# RANT: Architects & Contractors: Stop building dumb bathrooms!



## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 3, 2005)

This is a pet peeve of mine: Bathrooms designed or constructed by complete idiots.

I first realized this when the American Airlines Center (home of the Dallas Stars...GO STARS!) had to renovate their _brand new bathrooms_ because the urinals (and some stalls) were in well-lit rooms next to large, plate glass windows- you could watch people taking care of business from anywhere in the parking lot.  YAY! :\ 

Then I started noticing other badly designed bathrooms:

1) Single-person bathrooms with privacy screens.  WHY?  I was even in one that resulted in spaces so narrow I could support myself_ off of the ground_ between the wall and screen...by just wedging my shoulders.  (For the record, I'm 5'7", 240lbs- not small, but no giant either.)

2) Bathrooms in which the arrangement is Door/Urinal/Privacy Screen/Sink/Stall.  Someone washing their hands is screened from scrutiny from the hallways when the door opens, but they get treated to a full-on view of me emptying my kidneys- was this room designed by a voyeur?

3) Bathrooms in which the sink is outside the bathroom?

4) Bathrooms in which both trough-style urinals and sinks are used. * Drunks cannot tell the difference!*

5) And all across the world- even in so-called 1st world nations, even in big cities...please- get rid of the "abyssal hole in the ground" style bathroom!  I've seen them in Cannes & Nice (France), Moscow (Russia)...don't tell me those cities don't have the money to replace them.


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## Wormwood (Dec 3, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 4) Bathrooms in which both trough-style urinals and sinks are used. * Drunks cannot tell the difference!*




*raises hand*

Guilty. 

/hates the trough


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## nerfherder (Dec 3, 2005)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> *raises hand*
> 
> Guilty.
> 
> /hates the trough



You wash your hands in the urinals when drunk?  Ugh!

Cheers,
Liam


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## adwyn (Dec 3, 2005)

I just hate the troughs. More than once I've encountered people trying to "squeeze in" at busy venues. 

On the flip side recently I encountered a recessed (2 feet or so) urinal that looked a lot like a dozen narrow fireplaces side by side. No splatter! Now how come a hundred years ago they understood what we no longer do?


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## Jubilee (Dec 3, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> I first realized this when the American Airlines Center (home of the Dallas Stars...GO STARS!) had to renovate their _brand new bathrooms_ because the urinals (and some stalls) were in well-lit rooms next to large, plate glass windows- you could watch people taking care of business from anywhere in the parking lot.  YAY! :\




What I hate about airport bathrooms is that when I'm traveling alone, it's very difficult to get my small (carryon-able) rolling suitcase inside the stall and the door closed without alot of struggle and swearing.  I can't just leave my suitcase sitting in the bathroom outside the stall, because security might run off with it, and if I'm alone, I don't have anyone to watch my suitcase for me.



> 5) And all across the world- even in so-called 1st world nations, even in big cities...please- get rid of the "abyssal hole in the ground" style bathroom!  I've seen them in Cannes & Nice (France), Moscow (Russia)...don't tell me those cities don't have the money to replace them.




OYE!  I hated these while traveling.  There's alot of them in Italy, too.  I learned to go to the Mac Donald's to go to the bathroom.  I couldn't figure out how to successfully use those hole-in-the floor ones - you men have an easier time of it, but imagine being a woman!  Not only do I have to worry about peeing on my shoes, but I have to figure out how to keep my pants out of the way.  I guess women in those countries don't use public bathrooms. 

/ali


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 3, 2005)

On my recent trip to Russia, we encountered the holes in the Moscow train station...the first woman came out horrified..."They can't AIM!" she wailed.

All of the other women managed to clench it up until we were well underway to St. Petersburg.


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## devilbat (Dec 4, 2005)

Ahhhhh the troughs.  Here in Winnipeg, the troughs in our old arena were hated.  People complained about them, it was suggested that we were behind the times and that humans required more privacy to pee.  

Then came the new arena, where there were no troughs.  Instead there was brand new semi private urinals.  The first event at the new arena resulted in looooooong line ups in the mens bathrooms, and what do you think the people were saying?   "Bring back the troughs" of course.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 4, 2005)

Just to be 100% clear:

I have nothing against trough urinals or trough sinks.

Its when they're used in the same bathroom that you get problems with people who don't understand which trough is which...  

One or the other...not both!


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## Turanil (Dec 4, 2005)

Aaaargh!!... Trying to imagining it all, I now feel nauseated. Berk!


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## Bront (Dec 4, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 5) And all across the world- even in so-called 1st world nations, even in big cities...please- get rid of the "abyssal hole in the ground" style bathroom!  I've seen them in Cannes & Nice (France), Moscow (Russia)...don't tell me those cities don't have the money to replace them.



I have been fortunate to have not seen any of these.

I've recently seen a bathroom where the urinals were so close to the doors to one of the regular toilets, that you would be unable to get out of the toilet if there was someone at the urinal.

Another bathroom where the wall extended out and they squeesed another urinal in there.  So in order to use it, you have to stradle the lip and put your equipment IN the urinal :\


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## Xath (Dec 4, 2005)

Wow.  I think that the handicap stall in the bathroom should be the closest to the door, not the furthest away.  

I love the street bathrooms in Paris, because I always know that they're sparkling clean.  As soon as you leave, the door closes and the entire unit flushes itself out with a disinfectant solution.  I don't mind paying to use the bathroom for that kind of hygine security.


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## der_kluge (Dec 4, 2005)

Public bathrooms aren't immune to this idiocy. The last house we owned, the default bathroom floorplan was idiotic.

