# Battletech



## Jemal (Nov 18, 2003)

You know what I haven't seen on here?

Battletech.

No, I'm not talking about all that variant stuff like that Dungeon magazine's attempt at Mechs, I'm talking good, old-fashioned, honest-to-god battletech.  Now, I know that technically it's a wargame, and as such not exactly receptive of the PbP format, but just look at D20 Modern and d&D combat, it's much the same... You have to figure out distance, terrain, and other variables... so why not do the same with BTech?

PLUS there's the fact that I'ld be more inclined to go with a more Role-playery version of BTech than simply "battle 1 over, begin battle 2".  I'ld be expecting comradery, competition, diplomacy, etc in addition to the obvious battles.

I've mostly played IRL with the 'citytech' rules, but have come to realize that most of the pages I've seen on the net use either the exact same, or very similar rules systems, so it shouldn't be too hard to get everyone on the same page.

What I'm proposing is the following: The year is 3050, the clans are begining their invasions on the Inner sphere after a few minor setbacks.  You are young Clan mechwarriors (or Elementals)  On the way up, ready to lead the assault to reunify the inner sphere and restore the Star League.  

I'll provide more details after I find out if there's interest in a role Play of the Clan invasion of the inner sphere.

So would anybody be interested in trying out a game of Battletech?  (For those who're wondering about the rules, it's actually fairly simple, and I found a site recently that has a quick-start rules guide PDF, once I find it again I'll post the address, and I can provide answers to any questsions.)


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## Douane (Nov 18, 2003)

Looks at the 2m of shelf place his BT gaming materials take, considers his monthly Mechwarrior campaign running now for eleven years and comes to the conclusion: Nah, no interest at all! 

Seriously, I would be really interested and should have no problem with the rules. 


Folkert


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Nov 18, 2003)

Oooooooh, mecha....I'm ALWAYS up for a good game with any kind of mechs. 

Been a long time since I did anything with Battletech, so I'd need a bit more briefing on background/etc, but I definatly am interested.


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## garyh (Nov 19, 2003)

I used to play in a cool MechWarrior campaign in college (I ran a scion of House Marik who was hiding his part to make it on his own).  I might be interested, but have none of the books.


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## doghead (Nov 19, 2003)

> I'ld be expecting comradery, competition, diplomacy, etc in addition to the obvious battles.




Sounds perfect.  I haven't played the RPG but spent a *few* hours with the computer game. I never did complete the quest, I spent most of my time building my fortune and recruiting the best pilots in known space. I really shouldn't cos I'm a little stretched as it is (all of my games have gone "hot", yeah!). But I'd love to get back into a Locust again.

Humm. Put me down as a backup?


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## neoweasel (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow.  I haven't played a game of BattleTech in *coughcoughadecadecough*  If I could hunt down all my old books (either an hour away at my sister's or nine hours away at my parents') I'd definately be interested.


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## tenkar (Nov 19, 2003)

Ah heck, I jumped on this game when it was still called Battledroids and the droids were glossy paper... tempting... oh so tempting... must not overheat


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

Wow, looks like I've actually got interest!  OK, anyways, here's a couple helpful websites: 

http://www.classicbattletech.com - Has a Quickstart guide, but there's stuff missing from it (Like Criticals, but none of you have to worry about that, I'll be taking care of it).  It's got all the basics, but if anyone knows where I can find a better online guide for people who don't have, Pls link it.  

http://members.aol.com/fnoor/bos.html -  The Battletech Online Sourcebook, has MechWorks on it, which Is what we'll be making the Mechs with.

Also I'm going to be posting some of the charts I think will be useful to you guys, but for the most part the only person who'll need to worry about most of the charts is me.

NOW, I'm going to be running it as 3050 technology and you guys will be playing the part of a Sibkho of Trueborn warriors of the Wolf Clan.  All but one of you will start at Mechwarrior rank, which is lowest on the Clan rank ladder for Mechpilots, and have a single Mech to themselves.  All of you will vote on one player to be your groups commander, and he/she will have a rank of StarCommander.

I'll have 5 PCs acting as 1 star of Mechs.  If we wind up having more than 5 people actually playing, There will be 5 MechWarriors, and the rest can be Elementals/Infantry, or they can suggest/request something else.

Your Star can total up to 300 Tonnes, with 1 mech of 70-80 Tonnes being the largest, and none less than 30 tonnes.  

I'ld like a bio from each of you on your character.. all of you should be between the ages of 18 and 21.  Name, Personality, Appearance, and a brief history are all you need for the bio.  None of you are blooded warriors, so you all have the same last name: Wolf.
I'ld also like to know right away who is going to be playing for sure..

So far I've got Douanne and Anhk as for sure; GaryH, Neoweasel, and Tenkar as maybes, and Doghead as a back-up.


BTW, If there's anything that's not clear, pls ask.


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## Douane (Nov 19, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> NOW, I'm going to be running it as 3050 technology and you guys will be playing the part of a Sibkho of Trueborn warriors of the Wolf Clan.  *All but one of you will start at Mechwarrior rank*, which is lowest on the Clan rank ladder for Mechpilots, and have a single Mech to themselves.  All of you will vote on one player to be your groups commander, and he/she will have a rank of StarCommander.




NEG! 

As one born into the Warrior caste of Kerensky's own clan I demand a Trial of Refusal. Faithful to our Remembrance I challenge the decision to deny me a proper Trial of Position to determine my rank within Clan Wolf's touman. 



[]


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 19, 2003)

n/m


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 19, 2003)

Hehe, oops.


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 19, 2003)

BATTLETECH!! *drools profusely on keyboard*

Never played the actual table-top game but have seen great many hours of action in the MechWarrior series on computer.

Not too familiar with the Clan way of doing things though, so I'll probably need to have terms like what Douane said explained to me. 

Already have a Vulture in mind, if I manage to get a spot as a pilot...


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> NEG!
> 
> As one born into the Warrior caste of Kerensky's own clan I demand a Trial of Refusal. Faithful to our Remembrance I challenge the decision to deny me a proper Trial of Position to determine my rank within Clan Wolf's touman.
> 
> []




I would imagine there are others among you who feel the same, Quiaff?  The decision was not to deny a Trial of Position, but to see if you were yet ready for the Trial.  By showing that you can stand against those above you when you believe they are wrong, you have proven your worth.  You'll find we'll be doing things slightly different now, The Inner Sphere is a hostile and strange place, we do not even expect the Inner Sphere warriors to follow Zellbrigen, though WE will still uphold it.  Be open to change, however.. we will have to adapt our traditions slightly.

You shall get your trials of position, as worthy warriors.


  Nice going, Douane.  You'll make a fine Ristar, If your sibko does well, you may all even end up in The Rememberance.


BTW - for anyone who didn't understand half of what we said, here's a glossary of clan terms:
http://www.geocities.com/strassereich/glossary.htm

It doesn't have them in there so I'll throw these two in: Aff is affirmative/yes, Neg is Negative/no.  (Quiaff/Quineg, as you'll see in the glossary, are slightly different).

Also, there's a great guide to the clans (History overview, etc) on the Classicbattletech URL in my last post.


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## garyh (Nov 19, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> I'ld also like to know right away who is going to be playing for sure..
> 
> So far I've got Douanne and Anhk as for sure; GaryH, Neoweasel, and Tenkar as maybes, and Doghead as a back-up.




Just one question...  would I be able to have a Hatchetman?  I _loooooooooove _ Hatchetmen.


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2003)

This is a great idea for a game, I am a touch full up at the moment, or I would love to jump at the chance.  Actually, I play Mechwarrior online quite a bit, and it is the side of the clans that I always feel drawn to, maybe it is just because of the complete lack of skill by the Inner Sphere Warriors.  Tonight over the course of 3 hours, my trinary met and utterly destroyed twice our number of House Kurita's finest, including a reinforced Assault Lance, destroying thirty mechs while losing only a single Shadowcat.  My technicians have even begun the repair and conversion of 7 of the destroyed barbarian mechs so that our solhama  warriors will have something to pilot as they move into their old age.

There is simply no comparision between the abilities  of our own pilots and those of the Successoor Barbarians.  The clans will carry out General Kerensky's dreams, and reshape the innersphere.  That is the responsibility laid on every sibko that is brought forth from the iron wombs, to live up to the ideals of the Great Father.  

Actually, there are quite a few online leagues for Mechwarrior 4: Mercs that incorporate a great deal of roleplay as they are as pure to BT as they can be, although skill does help, as that story above with my unit killing 30 mechs while suffering only the loss of a single Shadow Cat is true, the battle having occured less then 3 hours ago.


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

Hatchetman.. 
Ah yes, the Hatchetman
Or was it the 3050 version you prefered?

Well, if your sibkin and you decide you'll pilot a 45 Ton mech, go ahead.

EDIT: Was Wrong link, fixed now.


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## garyh (Nov 19, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Hatchetman..
> Ah yes, the Hatchetman
> Or was it the 3050 version you prefered?
> 
> ...




I _think_ it was 3025, but I'm not positive.  If I can pilot a Hatchetman, I'll be moving from "maybe" to "my god, yes."   

As for the Clan info, I remember some of it, though - as I mentioned - I played a House Marik PC.  I sort of remember Kerensky, sibko's and some of Clan social structure.


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

BTW, found the Weapons Chart I was going to link you guys too.

http://www.geocities.com/evermore_campaign/BTM_Weapon_Chart.xls

We'll be using, of course, the CLAN weapons+Equipment.  And once you've made the Bios and are ready for your Trials of Position, you'll be able to design your own mech using MechWorks.


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

garyh said:
			
		

> I _think_ it was 3025, but I'm not positive.  If I can pilot a Hatchetman, I'll be moving from "maybe" to "my god, yes."
> 
> As for the Clan info, I remember some of it, though - as I mentioned - I played a House Marik PC.  I sort of remember Kerensky, sibko's and some of Clan social structure.





Actually I just remembered something that would make it ufeasable for you to pilot a Hatchetman...
The clans believe using Physical attacks in a Mech to be Dishonourable...
srry.


On a related note, I just finished watching a 1990 movie called Robot Jox(The credits are rolling as I write this)
It's kinda a B-grade movie, but I find it rather Battletech, right down to the end, and more akin to the clans than the inner sphere..

They fight one on one to settle disputes over territories, the pilots are either bred from Genetics to pilot(Trueborn anyone?), or more rarely, have a natural skill (Freebirth).  They're celebrities and even argue amongst each other to see who gets to battle in the next fight.. And they're usually honourable.  The warrior Trainees even go through Trials to see who gets to advance and be a pilot.

It's actually a fairly interesting movie.


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2003)

Actually, Jemal, I am gonna beg to get in on this, I have given it some thought, and while all of the online play I do is great to solve my agressiveness, it does nothing to sate my urges towards playing out a clan character, although I do have a clan character history, etc, dealing with roleplay on a clan wide level is too impersonal for my tastes, especially because I cannot give into my urges and go about absorbing weaker clans willy-nilly.

If you are willing to have me, then I will lead *MY* star from the cockpit of my Hellbringer Prime, it is a Command Mech without peer among the tonnage range you specified,  both for its Electronic Counter Measure suite, and for its Active Probe, providing accurate information to the one that most requires it.


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## garyh (Nov 19, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Actually I just remembered something that would make it ufeasable for you to pilot a Hatchetman...
> The clans believe using Physical attacks in a Mech to be Dishonourable...
> srry.




Darn!      I think I'm going to bow out, then.  I just loves me a Hatchetman, and if I can't pilot one, I'll pass in favor of someone else, as there seems to be plenty of interest.

Good gaming, everyone!


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Actually I just remembered something that would make it ufeasable for you to pilot a Hatchetman...
> The clans believe using Physical attacks in a Mech to be Dishonourable...
> srry.



On a related note, the clans do not have any Hatchetman Battle-mechs.  Not only is its primary weapon against the clan rules of engagement, Zell-bringen, it was also designed and built in 3023, a few hundred years after the Exodus of the Star-League Defense Force, and about 27 or so years before the clans returned to the Inner-Sphere.  There would really be no way to obtain it, and no way a front-line pilot would possess one.  In clan society, as a warrior grows older, his honor becomes less and less, and it is to those with little honor that inner-sphere refits are given, those without much hope of a future.  They are seen as a last chance, a way to gain glory at increasingly bad odds due to inferior equipment. A new Sibko would get only the best.


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Actually, Jemal, I am gonna beg to get in on this, I have given it some thought, and while all of the online play I do is great to solve my agressiveness, it does nothing to sate my urges towards playing out a clan character, although I do have a clan character history, etc, dealing with roleplay on a clan wide level is too impersonal for my tastes, especially because I cannot give into my urges and go about absorbing weaker clans willy-nilly.




No begging necesary, Clan Wolf can always use good warriors.  As for absorbing weaker clans... we'll see. 



> I will lead *MY* star from the cockpit of my Hellbringer Prime, it is a Command Mech without peer among the tonnage range you specified,  both for its Electronic Counter Measure suite, and for its Active Probe, providing accurate information to the one that most requires it.




Now THAT might take a little begging.. We'll see how the Trials of Position go.

OK, I'm heading to bed right away - The first 4 bios posted by people stating they want to be clan wolf mechwarriors will have priority, not Counting Douane, who'll be in as soon as his bio's up.  That was excellent posting and he's earned one of the 5 spots allready.  Any bios after that will have to be a different type (Aerospace pilot, Elemental, etc).  Once these have been figured out, we'll figure out which mechs are being piloted by whom.  THEN comes the Trials of position when the Jumpships stop at an uninhabited world on their way towards the Inner Sphere.


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## Jemal (Nov 19, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> On a related note, the clans do not have any Hatchetman Battle-mechs.  Not only is its primary weapon against the clan rules of engagement, Zell-bringen, it was also designed and built in 3023, a few hundred years after the Exodus of the Star-League Defense Force, and about 27 or so years before the clans returned to the Inner-Sphere.  There would really be no way to obtain it, and no way a front-line pilot would possess one.  In clan society, as a warrior grows older, his honor becomes less and less, and it is to those with little honor that inner-sphere refits are given, those without much hope of a future.  They are seen as a last chance, a way to gain glory at increasingly bad odds due to inferior equipment. A new Sibko would get only the best.




Point well taken, but the traditional mechs don't really matter... since this Sibko will be THE first wave, they'll have the best technology available to them, and I'm allowing everyone to design their own mech, using a program called Mechworks (I think I've talked about that program before).  It's great because it lets you select what level of technology you want to work with, tonnage of the mech, etc, etc.. So you can create a realistic Clan Omnimech.


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2003)

Cherish
Of Blood House Ward

Cherish and the rest of her sibko were birthed on the the Capital planet of the clans, if the Clans could be said to have a joint Capital, then surely Strana mechty was the planet. Capital of Clan Wolf, but also, home to the Grand Council of the Clans, the place where the great khans of each of the clans would meet and discuss the matters of warriors. She was birthed on this capital planet from the Iron Wombs of the Wolf clan, born of the genes of bloodhouse Ward, a Bloodhouse known through-out the clans as one of the most exceptional Mechwarrior Gene-pools. This excellence has placed the genetic legacy of house Ward on the list of those that are most sought after in trials of possession, trials which the Blood-named of the house have successfuly won.

Personality: As all potential clan warriors, Cherish has been raised to be competitive to a fault, emphasized by the fact that of the 100 children that started in the sibko, less then 20 have passed all of the testing leading up to the Testing Out Process which by tradition takes place on the 18th birthday. Cherish has a firey disposition, not content to simpl wait for what is given to her, she takes what she wants from whom she wishes, unless those that have what she wants are more highly skilled, which is the clan way, only those with the strength to hold their prize from all others may do so. Despite this competitive drive for excellence, Cherish is a surprisingly compassionate person, with both her pets, and with her flute, made from a type of wood native to planet Eden.

Appearance: As with all true-born, her appearance runs within the norms for clan pilots, she possess a slender athletic form with the smallish breasts that are bred into females pilots as a result of their not needing to nurse children.  She stands a somewhat average 5'3" and she possess the downy blond hair possesed by most members of her blood-house, although she does have bright green eyes insead of the more normal colors bread into her fellow sib-kin. She wears her hair cropt short so as to allow better connections with her neuro-helmet interface, taking particular care of the hair at her temples. Her normal clothing is that of a mechwarrior, shorts, T-shirt, and boots, which shows off a knife scar on her right fore-arm, received in a Circle of Equals with a Jade Falcon Sibko overa point of Clan honor.  On her lower back a few inches above her butt is a stylized tattoo of a wolf pouncing on a Jade Falcon.

Mech: Cherish pilots a Hellbringer Prime, finding that its long-range sniper mentality suits her attitude nicely. As is the way of the clans, Cherish will pilot her Hellbringer, untill someone is strong enough to take it from her, for she will not relinquish it.

Note: Cherish will not tolerate being second best to anyone, She will be Star Commander, because she is the greatest warrior, and that is a simple fact, at least to her. If she is not victorious, the pilot who is will receive a constant stream of one upsmanship and challenges, either until she wins and does become Star Commander, or until she dies. To her, there is no other way, rise to the top, or your already dead.


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## doghead (Nov 19, 2003)

Downloaded the quickstart rules. Given myself a headache looking at all the mechs and reading various stuff.

Taarnish. Thats all I know at the moment. The character's name. 

I was tempted by the idea of playing an assault 'copter pilot - a great big Mil 24 Hind-D "Devils Chariot", on steroids. Seen Mamoru's (sorry, spelling might be off) _Avalon_. The twin rotor beasty. Troop insertion and Mechwarrior extraction a speciallity.

One the other hand, taking a Mechwarrior and putting Cherish in her place has a certain appeal (trouble is I suspect she would hand me a whupping)  

I'm off to get some sleep before I try and digest some of this material.


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## Douane (Nov 19, 2003)

Doghead,

the clans detest conventional vehicles extremely, barely good for the second-raters.

The frontline troops consist of:

Elementals ('big' Infantry in Power Armor)
Aerospace Fighters
Mechs

I think we should try to get a mech star (smallest unit with 5 mechs) together before branching out.


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 19, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> Doghead,
> 
> the clans detest conventional vehicles extremely, barely good for the second-raters.
> 
> ...



That souds about right, the tonnage of our star places us squarely in the category of a Heavy Star, so, I am thinking we should run along the lines of:

Hellbringer
Mad Dog
Nova
Summoner
Stormcrow

All of which are in use by clan wolf at the start of the Invasion, each of their different configurations grant many variable abilities to the Mechs, including if we are so inclined, a switch over to entirely missile systems, and NARC beacons to guide those missiles in on the target.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Nov 19, 2003)

I'd be really interesting in having my character pilot a Summoner...not sure on background at the moment, but I'm working on it. Have to get used to the history more.


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 20, 2003)

Where can I find a list of mechs and their stats? Because I have never heard of the five mechs Shal just proposed.

If I do get a spot as a pilot I'd really like to have a mech which I'm familiar with and have an idea of its capabilities. Could I possibly have a Vulture if thats ok? Suggesting I get a spot as a pilot of course.


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## Jemal (Nov 20, 2003)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> Where can I find a list of mechs and their stats? Because I have never heard of the five mechs Shal just proposed.
> 
> If I do get a spot as a pilot I'd really like to have a mech which I'm familiar with and have an idea of its capabilities. Could I possibly have a Vulture if thats ok? Suggesting I get a spot as a pilot of course.




http://members.aol.com/fnoor/clanmech.html  List of clan mechs, butdoesn't have a listing of years or actual stats.  The only way to get a spot as a pilot is to submit a bio before others do.

Either way, as I've said before you won't need to worry about whether you're familiar with it and it's capabilities or not because you WILL be familiar, as you'll be designing your own mechs using Mechworks once we're ready to begin mech selection.  If you want to pilot a type of mech that's allready made, simply find the stats on it (Or ask me to) and create it with the program.  The reason I want them all like this is so I can use it to print off the sheets and have them in hardcopy AND on my harddrive.  Plus, it makes refitting and changing your mechs between missions easy if you want to do that.  


EDIT: 
So far we have TWO confirmed Mechwarrior candidates, Cherish of Blood-house Ward, and Kevin of Blood-house Regner, ready to take the Trial of Position.


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 20, 2003)

Kevin of Blood House Regner:

Appearance:
Kevin has grey-blue eyes, short dark brown hair, and the standard build of a clan mech pilot. He sports a small moustache and goatee, but they're red, which makes an interesting comparison with his hair. He is always wearing long pants unless the situation dictates otherwise, and his shirts are loose-fitting because he likes freedom of movement. He possesses a couple of tatoos, one an ancient celtic pattern going around his upper right arm. The other is a pair of crossed pistols on his left forearm. He bears a few knicks and scratches from becoming a mechwarrior, but no significant scars. 

Kevin often sports a pair of custom pistols, built specifically for himself. The weapons were a year in the making, and he went to great lengths to have them just right, accesories and all. The guns are beautifully engraved and are basically mirror images of each other, except that one has 'alpha' engraved into the slide, and the other has 'omega'.

Attitude:
Kevin doesn't see himself as a leader. In fact he's quite happy taking a supporting role. He will obey orders without problem, but will offer ideas and advice if he thinks he has a better solution. He can be fiercely loyal towards those whom he considers comrades, and will always follow whomever he feels is acting in the best interests of the star and their objectives. While he feels no real urge to lead, he does feel that he must prove himself as a mech pilot, which leads him to volunteering for more difficult roles in combat.

His favourite pass time is working with small arms, and when possible he spends time at firing ranges, favouring pistols, shotguns and sub-machineguns above longer ranged weapons. Kevin's preferred method of combat is to get up close to an opponent and hit them hard while remaining able to outmanuever them to avoid returning fire, he especially likes being able to make good use of the terrain.

History:
In times past he has had, to put lightly, disagreements with members of clan Star Adder, even leading to a trial of grievance in which he managed to kill his opponent. Thus earning even more enmity from his opponent's colleagues.

Mech:
Kevin likes to use heavier medium/ lighter heavy mechs who are able to pack punch while retaining an adaquet level of speed, and field of fire.


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## doghead (Nov 20, 2003)

*sniff*

How can you not like helicopters. Particularly the big russian ones. They are so fantastically ugly!

OK. A mech. A larger version of the Locust with a single large slug thrower (lasers don't make enough noise) and a couple of batterys of missiles. Highly mobile and solid armour and no jump jets (I never could master the little .... things in the computer game).

Problem is, I'm a Mac pilot. Mechworks is a Windows application. I do have Mech Hanger 2.0, but I doubt that it is compatible.


