# Are your games dying?



## Creamsteak (Jan 26, 2003)

I know that some of the games I run are pretty dead. First off, Jarval's Mecha Crusade game has recieved 30 posts in 2 months. That's pretty dead to me. Second, my kobold quest adventure (not GaryH's) is pretty dead, because it isn't going the way I want.

What problems cause a game to die? Well, in the case of my koboldquest game, I refuse to update the game till I feel that I have a better understanding of the characters motives. I want to see what they want better, and although I havn't posted this to that game yet (I will, soon) I think it's my fault that I havn't opened the gates to their opinions enough.

In the case of Mechacrusade, it was a grand scheme at first, when Polyhedron came up with it, but I think the concepts within got 'boring' somehow.

So, I know this is an issue around here, what do people think about the dying games, and what can be done to save them? Should they be saved?


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## GWolf (Jan 26, 2003)

I think a dead game, should be well, closed. Once interest is gone, its gone, its really hard to bring it back.

What I think kills a game is lack of posting, lack of interest, ideas seeming good but then getting boring, bad dming so players dont want to post, bad players so dms dont want to post, and jsut bad luck, like having 2 of four players lose pc access, etc.


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## Corlon (Jan 26, 2003)

ask your characters why they aren't posting, if it's holiday/vacation stuff, keep it open, just let it be dead for a while.

But if interest is truly lost, I'll go with GWolf's idea and just shut down the game.


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## garyh (Jan 26, 2003)

I know that in the games I play in, the sure death is when a DM wanders off.  When players wander off, enough can spell death as well.  With players though, some DMs (GruTheWanderer, especially) will recruit replacements.

With my two DMed games, _my_ Koboldquest game is kind of withering because I volunteered to DM something I hadn't thought through.  I don't wanna give up, but I'm not as motivated as I am with, say, my Orange County Eight supers game.

As for how to resolve it, I'd say DM's are the key.  I think it takes a DM running a game they're very interested in to help keep the players motivated as well.  The DM falters, and a game can just fade away.


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 26, 2003)

That's the hard part of running a game is  handling the different posting frequencies and how real life interferes.  Its easier when you're in person and you've committed to the time, but on boards where people come from all different time zones.

Yeah it is up the DM though.

However :squints at Gary and Jemal: it doesn't help when someone is in a kabillion games either

LOL should I dare ask you Gary if you will be in the Wuxia or the InCharacter game now that you have added responsiblities?

EDIT:  The InCharacter game sort of has taken a mind of its own and I barely have to do anything in there.


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 26, 2003)

I just dropped out of alot of games to focus on the good ones. Psionicle, Aftermath and nocturnum. Rests dead.

I'm trying to focus for quality and develloping my chars. Just more fun that way and the more interested people are in a game, the less liekly they are to die. My Nocturnum game is on a role luckily enough and the players there keep focussed.

I'm gratefull for that attention but players who don't post at least onces a day get a warning and a week or soemthing and then I'll have them replaced. I'm not waiting for the game to slow down and die. I take actions. I hda a player replaced lately. Hadn't posted in a week. He slowed down the game and I took over his actions till we had a replacement which we now luckily got. 

Look at Timothy, he starts a million games but all just don't seem to get of the floor. The concepts are nice but they don't get off.


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## Krizzel (Jan 26, 2003)

I think everyone makes good points so far.  Ultimately it is the DM's responsibility to make sure things run smoothly.  Players can't be expected to do things on their own (well, unless you tell them to  ).  

That said, I think sometimes a player can help out a *lot* in jump-starting a game.  The players that help out others making their characters, bump threads (and not just the usual 'bump,' but actually a bump 'in character' as well), or otherwise take charge in the game are great.  Essentially the DM sets the guidelines, but it takes one or more players to really help things move along.

Another thing to think about - with all the games going on around here, there is a relatively small core of DMs.  And these are also the people who are working for the betterment of IC overall (CS and Gary in particular).  If there's some trouble getting games moving, we've got a resource of fellow DMs to find a solution.

For example, with the kobolds, we could always merge them somehow.  I know I for one was very interested in both, but I could only join one at the time.  I think a couple people play in both, and Gary DMs one and plays the other.  The concepts are a little exclusive to each other, but there might be some way to at least have the games help each other if not merge.


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## Krizzel (Jan 26, 2003)

On players who don't post, I'll usually just write in some reasonable actions for them and move the game along.  Metal Joe is my first game to run and I'm still trying to find the right rhythm, but it's getting there.  It would take quite a bit of annoyance for me to actually boot someone - but that could be a good or a bad thing depending on how you look at it.

I should also mention that Mecha Crusade was actually the game that got me to delurk in anticipation of joining it - but I never did   I think it was full at the time.  I wonder why it didn't really get off the ground.  Still seems like a cool idea to me.


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## Timothy (Jan 26, 2003)

Well, TFO, after thinking what you said through again, I do agree with you.

The reason I start so many games is that I sometimes can be on the boards for hours straight, and it becomes boring, so I think to myself, I have enough time, I can make anotehr game. But I do not have the time to be on the baords for hours and hours, although I'm on average 2 hours or more per day on the boards.

After posting this, I have decided to focus more on DMing, and less on playing, so I'll make a list of games that I want to continue and say no to the others.

Games going dead should be saved exept if the not posting comes from not meing interest, but a DM can try get these games more interesting.


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 26, 2003)

Yeah when I started the DMing I realized that alot of players sort of wait for things to happen to them instead of going out and trying out things.  Of course there are the players that take the initiative, but then there are those who are happy to just coast along for the ride.

The trick is to find a game balance where you're not always shoving them along (the people who don't want to be shoved along) and yet giving a good push to those people who do want to be pushed along.

Of course I have yet to find this balance!


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## garyh (Jan 26, 2003)

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *However :squints at Gary and Jemal: it doesn't help when someone is in a kabillion games either
> 
> LOL should I dare ask you Gary if you will be in the Wuxia or the InCharacter game now that you have added responsiblities?
> 
> EDIT:  The InCharacter game sort of has taken a mind of its own and I barely have to do anything in there. *




I actually have come to t hat conclusion myslf, Kit.  I realized my playing was suffering as I've been in so many games, and I'm actually cutting back.  I'm afraid I won't be joining the IC or Wuxia games, not that you or the players aren't cool, but that I don't think I could pull my weight.  In fact, I'm not being as active as I could on some of my almost-dead games because I in some ways want to narrow my focus.

Until some of my games "officially" die, I'm going to be holding back on joining any more (save for Windy City Mutants).  I'll play that hot sohei on day, though!