When you walked out of the shower door, you'd find yourself standing naked in front of a huge window. Not block windows, just a regular window. And I'm not a big fan of the "toilet closet" that a lot of houses use. This is where you have a smaller room inside the bathroom which is just large enough for a toilet and nothing else. It wastes a ton of space.

This bathroom also had a door which led to the closet. That's right, the master bedroom's closet was accessed through the bathroom. Dumb.

I redisgned that bathroom myself - moved the door to the other side of the wall for the closet, removed the toilet closet, and just put the toilet in the open.  I saved so much space, that I was able to squeeze in an entire jacuzzi bathtub.

The builder said that he was going to use my design from then on out.

Thank god.


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## Ulrik (Dec 4, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 5) And all across the world- even in so-called 1st world nations, even in big cities...please- get rid of the "abyssal hole in the ground" style bathroom!  I've seen them in Cannes & Nice (France), Moscow (Russia)...don't tell me those cities don't have the money to replace them.




I encountered these in Turkey long ago, and I was told that the locals refused to use our version (with seats), because they found it unhygienic.

And if I could be bothered to learn to use the hole without fear of falling into it, I'd agree with them.


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## Ferret (Dec 4, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> On my recent trip to Russia, we encountered the holes in the Moscow train station...the first woman came out horrified..."They can't AIM!" she wailed.
> 
> All of the other women managed to clench it up until we were well underway to St. Petersburg.





Don't ever try to flush them either. I used one in france, the water came up past the foot-raising blocks......It was not clear water. 



			
				Xath said:
			
		

> Wow.  I think that the handicap stall in the bathroom should be the closest to the door, not the furthest away.
> 
> I love the street bathrooms in Paris, because I always know that they're sparkling clean.  As soon as you leave, the door closes and the entire unit flushes itself out with a disinfectant solution.  I don't mind paying to use the bathroom for that kind of hygine security.




I've also encounted bathrooms with taps activated by motion and pedals/knee presses. No hands involved. This was france, and I loved them.


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## Harmon (Dec 4, 2005)

I'm a carpenter.  

A few years ago I worked on a hospital- one of the buildings was a social services building that took care of young ones.  One area had a couple of tottler sized toilets that were behind a counter where people worked, so the kids would go behind the counter to do their business in full view of the people behind the counter and anyone could watch them over the counter, or through the window behind them that was the play yard.

Ya, architects not the most intelligent people, but think about this- some moron somewhere thinks that the design where little kids are in full 360 degree view is a good idea.

Don't blame the contractors, they only build whats on the drawn page.  Most of the time we're all laughing at how stupid the architect is that drew that dreck.


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## BrooklynKnight (Dec 4, 2005)

Can someone please describe or post a picture to these abyssal hole in the ground bathrooms i dont think i've ever seen or heard of them before.


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## WayneLigon (Dec 4, 2005)

Harmon said:
			
		

> Ya, architects not the most intelligent people, but think about this- some moron somewhere thinks that the design where little kids are in full 360 degree view is a good idea.




Given where it was, it seems very possible that it could be that it was specified to be exactly that, so that no-one could be alone with a little kid in a bathroom out of view of others. 

Similarly to why newer parking garages almost always have transparent elevators: the idea is that it reduces assaults on lone women.

Some other bad designs (though perhaps it's more a case of being unfamiliar with such things): 

1. Showers that activate in weird ways. A friend of mine has a bath/shower combo. When I went to take a shower, I see no way of actually turning the shower on. Finally I figure out that I have to pull down the rim of the bath's faucet to start the shower. Once I'm done... well, how do you turn it off? Turns out you have to turn the water off to reset the ring. 

2. I spent a week in a fancy hotel suite once. I'd never encountered the kind of light switches that turn off by galvanic skin response (or something) before. There were no light switches, just these little brass studs that looked like decorations on the lamp and the bed frame. They didn't press in or anything; you had to brush your finger across the brass surface. So I get ready to turn off the headboard lights and... can't. It was two days before I accidentaly brushed one of the studs while looking, and it turned off. 

Looking for other bad design, examples, I found this example of (literal) social engineering...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 5, 2005)

> When you walked out of the shower door, you'd find yourself standing naked in front of a huge window. Not block windows, just a regular window. And I'm not a big fan of the "toilet closet" that a lot of houses use. This is where you have a smaller room inside the bathroom which is just large enough for a toilet and nothing else. It wastes a ton of space.




That was my parents' new house- and the bathroom was on the front of the house, with the window not facing the street, but the neigbors' house down the street.

We put in glass brick windows next to the jacuzzi, and a stained glass window in the "toilet closet."




> Don't ever try to flush them either. I used one in france, the water came up past the foot-raising blocks......It was not clear water.




No...these were non-flushable.  Just.  Holes.  In. The. Bathroom.  Floor.



> Don't blame the contractors, they only build whats on the drawn page. Most of the time we're all laughing at how stupid the architect is that drew that dreck.




I will still blame them.  They could easily go "Y'know...you build it that way and people will be able to see rosy pink asses from the parking lot 400 yards away" or "Um...that stall is too narrow for anyone over age 12."


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## glass (Dec 5, 2005)

I was in southern Spain recently, and a lot of the toilets had a urinal and a normal WC pan, both within the same (lockable) area, so only one could be used at once.

We wondered for a while why they would have both, when you could plainly only use one at a time, until somone pointed out that the urinal probably uses less water to flush -a serious issue in that part of the world.


glass.


