# Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide: The First Official D&D 5E Setting



## Roger (Jul 22, 2015)

[Promoted post] The _Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide_ is an official upcoming sourcebook from WotC. More accurately, it's the first official 5E setting book from WotC!  "Get everything you need to adventure in the Forgotten Realms on the exciting Sword Coast, home to the cities of Baldur’s Gate, Waterdeep, and Neverwinter! A collaboration between Green Ronin Publishing and the Dungeons & Dragons team at Wizards of the Coast, the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide provides D&D fans with a wealth of detail on the places, cultures, and deities of northwestern Faerûn."  Set for release November 3rd, this will be the first official setting book, and is timed to release along with the _Sword Coast Legends_ video game.




​
"The Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide is also a great way to catch up on recent events in the Forgotten Realms, to get background on locations featured in the Rage of Demons storyline coming in September, and to learn the lore behind video games like Neverwinter and Sword Coast Legends.

Here are just a few of the features you’ll find in the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide:

Immersive Adventuring: This campaign sourcebook provides players and Dungeon Masters material for creating vibrant fantasy stories along the Sword Coast.

New Character Options: The book offers new subclass options, such as the Purple Dragon Knight and the Swashbuckler, for many of the classes presented in the Player’s Handbook, as well as new subraces and backgrounds specific to the Forgotten Realms.

Adventure in the Forgotten Realms: Discover the current state of the Forgotten Realms and its deities after the Spellplague and the second Sundering. You’ll also get updated maps of this area of the Realms.

Compatible with Rage of Demons storyline: Make characters for use with the Out of the Abyss adventure and fight back the influence of the demon lords in the Underdark below the Sword Coast.

Insider Information: Learn the background behind locations, such as Luskan and Gracklstugh, featured in the upcoming digital RPG, Sword Coast Legends, from n-Space.

With new character backgrounds and class options, players will love the storytelling possibilities of playing a noble of Waterdeep, an elf bladesinger, or one of the other new options, while Dungeon Masters will relish a book full of mysterious locations and story hooks to keep players adventuring on the Sword Coast for years to come."

It's interesting that a product called "Adventurer's Handbook" was cancelled (or "not announced") earlier this year. Perhaps this is based on work done on that product? Or not; it was originally a Sasquatch Studios product, after all (and they're busy producing their own pulp-fantasy D&D 5E setting on Kickstarter).  Hard to tell!  Maybe they figured the upcoming storyline was better timing for a sourcebook. That said, it's wonderful to see Green Ronin doing so well, with _Out of the Abyss_ launching imminently, their _Fantasy AGE_ system on Wil Wheaton's show, _Titansgrave_, and their recently successful _Blue Rose_ Kickstarter.  I dare say this is a golden age for the Ronins, similar (or maybe better than!) when _Mutants & Masterminds _took off a decade ago.



Original post:


> Not sure if this is new, but I only just noticed it myself:
> 
> http://dnd.wizards.com/products/tabletop-games/rpg-products/sc-adventurers-guide
> 
> ...


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 22, 2015)

Wonder how much of a tie in it has with the Computer Game? Or is this just a reprint of older material, Waterdeep and so on?


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## KarinsDad (Jul 22, 2015)

And so the "bigger, better, badder" race begins.


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## S_Dalsgaard (Jul 22, 2015)

There is more info here - http://dnd.wizards.com/articles/news/scag

It seems to be new stuff, including new subclasses.


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## Greybird (Jul 22, 2015)

On the one hand, I'm glad to see that there is something out there.  On the other, I'm starting to think that WotC has forgotten that the Sword Coast has a world attached to it.


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## TerraDave (Jul 22, 2015)

OMG, OMG, OMG!! They are releasing something!

Ahmm.

Looks like a carry over of the earlier book, but Green Ronin ends up getting it. And with such clear brand tie-in.

BTW, I think we have seen a playtest version of the swashbuckler. May have or will see others.


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## unnatural 20 (Jul 22, 2015)

Yeah, doesn't look like there will be a setting guide produced for the Realms?

I wonder if this is how settings will be updated. The makers of the Sword Coast PC game have said that they may do other settings in the future. So, maybe a Sharn source book for Eberron, or a  Tyr source book for Dark Sun?


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## TerraDave (Jul 22, 2015)

KarinsDad said:


> And so the "bigger, better, badder" race begins.




elf bladesinger is actually in the announcement.


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## Remathilis (Jul 22, 2015)

Bout damn time.

I don't even play Realms, but consider this pre-ordered.


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## jamesjhaeck (Jul 22, 2015)

Color me excited! I'm a little surprised this announcement wasn't saved for GenCon. Makes me wonder what Wizards has up their sleeve for August.


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## Ashran (Jul 22, 2015)

I play and dm in the realms, and for me it seems as a must buy.


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## CrusaderX (Jul 22, 2015)

Yay!  More product!  I'll definitely be buying this.

The lead character on the cover art looks like a Swashbuckler to me.  I hope the official subclass presented here has the kinks worked out of it from the Unearthed Arcana version.


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## Sable (Jul 22, 2015)

Well done Wizards, take my money. Just to see how the Bladesinger lives up to my 2E memories if for nothing else.


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## Dragonsbane (Jul 22, 2015)

Not that excited. I for one had hopes on books that were entire settings. Not only that, but that area of the world has like . . . a bunch of sourcebooks. But I guess the realms does as well. Personally, I would have rather seen a general world guidebook, with huge sections of races and subraces, backgrounds, subclasses, and then updated details on the different regions, deities, and history.


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## Irennan (Jul 22, 2015)

I've been waiting for an update on the Realms since the end of the Sundering series. This won't cover it all, but it is something.

I really want to see a Sword Dancer of Eilistraee option in the book: Eilistraee has been confirmed to be alive in the present era by Ed Greenwood, and I've always really liked her and the concept of an elegant, dancing sword wielder that can cast spells through song.


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## Mirtek (Jul 22, 2015)

First release after the PHB I'll buy


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## collin (Jul 22, 2015)

I am looking forward more to the new gaming material than the actual setting.  Not sure if I would call Sword Coast a setting; it's more like a sub-setting, but I won't quibble about the details.  Very interested in looking at this book when it comes out.


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## justinj3x3 (Jul 22, 2015)

I may not buy it because it's Realms stuff, but I may buy it for the character options. Either way I'm happy to see WOTC release an actual product and I don't have to wonder if they are ever going to do anything besides the core stuff!!


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## greylurk (Jul 22, 2015)

I don't mind having a bit more "focus" in the campaign settings instead of trying to document the piles and piles of Realms lore in one big huge hardcover.  Just covering Waterdeep, Baldur's Gate, and the rest of the Sword Coast is better than trying to wedge in all the lore around Anauroch, Thay, Mulorhand, Chult and Abier-Toril into one book.


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## Barantor (Jul 22, 2015)

Seems like they did this purely to tie in to the video game, gonna pass.


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## justinj3x3 (Jul 22, 2015)

Barantor said:


> Seems like they did this purely to tie in to the video game, gonna pass.




That occurred to me too, but after a year it's good to see WOTC put out ANYTHING.


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## Staffan (Jul 22, 2015)

Dragonsbane777 said:


> Not that excited. I for one had hopes on books that were entire settings. Not only that, but that area of the world has like . . . a bunch of sourcebooks.



Actually, it doesn't. OK, the northern Sword Coast (Waterdeep and north of that) is fairly well covered, but information on the southern part (formerly known as Western Heartlands) is surprisingly hard to come by. The sources are mainly:

* The relevant parts of the various setting books/boxes.
* Volo's Guide to the Sword Coast (which focuses a lot on "touristy" information).
* Forgotten Realms Adventures (the 1e-to-2e update book on FR, which also had two-page descriptions of cities/towns across the Heartlands - but pretty much nothing on the lands in between the settlements).

That's pretty much it. There are scattered details across other sourcebooks  - for example, a book about mercenaries might have a mercenary company based in the Western Heartland (or it might not - I can't remember), but there's precious little about the area itself.


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## designbot (Jul 22, 2015)

I wonder if their work on this product is what prompted them to change the map scale midway through work on the Princes of the Apocalypse.


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## Morrus (Jul 22, 2015)

justinj3x3 said:


> That occurred to me too, but after a year it's good to see WOTC put out ANYTHING.




A year? They've put out 6 hardcovers and a boxed set in 10 months. And licensed two DM screens and a bunch of card sets. Another hardcover in a couple of weeks. Then this is also coming, too, in November! Loads of stuff!


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## Paraxis (Jul 22, 2015)

I wont read a word of the setting material but I am looking forward to the new crunch.

I hope the bladesinger is very close the 4e version of that class, it wasn't very optimal but it was sure fun to play.


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## justinj3x3 (Jul 22, 2015)

Morrus said:


> A year? They've put out 6 hardcovers and a boxed set in 10 months. And licensed two DM screens and a bunch of card sets. Another hardcover in a couple of weeks. Then this is also coming, too, in November! Loads of stuff!




Oh Morrus, I'm being positive and happy here. Do we really need to start debating about how all the products besides the core books DM screen and starter set were outsourced. 

I'll rephrase....

That occurred to me too, but after a year it's good to see WOTC put out ANYTHING without it being outsourced.

Is that better?

And you knew exactly what I meant.


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## Lancelot (Jul 22, 2015)

I'll (probably) buy it for new PC options, but the setting information is of limited value for my homebrew. On the upside, at least it's focused on one of the only areas of the Forgotten Realms in which I actually have some interest. That's thanks to the CRPGs: Neverwinter Nights, NWN 2, Baldur's Gate, Eye of the Beholder, etc. A book focused on Cormyr, the Dalelands, Rashemen, Mulhorand, etc would probably be an automatic *no-buy* for me, even if it had some generic PC options that could be imported into another campaign. I doubt I'd feel I was getting my money's worth. 

Things that will further elevate the _Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide_ in my eyes: some new monsters, good quality maps of the major cities (sufficient to capture their unique character; not list every single location of interest), new cleric domains, and anything that references lore from the CRPGs (e.g. Bhaalspawn, Sarevok, Minsc and Boo, the pirate captains and wizards of Luskan, the Mere of Dead Men, Xanathar the Beholder, the Temple of Darkmoon, Undermountain, Halaster, etc).


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## Jester David (Jul 22, 2015)

I just hope Sword Coast Legends doesn't get delayed too long. Of course, it's currently aimed at late September, so they have a couple months of wiggle room. 

It's a curious idea for a product. An update on the Realms AND a campaign sourcebook (coming out to months after the campaign book (and thus too late for Encounters to use) AND a splatbook for everyone. 
This makes the product sound rather... bloated actually. And the $40 price suggests it'll be in the 250-page range They can't possibly do the Realms justice in that short of space and provide enough PC content to satisfy people.



Barantor said:


> Seems like they did this purely to tie in to the video game, gonna pass.



They did the same thing for the Neverwinter book and that was quality. You'd never know it was timed to coincide with the planned release. 
And all their adventures seem to be set on the Sword Coast region, so it ties into the focus of most of their recent products.


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## greylurk (Jul 22, 2015)

justinj3x3 said:


> That occurred to me too, but after a year it's good to see WOTC put out ANYTHING without it being outsourced.




Well, actually this is a Green Ronin partnership, according to the announcement.


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## mach1.9pants (Jul 22, 2015)

justinj3x3 said:


> Oh Morrus, I'm being positive and happy here. Do we really need to start debating about how all the products besides the core books DM screen and starter set were outsourced.
> 
> I'll rephrase....
> 
> ...




But this book is outsourced too, so maybe Morrus didn't know what you meant. I didn't. Like every book apart from the Core 3, this is being done by a Third party (Green Ronin in this case).

But I did not see this coming, and I am very keen. We are enjoying running around the realms at the moment, so more the merrier. Hopefully it also means new worlds will open up one day!


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## justinj3x3 (Jul 22, 2015)

greylurk said:


> Well, actually this is a Green Ronin partnership, according to the announcement.




Face palm


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## Agamon (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm happy using the 3e FR setting material I already own, so I don't really need this.

Plus, I was planning on going from FR, which our current game is set in, to Primeval Thule for the next campaign, and that was before they announced the 5e version of the setting.  That sealed the deal.


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## justinj3x3 (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm still glad it's something other than an AP though. Realms fans have deserved this.


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## Agamon (Jul 22, 2015)

justinj3x3 said:


> Face palm




What's the problem?  GR is a fine RPG company.  Not personally a fan of the AGE system, but that's not an issue here.


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## justinj3x3 (Jul 22, 2015)

Agamon said:


> What's the problem?  GR is a fine RPG company.  Not personally a fan of the AGE system, but that's not an issue here.




No that's a combo face palm towards me being dumb and not reading thoroughly in my excitement and thinking Morrus and I were having that old debate about WOTC releasing product. And a little about it being outsourced but I'm glad it's something other than an AP so I'm just going to live with it. Nothing against GR.


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## Nellisir (Jul 22, 2015)

Excellent!


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## RichGreen (Jul 22, 2015)

Looks great - Nov 3rd can't come soon enough as I am running a Sword Coast campaign now!


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## Barantor (Jul 22, 2015)

Agamon said:


> I'm happy using the 3e FR setting material I already own, so I don't really need this.
> 
> Plus, I was planning on going from FR, which our current game is set in, to Primeval Thule for the next campaign, and that was before they announced the 5e version of the setting.  That sealed the deal.




This is my boat as well. 

Although there are plenty of folks that like FR and the bucket o' fantasy that it is, I am not a fan.

I don't see any subclasses that intrigue me in there either, so that doubles down the pass.


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## Morrus (Jul 22, 2015)

justinj3x3 said:


> That occurred to me too, but after a year it's good to see WOTC put out ANYTHING without it being outsourced.




This book is by Green Ronin.



> And you knew exactly what I meant.




Clearly not.


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## Chimpy (Jul 22, 2015)

That's one christmas gift I can't wait to get hold off then! Finally a setting book.


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## Vael (Jul 22, 2015)

I'll admit, I'm more interested in the non-setting specific stuff. New PC options ahoy!


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## Psikerlord# (Jul 22, 2015)

I'm afraid I've been over the realms for a few years already, all the sundering stuff, etc, it's too kitchen sink overdone for me. My next campaign will be in Thule, or possibly Ravenloft or homebrew. 

I'll be interested to see the PC options, however.


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## Osgood (Jul 22, 2015)

It's about darn time! I can't stand the Forgotten Realms, but they certainly won't put out another setting until they do the Realms. Here's hoping for Eberron next. 

