# Check Out This Beefed-Up CR17 Strahd!



## Zaran (Mar 8, 2016)

This is pretty cool.  If for some reason I run the module I might use this.


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## amerigoV (Mar 8, 2016)

Well, at least its down from 2 pages in 3.5 (EtCR). Honestly, that was the straw that broke the camel's back - I left D&D for Savage Worlds at that point.


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## turkeygiant (Mar 8, 2016)

amerigoV said:


> Well, at least its down from 2 pages in 3.5 (EtCR). Honestly, that was the straw that broke the camel's back - I left D&D for Savage Worlds at that point.




A legendary monster like Strahd is built more like a PC than a standard creature. I like that he has a bunch of versatility in the form of lots of powers, it is fitting for someone who needs to be a long term rival for a party of PCs.


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## Ath-kethin (Mar 8, 2016)

The typos just leap off the page at me.


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## Jacqual (Mar 8, 2016)

Any chance of these threads having a PDF to download? I think that would be extremely handy and helpful, the posts are very good.


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## MechaPilot (Mar 8, 2016)

A question struck me.  The charm says the target lets Strahd bite him, but the ability also says he gets a repeat save if anything harmful is done to him.  Does that include the bite which is expressly allowed under that ability?

Also the typos are funny.  Strahd goes from a he to an it in certain places.  Which, given that he is a monster, is somewhat appropriate.


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## Celtavian (Mar 8, 2016)

I'll still need to beef him up. An 18 AC at level 8 or 9 when the PCs square off against him is nothing. He's going to need a good amount of support to make him interesting. Spellcasting is only good as a force multiplier for a group. Spellcasting is a negative multiplier as an individual use of actions.


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## MechaPilot (Mar 8, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> I'll still need to beef him up. An 18 AC at level 8 or 9 when the PCs square off against him is nothing. He's going to need a good amount of support to make him interesting. Spellcasting is only good as a force multiplier for a group. Spellcasting is a negative multiplier as an individual use of actions.




It might be decent if there are more legendary actions on the next page.  Perhaps the ability to cast a spell as a legendary action, or to raise up or call some undead to fight with/for him.


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## FormerlyHemlock (Mar 8, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> I'll still need to beef him up. An 18 AC at level 8 or 9 when the PCs square off against him is nothing. He's going to need a good amount of support to make him interesting. Spellcasting is only good as a force multiplier for a group. Spellcasting is a negative multiplier as an individual use of actions.




Also, +2 Half Plate shouldn't be AC 18 anyway. It should be AC 19 after Dex. It's weird that he doesn't use a shield for AC 21--he should at least have the option.


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## Jester David (Mar 8, 2016)

I thought doing things like this would be fun.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Thanks Morus!  If I had know you were going to do this I would have taken some more time to copy-edit!  That been said, I do want everyone to realize that his lair actions in CoS really add a extra punch and he has a magic item that buffs him further that is not included in the stat block.  You need to go pick up CoS for those.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Zaran said:


> This is pretty cool.  If for some reason I run the module I might use this.




Be careful, combined with his magic item and lair actions in CoS, this version would be really deadly!


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## Sacrosanct (Mar 8, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> I'll still need to beef him up. An 18 AC at level 8 or 9 when the PCs square off against him is nothing. He's going to need a good amount of support to make him interesting. Spellcasting is only good as a force multiplier for a group. Spellcasting is a negative multiplier as an individual use of actions.




Sounds like you're still caught up in 3e thinking, where AC values are somehow tied to level ranges.  AC means a whole lot less in 5e.  You need to look at everything in its entire context, and how each ability, the environment, and occupants all tie in together.  Also, whether or not there is mechanical support there doesn't make him interesting.  How the DM uses him does.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Ath-kethin said:


> The typos just leap off the page at me.




I've corrected all the typos that WORD could find (there where only 4, mostly wold instead of wolf) and re-posted it.  Let me know if you see anything else.

