# policy change?



## Shadeydm (Jun 27, 2009)

I see that a thread asking for a scan of the map from N1 was locked down as a policy violation. When did this change? I can recall quite clearly several threads where people posted scans of module maps to help out other members here.


One in particular was a review of the Barrow of the Forgotten King the OP has scans blown up to 1"=5' scale for minis and a glowing review from him and his players. This was a great thread which actually insipred me to buy the entire series of adventures and the scans really added a lot to the experience. At the time it was a well read thread that even mods had posted in and took no issue with the map scans.

So what changed and when?


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## jdrakeh (Jun 27, 2009)

Shadeydm said:


> I see that a thread asking for a scan of the map from N1 was locked down as a policy violation. When did this change? I can recall quite clearly several threads where people posted scans of module maps to help out other members here.




I've never seen scans of _commercial_ products posted here. I'm not saying it didn't happen, just that I've never seen it in six years of posting here. 



> One in particular was a review of the Barrow of the Forgotten King the OP has scans blown up to 1"=5' scale for minis and a glowing review from him and his players.




That review doesn't seem to be present in the database any longer, but are you certain that the "scans" weren't enlarged copies of the free map excerpts made available via the WotC site? I ask, because I _have_ seen people distribute or link to enlarged copies of those maps here from time to time.


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## Shadeydm (Jun 27, 2009)

I am quite positive and it was all the maps not just one or two from a preview.


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## Piratecat (Jun 27, 2009)

Really? As far as I remember we've never allowed that. I have no problem if someone sees that thread and wants to email him to discuss it, but as far back as I can recall we've asked people not to request scans of copyrighted information.

If you can remember the product, I'd be interested to look up the thread. Either it flew under our radar or my memory is playing me false.


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## stonegod (Jun 27, 2009)

The PBP fora use some maps, but they are almost always from free online sources (such as the low-res WotC scans and such or small excerpts of PDF stuff in something like the Pathfinder APs); all which I believe is acceptable under fair use. No complete high-res maps of an entire product, though.


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## Piratecat (Jun 27, 2009)

Right, and that's fine, Stonegod. 

To be clear, we don't get particularly fussed about old products. We don't condone pirating them, and we ask that people not request scans, but we're not going to overreact and suspend a member if someone posts to ask for a missing page.

And you know what? Low-rez scans of just the maps probably constitute fair use as well. I'll go mention that in the thread.


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## Shadeydm (Jun 27, 2009)

Well anyways it was great and detailed review which included the maps of the adventure blown up to miniature scale and posts from the players commenting that the adventure wasn't really adversly affected by the linear nature of the adventure.

It was the main reason I bought that adventure as well as the follow up Sinister Spire and the third installment Fortress of the Yuan-ti.

I guess perhaps at the time such things were not strictly enforced if as you say the policy has not changed, too bad. Such things enriched the communuty and certainly helped sell product.


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## Shadeydm (Jun 27, 2009)

I should note that it wasn't in the review section it was under general but it was cetainly review like in nature and having the maps in scale was great!


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## S'mon (Jun 27, 2009)

In the N1 case, my understanding would be that if both requestor and sender had legitimately bought the product, then scanning & sending to the requestor for no charge would usually fall under non-commercial fair use in US law.  Per the MP3.com case you can't do this commercially (say on an advertising-paid-for model, or for a fee), though.


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## S'mon (Jun 27, 2009)

Piratecat said:


> And you know what? Low-rez scans of just the maps probably constitute fair use as well. I'll go mention that in the thread.




Unauthorised reproduction of thumbnail images for linking purposes was held to be commercial fair use in a case whose name I should be able to recall  since I used to teach it...  

Edit: _Kelly _v_ Arriba_ - thanks, google!  
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kelly_v._Arriba_Soft_Corporation

I agree that reproducing maps from a game product, for the purpose of playing it, would seem highly likely to be fair use.  The usual test is whether it interferes with commercial exploitation of the work.


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## jaerdaph (Jun 28, 2009)

So the policy here is still "if you ask for scanned copyrighted material, EN World tells you don't ask for scanned copyrighted material on our boards, then EN World leaves the original request for scanned copyrighted material up anyway, along with the user name and contact info of the person requesting it, so someone else can still send it to them privately"?

I've got no problem with not suspending people, but why does EN World leave the requests up?


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## Piratecat (Jun 28, 2009)

Clearly, to annoy you.   

More specifically, links are immediately erased. Egregious requests ("I was hoping to get scans of WotC's Book of Piracy, can you help? Email me!") get erased. Problematic threads are closed and quickly sink. There's a certain educational factor in closing the threads and letting them sink; it's a reminder to people who see them that we prefer to not have this sort of thread posted. Just deleting them doesn't send this message.


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