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## Douane (Nov 20, 2003)

Doghead,

I don't think you'd really want to have a BT VTOL. the hit location table for them goes like:

2 Rotor
3 Rotor
4 Rotor
5 Rotor
6 Armor
7 Armor
8 Armor
9 Armor
10 Rotor
11 Rotor
12 Rotor

this plus the fact that the Rotors themselves can only have two points of armor: Uggh! 


Concerning the mech:

Email me at folkert.siedler at t-online.de  with the specifics you have in mind and I'll build it for you in Mechworks format.


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Festy, the Mad Dog is the Clan designation of the Vulture, actually, everything I posted uses the clan designator, and not the innersphere designation.  If anyone needs to know anything about a mech, I have Heavy metal Pro, which gives all Stats and Info for every mech in existance, its a wonderful program, it can even print them out as record sheets.  Its great, I do not kniow what I would do without it.

As a Cultural note, the Clans find use of contractions as highly offensive.  I will add cultural notes sporadically in my posts.


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Shalimar,

you really want to be the leader, don't you? 

BTW, as I'm just working on my concept, the pups of Clan Wolf get their Trial of Position at Age 20.


Folkert


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Nov 21, 2003)

Jyren of Blood House [-ehh...umm...uhh...-]

Appearance:
Jyren has the standard build of a mechwarrior. He has fairly short brown hair, with an almost lighter colored 'stripe' through it. He bears no noticable scars, though he has many smaller marks that amount to little. His eyes are an almost flat grey, bordering on an almost silver in brighter light.

Personality:
While Jyren somtimes feels he should be giving orders more than taking them, he will always respect and obey a superior. He is loyal and dedicated to his comrades, and while not bloodthirsty, loves a good fight as much as the next mechwarrior. He is tactically minded, and usually thinks along a larger scale and finds himself missing details.

Mech:
Jyren prefers a good balance of both speed and power, though he will pilot nearly anything he can get his hands on.


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

I personally do not care, Cherish would care quite a lot, as would any real clan Warrior, thats what they are bred for, to rise as high as they possibly can on the strength of their abilities.  I personally would like some competition for it, as that is what would really occur.

It has been a few years since I read the Blood of Kerensky series Douane, so you are probably right, I just remember Phelan testing out and I could not remember if he was 18 or 20.


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

These are the possible Bloodhouses that are a part of Wolf, baring in mind that we are all Mechwarriors, only the Mechwarrior and General Bloodnames would be availible for Blood-House.  The names marked with Asteriks were absorbed from Clan Widowmaker, they bare some connotation of dishonor as Clan Widowmaker was wiped out by Wolf for the murder of Nicholas Kerensky.

*Bloodnames*



*General Bloodnames*
Fetladral
Kerensky 
Conners *


*MechWarriors*
Carns
Radick
Ward
Vickers * 
Sender *


*Elementals*
Shaw
Sradac
Tutuola
*Pilots*
Ch'in
Mehta
Leroux *
Rhyde *


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I personally do not care, Cherish would care quite a lot, as would any real clan Warrior, thats what they are bred for, to rise as high as they possibly can on the strength of their abilities.  I personally would like some competition for it, as that is what would really occur.
> 
> It has been a few years since I read the Blood of Kerensky series Douane, so you are probably right, I just remember Phelan testing out and I could not remember if he was 18 or 20.




Sorry, my remark was meant in jest (hence the smiley), as the part about "constant upmanship and challenges" doesn't leave much room for compromises to my mind and seems to be very intensive, even for Clanners.


We use the same source of information: Cyrilla Ward mentions several times that the training ends at 20.


Folkert


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

*Yuri*
of the House of _Kerensky_

Being part of the genetic legacy of the most prestigious Bloodheritage the Clans acknowledge has formed Yuri more than anything else.


Appearance/ Personality:
At nearly 6'6", Yuri’s size gave quickly birth to the joke that, with Kerensky being a general Bloodright, an error occurred in the wombs and he got Elemental instead of Mechwarrior genes. Certainly reinforcing this semi-rumour was the fact that the field of combat he most excels in is Unarmed Combat.
Once upon a time 300 years ago Yuri would have been called a perfect posterboy for Star League recruitment posters.  Accenting his handsomeness are his icy-blue eyes and his whitish-blond hair, which is just long enough to be kept in (small) ponytail. Yuri is usually wearing the somewhat formal grey leathers of the Wolf Clan.

Quite a contrast to many of his impulsive sibkin, Yuri seems to lack the overwhelming inner fire propelling most members of the Warrior Caste forward, most notably among them the temperamental Cherish. Often criticized for this and his seeming lack of emotions (seen as part of his "elemental heritage"), Yuri usually counters with "While I do have emotions, I am simply not ruled by these, as I am able to control them." In fact, all of this goes far to mask a coldly calculating mind, never overly concerned with short time successes, but planning far into the future. 
Calm and composed seem describe his personality best. Never holding grudges, he treats 'friend and foe' alike in the same friendly and yet distanced way. What little spare time Yuri has, he usually spends either practising his martial arts or studying Clan history, tradition and customs. However, he applies his considerable knowledge in these matters in ways that make the Sibko trainers extremely uncomfortable: A master of the Batchall, Yuri will twist and bend the traditions and customs of the Clans with complete disregard for what clanners hold sacred if it suits his intentions. This has already gone so far that some members of his House have mourned the fact that the Dragoons did not heed the recall order and thus shed some light on the final fate of Natasha Kerensky, because the Bloodright of her Bloodname would certainly be the most fitting available. 

(But everything has its price and Yuri's concentration on other fields has lead to him 'neglecting' his mech piloting skills to the point that others like Cherish and Jyren, though of lesser Bloodlines, have surpassed him in ability. Still, he doesn't exactly worry about this, secure in his knowledge that the really important battles are neither waged nor won in a mech.)


While his detractors openly voice their concern that the "lethargic and slow Yuri is a shame for the glorious Way of the Clans", his patrons within the Blood House maintain that he is "a fine example of the 'Kerensky Vision' ".


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 21, 2003)

Well Shal, since you're offering, could you please get me the stats and standard issue gear of a Mad Dog? 

I wanna see what I can get if I tweak with it some.

Douane, kewl character btw.


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> Douane, kewl character btw.




Thanks!


[EDIT: Sorry! I've tried to attach a zip file with the vulture base and it's stock variants in txt format and a file of the Vulture in .mek format, ready to use with the Mechworks program Jemal uses and has linked to, but the the boards are acting up as usual.  Sent it via email instead.]

Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Um, the Mad Dog is a an omni-mech, if you want I can give you the base and you can fill out the omni-bays.

I will go through bit by bit:

Mad Dog (Vulture) Base
28 tons free
38 free Crits

Engine: XL
Walk 5
Run 8
12 fixed Double Heatsinks 

Armor: Ferro-Fibrous
8.5 Tons
163 points of armor


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

A small addition to the list Shalimar kindly posted above:

Those Houses are only the Bloodnames that remain exclusively with Clan Wolf. There are a lot of Bloodnames shared between two or more Clans, so nobody's limited to those.

Some examples for non-exclusive Merchwarrior or General Bloodnames found within the Wolf touman (= fighting arm in the Inner Sphere):

Brown
Furey
Carson
Ghiberti
Kederk
Kisiel
Lewis
McKibben
Neely
Sherbow
Toshi
Wallace
Winson


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## Jemal (Nov 21, 2003)

Couple things..

1:  Thnx both of u for posting those blood names, I was going to do it up but I'm glad I don't have to.  There's over 400 Blood names that I've found, but keeping it simple is good.

2: Yes the normal clan age for the Trial of Position is 20, but if you guys want to be younger, it's fine.. I did say you could be 18 or over, b/c they're lowering restrictions b/c of the invasion.

3: Updated Mechwarrior Candidate list for the Trial of Position: 
Cherish of house Ward (Shalimar)
Kevin of House Regner (Festy-Dog)
Jyren of House ? (Ankh-Morpork Guard )
Yuri of House Kerensky (Douane)


Others who've expressed Interest: 
Doghead

(And i the first few posts, NeoWeasel+Tenkar... but they haven't been back)


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> 3: Updated Mechwarrior Candidate list for the Trial of Position:
> Cherish of house Kerensky (Shalimar)
> Kevin of House Regner (Festy-Dog)
> Jyren of House ? (Ankh-Morpork Guard )
> Yuri of House Kerensky (Douane)




Ahem! 

Cherish is of the House of Ward.


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

DAMN!

Just realized that Yuri sounds like an 'Über-Man' because I forgot one tiny little point: With all of his other talents, he is no more than a mediocre mech pilot.


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

I should tell you that Mech Works is faulty, I am unable to build the official variants of the Hellbringer without being told that the mech is overweight.  A girl does not like to hear that she is over-weight.  I do not know what it is but it keeps coming up as .75 tons over weight on most of the variants. That is what got me to shell out the $45.00 for Heavy Metal plus in the first place, it is a comprehensive Mech, Vehicle, Aerospace, Protomech, and Battle Armor creation suite that has everything that has been in a TRO already in it.


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## Dirigible (Nov 21, 2003)

Aww man, Clan Wolf? Why can't we play a REAL man's clan, like Jade Falcon?   

Hi. I'll admit, it's been a few years since I've got my mech on. I would be interested in playing, if you'll be patient and guide someone who can't tell his Timber Wolf from his Mad Cat anymore .

Unless you're desperate for another mechwarrior, I wouldn't mind playing an Elemental.


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## doghead (Nov 21, 2003)

_Cherish was furious. This was worse than loosing the leadership of the Star. The other Mechwarriors had just given it to her, told her to take it if she wanted it! As if it were no more than an ugly sofa that has been cluttering up someones spare room! How was she supposed to work with deviants like these!_

Sorry, couldn't resist. Naught me! Naughty! Naughty!

But seriously, I have found Cherish's IC stuff most enlightening and it has been the source of much of my curiosity about the game. Thanks.


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I should tell you that Mech Works is faulty, I am unable to build the official variants of the Hellbringer without being told that the mech is overweight.  A girl does not like to hear that she is over-weight.  I do not know what it is but it keeps coming up as .75 tons over weight on most of the variants. That is what got me to shell out the $45.00 for Heavy Metal plus in the first place, it is a comprehensive Mech, Vehicle, Aerospace, Protomech, and Battle Armor creation suite that has everything that has been in a TRO already in it.




It calculates the XL engine's weight mathematically, ie. half weight for a Hellbringer is 11.75 tons instead of 12.00. It also adds MGs to the direct-fire weapons counting for a Targeting computer. So in case of the primary config, it gives 0.25 additional pod space (due to the lower engine weight) and subtracts 1.00 for a bigger targeting computer,  because the MG "pushes" it over the '15.00 limit' for a 3.00 targeting computer.


Might I suggest another mech program as an alternative?

BattleMech Designer 9.71 

It's free, seems to calculate okay so far and has the standard mechs (IS and Clans) as pre-built files.


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Have any of you heard of a wonderful little free program known as Megamek? It allows you to play the Pen and Paper gamer on your computer, either with a bot playing (quite intelligently) for the other team, or, you can play online and have your friends join in. You can make the map any size, although it tends to slow down at anything larger then a battallion on the field, it is a wonderful little thing. It incorporates all Vehicles, Infantry, and all standard mechs including variants, up to Level 2 rules.

Well, I was bored, so I played around a bit, playing out a few possible scenarios of what would happen if our Star engaged a periphery unit as is quite possible being as we will be starting at the periphery and working inward. The periphery pirates and groups use outdated and shoddy tech, so I gave them a mixed medium/light lance and a mixed heavy/medium lance, all mechs being 3025 era or earlier mechs. Ran through it 3 times, in no case did we lose a mech, although Cherish's Hellbringer wound up on its back with its right leg, right arm, and left shoulder actuator destroyed. This just really emphasizes how much clan technology is then Inner Sphere technology, not to mention Periphery technology. I did give the clan pilots the PnP stats for Trueborn warriors, 3/4 as opposed to the Pirates 4/5 but going by the books the pirates first engaged by wolf were probably 5/6 or 6/7 so it is comparitbly even.

I must say that the Summoner variant that mounts the LBX10, ErPPC, SSRM6, small pulse laser weapons load out is hellish as far seeking out a mechs weak spot, it killed half the opposition 2 games running because of the lbx/ssrm6 shots critting a mech in several spots with one shot. The shotgun effect of the LBX is truly scary, as is an Ultra AC20 firing in Ultra mode, the Stormcrow ended up killing the Battlmaster that was leading the Periphery Bandits 2 times out of 3 because it did 40 damage in 1 shot to the Center torso twice in a row.  There were also 4 headshots, 3 with Gauss Rifles, and 1 with an ErPPC.


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> It calculates the XL engine's weight mathematically, ie. half weight for a Hellbringer is 11.75 tons instead of 12.00. It also adds MGs to the direct-fire weapons counting for a Targeting computer. So in case of the primary config, it gives 0.25 additional pod space (due to the lower engine weight) and subtracts 1.00 for a bigger targeting computer, because the MG "pushes" it over the '15.00 limit' for a 3.00 targeting computer.
> 
> 
> Might I suggest another mech program as an alternative?
> ...



I cannot get that program to work for me at all, keep getting errors, Jemal, the only mech I want to use is the Hellbringer, the alternate configurations I plan on using are the stock Alt. Configs presented in the TROs.  Do you have access to those?


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I cannot get that program to work for me at all, keep getting errors, Jemal, the only mech I want to use is the Hellbringer, the alternate configurations I plan on using are the stock Alt. Configs presented in the TROs.  Do you have access to those?




Oops, works without a glitch for me. 


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> Oops, works without a glitch for me.
> 
> 
> Folkert



Well, I do not need it if you have it since you know the configs I will want to use since I am going to want to stick to BT TRO configs quiaff?


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Aff. In fact, I consider it strangely fitting for you to prefer this particular mech, Cherish.

[]


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> Aff. In fact, I consider it strangely fitting for you to prefer this particular mech, Cherish.
> 
> []



I like it for a few reasons, the name not the least of which .  I like it because it has ECM so it can lay a blanket cloud of electrical intereference over our entire star from enemy sensors so they cannot pick us up, I like it because it has an active probe that gets to tell me what is out there despite the ECM, and I also like it because in Mechwarrior 4 Mercs I have 8 Lrm 10s on one with BAP and ECM, so I can knock all kinds of mechs on their butts (Not to mention kill them) with only 1 or 2 shots.


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Indeed. Stupid me, that I even dared to think it might be connected to its status as a favorite of Clan Chicken.  (smirk)


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## doghead (Nov 21, 2003)

*A mech*

Basically, its just a Locust on steroids. The program I use doesn't explain much, so I wonder at how feasible this is. I suspect its not.

Update - completely, once I realised you had to add tonnage for armour separate from allocating it   So I seemed to have ended up with a mini Marauder.

45 tons
Internal Structure: Endo Steel II*
Engine: 260 XL**
Movement: WMP 6, RMP 9, 
Heat Sinks: 10 (20)***, 
Armour Factor: 144 (Ferro-Fibrous)**** 
 :: H 9, CT 18, CTR 9, RT/LT 14, RTR/LTR 8, RA/LA 12, RL/LL 20.
Weapons:
 :: Ultra AC 5 (LA), Ammo 20 (LA)
 :: Ultra AC 5 (RA), Ammo 20 (RA)
 :: LRM 10 (CT), Ammo 12 (RT)
Misc:
 :: Anti Personnel Pod (LT)
 :: Artemis IV FCS (LT)*****

Left and Right Hand actuator removed.
0.0 Remaining Tons.
18 Remaining Critical Spaces.

* Lighter, uses Critical space?
** I'm not really sure what this means. The XL engine halves the tonnage. Whats the catch? 
*** Free sinks? You can click and lose the value in brackets.
**** Seems to suck up more Critical Space. Got heaps of that.
***** *MASC* Artemis IV FCS (Fire Control System I suspect), Beagle Active Probe, *CASE*, ECM (Electronic Counter Measures), Anti Missile System - not sure what they _are_ or do.

The generation program gives me "Too many criticals assigned to the head and right arm." I don't have anything in the Head and the right is the same as the left.

And thats all folks. It was fun but now my eyes are all squinty. Still, much easier than doing it on paper. I called it Doggybone.


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

Doghead,

that design is not usable. Endo II is no standard technology and therefore probably not usuable in this game. Constructed with the standard materials he is 1 ton overweight, without even including the AP Pod.

Also your "Locust on steroids" is nowhere as fast as the IS locust normally. You can reach the same speed by employing the MASC, at the risk of having your legs frozen. (straight 2D6, 1st round 3+ to be okay, 2nd 5+, 3rd 7+, 4th 9+, 5th autofailure, though they cool down one step each round not employed.

I repeat my offer: Email me and we'll work something out. 


Folkert


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## doghead (Nov 21, 2003)

Ta. I will. 

I want to give it a try myself just to see. I tried for the Locust speed but couldn't get both the armour and speed. So speed got sacrificed. 

I've gotta dash now but I will get in touch over the weekend. Basically, I'd like something along the lines of what I generated. But I'd be happy to adapt it to fit the Star. Just so long as it isn't ugly  

Cheers


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## Douane (Nov 21, 2003)

I will try to work something out along the guidelines and send it your way as a possible suggestion.

Remember to post a bio for Jemal!


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Doghead, if you are looking for a fast mech that is pretty loud, then I suggest the Ice Ferret (Fenris) Prme configuration, it moves 8W/14R, and mounts a Particle Projection Cannon, a streak missile pack, and a Small ER Laser, as well as a Beagle Active Probe for scouting purpouses, and carries just shy of its maximum allowable armor.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Nov 21, 2003)

I'm kind of worried about designing my mech. Its been a definate long time since I've done anything Battletech, and I'm still re-absorbing info. I do, however, remember that my all time favorite mech was always Summoner(like I said before), so I'd want to pilot one if at all possible.


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## Shalimar (Nov 21, 2003)

Assuming that the Ice Ferret Prime fits Doghead's expectations of it, then we will have 130 tons left to play around with for our star
300-60-65-45=130

If you go with the Summoner, that will be our one Seventy ton mech, leaving 60 tons for Douane to play with for his mech, a very respectable amount of tonnage, it could all be used to provide another Mad Dog, or he could simply take 55 tons of it to pilot a Stormcrow or Stooping Hawk.  Personally I think your taking the summoner is fine and will round us out.

I would make your mech's default configuration the Altenate M variant, for its balance of close and ranged fire-power.  Our Star as we are all omni-mechs will be reconfigured for any given mission, but I think that would bring the best default weapons mix.


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## Douane (Nov 22, 2003)

For everyone interested in the "standard" (or more suitable: "favorite") mechs of Clan Wolf and some hints regarding the distribution of weight and models (and thus the rarity of some types/models):


At April 15, 3052 the frontline units of the Touman (= fighting arm) of Clan Wolf present in the Inner Sphere contain around 660 mechs.

Type and number (from the highest weight down; high numbers rounded)

Dire Wolf / Daishi  6
Executioner / Gladiator  8
Warhawk / Masakari  5
Gargoyle /Man O’War  130
Naga (80t)  30
Timber Wolf / Mad Cat  60
Summoner / Thor  8
Hellbringer / Loki  6
Linebacker (65t)  17
Mad Dog / Vulture  17
Stormcrow / Ryoken  10
Nova / Black Hawk  9
Ice Ferret / Fenris  180 
Viper / Dragonfly  8
Pouncer (40t)   15
Phantom (40t)  20
Adder / Puma  110
Kit Fox / Uller  3
Mist Lynx / Koshi  11
Fire Moth / Dasher  4


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 22, 2003)

Ok, here's the first of two setups for the Mad Dog which Kevin may use:

Type/Model:    Mad Dog (Vulture)
Tech:          Clan / 3050
Config:        Biped OmniMech
Rules:         Level 2, Standard design

Mass:          60 tons
Chassis:       Standard
Power Plant:   300 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 km/h
Jump Jets:     None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type:    Ferro-Fibrous 
Armament:      
  1 ER PPC
  4 Medium Pulse Lasers
  2 Streak SRM 6s
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)

------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Type/Model:    Mad Dog (Vulture)
Mass:          60 tons

Equipment:                                                  Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  99 pts Standard                           0      6,00
Engine:        300 XL Fusion                             10      9,50
   Walking MP:   5
   Running MP:   8
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     18 Double [36]                          12      6,00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 1 LA, 2 LT, 2 RT, 1 RA)
Gyro:                                                            4      3,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                             5      3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA    R: Sh+UA                 13       ,00
Armor Factor:  163 pts Ferro-Fibrous                  7      8,50
 (Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 1 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT)

                                                                      Internal    Armor
                                                                    Structure   Value
   Head:                                                               3           9      
   Center Torso:                                                   20          23      
   Center Torso (Rear):                                                        7      
   L/R Side Torso:                                                 14        16/16      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):                                                    7/7      
   L/R Arm:                                                          10        16/16      
   L/R Leg:                                                          14        23/23      

Weapons and Equipment            Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 ER PPC                                 RA    15                 2       6,00
4 Medium Pulse Lasers               LA     20                 4      8,00
1 Streak SRM 6                        RT     4       30        4       5,00
  (Ammo Locations: 1 LT, 1 RT)
1 Streak SRM 6                        LT     4                   2      3,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                                                             46      60,00
Crits & Tons Left:                                                 14       ,00

The other possible setup was replacing the ER PPC with a Large Pulse Laser, getting rid of two heat sinks and adding another Medium Pulse Laser to the left arm (I always have a kind of laser gatling gun in mind when I imagine that arm ).


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## doghead (Nov 22, 2003)

Quick post, then bath (to get my feet warm), then bio.

What is an Omni mech? Does anyone know a page that outlines some of the tech stuff (MASA, CASE etc)?

PS - Shalimar, that sounds about right. I'll look into it. Ta.


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## Douane (Nov 22, 2003)

Doghead,

I have prepared a list of the more "exotic" pieces of mech equipment and will send it your way, along with data on the Ice Ferret.

Omni-mechs are the standard frontline mechs of the Clans. The main difference to normal mechs is that they don't have one "hardwired" set of equipment, but are modular instead. Thus they receive a certain amount of pod space each with which different configurations can be added to the base chassis, allowing them to prepare for different situations far better.


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Nov 22, 2003)

An example of the an omni-mech is the Hellbringer.  It has Omni-bays for its weapons and equipmen, before it goes out on a mission it is decided which set of Omni-modules are going to be installed which totally changes the mechs weapons and capabilities to suit the mission.  This is one of our huge advantages of the Inner Sphere barbarians, their technology and battlemechs are fixed, they can not change the load out for a mission wjat it rollsout of the factory with is most likely what it still hase, barring a weapon being destroyed and another being subbed in to replace it.


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## doghead (Nov 23, 2003)

Thanks Folkert

The Ice Ferret looks good (good call Shalimar). Thanks for all the info and advice. If this fits the star, I'll go with it. I'll wait and see whats what before getting into which configuration to use. On this area I'll probably go with what the more experienced Battletechers suggest. 

