# Star Wars Saga: The Dawn of Defiance [OOC Thread]



## possum

> STAR WARS: DAWN OF DEFIANCE
> Episode I
> THE TRAITOR’S GAMBIT
> It is a dark time in the galaxy. The evil Galactic Empire has spread
> from the Deep Core to the Outer Rim, and everywhere
> the Empire’s tyranny can be felt.
> Fleeing from the oppression of the Emperor’s minions, agents of
> Senator Bail Organa have run to a remote space station above
> Brentaal. Known to be a vocal opponent of the Empire,
> Organa may be the last hope of freedom in the galaxy.
> In the hopes of stopping these dissidents before they can
> reach the Senator, the Empire has alerted its forces on
> Sel Zonn Station, where the struggle for liberty rages on,
> and the first sparks of rebellion have begun to burn. . . .​




Setup Rules

*Four first level characters, stats generated by 28 point buy.
**Disallowed Species (due to era): Chiss, Ewok, Felucian, Nagai, Rakata, Yuuzhan Vong.  Pretty much everything else is allowed, within reason.
**The group can have as many Force-sensitives as possible, but only one member may be a trained Jedi.
*All books legal.
*For additional information, please consult the RPGA Campaign Standards for further character generation rules.


Please let me know in this thread if there are any questions.


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## Nebten

I am interested in playing I can get a character set up with in the day. I am looking at either playing a human Jedi or a Scoundrel.


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## Blackrat

I suppose you dislike the idea of players knowing the campaing through... I would really love to play, but running the campaign myself on table, I guess it wouldn't really work too well. Bummer since I like your games Possum


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## possum

Nebten said:


> I am interested in playing I can get a character set up with in the day. I am looking at either playing a human Jedi or a Scoundrel.




Sounds okay, let me see what you come up with when you're done.



Blackrat said:


> I suppose you dislike the idea of players knowing the campaing through... I would really love to play, but running the campaign myself on table, I guess it wouldn't really work too well. Bummer since I like your games Possum




As long as you don't consciously metagame, I have absolutely no problem with it.  Welcome aboard if you still want in.


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## Blackrat

possum said:


> As long as you don't consciously metagame, I have absolutely no problem with it.  Welcome aboard if you still want in.




I'll see how much interest this generates first. If you get the four up easily, I'll gladly follow the game from the shadows . There is some stuff that make it hard not to metagame if you already know it. But if there will be a spot left open, I can fill it up. Possibly with something that won't have as much impact, like a droid owned by one of the other characters...


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## Ambrus

I'd be interested in playing; a droid character if possible. Perhaps some sort of old station maintenance tech-focused droid. Out of curiosity, why aren't stock droid characters permitted?


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## Blackrat

Ambrus said:


> Out of curiosity, why aren't stock droid characters permitted?




I think they felt stock droids would be a bit too weak for the overall campaign. There is quite a lot of combat involved.


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## Dr Simon

I'm interested, but there are two big obstacles:

1) I don't own the Saga edition
2) I've skimmed through a bit of the campaign (although to be honest I really don't remember much).

I had a Duros pilot/trader (based on the Noble class, I think) for Revised SWd20, whom I'd quite like to play again if those points aren't insurmountable.


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## Ambrus

Blackrat said:


> I think they felt stock droids would be a bit too weak for the overall campaign. There is quite a lot of combat involved.



Hm. Is the general consensus that stock droids are weaker than custom droids? I thought the opposite was true.

So if it's a combat heavy game should I perhaps consider a 4º droid rather than a 2º model? I'm just wondering what'd fit in better.


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## possum

Ambrus: I really don't know why the standards won't allow you to use a stock droid.  Consider that paragragh stricken from the character creation rules of this game if you want to use a stock droid.

The game is somewhat combat heavy, I will warn you of that.

Dr. Simon: I would much rather prefer to have someone relatively knowledgable about the system in my game.  Thank you for the interest, however.


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## Nebten

*Keyton Voyran*

Here's the quick & dirty on my character. If you require a history as well, I can set you up with that. Keyton is designed to live through the first level and then I'll expand his feats & traits depending on what best works for the party.

While he is a Jedi, he is not flauting it, since this game appears to be taking place after Order 66.

[sblock=Keyton Voyran]
Keyton Voyran    CL 1
Medium Human Jedi 1
Destiny 1 (Destruction); Force 5
Init +8; Senses Perception +1
Languages Basic
Defenses Ref 16 (flat-footed 13), Fort 14, Will 14; Elusive Target
hp 31; second wind +7/15; Threshold 14
Immune +5 to Fortitude Defense against extreme heat and cold effects
Speed  6 squares
Melee lightsaber +4 (2d8) or
Melee snap baton +4 (2d4)
Ranged  by weapon +4
Base Atk +1; Grp +4
Abilities Str 10, Dex 16, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Talents Elusive Target
Feats Force Sensitivity, Improved Defenses, Weapon Finesse, Weapon Proficiency (lightsabers, simple)
Primary Skills Acrobatics +8, Initiative +8, Use the Force +7
Secondary Skills Climb +0, Deception +2, Endurance +1, Gather Information +2, Jump +0, Knowledge (bureaucracy) +0, Knowledge (galactic lore) +0, Knowledge (life sciences) +0, Knowledge (physical sciences) +0, Knowledge (social sciences) +0, Knowledge (tactics) +0, Knowledge (technology) +0, Mechanics +0, Perception +1, Persuasion +2, Pilot +3, Ride +3, Stealth +3, Survival +1, Swim +0, Treat Injury +1, Use Computer +0
Possessions 300 credits, lightsaber, snap baton, utility belt (3 day food supply, medpac, tool kit, power pack, energy cell, glow rod, comlink, liquid cable dispenser), all-temperature cloak, 2 medpacs

[/sblock]


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## Dr Simon

possum said:


> Dr. Simon: I would much rather prefer to have someone relatively knowledgable about the system in my game.  Thank you for the interest, however.




No worries, Igood luck with the game.


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## Ambrus

Since a 4º droid seems more suited to this campaign, I'm thinking of making a variant of a Dark Eye probe droid (Threats to the Galaxy) that I played awhile back. I'd build it using the "Using a stock droid chassis" character option presented in the Scavenger's Guide to Droids so as to start with a heroic level. I'd use the Probe Droid chassis traits with the exception that it'd be atypical in the sense that it'd be small sized rather than medium.

My idea is to start out as part of the space station's droid pool operating as one of many probe droids responsible for surveillance/security. A bit of code covertly inserted into its stock programming by a wily smuggler awhile back leads it to seek freedom and independence. Thoughts?


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## Blackrat

Your idea sounds workable at least to me Ambrus. I'll throw in an idea of a Pilot/Mechanic Mercenary. Probably work out from Soldier with good INT and work towards elite trooper. Species... Um, something that alien so he has a good reason to dislike the empire.


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## Ambrus

I'd focus my droid's talents on stealth, reconnaissance and covert computer slicing.


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## Guest 11456

Interested.
I'm thinking noble.


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## Blackrat

A little more refined character idea. A young Feeorin Merc/Pirate who has just been released from prison. He sat the last 1½ years for being a "separatist symphatiser". Which he wasn't until thrown into jail, but he was captured on a pirate ship raiding a republic transport. Now he is quite pissed towards the new "empire" and especially the cloned stormtroopers, ready to take any opportunity to cause them trouble.


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## Nebten

Blackrat said:


> Species... Um, something that alien so he has a good reason to dislike the empire.




I think that'll be all aliens once the Empire starts it's anti-alien propoganda and enslavement. =v)


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## Songdragon

*Interested*

I am interested as well. 

Not too sure if it will work, but my initial idea is of a ithorian scout (force sensitive), with a concept of being from a similar organization like national geographic (Interstellar Geographic). Just a thought, not to sure how he'd work in a more combat intense setting.

What do we have... I am more than willing to make something that helps the group.


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## possum

Nebtan: Your character passes the quick look.  I'll take a deep look at the numbers later on this evening.

Ambrus: Sounds interesting.

Tailspinner: Hope to see the character writeup as soon as you post it.

Blackrat: And I just played Jedi Starfighter within the week...  LOL.  Concept sounds good.

Song Dragon: Well, there's always the fact that some of your assignments have been rather dangerous.


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## Binder Fred

How about Sloor Sanbraiz, a besalisk Scoundrel? I see him as a from-the-streets grey market "trader" specializing in off-the-hoverbed acquisition and fast resale. 

Sloor started out as hired muscle on one of Ojom's largest orbiting station before bumming his way around the near systems as a cargo handler. He quickly started supplementing his too-small income with small time mule runs, dipping into debt-collection and repo work when onstation or, more rarely, onplanet (frecsing things are too marbling big!). His personnal brand of smooth-talking coertion eventually earned him notice and, also eventually, a spending account for -special- acquisitions with certain influential parties (amazing who wants to acquire things on the quiet after the Empire started really *watching*...). Only small things so far - tentative jabs into what the grey can do for them, he figures - but Sloor can almost *hear* the credits breathing in that client's shadow: play it sly, Sloor, play it smart and this will be big! In the meanwhile... well, any credit in a storm. 

[sblock="Character Sheet"]Sloor Sanbraiz
"Have yah ever woondered what it feels like tahbe hugged tah death?"
Medium-sized Besalisk Scoundrel 1
Force 5
Init +0
Languages: Basic, Besalisk
Species Trait: 4-Handed (+2 grapple), Food stores (2 days autonomy), Expert Swimmer (Reroll and Take10), Artic Dweller (Reroll survival checks)
-----------------------------
Defenses Ref 14 (flat-footed 13), Fort 12, Will 13
Hp 19/19; Threshold 12; Second Wind 12 (Unused)
-----------------------------
Speed 6
Melee +3 (+0 Grab)
Ranged +0 (+1 at point blank range)
Base Atk +0 ; Grapple +5
-----------------------------
Str 16, Dex 10, Con 12, Int 10, Wis 12, Cha 14
Talents: Fortune's Favor (extra Standard action on critical) "Well Ah *doo* have fourah these things, yah know."
Feats: WP (Simple, Pistols), Point Blank Shot, Martial Arts I
Skills: Deception +7, Gather Information +7, Persuasion +7, Stealth +5
-----------------------------
Possessions (3000 credits): 
Chodium-cooled all-weather thermalwear (100), AKA an All-Temperature cloak
Heavy blaster in hip holster (775), right hip
Belt holster, set behind blaster: Datapad [Short-range comlink(25), encryption (250), Holocapable (125)] (1400), 130 credits on Credit chip (100), Forged blaster license (150)
Pair of stun brass knuckles in concealed back holster (80) AKA Stun batons in another form
Tool box: Medpac (100), Power recharger (100), Glow rod X2 (20), Energy cells X2 (20), Power pack (25)
     False bottom: Binder cuffs (50), Flanged Ojom mace (50)[/sblock]AMBRUS: If you want, Sloor and your droid could be a team (from as far back as you care to make it). He is the one that tampered with your programming, plugging-in an old republic code-cracker that sort of went sideways on him (at least he *thinks* he used the thing correctly, defective piece of second-rate garbage!). Still, the droid might not be the most sane or obedient machine he ever encountered, but his skills sure come in handy in his - uhum - I mean their business! 

What do you think?

POSSUM: What do I use for a Besalisk racial template?  I only have the base Saga book.


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## possum

Here's what saga-edition.com converted the RCR stats to.  Doesn't look too bad.



> Besalisk
> Ability Modifiers: -2 Dex, +2 Con.
> Medium-size.
> Speed: Besalisk base speed is 6 squares.
> Extra Limbs: A typical Besalisk has four hands, though some females may have as many as eight. These hands may be used to manipulate equipment or wield weapons, and provide a +2 bonus to grapple checks. However, a Besalisk cannot attack with more than one weapon in a single round unless he has a feat or talent that allows him to do so.
> Food Stores: A Besalisk does not have to make Endurance checks to endure hunger for a number of days equal to twice his Constitution modifier.
> Expert Swimmer: See Gungan trait (SECR page 27).
> Arctic Dweller: Besalisk can reroll any Survival checks made in arctic climates, but must keep the result of the second roll even if it is worse.
> Automatic Languages: Besalisk.


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## Binder Fred

Thanks, Possum (Now *that's* service ). Should have a sheet for you somewhere tomorrow.


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## Blackrat

possum said:


> Blackrat: And I just played Jedi Starfighter within the week...  LOL.  Concept sounds good.




Hehee. Does sound a bit like Nym... My first idea started with a wookiee, but I decided that I want something that can speak basic... If for nothing else, then for the imperials to understand his insults . And I still liked the idea of a Big Freaking Alien who hits hard and is really scary. Not many options left, so I decided on Feeorin as I played Dosh the last time. And then when I needed a reason to dislike the empire, well, I admit, Nym kinda inspired the piracy idea . So far, I'm thinking a personality like that of Tyr Anazasi in Andromeda. Especially the first episodes. He's rude, he's self-centered, he plays dirty but he's nice to have around when you need to get killing. Also easily distracted and easy to fool/convince to do anything. That means low CHA, low WIS. I can have a sheet ready as soon as you want one.

Planning ahead, I'm going to build up his unarmed capabilities. Never played unarmed specialist in SW yet, and I think a total brute will be fun. That said, I'm considering the Teräs Käsi talents from Threats of Galaxy as lvl 8 pickings, and even if it's quite a long way still I wanted approval already as it will define the route I take...


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## Songdragon

*Character Stats*

Here is the character I would like to play. I kept the concept of of a force sensitive Universal Geographic person, merely changed the race to human.

A little webpage I threw together for the character... Mir Malone

I will update with detail and some character background here soon. There is only so much one can do in a day  If anyone wants to weave their character into knowing Mir, let me know. We can work something out.

~ Songdragon ~


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## Binder Fred

Updated my first post with Sloor's completed character sheet. Hope you approve! 

SONGDRAGON: We're starting at level 1, you know?


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## Songdragon

Binder Fred said:


> SONGDRAGON: We're starting at level 1, you know?




Yes I am aware. Opps...  The levels were listed wrong as I used another character's webpage as a template. All is correct now. I hope.  

~ Songdragon ~


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## Binder Fred

If you find mistakes in my sheet, please let me know.

As for a link with your character, I don't suppose she's had cause to be visited by a repo men, has she? Hired muscle to break some heads/recuparate her "rightful" property/quietly ferry -uhum- sensitive goods to an equally quiet location? If so, Sloor and the droid are the ones to call: reasonable rates combined with a total absence of after-sale services!


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## Blackrat

Well here's a sheet: 

[sblock=Naar]
Feeorin soldier 1
Destiny Destruction 1
Force Points 5
Init: +6; Senses: low-light vision, Perception +3

Languages: Basic, Feeorin, Huttese, Ryl

Defenses: Ref 15 (14 flat-footed), Fort 18, Will 9
hp: 33; Threshold: 18
Speed: 6 squares

Melee: Combat Gloves +4 (1d6+7)
Ranged: by weapon +2
Base Atk: +1; Grp: +4

Abilities: Str 17, Dex 12, Con 17, Int 14, Wis 6, Cha 6

Special Qualities: Low-Light Vision, Stronger By Age, Brutal, Inborn Resilience

Talents: Hammerblow

Feats: Armor Proficiency (light, medium), Martial Arts I, Weapon Proficiency (Simple, Pistol, Rifle)

Skills: Endurance +8, Initiative +6, Mechanics +7, Perception +3, Pilot +6

Possessions: combat gloves, slugthrower pistol, blast helmet and vest, all-temperature cloak, utility belt, bandolier, hip holster, Clips x5, 162cr[/sblock]

EDIT: Oh yeah, Hammerblow is from Legacy Era book, but is non era-specific. Mechanically speaking, it allows unarmed attacks to be made as two handed attacks, doubling the str for damage.


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## possum

All looking good so far.  This isn't required, but recommended for posting in the character thread.  Please format feats and talents not from the core rulebook with a citation for easy use.  For example: Biotech Mastery (Leg 47)


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## Binder Fred

Couldn't find a specific thread in Plots and Places. Do you want us to post in your "Tales of the Jedi" thread?


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## possum

That's because I haven't put it up yet.  Wait a couple minutes after I post this message and then look again.


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## Binder Fred

Sorry. Eager to get started, I guess.


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## Nebten

For those unable to find it: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/273066-hayabusas-dawn-defiance-dramatis-personae.html


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## Blackrat

Ambrus, are you still here? If you want in, I'll recall my submission as I know the adventure path already. If not, I will be happy to fill the 4th spot.


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## Ambrus

Sorry for the late reply. I've been trying to put together my droid character but have been busy unfortunately. When were you planning on getting rolling?


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## possum

Sorry guys, but it's been a rough couple of days for me.  I hope to start as soon as possible, but that doesn't mean that there should be a rush to get your characters created.


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## Binder Fred

Love to see that droid in the game, Ambrus, especially if you decide to hook up with Sloor after all.


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## Binder Fred

Songdragon, if it's not a secret, I was just wondering how you see Mir's link to house Organa, rebellious activities, anti-empire sentiments, all of the above? That could help you establish links with the other characters.


Come to think of it, our resident Jedi is also a mystery on that front...


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## Nebten

I don't think we are supposed to be linked to House Organa's house before hand are we?


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## Binder Fred

Depends on how you interpret the opening post: "Fleeing from the oppression of the Emperor’s minions, agents of Senator Bail Organa have run to a remote space station above Brentaal". I think some of us might *be* those agents... 

Regardless, we'll each need a reason to get involved on the right side of things and I figure a link to the House would be a very good reason indeed... There are bound to be others, of course. Did you have something in mind?


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## Nebten

Well after Order 66, the "Jedi" has plenty of reasons to oppose the Empire =v).

Mir & Keyton may know each other when they worked together, but for separate factions when researching a newly discovered world.

It is also a known fact that House Organa has supported the Jedi for many years (if I'm wrong pleast let me know, I'm just now reading about this era of time).


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## Ambrus

A few quick questions regarding droid equipment:

• Is all of a droid's starting accessories and equipment, even those bought with class credits, discounted from its encumbrance since they're its "stock" parts?
• How many and what sorts of tool appendages must a droid have to be considered to have access to toolkit or security kit? How much would such tool appendages cost individually?
• How much might a DRK-1 probe droid's "stealth shell" (Threats to the Galaxy) cost as a droid system?


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## Blackrat

Ambrus, do you have the droid book? I think it would work out much easier if you access to that book.


Ambrus said:


> • Is all of a droid's starting accessories and equipment, even those bought with class credits, discounted from its encumbrance since they're its "stock" parts?



I think there was some clearing to this somewhere, saying yes. The accessories you start with are stock parts.


Ambrus said:


> • How many and what sorts of tool appendages must a droid have to be considered to have access to toolkit or security kit? How much would such tool appendages cost individually?



Not sure about the last point, but those would be a standard tool appendage each. So the total cost for those is two appendages.


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## Blackrat

Binder Fred said:


> Depends on how you interpret the opening post: "Fleeing from the oppression of the Emperor’s minions, agents of Senator Bail Organa have run to a remote space station above Brentaal". I think some of us might *be* those agents...




Technically, that line refers to one specific agent, but depending how possum feels, some of the pc's could also be his agents...


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## Ambrus

Blackrat said:


> Ambrus, do you have the droid book?



You mean the _Scanveger's Guide to Droids_? Yes, I do.







Blackrat said:


> I think there was some clearing to this somewhere, saying yes.



If so, I haven't seen it yet.







Blackrat said:


> Not sure about the last point, but those would be a standard tool appendage each. So the total cost for those is two appendages.



A toolkit has a half-dozen or so different tools listed with it; one can't fit all of those onto one tool mount. Of those tools, a stock R2 only has an electroshock probe and an electric arc welder as well as a cutting saw. But R2-D2 is seen repairing stuff and opening locked doors all the time so I'm wondering whether simply having one tool from the toolkit affixed to one tool mount and one from the security kit affixed to another tool mount is equivalent to having both kits.


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## Songdragon

Binder Fred said:


> Songdragon, if it's not a secret, I was just wondering how you see Mir's link to house Organa, rebellious activities, anti-empire sentiments, all of the above? That could help you establish links with the other characters.




I have been considering Mir's background over the last few days. Been meaning to sit down and firm it up a little more, but the joys of family life has intruded a wee bit. So, no it is not a secret, well at least part of her life. 

Without writing it all out right now, the basics of what I had in mind...
- Mir grew up with her father a "guide" for travelers into the outer rim worlds, who in turn helped out in the clone wars as a scout of sorts. Her mother, whom Mir spent a good deal of her time with, was an archeologist traveling about to where the "finds" were. Both died at the end of the clone wars as their convoy ship was attacked and destroyed. Mir has not been able to get much detail as to what actually happened, save that a fugitive jedi was also aboard the ship that was attacked. Mir wants answers an no one is forthcoming!
- While on one of her Mother's digs, she ran into an Ror Roogak, an ithorian in the employ of Universal Geographic (and force adept). He did a piece on the planet and interviewed Mir's Mother, or wanted too. Mir was able to fill in. Ror, was impressed (and sensing Mir was a force sensitive) took her under his tutelage. She was able to get a job as his assistant and off the two went. When the war hit the two continued their part as UG correspondents, covering what the company wanted covering. When Order 66 went down, Ror and Mir went underground, or rather, proceeded into the Outer Rim where they would have less exposure. Mir left when she heard of her parents death and has tried to gain some insight as to why they died.
- Mir has an older bother on Coruscant who is the head of of some manufacturing firm, who profited well during the war. Has little interest in Mir or reasoning behind the parent's death. And a younger sister, who took after her mother as an archeologist. She too would like to know, but accepts the "offical" version of events. They speak as often as they are able considering their careers.

A bit of a ramble at the moment.  But I will work on it to flesh it out a bit more and work with anyone who might want to weave their character's into the background.

Hope that helps, some. 

~ Songdragon ~


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## Binder Fred

Ambrus said:


> A toolkit has a half-dozen or so different tools listed with it; one can't fit all of those onto one tool mount. Of those tools, a stock R2 only has an electroshock probe and an electric arc welder as well as a cutting saw. But R2-D2 is seen repairing stuff and opening locked doors all the time so I'm wondering whether simply having one tool from the toolkit affixed to one tool mount and one from the security kit affixed to another tool mount is equivalent to having both kits.




Don't have the Scavenger's Guide, but how about buying internal storage for both kits and accessing them with a hand appendage (which could take the in-game form of a dedicated tool appendage if you want). Panel pops open, your manipulator reaches in and comes out with the tool-of-the-moment attached (or grasped if you're going with a general purpose hand manipulator). Or panels pop open all over the place and a brace of spindly mechanichal arms with the tools mounted at the end come out before diving in on their "prey". Sparks fly, happy days.  

In both cases, the net effect is the same as having the tool kits and a fully functional hand available to use them effectively, so I think it makes sense.


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## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> Mir's background



Niiice. I perticularly like the war-correspondant aspect; and the way it all fits together rather nicely, actually.

Would Mir by any chance be interrested in the flight recorder from that convoy ship? It might have crossed the palms of a certain Besalisk trader you know... 

Unbeknowst to her (initialy at least), the entire command and control circuit has in fact have been "re-directed" away from the slag heap and a grey runner operating out of Brentaal rebuilt around its seemingly legit ID codes. Talk about a ghost ship!  In this scenario, Mir would 1. follow the trail up to Sloor, which would 2. direct her, after payment/convincing, towards the (pirate?) ship -- got to work in that Feeorin in somehow, Blackrat: NPC or not, he's too good to let go . Mir might then want to hire Sloor (and droid) with an eye to locate and then possibly "re-direct" said ship away from its present owners (don't think they would willingly let an outsider look into their flight recorder, juryrigged by-passes not withstanding...). It would definitively be a good reason for her and Sloor (and droid) to be snooping around the station, in any event, and maybe even have a heart to heart with a "reformed" feeorin warrior or former jedi passenger... What do you think?

As always, just brainstorming away so modify to your heart's content, please.


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## Songdragon

Binder Fred said:


> As always, just brainstorming away so modify to your heart's content, please.




I would not say war corespondent perse, more like covering effects of the war on <insert effects on natives, environmental cause, animal life, etc.>. 

As for the getting information. I would think that she asked around in the UG staff and someone was able to put her in contact with more illicit folk for her needs. That could put her in touch with Sloor and his droid companion who agree to help her find that flight recorder and perhaps others in the area at the time of the attack (Keyton perhaps, whom she knows from a few years past while doing a piece on some outer rim world).

While they may not have what they want/need, agreed to meet on the space station above Brentaal to compare notes. And others of the party to be, may bring up "other" concerns that they have come across. (nice lead into the adventure and such)

(( Sound better? ))

~ Songdragon ~
(aka Mir Malone)


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## Songdragon

Question: I have been seeing the force power *Mind Shard* floating around in force user builds. Does anyone know the source and/or what the power does?


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## perrinmiller

*Are you still taking new players?*

Possum, are you still allowing new players to get in on this?  I realize you guys are close to starting.  Let me know.

cheers,
PM


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## Nebten

I'll probably only use books that are near that time frame, so Clone Wars & Force Unleashed, but Wookieepedia says the following on the topic:

_*Mind Shard* was a __Force power__ that allowed a __Force-user__ to mentally splinter an opponent's mind, wracking him with pain._

_Jedi Academy Training Manual_


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## Songdragon

Nebten said:


> I'll probably only use books that are near that time frame, so Clone Wars & Force Unleashed, but Wookieepedia says the following on the topic:
> 
> _*Mind Shard* was a __Force power__ that allowed a __Force-user__ to mentally splinter an opponent's mind, wracking him with pain._
> 
> _Jedi Academy Training Manual_




Thanks Nebten!


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## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> She asked around in the UG staff and someone was able to put her in contact with more illicit folk for her needs. That could put her in touch with Sloor and his droid companion who agree to help her find that flight recorder and perhaps others in the area at the time of the attack (Keyton perhaps, whom she knows from a few years past while doing a piece on some outer rim world).




Given the context, that agreement will pretty much have to rest either on a straight hire (stipend + expenses) and/or the expectation of monetary gain in the near future (read "loot" ). The alternative is that they're setting you up for a bait-and-switch and/or a mugging. You wouldn't want that. 

Payment is purely a roleplay thing. Favors owed to your UG source or vengeance might lower the cost some for example (bad blood between Sloor and the apparent target of the investigation? Better, Ror Roogak once keeping quiet about a few of Sloor's -uh- youthful indiscretions AND pulling his blubber out of an Ithorian holding pen back on Tokamon?). With that last one, I suggest a symbolic 2 credits a day (a man has his pride), plus expenses. That work for you?

And, of course, droid might just drag Sloor into the developing mess for its own unphantomable reasons. 



Songdragon said:


> While they may not have what they want/need, agreed to meet on the space station above Brentaal to compare notes. And others of the party to be, may bring up "other" concerns that they have come across. (nice lead into the adventure and such)




Not sure I follow you here. Could you expand on that? 

In my head I was seeing Sloor (and droid) as semi-local on the station with Mir coming in to see them in person, at the station (after an initial comm contact by Ror, if we're leaning that way). If you want to set the start of the game at the time of that initial meeting, that's perfect with me (provided Possum gives us enough time to discuss... On second thought, maybe set the begining just *after* a deal has been struck?). The main adventure plot would sort of stumble/interfere/swallow them whole from there. 

Is that compatible with your starting situation, *Possum*?


----------



## Songdragon

Binder Fred said:


> Better, Ror Roogak once keeping quiet about a few of Sloor's -uh- youthful indiscretions AND pulling his blubber out of an Ithorian holding pen back on Tokamon?). With that last one, I suggest a symbolic 2 credits a day (a man has his pride), plus expenses. That work for you? And, of course, droid might just drag Sloor into the developing mess for its own unphantomable reasons.




This works for me.   Mir would make good with those that help her out, especially concerning this matter. Once we start, she'll drop Sloor and if his droid companion are together, 250 cr as a working in good faith payment. 



Binder Fred said:


> On second thought, maybe set the begining just *after* a deal has been struck?). The main adventure plot would sort of stumble/interfere/swallow them whole from there.




This works as well. My point above was more or less just that. We agreed to meet. by other concerns I meant, running into others (the other folk of our little merry band) we know or just met and hearing of their not so kindness for the emerging Empire... and starts the adventure.


----------



## Songdragon

Sooo...  It's been a good 10+days now for folks. Just wondering about some of the other players, as there are only 3 characters posted over on the http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/273066-hayabusas-dawn-defiance-dramatis-personae.html#post5112356 page... the others still intending to play?

Sloor Sanbraiz (Binder Fred) Scoundrel
Keyton Voyran (Nebten) Jedi
Mir Malone (Songdragon) Scout (Force User)

(a droid) (Ambrus) ???
Naar (Blackrat)  Soldier (mentioned he would drop out a few days ago, something about a 4th spot and knowing the adventure path)
??? (Tailspinner) (noble) (mentioned intrerest, but has not posted since March 2)

Perrinmiller (mentioned he was interested, if we still had room)

We can play with more than 4 players I would have thought. I know in the previous Living Force campaign, you could have up to 6 players in a mod. I believe these were designed in a similar fashion.

I suppose that it is all really for Possum to decide as to what he wants. I am all for  5-6 person party. Just some curiosity of what's happening. Itching/excited to get started and all.


----------



## Nebten

I second Songdragon's remarks.

In addtion, Possum, do you plan on only posting about once a week like your other Star Wars game?


----------



## Binder Fred

Updated Sloor's background on the RG thread, hope it meets with your approval. 

Random ideas for character links:

- Mir met Keyton during the aformentionned reporting gig and they fell in love. They've been long distance _par amour_ since then, this capper being a rare chance for them to actually live together for a while.

- Naar and Sloor are drinking buddies that sometimes compete against each other in Droidgrab team matches, a bloody capture-and-bring-back the contrary (and *armed*) hover droid game played in and on the station's outer superstructure/hull (or wherever it ends up spilling into, actually). Hand-to-hand, non-stunning weapons are allowed, as are light-weight protective suits that allow short-term exposure to vacuum (no oxygen supply though)). Illegal, of course, with lots of betting. Sloor has been cutting way back recently, as the medical bills tend to eat up a sizable chunk of his profits. There's smarter money to be made elsewhere, but, still, it was a good way to get started...

What do you guys think?


----------



## perrinmiller

*I submitted a character*

Since it sounds like it is still open, I really want in. I don't want to steal someone else's spot so I hope possum will take 5 if Ambrus is still in. 

Submitted my rough draft on the Human Soldier.  I did not spend my credits yet.  I will work on my background during the next 24 hours.

Also I checked the other characters and decided to take Use Computers and Mechanics, but I would like to change that if we have another character join that is more technical oriented, like a droid. 

thanks,
Perry


----------



## possum

perrinmiller, it's my belief that we're pretty much full and the other players are discussing backgrounds with each other.  I'm sorry, but thanks for the interest.


----------



## Nebten

Binder, I'm going to side-step the falling in love angle. No offense Songdragon 

I believe the players are ready to start =v)


----------



## Binder Fred

No problem, Nebten, just throwing them out there.

We're still missing a sheet for Ambrus' droid, but other than that, yes, I think we're ready.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> perrinmiller, it's my belief that we're pretty much full and the other players are discussing backgrounds with each other.  I'm sorry, but thanks for the interest.



Possum:  OK. Sorry to hear that you won't take any more, but I was under the impression that Ambrus was only filling the last spot if there wasn't enough interest. If you change your mind and reconsider to allow a 5th character I will keep checking for a little while longer.  I will finish the background anyway on my character just in case.  

R, PM


----------



## Binder Fred

That was Blackrat, who gave up his spot as fourth because he's playing through the adventure as a GM.


----------



## perrinmiller

My mistake.  Too bad possum won't take a 5th. I was all excited earlier.


----------



## Binder Fred

Don't give up hope. Possum's games tend to last a looong time (which is  good). I'm sure you're on top of the list as far as alternates go.


----------



## Ambrus

I posted a tentative character build in the Dramatis Personae thread. It's a tricky build and I'm fairly new to the Saga system, so I'll need to review it to make sure it all works.

While flipping through the books to look for character options, I came across the shard/iron knights in the Jedi Academy Training Manual. I'm intrigued by the notion of silicon based lifeforms that live in droid bodies. After talking to Posum about it, my idea is to play a force sensitive shard rather than a straight probe droid. As to background, I was thinking of incorporating elements proposed by others.

At this point in the timeline, Shards were newly introduced to the galaxy only a few decades earlier but are still relatively unknown. Their republic ambassadors are now being systematically assassinated and their outer rim home planet of Orax is in the process of being occupied by the new regime. I imagine that my character was recently part of a shard ambassadorial delegation from Orax who's compatriots were ambushed and slain by assassins while passing through the station. While scavenging what he thought to be a bunch of destroyed droid chassis (in fact, the droid bodies of the shard delegates) Sloor found an intact shard. Unfamiliar with the odd species, the Besalisk thought he'd found some sort of exotic gemstone. He eagerly shopped it around, looking for a buyer with deep pockets. Eventually he showed it to a scholarly fellow, Mir Malone, who was able to recognize the crystal for what it was. Taking a droid chassis that they had at hand, they endeavored to place the shard into Sloor's pet probot. Able to communicate and act once more, Sigil is now ready to team up with the rebellion so as to depose the tyrannical new regime and free his people from imprisonment on their homeworld.


----------



## Binder Fred

Mir and Sloor have just met, you know, and Sloor's motivation for "giving away" his pet probe to Sigil is not clear to me in this scenario (you might have gathered that he's a scoundrel ). What does he have to gain?

A bit short on time right now, but I suggest variations on "Sloor (originaly?) thinks Sigil (CJL ?) is a standard if quirky droid". Either A. Sloor found and repaired his original body, or B. Sloor totally mis-intepreted the "takes control of a droid" part of his research and thought the crystal was an invasive puppet program designed to take over a droid. He promptly used you to try and steal a probe droid (related to the Droidgrab games, I'm pretty sure). Things went sideways for him from there. 

Sloor is presently cerrtain that CJL is not quite right in the head, and also that he can't be brain wipped (he's tried and it took him *weeks* to get out of the doghouse on that one ). Meanwhile, Sigil has been keeping semi-quiet about his true nature, dropping pointed hints here and there after the Big Reveal did not work out : Sloor plain didn't believe him, accusing him of trying to "Get under thaw fact that I own you!" The nerve! He's been quietly investigating his options since then, playing the droid role in front of outsiders, trying to see who he can trust on this enemy station...

Anything grab you in there?


----------



## Songdragon

Binder... I am with Neb, no love story. And thanks for the heads up on Possum, for long campaigns. I would love to be able to make it through the DoD mods. 

Ambrus... Sigil, is cool.  I read about the Shards the other day and thought they were interesting. I just was not into droids myself.

As for background, I would go with the your delegation was attacked and you managed to survive. After your companions' droid parts were tossed for scrap or the like you managed to cobble yourself back together. After which you ran into Sloor who has decided to take you on as a companion. For the moment, if you and he are new friends, I would keep the Shard part to yourself. I am sure that that something odd will be noticed by Mir or Keyton with you being force sensitive. Makes for great RPing. All the above are merely suggestions. Take what you like or do not.

Saga is really nice and easy to learn I found. Until you really catch on, in combat, COVER is your friend. After that, take the 2 swift actions to AIM at the baddies to reduce their cover to defenses. They can return the favor, but it is a start. 

Perrin... Sorry, I would have thought their more room than the 4 spots (unless Possum has one of the players still playing). 

Otherwise... Looking forward to getting started.


----------



## possum

Nebten said:


> I second Songdragon's remarks.
> 
> In addtion, Possum, do you plan on only posting about once a week like your other Star Wars game?




That's mean...  Sad and true, unfortunately, but mean...  

I'm going to keep up with the thread and post in a timely manner.  It's something that I'm working on.  

Since we're pretty much done, I'm going to go ahead and start the game thread tonight.  I'll edit this post when it's up.

And it's up!


----------



## Nebten

Also, what is up with "Hayabusa" reference? Is this adventure sponsered by a motorcycle company or Ryu from Street Fighter? =v)


----------



## Ambrus

I've been hard pressed to finalize my character build and background and I unfortunately don't see my schedule lightening up anytime soon. Since I believe that Blackrat has a character ready and is chomping at the bit to play (along with many others) I think it'd be best if I simply bow out of the game before it really gets rolling. Sorry for the hassle.


----------



## possum

Nebten said:


> Also, what is up with "Hayabusa" reference? Is this adventure sponsered by a motorcycle company or Ryu from Street Fighter? =v)




Yes, we are being sponsored...  No, it's just my usual forum name that I use on pretty much every board I go on, except this one and a few others.  A simple mistake, nothing more.

Hate to see you go, Ambrus.  Feel free to come back at any time if you wish.


----------



## perrinmiller

Does that mean I should finish up my character?


----------



## Guest 11456

Oops. Sorry for the late reply, but after being sick and having trouble locating my book, I finally put together the beginnings of a character. I have a Noble playboy/playgirl son/daughter of a corrupt, well-known senator (father) and crimelord's daughter (mother). He/she seems like a typical self-absorbed spoiled brat on the outside, but secretly wants to use his/her father's ill-gotten wealth to do some good.


----------



## perrinmiller

*Updated and finish my character*

possum: I posted my finished character in the character thread.  I hope you will allow me to join and be the fourth player.

Sincerely,
Perry


----------



## possum

Welcome to the game, PerrinMiller.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks mate!


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry to see you go, Ambrus. The build itself seemed a little overpowered (all of the droid advantages, none of the drawbacks) but the concept rocked!

Perrinmiller: told you not to lose hope.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> She looks about for a besalisk and a droid, whom she was to meet on the station.




Well, not as good as the real thing, but I guess we *could* buy a droid if we pooled our ressources together... 

Let's see, I'm thinking small hovering droid, heuristic processor, one hand appendage and trained in stealth, mechanics and Treat injury, both of which we are presently lacking (oops, I stand corrected, Mack Granger has mechanical skils, still...). That would run around <checks books>  Wow! 

Ooookay, so let's make it medium size, make its hovering Exclusive, that cuts it down to 360 creds, basic processor, hand appendage 50 creds, 3 skills for 300 creds, internal comlink 250 creds, vocabulator 50 creds, Darkvision 50 creds, add 1kg of internal storage for 50 creds and that makes it... 1060 creds for the bare-bones model (Locked Access, Improved Sensors or SMALL SIZE might be nice too, too bad about the Heuristic processor...). Who wants to pitch in and make NX1-1 a worthy addition to the team$?! Sloor will cover the difference,  and eventually make you co-owner IC, of course! 

_____________________________________________
Act now, stocks are limited!


----------



## Songdragon

Tailspinner said:


> Sorry for the late reply, but after being sick and having trouble locating my book, I finally put together the beginnings of a character. I have a Noble playboy/playgirl son/daughter of a corrupt, well-known senator (father) and crimelord's daughter (mother). He/she seems like a typical self-absorbed spoiled brat on the outside, but secretly wants to use his/her father's ill-gotten wealth to do some good.




Heya Tailspinner... hope you are feeling better. I know the party could use a good "face", which a Noble would excel at.



Binder Fred said:


> Well, not as good as the real thing, but I guess we *could* buy a droid if we pooled our resources together...
> Who wants to pitch in and make NX1-1 a worthy addition to the team$?! Sloor will cover the difference,  and eventually make you co-owner IC, of course!




I am not too up on droids exactly. Something small might be nice. And we do lack Treat Injury as you said. Although not something immediate, it was something I was considering as Mir levels, 4th level will have a +1 to int and likely, but nothing set in stone, have taken at least a level of soldier by then. That and at 3rd, vital transfer will be one of the force powers I am considering.  I digress though, how much are we looking at for the droid?


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah, once Ambrus was out and since we are sticking with 4 people, I made sure we had Pilot, Use Computer, and Mechanics.  Treat Injury had be sacrificed.  I likewise haven't studied up on droids either.


----------



## Nebten

I would like to see where the adventure goes before buying into any droids. And why would it need to be trained in Stealth? If we send it out to scout, it might get blasted and now you are down 1k cred. If funds become more avaible, that might be a luxury we can afford. Who knows, we might even come across one or find one we can fix up.


----------



## perrinmiller

I agree with that. Besides my character doesn't have mush money left anyway.


----------



## Binder Fred

Stealth is also useful for hiding/surveillance, which would be the main use of the droid besides the medical aspect, I'd imagine. As for getting shot while scouting... well, yeah, that's sort of the point: that it's not you getting shot at but some droid with all its point in dex AND the ability to be rebuilt if recovered. Plus the party is then forewarned and you know what they say about that. 

Songdragon: Small would be *nice* (it gives +5 in Stealth, for one, +2 Dex and +1 Ref defence for another), but "miniaturisation" actually costs twice as much as a medium-sized droid. Right now we're looking at around 1000 credits for the basic model :

BASIC (1010 creds):
Hovering 6, Exclusive (360 creds), 
Basic processor (Free)
Hand appendage (50 creds)
3 skills (100 creds each) Perception, Stealth, Treat Injury
Internal comlink (250 creds) So  we can have live reports and heads-ups
Vocabulator (50 creds) So itspeak something else than binary

OPTIONS:
Darkvision (50 creds) cancels cover from darkness
1kg of internal storage (50 creds) for a medpack or illicit/useful cargo
Locked Access (50 creds) puts the droid's off-switch on the inside!
Fire extinguisher (200 creds) can create cover on demand!
Mechanics skill (100 creds)
Tool mount and toolkit (260 creds)
Small size (X2 cost)

I think I can scrape 900 creds off the willy Sanbraiz. What about you? Oh and what about a name (not too wild about NX1-1: originaly came up with it for a relentless scout droid ("The NX: it's inexcapable!") but it doesn,t really fit here...


----------



## Nebten

N-XS and it plays 80's New Wave background music. I dunno about you, but I've always wanted to have an soundtrack playing when I walk from one place to another


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten;
Did you post a background for Keyton somewhere? 
r/
PM


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Seeing the man step out to confront the injured woman, he notices the attire and surmises this might be the Jedi he was hoping to run into.



