# Does Detect Magic detect charmed individuals?



## The Crimster (Jun 18, 2002)

That pretty much sums it up.  Wizard PC encounters charmed PC, wizard casts detect magic - does the PC show up as 'magical'?


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## hong (Jun 18, 2002)

Well, yes. Why wouldn't they? The various charm spells don't have duration "instantaneous". Mind you, it may be obscured by all the other magic bits and pieces they have, so one more enchantment aura may or may not stand out....


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## The Crimster (Jun 18, 2002)

Well two reasons:

1)  It means that as a DM I can't do dirty tricks with charmed PC's and NPC's if they're detecting magic at the slightest WHIFF of something wrong;

2)  Wasn't there / Isn't there a spell called Detect Charm? Somewhere? I could have sworn....


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## Cougar (Jun 19, 2002)

*Rebuttal from player in Crimster's campaign*

Let me append this question by asking if ANY spells with a duration beyond instantaneous cast on a creature radiate magic, like Protection from Normal Missles or Mage Armor? If so, what is the difference, since the spell descriptions says nothing about this?

Would a NPC using Detect Magic be detected by another character also using Detect Magic?

If the answer is yes, than the only reason Charm Person would not be detected would be to protect a plot line.

A wizard casting Detect Magic on a character would have to suspect that character was charmed. Even so, it isn't definitive proof that a character IS charmed, but under the influence of some spell. 

A PC that detects magic on fellow PCs and NPCs every time they reappear after leaving his presence is a paranoid PC and player, and probably not much fun.

We also played the charm effect TOTALLY wrong. See page 73 of the DMG for details.


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## mikebr99 (Jun 19, 2002)

I'll second the 'Yes' vote...

Charm Person has a duration of 1 hour/caster level... therefore it is up and running until it is dispelled or the time has run out.

Detect magic would, after the 3rd round of concentration, sense a 'faint' magical aura... and after a DC 16 spellcraft check the detect magic'er would know it was a faint enchantment aura.


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## Baalzebul (Jun 19, 2002)

Cougar said:
			
		

> *Let me append this question by asking if ANY spells with a duration beyond instantaneous cast on a creature radiate magic, like Protection from Normal Missles or Mage Armor? If so, what is the difference, since the spell descriptions says nothing about this?*




I'm not sure what you mean by 'the difference' in that question, but I'll answer it generally. Any functioning spells in range of Detect Magic can be detected. The Detect Magic spell description outlines the process for this. Spells like Charm Person, Protection from Normal Missiles and Mage Armor would all be functioning spells while their duration lasts. When their duration finishes they leave a lingering aura which shows up as Dim when scanning with Detect Magic. While spells with instantaneous durations happen too quickly to be caught with Detect Magic they also leave lingering auras.



			
				Cougar said:
			
		

> *Would a NPC using Detect Magic be detected by another character also using Detect Magic?
> 
> If the answer is yes, than the only reason Charm Person would not be detected would be to protect a plot line.*




The answer is yes, but there is another reason the Charm Person could be masked from detection. The Detect Magic spell description mentions that magical areas, multiple types of magic, or strong local magical emanations may confuse or conceal weaker auras. As a first level spell Charm Person has a pretty weak aura, so it's quite possible that if a Charmed person is carrying other magical items or spell effects that are pretty powerful the aura of Charm Person would be drowned in the noise of the other auras.



			
				Cougar said:
			
		

> *A wizard casting Detect Magic on a character would have to suspect that character was charmed. Even so, it isn't definitive proof that a character IS charmed, but under the influence of some spell.
> 
> A PC that detects magic on fellow PCs and NPCs every time they reappear after leaving his presence is a paranoid PC and player, and probably not much fun.*




It is borderline metagaming I suppose, unless the character is generally paranoid. One of my players used to play like this. He would run a variety of detection spells upon the return of other PCs if they left the campfire to relieve themselves. I treated this as being a character flaw of his actual character (even though he was metagaming) and had a few of their enemies figure this out over the course of a campaign. When those enemies started using the predictability of his paranoia against the group he began to ease up on this behaviour. He's still a very cautious player, but it's nowhere near as bad as before.


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## mikebr99 (Jun 19, 2002)

Baalzebul said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> One of my players used to play like this. He would run a variety of detection spells upon the return of other PCs if they left the campfire to relieve themselves. I treated this as being a character flaw of his actual character (even though he was metagaming) and had a few of their enemies figure this out over the course of a campaign. *




Heh...

Did he have any combat spells left after all the paranoid stuff?


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## dcollins (Jun 19, 2002)

The Crimster said:
			
		

> *2)  Wasn't there / Isn't there a spell called Detect Charm? Somewhere? I could have sworn.... *




Yes, in 1st/2nd Edition AD&D (as a cleric-only 2nd-level spell).


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## Gromm (Jun 19, 2002)

If its an issue cast non-detection on him.

As far as most charms go, its pretty obvious to most people anyway. Suddenly Greyhold the Blackhearted is the Paladin's best friend in the whole world. 
Ummm... a bit suspicious.


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## Darklone (Jun 19, 2002)

We use semipermanent magic items with prolongued duration. Those can be cloaked easily with Nystuls  undetectable aura


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## jasper (Jun 19, 2002)

the srd list a 1st level spell having a faint strength. 
The next chart shows spells with faint aura strength have a duration of 1d6 minutes. So 
Charm Person 1st spell. 6 minutes go by no more aura.


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## Macbrea (Jun 19, 2002)

That listing of time is residual aura even after the spell has ended.  Its so your players can look at a person as say, "well, it appears he was charmed, before he died."  Those aura durations are there for investigative purposes. 

If you come on the spell while its in effect you will detect a faint aura. As long as a bright aura isn't foreshadowing it.  It isn't that big of deal to allow detect magic to detect charm. As there has to be some way to do it. But remember they have to concentrate on that person for 18 seconds.  This isn't something that is going to happen in passing.  And at higher levels most characters are going to be littered with spells and auras.


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## The Crimster (Jun 19, 2002)

> We also played the charm effect TOTALLY wrong. See page 73 of the DMG for details.




I don't have the DMG in front of me, monsieur Cougar.  Could you elaborate a bit for me?


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## Cougar (Jun 19, 2002)

The most important point is that the charmed character is not a minion or mindless. 

The game effect for combat would be that the charmed character would only fight if old friends (which he would retain his friendships with) were threatening his new friends. Even so, the charmed character uses the least lethal effective method available to him.

Also, personally, I believe charm should only be effective for the caster, especially if the charmed character is forced to fight friends. The charmed character is friends only with the caster, not his allies, although he would certainly be neutral to them. In my opinion, the charmed person would only protect the caster, especially when fighting friends to do so. The way Charm Person was played on Saturday was WAY above the power of a first level spell. Of course, this is my opinion.

I think this is where the death of the caster of a Charm Person spell comes into play. True, the spell doesn't end, but when a friend dies, I don't think the spell transfers to it's allies. Of course, as I said, this is my interpretation, but as we played it the spell is MUCH more powerful then first level.


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