attack.  She's just trying to say that being angry, sad, or angsty about how bad things are never helps.  In the long run it's better to have happy memories than angsty ones.



I agree; certainly negatively obsessing about things is quite counter-productive. Occasionally blowing off steam about one's frustrations, on the other hand, is, I think, as important to one's ongoing mental health as not obsessing and, instead, focusing on the positive. 

Anyway, don't let any of this dim my congratulations and best wishes to you.


----------



## Dyne (Mar 27, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> I agree; certainly negatively obsessing about things is quite counter-productive. Occasionally blowing off steam about one's frustrations, on the other hand, is, I think, as important to one's ongoing mental health as not obsessing and, instead, focusing on the positive.




Yep. Focusing on the negative kills relationships. Trust me, I've done it before.

May you find great happiness in your relationship, Ranger Wickett. It sounds like you've got something truly special.


----------



## Krieg (Mar 27, 2005)

Greylock said:
			
		

> Ohmigawd, I can't stop laughing at this. LOL! Make it stop! The pain, the pain ~LOL!




Hey wait, I thought you had a fistfull of pain killers?!


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Mar 27, 2005)

Krieg said:
			
		

> Hey wait, I thought you had a fistfull of pain killers?!




Mind-altering pain killers.


----------

