# What is THE standard of hex grids?



## Longtooth Studios (Sep 29, 2009)

Things have been moving along nicely here at Longtooth Studios. Our boards have been well received and we are getting ready to expand our product line. 
  Hex grid boards have been our #1 requested item. The trouble is that I am having a hard time deciding on what to make the standard size of our hex. 
  I know that 1” seems common, but I am not pleased with its performance. Due to the shape you really end up with a very tight packed group of minis depending on the scale. 1.25 seems to give the mini a little more room and I have created prototypes based on this size and they have performed well. 
  Before putting the hammer down on the subject, I was hoping to get some feedback from the community. 
  SO all of you hex users chime in, what do you think is the perfect size hex for you gaming table?
  Any discussion about the use of hex in general?


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## Longtooth Studios (Sep 29, 2009)

Pics up on the website


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## TheAuldGrump (Sep 29, 2009)

I actually like the standard 1" hex. I use a bunch of terrain, some cardstock, some resin, some plastic, and one or two of plaster - using a non standard frid tends to throw the scale for me. (For a while some of my friends had a 1.5" grid.  They played Clix games a lot.)

The Auld Grump


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## Aexalon (Sep 29, 2009)

Suggestion: I'd change the indentation order in your hex tiles from [- - - + + +] to [- + - + - +]. This way you don't need 4 different 2-indentation edge pieces ( [- -], [- +], [+ -], and[+ +] ), but only 2 ( [- +] and [+ -] ). The need for both 1-indentation edge pieces ( [-] and [+] ) would remain unchanged.


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## Longtooth Studios (Sep 29, 2009)

Aexalon said:


> Suggestion: I'd change the indentation order in your hex tiles from [- - - + + +] to [- + - + - +]. This way you don't need 4 different 2-indentation edge pieces ( [- -], [- +], [+ -], and[+ +] ), but only 2 ( [- +] and [+ -] ). The need for both 1-indentation edge pieces ( [-] and [+] ) would remain unchanged.





Thanks, will look into that!


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## ExploderWizard (Sep 29, 2009)

I like 50mm hexes. The average size of gaming minis has gotten slightly larger since the 25mm days and these figures are coming with larger bases. It is nice to have an ogre or troll on a somewhat larger than 1" base still fit into a single hex or square. 

Would it be possible to make double sided tiles with a larger grid on one side? That would be the best of both worlds and certainly worth paying more per tile for the flexibility.


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## pawsplay (Sep 29, 2009)

1". Roomier hexes might be kind of nice sometimes, I guess, but hitting the edge of the map is always a pain.


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## S'mon (Sep 29, 2009)

How big do they need to be that a figure with a square 1" base can fit inside a hex?  That's the biggest size you should consider.  I think though most figures now are on 1" round bases that will fit in a 1" hex.


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## Longtooth Studios (Sep 30, 2009)

Anyone using hex for RPG, or is this mostly just for wargamers?


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## grodog (Sep 30, 2009)

A lot of gamers have a lot of 25mm minis out there, so I'd still offer support for that size (1" hex, or perhaps even .75" or so).  

Can you prototype the various sizes we've mentioned so far, with different sized minis there (IronWind/Ral Partha or Grenadier for 25mm, Reaper or Otherworld for 28mm, etc.)?


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## underthumb (Sep 30, 2009)

I play GURPS, and 1" hexes are the standard for GURPS tactical combat. I would definitely purchase battlegraph boards with 1" hexes (assuming they are measured from flat to flat).


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## ExploderWizard (Sep 30, 2009)

S'mon said:


> How big do they need to be that a figure with a square 1" base can fit inside a hex? That's the biggest size you should consider. I think though most figures now are on 1" round bases that will fit in a 1" hex.




1" bases are no problem at all. The problem comes from minis with larger bases that are supposed to represent a creature that takes up only 1 square/hex per the rules of the game. 

