# d20 Transformers...



## Psion (Mar 3, 2004)

... sort of.

In case you missed it, from FFG:



> Mechamorphosis RPG - $14.95
> Enter a world of devastatingly powerful robotic warriors that hide among us as cars, jets, and everyday objects in this d20 mini-game. Some are terrorist aggressors, enacting evil schemes to dominate human kind. Others are self-declared defenders of the human race, fighting their mechanical foes and avoiding the military forces of the fearful and desperate people they are trying to protect. Their battles rage from hidden desert bases to active volcanoes, from the depths of the sea to the frontiers of space. In Mechamorphosis, the warrior doesn't pilot the robot; the warrior is the robot!




Link


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## spider_minion (Mar 3, 2004)

Dude, that is SO cool!

Is it the next book in the Horizon series?


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## Kesh (Mar 3, 2004)

*cough*BESM d20*cough*


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## Lizard (Mar 3, 2004)

Psion said:
			
		

> ... sort of.
> 
> In case you missed it, from FFG:
> 
> ...




I'll be getting it. I'm marginally irked I didn't get to write for it, I mean, for Prime's sake, I've got Transformers FANFIC all over the web, mumble grumble....


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## RodneyThompson (Mar 4, 2004)

I'm...intrigued, we'll say that much. It's not even an homage to Transformers, it's a full blown yoinking of concept! Not that that's a bad thing, since I doubt we'd ever see a licensed Transformers RPG. A couple of years ago I was kicking around some concepts for a d20 Transformers one-shot, and it got me really into the fan sites and everything, so I think there's a lot that could be done with this.


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## Golem2176 (Mar 4, 2004)

Kick-Ass! I'll ad this to my to buy list. This will be number 2, right after Dark Lore.


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## malladin (Mar 4, 2004)

Drat and Botheration!

I was going to write something like this!!

Ah well, at least I've got my He-Man idea to go with .

Cheerio,

Ben, Malladin's Gate
(DarkLore Guru)


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## beta-ray (Mar 5, 2004)

Sounds... interesting. I like the Transformers and the Beastly followups... Just hope they can pull it off and make it fun. I also think mecha games are cool, but less cool if the piloting rules make the game a drag. Wonder if there are any legal issues with a concept so close to an established property?

Til all are one...


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## Ranger REG (Mar 5, 2004)

Just as long they don't use artworks and trademarks from the known franchise, they should be fine.


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## IllusionaryLunch (Mar 9, 2004)

Transformers PS2 game.

I was hoping for XBox or PC though.


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## rvaughn_ffg (Mar 9, 2004)

Kesh said:
			
		

> *cough*BESM d20*cough*




Actually, comparing our concept to the existing d20 Mecha books was the big question on whether to go ahead with this Horizon project.

Investigation revealed that nearly every Mecha option has three things in common, none of which lend themselves to the kind of game we want to make:

1) The mechas are equipment, not characters. At best in non-d20 BESM, you make a character that owns a mecha, and that mecha can be controlled via remote control, it can be "semi-autonomous", meaning it can operate without supervision but lacks emotions and desires, or it can be "intelligent", meaning it has self-initiative and creativity but remains loyal to the character who owns it. None of these allow you to play the mecha as your main character, much less advance it as if it were a normal character.

d20 BESM is, as you suggest, much closer. It allows you to play a giant robot with some limited customizing options, but it's essentially a character class. The creature has no Constitution, and generally gets a generic set of advancements like armor, flight, massive damage, etc. Nowhere near as flexible as making your favorite giant transforming robot from cartoon, comic book, or action figure fame. This leads me to . . .

2) Scale. In general, mecha games (and d20 mecha games in particular) use Medium humanoids as a baseline, and work up from there in terms of power scale. This means that trying to play a group of giant robots involves huge amounts of damage, lots of DR, complicated combat rules, and lots of vehicle design buy points. Bleh. We want to be able to make a little guy that turns into a hatchback (1st level), idolizing the hummer or the tank (5th level), all of whom team up against the attack helicopter (10th level). It should be as easy to create and play those characters as it is a 1st, 5th, or 10th level human fighter, elven wizard, or halfling rogue. Our combat rules will look just like d20 humanoid-scale, with some cool weapon and shapeshifting fighting tricks, and we'll probably use the vehicle combat rules from Redline and Dragonstar, both of which have proven themselves as versatile, intuitive, and user-friendly. Meanwhile, since the scale advances, humans will be on a par with toads or rats or other non-attack-capable Tiny creatures in D&D.

3) Advancement and Game Mechanics. The norm for advancing mechs is to upgrade them with mechanical add-ons. How would a mech "advance" following the normal creature class advancement rules, one might ask. As a machine, wouldn't they just put on new parts, rather than going up in level? Using levels, since that's what creatures do, not machines, would seem illogical. At least, that's what some folks might think. Actually, part of the very exciting aspect of this game is that, in fact, d20 isn't logical for anything else! The fact that you can fight to 0 hp without every suffering pain or shock penalties, the fact that armor and dex add up to AC rather than dex being AC and armor being damage reduction, the fact that you somehow miraculously gain more health and hit points every time you increase your prowess and skills . . . none of these aspects of d20 are realistic for any kind of organic creature. They're all abstractions for the sake of simplicity. But conveniently enough, they work perfectly well with characters that are inorganic, mechanical beings. It's simply too good to pass up. 

So, there you go. Happy to answer any more questions. One of the key things for making sure this book does well is that A) retailers tend not to re-order softcovers, thinking of them as just another periodical, and B) mecha isn't the best seller ever, so store owners might not know what sets this book apart from the other mecha books. If you're excited about the book, please do let your local game stores know, and encourage them to keep it and the other Horizon books in stock. If they don't know you folks like 'em, they won't keep 'em around.

Thanks,


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## Ranger REG (Mar 9, 2004)

This might be the first _Horizon_ series product I'll purchase, but I want to know what sort of ruleset you're using? 3e/3.5e or Modern? Is this a standalone OGL product or do I require one of Wizards' core game book?

Are there any new rules or material you want to advertise now?


