# Campaign Cartogrpaher 3



## glass (May 10, 2006)

Just before The Crash, I was sent an email telling me there was a new post in the old CC3 thread (to which I had subscribed). Unfortunately, when I clicked on the link I learned of the site's difficulties. So that new post (along with the rest of the thread) has gone the way of the do-do.

So, what's the latest?


glass.


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## Agamon (May 11, 2006)

I believe the last post said there was nothing new to report. 

And I can confirm that from the CC2 mailing list.


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## TheAuldGrump (May 12, 2006)

Yep, I posted a question to the list along the lines of 'When is it due out?' and recieved a reply of 'When it's out.' 

Gods I want that program.

The Auld Grump


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 11, 2006)

And I might as well post it again...

Any word yet?

The Auld Grump


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## Glyfair (Jun 11, 2006)

They said something like "We'll have an announcement in 48 hours."


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## Agamon (Jun 11, 2006)

Actually, it's within the next week, as of last Friday, so sometime this coming week there should be a general release.


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## jaerdaph (Jun 12, 2006)

If anyone is expecting a voucher from Profantasy, this was posted to the CC2 List today:



> Vouchers and your email address
> 
> 
> If you have an earthlink or aol.com account, or similar spam-blocking
> ...




To find out if you are entitled to a voucher, see the bottom of this page:

http://www.profantasy.com/cc3/upgrade.html

I don't know when the vouchers will be going out though.


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 13, 2006)

*Yeah!*

Err, I mean 'oh good, it's coming out soon.'



(This program was half the reason I bought both Page Plus 10 and a new printer...  )

The Auld Grump


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## D'karr (Jun 13, 2006)

Profantasy has been swamped with demand.  Here is a message from Simon about the vouchers.



> From: "Simon Rogers"
> Date: Tue, 13 Jun 2006 12:15:23 +0100
> Subject: [cc2-l] Vouchers update
> 
> ...




So it is good news all around.  Profantasy is getting lots of business (YAY!!!) and the customers will be getting their vouchers soon (Double Yay!!!).

Believe me Profantasy is the only company I would endorse solely on their customer support.  They are AWESOME!!!!

It's a good thing I also love their products.


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## jaerdaph (Jun 13, 2006)

This was posted today (Tuesday 6/13) regarding vouchers:



> Please read this entire email if you have a voucher query.
> 
> We have sent out all the vouchers now. If you have not received a voucher
> email it is because your ISP has blocked us, your email address is no longer
> ...


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## jaerdaph (Jun 13, 2006)

Everyone who purchases CC3 should be advised of the following: The computer you install CC3 on must now have an internet connection for serial number validation. This includes the CC3 CD-ROM version (not just download versions which obviously you would have to have an internet connection to get the files).


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## jaerdaph (Jun 13, 2006)

One more note when considering your purchasing options - the download version is about 300 MB in size, so dial up users will probably have to wait until they get their CD-ROM. 

I believe ordering the CD-ROM is optional, but if you order it you will still have access to downloading it immediately. In a couple of days profantasy will let you know all your options exactly.


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## Agamon (Jun 14, 2006)

Okay, D'karr slapped my hand when I did this last week, but the EA edition is open to everyone now.  Go here: http://profantasy.com/cc3/upgradeextra.html


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## D'karr (Jun 14, 2006)

Agamon said:
			
		

> Okay, D'karr slapped my hand when I did this last week, but the EA edition is open to everyone now.  Go here: http://profantasy.com/cc3/upgradeextra.html




Hey, you were gracious enough to change that post and I'm sure Profantasy appreciated it.  So, thanks.

But like you said the EA is out.  Have at it.

BTW, this program is awesome.


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Jun 14, 2006)

They're also offering a cheaper upgrade price for Dundjinni users, and the artwork is compatible with both programs.


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## Agamon (Jun 14, 2006)

D'karr said:
			
		

> Hey, you were gracious enough to change that post and I'm sure Profantasy appreciated it.  So, thanks.
> 
> But like you said the EA is out.  Have at it.
> 
> BTW, this program is awesome.




It is.  And I appreciate you pointing it out to me in timely fashion.  Not sure everyone else would agree.


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 14, 2006)

Rodrigo Istalindir said:
			
		

> They're also offering a cheaper upgrade price for Dundjinni users, and the artwork is compatible with both programs.




