# Werewolf Druid building advice



## Theroc (Aug 11, 2009)

Okay, this time the help I need is a bit more specific, so hopefully it'll garner more advice, though Danny's advice was good.

I've decided to play a Druid for my Werewolf character in the upcoming game, but want advice as to how to set them up.

Level 1 start, basic starting wealth +50 if a human, +25 if anything else

Currently, the stats I can play with are: Roll Lookup

I was thinking of setting them up as
Str: 14
Dex:17
Con: 15
Int: 14
Wis: 17
Cha: 14

But wasn't exactly certain.  I was thinking of going human, and choosing a wolf as his animal companion and stick to a very wolf-ish theme, since he *IS* a werewolf. (Natural werewolf who hasn't tapped into it yet.)

But I wasn't sure what to do for feats and spells to look into mostly, as I've never played a druid before at all.  A note: While I do plan to help with the support role, I'd love it if I could spec this character out to be able to 'go wild' and engage in melee as well(not as the main meat shield or damage dealer though), like one would expect from a lycan.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 11, 2009)

Got a link to the prior thread?  That will help avoid duplicating advice.

At any rate, my first instinct is to play a Human as the base race.  You get the bonus Feat, of course, but it also plays into the great mass of lycanthrope legend and myth- you almost never hear about elves or other non-human races of fantasy being were-anything except in gaming.

Without knowing what is available in your campaign, Elf or Orc/Half-Orc would be my next choices.  The former's connection to nature, magic, and the heightened senses would be interesting. The Orc/Half-Orc option keeps the animistic side of things intact.

The first feats that spring to mind are Improved Natural Attack and XPH: Bladed Gauntlet.  That way, you're extra wolfy.

Taking the Feral template keeps the werewolf connection even stronger when not in altered form, and would give you a natural weapon even in non-shapechanged form...and would be covered by the same INA: Claws.


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## Theroc (Aug 11, 2009)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Got a link to the prior thread?  That will help avoid duplicating advice.
> 
> At any rate, my first instinct is to play a Human as the base race.  You get the bonus Feat, of course, but it also plays into the great mass of lycanthrope legend and myth- you almost never hear about elves or other non-human races of fantasy being were-anything except in gaming.
> 
> ...




http://www.enworld.org/forum/d-d-3rd-edition-rules/259794-advice-werewolf-pc.html

There's the link.

Starting level is 1, so templates and such aren't really doable.

I completely forgot to mention sources.  The DM only has access to the PHB itself, but will review other material if asked and given the specifics.

As for the race, Human or Half-Orc was my first instinct too, but I'd rather not lose 2 cha and 2 int for 2 str and darkvision, which were the main tradeoffs IMO.  Elven Low Light Vision is redundant, I think, as Werewolves get that naturally.

Anyways, INA was definitely a given for me, and another thing I was considering was getting to Improved Trip.  Hitting with my bite attack (depending on the source)in hybrid or wolven forms would allow a free trip attack, and then if the trip hit, I'd be allowed another bite.  Along with my animal companion for a flanking buddy(if the parties rogue or ranger are elsewhere), should be really nasty for any humanoids I come across.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Aug 12, 2009)

I would swap the con and dex scores.  Nice rolls.

I'd recommend being an afflicted lycanthrope if possible (instead of natural) and buying ranks in the skill to control your form, rather than lose another precious CL to level adjustment.


The ECL of a werewolf (or any ECL) makes it a bad fit for a druid to begin with.  You mentioned a wolf theme.  Have you seen the Totem Druid variant?  It's in dragon mag, but also crystalkeep's database, page 35 here: http://www.crystalkeep.com/d20/rules/DnD3.5Index-Classes-Base.pdf

If you could try to swing some sort of "deal" with your DM to tie in your lycanthrope shape changing ability to your totem shape, then be a wolf totem druid.  By a deal, I mean something reasonable like stacking your wolf HD (or maybe even your full werewolf ECL) towards your effective druid level for totem shaping into a wolf / dire wolf, and the related benefits at certain levels.  Since you'd be basically getting nothing from your totem shape (can already switch to wolf form whenever you like anyway), that seems fair to me.  I'd think you could even merge the two abilities, and thus get all the totem shape benefits like being able to speak even in hybrid form.  Certainly, it would help make an argument for allowing natural spell to benefit you while shape changed due to lycanthropy.

