# Dark Sun confirmed for 5th edition



## martinlochsen (May 16, 2018)

It may be this is old news and I missed it, but I'll post it anyway, just in case.

In the last "Mike Mearls happy fun hour" on Twitch, Mearls confirmed that there will be Dark Sun material for 5e at some point. He was talking about psionics and how to handle it in 5e when he said that when making rules for psionics, it was important that they fit in with the Dark Sun setting, as psionics are so integral to that setting. This was so that when they released Dark Sun material for 5e, they wouldn't have problems. He stressed the "when" here, saying "when, not if".

If you want to see it, it's on the may 8th episode of Happy fun hour, about 1 hour into the video.


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## CapnZapp (May 16, 2018)

I happen to believe that companies get credit for what they do produce, not what they promise they will or won't produce in the future.

*Until there is official 5E support for Dark Sun, there isn't.*

What baffles me is how some customers seem to accept a five year wait as something other than entirely unreasonable and scandalous.

Have a nice day,
Zapp


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## delericho (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> I happen to believe that companies get credit for what they do produce, not what they promise they will or won't produce in the future.




Agreed. I'm now at the point that I'm not interested in vague hints or non-specific promises. If and when they announce an actual product (or the opening of the setting to DMsG) I'm interested; until then, I'm afraid not.



> What baffles me is how some customers seem to accept a five year wait as something other than entirely unreasonable and scandalous.




Here I disagree, though. WotC don't owe us Dark Sun (or Spelljammer, Eberron, whatever) or Psionics (or Incarnum, or Warlord, or whatever) support. If they never support these things, that's their prerogative - just as it's our prerogative to buy their products or not (for any reason we choose, or even for no reason at all).

So that five year wait _isn't_ unreasonable or scandalous. It's just a reality of business - their model is to produce a certain number of products, and until now Dark Sun just hasn't been the priority.


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## Jacob Lewis (May 16, 2018)

As much as I would love to see Dark Sun return to the table, I don't think it would be a good fit for the current business model. It needs (deserves!) to be it's own product line that stands apart from what WoC has dictated to be the norm for D&D. It is not a place you visit mid-campaign or rules you can just mesh with your current scenario. It is a different world with different rules and different expectations. If they present it any way similar to how they handled Ravenloft-- which worked fine for Ravenloft--I...

Ok, just had a stupid thought! They will do it just like Ravenloft! Your heroes from FR are transported to an alien desert world where everything is different and they are super strong.... John Carter on Mars, folks! I am calling it now!


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## Tormyr (May 16, 2018)

Jacob Lewis said:


> As much as I would love to see Dark Sun return to the table, I don't think it would be a good fit for the current business model. It needs (deserves!) to be it's own product line that stands apart from what WoC has dictated to be the norm for D&D. It is not a place you visit mid-campaign or rules you can just mesh with your current scenario. It is a different world with different rules and different expectations. If they present it any way similar to how they handled Ravenloft-- which worked fine for Ravenloft--I...
> 
> Ok, just had a stupid thought! They will do it just like Ravenloft! Your heroes from FR are transported to an alien desert world where everything is different and they are super strong.... John Carter on Mars, folks! I am calling it now!




"Hey, there is a nice village of halflings up ahead. Maybe they can put us up for the night and have us for dinner while we adjust to this new place..."


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## DEFCON 1 (May 16, 2018)

What baffles me is the fact that despite apparently being offended or disgusted by something that is supposedly unreasonable and scandalous... they still play the game and do absolutely nothing differently... thus rendering their complaints completely ignorable.  

"Yeah, this four star restaurant is good and all... but their bathrooms didn't have motion sensor faucets and I had to turn the water on by hand.  It's completely unreasonable and scandalous, and I'm going to write a scathing Yelp review once I finish my prime rib and then the tiramisu."


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## Sadras (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> What baffles me is how some customers seem to accept a five year wait as something other than entirely unreasonable and scandalous.




I take it GRRM is still not replying to your emails?


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## TheSword (May 16, 2018)

I’m a massive fan of Dark Sun, both the novels and the settings. However the adventures are the most railroady or railroads, even some of the bigger campaigns like Black spine. Or they are barely fleshed out like the City of the Silt Sea.

In 4e the hard cover adventure felt like a normal adventure that just happened to be set in Dark Sun which was very disappointing.