But really - it is not like I'm publishing these things!


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Jacqual said:


> Any chance of these threads having a PDF to download? I think that would be extremely handy and helpful, the posts are very good.




Yes, but I was waiting until I get everything finished, or a least the drafts of everything.  That being said, you are not the first to ask so I might get that going sooner.  I just won't be able to update the PDF every time I update the thread.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

MechaPilot said:


> A question struck me.  The charm says the target lets Strahd bite him, but the ability also says he gets a repeat save if anything harmful is done to him.  Does that include the bite which is expressly allowed under that ability?




That's straight out of the MM - I guess it is up to the DM to determine 



MechaPilot said:


> Also the typos are funny.  Strahd goes from a he to an it in certain places.  Which, given that he is a monster, is somewhat appropriate.




Yeah, that is copy and paste for you.  This started out as Dragotha which I had labeled as an it.  I missed some them I guess.


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## amerigoV (Mar 8, 2016)

turkeygiant said:


> A legendary monster like Strahd is built more like a PC than a standard creature. I like that he has a bunch of versatility in the form of lots of powers, it is fitting for someone who needs to be a long term rival for a party of PCs.




I do not play 5e - but that layout looks reasonable. The 3.5 version was terrible. You do not need to see every single feat (esp if it is just an adjustment to reflect in the numbers) and have tons of skills that just do not matter just to make him more like a PC (that was a huge downfall of 3e on the DM side). All that does is create a higher risk of "oh crap, that would not have happened because I totally missed he had Super Awesome Evasion!" That happens no matter what, but cluttering the page with excess material makes it much more likely.

So listing lots of cool things he can do - good.

But Listing lots of thing he can do that do that he will never actually do and would be uncool if he did do them (Profession - Greengrocer) is bad design.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> I'll still need to beef him up. An 18 AC at level 8 or 9 when the PCs square off against him is nothing. He's going to need a good amount of support to make him interesting. Spellcasting is only good as a force multiplier for a group. Spellcasting is a negative multiplier as an individual use of actions.




I didn't want to boost him to much, but have you seen his lair actions?  Those combined with his legendary move action and magical equipment, higher HP, and regeneration make him really hard to kill.  Plus he can dish out 170 hp of damage per round.  He would definitely TPK the 4 PCs (at level 10) that I typically play with.  I don't even think I would cast spell, except maybe an first round fireball, as he can still move and/or attack with his legendary actions.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

MechaPilot said:


> It might be decent if there are more legendary actions on the next page.  Perhaps the ability to cast a spell as a legendary action, or to raise up or call some undead to fight with/for him.




Have you seen his lair actions? Those combined with his legendary move action and magical equipment, higher HP, and regeneration make him really hard to kill. Plus he can dish out 170 hp of damage per round. 

As it is now he cast a spell and still move and/or attack with his legendary actions.  But I don't even know if I would bother with it.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

MechaPilot said:


> It might be decent if there are more legendary actions on the next page.  Perhaps the ability to cast a spell as a legendary action,* or to raise up or call some undead to fight with/for him*.




Lair actions in CoS cover this.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Hemlock said:


> Also, +2 Half Plate shouldn't be AC 18 anyway. It should be AC 19 after Dex. It's weird that he doesn't use a shield for AC 21--he should at least have the option.




Yeah, I wrote the +2 half plate and then forgot to go back and check it.  Bumping his AC to 19 doesn't change is CR, so I should get that corrected.  You could definitely give him a shield, but that would impact his ability to grapple and thus bite.  Plus, I don't think Strahd is traditionally a shield user.  I wasn't trying to redesign him to make him uber-powerful.  Just a bit of a tweak to fit his traditional abilities really.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Sacrosanct said:


> Sounds like you're still caught up in 3e thinking, where AC values are somehow tied to level ranges.  AC means a whole lot less in 5e.  You need to look at everything in its entire context, and how each ability, the environment, and occupants all tie in together.  Also, whether or not there is mechanical support there doesn't make him interesting.  How the DM uses him does.