I don't have Word on this computer, so I have to get onto the BT file later.

PS: Folkert, my mail service is acting up. I get error messages, but sometimes it does it anyway. Could you let me know if you got a reply in your email? Thanks.


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## dpdx (Nov 23, 2003)

I wonder how many of you people I MUXed with on '30 and '29.


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## Douane (Nov 23, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> Thanks Folkert
> 
> I don't have Word on this computer, so I have to get onto the BT file later.
> 
> PS: Folkert, my mail service is acting up. I get error messages, but sometimes it does it anyway. Could you let me know if you got a reply in your email? Thanks.




No problem! 


Aargh, sorry! Meant to save that as a rtf file, not a doc one. Just sent another mail with rtf and txt versions.

And no, I didn't receive a reply.


Folkert


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## doghead (Nov 23, 2003)

Shalimar. Just saw the Hellbringer TRO. I see why you like it.

Folkert. I opened the file with a .rtf reader and just edited out the Word bumphf. It loses formatting but is readable. No reply. Ok. Thanks.

Back to the bio.


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## doghead (Nov 23, 2003)

*Tarnish of House Conners*

Tarnish of House Conners*

Trueborn.

Everthing about Tarnish offends the conservatives. His House, his appearence, his sloppyness.

Tarnish is of average hight, but jaggedly thin, a stark construct of muscle and bone, all flat planes and bony petrusions. His hair is dreadlocked, heavily matted cords tied back with a ragged piece of cloth. Dark tattoos snake their way up each  of his arms from the wrists to the shoulder. His clothes are a chaotic collection of too small and too big. A scrounged pair of battered ground crew cargo pants and an old infantry utility jacket would not be unusual. Many believe that Tarnish has not worn anything bought new since he was old enough to choose his own clothes (well, apart from some things, obviously ... hopefully  ).

But beneath the exterior burns a ferociously competetive spirit, for which  scorn is but more fuel. Throughout his training, he has constantly sought, and often done so, to best all his sibkin. While his ability is not in doubt, his detractors consider him a -up. His supporters believe that his attidude is just "a phase". Tarnish doesn't seem to care what anyone thinks. He listens to those that he has to, nodding occasionally, but saying nothing. He ignores those he doesn't have to listen to. Actions, not clothes, not words, not popularity make the Mechwarrior. 

More often than not, around base Tarnish will be seen riding his pushbike, alone, except for his lean raggedy hound, loping along behind him. When out on training exercises, the hound stays by the bike, usually just dropped on the tarmac, awaiting Tarnish's return. Like his master, the dog is regarded warily by most. 

***

Finished reading a Wolf Clan history. Very interesting. Starting to get a handle on some of the terminology. A Nova is a mixed unit, Mechs and something, right?


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## Shalimar (Nov 23, 2003)

Doghead, a few points about the clans.  Warriors are issued everything they need 100% new, they are the ruling class of the society, everyone else exists to support them.  The Techs exist to maintain he Battlemechs, Scientists exist to improve the Battlemechs, and to run the Eugenics programs, the laborers exist to do all the Scutwork.  The merchant caste exists to run to handle dealings between clans, and to work with the laborers.  There really is no monetary system among the clans, and even if their was, if a warrior wanted something, it would be given.  Actually it would be hard to get ill fitting clothing unless you specifically asked for it, and old clothing is probably more difficult to get then ill fitting clothing, we are under military law, and there are certain rules about appearance, the reason most characters wear shorts and t-shirts is because a clan warrior always needs to be ready for a battle, and wearing anything else will be too hot in the heat of a cockpitt, I am trying to recall the source, but when not in shorts and a t-shirt for piloting your mech, there is a uniform for pilots.

The not caring what anyone thinks would not neccessarily be considered a bad thing, most warriors could care less what others think so long as they are able to do what they have to do.  Sibkin are all the same age so its kind of like living at a military boarding school.

A Nova is a 50 ton Battlemech, it is also a binary including mechs and another type of force, be it Elemental or aerospace.  some clans have specific names for the varying types of Novas.


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## doghead (Nov 23, 2003)

Thanks Shalimar. While I am getting up to speed, there is still a lot I don't know. I suspected that there might be some inconsistant elements the background. I figured the easiest thing was just to get it up and find out.

That said, unless Jemal nixes it, the difficulty in being sloppily dressed, (and in Tech and Labourer gear!) makes Tarnish all the more determined to wear it. And he is a determined little bu(@_@)er.


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## Douane (Nov 23, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> [...]A Nova is a 50 ton Battlemech, *it is also a binary including mechs and another type of force, be it Elemental or aerospace.*  some clans have specific names for the varying types of Novas.




Shalimar.

might I ask where you got this from?

Virtually every canon source I ever read puts the Nova as a ''Mech star plus an Elemental star.


Thanks,

Folkert


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## doghead (Nov 24, 2003)

Douane

I found what looked like Mech/Aerospace Novas in the Alpha Wolf Galaxy here: http://www.chaosmarch.com/clan/clanfr.html

ie 3rd Wolfguard Battle (The Sentinals), SuperNova Battle (Trinary), Alpha Nova>> 
Timber Wolf B
Linebacker Prime
Timber Wolf D
Ice Ferret Prime
Dire Wolf Widowmaker
2 - Scytha A
2 - Visigoth A
2 - Turk C
2 - Turk B
2 - Visigoth C


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## Douane (Nov 24, 2003)

Doghead,

thanks for the link!

Looks very interesting, though I tend to doubt that material presented there.

According to the Field Manual: Crusader Clans this unit consists of three *trinaries*: "The three trinaries are mixed: One of OmniMechs and Elementals, one of Omnis and Fighters and one of older BattleMechs and Elementals."

As there is no mention of Novas and trinary (3 stars) consisting of Mechs and Fighters could very well be and probably are two Mech and one Fighter stars, or vice versa.

In addition to that the Field Manual states at least once that Novas consists of one Mech and one elemental star.


Of course that's from material already five years old (the last I bought), so it might be that definitions were "overhauled" in the meantime. That's why I asked.


Folkert


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## Douane (Nov 24, 2003)

[Edit] double-post


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## Douane (Nov 24, 2003)

[Edit] triple-post


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## Jemal (Nov 24, 2003)

Well, I'm downloading Megamek to check it out.  In the mean time, the Star is now very close to being complete... 
So far it looks like this.

Cherish of house Ward (Shalimar), piloting a Hellbringer
Kevin of House Regner (Festy-Dog), piloting a Mad Dog
Jyren of House ? (Ankh-Morpork Guard ), piloting a Summoner
Yuri of House Kerensky (Douane), piloting a (Possibly Mad Dog, Storm Crow, or Stooping hawk)
Tarnish of house Conners (Doghead), piloting an Ice Ferret

Ankh-Morpork Guard, have you decided your blood house yet?

When you guys have the ideas for your mechs finalized, post up the final stats and I'll check out how you're looking.


We also have Dirigible to play an Elemental.  What I'm going to do with you, if you doesn't mind, is put you in charge of a Star of elementals (5 points of 5 elementals each, total of 25 elementals counting you.)


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Nov 24, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Ankh-Morpork Guard, have you decided your blood house yet?




Hmm...alright.

Jyren of House Radick. 

EDIT: Oki...played around with Megamek(nice program!) and found the Summoner. I definatly like the M variant...so here's the stats for it. If I need to fix things, please tell me. 

Summoner M
70 tons   Clan

Movement: 5/8/5
Engine: 350 XL
Heat Sinks: 14 [28]

Internal: 107
Armor: 182/217 (Ferro-Fibrous)
HD:  3    9
CT: 22   27 ( 8)
RT: 15   22 ( 7)
LT: 15   22 ( 7)
RA: 11   17
LA: 11   17
RL: 15   23
LL: 15   23

LB 10-X AC  [LA]
ER PPC  [RA]
Streak SRM 6  [LT]
ER Small Laser  [LT]

LB 10-X Cluster Ammo (10)  [LA]
Streak SRM 6 Ammo (15)  [RT]
Streak SRM 6 Ammo (15)  [RT]


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## Douane (Nov 24, 2003)

Just an update to the Wolf Clan Bloodnames: This seems to be the most complete I can do from published sources.

The names marked with Asteriks were absorbed from Clan Widowmaker, they bare some connotation of dishonor as Clan Widowmaker was wiped out by Wolf for the murder of Nicholas Kerensky.

*Exclusive Bloodnames*

General 
Fetladral
Kerensky 
Conners *

*MechWarriors*
Carns
Radick
Ward
Vickers * 
Sender *

*Elementals*
Shaw
Sradac
Tutuola

*Pilots*
Ch'in
Mehta
Leroux *
Rhyde *


*Shared Bloodnames (Mechwarriors)*

Brown
Carmichael
Carson
Ghiberti
Hakimi
Kederk
Kisiel
Lombardi
McKibben
Neely
Sanders
Sherbow (General Bloodname)
Stims
Toshi (General Bloodname)
Wallace
Wirth
Whull
Winson


*Shared Bloodnames (unspecified)*

Acton
Alberty
Calvert
Demos
Farnsworth
Gorga 
Littleton
Maxwell
Misjak
Nevski
Noruff
Platz 
Reiko
Reller
Ruby
Schroeder
Sword
Taylor


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## doghead (Nov 24, 2003)

I'll take the Prime configuration of the Ice Ferrit as a default. I assume that as they are Omnimechs, we can alter the configuration to suit missions (so long as we have access  to facilities). I'll happily take suggestions as to the best configuration for the Ice Ferrits role. 

How does character generation work? I don't remember seeing anything.


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## Douane (Nov 25, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> I'll take the Prime configuration of the Ice Ferrit as a default. I assume that as they are Omnimechs, *we can alter the configuration to suit missions (so long as we have access  to facilities)*. I'll happily take suggestions as to the best configuration for the Ice Ferrits role.




We normally should, though it's the prerogative of the higher 'ups (Star commanders don't seem to be able to do so) to order specific configurations.


As for PC generation, I asked Jemal the same in an email.


Folkert


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## doghead (Nov 25, 2003)

Yeah, I meant that it was possible to in the technical sence, whether or not we can in the setting is up to the man, and the situation.


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## Douane (Nov 25, 2003)

In a purely technical sense, yes, of course. The pods can be exchanged without problems (and even relatively fast).

The actual game mechanics of the pods aside, Clan Omni-mechs are built in a very modular way, which enormously faciliates repairing them. (Arm or leg shot off? Just slap on a new one at the joint!)


Folkert


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 25, 2003)

> Originally Posted by *Jemal*
> _When you guys have the ideas for your mechs finalized, post up the final stats and I'll check out how you're looking._




Mine's on the previous page.


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## doghead (Nov 25, 2003)

*Tarnish's Mech.*

Ice Ferrit Prime Configuration.

               BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model: Ice Ferret (Fenris)  Prime
Tech: Clan / 3050
Config: Biped OmniMech
Rules: Level 2, Standard design

Mass: 45 tons
Chassis: Endo Steel
Power Plant: 360 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 86,4 km/h
Maximum Speed: 129,6 km/h
Jump Jets: None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type: Ferro-Fibrous 
Armament:      
  1 Active Probe
  1 ER PPC
  1 ER Small Laser
  1 Streak SRM 2
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model: Ice Ferret (Fenris)  Prime
Mass: 45 tons

Equipment: [Crits/Mass]
Int. Struct.:  75 pts Endo Steel [7/2,50]
 (Endo Steel Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine:        360 XL Fusion [10/16,50]
   Walking MP:   8
   Running MP:  12
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     12 Double [24] [0/2,00]
Gyro:                                  [4/4,00]
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:   [5/3,00]
Actuators: L: Sh+UA    R: Sh+UA+LA+H [14/,00]
Armor Factor:  144 pts Ferro-Fibrous     [7/7,50]
 (Armor Crit Loc: 1 HD, 1 LA, 1 RA, 2 LT, 2 RT)

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9      
   Center Torso:             14         19      
   Center Torso (Rear):                  8      
   L/R Side Torso:           11      14/14      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              7/7      
   L/R Arm:                   7      14/14      
   L/R Leg:                  11      19/19      

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Active Probe           CT      0           1      1,00
1 ER PPC                 LA     15           2      6,00
1 ER Small Laser         LA      2           1       ,50
1 Streak SRM 2           RA      2   50      2      2,00
  (Ammo Locations: 1 RA)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         19          53     45,00
Crits & Tons Left:                          25       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost: 12.543.588 C-Bills
Battle Value: 1.529
Cost per BV: 8.203,79
Weapon Value: 1.289 / 1.249 (Ratio = ,84 / ,82)
Damage Factors: SRDmg = 20;  MRDmg = 12;  LRDmg = 6
BattleForce2: MP: 8,  Armor/Structure: 4/3
                   Damage PB/M/L: 3/2/2,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: MM;  Point Value: 15
                   Specials: omni, prb


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## Festy_Dog (Nov 25, 2003)

Who decides the colour schemes of the mechs? Or are there specific clan colours that are supposed to be used?

If the pilots choose the colours I'll definitely go with that 'Stix' theme from MW4 (scattered light blue stripes on a dark blue background).


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## Jemal (Nov 28, 2003)

The colour schemes are set by Galaxy/Cluster.  Is there anyone who's final stats for their mech aren't posted?


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## Douane (Nov 28, 2003)

Umm , just realized that I'm (or rather my mech) still missing.  

Look for it in a few minutes.

Jemal, I will send you that overview I promised in the email tomorrow. (3 AM here and I'm almost falling asleep at the PC.)

[Edit: Here it is!]

               BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    Stormcrow (Ryoken) X2
Mass:          55 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  91 pts Endo Steel             7      3,00
 (Endo Steel Loc: 1 LT, 1 RT, 1 CT, 2 LL, 2 RL)
Engine:        330 XL Fusion                10     12,50
   Walking MP:   6
   Running MP:   9
   Jumping MP:   6
Heat Sinks:     13 Double [26]               6      3,00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 2 LA, 1 LT)
Gyro:                                        4      4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt.:                         5      3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H   16       ,00
Armor Factor:  182 pts Ferro-Fibrous         7      9,50
 (Armor Crit Loc: 3 LT, 3 RT, 1 CT)

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9      
   Center Torso:             18         25      
   Center Torso (Rear):                 10      
   L/R Side Torso:           13      17/17      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              9/9      
   L/R Arm:                   9      18/18      
   L/R Leg:                  13      25/25      

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 Medium Pulse Lasers    RA      8           2      4,00
1 Streak SRM 6           LA      4   30      4      5,00
  (Ammo Locations: 2 LA)
1 Medium Pulse Laser     RT      4           1      2,00
1 Medium Pulse Laser     LT      4           1      2,00
1 Medium Pulse Laser     HD      4           1      2,00
1 Targeting Computer     RT                  2      2,00
6 Standard Jump Jets:                        6      3,00
 (Jump Jet Loc: 3 LT, 3 RT)
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         24          72     55,00
Crits & Tons Left:                           6       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        15.352.362 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2.472
Cost per BV:       6.210,5
Weapon Value:      3.316 / 3.127 (Ratio = 1,34 / 1,26)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 45;  MRDmg = 26;  LRDmg = 0
BattleForce2:      MP: 6J,  Armor/Structure: 5/3
                   Damage PB/M/L: 7/5/-,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: MM;  Point Value: 25
                   Specials: omni


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## Jemal (Nov 28, 2003)

n/p, Douane.  
Oh, also everybody I'll be offline till Saturday or probably Sunday, though.  It's my b-day on Saturday (21), so I might not be posting again till the end of the weekend.

I'll type to all of you then, and we should be ready to move forward to the next step.

BTW, thnx for the help via E-mail, Douane.

EDIT: Dangit, I keep wanting to spell your name with two n's and then have to edit it when I see it's wrong.  Meh, oh well.  CYA.


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## Jemal (Dec 3, 2003)

OK, I'm back now and it looks like we're ready to go...  And the final list of warriors ready to take the trials of position IS......

Shalimar : Cherish of house Ward, piloting A Hellbringer that hasn't been posted yet... (at least, I can't find it) 
Festy-Dog : Kevin of House Regner , piloting the 60 Ton Mad Dog
Ankh-Morpork Guard : Jyren of house Radick - Piloting the 70 Ton Summoner
Douane : Yuri of House Kerensky - Piloting the 55 Ton Stormcrow X2
Doghead : Tarnish of house Conners - Piloting the 45 Ton Ice Ferret

I'm reading over the creation rules for the chars. themselves, and will post up info for that tommorow, just wanted to make sure everyone knows what's what until then.

After I post that up I'll make a Rogues Gallery thread for people to post Character Name & House, Character Stats, Bio, and Mech Stats.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 3, 2003)

Shal's Hellbringer is Primary configuration.


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## Douane (Dec 3, 2003)

For easier reference, here is Shalimar's Hellbringer Prime:


               BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    Hellbringer (Loki)  Prime
Mass:          65 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  104 pts Standard              0      6,50
Engine:        325 XL Fusion                10     12,00
   Walking MP:   5
   Running MP:   8
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     13 Double [26]               0      3,00
Gyro:                                        4      4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt.:                         5      3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA    R: Sh+UA             12       ,00
Armor Factor:  128 pts Standard              0      8,00


                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9      
   Center Torso:             21         17      
   Center Torso (Rear):                  8      
   L/R Side Torso:           15      14/14      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              7/7      
   L/R Arm:                  10      11/11      
   L/R Leg:                  15      15/15      

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
1 Anti-Missile System    HD      1   24      2      1,50
  (Ammo Locations: 1 CT)
1 ER PPC                 LA     15           2      6,00
2 Anti-Personnel Pods    LL      0           2      1,00
1 ECM Suite              LT      0           1      1,00
1 Active Probe           LT      0           1      1,00
3 ER Medium Lasers       LT     15           3      3,00
1 ER PPC                 RA     15           2      6,00
2 Anti-Personnel Pods    RL      0           2      1,00
1 Streak SRM 6           RT      4   15      3      4,00
  (Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
2 Machine Guns           RT      0  100      3      1,00
  (Ammo Locations: 1 RT)
1 Targeting Computer     LT                  3      3,00
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         50          55     65,00
Crits & Tons Left:                          23       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        19.074.686 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2.178
Cost per BV:       8.757,89
Weapon Value:      2.016 / 1.941 (Ratio = ,93 / ,89)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 36;  MRDmg = 24;  LRDmg = 15
BattleForce2:      MP: 5,  Armor/Structure: 3/4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 6/4/2,  Overheat: 4
                   Class: MH;  Point Value: 22
                   Specials: omni, ecm, prb


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## doghead (Dec 3, 2003)

Welcome back Jemal. 
I'll be gone for 48 hours. 
Sorry.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 3, 2003)

Eek...had a few computer problems. Luckily, they are mostly fixed now. Can't wait to get this one started.


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## Douane (Dec 4, 2003)

Jemal,

like I said in my last email, I'll be gone from the boards from Friday till Sunday (probably Monday). I'll jump right in upon my return. 


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 8, 2003)

I'm back, so when do we start? 


Folkert


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## Jemal (Dec 8, 2003)

Well, I've been trying to figure out this character generation stuff and how I'm going to explain it for this game.  Here's how I'll be running it, we'll run it like this unless someone sees something that's obviously missing or causing problems.

You're all clan mechwarriors, and your mechs have been decided by the clans.  So that leaves, from the chart I've been looking at, 3 'priorities' to worry about.

Attributes, Skills, and Advantages.  (Race and Mech are allready decided by the fact that you're clanners.. Prioty 0 for Mechand Priority 2 for Race)

You have 21 points in one of these categories, 27 in another, and 30 in the third. Pls list which is which.

-ATTRIBUTES -

Every PC is defined by five attributes ranging normally from 1 to 6, with 3 being the average. (Some special situations may allow for attributes exceeding this maximum, however.) The five attributes are:

Build (BLD) - strength, stamina and the ability to withstand adverse conditions and wounds

Reflexes (REF) - dexterity, coordination and overall agility
*+1 REF for being Clan MW*

Intuition (INT) - perception, instinct and the ability to think under pressure
*+1 INT for being Clan MW*

Learning (LRN) - self-discipline, ability to understand complex concepts and learning speed

Charisma (CHA) - physical appearance, personal magnetism and strength of presence

Build, Reflexes, Learn and Charisma have a final value equal to the number of points assigned to them during creation. Intuition, however, has final value of half (round down) the attribute points assigned to it.

*NOTE: high stats in the above are good, as they translate into low(good) numbers after the subtraction phase below*

These attributes determine four characteristics which are needed to determine the final skill targets. Each is determined by subtracting two attribute from a base of 18.

Athletic = 18 - BLD - REF
Physical = 18 - REF - INT 
Mental = 18 - INT - LRN 
Social = 18 - INT - CHA

The base skill target will be calculated by subtracting the skill level from the appropriate characteristic for the skill.

_Example 1:

Yuri, with Build of 6 and Reflexes of 5 has an Athletics characteristic of 7+

Athletic ( 7+) (18-BLD-REF)_


-SKILLS-

This determines the number of points that can be assigned to the initial skills. No starting character can buy a skill at a higher level than his LRN(Learning rating). 

It costs one point to buy a skill level of 1. Further skill levels my be purchased at a skill-point cost equal to the new level, ie. an additional 2 skill-points for skill level 2 and another 3 skill-points for skill level 3, bringing the total to 6 skill-points for a skill of level 3.

*I'm ignoring this part*
_Special note for Clanners: The Clans have two certain packages which provide a certain discount to the skills and their levels included in them. The disadvantage to this is that these packages provide a selection of skills and their respective levels that cannot be changed. (You have to buy the whole package and have to put up with the selection provided in exchange for the discount, Such is the price of standardisation. J )_
*Just put it in so people wouldn't be saying HEY, you forgot something.  I didn't forget, I'm just not using it.  now, back to our regularily scheduled explanation..*

List of skills: (defining characteristic for each skill in brackets)

Acrobatics (Athl.)
Administration (Ment.)
Alternate Identity (Ment.)
Appraisal (Ment.)
Archery (Athl.)
Blade (Athl.)
Bureaucracy (Soc.)
Career Skills (divided into subskills) (Ment.)
Climbing (Athl.)
Communications (divided into subskills) (Ment.)
Computer (Ment.)
Cryptography (Ment.)
Demolitions (Ment.)
Disguise (Soc.)
Drive (Phys.)
Enginnering (Ment.)
Escape Artist (Phys.)
Forgery (Ment.)
Gambling (Ment.)
Gunnery (divided into subskills) (Phys.)
Impersonation (Soc.)
Interrogation (Soc.)
Jump pack (Athl.)
Leadership (Soc.)
Medtech (Ment.)
Navigation (Ment.)
Negotiation (also used for clan bidding) (Soc.)
Perception (Ment.)
Piloting (divided into subskills) (Phys.)
Protocol (Soc.)
Quickdraw (Phys.)
Running (Athl.)
Scrounge (Soc.)
Security Systems (Ment.)
Seduction (Soc.)
Small Arms (Phys.) 
Special Interests (divided into subskills) (Ment.)
Stealth (Phys.)
Strategy (Ment.)
Streetwise (Soc.)
Support Weapons (Phys.)
Survival  (Ment.)
Swimming (Athl.)
Tactics (used to determine initiative together with REF) (Ment.)
Technician (divided into subskills) (Ment.)
Throwing Weapons (Phys.)
Tinker (Ment.)
Tracking (Ment.)
Training (Soc.)
Unarmed Combat (Athl.)

