# [OT] Reactions to NEW Episode II Trailer



## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

My Reaction:  *yawn*

My Girlfriend's Reaction*:  "That didn't excite me."

If that's the best trailer that they could put together....

*shakes head*

Can you tell I was underwhelmed? 



*She's the one who wants me to take her to see it despite my lack of enthusiasm.  After tonight, I may get my way....


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## rounser (Mar 11, 2002)

What did it show?


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## Wolf72 (Mar 11, 2002)

the republic going to full scale war ... clones ... jedi are guardians  not soldiers ...

I'm still gonna see it , opening day too

dunno, I'm seeing lots of "the fall of the roman republic" type things (or I'm just a geek who's looking to hard)


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## TBoarder (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: [OT] Reactions to Episode II Trailer*



			
				Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *My Reaction:  *yawn*
> *




Wha???  That trailer was amazing!  Attack of the Clones looks like it's gonna be the most action-packed Star Wars movie yet... 

Seeing what looks like the birth of the Imperial Army is absolutely awe-inspiring.  Anakin fighting with two lightsabers is just really cool.  Count Dooku looks like he has a really cool motivation... not at all what I expected for the bad guy in the movie.

I feel really excited about this movie... as excited, or moreso than I did at this point in time before Phantom Menace came out.


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## Corporate Dog (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: [OT] Reactions to Episode II Trailer*



			
				Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *My Reaction:  *yawn**




My reaction to your apparent need to piss all over something that some of us ARE looking forward to: *yawn*.

Good god is Episode II bashing getting OLD.

Regards,
Corporate Dog


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## beta-ray (Mar 11, 2002)

wolfspider no offense, but why even bother to post this? It's obvious you like disliking the "new" Star Wars from your other posts... Just wondering


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## Buttercup (Mar 11, 2002)

I thought it looked like it might be anywhere on a scale from good to great.  At least there wasn't a Jar-Jar character.

We'll be going to see it, although probably not for a week or two after the release.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> My reaction to your apparent need to piss all over something that some of us ARE looking forward to: *yawn*.




I'm not pissing over anything.  I'm merely giving my opinion about the trailer.  For some reason, when my friend called me to remind me it was coming on, I jumped up and excitedly turned the TV to Fox.  I called my girlfriend in to watch it.

I wanted to like it.  But I didn't.  

If you don't agree with me, fine.  Discuss your reasons for liking it here in this thread.  I'll post some of the reasons I didn't like it as well.  We'll have a _discussion_.

In any case, I may still go see the movie (my girlfriend still wants me to), and I may actually enjoy it.  I didn't, however, enjoy the trailer or think it was remotely interesting.  I seemed rather...trite.



> wolfspider no offense, but why even bother to post this? It's obvious you like disliking the "new" Star Wars from your other posts... Just wondering




You know as well as I do that SOMEONE was going to create a thread about this sooner or later.  After I saw the trailer I sat back at my comptuer, and what did I see in front of me?  The ENWorld message boards.  After scanning the threads to make sure that nobody had created one already, I started this one.

I'm sorry if the presence of this thread distresses anyone.  Feel free to ignore it.


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## Crothian (Mar 11, 2002)

It was a trailer filled with flashy scenery, flashing battles, flashy chases, and little substance.  Welcome to the traditional hollywood trailer.  I'm going to see it opening day, but as a Trailer it was nothing special.


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## rounser (Mar 11, 2002)

FotR left too much out from the book!
Phantom Menace had Jar Jar, midi-chlorians and Jake Lloyd!
FotR is highly overrated!
Episode II's trailer isn't exciting!
FotR changed too much from the books!
Episode II looks like some lame love story!
George Lucas ran over my dog!
Peter Jackson insulted my mother!
etc. etc. etc.
repeat ad infinitum

Living up to the expectations of a cult fan base must be harder than it looks...


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## beta-ray (Mar 11, 2002)

Sorry if it sounds like I came down on your wolfspider, but after that other long thread about EpII, and the way you seem to think so poorly of it, I would have thought you wouldn't be excited and maybe would REACT to a trailer posting here, but not start one.


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## Corporate Dog (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> * I'm not pissing over anything. I'm merely giving my opinion about the trailer. *




Which, as beta-ray pointed out, has been dually noted in previous threads.

But thanks for sharing.

Regards,
Corporate Dog


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

I have asked a moderator to close this thread.  It wasn't my intention to start a flame war.  I'm sorry that my initial negative reaction caused so many hard feelings.

If someone else wants to start a similar thread, they can feel free...and heaven forbid they have a negative opinion of it!


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> Which, as beta-ray pointed out, has been dually noted in previous threads.




One more thing before I go.  I wasn't aware that I had already shared my opinion of the trailer that premiered a half hour ago.


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## Corporate Dog (Mar 11, 2002)

Feel free to have a negative opinion, but I don't think it's too much to ask you to include something substantive to back up that opinion, is it?

You're opening post in this thread really wasn't any different from the scores of posts that I've seen online which make the claim, "Episode II is gonna suck 'cuz Luc-ass is a $ell-out, d00d!"

What exactly did you find boring or unexciting about the trailer?

Regards,
Corporate Dog

EDIT: PS, I've already seen a few trailers for Episode II, including one attached to Fellowship of the Ring when it premiered. In addition to backing up your 'yawn', you might want to be more specific.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> EDIT: PS, I've already seen a few trailers for Episode II, including one attached to Fellowship of the Ring when it premiered. In addition to backing up your 'yawn', you might want to be more specific.




I'm reacting to the trailer that premiered about an hour ago on Fox.  They had been showing ads for it all over television for the past week.



> Feel free to have a negative opinion, but I don't think it's too much to ask you to include something substantive to back up that opinion, is it?




Not at all!  I was just percolating a bit, that's all.

The special effects, while obviously good in a technical sense, were overwhelming and confusing, which is not good in an artistic sense.  Everything seemed CGI.  (And everything probably was.  It was especially evident that Yoda was CGI--and that's not a good thing.)  It was so crowded and busy on the screen throughout the trailer that I couldn't really tell what was going on.

The dialogue, like the dialogue in Episode I, was stilted and badly delivered.  (I presume this has something to do with the fact that the actors are frequently performing in front of blue screens.  I know this was a problem with Ep. I.)  Yoda's pronouncement that the clone war had sounded ridiculous, and NOT because of his inverted grammar.  It was obviously meant to impress, but it didn't impress me.

The trailer didn't thrill me or give me shivers.  It didn't engender any kind of emotion in me at all, actually.  No, it didn't BORE me, but I would have thought that it would have at least made me "nipply" like good trailers tend to do. 

That's all for now.  More later...maybe.

I have to dogde some blaster fire now....


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## Forlorn (Mar 11, 2002)

Well, I just want to throw in my 2 cents on this one.  After Episode 1 I started to get disillusioned.  The trailers that had been released up until today didnt make me feel much better about the chances for episode 2.  But I just got done watching the latest trailer.  First off, it is beautiful, though I think its almost to _clean_ looking.  And thinking about it in concert with what was shown in forbidden love, I think the underlying story behind episode 2 will be head and shoulders above episode 1, and may even beat out one of the original trilogy.

BUT, having said that there is still one thing I fear out of episode 2.  Pitifully bad acting from actors who have proven they can do better.  Now people always like to say that star wars isnt about good acting, true, but at least the OT, while not having fabulous acting wasnt down right bad.  From what I have seen of episode 2 the acting just isnt up to snuff.

So to summarize, good plot, good visuals, bad acting from people who can do better.


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## drowdude (Mar 11, 2002)

Ya know.... I hadnt actually seen any of the trailers yet....

and I have to say that I really thought that rocked. My level of anticipation definitely went up a notch.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> Ya know.... I hadnt actually seen any of the trailers yet....




This may have actually helped you enjoy this one more.  The other trailers, while less cluttered with special effects, focused on the acting, which (as I've mentioned before) seems substandard.

If this is the first one you've seen, I understand why you're stoked.


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## noretoc (Mar 11, 2002)

Well, first I havn't seen the trailer.  I was playing D&D, LOL.  Anyone know if it is available online?

Second, want to apologize to wolfspider for the bashing he just took.  Come on people.  It dosen't matter what he said about before.  I understand that the basing id EP II is getting sickning, bu this thread was perfectly legit, and you should feel ashamed for jumping on wolf for starting a thread to see how people feel about the TRAILER.  I for one am pretty dissapointed that we have members who turn tail and bash somone because he bashed a movie.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

Thanks, noretoc! 

But it's ok.  I don't feel put upon.  I really should have been more specific at the start.  I hope I've made up a bit for my oversight.

I'm going to bed now.  G'night.


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## Simon Magalis (Mar 11, 2002)

I have said it before, but... WOW. I mean... WOW. I just wish I was a sociology major and could write a thesis about some of you people. BTW, while we are all bitching about something off topic: I am pretty tired of clicking on a topic and seeing a lengthy discussion about how dumb the topic is. If you don't like a topic, go away, watch tv, call your mom, but please dont feel the need to ruin the thread with tangential info. And before someone points out that I am doing the same thing, I would humbly offer that this thread is already gone. Nice try Wolf...I'm going to bed too.
... ... ... WOW. LOL (walks off shaking his head and chuckling)


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## el-remmen (Mar 11, 2002)

Firstly, as long as everyone sticks to discussing the trailer and not giving each others opinions on the opinions of others this thread does not need to be closed.  Just play nice.

Secondly, I did not like the trailer as much as the others - but I am still excited. . .

I like the idea of the chancellor (aka the eventual emperor) creating a war situation in order to get himself special emergency powers and undermining the freedom of the republic.

The whole idea of freedom vs. security is one that resonates with our current political climate*, so it makes it that much more exciting.





* This is not an invitation to _discuss_ that political climate - just an observation.


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## mmu1 (Mar 11, 2002)

I think you're absolutely right about the trailer, Wolfspider. After getting annoyed with myself for actually thinking about watching a commercial that had its own advertising campaign, I broke down, and sat up close to get a good look, feeling hopeful despite all the bad stuff me and my friends have been saying about it... And nada.  

