# New Game of Death: Battle Royale of the GAWDS



## clockworkjoe (Nov 20, 2002)

Semester's winding down for me, and I want to make up for the last GoD I tried to run. This one is simpler to run (no hordes of followers) and is aimed at being more dramatic and fun.  



*ENworld Game of Death:
Battle Royale of the GAWDS*

*Introduction*

The gawds of Mount Olympus are bored. Very, very bored. So, they have decided to take a bunch of the most powerful and interesting mortals and pit
them against each other in a gladitoral combat. So, 5 minutes later and throwing a bit of divine magic around, 10 or so powerful adventurers in the 

multiverse are staring at each other across an arena while millions of angels, demons, and spirits of all kinds are watching and cheering them on. 

Zeus appears above the arena and smirks at the shocked mortals. Only a few moments ago, they were meditating, fighting, making love, sleeping, 
researching, insulting kings, tricking demon lords, or searching for treasure. Now they are all fully healed, rested, equipped, and ready to fight. 
Zeus bellows out "Let the games...BEGIN!"

*Setup:*

Each player creates a level 15 character to fight in a gladitoral battle watched by the very gawds. The winner is the player or team with the most points
when the game ends. The game ends when there is only one team or player standing or when the Gawds get too bored. Characters can not only get points
by killing other characters, but by pleasing the crowd and entertaining the gawds. Characters can also form teams to fight together, but loners
will receive more points for whatever they do. The Gawds are very easily bored and will constantly use their divine powers to shake things up for
the adventurers. 

*How this works:*

Anyone who wants to play sends me a character. Once at least 10 characters are sent in, I will post the map, character positions, and a website that will
mirror all updates to the fight. I roll initative and post it. 

Then each player has 24 hours to send in their turn. 

I run the game, round by round, until 1 team or player is left. Points are calculated and the winner is declared, who receives a special victory trophy. 

All time points are added to the lifetime Game of Death totals. 


*Teams:*

Players may choose to create teams to help protect themselves. The advantage of this is that they have fewer threats to worry about this. The disadvantage
to this is that the team receives fewer points for their actions than loners and characters can always betray their team for a big entertainment bonus.

Alignment is not a factor in teams except that some characters like paladins can not associate with evil characters, obviously.

Teams must be created at the start of the game. 

Teams can not have more than 5 members. 

*The Gawds:*

I will use Greek mythology for ease of reference. 9 Gawds will interact with the Arena. All religious characters must choose one of these gawds as
their patron and choose domains appropriately (use good judgment here).

Zeus CG
Athena LG
DemeterNG
Hera LN
Hephaestus N
Artemis CN
Hades LE
Hecate NE
Ares CE

*Advantages:*

Each player can choose a single advantage for his character. These advantages are kept hidden from the other players and add an element that no player
can design around. 

Advantage list:

1. Fandom: The player has a devoted fandom in the crowd. Each round, the player receives a morale bonus. This bonus is added to ONE of the following

a. All attack and damage rolls for that round. 

b. All spell penetration rolls for that round.

c. The save DC for ONE spell.

d. All skill checks for a single skill (can be different from round to round). 

The size of the morale bonus will be generated by me. Charisma increases the bonus and it is never greater than +6. This bonus can never denied to the
player. 

2. Artificer: The player receives an additional 5,000 experience points to create magical items. 

3. Stand by me. The player must take the leadership feat. The player creates a cohort as per the leadership rules in the DMG. The cohort appears next to the
player when the game starts and is run by the player. The cohort has standard wealth for an NPC of his level and may receive additional equipment from 
the player. The cohort follows the same character creation rules the player does. 

4. My gawd _likes_ me: Player receives a minor boon from the gawd every round and will NEVER be attacked by servants of his gawd, such as outsiders
of that alignment. 

5. Help in the corner:. The player must take the leadership feat. The player creates a cohort as stated above. However, this cohort is in the stands of 
the arena. Anytime the player is next to the edge of the arena, the cohort may reach and touch him for the purposes of spells. The cohort may also use 
bardic music to affect the player or his enemies. The cohort may also cast offensive spells or use ranged weapons against someone currently attacking
the player. The cohort can not enter the arena. The cohort can not be harmed by other players. The cohort may hand off small items to the player like
potions or scrolls. 

6. Bonus Feat: The character receives one bonus feat. 

7. Bonus Wealth: The character receives an additional 50,000 gold pieces.

8. Word on the Street: The character learns one secret about each other player. The player may use a standard action to make a gather information check
to learn something about a single other character. 

9. Astounding Background: The character has an incredible history, even for an adventurer. This can be used in 1 of 3 ways. 

a. The character qualifies for any Prestige class that requires a special roleplaying background such as contacting an outsider, finding a secret treasure
etc. 

b. The character may select a creature template. The ECL of the template will be based on Dragon 293 and whatever WOTC says. 

c. The character can buy spell scroll of 8th and 9th level. 

*Pleasing the crowd and scoring points*

20 points for killing a player.

X points for killing a CR X NPC/monster

100 points for being last man standing. 

100 * x points for a team with X members being the last one around. 


5+ points for wowing the crowd. This can include making a spectacular show of arms, skill, or magic, using intimidate or performance skills on the crowd,
and creative acts of daring that impress the Gawds. 

Teams pool their points together. 

Loners receive a point multipler equal to .75 * X where X equals the number of members in the most populous team. 

*Acts of Gawds*

Every single round, one or more of the 9 gawds will do something to the arena. This may include summoning hostile or neutral monsters, creating terrain, 
destroying terrain, or teleporting players around. 


Current game rules:

Books used: Core books, WOTC class splat books, Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting, Magic of Faerun, Manual of the Planes, 
Monster Manual 1 and 2, Psionics Book, Return to the Temple of Elemental Evil, All WOTC web enhancements for these books. 

*Character Creation *

Battle Location: Arena of the Greek Gods
Point Buy:: 36

Experience: 106,000

Races: Core Books, FRCS, MM (case by case basis)

Prestige Classes: Any prestige class from applicable source book

Feats: From any applicable book

Hit Point: Max for Players: 1/2 for NPCs, including cohorts.

Alignment Restriction: All allowed.

Spell Modifications 

Harm has a fort save for 6d6 +1 per caster level damage.

Summon Spells summon only those creatures listed in the PHB. Player’s choice of creature within 1 alignment shift of player’s alignment.

All polymorph spells: Require: 2 preselected selection choices. These must be available options based on the level of the spell level the caster can use. 

These will be the only allowed shapes the caster is allowed. 

With the exception of wild shaping. Wild shaping druids must send in 4 preselected animals following the polymorph self rules with size dependant on wild 

shape sizes. These will be the only allowed shapes for the druid during these combats. 

Wish and Limited Wish will be interpreted in the most twisted way possible. No metagaming language (I wish my fortitude save had a permanent +20 inherent 

bonus) is allowed. 

Magic Items 

Starting Wealth: 200,000 GP for PCs. 

Item Creation: Standard experience and gold cost.

Purchasing Items: Players may not purchase scrolls that cast spells higher than level 7.  

Wands and other charged items: no partially charged items. 

Potions: Potions and scrolls available are only those described in sourcebooks available. Any others must be made with item creation feats.

Other: All players are freely allowed to communicate with one another in private via email or whatever. Unfortunately, I can't think of a way to hide the map 

that won't make running the game a huge pain in the butt so all players will be visible on the both levels on the map, except for hidden/invisible characters 

as usual.


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## Victim (Nov 20, 2002)

I am game.  Hopefully, I can create a character with both deadly effectiveness, and cool moves.  

I promise not to use the munchkin cleric tricks I had last time.


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## Number47 (Nov 20, 2002)

Of course, I have to step forward as the ultimate defender of Bards. Unless another cool idea overtakes me.

Neither Apollo nor Pan are on the list of gawds. Is there no god of music present?


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## Twinswords (Nov 20, 2002)

count me in.

Twinswords


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## Sir Hawkeye (Nov 20, 2002)

Bam. (By which I mean, count me in)

"Increase my killing power, eh?"


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## Asmodeus (Nov 20, 2002)

This God will show the "Gawds" a proper show of power. Count me in.

I am assuming the most mi-max of concepts are allowed like fighter1,ranger 1, paladin1, monk1 and so on?

Enjoy


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## Number47 (Nov 20, 2002)

Don't forget to take 1 level each of Commoner and Expert


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## Single Malt (Nov 20, 2002)

This should be fun. Count me in, too, if there is still room.

To quote Mel Gibson (err, well not quite, but as close as I can get it anyhow): "I bring all sorts of good things to a table. I hardly bluff and I never, ever cheat!"


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 20, 2002)

A few addendums:

Email everything to rdp485s@smsu.edu

I prefer txt and html files for character sheets. No exotic formats please. Please send the character as an attached file and not in the body of the email.

On second thought, Any Greek GAWD can be worshipped by characters. However, only the nine above will actually interfere with the arena. I chose only 9 to have one gawd represent each alignment. 

One note about characters: Bardic knowledge, harper knowledge, and appropriate knowledge skills can be used to learn basic information about the other characters. Bardic knowledge will learn much more than a knowledge (heroes and villains or whatever) but these characters will probably know a little about everyone. 

If anyone wants to create a team, I will be glad to create an email list for them.

First come, first serve. I'll start making the arena map and web page once I get 10 characters. Once I start the game, no more characters allowed. 

Colorful and interesting characters are preferred to boring collection of minimaxed stats and items.

Players can increase their score by displaying exactly how they will perform action X or Y. For example, a well drawn jpg depicting a sorcerer blasting someone with a fireball or a vividly written descriptive paragraph of a fighter's full attack is better than "I attack X or cast Y at X".  Think of this as extra credit for being creative and contributing to the game. 

Well written and interesting characters will be more favored by the GAWDS than boring characters.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 20, 2002)

Oh yes, one final note.

When making characters, please note whenever you use something besides the core books. I can't remember where every feat, item, and spell comes from.


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## JDragon (Nov 20, 2002)

Sign me up, I'll email a character ASAP.

JDragon


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## JDragon (Nov 20, 2002)

Anyone want to join me to start a team?

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 20, 2002)

oh yeah,

I've crossposted this to kenzerco.com and somethingawful.com message boards. 

lol xbox is huge lol


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## Xarlen (Nov 20, 2002)

Where do we send questions (not characters) to? I've got some questions in regards to creating my character.

Paticularly domains and mounts and such.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 20, 2002)

questions to same email addy

rdp485s@smsu.edu


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## Number47 (Nov 21, 2002)

Okay, mine is sent out. Don't disappoint us, now! There might be a lynching.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 21, 2002)

Ok, we got one player approved


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## JDragon (Nov 21, 2002)

Will a PDF work for the Character Sheet?

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 21, 2002)

I suppose. I prefer sheets that I can copy and access quickly. PDF files require me to load a new program while text files load instantly basically. 

But if you REALLY REALLY want to send me a PDF then you can.


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## Dr Midnight (Nov 21, 2002)

what about a .Doc file? Not making a pun, honest...


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## Dr Midnight (Nov 21, 2002)

Okay, my guy's submitted. Pending approval, I'm due for some killin'.


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## JDragon (Nov 21, 2002)

DO you have a specific sheet you would like us to use?

If so post it and I'll copy my character over to it.

 

Thanks

JDragon

THe other option I have is an excel file.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 21, 2002)

Just make a text file and type it up like this I may be leaving something out but you get the idea.:


Name: Joe Palooka 
Race: Half Orc
Class: Psychic Warrior 9

Str 24
Dex 18
Con 20
Int 8
Wis 12
Cha 11

Hit points 9d8 + 45 = 117

AC 22 Flat foot X touch X

Fort save +7 base +5 con 

Reflex save +3 base +4 dex
etc.

Init bonus +4

speed 30 feet

Base Attack Bonus +6/+1

Power points 26

Skills
Concentration +8 swim +5 etc

Feats
Weapon Focus longsword etc.

Psychic powers (or spells) power DC = X
1. valor
2. float

magic items
+1 chain shirt
long sword +1 
please include your total bonuses for any given weapon plz

companions
bob the ranger
bob's full stats


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## reapersaurus (Nov 22, 2002)

I'm in.
Hope I get my character in in time to be selected.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 22, 2002)

to be nice, the lich template is only +2 ECL for this game. 

Liches will find out what happens to their soul gem in secret.

Other template costs may be lowered if you ask me about them. I'm pretty generous.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 22, 2002)

oh, boy - i just realized : no OA? 

BTW: What's your take on the ECL of a Mutant Sahaugin?


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 22, 2002)

I have OA, but I don't want to deal with all the extra classes and powers. 

I will let isolated elements in like a weapon or race or something. 

mutant sahugin are ECL 4.  normal are 3.


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## Victim (Nov 22, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *oh, boy - i just realized : no OA?
> 
> *




And thank God for that.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 22, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *
> 
> And thank God for that. *




Yeah, too much stuff to worry about. But if someone wants to use a katana or be a nezumi, that's fine. That's no extra work for me really. 

But no feats, no spells, no prestige classes, etc. from OA. Too much for me to look up.

Ask me about an element from OA before using it.


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## DM with a vengence (Nov 22, 2002)

I'm in.  Always wanted to do one of these.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 22, 2002)

got a couple more signed up.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 22, 2002)

I'm only interested in the Singh Rager.
That's it.

If you include MoF, you're obviously not worried about PrC balance issues - that book's hideous.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 22, 2002)

That's true, I'm not that worried about balance. I just don't want to get overwhelmed looking up obscure feat/spell/item X in 20 bazillion books over and over. 

And I looked over the rager. He's basically a lawful barbarian with some extra goodies. Not that interesting.

If you REALLY want to use him, type every rule about the class(including the Ki shout feat) that I would need to run him without having to look at OA in your sheet.  I don't want to refer to that book everytime you do something.


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## Twinswords (Nov 23, 2002)

mine is also send

Twinswords


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## Sir Hawkeye (Nov 23, 2002)

Time to start playing the mental game.

*Speaking to self very loudly*
"I certainly hope no one makes a WIZARD with CONSTITUTION 8! I couldn't possibly defeat a CON 8 WIZARD! Such a character would never die a swift and painful death!"


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## JDragon (Nov 23, 2002)

*Mines in *

Well, 

I'm not sure I made it in time, but my character is in for the fun.

See you all in the arena.  

JDragon


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## Berk (Nov 23, 2002)

sounds interesting man =o)

gonna make up a char and send it to ya and see if I can actually get in this thing.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 23, 2002)

yyup, still plenty of space.


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## Terraism (Nov 23, 2002)

I'm interested - I can have a character sent up before morning, but... before I begin - psionics?  (Note - I'm still interested even if there's not, but I'd like to know.)


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 23, 2002)

Yes, psionics are allowed. Everything from WOTC including web enhancements are kosher.


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## Terraism (Nov 23, 2002)

Oh - forgot to ask; I'm assuming, but... we're using the PR/SR are interchangeable, yes?


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 24, 2002)

good question. Forgot to mention but yes, they are transparent. Anti magic field affect psionics and Power Resistance affects spells.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 24, 2002)

I should also mention that someone can use their advantage to select the lich template for free (including the cost of a soul gem). 

hint hint.


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## Terraism (Nov 24, 2002)

[Nevermind]


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 24, 2002)

oh yes, one more thing. 
if your emails aren't getting through, try contact@slangdesign.com

I still only have 6 approved characters. Some people need to send me their corrected characters.


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## JDragon (Nov 24, 2002)

*Did mine make it?*

Just wanted to check and see if mine made it through?

I havn't seen any returned mail, but some times that can take a little while to show up.

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 25, 2002)

Characters so far: (By character name)

Dabbil the Fourth. 

Maturak Thundersworn.

Rale Hawkeye.

Harsel Stonebane.

Landerin.

NORMAN WITHERSPOON.

Saepiroth.

Yasumoto Bayushi.

If your character's name isn't on this list, you haven't sent it to me, or it isn't approved either because you said it was only a draft and wanted some ruling from it, or i said you needed to change something.

I'll start making section 1 of the map tomorrow. (The map is pretty big.)

Also, no one has submitted a team yet.

Rangers and druids can bring in animal companions for free as that is a class feature, and animals are not cohorts (no gear, spells etc.).


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## Single Malt (Nov 25, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Characters so far: (By character name)
> 
> Dabbil the Fourth.
> 
> ...




Note to self: whack the guy with the lute  
This could possibly be the deadliest bard in history!


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## Number47 (Nov 25, 2002)

Paladin, actually. See my shiny armor?


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## Single Malt (Nov 25, 2002)

What happened to the ultimate protector of bards?

...and curse you for ruining my brilliant tactics! All that work.....and for naught!!!


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## Number47 (Nov 25, 2002)

My last word on the subject. Bard is a poor choice for 15th level game of death. Their biggest advantage is "casting above the limit". Doesn't mean much when a pure caster can cast eighth level spells. Although a bard can cast both divine and arcane scrolls....


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## Balgus (Nov 25, 2002)

but i really doubt anyone will go pure caster unless they have a brother or something to back them up as a meat shield.  

HP and protection should be abiggee in this tournament.

BTW- maybe i missed it- but wher eis this being hosted.  I know I can't compete a giantr FFA with these BigWigs but I would sure like tp watch...


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 25, 2002)

I'll post the site when I finish making it.


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## Balgus (Nov 25, 2002)

cool- I will be there with bells on to cheer on the person that is losing... 

I hate bandwagonhoppers!!!

But of course by my saying I will cheer for the loser, I am creating a reverse bandwagon.. dilly

have fun and good luck to all


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## Balgus (Nov 25, 2002)

one more thing- 

is anyone willing to post their character after they are eliminated from the tournament?  I would like to see the cool creations that people come up with.  

As we all know- many of our ideas (and DMs, I feel for you) go unnoticed because we rarely ever have enough time to showcase them all.  Or the many nuances that make a characeter whole.  Or the cool tactic we have devised oinly to be snuffed out by a character that can counter it perfectly...


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 25, 2002)

Balgus said:
			
		

> *one more thing-
> 
> is anyone willing to post their character after they are eliminated from the tournament?  I would like to see the cool creations that people come up with.
> 
> As we all know- many of our ideas (and DMs, I feel for you) go unnoticed because we rarely ever have enough time to showcase them all.  Or the many nuances that make a characeter whole.  Or the cool tactic we have devised oinly to be snuffed out by a character that can counter it perfectly... *




I'm going to do it regardless of what their wishes. tee-hee.

But after the game ends.  Don't want to give people easy ID on magic items left on the bodies.


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## JDragon (Nov 25, 2002)

Balgus,

IF you are jumping on the looser ban-wagon, my guess is that will be me.

I have a feeling I'm way out classed here, but that doesn't mean I wont go down with out a fight.

JDragon

AKA "Harsel Stonebane"


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## Number47 (Nov 25, 2002)

Seeing as how it's going to be a little while before we start (I assume), I want to start opening up the floor to speculation. These are not questions for clockworkjoe, just things for players to kibbitz about.

First thing I want to talk about is preparation. From the description, it doesn't seem like we get any preparation time, we're just dropped into the arena. This would be very good for combat machines. The more prep time casters have, the better for them. My guess is, clockworkjoe will drop us into the arena with no prep, but he has already alluded to the size of the arena being huge. So I am guessing we should be able to prep a couple spells before being directly in combat if we so desire.

Next thing I want ask is, what do you think of the different advantages?

*Fandom.* It's Charisma-tied, so it would be best for Paladin, Bard or Sorceror. Using the bonus to hit and damage is good for a Paladin. Using the bonus to spell DC is good for a Bard or Sorceror. Using the bonus to spell penetration I don't expect to come in handy too much, but you never know. Using it for a skill check...? The only skill I can see using this with is Use Magic Device, what other skill use is better than using the boost to hit and damage? Over all, on a scale of one to five, I rate this advantage a 3.

*Artificer.* 5,000 extra XP for creation. Unless you have something really, really specific in mind, my opinion is big whoop. Compared to the two cohort-advantages, this seems like small beans. It's upside is that you don't have to have anything special to make use of it. On a scale of one to five, I rate it a 2.

*Stand by me.* A cohort with 36 point buy and full NPC equipment? Dude! You have to have a 20 Charisma to get a 14th level cohort, but that is easily achievable with a Cloak of Charisma +6. 14th level cohort starts with 45,000gp gear. 13th with 35,000gp. Not a lot of money, but they also have spells, attacks, whatever. The downside is the need for Charisma, having to spend a feat on it and the fact the guy can die or turn on you. Overall, I rate this one a 4 out of 5.

*My gawd likes me.* This one is just to hazily worded to judge. Minor boon every round sounds like a first or second pumping/healing spell every round. Maybe a teleport out of difficult situations? I didn't take this one, even though it sounded interesting, because there is nothing here that you can truly count on. All things being equal, you cannot be attacked by one-ninth of the outsiders in play. Not knowing what you're really getting, I rate it a 1 out of 5.

*Help in the corner.* All of the advantages of Stand by me, with one serious drawback removed. The cohort cannot be attacked. You lose a lot of mobility, I assume. This is a great feat for producing a spellcaster with a lot of flaws that would die quickly otherwise. If the cohort can Dispel your opponents, this is the advantage that truly rocks! I score it a 5 out of 5.

*Bonus feat.* The usefulness of this one all depends on the character, I guess. A non-human who gains no bonus feats has only 6, so this is a 16% increase. A high level human fighter has a gajillion feats, so just one more seems a little fruitless unless you have a really specific concept. I rate it a 3 of 5.

*Bonus wealth.* A 25% boost to starting wealth. Pretty darn good. Works with all types of characters. Nothing "gee whiz" about it, though. I rate it a 3.5 out of 5.

*Word on the street.* Have to have a good Gather Information check. That's Charisma, right? So another Charisma-based advantage. The thing that bothers me about this one is that it takes a standard action. When is someone going to have that time to spare? What are you going to learn? I imagine class/classes would be the best/most likely info. I rate this one a 2 out of 5.

*Astounding background.* I have trouble knowing how good this is. This one is as good as the books you own. I am working from PHB, DMG, MM. That's it. So I can't be sure how nice this would be. I am not rating it.


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## Terraism (Nov 26, 2002)

Now that it looks like I'm in... I'm curious, who else is playing?  Anyone have any comments as of yet?  Pre-battle-royale trash talk?    I'm looking forward to this.  Number47 - nice summation of advantages.  "Number" crunching is always fun to look at.

Oh - Clockworkjoe... do you have any idea yet as to when it looks like we're going to start playing?  Just looking for a rough estimate, is all, but I am curious.  With it being Thanksgiving holiday and all, thing's could get busy fast, and I want to make sure I'm here.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 26, 2002)

we will start this week, probably wednesday or thursday. 

Also you can begin the match with any spells that last 12 hours or more already cast. So casters can get some buffing in.


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## DM with a vengence (Nov 26, 2002)

Does that include long term effects generated from items like a Ring of Invisability?


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 26, 2002)

depends on item. Rings of invis are no no, since I want everyone aware of everyone else's starting position.


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## green slime (Nov 26, 2002)

Holy Smoke this one is moving fast! I guess this means no Agladan? *Looks around carefully*

I'll mail in my character this evening!!! (No books at work)

BTW, Number47, I disagree with your analysis! But I ain't telling, till after someone slaughters  Verdin version 3.1 !


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## Number47 (Nov 26, 2002)

Green Slime, how ya doing? Just gotta mention that I didn't necessarily take what I rated as best. Believe it or not, I have "roleplay reasons" in this one.


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## reapersaurus (Nov 26, 2002)

"you didn't take"?
Does that mean that you have already decided the (10?) entrants, or can I finalize my entry and submit it for consideration?


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## Number47 (Nov 26, 2002)

I'm talking about the choice of advantage for my character. I am not the DM.


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 26, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *"you didn't take"?
> Does that mean that you have already decided the (10?) entrants, or can I finalize my entry and submit it for consideration? *




We have at least 12 characters so far and I'm still accepting people! 

New list of characters that I consider ready:

Dabbil the Fourth. 

Maturak Thundersworn.

Rale Hawkeye.

Harsel Stonebane.

Landerin.

NORMAN WITHERSPOON.

Saepiroth.

Yasumoto Bayushi.

Ancryx

Jarrod 

Zalilad 

Icitrik Ownsjoo

Macallan


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## reapersaurus (Nov 26, 2002)

Just to clarify : 
if you choose Leadership, you HAVE to get either "Stand By Me" or "Help in the Corner"?

But Fandom AND the Leadership feat just call for my character!


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 26, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Just to clarify :
> if you choose Leadership, you HAVE to get either "Stand By Me" or "Help in the Corner"?
> 
> But Fandom AND the Leadership feat just call for my character!   *




No, of course not. Leadership is prereq. to take stand by me or help in the corner. 

Fandom does stack with leadership. 
Max bonus is still +6.


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## Number47 (Nov 27, 2002)

I don't get it. If you can take Leadership without having the advantage of Stand by Me or Help in the Corner, what do those advantages actually do?


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## clockworkjoe (Nov 27, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I don't get it. If you can take Leadership without having the advantage of Stand by Me or Help in the Corner, what do those advantages actually do? *




You can take the leadership feat , but that doesn't mean your cohort shows up with you


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## Johno (Nov 27, 2002)

Emailed first draft to you, Clockworkjoe...

Hope most is OK.


----------



## Number47 (Nov 27, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You can take the leadership feat , but that doesn't mean your cohort shows up with you  *




You are an evil, evil man. I love it!


----------



## clockworkjoe (Nov 27, 2002)

I will roll initative for round in roughly 24 hours. 

The maps are done, but I'm still working on a few other things. 

Just to whet your appetite, the raw HTML of each map is roughly 390k. 

If you don't turn in a character by the time I'm rolling init tomorrow, you ain't in.

Dabbil the Fourth. 

Maturak Thundersworn.

Rale Hawkeye.

Harsel Stonebane.

Landerin.

NORMAN WITHERSPOON.

Saepiroth.

Yasumoto Bayushi.

Ancryx

Jarrod 

Zalilad 

Icitrik Ownsjoo

Macallan

Martok

Fingolfin 

Oh and everyone post their email addy with your character name next to it so people can email each other if they so choose for last minute teams or whatever. 

Oh and if anyone wants to make their own icon for the game, make a 25x25 gif or jpg and send it to me.


----------



## JDragon (Nov 27, 2002)

Sounds like were ready to rock and roll!

Harsel Stonebane = JDragon000@aol.com

JDragon

BTW how long do you think this will take? (IE how many days?)


----------



## Saepiroth (Nov 27, 2002)

<-- Saepiroth; saepiroth@hotmail.com

i am the most creative person on the planet.

anyway, i am one of the players from Somethingawful.com, and apperently the leader of the only team so far in the game. looking at some of the competition we're up against here, i just have to hope we don't make too much of a mess when we die horribly.


and, of course JUST to exemplify my creativity, my symbol is just a little red "S".


----------



## Terraism (Nov 27, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You can take the leadership feat , but that doesn't mean your cohort shows up with you  *



[Chuckle.]  Boy, I'm glad that I kept asking questions about the advantages... ouch.  [Grin.]  That's wonderfully evil - I salute you!


----------



## Number47 (Nov 27, 2002)

My e-mail, nerfed:

Dabbil the Fourth, played by Number 47, e-mail dragonwhitetile at yahoo.com

I am more than willing to come to temporary alliegances on the battlefield, particularly because I do not want to war with people of my same alignment. Joining a permanent team is right out, though.

I'll use the same icon as last time.


----------



## Victim (Nov 27, 2002)

Maturak Thundersworn -> maoehler@iastate.edu

I'm willing to team up with people.

I'm on break and thus won't be checking these boards and my email as compulsively as I usually do.  So I might be a bit slow to respond for awhile.


----------



## Bhaal (Nov 27, 2002)

Fingolfin. email: mwcordes at yahoo.com

I'm looking for a partner.  I prefer a spellcaster (meaning we'd compliment eachother), and divine spellcasters will work a little better over arcane, but not by a whole lot.

Email me or use ICQ/AIM and drop a message (my computer's usually on so i'll see it eventually).

ICQ: 8784313
AIM: pleasegivemeanam

Good luck


----------



## Single Malt (Nov 27, 2002)

Macallan - denlangefinnen at hotmail.com

I'm open to all suggestions regarding cooperation. With so many people looking to rip me a new one some help is always appreciated  

Don't know if I'm supposed to ask this, but who is on Saepiroth's team? If that is meant to be secret until the game starts, forget I ever asked.....


----------



## green slime (Nov 27, 2002)

Single Malt: I'll team with you, and Number47, and even Bhaal, but I'm hoping his character isn't as Evil as his namesake...

And my character isn't approved yet 

And a Valid email address for those interested in forming a team:

mckee "at" telia.com

Be sure to have "GoD" in the subject line or It'll drown in the spam...

I'll email Number47, Bhaal, and Single Malt, about forming a team, if it is OK with you guys.


----------



## Twinswords (Nov 27, 2002)

charactername is jarrod

emial is o.vanbilsen@planet.nl
I will help people in the arena who i like, but i will join no team.

Twinswords


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Nov 27, 2002)

Rale Hawkeye - gondolin60@aol.com

AIM- Doctor Funk II


----------



## Terraism (Nov 27, 2002)

I'm running Ancryx - I might be willing to team with someone, if you're interested, though... I'd be most amenable to a temporary alliance, as in, 'till everyone else is dead, then a mutual sundering (of course, assuming I survive once "everyone else is dead," )  You can reach me - terraism@hotmail.com - though I'll only be checking e-mail once or twice for the next few days (on break, and using the [ugh] family computer, since mine's still at school.  [Grumble.])  Bhaal, if you're interested, I'm a spellcaster, of sorts, so...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Nov 27, 2002)

Single Malt said:
			
		

> *Macallan - denlangefinnen at hotmail.com
> 
> I'm open to all suggestions regarding cooperation. With so many people looking to rip me a new one some help is always appreciated
> 
> Don't know if I'm supposed to ask this, but who is on Saepiroth's team? If that is meant to be secret until the game starts, forget I ever asked..... *




Saepiroth, Tobias Sextus, and icitrik ownzjoo are all on a team.


----------



## Bhaal (Nov 27, 2002)

Terrasim (Ancryx) and myself have teamed up.  Also for added fun, everyone go make your character's portrait with heromachine.  Here's my guy:


----------



## Number47 (Nov 27, 2002)

How is this? All us "solos" agree to fight the teams first. You know, as long as it's convenient. Just watch out, you evil guys, there will be no mercy.

Okay, this only looks a little like my character.


----------



## Terraism (Nov 27, 2002)

And mine:


----------



## Johno (Nov 27, 2002)

Terraism: Your character has goodly kindness written all over him...


----------



## JDragon (Nov 27, 2002)

*Harsel Stonebane*

Ok,

Heres my attempt at doing a dwarf with HeroMachine, and then making a few changes in Photoshop, let me know what you think.

BTW - the whip should be a spiked chain. (but HM doesn't have anything close)

Ok gotta try that again.


----------



## Terraism (Nov 27, 2002)

Johno said:
			
		

> *Terraism: Your character has goodly kindness written all over him... *



Glad to hear - the whole goal was to make him look nice and friendly.  I'd originally planned on giving him a cat, but I don't know where it went... err, actually, that might be what he's holding in his right han-- oh, dear.


----------



## JDragon (Nov 27, 2002)

OK, try 2.

If this doesn't work can someone give me some suggestions?

JDragon


----------



## Twinswords (Nov 27, 2002)

here is my character.


----------



## Twinswords (Nov 27, 2002)

Try two.


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## aceplayer (Nov 27, 2002)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *And mine: *



Damn you...
edit:well that didn't work...  anyway his character shared a few things with my character.  too lazy to try again


----------



## Berk (Nov 27, 2002)

You all shall bow down and tremble before the power and might of Martok!!! =o)

Forgot, email is andrewsm@interlix.com


----------



## Saepiroth (Nov 27, 2002)

the banner of the most probable first team to die.


----------



## Dalamar (Nov 27, 2002)

Landerrin's my char and e-mail addy is wbweb@jippii.fi


----------



## SA-Jinx (Nov 27, 2002)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *the banner of the most probable first team to die. *




Don't sell us short so easily. Just because we aren't *[H]*ardcore D&D dweebs doesn't mean we don't stand a chance.

I'm going to kill Terraism first, then that git with the wings. I will leave the Paladin last, for desert.


----------



## Terraism (Nov 28, 2002)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Don't sell us short so easily. Just because we aren't [H]ardcore D&D dweebs doesn't mean we don't stand a chance.
> 
> I'm going to kill Terraism first, then that git with the wings. I will leave the Paladin last, for desert. *



[Evil chuckle.]


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Nov 28, 2002)

Let's try this.

BTW, Those axes should be picks, and the first person to mess with the bird gets one in the eye.


----------



## reapersaurus (Nov 28, 2002)

*furiously typing*

geez, I hope i can get this character finished in time..  *tick tick tick*  24 hours ....  the sands falling thru the hourglass ....


----------



## clockworkjoe (Nov 28, 2002)

Site is up, I'll wait a little longer for a few more entries. 

http://www.slangdesign.com/battle/

Note the map is linked in the reference links. 

http://www.slangdesign.com/battle/arena1.html

http://www.slangdesign.com/battle/arena2.html


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Nov 28, 2002)

Wheee! Madness, Mayhem, and General Unfriendliness ensue!

Impressively large map... even if you did steal all the terrain form FF1


----------



## aceplayer (Nov 28, 2002)

Let's see if this works


----------



## clockworkjoe (Nov 28, 2002)

Decided to hold off for the late comers. 1 pm Central Standard Time 11-28 is the official cut off date for all entries. That is roughly 12 hours from this post. 

However, here is the current cast of the game along with their icons:

http://www.slangdesign.com/battle/cast.html


----------



## reapersaurus (Nov 28, 2002)

I sent you a boatload of info with my submission, and have more coming.
Thanks for holding off a bit more.  :thumbsup:


----------



## Berk (Nov 28, 2002)

*cackles insanely to himself at the idea of snatching others ioun stones*


----------



## Berk (Nov 28, 2002)

*chuckles evily while moving eyes side to side slowly with ominous music playing in the background*


----------



## reapersaurus (Nov 28, 2002)

Number 47 - you'd be cool with my character, since you have a shield.  

Course, you ONLY have one of them, but that's not your fault.  

My email addy for this goodness is johnandkel@lanset.com

P.S. does anyone have a Shield Icon?


----------



## DM with a vengence (Nov 28, 2002)

Yasumoto Bayushi

Email me at: zarkology1@yahoo.com


----------



## clockworkjoe (Nov 28, 2002)

Game site is updated.

I tried to post the actual update several times but it won't let me.

Why do i keep getting bad server requests?


----------



## green slime (Nov 29, 2002)

Very cool arena, indeed.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Nov 30, 2002)

bozzump


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 1, 2002)

Dabbil - nice touch, with the Athena song - you beat me to even thinking about it.
But I'm a Who fan, so it comes with the territory.  

So I'm curious - how long are people taking with their turns?
Is there a max time?
Recommended duration?
Are you waiting for each person to post their initial action before inviting the next person to post?
Just curious how you're running the nightmare of coordinating all this, clockwork.

duh - "It's running like clockwork."


----------



## Dr Midnight (Dec 2, 2002)

Norman Witherspoon, man about town


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 2, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Dabbil - nice touch, with the Athena song - you beat me to even thinking about it.
> But I'm a Who fan, so it comes with the territory.
> 
> So I'm curious - how long are people taking with their turns?
> ...




1. Dr. Midnight gets 10 bonus victory points for that AWESOME portrait.  Other players will get bonus points assigned at the end of the game for flavor text/backgrounds etc. 

2. Some people sent their turns in early which helps a LOT. As you may have noticed, I processed 4 people in a row yesterday. They all sent in their actions early. 

3. The sooner you can send in a turn, the better. 

4. Yes, your 24 hour time limit starts when I email you asking for your action. 

5. Movable Type is a huge help. 

6. Yes, this game will take a while to play. No easy way to run it quickly.


----------



## Victim (Dec 2, 2002)

Nevermind


----------



## Number47 (Dec 2, 2002)

By the next round, there will only be two or three of us still visible on the map! I don't know about the rest of you, but I decided when making my character that invisibility isn't my "style".


----------



## Number47 (Dec 2, 2002)

Oh, good. Now I can finally post on this thread! I made up a small, composite map to aid in strategy for myself. If you have a small monitor like me, you might find it hand, too. The details might be off a little, but no more than a square. All the players are on it, mapped to where they were after the first couple initiatives (I'm the star!). They aren't labeled, of course, but you should know who is in your general area anyway.


----------



## JDragon (Dec 2, 2002)

I'm with you #47,

Iv'e got is an option, but not as the first thing I do.  Of Coarse when I'm the first one dead I might change my mind for the next go round.   

JDragon


----------



## Berk (Dec 2, 2002)

now that I can finally post
good luck all!! =o)


----------



## Single Malt (Dec 2, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *By the next round, there will only be two or three of us still visible on the map! I don't know about the rest of you, but I decided when making my character that invisibility isn't my "style". *




I wouldn't worry too much about the invisibility. My guess is that in a couple of rounds almost everyone will be visible again, I mean where's the fun in hiding out all the time? I would say this is pretty normal behaviour for people just thrown head-first into a deathmatch with 17 of their most feared opponents. The first few rounds there will likely be a lot of buffing, info gathering and sneaking before everyone feels confident enough to go kick some butt


----------



## Victim (Dec 2, 2002)

Single Malt said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I wouldn't worry too much about the invisibility. My guess is that in a couple of rounds almost everyone will be visible again, I mean where's the fun in hiding out all the time? I would say this is pretty normal behaviour for people just thrown head-first into a deathmatch with 17 of their most feared opponents. The first few rounds there will likely be a lot of buffing, info gathering and sneaking before everyone feels confident enough to go kick some butt  *




Agreed.  Most people are going to open with the defense that blocks the most attacks, and helps their offense.  Invis is a good defense, because even characters with countermeasures still have to activate them and move within range.  It also helps set up an attack position.  Haste and Fly work both ways too.

Also, just moving into position to kick some but takes some doing.  If, based on your knowledge of the enemies, you decide that target #1 is character X, how do you attack him if he's all the way across the map?  You need to get there without getting attacked yourself and without spooking the target.  Pretty much the same problem exists with teams.  You have to get close enough to your partner for mutual support without getting creamed.

Besides, plenty of people have Blindsight from MaoF, so I'd imagine that they'd attempt to hunt down characters apparently relying on invisibility as a defense.  Blindsight also works against the infamous Dust of Disappearence.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 2, 2002)

> Besides, plenty of people have Blindsight from MaoF, so I'd imagine that they'd attempt to hunt down characters apparently relying on invisibility as a defense. Blindsight also works against the infamous Dust of Disappearence.




You know, I was debating whether I should allow the spell blindsight to detect dusted characters, because dust specifically states that it defeats all *magical* methods of detection. Natural blindsight is one thing, magical blindsight is another,

I'm still not 100% decided in the issue.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 2, 2002)

Does that mean you don't allow True Seeing to defeat Dust of Disappearance? What about Glitterdust?


----------



## Victim (Dec 2, 2002)

Dang.  At least Antimagic Field can stop it.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 2, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Does that mean you don't allow True Seeing to defeat Dust of Disappearance? What about Glitterdust? *




true seeing still autodefeats all illusion spells basically.

Glitterdust, no. If see invis can't work, neither can glitterdust.


