# Is it going to happen?



## Knightfall (Dec 6, 2007)

I'm curious as to what the situation is for EN World 2. Why didn't it happen? Still too many bugs or something?

Just curious,

Knightfall1972


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## Bront (Dec 6, 2007)

It's in development.

It's a complete code overhaul, so it's almost entirely custom.  It's very sweet looking, and much of it is done.

It is however, very late compared to the intended time.  However, I think we'd all rather have it right than soon.

Mike is doing some very good work, so it will be worth the wait


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## thalmin (Dec 6, 2007)

Can you give us a very rough guesstimate? Are we looking at days? Weeks? Months? Whatever it takes is fine, we do want it right more than soon, but some idea will help prevent the incessant "Are we almost there yet" questions that are bound to start popping up. (I know I'm starting to bind some myself   )


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## Umbran (Dec 6, 2007)

thalmin said:
			
		

> Can you give us a very rough guesstimate? Are we looking at days? Weeks? Months? Whatever it takes is fine, we do want it right more than soon, but some idea will help prevent the incessant "Are we almost there yet" questions that are bound to start popping up. (I know I'm starting to bind some myself   )




Estimates will only stop questions if we are, in fact, sure that we can meet them.

EN World 2 Development has a very low Truck Factor - very few people need to be hit by trucks for it to stop.  Given that there is Real Life involved, we would be foolish to give estimates in which we have low confidence.

Plus, it isn't like 4e, where you would want to reconsider your habits if you knew the date.  Nothing you do depends on the date, so why should we set expectations on it?  It'll be here when it is ready, and not a moment before.


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## Crothian (Dec 6, 2007)

Well, my ability (and others) to post reviews does depend on the date since we can't do it with the errors of the current system.


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## stonegod (Dec 6, 2007)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Plus, it isn't like 4e, where you would want to reconsider your habits if you knew the date.  Nothing you do depends on the date, so why should we set expectations on it?  It'll be here when it is ready, and not a moment before.



Actually, that is not true. Since I cannot add new subscriptions, I cannot subscribe to items I want to view---I have to hunt them down. This is a change of behavior. Unfortunately, the folks in that thread have ticked off Michael, so it appears that issue may not be addressed soon---the impression I have been given is that it won't be fixed until the ENII rollout. I know I've posted this a few places (the thread I mentioned, the bug list), but I just looking for some definite communication to let me know either: its not being fixed or it will be looked at.


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## Morrus (Dec 6, 2007)

thalmin said:
			
		

> Can you give us a very rough guesstimate? Are we looking at days? Weeks? Months? Whatever it takes is fine, we do want it right more than soon, but some idea will help prevent the incessant "Are we almost there yet" questions that are bound to start popping up. (I know I'm starting to bind some myself   )




I honestly don't know - sorry!


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## Michael Morris (Dec 6, 2007)

stonegod said:
			
		

> Actually, that is not true. Since I cannot add new subscriptions, I cannot subscribe to items I want to view---I have to hunt them down. This is a change of behavior. Unfortunately, the folks in that thread have ticked off Michael, so it appears that issue may not be addressed soon---the impression I have been given is that it won't be fixed until the ENII rollout. I know I've posted this a few places (the thread I mentioned, the bug list), but I just looking for some definite communication to let me know either: its not being fixed or it will be looked at.



 Don't worry, I don't stay mad long.  However, I'm going to make it a point not to read these threads or any others because I have things to do.  I have a long Christmas holiday coming up - I intend to spend as much time as my family allows curled up in front of a computer working on this - but no promises on how much progress will be made in that time.


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## RangerWickett (Dec 6, 2007)

Michael, I can't wait to see what you come up with, but don't stress yourself too much during the holidays.


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## stonegod (Dec 6, 2007)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> Don't worry, I don't stay mad long.  However, I'm going to make it a point not to read these threads or any others because I have things to do.  I have a long Christmas holiday coming up - I intend to spend as much time as my family allows curled up in front of a computer working on this - but no promises on how much progress will be made in that time.



Thanks for the update.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 7, 2007)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Plus, it isn't like 4e, where you would want to reconsider your habits if you knew the date.  Nothing you do depends on the date, so why should we set expectations on it?  It'll be here when it is ready, and not a moment before.




As others have said, I don't think it's an impatience for the new site.  It's that certain things that are broken aren't being fixed while ENW2 is in development.  I know that Michael Morris is if not the only coder, one of only a few (and don't neglect your family MM!) so that puts you guys in a bind.  If you take the time to fix subscriptions, or the review system (broken for how long now Crothian?) that delays the rollout of the new site and spends resources on something that will just be replaced.  Eventually you have to devote 100% of the available resources to getting the new site rolling.  It's a catch-22.

Anyway, I don't think it's a frustration with the rate of progress, I think it's a frustration with  systems breaking down, and being told not only that they're not being worked on, but that you have no clue when the new site is coming out.  It's understandable that you can't give a release date (something VG companies learned long ago   ), but it's frustrating for the users, and probably the administration as well, at the same time.


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## Bront (Dec 7, 2007)

It's the "Are we there yet?" syndrome.

Trust us, you'll know when it shows up


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## buzz (Dec 7, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> Anyway, I don't think it's a frustration with the rate of progress, I think it's a frustration with  systems breaking down, and being told not only that they're not being worked on, but that you have no clue when the new site is coming out.  It's understandable that you can't give a release date (something VG companies learned long ago   ), but it's frustrating for the users, and probably the administration as well, at the same time.