Yoda looks fake, Anakin does a silly Matrix-like jump out of an air-car sans a parachute, Amidala runs around shooting at things while looking a lot like Lea, soldiers stand around looking a lot like stormtroopers, there's a bounty hunter just like Boba Fett and a ship just like Boba Fett's, Obi-Wan grumbles about having to put up with Anakin, sounding like Danny Glover in "Lethal Weapon" (do they argue about who gets to drive, I wonder?), light sabers are being used for their gee-whiz factor (yes, ok, we get it, one lighstaber is cool, so two at a time must be so much cooler, right? Never mind that it's supposed to be a weapon of great personal significance to a Jedi.), and the combat droids are still all over the place as if this was a cartoon... To me at least, a lot of it felt completely irrelevant when it wasn't ripping off the previous movies for a cheap sentimental reaction.


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## Jamdin (Mar 11, 2002)

I didn't care much for the new Episode II trailor but the Spiderman trailor rocked. I probably won't see Episode II at the theater on opening night but maybe on Sunday's matinee. I will however go see Spiderman


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## rounser (Mar 11, 2002)

> I am pretty tired of clicking on a topic and seeing a lengthy discussion about how dumb the topic is. If you don't like a topic, go away, watch tv, call your mom, but please dont feel the need to ruin the thread with tangential info.




Your idea, if implemented, would take the heat out of a lot threads alright.  The downside is that a lot less discussion would be generated at all.  

Posting that you disagree with the premise of the original poster doesn't "ruin" a thread, but getting adversary and offensive does.  The catch 22 is that what is offensive is often in the eye of the beholder - even if the person opposing the viewpoint is relatively civil, mere disagreement is sometimes an implied slight, as you imply.  Nevertheless, I'd rather an ENBoards with this kind of dialogue (and the inevitable occasional ugliness) than one without.


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## Simon Magalis (Mar 11, 2002)

"If implemented"?... I am not talking about some sort of ruling from on high, I am just talking about common sense. The kind of discussion this promotes isn't discussion, its just taking up space. Just my opinion.


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## rounser (Mar 11, 2002)

> "If implemented"?... I am not talking about some sort of ruling from on high, I am just talking about common sense. The kind of discussion this promotes isn't discussion, its just taking up space. Just my opinion.




Well, if you're talking about noise-to-signal ratio, that's another kettle of fish...


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## Swack-Iron (Mar 11, 2002)

noretoc said:
			
		

> *Well, first I havn't seen the trailer.  I was playing D&D, LOL.  Anyone know if it is available online?
> *




Yes, at Apple's Quicktime trailer site(which is a great place to see lots of trailers, including Star Wars).

Specific link to the new Episode II trailer is http://starwars.apple.com/ep2/clone_war/index.html


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## Rogue (Mar 11, 2002)

*Spiderman trailer?*

Even if the movie turns out to be poop, I'm going to give it a swell amount of credit for the amount of "flashiness" put into it.  C'mon, who hasn't tried to picture what an actual army of SD's and what-have-you looks like?  During a scene in the action-packed trailer, there are eight (eight!) SD's firing up for flight!  And underneath them is an army!  The battle at the end was crawling with people and special effects, including 14-15 Jedi in a fighting pit of sorts.  But I'm holding out on a verdict 'till I see the movie in it's entirety. 

On another note, is there an online version of the Spiderman trailer yet?  I would really like to see that, and would appreciate it if someone had any information it.

-Rogue


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## Pielorinho (Mar 11, 2002)

Missed the trailer.  I was out seeing the movie Focus -- and now I have a dent in my forehead.  If you look in the dent, you can see a phrase printed backward:  "Prejudice is Bad," it says.  Man, that moral hurt when it hit me over the head.

I'll go see the movie, but strictly on inertia.  I do think it would be even cooler if they introduced a sith lord who fought with a light saber in each hand

-and one in his mouth.  Now THAT would be REALLY cool.

Daniel


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## Some guy from Ohio (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider,
    I applaud you and your stand, though I don’t agree with you.  I’ve been following the various Star Wars threads and you are consistent.  I am a huge Star Wars fan that is constantly being driven to distraction by the “bashing” threads, but I stay silent because everyone can have an opinion.  Stand by yours and take any flaming with pride.
    And one more point for mmu1.  







> Amidala runs around shooting at things looking a lot like Lea, a lot of soldiers stand around looking a lot like stormtroopers, there's a bounty hunter just like Boba Fett and a ship just like Boba Fett's,





SPOILERS
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
 Amidala is Leia's mother, the soldiers are clone troopers, the template for stormtroopers, and the bounty hunter is Jango Fett, Boba's father.  This is where Boba Fett gets his armor and ship called Slave 1.


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## Methinkus (Mar 11, 2002)

i wonder what ever happened to Sauron-with-a-Pointy-hat


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## mmu1 (Mar 11, 2002)

Some guy from Ohio said:
			
		

> *Wolfspider,
> I applaud you and your stand, though I don’t agree with you.  I’ve been following the various Star Wars threads and you are consistent.  I am a huge Star Wars fan that is constantly being driven to distraction by the “bashing” threads, but I stay silent because everyone can have an opinion.  Stand by yours and take any flaming with pride.
> And one more point for mmu1.
> <Snipped Spoiler Space>
> Amidala is Leia's mother, the soldiers are clone troopers, the template for stormtroopers, and the bounty hunter is Jango Fett, Boba's father.  This is where Boba Fett gets his armor and ship called Slave 1. *




Do tell... Next thing you'll be telling me Leia and Luke are related and Darth Vader is their father... Have you by any chance missed this part of my post?:

" To me at least, a lot of it felt completely irrelevant when it wasn't ripping off the previous movies for a cheap sentimental reaction."

There is no visual continuity between the movies - items from the older movies have simply been ripped out and stuck into the prequels in a clumsy attempt to generate a sense of continuity, and in many cases (R2 droids originally being used in the taxi-cab yellow, pretty, 50's hood-ornament shaped Naboo ships? Right...) they stick out like a sore thumb, and are obvious for what they are - in there for the sake of a weak tie-in rather than for the benefit of the story.


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## Gargoyle (Mar 11, 2002)

I thought the trailer was great.  For two people who see eye to eye on dragons 100%, Wolfspider and I seem to be polar opposites on Star Wars...  

The thing that pleased me more than anything about the trailer is that it was more of what I thought the other ones should have been.  This one seemed more focused on the overall story, and less on the subplots of the several different relationships, ie Anakin/Amidala, Anakin/Obi-Wan, etc.

I'm particularly looking forward to Palpatine's early conversations with Anakin, and the "dead horse with a new twist" discussions here on Anakin's use of two lightsabers.


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## your_mother (Mar 11, 2002)

*My opinion*



			
				rounser said:
			
		

> *FotR left too much out from the book!
> Phantom Menace had Jar Jar, midi-chlorians and Jake Lloyd!
> FotR is highly overrated!
> Episode II's trailer isn't exciting!
> ...




Rounser, I love you.

And on that note (while I haven't read this entire thread) I think it's neat that people have stopped bashing at / defending the Trailer and immediately gone for each other's throats. It's beautiful.

Possible SPOILERS

Now, about Episode II: From what I've read, it is supposed to feature lots of Mr. Fett Senior. This is good.

Also, there will be less Jar Jar. This is also good.

And finally, it's going to lead up to Anakin's fall (maybe not in this movie, but eventually doggonit!) and that's going to be neat too.

Honestly, I didn't see Episode I in the theatre because there wasn't enough lines for Mr. Maul. I like bad guys. I like bad guys with lots of lines. That made me sad, so I didn't see it. Instead, I bought it on VHS: talk about disappointing! It was a cool film--for what it was, mind you--and I enjoyed watching it a couple of times. But then I noticed that I wasn't seeing the whole screen; it had been PAN-N-SCANNED! This made me angry, angry, angry. Needless to say, I ditched the VHS tape and will probably be buying the DVD some day, when all my cash is not going into gaming books and bills.

End SPOILERS and my awful opinion


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## madriel (Mar 11, 2002)

Popped over to apple.com to take a look at the trailer.  It looks like AotC will be much better than Phantom Menace.  

However, I found some of the scenes visually confusing.  Someone said previously  that they found some scenes too busy and I agree.  The brief time Anakin and Amidala were speaking they seemed rather wooden.  The political aspect of the plot shown in the trailer seemed good with Palpatine grabbing extra powers through legitimate means.

I was planning on waiting for this to come out on video, but I think I may give this one a chance at the theatre after all.  (On cheap night )


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## Gizzard (Mar 11, 2002)

> Popped over to apple.com to take a look at the trailer. It looks like AotC will be much better than Phantom Menace.




Maybe we should compare apples to apples by comparing the EP1 trailers to the EP2 trailers.   

Remember the excitement when the EP1 trailers came out?  Everyone loved them; there was huge excitement and buzz; everyone in the world was going to go see the movie on opening night because it had created such a stir.  

But the truth of trialers is this: if you spend a couple hundred million dollars on spectacular effects for a two hour movie then you surely have enough material to string together 90 seconds of images that look like they might be interesting.  

Thats the thing about EP1 as a movie; while it looked just spiffy all the time, it sucked from a plot, acting and character point of view.   That makes it a perfect source to be cut up and made into an exciting trailer, but it was pretty painful as a moviegoing experience.  

Do I expect more from EP2?  Why would I!?


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## trancejeremy (Mar 11, 2002)

I thought the trailer was pretty good. 

I guess this is where the movies completely go astray from the various books, comics, and such, though.

That is why I dislike George Lucas - why would he let companies create a background for Boba Fett, when he knew very well he'd simply create his own for the prequel trilogy. 

I mean, the whole Boba Fett background wasn't even started all that long ago - 5-6 years I think.  About the same times as the Sith stuff. (Which again, he knew he was going to change)

The only reason he let them do that was for money. But really, not all that much, comparatively. Same reason he would abruptly change CCG companies (not to mention RPG companies)

So really, instead of Attack of the Clones, the title should be the same as that new Ice Cube movie, "All about the Benjamins"

Anyway, my point is, while it looked pretty good, I'll either wait til it's on video and buy a used copy, or wait til it's on TV.

