# Players get mad at me (DM) when i enjoy other hobbies that are in my life. please help.



## Tim Hubick (Jun 8, 2014)

so i just wanted to start off with,  I'm a DM and I DM a group of 3 players.  currently we're in a campaign.   
I currently have a strong love for D&D, but i also have a very strong love for making tanks called Terrariums, Vivariums, and Paludariums. 
about a year ago, i started a pretty big project to build myself a 120gal vivarium tank.  it was extensive and the only time i had to work on it was on weekends.  well every sunday evening is when we play D&D.  
players were getting mad at me for skipping D&D to work on my hobby.   I work evenings till 8pm and after work i get pretty exhausted and i just wanna come home to relax.  
while i was working on that 120gal viv, it tooks 3 months to complete, and alot of money.   well in that time frame, i cancelled D&D to work on it. thus the players werent happy with me.  

Now thats all done and we're gaming again. but now i have another Tank that i'm ready to build and now the players are worried and angry that i'm gonna take time off again to work on it.   
I do and I dont.   
how can i sort through this situation? how can i balance the two?


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## Nagol (Jun 8, 2014)

Gaming is a hobby.  Because it isn't a solo activity, it is also an obligation.  The typical social expectation is if you agree to play, you will endeavor to participate.  Being DM comes with additional obligation since the game can continue sans one or more players, but the DM is vital.

Deciding to drop one hobby activity for another when you are integral for others can be a problem.  I'd suggest you take a hard look at which activity you want to take priority.  If it isn't DMing, suggest one of the other players step up to the table and run a game.  That way if you do end up missing a block of time it has less impact of the rest of the people.


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## Elf Witch (Jun 8, 2014)

Tim Hubick said:


> so i just wanted to start off with,  I'm a DM and I DM a group of 3 players.  currently we're in a campaign.
> I currently have a strong love for D&D, but i also have a very strong love for making tanks called Terrariums, Vivariums, and Paludariums.
> about a year ago, i started a pretty big project to build myself a 120gal vivarium tank.  it was extensive and the only time i had to work on it was on weekends.  well every sunday evening is when we play D&D.
> players were getting mad at me for skipping D&D to work on my hobby.   I work evenings till 8pm and after work i get pretty exhausted and i just wanna come home to relax.
> ...




I can understand why your players are getting angry and a little worried.  Most of us gamers are reasonable when it comers to real life interfering with games. But when it is another hobby always taking precedence you start to wonder just how much commitment to the game  the person has. I have played with players who have so many hobbies that come first and that does not work with our group we play every other week and if you can't make that schedule on a regular basis then you just are not a good fit for the group.  

My suggestion is to play every other week so that you can work on the tank on the weeks you don't play. That way you should be able to balance both.


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 8, 2014)

Just tell them you have to have down time and work out a schedule, game every other week or once a month.  

Personally, I am surprised they do not see the benefits of your hobby in the game terms, I mean, your hobby easily can be related to building locations and encounters on the tabletop.


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## Tim Hubick (Jun 9, 2014)

I agree with the every other weekend to play and to balance it all out.   i'll propose the idea to them of playing every 2nd weekend, so i can alternate back and forth from gaming and Live Tank building.  

as for tying the two together?  yeah i dont think i can put a grid system into one of my tanks lol  
i also have a Huge 10" Tarantula,  maybe i can gather the players up and put miniatures inside the tank to battle the mighty "Ecstasy" lol 


cheers guys  thanx


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## Elf Witch (Jun 9, 2014)

Tim Hubick said:


> I agree with the every other weekend to play and to balance it all out.   i'll propose the idea to them of playing every 2nd weekend, so i can alternate back and forth from gaming and Live Tank building.
> 
> as for tying the two together?  yeah i dont think i can put a grid system into one of my tanks lol
> i also have a Huge 10" Tarantula,  maybe i can gather the players up and put miniatures inside the tank to battle the mighty "Ecstasy" lol
> ...




I had a bearded dragon. One day I was sorting my miniatures out and I just decided to put him on the table he was like a ancient dragon kicking butt and taking names as he knocked them all over the place and stood on them. What I can I am easily entertained.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 9, 2014)

It's YOUR TIME.
Are you bailing at the last minute? Like Game is  supposed to start at 4 and you cancel at 3:30? If they have more than a  day's notice, they have not excuse to bitch.
Now, it does seem like  you are in danger or breaking the gaming group. But you know what? One  of them can run a game too. Just a thought. Unless the game for some reason absolutely has to be held at your place...


