# Spiderman 2 Spoiler Thread



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 30, 2004)

Alright, I've got to start this. Just got home. I can't describe how much I loved this movie.

I can't really even slow down my thoughts to get things down...but I can say one thing right now: Looks like we know the next villain, and that was a big surprise to me! 

Must...sleep somehow. But...the fight on the side of the train. ALL the fights. Everything too amazing...I'll try to compose my thoughts more tommorrow. Overall though...I think my lack of ability to describe it shows how much I loved it.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jun 30, 2004)

I couldn't have said it better, AMG.  You captured my feelings perfectly.  One word review: Wow.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jun 30, 2004)

Before I go pass out...a question: Did anyone else find themselves having a lot of tear-jerker moments? Or at least strongly emotional ones? I thought RotK was strong...but man, seeing Doc Ock realise what he was doing was just powerful...same with his sacrifice...and Peter realizing what he had to do...etcetcetc. There were a lot of em.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jun 30, 2004)

Indeed this was a very emotionally charged movie.  For me it was because I was such a long time fan of Spider-Man and all his supporting characters and this movie treated them with such love and respect.  There were so many times I could feel the tears starting to form.


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## ToddSchumacher (Jun 30, 2004)

My favorite moments (out of so soo soooo many)

Hi..

Hi..

This is kinda heavy...


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## Celtavian (Jun 30, 2004)

*re*

I'm going to have to drag myself to the theater now. This movie looks good in the trailers and is getting good reviews.


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## kingpaul (Jun 30, 2004)

I thought that this movie was great.  I think my favorite comedic relief scene (out of so many as Todd said) was, and I'm paraphrasing:

"How'd you do that?"

"Ummm...exercise and eating your vegetables."

"My mom's always trying to get me to eat my vegetables."


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## beverson (Jun 30, 2004)

I can't agree more.  I have been a huge Spidey fan since the 70's, and this movie has it all.  They did an unbelievable job on Doc Ock's arms, and Alfred Molina was awesome.  And since this is a spoiler thread, did anybody else get a serious vibe that Aunt May knows Peter is Spidey?  That scene in the driveway she was practically shouting it, in my eyes....


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## kingpaul (Jun 30, 2004)

beverson said:
			
		

> And since this is a spoiler thread, did anybody else get a serious vibe that Aunt May knows Peter is Spidey?  That scene in the driveway she was practically shouting it, in my eyes....



It appeared that way to me as well.


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## AFGNCAAP (Jun 30, 2004)

They really hit it outta the park with this one.  I think that SM3 will have a LOT of expectations to fill after this one.

For a bit of fun, here's a guess at what may appear next in the series:

Pete & MJ are together, & the issue is now about the 2 of them growing distant to to work, plus MJ's worry over Pete being Spider-Man (much as with the spouse of a fireman or cop, each time Pete "goes to work," it could be the last time MJ ever sees him again--that stress has got to get to her).
Harry appears as a Goblin (either Green #2 or Hob), & he's hell-bent on revenge.  However, his personal life develops (intro Liz Allen) & he has to choose between revenge over the past or a happy life in the future.
Dr. Connors becomes the Lizard.  Spidey feels driven to save Dr. Connors (even though this may strain his relationship with MJ in the process).  At the same time, Spidey has to deal with Harry as the new Goblin (& this goblin's quest for revenge).  Could tie in an Eddie Brock appearance, too (see below).
John Jameson brings back the symbiote after one of his space jaunts.  Spidey gets the "suit," learns the truth about it, & then gets rid of the symbiote.
Eddie Brock rises from obscure reference in SM1 to background character in the next movie: he's out to "unmask" the Lizard, & doesn't care if he destroys a person's life as a result.  Spidey, of course, foils him & gives Brock a reason to hate Spider-Man.  Of course, the symbiote finds Brock, lets him in on a secret or 2, and Venom is poised to appear in the next film.

Hell, for good measure, why not throw in Black Cat to add to the relationship stress between Pete/Spidey & MJ?


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## Fiery James (Jul 1, 2004)

*How much can you zoom in...?*



			
				AFGNCAAP said:
			
		

> [*]Eddie Brock rises from obscure reference in SM1 to background character in the next movie: he's out to "unmask" the Lizard, & doesn't care if he destroys a person's life as a result.  Spidey, of course, foils him & gives Brock a reason to hate Spider-Man.  Of course, the symbiote finds Brock, lets him in on a secret or 2, and Venom is poised to appear in the next film.
> [/list]





Just a point of curiosity, the Daily Bugle cover with "Spider-Man No More" (or whatever the title was, the one with his cast-off costume) lists the photo credit by Eddie Brock.


- James


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## Fiery James (Jul 1, 2004)

Saw the movie on Tuesday at a work function and really enjoyed it, much more than the first even.

My only question: why was Doc Ock robbing the bank?

But investigating logic issues too deeply just defeats the fun sometimes, so I'm more than happy to let that one slide.

- JB


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## Taelorn76 (Jul 1, 2004)

beverson said:
			
		

> did anybody else get a serious vibe that Aunt May knows Peter is Spidey?  That scene in the driveway she was practically shouting it, in my eyes....



My girlfriend and I both got that vibe as well.



			
				AFGNCAAP said:
			
		

> Pete & MJ are together, & the issue is now about the 2 of them growing distant to to work, plus MJ's worry over Pete being Spider-Man (much as with the spouse of a fireman or cop, each time Pete "goes to work," it could be the last time MJ ever sees him again--that stress has got to get to her).



You see that at the very end when they show a close up of MJ at the apartment window.



			
				AFGNCAAP said:
			
		

> I think that SM3 will have a Eddie Brock rises from obscure reference in SM1 to background character in the next movie: he's out to "unmask" the Lizard, & doesn't care if he destroys a person's life as a result.  Spidey, of course, foils him & gives Brock a reason to hate Spider-Man.  Of course, the symbiote finds Brock, lets him in on a secret or 2, and Venom is poised to appear in the next film.



That is how I see it happenning as well, though mabey not his involvment with revealing who the The Lizard is. Pete just messes up Eddie's life and he seeks revenge.

I think the funniest scene was in the elevator  "It kind of rides up n the crotch"    that whole scene had me laughing.

A few things that bothered me were the B movie style of zooming on on women screaming, It happened several time and seemed very campy.  Also what was up with the "Jesus Christ Superstar" scene on the subway, when they are passing him back on their hands, my girlfriend pointed that out and said it seemed out of place.

edit: who thinks Doc is still alive? And if he is dead why do movies insist on killing off the villians?


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## LightPhoenix (Jul 1, 2004)

I noticed the women screaming as well, and while it was funny the first time, it quickly got old.  Also noticed the subway scene, with Peter being carried by the passengers.

Movie was good... I don't think I liked it as much as the first, but only by a little bit.

One thing that bothered me that I think should have been attended to, since I think it was a problem in the first one as well, is Kirsten Dunst.  Specifically, the fact that everything she says just comes off unbelievably flat.  She really needs some more inflection in her lines.  It just sounds so dumb, and not in the good-cheesy kind of way.

And Aunt May is one canny old lady.

One logical gaff... a fusion reaction being dropped into a river would produce steam!!!  I mean, that's basics there.


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## Taelorn76 (Jul 1, 2004)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> One logical gaff... a fusion reaction being dropped into a river would produce steam!!!  I mean, that's basics there.



But with all the steam you not be able to see spidey rescue her.


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## Kai Lord (Jul 1, 2004)

A few random comments in no particular order:

1.  I really liked the scene where Peter's shy neighbor brought him cake.  A total throw away scene as far as moving the narrative, but it really gave indication that the entire world doesn't revolve around Pete, MJ, and the villains.  They encounter other people too, who don't always end up as an evil villain to fight or a damsel in distress to rescue.  Just a nice little "world building" sequence.

2.  In contrast, I thought having Pete and Aunt May just happening to be applying for a loan at the bank the exact moment Doc Ock tries to rob it, and then having him randomly select Aunt May as a hostage was a little too contrived.  Sure that's a staple in superhero type films, but the first movie really worked to have each dramatic scene and action sequence evolve fluidly without such heavy handed one in a million randomness.

Its a really fine line to tread, I just thought in this instance it was a bit distracting.

3.  I realize that this whole movie is about Peter wanting to be Peter instead of Spider-Man, but for someone so concerned about the damage that could be caused by villains learning his identity, he took his mask off a _lot._  It made sense on the train when his mask got damaged and he had trouble seeing out of the one eye (we'll just ignore the fact that somehow two kids recovered it after he threw it off the top of a speeding train and that it someehow repaired itself...I know--When the kids said they "found it" they meant they found one of his spares in another dumpster somewhere--Hey Stan, how about a No-Prize?   ), but it was getting to the point where he ripped it off every other scene.

4.  I thought Peter's (funny how it feels more natural to call him Peter as opposed to Spider-Man; which goes to show how well they presented him as a character) attempt to stop the train went on too long for what he actually did.  I know it was supposed to be this Herculean strain for him, but I don't think they really sold how painful and exhausting it was for him to save everyone.  I don't know what I would have done, maybe add a couple popping sounds like his shoulders were dislocating, something extra.  Just yelling and holding on to his webs didn't seem like it was "enough" (putting his leg down and cleaving through the track was very cool though.)

Maybe they could have had him fail to save one of the people Doc Ock threw off the train, so that it was more emotional anguish that tormented Peter as he held on, pain for not saving the passenger and also fear of just how capable Otto might be of killing MJ.  Then when he collapsed at the end and the people laid him down they would have all been traumatized at losing a fellow commuter, but in Peter's anguish they find strength, and then in turn give it back to him.

