# How to tell a friend's girlfriend to get a job or something?



## MadMaxim (Jun 30, 2005)

I don't know if it's the right place to ask this question, but I'd very much like some advice in this matter as it seriously bothers me. Okay, here goes:

A good friend of mine has just moved into an apartment together with his girlfriend. He's 23, she turns 18 in a few weeks. The problem is that he's the only one to pay the bills and she sits around doing nothing all day. She doesn't have any plans about getting an education and she has this little dream of becoming an actress. I've tried to ask my friend to ask her to get a job, since he cannot keep on paying all the bills by himself while maintaining a proper living standard. He doesn't really press her hard enough to get a job, but I seriously think she has to start paying her share of the living expenses and I keep asking her how she's doing with the job search. Her only excuse is that she's in a local musical that's currently being set up. This doesn't strike me as a good enough excuse to not go looking for a job. I currently work in a warehouse and offered her to ask if the company was currently hiring (which it actually is), but she didn't want to work in warehouse. So, what should I do?

I haven't known her that long, but both her and my friend are currently in the gaming group that I run and I really don't want to mess up something with my friend. Strangely enough he has given me permission to ask her to get a job, as if he's afraid of keep asking her himself. He could possibly be afraid of losing her, but if it doesn't take more than that to break up their relationship I don't think it's strong enough. But could any of you give me some advice based on these facts? Thanks in advance.


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## EricNoah (Jun 30, 2005)

I think I would just butt out and let the two of them deal with it.  He'll either learn a painful (but necessaary) lesson, or she'll change, or whatever, but since it doesn't really affect you directly (they don't live with you, right?), it's ultimately not your problem.


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## Abstraction (Jun 30, 2005)

The important information we need to know is: is she essential to the gaming group? Is she hot?


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## Teflon Billy (Jun 30, 2005)

I'd talk to your friend about it.

Maybe he likes having her around for sex, and it's worth it to him to pay the bills.

Maybe he's about to give her the boot out of there.

Maybe all kind of different stuff.

Don't bothr approaching her. Approach him. "Hey man, I think she is taking advantage of you..."


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## Harmon (Jun 30, 2005)

Do yourself a favor- stay out of it.  You will say something that will be misreceived and she will tell him and that will be the end.

Instead help your friend work out his finances- he makes X every month, it costs him Y to live in the apartment he shares.  Suggest he show her that information and say- "baby, I would love to be able to do this on my own, but I can't I need your help."

He should also tell her that a lot of things happen in the world around work, it creates so much social interaction, she can learn about character interaction and become a better actor.  She should- she needs to get into school too.  

Its my view that everyone should earn their own way through life.


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## KenM (Jun 30, 2005)

Easy, go over to his house and play  The Offspring's "why don't you get a job." on the CD player.


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## MadMaxim (Jun 30, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> I think I would just butt out and let the two of them deal with it.  He'll either learn a painful (but necessaary) lesson, or she'll change, or whatever, but since it doesn't really affect you directly (they don't live with you, right?), it's ultimately not your problem.




You're right, Eric, it's really none of my business, but I seriously think she's taking advantage of him and when has it ever been wrong to worry about your friends if you think something is wrong? After all, he gave me permission to ask her on his behalf, so if it doesn't concern me then I don't know what does. And no, they're not living with me.

As for the "essential" stuff, Abstraction...  I don't consider her essential as such. She's only been with the group for the last six months so she's not an integrated part of the group. I wouldn't call her hot more in the terms of cute.

Teflon Billy, I think you hit the mark with the sex part. He's been bragging quite a bit about all the hot sex they've been having, so perhaps that's the reason he doesn't push harder when it comes to her getting a job... I don't think he's about to give her the boot as he's never had a girlfriend before, so he's probably going into this wholeheartedly. I'll try approaching him again...


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## MadMaxim (Jun 30, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Easy, go over to his house and play  The Offspring's "why don't you get a job." on the CD player.



Excellent suggestion, Ken!


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## Ranger REG (Jun 30, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> You're right, Eric, it's really none of my business, but I seriously think she's taking advantage of him and when has it ever been wrong to worry about your friends if you think something is wrong? After all, he gave me permission to ask her on his behalf, so if it doesn't concern me then I don't know what does. And no, they're not living with me.



Did you asked permission to talk to her about getting a job?

Back out of that now. He's gotta learn. The only thing you can do is support him when the relationship fail (and it will most likely fail).


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## Zenodotus of Ephesus (Jun 30, 2005)

Your friend will be less happy when he is only able to brag about the hot sex in the past tense.  Leave well enough alone.


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## MadMaxim (Jun 30, 2005)

Ranger REG said:
			
		

> Did you asked permission to talk to her about getting a job?
> 
> Back out of that now. He's gotta learn. The only thing you can do is support him when the relationship fail (and it will most likely fail).



No, I didn't ask for permission. I just asked him, if he didn't think she should get a job, because he seriously can't keep paying the bills. He has got a couple of loans in the bank, a car to pay insurance on and then there's the apartment and general living expenses. He then gave me permission to ask her about getting a job, so he sort of asked for my advice himself.

But you're right. He has to learn somehow. I just think it sucks for him to learn it the hard way when there are other alternatives. And it's NOT because I want the girl. I'm just a concerned friend, that's all...