Reaper Miniatures :: FigureFinder

This guy is a normal sized human figure which does not fit on a 1" base. There are also ogres, trolls, and other medium to large sized humanoids that are supposed to occupy 1 space but a 1" grid will not accomodate the actual mini. 

Double sided for the win.


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## Longtooth Studios (Oct 1, 2009)

Double sided is not an option at the moment, but yeah that would be pie. 
Quality dry erase surface is not easily done. 

Since we are small and we are still taking web orders only, I have the ability to custom scale the grid, but the size of the board will have to change with it. 

We have the ability ad custom logo or text to the border pieces.

Obviously the customization would come with a cost, but I think we can offer that service to those who would use it. 

This is very helpful info guys, keep the posts coming.

Anyone interested in using hex for RPG, or is this exclusively war gaming?


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## underthumb (Oct 1, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Anyone interested in using hex for RPG, or is this exclusively war gaming?




I think there are plenty of other GURPS RPG gamers like myself who use tactical combat, but I don't know of any other currently supported RPG that specifies 1" hexes as standard. (Though it's possible that I'm simply not informed).


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## sjmiller (Oct 1, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Anyone interested in using hex for RPG, or is this exclusively war gaming?



I use hex boards for GURPS, Living Legends, Traveller, and any other game I can convert to hexes. I prefer hex to square, to be honest.


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## Doug Sundseth (Oct 1, 2009)

1" hexes are not ideal, but they're pretty standard.  If you want your product to work with the stuff people already have (Hint:  I think that would be a good idea.  , you'll want to use a 1" hex.


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## grodog (Oct 1, 2009)

I can definitely see using the dry erase hexes for a wilderness trek in D&D, for example, or for exploring space in Traveller (esp. if you had reverse color hexes:  black with white lines).


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## Ravellion (Oct 1, 2009)

grodog said:


> I can definitely see using the dry erase hexes for a wilderness trek in D&D, for example, or for exploring space in Traveller (esp. if you had reverse color hexes:  black with white lines).



Oh? And how would you draw on such a board?


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## Marshall (Oct 1, 2009)

From what I can remember, the vast amjority of non-RPG mini games use a 1.5" Hex and even D&D minis would do well more space for the occaisional odd poses.


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## Longtooth Studios (Oct 2, 2009)

.75", 1", 1.25", 1.5"
does that about sum up what most would expect to find hexes ranging in?


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## Longtooth Studios (Oct 2, 2009)

I haven't done the math, but  do these sizes corelate with metric, or do they not match up at all?


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## grodog (Oct 5, 2009)

Ravellion said:


> Oh? And how would you draw on such a board?




Well, if I was building a prototype, I'd do one with matte black colors and see if standard Expo non-black pens would write on it, and I'd also investigate the availability (if any) for white dry erase pens (and then, if available, bulk purchases  ).  

I just figured the non-black pens would work fine, but hey, that's why it's an experiment, right?


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## ExploderWizard (Oct 5, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> .75", 1", 1.25", 1.5"
> does that about sum up what most would expect to find hexes ranging in?




That kind of variety would be awesome!!


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## Thunderfoot (Oct 5, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> I haven't done the math, but  do these sizes corelate with metric, or do they not match up at all?




Without breaking out my slide rule - I think this covers 15mm to 54mm for the most part.  For wargaming, it should really fit the bill.  As for RPG, some of us old fogies still remember indoor is square/outdoor is hex.


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## Intrope (Oct 5, 2009)

I've long used a set of 1" hex tiles, and sometimes it does become a bit choked if there are lots of critters on the map. 1.25" might be better but I'd think 1.5" would be too large (not enough hexes in the table space available).


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## jaerdaph (Oct 5, 2009)

Thunderfoot said:


> As for RPG, some of us old fogies still remember indoor is square/outdoor is hex.




Damn straight!

And quoted for truth!


