# Lycein Arcana Questions...



## Primitive Screwhead (Dec 24, 2004)

RW.. Thanks for the great Christmas present! (even if I didn't get the discount  :\ )

 I have read through it twice or so, and had a quick question:

THe Gatekeepers and Scribe of Worlds Feat. You have a table of number of words to Craft DC/XP cost, but I cannot discern any way of setting the precision of the portal. It looks like the more words you use, the better the portal will be at getting you to exactly where you want to go.

 I was thinking, after just reading the new Thieves World novels, that a great scribe could use less words to describe the same location. 

I guess my question on this is: How did you plan on adjudicating precision for the portals?


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## Verequus (Dec 24, 2004)

I've found a PI infringement, RW: You are mentioned the Displacer Beast, which isn't in the SRD. Probably you should patch this along with errata, I have yet to find.


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## dekrass (Dec 26, 2004)

I believe there are a couple of copy/paste errors in the converted classes. The ones I've noticed are on page 28 in the ranger. It says that the EOM Ranger's class skills are the same as core rules paladin. It also says they have d10 HD I assume that is an error.


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## RangerWickett (Dec 26, 2004)

Yep.  I'll change the original text version I have, but so far the problems are minor enough that they're not worth patching.  Here's hoping we might get a print deal, though.  *grin*


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## RangerWickett (Dec 26, 2004)

Primitive Screwhead said:
			
		

> THe Gatekeepers and Scribe of Worlds Feat. You have a table of number of words to Craft DC/XP cost, but I cannot discern any way of setting the precision of the portal. It looks like the more words you use, the better the portal will be at getting you to exactly where you want to go.
> 
> I was thinking, after just reading the new Thieves World novels, that a great scribe could use less words to describe the same location.
> 
> I guess my question on this is: How did you plan on adjudicating precision for the portals?




That ability was inspired by Myst, actually.  I'm not quite sure what you are asking.  With Scribe of Worlds, anything less than the highest difficulty probably won't get you to a specific spot that you know of.  

You might create a portal that says, "Second-story room with a computer full of fantasy fiction, next to a pile of blankets on the floor that make up the bed of the room's occupant.  A sliding door leads into a closet, while a second door opens into a hallway that connects to the rest of the apartment.  In this room, a ceiling fan with four light bulbs illuminates poorly-organized piles of books and writing implements.  Two windows look out upon a parking lot, surrounded by light trees and a sprawling old-folks community.  Beyond the community is a growing suburb of a massive metropolis marked by three paved freeways - one traveling east-west, one north-south, and one encircling the metropolis and its suburbs in a ring.  But here in this apartment room, furnishings are spare and frugal, belying the giant city outside."

That's a fairly good description of my apartment, in 134 words.  But there are likely many such places in the infinte multiverse, so even if I wrote that and wanted to have a portal to my apartment, I'd probably end up going to some place that is similar.  Only if I spent thousands of words (and lots of XP) to create the portal would I be certain it would go to _my_ apartment.  Until that point, Scribe of Worlds is best used for when you want to go someplace interesting, rather than some place specific.


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## Primitive Screwhead (Dec 26, 2004)

*Scribe of Worlds...*

So the intent was the highest DC and XP cost for the most precision, which is what I had assumed.

 In the new Thieves' World anthology, there is a tale of a Crimson Robe adept who studies words and languages. Seeking out the words of power that are the building blocks of the world. With these words, one can create effects much like spells, or more correctly create the effects that spells attempt to emulate. 

 What I was thinking was a way to scale precision to how well the creator of the portal knows words. I think there could be a scale of precision vs number of words vs quality of words. A common phrase is that a picture is worth a thousand words. A talented poet can paint a picture in the readers mind with many less than that.
Basically, break the current chart down into two:

```
Craft DC, XP Cost, and Precision
     5              20          Must be at the location to scribe. 
    10            100          Must be currently Scrying the location.
    15            200          5% chance of correctly identifying the intended location
    20            300          10% chance of..
    25            400          15% chance of..
    30            500          25% chance of..
    35            600          50% chance of..
    40            700          75% chance of..
    45            800          99% chance of..

  Words Used, Modifier to Skill Check
   1             -15
   5             -10
  30              -5
  200            0
  500           +5
  1000         +10
  > 1000      +15
 The number of words can be limited to 200 when information about the real location is unavailable.
```
If the chance roll is failed, the portal will still work, but will transport users to a very similiar appearing (at first) location. The GM can scale how dissimilar it gets by how much the roll was missed by.

