# Stat this up # 1



## Nookie (Oct 8, 2012)

ANyone wanna chip in on stating this critter as a home-brew.


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## Nookie (Oct 9, 2012)

Really 91 views and zero posts?

Ok I'm thinking fey or plant seems the most obvious. Though outsider is not out of the question.


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## freyar (Oct 9, 2012)

I never knew smurfs had such animal-like faces.  Kind of cat-like.

Anyway, I'd say fey.


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## Nookie (Oct 9, 2012)

Well rethinking it we should start from the top. What to name this kitty shroom smurf?


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## Dog Moon (Oct 11, 2012)

I agree.  Definitely Few.  Probably size Tiny.  As for the name, ugh, I don't know.  I'm terrible with names!

You could go with something descriptive like Shroom Cap or something.  Or what I like to do sometimes is take a descriptive word, like Blue, and find the etymology or translation of the word in a different language.  In this case, the etymology of Blue just comes up with a bunch of VERY similar words to Blue so that wouldn't work.  According to this random website I found that apparently goes through the colors and tells what they are in like a billion different languages, Gorm, Okchamali, Urdin, Kavak all mean blue.  Some of them sound Fey-like.  There's also a LOT more, but I got tired part of the way through...

Colors in Different Languages

In case you're curious.


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## Nookie (Oct 11, 2012)

hmm Spooh Shroomling or Urdin Shroomling both sound good? what do the rest of you think?


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## freyar (Oct 11, 2012)

Urdin Shroomling. 

And Diminutive.  There aren't enough Diminutive critters.


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## Nookie (Oct 11, 2012)

Sounds Good to me.

SO far

*Urdin Shroomling

*Diminutive Fey
Hit Dice: Xd6+x (x hp)
Initiative: x
Speed: 4 ft. (x squares)
Armor Class: x (+x size, +x natural, -x Dex), touch x, flat-footed x
Base Attack/Grapple: +x/+x
Attack: x
Full Attack: x
Space/Reach: x ft./x ft. (xft. w/x)
Special Attacks: X
Special Qualities: x
Saves: Fort +X, Ref +X, Will +X
Abilities: Str 0, Dex 0, Con 0, Int 0, Wis 0, Cha 0
Skills: X
Feats: X
Environment: X
Organization: X
Challenge Rating: X
Treasure: X
Alignment: X
Advancement: X
Level Adjustment: X

 Description

Flavor text.



[blank] speak x.

*COMBAT*


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## Nookie (Nov 8, 2012)

How does some sort of neutral and 1 Hd sound?


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## freyar (Nov 8, 2012)

Usually neutral and 1HD makes good sense.

Sorry, been pretty busy and haven't had much time for monster creation (keeping up with conversions is enough!).


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## Nookie (Nov 8, 2012)

Yeah its cool i figured these would be something to bounch back and forth for a change of pace.


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## Nookie (Nov 12, 2012)

ANy ideas for some powers? Maybe some kind of magical spores?
Curative spores
Illusiory spores
Spores that make people become lost

Maybe some sort of Snail afinity. We could stat out a riding snale or something they use as transportatin.


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## freyar (Nov 13, 2012)

Illusory spores sound fun.

I'd have them associate with snails but leave it as flavor text.


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## Cleon (Dec 9, 2012)

freyar said:


> Illusory spores sound fun.
> 
> I'd have them associate with snails but leave it as flavor text.




Looks like I'm late to the party. It's been so long since I checked Homebrew.

If the blackberry and snail are the same size as those in what we laughably call Real Life, I'd say this fellow it Fine-sized.

Diminutive is OK thought - it must be a Giant Blackberry.

The fact they're carrying fruit and a mollusc suggests it might be omnivorous.

Does look like a Fey to me, though I would have been OK with some kind of Micro-Myconid.

Do we give them any common Fey powers, like invisibility?

No scrub that, how about they hide themselves by sticking their feet in the ground and taking the form of a mundane mushroom!


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## freyar (Dec 10, 2012)

The size business is a bit weird.  The table in the MM glossary says Fine is "6 in or less" in length, while Diminutive is longer/taller.  However, the table in the PHB lists the example critters as being a fly for Fine and a toad for Diminutive.  Now, 6 inches is a pretty darn big toad.  Which takes precedence?


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## Cleon (Dec 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> The size business is a bit weird.  The table in the MM glossary says Fine is "6 in or less" in length, while Diminutive is longer/taller.  However, the table in the PHB lists the example critters as being a fly for Fine and a toad for Diminutive.  Now, 6 inches is a pretty darn big toad.  Which takes precedence?




I generally use the _Monster Manual_ table for the sizes. Of course it's not applied very consistently in practice. A lot of beasties seem to be a size category larger (or, more rarely, smaller) than their actual dimensions suggest, but it does say the values are only typical lengths & weights.

Anyhow, what about the "fey powers" question - do we give them any abilities common to, say, Sprites. e.g. spell-like abilities, _invisibility_, damage reduction X/cold iron, low-light vision and spell resistance.

For that matter, is this creature some kind of Sprite?


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## freyar (Dec 10, 2012)

All fey get low-light vision (unless otherwise specified) by the rules for the type.  I wouldn't make them a sprite; for some reason they seem a bit less magical from that picture.  But I'm just spitballing.  Maybe Nookie has some preference?


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## Cleon (Dec 10, 2012)

freyar said:


> All fey get low-light vision (unless otherwise specified) by the rules for the type.  I wouldn't make them a sprite; for some reason they seem a bit less magical from that picture.  But I'm just spitballing.  Maybe Nookie has some preference?




A Sprite would seem to be a good model for the stats, although we needn't actually make 'em sprites.


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## freyar (Dec 10, 2012)

That's a fair point.  But, if we give it SLAs, I kind of feel like giving it more plant (and maybe animal) centric ones.  Like druid spells.


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## Cleon (Dec 11, 2012)

freyar said:


> That's a fair point.  But, if we give it SLAs, I kind of feel like giving it more plant (and maybe animal) centric ones.  Like druid spells.




Curiously enough, I can't think of a fungus creature in D&D that has druidic spells offhand. I suppose Myconid Kings (okay, okay, "Sovereigns") have a few druid SLAs for the purposes of potion making. Of the Myconids selection, only _hide from animals_ and _greater magic fang_ are Druid/Ranger spells.

The picture suggests they prefer weapons over natural attacks (which raises the question as to how they fight off anything nasty with those dinky little weapons - maybe poison). I could see _hide from animals_ being useful though.

Any other Druid spells you fancy?


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## freyar (Dec 12, 2012)

Speak with plants, plant growth, and perhaps entangle seem interesting to me.


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## Cleon (Dec 12, 2012)

freyar said:


> Speak with plants, plant growth, and perhaps entangle seem interesting to me.




You know, we could convert the functionality of those SLAs into supernatural spores à la the Myconid - e.g. a Myconid's _Rapport_ could become _Plantspeech_.

Also, are we giving them a weapon with a special attack, comparable to a pixie's special arrows - maybe "special spears?".


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## freyar (Dec 12, 2012)

Turning them into Su spores could work; could add those features along with the illusions.

I'd be ok with special spears but would like to see how they turn out with the SLAs/spores first.


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## Cleon (Dec 12, 2012)

freyar said:


> Turning them into Su spores could work; could add those features along with the illusions.
> 
> I'd be ok with special spears but would like to see how they turn out with the SLAs/spores first.




Well let's sort out the basics before we start figuring out the special abilities.

We agree on Diminutive Fey, so what abilities shall we give 'em?


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## freyar (Dec 13, 2012)

HD seems like the most basic thing.  1/2?


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## Cleon (Dec 13, 2012)

freyar said:


> HD seems like the most basic thing.  1/2?




Yeah, that would seem to fit with Fey precedents.


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## freyar (Dec 15, 2012)

The grig is Str 5, Dex 18, Con 13.  Just downsize to Str 3, Dex 20, Con 13?  Somehow, I feel like the grig's stats work well; these look a little more buff and maybe less flexible.


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## Cleon (Dec 16, 2012)

freyar said:


> The grig is Str 5, Dex 18, Con 13.  Just downsize to Str 3, Dex 20, Con 13?  Somehow, I feel like the grig's stats work well; these look a little more buff and maybe less flexible.




How about splitting the difference and making them Str 4, Dex 19, Con 13?

Same ability modifiers, but distinct from the larger Grig.


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## Cleon (Dec 16, 2012)

Oh, and shall we start a Working Draft, or are we leaving it to Nookie to update the *Shroomling Outline* he posted?


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## freyar (Dec 17, 2012)

I can go with those abilities.  

And I was going to leave this one to Nookie.


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## Cleon (Dec 17, 2012)

freyar said:


> I can go with those abilities.
> 
> And I was going to leave this one to Nookie.




Well Nookie started this conversion, so we should make 'm do some of the work!


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## Nookie (Jan 9, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Well Nookie started this conversion, so we should make 'm do some of the work!




Make me work? oh the audacity!! 
Er anyway Sorry iv'e been without the net for the last 2 months. Im liking what i am seeing. I like the druidic spores thing.  

Looking more closely at the pic the snake is impaled through the head so the snail empathy thing might not work out so good. 

Maybe Goodberry as one of its SLA it sprinkles nutritious spores on the berries and they grow to become plump magical goodberries.

maybe shroomlings nitch is to destroy destructive vermin (such as the carnivorous Snail  )and they have some powers to do just that. Natural pesticide spores. resistance to swarm damage.

Maybe we should stat up a shroomling swarm?

It would br great is someone put togeather a working draft as i'm not 100% sure how?

Does the CC have a section for non conversions?


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## Cleon (Jan 9, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Make me work? oh the audacity!!
> Er anyway Sorry iv'e been without the net for the last 2 months. Im liking what i am seeing. I like the druidic spores thing.
> 
> Looking more closely at the pic the snake is impaled through the head so the snail empathy thing might not work out so good.




A ranger has wild empathy and there's nothing that stops them killing animals - indeed, than can be their schtick.



Nookie said:


> Maybe Goodberry as one of its SLA it sprinkles nutritious spores on the berries and they grow to become plump magical goodberries.




Giving them _goodberry_ as a SLA is fine, although what you propose seems more like a spores ability that mimics _goodberry_.



Nookie said:


> maybe shroomlings nitch is to destroy destructive vermin (such as the carnivorous Snail  )and they have some powers to do just that. Natural pesticide spores. resistance to swarm damage.




Hmm, "Vermin Killing Spores?" maybe



Nookie said:


> Maybe we should stat up a shroomling swarm?




Why not!



Nookie said:


> It would br great is someone put togeather a working draft as i'm not 100% sure how?




There's no great mystery to it. Just go to the *Shroomling Outline* you started, change the title to "Shroomling Working Draft", and edit in the stuff we come up with.

If you don't fancy that I can do the working draft instead.



Nookie said:


> Does the CC have a section for non conversions?




No, it's just for "edition updates" of pre 3E monsters.


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## Nookie (Jan 9, 2013)

AH ha Ok. i guess we can put them in the CC ultimate homebrew index.

Ok we have Vermin killing spores (Poison or just straight up damage. works better on swarms maybe)
Goodberry spores
and weird spear powers ANy ideas for the spears. (Vermin bane maybe?)


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## freyar (Jan 10, 2013)

Bane seems a bit powerful for their weapons.  How about having them be mildly hallucinogenic?  Like, getting hit by one causes a fascination effect (like hypnotism)?


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## Nookie (Jan 11, 2013)

yeah that sounds good some minor bad state like dazzled or hypnotism.


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## Nookie (Jan 11, 2013)

Hypnotic Quils (su): Urdin Shroomlings carry special shortspears made from the quills of forest animals such as porcupines. The shroomling can choose to not do damage and instead anyone struck by one of these quills must roll a Dc X will save or be subject to an effect similar to the Hypnotism spell except there is not limit to the maximum number of hit dice the ability may effect.

Pesticide Spores (Ex): 1/day An Urdin Shroomling can produce a 5 ft spread of special chalk white spores from its cap that sicken creatures that fail a fortitude save for 1d4 rounds. However against vermin these spores are especially dangerous also acting as a poison delivering 1d6 primary and secondary con damage. Against swarms of vermin this poison is even more effective delivering 2d6 con damage.

Goodberry Spores (Su): 3/day an Urdin Shroomling can use the special blue spores on its skin to imbue small fruits with special powers copying the effects of the goodberry spell.


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## Cleon (Jan 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Hypnotic Quils (su): Urdin Shroomlings carry special shortspears made from the quills of forest animals such as porcupines. The shroomling can choose to not do damage and instead anyone struck by one of these quills must roll a Dc X will save or be subject to an effect similar to the Hypnotism spell except there is not limit to the maximum number of hit dice the ability may effect.
> 
> Pesticide Spores (Ex): 1/day An Urdin Shroomling can produce a 5 ft spread of special chalk white spores from its cap that sicken creatures that fail a fortitude save for 1d4 rounds. However against vermin these spores are especially dangerous also acting as a poison delivering 1d6 primary and secondary con damage. Against swarms of vermin this poison is even more effective delivering 2d6 con damage.
> 
> Goodberry Spores (Su): 3/day an Urdin Shroomling can use the special blue spores on its skin to imbue small fruits with special powers copying the effects of the goodberry spell.




I'm not so sure about the Hypnotic "Quils" [sic]. If we opt for a hallucinogenic poison, I'd rather it allow the victim to act normally but at a mild penalty. Maybe have it be a skin secretion which it can coat its weapons with or deliver with a touch, and which affect creatures that bite/grapple it?



Nookie said:


> The Pesticide Spores and Goodberry Spores look OK, although I was thinking of wrapping them all under a single "Spores" SA like the 3E Myconid:
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Cleon (Jan 11, 2013)

Cleon said:


> If you don't fancy that I can do the working draft instead.




So am I starting a Working Draft?


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## Nookie (Jan 12, 2013)

If you don't mind


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## Cleon (Jan 12, 2013)

Nookie said:


> If you don't mind




*Grumble Grumble*

*blinkin' freeloaders expecting me to do all the work*

*Grumble Grumble*


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## Cleon (Jan 12, 2013)

*Shroomling Working Draft*

*Urdin Shroomling
*Diminutive Fey
*Hit Dice:* ½d6+1 (2 hp)
*Initiative:* +4
*Speed:* 20 ft. (4 squares)
*Armor Class:* 18 (+4 size, +4 Dex, +x natural), touch 18, flat-footed 14
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +0/-15
*Attack:* Shortspear +8 melee (1d2-3) or shortspear +8 ranged (1d2-3)
*Full Attack:* Shortspear +8 melee (1d2-3) or shortspear +8 ranged (1d2-3)
*Space/Reach:* 1 ft./0 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Spell-like abilities, special quills, spores
*Special Qualities:* Damage reduction 5/cold iron, freedom from plants, low-light vision
*Saves:* Fort +1, Ref +6, Will +4
*Abilities:* Str 4, Dex 19, Con 13, Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 15
*Skills:* Knowledge (nature) +4, Hide +18, Listen +6, Move Silently +8*,  Spot +6, Survival +4, Tumble +8
*Feats:* Track, Weapon Finesse (B)
*Environment:* Any forest or underground
*Organization:* Solitary, hunting party (2-8), or circle (5-20 plus 1 gorri shroomling)
*Challenge Rating:* 2
*Treasure:* No coins, standard goods, standard items
*Alignment:* Always neutral, often chaotic
*Advancement:* 1-3 HD (Tiny) or by character class
*Level Adjustment:* +3

_A pale-blue creature the size and shape of a sprite with a   feline face, whiskers, and large dark eyes. The top of its head  resembles the broad white cap of a  mushroom. Its legs and feet are  likewise clad in white mushroom-like  skin. Slung over its shoulder is a  case containing several tiny spears._

Shroomlings are forest-dwelling fey with mushroom like heads. They can  create magical spores in a similar fashion to myconids, but are not  related to the mushroom folk. Reclusive creatures, shroomlings do not  fight evil and ugliness like sprites do, but can be very aggressive in  the defense of their homelands. They particularly dislike destructive  vermin that threaten the plants and fungi they depend upon.

These stats describe the commonest type of shroomling, known as an  urdin. An urdin who survives long enough will grow in size and strength  and  eventually transform into a gorri shroomling, easily identifiable  by its red mushroom cap. Shroomlings live in small communities known as  circles, each composed of a group of urdin led by a single gorri. They  usually live in puffball-like dwellings they grow out of the soil from  magical spores.

An urdin shroomling stands stands 1½ feet tall and weighs about 1 pound.

Urdin shroomlings speak Common, Terran and Sylvan.

*Combat*
Shroomling tactics rely on stealthy  ambushes and hit-and-run attacks.  They prefer to fight from a distance  using spell-like abilities,  spores, and thrown quills. A shroomling uses  its trance quills against  most opponents, reserving its venom quills  for mortal enemies.

*Freedom from Plants (Ex):*  A shroomling is immune to entanglement  by plants, including plant  monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic  that cause plants to  entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _ entangle_). 

Shroomlings may move through any sort of mundane undergrowth (natural    thorns, briars, etc.) at their normal  speed without taking damage or   suffering any other impairment. Brush and overgrown areas that has been    magically manipulated to impede movement will only affect a   shroomling's  movement if the effect causes damage, such as a  _wall of thorns_ spell.

*Special Quills (Su)*
Urdin shroomlings sometimes employ magically envenomed shortspears that can poison a creature they hit or put them into a trance.

_Trance:_ An opponent struck by this quill takes no damage, but must succeed on a DC 14  Will save or become fascinated with a random object within 30 ft. The  target stares raptly at the object of its interest for 2d4 rounds or the  fascination effect is broken. The save DC is Charisma-based and  includes a +2 racial bonus.

_Venom:_ A venom quill does normal shortspear damage and transmits a   nasty poison (injury, DC 14 Fortitude save, initial and secondary  damage  1d2 Con, or 1d4 Con if the target is a Vermin). This venom is   supernaturally fast, so the secondary damage takes effect after 1 round,   not the 1 minute delay of standard poison. The save DC is  Charisma-based and  includes a +2 racial bonus.

*Spell-Like Abilities (Sp):* 3/day—_create water_, _detect animals or plants_ and _detect poison_. Caster level 3rd.