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## kenobi65 (Dec 5, 2005)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> 4) Bathrooms in which both trough-style urinals and sinks are used. * Drunks cannot tell the difference!*




In most places in the U.S., trough-style urinals aren't allowed in new construction (something about hygiene issues...).  About the only place you'll see them now is in older sports arenas.

Though, this reminds me of a comment I read once about Lambeau Field (before they rebuilt it and significantly improved the restrooms):
"It's 3 degrees below zero, and I'm standing in a ten-deep line to pee in a sink."


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## Fenris (Dec 5, 2005)

At the LA County Fairgrounds, in the Horse Racing stadium, the men's room doesn't have a trough. It has a WALL. That's right a wall. It's angled a bit and at the bottom is a small trough on th floor with drains. So imagine a highsided trough set on the floor, but with no lip between your shoes and the trough. 

Yeap, just a big black wall to shoot for.


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## kenobi65 (Dec 5, 2005)

Fenris said:
			
		

> Yeap, just a big black wall to shoot for.




And yet, I am sure that there are guys who can't even hit the wall.


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## werk (Dec 5, 2005)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> And yet, I am sure that there are guys who can't even hit the wall.




The bathrooms here at work!  C'mon guys, hit the big porcelan thing, it's not that hard.

And you know that a guy that can't even hit the urinal is not washing his hands...no way!


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## frankthedm (Dec 5, 2005)

adwyn said:
			
		

> I just hate the troughs. More than once I've encountered people trying to "squeeze in" at busy venues.



Reflex save!


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## frankthedm (Dec 5, 2005)

Harmon said:
			
		

> Don't blame the contractors, they only build whats on the drawn page.  Most of the time we're all laughing at how stupid the architect is that drew that dreck.



You are accepting thier idiocy as your own when you choose to craft it.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Dec 5, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Looking for other bad design, examples, I found this example of (literal) social engineering...




ROFL!   



			
				Fenris said:
			
		

> At the LA County Fairgrounds, in the Horse Racing stadium, the men's room doesn't have a trough. It has a WALL. That's right a wall. It's angled a bit and at the bottom is a small trough on th floor with drains. So imagine a highsided trough set on the floor, but with no lip between your shoes and the trough.
> 
> Yeap, just a big black wall to shoot for.




I think it was in the old Foxboro Stadium (where the New England Patriots used to play) where they had an ordinary tile wall to pee on and just a trench about 3 inches deep and maybe 12-18 inches across running the length of the wall at the base.  One shove from behind and you end up stepping right into the trench.


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## Desdichado (Dec 5, 2005)

I don't have a problem with bathrooms; I've been known to use a handy tree, with leaves for toilet paper from time to time (hint: pine needles are *not* good toilet paper.)

But I've seen a few weird things.  In Prague they had a bunch of restrooms with a women inside you had to pay before you could use it.  And there was a restroom in Toronto where a woman came in and started cleaning while me and a few other gentlemen were still standing at the urinals.

I'm not fond of people who use me to get off on weird urination voyeur fetishes.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 5, 2005)

I lived in Germany for 3 years...I'm used to the cleaning ladies in the bathroom.

However, I must say that on my trip to Russia, I noticed something else...those people are TALL.

I don't know what the average height of a Moscovite is, but I'm 5'7", and I ran into urinals that made me feel like an 8 year old without a kiddie urinal available- some had lips so high I almost had to stand on tiptoes to use...or drape myself into it...  

Seriously- some were almost waist high on me!  (And no, there weren't any kiddie ones either!)


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## kenobi65 (Dec 5, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> In Prague they had a bunch of restrooms with a women inside you had to pay before you could use it.




Ah, yes, I recall those from my visit there.  I also recall:

- For your payment of a few kopeks, you were also given some bathroom tissue...IIRC, three sheets of paper of the same approximate grade that they used to print "Thor" on.  Our tour guide *strongly* suggested we bring along those little packs of Kleenex for just such emergencies.

- The smell...ooooh, gods, the smell...


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## kenobi65 (Dec 5, 2005)

werk said:
			
		

> And you know that a guy that can't even hit the urinal is not washing his hands...no way!




Definitely not.  It's also probably the same kind of guy who uses the toilet in the men's room for #1 without flipping up the seat, and making a mess all over that, too.

(I'm reminded of Sean K Reynolds noting that he tries to not shake hands with people at conventions because way too many of them don't wash their hands after using the bathroom, and he's come home from too many cons sick as a dog as a result...)


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## sniffles (Dec 5, 2005)

Jubilee said:
			
		

> What I hate about airport bathrooms is that when I'm traveling alone, it's very difficult to get my small (carryon-able) rolling suitcase inside the stall and the door closed without alot of struggle and swearing.  I can't just leave my suitcase sitting in the bathroom outside the stall, because security might run off with it, and if I'm alone, I don't have anyone to watch my suitcase for me.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Women in those countries apparently don't wear pants.     I found the same problem in Japan. The Japanese have lovely home bathrooms overall - the tub/shower area is in a completely separate room, so no problems of the hubby needing to take a leak while the wifey is in the bath, and water heaters that heat the water as it flows instead of storing it up, so you can never run out of hot water even if 8 people take a shower one after the other. But those hole-in-the-floor toilets are the worst, especially if you've had a bad reaction to strange water...   

