# The Tome of Horrors is the Tome of Happiness!



## Isida Kep'Tukari (Nov 14, 2002)

I just picked up the Tome of Horrors.  I spent 15 mintues looking in it.  During that entire time I alternated between giggling and cackling with glee.

My thoughts?

"This place has _everything!_"

Oh yes, it does.  The blood hawk, the clubnek, the crypt thing, the coffer corpse, the crabmen, lava children, *the flumph*, the al-mi'raj, the grippli, the yellow musk vine and zombie, more slimes, oozes, and puddings than you can shake a stick at, demons and devil lords up the wazoo, celestials, fey, animals, evil plants, not so evil plants, every single freaking thing ever!

And if that's not enough, templates!  They have templates that let you stick two animals together, the animal lord, a *dire template*, the foo creature, everything!  They included the stats for a dire sloth!  How cool is that?

And another thing, for several monsters they included the stat adjustments and ECL for people who want to use them as PCs!

ARGH!!!  This book is so cool!!!

(Ok, over-enthusiastic fanboy rant done)


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## Nightfall (Nov 14, 2002)

But it's such a nice rant...  In any case I'm glad that you're finding a lot of use for this book. I know I will too soon.


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## Henry (Nov 14, 2002)

Daaaaaaaarnnn IT! 

NOW I have another book to go buy. I thought I could pass this one by - but...

_*Henry starts frantically scribbling on his Christmas list*_


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## MeepoTheMighty (Nov 14, 2002)

Henry said:
			
		

> *Daaaaaaaarnnn IT!
> 
> NOW I have another book to go buy. I thought I could pass this one by - but...
> 
> *Henry starts frantically scribbling on his Christmas list* *





I know the feeling.  All them damn d20 companies are making me go broke.

*ATTENTION D20 COMPANIES:*

Tone down the quality, please.  My wallet can't take any more abuse.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Nov 14, 2002)

I'm taking mine back for an exchange.  The binding is already coming apart.  The pages are coming off the part that holds them together.   I bought it about 18 hours ago.


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## BOZ (Nov 14, 2002)

hahahahaha, you will enjoy it whether you like it or not!  yes, you want it!  hahahahahaha....


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## BOZ (Nov 14, 2002)

but yes, i digress.  the binding is a problem, i can see that.  it's my only real complaint.  but hey, if all the pages fall out you can just three-hole punch them and stick em in a binder.  

seriously... i think they did it on purpose so that demand will force a second printing in a hurry, and then people will buy a second book.    haha, just kidding... i don't think anyone at the game company knew that would happen.


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## Knight Otu (Nov 14, 2002)

It's a great book. 

One thing I dislike is the low number of non-unique devils. Demons and daemons have unique rulers, too, but not in the same extreme proportion. 3 out of 10 devils not unique seems a bit too much.

But maybe that's just me.


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## Nightfall (Nov 14, 2002)

Flexor the Mighty! said:
			
		

> *I'm taking mine back for an exchange.  The binding is already coming apart.  The pages are coming off the part that holds them together.   I bought it about 18 hours ago. *




Funny, I've had mine for 24 hours. The binding on it is fine. You must have gotten a defective copy.


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## Crothian (Nov 14, 2002)

So, it's a good book?


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## Nightfall (Nov 14, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *So, it's a good book? *




I think so. Certainly I plan on using a goodly number of creatures out of this book.


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## Crothian (Nov 14, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *I think so. Certainly I plan on using a goodly number of creatures out of this book. *




That's cool.  So, any thoughts on how it would fit into a non fantasy genre game?


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## Teneb (Nov 14, 2002)

The part that I think is really awesome is that its *all* OGC.


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## Crothian (Nov 14, 2002)

Teneb said:
			
		

> *The part that I think is really awesome is that its all OGC. *




While that's good for other compaines being able to use this, it really won't have any effect around the gaming table.


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## Teneb (Nov 14, 2002)

> While that's good for other compaines being able to use this, it really won't have any effect around the gaming table.



No, but it would be good for, oh, say....posting one's modules/adventures online for others to enjoy.  Not for everyone, but it admitedly makes *me* quite happy.


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## Nightfall (Nov 14, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That's cool.  So, any thoughts on how it would fit into a non fantasy genre game? *




Uhm not sure but perhaps the copper skeletons might work out (they are constructs after all) No idea about any others off hand. (Though if you do allow shapechangers, the good old wolfweres and owlweres are there)


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## Jasperak (Nov 14, 2002)

Huecuva, must have Huecuva


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## Nightfall (Nov 14, 2002)

Jasperak said:
			
		

> *Huecuva, must have Huecuva *




Like the commerical for Prego used to say "It's in there."


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## Sanackranib (Nov 14, 2002)

*tome . . .*



			
				Jasperak said:
			
		

> *Huecuva, must have Huecuva *




I've been waiting to see these guys in 3e since it first came out.
one can NEVER have too many undead at his disposal.
too bad I already waisted att that toner printing a lot of this stuff off the creature catalog! DOH!


