# How to Handle a Druid's Animal Companion



## jbear (Dec 6, 2011)

I need some advice on the Druid's Animal companion. The Druid I have built is geared for melee (Wild Shape) at the cost of his Charisma (7). So now his Handle Animal check is very low: 1 Rank 3 Class ability +4 bonus from Empathy and -2 Charisma =+6 

So I need to roll a 14 to make my Cheetah attack? Otherwise what does it do?

The companion has 2 Intelligence, so as my Druid is Human:

What happens if I give up my bonus feat and put a +2 in my AComp's INT score, raising it to 4? Can I now talk to my companion and tell it what I want it to do and have it understand me and cooperate with me as an ally would avoiding the need to Handle it? This is the best solution I can think of but have failed to find a rule for this.


Thanks to anyone who can give me a bit of advice on  this. Otherwise it seems at lvl 1 the ACOmp. is a bit of a toerag: tags along but not  much use to anyone.


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## Flatus Maximus (Dec 6, 2011)

I think even with the increased Int, you'd still need to make a Handle Animal check to have it do "tricks," e.g., Attack. I think what you need is _speak with animals_ -- then you can actually talk to the animal and tell it what to do. Since it is your companion, presumably it'll do what you ask (within reason) without the need for a check. I'm not 100% on this, but that's the way we've played it.

Anytime I've played a character with an animal companion, my first priority is to buy/craft a _speak with animals_ item for exactly this reason.

Edit: Note that _speak with animals_ will also help with _summon nature's ally_, without which you can't direct the summons very well.

Also: When the animal companion hits fourth level, you can put the stat boost into Int, which will allow your animal companion to take any feat it qualifies for, not just the feats listed for animal companions.


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## Flatus Maximus (Dec 6, 2011)

Yay! My first double post!


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## Dingo333 (Dec 6, 2011)

Animal companions get "Bonus tricks" so you do not actually need to teach it to attack

If the animal is a combat ally you want to teach it these tricks

Attack (once fore general attacks, again for unnatural foes)
Defend
Down
Guard
Heel

This leaves you 1 trick left, i suggest track, but it is your choice

The DC is all to train the animal, to get it to attack when it knows the attack trick you need a 4 or better (DC 10)

Finally, if you raise its Int above 2, it effectivly becomes as smart as a human you will no longer need handle animal to command it


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## Flatus Maximus (Dec 7, 2011)

Dingo333 said:


> Animal companions get "Bonus tricks" so you do not actually need to teach it to attack




No, but you do need to tell it _to_ attack, and _who_ to attack.



Dingo333 said:


> Finally, if you raise its Int above 2, it effectivly becomes as smart as a human you will no longer need handle animal to command it




I don't think this is right. It still needs to be told what to do, so either you speak to it in its language (_speak with animals_), or you need a Handle Animal check to tell it to Attack. An Int of 3+ just lets it pick a wider variety of feats. I could be wrong, but I'd like to see links/quotes if I am.


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## Dingo333 (Dec 7, 2011)

from D20PFSRD.com

on Int



> Creatures of animal-level instinct have Intelligence scores of 1 or 2. Any creature capable of understanding speech has a score of at least 3.




on the Animal creature type



> Intelligence score of 1 or 2 (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal)




from the handle animal skill



> Low Intelligence Non-Animals: You can use this skill on a creature with an Intelligence score of 1 or 2 that is not an animal, but the DC of any such check increases by 5. Such creatures have the same limit on tricks known as animals do.




while I can not find anywhere what exactly happens when an animal gains 3+ Int, based on the quotes I think it is something like this:

Gains and understands at least 1 language

Can reason and think for its self

Is no longer affectable by Handle animal skill so to use in combat means you have to actually speak to it. Speak to Animal is one way to do this, but I would have the animal learn druidic (they really gonna toss you out of the order for teaching your animal companion druidic?) and use commands in that language.

So if you find yourself with a bear who is smarter then the average, I would suggest before combat talking to him and saying, you should always try to flank the guy that guy (pointing at rouge) is attacking. A 4 INT is smart enough to realize how much of a boon in battle that could be and would at least try to do that (putting his life in danger to do that is another story)

P.S. I just rechecked and to order your animal companion to attack via Handle Animal for a druid or ranger (or anyone with an animal companion) is a free action. I would think this would include who but if your DM is splitting hairs over that they have issues.


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## jbear (Dec 7, 2011)

Thanks for your input both of you.

Handle DC 10 makes a huge difference. I had thought the DCs to train the trick were the DCs to use them in  combat. Phew!

This seems like a funny area in any case. If you raise your ACopm's INT you can no  longer Handle it ... But no clear cut clarification that it is going to cooperate with you. And even funnier that in the Paizo blog they rule that you still have to Handle Intelligent animals. 

In any case thanks again for your help!


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## Flatus Maximus (Dec 7, 2011)

Dingo333 said:


> Gains and understands at least 1 language
> 
> Can reason and think for its self
> 
> Is no longer affectable by Handle animal skill so to use in combat means you have to actually speak to it. Speak to Animal is one way to do this, but I would have the animal learn druidic (they really gonna toss you out of the order for teaching your animal companion druidic?) and use commands in that language.