In case it's not clear what exactly you're giving up in being a wolf totem druid: access to any wildshape forms or animal companions that aren't wolves.  Including elementals and plants.  I really can't even describe how massive a loss that is.  But if your DM is cool and works some kind of arrangement out with you, a werewolf wolf totem druid could be really cool.


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## Theroc (Aug 12, 2009)

Hrm... while the Totem Druid would fit my theme greatly, like you said, it's a HUGE hit, and adding the 2 HD a Werewolf gets really doesn't sound like a major boon when it comes to losing all other wildshapes...

Also, Stream, the Dex/Con was the main thing I was debating, since I wasn't sure whether I'd be better off trying to avoid getting hit, or trying to be able to take more hits.  As for being afflicted over Natural, since I'm using Wizards Savage Progressions for the Lycanthropy, I can stop at +2 LA if I want to.  I just figured the 10/silver DR would be nice for a slightly squisher melee combatant... though I'm not sure how well this character will hold up in melee anyway.

And I did say a very wolf-oriented theme, but I'd rather avoid kicking my effectiveness too hard in the pants.  I think the ECL and such from Lycanthropy is a pretty decent hit in and of itself, but I was thinking of possibly looking into the Warshaper PrC in the future, or the Geomancer(depending where the campaign takes us)... In any case, I'm hoping to focus mostly on brief support before entering the fray, only backing off to provide more support if it's necessary.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 15, 2009)

> Starting level is 1, so templates and such aren't really doable.




Well, Feral is notorious as being one of the most underpriced templates out there- only +1.  Given all the werewolfery adjustments you'll be making, I don't see it being much of a hit.



> the Dex/Con was the main thing I was debating, since I wasn't sure whether I'd be better off trying to avoid getting hit, or trying to be able to take more hits.




Personally- and I admit that I'm probably in the minority here- I almost always prioritize Dex over Con unless I'm building a heavily armored tank for whom Dex is not optimal.

Con is undeniably nice for the HP, but HP are an _ablative_ resource, meaning that with each successful hit, the benefit they grant is diminished.  As you get hit, they disappear.  However, you shouldn't overlook the value of making Fort saves and so forth.

Dex, OTOH, does multiple duty.  It gives you bonuses to your initiative (hitting first is an advantage that helps drops foes quickly) and your ranged attack rolls (hitting at range is an advantage that helps drop foes quickly), and it adds to your AC.  Unlike HP, AC is predominantly a _non-ablative_- unless someone directly affects your armor or tangles you or whatever, your AC remains unchanged throughout a given encounter.  IOW, No matter how many times you're hit, your AC does not diminish.  You're always getting its full benefit.


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## Theroc (Aug 15, 2009)

Well, Danny... how can I apply a template which has a Level Adjustment if the starting level of 1?

Is that template acquired?

Also, I don't have access to Savage Species, and Crystalkeep does not have it, so I don't know what all it does(though, I must say I am curious, since I keep hearing about it).  Otherwise I'd look into it.  The reason Werewolf was approved was I will be using the werewolf class template from Wizard's Savage Progressions, so at level 1 I'm just a druid, level 2 or so is where the werewolf stuff may be coming into play.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 15, 2009)

> Well, Danny... how can I apply a template which has a Level Adjustment if the starting level of 1?
> 
> Is that template acquired?




Not at all being snarky, but all that is up to you and your DM to decide- whether it could be acquired, what it would require to be Feral at 1st level.

The reason I bring it up at all is that I really have no idea as to how you can be a Werewolf at level 1 either (barring HRs)- I don't have "Wizard's Savage Progressions."

Generally speaking, Feral kind of makes you into a quasi-"Dire" creature (not quite the real thing- there _is_ also a Dire template, after all).  You're bigger, nastier, more aggressive- and your PC gains or improves natural weapons.  And so forth.


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> The reason I bring it up at all is that I really have no idea as to how you can be a Werewolf at level 1 either (barring HRs)- I don't have "Wizard's Savage Progressions."