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 26, 2003)

garyh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I actually have come to t hat conclusion myslf, Kit.  I realized my playing was suffering as I've been in so many games, and I'm actually cutting back.  I'm afraid I won't be joining the IC or Wuxia games, not that you or the players aren't cool, but that I don't think I could pull my weight.  In fact, I'm not being as active as I could on some of my almost-dead games because I in some ways want to narrow my focus.
> 
> Until some of my games "officially" die, I'm going to be holding back on joining any more (save for Windy City Mutants).  I'll play that hot sohei on day, though!  *




I completely understand and I figured that you were starting to get pressed.  You know you are always welcome in either of the games.



I need to get control of my wayward self as well before I hit the same limits you and Jemal are reaching.

Not to mention!  School started and HOMEWORK!


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## garyh (Jan 26, 2003)

KitanaVorr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I completely understand and I figured that you were starting to get pressed.  You know you are always welcome in either of the games.
> 
> ...




Thanks, Kit.  And school starts for me tomorrow, so that's a factor in _my_ decision too.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 26, 2003)

Great f-ing post, cs.

I was actually close to posting something similar to this, but from a player's perspective.

I have seen the In Character forum go thru a lot of evolution, and it seems that we are now in the Quantity phase over Quality.
The amount of agmes that have sprung up over the last 3 months is amazing.
However, how many games have what it takes to 'make it'?
And what characteristics are shared of games that "make it" the long haul?

I'll attempt to share my thoughts:
(firstly, I'm not saying all games need to last to make them worthwhile. Some games, even though they die, are worthwhile expenditures of time and effort)

Now, in my experience it is the DM that is most in control of whether the game lasts.
I would imagine that DM-ing a PbP adventure is unlike what most DM's would expect at the beginning.
It requires a different level of written communication than many people possess, and a dedication to see things thru on an anonymous, un-connected medium such as the internet.

Add in RL difficulties which arise (loss of intenret access, schedule contraints, etc), and the chances of a DM being able to complete a PbP to conclusion are slim.

Here's an open question to all posters:
What PbP games HAVE been completed?
I actually only know of one - The Original - the Non-Iconics Game that has completed their adventure to fruition.
I'd like to think that my dogged deterination and player-involvement style of posting might have contributed to it not dying, but the other players are a great group of veteran gamers that made it a priority to stay with it, and the real reason is Heavy G : A DM that never faltered, never let the game get lower a "warm simmer" of interest.

IMO, once a game loses steam completely, and is left for ANY significant amount of time, the game is doomed. It's just too hard getting the ball rolling up that big hill of player participation and interest again.

Similarly, the most successful games that I've seen have been ones that had a fairly fast recruitment time, and went right into adventuring, getting the majority of introductions going rapidly, so that by a month in, many of the players and main story are inplace (striking while the iron's hot, so to speak) before the inevitable slow-downs a game WILL have start to occur.

What other games have you guys been in that haeve not been abandoned?
What games do you think WILL eventually finish?
What do you think are the elements that contribute to a successful, long-term PbP game?

For my part, it is my personal approach that the bane of PbP games is apathy.
Non-interest will kill a game much quicker than in-fighting or even player or DM squabbles.
Non-participation is the ultimate sin in PbP gaming, to me.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 26, 2003)

cs - interesting that you didn't include the Heroes of the Worlds thread in the "dying" category.
Isn't that pretty much dead in the water? that cause is DM non-involvement, right?

Then there's some other ones I'm in I can comment on:
your great (IMO) LightHearted Hack n Slash game is unique, in that you started it with the structure that can support a long haul.
As long as you have  a few participants that are dedicated, I think that it can last a while, even though from the recent posting amounts, it might seem in danger.

Against the Storm is unique : it's the one PbP I've been in that has not stalled due to DM disinterest, but player disinterest.
While DM_Matt alienated some players (myself included), I think he's done just about everything he can to revive the game, and his effort is admirable, including recruiting others to fill some roleplaying holes. Hopefully that will revive the game.

Speaking of reviving, the Iconics Thread apparently cannot be resurrected from Piratecat's 2 stoppages. 
This 3rd stoppage will probably put a nail in it's Legendary and Infuential coffin, despite GnomeWork's efforts.

New York by Night is in the midst of having the AFAIK unprecedented happen: having another DM fill in to continue the game. That is amazing, and hopefully will work.

What are the statuses of other PbP games? 
I've always wished I had enough time to keep up with all the games - maybe those in them can summarize what's happened over the months in them (maybe a seperate thread idea?).
At least post here whether they are active or not, and if not, why did they end? Did any end for any reason other than DM?


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## Krizzel (Jan 26, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> What are the statuses of other PbP games?
> I've always wished I had enough time to keep up with all the games - maybe those in them can summarize what's happened over the months in them (maybe a seperate thread idea?).
> At least post here whether they are active or not, and if not, why did they end? Did any end for any reason other than DM? *




Hmm...should we have an IC-forum newsletter?


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 26, 2003)

Well

I'll give you the status of The InCharacter Character game and that it is totally boggling my mind.  I only started it a week ago, it is now nearly up to 200 posts...it has had over 80 posts today alone since I last checked it yesterday (it was 110)...what the heck?  Is this normal?

I hope this is a good trend for it, and that people still want to join the game (open membership--unlimited players) means that it is a good thing.  So I'm hoping this is one of those games that will find fruition to a good ending.


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## Janos Audron (Jan 26, 2003)

you should've seen the 3rd IR Kitana. 200+ posts when you wake up in the morning. The horror of having to read all of them just to know what's going on...


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## Shalimar (Jan 26, 2003)

So far Dave Rothgery's WOT game is the only one I personally know of as having lasted.  Its been going for roughly a year so far, with us moving onto a private MSN community board when Enworld went through its server problems. 

I agree: In character games seem to be going through their expansion cycle and right on into the contraction as reality sets in and those who have over-booked feel the pressure.  Some people seem to be acting very responsible about it, limiting themselves to what they can handle, others overestimate their time and see it as a race to be in the most games.  I don't quite understand the mentality.  The idea being quantity over quality.  I would rather a person be in just one or two games and produce meaningful posts then spout off one liners in ten or twenty.  Those one liners take away from the games. 