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## rvaughn_ffg (Mar 9, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> This might be the first _Horizon_ series product I'll purchase, but I want to know what sort of ruleset you're using? 3e/3.5e or Modern? Is this a standalone OGL product or do I require one of Wizards' core game book?
> 
> Are there any new rules or material you want to advertise now?




I can't spill any beans on specific material at this time. We certainly will be posting tid-bits like that on our rants page in the near future, however.

To answer your more general question, we will be using 3.0/3.5 (I don't like to say we're using 3.5, as that makes it sound like you need the updated rulebooks to play our games. The changes between the two are minimal enough, especially since we use new races, classes, skills, feats, and weapons, that any version of d20 would work as your sourcebook). 

Given the space limitations of the Horizon line, we can't go into explaining the d20 system. So it would be handy to have a PHB or DMG available during play, just to check on rules interpretations that might come up. For instance, we won't define "Blindsight" or "Flat-footed" or what have you. Therefore, technically all you'll need is a print-out of the SRD.

Thanks for the interest,


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## Imhotepthewise (Mar 11, 2004)

I have two of the four Horizon series so far (I don't think I could interest anyone I know into playing Grimm, and Deathnet looked more flexible to me than Virtual).  I think the two I have are well worth my coin.  I look forward to the Horizon mecha game.


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## Von Ether (Mar 11, 2004)

I think eventually most gamers will have at least one Horizon book if the series makes it up to 10 or so. 

For me, this is what d20 is really all about. Cool mods to your game that push the envelope. I also think that every new Horizon game, they end up getting more polished, that the experience of the previous books pays off. For example, comparing my Redline book to Spellsling, I see that they are making some informal, but regular guidelines on abbrevated skill lists and ways to deal with healing in low magic worlds.

And oh, the books are $15 for a decent attempt at a min-game, not bad.


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## Ranger REG (Mar 11, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> To answer your more general question, we will be using 3.0/3.5 (I don't like to say we're using 3.5, as that makes it sound like you need the updated rulebooks to play our games. The changes between the two are minimal enough, especially since we use new races, classes, skills, feats, and weapons, that any version of d20 would work as your sourcebook).



That's okay. I don't want to pick up 3.5e core rulebooks yet.

It'll be interesting to see what sort of mecha rules you are offering.


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## molonel (Mar 11, 2004)

This is so cool. I just added it to my buy list, as well. Where do you guys recommend purchasing it?

Also, on a side note, I've started lurking here. I've contributed a couple of threads, mostly questions, but this forum is one of the coolest d20 forums I've found. There are a lot of developers here, and reading the post by one of the guys who helped to develop Mechamorphosis was ... cool.

Getting to see reviews from the guys who wrote things like Blood and Fist is also cool.

Hope to say more in the future, but d20 Modern is a system I'm only just learning. I hope to run my first campaign later this year.

Nuff said.


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## Cullyn (Mar 11, 2004)

Being a huge fan of big robots in general and TransFormers specifically I can say that I'm *very* excited by this book.  I'm just about to start a mecha based campaign and I have to agree that while d20 Mecha does touch on transformation and whatnot, they don't really give anything to the GM as far as the mecha itself being the character.  I'm sure an industrious GM could work around that, but frankly, I'm lazy and like have ideas and rulesets presented to me. 

I am definately going to buy this one.  Keep it up FFG.


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## thundershot (Mar 12, 2004)

My quibble (and I'm a HUGE TF fan) is changing the standard d20 size catagories... I like to mix things up a bit, and changing the size standards makes this game incompatable with other d20 characters. I like being able to draw from many books to get the desired results with only having to tweak one or two things.

I'll still pick it up, regardless, but how much USE it gets will depend on compatability, as I don't have the TIME to run umpteen campaigns...


Thanks
Chris


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## Von Ether (Mar 12, 2004)

thundershot said:
			
		

> My quibble (and I'm a HUGE TF fan) is changing the standard d20 size catagories... I like to mix things up a bit, and changing the size standards makes this game incompatable with other d20 characters. I like being able to draw from many books to get the desired results with only having to tweak one or two things.
> 
> I'll still pick it up, regardless, but how much USE it gets will depend on compatability, as I don't have the TIME to run umpteen campaigns...




Personally, I can't see the Horizon messing with something that basic. When they did their first book, Redline, the vehicle rules used D&D sizes and such. Technically, you could port the vehicles rules over to any other d20 game if you liked them better.

While they have the cool habit of condensing the skill list (which I like), their biggest changes are in making new classes and related funky abilities to reflect the genre. So the classes is where you will have to keep an eye on it.

On the flip side, I'll have to tell you that if you pass up on a d20 game simply becuase it's not plug and play, you are missing out on some good stuff. 

Of course, I have a built-in solution for "umpteen games." I have fickle players. It seems every two months they get bored and want to something new, mostly after luster of their "kewl powers" wears off.


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## thundershot (Mar 13, 2004)

I said I wasn't going to pass it up... I said that if it's not "plug and play" then I probably won't get much chance to use it. My wife and I both work full time jobs, and two of our gaming group are full time students and work part time. It's very difficult to coordinate a good day for gaming...

I have Redline, Grimm, Virtual, and am waiting for Spellslinger, so I sure won't pass this up. I was just making a comment.. 


Chris


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## rvaughn_ffg (Mar 15, 2004)

Von Ether said:
			
		

> Of course, I have a built-in solution for "umpteen games." I have fickle players. It seems every two months they get bored and want to something new, mostly after luster of their "kewl powers" wears off.




There's a side of me that feels the same way. Just as players enjoy trying out new games and "kewl powers," I enjoy developing them. That's what has made the Horizon line such a blast to do.


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## Von Ether (Mar 15, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> There's a side of me that feels the same way. Just as players enjoy trying out new games and "kewl powers," I enjoy developing them. That's what has made the Horizon line such a blast to do.




And you guys are doing it well. I especially appreciate the tips in Spellslinger on how to modify the setting for "realism" and for "fanstical" settings.


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## thundershot (Mar 26, 2004)

This is still the only thing that makes me nervous.