Of course, my theory is, he did all this because he's still bitter over Willow being a flop. This is his way of payback.


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## Mortaneus (Mar 11, 2002)

Well, here's some links for people to play with:

Links to Trailer, with mirrors:
http://www.movie-list.com

Complete Spoiler of Movie, including Script:
http://www.supershadow.com/

Enjoy.


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## Frostmarrow (Mar 11, 2002)

*Re: Spiderman trailer?*



			
				Rogue said:
			
		

> *Even if the movie turns out to be poop, I'm going to give it a swell amount of credit for the amount of "flashiness" put into it.  C'mon, who hasn't tried to picture what an actual army of SD's and what-have-you looks like?  During a scene in the action-packed trailer, there are eight (eight!) SD's firing up for flight!  And underneath them is an army!  The battle at the end was crawling with people and special effects, including 14-15 Jedi in a fighting pit of sorts.  But I'm holding out on a verdict 'till I see the movie in it's entirety.
> 
> On another note, is there an online version of the Spiderman trailer yet?  I would really like to see that, and would appreciate it if someone had any information it.
> 
> -Rogue *




Take a look at http://www.apple.com. Under their QuickTime-tab they have all sorts of trailers. Both Spiderman trailers and all four EpII trailers for example.


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## Corinth (Mar 11, 2002)

Saw the new trailer.  Now looking forward to watching the film, for--if nothing else--I will finally get to see Mace Windu in action.


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## Fenros (Mar 11, 2002)

If anyone even remembers my posts on Episode I, you know that I really thought that movie was poorly done from a writing stand point and a directing one. (The visual effects were stunning, the art production looked great, except for maybe 2-3 things). But anyways, I hated it.

I've also voiced my opinions about the possible (notice the word "POSSIBLE") poor quality Episode II .... IF Lucas continues with his current track history. So just to let you all be fully aware, I'm not a LUCAS LOVING FANBOY or apologists or whatever. 

With that said, I actually had fun watching the newest trailer. The first two didn't really do that much for me, but the latest one got my pulse up quite a bit. My only gripe (besides still seeing evidence of bad dialogue lines) is that they perhaps showed too much. Oh, and I saw clearly enough what was going on in each of the scenes being flashed in front of me. So did my friend next to me. I think some the rest of you here have poor "Spot" skills.

This movie could still suck regardless. I'm going to try my best to stay neutral until I see it. I do remember being excited about the EpI trailer too and look how that turned out. But it is possible that Lucas has 'warmed' up a bit now being in the directing chair again after so long. If you don't practice your craft often, you get rusty. I'm hoping all the mistakes from Ep.I were because he was rusty and hopefully in Ep.II he's his head back in the game. But based off interviews and behind the scenes stuff, I think Lucas is losing quality more due to the fact that he's so out of touch on what makes cool movies cool.....and less to do with that fact that he's a bit rusty at directing.

Like we all say though, who knows for sure till we see it right? But Vegas odds suggest it'll suck too. Here's hoping Lucas proves us wrong.

mmu1 wrote:







> Yoda looks fake, Anakin does a silly Matrix-like jump out of an air-car sans a parachute




Uh, where in the Matrix did anyone dive off a building or an aircar? If you make a reference, make a proper one there okay? If that type of action stunt has any similar feel to it from another movie, it'll more like when Bond jumped after the plane in the beginning of 'Goldeneye' or something like that. Why is it that anytime someone does an extreme high adrenaline style thing its called "Matrix" like?  

(Possible SPOILER) I'm thinking Anakin was probably chasing Zam Wessel, who's in the other air car, and he took a route where he came out in a lane above hers. So, he jumps off his air car, plummets thru traffic and probably lands on top of Zam's car some distance below. Just a guess though.

As for Yoda, yeah....he looks somewhat fake. He did when he was a puppet, he does again as a CGI generated character. What do you want ILM to do, get a real one? Geez louise people, lighten up. Who cares if he only looks 90% real. Better than most movies with lower budgets. Would you rather us go back to Star Trek head mutation aliens instead of artistically creating more visually different ones? Yoda looks good enough. I think you're being too picky on something that never existed in the real world.



> Amidala runs around shooting at things while looking a lot like Lea, soldiers stand around looking a lot like stormtroopers, there's a bounty hunter just like Boba Fett and a ship just like Boba Fett's




Oh come on, you can't be that naive!  



> and the combat droids are still all over the place as if this was a cartoon




Yah, because Robots = Cartoons right? I thought the same thing when I saw "Terminator 2: Judgement Day". It was so cartoony with all those Terminators running around in the future. I thought to myself, " Man....Cameron's gone all kiddy by making the foes machines so that when they're destroyed no one is actually dying!"



> ... To me at least, a lot of it felt completely irrelevant when it wasn't ripping off the previous movies for a cheap sentimental reaction.




Yeah, I didn't like it when I saw the same friggin design for the Star Destroyers and the Storm Troopers in "Empire Strikes Back". Yeah, they gave us some new versions, the Super Star Destroyers and the Snow Stormtroopers, but man.....the recycled a lot of old stuff from Ep. IV too. How cheap was that? 

Okay, I think I went too far. But I had to tease you for a bit. It seemed your post left it so wide open for such a response. Okay, its out of my system now.

Again, let me re-cap my opinions. 

-I hated Episode 1
-I liked the latest Ep. 2 trailer
-I wouldn't surprised if Ep. 2 sucked as bad as Ep.1
-I will avoid the first week, to avoid crowds, to wait and hear reviews, and to not contribute to the first weekend ticket sales (as an insignificant little rebellion to Lucas for his tragic waste that was Ep.1)


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## Ashtal (Mar 11, 2002)

**grumble*  When did they show it?*

My understanding was that it was supposed to be on between Malcom in the Middle and X-files, so I tuned it right at the end of Alias.  Did they air it then, or did my local Global television station bleed right over it? 

Any RealPlayer copies of that trailer floating around on the web yet? 


Ashtal


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> Uh, where in the Matrix did anyone dive off a building or an aircar?  If you make a reference, make a proper one there okay?




Well, let's see.  There was the time when Trinity leapt of the building to get away from the agents right at the beginning.

Hmmm.  And, although it's not an aircar, Trinity does leap out of a crashing helicopter.

Oh, and there's that very important and suspenseful scene when Neo jumps off of the building to see if he can make it over to the other one and "free his mind" as Morpheus says.

Sure, these events don't really look a whole lot like what Anakin does in the trailer (it looks like something from Samurai Jack, actually), but you were awful harsh with what ended up being a false claim.

Ummm...just don't be so snarky, ok?


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> My understanding was that it was supposed to be on between Malcom in the Middle and X-files, so I tuned it right at the end of Alias. Did they air it then, or did my local Global television station bleed right over it?




They must have run something right over it, 'cause it came on right before X-Files.  I was afaid my local Global station was going to do that too...but the intro to the trailer came on with only a few seconds snipped off the front.


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## Decado (Mar 11, 2002)

I watched the trailer this morning. I must say it has given me new enthusiasim for the movies release. The other trailers did not do much to interest me and then the whole Nynsnc debacle really killed all eagerness I had to see the movie. This new trailer has really changed my opinion and I am looking forward to the movie.

Decado


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## mmu1 (Mar 11, 2002)

"Uh, where in the Matrix did anyone dive off a building or an aircar? If you make a reference, make a proper one there okay? If that type of action stunt has any similar feel to it from another movie, it'll more like when Bond jumped after the plane in the beginning of 'Goldeneye' or something like that. Why is it that anytime someone does an extreme high adrenaline style thing its called "Matrix" like?"  

Because the way the scene was cut reminded me of a number of shots from the Matrix... However, if you prefer I could say he does a Mila Jovovich impression from the "Fifth Element".  Anyway, I'm sure Yoda would have something to say about "high adrenaline stunts" being a path to the darkside  

"Oh come on, you can't be that naive!"

For the second time... I KNOW why all these things look as they do, and what they're doing in the movie - I just feel it's incredibly lazy to fall back on things like Amidala looking and acting EXACTLY like her daughter, Boba Fett just being a chip off the old block (Jenga Fett, wasn't it?), clone-troopers being just like stormtroopers... It's all a clumsy way of pretending there is continuity, because the story so far has been week and hardly provides any.

"Yah, because Robots = Cartoons right? I thought the same thing when I saw "Terminator 2: Judgement Day". It was so cartoony with all those Terminators running around in the future. I thought to myself, " Man....Cameron's gone all kiddy by making the foes machines so that when they're destroyed no one is actually dying!""

Right... Because terminators walking among rubble littered with human bone is just like "destroyer droids" moving around by rolling merrily along.  

"As for Yoda, yeah....he looks somewhat fake. He did when he was a puppet, he does again as a CGI generated character. What do you want ILM to do, get a real one?"

He looked better when he was a puppet, and he actually looked better in Episode I where he was CGI. If you're not going to take the time to make sure Yoda looks good....


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> He looked better when he was a puppet, and he actually looked better in Episode I where he was CGI.




I thought Yoda WAS a puppet in The Phantom Menace.  If he was CGI in Ep. I, then they seem to have taken a step back in the quality of the effects then in Episode II....

EDIT:  Clarified last sentence.


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## qstor (Mar 11, 2002)

Just to add my two cents. I think it rocked! The only negative thing I can say it I wish there was more modeling and actors used in the war scenes instead of CG stuff but otherwise it looked great.

Mike


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## Ashtal (Mar 11, 2002)

**bangs head on table**

Alright, curse you, Global!!!  And every other Canadian television channel who makes a habit of bleeding over their program onto American stations with the same shows.  And double-curse you CRTC for allowing them to do that.  If I wanted to watch the bloody thing on Canadian Television, I WOULD!

GAH!