----------



## Berk (Dec 2, 2002)

damn, shoulda picked up about 20 more packets then =o)


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 2, 2002)

I should also mention mundane methods such as throwing water on someone covered in the dust will work as well. Or throwing them into the lake.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 2, 2002)

Throwing them into the lake is problematic, if you can't see them! Of course, if I can see them, I just might throw them in so others can see them, too. Of course, if they simply drown that's okay.

Would you mind reading the description for Dust of Appearance again? I think it might make you reconsider the Glitterdust angle. Or am I reading it wrong? Doesn't matter, I plan on using the reliable True Seeing.


----------



## Berk (Dec 2, 2002)

> I wouldn't worry too much about the invisibility. My guess is that in a couple of rounds almost everyone will be visible again, I mean where's the fun in hiding out all the time? I would say this is pretty normal behaviour for people just thrown head-first into a deathmatch with 17 of their most feared opponents. The first few rounds there will likely be a lot of buffing, info gathering and sneaking before everyone feels confident enough to go kick some butt




I just can't wait for round 2 and 3 and 4 and 5 and 6........


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 3, 2002)

If you need icons for the animals, clockwork, I've got one for the bear. Who would have thought low-res scans of the 2e MM would come in handy?


----------



## DM with a vengence (Dec 3, 2002)

Yeah my plan was.

Round 1. Buff, move to cover, hide
Round 2. Buff more, move into position, hide
Round 3. UNLEASH SMACKDOWN!
Round 4. Finish SMACKDOWN
Round 5. Run back to cover
Round 6. Move back into position


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 3, 2002)

Updated with Hawkeye's and Zalilad's actions.


----------



## Victim (Dec 3, 2002)

DM with a vengence said:
			
		

> *Yeah my plan was.
> 
> Round 1. Buff, move to cover, hide
> Round 2. Buff more, move into position, hide
> ...




Well, don't move so close to me!    Now I'll have to remember to cast another one of my anti-smackdown spells on round 3.

My plan was also to spend the first few rounds buffing and into an attack position.  I don't really have a smackdown caliber, so the actual attack will take longer.


----------



## Victim (Dec 3, 2002)

Well, now we seem to have a better idea of what the "My god likes me!" advantage includes.  I wonder how many times the gods will bail you out though.  Tough break Dabbil.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 3, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Well, now we seem to have a better idea of what the "My god likes me!" advantage includes.  I wonder how many times the gods will bail you out though.  Tough break Dabbil. *




A few clarifications on My god likes me:

The boon will at most duplicate a spell of 3rd level or lower or similar effect such as asking for mundane equipment.

The boon will never dispel magic.

The boon will never cause a player damage.

The boon is considered to be cast by a level 15 spellcaster. 

The boon will never heal more than 30 points of damage a round.

The boon will never apply metamagic feats to a spell.

The boon will duplicate a spell/effect that is not easily available.

The boon will never duplicate psionic powers. 

If a boon is dispelled, it will not automatically be recast the next round. 

Players with the advantage may pray for a specific spell/effect, but
The more powerful the boon, the less control over it/direct usefulness it will have for the player. In this case, a protection vs X spell is not that much to ask for since it is a level 1 spell. Level 15 characters of any class can have access to it easily enough.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 4, 2002)

Quite truthfully, having Zalilad run right at me will probably be the best thing that could have happened. My original orders to him were to attack somebody who is now invisible anyway.


----------



## DM with a vengence (Dec 4, 2002)

I know it's been a while, but here's my character, Yasumoto Bayushi, courtesy of Heromachine and Photoshop.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 6, 2002)

At this point, I just want to thank clockworkjoe for getting the game up so quickly and keeping it moving pretty fast. And bump.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 6, 2002)

Therron's cohort, stagename of "Jade":


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 6, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *At this point, I just want to thank clockworkjoe for getting the game up so quickly and keeping it moving pretty fast. And bump. *




Again, Movabletype is made for this kinda thing. When this thing is all over, I will write up a guide for would be GMs of future Games of Death 

Also, only 1 person left before round 2 begins and the gods start interfering with the battle


----------



## Number47 (Dec 6, 2002)

Yeah. I was just about to send in my turn 2 action, then I remembered those pesky gods.


----------



## Victim (Dec 6, 2002)

Hmm, so Ancryx is a psionic lich?  I hope it's not the one from If Thoughts Could Kill.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 6, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Hmm, so Ancryx is a psionic lich?  I hope it's not the one from If Thoughts Could Kill. *



Yup.  I like the thing.


----------



## Victim (Dec 6, 2002)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *Yup.  I like the thing. *




Oh boy.  I guess you might have a couple of Transcend Limits too, if you're using ITCK stuff.  That would make those Astral Constructs up to 7s instead of 4s.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 6, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh boy.  I guess you might have a couple of Transcend Limits too, if you're using ITCK stuff.  That would make those Astral Constructs up to 7s instead of 4s. *



Now that, my friend, is for me to know, and you to wait, watch, and observe in a rather immediate, firsthand fashion...


----------



## Victim (Dec 7, 2002)

Hopefully secondhand, not first.  Unless you have also weaseled your way into Psionics are Different AND decide to attack me instead of the incoming Pouce+Shield Charge Smackdown called Therron Oakenshield.

I wish my poor character moved faster.  There's an awesome target for me, but there's no way I can get there in time.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 7, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Hopefully secondhand, not first.  Unless you have also weaseled your way into Psionics are Different AND decide to attack me instead of the incoming Pouce+Shield Charge Smackdown called Therron Oakenshield.
> 
> I wish my poor character moved faster.  There's an awesome target for me, but there's no way I can get there in time. *



Ah, so _you're_ the flying anti-magic man? Ok, you may have a point.  

And, honestly - I did play fair.  I didn't raid ITCK for anything other than the Psi Lich template, and only then because the standard lich was a required arcane/divine caster.  [Grumble.]  Not that I should complain, though, 'cause this one works better anyway.


----------



## Victim (Dec 7, 2002)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *Ah, so you're the flying anti-magic man? Ok, you may have a point.
> 
> And, honestly - I did play fair.  I didn't raid ITCK for anything other than the Psi Lich template, and only then because the standard lich was a required arcane/divine caster.  [Grumble.]  Not that I should complain, though, 'cause this one works better anyway. *




Yupe, that's me.  I thought it would be the best way to protect against super melee smackdowns, irrestible FR spells, and crap like Force Cage and Harm.  Of course, at the end of round 1, I've lost the most HP.  

In terms of balance, I think the psi-lich is pretty good.  So I don't really have a problem there.  Heck, the revised psion is fine by me too.  However, I would have prefered that the normal lich template be adapted for the psion, rather than using the special psi-lich template.  Because the templates grant substancially different powers, players without knowledge of the psionic lich are at a disadvantage, and, because the book with template isn't on the normal list, they wouldn't kow to look for it.

The psionic lich has Fast Healing and Power resistance, as well as slightly altered special attacks.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 7, 2002)

Psionic _anything_ worries me. I have just the basic books and know nothing of psionics. Fast healing, huh? That's nasty.

Has anyone found the little map useful? If anybody is interested, I could do one that shows everything for the end of this round.


----------



## Victim (Dec 7, 2002)

Yes, I like that map.  It helps so much to know the starting positions of characters.  The main maps don't track initial positions, so it's hard to track the motions of characters beyond general directions.

Psionics aren't that bad.  The best powers are little better than similar arcane spells.  They have some nifty tricks, but at the core, they have a wizard's spells/day with a sorcerer's spells known.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 7, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Psionics aren't that bad.  The best powers are little better than similar arcane spells.  They have some nifty tricks, but at the core, they have a wizard's spells/day with a sorcerer's spells known. *



Oh, I wouldn't say _that_... 



			
				Victim said:
			
		

> *In terms of balance, I think the psi-lich is pretty good. So I don't really have a problem there. Heck, the revised psion is fine by me too. However, I would have prefered that the normal lich template be adapted for the psion, rather than using the special psi-lich template. Because the templates grant substancially different powers, players without knowledge of the psionic lich are at a disadvantage, and, because the book with template isn't on the normal list, they wouldn't kow to look for it.*



Yeah, I can see the point - that's why I didn't mind tossing up a link for people who didn't know about it.  Only fair - and I wouldn't say that not knowing about it beforehand was a major advantage, because with all of Wizard's stuff being otherwise open, there's almost no way anyone would've prepared for all of it anyway.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 7, 2002)

I understand that psionics is balanced, but it still leaves with no real knowledge of what to expect at all. For instance, I have NO idea what kind of power these constructs represent. I'll worry about it when I have to. I have other fish to fry right now. Disobedient fish, at that.

Here's the map updated after all the player turns. There are five players visible on each half, but the second half seems so much more full with 7 constructs, 1 cohort and 3 animal companions also thrown in. Not to mention that on my half of the map, everyone visible is WAY spread out, except me and Zalilad.


----------



## Victim (Dec 7, 2002)

They are like Summoned Monsters, of the tank type.  They have a few customizeable powers, but are mostly melee creatures.  Check out www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd.html and look at psionic creatures near the bottom.


----------



## JDragon (Dec 7, 2002)

#47

Thanks for the updated map, its great to be able to get an over view and look at everyones location at once.

JDragon


----------



## Number47 (Dec 7, 2002)

Thanks for that link. I took a look at the creatures there, they don't seem all that tough. The abilities on the C chart are pretty good, but that requires the equivalent of some high-level spells to get. Much less worried.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 7, 2002)

A few things:

1. The psionic lich is on montecook.com somewhere. That is the only reason I allowed as I do not have the book it is printed in. If someone could link it, that would be great.

2. I would have posted top of round 2 today but i went out to celebrate my birthday. Whee.

3. I am keeping an archive of maps at the start of every round. But this map is very useful as well. 

4. Players, if you could write down your thoughts and commentary on the game as it progresses, it would be neat for me to have since I eventually play to create a site showing every turn as it progresses with my thoughts on every decision you guys are making and your contributions would really help. You can either email them to me as you write them out or save them up and send it to me when the game is finished. 

5. A preview of the top of round 2: 

One of the gods thinks that the overuse of haste, invisibility, and ioun stones is rather boring... 4 kobolds are teleported in the arena, 2 of whom are carrying long poles with nets at the end...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 7, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Thanks for that link. I took a look at the creatures there, they don't seem all that tough. The abilities on the C chart are pretty good, but that requires the equivalent of some high-level spells to get. Much less worried. *




I'm also allowing everything from the WOTC site. This includes a hefty psionic section.

http://www.wizards.com/dnd/main.asp?x=dnd/psi/welcome,3


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## Dalamar (Dec 7, 2002)

Here's a pretty quick scetch of my char.
Before he turned invisible, that is


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 7, 2002)

Ok top of round 2 has been posted.  http://www.slangdesign.com/battle


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## Johno (Dec 7, 2002)

C'mon on people; The DM's birthday! 

Sing to gether now:



> Happy Birthday to you,
> Happy Birthday to you,
> Happy Birthday dear DM,
> Happy Birthday to you




And now in Swedish!



> Ja må han leva,
> Ja må han leva,
> Ja må han leva uti hundrade år,
> Javisst ska han leva,
> ...




Happy Birthday wishes from  green slime!


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## Number47 (Dec 7, 2002)

I laughed my butt off about these kobolds! The "Ioun Stone Hunter" is great! Something tells me these may not be standard kobolds out of the book. Do we know what the radius of the Invisibility Purge is?


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## Dalamar (Dec 7, 2002)

I might as well write up the Finnish 'happy birthday'







> Paljon onnea vaan,
> Paljon onnea vaan,
> Paljon onnea clockwork,
> Paljon onnea vaan




BTW, which of the kobolds is which?


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## Berk (Dec 7, 2002)

Dude you shoulda told me yesterday? was your bday. Now I gotta kill all remaining decendents of Mordis(sp?) the 2nds. =op


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## reapersaurus (Dec 7, 2002)

I'm posting this because I now realize the palpable sense of fear and censorship your last "Gawd's" action have caused, clockwork.

umm, how do YOU GUYS (other players) feel about Clockwork's intervention in the game?

While his dismissal of your Dominate Person may have been within his bounds (If Zalilad took the "My Gawd Likes Me" advantage), this nabbing of Therron's ioun stone seems to me to be WAY out of line.

Secondarily, I can see why the Gawds wouldn't like Invisibility, but why would they not expect people to have Haste going, or Ioun stones?

I have been censoring myself, for reasons clockwork knows, and not airing what he has done to my character, on the hopes that it will stop.
But know I understand that noone playing currently can even speak freely now, or say anything remotely against you, because you can do anything you want to our characters in the Arena.

Do you guys like that, or feel that's appropriate for a Gladitorial contest between us players on the boards? (I don't for one second expect anyone to speak freely, but I had to air the concern anyway, since I'm fully anticipating Therron and Jade to have the bad things done to them continue unabated now.)


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## Berk (Dec 7, 2002)

> I'm posting this because I now realize the palpable sense of fear and censorship your last "Gawd's" action have caused, clockwork.
> 
> umm, how do YOU GUYS (other players) feel about Clockwork's intervention in the game?
> 
> ...




It's his game, and he is the "GAWDS". He said things like this might happen. Even when I DM and a character is using an ioun stone I usually go after them cuz they are easy targets and it really tics the players off to losed their precious ioun stones for even the slightest amount of time.

Besides, I wouldn't be worrying about what clockworkjoe does, but what other people will do. =o) Good luck =o)


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## Number47 (Dec 8, 2002)

Clockworkjoe did not "dismiss" my Domination of Zalilad. He merely suppressed it. I am POSITIVE that Zalilad has the "My Gawd Likes Me" advantage. I am also very sure that Zalilad will find himself under my control very soon. Extremely foolish for him to run at me like that.

I cannot speak for anyone else, but clockworkjoe hasn't screwed with my character one little bit. In fact, he approved it without needing to comment on anything at all.

He made it very clear at the beginning of the game that we would have to deal with the gods and their displeasures. I took that to mean that I shouldn't make a limited, one-dimensional character. I think it's a good thing, because otherwise there are certain themes that are FAR more powerful when used in a gladiatorial match then in a standard roleplaying game.


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## Terraism (Dec 8, 2002)

I agree with Number47 - though I've got a feeling that means I should remember not to let my constructs annoy the gods too much...


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## Victim (Dec 8, 2002)

Well, we were warned that the gods would intervene in the battle.  Also, you get points for killing the monsters - the kobold is within charge range for you reapersaurus, so you essentially get some free points.  Kill the creature, get the stone back, and net some points while you're at it.  

Finally, it seems that there's a table for the divine interventions, so he's not going to be acting just to screw one character he doesn't like.

Characters couldn't really plan for the terrain either.  I doubt Icitrik Ownsjoo really wants to be up on the cliff all that much, since he's a melee character.  These kobolds aren't much different from the Disjunction Fields and walls of fire in GoD 2, and will probably be easier to remove from the equation.


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## JDragon (Dec 8, 2002)

Well, since I'm part of the game I'll throw my 2 cents in to.

From what I have seen so for in the game, it is being run just as was described in the orig write-up.

I think the Kobold's with the nets is great and might have to steal those some time for a con game.

JDragon

AKA Harsel


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## reapersaurus (Dec 8, 2002)

well, again I'm in the situation where I can't say anything or it's perceived as being contrary, but ...

Berk - if all I had to worry about was the other characters, than I'm quite sure I would have dominated the game with my original character build.
But that wouldn't have been fun, for all concerned, and that's why I changed it without questioning (as clockwork demanded).

Victim: I'm not interested in gaining points by taking out hurdles that clockwork puts in the way, I want to take out characters. (no offense  )

Number47 - what you said unfortunately insinuated that Therron and Jade are one-dimensional characters, and/or that ioun stones can make someone too powerful? (I'm not saying you said that, I'm saying it read in that direction)

I don't know what exactly you mean by a "one-dimensional character", so it's hard to discuss.
Are you thinking that everyone's characters has a backstory and roleplaying reason to be in this Game?
Or do you mean one-dimensional, as in relying on one strategy?

For my situation, my characters have multi-pronged attacks and defenses, and the ioun stone is not a crucial aspect. It was a defense against what other people have described as kinda "cheesy spells"  that other people throw in these games.

Terraism- I'm quite sure that Therron and Jade did not annoy the Gawds - clockwork is pissed at ME, and is taking it out on my characters, and has been doing so for days now (with almost every aspect of the generation process).
If that's the last thing he does directly against my characters, I'd be shocked.
If he spreads out the punishment of the Gawds evenly, than I say "All for it!"
As for my characters displeasing the Gawds (assuming that it was random or in-character), they are worshipers of the GAWDS, very respectful, and gave reverance to the Pantheon with their first actions, and didn't turn invisible.
Hard to see why ioun stones of Therron's were targetted over anyone else's.  

As long as we in the game are clear about what things are In-Character, role-playing aspects, and what things are out-of-character, personal, non-random events, than that would be make me feel better.


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## Berk (Dec 8, 2002)

> Berk - if all I had to worry about was the other characters, than I'm quite sure I would have dominated the game with my original character build.
> But that wouldn't have been fun, for all concerned, and that's why I changed it without questioning (as clockwork demanded).




I am quite confident in my own gaming abilities to survive against anything. I have been doing that for almost 15 years now, 2/3rd's of my life. I personally would have welcomed your original character for the challenge if you say it is as good as it was. I am quite confident in my own abilities as a gamer and the abilities my character has to overcome it. Can't say I would 100%, but I wouldn't say it would be easy for your character. 



> Terraism- I'm quite sure that Therron and Jade did not annoy the Gawds - clockwork is pissed at ME, and taking it out on my characters, and has been doing so for days now (with almost every aspect of the generation process).
> If that's the last thing he does directly against my characters, I'd be shocked.
> If he spreads out the punishment of the Gawds evenly, than I say "All for it!"
> As for my characters displeasing the Gawds (assuming that it was random or in-character), they are worshipers of the GAWDS, very respectful, and gave reverance to the Pantheon with their first actions, and didn't turn invisible.
> Hard to see why ioun stones of Therron's were targetted over anyone else's.




Wether clockwork is pissed at you or not shouldn't put an impact on what is happening. You knew he had final say over what characters get in. If he had you recreate your character then there musta been something wrong with it that he, as the DM, having final say, found. If not then you know what, it doesn't matter cuz he is the DM. He decides what goes and what doesn't. Anyways, seeing the attack on your ioun stone as being personal is just childish and trivial at best.


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## Victim (Dec 8, 2002)

Well, based on your comment about keeping Theron between the lich and Jade, I figured you might be heading north anyway.  In that case, it would be a pretty trivial matter for you to drive by the poor kobold ioun stone hunter with a shield bash.

Icitrik Ownsjoo also had a stone targeted, but the kobold missed the attack.  Between Therron and Jade, you had the largest collection of ioun stones (5) on map 2, and Icitrik had the next largest (4).  A kobold equiped for stealing ioun stones appeared near each of you.  Coincidence?  

Finally, one of the emails I recieved when asking if I should send in a move right away, or wait to see what the gods do refered to a rolled event.  So I doubt that the Ioun stone hunters were made just to hinder you any more than the walking invisibility purge was made to hinder Vraketh.


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## Number47 (Dec 8, 2002)

Clockworkjoe, do you think you could include a clock function on the website. I have difficulty working out when someone's move is likely due because I don't know your time zone. The clock would help that immensely.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 8, 2002)

I am in central standard time (america). It is 12:55 AM as I type this. Does that help?

Also, about unfairness/acts of god etc. I have a list of events that can happen (each event can only happen once) and I add more items to the list anytime I think of them. This event is basically the "anti-buff" kobold squad. 1d6 kobolds appear, each of which is equipped to deal with 1 common type of buff; haste, invis, ioun stones, and flying. They are placed somewhere around a player with that type of buff/item and attempt to neutralize it. The ioun stone hunters ignore dull grey stones and try to get as many stones as possible. The invis purge guy is pretty clueless as he can't see invisible, he just purges invisibility. The snail is too slow witted to think coherently. 

You should also note that the invis purge/haste purge spells do not end when the kobolds die. It is also possible to talk/parley with the kobolds which may be more amusing to the gods than simply killing them. 

Other acts of God include anti-psionic smackdowns, anti anti magic fields, artifacts being thrown into the Arena, and of course, the lions being released.  These events are designed to test player adaptability and flexibility as well as throwing unpredictable events into the mix. Players can profit from these events if they are wise and the dice are with them.

As for Therron, since we are making this discussion public, I want to show my side of things. Reaper wanted me to allow a several things from OA even though the book is banned (and I am still allowing him several things from OA), and a combo using the spelldancer prestige class to cast a level 22 spell among other things (a 10x empowered level 2 spell). When I realized how unfair this is to the other players, I banned the spelldancer class.  There were also several minor issues with Therron. However, I am allowing his revised character in without the spelldancer class. My goal is to ensure that each character is approximately CR 15-17 as CR is a better way to determine combat ability than anything else in 3E D&D IMHO. I don't have a personal grudge against Therron, but to be fair to him, I am a bit peeved at him for trying to bring the spelldancer class (which is as broken as the harm spell) in the game. And I personally think that using two shields to fight is stupid. But I won't kick anyone out of the game except under extreme circumstances. I want to have fun running this game. I am not here to punish, humiliate, or provide power trips/munchkin ego boosts to anyone. 

Will my personal opinions affect how I run the game? I say it won't. You can believe that or not, I don't really care. All I really do is roll the dice and process everyone's actions. If you think about it, the players are really running this game. Do my personal biases affect the game? Probably a little, but I won't make anyone lose or win because of what I think of that person. I only know one of the players in real life and I am certainly not giving him any special favors.  Therron's character was one of the only non grey ioun stone holders without an army of servants. Icitirk was the other. Could I have chosen someone other than Therron? Maybe. Maybe not. There is no way I can prove to anyone on here that one way or the ohter. And in the end, this is my game and I will run it as I see fit. I don' t like being second guessed. 

I think that covers everyhting


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## Number47 (Dec 8, 2002)

I think it got lost in the scuffle. I had asked if we know what the radius of the invisibility purge is? If it is according to book, it's huge!


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## reapersaurus (Dec 8, 2002)

Berk said:
			
		

> * *I am quite confident in my own gaming abilities to survive against anything.
> 
> *Wether clockwork is pissed at you or not shouldn't put an impact on what is happening.
> 
> *Anyways, seeing the attack on your ioun stone as being personal is just childish and trivial at best. *



*I knew someone would take my statement personally. 
I'm sorry - I was just paraphrasing clockwork's reasoning for denying all versions of Jade that included Spelldancer levels. He said it would dominate, not me. I was not intending an attack on your skill as a player, or down-playing any of your guys' entries in this contest. 
On the contrary : I've been fairly terrified of your guys' characters and what they could do, which is why I tried to bring as powerful of offense to bear against them (and I wanted to start out the Game with a quick-strike, to enhance the excitement).
Please know I meant no disrespect to you personally by saying anything about our characters (they are just characters, right?) 

*I agree that clockwork's feelings about me personally shouldn't impact my characters, however it has. 
The ioun stone is the last in a long list of clockwork's actions.
I could list them, if asked, but clockwork- I've been fighting myself like hell to not list them (and I haven't aired almost anything publicly - that was in the post I scrapped.)

*If I listed all the (personally abusive) things he's said to me in emails, I think most people would agree it's become personal.
To not conclude the Gawd's actions as a personal attack on me would be unrealistic at best and ignorant at worst.
Out of the big list of what could have happened, see what was thrown in. 

Victim - as clockwork revealed, Jade's ioun stones were decoys - dull grey ones. (included in character sheet for fun - ironically, I never even mentioned she would have them up.)
So Therron only had one real stone.
There are 6 characters with one or more stones on them (Saephiroth has SIX?!). 
The chances of it being random are getting pretty extreme. 

Clockwork - While the idea of having the Gawds interfere is cool, and I DID like the imaginative use of the Croc Hunter schtick, don't you admit your action would have been perceived as hostile to me?
(bunch of detail deleted)

So clockwork, I guess you could enter my last few posts into your file on our "thoughts and commentary on the game as it progresses".  LOL 

The reason I asked what the other players thought about it, is because I realized that IF anyone perceived the "Gawd's" actions as retributive, than an air of oppresiveness would have crept in, for me.
If you are open to discussing things about the Tournament you're hosting,  I think that leads to getting more out of it for all concerned in the long run.
Your request for people's impressions seems to point out that you are...

P.S. Clockwork - what do you mean, Therron and Icitirk were the only non-grey iounstone holders without an army of servants?
I count Tobias with 2, Saeph with 6, and Ancryx with 1 (but he's got the army). Are the others all grey? I'm confused... (which, for me, is probably par for the course...)


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 8, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I think it got lost in the scuffle. I had asked if we know what the radius of the invisibility purge is? If it is according to book, it's huge! *




Sorry, 15 foot radius for both. I didn't want to make the kobolds too powerful.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 8, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *tl;dr *




Tobias is 75 feet in the air. Sepiroth is invisible.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 8, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Tobias is 75 feet in the air. Sepiroth is invisible. *



Sooooo..... the gods complain about hasting, invisibility, and ioun stones, so they go after a combatant that has only one ioun stone, and is not invisible?

That seems kind of strange that you would have your Gawds use kobolds who can't see invisible or fly do the job.  

Maybe they should look further down on the resumes to make sure they're qualified for the job(s) they're hired to do.   (Hera: "Zeus! I thought I told you to stop using that bargain-rate "Rent-a-Kobold" outlet!")


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## Victim (Dec 8, 2002)

Dull gray ones huh.  I'm betting that Saepiroth also has some dull gray ones too.  My brother created a character with 5 burned out stones painted to match his Pale Green stone - since ioun stones are rather vulnerable, he wanted to protect his powerful one with decoys.

In any case, it would be rather hard for kobolds to reach Sep or Tobias, unless someone wants to buff them with Blindsight or Fly.  I can't really see that happening, unless someone has spells to burn and wants to be annoying.

It's kind of funny that you couldn't use your original character design.  I looked at the Sultans of Smack thread and most importantly, the SMACK! character writeups in rogue's gallery and saw the spelldancer stuff there.  Those are some outrageous characters!!!  Because of those characters, I scrapped my original designs and created my current character.  The only other build that I thought stood a chance in that environment had 2 rings of 9 lives, so that he'd have to be killed 19 times.

EDIT:  How much do kobolds weigh?  Maybe we could throw them to reach the flying guy.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 8, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I only know one of the players in real life and I am certainly not giving him any special favors.*



Really? What player do you know IRL?


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 8, 2002)

I won't say who I know until the game is over so no one is biased towards anyone else. 

Each kobold is geared to to counter 1 type of buff, and is not able to handle anything else. Hell, the invis purge guy can't even see invisible. The gods are in this for their amusement, so throwing in minmaxed kobolds wouldn't be as fun as doing what they did. 

I did not roll any anti flying guys, but they are basically cowboys with lassos. 

Kobolds weigh 50 pounds soaking wet.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 8, 2002)

clockwork - I think it's a fair question.
Who do you know that is playing in the game?
For you to be protecting people from biases is quite a slap in the face to me, wouldn't you agree?

After what you (in the form of the Gawds) and Martok just combined to pull on Therron, I deserve to know if Martok happens to be the guy you know in real life.

Would you guys agree about that (the players that have noticed)?

Ironically, here's a quote from the email I sent to a 'teammate' after you pulled the 'ioun stone Hunter' move:


> I'm fully anticipating that he is in collusion with another player or 2 and they will take advantage of some weakness that he will let them know about before this is thru.
> The ioun stone is a setup for that, I wager.


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## Victim (Dec 9, 2002)

It wouldn't have to be coordinated for someone to attack you after you lost the stone.  Pouncing on a character that's been weakened in some way is an easy way to get a kill.  And when when you specifically state the Ioun stone is a defense against cheap spells, then what better method of attack than with one of the cheap spells for which you just lost your counter.  Also, given your known fondness for paladins, I assumed that your character had astronomical saves, enough to fend off min maxed, FR powered super high DC spells.  No save spells are a good tactic in general, and especially against the character types that you've mentioned a preference for on these boards.  

And I thought Martok's method of avoiding fighting Therron and Jade at the same time was pretty good.

However, I'd like to know who clockworkjoe knows too.


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## Terraism (Dec 9, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *It wouldn't have to be coordinated for someone to attack you after you lost the stone.  Pouncing on a character that's been weakened in some way is an easy way to get a kill...*



Have to give him that, Reaper - I was certainly looking forward to attacking you a little heavier now that that stone was gone, too... actually, I'm a little annoyed at Martok just for the fact that now I'm worried about someone I can't see... nuts.  Ah, well.  Stinks that those ion stones of your henchman are duds, though... I was expecting a small feast.  

[Note, all this is assuming I could have killed your character.  I'd like to think so, of course, but... we'll have to wait and see, for that.  I wouldn't want... nah, I'll let that come up later.]


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## reapersaurus (Dec 9, 2002)

Look, if it's not clear enough what clockwork did, let me be clear - I'm not one for secrecy, and if someone can't stand being honest and up front about their actions, than maybe they should rethink why.
clockwork's actions as arbitrator of this match should be able to pass whatever light is beamed on them - if he has to rely on back-door dealings, or glossing over events, than that's a big warning sign, I would think.

It's not like my character's strengths are hard to figure out : As people already publicized, I'm using a 2-shield Smackdown method with a cohort. I used Divine Shield, Divine Might, Lion's Pounce, and Spikes to get lots of damage on a charge, as well as Paladin to get high saves.
Or at least I would have liked to use Paladin, but clockwork nerfed that and made me waste levels by using the weaker OA Shaman class to substitute.

Look, I'm already getting off-topic.
If someone's not putting 2 and 2 together yet, I'll make it clear as day:

I sent a powerful character that included the Spelldancer, that gave Therron Persistent Spell Turning, Flying and True Seeing. (among other things)
He could have attacked anyone first turn and probably hit.
Clockwork nerfed that, and many other things (see below).

So Jade was eunuched (her power was, at least LOL).
So I put in an ioun stone with Disintegrate in it specifically to prevent the cheesy Forcecage.
Lo and behold, the Gawd's themselves removed Therron's defense. Then a player casts Forcecage & Maze before Therron's initiative.

Do I have to draw a map for anyone?
If it wasn't so transparent, it might be appreciatable.

The disappointing part is, if Clockwork was going to do all this nerfing of my completely correct by the rules character, and then pull the kobold-Hunter trick, why did he bother letting me play?
If he was so afraid of my character dominating, why wouldn't he just have the balls and say "Sorry, reaper - you brought in too strong of character to the Tournament. You can't play this time."

To manufacture this makes you look cheap, clockwork, and I'm sure you're better than that most of the time, but it's unfortunate that you felt you had to protect the others and your Game, from my diabolically Evil power-character that apparently noone could stop (oh - they stopped him in 1 round, that's right).

Let me detail, in public now, what he did to my character, and let you decide about things - maybe I'm off my rocker here, but it seems pretty clear to me... :

(excerpted from the now-attached original post I hadn't sent, out of respect for Clockwork's privacy)
Nerf #1) After 16 replies, he changed the rules on the SpellDancer PrC to weaken it. He also changed the "Help in the Corner" advantage to not allow cohorts to cast spells on combatants. So I spent hours re-vamping the character and re-submitted it.
Nerf #2) After re-submittal, he removed the SpellDancer entirely, requiring another costly re-vamp.
Nerf #3)Clockwork said in an email, "3. It's stupid to think that you get to benefit from two different types of rage/frenzy at the same time. Also, rage/frenzy is a mind affecting effect and once you enter in one type of rage, you can't benefit from another. "
Nerf #4) He denied the use of the Singh Rager unless I took away the level of Paladin and Cleric I included in the original build.
So I re-worked it with AkodoChampion and Shaman (the OA cleric).
He later said that it was stupid to use 2 elite PrC's (SinghRager and Akodo).
So I changed it to all Shaman and 1 level of Sohei (holy fighter-monk).
(He later turned around and said that I was including all this OA stuff. The only OA stuff other than SinghRager, Sohei, and Remove Fatigue I've added was because of him denying me rules.)
Nerf #5) He denied the use of the Contemplative PrC for Jade (she wouldn't satisfy the role-playing requirement).
Nerf #6) He denied the use of the Madness domain, although it explicitly allows it as a Domain of Olympic Pantheoon clerics in Deities & Demigods, page 101.
Nerf #7) He didn't allow 2 Arms of Nyr to be used. He later changed the rules on it, saying the Arm's bonuses were enhancement bonuses, so they wouldn't stack with Bull's Strength or Cat's Grace.
Nerf #8) He didn't allow Iajutsu Focus to be used with shields, although it's completely by the rules (completely stupid, IMO, but by the rules).

I took all those denying of rules to me completely in stride, and wrote many times that this is His Game, and if he felt that what I included would hurt his Game, than I'll change my character. I never fought him on the removals, and I agree with a couple of them.
Using his own words, I DID "prove (him)and the others wrong. And don't whine about how I should have told you earlier that I wasn't going to allow this or that. "
NOW I'll criticise clockwork for not telling me earlier. He could have saved me 20 hours of MY time if he had just denied the super-powerful (broken, IMO) SpellDancer PrC straight out.

But the straw that broke this camel's back was when clockwork at the end of Round 1 made up that Divine Might was an enhancement bonus, and that Spikes (3rd level Defenders of the Faith spell) is an enhancement bonus to DAMAGE (therefore not stacking with Divine Shield and totally negating Therron's effectiveness).
That's Nerf #9 and 10, and that's more than I can take at purposely weakening my character to the point that he can't compete.
However, I said nothing about it, other than to question him on the rules source, and quoting that the rules do not say what he is saying (not to mention that EVERYONE plays them not as enhancement bonuses - oh yeah, "I don't care what other people who didn't design the game think about it." is what he said. Nice.)
________________________

So unfortunately for everyone involved (including you guys), clockwork did NOT prove me wrong, in not letting his biases get in the way of the Game.
To quote clockwork, he thinks the style of fighting I used is "Fu**ing stupid."

Ces't la vie - it looked like a fun game, and I absolutely love these power-gaming challenges, but it looks like my entries are not desired, and I can't play in a straight-up fair fight with other great players on these boards.
I was looking forward to mixing it up with you guys - have a good battle, and make sure not to upset Clockwork.


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## Number47 (Dec 9, 2002)

I think the reason that Martok attacked you is because nobody likes a whiner. I would have done it myself if you weren't so far away and me with my hands full already.

Note that if there was some sort of "collusion" to deny you your Disintegrate ioun stone, why did Martok lock the kobold in with you? Heck, he INSURED that it's available when you exit the Maze. Secondly, I would have laughed my butt off if somebody had Mazed me. Keep me nice and safe and cozy for 10 minutes, unable to be harmed? Sign me up!

You're looking for trouble where there isn't any. Grow up. Stop ruining our fun. Get with it and play, or forfeit now. Nobody wants to hear your sad-sob story about how clockworkjoe only allowed you a very powerful character and not a godlike-powerful character.

The only thing I can say in your defense is that clockworkjoe is not (in my impression) any kind of rules lawyer. He makes judgements that, by the book, may be technically wrong occasionally. That may have happened to you. But it is his game, he's the DM and you don't hassle the DM. You play by his rules, even if the book says differently.

Me, I would have disallowed you the entire OA once again even after he already made a special exception for you. Yeah, that's right. Remember? He made an EXCEPTION for you. Nobody else got to use OA. But you took his good graces and tossed it back at him because you can't play nice with others.

Gah. Maybe a mod should delete this post. I am getting too personal.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 9, 2002)

hey, you're entitled to your opinion.


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## Victim (Dec 9, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I think the reason that Martok attacked you is because nobody likes a whiner. I would have done it myself if you weren't so far away and me with my hands full already.*





I thought about it too, but you have Haste as (Ex) and had a partner, so I decided it was too high risk.



> *Note that if there was some sort of "collusion" to deny you your Disintegrate ioun stone, why did Martok lock the kobold in with you? Heck, he INSURED that it's available when you exit the Maze. Secondly, I would have laughed my butt off if somebody had Mazed me. Keep me nice and safe and cozy for 10 minutes, unable to be harmed? Sign me up!.*





The problem is that someone (Martok) can take out the cohort while he's gone.  However, you have either 10 minutes of complete safety, or about a 1 minute if you hurry back.  In theory, you may even cast relatively short duration buffs while in the Maze, allowing you to use your 1 and 10 minute per level spells.  However, skipping the first couple of minutes keeps you safe during the most dangerous parts of the game.  Look at the previous matches.  Varsus spent most of the time trapped behind a wall of force and Sigmund hid in obscuring mist.  Having the stone trapped inside the cage with you works to your advantage as well.




> *The only thing I can say in your defense is that clockworkjoe is not (in my impression) any kind of rules lawyer. He makes judgements that, by the book, may be technically wrong occasionally. That may have happened to you. But it is his game, he's the DM and you don't hassle the DM. You play by his rules, even if the book says differently.
> 
> Me, I would have disallowed you the entire OA once again even after he already made a special exception for you. Yeah, that's right. Remember? He made an EXCEPTION for you. Nobody else got to use OA. But you took his good graces and tossed it back at him because you can't play nice with others.*





While I think a number of rulings regarding reaper's character were in error, I can see why he nerfed your character.  When the allowed materials are clearly stated, I think it's a bit rude to ask for an exception because there's some classes ripe for abuse in there.  It's also a bit unfair to other players, because they'd develop expectations based on what books are allowed and design characters accordingly.  For example, in a core rules game, I'd think +30 saves were a great defense, and count on them to defend my character against most magical attacks.  However, if FR materials were allowed, I'd have very different expectations and would either find ways to increase them or alternate defenses because +30 isn't sufficient against red wizard archmages and the like.  So if I was playing in what I thought was a core game and counting on my +30 saves, but someone was using FR stuff, I'd be screwed.  Similarly, OA changes the expectations of melee damage output.  How fair is it for characters designed to deal with relatively normal melee damage to be suddenly thrust into the scary world of Pounce attacks and Iajitsu whatsits.  

And why would Jade meet the roleplaying requirement for Contemplative?  Characters need to spend their special advantage to qualify for the roleplaying requirements of PrCs.  You spent the advantage to get a cohort that can fight with you, so you don't have it to use for Jade's PrC requirements.  

See:


> *a. The character qualifies for any Prestige class that requires a special roleplaying background such as contacting an outsider, finding a secret treasure
> etc. *





Persistent Flying and Trueseeing are illegal, because those spells have a range of touch.

I thought Iajitsu Focus had to be used when quickdrawing a weapon?  You can't really quickdraw shields.  But I don't have OA so I'm not sure.  

But I can see how his rulings on the Divine Feats would be rather unfair.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 9, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Look, if it's not clear enough what clockwork did, let me be clear - I'm not one for secrecy, and if someone can't stand being honest and up front about their actions, than maybe they should rethink why.
> clockwork's actions as arbitrator of this match should be able to pass whatever light is beamed on them - if he has to rely on back-door dealings, or glossing over events, than that's a big warning sign, I would think.
> 
> It's not like my character's strengths are hard to figure out : As people already publicized, I'm using a 2-shield Smackdown method with a cohort. I used Divine Shield, Divine Might, Lion's Pounce, and Spikes to get lots of damage on a charge, as well as Paladin to get high saves.
> ...




too long, didn't read.

edit to say, I am sick of dealing with this issue. I generally trusted everyone who sent in characters that they weren't trying any stupid smackdown exploit or similar stuff.  Reaper abused that trust and I don't care what hardships he had to endure to get his still extremely powerful character in the game.  I am through reading about it or trying to appease him. 

