# Catfolk: +1 LA just doesn't seem right..



## Three_Haligonians (May 8, 2007)

So,

One of my players is playing a catfolk. Over the course of the campaign, he has taken the character from level 3 to level 11 and, hindsight being 20/20 and all, the level adjustment he has taken for his race doesn't seem on par with the "missing" level it has required.

Being the generous DM that I am, I've been looking at the Catfolk racial stats and wondering what I could do to make it a little more even. I see two choices:

1. Increase the traits and features of the class to make it worth a +1 LA
2. Decrease the traits and features of the class to make it worth a +0 LA and then let the player take another class level.

In both cases, I think I would like to remove the +1 natural armour bonus that Catfolk get (I dunno, tough, thick hide is just not what I think of when thinking of cats). I'm also leaning towards increasing their low-light vision to superior low-light vision (so they can see 3x as far in low-light conditions instead of 2x).

So here I am, asking the collective ENWorld brain for advice on what you would do to accomplish either of these tasks. What would you add? take away? or just change? 

There is of course a third choice: That I am wrong and a +1 LA suites the race just fine. If this is your position, by all means - share your reasons here too, I'm open to everything

J from Three Haligonians


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## Quartz (May 8, 2007)

Which of the plethora of catfolk races are you using? Was the +1 LA about right - or good - at low levels?


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## Doug McCrae (May 8, 2007)

Races of the Wild?

+4 dex, +2 cha
40 feet movement
Low-light vision
+2 listen, +2 move silently
+1 natural armor

Looks worth a +1 LA to me, mostly for the stats. A total of +6 to stats can't be +0.


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## Three_Haligonians (May 8, 2007)

Quartz said:
			
		

> Which of the plethora of catfolk races are you using? Was the +1 LA about right - or good - at low levels?





Ha Ha!

Sorry.. I totally forgot to put that in.. even after I had thought of it when I started to post.

I'm talking about the Races of the Wild version. Even at low levels, it was a little rough for the player - mostly due to a lack of hit points. 

J from Three Haligonians


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## Blackmage (May 8, 2007)

You could just allow him to use the rules for getting rid of level adjustment introduced in "Unearthed Arcana".


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## Angel Tarragon (May 8, 2007)

Buy it off


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## Technik4 (May 8, 2007)

I'd be in favor of giving him more goodies to improve, rather than suddenly dissolving the LA. At lower level +6 bonus stat points is huge, and the rest of the race is pretty solid (if a little bland).

Maybe instead of removing the Cat's natural armor, change it to a Dodge bonus and let it improve (+1/5 levels)? That seems more cat-like to me.

But +10 movement, +4 dex, +2 cha, lowlight and some skill bonuses are hardly LA +0 territory.


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## Three_Haligonians (May 8, 2007)

Well that is settled then,

It's easier to make the race worth the +1 LA than it is to bring it to +0. The question is of course, how?

Turns out I am not the only one to think of this. Googling the subject brought me two past threads that talk about re-vamping the catfolk race. Suggestions there included: 

- A "cat-fall" ability that reduces the damage taken from falling.
- Some manner of sprinting ability - such as the Run feat, or the ability to move 10x its normal speed during a charge 1/day.
- The Pounce or rake ability [though I find these too powerful myself]

So far, I have decided upon the following:

+4 Dex, +2 Cha
Base speed 40ft
+4 to Hide, Move Silently
+2 to Listen, Spot
Improved Low-light vision (3x a human's sight in low illumination)

All I really need I think, is one more bonus or ability to further the "cat theme" and I'll be done.

Any more thoughts on what it could be?

P.S. The option to "buy it off" looks very interesting, I'll be sure to bring it to the player's attention.

J from Three Haligonians


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## Nyaricus (May 8, 2007)

Three_Haligonians said:
			
		

> All I really need I think, is one more bonus or ability to further the "cat theme" and I'll be done.
> 
> Any more thoughts on what it could be?



Cats are good jumpers from a stop - they just curl up and *plop*, they are about 4x their height off the ground on a bookcase or something.

You could not require them to have running starts on high and long jumps, and the DCs for them are not doubled - see more here if you don't get what I mean.

Also, Superior Low Light Vision is a great cinch for the race.

With those two abilities, I think you probably have cinched the race at +1 LA.

cheers,
--N


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## StreamOfTheSky (May 8, 2007)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> Cats are good jumpers from a stop - they just curl up and *plop*, they are about 4x their height off the ground on a bookcase or something.
> 
> You could not require them to have running starts on high and long jumps, and the DCs for them are not doubled - see more here if you don't get what I mean.




