# Arrow TV Show



## Crothian (Oct 11, 2012)

Last night was the debut of Arrow, the new Super Hero TV show about the Green Arrow.  He was never my favorite character and actually until some of the versions we've gotten on cartoons like the Brave and the Bold I really felt he was a waste of a character.  

The pilot turned out to be pretty good.  It established a lot of the history quickly and had good pacing.  I think the actors did a fine job and was impressed with the amount of Green Arrow references they fit in there without hitting the viewer over the head with it.  Okay, the near constant Speedy nickname was a little much but otherwise not to shabby.

It wasn't perfect by any means.  I doubt a kid on an island for five years could have built a computer hacking arrow so quickly and it was too obvious in the wall glowing to not have been located by the criminals.  It was a better pilot then Smallville.


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## Dog Moon (Oct 12, 2012)

Crothian said:


> It wasn't perfect by any means.  I doubt a kid on an island for five years could have built a computer hacking arrow so quickly and it was too obvious in the wall glowing to not have been located by the criminals.  It was a better pilot then Smallville.




Yeah, that was a little obvious, but did they really specify how much time had gone between him building his lair and him attacking the guy?  I mean they went through a montage of him knocking stuff down, getting supplies, hooking it all up and training.  They didn't make it seem very long, but doing all that should have taken at least a couple of weeks if he's doing that all by himself, right?  He probably could have spent part of that time making arrows  like the computer hacking arrow.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 12, 2012)

Much better than I expected. I watched all of Smallville, despite cringing through huge swaths of it, and though I kind of liked their depiction of Oliver Queen, this one is already much more interesting.

Actually killing people with his arrows and hands made ia big difference, to me.


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## Hand of Evil (Oct 12, 2012)

enjoyed it.


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## Morrus (Oct 12, 2012)

If you're American and you missed this, you can watch it online here:

Arrow Video - Pilot | Watch Online Free


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 12, 2012)

The ads are #$%ing Awful! And there's no way to skip them. I can't even find a way to turn down the volume.


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2012)

sabrinathecat said:


> The ads are #$%ing Awful! And there's no way to skip them. I can't even find a way to turn down the volume.




The ads are made not to be skipped.  As for volume just use the control on your computer.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 13, 2012)

No, ads are the reason I don't buy cable-bundle-packages that my ISP provides.
Hopefully this will end up on Netflix's instant streaming, but DVD will do fine.

Funny story about cable: Thanks to a technical error, I had free cable for 6 months. When someone asked by to record something, I found out that it had been disconnected 2 months earlier. Well, if I haven't noticed for 2 months, I don't need it.

But enough of that. Pilot looks decent. Hope it goes somewhere. If I remember correctly, Green Arrow was originally Action Comics' version of Batman, until DC bought AC and put the two in the same universe. Hope they do include the larger JLU universe--if only in asides. Speedy is a girl? OK, that can work. Merlin? hmmm... Well, we'll see.


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## Crothian (Oct 13, 2012)

sabrinathecat said:


> Speedy is a girl? OK, that can work. Merlin? hmmm... Well, we'll see.




Speedy was a girl and a boy.  There are two Speedy's in Green Arrow Comics.  Both were his sidekick at one time.  What's wrong with Merlyn?  He's a been part of Green Arrow comics for some 40 years now.  There was a lot in the episode that referenced characters from the Green Arrow comics so I was impressed that they went to that kind of detail considering how long it took to get anything from the comics in Smallville.


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## thewok (Oct 13, 2012)

I find it funny that this Speedy apparently also has a drug problem.  Will he start calling her "Arsenal" later?


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## MarkB (Oct 13, 2012)

Fast Learner said:


> Actually killing people with his arrows and hands made ia big difference, to me.




To me too. It came close to killing my interest in the show.

I find it hard to sympathise with a protagonist who leaves that large a trail of bodies.


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## Hal G (Oct 14, 2012)

Just watched it, thought it was better than most of this seasons premieres.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 15, 2012)

MarkB said:


> To me too. It came close to killing my interest in the show.
> 
> I find it hard to sympathise with a protagonist who leaves that large a trail of bodies.



Really? To me, that would be essential.
_____ just tried to KILL me. Do I incapacitate him, kill him first, or pat him on the back for trying, but not being quite in the right league? Granted, Incapacitating is more acceptable (both to personal goals and not bringing down an even more massive police man-hunt), but if it is a question of him or me, It will be I who survive.