If Keyton can be identified as a Jedi just by looking at his clothes, than he is in a lot of trouble (this is the time of "shoot them dead on sight" order 66, remember). Let us know if we all ID you as a knight, Nebten, as that might change things around for some of us (not Sloor, not in any obvious fashion at least. Hm... Say, is there a *reward* out for you guys? )


----------



## Nebten

I hope not. Keyton is definatly trying to look non-Jedi. But one could say that those who are Force sensative might feel a little twing.  =v)


----------



## Binder Fred

Better hope they're all working on our side.


----------



## perrinmiller

Maybe from the rumored description, then?


----------



## Binder Fred

I'm a bit confused about the combat situation : is it just me or has Keyton just acted twice this round? As I see it:

Keyton: Interposes himself between troopers and woman. As you didn't specify a ready actions (and couldn't, really, based on the information you had), this should have concluded your actions this round.
Mack: Delays
Troopers: Threaten
Informants: Apparently delay or act outside our awareness
Mir and/or Mack <---- is up

Then Sloor before it's your turn again.

*EDIT:* By the by, Songdragon, Sloor first bit of action (as described and assuming it happens BEFORE Keyton attacks) will happen wether he succeeds at the Perception test or not. You canroleplay it into your move if you want.


----------



## Songdragon

Binder Fred said:


> I'm a bit confused about the combat situation : is it just me or has Keyton just acted twice this round? As I see it




The interposing was not so much an action in initiative but placing himself and talking, like we all did. The attack would be his 1st round action. To me anyhow. Do not worry, he just irked some stormtroppers, and likely has become their target. Poor Jedi. 

I am also going to wait and see how things play out for now, before getting a droid. That and I do not have much left to spend.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hm, I think I have to disagree with that. Talking is a free action, moving is not. Keyton specified his starting postion as "in the upper right corner" so he had to move to get within hand-to-hand range with the troopers (remember, none of the starting positions available to us were close enough to begin at close-range anyways). Even if we consider his two post as a single action, he then uses another move action to draw his weapon and is left with none to attack. It's actuallly to his advantage to wait until next round to act. 

That's my two cents anyway.


----------



## Binder Fred

Binder Fred said:


> Even if we consider his two post as a single action, he then uses another move action to draw his weapon and is left with none to attack.




... Which lack of attack might actually be represented by his dissmal tohit roll.  Technically he *still* should not have been able to act twice in the same round (are you listening, Nebten?), but I guess we can think of his actions as "Move, draw weapon" and make it sort of legal. Alright, you talked me into it, Songdragon, I withdraw my objection. Please go ahead and post. 


And I think I *will* buy a droid anyways (I just sort of like the idea of the two of them together). Some of the basic parts just won't be working until I have the cash to "fix" them (the communit, most likely)... Rule question for *Possum*: can Sloor take advantage of a Feint action initiated by his droid (or, while we're at it, can another character take advantage of a Feint initiated by Sloor)? Say droid buzzes their heads, they look up, Sloor shoots them while they are distracted. Or must it be the same player that does the feint *and* the following attack? (that last one makes less sense to me but hey, YMMV). I'll have the thing bought up somewhere tomorrow.


----------



## possum

I personally saw it as Keyton using a move action to get between the stormtrooper and Maya and then using a free action to talk.  In the interest of being cinematic, I had the stormtrooper reply.  Then the attack.

That's how I saw it, personally.


----------



## Binder Fred

He doesn't have Quickdraw though, so technically drawing his weapon would cost him a move action.

This is obviously getting confusing and we've barely started. I, for one, was sure the stormtroopers had acted this round when obviously they just talked and Delayed. I think it would help a lot if each of us (GM included) posted the mechanics of their move at the end of their post as well as who can act next.

Example: Stormtroopers Delay. Next up Keyton and/or Mack.


----------



## Nebten

Whoa . . . 
This is how I saw it.
Round 1: 
Key move & talk
Mack: delay & internal monologe
Troopers: Reply Keyton
Informatants: Chillin'
Mir: Move behind computer/ready to draw
Soor: Pass behind the computer consoles to the left.

Round 2
Key: draws & attacks
Troopers: Attack back
Mack:??

Since these guys can shoot an effective 21 Ref (due to Elusive Target or 26 if they don't have Precise Shot), I think getting out of the first combat alive is a priority.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry, I have been out of pocket (working 7:30am to 1:00am two days straight) for the last 48 hours, only being able to read the posts from my mobile phone.

I subscribe to the philosophy that the game rules and mechanics are for the GM to adjudicate the role-playing actions.  The other way would be like PBP chess with role-playing added on.  I was not confused either until I started catching up on this OOC thread.  I kind of agreed with possum's interpretation on Keyton's actions, and also had a similar impression of the events as Nebten saw them.

Now I have had several hours to consider it (the advantage of being halfway around the world) while you guys have been sleeping.  The only thing I am not clear on was when we actually entered combat, I think we jumped the gun on Initiative rolls while Keyton was moving in to talk to the stormtroopers.

To me Initiative rolls are applied only once hostilities have been joined, but we had not really gotten there yet.  Initially I had thought Keyton acted before rolling Initiative and if that's the case BinderFred's entire argument about drawing the weapon is moot.  From a role-palying persepective that makes sense as well.  His drawing of a weapon is the spark that triggers the Initiative checks and then combat starts so the action was basically free.  Likewise Sloor and Mir's reactions to take cover are also pre-battle.  Mack's delay was only because hostilities had not started yet and it was unlikely he was going to set them off without waiting for the result of the Stormtroopers response to Keyton's verbal challenge.

Nebten's impression is how possum saw it, except Round 2 is actually Round 1, with those other actions being pre-combat.  Therefore Mack's actions are being allowed to preceed the Stormtroopers, and potentially change the results if he rolls exceptionally well.  I would even say they should go before Keyton's if combat doesn't actually start until he draws the weapon, which was all Mack was really waiting for.

I do offer this suggestion though.  Possum, do you mind rolling all the Initiative checks once it is clear hostilities have commenced?  It saves us a round of posting and then we can submit our inputs knowing where we are falling in the order of things.  It could cut down on confusion as well.


----------



## possum

Nebten said:


> Whoa . . .
> This is how I saw it.
> Round 1:
> Key move & talk
> Mack: delay & internal monologe
> Troopers: Reply Keyton
> Informatants: Chillin'
> Mir: Move behind computer/ready to draw
> Soor: Pass behind the computer consoles to the left.
> 
> Round 2
> Key: draws & attacks
> Troopers: Attack back
> Mack:??
> 
> *Since these guys can shoot an effective 21 Ref (due to Elusive Target or 26 if they don't have Precise Shot), I think getting out of the first combat alive is a priority.*




That I did miss.  Stormies miss.

Perrinmiller: I asked for initiatives to be rolled because I absolutely knew that the situation wouldn't be resolved without hostilities.  Quite likely, though, I did jump the gun just a bit.  Sorry for any confusion.


----------



## Binder Fred

_<Oops, Possum posted while I was writting this. Still mostly relevant, I think._

Uh, skipping straight to round 2 without letting anybody else act (Mara and delaying Mack just to name those, but also Mir and the Informants) and not letting people lower down the initiative adjust their actions based on new information (pending Perception roll and all) is just as wrong as acting twice in the same round (though I see Perrimiller's point, the GM *had* called for actions round by round at this point). I'm sorry Nebten, but the simple fact is that you jumped the gun. Let's just move past it and make sure it's less likely to happen again, alright?

*Possum*, why do you favor individual initiative rolls? I'm sure you know about the grouped initiative system used in some of the other PbP games, so I'm assuming there's some mechanichal aspect you perticularly favor about this system, or some disadvantage of the other system you perticularly dislike. I'm just wondering if there isn't a way to still *get* that advantage while gaining some posting flexibility. The current initiative order, for example, calls for four seperate GM posts per round (three for the NPCs, one global post to wrap up the round). That's... less than ideal.

Just to be clear for now, Possum has specifically stated the order of things and we are NOT in round 2 and Mir and Sloor have NOT acted yet in any way (see the updated map here).

0. Everyone states their starting position within the startting grid. This is not an action, just a start-of-combat situation
1. Keyton steps forth, free talk ensues, Keyton draws his weapon
2. Mack Fires
3. Strormtrooper respond agressively
4: Informants <---- are up
5. Mir
6. Mara
7. Sloor

*Perrinmiller:* As long as the weapon is not actually in your hands, then drawing a weapon is Drawing a Weapon. In most games you actually get a speed bonus for having a weapon in a holster -- which makes sense considering that that's what they are designed for: easy retrieval of your weapon. In Saga, "Larger weapons are usually carried on shoulder straps, hangers or baldrics that cost as much as a hip holster." (Hoster description, p.140)


----------



## perrinmiller

BinderFred: Yeah I noticed when I looked through the rules again. I really miss the d20 rules where you can draw a weapon while moving if you have a BAB of +1.  Since it really wasn't clear where I actually had my rifle I guess possum is letting me have the Move Action.  I'm not going to argue since it seems logical to me to do both.


----------



## Songdragon

Nebten check your private messages, I sent a message regarding Keyton.


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten; I am not clear how/why you rolled the Attack of Opportunity. Imperial informants taking an Aim action within a threatened area does provoke an AoO, but the Informants are at least 3SQ from Keyton. According to Mack's results, the 2 Stormtroopers are down already.

Possum; Not arguing, but I was surprised the Stormtroopers went down. Just wanted to make sure I understand this. Adjusted attack roll was 15-5(AF) = 10, probably not enough to do full damage of 13. I did forget Point Blank Shot so it should have been Attack score 11, Full damage 14 (1/2 damage is 7).


----------



## Nebten

Because I read it too fast thinking that they were mortally wounded, but not down. I double checked with the map and saw that they were still up there, then thought they were valid targets. Bad on my part. It definatly was not against the informants.

So I guess Mack went before the Stormtroopers, thus they never would have been able to get a shot off?


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah, that's how I see it too.  Stormtroopers didn't actually fire.  
I had to read the post twice as well.  I didn't expect to knock 'em both down with that roll, must have been wimpy for our first combat.

Anyway possum gave me the option to adminstratively put my actions before the stormtroopers.  That was my intention all along, to hit them once they proved they were going to react violently to your intervention.  Looking back I probably would have fired before your attack as well if I had considered that fighting was actually started.  No worries, everythings copacetic.


----------



## Nebten

I guess we need to make a T-Shirt that says: *MACK SHOT FIRST*

[sblock=Picture] 






[/sblock]


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> OOC: Assuming Mara is not going to influence the fire fight, I would suggest that Sloor go ahead roll his actions.



After some reflexion, I think Possum is shooting for a relaxed mood on this one, and since my last attempt at forecasting my own actions caused confusion, mayhem and was completely off to boot, I'm just going to roll with it from now on and only post when it's my turn. YMMV, of course.



			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> I was surprised the Stormtroopers went down. Just wanted to make sure I understand this. Adjusted attack roll was 15-5(AF) = 10, probably not enough to do full damage of 13. I did forget Point Blank Shot so it should have been Attack score 11, Full damage 14 (1/2 damage is 7).
> 
> and
> 
> For Round 2 after Keyton's attack (assuming he will engage in melee on the northern most informant), Mack will likely aim and hit the two informants with autofire as well.



The rules for firing on somebody engaged in melee with your allies is not waved for area weapon attacks, are they? i.e they are not somehow more precise than regular weapons -- I don't think so anyway, quite the reverse. Usually, if you don't take the -5 to avoid hitting allies, then... Well I'm not clear the rules even allow you to wave the -5 (no mention of it on p.161 anyways), but it usually goes something like: if you miss your intended target by 5 or more, you hit your ally. It's the whole attraction of the Precise Shot feat, don't you know.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah, I agree, I am just going to roll with it, hate arguing rules.  

I only posted intentions in case Keyton wanted to know, since he could potentially block my fire.  After success with the stormtroopers that would appear to be good option again.  Not actually going to decide until it is my turn, though.


----------



## Nebten

There is no rule that you will damage an ally if you get within 5 of your target number. That was a rule from D&D 3.0 which Saga is akin to, but isn't even followed in 3.5 D&D. 

You take -5 to ranged attacks to those in melee. You can't choose to disregard it. So fire away, there is no friendly fire.


----------



## Songdragon

The best way to avoid the penalty for a foe in melee combat is precise shot (you need point blank shot first). Might be something worth picking up, since we have several melee combatants. I am still trying to figure the best way to get it while trying to keep up with the force training.

Binder... Mir will more than let the droid do the Treat Injury. Untill I can get it at some point later, she is at a +2 TI. Until I pick up some Flashflesh Medpacs (+5 to TI) for 600 cr each. I knew I should have taken vital transfer.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah Precise Shot is probably my next Feat.  Think Mack is going to be a commando or sniper type, haven't had time to work the build all the way out yet.   Still haven't worked out where I want to go with the Force Sensitivity yet either.  With a Jedi in the group we could theoritically multi-class that in.  Of course Mack also is covering the Piloting if we need it as well.  Frankly I haven't hurried to think past 1st level, because I am not sure what will be best for this campaign.  Maybe before we get to level 2 we will have a better idea.

Now that the confusion is cleared up, I am having fun!


----------



## Binder Fred

Nebten said:


> There is no rule that you will damage an ally if you get within 5 of your target number. That was a rule from D&D 3.0 which Saga is akin to, but isn't even followed in 3.5 D&D.
> 
> You take -5 to ranged attacks to those in melee. You can't choose to disregard it. So fire away, there is no friendly fire.



Sure thing. It's just that Perrin's calc example for last round did not include the -5 for adjacent allies (with your character adjacent to both his targets), just the -5 for unbraced autofire. As his expected move includes that same situation this round, I wanted to make sure we were on the same page on this.


----------



## perrinmiller

Round 1, I left the calc off because I thought the stormtroopers were flat-footed, so technically not in melee combat yet.  But that may be old d20 rules.  I just re-checked the rules and it just says adjacent.   And flat-footed only applies to surprised and unaware targets, not in the 1st round before a participant's first action.

For round 2, only 1 informant is next to Keyton, so not sure if the penalty applies to both or not. So I left it off, since I posted before getting a ruling on the dangers of friendly fire.

In both cases the to hit roll was going to miss, so only 1/2 damage.  Is it me, or does auto-fire seem too good?


----------



## perrinmiller

BinderFred: Not sure if I am understanding Sloor's attitude correctly. To be clear, at least to me 'chummer' is not insulting, sort of like saying "hey buddy". But I AM gathering Sloor is a surly scoundrel. 

But from Mack's perspective, Sloor did not fire a shot, and he has no knowledge that the droid belongs to Sloor since he was busy shooting bad guys. If his controlling player didn't know he was supposed to be part of our group, Mack would have been really tempted to start firing on him too, since he just threatened him.


----------



## Binder Fred

*[Major snipage of my own explanation of what Sloor thinks]*
On reflection, I think this bit is robbing us of some golden roleplaying opportunities, so I'm cutting it wholesale. If you've already read it, try to ignore it, please. If not and you wonder why Sloor acts the way he does, then ask in character. Your own character is likely wondering the same thing, so it's justified, and rest assured that he's reacting as a sensible being should (the reasons might not be immediately obvious to all, but they are there).


----------



## Binder Fred

Now this I find shocking: You had to *hold back* Mack from killing a guy he's just met because he made a verbal threat?! Don't know if this is accurate, but if so I am gathering that Mack is a trigger happy psychopath. How was that even a threat, exactly (it's a sharp comment about Mack's lack of survival instinct and/or common sense, sure, but a threat?), and what does the droid have to do with it?


----------



## perrinmiller

*Edit: After reading everything more time, OOC and IC, I also realized much of this original post responds to BinderFred's deleted content so I deleted it as well. Perhaps most of you were still asleep anyway.* 

I clearly failed a real-world Perception Check. I DO appreciate the insight, that's why I asked. 

I have been regretting that first encounter and was not intending Mack to be a jerk but more a ex-cop hardcase. Appears to be a typical case of egos and mis-communication. Just like the real world, eh?  And for other comment, I can't say Mack was trying to be friendly, just not insulting. "Hey chummer" is more like "hey Jack" in this case. 

I went back and reread Sloor's responses. What I thought was another threat of violence from the besalisk was actually him just calling Mack a "trigger happy psychopath" that is going to get himself killed by the authorities. Now that I understand, I can react properly.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> I DO appreciate the insight, that's why I asked.




Yeah, but it's so very *easy* to metagame from there (I'm talking about me here). Touchy questions like: Would Sloor really have perceived this action that way if I didn't know that Mack thinks this and that. Simpler, truer (and often *more fun*) not to see into other character's head too much.  

It *did* give me a chance to put Sloor's internal reasonings in so many words, which in turn made me reason out Mack's side of things (the result of which you see in my most recent post). I don't think it makes a bad story so far, or - worse - a contrived one, so if it helps the group bond together, then it's all good.



perrinmiller said:


> I have been regretting that first encounter and was not intending Mack to be a jerk but more a ex-cop hardcase.



I'm getting a definite "soldier" feel from him, especially in his last comments to Mir, references to Tangos, etc, so maybe he was in the equivalent of SWAT or some other paramilitary organization? Or maybe he's just playing at being a soldier? Guess we'll find that out too, eventually. 



perrinmiller said:


> And for other comment, I can't say Mack was trying to be friendly, just not insulting. "Hey chummer" is more like "hey Jack" in this case.



Brings back memories of Shadowrun.


----------



## Nebten

I'm going to be AFK until Easter. You guys slag some Imps while I'm gone.


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten: Have a good vacation. But I gather you are already off-line by now.



Binder Fred said:


> Brings back memories of Shadowrun.




Yeah I liked Shadowrun (and its slang), but was never sure how popular it got. I only played it a little in college and that was... well a long time ago.

I tried to find a PBP game of Shadowrun but haven't had any luck. You wouldn't by chance want to GM one? [He says with eyebrows wiggling up and down]


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Nebten: Have a good vacation. But I gather you are already off-line by now.
> 
> 
> 
> Yeah I liked Shadowrun (and its slang), but was never sure how popular it got. I only played it a little in college and that was... well a long time ago.
> 
> I tried to find a PBP game of Shadowrun but haven't had any luck. You wouldn't by chance want to GM one? [He says with eyebrows wiggling up and down]




Sorry if I let it get a little out of control.

As for Shadowrun, if it's 3rd edition and you're willing to let a newbie play, I'd be there.  I bought the book at a yard sale a year ago and have been dying to use it ever since.


----------



## perrinmiller

Possum;
No worries, it was just me mis-understanding Binder's in game posts.  We worked it out with no harm done.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> Best and quickest way to come to a decision, yes. Commitee decisions takes forever IRL, so in a PbP... Besides, they're not very dramatic.




I know you two are being light-hearted about this.   But this does raise a valid point for the future.  Given the current situation with Nebten AFK, we are not in too much of a hurry so we could take more time to debate issues this week, but a consenus probably should govern group decisions down the road.  If 2 out of 4 agree on a group action, WITHOUT objections from the other 2, that should be fine to guide the group's course.  But this assumes that people have had ample opportunity to raise objections and provide input.
Just my 2 creds on the issue.


----------



## Binder Fred

Which somehow brings us back to Shadowrun.  

I've been in two online games with this setting and I got to say that the "planning the run" portion of the event is what kills it. This usually grabs up an entire game session face to face and is downright *murder* in Pbem. I'm really hoping we can keep this game more fluid than that! The voting system is, I think, the best way to do it for anything that isn't primordialy important to your character (and if it is primordialy important, well, we can say that spending a force point will get you your way, no matter the state of the vote? If you're not willing to spend a force point for it... well, it couldn't have been that important, could it? ).

As for running a game, I'm presently at my max as far as roleplaying commitments are concerned. I'll keep you guys in mind if I do run something, though truth be told right now I'm leaning more towards doing a fantasy game next (perhaps reviving my Eggshell campaign in PbP format or something).


----------



## perrinmiller

I can go along with the Force Point idea. Sounds fine to me.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> A staticky voice comes in over the helmet of one of the fallen stormtroopers. "KD-984, come in. Repeat, status report KD-984. Better send in a squad," the clone's voice says.




Possum; I think we are all waiting for you to have us arrive at the safe house at this point.  Then I think we want to begin asking Maya questions.


----------



## Nebten

I agree if 2 people agree on the same course without any disagreement or alternative we go in that direction. I understand about the planning part of a "run" slowing things down. Hopefully those will be few and far between.


----------



## perrinmiller

Possum; I want to ask if I can administratively change something on my character.  In the rush to get him done I did not think my plan for his development all the way through.  Rather than be Force Sensitive and potentially developing Force Powers later, I think we would be better off if I took Vehicular Combat instead.  Since I haven’t actually Used the Force in game it wouldn’t have changed anything.  How about it?

Originally I thought it would be better to have more FUs, but 2 out 4 should be plenty.


----------



## possum

Since you haven't used the Force, or--if I remember correctly--even hinted at it, I'd say it'd fine to revise your character sheet.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks. Right now I am AFK, but on my iPhone. Good for reading, but not writing/editting so much. I will edit it tonight.


----------



## Binder Fred

Nebten said:


>



Yes? Switch said "pay me 1000" and "I'll reduce the price by 200 for each that become my informant". If six join, multiplied by 200 = 1200. The 1000 he's asking, minus 1200 = -200. i.e. He *owes us* 200 credits.  QED!


----------



## Nebten

Works for me. I can't understand a damn thing that lizard is saying half the time =v)


----------



## perrinmiller

It is a wee bit challenging, perhaps you understand some of my confusion on Binder's posts while you were on vacation.  Of course I am not sure what  means either.


----------



## possum

Any problems with the way I'm doing NPC initiative?  I noticed that there were some issues with the last combat.  I'm rolling for each one individually, and then averaging them out for the combined init.


----------



## Songdragon

Heya Possum, I do not think that is was much in the way initiative itself worked last time. It was more positioning of us the PCs and then how many actions we took in a turn. For what you are doing it works this time, but feel free to use the normal initiative. I believe the issues of last combat have been worked out, as we will look over our actions ( 1 swift action, 1 move action, 1 standard action) better as we continue.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> Heya Possum, I do not think that is was much in the way initiative itself worked last time. It was more positioning of us the PCs and then how many actions we took in a turn. For what you are doing it works this time, but feel free to use the normal initiative. I believe the issues of last combat have been worked out, as we will look over our actions ( 1 swift action, 1 move action, 1 standard action) better as we continue.




I agree with Songdragon, now Mack is after all of the NPCs with an initiative of 12; he is not even tied. He should be between them, but whatever you decide. I should have had a better roll.

EDIT:  Wearing my shirt that says, "Mack Shot First"  

Just to make sure I have this correct, with initiative rolls being made we are going to get shot at now. No chance for someone to talk their way into getting them to back down. 

Do the crates provide Improved Cover or regular Cover?


----------



## possum

Improved cover.  The debris will give you regular cover if you kneel behind it.

As for negotiation, there was pretty much never any chance to prevent hostilities at all.  Ganga Lor entered pretty ticked off at Switch and at you for conducting business with him.


----------



## Nebten

I wouldn't mind if it was group init, us vs them since if somebody posts something before somebody actually acts, then events may occur and you have to change your actions.

But this group seems to be pretty on the ball with posting, so far, thus we don't have to wait long for the person who is up to post.


----------



## Binder Fred

Just to note that Intimidate is not negotiation per se. It's a full round "social" attack meant to be used in combat (base book p. 71). Ganga's will defense is apparently higher than 13 (assuming a -10 circonstance bonus), but if a couple of +2s put it over the line, he would have no choice but to back down, be negatively affected in some way (shaken confidence) or something. 

If you've removed this use of the Persuassion skill, Possum, I'd like to know for future reference, right?


----------



## possum

Well, I made that decision based on the module, which actually had ten people under Ganga's employ instead of the seven visual.  Previously, Ganga had paid off Switch's guards to throw the fight and possibly outright defect if the situation deemed worth it.  With the rolls I got for Ganga's guards, I had Switch's guys betray Ganga and fight with you.

Now, he's feeling the effects of Sloor's actions.  There's still fighting, but he's not going to be doing any for a few seconds.

Hope I answered your questions.


----------



## Binder Fred

That it does!  

While we're on the subject of skills though, I've tried to use Gather Information three times so far without results. Is this a useless skill for this campaign? Should I change it to something else?


----------



## possum

It is only useless when I don't see them, which I didn't.  I'm very sorry for that.


----------



## perrinmiller

> Mack's turn. Unless you don't want to spend a destiny point.




I am not smiling. 

Sorry I was a little busy this weekend, barely able to keep up on the required posts. Otherwise I would have brought this up earlier; as I needed to go back re-read my posts to be sure. I was also originally thinking to PM this, but I changed my mind because I don’t think I am alone on this. I have taken great care on drafting this to try to keep from being misunderstood. I am grateful for being allowed to play and I have been having a good time. So at the risk of ticking the GM off and killing the game I am going to post it all.

 Possum: I am having a SERIOUS problem with how this combat got started. At first I was thinking to just go with it, figuring we are not hostile yet and the bad guys are going to mow down Switch’s guards. But now as events unfold AND I have had more time, I am more than a little upset. It would appear to me Mack’s actions were ignored and the campaign script was strictly followed to the letter instead. I believe draconian is the appropriate word. It is quite clear that the events leading up to rolling Inititiative are straight from the campaign material. To me this is an RPG not a board game, the GM has to be flexible on the situation and likewise position himself inside the game at times (like the players do) to look around react according to the scene.

In my mind Mack has been holding rear guard this entire time, mainly watchful of the Gamorreans at first. However I did not re-post he was continuing to cover the doorway either, just assumed that I did not need to. His conversations were not changing this, the spotting of Switch’s guards only made him more paranoid, not less

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5146930-post122.html

So essentially Mack has a ready weapon facing the doorway before Ganga shows up. You never said the door was closed behind us. Then two blaster bolts kill a Gamorrean in his plain view. Combat should have started then. 7 armed guys, having just killed someone in front of Mack, are NOT simply coming through that doorway without him having the opportunity to pull the trigger. Again he is essentially in a ready action state and probably more aware of them, possibly having a surprise round if the are not in view yet. The doorway's a chokepoint and they cannot realistically all get through the doorway in 6 seconds, let alone spread out a mere 10 feet away while Mack sits there holding his ‘johnson’ with a stupid grin on his face. In my mind you have given the bad guys 2 free rounds before we rolled Initiative even. It is even possible that Mack would have seen or heard some of them approach even before they shot the guard unless they all rolled Stealth Checks better than 16.

If the door is in fact closed, then it should have been posted earlier because Mack has been watching the Gomorreans while guarding the group’s backsides. Again I don’t think the player’s posts are being read carefully. Sloor’s missed Gather Information checks support this as well.

 If you do decide to rule that the door is in fact closed, then combat should have still started before it was opened. Our characters would not have just stood around after hearing blaster fire. At minimum we would have dispersed to cover and drawn weapons. It is grossly unfair leaving the heroes stuck in the middle of the room, with potentially their weapons still holstered while armed hostiles saunter into the room. I would have overlooked Mack’s being on watch having no bearing on the coming encounter if we were being allowed to have weapons out and start pretty much wherever we wanted in the room (within 6 sq of the center). If he didn’t have his weapon already in hand, his only choice of action would have been to draw it and move to cover or shoot from the middle of the room (not bloody likely). Basically giving the bad guys free reign in round 1 as well since in SWSE you cannot draw a weapon while moving and it is not a Swift Action either unless you have Quick Draw.

Now after all this, you have the bad guys target the PCs, completely ignoring the enemy right in front of them. And due to some unlucky dice rolls I have to use my precious ‘get out of jail free card’ just to stay alive?!?! Of course being hit by a natural 20 is just bad news even if Mack had Improved Cover. But if the bad guys had to survive an auto-fire burst to get into the room to even see Mack, that 20 would have been directed at one of Switch’s guards in front of the doorway instead. 

If you do actually read all of this closely and ignore it anyway, well, I’ll spend a Force Point to prevent death, dropping to 0hp and be unconscious.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hello Perrin, a couple of mitigating points, I think:

1. The introductory battle text states the doors were closed ("The blast doors slide open to reveal" etc). I sort of assumed they were as well, this being a private meeting place and all. Can't really fault the GM for not describing every door closing behind us, can we? 

2. The first action taken by Switch's bodyguard was to form a line, specifically between us and the door. Everybody here assumed this meant we had time to get ready, and that most definitively includes your truly (and yourself as well, by your own admission). 

3. Ganga's men then ignoring the bodyguards took everybody by surprise. It was meant to though. Read four posts above this: Ganga bribed the bodyguards to be on his side! We, in a very real sense, fell into a prepared ambush and were surprised, IC. 

None of us were actually Surprised in a game's mechanic sort of way though, so Possum correctly supposed that as a group we were not distracted, were paying attention to our environment and had taken the necessary precautions (that would be Mack guarding the rear ). That Mack, supposedy the most prepared, still ended up reacting after the others is plain bad luck. His low initiative roll unfortunetly shows that he wasn't, in fact, as prepared and on the ball as you thought he was and/or that he underestimated the immediate nature of the threat ("we are not hostile yet and the bad guys are going to mow down Switch’s guards", or something along those lines). Contrarely to the others, he did describe his weapon as "in hand" though, so he does definitively have that on his side of the court.

That's how I see things. YMMV, of course, and I'm definitively not the final say on this type of thing (That would be Possum ). Just thought I'd share a different point of view.


----------



## possum

First off, to address your later comment about Ganga's group targetting mainly the PCs.  I explained that earlier when I said that the Chevin had bribed the group to betray Switch, and he likely told his group of this.  That's why they targetted you.

And you are right, the part about them shooting the guards and then entering the closed doors were in the module, and both actions were in the same boxed text.  Am I putting the module first in this case?  Yes, I have to admit that I am.  I see that, at least the killing of the guards and entering the room, as sort of a video game cutscene that has pretty much nothing to do with the rules.

If you believe that I have slighted you personally in any way, I'm sorry.  That wasn't my intent.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> If you believe that I have slighted you personally in any way, I'm sorry. That wasn't my intent.



Ok, I guess it is pretty much me that has his feathers ruffled. And I am not taking it personally either, so no worries. I have no intention of taking my dice and going home. Just glad you did not take it personally either and toss me out.

I did note that the door opened. Its closure would have made my watching the Gomorrean’s incorrect then, would have been nice to know, but really has no impact on things since the door is ruled closed. I should have asked, so that issued can be tossed aside. 

[sblock= What I should have tried to do before rolling my Initiative]As Sloor was negotiating with Switch to actually work for him, Mack should have actually ordered the interlopers to halt before even entering the room having just killed the new potential ally’s guard. When Ganga’s gang ignored that, he might have opened fire before they entered the room. You still might have ruled against this, but I could have tried. [/sblock]


possum said:


> And you are right, the part about them shooting the guards and then entering the closed doors were in the module, and both actions were in the same boxed text. Am I putting the module first in this case? Yes, I have to admit that I am.




After posting I did break my personal rule and went into the campaign material and checked how this encounter was supposed to start and see if I was way off base or not. Yes the opening scene was in one block of text as I suspected, but I was specifically looking for where the characters were supposed start in the room. The material adjusts for the characters reactions to the blaster fire killing the Gomorrean by allowing the PCs to start ANYWHERE in the room, basically giving them a free round of preparation, retroactively. I think you ignored or missed that, and that was the equalizer in the situation making up for not getting to stop the scene from unfolding. Up to you if you want to fix it or not. 

Note: I did not check anything else in the campaign materials, I do not want to spoil the experience. 

However this will not save Mack from his fate (being under cover would not have helped), and I am not going to cry over spilt milk on three bad luck rolls. 



possum said:


> To address your later comment about Ganga's group targetting mainly the PCs. I explained that earlier when I said that the Chevin had bribed the group to betray Switch, and he likely told his group of this. That's why they targetted you.



I see the point on shooting the PCs, it could have been much worse I guess. So I apologize for that, it was whining.  Just hope the loss of the Soldier for the encounter doesn’t result in TPK.

I must say, these first two encounters are making me consider to shoot first and ask questions later. I will try to be more specific on Mack’s rules of engagement, but I think he is going to be walking around with his finger on the trigger of his blaster and opening fire on anyone approaching with a weapon in hand, the rest of the time on the station. Well maybe I am just kidding, but getting shot in the head tends to make a guy trigger happy afterwards.  Supports Sloor's initial impression that Mack might be a crazy psychopath.


----------



## Nebten

I don't want to sound inconsiderate, I just don't want to get involved with the discussion but is Mack going to use a Force point to stablize?

And Sloor is next?


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten said:


> I don't want to sound inconsiderate, I just don't want to get involved with the discussion but is Mack going to use a Force point to stablize?
> 
> And Sloor is next?



Yes, Mack spent the FP.  It was in the first post that I was ranting. I will put it in IC.


----------



## possum

Sloor is indeed up.


----------



## perrinmiller

Err?  Who's next?


----------



## Songdragon

Mack's up next I believe, he has 5 hp back from the droids treat injury. (second wind?) It was a quick round.

Nice crit Binder. Sloor's just showing off now. 

Hope someone has mechanics to get Switch up and going again.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> Mack's up next I believe, he has 5 hp back from the droids treat injury. (second wind?) It was a quick round.
> 
> Nice crit Binder. Sloor's just showing off now.
> 
> Hope someone has mechanics to get Switch up and going again.




Not so sure Mack is up yet, possum left him and TB off of the summary post.  Treat Injury is a Full Round and TB has to move as well doesn't he?  Also not sure he could take 10 either in combat.  If the Treat Injury spans two rounds, does his initiative get delayed from Round 2 into Round 3 and then put him right after Sloor in the order then?

The Force has balance (Sloor Crit = Bad Guy's Crit)

Mack has Mechanics, if he remembers through his head wound, of course.


----------



## Binder Fred

TB was already adjacent to Mack so no move necessary (and technically you can't stretch a full round action over two rounds anyways). 

I figure TB takes 10 on pretty much everything, being a stoic droid and all, and Possum let it go by without comment. If you prefer a roll though: 1d20+7+2=10. _<ouch>_  Your choice really.

*EDIT= *I actually think that would make a nice houserule. That droids without euristic processors always take 10, on everything except combat rolls, while euristic droids don't. Nicely underscores the differences between the two, I would think.


----------



## perrinmiller

Not complaining, just wondering since possum left him out.  I am happy to be conscious and ready to fight.  

You didn't have to roll that 1 AND post it.  Now I might get stuck with it.  That would make 4 bad luck rolls in a row for Mack.

That's what I get for complaining earlier, I guess.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry. Pretty much had to post it once it was rolled, you know. I figured with +9 on the roll though, chances were actually pretty good for equal or greater results.... and I still favor the "TB always takes 10 on skill rolls" approach, if Possum allows it (?).


----------



## perrinmiller

I have a feeling possum is not going to answer tonight (?? for you guys anyway).  It's just before lunch right now for me (at work) and later today I will post my actions with the caveat that Mack may not be conscious and let possum adjudicate later.


----------



## possum

Sorry guys, I was at D&D Encounters tonight and was checking up on another site before heading here.  I always forget about the droids...  They're evil.    By the rules as written, Mack would still be out until next turn, as--binder fred is correct--TB had to move.  He could have started working on Mack, but wouldn't have finished.  Say, penalize both a Move action on the next turn sounds about fair?

I'll allow TB to take 10 on a majority of skill rolls.  Perception is out, however.  Roll that one.

Sloor should be up again.


----------



## Binder Fred

Perrin is the one that thought TB had to move. I thought it didn't since it was already adjacent (TB is the "D" while Mack is the "%").... Diagonals are NOT considered "adjacent" then? i.e. I was fairly sure you could attack hand to hand across a diagonal (unless a wall reached that corner or something).


----------



## possum

I may be overlooking it completely, but I can't find it in the book where they specifically spell out what adjacent means in regard to diagonals.  I know that you can do it in 4th edition, but that's all.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> He has a Will of 9.  If he's still standing when it comes to his turn, he'll likely run away screaming.



YEAH!
             /​


----------



## Nebten

possum said:


> I may be overlooking it completely, but I can't find it in the book where they specifically spell out what adjacent means in regard to diagonals. I know that you can do it in 4th edition, but that's all.



 Oh my god, you are kidding right? You can also do it in 3.x, and since Saga is a hybrid of both of these games you could deduce the same thing.

If you need a rule book definition, the closest things I can give you is the Reach definition on page 161, then on page 160 under diagram 9-4 shows flanking using diagonals.


----------



## Binder Fred

I think the "moving diagonaly requires 2 squares of movement" rule is what may have confused the issue here (diagonal squares are effectively 2 squares of movement away from each other, which muddles the issue if you understand "adjacent" as "one square away"). That 9-4 diagram is pretty clear that diagonal square ARE to be considered adjacent to each other though (good catch, Nebten!), so you have to think of "adjacent" as strictly meaning "touching each other" regardles of the number of movement squares you would have to spend to get from one to the other.

Personnaly, I think 2 squares for diagonal movement is too much. In our face to face games we usualy go 2, 1, 2, 1, etc for diagonal movements made in the same move action (that goes for D&D too). It's closer to the true length of the hypothenuse you're travelling.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> Personnaly, I think 2 squares for diagonal movement is too much. In our face to face games we usualy go 2, 1, 2, 1, etc for diagonal movements made in the same move action (that goes for D&D too). It's closer to the true length of the hypothenuse you're travelling.




I agree with this, can it be a house rule?

Of course this all started when I thought TB would have to be in the same SQ as Mack.  Thus the need to move.  Sorry.


----------



## possum

Yep...  Missed it completely.  No MA penalty is necessary.  Mack may stand up and kick thug butt at the beginning of his turn.

Thanks, Nebten.


----------



## perrinmiller

Woo hoo!  Unfortunately I am off to bed now and will unlikely be able to post until tomorrow night.

I will try to post before I leave the house in the morning (about 7 hours from now), but no promises.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> One of Ganga's remaining guards turns his blaster pistol on Sloor, hoping to at least slow down the raging Besalisk.  The shot hits the four-armed alien but doesn't do that much damage to him.



With the previous discussion on adjacency, I thought I'd make sure: this does take into account the fact that Sloor is adjacent to Thug 3, right? (i.e. the shot had to hit the equivalent of REF 19).


----------



## Songdragon

I always took adjacent to mean next too, even at a diagonal. You can attack at such diagonals as well. p157 of the Saga book, in the diagram, Tuskan Raider A can make an AoO on Windu even though he's at the diagonal.

And yes diagonal movement costs double.


So Binder... looking at Crime Lord are ya?


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry only on iPhone right now. AFK until evening (8+ hours from now). I will post big to catch up.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry guys, being in Japan your Friday night was my Sat morning. Just so you know I am usually AFK during daylight hours on weekends, but usually can at least read via my iPhone to keep/catch up.  I am usually fine in the evening after my son goes to bed and I am usually on-line if you all begin posting during your AM.  Sun thru Thur nights I am usually posting from work, generally waiting for you all to finish if I don't need to interject before you guys tuck in for the night.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> So Binder... looking at Crime Lord are ya?



The thought has - hm - crossed my mind, yes.


----------



## Binder Fred

Binder Fred said:


> "If we're running awn nawn-stawp AND you gawt the canstitutiawn, Mack man, I knaw a bawncutter dawn in Marringay, patch you up within an hawer.




I'm supposing Sloor knows a gray market surgeon that can use Treat Injury\Surgery for a pumped up fee with no questions asked. It seems a fairly essential thing to know about when you're in his kind of business, but YMMV, of course. The surgeons location IS entirely changeable. I put him in the worst sector on the station (barring where we are right now ).



possum said:


> As Sloor searches Ganga's corpse during the conversation,



Ganga is dead?! Sloor was using his stun knuckles so... heart attack? And, most importantly, are the anti-taser lobby people going to come after me?


----------



## possum

Sorry, I'm so used to people going for the kill instead of trying to subdue their opposition.


----------



## Binder Fred

It's just that in Saga, there is litteraly no disadvange to using a stun baton vs a plain one. You get the same base 1d6 damage (technically 2d6 / 2 so a different probability curve but still)  PLUS the possibility of moving your target two steps down the condition track if you roll high enough.... The disadvantage is, I guess, that you have to deal with live victims afterwards.


----------



## perrinmiller

Okay technical question on droids that are dead. Mack would likely know the answer, but I do not.  Can data be retrieved off a destroyed droid?  Really don't want him back alive, just want what's in his memory chips.


----------



## possum

Let's see.  Reading the core book at the moment, it says that if the damage that drops a droid exceeds the threshold, that droid is totaled.  It says nothing about memory.  I'm going to check SGtD.

I don't think so.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah that's what I saw in the Core book.  Switch was only shot, not crushed or anything.  I would think he has salvagable parts ($$) and perhaps with the tool kit Mack can access the memory chips via the computer terminal.  Thought I would ask OOC before trying to post it in-game.


----------



## possum

You can probably get around 2-300 credits from what's salvagable of Switch, but you have to find a seller.  And R5 probably wouldn't like all that well.


----------



## Songdragon

Regarding R5...

I do not care one way or another whether we want him along or not. I was just offering the little guy a way off the station. Perhaps that is all we need to do and let him go on his way, if he wants. If we do keep him he is going to be a demanding little guy, wanting his fair share and the like. Being a play-by-post, it is much easier to keep track of NPCs than a face to face game, but I will admit it is another thing for Possum to keep track of. So whatever you guys want to do with him is fine by me.


----------



## Nebten

perrinmiller said:


> After the answer on the location of Switch’s encrypted files Mack, *he will pull Mir aside so the droid cannot hear*. “Since the R5 is friendly enough I am going to get to work on reprogramming it. Care to give me a hand? If he’s coming with us I think he needs a new master.”





 Wow that driod has a high perception check, sign him up.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah WTF!  If we had to get out of the room so he couldn't hear then say so, but he was not meant to hear that.  If he followed then that's different reaction and we would not have been where he couldn't overhear, thus nothing said yet.


----------



## possum

He wasn't meant to hear that and he didn't.  I sadly jumped straight to the dialogue.  Chalk up another mistake to me!  Just to be safe, though, I did roll a perception check.  He got a total of 15.  With the DC around 20, he did come somewhat close.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> She glances back towards the doors and Sloor up to something, "Everything okay over there?"