I still don't have an anccurate list of what spells Jade cast on Therron either.


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## JDragon (Dec 9, 2002)

Iajitsu Focus - Can only be used if the person being attacked is flat footed and you attack immediately after drawing a weapon. (does not define what "drawing" a weapon in considered)

So its generally only good once per combat in the first round.

The DM of my current OA campaign has allowed it for most melee weapons, but they have to be in thier non-ready state and you have to have quick draw or pull it as you charge.

JDragon


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## reapersaurus (Dec 9, 2002)

What does it really matter, clockwork, about Jade's spells?

All I wanted was to Smack somebody straight out the gate and throw some excitement in your Game, since IMO most Games rely too much on insta-death or no-save spells, and boring tactics like invisibility and hiding out (no offense to any player who chose that as a tactic - that's my opinion.)

You got what you wanted - my characters out of the way, by a multitude of actions in-and-out of game.

I don't view being flung into a Maze a Good Thing, even if it helps Therron to survive. I wanted to have fun mixing it up, but poor me, wahh waahhh...

Victim - you all heard me ask for one thing from OA - Singh Rager. That's it.
I'm just shocked that clockwork considered me abusing trust while there's a flying anti-magic guy with apparently Gnomish Atrificer gadgets flouting the magic rules.
Or a psionic lich with an entire chapter of the SRD dedicated to custom rules for it.

I agree with you on one thing, clockwork - I'm tired of the whole thing, too, and burnt out on the entire experience.
I'm sorry I tried to make a powerful character to bring into the Game so I could win - I thought that's what the point was.

Seriously, everyone - hope you all get a good Smack in on someone. Have a good one.


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## Terraism (Dec 9, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Or a psionic lich with an entire chapter of the SRD dedicated to custom rules for it.*



Ok, I should probably drop it, and I'm sure Reaper's not coming back to the thread, but I seriously don't have a clue what he means by this one - anyone who picked up on it, could you be a friend and explain it to me?


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## Dr Midnight (Dec 9, 2002)

edit: Never mind.


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## Victim (Dec 9, 2002)

My gnome gadgets follow the rules perfectly.  MaoF states that all of the powers except for the shadow weave ones work in antimagic areas.  I'm not using Shadow Weave powers.  I'm really feeling the lack of haste.  And since gadgets cost signficantly more than similar magic items with a price of 2k x spell level x caster level for a 50 charge device that takes up a space, I'm paying alot for some low level spells.

And I'm think that in terms of raw mechanics, including my excellent AMF+fly defense, my character isn't broken, for reaons that hopefully won't occur.  If you quit or die, then I'll send you my character - unless I die first, in which case I'll post it.


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## Berk (Dec 9, 2002)

You were ripe for the pickins. We started out close to each other, then you got hurt a bit. I didn't know a damn thing about you and would have cast force cage and then maze on you even if I did know that that ioun stone contains disint. It was gonna happen no matter what, even if you had your original character in there. You might have been able to get out easier, but that's about it. And for god sakes it's a freaking game. Go hit puberty already and act like an adult. Crap happens in life, just be glad it happened in a game and not in the real world.


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## Johno (Dec 9, 2002)

I just knew this was going to happen the minute I saw that Reapersaurus was in the game.

Reapersaurus, you kicked up a huge stink last time you were in a Game of Death, with Dr Midnight as the DM.

When I read about your stupid smackdowns, and the way you wrangled in OA stuff...wtf???? That is SO out of line with the guidelines... A psionic Lich is in NO WAY comparable to the stupid stacking attempts you tried. The long list of complaints about Clockworkjoe making sensible rulings about obvious powergaming attempts...Sheesh dude, have some faith in the DM...after all, HE is rolling ALL the Dice.

I really don't think you got a clue. ITS THE DM's JOB TO MODIFY THE RULES TO SUIT HIS GAME. If some whacked out game designer misses the obvious and writes a game effect that lets Arms of Nyr stack with Bull's Strength or, Animal Affinity and Bull's Strength, or Cloak of Charisma and Armour of Command, THEN I AM VERY GLAD THAT THE DM NOTICES SUCH TRITE BULL AND NERFS IT!!!!

Clockworkjoe, you have my every confidence.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 9, 2002)

1. I am allowing him his +49 to damage since my previous ruling is on shaky ground.

2. I only disallowed the madness domain to LAWFUL GOOD characters. 

3. I only disallowed paladin/clerics if he used anything from OA since OA does not allow paladins or clerics. 

4. I don't think his fighting style is stupid. I think anyone who fights with two shields is stupid. It doesn't make sense thematically. I can not picture a warrior honestly thinking that running around with two shields is a good idea. 

5. I find it really really funny that reaper is the almighty rules lawyer god when it comes to rules that don't favor him like the +damage issue  but is curiously ignorant of facts like that fly and true seeing can not be made presisent. I didn't even catch that as I was too preoccupied with some other things.


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## Twinswords (Dec 9, 2002)

Clockwork joe do you count divine might as an enchanment bonus? Or do you count it as an unnamed (possibly divine) bonus? And which colour kobold is what?

Twinswords


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 9, 2002)

Twinswords said:
			
		

> *Clockwork joe do you count divine might as an enchanment bonus? Or do you count it as an unnamed (possibly divine) bonus? And which colour kobold is what?
> 
> Twinswords *




unnamed so it stacks with everything. 

Look at the file name. hunter.gif = ioun stone hunter

invis.gif = invis purge 

snail.gif =haste purge


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## Number47 (Dec 10, 2002)

I have a question about the stone cliff. Are those squares supposed to be flat ground 200 feet above the surrounding squares, or do the squares themselves represent the slope of the cliff?

I kinda wonder of Icitrik is stuck, like a kitten in a tree. I doubt it, actually.

When are the purging kobolds going to act? They've delayed their initiatives almost the entire round now!


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## Victim (Dec 10, 2002)

He's just staying up there because it's a pain to reach him.  He's on a team, so even if he had no way to getting down safely himself, Tobias or Saepiroth could help him out.  Assuming they don't get killed first.

I assumed that they were flat, but 200 ft up.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 10, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I have a question about the stone cliff. Are those squares supposed to be flat ground 200 feet above the surrounding squares, or do the squares themselves represent the slope of the cliff?
> 
> I kinda wonder of Icitrik is stuck, like a kitten in a tree. I doubt it, actually.
> 
> When are the purging kobolds going to act? They've delayed their initiatives almost the entire round now! *




The cliff is a great big rectangle, 200 ft high. The cliff walls are parallel to the ground. 

Anyone at the top of the cliff can jump down into the water for no damage (50 foot deep water at the bottom and my house rules)

They only appeared at the beginning of this round, and they will act when they figure out what to do. Unlike the hunters, the purge kobolds have no goals other than survival.


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## Victim (Dec 10, 2002)

Yes, but I wonder how many characters have Swim?  No sense jumping into the water to prevent falling damage only to drown.


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## Bhaal (Dec 10, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I'm sorry I tried to make a powerful character to bring into the Game so I could win - I thought that's what the point was. *









I don't know about you guys, but I'm here to have a good fight and have fun (and maybe win if I'm lucky), not play "who can find the most broken combo loophole".  Sure we're all pretty powerful and minmaxed, but there's making a powerful/minmaxed character, and then there's bickering, arguing and whining with the DM to make an insanely/stupidly powerful character.  You complain about people going invis and trying to instant-kill everybody and that being boring.  What's more boring than a one-trick smackdown pony?  At the least they are using strategy and tactics on the battlefield, not just relying on some insanely broken exception in the rules to win the game for them as they go bonking people on the head with shields.

Clockwork's doing a superb job handling all the logistics of running this as well as keeping it cool when people start throwing around allegations of him being in cahoots with other PCs and generally trying to turn this into a soap opera.


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## DispelAkimbo (Dec 10, 2002)

Bhaal said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't know about you guys, but I'm here to have a good fight and have fun (and maybe win if I'm lucky), not play "who can find the most broken combo loophole".  Sure we're all pretty powerful and minmaxed, but there's making a powerful/minmaxed character, and then there's bickering, arguing and whining with the DM to make an insanely/stupidly powerful character.  You complain about people going invis and trying to instant-kill everybody and that being boring.  What's more boring than a one-trick smackdown pony?  At the least they are using strategy and tactics on the battlefield, not just relying on some insanely broken exception in the rules to win the game for them as they go bonking people on the head with shields. *




I'm not actually in the game, but as a spectator this ^ is exactly what i'd like to see.

Sure, those smackdowns are fun to read about in the right thread, but this is not the time or place.  This thread to me seems to be about having a good fight and some fun.

I only hope that no-one resorts to unfair play and then uses the old excuse of 'my char is evil so its what they would do'.

P.S. I thought the rules clearly stated no OA stuff?  I dont have that book and cant check up on things clearly.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 10, 2002)

DispelAkimbo said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I'm not actually in the game, but as a spectator this ^ is exactly what i'd like to see.
> 
> ...




What do you mean by unfair play?

And yes, OA is banned. I made an exception for reaper.


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 10, 2002)

I think you should just have Ares stand up(be sure to describe him as looking like Kevin Tod Smith, the (now deceased) actor who played Ares on Hercules and Xena) and just nuke reapersaurus for being an ingrate.  Just my opinion.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 10, 2002)

Bhaal said:
			
		

> *I don't know about you guys, but I'm here to have a good fight and have fun (and maybe win if I'm lucky), not play "who can find the most broken combo loophole".  Sure we're all pretty powerful and minmaxed, but there's making a powerful/minmaxed character, and then there's bickering, arguing and whining with the DM to make an insanely/stupidly powerful character. *



Hey, you guys are complaining - so does that make you guys "whiners" too?
At least I did it factually and objectively stating events that happened, and let the reader come to his own conclusions based on the facts - I'm not deliberately misrepresenting things like Bhall here.

Hey, Bhall - did you read anything, or just make up what happened?
I made this clear already, but I'll state it again for people who have gum in their ears, or who just would rather remember it wrong:

Check out my list: I didn't argue or complain about the multitude of things clockwork did (regardless of how much it cost me) until he made up that Divine Might and Spikes didn't stack with Divine Shield.
That's not even close to what you're making up, so I'd prefer that you stop poking when it's not applicable, since I can't even clarify incorrect and slanderous statements without someone calling me a whiner who can't let it go or faulting me for bringing it up.

If anyone has issue with any denial on my list (except the Contemplative. - remember - I agreed with clockwork on a few of them), they are welcome to email me.

Bhaal, my character is certainly not insanely overpowerful (never was, in comparison to the power that's out there right now), and I never asked for anything special for my character beyond the Singh Rager, and that everyone heard from the beginning. I'm not the only one that has exceptions (psionic lich, etc), and i'm fairly certain that there are more than a couple characters in this contest currently that couldn't stand up to nearly the rules attention that's been paid to mine.

As for "trying to have a good fight, have fun, and win", you're no different in that regard.
I'd wager that most of us are "pretty powerful and minmaxed".
My final character version isn't even minmaxed completely, after all the removals, etc. I kinda ran out of time in my life.

blackshirt5 - *edited by request*, I too think that Kevin Smith is a MUST for the Ares character.


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 10, 2002)

* Deleted by moderator for offensiveness *


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## Terraism (Dec 10, 2002)

C'mon, people - we all know better than that.  We can still hate one another, s'long as we do it politely.


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## Berk (Dec 10, 2002)

I'm gonna beat a dead horse here some more.

Divine Might and Divine Shield are both standard actions to activate.

Divine Spikes, got no clue what that is from or what it does.

Bottome line who gives 2 flying f's about it anymore, the point is mute. So what if you didn't like the fact that clockwork didn't want an obviously broken character in here. He could have said no once and that was it. You keep complaining about spending so much time on making a character. Well that isn't anyones fault but your own. You knew he had final say and you didn't have to keep making new ones if you didn't want to. I'm sure he didn't hold a gun to your head and demand of you to make a new character.


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## Berk (Dec 10, 2002)

And there is no need for any of this bull blackshirt and reaper. Act like mature adults even if you aren't, this is public.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 10, 2002)

oh, yeah - like I'm the aggressor here.  
fine. 
 *points to bs *
 HE STARTED IT!  

And Divine Might has been clarified as a free action.

edit: And it's just Spikes, not Divine Spikes (that sounds painful)

and the point is moot, not mute.  (I wish it could be mute, but I won't turn my cheek to THAT crap.)

edit #2 : blackshirt - I'll kindly request that you not include my dad, or vulgarity in this. I should not have to explain why.


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## Berk (Dec 10, 2002)

> And Divine Might has been clarified as a free action.




It has? Where?

Divine Might is a Divine Feat and there for follows the rules for Divine Feats, ie.. Since turning/rebuking undead is a standard action then so is activating any divine feat that uses turn/rebuke attempts. Seems clear enough to me without having to clarify it at all.




> and the point is moot, not mute. (I wish it could be mute, but I won't turn my cheek to THAT crap.)




And it is mute, not moot, cuz noone seems to be listening, it isn't moot because there is no unsettled question here.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 10, 2002)

Berk said:
			
		

> * It has? Where?*



FAQ, specific section on DotF.


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## Victim (Dec 10, 2002)

Yep.


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## Berk (Dec 10, 2002)

Still not all that strong anyway since if ya wanna talk smackdowns a standard action is big. Being left with only a move in a round isn't much, barring haste of course, but then again, that's only one attack.


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## Jeremy (Dec 10, 2002)

Wow.  Brutal in here..


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## LGodamus (Dec 10, 2002)

hmmmmmmmmmmm.....its almost like I walked into a barfight....


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## Jeremy (Dec 10, 2002)

*smacks Laocorn with a bar stool before he can go all freaked out God of War*

I just didn't like the glint in his eye...


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## reapersaurus (Dec 11, 2002)

Berk said:
			
		

> *Still not all that strong anyway since if ya wanna talk smackdowns a standard action is big. Being left with only a move in a round isn't much, barring haste of course, but then again, that's only one attack. *



Ya, I agree, it's not all that strong when compared to 8th level no-save spells being thrown about, but IF you can get your CHA save up high enough (like clockwork was afraid that I'd done with the Spelldancer), it can put a big hurt on someone IF you can engage them in melee (IF they're not too far away), IF they don't have protection around them, etc.

Hmm..  lotta IF's.


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## Bhaal (Dec 11, 2002)

I'm willing to bet that your character threw up more exceptions that clockwork had to moderate than all the characters combined.  That suggests one of two things: 1) Clockwork has it out for you or 2) your character's intent simply didn't fit with his guidelines.  Now before you start jumping on a certain option above, trying to insinuate again that clockwork and his mistery IRL friend are obviously in cahoots and only set this whole thing up to mess with you, consider how far you pushed it:

1) Your entire character was a smackdown exploit

Don't deny it.  Sure smackdown characters are interesting to read and fun to discover, but they're the antithesis of fun when put in an actual game.

2) You continuously pulled materials from off-limit sources.

Here's a hint: put the OA book down.  You got one PrC out of there, and kept pushing the issue and adding more and more stuff from it.  Don't start pointing fingers at other exceptions, because at least those people knew when to draw the line.

And finally quit belly aching over the fact that you're not the most powerful player out there.  Quit whining about how there's probably other players who are more powerful and "couldn't stand up to such rules attention", you simply don't know that.  And the only way you're backing up this assumption is by suggesting that clockworkjoe has something personal against you.  That's an awfully serious accusation, and if you honestly feel that way then my question to you is why are you even playing?


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## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

It doesn't look to me like reapersaurus is still ringing that bell Bhaal.  

Besides, he's already been chastised quite vigorously.  No gasoline on the fire right as it's dying.


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## Victim (Dec 11, 2002)

Actually, I think old definition Smackdown characters are kind of expected.  200 points of damage isn't exactly all that tough by level 15.  Is a rogue that uses 2 weapon fighting, haste, and expert tactician really all that abusive?  If a wizard throws 3 good attack spells, is that an exploit?  Not really.  It's only the ones that greatly exceed 300 and can be used all the time that worry me.  Some of the psion Body fuel ones are amusing, because the character has crippled himself to do it.  

BTW, I was wandering on what people think of using the metagame knowledge in this thread to influence combat actions.  For example, I imagine many people could find a use for a Disentegrate spell, which is apparently in reapersaurus's Ioun Stone.  

And I think my character might have done passably well against reaper's original monstrousity.  It probably would have been incredibly boring for awhile, though.


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## Piratecat (Dec 11, 2002)

Cut the insults, folks, as of right now. Reapersaurus, your comment to Blackshirt is completely inappropriate, and you know it. Please edit it out.  Blackshirt, I edited out your entire post; one more like that, and you're looking at taking a vacation from the boards. You guys know perfectly well what's permissable here, and you should know enough to click on the "report a post to a moderator" button when someone gets insulting.

This erupts again, and the thread gets closed. Don't cause that to happen.


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## Number47 (Dec 11, 2002)

Wow. I am away from my computer for the day and I miss all the juicy bits! I think the fights in here are going even better than the arena!


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## Berk (Dec 11, 2002)

> Wow. I am away from my computer for the day and I miss all the juicy bits! I think the fights in here are going even better than the arena!




Nah, I actually can't wait for combat rounds to get into full swing in the arena. We are only on round 2 and we got a ton more to go. It's just gonna be all around fun once the trees start falling from the sky. =o)


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## reapersaurus (Dec 11, 2002)

Pcat - done.
And I gotta say, that avatar of yours is as hypnotic as ever.  

If Bhall's thoughts are shared by anyone, I'll clear this up, re: OA.
OA was not allowed as a source book not because of power, but because Clockwork didn't want to have to juggle all those custom rules.
I can't remember if he mentioned that in this thread, or in an email.
I agree that you have to draw the line for material somewhere.
As long as I fully detailed the OA rules (which I did), he said no problem, since they weren't complex rules, I presume.

No 'raiding' of the book was done - I'm playing the Singh Rager and that's about it.

I think it's interesting that Bhall was stating things as facts that are completely wrong, and saying things that weren't said.

Please stop.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 11, 2002)

2 discussion topics for you all:

1) Did anyone have any concerns about using FR stuff, etc when the only Pantheon clockwork has for this game is Olympic gods?
(I guess that one's mostly for cleric-type characters : What did you all use for domains? Did it make sense to have your character teleported in just now, but make them worshipers of the gods?)

2) Isn't this GoD kind of expected to use a 'smackdown'ish character?
What _I_ mean by smackdown is a character that can put some hurting on somebody. (I'm not using some alternate definition that others have been that defines it as a one trick pony)


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## Victim (Dec 11, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *2 discussion topics for you all:
> 
> 1) Did anyone have any concerns about using FR stuff, etc when the only Pantheon clockwork has for this game is Olympic gods?
> (I guess that one's mostly for cleric-type characters : What did you all use for domains? Did it make sense to have your character teleported in just now, but make them worshipers of the gods?)
> *




I was somewhat curious about favored weapons, but I figured it wouldn't be that difficult to map domains between similar deities and such.  The only problem would be alignment issues.  Although you could probably find a Greek god with the right domain, it might not have a similar alignment.  For example, you might only be able to get Retribution from an evil or chaotic diety, instead of from Tyr, making things tough for the cleric/paladin.

*



			2) Isn't this GoD kind of expected to use a 'smackdown'ish character?
What _I_ mean by smackdown is a character that can put some hurting on somebody. (I'm not using some alternate definition that others have been that defines it as a one trick pony)
		
Click to expand...


*
Should characters be well built and constructed so that they might reasonably expect to win?  Yes.  So far, we've seen even a bard dish out decent damage.  I'd imagine that most characters, when in their element, pose a significant threat.  Tobias's attacks haven't impressed me much, but I'd expect that when any character cuts lose, the person on the recieving end won't be happy unless they have special defenses.  However, I think the game would be rather boring if most characters could do enough damage to kill just about anyone in one attack sequence.  It's not very much fun to die before being able to do something.

My problem with OA isn't the power level.  FR has overpowered magic stuff.  OA has overpowered melee stuff.  However, if I only expect overpowered FR magic when I make my character, but not the super melee from OA, then my character probably has some holes in his defenses.  Since clockworkjoe said that he posted his invitation for players on other boards, you can't expect everyone to have read your comments about using OA.  However, I think it was pretty decent of you to ask publicly, and not in private email, so that at least some people were aware of it.

Also, I don't really see why anyone should be asking for special exceptions.  I can see some modifications and such - there are always grey areas that require adjunctation.  For example, because of psi-magic transparency, psions are effectively pure caster classes.  Therefore, I can see how a psion might become a lich.  I'd have prefer it if the regular lich template had the entry requirements modified slightly to allow for psions, but oh well.  However, you can make a dangerous shield charge guy without any extra stuff.  In fact, without OA, your character wouldn't have to look silly by fighting with 2 shields.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 11, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *
> 
> In fact, without OA, your character wouldn't have to look silly by fighting with 2 shields. *




No, anyone who fights with two shields (and does not have 4 or more arms) is silly, stupid, and just plain dumb. 

There are no exceptions.


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## Berk (Dec 11, 2002)

*snickers*

I agree, but that is just personal views for me, it does look silly running around with 2 shields. Reminds me of Kingdom Hearts and Goofy. He runs around as a shield with his weapon and it is just hilarious to watch. Besides, I can't really see someone with 2 arms holding 2 shields either.


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## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

*Actually, it's been done...*

Dwarves are not silly, stupid, or dumb (isn't that kinda redundant, joe?).    Though I suppose on occasion there must be a slightly more obtuse dwarf in the crowd, and it is even likely he's the one they'll throw into the suit to hold a hallway...  I take it back then.  You may have a point.  

*Turtle Suit:*  This armor is so heavy it is worn only when the threat of combat is imminent.  It is also extremely bulky, making it difficult for the wearer to maneuver in tight quarters.  On the other hand, this type of armor takes up so much room, a single dwarf can block a corridor all on his own.  Any medium-sized creature wearing a turtle suit can effectively block a 10-foot-wide passage, using the integrated arm shields and mass of his armor to prevent the passage of opposing forces.  Characters wearing turtle armor are also treated as one size category larger than normal when attempting to avoid being tripped or grappled.  Those wearing turtle armor may not initiate a grapple or make a trip attack, however, as the bulk of their armor prevents such activities.  Finally, if the wearer of the turtle suit takes only movement actions during a combat round, he may protect himself with the arm shields built into the suit, increasing the suit’s armor bonus to +15.

Market Price: 2,000 gp, Armor Bonus +10, Maximum Dexterity Bonus: +0, Armor Check Penalty –10, Arcane Spell Failure: 60%, Speed: 15 ft./10ft., Weight: 70 lb.

_Next up:  Turtle Soup!_


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 11, 2002)

That's not for fighting. That's a moving wall. 

Also:


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## Victim (Dec 11, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> No, anyone who fights with two shields (and does not have 4 or more arms) is silly, stupid, and just plain dumb.
> 
> There are no exceptions. *




Ah, but without the ability to use both shields effectively on the critical charge attack, there's little reason to use 2 of them.  Therefore, the character can hold a weapon in his off hand so he can look normal, while using the shield to beat people up.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 11, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *No, anyone who fights with two shields (and does not have 4 or more arms)*



But...  clockwork - 
If you had 4 arms, that would be such a Wonderful place to strap 2 MORE shields to!


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## Jeremy (Dec 11, 2002)

You're scaring the kiddies joe.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 11, 2002)

Jeremy said:
			
		

> *You're scaring the kiddies joe.   *




...


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## Victim (Dec 11, 2002)

Eyebite doesn't work at that resolution.


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 11, 2002)

I have to agree with the sentiment that using two shields is stupid.  Now if you were allowed the Shield Rod(from Castlevania:SotN), I'd be carrying around about 20 different types of magic shields, but that's different.

BTW, reaper, sorry about the nasty comments the other day.  I got kinda out of control.  Just my opinion.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 11, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Eyebite doesn't work at that resolution. *




...


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## Berk (Dec 11, 2002)

LOL!!


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 11, 2002)

Did R. Lee Ermey viciously assault you, clockworkjoe?


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## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 12, 2002)

I don't know whether to laugh, cry , or go blind.

On second thought, definitely go blind.


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## Terraism (Dec 12, 2002)

Run away! Run _awaaaay_!!


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## Terraism (Dec 12, 2002)

I'm not even sure how that managed to be a double post...


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 12, 2002)

blackshirt5 said:
			
		

> *Did R. Lee Ermey viciously assault you, clockworkjoe? *




Great Leader KIM IL SUNG commands you to LISTEN to the Korean Friendship Association's Great Hymn!

http://www.korea-dpr.com/KFA_hymn.mp3


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 12, 2002)

I guess you've never seen that movie with R. Lee Ermey in it(it's a military movie, I always remember the name, except for now, I can't remember it) where he threatens to skull     one of the recruits for laughing.  That picture with the spurting blood reminded me of it.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 12, 2002)

blackshirt5 said:
			
		

> *I guess you've never seen that movie with R. Lee Ermey in it(it's a military movie, I always remember the name, except for now, I can't remember it) where he threatens to skull     one of the recruits for laughing.  That picture with the spurting blood reminded me of it. *




I've seen Full Metal Jacket. But I am president of the KFA. I told them I'd shoot. But they didn't believe me. WHY DIDN'T THEY BELIEVE ME??

Happy happy joy joy...


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 12, 2002)

Thanx for posting the name, I remembered just as I was scrolling down, seriously, and then I saw that you posted it, so I don't have to edit my post.


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## Number47 (Dec 13, 2002)

Come on, guys. We need more action. We need a snappier pace. We need all you guys to send in moves quickly so we can get back to the star of the show, me!

Tough luck on the Invisibility, Vraketh (whoever you really are). Just 10 feet from Fingolfen, too.


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## Victim (Dec 13, 2002)

The next person in line is Fingolfin.  An invisible person just appeared in his face while someone else is attacking him.  Give him some time to think.

However, Therron, Jade, and Icitrik are on the other side of the map and should have their actions.  If I were Ancryx, I'd want to see what the monk does before moving though.  And I want to see what he does - and I need to see what the gods are doing as well.  When you want to see what the people right in front of you do, you can't really have actions in advance.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 13, 2002)

As you can probably tell by now, the kobolds delaying their actions are merely waiting until they figure out what to do. The invisibility purge kobold figured out that the cohort in the stands was casting helpful spells on someone other than fingolfin and decided that making the unseen seen was the best possible course of action (please the gods, get out alive).


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## Victim (Dec 13, 2002)

I thought they were delaying because they can't do Trig in their heads without taking a while.


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## Number47 (Dec 13, 2002)

Actually, come to think about it, Vraketh has nothing to complain about. After all, her cohort is being allowed to cast on her even though she's invisible. The kobold triangulation is the downside of that. I was assuming a good Spot or Listen was involved as well.

I note that Therron is next in initiative. Is he still playing? After the big huff, I wasn't sure.


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## Victim (Dec 13, 2002)

The cohort might have True Seeing or something.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 13, 2002)

Therron is still playing. I'm waiting for his action.


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## Number47 (Dec 13, 2002)

The site keeps acting all wonky for me. It appears as just plain type about half the time. Anyone else having this problem?


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 13, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *The site keeps acting all wonky for me. It appears as just plain type about half the time. Anyone else having this problem? *




Never happens to me. I'll go ask tech support if that keeps up.

oh and in case you're wondering, quickdraw is house ruled to be 'you get to sheath and unsheath whatever weapons you want as many times as you want per round because it is cool and makes the feat up to par with FR feats'.


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## Berk (Dec 13, 2002)

AH HA!!!

But can we run and put on a helmet at the same time?!?!?!?!?!

*cackle*


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## reapersaurus (Dec 13, 2002)

I posted the caged bird's actions.  

The site is down for me right now, though.

I was wondering: 
I really like the Comments section that goes along with the Movable type posts - 
how can you read the comments of the actions that have scrolled off the Main Page?


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## Number47 (Dec 13, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *oh and in case you're wondering, quickdraw is house ruled to be 'you get to sheath and unsheath whatever weapons you want as many times as you want per round because it is cool and makes the feat up to par with FR feats'. *




Well, that makes it practically impossible to sunder a bow, then. After all, being able to sheathe and unsheathe every turn and take a five foot step while making a full attack action makes you immune to the one thing that is a downside for an archer. I guess we all have to use the ready action against these guys.


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## Berk (Dec 13, 2002)

Bah archers smarchers!! There are more terrifiying things out there then an arrow. =o)


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 13, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, that makes it practically impossible to sunder a bow, then. After all, being able to sheathe and unsheathe every turn and take a five foot step while making a full attack action makes you immune to the one thing that is a downside for an archer. I guess we all have to use the ready action against these guys. *




At level 15, characters can signifcantly alter reality, including causing earthquakes, killing someone with a thought, summoning powerful demons or celestials and so forth. I don't think being able to do matrix-y type stunts with weapons is that threatening to game balance.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 13, 2002)

Point.


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## Number47 (Dec 13, 2002)

Yep, the site is definitely acting strangely. Half the time when I go there, it is just a column of text with the links intact, but no formatting. If I post a comment, though, I can reload the page and it appears normal again. This is probably just me, using a Mac and Netscape 7. So the easy solution is, simply expect to see a lot of comments from me on the site.


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## Victim (Dec 13, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Well, that makes it practically impossible to sunder a bow, then. After all, being able to sheathe and unsheathe every turn and take a five foot step while making a full attack action makes you immune to the one thing that is a downside for an archer. I guess we all have to use the ready action against these guys. *




You can do the same thing with 2.2k gloves of storing.  You pretty much need a ready action to destroy a bow that someone has decided to protect.

Where is reapersaurus's move anyway?  IMHO, he wouldn't have lost anything by sending it in ahead of time, since he's off in his own little world.  Anyway, I want to see how much of his move matches what I'd do, even not knowing his characters' exact abilities.


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## JDragon (Dec 13, 2002)

I thought the Gloves of Storing were a standard action to store an item and free to reteive. (sp)

JDragon


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## Victim (Dec 13, 2002)

Not according to the DMG errata.


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## JDragon (Dec 13, 2002)

Good to know.

JDragon


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## reapersaurus (Dec 13, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Where is reapersaurus's move anyway?  IMHO, he wouldn't have lost anything by sending it in ahead of time, since he's off in his own little world. *



Well, 6 posts before yours, I said I sent mine earlier.
I guess reading is a lost art form, eh? 

And while Therron is lost, and Jade is caught, the little canary can still peck.

The kobold is impervious though, and the Gawd's are determined to have that ioun stone be lost to my team, it appears.  

edit: I just remembered that these kobolds, which are immune to Jade's no-save stunning effect, are the same ones that weren't equipped by the Gawds with a See Invisibility so they could do their jobs effectively?  WTF?   

Maybe I'm just expecting a different type of battle between PC's, and not so much NPC interference in a GoD?


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 13, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *how can you read the comments of the actions that have scrolled off the Main Page? *


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## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

clockwork:
I'll post Jade's follow-up words after the kobold shrugged off Jade's Blast:
[Jade] "Well, hey there, you look SOOO cute in that big helmet!" She says, cooing like the songbird she is.

"I have a proposition for you that MAY gain you your masters' favor.

If you don't leave, and you return Therron's ioun stone to me without using it, then next round I will try to force Martok there (the one that imprisoned us and keeps us from continuing our Work) to let us out, and bring Therron back.

Better yet, when we get out, I promise that we will help you take out players that have ioun stones. I have a feeling that all 3 of us would have more success Hunting quarry than you alone.
We will let you have any ioun stones of players we defeat, and I can guarantee that Therron will uphold this bargain if you agree, because he is well-known throughout the land to uphold his word, and we speak as one in negotiation.

As a gesture of Good Faith, you may have my ioun stones, all 4 of them.
You may have some ability to sense that they are not as powerful as Therron's, or the other stones you Hunt, but perhaps your masters may count them in your tally in the end?" [/Jade]


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## Twinswords (Dec 14, 2002)

Shouldn`t you send this in secret. Off course i always find it very handy to know my enemy (or their fake) plans in advance. Gives me ways to couneract them. Not that i`m anywhere near you or am I?

Twinswords, Jarrod or "that git with wings"


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## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

Well, that's part of her stated actions this turn, so I don't see why other players wouldn't hear her stated words that are said in Common....

Plus, on a personal note, I think subterfuge and hiding things is so....   well, let's say I'm not interested in that aspect of the game - be my guest, but I don't think anything your characters actually DO or SAY should be secret unless you're invisible or something like that.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 14, 2002)

I should point out that the kobolds like every other NPC that may show up in the Arena are not just stats waiting to screw you over. They are intelligent beings capable of speech with their own goals and motivations.  Thus interacting with them may yield interesting results.

Note that is not an endorsement/warning against any particular strategy in dealing with them. Talking to them may or may not yield results.


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## Victim (Dec 14, 2002)

An excellent speech wasted on a roll of 3.  Here's an idea: let the kobold keep the stone, but tell it to disentegrate the Force Cage for you, so you both can move about and hunt ioun stones.  As long as he keeps the stone, it shouldn't matter whether or not there's a spell in it.

I need to get over to the haste purging guy and convince him to run interference for me.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 14, 2002)

Oh and the teams (someone asked about them on the comments section)

team not good: sepiroth icitrik tobias sextus

team what: ancryx fingolfin


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## Number47 (Dec 14, 2002)

Seeing as how you're online now, is there any chance of seeing Ancryx turn and the Gods turn in the next hour or so?


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## Terraism (Dec 14, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Seeing as how you're online now, is there any chance of seeing Ancryx turn and the Gods turn in the next hour or so? *



I'm actually on my way off, actually - it's an early morning, and I'm not going to be able to look over turn information 'till about noon tomorrow.  Sorry, all - it's been a hectic day.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 14, 2002)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *I'm actually on my way off, actually - it's an early morning, and I'm not going to be able to look over turn information 'till about noon tomorrow.  Sorry, all - it's been a hectic day. *




...


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## Victim (Dec 14, 2002)

*The Character That Might Have Been*

I did some work fleshing out one of my other character builds.  I'm thinking that maybe I used the wrong character.

Hax
1/2 orc Barbarian 2, FIghter 6, Frenzied Beserker 5, Tribal protector 2.

STR 24 (28)
DEX 14
CON 16 (20)
INT 6
WIS 12
CHA 6

HP 239
AC 17
Attacks +15/+10/+5, +30/+25/+20 mercurial greatsword, +35/+35/+30/+25 with rage and frenzy

Dmg: 2d6 +20, up to +28 19-20/x4

F +15 (+20)
R +6 (+8)
W +3 (+4)

Destructive Rage, Power Attack, Intimidating Rage (DC 15), Cleave, Exotic Weapon, Focus, Specialization, Imp. Crit, Power Crit in Mercurial Greatsword, Blindfight, remain Conscious.

Skills:  4 or more ranks in wilderness lore.  With a -2 INT mod, everything else will suck.

Rage 1/day, Frenzy 3/day, Wild Fighting, Supreme Cleave, Deathless Frenzy, Imp. Power Attack, Uncanny Dodge - dex

2 rings of 9 lives
winged mask
Rhino Hide
Glove of storing
manual of gainful exercise +1, used
Amulet of health +4
belt of giant strength +4
see invis item

about 7k for potions and cheap stuff.

On a charge attack - up to 180 ft distance - Hax can launch 3 attacks at +35 on each for an average of 70 damage per hit.  And with 2 rings of 9 lives, he could be healed to full from attacks that would drop him or automatically make saves up to 18 times.

Now that I've looked at this character more carefully, I feel stupid for using my current character.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I should point out that the kobolds like every other NPC that may show up in the Arena are not just stats waiting to screw you over. They are intelligent beings capable of speech with their own goals and motivations.  Thus interacting with them may yield interesting results.
> 
> Note that is not an endorsement/warning against any particular strategy in dealing with them. Talking to them may or may not yield results. *



Well, if anyone can think of something I could have done to prevent Therron's stone from being taken, or succeeding in taking it back, I'm all ears.

The Gawd's targeting of Therron first, Teleporting it close, the good attack roll, MArtok's no-save spells, the kobold being immune to stunning, and then even reasoning with it to find it's motivation, .... I really am out of ideas at what you expected me to be able to do to stop the situation you are portraying here, clockwork.

I do take opposition to your suggestion that your NPC's and the Gawds's actions can be averted, or even modified or dodged in any way.

While we are under attack by other players, it really seems overkill, and uncalled for to me personally, to send your NPC's in with arbitrary powers that don't exist in the rules, that change on a whim.

Mind you, I'm not trying to accuse you of anything - I'm just giving you feedback you are free to ignore.
This is my opinion of the outcome of your DM'ing, and is meant to give you what you asked for: players opinions of the Game, and the effectiveness or ineffectiveness of strategies/actions: 







> 4. Players, if you could write down your thoughts and commentary on the game as it progresses, it would be neat for me to have since I eventually play to create a site showing every turn as it progresses with my thoughts on every decision you guys are making and your contributions would really help.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

Victim - I don't think clockwork would allow the Rage and Frenzy to stack - he told me "It's stupid to think that you get to benefit from two different types of rage/frenzy at the same time. Also, rage/frenzy is a mind affecting effect and once you enter in one type of rage, you can't benefit from another. "

and wouldn't that character (which I like, BTW - nice to see melee monsters) only get one attack when charging?


----------



## Number47 (Dec 14, 2002)

Victim,

I don't think that character would work well at all. He has a Will of +3! One of the first things that would happen is that someone would Charm or Dominate him or Suggest that he calm down. There is a lot you can do to a person without killing them, too.

It sucks to be controlled. Just ask Zalilad.

My alternate that I had been thinking about was a Druid 15, specialized in the Poison spell. With a Maximized, Empowered Poison, the initial 11-15 points of Con loss was sure to near-kill most characters, not to mention the followup 11-15 Con loss 10 rounds later. The save would have been very tough, as well and could be made tougher with advantages. The biggest problem with the build was the spell Delay Poison and other items that protect from being poisoned. I still think the character would have enjoyed limited success but ultimately lost.

Here's another thing to discuss, advantages. I himmed and hawed over which one to take, mostly between a cohort, my gawd likes me and fandom. Now I am wondering if I chose the right one. Of course, I have gotten a lot of good use out of the one I chose, but the my gawd likes me advantage is just so darn aggravating! I suppose I would have done best with the one that lets you buy and use ninth-level scrolls, but it just didn't sound as fun.


----------



## Berk (Dec 14, 2002)

> Victim - I don't think clockwork would allow the Rage and Frenzy to stack - he told me "It's stupid to think that you get to benefit from two different types of rage/frenzy at the same time. Also, rage/frenzy is a mind affecting effect and once you enter in one type of rage, you can't benefit from another. "




It specifically states that rage and frenzy stack in MotW.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 14, 2002)

Berk said:
			
		

> *
> 
> It specifically states that rage and frenzy stack in MotW. *





That's the frenzied berserker and barbarian rage stacking, I was referring to Ki Frenzy and the singh rager ability.

edit: As for the kobold not being cooperative, the hunters will not agree to any plan where they return ioun stones.

and as a house rule, each player can make up to 2 parley attempts per round.


----------



## Victim (Dec 14, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Well, if anyone can think of something I could have done to prevent Therron's stone from being taken, or succeeding in taking it back, I'm all ears.
> 
> *




Do you even need to get the stone back?  Assuming that the stored spell is Disintegrate, you shouldn't need to recover.  Anyone can use the stored spell, so just convince the kobold to zap the Force Cage so he can leave and hunt more stones.  That way, he doesn't freak out about giving up the stone, and Jade actually saves an action since the kobold is doing the dirty work.