As it was, I didn't think the exertion was enough to warrant the Christ-like manner in which he was carried.  Sure anyone would have been in absolute awe of someone who just saved them all, but I would have liked it if they sold the moment more as a scene of the passengers bonding with one of their own as opposed to reverently moving their superhero savior.

With all that said, it ended on a wonderfully high note; when Peter came to and had that "moment" with everyone, it was nicely touching.

5.  I thought the five minute or however long it was sequence in the cafe where Doc Ock throws the car through the window might be the most perfect representation of everything I love about Spider-Man; and it doesn't even involve the costume.  His powers: the Spider Sense, superhuman strength and agility; the conflict between Peter and his heroic alter ego, the drama and tension in his relationship with MJ, and the spectacular comic book presence and otherworldliness of his supervillain enemies.  All of it, right there, in about five minutes of consecutive screen time.  Brilliant.

It was almost disturbing how intimidating Doc Ock was as he carried MJ off, oblivious to her horrified screams.  Then that pivotal moment Peter took off the glasses and resolved to conduct the pursuit as a fully restored Spider-Man.  Fantastic.  When this movie nailed a concept, they _really_ nailed it.

6.  I don't see how anyone who's seen an Evil Dead movie couldn't chuckle at the "tentacle cams" in the hospital sequence, or the inclusion of the chainsaw.

7.  I'll say it again, Alfred Molina's performance was hands down the best supervillain performance of all time bar none.

8.  James Franco was surprisingly good as well.  Would have made a damn fine Anakin Skywalker.

9.  I thought Doc Ock's finale was a bit anticlimactic after the whole train fight, and especially after the fantastic resolution to the Green Goblin, but the epilogue with Harry finding his father's stash (I was really hoping the camera would pan to reveal an unused orange helmet of his father's) and MJ was _great_.  I really liked how MJ broke the mold of standard comic book movie love interest and made it clear that her feelings for Peter and desire for her own happiness were just as important as Peter's concerns in determining the final decision about their future.

10.  I know this would have broken a lot of "comic book" continuity, but a part of me was _really_ hoping that when Peter decided to be Spidey again after pitching his costume in the trash that Raimi would blindside us all with him pulling out a spare costume--and have it be the black version.  Okay, I recognize it probably would have been too early in the series to switch colors, but I think it would have been damn cool.    

11.  The more I recollect on the film, the harder and harder it is for me choose which Spidey movie I like the best.  I may just have to go see this one a few more times before making my final decision....


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 1, 2004)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> edit: who thinks Doc is still alive? And if he is dead why do movies insist on killing off the villians?




I think they left it open nicely to have him be alive if they want to.  As to why movies insist on killing off villains is because it gives a good sense of closure.  While in a comic book, where they are almost positive their will be another issue and therefore can leave it more open, movies usually have to go on the fact that each one could be the last one.  This means that they need to have a sense of closure and what better way for closure than to have the villain be killed?  Having the villain arrested or even loose their powers just doesn't have the same feeling.

Also there is the fact that so many Superheroes have such a large gallery of villains to choose from they aren't worried about using the same villain again.  Therefore they feel justified in killing off the villains since there are so many others to choose from.

With that said... I hate it.  I hate having the villains in Superhero movies always be killed.  Especially iconic villains like the Joker in Batman.  To me that was the first big mistake in that franchise.  Where as killing the Green Goblin in the first Spider-Man movie made logical sense because it was setting things up for the second and third movie.  Plus in the comics the Norman Osborn Green Goblin did die also.  So there was already a precedent for it.

Wow.  Didn't realize I had so much to say on the subject until I started typing.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jul 1, 2004)

Kai Lord said:
			
		

> A few random comments in no particular order:
> 
> 10.  I know this would have broken a lot of "comic book" continuity, but a part of me was _really_ hoping that when Peter decided to be Spidey again after pitching his costume in the trash that Raimi would blindside us all with him pulling out a spare costume--and have it be the black version.  Okay, I recognize it probably would have been too early in the series to switch colors, but I think it would have been damn cool.




I was kind of hoping to see a paper bag mask/fantastic four costume version myself.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jul 1, 2004)

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> I think they left it open nicely to have him be alive if they want to.




Definitely- I mean, do you _really_ think the tentacles are going to let themselves be destroyed? They'll pull Ock out of the river  in no time. 

The question is- what kind of character will he be when/if he returns? Good? Evil? Shades of Grey?



> As to why movies insist on killing off villains is because it gives a good sense of closure.  While in a comic book, where they are almost positive their will be another issue and therefore can leave it more open, movies usually have to go on the fact that each one could be the last one.  This means that they need to have a sense of closure and what better way for closure than to have the villain be killed?  Having the villain arrested or even loose their powers just doesn't have the same feeling.




I think it is that, I also think (sadly) there is a mentality in Hollywood that the audience will be disappointed with anything less than that sense of closure, and that the only way to get it is by killing the villain. Doesn't say much for society if it's true (but I suspect it's mostly the studio execs opinion of what public opinion is.)

Also, to be fair, mysterious "deaths" are a staple of comic villains. I think that movies don't leave them "open" enough- ie, the Joker in Batman. Ock's "death" is open enough for my tastes, especially given the whole "tentacle AI" bit. If they hadn't introduced that element (and I admit, I was cringing at first, but I think they pulled it off well), then I would say Ock definitely was willing to sacrifice himself. As it is, there is a second opinion on the matter.

On a semi-related note, I had an idea that I hope they do in the next movie (or even other superhero movies) and that is, instead of having every bad guy be a major villain in the piece, why not introduce some "one-off" bad guys, just to have the hero beat up and put away. Rather than having Spidey beating up random human thugs, for instance, start the movie off with him knocking out the Rhino and having people thank him for getting rid of the superpowered menace, and not even bother having Rhino be in the rest of the movie? That way, you can satisfy "fan fervor" for seeing their favorite villains, and yet not run into the Batman problem of throwing too many supervillains into the picture so that you have a mishmash of a story (and worse, overshadow your lead character!).

I think it would be cool, anyway.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 1, 2004)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> On a semi-related note, I had an idea that I hope they do in the next movie (or even other superhero movies) and that is, instead of having every bad guy be a major villain in the piece, why not introduce some "one-off" bad guys, just to have the hero beat up and put away. Rather than having Spidey beating up random human thugs, for instance, start the movie off with him knocking out the Rhino and having people thank him for getting rid of the superpowered menace, and not even bother having Rhino be in the rest of the movie? That way, you can satisfy "fan fervor" for seeing their favorite villains, and yet not run into the Batman problem of throwing too many supervillains into the picture so that you have a mishmash of a story (and worse, overshadow your lead character!).




I've thought something similar would work also.  It would have been nice to see a montage in the begining of this movie showing Spidey fighting a couple minor super-villains to give a sense that he has fought other super-villains in the two years that passed between movies.  I was thinking specifically Shocker, Rhino and the Vulture.  I think those three would make for some the best fight scenes in a montage of minor villains.  Granted I also think the story of Spider-Man would make a wonderful dramatic TV series, but would be difficult to due to SFX limits.  However thats an entirely different discussion.


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## Henry (Jul 1, 2004)

Fantastic movie - I just saw it last night. It's a 9 out of 10 in my book for sure! 

As others have said, Many moving scenes, and my wife loved it - she's not a huge Spider-man fan, but she's loved both movies thus far. She was as moved by most scenes as I was.

The operating room/tentacle scene scared my wife - there was so much movement, such a sense of fear, that it made her cringe just watching it!

They went through about 15 years of history in 2 hours; I'm impressed they pulled it off so well. And yes, Aunt May I think knows - it was pretty clear to me in that shot. In fact, I think she finally put it together when Peter told her about not stopping the burglar. There are enough clues for her - She met spider-man in person; she may have heard about spider-man's first appearance in a wrestling ring through the news; and his disappearances were becoming so common I don't doubt he's stiffed her on appointments before at times when SPider-man's making headlines. In 2 hours, it seems that everybody BUT the daily bugle staff knows who Spider-man is! 

Looks like they got Stan Lee's Heroism in this time! He was supposed to get a "saving a child from debris" shot in the first movie, and it got cut for time.

Question - was that Randy Quaid on the rooftop with the pizza, or just a similar-looking guy?


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## Mog Elffoe (Jul 1, 2004)

Fiery James said:
			
		

> Saw the movie on Tuesday at a work function and really enjoyed it, much more than the first even.
> 
> My only question: why was Doc Ock robbing the bank?
> 
> ...




It's pretty clear in the movie why Doc Ock robs the bank.  In the preceding scene he talks about how he'll continue his experiments but in order to do so he'll need money...


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## Mog Elffoe (Jul 1, 2004)

I loved this movie!  I felt that it was moving a little slowly at first but by the time the credits started rolling I was completely in love with the movie.  It was note perfect.  If I ever meet Sam Raimi I will be giving him a big hug.

My favorite bits were when Harry found out Peter was Spider-Man and then when Norman came back to visit him.  That totally blew me away.  I hope that when he flips out and becomes the Goblin (preferably 'Hob') that Willem Dafoe returns to continue playing his evil and wicked side.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jul 1, 2004)

Henry:

Stan Lee WAS in the first Spidey movie. He saved a little girl in a very similar situation...the Marvel movie Stan Lee wasn't in was X2(methinks at least)

Heh, I saw this movie twice in one day. The 12:01AM showing and then later at 4:00PM. The second time was so much better, even though I knew what was coming. I especially loved during the train fight, the jump through the bridge...and the two ducks he did. Each time that happened, the ENTIRE theater just let out a collective, "Holy..."