It may be a bit too much to ask but I would like to see Dark Sun get the Cubicle 7 treatment. With a rules variant that stays fun while being true to the setting with great campaigns. I can’t see it happening but at the least as Curse of Strahd quality campaign book would be preferable to just another setting guide.


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## OB1 (May 16, 2018)

It definitely feels like they are getting ready to announce their plans for alternate material planes, though I would be shocked if the settings got their own books.  

Instead, I see two potential releases, a Volo's/Xanthanar's/Mordenkanin's Player/DM supplement full of PC options, alternate rules and lore/genre fluff for 4-6 of the biggest settings (which will also unlock those for DM's Guild publishers) along with a Spelljammer style AP that will have the PCs traveling to each of those settings.

My guess for the settings would be 

Eberron
Dark Sun
Greyhawk
Dragonlance
Spelljammer

And it wouldn't surprise me at all if they put a brand new setting in as well.


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## Dausuul (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> I happen to believe that companies get credit for what they do produce, not what they promise they will or won't produce in the future.
> 
> *Until there is official 5E support for Dark Sun, there isn't.*




I absolutely agree with this. It's nice to hear that they have plans to do Dark Sun for 5E, eventually, at some point. But I don't regard that as "Dark Sun confirmed!" When they officially announce an actual product, that's confirmation. Until then, it's all speculative. Plans are all well and good, but plans change.



CapnZapp said:


> What baffles me is how some customers seem to accept a five year wait as something other than entirely unreasonable and scandalous.




...Not agreeing so much with this.

If they had publicly promised to deliver Dark Sun in a shorter time frame, and kept pushing it back for 5 years, that would indeed be unreasonable and scandalous. Mentioning that they have plans in that direction, without specifying a delivery date? That's not scandalous, that's just Mike Mearls describing where they see things going at this time. The alternative is that they don't say anything at all, and then we all get up in arms about how WotC isn't being transparent with the fans.

I'm the first to criticize WotC when I think they're not handling something well (yeah, Sage Advice, lookin' at you), but I see nothing to criticize about what they're doing here.


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## Pauper (May 16, 2018)

martinlochsen said:


> In the last "Mike Mearls happy fun hour" on Twitch, Mearls confirmed that there will be Dark Sun material for 5e at some point.




I think the OP's optimism has been thoroughly trampled by this point, but I'll just chime in to say "Dark Sun material" does not mean a campaign setting, any more than "an adventure set in Ravenloft" meant a 5e revision of the Ravenloft Campaign Setting.

--
Pauper


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## Bitbrain (May 16, 2018)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Ok, just had a stupid thought! They will do it just like Ravenloft! Your heroes from FR are transported to an alien desert world where everything is different and they are super strong.... John Carter on Mars, folks! I am calling it now!




Change it to where they are unknowingly flung a million or so years into the unrecognizable future; exclude Create or Destroy Water, Create Food and Drink, and Goodberry (maybe Heat Metal too); and have the plotline be King Kalak intending to use his ziggurat to transport his armies of Templars and Defilers back in time to conquer the past, and it honestly doesn't sound like a bad idea for an adventure path.

Advertise it as John Carter of Mars meets Planet of the Apes.


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## delericho (May 16, 2018)

Sadras said:


> I take it GRRM is still not replying to your emails?




So _that's_ what GRRM has been doing for the past 7 years!


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## CapnZapp (May 16, 2018)

DEFCON 1 said:


> "Yeah, this four star restaurant is good and all... but their bathrooms didn't have motion sensor faucets and I had to turn the water on by hand.  It's completely unreasonable and scandalous, and I'm going to write a scathing Yelp review once I finish my prime rib and then the tiramisu."




Sure, completely reasonable analogy.

Is there _anything_ WotC does less than perfectly according to you?

I mean, since suggesting we shouldn't hold WotC accountable for all talk and no action for year after year, to you is comparable to being a full-blown jackass and all.


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## martinlochsen (May 16, 2018)

The way they have been very careful with any information about future products so far for this edition makes me think that when Mearls states something with that level of certainty it's safe to say that at least this is something they are commited to doing. Though I'll admit the "confirmed" part of the thread title is blatant tabloidism to satisfy me need for attention. 