> 2) Scale. In general, mecha games (and d20 mecha games in particular) use Medium humanoids as a baseline, and work up from there in terms of power scale. This means that trying to play a group of giant robots involves huge amounts of damage, lots of DR, complicated combat rules, and lots of vehicle design buy points. Bleh. We want to be able to make a little guy that turns into a hatchback (1st level), idolizing the hummer or the tank (5th level), all of whom team up against the attack helicopter (10th level). It should be as easy to create and play those characters as it is a 1st, 5th, or 10th level human fighter, elven wizard, or halfling rogue. Our combat rules will look just like d20 humanoid-scale, with some cool weapon and shapeshifting fighting tricks, and we'll probably use the vehicle combat rules from Redline and Dragonstar, both of which have proven themselves as versatile, intuitive, and user-friendly. Meanwhile, since the scale advances, humans will be on a par with toads or rats or other non-attack-capable Tiny creatures in D&D.




 I *want* to be able to have my d20 modern characters (or D&D for that matter) be able to meet up with and interact (or even fight) robot characters. Never underestimate humanity's resourcefulness. We don't get an extra feat and an extra skill point every level for nothin'. 


Chris


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 5, 2004)

*Sample art*

Got some of the first robot concept illustrations http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/rants.html in from one of our two big artists, Matt Kuphaldt (the other is going to be Joe Ng). Both have done lots of work for Dreamwave and, I believe, 88 MPH, so I'm looking forward to seeing what they'll do with the illo descrips I sent 'em. Should be a fine-looking book. Joe is scheduled to do the cover.

For some more details on Mechamorphosis and who the attached bad boys are, check out my rant on the FFG site at http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/rants.html.


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## jaults (Apr 6, 2004)

Those are beautiful. Where should I send the check? Can I just make it payable directly to you, Rob?
 *Jason giggles with glee* 

 Jason


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## Von Ether (Apr 6, 2004)

*Just like baseball cards ...*

FFG just makes this whole series of books worth collecting. Keep turning d20 on its ear guys!!!!


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 6, 2004)

jaults said:
			
		

> Those are beautiful. Where should I send the check? Can I just make it payable directly to you, Rob?
> *Jason giggles with glee*
> 
> Jason




Jason-

We here at FFG believe you should support your local gaming store as much as possible. So much as I'd like to take your money, spend it at the Wizard's Citadel instead and tell 'em to order the Horizon line so you can buy Mechamorphosis .


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## thundershot (Apr 7, 2004)

Anything else on the sizing issues and compatability with other d20 games? This would be so great to introduce into a d20 modern world. That's what level adjustments and hit dice are for..  


Thanks
Chris (who can't wait for a preview!)


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## Sir Elton (Apr 7, 2004)

There are somethings I won't pick up.

This game is one of them.


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## Von Ether (Apr 7, 2004)

Sir Elton said:
			
		

> There are somethings I won't pick up.
> 
> This game is one of them.




While I may not find a group of adults to play this game, my son is with me for the summer and he's 12. Besides just loving how the Horizon line reinterpets the d20 system with every release, this would be a fun intro for him to rpging.


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 7, 2004)

thundershot said:
			
		

> Anything else on the sizing issues and compatability with other d20 games? This would be so great to introduce into a d20 modern world. That's what level adjustments and hit dice are for..




We've decided to go with a size alteration chart. Basically, our scale will differ from the normal d20 scale by an order of x10 or so. That makes your average robot (sportscar, economy car, van) Medium, your average mini-bot (Mini Cooper, motorcycle, ATV) Small, and robots that morph into jets, semis, and construction equipment would be Large.

That makes humans Tiny, I believe, though don't quote me on that. The HD/HP differential will be made up for with special DR rules and bonus hit points so a 1st-level mechamorph is quite resistant and sturdy compared to a 1st-level human.


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## thundershot (Apr 8, 2004)

So.... no conversion notes or anything for someone who wants this stuff for normal d20? I might just have to stick with d20 Mecha for that... it was just a pain, is all...



Chris


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 8, 2004)

thundershot said:
			
		

> So.... no conversion notes or anything for someone who wants this stuff for normal d20? I might just have to stick with d20 Mecha for that... it was just a pain, is all...




Oh, yes, definitely going to be conversion notes. Sorry, I meant to imply that. The "size alteration chart" will be a sort of "Here's what it looks like in d20, here's what it looks like in Mechamorphosis." So there will be rules for porting your pitiful humans (err . . . sorry, must've been channeling a gigantic megalomaniacal morphing robot for a second there . . . I meant "brave heroes") into Mechamorphosis terms, as well as for porting courageous and insidious mechamorphs into your d20 modern campaign.


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## mistergone (Apr 9, 2004)

I personally prefer different takes on D20 and don't mind if the scaling is changed. It's what makes these kinda of products worthwhile and interesting, to me at least.


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## Tonguez (Apr 9, 2004)

The Transformers have meet and fought the GI Joes with the Joes being able to hold there own against the giant robots. So my question is simply in this system can a CR 10 human with enough weapons/equipment fight (and potentially beat) a CR 10 Robot?
The only way the product is going to see longevity and/or use IMC is if this is possible...


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## WanderingMonster (Apr 9, 2004)

Von Ether said:
			
		

> While I may not find a group of adults to play this game, my son is with me for the summer and he's 12. Besides just loving how the Horizon line reinterpets the d20 system with every release, this would be a fun intro for him to rpging.



I will have no problem finding adults to play this game.  Now they just need to make Thundercats d20.


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## Sammael (Apr 9, 2004)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> The Transformers have meet and fought the GI Joes with the Joes being able to hold there own against the giant robots.



This was in the comic TF universe. In the cartoons, humans were rarely, if ever, able to do any kind of damage to the Transformers in open combat. Bullets and human-designed lasers simply bounce off TF's plating. I suppose an RPG or stinger missile would be more harmful, but not by a large margin.


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 9, 2004)

Tonguez said:
			
		

> The Transformers have meet and fought the GI Joes with the Joes being able to hold there own against the giant robots. So my question is simply in this system can a CR 10 human with enough weapons/equipment fight (and potentially beat) a CR 10 Robot?
> The only way the product is going to see longevity and/or use IMC is if this is possible...




Well, I've got a couple of responses to this interesting question . . .