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## Rugger (Jul 1, 2004)

Wow. What a fantastic flick. Really.

BUT...

After Doc Ock, if they bring back the Goblin, I WILL cry.  I hope they keep the villains getting better (I though the Goblin was kinda bland in the first one)

-Rugger 
"I LovedDocOck!"


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## LightPhoenix (Jul 1, 2004)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> The question is- what kind of character will he be when/if he returns? Good? Evil? Shades of Grey?



According to ASM, 



Spoiler



Doc Ock becomes involved with Aunt May, which starts with... wait for it... Doc Ock kidnapping her and Aunt May being sympathetic.  And still being fairly evil.


  I don't think they'll do that, but that's what happens in the comic.


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## AFGNCAAP (Jul 1, 2004)

Rugger said:
			
		

> Wow. What a fantastic flick. Really.
> 
> BUT...
> 
> ...




I sorta agree, but I could tolerate it if:


There was at least 1 other villain present for Spidey to contend with/focus on: that's why I was hypothesizing on the next movie having Lizard (a redeemable villain who Spidey genuinely wants to save) & a Goblin (an unrepentant revenge-obsessed foe).
Or Harry (as a Goblin) either as a member of or the mastermind behind the Sinister Six.  Seeing the one-on-one strategy failing, I could see Harry looking for like-minded former foes of Spidey to gang up & go after web-head.  Then again, Spidey's chances of survival may be better if he just so happened to have a weird new black costume on at the time...

Though it'd be cool if there could be a 6-movie arc (capping with the Six), I doubt that actor interest (or even age, health, and/or ability) may be strong enough for the established cast to continue playing the same roles in the franchise.  Any hopes of pulling this off, IMHO, will be due to an approach used in LotR & the Matrix sequels--making them all at once.  It's a big risk that could either pay off (like with LotR, generally) or fall flat (like with the Matrix sequels).


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## Zulithe (Jul 1, 2004)

Saw it last night ... was blown away. You couldn't ask for a better sequel, it is right up there with The Empire Strikes Back. Even better in some ways! You couldn't even tell that they were filmed years apart ... it felt like Spidey 1 and 2 were filmed back-to-back, that is how seemless it is.

 I've read (at aicn I think) that they intend to shoot spidey 3 an 4 together at once. I guess we'll see. This could really give them a lot to go with, we could have a much bigger cliffhanger that way too. I think it is a very safe bet that we'll see The Lizard next ... possibly a two villain movie a la Batman Franchise with Harry as the Hobgoblin ... or hell they could just go the other direction and introduce an entirely new villain and leave Lizard/Hobgoblin for #4. Raimi is creative enough and has proved himself time and time again to be very capable, anything is possible.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jul 1, 2004)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> According to ASM,
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Wasn't he after a nuclear plant she'd inherited in the comic? (I was actually remembering this story while watching the movie and thinking, well, it kinda worked in the comic, but with Alfred Molina's obvious age difference with the actress who plays Aunt May... eww.)


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## Fiery James (Jul 2, 2004)

*Yeah, but why...*



			
				Mog Elffoe said:
			
		

> It's pretty clear in the movie why Doc Ock robs the bank.  In the preceding scene he talks about how he'll continue his experiments but in order to do so he'll need money...





Oh no, I got that.  I just mean, why is he stealing the money and NOT the equipment he'll need.  Like, after the bank robbery, does he go to Mad SCIENTISTS R US to purchase the equipment?  Is there a company that will sell him particle accellerators at a discount price?  

"I know you're a supervillian and all, but that bag of coins will cover the costs, and our motto is 'the customer is always right'." 

When he gets hungry, does he rob a bank and then go to McDonalds and PAY for his Big Mac?  

That's my question - why is it ok to steal from the bank but not the scientific equipment store?  (Answer: 'cause Peter and Aunt may wouldn't be at the Scientific Equipment Store!)

Still, I blame the limited (though cool) AI for the tentacles.  They were the ones who thought of robbing the bank!  

- James


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## AFGNCAAP (Jul 2, 2004)

Fiery James said:
			
		

> Oh no, I got that.  I just mean, why is he stealing the money and NOT the equipment he'll need.  Like, after the bank robbery, does he go to Mad SCIENTISTS R US to purchase the equipment?  Is there a company that will sell him particle accellerators at a discount price?
> 
> "I know you're a supervillian and all, but that bag of coins will cover the costs, and our motto is 'the customer is always right'."
> 
> ...




Y'know, this brings up a good point, as well as a key background character in the Marvel books that pretty much explains this matter: the Tinkerer.  He's the big underground supplier for many villains, and the one responsible for repairing/upgrading a villain's gear/equipment (esp. if the villain's not that technocally inclined to begin with).  To boot, the current _Secret War_ miniseries explains just why the Tinkerer does all of this hi-tech stuff for villains, esp. when costs for such tech are up in the millions/billions of $$, though the average "take" for many of these supervillains is in the hundreds to thousands of $$ range.

That would have been a cool background character to introduce in the movies--he could have provided Doc Ock with the components he needed, not to mention providing "tech support" for Harry during his stint as a Goblin (Harry doesn't seem like the tech-oriented type like his dad, Doc Ock, & Spidey are).


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## Laurel (Jul 2, 2004)

Saw it- Loved it-- actually I have to say I liked it more then the first.  Overall it had all the essentials for a comic & spider-man movie.  Heehee and Bruce C. was in it  

One question: Did it strike anyone else as completly off when after Dr. O delivers spiderman to Harry, Harry turns around and Dr. O is just gone- quickly and quietly? What happened to the whole 'thump, buildings shaking' that happens EVERY other time through the movie.... ?


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## kingpaul (Jul 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> One question: Did it strike anyone else as completly off when after Dr. O delivers spiderman to Harry, Harry turns around and Dr. O is just gone- quickly and quietly? What happened to the whole 'thump, buildings shaking' that happens EVERY other time through the movie.... ?



Didn't Otto walk to the balcony on his legs and then climb down the building with his tentacles? I thought we saw him begin to descend the building side after Harry turned around.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 2, 2004)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> Didn't Otto walk to the balcony on his legs and then climb down the building with his tentacles? I thought we saw him begin to descend the building side after Harry turned around.




Thats how I remember it.


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## Laurel (Jul 2, 2004)

kingpaul said:
			
		

> Didn't Otto walk to the balcony on his legs and then climb down the building with his tentacles? I thought we saw him begin to descend the building side after Harry turned around.



Sorry must have blanked on that one...   Just have to see it again I guess


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## Desdichado (Jul 2, 2004)

Fiery James said:
			
		

> Oh no, I got that.  I just mean, why is he stealing the money and NOT the equipment he'll need.  Like, after the bank robbery, does he go to Mad SCIENTISTS R US to purchase the equipment?  Is there a company that will sell him particle accellerators at a discount price?
> 
> "I know you're a supervillian and all, but that bag of coins will cover the costs, and our motto is 'the customer is always right'."
> 
> When he gets hungry, does he rob a bank and then go to McDonalds and PAY for his Big Mac?



Not to mention the fact that they were all gold coins.  I mean, I know we have the Sacajaweah dollars and all that, but really, bags and bags of them in the vault?


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## Dimwhit (Jul 2, 2004)

I love how much Evil Dead/Army of Darkness there was in this movie. The hospital scene in particular, but also others. Some of the camera zooms outside the cafe, for instance. Brilliant!

It was great movie.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jul 2, 2004)

Laurel said:
			
		

> One question: Did it strike anyone else as completly off when after Dr. O delivers spiderman to Harry, Harry turns around and Dr. O is just gone- quickly and quietly? What happened to the whole 'thump, buildings shaking' that happens EVERY other time through the movie.... ?




One thing my girlfriend pointed out the second time we went to see it was that Doc Ock can be quiet when he wants to be. Its really obvious because he does do the whole silent sneaky thing a few times...but then the loud crashing noises other times when he wants to scare a lot of people.


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## Fiery James (Jul 2, 2004)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Not to mention the fact that they were all gold coins.  I mean, I know we have the Sacajaweah dollars and all that, but really, bags and bags of them in the vault?





I assumed they were all Canadian $1 coins -- LONG LIVE THE LOONIE!



My sister says that Doc Ock was buying everything via mail-order.    I say he should have been stealing credit cards then.  Imagine - Spider-Man's foe is an identity thief -- not very cinematic, is it?!?

I'll accept the Tinkerer plot, settles everything in a nice comic-booky way! 

- James


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## KenM (Jul 2, 2004)

I saw it today, great movie. But didn't Mary Jane kiss Peter at the end of the first movie? I thought after that kiss, MJ kind of knew he was spidey, but she has to kiss her fiance to find out?


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## Mog Elffoe (Jul 2, 2004)

KenM said:
			
		

> I saw it today, great movie. But didn't Mary Jane kiss Peter at the end of the first movie? I thought after that kiss, MJ kind of knew he was spidey, but she has to kiss her fiance to find out?




After two years some doubt had settled in and she had to be SURE in this one.  Works for me.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 2, 2004)

As I understood it, MJ just got the idea into her head after the final kiss in the
  first movie that he's Spidey. Now she wants to be sure. The difference between 
 suspecting something and knowing something.


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## Kai Lord (Jul 2, 2004)

KenM said:
			
		

> I saw it today, great movie. But didn't Mary Jane kiss Peter at the end of the first movie? I thought after that kiss, MJ kind of knew he was spidey, but she has to kiss her fiance to find out?



