# 1d2-4? = -2 Damage?



## Tonguez (Dec 19, 2002)

What does 1d2 - 4 mean (its the claw damage of a cat)

if I roll a 2 and subtract 4 do I do -2 Damage?


----------



## IceBear (Dec 19, 2002)

You always do at least 1 point of damage.

IceBear


----------



## ruleslawyer (Dec 19, 2002)

What IceBear said.

The main reason that the -4 even deserves mention is because one will occassionally get positive modifiers to damage. Say the creature at issue has _bull's strength_ cast upon it and gains +4 Strength, for a +2 damage bonus. Its damage will now be 1d2-2 (still a minimum of 1). If, OTOH, it gets a super-strong double-Empowered _bull's strength_, for a +10 Strength bonus, then its damage would rise to 1d2+1, which is a 2-3 hp damage range.


----------



## (Psi)SeveredHead (Dec 19, 2002)

The cat could fail to do damage if the victim has DR 
Otherwise the cat will do at least 1 point of damage.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 19, 2002)

Creature size = Tiny so claw size = 1d2.  And it's strength makes it's damage modifier -4.  So it does 1 point of damage per scratch.


----------



## The It's Man (Dec 19, 2002)

Kitten fights?


----------



## Pax (Dec 19, 2002)

The It's Man said:
			
		

> *Kitten fights?
> **image omitted**
> *




ROFLMAO!  That's a great one!!!


----------



## kenjib (Dec 19, 2002)

Does a critical hit from a kitten do 1 or 2 points of damage?


----------



## Dr. Zoom (Dec 20, 2002)

kenjib said:
			
		

> *Does a critical hit from a kitten do 1 or 2 points of damage? *



Depends on whether or not it clawed out your eye.


----------



## James McMurray (Dec 20, 2002)

The crit would do 2d2 - 8 = 1.


----------



## Jeremy (Dec 20, 2002)

You double the negative damage?


----------



## James McMurray (Dec 20, 2002)

Yep. When rolling a crit, all damage (base and modifiers) is doubled.


----------



## Piratecat (Dec 20, 2002)

James McMurray said:
			
		

> *The crit would do 2d2 - 8 = 1. *




Nope. It's 1d2-4, twice, with a minimum of 1 pt. each time. Thus, 2 pts from a crit!


----------



## James McMurray (Dec 20, 2002)

I'd like to see a rules backup for that. All I've ever seen is you double the number of dice rolled, and you double the bonuses (or penalties in this case). The rule (AFAIK) states that any successful attack does a minimum of 1 point of damage, not that any successful attack does a minimum of 1 point of damage per die.

Of course, given that we're talking about a cat here, and the damage is 1 or 2 points, I doubt anyone (except a commoner) will really care.


----------



## Azure Trance (Dec 20, 2002)

James McMurray said:
			
		

> *I'd like to see a rules backup for that. All I've ever seen is you double the number of dice rolled, and you double the bonuses (or penalties in this case). The rule (AFAIK) states that any successful attack does a minimum of 1 point of damage, not that any successful attack does a minimum of 1 point of damage per die.
> 
> Of course, given that we're talking about a cat here, and the damage is 1 or 2 points, I doubt anyone (except a commoner) will really care.  *




Em ... I thought it was this way as well?


----------



## SylverFlame (Dec 20, 2002)

Technically speaking, the damage is rolled twice, but SEPERATLY. Therefore, the attack would do 2 pts of damage, excluding any other magics.

Love the kitty pic The It's Man.

Also, who would've thought a basic question would expand into a rules debate? I love this site.


----------



## Guilt Puppy (Dec 20, 2002)

To expand on what other people have said: It's that way to account for any other bonuses to damage, or increases in damage die the cat might happen to accrue (through a variety of means, mainly spell effects). Basically, so that you can't buff up a cat to the point that it's doing real damage, unless you buff it a LOT... I don't know what the rules state about a critical in that situation, or if they're clear about it either way. I'd probably go the 2 damage route, cause a well-placed cat scratch can be pretty vicious 

Also, I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone: A cat has a higher challenge rating than a kobold. Which makes me so, so happy.


----------



## demon_jr (Dec 20, 2002)

Guilt Puppy said:
			
		

> *Also, I'd just like to take this opportunity to remind everyone: A cat has a higher challenge rating than a kobold. Which makes me so, so happy. *




But can a cat gain levels in sorcerer, fighter, etc.?

Beware the 20th level cat bard!


----------



## Hypersmurf (Dec 20, 2002)

> *Technically speaking, the damage is rolled twice, but SEPERATLY. Therefore, the attack would do 2 pts of damage, excluding any other magics.*




It's similar to the minimum-of-1 rule for Skill Points per level.

A half-elf fighter with an intelligence of 9 gets 1 skill point per level.  The same half-elf with an intelligence of 7 gets 1 skill point per level, because 2 - 2 (minimum 1) is 1.

A _human_ fighter with an intelligence of 4 gets two skill points per level... because 2 - 3 (minimum 1) is 1, plus a bonus point for being human is 2.

Someone with a -4 Strength modifier rolling a Critical with a Scythe does a minimum of 4 damage : 2d4-4(min 1) + 2d4-4(min 1) + 2d4-4(min 1) + 2d4-4(min 1).

-Hyp.


----------



## TwoSix (Dec 20, 2002)

demon_jr said:
			
		

> *
> 
> But can a cat gain levels in sorcerer, fighter, etc.?
> 
> ...




Gee, thanks, now I have that Meow Mix commercial running through my head!


----------



## WizarDru (Dec 20, 2002)

demon_jr said:
			
		

> *Beware the 20th level cat bard!*




Hey, he convinced the queen, right?  It's all about the shoes, baby, it's all about the shoes.


----------



## SylverFlame (Dec 21, 2002)

> Beware the 20th level cat bard




Anyone else ever heard about Puss in Boots? Strikes me as a Bard or Swashbuckler type. Scarry thought... NEW NPC TIME!!


----------



## James McMurray (Dec 21, 2002)

SylverFlame said:
			
		

> *Technically speaking, the damage is rolled twice, but SEPERATLY. Therefore, the attack would do 2 pts of damage, excluding any other magics.
> 
> Love the kitty pic The It's Man.
> 
> Also, who would've thought a basic question would expand into a rules debate? I love this site.  *




Can you find a page number or a quote from the SRD about that?


----------



## SylverFlame (Dec 22, 2002)

_From the D&D 3e SRD_


> A critical hit means that the attacker rolls for damage more than once, as indicated by the weapon description for the weapon that scored the threat, with all the attacker's usual bonuses, and add the rolls together to get total damage.




There you go James McMurray. It says you roll more than once and that they are added together. For me, that's seperate damage. Of course, I can see how it is open for interpretation.


----------



## James McMurray (Dec 23, 2002)

Thanks! As I said, unless you're a commoner, it shouldn't really matter all that much, but its nice to know.


----------



## Guilt Puppy (Dec 23, 2002)

demon_jr said:
			
		

> *But can a cat gain levels in sorcerer, fighter, etc.?
> 
> Beware the 20th level cat bard!
> *




An _awaken_ed cat? I'd allow it!

On an unrelated note, the Dread Pirate class was in Song & Silence, right?


----------



## shilsen (Dec 23, 2002)

Guilt Puppy said:
			
		

> *On an unrelated note, the Dread Pirate class was in Song & Silence, right? *




Yes. You're really thinking of Piratecat, aren't you?


----------