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## Scorpio616 (Jun 9, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> If they have more than a  day's notice, they have not excuse to bitch.



 A Day? A single day is nowhere adequate notice for a non emergency. Each person's time is valuable and for a lot of people, they have to juggle work and family obligations a week or more in advance to get even a single day clear.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jun 9, 2014)

Tim Hubick said:


> so i just wanted to start off with,  I'm a DM and I DM a group of 3 players.  currently we're in a campaign.
> I currently have a strong love for D&D, but i also have a very strong love for making tanks called Terrariums, Vivariums, and Paludariums.
> about a year ago, i started a pretty big project to build myself a 120gal vivarium tank.  it was extensive and the only time i had to work on it was on weekends.  well every sunday evening is when we play D&D.
> players were getting mad at me for skipping D&D to work on my hobby.   I work evenings till 8pm and after work i get pretty exhausted and i just wanna come home to relax.
> ...



Can't you schedule your time better? It just sounds like you have terrible time management skills. If you can't figure out ho to manage your time better, just quit playing D&D while you build the tank. Building the tanks is obviously more important to you than playing D&D with your three friends.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 9, 2014)

...or build tanks any other day except D&D night.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 9, 2014)

Yeah, A day. More than a day is enough notice to cancel. Sucks, but some times you just need to do something else for your own health.
Sounds like he's giving a week or two.
No grounds to bitch.


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## Umbran (Jun 9, 2014)

Hand of Evil said:


> Personally, I am surprised they do not see the benefits of your hobby in the game terms, I mean, your hobby easily can be related to building locations and encounters on the tabletop.




"Can be related" is not useful if they never see it in practice, HoE.


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## Ruin Explorer (Jun 9, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> Yeah, A day. More than a day is enough notice to cancel. Sucks, but some times you just need to do something else for your own health.
> Sounds like he's giving a week or two.
> No grounds to bitch.




As a DM, I  disagree. A day or so is an emergency cancellation (if you're the DM). A week or two is fine if you cancel rarely. If you keep scheduling games, though, then cancelling them, even with a week or more's notice, that's rubbish. You're basically pretending to DM, and giving people false hope.

If the OP is going to be out for, say, three months, as he was before, then he needs to tell the players that, sooner rather than later. They may well want to set up their own game instead.

If the hobby is something that isn't time-critical, I honestly have no idea why you'd cancel D&D and not that. Like, don't book it if you don't want to run it!


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jun 9, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> ...or build tanks any other day except D&D night.



Right. Like I said, he needs to learn how to schedule his time. I'm seeing this as all his fault. I'm sure the players could make other arrangements if they knew D&D wasn't going to be played on a particular day.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jun 9, 2014)

Ruin Explorer said:


> As a DM, I  disagree. A day or so is an emergency cancellation (if you're the DM). A week or two is fine if you cancel rarely. If you keep scheduling games, though, then cancelling them, even with a week or more's notice, that's rubbish. You're basically pretending to DM, and giving people false hope.
> 
> If the OP is going to be out for, say, three months, as he was before, then he needs to tell the players that, sooner rather than later. They may well want to set up their own game instead.
> 
> If the hobby is something that isn't time-critical, I honestly have no idea why you'd cancel D&D and not that. Like, don't book it if you don't want to run it!



Quoted for truthiness.


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## Umbran (Jun 9, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I'm sure the players could make other arrangements if they knew D&D wasn't going to be played on a particular day.




On any given day, stuff can happen.  Or you can find you're really just not in the mood, or something.  Sure, a day is annoying, but isn't a big deal.  

But in the OP, he says he took a 3-month hiatus from running a game while he took on another project.  If you need a multi-month break to do other things, that's the point you start discussing if maybe the gaming group needs to make other arrangements.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jun 9, 2014)

Umbran said:


> On any given day, stuff can happen.  Or you can find you're really just not in the mood, or something.  Sure, a day is annoying, but isn't a big deal.
> 
> But in the OP, he says he took a 3-month hiatus from running a game while he took on another project.  If you need a multi-month break to do other things, that's the point you start discussing if maybe the gaming group needs to make other arrangements.



Exactly. look, I'm sure every single one of us has had some instance where we had to cancel a D&D game for one reason or another. Hell, I'm betting it has happened more than once. That's nothing to get upset abot. However, when you know you are going to be working on a fairly long project, and you will more than likely cancel games often, you may as well just cancel D&D day or let the players know and let them make other arrangements. They have several options, such as getting another DM, one of them DMing, or doing some other activity. Unfortunately, it appears that the OP is quite selfish and gives the players the notion that he will be making game day, only to cancel it last minute.