Agreed, his lair actions are particular interesting and make him very difficult in combination with his standard and legendary actions.


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## Ath-kethin (Mar 8, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> I've corrected all the typos that WORD could find (there where only 4, mostly wold instead of wolf) and re-posted it.  Let me know if you see anything else.
> 
> But really - it is not like I'm publishing these things!




This stuff happens to all of us; I seem to have an eagle eye for typos and grammatical errors on absolutely everything  - except my own writing, of course.  There, I'm blind as a bat.  It's a good idea to read a page out loud to yourself if you don't have a second pair of eyes to go over it for you.  Not that I ever do, but it's still a good idea.

Anyway, what I noticed: 

". . . invitation FORM one of the occupants."

". .  .advantage on rolls against EFFECT that turn undead."

". . . while in bat or WOLD form . . ."

". . . in WOLD form . . ."

"obeying HI SSPOKEN word . . ."

"His statistics, other than size and speed are unchanged."  Either needs another comma or to have the one already there removed.

That's all I see for errors, and I imagine you caught most of them on another pass.  You might want to tighten up some of your phrasing though.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

amerigoV said:


> I do not play 5e - but that layout looks reasonable. The 3.5 version was terrible. You do not need to see every single feat (esp if it is just an adjustment to reflect in the numbers) and have tons of skills that just do not matter just to make him more like a PC (that was a huge downfall of 3e on the DM side). All that does is create a higher risk of "oh crap, that would not have happened because I totally missed he had Super Awesome Evasion!" That happens no matter what, but cluttering the page with excess material makes it much more likely.
> 
> So listing lots of cool things he can do - good.
> 
> But Listing lots of thing he can do that do that he will never actually do and would be uncool if he did do them (Profession - Greengrocer) is bad design.




Also, I think the vampire has the largest stat block in the MM.  Most are much more reasonable.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

Ath-kethin said:


> This stuff happens to all of us; I seem to have an eagle eye for typos and grammatical errors on absolutely everything  - except my own writing, of course.  There, I'm blind as a bat.  It's a good idea to read a page out loud to yourself if you don't have a second pair of eyes to go over it for you.  Not that I ever do, but it's still a good idea.
> 
> Anyway, what I noticed:
> 
> ...




Thanks!  I fixed the WOLD ones WOLF already, but missed the others.  I get them fixed and re-post tonight.


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## UngeheuerLich (Mar 8, 2016)

Hey. I am really sure AC 18 or 19 as well as all the utility strahd has should male sure hebis indeed CR 17.


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## MechaPilot (Mar 8, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> Have you seen his lair actions? Those combined with his legendary move action and magical equipment, higher HP, and regeneration make him really hard to kill. Plus he can dish out 170 hp of damage per round.
> 
> As it is now he cast a spell and still move and/or attack with his legendary actions.  But I don't even know if I would bother with it.




No.  I don't have the adventure yet.  Waiting for payday, and even then I'll still have to have my copy ordered because the FLGS in my area designates an area that's about one foot tall by three feet wide by three feet deep for D&D books of all editions.  So, all I have to go on is what was in the OP.


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## dave2008 (Mar 8, 2016)

MechaPilot said:


> No.  I don't have the adventure yet.  Waiting for payday, and even then I'll still have to have my copy ordered because the FLGS in my area designates an area that's about one foot tall by three feet wide by three feet deep for D&D books of all editions.  So, all I have to go on is what was in the OP.




Sorry, I didn't want to give up to much from the adventure.  But I can see the lair actions, used correctly, being very effect.  Plus he gets an HP boost from a magic item that is not in the stat block.  All of those features are dependent on him being in the Castle.

FYI, I don't have it either, just skimmed it and found it posted (image of Strahd and his lair actions) posted on Reddit.