*Spores (Su)*
Shroomling can produce several different varieties of spores, as  described below. Unless otherwise stated, releasing a cloud of spores is  a standard action. Each type of spore can be used a number of times per  day equal to 1 plus the shroomling's Con modifier (minimum 1). Spores  can be released either in a spread or as a ray against a single target,  as noted in the individual spore descriptions, the range depends on the  type of spore. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

_Distress Spores_
As an immediate action, a shroomling can emit a 40 ft. radius  spread of spores that inform all other shroomlings in range of danger.  Distress spores will instantly awaken shroomlings from sleep (normal or  magical) but do not otherwise disturb concentration. They will not  awaken an unconscious shroomling. If the spore-emitting shroomling is  aware of a particular danger, all other shroomling with range are also  aware of it. If the spore-emitting shroomling is not flatfooted against  an opponent, none of the other shroomlings are. The effects of distress  spores only last for 1 round.

_Magic Mushrooms_
These spores are produced in a 5 ft. radius spread and cause 1d4 mushrooms  to spring from an area of rich soil within the spread. These mushrooms are highly  nutritious and have mild healing properties, identical to berries  transmuted by a _goodberry_  spell (caster level 3rd). e.g. a magic  mushroom is a normal meal's worth of nourishment for a Medium creature  and also cures 1 point of damage when eaten, subject to a maximum of 8  points of such curing in any 24-hour  period. 

_Pesticide Spores_
A shroomling can spit out a puff   of spores with a range of 40 ft. which explodes in a 10 ft. radius spread. All   creatures within the area must succeed at a DC 12 Fortitude save or be sickened for 1d4 rounds. In addition,  the spores do 2d6 damage  to any Vermin within the spread, or 3d6 to any  swarm of Vermin. The  damage is halved if the Vermin succeed at the  Fortitude save. Pesticide spores are treated as a poison attack by  creatures with immunity or resistance to poison.

_Woodrot Spores_
A shroomling can spit out spores in a 40 ft. ray that  can cause wooden objects and plants to immediately decay, spouting mold  and mushrooms. A living plant, plant creature or magical wooden object  can negate the  woodrot spores by succeeding on a DC 12 Fortitude save.  Non-magical  wooden objects get no save. Woodrot does 1d6 damage to plants and wooden objects (ignoring hardness). In addition,  plant creatures take 1d3 Str and 1d3 Con damage, while wooden objects  and living plants are softened, warped and weakened, gaining a -2  penalty on hardness (if any) and all skill checks, ability checks and  attack rolls involving the rotted target have a -4 penalty. For example,  a woodrotted quarterstaff has a -4 attack penalty and -2 to hardness, a  woodrotted oak door has -2 to hardness and -4 to its Break DC.

*Skills:* Shroomlings have a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. *In areas  of forest or heavy brush, the Move Silently bonus improves to +8.

*Gorri Shroomling
*Tiny Fey
*Hit Dice:* 4d6+8 (22 hp)
*Initiative:* +4
*Speed:* 20 ft. (4 squares)
*Armor Class:* 19 (+2 size, +4 Dex, +3 natural [_barkskin_]), touch 16, flat-footed 15
*Base Attack/Grapple:* +2/-7
*Attack:* Shortspear +8 melee (1d3-1) or shortspear +8 ranged (1d3-1)
*Full Attack:* Shortspear +8 melee (1d3-1) or shortspear +8 ranged (1d3-1)
*Space/Reach:* 2½ ft./0 ft.
*Special Attacks:* Spell-like abilities, special quills, spores
*Special Qualities:* Damage reduction 5/cold iron, freedom from plants, low-light vision
*Saves:* Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +7
*Abilities:* Str 8, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 17
*Skills:* Balance +6, Diplomacy +8, Jump +1, Knowledge (nature) +7, Hide +19, Listen +9, Move Silently +10*,  Spot +9, Survival +6 (+8 underground), Tumble +9, Use Magic Item +8
*Feats:* Plant Defiance, Track, Weapon Finesse (B)
*Environment:* Any forest or underground
*Organization:* Solitary, ring (2-12), or circle (1 plus 5-20 shroomling)
*Challenge Rating:* 4
*Treasure:* No coins, standard goods, standard items
*Alignment:* Always neutral, often chaotic
*Advancement:* by character class
*Level Adjustment:* +4

_A pale-blue creature the size and shape of a sprite. __ The top of its head  resembles the broad cap of a  mushroom and is covered in white and red skin. __Beneath  this "cap" is a feline face with large dark eyes and many whiskers,  both long catlike whiskers on its muzzle and lush chin-__whiskers akin to a beard__. __Its legs and feet are clad in mushroom-like  skin like the crown of its head._

Gorri are the elders of the shroomling race.  They occupy a revered   leadership position, with each gorri usually  having a circle of up to   twenty urdin under its care. Every season,  gorri leave their homes and  gather together in council rings  to discuss conditions in  their  forest. Should some calamity threaten the  safety of the  shroomlings,  the gorri gather in an "out of season" ring  to debate how  to deal with  it.

The areas of red on a gorri's fungus-like "cap" and "boots" grow larger     and larger as the gorri ages. These red markings start on the gorri's     scalp but eventually appear on its boots. Freshly ripened gorri have  a    white cap with red spots and all-white legs. Fully mature gorri  have  red   caps with white spots and white boots with red  embellishments. The    oldest (and often most powerful) gorri have solid  red caps and boots.         
A gorri shroomling stands 2 to 3 feet tall and weighs about 3 pounds.
​*Combat*
When possible, a gorri shroomling stays removed from active combat,   creating fighting fungi to serve as its proxies in melee. It hangs  back  to cast magic, spores and quills, often supporting shroomling allies  with battle spores and healing.                         
​*Barkskin (Su):* Gorri shroomlings have a continuous _barkskin_  ability as the spell (caster level HD+2). The effect can be dispelled,  but the gorri can create it again on its next turn as a free action.

*Special Quills (Su):* A gorri shroomling can employ the following  type of magically envenomed shortspear in addition to the quills  available to an urdin shroomling.

_Hallucination:_ An opponent struck by a hallucination quill takes  no damage but is  implanted with a nonlethal poison  (injury, DC 17  Fortitude save, initial damage 1d4 Wis and 1d4 rounds of confusion,  secondary damage 1d4 Int and 1d4 minutes of confusion). This poison is    supernaturally  fast, so the secondary damage takes effect after 1  round,   not the 1  minute delay of standard poison. The save DC is   Charisma-based and   includes a +2 racial bonus.

*Spell-Like Abilities (Sp):* 3/day—_entangle_ (DC 14), _speak with plants, tree stride, wood shape_ (DC 15). Caster level 6th. The save DCs are Charisma-based.

*Spores (Su):* A gorri shroomling can produce the following types of spores in addition to the spore types available to an Urdin shroomling.

_Battle Powder Spores_
A gorri shroomling can spit out a puff   of spores   with a  range of 40 ft. which explodes in a 10 ft. radius spread. All   shroomlings within the spread are imbued with strength and skill in   combat for a duration of 1d6 rounds plus the gorri's Charisma bonus.  Their base attack bonus becomes equal  to their Hit Dice (which may give  them additional attacks) and they  gain a +4 enhancement bonus to  Strength.

_Fighting Fungus Spores_
A gorri shroomling can spit a ray of spores with   a 40 ft. range. If this ray hits a mass of lifeless organic material   weighing at least 200 pounds (such as a forest floor rich in humus, a   dead tree trunk, or a Medium sized humanoid corpse) the spores instantly   germinate and a strange multi-armed fungus grows from the material   within 1d3 rounds. this fungus has the statistics of a violet fungus   except it lacks a poison special attack. The fighting fungus behaves   like a creature summoned with a _summon nature's ally_ spell, attacking the gorri's opponents to the best of its ability. The gorri can use _speak with plants_   to communicate with the creature and direct it not to attack, to  attack  particular enemies, or to perform other actions. A fighting  fungus  decomposes to harmless pulp 1d10+10 rounds after it appears.

_Fungal Creation Spores_
As a full round action, a gorri shroomling can  spray a complex pattern of spores that grow into a building or object  made of dense fungus material. The spores must have sufficient organic  material (dead wood, rich loam, corpses, et cetera) to transform into  whatever the gorri is trying to create. A fungal building requires  roughly 200 pounds of raw material per 5 ft. square of construction.

    Used for _building_, the gorri can erect a toadstool- or  puffball-like hut up to 10 ft. in diameter and 5 ft. tall; a tower 5 ft.  in diameter and 10 ft. tall, a ledge or wall up to 40 ft. long and 5  ft. wide or tall, a bridge 5 ft. wide spanning a gap up to 20 ft., or  any other construction of similar size. The walls and floor of such  fungal constructions are as tough as thin, soft wood (hardness 5, Break  DC 13, 10 hit points per 5 ft. section). The building can include doors,  windows, shutters, gates and the like, but these are part of a whole  construction, joined to it by fleshy fungal hinges. The construction  must be rooted in soil, and crumbles to powder within an hour if it is  uprooted. as will any part cut away from the whole.

    Used for _manufacture_, the gorri can create nonmagical objects  of nonliving fungal matter with the physical properties of wood. The  gorri can manufacture objects up to 300 pounds in weight or 12 cubic  feet in volume. It can manufacture multiple objects (up to 50), but they  must be identical. Fungal creation can create complex shapes, but  nothing with any moving parts. It can not create "fungal armour" and the  only weapons it can manufacture are clubs, staves, darts, javelins, and  spears. In other respects, this ability is equivalent to a _minor creation_ spell (caster level 12th).

   A gorri's fungal creations normally last for 1d4+12 days before they crumble to powder. However, a shroomling can spray _Magic Mushroom_, _Healing Spores_ or _Fungal Creation Spores_ on an existing fungal creation to grants it a duration of 1d4  days plus the spores' caster level. The durations do not stack. (i.e. if  a creation has 4 days of duration left, the dose of spores must roll 5+ on the d4+CL check to increase the duration of the  fungal creation). If a shroomling uses spores to extend the life  of a fungal creation the spores do not create their normal effects (i.e.  _Magic Mushrooms_ do not also sprout healing mushrooms).

_Healing Spores_
A gorri shroomling can  produce spores with magical healing properties as a ray with an 40 foot  range. The healing spores have the same effect as a conjuration  (healing)   cleric spell of caster level 6th, but require no spell  components, and   their save DCs (where applicable) are Charisma-based.  Gorri healing spores can duplicate any one of the following: _cure light wounds_, _cure minor wounds_, _cure moderate wounds_, _delay poison_, _lesser restoration_, _neutralize poison_, _remove blindness/deafness_, _remove disease_.

Alternatively, the gorri can use these spores to cause a  "healing  mushroom" to spring from any area of rich soil within range. The  mushroom functions identically to a potion containing the  healing  spell, and can be dried or pickled and still retain its magical  properties. The gorri must pay experience points  equal to the normal XP  cost of the potion.


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## freyar (Jan 12, 2013)

Rather than having the spears/quills carry poison, I was thinking they could be magical, like a pixie's sleep arrows.  So I pretty much like Nookie's draft of that ability.  

I would probably also combine the spore abilities into one, and I'm ok with making those poison.


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## Nookie (Jan 14, 2013)

Cool beans. I wasn't trying to be lazy, Your just more grammatically sound than i am.


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## freyar (Jan 14, 2013)

How about Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 14?


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## Nookie (Jan 14, 2013)

Sure that sounds to be about right I think in the mental stat department.


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## Cleon (Jan 14, 2013)

Nookie said:


> freyar said:
> 
> 
> > How about Int 11, Wis 14, Cha 14?
> ...




Fey tend to have lower Wisdom than Charisma, so I'd be inclined to tweak them to become uneven.

If we want to keep the bonuses the same, that'd suggest Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 15.


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## Cleon (Jan 14, 2013)

freyar said:


> Rather than having the spears/quills carry poison, I was thinking they could be magical, like a pixie's sleep arrows.  So I pretty much like Nookie's draft of that ability.




Actually, a 3E Pixie's special arrows are Extraordinary, not magical. But that's just weird.

I don't much care for the on/off _hypnotism_ shortspear mechanism. That spell is quite messy in its effects. I'd rather something like this:

*Special Quills*
Urdlings sometimes employ shortspears that deal no damage but can but a creature into a trance.

_Trance:_ An opponent struck by this quill must succeed on a DC X Will save or become fascinated with a random object within 30 ft. The target stares raptly at the object of its interest for 2d4 rounds or the fascination effect is broken. The save DC is Charisma-based and includes a +Y racial bonus.



freyar said:


> I would probably also combine the spore abilities into one, and I'm ok with making those poison.




We'd better rough something out, then.


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## freyar (Jan 15, 2013)

That seems pretty good, but I'd like to add the (Su) to it.  I also think the target should maybe get a new save if attacked.


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## Cleon (Jan 15, 2013)

freyar said:


> That seems pretty good, but I'd like to add the (Su) to it.  I also think the target should maybe get a new save if attacked.




I have no objections to (Su) if it's OK with Nookie.


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## Nookie (Jan 15, 2013)

sounds good to me.  also thanks for making the working draft Cleon


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## freyar (Jan 16, 2013)

Spores (Ex? Su?): As a standard action, a shroomling can release a cloud of spores. These spores come in several different varieties, as described below. Each type of spore can be used a number of times per day equal to the shroomling’s Hit Dice. Spores can be released either in a 120-foot spread or as a 40-foot ray against a single target, as noted in the individual spore descriptions.
Pesticide -
Goodberry - X berries within range become _goodberries_, as the spell.
....


I'm not so sure about the mechanic for the pesticide as given above.  I think I'd just make a poison that works only against vermin.  We could put the sickening effect into a different kind of spore.


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## Nookie (Jan 16, 2013)

freyar said:


> Spores (Ex? Su?): As a standard action, a shroomling can release a cloud of spores. These spores come in several different varieties, as described below. Each type of spore can be used a number of times per day equal to the shroomling’s Hit Dice. Spores can be released either in a 120-foot spread or as a 40-foot ray against a single target, as noted in the individual spore descriptions.
> Pesticide -
> Goodberry - X berries within range become _goodberries_, as the spell.
> ....
> ...




Ok we can seperate the spores. Thats fine by me. lets make them EX abilities. each useable a number of times per day equal to the shroomlings hitdice.


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## Cleon (Jan 17, 2013)

freyar said:


> That seems pretty good, but I'd like to add the (Su) to it.  I also think the target should maybe get a new save if attacked.




That's more than covered by the RAW on being *Fascinated*:



			
				Condition Summary said:
			
		

> *Fascinated
> *A fascinated creature is entranced by a supernatural or spell effect. The creature stands or sits quietly, taking no actions other than to pay attention to the fascinating effect, for as long as the effect lasts. It takes a -4 penalty on skill checks made as reactions, such as Listen and Spot checks. Any potential threat, such as a hostile creature approaching, allows the fascinated creature a new saving throw against the fascinating effect. Any obvious threat, such as someone drawing a weapon, casting a spell, or aiming a ranged weapon at the fascinated creature, automatically breaks the effect. A fascinated creature’s ally may shake it free of the spell as a standard action.




Hmm "a supernatural or spell effect" eh. Sounds like the RAW wants to make the Quills (Su) as well.

I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Cleon (Jan 17, 2013)

freyar said:


> Spores (Ex? Su?): As a standard action, a shroomling can release a cloud of spores. These spores come in several different varieties, as described below. Each type of spore can be used a number of times per day equal to the shroomling’s Hit Dice.




I don't think we should make the usages per day HD based, since the Shroomlings only have 1 racial HD, and that's half size. It'd be better to make it a fixed number or stat based. For example, "1 plus Con modifier (minimum 1)".



freyar said:


> Spores can be released either in a 120-foot spread or as a 40-foot ray  against a single target, as noted in the individual spore descriptions.




A shroomling's a lot smaller than a Myconid, so I'm not sure it should have the same ranges. I think we'd be better off replacing this text with "Spores can be released either in a spread or as a ray  against a single target, as noted in the individual spore descriptions, the range depends on the type of spore."



freyar said:


> Pesticide - *SNIP*
> 
> I'm not so sure about the mechanic for the pesticide as given above.  I think I'd just make a poison that works only against vermin.  We could put the sickening effect into a different kind of spore.




How about the Pesticide spores are little more than an irritant to non-vermin and also cause damage to Vermin. e.g. they dazzle or sicken living creatures for a few rounds, and in addition do Con damage to Vermin?



freyar said:


> Goodberry - X berries within range become _goodberries_, as the spell.
> ....




I was thinking more something like.


 _Magic Mushrooms No 1_ - 1d4 mushrooms within a 5 ft. spread become supernaturally nutritious. This works like the _goodberry_ spell except it targets mushrooms instead of berries. The mushrooms do not lose any of their normal properties (e.g. a poisonous toadstool is still poisonous). 
_Magic Mushrooms No 2_ - 5 ft. spread. 1d4 mushrooms spring any rich soil within the spread. These mushrooms are highly nutritious and have mild healing properties, identical to berries transmuted by a _goodberry_  spell (caster level X). e.g. a magic mushroom is a normal meal's worth of nourishment for a Medium creature and also cures 1 point of damage when eaten, subject to a maximum of 8 points of such curing in any 24-hour  period.


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## Cleon (Jan 17, 2013)

Oh, and how about giving the Shroomling a few of the Myconids Spore abilities, such as:



			
				Monster Manual II Myconid said:
			
		

> _
> Distress: _These spores alert all other myconids within the area that danger is near. They are released in a 120-foot spread.
> 
> _Rapport:_ Myconids do not speak, but these spores enable them to establish telepathic communication with each other and with outsiders. A successful Fortitude saving throw (DC varies; see individual descriptions) negates the effect, but it is harmless. Rapport lasts for 30 to 60 minutes with outsiders, but for 8 hours with other myconids. Rapport spores can be released as either a 120-foot spread or a 40-foot ray. Regardless of the release area, the communication range is 120 feet once rapport is established.


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## Cleon (Jan 17, 2013)

Is everyone OK with Int 10, Wis 14, Cha 15 for the mental stats?


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## freyar (Jan 17, 2013)

Heh, I like magic mushrooms #2.

Those mental stats are ok.

I'd be ok with the Distress spores if we can add some kind of mechanical benefit.  Maybe something like "if one is aware of danger, all in range are" or something.  But I don't like Rapport, since I'd prefer these to speak.