There's actually a feat in PHB2 that does this.  Leap of the Heavens.  Only requires 4 ranks in jump, so it can be taken at first level.  You don't double the DC's for standing jumps, and get +5 on running jumps.  Just give it to them as a racial bonus feat.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=4


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## Wik (May 8, 2007)

The catfolk in our group seemed balanced with the rest of the group from 3rd-6th level, and then she just kind of fell behind, only becoming useful when they needed a rogue.  The +1 LA is a bit steep, but +0 LA doesn't work at all.  So, yeah, add in a few abilities... Superior Low-Light Vision is great, and maybe scent or alertness.


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## Nyaricus (May 8, 2007)

StreamOfTheSky said:
			
		

> There's actually a feat in PHB2 that does this.  Leap of the Heavens.  Only requires 4 ranks in jump, so it can be taken at first level.  You don't double the DC's for standing jumps, and get +5 on running jumps.  Just give it to them as a racial bonus feat.
> 
> http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20060501a&page=4



And... that works too 

cheers,
--N

Ninja Edit: sad thing is, I own PHBII


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## evilbob (May 8, 2007)

In my campaign I gave catfolk 2 x 1d4 slashing natural weapons that they could use ("claws").  This seemed just enough more of an "omph" to get them to +1 LA, but wasn't unbalancing or overpowerful.  I had one player who loved the idea of "always being armed," and this ability synergizes well with the rogue class.

I also second the "buy it off" idea above.  You pay a few thousand XP and then never worry about it again.


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## Three_Haligonians (May 8, 2007)

Wow,

Apparently, catfolk races are quite popular in the gaming world out there. I searched some other boards and found a myriad of home-brewed felines, many with some nice ideas on how to be a cat.

I saw, in addition to what has been listed here:

- Half damage from falls
- Using Dex instead of Str on Climb and Jump checks [now known as the Agile Athlete feat from RotW]
- Light Sleeping: No penalties to listen checks while asleep OR the required 8 hours of rest to gain HP, spells, etc need not be continuous
- Scent ability


So. Lots of choices.

Maybe I should make a poll?

J from Three Haligonians


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## Geoff Watson (May 8, 2007)

Three_Haligonians said:
			
		

> Well that is settled then,
> 
> It's easier to make the race worth the +1 LA than it is to bring it to +0. The question is of course, how?
> 
> ...




What you've listed is really good for most Rogues (and Rangers); I wouldn't improve them any more.

Geoff.


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## Nyeshet (May 9, 2007)

Several ideas come to mind. 

+4 bonus to Balance and Tumble checks (tumble checks are good vs falling damage)

Racial Bonus Feats: Agile Athlete, Improve Unarmed Strike (only with piercing damage - due to claws), Leap of the Heavens, and Run. If they do not have claws drop the IUS. Maybe Run should be dropped regardless, although it hearkens back to the charging / pouncing of typical felines. 

I would also suggest replacing the +1 nat armor bonus with a +1 dodge bonus. It just makes more sense, as catfolk are not exactly depicted as covered in thick hides or metal / stone like flesh.

Scent would be too much, as would halving falling damage. Indeed, anything more than what is suggested above would likely be too much for +1, considering all else they get. As it is, adding two more +4 skills and four bonus feats is pushing the limits of what I would consider acceptable for a +1 LA. 

And, as others have suggested, the buy off option for LA is wonderful - especially for lower LAs. It would slow them down a bit at lower levels, then vanish at mid levels, allowing for some catch up. By mid to lower high levels they would be back in pace with the others.


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## Sound of Azure (May 9, 2007)

You could give them the special ability to use their Dexterity modifier instead of their Strength modifier for Climb and Jump checks (Same as cats in the MM) in addition to Nyeshet's Balance and Tumble racial bonus.

Leap of the Heavens would be a great racial bonus feat too, IMO.


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## Engilbrand (May 9, 2007)

Catfolk are easily worth the +1 LA. Right now, the real questions are:
1. What class is the Catfolk?
2. What are the other characters?
3. What sort of campaign is it?


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## robberbaron (May 9, 2007)

I'm with Engilbrand. It is easily worth +1LA as is. IMO.


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## Mark Chance (May 9, 2007)

IME, LA +1 should just be ignored. There's a mechanical advantage at early levels that most often turns into a mechanical disadvantage and middle levels. It all balances out in the long run.


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## lmpjr007 (May 9, 2007)

You might want to check out this for help with balancing the race: *Race Creation Cookbook*


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## Garnfellow (May 9, 2007)

I know someone within the last 6 months or so posted a link to a great off-site page with an LA+0 catfolk. I thought for sure it was Psion, but my Google and EnWorld searches aren't helping.


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## cignus_pfaccari (May 9, 2007)

robberbaron said:
			
		

> I'm with Engilbrand. It is easily worth +1LA as is. IMO.




Yep.

If anything, let them buy it off per Unearthed Arcana.

Brad


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