My personal dislike of the setting aside, I'm sure there will be plenty of character options that can be used or adapted for other settings. The lack of new options has been the number one complaint from my group since about a month after the PHB was released.


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## BrockBallingdark (Jul 22, 2015)

No interest in the Forgotten Realms what so ever... first book I won't be pre-ordering.  That said, I will be curious on the character options.


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## exile (Jul 23, 2015)

This pleases me. D&D has lost me as the avid consumer I once was, but this is the kind of product that I am happy to see.


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## GobiWon (Jul 23, 2015)

Purple Dragon Knight? That worries me. That really should not be in a book about the Sword Coast. Will we see Adventurer's Guides for the rest of the Realms? This feels like a trial balloon to convince Hasbro that there is a demand for these books. I think there will be a lot of stuff in this that feels like it should be in an overview and not in a region specific guide. I feel like we will maybe end up with three or four of these for the Realms and one for each of the other settings if we are lucky. With that said I will buy this simply to see an update to and overview of what has been happening in the Realms.


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## DaveMage (Jul 23, 2015)

I wonder how many pages the book has...


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## MonsterEnvy (Jul 23, 2015)

GobiWon said:


> Purple Dragon Knight? That worries me. That really should not be in a book about the Sword Coast. Will we see Adventurer's Guides for the rest of the Realms? This feels like a trial balloon to convince Hasbro that there is a demand for these books. I think there will be a lot of stuff in this that feels like it should be in an overview and not in a region specific guide. I feel like we will maybe end up with three or four of these for the Realms and one for each of the other settings if we are lucky. With that said I will buy this simply to see an update to and overview of what has been happening in the Realms.




Why should the Purple Dragon Knight not be in the book.


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## ChapolimX (Jul 23, 2015)

I was expecting a tradicional Forgotten Realms Campaing Setting book but I might end up liking this.



GobiWon said:


> Purple Dragon Knight? That worries me. That really should not be in a book about the Sword Coast. Will we see Adventurer's Guides for the rest of the Realms? ...




I would like to know more about that. The Purple Dragon Knight thing is giving me an awkward feeling.


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## ChapolimX (Jul 23, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Why should the Purple Dragon Knight not be in the book.




They're from Cormyr. Another region. A continental one.


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## mach1.9pants (Jul 23, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Why should the Purple Dragon Knight not be in the book.




Cos Cormyr is not on the Sword Coast?


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## Benji (Jul 23, 2015)

I have NO IDEA how to feel about this product. It's seems good but if it's all they ever release for the realms - nothing else and it turns out to be as advert focused as Dragon+ I'm gonna be pissed. If it's 'We've done everything in the sword coast now, here's a book, our next adventure will be in another part of the realms/another setting' then I'm happy.


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## Kobold Stew (Jul 23, 2015)

For me, it matters how much space is dedicated to PC options. For a $40 book, I want 40 pages of bring-to-the-table PC options. Less than that, and I expect I'll pass, gaming happily with the free pdf supplements that have been releasing.


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## Henry (Jul 23, 2015)

HOLY ! A setting! Something I might could use!

Gotta check this out. Between the Demons stoeyline and this, could be TWO WotC things i'm getting this fall.


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## Benji (Jul 23, 2015)

Also, (sorry to post this after) I feel like if we all buy this Wizards/hasbro won't go 'They want settings/splat' but will instead go 'tying it into video games is working!' which is not my motivation for buying the book.


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## MonsterEnvy (Jul 23, 2015)

ChapolimX said:


> They're from Cormyr. Another region. A continental one.






mach1.9pants said:


> Cos Cormyr is not on the Sword Coast?




It's just a little past the Well of Dragons it could easily make the cut for a Sword Coast map. 


View attachment 69399


This is the most recent map we have gotten on the Sword Coast
View attachment 69400

Cormyr is just a bit past the well.


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## Henry (Jul 23, 2015)

Morrus said:


> A year? They've put out 6 hardcovers and a boxed set in 10 months. And licensed two DM screens and a bunch of card sets. Another hardcover in a couple of weeks. Then this is also coming, too, in November! Loads of stuff!




As far as support goes, I really don't count the core 3 books, so my happiness comes at them putting put a support product that actually deals with the three years of changes they've been hinting around but avoiding until now. It was lack of this very book why my FR 5e game was set in the 3e campaign material, because I didn't feel like I had enough support to do a post-sundering Realms proper treatment.


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## Dargrimm (Jul 23, 2015)

Why the complaining? It is a sourcebook with new characters options and updating the region of the Realms they are currently using (which makes a lot of sense). I'm actually really excited about this book and I will probably get it.

I understand many of us wanted a book covering the full of the Realms but to make a book such big the crunch, probably, would be need to be kept to a minimum, and fluff we have a-plenty for the Forgotten Realms. A book focused on a smaller area will get more content and be more detailed. And seeing that all their releases are based on the Sword Coast, it makes a lot of sense to make book detailing (and updating) the area.

Will that mean we will be getting similar books in other areas of the Realms? I don't know but it would be awesome if they did it.

For now, I'm really happy this is coming soon.


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## Fildrigar (Jul 23, 2015)

THIS JUST IN....

.....WIZARDS ANNOUNCES A SETTING BOOK.....

.....PEOPLE STILL NOT SATISFIED......

...."It's not the *exact* thing I wanted," SAYS AREA MAN, "I wanted it [set in a different world/actually written by Wizards/to cover an entire continent in excruciating detail]"....

....FILM AT ELEVEN....


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## JeffB (Jul 23, 2015)

My tabletop game fizzled out, but I might still pick this up...

I am not a Pramas or GR fan, so who actually does the writing is the deciding factor for me. If the bulk of it are GR staffers  or SKR,  or similar, no thanks. If it's mostly Ed and/or Steven Schend,  then I will gjve it a looksee.


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## Benji (Jul 23, 2015)

Fildrigar said:


> THIS JUST IN....
> 
> .....WIZARDS ANNOUNCES A SETTING BOOK.....
> 
> ...




To be fair, I'm not complaining about the book until I see what's like, I'm just voicing the opinion that I don;t know what to think about it and can't predict what will happen if it is successful. But I take your point. I probably won't buy it but largely cause I can't afford to buy more than a book every three-six months nowdays (children eat money, sometimes literally)and  until I can check one out I have no idea if it'll be worth my time.


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## pukunui (Jul 23, 2015)

I, for one, am happy they've chosen to focus on the Sword Coast first, as I only recently started running the Tyranny of Dragons campaign. It'll be nice to have a post-Sundering update on the various locations the PCs will be visiting that only get a passing mention in the adventure books (like Baldur's Gate and Waterdeep).


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## TarionzCousin (Jul 23, 2015)

"... second Sundering...." Um, what? There were two Sunderings?


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## Irennan (Jul 23, 2015)

TarionzCousin said:


> "... second Sundering...." Um, what? There were two Sunderings?




Yeah: the elven Sundering (http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sundering) and the recent Sundering ( http://forgottenrealms.wikia.com/wiki/Sundering_(event) ). They were supposed to be linked, but WotC never explained exactly how.


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## gyor (Jul 23, 2015)

Yes.



 Spoiler Warning



 The effects of the original sundering went both forward and backwards in time. This latest Sundering is the last ripple effect of the original.


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## Talmek (Jul 23, 2015)

For the price point of $39.99 I really, REALLY hope that there's a lot of good information regarding the current state of the Realms included. I know this may be peanuts for some in the hobby but seeing that this _used to be_ the going price for entire campaign settings (yes, I know like 10 years ago, printing costs and so on - I'm old and crotchety at this point) my expectations are pretty high.

All things considered, I will definitely be pre-ordering though. I absolutely enjoy the Realms and 5e, so this purchase feels like a no-brainer for my group.


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## Prism (Jul 23, 2015)

They certainly seem set on making the sword coast area the place for adventure in the Forgotten Realms. Most of the Sundering adventures, all of the modules since release, both current computer games and the board game are all set in the region.
I doubt we will see much focus on the rest of the realms through gaming products as this seems to be the place. I'm quite happy if the rest if left less detailed to be honest. Adventurers league has the Moonsea region and the novel writers are skirting around the edges in Cormyr, Sembia and the North.

I'll certainly be getting this. I wonder if Ed Greenwood had much involvement.


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## ChapolimX (Jul 23, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> It's just a little past the Well of Dragons it could easily make the cut for a Sword Coast map.
> ...




That's not a bad point. I'd rather see Cormyr in a book about the interior Faêrum (as in the Forgotten Realms wikia map -- I can't post links) + Dalelands or something like that. But this is not the end of the world for sure. Better this than nothing as long as they don't make a big mess.

Thanks for replying.


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## SkidAce (Jul 23, 2015)

I am going to post this thought before I read the thread.

Yay!  A campaign setting book.  Even though I never use the Forgotten Realms, I always look forward to the sourcebooks.

As far as everyone else goes, now that we have something on the schedule that many people have been asking for...how long before somebody comes in and tries to pull the tower down?


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## gyor (Jul 23, 2015)

Hope they do one for the Mulhorand and Unther.


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## greylurk (Jul 23, 2015)

In my mind, Cormyr belongs in a book with Sembia, Shadowdale and Zhentil Keep, and I'd love to see that same book include a redo of pirates on the sea of fallen stars.


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## Connorsrpg (Jul 23, 2015)

Funny. This intrigues me a lot. I am not that interested in the Realms stuff as such, but I am very interested in the options and HOW they do this. Especially considering, this 'Mini-Setting' approach is exactly what we have decided to do with out campaign world. http://cellworld.wikidot.com/forum/t-1043808/mini-settings#post-2343224.

I know people will want full Realms books, but there is already so much out there, and focusing on a small area will cover so much more ground and provide options that will fit other areas anyway. But it allows for more detail and specific subclasses etc like the PDKs.

I really like this approach and will be interested to see how it goes.

I see problems like elven subraces. If another Realms mini-setting is done, do they reference or reproduce the subrace's stats. (Not such a problem for our setting, as it is a website and you can copy/paste the stats to each mini-setting. Not so sure people want to pay twice for the same info OR on the flipside have to purchase more than one mini-setting to get the info/rules required for another).

I am sure people playing the Realms would buy them all anyway.


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## SkidAce (Jul 23, 2015)

SkidAce said:


> I am going to post this thought before I read the thread.
> 
> Yay!  A campaign setting book.  Even though I never use the Forgotten Realms, I always look forward to the sourcebooks.
> 
> As far as everyone else goes, now that we have something on the schedule that many people have been asking for...how long before somebody comes in and tries to pull the tower down?




Very civil discourse from everyone, even those who would don't plan on getting it.

My apologies for being pessimistic.


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## machineelf (Jul 23, 2015)

Greybird said:


> On the one hand, I'm glad to see that there is something out there.  On the other, I'm starting to think that WotC has forgotten that the Sword Coast has a world attached to it.




Yeah, but even Faerun is just one continent in a much bigger world, but no one complains when setting books only focus on that continent. Likewise with Eberron, it focuses mostly on Khorvaire while given much less detailed information about the larger world. 

I think there's nothing wrong with the setting for Forgotten Realms being the Sword Coast, even though there is a much bigger continent and world out there. I actually like the more narrow focus on a campaign setting, because trying to do everything in the Realms will become too watered down and unwieldy in a single setting book.


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## chibi graz'zt (Jul 23, 2015)

woohoooo!!! (does happy dance)

Okay, calmer now. I love everything about this, even the title captures my imagination, giving it the 'Sword Coast' is evocative, even if you dont play in the FR you want to open this. It has a serial/episodic sound to it.  Happy that its an update to compliment the growing collection of 3.5e FR books Im picking up from eBay. 

It'll be a worthy companion to my other books of the Realms.  So glad Wizards is finally getting around to this, and hope, HOPE that this is a precursor to other books for Dark Sun, Greyhawk, and Eberron, (sorry Dragon lance can wait).


----------



## MerricB (Jul 23, 2015)

GobiWon said:


> Purple Dragon Knight? That worries me. That really should not be in a book about the Sword Coast.




Here's the thing: Would Purple Dragon Knights be found on the Sword Coast? Well, there's at least one! (Sir Isteval) 

The most well-received setting of the 4E era was the Neverwinter book. Its tight focus on an area of the Realms allowed for a lot of good material, and material that was easy to use and apply. It also included a few backgrounds of people that came from outside of Neverwinter, but would likely be found in a Neverwinter campaign. Having a Purple Dragon (or an ex-Purple Dragon) turn up on the Sword Coast doesn't seem like too much of a stretch.

One of the key problems with the Forgotten Realms - and especially its presentation in the 3E campaign setting - is that the level of detail was overwhelming to new players. As an introduction to the setting, the Sword Coast is much more approachable. It is also the setting of all three of the published adventure paths so far, (and likely to be the focus of the future ones as well). Meanwhile, the D&D Expeditions line concentrates on the Moonsea region; and there have been some nice articles on their website about the cities they've visited so far (Phlan, Mulmaster and now Hillsfar).

The original presentation of the Realms concentrated quite heavily on the Sword Coast, Dalelands and Cormyr. Yes, other regions were mentioned, but it was easiest to start a campaign in Waterdeep or Shadowdale - not coincidentally, the areas that Ed Greenwood ran his campaigns in. 

So, I'm quite hopeful by this approach. A Sword Coast setting makes a lot of sense given the focus of the published adventures.

Cheers!


----------



## Mercule (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm no Realms fan (old news, I know), but I'm excited by this book for two reasons:

1) It shows they're willing to do setting(ish) books. If I'm lucky, maybe there will be something for Eberron in a year or two.
2) It _might_ mean they've explored the Sword Coast as much as they plan to, right now. Ideally, that means they're ready to give some love to another world; but even somewhere else in the Realms would be a welcome change of pace, as an observer.

The regional scope doesn't bother me because a) the Realms is so freaking huge and b) if I convert this to Eberron, I could see each of the five nations eventually getting covered, which would be cool. We'll have to wait and see how it plays out.

There's a lot of room for error, on this. IMO, the worst possible case is a book of mostly crunch with just enough Realms flavor over the rules to ruin it for everyone else.


----------



## Mavkatzer (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm always thrilled to have more world material to snatch up, mix up, and use in my own homebrew!  I've used FR extensively for that purpose. So I'm very excited for this product!

And though I won't introduce more PC options in my campaigns, beyond what's in the PHB, I'm glad those options will be included for all the many DMs and players that clearly want that material!

We all win!