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## Nookie (Jan 18, 2013)

Shroomlings have mouths so lets let them talk 

Mental stats look good to me.

Shroom number 2 looks slightly more appealing to me.


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## Cleon (Jan 18, 2013)

freyar said:


> Heh, I like magic mushrooms #2.
> 
> Those mental stats are ok.
> 
> ...




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft* with Magic Mushrooms and Mental Abilities.


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## Cleon (Jan 18, 2013)

freyar said:


> Heh, I like magic mushrooms #2.
> 
> Those mental stats are ok.
> 
> I'd be ok with the Distress spores if we can add some kind of mechanical benefit.  Maybe something like "if one is aware of danger, all in range are" or something.  But I don't like Rapport, since I'd prefer these to speak.




Hmm, I can see it being some combination of _alarm_ and _message_. Should be able to whip out an outline soon.


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## Nookie (Jan 20, 2013)

I like the "If one is aware of danger thingy* But should that be one per day or constant?


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## freyar (Jan 20, 2013)

Why not borrow from hive mind?



			
				SRD formian said:
			
		

> Hive Mind (Ex): All formians within 50 miles of their queen are in constant communication. If one is aware of a particular danger, they all are. If one in a group is not flatfooted, none of them are. No formian in a group is considered flanked unless all of them are.




Distress - At will, a shroomling can emit spores that inform all other shroomlings in range of danger.  If the spore-emitting shroomling is aware of a particular danger, they all are. If the spore-emitting shroomling is not flatfooted, none of them are.


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## Nookie (Jan 21, 2013)

at what range? like 50 ft?


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## Cleon (Jan 21, 2013)

Nookie said:


> at what range? like 50 ft?




Well a Myconid's Distress spores expand to 40 ft. in the first round, so I'd use that.


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## freyar (Jan 22, 2013)

40 ft range for all the spores?


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## Nookie (Jan 22, 2013)

okeydokey 40 works too.


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## Cleon (Jan 28, 2013)

freyar said:


> 40 ft range for all the spores?




I'm happy using 40 ft. as the "standard range" for its spores, but will reserve the option to use different ranges for individual cases.

Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

We need to settle on the uses per day of the spores and the effective CL of the "goodmushrooms".

The "Pesticide Spores" still needs an entry.

Since we're giving them speech, they need languages, so I gave them Common, Terran and Sylvan as a placeholder.


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## freyar (Jan 28, 2013)

I'd be fine with those languages.  

As for use per day, I think each kind should have its own.  Distress is at will, for example.


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## Nookie (Jan 28, 2013)

I just noticed something under the Quills ability

Urdin shroomlings sometimes employ shortspears that deal *no damage* but can but a creature into a trance.

I think they should have the option to do some damage Probably just 1 point. it makes them sound like they have no offense.

barring that They do have kitty faces so maybe a bite attack?

I do like the 1 + con uses per day. makes them a little different than a myconid.


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## Cleon (Jan 28, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I just noticed something under the Quills ability
> 
> Urdin shroomlings sometimes employ shortspears that deal *no damage* but can but a creature into a trance.
> 
> I think they should have the option to do some damage Probably just 1 point. it makes them sound like they have no offense.




A pixie's Sleep Arrows do no damage, and we'd agreed to model the Trance Quills on those.

We are going to give them a regular weapon (shortspears or spears, I presume).

If you and Freyar would rather give 'em damaging Trance Quills I'd go along with it.



Nookie said:


> barring that They do have kitty faces so maybe a bite attack?




I'd rather give 'em a weapon.



Nookie said:


> I do like the 1 + con uses per day. makes them a little different than a myconid.




Yes, that's my preference of the two proposals.


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## Nookie (Jan 28, 2013)

ok weapons work for me. shortspears i think sound good.


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## freyar (Jan 29, 2013)

I definitely agree on the shortspears.

I'm not quite sure how the distress spores will work if we have a limited number of uses per day.  Maybe it has a duration?


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## Nookie (Jan 29, 2013)

Oops i was talking about the other spores being used Finite time the distress spores would be constant.


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## Cleon (Jan 29, 2013)

freyar said:


> I definitely agree on the shortspears.




Let's see, with Strength 4 a Shroomling does 1d3-3/×3 with a Tiny Spear, or 1d2-3/×2 with a Tiny Shortspear.

That's 1 point of damage either way whether or not it Crits, so it makes no difference apart from weight.

Might as well be a Shortspear, then.



freyar said:


> I'm not quite sure how the distress spores will work if we have a limited number of uses per day.  Maybe it has a duration?




I was thinking of incorporating some of the text from _alarm_ into the Distress Spores. I'd prefer to limit the uses, and it's simpler if we use the same number-per-day for all of them. Furthermore, I was thinking we might make it an immediate action or swift action instead of a standard action.

e.g.:

*Spores (Su?)*
Shroomling can produce several different varieties of spores, as described below. Unless otherwise stated, releasing a cloud of spores is a standard action. Each type of spore can be used a number of times per day equal to 1 plus the shroomling's Con modifier (minimum 1). Spores can be released either in a spread or as a ray against a single target, as noted in the individual spore descriptions, the range depends on the type of spore.

_Distress:_ As an immediate action, a shroomling can emit a 40 ft. spread of spores that inform all other shroomlings in range of danger. Distress spores will instantly awaken shroomlings from sleep (normal or magical) but do not otherwise disturb concentration. They will not awaken an unconscious shroomling. If the spore-emitting shroomling is aware of a particular danger, all other shroomling with range are also aware of it. If the spore-emitting shroomling is not flatfooted against an opponent, none of the other shroomlings are. The effects of distress spores only last for 1 round.


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## Nookie (Jan 30, 2013)

That works for me.


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## freyar (Jan 30, 2013)

Sure that works for me.  Do we have any other spores ready?


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## Nookie (Jan 30, 2013)

freyar said:


> Sure that works for me.  Do we have any other spores ready?




Poison Spores
Goodberry spores
Distress spores


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## Cleon (Jan 31, 2013)

Nookie said:


> That works for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft* with shortspears and revised spores.



Nookie said:


> Poison Spores
> Goodberry spores
> Distress spores




The first two have become "Magic Mushrooms" and "Pesticide" spores in the working draft.

The Magic Mushrooms spores are finished apart from a caster level equivalency, but we haven't started on the Pesticide spores yet.

I was thinking we could have it do _nauseated_ plus damage to Vermin, but just sickened to other living creatures.


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## Cleon (Jan 31, 2013)

How about adding a combat option to the Special Quills? The AD&D  pixie had war arrows (that did 1d4+1 damage) and sleep arrows (although  what those did is lost in the mists of time ).

I'm thinking we could give 'em "Venom Quills" that do poison-like damage.


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## Nookie (Jan 31, 2013)

Hmm that would be fun. maybe they can spore on their spears or something. Or even halucinations perhapse as a variant ability a sort of magic mushroomling.


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## freyar (Jan 31, 2013)

I like the venom quills.

How's this for pesticide?  (I note that we should list ray spores in the attack line as a ranged attack.)
Pesticide - Shroomlings release these spores as a 60 ft ray attack.  Non-vermin creatures hit by the attack are sickened for X rounds; vermin are instead nauseated for X rounds and take 1 point Con damage.


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## Nookie (Jan 31, 2013)

Sounds good. But i think it would be more interesting if it were more effective on Swarms as well. Maybe because more of the bugs are getting poisoned or something like that.


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## freyar (Feb 1, 2013)

Well, if it's a vermin swarm, it would take the Con damage, right?  I'm not sure I'd want to make it quite so fiddly.


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## Nookie (Feb 1, 2013)

freyar said:


> Well, if it's a vermin swarm, it would take the Con damage, right?  I'm not sure I'd want to make it quite so fiddly.




I meant vermine swarms >.> I dont know it is just a thought. I thought their fey nature nitch could be exterminator.


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## Cleon (Feb 1, 2013)

freyar said:


> Well, if it's a vermin swarm, it would take the Con damage, right?  I'm not sure I'd want to make it quite so fiddly.




Methinks the problem might be you're suggestion looked like a single target attack, and those don't work on Swarms (since killing a single bug among thousands makes no real difference).

I was thinking it'd be an area effect attack, probably a burst from the Myconid. Although we could make it a ranged burst. Something like a "puffball" that can be projected 40 ft., then explodes in a 10 ft. burst?

That'd solve the "deadlier against swarms" problems as AoE attacks do double damage against swarms if I remember the rules rightly.

Hmm... maybe we could kill two vermin with one special attack and make the "Venom Quills" an exploding pesticide bomb?

Nah, I like the poison version better, 'though we could make them more effective against Vermin.

How's this:

*Spores (Su)*
_Pesticide:_ As a standard action, a shroomling can spit out a puff of spores with a range of 40 ft. which explodes in a 10 ft. burst. All creatures within the burst must succeed at a DC X Fortitude save or be nauseated for 1 round (?) and then sickened for 1d4 rounds (?). These spores do 3d6 damage (?) to any Vermin within the burst, or 6d6 to any swarm of Vermin. The damage is halved if the Vermin succeed at the Fortitude save.

*Quills*
_Venom:_ A venom quill does normal shortspear damage and transmits a nasty poison (injury, DC X Fortitude save, initial and secondary damage 1d3 Con, or 1d6 Con if the target is a Vermin). This venom is supernaturally fast, so the secondary damage takes effect after 1 round, not the 1 minute delay of normal poison.


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## Cleon (Feb 1, 2013)

Cleon said:


> That'd solve the "deadlier against swarms" problems as AoE attacks do double damage against swarms if I remember the rules rightly.




Odd, swarms don't take double damage from AoE in the SRD. I wonder where I got that from?...

...Ah, of course, it's from the 3.0 version of the Swarm:

*3E Fiend Folio:* "A swarm takes a –10 penalty on saving throws against spells or effects that affect an area, such as many evocation spells or grenadelike weapons. If the area attack does not allow a saving throw, a swarm takes double damage instead."


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## Nookie (Feb 1, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Methinks the problem might be you're suggestion looked like a single target attack, and those don't work on Swarms (since killing a single bug among thousands makes no real difference).
> 
> I was thinking it'd be an area effect attack, probably a burst from the Myconid. Although we could make it a ranged burst. Something like a "puffball" that can be projected 40 ft., then explodes in a 10 ft. burst?
> 
> ...




Looks good to me.


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## Cleon (Feb 2, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Looks good to me.




Me too, but let's see what Freyar thinks before adding it to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

Shall we make the Venom's save DC Charisma-based with a racial bonus like the Trance Quills save DC?

We should specify that poison resistance is effective against the Pesticide.

e.g.:

*Spores (Su)*
_Pesticide:_ As a standard action, a shroomling can spit out a puff  of spores with a range of 40 ft. which explodes in a 10 ft. burst. All  creatures within the burst must succeed at a DC X Fortitude save or be  nauseated for 1 round and then sickened for 1d4 rounds. In addition, the spores do 3d6 damage  to any Vermin within the burst, or 6d6 to any swarm of Vermin. The  damage is halved if the Vermin succeed at the Fortitude save. Pesticide spores are treated as a poison attack by creatures with immunity or resistance to poison.

*Quills (Su)*
_Venom:_ A venom quill does normal shortspear damage and transmits a  nasty poison (injury, DC X Fortitude save, initial and secondary damage  1d3 Con, or 1d6 Con if the target is a Vermin). This venom is  supernaturally fast, so the secondary damage takes effect after 1 round,  not the 1 minute delay of standard poison. The save DC is Charisma-based and  includes a +Y racial bonus.


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## Cleon (Feb 2, 2013)

Cleon said:


> _Venom:_ A venom quill does normal shortspear damage and transmits a   nasty poison (injury, DC X Fortitude save, initial and secondary  damage  1d3 Con, or 1d6 Con if the target is a Vermin). This venom is   supernaturally fast, so the secondary damage takes effect after 1 round,   not the 1 minute delay of standard poison. The save DC is Charisma-based and  includes a +*Y* racial bonus.




We should decide on this racial bonus. Is it +2 like a Pixie's Special Arrows?

The Spores also need a save DC. How about Constitution-based with a +2 racial bonus?


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## Nookie (Feb 2, 2013)

+2 sounds reasonable.


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## freyar (Feb 3, 2013)

The save DC bonus as you suggest is fine.  

But I'm not fond of the damage level of the venom quills or pesticide spores.  These are 1/2 HD critters, after all!  I'd cut the venom quills damage to 1 Con/1 Con (1d3/1d3 vs vermin) and the pesticide down to only sickened for non-vermin.  I also don't like the fiddliness of swarm vs non-swarm damage, so I'd probably just stick with 2d6 or maybe 3d6 hp vs all vermin.  6d6 is way too much for this critter, I think.


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## Nookie (Feb 3, 2013)

Ill concede the 6d6 damage as being a bit high. 3d6 is good damage for a low level gimmick power that would hardly ever effect a player anyway. 

As for the poison quills I Think 1d2 con for non vermin is good its similar to the similarly powered (guesstimate) small scorpion. against vermin i would say d4.


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## Cleon (Feb 4, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Ill concede the 6d6 damage as being a bit high. 3d6 is good damage for a low level gimmick power that would hardly ever effect a player anyway.
> 
> As for the poison quills I Think 1d2 con for non vermin is good its similar to the similarly powered (guesstimate) small scorpion. against vermin i would say d4.




Yes, I got a bit carried away.

So how about 2d6 damage for the Spores (3d6 vs Swarms) and 1d2 Con for the Quills (1d4 for Vermin)?


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## Nookie (Feb 4, 2013)

thats a good compromise. Sense these are sort of mychonidish should there be a "papa" Shroomling?


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## Cleon (Feb 4, 2013)

Nookie said:


> thats a good compromise.




Take two of "Me too, but let's see what Freyar thinks before adding it to the *Shroomling Working Draft*."



Nookie said:


> Sense these are sort of mychonidish should there be a "papa" Shroomling?




What, like an "Elder" with a few SLAs and Craft (potion)? I'm game if you are.


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## Nookie (Feb 4, 2013)

yeah but a little different so we arent just makeing chibi mychonids.


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## Cleon (Feb 4, 2013)

Nookie said:


> yeah but a little different so we arent just makeing chibi mychonids.




What, you mean we _aren't_ just making Chibi Myconids?


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## Nookie (Feb 4, 2013)

Oh i know. Im just saying papa shroom should have different ability's than papa mychonid. It sounded like you wanted to do craft potion and slas like an elder michonid.


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## Cleon (Feb 4, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Oh i know. Im just saying papa shroom should have different ability's than papa mychonid. It sounded like you wanted to do craft potion and slas like an elder michonid.




Erm, Myconid Kings (aka Sovereigns) don't get Spell-Like Abilities.


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## Nookie (Feb 4, 2013)

i thought they did so they can make use of their craft potion.


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## Cleon (Feb 4, 2013)

Nookie said:


> i thought they did so they can make use of their craft potion.




Yes, their Potion Making special ability can create an "effect" that counts as a spell for the purpose of creating a potion.

I don't think that's a SLA, though, since it can't cast actually the spell and Potion Making is a (Su) ability rather than (Sp). It's just an ability to satisfying the requirements to Craft a magic item.

Come to think of it, it's odd that the King of the Mushroom People can create these potion-prereq effects one/day for each "spell" it wishes to brew, since _brewing a potion requires one day_. What's the point of the other ones when it can only use one per day? Well, unless it's circumventing the crafting times by using a Dedicated Wright or something.


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## Nookie (Feb 5, 2013)

I recall there being a Pr class or something that lets you brew two potions per day. maybe the language was there for that purpose?

ANyway Lets think more about papa shroomling after we finish the basic one.


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## Cleon (Feb 5, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I recall there being a Pr class or something that lets you brew two potions per day. maybe the language was there for that purpose?
> 
> ANyway Lets think more about papa shroomling after we finish the basic one.




Yes, there's no hurry. We haven't even decided whether we'll have an "Elder", and we can leave it 'til after we finish the standard version.

The big argument would be whether he has a beard and red cap, of course.


----------



## freyar (Feb 5, 2013)

If you go back a few posts, there was a mention of asking if I agreed to the new Con and hp damage for venom quills and pesticide spores.  The answer is yes.   Any other kinds of spores?


----------



## Cleon (Feb 5, 2013)

freyar said:


> If you go back a few posts, there was a mention of asking if I agreed to the new Con and hp damage for venom quills and pesticide spores.




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

I cut out the round of nausea effect, since you disapproved of it.



freyar said:


> Any other kinds of spores?




I was wondering about Reproductive Spores, but we could restrict those to a "Papa Shroom" if we decide to use that.


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## freyar (Feb 5, 2013)

Yeah, I guess we have enough.  I'm thinking we should make the pesticide DC Con-based.  I'd also set the magic mushroom CL at 1st.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 5, 2013)

freyar said:


> Yeah, I guess we have enough.  I'm thinking we should make the pesticide DC Con-based.  I'd also set the magic mushroom CL at 1st.




Oddly, the _Monster Manual II_ third edition Myconid doesn't specify what ability governs the Spores' save DC, although the numbers match up to Con-based except for the Sovereign, who's DC is 1 too low (which means it doesn't match up with _any_ of its abilities).

The _Dragon 292_ Myconid has Spore DCs that all match up to Con-based _except_ for its Rapport Spores, which are specifically 10 + Cha bonus.

Anyhows, Con-based is OK by me, but I'll wait for Nookie to pitch in before updating the Draft.


----------



## Nookie (Feb 5, 2013)

Well the elder Shroomling could be called The Gorri Shroomling (gorri being the Basq word for red where as Urdin is the word for blue)


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## Cleon (Feb 5, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Well the elder Shroomling could be called The  Gorri Shroomling (gorri being the Basq word for red where as Urdin is  the word for blue)




Works for me!


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## Nookie (Feb 5, 2013)

Cool. anyway. Is it about time for skills and feats?

Should get one feat: I was thinking Improved inish.


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## Cleon (Feb 5, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Cool. anyway. Is it about time for skills and feats?




Are you OK with Con-based Spores?



Nookie said:


> Should get one feat: I was thinking Improved inish.




That doesn't seem to give it much "bang for the buck".

It should get Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat too.

Maybe Weapon Focus (shortspear)?


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## Nookie (Feb 5, 2013)

I think Cha is good for the spores cause they seem very magical in nature. I was kinda figuring they would mostly concentrate on ranged throwing being squishey little shroomlings so i say Weapon focus is more desireable than Finesse.