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## sabrinathecat (Jun 9, 2014)

I'm sorry, but it still sounds to me like he's giving them more than a week's notice. That is _*PLENTY *_of time for them to make their own arrangements without the OP.
They have options.
Yes, they do.

No grounds for them to complain.
As for time management: sounds like some thought has gone into that. Some people are very busy and over-worked by their jobs and school. Y'know, because they need to be able to pay bills to afford to live and have goals to improve their lot so they _Can _one day have more free time.


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## Halivar (Jun 9, 2014)

"Dungeons & Dragons: Casual Gamers not Wanted"

Why, that sounds like an _awesome_ way to build the hobby. 

EDIT:


Umbran said:


> But in the OP, he says he took a 3-month hiatus from running a game while he took on another project. If you need a multi-month break to do other things, that's the point you start discussing if maybe the gaming group needs to make other arrangements.



After the third week, I would expect them to have done that already. Stuff happens. Games go on hiatus. Happens all the time in my group because we are working professionals and we have lives outside of our favorite game.

If the gaming group is unable to cope with this, then I suggest the problem is with everyone else.


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## Zombie_Babies (Jun 9, 2014)

Scorpio616 said:


> A Day? A single day is nowhere adequate notice for a non emergency. Each person's time is valuable and for a lot of people, they have to juggle work and family obligations a week or more in advance to get even a single day clear.




dood, they play every weekend.  Scheduling challenges don't seem to be an issue here.  One day notice when you're playing every single week is plenty.


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## Halivar (Jun 9, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> dood, they play every weekend.  Scheduling challenges don't seem to be an issue here.  One day notice when you're playing every single week is plenty.



*Scenario A: Tim is a player
*Player A: Tim's not gonna be here... _again_.
DM: Ok, we can [NPC him/leave him at the inn].
Everyone: (much rejoicing)

*Scenario B: Tim is the DM*
Player A: Tim's not gonna be here... _again._
Player B: Cool! Let's make characters for MY campaign!
Everyone: (much rejoicing)

I just don't see how this is a crisis.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 9, 2014)

Halivar said:


> *Scenario A: Tim is a player
> *Player A: Tim's not gonna be here... _again_.
> DM: Ok, we can [NPC him/leave him at the inn].
> Everyone: (much rejoicing)
> ...



Well, for one thing, not every group has a wellspring of multiple would-be game-masters. I'm not currently in that situation- almost everyone in our group has run _something_- but I have definitely been in groups where only one or two people volunteer to step behind the screen.

And just because you have the skill and desire, it doesn't mean you have the time.


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## Jan van Leyden (Jun 9, 2014)

The whole description sounds like a common situation turned on its head. In most cases it's the game master lamenting the fact that the players are less invested in the game than she is. You tell it like the players have more drive to game than you.

I propose you either try to set up a schedule you're willing to stick to, even if it means fewer game days. If you become reliable again, I'm sure the players can be satisfied. The other approach would be to entice a player to run the game or take over the GMing duties for some time. This would take some burden off you.

In the end you have to decide upon the priorities of your hobbies. RPGs have two points relevant to this case: you don't do it alone, and you can't do it as an isolated opportunity. Regard these parameters when setting your priorities and be sure to tell your players about the results.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jun 10, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> As for time management: sounds like some thought has gone into that. Some people are very busy and over-worked by their jobs and school.



I disagree. If he had put any effort into managing his time better, he wouldn't need to cancel a D&D game in order to work on the tanks. His previous tank took him three months. He knows it's going to take him some time to do a similar tank. It'll take him longer to do a more complex tank. He shouldn't schedule D&D games when he knows he is going to be doing something else. He can dedicate as much time as he wants to building the tanks. He should commit himself to playing a game only to repeatedly cancel, regardless of how long before he lets his group know. 



> Y'know, because they need to be able to pay bills to afford to live and have goals to improve their lot so they _Can _one day have more free time.



Time management is a skill that can get them there. No need to put off learning how to manage your time until you have more money and time.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jun 10, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> And just because you have the *skill* and desire, it doesn't mean you have the time.



Even if you have the time and desire, you need to have the skills. I've played in several groups where several groups. Some had only one person willing to DM, some had more than one. In those that had more than one, some of them had several that were good DMs, others had groups that the players would revolt if one of the players that sucked at DMing was going to DM. Having a bad DM is sometimes worse than not having any DM.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jun 10, 2014)

Yeah, I gave my own assertion short shrift.