----------



## machineelf (Jul 23, 2015)

Mercule said:


> I'm no Realms fan (old news, I know), but I'm excited by this book for two reasons:
> 
> 1) It shows they're willing to do setting(ish) books. If I'm lucky, maybe there will be something for Eberron in a year or two.
> 2) It _might_ mean they've explored the Sword Coast as much as they plan to, right now. Ideally, that means they're ready to give some love to another world; but even somewhere else in the Realms would be a welcome change of pace, as an observer.
> ...




Eberron has grown on me over the years. I hope you're right. a separate book for each of the five nations (and another book or few for lands outside the 5 nations) would be excellent. That's probably asking for too much though.


----------



## Remathilis (Jul 23, 2015)

chibi graz'zt said:


> woohoooo!!! (does happy dance)
> 
> Okay, calmer now. I love everything about this, even the title captures my imagination, giving it the 'Sword Coast' is evocative, even if you dont play in the FR you want to open this. It has a serial/episodic sound to it.  Happy that its an update to compliment the growing collection of 3.5e FR books Im picking up from eBay.
> 
> It'll be a worthy companion to my other books of the Realms.  So glad Wizards is finally getting around to this, and hope, HOPE that this is a precursor to other books for Dark Sun, Greyhawk, and Eberron, (sorry Dragon lance can wait).




I can certainly see an Eberron one focused around the Five Nations or a Greyhawk one around the Free City and environs, or even a Guide to Sigil in the same vein. Not sure about Ravenloft (its too diverse to just focus on one region, unless you did Darkon/Necropolis but then you don't get Strahd as a draw.) or the other settings. 

In my best fever dream though, a 5e Kingdom of Karameikos would come out. I'm not holding my breath.


----------



## IgnatiusJ.Reilly (Jul 23, 2015)

It's better than nothing. Well, nothing beyond a couple of adventure paths a year.


----------



## variant (Jul 23, 2015)

If this is the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, why does it have the Purple Dragon Knight? Cormyr is not in the Sword Coast.


----------



## DM Howard (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm actually somewhat heartened by this.  But at this risk of being a party pooper: November?  We wait until November for the first non adventure product besides the core books and the GM Screen?


----------



## SteveC (Jul 23, 2015)

Interesting. I wonder if this counts as product that will be put up as part of "basic"... at least the new character options?

Greedy Steve says "I hope so" but Hopeful Steve says "I hope not, since that will make a lot more people buy it."


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 23, 2015)

variant said:


> If this is the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, why does it have the Purple Dragon Knight? Cormyr is not in the Sword Coast.




This earlier quote should explain well enough. It's really close to the Sword coast. Close enough that it will probably be included in the new map. 


MonsterEnvy said:


> It's just a little past the Well of Dragons it could easily make the cut for a Sword Coast map.
> 
> 
> View attachment 69399
> ...


----------



## EthanSental (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm in, looking forward to it hitting the shelves and my desk soon!


----------



## GobiWon (Jul 23, 2015)

MerricB said:


> Here's the thing: Would Purple Dragon Knights be found on the Sword Coast? Well, there's at least one! (Sir Isteval)
> 
> Cheers!




... But wouldn't you want to see an Inner Sea book. Purple Knights belong in a book about Cormyr, Westgate, Sembia and the Dalelands.


----------



## MerricB (Jul 23, 2015)

GobiWon said:


> ... But wouldn't you want to see an Inner Sea book. Purple Knights belong in a book about Cormyr, Westgate, Sembia and the Dalelands.




Nothing saying they can't be there too! 

At present, all the published adventures are set in the Sword Coast. It makes sense to have the first campaign setting book there. But it also makes sense to include popular character options.

Or would you rather wait another year or two for that book?


----------



## variant (Jul 23, 2015)

MerricB said:


> Nothing saying they can't be there too!
> 
> At present, all the published adventures are set in the Sword Coast. It makes sense to have the first campaign setting book there. But it also makes sense to include popular character options.
> 
> Or would you rather wait another year or two for that book?



Wouldn't repeating content in two different books be a complete waste of space?


----------



## thalmin (Jul 23, 2015)

Dndungeoneer said:


> I'm actually somewhat heartened by this.  But at this risk of being a party pooper: November?  We wait until November for the first non adventure product besides the core books and the GM Screen?



Not a lot of help, I know, but I beleive this will be available in the Wizards core stores 11 days earlier, on Oct 23, like all the other WotC D&D releases have been.


----------



## Jeff Carlsen (Jul 23, 2015)

variant said:


> Wouldn't repeating content in two different books be a complete waste of space?





Only if you expect someone to own both books. Sometimes it can be worth the duplication to make each product more independently useful.

This product makes sense, and I look forward to it, but I'm a little disappointed. I was hoping for something more grand.


----------



## Scrivener of Doom (Jul 23, 2015)

greylurk said:


> In my mind, Cormyr belongs in a book with Sembia, Shadowdale and Zhentil Keep, and I'd love to see that same book include a redo of pirates on the sea of fallen stars.




Agreed. Throw in a resurgent Zhentarim and I'm in!


----------



## guachi (Jul 23, 2015)

Whenever we have threads speculating about upcoming releases, a Sword Coast setting book always seemed the most likely choice to me, aside from the adventures.

I'm glad they are making it although if I get it, it won't be for being the Forgotten Realms, which I have no affinity for. Hopefully there are enough ideas that can be lifted out and dropped into my campaign. Whether it's a new subclass or something setting related like a nicely detailed town. I just wish it weren't going to be a hardback. I'd love something shrink-wrapped or a boxed set. That would be grand.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jul 23, 2015)

KarinsDad said:


> And so the "bigger, better, badder" race begins.



You say that as if it's something negative.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jul 23, 2015)

Barantor said:


> Seems like they did this purely to tie in to the video game, gonna pass.



You'll have to pass on much in the future, I think.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jul 23, 2015)

Morrus said:


> A year? They've put out 6 hardcovers and a boxed set in 10 months. And licensed two DM screens and a bunch of card sets. Another hardcover in a couple of weeks. Then this is also coming, too, in November! Loads of stuff!



Other threads have conclusively established that this is the most sparse D&D launch. By far.


----------



## madrivi (Jul 23, 2015)

Looking forward to buying it, i have enjoyed the Realms since the Grey Box, and i have to say that, even if i thought that a more "continental" setting book could have been a great option, a regional one, has been in the Realms publication tradition since the 1e and 2e times (the FR sourcebooks, like in FR1 Waterdeep and the North and so).


I'm a little biased i know, being an avid collector, so an adventure and a campaign setting before the new year? bring it on! take my money please 

But...please pretty please, maybe, perhaps, some Planescape??? or Dragonlance? Even Gods, not smite me, Greyhawk? 


I need books...more books...arf  my collection needs to be feed....


----------



## pukunui (Jul 23, 2015)

[MENTION=6789403]madrivi[/MENTION]: As WotC's Nathan Stewart said in a recent Forbes interview, 



> *Any plans to tell stories that take place outside of the Forgotten Realms?*
> 
> Well, it depends on what you mean by that, right? Because you’ve already seen some stuff… but if you’re talking about us diving deep and taking a focus like what we’ve done with Tyranny of Dragons, we’re going to stay in the Forgotten Realms for the foreseeable future. It’s big, it’s huge, it’s our most fleshed-out setting or world. It’s got the most to explore. We can do everything in the Realms we want to in the foreseeable future.
> 
> Now, with that being said, we recognize that a lot of fans love other settings, so we will be doing things to give those guys tools to support that in their own way. But we’re gonna have long cycles, and so when we go all in on Greyhawk or Dragonlance or Spelljammers, that’s going to be awhile. We’ll support that stuff, we’ll give players the tools to do things that they want to do, but the main focus will be on the Forgotten Realms for a long time.


----------



## Goemoe (Jul 23, 2015)

unnatural 20 said:


> Yeah, doesn't look like there will be a setting guide produced for the Realms?
> 
> I wonder if this is how settings will be updated. The makers of the Sword Coast PC game have said that they may do other settings in the future. So, maybe a Sharn source book for Eberron, or a  Tyr source book for Dark Sun?



As this book seems connected to the game https://swordcoast.com/ it mustn't be Sharn for Eberron, though I would like it. I say, look out for D&D related products in 2016 and you get a clue, which book comes next...

Though we 'live' in Khorvaire, I still feel the urge to buy it... gnrmbl...


----------



## Baumi (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm really happy about it. I'm not a big FR fan, but since all their books (especially the Adventures) are based on this region, we really could need more information about it. 

It's especially useful for Newcomers, but it should be even interesting for FR Grognards since we still don't know what happened in the last 50 or so years since the 4E incarnations .. and it seems that many of the changes reversed (according to the maps) but with no good explanation.

The only thing that I don't like is the spreading of the Character Options. I like Splatbooks that focuses on that and not wanting to look at all existing books (and online ressources) to see whats available.


----------



## Yaarel (Jul 23, 2015)

There is always something cool going on in the Realms products, to steal and plug-and-play into my own setting.


----------



## Xyrlove Woodsoul (Jul 23, 2015)

It seems pretty cool. I don't mind it being so region specific, I'm usually quite overwhelmed when trying to learn about an entire setting, thus, I will be able to digest things easier. That said, I'm not confident that they'll end up covering all the regions in FR. Consequently, that could very well end up triggering my OCD about being a completest.
   I hope its a nice balance of crunch and fluff. I expect it to be quite lite on the crunch, given that they seem to be trying to make more of a conscious effort to avoid bloat and power creep (I don't quite know how I feel about that strategy though). Hopefully, most of the crunch will be viable (as opposed to, more so, a trap option, Spare the Dying).
   My excitement for 5ed has faded (but no extinguished); but the advent of the demon AP, and Sword, is starting to pique my interest again, especially, if they add some new (old) monsters to the upcoming AP (I'm a bit burnt out on all the cultists as "new" monsters). I hope Sword Coast includes some monsters, as well.
   It's a bit far off for me to get excited about this; and I'm certainly not eagerly anticipating Summer to end.
   Overall, this announcement gives me a good vibe.


----------



## Mirtek (Jul 23, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> It's just a little past the Well of Dragons it could easily make the cut for a Sword Coast map.



That's like "Colorado is just a little past the West coast. It should make the cut for a guide to the West coadt


----------



## JWO (Jul 23, 2015)

The cover art alone makes this an instabuy for me!


----------



## Yaarel (Jul 23, 2015)

I would enjoy Forgotten Realms more if it lacked gods.

Heh, too bad the outcome of the Sundering wasnt, there are no gods.


----------



## Mirtek (Jul 23, 2015)

MerricB said:


> Here's the thing: Would Purple Dragon Knights be found on the Sword Coast?



So could a Samurai from kara-tur or a tuigan rider

Should  a Sumo be included in a guide to the US bevause certainly some can be found there?


----------



## Mirtek (Jul 23, 2015)

Baumi said:


> Isince we still don't know what happened in the last 50 or so years since the 4E incarnations .. e.



Actually we're only around 15 years after 4e


----------



## Herobizkit (Jul 23, 2015)

I hope I can qualify for the "Drizzit" subclass.  ^_^  (only semi-kidding; Baldur's Gate: Dark Alliance for the PS2 had Drizzt as some kind of Fighter/Ranger with mage spells)

I'm excited for new class options, but I can't help but feel that if they don't introduce new mechanics, the classes will probably just be re-shuffling of the already-existing subclasses and features.  Not sure I'm excited for that.


----------



## KarinsDad (Jul 23, 2015)

CapnZapp said:


> You say that as if it's something negative.




Let's just say that the last year of playing D&D without the ground shifting beneath our feet has been a breath of fresh air.


----------



## Henry (Jul 23, 2015)

Yaarel said:


> I would enjoy Forgotten Realms more if it lacked gods.
> 
> Heh, too bad the outcome of the Sundering wasnt, there are no gods.




Thank you, Cato the Elder. 

"Dei Draconum et Carcerum Delenda Est."


----------



## Osgood (Jul 23, 2015)

Remathilis said:


> I can certainly see an Eberron one focused around the Five Nations




I actually don't think a regional approach would work for Eberron.  A single adventure could take the party from Sharn, to the Shadow Marches, to the Lhazaar Principalities, to Xen'drk... Kind of like an Indiana Jones movie. It's one of the reasons for the Lightning rail and airships. The base book has to more broad... Subsequent ones can focus on particular areas.


----------



## Baumi (Jul 23, 2015)

Mirtek said:


> Actually we're only around 15 years after 4e




That make the reversion of some of the Map-Features even more interesting!


----------



## angrylinuxgeek (Jul 23, 2015)

Hopefully the "Purple Dragon Knight" is a warlord.


----------



## Benji (Jul 23, 2015)

Yaarel said:


> I would enjoy Forgotten Realms more if it lacked gods.
> 
> Heh, too bad the outcome of the Sundering wasnt, there are no gods.




I'm aware this is a tangent but why don't you just run realms adventures that have nothing to do with the gods? I know that without the gods realms isn't really realms per se but I'm pretty sure campaigns have been run without them being the only feature.


----------



## Hutchimus Prime (Jul 23, 2015)

Pretty excited for this. Wonder when it'll show up online for preorder?


----------



## neobolts (Jul 23, 2015)

The Sword Coast has enough content to stand own its own as a setting. I'm interested what the narrower setting focus (i.e. Sword Coast not all of FR) will mean for the depth of information included. Plus with the SCL video game they've managed to create a tie-in outside the tabletop stuff that has me interested. Count me in.


----------



## Barantor (Jul 23, 2015)

Benji said:


> I'm aware this is a tangent but why don't you just run realms adventures that have nothing to do with the gods? I know that without the gods realms isn't really realms per se but I'm pretty sure campaigns have been run without them being the only feature.




Thing is with FR, the gods are so integral to the setting that you are most times better off going with another one like even Greyhawk rather than trying to 'write the gods out' and use the lands. 

Personally I find that the glut of info on FR is actually a bad thing as it doesn't leave a lot to the imagination. If I wanted to add in a whole country of cannibals I might have to go to another continent.


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 23, 2015)

CapnZapp said:


> Other threads have conclusively established that this is the most sparse D&D launch. By far.




Then people in those other threads never played AD&D 1e.

This book, by the way, is coming out less than a year from the final core book being released.


----------



## The Hitcher (Jul 23, 2015)

Good move. They've talked about being reluctant to release massive setting books, and I get their reasoning: it's a massive investment for them, new players will be overwhelmed and there's not enough space to go into much detail about anything. I'm totally with them - I'd much rather a detailed look at a small section of a world that's actually of some use than a massive tome I'll never read. I'm not massively interested in FR, but I'm running some of the published adventures. And the cities of the Sword Coast do appeal to me a little, if only because they have such great names. Greenwood was on fire when he named Baldur's Gate, Waterdeep and Neverwinter!

tldr: whatever the logic behind WotC's release schedule, it's working for me.