The base skill target will be calculated by subtracting the skill level from the appropriate characteristic for the skill.
*Note - Again, High is good, as it translates into Low(good) stats after the subractions*
*Another Note - Gunnery(Mech) and Piloting(Mech) will be the two 'mech' stats you'll need, for gunnery and piloting respectively... But I don't want anybody with better than 2 in either their final Gunnery or Piloting skill when all is said and done.*

_Example 1A:

Yuri, with Build of 6 and Reflexes of 5 has an Athletics characteristic of 7+

Athletic ( 7+) (18-BLD-REF)

He also has an Unarmed Combat skill level of 1.

By subtracting this from the Athletics characteristic of 7+ we gain a base skill target of 6+ in Unarmed Combat, ie. barring any other special modifiers, he will hit an opponent with a punch by rolling 6+ on 2d6._

-ADVANTAGES-

Special abilities not covered by other points.

Examples (Cost):
Ambidexterous (1)
Combat Sense (2)
Exceptional Attribute (2)
Extra Edge (1 per)(Edge provides re-rolls; everyone starts with Edge:1)
Natural Apitude (2 non-combat skill; 3 combat skill) (Applied to one skill of choice, the PC may roll now 3d6 and take the best two)
Reputation 1
Sixth Sense (2)
Toughness (2)

(I took out all those that pertained to wealth/station as it wouldn't fit in with the Clans.  As I don't have a book i'm not sure what all these mean, though.. Most I can guess on my own, but Douane could you e-mail me a brief description of each of the above Advantages?


----------



## Jemal (Dec 8, 2003)

Oh yeah, and when your character's ready, post him/her here.  After all the chars are Done I'll open a rogues gallery and you can post both your character AND your mech there for reference.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 8, 2003)

...okay. Lot to take in...I'll keep looking it over. Methinks I've got it...


----------



## Douane (Dec 8, 2003)

Jemal,

please let me pipe in with some extras:

Nobody should be able to have 30 points in advantages or even only 21. My suggestion would be for the following combinations which echo the standard categories while allowing for the extra skill points you want to have:

*A* 30 points attributes, 27 points skills, 1 point advantages

*B* 30 points attributes, 21 points skills, 3 point advantages

*C* 27 points attributes, 30 points skills, 1 point advantages

*D* 27 points attributes, 21 points skills, 4 point advantages

*E* 21 points attributes, 30 points skills, 3 point advantages

*F* 21 points attributes, 27 points skills, 4 point advantages


To everyone here: 

If you need help with PC generation or have questions concerning the process above, let me know!


[BTW, here the YURI the example speaks about:

Yuri 

Clan Mechwarrior

Attributes Score 
Build BLD 6  
Reflexes REF 5 
Intuition INT 5 
Learn LRN 4  
Charisma CHA 5  


Characteristics 
Athletic ( 7+) (18-BLD-REF) 
Physical ( 8+) (18-REF-INT) 
Mental ( 9+) (18-INT-LRN) 
Social ( 8+) (18-INT-CHA) 


Miscellaneous 
Edge : 1 

Advantages
Reputation


Skill Charact. LVL Roll 
Gunnery/BattleMech (Phys.) 4 4+
Interrogation (Soc.) 1 7+
Leadership (Soc.) 1 7+
Medtech (Ment.) 1 8+
Negotiation (Soc.) 2 6+
Piloting/BattleMech (Phys.) 3 5+
Small Arms (Phys.) 2 6+
Special Interest: Clan Traditions (Ment.) 1 8+
Survival (Ment.) 1 8+
Tactics (Ment.) 2 7+
Tech/BattleMech (Ment.) 2 7+
Unarmed Combat (Athl.) 1 6+


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## doghead (Dec 9, 2003)

Got it, will get onto it this evening.


----------



## Jemal (Dec 9, 2003)

Whoopsies.. I see wher I messed up.. OK, consider this an newpostedit to the previous one.

[PROBLEM WAS: I wrote down the points you get for priorities 1, 3, and 4 (like I meant to), but didn't take into account I was just looking under the attributes section of the chart.. SO, here's how it NOW breaks down..]

You have 3 'priorities', lvl 1, lvl 3, and lvl 4. 

You assign each (Attributes, Skills, and Advantages) to a priority level (Higher means more points).  Here's how the points now break down, depending on which priorty you assign something.
Attributes or Skills- Lvl 1= 21 ; lvl 3= 27 ; lvl 4= 30
Advantages - Lvl 1= 1; lvl 3= 3; lvl 4= 4

There we go, better... (basically, it's the exact same as the A-F options that Douane posted.. They can all be formed by using this, and that's probly what he did.)

Ordinarily, Skills would be like this: Lvl 1= 15 ; lvl 3= 21 ; lvl 4= 24
BUT, I wanted you guys to have more skills, so they're now on the same lvl as Attributes.

Thnx for the quick catch, Douane.

Oh and to make sure we've got it down, I'm going to write up and post your superior, Star Colonel Jonas Ward.  He'll be in charge of the cluster you guys will be in.  Some of his will vary from the norm, but that's b/c he's more experienced than you... Which brings up another point.

Instead of Experience or anything, I'll be using a fairly 'loose' rule of thumb, the more you do something, the better you get at it.  So when I think your character is getting better at something, I'll tell you... If you specifically want to increase something, talk to me about it and we'll figure out how your character can 'excercise' that particular skill/attribute/whatever.


OH and finally, Douane.. Could you actually post a brief description here of what each of the advantages does, so everybody knows (including me.. *L* I gotta get down to the gamestore one of these days.)?  

PS, thnx again for all the help, Douane...
Dang it, I've said Douane too many times, and now I have to tell a joke. (sorry, it's a bad one)

Knock knock - who's there?
Douane - Douane who?
dwain the bath tub, I'm dwowning.


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## Douane (Dec 9, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> There we go, better... (basically, it's the exact same as the A-F options that Douane posted.. They can all be formed by using this, and that's probly what he did.)
> 
> Ordinarily, Skills would be like this: Lvl 1= 15 ; lvl 3= 21 ; lvl 4= 24
> BUT, I wanted you guys to have more skills, so they're now on the same lvl as Attributes.
> ...




No problem! 

Just wanted to avoid disappointing anyone who might have built a Pc with 10 natural apitudes in combat skills. 


Good call on the skills! We used to have a houserule that gave everyone +4 skill points.





> OH and finally, Douane.. Could you actually post a brief description here of what each of the advantages does, so everybody knows (including me.. *L* I gotta get down to the gamestore one of these days.)?
> 
> PS, thnx again for all the help, Douane...
> Dang it, I've said Douane too many times, and now I have to tell a joke. (sorry, it's a bad one)
> ...




* chuckle * 


Advantages will be forthcoming shortly. If anyone needs info quick, poke me via email (but gently, and please no pointed sticks!)  .


Folkert


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 9, 2003)

n/m


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 9, 2003)

Posting to get others' opinions and to make sure I did it right :

Kevin of Blood House Regner

*Attributes Score: (4th lvl)*
Build BLD 4
Reflexes REF 7
Intuition INT 6
Learn LRN 6
Charisma CHA 4

Characteristics: 
Athletic (7+) (18-BLD-REF) 
Physical (5+) (18-REF-INT) 
Mental (6+) (18-INT-LRN) 
Social (8+) (18-INT-CHA) 

Miscellaneous:
Edge: 1 

*Advantages: (3rd lvl)*
Combat Sense
Ambidexterous

*Skills: (1st lvl)*
Mental Skills:
communications 1/5+
demolitions 1/5+
perception 1/5+
tactics 1/5+
technician (mech) 1/5+
technician (weaponry) 2/4+
tinker 1/5+

Physical Skills:
acrobatics 1/4+
gunnery (mech) 2/3+
pilot (mech) 2/3+
quickdraw 1/4+
small arms 2/3+
stealth 1/4+


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## doghead (Dec 9, 2003)

Option D: 27 points attributes, 21 points skills, 4 point advantages

- ATTRIBUTES -

BLD 3
REF 6
INT 6
LRN 6
CHA 3

Athletic +9
Physical +6
Mental +6
Social +9

- SKILLS -

_Athletic_
Unarmed Combat 3/6+
_Physical_
Gunnery (Battlemech) 2/4+
Piloting (Battlemech) 2/4+
_Mental_
Perception 1/5+
Security Systems 1/5+
Special Interest: Inner Sphere 1/5+
Tactics (determines initiative with REF) 2/4+
_Social_
Seduction 2/7+

- ADVANTAGES -

Combat Sence (2)
Sixth Sence (2)
*Edge (1)

- NOTES -

Patterns. Its all in the patterns. Most patterns are easy. Obvious. In a battle. In a system. In a code. But in people, ah, there's the challenge.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 10, 2003)

> Originally Posted by *doghead*
> _Festy_Dog: Your character seems straight as far as I can tell. Looks like a bit of a gear head. Is that what you were aiming for?_




I just took what skills seemed to appeal, and he ended up as a gear head, so yeah.



> Originally Posted by *doghead*
> _*humm* Actually, you know, I have this idea for a gun in mind and ..._




I'm sure Kevin could do requests from his lancemates.


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## Douane (Dec 10, 2003)

"Requests?"

"You do not seem to have grasped the basics of the Way of the Clans despite our years in one sibko, Kevin. You build a gun I like, I challenge you to a trial of possession for it, beat the snot out of you and have a new gun to boot. Better embrace the proper way!"




I'm just working on a few comments from my perspective on your PCs. I will try explain them to the best of my abilities, but sometimes my long association doesn't let me see the forest because of all those damn trees, so please disregard anything you don't agree with or point out to me I'm talking/writing complete nonsense! 


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Dec 10, 2003)

I actually have no clue about anything when it comes to the mech warrior RPG, what I know about is battle-tech itself, so any help doing up the character would be greatly appreciated.

Cherish of Blood House Ward
Clan Mechwarrior

Attributes: (30) 
Build BLD 4 
Reflexes REF 7(6+1) 
Intuition INT 6(10/2+1= 6)
Learn LRN 4 
Charisma CHA 6 


Characteristics 
Athletic ( 7+) (18-BLD-REF) 
Physical ( 5+) (18-REF-INT) 
Mental ( 8+) (18-INT-LRN) 
Social ( 6+) (18-INT-CHA) 
Advantages: 1
Reputation (1)

Skills: 27
Acrobatics (Phys.) 2, 5+ 
Blade (Athl.) 1, 6+
Gunnery/BattleMech (Phys.) 3, 2+
Leadership (Soc.) 1, 5+
Music (Soc.) 1, 5+
Negotiation (Soc.) 1, 5+
Piloting/BattleMech (Phys.) 3, 2+
Quickdraw (Phys.) 1, 4+
Seduction (Soc.) 1, 5+
Small Arms (Phys.) 1 4+
Survival (Ment.) 1, 7+
Tactics (Ment.) 2, 6+
Unarmed Combat (Athl.) 1 +6


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## Douane (Dec 10, 2003)

First round of "critique"  :

Everyone's doing great, the mechanic side is (almost) perfectly covered.

*Doghead* and *Shalimar*, you've both spent one skill point too much.


However, *Shalimar* brought up an important point with her PC: I just checked what I wrote and discovered that I failed to properly address a special clan attribute issue:

"(Some special situations may allow for attributes exceeding this maximum, however.)"

Clan genetic breeding is one of these circumstances. The maxima for REF and INT are increased to 7 for Clan mechwarriors.


[Guess, Jemal willl now have a lot a of "REF 7" 'ers on his hands.  ]


(BTW, *Shalimar*, perhaps we should work a bit together on making our PCs a bit more different, what do you think?  [My reasons for choosing his specialities: I especially invented that SI: Clan Traditions skill to cover his background and took reputation to account for his prestigious Kerensky bloodname.])


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## Douane (Dec 10, 2003)

Another note on skills:

Everyone has seen so far, Mechwarrior 2nd Ed. is a rather simple system with a flaw: attributes seem to be far more important than skills.

There are some rules which try to balance this a bit:

1. In case of two characters who have both, for example, a 5+ on their tactics roll (one of them with a higher skill level but lower mental characteristic), the one with the higher skill level has an advantage if their rolls tie. He breaks such a situation in his own favour.

2. Some skills offer slightly more "oomph" at higher levels by giving its user some additional options or small bonus to other skills.


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## Shalimar (Dec 10, 2003)

I dropped the special interest Clantraditions, but the reason I had originally take it was that I had glanced through Mechwarrior Guid to the clans, and seen it was a bonus to all WOlf warriors in third edition, while I would not get it for free, I did still want a working knowledge of clan traditions etc.

I switched it for music, but I would still want to have a working knowledge of Clan traditons, Trial, and so forth.

I am not going to trade out Reputation though because out of the choices, it is the one that fits the most.  I gave it to her because, as part of her history she has already killed a Jade Falcon warrior during a training exercise and we still have not tested out yet.  I am going to embellsih that a bit to say that the Jade Falcon was in a larger mech, but it is the same result, she is a Ristar, marked already by her killing of a Jade Falcon, and her exceptional test scores.  She is expected to test out at the top of her Sibko, possibly killing multiple opponents for the coveted role of Star Commander, perhaps even taking three for Star Captain.


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## doghead (Dec 10, 2003)

Douane: The comments/observations are good as far as I am concerned. Can you tell us a little more about the trials (a la Q2) - they sound very melee orientated, meaning HTH combat skills will be important if you want to maintain your position/possesions.

Skills - little buggers just won't behave.

Shalimar: your character definately came to mind when I read the Ristar def in the glossary. From that point of view, I think Reputation seems appropriate.

I am assuming that all of use would be generally familiar with the basics of clan traditions, in the same way that we are all generally familier with the laws of our country.


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## doghead (Dec 10, 2003)

OK. Adjusted the skills. Bumped up my Small Arms so if Yuri takes my new gun, I can better shoot him with my old gun and get it back.


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## doghead (Dec 10, 2003)

Ahhh! Buggers are still wrong. OK Slash and burn. Bump Unarmed and dump Small Arms. Looks like I am going to have to shoot Yuri with my PPC to get the pistol back.


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## Douane (Dec 10, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I dropped the special interest Clantraditions, but the reason I had originally take it was that I had glanced through Mechwarrior Guid to the clans, and seen it was a bonus to all WOlf warriors in third edition, while I would not get it for free, I did still want a working knowledge of clan traditions etc.
> 
> I switched it for music, but I would still want to have a working knowledge of Clan traditons, Trial, and so forth.
> 
> I am not going to trade out Reputation though because out of the choices, it is the one that fits the most.  I gave it to her because, as part of her history she has already killed a Jade Falcon warrior during a training exercise and we still have not tested out yet.  I am going to embellsih that a bit to say that the Jade Falcon was in a larger mech, but it is the same result, she is a Ristar, marked already by her killing of a Jade Falcon, and her exceptional test scores.  She is expected to test out at the top of her Sibko, possibly killing multiple opponents for the coveted role of Star Commander, perhaps even taking three for Star Captain.




*Shalimar*,

please note that I said "we should work a bit together on making our PCs a bit more different", in no way I meant to demand that you simply change Cherish around while Yuri stays the same. That's why I gave the reasons for my decisions, to check whether there is a difference there in motivation, if not in the outcome. (And I really like the contrast between a reputation for simply a name and an earned one.  )


And as Doghead noted, everyone has a working knowledge of basic Clan traditons like the Trials, of course. In fact, no Clan NPC ever published for MW 2nd Ed. has had that skill. I invented it to cover the fact that while every Wolf Clan Warrior can quote from the Wolf Remembrance, few have ever truly read the original tracts by Nicholas Kerensky or bothered to learn something about the more obscure facts of Clan history.


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 10, 2003)

So, after falling into a short coma after working on a paper for 48 hours straight without sleep, I am now back again.

Expect more comments and, finally, the descriptions of the advantages soon.


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## Shalimar (Dec 10, 2003)

Yea, I see what you mean Duoane, the only thing I had to go by on this stuff was my Mechwarrior 3rd edition guide to the clans, and in that, each of the different clan's give their people a different bonus, wolves get two, and one of them is close to the skill you created, I figured that that was needed for knowledge of clan ways, since it is not, consider Cherish Fixed.

I lowered her Learn by 2 to 4, and bumped her Intuition up by 1 to get it to 6.  Because the cap on piloting and gunnery for mechs is a 2+ roll, I dropped my Gunnery to only 3 ranks freening up 4 points, 1 went to clearing up my over-expenditure, 3 went to buying tactics up to rank 3, and by dropping your special interest skill, I bought Seduction 1.


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## Douane (Dec 10, 2003)

Ah, yes, the affiliation boni of 3rd Ed. MW. Let it suffice to say that MW 3rd is a bit more "diverse" in its list of skills plus through the life path system a lot of such "2nd-degree" skills are mandatory/encouraged (plus you have lot of opportunities to have higher skills).

Just a note concerning your drop of learning:

LRN determines the actual rate of improvement of skills and such, thus Festy and Doghead will now gain new/more skills at 1.5x the rate both of us will do.


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 11, 2003)

*Doghead*,

to your questions:

1. "without computer, can he still use a computer as part of his cryptography/Security systems skill?"

In case of Cryptography it is actually assumed that you use a computer, so you can use it, but it won't give you any special boni. Security Systems, judging by its description, has nothing to do with computers.


2. "does the blade have any ritual/traditional role in clan warrior life?"

No. In fact, no weapons have such a role in general. Some clans may hold a special weapon in higher regard than others, but that's it.


3. "Can you tell us a little more about the trials - they sound very melee orientated, meaning HTH combat skills will be important if you want to maintain your position/possesions."

Trials may be decided by almost everything, depending on the bids of the participants, from a simple contest of skills to a shoot-out. HTH is only the lowest common denominator, and I've chosen my example above because HTH is Yuri's forte. Using a blade (or anything else) isn't really uncommon.

Special: The "Blade" skill of MW covers all kinds of melee weapons!


As for keeping your possessions: Clanners, especially those of the Warrior Caste, haven't got much in the way of private property. And why should they? The Clan provides everything you need, and anything else is just a luxury (or in more negative view, waste, which every clan abhors). Keeping a pet, some trophies of past battles or examples of your own art are generally acceptable, but even this will viewed with distaste by some.


Regarding maintaing your position: It's absolutely unthinkable for clanners to challenge your superior for his position. If Cherish becomes Star Commander, none of us others can challenge her for her position nor can she challenge our superior Star Captain for his. The only way to advance is via an annual Trial of Positions, during which you may "test up" (or down!). Unfortunately, these are usually suspended during the invasion, so you have to wait for your superior to buy the farm. (Of course, there's always a way around this and "despised" political methods are probably the best way to achieve such.)


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## Douane (Dec 11, 2003)

*ADVANTAGES*

Ambidextrous (1): The PC can use both hands equally well. (This does not give hum extra attacks.)

Combat Sense (2): The PC has a set of fighting instincts that usually keep him one step ahead of his opponents. He gains an extra +2 Initiative in personal combat or single mech combat. (The bonus of the tactics skill to initiative only applies in mech combat!)

Contact (1-3):	
1-point contact: No power and limited personal influence (for example, a warrior of a friendly clan)
2-point contact: small measure of power and influence in a limited area (f. e., renowned or highly-placed officer)
3-point contact: considerable power and influence (f. e., Bloodname House Keeper) 

Extra Edge (1 per): Edge determines the number of re-rolls the PC has per adventure.

Natural Apitude (2 non-combat/3 combat): The PC has a “knack” for one skill. (The PC may roll now 3d6 and take the best two on a skill check.)

Reputation (1): The PC is known far and wide for something that sets him apart from others in some way. He receives a -1 modifier on negotiation, seduction and streetwise rolls.

Sixth Sense (2): The PC has the ability to sense impending attacks, allowing him to react in a timely manner. He might also sense other approaching dangers, though he usually only receives a very general warning about them.

Toughness (2): The PC has a exceptional resistance to physical abuse. He makes Consciousness Rolls (both in personal combat and in Mech combat) with 3d6, using the best two. It might also help him withstand interrogation and such.

Well-connected (1-3):  The PC possesses a large number of friends and acquaintances and may use them as temporary contacts. The PC has a number of attempts (equal to the number of points spent on the advantage) to locate appropriate contacts per adventure. Area of influence:
1 point: a single planet
2 point: one clan
3 point: all clans 



So far for the stock ones. I've a few more we houseruled back then and will try to find them tomorrow. I've also some comments regarding some of the skill choices in the posted PCs and will post them then.

Folkert


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## Shalimar (Dec 11, 2003)

I would like to know everyone's thoughts on Cherish if you guys are up for it, she is my first Mechwarrior Character, and I would like some opinions.  Should I drop a bit of some skill to add another or what?


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## Douane (Dec 11, 2003)

So let me be the first then:

[Just as a preface: Everything of the following is based on the image of Cherish I've formed in my mind based on your description and the posted PC, it might not really mesh with what you had in mind.]


Judging from the PC, Cherish first priority is to be a first-class mechwarrior, second to none, using this to propel her ahead. Her ego seems to match this ("greatest warrior"). She is rather impulsive and has a good-sized streak of stubborness. 

Basing on her description, an Acrobatics skill of at least 1 might be useful, as she seems to be the most fit our whole bunch. (Acrobatics covers, among other, tumbling, jumping and evading.) Another skill you might want to take a level or two in could be Survival to cover those times in the wild (referring to her pets and the material of her flute). [Also comfirming her general attitude of perseverance.]

On the other hand, given her omewhat hot-headed and impatient approach to things, perhaps it would be fitting to reduce Tactics a bit and improve Leadership instead. (Her 'leading-by-example' style should mesh well with most Clan Warriors' attitudes.) 