Women have worse problems in public restrooms than men, IMHO.   First of all, why has it never occurred to builders of public spaces that you need more and larger bathrooms for women? We have to get partially undressed and sit down to pee! And I think it can be scientifically proven that women go to the bathroom more often than men. Surely that would tell the architects that they should include more than three stalls in the restroom. Many womens' restroom stalls don't offer enough room to get in with a large purse, let alone luggage, as Jubilee points out. There's no place to put your purse and coat, or insufficient space for both. You have to lean over the toilet to close the door. And often the stall doors are so small that you barely get any privacy at all. Then there's only one sink in a bathroom with four stalls. And don't get me started about how much I despise the air dryers...


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## frankthedm (Dec 6, 2005)

sniffles said:
			
		

> Women have worse problems in public restrooms than men, IMHO.   First of all, why has it never occurred to builders of public spaces that you need more and larger bathrooms for women?



The people designing the building hate women? This is Japan you are talking about after all.


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## fusangite (Dec 6, 2005)

Almost all problems with men's bathrooms could be solved by making them identical to women's bathrooms. Sure, lineups would be a little longer at peak times but because men are almost always given equal public bathroom space to women and capacity is judged by how long the line to the women's bathroom is, such events would be rare in the extreme. And I'd be happy to line up for 5 minutes after opening night of a movie if it meant that society were working to eradicate a whole lot of instances of me witnessing things I'd rather not.


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## Harmon (Dec 6, 2005)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> You are accepting thier idiocy as your own when you choose to craft it.




It really sucks when you have to build something that your laughing at- "what was thie idiot thinking when he drew this," you show the boss and he laughs and calls the architect, and he gets mad cause they are like Doctors- Gods in the own mind.

When I was building a hospital here in Salinas a few years back one of the architects would seek me out and I would point out all the stupid stuff to him (fire doors that had no rail on the botton, and had a reaction to convection through the halls, or the chevrons that had cancer causing materials on it right infront of the air in take).

You think bathrooms are badly designed.  I could tell you lots of stories of buildings that I have worked on- okay, stopping there.


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## Xath (Dec 6, 2005)

One issue I have with public bathrooms is doors.  I hate, _hate_ going into a public bathroom, taking advantage of the facilities, washing my hands, and then having to touch the door handle.  I know that a lot of people do not wash their hands before exiting the bathroom, and I can only imagine what grossness I am touching every time I have to open a door to leave the bathroom.

I've seen some bathrooms where you follow a winding path to get in, and there are no doors.  I love these, though I understand that they're only practical for large public facilities.


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 6, 2005)

I've become very good at opening bathroom doors with parts of my body other than my hands.  And not just because I work at a hospital.


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## Harmon (Dec 7, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> One issue I have with public bathrooms is doors.  I hate, _hate_ going into a public bathroom, taking advantage of the facilities, washing my hands, and then having to touch the door handle.  I know that a lot of people do not wash their hands before exiting the bathroom, and I can only imagine what grossness I am touching every time I have to open a door to leave the bathroom.




Wash your hands- keep the paper towel in you hand, grab the door handle, open the door, stop the door with your foot and toss the paper towel towards the garbage, step outside the bathroom without touching the handle after you have washed your hands.      Works for me (when I remember to wash my hands)   .


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## Xath (Dec 7, 2005)

That only works when the trashcan is near the door.


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## sniffles (Dec 7, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> One issue I have with public bathrooms is doors.  I hate, _hate_ going into a public bathroom, taking advantage of the facilities, washing my hands, and then having to touch the door handle.  I know that a lot of people do not wash their hands before exiting the bathroom, and I can only imagine what grossness I am touching every time I have to open a door to leave the bathroom.
> 
> I've seen some bathrooms where you follow a winding path to get in, and there are no doors.  I love these, though I understand that they're only practical for large public facilities.



Washing before you leave is good, and I would definitely support that, along with using a paper towel to cover the doorknob. But I would like to take this opportunity to ask you all to practice another hygiene improvement: when you cough in public, do NOT cover your mouth with the palm of your hand!!! First you spit germs on your hand, then you touch doorknobs, handle office supplies or merchandise, touch your family members... This spreads disease much more than not washing after toileting! Cough into the front of your jacket or the crook of your elbow, or a napkin or tissue if you have one available. Please!! 

Okay, health/hygiene rant over.


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## PowerWordDumb (Dec 7, 2005)

nerfherder said:
			
		

> You wash your hands in the urinals when drunk?  Ugh!




As long as you don't help yourself to the free breathmints afterwards, it's all good.


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## PowerWordDumb (Dec 7, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> In Prague they had a bunch of restrooms with a women inside you had to pay before you could use it.




Even a working girl deserves to make a living, but I resent you calling her "it".


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## frankthedm (Dec 8, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> That only works when the trashcan is near the door.



It works regardless if the trashcan is near the door, if there is not, just chuck to the floor.


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## frankthedm (Dec 8, 2005)

Harmon said:
			
		

> You think bathrooms are badly designed.  I could tell you lots of stories of buildings that I have worked on- okay, stopping there.



Lets hear about them, [maybe in a new thread.] I have an arcitect in my group who often has me in stiches about bad building plans.


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## Kahuna Burger (Dec 8, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> And I'm not a big fan of the "toilet closet" that a lot of houses use. This is where you have a smaller room inside the bathroom which is just large enough for a toilet and nothing else. It wastes a ton of space.




I think the idea is that a couple who are toilet-shy can nonetheless use the bathroom at the same time in the morning, so one is brushing teeth while the other is taking a dump, etc. Plus if there is a fan in the toilet closet, you avoid the issue some couples have of "AUGH! I need a gas mask before I can shower! I'm going first tommorrow!"    So the space wouldn;t be wasted for a couple that benefited from it. 

edit: the hotel I stayed in in hawaii had the bathroom built into the master bedroom except the toilet closet being seperate. It was great because we could close the baby out of the dangerous/gross part of the bathroom.