I linked you to Savage Progressions: Ghost and Werewolf Template Classes
that webpage in my first thread, to SHOW you what I was referring to.  I'm assuming how it will work is, my character was born with this in his blood, and it's only recently(during the course of adventuring) manifesting itself.  For the feral template, I'm leery of using any template which I can't actually get the full entry on, just because I need to be able to present it to my DM and all.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 16, 2009)

OK, I've seen it now.

You do realize that these template classes work just like regular PC classes (and are a modification of the _Savage Species_ monster levels, similar to the AU/AE racial levels) or PrCls, right?

Savage Progressions: Gaining a Template Midcampaign

IOW, at 1st level, you could be a Werewolf _OR_ a Druid, but not a Werewolf Druid.

And, with that in mind, you could easily consider the Feral template to be a single level template class.


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## Jack Simth (Aug 16, 2009)

From a power perspective, as a Druid, you don't want the LA or RHD.  Play a regular Druid, and use a Wolf form a lot.  Play a shapeshift variant Druid and flavor the forms as a Wolfish.  But from a power perspective, when playing a Full Caster, you don't want LA or RHD (unless they're free - if you're Gestalt, and the LA and RHD are opposite regular class levels, that can work very well).  

If power isn't a priority, or if there's a campaign requirement for it, then the question becomes: How exactly do you want to play it?  Primary Divine Caster is out due to the LA and RHD, so you're basically looking at playing a front-line fighter - who are also usually gimped due to LA (but RHD don't hurt them so much).


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> OK, I've seen it now.
> 
> You do realize that these template classes work just like regular PC classes (and are a modification of the _Savage Species_ monster levels, similar to the AU/AE racial levels) or PrCls, right?
> 
> ...





How could I be a Werewolf at first level, Danny?  I need an HD, don't I?  Or did I miss something in the articles.  As I understood it, You had to take the first level of werewolf, which simply applies a Level Adjustment and bonuses, no HD.  And without HD, my character is not alive.

And yeah, Jack, I realized it would would weaken me, but I don't think I understand what exactly I am doing, so I may need to either switch class (I was really hoping to play a lycanthrope) or drop the lycanthropy.  The flavor of the idea is great, but I had been afraid the combination would end up too weak in practice, due to the LA.

I'll likely need to talk to my DM/group about changing things slightly...


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 16, 2009)

Theroc said:


> How could I be a Werewolf at first level, Danny?




That was _my_ question- the PC's initial level & eventual progression wasn't exactly clear.  (And looking back at the Werewolf "class," you're right that it doesn't provide a HD, so ignore what I said about being a 1st level WW.)

Now that we're all on the same page...

All that Savage Progressions writers did was take extant templates and extrapolate them into "class" levels.  Thus, with a little work (and using their previous work as a guideline), you could take _any_ template you like and make it into a class...like I suggested with Feral.

And that's good news for you, especially if you think (further) outside the box on your PC's design.  Depending on how you envision your PC, of course.

There are all kinds of nifty templates out there for animals.  "Legendary," "Dire," "Celestial," "Infernal"...even "Multiheaded" animal templates exist, and each of them could add a bit of spice & bite to your PC's Lycan or animal form.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Aug 16, 2009)

Jack Simth said:


> From a power perspective, as a Druid, you don't want the LA or RHD.  Play a regular Druid, and use a Wolf form a lot.  Play a shapeshift variant Druid and flavor the forms as a Wolfish.  But from a power perspective, when playing a Full Caster, you don't want LA or RHD (unless they're free - if you're Gestalt, and the LA and RHD are opposite regular class levels, that can work very well).
> 
> If power isn't a priority, or if there's a campaign requirement for it, then the question becomes: How exactly do you want to play it?  Primary Divine Caster is out due to the LA and RHD, so you're basically looking at playing a front-line fighter - who are also usually gimped due to LA (but RHD don't hurt them so much).




I agree with this.  Spellcasters don't tend to get really good until CL 5-6+, so with your ECL 4-5, you won't be much of a caster until level 10 or so, and that's assuming the whole party is werewolves and the DM is adjusting enemies (like their SR) accordingly.  It's a shame the totem druid idea didn't work out, I really liked that idea.