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## MarkB (Oct 15, 2012)

sabrinathecat said:


> Really? To me, that would be essential.
> _____ just tried to KILL me. Do I incapacitate him, kill him first, or pat him on the back for trying, but not being quite in the right league?




A lot of the people he killed in the first episode hadn't tried to kill him, or even met him before he perforated them.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 15, 2012)

They were either firing guns or preparing to fire guns. Even in a comic-book world, that is generally considered trying to kill someone.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 15, 2012)

I appreciate it for the way it's different from Smallville, where there was a constant sense of fakeness due to how infrequently anyone ever died.

I'm not someone who particularly likes killing in his entertainment, just someone who dislikes constant, utterly unrealistic temporary knock-outs where no one ever gets hurt.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 15, 2012)

Fast Learner said:


> I appreciate it for the way it's different from Smallville, where there was a constant sense of fakeness due to how infrequently anyone ever died.
> 
> I'm not someone who particularly likes killing in his entertainment, just someone who dislikes constant, utterly unrealistic temporary knock-outs where no one ever gets hurt.




Exactly. It was like the 80s GIJoe cartoon, where every plane or helicopter shot down had to have parachutes, so we would know that no one died, or they all had lasers set on stun, because terrorists in cartoons can't kill. One of the big weaknesses of a lot of the Batman movies is that he wasn't killing henchmen, and only killing the big villains by bizarre accidents.

So let the Green Arrow shoot people. An Arrow is a lot less likely to be fatal than a bullet. Unless it is an explosive, corrosive, or electro-shock arrow... Plus they probably go through bullet-proof vests.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Oct 15, 2012)

MarkB said:


> A lot of the people he killed in the first episode hadn't tried to kill him, or even met him before he perforated them.




I think you missed something. He killed the guys who abducted him. The BBG that he stole the money from specifically said he put his guys in the hospital.


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## Prickly (Oct 15, 2012)

I enjoyed it. 

Some of the dialogue and acting was a bit off, but I enjoyed the style of the show.



sabrinathecat said:


> An Arrow is a lot less likely to be fatal than a bullet. Unless it is an explosive, corrosive, or electro-shock arrow... Plus they probably go through bullet-proof vests.



An Arrow is as fatal as a bullet. There aren't degrees of fatal.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 15, 2012)

There are certainly degrees of likelihood of a wound being fatal. Arrows have _far_ less energy behind them than bullets. Makes a tremendous difference in likelihood of lethality.


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## GMforPowergamers (Oct 15, 2012)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I think you missed something. He killed the guys who abducted him. The BBG that he stole the money from specifically said he put his guys in the hospital.




Is there anyone he killed who was not a threat?


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## MarkB (Oct 15, 2012)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I think you missed something. He killed the guys who abducted him. The BBG that he stole the money from specifically said he put his guys in the hospital.




Okay, I did miss that line. They certainly didn't look just hospitalised - one took an arrow mid-torso and went down with barely a grunt, the other took two hits offscreen and we don't get a good look at where he was hit, but again, he's not struggling in pain, he's just down and still. It certainly looked like they were both killed.

And yes, he killed the later goons in combat, but it was a combat he started, knowing the likely costs involved. Breaking into someone's office by carving through their bodyguards in order to rob them is not self-defence.


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## rkwoodard (Oct 16, 2012)

*kind of with spoilers*



Crothian said:


> It wasn't perfect by any means.  I doubt a kid on an island for five years could have built a computer hacking arrow so quickly and it was too obvious in the wall glowing to not have been located by the criminals.  It was a better pilot then Smallville.





I really liked it.  I have seen this in a couple of places, but really it points to something bigger.  Not only can he do that, but on the island he:

Learned Archery.  You would not learn archery on a deserted island, at least not enough to be the class he is.

Hand to hand combat.  He is not some raging beast, but is good enough to take out highly trained security people.

Pick-pockets.  He was able to snag his sisters drugs without her knowing.


This is also the day and age of the TV slow reveal.  

We will learn through flashbacks that it was not a deserted island.

My guess.  They are going to work in the League of Shadows on the Island.  I am probably wrong on the League, but he learned all these things from someone/group on the Island.