I'll let you know after Ganga's next action.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> He wasn't meant to hear that and he didn't. I sadly jumped straight to the dialogue. Chalk up another mistake to me! Just to be safe, though, I did roll a perception check. He got a total of 15. With the DC around 20, he did come somewhat close.




In light of Mir's opinion, Mack will not attempt the reprogamming then. I will edit the IC posts.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> Sloor: First off, OOC: Since you're standing right over him, I'm going to say that he doesn't have cover in such a scenario.



It's a logical house rule: being prone grants you cover from ranged attack, EXCEPT when the shooter is adjacent (or even two squares away in some games). In this case though, Sloor is by the cargo crates (as detailed here and here: "the besalisk slowly drops his weight on a cargo crate" and "Not bothering to get up"), so actualy 3 squares away from Ganga. (Unless you want Ponda involved in this scene, I figure Sloor gave him 50 creds to guard the outside door and just "*think* abawt making a little travel creds befawr you ship away, alright?")

[sblock=Map]
	
	




		Code:
	

| | | | | | | | | | |
| |P|P|P|P|P|P|P|P| |
| |P|P|P|P|P|P|P|P| |
| |P|P|P|P|P|P|P|P| |
| |P|P|P|P|P|P|P|P| |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| |C|C| | | | | | | |
| |C|C| |c|c| | |C|C|
| |C|C| | | | | |C|C|
| |C|C| | | | | | | |
| | | | | | | |d|d| |
| | | | | | | |d|d| |
| |C| | | | | |d|d| |
| | |B| | | | |d|d| |
| | | | | | | | | | |
| | | | | |G| | | | |

[/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller

If it's all the same to you guys, this might be a good time IC to hash out a few things between our characters.  They really don't know each other yet.


----------



## Binder Fred

You mean during the next "getting patched up/Selling the loot/Prep for the blue dock run" scene? What did you have in mind?


----------



## perrinmiller

I meant right here and now in this Deep Storage Bay.  Questions about certain characters and their roles need some clarification IC.  Mack's IC comments are just the beginning. 

Of course it can wait until we get back to Maya's or Sloor's safe house.


----------



## Binder Fred

I'm guessing cargo suits are (padded? unpadded?) Flight Suits?

Go ahead on the _'getting to know each other' _part, Perrin. Field is clear of unwanted ears.


----------



## perrinmiller

Right now at son's baseball practice (on my iPhone).  I will post later during my evening.


----------



## perrinmiller

Jeesh BinderFred, you don't believe in posting lightly do ya.  

It takes a significant amount of time just to read it, nevermind trying to understand the words Sloor is trying to say.  I am curious how long you can keep that going, it can be a chore just to write it. 

Question on Keyton.  From the picture and his initial actions, I had an impression he was older.  Particularly if he met Mir before.  But the latest has me wondering if he is a teenager, like 17-18, and a former padawan.  It's not critical info, but it does help me get a flavor for drafting Mack's responses.


----------



## Nebten

Its weird. I don't want Keyton to be young, but according to lore he'd probably be at the end of being a padawan since he's so inexperienced. 

I would probably be say young 20's. Luke was about that age in Empire & RotJ (not that I'm following in his footsteps). 

I'm trying to keep the "Jedi" cool, but Sloor appears to have a way to piss off everybody he comes in contact with. Not really the type of team player one finds or needs in this setting.


----------



## perrinmiller

OK, not a kid in Mack's eyes then.  Mack is 22, but only because I envision SW kids to mature faster.  He has already had a short career in SWAT.

Yes we need figure an IC solution to our issues.  This isn't some D&D group of adventurers meeting in a tavern and deciding to go treasure hunting.

Sloor is reminding me of Han Solo, grumbling and complaining a lot, but yet something keeps him hooked in and helping.  We have to figure out what.

We actually charged forward a little quickly and should have developed this more before meeting Switch.


----------



## Nebten

Sloor is nothing like Han. Han was at least likable. 

He didn't try to salvage guns or stormtrooper armor when he was trying to get off the Death Star.


----------



## perrinmiller

Actually I am regretting not taking at least one set of trooper armor for personal use, now.

From a practical standpoint OOC our characters are going to need funds.  Unless you know something I don't and Bail Organa's gang is going to keep us properly outfitted.  There is some equipment we will be needing/wanting, off the top of my head a Computer Interface Visor, a Surgical Kit, a security kit, and upgrade for the droid.

With regards to Sloor.  I think what we have here is a difference in playing style.  I tend to be more like BinderFred and feel a need to input more what my character is doing, rather than just what he says.  Kind of like viewing the whole thing like a scene in a movie.  He intends to RP the relationships out rather than just unrealistically throw everyone together and magically be on the same team.  He and I had some misunderstandings earlier on this, when you were on vacation Nebten.  We kind of agreed to handle it IC afterwards and for the most part we have been on the same page and have been fine since.  I have sensed your frustration OOC in your IC posts.  If it helps, view Sloor as a big grumpy teddy bear with a bark worse than his bite (assuming he is not going to bite you). From a meta-game perspective, BinderFred is unlikely to let Sloor just take off completely.

Now for you BinderFred, your posts can be hard to read due to Sloor's dialect.  In the interest of playing nice with others, maybe you should consider having Sloor's quoted words be spelled correctly.  As colorful and amusing as it is, it takes me 2-3 times of reading it just to figure out what he said.  On a morning like today, where the posts are long from everyone and people posted multiple times before I could get back in the game, it's taking me hours just to catch up.  Now I'm actually waiting for everyone to go to bed so I don't have to worry about anyone posting while I am drafting.

I didn't intend to hurt anyone's feelings, so I am sorry if I did.  We are posting frequently and with substance, that's a good thing. 

We just need to clear up some things with good communication.  Just like real life, eh?


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Jeesh BinderFred, you don't believe in posting lightly do ya.




I'll actually be slowing down quite a bit about two weeks from now. I'll be going out in the field then, where I'll likely have an internet connection but will be busy as all get out twelve hours in the day. That tends to cut down on my posting. 



perrinmiller said:


> It takes a significant amount of time just to read it, nevermind trying to understand the words Sloor is trying to say.




Is it really that hard? I'm just substituting "aw" for "oh" sounds and "an" for "on" sounds.... I don't really see how I could make it simpler at this point either.... Hm, I think a character in "A Simple Dungeoncrawl" was having a similar problem, now that I think about it. He decided to post his text in "clear" in an sblock at the bottom of his posts (more work for me but hey). Would that be acceptable?



Nebten said:


> I'm trying to keep the "Jedi" cool, but Sloor appears to have a way to piss off everybody he comes in contact with. Not really the type of team player one finds or needs in this setting.



Nebten, I'm not angry about it, but your character has told mine to 'shut up, stop what you're doing and obey me or you can just leave'. Not once, but twice. Where was the team playing there? If, on the other hand, you mean team playing as in 'running around from battle to battle with no attempt to figure out why I'm doing it', then yes, I plead guilty to a total lack of that sort of thing. Perrin wanted a scene where we get to know each other better and I agree that the group doesn't know anything significant about each other at all at this point. This is what I'm delivering, if perhaps in too brutal a form (?).



perrinmiller said:


> Sloor is reminding me of Han Solo, grumbling and complaining a lot, but yet something keeps him hooked in and helping.  We have to figure out what.



I dropped a hint there in his ranting: Sloor is pissed off that supposed rebels who consider the Empire a Very Bad Thing or, worse, are apparently out to help a complete stranger out of the goodness of their heart, don't consider the people of *his* home worth helping or saving, or even mentionning, really (wether he thinks his home *needs* saving is another matter entirely ). So Sloor, like a big cat, cares about known places, familiar people, established contacts and prepared fall back options. He's a scoundrely dwarven defender!  



Nebten said:


> Hans Solo didn't try to salvage guns or stormtrooper armor when he was trying to get off the Death Star.



Nor was Sloor while stormtroopers or chevin bandits were shooting at them (as I recall he was shielding Mir and Maya with his own body and taking down the main boss, respectively). It was, as a matter of fact, Keyton who started that last combat with a monetary offer to Switch! (and was greatly admired by Sloor for it, granted ). 

(As an aside, it's been sort of up and down in Sloor's mind as far as Keyton is concerned. He did great in the 'bribing the guard' scene and most of the following conversation with Switch, and attempting to blackmail the droid into forgetting they owed him 200 credits was right up Sloor's alley ("'we're square or we don't help you fight these guys"), but then he'll do or say something that the besalisk cannot help but see as plain crazy (heroic behavior falling in that category) or downright counterproductive to things that don't affect him negatively, or are even to his financial advantage! (getting a decent fee off Maya, hostage ransom from Ganga). It would no doubt help, a lot, if any of us *knew* Keyton was a Jedi and that some of his behavior can therefore be explained by perceiving things others can't. Might be a good idea to have that revealed in some way, at some point...)

Why you, personnaly, think salvaging loot from your adversaries, a roleplaying mainstay, is a bad thing when specifically not in combat situations though, I have no idea. I have the impression - correct me if I'm wrong, always hard to see virtual expressions and such - that it's not the looting activities per se that you object to but the time they "take away" from getting to the next combat scene. For me pbp games are there specifically for the roleplaying fun, both during and between combats, and story-goal advancement is secondary at best. YMMV, of course, but that's unlikely to change.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> I'll actually be slowing down quite a bit about two weeks from now.



 Wasn't a criticism mate.  Good luck, and hope you have time to play in your schedule.



Binder Fred said:


> Is it really that hard? I'm just substituting "aw" for "oh" sounds and  "an" for "on" sounds.... I don't really see how I could make it simpler  at this point either.... Hm, I think a character in "A Simple  Dungeoncrawl" was having a similar problem, now that I think about it.  He decided to post his text in "clear" in an sblock at the bottom of his  posts (more work for me but hey). Would that be acceptable?



I did say it is colorful and amusing, so don't change it on my account, but if others aren't reading it carefully... However, if you use a strange slang, it might help if it's defined in a spoiler block to cut down on potential confusion.  



Binder Fred said:


> Nebten, your character has told mine to 'shut up, stop what you're doing and obey me or you can just leave'. Not once, but twice. Where was the team playing there?



This hasn't gone over well with Mack or me either, BTW.  And now Mir has jumped on board, by essentially telling him to go his own way.



Binder Fred said:


> Perrin wanted a scene where we get to know each other better and I agree that the group doesn't know anything significant about each other at all at this point.



We still don't.  And there were some valid points about things IC not making any sense and Sloor has pointed them out.   Keyton and Mir have said a little about themselves, mostly what was obvious from their actions (helping Maya, no love for the empire, and can fight).   Don't Mir or Keyton want to try to understand what or why Sloor is doing what he is doing instead of just chalking it up to greed?  Mack doesn't necessarily see eye to eye with Sloor, but sees the advantages of his abilities and tried to explain his reasoning and interpretation, but well... Those comments appear to be lost in amongst the rest of the posts and forgotten.   So now we are just going to sweep it under the rug to move on, or what?



Binder Fred said:


> It would no doubt help, a lot, if any of us *knew* Keyton was a Jedi and that some of his behavior can therefore be explained by perceiving things others can't.



Both Keyton and Mir have essentially lied about their force powers by omission.  Have you figured out how you're going to fix that?  Mack and Sloor may not be happy once they learn the truth.  But that's a scene for another time.


----------



## Songdragon

Perrin said:
			
		

> Both Keyton and Mir have essentially lied about their force powers by omission. Have you figured out how you're going to fix that?  Mack and Sloor may not be happy once they learn the truth. But that's a scene for another time.




Well, I would say lying is taking it a little bit too far. But yes Mir has omitted her force use. First off consider the times we, the characters, are living in. Jedi purge and all that. Second, we just met today. It is not something you go tell folk you do not fully know yet. And thirdly and not that anyone would know yet, her Mentor, was known to give aid to the Jedi in the past and since the Pruge, has made it a choice and known to Mir to lay low.

So yes, it will be interesting  when it is revealed, considering Mir has not use some of her more obvious powers yet... soon though. Cloaking herself should prove interesting. And her illusion talent will add some flare to situations.

[sblock=And if you are interested in where Mir is going...]
 2nd level (Scout) feat is skill focus (Use the Force) +13!  
3rd level is likely Scoundrel for point blank shot, talent not too sure (considering the illusion add to change her appearance), and feat is Force Training: Rubuke, Mind Shard, and Vital Transfer
4th level +1 to Int and Wis, Soldier light armor prof, pick up Treat Injury as a skill (due to int increase) talent (no idea)
5th level Solider precise shot

Of course the story could dictate some sufferance in class choices and such. So nothing is set in stone. 
[/sblock]

I would say Mir's just a little frustrated with Sloor right now. She's a calm and cool-headed person most of the time. So getting out of this task she may take the time get more personal with Mack and Sloor. Right now, there is a task and she's focused on that.

And yes sometimes Sloor-speak is difficult to understand the first read through. If I read it over I usually get most of it. It is something that is endearing for Sloor though. Feel free to keep doing it.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> yes Mir has omitted her force use. First off consider the times we, the characters, are living in. Jedi purge and all that. Second, we just met today. It is not something you go tell folk you do not fully know yet.



Too bad she failed at her Negate Energy roll, *that* could have been hard to ignore.  But I quite agree with the rest: just blurting it out is not a sane thing to do in this context. Some subtle hints and unconscious signs might get Keyton on the trail though, him being a more experienced force user and all. If all else fails, _inadvertantly_ force chop Sloor's cerebelum next time he gets really "frustrating". 



Songdragon said:


> I would say Mir's just a little frustrated with Sloor right now. She's a calm and cool-headed person most of the time. So getting out of this task she may take the time get more personal with Mack and Sloor. Right now, there is a task and she's focused on that.



This being an action game though, I very much suspect that the short quiet times between battles ARE going to be the only character-building time we're going to get. Truth be told, it was perfectly in character for Sloor, but *I* wrote the "top of your list" remark with the fervent hope that he and Mir could get into a shouting match about it and that some things would come out in the open. She was the better woman on that one though -- serves me right.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> Well, I would say lying is taking it a little bit too far. But yes Mir has omitted her force use. First off consider the times we, the characters, are living in. Jedi purge and all that. Second, we just met today.



I was intending to do the same thing, but swapped out Force Sensitive for Vehicular Combat after the first battle.

But I did see you gave us a hint about your abilities to slide your way around potential problems in the future.


----------



## perrinmiller

Possum: Can you post the picture as is from the source material for reference?  I have done so by just screen capturing it.

With MS Office Picture Manager you can paste it in, crop, and convert from bitmap to PNG or JPG if desired. All pretty quick and easy.

With it as a reference we can use the tac grid easier.  

Also do you have Excel Tac Grids with rows and columns labeled can be quickly made into pictures as well.  Just ctrl-c the highlighted cells and paste into MS Office Picture Manager as well.

Of course if you don't have MS Office that can be tough.  

However, I have already said that I have the source material and choose to not spoil the game for myself.  It looks like the Encounter Maps don't contain spoiler info so I don't mind posting them up if you want.


----------



## possum

One thing, I highly advise _everyone_ to go to the WotC site and DL the source material, even if you don't want to spoil yourself.  I know that in the past few days I've gone on a little downloading spree with several of their articles.  I want to make sure that I'll have access to them for a long time after they take the site down.

EDIT: Hey, PM, can you tell the row & column settings for the map you made?


----------



## perrinmiller

I had a blank tac grid with squares already made in Excel for my first D&D PBeM games.  I simply added the numbers and letters into the cells along the edge of the sectioned area.  

If you have Excel, I can upload the file as an attachment for you. It is probably easier and quicker than what you are already doing.

If not, I can update it whenever I post if everyone's movements are properly defined with their grid references.  It's not a problem for me.  In another Excel sheet I have colored circles with letters in them for character and bad guy tokens. We can use 2 letters so everything can be obvious there too, not so much need for a key. (i.e. Mack=Mk, Mir=Mr, Sloor=Sr, Trooper #1=T1, etc...)

I used Excel for D&D tac grids before I got into Campaign Cartographer 2 software. 

BTW, I fixed the source material image, I think.  It wouldn't display properly in preview and afterward.


----------



## possum

I have Excel 2003, if the year makes a difference.  Thanks a lot.


----------



## perrinmiller

I will forward tonight. Sorry guys, AFK for next 12 hours.  Mack has an update once possum answers the questions.


----------



## Binder Fred

Though the ascii maps where working very well, now that we caught the trick of making the changes ourselves and pasting the maps back into our action post (something the Excel sheet won't allow you to do, I imagine). Don't know how much trouble they are for Possum to make, but I got to say I'm a convert. Goooooo ascii! 


Blee-bloo-bleep-bleeeeep!
/​


----------



## perrinmiller

I think the grid references are more important than the players being able to update the tac grid themselves.  But if we all have Excel 2003, we could do that too by DLing the attachment, update it and reattach it on our next post.  But personally, using the reference grid coordinates and getting an update by the GM once per turn is fine by me.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry I forgot to update the Excel file before the first time I attached it.  I deleted it and reattached it here.  (Perhaps no one even noticed )


----------



## Songdragon

Whichever way folks want to use is fine by me. As long as we all use the same medium.

So the plan as I see it...
Before combat... Someone opens door... Illusion of raging wookie runs roaring away and sends random bowcaster bolts all over to create distraction. We hopefully gain surprise, open up on troppers (in order sled, officer, troopers) and somehow make it to the storeroom with frosty friend (FF) get him, and get out on starship that is enroute. 

Fun times!


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> I think the grid references are more important than the players being able to update the tac grid themselves.



How so? If you edit the map yourself you have no need to say "my character moves to X12" and all targets are identified by different "icons" so there is no need for "I attack the tarasque in B3" either... What does that leave? Area attacks? Put a "*" on the square you target if it's unoccupied and it's important to specify.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder; I get the impression you will argue or debate anything. 

I think it's personal preference and ASCII is visually not pleasing. (Don't think you can argue with that now. )

In any case, I am just trying to be helpful and will work with any method.  If I post up the source material encounter map every time, then everything looks clear to me either way.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Binder; I get the impression you will argue or debate anything.



How so? 



perrinmiller said:


> I think it's personal preference and ASCII is visually not pleasing.



Brings back fond memories of Hack for me. Endless hours worming my way down ascii levels paved in ".", battling alphabet creatures in search of the next set of "<" (that would be stairs for you neophites), and finding out you've been beating up monsters over the head with your bow for three combats now because you forgot to switch it out.... GOOD TIMES!


----------



## perrinmiller

Sloor said:
			
		

> The besalisk glances his way: so *there's* the 3m thick Mack he met on  the promenade (wonder where he was gone all this time?). Walked right by  the point without even noticing it's there...




Earlier I had Mack intentionally misunderstand or not hear correctly.  But this time he did get the point.  Sloor should may be consider why Mack so quickly said he'd pay.  There is actually three reasons.


----------



## Binder Fred

He will have to mention them at some point then. Right now Sloor thinks he already *has* the perfect explanation.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sadly Mack probably will not mention anything.  Not privy to the inner thoughts of Sloor anyway, he doesn't really know what Sloor thinks about it and does not really care either mere seconds before entering combat.  

Mack is in the zone now, Sloor would probably notice this just by looking at him.  He is ignoring pretty much anything that isn't constructive that could prove distracting. And after the fight, it will probably be forgotten since it wasn't really important anyway.


----------



## perrinmiller

The hovercraft, has a gunner or pilot visible, correct?  And does he have cover and how much?


----------



## possum

The hovercraft does have a pilot visible, and the craft does provide cover for him.  With one obvious exception, that is...


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon; Did you only take a Move Action?  I think your earlier distraction was before the surprise round so you still have Standard action yet don't you?


----------



## Binder Fred

You only get a single action during the surprise round (p.150). Your choice wether it's a standard, a move or a swift though.


----------



## perrinmiller

Dang d20 rules got me again. Now Mack probably has no targets.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> <<Mack said he'd pay.  If this wasn't resolved, then Sloor had no business opening the door before allowing Nebten to respond.>>




Excuse me? Both Sloor and TB's action *have* been described exactly, with a clear conditional both on TB's healing and Sloor's opening of the door (the second has been met once Nebten posted with no objections to that opening, the first clearly hasn't, despite Nebten obviously having a chance to post since he DID post to say he moved into the room). If you want to enforce strict "time forwards" rules, which I am not advocating by the way, then it was Nebten's responsability to speak up IC at either of those conditionals. Just saying "after TB patches up Keyton", in addition to glossing over any character-building roleplay and being highly unsatisfying, is assuming either (A) that Keyton has paid or (1) that Keyton has agreed to have Mack bail him out, (2) that Mack has paid and (3) that Sloor accepts Mack's payment as solving anything about the situation. That seems a lot to assume (especially in the second case which you seem to favor as having happened), hence the demand for clarifications.

Since Nebten has now edited his last post, we can conclude that scene retroactively without slowing down ongoing combat. If you want to pause everything until it *is* concluded, you can submit that motion to Possum, sure, if you want.


----------



## Nebten

In my mind was assumed that Sloor would accept Mack's payment. Since he didn't, I changed my post, which only added dialouge but didn't change his actions. If its a matter of med-paks, Keyton will use one of his own. If its because Sloor wants to prove a point, he has done so loud and clear. Heard by all. No reason to hammer on it.

In either case let us continue on.


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten said:


> In my mind was assumed that Sloor would accept Mack's payment.
> In either case let us continue on.



Yeah me too, it was a distraction that I didn't need in RL.  But whatever, moving on, it wasn't my business anyway.

Also I want to edit my actions.  This business about not being able to fire in the surprise round has irked me and should not have happened.  If we are able to retroactively do some things, like resolve the conversation about healing Keyton then my edit should be alright.


----------



## Songdragon

Surprise Round: (p.150) "... combatants who started the battle aware of their opponents each take a single action - a standard action, a move action, or a swift action - during the surprise round."

Surprise rounds have always been only 1 action. Move or attack sort of thing, not both. Hence Mir moved so others could get at least fire. That and I was not aware or read wrong that the sled was even a viable target from the doorway. So I will be in a better position come round 1.


----------



## Nebten

And sadly there is no "5 foot" (1 meter) step either. Definatly changes things.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yes definitely miss that.  A nice house rule would be to allow it as a swift action when Move Actions are not used for movement. Stands to reason if you can fall prone as a swift action, taking a step would be about the same.

My original starting position was based on my thinking in d20, thus my step before surprise started.  At least I am hoping possum allows it.  It would seem reasonable since that was our intentions.  I am finding SE rules don't interpret RP actions very well.  d20 was more complicated but lent itself to adjudicating RP actions better.


----------



## Binder Fred

Nebten said:


> If its because Sloor wants to prove a point, he has done so loud and clear. Heard by all. No reason to hammer on it.



I admit that I'm a bit puzzled. You aknowledge that the point has been made, yet repeatedly refuse to have your character do the same (the investment of - what? - 5 minutes of writting time at the most?) and *I* am the one drawing this out? Keyton got himself into this situation by roleplaying (looking down on everything Sloor and then asking favors from him), to my mind it is therefore entirely proper to ask him to roleplay his way out of it. If you won't, that's certainly your choice -- if a bit of an odd one in what is, after all, a roleplaying game. The stipulations in my last IC post stand as written though.


----------



## possum

Sorry for my silence the past few days.  I completely forgot to tell everyone here that I would be gone and without internet access for my trip to Kansas City.  Went to go see Pearl Jam in concert on Monday and the family did some shopping the next day, so I didn't get home until yesterday afternoon.  Did I miss any questions while I was away?


----------



## perrinmiller

@Possum;
So I could not have my shift in position as Mir did her distraction, before the surprise round? Did not think that was unreasonable.


----------



## possum

Yes, you can.  Tell me where you wanted to be and I'll update the map.


----------



## perrinmiller

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5170896-post261.html

This post had everything.  Fired at T1 from B19.  Probably killed T1 in the surprise round.

I will update my latest post in Round 1 to include my attack roll against T4.


----------



## possum

You got him.  Added the kill to the post with Mir killing the pilot of the hovercraft.


----------



## Binder Fred

Possum, DID we adopt the 2-1-2-1 houserule I was proposing for diagonal moves made in the same move action? It's closer to the true distance travelled than the suggested "2 squares per diagonal move" base rule and it might make a difference in Sloor's action next round (planning to run and give Keyton some flanking if he can (and if Keyton still needs it at that point)).


----------



## possum

I never really did decide on that...  Tell you what, I'll accept on this combat and the next one on a trial basis and we'll see where it goes from there.


----------



## perrinmiller

Woo Hoo! 
How about allowing a 1sq movement as a Swift Action when Move Action isn't used for movement?


----------



## Binder Fred

By the by, as announced I'll be going into the great wilderness starting next monday. Expect slower posting from me during that time (should be back around the 23rd).


----------



## perrinmiller

Good luck BoulderFred.  (I know bad joke)

I assume Possum can NPC Sloor during the end of this combat, if we don't finish before Monday.  Or you could give him some standing orders for Sloor's next actions before you take off RL.


----------



## possum

As for your question, PM, I don't think I'm willing to go that far, yet.  

See you when you get back, Binder.


----------



## Nebten

I would like to keep it as close to the SW rules as possible. I know its easier on us the other way around, but I want to try to figure out the cinks in this system. 

Man, this fight is going fast.


----------



## possum

It is giong fast.  I think that I'm going to have to modify the later encounters to make it more competitive.


----------



## Nebten

I wouldn't. So far, we've see these fights become very fast yet very deadly. With only 4 people, one person goes down, its not pretty.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yeah, I almost got killed last time.  We are just doing well now because we either got lucky or used superior tactics. Whichever way you look at it.


----------



## perrinmiller

Umm, not to be too offending, but isn't it the Officer's turn and then Keyton's in IC.  Mir went over 24 hours ago and you both posted OOC since then so was expecting to wake this morning to my turn.  
Binder is going out of town, but he didn't say he'd be completey AFK so I assumed we weren't taking a break, right? I have Mack's intentions ready to go, but I am waiting on you two guys first.


----------



## Nebten

I'm waiting on the officer. A smart man knows when he's defeated.


----------



## perrinmiller

Correct me if I am wrong, but Trooper 2, in scurrying out of sight from Mir and entered into Mack's (and possibly Sloor's too) LOS.  It looks that way from the grid.


----------



## perrinmiller

Guys I just posted after everyone else, but Mack spoke while people were moving.  I would rather not repeat a mad rush to get to the next encounter while leaving valuable and useful things behind AGAIN.  We can do the salvage efficiently and not lose much time.  Also I asked about carrying capacity on the hover sled, but without our cargo, it is unlikely we will all fit, so we might as well dump bodies on it and three of us walk/run.


----------



## Songdragon

I have no problem with a little looting.

I had thought we got the goods off of those in Switch's place. We had the time and I do not know how many times it was mentioned that that was the plan.

As for combats... This one went quick and in our favor for several reasons. We had surprise and some nice rolls. Mir got a crit on the hoversled (which would have been nasty if he had gotten to fire his weapon on that thing) Not to mention, we are only 1st level. And I am assuming the troppers were non-heroic classes. I have no illusion ( Pun intended) that it will get harder as we continue.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> I had thought we got the goods off of those in Switch's place. We had the time and I do not know how many times it was mentioned that that was the plan.



Yeah we got what was in Switch's place, but rushed and left the armor from the first encounter (mostly my bad).  I have a shopping list of things we need and hopefully we can get them after leaving the station.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry,folks, too bushed to post today. I'm getting back to civilization tomorrow for a bit of vacation, so I should definitively have time then.


----------



## perrinmiller

_*Songdragon*_: just a reminder, Mack is no longer Force Sensitive. Possum let me change it to Vehicular Combat after the 1st battle.


----------



## Songdragon

No problem Perrin. Just letting Mir know what I as the player already know of the characters, since she has not checked them out yet.


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries, if you are like me and printed out everyone's character sheet, I didn't want you using old data.


----------



## Songdragon

Print them all out, nope. I just look over at the characters in the  Dramatis Personae thread. It is easy enough to update over there. Saves some trees too! Not to mention, I can hope that we will all need to be updating our character sheets soon.


----------



## possum

Okay, since we reached our first major break, if you will, it is time to dole out XP.  For the base encounters on the promenade, negotiating with Switch, trying to protect him, and finally retrieving the frozen agent you each get about 830 XP.  A 25% bonus for good roleplaying bumps it up to 1125 XP each, enough to level up.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yippee.  Did I read somewhere that you can spend Unused Force Points on your HP roll when leaving up to help get a max boost? Couldn't find it.


----------



## Songdragon

Coolness... *happy force dance*

I do not recall seeing such a rule about force points adding to hit points. If we are using the Dawn of Defiance standards, which are the only ones that I am aware of:



		Code:
	

Character Class Hit Points After 1st Level
Noble, scoundrel  4 + Constitution modifier
Scout             5 + Constitution modifier
Jedi, soldier     7 + Constitution modifier


Up to Possum though. I know I will be spending Force Points more often as we level and the like. As they are required to activate Illusion and other talents and force power extras as I get them.

Character sheet is updated. Easy enough this level. Main change was Skill Focus (use the force) +13


----------



## perrinmiller

Looked so more and still couldn't find it.  I checked other game books to see if I was mixing it up with Modern d20 Action Points.  Maybe it was with Action Points for Eberron, dunno.  Cannot remember where I read that.

Updated my sheet too (took Precise Shot).  Also added in the new armor, etc...
Much different defenses now. 

I also took 30 minutes today and put everything into Myth-Weavers and added the link.  They have SWSE character sheets and it helps with some auto calculating.  I recommend using that site for all your PbP character sheets.  They have many games covered (D&D 3.5, d20 Modern, Shadowrun, etc..)


----------



## perrinmiller

Did some playing with pictures today and quickly made some tokens for your Tactical grid, possum.  I attached them.


----------



## Binder Fred

Niiice. Don't want to hold things up, by the way, so feel free to move along when ready (I can keep this up forever ). 

FYI, I'm going back into the woods tomorrow. It's going to be the routine for the next 2 months or therebout, I'm afraid....


----------



## perrinmiller

_*Nebten*_: Don't forget to advance your level, your sheet still says Jedi 1.

By advance, do you mean for Maya to finish her Bacta bath? I think we should ask Maya some more questions and get to know her a little better since we just completed a mission for her. We know absolutely nothing other than her name.


----------



## Nebten

I agree. I edited my post to make that a little more clear. I just got back from Disneyland, so I'll be leveling here shortly.


----------



## perrinmiller

Gotcha.  I edited mine as well to wait for Keyton to finish in the tank before talking to Maya.  Just waiting on Possum to have Maya respond.


----------



## possum

I've been having some internet issues at the moment, so please be a little patient.  I can still connect and post to enWorld, but it is slow.  I may have to finally upgrade to high-speed internet, LOL.


----------



## perrinmiller

I hope you have good luck with those issues.

It could be worse.  You could have your Internet service shut off and have to take your laptop to McD's to use their hot spot while on battery power.  Or even having to post completely from a shared PC at your public library.  (Both true stories from another GM that I know.)


----------



## perrinmiller

Possum;  Did you like the tokens?  You can easily insert them as files into the Spreadsheet and then move them around easier than the letters we were using.  Once I have a picture making them is a snap.


----------



## perrinmiller

OK.  Stupid question What does "EU Fu" stand for?  "Fu" I believe stands for Force User, but not clear EU.


----------



## Nebten

I am going to assume it means "Extended Universe" which is everything about Star Wars outside of the movies.


----------



## possum

EU fu means knowledge of Star Wars beyond the movies.  In context, it meant "look up a Caamasi named Ylenic on Wookieepedia and find out who he really is"  The tokens looked nice.


----------



## perrinmiller

Gotcha.  I really need to use Wookieepedia more.    Usually I just go through the books.


----------



## perrinmiller

Darths & Droids

This is the funniest thing I have read in a long time.  Just the first page had me practically in tears.


----------



## Songdragon

Regarding the gear discussion.

From what Possum had said we were being offered 40% of the book value on non weapons. While I can see asking an influential noble for a few goodies to be tossed into the deal, we cannot expect to have a big list of gear handed to us. The discount in price is a lot in and of itself.

I guess a question is then, of the gear asked for and the like was Organa giving us some of the requested items, or were we paying for them?

From what Sloor was stating we get another 500cr from the rescue of our frozen friend? And the 2000cr is what we are to receive at the end of finding out what happened to the Admiral and rescuing if possible?

Sorry to be all... picky and such.


----------



## perrinmiller

Not so picky.  I too am trying to figure out how much money we have.


----------



## Songdragon

That would be nice to know. Seems Sloor is spending all the credits...  His anyhow. Besides the 500 from the job on the station, not sure that Mir's share is.


----------



## perrinmiller

The equipment from V14, we inventoried. With computer slicing taking some time This could have been put in TB while waiting.  If we left it, then perhaps Sloor arranged the sale through Panda en route Alderaan.  But if it's being balanced by free gear from Bail, then it works for me.


----------



## perrinmiller

BinderFred;  Here's the info on the hoversled.  Not sure what we can do with it.  I think Possum let us get away with loading the cargo and bodies on it when they probably did not fit.

[sblock=Info from source material]Aratech 64-Y Swift 3 Repulsor Sled
Large ground vehicle (speeder)
Init +10; Senses Perception +8
----------------------------------
Defenses Ref 14 (flat-footed 11), Fort 13; +1 armor
hp 32; DR 5; Threshold 18
----------------------------------
Speed 12 squares (max. velocity 800 km/h)
Ranged medium blaster cannon +7 or
drop net +7
Fighting Space 2x2; Cover none
Base Atk +5; Grp +13
Atk Options autofire (medium blaster cannon), drop net
---------------------------------
Abilities Str 16, Dex 16, Con —, Int 14
Skills Initiative +10, Mechanics +8, Perception +8, Pilot +10
---------------------------------
Crew 1 (expert); Passengers none
Cargo 4 kg; Consumables 1 day; Carried Craft none
Payload 1 drop net
Availability Military; Cost 8,000 (1,800 used)
---------------------------------
Medium blaster cannon (pilot)
Atk +7 (+2 autofire), Dmg 3d10
---------------------------------
Drop net (pilot)
Atk +7, Dmg 6d10 ion (grapple +13)
Drop Net—When you fire this weapon, make an attack roll against all  targets in a 2-square-by-2-square area within 12 squares. If you exceed a  target’s Reflex Defense, that target is grabbed (–2 penalty on attack  rolls) for 1 round. [/sblock]


----------



## possum

You beat me to it.


----------



## perrinmiller

I guess I am ready too. I can always postumously post the evening's aftermath. 

I don't think it is the carousing that would be holding up Sloor and Mack, but rather the little issue of the hoversled conversion.  Of course if Alderaan is going to be our base of operations, we can always pick that up again on our return.


----------



## Binder Fred

No time to post today. Back tomorrow!


----------



## Binder Fred

*Vacation notice*

Hello all. Just warning everyone that I'll be going on my annual camping vacation starting early next week. I'll likely be incommunicado for a full 14 days or therebouts. I'll keep you apprised of any changes.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon and Nebten;  Just so you know, I am intentionally delaying responding to Mir and Keyton.  Mack has responses, but I don't want to post them until after Possum has posted regarding his latest.


----------



## perrinmiller

I put this in an OOC Block on the IC thread, but with EnWorld issues I decided to post it here as well.

Umm, not sure what the deal is.  Is Keyton just not a team player or is it Nebten?  With half the group  leaning one way, Keyton just effectively cut us off at the knees.  It  might be perfectly IC for his actions, but I am a little annoyed OOC  about it.  If there is a difference of opinion, we could have raised the  issue on the OOC thread. Now, we have a possible majority being  over-ruled by the actions of one.


----------



## Nebten

possum said:


> You all hear the signature whine of a speederbike somewhere in the distance. Vazus' head snaps up. "Serves me right for tempting fate..." he mutters as he leaves the hut.






Songdragon said:


> "Oh, joy..." follows Vazus out of the hut...




Mir, Varzus and Keyton went outside. 3/5 people would make the majority. One person didn't overrule anything. One person just didn't agree with you. Besides, remember the speeder chase from RotJ?


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry, I am going to nit pick on this.  

The vote was 2 out of 4 to not reveal ourselves (Vazus doesn't count for party decisions).  Mir went to the doorway and then Mack asked her to reconsider.  In my mind, she had not fully committed yet and could have ducked back.  So the way I see it, we had almost a majority to not reveal ourselves.  We pretty much agreed to this kind of decision making at the beginning.  So if I see no reason we could not have discussed it OOC first.  To me that would have been the polite thing to do.  We would have done it playing around a table.

I am role-playing it and not rushing along to the next significant event. So one human gone native seen by the imperials, is significantly different than the imperials being alerted to our little strike team (Mack in his armor, a four armed Besalisk, Keyton carrying a lightsaber, and a capable Scout) being caught out in the open of the village.  And until more was revealed, we didn't even know if the speeder had even seen the village.

I am fully away of the movie reference, thus keeping our team out of sight.  In the movie, those speeders were not rushing to report back sightings of the native population.


----------



## Binder Fred

So I guess we're waiting for the trooper's actions?


----------



## Songdragon

Looks like... Damn diebot!  Of all the numbers I could have rolled, Even a 2 held possibilities.

As for Keyton/Neb... Really, Mir followed Vazus out before he did. At Mack's urgings she did stop and return, but he was following her lead to start. And since I have more time to look over and post often, I was able to reply with that try to remain hidden. So really, no need to call the guy out on the actions. Keyton might have returned as well, perhaps Neb does not get to look at and post as often. Possum could have ruled that since Mir already went out, the damage was done by her first. *shurgs* It's over and done with now, just adding my two bits.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> ((ooc: According to Wookieepedia, a kybuck can travel up to 90 km per hour (almost 56 miles per hour for the metric-challenged ) Although I am not sure our characters know that. ))



Mack certainly doesn't, but apparently our Jedi does.  Hope he catches him.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> _«The "Let's go get HIM"  (emphasis mine), definitively gave me the impression Mir was going  after the trooper with Keyton. Sloor is suggesting we follow the two for  a while, as everybody is more or less heading in the direction of the  Imperial base._



Funny, Songdragon was on today and did not clear this up.

Mir's action has her following others, so I took that to mean following Verimak and Mack, but it could be Keyton and the speeder.  Dunno for sure.


----------



## Binder Fred

Just got called to do a little last minute traveling for work. I should have internet conection thoughout, but just in case... I'll be back late monday in any event so it's no biggy.

P.S. Oh and congratulations folks! We've just hit the 600 mark in the IC thread!


----------



## perrinmiller

It occurs to me that knowing how close we are getting to leveling up is useful when it comes to using Force Points.  I am pretty sure we left many unused during 1st level and would like to use a few while keeping enough in reserve to save my but from being potentially killed again.

We have had a few encounters again so I am wondering how much XP we have gained.  I am pretty sure we haven't gotten close to leveling up again, but we might be near 2000.  Could we have an update on that?


----------



## possum

You'll be advancing following the completion of the mission.  So, when you're in bad shape in the facility, by all means burn those Force Points.


----------



## perrinmiller

Does that mean we will not advance until we reach a break point, even if we hit enough XP to advance?  Or you don't award the XP until we actually reach the break point (like at the end of a table top gaming session)?

I guess this question is not so much about this game only but a curiosity about your style, possum?  Since I am assuming the answer would hold true for your other game as well.


----------



## possum

I'm mainly on break points for this game, but Fallout will be a little more by the book when it comes to XP.

Right now, I'm working on the Excel map for the next encounter.  Sorry for the holdup guys, but I'm still too cheap to buy Photoshop!


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> [/COLOR]Perception (1d20+9=21); Stealth (1d20+3=12) _Without any bonuses applied.__>>_
> 
> Edit: The Stealth result is 19 with bonuses applied.




I think you mean 14. Mack has an all-temperature cloak (bonus vs extreme weather) while only Mir and Sloor purchased camouflage ponchoes on Alderaan (+5 stealth due to adaptive colouring). Not the same things at all.

EDIT = Unless you're saying you took Mir up on her offer to loan out her poncho?


----------



## perrinmiller

That's what I was wondering about earlier.  I thought we all had camo ponchos.  Not sure why only 2 would have gotten them, that makes no sense.

Since Possum didn't say "no", I was figuring that was the case.  But doesn't matter to me either way.  Personally (player point of view) I would rather fight them for the XP.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> That's what I was wondering about earlier.  I thought we all had camo ponchos.  Not sure why only 2 would have gotten them, that makes no sense.




Well, they didn't come directly from our sponsor. Mir and Sloor actually went shopping for outdoor gear while on Alderaan. Sloor bought heavy boots, gloves, etc and Mir bought one of the ponchoes, which prompted Sloor to buy one of his own. Here is where Sloor bought his, and here is where Mir bought hers (Threads are searchable, you know? Top of the Thread window when you're logged in).


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks, I see where Mir made the suggestion for everyone to get survival gear and listed the stuff OOC.  Then we added our wish lists.  So I would expect everyone would have a camo poncho as she suggested, but at the time I got sidetracked on the resale of certain items that I thought was missing from our loot.

Accordingly Bail Organa arranged for the gear (Which I thought included ponchos and breathing masks if people wanted them) and cut certain items (holoconverter, Sound spounge, jet packs, and explosives).  Speaking of which, who has the Detonite?

Overall, pretty sloppy book keeping on my part.   Explains why I thought I had a poncho though.  But until I went back and looked, I forgot about the detonite.  Sloor have that?

Anyway, some GMs make a us pay for not being specific, others recognize the intent and let it slide.  So I really just need a ruling on this either way.


----------



## Binder Fred

The detonite is in TB's internal storage. I've also noted all four breathing masks in his cargo rack, but you can carry yours if you want instead. Let me know so I can change his inventory.


----------



## perrinmiller

Don't think Mack actually needs a breathing mask with his Stormtrooper armor and helmet.  But it don't hurt to have a spare for the prisoner we are rescuing.

Having been around the block a few times (PbP wise) now since I started this game, I have seen a few different ways some DM/GMs do Initiative. Might I offer a suggestion, Possum.  

In between combats, why don't we each roll 3 Initiatives and you save them in your GM notes or here on the OOC thread. That way we roll them and you don't have to wait for us to roll right before combat starts.  Then after you have used them up, we roll 3 more.