That wasn't the point of the kiss.  She kissed her fiance that way to see if they had the same "magic" as when she and Spidey did it.  She obviously decided they did not.


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## mmu1 (Jul 2, 2004)

Did it bother anyone that Doc Ock, who (other than having those arms fused to his body) is a completely unaugmented human managed to just shrug off repeated punches to the face from a guy who's strong enough to force a train to a stop and hold up a falling wall? He doesn't even end up with a bruise or a split lip, but Spiderman somehow gets completely cut up. :\


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## Richards (Jul 2, 2004)

I just saw it.  I loved it!  An excellent movie, not just an excellent comic book movie.

Several people mentioned there being scenes that brought a tear to the eye.  I agree, there were a few of them.  But the one that really got to me was where Aunt May told Peter that she had thrown away all of his old comic books.

Man!  Don't even _KID_ about something like that!

As for favorite lines, I liked the one at the beginning of the movie:  "Hey!  Spider-Man stole that guy's pizzas!"

Johnathan


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## Welverin (Jul 2, 2004)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Stan Lee WAS in the first Spidey movie. He saved a little girl in a very similar situation...the Marvel movie Stan Lee wasn't in was X2(methinks at least)




I was a bit surprised he was in this one, I recall him saying he was only going to be in the first movie of a series a while back.

Also, he wasn't in either of the Blade movies, bu then he didn't create Blade.



			
				mmu1 said:
			
		

> Did it bother anyone that Doc Ock, who (other than having those arms fused to his body) is a completely unaugmented human managed to just shrug off repeated punches to the face from a guy who's strong enough to force a train to a stop and hold up a falling wall? He doesn't even end up with a bruise or a split lip, but Spiderman somehow gets completely cut up. :\




Nope, didn't bother me at all. That's just comic books for you.



			
				Richards said:
			
		

> Several people mentioned there being scenes that brought a tear to the eye.  I agree, there were a few of them.  But the one that really got to me was where Aunt May told Peter that she had thrown away all of his old comic books.




It's rather close to home actually, I could have inherited the first couple of years of Spider-man and Fantastic Four if not for my one aunt. I would have had to shre with my brother, but still.


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## ToddSchumacher (Jul 2, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> Did it bother anyone that Doc Ock, who (other than having those arms fused to his body) is a completely unaugmented human managed to just shrug off repeated punches to the face from a guy who's strong enough to force a train to a stop and hold up a falling wall? He doesn't even end up with a bruise or a split lip, but Spiderman somehow gets completely cut up. :\





Spidey has a long history of always pulling his punches in fights.


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## Viking Bastard (Jul 3, 2004)

Welverin said:
			
		

> It's rather close to home actually, I could have inherited the first couple of years of Spider-man and Fantastic Four if not for my one aunt. I would have had to shre with my brother, but still.



 *sob*

 I still weep about those boxes of 50s and 60s comics my grandmother threw 
 away. It was my dad's and his brothers' and I used to read them as a kid 
 when visiting. But one day my grandmother needed room for a new freezer 
 and to the trash the boxes went. 100s of issues of Silver Age DC and Marvel
 stuff, most in pretty good condition.

 *sniff*


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## mmu1 (Jul 3, 2004)

ToddSchumacher said:
			
		

> Spidey has a long history of always pulling his punches in fights.




If you say so... I guess my reaction to the movie can just be put down to the fact that I don't like Spiderman, then. Too much teenage angst bull and Lawful Stupid behavior.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jul 3, 2004)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> Did it bother anyone that Doc Ock, who (other than having those arms fused to his body) is a completely unaugmented human managed to just shrug off repeated punches to the face from a guy who's strong enough to force a train to a stop and hold up a falling wall? He doesn't even end up with a bruise or a split lip, but Spiderman somehow gets completely cut up. :\




I thought about that myself, but then rationalized it as having something to do with the tentacles being bonded to his nervous system, so they can override the pain sensation.

Maybe they can stimulate his body's healing processes as well, somehow? Dunno, but that's how I'd explain it. Anyone read the novelization? Maybe it can shed some light on things.


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## mmu1 (Jul 3, 2004)

BTW, I'm sure everyone could care less, but I actually got a kick out of the fact they used my college for all the school scenes. Even if they were taking a physics class in the main chemistry lecture hall, which was apparently located somewhere in the vicinity of either the english department building or my freshman dorm.


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## Caliban (Jul 3, 2004)

I loved the movie, but one thing did occur to me:

What's up with the University that Peter Parker attend? It's like the metahuman generator.

1) Pete gets bit at the science lab and becomes Spider Man.
2) Doctor Octopus was apparently associated with the University at one time (Prof. Connors knows him anyway).
3) Prof. Connors will some day become the Lizard. 
4) I wouldn't be suprised to find out that Oscorp funded a lot of research at the University. 

Also, a common theme from the comic book that carries over to the movie: Being associated with Peter Parker leads to insanity and the development of superpowers. 
1) His best friends' father. (Green Goblin)
2) One of his scientist heroes becomes a supervillian shortly after meeting him. (Doc Ock)
3) His best friend. (Hobgoblin)
4) His teacher at the university (Prof. Connor - The Lizard)5) A fellow employee at the Daily Bugle (Eddie Brock - Venom)

I know it's to make the conflicts more personal to Peter Parker, but you think people would notice a trend after awhile and start avoiding him (or seeking him out).


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## Mog Elffoe (Jul 3, 2004)

Caliban said:
			
		

> Also, a common theme from the comic book that carries over to the movie: Being associated with Peter Parker leads to insanity and the development of superpowers.




In the comics, the same is also true of J. Jonah Jameson.  He's directly responsible for the creation of the Scorpion and of the Spider-Slayers.


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## Taelorn76 (Jul 4, 2004)

I thought this was a great movie, better than the first one. But they failed t answer one question. Why were his powers failing him. They never address that. I mean were they failing him because he was doubting being Spidey? It was still a great movie and that did not really take away from ti to much.


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jul 4, 2004)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I thought this was a great movie, better than the first one. But they failed t answer one question. Why were his powers failing him. They never address that. I mean were they failing him because he was doubting being Spidey? It was still a great movie and that did not really take away from ti to much.



 That was one of my favorite parts.

We have no idea WHY he was losing his powers...so it could happen again. Not everything always needs explaining. Gets to leave us guessing, too. Maybe he was just having a bad couple of weeks, or maybe its something more dangerous.


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## WayneLigon (Jul 4, 2004)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I mean were they failing him because he was doubting being Spidey? It was still a great movie and that did not really take away from ti to much.



Yep, that's why they were failing. Remember the doctor's comment about it all being in his head. 

Man, that was one terriffic movie. I have to see it at least a couple more times, now. 

For a minute, I thought Skinny Blonde Girl was going to turn out to be Gwen Stacey. Thankfully, no.


----------



## Henry (Jul 4, 2004)

Ankh-Morpork Guard said:
			
		

> Henry:
> 
> Stan Lee WAS in the first Spidey movie. He saved a little girl in a very similar situation...the Marvel movie Stan Lee wasn't in was X2(methinks at least)




Actually, there may have been a special edition that put this back in, but the theatrical version of the film had him in it, but his rescue of a small girl was cut for time. I may rent it and double-check to be sure, but I remember him mentioning the fact that he was in it, but his "rescue" was cut, making this one all the sweeter.


----------



## Henry (Jul 4, 2004)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Yep, that's why they were failing. Remember the doctor's comment about it all being in his head.




My memory is faulty on this point, but didn't one of the early _Amazing_ issues have his powers failing him due to the flu or something? They lifted a LOT of different scenes and plot points from earlier issues for this film.

EDIT: Found this on a Geocities Website:



> Amazing Spider-Man # 12: "Unmasked by Dr. Octopus!"
> Writer: Stan Lee
> Artist: Steve Ditko
> Synopsis:
> Dr. Octopus goes on a crime spree hoping to draw Spider-Man into another battle, but it doesn't work and he's forced to kidnap Betty Brant. Spidey confronts Dr. Octopus, but he's overcome by a 24-hour flu which makes their battle a quick and decisive one. Dr. Octopus unmasks him, but since Spidey didn't put up much of a fight he figures that the photographer Parker was trying to be a hero. The next day, Peter feeling much better and decides that it time for a rematch.  Spidey and Dr. Octopus battle it out along the rooftops until a raging fire in an artist's studio brings an end to their fight. Dr. Octopus is apprehended by the police.


----------



## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 4, 2004)

Henry said:
			
		

> My memory is faulty on this point, but didn't one of the early _Amazing_ issues have his powers failing him due to the flu or something? They lifted a LOT of different scenes and plot points from earlier issues for this film.




I'm pretty sure in the past when he has gotten sick his powers have been funky.


----------



## myrdden (Jul 5, 2004)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I thought this was a great movie, better than the first one. But they failed t answer one question. Why were his powers failing him. They never address that. I mean were they failing him because he was doubting being Spidey? It was still a great movie and that did not really take away from ti to much.




Fantastic movie.  I liked it better than the first; and I liked that one a lot.

As far as the super power thing goes, I chalked it up to stress and self doubt.  It had to have been pretty stressful trying to hide his alter-ego and live a real life.  At some point self-doubt kicked in and it took MJ's abduction to re-focus Peter.