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## Cleon (Feb 6, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I think Cha is good for the spores cause they seem very magical in nature.




A 3E Myconid's Spores appear to be Con-based, but they're also (Ex).

Since a Shroomling's are (Su) I'd be OK with using Cha-, but I fancied Con just so it's different from the Quills. It's only the _Pesticide_ spores that require a save DC, and those are pretty poison-like, which is normally a Constitution-based power ('cept when it ain't).



Nookie said:


> I was kinda figuring they would mostly  concentrate on ranged throwing being squishey little shroomlings so i  say Weapon focus is more desireable than Finesse.




Little creatures generally get Finesse for free, so we might as well give 'em both.

Besides, I'd already included the Finesse bonus in the Working Draft's Attack line a week ago and no one complained.


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## Nookie (Feb 6, 2013)

Well if its free than im ok with it


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## Cleon (Feb 6, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Well if its free than im ok with it




Well I guess it's now "_*Wait To See What Freyar Thinks Part III - The Feats Fight Back!*_"


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## freyar (Feb 7, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Well the elder Shroomling could be called The Gorri Shroomling (gorri being the Basq word for red where as Urdin is the word for blue)




Wouldn't that make the elder's skin red, not it's clothes?



Cleon said:


> A 3E Myconid's Spores appear to be Con-based, but they're also (Ex).
> 
> Since a Shroomling's are (Su) I'd be OK with using Cha-, but I fancied Con just so it's different from the Quills. It's only the _Pesticide_ spores that require a save DC, and those are pretty poison-like, which is normally a Constitution-based power ('cept when it ain't).



You know what, I think I've changed my mind.  These are fey, so it would make sense to make all the DCs Cha-based.  Plus that boosts the DC a little. 



> Little creatures generally get Finesse for free, so we might as well give 'em both.
> 
> Besides, I'd already included the Finesse bonus in the Working Draft's Attack line a week ago and no one complained.




Weapon Finesse (b) and Weapon Focus (shortspear) work for me.


----------



## Nookie (Feb 8, 2013)

Ok than feats appear to be done. So now for some skills. Looks like 24 skillpoints.


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## freyar (Feb 8, 2013)

Spot, Listen, Hide, and Move Silently seem important.  Survival?  Knowledge (nature)?


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## Nookie (Feb 8, 2013)

freyar said:


> Wouldn't that make the elder's skin red, not it's clothes?




Maybe the white parts turn gradually red?



freyar said:


> Spot, Listen, Hide, and Move Silently seem important.  Survival?  Knowledge (nature)




Those all seem like reasonable choices.

24 skill points spread evenly.

Spot 6, Listen 6, Hide +21, Move Silently +21,  Survival 6?  Knowledge (nature) 4

Also i was thinking that sense there is that "new monster" Tab that seems to be broken and in disuse on the creature catalog than we could put these "stat this up" entries in there.

Thoughts?


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## freyar (Feb 8, 2013)

Hmm, I guess you're right, the white parts are part of their skin still, huh.

Did you put 4 ranks in each skill then look at the total bonus?  I'm not sure about your skill line there.

Unfortunately, the "New Monster" link is just a link to an external site, which has been defunct for a long time (I'm not sure I've ever gotten it to load).  And we don't have any way to edit that part of the CC homepage at the moment even if we wanted to redirect it.  I'm afraid our shroomling will have to languish here in the forum.  If we do a few new ones, I could always make a PDF of them and host them on my home page.  That reminds me, I have a conversion or two I should really finish (that have been "paused" since about 2009).


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## Nookie (Feb 8, 2013)

freyar said:


> Hmm, I guess you're right, the white parts are part of their skin still, huh.
> 
> Did you put 4 ranks in each skill then look at the total bonus?  I'm not sure about your skill line there.
> 
> Unfortunately, the "New Monster" link is just a link to an external site, which has been defunct for a long time (I'm not sure I've ever gotten it to load).  And we don't have any way to edit that part of the CC homepage at the moment even if we wanted to redirect it.  I'm afraid our shroomling will have to languish here in the forum.  If we do a few new ones, I could always make a PDF of them and host them on my home page.  That reminds me, I have a conversion or two I should really finish (that have been "paused" since about 2009).




Well i maxed out the skills you suggested because they seemed to fit well and there was exactly enough points to max all them out. Unless im mistake fractional HD still count as 1 HD for skill points right?


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## Cleon (Feb 9, 2013)

freyar said:


> You know what, I think I've changed my mind.  These are fey, so it would make sense to make all the DCs Cha-based.  Plus that boosts the DC a little.




Very well, I don't mind a point higher DC for them. 

Freyar wanted CL 1st for the "Magic Mushrooms", but I was thinking higher. Maybe 3rd?



freyar said:


> Weapon Finesse (b) and Weapon Focus (shortspear) work for me.




Seems we're agreed then. I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 9, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Maybe the white parts turn gradually red?




That's what I was thinking, yes. Their head develops red spots, eventually becoming red with white spots or all red.



Nookie said:


> Those all seem like reasonable choices.
> 
> 24 skill points spread evenly.
> 
> Spot 6, Listen 6, Hide +21, Move Silently +21,  Survival 6?  Knowledge (nature) 4




4 ranks in Hide and Move Silently would give it Hide +20, Move Silently +8, not the numbers you give above. Size mods only apply to Hide, not MS.

+20 also seems a bit high. I'd be fine with +18, like the SRD Grig. I'd also suggest a racial bonus to Move Silently in forests like a Grig has.

Speaking of racial bonuses, Sprites get +2 to Listen, Search and Spot - fancy the same for out shroomling?

I'm not sure they need the Survival, since none of the Sprites in the SRD have it. Tumble would be a lot more useful in combat.

How about changing moving 4 SPs from Survival to Tumble and 2 SPs from Hide to Survival?

That'd end up:

*Skills:* Knowledge (nature) +4, Hide +18, Listen +6, Move Silently +8*,  Spot +6, Survival +4, Tumble +8

*Shroomlings have a +X racial bonus on Move Silently checks in a forest setting.​
If we give it a Sprites racial bonuses, it becomes:

*Skills:* Knowledge (nature) +4, Hide +18, Listen +8, Move Silently +8*, Search +2, Spot +8, Survival +4, Tumble +8

Shroomlings have a +2 racial bonus on Search, Spot, and Listen checks.

*Shroomlings have a +X racial bonus on Move Silently checks in a forest setting.​
What do you think?


----------



## Nookie (Feb 9, 2013)

That seems reasonable and more varied i would like 1 rank in survival for no other reason they look like little rangers. But i guess that's a matter of personal taste.


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## Cleon (Feb 9, 2013)

Nookie said:


> That seems reasonable and more varied i would like 1 rank in survival for no other reason they look like little rangers. But i guess that's a matter of personal taste.




Er, my proposal has 2 ranks in Survival. Do you want to cut a rank and put the SP in something else?


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## Nookie (Feb 9, 2013)

sorry im a bit fluistered today. i prefer the one with survival. and the skill rank bonus from sprites seems alright too.


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## Cleon (Feb 9, 2013)

Nookie said:


> sorry im a bit fluistered today. i prefer the one with survival. and the skill rank bonus from sprites seems alright too.




In that case it's _*Wait To See What Freyar Thinks Part IV - This Time With Feeling!*_


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## freyar (Feb 11, 2013)

I like the skill proposed in post 124 well enough, and I don't think I'd bother with the sprites' racial bonuses.  They aren't sprites after all!  But I'd give them a +4 Move Silently bonus in forests.


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## Cleon (Feb 11, 2013)

freyar said:


> I like the skill proposed in post 124 well enough, and I don't think I'd bother with the sprites' racial bonuses.  They aren't sprites after all!  But I'd give them a +4 Move Silently bonus in forests.




I've updated the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Nookie (Feb 11, 2013)

That makes it time for flavor  Or do we want to do "papa" shroomling before we do fluff?


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## Cleon (Feb 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> That makes it time for flavor  Or do we want to do "papa" shroomling before we do fluff?




We've still got a lot of Xs at the end of the statblock and one in DR X/cold iron:

*Special Qualities:* DR X/cold iron
*Environment:* X
*Organization:* X
*Challenge Rating:* X
*Treasure:* X
*Alignment:* X
*Advancement:* X
*Level Adjustment:* X


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## Nookie (Feb 11, 2013)

I dont think they need any DR.
*Special Qualities:* DR X/cold iron
*Environment:* forest caves (anywhere a shroom could grow)
*Organization:* Solitary, hunting party 3-12 or swarm.
*Challenge Rating:*  looks like around cr 1/2 or 1
*Treasure:* None
*Alignment:* Neutral (maybe CN)
*Advancement:* By class
*Level Adjustment:* +2 (?)


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2013)

Given the HD, DR probably isn't necessary.  But DR 1 to DR 5 wouldn't be out of line, either.

I'd probably go with CR 1.  The spores and quills aren't negligible.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 12, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I dont think they need any DR.
> 
> *Special Qualities:* DR X/cold iron




I was thinking DR 5/cold iron, just to give them some chance of surviving long enough to use their special attacks.



Nookie said:


> *Environment:* forest caves (anywhere a shroom could grow)




That should be "Any forest or underground" to follow standard protocols.



Nookie said:


> *Organization:* Solitary, hunting party 3-12 or swarm.




Not sure about calling the larger group a "swarm". I'd go for "ring" or "circle" to play off their resemblance to mushrooms. We should also mention "Papa shroom" in the largest group.



Nookie said:


> *Challenge Rating:*  looks like around cr 1/2 or 1




Their special abilities make 'em worth CR 1 I'd say.



Nookie said:


> *Treasure:* None




Not so sure about this, I could easily see them having goods & items. Let me mull it over.



Nookie said:


> *Alignment:* Neutral (maybe CN)




Either of those would do.



Nookie said:


> *Advancement:* By class




That's fine by me.



Nookie said:


> *Level Adjustment:* +2 (?)




Hmm, I'll have to think about this. I suspect the Shroomling would work very well at certain classes (e.g. druid or sorcerer) so needs a higher LA.


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## Cleon (Feb 12, 2013)

I've just realized they can't have Weapon Focus according to the RAW because it has a prerequisite of "base attack bonus +1".

So we either need something else for their feat or make Weapon Focus a bonus feat and the Finesse the regular feat.

I've corrected the *Shroomling Working Draft* assuming we go for the second option.

It also makes me fear how many other +0 BAB monsters we've given Weapon Focus to over the years...


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## freyar (Feb 13, 2013)

Let's go with DR 5 and call the largest group a circle.

I don't think we've made this feat mistake with too many critters, since we don't convert that many with +0 BAB.  But we should look out for it.  In any event, I'd rather keep Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, since that's pretty standard for little critters.  How about we replace Weapon Focus with Point Blank Shot?


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## Nookie (Feb 13, 2013)

PBS sounds good tome and im willing to go with dr 5/cold iron


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## Cleon (Feb 13, 2013)

freyar said:


> Let's go with DR 5 and call the largest group a circle.




We still need a number for the circle, how about:

*Organisation:* Solitary, hunting party (2-8), or circle (5-20 plus 1 gorri shroomling)



freyar said:


> I don't think we've made this feat mistake with too many critters, since we don't convert that many with +0 BAB.  But we should look out for it.  In any event, I'd rather keep Weapon Finesse as a bonus feat, since that's pretty standard for little critters.  How about we replace Weapon Focus with Point Blank Shot?




Well the +1 damage won't be much use since it has a -3 Strength Penalty, but it's still better than nothing.

Or we could give it something non-combat that's useful for living in the wild like Alertness, Run, Self-Sufficient, or Track.


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## Nookie (Feb 13, 2013)

Cleon said:


> We still need a number for the circle, how about:
> 
> *Organisation:* Solitary, hunting party (2-8), or circle (5-20 plus 1 gorri shroomling)
> 
> ...




Track sounds good sense they may need to track down those dispioling vermin.


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## Cleon (Feb 14, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Track sounds good sense they may need to track down those dispioling vermin.




Yeah, I like Track for them too.

Now let's follow Freyar's trail and find out what he thinks...


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## Cleon (Feb 14, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Track sounds good sense they may need to track down those dispioling vermin.



  Yeah, I like Track for them too.  Now let's follow Freyar's trail and find out what he thinks...


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## freyar (Feb 15, 2013)

Sure, Track is fine.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 15, 2013)

freyar said:


> Sure, Track is fine.




Hmm, I seem to have had a double post.

Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Nookie (Feb 15, 2013)

Ok i think that sums up the meat and tsters of the statblock. we need to think about "papa" Shroomling. Do we want todo a statblock or are we just gonna say "As shroomling But with X" Special abilities and "Often has levels of X" type thing? I can see a favored class being ranger or something like that.


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## Nookie (Feb 18, 2013)

I was thinking that a papa shroomling could have more choices with the spell spores than just good berry. Mostly utilitarian Functions as potions of cats grace Owls wisdom and maybe bark skin. 
or maybe if they have a caster level they can cast spells into their edible mushroom and be a potion of sorts., 

Papa shroomlings usually have levels of ranger or druid.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 18, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Ok i think that sums up the meat and tsters of the statblock. we need to think about "papa" Shroomling. Do we want todo a statblock or are we just gonna say "As shroomling But with X" Special abilities and "Often has levels of X" type thing? I can see a favored class being ranger or something like that.




Well I don't think "Papa" should be a half-HD creature like the regular Shroomling.

Maybe 3 HD or so?

Do we want "him" to be larger too?


----------



## Cleon (Feb 18, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I was thinking that a papa shroomling could have more choices with the spell spores than just good berry. Mostly utilitarian Functions as potions of cats grace Owls wisdom and maybe bark skin.
> or maybe if they have a caster level they can cast spells into their edible mushroom and be a potion of sorts.,
> 
> Papa shroomlings usually have levels of ranger or druid.




Hmm, I'd have to think about this.

Druid does seem apt, though.


----------



## Nookie (Feb 18, 2013)

well if a papa is just an older Shroomling than the fact they have "advancement by class" doesn't lend well to extra hit dice.

I guess at some point they might change into something different. in the case of papa shroomling.

They should have a few more abilities though.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 19, 2013)

Nookie said:


> well if a papa is just an older Shroomling than the fact they have "advancement by class" doesn't lend well to extra hit dice.
> 
> I guess at some point they might change into something different. in the case of papa shroomling.
> 
> They should have a few more abilities though.




Well we haven't finalized the Advancement, have we.

I'd be fine giving the basic version 1-3 HD (Tiny) like a Grig, then leave "classed" Shroomlings for exceptional specimens.


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## Nookie (Feb 19, 2013)

Ok taht works for me. So 3 hd shroomlings have a chance of becomming a papa?


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## Cleon (Feb 19, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Ok taht works for me. So 3 hd shroomlings have a chance of becomming a papa?




Well I'd think there'd be an element of age involved as well.

Anyhow, I think we'd better gather together the "Xs" we have so far:

*Special Qualities:* DR 5/cold iron, low-light vision
*Environment:* Any forest or underground
*Organization:* Solitary, hunting party (2-8), or circle (5-20 plus 1 gorri shroomling)
*Challenge Rating:* 1
*Treasure:* X *[*special goods & standard items?*]*
*Alignment:* Always neutral *[*_or _Always neutral, often chaotic?*]*
*Advancement:* 1-3 HD (Tiny)
*Level Adjustment:* +X?


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## Cleon (Feb 19, 2013)

Come to think of it, shouldn't we give it a special quality that powers that especially affect plant creatures work on shroomlings as if they were a plant?


----------



## freyar (Feb 24, 2013)

Why should powers that work on plants work on shroomlings?  They're fey.

And what do you mean by "special goods" in the proposed treasure?


----------



## Nookie (Feb 24, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Well I'd think there'd be an element of age involved as well.
> 
> Anyhow, I think we'd better gather together the "Xs" we have so far:
> 
> ...




I like Always neutral often chaotic.

And by special goods do you mean their poison quills?


----------



## freyar (Feb 27, 2013)

I'll agree on that alignment.

Anyway, how about no coins, standard goods, standard items?  Their size is the limiting factor, I guess.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 27, 2013)

freyar said:


> Why should powers that work on plants work on shroomlings?  They're fey.




I like the idea of them being miniscule mushroom people, which implies spells that affect mushrooms (which are considered plants in 3E) would work on them.


----------



## Cleon (Feb 27, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I like Always neutral often chaotic.




No objections to that.



freyar said:


> And what do you mean by "special goods" in the proposed treasure?






Nookie said:


> And by special goods do you mean their poison quills?




Quills, "good mushrooms", Papa's fungal unguents and so on.

Haven't quite decided yet.


----------



## Nookie (Feb 28, 2013)

Are we gonna make them "plant like" ? i can see them working either way.


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## freyar (Feb 28, 2013)

I'd rather not let plant-affecting things work on them as a further way of distinguishing them from myconids and other mushroom people.  But I guess we can negotiate. 

Can other critters use a pixie's special arrows?  They're not listed in a pixie's treasure...  Besides, shouldn't the quills, magic mushrooms, and the like be considered items since they're magical?


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## Cleon (Mar 3, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'd rather not let plant-affecting things work on them as a further way of distinguishing them from myconids and other mushroom people.  But I guess we can negotiate.




I'd be OK dropping the idea if no-one really fancies it. Maybe we could have a _few_ plant-affecting spells work on them - perhaps they register to _detect animals or plants_, take extra damage from _blight_ or _horrid wilting_ as if they were plants?

I thought about having them be affected by _diminish plants_ or _plant growth_, but those spells don't affect plant creatures in 3E.

How about giving them immunity to _entangle_ (including the entangle ability of an assassin vine)? Then they can use assassin vines as guardians or mobile homes!



freyar said:


> Can other critters use a pixie's special arrows?  They're not listed in a pixie's treasure...  Besides, shouldn't the quills, magic mushrooms, and the like be considered items since they're magical?




Yes, probably. I was thinking more of the magic mushrooms than the quills, since I don't think the quills would have special properties in non-Shroom hands.


----------



## freyar (Mar 4, 2013)

Immunity to entangle would work.

No coins, half goods, standard items and note that the items often include magic mushrooms?


----------



## Cleon (Mar 4, 2013)

freyar said:


> Immunity to entangle would work.