Another question.  How do you feel about using JC 114?


----------



## Binder Fred

Possum, are we missing something for combat to start? Or maybe you're away for the big week-end, in which case: Happy Turkey Day!


----------



## possum

Nope, combat's ready to go right now.  Not a really big weekend for me.  Thanksgiving in America isn't until late November, but happy Thanksgiving for all the Canadians reading this post.


----------



## perrinmiller

I was on a 3-day weekend so I couldn't post until my Monday evening. Sorry.

Any response to my two suggestions?
- Pre-rolling Initiatives
- Jedi Counseling 114

Also are you going to use 1/2 speed for crawling as well?


----------



## possum

Having a pool of initiatives is pretty good.  Please let me know which optional or variant rules in any of the Jedi Counselings that you want.  And yes, half speed to crawl.


----------



## perrinmiller

Personally I have only read JC114.  The multiple second winds and critical care are the big ones.

Here's my three Initiatives for the next three encounters:
Initiatives (1d20+8=26, 1d20+8=23, 1d20+8=11)


----------



## Binder Fred

And here are mine: 1d20=9, 1d20=7, 1d20=3. Looks like Sloor is going to be last for a while yet.


----------



## Binder Fred

Double post.


----------



## Binder Fred

Troopers are next, right?


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> «_I patiently waited for my turn, so I'd appreciate it if you guys let me take it, right?_




Sorry about that, thought it was top of the round.  But then Mack's actions are not dependent on Sloor's either.


----------



## Binder Fred

I think you have two shots available, *Songdragon*, if you count the one from Your Ready Action last turn.


----------



## perrinmiller

Umm, who are we waiting on?  I think this is the longest we have gone without an IC post be anyone, so I hope we are not stalling out.


----------



## Binder Fred

Everybody has posted this round, so next move is from Possum and the troopers. As noted above, technically Songdragon can also take an extra action if she wants to.


----------



## Songdragon

A delay, as far as I read, is that your initiative merely changes to wherever in the initiative I act before my initiative comes up again. Which really does not change anything since I was firing after the troopers.


----------



## Binder Fred

I see what you mean: Mir delayed until she got her answer from the troopers (them firing on Sloor) and then fired herself in that prrevious round. Meaning Mir is now just after (before?) Sloor in the initiative order. Right?


----------



## perrinmiller

Man, I am sorry again, BinderFred.  I keep thinking I am the top of the round and I need to post right away.  Honestly I am not that impatient. 

By all means, lob that grenade and I will edit and change my target to reflect that.  Since it is actually occurring a round ahead, I will probably put in a qualifier on the target to pick off a wounded one.  Up until now I have been pretty much choosing arbitrarily.


----------



## Binder Fred

You _are_ at the top of the round, it's just that the troopers aren't at the bottom.  I've updated my post, by the way, so Mir is next.

EDIT=Forgot to add the Stealth role for TB's and Sloor's movement in my IC post. Now corrected.


----------



## perrinmiller

Top of the round yes, but I keep forgetting that I need to wait for Sloor to finish the previous round. 

I did a minor edit in the Actions spoiler block to reflect his targeting.


----------



## possum

Hey everyone.  Just wanting some honest criticism...

[sblock]






Will this be easier on everyone?  Haven't gotten around to figuring out how to put an alphanumeric grid on it yet, though.[/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller

Great map!

RPTools - Downloads

Try this for Tokens, the tool is easy, just drag and drop, then move the picture around and save.

Then you can insert those pictures into Excel along with your background map.  You can use a grid just like before.  If you upload the background map, I will insert it into an Excel Tact Grid that I use specifically for doing just that.

I will up load it back and you can take it from there.  You will have your great map, new tokens, AND your grid.  Pretty easy actually.


----------



## possum

I didn't create the map, it was a minis game map that a friend scanned for me.  I did, however, find a free image manipulation tool online and figured out that RPGs would be a great way to use it.  I just didn't want to spoil you guys and use a map from later in the adventure.


----------



## perrinmiller

Oh, well you can still insert any picture into that tactical grid Excel sheet and then re-size the image's grid to match the lines for your cells and the copy the cells and upload like an image before.  

But if we have no grid, we can always just give our move orders like this: 1SQ East, 2SQ NE, 1 SQ North.

BTW; Are Songdragon and Nebten going to roll initiatives for Possum to have on file?


----------



## Nebten

Since possum just groups all the bad guys together on the same initiative number, I would propose that we just do group initiative: us vs them. Each roll a d20, flip a coin and then who ever win, goes first then back and forth from that. That way we are not stepping on each others toes and go in the order of who ever posted. That saves time with doing initiative and with having to wait for somebody to go before somebody else can go.


----------



## possum

I am very, very hesitant to do that, Nebten.  I know that it would be easier on some things, but that it would be difficult on others.  Healing, for example.  That's why I'm not going to implement it.

I would like an opinion on a house rule before I do implement that.  I was thinking about going back to the RCR rule of diagonal movement being 1.5 squares instead of the 2 that it currently is.


----------



## perrinmiller

Pre-rolling the Initiatives will speed combat up for the opening round as Possum won't have to wait 24-36 hours RL for the rolls to come in, even if we are all around.  Of course, I am happy with the GM just rolling them for us too. 

I have been trying the grouped initiatives (us vs. them) and found it actually works pretty well for PbP when people are spread around in their posting schedules.  But I am not sure what you mean by healing being difficult, though.  Can you elaborate for me to see if that will cause me issues in other games?  

But honestly, the speed of our game is usually limited to Possum's schedule, not based on waiting for players to post on their initiative count.  With maybe the exception of the times when BinderFred is away doing his thing. 

As for the house rule on diagonal movement, I thought we already had that in place months ago.  Perhaps we forgot.  I do remember Possum vetoed the 5ft step as a Free or Swift Action.


----------



## Nebten

Yah, I don't know what you are getting at possum since we are practically doing group initiatives except the PCs have to go in a certian order while the enemies go all at once (which is actually a good thing). 

BTW, with the map, looks great. If you can't get A1 grid on it, we can do like Miller said and use landmarks or give orders of where we want to go with movement.


----------



## Binder Fred

Re Diagonal movement, we did settle on the 2-1-2-1 method of counting here. That's what Sloor has been using since then, though I don't mind going to 1.5 instead if you want (?).


----------



## possum

All right, forgot that we already ruled on that.  Thanks.  Still, I'd like to keep up the initiative system we have right now.  Thank you all for voicing your opinions, though.


----------



## perrinmiller

I am fine with not changing the Initiative, just wish the others would roll their dice to have them stored. 

But can you tell me about the issue regarding healing with group initiatives?  I am using that method in another game and would appreciate knowing what you are referring to.  Thanks, Possum.


----------



## possum

Come to think of it, healing's not that big of an issue.  I still don't want to change from at least somewhat traditional initiative.


----------



## perrinmiller

Oh, I was hoping you had some insight for me.  No worries then.


----------



## Nebten

Initiative rolls

OK, so the die roller is a bit wonky for this. My next 3 rolls are 20, 11 and 14.


----------



## Songdragon

Initiative Rolls
1d20+8= 15
1d20+8= 9
1d20+8= 23


----------



## perrinmiller

You guys want to discuss tactics?

I was planning to maintain sight on those troopers while you guys flank them from the other side. We might be able to open a door if there is no one in that turbolift area, but as soon as a firefight breaks out, in one of those rooms with an open door, those troopers will come running.  An besides, we are not supposed to know which door leads where.

I think (at least that's how it is played in other games) the doors are sound proof.  So I was hoping that surprise would have cut down those troopers in one round and we could then sneak around easier.

It is a little late now, but is there a way to artificially create fog of war or at least black out unexplored areas on that program you are using Possum?


----------



## Binder Fred

I think we might have a chance to stay undetected if we took out the two guards hand to hand. But weapons fire, perticularly autofire? I have my doubts. Those two troopers are visible from outside as well (see Possum's initial description). Only a matter of time before one of the patrols looks and sees them missing.

I think our best bet is to stay quiet in the main area and use surprise to charge into any room we decide to enter as a group, with TB closing the door behind us as soon as we're through. Overwhelm any resistance we meet as quickly as possible (sticking to single shots?). Repeat.

What do you think?


----------



## Nebten

Yah, i say we just pick a side (left or right) and systematically clear the rooms until we come across a map/computer that can direct us in the right direction. I would like to continue hugging the back wall, so I say we go with the nearest left door.


----------



## perrinmiller

Possum, there are two pieces of information that might be important to this discussion.

1. Can we see the security cams at all?  I would imagine there would be cameras that relay to the control room.  You have already said this back hallway is clear, but did we see any in the other areas yet in the hallway leading to the gun turret?

2. Is there actually windows for the two troopers to look out of for the E-Web cannon, or are they using computer screens for visual?  Bottom line, can the two troopers outside the facility actually see into the gun turret to see if it is manned or not?

Given that we are not supposed to know the layout of the interior, it is kind of hard to determine where I would have gone first in opening the doors.  But moving clockwise would appear to be logical.  Mack will switch to single shot, but I am not a big fan of hand-to-hand unless we have to.


----------



## possum

You can't see any holocams in the sections you've visited.  As for the turret, I'm assuming that they have a small opening in the base itself like WWII-era bunkers, if you've ever played Call of Duty or Medal of Honor.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sloor is waiting for the results of his and TB's perception rolls. Those basically boil down to: can we tell which room is which from the outside? Signs, warnings, door size, design and/or degree of thickness/reinforcement, etc.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Mack swings the barrel of his blaster rifle at the only living target moving.  After hearing him order an attack, Mack shoots him.



Uh, Perrin, two things:

- Since we're in the surprise round, the good doctor has not had time to do anything as of yet (besides being caught doing dastardly experiments on the locals, that is). 

- You do remember the two guards around the corner? As discussed above, I was hoping we could use the surprise round to get in, close the door behind us and actually have a chance of remaining undetected.


----------



## perrinmiller

Dang, you are right.  I was up too late last night and rushed to catch up.  I have family in from out of town and I am really short on time.  I will edit and fix.


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION]; Is the Droid actually hostile, or is the Imp Doctor dead before that happens?

@ The Others; Without being able to communicate with the Felucians anyway, I don't think we can reason with them and the doctor released them to attack us.  Is there a way to herd them out an open door to go after the two troopers in the gun turret area?  Or are we going to just put them out of their misery?


----------



## Binder Fred

Stun them and bind them back on their tables?


----------



## possum

It's possible for you to lure them back to the Stormtroopers, but you'd have to lead them to the gun nest, and risk being shot by them yourselves on top of the angry mutants and med droid chasing after you.

And yes, the override has been triggered and the droid will fight.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks, Possum.

I was actually thinking of just luring them out of the medilab and then slipping back in the other door and let them wander around until they discover the troopers.

But I guess we really don't know IC that they would attack anyone other than us.  I have been assuming that they are crazed and they would attack anything that moves, but that might not be true.

Not sure stunning them is very kind, maybe they need to be put down to end their suffering.  Dunno.


----------



## Binder Fred

As long as there's life, there's hope. 

P.S. The droid probably doesn't have a locked access either, so it can be shut down fairly easily.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> As long as there's life, there's hope.
> 
> P.S. The droid probably doesn't have a locked access either, so it can be shut down fairly easily.



As Mack is next I would like to do this, but with RL time constraints, perhaps BF can elaborate what he means for me. 

Sorry, busy holiday and I will not be able to update IC today, possibly tomorrow neither.

I think Mack was missed earlier, his Reflex is 20.


----------



## Binder Fred

[Sblock=Knowledge(Droids)  DC10 or Mechanics DC10]Most droids, i.e. all those who don't have the Locked Access feature, have their off swift on the outside of their body. They can be shut down with a single successful melee attack roll. Droids *with* locked access, like TB,  have to be rendered disabled or helpless before they can be shutdown that way. 

I think the felucian is definitively the greater threat right now though.[/sblock]


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> TB makes it to the bed and slams the restraints button, locking the raging enemy to the medical bed.  He bellows in rage at his circumstances.



Wohoo! Wasn't sure that was going to work!


----------



## Binder Fred

Hello all,
I'll be going in the field on tuesday up until christmas, so expect slower posting from me for that length of time. AKA the usual.


----------



## perrinmiller

I have a suggestion to our two Force users.  What about Sensing our Surroundings and looking through the walls?


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten said:


> I am not able to look through  walls, per say.



Is Keyton lying?  

Sense Surrounding actually does just that, ignoring total concealment and cover to make a perception check.  That's a UtF DC20 check, Mir can do it by taking a 10.  At least that is how it's working in another game I am playing.


----------



## Nebten

I would not have interupted it like that. The other game must have a pretty liberal GM.


----------



## possum

Actually, yeah, it sounds good.  Actually make a roll, then we'll see if anything comes up.


----------



## perrinmiller

BTW, I leave on a business trip for 4 days out of the country.  I should have Internet, but I might be short on time.  When I get back other RL issues will take away my gaming next weekend, so I might be scarce for the next 7 days.


----------



## Binder Fred

Just noticed we passed the 800 mark o the IC thread. As Sondragon would say: Yay us!


----------



## perrinmiller

Good on us.


----------



## possum

Yeah, and we're getting pretty close to the end of the first module.  I hope you're enjoying it so far.


----------



## perrinmiller

Yep.  This game has the distinguished honor of being my longest running game as a player, here at EnWorld and other PbP sites.

Glad to see that everyone is still here and posting pretty regularly.


----------



## possum

It's not the longest pbp game that I've been a part of, but it is likely the most fun.  Interestingly enough, you're all pretty much at the part that I joined the DoD game that I'm currently playing on a virtual tabletop.  We're almost done with it, and I know that you all will like the latter portions of the adventure path if we're able to last that long.


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries, the Mack-man's not going anywhere. 

I think DR's Republic & Empire game is running longer in RL, but I don't think you can count that as it takes several looong breaks in activity.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey, Sloor managed to beat the troopers on ini! Yeeha.


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> Hey, Sloor managed to beat the troopers on ini! Yeeha.




Be careful with the bragging, you never know what the dice are going to come up with next...


----------



## perrinmiller

Nebten; 
That's a total of 10 on a 4d10.  I would go back to Invis Castle. 

I saw someone run an experiment rolling a 100 times and it was over a point lower than average.  I tried to find that post again, but it got deleted.  Maybe big brother don't want the secret out of the bag.


----------



## Nebten

Its 4d8, but its still poor form.

I had heard that the local roller was lower, but then I also heard that IC rolls high. At least my d20s have been donig better here, but in my 4th ed game I couldn't hit anything all encounter and I'm typically pretty clutch. I thought about it but then again I'm lazy too =v).


----------



## perrinmiller

Do we need to discuss tactics OOC?  I think we are on the same page, but not sure.  

We are planning to be out of sight from the doorway, so the troopers have to enter the room to see us, correct?  Mir's illusion is only to help with that plan, I think.


----------



## Songdragon

Just remember the illusion lasts only 2 rounds... so short lived... Mind Trick is easy too...


----------



## Binder Fred

Sloor's plan is to let them come in, look left, see the "wall", look right, see the bodies and move in to investigate (or just turn that way would be enough). TB triggers the door with his telescopic arm, we quietly slaughter them with the help of surprise and we're good -- until somebody notices them missing from the front door, that is... Sound good?

Firing right as they enter is a sure fire way to get even more troopers coming in, I think (a lot of noise).


----------



## perrinmiller

Okay, so I should move Mack to be out of sight from the doorway, prone and behind cover near the comms console then.

Who is going to initiate the ambush?  Mack once they get into his LOS with a readied attack?


----------



## Nebten

Keyton would like too since he can close the gap and he's more effective in melee. I could ready a charge action to set things off.


----------



## perrinmiller

Works for me, but I hope all readied actions can be timed for simultaneous delivery.


----------



## Binder Fred

The trigger for the ambush should be the closing of the door, I think, since without it we're back to holding a battle "in plain sight", as it were.


----------



## perrinmiller

Maybe Keyton should give the order to TB.  With Mir busy, he can Sense Surroundings and get his Jedi senses on the reinforcements and know how many and where they are moving to so we are properly timed.


----------



## Binder Fred

Works for me.


----------



## Binder Fred

Possum said:
			
		

> OOC: 	Hope no one minded that I rolled Perceptions for you right here. Both Sloor and TB rolled natural 1s



Aaarg! Double nat 20s in my immediate future, I guess.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry for the delay, folks. It's been a series of 12 to 14h days with bad sleep in between for me here, but I'm now back in town for a while and should be able to catch up today or tomorrow at the latest. Again, sorry about this.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> As the vote is apparently two in favor of 'play it by ear and hope for the best', Sloor will use a force point to force the issue, as previously discussed. I really do feel it's our best chance of success.



  Actually, you don't need to waste a FP, since we have only been discussing it 1-2RL, and I don't think we really have a fundamental disagreement.


----------



## perrinmiller

Actually, I realize that the source material doesn't have the outside troopers coming in, but I do find that unrealistic and think it should be prevented against in RPing.

Also we need to blow up the facility before we leave, so contacting the ship might be premature since we haven't released the Admiral yet.  But I did it anyway since that appeared to be the consensus.  Then we rescue the Admiral first.  We might even be able to use our regular commlinks, we haven't even tried that yet.

I still intend to clear out the facility of all the bad guys and I suggest we drag the troopers' armor along so we can get some better gear.  When we do get picked up we won't have to carry it very far.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> OOC: If you're asking about the medbay gurney's,  they're pretty much bolted to the ground.  Let's say that there is one  that's movable (and working) in the med bay itself.  It can't carry more  than an average weighted human male, though.



You said there was a repulsor sled, but we can take and use a gurney too. 

The question I was referring to not being answered yet were if Mack sees anything in the gun turret area.  Mack took a look and I did not want to assume it was no longer manned.  I am assuming there is no one in the hallway outside the comms room.


----------



## Binder Fred

I think we've got initiative for everybody. Are we waiting for anything else?


----------



## perrinmiller

Just waiting on Possum.  I don't think he has been on-line these past few days though.


----------



## Binder Fred

Possum said:
			
		

> Felucian 11 14/23




16 hp, I think. These are stun knuckles, doing 2d6 stun (+3 str +1 dam bonus). Since I rolled a 5, that makes it (5/2)+4=7 damage... Right?


----------



## possum

Congrats everyone on 1000 posts, as well as finishing the final encounter of the first module.  We'll finish up the RP for this module in the current thread and then move on to another thread for the second module.  Since we're pretty much done with rolling, I believe, go ahead and level your characters up to 3.

It's been fun, everyone!


----------



## perrinmiller

Wost definitely.  I am impressed that we are all still together.  That is pretty rare.  Here's to reaching 1000 on the next module! {clink}

Edit: I will post IC later.


----------



## Binder Fred

{clink!} 

I did have fun on this module. Nice interactions, some very well-written posts, good posting rate, steady, commited players and GM, what's not to like? Some - minor - things should ideally be addressed in the next module though. 

One of those things is the challenge level. Sure we plan well and our teamwork is improving, but I think everone can agree that last battle was sort of anticlimactic. Overall, did anyone seriously think we could loose/be forced to retreat at any point of a combat scene already in progress? (well, there was the bit where Switche's bodyguards almost changed sides on us, granted. That could have turned nasty real quick). They didn't though and we've pretty much breezed through every combat since then... Bail needs to give us jobs that are up to our extreme level of competence 

The other point has been mentionned by Nebten and Perrin before. It's the *very* linear nature of the module design. Player actions seen to matter little to what's going to happen next, be it for the start of combat conditions of a perticular scene or what the next scene is going to be. Frankly, I wouldn't mind so much if it all held together well to make a good story. Some of the things we're told and the way (some of the) NPCs react just don't make much sense to me though (at this point, Sloor is suppossing the base commander was either insane, staggeringly incompetent and/or under severe outside pressure to act the way he did, possibly a mix of the three). Even base floorplans are apparenlty exercises in linear design: instead of putting in the rooms that *should* be in a realistically operating base, the designers have apparently created completely independant set pieces and placed them there so the players can trigger them individually, with little apparent interaction between rooms. To sum it all up, I've had twitches of that rail-roady feeling here and there during the campaign, which I find acceptable in a game that's trying to give us a "movie" feel, but that base - that base did not give me the feeling of being in a "real", interactive world at all. It... coddled us, and failed to justify that coddling IC. That's bad. If the same guy designed the later modules, I think they need to be gone through with a reality-check knife and a big red pen.

... Hope that wasn't too harsh?


----------



## possum

No, not too harsh at all.  Those are some legitimate problems.  I'll be trying to up the challenge level a bit in later modules.

And you're right, the level design does lean a bit on the linear side.


----------



## Songdragon

I would like to say that I enjoyed playing with everyone. We seem to have a nice mix of people both in and out of character.

One concern I have is having such a high Use the Force skill check. +13. I know that some GMs have issues with characters that lean more towards Force abilities (Force Wizards). So what I am asking of you all, is the having the Skill Focus (Use the Force) a little over the top?  While I have rolled low on occasion, most times roll a UtF check is to see how high I can roll rather then to see if it merely succeeds. There does not seem to be challenge with a +13 to a skill, at level 2. Let me know what you all think please? I would be willing to change the Skill Focus, GM allowing.

Question for armor... I am interested in the Tracker Vest in the Clone Wars book, it is light armor, which I can get the feat for, but if I wore the stuff, I could not use my level for my Ref Def, correct? I would need the Soldier Talent  Armored Defense? Is there any way to get such a vest that is not armor?

[sblock=Leveling Ideas]Not sure about class... Scoundrel or Solider

Feat: Force Training (Mind Shard, Vital Transfer, Rebuke)
Talent: Force Harmony[/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller

Well, the module is what it is.  I have heard that it gets harder as you go too and perhaps it is not so linear either, dunno. I would not change the skill on Mir.  If we start getting bad guys that remember us, she will find that using her Force powers will make her a target from stormtroopers on principle.

The hard part for the GM is letting us poke holes at the boundary of the  reservation and then guide us back onto it without us knowing it. 

Having more difficult encounters will be fun, but we really need a way to heal ourselves up better.  Hopefully with the loot, we can upgrade TB to do surgery.

I am still thinking on level up choices, sticking with Soldier-3.  Maybe Cover Fire for Talent and Deadeye Shot for a Feat.  I would like to retrain the Pilot skill and Vehicular Combat if that is not not going to be used in the campaign.  I can either take Endurance or Treat injury instead.  If it helps I would be willing to Take Surgical Expertise and Skill Focus Treat Injury and be a combat medic if we cannot get that out of TB.


----------



## Songdragon

The Treat Injury skill was something I was going to look at at 4th level, as Mir will level and adding a point into Int gives her another skill. But if you want too take it and go that far with it, I know Mir will not have the feats to be 'that' good.

Just saying... If you want something else, feel free as well.


----------



## perrinmiller

I was looking at my character from DT's game and comparing what I did with possibilities here.  Concept wise, I don't see Mack as the medic type, but I am willing to adjust.  But he is already covering the Mechanics and Use Computer though.  Still need a ruling on retraining from possum or the point becomes moot. 

Perhaps the best thing for now, if Mir is going to take Treat Injury is to get a surgical kit and program TB.  Even if the droid cannot carry it, he could use it if someone else does.

Mack can also go for Heavy Weapons instead. 

As for loot, we need someone that is good at haggling to get us a good price on reselling that stuff.  There are some weapon and armor upgrades we can probably afford.  Everyone can get Improved Accuracy added to their weapons.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> As for loot, we need someone that is good at haggling to get us a good price on reselling that stuff.



Gee, who could you be refering to.


----------



## perrinmiller

Haggle baby, haggle!


----------



## Binder Fred

Seeing our combat-heavy adventures, I'm thinking of taking a level of Soldier. Get a vibro-axe ("vibro-mace"?) and keep one of the carbines to use on autofire. TB upgrades could include tech and/or slicing. Upping TB's Treat Injury skill'll require upping his Wis score, but a surgery kit would definitively be nice, perticularly if we can get a semi-permanent mobile base or something... What do you guys think?


----------



## Songdragon

Possum and everyone...

My question about being too overpowered with the skill focus in use the force. The +13 does make many abilities rather simple and basically guaranteed to work. Just asking is all.


----------



## possum

Songdragon said:


> I would like to say that I enjoyed playing with everyone. We seem to have a nice mix of people both in and out of character.
> 
> One concern I have is having such a high Use the Force skill check. +13. I know that some GMs have issues with characters that lean more towards Force abilities (Force Wizards). So what I am asking of you all, is the having the Skill Focus (Use the Force) a little over the top?  While I have rolled low on occasion, most times roll a UtF check is to see how high I can roll rather then to see if it merely succeeds. There does not seem to be challenge with a +13 to a skill, at level 2. Let me know what you all think please? I would be willing to change the Skill Focus, GM allowing.
> 
> Question for armor... I am interested in the Tracker Vest in the Clone Wars book, it is light armor, which I can get the feat for, but if I wore the stuff, I could not use my level for my Ref Def, correct? I would need the Soldier Talent  Armored Defense? Is there any way to get such a vest that is not armor?
> 
> [sblock=Leveling Ideas]Not sure about class... Scoundrel or Solider
> 
> Feat: Force Training (Mind Shard, Vital Transfer, Rebuke)
> Talent: Force Harmony[/sblock]




Skill Focus: Personally, it's up to you.  Yes, it does tend to get a little overpowered at earlier levels, but it does eventually plateau once you get to later levels.  You could always retrain and then get the feat again at a later date.

Armor: Without the Armored Defense feat, you do lose your level bonus to your Reflex defense.  With it, you merely get the choice of which bonus to use.  Improved lets you take both your level and half of the armor bonus.

As for everyone, I'm adding a new "rule" when it comes to your statblocks.  For ease of looking stuff up, please list the book and page number for what non-core talents, feats, equipment, etc that you have.  I.E. Tracker Utility Vest (CW 64).  It'll help both you and me.


----------



## perrinmiller

Maybe I missed the answer to this, but is retraining going to be allowed?  Does it also include changing a trained skill?

Edits:

@SD, well at 3rd level you are starting to become a journeyman, skilled in the use of the Force.  Somethings should be a piece of cake.

@BF, Mack has tech skills and use computer, so far they have been good enough and Mack can get another Interface Visor to boost Use Comp some more.  Surgery is our weakness in skill sets.  But with a kit, TB should be able to handle it.  We can program him with Surgical experience maybe as well and perhaps get him Knowledge Life Sciences.  I haven't looked up about doing this stuff yet, but we should make sure we have the droid properly programmed based on what we have learned for far.

Sounds fine on taking Soldier level to increase combat power.  Not sure what you mean about mobile base though to properly answer that one.  But before we forget, we have that hover sled from earlier that is still on Alderaan.  If we cannot use it, we should get money for it.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Maybe I missed the answer to this, but is retraining going to be allowed?  Does it also include changing a trained skill?




Yes, retraining is allowed, just be reasonable about it.  As for trained skills, I'm hesitant on allowing that.


----------



## perrinmiller

Well I am just thinking about the Pilot skill.  We have not had a need for it and unless this campaign has starship combat down the road we probably won't.  I will the decision up to you if I should keep it. 

If it is wasted then I would like to change it as I posted earlier.


----------



## possum

Yeah, the pilot skill turns out to be needed a little later in the series.


----------



## perrinmiller

Mack Granger :: (Read-Only) - Myth-Weavers

I updated my character sheet.  How much XP do we have now?

Changes:
Took Soldier level 3
+1 Destiny Point
Reset FP to 6
+8 HP
+1 BAB
+1 Fort
+1 Will
(Reflex stayed the same since armor is better than level.)
Retrained Vehicle Combat to Running Attack
Talent: Cover Fire
General Feat: Quick Draw


----------



## Songdragon

Scoundrel (level 1, 3rd level character)
5 hit points
+1 Will Saves
Force Points 6
Destiny Point +1

Feat: Point Blank Shot and Force Training

Talent: Force Harmony (activate talents that require Force points, without using a force point, 1/encounter) (p 16, Jedi Academy Training Manuel)

Force Powers: Mind Shard (p 28, Jedi Academy Training Manuel), Rebuke, Vital Transfer


----------



## Binder Fred

Emergency back and forth to the field to tie up some loose ends. Back now, but kinda tired. Should have a post for you guys tomorrow though.


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries mate, I think it is your turn in IC action anyway, so I will hold off posting again.


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION];
If you are ready to start the new IC thread for chapter 2, we can as far as I am concerned.  The role-playing that Mack and Sloor are doing can continue separately on the old one.  I think the others are ready to continue, and I don't feel that we need to hold things up.


----------



## Binder Fred

No objections here.


----------



## perrinmiller

Oh, I saw that the Chapter 2 IC thread is up and it jumps forward in time for 2 weeks.

I got no problem skipping ahead, but we will need some closure on the current events in Chapter 1.  We are needing to get paid and we have some loot to deal with.

Are we going to do this off-camera?


----------



## possum

We'll finish it up in chapter 1 once Mack and Sloor's talk is done.  I just did the second right now to give you all a kind of preview, as well as the option of jumping right in if you wish.


----------



## perrinmiller

Well, rather than hold things up, we can re-continue it later.  I foresee another waiting period after we really reach the break point.  Sloor and Mack can solve the problems of the galaxy over some homemade hooch that we can get from some engineering mugs aboard the frigate.


----------



## Songdragon

Over the two weeks that have past... was there time to get upgrades or some new equipment? Or are we doing that in the new thread?

Also, I completely forgot how much we got from the first part of Traitor's Gambit and how much we were getting for retrieving the Admiral?


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> Over the two weeks that have past... was there time to get upgrades or some new equipment? Or are we doing that in the new thread?



I think this is what Possum meant by continuing farther in the Ch 1 IC thread.  We haven't docked.


----------



## Binder Fred

Don't know what's left in your pockets from the first half, but we got 500 off Maya plus 1300 each from selling the gear. 

We were promised 2000 each for the Felucian run. Also known as "Frekking cheap," quoth the Sloor.


----------



## Nebten

Hey gang. I'm going to pull out of the campaign. I am not enjoying the system as much as I thought I would as a player. Before this event, I GM'ed a summer of SWSA before the game came apart. I had a great time then, but it didn't really translate as a player now. Here I never really got into the flow of things and quite honestly, I don't like the Jedi class. Plus when they stopped producing SWSA products, that took the wind out of my sails for the system too.

In any case, I hope you guys enjoy the next chapter and beyond.

~Neb


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry to see 'Baton Boy' go.  Take care Neb.

So any ideas on who to ask to join us?  It would appear to be similar situation as the other game.  Wanna ask Toasterferret?  He plays with Song and I in _A Soul Indiscretion_, maybe he would like to play.

I remember the 2000cr we were promised.  Since we also left behind that military grade hover sled, we should get paid for that too.  I have recorded on my sheet the correct balance on my cred stick before the mission and Mack owes Bael 400cr.


----------



## possum

Nebten said:


> Hey gang. I'm going to pull out of the campaign. I am not enjoying the system as much as I thought I would as a player. Before this event, I GM'ed a summer of SWSA before the game came apart. I had a great time then, but it didn't really translate as a player now. Here I never really got into the flow of things and quite honestly, I don't like the Jedi class. Plus when they stopped producing SWSA products, that took the wind out of my sails for the system too.
> 
> In any case, I hope you guys enjoy the next chapter and beyond.
> 
> ~Neb




I hate to see you go, Nebten.  It was fun having you play.  Thanks for the honesty, though, as well as the notice.


----------



## toasterferret

Hi all, Perrin PN'd me about you guys losing a player and needing another.  I just figured I would come in and post my interest.  

I play with Perrin and Songdragon over in  Living Pathfinder, and would love to get in on some more games.

I can roll up anything you might be missing, Ive got lots of great character ideas floating around my head, so just let me know!


----------



## Songdragon

Heya TF...

At present we have...

*Sloor Sanbraiz* (Binder Fred) a Besalisk Scoundrel/Solider (Seems to mix it up in melee a a lot. Just got himself a vibro-mace) He is also our Face.

*TB* - Droid - used mainly for our first aid. Great commentary on organics (technically Sloor's)

*Mack Granger* (PerrinMiller) a human Solider (All about ranged combat) He has our tech skills (mechanics and computer use)

*Mir Malone* (Songdragon) human Scout/Scoundrel (main Force-User and has some ranged usefulness) She has many force powers and the Illusion talent which has been helpful. (( I plan to pick up Treat Injury next level))

*Kyton* was the Jedi in our group (player has decided that the system was not working for him and has moved on... *waves to Nebtn if he stops by*)


We have just completed our mission and are not on a Nebulon-B frigate, the Resurgence. Have a 2 weeks downtime... and hope to pick things up again here soon.

As a group we work well enough together, even when the characters have some disagreements. But it is some good RPing. 

I cannot speak for Possum, but I would be happy to have you along with us.

(The campaign is the Dawn of Defiance series of mods... so we have been using the RULES for that campaign, and you can use other Saga books, just note the book and page you are using for your character, to make it easier on our GM.)


----------



## possum

Songdragon said:


> Heya TF...
> 
> At present we have...
> 
> *Sloor Sanbraiz* (Binder Fred) a Besalisk Scoundrel/Solider (Seems to mix it up in melee a a lot. Just got himself a vibro-mace) He is also our Face.
> 
> *TB* - Droid - used mainly for our first aid. Great commentary on organics (technically Sloor's)
> 
> *Mack Granger* (PerrinMiller) a human Solider (All about ranged combat) He has our tech skills (mechanics and computer use)
> 
> *Mir Malone* (Songdragon) human Scout/Scoundrel (main Force-User and has some ranged usefulness) She has many force powers and the Illusion talent which has been helpful. (( I plan to pick up Treat Injury next level))
> 
> *Kyton* was the Jedi in our group (player has decided that the system was not working for him and has moved on... *waves to Nebtn if he stops by*)
> 
> 
> We have just completed our mission and are not on a Nebulon-B frigate, the Resurgence. Have a 2 weeks downtime... and hope to pick things up again here soon.
> 
> As a group we work well enough together, even when the characters have some disagreements. But it is some good RPing.
> 
> I cannot speak for Possum, but I would be happy to have you along with us.
> 
> (The campaign is the Dawn of Defiance series of mods... so we have been using the RULES for that campaign, and you can use other Saga books, just note the book and page you are using for your character, to make it easier on our GM.)




Thanks, Songdragon, for the summary.  It's been a little hectic week for me, workwise.  I'd like to see, from you toasterferret, is a third level character.  While the others aren't on the Nebulon-B, you are, for some reason or the other.  Give me a writeup of what you want your character to be.


----------



## toasterferret

I will have it to you late tomorrow evening.  

Thanks for the prompt responses everyone!


----------



## perrinmiller

If you want some opinions TF, just let us know.

I think we each earned about 2000cr from the 1st mission and 2000cr + loot from the second. So you should have a decent amount of cash to work with.


----------



## toasterferret

Sounds great!  My preliminary idea is a watchcircle initiate jedi consular, focused around using the farseeing power to grant rerolls on attk rolls to the party.

Could change though.


----------



## perrinmiller

Not familiar with that idea.  Still using a lightsaber and focusing on melee combat?


----------



## Songdragon

Perrin... It is from Knights of the Old Republic book... pg 25. In the Consular Talents.

Reviews I have read of the Watch Circle Initiate (which is a talent you need for the rest of the talents)... are so-so... Some like it, while others are not so hot on the idea. I guess it all depends what you want to do as a Jedi. In Visionary Attack talent, you give up farseeing in your force suit to allow reroll of an attack if your UtF check is above the enemy's Will save. And Visionary Defense gives you a +5 to Ref defense if you do similar above.

Interesting concept, pricey in talents... and you would need several farseeing powers in your suite to make it worth while.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there, ToasterFerret, just wanted to say *hi* to the new guy on the block. <waves>


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there folks!

Took Soldier level 1:
Reset FP to 6
+8 HP
+1 BAB
+1 Fort
+1 Will
+1 Ref
Talent: Devastating Attack
3rd level Feat: Mighty Swing (with a _'multiple strike' _in-game SFX)
Soldier Begining Feat: 

Thing I'd like a ruling for, please: For the Soldier begining feat, I got to admit that neither armor training nor range weapon training really appeal to me as feats suitable for Sloor. Could I take *Advanced Melee WP* instead?


----------



## Songdragon

I hear you Binder... The solider starting feats do not do too much for someone that is ranged or does not want me be ranged. I have wondered too myself why AP: Advanced Weapons is not a solider thing, but then realize that not all soldiers are from technological places. But the nice thing about a campaign, is that you can always ask a GM for other options...  I know I would even consider Martial Arts I.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> *TB* - Droid - used mainly for our first aid. Great commentary on organics (technically Sloor's)



"Whatdaya mean_ 'technically'_??? I gawt the (only slightly forged) papers right here!" 

The Rogue's Gallery is over here, by the way.


----------



## toasterferret

I actually think I'm going to go for a mobile, dual wielding Jedi, instead of my earlier idea.  The watchcircle initiate would be better suited for an all jedi party, where taking a stack of foreseeing powers wouldnt cripple the force abilities of the group and party support is more of a commodity.  

So here's that write up you asked for:

Basic idea is a Human Jedi padawan, who had been focusing on the Makashi lightsaber form, who narrowly escaped Order 66.  She would focus on mobility, and multiple attacks with dual sabers.  Talents by third level would be block and deflect, with her feats being weapon finesse, skill focus (utf), and dual weapon mastery 1.  

Should I make up a character sheet, or would you prefer a different character concept?


----------



## perrinmiller

I say go for it.  We are allowed on Jedi in the party and with Keyton's departure the slot is open.

I take it, that you are staying for this one instead of the other one.  Probably a better game in the long run with our track record.

I use Myth-weavers, but also put the character sheet in text and link in the rogue's gallery too.


----------



## perrinmiller

List of loot (Value in credits) and credits coming our way
1x Aratech 64 Y Swift 3 Repulsor Sled (8,000cr) -> Keep?
4x Suits of Storm Trooper Armor (32,000cr)
4x Utility Belts (400cr)
4x Blaster Carbines (3,600cr) (Sloor is keeping one, but Mack is putting his on the pile)
8x Blaster Pistols (4,000cr)
7x Medpacs (700cr) -> Keep
1x Med-kit (600cr) -> Keep
1x Box of Stim Packs (???) -> Keep
1x Repulsor pad (200cr) -> Keep

I think we should keep the repulsor pad for carrying loot maybe?
Keep the med-kit and the box of Stim Packs

Any reason to keep the stormtrooper armor? (I think not, but we can recalculate if necessary)

Estimated value of resale at 50% = 20,000cr
-5,000cr to buy out Keyton = 15,000cr

That is 5,000cr each, but I think we should pay for upgrades to TB first before dividing up the spoils.
Surgery Kit -1000cr
Medical Interface Visor (KotOR) -1500cr

Plus some items that maybe should be in the group, but not owned by anyone one person:
Vid-vox Scrambler (galaxy of intrigue pg66) - 3400cr
Veridicator  (galaxy of intrigue pg66) - 4000cr

This would reduce treasury to 5100cr


----------



## possum

toasterferret: Sounds like a good concept, not quite sure why you're on the Nebulon-B at the moment, but I'm sure you will convince me.  What I truly require is a character sheet w/ background posted on this thread, and then it in the Dramatis Personae if it's accepted.  You may use Myth Weavers to help you and as a backup, I use it, too.

Perrinmiller: Sounds about right.


----------



## perrinmiller

Toasterferret:  Maybe your guy is on the ship, sent covertly by that Jedi back on Alderaan to be of use on these covert missions, but also to get him out from under foot and away from Bael and the Empire.  Maybe no one else knows he is a Jedi until Mir discovers him.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sole survivor from another of Bail's "troubleshooting" team? Would explain Bail's rush to hire new blood and launch them at the felucian problem: his planned team for the mission being down unexpectedly? In that scenario, TF's character could have a deeper/longer understanding of the Rebellion effort (as lead by Bail), and maybe even a personnal/family connection to that worthy?


----------



## toasterferret

Good ideas guys!

Sorry it's taking me so long to get the sheet together, I'm smack dab in the middle of midterms this week, as well as working two jobs.  Tonight or tomorrow at the latest.


----------



## possum

Don't worry, as my latest topic says, my posting for probably the next week will be a little sporadic.


----------



## toasterferret

Ok, here is the preliminary sheet.  I left off equipment until i get a hard total that I can spend.

History should be up tomorrow.

Darius Thran

Sorry for the delay, last few days have been pretty crazy and I haven't been home much to post.

Backstory:  Darius narrowly escaped Order 66, but his Jedi Master, Master Kwon Denasi was not so lucky.  Darius was out on a lone scouting assignment when the order came down, and after seeing his master murdered at the hands of the clones, he siezed his opportunity during the confusion to slip away.  He snuck aboard and stowed away on a freighter vessel bound for Alderan.   Darius was desperate, but remembered Senator Bail from a previous assignment he and his master were on.  They had provided security for Senator Organa during an assassination scare, so he knew the senator was likely the one person left in the Galaxy that he could count on the help him obtain a new identity and blend into the crowd.  

Senator Organa remembered the young jedi, and quickly set him up with a new identity as a mercenary, then promptly employed him.  During his briefing, he was told that a team had been sent out to retrieve a VIP from a prison camp on Felucia, and Darius would be joining them once they rendezvoused aboard the _Resurgence_.

Should I assume my starting credits are normal starting credits plus the 5000 credit share the rest of the party got from the last mission, or is there a different number for me?


----------



## Binder Fred

Just FYI, I'm waiting for a response from Songdragon to the Ror Roogak comment and from Possum/Varth on the impact of this on other imperial officers. Aside from that, I think we're ready about for the meeting with the good captain (and eventually Darius). Right?


----------



## perrinmiller

I think Possum is still out from moving.  Hasn't checked back in yet.

re: Treasury
Current value will be *8100cr* after not buying a veridicator and buying the expansion module for TB.  Plus we still have that sled at 8000cr value (4000cr resale).

Then we each get our 2000cr payments. Rough wealth gained up to now is roughly 9500cr each based on what we paid out for Keyton.