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## der_kluge (Jun 30, 2005)

I agree with Eric and TB here. A) it's really none of your business and B) if you do feel so inclined to talk about it, discuss it with your friend. He may be perfectly happy, and wouldn't understand why you weren't equally happy for him.


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## RangerWickett (Jun 30, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Easy, go over to his house and play  The Offspring's "why don't you get a job." on the CD player.




And after that, play "Give Me My Money Back."

Seriously, people never listen to advice from friends when relationships are concerned.  If it'll make you feel better, write him a letter, copy it, and hand him both. After he reads it, have him seal the copy in an envelope and sign and date it. Then, when he complains later, you can pull out the envelope and say, "I told you so."


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## JRRNeiklot (Jun 30, 2005)

Sleep with her.


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## EricNoah (Jun 30, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> I just think it sucks for him to learn it the hard way when there are other alternatives.




It occurs to me that we are trying to do the same thing -- help you avoid learning something "the hard way."   But the difference is you asked for the help/advice.  So maybe just be ready with some good advice for your friend when the time comes.


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## alsih2o (Jun 30, 2005)

Yeppers, be there for him when he lands hard. 

 That is your job as a friend. Sometimes we gotta watch people make what we percieve to be dumb mistakes. 







 Good friends have watched me do it.


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## the Jester (Jun 30, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> But you're right. He has to learn somehow. I just think it sucks for him to learn it the hard way when there are other alternatives.




Unfortunately, no there aren't.  :\  One thing I have learned is that you have to make your own mistakes- you can't learn from someone else's. 

Leave well enough alone or you're likely to end up in a very uncomfortable position and maybe losing a friend or gaming group out of it.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jun 30, 2005)

Stay out of it. I had a great friend and roommate in college who had an awful sucking barnacle of a girlfriend who needed to be pushed under a truck. I brought it up. I no longer have that great friend.

It's his penis, and his problem.

And now I'm off to download "Get a Job" off iTunes ...


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## Angel Tarragon (Jun 30, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> I think I would just butt out and let the two of them deal with it.  He'll either learn a painful (but necessaary) lesson, or she'll change, or whatever, but since it doesn't really affect you directly (they don't live with you, right?), it's ultimately not your problem.



That'd be my advice as well.


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## IronWolf (Jun 30, 2005)

Yep, I would stay out of it.  Some things just need to be learned and like TB says there may be reasons he lets it happen and he considers the trade off worthwhile.  If your friend happens to ask you or lets conversation wander to that area then by all means tell him then.  Otherwise I would probably just let it go and keep out of it.


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## Gnarlo (Jun 30, 2005)

Stay out of the middle of it. Support them, love them both for their flaws, let them make their own mistakes, and be there for them to cry on your shoulder when the split happens. Then you should be in the position to get some hot rebound sex from her. Or him. Whatever floats your boat.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jun 30, 2005)

Considering she's about to turn 18, we may need to see photographs of her in a bikini at that time to make a better diagnosis of the situation.


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## nerfherder (Jun 30, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> He's been bragging quite a bit about all the hot sex they've been having



Sounds like she has a job then...   

Cheers,
Liam


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## Angel Tarragon (Jun 30, 2005)

:\ OYA!


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## MadMaxim (Jun 30, 2005)

Thanks for the advice, people. I appreciate it, even though you strike as a little cynical, but then again I'm probably just a sensitive guy


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## Angel Tarragon (Jun 30, 2005)

Rare is the guy that is sensitive. You and I are in the same boat.


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## Torm (Jun 30, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Easy, go over to his house and play  The Offspring's "why don't you get a job." on the CD player.



This was the very first thing I thought, too! 

And then, he should follow it up with "Everything She Wants" by Wham. :\


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## Nellisir (Jun 30, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice, people. I appreciate it, even though you strike as a little cynical, but then again I'm probably just a sensitive guy




Maybe just a little cynical.

Seriously, it's not your place.  Lets say you go over and tell her to get a job.  What then?  Are you going to kick her out when she doesn't?  If your friend doesn't want to talk to her about this, he's probably not going to want to kick her out.  Being the official "Bad News Guy" is only going to get you hated.  The only reason she might listen to you is because she respects you &/or likes you, and the quickest way to blow that is by butting in and being a nag.

So my advice to you is to stay well out of it.

My advice to him is to cut off the cable, and be -VERY- supportive of her getting a job.  I don't know her employment history, but she might be nervous about looking for work.  She can't have a heck of alot of experience at 17-18.  And no cable will probably go a long way to killing the glamour of the stay-at-home lifestyle, unless she's a reading fanatic.

Barring all that, she should at least commit to doing the housework.  Having one person at home works for some couples, but that doesn't excuse them from all responsibility.

Cheers
Nell.


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## WizarDru (Jun 30, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> Thanks for the advice, people. I appreciate it, even though you strike as a little cynical, but then again I'm probably just a sensitive guy




Heh.  23's cynical is 36's life-as-we-know-it. 

Seriously, some things can only be learned by doing.  It's good that you feel for your friend; some of us have been in the exact same situation: in my case, it was a freeloading guy gamer living with a girl gamer; we liked them both, but he was the worst kind of leech on her and others.  In another case, I had a male gamer friend who basically would do anything for a non-gamer girl...and all that trying to point that out to him did was alienate him to all of his friends.  If you get involved, it could heavily backfire on you, destroying the friendship you were acting in the spirit of.