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## MechaPilot (Mar 8, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> Sorry, I didn't want to give up to much from the adventure.  But I can see the lair actions, used correctly, being very effect.  Plus he gets an HP boost from a magic item that is not in the stat block.  All of those features are dependent on him being in the Castle.
> 
> FYI, I don't have it either, just skimmed it and found it posted (image of Strahd and his lair actions) posted on Reddit.




No worries.  I think a lot of people around here do have it: it's a fairly safe assumption to make for the most part.  I am definitely looking forward to seeing the adventure.  The only downside is that I won't get to play it, just run it.

It would be nice to see other Ravenloft notables show up somewhere, even if it's not more adventures.  Strahd is cool, but he's not my favorite darklord.  That title belongs to Miss Jaqueline Renier, who I might try statting up one of these days.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> I'll still need to beef him up. An 18 AC at level 8 or 9 when the PCs square off against him is nothing. He's going to need a good amount of support to make him interesting. Spellcasting is only good as a force multiplier for a group. Spellcasting is a negative multiplier as an individual use of actions.




Celtavian, I know your an optimizer.  Do you have 4 10-12th level optimized characters/ group that I could throw at Strahd here.  I would love to test him out, but I am not much of a PC optimizer, but I don want to provide challenges for optimized parties.


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## hawkeyefan (Mar 9, 2016)

[MENTION=83242]dave2008[/MENTION] This is really cool, thanks for posting this. And for the other high level baddies you've posted in that thread...I recently used Tharizdun against my PCs, although I softened him up a bit. But I bookmarked that page and plan on using it again for my high level characters.

If you check out the Design Debate thread, you'll find several 13th level characters, most of which are optimized. I think Celtavian created 4 or 5 of them. 

Only issue is that, as I said, they're level 13. Not sure if they'd be just a little too tough for this version of Strahd.

I think the biggest factor would be the location of the battle and how the DM plays Strahd.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

hawkeyefan said:


> @_*dave2008*_ This is really cool, thanks for posting this. And for the other high level baddies you've posted in that thread...I recently used Tharizdun against my PCs, although I softened him up a bit. But I bookmarked that page and plan on using it again for my high level characters.
> 
> If you check out the Design Debate thread, you'll find several 13th level characters, most of which are optimized. I think Celtavian created 4 or 5 of them.
> 
> ...




Thanks hawkeye fan!  I will check that out.  Though I would like to get an optimized party and I'm not sure how to assembled that from a random group of PCs.  Of course, it would be good to test it both ways.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> Celtavian, I know your an optimizer.  Do you have 4 10-12th level optimized characters/ group that I could throw at Strahd here.  I would love to test him out, but I am not much of a PC optimizer, but I don want to provide challenges for optimized parties.




Not right now. I have 6 9th level characters doing _Out of the Abyss_. They are built for legendary heroic campaigning with magic items all of artifact or legendary intelligent weapon equivalency. That would be a bad test against Strahd. 

18 AC just isn't high enough. Even a +1 weapon at 9th level with _bless_ you'll have a +10 +1d4 to hit often with advantage from Special Abilities like Vow of Enmity or Reckless or _darkness_ with Devilsight. Rolling two dice with +10 +1d4 will eat through Strahd. Couple that with an entire group hammering away, it's a problem if he is alone. I hope they didn't put him alone. If he even has a handful of vampire spawn and some swarms or wolves, then you have something to work with. And hopefully an advantageous environment and some cool Castle Ravenloft lair actions.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> Thanks hawkeye fan!  I will check that out.  Though I would like to get an optimized party and I'm not sure how to assembled that from a random group of PCs.  Of course, it would be good to test it both ways.