Rings of 9 Lives can also spend charges for automatic success on saving throws.  So Hax wouldn't need to worry much about instant death or domination effects.  

Hmm, it looks as if he'd only get 2 attacks.  Wild Fighting, unlike flurry of blows and rapid shot, doesn't specify that it must be used on a full attack action.  I thought Frenzy mentioned speed weapons when refering to the extra attack, but it doesn't so he'd miss out on that attack.  In any case, I just finished the first draft from my notes that I made without my books, so I hadn't checked it with clockworkjoe to see how he'd rule on certain issues.


However, the essential idea was to create a pure, offense oriented character that does lots of damage, give him enough magic items to be able to attack his enemies - flight and see invis are the key effects here - and then use everything else for the 2 rings.  18 shots of heal or automatic saves would discourage attackers - a character charging him would, even if the intial charge attack contained a killing blow, find himself on the receiving end of a full attack.  And I doubt many people would expect TWO rings of 9 lives, and thus might overexpose themselves when going for the 10th "kill." 

Hmm.  With an AMF character and one with 2 rings of nine lives, I seem to focus on defensive aspects for these games.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 14, 2002)

I'm obviously not familiar with the ring of nine lives, but it sounds overpowered at any price. You are essentially getting nine wishes used as free actions? I wouldn't want to contend with it, and I'm afraid I probably am.


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## Victim (Dec 14, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I'm obviously not familiar with the ring of nine lives, but it sounds overpowered at any price. You are essentially getting nine wishes used as free actions? I wouldn't want to contend with it, and I'm afraid I probably am. *




I'd say that it's more like Limited Wishes, but on Contingencies.  

"If the wearer ever drops to 0 hit points or below, the ring expends one of its charges to cast a heal spell upon her.  The wearer can expend a charge if she fails a saving throw, allowing her to treat the saving throw as a success.  A ring of nine lives has 9 charges when created, but most are discovered with only 2d4 charges left."  Requires Forge Ring, Heal, Limited Wish.  70000 GP price, 41750 GP and 4960 XP to create.  Caster level 13

This ring is one of the reasons I'm running around inside an AMF - if I kill someone there, this cheese ball item can't save them.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

> Ring of Nine Lives:
> A simple silver or gold band set with nine small gemstones, a ring of nine lives often sports a cat’s head motif. Any time the wearer is required to make a saving throw aggainst a death effect, the  wearer automatically succeeds at the save, and one of the gemstones on the ring disappears. When all the gems are gone,  the ring is no longer magical. Such rings have 2-9 (1d8+1) stones when found. Newly created rings always have nine stones.
> Caster Level: 11th
> Prerequisites: Forge Ring, heal
> ...



 It was in a web-document that WotC put out.
It sounds to me that "death effect" would only pertain to Disintigrate, Slay Living, etc.
I don't know if it's been clarified anywhere, since it's a very fringe rules source, AFAIK.


----------



## Berk (Dec 14, 2002)

the ring of nine lives is grossly under priced as it is.

the cost of it is more along the lines of around 250k+

Just the cost of the heals themselves costs more then the listed 70k. Add onto that the limited wish, which carries an exp point cost, and it gets kinda wild. This is more of an epic item then anything IMHO just because of it's power.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *That's the frenzied berserker and barbarian rage stacking, I was referring to Ki Frenzy and the singh rager ability. *



*Throws up hands in frustration*
So what's the difference?

Rules-wise, they both stack.
Just like the Arm of Nyr and Bull's Strength.

What exact reason makes it different for my characters?


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 14, 2002)

Berk said:
			
		

> *the ring of nine lives is grossly under priced as it is.*



Where is Victim's version of the Ring of Nine Lives from?

clockwork - did you allow that in the game?
Is it a published source?


----------



## Berk (Dec 14, 2002)

> *Throws up hands in frustration*
> So what's the difference?
> 
> Rules-wise, they both stack.
> Just like the Arm of Nyr and Bull's Strength.




Cuz they are like bonuses and like bonuses don't stack unless stated otherwise like the rage from barabrian and the frenzy from frenzied berserker.

As for the arm of nyr and bull's str, that is a purely dm's decision I would personally say since most of the stuff from DotF is just plain old iffy on clarifications.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 14, 2002)

Hey, Clockwork - under the "Dramatis Personae" page of the site, would it be possible to coerce you to list the people's usernames along with the character?  It'd make conversation much easier.  

(Terraism --> Ancryx)


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 14, 2002)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *Hey, Clockwork - under the "Dramatis Personae" page of the site, would it be possible to coerce you to list the people's usernames along with the character?  It'd make conversation much easier.
> 
> (Terraism --> Ancryx) *




Good idea, and Reaper every ruling I made regarding your character was because I felt those things were too powerful.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 15, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Good idea, and Reaper every ruling I made regarding your character was because I felt those things were too powerful. *



Thanks - I've been trying to figure out who certain individuals are for a while...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 15, 2002)

oh and Zeus's boon will take effect the moment I get all 18 boons.


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## Terraism (Dec 15, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *oh and Zeus's boon will take effect the moment I get all 18 boons. *



The limit is still the end of this (the 3rd) round, right?  So we could hold off if we'd like?


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## Johno (Dec 15, 2002)

The Ring of Nine Lives is in the Magic of Faerûn. So I believe it is allowable in this game.

That isn't to say tha I think it shouldn't be as I feel that it is a mite overpowered.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 15, 2002)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *The limit is still the end of this (the 3rd) round, right?  So we could hold off if we'd like? *




Yup. If I don't get all 18 by the time I finish Ancryx's next turn, then those who don't send me their boon get nothing


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## green slime (Dec 15, 2002)

Out of interest, clockworkjoe, how many have you recieved so far?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 15, 2002)

green slime said:
			
		

> *Out of interest, clockworkjoe, how many have you recieved so far? *




3


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## Victim (Dec 15, 2002)

I just sent my move in.  My move shouldn't affect the next few people.

I don't know what to do with my boon.  Since it seems like a wish effect, bad wording might come back to haunt you.

Yes, I think the ring of 9 lives (MaoF) is overpowered.  A lot of stuff is overpowered.  That's part of the fun in these games.    Why would I give a character 2 rings of nine lives and use up most of his gold if I didn't think they were overpower?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Dec 15, 2002)

If you don't mind me chiming in:

The char concept I had for this game was going to use 2 Ring of Nine Lives, you may want to check the wording since I think it can be interpretted as using 2 charges at once, one from each ring, (since each ring is on a contingency effect that you don't cause yourself so you can't choose just to use one of them) to heal back to full after getting to 0 or below hitpoints.


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## Number47 (Dec 15, 2002)

Boy, it sure does get interesting, doesn't it. This boon thing means that none of us can really assume anything at all right now.

Question on the ring of nine munchkins. If someone is above zero, then dropped to -10 in one blow, then they are dead and the ring can do nothing?


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 15, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Boy, it sure does get interesting, doesn't it. This boon thing means that none of us can really assume anything at all right now.
> 
> Question on the ring of nine munchkins. If someone is above zero, then dropped to -10 in one blow, then they are dead and the ring can do nothing? *




I haven't decided one way or the other on that.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 15, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Reaper every ruling I made regarding your character was because I felt those things were too powerful. *



LOL.
Do you realize how kind of funny this sounds when you allow things like Ring of Nine Munchkins, as Number47 called it?

Comparing Arms of Nyr and Ki Frenzy/Lion's Fury vs. the Ring of Nine Lives, it would be fairly clear, I'd think, which one is "too powerful".

And I understand you not wanting too much power in the Game.
I just don't see why I'm the only one you exercise this restraint on.

Actually, maybe some of you can help me : 
Did anyone else have anything "Too powerful" removed by DM fiat?
Maybe I'd feel better if I had ANY company?

BTW: What's the info about this 'boon' you are all talking about?
I can't get to the site.... is anyone else having problems?

And I found out how to view older comments : click on the date in the calendar on the right. For each move, it lists the comments out (doesn't have you click the comments button to bring it up).
It only shows one move's comments at a time, but at list you can get to 'em.


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## Victim (Dec 15, 2002)

The webpage seems to be down.

It looks like the battle of the 2 weapon ginsu machines has begun.  Yasumoto seemed to unleash an impressive number of actions this round - he moved, used GMW somehow, and took at least a full attack.   While a haste move/partial charge could be used with a full attack, that doesn't explain the GMW unless it's quickened.


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## Number47 (Dec 15, 2002)

Quite truthfully, I was hoping that I wouldn't have to take my action until after the boons came about. Looks like that isn't going to happen. Why is everyone posting their turns so quickly?

I half suspect that somebody at least is purposefully delaying the boons from taking effect until as late as possible.


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## Victim (Dec 15, 2002)

Part of that would be me, I guess.  I've thought up a few boons, but figuring out exactly what I want and how to word things so I don't defeat myself is tricky.  But characters have acted so quickly beacuse they either aren't doing much (Harsel, Martok) or have been playing their action for awhile.  And because the game should move fast.  

Actually, I am plotting against you so you have to move with incomplete information.  And I plotting against me too, for the same effect.  

Also, Ancryx is on a team, and I want to see what kind of situation his partner gets into first.  If one character is in good shape, and the other isn't then both might use their boons to help the guy in trouble - assuming team play.  

Depending on how clockworkjoe rules on the Ring, it might not be that overpowered.  Also, I'd imagine that anyone equiping a character with a 70k item with an unclear area might ask how it works - since he hasn't had to come up with a ruling, it might be the case that no one has the item.  Of course, given the power of the ring, that seems surprising.

And reaper, since your character is designed around a full attack shield charge, every bonus can end up increased tenfold.  There's a very fine line between unbalanced and overpowering with that design.  Also, the ring is mostly a defensive item while your character is very focused on offense.  There's a difference between dealing with someone that's tough to kill and being dead.  However, I think you might have got the worse of some rulings.  I didn't have a problem with any rulings about being overpowered.  On the other hand, my character is designed to be somewhat weak - the trick is that he drags other characters down too since they should be more reliant on magic.


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## Victim (Dec 15, 2002)

10 hours and no move.  I am displeased.


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## Terraism (Dec 15, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *10 hours and no move.  I am displeased. *




You've been thinking that too? I haven't commented since I skipped off the other night before making my move, but...


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## Number47 (Dec 15, 2002)

I'm wondering if clockworkjoe has simply not been home at all. I really should have received an e-mail from him after my turn, but didn't. Hopefully his computer isn't down or something equally disastrous.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 16, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I'm wondering if clockworkjoe has simply not been home at all. I really should have received an e-mail from him after my turn, but didn't. Hopefully his computer isn't down or something equally disastrous. *




What, I have to be chained to the bloody computer? God, I can't even go out and enjoy a pleasant day outside for once without someone criticizing 

Also, the boon will be along the lines of a wish spell. Just be careful for what you ask for.


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## Terraism (Dec 16, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> What, I have to be chained to the bloody computer? God, I can't even go out and enjoy a pleasant day outside for once without someone criticizing
> 
> Also, the boon will be along the lines of a wish spell. Just be careful for what you ask for. *



That's right - slave, slave, away, just like your Clockwork namesake!


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## reapersaurus (Dec 16, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *A few clarifications on My god likes me:
> 
> The boon will at most duplicate a spell of 3rd level or lower or similar effect such as asking for mundane equipment.
> 
> ...



clockwork - I take it this Round 3 Gawd boon is completely different from the My Gawd Likes Me boon?

No level 3 cap?
What about the last part - the more powerful the boon request, the less control the player will have over it?

For example, if you had the choice to request a boon between a 7th level spell, and a 4th level spell, is there any difference in the likelihood of the boon successfully being granted?

edit: from a 3rd level boon to a 9th level boon?
Quite the increase in power level there.... it seems like the PC's are starting to take more of a back seat to the Gawd's demonstrations of power...


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## Berk (Dec 16, 2002)

I would most likely deffinately say that this is different then the my god likes me boon since well I'm getting it and I didn't pick the my god likes me. =op


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 16, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *clockwork - I take it this Round 3 Gawd boon is completely different from the My Gawd Likes Me boon?
> 
> No level 3 cap?
> What about the last part - the more powerful the boon request, the less control the player will have over it?
> ...




no level 3 cap

All boons will be granted. You have to wait to see what else happens. 

And also, if you have a problem with this game, please by all means, run your own Game of Death.


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## Terraism (Dec 16, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *edit: from a 3rd level boon to a 9th level boon?
> Quite the increase in power level there.... it seems like the PC's are starting to take more of a back seat to the Gawd's demonstrations of power...  *




Perhaps, Reaper, but I wouldn't say so - after all, the power is going to the PC's, in this instance; it's up to our cleverness and ingenuity to do something with it.  The gods are but a means to an end.


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## EricNoah (Dec 16, 2002)

I certainly haven't read this whole thread, and am not sure how I could have missed it   But isn't this more of an "In Character" type of thing (a message board game, as it were)?  I'll move it to the appropriate forum if it is.


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## Azure Trance (Dec 16, 2002)

But it's easier to access where it is right here


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## Terraism (Dec 16, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *I certainly haven't read this whole thread, and am not sure how I could have missed it   But isn't this more of an "In Character" type of thing (a message board game, as it were)?  I'll move it to the appropriate forum if it is. *



It is... and it isn't.    It started with Clockwork's recruitement of players, and is now just a discussion of the game - located here.  Your call, of course, Eric - I'd prefer it stay here, but... that's just 'cause I like not having to switch forums to check up on it.


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## Azure Trance (Dec 16, 2002)

Plus it'll rack up more post views. I still wonder whose going to be the final contender ... not sure if I remember reading it before in this (now very long) thread but who won the last GOD?


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## Terraism (Dec 16, 2002)

I _think_ it was Number47, but I could be wrong...


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## Victim (Dec 16, 2002)

Number47 had the first character to die.  But he was insanely powerful.  The winner was:

Mal-2........................Varus the Vile....................Fighter 6/Weaponmaster 4 kills in 46 rounds.

Agladan came in third, with the harpoon wielding K-something the Killer.  He got 2 kills.

EvilEeyore came in second with 3 kills.

The lifetime Game of Death standings are on the first page of Fight Club near the bottom.  Green Slime currently leads those boards, because he did well in both games so far.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 16, 2002)

is there a listing of the characters that participated in the second GoD?
I've been wondering what strategies they used...  (other than the follower insanity)


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## Number47 (Dec 16, 2002)

I still think that if I hadn't been too aggressive, and if I hadn't blown up that scroll of Mordenkainen's Disjunction instead of casting it, I would have won. Hard to say, of course, because anti-magic field is a pain to deal with and real cheap if you base your entire character off it.


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## Victim (Dec 16, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *is there a listing of the characters that participated in the second GoD?
> I've been wondering what strategies they used...  (other than the follower insanity) *




You had to ask . . .

Varsus the Vile was rat-man from OA who used a scythe.  He used an Antimagic Field and had the dubious honor of spending much of the game trapped in a corner by a Wall of Force.  

The second place character was a cleric, fighter, planar champion, I think.  He used Dust of Disappearence to great effect, along with etherealness.  I think he got the most kills too.  At level 10, true seeing is a bit harder to get than at level 15.

Kayano (sp) the killer had variety of effects IIRC.  He used an Antimagic Field for much of the game, and had a harpoon to trap enemies inside the field so they couldn't escape.  I forgot his class combination, but I think Knight of the Middle Circle was in there.

There was no restriction on high level scrolls, so Dabbil used Summon 9, Shapechange, etc.  Powerful stuff.

Most of the followers died pretty quickly in that game.  Someone used one of the repel spells, and followers got knocked around and died.  It was the Dungeon game of death that followers got out of control in.  Number47 decided to have an army of 1st level experts with Use Magic Device and Wands of Magic Missile.


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## Number47 (Dec 16, 2002)

In both of those games, when the DMs said that they were allowing not only cohorts but followers into the arena/dungeon, I thought to myself, "what are they thinking?" But far be it from me to pass up an opportunity to eke a little more out of a feat.

In the dungeon game of death, my cohort even had an animal companion. Little known fact, the Dire Tiger was supposed to be named Stryper, but clockworkjoe *demanded* that in order for him to allow the Dire Tiger in the game, it had to be named Mr. Boots.


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## Victim (Dec 16, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *In both of those games, when the DMs said that they were allowing not only cohorts but followers into the arena/dungeon, I thought to myself, "what are they thinking?" But far be it from me to pass up an opportunity to eke a little more out of a feat.
> 
> In the dungeon game of death, my cohort even had an animal companion. Little known fact, the Dire Tiger was supposed to be named Stryper, but clockworkjoe demanded that in order for him to allow the Dire Tiger in the game, it had to be named Mr. Boots. *




Yeah, the Dire Tiger was a monster.  He even got hit with Mage Armor and Bull's Strength IIRC.  Too bad he wouldn't even fit into the 2nd level of the dungeon.  I was wondering why the name was changed.

My cleric was hilarious.  I used Incense of Meditation to Maximize all my spells, a Candle of Invocation to boost caster level and give me 6th level spells - we were 9th level characters - and had a Bead of Karma for +4 caster levels.  +5 weapons at level 9 - no problem!  90 point Flamestrikes and 120 point Fireseeds?  Sure.  I even came up with a strategy that required a change in the rules.  Why use a 9th level group of heroes to defeat the evil-god-resurrecting lich when they can summon a group of Planetars to do the job?   That would have been oh so fair.


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## Azure Trance (Dec 16, 2002)

*Look what google had to say about Mr Boots*


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 16, 2002)

Artemis's beast is hidden in the wheat field and will attack anyone who ventures into the field. Sepiroth obvously took the "My gawd likes me" bonus but instead of a getting a minor boon every round, he got a pretty big boon for 1 round total. That's what you get when you worship a chaotic goddess 

And Mr. Boots is  name.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 16, 2002)

I have received boons from:

Landerin
Dabbil
Vraketh
Martok
Harsel
Jarrod
Tobias
Norman Witherspoon
Macallan
Yasumoto

10 out of 18. If I got your boon and I haven't listed it or you haven't seen me one, email me ASAP with the boon.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 16, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Little known fact, the Dire Tiger was supposed to be named Stryper *



To Hell with the Devil, baby.   *shudder*


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## blackshirt5 (Dec 16, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *
> In the dungeon game of death, my cohort even had an animal companion. Little known fact, the Dire Tiger was supposed to be named Stryper, but clockworkjoe demanded that in order for him to allow the Dire Tiger in the game, it had to be named Mr. Boots. *




I'd then want a LEgendary Eagle named Winger.

And How about a Legendary Constrictor, who happens to be Albino?  White Snake.


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## Victim (Dec 16, 2002)

Okay, I'm digging up the old games:

Game of Death 2:

Part 1: 
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2538

Part 2: 
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=4262

Part 3:
http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6988

I've bumped the open threads as well.  Amazingly, the maps still work.  I couldn't find the first game since it's so old.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 16, 2002)

Not a Constrictor, but a viper, who's fangs drip Poison.

But I'd rather have a female Great White Lion animal companion - quite the Vixen.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 16, 2002)

About the critical hit issue:

I hadn't decided on a policy regarding how to describe critical hits when I started the game but I have figured it out now.

The policy is like this:

Joe attacks bob with a longsword 3 times (natural attack roll 3, 19, 20 result miss, hit, critical damage 10, 15, 15 total 60) 

Joe missed with a 3. Joe hit with a 19 but did not confirm the crit. The 20 was confirmed and was a critical hit. Whether bob was immune to the critical hit is not public information 

So, some of the hits in the past were not displayed correctly. However, *I assure you that damage for each hit is absolutely correct and is not a screwup. *I took into account each player's defenses and offensive capability very carefully.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 17, 2002)

I finally got time to read the GoD 2.

Man, there's some hilarious stuff in there!

Some classic quotes: "I told you stepping on halflings would bring bad luck."
"Wow! That Garion is just being an ass-kicking machine!"


Now I know what the monster in the wheat field is...





*spoiler space*



..... ELF 22!

I just hope to hell I don't get "envisorated" like poor Meme.


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## Agladan (Dec 17, 2002)

Yup - GoD2 was real fun to be in (I played the harpoonwielding rat-man). I wonder what having their followers pushed into "Walls of Fire" by my "Repel Wood" spell (from a "Purple Ioun Stone") that covered almost the entire top half of the arena, did to the reputation of Dabbil and Meme among future followers. 

But this one looks fun too. Just you keep the action going, then neither I (nor likely the GAWDS) will be bored.

A pity I am so bloody slow when it comes to cook up a character, 'cause I would have enjoyed participating in this fight.

Hey Clockworkjoe! If you need someone to run a monster or something for you, just tell me. I seem to be following this thread almost as if I was participating anyway. You're doing good!


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## reapersaurus (Dec 17, 2002)

a thing i noticed when reading it well into the morning today....

it took 3 months+?!!

Gads, I hope this one doesn't take half that long....   
When do the turns start speeding up - probably when people start getting killed, right?


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 17, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *a thing i noticed when reading it well into the morning today....
> 
> it took 3 months+?!!
> 
> ...




Yeah, I figured this to be a long term project when I began. On one hand, level 15 characters can do decent damage, but on the other they have access to heal spells and the like.


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## The Forsaken One (Dec 17, 2002)

let me put in the insane idea that grants you 2 solars to gate in at level 15 or two black slaadi.

Go divine champion and take gate as your 9th level godly gift and you get gate at level 10 once a day anyway. Gate in two Black slaadi, sit back and relax 

But that kinda would ruin the game..  That combo makes everything else seem stupid at level 15... (IMO)

Very cool game btw, just read through the 9 pages and I'm starting on the previous games. I like it alot =] I'll be watching! Seems promissing!


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## Victim (Dec 17, 2002)

Now that characters have started launching attacks, it shouldn't take long for people to start dropping.  Right now, it looks like a few characters might be close to death, but once the boons are unleashed, anything could happen.  I think it would be funny if someone use their wish to duplicate a Horrid Wilting or something and use it to attack the 4 characters in very close proximity.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 17, 2002)

ya, all those characters huddled close together is awfully teasing...


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## Agladan (Dec 17, 2002)

A nice boon would be wishing for the arena to shrink.  

Perhaps somebody could wish that the arena will never be greater than now and also be limited by the furthest distance between any three contestants (dimension wise - think a rectangular cube). That would have the nice effect of forcing the participants into closer and closer proximity. 

I guess that it would probably be a better idea for martial characters than spellusers or rouge types.

It would guarantee that the game could not draw out forever btw - which could be a good thing.


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## JDragon (Dec 17, 2002)

CJ,

is it possible to put something on the map showing where the BB is?

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 17, 2002)

Oh and about Jarrod's invis, which is from dust of disappearance, True seeing can defeat the dust, but as far as I know, no one within 120 feet of Jarrod's location (range of true seeing) has true seeing up. 

Am I missing something? Why are some of you wondering about that in the comments section of the site?


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## reapersaurus (Dec 18, 2002)

i was actually just trying to start comments again on the site.
It had been a while since people had commented is all, and I couldn't remember how he turned invisible.
Then when i looked, it explicitly says that Jarron's Round 1 action was to turn invisible from a potion.

Aren't thoughts/curiousities like that what the Great moveable type ability to have comments are for?


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 18, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *i was actually just trying to start comments again on the site.
> It had been a while since people had commented is all, and I couldn't remember how he turned invisible.
> Then when i looked, it explicitly says that Jarron's Round 1 action was to turn invisible from a potion.
> 
> Aren't thoughts/curiousities like that what the Great moveable type ability to have comments are for? *




actually in the first round, I edited out the dust's application since then everyone would know what he used. I was still refining my policy of what to report and what not to report at that point


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## Number47 (Dec 18, 2002)

Can we have a current status on the boon? Clockwork, I commented on the site, but I will do it here too. Can we have a background that shows where immobile spells are that replaces the regular background? It would be extremely helpful.


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## Victim (Dec 18, 2002)

I'd like to see some markers for the area spells, too.  That would make things alot easier.  BTW, I think the X, Y coordinates for the Blade Barrier are reversed.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 18, 2002)

Bah. I uploaded new maps that have thingies for the globe, blades, and field. If anyone wants more stuff, they will have to give me more icons.

Also, I have 13 wishes so far. 

Landerin
Dabbil
Vraketh
Martok
Harsel
Jarrod
Tobias
Norman Witherspoon
Macallan
Yasumoto
Saepiroth
Hawkeye
Zalilad

5 left.


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## Victim (Dec 18, 2002)

That looks pretty good.  I think it's a bit odd that Jarrod's Blade Barrier wasn't aimed to hit everyone - why leave the hole in the middle when you can hit 2 additional targets?  

It looks like Icitrik, Fingolfin, Therron, Ancryx, and myself haven't sent in a boon yet.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 18, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *That looks pretty good.  I think it's a bit odd that Jarrod's Blade Barrier wasn't aimed to hit everyone - why leave the hole in the middle when you can hit 2 additional targets?
> 
> It looks like Icitrik, Fingolfin, Therron, Ancryx, and myself haven't sent in a boon yet. *




how would you place a circle like the barrier to do that?


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## Victim (Dec 18, 2002)

I'd use a solid disk or circle instead of a donut.  Maybe I'm missreading the spell, but it doesn't seem to me why a "Spinning disk of blades, up to 30-ft. radius" needs to have a hole in the middle.


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## Number47 (Dec 18, 2002)

I have to agree. I was wondering why Fingolfen and Icitrik didn't have saving throws. My suggestion, if things like this are unsure, is to ask the consensus on ENWorld, in the Rules forum.


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## Jeremy (Dec 18, 2002)

It's a solid disk, not a ring or donut.  The only way to put a hole in the middle are some prestige classes that allow you to put safe spots in.    Or have an antimagic field in the middle of it.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 18, 2002)

I am house ruling it as a hollow circle because I always played it that way.


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## Victim (Dec 18, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I am house ruling it as a hollow circle because I always played it that way.  *




It's a bit too late now anyway.  It also helps to prevent the Blade Barrier + entrapping spell like Force Cage combo that chops people up.


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## Number47 (Dec 18, 2002)

*sound of a bunch of clerics furiously scribbling notes on their Blade Barrier spells*


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## Number47 (Dec 18, 2002)

As we get to the bottom of the round, I find myself getting very excited, curious to find out what is going to happen next. I hope everyone else is getting as much of a thrill out of this GoD as I am.


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## Jeremy (Dec 18, 2002)

<Young Cleric>  But sir, doesn't a hole in the barrier make it a poor barrier?

<Teacher>  SILENCE!  Or my eye will bleed upon thee!


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 19, 2002)

oh and another house rule of mine:

magic bonuses from bows and arrows stack for the purposes of arrow deflection.


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## Victim (Dec 19, 2002)

Doesn't arrow deflection only work once per round?


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 19, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Doesn't arrow deflection only work once per round? *




oh well, moot question now


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 19, 2002)

After seeing The Twin Towers, I have decided that next round Zeus will teleport in 10,000 orcs. Angry ones.

Then next round, Zeus will teleport several dozen angry treants. 

And a flood.


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## Victim (Dec 19, 2002)

A flood?  Harsel would be screwed.  Water, platemail, and dwarves just don't go well together.


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## Bhaal (Dec 19, 2002)

That's cool, in my next round I'd like fingolfin to openly challenge Hades and maim him


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## Victim (Dec 19, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *After seeing The Twin Towers, I have decided that next round Zeus will teleport in 10,000 orcs. Angry ones.
> 
> Then next round, Zeus will teleport several dozen angry treants.
> 
> ...




Oh yeah, that reminds me.  The website for the only decent movie theater in town didn't mention that they were sold out for TTT today.  I walked an hour each way for nothing.  And yes, I know that could have easily been avoided if I'd called or something.


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## Berk (Dec 19, 2002)

> After seeing The Twin Towers, I have decided that next round Zeus will teleport in 10,000 orcs. Angry ones.
> 
> Then next round, Zeus will teleport several dozen angry treants.
> 
> And a flood.




snicker, ents kick ass!!!
So did the movie but that's a subject for a different thread. =o)


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## reapersaurus (Dec 19, 2002)

I've heard multiple people calling it The Twin Towers - is that a Freudian slip? 

And maybe the Gawds could talk reeeaaaalllllyyyy sllllooooowwwwww like the Ents did.

Or an archer could surf down some stairs while shooting a volley of arrows.


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## Number47 (Dec 19, 2002)

Looks like it's last call for boons. Hopefully Ancryx will post its' turn soon so I can see how bad all hell is going to break loose.


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## Victim (Dec 19, 2002)

If a dominated character kills someone while under orders to do so, who gets the points?

Let's go Terraism, I'll have a hard time posting tommorrow because I have a presentation and 2 finals in a row.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 19, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *If a dominated character kills someone while under orders to do so, who gets the points?
> 
> Let's go Terraism, I'll have a hard time posting tommorrow because I have a presentation and 2 finals in a row. *




Ancryx is the only player who hasn't given me a wish yet. 

Also, in the domination kill scenario, the dominated character gets 15 points, the dominator gets 5 points.


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## Number47 (Dec 20, 2002)

No update yet? Come on. Hurry, hurry, hurry.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 20, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *No update yet? Come on. Hurry, hurry, hurry. *




Ancryx emailed me that he can't get to the site. So he's working on his turn. Perhaps someone can mirror the turns/maps for people who can't get to slangdesign?


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## reapersaurus (Dec 20, 2002)

it's taken ancryx longer than 24 hours to post his action? 

HOW will Number47 stand the suspense?

the crowd is going wild at the immenent reality-warping of the Gawds....  INCOOOMMMMMIIIINNNNG!


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## Victim (Dec 20, 2002)

A Quest?  Wow.  I'm not sure how Martok could hear the command, since he's deaf, but the interpretation certainly is amusing.  It's, umm, better than nothing reaper.  Now you just have to make sure Martok wins if your characters die.

But now I think I might have to put Therron and Jade on the LIST for that.  Using the original wording, that was far cheesier than forcecage.  

Must have update . .. .


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

Victim said:
			
		

> *A Quest?  Wow.  I'm not sure how Martok could hear the command, since he's deaf, but the interpretation certainly is amusing.  It's, umm, better than nothing reaper.  Now you just have to make sure Martok wins if your characters die.
> 
> But now I think I might have to put Therron and Jade on the LIST for that.  Using the original wording, that was far cheesier than forcecage.
> 
> Must have update . .. . *




Oh wait, you're right! I totally forgot about the deafening.   Who thinks the quest should stay or be ruled void since Martok couldn't hear it?


----------



## Terraism (Dec 21, 2002)

Sorry people - for some reason, I wasn't able to get to the site until about 2, 2:30 this afternoon.  (Bloody "page unable to be displayed" message.)  I didn't bring it up 'till about noon-thirty 'cause I figured it wouldn't last long, but, whether it be chance or not, it wasn't long after I got that out before I could see it again... and I wasn't moving unless I could see the map again.  

Anyway, sorry to 'ave held people up; I'm always ready for Icitrx (I'm too lazy to check the correct spelling on that right now ) to take his turn, so I feel guilty for making people wait.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 21, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh wait, you're right! I totally forgot about the deafening.   Who thinks the quest should stay or be ruled void since Martok couldn't hear it? *




I'd ask Martok what he thinks - technically, I'd say that the _Quest_ goes.  On the other hand, it'd make a pretty cool theme in the match - so I'd go with whatever the most affected guy thinks...


----------



## Victim (Dec 21, 2002)

Since a god was talking to him, I'd imagine that petty things like being deafened wouldn't matter too much.  But asking the players most affected might be good too.

Dang it.  It's catching.  I can't see the page either now.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

Nor can I. I just emailed tech support.  and I was just about to post Ancryx's turn and the top of round 4 (a lot of stuff happens)

Oh and no more time for wishes. everything is final.


----------



## Twinswords (Dec 21, 2002)

Me three

Twinswords


----------



## Berk (Dec 21, 2002)

> Oh wait, you're right! I totally forgot about the deafening. Who thinks the quest should stay or be ruled void since Martok couldn't hear it?




You are right, I am deaf, hence the quest/geas has no effect on me since it is language dependent. =o)


----------



## Victim (Dec 21, 2002)

Berk said:
			
		

> *
> 
> You are right, I am deaf, hence the quest/geas has no effect on me since it is language dependent. =o) *




All that creative misinterpretation for nothing, eh?

It looks like it is working again.


----------



## green slime (Dec 21, 2002)

ARGGGHHHH!!!!!!! The Suspense!


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

green slime said:
			
		

> *ARGGGHHHH!!!!!!! The Suspense! *




omg the suspense is over!


----------



## Terraism (Dec 21, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> omg the suspense is over! *




Clockwork, you are a very very very bad man!  Bad man.  Evil to the core.

Can you teach me?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

Oh a final note: Some wishes were negated by other wishes.


----------



## Terraism (Dec 21, 2002)

About my effective wish - since I'm a lich, what happens if that _Contingency_ kicks in?


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 21, 2002)

Now for another round of praying I don't die before my next action!  *crosses fingers*


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 21, 2002)

you've got that rampaging gnome on your back, Hawkeye - careful, he might Bite.  

And since Berk didn't catch that he was deaf, and chose to respond, than he obviously heard the Quest, and it should apply. 

I would think that Zeus' nerfing of the spell rules as written in the core rulebook: Player's Handbook to Dungeons & Dragons, 3rd Edition would be enuff. 

Victim - what LIST are you referring to?
And how is protecting yourself from someone trying to kill you cheesy?


----------



## Number47 (Dec 21, 2002)

I can't see it now. Can somebody post whatever is updated here?


----------



## Terraism (Dec 21, 2002)

Just for you, Number47...



> Top of Round 4
> The clouds rumble and Zeus speaks "I have received all of your boons. And you shall receive them. However, I did not say you would receive the boon you asked for. In fact, all of you shall receive someone else's boon.
> 
> All of the fighters get a bad feeling in the pit of their stomaches. A very, very, very bad feeling. Except Ancryx. His stomach is a canopic paperweight back in his lair.
> ...


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 21, 2002)

Now we know why Clockwork was so eager to have a lich...
He just wanted to make all those undead-related one liners he's been saving up.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 21, 2002)

No boon for me?


----------



## Terraism (Dec 21, 2002)

Sir Hawkeye said:
			
		

> *Now we know why Clockwork was so eager to have a lich...
> He just wanted to make all those undead-related one liners he's been saving up. *




You've come to that conclusion as well?


----------



## Victim (Dec 21, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *you've got that rampaging gnome on your back, Hawkeye - careful, he might Bite.
> 
> And since Berk didn't catch that he was deaf, and chose to respond, than he obviously heard the Quest, and it should apply.
> 
> ...




The LIST.

It's the means of protecting your self that bother me.  I hate the Geas/Quest spell.  

I've equiped my character with a incredibly cheesy item.  Upon reflection, I decided that it was too cheap a trick to use and feel good about, so I only plan on using it against another character employing a cheap move.  That way, equilibrium is maintained.  But Landerin is ahead of you for targeting priority because he's immune to my defense.  But hopefully I won't end up using my trick.  

I bet Number47 was the one who asked for immunity to my AMF.  Thanks alot.  BTW, I asked for protection from other boons.  Apparently, Norm asked for the same thing - or someone else did, and when things got switched around, I ended up with a very similar wish.


----------



## Berk (Dec 21, 2002)

> And since Berk didn't catch that he was deaf, and chose to respond, than he obviously heard the Quest, and it should apply.




Fine with me =o), I just gotta make sure your physical bodies are kept safe. =o)


----------



## Number47 (Dec 21, 2002)

Victim, I wasn't the one who wished to be immune to your AMF. Quite frankly, I can't afford to think that far ahead right now. I wished for a scroll to returned to me. Thankfully, I had the wisdom to wish for something small. If I had wished for permanent True Strike, Tobias would now have that! I am still cheesed that I got nothing for a boon.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 21, 2002)

Well, from reading the various comments from many players on the Moveable Type pages, I would forward the observation that Clockwork....  you've gone too far.

Many people are put out, disappointed, confused, and upset about the way that you are interfering too much in the game play.

We THOUGHT this was going to be a Tournament between almost-epic characters that we designed and controlled.

I'm not saying that people aren't having fun.
Even for being screwed over as much as I have, I gotta admit I'm as glued to the action as Number47 is.

But when reading the comments of other players (and audience), I'm thinking that the amount of control the Gawds have over this GoD is too large.

A good DM knows when his players are having fun, and lets them do their thing when it comes to their turn.
He doesn't look for ways for him to get in the mix, with nerfed NPC's and even diety-level interfering in the actions of the players.

Are you running this GoD for us, or for yourself, basically?

Thoughts?

edit: I feel like editing this whole post out.
Who am I kidding, thinking that there can be objective discussion about the format of the Game, while clockwork is running it?
People would have to be insane (or suicidal) to say anything that agrees with my above post.
Sorry to waste a few lines of screen space...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

Agladan isn't even playing. He's just commenting. And as for the godly events, I designed the battle with them in mind to keep the game from becoming too predictable. In my opinion, the last game of death was a simple by the numbers affair which was fun but after the first few rounds, predictable. Everyone figured out everyone else's powers and then slowly fought a war of attrition. The events are not geared to screw any particular player over either. As you see, they mostly shake things up and keep players from settling into "I hit you, you hit me, let's see who runs out of HPs first" type game. The other godly interference comes from the "My God Likes me" advantage. Those events are pretty minor. 

And the kobolds and boon are the most dramatic events in the table. The rest focus more on changing the battlefield itself, such as a storm, or traps appearing, thus cutting off certain parts of the Arena.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 21, 2002)

I am casting my vote for clockworkjoe doing a damn fine job.

That's one vote for support, one vote for whining. Where do you stand?


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 21, 2002)

I won't resort to name calling, or personal attacks (like you do), but jesus, number47 - you are WAY out of line, and I'm sure all of us would appreciate you giving the personal attacks a rest.

I may be of the opinion that clockworkjoe is making some bad judgment calls in places for many people, but at least he can post messages in a mature manner.

Do you even know the definition of "whining"?
Do you know any other words?
Because you are obviously confused, or reading something I'm not writing.

Oh - some of the comments i was referring to were YOURS: 







> No boon for me?





> I am still cheesed that I got nothing for a boon.



 and from the comments on slangdesign.com:


> Of course, I got nothing at all. NOTHING!



 edited out ironic statement that referred to number47's hypocriticalness.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I won't resort to name calling, or personal attacks, but jesus, number47 - you are WAY out of line, and I'm sure all of us would appreciate you giving the personal attacks a rest.
> 
> I may be of the opinion that clockworkjoe is making some bad judgment calls in places for many people, but at least he can post messages in a mature manner.
> 
> ...




If you keep insulting people in this thread, I will kick you from the game. Piratecat nearly closed this thread once and if you start another flamewar, then you are gone. 

As for the comments, players have a tendency to say something sucked when it didn't benefit their character. I would hardly call those comments as players being 'upset' with how I run the game. They didn't like what happened with the wishes. Don't put words in their mouths.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 21, 2002)

hmm..   perhaps I've been over-estimating people in this thread.

It is hard to believe that you would ignore number47's attacks and constant haranguing, but then say _I'm_ the one insulting people.

I even used quotes to show my statement's validity and correct use of words and didn't misrepresent.