So, unless the campaign requires werewolf, play a humanoid with wolf totem druid, shifter variant, etc...something to be werewolf-like, without losing caster levels.
If you do have to be a werewolf, consider the Illumian race from races of destiny.  One of their power sigils (krau, I think) gives +1 CL, and +2 CL once you reach 2nd HD.  The CL increase can't go beyond your character level and won't give you access to a new spell level or anything, but it helps when you're losing at least 4 CL to HD and LA.  Practiced Spellcaster unfortunately only adds up to HD, so your +2 LA would not be covered by that feat.  The illumian racial feature *would* cover those 2 LA, though.  You could take both and have a full CL (but still 4 behind for your actual spells known / per day / highest spell level).  But I never really liked spending a feat on practiced spellcaster for less than 3 or 4 missing caster levels of hit dice.  YMMV.


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

~shrug~  The idea I'd had for him was very much a "Survival of the Fittest" pack mentality.

I would definitely have gone with the totem variant, except it would have weakened the build even FURTHER had I gotten to that level.

For more info, my character thus far would be the ONLY werewolf.  Everyone else is playing a standard human in the campaign... so I've no idea how the DM would treat that.

I could possibly go with Shifter instead of human, but I disliked the temporary duration of shifting as opposed to the 'at will for as long as you like' duration of a lycanthropic change.  Also, if I did go with Shifter, if I wanted Shifter feats to increase the shift duration, I'd need to run each feat past the DM, which I understand, but it'd be easier if I could avoid it.

I'd rather try to avoid adding too many additional sources, as I'd rather not bombard the DM when he actually only has access to the Player's Handbook.

I do appreciate the help, and apologies if I seem less than helpful.  I just like the idea of lycanthropy and the idea of a Druid seemed fitting with the wolfpack idea, but obviously mechanically it doesn't jive very well.  And the other wolven things don't allow a partial form.

Danny, I would probably just go with a Feral Druid(if the feral could make him LOOK wolven, except I don't have access to the template, so I couldn't use it.)


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## StreamOfTheSky (Aug 16, 2009)

Minor addition: Spell Compendium spells _Aspect of the Wolf_ and...I'm pretty sure there's a "Bite of the..." spell for werewolf.  They have were tiger, were rat, and werebear, I know...

But yeah, that's another source out of core.  It's nice ot not want to overwhelm the DM with toom any sources, but if you're starting at level 1 and need to thus use a savage progression just to make a werewolf work in the first place, I don't see why a few specfic spells or a racial stat block will contribute much more to the problem.  It's not like he has to read and allow the entire book to allow specific pieces of it.  Just show him Illumian, for example, and ask if it's ok.  Granted, Illumian is kinda complex on its own.    Maybe just show him the two sigils you'd want and lay out exactly what racial benefits you'd be getting with them (along with the other ones that come for any illumian).  Ditto for wolf-y spells and wolf totem, and whatever else if you go the "I can't believe it's not werewolf!" route.


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

StreamOfTheSky said:


> Minor addition: Spell Compendium spells _Aspect of the Wolf_ and...I'm pretty sure there's a "Bite of the..." spell for werewolf.  They have were tiger, were rat, and werebear, I know...
> 
> But yeah, that's another source out of core.  It's nice ot not want to overwhelm the DM with toom any sources, but if you're starting at level 1 and need to thus use a savage progression just to make a werewolf work in the first place, I don't see why a few specfic spells or a racial stat block will contribute much more to the problem.  It's not like he has to read and allow the entire book to allow specific pieces of it.  Just show him Illumian, for example, and ask if it's ok.  Granted, Illumian is kinda complex on its own.    Maybe just show him the two sigils you'd want and lay out exactly what racial benefits you'd be getting with them (along with the other ones that come for any illumian).  Ditto for wolf-y spells and wolf totem, and whatever else if you go the "I can't believe it's not werewolf!" route.




I have Spell Compendium, but not Races of Destiny.  If you're wondering what sources I myself can access, check my sblock.  I can access the "anytime" ones.  The sometimes are a no atm.


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## Jack Simth (Aug 16, 2009)

Theroc said:


> I could possibly go with Shifter instead of human, but I disliked the temporary duration of shifting as opposed to the 'at will for as long as you like' duration of a lycanthropic change.  Also, if I did go with Shifter, if I wanted Shifter feats to increase the shift duration, I'd need to run each feat past the DM, which I understand, but it'd be easier if I could avoid it.