Essentially, you need skill, desire, and time to GM- lack any one element, and GMing may not be a good fit for you.


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## Elf Witch (Jun 10, 2014)

Halivar said:


> "Dungeons & Dragons: Casual Gamers not Wanted"
> 
> Why, that sounds like an _awesome_ way to build the hobby.
> 
> ...




I totally disagree with this. Did you read the whole thing he took three months off to build a tank then he started the game up again and now he is saying he wants to build another tank and his players are worried that he going to take another long break. I don't blame them one bit for being upset it is not like they held a gun to his head and said you will run a game for us. Yes real life interferes with hobbies and if it is real life like a responsibility interfering then yes you need to be understanding.  But when it is another hobby it starts to be rude. If that hobby is more important than gaming that is okay but you need to be upfront and tell your group this so they can decide what to do.


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## Umbran (Jun 10, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> They have options.
> Yes, they do.
> 
> No grounds for them to complain.




The last bit does not flow from the first bit.  

Yes, they have options.  But on the other hand, the guy made an agreement to run a game.  He lapsed on that once, and is considering doing so again.  Yes, you fail in your agreements, folks are going to be cheesed off at you!

Now, it may be that extra time management won't help.  He has only so many free hours.  If the number of free hours is smaller than the amount of time to do all the stuff he wants to do, then no amount of time management is going to make it all fit.  That's when you have to prioritize.  Maybe something else takes priority over gaming in your life.  That's fine.  But you should be honest and up-front about that to the players before you start a campaign.  Set the expectations to match reality, or they *will* have a valid gripe when you fail to meet the commitment you led them to think you were making.


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## Umbran (Jun 10, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Well, for one thing, not every group has a wellspring of multiple would-be game-masters. I'm not currently in that situation- almost everyone in our group has run _something_- but I have definitely been in groups where only one or two people volunteer to step behind the screen.




This is the situation I'm in at the moment.  I am the only person in my current social circle willing to run a game with any regularity.  So, I don't get to play - if any gaming happens, it is because I'm putting it together.


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## Halivar (Jun 10, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Even if you have the time and desire, you need to have the skills...Having a bad DM is sometimes worse than not having any DM.



If you or your DM was a master storyteller from session 1, I would posit that you had unusually lucky circumstance. Many of us had to stumble through a lot of terrible games to become or build up awesome DM's.

DM'ing is a skill; it can be taught and learned. Suffer poor DM's well, and in time they may be poor no longer.




Elf Witch said:


> But when it is another hobby it starts to be rude. If that hobby is more important than gaming that is okay but you need to be upfront and tell your group this so they can decide what to do.



Sounds to me like the OP did exactly this. He was upfront; this tank he's building is more important than roleplaying. Life is too short to NOT invest in your true passion. Someone else in the group needs to step up and learn how to DM.


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## Ruin Explorer (Jun 10, 2014)

Halivar said:


> Sounds to me like the OP did exactly this. He was upfront; this tank he's building is more important than roleplaying. Life is too short to NOT invest in your true passion. Someone else in the group needs to step up and learn how to DM.




Well, it's unclear, because it doesn't sound to me like he's done this. What it sounds like is happening is the OP has said "I'll DM, don't worry! Play my campaign!", and then has been repeatedly cancelling his agreed gaming sessions - not in a straightforward "No games for three months, find something else to do!" way, but on a shorter-term basis, like he's saying "Oh, we'll playing in three weeks", then a week or two later, is say "Oh, nope, too busy with tank!".

Only the OP can clarify that, of course.

No-one is suggesting he not make the tanks - what is being suggested is that he attempt some straightforward and honest time-management (which is a skill, and which not everyone has, but it's a big problem if you're promising to DM and then cancelling, repeatedly), and block out some time to make the tank, and not schedule D&D sessions in that time. I'm not sure that's hard. He might also want to say that his campaign is on long-term hiatus, and be honest and admit that it might never come back on regularly, because he prefers to build tanks.

Sad for the players, perhaps, but they can then re-arrange their affairs appropriately. Basically, he need to let them "off the hook", as it were - stop acting like he's a DM, when he actually wants to be is a tank-builder.

If, on the other hand, he wants to keep the players and run his campaign, he needs to schedule time for that, and keep to that scheduled time, unless there is an emergency (not just a choice to do something different). We all have to make choices with our time. Those choices have consequences, and you cannot expect people to respect you just cancelling pre-booked sessions repeatedly (no matter the notice), just to do something else which you could do at any time. It shows very clearly that you value that hobby more than their company and whilst that's fine, you can't hide from the fact that you're sending that message.