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## Ulrick (Nov 15, 2002)

I just bought it a couple days ago.

I think this is the BEST monster compendium out there...surpassing even the Monster Manual.

Excellent Job, Necromancer Games!!!

Ulrick


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2002)

What's the level of deatil they give each creature?  Is it short blurbs like the MM?  One page each like Creature Collection?  Or multiple pages like the Monsternomicon?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Nov 15, 2002)

Short blurbs like the MM.  Some are on one page, some are broken up.  It's mostly set up like the MM.  It has an insane monster per dollar ratio.  400+ for $30!


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## roytheodd (Nov 15, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *So, it's a good book? *




This is the book the Monster Manual II should have been. If it had just a few stock humanoids (eg Orcs & Goblins) it would replace the 3rd Monster Manual on my shelf.


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## Crothian (Nov 15, 2002)

roytheodd said:
			
		

> *
> 
> This is the book the Monster Manual II should have been. If it had just a few stock humanoids (eg Orcs & Goblins) it would replace the 3rd Monster Manual on my shelf. *




That's pretty darn good praise.


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## Vanye (Nov 15, 2002)

*Who's carrying it online?*

I'm not finding it listed at Amazon or Barnes and Nobles.  Borders is useless since it's the same as Amazon.  So, who's got it available online?


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## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Nov 16, 2002)

1) Just hit that little purple button at the top right hand side of your screen that says "shop". 

2) Scroll halfway down

3) Click on ToH

4) Buy at a discount!


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## Griswold (Nov 16, 2002)

So I walked into my LGS today to purchase the SLG Termana, and walked out with the gazetteer and Tome of Horrors. I have to say, out of all the monster books out there, I think this is the best,  this is good stuff! So many creatures, so few PCs....

The Termana gazetteer is good too, though I've only glanced at it 


-G.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Nov 16, 2002)

I found yet another monster in there today that made me cackle with glee.  I think I frightened the Dairy Queen staff...

Anyway...  they have the Giant Hamster!!!!  And it has the special ability "Cheek Pouch"!!!

Eeeheeheeheeheeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!!


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## rounser (Nov 16, 2002)

> surpassing even the Monster Manual.



I found too many of the MM's selections aesthetically lousy, and the biggest letdown of 3E.  It's good to see that MM2 and ToH rectify this and restore an AD&D feel to the monster palette.


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## Zappo (Nov 16, 2002)

rounser said:
			
		

> *
> I found too many of the MM's selections aesthetically lousy, and the biggest letdown of 3E.  It's good to see that MM2 and ToH rectify this and restore an AD&D feel to the monster palette. *



Any way to see a couple of these pictures online?


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## Melan (Nov 16, 2002)

Zappo: go to the  Necromancer Games Site and download the teaser. It has pictures for some creatures, including Lucifer, Giant Frogs, Forlarren, Flind and even the Flumph.


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## jgbrowning (Nov 16, 2002)

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by roytheodd 


This is the book the Monster Manual II should have been. If it had just a few stock humanoids (eg Orcs & Goblins) it would replace the 3rd Monster Manual on my shelf. 
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
And then Crothian said....

"That's pretty darn good praise."

Hell yah brother!  This is the shiznit of monster books, IMHO.  I haven't gone into my FLGS looked at something for less than 20 seconds and walked right out with it since I was 13.

This book is definitly what the MMII _should_ have been. 

joe b.


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## JoeGKushner (Nov 18, 2002)

I'm going to sound like the odd duck out here but...

Let me start by saying that the book is indeed great, 5 star worthy but just barely 5 star.

Lot of the art is sub, especially in comparission to MMII.

Lot of the layout is sub.  Whole page for Eye of the Deep with all that white space?

Lots of favorites from 1st ed still not updated.  Mainly looks like it hit the MMII and FF.

And I know I've seen Cerebrus statted out in 1st ed but (and maybe I missed it) didn't see the original credit.  Same thing with Lucifer who I know got statted out in Politics of Hell.

Great book but there were some touches that would've made it a solid five.


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## Dr_Rictus (Nov 18, 2002)

Jasperak said:
			
		

> *Huecuva, must have Huecuva *




Waitaminute.  The Huecuva has _already_ been done, _twice_ in DUNGEON magazine...


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## coyote6 (Nov 18, 2002)

Dr_Rictus said:
			
		

> *Waitaminute.  The Huecuva has already been done, twice in DUNGEON magazine... *




At least once, as a template. The ToH huecuva is a regular monster.

So use both!


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## qstor (Nov 21, 2002)

>That's cool. So, any thoughts on how it would fit into a non >fantasy genre game?

There was a thread on D&D monsters in a space/Dragonstar setting on the d20 system games area.
I think a lot  of them could fit in a d20 Modern or Dragonstar game or even a Victorian "magical" setting ala Castle Faklenstein.