And, more personally important, to Fractal Mapper users as well.  (Mind you, I have every intention of getting the new Fractal Mapper when it comes out as well, but then I am addicted to mapping programs.)

The Auld Grump


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## jaerdaph (Jun 14, 2006)

D'karr said:
			
		

> BTW, this program is awesome.




I've had it almost a week now and I have to say it really love all the improvements and new features.


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## D'karr (Jun 14, 2006)

jaerdaph said:
			
		

> I've had it almost a week now and I have to say it really love all the improvements and new features.




Same here.

Yep, PNG symbols, transparency, layer/sheet visual effects...  And the same awesome customer support as always.  I have to say I'm very impressed.

You know what I really like about Profantasy is that they really put their development foot forward with this one.  They've been listening to what most customers wanted and really delivered a product that accomplishes a lot of those things.  Not everything is perfect, granted I'll never be Picasso as a map maker.  But CC3 sure does make even some of my very crappy maps looks presentable.


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## Mercule (Jun 14, 2006)

So, we can talk about it, now?

I'm really liking the new toy.  It has some really sweet features that help your maps look even better.  I've only had a chance to do (most of) one map, so far, but it's nice.  I'm looking forward to playing some more.


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## D'karr (Jun 14, 2006)

Mercule said:
			
		

> So, we can talk about it, now?
> 
> I'm really liking the new toy.  It has some really sweet features that help your maps look even better.  I've only had a chance to do (most of) one map, so far, but it's nice.  I'm looking forward to playing some more.




Yes, we can talk about it.  The Early Adopter Program message has been sent out to the registered users of CC2/CC2Pro, including vouchers for those that had purchased within a specific timeframe.  I guess that in about a month Profantasy will release the retail version.

I've been playing around with some old maps.  I've found the "new" tools rather interesting and slightly more intuitive.  I've created tools for making preset ocean fractals, each with different "depth" bitmap fills.  I'm doing the same for the landscape tools.

I love the look of the new symbols.  You can tell that some real artistry and work went into those.  I've imported several PNG's for use as symbols.  I'm trying to understand the instructions for varicolor PNGs, so I can create my own.  I really love the capability for transparency.

The ability to switch visual effects on and off is fantastic.  I can work on a map until I like the look and then turn on the effects that make it really shine.  It also helps as the effects may slow down redraw performance on my older machine. 

Overall my early impression rating is a solid 4.5 out of 5 stars.


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## shaylon (Jun 14, 2006)

So do Dundjinni owners need to wait for a few more days still to get the upgrade?

-Shay


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## Rodrigo Istalindir (Jun 14, 2006)

shaylon said:
			
		

> So do Dundjinni owners need to wait for a few more days still to get the upgrade?
> 
> -Shay




I think it said there would be a two-week window starting the 15th.


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## Legend (Jun 14, 2006)

*Something I put together in a few hours*

Here's an example of what CC3 is capable of in the hands of an intermediate user:

http://www.otakalypse.com/exiawiki/index.php/Image:Exia_Beings_Map_WIP.PNG 

And the world map:
http://www.otakalypse.com/exiawiki/index.php/Image:Keth_WIP.jpg

I wouldn't consider either one finished (especially the world map) but they're both pretty nice so far.

Note:  You may get a 403 Forbidden error when you load the pages.  Just click the refresh button and it should work.


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 15, 2006)

Nope, it stays forbidden.

The Auld Grump


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## Zulithe (Jun 15, 2006)

To view the image in Firefox, you can try copying the URL, opening a new tab, pasting the url and pressing enter. that works for me


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 16, 2006)

Zulithe said:
			
		

> To view the image in Firefox, you can try copying the URL, opening a new tab, pasting the url and pressing enter. that works for me




Okay, that did it! 

The Auld Grump


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 16, 2006)

Have it, playing with it, as with all version from Profantasy, this is good.


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## D'karr (Jun 16, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Have it, playing with it, as with all version from Profantasy, this is good.




Yes, yes it is...


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 16, 2006)

Hmmm, it has not shown up for sale yet on the PF website... ah well, back to waiting...

The Auld Grump


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## Steel_Wind (Jun 16, 2006)

A serious question for a moment:

What is it that you guys like about CC2 and hope to enjoy even more in CC3? I confess, I do not see the attraction in these programs in terms of their output but...I reserve the right to be skooled.

