# Dwarf weapons: Great axe or Maul?



## Sauce74 (Mar 15, 2003)

Why would a dwarf chose to use a maul when a great axe does more damage?  d10 x3 vs d12 x3

The Forgotten Realms Campaign book states that the maul is a weapon favored by dwarves.

Purely for role playing flavor?

Blunt weapon damage alone just is not enough justification to chose it over a great axe.

Am I missing something?


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## Pax (Mar 15, 2003)

I'd say, mostly RP flavor.

There is also the fact that a Maul is not disimilar form mining implements, meanign a Maul-proficient Dwarf who is attacked in the mines, while working, can use the very tool in his hands already as a fully-effective weapon, without having to carry around a battleaxe with him all the time, nor take time droppin the mining tool and readying his axe.

And living underground, I daresay dwarves might be more, not less, inclined to run into things where the bludgeoning damage is more of a benefit than you might think.


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## molonel (Mar 15, 2003)

*Why not use it?*

Why not use it?  Average damage isn't that much different:  1d10 versus 1d12, exact same crit range (20/x3).  I have a Dwarven fighter/cleric/contemplative who wields a maul, and he does just fine.


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## Eldorian (Mar 15, 2003)

Maul does a d10?  Thats wierd, why not just use a great club?  It's already in the PHB.  In my game, I ruled mauls to be d12s, since warhammers and axes have the same damage/crit range, the large version of both followed a similiar patern.  Ah well.


Eldorian Antar


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## reichtfeld (Mar 15, 2003)

DR/blunt


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## Destil (Mar 15, 2003)

The FRCS maul is useless. The half spear is a simple weapon that has the same stats, for instance (in my game I allow a sledge hammer as a bludegoning equivelent of the spear that can't be thrown).

The damage should be 1d12 or 2d6.


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## Kae'Yoss (Mar 15, 2003)

The answer is simple: Because they like it. Characters in RPG's are only seldomly powergamers, that's only found with Players. Ther are also people who fight only with a longsword - no two-handed weapon, no second weapon, no shield. It's a matter of preference and style.


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## Wormwood (Mar 15, 2003)

Wormwood's House Rules archive:



> *Battlehammer*
> Medium Exotic* Weapon, 1d10/x3, Bludgeoning
> *without EWP, may wield as 2-handed Martial weapon.
> *
> ...



ps. while we're at it, move Greatclub to Simple Weapon.


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## Andion Isurand (Mar 16, 2003)

*Try changing the maul.....*

I have thumbed through the Arms and Equipment Guide (bought Races of Faerûn instead for setting information).......

Since the Maul is a bludgeoning weapon that steps on the Great Club's toes.......

You could make the maul work like the fulllblade...
( 2d8, large-sized version of the bastard sword )...

.........except that you need exotic profiency feat (if you are medium size) to even weild it in two hands at all.

That way you can create the bludegoning version of the Fullblade.


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## Hypersmurf (Mar 16, 2003)

*Re: Try changing the maul.....*



> *You could make the maul work like the fulllblade...
> ( 2d8, large-sized version of the bastard sword )...
> 
> .........except that you need exotic profiency feat (if you are medium size) to even weild it in two hands at all.*




Check the Sword and Fist Errata.  Fullblade is now a Huge weapon that can be wielded in two hands by a Large creature, or one-handed by a Large creature with an EWP.  It cannot be used at all by a Medium character.

-Hyp.


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## Andion Isurand (Mar 16, 2003)

I took "that" fullblade from the Arms & Equipment Guide.


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## Hypersmurf (Mar 16, 2003)

> *I took "that" fullblade from the Arms & Equipment Guide. *




... so they've basically reversed the errata?

Weird.

-Hyp.


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## Gumby (Mar 16, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> ... so they've basically reversed the errata?
> 
> ...



Yep, but due to their reverse-engineering of the Weapon Size Increase charts, a 2d8 Huge weapon now works correctly as a Large Bastard Sword, rather than just the larger version of a Greatsword it was before.  So everything's consistent now - the Fullblade can be wielded two-handed by a Medium-sized creature, just as a Bastard Sword can be wielded two-handed by a Small creature.


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## Andion Isurand (Mar 16, 2003)

It reminds me of the Biggirron ( <--spelling?? ) Sword from Zelda 64.


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## Eldorian (Mar 16, 2003)

Do you think they'll add the revised weapon size damage increases to the SRD?  I'd like to know =)  As is, i'll probably leaf through the Arms and eq guide just for those rules and anything else I find interesting enough to memorize before I leave the game store.  

Eldorian Antar


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## Destil (Mar 16, 2003)

Eldorian said:
			
		

> *Do you think they'll add the revised weapon size damage increases to the SRD?
> Eldorian Antar *



I believe there's a good chance of it being part of 3.5 from what we've seen so far, so yes.


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## Ferret (Mar 16, 2003)

Oh and who heard of a dwartf usoing the war version of a tree cutting thing?