> This bathroom also had a door which led to the closet. That's right, the master bedroom's closet was accessed through the bathroom. Dumb.




Again, dumb for you maybe, but I would love that! Towel off and step right into the walk in to get dressed? Awesome!



> I redisgned that bathroom myself - moved the door to the other side of the wall for the closet, removed the toilet closet, and just put the toilet in the open.  I saved so much space, that I was able to squeeze in an entire jacuzzi bathtub.
> 
> The builder said that he was going to use my design from then on out.
> 
> Thank god.



huh, I'm glad you got the bathroom you wanted and a jacuzzi tub is cool, but the builder would be much wiser to offer both styles, as one isn't objectively better than the other, depending on use.


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## Harmon (Dec 8, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> That only works when the trashcan is near the door.




There is usually one outside the door in a public building.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 8, 2005)

2 more:

#1
Just experienced this today while taking my mom on a shopping spree of sorts.  A women's clothing store with one bathroom.

Located all the way in back of the changing rooms.

Its a good thing it was a slow day, otherwise, there would have been many screams as I ran for it.  I'm on diuretics for my high blood pressure- Furosimide does not ask- it _demands._

#2
Youth hostel in Italy.  4 beds in the room, which has its own facilities (a rarity)!  The toilet is in its own room yay!... but the free-standing shower is in the main room, 2 feet away from one of the beds.  Directly across from the room's entryway, and fairly close to the window.

The shower curtain was transparent.

And there was no towel rack within reach of the shower.

If yours was the bed closest to the shower, you could make a quick reach.  Anyone else had a little running to do.


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## Bront (Dec 9, 2005)

sniffles said:
			
		

> Women in those countries apparently don't wear pants.     I found the same problem in Japan. The Japanese have lovely home bathrooms overall - the tub/shower area is in a completely separate room, so no problems of the hubby needing to take a leak while the wifey is in the bath, and water heaters that heat the water as it flows instead of storing it up, so you can never run out of hot water even if 8 people take a shower one after the other. But those hole-in-the-floor toilets are the worst, especially if you've had a bad reaction to strange water...
> 
> Women have worse problems in public restrooms than men, IMHO.   First of all, why has it never occurred to builders of public spaces that you need more and larger bathrooms for women? We have to get partially undressed and sit down to pee! And I think it can be scientifically proven that women go to the bathroom more often than men. Surely that would tell the architects that they should include more than three stalls in the restroom. Many womens' restroom stalls don't offer enough room to get in with a large purse, let alone luggage, as Jubilee points out. There's no place to put your purse and coat, or insufficient space for both. You have to lean over the toilet to close the door. And often the stall doors are so small that you barely get any privacy at all. Then there's only one sink in a bathroom with four stalls. And don't get me started about how much I despise the air dryers...



The heat as you go waterheaters are available here.  I know some people who have them, and I almost got one myself, and would have if the cost hadn't ben prohibitive.  As it stands, I have a fairly good water heater that recovers very well.

I think in Chicago, there's an ordinance that women's bathrooms need to be some % bigger than men's bathrooms, since they need more space due to a lack of urinals as well as room in the stalls.


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## mythusmage (Dec 9, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Given where it was, it seems very possible that it could be that it was specified to be exactly that, so that no-one could be alone with a little kid in a bathroom out of view of others.




And small children don't care. In most any kindergarten there will be occasions when children will be gathered together gabbing about something while one is having a poop. Most small children in the U.S. live in homes where they do their business under the watchful eye of their parents, so doing it where other adults can keep an eye on them is no problem. Has a big advantage in that they can't lock themselves in.


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## Algolei (Dec 9, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> Ahhhhh the troughs.  Here in Winnipeg, the troughs in our old arena were hated.  People complained about them, it was suggested that we were behind the times and that humans required more privacy to pee.
> 
> Then came the new arena, where there were no troughs.  Instead there was brand new semi private urinals.  The first event at the new arena resulted in looooooong line ups in the mens bathrooms, and what do you think the people were saying?   "Bring back the troughs" of course.



My father taught the guys who installed the elevators in that thing.  One word of advice:  Do Not Pee In The Elevators.

 I've probably already said too much.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 15, 2010)

_Casting Raise Thread..._

OK, things haven't gotten any better.  This year, I have encountered:


A Multi-person bathroom with urinal spaces that-AGAIN!- were so small that I could wedge myself in for a hover-piss
Toilet stalls in which I had to ride sidesaddle because he TP dispenser was installed about 1cm from the toilet- no space to put my leg
Toilet stalls in which the TP dispenser was located 2+ feet from the toilet- what is someone in a wheelchair supposed to do?
Toilets with singing pipes: I just left one in a hospital where turning on the hot water from the sink gets you the dropping devil-groan from Ronnie James Dio's _Holy Diver_.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 16, 2010)

best mens room was in an club, now gone, it was the wall!  Some one just took some bricks and layed them six inches away and just had water running down the wall.  On the wall in BIG RED letters, piss here!!! 

One of the worst, was when they were building a high school...they forgot to put in drainage for the shower rooms.


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## Merkuri (Oct 16, 2010)

One of the oddest bathrooms I've seen was a "nested" bathroom.  It was in some random gas station.  It was a private unisex bathroom.  As you entered the toilet was right in front of you and the sink was on your left, but in the far left corner (diagonal from the door) there was another room with a door and another toilet.