Tying into this aspect, perhaps you should consider to get rid of the level of Negotiation. Cherish doesn't strike me as someone who bides her time and tries to goad her opponent into a bad bid, I rather see her in the vein of the Black Widow ("Give me your best bid, no matter what, and I'll rip it (and you) into shreds!") Given her "flaws" she might even overextend herself just to win the bid and fight, relying on her own formidable abilities to pull a victory through. 

So a level in Blade could be in order, just to cover her bases in case her opponent gets some strange ideas. Also fitting might be a Special interest: Clan Jade Falcon as she seems to have tangled with them quite a bit. (After all, they did merit a tattoo.  )


[BTW, to me Cherish seems to be a fitting candidate for an EI implant.]


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Dec 11, 2003)

IE implant?

oh, and what else is left to be done, I am pretty excited about our trials of position, I just ran a few mega-mek battles in the style of of Clan Wolf's trials of Position, and killed 3 mechs with her, using 2/2 as her gunnery/piloting according to her skills.  I could probably have kept going, it will be interesting to see who turns out as what as far as the trials, she is without a doubt, going by the stats, the best mech pilot, but outside of a  mech, you could all take her, so I expect any trials we fight against each other to probably be unaugmented.


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## Douane (Dec 11, 2003)

EI = Enhanced Imaging Neural Implant (Kind of a Cyberpunk Vehicle link, it connects the user's neural system directly to mech, increasing his abilities with a mech considerably.)


What kind of setup (Mechs and pilot skills) did you use with Megamek?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 11, 2003)

You've already got a full star, but you did mention that you might accept additional characters in other chassis.  Got room for an Elemental?  I'm new to the RPG system, but I'm familiar with the basics of Mechwarrior tech and culture, and learn quickly.


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## Shalimar (Dec 11, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> EI = Enhanced Imaging Neural Implant (Kind of a Cyberpunk Vehicle link, it connects the user's neural system directly to mech, increasing his abilities with a mech considerably.)
> 
> 
> What kind of setup (Mechs and pilot skills) did you use with Megamek?



I went with what was presented in the third book of Blood of Kerensky, I took a Direwolf, and my opponents were a Timber Wolf, then a War Hawk, then an Executioner, and since my Direwolf was still able to fight, I went for a black Widow, I added 3 more to my opponents, A king Fisher, a Gargoyal, and a Summoner.  At 2/2 she ended up killing all but the summoner, and that only because she had already taken on 4 Assaults and a Heavy.  Mega-mek has a nice option where you can save any mech that survives the battle, and it retains its damage, lack of Ammo, and any hits on the pilot, so thats what I did.  If a warrior to -be pulled that off they would get a Galaxy at the very least, and they would be on the fast track to a blood-name and being Khan.  The testing mechs were set at 3/4 for their gunnery and piloting, I believe that is what they are suppoused to be for average clan warriors according to a few scenario packs.  I just went with Cheris's actuall skill level.

(The Wolf Method is to put the candidate into whatever assault they wish, and have them face a heavy, followed by a low-end Assault, and finally a high-end assault, but all 3 mechs are of lower tonnage.)


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## Douane (Dec 11, 2003)

Ah, the traditional Wolf Clan cheating. 

An impressive feat!


One thing though, with MW the average clan mechwarrior should be 2/3, perhaps even better, because not all warriors participating on the other side are bound to be only average. (Because MW makes it so easy to crank the skill levels higher.)


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## Shalimar (Dec 11, 2003)

By that logic, every other pilot in the star sucks Duoane.

Cherish 2/2
Yuri 4/5
Kevin 3/3
Tarnish 4/4
Jyrek ?/? (Not posted yet)

Yuri is only as good as the average IS pilot, he isn not even up to the standards of the the Freebirth Dragoons.

Kevin is ok as far as piloting, but his gunnery is worse then the average clan pilot

Tarnish is only slighty better in piloting then Yuri, but his gunnery abilites are that of a freebirth.

Do you see what I mean?  If the average clan warrior is 2/3, then you guys would simply fail to test out unless you got incredibly lucky.  So I am pretty convinced that the average clanner is 3/4, about equal with some of the more Elite IS forces.  Only Unique pilots like Kai Allard are any better then that.


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## Douane (Dec 11, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> By that logic, every other pilot in the star sucks Duoane.
> 
> Cherish 2/2
> Yuri 4/5
> ...




First thing, Yuri does suck indeed in mech combat, that's the way I envisioned him. 

In regard to Doghead and Festy's PCs as well as Yuri and their skills, after all we are just supposed to be a star. What would we do if all of test out as Star Commanders or Captains? 


Next, you overlooked one thing: The average clanner doesn't come fresh from the sibko, he is already a seasoned warrior (above what the sibko training provides).

If the average front-line warrior with some years of experience would rate only a 3/4, it would probably be impossible for Cherish to have a 2/2 to start with. You are right, of course, that several sourcebooks give 3/4 to "average" clan pilots. But then, most of them assign only 1/2 to the very best of the clans, the elite pilots. (Using the MW RPG enables you to start with much higher scores than the tabletop game due to its inherent generosity, but the average pilot profits from this bonus also.)


The 3/4 should be applied as a standard for those fresh out of training, otherwise what would the true elite pilots, the very best of the clans, many of them blood-named and sharpened by years of combat against varying opponents, have? Just 1/2, a little bit better than Cherish comes out of the sibko? (If they started out the same as Cherish - and why shouldn't they? -, that's not really much of an improvement for all they have gone through, isn't it?)


Regarding "some of the more Elite IS forces", the standard for IS Elite is 2/3, with some vastly superior. (Morgan Kell -1/-1)


Still, our discussion might be a bit of a moot point. Jemal has to decide what fits his intentions and plans and he has already stated that doesn't really feel bound by "canon evidence". So both of us might be in for a big surprise.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 15, 2003)

*bump*


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## Douane (Dec 15, 2003)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> *bump*





Ok, but you started it!  (Was going to delay til I've slept a few hours, but ...)


Regarding Kevin's skill choices:

I would seriously reconsider the Engineering skill. In BT it is the "high/abstract"  skill of designing equipment of all kinds, something that isn't taught to warriors. (After all that's what the scientist caste is for.)

Strategy is also a skill not taught to clan Mechwarriors due to the nature of clan warfare (ie. minimizing conflicts [and therefore losses, too] through bidding). In fact, many higher-ups in the clan military are also seriously lacking sin this department. It covers higher levels of conflict like multiple world-assault few clanners will ever see (And then only in the IS. Such methods are not! used in Clan space.).

Instead of SI: Weaponsmith you could take Technician: Weaponry which covers Mech and personal weapons alike. ("Tinker" would cover modifications of standard equipment.)

Another fitting skill for Kevin might be "Acrobatics", given his like of outmaneuvering opponents. (Acrobatics covers, among others, tumbling, jumping and evading.) 


Just some food for your thoughts! 

Folkert


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## Shalimar (Dec 15, 2003)

With that much time spent on the activities of our lessers its  a wonder that you will succeed in testing out Kevin, perhaps you would like to join the technichian caste quiaff?


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 15, 2003)

"Neg, Cherish. I'm a mech pilot through and through, I just use my head more than you do," Kevin says with a cheeky grin.

Thx for the advice Douane. 

Ok, character's been tinkered with, hope he's a bit better than before.


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## Jemal (Dec 16, 2003)

Paxus - Sure, make up a character And I'll put you in charge of a star of Elementals that will be travelling with this sibko.

Everyone else - How's things going?

Shal - Cherish scares me.  

BTW, for the tests, you'll each be piloting the mech you've personally shown an aptitude in (IE the mech you designed for your characters), and I'll figure out what to send you against.


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## doghead (Dec 16, 2003)

Roger. I mean Wilco. 

**No thats not either ... humm, Quipp? Quaff? Flip flop? A little bida hiphop. Oh behave! Ah sorry, I'll go look for that glossary shall I, um yes er, .. right, thats what I do ... don't mind me ...**


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 16, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Paxus - Sure, make up a character And I'll put you in charge of a star of Elementals that will be travelling with this sibko.




Aff.

Abilities:  Priority 1
BLD 8 (6 points)
REF 7 (6 points, +1 Clan)
INT 4  (8 points)
LRN  3  (3 points)
CHA 3 (4 points)

Athletic 3+
Physical 7+
Mental 11+
Social 11+

Skills: Priority 2

Gunnery (Elemental) 10 points  3+
Blade 1 point                        2+
Leadership 3 points               9+
Perception 1 points               10+
Piloting (Elemental) 6 points   4+
Special Interest: Remembrance 1 point 10+
Tactics 1 point                    10+
Unarmed Combat 1 point         2+

Advantages:  Priority 3
Extra Edge
Total Edge 2

At 8'3, with shoulders broad enough to carry two full-grown mechwarriors, Carson of Bloodhouse Shaw has been described as "a landslide that walks."  He is mercurial in temperament, laughing at every joke and drawing steel at any insult.  He seems to lack true ambition, fighting, leading, and serving the Clan more for the sheer enjoyment of it than any desire for advancement, but he succeeds nevertheless.  The only thing he takes seriously is the Remembrance, of which he has painstakingly etched long passages into his Elemental.


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## Douane (Dec 16, 2003)

> First, I'm assuming that Elementals get the same bonuses that Mechwarriors do; is that correct?




Aha, I hear my cue! 

Actually, Elementals are created differently. Here are your choices:


*A* 27 points attributes, 24 points skills, 1 point advantages

*B* 27 points attributes, 21 points skills, 2 point advantages

*C* 24 points attributes, 27 points skills, 1 point advantages

*D* 24 points attributes, 21 points skills, 3 point advantages

*E* 21 points attributes, 27 points skills, 2 point advantages

*F* 21 points attributes, 24 points skills, 3 point advantages


In addition, Clan Elementals get: +2 BLD, +1 REF, -1 CHA plus the free advantage 'Toughness'.


A little bit of further advice:

Make him Carson of House Shaw, as he is probably not bloodnamed yet. 

Second, at 6'8'', he's rather small for an elemental who range from 6'8'' to 8'4'' with something like 7'8'' being the average.

Skillwise, an elemental Star Commander is almost like a Mechwarrior Star Captain (due to one 'point' being equal to one 'mech or five elementals), so should have a few points in leadership and tactics.


If you have any further open questions, just email me. (email's in the profile)

Oh, and welcome to the game! 


Folkert


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 16, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> Aha, I hear my cue!
> 
> Actually, Elementals are created differently. Here are your choices:
> profile)
> ...




GAAHH!  My careful planning, ruined!  I'll have a new character up in a couple hours at most; I've got some holiday posting to get done.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 16, 2003)

Does Mechworks include Elementals?  If not, is there only one configuration, or will I need to find some other book or program to write mine up?


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## Douane (Dec 16, 2003)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Does Mechworks include Elementals?  If not, is there only one configuration, or will I need to find some other book or program to write mine up?





You are aware of the nature of an elemental suit?

Just in case, if not: It's basically a a 9' suit of powered armor. It's only customizability (?) lies in it's choice of a primary weapon in addition to it's SRM-2 with two loads: You can either choose a small laser, a flamer or an MG.


I'll try to come up with a picture and some descriptive text.


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 16, 2003)

And here it is:

Mass: 1000 kg
Chassis: Elemental Standard
Height: 2,7 meters
Cruising Speed: 12 kph
Jump Jets: Elemental Standard
          Jump Capacity: 90 meters
Armor: Asphestos Elemental Standard
Armament:
          1 Compact SRM 2
             and
          1 Small Laser
             or
          1 Machine Gun
             or
          1 Flamer
Manufacturer: Various
Communications System: Unknown
Targeting and Tracking System: Unknown

Overview:
        It was in 2842 that Clan Goliath Scorpion created a simple fully incased armored exoskeleton. These suit dubbed water elementals by there civilian class pilots, were originally designed as an efficient way to dig out the vast underwater ore deposits on the planet Dagda. Clan wolf immediately noticed the amazing military potential of this armor. Rather than give away their plans to Clan Goliath Scorpion by acquiring the suits in a trial of possession, Clan Wolf instructed their merchant caste to purchase some of the suits for a moderate price. The secret development of several mission specific suits ensued. After years of development Wolf scientists created a single multi-purpose suit dubbed the Elemental. In 2868 the Elemental was introduced to the clans in a trial of possession against Clan Nova Cat. Two stars of this new armor made a humiliating defeat against the one star of light mechs the Cats offered. The Cats Beta Galaxy, now Delta Galaxy, to this day continue to practice exhaustively with anti-infantry tactics, refuse to use elementals, and still bear their crest of a timberwolf crushing an Elemental beneath its foot. The suit immediately became the new standard in Clan infantry. In 2870, Clan Hell's Horses made an exchange for Clan Wolf's new battle armor in exchange for their solution to their inability to acquire the suit through trials. This was a genetically altered infantry trooper with superior strength and size. Later that year the Clan began fielding the new Elemental pilots. It is with these two advances that made the Elemental as effective a weapon as it is. In fact, the Elemental was considered such an important advancement that future Omnimechs were built with the Elemental in mind.


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## doghead (Dec 17, 2003)

I'd go with the MG, but thats just me. I like guns that go BANG! If I had taken the Heli pilot, I could have flown you, but now you will have to walk. 

Welcome aboard.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> I'd go with the MG, but thats just me. I like guns that go BANG! If I had taken the Heli pilot, I could have flown you, but now you will have to walk.
> 
> Welcome aboard.




If I recall correctly, the laser has better range, and not noticeably lower damage.  Plus, it doesn't have an ammo constraint, so it's a better backup weapon for when the SRM2 runs out.  Incidentally, how much ammunition does the Elemental carry for the missile launcher?


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## Douane (Dec 17, 2003)

Well, by the pure game mechanics the small laser is "best" weapon, but where's the fun in always choosing the most effective way? 

[And I should really know after 13 RL (40 in-game years) years of piloting a Marauder.  ]


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 17, 2003)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> If I recall correctly, the laser has better range, and not noticeably lower damage.  Plus, it doesn't have an ammo constraint, so it's a better backup weapon for when the SRM2 runs out.  Incidentally, how much ammunition does the Elemental carry for the missile launcher?




[Edit: Actually the small laser has better damage (3 vs 2 MG vs 2 Flamer), but the BT range is the same for all weapons (1 short 2 medium 3 long).]

Four missiles: 2 in the launchers, plus one full reload.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> [Edit: Actually the small laser has better damage (3 vs 2 MG vs 2 Flamer), but the BT range is the same for all weapons (1 short 2 medium 3 long).]
> 
> Four missiles: 2 in the launchers, plus one full reload.




4?  That's all?  Can that take out a single mech, even with headshots?


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## Jemal (Dec 17, 2003)

With headshots, yes.  The power of elementals is not single combat though.  It's that they travel in groups (points) of 5 elementals each.  Your star will have a total of 25 elementals.


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## Douane (Dec 17, 2003)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> 4?  That's all?  Can that take out a single mech, even with headshots?




The rockets alone might not, but you still got your primary weapon, right? 

Besides an Elemental does not engage a mech alone: I mentioned the "point" system, 5 Elementals are one point as is one battlemech, so these 5 will engage a mech together under the rules of Zellbrigen. However, that's about it, no swarming by your star (= 5 points = 25 elementals).


[Edit: Too slow!]


Folkert


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## Shalimar (Dec 17, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> I'd go with the MG, but thats just me. I like guns that go BANG! If I had taken the Heli pilot, I could have flown you, but now you will have to walk.
> 
> Welcome aboard.



Neg, Our omni-mechs each have hand-holds for carrying points of elementals securely and speedily. Although it will take two full Stars of Omnis to carry a star of Elementals securely.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Neg, Our omni-mechs each have hand-holds for carrying points of elementals securely and speedily. Although it will take two full Stars of Omnis to carry a star of Elementals securely.




That _is_ handy, quiaff?  So "Welcome aboard" isn't just a figure of speech.


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## doghead (Dec 17, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Neg, Our omni-mechs each have hand-holds for carrying points of elementals securely and speedily. Although it will take two full Stars of Omnis to carry a star of Elementals securely.



 Wheeeee! That would be some ride, particularly if the mech Jumps!

Welcome aboard indeed. 

I think that with good cover (in urban enviroments particularly), an elemental star would give a mech one a run for their money.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> Wheeeee! That would be some ride, particularly if the mech Jumps!




We've got Jump Jets too.  Sort of a two-stage effect, if the Elementals Jump off at the apex of the Mech's Jump.


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## Douane (Dec 17, 2003)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> That _is_ handy, quiaff?  So "Welcome aboard" isn't just a figure of speech.




I agree. It is quite good to have the additional armor Elementals provide. Instead of my torso armor, "Pop!", there goes an Elemental. 



> I think that with good cover (in urban enviroments particularly), an elemental star would give a mech one a run for their money.




Of course, is it inconceivable that such a breach of Zellbrigen would ever occur, quiaff? Just imagine this, a star of elementals engaging a point of mechs. Shocking! Sounds almost like an Inner Sphere barbarian tactic to me.


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## Douane (Dec 17, 2003)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> [...]his father's mother was _abtakha_ from Clan Ghost Bear, and he knows both clans' poems.




Surely you meant to say "the female genetic donor of your own male genetic donor", quiaff?

Or has the elemental part of the Warrior caste done the unthinkaable and returned to the filthy Inner Sphere ways of ..., what was the word again, ah, yes ... "families"?


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> Surely you meant to say "the female genetic donor of your own male genetic donor", quiaff?
> 
> Or has the elemental part of the Warrior caste done the unthinkaable and returned to the filthy Inner Sphere ways of ..., what was the word again, ah, yes ... "families"?




Speaking out of character, I realize that the Clans consider freeborn to be second-class citizens, but they're also very meritocratic.  Is it possible for a freebirth to enter the warrior caste?


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## Jemal (Dec 17, 2003)

Possible, yes, especially in the Wolf clan, which is much more tolerant of freebirth warriors.  However they're still considered very lowly, and freebirth units are usually bid away.  And, I don't think a freebirth warrior would be able to top 8'.. The huge size of elementals is due mostly to their geneticly engineered-ness.

Also, they're constantly having to prove themselves, sometimes in nearly suicidal missions, just for the honour of staying warriors... ALthough the upside to that is that very seldom do freebirth clan warriors have to face the dreaded dishonour of death by old age.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

Jemal said:
			
		

> And, I don't think a freebirth warrior would be able to top 8'.. The huge size of elementals is due mostly to their geneticly engineered-ness.




As I understand it, "freebirth" means that one was conceived in the natural fashion.  If both parents are Elementals, their kid is going to be of Elemental stature, quiaff?


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## Shalimar (Dec 17, 2003)

Yes, but Elementals are even more fanatical about the breeding program, so to have a pair of True-Born Elementals flout the traditions like that would be unheard of.

Actually, Why don't you just take the 5th mechwarrior slot since Ankh Morpak Gaurd seems to have gone bye bye.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 17, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Actually, Why don't you just take the 5th mechwarrior slot since Ankh Morpak Gaurd seems to have gone bye bye.




If he's well and truly gone, I could, but with one caveat:  I leave town in less than an hour, so I won't be on hand for the trials.  I can re-post my original concept, and Jemal can NPC him if necessary.


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## Douane (Dec 17, 2003)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> As I understand it, "freebirth" means that one was conceived in the natural fashion.  If both parents are Elementals, their kid is going to be of Elemental stature, quiaff?




Stature might be, but game-mechanics wise a freeborn would not gain the phenotype boni of a trueborn which are reserved only for the carefully engineered, not for "accidentally" conceived children (not even of two true-borns). [Though they would get other things to make up for that!]

Also you would not be able to earn a bloodname, as the trick a let a freeborn do so was invented only because of political necessity.

BTW, Clan Wolf has indeed an freeborn Elemental Star Commander in the Gurbeng Garrison Cluster, the 6' something Jodi whose former occupation was as a child laborer in a mining pit.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Dec 18, 2003)

Sorry guys, but I think I'm going to have to pull out of this one. Real life's getting a bit hectic at the moment, and I can only handle so many games. Have fun!


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## doghead (Dec 18, 2003)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Yes, but Elementals are even more fanatical about the breeding program, so to have a pair of True-Born Elementals flout the traditions like that would be unheard of.




Romeo and Juliet.


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## Douane (Dec 18, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> Romeo and Juliet.




But that would be un-clanlike, quiaff? We have ventured far from the corrupted nature and concepts of the IS, "love" being one of them. What place has it got in our society? None! Not even the lower castes practise this strange doing anymore.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 18, 2003)

"What's this? Intimate relationships? Ha! They only get in the way in the end. All I need are loyal comrades, a working mech, and a glorious death," Kevin sits back and folds his arms.


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## Douane (Dec 18, 2003)

"An interesting perspective, Kevin. However, some of us might be longing for a bit more longevity than that and will thus not fold before they have gained what will be rightfully theirs. Cherish is surely bound to feel similar. Just ask her when she finally gets out of that simulator where she seems to be living these days.

Oh, and by the way, Kevin, watch your language. To quote our venerable Loremaster: 'Only someone wishing to deliberately scorn the language and shock the listener would use contractions.' Remember that."


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## Shalimar (Dec 18, 2003)

Double post


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## Shalimar (Dec 18, 2003)

Cherish wipes her forehead with the back of her arm, dressed only in a tight white t-shirt, and a pair of equally tigh shorts, she was quite a lovely sight as she finally climbed down from the cockpit of her Hell-bringer.  She rubbed its chest affectionately as she made her way down the ladder, pausing to examine pitts, and tears in the armor from the live fire exercise she had just participated in.  While the energy weapons power had been dialed back to 3% of maximum, they had still left a good scar as a remind of her successes, and her eventual loss. Even the projectile weapons had been weakened, but again, their was still some risk in the exercise, which was the point of the Wolves trained, a simulator could never match the feel of even a weakened power combat, hence their rare if ever appearance among the clans.

Leaping from the ladder at about the 4 meter mark, she tucked herself into a dazzalingly athletic forward roll, and came easily to her feet.  She patted her mechs leg warmly, "If the last training seesion was an indication, then I shall test out at the top of the Sibko."  Cherish boasts before turning to Kevin and what she heard as she was dismounting.

"You also need an education Kevin, you are talking like a freebirth, using contractions like that."  Cherish says with a shudder at the butchery Kevin is making of the language.  "Yuri is quite correct, no sibkin of mine is going to fall so far as that, I would make them see the right of the matter in a circle of equals before the sickness had progressed that far."  the female warrior said strutting seductively, as she paced, intending to catch Yuri's eye and show her obviously confused sibkin the clan way of doing things.  "I would couple with you tonight Yuri." she said, intending to make her siblings understand by her rather brazen example.