The ones I posted are fairly optimized. Reduce them to 9th level and run them with similar magic items, you should get a good view of how it works.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> I didn't want to boost him to much, but have you seen his lair actions?  Those combined with his legendary move action and magical equipment, higher HP, and regeneration make him really hard to kill.  Plus he can dish out 170 hp of damage per round.  He would definitely TPK the 4 PCs (at level 10) that I typically play with.  I don't even think I would cast spell, except maybe an first round fireball, as he can still move and/or attack with his legendary actions.




Regeneration is defeated by the _chill touch_ cantrip or radiant damage, two very common forms of damage. When you see Regeneration, don't even consider it unless you're party has created characters with no radiant damage ability or _chill touch_. I was disappointed that 5E like 3E/_Pathfinder_ made regeneration pointless. In 3E/_Pathfinder_ it was too low as well as being too easy to beat and in 5E it's too easy to negate. Regeneration is useless against all but the most rare of PC parties.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Regeneration is defeated by the _chill touch_ cantrip or radiant damage, two very common forms of damage. When you see Regeneration, don't even consider it unless you're party has created characters with no radiant damage ability or _chill touch_. I was disappointed that 5E like 3E/_Pathfinder_ made regeneration pointless. In 3E/_Pathfinder_ it was too low as well as being too easy to beat and in 5E it's too easy to negate. Regeneration is useless against all but the most rare of PC parties.




I assume you mean vampire regeneration not regeneration in general?  However, all he has to do is step through the wall, floor, or ceiling regenerate to full and step back in.  

FYI [sblock] Strahd has a magical gem which absorbs 50 hp, giving him 221 effective HP without the regeneration, and one of his lair actions allows him to move through walls, floors, & ceilings [/sblock]


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Not right now. I have 6 9th level characters doing _Out of the Abyss_. They are built for legendary heroic campaigning with magic items all of artifact or legendary intelligent weapon equivalency. That would be a bad test against Strahd.
> 
> 18 AC just isn't high enough. Even a +1 weapon at 9th level with _bless_ you'll have a +10 +1d4 to hit often with advantage from Special Abilities like Vow of Enmity or Reckless or _darkness_ with Devilsight. Rolling two dice with +10 +1d4 will eat through Strahd. Couple that with an entire group hammering away, it's a problem if he is alone. I hope they didn't put him alone. If he even has a handful of vampire spawn and some swarms or wolves, then you have something to work with. And hopefully an advantageous environment and some cool Castle Ravenloft lair actions.




I see bless lasting for 1 round at best and with all his movement options he is very hard to pin down.  I don't see a group hammering away at him either, especially after they lost one (72 HP damage) the first round and he's charmed another 

Not sure if he is alone in the adventure but he can summon shadows and specters (lair actions) and swarms.  Personally I would have a swarm waiting for the PCs when they arrive.


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## hawkeyefan (Mar 9, 2016)

Strahd's variety of abilities make him potent. He can get away from the party so easily, and regenerate 20 points per round, and throw some minions at them, then jump back into the fray. 

Even the standard version would pose a serious threat to a strong party, as long as he's played well by the DM.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

hawkeyefan said:


> Strahd's variety of abilities make him potent. He can get away from the party so easily, and regenerate 20 points per round, and throw some minions at them, then jump back into the fray.
> 
> Even the standard version would pose a serious threat to a strong party, as long as he's played well by the DM.




My thought as well.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> I see bless lasting for 1 round at best and with all his movement options he is very hard to pin down.  I don't see a group hammering away at him either, especially after they lost one (72 HP damage) the first round and he's charmed another




Why would _bless_ last a round? You think Strahd will waste a 3rd level slot to dispel a 1st level slot? That's a big win for the PCs.



> Not sure if he is alone in the adventure but he can summon shadows and specters (lair actions) and swarms.  Personally I would have a swarm waiting for the PCs when they arrive.