I liked the reference to tritium too.  I had to laugh when it was mentioned that there was probably not more than 25 lbs of the stuff on earth.  I've personally handled more than 25 lbs in my line of work.  The geek inside had to snicker.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jul 5, 2004)

Henry said:
			
		

> Actually, there may have been a special edition that put this back in, but the theatrical version of the film had him in it, but his rescue of a small girl was cut for time. I may rent it and double-check to be sure, but I remember him mentioning the fact that he was in it, but his "rescue" was cut, making this one all the sweeter.



 Now that I think about it...I seem to remember some thing about it being cut for one reason or another. But I know this...when I saw Spidey 1 on Opening Day, Stan Lee was doing the saving.


----------



## jester47 (Jul 5, 2004)

1. I thought it was cool that Aunt May came around and actually thought well of spiderman.  I was getting tired of her (in comics and cartoons) always thinking that spidey was a bad person.  

2. The scene on the train would have been a great opportunity to tip the hat to the FF paper bag spidey.  When he is on the front a convenient bag be blowing by.  Contrived yes, but very spiderman.

3.   I have a friend who is currently working on his PhD in stabilising plasma for fusion reactions.  He probably got a hoot out of this one. 

Aaron.


----------



## Umbran (Jul 5, 2004)

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> I'm pretty sure in the past when he has gotten sick his powers have been funky.




Not quite, but close.  Spidey goes swinging through the streets of NYC in winter, wearig nothing but blue and red tights.  He gets colds and flu fairly regularly.

Have you ever had a _really_ bad cold or flu?  102-degree fever style?  It doesn't matter how strong you are, or how fast, you're just figgin' miserable and distracted, and weak.  It can be hard to even see straight and walk, much less realize your spidey-sense is tingling when you're in the middle of a coughing fit.

Oh, and completely separate - there's a long, long tradition of Spidey running out of web-fluid at bad moments in the comics.  While the movies don't use mechanical web-shooters, it is nice to see the reference.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Jul 5, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Not quite, but close.  Spidey goes swinging through the streets of NYC in winter, wearig nothing but blue and red tights.  He gets colds and flu fairly regularly.




I am sure he has his Fuit of the loom Spidey thermals on underneath.


----------



## Lazybones (Jul 5, 2004)

I thought they were making the point that his loss of his powers was psycho-somatic, due to his feelings of doubt and lack of commitment to being Spiderman.  I had thought that it was due to his abuse of his body (lack of sleep, stress, poor food, etc), but the doctor scene really presented the idea that it was all in his head. 

I really enjoyed the movie, but here's my nits:

1) The doctor scene.  I was of the impression that a 5 second examination from any medical professional would reveal that there was something "up" with him.  How could a doctor miss all of the effects of his genetic mutation?

2) The car-through-the-cafe-window scene.  Given that:
    a) Ock doesn't know he's Spiderman, and 
    b) The car would have crushed him if he had NOT been Spiderman, and
    c) Ock wants to interrogate Peter; 
   How can this scene make sense?
   Also, at the end of that scene he throws Peter against the wall with enough force to shatter brick.  This would have killed a non-Spiderman Peter Parker.

3) Fusion experiment.  Okay, we're going to do this great unheralded experiment in fusion power.  If something goes wrong, BOOM.  So where should we do the test... Oh, I know!  How about downtown Manhattan!


----------



## Mog Elffoe (Jul 5, 2004)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> I really enjoyed the movie, but here's my nits:
> 
> 1) The doctor scene.  I was of the impression that a 5 second examination from any medical professional would reveal that there was something "up" with him.  How could a doctor miss all of the effects of his genetic mutation?




'Cuz in the movies Spidey's powers are also all in his head.  They're manifestations of his psionic powers.


----------



## WizarDru (Jul 5, 2004)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> 1) The doctor scene. I was of the impression that a 5 second examination from any medical professional would reveal that there was something "up" with him. How could a doctor miss all of the effects of his genetic mutation?



A doctor only can work with the tools he's given.  When I go to see my doctor, he's not going to be checking for retractable web-shooters and skin adhesors when he's checking if Peter has a cold.  We don't know about things like blood pressure and the like...and really, that wasn't he point of the scene.  Of course, judging by the tie-dye t-shirt, I'm not thinking that Pete's doctor is what you'd call 'conventional'. 



> 2) The car-through-the-cafe-window scene. Given that:
> a) Ock doesn't know he's Spiderman, and
> b) The car would have crushed him if he had NOT been Spiderman, and
> c) Ock wants to interrogate Peter;
> ...



It doesn't make sense if you assume that Octavius in complete control of his limbs and is thinking rationally.  I got the impression, from the visuals in the scene, that Ock threw the car before he even got there.  I suspect he didn't intend to throw it that hard, but he didn't much care after the fact.  The same applies to tossing Peter after the fact, and burying him.  Either his limbs weren't being very cooperative, or he just doesn't have a subtle setting on those puppies.  



> 3) Fusion experiment. Okay, we're going to do this great unheralded experiment in fusion power. If something goes wrong, BOOM. So where should we do the test... Oh, I know! How about downtown Manhattan!



Hey, this is Oscorp.  Saftey concerns obviously aren't at the top of the list of concerns.  Look at their previous projects.  

I'm pretty sure the intention was that Peter's problems with his powers were pscyhosomatic...but it could also be used for the classic storyline involving the Lizard: Dr. Connors becomes one of Spidey's confidants when Spidey's powers start going haywire, and that would dovetail nicely with a lot of storylines.


----------



## Umbran (Jul 5, 2004)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> 1) The doctor scene.  I was of the impression that a 5 second examination from any medical professional would reveal that there was something "up" with him.  How could a doctor miss all of the effects of his genetic mutation?




Last I was at a doctor, a complete genetic workup wasn't part of the standard exam.  Nor was a test to see how much I could bench press, or exactly how fast my reflexes were.  I've never seen a physician check for borderline precognative abilities.  The ony thing one might think is that the doctor may have seen the pinhole at Peter's wrist where his webs emerge.  How much do you want to bet that looks rather like a mole or a pimple or something?  



> 2) ...   How can this scene make sense?




By assuming that Doc Ock isn't esactly sane.  Which he isn't.



> 3) Fusion experiment.  Okay, we're going to do this great unheralded experiment in fusion power.  If something goes wrong, BOOM.  So where should we do the test... Oh, I know!  How about downtown Manhattan!




As far as we are aware, only two people know about and recognize the explosive potential - Octavius (who is certain his calculations are correct such that it won't happen), and Parker, who isn't in a position to question Octavius' judgement or do anything about it.


----------



## Barendd Nobeard (Jul 6, 2004)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> 2) The car-through-the-cafe-window scene.  Given that:
> a) Ock doesn't know he's Spiderman, and
> b) The car would have crushed him if he had NOT been Spiderman, and
> c) Ock wants to interrogate Peter;
> How can this scene make sense?




All this assumes that Doc Ock tossed the car through the window.  

But in the movie, the car flies through the window, everyone is pretty shocked by that, and then we get the "Tyrannosaurus approaching like in Jurassic park" effect--and Doc Ock appears from about 1/2 a block away, around the corner from a building.  

I don't think Doc Ock threw the car.


----------



## Richards (Jul 6, 2004)

Then who did?

Johnathan


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## Henry (Jul 6, 2004)

I'm pretty sure Dock Ock threw the car, but he missed Harry's remark about "don't hurt him," remember? 

Seriously, Ock was not in complete control, and was not stable even if he were in control of those metal puppies.


----------



## Nuclear Platypus (Jul 6, 2004)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> 1) The doctor scene.
> 2) The car-through-the-cafe-window scene.
> 3) Fusion experiment.




It's pretty much been covered but here's my contributions.

1) Just like with Aunt May later on, I was under the impression that the doc knew (or at least strongly suspected) Peter was Spider Man. That 'I, er, a friend of mine...' speech is a rather old (and lame) explanation. The 'patient confidentiality' also helps, not that anyone would believe the doc if he said he treated Spider Man. It's kinda obvious he's well liked by N'Yawkas: they helped him out against both Gobby ("You mess with one of us and you mess with all of us!") and Ock (the subway car scene) or the way Robbie clutched Spidey's mask. 

2) Maybe the car hit the curb while speeding and got launched through the window. It's not much different than Scientist Squid, er, Doc Ock shrugging off punches from Spidey. Besides, the arms have minds of their own.

3) Octavius was confident in his equations and his ability while Harry showed support by having it in the middle of the city. The previous Manhatten Project didn't destroy the city so why should the second one?


----------



## Alzrius (Jul 6, 2004)

The thing that tickled me most was the special guest appearance by Willem Dafoe. I remember at the beginning of that scene thinking "man its too bad we can't see more flashbacks with Harry remembering his dad" near the end scene with Harry...and then we hear the laughter...and then, in the mirror...

I totally flipped out over that. Honestly, when is the last time you saw a major Hollywood actor appear in a movie for less than five minutes, with three lines? It was incredible! It shows a level of commitment to the story, rather than trying to save a few bucks by not having to pay an actor a lot for just a small scene. Long live Sam Raimi!

Paradoxically, I'm not too hyped over how obvious it is that Harry is going to be the villain in the next movie as the new Green Goblin. I mean, I love the emotional drama in the Spider-Man movies, I do, but I also like the action, and I don't want to have the third movie have the Goblin redux as the bad guy. While it's great for telling a story, I want to see a new villain on the screen.

Sadly, this probably won't happen. Sam Raimi said in some interview I read somewhere that he considered using multiple villains in this movie, and decided not to (rightly so), so that'll probably hold true with Spider-Man 3 also.