Not quite what I meant - the Shapeshift Druid Alternate Class Feature in the PHB II, pages 39-41.  At-will shifting, as a Swift action, gives you enhancement bonuses to stats, natural weapons, movement modes, and removes your equipment and casting while active... but it's at-will, and it's explicitly designed to be re-flavored.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 16, 2009)

Theroc said:


> I could possibly go with Shifter instead of human, but I disliked the temporary duration of shifting as opposed to the 'at will for as long as you like' duration of a lycanthropic change.  Also, if I did go with Shifter, if I wanted Shifter feats to increase the shift duration, I'd need to run each feat past the DM, which I understand, but it'd be easier if I could avoid it




Don't discard the Shifter idea too quickly.  Most of a Lycan's benefit comes in combat...which is precisely how long most of a Shifter's benefits last.

You might take a longshot and scan the Monster Manuals to see if there are any fuzzy races with minimal LA that might suit your purposes.

You could also take levels in one of the Psionic classes (probably PsyWar) and choose things like the "Claws of the Beast", "Bite of the Wolf," "Body Adjustment," "Psychofeedback" etc., and simply _claiming_ that your PC has a new form of Lycanthropy.

I've looked at your list of available sources...some of the ones I wish you had access to simply aren't there.

There are all kinds of fuzzy races in sources like _Savage Species_ (the Anthros, in particular), _Oriental Adventures_ has the Hengeyokai, DCv1 has a doglike race of humanoids, Magic of Incarnum has the Totemist.  The 3PP AU/AE has both a canid race (the hyena-like Sibbecai) and a very nice Totemic Barbarian (in some ways, better than the Unearthed Arcana version). All obviously absent from your list.

Another longshot build would be Druid/Full Arcane Caster of your choice/Geomancer, taking all of the "wolfy" Drift options.  While not truly a Lycan, he could explain that the magic he uses is slowly bringing forth the spirit of his totem animal...or that of an ancestor who had been a Lycan.



> Danny, I would probably just go with a Feral Druid(if the feral could make him LOOK wolven, except I don't have access to the template, so I couldn't use it.)




No biggie- this is brainstorming!  We throw out all the options we can come up with, then sort for viability and fitness for the character concept.


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

Shapeshift variant might work, though it doesn't sound like it's as useful as the typical wildshape(though able to be used more frequently).

As far as magic of Incarnum... if I had it, I WOULD be playing a Totemist.  I've wanted to play one since I saw Wizard's Snippet on their webpage.  Unfortunately, the only access I can get to it is some strange streaming thing on the internet which... doesn't strike me as entirely ethical/legal to use.

As for Shifters, the other difficulty with it is the limited times you can change.  Aside from that, they seemed pretty cool. (though I hate losing int, that always hurts)

As for Psionics, some of them seem interesting, but I've never fully gotten into them... one I find most interesting is the one that doesn't actually USE powers... Mindblade or something like that.  Soulknife?

Geomancer might work, if the DM approves it.  I'll have to see if I can get ahold of him a bit more to discuss the character.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 16, 2009)

> As for Shifters, the other difficulty with it is the limited times you can change. Aside from that, they seemed pretty cool. (though I hate losing int, that always hurts)




Mechanically speaking, a Shifter Druid/Arcane caster/Geomancer might never miss that Int, depending upon which arcane casting class you pick.


> As for Psionics, some of them seem interesting, but I've never fully gotten into them... one I find most interesting is the one that doesn't actually USE powers... Mindblade or something like that. Soulknife?



The Soulknife is a favorite of mine as well.  I love it even though some of its abilities are a little clunky, RAW, so its often the beneficiary of a lot of HRing.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 16, 2009)

Here is a suggestion that is both inside and outside of the box, and is entirely within the limitations of your list of sourcebooks.  And it really has an old-school, legendary, mythological feel to it.

Ask to play PC whose class is Druid and whose race is "Awakened Wolf."

Awaken :: d20srd.org

IOW, your PC is a wolf who has been subject to the Druidic spell, Awaken, and for whatever reason, are no longer in that caster's direct service.

Though this wolf is now on his own, he has picked up the study of the Druidic way, in honor of the one who opened his mind to an entirely new way of looking at things.