Perhaps a minor quibble, but I don't think the animal suddenly learns a language if its Int is bumped to 3, though it does now have the _capacity_ to learn a language. So one thing you could do (if you don't have _speak with animals_ always on): bump the Int to 3 and then have the animal take a rank in Linguistics and learn Common. Now the animal can understand the entire party. I don't think you need Handle Animal checks now to do any of its tricks, but the other party members might (I guess it depends on the situation). Keep in mind that it is still Int 3, which is not very smart, so complicated ideas/tactics/etc. will probably be beyond its ability to understand.

Anyway, this might all be a moot point. I'd suggest talking with the DM -- s/he might be willing to hand-wave away all these issues. (My DM couldn't be bothered with all this stuff, so to make life simpler I crafted the aforementioned _speak with animals_ item and he called it good enough.)


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## TheAuldGrump (Dec 7, 2011)

The bad news is that you _can't_ raise an animal's Int above 2 - from the D20PFSRD - 
Animal

An animal is a living, nonhuman creature, usually a vertebrate with no magical abilities and no innate capacity for language or culture. Animals usually have additional information on how they can serve as companions.

An animal has the following features (unless otherwise noted).

    d8 Hit Die.
    Base attack bonus equal to 3/4 total Hit Dice (medium progression).
    Good Fortitude and Reflex saves.
    Skill points equal to 2 + Int modifier (minimum 1) per Hit Die. The following are class skills for animals: Acrobatics, Climb, Fly, Perception, Stealth, and Swim.

Traits: An animal possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in a creature's entry).

    Intelligence score of 1 or 2* (no creature with an Intelligence score of 3 or higher can be an animal)*.
    Low-light vision.
    Alignment: Always neutral.
    Treasure: None.
    Proficient with its natural weapons only. A noncombative herbivore treats its natural weapons as secondary attacks. Such attacks are made with a –5 penalty on the creature's attack rolls, and the animal receives only 1/2 its Strength modifier as a damage adjustment.
    Proficient with no armor unless trained for war. (See FAQs and Handle Animal Skill.)
    Animals breathe, eat, and sleep.

If Awakened using the Awaken spell then it can no longer be an animal companion, but can become a cohort.

The Auld Grump


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## IronWolf (Dec 8, 2011)

TheAuldGrump said:


> The bad news is that you _can't_ raise an animal's Int above 2 - from the D20PFSRD -
> Animal




This FAQ/Blog Post sort of addresses the corner cases where this might be possible and how to handle it.

FAQ on Intelligent Animals


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## tylermalan (Dec 8, 2011)

Do animal companions roll initiative in combat and have separate turns from the druid?


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## IronWolf (Dec 8, 2011)

tylermalan said:


> Do animal companions roll initiative in combat and have separate turns from the druid?




I generally just include the animal companion on the druid's initiative.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 8, 2011)

IronWolf said:


> This FAQ/Blog Post sort of addresses the corner cases where this might be possible and how to handle it.
> 
> FAQ on Intelligent Animals




Thanks, but I really dislike this FAQ.



> The Handle Animal skill functions similarly no  matter how intelligent an animal becomes. A character must still make  Handle Animal checks to train his animal and get him to perform the  appropriate tasks. A GM should, however, make exceptions in the case of  how such an intelligent animal might react in absence of instructions.  It might not know to unlock a door to escape a burning building—as  that's a fact that's learned over time and experience—but a smart animal  might have a better chance of finding a way out.




I'm no animal trainer or expert, but I believe that increasingly intelligent animals should be able to learn how to open a door without someone investing training time. All apes and monkeys in zoos couldn't escape from non-locked doors with handles just because no trainer invested time to teach them?

And does the text imply you cannot choose the animals skills and feats?



> ... but a GM should feel safe in assuming that it  might take years to actually teach Common to an intelligent animal. All  of this, of course, assumes that the animal even bothers to fill that  language slot. Possessing the ability to use a language does not  necessarily mean that such an ability is utilized.




So it is the GM's choice where to place the skill points?

And what about sign using primates in the real world? Are they all in truth magically awakened or some nature priest's companions?


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## IronWolf (Dec 8, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Thanks, but I really dislike this FAQ.




I just linked to it as indication of the idea Pathfinder is heading regarding intelligence and animal companions. So I wouldn't say I was a huge defender of it, beyond as a reference to how the game designers seem to want to take this issue.



			
				Walking Dad said:
			
		

> I'm no animal trainer or expert, but I believe that increasingly intelligent animals should be able to learn how to open a door without someone investing training time. All apes and monkeys in zoos couldn't escape from non-locked doors with handles just because no trainer invested time to teach them?




I think a lot of this is just giving the GM some room to work with if the player suddenly thinks the animal can automatically find a way out because the animal has some intelligence now. A GM could easily say, yes your ape easily opens the door as he's watched you do it 100's of times. Or he has some backing to say, no your pig cannot open the door.




			
				Walking Dad said:
			
		

> So it is the GM's choice where to place the skill points?