In this manner, it takes a DC 20 skill check and 20 XP to write on a scroll "Here" and have it be a portal to the current location. This could be accomplished by a character who has just qualified for the feat. As a player, the best use for this feat would be transportation to known places. As a GM, the best use for this feat is convienant 'one-shot' adventures far off the path of the current campaign.

To take this into game context, in my new Eberron game, assume my mage5 wants to go this route. In order to adventure into the interior of Xendric he reads some books and studies up on the land. Then he scribes a Tome. Wanting to be go to the right place, he attempts to go the whole enchiliada.. DC of 45, XP cost of 800, and over 1000 words. He needs to roll at least a 18 (8 ranks + 2 INT + 2 Skill Focus + 15 word bonus). At that point, if he succeeds.. he deserves it!
 Later, the group decides to adventure to Argonnessen and he tries again. This time there is no information he can gather, so he is limited to 200 words. The best he can do would be DC 30, and even then the portal may lead to a created world of imagination...or back to Xendric since primitive jungles look soo much alike   

Of course, also in play you will probably never have a player come up with a thousand word description of his/her desired world of adventure.. if you do.. I want that player in my game! Instead you will get a "I make a portal to Terry Prachetts' Disk World... I rolled a Craft of 32 and spent my XP.. can we go now?"   This would mean having a monetary cost increase as part of using more words, call it the cost of good paper.

Actually, I have no idea where I am going with this. It just seemed very odd to me that there where no 'rules' as to precision in the use of the portals. As a player I would worry about taking a feat that may work, and then only if the GM feels inclined to let it work. If this particular tradition gets used in my game at all, it will be as a plot device only. But that does not make me any less willing to 'tinker' with the mechanics!


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## Verequus (Dec 26, 2004)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Yep. I'll change the original text version I have, but so far the problems are minor enough that they're not worth patching. Here's hoping we might get a print deal, though. *grin*



 Nice to hear about the potential print deal! But if you have to patch the book again, please change it to show one page only at a time. I don't like it to have it change back everytime, I open the book up. BTW, if I use the bookmarks, my viewing settings are always changed, too. Can this be remedied, too?


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## dekrass (Dec 26, 2004)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Nice to hear about the potential print deal! But if you have to patch the book again, please change it to show one page only at a time. I don't like it to have it change back everytime, I open the book up. BTW, if I use the bookmarks, my viewing settings are always changed, too. Can this be remedied, too?




I'll second those requests, and would love to see this stuff in print products.


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## Archus (Dec 27, 2004)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> Yep.  I'll change the original text version I have, but so far the problems are minor enough that they're not worth patching.  Here's hoping we might get a print deal, though.  *grin*



A print version of the combined EoMR and LA with eratta would be great.  I'd get at least two copies.


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## Archus (Dec 27, 2004)

*Anima: Enduring Healing Powers*

Can you take healing powers as enduring anima powers?  I would find that to be pretty gross.


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## RangerWickett (Dec 27, 2004)

You can't, actually.  I probably should have spelled that out, but because your anima powers have a permanent duration, and the cost of enduring healing and evoking are based on duration (and there's no 'permanent' entry), you can't.  However, for 4 AP you _can_ have the ability to heal 2d6 points of damage an unlimited number of times, which might be a little overpowered.  People can do the same thing for 2000 XP if you have the Craft Permanent Spell and Craft Charged Item feat.

That was something I missed.  How would you recommend remedying it?  Maybe requiring you be at least a 6th level anima before you can have an infinite-use activated ability?


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## Archus (Dec 27, 2004)

RangerWickett said:
			
		

> You can't, actually.  I probably should have spelled that out, but because your anima powers have a permanent duration, and the cost of enduring healing and evoking are based on duration (and there's no 'permanent' entry), you can't.  However, for 4 AP you _can_ have the ability to heal 2d6 points of damage an unlimited number of times, which might be a little overpowered.  People can do the same thing for 2000 XP if you have the Craft Permanent Spell and Craft Charged Item feat.




Good I was very afraid.  So anything that can have a normal Gen permanent duration can be taken as an Enduring Anima?  Is it just Evoke and Heal that can't be done?



			
				RangerWickett said:
			
		

> That was something I missed.  How would you recommend remedying it?  Maybe requiring you be at least a 6th level anima before you can have an infinite-use activated ability?




That would probably be good - of course you can't take it until 4th level anyway, but this would keep people from taking one level of Anima at 4th level just for a healing battery.  5th or 6th level Anima special ability sounds fair - you are giving up an entire level for the power and have to have put some effort into being an anima.