Now, since your type would be "Magical Beast" you could not be anyone's animal companion, etc., but that doesn't mean you couldn't _pose _as one.  Your own animal companion could even be a packmate (your older brother or sister?), or perhaps another animal like one of those oddball pairings we see in so many internet photos.

"Why does that Owl always perch on that Wolf, Mister?" they'd ask of your fellow PCs.

As you'd level, eventually you might gain the ability to adopt a more humanoid form...in a sense, you won't be a werewolf, you'd be a wolfwere.


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## Theroc (Aug 16, 2009)

The only problem I see there is I'd have no spellcasting(no hands), so I could only use spells that had no somatic component.

That, and the campaign being wary of non-humans(harder to hide being a wolf than being a werewolf), and the setup being the party was hired as a caravan guard.  Though, I COULD setup some interplay between my character and the party ranger... make people think he has TWO companions... might work...

I DO like that idea though, if it can be worked out.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 16, 2009)

First of all, "somatic" doesn't necessarily mean you need to have an actual *hand* to cast the spell- look at the anatomy of the creatures that can cast spells, and you'll see that not all of them have proper hands.  Dragons, anyone?  Demogorgon?

The Celestial Charger (a kind of unicorn) has _hooves_ and it can cast clerical spells.

http://www.d20srd.org/srd/monsters/unicorn.htm

Even if your DM doesn't buy that, you could get past that by using the Metamagic Feat Still Spell.  Yes, it would boost all of your spells by 1 level, but it still works.

Still, you might be surprised at what you can cast.

I designed a PC who was an armored sorcerer.  Not a UA Battle-Sorcerer, but a regular sorcerer who chose to wear Scale Mail...and a Large shield..._and_ wield a Maul.  (And was a total blast to play, FWIW.)

Part of what made him work was using spells without somatic components, which took a bit of research on my part.

The funny thing was that most of the spells without somatic components were _divine _spells.  That's right- the guys who can already cast in armor have more spells that have no somatic components than the guys whose casting is hindered by armor.


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## Crust (Aug 17, 2009)

I DM a good-aligned werewolf in my campaign.  I house-ruled some changes, the good-alignment the most-obvious, so he's not totally legit, but this is what we're working with, using the PHB, MM, Exalted Deeds, Complete Warrior, Complete Champion, Magic Item Compendium, and to a lesser extent Spell Compendium.  I don't have his sheet, so bear with me:

Kragg: NG Half-orc male werewolf ranger 6/stalker of Kharash 5/warshaper 2/kensai 3.

-Kragg is physically the strongest PC.  Combine half-orc, werewolf, warshaper, and kensai, and it's easy to see how he got there.  I'm not even certain of his base strength, but I know he can push it into the 40s.

-Kragg can track evil using his nose (on top of the +4 survival the nose gives him already), scent evil from stalker of Kharash (acts like detect evil when Kragg inhales), and detect evil through blindsense using the feat nemesis from Exalted Deeds.

-With his signature maul "Dourstone," Kragg can stack power attack and favored power attack (evil) and deal hundreds of damage (200+ on a crit easy, one time he dealt over 400 damage using the rhino's rush spell) against his favored enemies, which include undead, constructs, and, thanks to stalker of Kharash, evil.  Imagine evil as a favored enemy.

-Since taking feral strike (a home-made feat that allows him to use his two-weapon feats with his claws, something I wouldn't allow otherwise) at 18th level, Kragg is now unleashing a new brand of destruction.  Combine that with his kensai imbue abilities, nemesis, incredible strength, favored power attack (evil), and greater two-weapon fighting...  well, use your imagination.

-His stealth is through the roof, with maxed out hide and move silently.  Add hide in plain sight from stalker of Kharash, and Kragg is a stealth expert.

-His movement is awesome.  As a wolf, Kragg can achieve movement 50 if necessary.  His high strength and jump ranks make him able to leap great distances.  Swimming and climbing are no problem either.

-He's immune to crits and stunning thanks to warshaper, has the DR 5/silver, and has vampiric imbued into his claws thanks to kensai.  