Anyway, this shows that at least there are plans for different settings for this edition, even though DS is obviously far in the future as he's saying straight out that the psionics rules will have to be in place first. But this might mean there are other settings (say Spelljammer perhaps?) closer to being released.

And yes, this is pure speculation, of course. But speculation is fun.


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## lowkey13 (May 16, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## Dausuul (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> Sure, completely reasonable analogy.
> 
> Is there _anything_ WotC does less than perfectly according to you?
> 
> I mean, since suggesting we shouldn't hold WotC accountable for all talk and no action for year after year, to you is comparable to being a full-blown jackass and all.



What product has WotC promised by a specific date and then failed to deliver on that date*? "Not as much action as we, the rabid fans, want" is far from "no action." They've been putting out material at a slow but steady pace.

[SIZE=-2]*Other than e-tools. I don't think anyone can dispute that WotC is abysmal at anything tech-related, whether they build it in-house (that godawful 4E Silverlight app) or outsource it (the DungeonScape/Codename: Morningstar fiasco). We did finally get a nice reference tool via D&D Beyond, but that was years after 5E was released, and we still don't have a decent electronic character sheet. Supposedly D&D Beyond has one in the works, but it's been in the works an awful long time, and the time frame keeps slipping.[/SIZE]


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## Oofta (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> Sure, completely reasonable analogy.
> 
> Is there _anything_ WotC does less than perfectly according to you?
> 
> I mean, since suggesting we shouldn't hold WotC accountable for all talk and no action for year after year, to you is comparable to being a full-blown jackass and all.




LOL, good to know I'm not the only one you consider a corporate shill just because they don't agree with you.

The all talk no action version of D&D that's selling millions of copies.  Sad, truly sad how they are failing so horribly.


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## jgsugden (May 16, 2018)

WotC doesn't owe us support for anything.  They can elect not to produce anything for any setting.

However, it would be in their best interest to maintain their IP by providing support for Blackmoor, Dark Sun, Krynn, FR, GH, Eberron, Mystara, Planescape, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Gamma World.  

Personally, I believe they should have edition agnostic support for all of these settings up that establish personalities, timelines, plotlines, maps, etc...  They should be out there with free access for players, and a DM access that is cheap - with the cost just enough to cover the cost to support the resources - that grants access that would not be common knowledge to players.

Then, they could still release 'crunch'/mechanics books that have classes, races, monsters, feats, spells, etc... and adventure paths at a cost.  Those books would best be released in two stages: 1.) A very basic pamphlet of unofficial mechanics at the release of a new edition (like a UA article), and 2.) More robust books when they can be worked into the full development cycle.

You'd be ready to run any game at any point in the timeline in any of their worlds... but still be looking forward to the official setting materials.


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## DEFCON 1 (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> Sure, completely reasonable analogy.
> 
> Is there _anything_ WotC does less than perfectly according to you?
> 
> I mean, since suggesting we shouldn't hold WotC accountable for all talk and no action for year after year, to you is comparable to being a full-blown jackass and all.




Well... I wasn't the one who used the word _scandalous_ to define the actions of Wizards and then chastising the rest of us for not reaching your level of apparent resentment.  I'm all for commenting on when they do something less than great, but I try to reserve hyperbole for things a little more important than D&D.  Heh heh.

I mean, if you think it is truly a SCANDAL that WotC hasn't produced any Dark Sun material yet for 5E, that's all well and good for you.  But if you think for one minute I'm not going to poke fun at you for that... _unreasonable_ attitude (see what I did there?)... you're sorely mistaken.  

When you merely comment that you don't like something, I don't usually reply.  It's when you put moral judgments on the actions of WotC that I show up and point out the absurdity.  LOL!


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## lowkey13 (May 16, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## TwoSix (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> There is nothing more important than D&D. NOTHING! I know this to be true; not just the truth, the best kind of truth ... ALL-CAPS INTERNET TRUTH!



D&D is so meaningful, there should be a paladin oath for it.

Only someone on the level of Bargle would dare to disrespect D&D.


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## lowkey13 (May 16, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## TwoSix (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> Ha! You think you are trolling me, but you have invoked the name of Bargle, the most Magnificent of all.
> 
> True fact- Bargle is the only D&D character to get name checked in a Supreme Court opinion!*
> 
> ...