:raises hand:

I admit, as a Community Supporter, ENWorld Gameday organizer, and someone who's donated money every time there was a fundraising drive, I'm a little honked off someone can't just look at line 58 of subscription.php and figure out what's wrong. I honestly had totally forgotten about ENW 2 until this issue came up, and I wasn't even aware of the timeline. I just know that my primary interface for using ENWorld is gone, and apparently isn't coming back anytime soon. As a "customer" of ENWorld, I feel sort of shafted.

That said, I understand that ENWorld is essentially a grassroots community thing, and there's only so many hours in the day, and so many available resources. Not to mention, my life isn't going to end because I can't use a gaming website.

_That_ said, as someone on the web team of a Fortune 500 company that recently did a major upgrade of their site, our stockholders would have shot us if we'd refused to fix functionality on our old site in anticipation of the new site's arrival. Especially given how many delays we experienced in launching it.

So, I feel for ya, ENWorld, but I'm also a little let down.


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## Michael Morris (Dec 7, 2007)

In any Fortune 500 company worth its salt each branch of the code has it's own programming team.  And the problem in subscription.php isn't a single line of code.


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## thalmin (Dec 7, 2007)

Well, good luck with the upgrade. Don't anyone get hit by a truck. And don't let the coding spoil your holidays.
(I still hope we're almost there!   )


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## Blackrat (Dec 7, 2007)

I would so like to ask "are we there yet?", but instead I'll just say take your time, remember to relax too and do let us know when there is anything to tell  .


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## buzz (Dec 7, 2007)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> In any Fortune 500 company worth its salt each branch of the code has it's own programming team.



My company is worth its salt. Ergo, yes, I realize we have far more resources than ENWorld. I was just conveying my perspective.



			
				Michael Morris said:
			
		

> And the problem in subscription.php isn't a single line of code.



If that implies you guys already assessed the problem, that at least makes me feel better. Like I said above, I empathize; I just had some disappointment, too.

So, I'll wait. Good luck and godspeed.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Dec 7, 2007)

Michael Morris said:
			
		

> I intend to spend as much time as my family allows curled up in front of a computer working on this - but no promises on how much progress will be made in that time.



 Well, I hope you take as much time as _you_ need to enjoy the holidays with your family.  Thanks for your effort on this.


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## Mistwell (Dec 7, 2007)

I say follow this procedure:

1) Give an entirely random estimate of when it will be done that is far enough in the future to reduce the number of times this question is asked until that date;
2) If it isn't done by the estimate date, repeat step one.

What, it works for a lot of software companies, why can't it work here?  

(As for all the hard work being put into the new site, I say Go On My Son! Your hard work is/will be appreciated by the masses).


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## Erekose13 (Dec 7, 2007)

I'll admit I'm super eager to see EN2 and miss some of the functionality but it just heightens the anticipation  Take you time MM and the rest of the team. Have a Happy Hannukah and a Merry Christmas!


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## Bront (Dec 8, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I say follow this procedure:
> 
> 1) Give an entirely random estimate of when it will be done that is far enough in the future to reduce the number of times this question is asked until that date;
> 2) If it isn't done by the estimate date, repeat step one.
> ...



Some time before January 1st, 2010.


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## Graf (Dec 10, 2007)

I have a related question... since some of the board stuff seems to be getting a bit fidgety.... should there be some sort of archiving effort prior to EnW 2?

Obviously we lost a lot the last time, maybe it would be a good idea to just say that the boards are transitioning; expect bumps and suggest people scrapbook (or whatever) their favorite threads.


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## Angel Tarragon (Dec 10, 2007)

A couple of quick questions: Will EnWorld 1 & 2 be running side by side, or will 2 replace 1?

If 2 does replace 1, will 2 have a skin to emulate the feel of 1s' forums?


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## buzz (Dec 10, 2007)

If ENW2 could get rid of text on textured backgrounds, that'd be awesome.


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## Mark (Dec 16, 2007)

thalmin said:
			
		

> Well, good luck with the upgrade. Don't anyone get hit by a truck. And don't let the coding spoil your holidays.
> (I still hope we're almost there!   )




Hear!  Hear!


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## Morrus (Dec 16, 2007)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> A couple of quick questions: Will EnWorld 1 & 2 be running side by side, or will 2 replace 1?
> 
> If 2 does replace 1, will 2 have a skin to emulate the feel of 1s' forums?




It replaces it.  It's a complete upgrade (or, in some cases, rewrite) of every single part of the site.  The aims are (1) to fix the many problems we have and (2) provide extra functionality, since we're about 3 years behind every other messageboard out there.  In addition, we have two new main areas planned (although probably not at launch) which are a Gamers Seeking Gamers section and a Publisher/Freelancer recruiting and feedback section.  

"Skin-wise" - it's the last thing on the list (functionality being before looks), but eventually we'll have a few choices for you.  Again, possibly not at launch, but we'll see.


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## Morrus (Dec 16, 2007)

For those interested, here's a look at the latest vBulletin version:

http://www.vbulletin.com/forum/showthread.php?t=249460

That's several versions ahead of what we have now!  But it's the version we're upgrading to.  Some of them are features we've cobbled together ourselves on the current boards, and it'll be good to convert to a coherent stable implementation of those; others are totally brand new features.


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## Angel Tarragon (Dec 16, 2007)

Thanks for the replies Morrus!


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