I started swearing at the radio guys this morning when they started talking about the Star Wars trailer for 3 reasons:
1) They've been mocking Star Wars and the fans for two weeks now (they are very anti-geek).
2) NO ONE IN SUDBURY GOT TO SEE IT, unless they have satellite. 
3) And certainly these two morons wouldn't have seen it anyways, since they are so anti-geek/SW.

Grrr....

Edit: Okay, just downloaded and installed Quicktime, fired up the trailer...

WOW!  Okay, now I'm excited.  I got tinglies.


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## Gargoyle (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I thought Yoda WAS a puppet in The Phantom Menace.  If he was CGI in Ep. I, then they seem to have taken a step back in the quality of the effects then.... *




You're correct.  Yoda was a puppet, at least in most scenes.  I watched the making of it on the DVD and remember the pit Frank Oz was in, and being amazed at the complexity of Yoda's controls.  

I wouldn't be surprised if some of the "obviously CGI" scenes with Yoda in Episode II are just some excellent puppeteering by Frank Oz again.  Lucas prefers that Oz animate him, rather than computers.

Of course, if Yoda uses his lightsaber in Episode II, CGI will probably be a must.


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## mmu1 (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I thought Yoda WAS a puppet in The Phantom Menace.  If he was CGI in Ep. I, then they seem to have taken a step back in the quality of the effects then.... *




Eh... Whathever he was, he looked better in Epsiode I.   His long, wispy hair in particular just didn't look quite right, and he looked a little to shiny.


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## mearlus (Mar 11, 2002)

Hmm...  From what I get from friends, and posts like these is that Lucas pissed them off w/ Episode 1 so much that they are not willing to accept that another movie is coming out and are giving it a predestination of crap.  They rip the trailers to peices, whine that it will suck, yet...  they will download every trailer I get from me, read every link I send.  It's almost like a "everyone else doesn't like it, so I wont" syndrom.

Yes, I think Episode 1 could have been better.  A lot better.  It wasn't, so lets move on and see if Lucas can make us believers yet.  I can't really understand how people can have an opinion of a movie that isn't actually out yet!  Yes, I know there are scripts floating around...  I've read a few, and I've read one that seems to be the "real" script, or I should say clift notes of it.  So far it follows in line of what all of the trailers show.  You know what?  I liked the script, and I must say that the script that I did read is action packed.  Granted that this might be a fake script, very posssible.  But if its not, I think a lot of the people that are ripping the trailers and Lucas are going to have to eat their words.  But I'm realistic, it might be crap.  I've got an idea, why don't we wait for the actual MOVIE to be released before we judge whether it's crap or not?  

Another question for everyone that think that the trailers are crap; What do you think the trailers should be like?

Until May 16th

Mearlus


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## King_Stannis (Mar 11, 2002)

i'm a big advocate that you shouldn't see a movie based on its trailer...having said that, i must say that i was excited after seeing this one. of course, i was pre-disposed to liking it - i am excited about the new movie.

hearing palpatine announce the creation of "a grand army of the republic", and knowing what it will grow into....well, that was just pretty damn cool.

i was convinced that 75% of the people on these boards who loudly denounced this movie would end up seeing it anyways.

you can raise that total to about 95% now.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> Granted that this might be a fake script, very posssible. But if its not, I think a lot of the people that are ripping the trailers and Lucas are going to have to eat their words.




I'm afraid I won't be eating anything, my friend, 'cause I've seen the actual trailer and was left utterly unimpressed with it.  I'm not making a judgement based on something I haven't seen, after all.  I haven't judged the movie to be good or bad, although I must say that after seeing the trailers I am not very excited about the movie.

By the way, it's my right as a consumer to make a judgement based on the two things that you disregard out of hand:  previous experience and advertisements.  (Consumers can't buy and try out EVERYTHING they see, after all.  They have to make informed decisions.)  Episode I was a disappointment to me, so that's one strike against the prequel series right off the bat.  (Notice I'm talking about the prequel series and not the OT.)  The advertisements have failed to interest me as well, so that's two strikes.  Now, the actual movie may be awesome, but my impression so far is that it will not be.

Since you mentioned eating, I realized that I was hungry, so let's take an example from fast food.  The Star Wars movies are the cinematic equivalent of fast food, after all. 

Say I went to The Lord of the Onion Rings one day and saw a beautiful picture of a Kine of Araw burger.  The picture was so appealing--the meat looked cooked to perfection yet still juicy, the bun and dressing were immaculately constructed, etc.-- that I ordered one of the sandwiches right way.  

When I bit into the burger, however, I found that it was utterly digusting and foul-tasting, as if the animal had grazed in Mordor and been butchered by orcs with filthy scimitars.  Choking down what I could, I left the restaurant with a bad impression (and the feeling that I was being watched by an all-seeing presence).  

Now, imagine that a couple years later I happen to find myself in front of another Lord of the Onion Rings.  I glance at the front window and am confronted by a sloppy looking and utterly unattractive picture of a Kine of Araw burger.  The meat looks burnt and the bun is demolished.  Am I going to go in and order a burger?  

No way!

I'll probably end up going to Return of the Burger King down the road. 

Note:  This confusing comparison has been brought to you by Wolfspider's sleepy morning brain.


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## mearlus (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm afraid I won't be eating anything, 'cause I've seen the actual trailer and was unimpressed with it.  I'm not making a judgement based on something I haven't seen, after all.  I haven't judged the movie to be good or bad, although I must say that after seeing the trailers I am not very excited about the movie.
> 
> *




I see.  My rant was geared more to people judging the movie itself, not the trailers.  Personally, I liked the trailers.  They weren't the best, or as grand as I would have liked them, but I did not dislike them.

As for the advertising for the movie...  They've started that already?  I haven't even noticed.  hehe  I never pay attention to advertising, I guess it's the "anti-popup windows" in me that gives me an immunity to propaganda like that.  Because I don't notice it, I guess that's why I don't formulate that into how others may judge a forth coming movie.  

And it's more of the hypocritical people that irritate me.  The ones that whine about it, yet will go to all ends to read/see more before it's out even though they have already decided they will rip at it before they have actually seen/read anything about it.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> And it's more of the hypocritical people that irritate me. The ones that whine about it, yet will go to all ends to read/see more before it's out even though they have already decided they will rip at it before they have actually seen/read anything about it.




If you haven't already, you need to see the movie _Jay and Silent Bob Strike Back_. This movie is very relevent to this discussion in a number of ways.... 



> As for the advertising for the movie... They've started that already?




Yes, they have.

*groans*

They had a week-long advertising blitz just for the TRAILER that was released yesterday.  Talk about trying to build some hype....

By the way, if you really want to read some sick responses (both positive and negative) to the new trailer, follow this link:

http://www.aintitcoolnews.com/tb_display.cgi?id=11731#425365

You'll weep in joy that you have such a wonderful, peaceful place such as the ENWorld message boards to post your questions anc comments.


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## Dr Midnight (Mar 11, 2002)

Man, I get so depressed reading posts from jaded epI haters. 

I loved the trailer. The war of the worlds-style planet walkers and armies of droids and clones firing away just diddles my movie nub. Yoda in action. Mace Windu in action. A small army of Jedi in action. Plus, a notably more Star Warsey feel than epI. I can't wait.


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## Berandor (Mar 11, 2002)

I've seen it several times now.
The effects are great, but somehow I just don't care for it.

No expectancy rising in me, sadly. There are so many little tidbits cut together, without any coherance mostly.

I'm reminded of the slogan "Size DOES matter" for Godzilla. Big action, little value.

I'm sure the CGI will be terrific, but if all lines are transported like "Excuse ME, I'm in head of secuirty, madam"...

Don't get me wrong, the OT actors weren't shakespeare, as well, but at least the dialogue had spirit, or humour, or timing, or anything in it.
Many quotes from the first three movies, none from EPI. Will this one be better?

I can imagine when George Lucas came to Hayden Christensen and Ewan McGregor, telling them he had the great idea that Anakin would jump out of a glider to fall a hundred stories before hitting the glider he aimed for.
Ewan McGregor's comment: "I hate it when he does that."

I think the problem is that the first three movies were just fun movies, no explanations needed, just a pulp adventure. Nowadays, pulp isn't enough anymore. Ain't no dumb action movies around anymore, too (or at least no good ones).

The problem with providing depth and explanations is that you have to do it right, and not some half-hearted attempt. If you need to mention midi-chlorians, give it the full treatment.

No, I'm not excited. Merely bored.

Berandor


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## Some guy from Ohio (Mar 11, 2002)

This is five pages on just the trailer, right?  Imagine the flame wars when the movie actually comes out.  Who needs a battle droid/clone trooper/jedi war when we can have our own huge bloody war here  I guess Wolfspider will be the Commander of the anti-AotC forces.  Myself, I will try to remain neutral, like an AotC Flamewar Switzerland.  I hope that the movie does not suck or I may have to join Wolfspider's forces on the darkside.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> I guess Wolfspider will be the Commander of the anti-AotC forces.




Naw.  I'll stay behind the scenes, completely safe and out of the action.  Pulling the strings.  Kind of like a phantom menace.  Yeah.


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## Tom Cashel (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *
> You know as well as I do that SOMEONE was going to create a thread about this sooner or later.  After I saw the trailer I sat back at my comptuer, and what did I see in front of me?  The ENWorld message boards.  After scanning the threads to make sure that nobody had created one already, I started this one.
> *




And kept on going, apparently...note the data as of 12 noon:

*Total Posts: 62*
User Posts 
*Wolfspider  13*
mmu1  4 
rounser  4 
Corporate Dog  3 
Ashtal  2 
beta-ray  2 
Gargoyle  2 
Simon Magalis  2 
mearlus  2 
Some guy from Ohio  2 
Decado  1 
trancejeremy  1 
Rogue  1 
your_mother  1 
TBoarder  1 
Pielorinho  1 
Swack-Iron  1 
Berandor  1 
Buttercup  1 
Mortaneus  1 
nemmerle  1 
King_Stannis  1 
qstor  1 
drowdude  1 
noretoc  1 
Forlorn  1 
Wolf72  1 
Frostmarrow  1 
Gizzard  1 
Crothian  1 
Methinkus  1 
Jamdin  1 
Corinth  1 
Dr Midnight  1 
Fenros  1 
madriel  1 

That said, I liked the trailer.  The CGI scenes looked to me like Ralph McQuarrie's original conceptual art for Star Wars, which gives it that neo-retro feel that Phantom Menace lacked.  And since this film lacks that little twerp who couldn't act, it's automatically off to a better start, IMO.