Skool me, please.


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 16, 2006)

TheAuldGrump said:
			
		

> Hmmm, it has not shown up for sale yet on the PF website... ah well, back to waiting...
> 
> The Auld Grump



If you are a regestered user you can log in to the PF site and there is link for purchase of download version.


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 16, 2006)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> A serious question for a moment:
> 
> What is it that you guys like about CC2 and hope to enjoy even more in CC3? I confess, I do not see the attraction in these programs in terms of their output but...I reserve the right to be skooled.
> 
> Skool me, please.



General mapping making, zooming and linking of maps, I can build a very detaited map, which becomes more of an atlas to visualize my world and setting.


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 16, 2006)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> A serious question for a moment:
> 
> What is it that you guys like about CC2 and hope to enjoy even more in CC3? I confess, I do not see the attraction in these programs in terms of their output but...I reserve the right to be skooled.
> 
> Skool me, please.



Hmmm, speaking only for myself, I liked the number of tools available to create maps in CC2, but hated the learning cliff. That said, I was able to produce good maps when I borrowed a friend's copy (he was giving up on it) when he saw what could be done he took it back. In this case it has more to do with my friend being lazy than the difficulties of the program, his hand drawn maps were nothing to write home about either...

As for mapping programs in general, they make my life easier. I can create a good looking map (at least as good as I can draw by hand) in a good deal less time. I can save it as a graphics file and call it up in Word Perfect or (increasingly) Page Plus to use in whatever I am working on at hand. 

But most importantly, and possibly the least universal reason, I just like mapping.  I create maps that I have no need for, and can pull them out when a need does arise. (An older, free, mapping program called Dungeon Crafter is my preferred tool for, ummm, dungeon doodling. ) CC2 was a bit too complex for this, if I was mapping I was putting too much thought into using the software rather than into creating the map. With Fractal Mapper (and the Fool's added tools for making towns) I can doodle a town or three in an evening, so this is my other big doodling program. 

The Auld Grump


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## shaylon (Jun 16, 2006)

OK.  I am a Dundjinni user.  The website says that I will be able to buy it at an early adopter price after 6/15/06.  How do I do this?  Nowhere that I can see is it available for sale.  I read the CC2 upgrader's instructions but I do not qualify for that. 

Anyone have any idea how I can buy this thing?

-Shay


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## Mercule (Jun 16, 2006)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> A serious question for a moment:
> 
> What is it that you guys like about CC2 and hope to enjoy even more in CC3? I confess, I do not see the attraction in these programs in terms of their output but...I reserve the right to be skooled.




I like using printer ink instead of skads of colored pencils.  No, really.  I'm plenty competant with hand-drawn maps -- probably at the lower end of being able to do it for pay.  But, I get tired of the hand cramps.  And heaven help you if you make a mistake (aargh!).

Also, there's time.  CC2/3 isn't exactly insta-map territory, and it can be hard to learn (heck, I had it for a year before I finally decided, a couple months ago, that I was gonna learn it for real).  But, it can speed up the process.  CC3 looks to be even better at this with some of the new tools (wallpapered forests).

Scalability is an issue, too.  If I draw a map on typing paper (pretty common) and later decide I want to posterize it (not uncommon), I've got my choice of taping a bunch of sheets together, tracing (and recoloring) it onto a larger sheet, or taking it to Kinko's and paying $20 for them to copy it (while hoping they get it in the right place).  For any of those choices, there's a headache factor and the likelyhood that it's not going to look quite like I want it to.

There are similar scaling issues for extending the map off the page, zooming in, or zooming out.  Using a vector/CAD tool makes all of those pretty moot.

Finally, it's easy to save it on the computer, with all my other notes.  I can also export to various file formats to embed in Word, web, or email.


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## D'karr (Jun 16, 2006)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> A serious question for a moment:
> 
> What is it that you guys like about CC2 and hope to enjoy even more in CC3? I confess, I do not see the attraction in these programs in terms of their output but...I reserve the right to be skooled.
> 
> Skool me, please.




For me it's simple, I love to create maps.  It fascinates me.  I've had that love of maps since grade school when some of my school projects had me tracing maps from the encyclopedia using wax paper, as an overlay, and coloring pencils.

CC2 allows me some of the same creative freedom.