----------



## justinj3x3 (Jul 23, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> This book, by the way, is coming out less than a year from the final core book being released.




Can you please provide us with the exact months, weeks, days and possibly hours so we can get it right then? 


I think it's safe to assume if someone is saying a year they are rounding to some extent.


----------



## CrusaderX (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm not an expert in the Realms, but I assume Waterdeep is a city where folks from various parts of the Realms frequently visit.  Maybe characters like Purple Dragon Knights are in this new book because they travel in and out of Waterdeep, and not because they're actually native to the Sword Coast itself.  This would enable the book to feature all kinds of characters from different places.


----------



## chibi graz'zt (Jul 23, 2015)

Remathilis said:


> I can certainly see an Eberron one focused around the Five Nations or a Greyhawk one around the Free City and environs, or even a Guide to Sigil in the same vein. Not sure about Ravenloft (its too diverse to just focus on one region, unless you did Darkon/Necropolis but then you don't get Strahd as a draw.) or the other settings.
> 
> In my best fever dream though, a 5e Kingdom of Karameikos would come out. I'm not holding my breath.




Why not? Once the OGL is announced/released I bet you that a slew of campaign guides will come out, its inevitable. Primeval Thule is going on right now and its for 5e.


----------



## chibi graz'zt (Jul 23, 2015)

CrusaderX said:


> I'm not an expert in the Realms, but I assume Waterdeep is a city where folks from various parts of the Realms frequently visit.  Maybe characters like Purple Dragon Knights are in this new book because they travel in and out of Waterdeep, and not because they're actually native to the Sword Coast itself.  This would enable the book to feature all kinds of characters from different places.



Not sure the Purple Dragon Knights would be frequently found in Waterdeep, but they would be seen around the Heartlands, which is the southern part of the Sword Coast, (Berdusk, Ireabor, Elturel, even Baldur's Gate).


----------



## BrockBallingdark (Jul 23, 2015)

The Hitcher said:


> Good move. They've talked about being reluctant to release massive setting books, and I get their reasoning: it's a massive investment for them, new players will be overwhelmed and there's not enough space to go into much detail about anything. I'm totally with them - I'd much rather a detailed look at a small section of a world that's actually of some use than a massive tome I'll never read. I'm not massively interested in FR, but I'm running some of the published adventures. And the cities of the Sword Coast do appeal to me a little, if only because they have such great names. Greenwood was on fire when he named Baldur's Gate, Waterdeep and Neverwinter!
> 
> tldr: whatever the logic behind WotC's release schedule, it's working for me.




Even though I am not a FR fan at all, I do like WOTC's approach with these books.  The massive setting books were always overwhelming, not just for the new players!

I applaud this approach.  (Now get Eberron going!)


----------



## JohnnyZemo (Jul 23, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Then people in those other threads never played AD&D 1e.




Exactly what I was thinking.  The core books (MM, PHB, DMG) were spread out over three years (1977-1979), and for several years after there was only one new hardcover book per year.

I do miss the days when TSR was putting out lots of new modules, but it seems like modules don't sell well these days.  Paizo still puts out a new adventure path installment every month, but they've drastically cut back their standalone module releases.


----------



## Morrus (Jul 23, 2015)

CapnZapp said:


> Other threads have conclusively established that this is the most sparse D&D launch. By far.




Well, that's just demonstrably not true.  The 1E core books came out one a _year_ in 1977, 1978, and 1979.   2E core rulebooks were spread from 1989-1991, with the _Monstrous Manual_ (replacing the _Monstrous Compendium_) not arriving until 1993.  Not until 3E in 2000 did an edition release the core books in the first year.


----------



## Pramas (Jul 23, 2015)

<<It's interesting that a product called "Adventurer's Handbook" was cancelled (or "not announced") earlier this year. Perhaps this is based on work done on that product?>>

Nope. This was our project from the ground up.


----------



## Remathilis (Jul 23, 2015)

chibi graz'zt said:


> Why not? Once the OGL is announced/released I bet you that a slew of campaign guides will come out, its inevitable. Primeval Thule is going on right now and its for 5e.




My point about the Fever Dream is that I doubt Mystara is high on WorC's "to do" list of settings. Its probably up right there with Birthright. 

Give me an Eberron book, a Sigil book, and a good Ravenloft/Barovia adventure and I'll be satisfied. Anything else is gravy.


----------



## Nine Hands (Jul 23, 2015)

CrusaderX said:


> I'm not an expert in the Realms, but I assume Waterdeep is a city where folks from various parts of the Realms frequently visit.  Maybe characters like Purple Dragon Knights are in this new book because they travel in and out of Waterdeep, and not because they're actually native to the Sword Coast itself.  This would enable the book to feature all kinds of characters from different places.




I wonder if the inclusion of a Purple Dragon Knight is included because it is also in the Sword Coast Legends video game?  Plus the fact that Cormyr is just over the mountains, it isn't very far from the Sword Cost, plus Sir Isteval, as someone already mentioned, is a Purple Dragon Knight and he is in Waterdeep during the Tyranny of Dragons campaign.

I also feel that Adventures League provides mini campaign settings for the cities of the Moonsea (Phlan, Mulmaster, and Hillsfar).  It will be interesting to see where they end up in a few years and it will be awesome to have all those cities given some detail as well.


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 23, 2015)

justinj3x3 said:


> Can you please provide us with the exact months, weeks, days and possibly hours so we can get it right then?
> 
> 
> I think it's safe to assume if someone is saying a year they are rounding to some extent.




Not sure why you decided to strawman me (and in a snarky way), but I was not responding to someone who mentioned a year.


----------



## JeffB (Jul 23, 2015)

So WHO  is writing this book?


----------



## justinj3x3 (Jul 23, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Not sure why you decided to strawman me (and in a snarky way), but I was not responding to someone who mentioned a year.




I wasn't strawmaning you I was ribbing. And I'm naturaly snarky so take it with a grain of salt. Kind of why I added the smiley. Whether you were responding or just saying it, I just thought it was funny you pointed it out when the products are pretty much a year apart.


----------



## Remathilis (Jul 23, 2015)

Nine Hands said:


> I wonder if the inclusion of a Purple Dragon Knight is included because it is also in the Sword Coast Legends video game?  Plus the fact that Cormyr is just over the mountains, it isn't very far from the Sword Cost, plus Sir Isteval, as someone already mentioned, is a Purple Dragon Knight and he is in Waterdeep during the Tyranny of Dragons campaign.




I think it might be simpler than that. 

1.) It allows for a new martial option "tied" to Faerun. PDK is a lot more romantic and exciting than "Flaming Fist Mercenary" and its a good way to create a "knight" subclass.
2.) Its a popular FR archetype and there is no guarantee we'll be getting a Cormyr book anytime soon. 
3.) Something related to RoD or SCL (an NPC, a character option, etc). 
4.) Despite its focus on the Sword Coast, it might be the only Forgotten Realms Campaign Book we get for a while. Might as well cram the "best of" into it. 

For all those reasons, I full expect "Red Wizard of Thay" to be there too.


----------



## I'm A Banana (Jul 23, 2015)

Not a huge Realms fan, but........what the hell, I'm sure there's lootables.


----------



## Moorcrys (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm neutral (unaligned?) on the realms, but it's fine with me - there's always stuff to mine and things to inspire me for my own worldbuilding.

My personal preference would be to include something generic like a 'swashbuckler' in a broader themed 'unearthed arcana'-like core supplement and leave really specific Realms-themed backgrounds and subclasses like 'purple dragon knight' for a setting themed book. That way my players don't need to look to the forgotten realms for a generic themed class. But that's nitpicking. I'll certainly buy it.


----------



## TarionzCousin (Jul 23, 2015)

Kamikaze Midget said:


> Not a huge Realms fan, but........what the hell, I'm sure there's lootables.



Yeah, even if you don't game in the Realms you may still kill this book and take its stuff.


----------



## S_Dalsgaard (Jul 23, 2015)

Hasn't Cormyr been expanding to the west for the last hundred years (they apparently annexed Proskur in 1405 DR)? That might explain inclusion of the Dragon Knights.


----------



## Fildrigar (Jul 23, 2015)

Pramas said:


> <<It's interesting that a product called "Adventurer's Handbook" was cancelled (or "not announced") earlier this year. Perhaps this is based on work done on that product?>>
> 
> Nope. This was our project from the ground up.




A wild PRAMAS appeared...

He uses Logic...

It's not very effective...


----------



## Moorcrys (Jul 23, 2015)

I smell a conspiracy.


----------



## Yaarel (Jul 23, 2015)

Benji said:


> Why don't you just run realms adventures that have nothing to do with the gods? I know that without the gods realms isn't really realms per se but I'm pretty sure campaigns have been run without them being the only feature.




Something like that. I dont use the Forgotten Realms setting because the gods are too baked into it. But the Realms material often has some cool stuff that is setting-neutral enough to take out and import into the setting that I use.


----------



## Corpsetaker (Jul 23, 2015)

Fildrigar said:


> THIS JUST IN....
> 
> .....WIZARDS ANNOUNCES A SETTING BOOK.....
> 
> ...




Actually this is what can happen when you have such a sparse release schedule. Every book that comes out is expected to be the best quality and to have everything in it. If you are going to increase the product load then prepare for this kind of behavior. You can't blame anyone for feeling this way.


----------



## Staffan (Jul 23, 2015)

Morrus said:


> Well, that's just demonstrably not true.  The 1E core books came out one a _year_ in 1977, 1978, and 1979.   2E core rulebooks were spread from 1989-1991, with the _Monstrous Manual_ (replacing the _Monstrous Compendium_) not arriving until 1993.  Not until 3E in 2000 did an edition release the core books in the first year.



You're right about 1e, but not 2e. The core books: Player's Handbook, Dungeon Master's Guide, and Monstrous Compendium were all published in 1989 (February, May, and June, with MC2 in August). The Monstrous Manual was a reprint of earlier releases, bringing the loose-leaf MC1+2 as well as some of the greater hits from other MCs into a hardback format, but the core product was originally the Monstrous Compendium.

Other books released within a year of the 2e PHB were:
Complete Fighter's Handbook
Complete Thief's Handbook
Character Sheets
DM Screen
Time of the Dragon (DL boxed set)
In Search of Dragons
Dragon Keep
Dragon Magic
The World of Krynn Trail Map
Forgotten Realms Adventures
MC3: Forgotten Realms
Dreams of the Red Wizards
Hall of Heroes
Cities of Mystery
The Bloodstone Lands
Curse of the Azure Bonds
Shadowdale
Tantras
Waterdeep
Gateway to Raven's Bluff, the Living City
Mad Monkey vs the Dragon Claw
The City of Greyhawk
Fate of Istus
Gargoyle
Child's Play
Puppets
Vale of the Mage
Test of the Samurai
Kara-Tur Trail Map
Spelljammer: Adventures in Space
Wildspace

That's a total of 35 products released between February 1989 and January 1990. These include two setting-defining boxed sets, and one hardback updating another to the new edition. With 5e, we've had maybe a dozen, counting accessories (which I did above, to be fair).


----------



## I'm A Banana (Jul 23, 2015)

angrylinuxgeek said:


> Hopefully the "Purple Dragon Knight" is a warlord.




Actually given the history of the archetype, this would not be surprising to me. In fact, it'd be a little surprising to me if it  _wasn't_.


----------



## JeffB (Jul 23, 2015)

Yeah, AFAIC, core books don't count here.

In addition, 1977-1979 is a fAR different time in publishing then now. 

TSR was booming and producing the very first hardback RPG books doing them on typewriters and such.  This was a HUGE undertaking, far greater than today. And one guy had to oversee ALL of it.

Bottom line- even in the 1970s, post wood/white box- TSR was producing material at a faster rate for D&D than now. ALL the little brown book supplements were published in 1.5 years...Greyhawk, Blackmoor, Eldritch Wizardry, Gods Demigods, and Heroes, and Swords & Spells. They were publishing things like Boot Hill, and Warriors of Mars, EPT, Dungeon, Tractics, etc etc etc.

They even did some licensing- Wee Warriors...Judges Guild...


----------



## Wrathamon (Jul 23, 2015)

Maybe the storyline has to a bit to do with Purple Dragon Knights spreading out after Tyranny of Dragons?


----------



## Blue (Jul 23, 2015)

I'm glad they are releasing something.  But I wish it wasn't something as tired as the FR.  There are so many suppliments out for it.  It's also so heavily detailed that I won't run it.  So sadly no matter how much I want an expansion, they have already turned me off to the majority of the book.  Looks like the 3.5 business plan - include mechanics and setting int he same book so if you want one you need to pick up the other.  I have two freaking shelves full of 3.0 and 3.5 I don't play anymore, I don't know if they will pull me into ordering with just the mechanics again.


----------



## Fildrigar (Jul 23, 2015)

Corpsetaker said:


> Actually this is what can happen when you have such a sparse release schedule. Every book that comes out is expected to be the best quality and to have everything in it. If you are going to increase the product load then prepare for this kind of behavior. You can't blame anyone for feeling this way.






			
				These Forum said:
			
		

> We want a setting book. We want a setting book. Darn it, Wizards, we want a setting book.




Wizards announces a setting book.



			
				These Forums said:
			
		

> That's not exactly what I wanted! I want the exact setting book that I'm picturing in my mind right now! I haven't even seen it yet, but I just know it's going to suck.


----------



## TwoSix (Jul 23, 2015)

Mirtek said:


> That's like "Colorado is just a little past the West coast. It should make the cut for a guide to the West coadt




If the only other books coming out were "Guide to the Deep South" and "Guide to New England", throw it in there.  Hell, throw in everything past the 100th parallel.


----------



## Mirtek (Jul 23, 2015)

S_Dalsgaard said:


> Hasn't Cormyr been expanding to the west for the last hundred years (they apparently annexed Proskur in 1405 DR)? That might explain inclusion of the Dragon Knights.



 Not that much. They managed to expand a little into Sembia (mostly thanks to Sembian cities welcoming them as liberators from Shade Enclave), but after some more wars with Sembia/Netheril they were forced to abandon most gains, leaving the cities as sort of demilitarized zone between them an Sembia. The latest war during the Sundering saw a large scale invasion by Sembia/Netheril deep into Cormyr that they were barely able to turn back


----------



## Uder (Jul 23, 2015)

Pramas said:


> Nope. This was our project from the ground up.