From my poll on player size of games most people seem to want 6 people in their games.  I want fewer, but better posters.  If I can only have 3 who aren't over booked then it is preferable to 6 that are.  To fix this I see the Dms needing to do more work, and that isn't fair to them at all.  They need to be more selective of who they allow in.  Both in post quality of potential players, and also of how many games they are already in as an indicator of how much time they can devote to the game.  I think it is the height of rudeness to short change a game, any game at all, be it a serious game or a silly one.  This is what we all have decided to do with our free time.  Shortchanging a game is not just affecting the game for you, it can effectively ruin the game for other people as well, people who are trying their best.  Again, I am not trying to say that everyone who is in a lot of games is doing this, some are very good at knowing their limits, like Garyh and Kitana, but others are not, and that is what the problem is.

I am not trying to sound angry here, this is just my opinion without any sugar-coating.  I think that we as gamers have to understand this is not just our own time we are dealing with, that others are investing their's as well.  We must be mindfull of that and be very conscientous.


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## Sixchan (Jan 26, 2003)

The In Character game is unique in that since we're roleplaying ourselves, the posts have a more 'Conversation' feel to them, with short one liners, jokes, comments and questions rather than the traditional 'Roleplaying'.  So we post a lot more.


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## Krizzel (Jan 26, 2003)

You make some good points Shalimar, and I am mostly in agreement.

I think part of the thing that makes people join/start so many games is what Timothy describes.  With the pace as slow as it is, people tend to jump into more and more games to compensate.  Somewhere a line is crossed that is probably different for different people.

I am probably playing in 1 or 2 many at this point, but I expect a couple of them will probably die off.  DMing is a little different - I generally struggle to keep up during the character creation and setup phases, but once I get the PCs started down the path, I've found I'm generally waiting for them now instead of the other way around.

I've also found that my posts, either as DM or player, tend to reflect the length of the other players.  That is, if I start off making long posts, but no one else is (or they aren't doing it very often), my posts will begin to shrink.

Some games can survive with short posts (the IC game being the one I'm thinking of) - most cannot.  A lot of games also take some time to settle into a good rhythm.

Is there a good solution?  I'm not sure, other than if everybody tries to make all the games better.  I don't like having to kick people out of my games, but I'm sure it'll come to that point sometime, for whatever reason.


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## Creamsteak (Jan 26, 2003)

I did some quoting and answering here, based entirely on my humble opinions. I think I'm going to cull my own games, and try and make some general fixes. Mecha Crusade, I'm thinking this one will be fixed by merging both games, and allowing Jarval to be a player. I'm going to give another Kickup to LHHS by adding one or two players (by invite) and dropping the deadweight. I may try and save the IRR, we are just now beginning turn 2, and if the game isn't saved now -it's doomed. My koboldquest game is probably going to be closed, or conjoined to GaryH's. I'm going to start Epic, and try really hard to figure out where it's headed.



			
				Gwolf[/i][b]
I think a dead game said:
			
		

> *Yeah when I started the DMing I realized that alot of players sort of wait for things to happen to them instead of going out and trying out things.  Of course there are the players that take the initiative, but then there are those who are happy to just coast along for the ride.*



There's a great deal of wisdom to be found from the solution to this problem. See, this is the problem with many games of any kind. I consider myself a great player, had the game runner been more efficient, I would have competed for Iron PC. That's my speciality, being a super-motivational player. One point of advice that some people might be able to take from me, 'make stuff up as you go along.' In Gnomeworks Psionicle, I have consistently added an additional character element (whether history, quirks, or memories) that contribute to my characters development. In Jemal's Intrigue in Candara game, I've taken it upon myself to just blast out with strange gibberings about unfamiliar evils and all that crazy stuff-but I always leave everything open to 'interpretation' on the DMs part. That way, they surprise me and I surprise them.



> *The trick is to find a game balance where you're not always shoving them along (the people who don't want to be shoved along) and yet giving a good push to those people who do want to be pushed along.*



Yep, most definitely.

*



			Of course I have yet to find this balance!
		
Click to expand...


*Well, I've found it in a couple games, but I don't know how to 'create' it. If I ever learn, that would be great.



> _Originally posted by Reapersaurus_*
> However, how many games have what it takes to 'make it'?
> And what characteristics are shared of games that "make it" the long haul?*



*
Let's see. First off, as you stated later in your post, it has a lot to do with getting the introduction over with, without making it seem pointless. Saying, "you all are together in a bar" isn't the solution, the solution is to make sure you introduce action before you start the lul. For instance, in the LHHS, I did start you all off in a Bar. Then I sat there, and wrote down about 100 feeder leads. Different things I used to test 'what do these characters want to do? What motivates the entire group?' and I did all of it through In Character actions. It worked, and it gave me plenty of ammunition to put to use.




Now, in my experience it is the DM that is most in control of whether the game lasts.
I would imagine that DM-ing a PbP adventure is unlike what most DM's would expect at the beginning.
It requires a different level of written communication than many people possess, and a dedication to see things thru on an anonymous, un-connected medium such as the internet.

Click to expand...


 Alright, I don't know what you think of it, but I've found that it's easier to recognize a character as being different from a player -online. Because the characters are the only things I see. It's easier for me to associate Deedlit with Deedlit, and not Deedlit's player. It's easier for me to associate Dalamar with Krindor, or Jarval with Jannsen than it would be in a real life game.




What PbP games HAVE been completed?
I actually only know of one - The Original - the Non-Iconics Game that has completed their adventure to fruition.

Click to expand...


Yep, that's the only one. Also note, there's never been a Total Party Kill to my knowledge, and trust me when I say that I've looked.




Similarly, the most successful games that I've seen have been ones that had a fairly fast recruitment time, and went right into adventuring, getting the majority of introductions going rapidly, so that by a month in, many of the players and main story are inplace (striking while the iron's hot, so to speak) before the inevitable slow-downs a game WILL have start to occur.

Click to expand...


I have to agree with you here. And then there are problems with games like Epic, where it takes many people an exceptional amount of time to get ready. Especially the DM. It's just that way. Of course, my solution for Epic is to cater to each player seperately. Every player's going to act independantly. The more you post, the more thourough you are, and honestly 'the more entertaining to the DM you are' the more likely you are going to come up on top. Whether they impress me with RP values, humor, or persistance, that's going to be the guy to win. Players that don't post for a week are going to be left behind, I'm sorry, but It's just the style of that particular game.




What other games have you guys been in that haeve not been abandoned?
What games do you think WILL eventually finish?
What do you think are the elements that contribute to a successful, long-term PbP game?

For my part, it is my personal approach that the bane of PbP games is apathy.
Non-interest will kill a game much quicker than in-fighting or even player or DM squabbles.
Non-participation is the ultimate sin in PbP gaming, to me.

Click to expand...