CC2 allowed me to start with a global map, go to a regional map, then to a local map and drill down to a site-specific map.  It kept the detail from map to map, which saved me time.  I could even do that in reverse.  Without any loss of detail.  It also allowed me to quickly use its tools to create cities, divide them by political/power areas, create sewers underneath my city that easily conformed to the size of my city, etc.

All of those things I could have done with pencil/pen and paper.  The only problem was upgradability.  If I wanted to go from my local map to a regional map I had to recreate the coast and scale it, from scratch, a considerable hassle.  With CC2 it is a matter of 3 clicks/commands and I'm all scaled up or down.

One thing that CC2 couldn't do was handle transparency, that was a major pain in the tookus, specially for site maps, because if you needed it you had to "fake it".  Ever try to show a shallow pond with a chest at the bottom?  Then you know what I mean.

Some people like "paint" programs to do their mapping.  I've seem some fantastic drawings made with those.  The part that was missing was the upgradability factor.  Paint programs lose detail (pixelate) as you get closer to the objects.  That was always a problem for me.  So for some time I was using CC2 for the map and a paint program for the "post-production" work.

Now, CC3 combines the best parts of CC2 and a paint program.  I can use symbols based on bitmaps that have transparency, or change color based on the currently selected color.  I can import bitmaps directly and use them as symbols, etc.  And I can still use the vector functions of CC3 to handle scalability, etc.  In addition, it has some wonderful functions that allow it to create visual effects based on the sheet an object is placed on, similar to what you can do with "layers" in a paint program.

Add to that a fantastic user community and the best customer support I've ever seen and IMO CC3 is a tough act to follow.  That is the overarching reason why I'm so excited about CC2 and the new CC3 upgrade.


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## Droogie (Jun 17, 2006)

I'm having trouble with it. Getting polys to display the bitmap fills you want seems to be a crapshoot. I'm thinking there are lots of bugs that still need to be squashed. the program doesn't seem to like the taste of converted cc2 maps, although I can make fancy new maps in cc3 ok. For now, I'm going to keep using cc2.


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 18, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> If you are a regestered user you can log in to the PF site and there is link for purchase of download version.



I am a registered user of *Fractal Mapper* - what I want to see is the offer to upgrade from *Fractal Mapper*, not C C 2. Kind of hard to upgrade from a program that you do not have, eh?

The Auld Grump, and the offer to upgrade from FM is mentioned on the CC3 site, but no link.


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 18, 2006)

shaylon said:
			
		

> OK.  I am a Dundjinni user.  The website says that I will be able to buy it at an early adopter price after 6/15/06.  How do I do this?  Nowhere that I can see is it available for sale.  I read the CC2 upgrader's instructions but I do not qualify for that.
> 
> Anyone have any idea how I can buy this thing?
> 
> -Shay



I see someone posted your question is on the mail list but no answer yet.


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 18, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I see someone posted your question is on the mail list but no answer yet.



as soon as I post...


> Unfortunately Simon didn't have a chance to implement the ordering system by
> Friday. I expect it early next week. Please understand that, while we put
> out good faith dates, sometimes things happen that prevent us from doing
> what we say we will do on that specific date, sometimes it takes a few days
> ...


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## TheAuldGrump (Jun 18, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> as soon as I post...



'Kay, back to waiting... 

The Auld Grump


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## ProFantasy (Jun 18, 2006)

We are hoping to get the Early Adopter version for Dundjinni. Fractal Mapper, and other users out midweek. Initial tech support has been much, much, lower than you'd expect from a new release (we are very suprised.) 

I'll update the profantasy.com/cc3 page, the front page, and post on EnWorld when it is available.

Simon


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## jaerdaph (Jun 19, 2006)

FYI: CC3 will be available from 21st June for Dundjinni and Fractal Mapper users:

http://www.profantasy.com/cc3/


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## shaylon (Jun 19, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> I see someone posted your question is on the mail list but no answer yet.




Thank you for letting me know, and thank you for responding to this thread Simon!  I look forward to further instructions as they become available.