If he's not able to support the both of them, that problem will resolve itself soon enough.  On the other hand, she doesn't have to be employed to help reduce the household costs - taking care of mundane chores, for example, can be worth a lot.  But if she isn't helping to organize the bills or help with shopping and cooking, for example...well, like I said, the problem will fix itself in due time, one way or another.

Keep in mind that your friend has to decide his own priorities; if he's happy getting sex on a regular basis (and that ain't a bad thing) at the cost of other things...let it be.  

Sometimes the best mark of being a friend is being there to help when after things have gone wrong and to not judge them, even when you think they're making a mistake.


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## BlackSilver (Jun 30, 2005)

Everyone that has said- don't get involved is very right and sounds as though they have had at least one opportunity to do just what you have the chance to do right now.

I think Harmon’s suggestion of getting it all on paper is the best idea. 

Nellisir’s idea of shutting off the cable should follow Harmon’s.  

Show her the amount of money it takes to run the household, then start cutting luxuries.  Cable is first to go, while power and water are the last.

Do yourself a favor Max- stay out of it.  There are so many relationships that have been ruined because someone stepped into the middle of a relationship.  Talk to your friend, try to be friends with them both.  If she says anything about it to you, then speak up, but by all means do not say your friend asked you to talk to her.


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## d20Dwarf (Jun 30, 2005)

Yes, stay out of it. Don't use it as a proxy for your own relationships. You can offer him advice, but that's as far as you should go. By "stepping in" and talking to *his* girlfriend, you're only allowing him to continue acting in the way you don't like. In that way, you're a big part of the problem. If you want him to learn to be a man, you can't keep doing the hard stuff for him.

Also, he's 23, and it sounds like he's content paying her bills as long as the sex is good. Once that dries up, or she freaks out (which she will), then he'll move on.

NOTHING BUT BAD CAN COME FROM YOUR INTERFERENCE.


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## MoogleEmpMog (Jun 30, 2005)

Ye gods, how I'd love to meet a 'cute rather than hot' lass who _wanted_ to stay at home!  

That's worth working two jobs, writing on the side and maybe selling a bit of blood each week, much less moving to a "lower standard of living."

She should, however, do some household chores and the like.  But then, are you _sure_ she actually "sits around doing nothing all day?"  Just because someone isn't working in the capitalsocialistselfishcombine of modern society doesn't mean they're unproductive.

Even if you don't envy the chap as I do, stay well, well away from this situation; nothing you do will improve it, and interfering is likely to lose you at least one gaming compatriot, possibly two and a friend in the process.


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## BourbonFromHeaven (Jun 30, 2005)

Imitate with both vocals and gestures, the sound of a cracking whip, each and everytime he enters the room.


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## diaglo (Jun 30, 2005)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> Good friends have watched me do it.





but did they take pics or make a video

IYKWIMAITYD

diaglo "likes watching" Ooi


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## Tewligan (Jun 30, 2005)

I would suggest minding your own damn business. He's an adult, not a 9-year-old.


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## Aeolius (Jun 30, 2005)

Granted, Denmark is not the USA, where such things would be illegal, but I find the notion of a 23-year old living with a 17-year old to be a tad disturbing. Throw her back, man, she's not done yet! 

   Here in North Carolina, even co-habitation is illegal. It is technically against the law for a man and woman to live together, unless they are married. Granted, they rarely enforce that one.


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## d20Dwarf (Jun 30, 2005)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> Granted, Denmark is not the USA, where such things would be illegal, but I find the notion of a 23-year old living with a 17-year old to be a tad disturbing. Throw her back, man, she's not done yet!
> 
> Here in North Carolina, even co-habitation is illegal. It is technically against the law for a man and woman to live together, unless they are married. Granted, they rarely enforce that one.




Well, that he could even stand to live with a 17-year-old says something about him, but I was trying to avoid going there.


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Easy, go over to his house and play  The Offspring's "why don't you get a job." on the CD player.



 I once helped drive away a buddy's girlfriend (now his ex, obviously) by having that song appear "randomly" on my playlist whenever she was in our dorm room.  HA! Good times!


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## squat45 (Jun 30, 2005)

One funny story... (not me, I was just a witness)

Te top player on the high school basketball team was dating the coach's daughter (who was pretty, but not 'hot') and she really was a controlling witch at times.  Anyways, after a couple of really bad 'episodes' of the controlling witch in a week's span, a few of this guy's buddies who where lifting weights after school (during basketball practice, obviously, they did not play hoops) put a special song on... now, the weight room was in the balcony above the gym so we could all hear it, and it was accepted...

The song...


Got You By The Balls by AC/DC.

That was the last time the radio was played during basketball practice.


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## RustyHalo (Jun 30, 2005)

I've two things to share:

(1) I'd agree with those who advise, "Stay out of their business." You write that he's given you "permission" to intervene, but it seems that he is trying to triangulate you -- i.e., he wants you in the equation so that it'll be two-against-one (you-n-me against her!). That's a recipe for a mess. Just because he's invited you to a trainwreck doesn't mean you actually have to attend!

(2) Am I the only one who's put out by all those replies that, even in jest, speculate about having sex with this young woman?