Psionicle, LHHS, Academy of Drell... not many. Some games are going to last, I think, like Intrigue in Candara (so long as everyone else is as interested in going to the next place, like me), and Emerald's game looks good. In both instances, it can be attributed a bit to the players motivation. Jemal has let Intrigue slip back a page on multiple instances, but one of them was seriously my fault (bad interpretation or writing on my part), and I think the game is still doing alright.

Now, from what some players (not characters mind you, just players) have said to me, it appears that LHHS will end somewhere near the Trollforge, in about a year. I'm going to add some new blood (Sollir joined, but I think he's in a lull right now) to the game to increase the participation. Novyet posted a character and never played, which is important to note. I figure the LHHS will finish though.
Now, Psionicle will finish as well. We are about half way there, after a year and more of playing. It will take another year, but the game WILL finish. Not many games will, in this medium.




cs - interesting that you didn't include the Heroes of the Worlds thread in the "dying" category.
Isn't that pretty much dead in the water? that cause is DM non-involvement, right?

Click to expand...


I think Kal is bored right now. Same for Sollir. If, and when, they come back, Heroes of the World should be stopped, and probably Sollir's game, but they could still be active players. I think Deedlit is afraid to let it die, but I'm fine with it dying. It wasn't that long ago that I stated that I was going to drop out of the game to focus on others. I completely forgot about mentioning it, that's how dead it is.




Then there's some other ones I'm in I can comment on:
your great (IMO) LightHearted Hack n Slash game is unique, in that you started it with the structure that can support a long haul.
As long as you have a few participants that are dedicated, I think that it can last a while, even though from the recent posting amounts, it might seem in danger.

Click to expand...


Thanx reaper. Yeah, I think structures need shifting in some games. Basically, I think it works best when you either have a solid motivation from everyone, or a structure that caters to the individual. LHHS, and maybe if it has some activity, Epic, should do alright since they allow a disinterested player to be cut without losing anything.




What are the statuses of other PbP games? 
I've always wished I had enough time to keep up with all the games - maybe those in them can summarize what's happened over the months in them (maybe a seperate thread idea?).
At least post here whether they are active or not, and if not, why did they end? Did any end for any reason other than DM?

Click to expand...



Well, I think I've stated my opinions on these matters in the above.*


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## Jarval (Jan 26, 2003)

Very interesting idea for a thread CS.

 I have to admit, I think my Mecha Crusade game suffered from some badly timed absences on my part.  I've had to be AFK for several days at a time over the last few weeks, and I've not pushed it forwards as much as I could have done 

 My Of Sound Mind game, while perhaps not the most fast paced game around, seems to be pretty stable.  I've only lost one player, and I'm hoping I may be able to bring them back in.


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## Jarval (Jan 26, 2003)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *I did some quoting and answering here, based entirely on my humble opinions. I think I'm going to cull my own games, and try and make some general fixes. Mecha Crusade, I'm thinking this one will be fixed by merging both games, and allowing Jarval to be a player.*




Hmm, could work.  I have to say, you might make a better DM for the Mecha Crusade game, as you seem to have a better knowledge of the genre than me.


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 27, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Sixchan _*The In Character game is unique in that since we're roleplaying ourselves, the posts have a more 'Conversation' feel to them, with short one liners, jokes, comments and questions rather than the traditional 'Roleplaying'.  So we post a lot more. *




Hehe I don't mind all the posting, I was just surprised.   I will honestly say that I thought the IC game would fail when I first started it because the interest didn't seem so high during character creation but I went ahead with it because there was a core group of people that really liked it and I personally liked the idea lot.  It falls completely within my style.

I was afraid it would be too weird for people, but apparently, they like weird!  And trying to figure out what I'll do to them next, hehe...

So all in all yay and thanks to my players!


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## GruTheWanderer (Jan 27, 2003)

I picked up a dying WOT game when ToddSchumacher left.  But since they had just started, I restarted the plot in another time and place.

I came close to a TPK in If Thoughts Could Kill, when one character reminded me of his Necklace of Missles after failing a save to a fireball.

Elven Navy Delta Squad finished the first Spelljammer adventure I wrote, which is a victory of sorts.  We lost two of five players along the way.

There's definitely a rhythm to games, especially around weekends and holidays.  I'm flexible with my gamers as long as they are flexible with me.


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## Uriel (Jan 27, 2003)

I did suffer from 'I must join' fever for a few weeks ( OK, I still do sign for games occassionally), but I find myself wanting to bow out of a few games at this point.
As far as games I run, I had intended to run 3-4 Under a Vaulted Sky games, weaving them all together as a set-up for a bigger Political game revolving around Drow Houses. While I still plan on doing this, I am going to wait a bit on it.

My 'the Dungeon: Out of Whistle' was sort of a fluke idea, though it seems to be getting off of the ground at a decent clip.
One thought that I had was to ask a few other PbPers if they had an interest in running games in the same setting, since it is pretty much an Infinite World Setting.

My Quest for the Lady game was something I thought up at 5am or so...and it will be a wierd one to say the least.

One thing I have done in the 2 latter games is limit the number of players. 4 in each, to be precise. I think that this helps (it is helping quite a bit in Dungeon:OoW).I was lucky in the UaVS game in getting a group that posts pretty regularly (Garyh needs to post more often, but until Cloning gets to be a stable science, he is just overtaxed...).

Anyways, just my 2 Coppers worth.


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## garyh (Jan 27, 2003)

Uriel_fire_of_Heaven said:
			
		

> *(Garyh needs to post more often, but until Cloning gets to be a stable science, he is just overtaxed...).*




Sorry about that!     Since I'm playing muscle it's easy to forget to post in non-combat situations with everything else I've got going, and I'm also not quite sure how to get the hobgoblin into all the drow intrigue.  But all that's a topic for the UaVS OOC thread.


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## Uriel (Jan 27, 2003)

'But all that's a topic for the UaVS OOC thread...
COOL!!! I got Garyh's official Moderator Smack-Down! YES!!!

(salutes) 'Right you are Garyh' 
Perhaps I'll liven that one up, to get all of you folks thoughts, good idea, Garyh.


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## garyh (Jan 27, 2003)

Uriel_fire_of_Heaven said:
			
		

> *'But all that's a topic for the UaVS OOC thread...
> COOL!!! I got Garyh's official Moderator Smack-Down! YES!!!
> 
> (salutes) 'Right you are Garyh'
> Perhaps I'll liven that one up, to get all of you folks thoughts, good idea, Garyh. *




It's also the first Mod-ish thing I've done besides moving some threads.    However, you bring up a good idea, Uriel:

If a game or even just a player or two in the game is lagging, asking what players think of the game is a good way to see what the the players are thinking.  If I'd have thought of it, I could have just brought that up in the appropriate OOC thread to begin with.