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## ExploderWizard (Oct 5, 2009)

jaerdaph said:


> Damn straight!
> 
> And quoted for truth!




Yeah but on a hex map that players can see, how can they wander off in the wrong direction without noticing?


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## jaerdaph (Oct 5, 2009)

ExploderWizard said:


> Yeah but on a hex map that players can see, how can they wander off in the wrong direction without noticing?




They're too distracted puzzling over why they can't ever go due east or west.


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## ExploderWizard (Oct 5, 2009)

jaerdaph said:


> They're too distracted puzzling over why they can't ever go due east or west.




That's easy! Just rotate the map 90 degrees and off you go.


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## jaerdaph (Oct 5, 2009)

ExploderWizard said:


> That's easy! Just rotate the map 90 degrees and off you go.




LOL! 

I loved those clear transparencies with the hex grids printed on them that TSR included in some of their boxed campaign settings like the original Ravenloft boxed set for use with the overland maps back in the day.


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## bugnutz (Oct 6, 2009)

*Hex size*

I play primarily Hero System which uses 1" hexes as its base.  However, we often use hero clix or other such clix miniatures which have a slightly larger base and it usually ends up getting pretty jumbled up. 

So I could see 1.25" accommodating these types of miniatures much better.  Any larger than that and the table space required to get a good number of hexes on the table could be problematic.  I think 1.5" would be too big. 

But we have always made due with the 1" hexes and that size would work for us the majority of the time.

Thanks.  Looking forward to the hex product.


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## underthumb (Oct 6, 2009)

Is there an ETA on the product? I could really use some 1" hex battlegraph boards.


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## Longtooth Studios (Oct 23, 2009)

Hammering out the kinks. Want everything to be right when we turn them loose.

I think we will stick with the 1.25. Would that just ruin it for anyone? List reasons why.

Our reasoning is that we are focused on making them as versatile as possible. We want them to appeal to war gamers as well as role players. 

On the side I would keep the option open for customization, but for primary production, I think that the 1.25 would hit more than it misses.


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## Tequila Sunrise (Oct 24, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Anyone using hex for RPG, or is this mostly just for wargamers?



I use hex exclusively for D&D. I'm not into minis, so size doesn't matter a whole lot to me. One of my players brings minis though, and 1" does the trick. A little bigger may or may not be nice; certainly not any smaller.


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## underthumb (Oct 24, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Hammering out the kinks. Want everything to be right when we turn them loose.
> 
> I think we will stick with the 1.25. Would that just ruin it for anyone? List reasons why.




Bummer, 1.25 is a no-go for me. (I hope the customization option isn't too pricey.) I have miniature bases for GURPS that are basically made up of multiple 1" hexes, and I need them to align precisely to the grid, or things get sloppy.


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## Thunderfoot (Oct 25, 2009)

ExploderWizard said:


> Yeah but on a hex map that players can see, how can they wander off in the wrong direction without noticing?



The players can, but their characters are completely clueless.   Some of us still enforce, player/character knowledge separation.


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## sjmiller (Oct 25, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Hammering out the kinks. Want everything to be right when we turn them loose.
> 
> I think we will stick with the 1.25. Would that just ruin it for anyone? List reasons why.
> 
> ...



For me and my group 1.5" hexes is a complete miss for every game we play, both RPG and wargame. Everything we play that uses a hex grid uses 1" hexes. All our miniatures are based for 1" hexes. All the scenery is based on 1" hexes. For us, a map board that uses 1.5" hexes would be completely useless.

Darn, I was hoping to get some of these. If you do 1" hexes, we are in, otherwise, I think it is a pass.


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## Catskinner (Nov 7, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Hammering out the kinks. Want everything to be right when we turn them loose.
> 
> I think we will stick with the 1.25. Would that just ruin it for anyone? List reasons why.
> 
> ...



The exact size is critical for people who buy miniatures.  I'm a RPGer, rarely a wargamer, and most of the RPG groups I've been in over the last decade have either made their own markers, or used such a wide assortment that having larger hexes is an improvement.