1) Those were Transformers and Joes. These are mechamorphs and, well, nameless military guys. Despite the comparisons made this is, of course, not a Transformers or G.I.Joe license RPG.

2) The transformers-joes concept is a fairly new addition to the genre. Much more true to the giant-battling-intelligent-transforming-robot genre is the theme of the robots basically stomping the crap out of any human military forces sent their way. If the humans could face up to the Tyrants (the evil megalomaniacal warlike mechamorphs), why would they need the help of the Exiles (the courageous defenders-of-earth mechamorphs)?

3) In my experience and remembrances of the genre, there <b>are</b> a rare few instances of humans taking on the robots and winning. Wiley flesh-worms that get ahold of one of the robots' weapons, perhaps, or a prodigy technological genius that designs his own suit of battle armor or an electrical weapon that shorts out the robots . . . however, these are plot hooks and unique NPC concepts, not common occurrences. If there is room, we already have plans to include setting material that describes an elite military unit with just such capabilities.

4) As you make reference to by using the phrase "enough weapons/equipment," the validity of CR can seriously crumble in any game with high-tech weaponry. Give a mechamorph a human foe without any weapons, whether he's Snake-Eyes or not, and you end up with a Godzilla vs. Bambi replay. On the other hand, put a mook in the control seat of a humongous long-range auto-targeting cannon that can get through a mechamorph's DR, and the bot better duck for cover. We're therefore toying with the idea of including, just as there is a size-translation chart, a CR-translation chart that includes equipment CR bumps for humans with big guns.

That's my shpiel. Thanks for the comments and feedback, we'll be sure to take it into consideration during the development process.


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## slingbld (Apr 9, 2004)

I'd hafta agree. Humans & the 'bots are not meant to be on a level playing field. I've been a Transformers fan since issue one of a "4 issue limited series" was released all the way up to issue 100, then add in the headmasters, GI Joe vs TF, TF Universe & TF: The Movie. As well, I've got the entire television run on cassette & am converting that to DVD as they are released. 
Humans rarely ever were able to stand up to a direct assault from the TFs. 
They are naturaly metalic, well armed & armored by comparison to the squishy human form. 
Heck, *BUMBLEBEE* the smallest of all the Autobots stood about 8-9' tall in 'bot form!
I've got no problems with humans being none to powerfull next to a TF, generally speaking. Now there are exceptions (in the comic, there was a human names "The Mechanic" that showed up in the mid 20's issues that realy wrecked a few Autobots....  

Slingbld~


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## thundershot (Apr 10, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> Oh, yes, definitely going to be conversion notes. Sorry, I meant to imply that. The "size alteration chart" will be a sort of "Here's what it looks like in d20, here's what it looks like in Mechamorphosis." So there will be rules for porting your pitiful humans (err . . . sorry, must've been channeling a gigantic megalomaniacal morphing robot for a second there . . . I meant "brave heroes") into Mechamorphosis terms, as well as for porting courageous and insidious mechamorphs into your d20 modern campaign.





THAT is what I wanted to hear.  That means the book will be usable, rather than be a good read.  I simply don't have time to have multiple styles of games going on at once, and this should be interesting... With Level Adjustments, it wouldn't be out of the question to have, say, a D&D Wizard or Fighter taking on a lower level robot (I always loved "The Decepticon in King Arthur's Court"). Level adjustments and hardness are the keys.. yess....



Thanks
Chris


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## Green Knight (Apr 10, 2004)

This is SUCH a shameless rip-off of Transformers... 















...and I* LIKE IT!*  

This is DEFINITELY a must-have, for me. It makes my head hurt to think that WoTC could EASILY publish a Transformers RPG, due to the fact that both it and Transformers are owned by Hasbro, yet they don't do it. So yeah, I'll take some Exile/Tyrant action in lieu of Autobot/Decepticon action. Not like I won't change the names, anyway.  Then again, with the way the most recent Transformers series' piss me off, I may very well use the books setting if it's good. Of course, I can always create my own Transformers continuity (And why not? The comics and the cartoons have themselves created somewhere in the area of 532 different continuities  ). Or I could create my own world. I've been considering using the D20 Modern rules to create a world similar to Rifts, right after the aftermath of some kind of magical event which brings slews of non-human races to Earth and lets magic loose. Throwing giant robots into the mix would be pretty neat, too. We'll see.


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## Von Ether (Apr 10, 2004)

d20 Mechamorphs: The game for overanxious gamer fathers everywhere.

"Because you know that your son's teacher won't mind that your child bragged about being a 25ft tall robot over the weekend. A spell-casting wizard is a whole different matter."


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## thundershot (Apr 10, 2004)

Oh man... Make a mechamorph, and then give him levels of wizard or sorcerer... yessss.... 


Chris


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## Green Knight (Apr 11, 2004)

Forget that! I want to play a mechamorph in D20 Star Wars!  I actually wanted to do that YEARS ago in a WEG Star Wars campaign. I was playing a droid who was both a small droid as well as the brain for the party's ship. I guess another way of looking at it is that I was the ship, and that small droid was the ship's avatar. Anyway, my goal in the campaign was to turn that ship into a transformer, so the party would have a giant transformable robot on its side. Or at the very least, turn the droid avatar into a transformer, maybe being able to turn into a speeder or some such vehicle. 

Think about it. The party, which is composed of 5 PC's including the transforming droid, is advancing into an enemy controlled area and they're spotted by the bad guys, who ASSUME the party only consists of 4 members, and take them by surprise and capture them. They also take the party's equipment for their own use. Unbeknownst to them, one of the speeders they've snatched is a transforming droid. So now your PC has infiltrated the enemy camp and pretty much has free reign, whereas the other PC's are locked up. He can now spy on the enemies, sabotage them, and help the PC's escape. And at the end, when the bad guys confront the now freed PC's, you can let one of the bad guys ride you into battle, and when he's about to attack, THAT'S when you transform and reveal your existence, and trash the rider. 

That's just one idea, anyway. 

So when does this come out, again? Can't wait to get my hands on it. First thing I'm going to do is write up stats for Optimus Prime. Then I'm gonna come here and post his stats in a Poll asking the universal question, namely "If Optimus Prime and Elminster were to fight, who would win?".  Personally my money's on Prime. He's got The Touch, after all.