I'm excited for the film, but to me the it's the same bubble-gum space opera it's always been, ever since I saw Star Wars in the theater at the tender age of five.  I'll see it, and it'll be fun, but I'm not going to get all worked up over George Lucas or how much he deviates from Star Wars novels...

By the way, I just have to respond to the many folks who said the CGI scenes looked "busy" and they "couldn't tell what was going on."  Are you _usually_ able to tell what's going on in a three second snippet of film?  If so, I applaud your visual acuity.  Or did you record it and inspect the freeze frame?

I think we should start a new thread, because I'm curious: just what do people _expect_ from Star Wars that it causes such kvetching?


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## ForceUser (Mar 11, 2002)

Looks awesome. Can't wait.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> And kept on going, apparently...note the data as of 12 noon




Well, yes, I did keep posting.  Is there a reason why I should have stopped? 

I asked a mod to close the thread, but since he didn't and people seemed to be interested in the topic, I kept posting and reacting to what people said.  I might as well...I have time on my hands this morning.  And so do you, apparently, since you spend enough time to tally all the responses.  Thank you for putting my name all in bold like that.  It makes me feel all special. 



> By the way, I just have to respond to the many folks who said the CGI scenes looked "busy" and they "couldn't tell what was going on." Are you usually able to tell what's going on in a three second snippet of film? If so, I applaud your visual acuity. Or did you record it and inspect the freeze frame?




Boy, people sure are snarkly on the message boards lately.  Anyway, if it wasn't going to look good in the trailer as a snippet, why feature it?  A trailer relies mainly on visuals (and some sounds) to create atmosphere.  If including just a few seconds of action is going to look sloppy and busy, then why even include it?  Wouldn't it be better to take one scene from the movie (maybe the gladiatorial scene at the end of the trailer) and then show a few more seconds of it?  I think that would have been more effective.

By the way, this is my 14th response to this thread, assuming that your count is correct.  Just thought I'd save you some addition, Tom.


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## Tom Cashel (Mar 11, 2002)

LOL, Wolf.  You can click on the link under "Replies" in the general forum and get an updated tally!  Mine was copied and pasted.

The founder of BADD (Bitching About other peoples' Dragon Dilemmas) calling others snarky?  Pot calling the kettle black, p'raps?

Well, gee--I just thought you'd stop posting after saying the trailer was sloppy, busy, boring, uninspiring, _one_ time.  But why say something once when you can say it 14 times? ...

Anyhow, no offense intended, Wolf.  I also came on here looking for a thread about the Trailer, and like many others, I found this one annoying.

Example: the time I popped into a Buffy thread and asked what was so great about that show anyhow?  I really do hate it.  So...why did I feel the need to bust in on a bunch of Buffy fans and tell them that what they liked was crap?  Sure, it was my right...I'm a member...it was a public discussion.  But once they finished yelling at me, I saw their point.  Just because I had the right to post my complaints, why bother unless I just felt like being a troll?  So I apologized, and now I don't do that sort of thing.


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## Some guy from Ohio (Mar 11, 2002)

> Naw. I'll stay behind the scenes, completely safe and out of the action. Pulling the strings. Kind of like a phantom menace. Yeah.



 Now I see your secret plan!  You must George Lucas in disguise as Wolfspider just like Sidious/Palpatine.  Get everybody worked up over the trailer and one will have to see the movie just to be able to continue the argument.  You are diabolical.  I'm watching you, Wolfspider!


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## Rinndalir (Mar 11, 2002)

Once again, I'd like to urge anyone who thought Ep 1 was a waste of film to boycott the opening week of Attack of the Clones (aka WORST TITLE EVAR). If this is the first you've heard of the boycott, spread the word around. There's certainly enough of a fanbase online to make a difference if enough people get the word out.


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## Some guy from Ohio (Mar 11, 2002)

Sorry Rinndalir, can't do it.  I've been planning on being there on the first night for 3 years.


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## TBoarder (Mar 11, 2002)

Rinndalir said:
			
		

> *Once again, I'd like to urge anyone who thought Ep 1 was a waste of film to boycott the opening week of Attack of the Clones (aka WORST TITLE EVAR). If this is the first you've heard of the boycott, spread the word around. There's certainly enough of a fanbase online to make a difference if enough people get the word out. *




Yes, please.  That way I won't have to deal with opening day crowds.  

Seriously though, there's NOT enough people online to boycott the film in any way that will make ANY difference at all in Attack of the Clones (a title I like ).  I love how people on the internet delude themselves into thinking that they have this much importance in the scheme of things.  For every 1,000 people who don't go because of an internet boycott, 1,000 more will be at the theater in force on opening day.  Sorry Rin, I don't think it's gonna make any difference, which means I'm still gonna have to deal with the crowds on opening day. Ugh.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> The founder of BADD (Bitching About other peoples' Dragon Dilemmas)




Oh, that's very clever!  Although it does break the rules about abbreviations...but I still like it.  It's just the kind of personal attack that gets my blood pumping! 



> Example: the time I popped into a Buffy thread and asked what was so great about that show anyhow? I really do hate it. So...why did I feel the need to bust in on a bunch of Buffy fans and tell them that what they liked was crap? Sure, it was my right...I'm a member...it was a public discussion. But once they finished yelling at me, I saw their point. Just because I had the right to post my complaints, why bother unless I just felt like being a troll? So I apologized, and now I don't do that sort of thing.




Let me tell you a story about something that happened to me once.  I joined a Dark Crystal mailing list because I loved the movie and wanted to share opinions and thoughts with other fans.  For a few weeks everything was just as I had imagined it would be--a virtual paradise for Gelfling fetishists. 

Then this one guy posted a message saying how much he hated the movie and gave a lot of really damning reasons why.

Similar to how you seem to view my comments here, I thought this condemnation was out of place, and I flat out told him that if he didn't like Dark Crystal, then he shouldn't rain on our parade.  I said that he was just here to stir up trouble.

And you know what happened?

*I got banned from the list.*

I was shocked.  Then the mod sent me a note explaining why he had banned me.  He believed that a person could post whatever opinion he or she had about the film, positive or negative, and that I was trying to squelch another poster's beliefs.

Although at first I was sore, I have since realized that it was a admirable thing to do.  The owner of the list really had ethical standards that I proved lacking in my own character.

Imagine that!  Defending the right to freedom of speech.  Wow...what a concept! 

Post Count in this Thread:  15


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## Henry (Mar 11, 2002)

What's all this virtual beating on my fellow B.A.D.D.-boy, Wolfspider? Just because you dislike something is no clue to bash the person making the statement.

Wolfspider, I have a feeling that you are on the receiving end of a backlash that has little to do with you. If 15 people have said that your favorite cereal sucks, and you decide that the next person to insult your preferences in this manner is really going to "get it", and then a 16th person tells you the same thing, well... BOOM! 

However, I still have to say that I disagree with most anti-Episode I and II posters, here. I went into the movies not expecting anything but fun and stunning visual elements, and I was not disappointed. I fully expect to enjoy the movie, even if the plot does not blow me away with complexity and depth. 

How many reading this who disliked Episode I hated the podrace scenes? How many hated "Jinn and Tonic" fighting the battle droids aboard the Nemoidian Command ship? How many hated the final fight between Jinn and Maul?

Every one of these elements were worth the price of admission for me, as well as purchasing the VHS. I don't expect a movie to thrill me every second I see it, but I do expect to be entertained. If I want deep discussion of the human condition and pathos, and deep character exploration, I'll either read a book or play an RPG.

As for the poster who claimed that the movie should be entitled "All about the Benjamins": First, your arguments actually have little substantiation, due to Lucas' film history. This is a man who DOESN'T GIVE A **** whether his movies make money or not, if it's a pet project. Unless his fortunes really changed during the recession, Uncle George is still independantly wealthy, both for ILM and his many other projects and invenstments. Lucas is not only known for Star Wars and the first Indiana Jones film, he is also the film genius behind both _Willow_ and _Howard the Duck._  Neither of the latter two movies made much money at the Box office, but he fielded them because he found them fun, and he _wanted to do them._ I am one of those rare individuals who loved the Howard the Duck movie - so institutionalize me already. They miffed a few things from the comic book, but in all they captured the tongue-in-cheek feel of the first ten comic books or so. IMO, that series went downhill soon after about issue #12 anyway.

From the discussions about Ep I onward, he has not added or taken away anything that he didn't want to in the first place. (I wouldn't be surprised to see N'Sync STILL make cameo shots in AotC, with a hidden "**** you" message in the CGI part of the shots. After all, the guy's face appears in several of the EP I CGI shots, after an ILM'er put them in as a joke, and he spotted them YET left them in for fans to find.) Lucas, remember, borrowed 12 million dollars from 20th century Fox to make Star Wars, and wanted no percentage bonuses from the Movie - ONLY the toy rights. At the time, it was a risky and almost suicidal move, but it paid off for him in a BIG way.

Lucas was not a prodigy then, and isn't now - like any really good producer/filmmaker, he makes movies HE wants to see. He had the fortune of producing two movies (Star Wars and Raiders of the Lost Ark) at a time when the U.S. and the ENTIRE WORLD needed them most.

Did Lucas make a mistake with Jar Jar Binks? Ask almost any child under ten that has not been tainted with the cynicism of parents who hated the movie, and they will tell you that Jar Jar was their favorite character in the whole movie. I asked my wife about this once, and she told me that at her Center, the two things kids mostly play in pretend games are either (A) Pokemon characters or (B) Jar Jar Binks. As adults, many fans can't stand him. As children, our favorites were R2-D2, and the aliens at Mos Eisley. And of course, the Jedi knights are cool. 

Now, the Jedi are still cool, and we get to see oh so much fun stuff.