Why would you think this? A paladin with an aura will probably be in over 50% of groups bolstering saves. Elves and half-elves with fey ancestry will likely be present with advantage on saves. Throw a _protection from evil and good_ on someone to make them hard to hit. Lots of ways for players to mess up a vampire bad. At least you don't have to worry about high level light clerics and sun spells.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

Looking him over, I'd boost his AC to 22 and give him 6 hit points per hit dice. I'd give him the ability to cast spells as a Legendary Action. I'd adjust his spell list. Add _shield_ to his list and maybe _banishment_ to attack weak charisma saves and get rid of summoned creatures.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> I assume you mean vampire regeneration not regeneration in general?  However, all he has to do is step through the wall, floor, or ceiling regenerate to full and step back in.
> 
> FYI [sblock] Strahd has a magical gem which absorbs 50 hp, giving him 221 effective HP without the regeneration, and one of his lair actions allows him to move through walls, floors, & ceilings [/sblock]




I mean regeneration in general. It is stopped by a _chill touch_ cantrip as is any type of healing. All you need is one group member spamming _chill touch_ and healing, regeneration, and the like is negated.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Why would _bless_ last a round? You think Strahd will waste a 3rd level slot to dispel a 1st level slot? That's a big win for the PCs.




Because the caster is dead after 1 round (or 2 at most w/  a surprise round).  But if your talking about counterspell, well you have it backwords, a 3rd level spell slot is like trash, spells are an afterthought for Strahd his big option is the 170 DPR he can do, not his spells.  The spells are there for spying, protection, distraction, and ranged attack softening.




Celtavian said:


> Why would you think this? A paladin with an aura will probably be in over 50% of groups bolstering saves. Elves and half-elves with fey ancestry will likely be present with advantage on saves. Throw a _protection from evil and good_ on someone to make them hard to hit. Lots of ways for players to mess up a vampire bad. At least you don't have to worry about high level light clerics and sun spells.




I guess your talking about being charmed, but you quoted the part about Strahd's summoning ability. I put the smiley face after it, I was being cheeky.  If the PCs had that much charm protection he wouldn't try that - waste of his time, and not needed.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Looking him over, I'd boost his AC to 22 and give him 6 hit points per hit dice. I'd give him the ability to cast spells as a Legendary Action. I'd adjust his spell list. Add _shield_ to his list and maybe _banishment_ to attack weak charisma saves and get rid of summoned creatures.




6 HP per hit die is less than he has w/ his magic equipment, not sure if you where including that or not.  Not overly worried about being hit, even less so when bless is out of the equation.  Legendary spells aren't needed IMO, they are secondary afterall.  I could see adding shield to the list, but he has good methods to escape harm that he can play a game of hide and seek and take the PCs down slowly.  Didn't think about summoned allies, would have to see how that plays out.

Do you have any suggest for the 4 classes you would choose to take on Strahd?  No MC.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> I mean regeneration in general. It is stopped by a _chill touch_ cantrip as is any type of healing. All you need is one group member spamming _chill touch_ and healing, regeneration, and the like is negated.




I never read that closely enough, that is kinda stupid powerful against regeneration.  That being said, Strahd can deflect that attack for at least 2 rounds, so if your depending on that he will be able to regain at least 40 HP. Taking his total available HP up to 260.  If takes those two round to kill the caster then even better for him.


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## hawkeyefan (Mar 9, 2016)

Well, chill touch does require an attack roll, so it may not always hit. It won't do much damage at all because he has resistance to necrotic damage. The goal though is to shut down his regeneration, which is big, but takes the caster off the table in almost every other way. Probably a fair trade because 20 HP regeneration per round is pretty huge.

At that point though, he'd likely focus on the caster. His move options allow him to bypass other party members and avoid AoOs, so the caster would be in pretty big trouble. Strahd would likely take some hits from the party, but once the caster was down, he could withdraw to a distance, and then summon some minions and drop fog cloud to slow the party down while he started regenerating again. Maybe use a few ranged spells to soften the party up. Maybe try a charm if it seems like it may work.