Likewise, I want there to be six movies, I do, but that's probably not going to happen. Kirsten Dunst has, IIRC, said publically that after number three, she's out of there. Likewise, according to a recent _Newsweek_, Toby Maguire came very, very close to not being in Spider-Man 2, due to the fact that he had to personally perform a lot of stunts in it, and he was suffering from some rather severe back problems. It seems likely that if they try to do six movies, the last three might see some hefty cast changes, and that automatically lessens a film when its in regards to the same characters.

I'm hopeful for the future of the Spidey movie franchise, I am. Sam Raimi has given us nothing but top-notch work so far, but with the third movie seeming to be Spidey vs. a Goblin that's a close friend...again, and movies 4-6 in doubt...well...I'm worried.


----------



## Green Knight (Jul 6, 2004)

Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Green Goblin, this time with Harry. For one, Spider-Man will be doing something that no other super-hero film franchise has done before, IE using the same villain from a previous movie. Well, with the exception of the X-Men movies with Magneto. Although Magneto's pretty important to the whole equation, being the Ying to Professor X's Yang, and all. Besides, it won't be the same. It'll probably be the same costume and same name, but it'll be Harry, not Norman. Two different characters. I'm looking forward to seeing Harry's version of the Green Goblin. 

And yeah, I agree that it's likely that we won't see any more movies beyond the third, at least not with Raimi, Tobey, Dunst, et al. I'd LOVE it if they did, but no way is it going to happen. The Star Trek cast is the only instance which I can think of in which the entire cast came back for six movies, and really, did they do it because they thought there were more stories to be told, or did they do it because it beats looking for food in the trash bins behind KFC? So with that likelihood, I want to see the franchise, at least under Raimi with the current cast of characters, end with Harry Osborn and his hatred for Spider-Man, which has been festering in him since the end of the first movie. It can't end any other way.


----------



## WizarDru (Jul 6, 2004)

Green Knight said:
			
		

> Personally, I'm looking forward to seeing more of the Green Goblin, this time with Harry. For one, Spider-Man will be doing something that no other super-hero film franchise has done before, IE using the same villain from a previous movie.



 I'm personally hoping he colors the costume orange and calls himself the Hobgoblin...but either way, I always assumed this was how the third movie would play out.  Before, Osbourne's madness and the trickiness of it centered on Peter trying to protect Harry, to some degree.  With a battle between Harry and Peter, the tension comes from the contested ground between them.

 The difference is that both are known quantities to each other, now.  As soon as the new goblin shows up, Spidey will know who's responsible...but what to do about it?  And now, more than ever, MJ is caught in the middle.

 Two days later, and I'm still in love with this film.  It just hit every note pitch-perfect, for me.  I don't care about making every piece fit, logically....while I was watching, it all held together.  The emotional moments were powerful (the scene where May walks out was harrowing to me...but the follow-up speech was even more powerful), and the characters were all true to the comic's spirit.  

 And it was the little things that really pushed it over the edge...so many nice little touches, like having MJ involved with John Jameson, or watching Peter try to get a snack at the party.  It just was so obvious that Raimi was making a film with care about characters he understood and loved.  What with this, X2 and Azkaban, I'm getting spoiled by sequels that are better than the original.  I'd better be careful.


----------



## Joshua Randall (Jul 6, 2004)

I don't have much to add. Great flick. I too was getting teary-eyed in a few places (notably the scene where Peter confesses to Aunt May about his responsibility for Uncle Ben's death).

Man, between _Spider-Man 2_ and _Return of the King_, I've been bawling like a baby at the movies lately!

One thing I thought was kind of lame was the way the mini-sun fusion reaction could just be snuffed out by a bunch of water. Umm, right. It seemed like the scene was being all set up for someone (Spidey or Doc Ock) to have to manipulate the whatyoumacallit in close proximity to the mini-sun, thereby stopping it but also absorbing a lethal dose of radiation. But maybe that would've been too much like _Star Trek II: The Wrath of Khan_ when Spock sacrifices himself to save the Enterprise.


----------



## Arnwyn (Jul 6, 2004)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> The thing that tickled me most was the special guest appearance by Willem Dafoe. I remember at the beginning of that scene thinking "man its too bad we can't see more flashbacks with Harry remembering his dad" near the end scene with Harry...and then we hear the laughter...and then, in the mirror...
> 
> I totally flipped out over that. Honestly, when is the last time you saw a major Hollywood actor appear in a movie for less than five minutes, with three lines? It was incredible!



Exactly. _Exactly_. I nearly stood up and cheered when I saw that.

The cameos in this movie were nothing short of incredible.


----------



## WanderingMonster (Jul 6, 2004)

I'd like to explore some thematic motifs that are repeated in SM and SM2, but I'll focus on just one that I hope is a "keeper." 

Hose down Kirsten Dunst with cold water at least once per film.

Nothing says "distress" like a wet damsel.


----------



## Piratecat (Jul 6, 2004)

Hey, whoever goes and sees it next -- I could swear I saw Christopher Walken in the subway scene for just a second, right before Doc Ock used his arms to clear the aisle. Can someone confirm? He isn't credited, but I found out after the fact that he was considered for the role of Doctor Octupus, so it wouldn't be surprising.

Thanks!

Man, I had wacky superhero dreams last night after seeing it....


----------



## WizarDru (Jul 6, 2004)

Apparently, Phil Lamarr was a passenger on the train.  I thought I saw someone familiar at the party, but I couldn't place him, so it could be my imagination.  Sam Raimi was supposed to do a cameo as a thug, but I never noticed him.

 Oh, and dig this: it's the splash page from Spiderman #50.  Look familiar?


----------



## Green Knight (Jul 6, 2004)

arnwyn said:
			
		

> Exactly. _Exactly_. I nearly stood up and cheered when I saw that.
> 
> The cameos in this movie were nothing short of incredible.




Nice to know I'm not the only one. I nearly dropped a load in my pants when I saw him.


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## KenM (Jul 6, 2004)

I also loved how they worked in the theme from the old spider man animated show.


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## kingpaul (Jul 7, 2004)

KenM said:
			
		

> I also loved how they worked in the theme from the old spider man animated show.



Its been a bit since I saw the 1st movie, but didn't they have some guy singing the animated song there as well?


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## Green Knight (Jul 7, 2004)

No, he was singing some other song. "And we should all just give him a great big hug" isn't a line from the original cartoon theme song. But yeah, I loved how they worked it in, though. The bad vocals and the violin were an especially nice touch.


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 7, 2004)

Indeed.  I can't get it out of my head.


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## Nuclear Platypus (Jul 7, 2004)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Paradoxically, I'm not too hyped over how obvious it is that Harry is going to be the villain in the next movie as the new Green Goblin. I mean, I love the emotional drama in the Spider-Man movies, I do, but I also like the action, and I don't want to have the third movie have the Goblin redux as the bad guy. While it's great for telling a story, I want to see a new villain on the screen.
> 
> Sadly, this probably won't happen. Sam Raimi said in some interview I read somewhere that he considered using multiple villains in this movie, and decided not to (rightly so), so that'll probably hold true with Spider-Man 3 also.




Just cuz Harry found dear ol' dad's stash of exploding goodies doesn't mean he'll follow as the next Green Goblin / Hobgoblin. Harry may have hated Spider Man for murdering his dad but he wasn't superfond of him either. Quite possibly he'll get the cold slap of reality when it dawns on him that the psycho Green Goblin was dad and Spidey is really a hero. He's already realized that it wasn't any competition with MJ since Pete's always loved her and she's felt the same.

I'm probably one of the few that'd rather not see Venom any time soon but seeing a few second string villains get their clocks cleaned wouldn't be bad like the Shocker, the Beetle (with the song "Help!" playing in the background), etc.

They've already advanced the storyline since it wasn't til after the Secret Wars (and the symbiote suit) that MJ revealed what she knew. Anyone know when Harry and Peter buried the hatchet between them?


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## Umbran (Jul 7, 2004)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> Just cuz Harry found dear ol' dad's stash of exploding goodies doesn't mean he'll follow as the next Green Goblin / Hobgoblin.




Well, that's about how it went in the comics.  Harry Osborn was not mentally stable, and he spent occasional stints as the Green Goblin, sometimes working against Spidey, sometimes on the wall-crawler's side.



> Anyone know when Harry and Peter buried the hatchet between them?




In the end (Spectacular Spider Man #200), Harry died of a dose of a new Goblin enhancement formula that was too toxic.  Before dying, though, Harry went into a burning building to save Peter.  When asked why he did it, Harry got to utter his final words, "You're my best friend."


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## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Jul 7, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> In the end (Spectacular Spider Man #200), Harry died of a dose of a new Goblin enhancement formula that was too toxic.  Before dying, though, Harry went into a burning building to save Peter.  When asked why he did it, Harry got to utter his final words, "You're my best friend."




And because of that line alone, I can see that being the third movie. Very powerful stuff, there.


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## John Crichton (Jul 7, 2004)

Well.

I just saw it last night and was blown away.  I liked the first film but thought it was flawed in many places.  This one hit all the right notes from beginning to end.

The train sequence was great.  Ock was great.  I really hope that they can keep this actor/director team together long enough to tell a few more excellent stories.  It seems that Raimi really let loose and found a way to have his style mesh with a big budget production.  While it was an excellent comic book film it also felt very human at the same time.

This was the first film I've seen in a long time that made me want to see it again in the theater...


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## kingpaul (Jul 7, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> In the end (Spectacular Spider Man #200), Harry died of a dose of a new Goblin enhancement formula that was too toxic.  Before dying, though, Harry went into a burning building to save Peter.  When asked why he did it, Harry got to utter his final words, "You're my best friend."