It would seem appropriate to give them *Woodland Stride* as well then, à la the Druid.



freyar said:


> No coins, half goods, standard items and note that the items often include magic mushrooms?




That'd work for me.


----------



## freyar (Mar 5, 2013)

Yes.  That might even be enough (ie, drop the immunity to magical entanglement), but I don't mind much either way.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 7, 2013)

freyar said:


> Yes.  That might even be enough (ie, drop the immunity to magical entanglement), but I don't mind much either way.




Let's see which Nookie prefers.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 7, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Let's see which Nookie prefers.




Oh, I was thinking it'll be immune to entangling plants, not ALL entanglement. I'm not sure whether tol make these separate SQs or not, e.g.

Separate:

*Freedom from Plants (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _entangle_).

*Woodland Stride (Ex):* A shroomling may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural  thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at their normal  speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect them. 

Combined:

*Woodland Freedom 1 (Ex):* A shroomling may move through  any sort of undergrowth (such as natural  thorns, briars, overgrown  areas, and similar terrain) at their normal  speed and without taking  damage or suffering any other impairment.  However, thorns, briars, and overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect them. Furthermore, a shroomling is  immune to entanglement by plants, including plant  monsters (such as an  assassin vine) or magic that cause plants to  entangle creatures, such  as the Druid spell _entangle_.

Combined and Augmented:

*Woodland Freedom 2 (Ex):* A shroomling may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural  thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at their normal  speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment.  Furthermore, a shroomling is immune to entanglement by plants, including plant  monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic that cause plants to  entangle creatures, such as the Druid spell _entangle_. Brush and overgrown areas that has been magically manipulated to impede movement does not affect a shroomling so long as the effect does no damage. However, plants that are magically manipulated to injure creatures, or damaging plant spells such as _wall of thorns_, do affect shroomlings normally, including impeding their movement.

A simpler but possibly more potent form would just crib off _freedom from movement_.

*Woodland Freedom 3 (Su):* This works like the _freedom of movement_ spell, but only against effects that are plant-based (such as natural  thorns, plant monsters, or plant-based magic like the Druid spell _entangle_). Note that while this allows a shroomling to move normally through a _wall of thorns_, they will still take damage.


----------



## freyar (Mar 8, 2013)

I think I prefer the separated version, just so one of the abilities matches something familiar.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 10, 2013)

freyar said:


> I think I prefer the separated version, just so one of the abilities matches something familiar.




Yeah, but if we're giving them immunity to plant entanglement we should still modify the Woodland Stride a bit, shouldn't we, since doesn't an _entangle_ spell create "overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion".

e.g.:

*Freedom from Plants (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement  by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic  that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _entangle_).

plus either "as druid plus note":

*Woodland Stride 1 (Ex):* A shroomling may move through any sort of  undergrowth (such as natural  thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and  similar terrain) at their normal  speed and without taking damage or  suffering any other impairment. However, thorns, briars, and overgrown  areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion still affect  them (provided it is not an entanglement effect, which shroomlings are immune to).

Or "as druid with modified impediment text":

*Woodland Stride 2 (Ex):* A shroomling may move through any sort of  undergrowth (such as natural  thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and  similar terrain) at their normal  speed and without taking damage or  suffering any other impairment. Brush and overgrown areas that has been magically manipulated to impede  movement does not affect a shroomling so long as the effect does no  damage. However, plants that are magically manipulated to injure  creatures, or damaging plant spells such as _wall of thorns_, do affect shroomlings normally, including impeding their movement.


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## freyar (Mar 11, 2013)

I'm terribly confused.  There isn't a need for the extra note.  Woodland Stride clearly says they are affected by magically created impeded movement, and Freedom from Plants doesn't say they aren't.  So they're affected. 

Unless you're arguing for one of the augmented versions.


----------



## Cleon (Mar 15, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'm terribly confused.  There isn't a need for the extra note.  Woodland Stride clearly says they are affected by magically created impeded movement, and Freedom from Plants doesn't say they aren't.  So they're affected.




Creatures entangled by plans affected by an _entangle_ spell are either immobilized or reduced to half speed. How is that spell not creating plants "that have been magically manipulated to impede motion". Freedom from Plants says that shroomlings are immune to that effect.

*SRD Entangle*
Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about  creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast  and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save  is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the  area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle  all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement.​
So enchanted entangling plants don't entangle a shroomling, so shouldn't impede their movement. I'd just like that stated clearly.



freyar said:


> Unless you're arguing for one of the augmented versions.




Well you know I'll always argue for augmentation...


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## freyar (Mar 17, 2013)

I don't understand.

Shroomlings are not entangled by plants affected by _entangle_.  However, they are not immune to magically manipulated impeded movement, so _entangle_ will still affect them just as it affects any other creature in the region that is not entangled.


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## Cleon (Mar 17, 2013)

freyar said:


> I don't understand.
> 
> Shroomlings are not entangled by plants affected by _entangle_.  However, they are not immune to magically manipulated impeded movement, so _entangle_ will still affect them just as it affects any other creature in the region that is not entangled.




I'm having difficulty following you.

The _entangle_ spell causes plants in its area of effect to wrap themselves around creatures, causing them to be entangled. The "Freedom from Plants" SQ I've proposed causes them to be immune to entanglement from plants, so the _entangle_ spell does not affect them. It even specifies such in its description.



Cleon said:


> Yeah, but if we're giving them immunity to plant  entanglement we should still modify the Woodland Stride a bit, shouldn't  we, since doesn't an _entangle_ spell create "overgrown areas that have been magically manipulated to impede motion".
> 
> e.g.:
> 
> *Freedom from Plants (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to  entanglement  by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin  vine) or magic  that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the  Druid spell _entangle_).




We are still discussing both "immunity from entangling plants" and "unconstrained movement through woods" SQs aren't we? It sounds like  you've forgotten about the former Freedom from Plants SQ and are only talking about a  Druid-style Woodland Stride for the latter.


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## freyar (Mar 18, 2013)

*Freedom from Plants* makes them immune to entanglement by plants, including from the spell _entangle_.  It does not, as written, make them immune to impeded movement by plants, even if caused by the _entangle_ spell.  So I don't see why we need to modify the druid's *Woodland Stride* to call out that they are still impeded by _entangle_.  Catch my drift?

Maybe the easiest thing is to make them immune to entanglement or impeded movement by plants, magically manipulated or mundane.


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## Cleon (Mar 20, 2013)

freyar said:


> *Freedom from Plants* makes them immune to entanglement by plants, including from the spell _entangle_.  It does not, as written, make them immune to impeded movement by plants, even if caused by the _entangle_ spell.  So I don't see why we need to modify the druid's *Woodland Stride* to call out that they are still impeded by _entangle_.  Catch my drift?




Erm, the impeded movement in question is one of the effects of the *entangled* condition, it's not separate from it. If it's immune to the condition I don't see why it should be partly affected by it as well. Permit me to quote the SRD:

*Entangled*
The character is ensnared. Being entangled *impedes movement*, but does  not entirely prevent it unless the bonds are anchored to an immobile  object or tethered by an opposing force. An entangled creature *moves at  half speed*, *cannot run or charge*, and takes a -2 penalty on all attack rolls and a -4 penalty to Dexterity. An entangled character who attempts to cast a spell must make a Concentration check (DC 15 + the spell’s level) or lose the spell. 

I'm fine with a Shroomling's movement being impeded by "non-entangling" plant obstacles, like a _wall of thorns_, but I just can't parse the logic as to why it would be impeded by something it is immune to.



freyar said:


> Maybe the easiest thing is to make them immune to entanglement or impeded movement by plants, magically manipulated or mundane.




Sure, I'd be fine doing something along those lines.

Would you be prepared to rough out a proposal.


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## freyar (Mar 21, 2013)

I'll trade you quote for quote.   Here's the SRD spell _entangle_ with emphasis added:



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Grasses, weeds, bushes, and even trees wrap, twist, and entwine about creatures in the area or those that enter the area, holding them fast and causing them to become entangled. The creature can break free and move half its normal speed by using a full-round action to make a DC 20 Strength check or a DC 20 Escape Artist check. A creature that succeeds on a Reflex save is not entangled but can still move at only half speed through the area. Each round on your turn, the plants once again attempt to entangle all creatures that have avoided or escaped entanglement.




It's the impeded movement highlighted in red that I'm talking about, which is clearly not due to being entangled.  Unless you're arguing that the shroomling doesn't make a Ref save, so that the red text doesn't apply (though I'd say they just automatically succeed at their save).

Or we could go with the enhanced version:

*Freedom from Plants (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell entangle).  A shroomling may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at their normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Brush and overgrown areas that has been magically manipulated to impede movement does not affect a shroomling's movement.  However, a shroomling does take damage as normal from plant growth that has been magically manipulated to injure creatures (such as a _wall of thorns_).


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## Cleon (Mar 22, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'll trade you quote for quote.   Here's the SRD spell _entangle_ with emphasis added:




I suspected we were just having a communication error. It'd have been a lot easier if you'd just quoted that in the first place. 

Allowing for "impeded movement without entanglement" was what I was aiming to cover with the modified Woodland Stride proposals.



Cleon said:


> *Woodland Stride 2 (Ex):* A  shroomling may move through any sort of  undergrowth (such as natural   thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and  similar terrain) at their normal   speed and without taking damage or  suffering any other impairment.  Brush and overgrown areas that has been magically manipulated to impede   movement does not affect a shroomling so long as the effect does no   damage. However, plants that are magically manipulated to injure   creatures, or damaging plant spells such as _wall of thorns_, do affect shroomlings normally, including impeding their movement.




I still like the idea of them being slowed by damaging movement-impeders, but am OK with the most recent Freedom from Plants.

*Freedom from Plants A (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _entangle_).  A shroomling may move through any sort of undergrowth (such as natural thorns, briars, overgrown areas, and similar terrain) at their normal speed and without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Brush and overgrown areas that has been magically manipulated to impede movement does not affect a shroomling's movement.  However, a shroomling does take damage as normal from plant growth that has been magically manipulated to injure creatures (such as a _wall of thorns_).

Separating them into two SQs does still seem to be a good idea, of only for clarity's sake:

*Immunity to Entangling Plants (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to  entanglement by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin  vine) or magic that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the  Druid spell _entangle_).

*Woodland Freedom 1 (Ex):* A shroomling may move through any sort of mundane undergrowth (natural  thorns, briars, etc.) at their normal  speed without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Brush  and overgrown areas that has been magically manipulated to impede  movement does not affect a shroomling's movement.  However, a shroomling  does take damage as normal from plant growth that has been magically  manipulated to injure creatures (such as a _wall of thorns_).

*Woodland Freedom 2 (Ex):* A shroomling may move through any sort of mundane undergrowth (natural  thorns, briars, etc.) at their normal  speed without taking damage or suffering any other impairment. Brush and overgrown areas that has been  magically manipulated to impede movement will only affect a shroomling's  movement if the effect causes damage, such as a  _wall of thorns_) spell.

What do you think of the idea of letting Nookie pick one of the options and moving on? We seem to be spending way to long on this point, and it's not even something I'm that bothered by!


----------



## freyar (Mar 23, 2013)

I actually like keeping it all as one ability (if we're going with the enhanced version), since that keeps all of it together.  Anyway, I'm more than happy to let Nookie decide.  Whew.


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## Cleon (Mar 24, 2013)

freyar said:


> I actually like keeping it all as one ability (if we're going with the enhanced version), since that keeps all of it together.  Anyway, I'm more than happy to let Nookie decide.  Whew.




I'm fine making it a single ability, we could split it in two paragraphs for clarity:

*Freedom from Plants [Non-Impeding] (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement  by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic  that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _ entangle_).

Shroomlings may move through any sort of mundane undergrowth (natural   thorns, briars, etc.) at their normal  speed without taking damage or  suffering any other impairment. Brush  and overgrown areas that has been  magically manipulated to impede  movement does not affect a  shroomling's movement.  However, a shroomling  does take damage as  normal from plant growth that has been magically  manipulated to injure  creatures (such as a _wall of thorns_).​
or:

*Freedom from Plants [Partially-Impeding] (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement  by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic  that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _ entangle_). 

Shroomlings may move through any sort of mundane undergrowth (natural   thorns, briars, etc.) at their normal  speed without taking damage or  suffering any other impairment. Brush and overgrown areas that has been   magically manipulated to impede movement will only affect a  shroomling's  movement if the effect causes damage, such as a  _wall of thorns_ spell.​
It just reads easier.


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## freyar (Mar 25, 2013)

Either way.  Let's let  [MENTION=83645]Nookie[/MENTION] decide.


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## Nookie (Mar 27, 2013)

Cleon said:


> I'm fine making it a single ability, we could split it in two paragraphs for clarity:
> *Freedom from Plants [Non-Impeding] (Ex):* A shroomling is immune to entanglement  by plants, including plant monsters (such as an assassin vine) or magic  that cause plants to entangle creatures (such as the Druid spell _ entangle_).
> 
> Shroomlings may move through any sort of mundane undergrowth (natural   thorns, briars, etc.) at their normal  speed without taking damage or  suffering any other impairment. Brush  and overgrown areas that has been  magically manipulated to impede  movement does not affect a  shroomling's movement.  However, a shroomling  does take damage as  normal from plant growth that has been magically  manipulated to injure  creatures (such as a _wall of thorns_).​
> ...




Partly Impeding looks better to me


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## freyar (Mar 27, 2013)

OK, then. 

Have we really not given these a speed?  I guess I'll suggest 20 ft, like the sprites.


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## Cleon (Mar 28, 2013)

freyar said:


> Either way.  Let's let   @_*Nookie*_  decide.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Well it seems the decision has been made!

Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Cleon (Mar 28, 2013)

freyar said:


> OK, then.
> 
> Have we really not given these a speed?  I guess I'll suggest 20 ft, like the sprites.




Looks that way. 20 ft. suits me.

The latest proposal for the undecided stats is:

*Special Qualities:* DR 5/cold iron, low-light vision
*Environment:* Any forest or underground
*Organization:* Solitary, hunting party (2-8), or circle (5-20 plus 1 gorri shroomling)
*Challenge Rating:* 1
*Treasure:* No coins, standard goods, standard items
*Alignment:* Always neutral often chaotic
*Advancement:* 1-3 HD (Tiny)
*Level Adjustment:* +X?

Anything there that you like or dislike?


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## Nookie (Mar 29, 2013)

20ft fits fine with me as is. I think the LA should be 2-4 ish.


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## Cleon (Mar 30, 2013)

Nookie said:


> 20ft fits fine with me as is. I think the LA should be 2-4 ish.




+3 feels about right for them.

They could make mean sorcerers, divine casters, or thieves.

Oh, they still have "spell-like abilities" in their SA line. We either need to decide on a few spells or cut that bit out. That would have an effect on their LA if we give them something powerful spell-wise.


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## freyar (Mar 31, 2013)

I'm not so sure they need SLAs.  If you want to give them some, I'd make them more utility-oriented rather than anything they could use offensively.  BTW, Freedom from Plants has a "]" hanging around in front of the name.


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## Cleon (Mar 31, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'm not so sure they need SLAs.  If you want to give them some, I'd make them more utility-oriented rather than anything they could use offensively.




Yes, I was thinking of mainly non-combat SLAs. Maybe just _create water_, _detect animals or plants_ and _detect poison_? We can give some better SLAs to the gurra shroomling.



freyar said:


> BTW, Freedom from Plants has a "]" hanging  around in front of the name.




Fixed!

The shroomling also still has an X in its Magic Mushroom caster level. I think we decided on a number for that, I'll go back through this thread a ways and if I can find a CL I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Cleon (Mar 31, 2013)

Cleon said:


> The shroomling also still has an X in its Magic Mushroom caster level. I think we decided on a number for that, I'll go back through this thread a ways and if I can find a CL I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.




The most recent proposal I could find was CL 3rd. Nobody responded to that proposal. So, since I didn't get any objections I'm adding it to the Working Draft.


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## freyar (Mar 31, 2013)

Those 3 SLAs are fine, and so is CL 3 for the mushrooms.


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## Cleon (Mar 31, 2013)

freyar said:


> Those 3 SLAs are fine, and so is CL 3 for the mushrooms.




Good! I'm thinking 3/day, although I'd be fine with at-will too.

I'll leave off adding the following to the Working Draft until we hear from Nookie.

*Spell-Like Abilities (Sp):* 3/day—_create water_, _detect animals or plants_ and _detect poison_. Caster level 3rd.


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## freyar (Apr 1, 2013)

3/day works.

I'm fine with pausing these until Nookie can get back around, too....


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## Cleon (Apr 2, 2013)

freyar said:


> 3/day works.
> 
> I'm fine with pausing these until Nookie can get back around, too....




I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft* with those then. We can always tweak them when (if) Nookie wants anything different.


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## Cleon (Apr 2, 2013)

So which bits of this, if any, should I be adding in?



Cleon said:


> The latest proposal for the undecided stats is:
> 
> *Special Qualities:* DR 5/cold iron, low-light vision
> *Environment:* Any forest or underground
> ...


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## freyar (Apr 3, 2013)

That all looks ok.  The special abilities would be pretty useful for a PC, so maybe LA of +3 or even +4?


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## Cleon (Apr 3, 2013)

freyar said:


> That all looks ok.  The special abilities would be pretty useful for a PC, so maybe LA of +3 or even +4?




Good-oh, I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft* except for the LA, which I'll leave undecided until we conclude a ferocious argument reasoned debate about it.


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## Nookie (Apr 4, 2013)

Sorry im being sporadic. Busy part of a semester. Anyway I say LA +3 looks fine the SLA are fine as well.


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## Cleon (Apr 4, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Sorry im being sporadic. Busy part of a semester. Anyway I say LA +3 looks fine the SLA are fine as well.




You're giving off spores? No wonder you wanted to convert a mushroom elf! 

[And yes, I know that's not really what "sporadic" means.]

I'm still not entirely decide on the LA. They've got pretty good special abilities compared to the LA +3 sprites - sure they lack _invisibility_, but their Quills and Spores are pretty handy. Especially the "secondary effect in 1 round" of the _Venom Quills_. They've also got much better AC and attack mods than the weaker sprites.

They do lack spell resistance though, which is a considerable equalized.

Hmm.