This is a diagram of the room.  Asterisks (*) are used for spacing, lines are walls, ds are doors, Ts are toilets, and S is the sink.

----------
|T**|*T*|
|***|***|
---d--***|
|S******|
--------d-

The first toilet was not covered or blocked in any way.  It was not in a stall, it was just sitting there in the open next to this inner room with another toilet.  It didn't look like had ever been any attempt to put up a stall.

You'd think that with two toilets it meant that the bathroom was actually not a private bathroom, but the only way that two people could use this bathroom at the same time and not see each other peeing would be if someone went into the inner room first, closed the door, and stayed there until the person in the outer room did his/her business, washed his/her hands, and left, at which point the second person could come out of the inner bathroom, wash his/her hands, and leave.

It was so nonsensical that I actually checked to see if I was dreaming (since I often dream of odd bathrooms if I have to pee while I'm sleeping).


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## fba827 (Oct 16, 2010)

Merkuri said:


> One of the oddest bathrooms I've seen was a "nested" bathroom.




If you replace the 'outter' toilet with a urinal, you have a fairly common men's room layout.  My guess is that the took that men's room layout and just replaced the urinal since it was supposed to be a unisex toilet. (or it used to just be a men's room and there is a ladies room 'around the corner', but they converted the ladies room to employees only and therefore the men's room needed to be unisex.

But the result, yes, is very nonsensical for common usage.




Merkuri said:


> (snip)since I often dream of odd bathrooms(snip)




You, my friend, have been blessed with an abundance of problems that no therapist will ever be able to fix.


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## jonesy (Oct 16, 2010)

A gas station in western Russia.

I walk into the bathroom. In front of me, fixed to the wall, is a mirror. On the left is a toilet. Above the toilet, almost blocking the lever for the toilet, is a sink. It's not attached to anything, because the plumbing for the sink is below the mirror. The water faucet for the sink is on the wall on the right. I know it's the faucet for the sink, because there is a shower faucet above the toilet and the sink. There is no sinkhole on the floor for the shower, just the toilet.

The gas station attendant just said that the owner was having problems with the contractor. He didn't know whether the bathroom had been finished before or after the troubles began, so it might not actually have been incompetence.



Merkuri said:


> It was so nonsensical that I actually checked to see if I was dreaming (since I often dream of odd bathrooms if I have to pee while I'm sleeping).


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## Merkuri (Oct 16, 2010)

fba827 said:


> You, my friend, have been blessed with an abundance of problems that no therapist will ever be able to fix.




I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who dreams of peeing if I'm sleeping and have to pee.


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## jonesy (Oct 16, 2010)

Merkuri said:


> I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who dreams of peeing if I'm sleeping and have to pee.



I get waterfalls and fountains and one time this old lady selling bottles.


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## fba827 (Oct 16, 2010)

Merkuri said:


> I find it hard to believe that I'm the only one who dreams of peeing if I'm sleeping and have to pee.




It isn't the dreaming of peeing  (wow, am I really typing that phrase?) it's the "dream of odd bathrooms" part... :


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## Theo R Cwithin (Oct 16, 2010)

In a little family restaurant somewhere in small-town America (maybe even here in TX?), there's a men's room with two toilets facing each other, no stalls or barriers.  It was great for a casual conversation with a good friend, I suppose.

In a Chinese restaurant in (Romania maybe? I don't recall), the toilet and sink were just off in a corner of the restaurant.  The toilet was walled off from the main dining room in a stall, so, yes, you could see the person's feet while feasting on your kung pao chicken.  The sink was walled off from the dining area with a stylish beaded curtain, however.


(And fwiw, I also dream about weird bathrooms when I need to pee while I'm asleep.  Most frequent one is of a cavernous dark space, like the great cistern beneath Istanbul, only scarier. )


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## fba827 (Oct 16, 2010)

I do a lot of traveling for family things.

I have actually gotten used to (though still dislike) the hole in the ground toilet style.   However, my absolute least favorite bathroom ever (not counting ones that i disliked simply from being unclean) was ....

hole-in-the ground toilet and about 1 inch away was where you had to stand for the shower.  if you stepped slightly to the side you'd have a foot in the toilet. if you turned around, you'd be staring down the toilet.  and while you stand there you'd also keep thinking about anyone/everyone who couldn't aim right and may have missed the toilet to begin with.  There was no way you could ever feel clean in that shower.  It's been 5 years since and I can not shake it from my mind. Worst design ever in my experience.


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## fba827 (Oct 16, 2010)

*double post - ignore*


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## Merkuri (Oct 16, 2010)

fba827 said:


> hole-in-the ground toilet and about 1 inch away was where you had to stand for the shower.  if you stepped slightly to the side you'd have a foot in the toilet. if you turned around, you'd be staring down the toilet.




I wonder if this was somebody's answer to those folks who like to pee in the shower. 

My mom used to tell this story about the time her and my dad were honeymooning in Europe ~35 years ago.  They were on a train and my mom had to pee.  She couldn't read the signs, not being able to speak anything but English, but she managed to find her way to the bathroom and was surprised to see that it was just a drain in the floor.  She felt a little awkward about it, but she figured that's probably how it was done in the country they were in, so she used the drain.

A little while later after she had returned to their seats someone else on the train had to go to the bathroom and went in a completely different direction.  To this day she does not know where she peed.

I only found out many many years later that she was drunk at the time.