RK


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## Crothian (Oct 16, 2012)

rkwoodard said:


> I really liked it.  I have seen this in a couple of places, but really it points to something bigger.  Not only can he do that, but on the island he:




We don't know what he learned on the island and what he knew before hand.  Now they are going to do island flashbacks every episode so there is going to be a lot revealed, but until then I can only go by what they show us.  It could be he learned it, it could be bad writing.  It can turn out to be a combination of both.


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## Azgulor (Oct 16, 2012)

I thought that the show was very cool.

For me, it hit the right marks.  Good blend of "now" and "origin".  Seems it will be taking the flashback route to reveal the origin over time which I greatly prefer to a rushed "got to get this out of the way" style origin that you often see in movies.

Like Smallville's approach to Superman, it appears that it will diverge from Green Arrow canon where it wants to while providing nods to the lore.  Speedy is now a nickname for his sister. Will she eventually go the route of sidekick?  Merlyn is the name of Ollie's best friend.  Will he evolve into the Green Arrow nemesis of the same name?

The Deathstroke mask on the beach was very, very cool.  It was almost a visceral reaction for me, all from seeing a freakin' cloth mask...

Honestly, while I've always liked Green Arrow, he never made it into my top-tier of heroes.  I'm totally fine with them not hewing directly to the pre-New52 canon.

But then, I really enjoy the New52 version of Green Arrow.  A more accessible Olliver without the goofy goatee & in-your-face liberalism.

The thing I'm wondering about the most, however, is how much the "super" aspect will be in the show.  Will we ever see a Black Canary with Canary Cry or will we keep the more "realistic" street-level tone...

On my watch list.


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## sabrinathecat (Oct 16, 2012)

Bad things happen when you work for Bad People. Look at the civilian contractors on the Deathstar II.


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## rkwoodard (Oct 16, 2012)

Crothian said:


> We don't know what he learned on the island and what he knew before hand.  Now they are going to do island flashbacks every episode so there is going to be a lot revealed, but until then I can only go by what they show us.  It could be he learned it, it could be bad writing.  It can turn out to be a combination of both.




I can't disagree with that.  I do tend to give TV writers a lot of wiggle room, and usually end up disappointed.  But, as of what we know right now, he should not be in the shape he is in, with the skills he has. 

So, for now I guess it is tune in next week at the same Arrow Time on the same Arrow Channel.

RK


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## GMforPowergamers (Oct 20, 2012)

rkwoodard said:


> I can't disagree with that.  I do tend to give TV writers a lot of wiggle room, and usually end up disappointed.  But, as of what we know right now, he should not be in the shape he is in, with the skills he has.
> 
> So, for now I guess it is tune in next week at the same Arrow Time on the same Arrow Channel.
> 
> RK




Well at the end of this weeks show is a flash back to day 1 on the island, where oliver queen is shot by an archer in a green hood... so there is someone training him.

I was much more impressed with the back and forth with the body guard.


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## Crothian (Oct 20, 2012)

I'm impressed the body guard fought China White and kind of held his own.  

I imagine the other guy on the island will train him, but right now all we know is shot him.


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## Prickly (Oct 22, 2012)

Episode 2 was pretty good I thought.


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## Scott DeWar (Oct 22, 2012)

I liked it. As a survivor of a ruptured intestine almost a year ago, a gut shot by bullet, knife or arrow will likely end in death but not always. That person will be down for the count for at least 2 years, likely longer.

A shot in the bicep to a local police officer could have been fatal if the bracial [sp?] artery had been hit. It took a couple of years for him to be back at 100%.

over all, the pilot was enjoyable-lots of mystery to go, personal demons to concur, and his little sister to watch over.


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## Felon (Oct 23, 2012)

rkwoodard said:


> I can't disagree with that.  I do tend to give TV writers a lot of wiggle room, and usually end up disappointed.  But, as of what we know right now, he should not be in the shape he is in, with the skills he has.
> 
> So, for now I guess it is tune in next week at the same Arrow Time on the same Arrow Channel.
> 
> RK



I wouldn't be surprised to find that Oliver was part of a "most dangerous game" type of scenario. Wasn't Deathstroke's mask on that island? He's suppsoed to become a chief anatagonist. I could see Slade Wilson using an island as a human game preserve.