However, Darius would start with max credits for 1st level. But to take part in the group's shared assets would require some buy-in from that 9500cr.  Basically whatever the pay-out is (when we do that) subtracted from 5000cr. Roughly just over 2000cr. 

By not worrying about every little credit, I think Darius can start with maximum starting credits + 7000cr to be on par with the rest of us and we can consider his character included as an equal share of loot still kept that will be sold later (i.e. Hover sled).


----------



## toasterferret

Thanks Perrin, I'll use that number unless Possum comes in and tells me otherwise, but I might as well have something down that I can fix later.


----------



## Songdragon

TF... not sure about what you will get for credits beyond starting funds. I know the share was from the goods and such that were acquired from the first adventure, so do not see your Jedi getting any of that. That is not to stay that Possum might not give you something extra. Just ask for what you think Darius might start with.

Binder, I believe Possum mentioned his posting being sporadic for the last week.


----------



## toasterferret

I think what Perrin was talking about wasn't Darius getting a cut, but the average wealth by character so that I could start off on en even footing credit-wise.   I'll just run with that figure for now and change it if I have to.  That way at least I can finish the Character sheet.


----------



## perrinmiller

That is correct, not really a cut just an equivalent amount of wealth.  The buy-in adjustment is to administratively allow him to share the expenses of the party items that came out of our loot so we don't have to track things separately.

It might be confusing, but I think TF gets it.  I spend a lot of time dealing with party Treasuries in D&D so it makes sense to me and is fair all around.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> I think Possum is still out from moving.  Hasn't checked back in yet.
> 
> re: Treasury
> Current value will be *8100cr* after not buying a veridicator and buying the expansion module for TB.  Plus we still have that sled at 8000cr value (4000cr resale).
> 
> Then we each get our 2000cr payments. Rough wealth gained up to now is roughly 9500cr each based on what we paid out for Keyton.
> 
> However, Darius would start with max credits for 1st level. But to take part in the group's shared assets would require some buy-in from that 9500cr.  Basically whatever the pay-out is (when we do that) subtracted from 5000cr. Roughly just over 2000cr.
> 
> By not worrying about every little credit, I think Darius can start with maximum starting credits + 7000cr to be on par with the rest of us and we can consider his character included as an equal share of loot still kept that will be sold later (i.e. Hover sled).




Yeah, I am.  Right now, I'm posting on a library computer.  I got my computer hooked up last night, but the phone jack (still on dialup) wasn't working.  It may get fixed today, but no promises.  Sorry for the lengthy delay, everyone, I honestly thought that it wouldn't take this long.


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries mate.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there, folks! I have some vacation time coming up so I'll be away from my computer from sunday to thursday (we're going to a cabin in the woods). Feel free to NPC Sloor and TB if need be.


----------



## possum

And, I'm back.  Thanks for the patience, everyone.


----------



## Songdragon

Yay! Good to have you back Possum.


----------



## Binder Fred

What she said.  

With my usual perfect timing I've fallen sick as a dog, so I'm still here as well (headache, muscle aches and all ). Life just sucks sometimes...


----------



## perrinmiller

Man, that sucks BF. Take care.

I think we are just waiting on approval of TF's character and a GM update when Possum finds the time.  Perhaps you will be better by then, eh?


----------



## possum

toasterferret said:


> Ok, here is the preliminary sheet.  I left off equipment until i get a hard total that I can spend.
> 
> History should be up tomorrow.
> 
> Darius Thran
> 
> Sorry for the delay, last few days have been pretty crazy and I haven't been home much to post.
> 
> Backstory:  Darius narrowly escaped Order 66, but his Jedi Master, Master Kwon Denasi was not so lucky.  Darius was out on a lone scouting assignment when the order came down, and after seeing his master murdered at the hands of the clones, he siezed his opportunity during the confusion to slip away.  He snuck aboard and stowed away on a freighter vessel bound for Alderan.   Darius was desperate, but remembered Senator Bail from a previous assignment he and his master were on.  They had provided security for Senator Organa during an assassination scare, so he knew the senator was likely the one person left in the Galaxy that he could count on the help him obtain a new identity and blend into the crowd.
> 
> Senator Organa remembered the young jedi, and quickly set him up with a new identity as a mercenary, then promptly employed him.  During his briefing, he was told that a team had been sent out to retrieve a VIP from a prison camp on Felucia, and Darius would be joining them once they rendezvoused aboard the _Resurgence_.
> 
> Should I assume my starting credits are normal starting credits plus the 5000 credit share the rest of the party got from the last mission, or is there a different number for me?




Character looks good.  I'm going by the RCR Hero's Guide and you'll have 3000 credits to work with.  Add 1k to it to balance the party a little bit.

And I hope you get to feeling better, Binder Fred


----------



## perrinmiller

Are we going to get an IC update soon?  Or are we waiting for Darius to be fully ready?


----------



## perrinmiller

*OOC:*


Hey all, the earthquake hit east of Tokyo where I work. I was in a Skyscraper at the time and it was NOT fun. Internet is spotty but appears to be okay from my iPhone, but not my office. So my schedule is going to FUBAR'd. It is after 1:00am and I am stuck at my office because the commuter trains are all stopped until the morning at least. I will likely not be able to sleep as aftershocks keep rocking the place every 20-30 minutes. Freaking annoying. So, I have time to do gaming, but the sites won’t load.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> *OOC:*
> 
> 
> Hey all, the earthquake hit east of Tokyo where I work. I was in a Skyscraper at the time and it was NOT fun. Internet is spotty but appears to be okay from my iPhone, but not my office. So my schedule is going to FUBAR'd. It is after 1:00am and I am stuck at my office because the commuter trains are all stopped until the morning at least. I will likely not be able to sleep as aftershocks keep rocking the place every 20-30 minutes. Freaking annoying. So, I have time to do gaming, but the sites won’t load.




Yeah, I heard about that, but I wasn't able to get a lot of details.  Glad you're doing okay.  Just join back in when you're able, I'm pretty sure all of us understand.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hang in there, Perrin!


----------



## Binder Fred

Alright! I'm back home and sort of, kind of past the whole caughing thing (yeah!). How are *you* doing, Perrin?

FYI, as a player I'm waiting for and answer to the bit below from ex-admiral Varth, and then I'm ready kick off chapter two in style!



Binder Fred said:


> “Saw you think the rebellian has *a chance* awf winning this thing then? Your fellaw awfficers turning awer way when we shawve the evidence in their frekking face maybe?” Some people are squeamish that way.


----------



## perrinmiller

Hey guys, I am doing fine and have still been able to post everyday in other games.  Tokyo still has worries about aftershocks, but the little tremors are no longer so frequent.  I only remember a few yesterday, but we are on alert for a significant quake by Thursday or Friday.  With the settling down of the aftershocks, the probability is decreasing though.

Public transportation and power shortages are not likely to improve in the near term (I am suppose to have a scheduled blackout in my area from 18:30-22:30 daily, but it got canceled yesterday) and I am working from home again today and tomorrow.

The biggest worry now is the nuclear reactor meltdowns and things are still pretty uncertain.  I am pretty far away from there, but we have been told to stay inside in the event of a meltdown to avoid potential radiation contamination anyway.  The news on CNN is pretty much all that's available to us here as well, so some of you know as much as I do on that situation.

But enough of that... Let's play!  Can we get Darius in the game and move on to Chapter Two?  We can wrap up the buying and selling OOC.


----------



## Nebten

Yah, a little meltdown never hurt anybody. I did think of ya when I heard about everything going on in Japan Perrin. I'm glad that you aren your family are fine and you are still gamin' .


----------



## perrinmiller

Hey All,

I have had enough.  I have plane tickets to leave Tokyo in the morning  and I am taking my family (even my in-laws) stateside.  I will likely be  back on-line in about 2-3 days, once I arrive, what else am I going to  do with myself.

Wish me luck and I hope to return soon.   

PM


----------



## possum

Good luck, Perrin.


----------



## Songdragon

I asked TF about playing... and he is still very into RPing with us, but has been busy. It looks like most folks have been busy the last few weeks.

TF, you may want to post Darius' character sheet over in the  http://www.enworld.org/forum/rogues-gallery/273066-hayabusas-dawn-defiance-dramatis-personae.html

Hope to be starting the next part of the DoD mods here soon


----------



## toasterferret

ok, have the character sheet up, but I will be out of town until monday and may not be able to post this weekend.


Thanks for being patient everyone!


----------



## perrinmiller

I am back on-line, see this post.


----------



## possum

Welcome back, I'm glad everything went smooth.

TF: Welcome aboard.


----------



## Songdragon

Sooo... We ready to start then? *nudge, nudge*


----------



## perrinmiller

I think we are waiting on Possum to tell us about the equipment handling and upgrades.  It all seems reasonable if they are stocked decently.  Mack plans to have some grenades as normal arsenal from now on if possible too.

Then we need an inject of TF's new character, correct?

And I thought we were called to a meeting with the Captain, and the purpose of it was no revealed yet.

So... Possum, I think we are waiting on you for multiple things.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> I think we are waiting on Possum to tell us about the equipment handling and upgrades.  It all seems reasonable if they are stocked decently.  Mack plans to have some grenades as normal arsenal from now on if possible too.
> 
> Then we need an inject of TF's new character, correct?
> 
> And I thought we were called to a meeting with the Captain, and the purpose of it was no revealed yet.
> 
> So... Possum, I think we are waiting on you for multiple things.




Well, pretty much any upgrades are possible, just tell me about them and I'll give the final yes or no on whether they can be done aboard the ship.  TF's character will first be introduced at the meeting, and that's technically part of the second module.


----------



## Binder Fred

*Sloor upgrades:*
Vibro-axe (Ojom mace) - 500cr
Detonite X 3 - 500cr each
Ion grenade X 3 - 750cr
Stun grenades X 3 - 750cr
*
TB upgrades:*
+3 Str boost (for carrying stuff) - 3000cr
Surgery Kit -1000cr
Surgical Expertise module - 1000cr
Mechanics skill - 500cr
Use Computer skill - 500cr
Comm Jammer- 5000cr (SGtD) + 2 Int - 2000cr
Trade Hover for Flight - 3600cr

Medical Interface Visor (KotOR) -1500cr
Vid-vox Scrambler (galaxy of intrigue pg66) - 3400cr


----------



## perrinmiller

This needs some trimming as our Treasury only has 15000cr in it before we start upgrading TB.

Mack has both Mechanics and Use Computer.  But he can program them so the cost should be nothing for those.
Minimum cost for upgrades:
3000cr - Str Boost (assuming that is necessary)
1000cr - Surgical Kit
1000cr - Surgical expertise Module
1500cr - Medical Interface Visor

That leaves only 8500cr to split up for our individual shares.  The vid-vox scrambler now appears to be a nice to have thing.

Mack wants to spend for his gear:
1200cr Computer Interface Visor
1000cr for Improved Accuracy to his Blaster Rifle.
800cr for 4 frag grenades
500cr for 2 stun grenades
Would like to upgrade his Heavy Blaster for Improved Accuracy as well if I can afford it.


----------



## toasterferret

Just give me the green light when you want me to jump in Possum, or throw me in yourself, whichever works.  Im good to go.


----------



## Songdragon

Is all that really needed for TB? The programing and kit... the other though. Some upgrades for us is nice too.

TF, I am sure you could _run_ into any of us on the ship right now without anything bad happening. Check this thread... http://www.enworld.org/forum/playin...wn-defiance-chapter-i-traitors-gambit-72.html


----------



## Binder Fred

I thought we were pulling things out of ship inventory on Bail's dime? If they have to pay for it, the rest of TB's upgrades would of course come from Sloor's cut of the pie.


----------



## perrinmiller

BF, I am all for spending the 8500cr from the group's treasury before paying out the individual shares.  Mack can do the programming for Mechanics and Use Computers by taking a 10, IIRC.  He has the skill and will purchase the Computer Interface Visor beforehand. 

After that, the other stuff, appears to be nice to have upgrades that can maybe wait for later if Sloor cannot afford them.  We can sell the Hover Sled, remotely if you guys want.  Also we need to find out the results of haggling (can we get success with taking a 10?)  That will reduce the costs and increase the sale value significantly in both directions.


----------



## Songdragon

Is Superior Accuracy (from scum and Villainy p 24 under Superior Tech feat) available?


----------



## perrinmiller

Ooohh, I was just going for Improved Accuracy for +1, but Superior's cool if we can get it.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Ooohh, I was just going for Improved Accuracy for +1, but Superior's cool if we can get it.




Quartermaster is good, but he's not _that_ good.


----------



## Songdragon

Thought I would ask...


----------



## Binder Fred

Alright, so let's drop the strength increase from the party share of TB's expenses, making it:

15,000 in loot after buying out Keyton
- Surgery Kit -1000cr
- Surgical expertise Module -1000cr
- Medical Interface Visor (KotOR) -1500cr
- Vid-vox Scrambler (galaxy of intrigue pg66) - 3400cr
= 8100 / 3 = 2700 creds each from loot
+ 2000 creds in wages for our last mission = 4700 creds each. 

As for Haggle, I'm assuming an Indifferent outlook from the quartermaster due to short supplies (DC25). Feel free to roll for Sloor for each of your items as I did below.

[sblock=Haggle rolls]Sloor upgrades:
Vibro-axe (Ojom mace) - 500cr 1d20+9=11
Detonite X 3 - 500cr each 1d20+9=28 Half price.
Ion grenade X 3 - 750cr 1d20+9=14
Stun grenades X 3 - 750cr 1d20+9=22

TB upgrades:
+3 Str boost (for carrying stuff) - 3000cr 1d20+9=19
Mechanics skill - 500cr 1d20+9=13
Use Computer skill - 500cr 1d20+9=10
Trade Hover for Flight - 3600cr 1d20+9=18[/sblock][sblock=Sloor's purchases]
Sloor purchases (2000 cr):
Vibro-axe (Ojom mace) - 500cr
Detonite X 3 - 250cr each
Ion grenade X 1 - 250cr each
Stun grenades X 2 - 250cr each

TB upgrades (2000 cr):
+1 Str boost (for carrying stuff) - 1000cr
Mechanics skill - 500cr
Use Computer skill - 500cr
Surgery Kit - From party loot
Surgical Expertise module - From party loot
Vid-vox Scrambler (galaxy of intrigue pg66) - From party loot
Medical Interface Visor (KotOR) - From party loot[/sblock]What bonus does the Medical Interface Visor provide exactly? (I don't have KotOR).


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks, BF;

Mack can do the programming skills for TB by taking a 10.  That saves 1000cr, doesn't it?

Med Interface Visor adds +2 to Treat Injury.


----------



## Binder Fred

Not that I don't appreciate an extra thousand, but is it really that simple to program droid skill sets? I mean, I've programmed a bit in my day so I have some idea of the complexity/time/investments involved (i.e. at least the same as develloping a brand new computer game), but strictly from an in-game point of view: 500 creds from taking 10 with no cred requirements? We're in the wrong carreer path, spirks.  

Translation: where is this noted in the rules, so I can reassure myself? The Use Computer description in the main rule book does list "change a droid's trained skill", but that, to my mind, refers to installing an already bought skill module, not to programming one from scratch (?).


----------



## perrinmiller

So we need to spend 500cr on parts, then?  That would make sense I guess.  I tried looking around in my books and did not find an answer either.

We do have those skills covered, but having them twice means better aid another actions.  I think we are lacking in some knowledge skills which might be a better option. Of course we can reprogram them (for free?) later, yeah?


----------



## Songdragon

I know Sloor asked and I did not see any answer... About the replacement of Armor (light) in a Soldier's starting feats for Advanced Weapons? 

Mir sees to a few items...
[sblock=Sloor's haggle... or is that waggle ]Accuracy +1 1d20+9=12 (no joy) 1000 cr
FlashMedpac x3 (threats of the galaxy p.54) 1d20+9=23 (no joy) 1500 cr
Survival knife (unknown regions p.36) 100 cr
personal multi-tool (unknown regions p.41) 100 cr

Total spent 2700, remaining 2000 cr[/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller

Roll an Aid Another to boost that 23 to 25.  I rolled for Mack, but no joy either. Mack's Aid Another (1d20+1=9)


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> I know Sloor asked and I did not see any answer... About the replacement of Armor (light) in a Soldier's starting feats for Advanced Weapons?



Possum gave me his OK via PM.


----------



## possum

Back from a local comic convention.  We all ready to proceed with Adventure 2, or are there still some questions?


----------



## Binder Fred

If my gear selection is alright with you, then I'm good to go.


----------



## Songdragon

Good to go here.


----------



## perrinmiller

I am good to go.


----------



## possum

A Wretched Hive...


----------



## Binder Fred

Binder Fred said:


> “Well, cawnt me awt; the Empire dawsn’t like my kind apparently, sure as frek nawt in any awfficial capacity...” He raises a warning finger as the next thought occurs to him, “And I ain’t playing your pet either, Sra! Naw way.”



Not even a smirk at the thought of Sloor on a leash with a big pink bow around his neck? Tough croud.


----------



## perrinmiller

Well, that's a funny image.  I give you an amused smile for that one.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there Possum. Sloor is mostly waiting for a yay or nay on their fee negotiation. 5000 each was prososed earlier, which Mack climbed up to 6000 in a fearless Aid Another attempt. 

One minor question from Sloor left hanging as well, but I'm guessing I can assume a no on this one...?



Binder Fred said:


> Sloor swivels towards Varth, “Dan't suppawse we have any idea haw awften the trades between Darga and the Imprials awccur, where they takes place awr when the next awne’s scheduled fawr, Varth man?”


----------



## perrinmiller

Tomorrow finds me out of town (yeah, out of   town from being away from home already), driving 18 hours to attend my   brother's wedding.  I will be a tad scarce during the weekend until   returning on Tuesday.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> "Cawver mawre grawnd?" replies Sloor, obviously not seeing what he means exactly...
> 
> <Reponse Mack?>



I have two reasons OOC against this:
1. No diplomatic or social skills with Mack and possibly Darius either.  Sloor is the face and Mir has the Mind Trick.  So really Mack on any team is only Aid Another actions.
2. Don't like splitting up party into 2 groups for IC interactions with NPCs either.  If there are combat encounters then the pair is either out gunned or they get XP the others don't.

But it is late night and I cannot think of an IC explanation (that would be appropriate from Mack) to change Sloor's mind today.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sloor was initially planning to suggest a game of chance to split up the teams, but then IC matters interfeered.  That said,

No 1 seems a perfectly valid point IC. Might be worth bringing it up.

No 2, on the other hand, seems either overly timid or metagamy - perticularly considering that we all have comms and that level advancement in this game is clearly event-triggered. You certainly won't convince Sloor that he can't handle a squad of locals on his own, but you're welcome to try. 

No 3 is of course that Mack badly *wants* to be teamed up with Mir.


----------



## Binder Fred

So, Perrin, are you going to bring this up IC? If not, should we move on to the next scene?


----------



## perrinmiller

perrinmiller said:


> Tomorrow finds me out of town (yeah, out of   town from being away from home already), driving 18 hours to attend my   brother's wedding.  I will be a tad scarce during the weekend until   returning on Tuesday.



Well, I just finished driving 19 hours and woke up.  Outside of that 1-2 hours I had Friday night, I have barely been able to even read everything, let alone play.  After staying up everynight to 2:00am visiting with relatives I haven't seen in 13 years, there was no time for IC posting.

I will try to catch up tonight.


----------



## perrinmiller

Okay, pardon my bad writing.  But Mack was not really agreeing with Sloor but backing up Mir's proposal to stay together.

Of course if Mir's Search Feelings says it is okay, Mack could change his mind.  Maybe? (Voodoo )

But I don't think the UtF check will help in our decision to split up unless there is a strong danger that would happen within 10 minutes.  I think that is all the farther you can look ahead and long-term ramifications will not be factored in.  At least that is how it was explained to me in another game.  

However, I recommend that Mir do that often when we are moving about in this potentially dangerous situation.  Maybe Possum will let you have that going on a standard operating procedure so you don't have to post it all of the time.


----------



## toasterferret

[sblock=OOC] Darius is a big fan of UTF checks.  I'm sure if you brought it up he wouldnt mind helping Mir or searching his own feelings about the matter [/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller

Since it was an OOC suggestion only, by all means do the checks. 

Mack is taking the ignorant approach to the Force, believing it to be akin to magic.


----------



## perrinmiller

BTW, I am flying back home to Japan today.  I might be scarce for the next 2-3 days until I get settled back in.


----------



## perrinmiller

Hey guys,

I returned to my office yesterday  only to be laid off. It looks like the natural disaster has put the  writing on the wall in my little office and they realize that the SALES  people cannot do their job.  So they need to reduce costs by cutting the  senior engineer (keeping the junior guy that has only been there 3  months).  No one every says management is smart.  I would have waited a  few more months to ensure the junior guy's at least could do the job  first.  Anyway, that's what I get for skipping town under the threat of  nuclear disaster.

Not sure what that will mean for the future of  my gaming, but it has definitely put a damper on my creativity for the  near term. I expect that I will actually have less time for playing in  the longer term as I no longer have my iPhone to keep up on things and  cannot spend as much time in front of a computer at home as I could  working.

I have not been able to catch up since I left Stateside yet, but hope to in the next few days.

-PM


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Hey guys,
> 
> I returned to my office yesterday  only to be laid off. It looks like the natural disaster has put the  writing on the wall in my little office and they realize that the SALES  people cannot do their job.  So they need to reduce costs by cutting the  senior engineer (keeping the junior guy that has only been there 3  months).  No one every says management is smart.  I would have waited a  few more months to ensure the junior guy's at least could do the job  first.  Anyway, that's what I get for skipping town under the threat of  nuclear disaster.
> 
> Not sure what that will mean for the future of  my gaming, but it has definitely put a damper on my creativity for the  near term. I expect that I will actually have less time for playing in  the longer term as I no longer have my iPhone to keep up on things and  cannot spend as much time in front of a computer at home as I could  working.
> 
> I have not been able to catch up since I left Stateside yet, but hope to in the next few days.
> 
> -PM




Damn, man, I'm sorry.  I hope you have a lot of luck when it comes to finding another job.  And I don't blame you at all for not being in the mood for gaming.  Take care.


----------



## Binder Fred

Wow, rough first day Perrin. You have my heartfelt sympathies. 

Good luck on the job hunt from me as well, though I'm not too worried: engineers have God on their side, after all. (He was an engineer too, apparently ).


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks guys, I have good family support here in Japan and back in the  States if it comes to that.  I am catching up on my gaming tonight,  slowly but surely.

And God is probably tell me something.  It will work out in the end I am sure.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there, folks. Summer again and time for me to venture out into the field once more. I'll be going out on monday so expect slower posting for the next 20 days or so. Sorry about that.


----------



## perrinmiller

Summer already, BF.  My how time flies. 



possum said:


> OOC: Please roll a bank of initiatives and place yourselves on the tactical map.
> 
> You should be around the center of the map, surrounded by the swoop gang  (to be added later).  The dark spots in the map are holes in the  street, leading to a large fall.



Are we still in the taxi?  It would appear to be a good place to maintain cover if these local gangers want to start shooting.

So I think the back seat is Mack is back left, Mir in middle, Darius back right with Sloor up front with TB?  Or are we being artificially ejected form our transportation? 

Initiative (1d20+8=12, 1d20+8=23, 1d20+8=20)


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> OOC: You know Binder, that's so amusing that I'm going to let it work.  Kudos for creativity.



Thank you!


----------



## Binder Fred

Property visit is finished, moving to the camp tomorrow. They're having some problems with their internet right now, by the way, problems which they're hoping to have fixed by tomorrow. But if not, parts will have to be shipped down on monday. So fair warning, I might not have access until at least then -- technical problems being what they are.


----------



## Songdragon

Looks like Possum is going to have little internet for the next bit ... http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/306214-possum-has-limited-internet-next-couple-days.html

So no worries.


----------



## Binder Fred

Back in the online fields of glory, folks! Waiting for Sloor's turn at the bat.


----------



## Songdragon

All I have to say is OUCH! Mir's hurting that is for sure... 

Welcome back Binder.


----------



## perrinmiller

At least it is better than that head shot Mack took in Enc#2.  

Ya know, since then I don't think Mack has been hit again.


----------



## possum

Mack's been lucky, that's for sure, since the headshot.  Dice are funny that way.


----------



## perrinmiller

Helps having good armor.   That and letting 'baton boy' do all the charging into blaster fire.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> The biker right next to the charging Darius fires his blaster pistol at the Jedi, drawing a quick slash from the Jedi.  (Hits Ref 17 for 18 damage if he survives the AoO).



Bit confused by this. I didn't think firing a ranged wepon was something that provoked an AoO in Saga (I sort of remember Mack doing that very thing a couple of times, actually). It's not listed on p.156, so I'm missing something... a force power or a feat or something?


----------



## toasterferret

You know, I think you are right BF.  

But since I already made the AoO, lets just say that I activated my Shien Deflection power, which would have allowed me to do just that.  I had intended to do so in the first place anyhow.


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> Bit confused by this. I didn't think firing a ranged wepon was something that provoked an AoO in Saga (I sort of remember Mack doing that very thing a couple of times, actually). It's not listed on p.156, so I'm missing something... a force power or a feat or something?




You're right, it doesn't.  I think it's in another system about ranged attacks in melee drawing one.  Mistake's been made, I'll let the results stand.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> You're right, it doesn't.  I think it's in another system about ranged attacks in melee drawing one.



 Yep, that's teh rule in d20 Modern and D&D/PF.  I did notice in Star Wars RCR ranged attacks don't draw one though.


----------



## toasterferret

Well, as I said before, I have a reactionary force power that allows me to move up to an opponent and make an attack when a ranged attack is fired.   I'll just count it used for this encounter.


----------



## Songdragon

For the illusion talent (JTAM p.14), is there a range on it? I have read the talent over and do not see the range. 

The thought was to create an illusion to drive the gang leader, back our way. Is it possible, or is she just too far?


----------



## possum

Songdragon said:


> For the illusion talent (JTAM p.14), is there a range on it? I have read the talent over and do not see the range.
> 
> The thought was to create an illusion to drive the gang leader, back our way. Is it possible, or is she just too far?




It doesn't say...  Go ahead and do it, I think you can see the swoop at the moment.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> OOC: The Force point was _just_ not needed.  And Darius is up, unless Mack wants to make a shot from the window.



I think you already gave me results on Mack from last round.  Finished off Biker #1.  Darius is up, Mack is last on the Initiative order.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> The thought was to create an illusion to drive the gang leader, back our way.



But- but... I just finished driving her off!


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> But- but... I just finished driving her off!



Yeah, with our loot and possible valuable information if we interrogate.


----------



## Binder Fred

<shrugs>. Though I do think you should block the *up* direction with your illusion as well, Songdragon. This is a swoop bike after all...



			
				Toasterferret said:
			
		

> Seeing his companions take off after the gang leader, Darius shrugs, and renews his assault on the remaining gang members.




Sloor is actually turning the taxi around to attack the two SE thugs this round, TF.


----------



## toasterferret

Binder Fred said:


> <shrugs>. Though I do think you should block the *up* direction with your illusion as well, Songdragon. This is a swoop bike after all...
> 
> 
> 
> Sloor is actually turning the taxi around to attack the two SE thugs this round, TF.




Well, i went for #5, so you should have a clear shot at the SE two.


----------



## Binder Fred

Possum, just FYI both myself and Songdragon have posted our actions for this round. The gang leader is next in the initiative order, I believe.


----------



## Binder Fred

FYI, I'm going on vacation starting next friday for roughly 10 days. I will be camping with my family, so no internet for the Binder during that time. Please feel free to NPC Sloor as required and sorry about that folks! I'll miss you guys.


----------



## perrinmiller

Have a good time, BF.   We might have to wait for you to return, depending on where we are in the current scene.


----------



## possum

Yeah, that might be a very good possibility.  I'll look up your tactics to make sure I keep Sloor in character.  In case he gets humiliated...


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there, folks! Still on vacation but back to the land of the Internet! Should have access roughly a day every two until I get back home on the 14th.

By the by, shouldn't we be something like 4 squares to the right of where we are on the map? Songdragon was talking about 10 squares east of the westernmost wall...


----------



## perrinmiller

Does it really matter all that much, BF?  It doesn't to me, but perhaps I am not seeing what you are.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:
			
		

> (( I believe that Kessra was trying to exit stage left... ))



Hope springs eternal... And I did get a 25 on that Influence Another roll, you know.


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> Hope springs eternal... And I did get a 25 on that Influence Another roll, you know.




If you want to use a Force point to oppose her FP use, do it now.


----------



## Binder Fred

Persuassion is not an opposed skill, so I'm guessing this is for the Stealth roll?

1d6=2.


----------



## perrinmiller

It sounds like the GM really wants her to get away. 

Will this help? Aid Another - Perception (1d20+9=20)


----------



## possum

Kinda...  Let's do some math here.

Kessra's stealth of 25 plus her Force point result of 6=31
TB's Perception of 26 plus his FP result of 2 + 2 for Aid Another=30

She just manages to get away.


----------



## perrinmiller

That's okay.  We hunt her down later. :grin:


----------



## Binder Fred

Post edited. 

So we move on then? Mack's ordered the goons to drop their weapons and Sloor seems intent on pursuing the fight if Raden and the gang are not truly, *truly* convinced (here's an Intimidation roll if you need it: 1d20+9=29... WOW, a crit!). How does the opposition react?


----------



## perrinmiller

I am ready.


----------



## perrinmiller

When the time comes, Mack will take a 20 Perception (+9) on looking for explosives.  No reason to be chancy. 

But I did ask Raden a question before we move on.


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION];  How close are we to reaching 4th level?  

I still have 6 FP and I probably should think about using them more often.


----------



## possum

I'd say about two more encounters.

And sorry guys, I couldn't resist that little joke in the IC thread...


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks.

BTW, TF has some RL issues that he mentioned in our LPF game so there is a legitimate reason for his quietness.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> And sorry guys, I couldn't resist that little joke in the IC thread...




[sblock=Shortly after landing on Cato Neimoidia...]][ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nYeNrZ4EPY]YouTube[/ame] [/sblock]


----------



## perrinmiller

That's some seriously explosive diarrhea that Sloor has.


----------



## Songdragon

Heya PM... no wories about the slip up. Mack might just be that way...

As for force powers used goes... The most recent was mind trick which would not be noticeable as far as I am aware, it is a mental power. It was one of those I choose for that reason. Like mind shard too.

The other was an illusion, now weather Darius noticed it or not is the question. He was in battle at the time and the illusion was not that close close. I am sure he could figure it out in time.

No worries OOC. Mir on the other hand...


----------



## perrinmiller

Well, we do know that when combat is close or just finished, Mack is not always focused on other issues, sometimes not even paying attention.  So him blurting the secret is perfectly in character when he is apprehensive about danger as in the current scene.


----------



## Binder Fred

So I make that two votes for the Risky Sloor Plan (Darius and Sloor) and one vote for The Pragmatic Thing (Mack). Mir has the floor.


----------



## Songdragon

Go for it...


----------



## perrinmiller

No argument from Mack 

BTW, I received an offer letter today and I am scheduled to once again join the ranks of the employed on 26 Sep.  Good news for me and my family, bad news for those people without patience in the games I am involved in.  There will be days that I cannot always post in every game that I am in at EnWorld.  

But, I was going to become a once every two days poster after getting a new job anyway.  Since any new job wasn't going to let me do PbP gaming regardless.     But, I did trim some games away as well, giving up my experiments with 4th edition and Mutants & Masterminds.

While I don't actually start until next week, I am still playing catch up from a three day weekend, and we start a second one on Friday.  Assuming the Typhoon here in Tokyo has run its course and we have little league on that day, of course.  So I am already in this reduced gameplaying state.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> No argument from Mack
> 
> BTW, I received an offer letter today and I am scheduled to once again join the ranks of the employed on 26 Sep.  Good news for me and my family, bad news for those people without patience in the games I am involved in.  There will be days that I cannot always post in every game that I am in at EnWorld.
> 
> But, I was going to become a once every two days poster after getting a new job anyway.  Since any new job wasn't going to let me do PbP gaming regardless  :mrgreen:   But, I did trim some games away as well, giving up my experiments with 4th edition and Mutants & Masterminds.
> 
> While I don't actually start until next week, I am still playing catch up from a three day weekend, and we start a second one on Friday.  Assuming the Typhoon here in Tokyo has run its course and we have little league on that day, of course.  So I am already in this reduced gameplaying state.




Congrats on the new job and I understand about your posting being more limited now.


----------



## Binder Fred

Ditto on the new job, Perrin. 

On a side note, your PM box seems to be full, full, full: "perrinmiller has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space!"


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks.  

I fixed the inbox issue, I received enough new messages overnight to fill it and had not gotten around to clearing some space again with my phone.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> "3-1 odds on the Crimson Fists keeping Raden alive,"  Demos states after a few seconds of thinking.  Other than yourselves,  not very many of Darga's guests take that bet, prefering to gamble on  Zayda's crew.



Does this mean we cannot bet on ourselves or that  we get really good odds, payout 3x if we win?

I tried to upload this yesterday but issues with the site prevented it.   I added grid coordinates to the map, but I had to turn it sideways to  fit on the screen in my mapping program.

EDIT: With wonky issues on the site, I ended up posting this twice.  Sorry.


----------



## Binder Fred

Possum said:
			
		

> OOC: I'm going to say that Raden won't be able to move much in the battle, he's going to be all but stationary due to his knee.



Not to belabor the point too much, but the team HAS heavily invested in medical supplies, software and hardware specifically so we *can* do 10-minute Surgeries (with the Surgical Expertise Feat and our Surgical kit on the pointy end here). Now we get to a point where this can actually be helpful and... we can't use it??? Repairing a wounded knee seems to be exactly what the Surgery roll was designed to do.

If you want, we could always limit him to half speed? Or Darga could forbid we give him any weapons at the begining (I rather like this one, actually: ups the drama for Raden, to be put into the arena weaponless )?

On a side note, is it just me or has it been a while since [MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION] and [MENTION=100541]toasterferret[/MENTION] have spoken up? I'll wait a bit before posting again.



perrinmiller said:


> Does this mean we cannot bet on ourselves or that  we get really good odds, payout 3x if we win?



3:1 isn't really that good if we're the underdogs, you know? I was hoping for 5:1 at least! I guess Sloor did too much of a good job promoting the team.  

But, yes, 3:1 means you get three times your bet if you win. It's purely a money conversion (you put in 1, you get back 3) and is only indirectly linked with the oods of us winning. i.e. the numbers are not saying the oods of us winning are 1 in 4, as returns are set individually for each possibility. So having 3:1 on our team *winning* only implies that the spread for the *other team* winning will be somewhere below that, as they are supposedly the favorites (probably 2:1 or even fractional returns (down to 1.1:1) if Demos and the croud feel it's really a sure thing (which apparently he doesn't, or our own odds would be much, much higher)). 

Mack might be able to increase his winnings if he bets on specific end conditions (Perfect Victory (no 'casualties' on our side) or a specific attacker for the kill, for example)?


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> Not to belabor the point too much, but the team HAS heavily invested in medical supplies, software and hardware specifically so we *can* do 10-minute Surgeries (with the Surgical Expertise Feat and our Surgical kit on the pointy end here). Now we get to a point where this can actually be helpful and... we can't use it??? Repairing a wounded knee seems to be exactly what the Surgery roll was designed to do.
> 
> If you want, we could always limit him to half speed? Or Darga could forbid we give him any weapons at the begining (I rather like this one, actually: ups the drama for Raden, to be put into the arena weaponless )?
> 
> On a side note, is it just me or has it been a while since [MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION] and [MENTION=100541]toasterferret[/MENTION] have spoken up? I'll wait a bit before posting again.
> 
> 
> 3:1 isn't really that good if we're the underdogs, you know? I was hoping for 5:1 at least! I guess Sloor did too much of a good job promoting the team.
> 
> But, yes, 3:1 means you get three times your bet if you win. It's purely a money conversion (you put in 1, you get back 3) and is only indirectly linked with the oods of us winning. i.e. the numbers are not saying the oods of us winning are 1 in 4, as returns are set individually for each possibility. So having 3:1 on our team *winning* only implies that the spread for the *other team* winning will be somewhere below that, as they are supposedly the favorites (probably 2:1 or even fractional returns (down to 1.1:1) if Demos and the croud feel it's really a sure thing (which apparently he doesn't, or our own odds would be much, much higher)).
> 
> Mack might be able to increase his winnings if he bets on specific end conditions (Perfect Victory (no 'casualties' on our side) or a specific attacker for the kill, for example)?




Raden: You've convinced me.  He will start off with no weapons, but will only be able to move at about half speed.

And yes, I'll be willing to take situational bets on the outcome of the battle.  Thanks for the map, again, PM.  For some reason, I can't get GIMP to put a grid on the images, even though I think that it should be able to.


----------



## perrinmiller

Heh, you are using GIMP.  That program is not so easy.

I would try this one: RPTools - Downloads

That's what I use to put grid coordinates on the maps.  With on-line tutorials its learning curve is not bad at all.

--------

Tripling my money if we win should be enough, I guess.  Unless Sloor has some better ideas.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> Raden: You've convinced me.  He will start off with no weapons, but will only be able to move at about half speed.



Both of them at once, uh? Well... I *did* ask for more challenges, didn't I? 

How high are those rocks in the arena, by the way?  Are the sides climbable?


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> Both of them at once, uh? Well... I *did* ask for more challenges, didn't I?
> 
> How high are those rocks in the arena, by the way?  Are the sides climbable?




Tall enough to grant full cover and concealment, and they can only be climbed with a Climb check.


----------



## Binder Fred

Gone tomorrow, back the day after.


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], 

Once we get tokens on the map, I can zoom in to the specific section so we can get a better grid layout.  Unless you know what part you need now; you can give me the rows and columns you want zoomed in on.

I am bit confused.  I thought we could not use our own weapons, but were given some non-lethal ones.  So how are the bad guys going to get explosives?  I sort of asked this indirectly in IC, but haven't received an answer yet.  Can I have this clarified, please?

Then I will be able to reply in the IC thread for our planning session.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION],
> 
> Once we get tokens on the map, I can zoom in to the specific section so we can get a better grid layout.  Unless you know what part you need now; you can give me the rows and columns you want zoomed in on.
> 
> I am bit confused.  I thought we could not use our own weapons, but were given some non-lethal ones.  So how are the bad guys going to get explosives?  I sort of asked this indirectly in IC, but haven't received an answer yet.  Can I have this clarified, please?
> 
> Then I will be able to reply in the IC thread for our planning session.




I think that I'll leave the map as is, but thanks for the offer.

As for the explosives, they're much lower grade than normal.  Not really enough to kill someone, but they'll still hurt (ie: still full damage, but your characters are unlikely to get killed).


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> Darga thinks for a few seconds, seemingly coming up with the rules on the fly.  "Merciful Darga has decided on the rules for the match," the droid translates.  "Your weapons and equipment will be take to your new quarters here and you will be given the non-lethal weapons all of my gladiators use, as will my team, save for one weapon each...  A dagger will be given to Zayda and the others, to be used only for Raden."



Again I don't get where these explosives are coming from.  Please provide details on these non-lethal weapons and what weapon we can keep.  Do I get to keep my blaster rifle?

Since we are practically ready to start, I would like more on the rules as well.  If we need to ask IC, let us know.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Again I don't get where these explosives are coming from.  Please provide details on these non-lethal weapons and what weapon we can keep.  Do I get to keep my blaster rifle?
> 
> Since we are practically ready to start, I would like more on the rules as well.  If we need to ask IC, let us know.




You don't get to keep _your_ blaster rifle, per se, but you are provided with one that's relatively non-lethal (and happens to be exactly like your own rifle, how convenient!).  The explosives are provided as well, by Darga.

As for rules, it's just like regular combat, save with a few objectives.  You win if you incapacitate (reduce to 0 HP) all members of the opposing team.  They win when they kill Warrick Raden.  All damage is normal, save for the fact that you can't die.

Does that clarify it enough?


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks.

So the bad guys have a knife that they technically are only allowed to use on Raden.  These explosives are the equivelent on non-lethal frag grenades?  Who many do we have each?


----------



## possum

I loved that "technically".  I'd say that you can be assigned up to two each.  Of course, one can always just give one to a friend...


----------



## perrinmiller

So when we roll damage for our non-lethal versions of our weapons, treat them as the same as what we normally have?  

What's the damage for the explosives?


----------



## possum

Treat your given weapons exactly like you treat your normal weapons.  As for the explosives, they're frag grenades.


----------



## Binder Fred

Not feeling too good (missing work has never been less fun ). I'll try to get a post in today, but it might not go until tomorrow (Pretty tired at this point).


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries. Not sure I will post tonight or not.  Wednesday nights for me are very busy and only a narrow time period of posting.  I get absolutely nothing done during the day with the new job, so my evenings are it.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> OOC: You're playing defense, so you all get first choice.  Which one?



Can we place ourselves wherever we want on the playing field?


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> Can we place ourselves wherever we want on the playing field?




As long as you all are relatively close to one another.


----------



## Binder Fred

So what do you guys think? If we're going to take advantage of Mir's and Mack's "scouting" exoeditions, we would *have* to starts on the left side of the field to meet expectations, with the opposing team probably starting on the opposite side... So how about starting behind the cover provided by the rocks in rows 7 to 9, with the Raden Team (Mack+TB) behind the one at Z-AA and the other group behind the one at P-Q? Large killing field in front of Z-AA...

Or is that too spread out, Possum?

Re-linking the map for convinience:


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> So what do you guys think? If we're going to take advantage of Mir's and Mack's "scouting" exoeditions, we would *have* to starts on the left side of the field to meet expectations, with the opposing team probably starting on the opposite side... So how about starting behind the cover provided by the rocks in rows 7 to 9, with the Raden Team (Mack+TB) behind the one at Z-AA and the other group behind the one at P-Q? Large killing field in front of Z-AA...
> 
> Or is that too spread out, Possum?
> 
> Re-linking the map for convinience:




Kind of, but it'll be fine.  Exact locations for everyone, please.


----------



## Songdragon

Mir... Q-6 to start...