I highly recommend it as well as the reviwer mentioned on rpgshop.com if you buy one monster book at all apart from the MM buy this one!

Mike


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## Quickbeam (Nov 21, 2002)

Ulrick said:
			
		

> *I just bought it a couple days ago.
> 
> I think this is the BEST monster compendium out there...surpassing even the Monster Manual.
> 
> ...




Now that's a ringing endorsement.
Somewhere, one of my gaming buddies is smiling.  You see he buys damn near _everything_ released for D&D, much of it junk we never use and he doesn't end up liking anyhow.  But _this_ will be a book he is proud to own evidently.  Good for him...and for me when I cave in and buy it too .


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## Dr_Rictus (Nov 21, 2002)

coyote6 said:
			
		

> *At least once, as a template. The ToH huecuva is a regular monster.
> 
> So use both!  *




Sure; I'm just puzzled about this in light of their assertion that they were using monsters that they had established WotC was _not_ planning on converting.


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## Olive (Nov 22, 2002)

not to mention orcus (which we knew about and is fair enough) the shadow demon, the chasme, Jubilex... its agreat book, but these ones are kinda a bummer...


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## green slime (Nov 22, 2002)

Well, well, well.

FINALLY, the BoVD finally reaches these dark and distant shores. Along with Tome of Horrors and D20 Modern... and no Dragon or Dungeon magazines, and still no MMII!

Of course I had to purchase all three books, having been deprived of my consumer rights for so long.

After glancing through the Tome of Horrors, which took much longer than I expected due to its humungous size, I turned to BoVD...which somehow, just paled in comparision... I don't know how, but it was just too much ho-hum. Especially as I was eager for more ToH.

I did find some minor errors in the ToH in the little while I was perusing my copy: Prices for constructing at least one construct was missing. And some monsters I found to be... well different to how I would have them. And the art was very much hit and miss. Some of it was glorious (I really like the Banshee picture), while some others were hideous. 

But on the whole, an excellent book, and one that shall definitely see use at my gaming table. Even more so than any other monster book except MM.


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## Wolf72 (Nov 22, 2002)

WEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!\

got my ToH today  ...


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## bwgwl (Nov 22, 2002)

i'm pleased and darn impressed with it overall, but i have noticed a few things that i'll have to tweak.

there's a couple of critters i think should be classified as a different type (can't think of any off the top of my head; most were beasts that i'd make humanoids or monstrous humanoids, or something like that).

also, there's quite a few beasts in the book with an Int score above 2. (the MM errata states beasts can only have a 1 or 2 Int, like animals.) so these i'd either drop to 2 Int or change their type (to either magical beast, monstrous humanoid, or possibly aberration, whichever is most appropriate).


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Nov 22, 2002)

green slime said:
			
		

> *
> I did find some minor errors in the ToH in the little while I was perusing my copy: Prices for constructing at least one construct was missing.. *




Do you mean the Blood Golem?  Look again, despite the name (and they mention this in the flavor text) it's actually an aberration.


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## LGodamus (Nov 22, 2002)

wish mine would friggin get here already, sheesh.....I feel so left out......phooey


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## Kwalish Kid (Nov 22, 2002)

The only problem I've come accross is some beasts that should be animals and the fire nymph, which should probably be a fey and not an outsider (though I'm not sure about that, yet).


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## Voadam (Nov 22, 2002)

Crothian said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That's cool.  So, any thoughts on how it would fit into a non fantasy genre game? *




I don't have it but doesn't it have a large section on real world poisonous snakes, or are they just fantasy poisonous snakes.

By non fantasy do you mean no magic or non D&D standard (shadowforce archer, fading suns, Cthulhu, WoT, dragonstar, sovereign stone, supers, darwin world, etc.)?


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## ColonelHardisson (Nov 22, 2002)

The snakes are real-world snakes.


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## Desdichado (Nov 22, 2002)

Crothian:  It is a _monster_ book after all.  Any game that uses it, by default, is a fantasy.  

I like the book, but it's not the be-all end-all of monster books (for that, I'd probably nominate Monsternomicon.)  Some of the art is hit or miss and a lot of the creatures could have sunk into obscurity without me missing the fact that they were converted.  I guess unlike rounser, I actually don't like that D&D is such a genre unto itself, seperate and unique from other fantasy stories, which don't play out well in D&D.  Some of the creatures that just cry "D&D" I could do without.  I never really wanted to use them anyway.


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## Kamard (Nov 22, 2002)

I got this today, just finished thumbing through it, and I wanted to say I am extremely pleased with the entire book.  Just reading it gave me ideas and made me think of places to put the various creatures.  Not to mention a lot of the critters I liked from "back in the day" are back for my 3e game without me having to convert them myself.

My only real problem was a lot of clearly humanoid creatures were made beasts or other types.  I realize this is probably to better fit feats and skills, but they're still humanoid in shape... *shrugs*


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