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## magnas_veritas (Mar 17, 2003)

Ferret said:
			
		

> *Oh and who heard of a dwartf usoing the war version of a tree cutting thing? *




A Dwarven Waraxe?  Well, it's a *Dwarven* Waraxe, which I suppose differentiates it from a Human or Gnomish Waraxe...

Okay, you got me.  I haven't seen anybody in our game use it.  I suppose it's okay if one's a fighter and has feats sort of to spare, but not otherwise.

Honestly, I'd just buy me a Large Warhammer (take that, Maul!) and two-hand that, maybe with an animated shield.

Brad


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## Hypersmurf (Mar 17, 2003)

> *Oh and who heard of a dwarf using the war version of a tree cutting thing? *




That's kind of silly.  A dwarven miner might gravitate to a pick or a hammer, but the axe is the iconic weapon of the dwarven fighter or warrior.

It's like asking "Swords?  Why do humans use swords?  They should use scythes and bill-hooks and other converted farm implements!"

-Hyp.


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## clark411 (Mar 17, 2003)

I think Salvatore addressed this kind of issue in one of the Icewind Dale books.  Dwarves use a Hammer and Axe technique when fighting most tall creatures- the axe is ideal for attacking the tendons at the back of the leg / knee / foot, while the hammer or maul is used to break the kneecap / shin.  Depending on the angle of attack, one weapon may be far less effective than the other.

If you have a dual wielding dwarf with a hatchet in one hand and a warhammer in the other, he can pass an opponent with devastating effect- but not so much in a mechanical sense (not to say this is a bad thing, the idea of bludgeon weapons being more effective vs the "Front" of a giant and slashing vs the "Rear" of one brings up a whole bunch of new rule sets I'd rather do without than bear for flavor).


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## Darklone (Mar 17, 2003)

Actually I would have liked more monsters with a "natural" DR5/blunt or slashing or piercing or so like the skeleton... I mean, blunt weapons against zombies should be mainly useless. You break his arm, he uses it as flail...


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## Datt (Mar 17, 2003)

It's simple.  The hammer is the chosen weapon of the All Father, Moradin.
As far as dwarves, not using the dwarven waraxe, expect that to change come 3.5e and Weapon Familiarity.

Of course as a follower of Clagendinn I use dual battle axes.


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## MadScientist (Mar 17, 2003)

IMC we don't have use the FRCS or the Equipment guide.  When my dwarf wanted a Maul as a secondary weapon (I usually use a guisarme) we upsized the warhammer to large.

This gives you 2d6 20/X3.  The d10 seems pretty weird to me.  I would expect a d12 or a 2d6.  I mean isn't a greatclub free?  A maul should have better stats than a greatclub.


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## Darklone (Mar 18, 2003)

Datt said:
			
		

> *Of course as a follower of Clagendinn I use dual battle axes. *




Why use battle axes if you can have dual wielded dwarven waraxes? I know, the EWP feat is puny, but if you use two of them... it becomes worth it  

And it looks better. A lot. 

"My axes are larger than your axes!"
- "Bah, my beard is longer, I have more scars and don't play elf with that silly composite longbow!!"
"Spoilsport!"


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## Pax (Mar 18, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That's kind of silly.  A dwarven miner might gravitate to a pick or a hammer, but the axe is the iconic weapon of the dwarven fighter or warrior.
> 
> ...




Actually, they DO.  A lot of polearms are actually adapted farming implements.  Military Fork?  Trident, beefed up for war.  Glaive-Guisarme?  Seriously, it's a tree-pruning tool, again beefed up for war.


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## Hypersmurf (Mar 18, 2003)

> *Actually, they DO.*




Of course they do... but nobody expects the bill-guisarme to be the iconic weapon of the adventuring human Fighter or Paladin.

Mercenary companies, standing armies, peasant militia, fine... but statistically speaking, the Paladin carries a longsword.

And while dwarven peasants might naturally grab picks and hammers, the adventuring Fighter carries an axe.

That's not to say there's no room in the game for a Paladin with a flail.  It's just not the stereotype.  Likewise, the axe is the dwarvish longsword.

-Hyp.


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## Darklone (Mar 18, 2003)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> *That's not to say there's no room in the game for a Paladin with a flail.  It's just not the stereotype.  Likewise, the axe is the dwarvish longsword.
> 
> -Hyp. *




I always liked human fighters with e.g. axe and shield in my groups... it had such a unfamiliar feeling in fantasy settings  ("Hey, you're not a dwarf!")

Too bad D&D combat does not support the superiority of axes in close quarter combat like the good old tunnel fighting dwarves...


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## Datt (Mar 18, 2003)

Darklone said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Why use battle axes if you can have dual wielded dwarven waraxes? I know, the EWP feat is puny, but if you use two of them... it becomes worth it
> *




I have thought about that, but decided against it.  I try to be as much like Clangedinn as possible.  He uses dual battle axes and not dwarven waraxes so I use battle axes.  He kills giants whenever possible so I kill giants whenver possible.


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