How about we make them CR 2 to account for their nasty abilities and give them LA +3. That'll put them part-way between a Grig (CR 1, LA +3) and a Pixie (CR 4, LA +4).


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## Cleon (Apr 4, 2013)

I just noticed I forgot to add the 20 ft. speed we'd agreed on to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

It's in it now!


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## Cleon (Apr 4, 2013)

Cleon said:


> I just noticed I forgot to add the 20 ft. speed we'd agreed on to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.
> 
> It's in it now!




I also tweaked the description under Special Quills so it covered both the Venom and Trance quills.


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## Nookie (Apr 4, 2013)

I think im ok with Cr2 Might be a little low on the HP side But the other defences kinda balance that out.


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## Cleon (Apr 5, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I think im ok with Cr2 Might be a little low on the HP side But the other defences kinda balance that out.




The Damage Reduction helps that somewhat. We could always give it Spell Resistance to add some more justification to upping its Challenge Rating.


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## Nookie (Apr 5, 2013)

I think its ok as is.


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## Cleon (Apr 5, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I think its ok as is.




So what do you fancy, a CR 2 LA +3 no-SR monster?


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## Nookie (Apr 8, 2013)

I like it.


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## Cleon (Apr 8, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I like it.




I'll leave off updating the Working Draft until we hear from Freyar.


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## freyar (Apr 8, 2013)

Works for me!


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## Cleon (Apr 9, 2013)

freyar said:


> Works for me!




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

That seems it for the stats. Do you want to do the flavour next or the Gorri shroomling?


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## Nookie (Apr 10, 2013)

lets do the gori shroomling than flavortext sense they are the same species only one is a more evolved form.


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## freyar (Apr 10, 2013)

Let's go ahead and do the text.

But first we should figure out the racial Move Silently bonus.  Or did you do that already and just forget to fill it in?  If not, I'd say +4 seems reasonable.


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## Cleon (Apr 10, 2013)

freyar said:


> Let's go ahead and do the text.




Didn't Nookie say he wanted to do the Gorri and then the flavour text in his previous post?



freyar said:


> But first we should figure out the racial Move Silently bonus.  Or did you do that already and just forget to fill it in?  If not, I'd say +4 seems reasonable.




+4 is fine by me. I'd have been happy to accept +6 or +8 too.

How about making it "Shroomlings have a +4 racial bonus on Move Silently checks. **In areas of forest or heavy brush, the Move Silently bonus improves to +8"?


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## Nookie (Apr 10, 2013)

doesnt really matter i just figured sense we were doing stats than we should finish the stats. You want a full write up or a thing that says "This is how a Gorri is Different that an a normal shroomling."


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## Cleon (Apr 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> doesnt really matter i just figured sense we were doing stats than we should finish the stats. You want a full write up or a thing that says "This is how a Gorri is Different that an a normal shroomling."




That's fine, I don't mind which we do first.

So you just fancy something like a *Stone Giant Elder*, which just has a paragraph about their higher Cha, SLAs and tendency to be sorcerers?

I was thinking of something a bit more elaborate, possibly with its own statblock.

Do we want to give the Gorri character levels like a *Frost Giant Jarl* - maybe in Adept or Cleric? - or just give the basic version racial HD? I'd prefer racial HD only, and reckon the Gorri should start out with at least 3 HD (the maximum advancement of the standard shroomling) and _possibly_ more.


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## Nookie (Apr 11, 2013)

I say the elder should have ranger levels myself. No reason a leader has to be a full caster like a cleric or a druid.


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## Cleon (Apr 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I say the elder should have ranger levels myself. No reason a leader has to be a full caster like a cleric or a druid.




I'm leaning towards not giving the "basic gorri" any character levels and noting that they're generally rangers or, say, druids.

We could add a "Shroomling As Characters" section that says they have Ranger as their favored class, I suppose.


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## Nookie (Apr 12, 2013)

sure sounds cool. so i think we talked about the Gori shroomlings being 3 Hd. I can see more con, wis and cha and the bonus SLA's as well.


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## Cleon (Apr 13, 2013)

Nookie said:


> sure sounds cool. so i think we talked about the Gori shroomlings being 3 Hd. I can see more con, wis and cha and the bonus SLA's as well.




If they're 3 HD they'll likely be Tiny, going by the Urdin's Advancement, so ought to have at least the ability advancements that bring (+2 Str, -2 Dex).

Hmm, if they have a Tiny size it'd mean they'll have a +2 size bonus to attacks/AC instead of a +4, so I'd give them something to increase their AC - maybe a point or two higher Dex and a point of natural armour?

They ought to have higher mental stats, too.

Hmm, we could just give them the "elite array" to improve their abilities, I suppose.


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## Nookie (Apr 14, 2013)

Yeah we could but i favor a bump here in there over just saying their stats are higher.


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## Cleon (Apr 14, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Yeah we could but i favor a bump here in there over just saying their stats are higher.




Okay then, why don't we cut to the quick and start talking numbers.

We seem to be OK with making them Tiny size.

How about if we give it 4 HD, since they're a stage beyond the 1-3 HD standard Shroomling in the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

You appear to be favoring by character class advancement rather than normal monster HD, but I prefer the latter.

Statwise, we could give them a +2 to most of their stats - I'm be OK increasing them all except for Dex.

I'd like to give them something to increase their AC. How about if we give them an "always on" _barkskin_ effect? If we set the CL to, say, 6th, that'll give 'em a +3 NA.

Putting that all together would give...

Tiny Fey
*Hit Dice:* 4d6+8 (22 hp)
*Armor Class:* 19 (+2 size, +4 Dex, +3 natural [_barkskin_]), touch 16, flat-footed 15
*Saves:* Fort +3, Ref +8, Will +7
*Abilities:* Str 8, Dex 19, Con 15, Int 12, Wis 16, Cha 17


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## Nookie (Apr 15, 2013)

all thse look good. But why not just give them +3 Na instead of a spell effect.Im ok with them being just Toucher.


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## freyar (Apr 18, 2013)

Sorry, I think my last post was cross-posted with Nookie's, so I didn't see what he'd said.

Anyway, I will approve that start to their statblock.  I see what Nookie's saying about the NA, but I do think the SLA-like effect is nicely flavorful and allows for perhaps interesting tactics on the part of the PCs.


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## Cleon (Apr 18, 2013)

freyar said:


> Sorry, I think my last post was cross-posted with Nookie's, so I didn't see what he'd said.
> 
> Anyway, I will approve that start to their statblock.  I see what Nookie's saying about the NA, but I do think the SLA-like effect is nicely flavorful and allows for perhaps interesting tactics on the part of the PCs.




Yes, basically I though making it a (Su) or (Sp) was a bit more interesting than a dull old natural armour increase, plus a +3 jump is quite a big jump for a Diminutive to Tiny size change. Normal size advancement between those sizes doesn't give a NA bonus.

Okie-dokey, I'll add it to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.



Nookie said:


> all thse look good. But why not just give them +3  Na instead of a spell effect.Im ok with them being just Toucher.




Well you see, this Nymph had an encounter with a Gorri "toucher" and complained to the Druid police who arrested him for public indecency, so all the other elder shroomlings insisted they were decent _barkskins_ who wouldn't dream of making improper contact with a woodland lady. Then they claimed the perpetrator was a Satyr using a _disguise self_ potion...


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## Nookie (Apr 18, 2013)

LOL, well when you guys put it that way  i agree with the SLA. Interesting is always better.


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## Cleon (Apr 19, 2013)

Nookie said:


> LOL, well when you guys put it that way  i agree with the SLA. Interesting is always better.




So, assuming we make the _barkskin_ (Su) is it continuous and unbreakable like a Unicorn's _magic circle against evil_, switchable like a Pixie's _greater invisibility_, or dispellable like Storm Giant's _freedom from movement_?

e.g.:

*Barkskin #1 (Su):* This ability continuously duplicates the effect of the _barkskin_ spell (caster level HD+2). A gorri shroomling cannot suppress this ability.

*Barkskin #2 (Su):* This ability duplicates the effect of the _barkskin_ spell (caster level HD+2). This ability is constant, but the gorri shroomling can suppress or resume it as a free action.

*Barkskin #3 (Su):* Gorri shroomlings have a continuous _barkskin_ ability as the spell (caster level HD+2). The effect can be dispelled, but the gorri can create it again on its next turn as a free action.


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## Nookie (Apr 20, 2013)

NUmber 3 looks good and most interesting to me.


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## Cleon (Apr 20, 2013)

Nookie said:


> NUmber 3 looks good and most interesting to me.




Fine by me. I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft* with that, since Freyar seems busy up at the moment.


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## freyar (Apr 21, 2013)

Yes, option 3 was closest to what I was thinking anyway.


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## Cleon (Apr 21, 2013)

freyar said:


> Yes, option 3 was closest to what I was thinking anyway.




Great!

So, assuming the rest of the stat changes in the outline are OK, what additional powers shall we be giving the Gorri.


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## freyar (Apr 22, 2013)

Well, we could add a new spore type, but I'm coming up blank for that.  Some more powerful or more offense-oriented SLAs (starting with entangle) might work.


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## Nookie (Apr 22, 2013)

Well a few more SLA and or maybe one more quil power or one more spore power. (Or both )


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## Cleon (Apr 22, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Well a few more SLA and or maybe one more quil power or one more spore power. (Or both )




I'd rather add a Spore power or two. I'd like them to be the elders/wise ones of the shroomlings, not their veteran warriors.


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## Nookie (Apr 23, 2013)

Hmm ok... Ohh i know. They can do a Spore that gets on other Shroomlings and buffs em somehow. Maybe they get hard scabby muchrooms on their bodies and they get a bark skin of their own.

Or a spore that grows into another mushroom creature (Campestri, Mychonid, Violet Fungus) something like summon natures ally but flavored differently


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## Cleon (Apr 23, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Hmm ok... Ohh i know. They can do a Spore that gets on other Shroomlings and buffs em somehow. Maybe they get hard scabby muchrooms on their bodies and they get a bark skin of their own.
> 
> Or a spore that grows into another mushroom creature (Campestri, Mychonid, Violet Fungus) something like summon natures ally but flavored differently




The second of those sounds more like an SLA to me, but I think the "fungal armor" one is workable.


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## freyar (Apr 23, 2013)

Ehh, I think you can put an SLA in the spores.  Kind of like sowing dragon teeth.

But a buffing spore or two would be good.

I still think some druidic/plant-oriented SLAs that may be useful in combat makes sense for "elders" of the shroomlings.


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## Nookie (Apr 24, 2013)

yeah i can see plant tangles and stuff that shroomlings themselves are immune to as far as SLA's go.


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## Cleon (Apr 24, 2013)

freyar said:


> Ehh, I think you can put an SLA in the spores.  Kind of like sowing dragon teeth.
> 
> But a buffing spore or two would be good.




How about a "battle spores" which duplicate the effects of _divine power_ to a number of shroomlings? (BAB increases to equal HD, +6 enhancement bonus to Strength, 1 temporary hit point per caster level)?



freyar said:


> I still think some druidic/plant-oriented SLAs that may be useful in combat makes sense for "elders" of the shroomlings.




I don't think they should _all_ be combat SLAs. I'd include some spells that are utility (e.g. _speak with plants_, _wood shape_, _scrying_) or dual-purpose (e.g. _transport via plants_, _soften earth and stone_, _warp wood_) as well as combat (e.g. _entangle_, _wall of thorns_).


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## freyar (Apr 24, 2013)

That's a pretty potent battle spore!  How about dropping the temp hp and reducing the Str bonus to +4?

I'll agree on the mixture of SLAs.  How about adding _entangle, speak with plants, transport via plants, wood shape_ 3/day each?  I don't fancy using too high-level spells.


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## Nookie (Apr 25, 2013)

ok looks good freyar


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## Cleon (Apr 26, 2013)

Nookie said:


> ok looks good freyar




I can go along with that.

We'll need an area of effect (or some other limit to no. of shroomlings) for the "battle spores".


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## Nookie (Apr 27, 2013)

same range as the alarm spores or do you think thats too much.


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## Cleon (Apr 27, 2013)

Nookie said:


> same range as the alarm spores or do you think thats too much.




Yes, a 40 ft. radius spread would seem too much. You might as well just say it affects all the Shroomlings.

I was thinking a 10 ft. burst like the Pesticide spores.


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## Cleon (Apr 27, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Yes, a 40 ft. radius spread would seem too much. You might as well just say it affects all the Shroomlings.
> 
> I was thinking a 10 ft. burst like the Pesticide spores.




Come to think of it, shouldn't the Pesticide be a 10 ft. _spread_ instead of a burst. The setup paragraph for Spores says they are only rays or spreads.

Come to think of it, we don't _have_ any spores that work as rays. We'd better fix that!


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## Nookie (Apr 27, 2013)

bursts are instant and spreads linger right? Or did i read that somewhere wrong?


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## Cleon (Apr 28, 2013)

Nookie said:


> bursts are instant and spreads linger right? Or did i read that somewhere wrong?




Basically the difference is spreads can go around corners and bursts don't.

The "lingering" one is called an emanation.


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## Nookie (Apr 29, 2013)

ah ha ok. I can see spores going around corners.


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## Cleon (Apr 29, 2013)

Nookie said:


> ah ha ok. I can see spores going around corners.




Update the *Shroomling Working Draft* with all-spread spores all the time.

Shall we give the regular Shroomling a "ray" spore ability, so it makes sense to mention it in the Spores preamble?

Oh, and does a 10 ft. spread for the Gorri "battle spores" suit you?


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## Cleon (Apr 29, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Shall we give the regular Shroomling a "ray" spore ability, so it makes sense to mention it in the Spores preamble?




How's this for a "ray" ability for the Urdin shroomling?

_Woodrot:_ A shroomling can spit out spores in a 40 ft. ray that can cause wooden objects and plants to immediately decay, spouting mold and mushrooms. A living plant, plant creature or magical wooden object can negate the  woodrot spores by succeeding on a DC 12 Fortitude save. Non-magical  wooden objects get no save. Woodrot does 1d6 [*?*] damage to plants and wooden objects (ignoring hardness). In addition, plant creatures take 1d3 Str and 1d3 Con damage, while wooden objects and living plants are softened, warped and weakened, gaining a -2 penalty on hardness (if any) and all skill checks, ability checks and attack rolls involving the rotted target have a -4 penalty. For example, a woodrotted quarterstaff has a -4 attack penalty and -2 to hardness, a woodrotted oak door has -2 to hardness and -4 to its Break DC.


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## Nookie (Apr 30, 2013)

woodrot sounds cool. 10 foot armor spore works for me.


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## freyar (Apr 30, 2013)

Yes, I can go for both of those as well.


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## Cleon (May 1, 2013)

freyar said:


> Yes, I can go for both of those as well.




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

Okay, how about this for the Gorri's Spores:

*Spores (Su):* A gorri shroomling can produce the following types of spores in addition to the spore types available to an Urdin shroomling.

_Battle Powder:_ A gorri shroomling can spit out a puff   of spores with a  range of 40 ft. which explodes in a 10 ft. radius spread. All shroomlings within the spread are imbued with strength and skill in combat for a duration of X rounds. Their base attack bonus becomes equal to their Hit Dice (which may give them additional attacks) and they gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength.

_Fighting Fungus:_ A gorri shroomling can spit a ray of spores with a 40 ft. range. If this ray hits a mass of lifeless organic material weighing at least 200 pounds (such as a forest floor rich in humus, a dead tree trunk, or a Medium sized humanoid corpse) the spores instantly germinate and a strange multi-armed fungus grows from the material within 1d3 rounds. this fungus has the statistics of a violet fungus except it lacks a poison special attack. The fighting fungus behaves like a creature summoned with a _summon nature's ally_ spell, attacking the gorri's opponents to the best of its ability. The gorri can use _speak with plants_ to communicate with the creature and direct it not to attack, to attack particular enemies, or to perform other actions. A fighting fungus decomposes to harmless pulp 1d10+10 rounds after it appears.


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## Cleon (May 1, 2013)

Cleon said:


> The gorri can use _speak with plants_ to communicate with the creature and direct it not to attack.




That reminds me, I should add the SLAs Freyar fancied to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Cleon (May 1, 2013)

Cleon said:


> That reminds me, I should add the SLAs Freyar fancied to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.




I've updated the *Shroomling Working Draft* but substituted _tree stride_ for _transport via plants_. The two spells do more-or-less the same thing and _tree stride_ is lower level. I set the CL of the SLAs to 9th, which is the minimum Druid CL for _tree stride_.


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## freyar (May 1, 2013)

Those SLAs will work.

I also like the spores.  How about 1d6 rounds for the battle powder duration?


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## Nookie (May 2, 2013)

1d6 is good or 1d6 +con mod or something for added interesting mechanics.


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## Cleon (May 2, 2013)

Nookie said:


> 1d6 is good or 1d6 +con mod or something for added interesting mechanics.




How about 1d6 rounds plus the gorri's Charisma modifier, since the Spores' save DCs are Cha-based?

I think we could do with one or two utility/defensive/healing abilities.

How about a "Super Magic Mushroom" that combines _lesser restoration_ with _cure light wounds_, and a "Creation Fungus" that mimics a _minor creation_ and/or builds a mushroom hut?


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## freyar (May 2, 2013)

I like the minor creation fungus, but the Super Mushroom just seems a bit boring.  I wouldn't mind boosting the uses per day (though I guess Cha is already boosted) to let it make more of the normal magic mushrooms.

1d6+Cha rounds is ok.


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## Nookie (May 2, 2013)

Looks good I still like the idea of a Mushroom spore Based summon natures ally ability as well. Creation fungus is kinda groovey as well. reading magic mushroom Almost think there should be some kinda halucination spores but that might be to many spores.


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## Cleon (May 2, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Looks good I still like the idea of a Mushroom spore Based summon natures ally ability as well. Creation fungus is kinda groovey as well. reading magic mushroom Almost think there should be some kinda halucination spores but that might be to many spores.




As I said earlier, a straight _summon nature's ally_ didn't work for me, so I whipped up the Fighting Fungus spores ability as a substitute.

I thought about giving it a hallucination spores, but decided against the idea since (a) it seemed too similar to the Myconid's spore ability and (b) they already have a hallucination-like ability with their _Trance_ Quills.