I think you're confusing him with his good twin Argle.


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## lowkey13 (May 16, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## DEFCON 1 (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> Ha! You think you are trolling me, but you have invoked the name of Bargle, the most Magnificent of all.
> 
> True fact- Bargle is the only D&D character to get name checked in a Supreme Court opinion!*
> 
> ...




The only way Bargle could be more magnificent would be if he was a gnome paladin.


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## Parmandur (May 16, 2018)

I mean, we have Athas references in MToF, the PHB, the DMG, several of the APs...sure, they have plans for something further eventually, but it is already in the game.


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## variant (May 16, 2018)

I think it's likely they are planning a crunch book that has content for various campaign settings.


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## Oofta (May 16, 2018)

DEFCON 1 said:


> The only way Bargle could be more magnificent would be if he was a gnome paladin.




Hmmm ... I hadn't named the swords yet.  Sir McStabsalot with twin rapiers Argle and Bargle?  Kind of has a ring to it.

Much better than icing-cream or twinkle-toes like that emo drow guy.  What was his name again?  Drizzle?


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## Lidgar (May 16, 2018)

Oofta said:


> What was his name again?  Drizzle?




No, it was Shizzle, son of Snoop Drow.


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## Oofta (May 16, 2018)

Lidgar said:


> No, it was Shizzle, son of Snoop Drow.




Sure it wasn't D'Shizzle?


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## lowkey13 (May 16, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## thundershot (May 16, 2018)

I enjoyed Dark Sun, but I enjoyed Spelljammer a hell of a lot more...

We don't really NEED setting books. We just need a hardcover that contains all of the races/classes/setting info along with a nice adventure, followed by some web supplements and free reign on DMsGuild. 

One for Dark Sun
One for Spelljammer
One for Planescape

etc....

One book to get people started is all I'm asking...


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## Oofta (May 16, 2018)

thundershot said:


> I enjoyed Dark Sun, but I enjoyed Spelljammer a hell of a lot more...
> 
> We don't really NEED setting books. We just need a hardcover that contains all of the races/classes/setting info along with a nice adventure, followed by some web supplements and free reign on DMsGuild.
> 
> ...




Or just one book ...

One Book to rule them all, One Book to find them,
One Book to bring them all and in the darkness bind them
In the memories of past editions where the nostalgia lies.


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## Oofta (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> Would he have been cooler if he had umlauts?
> 
> Drïzzt  Dö'Ürdën.




Nah. Un'necessary sin'gle quotes are e'nough.  No need to get f'ancy.


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## lowkey13 (May 16, 2018)

*Deleted by user*


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## Eltab (May 16, 2018)

If WotC wanted to yank peoples' chains and watch the Athas stampede …

Put several potential 'defiling' mechanics in a UA article, and ask for playtest feedback.  On a deadline.


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## Satyrn (May 16, 2018)

Eltab said:


> If WotC wanted to yank peoples' chains and watch the Athas stampede …
> 
> Put several potential 'defiling' mechanics in a UA article, and ask for playtest feedback.  On a deadline.




Oh man! Dark Sun's 2 dozen fans would go crazy!

Strike that. That joke doesn't feel nice.


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## MechaTarrasque (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> Would he have been cooler if he had umlauts?
> 
> Drïzzt  Dö'Ürdën.




If Michael Bay was directing the D&D movie (the way Lolth intended), I am sure we would have gotten one of these--I would guess it would be D'Shizzle.


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## Satyrn (May 16, 2018)

MechaTarrasque said:


> If Michael Bay was directing the D&D movie (the way Lolth intended), I am sure we would have gotten one of these--I would guess it would be D'Shizzle.




That would make it the first Bay movie I'd ever consider d'shizzle.


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## Mistwell (May 16, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> What baffles me is how some customers seem to accept a five year wait as something other than entirely unreasonable and scandalous.






CapnZapp said:


> Sure, completely reasonable analogy.
> 
> Is there _anything_ WotC does less than perfectly according to you?
> 
> I mean, since suggesting we shouldn't hold WotC accountable for all talk and no action for year after year, to you is comparable to being a full-blown jackass and all.




People don't think about this game the same way as you think about this game.

That's kinda been the point of 90% of the replies to you since this version of the game came out, and it's not sinking in. 