If Lucas made a mistake in Ep I, it was too much reliance on CGI. That movie's CGI effects got so much screen time, it was like watching a kid play with a new Cap Gun for christmas. Even the action and adventure segments took a backseat to the CGI. BUt then, that's my take.

First, Blade 2; then, Spider Man; then Star Wars II; finally, THE WORLD! Muah-ha-ha-ha....

Oh, sorry, wrong thought process got mixed in there...


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## Wild Karrde (Mar 11, 2002)

Rinndalir said:
			
		

> *Once again, I'd like to urge anyone who thought Ep 1 was a waste of film to boycott the opening week of Attack of the Clones (aka WORST TITLE EVAR). If this is the first you've heard of the boycott, spread the word around. There's certainly enough of a fanbase online to make a difference if enough people get the word out. *




And once again I must urge everyone who doesn't like it to NOT go see it at all.  A week doesn't mean anything.  Hold your head up high and make a true stance.  Boycott the movie entirely.  Don't see it in the theater, don't watch it or purchase it on VHS or DVD and never watch it on T.V.  Then people will believe what you say.  Otherwise it's just a meaningless gesture.

Kinda like saying...I thought the original Disney movie of Peter Pan was awful so I'm gonna wait a week to see Return to Neverland.  That's simply silly.  I'm not gonna see it at all.  If you don't like it don't see it.  That;s the only way to truly show how mad you are, hit them in the pocket book for good.  Not for a one week delay. (FYI I like peter pan my daughter makes me watch it all the time  )

As for me I'll be there opening night with bells on my toes.  Excited and anxious for the chance to see EPII.  And those of you who skip it completely make it that much easier for me to get into.

Thanks.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

I respect anyone's right to like the prequel movies or think that the trailer was awesome.  But I reserve the right to think otherwise.

I'm trying to download it again and get a second look at it to see if the impression (or lack of one) remains, but I can't seem to get a connection.  I'm sure the countless hordes of fans are sucking up the bandwidth... 

Post Count in this Thread:  16


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## el-remmen (Mar 11, 2002)

> And once again I must urge everyone who doesn't like it to NOT go see it at all




Isn't this putting the cart before the horse?

I mean, how can we tell if we like it _unless_ we see it?


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## EricNoah (Mar 11, 2002)

nemmerle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Isn't this putting the cart before the horse?
> 
> I mean, how can we tell if we like it unless we see it? *




Well, I have never seen the Dungeons & Dragons movie.  I guess *technically* I can't say I don't like it.  But I wouldn't waste my time with it given reviews, previews, trailers, etc.  

Certainly it's possible to not like a trailer and then like the movie.  Or to read a bunch of negative reviews and then discover you liked the movie anyway.  

But unless you go somewhere where they have a money-back guarantee, once you've experienced the movie, like it or not, they have your money.  And then the studios report all of that income as a way of saying "look how many people liked our product" when it's really more like "look how many people took a chance on our product."  

In any case, given the previews I've seen thus far of EpII, I'm certainly willing to "take a chance" on it.  The Anakin actor seems a bit wooden from what I've seen so far, and Lucas' strength has never been in the script.  But I likes me some eye candy!


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## Randolpho (Mar 11, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Well, I have never seen the Dungeons & Dragons movie.  I guess *technically* I can't say I don't like it.  But I wouldn't waste my time with it given reviews, previews, trailers, etc.  *




<tangent>

You know... it's actually not that bad of a movie -- if you get the DVD and watch the deleted scenes (which really shouldn't have been deleted). I'm kinda getting tired of people picking on it so much.

Sure, the acting is pathetic all round (the best actors of the entire movie were Riff-raff himself Richard O'Brien and Marlon Wayans, neither of whom got top billing ), and some of the CGI was a little low-quality, but the sets, character development, and plot were very good. That movie *was* D&D. 

</tangent>


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## Tom Cashel (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *
> Oh, that's very clever! Although it does break the rules about abbreviations...but I still like it. It's just the kind of personal attack that gets my blood pumping!
> *




Not meant to be a "personal attack" at all, Wolf.  I thought "B.A.D.D." was an organization.

By the way, B.A.D.D. is an _acronym_, not an abbreviation.  

And you can stop counting, I already know you're monopolizing this particular "discussion."


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## kenjib (Mar 11, 2002)

Henry said:
			
		

> *How many reading this who disliked Episode I hated the podrace scenes? How many hated "Jinn and Tonic" fighting the battle droids aboard the Nemoidian Command ship? How many hated the final fight between Jinn and Maul?
> *




I thought episode I was okay.  Not a bad movie but not as good as the older ones.  It definitely had higher production values than most sci-fi movies and was a quality film worth seeing.  It also had better effects, costumes, and choreography than the older movies.

The podrace was pretty good but not nearly as good as something like the ol' death star trench run in EP IV, for example.  Consider how they built suspense by having several pilots, all with names, getting shot down and how you were made to care for each one.  I found this to be quite effective.  The pod race relied on the old "machine breaks down until the pilot magically hits some random switches and it works again" to build suspense.  Kind of a cop-out in my opinion.  Flipping a new metaphorical manual override switch every time something goes wrong is an old bit of worn out deus ex machina.  Consider when Han Solo hits the millenium falcon with his fist to get it going - that was very funny and a tongue in cheek way of having fun with this exact plot device.  That was a much more clever way of handling the same situation as the film was a bit self-aware regarding the fact that it was using a worn out cliche.  In episode I it is just blindly used without being aware of how worn out it is.  I won't delve into the whole believability issue regarding how such a racing industry, and experienced pilots, can even exist considering how the race unfolds, but this was a sticking point for me.

The tan battle droids were not at all threatening due to their comedic appearance (unlike the threatening storm troopers), which completely ruined them for me as villains.  I half expected them to do the Three Stooges eye-finger poke thing to Obi Wan because they really reminded me of the skeletons in Army of Darkness.

The fight between Jinn and Maul had no suspense or drama because Maul was never developed as a character.  He didn't seem like a very dangerous or important adversary because he never really did much throughout the film.  It was just a couple of guys fighting with glowing swords - not much beyond that.  It was okay but nothing special.  Darth Maul was only one step above mook - the "named mook."  Compare this to either of the duels between Darth Vader and Luke Skywalker, or even Darth Vader and the elder Obi Wan.  Dramatically, all three of those fights (one in each OT movie) were head and shoulders above the Darth Maul fight, even if the Darth Maul fight had more a contemporary choreography style.

The problem was the way in which the dramatic parts of the film did not relate closely with the action parts of the film.  The drama all wove throughout the non-action scenes, the political negiations mostly.  The action scenes didn't carry all that much impact and so they felt like little more than eye candy.  The movie just doesn't hold together very well - it meanders and lacks a focus of gravity.

On another note, I agree 100% with wolfspider that it's fair to judge a product by past history and advertisement.  You need to evaluate products before you buy them.  Furthermore, the trailor does give us insight into where the film is headed, what kinds of scenes it will entail, etc.


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## King_Stannis (Mar 11, 2002)

TBoarder said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yes, please.  That way I won't have to deal with opening day crowds.
> 
> Seriously though, there's NOT enough people online to boycott the film in any way that will make ANY difference at all in Attack of the Clones (a title I like ).  I love how people on the internet delude themselves into thinking that they have this much importance in the scheme of things.  For every 1,000 people who boycott because of an internet boycott, 1,000 more will be at the theater in force on opening day.  Sorry Rin, I don't think it's gonna make any difference, which means I'm still gonna have to deal with the crowds on opening day. Ugh.  *




Absolutely. 

I'm not going during the first week either. But I’m probably not going during the first week because of crowds and because I must line up a babysitter. So does that put me in with the “protesters”? If these “protesters” end up seeing the film 3 times, but just not on the first week, can that in any stretch of the imagination be called a “boycott”? What if the theaters are still sold out on day 8 and these protesters somehow wrangle up a ticket or two? Is that a protest? Today’s society has produced some really self-important and somewhat delusional people. If you’ve got it in your head that this movie will suck, then DON’T GO! In my opinion, it’s your loss. But I’d still have much more respect for you than these one week feel-gooders. Besides, I’ll let you in on a little secret. A movie’s real strength COMES from its staying power. “Titanic” did some of its best business four week from its release.  That’s when I ended up seeing it. Guess my own unsuspecting “four week” boycott didn’t work, did it. Yep…that’ll teach’em to make the highest grossing movie in history. So by all means, go on week 2, 3 or 4. Keep this movie in the top 10 as long as possible.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

Tom, I don't understand fully how I've offended you, but I would like to take this opportunity to publically appologize.  I'm truly sorry to have offended you.

Can we stop this petty little war of words now, please?

It's beginning to weigh heavily upon my conscience.


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## King_Stannis (Mar 11, 2002)

Wolfspider said:
			
		

> *Tom, I don't understand fully how I've offended you, but I would like to take this opportunity to publically appologize.  I'm truly sorry to have offended you.
> 
> Can we stop this petty little war of words now, please?
> 
> It's beginning to weigh heavily upon my conscience. *




awww, just when it was getting good 


"...use your aggressive feelings, boy. embrace your hatred. strike tom down and your journey toward the dark side will be complete..."

brought to you by chancellor palpatine, who can be seen in the upcoming "star wars II: attack of the clones" movie.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> "...use your aggressive feelings, boy. embrace your hatred. strike tom down and your journey toward the dark side will be complete..."










NEVER!!!

I'll NEVER join you!


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## Tom Cashel (Mar 11, 2002)

Where's that little.... ah, there it is:  

Geez, I'm not offended!   Nor am I at all interested in a bit part in _Thread Wars Episode II: Attack of the Flame_.  I'm also sorry if I offended you, Wolf.  I'm not interested in censoring anyone on these boards.

[side note: I'm suddenly reminding myself of Peter Sellers as President Muffley in _Dr. Strangelove_: "I'm sorry too, Dmitri.  No, you said you're sorry and I'm saying I'm sorry too, Dmitri!  I am perfectly capable of being just as sorry as you are Dmitri, so don't say you're sorrier than me!"  Funny movie.]