No, I think it is again just giving some rule to GM to have wiggle room if a player is saying my animal will learn common today, the GM can reply with okay - but that is going to take some time. Or in other games the GM may simply say that sounds fine. I think they are trying to avoid stripping decision making power from the GM in these grayish scenarios.



			
				Walking Dad said:
			
		

> And what about sign using primates in the real world? Are they all in truth magically awakened or some nature priest's companions?




I prefer to think of them as magically awakened!


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## Walking Dad (Dec 8, 2011)

I'm fine with the conclusions of most of it.

I hate all day animal druids (was more a problem in 3.5) and plate wearing apes swinging greatswords...



IronWolf said:


> ... I think they are trying to avoid stripping decision making power from the GM in these grayish scenarios.
> ...




But Pathfinder is defining everything in it's rules. That was one of the great strength/weaknesses of the parent system.

The easiest solution would have been to only allow physical stats increase for animal companions.

I hate that increasing Int is the "great" option to have sword wielding monkeys.


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## paradox42 (Dec 8, 2011)

What's wrong with sword-wielding monkeys? That's what every *human* sword-wielder is, after all.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 8, 2011)

Monkey's have tails...

and to seriously answer to the first part:

It just kills my immersion and doesn't seem to be RAI of the companion rules.


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## paradox42 (Dec 9, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> Monkey's have tails...



Oh, okay. So you'd have no problem with a sword-wielding gorilla, or chimp, or orangutan, then (none of those have tails). Cool.


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## IronWolf (Dec 9, 2011)

Walking Dad said:


> It just kills my immersion and doesn't seem to be RAI of the companion rules.




I totally get that. I have several things that I just don't like because it breaks my immersion, so I can certainly respect that.


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## jbear (Dec 13, 2011)

For me the point is moot as my initial problem was that Handle Animal trick DCs seemed way too high. But i had failed to notice that those were the DCs to teach the skill to the animal.

I was thinking having a high INT could mitigate this. In the end it was unnecessary. 

I certainly wasn't thinking of a sword wielding gorilla as a companion. More of a companion like Lassie or the horse from Entangled. Real smart. Not just a dunb rotweiler that hangs around with you because you feed it.

It shouldn't be too strange that a druid's animals companion should be exceptionally clever.


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## jefgorbach (Dec 13, 2011)

At one time I would have agreed that animals were too ignorant to learn anything beyond simple tricks (roll over, fetch, guard, etc), viewing Lassie and company as the peak of what a druid's companion could be expected to accomplish ....

.... then I got beagles. My trio of lovable "little kids" have completely rewritten my opinion regarding what untrained critters can learn to accomplish simply from observing daily behavior surrounding them. (Who knew a 13"h beagle could EASILY open closed doors? Reach the top of standard kitchen counters?  I didnt ... until I had to start LOCKING the knobs.) 

They, coupled with various articles/vids of wild creatures employing simple tools (gulls/otters using rocks to open clams, monkeys using twigs in a variety of ways including advanced grooming, etc have VASTLY expanded what I've come to believe even minimally intelligent companions could achieve simply by following the example of its daily companions.

Considering the National Geographic has several articles regarding chimps hunting with twig-spears and gorillas defending their region with thrown dirt-clumps/wooden clubs, its quite conceivable for any semi-dexterous creature with near-human IQ to do likewise, with their ability to properly utilize armor/weapons corresponding to their exposure to such.


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## Gavinfoxx (Dec 14, 2011)

Don't the Attack and Attack Any tricks cause it to automatically target the nearest threat?  And you only have to Handle Animal if, for example, you want to change the animal's attack priorities?


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## TheAuldGrump (Dec 14, 2011)

IronWolf said:


> This FAQ/Blog Post sort of addresses the corner cases where this might be possible and how to handle it.
> 
> FAQ on Intelligent Animals



After reading the FAQ, then spending some time thinking about it... I think that I will ignore it for my own campaigns, and keep the hard limit on Intelligence for animals - sentient creatures can increase their Intelligence by going up in levels/hit dice/etc. but animals need to be Awakened. Lassie may have been a well trained collie, but he did not gain sentience. (Despite the name, all the Lassies were male.)

If a player wants Scooby Doo then he will have to awaken a great Dane.

Thank you for pointing it out to me, even if I pretty much disagree with that part of the FAQ.

The Auld Grump


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## Noumenon (Feb 11, 2012)

Flatus Maximus said:


> Also: When the animal companion hits fourth level, you can put the stat boost into Int, which will allow your animal companion to take any feat it qualifies for, not just the feats listed for animal companions.




I couldn't find this Int prerequisite for feats listed on the SRD (feats page, animal companion, animal type). Could it have been a 3.0 thing?


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## Flatus Maximus (Feb 11, 2012)

Noumenon said:


> I couldn't find this Int prerequisite for feats listed on the SRD (feats page, animal companion, animal type). Could it have been a 3.0 thing?




Animal Companions - Pathfinder_OGC

Scroll down to the Feat section, Animal Feat subsection. It's the last line of text.


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## Noumenon (Feb 11, 2012)

I need to start being very careful about what forum my Google search results are pointing to. I see now it's a pathfinder thing.


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