As for the show on the whole, I was hoping for something more substantive. In the pilot, when he grabs the apple off the table, I got this idea that being trapped on a desert island would be a good heroic motivation, because he'd empathize with folks trying to survive on the streets. But right now it just looks like it's a superhero show for the 90210 crowd. On the surface, the show has dark overtones, but in reality the world we're presented so far is full of young, rich, attractive people. So far there are no dirty junkies or homeless people needing help in Starling City.


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## Scott DeWar (Oct 23, 2012)

Felon said:


> I wouldn't be surprised to find that Oliver was part of a "most dangerous game" type of scenario. Wasn't Deathstroke's mask on that island? He's suppsoed to become a chief anatagonist. I could see Slade Wilson using an island as a human game preserve.
> 
> As for the show on the whole, I was hoping for something more substantive. In the pilot, when he grabs the apple off the table, I got this idea that being trapped on a desert island would be a good heroic motivation, because he'd empathize with folks trying to survive on the streets. But right now it just looks like it's a superhero show for the 90210 crowd. On the surface, the show has dark overtones, but in reality the world we're presented so far is full of young, rich, attractive people. So far there are no dirty junkies or homeless people needing help in Starling City.



I kinda have to agree with this post in full. I got that same '90210' feeling and was wondering hoe 'o' got his fighting training from.


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## RyanSmith (Jan 8, 2013)

I have watched 3 episodes of arrow tv show and i like this show. This is the best show of 2012. This is the best show based on Green Arrow.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 8, 2013)

thewok said:


> I find it funny that this Speedy apparently also has a drug problem.  Will he start calling her "Arsenal" later?




As I recall, the Speedy of the early 1980s had a heroin habit.


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## Crothian (Jan 8, 2013)

RyanSmith said:


> I have watched 3 episodes of arrow tv show and i like this show. This is the best show of 2012. This is the best show based on Green Arrow.




Not a lot of competition there.


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## Felon (Jan 15, 2013)

View attachment 56009


Dannyalcatraz said:


> As I recall, the Speedy of the early 1980s had a heroin habit.




Farther back than that, actually. It was one of comics' first clumsy attempts at "relevant" storytelling.




If there's some way to post the image directly rather than just a link to it, I haven't figured it out yet.


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 1, 2013)

Netflix put season 1 up on instant view. Finished it the other night. (The fact that I finished anything speaks volumes). They managed to perfectly balance soap-opera drama with a good comic-book action series. The result was a very good, well-paces, well-plotted show, that managed to set itself up to a great season ending without answering absolutely every question. They had just enough teasing and fan-bating to satisfy the comic fans without being an over-the-top geek fest. I only hope they can keep up this level of quality.
I'm just worried they'll be like "Once Upon A Time", by having a great first season and a crap second season.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Nov 1, 2013)

Felon said:


> View attachment 56009
> 
> Farther back than that, actually. It was one of comics' first clumsy attempts at "relevant" storytelling.
> 
> ...




That's the one I was thinking of- is it actually from the 1970s?


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## Lindeloef (Nov 1, 2013)

[MENTION=89838]sabrinathecat[/MENTION]
as of now, (4 episodes in) they continue where they left of in terms of quality. At least for me, it is as good as the first season (of course they still could ruin it in the rest of the season ^^).


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## Jhaelen (Nov 1, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> They managed to perfectly balance soap-opera drama with a good comic-book action series. The result was a very good, well-paces, well-plotted show, that managed to set itself up to a great season ending without answering absolutely every question.



How refreshing to see you praise a TV show for a change. How unfortunate, though, that you picked one which is pretty much mediocre in every regard: Episodes are repetitive, I cannot bring myself to care about the 'problems' of a bunch of billionaires, the 'island flashbacks' are too short and far between to compel me to continue watching, and there's not really much of 'comic-book' action, either.


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## Morrus (Nov 1, 2013)

I find the island flashbacks incredibly tedious. My brain switches off when they come on.

The rest of it's OK.  The action choreography is above par.  My main disappointment is that they took the "no superpowers" route; and making him so grim highlights how he's basically just a Batman-lite (in this show).  Still, the Flash is coming in this year, and apparently *will* have superpowers.


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## Crothian (Nov 1, 2013)

This season has been a lot better. I like the characters have changed and reacted to events of the show. Usually big events happen but the core characters remain the same.