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## Catskinner (Nov 7, 2009)

Longtooth Studios said:


> Anyone using hex for RPG, or is this mostly just for wargamers?



I'm play & run RPGs.  My group has largely switched to a networkable graphics program for its game maps, but I prefer the dry erase variety. Computer maps are great when you plan out a "dungeon" in advance, but I'm running a character driven plotline.  There are no guarantees of where the characters will go, and 99% of what they are doing is outdoors.  Generating a wide variety of wilderness maps is much on the fly, the old fashioned way.


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## Catskinner (Nov 7, 2009)

*Transparent Tiles*

Have you considered making the tiles from a transparent material?
Some factors:


*Durability*: while likely more resistant to gross physical damage, scratches become an issue.

*Convenience*: drawing on paper with regular markers/crayons is easier, and over the long run cheaper, then dry erase markers.
*Background Variation*: for the hardcore, green paper for outdoor, blue for water, and so forth.  When I was doing this with my roll-up hex map, I had folders of cut out scenery for terrain, which I would lay on the background, then thrown down the map; very nice.
*Layers*: used in conjunction with your other tiles, clear tiles could make multi-level battles more convenient.


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## AverageCitizen (Nov 7, 2009)

Tequila Sunrise said:


> I use hex exclusively for D&D. I'm not into minis, so size doesn't matter a whole lot to me. One of my players brings minis though, and 1" does the trick. A little bigger may or may not be nice; certainly not any smaller.




What edition are you playing?

We use 4e and have been seriously considering trying to switch it over to a hex system. What are the advantages/drawbacks?



Note for the OP: We don't use minis, we just dice and coins and stuff, so the size doesn't really matter. Closer to 1' the better, I'd guess.


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## Intrope (Nov 8, 2009)

AverageCitizen said:


> What edition are you playing?
> 
> We use 4e and have been seriously considering trying to switch it over to a hex system. What are the advantages/drawbacks?
> 
> ...



I've been playing 4e on hex grid pretty much since it came out. Everything seems to work just fine. It has the positive result that bursts look circular--but the only way we could figure out to do close blasts makes them rhombuses. Which works ok, it just looks odd.


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## AverageCitizen (Nov 8, 2009)

Couldn't you also do it like a spread away from you on the flat axis of your space? Kinda like how they did it in 3.5, you can either shoot it at a corner or in the flat direction.


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## AverageCitizen (Nov 8, 2009)

Like this:







With the red and the blue representing two possible orientations of a close blast 2.


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## Intrope (Nov 8, 2009)

AverageCitizen said:


> Like this:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



That's exactly how I am doing it. So I'm not sure what you are asking here.

Basically, what I'm saying is that the best match to the RAW for Close Blast appears to me to be a rhombus with side length = to Blast #. Which you can then place anywhere such that at least one hex side touches your hex.

And it looks weird to me is all. Granted, I think Close Blast looks weird on a square grid too. I don't actually have a mechanical issue with it, just an aesthetic one.


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## AverageCitizen (Nov 9, 2009)

I think going to Hex justifies having a spread for the alternative angle.

This is as direct an interpretation to Hex I could create while still using two directions. 







That considerered, we're probably gonna do it like this:






I had to cheat a little but I think its a good translation and it'll be easier to implement.

PS. If somebody ever actually has a CB 2, I'll consider giving them back that red I took off the one angle. It's just easier to see the pattern this way.


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## schoon (Nov 21, 2009)

I would vote for the 1.25 inch hexes, agreeing that it gives the minis a little more room, and templates are fairly easy to adjust regardless of the hex size.


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## Intrope (Nov 22, 2009)

Ah, I see. We do only the upper-right version in your first diagram--with the note that the character can be adjacent to any hex of the blast area. One of my fellow players made a CB3 & CB5 template for checking this, which helps.


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