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## Verequus (Dec 29, 2004)

I've only found one other error: On page 43, where you listed the feats in a table, there is "Soul Echo" written as "Soul E\cho".


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## John Q. Mayhem (Jan 8, 2005)

What is the reason for not being able to have Transform magic as anima powers? Is it just flavour, or is there a mechanical reason?


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## Verequus (Jan 8, 2005)

Probably, because you could transform yourself into a dragon all day otherwise.

 But another question to the Biomancer feat: If I would use a spell for increasing the strength on someone and the receiver of the spell pays off the debt, can I then cast the same spell and gain the same increase for his strength? Or don't stack the spells?


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## Verequus (Jan 9, 2005)

I've had an intruiging idea for a campaign with an attached setting, where permanent tranformations are one of key elements of the plot, but I don't know, how to achieve it with making the spell undispellable. The Biomancer feat demands XP, which won't be spent in this case voluntarily. Can someone be compelled to agree spending XP magically? Mundane should be no problem. Furthermore, Ryan, you mentioned in one of your teasers, that a permanent teleport block has been created through killing thousands of slaves - how would you formulate such a process? How many percent of the XP stored in a person can then be contributed?

 Also you left the curses out - will you include the rules somewhere? The ritual spell rules don't list a focus, where the magical energy is stored - did you delete this detail?


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## John Q. Mayhem (Jan 9, 2005)

I'd _love_ to see a system akin to the LA ritual magic for creating magic items-with skill checks instead of CL checks, taking a long time and perhaps requiring some help, but in the end you create an item you couldn't otherwise, like One-Eye's spear in the _Black Company_ novels.


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## Verequus (Jan 10, 2005)

Several classes in Lyceian Arcana are unable to learn every spell list, at least without multiclassing. Can they use items, which have effects comprised of at least one of the forbiddden spell lists?

 Also, Ryan, because you had a chance to read Upper_Krust's CR-system - how are the Summon CRs affected, if I use the new CR-system?


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## donm61873 (Nov 17, 2005)

Since I had an EoM-LA question, I figured I'd post in this old thread, to keep them together.

In the EOM Druid, there's this nugget about Thousand Faces being the same as the core rules ability.

Except the core rules ability is "At 13th level, a druid gains the ability to change her appearance at will, as if using the alter self spell, but only while in her normal form".

Which I think really should be an always available 0 MP Transform, Cosmetic Changes - Creature; which is nothing compared to the EOM Druid's special Transform pool.

So, I think the Thousand Faces ability should probably just be dropped into the redone EOM Druid wildshape, yes?


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## Verequus (Nov 18, 2005)

But wouldn't you limit this ability to only one minute per use and each use would eat 1 MP from the Wildshape pool? That is far weaker than the core ability.


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## donm61873 (Nov 18, 2005)

Hmm... So basically Thousand Faces becomes a free, at will, cosmetic 1 MP Transform Creature power?

That works for me, and it's way simpler to understand


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## Verequus (Nov 19, 2005)

I would change your solution: The free, at will, cosmetic 1 MP Transform Creature power has no duration limit and the Creature category is the same as the characters type.


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## Nyeshet (Nov 23, 2005)

The 'cure 2d6 hp at will' ability sounds like a weaker and uncertain variant of Fast healing. They gain fast healing, but each round they have to use a standard action to make use of it - losing their other actions that round. So unless they are able to 'take a breather' during combat for several rounds it is not all that broken, especially since its FH power is random (albeit, more often than not akin to FH 7). It is a very very strong ability, granted, but it is not necessarily a broken one. Fast Healing 2 or 3 would be more powerful, actually, as it would allow normal actions each round. 

Its cost needs to be increased, granted, or its healing per use needs to be trimmed, but otherwise curing oneself as an at will ability is not that bad. Healing oneself 1 or 2 hp at will as a standard action is mostly useful in recovering between encounters than during them (except when stabilizing, of course). Perhaps curing oneself 1d2 hp at will as a standard action would be worth 4 AP. Its been a while since I looked at the system, I admit, so I might easily be off on this.


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## Verequus (Nov 23, 2005)

I'm sorry, but do you speak of the Anima class? Otherwise I don't know, which class has this particular cure power.


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## genshou (Dec 4, 2005)

Wow, this was a bad thread for me to miss!  Lots of replies to everyone scattered throughout this post.