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## fba827 (Oct 16, 2010)

lol (Merkuri).  Your train story reminds me (though not a "worst bathroom design" story) when I was on a high class train in an asian country that i won't name, you'd lift the toilet seat and see the train tracks moving below...   no plumbing, just straight down hole out the bottom of the train onto the tracks below.

yeah, it was an awesome 'high class' experience. makes me wonder what the lower-class trains were like


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## Merkuri (Oct 17, 2010)

fba827 said:


> no plumbing, just straight down hole out the bottom of the train onto the tracks below.




Mental note... do not walk on train tracks in Asia. 

And I'd say that qualifies as an odd bathroom.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 17, 2010)

Actually, I had the same experience on a train traveling from Nice, in France.  There were signs posted about not using the train's facilities while in the station...but our train was running late and one member of our travelling party was a touch ill...


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## Merkuri (Oct 17, 2010)

Revised mental note... do not walk on train tracks.  Period.


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## Dire Bare (Oct 18, 2010)

fba827 said:


> lol (Merkuri).  Your train story reminds me (though not a "worst bathroom design" story) when I was on a high class train in an asian country that i won't name, you'd lift the toilet seat and see the train tracks moving below...   no plumbing, just straight down hole out the bottom of the train onto the tracks below.
> 
> yeah, it was an awesome 'high class' experience. makes me wonder what the lower-class trains were like




That's how it used to be on trains EVERYWHERE!  It's only been relatively recently that US passenger trains changed to airplane style toilets for hygienic reasons.


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## Dire Bare (Oct 18, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> 5) And all across the world- even in so-called 1st world nations, even in big cities...please- get rid of the "abyssal hole in the ground" style bathroom!  I've seen them in Cannes & Nice (France), Moscow (Russia)...don't tell me those cities don't have the money to replace them.




This isn't an example of bad design, just cultural differences.  Not that I'm eager for my first poop-in-a-porcelain-pit experience, mind you.  If the "abyssal hole" toilets are designed and installed properly, they are more hygienic than western style toilets . . . . but of course, westerners require training and practice to actually use them!

You can find images on the net of signs placed above western style toilets warning those used to the "hole" not to squat on top of the toilet seat . . . they are hilarious!

http://www.funnypictures.net.au/images/weird-toilet-signs-no-standing1.JPG


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 18, 2010)

Well, they _do_ minimize aerosolization of waste...but the poop-pits of my experience seem to be frequented by patrons with poor aim.

And believe me, a mix of urine & feces is every bit as slick as ice.


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## Relique du Madde (Oct 18, 2010)

Dire Bare said:


> That's how it used to be on trains EVERYWHERE!  It's only been relatively recently that US passenger trains changed to airplane style toilets for hygienic reasons.




So trains magically bombard suburban cities with "blue chunky ice" from miles above the earth?   AWESOME!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 18, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> So trains magically bombard suburban cities with "blue chunky ice" from miles above the earth?   AWESOME!




Thomas the Tank Engine is an evil SOB.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Oct 29, 2010)

Another medical building, another oddball bathroom:


The single room bathroom had a deadbolt that I, fully capable of limb, had difficulty aligning to close
It had no urinal, so a simple pee uses an ocean of water to flush
The cold water had a nice, loud hum that you could change the pitch of- it sounded like the angry whine of a Formula One car being put through it's paces.


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## Graybeard (Oct 30, 2010)

Last year when my wife and I were looking at condos in Florida, we saw some that had the closet for the master bedroom in the master bathroom. If someone was using the facilities, no one could get something out of the closet. 

I have seen trough style urinals at Fenway park in Boston in the past. I'm not sure if they still use them or not. They also had them at the airport in Shannon Ireland several years ago.


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## fba827 (Nov 1, 2010)

Dire Bare said:


> You can find images on the net of signs placed above western style toilets warning those used to the "hole" not to squat on top of the toilet seat . . . they are hilarious!
> 
> http://www.funnypictures.net.au/images/weird-toilet-signs-no-standing1.JPG




When I was little, my dad had over a house guest who only know the hole-in-ground-style and didn't know how to use a western style toilet. So he tried squatting ontop of the guestroom's toilet and, well, my father had to hire someone to clean the bathroom afterwards because none of us wanted to go in there after what the guest did ...

ah, memories...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Nov 3, 2010)

Similar story in our houshold...except the guy used the trashcan.

I thought it was a plumbing problem, and didn't figure it out for a couple of days.


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## cignus_pfaccari (Nov 5, 2010)

At one of my favorite restaurants, their new bathroom style has the sink next to the door.  To the left is the urinal.

Past the urinal, that's where the towels are.

Awk-ward...

Brad


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## Dannyalcatraz (Nov 15, 2010)

New one: I was passing through a small town and stopped in a buyer joint.  It was tiny, with only one unisex bathroom containing a toilet, sink, towels and a mirror.  Simple, right?

Well, for whatever reason, the mirror was a floor to ceiling, whole wall affair, maybe 8'x8...on the wall with the toilet.  I guess they figured putting it on the opposite wall with the sink and towel dispenser would have involved too much cutting/drilling of the mirror.  BUT WHO NEEDS A MIRROR THAT BIG IN A BURGER JOINT BATHROOM?

I hear you, "What's the big deal?"

Well, if you're seated, it's not a problem at all.  However, unless he's been in a similar bathroom, I can virtually guarantee you that no man has ever seen himself (or any other man) from that angle, junk in his hands, taking a leak.

It's..._disconcerting_...to say the least.  Almost a complete show (flow?) stopper.


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## Relique du Madde (Nov 15, 2010)

Wait..  you're facing yourself as you unload?!?!?