Anyhow, no offense.  Nothing to see here.  No one will be joining the dark side on this day.

(Unless you're not looking forward to _Attack of the Clones_...in that case you've obviously joined the Sith already.  )


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

Ahhh, good!  I feel much better.

I was feeling a little bit battered....


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## Tom Cashel (Mar 11, 2002)

But by stabbing the holy cow which is Star Wars, you must have expected it...

Search your feelings, Wolf, you know it to be true...


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## Duncan Idaho (Mar 11, 2002)

I thought that it looked pretty good. I might actually go see the movie rather than waiting for it to play on TV like I did with episode 1.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 11, 2002)

> But by stabbing the holy cow which is Star Wars, you must have expected it...




Yes, but I must admit it still caught me off guard....


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## King_Stannis (Mar 11, 2002)

Come, now, Wolff…give yourself to the Dark-Flamewar-Side. It’s the only way you can protect your fellow “Clone Bashers”….YES!…your posts betray you. Your feelings for them are strong…especially for…Rindillar! So, you have twin “Clone Basher”! If you cannot be turned toward the flamewar path than perhaps he CAN!….


(waiting with anticipation for the next image. Props, by the way, for posting those!)


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## Gargoyle (Mar 11, 2002)

The direction of this thread reminds me to wonder if Space Balls 2 "The search for more money..."  will come out someday to make fun of the new movies.  

In a lightsaber fight, Mel Brooks would kick George Lucas' butt.


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## Wild Karrde (Mar 11, 2002)

nemmerle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Isn't this putting the cart before the horse?
> 
> I mean, how can we tell if we like it unless we see it? *




Good point.  Although if you read my post you'll see I was showing the silliness of an opening week boycott.  I'll definately see it opening day at the midnight showing.  I'll also see all of you anti-EPII people there as well


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## Ciaran (Mar 11, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *The Anakin actor seems a bit wooden from what I've seen so far, and Lucas' strength has never been in the script.  But I likes me some eye candy! *



What, eye candy like Hayden Christensen?  I didn't think he was your type...  but I must say you have good taste.  

- Eric


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## Decado (Mar 12, 2002)

Something I left out of my post. I liked the trailer so much and it got me so in the mood to try the D20 SWRPG, that I am right now fighting the urge to spend my tax return on the books. I think I will spend some of the money on Jedi Starfighter for PS2 that is due out tomorrow. I hope it releases on time!

Decado


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## Pielorinho (Mar 12, 2002)

There's a scene that I heard about in the movie -- can anyone confirm it for me?

It's a flashback to the first cloning experiment.  I forget the name of the planet, or even of the scientist, who makes the clone.  But anyway, it comes out all wrong.

You get a few shots of the clone's terrible, pustulent face as it moans and waves rubbery flapping arms at the scientist.  The scientist tries to have a discussion with his creation, but it can't talk, can only make horrible bubbling gurgles.  In the last shot in the flashback, you see the scientist take the clone up to the roof of his laboratory and push it off, destroying it.  That's when the Imperial troops show up and arrest him.  For making an obscene clone fall.

Daniel


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## SonOfLilith (Mar 12, 2002)

I moved from *Ywan* to *Yeah!* when they showed the Star Destroyers taking off, followed by fight scenes involving Headhunter space craft. now THERE'S the Star Wars I know.


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## Atticus_of_Amber (Mar 12, 2002)

*Don't do this to me again, George*

When I first saw the trailer for Episode I: The Disappearing Plot, I loved it, it set shivers down my spine. Then I saw the movie.

This latest trailer has also sent shivers down my spine.

Please don't do this to me again, George.

But, I may relent from my intended boycott and see the thing at teh cinema. But not until well after opending night.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 12, 2002)

> Something I left out of my post. I liked the trailer so much and it got me so in the mood to try the D20 SWRPG, that I am right now fighting the urge to spend my tax return on the books. I think I will spend some of the money on Jedi Starfighter for PS2 that is due out tomorrow. I hope it releases on time!




Well, if you're going to buy the D20 Star Wars RPG, make sure it's the revised one they will be releasing relatively soon.  I know I'm going to be buying it....


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## Wippit Guud (Mar 12, 2002)

Flame? We don't use flame anymore...






"You have paid the price for your lack of vision."

How come no one's flaming Star Trek X? I don't wanna see Wesley again...


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## Axiomatic Unicorn (Mar 12, 2002)

I am among the disappointed with episode 1 crowd.

It had some great action scenes that I really loved.
But they were trapped in a movie of very marginal plot.
As cool as the action was, I don't think the movie would have had a chance of creating the sensation that is Star Wars if it had been the first one out.

I was also very disappointed that it was not at all true to the feeling of the other 3 movies.
In Episodes 4-6 you have the great struggle between good and evil, where things go badly and people die to serve the cause.  Even the cute little ewoks get killed.
Epoisode 1 was all kid gloves and simplicity.  An army of robots, just so the heros can destroy them without killing anyone.  

Instead of a heroic battle, you get Jar-Jar destroying a bunch of robots through a stupid slapstick routine.

Very rarely do you see anyone dying (major plot deaths aside).  It takes the sense of heroism and sacrifice out of it.

Same with the major space battle.  Won by great determination and sacrifice?  Nope.  Won by sheer stupidity.  Destroying the first Death Star was this great acheivement and Luke's coming of age in learning to trust the force.  Anakin goes for a ride and wipes out the enemy as a tourist.

In ep 4-6 the force was this great power in the universe, but you still had to pull your own weight.  Obi Wan was usually calm, but never cocky.  In ep 1 the big (stupid) fish monster grabs them and the jedi don't even flich, they just assume that they will be saved by some larger force.  BLEHHHH

Anakin jumping out of the car 100 stories up in the Ep 2 trailer looks like the same crap.  

And I felt the whole scientific basis for the Force is a big Lucas apology to the Hollywood crowd for having a positive portrayal of religion in the first movies.  And it is not that I am religious, it is just that external crap like that should not change the fundamental concepts of the setting.  It is inconsistent and irritating without advancing the plot at all.

The R2-D2 origin story was really cool.  The C-3PO story was stupid.  

And no matter how cute they make him, I am not going to feel sorry for space-hitler, or feel there were extenuating circumstances leading to the destruction of Alderan.

Will I go see ep2?  Hell Yes.
Am I looking forward to it?  Yes.  3 out of 4 earns an instant a free look at 5.
Am I exicited?  Not really.  It might be great and I am sure that the action will be very good.  But I think the odds are good that the fundamentals I so enjoyed in the first 3 will get shredded some more.


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## Some guy from Ohio (Mar 12, 2002)

Wolfspider,
    I have been following this thread with some amusment and I certainly believe you are entitled to your opinion, but one thing has been bothering me.


> I wanted to like it. But I didn't.



    For some time now, I have been collecting negative opinions on EPII to see how they would match after the movie came out.  You have been rather vocal on what you think and I applaud that, but I don't believe you wanted to like the trailer or the movie. 


> I'll just have to boycott the film entirely then. Oh, I imagine I'll end up seeing it eventually, over at a friend's house or on TV. But no Episode II for me! I feel almost...liberated. 02-04-2002 02:55 PM



    Now it sounds like you had made up your mind as far back as Feb 2 and no trailer could ever live up to any expectations you had.  For someone with "no Episode II for me", you sure seem to rail against it in a lot of post. 
    My post count in this thread: 5, I think.


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## Fenros (Mar 12, 2002)

First of all, let me re-establish my alignment on this whole thing. 

-I'm Anti-Episode I.
-I'm not Anti-Episode II or its Trailer. I am neutral on the movie.
-I like the latest trailer.

King Stannis wrote: 







> Today’s society has produced some really self-important and somewhat delusional people. If you’ve got it in your head that this movie will suck, then DON’T GO! In my opinion, it’s your loss. But I’d still have much more respect for you than these one week feel-gooders. Besides, I’ll let you in on a little secret. A movie’s real strength COMES from its staying power. “Titanic” did some of its best business four week from its release. That’s when I ended up seeing it. Guess my own unsuspecting “four week” boycott didn’t work, did it.




I think many people, such as yourself, are misunderstanding the 'first week' boycott.

Let me try and break it down for you big guy.

--People aren't boycotting the first week of EpII because they think it will suck or because they hate it. 

--People are boycotting the first week because they hate EpI. The statement of the boycott isn't primarily meant to 'hurt' the overall ticket sale run of EpII. We know it will make big bucks regardless. Like you said, we're insignificant. Its meant to hurt the first opening weekend sales report (in any little way we can)that runs in newspapers, magazines, and tv shows (like Access Hollywood, ET, E! News Daily). That first weekend sales report gets the MOST attention from those that are trying to figure out how well the movie is being received. Fans are hoping that Lucas will see a dramatic drop in numbers from opening weekend Ep1 to opening weekend Ep2. 

That ....by itself....alone.....tells Lucas that we didn't like his previous film (Ep1).  Well, actually...I'm sure he knows already....but we know he probably doesn't care. Poor weekend opening for Ep2 may make him flinch enough to START caring huh? 

Yes, after the entire theatre run for Ep2 is over, it may indeed come out grossing high like Ep1 anyways. But you know what? That first week, Lucas got the hint didn't he? And if Ep2 does do strong overall numbers during its entire run, then hopefully it will be because it was a good movie and not because it was just another Star Wars movie people went blindly into. Which will tell Lucas, hey you did a bad job on the first one (opening weekend boycott says that), nice job on doing better the second time (the over all sales of the entire theatre run says that about Ep2). Does this make any sense to you yet? Its more about sending a message than it is about hurting Lucas' wallet. Because we know for sure we can't do that!

Also, a secondary effect from boycotting that first week (those who want to go beyond the mere message), is that if enough people hear reports from news sources that the first weekend had really low numbers in comparison to Ep1's opening weekend, then they may feel its because its a poor movie and not go see it. Say things to themselves like, "Hmm....maybe I'll just wait for video". 