"Outsourced"


----------



## orangefruitbat (Jul 23, 2015)

There's a simple answer to why Purple Knights are included:

"All hail the glory of Imperial Cormyr and its august Emperor, Azoun IX, the Great and Terrible Scourge of the West!"

Who's to say that borders and nations don't change...


----------



## Mirtek (Jul 23, 2015)

orangefruitbat said:


> There's a simple answer to why Purple Knights are included:
> 
> "All hail the glory of Imperial Cormyr and its august Emperor, Azoun IX, the Great and Terrible Scourge of the West!"
> 
> Who's to say that borders and nations don't change...



Actually Cormyr is one of the players where we have most current info thanks to the novels. They're just glad to have kept their existing borders during their last war a very short while ago


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 23, 2015)

Mirtek said:


> Not that much. They managed to expand a little into Sembia (mostly thanks to Sembian cities welcoming them as liberators from Shade Enclave), but after some more wars with Sembia/Netheril they were forced to abandon most gains, leaving the cities as sort of demilitarized zone between them an Sembia. The latest war during the Sundering saw a large scale invasion by Sembia/Netheril deep into Cormyr that they were barely able to turn back





Mirtek said:


> Actually Cormyr is one of the players where we have most current info thanks to the novels. They're just glad to have kept their existing borders during their last war a very short while ago




Well the thing is that is has been a few years since the last events involving Cormyr in the novels. Added on Cormyr's major rival Netheril kind of exploded.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 23, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Then people in those other threads never played AD&D 1e.
> 
> This book, by the way, is coming out less than a year from the final core book being released.




Even ADnD was not *this* sparse.


----------



## The Hitcher (Jul 24, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Even ADnD was not *this* sparse.




Are you joking? The core books were released a year apart.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 24, 2015)

The Hitcher said:


> Are you joking? The core books were released a year apart.




Remember when we used to have a Dragon magazine every month?

Ah, those young and innocent days of constant monthly support.


----------



## JeffB (Jul 24, 2015)

So can we get a list of authors?


----------



## Mirtek (Jul 24, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Well the thing is that is has been a few years since the last events involving Cormyr in the novels. Added on Cormyr's major rival Netheril kind of exploded.



But they exploded while in the middle of giving Cormyr a good beating, their crash was what saved Cormyr. Cormyr's country side was pillaged, one major city taken and re-taken, it's armies heavily decimated, Cormyr is in no shape to conquer hundreds of miles westward in just a few years


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 24, 2015)

ChapolimX said:


> They're from Cormyr. Another region. A continental one.






variant said:


> If this is the Sword Coast Adventurer’s Guide, why does it have the Purple Dragon Knight? Cormyr is not in the Sword Coast.






Mirtek said:


> But they exploded while in the middle of giving Cormyr a good beating, their crash was what saved Cormyr. Cormyr's country side was pillaged, one major city taken and re-taken, it's armies heavily decimated, Cormyr is in no shape to conquer hundreds of miles westward in just a few years




They need like 20 miles to show up on a sword coast map. As they are right next to the Well of Dragons. No one owns the Land there so they could expand a bit. With Netheril gone.


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 24, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Even ADnD was not *this* sparse.




It was worse in the beginning.  Add up all the pages of Dragon which were about AD&D, and the first core book, and compare it to the number of pages WOTC's put out in the first year for 5e in the six major releases, and add the pages in Dragon+ which are actually about 5e, and add the Wizards.com articles about 5e (like Legends and Lore), and you will find 5e well outpaces AD&D in the first year.


----------



## graves3141 (Jul 24, 2015)

Wow, I can't believe a setting book is actually in the works  I expected something different since I remember Perkins saying WotC was going to provide content in "new and surprising ways".  This campaign book has a more narrow focus than a traditional setting book but I wouldn't call that terribly new and surprising, but that's just me.  Anyway, I'm I'm very happy about this news and I can't wait to get my hands on this sucker!

Also, my guess is that this book will mark the end of the FR APs and that the next AP will be in another world (probably Eberron).  That's cool with me though, one book like this for several settings over the life of this edition will be just fine.  I wonder about the page count of this book... for $40 bucks I'm guessing around 192 pages or so.


----------



## gyor (Jul 24, 2015)

With the fall of Netheril itself I would not be surprised if Cormyr just walked in and took Sembia, the Sembians, aside from some of the elites, would likely welcome them. At the very least the middle cities would likely be annex.

 Also take into account that given Cormyr's heavy causalities Cormyr might be recruiting beyond it boarders.

 Also Ambassadors to Waterdeep, Balder's Gate, Neverwinter, all likely are guarded by Purple Dragons. Other high Cormyran dignitaries may also have Purple Dragon Knights.

 Lastly if Purple Dragon Knight is a Paladin subclass, they're maybe Purple Dragon Knights who take the oath, but dedicate it to another region/kingdom/city state. Being Cormyran may no longer be required oddly.

 Which brings me to what makes me curious.

 Which classes have Purple Dragon Knight, Bladesinger as subclasses (Swashbuckler we already know is a Rogue).

 Which other classes have subclasses?

 Which races have new subraces?

 My guess is we get Elderin (Star Elf?), Moon Elf, Sun Elf, Wild Elf, Wood Elf, maybe Sea Elf.

 Deep Gnomes will likely be in.

 Grey Half-Orc?

 Grey Dwarf.

 Halfling Ghostwise

 Imaskari Human



 Half-Drow

 How about races that aren't normally given subraces, like Tiefling, perhaps Demonborn, or you could make the Shadar Kai and Vryloka subraces (unlikely, but both races have simularities in origin stories to 4e Tieflings, maybe 5e Tieflings).

 Backgrounds will likely be mostly region based, mostly Sword Coast regions and maybe Cormyr.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 24, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> It was worse in the beginning.  Add up all the pages of Dragon which were about AD&D, and the first core book, and compare it to the number of pages WOTC's put out in the first year for 5e in the six major releases, and add the pages in Dragon+ which are actually about 5e, and add the Wizards.com articles about 5e (like Legends and Lore), and you will find 5e well outpaces AD&D in the first year.




Dragon did about 384 pages per year in the beginning which is 1 and a half 256 page "Hardcovers" plus of course the other stuff being produced.

That is certainly not insignificant.


----------



## DongMaster (Jul 24, 2015)

I have been putting my D&D plans on hiatus because the lack of a settings book.

This will change everything!


----------



## Hand of Evil (Jul 24, 2015)

I like that it is outsourced, gives me hope of old material as guidelines and we get a new take on the Sword Coast.


----------



## Kurzon (Jul 24, 2015)

Forgotten Realms? Blade Singers? This sounds like pure fan service. Pass. 

Someone wake me when we get a product that isn't spoon feeding us sentimental crap like this. Maybe something that spurs creativity & originality, rather than rehashing tired tropes.


----------



## Parmandur (Jul 24, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Dragon did about 384 pages per year in the beginning which is 1 and a half 256 page "Hardcovers" plus of course the other stuff being produced.
> 
> 
> 
> That is certainly not insignificant.





Note he said the pages that covered AD&D; they did coverage for all sorts of things, from what I gather.


----------



## Parmandur (Jul 24, 2015)

gyor said:


> With the fall of Netheril itself I would not be surprised if Cormyr just walked in and took Sembia, the Sembians, aside from some of the elites, would likely welcome them. At the very least the middle cities would likely be annex.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





Welll...we already have a Fighter subclass with magic.  So, I'll throw out that maybe BladeSinger will be a Wizard with martial stuff...?

Purple Dragon Knight as either a Paladin it Fighter; not sure what kind of powers they would get?

Red Wizards as a....Wizard Tradition seems plausible.

Mist of the Elf subraces are already in the PHab, doubt they will change that:aquatic elves, maybe...


----------



## DEFCON 1 (Jul 24, 2015)

Kurzon said:


> Forgotten Realms? Blade Singers? This sounds like pure fan service. Pass.
> 
> Someone wake me when we get a product that isn't spoon feeding us sentimental crap like this. Maybe something that spurs creativity & originality, rather than rehashing tired tropes.




Nah... I think we'll just let you keep sleeping through all of it.  Maybe you'll dream something you like while the rest of us are actually playing the game.


----------



## CapnZapp (Jul 24, 2015)

DEFCON 1 said:


> Nah... I think we'll just let you keep sleeping through all of it.  Maybe you'll dream something you like while the rest of us are actually playing the game.



Yeah. What is dnd if not reactionary nostalgia and tired tropes?

At least, that's why I love the game!


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 24, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Dragon did about 384 pages per year in the beginning which is 1 and a half 256 page "Hardcovers" plus of course the other stuff being produced.
> 
> That is certainly not insignificant.




I didn't say it was insignificant.  I said 5e well outpaced AD&D in the first year.  6 major releases in 12 months, additional content in articles and Dragon+, additional accessories like DM screen and licensed spell cards, 5e isn't nearly as sparse a release schedule as AD&D 1e.


----------



## Ashran (Jul 24, 2015)

Kurzon said:


> Forgotten Realms? Blade Singers? This sounds like pure fan service. Pass.
> 
> Someone wake me when we get a product that isn't spoon feeding us sentimental crap like this. Maybe something that spurs creativity & originality, rather than rehashing tired tropes.




That drove me to thinking... What would be "something that spurs creativity & originality" exactly ?. A book on how to create adventures/campaign setting ? It has been done before. Anything else ? I mean, the whole game is about giving you the tools to get creative and spurs creativity, so, when they announces something with more tools for just that my first instinct is to say "cool". But it's just me...

This is not a troll, I would really love to read what people in this thread disatisfied with the annoncement would consider creative & original. A new campaign setting, maybe? What kind of tools do you feel we are missing at this point ?


----------



## Mercule (Jul 24, 2015)

Parmandur said:


> Welll...we already have a Fighter subclass with magic.  So, I'll throw out that maybe BladeSinger will be a Wizard with martial stuff...?



More likely a Bard subclass, I'd think. Take the Valor Bard and swap out the Inspiration and Combat Magic with some bladesong related toys. Not sure the Valor Bard isn't good enough on its own, though.

I could also see the Bladesinger as a Fighter subclass, though I'm not sure how it'd be functionally different from the Eldritch Knight.

I don't see it being a Wizard subclass. Maybe you could add light armor and a couple toys for the school, but I can't think of anything that wouldn't either be unbalanced or be functionally equivalent to a single-level dip into Fighter.

Monk or Paladin, maybe, but those are pretty big stretches.


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 24, 2015)

Parmandur said:


> Note he said the pages that covered AD&D; they did coverage for all sorts of things, from what I gather.




Yes, particularly in the early years it was a general tabletop gaming magazine with some coverage or AD&D.

I am sympathetic to the desire for more content for 5e.  I love the game, and I like reading new stuff for this game.  I just also like to put the release schedule in perspective - it's honestly about the norm for about half the editions of D&D.  Some editions had a much heavier release schedule (3e and 4e), but the others had about this same release schedule in the beginning (1e and 2e).  Expressing a desire for more content doesn't need to be mixed with exaggeration.  I know it's the Internet so exaggeration comes with the territory. But I also think it's fair to point it out when it's done.


----------



## S_Dalsgaard (Jul 24, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Dragon did about 384 pages per year in the beginning which is 1 and a half 256 page "Hardcovers" plus of course the other stuff being produced.
> 
> That is certainly not insignificant.




The first year of Dragon was six issues, each at 32 pages, of which maybe half were D&D related. That's 192 pages or around a hundred related to AD&D (which is pretty much equal to the page count of HotDQ).

The second year (77-78) they did a bit more, with eight issues at up to 38 pages.


----------



## The Grassy Gnoll (Jul 24, 2015)

Thread is TLR, but I'm looking forward to this. 
I only have the original FR Grey Box which had snippets of info only. With the adventures for 5e being set on the Sword Coast, this sounds great for me.
And FWIW, I think it much more sensible to do 'regions' rather than all of the FR for settings, anyway. A Lonely Planet guidebook for Earth would be far less detailed and colourful than those that break the world down into manageable, travellable chunks.
It's a Yay from me.


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jul 24, 2015)

I think they simply included the Purple Dragon Knight because it's iconic, and Cormyr is close enough for them to be involved at least tangentially. I'm sure there's going to be other hooks from other parts of Faerun in this book as well; the Sword Coast is certainly not isolated.

This mini-setting idea might be good or bad, depending. I was thinking the other day about the number of settings people want to see, and with the current rate of releases, it will be decades before something is published for everything. Breaking the settings down into smaller parts increases that time frame exponentially. Most likely, however, we're just not going to see something published from every setting. Which is probably a good thing.

I do like the focus on one piece of the setting, however. It makes it easier to use for newer DMs. With a book about the whole of Faerun, you still have some work to do to figure out where the campaign will start and where it will go. Narrowing the focus like this makes that a little easier. Hopefully it will have maps within it that easily allow a sandbox style campaign to happen.


Actually... wasn't there mention when one of the surveys was completed that a majority of people wanted to see sand box style content? I wonder if this product has anything to do with that.

(As an aside, love to see that Green Ronin is involved. they've quickly become one of my favorite publishers in the new wave of RPG content)


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 24, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> I didn't say it was insignificant.  I said 5e well outpaced AD&D in the first year.  6 major releases in 12 months, additional content in articles and Dragon+, additional accessories like DM screen and licensed spell cards, 5e isn't nearly as sparse a release schedule as AD&D 1e.




The first 4 major releases of 5e just match what was already available originally (although not compiled into hardback) and the other 2 may or may not actually be useful depending if you use pre-designed adventures or not which historically is not the case.

So really we currently have a few UA articles and a couple of pages from the Dragon+


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> and the other 2 may or may not actually be useful depending if you use pre-designed adventures or not which historically is not the case.




Uh no lots of people use Pre Designed Adventures if only for ideas. Stuff like Against the Giants and Tomb of Horrors would not be so iconic if they were not used.


----------



## Patrick McGill (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> The first 4 major releases of 5e just match what was already available originally (although not compiled into hardback) and the other 2 may or may not actually be useful depending if you use pre-designed adventures or not which historically is not the case.
> 
> So really we currently have a few UA articles and a couple of pages from the Dragon+




What edition of D&D had available at the very beginning the number of classes, races, and subclasses that 5e offered right at the start? What you can build from the first three 5e books took a bit longer to get, even in the last edition.


----------



## Sword of Spirit (Jul 25, 2015)

Hmm...

Best case scenario that I could see is that this is sort of a combo product. The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting Volume 1, which includes all the extra crunch, timelines, and cosmology details you need for adventures in any part of the Realms (or at least Faerun), plus specific setting details on the Sword Coast. 