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 12, 2004)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> So when does this come out, again? Can't wait to get my hands on it.




Mechamorphosis will be out by Origins (early June).


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## Green Knight (Apr 14, 2004)

This just occured to me, so I thought I'd ask. 

Will there be rules for Gestalts/Combiners? Two or more robots which merge together to form a larger robot? 

I've always wondered how workable it'd be to have a PC party consist of a team of Combiners. While it'd be awesome, you'd still have to give each player something to do for that to be fun. 

How about robots with more then one alternate form? Triple-changes, quadruple changers, etc? You turn from a robot to a car, to a jet, to a tank, and so on? Will there be rules for their kind? 

And last but not least, will it be possible to recreate robots similar to Headmasters/Targetmasters? Albeit not like how it was done on American tv. Let me explain. In the Japanese Headmaster series, the heads were robots, NOT fleshies in mechanical suits. Conversely, the bodies were dead things, NOT living robots. So essentially what you had was a human-sized robot who had all the benefits of being human-sized, but when he wanted to, he could merge with his car parked outside and thus become a normal sized robot. Any way to recreate that with the rules in the Mechamorphosis books?


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## Green Knight (Apr 14, 2004)

> Mechamorphosis will be out by Origins (early June).




Excellent! Just in time for my birthday.


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## thundershot (Apr 14, 2004)

Heh... GreenKnight, you and I are in the same boat, man. I love all things Transformers. Masterforce and Victory were EXCELLENT (Headmasters would have been better if I had it subbed... I have them in raw Japanese).

I know d20 Mecha can be used for everything you mentioned, because, well.... I had to make them. Using the combining feature with a giant robot and a power suit for a *master worked well, along with the remote feature. I even made a Pretender. (just make a medium sized weaker extra mode called "Human") I've been toying with the idea of making the Pretender's armor a separate "power suit" with the summonable ability, but I don't know what advantages it would have...

I'm hoping Mechamorphasis will have a way to do all of this as well, in maybe a simpler form.


Chris


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## Green Knight (Apr 14, 2004)

I've never seen the Japanese series', unfortunately, though I've heard plenty about them. 

As for Transformers, it begins and ends for me with G1, Beast Wars, and the comics. I loathed Beast Machines with a passion, was unimpressed with Robots In Disguise, and was once again repulsed when first Armada and now Energon hit the air (It says quite a bit when you find more consistent writing, better storytelling, better dialogue, and a more coherent continuity in G1, which is 20 years old, then in Armada. For cripes sake, at least G1 episodes maintained continuity within themselves. I've seen Armada episodes in which the events later in the episode contradicted what happened only 10 minutes earlier!). I feel like I've been out in the wilderness for the past 5 years, suffering through never-ending crap, waiting forlornly for SOMEBODY to put a good Transformers series on the air.  Fortunately the comics which I've picked up have been really good, but I never have the spare change to go out and buy them, and I'm completely unused to collecting comics after all these years, so I'm always behind. Oh well. Fortunately it appears that they're publishing TPB's, so I'll see about getting those, eventually. Especially The War Within. Can't wait to finish off that series. 

But yeah, I've always figured D20 could cover all those situations, though I never really put any effort into doing any converting, myself. Nice to see someone has had some success. As for Mechamorphosis, while I hope that they'll have something similar to the various Masters, I doubt it. The gestalts, though, are what I'm really hoping for. Especially if there're rules which make forming into a gestalt advantages to a group of PC's, rather then leaving all but one of them out in the cold, having nothing to do while the gestalt battles it out with whomever.


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 14, 2004)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> Will there be rules for Gestalts/Combiners? Two or more robots which merge together to form a larger robot? How about robots with more then one alternate form? Triple-changes, quadruple changers, etc? And last but not least, will it be possible to recreate robots similar to Headmasters/Targetmasters? Albeit not like how it was done on American tv. Let me explain. In the Japanese Headmaster series, the heads were robots, NOT fleshies in mechanical suits. Conversely, the bodies were dead things, NOT living robots. So essentially what you had was a human-sized robot who had all the benefits of being human-sized, but when he wanted to, he could merge with his car parked outside and thus become a normal sized robot. Any way to recreate that with the rules in the Mechamorphosis books?




Gestalts/Voltrons: Yep.
Multiple Alt-forms: Yep.
Robot heads/robot weapons: Yep (no humans turning into heads or guns, though . . . that always gave me the creeps. That'd really hurt, being scrunched up like that!).


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## Green Knight (Apr 14, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> Gestalts/Voltrons: Yep.
> Multiple Alt-forms: Yep.
> Robot heads/robot weapons: Yep (no humans turning into heads or guns, though . . . that always gave me the creeps. That'd really hurt, being scrunched up like that!).




Sweet! Glad to see the rules will cover all those different varieties. 

And yeah, gotta agree with you about the humans in exosuits thing. Apparently the suit expands out into a room, but still. I had a couple of the Headmaster toys when I was little, and considering the way they transformerd, I can't shake the feeling that the pilots (whether Humans or Nebulans) would break every bone in their body whenever they transformed. 

Anyway, about the gestalts, any chance you can give us a hint as to how they'll work in the game? How do you keep things interesting for the entire player group when their five PC's merge into one giant robot? After all, on the face of it, there's not a lot of fun to be had being a leg.


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## Green Knight (Apr 15, 2004)

Bump!


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 15, 2004)

> Anyway, about the gestalts, any chance you can give us a hint as to how they'll work in the game? How do you keep things interesting for the entire player group when their five PC's merge into one giant robot? After all, on the face of it, there's not a lot of fun to be had being a leg.




"And I'll form the head!"

Our initial plan is to use party cooperation, followed soon after by inter-party conflict! . When the players form a gestalt, they have a reasonable amount of time to decide what to do (GM's discretion). When they do take an action, the players rotate rolling the resolution dice . . . I've seen this sort of thing happen in other games, where one player makes a roll for the whole group, and it's usually an edge-of-seat moment. If they haven't decided as a group what to do by that time, they can't take an action. The big multi-bot bots were often easily confused, distractable, and off their rockers, and this reflects that.