So, if you're a player, don't be afraid to speak up POLITELY with your thoughts, observations, or requests for a game in the OOC thread.

And, if you're a DM, feel free to solicit imput in the OOC thread as well.  Players like it when they think you're paying attention to them.


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## The Forsaken One (Jan 27, 2003)

Well I'm quite cinvinced my game is there to last. It'll take about 2 years maybe half a year more and I suppose we;ll see some casting changes as they always happen but I think the game will make it. We've got great dedication and char devellopment that I've missed in the forum games for a while in most games. ShaperMC even whipped up a website to where he uploaded all materials, houserules and char sheets!


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## Krug (Jan 27, 2003)

Well I'm in 4-5 games and there's only one game that's lasted a while; Feint Whispers. Credits to the DM who has kept us on our toes. 

I think the best thing might be to go for smaller adventures, and no dungeon crawls. Waste of time. And players should go for diversity rather than quantity. If you feel you're playing the same character in two games, time to forget one of 'em.


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## Pbartender (Jan 29, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> What PbP games HAVE been completed?*




The *STAR WARS ICONIC CHARACTERS* have just completed their first adventure...  Albeit, the game slowed down a lot at some points, and the players and characters at the end of the adventure aren't necessarily the same as those that began it.

I try to give all the players a chance to post before I move the game along.  Even so, sometimes a GM has to push on ahead, or give the players a little prodding (Like giant snakes, a wounded comrade, or native bird-men).

Hey SWICs, any comments, complaints or suggestions for the next adventure?  I think we've got slow, but steady, pace in the game, but personally I'd like to see it pick up a little.


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## Serpenteye (Jan 29, 2003)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> *I just dropped out of alot of games to focus on the good ones. Psionicle, Aftermath and nocturnum. Rests dead.
> *




You dropped out of the IRR?  It's been going from dead to alive to dead again repeatedly for half a year but there's still some hope... It can still be reanimated. So come back, Forsaken One, to the Zombie IR. Slow, shambling, but not without a certain charm.


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## Jemal (Jan 29, 2003)

> _Shalimar_
> I am not trying to say that everyone who is in a lot of games is doing this, some are very good at knowing their limits, like Garyh and Kitana, but others are not, and that is what the problem is.



*whistles inocently* I don't know what you're talking about....

Allright, I admit it.. I'm one of the 'bad' ones around here that joins every game on the forum and DMs multiple games.  Fortunately all the games I DM (Intrigue in Candara, Beta, Starwars: Imps/Republic, and The Hellmouth) are keeping afloat more or less.  I've also got 2 new games starting (The Arena and Strane New World) which hopefully will hold up, as well.
True, I do sometimes neglect posting to my games, but my lovely players will give me a little smack to get me going again.  It's not being 'over my limit' that does it to me, it's the fact that I'm lazy and love to procrastinate. 

Anyways I think the best way to keep it from happening is if you're Playing in a game that seems to be 'on the verge', just post a bump asking where everyone is, or restating a question your character asked that hasn't been answered, Etc.  Or if you're the DM, post something like "You've got until this time to post, then I'm auto-piloting anyone that hasn't posted"

Remember that games go through loops.. People seem to all be on very similar schedules, they'll all have a lot of free time for a week or so, during which the posting is phenomenal, and then something will happen (Test week, Business crisis, etc) and you'll be lucking if they post 1/week during that time.  Just have faith and try to pick up the slack.



> _Creamsteak_
> In Jemal's Intrigue in Candara game, I've taken it upon myself to just blast out with strange gibberings about unfamiliar evils and all that crazy stuff-but I always leave everything open to 'interpretation' on the DMs part. That way, they surprise me and I surprise them.




Actually, in that particular game the 'eldritter' has become a main part of the game... something I'ld never heard of until the pcs started getting posted, and now it's in control of an entire country, and the PCs are on their way to stop it before it destroys their country.

The thing is, you see.. I LOVE IT When PCs do things that actually have an affect on the world, other than just responding to what happens.  I try to do that a bit when i'm playing, but unfortunately some DMs don't like it, and most (Myself included) have a line they don't want the players to cross.. the problem with that is that the line's imposible to see until after you've crossed it.



> _Creamsteak_
> Also note, there's never been a Total Party Kill to my knowledge, and trust me when I say that I've looked.




There's a very good reason for that - It would end the game, so if it WOULD happen the DMs likely fudge it to keep the game going.
I had it happen in my Starwars(Republic) game.  Their ship was down to about 10 HP and got critically hit by 2 turbolasers (BOTH got crits, 1 for max damage!)
So it was either "Game Over" or "Fudge".
needless to say, I love chocolate and hate games ending like that, so the choice was easy.

I'ld also like to point out that most RPGs don't 'end'.  That's why I like it so much, it's a game where you don't go "OK, that's the end of the game, tada!".  I much prefer the playing of a game to the small amount of satisfaction you get from finishing it.  Therefore unless specifically stated otherwise, all of my games are open-ended until the PCs die or retire.



> _Creamsteak_
> I think, like Intrigue in Candara (so long as everyone else is as interested in going to the next place, like me). It can be attributed a bit to the players motivation. Jemal has let Intrigue slip back a page on multiple instances, but one of them was seriously my fault (bad interpretation or writing on my part), and I think the game is still doing alright.




Yes, I unfortunately do that with most of my games every once in a while.  I seriously try to keep up but sometimes I'm just strapped for ideas, and then there's my legendary procrastinating.  Like I've said before, though.. A bump or a smack to the head is usually all I need to get something back.

And thanks for the vote of confidence, CS - I think Intrigue was the first one I started here, so if it keeps going for a fair while I'll see that as a major victory.  (Actually my first game I ever DM'd IRL went for several years (Both for the characters and for the players... Good omen?)

I think some of the games I'm in/DMing that have the most potential to go the distance:
-CoC: Nocturnum (awesome char. development, good story, lotsa suspense.. Just hope we survive this werewolf thing.)
-Intrigue In Candara (As Gary said, the players are motivated, and It's one of the few things I actually did some thinknig for before posting it (Most of my games I just improvise, no planning more than the next few incidents...)
-Shades of Netheril (We've genuinely been going fairly strongly the whole time.. I don't think we've needed a bump yet, but I could be wrong.  ALso, it's the first game I joined on PbP.. Hmm, again with my 'first' things.. Another good omen?)
-In Character (until we loose interest in ourselves we should be good... Now I just gotta figure out how to use that Wand on Hanh so we can see her in onea them outfits...  )
-Battle for the Four Islands (seems to be doing ok, but it's still fairly new.. only time will tell)
-Beta IC (I have the world detailed very well due to years of playing and developing it with my IRL group, and I'm dedicated to this one at least until epic lvl if the players wanna go there.)