Sheesh.


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2005)

> (2) Am I the only one who's put out by all those replies that, even in jest, speculate about having sex with this young woman?



Put out though you may be, you can bet your bottom dollar that it (or something VERY NEARLY "it") is happening. This guy is serious enough with a 17 year old young woman that they're LIVING together - clue 1 that something is happening. I have my doubts that they're waiting till her 18th birthday to move past holding hands into heavier territory, but if it helps you sleep at night, believe what you have to. 

EDIT: And it could be much worse. I had a buddy in college (22 or 23 at the time, I believe) that found out the girl he'd almost moved in with (who'd told him at first that she was 21, then 20, then 18)...was only 15!!! He broke it off right away, but even after, he'd hold his head in hands and mutter, "I'm going to get arrested, I'm going to get arrested, jailbait, jailbait..." over and over again.


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## nerfherder (Jun 30, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> (2) Am I the only one who's put out by all those replies that, even in jest, speculate about having sex with this young woman?



Possibly not, but I don't understand why you're put out?  Is it because of her age?  The age of consent is 15 in Denmark where the OP is from and 16 where I'm from, so  it doesn't seem odd to me.  Or did you mean something else.

Cheers,
Liam


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## WizarDru (Jun 30, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> (2) Am I the only one who's put out by all those replies that, even in jest, speculate about having sex with this young woman?
> 
> Sheesh.




I was at College before I was 18...and I assure you I wouldn't have hesitated to have slept with a 23 year-old grad student if such an opportunity presented itself.  While it's certainly not legal for a few months, I think it's a tad naive to assume that young men and women don't have sex until they're legally allowed to do so, any more than it should suprise anyone that some teens find access to alcohol and other substances far sooner than the law allows.  There's a reason that sex education classes are taught in high school....that was true 20 years ago, and it's true today.

If their genders were reversed, would you have a different opinion of the matter? 

Really, my main concern as a parent would be that a 17 year-old is living outside the house with a 23 year-old. 

nerfherder, in the United States, the age of consent is 18.  Under that age, I believe it's considered statutory rape, regardless of the nature of the sexual contact (i.e. regardless of whether it's consensual, her parents could press charges if they had proof).  However, I'm not a lawyer, so I don't know if that's determined at the state-level or federal level.


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I was at College before I was 18...and I assure you I wouldn't have hesitated to have slept with a 23 year-old grad student if such an opportunity presented itself.  While it's certainly not legal for a few months, I think it's a tad naive to assume that young men and women don't have sex until they're legally allowed to do so, any more than it should suprise anyone that some teens find access to alcohol and other substances far sooner than the law allows.  There's a reason that sex education classes are taught in high school....that was true 20 years ago, and it's true today.
> 
> If their genders were reversed, would you have a different opinion of the matter?
> 
> ...



 The age of consent is state-based, not federal.


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## IcyCool (Jun 30, 2005)

Yeah, I know this girl.  Well, if she gets bored of him and starts chain-dating all of his friends, then I definitely know this girl.

Cute but not hot.

Most definitely psycho.

At any rate, stay out of it.  There's an important, and bitter, lesson he'll need to learn.

That or they are madly in love and things will work out ok.





  Bwahahahaha!!!!!  Damn, couldn't keep a straight face on that one.


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## IcyCool (Jun 30, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The age of consent is state-based, not federal.




Yep.

I'm pretty certain it's 16 here in Montana.


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2005)

And it's 16 in South Dakota, though I know there are statutes that could still get him in trouble because (though the age is 16) there are still funky laws about *how far apart in age* they can be until both are 18 or over. 

Fortunately, it's never been a concern of mine.


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## WizarDru (Jun 30, 2005)

Well, like I said, IANAL. 

Hell, I'm probably dating myself by mentioning that I remember when the U.S. drinking age was different from one state to another....my brother loved going to NY from NJ, since he was allowed to drink beer there, when I was a kid.


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## reveal (Jun 30, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The age of consent is state-based, not federal.




It's 16 in Alaska.

And it's not _quite_ all state based. When I was in the Air Force, we could not date anyone under 18, even if the state said otherwise. That's a federal law that trumps state law but, for the most part, you're exactly right.

Not that I can talk, I started dating my wife when I was in the Air Force at 19 and she was 17.


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## reveal (Jun 30, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Well, like I said, IANAL.




UWHAT?!


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## Hijinks (Jun 30, 2005)

> Thanks for the advice, people. I appreciate it, even though you strike as a little cynical, but then again I'm probably just a sensitive guy




I don't think you've gotten cynical advice here; I think you've gotten realistic advice.


From a female point of view, I wholeheartedly agree:  Make your opinion known to your friend, and then don't say anything else about it.  No one likes a friend who's constantly harping on you about your life; that's what your parents are for.

I've dated real schlumps before and my parents were always like "Oh we like him!  He's great!" and then would say "I never liked him!" the instant we broke up.  Now that's love   I tend to be honest with my friends, but only if I know that they want to hear the truth.  If a friend says "Oh, isn't he the greatest?" with a dreamy look in her eyes, I'll agree, even if I think he's a jerk.  If she's like "Should I marry him?  I don't know..."  then I will offer my honest opinion.