Then subsequent volumes would be pure fluff focusing on another large region in the Realms, _or_ such area specific coverage could be baked in to the mega-adventures. So, for instance, if they had been doing this already (which I doubt they are) the Rage of Demons book would double as an Underdark region guide.

What I hope we do not see is additional regional setting books also loaded with crunch-bloat. So I'm hoping that the inclusion of Purple Dragon Knight means this book's crunch is pan-Realms. I hope the other subclasses are more or less Realms comprehensive. Sha'ir, Wu jen, etc. I do not want to see them multiplying crunch just to make sure each region book has several new options.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Uh no lots of people use Pre Designed Adventures if only for ideas. Stuff like Against the Giants and Tomb of Horrors would not be so iconic if they were not used.




Which begs the question: What were people using for seven years before "Against the Giants"?


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> The first 4 major releases of 5e just match what was already available originally (although not compiled into hardback) and the other 2 may or may not actually be useful depending if you use pre-designed adventures or not which historically is not the case.
> 
> So really we currently have a few UA articles and a couple of pages from the Dragon+




The reference was to the first year of 1e AD&D, where they just had one hardback book out (a core book) and 6 Dragon magazines, which had roughly half their content about the game.  The first four major releases don't match anything that was already available for 5e...nobody had the Stater Set, PHB, MM, or DMG.  And we're not talking about "useful" we're discussing sparseness of the release schedule.  The first year of 5e content releases clearly outpaces the first year of AD&D 1e content releases.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Which begs the question: What were people using for seven years before "Against the Giants"?




Nothing because the Release Schedule was really poor.

So you have not really helped your point.


----------



## Uder (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Which begs the question: What were people using for seven years before "Against the Giants"?




Third party & home brew.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

Patrick McGill said:


> What edition of D&D had available at the very beginning the number of classes, races, and subclasses that 5e offered right at the start? What you can build from the first three 5e books took a bit longer to get, even in the last edition.




That is a good question.  If we can only count original ideas in the core books then I guess that oDnD had the most, ADnD had nothing new in core, maybe the Bard?, 3e added the Sorcerer.

Pretty slim pickings for original ideas though.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Nothing because the Release Schedule was really poor.




Bingo, exactly!  Not using pre-packed adventures.  QED.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> The reference was to the first year of 1e AD&D, where they just had one hardback book out (a core book) and 6 Dragon magazines, which had roughly half their content about the game.  The first four major releases don't match anything that was already available for 5e...nobody had the Stater Set, PHB, MM, or DMG.  And we're not talking about "useful" we're discussing sparseness of the release schedule.  The first year of 5e content releases clearly outpaces the first year of AD&D 1e content releases.




If your first Hardcover is a Monster Manual then obviously you must already have rules for creating PCs to fight the monsters.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Bingo, exactly!  Not using pre-packed adventures.  QED.




But once they started being made people used them. So it's still not helping your point.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> But once they started being made people used them. So it's still not helping your point.




Of course some people used them?  How would we have such iconic adventures as "Against the Giants" and "Tomb of Horrors" if no one used them?


----------



## Henry (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> Bingo, exactly!  Not using pre-packed adventures.  QED.




Pioneers used wash tubs and dolly sticks and clotheslines, but most i'm pretty sure would have jumped at the chance to have a modern washer and dryer if they could have.  unlike AD&D, I have a lot less time in the day to write adventures and campaign settings from whole cloth, so going back to AD&D levels of support is not a desired state for me. It might be one forced by the realities of WotC's business model, but it's not an ideal state.


----------



## aramis erak (Jul 25, 2015)

Jester Canuck said:


> I just hope Sword Coast Legends doesn't get delayed too long. Of course, it's currently aimed at late September, so they have a couple months of wiggle room.
> 
> It's a curious idea for a product. An update on the Realms AND a campaign sourcebook (coming out to months after the campaign book (and thus too late for Encounters to use) AND a splatbook for everyone.
> This makes the product sound rather... bloated actually. And the $40 price suggests it'll be in the 250-page range They can't possibly do the Realms justice in that short of space and provide enough PC content to satisfy people.
> ...




The new ALPG implies season three is under the sword coast, so really, still in the region.


----------



## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> If your first Hardcover is a Monster Manual then obviously you must already have rules for creating PCs to fight the monsters.




From another game I suppose, which came out in a different year from that book so doesn't count for that year's release schedule.  And it wasn't really compatible (hence two more core books would be released which changed many many rules). I mean your argument is roughly the equivalent of saying the 5e PHB isn't that important because people could try and create PCs from 2e books.  I am not even sure what your point is anymore.  Are you still even arguing the 1e AD&D first year had more published content than the 5e first year has? Nothing you've said in response for a while now seems to feed that argument.


----------



## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> From another game I suppose, which came out in a different year from that book so doesn't count for that year's release schedule.  And it wasn't really compatible (hence two more core books would be released which changed many many rules). I mean your argument is roughly the equivalent of saying the 5e PHB isn't that important because people could try and create PCs from 2e books.  I am not even sure what your point is anymore.  Are you still even arguing the 1e AD&D first year had more published content than the 5e first year has? Nothing you've said in response for a while now seems to feed that argument.




I dont see the core rules as extra content, it is the base level, the minimum that you can produce.  And honestly I see the UA articles and the free player booklet as better content then the two mega adventures so that leaves us at an impasse I guess.


----------



## MonsterEnvy (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> I dont see the core rules as extra content, it is the base level, the minimum that you can produce.  And honestly I see the UA articles and the free player booklet as better content then the two mega adventures so that leaves us at an impasse I guess.




I don't understand how I single thing you said counters his points at all. The Core Rules are not extra content. It does not change the fact that it took a year for each of them to come out for 1e. Meaning by default that AD&D had a sparser 1st year then 5e. 

Also I don't agree at all about the three mega adventures we are getting this year. (Rage of Demons comes out before the 1st year passes for 5e.) Rage of Demons will also include stuff like the Demon Lord stat Blocks so it will be a popular purchase for that alone.


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> I dont see the core rules as extra content, it is the base level, the minimum that you can produce.  And honestly I see the UA articles and the free player booklet as better content then the two mega adventures so that leaves us at an impasse I guess.




Only if you keep insisting that content you prefer is the only content that can count towards content produced.  It's apple and oranges.  It's irrelevant to the question of "how much content was produced", which is what I was replying to.  I mean, if I ask you how many jelly beans are in a jar, do you answer by only counting the flavors you like? What does your personal preference have anything to do with the question of quantity of content produced in the first year?


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## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> I don't understand how I single thing you said counters his points at all. The Core Rules are not extra content. It does not change the fact that it took a year for each of them to come out for 1e. Meaning by default that AD&D had a sparser 1st year then 5e.




If that was true then you could not actually play ADnD until at least the release of the Players Handbook or even the DMG which means that the first year of ADnD starts from the release of the DMG.  The other years are just hanging out, maybe doing play testing, waiting for the release of the rules.



> Also I don't agree at all about the three mega adventures we are getting this year. (Rage of Demons comes out before the 1st year passes for 5e.) Rage of Demons will also include stuff like the Demon Lord stat Blocks so it will be a popular purchase for that alone.




Obviously without seeing the Rage of Demons, I can not comment on the Demon Lord Stats and on the other hand personally the stats for Gromph and Drizzt would be more interesting.  I do know that for me the inclusion of Tiamats stat blocks did not influence my decision whether to buy The Rise of Tiamat or not.


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## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Only if you keep insisting that content you prefer is the only content that can count towards content produced.  It's apple and oranges.  It's irrelevant to the question of "how much content was produced", which is what I was replying to.  I mean, if I ask you how many jelly beans are in a jar, do you answer by only counting the flavors you like? What does your personal preference have anything to do with the question of quantity of content produced in the first year?




One issue of Dragon has more potential benefit then one super adventure.  It just appeals to a wider audience.  It would be like comparing a big apple to a basket of fruit.  And you get at least six of those in the first year - before the release of the Monster Manual.


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## mach1.9pants (Jul 25, 2015)

Misunderstood sorry


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## MonsterEnvy (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> One issue of Dragon has more potential benefit then one super adventure.  It just appeals to a wider audience.  It would be like comparing a big apple to a basket of fruit.  And you get at least six of those in the first year - before the release of the Monster Manual.




No Because Dragon was only 32 pages at the time and half of it had nothing to do with D&D.


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## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> No Because Dragon was only 32 pages at the time and half of it had nothing to do with D&D.




You dont need to like all of a fruit basket to get more from a fruit basket.  The fact that you can not use half of it does not mean that no one can use all of it.


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> One issue of Dragon has more potential benefit then one super adventure.




Again, this looks to me like I am asking you to count jelly beans in a jar, and you tell me you don't want to count the flavors you don't like.  Nobody is asking you what content you like.  Why is that in any way relevant to counting the quantity of content?



> It just appeals to a wider audience.




That's your personal preference, with no hard data to support.  AND it's still not relevant to what we're discussing.  What does any of this have to do with counting the quantity of content produced in the first year?


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## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Again, this looks to me like I am asking you to count jelly beans in a jar, and you tell me you don't want to count the flavors you don't like.  Nobody is asking you what content you like.  Why is that in any way relevant to counting the quantity of content?




No one is saying you can not have jelly beans.  I am saying that ADnD had more jelly beans, is that more clear for you?


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> No one is saying you can not have jelly beans.  I am saying that ADnD had more jelly beans, is that more clear for you?




But it didn't, at least not in the first year.  Jelly beans is content.  5e has a larger quantity of content in the first year, than AD&D 1e had in the first year.  It's not relevant if you don't like the 5e content, any more than it's relevant that you don't like certain flavors of jelly beans when asked how many jelly beans are in a jar.  It really doesn't matter if you find content useful for your own game - if it's content, for the question of "how much", it counts.  Even if it's a Dragon+ article you hate and which is totally worthless to you, if it's 5e content, it counts.  Even if it's a mega adventure you will never ever think of using, if it's for 5e it still counts as 5e content. All 5e content counts for the question of "count the quantity of content".  Which is the only subject I've addressed.


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## MonsterEnvy (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> No one is saying you can not have jelly beans.  I am saying that ADnD had more jelly beans, is that more clear for you?




But it did not is the thing. It did not.


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## Shasarak (Jul 25, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> But it did not is the thing. It did not.




Somehow I can not see this conversation being very productive.


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## Henry (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> All 5e content counts for the question of "count the quantity of content".  Which is the only subject I've addressed.




That actually doesn't count the whole story, because you have to remember that in AD&D's earliest days (1977, 1978) that OD&D content counted as "AD&D" content as well - in fact Gary wrote the AD&D monster manual as compatible with OD&D in order to generate more money to complete the AD&D project. I distinctly recall him addressing that point here on one of his Q&A threads but can't remember where. When the PHB came along in '78, it had a background of the greyhawk supplement, three white books, blackmoor supplement, etc to draw on, even if not 100% compatible, so AD&D was a weird beast in the initial years, or it could not have existed financially. So saying there was "just the MM, the PH, and a half dozen 32-page magazines" is not the whole picture.

Was there more content in terms of words and page count in 5e than 1e? Absolutely! It doesn't mean it was only 2 hardcovers and same magazines, though. It also means that I don't want to see that scarcity of support again. If it weren't for EN5ider and (just like with AD&D) using stuff from previous editions, I wouldn't be running a game right now, because to me Tyranny and Princes were real letdowns after the three core books and Phandelver.


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## joshinminn (Jul 25, 2015)

If WOTC released jelly beans I would totally buy them but they'd surely not be as good as TSR's jelly beans. It's like those generic Easter jelly beans vs. Jelly Bellies.


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## S_Dalsgaard (Jul 25, 2015)

Yeah, but too many jelly beans causes bloat.


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Henry said:


> That actually doesn't count the whole story, because you have to remember that in AD&D's earliest days (1977, 1978) that OD&D content counted as "AD&D" content as well




Also irrelevant as I was responding to the question of how much content was published for AD&D 1e in the first year of AD&D 1e.  Content which came before that date might be compatible with it, but it doesn't count towards how much content was published in that year (it was from a different year).  All I was responding to was the quantity of content released in the first year of AD&D.  That's it.  If it came before or after that year, it doesn't count towards that year.  If it's content people liked or disliked, it still all counts towards that count.  It's a really simple question - there is no nuance here, there is no subtlety, it's just an objective counting question I was responding to.


> Was there more content in terms of words and page count in 5e than 1e? Absolutely!




That's it.  That's the beginning and end of that part of the debate.  Nobody asked what people liked or disliked or could use or anything like that.  The comment was "the AD&D 1e publishing schedule was not as sparse in the first year of AD&D 1e than the 5e publishing schedule so far".  I disagreed, and I was correct, regardless of whether people like it (a subjective question) or had access to materials from before that year that they could use with it.


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## Patrick McGill (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Also irrelevant as I was responding to the question of how much content was published for AD&D 1e in the first year of AD&D 1e.  Content which came before that date might be compatible with it, but it doesn't count towards how much content was published in that year (it was from a different year).  All I was responding to was the quantity of content released in the first year of AD&D.  That's it.  If it came before or after that year, it doesn't count towards that year.  If it's content people liked or disliked, it still all counts towards that count.  It's a really simple question - there is no nuance here, there is no subtlety, it's just an objective counting question I was responding to.
> 
> 
> That's it.  That's the beginning and end of that part of the debate.  Nobody asked what people liked or disliked or could use or anything like that.  The comment was "the AD&D 1e publishing schedule was not as sparse in the first year of AD&D 1e than the 5e publishing schedule so far".  I disagreed, and I was correct, regardless of whether people like it (a subjective question) or had access to materials from before that year that they could use with it.




If we're going to include compatible prior content, fifth edition for sure wins; there's a ton of non crunch content from the entire life of d&d, and I've found converting dcs on the fly and subbing in 5e monsters super easy for older adventures.


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## epithet (Jul 25, 2015)

This has to be the most useless iteration of the edition wars so far. Seriously, we're fighting over which edition cranked out more content, faster?

This serves only to distract from what should probably be the most important consideration: should the content release for D&D right now be sped up? Personally, I have the impression that there is a focus on quality control and polish with these releases that has been absent in some of the "classic" releases. The broad involvement of the player base in the testing of new mechanics inevitably causes development to take longer, but produces a better end result.

I also think there is already a great body of source material for us to draw on for campaign material. If you're just looking for a dungeon crawl, there are dozens of modules out there to choose from, pretty easily converted into the current edition. Third-party tools like Kobold Fight Club make it easy to generate 5th edition encounters if you don't want to crunch the numbers yourself. That frees the developers of new products to focus more on creating interesting stories and characters to add texture to their world.