(Actually, by clan standards there is nothing brazen about going up to a complete stranger and telling them you wish to couple with them, it is seen as the norm, there is absolutely no big deal about sex.  It is just to comfort one of your closest friends, or to take pleasure in their company, there is no deeper meaning)


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## doghead (Dec 18, 2003)

To reduce it to "Romeo and Juliet is just a "love" story, and as there is no "love" in the clans the story is irrelevent" is rather to miss the point, i think.

Of course, Tarnish, as a genetically engineered uber-human, doesn't care either way. Fancy a shag?


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 18, 2003)

[ooc: Forgive my asking, but where was the contraction? ]



			
				Shalimar said:
			
		

> "You also need an education Kevin, you are talking like a freebirth, using contractions like that."




Kevin raises an eyebrow, waiting till Cherish has made her request to Yuri.

"I thank you for pointing out my mistake and ask you to forgive my slip of the tongue," he adds politely, then says a little more sternly, "But I request that you not tell me what I may or may not need."


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## Shalimar (Dec 18, 2003)

(The contraction was What's, in clan society it would be, What is.)

Cherish arched her eye-brows at Kevin's request, she could not bring herself to believe that her sibkin had just 'asked' her what he had. "You know the Clan way Kevin, you know what options you have availible, deal with it." she said sternly, angry with him for interrupting before she had gotten Yuri's response. She turned back to Yuri waiting for his answer, turning away from Kevin as if the matter was resolved.


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## Douane (Dec 19, 2003)

Yuri eyes Cherish speculatively:

"It has been quite some time since you last could tear yourself away from the cockpit for such things. But yes, I would like that, too.

As to your continual training, it might very well come in handy soon, if some of the rumours I have heard are accurate. It seems the Smoke Jaguars are up to something."


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## Douane (Dec 19, 2003)

_[OoC:  ]_


*Doghead*,

a few words on your PC if you don't mind?


While I realize the intent of the Unarmed Combat 3, especially in light of our discussion the nature of trials, perhaps the points for the third level would be better spent on Gunnery/BM? (Level 2 of unarmed Combat already gives you the ability to use improvised weapons without any malus, rather fitting for Tarnish, don't you think so?  )

Regarding Cryptography and Security Systems, these are both skills that are simply not taught to warriors (especially not the dishonorable second!) so I assume you learned them when you sneaked into the technician quarters. [Wonders what Tarnish's true reasons for doing so were. Looks at Seduction skill, oohhh!  ]

Another point would be concerning this very seduction skill: As seen in Shalimar's post, sex is rather casual among the clan warriors with no exceptional meaning attached to it. (Quotes form the canon: "Intimate physical contact is a sign of affection, [but] it does not with it emotional baggage that it does in ours." (Spoken from a Inner Sphere point-of-view) and "Sexual activity between the members of a sibko is considered as normal as you watching out for your sister.") Of course, it might still be useful even under these circumstances and there always the lower castes, where you seem to be spending a good amount of your free time.  (Though this might be looked down upon by other warriors somewhat.)

[BTW, the only way to make Tarnish even more hated by Yuri would be to choose the Jorgensson bloodline instead of the Conners one.  ]


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 19, 2003)

_[OoC_




			
				doghead said:
			
		

> To reduce it to "Romeo and Juliet is just a "love" story, and as there is no "love" in the clans the story is irrelevent" is rather to miss the point, i think.
> 
> Of course, Tarnish, as a genetically engineered uber-human, doesn't care either way. Fancy a shag?




It's been some time since I last read that play, but in my opionion the setting and society background (GB in the late 16th century or Verona in the late middle ages) is radically different from that of the clans.

While I do not deny that love is possible with the Warrior Caste and bound to be in existance somewhere as a special "relationship"; actually producing a child is a step further and something the warriors are conditioned against from the very start. 
(Again from the Canon: "But the naked words _father_ and _mother_ were so obscene that they were not uttered even as curses." and "Just the thought of being a parent makes me uneasy. The mere words relating to natural birth make me uncomfortable." and "The warriors of the Clans regard parenthood and the terms related to it as near-obsceneties.")

So while the two elementals might actually enjoy something akin to "love", actually parenting a child would be a much greater step to take. Also, it might very well be deemed "deviant" behaviour by the clans (and therefore by a society which brooks no "deviants" and is quick to deal with them).

The last hurdle to cross would be the adoption of such a "product" of "deviant behaviour" into the warrior caste as it would continually remind everyone of this shameful event.


So, in conclusion it would be an extremely strange (and rare) event (a freeborn child to two elementals entering the warrior caste and od service on the frontline) to actually take place, and even if it did, it would carry an enormous stigma with it.


Folkert


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## Douane (Dec 19, 2003)

_[OoC_

I have a free weekend ahead of me, so in case there are any specific questions regarding the Clans, please post them!

I've already Doghead's request to elaborate a bit on the trials, so I'll try to cover that. Anything else?


Folkert


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 19, 2003)

Douane, could I trouble you for a bit of information on how clanners interact? I don't want Kevin coming across wrongly because of my lack of knowledge. 



			
				Shalimar said:
			
		

> She turned back to Yuri waiting for his answer, turning away from Kevin as if the matter was resolved.




Kevin sits back again, and strums his fingers quietly on his knee, smiling to himself.


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## Douane (Dec 19, 2003)

_[OoC_




			
				Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> Douane, could I trouble you for a bit of information on how clanners interact? I don't want Kevin coming across wrongly because of my lack of knowledge.





Aargh, that a rather broad topic, isn't it? 

 I assume you are mainly interested in the warrior caste, besides the other castes were never really fleshed out.

Regarding the origins of our PCs: While they were raised for the last 20 years (or should that be the first 20 years?) together and have thus developed certain bonds and closeness, it doesn't necessarily mean that you like everyone. (Yuri despises Tarnish just because of his genetic origins.) Sexual freedom should be covered by now , and what Shalimar referred to by "You know the Clan way Kevin, you know what options you have availible, deal with it." is that the live of Clan warriors is governed by the different trials. Feel mortally insulted, just challenge Cherish to Trial of Grievance. Though you shouldn't do because of the very credo of the Clans, the abhorrence of waste. (In this way it would be waste to fight Cherish over a simple admonishment.) Another point would be the finality of trials. After the trial (of refusal, grievance or whatever) every participant is supposed to let matter slide because it was just dealt with in the proper clan way. There shouldn't be any bad feelings left. (Yeah, right.  ) This ideal ties into the honorable conduct expected of (and drilled into) Clan warriors. (Even if everyone else fails, you will hold up the proud traditions of the Clans to your end, quiaff?)

Another point: The Clans are a militaristic society, an aspect that permeates their entire system, caste structures and all. The higher castes may order everyone of the lower castes and can expect obedience. The same goes for their rank structures: The Star Commander (and so on) orders and everyone beneath him obeys. You may give advice or hints or protest, but you are bound to fulfill that order in the end. Your only way out would be a trial of refusal.

One of the most important tendendy or motive among the clans (especially the warriors) is an almost complete disdain for the barbarians of the Inner Sphere (owing to their origins). Their society is inferior, their warriors and their tech. Besides their inferiority they also lack honor.


Just a short outlook so far. I'll try to come up with some basic outlines and standards, though. Any other specific questions?

As a question: Some years ago, when I actively recruited BT players to play (and there still was interest 'round here  ), I did a short "Clan Primer". While it doesn't cover any specific cases, it was more of general overview concerning the history of the clans. If there is interest I would look for it and post it once found.


Folkert


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## doghead (Dec 19, 2003)

I do want to note that so far, nothing I have said has been IC for Tarnish. I still haven't worked out how he is IC. The notions of Honour and Disciplin are attractive ones, but there is an element of intolerance and fanaticism that is a little disconcerting. To me. How Tarnish feels I am not sure. Perhaps he will not be sure either. Or perhaps he doesn't see it. The IC exchanges are very useful.


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## doghead (Dec 19, 2003)

PS. Douane: why would the Jorgensson name be more abhorant to Yuri?


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## doghead (Dec 19, 2003)

A heads up: I am going to be gone from the 26th until the end of the year. I probably won't be able to check in during that time.


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## Douane (Dec 20, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> PS. Douane: why would the Jorgensson name be more abhorant to Yuri?





Sorry!

In 2825 the clans Wolf and Widowmaker faced each other in a Trial of Refusal the Widowmakers had called against the Grand Council's decision that they should be absorbed. The Wolves defended the decision of the Council. The IlKhan Nicholas Kerensky and the Khans of the Grand Council would observe the trial to ensure that the proper rules would be upheld.
 During this fight Khan Jerome Winson of Clan Wolf and Khan Cal Jorgensson declared a mutual Trial of Grievance and met in Circle of Equals. When Wolf Khan Winson was close to disabling his enemy’s mech, a star of Widowmaker mechs jumped broke into the Circle and attacked him. The IlKhan and the other Khans moved to defend Winson from this cowardly act, but in the ensuing melee a laser shot fired by Cal Jorgensson’s mech hit the cockpit of the IlKhan’s mech and killed Nicholas Kerensky.
 Upon this the Wolves went beserk and attacked their enemy in full force, killing almost all of the warriors of the Widowmaker Clan and capturing the rest; all of it’s other assets were then claimed/absorbed by the Wolf Clan.


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## doghead (Dec 20, 2003)

Ah. I do remember the story about how the IlKhan died, but didn't put the name to it.


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## Douane (Dec 21, 2003)

Well, at least it is nothing personal, just matter of your genes! 

I figured that this attitude would make sense for a proud Kerensky, but if you are uncomfortable with it, I will kick it out.


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## Douane (Dec 21, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> I do want to note that so far, nothing I have said has been IC for Tarnish. I still haven't worked out how he is IC. The notions of Honour and Disciplin are attractive ones, but there is *an element of intolerance and fanaticism* that is a little disconcerting. To me. How Tarnish feels I am not sure. Perhaps he will not be sure either. Or perhaps he doesn't see it. The IC exchanges are very useful.




Well, you've the nail on the head here. This is not just an element, but the underlying basis of everything Clan. Due to their peculiar origins and society structure this permeates everything, but comes into full bloom within the Warrior caste. Nicholas Kerensky violently slashed any connections to the "old" way of living when he established the Clans, a form of society he deemed better and "higher" than anything else. He abolished almost all former ties to create what is essentially a warrior brotherhood with "some" support elements.

The strict caste structure does elevate the warriors above all others and the continual reminder that they were driven out of the IS and then out of the Pentagon worlds (and their subsequent re-conquest) reinforces the intolerance for everything non-Clan. 

The Trials (as the highest body of laws among the Clans) also serve two-fold purposes: They were aimed at having descisions influenced not by political powergames (ie. what drove them from the Inner Sphere), but only by pure fighting prowess, the mark of the true warrior. The Clan honor system should have ensured that these ways are neither diluted or misused, but are clearly not always successful. The society as a whole, though, still holds them to these ideals and punishments for miscreants are swift and devoid of mercy.
Secondly, the trials also enforce the continued and (mostly) undamaged existence of this society. The Merchants/Techs/Laborers dislike their role in this structure? Bad luck for them. They cannot challenge anyone of the Warrior caste (or it as whole) to any trials, and even if they could, they have no training at all (exept for the existence of a few down-tested warriors) and other options in this vein like a violent uprising are out, because they have no weapons. Also they hold no political sway and nothing, in fact they have no say at all regarding the decisions made for the Clan, except in what way to actually fulfill the demands of the warrior caste.


The fact that most clanners are however content with this shows that the constant indoctrination over the last two-hundred years was rather successful. All of this easily leads to intolerance and fanaticism, in fact it even encourages these particular states of mind.



Regarding Tarish: "Perhaps he will not be sure either. Or perhaps he doesn't see it."

Keep in mind he should have something that helped him continue through the 20 years of constant (and very brutal) testing in the sibko. Remember that of the hundred it started with it has been whittled down to less than ten by now.

My impression on our PCs:

Kevin is mainly interested in doing his duty as a Clan warrior; his tinkering gives him a creative outlet.

Cherish throws herself into battle enthusiastically in the knowledge that the Clan ways are right and good. She will follow the established route of ambitious warriors to perfect herself in and through combat and rise among the Clan.

Yuri is just different.  (In fact, he answers to the higher responsibility of his bloodline, the ubiquitous Kerensky.)


So my point is: Tarnish should have something that keeps him going on. If he just doubts the Clan ways, why is he still there? 


Folkert


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## doghead (Dec 21, 2003)

Douane, alot of meat to chew on - its been the usual end of year rush recently, so I haven't had much time for thought. I will however, be getting to it. Thanks for all the input from everyone.


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## doghead (Dec 22, 2003)

Update: Tarnish 

OK. I've modified him a little. I thought about everything that you said, but decided that there were reasons for keeping it as is. 

*Unarmed* Tarnish does not have the build of many warriors, so he has made up for it in skill. He is damned if he is going to let any snotty ignorant warrior dictate to him what is and isn't honourable. He knows the way of the wolf clan as well as anyone. He also believes that the unthinking arrogence and intolerance of the warrior caste is the the greatest danger to the clan life, the rot that eats away at the heart of the clans until they burst appart like a rotton melon. Hubris.

*Security Systems* Yes, he does mix with the other classes. Don't like it, call a trial, and be prepared to get bloodied.

*Special Interest: Inner Sphere* Know your enemy. At least, that is how Tarnish will explain (should he chose say anything to you at all) his interest and time spent in the librarys (assuming they have librarys) and with those who have experience of the IS life. Don't like it, see above.

*Seduction* Tarnish can be charming if he wishes. Indeed, he is quite personable. Personable. Proud. Prickly. Seduction seemed to be the most appropriate skill.

As for Gunnery and BM, I gave it serious thought. But the points need to improve it would have ment slashing and burning elsewhere. And anyway, he's a quick learner. You might be able to beat him for a while ...

OK. He's not quite the rebel that appeared to be forming. Indeed, in may ways he is quite traditional. He abhors waste. He believes deeply in honour and discipline. It just that he does not do it blindly like so many others, and he does not dismiss others out of hand.


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## Douane (Dec 22, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> OK. I've modified him a little. I thought about everything that you said, but decided that there were reasons for keeping it as is.




No problem! Just wanted to offer my input.  [Not meant in the Cyberpunk 2020 way! (Where input is slang for girlfriend.)  ]




> *Security Systems* Yes, he does mix with the other classes. Don't like it, call a trial, and be prepared to get bloodied.




Yuri: " 'Prepare to get bloodied?' You mean I could actually hurt my knuckles while I pound your head into the pavement?"

Yuri: "Mingling with lower castes? As if his tainted genes are not enough already."

 


Probably, few Warriors will ever call Tarnish to a Trial over this (unless it seriously offends their sense of ethics), but many will despise him for it.




> *Special Interest: Inner Sphere* Know your enemy. At least, that is how Tarnish will explain (should he chose say anything to you at all) his interest and time spent in the librarys (assuming they have librarys) and with those who have experience of the IS life. Don't like it, see above.




There are some problems with this:

1. As you have already guessed there are no libraries at all. (In fact, few clanners will ever see a real book in their lives.) You learned everything you need to know while being raised (either within the sibko or as part of your caste) and will broaden that knowledge with the experience gained in the course of your duty. Anything else will be just unnecessary ballast and therefore waste, quiaff?

1a. " [...] those who have experience of the IS life.". There are no such people among the Clans. There has been virtually no contact between the Clans and the Inner Sphere for over 250 years. (But see point 3 below.)


2. The state of information Tarnish is interested in. Many records were lost in the fighting on the Pentagon worlds and when Nicholas started the Second Exodus from there, he was mainly interested in Warriors and adequate support personal (Techs, Scientists and Laborers). Historical knowledge was of no interest to him. (Why preserve anything from very past you are trying to break with?) [And even before that, his own father wasn't really interested in maintaining a cadre of professional historians or anything, he had other priorities: "Overloaded with soldiers and military technicians and lacking experienced farmers and a manual-labor force [...]"]


3. The age and availability of the information: If there is surviving historical information and one manages to actually get his hands on this, it depicts the state the Inner Sphere was in over 250 years ago, at the end of the Star League. (Nothing on the Succession Wars that shaped the IS of today far more than the distant Star League.) While a small amount of information trickled in over the years, it was not very specific and heavily distorted. The perhaps best source of information, the reports of the Dragoons 3009 and 3019 are in no way common knowledge. In fact, only the respective Khans of the Clans have access to this information.


4. The quality of the accessible information: Everything will be skewed, both by the particular point-of-view of the Clans and by the bias against the Inner Sphere.


Thus, the only option open to Tarnish would probably be SI: Star League. (With the danger of drawing conclusions from very misleading information.)




> As for Gunnery and BM, I gave it serious thought. But the points need to improve it would have ment slashing and burning elsewhere. And anyway, he's a quick learner. You might be able to beat him for a while ...




Just for your information from a rules point-of-view: It will take over a year of combat experience to get your Gunnery and Piloting up to skill level 3. (Of course, then it really slows down.)

Not meant to dissuade you from your decision; notice that Yuri's skills are even crappier because I faced the same dilemma.


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## doghead (Dec 22, 2003)

Yeah, I noticed later that even with the Unarmed 3 he is only at 6+, meaning most of the others could give him a good pounding. I have been considering the wisdom of taking both Combat Sence and 6th Sence, it was mostly just a feel thing as I had no idea at the time what they actually ment in game terms. I'm still not really sure about 6th Sence.

Switching to Option B (30/21/3) would allow upping his Build to 4 and Ref to 7 (just like everyone else  ), increasing his Ath to 7+ and his Phys to 5+. In effect, improving all the key skills you mentioned (as well as Unarmed).

I see what you mean about the Special Interest: Inner Sphere. Perhaps I should change it to Clan History, in as much as the clans were formed out of the conflict with and expulsion from the Inner Sphere.

OK.  A fairly major reworking below. Jemal, there are some fairly major changes here. Is it OK to do so at this stage?


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## doghead (Dec 22, 2003)

Option B: 30 points attributes, 21 points skills, 3 point advantages

- ATTRIBUTES -

BLD 3 (3)
REF 7 (6)+1
INT 7 (12)/2+1
LRN 6 (6)
CHA 3 (3)

Athletic +8 (18-BLD-REF)
Physical +4 (18-REF-INT)
Mental +5 (18-INT-LRN)
Social +8 (18-INT-CHA)

- SKILLS -

_Athletic_
Unarmed Combat 3/5+
_Physical_
Gunnery (Battlemech) 2/3+
Piloting (Battlemech) 2/3+
_Mental_
Perception 1/4+
Security Systems 1/4+
Special Interest: Clan History 1/4+
Tactics 2/3+
_Social_
Seduction 2/6+

- ADVANTAGES -

Edge 4


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## Jemal (Dec 22, 2003)

Go ahead, nothing is set in stone yet.


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## Douane (Dec 23, 2003)

I have to apologize for my slow activity over the last days, but instead of being quite my weekend had been rather hectic and it doesn't seem to be slowing down.


*Jemal*,

do you have any specific date in mind for starting this?

(I'm still owing you some write-ups and I don't think I'll be able to get to them during the next days. In addition, I don't know how my net access will be during this week due to staying with the family.)

I will be definitely be able to work on BT from the 29th on (one whole free week!  ) so it would be cool if it were possible to time this accordingly.


*Doghead*,

what kind of info regarding the Trials do you need/want?  You seem to have all the basic info, so what should I be looking for?


*Festy*,

same goes for you: What do you still need/want? I think we've covered the basics pretty well over the course of this thread, so what questions are still open?


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## doghead (Dec 23, 2003)

I was just wondering what trials, appart from refusal and grievence, existed and how they are usually done (is combat the only way? weapons? time and place?).


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## Douane (Dec 23, 2003)

doghead said:
			
		

> I was just wondering what trials, appart from refusal and grievence, existed and how they are usually done (is combat the only way? weapons? time and place?).




Ah, I will post a complete list with details later. (There are not that many types.) 


As for how they are being done:

There is absolutely no standard set for this. It totally depends on the outcome of the bargaining by the participants. True, a form of combat is usually chosen, but might be as well a chess match or a 100m dash.  (Though these later examples might be considered un-clanlike by many, they are theoretically possible.)

In theory, unarmed should be considered the lowest bid, but it does not necessarily mean that your opponent will be unarmed, too.

This actually depends on how the challenge is handled: If you ask "What forces will defend ...", your opponent has the chance to name his choice and you have to bid against it. (Of course, if your bid is really low, your opponent might feel forced by honour to lower his own bid.) [This is the traditional form for a challenge and therefore most Trials.] 

If you "I challenge this with ...", your opponent should be honour-bound to make an appropriate counter-offer to meet or underbid your bid. (But there's nothing that forces him to do so!)


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## Douane (Dec 23, 2003)

Here's the latest installment of my column "The Clans inside": 


1. We have already cited "intolerance/arrogance" and "fanaticism" as "typical Clan virtues". But there's a third "virtue" that dominates the Warrior Caste of the Clans especially: It's "impatience" (or the feeling of having not enough time)

Warriors do not make long-term plans, because they do not have the time for it. (see below) This feeling permeates their whole behaviour, resulting in extreme impatient warriors. It makes them impulsive (even volatile) and prone to act on the spur of the moment. Most simply try to seize the right moment when it comes, but that is about it.

The Trials reinforce/support this attitude. Have a problem of any kind? Call a Trial! One way or the other, the matter at hand will be resolved *now*. 

It also influences their behaviour in combat: There is nothing as bad as sitting back and waiting, when you could get into the action and prove yourself.

Due to the bidding process, there will almost always someone who is bound to be frustrated by being not included or by being bargained away. These feeling are again channeled by the Trials and taken out on other warriors (or even the lower castes). [Though not again your superior! You would better not call for a Trial of Refusal against your commander's bid.]


The only notable exception to this phenomen is the so-called "Kerensky Vision": The warriors of the Kerensky bloodline are said to possess some dgrees of patience (though in varying amounts). Still, there are exceptions even to this like Natasha Kerensky who had virtually none at all.



Where does this feeling of having not enough time / the pressure of proving yourself quickly through combat stem from?


From the Eugenics system! 

Clan warriors don't have long (compared to Inner Sphere warriors) to prove their worth of being included in the breeding program by gaining a Bloodname. As this it the only way of having your genes included in future generations of warriors, it is the highest aim a Clan Warrior can achieve. [Rank by itself is surely nice, but the Bloodname is the only thing that counts. In fact, many warriors do not even aim at the higher ranks, content in their place and doing their duty, but will risk everything to gain one of the coveted (and scarce) bloodnames.]


Regarding Age and the "have not enough time" syndrome, here are some age brackets for a Clan Warrior:


20: Out the sibko, the 'real' life of a warrior begins.

30: The warrior will be considered "old" and probably on his way down.

35: Now considered "Ancient", the warrior will be removed from frontline duty to either train new warriors or to hunt bandits in disgrace (which might also be your fate earlier, depending on your record). 