He's got a ton of options, and crazy mobility. If it was some kind of arena battle, yeah, a halfway smart party could handle him. But if he's played smart, if he doesn't just go toe to toe with the PC...if he withdraws and strikes again...if he uses the terrain to his advantage...I could see him laying waste to even a very capable party.


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## MonsterEnvy (Mar 9, 2016)

He is first lair option ensure that even base Strahd from the book can go toe to toe with most parties. It lets him go through the Wall, floors and ceilings in his castle as if they are not there and makes him immune to AoO for the round. This allows him to disengage from his enemies whenever he wants. They can't follow him easily and he can easily vanish using his high stealth and shapeshifting powers. After that he needs simply wait a few rounds for his regen to bring him back to full hp. After which he can attack the party again and repeat until they die or are forced to retreat as their resources vanish. 

Killing him is not easy as well. If you reduce him to 0 hp then he turns into mist and heads to his coffin. Following him will be hard as he can go through the cracks in the floor, walls and ceiling. After that the party only has an hour in game to find him and his coffin before he starts regenerating back to full strength. (This is migated if the Sunsword or Holy Symbol of Ravenkind are found.)


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

hawkeyefan said:


> Well, chill touch does require an attack roll, so it may not always hit. It won't do much damage at all because he has resistance to necrotic damage. The goal though is to shut down his regeneration, which is big, but takes the caster off the table in almost every other way. Probably a fair trade because 20 HP regeneration per round is pretty huge.
> 
> At that point though, he'd likely focus on the caster. His move options allow him to bypass other party members and avoid AoOs, so the caster would be in pretty big trouble. Strahd would likely take some hits from the party, but once the caster was down, he could withdraw to a distance, and then summon some minions and drop fog cloud to slow the party down while he started regenerating again. Maybe use a few ranged spells to soften the party up. Maybe try a charm if it seems like it may work.
> 
> He's got a ton of options, and crazy mobility. If it was some kind of arena battle, yeah, a halfway smart party could handle him. But if he's played smart, if he doesn't just go toe to toe with the PC...if he withdraws and strikes again...if he uses the terrain to his advantage...I could see him laying waste to even a very capable party.




That is basically my thought as well.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

MonsterEnvy said:


> He is first lair option ensure that even base Strahd from the book can go toe to toe with most parties. It lets him go through the Wall, floors and ceilings in his castle as if they are not there and makes him immune to AoO for the round. This allows him to disengage from his enemies whenever he wants. They can't follow him easily and he can easily vanish using his high stealth and shapeshifting powers. After that he needs simply wait a few rounds for his regen to bring him back to full hp. After which he can attack the party again and repeat until they die or are forced to retreat as their resources vanish.
> 
> Killing him is not easy as well. If you reduce him to 0 hp then he turns into mist and heads to his coffin. Following him will be hard as he can go through the cracks in the floor, walls and ceiling. After that the party only has an hour in game to find him and his coffin before he starts regenerating back to full strength. (This is migated if the Sunsword or Holy Symbol of Ravenkind are found.)




Yep, that is my thinking as well. Is mobility is crazy good. The CoS version really upped the damage a ton from the MM version.  I just beefed him up a little more.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> 6 HP per hit die is less than he has w/ his magic equipment, not sure if you where including that or not.  Not overly worried about being hit, even less so when bless is out of the equation.  Legendary spells aren't needed IMO, they are secondary afterall.  I could see adding shield to the list, but he has good methods to escape harm that he can play a game of hide and seek and take the PCs down slowly.  Didn't think about summoned allies, would have to see how that plays out.
> 
> Do you have any suggest for the 4 classes you would choose to take on Strahd?  No MC.




Hmm. No MC. Harder to optimize with no MCing.