Very well - 
I will edit my post, since you completely missed the irony of you calling me for simply responding to number47 in kind.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 21, 2002)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *hmm..   perhaps I've been over-estimating people in this thread.
> 
> It is hard to believe that you would ignore number47's attacks and constant haranguing, but then say _I'm_ the one insulting people.
> 
> ...




I ignored Number47 because you're the one who is stirring up trouble. Also, Number47's comment was not nearly as bad as your comment was.  And you are insulting people.

To change topics slightly, I wonder what other character concepts did some of you think up? I was look at Tome and Blood a while ago, and it struck me that a wizard 5/Pale Master 10 would be pretty good for this match.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 22, 2002)

[john wayne] Well, ah, I don't wanna' be stirrin' up no trouble, sherrrriffff. [/john wayne]
as for other other characters, i think the strong spellcasting PrC's would be a good bet : The Spelldancer I tried, The Incantrix, the Red Wizard maybe.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 22, 2002)

Oh and my reasoning for 'nerfing the quest spell' as opposed to maze, forcecage, and enervation.

1. Maze is an 8th level spell and does not last that long, nor does it permanently cripple/harm the target. 8th level spells are supposed to be able to do things like that. There is a reason I restricted the purchase of level 8 and 9 spell scrolls. 

2. Forcecage has many, many remedies such as dimension door, gaseous form, etc. Forcecage also allows the target to cast spells through the cage, thus allowing the target a fair chance at fighting back if a spellcaster. Forcecage is also a level 7 spell. Level 7 spells also include limited wish and are generally pretty damn powerful. 

3. Enervation requires a ranged touch attack to work, and thus is protected by cover and concealment. An obscuring mist could help defend against it, for example. Also, enervation is remedied or prevented by several items and spells and is common enough that players could be reasonably expected to expect enervation. 

4. Quest, on the other hand, has absolutely no remedy other than a remove curse from a caster 2 levels higher than quest caster. It is a permanent screw over that players couldn't reasonably be expected to defend against. It is also level 6, which like Harm is a bit too powerful for its level, at least for this game.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 22, 2002)

I am disagreeing with clockworkjoe on the power of Quest, here. In an arena game, the Quest is of absolutely no significance. Whether it was screwed with or not, followed or not. The person only suffers penalty for each *full day* of not following the quest. Hopefully it won't take that long to finish this. I know I certainly would've just plain ignored it.

Read the spell again, it's useless.

Oh, and reapersaurus, I don't want to personally attack you. I just want you to stop stealing the joy out of the game. I have not heard one other person playing complain about clockworkjoe's overall handling of the game. Yes, some of us are very disappointed on how individual things turn out. We're supposed to be. If everything went our way, the game would be very boring. If I'm not disappointed, I'm not being challenged. As a final note, I will refer yet again to the fact that it was stated up front that the gods would be fooling around in the game.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 22, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I am disagreeing with clockworkjoe on the power of Quest, here. In an arena game, the Quest is of absolutely no significance. Whether it was screwed with or not, followed or not. The person only suffers penalty for each full day of not following the quest. Hopefully it won't take that long to finish this. I know I certainly would've just plain ignored it.
> 
> Read the spell again, it's useless.
> 
> Oh, and reapersaurus, I don't want to personally attack you. I just want you to stop stealing the joy out of the game. I have not heard one other person playing complain about clockworkjoe's overall handling of the game. Yes, some of us are very disappointed on how individual things turn out. We're supposed to be. If everything went our way, the game would be very boring. If I'm not disappointed, I'm not being challenged. As a final note, I will refer yet again to the fact that it was stated up front that the gods would be fooling around in the game. *




when you going to be sending your turn in holmes?


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## Berk (Dec 22, 2002)

> To change topics slightly, I wonder what other character concepts did some of you think up?




First I thought shadow adept, then I thought psychic warrior, then I thought constructor, but finally settled on red wizard =o)


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## reapersaurus (Dec 22, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Read the spell again, it's useless.*



Well, since I can't respond to your posts or clockwork's without being a "whiner", "sucking the enjoyment out of the game" (my, I have superpowers now!), or "stirring up trouble", I will gag myself again.

Except about Gaes/Quest :
number47, you should read Lesser Geas closer.


> "The geased creature *must* follow the given instructions until the geas is completed.
> <...>
> If the subject is *prevented* from obeying the lesser geas for a whole day...



(emphasis mine)
[gag back on]


----------



## Dr Midnight (Dec 22, 2002)

"Yyyyeah..."


----------



## Number47 (Dec 22, 2002)

My turn was sent in two days ago. I don't know what clockworkjoe is waiting for. Fingolfen to finish his Time Stop, I guess.


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## Berk (Dec 22, 2002)

Send your move to contact@slangdesign.com just in case. I had to send my move to that address cuz his normal e-mail wasn't working.


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## Hammerhead (Dec 22, 2002)

Oops, I accidently posted on my brother's account.  See below.


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## Victim (Dec 22, 2002)

Other character ideas?  I had a bunch - unfortunately, I came up with several after the game started.

First of all, I tried to figure out what kind of opposition I was going against.  I remembered what happened in the last game, and then looked through the Sultans of Smack, and the characters for the IC Smack! game in the rogue's gallery.

Based on the last game, and my knowledge of the FR stuff, I assumed that there'd be spellcasters with super high DCs.  These super high DC casters, and the prevalence of casters in the last game shaped my assumptions about the greatest threat.

First, I considered a fighter rogue character.  While versatile with skills and magic powered by UMD, he'd be out matched in most fights.  

Another character that's almost always worth considering is the humble Cleric.  Taking Hospitaler levels would round the character out without hindering his casting ability.  Clerics also have good saves.  However, I felt that the choice would be predictable and kind of boring.  But cleric is still a good all around class.

I then created the initial design for my current character.  However, because of some weaknesses in the design, I then began the Ring of 9 lives + killing machine concept.  But I came up with enough patchwork solutions (hopefully) for the character I'm using now, so I played that instead.

Lately, I've been thinking that a psychic warrior would be a strong choice.  Armed with good fighting powers and Use Psionic Device, the character could be very strong, especially if using 8th and 9th level psion powers from stones.

I also came up with a Cleric (Archer) character that would use Anti Life Field to keep people away.  And a Deepwood Sniper cohort armed with a wand of Hunter's Mercy would add to the long range fire.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 22, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *My turn was sent in two days ago. I don't know what clockworkjoe is waiting for. Fingolfen to finish his Time Stop, I guess. *




ok my smsu email is back. Apparently they were doing some kind of maintainence on the system so I couldn't access it yesterday. I Am processing your turn now dabbil.


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## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 22, 2002)

Rather ironically, I considered making a druid.


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## Berk (Dec 22, 2002)

Watch from the train, with her typewriter humming, cutting dreams down to size, again!!!

No you're never too o, ol, old to rock and roll, oh, oh, but he was too young to die!!!


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## Number47 (Dec 23, 2002)

I think I already mentioned the idea of a druid who specialized in mean bad evil Poison spells. The spell Delay Poison squashed the concept.

Another idea I had was to make a halfling conjurer who could stand inside an Evard's Black Tentacles and dish out his smack. Black tentacles do not attack Small creatures! Unfortunately, they aren't very useful at this level. I will probably do up that guy if there is a lower level GoD another time.

I also wanted to make a 15th level commoner. Would be funny if he actually killed someone.


----------



## green slime (Dec 23, 2002)

I was REALLY pressed for time to get this character together, Work was a ***** that final week. S I went for something different, for me, without much thought being put into it. Seen some stuff now I wish I had.

Last two games I played a cleric, nearly did it again. IMO, they are the best suited class for this game. But it would've been too boring.

I had a maxed out Archer type, that would have been enjoying himself in this game. I'll keep him around for a different game.


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## Number47 (Dec 23, 2002)

You want to know what the sick thing is? When my wife comes home from work, she tells me what happened at her job. I tell her what happened in the Game of Death. She's very sweet and pretends to be interested.


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## reapersaurus (Dec 23, 2002)

*starts calculating*
hmm...  at the average of over 8 hours per action in Round 4, my turn this round will be in three days.

At this pace, Therron will get out of the Maze in ... ~54 days.

guys, we NEED to pick up the pace a bit, wouldn't you think?


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## reapersaurus (Dec 23, 2002)

47 - while I tell my wife about some IC adventures on the boards, and she tolerates it, I wouldn't even think to bore her with these shenanigans.


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## Saepiroth (Dec 23, 2002)

wow, i need to actually read this thread rather than just the comments from now on; damn me and my not-normally-of-this-board self. rather entertaining drama, to say the least.

reaper; how do you know that it's going to take that long? isn't the minute/round length of a Maze highly variant?

anyway, now i wish i had payed more attention to what i was doing when i did character creation... afte balancing the blind***** feats in there, i forgot to get an eversmoking bottle! who needs invisiblity when you have smoke clouds? to be precise, smoke clouds that aren't penetrated by true seeing...

ah well. at least my Tumble is still available... you did decide to accept the OA tumble rules, right? i think you said you would in the SA thread, but i don't know if it was confirmed here...

regarding tumble;


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 24, 2002)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *
> 
> ah well. at least my Tumble is still available... you did decide to accept the OA tumble rules, right? i think you said you would in the SA thread, but i don't know if it was confirmed here...
> 
> regarding tumble; *




Yeah, one table from OA is not that hard to look up.


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 24, 2002)

Turn away!
When Animals Attack, Part I.

Clockwork, the icon my eagle has right now is just... odd, so I made a new one:


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## reapersaurus (Dec 24, 2002)

hawkeye - are you saying that you submitted your turn that long ago? 

I guess clockwork's really busy christmas shopping...  

Merry Christmas, everybody.

edit: we're movin' along briskly now!


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 24, 2002)

On the X-mas gift, I will hold it off until round 5 to make it fair to everyone. I just thought of the idea today.

Also, the nat 20 gift only applies to one roll, so a fighter type would still have to confirm a hit.


----------



## Azure Trance (Dec 24, 2002)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *On the X-mas gift, I will hold it off until round 5 to make it fair to everyone. I just thought of the idea today.
> 
> Also, the nat 20 gift only applies to one roll, so a fighter type would still have to confirm a hit. *




A fat man in a red suit will appear, and fly around in a caribou driven sled depositing each player a gift when queried.


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 25, 2002)

Better yet, a caribou-driven red slaad.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 25, 2002)

Sir Hawkeye said:
			
		

> *Better yet, a caribou-driven red slaad.  *




I like this idea. A lot.


----------



## Azure Trance (Dec 25, 2002)

But what would he (it) do? Do good things, bad things, or random chaotic things to each player?


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## Number47 (Dec 25, 2002)

No update for today?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Dec 25, 2002)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *No update for today? *




I'm giving Dr. Midnight an extra day to send his turn in


----------



## Berk (Dec 26, 2002)

My freakin mouse broke!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
grrrrrrr


----------



## Number47 (Dec 27, 2002)

My keyboard broke. I had to assemble this post with a laborious cut-and-paste of individual letters from past e-mails. It was quite a pain in the neck, I can assure you!

Sure am disappointed with the pacing these last couple of days. C'mon people! Clockworkjoe, was Vraketh's turn a "default" turn from you?


----------



## Sollir Furryfoot (Dec 27, 2002)

Reading through the thread and just a quick question, when you say smsu account clockwork, do you mean SMSU as in Springfield, Missouri?


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 27, 2002)

My monitor broke.

I've been printscreening and printing out all the pages blind to find out what's been going on.  

And actually, in 3 days, only 2 character actions.
I agree, Number47.

I had my action ready 7 days ago.
I modified it in the week since, and sent it yesterday.

While I understand a few delays (especially with the holidays), I'm curious how many people ARE sending their turns in ahead of time?

Is there something in the game that's particularly preventing actions from being stated ahead of time? (or at least having 2 different actions pre-decided, depending on the actions of 1 or 2 people who go before you that may impact your character)


----------



## Number47 (Dec 28, 2002)

It's really bothersome for the people who aren't in any conflict at the moment and are just buffing themselves anyways. A little bothersome for those who are in a conflict with one other person. Come on, you know you're going to attack them.

I always send in my action a couple actions before called for, but with a little disclaimer of "as long as stuff doesn't change for me". Clockworkjoe is a smart guy, he'll know when something really changes in your part of the battlefield.


----------



## Victim (Dec 28, 2002)

I don't send my actions in ahead of time.  The stuff that happens at the beginning of the round can change things enough that I want to know what happens, and, when I was going after Ancryx, I needed to see what he was doing before moving.  I don't think I've been slowing things down too much though.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 28, 2002)

Well, you are the top of the initiative order. I can't send a move before the between round stuff either, that would be foolish!

By the way, please read my short story and comment. Thank you.


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## clockworkjoe (Dec 28, 2002)

Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> *Reading through the thread and just a quick question, when you say smsu account clockwork, do you mean SMSU as in Springfield, Missouri? *




yes and the game will be pretty slow for the next week since I am busy with the holidays and so forth. My brother is home from japan and the rest of the family is here etc.


----------



## Number47 (Dec 28, 2002)

So we aren't getting a post a day?


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 28, 2002)




----------



## Number47 (Dec 28, 2002)

I thought reapersaurus had his move already in? Why not posted after Fingolfens?


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Dec 28, 2002)

I, personally, could have waited a bit longer for it.

Damn atmospheric noise. A six! A SIX!


----------



## JDragon (Dec 28, 2002)

Well,

Not that anyone missed me, but I'm back.   

Looks like things are moving along about the same as when I left a week and a half ago.

As for killing the Koblod,  i needed to do something before I just stopped and cut my own throat.   

But now I have a real target and will see if this basic character I threw togther at work is worth anything.

JDragon

AKA - Harsel "The Koblod Killing Dwarf!"


----------



## Number47 (Dec 30, 2002)

Anybody else starting to feel disheartened about this game? I'm still keeping my hopes up, but now I don't know if this one is going to get finished, either. The last two sure didn't go anywhere.


----------



## reapersaurus (Dec 30, 2002)

While I understand and share your concerns, 47, I wouldn't conclude that the game now won't finish, necessarily.

I will take clockwork at his word, that for this holiday week, he is unreachable, and I'll assume that we'll fire back up as soon as he is available again.

The question I have is whether or not all the players will be ready when that happens, and we try to collectively lower the average action time for each move.
That might be hard to do once we start back up again, since once a sense of urgency is lost in online gaming, (in my experience) it is very difficult to generate it again without a deliberate effort by all participants.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 1, 2003)

well, i figured out how to view old comments; clicking on a timestamp opens a new page with all the comments under the announcement, so you can browse comments thorugh the months list.

also, there is, as of right now, exactly ONE announcement visible on the site. if nothing is posted by friday, that number will become zero.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 1, 2003)

reapersaurus on page 16 said:
			
		

> *And I found out how to view older comments : click on the date in the calendar on the right. For each move, it lists the comments out (doesn't have you click the comments button to bring it up).
> It only shows one move's comments at a time, but at list you can get to 'em. *



Ya, I had to hunt to find that 'feature', also Seapiroth...

I love that comments feature, and think it's an invaluable addition to the overall game interaction between players.

Of course, this thread is too, but we're pretty much all holding our breath for clockwork, I'm guessing.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 4, 2003)

___@            ___@

           ______@              ____@


  ___@           _____@


Tumbleweeds...


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 4, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Anybody else starting to feel disheartened about this game? I'm still keeping my hopes up, but now I don't know if this one is going to get finished, either. The last two sure didn't go anywhere. *



I'll take your bump opportunity to agree with you now.


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## Azure Trance (Jan 5, 2003)

Get back to page one.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 6, 2003)

GODDAMNIT DON'T DIE


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## Number47 (Jan 7, 2003)

It's Monday, January 6th, 8:00 pm. No update. No nothing. Still hanging on, waiting...


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 7, 2003)

just updated whee. Sorry about the long delay, but the holidays took more out of me than I thought. I'm still very busy but I will be able to update again.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 7, 2003)

We are in full swing, just waiting for Ancryx's turn


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## JDragon (Jan 8, 2003)

Are people getting longer to respond due to the dealy until we get going good again? 

JDragon


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 10, 2003)

Ancryx's turn and top of round 5 posted. From now on, the 24 hour to post your turn will be strictly enforced.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 11, 2003)

oh dear, that's... quite a large army.

does the SRD have stats on psychic constructs?


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 11, 2003)

Yes, it does. Also check WOTC's site which has more information on astral constructs in their psionic section.

Also, note that the kobolds and golem disappeared because nothing was really happening to them. I have a tendency to remove things that aren't affecting the game.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 11, 2003)

excellent, thank you. though it seems that the D & D section of their site is dead.  probably an excuse to go to Barnes & Noble and exploit one of their reading chairs/pick up a copy the the psionic's handbook and MotW. 

though, one of those kobolds was doing something...
i just bet reapersaurus is going to be really rather unhappy that her disintigrate ioun stone is gone.


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## Number47 (Jan 11, 2003)

Martok is next, and I have been sitting here since Ancryx turn thinking to myself "do it, Martok, do it!" Then I actually bother to read the spell and find that Horrid Wilting would have no effect on undead and constructs. Well, maybe he has another devastating area affect spell around.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 11, 2003)

you can't dessicate robots and the dead. i guess. 

Cloudkill is always a crowd favorite, though, since everything in there not affected by the death effects automatically takes 1d10 damage with no saving throw.


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## Vychtorya (Jan 11, 2003)

wrong ID


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## reapersaurus (Jan 11, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *i just bet reapersaurus is going to be really rather unhappy that her disintigrate ioun stone is gone.  *



*throws up hands in exasperation*

Look, what does it matter if I'm not happy?
I'm glad you had the balls to say something, Seap, but really - clockwork can do no wrong, right, guys?

It's not like the kobold was within range of a certain charging, flying dragon-man... 

but actually i think it's going to take me a week or 2 to care about it - the too-long delay has kind of sucked the interest out of me for the game, which I'm sure is best for all involved.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 11, 2003)

ask nicely and a pile of rubbish might be retroactively added somewhere on the map/where the kobold used to be. you never know what common courtesy can do.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 11, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> **throws up hands in exasperation*
> 
> Look, what does it matter if I'm not happy?
> I'm glad you had the balls to say something, Seap, but really - clockwork can do no wrong, right, guys?
> ...




Had the kobold remained, it would have probably run to the west at full speed taking it into the temple.

Maturak's goals are not yours. I sincerely doubt he would have chased after a kobold when Hawkeye is helpless and an easy kill. Martok may have attacked the kobold or not. In either case, you would not have benefitted by them.  The whole point of the random events is to make the battle unpredictable.


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## Number47 (Jan 11, 2003)

Hawkeye is helpless, to everyone but Maturak. If Maturak attacks him, Hawkeye will be in the AMF and able to act. Unfortunately, he won't be able to run from Maturak nor use any potions and stuff. I rather hope that's how it goes down. I'm curious to see what happens.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 11, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Hawkeye is helpless, to everyone but Maturak. If Maturak attacks him, Hawkeye will be in the AMF and able to act. Unfortunately, he won't be able to run from Maturak nor use any potions and stuff. I rather hope that's how it goes down. I'm curious to see what happens. *




Good point. Hawkeye is in a tight spot. But I doubt Maturak would have chased after a kobold that couldn't have helped him in any case.


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## Number47 (Jan 11, 2003)

Rale Hawkeye is in a tight spot, indeed. But at least Maturak cannot coup de grace him. Macallan, on the other hand, can. He would have to get free first and find him, though. I suppose just about anybody could teleport there and do the job.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 11, 2003)

clockwork - everything you said is completely correct.
I know that Maturak's actions are his own, and that the kobold could have moved in any direction.

However, the fact that you can talk about different actions that could have been done proves that those actions should have taken place.

In other words - _why are you posting the options of what COULD have happened in this thread, instead of posting what DID happen on the Game of Death site?_


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## Saepiroth (Jan 11, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *In other words - why are you posting the options of what COULD have happened in this thread, instead of posting what DID happen on the Game of Death site? *


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 11, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *clockwork - everything you said is completely correct.
> I know that Maturak's actions are his own, and that the kobold could have moved in any direction.
> 
> However, the fact that you can talk about different actions that could have been done proves that those actions should have taken place.
> ...




 

All I wanted to say is that you weren't going to benefit from the kobold in any case whatsoever, so bitching about the kobold disappearing is moot. 

The kobolds and golem disappeared more so that I had less stuff to keep track of and that they weren't altering the game in a meaningful way. You had a chance to stop/affect the kobold. For example, had you asked the kobold to simply destroy the wall or teleport both of you (which he could have done) out of the cage, you could have succeded. However, you asked him to give back a stone which is something he would never agree to.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 11, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> * *



What I said was confusing?
hmm..   
(I just thought for a few minutes of how else to word it to try to get across to you, but I can't think of anything better so I guess I won't )

If you really expect me to believe that you would have let me benefit from the kobold's actions, after artificially making it immune to everything my character *can* do OR did, I don't think you've been following things that closely.  

So I guess I didn't second-guess you correctly, or find the things you WOULD let me do instead of the things you wouldn't allow me to?
In retrospect, WHY would the kobold have done something for me (let me out of the Cage) out of the goodness of his heart, when my plan (which benefitted him) didn't work?

I don't know...  everything I sent to you, everything I had Jade do, you presented some reason why it didn't work, so....think about it from my side, for a second : why would I think anything else than you didn't want her out of the Cage?


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## Saepiroth (Jan 11, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> In retrospect, WHY would the kobold have done something for me (let me out of the Cage) out of the goodness of his heart, when my plan (which benefitted him) didn't work?*



 think about it from the "kobold's" position.
"hmm... expensive Vibrant Purple ioun stone or four crappy dull gray ioun stones? I KNOW WHICH I WANT"

compared to the other situation.
 "hey, use this ioun stone- AND KEEP IT- so that i can then go get more stones. why, I never thought of that suggestion, miss jade, because i am a stupid kobold! i will do that now!"


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 11, 2003)

From the Kobold's viewpoint:

1. Goal: Collect all non grey Ioun Stones. Stay alive. Use collected Ioun Stones to survive and gather more stones. Keep Ioun Stones at all costs. I don't care about the gladiators except that they can kill me and they have the stones that I want. 

2. I am in a forcecage. I have several stones that would allow me to escape (gaseous form, dimension door, plus my new dinsitingerigate) I'm not sure which one I should use. 

3. If Jade were to suggest that I use dim door or disint. I will because then she will be less likely to attack me in the future. I will not suggest since I don't care about her and don't want to wait to negotiate. Otherwise, I will use gaseous form since that will afford me some protection (DR 20/+1).


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## reapersaurus (Jan 12, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * think about it from the "kobold's" position.
> "hmm... expensive Vibrant Purple ioun stone or four crappy dull gray ioun stones? I KNOW WHICH I WANT"*



umm...  I guess you forgot the offer Jade suggested.

it doesn't matter.
drop it.
no good can come of talking about it.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 12, 2003)

Dabbil: Zalilad took 4d6 falling damage, which was rolled to 8. It is in the entry.


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## Berk (Jan 12, 2003)

mmmmmm, falling trees =o)


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 12, 2003)

One question for all the math experts out there: is my math about the weight of the tree off? If so, how?


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## Berk (Jan 12, 2003)

Oak averages about 48 pounds per cubic foot. Now that is white oak, not red, but white is the more common variety. You asked. =o)

Now to determine the cubic footage of a 60' tall 6' diameter tree. Well there are a ton of ways to do this but let me give you the correct way. =o) 

Volume of Log = (L) x (G/4) x (G/4) = (1/4) x (1/4) x (L) x (G) x (G) = 0.0625 x (L) x (G) x (G)

L=length and G=girth=circumfrence=pi*d

So from the formula above we get 0.0625*60*18.8*18.8=1325.4 hoppus cubic feet or 26.508 hoppus cubic tons.

A hoppus ton is equal to rougly 1.8 cubic meters or 63.567 cubic feet. So 26.508*63.567=1685 cubic feet, roughly. So that is 80880lbs or just over 40 tons. 

And btw, pi(r*r)h=v is also a good easy way to calculate it. Just the formula given above is the technical formula for figuring out the volume of timber.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 12, 2003)

Another edit: I ruled that dropping a tree would be a ranged touch attack, and Maturak was flat footed for the attack. Also, the tree has a 6 foot diameter. It covers an entire square. It is pretty easy to hit someone with with an object that big.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 12, 2003)

all it makes me wish for is that i had thought to buy a few tree-shaped Quall's Feather Tokens for myself.  

hey, clockwork... whatever you decide on that ruling i asked for, post it here. i'm not retyping it because you might decide that it does something wholly different than the two options i considered.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 12, 2003)

About Ancryx's resistances:

1. Ancryx had to use his christmas gift natural 20 to save from the Disint. spell. 

2. I assumed Flesh to Stone doesn't work on undead, but I may be wrong. Is there an official ruling?


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## Berk (Jan 12, 2003)

> 2. I assumed Flesh to Stone doesn't work on undead, but I may be wrong. Is there an official ruling?




well it requires a fort save and doesn't affect objects so undead are immune to it. =o)


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## reapersaurus (Jan 12, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Another edit: I ruled that dropping a tree would be a ranged touch attack, and Maturak was flat footed for the attack. Also, the tree has a 6 foot diameter. It covers an entire square. It is pretty easy to hit someone with with an object that big. *



those are some pretty big House Rules you're dropping there, cj.
To benefit Martok that much with House Rules ..... well, either Victim has a prodigious ability to hold his tongue for fear of you getting defensive and retributive, or he hasn't read it yet.

There are many rules questions over the years raised about dropping objects on people from great heights.
None of them have been answered in the rules.
[edit] Most people consider it twinky, newbie-tactics that shouldn't enter into most gameplay. [/editorial]

Your ruling that he's flat-footed is an insult to reality.
How do you drop a 60 tree on someone and be flat-footed? 
The tree isn't invisible. It would take around 3 seconds for it to fall that distance (total guess)
And it's not a ranged touch attack - the tree is not a projectile weapon - its effectiveness in combat is COMPLETELY dependant on how it falls on Maturak.

It's just as likely that the tree buffets him with a couple limbs and the trunk hits the ground beside him.
There is NO way that the tree would do ALL its weight damage to the target - it's just not meant to be used that way.

Most importantly, you are ignoring the cardinal rule of DM'ing that I've heard people bring up in all these similar discussions over the years:
*Do not allow something a greater in-game effect than the item is worth.*

The Tree is a 100 gp token.
Minor magical item, a couple steps up from a dull grey ioun stone.

Now if you REALLY will brook no reasonable questions about the House Rules that you are trotting out, than just say so, and I will ask you no more questions.
But if you are trying your best to run a game that's close to reality, or close to 3E rules, than i would think that you would want to get them right, and be open to what the group's feelings are about what you rule.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 12, 2003)

umm..  isn't Maturak standing right next to the 20' high Forcecage?

Since when should a non-aerodynamic weapon 60' long with a 40' top be granted the ability to drop ALL it's damage in a 5' square on Maturak?

It's just as likely to hit nearby him and expend the majority of it's damage on the ground nearby Maturak.

It's also MORE likely that it would hit the Forcecage first.

Ahh...  the irony of Martok getting screwed by his own screw-spell is delicious.


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## Berk (Jan 12, 2003)

if I recall correctly a falling object travels around 300' a round in game mechanics. marturak is flat-footed essentially because I am invisible and the attack originated from me, hence no dex mod to ac. 

if you wanna add reality into a fantasy game I can come up with several accurate reasons why what happened happened. I could also come up with several very far fetched but completely accurate reasons also just for the loving sake of quantum mechanics. 

now we can all just say, well what happened happened so live with it. I actually asked clockwork about the tree tokens before the game. Going around insulting someones ingenuity just because you happened to get the very short end of a stick in the first part of the game is silly and childish. 

Before you start raving about something inane again you should just be lucky that my character forgot to use one of his most powerful weapons. I won't say what it is, since it will give too much away about my char, but since I forgot about it before play began I can't use it at all. Which sucks cuz well, several people prolly woulda been dead already if I remembered.

Ok, my rant is done.


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## SA-Jinx (Jan 12, 2003)

Berk said:
			
		

> Ok, my rant is done.




Ingenious? Certainly. Fair? Not really...

While I think its funny that Mr FancyPants McLizardBoy got his ass handed to him by an oak tree - you got 90 damage for 100gp. Thats hardly fair.

Finally, while I think this game is fun and its not likely I win will because my character isn't twinked enough - I do think the number of "house rules" being thrown around and such makes for very unpredictable and frustrating play.

I know because I've fallen into a similar trap. I think it would have been a good idea to atleast discuss something this significant with players before making a decision.

And I'm still annoyed the lich survived my disintegrate, damn that would have been hilarious if he'd been toasted.


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## Hammerhead (Jan 13, 2003)

Allow me to state, that as a non-participant in this GoD, who is very annoyed at large amount of griping done by players, I find two actions, arbitrarily ruled by clockwork joe, to be horribly unfair. Both invovle Martok. The first is the ruling of Jade's Quest spell, which, although broken to begin with, was treated unfairly by Martok's interpretation of it; killing someone is not protecting them.  However, this action is done with. 

However, the ruling of the tree is completely unfair. A 100 gp item should not be able to cause 90+ points of damage, with no real way to avoid it. I mean, a ranged touch attack? 

Dropping a tree could be likened to using other large, heavy objects, like boulders launched from a catapult; treat it as a siege weapon, and Martok gets no base attack or dexterity.

If it is not treated like a siege weapon, then perhaps a Deflect Arrows feat could used to knock it out of the way. Clearly, DA could not knock it out of the way, but treating it as a siege weapon is a way to make it immune to DA and still maintain internal consistency.

Further, a Reflex save could be allowed to move out of the way of the tree. Another fair way to handle the situation. True, the tree covers a wide area, but a fireball covers more area and allows a save.

However, long wooden objects like trees spin when they are dropped through the air, and their large surface area with many branches, twigs, roots, etc. make it impossible that the entire mass of the tree could be distributed upon one target.

Further, Maturak is next to a cube of force. If the spinning tree clipped it, which it likely would, it could miss Maturak completely, or at least not strike Maturak with full force.

One could also argue that the tree, springing from a feather token, is a magical effect that would be unable to affect anyone in an Antimagic Shell.

The current interpretation of Martok's Tree of Death (TM) completely destroys any semblance of game balance or internal consistency in this game. Would the gods allow the most powerful weapon in the battlefield to be a tree? I think not! The ruling on the Tree of Death currently lends credence to reapersaurus's claims of clockwork joe's unfairness.

Oh, and Berk/Martok, I'm sure that everyone is real thankful that you forgot to use your uber ability that everyone would have no chance against. /e rolls eyes.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 13, 2003)

berk; a suggestion.

did you ever _explicitly_ drop that wine goblet that was made by the wish a few rounds ago? apperently, it bequaths the effect of some sort of healing spell. potentially, an actual _Heal_. in that case, take a hit off it and be healed of that and the damage from before. it doesn't counter the incredible unfairness of being slammed all to fcuk* by a 100 GP item, but you do have to remember than the gnome had to make a reflex save to remove the oak tree when a feather token was used before. one must wonder what would have happened if he had failed...
I personally think a rerolling by treating you as having half cover from the edge of the forcecage and allowing you a reflex save for damage avoidance would be in order. you should have been able to move off through the branches as it came down around you. and if it fell bottom first, then the roots would have assuredly skipped off the cage. a significantly sized oak tree has thick maintrunk roots out about as wide as it's canopy, and light roots that potentially go out about as wide as it is tall.

though, i do find the decided unfairness entertaining. you see, though it may not be appropriate to an actual Game of Death in your opinions, i think that it has some good merit. i think it should continue to be played out as the pure thought exercise that it is, and that final scores should not be added to GoD totals unless there is a consensus by objective observers at the end of the game. 

of course, to explain my affection for the disorder, i am a fan of adding randomness to everything; that includes armor rolls and hardlined 1/20 rulings. take me with a pinch of salt.


*censorship! "oh noes!"


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## Number47 (Jan 13, 2003)

I guess I better pipe up on the Tree of Death, too, since everyone is.

First, there are obviously no rules to fully cover this scenario. Whatever clockworkjoe decided HAD to be houseruled. Second, there are rules for how falling objects to damage and cwj seemed to try to follow these. Third, the first thing I said when I read it was "you can't do that, a tree token has to be tossed on solid ground". Then I read the item again. It creates a huge, non-magical tree, no restrictions noted. I see no way that cwj could have said no to it. So, in essence, I basically agree with how he ruled everything because he is the DM and seemed to have at least tried to figure it out.

On the other hand, I wouldn't have done it the same way. If we all posted the way we thought it should be done, I think we would wind up with about twelve different methods. Offhand, I think I would have made into an area attack of, say, a twenty foot radius centered on character with ranged touch to hit. On a miss of the ranged touch, use grenade-like weapons chart. Damage in the radius would be something on the order of 8d6 on the low end, maybe 12d6 on the high end regular physical damage, reflex save for half. Not sure what DC I would set the save, but you get the idea of how I would do it.

All in all, I think Maturak would have taken a hefty amount of damage from the tree regardless. Yes, it is a little cheesy to get so much from a cheap magic item. It is also cheesy to have AMF in an arena setting, or to be able to cause three hundred points of damage from a single charge. We all have a few cheesy things up our sleeves. This is the game we're playing.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 13, 2003)

Obviously the tree is a touchy issue. I've decided to change my ruling a bit. I should also say, part of the reason the tree trick worked so well is because it was unexpected. Even for seasoned characters, having a tree appear and fall on you is a bit unexpected. 

An attack must make a ranged touch attack with a -10 penalty regardless of distance. Maturak was flat footed for this because he could not see the invisible. He did hear the tree right before it hit, thus, Maturak is allowed a DC 10 reflex save (which he made) for half damage.  The tree does 20d6 damage (max for falling). Since characters will be expecting this from now on, Characters who make both a a DC 20 listen check and a DC 10 reflex save avoid the tree entirely. If a character only makes 1 check, half damage is taken.

To be honest, I'm surprised this got that kind of reaction. Macallan transformed into a massive dragon and Ancryx has an army of very powerful constructs. 

Personally, I would like to hear what other GMs would rule on that trick. A tree token is not very balanced when viewed in this light, but about 3/4 of the characters here are pulling similar tricks. 

As for the tree spinning side to side, I don't think a cylinder with its weight evenly distributed falling 100 feet with no crosswinds going would rotate that much.


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## green slime (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, as an opinion has been asked for, I would have ruled that the tree token cannot spring into being in midair, that it would need to be cast upon the ground.

Regarding dropping items on people, the attack roll would suffer non-proficiency penalty, and that, seen from above, would give the target a bonus to AC as ranged attacks versus a prone target. Miss as per a Grenade attack. Then, the damage from the weight would be divided by the number of 5 feet squares and applied over all within the area, with a Reflex save equal to the number of dice of damage.

I really detest falling objects as weapons...


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## Saepiroth (Jan 13, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Obviously the tree is a touchy issue. I've decided to change my ruling a bit. I should also say, part of the reason the tree trick worked so well is because it was unexpected. Even for seasoned characters, having a tree appear and fall on you is a bit unexpected.  *



 hey, i really liked it. i can just see that some people could have taken it in a REALLY pissed off manner.

you probably should have just mentioned that you were only rolling it as 20d6 and he got a medium-bad roll. i think without dice listed people assumed the worst.

edit; oh yes, a question about the forcebubble... is it impervious to spells (and psionics) like a type 2 forcecage? or is it just a physical entrapment?


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 13, 2003)

green slime said:
			
		

> *Well, as an opinion has been asked for, I would have ruled that the tree token cannot spring into being in midair, that it would need to be cast upon the ground.
> 
> Regarding dropping items on people, the attack roll would suffer non-proficiency penalty, and that, seen from above, would give the target a bonus to AC as ranged attacks versus a prone target. Miss as per a Grenade attack. Then, the damage from the weight would be divided by the number of 5 feet squares and applied over all within the area, with a Reflex save equal to the number of dice of damage.
> 
> I really detest falling objects as weapons... *




That seems a little more dangerous as it lets Martok hit more than one person at a time and the tree would do 20d6 damage since it easily weighs over 40 tons. And a -4 to hit and a+4 to ac only gives a -8 penalty but then armor would factor in. 

Well, I don't want everyone to see me as biased so I did change the ruling. I didn't give it as much thought as I should. Sorry if I worsened your opinion of the game 

edit to say that the beads of force is going to be treated as a forcecage, the type that is completely enclosed since that seems to be the spirit of the item. 

edit again to say that my quest ruling is also based on my dislike of the spell. I also allowed Jade to switch out any quest spells she had with other level 6 cleric spells.


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## Victim (Jan 13, 2003)

Wow, I didn't even have to post anything myself.  While I didn't like the idea of a tree doing all its falling and weight damage to one guy, the first 90 point attack is survivable.  I found the idea of Martok dropping cheap 100 gp trees for 10 rounds on every character with a lower altitude far worse.  

Just to reply to some earlier comments, originally, reaper planned to give me Martok's coordinates as I closed in.  Then I could charge and grapple him and have very good chances.  The text in my action about hunting Hawkeye was so I'd have a plausible reason to move into that area.  That way, Maturak could beat up a wimpy wizard , and reaper wouldn't have his cohort killed.  Later on, I planned to kill the kobold and take his stuff.  I could identify the stones at my leisure, and, if there were 2 or more methods of escaping a forcecage, I could pass the crappy one to Jade or Therron.  I'd probably gain alot of altitude before doing so, though.

Also, Maturak should be on the ground.


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## Number47 (Jan 13, 2003)

The pace is going really well. I was afraid that it wouldn't after the slowdown. Very happy. Now, let's get to Zalilad's turn so I can focus on how to kill him.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 13, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Wow, I didn't even have to post anything myself.  While I didn't like the idea of a tree doing all its falling and weight damage to one guy, the first 90 point attack is survivable.  I found the idea of Martok dropping cheap 100 gp trees for 10 rounds on every character with a lower altitude far worse.
> 
> Just to reply to some earlier comments, originally, reaper planned to give me Martok's coordinates as I closed in.  Then I could charge and grapple him and have very good chances.  The text in my action about hunting Hawkeye was so I'd have a plausible reason to move into that area.  That way, Maturak could beat up a wimpy wizard , and reaper wouldn't have his cohort killed.  Later on, I planned to kill the kobold and take his stuff.  I could identify the stones at my leisure, and, if there were 2 or more methods of escaping a forcecage, I could pass the crappy one to Jade or Therron.  I'd probably gain alot of altitude before doing so, though.
> 
> Also, Maturak should be on the ground. *




Yeah, I'll change maturak's status in a bit. And as I said earlier, part of the reason why the tree trick worked so well the first is because no one expected it. From now on, characters are going to be looking above their heads..


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## reapersaurus (Jan 13, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *edit again to say that my quest ruling is also based on my dislike of the spell. I also allowed Jade to switch out any quest spells she had with other level 6 cleric spells. *



*forcibly gagging myself for the harmony of the game.*

However, as to the Tree of Death maneuver, 2 things:
1) It's not unexpected, or original. People have talked about dropping things on people for years, and it's always been problematic, at best. I'll stop there, though I've got more. (Now that the TreeofDeath (TM) attack has magically changed status to be "Expected", why would the mechanics change?)