On the less friendly side, there's also the "take control" option. Bots that form a gestalt can try to "hijack" control of it from their fellow bots, but in order to do so they need to beat every other bot vying for control as well. Probably going to use opposed Will saves for this mechanic, not absolutely sure yet. If the hijacking bot succeeds, he can control the gestalt for that round; if he fails, the gestalt flails about in a silly fashion. So a canny player can intimidate the others into submission if he suggests that resisting his control would spell doom for all of them . . .


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## slingbld (Apr 15, 2004)

All this talk I just HAD to post a few links 

http://www.transfans.com/

http://www.digiserve.com/eescape/tf/Transformers.shtml

http://tfarchive.com/

3 decent sites. Transfans.com has scanned copies of the american & some UK comics. It's realy cool!!!


Slingbld~


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## Green Knight (Apr 16, 2004)

Bump.


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 16, 2004)

*More mechamorph art*

Here's some more art for you guys. Just for kicks, maybe I'll hold a pseudo-contest to come up with names for the seaplane and the cell phone!


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## Green Knight (Apr 16, 2004)

A cellphone? LOL! How awesome! Talk about stretching the concept of "robot in disguise" to its utmost.  

Which brings me to my next question: Just how big is that guy? Are we talking a 2-3" tall robot, or much like Megatron and Ravage, does this guy shrink beyond his normal size? If that's the case, then how do you handle it when a robot which is normally size Huge transforms into something that's size Small (Robot to boom box), or size Medium to size Tiny (Robot to cassette)? 

But anyway, thanks for the new pics. These guys look REALLY good! I especially like that construction vehicle guy. 



> Just for kicks, maybe I'll hold a pseudo-contest to come up with names for the seaplane and the cell phone!




Damn you. I didn't come into this thread expecting to get put under the gun.  Well, seeing that other thread, guess I'm left with no choice.


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## Wasgo (Apr 18, 2004)

So will we be able to play Animal robots ala Beast Wars too?


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 19, 2004)

Wasgo said:
			
		

> So will we be able to play Animal robots ala Beast Wars too?




Yep. Attached is a rough illo of Jaunt, just such a beasty.


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## Von Ether (Apr 19, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> Here's some more art for you guys. Just for kicks, maybe I'll hold a pseudo-contest to come up with names for the seaplane and the cell phone!



LOL!
Dibs on the cell phone robot ...

Rollover
Roam
Overcharge
Txtr (in a comic book this character would alway have his word ballons sans vowels.)
Mozart
Fiddler (on the roof)
Afternine
Week Ns. O'nly
Chatterbox


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## jaults (Apr 19, 2004)

Holy freakin' crap, these are awesome. As if I didn't already _need_ this book...

 Jason


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## Green Knight (Apr 20, 2004)

Ooh. Beast modes! How about realistic beast modes? That guy's obviously the type that turns into the mechanical kind of animal. How about the ones that turn into animals that look completely real? I.E. If you put them into an enclosure at the zoo with the same beast, you wouldn't be able to tell them apart?


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## Neo (Apr 20, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> Yep. Attached is a rough illo of Jaunt, just such a beasty.




This is my Ravage (Decepticon) fixation resolved


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 23, 2004)

*More Art*

'Cause we love showing you robots


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## rvaughn_ffg (Apr 30, 2004)

*Size chart*

An homage to the size comparison chart in the PHB:


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## Green Knight (Apr 30, 2004)

I like, VERY much! Especially the size chart one, as well as that second one from the previous post.


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## Henry (Apr 30, 2004)

$14.95, you say? I have a friend who would kill off a squad of paladins and their unicorn mounts for a book like this...


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## Knightfall (May 1, 2004)

AWSOME! I'm so getting this book.


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## soundwave810 (May 5, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> An homage to the size comparison chart in the PHB:



Any chance the book will have anything on certain power amplifing mechamorphs similiar to minicon in transformers armada?


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## synecdoche (May 7, 2004)

rvaughn_ffg said:
			
		

> Yep. Attached is a rough illo of Jaunt, just such a beasty.




I have to ask-- does this include rules for the tape transformers?


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## Green Knight (May 7, 2004)

> Any chance the book will have anything on certain power amplifing mechamorphs similiar to minicon in transformers armada?




_La, la, la! I'm not listening to you! That show never aired!_


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## Leopold (May 9, 2004)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> _La, la, la! I'm not listening to you! That show never aired!_





tough, it aired, it had some neat concepts like the headmasters series so why not take advantage of it?

heck! I hope this thing sells well so we can see some addons to this series!


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## soundwave810 (May 9, 2004)

Leopold said:
			
		

> tough, it aired, it had some neat concepts like the headmasters series so why not take advantage of it?
> 
> heck! I hope this thing sells well so we can see some addons to this series!




Thanks Leo I couldn't have said it better myself. Plus a TF fan I prefer to run a mixed game and in could the beast ideas and concept from all series. IMHO there's alot you can do in a game world that combines all the continuities.


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## Arkhandus (May 10, 2004)

This stuff rocks!  I MUST have the book!  *old-skool TF fanboy glee!*

Only thing I'm still wondering is, will there be city-bots or planetoid-bots....?
*cackles evilly*


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## Green Knight (May 10, 2004)

Leopold said:
			
		

> tough, it aired, it had some neat concepts like the headmasters series so why not take advantage of it?
> 
> heck! I hope this thing sells well so we can see some addons to this series!




Nah, I don't much like the look of a Transformer covered in bicycles, skateboards, miniature helicopters, and so on. I much prefer Targetmasters or Powermasters. 



> Thanks Leo I couldn't have said it better myself. Plus a TF fan I prefer to run a mixed game and in could the beast ideas and concept from all series. IMHO there's alot you can do in a game world that combines all the continuities.




Agreed, though Armada, at least for me, provides nothing interesting to the mix. The only part was Smokescreen getting a new body without making a big deal about it, like in Beast Wars. I always thought that would've been a better way of handling Transformers changing bodies, rather then some kind of major event.


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## Krug (May 23, 2004)

Nice cover!


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## Green Knight (May 23, 2004)

And here I thought this was the cover. 






Well, here's hoping it's the one you posted, because that one looks MUCH better!