If I think a friend is truly ruining her life with someone, I will definitely say something, but ONLY ONCE.  Anything other than that is nagging, and it gets old really fast.  I wouldn't want a friend nagging me about my life every time I see that person.  Would you want that?


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## The_Universe (Jun 30, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> It's 16 in Alaska.
> 
> And it's not _quite_ all state based. When I was in the Air Force, we could not date anyone under 18, even if the state said otherwise. That's a federal law that trumps state law but, for the most part, you're exactly right.
> 
> Not that I can talk, I started dating my wife when I was in the Air Force at 19 and she was 17.



 SCANDAL!


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## Einan (Jun 30, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> I don't think you've gotten cynical advice here; I think you've gotten realistic advice.
> 
> 
> From a female point of view, I wholeheartedly agree: Make your opinion known to your friend, and then don't say anything else about it. No one likes a friend who's constantly harping on you about your life; that's what your parents are for.
> ...




Agreed.  Say your piece, then shut up.  Never mention it again, especially after the gal in question dumps him for someone with more cash. Just buy the first couple rounds and tell him there's plenty of fish in the sea, and if he starts grinning about the fish, knock him out and leave him in an aquarium; he's a sick, sick man.

Einan


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## Torm (Jun 30, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> UWHAT?!



Assuming you weren't kidding:

I = I
A = Am
N = Not
A = A
L = Lawyer


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## d20Dwarf (Jun 30, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Well, like I said, IANAL.
> 
> Hell, I'm probably dating myself by mentioning that I remember when the U.S. drinking age was different from one state to another....my brother loved going to NY from NJ, since he was allowed to drink beer there, when I was a kid.




Well, I think the drinking age is still a state law, it's just that the federal now says "sure, you can make it 18, but then we won't give you the 500 million in road subsidies...states rights, woohoo!"


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## reveal (Jun 30, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Assuming you weren't kidding:
> 
> I = I
> A = Am
> ...




Thanks! 

I really didn't know what the acronym stood for but, um, I got a weird brain....


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## d20Dwarf (Jun 30, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> I wouldn't want a friend nagging me about my life every time I see that person.  Would you want that?




Good lord, this sounds like my life.  :\


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## Nellisir (Jun 30, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> The age of consent is state-based, not federal.




And it's 16 in New Hampshire as well.

I really can't point any fingers, though -- I dated a 17-year old when I was 23, and we did live together, though not until after she turned 18.

Cheers
Nell.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 30, 2005)

Having just watched a friend end up on the crap-end of a relationship with a truly horrid woman, my advice is stay out of it.  Not a single one of his friends liked this woman, and she went out of her way to make herself as unlikeable as possible, then would tell him how horrible we all treated her.  She was a prescription drug addict, an alchoholic, and had been separated from her husband for over 10 years but wouldn't divorce him.  He then found out she'd been using him to advance in the company the both worked for, and was trying to sleep with their district manager (an old frat brother of my friend).  

At first, we all tried to tell him about all the red flags we saw in her, but it just made him angry and he shut us out.  He told us how we were jealous of what a great relationship he had and how much they were in love.  We, as a group, decided to just let it go.  It would come crashing down.  And it did.  He thanked me for not saying "I told you so", even though he knew I wanted to.  He said the more people tried to convince him how awful she was, the more he was convinced to prove us wrong.

And speaking from a personal perspective, I was once in a relationship like this many years ago, and I did the exact same thing.  Which is why I didn't really get as involved as some of our other friends.  I knew it would just make things worse.


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## RustyHalo (Jun 30, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> (2) Am I the only one who's put out by all those replies that, even in jest, speculate about having sex with this young woman?
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## devilbat (Jul 1, 2005)

Dude, you want to stay out of this if you want to keep that friend.  All too many times I have seen friends try to "help" friends with girl problems.  Most of the time, guy with girlfriend, will end up getting rid of friends who get in the way of his action.  I'm sure you feel like you need to rescue your pal.  You've done what a  friend does.  You've mentioned it to him, probably ad nauseum, and you've hinted to her about getting a job.  Now butt out.  Let hime either grow a backbone or learn an expensive lesson.  It's his life, let him live it.  If she catches on to what you are getting at, you will end up losing one friend and two players.


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## devilbat (Jul 1, 2005)

> examples: #3 -- "is she hot?"; #14 -- "sleep with her"; #21 -- "hot rebound sex..."; #22 -- "photographs of her in a bikini"
> 
> Sigh. It seems juvenile.




Are we not men?  I've always though "men" and "juvenile" go hand in hand.


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## nerfherder (Jul 1, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> RustyHalo said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Juvenile?  Maybe?  Personally, I saw it as harmless banter.  I think several people have given good, considered advice to the original poster, so a few light-hearted comments do no harm.

Cheers,
Liam


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## MadMaxim (Jul 1, 2005)

Okay, okay, I get the point. I'll butt out of their business, but then I start to wonder how the heck I'm supposed to do any kind of damage control when the crap hits the fan? And Hijinks, I know it's realistic advice I'm getting. I wouldn't consider it to be anything else.

As for me using his relationship as a proxy of some sort, I only have this to say: I've been in one relationship for three months and that's it. I just turned 24 and I may not be an expert on relationships, but when a woman is dominating a friend of mine like that, I have to get a few things off my chest if you don't mind...?