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 1, 2013)

Uh, Green Arrow _IS_ bat-man like. He has no super powers. There was even a comic with Green Arrow and Batman, where Batman is looking at the Arrow Copter, the Arrow Cave, and a couple other things, and says "Didn't you ever have an original idea?"
Yes, the island flashbacks can be a bit much--it might have been interesting to condense that story a bit.
It isn't just "A bunch of billionaires." Why care? because their lives affect the lives of everyone around them. There's a fair bit of what happens to the "ordinary" people.
And if there was something better on, please let me know. I'd be interested. Most people try to tell me "Walking Dead" or "Breaking Bad", both of which I found unwatchable with characters I didn't care about. Or worse, "Game Of Thrones" and other such series which insist on wallowing through the sewage side of humanity.

The Arrow has an intricate plot, episodic stories, and an overall arc, nearly of the quality of Babylon 5. The characters aren't just a bunch of whiney emo twits: they see their situation and DO SOMETHING about it. Even the most annoying and slow-to-action DO SOMETHING.


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## Herschel (Nov 1, 2013)

The whole Laurel flip-flop thing annoyed me, and Sara as Black Canary took a bit of the suspension of disbelief bank balance but otherwise I like it still. I'm not a big comic book guy so I'm not married to a lot of the supposed "canon" stuff.

I actually like the flashbacks a lot. Summer Glau as a corporate raider? Yeah, not really buying it but she's still Summer Glau so screen time commence.


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## Crothian (Nov 1, 2013)

Herschel said:


> The whole Laurel flip-flop thing annoyed me




To me it was her just coping with the death. Her hatred of the Vigilante was just the first stage of that Anger and she needed someone to blame. Now she is coping it a different and more self destructive way.


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## Jhaelen (Nov 4, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> And if there was something better on, please let me know. I'd be interested. Most people try to tell me "Walking Dead" or "Breaking Bad", both of which I found unwatchable with characters I didn't care about.



Well, if you think that 'Breaking Bad' is unwatchable, then your taste is obviously so utterly different from mine that it would be impossible for me to suggest anything that you might find 'watchable'. 'Walking Dead' may have its faults, but 'breaking Bad' is absolutely brilliant.


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 5, 2013)

Watch the first episode of Breaking Bad. Imagine you have no idea what is coming up. Can you make it through the first 20 minutes? Do you care what happens to the characters as presented in that 20 minutes? Is the pacing at all interesting? Is anything in that first 20 minutes interesting? Watch it again.

Yeah, the Laurel will she/won't she on/off thing did get old. On the other hand, look at Lana and Clark during Smallville. I'm guessing they dragged that out for 10 years. I only just started watching season 4, but it seems like the characters are all in stasis lock in order to keep the show running without ever making any changes. No wonder the fans I've talked to were so excited when Green Arrow showed up in that and started yelling at Clark to get off his butt and start doing something.


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## Jhaelen (Nov 5, 2013)

sabrinathecat said:


> Watch the first episode of Breaking Bad. Imagine you have no idea what is coming up. Can you make it through the first 20 minutes? Do you care what happens to the characters as presented in that 20 minutes? Is the pacing at all interesting? Is anything in that first 20 minutes interesting? Watch it again.



To me that's a big part of the show's appeal: There are several episodes that start with something that seems to be totally weird and doesn't appear to make any sense until much later. The first episode has one of the best opening scenes of any TV shows I know. It's weird, it's frantic, and I definitely wanted to know what the hell is going on and how did the dude end up in that situation. I'm sorry it didn't work for you. You're definitely missing out (or perhaps not, considering your apparent taste).


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## sabrinathecat (Nov 5, 2013)

Yeah, but after the opening minute, everything is boring. Crappy dysfunctional family, got it. Crappy job, got it. Fired from second crappy job. His life sucks and he's whining about it. Uh huh. And... Whine, whine, whine, bitch, bitch, bitch. Why should I care what happens to him? So far, he seems to be a totally unlikable character, and not in an anti-hero kind of way.

I'm also not a fan of the en media res openings. When a show starts in the middle of the story, then bounces back to the beginning, it tells me that the writer or director had no confidence in the opening scene, and felt the need to monkey with time as a gimmick. Even when shows I generally like use this, I find it disappointing.


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