I understand how fudged he is, and we joke about it constantly at the table, but Kragg really is an interesting PC.  The good-alignment comes from his devotion to Selune, patron of good-aligned lycanthropes (FR world).  The NG kensai comes from his connection to Kharash, sort of like a variant paladin or ranger.  Since he's got an exalted class and feats, I cursed him for committing an evil act (slaying a foe who had submitted), forcing him into wolf form for roughly 6 months out-of-game.  I feel like that time stuck in wolf form allowed him to pay his dues.  I had to do something.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 18, 2009)

Here's another thought:

Are there any spirits the ToM Binder can access that would give you a "wolfy" feel & gameplay?


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## Theroc (Aug 18, 2009)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Here's another thought:
> 
> Are there any spirits the ToM Binder can access that would give you a "wolfy" feel & gameplay?





None really have a wolf-like feel, though I COULD get a mess of natural weapons and such.  But it'd be difficult to run that class past my DM, I'd have to try and type up the entire entry and every vestige I intend to use.  Which... might be overwhelming, given the sheer volume of information.


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## Theroc (Aug 23, 2009)

Hm... The DM allowed the Awakened Wolf concept... but I did run into a mild snag.

Firstly: Wolves begin with 2 HD.

Secondly: Awaken grants an additional 2 HD.

While I could likely (as we're starting at level 1), assume that I only get Druid levels(which is 100% fine by me, as if the Awakened wolf becomes ECL4 I may as well play a werewolf anyway!), it also runs me complications when determining my racial traits as a wolf.

From what I can see, I get +2 Nat armor, 50' movement speed, a bite attack (Which... doesn't use BAB[Does that mean my BAB will be virtually irrelevant as a wolf?  If so, that is unfortunate, lol]), and scent.

Any recommendations on how to set up a level 1 Awakened Wolf Druid mechanically, in regards to racials and what not?

Edit: Possible progression issues
Armor costs are doubled(nonhumanoid doubles medium armor costs), and I can't use weapons... unless my DM rules I can wield weapons in my mouth(which would be interesting... but weird)

How major am impact will this have while levelling up?  (Granted, I've NO clue how long this game will go.)


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 23, 2009)

Just stat him out as a wolf cub as opposed to a fully grown wolf.

IOW, set up a little racial class progression like you'd do with other critters.

This means you'd probably start with only your 1st HD (a Druid one..._maybe_ a second Wolf one, depending upon your DM) scale down your size one step, which means your bite (which, BTW, actually _does_ use your BAB) will be about 1 die type smaller (there is a chart), and halve your NAC bonus to +1.

Weapons are an issue, to be sure.  Of course, you've _got to_ take INA with this build, and that will alleviate some of this.  So will the spell, Magic Fang. 

Magic Fang :: d20srd.org

Armor shouldn't be too bad, though.  The combo of (probably) not being able to use weapons- meaning you're not spending $$ on them- and the fact that you can only wear things like leather or cloth- intrinsically cheap- should let you get about any kind of armor a Druid could wear at 1st level.

In addition, you probably will have a fearsome Dex mod.

In addition, since you'll have an animal companion- Wolf, right?- and the Ranger will too, eventually, you're going to have something resembling a pack!


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## Theroc (Aug 23, 2009)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Just stat him out as a wolf cub as opposed to a fully grown wolf.
> 
> IOW, set up a little racial class progression like you'd do with other critters.
> 
> ...




Was hoping to avoid any sort of RHD or LA here, which was why I chose this option... only to realize that may not work.

Granted, I'd also put forth that the special abilities I get are likely already balanced by the negatives.  "No weapons and no metal armor, so pooey on your BAB" is a rather significant hit in and of itself.  Would I really need to set up racial hit dice and such?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Aug 23, 2009)

Theroc said:


> Was hoping to avoid any sort of RHD or LA here, which was why I chose this option... only to realize that may not work.
> 
> Granted, I'd also put forth that the special abilities I get are likely already balanced by the negatives.  "No weapons and no metal armor, so pooey on your BAB" is a rather significant hit in and of itself.  Would I really need to set up racial hit dice and such?




Really, only your DM can answer that.  If he really loves the concept, he may bend the rules a bit in your favor; find a way to make it work.

But remember: you weren't going to be wearing metal armor anyway, _Druid,_ and your weapon selection isn't the best.  The Wolf's bite + INA is superior to most of a Druid's weaponry- that 1d6 becomes a 1d8.

Monster Feats :: d20srd.org


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