-Shay


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## D'karr (Jun 21, 2006)

Simon Rogers at Profantasy just posted the following:



> Anyone who bought CC2 Pro or a CC2 Pro Upgrade from December 2005 to date, or bought at a convention in 2005 gets a voucher for a discounted or free version of the CC3 Early Adopter version. I have emailed everyone I know of (rpgnow.com and ProFantasy customers) with the vouchers. If you have not received one, go here http://www.profantasy.com/cc3/upgradeextra.html
> and follow the instructions. Nigel will no doubt be pleased to here from you.
> 
> Simon




So if you bought a copy of CC2 Pro during those dates and have not received a voucher go to the site.


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## Ayrk (Jun 22, 2006)

So can some explain to me how I actually order CC3 if I already own Dundjinni? I've scoured the website and see where it talks that I can order it, but nowhere can I find out how.

Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind, I see that it has moved from the 21st to the 23rd.


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## Zulithe (Jun 24, 2006)

The release has yet again been changed. This time to the 28th. Argh


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## ProFantasy (Jun 24, 2006)

Sorry about the delay. There is an installation issue which affects 1 in 200 customers which we want to fix, and we've corrected most reported bugs for this new version, including one which might have affected Dundjinni customers. We are also trying to get the main website updated so that everything makes sense, and get our eTailers ready. 

Believe me, we are anxious to get this software out - the levels of tech support are relatively low, and the upgraders on the CC2-l list are coming up with some great looking maps.

Simon


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## Michael Morris (Jun 25, 2006)

EDIT: Nevermind - I need to get my eyes checked (at maximum zoom some of the lines are so close together they're only a pixel apart).


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## Michael Morris (Jun 25, 2006)

How do you import a image file for use as a reference in this thing?


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 25, 2006)

Spoony Bard said:
			
		

> How do you import a image file for use as a reference in this thing?



looks like it only imports PNG or Bitmaps!


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## Wonko the Sane (Jun 25, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> looks like it only imports PNG or Bitmaps!




Fortunately, programs like Irfanview exist.  Just open the jpeg/other image file with it, select File-->Save As and pick png or bmp.  I'm not sure if you can set transparent areas with it, though.  I just use it to make spiffy icons


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## Michael Morris (Jun 25, 2006)

I found it.  File format is meaningless, I have Macromedia Fireworks and the full version of Adobe Photoshop to handle image types 

Well, I'm at the end of my first day with CC3.  I think I'm in love.  Here's a before and after shot of Dabrinia.  The before is CC2 doctored up in Fireworks.


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## Michael Morris (Jun 25, 2006)

Here's a zoomed in after to show off the Classical Greek city symbol set (thank you Profantasy!)


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## Imruphel (Jun 25, 2006)

Is CC3 as much as a resource-hog as Dunjinni?

I've totally given up on Dundjinni as my PC basically stops working when I use it (and my PC has 1GB of RAM etc... and still this happens).


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## Michael Morris (Jun 25, 2006)

The map I'm working on is rendering much faster in CC3 than it did in CC2 - but I don't know if my computer is a good measuring stick - it's a 3Ghz Pent 4 with a dual core processor, 4GB of RAM and an NVidia card with 64 MB video RAM -- pretty much bleeding edge for either program.


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## ProFantasy (Jun 25, 2006)

Imruphel said:
			
		

> Is CC3 as much as a resource-hog as Dunjinni?
> 
> I've totally given up on Dundjinni as my PC basically stops working when I use it (and my PC has 1GB of RAM etc... and still this happens).





The display routines for CC3 are custom written in assembly language, and I'm pretty sure that there is no other PC software which displays large bitmap images more quickly. It has no restriction on canvas size, and will make use of any resources you give it (for example, loading png images into memory). It swaps between four image sizes depending on the zoom so that it can maintain speed without losing resolution. With effects on too it starts to slow down, but the idea is your create your map with effects on, then add effects and turn them on when you need them. For slow systems you can switch to losing lower resolution images until you need more detail.

The price for this great speed is lack of system portability.

Simon


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## Hand of Evil (Jun 25, 2006)

Did the following in about 30 minutes, still has a lot of work, roads, cities, special freatures and


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## jaerdaph (Jun 28, 2006)

It's available now guys for Fractal Mapper and Dundjini users. More info:

http://www.profantasy.com/community/news.asp

You can order directly from here:

http://www.profantasy.com/cc3/order.asp


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## Mercule (Jun 28, 2006)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Did the following in about 30 minutes, still has a lot of work, roads, cities, special freatures and




I am truly envious of your CC-foo.


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