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## MadMaxim (Jul 1, 2005)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> I would suggest minding your own damn business. He's an adult, not a 9-year-old.



And would you please use some friendlier phrases, Tewligan? I didn't ask this question to get slapped around...


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## Einan (Jul 1, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> Okay, okay, I get the point. I'll butt out of their business, but then I start to wonder how the heck I'm supposed to do any kind of damage control when the crap hits the fan? And Hijinks, I know it's realistic advice I'm getting. I wouldn't consider it to be anything else.
> 
> As for me using his relationship as a proxy of some sort, I only have this to say: I've been in one relationship for three months and that's it. I just turned 24 and I may not be an expert on relationships, but when a woman is dominating a friend of mine like that, I have to get a few things off my chest if you don't mind...?




Dude, there's not a darn thing you can do for damage control save get him drunk and let him vent.  Slap him on the back a few times and tell him it'll work out okay and encourage him to pursue another woman.  Nothing much else can cure getting your heart ripped out.

Course, I got my heart ripped out, and the next girl I dated turned into my wife.  Been together five years now and am still deliriously happy.  There's hope out there for us lonely geeks.  

Einan


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## Tanager (Jul 1, 2005)

Einan said:
			
		

> Dude, there's not a darn thing you can do for damage control save get him drunk and let him vent.  Slap him on the back a few times and tell him it'll work out okay and encourage him to pursue another woman.  Nothing much else can cure getting your heart ripped out.




Had my heart ripped out several times, and seen my friends hearst ripped out here and there too. Hell. I saw my best friend get his heart ripped out by my ex, Einan's quote is good advice.

There's really not much you can do here, except be ready for your bud when he needs you. If you feel you *really* have to, tell your friend that you're worried that she's using him, and then leave it at that, otherwise, don't get involved. When/if it falls apart, don't say "I told you so", by him a drink or twelve and be supportive.

Tanager "been there, done that" Ooi


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## the Jester (Jul 1, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> Okay, okay, I get the point. I'll butt out of their business, but then I start to wonder how the heck I'm supposed to do any kind of damage control when the crap hits the fan?




I know you're just trying to be a friend, but why do you think you're responsible for damage control?

The best thing you can do is be there for him when he needs a friend.  Let go of your need to save him- he must save himself if anyone can.  Be there if he needs someone to get drunk with, someone to cry on, someone to bitch to.  But let _him_ deal with his life.


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## Harmon (Jul 1, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> Okay, okay, I get the point. I'll butt out of their business, but then I start to wonder how the heck I'm supposed to do any kind of damage control when the crap hits the fan?




Be supportive, be a friend, be patient, and be understanding.  Do not say "I told you so."

If your friend's relationship is gonna make it then it will make it on its own.

Let life happen, don't force it.  Learn from other's wisdom.  The only person that you can change is yourself.

Its okay to let things be.


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## Xath (Jul 1, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Are we not men?  I've always though "men" and "juvenile" go hand in hand.




I am not men.  But I will agree with the above statement.


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## Xath (Jul 1, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> I've dated real schlumps before and my parents were always like "Oh we like him!  He's great!" and then would say "I never liked him!" the instant we broke up.  Now that's love





My Gran does the same thing.


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## The_Universe (Jul 1, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> Well, I think the drinking age is still a state law, it's just that the federal now says "sure, you can make it 18, but then we won't give you the 500 million in road subsidies...states rights, woohoo!"



 That's precisely correct.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Jul 1, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> Sigh. It seems juvenile.



Sorry for having a sense of humor.

If the only thing this girl apparently brings to the table is that she's all about the hot sex, you'll have to pardon the haloless if they pause at work to consider the hot sexing.


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## Rel (Jul 1, 2005)

"Negotiations and love songs are often mistaken for one and the same." - Paul Simon

"What does that mean?" you might ask.  It means that people get in (and stay in) relationships just like they do everything else:  FOR A REASON.  It might take a while to hammer out all the details but sooner or later folks decide to stay in a relationship because they like what it has to offer and are willing to live with the extra baggage it comes with.  If they can't reconcile that balance sheet then bye, bye, Baby.

It may not sound romantic but there it is.

So:

1) Keep your mouth shut.  He already knows how you feel.
2) When the whole thing goes south, you are allowed to say (once), "I told you so."  Then...
3) Buy him a stiff drink.


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## Rel (Jul 1, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> Sigh. It seems juvenile.




I don't think your Halo seems so Rusty.


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## MadMaxim (Jul 1, 2005)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Sorry for having a sense of humor.
> 
> If the only thing this girl apparently brings to the table is that she's all about the hot sex, you'll have to pardon the haloless if they pause at work to consider the hot sexing.



I don't mind the humor, Whizbang. Some of these posts actually made me smile 

And she does bring other than sex to the table. She cooks once in a while, clean up and do the laundry, but I don't see that as being anything near a full-time job. The apartment isn't very big, it's two rooms, a kitchen and a bathroom, so it's not like it's a house.

Okay, perhaps damage control was a bit too strong a word, but of course I'll be there to drink with him if the relationship fails. Isn't it a little weird how many of you suggest drinking your brains out? Well, alcohol IS one heck of a problem solver


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## MadMaxim (Jul 1, 2005)

nerfherder said:
			
		

> Possibly not, but I don't understand why you're put out?  Is it because of her age?  The age of consent is 15 in Denmark where the OP is from and 16 where I'm from, so  it doesn't seem odd to me.  Or did you mean something else.