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## C. Baize (May 23, 2004)

I forgot to ask, and I didn't see it in the thread.. 
Is this D20, or D20 Modern?


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## takyris (May 23, 2004)

Oh, man.  I still haven't even convinced the lads to play M&M with me yet, but I'm definitely getting this.  The concept art sold me.

Random question: Earlier in the thread, you referred to smaller 'bots as being lower level than larger 'bots.  Is that right (I could have misread it)?  Is there a way to make, say, a Bumblebee-like character who is higher level, or a helicopter that's lower level?  I guess I'm imagining a team of a small car, a pickup truck, a tank, and a helicopter that each function as an integral and equally powerful (in their area) member of the team.  The car is a good subtle scout and might have lots of skill ranks, the truck is a utility player with durability and some offensive power, the tank can hit hard where it counts but can't move much, and the helicopter is good offensively and very mobile but can't take a lot of punishment.  Or, to put it another way:

Small Car: Halfling Rogue or Smart/Fast Hero
Truck: Human Ranger or Strong/Dedicated Hero
Tank: Half-Orc Barbarian or Strong/Tough Hero
Helicopter: Elven Wizard or Strong/Fast Hero

Shoot.  We probably need a cleric.  Probably a pickup truck or an ambulance.


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## soundwave810 (Jun 8, 2004)

Just wondering but is there a release date yet?


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## baileyrecords (Jun 10, 2004)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> This might be the first _Horizon_ series product I'll purchase, but I want to know what sort of ruleset you're using? 3e/3.5e or Modern? Is this a standalone OGL product or do I require one of Wizards' core game book?
> 
> Are there any new rules or material you want to advertise now?




Good questions... I'm intrigued by this book as well... and the answers to these questions.

Thanks for the news!

- Stratos


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## baileyrecords (Jun 10, 2004)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> This is DEFINITELY a must-have, for me. It makes my head hurt to think that WoTC could EASILY publish a Transformers RPG, due to the fact that both it and Transformers are owned by Hasbro, yet they don't do it.




Agreed!  Hasbro / WoTC would honestly have a licensed product that could easily blow the doors off of Star Wars - because Hasbro actually owns the license rather than bowing to the master (like they do for Uncle George).

I for one have been a TransFan for as long as I've been buying/collecting toys - just as long as I've been a Star Wars fan.  I'd love to see an officially licensed Transformers RPG to come out... with supplements for every incarnation of the TFs and artwork by the Dreamwave Prod team (but don't forget the cheese from Marvel US and Marvel UK!).

Anyhow... this "rip-off" looks great and will have to suffice for now!

- Stratos


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## Vanuslux (Jun 22, 2004)

*bumped*

...cause it's awesome.  

I want this sooooo bad.


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## soundwave810 (Jun 23, 2004)

HUZZAH!!!

I went to my local gaming store and they said they should have it in by this weekend.

So keep an eye out for it!


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## Green Knight (Jun 23, 2004)

I'm still waiting to get my copy in the mail. ANY day now. 

*crosses fingers*


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## mechassembler (Jun 24, 2004)

*DrivethruRPG??*

wot happen?   

There was a Mechamorphosis entry about 2 days ago and today I wandered on in with credit card in hand and it's gawn!


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## Ronin Mantis (Jun 24, 2004)

I keep checking the Fantasy Flight Games homepage and they still don't list any sort of release date....  I don't have a reliable gaming store near me so I want to order it online....


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## mechassembler (Jun 25, 2004)

*PDF Issues*

The only reason I found out about Mechamorphosis at all was after surfing around the Drivethrurpg web site. 

Maybe they found some formatting errors and took it off for fixing?

Let's hope that's all it is.


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## Ronin Mantis (Jun 25, 2004)

In an email dated 24-JUN-04, Rob Vaughn answered several questions that I posed to him.  One of these being the release date.  His response was ..."Shipping to stores this week".  

I also asked if the game would be 3.5 compatible...  the answer was...
"Compatible with 3.5 (including d20 Modern)"


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## soundwave810 (Jun 25, 2004)

mechassembler said:
			
		

> The only reason I found out about Mechamorphosis at all was after surfing around the Drivethrurpg web site.
> 
> Maybe they found some formatting errors and took it off for fixing?
> 
> Let's hope that's all it is.




Could be, though unlikely IMO because and I quote from www.Drivethrurpg.com

"Original electronic format 
These ebooks were created from the original electronic versions, and therefore are fully text searchable. Also, their file size tends to be smaller than scanned image books. Most newer books are in the original electronic format."

Mechamorphosis is downloadable from this type of format @ Drivethrurpg.
Therefore if there was a problem in the formatting it would be in the books too, would it not?

My guess is that Fantasy Flight wanted it to be released at or around when the actually books will be available on the shelves.

Either way Drivethrurpg has it listed to be released on the 28th.


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## soundwave810 (Jun 27, 2004)

I've got it! It's out!
Off I go to do TF conversions!


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## Ronin Mantis (Jun 28, 2004)

Fantasy Flight Games has it listed on their website for sale as of 28-JUN-04.  I just ordered a copy.

  On a related note....  A good artist friend of mine once did a drawing of two (2) Transformers as they would look if they arrived on Earth during WWII.  Pretty neat stuff...  

  One is Starscream as a German Messerschmitt and I think it is Iron Hide as a WWII American half-track...  When transformed, his quad-50's are mounted on his shoulders.  They look awesome.

  The reason I mention this is because it sparked my imagination.  Imagine if you will that the 'robots' arrive on Earth during WWII and side with the major factions... Axis and Allies...  it would make for some interesting units....


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## Dr. Talos (Jun 29, 2004)

Ronin Mantis said:
			
		

> ...
> 
> On a related note....  A good artist friend of mine once did a drawing of two (2) Transformers as they would look if they arrived on Earth during WWII.  Pretty neat stuff...
> 
> ...




Then you would love the GIJoe/Transformers comic that was put out earlier this year that was set during WWII.  It was a 6 run series.  Check Dreamwave Productions website.


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## RodneyThompson (Jun 29, 2004)

I picked this one up at Origins, and all I have to say about it is that it is super sweet. I like it!