2) Just to clarify:
There's currently nothing that's stopping your pal Berk from continuing to drop trees on people and getting a 10d6 attack.
Ranged touch attacks are pathetically easy, a DC 20 Listen check is incredibly hard to notice a tree the size of a building that's directly above you. Shouldn't it be a DC 10 Spot check? I doubt if someone would miss a tree so big it blocks out the sun. 
(There is such a thing as peripheral vision) What time is it in game, anyway? Is there a sun overhead? And a DC 10 Reflex save is automatic, hence you just granted Berk a 10d6 ranged attack with 100 gp ammunition.

You made up ALL those rules.
It is not OK to _make up_ rules, clockwork.
Please stop doing so in an uneven manner.
Strictly by the rules (neglecting the spirit of the rules), green slime is exactly correct: there is no rule in the game that suggests that trees can form in mid-air.
I'm sure that Quall intended that his tree tokens would be the kind that are firmly rooted in the ground (there _are_ no other kinds of trees).


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## Dr Midnight (Jan 13, 2003)

"It's Clockwork Joe, he's holding me back!"

"But Reapersaurus...  He's the DM, what he says goes. You aren't in any kind of position to preach to him and whine all day about piddley little rules calls."

*sniffle* "Well I SHOULD be."







Awwwwwwwwwwwww


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## Saepiroth (Jan 13, 2003)

reaper... as a counter, there is no rule in the book that says that it cannot. 


			
				Dr Midnight said:
			
		

> *"It's Clockwork Joe, he's holding me back!"
> 
> "But Reapersaurus...  He's the DM, what he says goes. You aren't in any kind of position to preach to him and whine all day about piddley little rules calls."
> 
> ...




i APPLAUD you!


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## reapersaurus (Jan 13, 2003)

darn .
I blissfully thought that Dr. Midnight was staying quiet.

Nice to see his personal definitions of "DM", "preaching", "whining", and "piddly little rules calls" are still intact.

Also nice to have a player try to manipulate the situation and try to say it's ME that's causing it all, or that I'm the only person that sees a problem. 

Sorry, Doc - you can't get away with that now - the shams been pointed out by OTHERS.

But I appreciate your sense of humor, all the same - that's a particularly humorous analogy - Bravo, as usual.

So Doc - don't hide behind innuendo and humor:
if you were the "DM", what would you have done different from clockwork to avoid the problem he caused with personal biases and house rulings?


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## Dr Midnight (Jan 13, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Nice to see his personal definitions of "DM", "preaching", "whining", and "piddly little rules calls" are still intact.*



Yeah, I'm an odd one. I have weird definitions for things that need putting quotations around. I'm "difficult" like that. If only I'd shut my damn mouth (metaphorically) and quit complaining every time you come in here to see how the game's going. "Shame" on "me".


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## Hammerhead (Jan 13, 2003)

Well, actually he is, because many of these rules calls seem unfair. DMs rules calls are supposed to be fair. Hence, an unfair rules call is no rules call, or something like that. And given that this GoD, unlike other D&D games, is entirely based on rules, I think reaper is fully justified in his complaining. If CJ arbitrarily declared that Norman Witherspoon started dancing and taking off his clothes, and then CDG'd himself with his rapier, or that no, sorry, rapiers are too powerful, and their new stats have only a 19-20 crit range, that you would be upset and whining. 

However, I don't think dropping a tree is very original either. People have been talking about dropping stuff for years, to cause obscene amounts of damage. 

The difference between Maturak's AMF and reaper's Shield Bash of Massive Bludgeoning is that each of those characters structured themselves around their ability to do it; Maturak has found a way to get non-magic flight, adamantine weapons, large size, etc. all non-magically, making him brutal inside his shell. It took skill and cleverness to do this, as well as severly limiting his effectiveness outside of his trick. reapersaurus, likewise, can murder anyone on a charge, but without charging, he's far less dangerous. His items, feats, and classes have been structured towards this one end.

Martok just bought a couple 100gp trees and started dropping them, neither building his character around it nor severely limiting his options. The only real surprise in such a maneuver, since every week or so someone talks about dropping lead balls from flight to kill dragons or something equally stupid, is that clockwork joe allowed such a cheesy maneuver.

Even as a Reflex half effect, the trees allow brutal damage at very low cost. If I join the next game of death, I expect everyone will start dropping those things on all non-rogues. Maybe everyone should just seal themselves off with walls of force to prevent "Death from Above."

Commenting on the Quest spell fiasco, sure, it may be disliked, but someone should anticipate the use of the broken spell, and rule that it will be ineffective, rather than allowing reaper to waste one of his precious few actions to cast it.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 13, 2003)

!!!


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 13, 2003)

I made the check listen instead of spot, because you would hear it before you would notice the shadow and look up. I would assume characters would be watching a lot of things besides the ground. However, to be nice, I will allow   Also, If you make both checks you take no damage. And Martok has to be directly above you for it to work. 

As for the 10d6 damage being unfair, I don't see how it is. You could have pulled the same thing with a bag of boulders or even an extra large bag of holding and some anvils. Hell, someone could have bought 20 bags of holding and filled each bag with acid and then telekinesised it overy Maturak's head. Dropping very large things over someone's head isn't very hard to do in 3E D&D and it is very very damaging. 

As for me being unfair, I haven't banned/punished anyone for criticizing me/the game and I won't unless someone starts a flame war that gets this thread closed or something similar. I have altered several rulings that people have complained about because the rulings were widely regarded as unfair. 

Most importantly, I have been INCREDIBLY SLACK about characters (Reaper punished it way too far). For example, Ancryx's advantage is that he is a lich. For no cost. I won't mention the other things I've let go because that would compromise the players involved.  I think the best evidence that I'm not playing favorites is being so generous to most of the players that wanted unusual things for their character. 

I am not a rules lawyer. I try to follow the rules as closely as possible but I can't bring myself to obsess over them. I know I'm going to get some rulings wrong so I just try to be as fast and as accurate as possible. And of course I bring my own personal prejudices and biases to the table. Any GM would. 

Finally, if you don't like how I am running the game, then please, pretty please start your game of death! I would honestly love to see more of these games being run. All I know is that I probably won't run another one, at least not in the immediate future, because it is too much work with too little reward. I am getting tired of many people accusing me of all kinds of crimes for running this game. (don't worry, I will see this game through.)


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## Azure Trance (Jan 13, 2003)

I've been following this thread since it first began and thought (still do) it's great to see PCs battle it out; but the constant bickering by Reaper really downplays it. I can't remember them all; perhaps some of them truly were a mistake, or unjustified, but it seems every post by him says that there's something wrong / not right / should be fixed in the game.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 13, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I probably won't run another one, at least not in the immediate future, because it is too much work with too little reward. I am getting tired of many people accusing me of all kinds of crimes for running this game.*





you know, Jinx's game on SA was town under by constant bickering, too.  this isn't an ACTIVE death, by no means, but your slightly SA inspired style is, well, just really appealing.

i repeat,


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 13, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> you know, Jinx's game on SA was town under by constant bickering, too.  this isn't an ACTIVE death, by no means, but your slightly SA inspired style is, well, just really appealing.
> ...




well I need some time to recharge after this thing is done regardless of what happens. 

but I'm curious about Jinx's game. What happened? I tried to follow it but I just don't have time. 

Also, one last thing about the tree token:

This 100 GP magic item slew a dragon in Piratecat's game. A very big dragon. Don't forget that.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 14, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *but I'm curious about Jinx's game. What happened? I tried to follow it but I just don't have time. *



 i think he should probably explain himself; he stopped it pretty suddenly. actually, he stopped it about two rounds before i got to join in with this fellow. it's superficially unbalanced as all hell, due to the chaos, and the bending of the item creation rules, but i was going to play it up to it's lasheresque hilt. and i wouldn't be able to use any of the special stuff until i "discovered" it anyway, so... ah well. i've soared off on a tangent. what i mean to say is that Jinx should probably explain himself, because A) i'm not so sure I have a grip on it, myself, and B) anything i say will probably be heavily tainted by dissapointment.

however... you may find these threads interesting. we've stirred up a good bit of D&D interest on the SA forums, now, so perhaps you might want to try a GoD again eventually with some people with their quality insured by the omniscient 10 dollar shield. and of course, selected invites from here; to be precise, invites for everyone playing now who isn't reaper. 

Jinx's game thread (closed, sadly )

Jinx's Discussion thread (last two pages = CHOCK FULL O' SORROWS)

DanSTC's game&comments thread (the final currently existing hope for D&D on SA. a module, admittedly, but every player slot filled in about ten minutes, and that includes the time it took me to drop my reserved slot. i wish i hadn't now... i originally thought i would be playing in Jinx's game and so decided to leave it open for someone who couldn't play there. oops, i guess. )


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## reapersaurus (Jan 14, 2003)

Azure Trance said:
			
		

> *perhaps some of them truly were a mistake, or unjustified, but it seems every post by him says that there's something wrong / not right / should be fixed in the game. *



maybe you should read some of my (currently) 69 posts again - "every post by me" is not as you're remembering.

I actually just typed a long post offering my hand to clockwork to leave his past rulings in the past, and concentrating on what the rest of the Game brings us all, but that was just eaten by my computer freezing.

So while I am offering to let bygones be bygones, I can't believe that people are making it out like I've also caused a "problem" here.
I voiced my view of what happened to Maturak, and many people commented on how they saw it (they seemed to have valid concerns, it seemed).

While clockwork admitted he didn't think it thru right, he seems open to making sure his rulings are accepted by the group.

I hope no reader of this thread thinks that happened on its own:
I have no doubt that unless I had voiced my concerns, we would all be stuck with a GoD that lost all sense of reasonable play, with 100 gp items doing 20d6 damage with no save.

This is a collaborative simulation, and I think all of us play our parts.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 14, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I can't believe that people are making it out like I've also caused a "problem" here.*




the squeaky wheel gets the grease.

the loose nail gets the hammer.

the indiscreet mob informant gets the 9mm round to the back of the skull.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 14, 2003)

...


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## Azure Trance (Jan 14, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *... *



Why is her hair shaped into bunny ears?


----------



## Bhaal (Jan 14, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *the squeaky wheel gets the grease. *



In a surplus economy, the squeaky wheel gets replaced .

There's something to be said about joining someone else's game, and as soon as issues come up immediately questioning the creator's ability, credibility and integrity instead of trying to dicuss it in a civil manner.  There's a difference between saying "I think this was bad judgment on the DM's part" and "I think this was bad judgement and OH MY GOD THE DM IS FORCING US INTO THIS GAME JUST SO HE CAN JUST PLAY FAVORITES AND BE AN UNFAIR GRUDGEMONGER AND MAKE BAD RULINGS TO MESS WITH US!!".  Apparently there's no room for slip-ups; as soon as he makes a bad call it's construed as intentional, malicious and personal.  If clockwork is such a purposfully unfair DM, why do you play in his games?

I'm not saying this to start a flamewar, hear me out.  I've got no problems with people disagreeing with and even arguing some of the DM's calls.   Everyone is pulling tricks up their sleeve and a large number of them are not easily defined by the rules.  To make things worse, it's other PCs who are the ones affected by the non-standard activities (and the on-the-fly rules that dictate them), so anything that needs a jugement call is always going to be under scrutiny by SOME side.  Keep in mind that this will happen no matter who's running it, due to the nature of the game.  In short: no matter who was running this, there is bound to be contraversial decisions by the DM.  

That being said, it's completely counterproductive--to both your argument AND the game morale--to immediately attach ad hominem insinuations as the source of the debated judgement call; it's immature.  On top of that, implying that people don't bring up issues because they're in fear of CWJ "getting defensive and retributive" steals EVEN MORE credibility to ANY POINT you are trying to make, because all of a sudden any point you do try to make seems to revolve around the DM being a horrible, awful person.  He who slings mud loses ground, and all those other sayings.

My point is this:  If you have a problem with a judgement, fine, but don't debase your argument by debasing the judge.  It hurts the game, it damages trust, and it takes out all the fun.   We're here to have fun, right?


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## Saepiroth (Jan 14, 2003)

Azure Trance said:
			
		

> *
> Why is her hair shaped into bunny ears? *



 your azumanga daioh deficiency disgusts and saddens me.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 14, 2003)

bhaal and Azure - what the hell are you guys going on about?

Maybe you missed it, but that discussion is almost a month old.

This week has to do with Victim being victimized, me coming to his defense, other people agreeing, clockwork agreeing he flubbed it, and us continuing, hopefully with a resolution about the Tree of Death mistake.

Does it make you guys feel better to keep using me as a scapegoat, and ignoring the recent events?
If so, why don't you go over to Nutkinland and start a flame thread on me over there, leaving this thread free of things which there is no resolvement for, so we can concentrate on trying to enjoy the game?


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## Azure Trance (Jan 14, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *bhaal and Azure - what the hell are you guys going on about?
> *




Obviously, it's a conspiracy against you. [pause] Have I posted anything after my initial query to which you responded? Why, yes, I did ...



> *Why is her hair shaped into bunny ears?*




To which the obvious anwer was, of course, my azumanga daioh deficiency.

-=-

But since you included me anyway in your broadswipes, it's not just recent, and it's not a dead old month discussion, it's how you've been acting the entire game since it started. It's not just Victim, to whom CWJ agreed to change the rules to appease group opinion, but how you nitpicked over *everything*. First it was the Kobolds, and then it was how you made a fuss over him knowing someone in the game personally, and ooonwards it went. CWJ nerfed my powers. When Piratecat intervened it stopped ... thank god.

Temporarily. The next problem was when the Gods interfered with the boons and you blamed CWJ of running the game for himself. And again when he took out the Kobolds and Golems since they had no effect in the game.



> *Originally posted by reapersaurus
> *throws up hands in exasperation*
> 
> Look, what does it matter if I'm not happy?
> ...





The above I think sums up a lot. You percieve CWJ as some overlord who can do what he wants (evil, thundering laugh) with impunity, and you haven't been happy with it at all as many of your posts indicate since you think that he's isolating you as his personal punching bag. As you felt below:



> I don't know... everything I sent to you, everything I had Jade do, you presented some reason why it didn't work, so....think about it from my side, for a second : why would I think anything else than you didn't want her out of the Cage?




But ... no one else seems to share that view, except in the case of the tree token, to which CWJ agreed there was a better way and changed his ruling.



> If so, why don't you go over to Nutkinland and start a flame thread on me over there, leaving this thread free of things which there is no resolvement for, so we can concentrate on trying to enjoy the game?




Exactly. It's a game. It has to be enjoyed, by the players, by CWJ, and by the people who are reading it (like me). As Bhaal stated in his conclusion:

*



			My point is this: If you have a problem with a judgement, fine, but don't debase your argument by debasing the judge. It hurts the game, it damages trust, and it takes out all the fun. We're here to have fun, right?
		
Click to expand...


*


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## reapersaurus (Jan 14, 2003)

you have the personal choice to bring up past actions, if you want, but I have purposely dropped past issues because people have stated they don't want to hear them on this thread.
And you ARE bringing up topics that are over a month old, and are played out: In my memory, I have only responded to other's words the past month. 
(I just checked : in over a month, I responded to Saepiroth agreeing that i didn't like the kobold disappearing, then replied to clockwork's posts directly. (I'm not responding to your comments about these REPLIES - email me if you wish)
Then I defended Victim's victimization, which helped the game, no?)

So why don't you email me if you would like to continue any personal discussion?
It shows VERY bad form on people's parts to call me on things, and then complain about me responding, then blaming me for bringing them up again.
"reapersaurus can't let things lie" "reapersaurus took my fun and went home with it" 

You're right, though, that you didn't reply twice about it (that was Bhall). I combined you 2 in 1 reply to make it more general - maybe I should have seperated your 2 outsider's comments, but forgive me if I lumped your 2 very similar comments together.

So let me address Anyone that wants to talk about early December's discussions: 
email me OFF the thread, and I'd be glad to discuss every word I posted.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 14, 2003)

to get this page back on track, I think that the issue on the table was the current ruling that the Tree of Death maneuver will be able to repeatedly do 20d6 damage, Reflex save for half as many times as Berk wants to.

since people don't like the way I word things, I'll just quote:







			
				Hammerhead said:
			
		

> *Martok just bought a couple 100gp trees and started dropping them, neither building his character around it nor severely limiting his options. The only real surprise in such a maneuver, since every week or so someone talks about dropping lead balls from flight to kill dragons or something equally stupid, is that clockwork joe allowed such a cheesy maneuver.
> 
> Even as a Reflex half effect, the trees allow brutal damage at very low cost. If I join the next game of death, I expect everyone will start dropping those things on all non-rogues. Maybe everyone should just seal themselves off with walls of force to prevent "Death from Above."*



would anyone like to put their 2 cents in about this issue, or what clockwork responded:







> As for the 10d6 damage being unfair, I don't see how it is. You could have pulled the same thing with a bag of boulders or even an extra large bag of holding and some anvils. Hell, someone could have bought 20 bags of holding and filled each bag with acid and then telekinesised it overy Maturak's head. Dropping very large things over someone's head isn't very hard to do in 3E D&D and it is very very damaging.



 I believe that's the CURRENT discussion - all of us being mutually concerned about the impact (pun intended) of rulings, and worrying that the TreeofDeath maneuver unbalances the game, and leads to uninteresting tactics.

clockwork, it's probably moot now though, right?
I don't think that Martok's move this Round can be changed, and as long as Berk doesn't use 100 gp ammunition again this Game, it's only an academic problem, right?
Single-use tricks can be fun and all, but used repeatedly...


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 14, 2003)

I am standing by my current ruling of the tree drop trick. Attacker must be at least 65 feet above the target (tree is 60 feet high) 20d6 damage, ranged touch attack with a -10 penalty to hit, DC 20 listen or spot check and DC 10 reflex save, 1 success = half damage, both succeed = no damage. IT IS NOT AUTOMATICALLY 10d6 DAMAGE. DO YOU UNDERSTAND THE WORDS THAT ARE COMING OUT OF MY MOUTH?

And again, as for the 100 GP magic item being too powerful, I point you to Piratecat's story hour as evidence that  the token is very powerful when used properly.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 14, 2003)

you're right - i forgot in my recap that it's not automatic - it just requires cross-class skills with a high DC.

No need to yell the funny Chris Tucker reference - tho, if you had a pic of that posted, it'd be funnier.  

I'm just trying to keep this thread on-topic, and applicable to the game as it is going on right now.
I am rather surprised you'd use one guy's Storyhour as justification for House Rules.
I won't state my opinion of the ruling, or point out the problems I see with it.

If noone else comments, than the TreeofDeath maneuver is apparently golden.

Yet more current events:
I'll save Number47 a post, and ask his typical question (which I share this time):
Why hasn't Rale Hawkeye's and Zalilad's actions been posted - it's over 24 hours, right?
It's kind of funny that the 2 guys that are Dominated and Held are taking the max time for their actions...


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## JDragon (Jan 14, 2003)

Just a few thoughts... in case anyone cares what the dwarf thinks  

I think, that the adjusted rules are for the tree O'Death are fine, also I think the Gawd's probably got a laugh outta the whole thing the first time thru.  (as I said on the site, OUCH) Also I can't see them letting this type of attack continue as it will spoil their fun.

JDragon

AKA - Harsel - who is glad hes just fighting some guy with a whip.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 14, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Why hasn't Rale Hawkeye's and Zalilad's actions been posted - it's over 24 hours, right?
> It's kind of funny that the 2 guys that are Dominated and Held are taking the max time for their actions... *



 actually, it's only been about 16 hours since the last move was posted. they still have eight hours to mail their move. i'm also still dominated, too, about as much as zalilad still is. both of us have the same amount of protection against the effects of our domination.

besides, CWJ isn't a slave to the goddamned game. be patient.


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## Number47 (Jan 14, 2003)

Yeah, I figured that he must have had a full day at work today. I expect we will get updates when he gets home from work. I assume he has a regular job, at least.


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## Victim (Jan 14, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Yeah, I figured that he must have had a full day at work today. I expect we will get updates when he gets home from work. I assume he has a regular job, at least. *




I'm disappointed.  I would have guessed that you'd have killed Zalilad by now.


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## Number47 (Jan 14, 2003)

Well, he is very tricky and has a boatload of hit points. Don't forget, max hit points. Without even trying, I could make a 15th level barbarian with a +5 con modifier that would give me 255 hit points without even raging. So, I'm with you that I'm disappointed in Zalilad being alive, but I'm not surprised by it. Looking on the other hand, the guy hasn't even attacked me yet and look at the state he's in. I think the wounding that he's had to counteract every round has slowed him down. We'll see what surprises he can pull out this time.


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## Hammerhead (Jan 14, 2003)

Seeing as how I read the GoD everyday, and am a neutral party, more or less (I root for Maturak and Dabbil), why don't we start placing bets on who will be the first to die (other than Ancryx, he's already dead). Hawkeye's held, and will be CDG'd in a short while, and Dabbil is administering the beating of his life to poor ol' Zaliad.


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## Azure Trance (Jan 14, 2003)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> *Seeing as how I read the GoD everyday, and am a neutral party, more or less (I root for Maturak and Dabbil), why don't we start placing bets on who will be the first to die (other than Ancryx, he's already dead). Hawkeye's held, and will be CDG'd in a short while, and Dabbil is administering the beating of his life to poor ol' Zaliad. *




What currency could we use though, as gambling ain't no fun 'less we have something to gain (or lose) ;D



> *I want 1 catrillion, billion, gazillion,
> papillion, tazillion, million, quintillion
> .. Yen *


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## Number47 (Jan 14, 2003)

This isn't a game where it is wise to make predictions. I'll let you know what my predictions are for next round after this round is over. After next round? I don't plan that far in the future. By the way, thanks for rooting for me.


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## Bhaal (Jan 14, 2003)

The ruling seems good to me, taking the following into consideration: *1)* you get two checks for that DC 20, increasing your odds by quite a bit; *2)* DC 20 isn't that bad at 15th level, there's plenty of room for some skill points in listen and spot--something an adventurer *would* have.  Neglecting to bring those skills up is like neglecting to make sure your saves are decent; *3)* If a character starts throwing trees all over the place, I'm sure the gods will find it boring and...persuade the character into believing it's not such a great idea.  They're sorta there as a metagame device to keep the fight interesting and not turn into a cheese fest.

Reaper:  It's not disagreeing with the DM's rulings, or even bringing up discussion on anything he does.  Heck, I agree his first ruling for the tree was bad.  It's accusing the DM of foul play, and making it a motif in your arguments, that gets me going.  It spoils the game more than any (reasonable) bad calls could ever hope to do; I "call you on it" because it *is* affecting the game negatively.  Anyway that's my only beef, state that a decision is bad and not that the DM is bad.  I'd much rather we both forget about the whole thing, agreed?

Fingolfin might score a kill this round, but it depends on a few things (aside from a little luck).  I can't say who it might be though, because that'd spoil all the fun


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## Saepiroth (Jan 15, 2003)

Bhaal said:
			
		

> *Fingolfin might score a kill this round, but it depends on a few things (aside from a little luck).  I can't say who it might be though, because that'd spoil all the fun  *




i have this strange itching sensation in the back of my skull... almost as if i were being watched...






























...through a sight...


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## Number47 (Jan 15, 2003)

I'll mention it here, too, in case you don't see the note on the site. May I please have my AoO against Zalilad?


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## reapersaurus (Jan 15, 2003)

I just wondered :
How does Delaying your action until after someone else's action work in this Game, since initiative doesn't change?


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## Saepiroth (Jan 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I'll mention it here, too, in case you don't see the note on the site. May I please have my AoO against Zalilad? *



 wait, do you have Hold The Line or a reach weapon? i thought it was _leaving_ a threatened area that imposed an attack of opportunity, not just entering one.


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## Number47 (Jan 15, 2003)

The easy answer to that is, Zalilad passed through _three_ threatened squares to attack me.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 15, 2003)

Zalilad stood up (no AoO) then did a partial charge.  Why would you get an AoO?


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## Number47 (Jan 15, 2003)

xxZxx
xxtxx
xxtxx
xxtxx
xxDxx

Diagram above shows Zalilad starting in a threatened square, then moving through _three_ threatened squares. Even if he hadn't attacked, I would've gotten an AoO from the movement alone. Unless he used an ability or feat to be immune from AoO, of course, but it should be mentioned.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *xxZxx
> xxtxx
> xxtxx
> xxtxx
> ...




I always thought you don't take AoO from charging.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *xxZxx
> xxtxx
> xxtxx
> xxtxx
> ...




you don't get AoOs with ranged weapons without some VEEEERY special class choices. what the hell ARE you? even Lashers only get to do AoOs at a 5' range.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 15, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *
> 
> you don't get AoOs with ranged weapons without some VEEEERY special class choices.
> 
> even Lashers only get to do AoOs at a 5' range. *




He has reach. But the SRD specifically says that you don't take AoO from partial charges, which Zalilad did.  I am honestly not an expert on AoO so if anyone can point me to a faq/errata/whatever saying that Dabbil would get the AoO, I will reroll it. I don't care either way, I just want to run it correctly.


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## Number47 (Jan 15, 2003)

I hate to give away things about my character, but I am _not_ using a ranged weapon. It is a melee weapon.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I hate to give away things about my character, but I am not using a ranged weapon. It is a melee weapon. *




!

ahh, reach, a TRUE love/hate relationship.

i can't wait to figure out what the heck it is. sounds a great deal better than my choice of Glaive.


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## JDragon (Jan 15, 2003)

I belive CWJ is correct so far on this one, without knowing abilities of the character in ?.

As far as I know, unless you have a feat or PrC ability that allows AoO against charging opponents your out of luck. 

The only two things that do this that i know of are Hold the line, and Large and In Charge.

JDragon - who spends to much time working on AoO's with his group.


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## Hammerhead (Jan 15, 2003)

He's using a spiked chain, I'd say. With some illusion cast upon it to misdirect you guys.


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## green slime (Jan 15, 2003)

I think it is a Huge Spiked Chain, he is Large after all...


----------



## Number47 (Jan 15, 2003)

PHB 127, chart 8-3. The heading for the attack of opportunity column is asterisked. The asterisked text reads: _Regardless of the action, if you move within or out of a threatened area, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself (not the moving) provokes an attack of opportunity._


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 15, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *PHB 127, chart 8-3. The heading for the attack of opportunity column is asterisked. The asterisked text reads: Regardless of the action, if you move within or out of a threatened area, you usually provoke an attack of opportunity. This column indicates whether the action itself (not the moving) provokes an attack of opportunity. *




good enough for me.


----------



## Victim (Jan 16, 2003)

But a Huge Spiked Chain would have 20' Reach, correct?


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 16, 2003)

since when is 8' tall a Large creature?  
If he's human, there's only one way i know of to be Large, and that's Righteous Might.

If he is large size, and is carrying a large shield, than I believe he'd get less than 2 AC from it, since it is not big enough to cover a Large frame the same as a Medium size.

As for the AoO, it is very clear that if Zalilad moved and attacked, while passing thru just one threatened square, than an AoO occurs.

HOW he has a 20' reach as a human, is unrevealed as yet.
(Enlarge DOES NOT change your size - that's an absolute).


----------



## Azure Trance (Jan 16, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *since when is 8' tall a Large creature?
> If he's human, there's only one way i know of to be Large, and that's Righteous Might.
> 
> If he is large size, and is carrying a large shield, than I believe he'd get less than 2 AC from it, since it is not big enough to cover a Large frame the same as a Medium size.
> ...




I was under the impression that 8 feet is a large creature ... though that may be a holdover from 2nd Ed days.


----------



## Victim (Jan 16, 2003)

He could just get a Large Shield built for his size.  Bigger versions cost more, but magic stuff automatically resizes.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 16, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *I just wondered :
> How does Delaying your action until after someone else's action work in this Game, since initiative doesn't change? *



what's the ruling on delaying your actions?


----------



## green slime (Jan 16, 2003)

> _Originally posted by reapersaurus _
> *...
> If he's human, ...
> *





Such a little word, such a huge impact on the reasoning. 



And *IF* he isn't a human...?


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 16, 2003)

well, since it doesn't list any illusory spell in the status page...

...would clockwork list effects from magic items on that page?
Is there a magic item that can cause illusions, or Alter looks?
edit: oh, it says on the page that Dabbil is human.
I was assuming that clockwork wouldn't be blocking or disguising that information he chose to put up.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 16, 2003)

clockworkjoe has clearly not been posting things on the status page that we have no way of knowing, for instance things that invisible people have done, the effects of Maturak's robot suit, etc.

Actually, taking a second look, I think that potions and stuff invisible people drink is kept secret, but spells cast we hear and they appear. This is my impression, but I'm not totally sure.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 16, 2003)

About the status page: Visible spells cast and common class powers (like barbarian rage for example) are listed because it's easier for me to keep track of it and I don't want handle 99999999 emails that basically consist of 'I have spellcraft at +20, what spell did he just cast on himself?'

However, powers and spells that aren't easily detectable such as what an invisible person is doing, or what an exotic magic item does (exotic is what I think exotic is and it consists of basically mostly stuff outside of the SRD) are not revealed nor are invis/hidden people's locations (obviously).

Hell, I wish I had thought of a better way to keep track of invisible players before the game started. I typically have to search through my old emails to find out where an invis player had moved to in earlier actions. 

I will also say that I have concealed or even lied about certain facts about various player characters. I did this when the character's basic concept revolved around this type of deception. For example, a character playing a doppelganger would show up as human in status page. 

As for delaying actions, I will not change init because I just want to keep the same order of players in the game. Otherwise it works the same. If you want to delay, you might want to specify when I should pause the game to get your action (i want to wait for bob's action etc.)


----------



## Number47 (Jan 16, 2003)

My suggestion for keeping track of invisible people is to have a copy of your maps kept on your hard drive with the invisible people showing, but not to upload it anywhere. On it you can have notes that make better visually, like everybody's reach, flying altitude, etc. You can also keep a "real" status list the same way.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 16, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I will also say that I have concealed or even lied about certain facts about various player characters. I did this when the character's basic concept revolved around this type of deception. For example, a character playing a doppelganger would show up as human in status page.
> 
> As for delaying actions, I will not change init because I just want to keep the same order of players in the game. Otherwise it works the same. If you want to delay, you might want to specify when I should pause the game to get your action (i want to wait for bob's action etc.) *



Well, we know that Dabbil woulsn't have lied, or been deceptive, since I think he posted that he's LG (a paladin).  <-- this is kind of a joke about the recent paladin behavior threads  

So to confirm:
if I delay, my action will happen after the event I"m delaying for, and then I'll have my normal action when my normal initiative comes up?


----------



## Number47 (Jan 16, 2003)

Clockworkjoe, I would argue against allowing somebody to delay, then snap back to their regular initiative. That would allow someone to get two turns in on someone who normally goes after them. Either don't allow delay actions, or change the initiative. I vote for the latter, so that we can still ready actions. Of course, if you choose to do it the way you said, us high-initiative guys win out. Yay us!


----------



## Number47 (Jan 16, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Well, we know that Dabbil woulsn't have lied, or been deceptive, since I think he posted that he's LG (a paladin).*




Not only have I said I am a Paladin, but I have acted like one, too. I never attacked Zalilad while he was basically helpless in the Minor Globe, and I never turned invisible (which I consider poor sportsmanship).

EDIT: please read my short stories and comment. Without hits and bumps, I am going to let the short story thread die.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 16, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Clockworkjoe, I would argue against allowing somebody to delay, then snap back to their regular initiative. That would allow someone to get two turns in on someone who normally goes after them. Either don't allow delay actions, or change the initiative. I vote for the latter, so that we can still ready actions. Of course, if you choose to do it the way you said, us high-initiative guys win out. Yay us! *




Good point. Ok, no initative shennangains because they make my head hurt.


----------



## JDragon (Jan 16, 2003)

Bummer, but understandable.  

At least we are all on the same foot.

JDragon


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 16, 2003)

I updated again showing that Fingolfin was hit by the prismatic spray. 

Still waiting for Vraketh's turn...


----------



## Victim (Jan 17, 2003)

Saepiroth, you fool!  Are you trying to help Ancryx?

Ancryx has either teleport or dimension door, so he can escape if he wants.  Most of his constructs are outside the force bubble, so they can continue to attack.  Ancryx is inside the bubble, making him difficult to attack.  And, if he's a Constructor (very likely, IMHO), then his constructs will last 1 minute per level instead of 1 round per level, so they'll outlast the bead.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 17, 2003)

meh, it's spell impervious; presumably that applies to Psionics, too. i just didn't feel like being set on fire or having another slew of constructions appear around me. and if he succeded at his roll, it would have flung him forwards; i intentionally threw it behind him. if he succeded and then "succeded" again without moving, he would've been thrown into the blades.

besides he can't blast me until he spends 5-11 PP and an action on a teleport type manifestation. anything that forces him to lose PP is A-OK in my book.


----------



## Terraism (Jan 17, 2003)

Victim, I really like the way you think... 

Oh, and Saephiroth - I'm more with Victim.  And don't worry about me losing PP - I don't think I could run out, even if I keep up at this rate, and we go for another six or seven rounds.


----------



## Victim (Jan 17, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *meh, it's spell impervious; presumably that applies to Psionics, too. i just didn't feel like being set on fire or having another slew of constructions appear around me. and if he succeded at his roll, it would have flung him forwards; i intentionally threw it behind him. if he succeded and then "succeded" again without moving, he would've been thrown into the blades.
> 
> besides he can't blast me until he spends 5-11 PP and an action on a teleport type manifestation. anything that forces him to lose PP is A-OK in my book. *




He can just create an even bigger army while inside the sphere.  His constructs that are outside the sphere right now will continue to attack.  By the time the force bubble dissipates, Ancrys will be at full HP because he has fast healing, and will have a bunch more contructs ready to roll - and since he doesn't need to worry about creating a whole bunch at once, he may be able to create them more efficiently (Twin power might still be more efficient, if that's what he's using).  Meanwhile, other characters will be expending much of their resources fighting each other.  More haste potions will have to be used, Dust of Disappearence will run out, etc.

The point is, he's not going to blast you.  Most of his constructs are still free to act, so his offense is largely intact.  In any case, I can't see blasting as a viable primary attack strategy.  Considering the large number of opponents and the presumeably good HP and saves of most characters, not to mention magical defenses, I think a blaster would run out of steam too quickly.

But heck, even if the bubble completely shuts down someone's offense for a couple minutes, that's a couple minutes to heal, finish buffing, etc.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 17, 2003)

ah, well. in all truth, it was an accident; me and Jinx sent our moves at the same time.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 18, 2003)

i guess 24 hours each turn is the way it'll be for the timebeing... 

please don't take this as capping on clockwork - but I sent Therron's actions about 3 this morning.
I just want others to know that (as far as I'm aware) we're not waiting for my action.
just want that clarified, and that I won't be able to check posts until tomorrow night.


----------



## Hammerhead (Jan 18, 2003)

I wonder how a psychic warrior would do in this game? If I was playing, I'd play one with a high strength, use Polymorph Self to turn into a Stone Giant, use a Spiked Chain (20 feet reach) and Standstill to stop melee characters. I would also use Power Stones and Use Psionic Device to manifest neat Psion powers as well. I could use Reach to make it 25' Reach, Animal Affinity to boost all my stats, a bunch of miscellaneous protection buffs, etc.

Or how about a cleric archer who uses an enlarged Anti-Life Shell to protect herself?


----------



## Number47 (Jan 18, 2003)

Connection down? Game night? Hot date? What could be so important to postpone the game of the century?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 18, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Connection down? Game night? Hot date? What could be so important to postpone the game of the century? *




i do have a social life, geez.


----------



## Victim (Jan 18, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> i do have a social life, geez. *




He's lying.  I sent my Ninja infiltrators to sneak into his house and copy the character sheets for all the other characters in the game and add some nifty items to my character.  Based on the fact that none of them have reported back, I assume he spent all night fighting them off and hiding the bodies.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 19, 2003)

getting weak...

need fix...


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *getting weak...
> 
> need fix... *



 SSSSSSSNNNNNNNNNNNOOOOOOOOORRRRT


ahhhh... just one _TURN_ man! jus' one! thass all i need to get thru the day... i'm not gonna _waste_ it, i just need a hit... gimme a hit man, gimme a hit...

jus' one hit man, thass all i need...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 19, 2003)

fun fact: People get points for killing constructs.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 19, 2003)

I wonder now if I should have killed the invisibility purge kobold. I probably could have downed him with one hit when he passed through my threatened area. I never mentioned it, though, because I had no reason to wish him harm. Oh well, I would rather be true to my character than amass points.

EDIT: Tobias must have gotten quite a few with that Prismatic Spray. Does sending it to another plane count as destroying?


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

'ey, Clockwork - how do the points work, anyway?  I mean, what if the "last man standing" doesn't have the most points?  Does someone else win regardles, or...?


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 19, 2003)

ah... where are points listed? or do you not have a place for that yet?


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *EDIT: Tobias must have gotten quite a few with that Prismatic Spray. Does sending it to another plane count as destroying? *




I should hope not - they're *Astral* Constructs, after all...


----------



## Number47 (Jan 19, 2003)

Makes me wonder, would a construct be affected by the positive/negative material planes?

EDIT: Time to leave for the first D&D game in about 2 months. See you a little bit later tonight!


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Makes me wonder, would a construct be affected by the positive/negative material planes?
> 
> EDIT: Time to leave for the first D&D game in about 2 months. See you a little bit later tonight! *




I'd say no.

And, Number47 - ENJOY yourself!  I've been there; here's to hoping it's a great game, to make up for lost play time!


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 19, 2003)

To save having to look up what the "favorable crowd reaction" was to Jade's performance, they should be Hostile now towards Martok:
They would take risks to hurt him. They would attack, interfere, _berate_, or flee.

Victim - the ninja thing was hilarious.


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *To save having to look up what the "favorable crowd reaction" was to Jade's performance, they should be Hostile now towards Martok:
> They would take risks to hurt him. They would attack, interfere, _berate_, or flee.*




Oh, Reaper, I'd meant to comment at the game, but why not here...?

Like that.  Liked that very very much.  If I wasn't a passionless lich with a heart of stone (literally,) I'd have applauded.  But I am.  So I didn't.  Or something like that.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 19, 2003)

hey, thanks!

that's quite nice of you.

Number47: 2 months is a long layoff between RL games?

My group averages probably 4-6 month layoff times between spurts of gaming. 
RL is a bitch when trying to game.
clockwork - could you put a monster in the Game that simulates the RL monster that stops us all from gaming as much as we'd like?

If you did, it would probably be the monster from the Epic Level Handbook that had 100 sets of arms (what was the name of that thing?)


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Number47: 2 months is a long layoff between RL games?
> 
> My group averages probably 4-6 month layoff times between spurts of gaming.
> RL is a bitch when trying to game.
> *




I'm with you, Reaper - I ran a game over Christmas break that was abysmal, but prior to that, August was the last game, and only a one-shot.  Before that... umm... February, I think, though we'd made plans to _try_ and play in the time gap.


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

Oh, for the record, I sent in my turn about an hour ago.  Just mentioning it because normally I do hold things up (sorry, folks!  My turn just always seems to come at an awkward time!) but this time I was all ready.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 19, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *Oh, for the record, I sent in my turn about an hour ago.  Just mentioning it because normally I do hold things up (sorry, folks!  My turn just always seems to come at an awkward time!) but this time I was all ready.   *




you're going to beat the living  out of me, aren't you?


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *you're going to beat the living  out of me, aren't you?  *




Oh, c'mon?  After what you did?  I'm eternally grateful for that protective shell.  