Hmm, how about with give the Gorri shroomling Quills with a hallucinatory venom? Say, Wis damage and hallucinations for X rounds as a primary effect, Int damage and Y rounds of hallucination as a secondary effect.


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## Nookie (May 3, 2013)

Sure sounds rockin. Opps I overlooked fighting fungus which also is awesome lets go with that one.


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## Cleon (May 3, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Sure sounds rockin. Opps I overlooked fighting fungus which also is awesome lets go with that one.




Fine!

Revising proposal:

*Spores (Su):* A gorri shroomling can produce the following types of spores in addition to the spore types available to an Urdin shroomling.

_Battle Powder:_ A gorri shroomling can spit out a puff   of spores  with a  range of 40 ft. which explodes in a 10 ft. radius spread. All  shroomlings within the spread are imbued with strength and skill in  combat for a duration of 1d6 rounds plus the gorri's Charisma bonus. Their base attack bonus becomes equal  to their Hit Dice (which may give them additional attacks) and they  gain a +4 enhancement bonus to Strength.

_Fighting Fungus:_ A gorri shroomling can spit a ray of spores with  a 40 ft. range. If this ray hits a mass of lifeless organic material  weighing at least 200 pounds (such as a forest floor rich in humus, a  dead tree trunk, or a Medium sized humanoid corpse) the spores instantly  germinate and a strange multi-armed fungus grows from the material  within 1d3 rounds. this fungus has the statistics of a violet fungus  except it lacks a poison special attack. The fighting fungus behaves  like a creature summoned with a _summon nature's ally_ spell, attacking the gorri's opponents to the best of its ability. The gorri can use _speak with plants_  to communicate with the creature and direct it not to attack, to attack  particular enemies, or to perform other actions. A fighting fungus  decomposes to harmless pulp 1d10+10 rounds after it appears.

And for the "Super Magic Mushrooms" and "Creation Spores".

_Marvel Mushroom:_ A gorri shroomling can produce spores that cause a single mushroom to sprout from an area of rich soil within 5 ft. This mushroom heals and invigorates whoever eats it, with effect combining a _cure light wounds_ and a _lesser restoration_ spell (caster level 6th). In addition, it provides 1d3 days worth of nourishment for a Medium creature. A creature cannot only benefit from the effects of eating a single Marvel Mushroom each day.

_Fungal Creation:_ As a full round action, a gorri shroomling can spray a complex pattern of spores that grow into a building or object made of dense fungus material. The spores must have sufficient organic material (dead wood, rich loam, corpses, et cetera) to transform into whatever the gorri is trying to create. A fungal building requires roughly 200 pounds of raw material per 5 ft. square of construction.

    Used for _building_, the gorri can erect a toadstool- or puffball-like hut up to 10 ft. in diameter and 5 ft. tall; a tower 5 ft. in diameter and 10 ft. tall, a ledge or wall up to 40 ft. long and 5 ft. wide or tall, a bridge 5 ft. wide spanning a gap up to 20 ft., or any other construction of similar size. The walls and floor of such fungal constructions are as tough as thin, soft wood (hardness 5, Break DC 13, 10 hit points per 5 ft. section). The building can include doors, windows, shutters, gates and the like, but these are part of a whole construction, joined to it by fleshy fungal hinges. The construction must be rooted in soil, and crumbles to powder within an hour if it is uprooted. as will any part cut away from the whole.

    Used for _manufacture_, the gorri can create nonmagical objects of nonliving fungal matter with the physical properties of wood. The gorri can manufacture objects up to 300 pounds in weight or 12 cubic feet in volume. It can manufacture multiple objects (up to 50), but they must be identical. Fungal creation can create complex shapes, but nothing with any moving parts. It can not create "fungal armour" and the only weapons it can manufacture are clubs, staves, darts, javelins, and spears. In other respects, this ability is equivalent to a _minor creation_ spell (caster level 12th).

   A gorri's fungal creations normally last for 1d4+12 days before they crumble to powder. However, a shroomling can spray _Magic Mushroom_, _Marvel Mushroom_ or _Fungal Creation_ spores on an existing fungal creation to grants it a duration of 1d4 days plus the spores' caster level. The durations do not stack. (i.e. if a creation has 4 days of duration left, the dose of mystic mushroom spores must roll 5+ on the d4+CL check to increase the duration of the fungal creation). If a shroomling uses mystic spores to extend the life of a fungal creation the spores do not create their normal effects (i.e. _Magic Mushrooms_ spores do not also sprout healing mushrooms).


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## freyar (May 3, 2013)

I'm still not overly fond of the Marvel Mushroom.  Just not enough variety for me.  Fungal Creation is good, though.


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## Cleon (May 3, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Hmm, how about with give the Gorri shroomling Quills with a hallucinatory venom? Say, Wis damage and hallucinations for X rounds as a primary effect, Int damage and Y rounds of hallucination as a secondary effect.




Here's a proposal for the "Hallucination" quill.

*Special Quills (Su):* A gorri shroomling can employ the following type of magically envenomed shortspear in addition to the quills available to an urdin shroomling.

_Hallucination:_ An opponent struck by a hallucination quill takes no damage but is  implanted with a nonlethal poison  (injury, DC 17 Fortitude save, initial damage 1d4 Wis and 1d4 rounds of confusion, secondary damage 1d4 Int and 1d4 minutes of confusion). This poison is   supernaturally  fast, so the secondary damage takes effect after 1 round,   not the 1  minute delay of standard poison. The save DC is  Charisma-based and   includes a +2 racial bonus.


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## Cleon (May 3, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'm still not overly fond of the Marvel Mushroom.  Just not enough variety for me.  Fungal Creation is good, though.




Well I was aiming for an "improved healing" mushroom rather than adding exciting variety. Any suggestions for jazzing it up?

Well the Marvel Mushroom could only have condition-removing properties - e.g. _lesser restoration_ plus one _remove_ effect (blindness/deafness, curse, disease, fear, paralysis) or _neutralize poison_.

I'd probably cut out the _remove fear_ and _remove curse_, since those are Abjuration rather than Conjuration (Healing).


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## Nookie (May 4, 2013)

how about it has double the HP and food value of that of a healing mushroom and when your throw it at an undead creatures it acts like an inflict light wounds spell or something.


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## Cleon (May 5, 2013)

Nookie said:


> how about it has double the HP and food value of that of a healing mushroom and when your throw it at an undead creatures it acts like an inflict light wounds spell or something.




You want it to heal undead? Where does that come from.


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## Nookie (May 6, 2013)

I meant cure light wounds >.>


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## Cleon (May 7, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I meant cure light wounds >.>




It'd seem a bit funny to me to have it only act like _cure light wounds_ against undead when used at range.

Hmm, we could make it a more generic "Healing" spores, e.g.:

_Healing:_ A gorri shroomling can produce spores with magical healing properties, duplicating the effects of any one of the following: _SPELL LIST_. The healing spores have the same effect as a conjuration (healing)  cleric spell of caster level 6th, but require no spell components, and  their save DC (were applicable) is Charisma-based. The gorri can deliver these healing spores as a X ft. range ray or use them to create a "healing mushroom" that functions identically to a potion containing the healing spell. If the gorri creates a healing mushroom it must pay XPs equal to the normal XP cost of the potion.

For the "SPELL LIST", my first thought was basing it on the druid's conjuration (healing) spells up to 3rd level: _cure light wounds_, _cure minor wounds_, _cure moderate wounds_, _delay poison_, _lesser restoration_, _neutralize poison_, _remove disease_.

Although I did fancy including some of the conjuration (healing) spells a cleric can cast: _cure light wounds_, _cure minor wounds_, _cure moderate wounds_, _cure serious wounds_, _delay poison_, _lesser restoration_, _neutralize poison_, _remove blindness/deafness_, _remove disease_, _remove paralysis_.


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## freyar (May 8, 2013)

Make the healing spores a ray, and I'll get on board.


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## Cleon (May 8, 2013)

freyar said:


> Make the healing spores a ray, and I'll get on board.




I suggest you reread the proposal:



Cleon said:


> _Healing:_ A gorri shroomling can produce spores with magical healing properties, duplicating the effects of any one of the following: _SPELL LIST_.  The healing spores have the same effect as a conjuration (healing)   cleric spell of caster level 6th, but require no spell components, and   their save DC (were applicable) is Charisma-based. The gorri can deliver  these healing spores as a X ft. range ray or use them to create a  "healing mushroom" that functions identically to a potion containing the  healing spell. If the gorri creates a healing mushroom it must pay XPs  equal to the normal XP cost of the potion.




Looks like I should rephrase it to make it clearer. How about:

_Healing:_ A gorri shroomling can produce spores with magical healing properties as a ray with an X foot range. The healing spores have the same effect as a conjuration (healing)   cleric spell of caster level 6th, but require no spell components, and   their save DC (were applicable) is Charisma-based. Gorri healing spores can duplicating any one of the following: _SPELL LIST_.

Alternatively, the gorri can use these spores to cause a  "healing mushroom" to spring from any area of rich soil within range. The mushroom functions identically to a potion containing the  healing spell, and can be dried or pickled and still retain its magical properties. The gorri must pay experience points  equal to the normal XP cost of the potion.​
I added a bit more flavour to it and split the description into two paragraphs for clarity - I like the idea of pickled healing mushrooms!


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## Cleon (May 8, 2013)

The indenting kept on going wonky with my previous post. Took a few minutes to fix it.

Anyhow, we need a selection of spells for the _Healing Spores_ - any preferences?


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## Nookie (May 10, 2013)

the druid list seems fine. Though i like the idea of it not being a mushroom and just heals whatever the ray hits.


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## Cleon (May 10, 2013)

Nookie said:


> the druid list seems fine. Though i like the idea of it not being a mushroom and just heals whatever the ray hits.




I wouldn't mind adding a couple of the cleric spells, probably _neutralize poison_ and _remove blindness/deafness_.


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## Nookie (May 11, 2013)

works for me


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## Cleon (May 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> works for me




I'll update the *Shroomling Working Draft* with what we've got so far for the Gorri.

We need a range for the Healing Spores' ray. I was thinking pretty short. Maybe 20 ft.?


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## freyar (May 12, 2013)

Yes, I think I meant make it _just_ a ray.  We seem to be using a 40 ft range for the gorri, so I guess we can stick to that.  I also think you mean "can duplicate" rather than "can duplicating."


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## Nookie (May 12, 2013)

ok is there anything else we need to finish up on shroomy?


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## Cleon (May 13, 2013)

freyar said:


> Yes, I think I meant make it _just_ a ray.  We seem to be using a 40 ft range for the gorri, so I guess we can stick to that.  I also think you mean "can duplicate" rather than "can duplicating."




Yes, I know you meant just a ray, but I like me magic mushrooms. 

If I remember correctly, that "duplicating" made sense in the original construction of the sentence, but I monkeyed around with the syntax and neglected to change it.

I prefer a shorter range for the ray - maybe only 10 feet! - but if you both prefer 40 ft. I'd go along with it.


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## Nookie (May 14, 2013)

Im ok with either really.


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## Cleon (May 15, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Im ok with either really.




So shall we leave it as-is, but with a 20 ft. range for the ray?


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## freyar (May 15, 2013)

I'll go with a 20 ft ray, but I'm still not fond of the mushroom.  I'll go along with it, though, I guess.


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## Cleon (May 18, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'll go with a 20 ft ray, but I'm still not fond of the mushroom.  I'll go along with it, though, I guess.




You know, upon reflection I think I'll go along with your previous post's suggestion we stick to a 40 ft. range for all the rays.

Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

I added the _Fungal Creation_ spores to it too, slightly modified to account for a minor change in spore names.


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## freyar (May 20, 2013)

Sure, looks good!

What's next for them?


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## Nookie (May 20, 2013)

I think its time to deal with the extra feat and skill points. than its fluff time I think.


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## Cleon (May 22, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I think its time to deal with the extra feat and skill points. than its fluff time I think.




Sounds good.

It's got 25 more skill points than the Urdin and an extra feat.

We could put five extra ranks to max-out Hide, a rank in Survival & Tumble, plus two ranks in Knowledge (nature), Listen, Move Silently & Spot. After allowing for the Gorri's increased stats, that will increase its skills by +1 to Hide & Tumble; +2 to Move Silently & Survival; and +3 to Knowledge, Listen & Spot.

That leaves 10 ranks, for two skills at 5 ranks - maybe Concentration and Knowledge (arcane), or Diplomacy and Use Magic Item?

There may be some synergy bonuses introduced on top of that, which I'll have to figure out later.


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## Nookie (May 23, 2013)

How about Diplomacy and UMD. As for the feat i say alertness to get more use out of the alarm spores.


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## freyar (May 23, 2013)

I could go for that.  Since these are leaders, Diplomacy makes good sense.


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## Cleon (May 25, 2013)

freyar said:


> I could go for that.  Since these are leaders, Diplomacy makes good sense.




Diplomacy and UMD are fine, but I'm not convinced by Nookie's Alertness proposal. 

There are far more useful feats to pick.


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## Nookie (May 25, 2013)

Im fine with something else.


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## freyar (May 27, 2013)

To be honest, I'm not seeing many feat choices that are thematic, very useful, and very interesting.  What do you suggest?


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## Nookie (May 27, 2013)

I kinda liked alertness. Makes the Alarm spores more useable when papa is around adding to his leaderless. But if freyar has a more interesting idea than i'm up for it.


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## Cleon (May 29, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I kinda liked alertness. Makes the Alarm spores  more useable when papa is around adding to his leaderless. But if freyar  has a more interesting idea than i'm up for it.




Well I suppose we could give it Ability Focus in either Spores or  Quills, although a DC 19 save for the Quills would seem a bit extreme - I  suppose we could remove the racial bonus and make the Quills DC 12 for  the Gorri and 17 for the Urdin.


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## freyar (May 30, 2013)

I'm not too fond of Ability Focus for these, either.  There are Weapon Focus, Stealthy, Skill Focus...


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## Nookie (May 31, 2013)

Stealthy maybe or skill focus works.


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## Nookie (Jun 7, 2013)

Getting the feeling Everyones getting burned out here.


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## Cleon (Jun 8, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Getting the feeling Everyones getting burned out here.




We do seem a bit starved of inspiration.

Are there any general-purpose feats in the *Psionic* or *Divine *SRDs that look appropriate?

How about *Plant Defiance*?


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## Nookie (Jun 9, 2013)

ohh something like that but for vermin maybe? it does look good though if noones comfy with the vermin version. But than again they have enough anti vermine tricks.


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## freyar (Jun 10, 2013)

Heh, mostly I'm putting what effort I have toward conversions....

Let's go with Plant Defiance.  That'll be handy.


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## Cleon (Jun 10, 2013)

Nookie said:


> ohh something like that but for vermin maybe? it  does look good though if noones comfy with the vermin version. But than  again they have enough anti vermine tricks.




Except there isn't a "Vermin Defiance" in the SRD, and I'm reluctant to start inventing Feats as well as all the other stuff we're making up from whole cloth.



freyar said:


> Heh, mostly I'm putting what effort I have toward conversions....
> 
> Let's go with Plant Defiance.  That'll be handy.




Well that's two of us, which I think is enough to update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## Nookie (Jun 10, 2013)

Cool and to fill in the last question mark on the working draft. I think Cl 9 works fine for me  Are we ready to work on fluff?


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## Cleon (Jun 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Cool and to fill in the last question mark on the working draft. I think Cl 9 works fine for me  Are we ready to work on fluff?




I was also toying with CL 6th, the same as their "Healing Spores". Anyone have a preference?


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## Nookie (Jun 11, 2013)

well to maybe be more Uniform we should go with 6.


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## freyar (Jun 11, 2013)

CL 6 will work.  Ready for fluff?


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## Nookie (Jun 13, 2013)

lets get fluffy


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## Nookie (Jun 14, 2013)

The Small Blue mushroom like humanoid has a feline like face. It is defensive clutching a small spear in its hands.


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## Cleon (Jun 14, 2013)

freyar said:


> CL 6 will work.  Ready for fluff?




I'd be equally OK with 9th level, but CL 6 is nice too so let's use that.

Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.



freyar said:


> CL 6 will work.  Ready for fluff?




We've still got Organisation, CR, Advancement and LA for the Urdin to settle on.


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2013)

I'd just stick to solitary or circle for org.

Advancement: by character class.  In fact, I think I'd change the urdin shroomling advancement to that, too.

CR of 3 maybe.  They do have a bit more combat capability, but most of their extra abilities are for support.


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## Nookie (Jun 16, 2013)

how many are in a circle?


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## freyar (Jun 17, 2013)

It's right there in the stats, 1 gorri plus 5-20 urdins.


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## Nookie (Jun 17, 2013)

sounds good to me.


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## Nookie (Jul 2, 2013)

Advancment by character class is good for me as well.
Some fluff

The Small Blue mushroom like humanoid has a feline like face. It is defensive clutching a small spear in its hands.


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## Cleon (Jul 2, 2013)

freyar said:


> I'd just stick to solitary or circle for org.




Didn't you know that every season (or in response to major emergencies), the gorris of a forest gather together to discuss matters of import to the all the shroomlings of the forest?

They mostly sit around in a ring smoking, chewing mushrooms and gossiping, but occasionally something useful arises from their meetings:

*Organization:* Solitary, ring (2-12), or circle (1 plus 5-20 shroomling)



freyar said:


> Advancement: by character class.  In fact, I think I'd change the urdin shroomling advancement to that, too.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I like the Urdin getting bigger with age, though, so how about:

Urdin Advancement: 1-3 HD (Tiny) or by character class
Gorri Advancement: by character class



freyar said:


> CR of 3 maybe.  They do have a bit more combat capability, but most of their extra abilities are for support.




We need to include the Fighting Fungus in our CR estimate, remember. A standard gorri could create up to three of those using its Spores SQ.

How much would one of those be worth do you reckon? I'd guesstimate a weak CR 2 - they do have 4 attacks, Reach, and a bunch of immunities from their Plant type.


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## Cleon (Jul 2, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Advancment by character class is good for me as well.
> Some fluff
> 
> The Small Blue mushroom like humanoid has a feline like face. It is defensive clutching a small spear in its hands.




Hmm, that needs a bit of work. I don't care for using terms that have specific game rule meanings like "Small" or "humanoid" in a description.

Oh, and shouldn't it be "defensively"?