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## Bedrockgames (Jun 10, 2014)

I do not think there is anything wrong with the OP wanting to mix up his schedule and focus on tanks certain weeks, then on gaming in others. But i do feel like his group may need a different person to GM, pr the OP needs players who are more comfortable with the schedule he wants. They could also consider rotating GMs. While it is perfectly reasonable and fair to have other interests and game on a schedule that is convenient for all your hobbies, it is not fair to expect players to wait during the months when you are not able to GM. My suggesting is for you to encourage one of them to GM a different campaign when you're doing the tank thing. See if they are open to rotating. Another option is to game every other week, so you can do your tanks on weekends in between.


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## Nellisir (Jun 10, 2014)

First of all, awesome hobby. And yeah, I mean the building vivariums and suchlike.  Good on you.

Second of all, you need to be honest with yourself and with your friends. It doesn't sound like you're going to be able to juggle both. You MIGHT be able to get by by alternating, but it might just be easier to focus on one at a time.

It's a little unclear if you stopped the game for 3 months, or if you repeatedly cancelled the game over three months. The first is what it is; that's your right. The second is a pain. You get stressed because you're trying to do two things and failing; your friends get stressed because their plans are continually being screwed over.

You have a right to your hobbies, but you have an obligation to everyone else to keep them informed and allow them to make plans without you in a prompt and timely manner.


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## Elf Witch (Jun 13, 2014)

Halivar said:


> Sounds to me like the OP did exactly this. He was upfront; this tank he's building is more important than roleplaying. Life is too short to NOT invest in your true passion. Someone else in the group needs to step up and learn how to DM.




No one is saying don't invest time in your passion. But doing that requires choices and managing your time. He came here asking for advice on how to do both so that is group is not angry with him. That sounds to me that he wants to do both.  

Nobody is telling him he must DM we are saying that when you offer to DM you need to be upfront and honest with your group about what you are doing. The same goes with playing. This is a social hobby and there is a social contract involved when you do something with other people. He owes it to his group to be upfront and honest about how much time he can give to DMing. 
Since we don't know what he told his group I think you are wrong to be judging them as the problem.


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## Nellisir (Jun 13, 2014)

Elf Witch said:


> Nobody is telling him he must DM we are saying that when you offer to DM you need to be upfront and honest with your group about what you are doing. The same goes with playing. This is a social hobby and there is a social contract involved when you do something with other people. He owes it to his group to be upfront and honest about how much time he can give to DMing.




Ayup. I'm dealing with this in my own brand-new gaming group. I've had to step in and take over DMing for a session or two to get things back on track and to keep the group from falling apart immediately after forming.


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## Elf Witch (Jun 13, 2014)

Nellisir said:


> Ayup. I'm dealing with this in my own brand-new gaming group. I've had to step in and take over DMing for a session or two to get things back on track and to keep the group from falling apart immediately after forming.




The hardest thing I had to do was stop DMing for awhile. My health and some other issues were making it impossible for me to take the time to work on my campaign. I knew the players were loving it and they didn't want me to stop but I could sense the unhappiness with many times I was cancelling. So I had an honest talk with them and that was when my roommate stepped up to DM.  

We had a situation several years ago with a DM not telling s that he was getting burnt out he knew we loved the game in the end things went side wise because of it and left some bad feelings. All that could have been avoided by opening his mouth and talking to us.


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## Nellisir (Jun 13, 2014)

Elf Witch said:


> The hardest thing I had to do was stop DMing for awhile. My health and some other issues were making it impossible for me to take the time to work on my campaign. I knew the players were loving it and they didn't want me to stop but I could sense the unhappiness with many times I was cancelling. So I had an honest talk with them and that was when my roommate stepped up to DM.
> 
> We had a situation several years ago with a DM not telling s that he was getting burnt out he knew we loved the game in the end things went side wise because of it and left some bad feelings. All that could have been avoided by opening his mouth and talking to us.



We just started a group and someone else was keen to DM, but after an entire session of character gen, the next session was cancelled (only 1 player available), the next session he failed to find a space to play and so we had to cancel, this session I found a space and but he just assumed we weren't playing for some reason (hadn't read any of the emails the group had exchanged) and had already planned to spend his time packing. Next session he's out of town. So I ran this week and will run next week. He's got us starting with 3rd level 3.5 gestalt characters; I went hardcore OSR - 4 classes, 4 races, no feats, no skills. Had to read the adventure as we went, but it went very well; next week will be smoother since I'll have time to prep.


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