Not that lich's are really known for their gratitude, or anything...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 19, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh, c'mon?  After what you did?  I'm eternally grateful for that protective shell.
> 
> Not that lich's are really known for their gratitude, or anything... *




your sense of gratitude is in an urn somewhere in your closet, next to your conscience and your ability to make polite conversation.


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *your sense of gratitude is in an urn somewhere in your closet, next to your conscience and your ability to make polite conversation. *




Hey, hey!  I can make polite conversation!


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 19, 2003)

I will process top of round 6 tonight. Also, Ancryx, your smaller constructs were not able to reach tobias and attack since their fly speed is only 60 (double movement to move up and tobias is 40 feet up).


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 19, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *your sense of gratitude is in an urn somewhere in your closet, next to your conscience and your ability to make polite conversation. *



more with the lich jokes - ROFL.

You should do a comedy routine - It's All About the Phylactery, Baby.

Could the constructs have charged to reach Tobias?


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Could the constructs have charged to reach Tobias? *




I was just going to ask...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 19, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I was just going to ask... *




brain not working today


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *brain not working today *




Which means...?


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 19, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> brain not working today *




I wasn't even aware you could charge in flight, especially charging UP. I also thought fly speeds for stuff using the equivalent of the fly spell was set at 90/60 ft and could not be extended by charging...

Oh well, I'm dead next round. Maybe I can cause some grief before I go...


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *I wasn't even aware you could charge in flight, especially charging UP. I also thought fly speeds for stuff using the equivalent of the fly spell was set at 90/60 ft and could not be extended by charging...
> 
> Oh well, I'm dead next round. Maybe I can cause some grief before I go... *




Are you Tobias?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 19, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I wasn't even aware you could charge in flight, especially charging UP. I also thought fly speeds for stuff using the equivalent of the fly spell was set at 90/60 ft and could not be extended by charging...
> 
> Oh well, I'm dead next round. Maybe I can cause some grief before I go... *




show me in the books where it says that and I will readjust accordingly


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 19, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> show me in the books where it says that and I will readjust accordingly *




Well you guys are supposed to be the 3e experts. I'm at work now so I don't have anything on hand for the next, oh six or seven hours. 

But ascent speed via the fly spell is slower, and I guess you can charge, heh:



> The spell’s subject can fly with a speed of 90 feet (60 feet if the creature wears medium or heavy armor). The subject can fly up at half speed and descend at double speed. The flying subject’s maneuverability rating is good. Using the fly spell requires as much concentration as walking, so the subject can attack or cast spells normally. The subject of a fly spell can charge but not run, and it cannot carry aloft more weight than its maximum load (see page 142), plus any armor it wears.




Source: http://www.opengamingfoundation.org/srd/srdspellsf.html


----------



## Terraism (Jan 19, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *Well you guys are supposed to be the 3e experts. I'm at work now so I don't have anything on hand for the next, oh six or seven hours. *



*

I wouldn't say we're supposed to be anything; I know darn well that I'm fallible.  *


----------



## Timothy (Jan 19, 2003)

i hate being interupted.
On the bright side they didn`t attack me.
Jarrod


----------



## Twinswords (Jan 19, 2003)

Sorry that was my brothers account.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 20, 2003)

Twinswords said:
			
		

> *Sorry that was my brothers account. *



 that is one _immense_ signature.


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 20, 2003)

I'm curious who I should die to...the lich or the cleric? Neither really deserves to get the points. Hmmm...

Oh well, I'll post my character sheet when I die so you can all laugh at how unmunchkin and useless my character is compared to your lich and reaper's two shield using THING.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 20, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *I'm curious who I should die to...the lich or the cleric? Neither really deserves to get the points. Hmmm...
> 
> Oh well, I'll post my character sheet when I die so you can all laugh at how unmunchkin and useless my character is compared to your lich and reaper's two shield using THING. *




perhaps me, you, and icitrik should murder each other in a blaze of glory.

OH BETTER IDEA!

i suggest we all run over and let Zalilad murder us all. i think he deserves the points most of all, because he seems to actually be trying to roleplay a little bit.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 20, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *Oh well, I'll post my character sheet when I die so you can all laugh at how unmunchkin and useless my character is compared to your lich and reaper's two shield using THING. *



hey!
Therron hasn't exactly been smacking people around the last month and a half...  

At LEAST wait till he gets a _chance_ to paste somebody on his shield before declaring him a munchkin character. 

it should only be another month till i get a shot to...   :groan:


----------



## Terraism (Jan 20, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *I'm curious who I should die to...the lich or the cleric? Neither really deserves to get the points. Hmmm...
> 
> Oh well, I'll post my character sheet when I die so you can all laugh at how unmunchkin and useless my character is compared to your lich and reaper's two shield using THING. *




I have to ask - what's your problem with my character?


----------



## Hammerhead (Jan 20, 2003)

I hate to sound like a jerk, but why on earth should Zaliad get ANY points? I really haven't seen him roleplay or say anything worthwhile, in comparison to Therron, Dabbil, Jade, Norman, and Maturak, who actually DO roleplay their characters. Furthermore, Dabbil has inflicted more than 200 points of damage to Zaliad. Zaliad? Zero. I figured he would have charged Dabbil, using Rhino Hide Armor and Power Critical to paste Dabbil across the map. Instead, he's done nothing.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 20, 2003)

The first opportunity Zalilad had to charge me was this past round, but don't forget he dropped his scythe when he fell over.  He never picked it up.  I don't know what he hoped to accomplish by hitting me with the bag other than ticking me off because I really wanted that bag of holding.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 20, 2003)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> *why on earth should Zaliad get ANY points? *



 irony.


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Jan 20, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *hey!
> Therron hasn't exactly been smacking people around the last month and a half...
> 
> At LEAST wait till he gets a _chance_ to paste somebody on his shield before declaring him a munchkin character.
> ...




Ah, the joys of living through cohorts and companions, eh reaper? I feel your pain. And it's all your fault! Least you don't run the risk of being stabbed/fried/kerbludgeoned/groin-stomped/poked-with-stick.

#Always look on the briiight side of life. doo, doo-doo, doodoo-doodoo-doodoo.#
#Always look on the liiight side of life. doo, doo-doo, doodoo-doodoo-doodoo.#...


----------



## Number47 (Jan 20, 2003)

Sir Hawkeye said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Ah, the joys of living through cohorts and companions, eh reaper? I feely your pain. *




Hey! No getting feely with pain in here, buddy! Take it outside.


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Jan 20, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hey! No getting feely with pain in here, buddy! Take it outside. *




Gah! Editing powers... too slow... must... retreat. But know this, Number47, I shall have my revenge! MWU-HOO-HA-HA-HA-HA!


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 20, 2003)

Sir Hawkeye said:
			
		

> *Ah, the joys of living through cohorts and companions, eh reaper? I feel your pain. And it's all your fault! Least you don't run the risk of being stabbed/fried/kerbludgeoned/groin-stomped/poked-with-stick.*



It's the least I could do to spread around a little of the handcuffed/trapped vibe I've been privy to for over a month.

Too bad I couldn't have included Macallan in our little "party".
I SO wanted to Hold him while the kitty-cat and bear were playing with him.

While I don't have to worry about being stabbed, I only have to worry about Jade's soul being fried from her "protector", Martok 
Of course, she may have to worry about him using Telekenesis to throw 2000 darts thru the bars of the ForceCage...


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 20, 2003)

On the other hand, the cage protects you from the tree of death. 

Top of round 6 posted, and a storm is brewing.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 20, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *and a storm is brewing.  *



I don't believe this.

Wait till you guys see what happens after Maturak moves.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 20, 2003)

Clockworkjoe, it would be helpful if, at the top of the round, you reminded us of what effects we have that are going to end just before our initiative. I was just looking and realizing that everyone who used a potion or scroll of haste in the first round loses it this round, including me. Is something like that doable?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 20, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *Clockworkjoe, it would be helpful if, at the top of the round, you reminded us of what effects we have that are going to end just before our initiative. I was just looking and realizing that everyone who used a potion or scroll of haste in the first round loses it this round, including me. Is something like that doable? *




Good idea.


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 20, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I have to ask - what's your problem with my character? *




Didn't your character basically get the Lich template for free?

Also, realise that I had maybe one or two splatbooks when I created my character. I didn't have stuff like Magic of Faerun, Masters of the Wild, the Psionics Handbooks, etc to get the cool stuff from.


----------



## Terraism (Jan 20, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *Didn't your character basically get the Lich template for free?
> 
> Also, realise that I had maybe one or two splatbooks when I created my character. I didn't have stuff like Magic of Faerun, Masters of the Wild, the Psionics Handbooks, etc to get the cool stuff from. *




Ok - I can see your point, in part, but considering Clockwork did make it obvious that those were an option from the start, I'm not sure why you're annoyed that I used them...?


----------



## Victim (Jan 20, 2003)

Well, in my opinion, getting the psi-lich for free and getting the normal lich template for free are 2 different things.  The psi-lich is much more "adventure worthy," while the regular lich has more abilities that make him the Big Bad Evil Guy, but aren't as useful otherwise.  Still, it's not that big of a deal.

Now we have wet ice instead of just ice.  I'd imagine that it's now much harder to move across.

My move is now in.


----------



## JDragon (Jan 20, 2003)

I also just sent in my move for round 6.

JDragon

AKA Harsel the rain loving dwarf


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 20, 2003)

Ok i removed haste from the players who used a potion on round 1:

dabbil
sepiroth
tobias
vraketh

and also as i was looking through the files stored on slangdesign, I found some old projects of mine you might find amusing. 

the advice o matic, a humorous advice site.
http://www.slangdesign.com/advice

the toy reenactor troupe
http://www.slangdesign.com/troupe

godfather part 1
http://www.slangdesign.com/troupe/godfather

starship troopers
http://www.slangdesign.com/troupe/starship

pulp fiction
http://www.slangdesign.com/troupe/pulp


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 20, 2003)

clockwork - shouldn't there be a cloud around the Forcecage now?
a rapidly-dissipating cloud, but a cloud nonetheless...

edit: cloud, not could...


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 20, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *pulp fiction
> http://www.slangdesign.com/troupe/pulp *




holy. .

post this on SA. now goddamnit! now!


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 21, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Ok - I can see your point, in part, but considering Clockwork did make it obvious that those were an option from the start, I'm not sure why you're annoyed that I used them...? *




Not really annoyed as such, just pointing out the obvious. I recall someone not being impressed with my character so far, and I'm justifying why. I hadn't really played a complete session of 3e when I made him, so I didn't know the rules as well as most here.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 21, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *
> 
> holy. .
> 
> post this on SA. now goddamnit! now! *




I did. The thread is now in the comedy goldmine  

Also, I will add the cloud next time I update that map. I am aware of its effects (concealment for you obviously etc).


----------



## JDragon (Jan 21, 2003)

SA-Jinx

If it makes you feel any better I have a couple feats from 1 splatt-book and two minor/medium items from FR, other wise all Core Rule Books.  But I also suspect I may not last very long.

JDragon


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## JDragon (Jan 21, 2003)

SA-Jinx

If it makes you feel any better I have a couple feats from 1 splatt-book and two minor/medium items from FR, other wise all Core Rule Books.  But I also suspect I may not last very long.

JDragon


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 21, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I did. The thread is now in the comedy goldmine  *




sadly, goldmined threads becomes inaccessable to browse after a certain period of time. if you want to look at them, you have to have a plat and know what to search for to see anything.

in other words; post it again! or let me turn it into a .gif and post it myself!


----------



## Victim (Jan 21, 2003)

Don't feel bad.  Poor Dabbil is a core rules only character.  I almost didn't use MaoF, but decided to add gear from it at last minute.  I looted 2 feats and one PrC from the splat books, aside from my MaoF items - which are mostly my Gnome gadgets.

BTW, I had to use my advantage to get those things, in addition to the cost per item.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 21, 2003)

The goldmined thread is http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320736

I'm going to do another set of reenactments sometime soon. 

and I found goldmined threads dating back to august.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 21, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *The goldmined thread is http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=320736
> 
> I'm going to do another set of reenactments sometime soon.
> 
> and I found goldmined threads dating back to august. *



 ohh, i didn't realize you had done it so recently. sorry.


----------



## Victim (Jan 22, 2003)

Berk, where are you?  I need to know what else is falling on me.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 22, 2003)

Clockwork - 
a few questions/issues with Martok's last action:

1) as a point of order, Ray of Enfeeblement is a Close range spell - so he'd be within 60 ft or so.
2) The cloud you said you'd add to the map still isn't there. This would have provided Jade with total concealment.
3) I'll mention #3 after you let me know about #2.


----------



## Victim (Jan 22, 2003)

It could be enlarged or something.  

However, since Martok only cast one spell, he had to be doing something else.  Maybe he moved in, fired the ray, then flew out.  While you'd get some info, it's not like you have a ready action.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 22, 2003)

OK, I'll try to be clear and concise:

#2) A cover of Fog should have billowed out from the corner of the Forcecage as soon as Maturak moved away.
At the time that Martok used the Ray at close range, Jade would have been fully concealed.


----------



## Single Malt (Jan 22, 2003)

On the status page Martok is listed with Blindsight. I think someone mentioned this spell earlier though I can't remember the specifics. I guess that would enable him to disregard the (missing) fog.


----------



## Victim (Jan 22, 2003)

The only grants Blindsight with a 30 ft range.  Since the spell is touch range and has no listed area of effect, it would be impossible to boost the range of the blindsight with Enlarge or Widen metamagics.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 23, 2003)

First blood! Yeargh!


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 23, 2003)

I did take obscuring mist into account for the ray taking affect. 

And congrats to Dabbil for the first PC kill of the game! 

I don't think Zalilad's going to be the only one to fall this round either...

edit to say: you can spend a full action to loot 1d4 magic items you recognize. The higher your spellcraft or knowledge aracana/religion/psionics/nature the better off you are to quickly ID magic items.


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 23, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I did take obscuring mist into account for the ray taking affect.
> 
> And congrats to Dabbil for the first PC kill of the game!
> 
> ...




Neither do I  

Don't suppose it would make sense to post Zalidad's character sheet since Dabbil could still loot his stuff...

Edit: I'll email my move in when I get home in an hour or so. Blaze of glory here I come...


----------



## Victim (Jan 23, 2003)

Just post it without item properties.  For my character, instead of saying +5 Speed Holy Huge Spiked Chain, +3 Screaming, Flaming, Shocking, Corrosive large Great Sword, Amulet of Invincibility, etc, I'd just write Huge Spiked Chain, Greatsword, and Amulet.

Good job Number47.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 23, 2003)

Personal - Name : Zalilad (the Mad)
Stat Score Adjustment 
Strength 20 +5 
Dexterity 18 +4 
Constitution 22 +6 
Intelligence 12 +1 
Wisdom 10 +0 
Charisma 14 +2 
 Characteristics 
Race : Human Size : Medium 
Gender : Male Age : 35 
Height : 6' 0" Weight : 250 lbs 
Hair : Brown Skin : Tanned 
Eyes : Blue Handedness : Right 
Alignment : Chaotic Good 



Level
Class Barbarian    Total Levels  
Level  15        15 
Experience  106000 Next Level  0 Exp Penalty     


Defense
Type  Total  Base  Item  Spells  Ability  Size  Armor Check 
Armor Class  19 10 5    4  0  -1 
Reflex  +14  +5        +4       
Fortitude  +18  +9        +6     Spell Fail 
Willpower  +10  +5        +0     20% 
Damage Resistance  2/- Spell Resistance 0    

Feats
Armor Proficiency (Light), Armor Proficiency (Medium), Dodge, Improved Critical (Scythe), Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes, Martial Weapon Proficiency, Mobility, Shield Proficiency, Simple Weapon Proficiency, Spring Attack, Weapon Focus (Scythe) 

Special Abilities
Greater rage, Rage 4/day, Uncanny Dodge (+1 against traps), Uncanny Dodge (Dex bonus to AC), Uncanny Dodge (can't be flanked), Uncanny Dodge (+2 against traps)  

Skills
Name Total Rank Ability Misc Name Total Rank Ability Misc 
Bluff 11 9.0  CHA/2   Jump 32 18.0  STR/14   
Diplomacy 15 9.0  CHA/6   Sense Motive 9 9.0  WIS/0   
Intimidate 22 18.0  CHA/4   Speak Language(Dwarven, Elven, Gnoll, Gnome, Goblin, Halfling, Orc, Sylvan, Giant) 



Biography
Note  Advantage: my god likes me. God: Zeus.  
Description Zalilad is a tall tanned man with blue eyes and brown hair. His hair is wild and bushy; he wears worn out equipment and is covered in dirt and use an old scythe as walking stick. People see him talk to himself/sky from time to time. Noone knows where he is from or where he is going, but they do know not to mess with him or they risk their life in doing so. Zalilad spend most of his time wondering around the village looking for information on "Agrendaand," or scaring little child at the playing field.  
Bio Zalilad was a happy little boy who lives with his parents in a small village until he turned 15. Agrendaand, an ancient lich that lives near the village, decided that he was bored and waged war against the near by nations. Zalilad’s village was the first to fell victim of Agrendaand’s boredom. After his village was destroyed, Zalilad joined a mercenary group of near by kingdom to fight against Agrendaand’s invasion. The war continued for 10 years without much progress until Agrendaand diverted his attention elsewhere and disappeared with a trace. The undead invasion without lich's backing was stopped eventually. For the next five years Zalilad adventured with his mercenary group gaining much fame and fortune until the day Zalilad heard rumors of Agrendaand’s where about. Going against his friends’ wishes and support, Zalilad sets out to avenge his family by himself. Several months after Zalilad started his personal quests, Zalilad stands in front of Agrendaand in the lich’s lair. The battle lasted 3 days and Zalilad was able to land a final blow when Agrendaand exhausted all his resources. The victory cost Zalilad dearly; before Agrendaand died, the ancient lich focused all his energy to perform a final attack targeted towards Zalilad’s mind. The attack did not have an immediate affect and Zalilad was able to enjoy his success briefly. However Zalilad was losing his mind slowly, and one day he just snapped and decided it’s time to go on a quest to avenge his family. Zalilad equipped himself and wondered the land in search of Agrendaand.


----------



## Victim (Jan 23, 2003)

Looks like paladin boy killed another good character.  You know, good on good killings can't be healthy from an alignment pov.  

How many good characters are there anyway?  I understand if people are worried about smiting or something, but I'm more than a bit curious.  Mechanically, neutral would be the best alignment, but I wonder what people picked.  I might be getting one of those sinking feelings.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 23, 2003)

He may have been good, but he was chaotic. That's as bad as evil in my book. I hold the same regard for chaotic good as I do for lawful evil, none.


----------



## Hammerhead (Jan 23, 2003)

Besides, what choice does Dabbil have when some psycho goes charging towards him? Not defend himself? Anyway, if you lose your paladinhood for following the rules of the game, then that sucks. For all we know, death isn't permanent and the gods True Res their champions.


----------



## Sir Hawkeye (Jan 23, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *He may have been good, but he was chaotic. That's as bad as evil in my book. I hold the same regard for chaotic good as I do for lawful evil, none. *




If I weren't paralyzed, crippled, surrounded by enemies, and seconds form death, I'd have to go after you for that.

Up Chaotic Good! 
Vive la revoluccione!


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 24, 2003)

A note about Martok's action: Holy star, which is currently acting like a spell turning spell, does not affect ranged touch spells 

http://enworld.cyberstreet.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=38091


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 24, 2003)

Name: Mystery Contestant #7 aka Tobias Sextus
Race: Half-Elf
Alignment: Neutral
Gender: Male

Fighter 6 / Sorcerer 9


Appearance: <insert spooky, cliched sorcerer mysterious guy description here>

Special Ability: Bonus Wealth (+50000gp)

Racial Abilities: Immunity to sleep spells
                  +2 to saves vs enchantment spells or effects
                  Low-light vision
                  +1 bonus to Listen, Search and Spot checks.
                  Elven Blood
                  Languages: Common and Elven.
                  Favoured Class: Any

Ability Scores:
         Strength         14+2   (+2/+3)
         Dexterity        14     (+2)
         Constitution     14     (+2)
         Intelligence     13     (+1)
         Wisdom           12     (+1)
         Charisma         18     (+4)

Hit Points: 116

Base Saves:
   Fort: +8 (+13)
   Ref:  +7 (+12)
   Wil:  +8 (+13)

Defence: AC: 19

Skills:
     Knowledge - Arcana      5(4)
     Perform                10(6)
     Concentration          14(8)  
     Spellcraft             13(12)
     Spot                    2(0)
     Swim                    7(3)
     Listen                  2(0)
     Search                  2(0)
     Intimidate              7(3)
     Bluff                   6(2)




Feats:
   Lightning Reflexes
   Weapon Focus (Longsword)
   Blind Fighting
   Improved Initative
   Power Attack
   Expertise
   Weapon Specialisation (Longsword)
   Spell Focus(Invocation)
   Improved Critical(Longsword)
   Arcane Defence(Invocation)


Spells:
     Cast per Day: 
        Level 0 - 6
        Level 1 - 6 +1
        Level 2 - 6 +1
        Level 3 - 6 +1
        Level 4 - 4 +1

     Known Spells: (8/5/4/3/2)
        Level 0:
            Resistance
            Light
            Disrupt Undead
            Detect Magic
            Identify
            Read Magic
            Mage Hand
            Prestidigitation
            Arcane Mark
        Level 1:
            True Strike
            Ray of Enfeeblement
            Protection from Law
            Magic Missile
            False Life
        Level 2:
            Mirror Image
            Melf's Acid Arrow
            Web
            Resist Elements
        Level 3:
            Dispel Magic
            Lightning Bolt
            Slow
        Level 4:
            Ice Storm
            Fire Shield (Chill Shield)



STEP BY STEP BREAKDOWNS:

1 - Fighter(1)
   Base Attack: +1
   Base Saves: +2 fort/+2 ref/+0 wil
   Base Feat: Lightning Reflexes
   Fighter Feat: Weapon Focus (Longsword)
   Skills: (12 points)
      Perform             2   (4 pts)
      Spellcraft          2   (4 pts)
      Swim                2   (2 pts)
      Intimidate          1   (2 pts)

2 - Fighter(2)
   Base Attack: +2
   Base Saves: +3 fort/+2 ref/+0 wil
   Fighter Feat: Blind Fighting
   Skills: (3 points)
      Perform             2.5 (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          2.5 (1 pts)
      Intimidate          1.5 (1 pts)

3 - Fighter(3)
   Base Attack: +3
   Base Saves: +3 fort/+3 ref/+1 wil
   Base Feat: Improved Initative
   Skills: (3 points)
      Perform             3   (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          3   (1 pts)
      Intimidate          3   (1 pts)

4 - Fighter(4)
   Base Attack: +4
   Base Saves: +4 fort/+3 ref/+1 wil
   Fighter Feat: Power Attack
   Ability Increase: Intelligence
   Skills: (12 points)
      Perform             3.5 (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          3.5 (1 pts)
      Bluff               0.5 (1 pts)

5 - Fighter(5)
   Base Attack: +5
   Base Saves: +4 fort/+3 ref/+1 wil
   Skills: (3 points)
      Bluff               2   (3 pts)

6 - Fighter(6)
   Base Attack: +6/+1
   Base Saves: +5 fort/+4 ref/+2 wil
   Base Feat: Expertise
   Fighter Feat: Weapon Specialisation (Longsword)
   Skills: (3 points)
     Perform              4 (1 pts)
     Spellcraft           4 (1 pts)
     Swim                 3 (1 pts)

7 - Sorcerer(1)
   Base Attack: +6/+1
   Base Saves: +5 fort/+4 ref/+4 wil
   Skills: (3 points)
      Concentration       3   (3 pts)

8 - Sorcerer(2)
   Base Attack: +7/+2
   Base Saves: +5 fort/+4 ref/+5 wil
   Ability Increase: Charisma
   Skills: (3 points)
      Concentration       5   (2 pts)
      Spellcraft          5   (2 pts)

9 - Sorcerer(3)
   Base Attack: +7/+2
   Base Saves: +6 fort/+5 ref/+5 wil
   Base Feat: Spell Focus(Invocation)
   Skills: (3 points)
      Concentration       3   (3 pts)

10 - Sorcerer(4)
   Base Attack: +8/+3
   Base Saves: +6 fort/+5 ref/+6 wil
   Skills: (3 points)
      Concentration       6   (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          6   (1 pts)
      Knowledge(Arcana)   1   (1 pts)

11 - Sorcerer(5)
   Base Attack: +8/+3
   Base Saves: +6 fort/+6 ref/+7 wil
   Skills: (3 points)
      Concentration       7   (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          7   (1 pts)
      Knowledge(Arcana)   2   (1 pts)

12 - Sorcerer(6)
   Base Attack: +9/+4
   Base Saves: +7 fort/+6 ref/+7 wil
   Base Feat: Improved Critical(Longsword)
   Ability Increase: Charisma
   Skills: (3 points)
      Concentration       8   (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          8   (1 pts)
      Knowledge(Arcana)   3   (1 pts)

13 - Sorcerer(7)
   Base Attack: +9/+4
   Base Saves: +7 fort/+6 ref/+7 wil
   Skills: (3 points)
      Perform             4.5 (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          9   (1 pts)
      Knowledge(Arcana)   4   (1 pts)

14 - Sorcerer(8)
   Base Attack: +10/+5
   Base Saves: +7 fort/+6 ref/+8 wil
   Skills: (3 points)
      Perform             5   (1 pts)
      Spellcraft          11  (2 pts)

15 - Sorcerer(9)
   Base Attack: +10/+5
   Base Saves: +8 fort/+7 ref/+8 wil
   Base Feat: Arcane Defence(Invocation)
   Skills: (3 points)
      Perform             6   (2 pts)
      Spellcraft          12  (1 pts)


----------



## Victim (Jan 24, 2003)

Smooth move.



> Jarrod: -0 HP
> Human, full plate, large steel shield, morning star. Endure Elements, Bull's Strength, Endurance, Eagle's Splendor, Divine Favor, Shield of Faith, Owl's Wisdom, Invisible, Haste, Shield, Spell Resistance, Spell Immunity, Barkskin, *Spell Turning*, Death Ward Fly 40 feet up




I hope one of your companions is going to use a nifty spell on Jarrod after you used up some of his turning levels.

EDIT:

Oh yeah, how will Tobias's death change scoring?  If I get reduced points because he killed himself . . .


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 24, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Smooth move.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I was disappointed because I had a really useful ioun stone, however it seems you need to CAST spells from ioun stones. I thought they simply required activation. BAH. Should have taken a few sanctuary spells as well.

And uh, what does my dying have to do with you getting points?


----------



## Taren Seeker (Jan 24, 2003)

I can't see any real difference between casting and activation in this case...


----------



## Victim (Jan 24, 2003)

Characters without teams get a multiplier to their scores based on the size of the biggest team.  Instead of getting NX points for a kill (20 if you defeat a PC), characters without teams get .75 x [# of characters in the biggest team] x N.


----------



## JDragon (Jan 24, 2003)

*Killing yourself?*

Why?

JDragon


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 24, 2003)

*Re: Killing yourself?*



			
				JDragon said:
			
		

> *Why?
> 
> JDragon *




i wonder that myself... but without any significant magical support left to our group, i might just take the same course. it's inevitable, now.


----------



## JDragon (Jan 24, 2003)

*"it's inevitable, now"*

I know I may not have a very good chance of making it out of this thing live against some of the things I've seen so far, but theirs no way I'm just going to give up and die.  I'm taking anyone I can with me. 

JDragon


----------



## Victim (Jan 24, 2003)

Besides, even powerful characters can get worn.  Spells per day get used up, short duration buffs run out, damage is taken so either HP is reduced or more resources are expended for cures, etc.  While raw power is important, abilities or tactics that produce favorable attrition results can tip the scales.

It's not as if most characters in the game have dedicated magic user support besides their own spells and ioun stones.

EDIT:

Because I can! and because some people might find it amusing, I'm going to post my guessed as to the abilities of the deceased characters.

Because Tobias cast spells, had elven blodd, used a longsword and wore no armor, I thought he was something like a Wizard 13 Fighter 1, Bladesinger 1.  He'd have the bladesinger INT bonus to AC since he used a longsword, and as a wizard, he'd want a high INT anyway.  By opening with low end evocations, he could probe opponents for resistances, saves and such, deal some damage, and possibly present misinformation about his high end spells; all while commiting a minimal amount of resources.  Also, his HP and saves would be boosted.  He'd still have 7th level spells as well.


----------



## SA-Jinx (Jan 24, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> Because Tobias cast spells, had elven blodd, used a longsword and wore no armor, I thought he was something like a Wizard 13 Fighter 1, Bladesinger 1.  He'd have the bladesinger INT bonus to AC since he used a longsword, and as a wizard, he'd want a high INT anyway.  By opening with low end evocations, he could probe opponents for resistances, saves and such, deal some damage, and possibly present misinformation about his high end spells; all while commiting a minimal amount of resources.  Also, his HP and saves would be boosted.  He'd still have 7th level spells as well. [/B]




Thats what I SHOULD have done, and I know better know...hindsight and all that.

There was NO way I was going to survive till the end of the round with Jarrod and the constructs after me. I might of been able to web them and then follow up but without haste I couldn't move far enough. I also did not have enough HP (I had about 10 left) to survive further AoO's when moving. Better to go with a band than a whimper I guess, plus someone else doesn't get the points for killing me, as unsportsmanlike as that sounds - heh.

Call Lightning has a ten minute casting time which I thought I could circumvent by putting it in an ioun stone - no such luck however...

Edit: I had true seeing but it was still a pain in the ass to keep up with invisible people. This game while fun, suffer(s/ed) from a number of unfair features.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 24, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *This game while fun, suffer(s/ed) from a number of unfair features. *



 biggest problem; we can't keep up with you crazy ENworld junkies min/max powers and obscure knowledge of the system.  


regardless, i wish you had decided to make that "BANG" you went out on a Dispel Magic. i can't do sh*t for damage without my primary weapon. oh well, at least i can still run like a bitch!


----------



## Victim (Jan 25, 2003)

In 2e, the trick with call lightning would have worked.  Items like rings of spell storing had fixed casting times.

In this huge arena, the 120 ft range of True Seeing is nothing.  You can see a distance of 24 squares away on a map that's 120 x 100.  Also, there's no (apparent) z cap, so a spellcaster could launch spells from 1000 ft into the air.

Plus, I think it's really hard to make an effective split level fighter wizard guy.  Besides taking a level or two of the opposite class, I think the best way to use the class combo is to focus on good buffing spells for a very self contained character.

I think I've made a pretty decent fighter mage using the Spellsword class.  The character is level 15, and 35 point buy, so he matches up well - in theory - against GoD characters.

Sir Tiberius human male
Pal 1, Fighter 2, Sorcerer 4, Spellsword 8.  IIRC, all the stat boosts when to strength.

STR 18 (22)
DEX 13
CON 15
INT 12
WIS 8
CHA 16 (18)

Spd: 20 (40)
Ini: +1

Att: +11/+6/+1 (brilliant energy bastard sword +20/+15/+10 - with tatoos up +23/+18/+13) (bow +16/+11/+6)

Dmg: 1d10+8 17-20/*2 bastard sword, 1d8+5 +1d6 fire bow
HP: 116
AC: 27 (+1 dex +9 armor +5 shield +2 deflection)
F +12 (+22)
R +3 (+16)
W +10 (+17)

Power Attack, Exotic Weapon, Focus, Imp Crit: Bastard Sword, cleave, lightning reflexes, Leadership, Extra spell (3), Dragon's Toughness

Knowledge Arcana 6 +7
                  Religion 4 +5
Concentration 11 +13
Spot 16 +15
Listen 16 +15
Diplomacy 4 +8
Spellcraft 3 +4
Craft: Caligraphy 4 +5
Ride 4 
Handle Animal 4

Arcane Failure 5%

Spellsword Cache
Channel Spell II
Divine Grace
Detect Evil
Immune to Disease

Caster level 8 - as sorcerer

Spells:  0: Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, ?
1: True Strike, Flamebolt (from R&R, similar to MM or lesser orb of fire), Shield, Expeditious Retreat, Jump
2: Craft magic Tatoo (FRCS), Cat's Grace, Assassin's Senses (R&R, increases threat range and multiplier by 1 for a short while)
3: Haste, Fly, Displacement
4: Flameshield

Cloak of Resistance +4
Mithral Full Plate +1 of Moderate Fort 
Mithral Lg. Shield +3
Amulet of Spendor +2 CHA
Adamantine (+2) +1 Brilliant Energy bastard sword
Scabbard of Keen Edges
Boots of Striding and Springing
+1 Surestriking dagger
ring of sustenance
ring of protection +2
goggles of darkvision and see invis
Belt of Giant Strength +4
+1 flaming mighty (+4) composite long bow
40 masterwork arrows
10 +2 arrows
25 +1 arrows
Some potions

His cohort was a cleric.    

I was actually considering using a very similar character, with some tweaks made to optimize for a one shot deathmatch.  Some cheap tricks like Dust of Disappearence, etc, some Dispel protection, a bunch of useful scrolls, some skill points in Tumble along with items to boost tumble and concentration.  While not exactly a melee killing machine, I think he's pretty strong all around.

I course, I judged Zalilad to be a potential killing machine - perhaps a fighter/weapon master with Ki crit for a 16-20 threat range with a scythe, along with goodies like Rhino hide, so I could be very wrong about the spellsword's effectiveness.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 25, 2003)

i'd just like you all to know that i am not holding up the game. i sent my move in early friday afternoon.

i think i designed myself too much to be a good campaign fighter... not enough focus on the once-off, and too general purpose.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 26, 2003)

I will determine how deeply Jade's lowered strength affects her sometime tomorrow.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 26, 2003)

SRD references for Strength of 1:


> A character can generally push or drag along the ground up to five times the maximum load.
> 
> Light          Medium         Heavy
> Strength       Load           Load           Load
> ...



 It looks like the range for Heavy Load (7-10) is for armors: 7 if in Heavy armor, 8 if Medium armor, 9 if Light armor, 10 if no armor.

Jade is wearing a Chain shirt, 25 pounds.
She has 16 lbs of equipment.
41 pounds carried, max is 9 * 5 = 45 lbs

She would only run at 3 times normal, not at 4, and would look to have slower movement (20 ft if 30 ft normally), max DEX bonus of +1, and -6 armor check penalty. 

My questions:
Does Heal fix temporary ability damage from the Ray?
Does Jade still have the wine to drink from?


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## Victim (Jan 26, 2003)

I thought that ray of enfeeblement wasn't ability damage, but an enhancement penalty.  That's why it can't take a character below 1 STR.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 26, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> Does Jade still have the wine to drink from? *



 if you didn't explicitly drop it, or do something that required two hands to do, then you still have it.

hawkeye; did you ever explicitly drop it? you might still have the teeniest inkling of a chance...


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## Victim (Jan 26, 2003)

> *Much as the situation calls for a good, stiff drink, now is not a good time for it." Hawkeye calmly sets down his ale and retrieves his weapon. He then whistles to his eagle and makes a gesture which, impressively, conveys all the concept of "go pick up that kobold and take him where he wants to go" in one motion.The bird takes off and heads northwest. Hawkeye promptly disappears. "Oh, and Macallan, you should know that the dire bear is a fantastic swimmer. Bruiser, you know what to do." The bear snarls and dives in after the fleeing gnome, reaching out with a massive paw. (Natural attack roll 9 result hit damage 15 grapple check bear 14 Macallan 18 result grappled) Not to be left out, Jack the Tiger follows suit (natural attack roll 1 result miss).*





Looks like he set it down.  Hmm, then I can use it.  Thanks.  

Besides, a _held_ character might have a tough time drinking wine.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 26, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *I thought that ray of enfeeblement wasn't ability damage, but an enhancement penalty.  That's why it can't take a character below 1 STR. *



you're probably right on that - I couldn't remember exactly what kind of penalty the Ray was.
(enhancement penalty? that's kind of strange...  where else is that used?)


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## Sir Hawkeye (Jan 27, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * if you didn't explicitly drop it, or do something that required two hands to do, then you still have it.
> 
> hawkeye; did you ever explicitly drop it? you might still have the teeniest inkling of a chance... *




Yep, it's on the ground, as Victim said.

Hey, I've still got a chance. Get ready for crazy-hobo-longshot ploy #2: _Paralysis Need Not Interfere With Mobility._


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## Victim (Jan 27, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *you're probably right on that - I couldn't remember exactly what kind of penalty the Ray was.
> (enhancement penalty? that's kind of strange...  where else is that used?) *




It's used with Bestow Curse.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 27, 2003)

Sir Hawkeye said:
			
		

> *Hey, I've still got a chance. Get ready for crazy-hobo-longshot ploy #2: Paralysis Need Not Interfere With Mobility. *



Maybe you can convince clockwork that your blister-causing mental cussing somehow boils the wine in the goblet to steam, then a pocket explodes and launches the fluid into your mouth.

Ranged touch spell, -10 to the roll.

(sorry, it might seem critical, but damn, i think it's just too funny and absurd not to post)    <-- big wink, with tongue-in-cheek


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## Saepiroth (Jan 27, 2003)

Sir Hawkeye said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Yep, it's on the ground, as Victim said.
> 
> Hey, I've still got a chance. Get ready for crazy-hobo-longshot ploy #2: Paralysis Need Not Interfere With Mobility. *



 actually, i want to see you win just because you've been abused so much. of course, i held the same sentiment towards zalilad...


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## Victim (Jan 27, 2003)

I imagine that I would be taking much more abuse, except that I've designed Maturak to avoid most forms of attack.

With greater knowledge of the boons, I think that My Gawd Likes Me rocks.  Since diety level magic breachs Antimagic Fields, you could have an AMF with all kinds of buffs from your patron diety.  With that advantage, one could run around protected by the AMF while Hasted.  That would be so much better than crappy gnome gadgets.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 27, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * actually, i want to see you win just because you've been abused so much.  *


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## Saepiroth (Jan 27, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> *



 you have a cohort that's been getting the  beaten out of it, yes, but your main character will probably be completely protected from all damage for about three or four more rounds. being able to jump into the melee while still completely fresh and as a mostly unknown quality is a very big advantage.


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## Victim (Jan 27, 2003)

Since Therron is the latest incarnation of the Shield-charger, I wouldn't exactly call him an unknown quantity.  Expect tons of damage if he charges someone.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 27, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *I imagine that I would be taking much more abuse, except that I've designed Maturak to avoid most forms of attack.
> 
> With greater knowledge of the boons, I think that My Gawd Likes Me rocks.  Since diety level magic breachs Antimagic Fields, you could have an AMF with all kinds of buffs from your patron diety.  With that advantage, one could run around protected by the AMF while Hasted.  That would be so much better than crappy gnome gadgets. *




Yes, but the gawds are capricous and somewhat random.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 27, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *Since Therron is the latest incarnation of the Shield-charger, I wouldn't exactly call him an unknown quantity.  Expect tons of damage if he charges someone. *



 well, as a newcomer, i had no knowledge of the _old_ version, so...



			
				clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Yes, but the gawds are capricous and somewhat random. *



 yeah; to note for your purposes, victim, i only got one boon total, and have to perform a minor quest to get another.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 27, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * well, as a newcomer, i had no knowledge of the old version, so...*



most people don't know about it, unless they've been lurking in the In-Character Forums on here.  

So clockwork - what are the current Quests that are running, to be granted a minor boon?
What currently are the things our PC's can do to be potentially granted one?