You're right about the age of consent, nerfherder. We may not be able to drive a car before we turn 18, but we can drink alcohol and have sex like crazy as soon as we turn 15!


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## WizarDru (Jul 1, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> That's precisely correct.



I probably should have been more concise on that one: the bill that passed isn't really a law, it's an end-run around state's rights that effectively srtong-armed the states into all falling into line. The states all determine their own drinking age, but if they don't meet the federal guideline, they don't get highway funds.  I knew it as such, I was just being expedient.

Consent laws, on the other hand...I'm afraid I never was in a situation where I was lucky enough to violate them, so it never came up.


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## reveal (Jul 1, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Consent laws, on the other hand...I'm afraid I never was in a situation where I was lucky enough to violate them, so it never came up.




On the day my girlfriend/future wife turned 18, a cop knocked on my dorm room door. He pointed her and said "17, right?" I said "No, 18" and showed him her drivers license. He looked at it and said "Barely." I said "Hey, 18's 18." He said "You're right. Good night," smiled and left.

My GF and I just cracked up. I found out years later that my roommate, who eventually was the best man at my wedding, called them as a joke.


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## Rel (Jul 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> "Hey, 18's 18."




I always get "the look" from my wife when I use that sentence with regard to Lindsay Lohan and such.


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## The_Universe (Jul 1, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> so it never came up.



 HA! HA! Double entendre!


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## reveal (Jul 1, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I always get "the look" from my wife when I use that sentence with regard to Lindsay Lohan and such.




There's a fine line between 20 year old kid and dirty old man.


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## reveal (Jul 1, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> HA! HA! Double entendre!




I don't get it.


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## Rel (Jul 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I don't get it.




HA HA!  MORE double entendre!



			
				reveal said:
			
		

> There's a fine line between 20 year old kid and dirty old man.




Well, I figure it this way:  If my wife says, "You're old enough to be her father!" then I can justifiably respond, "Only if someone had sex with me when I was a minor."  So, on that basis I think I can stay free of "dirty old manhood" for another couple years.

In practice what happens when I say that is my wife says, "_I_ had sex with you when you were a minor."  Then I point at her and yell "Child Molestor!" and run out of the room.  Then she rolls her eyes at me and thus our marriage rolls happily along.


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## reveal (Jul 1, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> Well, I figure it this way:  If my wife says, "You're old enough to be her father!" then I can justifiably respond, "Only if someone had sex with me when I was a minor."  So, on that basis I think I can stay free of "dirty old manhood" for another couple years.
> 
> In practice what happens when I say that is my wife says, "_I_ had sex with you when you were a minor."  Then I point at her and yell "Child Molestor!" and run out of the room.  Then she rolls her eyes at me and thus our marriage rolls happily along.




I actually prefer the term dirty old man. I even have it on all my business cards.


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## diaglo (Jul 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I actually prefer the term dirty old man. I even have it on all my business cards.



Ha Ha Double Entendre


diaglo " wiping "it" off blue dresses for years" Ooi of Legacy.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> "Hey, 18's 18."




I used to manage a video store.  In that store's kids' section, we had several Olsen Twins movies.  For the sake of Eric's Grandma, I won't tell you what one of the staff caught another member of the staff doing in the restroom with several of the cover boxes lined up along the wall.

ew.

I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.


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## reveal (Jul 1, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> I used to manage a video store.  In that store's kids' section, we had several Olsen Twins movies.  For the sake of Eric's Grandma, I won't tell you what one of the staff caught another member of the staff doing in the restroom with several of the cover boxes lined up along the wall.
> 
> ew.
> 
> I now return you to your regularly scheduled thread.




I don't get it.


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## Rel (Jul 1, 2005)

Bah!  The Olsen twins are too skinny for my tastes anyway.

I might consider Jessica Simpson and her sister as long as the older one didn't talk and the younger one didn't sing.  Or talk.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I don't get it.




Umm...seriously?


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## reveal (Jul 1, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Umm...seriously?




Seriously. Can you explain things in more detail?


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jul 1, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Seriously. Can you explain things in more detail?




And get my shiny new CS account revoked by the all powerful Eric's Grandma?  NO WAY!


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## WizarDru (Jul 1, 2005)

The_Universe said:
			
		

> HA! HA! Double entendre!




ZING!

Thank you, I'll be here all week.  Please, tip your waitresses.


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## Tetsubo (Jul 1, 2005)

I had several friends tell me, "Do not marry this woman." I did not listen. Four years later I was divorced. Some things you have to learn the hard way...

Now I am happily married to a wonderful, sane woman...


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## Hellefire (Jul 1, 2005)

Tetsubo said:
			
		

> Now I am happily married to a wonderful, sane woman...




You married your imagination??? And you should get a nobel prize for that imagination! And someone in another thread said that every idea had been thought. Then there you go putting words sane and woman together in the same sentence. Sheeeesh.


Skipped a page of posts cuz I'm at work so maybe this has already been resolved, but, what *I* think is...

He's got to make his own mistakes to learn from them.
Then again, maybe you have to learn about the mistake of getting involved for yourself instead of taking these fine people's advice.