I hope most of the games make it, but these are the ones I have the most faith in right now.

Well I guess that's my spiel... Wonder if any of you will read it all?   ah, no I don't gotta worry about that here.. half of you'll be so bored you'll read it just for something to do (That's how I ended up on this thread. *L*)


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## Creamsteak (Jan 29, 2003)

Your still in too many games, Jemal. Too many.


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## Shalimar (Jan 29, 2003)

> I hope most of the games make it, but these are the ones I have the most faith in right now.




Does this mean you have no faith in Hellmouth?  And how about Windy city mutants?
I think your stretching yourself thin, way too thin.  I think you might be able to keep up for a while, but eventually it'll get to be a hastle and you'll drop all of them at once.  Thats why I limit myself to 6 total, and thats still a lot.


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 30, 2003)

> _Originally posted by Jemal _*True, I do sometimes neglect posting to my games, but my lovely players will give me a little smack to get me going again.  It's not being 'over my limit' that does it to me, it's the fact that I'm lazy and love to procrastinate. *



You mean I have to send you an email every time you start slacking off?! ;p You'll get one from me every day at that rate.


> _Originally posted by Jemal _*The thing is, you see.. I LOVE IT When PCs do things that actually have an affect on the world, other than just responding to what happens.*



LOL I like that too, now if only I can get my PC's to do something other than just react....


> _Originally posted by Jemal _*-In Character (until we loose interest in ourselves we should be good... Now I just gotta figure out how to use that Wand on Hanh so we can see her in onea them outfits...  )
> *



;p  I think I responded to this in the IC game...     Oh and how is that going? I'd like some feedback.  I don't know if its getting weird, or maybe I should slow down and let you guys just talk.  LOL there seems to be a great love of talking going on.


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## Uriel (Jan 30, 2003)

Oh Jemal...ye of little Faith.
Just wait until Gentaria Ferach makes it to Level 15..THEN you will see about True Game Longevity.
If you can keep from being swallowed by any more Behirs...


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## Jemal (Jan 30, 2003)

CS+Shal - I'll take care of myself, don't worry about that stuff.

Shal+Uriel - Don't get me wrong, I like all the games I'm in (Otherwise I wouldn't be in them), and want them all to continue.  It's just that I picked the 6 I think are most likely to pull an energizer bunny out of their hats. 

Uriel - You're mean.    But by the time we get there I'm planning on allready being the matron of the first house.. and a certin male will be in my dungeons to be tortured relentlessly every day for a thousand years... yes...*Snaps out of drow persona*  Anyways. aw, eat me (Wait you allready did that....) 

Kit - It's going great.  On the one hand I like talking (NO! Really?).  ON the other hand, I like the fast pace.  I'ld say just slow it down a little between encounters with strange things, and give us more time (But not too much) to react to said things before they dissapear/run-away/zap curran and decide to become Marios familiar..  Just make it unrealistically realistic.


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## Uriel (Jan 30, 2003)

Jemal, I am not mean  It's not my fault you charged an enraged Behir and got eaten...
BTW, we are waiting for you to Post so that I can get back to eating..er, I mean making sure you make it to the Title of Duchess Ferach (I'm sure Kitana is OK with that).

On-Topic: Speaking of keeping games alive, and regarding the above mentioned game in particular.
I think that it is very important for the group to have a definate cohesion prior to the game starting. The characters in my UaVS game were all pregenerated (moans from the audience), but as we all know from Game Conventions, these can be some really fun ones to play. The group is a scheming, backstabbing, sneaky email proliferating bunch of Blackhearts...and I feel a tear welling up now in pride at the players Wickedness...Everyone seems to be having fun with that, although a couple of the characters are pretty much combat machines and not  Devious Courtiers.I created each one with the result that I was jealous that I didn't get to play them myself. I'm thinking of running That adventure using those characters at a Con in a few weeks.
Regarding Longevity:Jemal, I wasn't offended. I see games fall by the wayside here all of the time, and I'm fairly new. The UaVS game will be completed, primarily because it is designed as a 'One Shot'. A smaller piece of a larger pie, so to speak. I will happily run more adventures for those characters, although, I seriously doubt that (a) they will want to adventure together if they aren't forced to and (b) they will all survive.


Pros and Cons of PbP as I see them.

I have played in games (PbP and real life) where each person just made a character and had no tie-in to anyone else. These games, almost without exception,suffer from that deficit.
PbP games suffer on a few fronts by design. The tactile aspect, rolling the dice, cracking jokes to your buddies,ordering pizza, using miniatures (I have over 5,000, and I like using them, battle mats, scenery etc...), the pace.
However, R-L games suffer as well, in that folks are often too embarrassed to 'do a voice' or use grandiose language appropriate to their character.
Who wants to be laughed at by your buddies when your Paladin finds his True Love and recites a Poem to her? Not me...
PbP also lets those of us with a flair for the descriptive go a bit wild. Too many times in RPGs do we find ourselves weaving a tale, describing the mood of the Peasants in the Town,the still of the wood after a Dragon's attack, etc...to have some knucklehead (friend though he be) say 'Yeah,yeah,dude...get to the good stuff, I made a Spot of 23, what do I see?'
it is far easier to read through a block of text at your own leisure and respond than to sit at a table listening to a windbag (Mocks descriptive DMs here, see, I'm neutral  ).

Just a few observations.

Anal Spelling Edit.


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## Vargo (Jan 30, 2003)

Y'know, I've tried three seperate games, and tried to stick around for all of them.  Two have died, and one is kind of hovering in between death and life, with the DM trying hard to resuscitate it - "From Citadel to Bastion" - and I'd *LOVE* to get a chance to play in one of these things that lasts longer than a month.

*FUME*

I'm a consistent player, I post regularly, I try, and I'd like a game where everybody else does the same.

If anybody has a game where one player has stopped showing up, and they want another player, let me know.  I'll pop in.


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## KitanaVorr (Jan 31, 2003)

Vargo said:
			
		

> *Y'know, I've tried three seperate games, and tried to stick around for all of them.  Two have died, and one is kind of hovering in between death and life, with the DM trying hard to resuscitate it - "From Citadel to Bastion" - and I'd *LOVE* to get a chance to play in one of these things that lasts longer than a month.
> 
> *FUME*
> 
> ...