----------



## perrinmiller

If we can start anywhere, why not behind the rock Z17-Z19?  If we spread out too far, they can enter together and potentially gang up on us separately.


----------



## Binder Fred

well, aren't we sort of boxed-in there? Behind 7-9 we can do a pincer move on the killing ground in front of Z-AA if they all move that way, and/or have Raden move north from cover to cover and behind all that difficult terrain, etc. It seems to give us more options.

If we do go with that, Sloor will go P6. I'll let Mack position Raden and TB where he wants them for optimum defense.


----------



## perrinmiller

How about this?

Mack at Y4
TB at AB7
Raden at AC7


----------



## Binder Fred

No cover? I've sort of been asuming the other team will be starting on the opposite side of the field (in the 20's).


----------



## perrinmiller

I thought they would come from the stairs in 5-6.  I was planning to start crouched or prone to lay down covering fire when they appear.


----------



## Binder Fred

I was seeing the playing field as, well, a playing field, with each team starting at opposing ends.  The bits of conversations overheard by Mir shows that Zayda's team is also apparently assuming something of the kind.

Can we know which version you will be going with, Possum? Stairs, opposite ends, other, that obviously makes a huge difference in terms of starting positions and cover.


----------



## possum

Every group comes down the stairs, but they take positions on each end of the "playing field" before the fight begins.


----------



## perrinmiller

LOL.  I was expecting to start fighting as soon as they started coming down the stairs. 

Mack crouched at Z6.
TB at AA6
Raden at AA5

How are we handling crouched?  Is it a poor man's prone?


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> LOL.  I was expecting to start fighting as soon as they started coming down the stairs.
> 
> Mack crouched at Z6.
> TB at AA6
> Raden at AA5
> 
> How are we handling crouched?  Is it a poor man's prone?




Yeah.  +2 on melee attacks, -2 on ranged.


----------



## Binder Fred

Just [MENTION=100541]toasterferret[/MENTION] left for the initial positioning then, though I admit I'm also getting more and more curious as to what Mir's reaction is going to be to Sloor's last comment, [MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION]?


----------



## toasterferret

Darius will start at U-6


----------



## possum

Did I have you all create a new initiative pool?  I've honestly forgotten if I have or haven't.


----------



## perrinmiller

For Mack:
Initiative (1d20+8=26)
Initiative (1d20+8=16)
Initiative (1d20+8=20)
Initiative (1d20+8=13)


----------



## Binder Fred

You did, back on the 15th of May. As far as I can tell, we still have one roll unused from that time, a 20 for Mack and an 8 for Sloor. Couldn't find a bank for Mir or for Darius though.


----------



## Binder Fred

So I guess we need an ini (or three) from Songdragon and Toasterferret?


----------



## possum

A couple more from you, too, Binder.  To top off your pool.


----------



## Binder Fred

Here you go, Possum:

1d20=2, 1d20=12, 1d20=13


----------



## Songdragon

Initiatives for Mir...

1d20+8=14
1d20+8=13
1d20+8=14
1d20+8=22
1d20+8=15


----------



## possum

[MENTION=100541]toasterferret[/MENTION] can I have an initiative pool from you?


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## toasterferret

1d20+8=27, 1d20+8=28, 1d20+8=20, 1d20+8=9, 1d20+8=14


Sorry that took so long.

I regretfully have to say that I'll be pulling myself from the campaign after this encounter.  I'm just not having as much fun with the system/character as I thought I would.  It's not you guys at all, I'm just not really feeling it.


----------



## possum

toasterferret said:


> 1d20+8=27, 1d20+8=28, 1d20+8=20, 1d20+8=9, 1d20+8=14
> 
> 
> Sorry that took so long.
> 
> I regretfully have to say that I'll be pulling myself from the campaign after this encounter.  I'm just not having as much fun with the system/character as I thought I would.  It's not you guys at all, I'm just not really feeling it.




Sorry to hear that.  Thanks for playing, though.


----------



## perrinmiller

I have a female saber girl on the sidelines after FireintheDust's game folded.  I don't mind running her too.  Probably better in the long run as I have no idea who to ask to join.  I tried to recruit a decent player for PF and everyone I know is busy.

Open recruitment is a crap shoot and we have good chemistry that will only be tarnished by another person who cannot get into it.







Sonja Kuurzon

Female Human, Jedi, Level 5


----------



## possum

If you feel like you can play two characters, that's fine by me.


----------



## Binder Fred

I don't know, I kind of like the idea idea of a fourth (fifth?) player in the group. Three works, for sure, but additional players add something to the dynamics, I think... Perhaps the trick to smoother recruitment could be: 

1. DON'T do fitrst come, first served; ask for a completed character, with background, and choose the best.

2. Specify that submitters have to come up with a believable way for the character(s) to come into the group and must build that into their character submission. That should help a lot with character integration into the group's "chemistry", and it shows at least a minimum of reading/dedication from would-be applicants. 

Off the top of my head: Sloor has been trying to recruit personel since day one (sec guard at Sel Zom, Biker chick recently, etc).  Maybe he could finally succeed? (Potentiel targets for this:  Darga personnel (one of Zayda's team even?), future imperial personnel coming with the delegation (and wishing to deffect after seeing the horrors of the Sarlacc project?)). Or it could be  any of the slaves we hear Darga has been keeping, or Bicker chick (with a frekking good explanation as to why she buggered off), or how about Radden himself, he's got good reasons to re-locate (and maybe his -hum- character flaws were mostly caused by spice addiction? Sobber it's like he's a whole new person )?

I can't help feeling that, in a perfect world, adding another character - without adding another *player* - (So just to beef-up our combat efficacity?), shouldn't be our first choice.


----------



## perrinmiller

I find it very fortunate that my first PbP game is with you guys.  It set my standards high and since, I have found most other players lacking.  Everyone in the other Star Wars games here at EnW I have encountered are not acceptable.  They either are weak on content or cannot post daily on any frequency.

I am not interested in playing with another person that cannot meet our standards, and I could care less their reasons for it.  In a recruitment, I am not very understanding about RL getting in the way. Those people should not commit in the first place.

So that leaves trying to find a person that I have not encountered before.  There are some decent players in LPF, but I recently polled all of them to join a PF game and could not find one with the time.  I hope I am wrong and one of you knows a good player that I don't.

Otherwise, we are left with trying to build chemistry with an unknown person.  Sorry, that will be a crap shoot and I am not very excited at the prospect. I am increasingly unhappy with the mainstream EnW culture perpetuated but several longtime players.  

I have games where there are only three players and they work just fine for figuring out plot issues. Let's face it, most of the work have been by us three from the start anyway. When determining what to do, we still need a consensus from 2 out of 3 players. 

Mack and Sonja have very different personalities so I can assure you interactions will not be the same just because I am pulling their strings.  In fact the persona I would use for her would not be the one I was using in Strike for the Adamant. She was more mature and soldier like considering the campaign.  I have a RCR version that is younger and more suited to be found on our current planet perhaps.


----------



## Binder Fred

Well I still think there are some decent players out there, and I will try contacting a few (let you know how that turns out. 

On another tack, Perrin, if minimal disruption of group chemistry is our goal, why not just take over Darius?


----------



## toasterferret

I would'nt mind that in the least.

Perin brings up a good point about group chemistry.  As someone who tried to come into the group from the outside, I pretty much felt like a third wheel at all times.  I don't think any of you were doing anything wrong, but joining an already established group as tight as you guys are isn't easy.


----------



## Binder Fred

But... But- Isn't the world a tricycle? 

I've often found that if you consistantly feel something as a player, then there's a good chance your character is feeling it too. Build-it in (word, actions, atitude, even just thoughts). It gets it out there and you can better hash it out IC. 

I saw Darius as fairly quiet and... mild? Easy-going? to begin with. Which is fine - God knows the group could use a level-headed character  - but it's true that it doesn't help him stand out against the other three protagonists: Sloor will take as much space as you let him (and a bit more for good mesure), Mack is no pushover in the character department (I refer you to his many, many Balls and Deathstar similee ) and while Mir is more subtle, her personnality still always comes through -- you always know that she's *there*. A fourth definitively needs some sort of motivational/characterial center to hold him steady in that kind of a storm. For Darius it could be formal rigidity (see "white knight"), extreme stoicism/inner peace/defeatism, or maybe a strong and instant like or dislike for one (or more) of the other three (four counting TB)?


----------



## perrinmiller

By group chemistry I was referring to players, not the characters.  But I do understand that sometimes the distinction is blurred as people base their character's personalities on an aspect of themselves and it can be difficult separating that out when OOC issues intrude.

TF, I have noticed that you did not find a good rhythm with Borric or Zelena with your 1st LPF character and Anna either, not quite clicking.  Sometimes, things just don't work out and it isn't because anyone did something wrong. 

Also, it is can be difficult to truly keep your focus on staying in character if you don't stick with it on a frequent basis posting effectively 3-4 times a week. Don't take this the wrong way as I am not trying to offend you, TF.  This is a generalization and only you can honestly say if it applies or not. 

Rather, I am speaking from a point of view of having posted 1000's of IC content since I started playing this game and I have developed and improved in that time significantly.  So, perhaps we are playing at a different PbP skill level of creativity and it can be intimidating.  So any other noob to EnWorld will likely face similar issues, and this was the writing on the wall that I saw right away, BF.

I have played some games with other decent RPers, but just could not click with them either.  Probably because they made no effort to role-play with my character.

Honestly, instead of breaking in a new player, maybe we should look at what we can do to help TF enjoy playing Darius and get into the game.  Not sure that is possible, but it doesn't hurt to discuss.

If that is not possible...
I did give offering to play Darius about 2 minutes consideration.  However, my reasons for proposing Sonja, was not my desire to play two characters in this game, but rather to play the persona itself.

Sonja one of the personalities in my stable that currently doesn't have a home, unlike my Mack persona that is running around in at least 2 other games right now.  While I don't have time to find a decent game to get her into, I do have the time to play two characters in the same game.


----------



## possum

A lot of thinking for me to do here, and some good discussion as well.  It's a damn shame that I "wasted" giving you all XP in the past because this really deserves it.

Ilike Binder's idea of a more selective recruitment as well as Perrin's idea of trying to get toasterferret more into it.  In other words, I'm just as clueless as you are!


----------



## perrinmiller

I do frequent recruiting and recently have had some bad experiences with some immature douchebags. But I have written down some things as part of a DM workshop and have had frequent discussions about these issues with my good friends on another site.

If you have time, check this out. UnlimitedRPGs.com - Play by Post Games • View topic - Admin-PMiller's DM Workshop Series

There are some good tips and information there.  Particularly #6 & #8 which are most applicable for this discussion.


----------



## Binder Fred

Binder Fred said:


> An adrenalin-fueled grin towards the dark-clad jedi, who by his looks is very wisely waiting for his leadership



That's an inside-Sloor's-head joke, by the way.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there, folks! Two of the people I've contacted have expressed an interrest in our little game. I think both of them are more than competent roleplayers, if I do say so myself, and in for the long haul. 

First is [MENTION=6680745]ahayford[/MENTION] which would prefer to introduce a new character into the mix (you can see some of his work in The Shackled City). He's asking if: "there's a class you guys feel you'll be lacking? I could roll up a jedi to fill the vacant spot, but I could just as easily come up with something to fill a role you might be missing. It would actually help me come up with a character concept faster to have a direction to go in ". Thoughts?

[MENTION=21938]Dr Simon[/MENTION] just contacted me. He now has a copy of the Saga Edition and says "I'd be happy to take over Darius (maybe with a few mechanical tweaks, maybe not) - I can see potential in the character.". He's presently DMing the flavourful Iron Heroes, if you really want to know. 

Discuss!


----------



## Dr Simon

Binder Fred said:


> Dr Simon just contacted me.




That's me!



Binder Fred said:


> He now has a copy of the Saga Edition and says "I'd be happy to take over Darius (maybe with a few mechanical tweaks, maybe not) - I can see potential in the character.".




I think it'll save me time in creating a new character, and also save having to introduce a new character to the game. From what I can see, Darius seems to be a fairly generic Jedi base on which to build.



Binder Fred said:


> He's presently DMing the flavourful Iron Heroes, if you really want to know.




Amongst others. See link in sig.


----------



## perrinmiller

LOL, with two candidates for one spot, we can have debates and election.

I am not sure if we should be discussing everything in open forum, though.

I will say this.  Keeping Darius is a seamless transition, but for some, taking over someone else's character does not always hold interest for a long term thing.  I have done it myself without issue and know of one other person, but everyone else did not last more than a few months.  

However, we can work in a new character too.  If ahayford would be comfortable playing a ranged combat character to cover Use Computer and Mechanics skills, I could switch to Sonja and we can have them join as a team to help integrate them IC better, perhaps.

I have a few questions to ask both our candidates:
- Experience with the rules
- What aspect of PbP gaming they like best
- Anticipated frequency of participation/posting


----------



## ahayford

perrinmiller said:


> I have a few questions to ask both our candidates:
> - Experience with the rules
> - What aspect of PbP gaming they like best
> - Anticipated frequency of participation/posting




Experience:

I have experience both running and playing D20. I'm currently running a Saturday  maptools pathfinder game for some of my old college buddies as well as DMing a PbP Pathfinder Shackled City game here on ENWorld. 

Shackled City IC Thread
Shackled City Obsidian Portal

I have located the core rules for Saga edition but I have never played. However, the rules seem very D20 to me. Nothing unusual.

What I like about PBP:

Shared story telling. The lag allows you to really think about and compose interesting posts. Its a lot easier to build a coherent story then say, during a table top game. You have a lot more time to respond as a DM when your players throw you for a loop.

Frequency: 

I can do at least once a day....maybe more depending (lunch break etc).

As far as character was concerned....I was kind of leaning toward a slicer/ranged character...So we'll see what I can come up with.


----------



## Binder Fred

Some thoughts on possible take-over candidates for Ahayford, Possum permitting and if you want to go that way, A:

1. Captain OKeefe, a white-haired female human. Her and her astromech droid Crash have so far only pilotted the team's spaceship, but she could come out on missions at the drop of a hat, especially if vehicles of some kind are involved. They are right now waiting in our Rebellion spaceship at the city spaceport.

2. A droid being the classical SW slicer character, how about TB itself? Definitively has all the limitations of playing an owned droid (Sloor is its somewhat-legal owner: "Gawt the papers right here!"), and only minimal character sheet changes realistically possible until we reach the end of this adventure segment, but its "awakening" might make for some downright challenging roleplay.  Presently with the group.

3. Warrick Raden, a sleazy devaronian. Very little is known about him (and so everything can be made up) except that he's an ex-gang leader, he's rumoured to be a spice addict and constantly tried to get his people invited into Darga the Hutt's organization. The rest of the team is seriously looking down on him right now, so you'd start at a sociological disadvantage. AND he may not survive the current battle (seeing as his death is the other team's "goal" ). Presently with the group.

4. Indirect connection to one of the existing PCs: Sloor has no doubt worked with a number of slicers/muscle during his carreer as a petty criminal, as has Mack in *his* carreer as a SWAT on Alderaan ("computer expert", they would be called then, I guess, working on the right side of the law and all that). Or he could be a Universal Geographics tech/cameraman/mixer/boss that worked under/with/supervised Mir before. Personnal connections in addition or instead of the above are of course a possibilty too (ex-boyfriend/girlfriend, close or distant friend, etc). Combined with "Captured as a slave" or "Reluctant servant of the Empire" this could make a great intro! 

(If you want a real shocker, there's also a certain force-sensitive ithorian mentor/protector that's common to both Mir and Sloor's background... )


----------



## Dr Simon

perrinmiller said:


> I have a few questions to ask both our candidates:
> - Experience with the rules
> - What aspect of PbP gaming they like best
> - Anticipated frequency of participation/posting




Lol! A job interview?

Well, experience-wise I've never played any Saga Edition in anger, but I've got many years experience of d20-based systems in general including 3.5, PF, Babylon 5, Arcana Evolved, Iron Heroes and 4th Ed.. Plus 13 titles in the Lazy GM series gives you a fairly good inside idea about unpicking systems. I'm more often GM than player, but I'm currently in Who Wants To Be Wayfinder, and I was also in Blackrat's After Earth d20Future game.

With PbP, I like that the slower pace allows time to develop characters and (as a GM) to have time to think about evolving plotlines that unfold according to the character's actions - at the moment I'm particularly playing with the notions of defining the whole world/setting around the character backgrounds and goals. I think it's kind of fun having a game where people from all around the world are involved too.

I'm usually online every weekday, sometimes weekends, but not always. I can't promise every day posting but I try not to be the one holding things up. It's a bit easier as a player to post a little something. As GM, I find the need to prep combat maps etc. or compose a long transitional post can hold things up. As player, you don't need to do these things.

I would also like to say that I have none of the above concerns about taking over a character. No offence to Toasterferret, but Darius doesn't seem to have a strongly evolved personality, apart from being the calm, quiet one. There isn't a detailed backstory either, which is good - I myself like a bit of Design-In-Play character development. If it was one of the other characters, I most definitely _would_ think twice!


----------



## Songdragon

Well... I am sure that Sloor has mentioned...

Sloor - Scoundrel - About the deal, having a good time, and bashing some heads together!
Mack - Soldier - All about ranged combat, former law enforcement.
Mir - Scout/Scoundrel (Force Sensitive) - Force using character 
Darius - Jedi (Player departing)

I am all for 5 characters. It does give a little more interaction than four. But that is the Possum's call and how he wants his game to run.

What is needed... a techie. Several of us can cover bits of it, but none are really proficient in more than one skill, if that.

Now if Perrin really wants to play his Jedi... and you do seem to be there PM  *nudge* Then someone well versed in ranged combat would be nice.

Saga Edition of Star Wars was the precursor to 4E, from what I got when it came out (I never played 4E). It did not go all the way, but cleaned up some of the former editions issues and added some easy to use rules. I am happy I got it... and am able to play it too!


----------



## possum

Both of the "candidates" sound very good and I'm sure that it would be hard to make a choice, as it kind of is right now.  What is everyone of my current players' thoughts on ideal party size?

***

As for the canon characters that can be taken over, I have to rule Okeefe out at the moment.  She's currently 6th level and too powerful to hand over right now.


----------



## perrinmiller

Funny, a year and a half ago, I asked to join as a 5th player and I was turned away. 

To me 4 players is ideal for multiple reasons. 

I often find that 5th player making it appear crowded, particularly when everyone is posting daily or more frequently. Some people are so eager they don't even wait for responses form the other players.  

However, based on our candidates answers, if everyone is on a comfortable pace of posting only daily or every other day, it will be fine from that standpoint.  

Re: Mack vs. Sonja.  Mack was my first SWSE build and not my best.  I do have another Soldier type running elsewhere with the same personality, so it is easy for me to slip into his character.  I have that same persona running in another rule set as well.  

Originally I wanted to play a Jedi, but I was late to the game and filled the hole on what was needed. Of course I graduated from rookie to journeyman since then too. 

If we do run ahead with 5, then Dr Simon might as well come up with an original concept too if he wants.  If they take over the skills/role Mack covers, then I would like to switch to Sonja just to finally have that personality in play.  If not, no big deal.


----------



## Dr Simon

Well, I've a couple of character concepts from the Revised Edition that might fit Mack's role, if you wanted to switch characters. One was a cool-headed Duros spacer, which might make the party a bit scoundrel-heavy (also depends on how likely it is to need PC piloting skills since we have an NPC pilot), the other a Gungan (don't worry, more the Captain Tarpals type than you-know-who) with a penchant for explosions; probably commando-tree soldier under Saga rules. I could mix and match aspects if desired. However, I quite like some of the support aspects of the noble as well. 

Well, ideas are there, just say if you need me or not.


----------



## ahayford

I'll will post some concepts tonight. Will try to come up with a techie and/or heavy. If you guys want to keep it at 4, I don't want to intrude. Let me know.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> I have to rule Okeefe out at the moment.  She's currently 6th level and too powerful to hand over right now.



Well frek, never would have guessed! Good thing Mack didn't get too fresh, eh? 



			
				Perrinmiller said:
			
		

> If they take over the skills/role Mack covers, then I would like to switch to Sonja just to finally have that personality in play.



Now *that* would be a heavy loss. Mack is part of the core group: it would be downright *strange* to play Sloor without him! No, no, no, no, no, no! <puppy-dog face, maximumm pathos> Think of the children, man.


On another tack, a bit late now but I think at least RX just had Cover, not Total Cover from our earnstwhile soldier of justice (Karg brother to the north possibly too). I have been wrong before though.


----------



## ahayford

So....I'm a bit confused....Should I be trying to write up a soldier techie, or a scout techie...I can go either way with it at the moment.


----------



## Binder Fred

Well, up to you really, but this *is* a fairly combat heavy adventure path. Mir, Sloor and TB all have Stealth capabilities and have had only a couple of opportunities to use them... so far.


----------



## ahayford

Well, I guess I was mostly just concerned about what characters people would be playing...I wouldn't want to hording in on someone's role.


----------



## perrinmiller

Skill Summary of Party Skills:
Sloor: Deception +9, Gather Info +9, Persuasion +9
TB: Treat Injury +14 w/ Surgical Expertise
Mir: Know Gal Lore +8, Survival +8
Mack: Know Tactics +7, Mechanics +9 (w/ visor), Use Computer +9 (w/ visor)

Sonja: Either Know Tactics +7 or Piloting +8, depending on the new character builds.

If possum okays five (we are just waiting on him to say "yes" I think) then we could use some more knowledge skills too perhaps.

I like the ideas of a noble and soldier techie, both geared towards range combat, if those are what you guys want to play.  Noble with Wealth can mean mucho good equipment.  Having another character with good persuasion wouldn't hurt either.

I am mulling over ideas for Sonja and Mack.  I think with a good story, Mack's departure will add some more depth to Sloor.  Sonja's background could easily have her on location and a previous participant in Darga's Arena.  Maybe she needs rescuing from slavery and Mack dies in a brave, yet stupid attempt to save her, trading his life for her freedom leaving girl in Sloor's debt of honor in his memory.  Then the besalisk can be a father figure if he is so concerned about the kids. 

re: other issue. It was hard to tell, I thought Mack did not have LOS so I readied an attack for maximum chance of success.  In hindsight, I should have tossed a grenade to go for both.  Even with the range penalty, I think my chances were better.


----------



## Dr Simon

Well, roughly:

*Mootay Utta, Duros Trader*
_Probable build_ - Noble2 (maybe educated talent and Linguist bonus feat)/Scoundrel 1 (probably spacehound talent). Could be willing to tajke a level in Scout (fringer) if a jury-rigging type was needed. 
_Personality_ - Mootay is a free trader who skirts the edges of legality, but is easy-going and knows no home except the space-ways. He's probably not overly committed to rebellion, but this new Empire is beginning to cramp his freedom. New rules, new laws, new burueacracy everywhere. He could well be an old associate of Sloor's.

*"Boomer", Gungan Veteran*
_Probable build_ - Soldier 2 (with commando talent tree, probably demolitionist)/Noble 1 (with inspiration or leadership talent), maybe swap out a level of Soldier for one of Scout and take survivor or camouflage talent).
_Personality_ - Boomer fought in the battle to drive the Trade Federation off Naboo. Once a mid-ranking member of the Grand Army, focussing on inflitration and explosives. He's quiet-spoken and likes to consider his actions carefully, but is also capable of adapting to combat situations on the fly. Boomer sees the formation of the Empire as a betrayal of all that he fought for. The Federation may be gone but what now replaces them is worse, and he has a vague understanding that the Empire was in some way responsible for the death of Padme Amidala, the first Naboo to try to understand the Gungans.


----------



## ahayford

Code:
	

Name: Zane Moraes    Age: 23
 Class: Soldier 2 / Noble 1
  Race: Human               Height: 6'1"                  
  Size: Medium              Weight: 190 lbs
Gender: Male                Hair: Brown
  Eyes: Brown


Str: 10 +0 (02 p)     Level: 03             XP: xxx
Dex: 16 +3 (10 p)       BAB: +2             HP:  
Con: 14 +2 (06 p)     Force: 17
Int: 14 +2 (06 p)     Speed:  6  
Wis: 10 +0 (02 p)      Init: +4      
Cha: 10 +0 (02 p)       ACP: -2     
                                      
Defenses:  
         Total  Level/Armor  Class  Ability  Misc
   REF:     +7           +3     +1       +3  
  FORT:     +7           +3     +2       +2
  WILL:     +3           +3     +0       +0

   
Weapon                  Attack      Damage   Stun    Rate 
      
Blaster Carbine         2 + 3 = 5      3d8    2d8    S,A
Vibrodagger             2              2d4     

Languages: Basic

Talents:
    *Armored Defense
    *Born Leader

Feats:
    *Armor Proficiency (Light)
    *Armor Proficiency (Med)
    *Weapon Proficiency (Pistols)
    *Weapon Proficiency (Rifles)
    *Weapon Proficiency (Simple)
    *Linguist
    *Point Black Shot
    *Precise Shot
 
Skill Points: 6, Class 3, Int 2, human 1
             
Skills                 1/2 Level   Ability  Trained  Total
Acrobatics                    +1        +3       +0     +4
Climb                         +1        +0       +0     +1
Deception                     +1        +0       +0     +1
Endurance                     +1        +2       +0     +3
Gather Inf                    +1        +0       +0     +1
Initiative                    +1        +3       +5     +9
Jump                          +1        +0       +0     +1
Knowledge Tactics             +1        +2       +5     +8
Mechanics                     +1        +2       +5     +8
Perception                    +1        +0       +5     +6
Persuasion                    +1        +0       +0     +1
Pilot                         +1        +3       +5     +9
Ride                          +1        +3       +0     +4
Stealth                       +1        +3       +0     +4
Survival                      +1        +0       +0     +1
Swim                          +1        +0       +0     +1
Treat Injury                  +1        +0       +0     +1
Use Computer                  +1        +2       +5     +8


Equipment                               Cost     Weight
Vibrodagger                             200         1kg
Blaster Carbine                         900       2.2kg
Security Kit                            750         1kg
Power Recharger                         100         1kg
UtilityBelt                             500         4kg
    *Medkit
    *Toolkit
    *Power Pack
    *Glowrod
    *Comlink
    *Liquid Cable + Grapple
    *3 days food capsules

Money:

550 Credits


[sblock="Background"]
So...lets try this from the top then shall we.

The disembodied mechanical voice spoke from behind the brilliant white light that was currently shinning directly in Zane’s face. It cleared what was probably its throat and began asking its question for what seemed like the hundredth time today. 

“Listen, can we speed this up? If you are going to space me I’d at least like to die while I still have all my hair.”

“Patience Mr. Moraes. An organization like ours needs to be very sure the people in its employ are who they say they are. You can understand the necessity of our our precautions I’m sure.”

Zane hefted his heavy republic issue combat boots up on the steel table in front of him and tried to get comfortable in the plasteel torture device that passed for a chair.

I’m not saying anything more until I at least get some coffee, I haven’t slept since you busted me out of prison. The blood your droid took isn’t helping me feel particularly cooperative”

“Very well Mr. Moraes.”

Not long after, a medical droid emerged from behind the corona of the light wit a simple tray carrying a plasteel mug of passable caffeine. Zane grabbed the mug and held it in his hands. The warmth felt good in his hands. He sometimes forgot how cold these ships could get. Despite its relatively poor quality, the coffee was amazing. It had been years since his last cup.

“Very civil of you...”

“Bael....you can call me Bael.”

“Very well then....Where shall I begin...”

“I grew up on a planet ripped apart by civil war. The war had been going on since before I was born, and continued through my adolescence. Eventually, the Jedi Council decided the conflict had lasted long enough and sent Master Rahm Kota to end it. I remember when he first arrived. He would come down to the refuge camps and speak to the people for hours. He gave us back our hope that we could change things. He took a bunch of homeless refuges and turned us into a fighting force. He is a great man......was a great man...hell I don’t know if he’s alive or dead.

Anyway.....After the civil war ended, we began picking up the pieces and putting our planet back together. Unfortunately, It was about that time that the Clone Wars were beginning to really kick into full swing. Kota’s force got conscripted into the Grand Republic Army. Our unit was one of the few non-clone forces in the entire army. It was hard to earn their trust at first, but eventually the clones learned to respect our unit’s abilities. 

After some time on the front lines, I earned a transfer from front line duty to boarding actions. My squad and I were stationed aboard Master Kota’s cruiser. When naval battles got really heated up, the droid ships tended to lose sight of small boarding craft like ours. We’d fly in, I’d slice an access panel, and then we’d fight our way to the command and control deck, disabling it from the inside. Other times, when subtlety wasn’t called for, we’d do what we called a plant and scoot. While slicing through the ship's computers is certainly quieter, a well placed thermal charge on the engines gets the job done.

Things were going great until Order 66. My men and I had been on loan to a clone cruiser at the time. In a way, we were lucky I suppose. We woke up one morning to find ourselves locked in our quarters. A large percentage of Kota’s men on the field were simply cut down for defending the Jedi. After a quick court martial, I found myself in the lovely Imperial accommodations you found me in. And now, I’m here....Aboard your ship enjoying your fine hospitality.”

Zane took another long draw from his mug.

“Well Mr Moraes, I think some congratulations are in order. Your tests came up as we hoped. You seem to be who you say you are.”

The light shut off with a loud thunk. After Zane’s eyes adjusted to the illumination, he could see several well dressed individuals sitting behind a pane of glass.

A dark skinned man spoke now, the mechanical perturbations gone from his voice.

“I have a job proposition for you Mr. Moraes. One I think you’ll like....”

[/sblock]

[sblock="Personality"]Zane is a soldier, first and foremost. Trained under the guidance of Master Rahm Kota, he is used to structured command. However, he is no mindless grunt. After a field commission during a particularly bloody battle against the Seperatists, Master Kota singled Zane out for officer trainer. Afterward, he was given command of a small boarding squad. Zane's loyalty is to the Republic, and he has a particular hatred for the remaining clone troopers, seeing them as traitors and puppets of the Empire.

Zane enjoys holochess and other recreational games of tactics. He also has a weakness for Sabacc...having played many games during his life as a soldier.

Zane is pretty easy going off duty, but in combat situations is completely no-nonsense, reverting to the combat discipline drilled into him by Rahm Kota.
[/sblock]


----------



## ahayford

How many credits should I have Zane start with for equip?


----------



## Binder Fred

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], did you see Mack's use of a Force Point here for a total of 18 on the roll?

_EDIT_= Is RX using special grenade rules? As detailed on p.155, grenades are to be targeted at the crosshairs between squares and radius calculated from there. With a blast radius of 2 on the usual grenade, there doesn't seem to be any way that one or the other of Karg brothers 2 or 3 is not in the area of effect...


RE Sonja, I think this is a big, big mistake that will tear the IC group apart. The whole point of having somebody take over Darius was to have minimal core-group disturbance. Now the new characters will outnumber the old. I am not *at all* comfortable with this...


----------



## ahayford

If you guys would rather I pick up an existing char...I can do that. Don't want to cause waves


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], did you see Mack's use of a Force Point here for a total of 18 on the roll?
> 
> _EDIT_= Is RX using special grenade rules? As detailed on p.155, grenades are to be targeted at the crosshairs between squares and radius calculated from there. With a blast radius of 2 on the usual grenade, there doesn't seem to be any way that one or the other of Karg brothers 2 or 3 is not in the area of effect...
> 
> 
> RE Sonja, I think this is a big, big mistake that will tear the IC group apart. The whole point of having somebody take over Darius was to have minimal core-group disturbance. Now the new characters will outnumber the old. I am not *at all* comfortable with this...




Force Point: You know the part of the post where I joked that you guys seemed to like missing things by one point?  Missed him by that much...    Same with Zayda.

Grenade: I am using the RAW regarding grenades.  The "crosshairs" of the explosion was Y11, Y12, Z11 and Z12.  I'm using an overlay that a friend created for her online game and placed them online for herself and others to use.  As far as I know, that blast was 100% correct.

Now for whether or not perrinmiller should play as either Mack or Sonja.  If it's any choice of mine (and it isn't, PM should play whatever character he wants too) I'd personally like to see him continue to play as Mack.

[MENTION=6680745]ahayford[/MENTION] : Third level characters start with 3,000 credits per Hero's Guide.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> Force Point: You know the part of the post where I joked that you guys seemed to like missing things by one point?  Missed him by that much...    Same with Zayda.



Oh, so Mack's first shot was a *miss*?? (from the description I thought it was a hit but that the 10 dam didn't mean much to Zayda). Man those guys are *tough*!

Re grenades, I guess I've been contaminated by the 4E burst concept, but I was doing it "pick crosshair center, 1 radius is the 4 squares around that, 2 radius is the 12 squares around *that*" and so on and so forth. Your way makes more RL sense though (closer to a sphere section). For my own edification, does anybody know where that's detailed in the RAW? Couldn't find it when I looked.


----------



## possum

No, Zayda has a Reflex Defense of 19.  Previously, he was brought to only one HP left.  That's what I meant.

As for grenades: They stupidly had no illustration for pretty much any of the area attacks, citing in a Jedi Counseling that for all intents and purposes they are the same as RCR and 3.5 D&D.  Now if I can just find the illustrations for those...

EDIT: It's in the back of the 3.5 Dungeon Master's Guide.


----------



## Binder Fred

So they are... 

Wow, looking at the 20, 40 and 80 foot radius ones, I can understand why they decided to simplify those things. No way you can re-create those on the fly in the middle of a gaming session!


----------



## possum

I can attest to that, especially the 40 ft. radius one.  I play a Druid in a Pathfinder Society game and Entangle comes up quite a bit when I play.


----------



## perrinmiller

Hmmm, I always thought Saga Edition was doing the same things as 4th Ed, that's why there are no templates.  A 2 square radius makes a 4SQ x 4SQ area.  That's the way we always played it.

On Mack's last turn, he used Battle Analysis, and I am not sure I got the results.

Before I decide what to do, will a new map update be coming?  Not sure I need one, but I am wondering if Mir's Mind Trick worked or not. That will certainly make a difference in Mack's target selection.


----------



## possum

It was in Jedi Counciling 107 where they stated that area effects were the same as RCR and 3.5 D&D.  

With the Battle Analysis, I thought that I stated that Zayda was is really bad shape.  That's all for the badly wounded, though.

If you need a map, ask and I'll get you a map.  It seemed like Mir's Mind Trick worked, but you can't fully tell yet.


----------



## Binder Fred

Yeah, Possum does this neat thing where you can only see the true effects of mind-affecting powers on the affectees turn (which makes a lot of sense when you think about it). It's the same for Sloor's Intimidation attempts.


----------



## perrinmiller

I was slammed yesterday and ended up going to bed early before finishing up things.


----------



## ahayford

Have you guys decided what you'd like to do with this game?


----------



## perrinmiller

ahayford said:


> Have you guys decided what you'd like to do with this game?



Still working on it, guys.

-----

Let's assume TF uses a FP, we need the hit. 

Particularly if Sloor doesn't spend the DP.  We sort of got ourselves  into a situation where we could not gang up on targets to take them down  one at a time so...

There is no reason to conserve the FP as we are getting close to leaving up again as well.  Pretty much use it or lose it.


----------



## Dr Simon

Let me know if you need me. If you decide you're fine with 4 players I'm willing to concede to ahayford; I've plenty to keep me busy


----------



## possum

Right after this fight you will level up.


----------



## Binder Fred

I didn't assign Sloor a destiny. Hm... [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], you know where the story path is going better than anyone; would you be willing to implement a "secret" destiny for Sloor? Give the big lug a few hints and off he goes.  PM me and we can discuss it (I'm thinking something along the lines of Destruction or, better, Education (specific person or founding/funding a pivotal organisation/gang/underworld network)?).









*OOC:*


EDIT = Off in the field till Sunday, so please expect the usual reduced posting rate, folks!


----------



## Binder Fred

Are we waiting for me? I'm waiting on Zayda to do my turn, but if need be, *do* assume Sloor will use a Destiny Point to make the attack a "miss" (i.e. I would like to leave the "clean off his feet" part there for effect - and the almost perfect match with Mir's actions "He's down, take a rest" - and continue on from there.).


----------



## Binder Fred

*OOC:*


This would seem like a perfect place for someone to take over Darius, right? In order to bring him to the present (i.e. the begining of his round), I suggest the following:








toasterferret said:


> Momentarily disoriented from the grenade blast, Darius renews his assault with the stun baton, fervently wishing he had his sabers.
> 
> 1d20+4=16
> 2d6+4=10



While his right baton forces the brute to block high, the other twacks hard against the opposite flank... right on a huge armored plate! 









*OOC:*


Darius uses a FP: 1d6=6





The Force is still with him though, as are the skills taught him by master Kwon: he manages to tweak the blow at the last second, turning it into a skidding strike over the plate and beyond, sizzling a line of hairy green flesh on his opponent! The move has thrown him slightly off balance though.



possum said:


> The two Karg brothers currently engaged in melee continue their assault upon their targets, swinging their blades at Sloor and Darius respectively.




"Oh, there goes Sloor... AND Darius. No, no, he's still on his feet. That was a miss. Somehow."









*OOC:*


Darius uses a Destiny Point to make the attack miss. 

With all that, I make him at 30/44 HP, 5/6 FP and 2 DP.






By the way [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], did that grenade take Zayda down??? Mack might be able/willing to take an aimed shot at him next round if he isn't...


----------



## possum

OOC: The grenade did indeed take Zayda down.  Let me get a new map for you all.

And I believe that we've come to a decision regarding our new opening; welcome [MENTION=21938]Dr Simon[/MENTION] to our group.  @ahayword , thanks for the interest and the interesting character concepts.

Dr Simon, can you take over Darius for now and then introduce your new character a little later in the future?


----------



## Dr Simon

Thanks, I'll try to get something up shortly, once I've re-read the current situation.


----------



## perrinmiller

Dr Simon said:


> Thanks, I'll try to get something up shortly, once I've re-read the current situation.



Sounds good to me.  I assume Darius is up (though I would take Binder's advice on the actions as they looked good to me  ).  Let me know when it is Mack's turn, please.


----------



## Dr Simon

Okay, I think I'm up to speed here. Can you just clarify something for me - Darius is currently armed with a stun baton only, right?  And Gamorrean 3 is on its way to attack the enemy droid after being confused by Mir?


----------



## Songdragon

Looking at the character sheet... the Stun Baton is what he has in hand now, he does have a Heavy Blaster Pistol and his Lightsaber (concealed).

Krag Bro 2 (one of the 3 Gamorrean's) is the one going to chat with the driod about throwing grenades at him. Krag Bro 3 is the one in melee with Darius.


----------



## Dr Simon

Ah, okay, that makes sense now. In which case, I think BinderFred's suggestion makes sense, I'll go with that for this round.


----------



## possum

You all beat me to it.  Songdragon is correct.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hm, [MENTION=21938]Dr Simon[/MENTION]? Not to put too fine a point on it, but the actions I described were to bring you up to the present (i.e. Use a FP on Darius' attack *last round*, use a Destiny point against Karg bro attack *this round*). Since Darius is last in the ini order, that means he still hasn't acted *THIS* round! Be a shame to waste it.  With the description you provided, I think you'd just need to add an attack and damage roll to be in business.

By the by, I'm going out again tomorrow, back on monday. Do my best to post once somewhere in there.


----------



## Binder Fred

Bad connection. I'll have something for you guys tomorrow.


----------



## Dr Simon

Are you sure? Not that I'm turning down a free attack , but I thought that the rolls I used from toasterferret came at the end of the round just gone. I think it might be less confusing now to wait until Darius is next up .


----------



## Binder Fred

Pretty sure. And seeing as Darius is down after that Karg + RX attack, it would seem he's got a vested interrest in taking down his Karg before that attack can be made.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> OOC: You can only move in a straight line during a charge unless you have the Improved Charge feat.



Uh, I *can* trace a straight line from Q19 to V18 (all in unobstructed terrain, I think). 

Or are you saying the charge line needs to follow the grid? If so, that seems to unecessarely bind a rule that makes perfect physical sense (you need to run straight at the target to gain Charge benefits) to a completely OOC convention (a square grid coordinate system to simplify combat). I mean, what if the grid was hex-based? Or the background map oriented just a little bit differently? Would the charge rules be applied differently for exactly the same starting and ending positions? That seems to fail the RL logic test in my book, but YMMV of course.


----------



## possum

You know, I've been thinking a lot about that rule.  As written, the standard 200 meter sprint cannot be performed, because you have to go in a straight line while running (the race itself is halfway on a curve and then a straightaway).

Okay, who's up for a house rule revoking this to as long as you have the movement and don't get ridiculous?


----------



## Binder Fred

Maybe an Acrobatics, Ride or Pilot roll to deviate from RL straight lines? DC set by the sharpness of the turn, min 15.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sounds fine on house rule.  Though I haven't had time to look closely.

Sorry, I will be slow updating or posting lite across the board this week.

I  need to do some job related stuff at night, severely curtailing my  gaming the next few days. Mentally wiped today, but I should be  recharged on Thursday/Friday.


----------



## Songdragon

Sounds good to me.


----------



## possum

Okay, that's pretty much a majority  .  House rule passed.  Charge works and HP taken off of the droid.


----------



## Binder Fred

[MENTION=21938]Dr Simon[/MENTION], you're up!


----------



## Binder Fred

Updated my post, since I was ninja'd by Possum. 

What about Karg Brother #2? Isn't he acting this round?


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> (( Move to O-8, Attack Krag Bro at R-13 with HBP



I don't think that guy exists (bug on the tac map?). Not unless RX had some weird mitosis power or something.


----------



## possum

No, he doesn't.  I think that I accidentaly pasted RX in there twice.


----------



## Songdragon

Alrighty then. I was wondering how that person got there.

I have edited my last post, and hopefully ended our little battle.


----------



## perrinmiller

In case there is confusion, Mack's coughing was a why he said "excuse me".  His voice is still low, talking only with his companions, not Darga.

I figure that if TB can pass a DC30 Knowledge life sciences check, he might be able to identify Mack's disease, characterswappingitis.  Then it will take a Treat Injury check of probably DC30 as well.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> In case there is confusion, Mack's coughing was a why he said "excuse me".  His voice is still low, talking only with his companions, not Darga.
> 
> I figure that if TB can pass a DC30 Knowledge life sciences check, he might be able to identify Mack's disease, characterswappingitis.  Then it will take a Treat Injury check of probably DC30 as well.