45: So you did not have the good sense to die by now, warrior? Well, your fighting days are finally and totally over. You now good for nothing but caring for infants.


A bloodname extends your stay in active duty and guarantees your place in the breeding programm. 



2. Clanners do *not* lie! In fact, many clanners are simply unable to grasp the concept of lying, automatically assuming that everything their opponents tells them is the pure truth. 

While there might be some instances of "obfuscating" the truth, this will usually be greatly despised as dishonourable, as will any kind of duplicity or obvious political maneuvering. (These are unworthy throwbacks to the politicking that orginally drove us out of the IS, quiaff?)


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## Douane (Dec 23, 2003)

Here's the promised except from my "Clan Primer":

_Clan Trials_


*Trial of Bloodright*
          The Clans have approximately 760 Bloodnames. The name of each of the 800 warriors who joined Nicholas Kerensky and refused to take part in the Exodus Civil War is considered a Bloodname, less the 40 names removed when the "Not-Named Clan" was annihilated. Clan tradition dictates that only 25 living Clan warriors may hold the same Bloodname, and each must have a direct matrilineal link to the original progenitor.
          Each Clan originally claimed rights only to the Bloodnames of the 40 warriors Nicholas Kerensky assigned to that Clan. This organization gradually blurred as Clans fought each other in Trials of Possession for specific warriors' genes to enhance their individual Clan. Even if warriors became abtakha (captured by another Clan), they still retained the right to claim a Bloodname belonging to their former Clan. In this way, more than one Clan could claim the same Bloodname. Additional cross-naming took place when two Clans were disbanded and their Bloodnames spread among the other Clans. There are still some Bloodnames, however, that are the exclusive property of a Clan. The Kerensky and Ward Bloodnames, for example, are still held only by warriors of the Wolf Clan.
          Winning a Bloodname is a warrior's guarantee of Clan immortality. Not only is he honored with the right to use the Bloodname as his own, but he becomes eligible for high military and political positions. Most important to Bloodnamed warriors is the fact that, barring any subsequent action that would bring them shame, their genes will contribute to the gene pool for the next generation. The remains of most Bloodnamed warriors are returned to one of the 800 memorial chapels built by Nicholas Kerensky on Strana Mechty to honor each of the original 800 warriors. There, the ashes of each Bloodnamed warrior lie with the ashes of the other warriors of the same Bloodname in the ornate tomb of their honored namesake.
          When a Bloodnamed warrior dies, a Trial of Bloodright is declared. The current Bloodnamed warriors of that name each select one nominee from the pool of eligible candidates. The Bloodname's leader nominates additional warriors to bring the number to 31 candidates. The 32nd slot is reserved for all other eligible candidates, those who were not nominated but who still wish to compete for a Bloodname. This group engages in a Grand Bloodname Melee, with the survivor being awarded the 32nd slot. The 32 candidates then begin a series of one-on-one duels that eventually result in one victor, who is awarded the Bloodname. This fulfills Nicholas Kerensky's requirement that a Bloodname be won by defeating all others who make a claim to that name.


*Trial of Position*
          Trials of Position determine rank and honors. The Trial of Position determines whether a cadet becomes a warrior as well as whether a warrior deserves a promotion to the next level of training. The trial is a combat situation in which the candidate usually faces selected superiors one at a time with live weapons. The candidate's success determines how far he advances in rank and responsibility.
          The use of live weapons for what is essentially an examination seems barbaric and wasteful of human life to those outside the Clans. An accident can easily cut short a promising career or life. It is one of the best examples of how little regard the Clans have for individual life in their quest for social supremacy.
           Even if the goal is worthy, is it worth the cost in suffering and human life? When asked this question, a Clansman most often reacts with a blank stare. The concept of individuality is as alien to the Clanspeople as they are to us. Those who understand that it is a question of balance can answer easily. The cause is worth everything, the individual, nothing. If a warrior is unwilling to risk his life for the good of the Clans, he cannot claim the status of warrior and is of no use to the Clans. His fellow Clansmen would prefer to discover this in a test than in the heat of battle. Therefore, they see no point in using powered-down weapons when a warrior is training to face real weapons.
          Throughout a cadet's training and a warrior's career, he continually undergoes Trials of Position. From the sibko on, a warrior must face many trials. The early trials would be familiar to us in the Inner Sphere as simple exams. The trials grow progressively harder, however, and the cadet's attitude and mental endurance is tested as well as his knowledge of facts.
          The Trial of Position is also a cadet's final trial. During this test, two cadets face six front-line warriors with weapons at full power. Each candidate faces three of the experienced warriors, who attack one at a time. If a candidate attacks any of the warriors assigned to another cadet, they are free to return fire, and the combat becomes a general melee. To pass the trial, a candidate must defeat at least one of his opponents. If he does so, he becomes a warrior and enters active service. Defeat of two opponents earns the rank of Star Commander. Defeat of three, a rare accomplishment, ranks the candidate as a Star Captain. Defeat of four requires cooperation between the two candidates, in that one surrenders a potential kill to the other. A warrior can be required to repeat the Trial of Position at any time in his career, especially when his continuing ability to perform is in question or when he is in line for a promotion.


*Trial of Grievance (Honor Duel)*
          When disputes arise between individual warriors that neither they nor their immediate superiors can resolve, the parties may also call for a Trial of Grievance. The rules governing the trial are many and strict. If the combatants are MechWarriors or fighter pilots of different weight-class vehicles, the council must make the contest more even. Often, a vehicle type that is mid-way in size is chosen, and the disputants have several weeks to become accustomed to their new vehicles. If the disputants are from different branches of the warrior caste, then some kind of a middle ground, such as fencing with Medusa whips, is chosen.
          A Circle of Equals is defined, anything from ten meters in diameter for a hand-to-hand trial to more than 100 kilometers wide for an air duel. No one but the combatants may enter the Circle of Equals unless invited, and leaving the Circle before the contest is ended is a shameful defeat. All trials are defined as to the death, but they usually end before either combatant is killed.
          This system of decisions and regulations is designed to outlast the anger that sparked the trial, and that is usually the case. Some records indicate, however, that sometimes the anger between two warriors, or two sets of warriors, outlasts even the Trial of Grievance, degenerating into what we would call a feud. The most notorious and well-documented failure of the grievance trial system involved the Nicholas Pride sibko and the Blue Devil sibko of Clan Smoke Jaguar. The Blue Devil warriors maintained a grudge for several generations, based on an imagined slight during a Smoke Jaguar Council ceremony.
          Other tales suggest that many Honor Duels are resolved less formally and more swiftly than official sources dictate. For example, a Trial of Grievance between two sibkin rarely draws the attention of the Clan Council. Instead, a Circle of Equals is drawn immediately and the two fight under the supervision of a superior officer until one is knocked from the circle.


*Trial of Possession*
          The fourth type of combat trial is conducted when two or more Clans claim the rights to the same thing, be it territory, a warrior's genes, or even supremacy in a conflict of opinion. Nicholas Kerensky created this combat trial within a year of the end of the civil war. As a reward for their loyal support, Kerensky decided that each Clan should receive half of one of the colonized Clan worlds and small shares of the others. Strana Mechty would remain neutral. The Clans had to determine among themselves who would possess what area. If two or more Clans wanted the same piece of land, their claims were subject to a Trial of Possession. This policy resulted in many hard-fought battles to determine which Clans got the lion's share of the better worlds and how the remaining lands were to be divided.          
          Clans can keep prisoners taken during such trials to serve as "bondsmen" (laborers for the Clan), or else these individuals may be sent back to their original Clan, with little honor lost. Bondsmen must serve the Clan until the Clan Council decides to reinstate their rights as a warrior. A Clan can formally adopt captured warriors if the Clan Council considers them an asset to its forces. Once a warrior is officially adopted into a new Clan, he regains his warrior status.
          Bidding and Trials of Possession both favor commanders who succeed using minimal forces. Nicholas used these methods to prevent all-out war and the catastrophic loss of industry and civilian life that inevitably accompanies it.


*Trial of Refusal*
          The Clan Councils and the Grand Council, like any legislative bodies, vote on laws and actions that affect the community. Unlike Inner Sphere legislative bodies, however, any decision can be challenged and reversed by a Trial of Refusal. These trials afford the losing side the right to demand that the issue be settled by combat.
          The forces used in a Trial of Refusal are determined on a prorated basis. The side rejecting the vote declares what forces they will use. The winning side can field a force equal to the ratio of winning votes to losing votes. If, for example, the contested vote carried by a three-to-one margin, those on the winning side of the issue can field a force three times the size of the force of those challenging the decision. The traditional bidding by subcommanders usually results in a smaller attacking force, however.
          An interesting variation of the Trial of Refusal is the Absorption Right. The Grand Council can vote to allow one Clan to absorb another, but only by a unanimous vote (excepting the Clan being absorbed). The council then determines which Clan will benefit from the Absorption. Naturally, the Clan to be absorbed would demand a Trial of Refusal. The Clan chosen to absorb the weaker Clan may also be challenged by others in a Trial of Refusal even before battling the Clan to be absorbed. 


*Trial of Annihilation*
          A Trial of Annihilation is the most extreme punishment the Clans can declare. It goes beyond the question of right and wrong. A Trial of Annihilation virtually guarantees that the warrior will die and that his genes will be eliminated from the Clans' gene pool. This trial can only be invoked by a unanimous vote of the appropriate council, and only for the most heinous crimes against Clan society.
          Trials of Annihilation have been declared against warriors, Stars, and even Clusters, but only once has an entire Clan suffered this ultimate punishment. Because any mention of the Clan involved in this Trial of Annihilation is punishable by a Trial of Grievance, no Clansman would reveal the name of the "Not-Named Clan." The details behind its annihilation were also impossible to discover.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 23, 2003)

I'm sure I've got everything I need to know for the moment, thx for your help Douane. 

I've also learnt that I'm definitely not a fan of some of the clan ways, especially the whole anti-old people thing. 

I definitely like their mechs though.


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## Douane (Dec 23, 2003)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> [...] I've also learnt that I'm definitely not a fan of the clan ways, just their mechs.




Very understandable, but you underestimate the pure joy of trashing a clan mech with your own 3025 machine. 

[I still like the 3025 era the best. Real 'Dark Future' with a pessimistic bend and no new toys just around the corner (and certainly no total exchange of available mech designs every 2-3 years).  Perhaps I should offer to run a game in this era, but I wonder who would actually like to play that way?   ]


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 23, 2003)

Douane said:
			
		

> Very understandable, but you underestimate the pure joy of trashing a clan mech with your own 3025 machine.




Hmm, sounds satisfying.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 30, 2003)

I'm back!

Jemal, would you prefer I make a Mechwarrior character, or stay with the Elemental build?


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## Jemal (Dec 30, 2003)

'sup to you, Pax, either'll work for me.


I'ld like to start this up in early January if possible.. or I should say, as early in January as possible.


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## Festy_Dog (Dec 31, 2003)

Well, I'm ready to go whenever.


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## doghead (Dec 31, 2003)

Here.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Dec 31, 2003)

I decided to fill the missing Mech star slot; while powered armor is fun, party cohesion is more important (and durability is nice as well).

Reuben of Bloodhouse Carson

Option A

Abilities:

Bld 2   2 pts
Ref 7   6 pts
Int 7   12 pts
Lrn 6   6 pts
Cha 4   4 pts

Skills:

Gunnery/MW 3 points  2+
Leadership 3 points    5+
Negotiation 3 points   5+
Perception 6 points    2+
Pilot/MW 3 points       2+
Small Arms 3 points    2+
Special Interest Remembrance 3 points 3+
Tactics    3 points     3+

Advantages: Extra Edge 1

Appearance:  Reuben is of average height for a Mechwarrior, but greyhound thin, with no fat and little muscle.  His hair would be black if he didn't shave it regularly; his lean skull would be off-putting if his piercing amber eyes didn't seize the attention so readily.  His face is seldom with expression, and his voice is usually warmly non-committal.

Personality:  Reuben is at once the pride of his bloodhouse and its shame: while he is clearly destined to be a skilled Mechwarrior, and displays great leadership abilities, he often acts in a most un-warrior-like way, exhibiting patience, restraint, and occasionally even mercy.  He has been known to go most of a battle without firing a shot, yet somehow always seems to bring down his target; he will go most of a conversation without speaking, yet his last words will win it.  He seems to care little for honor at times, often yielding minor points without a trial, and going into important Trials with dishonorably high force levels. Nevertheless, he takes unusual care to avoid even the appearance of violating Zellbrigen; he does the discouraged freely, but abhorrs the forbidden. Despite his effectiveness, his methods anger many, so he developed a strong mysticism, and a deep knowledge of Clan history, in an attempt to deflect critics.


Incidentally, how many tons do I have left to play with for my 'Mech?


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## Festy_Dog (Jan 1, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> [I still like the 3025 era the best. Real 'Dark Future' with a pessimistic bend and no new toys just around the corner (and certainly no total exchange of available mech designs every 2-3 years).  Perhaps I should offer to run a game in this era, but I wonder who would actually like to play that way?  ]




I know I would. 

Dark, pessimistic future is very appealing.



			
				Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> Reuben of Bloodhouse Carson




Very kewl character concept Paxus, I'll go back through the thread and see if I can find out how much tonnage you have available to you.

Edit: 75 tons to play with.


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 1, 2004)

Festy_Dog said:
			
		

> Very kewl character concept Paxus, I'll go back through the thread and see if I can find out how much tonnage you have available to you.
> 
> Edit: 75 tons to play with.




Since I do not have my own computer at the moment, I cannot use Mechworks until the 3rd, so I will have to use the standard variants for the next two days. If I can use all 75 tons, the Mad Cat is my preference, but as I recall there was a limit on the maximum size of any given Mech, so the Linebacker may be a necessary alternate.  Once I can use Mechworks, I will likely be focusing on Gauss rifles and PPCs, as precise, powerful weapons with the range to take advantage of any situation.


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## doghead (Jan 1, 2004)

Nice character Paxus. 

You've really captured what I was originally trying (unsuccessfully) to do with do with Tarnish. But without knowing so much (anything) about the clans I found the concept just getting all bent out of shape.

Which remeinds me that I need to get the "reformed" version up.


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## doghead (Jan 1, 2004)

Tarnish of House Conners*

Option B: 30 points attributes, 21 points skills, 3 point advantages

- ATTRIBUTES -

BLD 3 (3)
REF 7 (6)+1
INT 7 (12)/2+1
LRN 6 (6)
CHA 3 (3)

Athletic +8 (18-BLD-REF)
Physical +4 (18-REF-INT)
Mental +5 (18-INT-LRN)
Social +8 (18-INT-CHA)

- SKILLS -

Athletic
Unarmed Combat 3/5+
Physical
Gunnery (Battlemech) 2/3+
Piloting (Battlemech) 2/3+
Mental
Perception 1/4+
Security Systems 1/4+
Special Interest: Clan History 1/4+
Tactics 2/3+
Social
Seduction 2/6+

- ADVANTAGES -

Edge 4

Tarnish was born to be a mechwarrior. To him it is that simple. He understands that there is the possibility of failure, but he refuses to consider it. He only will if he must.

Tarnish is of average hight, but jaggedly thin, a stark construct of muscle and bone, all flat planes and bony petrusions. His hair is dreadlocked, heavily matted cords tied back with a ragged piece of cloth. Dark tattoos snake their way up each  of his arms from the wrists to the shoulder. His clothes, an ongoing sourse of irritation for some, include a chaotic collection of scrounged items - talismans he calls them. A pair of battered ground crew cargo pants or an old infantry utility jacket would not be unusual.

Tarnish is not the big noise that some of his sibkin are. But beneath the quite exterior burns a ferociously competetive spirit. Tarnish believes in the Clan way, but not blindly. There is no honour in following something without understanding, without thought or consideration. He holds his own counsel and walks the path he belives to be true. He listens to those who disagree with him, nodding occasionally, but saying little. But he does not diviate from what he believes to be right, even if others disagree, until a trial is called. Some trials he has won, some he has lost. But he has fought enough to start becoming dangerous in a fight, despite his size.

Notes: Basically I've rewritten him to remove some of the discordant elements and bring him more in line with the conventional mechwarrior. Perhaps, for a Clan Wolf warrior, he *is* fairly conventional - in something I read about the Clan Wolf it used the ideals "Think. Prepare. Attack." Think.

The stats are as posted before - his interest in clan history extends to that of the other clans as well, to the extent that that information is available.


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## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> [...]so the Linebacker may be a necessary alternate.  Once I can use Mechworks, I will likely be focusing on Gauss rifles and PPCs, as precise, powerful weapons with the range to take advantage of any situation.




I'd really appreciate this solution, because it would enable me take my beloved Cauldron-Born instead of the Stormcrow taken out of necessity to keep our weight down. 


Folkert


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## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> _Special Interest Remembrance_ 3 points 3+
> 
> 
> Personality:  Reuben is at once the pride of his bloodhouse and its shame: while he is clearly destined to be a skilled Mechwarrior, and displays great leadership abilities, he often acts in a most un-warrior-like way, exhibiting patience, restraint, and occasionally even mercy.  He has been known to go most of a battle without firing a shot, yet somehow always seems to bring down his target; he will go most of a conversation without speaking, yet his last words will win it.  He seems to care little for honor at times, often yielding minor points without a trial, and *going into important Trials with dishonorably high force levels*. Nevertheless, he takes unusual care to avoid even the appearance of violating Zellbrigen; he does the discouraged freely, but abhorrs the forbidden. Despite his effectiveness, his methods anger many, so he developed a strong mysticism, and a _deep knowledge of Clan history_, in an attempt to deflect critics.




Nice PC, Paxus!


IC: 

"Some points, though, Reuben:

By *mocking the Trial system* as instituted by Nicholas Kerensky himself you are endangering the survival of your genes. Who would like someone like this to contribute to future generations of warriors? Surely not even Bloodhouse Carson has sunk this low. Did you never think of the fact that your own dishonour affacts your whole bloodline?

...

I hope that you are aware of the nature of the revered Remembrance, quiaff? It is not exactly a totally accurate account of our past, besides it presents only one point of view. Of course it is that of the Wolves and therefore the most important of all, but still ... Youz will encounter differing acounts of the past throughout the Kersenky Cluster." 
[OoC: Knowledge of each remembrance is a separate skill. Basic knowledge of the Wolf Clan Remembrance is assumed, though certainly not a full memorization (which is represented by a high skill level). ]


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## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> The stats are as posted before - his interest in clan history extends to that of the other clans as well, to the extent that that information is available.




*Doghead*,

while a skill SI: History of the Clans will give you the knowledge of the past of the clans as a whole, the information on events that concerned some or only one or two of the clans will be extremely limited.


Folkert


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## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> I'd really appreciate this solution, because it would enable me take my beloved Cauldron-Born instead of the Stormcrow taken out of necessity to keep our weight down.
> 
> Folkert




You were here first, so I couldn't insist on getting my Mad Cat even if it was that important to me.  Enjoy your Cauldron-Born.  It'll keep our weights closer to even, which is important as far as I've seen.




			
				Duoane said:
			
		

> By mocking the Trial system as instituted by Nicholas Kerensky himself you are endangering the survival of your genes. Who would like someone like this to contribute to future generations of warriors? Surely not even Bloodhouse Carson has sunk this low. Did you never think of the fact that your own dishonour affacts your whole bloodline?




It is not I who mock the Trial system.  When a thing is truly necessary, one devotes all forces to accomplish it.  Those who would risk the future of the Clan by giving less than is needful, out of tradition or out of fear of loss, are the ones endangering their future.  Rest assured that I will not so dishonor _your_ name; you may get yourself killed over a pointless grievance if you wish.  I will, however, remind you that wisdom knows as much in knowing when not to fight, as it does in how to fight.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Whoops.  Double post.


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> You were here first, so I couldn't insist on getting my Mad Cat even if it was that important to me.  Enjoy your Cauldron-Born.  It'll keep our weights closer to even, which is important as far as I've seen.




Paxus,

if you want the Mad Cat, take it. While I would like to take the Cauldron-Born, it's not exactly the very core my (or Yuri's) universe revolves around. 


Folkert


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> Paxus,
> 
> if you want the Mad Cat, take it. While I would like to take the Cauldron-Born, it's not exactly the very core my (or Yuri's) universe revolves around.
> 
> ...




It would be nice to have that much firepower, but I think the survivability that the Cauldron-Bourn will give you is more important to the survival of the star.


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

> It is not I who mock the Trial system.  *When a thing is truly necessary, one devotes all forces to accomplish it.*  Those who would risk the future of the Clan by giving less than is needful, out of tradition or out of fear of loss, are the ones endangering their future.  Rest assured that I will not so dishonor _your_ name; you may get yourself killed over a pointless grievance if you wish.  I will, however, remind you that wisdom knows as much in knowing when not to fight, as it does in how to fight.




"Now, where have I heard this before? Ah, yes. Sounds rather similar to the justification the barbarian House Lords gave for breaking the Ares Conventions and employing _nuclear weapons_, quiaff? So I take it that you condone their use?"


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> "Now, where have I heard this before? Ah, yes. Sounds rather similar to the justification the barbarian House Lords gave for breaking the Ares Conventions and employing _nuclear weapons_, quiaff? So I take it that you condone their use?"




*That* is a gross slander indeed.  I meant nothing of the sort.  _Nuclear weapons are an entirely different thing from a larger force of Mechs.  The purpose of a Trial is to determine which Clan is the superior, quiaff?  The use of such massively destructive weapons determines only who is more willing to destroy without care for the consequences._


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

"Slander? Ooh!

You should be calling a Trial of Grievance, but somehow I have the idea that you will not be doing so, quineg?

Perhaps you should step down into the Merchant caste voluntarily? I heard that they are rather fond of using big words instead of fighting for what is rightfully theirs. But you should ask Tarnish about that, he seems to spend a good amount of time with the lower castes.


As for which Clan is superior, that was established a long time ago, if you care to remember. The Trials govern our whole way of life, so, if you do not like this, find your place somewhere else.

_We_ of the Clans abhor waste and put honour above everything else. I suppose your feelings are the exact opposite of this, quiaff?"


----------



## doghead (Jan 3, 2004)

"Yuri. Reuben. Neither of you managed to convince each other in all the years that you have been having this argument. You will not do so here. Call a Trail of Grievence or let it go and hold your peace. We grow weary of it."


----------



## Festy_Dog (Jan 3, 2004)

Kevin nods.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> "Yuri. Reuben. Neither of you managed to convince each other in all the years that you have been having this argument. You will not do so here. Call a Trail of Grievence or let it go and hold your peace. We grow weary of it."