I've been kind of lucky with the games where I DM.  I state from the beginning what I expect from them and they've delivered very nicely.  Just look around and find out who the good posters are and watch for games they're in.


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## Tokiwong (Jan 31, 2003)

Krug said:
			
		

> *Well I'm in 4-5 games and there's only one game that's lasted a while; Feint Whispers. Credits to the DM who has kept us on our toes.
> 
> I think the best thing might be to go for smaller adventures, and no dungeon crawls. Waste of time. And players should go for diversity rather than quantity. If you feel you're playing the same character in two games, time to forget one of 'em. *




Yeah I have to give it up to Feint Whispers, the DM is doing an awesome job, really awesome, a good player too, ran in an FR game I ran, the bad-ass wizard Xenon, remember that Carl?

Anyways, I agree with much that has been said, and I hope to have my game stick around for  awhile, we need some Rokugan love on the boards.


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## jasamcarl (Jan 31, 2003)

Tokiwong said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yeah I have to give it up to Feint Whispers, the DM is doing an awesome job, really awesome, a good player too, ran in an FR game I ran, the bad-ass wizard Xenon, remember that Carl?
> 
> Anyways, I agree with much that has been said, and I hope to have my game stick around for  awhile, we need some Rokugan love on the boards. *




And props to you Toki for that excellent campaign. It will hold a place for me, being my first and all. I learned a lot about being a DM from that campaign. And DMing has taught me alot about being a better player.


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## reapersaurus (Feb 1, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> *I think it is the height of rudeness to short change a game, any game at all, be it a serious game or a silly one.  This is what we all have decided to do with our free time.  Shortchanging a game is not just affecting the game for you, it can effectively ruin the game for other people as well, people who are trying their best.  *



It took me awhile to get to post, but I just wanted to say:
Straight up, that is exactly how I feel as well, Shalimar.

I take the "covenant of gaming" (whatever that is) fairly serious, and consider it a commitment, and a promise that you will uphold your end of that commitment.

From what I've experienced, many people don't approach gaming like that. Maybe it's an age thing somewhat, but more likely just a personailty thing.
I guess that's why it burns me so much when the _DM_ himself backs out of a game, citing lack of time/interest.

Didn't they think about that commitment in the beginning?
I have asked pointed questions of many DM's in their recruitment threads to try and impress on them the magnitude of what they are proposing to play. Some seem to say "Let's start a game" without thinking thru the implications.

For this reason, I know think there should be a warning on the FAQ for players: DON'T spend too much personal time in creating your PC and customizing it for a PbP game unless you're darned sure that that DM is serious enough to come through.
If we calculated the hundreds (probably thousands) of player-hours that DM's who back out of PbP games cost them, perhaps the slavish devotion to DM's this board typically has might be lessened healthily.

[rant-ish] My personal opinion about DM's is that they are just more motivated players who choose to have more control over the game - they're not gods, the way most people react to them.
They aren't even usually objective, since they have so much to keep in mind, they usually lack the distance re: their world that's necessary to see it from the players' perspective. [/rant]


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## DM_Matt (Feb 2, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> Against the Storm is unique : it's the one PbP I've been in that has not stalled due to DM disinterest, but player disinterest.
> While DM_Matt alienated some players (myself included), I think he's done just about everything he can to revive the game, and his effort is admirable, including recruiting others to fill some roleplaying holes. Hopefully that will revive the game.
> *




Thx for the encouragement.  Its looking like this one might last a bit.

As far as what I've learned:
1.  (least useful to others) I found that I needed to tweak my style a bit and move more towards tactical as-if-there-were-miniatures combat methods.  More holistic and non-specific methods do not work in games where the DM and players do not know eachother well and thus little trust has been built up beforehand.  Unfortunately, I learned to PBP DM from a guy who took a preexisting game online due to sceduling conflicts, where it fourished.  It took me a bit to move away from that.

The map use in the new players thread was a success.  I used Photoshop (in many ways vector apps would be better, but ps is what I know best) to make a background, and I put all the characters/NPCs as text on their own layers, color-coded by what side they are on.  I activated the grid and labled it.  As combat progressed, I was able to just drag the figures around.  When I wanted to take an image and post it, I used a screen grab app that grabs only selections and saves to JPEG, allowing me to only grab the Photoshop window and keeping the grid visible.  This had the very useful side effect of allowing players to be very specific in their movements.  i.e. they could add in parentheses, (partial charge to G11, attack vampire X5 on G10) etc. This fixed my problems with tactical combat in my PBP game, which is what got Reaper so mad in the past.

2.  The main problem for the game was that people who initially joined were lost from the board altogether.  Those who are still posting in general are still in my game.  Frankly, I am now wary of acccepting people with reletively low post-counts or who havent been around that long, unless of course they are some of the hyperposting newbies like Timothy.

If anytihng, the fact that the IC forum is part of a much larger board is highkly advantagous at keeping players active.

3.  DM consistancy matters.   A lot.  A DM does not need to be overall apathetic to deal serious damage to his game.  All that is required is taking a few days off posting to cause serious damage.


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## GruTheWanderer (Feb 2, 2003)

Vargo said:
			
		

> *Y'know, I've tried three seperate games, and tried to stick around for all of them.  Two have died, and one is kind of hovering in between death and life, with the DM trying hard to resuscitate it - "From Citadel to Bastion" - and I'd *LOVE* to get a chance to play in one of these things that lasts longer than a month.
> 
> *FUME*
> 
> ...




Yeah, that's how I'd describe Citadel, too, but the current fight scene should trim the fat and get things moving.

MeepoTheMighty left without a word, Novyet could no longer access the boards, StalkingBlue got busy, and Ashrem decided he was committed to too many games (and he's the one that started the game).   Thanks for hanging in there.

This is why I want to be more selective when and if Dragonlance Classics becomes a reality.


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## Vargo (Feb 2, 2003)

Gru, just wanted to add - thanks for trying.  And heck, if you're looking for a player when you get your game going, let me know - I don't quit.


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## Pbartender (Feb 3, 2003)

Vargo...  If you would be interested in Star Wars, the Star Wars Iconic game is looking for a new Sia-Lan Wezz and a new Kaz Lo.

Anyway...  In my experience with PbPs, it isn't so much the frequency of posts, but the consistantancy of posts that's a problem.

I usually post in my games about two or three times a week (depending on how fast the players post).  It'd be too much to post every day.  And if I or someone else in the game is going to be absent for an extended period, it is only polite to warn everyone else ahead of time.