My only real criticism of the product release schedule thus far is that it is all Forgotten Realms, all the time. It is easy enough to convert this stuff to a setting like Greyhawk, but the settings that are a little different, like Eberron and Athas, really need some base-level support to make them fully operational in the current edition, and I don't see that support forthcoming. The Eberron focussed UA article was a pretty good start, but by no means sufficient. Athas, because of how different it is, will require even more attention. My hope is that once the Mystic gets its brain all sorted out, Athas will get its turn. That looks like it might take a while, unfortunately.

I also believe that the suits at Hasbro need to pull their heads out of their corporate fundament and provide a reasonable license to 3rd party content creators. We've seen that companies like Necromancer/Frog God and Sasquatch can finagle the terminology covered by the legacy OGL to create material that is basically compatible with the 5th Edition, but it's asinine that they should have to tap-dance around certain terms and thread the needle of creating compatible content without overtly stating that it is compatible with D&D 5e. That kind of bovine manure just makes WotC seem out of touch and silly, perhaps unfairly as a result of a legal department more focussed on action figures and related accessories.


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## DM Howard (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> One issue of Dragon has more potential benefit then one super adventure.  It just appeals to a wider audience.  It would be like comparing a big apple to a basket of fruit.  And you get at least six of those in the first year - before the release of the Monster Manual.




Completely agree. I get that people really like the small amount of content that has come out so far, but what I don't get is their defense of WotC's paltry release schedule and almost complete lack of variety; except in what big bad you are going after in that period's epic adventure.  The licensing is great as the more avenues you take the brand the better, but that isn't a good excuse or substitute for products designed for the brand's core competency: the pen and paper RPG. I don't expect many people on here to agree with me as I have never amassed much xp (read: certification of agreement) on these forums, but the truth hurts.


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Dndungeoneer said:


> Completely agree. I get that people really like the small amount of content that has come out so far, but what I don't get is their defense of WotC's paltry release schedule and almost complete lack of variety; except in what big bad you are going after in that period's epic adventure.  The licensing is great as the more avenues you take the brand the better, but that isn't a good excuse or substitute for products designed for the brand's core competency: the pen and paper RPG. I don't expect many people on here to agree with me as I have never amassed much xp (read: certification of agreement) on these forums, but the truth hurts.




Subjective opinion /= truth.  A lot of people have gone into detail on why they prefer this pace of releases to an increased pace (the dangers of bloat), and why they prefer adventures to splat-book type additional crunch (the dangers of bloat).  You disagree, which is a position that has many supporters as well.  Are you asking for a better explanation on why people fear the dangers of bloat that come with a more rapid pace of releases or a more diverse type of releases?

Also - I don't know how others think about it, but the XP system doesn't really mean much from my perspective.  Your lack of XP isn't a sign that people don't like your opinions.  It could be any number of things, from name recognition to the time or days you post to the threads that interest you to anything. And the XP system doesn't allow negative XP.  I suspect if it did allow negative XP I'd have close to zero XP total, as I probably get about as much disagreement as agreement.  And if mod warnings gave big negative XP ,I'd probably be in the minus  I wouldn't worry about it.


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## Benji (Jul 25, 2015)

Shasarak said:


> The first 4 major releases of 5e just match what was already available originally (although not compiled into hardback) and the other 2 may or may not actually be useful depending if you use pre-designed adventures or not which historically is not the case.
> 
> So really we currently have a few UA articles and a couple of pages from the Dragon+




If we're only counting stuff people use, you'd have to throw out quite a lot of stuff from AD&D - Unless you visited boot hill on a regular basis. It's also a kind of odd argument becuase everyone uses different things.


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## DM Howard (Jul 25, 2015)

Mistwell said:


> Subjective opinion /= truth.  A lot of people have gone into detail on why they prefer this pace of releases to an increased pace (the dangers of bloat), and why they prefer adventures to splat-book type additional crunch (the dangers of bloat).  You disagree, which is a position that has many supporters as well.  Are you asking for a better explanation on why people fear the dangers of bloat that come with a more rapid pace or releases or a more diverse type of releases?




By that same measure I could say that the views of the "pro slow release" folks are subjective opinions and thus don't equate to the truth. But here it is: Are you truly telling me that WotC should focus on licensing, cut down their D&D staff to bare bones and release only 3 - 4 products a year? Really? I dislike bloat as much as the next guy, but if you want more tools to run games you are pretty SOL in this strategy. Rereleasing PDFs of old content is not a good resource. If that's true than to heck with it and we can tell WotC we don't need any new adventures either.



Mistwell said:


> Also - I don't know how others think about it, but the XP system doesn't really mean much from my perspective.  Your lack of XP isn't a sign that people don't like your opinions.  It could be any number of things, from name recognition to the time or days you post to the threads that interest you to anything. And the XP system doesn't allow negative XP.  I suspect if it did allow negative XP I'd have close to zero XP total, as I probably get about as much disagreement as agreement.  And if mod warnings gave big negative XP ,I'd probably be in the minus  I wouldn't worry about it.





Oh, I'm not really worrying about it, I was just trying to make a point. For the record Mistwell I really respect your opinion on this and I normally agree with you.


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## joshinminn (Jul 25, 2015)

Too much FR? Maybe. But I'm a middle aged guy with disposable income, so I'll buy it anyway and not complain.


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## Mistwell (Jul 25, 2015)

Dndungeoneer said:


> By that same measure I could say that the views of the "pro slow release" folks are subjective opinions and thus don't equate to the truth.




Yes, and you'd be right. The "pro-slow release" position is purely subjective opinion and not truth. It's just a preference. WOTC's interests are extending the life of the edition and increasing the amount of money they make over the life of the edition.  Nobody knows if this type and pace of release schedule will help those things, or hurt them, or result in the same as prior editions.  I don't think even WOTC knows.  It's all an educated guess.



> But here it is: Are you truly telling me that WotC should focus on licensing, cut down their D&D staff to bare bones and release only 3 - 4 products a year?




First, I don't think they cut the staff to bare bones. From what I can tell, they've increased the D&D staff from about 13, to about 30, in the past year.  That's not bare bones.  I don't know how many people WOTC had working on D&D in the first year of 3.0e, but my guess is it's roughly comparable to this.  Bottom line, it's not the bare bones people keep saying (I don't think it ever was in fact, I think we just were not aware of how many people were working in that department earlier).  

Second, so far they've been at about 6 major releases a year.  Yes, I am saying that's a fine pace, at least from my perspective.  I think it's sustainable long term, controls bloat, increases interest in each individual release far more than they would have had if they had a more rapid schedule, and overall is healthy for D&D.

As for licensing, I am not sure what you mean.  If you mean this "outsourcing vs. collaboration" debate, I don't view what they've been doing as outsourcing, and I think they are MORE involved with each release so far, directly, than they were with typical 3.5e releases (which had heavy subcontractor work on them with less supervision from WOTC).  But if instead you mean the video games and movies and such - yeah, that's also really healthy for the brand. It means Hasbro's expectations of revenue can be put on product lines that actually have the potential to meet and exceed those demands.  The TRPG portion of the company could never meet those expectations, but a movie or video game might.  And both increase wider brand recognition for the TRPG game, which is good for the game as well.  Already when I go into a game store and play in an Adventurer's League game I get tons of a new generation of players interested in playing, when they've never played a TRPG before.



> Really? I dislike bloat as much as the next guy, but if you want more tools to run games you are pretty SOL in this strategy




I do fine making my own. The game was intentionally made more flexible to accommodate this, and it works pretty well.  There is also a ton of third party support out there I can turn to if I need it.  There's no lack of tools available, and I never understood the need for an officialness stamp for private games. 



> Rereleasing PDFs of old content is not a good resource. If that's true than to heck with it and we can tell WotC we don't need any new adventures either.




Well that's true, we don't NEED new adventures either.  I am running Savage Tide for 5e right now.  But new adventures are fun too.



> Oh, I'm not really worrying about it, I was just trying to make a point. For the record Mistwell I really respect your opinion on this and I normally agree with you.




Cool, thanks.  Same here.


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## Winterthorn (Jul 25, 2015)

Colour me mildly surprised.  I'm looking forward to seeing the product at my FLGS   I'm not a huge fan of Forgotten Realms, but I can work with this...


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## Hutchimus Prime (Jul 25, 2015)

So how far out from the release date do these normally show up for preorder?


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## Osgood (Jul 25, 2015)

Wow, so much debate about a current release schedule vs. one more than a quarter century ago... I don't know how many other consumer bases would consider 1978 a fair point if reference for 2015. If a company produced 1978 levels of bell bottoms (lots) or computers (not many) today, I doubt many would think it's a smart move. 

Like it or not times change and expectations change, the main relative meter should be the market demand.


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## Yaarel (Jul 25, 2015)

The self-restrained output of 5e is intentional.

It seems to me, WotC is waiting for the ‘dust to settle’ on the core rules of 5e, so as many players as possible are happy with the 5e system. There are still some tweaks going on, including a possible revamping of the Ranger and so on.

Afterward, they will start producing more books that use the core rules.

A little bit of patience now, will help create a more enduring system for the future. A stitch in time saves nine, sotospeak.



WotC said something along similar lines with regard to indy publishers. They wanted players to thuroly understand the 5e system, how it behaves and by what means it balances, before creating other products for it.


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## BrockBallingdark (Jul 25, 2015)

Yaarel said:


> The self-restrained output of 5e is intentional.
> 
> It seems to me, WotC is waiting for the ‘dust to settle’ on the core rules of 5e, so as many players as possible are happy with the 5e system. There are still some tweaks going on, including a possible revamping of the Ranger and so on.
> 
> ...




I love this idea.  We really need to get to know the system, get the weeks going before getting other products for 5E.  Very smart though it drives some impatient people mad.  I'm glad I am not impatient or I would be going well... mad. lol


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## DM Howard (Jul 25, 2015)

Yaarel said:


> The self-restrained output of 5e is intentional.
> 
> It seems to me, WotC is waiting for the ‘dust to settle’ on the core rules of 5e, so as many players as possible are happy with the 5e system. There are still some tweaks going on, including a possible revamping of the Ranger and so on.
> 
> ...




I just don't think this is what's happening.  They've said in a recent D&D podcast (I believe the one before the most recent) how they are continuing forward with a slow release schedule for the foreseeable future.

Believe me I will be more than willing to eat my words, but I think that WotC has been scared into something close to inaction due to the reception and subsequent perceived failure of 4E.


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## darjr (Jul 25, 2015)

I really appreciate the slower schedule. And this new book made in partnership with green ronin? Consider it sold.


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## Stacie GmrGrl (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm excited for it. Must get.


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## HobbitFan (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm feeling cautiously optimistic about it.  
I'm frankly quite surprised by them releasing FR update material at all...so Yeah!

I'm just not sure about the format.  
A book largely meant for players (according to their own copy) is not in my mind the best way to present camapign setting material to DMs.  
It seems to me like this book is trying to do too much at once.  Be a character options book, a setting update and a video game tie-in.  
That seems like too many hats to wear, so to speak.


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## mouselim (Jul 26, 2015)

Well, I can't wait to read it but I hope that it has tons of details, lead-ins, backgrounds, factions, secrets, etc and not simply fluff stuff that is too superficial and next to useless...keeping all fingers and toes crossed.


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## Uchawi (Jul 26, 2015)

It will be interesting to see how closely the video game matches the 5E rule set. But for a setting, if you want to get me all nostalgic then release an updated Greyhawk. But you better release some updated mechanics for martial classes, like maneuvers.


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## epithet (Jul 26, 2015)

I've found it easy to combine 5e mechanics with Greyhawk material.

Dark Sun... not so much.


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## Doc_Klueless (Jul 26, 2015)

I'm really looking forward to this product because, as can be seen in a thread I started, I'm looking to get into the Forgotten Realms so I better use whatever WotC puts out by understanding the background/world behind the adventures a little better. I followed a couple of suggestions and picked up the 3e Campaign Setting, the 4e Campaign Setting and a couple of the Volo guides, but... *DAMN!* The information contained within them is so overwhelming. My old brain cannot retain it all! Or even a fraction of it it would seem.

What I and others like me who are just now picking up the Forgotten Realms (or D&D or both) is something that breaks out a smaller chunk of the FR with teasers about the rest of the world. Something that I can take in with smaller bites to process and assimilate. From the sound of it, this may be that product. Of course, it may not, but at least it gives me a solid place to start.... I think... I hope.


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## chibi graz'zt (Jul 26, 2015)

I think you hit the nail on the head. Wizards is being smart in releasing setting contents in a way that does not overwhelm the new comer. I think that by focusing on less known regions of the Realms, like the Sword Coast, lets new players manage the scope of a home base, were before Wizards would release an entire encyclopedia and this tended to overwhelm.  

Plus its in keeping with the very roots of D&D (Greyhaw) where TSR released only a slim module with a bit of setting contents and then only later released the Greyhaw box set. I see why Wizards is following a similar philosophy, and it makes sense.


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## Shasarak (Jul 27, 2015)

Less known regions like the Sword Coast?  

Sure if it is 1978.


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## CapnZapp (Jul 27, 2015)

Don't forget that unless Wotc keep publishing info about the sword coast, it won't stay "most well known".

That is: a lot of chatter here from old hands. You are not the customers Wotc is trying to win, you're already won no matter how much you grumble.

PS. You = we


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## DEFCON 1 (Jul 27, 2015)

Doc_Klueless said:


> I'm really looking forward to this product because, as can be seen in a thread I started, I'm looking to get into the Forgotten Realms so I better use whatever WotC puts out by understanding the background/world behind the adventures a little better. I followed a couple of suggestions and picked up the 3e Campaign Setting, the 4e Campaign Setting and a couple of the Volo guides, but... *DAMN!* The information contained within them is so overwhelming. My old brain cannot retain it all! Or even a fraction of it it would seem.
> 
> What I and others like me who are just now picking up the Forgotten Realms (or D&D or both) is something that breaks out a smaller chunk of the FR with teasers about the rest of the world. Something that I can take in with smaller bites to process and assimilate. From the sound of it, this may be that product. Of course, it may not, but at least it gives me a solid place to start.... I think... I hope.




Yeah, unfortunately picking up the entire Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting book is not always the best solution for people to start a campaign because of exactly what you said... too big an area with too much info of which 95% is pretty much useless for any one campaign.  What tends to be a better option for some folks would be to pick up one of the three "microsetting" books of the Realms that WotC produced for 3rd edition-- _Silver Marches, Unapproachable East,_ and _Shining South_... or the 4E "microsetting" book _Neverwinter_.  All four of those select a much smaller area of Faerun but go much deeper into the history and specifics of the land.  Many more NPCs, many more plot hooks, many more locations to visit.  Had you bought one of those books instead, you might not have felt as overwhelmed.