I've had a couple of my very early RPG characters come down with that.  Never exhibited symptoms, though, they just never showed up that next session.


----------



## perrinmiller

So far I am just foreshadowing. 

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION];  If you can give me a little bit of info to work with, I can mentally begin drafting how write Mack for exiting and Sonja coming in.  Dr Simon might also need some of this info too.


----------



## possum

All right, everyone.  Level up one, please.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> All right, everyone.  Level up one, please.



Will do!


----------



## Songdragon

Oooo... Yay!

Sooo... do I go soldier for the Treat Injury... and Tough as Nails (an extra Second Wind)... or Jedi (she's not a real jedi perse, but been around a few, and then likely take Acrobatics and some force talent.

I am waiting the Jedi stuff, but storywise, this has not yet come to Mir I am thinking. She has met a few, but the Soldier fits more at this point in the Campaign. I will take it eventually though. 

Possum... are the Agent of Ossus (p. 91, from Force Unleashed Campaign Guide) available? Maybe not right where we are... but in general.


----------



## perrinmiller

Mack's level up completed.  Took Soldier 4.


----------



## possum

Songdragon said:


> Oooo... Yay!
> 
> Sooo... do I go soldier for the Treat Injury... and Tough as Nails (an extra Second Wind)... or Jedi (she's not a real jedi perse, but been around a few, and then likely take Acrobatics and some force talent.
> 
> I am waiting the Jedi stuff, but storywise, this has not yet come to Mir I am thinking. She has met a few, but the Soldier fits more at this point in the Campaign. I will take it eventually though.
> 
> Possum... are the Agent of Ossus (p. 91, from Force Unleashed Campaign Guide) available? Maybe not right where we are... but in general.




Not really.  As far as I can remember, they never really show up in the campaign.  Sorry about that.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sloor updated to 4th level. Added a level of Scoundrel, since he's been doing mostly scoundrelly things this time around (and enjoying himself immensely doing them ). +5 HPs, +1 Base Attack, +1 Talent (Knack), +1 Str and Con.


----------



## Songdragon

Question: Regarding the force, unless the effects are obvious (force lightning - lighting being thrown about, force blast = a bunch of debris flying at someone and that sort of thing) if someone uses a force power (mind trick, farseeing, telepathy) does someone know these powers are happening? I have not read any Star Wars so I do not know hot things are portrayed. It just seems unless there was cause, no one would know certain force powers are even in use. 

Is this a correct view of powers?

As for Mir leveling up...

+1 to Intelligence and Wisdom (4th level)
Soldier (level 1)
+ 7 hit points
+ 1 bab
Treat Injury added as a trained skill due to increased intelligence
Rodese (due to increased intelligence) 
Martial Arts I (if approved by Possum in lieu of Soldier feats)
Tough As Nails


----------



## Dr Simon

I'll level up Darius; another level of Jedi seems to make the most sense. How are you doing hit points? Roll or some kind of fixed rate?


----------



## perrinmiller

It is 7HP + CON.  That is according to the Dawn of Defiance Campaign Standards.


----------



## perrinmiller

Songdragon said:


> Re Force Powers:
> Well... the 3 Force Powers that Mir did use would be rather difficult to  detect, since none had any visible effects. The first two were Mir  turning to the Krags and suggesting to them to do something... odd  yes... and they might watch her for 'something'. The Vital Transfer, was  Mir merely giving Sloor a helping hand but all looks. Trying to keep  any flashy abilities to a minimum



This issue came up in the SWSE game that I am running as well. It really isn't covered in the rules.

What we decided was that if a Force power needs a gesture or other visual component (ie. Force Slam, Force Grip, Move Object), the Force User could roll a Stealth check to hide/mask it.  But for some things without a visual cue, only another Force User would even recognize the action if they were in a position to Perceive it.  That only hides the source of the Force Power, not the effects of it, of course.

But the really obvious ones like the Force Shield and Negate Energy could not be hidden.  The effects would probably be seen by anyone with LOS.

Mind Trick, would probably not be noticeable, except to the person she tried it upon and failed.  Same with illusion, but maybe that one needs a stealth check to hide a hand gesture?


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> This issue came up in the SWSE game that I am running as well. It really isn't covered in the rules.
> 
> What we decided was that if a Force power needs a gesture or other visual component (ie. Force Slam, Force Grip, Move Object), the Force User could roll a Stealth check to hide/mask it.  But for some things without a visual cue, only another Force User would even recognize the action if they were in a position to Perceive it.  That only hides the source of the Force Power, not the effects of it, of course.
> 
> But the really obvious ones like the Force Shield and Negate Energy could not be hidden.  The effects would probably be seen by anyone with LOS.
> 
> Mind Trick, would probably not be noticeable, except to the person she tried it upon and failed.  Same with illusion, but maybe that one needs a stealth check to hide a hand gesture?




There's also the fact the majority of the audience was likely paying more attention to the "light show" going on at the moment as well.  I'm going to keep a little tight lipped on this, though.  I could have it come up later...

[MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION] : Do you have every single starting feat for Soldier?


----------



## Songdragon

Possum...

Mir does not have the armor proficiency (light, medium, or heavy) feats

Mir does have the Weapons (pistols, rifles, simple)

I believe, Sloor talked to you about letting him have Martial Arts I.

I would even be okay with advanced weapon (vibroblade / vibrodagger) (kinda like a non--proficient person in D&D and picks up a single martial weapon.

Whichever you are fine or not fine with Possum.


----------



## Binder Fred

It was WP(Advanced Melee).

Re the Force Use, I do agree no glowing lights were likely involved. In my mind most people in the SW universe are Force savvy though, meaning they know it exists and probably have exagerated ideas on what it can and can't do. It is also true that two Karg brothers acted moderately to very strangely just after Mir talked to them, the later case just in front of Darga's balcony. It's not entirely unlikely for somebody that knew Zayda's team to get just a bit curious and go talk to the two brothers about it. And then... No certainty, sure, but suspicions? Maybe.

Not that selling us out is Darga's only possible response to even blatant Force use, of course. He could be very pleased to have that kind of talent working for him, under the Empire's nose, so to speak; it gives him possible blackmail leverage against us - always nice to have if you need it - giving him a sense of control; AND, he'll possibly reason, he can always decide to sell us out if/when an opportune moment presents itself (we're money in the bank, ready to be spent ). 

Now if somebody *else* clicked, someone with their own personal agenda, then that might be a problem...


----------



## Binder Fred

Ack! Almost forgot to post this yet *again*:

Nice fight everybody! I particularly liked the contrast between Darius' "calm and controlled" style vs Sloor's more gut-level figting. Nice way to come in swinging, Dr Simon.  Can't believe how lucky we were on our rolling either. Average to slightly disappointing damage, but I don't think Sloor missed once the entire time!


----------



## possum

It got a little hairy for you guys for a while, I think, but then Mir neutralized 2/3 of the heavy hitters and then it got really easy.

And [MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION] : Go ahead and take the feat.  As far as I know, I never outright said that you have to have all of the feats to qualify for taking the Bonus Feat as a class feat.  I may implement in a future game, but not in this one.


----------



## Dr Simon

Thanks BF. Wasn't sure if I'd have much of a character to take over for a while there!

Possum, is it okay if I re-jig a few of Darius' feats? A couple of them don't seem to make much sense mechanics-wise. On a related note, shall I go ahead and stat up Boomer for later introduction? I don't mind carrying on with Darius until a suitable juncture comes up.

Edit: Actually I mean Force Powers. Feats are fine.


----------



## possum

Dr Simon said:


> Thanks BF. Wasn't sure if I'd have much of a character to take over for a while there!
> 
> Possum, is it okay if I re-jig a few of Darius' feats? A couple of them don't seem to make much sense mechanics-wise. On a related note, shall I go ahead and stat up Boomer for later introduction? I don't mind carrying on with Darius until a suitable juncture comes up.
> 
> Edit: Actually I mean Force Powers. Feats are fine.




No, go ahead.


----------



## Binder Fred

Dr Simon said:


> Thanks BF. Wasn't sure if I'd have much of a character to take over for a while there!



Yeah, that round was a potential disaster for both Darius AND Sloor. Thank god for Destiny points!


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> "Say, mate.  You mind if I keep the broken droid?  We sorta won the rights to him by trial of combat."  He asks the workshop manager as he pulls out his toolkit.



Wow. You're lucky TB's not there or you'd get an earful.


----------



## perrinmiller

Ha!  TB should remember who fixes him.   Never a good idea to annoy the mechanic. LOL


----------



## possum

So, how's everyone on being ready to move on?


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry for the slow posting: busy yesterday (complex field trip starting tomorrow) and twitchy internet today. 

I'm good for moving on, Possum.


----------



## perrinmiller

Ready when you are.


----------



## Dr Simon

Fine with me!


----------



## Binder Fred

Wasn't as ready as I thought, apparently.  Wrapping up a 100m-dash sort of a trip to the field today and heading back home tomorrow. Should have something for you guys then.


----------



## possum

You know, there's one thing I love about this game.  There are parts when I can just sit back and watch you all take over for a while.  Keep up the good work, everyone.


----------



## Binder Fred

Back, finally. That was one *heck* of a busy spot, let me tell you, but vacation now. Va-ca-ti-on.... Sweet! 

And yeah, nothing better than self-motivating characters/players, is there.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry for the slow posting. Bit of a sluggish week roleplay-wise, what with getting back from vacation, the office christmas party and scrambling to get things back online at work.


----------



## perrinmiller

Heh? No worries, I took yesterday off and only posted 3 games out of...


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> Stealth roll, please, toasterferret?



I think he means you, Dr Simon.


----------



## possum

Gah...  I cannot believe that I actually did that.  I am sorry, Dr. Simon.  I think it was because I was reading through old, old posts.

I still need that Stealth roll, though.  

((Posted before looking at the IC thread))


----------



## Binder Fred

In which case I think a Stealth roll might just be coming your way, [MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION]. You could include one in your post just in case and if you want.


----------



## Binder Fred

Feeling a bit under the westher, so to speak. Rested during the weekend but still not up to par, so expect slower posting until I beat this thing.


----------



## perrinmiller

Take care BF.


----------



## Binder Fred

Willco, good buddy.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> _OOC: Can I take a 1 on Perception to be ignorant of Sloor's Intimidation?_



I would tend to say that Sloor's success means Mack (and anybody who cares to as well) not only notices the attempt, but feels its intent as well. That's sort of the point of the skill, which doesn't usually grant a Perception-based saving throw (sort of included in the base roll, I would guess). Plus, in this case Sloor is not being subtle and this is a fairly small room...

As I said, up to you how he reacts, but I think he knows.


----------



## possum

I'm thinking it's more of a look of disapproval rather than an outright "attack", at least that's how I interpret it.  Act it out like you want to act it out, PM.


----------



## Binder Fred

*Ritual baring of the teeth*



possum said:


> I'm thinking it's more of a look of disapproval rather than an outright "attack".



Bit stronger than that, and "not yet".


----------



## perrinmiller

Okay, I think I acted how I wanted already, pretty much choosing to ignore/misunderstand the look.

Justification, Sloor is a friend and everyone is acting.  So regardless of Sloor's intent, Mack probably would not think it to be real.

I did add in a sentence to my IC post and moved his first dialog up in the post.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:
			
		

> perrinmiller said:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> No offense, but you really have  no business rolling a skill check against another PC.
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Get real. If it makes sense in character (and it makes a good story), I  have every business shooting Darius in the head without warning. That of  course goes triple for anything that's far less lethal.
> 
> The PC/NPC distinction that seems to exist in your head does not exist  in mine. Not anywhere to that degree anyway. Friend/ennemy/rival, now  that's real.
Click to expand...


First of all, I am not criticizing the IC actions of Sloor, nor should I be criticized on how I choose to react with Mack.  Not really the issue since it is all proper RPing.  

But traditionally, you do not roll social skill checks against fellow players.  While SWSE doesn't specify, the d20 system is comes from did.  Normally, you want to intimidate a PC, you write it and they decide how to react.  Which is what we did (while I just ignored that BF rolled the dice). 

However, if this is a PvP game, that is news to me and I want the GM to say so. Right now we are not on the same page here.

If we are in a PvP game, rolling Intimidate with a FP is a hostile action in my book.  I am pissed enough about BF's reaction to this in PMs (since I have no idea why he felt it even necessary use a FP in the first place), that I am tempted to use DP and critical Sloor with Mack's blaster rifle for taking a hostile action out of the blue, betraying their friendship.

Frankly, keeping it real is all well and good, but rolling dice against fellow players is against the spirit of teamwork and threatens to ruin an almost two year friendship.  

As a DM I don't allow in my games for this reason, there is no benefit to out-weigh the negative aspects.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> If we are in a PvP game, rolling Intimidate with a FP is a hostile action in my book.  I am pissed enough about BF's reaction to this in PMs (since I have no idea why he felt it even necessary use a FP in the first place), that I am tempted to use DP and critical Sloor with Mack's blaster rifle for taking a hostile action out of the blue, betraying their friendship.



... This is what I meant by "get real". Sloor has just given Mack a hard look telling him to "Back off!". I rolled the dice specifically to give us guidelines to judge if it was a terror-of-the-ages, competent, easily ignored or even laughable attempt. I specified, twice, that it was up to you to judge how he reacted, meaning, in my book, that you certainly did not have to run away, but that the roll did indicate that Mack perceived the look and its emotional backing (a "success"). You chose, not to try to ignore the look, but to have Mack not percieve it at all. i.e. you chose NOT to roleplay the situation, hence my initial disapointed PM. To me the roll only quantifies the actions taken, it does not change them in any way: they remain exactly as described (a hard look by Sloor) and this is what your character should/should have reacted to. Why putting a roll next to it is such a big deal for you OOC I have no idea. I have personnaly been Charmed (the spell, which I did not enjoy, granted), and seduced and outwitted and scared away by social skill rolls before, both by PCs and NPCS. I did not consider them attacks when they came from one and normal social interactions when they came from the other. I guess our gaming experiences differ.

Now if you truly believe the proper IC response to a hard look is to shoot the other person dead, a nominal good friend at that, then I fear we have little to talk about. That's so far outside the realm of what I consider normal interpersonal relationships that it leaves me entirely... puzzled. Come on, don't tell me you shot every friend you ever had a disagreement with..? And don't tell me you never had (sometimes strong) disagreements with friends,  cause I won't believe you. 

Fred "case in point?"


----------



## possum

I can see that this little encounter is obviously causing friction and while it's too late to take it all back, I can only do my best to make sure that it doesn't get worse.  That said, I'm completely ending this encounter where it stands.  You are all able to get past the guard checkpoint without any major penalty.

We've been playing for nearly two years now and I would absolutely hate for it to end like this.

As for whether or not this is a PVP game or not...  I'm hesitant to say yes or no: to put it quite simply, if the story demands that a character turn against another character (and I mean legit demands it) it should happen.  That said, these situations very rarely should come up in my opinion.

JT


----------



## perrinmiller

You don't have to be hasty, possum. 

I have had disagreements with others like this and continue to play along with them afterwards without issue.  Mainly because (I hope) there is still mutual respect between BF and myself.

BF's comments and my responses in PMs (from my phone) caught me at a time where I am dealing with multiple OOC dramas at once. So I am a bit touchy perhaps. I have since eliminated one thorn (booted him from my game) and choose to ignore the other idiot.

However, I still don't think BF needed to roll the dice & use a FP, so my reaction about shooting Sloor was more about OOC perception than anything else.  

Perhaps my writing did not convey properly what I am thinking Mack perceives (since I cluttered things by asking about Taking a 1 on Perception):
- He has no clue why Sloor is glaring at him, since he is acting a part to keep Mir from having to drink.
- He has been drinking, so that is cluttering judgement.
- He is thinking with the little brain and not his noggin (+2 bonus to Will? )
- Figures Sloor is acting a part in the charade

Regardless of his use of the roll, I still don't think a PC should roll dice to influence another player's role-playing. So, right or wrong I pretty much ignored the roll.  But, wasting an FP on it struck me as I was being forced into certain behavior.  I guess that is not the case and I misunderstood. 

I had a SWSE game where another player used Mind Trick on me without even an OOC "Excuse me" before or later. The GM essentially endorsed it.  Needless to say, I dropped that game shortly thereafter since that was very inconsiderate behavior.  So I am very touchy on people rolling social skill checks PvP.  

Another experience I have had is people rolling them to make up for piss poor writing in interacting with other PCs.  Again, not the case here, but where my feelings on the subject have been tempered.

Granted, if there is a time to have a player turn to the dark side, then that is a different situation and not what we are discussing.  I have had agreeable PvP combats before without worry.

I will post Mack tomorrow. I am assuming that we have pretty much resolved our disagreement and can continue without needing to prematurely end the scene.


----------



## Binder Fred

We seem to perceive social skills differently. Rather than force someone into a specific set of actions (like Mind Trick), I see social skill as mostly emotion-based: they instill a (sometimes overwhelming) feeling of fear/attraction/calm/camaradery/etc -- and there you have no choice but to feel it. But what you do with this emotion afterwards will vary widely depending on the character and the exact situation. 

In that vein and just to play devil's advocate, IF we were in a life and death situation AND facing ennemies/strangers, a direct attack might be an entirely reasonnable response to a critically successful Intimidate roll. Intimidate triggers fight or flight responses, and sometimes you get Fight (with, I'm hoping, a sizeable malus for the shaken nerves/recklessness involved). That's a successful intimidation attempt in my book. Most responses should fall well below that though, and I think Possum handled it very well in our fight with Ganga the Chevin gangboss for example.

I should definitively have specified Sloor was going for "Back off!" instead of "I will kill you!" though. You know what they say about "assume"... 

Other minutia:


perrinmiller said:


> However, I still don't think BF needed to roll the dice & use a FP.



I used that FP for the same reason we always use FPs: though he doesn't quite know it yet, this is something important to my PC.



perrinmiller said:


> - He has been drinking, so that is cluttering judgement.



Contrarely to Sloor who is stone cold sober.  Also something to remember on your side of things. 



perrinmiller said:


> - Figures Sloor is acting a part in the charade



And he decided NOT to play along? That's gotta be drunk logic, right?



perrinmiller said:


> I am assuming that we have pretty much resolved our disagreement and can continue without needing to prematurely end the scene.



Well I don't know: when I read Possum's post I had a flash of Sloor suddenly finding himself walking into the dungeon with the others, his lower left hand sore for some reason and pausing mid-step... "I didn't say anything embarrasing back there, did I?" 

<Response Mack?>

i.e. I could go for either version. Let us know what you prefer, Possum.


----------



## possum

I think that I'll continue on with the thread as it is.


----------



## perrinmiller

Perhaps I am coloring the experience with my unconscious thinking in terms of d20 rules (to include PF) where Intimidate is to force an NPC to move temporarily towards Friendly on the attitude track or to demoralize an opponent. 

After my over-reaction, I did go back and review the SWSE rules and familiarize myself with the difference.

Like I said, I never had issue with the IC content, just stubbornly resisting being told how my character should react to something.  Since that was not really what was going on, I have no real issue. 

Of course, I tend to leave the dice alone when interacting with other PCs, even when effectively using social skills.  I just write it as making an off-the-books Take 10 on the skill most of the time.  Though, most of the time I don't really even think about it.


----------



## Binder Fred

The "backing down" part seemed to fit anyway.

Ah well. A nice little party on saturday (happy birthday Fred! ), followed by a glorious glut of absolutely nothing on Sunday and I'm rearing to go once more: Will Mack ferret out what's really going on in Sloor's extra thick head or will it be _partie remise_? How many drunk jedis fit on top of a pin anyway? And just _what_ is going on in Mir's head during all this? All these answers and many more in our next installement of D*awn of Defiance: the soap edition*!


----------



## Binder Fred

I'll be chairing a convention session next week, folks, so expect slower postings blablabla.


----------



## perrinmiller

Don't it hurt when you brain them with a chair? 

Not sure if it really impacted my posting with Mack, but work schedule had me slow across all my games in general.  I go back to normal schedule next week.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Don't it hurt when you brain them with a chair?



Guess I'll find out tomorrow.


----------



## Binder Fred

Short on time today. More tomorrow.


----------



## Binder Fred

Arg! Ninja'd by Possum and I have no time right now: contrarely to plan, I missed one of my conecting flights so I'm still in /$?%?!/$? airport limbo right now. Possum, could we pause your post until we wrap up all the "dungeon" threads? I'll be back tomorrow for the answer.

Fingers crossed,
Fred.


----------



## possum

That's fine.  Hope you get a new flight soon.


----------



## perrinmiller

{flap, flap}

or

Have Sloor use that persuasion skill.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> That's fine.  Hope you get a new flight soon.



Still in the airport, but should be home this afternoon. <Yeah!>

As an aside, shouldn't TB have warned us that somebody was coming? If you recall, it (TB) was stationned at the top of the stairs leading down to the guard room for just this purpose. He has a live comm link with Sloor right now as well. 

(BTW, if you want to cut the dungeon talk short, a warning from TB will no doubt do it too ).

Homeward bound,
Fred.


----------



## Binder Fred

Home!


----------



## perrinmiller

Yay!


----------



## Binder Fred

Heading out again on saturday, another convention. The company is putting a lot of effort into promotion this year.; hope it pays off!   Back to normal a full weak later on the following saturday.


----------



## Songdragon

*HAPPY 2 YEARS* all!!!!  

While we have seen a few others come and go, we have maintained most of those who started this campaign. I am not sure about all of you, but this is my longest running play by post. Big thanks for Possum for putting up with us too! May we have another great year of roleplaying enjoyment!!!


----------



## possum

Yeah, a very happy two years to all of us.  This is also my longest running PBP game and I certainly surprised in how we've been able to maintain.  Here's to the next year!


----------



## Binder Fred

*Here, here!* And as Songdragon once said: Yay us! 

My personnal record is three years and a bit in David Sharrock's Middlemist PvP dungeon, but Dawn of Defiance is now firmly in second place on the longevity scoreboard. Thanks Possum. Thanks Songdragon, Perrin and now Dr Simon. Only 8 modules to go!  

Travelling all day tomorrow, by the way, but will hopefully be settled in my hotel by evening.


----------



## perrinmiller

Congrats everyone. This is my longest game as a player and my first PbP game for playing and SWSE.  The only other game I have running longer is one I started DMing in PbEmail that ported over to a forum after I learned its virtues. And only my brother remains from that original cast.

I really value the experience, as my first game you guys showed me how it is done properly. We developed a good group that set my standards pretty high.

You guys have also ensured that I haven't quit from EnWorld as well after I pretty much dropped everything else here (except LPF) that did not fold on its own. I appreciate how lucky I was to find this mixture my first time. And to think I almost wasn't allowed to join. 

Ditto, yay us!  And Mack shot first.  I am still waiting for someone to email me that on a T-shirt.


----------



## Dr Simon

I think the key to this game's longevity is the great characterisation and the interacions between the characters, really brings it alive.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> You may have missed this bit, Perrin (emphasis mine):
> 
> 
> possum said:
> 
> 
> 
> "Yes," the droid states as he sees the frozen humans for the first time.  "That is not something that I was aware of."  He gives a slight shrug motion before leaving.
Click to expand...


I assumed he was still around since Sloor asked him another question and the droid had not responded yet.

I was thinking we might need to ask him some more questions about Demos.


----------



## Binder Fred

Welcome back Possum. Hope the convention went well?


----------



## possum

Convention went really well.  I did a lot of good shopping and got a bunch of the comics I need, making many more comics that I need...  Got a hardcover of Life & Times of Scrooge McDuck signed by Don Rosa as well as bought the newest Clone Wars mini-trade directly from the artist.

Went to a used bookstore chain and got some good RPG books, sadly none that will be used against you guys.  Mainly D6 Star Wars stuff.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sloor, at least, is waiting on the appearance of the medical droid plus or minus a reaction from Darga to his words. If he *doesn't* react, Sloor would like to try and bring back the topic of the slave pen inspection, you see... 



perrinmiller said:


> *OOC:*
> 
> 
> Sorry, sick in bed today



Get well soon, Perrin! Hope for all our sakes that it's just one of those 24h things.


----------



## possum

Yep!  Get well soon, Perrin.


----------



## Dr Simon

What? Sick now? Droop now? This sickness doth infect the very lifeblood of our enterprise. 'Tis a perilous gash. 'Tis a very limb, lopped off!

(Sorry, studied Henry IV pt. 1 at school and a lot of it stuck...)


----------



## perrinmiller

Heh, be glad it cannot be caught thru the Internet.  It was one of those days where I ached head to foot, including my teeth, fingers, and even my hair.  Yes, you know it is a bad fever when your hair hurts.

I am better now, posting catch up today. I am going to Okinawa for a 2 night vacation and will have my iPhone, but unknown status on the Internet. So I might scarce for the rest of the week.  I feel confident to be able to post at least once during that time.


----------



## Binder Fred

Are we waiting for something specific, or did our respective life-planes just hit a couple of RL busy patches? 

Just t be clear, Sloor is waiting for an answer from Darga and Demos, respectively. He's just gotten this idea he's now dying to pitch too. Hury, hury, hury, pretty please?


----------



## Dr Simon

I'm around, but I figure Darius is just watching Sloor do his thing and hanging back.


----------



## perrinmiller

I have been busy, but I have managed a few posts.


----------



## Songdragon

I'm still here... Sloor is the face of the group, and the fearless leader of the Crimson Fists


----------



## Binder Fred

Yeah. well, I guess everybody slows down to watch a bus crash, right?  

If you're going to be the peanut gallery on this perticular scene, at least make a snide comment behind my back now and then.  And maybe Darius could be the anouncer describing the blow by blow WWF-style.


----------



## Binder Fred

Tired. Sick. chily. Slightly feverish. Bloody flue has got me, folks! Back as soon as I can stand on my own two feet.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry to hear that.  Get well soon.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry for the dealy. Still not "well", but getting there. Worked from home today and going back to the office tomorrow.


----------



## Binder Fred

Fair warning everyone: summer field campaign starts next monday and it's going to be a big one! Expect slower posting pretty much for the duration.


----------



## Songdragon

Summer... Spring just started over a month ago...  The seasons go by fast enough these days. Stay safe out there Binder!


----------



## possum

Stay safe in the field, Binder.


----------



## perrinmiller

Time flies.


----------



## Songdragon

A question to get things clear... I think I am a little lost...

Sloor and Darius are heading out to pick up some items?

Tracker is for what, the carbonized Jedi?

At some point TB will be trying to get Demos away from the Hutt so he can be told of him being a traitor?

And Mir and Mack are doing, what?


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there Songdragon. The general plan, as I see it, is in three parts:

1. Captain o'Keefe aquires a tracker for us to plant on the Imperial's ship (or, failing that, maybe the corpsicles, as you say).

2. Sloor, Darius and TB go on a guided tour of Darga's slave facilities, for general recon, to closely examine some of those slaves that have apparently been the victims of the Sarlacc process - whatever that is - and to get Demos away from Darga.

3. Meanwhile, Mir and Mack approach the Hutt and reveal Demos' theachery using the droid's files and offer to investigate the majordomo *for* the hutt (we're hoping to gain info on ALL of Darga's little secrets that way, don't you know, including the Sarlacc ).

Makes sense?


----------



## Songdragon

Got it!  Thanks Binder.


----------



## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> (( I tried to look for it... but cannot seem to locate where/when. ))



Could it be this? Only bit of Mack conversation that's been interrupted recently that I remember.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks, BF.  That was it.


----------



## Binder Fred

Any response to Sloor+Darius from Demos, [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION]?


----------



## Binder Fred

*EDIT=* Decided to put the question IC after all (more dramatic ).


----------



## Binder Fred

Back in town for a well-earned week of rest. Posting should therefore be back to normal during that time. 

Aaaah, it's good to sleep in!


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], it appears that you forgot Mir and Mack on your last update.


----------



## possum

I did, thanks for letting me know.


----------



## perrinmiller

Back to you again, possum.  Mack and Mir posted.


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> due to the sad fact that humans are actually _cheaper_ than machines for the most part, the only mining that's done by droids in societies that accept slavery are minerals that are radioactive



The problem with slave mining is that you can't put heavy machinery and explosives in the hands of the slaves and not expect them to use them against you. Mining without heavy machinery/explosives is far from economical: sure, it costs much less per day to run your mine, but you're getting a minute fraction of the ore you could get out *with* machinery. It'll take you something like ten to a hundred times longer to get the same volume of ore out (a big nono if you're on a schedule). Depending on your slave overhead (procurement, living expenses, *security* expenses, problems with PR/the law), you might actually end up paying more *per grams produced* (in the case of gold for example) with pure slave labor.

So, in our perticular case, the question becomes: does the Empire want to waste precious time, pushing back an urgent project just so they can save a few creds and punish a bunch of rebels they could just as easily have executed and have done? Sloor is thinking no, so there must be some other motive besides punishing people. Adverse conditions for droid/machinery mining came to mind, either from the ore itself or the planet's local conditions (EM interference, unusual heavy-wear conditions (repairing droids is pricey), ore requires delicate manipulation during extraction (intact crystals required for use), droids difficult to quietly smuggle/maintain at that location (for political reasons?), etc).

 (I'm sort of "in context" right now myself, drilling to start a mine and all that, so this is closer to my heart than perhaps the story's RL accuracy warrants . Let me know if Sloor would just accept Empire slave mining at face value and he'll move on.)


----------



## possum

The info you say is pretty much accurate from how I understand it, Binder.  Thing is, there are likely tons of science fiction material in which humanoids were used over robots.  It's just one of those things that seems to be a Star Wars thing.  The Empire uses alien slaves.


----------



## perrinmiller

And the slaves don't revolt without a hero to lead them.


----------



## Binder Fred

Heroes are not born; they are made.


----------



## perrinmiller

Into the crucible of fire he must go, ne.


----------



## possum

Never would have I expected that this module would take a turn into this.  Nice job, everyone!


----------



## perrinmiller

Gotta like it when you take the thing off the rails, eh?  I have a friend who says they played the first episode of this series.  After I GM'd the first two encounters for her and few others, she said it was nothing like their first experience at all.

Apparently they went off the reservation right away.


----------



## Binder Fred

Just finished reading the thread: Excellent stuff guys! We're going to land this mother in *style*!  

By the way, I want to appologize for my absence this last week. We had a major twist in the project on monday and had to close down the entire thing in four days flat. Been running around like a chicken with three heads and falling down to bed as soon as I stopped (a bed where I, of course, failed to sleep, what with so many things left to plan/arrange). Anyways, I should still have dropped you guys a line to let you know, hence the apology. A special "sorry" to Dr Simon as well, for sticking his character in limbo for a whole week! Sorry about that, man.

New IC post in a second or three!


----------



## possum

PM: I'm finding myself trying to put it a little on the rails at times, I think I have a decent way to do it, but we'll see...

BF: Perfectly fine.  I certainly know that real life takes weird turns at times.  Welcome back!


----------



## Dr Simon

BF: No problem, I've been busy myself.

Possum: Nice one for rolling with it!


----------



## perrinmiller

Yay, us.

It is great that I have only managed two tiffs in the entire time playing this game.  We are still going strong too.  High 5's all around. 

Oh, and remember, Mack shot first.


----------



## Binder Fred

Going off on vacation with my family (didn't think I'd get one this year, but since the project is temporarely shut down and all, I'm taking advantage ). Anyway, I should be Away From Keyboard from tomorrow, noonish, until Thursday next week. Sorry about that, folks!


----------



## perrinmiller

What!?  You are not taking a laptop and getting on the Internet everyday!   tsk, tsk, tsk.  j/k

Have fun, BF. 

_pst, while he is gone can we make Sloor do something..._


----------



## perrinmiller

It looks like we are all being brought back together in the same scene.  But before I post again (since Mir hasn't responded yet to Mack's last post), I was thinking to let the past scenes all wrap up so we are all together once more.


----------



## perrinmiller

I don't know what the heck's going on, but I cannot access EnWorld from my home Internet most of the time for 2-3 days now.  No other issues to my other sites.  I appear to have no problem on my iPhone's 3G network.  But I cannot post IC like this.  Grrrr.


----------



## Binder Fred

That was a long pause for people not presently stuck in the limbo of a drilling campaign. I was begining to wonder if my post had gone transparent or something.


----------



## possum

Sorry, I've been a bit lazy and I was out of town on the 23rd and yesterday.  I think I actually got on international television for half of a second there.  I went to St. Louis to attend the 1,000th episode of a wrestling show.  It was pretty fun, even though I couldn't see anything that was happening on the entrance ramp.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry. Failed Fort Save, sick in bed for second day.


----------



## Dr Simon

As for changing characters, I don't mind - I'm quite enjoying playing Darius at the moment. I'm not particularly fixed on playing Boomer and I'm quite happy to do something with Mizza if Perrin really wants to change.


----------



## perrinmiller

I kinda assumed you were posting lite and infrequent because you were not so keen on Darius. 

I still don't have a Jedi in play in other games, but my other soldier is no longer in an active game either. I have waited this long, I can wait longer before playing the Sonja Kuurzon character in another game. It is less disruptive to change so Mack might as well stay.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> I kinda assumed you were posting lite and infrequent because you were not so keen on Darius.
> 
> I still don't have a Jedi in play in other games, but my other soldier is no longer in an active game either. I have waited this long, I can wait longer before playing the Sonja Kuurzon character in another game. It is less disruptive to change so Mack might as well stay.




Well, it's up to you to do what you want, as I really don't mind either way.


----------



## Dr Simon

perrinmiller said:


> I kinda assumed you were posting lite and infrequent because you were not so keen on Darius.




There's not been a lot for him do of late, and his build is such that he's pretty much sunk when pretending not to be a Jedi, but to be honest his taciturn nature is quite useful when I'm too busy to post properly!


----------



## perrinmiller

Fair enough, unless Dr Simon changes his mind, Mack will stop having those nose bleeds.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sorry for the delay: hitting a busy-er patch again. I think this past scene will be on the director's cut version of the film anyways.


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries, mate.  SD is busy too, I think.


----------



## Binder Fred

Going back home today. Should have a post for you guys tomorrow!


----------



## perrinmiller

I head out tomorrow for a few nights stay in the wonderfully small  island of Saipan. Staying in a Pacific Islands Club hotel. 

Last time I  stayed at one of those places (my trip to Guam if anyone remembers from 2 years ago), they only had WiFi available in the  lobby, but I was able to find a couch to sit and post some with my  laptop. So I might be running silent and dark for a few days since the  situation is unknown. But, I should be resuming normal posting schedule on the weekend.


----------



## Binder Fred

Happy vacation, Perrin! Hope you get that WIFI for our own selfish sakes.


----------



## possum

Have a good vacation, Perrin.


----------



## Binder Fred

Sort of waiting for the negotiator's reaction to all this.


----------



## perrinmiller

I am home once more, and catching up.  WiFi at the hotel was only available in the lobby and I did not have much time to get anything done at EnWorld.  Sorry.


----------



## Binder Fred

Back! And likely for the last time this year: should be home at least until Christmas.... Boy, those four months have been one of the hardest things I've ever done! Like running a 100m dash on marathon-scale distances... Whoo!


----------



## Binder Fred

No reaction from you guys, Songdragon? Perrin? This might just be that dramatic pause before the storm we've been waiting for, you know.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry, I haven't disappeared.  My last post was directed at Mir, but SD is busy so I have been waiting.


----------



## Binder Fred

And we're off again! Thanks SD.


----------



## perrinmiller

Rolling, rolling, rolling.


----------



## Songdragon

Sooo... I did some post searching (going through a lot of pages, page by page from the the Traitor's gambit thread, the current campaign thread, and the ooc) and could not find anything about earbud communicator. I found that our comms got some scramblers on them from Organa, but that is is.

I read somewhere from Binder that threads were searchable, but still cannot see anything that would let me search threads.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey there Songdragon. Upper right, just below the list of pages (Page 1 to XXX) you have LinkBack, Thread Tools, *Search this Thread* and Display Modes. You have to be logged in, of course.


----------



## perrinmiller

So no earbud commlinks? Nice group of commandos we made on Felucia. 

So you guys, have hands-free then instead? Or no? Sheets had nothing, but we are not the best at bookkeeping, lol.

Maybe should get some earbud ones as soon as we can.


----------



## Songdragon

Well... I have no search function. I do not have a Community Supporter Account either, so I do not know if that effects it at all.

And yeah, that might be a good idea!


----------



## Dr Simon

The only communicator I have down for Darius is a short range holo-comlink. Of course, I have the excuse that I didn't do the shopping, but it's not a very good excuse


----------



## Binder Fred

Idem for Sloor: Short ranged scrambled comm build into his holocapable datapad. TB has internal comm thought.


----------



## Binder Fred

Now that I think about it, *are* earbud comms part of the classic Star Wars feel we're going for here? Off the top of my head I can't think of an example of somebody using them in the movies or cartoon, but that might just be my faulty memory. I *can* think of two counter-example though (instances we're quiet comm devices would have made sense and have not been used). One are the commanders of the clone armies (jedis and non-clone officers, basically anybody not wearing a helmet) who all rely on palm-holo devices for communication in the field. The other is battle droids, who actually *talk* to each other instead of using their internal comms.... Thoughts?



Dr Simon said:


> I'm still here. Without a communicator, and seperated from the group, Darius hasn't had much of a chance to say much until now.



Well, I was sort of expecting that he'd do exactly what he did when he did want to talk (i.e walk over).


----------



## perrinmiller

Well, we are sort of in the time of Galaxy of Intrigue Source book, yeah? 

The original SW was just limited by 20th century ides for the future, why a commlink would be less sophisticated that a smartphone with bluetooth is sort of ridiculous with FTL travel.  

Sorry, just had to throw that out there and see if it sticks to the wall.


----------



## Binder Fred

Ah, but Star Wars *isn't* the future (see the very first phrase of the classic scrolling message: "Long ago, in a galaxy far, far away..." ). To my mind, Star wars is a space fantasy game, not science-fiction. Like Star Trek, actual hard science plays very little role in shapping the worlds of Star Wars -- and in the case of Star Wars, I think it works just fine. As to the expected curve of tech development having to mirror our own - well - you only have to look at any steam-punk creation to see that that's very setting dependant. If you can accept steam-powered clockwork robots before the invention of electricity, then FTL travel before earbud comlinks is a snap. 

I wasn't questionning the existance of earbuds anyways, just that, to me, wearing one doesn't seem to quite fit with the image I have of the genre we're trying to emulate: too... modern, I guess. Special Forces/Secret service-y. Now if we were playing Appleseed...


----------



## possum

I think I've seen some earbud-like objects while reading more modern EU stories, so I will certainly allow earbud comlinks.


----------



## Binder Fred

Oh and seems like we've just sashayed past the 1000 posts count yet again on this game. Second time and counting! Congratulations all!


----------



## perrinmiller

The trick is to reach 1000 posts without really doing a whole lot.  Then you know you are role-playing well I think.


----------



## Binder Fred

What do you mean "without doing a whole lot"??? Since yesterday morning we've met Darius, were brieffed by Verana, did some long-distance investigation on the way over to Cato Neimoidia, fended off an attack by a swoop bike gang, interrogate the hell out of their leader, convinced Radden to get us a meeting with Darga, won Radden's life in a hotly contested game of "Capture the Radden", partied the night away, didn't get to sleep because we had to *quietly* break into the palace's dungeon, planted a home-made tracer on our carbsickles, cat-napped, foiled a poisoining attempt over breakfast, smoozed the general location of the Tibanna plant off of Demos, broke into his office and revealed his traitory to Darga and finally negotiated a multi-million cred deal between our employer and the entire frekking Empire (or shadow arm thereof)!


----------



## perrinmiller

Heh, heh.  Binder, I was not commenting that WE have not done a whole lot.  Reaching 1000 posts for an IC thread is an accomplishment here at EnW, no doubt.

It was more an observation about other games where they are just role-playing and still reaching high counts.  The LPF game I DM is still in the process of getting to know each other and establish the plot hook to head off to a dungeon, and they just reached about 150 posts.  They only talked to two NPCs in that time.  I think they will hit 200 when they reach the opening encounter.

I was part of a pre-game IC thread (to allow applicants to try-out in a sandbox style format without the GM) and we hit almost 300 in a month.  That is when you know you are really role-playing, when you can post everyday without even needing a GM at all, they go on a vacation and you don't even miss them. 

I am way more impressed that we have 3 of the original players here and running for 2.5 years.  My only other game running longer is down to only me and my brother for original members, but it is still going too.

Heh, I am chatty today.  I am on vacation at home, nothing to do but sit in front of my computer this morning while my son is at school.  I am starting a new job on 9 Oct, transferring from being a contractor to a Federal Government employee here at the Air Force base in Japan.  I will have regular hours and less stress (I hope). I doubt, I will get the free time at work to post like I did before the big earthquake last year, but I could get some extra after I get settled into things.  The job this past year had very little opportunity.


----------



## Binder Fred

Hey, we have a lurker! Welcome to EN World, Johns. Glad you enjoy the game.  We enjoy it quite a bit too (thanks Possum).


----------



## perrinmiller

Didn't we arrive Darga's in our own speeder?  Maybe we don't need to steal one.


----------



## Binder Fred

We came in a skimmer Radden loaned us (described as "non-descript", as I recall ). *Might* still be around... Then again and on the other hand, considering Radden's rather precipitous exit he just *might*  have used it to carry out his own get-away.


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION], is our speeder still where we left it?  I think Mack would have kept the keys.


----------



## possum

I'd imagine that it still is.  I think Radden would have just ran as far from the palace as he could have.


----------



## perrinmiller

Thanks. Now Mack doesn't need to steal.


----------



## Binder Fred

Alright, just found out that I have to do an emergency fill-in over at one of our drilling campaigns (medical emergency apparently). Expect slower postings for the next few days, but I should be back by tuesday at the latest (i.e. I'll be back on tuesday ).


----------



## perrinmiller

No worries, mate.  Have fun, be safe.