It is most difficult when people simply dissappear without a word.


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## Timothy (Feb 3, 2003)

*a DM's Duty*

About rudeness, the worse thing a DM can do is drop out of one of his own games. 

I can understand players losing interest, and I think it's up to the DM to get that interest back. If not, recruiting new players so that the players who DO want to play still have an interesting time. This is what I am doing with 'a Game of Gods' right now.
A DM losing interest is something I think is very unlikely, but it happens. But if a DM looses interest, he can always make things more interesting by making the story more interesting, introducing permanent NPC's and so on. Or they can tell how they want the campaign to be developping, so that the players can react on that.

I feel that DM's have a duty to uphold. they are the ones that keep the game running, if they don't want to, they shouldn't have started in the first place. By starting a game a DM has to get it going, unless the players loose interest. But this duty shouldn't be too hard. My DM-ing style is one of improvising, and that almosyt seems to work, except with 'A Game of Gods' So I decided to put more development in it and take out more time to prepare the adventours.

Well, this post is getting a bit vague, but I'm sure you can understand what I'm saying.


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## Zhure (Feb 3, 2003)

creamsteak said:
			
		

> *Psionicle, LHHS, Academy of Drell... *




HA! I got mentioned. Third, but still mentioned! HA!

I think Drell has a long duration because it's a very detailed world but the players don't have to know the details to jump in. I can include tidbits as it goes along. It's also generic-fantasy enough to incorporate lots of concepts, so players can port over whatever character they want from other games (although this time I did make strict hit dice ceilings for PCs).

Another key is a limit to the number of PCs. I find six is optimal, because you can gloss over players who drop out and give them time to get their stuff straightened out and get back. More than six leads to too many subplots and waiting on too many people. Less than six leads to stagnation because the synergism is lower.

I also think the DM has to be ready to do things you normally shouldn't in P&P games. In PBP, you can split the party, as Drell is right now, with little danger of losing interest as half the players go to the living room while you game in the kitchen in P&P D&D.

I've only been in one PBP game on EN World that died and part of it is the players' responsibilites. They have to post, even if they have nothing important to do. It lets the DM know they're roleplaying their apathy rather than having actual apathy. Conversely, the DM has to post regularly. In my PBP games both as a DM and as a player, I try to set myself a schedule and post a *minimum* of five times a week.

A long while back I used to run an email campaign and it died. It was the most detailed and crafted campaign I've ever been in and it was my fault it died. It was IME well-written and beautiful, but *my* lack of discipline caused it to die.

My absolute favorite email game (I was a player) died for no known reason. In mid-combat. I think that was because of the DM lacking discipline, too.

I think my favorite PBP game on EN right now is the Iconics game. Not because of Gnomeworks or the players, but because of the set up. Although Gnome and the players are doing a fine job, as did P-kitty before, but because the characters are easy to follow, have good imagery associated with them, and are simple to grasp. Because of their iconic nature, they are almost caricatures of good characters; their simplicity is their strength.

(If an opening comes up in the Iconics game, give me a holler.)

In sharp contrast to that, a lot of PBP PC's are so detailed and so intricate, the DM can't get a handle because there are too many handles. Unlike novels, the DM doesn't have the same infinite insight into the minds' of the main characters as does the writer of a novel.

As of this writing, the one PBP game I am most fond of is the Game of Opposites: Heroes. It's the early stages, which is the most fun, because character generation is exciting and mutable. When (if) the game commences, it's hack & slash and neither the players nor the DM have to be terribly concerned with backstory. It lets everyone concentrate on the future and their current actions...

Greg


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## Jemal (Feb 3, 2003)

My favourite thing about being a DM...
If you start to find your game boring, or less appealing that it origially was...
CHANGE SOMETHING.
You are the first and last decision maker, and as long as its not something that makes the game less fun for the players, it's a good thing.  Especially if it keeps you from going the way of the flumph.

I think that's also the best way of keeping player interest, too.  If their interest seems to be dieing out.. Throw them a random encounter, puzzle, interesting situation, weird NPC, etc, etc.. Ideas like that aren't too hard to come by, and should get the game going again, at least long enough for you to get something more interesting+long-term going in the game. (I actually have to admit that's what i'm doing in Intrigue in Candara right now... Stalling for time b/c I'm not finished some parts of the adventure...)

I've also got an idea on why people become DMs:

In my opinion and experience, the DM is just the person who has the most desire to play the game.  If there's no current game (Or not enough, PbP style), and you really want to play, your only option is to make one yourself, if the others aren't up to it.  Therefore, the DM is (usually) the Most dedicated person in the group.

Good bye, and Thank you for reading another edition of Random Ramblings.


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## Timothy (Feb 3, 2003)

Zhure said:
			
		

> *
> 
> As of this writing, the one PBP game I am most fond of is the Game of Opposites: Heroes. It's the early stages, which is the most fun, because character generation is exciting and mutable. When (if) the game commences, it's hack & slash and neither the players nor the DM have to be terribly concerned with backstory. It lets everyone concentrate on the future and their current actions...
> 
> Greg *




Thx for mentioning me too. I don't know who wrote it (I think it was Gray Gygax in an episode of once upon a soapbox, not sure) But someone once said that the moment before combat is the best moment there is in DND. You get to think of a strategy and you are allready enjoying the combat to be. That is what is the strength of A Game of Opposites. Both parties are focussed on combat and the preparation. Both parties are thinking up their own staregies. Snd the best thing is: I get to know the strategies and chars of both parties. 

and what Jemal said is indeed true, although this can be frustrating if someone is DM all the time. Luckily my current party, this isn't a problem, as Rino is learning to DM now that I can't make it to the gaming sessions because of other things I do in my weekends.


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## Jemal (Feb 3, 2003)

Timothy - Yeah, It sux a litle when you are ALWAYS the DM, but that's been the case IRL for me.  I actually was DMing for 2 years before I ever played the game..
  Maybe that's why I did so well back then, I was always thinking from a DM percpective, and didn't have any player pre-conceptions.  And even now I always end up DMing, mostly b/c It's just habit.. If we get together and someone wants to game, everyone turns to me and says "So what're we doing?"  They've each taken their turn behind the screen but eventually we come back to me...
Oh well, I enjoy it, and can't wait until the next time we get together.  I've finally decided to ressurect the BETA campaign IRL, which is something they've been bugging me about for months.

herein ends yet ANOTHER edition of Random Ramblings.


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## Timothy (Feb 3, 2003)

Hah, with thta kind of Rambling ability, you should join hivemind!


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