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## freyar (Jul 4, 2013)

Well, three fighting fungi (at about CR 2 each) would be an EL of a bit over 5.  But they take a while to germinate, and that would use up the gorri's other abilities.  So maybe CR 4 or 5?

I can go along with your org and advancement.


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## Cleon (Jul 6, 2013)

freyar said:


> Well, three fighting fungi (at about CR 2 each)  would be an EL of a bit over 5.  But they take a while to germinate, and  that would use up the gorri's other abilities.  So maybe CR 4 or 5?




I prefer 4, if only to match the Hit Dice.

It would seem appropriate to increase the LA to, say, +4. It has a good few more special abilities, after all.



freyar said:


> I can go along with your org and advancement.




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2013)

LA +4 is fine.

Anything else, or all ready for tactics and flavor?


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## Nookie (Jul 8, 2013)

i thin its flavor time?


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## freyar (Jul 8, 2013)

Go for it!


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## Cleon (Jul 9, 2013)

freyar said:


> LA +4 is fine.
> 
> Anything else, or all ready for tactics and flavor?




So are we also OK with CR 4?


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2013)

Since that was one of my suggestions, I certainly am.


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## Nookie (Jul 11, 2013)

im ok with it as well.


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## Cleon (Jul 12, 2013)

Nookie said:


> freyar said:
> 
> 
> > Since that was one of my suggestions, I certainly am.
> ...




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

I suppose that sends us back to the flavour text.


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## freyar (Jul 14, 2013)

I'm waiting for Nookie, since it's Nookie's thread!


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## Nookie (Jul 15, 2013)

The Blue little mushroom man has a feline like face. It is defensive clutching a small spear in its hands watching you intently.

How that sound?


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## Cleon (Jul 15, 2013)

Nookie said:


> The Blue little mushroom man has a feline like face. It is defensive clutching a small spear in its hands watching you intently.
> 
> How that sound?




First thought is "It is defensive clutching a small spear in its hands watching you intently" needs a bit more punctuation.

Second thought is that I'm not in favor of descriptions that state what the creature is doing. In this case, what if the Shroomling is not in a defensive stance, or is not aware of the intruding PCs?

Oh, and third thought is I'd prefer a hyphen in "feline like". For that matter, I _slightly_ prefer "cat-like" or "catlike".

Hmmm...

I'd go for something like.

_A pale-blue creature __the __size and shape of a sprite. It has a catlike face with whiskers and large dark eyes. The top of its head resembles the broad white cap of a mushroom, and its legs and feet are also covered in white mushroom-like skin. Slung over its shoulder is a quiver of tiny spears._

What thinks thee?


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## Nookie (Jul 15, 2013)

I bow to your superior flavor text.


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## freyar (Jul 15, 2013)

Seems fine, though you'll need to change the white to red for the gorri.

We also need tactics.


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## Nookie (Jul 15, 2013)

well they are small and there are lits of them and they are good at stealth. I think they should have ambush tactics.


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## Debby (Jul 16, 2013)

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...0/mr3srwIh7E4/w800-h800/4-v9bm1c-original.jpg  as original picture has been removed.

How about using full sentences.... Also, aren't spears a little long for a quiver unless it has an "efficient quiver?"


_A pale-blue creature the size and shape of a sprite with a feline face, whiskers, and large dark eyes steps into view on the mossy forest floor. The top of its head resembles the broad white cap of a mushroom. Its legs and feet are likewise clad in white mushroom-like skin. Slung over its shoulder is a quiver of tiny spears. _

From SRD
[h=5]Efficient Quiver[/h]This appears to be a typical arrow container capable of holding about twenty arrows. It has three distinct portions, each with a nondimensional space allowing it to store far more than would normally be possible. The first and smallest one can contain up to sixty objects of the same general size and shape as an arrow. The second slightly longer compartment holds up to eighteen objects of the same general size and shape as a javelin. The third and longest portion of the case contains as many as six objects of the same general size and shape as a bow (spears, staffs, or the like). Once the owner has filled it, the quiver can produce any item she wishes, as if from a regular quiver or scabbard. The efficient quiver weighs the same no matter what’s placed inside it.
Moderate conjuration; CL 9th; Craft Wondrous Item, secret chest; Price 1,800 gp; Weight 2 lb.


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## Nookie (Jul 16, 2013)

thanks Debby


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## Cleon (Jul 16, 2013)

freyar said:


> Seems fine, though you'll need to change the white to red for the gorri.




I'm presuming we're doing a separate description for the Gorri one we've finished that for the Urdin "basic" shroomling.

Regarding the red bits, is it only the "mushroom cap" that's red - maybe with white spots like a Fly Agaric mushroom (_Amanita muscaria_), or are their legs and feet red too?


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## Cleon (Jul 16, 2013)

Debby said:


> https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-...0/mr3srwIh7E4/w800-h800/4-v9bm1c-original.jpg  as original picture has been removed.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Cleon (Jul 16, 2013)

Nookie said:


> well they are small and there are lits of them and they are good at stealth. I think they should have ambush tactics.




Agreed.

Hit-and-run ambush tactics are the obvious fit to their abilities.


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## freyar (Jul 16, 2013)

Tactics: Urdin shroomlings prefer to attack from ambush, using their trance quills against most opponents but venom against known enemies.


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## Cleon (Jul 19, 2013)

freyar said:


> Tactics: Urdin shroomlings prefer to attack from  ambush, using their trance quills against most opponents but venom  against known enemies.




Hmm...

How about:

Shroomling tactics rely on stealthy  ambushes and hit-and-run attacks. They prefer to fight from a distance  using spell-like abilities, spores, and thrown quills. A shroomling uses  its trance quills against most opponents, reserving its venom quills  for mortal enemies.


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## freyar (Jul 20, 2013)

I'll go for that!


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## Nookie (Jul 22, 2013)

looks goo to me as well.


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## Cleon (Jul 23, 2013)

Nookie said:


> freyar said:
> 
> 
> > I'll go for that!
> ...




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## freyar (Jul 23, 2013)

What kind of background would we like?  Something similar to sprites?


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## Nookie (Jul 24, 2013)

Sprites but maybe a little more militant in their protecting of their homes.


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## Cleon (Jul 24, 2013)

Nookie said:


> freyar said:
> 
> 
> > What kind of background would we like?  Something similar to sprites?
> ...




SRD Sprites "go out of their way to fight evil and ugliness and to protect their homelands". Wouldn't something like that be enough?

I'd keep it vague, since we have no folklore or background info.

Maybe something like:

Shroomlings are forest-dwelling fey with mushroom like heads. They can create magical spores in a similar fashion to myconids, but are not related to the mushroom folk. Reclusive creatures, shroomlings do not fight evil and ugliness like sprites do, but can be very aggressive in the defense of their homelands. They particularly dislike destructive vermin that threaten the plants and fungi they depend upon.

These stats describe the commonest type of shroomling, known as an urdin. An urdin who survives long enough will grow in size and strength and  eventually transform into a gorri shroomling, easily identifiable by its red mushroom cap. Shroomlings live in small communities known as circles, each composed of a group of urdin led by a single gorri. They usually live in puffball-like dwellings they grow out of the soil from magical spores.

An urdin shroomling stands stands 1½ feet tall and weighs about 1 pound.


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## freyar (Jul 25, 2013)

No, no, no, they are 3 apples tall.  Other than that, it's perfect.


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## Nookie (Jul 26, 2013)

LOL that looks good to me cleon


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## Cleon (Jul 28, 2013)

freyar said:


> No, no, no, they are 3 apples tall.  Other than that, it's perfect.




Sadly, Wizards of the Coast's failure to adopt the Universal Fruit  Standard means we're stuck with using boring old feet and inches for our  length measurements.



Nookie said:


> LOL that looks good to me cleon




Updating the *Shroomling Working Draft*.


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## freyar (Jul 29, 2013)

Well, the background and description only need a few tweaks for the gorri, I'd think.


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## Cleon (Jul 30, 2013)

freyar said:


> Well, the background and description only need a few tweaks for the gorri, I'd think.




Yes, that's what I was thinking.

Do you want the gorri to restrict the "red bits" to its mushroom cap, or do they have red feet or legs as well?


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## freyar (Jul 31, 2013)

Papa's got to have red pants!


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## Cleon (Jul 31, 2013)

freyar said:


> Papa's got to have red pants!




I'm more in favour of only the head being red, but I'd go along with redlegs too.

Unless Nookie prefers an "only the head is red" approach too.

Now for the question of spots! Will the red bits have white spots like a fly agaric mushroom?


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## freyar (Aug 1, 2013)

Maybe for the youngest ones?


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## Cleon (Aug 2, 2013)

freyar said:


> Maybe for the youngest ones?




How about they get redder as they get older/more powerful, with the colour starting at the head? So a "new papa" has red splotches on its cap and white legs/boots, while a "grand papa" has a red head and boots with a few small white spots?


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## Nookie (Aug 3, 2013)

I like red spots at first and the oldest papas are full red.


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## freyar (Aug 3, 2013)

Sure, go for it!


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## Cleon (Aug 6, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I like red spots at first and the oldest papas are full red.




Works for me, but what about the "cap and boots" question?


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## freyar (Aug 7, 2013)

Starting at the cap is fine.


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## Nookie (Aug 10, 2013)

caps fine with me too.


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## Cleon (Aug 11, 2013)

Nookie said:


> caps fine with me too.




_A pale-blue creature the size and shape of a sprite. __ The top of its head  resembles the broad cap of a  mushroom and is covered in white and red skin. __Beneath this "cap" is a feline face with large dark eyes and many whiskers, both long catlike whiskers on its muzzle and lush chin-__whiskers akin to a beard__. __Its legs and feet are clad in mushroom-like  skin like the crown of its head._

The areas of red on a gorri's fungus-like "cap" and "boots" grow larger and larger as the gorri ages. These red markings start on the gorri's scalp but eventually appear on its boots. Freshly ripened gorri have a white cap with red spots and all-white legs. Fully mature gorri have red caps with white spots and white boots with red embellishments. The oldest (and often most powerful) gorri have solid red caps and boots.


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## freyar (Aug 12, 2013)

Very good!


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## Nookie (Aug 15, 2013)

I like it


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## Cleon (Aug 16, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I like it




I *update it*!


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## freyar (Aug 16, 2013)

Looks like we just need tactics for the gorri.  Maybe they focus on casting-type support?


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## Nookie (Aug 17, 2013)

Yeah they have a boatload of buff and utility stuff i see them as tactical suport.


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## Cleon (Aug 17, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Yeah they have a boatload of buff and utility stuff i see them as tactical suport.




My thinking was they'd create Fighting Fungi and rely on them to serve as frontline fighters, then hang back with whatever other shroomlings are in the combat, who the gorri augments with Battle Powder and Healing Spores.


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## Nookie (Aug 18, 2013)

works for me


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## freyar (Aug 21, 2013)

Tactics: Gorri shroomlings stay removed from active combat, creating Fighting Fungi to serve as their proxies in melee.  Then they hang back, supporting their urdin followers with Battle Spores and healing.


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## Cleon (Aug 21, 2013)

freyar said:


> Tactics: Gorri shroomlings stay removed from active combat, creating Fighting Fungi to serve as their proxies in melee.  Then they hang back, supporting their urdin followers with Battle Spores and healing.




Removing themselves from melee is an aspiration rather than a fact, suggesting the "stay" should have a "try" or "prefer" before it. Not so sure about the "remove" either, since it'd mean they're already in combat and are trying to leave it. Overall, using "avoid" would seem better.

I'd also use "shroomling allies" instead of "urdin followers", since they may be part of a ring with other gorri shroomlings.

Come to think of it, there's usually only a single gorri in a circle of urdin shroomling, so maybe we should phrase the tactics for a singular gorri.

We should also use lower case for the spore names, for the sake of consistency.

E.g.:

A Gorri shroomling tries to avoid active combat, creating fighting fungi to serve as its proxies in melee. The gorri hangs back,  supporting shroomling allies with battle spores and healing.


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## freyar (Aug 22, 2013)

Not "remove" as a verb, but "removed" as an adjective, meaning "remote; separate; not connected with; distinct from."  See here.  So I like "stay removed" or "try to stay removed" if you insist.    Other than that, I like your changes well enough.


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## Nookie (Aug 23, 2013)

changes look food to me as well.


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## Cleon (Aug 24, 2013)

freyar said:


> Not "remove" as a verb, but "removed" as an adjective, meaning "remote; separate; not connected with; distinct from."  See here.  So I like "stay removed" or "try to stay removed" if you insist.    Other than that, I like your changes well enough.




The substance of my objection is that the proposed wording says the gorri is in a particular condition (e.g. outside combat) and I don't much care for description/tactics that limit what the monster in question is doing when encountered.

The gorri might well be within melee range when encountered, after all.


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## Cleon (Aug 24, 2013)

Nookie said:


> changes look food to me as well.




Well I suppose it's not surprising something three apples high looks edible to you...


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## Nookie (Aug 25, 2013)

I'm doing my gargamel impression  seemed he always wanted to eat those smurfs or make them into gold or whatever.


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## freyar (Aug 26, 2013)

Well, generally I agree with you, Cleon, but I don't want to be obsessive about it.  Will this address your concerns?

Tactics: When possible, a gorri shroomling stays removed from active combat, creating fighting fungi to serve as its proxies in melee. Then it hangs back, supporting shroomling allies with battle spores and healing.


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## Cleon (Aug 26, 2013)

freyar said:


> Well, generally I agree with you, Cleon, but I don't want to be obsessive about it.  Will this address your concerns?
> 
> Tactics: When possible, a gorri shroomling stays removed from active combat, creating fighting fungi to serve as its proxies in melee. Then it hangs back, supporting shroomling allies with battle spores and healing.




The first line is fine, but I'd like it to have something in the next lines about what it does when it's not supporting allies.

How about:

When possible, a gorri shroomling stays removed from active combat,  creating fighting fungi to serve as its proxies in melee. It hangs  back to cast magic, spores and quills, often supporting shroomling allies with battle spores and healing.


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## freyar (Aug 26, 2013)

Sure, let's go with that.


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## Nookie (Aug 27, 2013)

I support Cleons revision.


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## Cleon (Aug 30, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I support Cleons revision.




I apply my revision to the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

So we just need to tweak the background text and we're done, by the looks of it.


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## Nookie (Sep 6, 2013)

Indeed it is


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## Cleon (Sep 6, 2013)

Nookie said:


> Indeed it is




So do any particular tweaks gain your favour?


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## freyar (Sep 6, 2013)

Well, we need to remove "Background" under the gorri and should probably say something like "Gorri shroomlings are the elders of the shroomling race, grown into leadership by the development of special abilities."


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## Cleon (Sep 9, 2013)

freyar said:


> Well, we need to remove "Background" under the gorri and should probably say something like "Gorri shroomlings are the elders of the shroomling race, grown into leadership by the development of special abilities."




I'll try to write up a rough draft later.


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## Cleon (Sep 9, 2013)

Cleon said:


> I'll try to write up a rough draft later.




Let's see...

Gorri are the elders of the shroomling race.  They occupy a revered leadership position, with each gorri usually  having a circle of up to twenty urdin under its care. Every season,  gorri leave their circles and gather together in a secret council ring  to discuss conditions in their forest. Should some calamity threaten the  safety of the shroomlings, the gorri gather in an "out of season" ring  to debate how to deal with it. Gorri are usually wiser and more  experienced than urdin, and their innate magical abilities are much  stronger.

The areas of red on a gorri's fungus-like "cap" and "boots" grow larger   and larger as the gorri ages. These red markings start on the gorri's   scalp but eventually appear on its boots. Freshly ripened gorri have a   white cap with red spots and all-white legs. Fully mature gorri have red   caps with white spots and white boots with red embellishments. The   oldest (and often most powerful) gorri have solid red caps and boots.
A gorri shroomling stands 2 to 3 feet tall and weighs about 3 pound.
​


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## freyar (Sep 10, 2013)

I see you wanted something more elaborate.   That will work, though I don't recall discussing the secret council rings.


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## Cleon (Sep 11, 2013)

freyar said:


> I see you wanted something more elaborate.




Elaborate? But that's the simple version. 



freyar said:


> That will work, though I don't recall discussing the secret council rings.




Funny, I don't remember typing the "a secret council" bit. We could modify that sentence. Also, upon reflection the last sentence about them being wiser and stronger doesn't really add much.

How's this modification:

Gorri are the elders of the shroomling race.  They occupy a revered  leadership position, with each gorri usually  having a circle of up to  twenty urdin under its care. Every season,  gorri leave their homes and gather together in council rings  to discuss conditions in  their forest. Should some calamity threaten the  safety of the  shroomlings, the gorri gather in an "out of season" ring  to debate how  to deal with it.

The areas of red on a gorri's fungus-like "cap" and "boots" grow larger    and larger as the gorri ages. These red markings start on the gorri's    scalp but eventually appear on its boots. Freshly ripened gorri have a    white cap with red spots and all-white legs. Fully mature gorri have  red   caps with white spots and white boots with red embellishments. The    oldest (and often most powerful) gorri have solid red caps and boots.


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## freyar (Sep 12, 2013)

Works for me.


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## Cleon (Sep 15, 2013)

freyar said:


> Works for me.




Might as well update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.

Is that it then?

Better wait for Nookie before we sign off on this beastie.


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## Cleon (Sep 15, 2013)

Cleon said:


> Might as well update the *Shroomling Working Draft*.




Just noticed and fixed a typo (A "were" that should be "where").

Still waiting for Nookie.


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## freyar (Sep 24, 2013)

Bumping this for  [MENTION=83645]Nookie[/MENTION] to find...


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## Nookie (Sep 24, 2013)

I think it looks good and finished. Shall we do another?


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## Cleon (Sep 25, 2013)

Nookie said:


> I think it looks good and finished. Shall we do another?




Glad to hear it!

Might as well concentrate on the "*Foxdragon*" then, I suppose.


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## Nookie (Sep 25, 2013)

If that the one you want to do. Im open to stat up other peoples pictures as well if they seem interesting and cool. I thought the fox dragon was kinda rocking.


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## Cleon (Sep 25, 2013)

Nookie said:


> If that the one you want to do. Im open to stat up other peoples pictures as well if they seem interesting and cool. I thought the fox dragon was kinda rocking.




I think we'd better stick to one Homebrew at a time.

Freyar doesn't seem to have much spare time at the moment.


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