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## taleofthetwinsuns (Jun 29, 2004)

I will definetly have to get my hands on this one!


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## Nuclear Platypus (Jun 30, 2004)

slingbld said:
			
		

> Heck, *BUMBLEBEE* the smallest of all the Autobots stood about 8-9' tall in 'bot form!




I think the tapes were even smaller, about the size of a human or an equivalent creature (usually since Ratbat was a rather large flying mouse) and Wheelie looked about the same size as Daniel (Spike's son). In the original series, after dealing with Hound in the riverbed, Rumble just shoves Spike out of the way but looks about the same size too. Rattrap (Beast Wars / Beast Machines (bleh)) was also a runt, about the size of a proto human but all the BW / BM bots were smaller than their ancestors.

Still tho, I think I'm gonna have to at least give this a closer look and maybe even pick it up.


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## mistergone (Jun 30, 2004)

Aw man! I won a copy in the contest on here but have never received it. Now it's in stores? So much for being special. Heh.


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## Shawn Carman (Jul 1, 2004)

I picked this one up at Origins and it is absolutely fantastic.  Easily the best book I picked up at the 'Con, rivaled perhaps only by Blackwyrm Games' The Algernon Files (also excellent).

I understand space is at a premium in these Horizon books, but I hope that we can see a web enhancement with some sample mechamorphs (preferably the many named bots throughout the book) and perhaps a character sheet.


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## the_dunner (Jul 1, 2004)

Shawn Carman said:
			
		

> I understand space is at a premium in these Horizon books, but I hope that we can see a web enhancement with some sample mechamorphs (preferably the many named bots throughout the book) and perhaps a character sheet.




I'd second that request.  Great book, but the lack of any NPCs is ... a bit challenging.


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## Ronin Mantis (Jul 2, 2004)

the_dunner said:
			
		

> I'd second that request.  Great book, but the lack of any NPCs is ... a bit challenging.




  I third that request....  There is nothign like havig some ready-to-use characters at your disposal.  A web-enhancement would be good idea.  I know that Horizon games are supposed to be one-book games and that is what is so appealing about them, but a web enhancement could add a lot to the initial book.  

  On the other side of the coin.... By not giving you pre-generated characters, the game is put squarely in the lap of the GM, to craft the world as he/she see's fit.

  Having said that... My vote is for a web-enhancement.


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## Aaron2 (Jul 2, 2004)

Dr. Talos said:
			
		

> Then you would love the GIJoe/Transformers comic that was put out earlier this year that was set during WWII.  It was a 6 run series.  Check Dreamwave Productions website.




I looked on their web page but can't find it. What was it called?


Aaron


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## Hand of Vecna (Jul 2, 2004)

It wouldn't be on the site since the mini-series has already run it's course.  I think it was simply called _Transformers/G.I. Joe_, though.  It should be available in TPB form soon.


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## Shawn Carman (Jul 2, 2004)

Ronin Mantis said:
			
		

> On the other side of the coin.... By not giving you pre-generated characters, the game is put squarely in the lap of the GM, to craft the world as he/she see's fit.
> 
> Having said that... My vote is for a web-enhancement.




My obssessive need for detail will surely one day lead to madness.  Until then, I've compiled a short list of what we know about the mechamorphs listed in the book. This is all wildly subjective, but maybe it will help some fledgling GM out there. This is all taken from the various bits of flavor text and illustrations scattered throughout the book.

ANIMECHS
  Battlehorn [Alt form: Triceratops, Priority 3]
  Iron Fang
  Jaunt [Alt form: Wolf, Priority 3]

EXILES
  Aegis
  Backtrack [Alt form: 4-wheeler, Priority 1]
  Barrage [Alt form: 4-door, Priority 1]
  Class [Alt form: Sports car, Priority 1]
  Rally
  Sky-Eye
  Skyjammer
  Wheelwell

TYRANTS
  Deadringer [Alt form: Cellphone, Priority 4]
  Dervish [Alt form: Single-prop, Priority 2]
  Impact [Alt form: Construction vehicle, Priority 2]
  Vorpal [Alt form: Weapon (sword), Priority 3]

UNKNOWN
  Overlook
  Scattershot [Alt form: Tank, Priority 2]

If anyone else has sussed things out based on the text, I'd love to see your data.


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## Cyberhawk (Jul 3, 2004)

*Classes*

I picked up Mechamorphosis yesterday at the store, and I'm pretty happy with it.   It's full of old-school and current stuff.

The only problem is that I like a lot of classes, and MM uses three very generic classes (Soldier, Scientist, Scout) and one exotic class (controller).  I realize space was very limited, but a few more classes would have been nice.  Especially a Communicater class to represent Soundwave or Blaster.

Admittedly you can do a Controller with some sort of long-distance communication Ability (whispering wind or telepathy or something) but it's just not the same.

Still, that's just a very minor gripe.  Fantasy Flight did a great job on this.


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## Ronin Mantis (Jul 3, 2004)

From what I can see.... Soundwave and Blaster ARE Controllers.  The basis of a COntroller is that they have other "lesser" 'morphs that they control.... I think that the cassettes are a clear example of this.

  I was thinking of working in some classes from a Polyhedron article.... There was an article that gave the rules for playing a "Terrorist Group" <Read as....COBRA!!> and they had a "Leader" class (I think it was called something else)  This would be good to represent Megatr...err.... I mean... the Evil Leader..
 

  My ONLY gripe is that they did not provide a character sheet for the characters.  I would have liked to see a character sheet included in the book.  Although, FFG has put up web enhancements for several of the other games for character sheets.  I'll keep my fingers crossed.


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## Ronin Mantis (Jul 3, 2004)

OK.... I looked up the Polyhedron Article and I stand corrected...  The article did not give new classes but instead showed a possible character design using the standard rules....


  Oh well.....


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## Storyteller01 (Jul 15, 2004)

To the person who was doing comparisons (Mechamorph to transformers, Slingers to Bravestar, Virtual to reboot), there is a comparison to Grimm: all thefairy tales written by the brothers Grimm.


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## Storyteller01 (Jul 15, 2004)

Can anyone explain why the soldier's BAB only progress\es at the 'average' rate, and not the standard fighter  rate?


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