			
				Primitive Screwhead said:
			
		

> THe Gatekeepers and Scribe of Worlds Feat. You have a table of number of words to Craft DC/XP cost, but I cannot discern any way of setting the precision of the portal. It looks like the more words you use, the better the portal will be at getting you to exactly where you want to go.



I agree with what RW posted above.  I would suggest you play the Myst series of games (if you're good at puzzle solving, anyway).  If you do a lot of reading about ages (both in an out of game), you'll find that Atrus and his father Gehn have opposed theories about whether writing an age creates an age to your specifications, or simply links you to one which does.  Good material for if you use Scribe of Worlds in your game.


			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Nice to hear about the potential print deal! But if you have to patch the book again, please change it to show one page only at a time. I don't like it to have it change back everytime, I open the book up. BTW, if I use the bookmarks, my viewing settings are always changed, too. Can this be remedied, too?



I have this problem when first opening the PDF in that I am viewing two pages at a time at 90-something percent zoom, side by side, but all it takes is two clicks to fix that.  Clicking the bookmarks doesn't reset the views for me.  Are you using the most up-to-date version of Adobe Acrobat or Adobe Reader to view it?


			
				Archus said:
			
		

> Good I was very afraid. So anything that can have a normal Gen permanent duration can be taken as an Enduring Anima? Is it just Evoke and Heal that can't be done?



Anything that can be made into a wondrous item can be an enduring Anima power.  Sadly, that means no Evoke or Heal.


			
				John Q. Mayhem said:
			
		

> What is the reason for not being able to have Transform magic as anima powers? Is it just flavour, or is there a mechanical reason?



An Anima can take Transform spells as Anima powers, just not as enduring powers.  Getting an infinite use-per-day of some transformations would be cool, though.  I don't think it'd be worth the AP cost, since 5/day with a better duration would be more along the lines of how many times a day you would actually need to use it.


			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> But another question to the Biomancer feat: If I would use a spell for increasing the strength on someone and the receiver of the spell pays off the debt, can I then cast the same spell and gain the same increase for his strength? Or don't stack the spells?



*RM*, I assume you are referring to an Infuse spell to increase an ability score.  That would be an enhancement bonus, which doesn't stack with others of its kind.  So, you couldn't benefit from multiple castings, even though it's no longer part of the 12-item limit.


			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Also you left the curses out - will you include the rules somewhere? The ritual spell rules don't list a focus, where the magical energy is stored - did you delete this detail?



I'd like an answer on this one, too.  I've been wondering how to adjucate rituals beyond the specific one I semi-revealed in my Story Hour.


			
				John Q. Mayhem said:
			
		

> I'd love to see a system akin to the LA ritual magic for creating magic items-with skill checks instead of CL checks, taking a long time and perhaps requiring some help, but in the end you create an item you couldn't otherwise, like One-Eye's spear in the Black Company novels.



Could you elaborate on this a little more?


			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Several classes in Lyceian Arcana are unable to learn every spell list, at least without multiclassing. Can they use items, which have effects comprised of at least one of the forbiddden spell lists?



Chapter 4: Magic Items gives an answer on this:
"Anyone, even someone with no caster level or MP, can try to use these spell completion items; to successfully cast the spell in the item, you must make a caster level check (DC 10 + the spell’s MP cost). If you know all the spell lists the item uses, you get a +10 bonus to this check."


			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Also, Ryan, because you had a chance to read Upper_Krust's CR-system - how are the Summon CRs affected, if I use the new CR-system?



I've been using the 1 MP=1 CR idea you proposed long ago in another thread, and it's worked fine in my games so far.


			
				RuleMaster said:
			
		

> I'm sorry, but do you speak of the Anima class? Otherwise I don't know, which class has this particular cure power.



You are correct, *RM*.  The question is about whether or not allowing a 4th-level character with 1 level in Anima to heal 2d6 damage at will as a spell-like ability is broken.  An idea I had was to make casting an at-will spell-like ability take the full two rounds (at least for an Anima, if not for everyone).  That would curb excessive use of at-will spell-like abilities.

Hope that's all helpful!
~tpc, who desires to become *RangerWickett*'s toady


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## Verequus (Dec 4, 2005)

Could you please add, from whom the quotes were? I know, that some were mine, some are from others, but the rest - I'm too lazy to search this thread for the orginal posts. Not everyone has a photographic memory!


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## genshou (Dec 4, 2005)

RuleMaster said:
			
		

> Could you please add, from whom the quotes were? I know, that some were mine, some are from others, but the rest - I'm too lazy to search this thread for the orginal posts. Not everyone has a photographic memory!



LOL, no problem...


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