So as it stands now... the _Sword Coast Adventurer's Guide_ will drop into the same place of usefulness as the other four, and thus will probably be much closer to what you are looking for.  The one advantage of that one of course being that it'll be written from the "current" year of Realms canon, as opposed to the earler times for the 3E and 4E books.


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## Jeremy E Grenemyer (Jul 27, 2015)

From what I understand both Steve Kenson and Brian Cortijo worked on this product. 

I have played D&D using material written by Cortijo, but have never used anything written by Kenson.

So, has anybody purchased anything by Steve Kenson? If yes, did it help your game/was it fun, or no?


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## Bluenose (Jul 27, 2015)

I think Steve Kenson has mostly been involved with superhero RPGs, Silver Age Sentinels, M&M, and the Freedom City setting; none of whihc I can help with. But, his name is also on some of my Shadowrun books, both fiction and sourcebooks. In my opinion only, the fiction was good for a game-line tie in, especially Born to Run and it's sequels; some of the setting material was very fine, Super Tuesday! and Brain Scan, but the Tir Na nOg chapter in Shadows of Europe was not a good one.


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## garnuk (Jul 27, 2015)

Just want to throw in my obviously minority opinion.

My group is just starting to get into Rise of Tiamat, and we started with DND next modules from dndclassics.com

This new release interests me but I'm not going to buy it for a long time, if I ever do buy it.  I feel that WoTC is trying to sell me too many books at this point, too quickly.

Not only is there tons of content, but the DMG even gave us enough info to build our home homebrew class conversion from the WFRPG careers.  Hello ratcatcher and pharmacist.  (Due to DMG guidelines the classses are nicely balanced from what we can tell in play)

It's certainly going to be a while till I'm ready to purchase more books for any reason other than making my shelf look pretty.


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## Nellisir (Jul 27, 2015)

Bluenose said:


> I think Steve Kenson has mostly been involved with superhero RPGs, Silver Age Sentinels, M&M, and the Freedom City setting; none of whihc I can help with. But, his name is also on some of my Shadowrun books, both fiction and sourcebooks. In my opinion only, the fiction was good for a game-line tie in, especially Born to Run and it's sequels; some of the setting material was very fine, Super Tuesday! and Brain Scan, but the Tir Na nOg chapter in Shadows of Europe was not a good one.




http://stevekenson.com/rpg-bibliography/


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## Patrick McGill (Jul 27, 2015)

garnuk said:


> Just want to throw in my obviously minority opinion.
> 
> My group is just starting to get into Rise of Tiamat, and we started with DND next modules from dndclassics.com
> 
> ...




Between opinions like these, and those who argue that wizards has released next to nothing, I feel very deeply for their marketing department.


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## Shasarak (Jul 27, 2015)

Patrick McGill said:


> Between opinions like these, and those who argue that wizards has released next to nothing, I feel very deeply for their marketing department.




The Marketing department just sells what they produce.  That is their job, right?

"Here is the best thing produced in 2015 since the last best thing we produced in 2015! Buy it now!"


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## JeffB (Jul 27, 2015)

So did we get an authors list yet?


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## Dargrimm (Jul 27, 2015)

Really looking forward to the previews!


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## joshinminn (Jul 28, 2015)

Patrick McGill said:


> Between opinions like these, and those who argue that wizards has released next to nothing, I feel very deeply for their marketing department.



For real.


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## Jeremy E Grenemyer (Jul 29, 2015)

JeffB said:


> So did we get an authors list yet?



Not that I have seen. 

I have heard Joseph Carriker, Brian Cortijo and Steve Kenson all did work on the book.


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## GobiWon (Jul 29, 2015)

Doc_Klueless said:


> What I and others like me who are just now picking up the Forgotten Realms (or D&D or both) is something that breaks out a smaller chunk of the FR with teasers about the rest of the world. Something that I can take in with smaller bites to process and assimilate. From the sound of it, this may be that product.




While I would like to see something more comprehensive, I think WotC is wise to produce something of this scope. It does seem targeted at consumers who may be overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of the Realms. I just hope Greenwood is involved and he gives us some glimpses into the wider Realms in the coming months through some official channel.


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## Irennan (Jul 29, 2015)

GobiWon said:


> While I would like to see something more comprehensive, I think WotC is wise to produce something of this scope. It does seem targeted at consumers who may be overwhelmed by the sheer magnitude of the Realms. I just hope Greenwood is involved and he gives us some glimpses into the wider Realms in the coming months through some official channel.




Ed wasn't directly involved in the book. He said that he unofficially consulted for it. Anyway, what he says *is* official, even if delivered through a forum reply. His answers to the question that people ask over Candlekeep are official, for example. Nonetheless I agree with you that it would be cool to have a series of articles by him on the wider Realms, or anything delivered through official channels.


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## JeffB (Jul 29, 2015)

Irennan said:


> Ed wasn't directly involved in the book. He said that he unofficially consulted ...
> ...





disappointing...


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## MonsterEnvy (Jul 29, 2015)

JeffB said:


> disappointing...




Here is his full tweet.

https://twitter.com/TheEdVerse/status/624310520229707776

He seems to have faith.


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## Irennan (Jul 29, 2015)

Yes, Ed being confident is encouraging, but it feels really off to not have him involved with the inaugural 5e FR book, which is also supposed to work as a sort of CS.


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## EthanSental (Jul 31, 2015)

It's up on Amazon now for pre-order, 34.95 but will drop I'm sure since all the other 5e books have done the same.


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## dndthrowaway1 (Oct 20, 2015)

Has anyone confirmed early-release timing for this yet at network stores?

oops, apologies, I see it's October 23, per here: http://wpn.wizards.com/en/products/sword-coast-adventurers-guide


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## CapnZapp (Oct 20, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> He seems to have faith.



On the other hand, have he ever publicly doubted or criticized anything WotC have ever done?


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## MonsterEnvy (Oct 20, 2015)

CapnZapp said:


> On the other hand, have he ever publicly doubted or criticized anything WotC have ever done?




Yes.


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## Irennan (Oct 20, 2015)

MonsterEnvy said:


> Yes.




It is weird to read that. When has Ed publicly criticized WotC?


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## Valus (Oct 20, 2015)

Irennan said:


> It is weird to read that. When has Ed publicly criticized WotC?




When the Spellplague happened and the 4th ed timeline was jumped forward 100+ years, Ed and Bob Salvatore were both critical.   Neither of them were super public about it, but if you went to Gen Con seminars, etc. they were pretty clear.  Especially Bob.

I don't have time to find them right now, but if you do some Google searching, you should be able to find interviews where they recount their reactions to the news.  They immediately believed it to be a horrible decision, and started planning how to fix it when WotC came to its senses.


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## Mirtek (Oct 20, 2015)

Valus said:


> When the Spellplague happened and the 4th ed timeline was jumped forward 100+ years, Ed and Bob Salvatore were both critical.   Neither of them were super public about it, but if you went to Gen Con seminars, etc. they were pretty clear.  Especially Bob.
> 
> I don't have time to find them right now, but if you do some Google searching, you should be able to find interviews where they recount their reactions to the news.  They immediately believed it to be a horrible decision, and started planning how to fix it when WotC came to its senses.



These are all interviews after 4e was done, the error admited and the Sundering was green-lit to fix it. While 4e was the current thing they swallowed their dislike and went along, never saying anything bad about it. It's just like one of the Dragonlance creators was hyping the horrible Dragonlance animated movie in Dragon Mag just shortly before it's release. 

WotC signs their checks, and thus they sind the song WotC hands the the notes for


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## darjr (Oct 20, 2015)

Uh no. I think in public Bob wasn't pleased. I'll see if I can dig it up but it was clear to me then he wasn't happy.


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## darjr (Oct 20, 2015)

Even Ed would say things about it not really being his world anymore.


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## Shasarak (Oct 20, 2015)

Valus said:


> When the Spellplague happened and the 4th ed timeline was jumped forward 100+ years, Ed and Bob Salvatore were both critical.   Neither of them were super public about it, but if you went to Gen Con seminars, etc. they were pretty clear.  Especially Bob.
> 
> I don't have time to find them right now, but if you do some Google searching, you should be able to find interviews where they recount their reactions to the news.  They immediately believed it to be a horrible decision, and started planning how to fix it when WotC came to its senses.




You can not blame them for that because it actually was a horrible decision.


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## Valus (Oct 20, 2015)

Mirtek said:


> These are all interviews after 4e was done, the error admited and the Sundering was green-lit to fix it. While 4e was the current thing they swallowed their dislike and went along, never saying anything bad about it. It's just like one of the Dragonlance creators was hyping the horrible Dragonlance animated movie in Dragon Mag just shortly before it's release.
> 
> WotC signs their checks, and thus they sind the song WotC hands the the notes for





From Ed in 2007:

"This is indeed the Big Risk in all of this, the “roll of the dice” *that I wish someone had never decided to make* (because I personally value the ongoing development of a shared and unbroken imaginary Grand History of a fictional fantasy setting as something magnificent in itself, an achievement we should all continue to contribute to).
Yet *it’s happening regardless of my personal wants*, and I choose to be onboard trying to paddle and steer, rather than left behind swimming in the water, calling out that perhaps we should have set a different course."

"None of which means my arguments should be seen as quelling, denying, or belittling the *personal anger and upset *longtime Realms fans are feeling over this. *Believe me, I know how you feel.* :}"

"I understand and sympathize with all of your misgivings and raw emotions. I went through the same thing at a secret summit meeting at GenCon some years ago; believe me, heavy-hitter novelists and game designers who love the Realms have argued about this “change” over and over heatedly."

http://forum.candlekeep.com/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=9905

Certainly, Ed and Bob decided to try to make the best of a bad situation, and worked within the system, rather than try to boycott.  However, their misgivings were clear publicly very early on, even if they became less diplomatic in later years as it was clear that WotC was seeing the error in their ways.

I am not sure when you are referring to 4e being "done", but both of them were pretty clearly unhappy with it prior to the 5e playtest, even if they weren't full on bashing 4e realms.


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## Irennan (Oct 20, 2015)

Thank you for the quote, [MENTION=6777490]Valus[/MENTION]


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## Tyranthraxus (Oct 21, 2015)

Looks like some places have jumped the gun again and released it for sale. I was just speaking to a guy on Facebook who was giving me a good chunk of info on it.


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## UnadvisedGoose445 (Oct 21, 2015)

Tyranthraxus said:


> Looks like some places have jumped the gun again and released it for sale. I was just speaking to a guy on Facebook who was giving me a good chunk of info on it.




Ahem, any way I could scavenge a bit of that information myself?


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## MonsterEnvy (Oct 21, 2015)

Same case.


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## Irennan (Oct 21, 2015)

Tyranthraxus said:


> Looks like some places have jumped the gun again and released it for sale. I was just speaking to a guy on Facebook who was giving me a good chunk of info on it.




If you feel like sharing, are there any meaningful updates on deities and places, lore-wise? What format did they use for their writeups on the various regions and gods (do gods info include their current state, relationships, divine realm and so on...)?


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## DeathMutant (Oct 21, 2015)

I would have expected "Premier" stores to be selling it on October 20th -- 14 days prior to the official release on November 3rd. Why do you think they "jumped the gun?"


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## Irennan (Oct 21, 2015)

It's supposed to release on the 23rd in networked stores.


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## Morrus (Oct 21, 2015)

DeathMutant said:


> I would have expected "Premier" stores to be selling it on October 20th -- 14 days prior to the official release on November 3rd. Why do you think they "jumped the gun?"




It's always 11 days, not 14 days. A couple of days yet.


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## Mirtek (Oct 21, 2015)

Valus said:


> From Ed in 2007:
> 
> "This is indeed the Big Risk in all of this, the “roll of the dice” *that I wish someone had never decided to make* (because I personally value the ongoing development of a shared and unbroken imaginary Grand History of a fictional fantasy setting as something magnificent in itself, an achievement we should all continue to contribute to).
> Yet *it’s happening regardless of my personal wants*, and I choose to be onboard trying to paddle and steer, rather than left behind swimming in the water, calling out that perhaps we should have set a different course."
> ...



Note that he doesn't say he's feeling "personal anger and upset" but merely that he doesn't say others who may feel it are fine to do so. He says the spellplague wasn't his choice, but that he'll stay onboard.

This is vastly different to inverviews after 4e was done and 5e and the Sundering already in the pipeline. The interviews they gave then were much different, talking about how Ed was almost in tears after leaving the meeting where WotC announced the Spellplague and how they were all the time plotting to undo it in the long run. They didn't ever say anything that negative until after 4e was written off by WotC


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## Valus (Oct 21, 2015)

Mirtek said:


> Note that he doesn't say he's feeling "personal anger and upset" but merely that he doesn't say others who may feel it are fine to do so. He says the spellplague wasn't his choice, but that he'll stay onboard.
> 
> This is vastly different to inverviews after 4e was done and 5e and the Sundering already in the pipeline. The interviews they gave then were much different, talking about how Ed was almost in tears after leaving the meeting where WotC announced the Spellplague and how they were all the time plotting to undo it in the long run. They didn't ever say anything that negative until after 4e was written off by WotC





I agree that they were much more directly critical after WotC decided it was a mistake, but their displeasure was there beforehand if you read between the lines a bit.  In the above quote, the "Believe me, I know how you feel. :}" line tells me he also felt those things.

You're right that they made the decision to stay onboard with 4e and ride out the storm, which meant they had to be guarded, but they also had an interest in maintaining credibility with the longtime fans who knew them well enough to guess their thoughts, and whom they were hoping would wait it out with them.  Hence statements like my previous post and the grimaces and *wink wink* hints of displeasure in public, if more obscure, places like the Candlekeep forums and Gen Con seminars.  My DM and I have been going to Gen Con on and off since its first year in Indy, and we've personally seen Ed and Bob respond to this situation even before the writing was on the wall for 4e.  They did their duty as WotC affiliated authors by trying to make the best of it, but it was clear that they weren't pleased by the scope of the changes and especially the 100 year jump.


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## Aviose (Oct 28, 2015)

KarinsDad said:


> And so the "bigger, better, badder" race begins.




The fact that they have waited this long to release ANY new content of this nature (save a couple of races) says a lot about this edition and their desire to avoid excessive bloat. I take it as a positive.


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## psychophipps (Oct 29, 2015)

Bladesingers be Ba-roken!


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