I have been playing catch up all week.  I started a new job this week, and need to get up an hour earlier.  Translation, go to bed earlier and lose just over an hour of posting time. 

But, at least I am not longer the cable guy working for a company that people don't like and will be a government service worker instead. Say "hello" to being a bureaucrat.


----------



## Binder Fred

Good luck on the new job!


----------



## perrinmiller

So far being a Gov't Civil Servant has been boring, still in-processing. 

But at least I don't have to work overtime or weekends.


----------



## Binder Fred

What was that whole Frank488 thing (post was gone by the time I got there)? Did he try to impersonate Songdragon or something?


----------



## possum

Binder Fred said:


> What was that whole Frank488 thing (post was gone by the time I got there)? Did he try to impersonate Songdragon or something?




I must have missed it as well.  It could have been a spammer or something.

Good luck on the new job as well, PM!


----------



## Songdragon

The Frank person posted as Mir. it was a brief post, but not cool never the less. I reported the guy.


----------



## Dr Simon

You get spambots on this forum from time to time that simply repeat a chunk of text from earlier in the thread.

Odd, and kind of pointless as they often don't even embed a link in the post to the usual kind of spammer crap.


----------



## perrinmiller

Gave the guy the beat down. Yay! 

So far new job is boring, only can read Air Force instructions about things I will be responsible for until they get me hooked up with a computer login. 

By Wed it should be resolved.  Only takes over a week.  Gotta like gov't red tape.


----------



## Binder Fred

If nobody has anything else to add, then I gues it's time for the vote! Our options, as presented, are <drum roll please!>: Turn Back, Follow Only, Kidnap and Private Meeting. I'm voting we take the plunge and go Kidnap. What about you guys?


*For Dr. Simon: *I guess this is the first one of these we've done since you took over Darius. Basically an easy way speed things up. We abide by the will of the majority... unless we don't . i.e. we've never used it so far, but we do have the rule that, if you believe strongly enough your way is the right way, you can spend a Force Point to swing the vote your way. Others can swing it back by spending their own FP, and so on and so forth.


----------



## Binder Fred

[MENTION=21938]Dr Simon[/MENTION],  [MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION],  [MENTION=23494]Songdragon[/MENTION]? See post above, please?


----------



## perrinmiller

I have been undecided and have been posting such IC.  So I was waiting to see what SD and Dr S said here before weighing in.  Figured site bein down delayed them.


----------



## Songdragon

Turn Back... I could be convinced to Follow Only... kidnapping is out though.


----------



## possum

Yeah, the site outages have been throwing me off as well.  One vote currently for turning back, but no discussion.


----------



## Binder Fred

Discussion? Didn't we do that IC?

I voted for Kidnap myself.


----------



## Dr Simon

Sorry, been moving house. I'm for kidnap, but will give Darius' reasons for this in character.


----------



## Binder Fred

Two for Kidnap! (On an OOC note, whatever we think about our odds of success, this course has a pretty low chance of being boring ). Perrin, you're up!


----------



## perrinmiller

I think Mack originally suggested the kidnapping, IIRC.  So he is not  adverse to it from an IC point of view.  

Though, I sense a strong objection to the idea from SD.   Not sure she would burn a FP to veto the course of action or not, but  if I vote against the idea as a player we would be split. What then?   
 While it would be interesting and in many senses it is a choose  your own adventure situation, so we could be digging our own grave as the saying  goes.

 I had thought that we brought up a point that kidnapping the Imp  was going to undo the negotiations we worked on? That might not be important,  perhaps.

 Overall mission was fact finding. Accomplished, yeah? 
 Secondary mission, rescuing the carbonitecicles?  Kidnapping the  Imp doesn't further that goal.  At least I am not seeing it  accomplishing that goal yet.


----------



## Dr Simon

perrinmiller said:
			
		

> I had thought that we brought up a point that kidnapping the Imp  was going to undo the negotiations we worked on? That might not be important,  perhaps.




Well Darius for one couldn't give a pile of bantha poodoo if a deal between the Empire and a Hutt goes sour or not, and he'd tell you that in character!



			
				perrinmiller said:
			
		

> Overall mission was fact finding. Accomplished, yeah?
> Secondary mission, rescuing the carbonitecicles?  Kidnapping the  Imp doesn't further that goal.  At least I am not seeing it  accomplishing that goal yet.




I think it would help with the fact-finding, also tie up a potential loose end that may blow our cover. Darius isn't in the market for torture or brutality himself, but he's morally compromised enough that he'd be happy to hand her over to others for a spot of "extraordinary rendition".


----------



## Songdragon

PM does have the right of it for me... It is tempting to just have Mir get out and you three can go do what you want kidnapping and what not. (it would mean at best assaulting her escorts, at worst killing them as well. Considering they are clones, I do not see them going down without heavy interest.)

Mir could technically and quite likely Mind Trick everyone there... But then, that again is not how Mir would do things either... So the first option (Mir gets out you guys go do whatever you wish to do) seems the best for everyone concerned at this point. And I would have no hard feelings over you guys RPing things out on your end for however long you need to, either. I just do not like being forced along for the ride.

Just saying is all.


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Overall mission was fact finding. Accomplished, yeah?



Strongly disagree, as stated before (and in this case I agree with myself ).



perrinmiller said:


> Secondary mission, rescuing the carbonitecicles?



To be honest, this is VERY low priority on Sloor's list (calling it an objective would be stretching it even). The only reason he even cares is because Mir wants it (for some unphantomable womany/humany reason ).



perrinmiller said:


> I had thought that we brought up a point that kidnapping the Imp  was going to undo the negotiations we worked on? That might not be important,  perhaps.




It's actually the only thing that's bothering Sloor about the Kidnap plan, now that he's found a way around the murdery bits.

Well, we're going a bit in circles here, I think, the very thing the voting mechanism was designed to avoid. So, Perrin, please vote, either for Turn Back or Kidnap, or abstain I guess (the only options that will change anything at this point). Songdragon will then be free to decide if she wants to spend thast FP to change the vote to what she wants or go with what's below. "Strong objections" is exactly why this mechanism was built in, you know, so I say just vote for what *you* want and let's move on.



Songdragon said:


> The first option (Mir gets out you guys go do whatever you wish to do) seems the best for everyone concerned at this point. And I would have no hard feelings over you guys RPing things out on your end for however long you need to, either. I just do not like being forced along for the ride.



If you feel it's in character for Mir to leave them alone *specifically* because she thinks this is going to turn badly, then what can I say? Go for it. Sloor was going to offer to drop her off anyways if it came to that (had the thing already written) -- while of course actually strongly hoping she wouldn't take him up on it.


----------



## perrinmiller

I dislike schisms, but my IC post of holding off the decision to  execute the kidnapping was my vote. Only smart to be cautious on  feasibility before stepping into the drek.  

 Since I did not object, my vote is more like an abstention for OOC  purposes.  I am not able to convince you guys against it IC anyway,  since Darius is in agreement.  If Mack were to side with Mir on  principle (trying to win points to get in her pants  ) it would only  split the decision and we get us nowhere. {shrugs}


----------



## Binder Fred

Maybe it would help Songdragon feel better about using that FP to swing the vote to Follow Only (which is how I interpret your vote)? 

I don't know about Dr Simon (though I imagine he feels the same), but I would just like to specify that I am fully conscious that this is a game and I'm here to enjoy myself, i.e. my ego/self-worth/deep feelings are *not* deeply invested in this single decision. The FP mechanism has been put in place so that, if a player feels strongly enough about a course of action, then the strength of that feeling can be weighted against the (perhaps only lukewarm) preferences of the majority (who can then evaluate how strongly they feel about their own votes and decide whether or not to invest their own FP to reflect the strength of *their* conviction). i.e. it's a weighted average mechanism, nothing more. If you don't feel strongly enough about the matter to loose one more FP and (probably the bigger factor here, though I'm just guessing) risk the *possibility* of ruffling some feathers, then the system says your preference doesn't, in fact, outweight the preference of the majority. There's no need to make it any more complicated than that, or try to (counter-productively, IMHO) mind-read the other's possible reactions/degree of comitment beforehand. Let's just assume by default that we're all adults that remember they're playing a game and deal with any ruffled feelings if and when they arise. 

That said, I *am* (strongly) invested in telling a good, realistic story, and that (strongly) requires all characters involved take actions that make in story sense. At this point, after all the IC arguments, if Songdragon uses that FP, it would make *no* sense for Sloor and Darius to just meekly change their mind on a dime, so I think something would need to happen to make them realize the strength of Mir's objection. Let's use this disagreement, not as a hurdle to be overcome, but as an opportunity to say something about Mir as a person, as an opportunity to deepen our shared story (and what is said is of course ultimately up to SD, just brainstorming here). 

Mir leaving might be one way, though I think it unlikely it would change their minds, and it's not something that I would have thought would be IC for Mir (though temper will tell, and she can always regret/try to correct/burry it deep/shrug it off afterwards, of course, which will all tell us something about her). I think we can all agree though that in a purely OOC way, putting *a player* on the sideline is a less than desirable outcome all around unless the downtime is specifically what's desired (i.e. OOC reasons affecting IC behavior rather than the reverse). Another way might be if Mir felt trapped between the danger she sees coming (for her, her teamates and their mission as a whole), her frustration at not being able to make them see it and, at the same time, her need to protect them from it, precluding her outright withdrawal from the situation? That could lead to a variety of actions on her part (Simmering Resentment being the less interresting and most destructive possiblity IMHO), but considering her powers are mind/influence based and that SD herself mentionned the temptation of it, for-their-own-good Power Abuse might be a realistic, gut-of-the-moment reaction to the situation. It doesn't even need to succeed (or she can immediatly reverse it if it does), but it would be one heck of a cold bath (for Sloor at least), to see that she's willing to go that far. *Now* changing course could make perfect IC sense... What do you guys think? Anything spark your imagination in there SD?


----------



## Dr Simon

Binder Fred said:


> I don't know about Dr Simon (though I imagine he feels the same), but I would just like to specify that I am fully conscious that this is a game and I'm here to enjoy myself, i.e. my ego/self-worth/deep feelings are *not* deeply invested in this single decision.




What he said. As Dr. Simon, I'm not fussed either way the decision goes, and I agree with BF that the inter-party disagreement is a good opportunity for character development.

As for Darius, he's pretty single-minded when it comes to the Empire, but he's not so invested in the kidnap option as to forgo everything else.


----------



## perrinmiller

I am still thinking about this while SD decides what to do about Mir. 

Honestly, if we don't kidnap the Imp, I am not sure what we are doing next either.  Sorry, I am feeling a bit lost with too much freedom of choice, perhaps.


----------



## Binder Fred

Nice, isn't it?  Or it may be that we're so in synch with the story right now that we don't feel the rails at all, like a balloonist that doesn't feel the wind because he's travelling at exactly the same speed/direction. 

As for things left to do, the Demos situation is lacking a proper conclusion at the moment (Sloor has a few thoughts on why that might be). Then there's furthering the Bespin thing, of course. Somehow acquiring the corpsicles. Oh, and there's the "Base 8 vs Base 10" pit trap that we have yet to find out we triggered. 

But you're right, Perrin, these all feel sort of... sidequest-y compared to the Victra path (at least to me; might be a heat-of-the-moment thing though ).


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> So, it seems like the group is going to move on the Imperials.  I think that I'm going to use the Swoop Gang map from earlier if no one objects to seeing the same map twice.



No objections per se, though that was a pretty drab map as I recall (basically an open field with craters, right?)... How about the map of the initilal Sel Zonn promenade encounter (we never actually saw that one)? It could represent a (relatively quiet) alley were we managed to catch up to the Imperials? Cover items present on that map could now be garbage, crates, futuristic fire hydrants/cred machine/public "scooter" rental stands/what have you?


----------



## perrinmiller

I thought you had a decent mapping program, possum. What do you want, I might have it or can make it in 30 minutes?


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> I thought you had a decent mapping program, possum. What do you want, I might have it or can make it in 30 minutes?




Sadly, the Dungeon and Galaxy Tiles that I've scanned do not have anything passable for a futuristic city street.


----------



## perrinmiller

Do these tiles help?  

I have a lot more.

This link has my whole collection, bit big but lots there if you can use them.
http://www.4shared.com/file/RdxmSkiI/Tiles.html


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Do these tiles help?
> 
> I have a lot more.
> 
> This link has my whole collection, bit big but lots there if you can use them.
> http://www.4shared.com/file/RdxmSkiI/Tiles.html




600 MB?!  I think I'll have to wait until the next time that I hit the library to get those.  It'll take 94 hours on my 56k connection...  Thanks for them, though.


----------



## perrinmiller

Heh, I thought that was about a GB and everyone has broadband Internet nowadays.

Well, if you are able to use the ones I attached, there are more and I can upload a few.
[sblock=Folders of Tiles]Abalone
Alien
Asphalt
Badlands
Bamboo
Bark
BEach
Blood
Bone
Brick
Bubbles
Carpet
Cave
Ceramic
Checkered
Cheese
Cobblestone
Concrete
Corn
Cover
Cracked
Crystal
Dirt
Easrth
Ether
Fancy
Fire
Forest
Fractured
Glass
Gold
Granite
Grass
Holes
Ice
Irregular
Knot
Lava
Leather
Leaves
Linoleum
Marble
Marsh
Mayan
Metal
Moss
Mud
Odd
Organic
Parchment
Pavement
Pearl
Ridged
River
Rock
Roof
Rust
Sand
Sandstone
Scale
Shadows
Ship
Skies
Skin
Slate
Slime
Snow
Spessarite
Stairs
Stone
Stucco
Tar
Technical
Terracotta
TExtures
Tiled
Trees
Water
Wood[/sblock]

Some folders have many pictures, some only a few.


----------



## perrinmiller

Okay, we have been playing together some years now and I think we can have a friendly discussion.

I would like to discuss a few IC format things:
1. Quoting other characters in the IC thread
2. Binder's "<Response Mack>" cues
3. Mack's picture on every IC post

I am not complaining, but just want to discuss and see what people like or dislike. And see if folks are willing to change if someone doesn't really like something.

Maybe there is others that people want to bring up.


----------



## Binder Fred

Um, well discuss away, Perrin. Don't personnaly have problems with any of the above.

<Response Perrin?>


----------



## Dr Simon

No issues for me, all is cushty.


----------



## perrinmiller

I was actually hoping for more of an opinion here. 



perrinmiller said:


> 1. Quoting other characters in the IC thread
> 2. Binder's "<Response Mack>" cues
> 3. Mack's picture on every IC post



1. I understand why people do it.  In my own games, I ask people not to do it in an IC thread. Generally is it easy to refer to who the character is talking to without it. And, with our smaller group, I don't think it is necessary myself.  My question is:  Is the need for it outweighing the clutter it causes?  Specifically for our group of players, different games it is necessary.

2. The <Response> cues.  Personally, they are very helpful for speed reading and review.  With the gray letters on black background, the clutter is not an issue.  Less the the OOC blocks the site has.
However, I tried it once in another game because people were ignoring my conversation hooks and I got "wtf is that!?" and I never tried it again.

3. The Avatar picture is standard for me now in every game at EnW and other sites where you only have a single account.  I like them, helps me remember what characters look like.  I do it for as much as the readers. Also it tends to be more important in the beginning of game.

But, as related to this game, I will be honest. Even after all these years of familiarity of the characters, I can only remember that Sloor is greenish with four arms, Darius is male and Mir is female.  I could not tell you their hair color or anything, but I do recognize them on a tactical grid. 

Again, I am not asking people change nor criticizing, definitely not my intent. I am looking for opinions here, cuz I think we can discuss it honestly. If anything, it might impact some decisions I make in other games.


----------



## Songdragon

All the points you have mentioned, are fine by me. I have had no problem with any of it. It is sometimes helpful and other times not. Even I seem to manage to miss a prompt or two.

I wish EN had some more options like forums for our Everflame game.

[sblock=Picture of Mir for ya PM]
Here's a pictiure. I guess since I look up things on my character sheet often enough I see the pciture all the time. It helps to have my own webpage for the character on my computer too. 

http://www.songdragon.net/pics/mir_malone.jpg

http://www.songdragon.net/mir_malone.htm
[/sblock]


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> 1. I understand why people do it.  In my own games, I ask people not to do it in an IC thread. Generally is it easy to refer to who the character is talking to without it. And, with our smaller group, I don't think it is necessary myself.  My question is:  Is the need for it outweighing the clutter it causes?  Specifically for our group of players, different games it is necessary.



I think they're pretty essential myself (obviously ), to know not only whom you're addressing, but what you're specifically replying to (almost a requirement when you're doing multiple scenes at once). I personnaly dislike long paragraphs responding to multiple interventions by other other characters. Quoted text are more dynamic, encouraging short, or at least specific, responses that simulate real time conversations better, I think -- though YMMMV, of course.



perrinmiller said:


> 2. The <Response> cues.  Personally, they are very helpful for speed reading and review.  With the gray letters on black background, the clutter is not an issue.  Less the the OOC blocks the site has.
> However, I tried it once in another game because people were ignoring my conversation hooks and I got "wtf is that!?" and I never tried it again.



Developped these things way back early in my PBEM carreer in a game where we posted the entire ongoing conversation each time we posted, replacing the tags with our name on them with our replies and adding our own where we wanted answers. When all the Response tags were gone, the conversation was done. 

I do have to explain it every time though (and remind of their non-exclusiveness a couple of times too (it's not because Sloor is expecting a response from Mir that Darius can't speak up, etc)), but I think it works, both as an OOC reminder and as an expression of non-verval IC reality: you can usually tell (from where his attention is, looks, pauses, facial expression, small prompts) when someone is expecting an answer. You call also usually tell if it's expected from anyone present, or mostly from a specific someone. Feel free to start using them here if you guys feel like it.

Re pictures, Sloor and TB have one in the RG, as does everyone else, I think (EN World galleries are down since the reboot, so they're not there *right now*, granted). I go take a look whenever I need a refresher.  And you forgot "muscular". Green, four-armed and *muscular* - Oh, and usually grinning. Green, four-armed, muscular and *grinning*!


----------



## Dr Simon

Well...

1. Doesn't bother me. It's certainly useful when replying to more than one statement, less so if not but I don't think they clutter the thread too much. We're all pretty controlled about quoting only what's necessary.

2. It's the only time I've seen it used, but it's quite an interesting way of, as BF says, indicating non-verbal cues etc.

3. To be honest, I'm not sure what Darius looks like myself! I think TF left a vague description that he's got red hair and blue eyes; my intent has been to portray him as something of a cypher anyway, keeping all his feelings locked away under a placid exterior and very little change to his facial expressions. I'll see if I can find a suitable picture.

Edit: Here's what I inherited: "Darius is tall and lean, with short cropped brown hair.  He dresses like you expect a mercenary might." Although he's only 5'10", not what I'd call tall and lean. Since his appearance hasn't featured much, I may change some of it, although I like the idea of looking "ordinary".

Edit 2: This seems like a reasonable version.


----------



## perrinmiller

[MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION]; Would like your opinions too, please.  This is as much a GM discussion (which is half of my perspective) as a player one.

Well, I know one reason the IC thread is not too cluttered with quotes is that don't do it.  

I also tend to be very liberal with the enter key to have short paragraphs.  I picked up that habit early on, since I have trouble reading paragraphs on the computer that are longer than 3-4 lines.  I start skipping things and not reading carefully. :/

Heh, on the pictures for descriptions, I know where to find Sloor and Mir, that is not the problem.  I am just not interested in going to find the RG thread to look unless I absolutely have to. Honestly, I don't have time to go back and review that stuff very often, because I am playing/GMing way too many games. 

I am an organized person and like efficiency.  I typically already have about 16-20 browser windows open and having to keep switching to find information slows me down and causes mistakes.  So things that make it easier for me as a player and the GM, are good.  That's my point of view at least.

I am sure some people think saving a minute here or there is not significant, but I have a queue of notifications in my inbox for game threads (IC & OOC) needing attention that hits over 30+ on a daily basis and I try to get it all done before midnight. Lost time usually means delayed updates for some game until the next night.  Any mistake that needs clarification can potentially stall the game for a day waiting on an answer as well.

I agree, SD, you do highlight a part of EnW that is below standard to me compared to other sites:
1. You cannot easily organize games into sub-forums to quickly find things. 
2. You cannot create multiple accounts with avatars to match your character.
3. You cannot link character sheets into your signature without paying extra (I think)

On that note, I wonder if we should not consider moving the game to use the Campaign Manager function. Hmmm.


----------



## possum

I'm fine with everything how it is currently personally.  I don't find the quotes or character portraits to be much of a problem, if I ever do at all.

As for Campaign Manager, I have no idea how to even start utilizing it, so I'm going to have to say "no" on that for now.


----------



## Binder Fred

In the field for a three day run. Swamped by a mini-super-rush. Should have something for you guys tomorrow night, I hope.

Sorry about that.


----------



## perrinmiller

possum said:


> I'm fine with everything how it is currently personally.  I don't find the quotes or character portraits to be much of a problem, if I ever do at all.
> 
> As for Campaign Manager, I have no idea how to even start utilizing it, so I'm going to have to say "no" on that for now.



Here's the example they show: http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=220
It doesn't look that hard.

You link the existing threads and then you can add things in various sections. 

Take care BF.


----------



## possum

perrinmiller said:


> Here's the example they show: http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php?groupid=220
> It doesn't look that hard.
> 
> You link the existing threads and then you can add things in various sections.
> 
> Take care BF.




Here's what I have so far.

Take care, Binder.


----------



## perrinmiller

I took a look, possum.

I tried to add a picture, but it would not let me.  I did join the campaign though.  Maybe you can set permissions for members?

We are also missing the OOC thread and the RG thread in the links.


----------



## Binder Fred

And I'm back!


----------



## perrinmiller

Welcome back, mate.

Possum, I see you added the other links to the Campaign Manager.  Also I saw that New Thread discussions can be started now.

Can you start an Album called Dramatis Personae and see if we can drop out character pictures in it ourselves?


----------



## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> Can we done with split scenes with different timelines from now on?  I don't want to do any more simultaneous scenes at two different times. Once we move along, that should be it. We moved on. Please save the conversation idea for a later when you have a new opportunity like any other normal game.



No offense, Perrin, but Mack is the one that split the scene here. You can hardly ask the other PCs to change rooms when there's an ongoing conversation, especially after they specifically tell your PC to "go ahead, I've still got things to do here" (after your last OOC request).

I respect your desire to keep IC and OOC knowledge separate (not reading posts when your PC is not present), but on the other hand I also strongly believe we should not let the limitations of the medium we're using dictate how and when our characters react to thing they would normally (and quite organically) react to... I can keep a little "summary" block going if that would help (ongoing scenes in chronological order)? 

[sblock=ONGOING THREADS]Darius conversation (Cockpit; Sloor and Okeefe present, Darius just left for mess hall; Nearly concluded(?))
Report to oversight conversation (Cockpit; Sloor and Okeefe present; Ongoing)
- Mess Hall conversation (Mess hall, simultaneous with following; Mir and Sloor present; Ongoing)
- Cargo hold conversation (Cargo Hold, simultaneous with preceding; Mack and Darius present; Ongoing)[/sblock]


----------



## Songdragon

One thing in most of my posts I considered that the entire group was together. There would not be such an important conversation without everyone... especially when I say Mir looks at Mack and Darius and then it somehow said that they are not all together.

Is it really necessary to go back and finish each and every little conversation or small action? Maybe an important event, that may warrant such, but not each thing we seem to do. If Sloor wanted to see the message he did not have to leave the entire group to do so and then have some conversation and then come back. I can be written that he saw it and then came back and still with the group. PM is not the only one having issues with always going back and splitting the timeline up.


----------



## Binder Fred

I guess he could have come back to the mess hall just after... But why would he when the persons he wanted to talk to where already there in the cockpit? And what stopped/is stopping Mir from coming forward if she wants to be in on that part of thing (I'm assuming we're talking about the present Sloor-Okeefe discussion, right?)? To Sloor's mind he's just gathering info on what *can* be done, and the thought that Mir needs to be there for some reason has not occured to him -- nor is likely to, honnestly. If Mir is wondering what they're discussing up front, she has plenty of tools at her disposal though: ask Darius when he comes back to the mess hall, lean into the central corridor and listen (they're not exactly being super discrete) or just wander up and ask.

We're drifting away from "different time-lines" and going into "never physically split up the group" territory here though. Both might be issues that need discussing, but we shouldn't confuse the two I think.



Songdragon said:


> Especially when I say Mir looks at Mack and Darius and then it somehow said that they are not all together.



When did this occur? Recently? (I must admit that I missed it ). Mack and Darius did describe their respective scene exits pretty explicitly, I thought...

In any event, wouldn't the proposed "Ongoing thread" informational sblock take care of this kind of confusion?


----------



## possum

The thing is about the "separate subthreads" part is that there have been complaints about it from the others, and even I am beginning to get a little burnt out over the slower pace that they seem to begin.  I know that it has the possibility to be helpful, but there have still been complaints about quoting IC posts in the IC thread.  I've done it myself, but it does clutter up the thread.  So, can we keep that to a minimum, say "Hey, GM, I think you missed this part."

Any questions?  Comments?


----------



## perrinmiller

Actually this was the only game out of my 30+ where quoting posts was even tolerated. The crew here is experienced and good enough to role play without them. 

I would say get rid of all the extra OOC cues as well. A good writer doesn't need them either. Just address the character being spoken to by name in the character's speech. 

I think if those are removed, things will be easier to read and force things to be uncomplicated if the writer wants to have their post understood. 

I don't think anyone objects to splitting party to do two things at once.  The driving two different speeders, for example.

If we have a split party, then both groups should be active and we are accomplishing two things at once. This would speed the game up, not slow it down.

Any situation where we have characters sitting on the sidelines waiting, should be avoided.  If it happens, the scene needs to be resolved in a few days RL so everyone is back playing again. It discourteous to exclude someone from play without their permission.


----------



## Binder Fred

And... I'm back home from the holiday visits.

Frankly, what you guys are saying makes no sense to me. 1. The split time-line system is specifically geared to save time and avoid players doing nothing. By it's very definition it allows people to advance all threads simultaneously without holding up 'later' threads (finishing up the Sloor-Okeefe threads while later Mess Hall and Cargo Hold threads continue, for example). If we were roleplaying threads sequentially, we would technically still be at the end of the Sloor-OKeefe discussion! 2. The only time I can recall players being idle when they had opportunity to post is when Perrin specifically requested that the system not be used just now. 3. Granted that the same scenes are roleplayed, the proposed 'new' system has no mechanism to speed things up in any way, shape or form. Quite the reverse, as perticular conversations stall out waiting for input from this or that player, 'trapping' a character that would otherwise be able to advance the plot elsewhere.

What I'm hearing, therefore, is that the proposition's goal is actually to cut out 'extra' scenes (very much in quotation marks) and limit roleplaying to things that are directly related to advancing the main plot. That would be such a loss, IMHO, but is this correct?


----------



## Binder Fred

Um   [MENTION=88649]perrinmiller[/MENTION]? If you read the post just previous to yours, you'll see that both Mir and Sloor have just entered the Cargo hold...


----------



## Binder Fred

possum said:


> Sending a holotape to Organa is actually a pretty good idea, however, there's no way for it to arrive in time for anything to really get done.



My character doesn't know that though (unless Sirona expects it to take weeks or something?). For storytelling reasons, can we say he did and leave it at that for now? That way I have the feeling that the bases have been covered.



possum said:


> About ready to move on to the "raid" to rescue the carbsicles?



Definitively in the last planning stages.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> ... That would be such a loss, IMHO, but is this correct?




Binder, I’m afraid we did explain our points very well.  

The point is the clutter and crutches used to keep multiple scenes together in one thread are causing issues and not moving things along faster. This is the exact opposite of their purpose.  Because, if things were moving along, I would be playing Sonja and not Mack. 

You know that without those quotes, OOC explanations, and cues for response, it would be too confusing.  The change is to eliminate the confusion completely AND not use those crutches, at all. We all should just write our posts so we don't NEED the quotes or the OOC explanations and prompts for other people.  This should actually improve role-playing and writing for all concerned. 

That means everyone would be writing and posting in the here and now of the scene.  No retcon to go back. Everyone uses the narration to place their character in the scene and moves them around.  When the scene moves on, it moves on.

If the party splits up, then a post header to indicate where they are is all that is needed during the separation.  But the characters cannot be in two places at once and time runs concurrently for both groups.

Everything that is in a side-scene that is truly important could be dealt with at its appropriate time and not as a side scene.  Being important, then it deserves a mainstream scene later on with all our characters present and participating. And it should be relevant to upcoming scenes to follow shortly, not scenes that we will not get to until 4-5 months down the road.

If we keep trying to solve plot issues 2-3 steps ahead, most likely things will be changed by the scenes in between.  What is happening now is we keep beating dead horses and repeating topics of conversation after a few months. Pretty much because everyone forgets things that happened 3-4 months before and the IC thread is a chaotic mess and hard to read.

While there are players that need those techniques you developed, Binder, this group does not. All of the stalling you see in our game is caused by the IC thread being confusing and hard to read. Trying to go back and find important information amidst the continually beating of dead horses and repetitive character discussions is not fun and too time consuming. 

By not using those OOC cues and sticking with a focus on the current scene, it should keep everyone more engaged and not take anything away from the game itself.

By making things better for all concerned, I believe some of us will write more content and post more often as they have increased enjoyment and excitement as things progress.


----------



## perrinmiller

Binder Fred said:


> Um    _*perrinmiller*_ ? If you read the post just previous to yours, you'll see that both Mir and Sloor have just entered the Cargo hold...



  I thought we were in a hurry to leave the ship according to Darius. With that in mind, I took Mir was meaning that it was time to get moving.  So I posted Mack following along when that happened.  But, I edited that part out now, since we are staying in the Cargo Hold to keep talking.


----------



## Binder Fred

There have been no repetitive conversations or beating of any dead horses. If we return to a topic (the nature/extent of the Sarlacc project, for example), it's because 1. it's important to at least two of us and 2. it hasn't been solved to everyone/anyone's satisfaction the first time(s) around. It has nothing to do with not remembering the previous conversation. I keep a log of all my games, including this one, and I can tell you that it reads very nicely indeed, with none of your imaginary repetitive discussions. 

To be frank, I think part of that problem is that you simply have too many concurrrently ongoing games (30+ in three years?). It seems only fair/appropriate that you trim down on your own split-timelines, since I must trim down on mine. Don't let me be the only one that has to make compromises. That also is not very fun.



perrinmiller said:


> Everything that is in a side-scene that is truly important could be dealt with at its appropriate time and not as a side scene.  Being important, then it deserves a mainstream scene later on with all our characters present and participating.



You and I both know this is not going to happen. Scenes are either played when the need for them emerges or they are not played at all. 

I also disagree on two of your base concepts: "important enough" (who decides this? I, for example, obviously decided that all the scenes Sloor roleplayed were important enough to pour my precious time and creative energy into. Most importantly, it's in the very nature of roleplaying with actual _people_ that you *cannot* predict when something  one considers secondary will turn into something bigger/completely un-expected (read the scene just past sometimes if you want a rather telling example))... Just out morbid curiosity, which ones of the scenes we've roleplayed since the begining of this game would you consider "not important enough" to bother with? 

Secondly, "when the scene moves on" (again, who decides this? Mack obviously decided the mess hall scene was over. He was, rather obviously too, quite mistaken). 

Three, some scene simply will not work with all characters present.

In conclusion, no, I do not think forcing the group to wander around like a glued-together committee is a good idea. I will keep things in the present as much as possible (with the possible exception of reaction shots and side-line commentaries (like during the Verana-Varth briefing at the beginning of the present chapter, for example)) since that seems to be the will of the majority, but Sloor *will* continue to react to things organically.  What I specifically seek in PbP is the freedom to play my characters to their fullest, the freedom to build a 'novel-worthy' story with three to five other thinking/feeling individuals. I will not give that up without a fight as, without that freedom, there is no point for me. I might as well spend my not-that-plentiful free time playing MMORPGs.


----------



## perrinmiller

Sorry, I cannot help it if you don't understand and focus on other issues. The number of games I play makes me way more experienced than when we started, the post count here at EnWorld is about 20% of my total.

 I tried to be constructive and explain.  You are not interested in respecting my opinion and I am done wasting my time.  The others were smart to not discuss with you, it was pointless.

If I don't enjoy the game going forward, I will just walk away.  It is that simple.


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## Binder Fred

You say the clutter and crutches are the problem and they are gone. Now you're advocating scene cutting, restricted discussions and not even thinking about plot issues that are not right in front of our faces (as that likely refers to "How do we get into Bespin?", I will point out that that *is* the very next thing we need to worry about after the corpsicle side-plot). Not immediately agreeing with you is not disrespect, nor is asking specific examples of how past situations would have been improved by your proposed guidelines, seeing as how 95%+ of our discussions already center on how to achieve the next plot point or, more recently, what the next plot point to be achieved should be. Since those are apparently not the focus of the discussion, could you state what is in one sentence or less, please? That would likely help things tremendously.

The problem as I see it, Perrin, is that you and I want different things from our games. The issues I focus on are therefore the issues that are important to my enjoyment of a PbP game, which are markedly different from yours. I do not count a game's success by how quickly it can get to the next plot point, for one. I count success on the quality of the story we build together getting there. Measures meant to drastically cut into the latter in favor of the former (bareboning a game) are therefore not likely to gain favor in my book. Why you seem to think your goals are the only ones that should be furthered, that they are the only ones that have an impact on our overall enjoyment of the game as a group, in short that a middle ground is something that should not even be attempted, sort of escapes me.

My message is clear: 1. In the "keep it in the present" rule you have what you say you want 2. My feeling is that you will not get more without fatally cutting into *my* enjoyment, which is just as important as yours, so please desist, and 3. By its very nature, the new system will give you simplicity; it will not give you speed, as either of us define it. I therefore deeply hope that the fruits of that simplicity will be enough for you and Songdragon, as I usually enjoy this game very much, and have for three years, *despite* the clutter and the crutches.

Your friend if you will still have me,¸
Fred.


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## Binder Fred

What about this bit,  [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION]?



Binder Fred said:


> Can we say he did (send a holotape to Organa) and leave it at that for now? That way I have the feeling that the bases have been covered.


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## perrinmiller

I think the trooper armor requires you to wear a body glove, taking considerable time.  I think it is 10 minutes total, IIRC.

I will wait for SD to reply before posting Mack again.


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## possum

Binder Fred said:


> What about this bit,  [MENTION=17674]possum[/MENTION]?




Yeah, we can.


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## Binder Fred

perrinmiller said:


> I think the trooper armor requires you to wear a body glove, taking considerable time.  I think it is 10 minutes total, IIRC.



Was this in response to Sloor's plan? I'd prefer to answer it IC, but as Sloor is suggesting they do the various costume change(s) in their palace quarters, the time needed doesn't really mater either way. EDIT= Actually, would the glove fit under Darius' regular clothes? That much time gained if so. 

Thanks Possum. Will back edit the relevant IC post asap.


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## Binder Fred

Double post.


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## perrinmiller

I would have thought the body glove information would be known with common sense looking at the armor.  But after thinking about it, it was 10 minutes to remove the body glove and armor from a dead trooper and don it when it happened in another game.  Actually starting from scratch, maybe 2-5 minutes. The body glove is hard to get off a corpse, and can be put on before the rest of the armor, I think.

Though, perhaps it is moot.


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## possum

Yes, the body glove is required and certainly would take some time to assemble and put together the rest of the suit.  Any more questions?


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## Binder Fred

Songdragon said:


> Why not wake the jedi up before coming back up... moving about, into our previous quarters at that, with carbontie blocks will get us noticed in a big way.



I figure two hovering blocks present about the same challenge as two very weak, possibly non-ambulatory, possibly very confused jedis. Then there's the matter of the three guards standing right there when we try to explain to the two newly awakened jedis that we're the good guys... Our *present* quarters (we haven't moved out yet) are right up the stairs and down a short corridor from the dungeon (tell me that's not the Force in action ). Doesn't matter if we're seen coming or going from them (though it's of course prefereable if we *aren't* seen at all, and the shorter trip "in disguise" is meant to maximize that possibility). Still, as long as nobody sees us actually duck in them, we're good (hence the positioning of Sloor and TB for a timely distraction if need be). We can put it to a vote if you're not convinced though?

Two points still need to be worked out before we can move out, IMHO. One is the quality of the disguises (Mack and Darius in stolen imperial armor are good, what's Mir's disguise? Is she planning to pose as Victra herself or just "generic imperial"? Use some sort of Force trick to confuse the guards memory of her and/or Victra?), two is the question sloor asked IC: how do we plan to convince the guards? That's the do-or-die part of the plan rght there, I'm thinking.


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## Dr Simon

Mir and/or Darius can contact the figures silently using the Force, in fact I seem to recall we've already managed to somehow let them know that help is one the way. I'd assume the point of the disguises, as well as deflecting blame, was to allow us to bluff our way past the guards. Darius isn't a planner, though, he's moret he type to keep moving forwards and deal with problems as they come up, liability that he is!


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## Binder Fred

Dr Simon said:


> I'd assume the point of the disguises, as well as deflecting blame, was to allow us to bluff our way past the guards.



True, but we're technically not 'past the guards' until we're out of the dungeon. The three guards will be watching when we go into/are in the dungeon proper and then when we head back out, sure as sure (it's their job, after all). They might (rightly) wonder why we're unfreezing their charges as well... Plus, as mentionned, there's the whole: who knows how long the unfreeze will take and in what conditions the prisoners will be immediately afterwards? Remember that before we (save Darius) saw the last agent, we thought carbonite freezing was fatal. Organa had a whole med-team standing by on that one, and the agent was described as "very weak" the next day even then.

Speaking of the guards, we probably should make sure beforehand that it *isn't* Three Tops and company that are on duty -- as the risk of being recognized would than be *much* higher than with some random guards. Three Tops and co were on night shift last night and it's still light, I think, so our chances should be good. Still, might be worth sending TB to peak in just before we head in, just to make sure.


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## Songdragon

To be blunt and up front, I have decided to quit the game.

I realize that in the last month or so that I just did not enjoy the campaign as I once did. I found myself putting this game off more and more to the point that is has dragged on far too long. In the end it comes down to enjoying the game or not, and I am not. 

Before anyone asks can we fix anything, right now I do not want to put in that effort. It is time for me to end my participation and move on.  

This campaign was one of my first online play by post endeavors and has had a great run of over two years. 

Thank you all for your time.
Songdragon/Mir Malone.


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## possum

Songdragon said:


> To be blunt and up front, I have decided to quit the game.
> 
> I realize that in the last month or so that I just did not enjoy the campaign as I once did. I found myself putting this game off more and more to the point that is has dragged on far too long. In the end it comes down to enjoying the game or not, and I am not.
> 
> Before anyone asks can we fix anything, right now I do not want to put in that effort. It is time for me to end my participation and move on.
> 
> This campaign was one of my first online play by post endeavors and has had a great run of over two years.
> 
> Thank you all for your time.
> Songdragon/Mir Malone.




I'm sorry to see you go.  I'm also sorry that I couldn't make this game more enjoyable for you these past couple of months.  

I'm probably going to have to call this game, as now we're down to two players and I don't really feel like recruiting again.


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## Binder Fred

Still able and willing if you are, Possum. We've got plenty of space to accomodate new players too, I think, what with the two freed up characters, the two frozen jedis, Mizza, plus being near a chapter end and all if we want to bring in entirely new blood. As long as there's somebody to interact with, I'll keep on posting to the IC thread.


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## Dr Simon

I'm still here!


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## perrinmiller

Sorry, guys.
It was a good run, but I am not going to continue.


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## Binder Fred

Dr Simon said:


> I'm still here!



So post up in the IC thread, Darius my man. 

(Might as well get the whole planning/what do we do next thing squared out now, right? And: nice to have you still on board, Dr Simon. Much appreciated.)





*Edit and PS: *Will be AFK tomorrow, friday: big meeting 3h out of town by plane. Going to be hectic!


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## possum

I'm sorry, Binder, Dr. Simon.  I appreciate your enthusiasm to continue, but I do feel like I'm wanting to call this game off.  I have to say that it was an absolute pleasure GMing every single one of you and I do hope that our paths will cross on this board once again.  Thank you.

Possum/Hayabusa


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## Dr Simon

Pity, but I can understand. Two installments of an adventure path is pretty good going for a PbP. I'm interested to know, however, how close we were to finishing. Was there more information about the Sarlacc project to collect, as BF suspected, or was it a case of resuce the Jedi and go?


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## Binder Fred

Yes indeed, at nearly three years this one lasted longer than most. I'll be sorry to see it go. 

My idea, based on what Varth told us, was that the Sarlacc is a *big*, important project which is using the Tibanna gas from Darga to do... something (don't know if the timing is right, but my first thought was the first Death Star? That should use *plenty* of weapon's grade Tiibana, right?). i.e. the "Slaves for  Tibanna" is just a convenient supply scheme for the *real* Sarlacc, which is situated somewhere at the end of the Bespin supply line. As Sloor mentionned, I don't think there was any other info to be gained on Cato as such - not on the Sarlacc anyway; maybe the jedis had something interresting in their heads (related to the next chapter maybe? Don't know) - Darga's main use was to be as a gateway to his Bespin operation so that we could follow the Supply Chain all the way up to the Sarlacc (had the vague thought of maybe getting *us* carbonite frozen so that we could sneak ourselves into Darga's shipment to the imperials ). <sigh> A shame Sloor will never know for sure.

As you say, Possum, a pleasure to have roleplayed with you guys, and sorry it didn't last longer, Dr Simon. I too look forward to meeting both of you in other games.

Signing out,
Binder/Sloor


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## possum

Dr Simon said:


> Pity, but I can understand. Two installments of an adventure path is pretty good going for a PbP. I'm interested to know, however, how close we were to finishing. Was there more information about the Sarlacc project to collect, as BF suspected, or was it a case of resuce the Jedi and go?




We were very close to finishing the second module.  You had found out the evidence that you needed (Bespin) and had to rescue the Jedi.

[sblock=What Sarlacc Was]
A prototype Super Star Destroyer[/sblock]

Thanks for understanding, guys.


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