"As you recall, it is not _I_ who has started this argument, now or at any time in the past.  Truly, it is said the Clans abhor waste, in words as well as deeds."  With that, Reuben turns from the conversation.


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> "Yuri. Reuben. Neither of you managed to convince each other in all the years that you have been having this argument. You will not do so here. Call a Trail of Grievence or let it go and hold your peace. We grow weary of it."




"You are still here, Tarnish? I thought you had gone over to the Technician quarters to welcome their new members, since you dislike the company of warriors so much.

Besides, you should keep your "advice" to yourself. I see no need for convincing anyone at all, as there only one right interpretation which of course is mine. Still, Reuben should have a chance to forsake his erraneous ways, because I sincerely hope that they are not breed into him as a result of _bad and faulty_ genes."


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> "You are still here, Tarnish? I thought you had gone over to the Technician quarters to welcome their new members, since you dislike the company of warriors so much.
> 
> Besides, you should keep your "advice" to yourself. I see no need for convincing anyone at all, as there only one right interpretation which of course is mine. Still, Reuben should have a chance to forsake his erraneous ways, because I sincerely hope that they are not breed into him as a result of _bad and faulty_ genes."




"Still trying to goad me into a Trial of Grievance, Yuri?  You know perfectly well I do not care what you say about me in the hangar.  Your words cause no harm, so it would not be worth the effort to silence them.  Speak such slander where it may be heard by too many, and you may learn it is not yet too late to prune our sibko."


OOC:  How accurate is the Combat Value that Mechworks gives?  The Linebacker configuration I am currently toying with has a 6283.


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> "As you recall, it is not _I_ who has started this argument, now or at any time in the past.  Truly, it is said the Clans abhor waste, in words as well as deeds."  With that, Reuben turns from the conversation.




"So you run once again, Reuben. 

At least _I_ got used to this over years; I seriously wonder, though, if you will find other frontline warriors to be as forgiving, should you make it past your Trial of Position."


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> "So you run once again, Reuben.
> 
> At least _I_ got used to this over years; I seriously wonder, though, if you will find other frontline warriors to be as forgiving, should you make it past your Trial of Position."




"Should they consider my demeanor so insulting as to require a Trial of Grievance, they will have little time to regret their mistake; should they not, their words are of little matter to me.  The Clan demands warriors, not incompetents who can do little but mutter against their betters.  Which are you, I wonder?"


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> OOC:  How accurate is the Combat Value that Mechworks gives?  The Linebacker configuration I am currently toying with has a 6283.





Paxus,

Combat Value is no longer used (it was supplanted by Battle Value), so I've no actual idea. Besides I'm a bit wary of judging a config by a simple number. Go with what you find comfortable or interesting. (If you recall that most stock configs are not really optimized, there is always room for an unusual one.)


Folkert


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> "Should they consider my demeanor so insulting as to require a Trial of Grievance, they will have little time to regret their mistake; should they not, their words are of little matter to me.  The Clan demands warriors, not incompetents who can do little but mutter against their betters.  Which are you, I wonder?"




"Oh, I surely belong to the first, if only by the fact that I have no betters among you."


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> "Oh, I surely belong to the first, if only by the fact that I have no betters among you."




"Truly?  I seem to recall some abominable gunnery on your part; surely a warrior who can't hit his target, nor avoid his opponent's fire, has at least _one_ better."


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

"Indeed? 

While you might be a better gunner, my _better_ you are certainly not.

...

Are you sure you don't want to join a lower caste? As I heard someone mentioning that they are rather fond of using contractions, you would fit in well.

Watch your language when around warriors!"


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> "Indeed?
> 
> While you might be a better gunner, my better you are certainly not."




"Of course not.  It would be ridiculous for me to state that, because I am a better Mechwarrior than you, in a caste whose purpose is Mech battle, that I am your better.  Your oratory skills and lawyering are certainly more valuable than the combat expertise of your kin."


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

" So the whole purpose of the warrior caste is mech battle? An interesting insight.

I will not even try to dispel your illusions, since you are so reliant on your little crutch."


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> " So the whole purpose of the warrior caste is mech battle? An interesting insight.
> 
> I will not even try to dispel your illusions, since you are so reliant on your little crutch."




"The purpose of our subcaste is Mech battle, quiaff?  Surely you do not believe that we were born to be Elementals, quineg?  Yes, some few among us will gain positions of authority, should they prove their worths, but no Khan has yet lived who cannot fight.  There are, and must be, many warriors who do not rule."


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

*OoC:*

Paxus,

if you want to give me your Linebacker config, I can pop it into the Heavy Battle program and give you some comparison numbers regarding Battle Value.


Folkert


----------



## Urbanmech (Jan 3, 2004)

Is there any room left in this game?  I would be willing to play an Elemental or Aerospace pilot if the Star is full.  I am a long time Battletech junkie and this looks like it will be a lot of fun.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> *OoC:*
> 
> Paxus,
> 
> ...




There are two I'm looking at.  The first, my preference, carries a PPC in each arm and one in the left torso, and 24 double heat sinks.  The second, with a higher Combat Rating, has an ER Large Laser and 2 ER Medium Lasers in each arm, a pair of ER Medium Lasers in the Center Torso, and 28 double heat sinks.  Both have maximum standard armor and an XL engine with walk 4/run 6.


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> There are two I'm looking at.  The first, my preference, carries a PPC in each arm and one in the left torso, and 24 double heat sinks.  The second, with a higher Combat Rating, has an ER Large Laser and 2 ER Medium Lasers in each arm, a pair of ER Medium Lasers in the Center Torso, and 28 double heat sinks.  Both have maximum standard armor and an XL engine with walk 4/run 6.




Paxus,

this will not work. Neither speed nor armor can be changed on the base chassis ofr an Omnimech.


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> Paxus,
> 
> this will not work. Neither speed nor armor can be changed on the base chassis ofr an Omnimech.




I don't have any base stats for the Linebacker in particular, only a generic 65 ton chassis.  Where do I find them?


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> I don't have any base stats for the Linebacker in particular, only a generic 65 ton chassis.  Where do I find them?




Sorry!

Thought you had the actual ominmech in front of you.

Here's the base version (Podspace 17,5 t):

[Though you seem to need more podspace for your preferred choice of weapons, so perhaps a Hellbringer (28,5t) or a Mad Dog (28t) would be more appropriate.]


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 3, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> Sorry!
> 
> Thought you had the actual ominmech in front of you.
> 
> ...




18 tons of podspace would be enough, if it has enough heat sinks; Gauss rifles just don't seem to cut it when it comes to firepower, so I'm looking at (ideally) a pure PPC machine.  What tonnage is the Hellbringer?


----------



## Douane (Jan 3, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> 18 tons of podspace would be enough, if it has enough heat sinks; Gauss rifles just don't seem to cut it when it comes to firepower, so I'm looking at (ideally) a pure PPC machine.  What tonnage is the Hellbringer?




Well, the Linebacker has already 14 HS built into it, but it has to pay somewhat for it's speed of 6/9.

Mad Dog (60t): 5/8, 163 points armor, 28t podspace, 12 HS
Hellbringer (65t): 5/8 128 points armor, 28,5t podspace 13 HS


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 4, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> Well, the Linebacker has already 14 HS built into it, but it has to pay somewhat for it's speed of 6/9.
> 
> Mad Dog (60t): 5/8, 163 points armor, 28t podspace, 12 HS
> Hellbringer (65t): 5/8 128 points armor, 28,5t podspace 13 HS




The Helbringer it is, then.  If only you'd called it a Loki, I'd've grabbed it in a minute.  I don't know the Clan names so well.


----------



## Douane (Jan 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> The Helbringer it is, then.  If only you'd called it a Loki, I'd've grabbed it in a minute.  I don't know the Clan names so well.




Oops! 

Truth be told, I always referred to them by their IS names, too, but when Shalimar used the Clan names exclusively, I just followed suit.


Folkert


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 4, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> Oops!
> 
> Truth be told, I always referred to them by their IS names, too, but when Shalimar used the Clan names exclusively, I just followed suit.
> 
> ...




No worries.  I've come up with a primary config:  One PPC in the left torso, two in the right, an ER small laser in the head (for anything too small to waste PPC shots on), and a total of 23 double heat sinks.


----------



## Douane (Jan 4, 2004)

double-post!


----------



## Douane (Jan 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> No worries.  I've come up with a primary config:  One PPC in the left torso, two in the right, an ER small laser in the head (for anything too small to waste PPC shots on), and a total of 23 double heat sinks.




And here he is, in his full glory!


              BattleMech Technical Readout

Type/Model:    Hellbringer (Loki) Paxus
Tech:          Clan / 3050
Config:        Biped OmniMech
Rules:         Level 2, Standard design

Mass:          65 tons
Chassis:       Standard
Power Plant:   325 XL Fusion
Walking Speed: 54,0 km/h
Maximum Speed: 86,4 km/h
Jump Jets:     None
Jump Capacity: 0 meters
Armor Type:    Standard
Armament:      
  3 ER PPCs
  1 ER Small Laser
Manufacturer:  (Unknown)
  Location:    (Unknown)
Communications System:  (Unknown)
Targeting & Tracking System:  (Unknown)
--------------------------------------------------------
Type/Model:    Hellbringer (Loki) Paxus
Mass:          65 tons

Equipment:                                 Crits    Mass
Int. Struct.:  104 pts Standard              0      6,50
Engine:        325 XL Fusion                10     12,00
   Walking MP:   5
   Running MP:   8
   Jumping MP:   0
Heat Sinks:     23 Double [46]              20     13,00
 (Heat Sink Loc: 1 RA, 4 LT, 3 RT, 1 LL, 1 RL)
Gyro:                                        4      4,00
Cockpit, Life Supt., Sensors:                5      3,00
Actuators: L: Sh+UA+LA+H    R: Sh+UA+LA+H   16       ,00
Armor Factor:  128 pts Standard              0      8,00

                          Internal    Armor
                          Structure   Value
   Head:                      3          9      
   Center Torso:             21         17      
   Center Torso (Rear):                  8      
   L/R Side Torso:           15      14/14      
   L/R Side Torso (Rear):              7/7      
   L/R Arm:                  10      11/11      
   L/R Leg:                  15      15/15      

Weapons and Equipment    Loc  Heat  Ammo   Crits    Mass
--------------------------------------------------------
2 ER PPCs                RT     30           4     12,00
1 ER PPC                 LT     15           2      6,00
1 ER Small Laser         HD      2           1       ,50
--------------------------------------------------------
TOTALS:                         47          62     65,00
Crits & Tons Left:                          16       ,00

Calculated Factors:
Total Cost:        17.683.840 C-Bills
Battle Value:      2.233
Cost per BV:       7.919,32
Weapon Value:      2.574 / 2.574 (Ratio = 1,15 / 1,15)
Damage Factors:    SRDmg = 45;  MRDmg = 32;  LRDmg = 19
BattleForce2:      MP: 5,  Armor/Structure: 3/4
                   Damage PB/M/L: 6/5/5,  Overheat: 0
                   Class: MH;  Point Value: 22
                   Specials: omni


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 4, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> And here he is, in his full glory!




Wonderful!  Magnificent!  Now what does a Battle Rating of 2.233 mean?


----------



## doghead (Jan 4, 2004)

Hey Urbanmech,

Jemal is the man to ask if you are sure you want to join this factious bunch. But have you read the thread?

the head of the dog


----------



## Douane (Jan 4, 2004)

"Battle Value

Battle Value (BV) is an indication of the fighting power of a 'Mech; this system takes into account a 'Mech's armor, internal structure, weapons, speed, and other items. It provides an estimate of the survivability (Defensive BV) as well as the destructive power (Offensive BV) of a 'Mech."


Some BVs for comparison:

Clan
Daishi Widowmaker 2.534
Mad Cat Prime 2.252
Loki Prime 2.178
Vulture Prime 1.871

IS 3025
Atlas 1.557
Battlemaster 1.212
Marauder 1.089
Warhammer 978


----------



## doghead (Jan 4, 2004)

Tarnish shrugs as Yuri and Reuben continue their "discussion". He turns and wonders over to Kevin.

Quietly, for it is intended only for Kevin's ears, he says, "I grow weary of their bickering. Let's spar. Your choice of weapons."


----------



## doghead (Jan 4, 2004)

Ice Ferret (Fenris) 

Battle Value:      1.529 

BTW, which one is the clan name for the mech?


----------



## Douane (Jan 4, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> Ice Ferret (Fenris)
> 
> Battle Value:      1.529
> 
> BTW, which one is the clan name for the mech?




Ice Ferret


----------



## Douane (Jan 4, 2004)

Paxus Asclepius said:
			
		

> "The purpose of our subcaste is Mech battle, quiaff?  Surely you do not believe that we were born to be Elementals, quineg?  Yes, some few among us will gain positions of authority, should they prove their worths, but no Khan has yet lived who cannot fight.  There are, and must be, many warriors who do not rule."




"A rather simplistic approach, Reuben.

Still, you have made one point we can finally agree upon. Only a select few among _us_ will lead."


----------



## Festy_Dog (Jan 4, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> "I grow weary of their bickering. Let's spar. Your choice of weapons."




"Well, if small arms did not have their tendency to injure people severely I would choose them in a heartbeat," he says, slapping one of the holsters strapped to his thigh, "But we have our hands on hand, so unarmed is the choice I make."

Kevin stands and makes his way to a cleared spot far enough from the bickering pair. He stretches a little, and takes a stance.



Urbanmech: You can find the details for character creation scattered throughout the thread, but if there's any questions you need answered I'm sure someone can handle it.


----------



## doghead (Jan 4, 2004)

Tarnish looks at Kevin squaring off with a puzzled expression.

"I was thinking of doing it in the sparing room."

Regardless of where Kevin chooses, Tarnish gets ready, stretching out quickly.

OOC: We probably have some time. Wanna roll some dice? Whats the process. Determin Initiative. Roll to Hit. ?


----------



## Festy_Dog (Jan 5, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> "I was thinking of doing it in the sparing room."




Kevin thinks for a moment.

"Yeah, that works too. I guess we do not want to fall over and get a spanner lodged in the back," Kevin says, nodding.

Kevin heads over to the sparing room with Tarnish.

"Well then, this looks good. Much friendlier than the hangar floor, I can assume," he says, and takes up his stance again.


----------



## doghead (Jan 5, 2004)

Festy, any idea how the mechanics of this work?


----------



## Festy_Dog (Jan 5, 2004)

Not in the slightest. So when someone who knows how posts, it'll be a lesson for the both of us.


----------



## Douane (Jan 5, 2004)

Yeah, anyone know the rules 'round here?   


How about I start a special thread for In-character-action of all kinds  to reduce the "strain" on this thread? (That way we can easily discard it when the real game begins.)


Folkert


----------



## doghead (Jan 5, 2004)

There is alot of good backround material in this thread, but its quite dispersed. Would it be better to compile it into a new OOC thread once the characters and mechs have been transfered to the RG thread and the IC thread is started?


----------



## Douane (Jan 6, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> There is alot of good backround material in this thread, but its quite dispersed. Would it be better to compile it into a new OOC thread once the characters and mechs have been transfered to the RG thread and the IC thread is started?




*Doghead*,

my "discard" comment was directed at the "try-out" thread I suggested, so that we don't have further IC interaction cluttering up this thread, as we still seem to get someone interested in the game checking in every now and then. Besides that way the preliminary IC wouldn't get in the way when Jemal starts the game.


Folkert


----------



## doghead (Jan 6, 2004)

I understood what you ment. It makes sence. But things have slowed down a bit recently and hopefully we should be approaching zero hour.

Um, not sure. Perhaps its best to just leave it as is for the moment.


----------



## Douane (Jan 6, 2004)

No problem!

I had meant it as a way to have some further interaction between our PCs, establishing some of the existing "relationships", and to get in the proper spirit of things / mood for us players, but if there's no need, I don't have to worry about it.


As usual, I'm here to answer further questions should they crop up.


Folkert


----------



## Douane (Jan 6, 2004)

Urbanmech said:
			
		

> Is there any room left in this game?  I would be willing to play an Elemental or Aerospace pilot if the Star is full.  I am a long time Battletech junkie and this looks like it will be a lot of fun.




*Urbanmech*,

as mentioned above, only Jemal can make a final decision on how many players to include. However, due to his situation at the moment it might take some days till he can do so.

Still, since he left Paxus the choice between playing an Elemental or the fifth Mechwarrior, I guess that he would have nothing against an Elemental PC. (Aero pilots might be more difficult, since they usually fight entirely different battles, which would almost double the work for a GM.)


While I can give you unfortunately no guarantee on the outcome of Jemal's eventual decision, I think it might be advisable if you email me (email's in the profile) regarding character creation (as I'm handling the mechanic side of that at the moment), so that we might have a ready PC to present to Jemal.


Folkert


----------



## doghead (Jan 7, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> *Urbanmech*,as mentioned above, only Jemal can make a final decision on how many players to include. However, due to his situation at the moment it might take some days till he can do so.
> 
> <snip>
> 
> Folkert




Whats Jemals situation? 

If he is going to be away for a while, then perhaps the temp-ic thread is a good idea. I would like to try out the system a little.

BTW, anyone seen shalimar? I handle most of my threads through the User CP. I don't get to the forum pages often.

doghead


----------



## Festy_Dog (Jan 7, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> BTW, anyone seen shalimar?




Nah, but I've notived that she hasn't been around much lately. She hasn't posted in any other games I'm in with her.


----------



## Douane (Jan 7, 2004)

doghead said:
			
		

> Whats Jemals situation?
> 
> If he is going to be away for a while, then perhaps the temp-ic thread is a good idea. I would like to try out the system a little. [...]




I was talking about the thread Jemal posted here. According to it it might be some time till Jemal will get back to posting, so I thought it would be better to let *Urbanmech* know what's going on here.


Folkert


----------



## doghead (Jan 7, 2004)

I just checked the thread. Somewhat sobering.

In light of that, I think opening a temporary IC thread is the best approach. We can keep ourselves busy til Jemal is ready to get back into it. Are you willing to act as "system adviser"?


----------



## Douane (Jan 8, 2004)

"System adviser" is a good term. 

I'll email Jemal to let him know what we are doing and that in no way I intend to usurp anything.


[Edit: The temp. IC thread can be found here.]



Folkert


----------



## Douane (Jan 20, 2004)

Since that other thread never got off the ground, I think we can safely declare it dead.  (Sorry for that!)

So,

everyone still here?


Folkert


----------



## doghead (Jan 20, 2004)

Hey Douane

Somehow I missed your last post. I do most of my updating via the User CP, so sometimes I miss new posts that go up as I am writing a reply.

Jemals back, so we should know whats what soon.


----------



## Jemal (Jan 21, 2004)

Yes, Jemal is back... Everybody still here and willing/ready to go?


----------



## Douane (Jan 21, 2004)

Still here and still willing, of course. 


Folkert


----------



## doghead (Jan 21, 2004)

Here and ready to role.


----------



## Festy_Dog (Jan 21, 2004)

S'all good over this way.


----------



## Urbanmech (Jan 22, 2004)

Ready to help out if you are short a player or want an Elemental Star leader.


----------



## Douane (Jan 22, 2004)

*Urbanmech*,

did you get my email back then?


I always meant to email you about this, but the last weeks have been extremely hectic around here, so it kinda slipped my mind (along with a lot of other things). 


Folkert


----------



## Paxus Asclepius (Jan 22, 2004)

I am primed and ready.


----------



## Urbanmech (Jan 22, 2004)

> did you get my email back then?




I just got your email describing character creation.  I punched out some stats for an Elemental but have also been very busy lately and haven't really gotten down to fleshing out the character.

But it looks like we may have lost a few Mech pilots.  If that is the case I would gladly climb into the mech cockpit.


----------



## Shalimar (Jan 22, 2004)

I am still primed and ready.


----------



## doghead (Jan 22, 2004)

Hey Shalimar

Thought we had lost you. Glad I was wrong.


----------



## Douane (Jan 22, 2004)

Urbanmech said:
			
		

> I just got your email describing character creation.  I punched out some stats for an Elemental but have also been very busy lately and haven't really gotten down to fleshing out the character.




Yep, that's the one.

I can certainly understand busy! 


Folkert


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## Douane (Jan 22, 2004)

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I am still primed and ready.




*Shalimar*,

glad to hear from you!

You have been notably absent from the thread, so it's good to see you are still with us. 


Folkert


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## Festy_Dog (Feb 1, 2004)

*Glances about*

This still happening?


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## Douane (Feb 1, 2004)

I'm surely not walking away from a BT game. 

In fact, I  wanted to bump thread myself, but decided to let the weekend pass first.


Folkert


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## doghead (Feb 2, 2004)

Hey all,

I've started a new game - the nameless - and it has been little more demanding than I thought. I am going to have to wait and see how things work out in terms of keeping up with everything before I can say whether I am in or not.


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## Jemal (Feb 6, 2004)

DOH! sorry, kinda been having weird little while IRL, so haven't had much Online time.  I'm actually still working on some stuff with this (like i said, life's been weird+busy), so unfortunately you guys're gonna have to wait a few more days (really really sorry).  

Head of the Dog - really hope you decide to stick with us, cuz like Douanne said, I'm not walking away from this.


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## doghead (Feb 6, 2004)

Hey Jemal

I'd really like to but I've got a lot on my plate at the mo' with one thing and the other, and am feeling a little overwhelmed (not mention a little worn out).

I don't want to play halfheartedly. So at this point I think I should stand down.


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## Douane (Feb 24, 2004)

Hello!? (listens to echo)

Anyone else here? 


Folkert


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## Paxus Asclepius (Feb 24, 2004)

Douane said:
			
		

> Hello!? (listens to echo)
> 
> Anyone else here?
> 
> ...




I never leave.  When ENWorld is but a lost memory, my ghost will haunt the ghost of these boards.

So yes, I'm still in the game.


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## Festy_Dog (Feb 24, 2004)

Still here.


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## Douane (Mar 3, 2004)

Any new development here?


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## Festy_Dog (Mar 4, 2004)

*barks like a cricket*


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## Douane (Mar 22, 2004)

For anyone still interested:

I'm debating with myself whether to run a Mechwarrior PbP here in this new thread. 


Folkert


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## Festy_Dog (Mar 28, 2004)

oops


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## Jemal (Mar 30, 2004)

I was gone for a while, now I'm back.  For explanation, check out my "EXPERIENCE" OOC thread

Also, *groan* I hate to go back on my word, but with the very small amount of time I've got online these days, I just can't start this up and maintain the rest of my stuff.  Life's gone to hell and I apologize that you guys got left behind b/c of it.


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## Festy_Dog (Mar 30, 2004)

Its no problem. These things happened. Nonetheless, I'm very glad you set the Battletech thing in motion. Muchly appreciated.


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