Eldritch knight or ranger hunter archer with Sharpshooter.
paladin oath of devotion or vengeance.
Cleric (Life or light)
Bard (lore)

We've been running without a dedicated wizard for a while now. We do have a sorcerer, but mostly a blaster and does generally inferior damage other classes than the occasional nova. Arcane casters in 5E are too penalized by Legendary Resistance. Just makes them not fun to play against enemies like Strahd or other Legendary Creatures. Their attack based spells do inferior damage to single targets. And if you're going to play a support class caster, might as well play the lore bard because they're the best at it.


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## Celtavian (Mar 9, 2016)

That does sound like a nasty lair action. That will change things substantially.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Hmm. No MC. Harder to optimize with no MCing.
> 
> Eldritch knight or ranger hunter archer with Sharpshooter.
> paladin oath of devotion or vengeance.
> ...




Great! Thank you for the suggestions!


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> That does sound like a nasty lair action. That will change things substantially.




Yeah, and unlike dragons Strahd can spam the same lair action every round if he wants.


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## Farland (Mar 9, 2016)

Ath-kethin said:


> The typos just leap off the page at me.




My thoughts exactly.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Farland said:


> My thoughts exactly.




Keep in mind that these are drafts for review and comment by the community (as noted in the OP of the thread) - not published material.  I am trying to do as many as I can so I can get a draft of everything on my list posted by the end of the year (if not sooner), then I will go back and do the revisions and final editing.

Fortunately, the poster you  quoted provided examples, so I have them corrected now (4 typos and 2 or grammatical errors) if you go to the original post.


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## dave2008 (Mar 9, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Hmm. No MC. Harder to optimize with no MCing.




OK, what would you choose for MC classes (4 characters).

FYI, in the back of my mind I've been thinking about submitting to the DMsGuild an"Optimized Monsters" series that contains monsters that would provide the correct challenge per the encounter guidelines for optimized PCs/parties.  

However, to do that I need to know what you crazy kids are doing.  Also, would that be helpful or useful?  Or do people who play like you prefer to destroy "deadly" challenges and are fine with the system as is?


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## edhel (Mar 12, 2016)

Frankly, it seems rather boring.


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## dave2008 (Mar 13, 2016)

edhel said:


> Frankly, it seems rather boring.



Well the intent was to follow the official with minor tweaks, that being said it is also intended to be played with his lair actions in CoS.  Are you familiar with them, because the are great fun I think.  I wasn't trying to do anything special.  

Now any chance you want to be constructive and provide some ideas to make it less boring?


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## Faenor (Mar 15, 2016)

Celtavian said:


> Hmm. No MC. Harder to optimize with no MCing.
> 
> Eldritch knight or ranger hunter archer with Sharpshooter.
> paladin oath of devotion or vengeance.
> ...




Sorcerers for dual haste.
Then elemental adept and scorch.


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## Faenor (Mar 17, 2016)

dave2008 said:


> Well the intent was to follow the official with minor tweaks, that being said it is also intended to be played with his lair actions in CoS.  Are you familiar with them, because the are great fun I think.  I wasn't trying to do anything special.
> 
> Now any chance you want to be constructive and provide some ideas to make it less boring?




Always a gentleman.


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## evilbob (Mar 17, 2016)

Spoiler-ish

I'm not sure why people think Strahd needs to be boosted or that the boost wouldn't be enough; he's nearly impossible to kill.  Unless you do 100% of his (possibly extended) health in one round, he'll just leave.  Now, to be fair, I've seen parties that can nova for 200 damage in a round at level 10.  But even then he can't die - with the one exception that you are within running distance to his tomb.  If you can get to his tomb and corner him within the hour, you've got it - although I suppose he could flood the room with undead while you're waiting.  The other option is to use sunlight against him; unfortunately this does makes him too easy to kill, since it negates his mist form.  If you can cover him in sunlight AND do 100% of this HP in a nova, that would work - and really, beefing his stats won't change that much.  But if you can do that, the point is that you deserve to win.


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## Faenor (Mar 17, 2016)

Sunlight is easy. Part of the adventure is getting the sunblade.


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