--Another reason why 'first week boycotters' do what they do: it is to wait and hear what people have to say. In that second week, they'll hear reviews. If they hear positive things from people they trust, they'll know to end their boycott and go see the film. If they hear its as bad as Ep1, then they'll know to continue their boycott forever (or until someone loans them a VHS tape of DVD).

See the advantage there? By doing it that way, you'll not have blindly went in and gave Lucas more money for making another turd movie. If you hear its a turd from enough people, you'll know that he won't get your money this time. If you hear its actually well done and a fantastic movie, then you'll know its okay to end the boycott and spend  money on a ticket. 

....And you sent a message in protest to Ep1 at the same time.

So, again, I think you mislabeled the 'first week boycotters'. The real fools are the ones that hated Ep.1 and go opening day to Ep2. Or the ones that hate the Phantom Menace, hate the Ep.2 Trailers......want to boycott, but feel they can't make a difference, so they just shrug and go opening weekend anyways. Ugh!

To those that liked Ep1 and want to go see Ep2 opening week, I'm happy for you. As for me, I'm a first week boycotter  .


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## Wolfspider (Mar 12, 2002)

> For someone with "no Episode II for me", you sure seem to rail against it in a lot of post.  My post count in this thread: 5, I think.




What is it with people keeping tabs on the number of posts I make?  It's starting to creep me out. 

Actually, I don't think I've really "railed" against it in this thread.  I don't think I've gotten very emotional about it here.  I can't remember clearly what else I might have said elsewhere, but I really don't think I've "railed" about it anywhere else either.  Despite what it may seem like, thinking about Episode II really doesn't occupy a great deal of my time.  I'm not stationed by my computer day and night hooked up to a catheter just waiting to post a rebuttal somewhere, after all.   I think that you're first descriptor is more accurate -- I'm "rather vocal."



> "I'll just have to boycott the film entirely then. Oh, I imagine I'll end up seeing it eventually, over at a friend's house or on TV. But no Episode II for me! I feel almost...liberated. 02-04-2002 02:55 PM"
> 
> Now it sounds like you had made up your mind as far back as Feb 2 and no trailer could ever live up to any expectations you had. For someone with "no Episode II for me", you sure seem to rail against it in a lot of post.




Well, I can't remember what the circumstances were surrounding what I said in your quote, but I was obviously reacting to something somebody had said:  "I'll just have to boycott the film entirely THEN."  (Emphasis mine.)  Somebody must have made some observation that completely crushed my desire to see the movie.  I dunno.  As I said, I can't remember what was said.  Perhaps you can provide some clarification.

However, I can tell you that deciding not to see the film hasn't really liberated me at all.  After all, I'm still chained to this thread, aren't I? 

Like I said earlier, I WAS extremely excited about the new trailer being released.  I was like a man possessed as I frantically flipped through the channels to find Fox.  I called my girlfriend in and we snuggled on the couch waiting for it.  I was in the PERFECT frame of mind to like the trailer.  And I still didn't like it.

Make of that what you will.

OK.  What do you think about this plan?  (Not that you really should care, but here it is anyway.)

I won't go to see the film the opening weekend so I can find out exactly how people have reacted.  I'll read a lot of reviews and take a careful look through the dozen or so threads that pop up here at ENWorld.  I'll make up my mind based on what I find, and I will try to keep an open mind.

Any suggestions on not bringing excess baggage with me to the movie, if I decide to go?  To be honest, I really don't think I have a lot of excess baggage when it comes to Star Wars anyway.  I'm a fan of Star Wars, but I actually like Star Trek a lot more.  I don't think George Lucas "raped my childhood" or anything, to use an expression someone coined concerning the failures of Episode I.  I get disgusted as some of the things I read about Mr. Lucus, and I do think that he has lost his creative edge, but I think that about a lot of artists and writers.  In other words, I don't have near the amount of baggage concerning Star Wars: Ep II that I did concerning the Lord of the Rings movie, since I think Tolkien shaped my life substantiatlly.

Anyway, I'd better end this post before it really gets out of control.

One last thing:



> For some time now, I have been collecting negative opinions on EPII to see how they would match after the movie came out.




The presence of this collection worries me.  What possibly could you hope to do with it other than rub people's noses in it and make them feel bad and/or angry?  Just for the record, what are YOUR thoughts concerning the movie.  I'd like to have my own stab at you when the time comes....


----------



## Gargoyle (Mar 12, 2002)

Axiomatic Unicorn said:
			
		

> *
> Same with the major space battle.  Won by great determination and sacrifice?  Nope.  Won by sheer stupidity.  Destroying the first Death Star was this great acheivement and Luke's coming of age in learning to trust the force.  Anakin goes for a ride and wipes out the enemy as a tourist.
> 
> *




I read the novel shortly after the movie.  I really wish they had portrayed this scene in the movie like they did in the novel.  In the book, Anakin is using the force with much greater awareness of his feelings than Luke had in Episode IV, and it made sense and was very cool.  In the movie, I have to agree, it was portrayed as luck.

I normally don't read book adaptations of the movie, but in this case, I highly recommend it.   For many, it will be more enjoyable than the movie.


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## Jairami (Mar 12, 2002)

Having now watched Episode I.I - The Phantom Edit I must agree that it is greatly superior to Lucas's final cut.  While it may not be Oscar worthy still, it is at least a much more enjoyable movie with a lot of little Annie's abysmal lines and much of Jar Jar's unneccessary, transparent, out-of-context, annoying, aggrivating, insulting, utter stupidity cut out..

Makes for a slightly darker, less dumbed-down, and less redundant (American audiences are slow, let's repeat the same information 3 different ways 3 different times to make sure they grasp what's going on) movie.


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## Axiomatic Unicorn (Mar 12, 2002)

Gargoyle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I read the novel shortly after the movie.  I really wish they had portrayed this scene in the movie like they did in the novel.  In the book, Anakin is using the force with much greater awareness of his feelings than Luke had in Episode IV, and it made sense and was very cool.  In the movie, I have to agree, it was portrayed as luck.
> 
> I normally don't read book adaptations of the movie, but in this case, I highly recommend it.   For many, it will be more enjoyable than the movie. *




I will have to check into that.
But isn't the book a novelization of the movie?

So if the novel is better, it would only be because the author repaired the movie.

Anyway,  I not boycotting or anything.  At least not any more than I am any other movie that I plan to see "whenever I get around to it".


----------



## Some guy from Ohio (Mar 12, 2002)

Wolfspider,


> The presence of this collection worries me. What possibly could you hope to do with it other than rub people's noses in it and make them feel bad and/or angry?



    On reflection, you are absolutely correct and it is not a nice thing to do.  Please consider the document destroyed. I was stumbling across a lot of anti-EP II posts at the time and I suppose I did want something to perhaps hit back with later, because I felt people had made up their mind before even seeing the product.  Of course, this is their prerogative and I should have accepted that.  You have my apologies for being the first and only person I sprung this on.


> I'd like to have my own stab at you when the time comes....



    You certainly deserve too and I apologize for any bad feelings I may have created.  One of the things that separates these boards from others (the forcenet.com comes to mind), is the fact that you can have a different opinion without getting flamed with nothing but rants and profanities.  I commend you even though much of this thread was starting to look like Wolfspider attack at times.


> Just for the record, what are YOUR thoughts concerning the movie.



        I have to preface this with the knowledge that the original Star Wars (EP IV A New Hope) was almost a religious experience for me when I was ten years old and first saw it.
I am a huge fan of the original trilogy and I suppose that it helped shape me into the fantasy, sci-fi geek I am today.  
    I impatiently waited for 20 years on EP I and I was a bit disappointed for the various reasons others before me have sited. I also don't think George Lucas "raped my childhood" with the weak movie.  All of them have faults, but we have 20 years of growing up with them so they have become infallible in many peoples eyes.  My Star Wars experience seems to be much like your Tolkiens as far as shaping my life substantially.
    Now the EP II trailer.  The most grating thing for me was what appeared to be the stiff acting and cheesy dialogue, but I let this slide because the original trilogy is full of the same stuff.  There is not enough to accurately criticize any story elements beyond the great war and I have high hopes for that.  What I was left with was Jango Fett blasting away at Obi-wan, armies of clone troopers on a chaotic battlefield, early walkers and star destroyers, Anakin fighting with two lightsabres, and Mace Windu getting medieval.  What’s not to like?
    Now if I come back and say that the movie is no good, then please feel free to flame me, but no one will be more disappointed than me….                   


> Any suggestions on not bringing excess baggage with me to the movie, if I decide to go?



    All I can say is I hope you do go.  I would enjoy discussing the movie with you.  I am the one with too much Star Wars baggage, but when I do go and If I have fun, it is a good movie in my eyes.


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## Gargoyle (Mar 12, 2002)

Axiomatic Unicorn said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I will have to check into that.
> But isn't the book a novelization of the movie?
> ...




Yeah, the book's a novelization by Terry Brooks, I believe, who had access to the script before the movie was released.  (aka "a book adaptation of the movie", like I posted.) 

Does the book "repair" the movie?  In that one scene, yeah, and probably some others.  (There's the scene where Anakin meets Amidala for the first time, for instance -  much better in the book)   

But comparing different media types of the same story is tricky.  I think they enhance each other, more than one being better than the other.  You get more of what the characters are thinking from the book, and more of what things look like in the movie.  And the pacing is different.  For instance, the book starts earlier than the movie, with Anakin's second to last podrace.  This was something I'm glad wasn't in the movie, but was a good read.


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## Wolfspider (Mar 12, 2002)

Hey, no hard feelings at all. 

I look forward to (perhaps) talking about the film with you.  My girlfriend has sway over a lot of what I do, so I'll probably end up going the second week.  (But I am going to wait at least a week to let things calm down and let reactions to the movie bubble up to the top.)


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## Axiomatic Unicorn (Mar 12, 2002)

Gargoyle said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yeah, the book's a novelization by Terry Brooks, I believe, who had access to the script before the movie was released.  (aka "a book adaptation of the movie", like I posted.)
> 
> ...




Cool

I am sure I can find a cheap copy somewhere these days


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