It's not that you're "bad" for being different in your views...its that you don't realize your views are different. You keep being frustrated and baffled that others don't seem to think about the game like you do. You often use words like "we" when you're speaking for yourself and then appear surprised when there isn't a chorus agreeing with you.

The explanation is pretty simple - you think differently about the game than most people do.

It's not bad, but at some point it might help you to accept that and go in assuming your views on things that frustrate you with this game are likely different than the views of most other fans. That way you get get past all the exasperation with others.


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## cbwjm (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> TAKE.
> 
> THAT.
> 
> ...




Considering some of the arguments I've seen online, I think that for some people this really is the truth.


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## Staffan (May 16, 2018)

lowkey13 said:


> Good?
> 
> Bad?
> 
> Bargle is the guy with the boomstick.



No, that's Prinz Jaggar von Drachenfels. Or maybe Myrlund.


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## Garthanos (Dec 9, 2018)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Ok, just had a stupid thought! They will do it just like Ravenloft! Your heroes from FR are transported to an alien desert world where everything is different and they are super strong.... John Carter on Mars, folks! I am calling it now!




That is how I used Darksun in 4e... almost exactly. Except not necessarily super strong.... more like super inspiring huge bright heroes who are a bold light in the dark of this other world. Turning an assassin into a freedom fighter, freeing slaves left right and center. Carrying healing inspiration around in your pocket.


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## Garthanos (Dec 9, 2018)

Eltab said:


> If WotC wanted to yank peoples' chains and watch the Athas stampede …
> 
> Put several potential 'defiling' mechanics in a UA article, and ask for playtest feedback.  On a deadline.




Mearles hinted a finish of his Warlord fighter subclass might be appropriate to Darksun


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## Jester David (Dec 9, 2018)

martinlochsen said:


> It may be this is old news and I missed it, but I'll post it anyway, just in case.
> 
> In the last "Mike Mearls happy fun hour" on Twitch, Mearls confirmed that there will be Dark Sun material for 5e at some point. He was talking about psionics and how to handle it in 5e when he said that when making rules for psionics, it was important that they fit in with the Dark Sun setting, as psionics are so integral to that setting. This was so that when they released Dark Sun material for 5e, they wouldn't have problems. He stressed the "when" here, saying "when, not if".
> 
> If you want to see it, it's on the may 8th episode of Happy fun hour, about 1 hour into the video.




Be wary when taking spoken quotes completely literally. If it's off the cuff and not a prepared statement, human error can be a big factor. 

Yes, he said "when" and not "if". Sure. But given enough time, almost every major setting will see some release as either a hardcover campaign setting or an adventure or a PDF on the DMsGuild. 
And knowing that, you want to make things easier for yourself in the future and plan ahead. Designing psionics to fit Dark Sun seems as reasonable as designing the artificer to fit Eberron.


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## Azzy (Dec 9, 2018)

If this pans out, I'll be happy for my fellow gamers that like Darksun. However, considering that I never cared for the setting in the least, this will rate right up there with Ravnica and SCAG for products that I have little to no interest in. :/


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## Mistwell (Dec 9, 2018)

Odd necro of a thread...


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## Garthanos (Dec 9, 2018)

Mistwell said:


> Odd necro of a thread...





I am a great necromancer lots of interesting thoughts need revisited once in a while.

That and I am just getting interested in 5e.


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## Charlaquin (Dec 9, 2018)

Wow, what a disappointing thing to see on the first page only to learn that not only was it a misleading title, it’s also from over six months ago.


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## Parmandur (Dec 9, 2018)

More recently Mearls has made similar statements on Happy Fun Hour: we'll see Dark Sun sooner rather than later...


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## Benjamin Wandio (Dec 26, 2018)

Disappointed this was from six months ago? I was pleasantly surprised that this was _only_ from six months ago. After watching Krull and Scorpion King, I could use some classic 80s sword and sorcerery like Dark Sun in my life.


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## CapnZapp (Dec 26, 2018)

It is tedious to have this pop up again and again. I really wish the mods would prefix the thread title with "Baseless speculation: ".


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## Ancalagon (Dec 26, 2018)

CapnZapp said:


> It is tedious to have this pop up again and again. I really wish the mods would prefix the thread title with "Baseless speculation: ".




Some's people threshold of "confirmed" is.... ridiculously low.


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