Ah yes, I recall that issue now.  However, doesn't young Norman have a hatred for Spidey? I seem to recall him getting evil faces when beating on his Spidey action figures.


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## Datt (Jul 7, 2004)

I believe you are right KP.  If I am not mistaken I have that issue in my office at home and will have to check it out when I get off of work, before going to see this movie a second time. (Like how I made my OT post on topic?  )


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## Arnwyn (Jul 7, 2004)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Apparently, Phil Lamarr was a passenger on the train.



He was - I picked him out right away.

I also thought I saw Christopher Walken... but, then again - I think I see him everwhere...  D)


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## Joshua Randall (Jul 7, 2004)

Umbran said:
			
		

> In the end (Spectacular Spider Man #200), Harry died of a dose of a new Goblin enhancement formula that was too toxic. Before dying, though, Harry went into a burning building to save Peter. When asked why he did it, Harry got to utter his final words, "You're my best friend."



There can be a powerful love/hate relationship between best friends - especially for best friends who are both smart and powerful (like Harry and Peter).

The worst (physical) fight I ever got into in my life was with my best friend. And wouldn't you know, I don't even remember what it was about!


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## Shallown (Jul 7, 2004)

Okay I really liked the movie but had a few issues that have benn covered here except for this one.

Why in heck did Harry hear the green goblins voice? He heard it (IIRC) before he saw the vision of his father and therefore before finding the room.

I would understanding hearing his dad's voice. In fact I think he should have been bewildered when Spidey saved him at Octavious's and then started his decent into depression and madness. And occasional moment of should I just let it go or not then hearing his dad's voice and that would explain his outburst with Peter at the party. Then finally when Peter was revealed by Harry it would have made sense for Peter to say "Harry You have to believe me I didn't kill your father" Instead of the bull about not having time and that there were bigger things going on. I mean really, wouldn't Peter have wanted to say that for the past 2 years. Then at that time have Harry Sr. appear in the mirror and push Harry Jr over the edge ending with finding the lair and then hearing Goblins wicked laugh. I think it would have worked better.

Also Peter kept talking about his enemies... who Street thugs. I think they should have had a few flashbacks of him fighting something closer to supervillians. Otherwise he doesn't have any Enemies who could hurt him. Goblin was dead and Ock had just appeared. Confused me. I think the movie needed to be 5 minutes longer with a bunch of micro scenes to explain some of the flaws that bumped me out of my immersion in the film. After all its all about me 

Later


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## WizarDru (Jul 7, 2004)

Shallown said:
			
		

> Why in heck did Harry hear the green goblins voice? He heard it (IIRC) before he saw the vision of his father and therefore before finding the room.



 I think that's a function of Harry's subconscious knowing what his conscious mind refuses to accept....and the truth of both Peter and his father is what breaks his fragile grasp on sanity.  After all, he's been obsessing about it for two years...it's not hard to believe he would have started to connect the dots...and then tried to find a way to disbelieve it, IMHO.




			
				Shallown said:
			
		

> Also Peter kept talking about his enemies... who Street thugs. I think they should have had a few flashbacks of him fighting something closer to supervillians. Otherwise he doesn't have any Enemies who could hurt him.



 Tell that to the thug who killed Uncle Ben.   Spiderman is all about the guilt over that event...and he works vey hard to try and prevent that situation from becoming a reality again.  Even though it becomes something of a running gag in the comics first 20 years or so, where a legion of folks find out his identity; many of them safeguarding it without his knowing, or and an equal number of enemies who don't reveal it for their own reasons.

 Nickelodeon currently has an animated show (which my kids love) called "Danny Phantom".  If you ignore the slight alteration in format, the fact is that Danny is clearly inspired by Peter Parker, and much of the show's format is clearly a very close analog to the webhead and his adventures.  It's clearly inspired from those old stories, right down to having a green goblin-esque enemy who knows his secret, and the secret identity detente that forms around them.


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## Umbran (Jul 7, 2004)

Shallown said:
			
		

> Otherwise he doesn't have any Enemies who could hurt him.




Note that when this comes up, Peter isn't talking about enemies who can harm him.  He's talking about those who might hurt the ones he loves.  A normal steet thug killed Uncle Ben.  MJ would be equally vulnerable.

Plus, the Green Goblin had threatened both Aunt May and MJ before.  He loves these people.  Would he be much of a hero if he discarded the possibility that it could happen again?


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## Andrew D. Gable (Jul 7, 2004)

I saw it last night, and I thought it was great, like so many others said.  I would say it was most definitely better than the first.

So, I guess it's Green Goblin II/Hobgoblin next time, unfortunately.  I didn't really dig the Goblin too much, and I don't really want to see him again...I'd rather it be the Lizard, since they kind of set it up for him, too.  And Man-Wolf, come to think of it.  

I'm still debating on whether they should bring in Venom/Carnage or not.  I'd love to see it, don't get me wrong, but well... I don't believe they will.

It would be cool to go along with what Shallown said, though, if they would show Spiderman beating up on some of the peon villains rather than thugs.  You know, the really more-or-less worthless guys like Electro and Rhino and Scorpion and the dreaded Walrus. 

What was the other name the guy suggested for Dr. Octopus?  There were three: Dr. Octopus, Dr. Strange (), and something else.

I did like how they did the little Dr. Strange joke as it's kind of giving you the idea that there's more super guys out there than just Spidey and whoever his enemy is for that movie.  Even if they don't focus on the other villains/heroes, I'd like some indication that they're around.


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## Nuclear Platypus (Jul 8, 2004)

Andrew D. Gable said:
			
		

> What was the other name the guy suggested for Dr. Octopus?  There were three: Dr. Octopus, Dr. Strange (), and something else.




The scene went something like:

Hoffman: "How about Doctor Octopus?"
Jameson: "Too corny."
H: "Scientist Squid?"
J: "Eee-yuck."
H: "Doctor Strange?"
J: "That's great! But it's already taken. I got it. Doctor Octopus!"


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## Psychotic Dreamer (Jul 8, 2004)

I love the interaction between Hoffman and Jameson.


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## Green Knight (Jul 8, 2004)

> So, I guess it's Green Goblin II/Hobgoblin next time, unfortunately.  I didn't really dig the Goblin too much, and I don't really want to see him again...I'd rather it be the Lizard, since they kind of set it up for him, too.  And Man-Wolf, come to think of it.




These discussions about what villains should appear can really go in circles, when you come to think about it. Spider-Man has such a varied and awesome Rogue's Gallery, possibly matched only by Batman's Rogue's Gallery, that it's really tough to pick one for a movie. Going through some of the most notables, the list includes: 

Green Goblin 
Hobgoblin 
Demogoblin 
Doctor Octopus 
Venom 
Carnage 
Lizard 
Kingpin 
Electro 
Mysterio 
Tombstone 
Sandman 
Vulture 
Rhino 
Sin Eater 
Beetle 
Scorpion 
Kraven 
Chameleon 
Shocker 

I hope we never see Carnage, personally. But Venom would be nice, although only if they manage to get it to six movies. If they go beyond three movies, though, then they HAVE to end it with Kraven. No If's, And's, or But's about it. If it goes to 4 or more, then it has to end in Kraven. IMO, of course.


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## Klaus (Jul 8, 2004)

Hmm... Now that millionaire Harry Osborn knows Pete is Spidey, couldn't he hire a mercenary hunter to take Spidey down, a.k.a. Kraven?

Or maybe Kraven is after the Lizard, and Spidey has to take 'em both down. It's a way of having two villains in the movie without resorting to weird partnerships...


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## Piratecat (Jul 8, 2004)

I don't want two villains in the same movie, frankly. It's one of the (many) things that sank the Batman franchise.


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## Klaus (Jul 8, 2004)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> I don't want two villains in the same movie, frankly. It's one of the (many) things that sank the Batman franchise.



 Many, many, many many, many, many things...

... and they're all best left unsaid!

BTW, my favoritest part of the movie was right after Spidey stops the train, is about to fall, and the New Yorkers gently hold him, lift him up and lay him down on the floor.

Second favoritest:
"Dude, Spider-Man just stole that guy's pizzas!"

Great movie, but I'd still have Spider-Man wisecrack some more. At least call Doctor Octopus by that old James Bond movie title (dunno if it's bad form to type Octopu...y here).


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## WayneLigon (Jul 8, 2004)

Lazybones said:
			
		

> How could a doctor miss all of the effects of his genetic mutation?



Besides the other points brought up, I'm thinking that Peter is going to be going to the _absolutely cheapest_ doctor he can go to without it being in a back alley somewhere.


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## Numion (Jul 8, 2004)

Saw it yesterday, at the finnish premiere. 

It was great. 

It was touching at moments, funny at others and exhilariating in the action scenes. The fights were just stunning - thats what the fights between superheroes and supervillains should look like. They utilized their powers fully, not slugging it out like normal humans (with high strength) would've.

You just knew that it was on when Peter Parker rose from the rubble after the coffee shop scene. 

Before this X2 was the best superhero flick. Now I'm not sure.


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## Spatula (Jul 8, 2004)

Piratecat said:
			
		

> I don't want two villains in the same movie, frankly. It's one of the (many) things that sank the Batman franchise.



I agree 100%.  Too many new characters means less screen time and less development time for everybody (and the established characters, like the hero, will probably lose out the most).  I hope that Raimi continues to stick with 1 major villain per movie.


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## WizarDru (Jul 9, 2004)

Spatula said:
			
		

> I agree 100%. Too many new characters means less screen time and less development time for everybody (and the established characters, like the hero, will probably lose out the most). I hope that Raimi continues to stick with 1 major villain per movie.