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## Joker (Nov 15, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> New one: I was passing through a small town and stopped in a buyer joint.  It was tiny, with only one unisex bathroom containing a toilet, sink, towels and a mirror.  Simple, right?
> 
> Well, for whatever reason, the mirror was a floor to ceiling, whole wall affair, maybe 8'x8...on the wall with the toilet.  I guess they figured putting it on the opposite wall with the sink and towel dispenser would have involved too much cutting/drilling of the mirror.  BUT WHO NEEDS A KIRROR THAT BIG IN A BURGER JOINT BATHROOM?
> 
> ...




It could be a one way mirror.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Nov 15, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> Wait..  you're facing yourself as you unload?!?!?



Yes.



Joker said:


> It could be a one way mirror.



I doubt it- it's a small building, and the mirror is on an exterior wall.


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## ssampier (Nov 27, 2010)

I have seen plenty of dumb bathrooms. The one I remember was hotel room bathroom with the mirror on the wall behind the toilet. I remarked to a friend, "It must have been designed by a woman."

As a similar incident, at work the other day, I noticed the pristine tile on the wall above the urinal reflects things very well. It's great they clean the tile, but I didn't need to see myself that way, thanks.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 4, 2011)

Just got back from a week+ in Austin, TX.  I encountered ANOTHER bathroom with a full-length mirror behind the john.  GAH!

I also encountered a new flaw- a urinal placed so close to the side wall you couldn't stand square with it.  You had to aim at a 45deg angle!  WTF?  Was this planned by some man-hating contractor?


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## Crazy Jerome (Feb 5, 2011)

There's a reason why I designed my current house, and only took it to the architect for the final plans/structural review (and all he did was tweak a few window placements and find a way to not need a beam, so it was all good).

But I don't think it is the architects that are causing all this. You've got people trying so hard to handle disabilities that they completely forget common sense (and probably manage to frustrate those with disabilities anyway). You've got people with no sense of how plumbing actually works. But I think the hidden villains in the USA are the "home designers". You know, those folks that are wannabee architects but are are more, er, "artistically" inclined than otherwise. The people that used to be satisfied to be interior decorators, where all they could really do was waste money.

My wife and I toured a subdivision once where most of the houses had this closet laundry room opposite the master bath--the idea being that you've got these more or less "starter homes" with everything is convenient. You wash the linens, you dry the linens, and then you stack them on the nice little shelf in the master bath.

Except the designer was so in love with privacy that she put the linen closet in the same cubby with the toliet, which then had its own door. And the toliet cubby was near the bath entrace, which was directly opposite the laundry room closet, in a 25 inch-wide hall. (I always carried a tape measure when touring houses, for just such reasons.). Upshot was that to get towels from the dryer to the linen closet, you had to open and then close four consecutive doors. There wasn't room for the doors to be open without closing the next.

You'll note that this meant if anyone happened to be doing laundry, you had to open and close three doors to pee ... And when you closed that door to the toliet, there was barely room to sit, worse than the worst public stall I've ever seen. But if you didn't close it, you blocked all access to the bathroom for the spouse. It was like doing one of those 4x4 grid image plastic puzzles. 

I asked the real estate agent why they had replicated this after the first house, since this occurred in the "show house" as well, and why the person responsible had not been fired. She just blinked at me. I guess she had gone numb.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 5, 2011)

Oh, I'm sure there are contractors at fault for some of these...as well as future owners who keep putting in change orders or who answer contractors' questions without looking at the plans first.

We did that in our house once, but fortunately, it just involved placement of a particular kind of jack and choice of tiles in a bathroom.  The results were less than good, but livable, though the tile choice has since been changed in a remodel.

Our house was built from the ground up from a design that was standard to the nationally known homebuilder working the neighborhood.  Said standard design included a 6' x 6' picture window w/standard glass over the hot-tub in the master bathroom...which faces the street.  Changing that to glass brick was an upgrade.

J'accuse...ARCHITECT!


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## Scott DeWar (Feb 5, 2011)

> .as well as future owners who keep putting in change orders or who answer contractors' questions without looking at the plans first.




As an electrician , I usually dont have too much of a problem with change orders, but when a cutomer plans on simple 2 bulb fiztures that take an hour to do the whole house to 5 different cieling fans that all have a different way to install and taking from 45 minutyes to 2 1/2 hour to install, that gets to be a bit of a strain. My boss had to put in a seprate bill for the light change to cieling fans because it went way over the bid and the light fixtures were bidded specific as well.

This kind of change happens way more often then you may want to hear about.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 5, 2011)

In our case, we were building the house, and we were asked about placement of a jack.  We said "put it there" without looking at the plans.  The contractor asked "Are you sure?" and we said "Yes."

...which put it in a corner fairly close to an attic door.  This meant tight access, and that my home office arrangement had to be shifted 90deg.

With the bathroom tile, we made an analogous mistake, not realizing that the room in question directly opened into a space with an entirely different tile that was adjacent to a room with wood flooring AND next to a room that was carpeted.  The effect was...a little jarring.

Now, post renovation, the bathroom, space and formerly carpeted room all share the same tile.  MUCH nicer visual flow.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 11, 2011)

OK, this wasn't so much design idiocy as a simple, unintended consequence.  I've griped about mirrors behind toilets, but I found one that wasn't supposed to be there.

The bathroom looked nice & normal, and its mirror was over the sink.  It also had a toilet-seat cover dispenser over the toilet.

A _chrome_ toilet-seat cover dispenser...very clean and highly polished.

The effect was just like a funhouse mirror- I HAD to laugh!


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