Oh, and definitely see if the sex is worth it. Who knows, maybe she is that good?

Aaron


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## Hijinks (Jul 1, 2005)

> I just turned 24 and I may not be an expert on relationships, but when a woman is dominating a friend of mine like that, I have to get a few things off my chest if you don't mind...?





There's nothing wrong with venting on a message board, I do it all the time.  But if all you need to do is vent and you don't want anyone to offer advice, maybe get a blog?  That's what I do when I want to vent about stuff and don't want anyone to respond.  If you post on a message board, you're going to get responses.

I think you're a very caring friend and I would caution you to protect yourself from being hurt by this woman also.  If she realizes you've been trying to break them up (or at the very least, get her to get a job), she may make something up to make you look bad to her boyfriend ("He tried to kiss me/grope me/etc!") and, if he's truly smitten as he seems to be, you will lose him.  That's one reason I, personally, think you might want to back off a bit and just be there to support him when she dumps him because he can't financially support her any more.


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## MadMaxim (Jul 1, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> There's nothing wrong with venting on a message board, I do it all the time.  But if all you need to do is vent and you don't want anyone to offer advice, maybe get a blog?  That's what I do when I want to vent about stuff and don't want anyone to respond.  If you post on a message board, you're going to get responses.
> 
> I think you're a very caring friend and I would caution you to protect yourself from being hurt by this woman also.  If she realizes you've been trying to break them up (or at the very least, get her to get a job), she may make something up to make you look bad to her boyfriend ("He tried to kiss me/grope me/etc!") and, if he's truly smitten as he seems to be, you will lose him.  That's one reason I, personally, think you might want to back off a bit and just be there to support him when she dumps him because he can't financially support her any more.



You're right, Hijinks. But I sought advice and I got it, and for that I'm thankful. I think I should have stated that it was part rant, part question. My bad... I apologize...


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## Nellisir (Jul 1, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I always get "the look" from my wife when I use that sentence ["18's 18"] with regard to Lindsay Lohan and such.




Really?  My wife smirks and says "good luck".

:\ 
Nell.


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## Rel (Jul 1, 2005)

Nellisir said:
			
		

> Really?  My wife smirks and says "good luck".
> 
> :\
> Nell.




Maybe my wife thinks I've got a real shot at hittin' that.


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## bondetamp (Jul 3, 2005)

Could this article be a start?


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## D_Sinclair (Jul 3, 2005)

I have one bit of advice. DO NOT lend the friend in question any money.

He's digging himself a nasty financial hole by insisting his girlfriend gets a job, and once his credit is damaged enough by too many bank loans, he will start turning to his friends for the money to make ends meet. He'll always be borrowing small amounts, but he'll be regularly asking, using money from one friend to pay off another, etc.

Learn to say no right now, and when he does start borrowing from friends, talk to the rest of your shared friends about cutting him off as well. This will accelerate the financial downfall and put an end to the problem much faster, one way or another. He'll either force her to get a job, dump her, or they'll both end up moving back home with their respective parents.

You could also suggest to her "waitressing is a time-honored tradition among actresses".


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## Goblyn (Jul 4, 2005)

RustyHalo said:
			
		

> I'
> (2) Am I the only one who's put out by all those replies that, even in jest, speculate about having sex with this young woman?




Yes you are.

I don't really have anything new to add, just confirmations:

1) For the love of god, stay out of it.

2) Whizbang Dustyboots is right. We'll need those pictures. For research purposes.


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## Goblyn (Jul 4, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Assuming you weren't kidding:
> 
> I = I
> A = Am
> ...




Thank you so much, TORM. I've never been able to figure that one out.

...

I'm not being sarcastic. Really. Thanks.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 4, 2005)

MadMaxim said:
			
		

> But could any of you give me some advice based on these facts? Thanks in advance.




Yeah, avoid this one, it’s not your "fight" and it’s not your relationship...  This could very much get ugly.


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## MadMaxim (Jul 6, 2005)

Goblyn said:
			
		

> Yes you are.
> 
> I don't really have anything new to add, just confirmations:
> 
> ...



Sorry, Goblyn, I don't have any pictures of her and certainly not in a bikini... But you do have a good point there


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> And it's not _quite_ all state based. When I was in the Air Force, we could not date anyone under 18, even if the state said otherwise. That's a federal law that trumps state law but, for the most part, you're exactly right.




That isn't a Federal Law.  That’s the UCMJ. (Uniformed Code of Military Justice.)  (It's article 920 and I do believe its 16 years of age... )


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## reveal (Jul 6, 2005)

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> That isn't a Federal Law.  That’s the UCMJ. (Uniformed Code of Military Justice.)  (It's article 920 and I do believe its 16 years of age... )




Well I'll be damned. After all these years you'd think I would've looked that up.


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## I'm A Banana (Jul 6, 2005)

> I think I would just butt out and let the two of them deal with it




Truth in the first post.

Do that thing that EN said.


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## Brother Shatterstone (Jul 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Well I'll be damned. After all these years you'd think I would've looked that up.



As eccentric as the UCMJ is I’m rather surprised you didn’t remember…


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## Morpheus (Jul 7, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Are we not men?




No, we are _Devo!_ 




I guess I have been waitung my whole life for the time when that would be appropriate to use. Just another perk for being on ENWorld...


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