 Thirded.  One of the things that made this movie work so well was that we got more of the existing characters, rather than spending the whole movie trying to develop totally new characters.  The movie deftly inserted Octavius into the existing framework, and then gave characters like MJ and Aunt May much more to do in the story.  Further, Octavius was well-developed.

 Compare that to the last three Batman films, where they kept piling crap upon crap.  Two-face?  Wasted.  I didn't even see Batman & Robin, which I am told makes me a lucky man, just like when I took a pass on Highlander 2. 

 After two good X-men films and two good Spiderman films, I can only hope that the Fantastic Four movie isn't too bad.  PLEASE.


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## Berandor (Jul 12, 2004)

I don't think it'll be the Green Goblin next time.
I think Harry will try to enlist someone else to hurt Peter.
Imagin Spidey facing the Green Goblin, and then finding out it _isn't_ Harry.
Perhaps Harry also approaches Jameson (Peter stole MJ) and gives him some of the GG serum?

Also, did anyone notice the jump John Jameson made when rushing to save MJ? I think he's Man-Wolf already!


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## Staffan (Jul 13, 2004)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> just like when I took a pass on Highlander 2.



Now you're talking crazy, man. Everyone knows that no-one would ever think of such a stupid idea as making a sequel to Highlander. Remember, there can be only one.


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## Quasqueton (Jul 14, 2004)

I just saw this movie last night. Loved it.

The opening credits was a cool way of showing a synopses of the first movie.

. . .

One of the things that I always loved about the Spider-Man world (and the superhero world in general) is that SM was not the only superhero. He knows, and everyone else knows, that there are lots of superdudes in the world.

I would love for the makers of SM3-6+ to find a way to show some other superpeople. 

Maybe the opening credits of SM3 can show spidey fighting some of the lesser supervillains. Some guys like Shocker and Rhino and Electro and Beetle could be shown without having to show their whole backstory (I don't even know their backstories in the comics -- to my knowledge, they just exist). Just get it acrossed in the movie that there are other suped up guys in the world.

******

Anyone else taken aback by how Octavious' cybernetic arms were not considered amazing technological advances in and of themselves?

Quasqueton


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## nikolai (Jul 16, 2004)

I'm afraid it didn't work for me. It was too schmaltzy, and too much like bad soap opera. I know the personal life stuff is what works for some people, in which case more power to you, but it didn't do anything for me. I'm not saying it was a bad film, but I don't think it was good either.


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## The NightWalker (Jul 16, 2004)

I really hope Sam does the right thing in the next movie, and not use a goblin-like-character as the main villian. I know the spiderman saga very well, and love the story. As well I understand harry's maddness/descent into darkness as an important part of the story... But having another Glider character this soon... would just be repetitve and lame.

I really hope they also introduce Brock as a Major player too... This may be the marvel Fanboy in me roaring... But.. I want to see Venom soon, dangit! I don't care if Sam cannot stand the character! If he wants to make the big bucks he will use him... Venom just has to many fans and he is one of.. if not "THE" most powerful and interesting villian spiderman has.

I'm not saying use Venom in the next flick, but At least introduce the black fan-boy favorite custome! Maybe Have spiderman devolpe a hulk-like-rage as one of his major conflicts. That way, it would open the show for piss on villians like shocker or Rhino.

The only other factor to this plea.. Is that for the love of the "True Belivers" not introduce both venom and carnage in the same flick! Oh... I'd also enjoy seeing The Lizard.


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## KenM (Jul 16, 2004)

I have heard this about spidey 3:  



Spoiler



Spiderman will be teamed up with Iceman and Firestar, it will be called Spiderman and his amazing friends. Made you look.


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## The NightWalker (Jul 16, 2004)

That's almost... worthy of a rim shot...


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Jul 22, 2004)

Nuclear Platypus said:
			
		

> I'm probably one of the few that'd rather not see Venom any time soon...



Well, I'd rather not see him at all, if it can be helped.

Venom is, by its nature, over the top.  This is much easier to handle in a comic book rather than a movie.  Comic book readers will (mostly) accept completely out-of-left-field alien symbiotes better than movie-goers, especially since they've built a very New York centric universe in the first two movies, which I think is a a perfect way of grounding the character and the story.  That's something you need in a comic book movie.  There's only so much suspension of disbelief you can ask of the average person.  To bring Venom into this context, they'd have to completely re-write the backstory, which would make it a completely different character, anyway.

Besides, Spidey is at his best when dealing with real life.  The movies have entirely borne this out.  And the fact that they've stuck to a human-centric story is one of the reasons they've been so successful and been able to land actors like MacQuire.  The mere presence of Venom pushes the entire story into a different realm.


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## Staffan (Jul 22, 2004)

Canis said:
			
		

> Venom is, by its nature, over the top.  This is much easier to handle in a comic book rather than a movie.  Comic book readers will (mostly) accept completely out-of-left-field alien symbiotes better than movie-goers,



They could use the origin from Ultimate Spider-Man for the symbiote, if they wanted to: 



Spoiler



Parker Sr. was working on a cure for cancer when he died, and the result was a symbiotic costume that strengthens and vitalizes the wearer. Peter found out, used it for about half an issue when he noticed it was also making him more violent, and then rejected it.



Plus, they've mentioned Eddie Brock a few times, so they've at least planted the seeds there.


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## Jeremy Ackerman-Yost (Jul 22, 2004)

Staffan said:
			
		

> They could use the origin from Ultimate Spider-Man for the symbiote, if they wanted to:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



OK.  That's a LOT better than the canon origin.

So I'm falling back to my back-up position: Venom is a stinky chowder-head.


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## Umbran (Jul 22, 2004)

The NightWalker said:
			
		

> If he wants to make the big bucks he will use him...




Funny.  Looks like he's makin' the big bucks without Venom so far.



> Venom just has to many fans and he is one of.. if not "THE" most powerful and interesting villian spiderman has.




One of the more powerful villains, sure.  Though Spidey has been up against virtually everyone in the Marvel Universe at one point or another.  But as for interesting... well, I just don't see it.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Jul 22, 2004)

No Venom for me, and please no Carnage.  I'd much rather see a Harry Osborn GG, or Hobgoblin.  But with luck the actor that plays Harry will be around for another movie.  They can have him try to have Spidey killed with another villian, the Lizard, the Scorpion, or some other classic foe, only to realize at the end that he has to do it himself and then he takes the formula and that would lead into #4.  Where the Osborne-Spidey saga is finished for good with Harry's death or redemption.  Then in #5...


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## Ferret (Jul 22, 2004)

This movie is my all time favourite. I loved the bank fight with all the coins spalshing, and the....all of it. But the train scene was epic. EP-IC!

Some problems I had was at the end when Ock reforms, to quick. "Uh.. oh yeah I'm a mad scientist. Best go sacrafice myself." Ok that was flippant but it seemed quick, and sill that he was talking, no reasoning to the arms.

But I loved the cafe scene

What I'd like in the next fil is for Harry to try and denie that the gobo was his dad, and try to redo the goblin suit. Make it say....orange  He does however start to strain over the visions of his dad. Also because he is nograt scientist he brings in Doc conners to try and fix up the Serum. However in a lab accident (blatent negligence by Harry, not carring about conner) Conner arm gets cut off. Parker is with him when he does the lizard DNA thing.

Meanwhile Parker is under strain perhaps he kills one of the thugs he faces, and all the villians he locked away (flash backs or small clips of him just after beating rhino etc) and he begins transforming. Cue Man-spider. Also if that tall blonde keeps making passes, and MJ thinks he's exploiting his superhero thing she leaves.

Now we have the back story with harry, Man-Spider vs the Lizard, two friends animal sides unleashed on each other. Maybe some very back story of astronauts, maybe even the hobgob suit funded for space use. Also Harry doesn't seem straped for cash, even though he talks about wasted money, having nothing etc. He gets the tritium, he still has his mansion. Not just a house.


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## Umbran (Jul 23, 2004)

Ferret said:
			
		

> However in a lab accident (blatent negligence by Harry, not carring about conner) Conner arm gets cut off. Parker is with him when he does the lizard DNA thing.




Didn't we just see Doc Conners in Spidey 2, already missing the arm?


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## Staffan (Jul 23, 2004)

Ferret said:
			
		

> Also because he is nograt scientist he brings in Doc conners to try and fix up the Serum. However in a lab accident (blatent negligence by Harry, not carring about conner) Conner arm gets cut off. Parker is with him when he does the lizard DNA thing.



Too late for that - his arm is already missing in Spider-man II. He's Peter's science professor.


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## Ferret (Jul 23, 2004)

I realised that but I missed him loosing his arm. Theres no reason he can't work for them, can any one remember what paper he wanted peter to do? They might not have him be a biologist (in the not chemistry or physics sense rather thne the profession) in this movie.

He can quit, a few science teachers I know used to work as research scientists. I can imagin him on his leaving party and peter has to leave, as he starts changing. MJ follows him..... 

edit:Although it isn't really nessescary if he has already lost his arm, maybe he's already been the lizard?


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## Staffan (Jul 23, 2004)

Ferret said:
			
		

> I realised that but I missed him loosing his arm.



He didn't so much lose it as not having it. They don't really draw attention to it, but he is one-armed in those few scenes he has.

He was also name-dropped in Spidey I, but I'm pretty sure we didn't get to see him. Something like Peter saying "I work as a lab assistant for doctor Connors, and take freelance photos on the side."


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