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## Victim (Jan 27, 2003)

If you flip over to the rules forum, check out the Sultans of Smack thread.  There's a really old shield bash guy in there.  The cleric trick that I promised not to do early in this thread is in there too.  

I think Artemis's critter is still in that field.


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## Altin (Jan 27, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * actually, i want to see you win just because you've been abused so much. of course, i held the same sentiment towards zalilad... *




As a spectator, I would very much echo that; Hawkeye is the underdog's underdog. After all, how can you root against a guy who uses the phrase 'crazy-hobo-longshot ploy 2'? 

Other crowd favourites (to my mind):

Nr 47 -- stumping everyone as to what the hell you are playing while using only the core books takes some doing, also the character is written very interestingly and, after all, he's killed someone which is more than most people can say. 

Single Malt -- Hell, I'd back him just for the name (and if you've ever had a Macallan you know exactly what I mean) but you've also got to respect the guts it takes to turn into a dragon in the third round of the game. Also, the whole bear-frozen river incident was most amusing. 

Victim was going to get on the list for cool character concept and the falling tree incident but I can't bring myself to cheer on a guy who would kick a man while he's held. 

Yours,
Altin


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## Victim (Jan 28, 2003)

I'm not proud of my cheap shot either.  But my character can't operate at the tempo of other characters, so I need the points now, because I'll almost certainly behind in 10 rounds.  All things being equal, I'd prefer not to perform a coup de grace.


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## Hammerhead (Jan 28, 2003)

Yeah, instead you'd prefer to grapple a bastard spellcaster like Martok and rips his face off with your teeth, right? Because that's so different from a CdG. At least Hawkeye dies quick, unlike the one you grapple.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 28, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *So clockwork - what are the current Quests that are running, to be granted a minor boon?
> What currently are the things our PC's can do to be potentially granted one? *



 there's actually only two actual _Quests_ running, and that's mine and Martok's. you should know that other one fairly well... but if you want to see mine, go browse through the December archives; it's not hard to find.

It's probably a rabbit.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 28, 2003)

you'll forgive me if I forget about Martok's _Quest_ to not attack me, seeing as every round brings another obsessive attack coming Jade's way... 
(she's even just the _cohort_ of my character. 
You'd think he'd spent enough time on her after the Maze, the Forcecage, the 2 Enervations, and the Ray of Enfeeblement during the only rounds he could attack her...)

Good thing the crowd's with him, or those cheesy tactics might be punished by the Gawds.
Oh...  wait.
That's right - the crowd's so hostile to him now, they openly jeer him. 

clockwork - I've been meaning to ask - do _you_ want to play the crowd hostile to Martok, or do you want me to suggest what they might be saying in character?

And I'll rephrase my earlier question to clockwork - 
What are the current ways that a player can be granted a boon from the Gawds?
A recap would be great...

Also - Victim - which cleric trick were you referring to?

And I don't see how finishing someone off after maneuvering successfully and using a neat tactic (Reach weapon expanding beyond your AMF) is a cheap shot.
Seems pretty "fair" (straight-up), comparatively.


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## Victim (Jan 28, 2003)

To use Norman Witherspoon parlance, a coup de grace on a magically held opponent would be rather unsportsman-like.

The cleric trick is to use all the various items in the DMG to boost one's clerical abilities far beyond the normal level.  I developed it for the dungeon game of death, which was core only.  A character in this game using it would have the spells of a 17th level cleric (cast gate without using an advantage), a 21 caster level for level dependent effects and SR checks, and a whole bunch of Maximized spells.  Free metamagic is pretty good.  While the trick works better at mid levels because the proportional gain is greater - the example in my smackdown uses level 9 - it's still a powerful trick at 15th level.  Imagine how nasty the Blade Barrier would be at 120 damage.

EDIT:

That was one nice move Hawkeye.  Very clever.  Shame I had to roll a natural one though.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 28, 2003)

OK.

Discussion time.

What do you all think of when Victim says "unsportsmanlike"?

Do you think there IS such a thing in a GoD, and if so, what would be some examples, or even vague descriptions of such behavior in your eyes?


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## Number47 (Jan 28, 2003)

I as a player see little that is unsportsmanlike in GoD. Maybe Gate. The character of Dabbil, however, is a little different. Dabbil even considers invisibility to be ungentlemanly.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 28, 2003)

First, Jade is now prone on the ground, due to the sudden reduction in strength. She just fell over from the shock of it. 

As for Jade's new movement due to reduced strength. Since her effective strength is now 1 and she is carrying far over a heavy load, she has two options:


A character can generally *push or drag along the ground *up to five times the maximum load. 

1. Since this weight is on her body, she can drag the weight by crawling on the ground without further penalty. She can NOT walk upright with this weight on her body and use these rules. The weight is evenly distributed across her body and she is NOT pushing it or dragging it. 

2. If she wants to stand up, she must first make a strength check of DC 10 to right herself, with a +2 circumstance bonus if she uses the forcecage to help herself up. 

Then when she is standing she will use this rule:



> A character can lift up to double the maximum load off the ground, but he or she can only stagger around with it. While overloaded in this way, the character loses any Dexterity bonus to AC and can only move 5 feet per round (as a full-round action).




And even this is being generous, since she is 4 times over her carrying capacity. 

There is absolutely no way she can walk around with minor penalties when she is carrying 4 times her max capacity. 

Otherwise she can act normally. She can use magic items, cast spells, and so forth. She can remove her armor via the normal rules for doing so while prone.  


As for the crowd: Wowing the crowd is really a way of showing off, as you spending your precious actions in a dangerous game of death just pleasing them and not casting spells, attacking, or otherwise fighting. You gain bonus points for such brazen disregard of personal safety and so forth. However, the crowd will not physically affect the players in any way. It is possible to give morale penalties to other players by whipping the crowd into a frenzy against a particular player. It is not possible to whip the crowd into a frenzy with a single performance check obviously.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 28, 2003)

Oh and sepirorth: Activating a magic item is a standard action so I just removed the attack from your action.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 28, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *First, Jade is now prone on the ground, due to the sudden reduction in strength. She just fell over from the shock of it.
> 
> 1. Since this weight is on her body, she can drag the weight by crawling on the ground without further penalty. She can NOT walk upright with this weight on her body and use these rules. The weight is evenly distributed across her body and she is NOT pushing it or dragging it.
> 
> ...



WHAT??!!

More House Rules?  

In order:
Jade is on the ground because you are granting an additional effect to a *1st level spell* than is written in the rules.

Because the weight is evenly distributed across her body is EXACTLY why she would not be affected.
There is no rules difference between "pushing or dragging" a weight, and using your whole body to pull it.

There's no way _you'll allow me to not be penalized while having a character of mine pulling 4 times max weight (under the max by the rules)._
Let's make that clear.

Pulling off armor takes a minute by the rules, BTW.

As for the crowd reaction:
This is getting ridiculous. I insist that you have the crowd do as their attitude *requires.*
I spent a precious action, and spent 8 character levels of Jade to be able to do what she did:
Greater Calumny, whipping the crowd into a frenzy, making them hostile towards Martok.

It was not a performance check, it was a supernatural, Virtuoso ability.

Why are you ignoring and blunting my character's actions, while magnifying and enhancing Martok's STILL?
What do you want from me, clockwork?

I held my tongue this entire post, and haven't insinuated anything - I stuck with the facts.

edit: pleasepleaseplease let people respond to the points and issues of THIS post, and not bring up a whirlwind of stuff - I don't have time, energy, patience, or will. Just let them comment (if at all) on the words in the post, not bringing their own personal feelings into it.


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## Number47 (Jan 28, 2003)

Wow. Here I was thinking clockworkjoe was being quite generous. You are clearly over the max load for the character. That isn't "quite a lot load", or "I could carry a bit more" load. It is the MAX load. You really should simply be pinned to the ground unable to do anything. Being allowed to stand, or crawl or cast spells is very very very generous. EDIT: Let me give an example. I may be strong enough to push a refrigerator across a floor. I am in no way strong enough to carry it, no matter how you distribute the weight on my body.

I can't comment on the other because I have absolutely no idea what Greater Calumny is. On the other hand, what is it you expect the crowd to do, exactly? What power does the audience hold in the gawds game of death? I suppose a bonus/penalty akin to the Fandom bonus could be worked out, but I would think it pretty minor unless, of course, the Greater Calumny makes it otherwise.


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## Victim (Jan 28, 2003)

Umm, what exactly do you want the crowd to do?  I'm assuming that the arena is kind of separated from the crowd.  For example, Vraketh's cohort cast shield other on her when she was more than 25 ft from edge of the arena, IIRC.  I don't think it works exactly like a normal stadium.  Besides, if it were, the security guards would probably eject any fans that interfered.  I can see something like Fandom penalties applied to Martok.  

Isn't being prone a good thing anyway?  With someone shooting rays at Jade, it might be better to stay on the ground anyway.  I the cage, melee attacks will be a minor issue, and the -4 to enemy ranged attacks.  Also, the weather might affect rays attacks too, since the beams could defract through rain drops.  Those penalties could make further ray attacks near impossible.  

I'd say that the weight effects are more the consequence of having 1 STR than a 1st level spell.  Not only were saves and an RTA involved, but Jade had to have a poor strength too.  I wouldn't complain about a 1st level spell forcing Jade to the ground when a 2nd level spell can render someone helpless with fewer defenses.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 28, 2003)

I dropped you to the ground because there is no way for you t stand up holding that weight realistically. By your logic, a character with 10 strength should be able to carry 400 pounds of equipment with few penalties. I'm not going to 

I'm not going to do that.

You are still able to make perform checks if you want to.

As for the crowd: they aren't going to save you or kill Martok. The whole point of the crowd was to allow players to show off and gain bonus points by essentially saying "I'm so badass I don't even need this turn." They're a way to get bonus points, not a tool to use in battle. 

I'm sorry if I ever gave you the impression that the crowd would physically act out. I never intended for that to happen.

And you haven't sacrificed any levels to gain bardic ability in exchange for anything else and you know that.


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## Saepiroth (Jan 28, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Oh and saepiroth: Activating a magic item is a standard action so I just removed the attack from your action. *



 ok, cool. 


_Removed pic with inappropriate language on it. And flame-bait as well. - Darkness_


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## JDragon (Jan 28, 2003)

Regarding the Crowd, - you can whip them in to a freenzy or what the book calls it.  THis does not mean that they are going to be able to do anthing to the people in the arena.  THis is even more true here than normal, as the arean is controled by Gawds. If you were here watching this would you do something thats going to piss of the gawds?  Now if you were trying to get them to go after the cohorts in the crowd that would be a different story.

As for the weight, I'm having trouble seeing what your weight is exactly (or its just not posted, understandably) so thats kinda tuff.  But, if Jade is over her max load in wieght attached to the her (IE armor, backpacks, pouches) then I wouls say she is on the ground. 

The whole point of how the system is writen is to make it simple. You can carry up to X and move with out an issue.  THe larger X gets the slower you go. Once X gets so large you can't move, end of story.  Yes you can push, using leverage, possition and abiltiy to rest occasionly to move more, but that is very, very diffrent than having it piled on you, dispercement makes no diffrence after a certin point. (which from what CWJ has said Jade is over)

JDragon


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## JDragon (Jan 28, 2003)

Double post - 

& Saepiroth - please pull the picture before a Mod sees it and closes the thread.

JDragon


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## Darkness (Jan 28, 2003)

Taken care of...

And keep cool, folks, ok?


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## reapersaurus (Jan 28, 2003)

(I see Saeph took lessons in flame-bait from blackshirt#5 and others) 

RE: Crowd.
I am not looking for the crowd to kill Martok or something silly like that - I'm sorry if I got that impression across.
My insistence is that their hostile attitude is simply kept in mind for whatever kinds of effects that clockwork has already in mind with the crowds.
You all mentioned them.
Number47 asked "What power does the audience hold in the gawds game of death?"
Well, I don't know, that's for clockwork to decide, as he had alluded to benefits and advantages of crowd influencing.

Fandom penalties for Martok, I'd agree that they'd be appropriate in this Game. I believe that I had Jade use a VERY unique ability, that is more applicable for this very Game of Death than almost ANY possible scenario I can think of. I even role-played it very carefully, and I thought well enough to be granted a benefit.

Are spells that clockwork doesn't object to the only way to be effective in this Game?

Clockwork - I did use 1 level specifically for the powers that culminate in Greater Calumny (it requires 17 ranks of Perform, guys. Look it up in S&S. It changes a crowd's reaction VERY negatively towards the target.)
You was dismissing it as a simple performance, and that's not accurate, and I feel you'd want to know that (based on what you've told all of us).

RE: Weight.
Whether you have Jade crawl, or walk, it's still in the rules quite clearly that she can drag 5 times her Max load (and I openly posted the weights earlier, if anyone missed them : she's under 45 pounds).
The only thing that I can read in the PHB that slows her down is unfavorable conditions, such as rocky ground which would reduce it 1/2.
I don't think its that realistic to have a person not slowed down when they're dragging 5 times their max load (and further, it's not realistic that someone wouldn't be slowed when crawling), so I'll ask for realistic House Rules:

Since I believe I have the Rules on my side here, (I know, you're saying it doesn't matter, but I think clockwork has shown a desire to root House Rules based on the written rules along with what sounds reasonable), I request this:

To dodge the problem of the rules saying that a PC can drag something that heavy with no penalty, why don't we counter-House Rule how long it takes to get out of a chain shirt?
She simply wears a light chain shirt when travelling and in battle, cause it's the most protective for its weight (25 pounds).
She likes it dangly to let her Perform without binding.
The book says an unhurried removal of light armor takes 1 minute.
As i see it, she'd just slump forward, and slip out of the chain shirt (escape artist with DC 10?). (Maybe she'd lose her top or something... )

I don't see realistically how it would take so long to get a shirt off when she's already been forced prone (by a RoE!). But I'm no expert in armor - how does that sound to you guys? (mostly clockwork)


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 29, 2003)

She can wiggle out of the chain shirt with 1d3 standard/partial actions, or a free action  if she uses the Christmas gift. 

I will roll the exact number of rounds if you decide to do that for your action.

edit to say that the genesis of the whole perform for the crowd came from another game I ran online where the whole point of the game was to outcreate the other players with stories/images/flash videos/music/whatever. 

In this game, I wanted to give creative players a chance to show off their skills and earn some bonus points doing it. Dr. Midnight earned a bunch of points with his AWESOME character portait and any living character can still whip something up to contribute. 

It is NOT intended to give a player any advantage over opponents. If you want a mob to whip into a frenzy, (or if you want anything else) petition the gods to grant your wish. 

BTW the only ongoing quests are hunt the beast in the field and the quest you placed on martok.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 29, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *outcreate the other players with stories/images/flash videos/music/whatever.
> 
> In this game, I wanted to give creative players a chance to show off their skills and earn some bonus points doing it. Dr. Midnight earned a bunch of points with his AWESOME character portait and any living character can still whip something up to contribute. *



"creative players"?
what does creative mean, exactly?

There has been roleplay, strategic actions, style points, lyrics used, etc.
One could argue that being able to make these GoD characters is being creative.

Limiting the rewards of "Creativity" to spectacular examples like Dr. Midnight's fantastic skill with art is a tad.... limiting, and sets the bar unreasonably high for participation.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 29, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *If you want a mob to whip into a frenzy, (or if you want anything else) petition the gods to grant your wish. *



What is "petition the gods to grant your wish" exactly?

And the crowd already IS in a "frenzy" against Martok.
Their attitudes can not get any worse towards him. That's what Jade's Greater Calumny caused.
Did I waste an action doing that? I thought long and hard, and decided that for this GoD, I should play to the crowd to match the environment you've put together.

I could have much easier just continued trying to have Jade protect herself (not that it's going to matter with Martok the uber-assassin flying around, using every resource to kill the cohort).
But I changed my tactics to try to match your Tournament.
I guess there's no way for her to get out of the situation...


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 29, 2003)

you are being rewarded. You will get bonus points at the end of the game. That is reward enough. 


As for petitoning, There is a small chance that the gawds random action is geared towards helping a specific player or players (no, it has not been selected yet.). If a player specifically states what he or she wants, that will happen, otherwise they get what the gawds think is best.

edit to say that you can still use your christmas gift to negate the ray. Sorry I forgot to mention that earlier.


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## reapersaurus (Jan 29, 2003)

Thanks for the points.
I was hoping for a more active reward, though, like the other guys suggested: the Fandom penalty applied to Martok -   he has NO penalties, nobody is targetting him. His freedom of actions and advantages are getting more and more, I'm afraid his position will be hard for anybody to take out soon (between him and Jarrod, I'd put money on them winning the Game).

I know exactly what Jade would petition for - I'll email you what a faithful cleric of the Pantheon would wish for their help with.

And I can't risk using the Xmas present on the Ray - I'm almost positive that Berk has a readied action waiting to cast another one if she shrugs the 1st one off (with his long haste duration).
Due to the Enervation, as you wrote, she pretty much is crippled.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 29, 2003)

Does anyone know how to contact Vraketh? I just got an email sent back since his inbox is apparently full. What's going on with him?


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## Agladan (Jan 29, 2003)

I will try to notify Green Slime.

/Agladan


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 29, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Thanks for the points.
> I was hoping for a more active reward, though, like the other guys suggested: the Fandom penalty applied to Martok -   he has NO penalties, nobody is targetting him. His freedom of actions and advantages are getting more and more, I'm afraid his position will be hard for anybody to take out soon (between him and Jarrod, I'd put money on them winning the Game).
> 
> I know exactly what Jade would petition for - I'll email you what a faithful cleric of the Pantheon would wish for their help with.
> ...




...


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## Saepiroth (Jan 29, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *(between him and Jarrod, I'd put money on them winning the Game). *



 as long as Bhaal and his Deepwood Sniper is still in the game, those fliers will be in a bad way. if he takes good advantage of his current opportunity, he can clear out the room very quickly.


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## Victim (Jan 29, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * as long as Bhaal and his Deepwood Sniper is still in the game, those fliers will be in a bad way. if he takes good advantage of his current opportunity, he can clear out the room very quickly. *




If Fingolfin stands in the middle of the arena, the entire place is probably in the first range increment.  Still, he might have a hard time hitting all the invisible people since he doesn't seem to have True Seeing.

However, in a few rounds, I'd imagine many of the flying characters will be forced to the ground by the wind.  That could even things up a bit.


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## clockworkjoe (Jan 29, 2003)

Would anyone mind If I gave my thoughts about who is likely to win? I would base my observations on past actions and I won't reveal any secret info.


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## JDragon (Jan 29, 2003)

CWJ - as much as I would like to see your opinions and don't think it would be an indication of anything.  

I think it would be better if you didn't so its not twisted and turned into a reason for more complaining.

The stress attached to this event seems to be running very high at times, it don't want to see anything that would get the thread closed.

I think we were lucky it was not closed due to the graphic posted yesterday.

BTW -just is all just IMHO

JDragon

PS. CWJ Congrats again on the article in KotDT.


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## Twinswords (Jan 29, 2003)

Well i`m honoured that that somebody thinks that i will win. But there are only two people dead. And a lot of people are still uninjured. So i don`t want to be a favourit. One, they end up dead, two there are still some characters i haven`t seen in real action. So my geuss is still open.

Have fun and to all succes.

Jarrod


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## Bhaal (Jan 29, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *
> 
> If Fingolfin stands in the middle of the arena, the entire place is probably in the first range increment.  Still, he might have a hard time hitting all the invisible people since he doesn't seem to have True Seeing.
> 
> However, in a few rounds, I'd imagine many of the flying characters will be forced to the ground by the wind.  That could even things up a bit. *



Don't forget the wind also puts a penalty on my ranged attacks.  Now of course I've got a decent attack bonus, but some of you have a wicked AC (ictrik).  Also, I think most of the arena is in my first range increment wherever I stand.

Clockwork, I'd be interested to hear who you think might win, though I have some candidates myself.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 29, 2003)

So far, I only have some ideas about who I think _isn't_ going to win. Maybe you could just group us into what you consider "strong" and "weak" choices, for just idle speculation's purpose. My opinion is that darn near anybody is up for a body bag as long as certain people still have a christmas twenty left. I also think certain very strong character will be exceptionally weak against Maturak and can only win if someone else kills Maturak for them.

If Vraketh's player is being hard to reach, that means we have a wait on our hands until next action is posted, doesn't it? Damn.


----------



## Victim (Jan 29, 2003)

It would be amusing to see your opinions.  

Based on events so far, I think I can make some decent threat estimations.  However, it's hard to accurately assess someone's abilities.  If character A launches a full attack on B and misses with everything on decent rolls, does that mean that A has a sucky attack bonus or B has a great AC?  But, based on apparent gear and such, it should still be possible to come up with something.  So I'd have to agree with Number47 about the strong and weak brackets.

Still, I'd imagine that most characters haven't revealed the full extent of their abilities.  You can pull pretty amusing tricks with low end items and spells.  

I think Martok is in a good position.  I wonder how many instant death spells he's saving up.  I almost get the feeling that he's just toying with Jade while he waits to see who's dangerous.

I'm not so sure about Jarrod's abilities.  It seems like a Greater Dispeling would put him in his place, and he's exposing himself to attacks.  

Maturak was designed to be the ANTI-smackdown character.  I looked up the old smacks and the IC ones and tried to negate as many of them as possible.  It's not exactly the best design philosophy, in my opinion, but I think making a character that is flying around in an AMF was a pretty neat idea.  Too bad I messed up fighting Ancryx.  I guess we'll see if he was a good idea or not.  

I think Dabbil's versatility makes him pretty decent.  That and huge reach.

If Therron is able to escape from the force cage, then he's in good shape.  He'd come in fresh with some unknown defenses, and I bet he could kill most characters in the game with a successful charge attack.  However, having a crippled cohort might slow him down some.

Yasumoto is either really dangerous, or sucky.  I'd guess really dangerous, since I'm assuming he's got big Sneak Attacks to go with his Blinking.  Sure, he only dealt 67 damage in 2 rounds.  But add in another 7d6 per hit - 42d6 - and we're talking about more than 200 damage.  And he blinked out on a few of his attacks.

Fingolfin and Ancryx seem like a nasty team that can do damage while risking little.  Keep an eye on them.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 29, 2003)

Ok, I'll just list who I think is in a strong, moderate, and weak position currently. 

Strong (able to dominate game, or at least survive a long time, or not seriously threatened currently): Maturak, Martok, Dabbil, Macallan, Jarrod, Vraketh, Therron, Ancryx

Moderate (not about to die, but not currently able to dominate game) Norman, Yasumoto, Sepiroth, Landerin, Harsel

Weak (as moderate but seriously threatened by other players): Hawkeye, Fingolfin, Jade


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## reapersaurus (Jan 30, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Would anyone mind If I gave my thoughts about who is likely to win? I would base my observations on past actions and I won't reveal any secret info. *



I for one would be very interested.
Email me if ya want.

edit: oops. never mind if that post is what you were thinking...


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 30, 2003)

where do you place Icitrik then? moderate with my horribly assembled mishmash of design philosophies or upstairs with the big boys?

but everyone should remember not to discount anyone still alive. with the Rambo and Ultimate BBG special events still available to occur at any moment, the tide of the game can change drastically.

Hawkeye-->Rambo would be comedy++.


----------



## Victim (Jan 30, 2003)

What are those special events?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 30, 2003)

Oops, missed Icitrik. He's in the moderate category.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 30, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *What are those special events? *



 the wind, the golem, the kobolds, etc.

i remember he outlined a lot of them somewhere. possibly on SA, maybe here. maybe the first post. here's two i think remember... 

Rambo; one character gets fully restored to the condition they were in upon entering the match: all items restored, all conditions reset, all spell slots refilled... and also becomes worth 2x normal points to kill.

Ultimate BBG; immense, galvanizingly powerful monster appears on the battlefield. all characters say "oh".


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 30, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * i remember he outlined a lot of them somewhere. possibly on SA, maybe here. maybe the first post. here's two i think remember...  *



That must have been on SA.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 30, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * the wind, the golem, the kobolds, etc.
> 
> i remember he outlined a lot of them somewhere. possibly on SA, maybe here. maybe the first post. here's two i think remember...
> 
> ...




the wind, golems, kobolds are all events, but I don't remember writing anything about a rambo or BBEG event.


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 30, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> the wind, golems, kobolds are all events, but I don't remember writing anything about a rambo or BBEG event. *



 I remember reading it... I think you must've said it in SA. i think the thread just got pruned, though.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 30, 2003)

I wonder if the rain falling is accumulating into ice on the frozen river? Or maybe it is rushing down it rapidly to the south. Either way, poor tiger. If he doesn't get free soon he is in deepak chopra.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 30, 2003)

[poking fun] No problem, about the entombed kitty.
Hawkeye could have taught him to take out a snorkel from his backpack, swim down holding his breath (easy CON save), then do an underwater Bullrush, breaking thru the ice and getting a surprise attack on MAturak. [/poking fun]


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 30, 2003)

As for animal companions being too smart and thus too powerful for being 'free':

1. Animal companions are NOT cohorts and are nowhere near as powerful or useful as cohorts. They are considered part of the druid/ranger class package and should be used as such.

2. I don't find it hard to believe that an animal that loves and wants to protect someone could: Know his master was afraid and in a bad spot (smell of fear down wind etc), see a massive threat approach the general direction of his master, and then throw himself in between the threat and his master.  

This is a game where a gnome can turn into a dragon, people throw around fireballs like they were going out of style, and psychic undead humans create armies of servants out of their bad attitude. Having a bear perform a simple combat action is not that hard to believe, is it?

It's the freaking lassie of bears, alright?


----------



## Victim (Jan 30, 2003)

I don't think animal companions are free.  To have effective animal companions requires a high level ranger, druid, or cleric with the animal domain, or rings of animal friendship.  Either way, it costs class levels and/or wealth.  So it's hardly free.


----------



## Number47 (Jan 30, 2003)

I've got me an addition to my sig! What's that, Bruno? Rale Hawkeye is trapped in the well?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Jan 31, 2003)

Oh yeah, one last thing. If Vraketh misses his next turn, I'm going to drop him from the game. 3 rounds missed == bye bye.


----------



## reapersaurus (Jan 31, 2003)

clockwork - I'm wondering about the game timing :
you're in the best position to comment : why is it taking so many characters the whole day (max time) to get their actions posted?

Is it because the majority (minus the ones that were posted in less than a full day) are waiting to send in their actions?

Is it compounded by the timing of them sending it to you, and it taking a while for you to get a chance to add it on the site?

Is it perhaps a personal preference on your part to extend the action time, to make less intense work for yourself? (That's not a slam - I'd understand if it was a lot of work, and you might want a slower pace, to a point)

Which is the better explanation for why our actions take so long (on the whole)?
Thanks in advance for any light being shed...


----------



## Saepiroth (Jan 31, 2003)

some people are just really slow, probably. you've noticed that most of the time turns come in spurts.


----------



## Victim (Jan 31, 2003)

First of all, some people are slower than others.

Second, now that we've progressed into the game some more, there is much more interaction between characters.  Fingolfin, Ancryx, Tobias, Jarrod, Saepiroth, and Icitrik are all the area fighting each other, and thus they'd probably want to see exactly what the characters ahead of them do.  And characters that aren't directly involved still have a vested interest in what happens.

So most players can longer submit actions in advance and expect things to go well.


----------



## Victim (Feb 1, 2003)

Fingolfin, your turn.


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## SA-Jinx (Feb 1, 2003)

[I'm not going to say much here, except that I'm glad I'm dead. I see this all ending badly when it comes down to the last few uber-munchkins slugging it out.

Honestly, even with what I have learnt here, I wouldn't play another game like this if it included some of the people from this game...


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 1, 2003)

fingoflin turned his action in on time, i was busy.


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 1, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *[I'm not going to say much here, except that I'm glad I'm dead. I see this all ending badly when it comes down to the last few uber-munchkins slugging it out.
> 
> Honestly, even with what I have learnt here, I wouldn't play another game like this if it included some of the people from this game... *



 no need for the vitriol. you know you're applying your view of one person to many, and that's not fair.


----------



## Number47 (Feb 1, 2003)

I hope that it isn't the level of design we put into our characters. It is a competition, after all, and we each want to win. If it is the dislike for a certain person or two, odds are they won't be in the next Game of Death. No DM is forced to let just anyone play, after all.


----------



## SA-Jinx (Feb 1, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * no need for the vitriol. you know you're applying your view of one person to many, and that's not fair. *




If you think I'm gnashing my teeth over dying, you're wrong. I'm just disappointed with the behaviour of some people in this game, how people approach it.



			
				Number47 said:
			
		

> *I hope that it isn't the level of design we put into our characters. It is a competition, after all, and we each want to win.*




Yes, and at times winning far overshadows playing a fun game. I'm going to shut up now, as I don't want to start another argument.


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 1, 2003)

SA-Jinx said:
			
		

> *If you think I'm gnashing my teeth over dying, you're wrong. I'm just disappointed with the behaviour of some people in this game, how people approach it.
> 
> Yes, and at times winning far overshadows playing a fun game. I'm going to shut up now, as I don't want to start another argument. *




what

no, seriously, what

the nature of the game is "winning". that's what it _is_, he said as much when he asked for recruitment here and at SA.

jesus, only reaper has even seemed to begin to approach the game from a particularly offensive light, and even that's understandable. I overreacted there, both here and on the game site, but at least drama has been kept to a relative minimum for the tension in the game.

in conclusion, jinx,


----------



## Azure Trance (Feb 2, 2003)

God, he's an ugly sucker.


----------



## reapersaurus (Feb 2, 2003)

nice to see Saeph is continuing his mocking tone, but he's got a voice, all right.

Jinx - I agree with the others that winning is usually a goal in a GoD. Bringing a character that is sub-par, power-wise will probably result in an early exit.

Now that doesn't exclude you from having fun.
If anyone wants to bring in a character and do *whatever*, that's fine by me. More power to you if FUN is the primary goal for you, and your sense of fun in a GoD is not to be successful in game-terms.

Now if you're idea of fun is eradicated by people questioning house rules and results of actions which are harmful to their characters in a GoD, than I conclude that perhaps your approach to this GoD was not very realistic.

I'll try to help you by pointing you to an area you may enjoy immensely, if you give it a shot: try out the forum-formerly-known-as the In-Character Forum - there's lots of role-playing there, and nary an ounce of ill will, or questioning of rules & actions. It's all-roleplay, all the time. Maybe that is what you're looking for?

While I'm here, I'd like to thank Seaph for mentioning that my reaction towards already-recognized-as-questionable rulings against my character(s) is understandable. (paraphrasing)
Further, I'd like to state that I totally understand Berk's desire to try and twist every rule in benefit of his character. Also remember, he was all up in arms and vocal about the Tree of Death move which (I guess could be concluded as) was ruled not to his liking. 
Props to Berk for having the open ear of clockwork, and getting consistently favorable house rulings.

clockwork, likewise, is trying to run a time-consuming, all-out battle, and simultaneously throwing in custom effects and rulings.

This has led to a lot of drama, and strategic concern over the survivability of our entries in the GoD.
I thought that's why we all signed up?

I'd conclude that all the gnashing of teeth and interplay of this Game is to be expected, up till now. 
I don't get what else SA-Jinx was looking for in a GoD?


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 3, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Props to Berk for having the open ear of clockwork, and getting consistently favorable house rulings. *




sigh...

"1d3 rounds for jade to escape her armor, when it should take her a full minute, or free action if you use your christmas present."

you're getting favorable rulings yourself. sure, you're being focused on simultaneously by a number of characters and getting the crap beaten out of you by Martok, but in the context of the rules it's fair. more than fair, in fact, in the same way that everyone else is getting benefits that are somewhat more than fair. and you and I argued for the current ruling on the Tree o' Death too, remember. Berk wasn't alone in that regard.

to clarify my position regarding you on a more complete level; i think what has happened to you is fair, in the context of the game. however, i can understand your reactions to what has happened to you, since i can understand how you might feel that you are discriminated against. my angry reactions to you were completely unreasoned and unjust; I can understand that you are not viewing things from the same angle i am, since you're the one getting beaten on, after all. it's not fair for me to complain about that.

also, to note... your main character is still untouched. you have Jade getting kicked in the stomach, admittedly, but therron is unharmed. i will note this, too; in the last game, from what i read, the winner was a character who had been trapped in a corner bhind a Forcewall for the length of the game. perhaps your forcecage and Maze will have the same effect.

besides, therron still might reappear outside the forcecage when he reconstitutes. depending on interaction rulings, of course.


----------



## reapersaurus (Feb 3, 2003)

good post, Seaph - and wonderfully reasonable and non-inflammatory (even though I didn't want to bring up the past)
However, I think you've forgotten why Jade is in the dire spot she's in, which I fully expect her to be dead from within 3 rounds:

the house rule on Quest was a death sentence for her.
It was her most powerful defense, and because of that un-disclosed personal rule, Jade can't fight back.
That was not _fair_, in any twisting of the word (and I'm not the only one who has acknowledged this point).
But I didn't bring this up, so I'll drop this, because I've come to terms with it - however unfair it was, it's clockwork's Game, and if he wanted it to go down like that, than that's the way it is.
I'll have to make due with the strengths I designed into my main character, Therron, and hope they are enough to get SOME playing in before this is all through.

Currently, the only real problem I have with the game is how damn slow it's going.   (admit it)
Playing with a crippled cohort who is only getting weaker is not my idea of fun.
So here's my request:
Whoever can send their actions a little ahead of time (just one or 2 players ahead) would greatly speed up the game.
If you require the results of a character's actions directly ahead of you, you are immune to this request. I doubt if everyone is in that situation, though, are they?

P.S I just re-read the site: Icitrik is who we were waiting for an action over the holiday 'break' in Round 4.
Round 5, and we waited 2 days for his response.
Now in Round 6, it's over a day for his action again.

clockwork - verdict? It's a big game - I didn't think you were up for one player slowing it down for everyone?


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## Saepiroth (Feb 4, 2003)

jeez, lay off him, reaper. if he holds things up too long, like Vraketh is, then he'll be removed if he fails to respond for a long enough time. he changed his e-mail since i last contacted him, too, so i am at a loss for yelling at him to "put up or shut up".

also; from the constant whiffing that goes on around me, i think talking Clockwork into using the OA tumble table and focusing heavily on a high AC has paid off. i may have absolutely no ability to deal damage without my main weapon,  but i also seem to be untouchable. a dollar says that i take no AoOs on my next move. 

i'll probably get charged up the backdoor, though.  depends on if Jarrod can outrun my contingency plan.


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## Victim (Feb 4, 2003)

I'm waiting for the gods to act.


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 4, 2003)

Updates are slow on the weekend because I do things on the weekend. 

Players get 24 hours from when I contact them to send their turn in.


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## Victim (Feb 4, 2003)

Remember, Maturak only gets a checked result if he fails the save.  Which direction is the wind blowing?


----------



## clockworkjoe (Feb 6, 2003)

Updated with the flying stuff. Pretty easy to make those flying checks when the DC is only 15. 

Anywho.


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 6, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *Updated with the flying stuff. Pretty easy to make those flying checks when the DC is only 15.
> 
> Anywho. *



 channeling Happyelf, i see


----------



## bebo (Feb 6, 2003)

?


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 6, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * channeling Happyelf, i see  *




Actually, saying that the hawk is too cool for school and thus doesn't have to make a check is easier than making the check itself.  And I never paid attention to happyelf. I jus


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## Saepiroth (Feb 6, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I jus *


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## Victim (Feb 6, 2003)

It's not like the hawk matters much anyway.  It doesn't even have an altitude listed.

BTW, where the heck is Maturak?  Based on the old maps, it looks like Hawkeye set down the wine in X 95, Y 78.  Therefore, I guess Maturak should be in X 93, Y 78.  Dang.  I just realized that the old maps were still up as wrote this post.  Otherwise, my move would have been much more clear.


----------



## Jeremy (Feb 7, 2003)

POW!! On the floor unconscious and bleeding.    There's some action!


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## Saepiroth (Feb 8, 2003)

well, christ. i guess that's the benefit of ultra-high sneak attack damage.

ah, well. it's a nice break for the little drama of Harsel's and Landerin's.


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## Number47 (Feb 8, 2003)

I don't know why my turn wasn't posted, too. I sent it in a couple days ago.l


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## DM with a vengence (Feb 8, 2003)

And I'd like to dedicate this one to Jeremy and all the other fine folks at Way Too Much Free Time Ltd.

I knew I'd made a decent character.


----------



## Jeremy (Feb 8, 2003)




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## reapersaurus (Feb 8, 2003)

I have a couple questions I wanted to open up to the group:

1) What is the range of Obscuring Mist?
2) Does anyone know of something that can see thru Obscuring Mist, other than Blindsight?
3) What do you think of Martok being able to cast Disintigrate against Jade ? (which he is specifically not allowed to do, by Zeus' own dictate, I thought)


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 8, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *
> questions *




area; 30 foot wide by 20 feet tall, as in the PHB.

only things that allow seeing things other than physical objects, or non-sight seeing, should see though a mist. say, Deathwatch should let you see a corpse or almost-dead person in an obscuring mist, or Blindsight, or something similar. True Seeing should not work.

third; yes, that is something that goes directly against the god-enforced quest. therefore, at the beginning of the next round, Zeus should  his  up for daring to go against a God's will.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Feb 9, 2003)

Martok can not destroy the body of Jade true but he also knew that Jade could not be destroyed by the spell because of the christmas present.


----------



## JDragon (Feb 9, 2003)

> Martok can not destroy the body of Jade true but he also knew that Jade could not be destroyed by the spell because of the christmas present.




That seems really meta-game to me, since it was given to the players, but not played out in the game?  Plus is their a little sign above all the characters that shows if we've used our gift that all the other characters can see?

JDragon


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 9, 2003)

yeah... i still think martok should get bitchsmacked by zeus at the height of the next round, at least in some minor way, for defying a god's will.

maybe just a flash of dispel or something... maybe he suddenly goes BOP and loses his _Flying_. or maybe Zeus uses a holy backhand pimpslap to fling him to another corner of the map (dealing no damage, of course).


----------



## clockworkjoe (Feb 9, 2003)

JDragon said:
			
		

> *
> 
> That seems really meta-game to me, since it was given to the players, but not played out in the game?  Plus is their a little sign above all the characters that shows if we've used our gift that all the other characters can see?
> 
> JDragon *




Oh, I'm sorry. You must think that no one else is metagaming in this all or that I care about that or not.  If anything, this entire battle is an exercise in metagaming knowledge and tactics. 

 

This is not an exercise in intricate social interaction and I've never had a real big problem with metagaming either.


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 9, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Oh, I'm sorry. You must think that no one else is metagaming in this all or that I care about that or not.  If anything, this entire battle is an exercise in metagaming knowledge and tactics.
> 
> ...



 sorry. it just felt a like it was a bit... _more_ metagame. everyone here (including me!) is metagaming the hell out of things though, so i suppose it doesn't matter.

the holy hammer will come down if he uses another Disintegrate, though, right?


----------



## Number47 (Feb 9, 2003)

That was disintegrate? I had assumed Finger of Death.


----------



## Victim (Feb 9, 2003)

Finger of Death isn't a Ray, and thus wouldn't have a to hit roll.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Feb 9, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * sorry. it just felt a like it was a bit... more metagame. everyone here (including me!) is metagaming the hell out of things though, so i suppose it doesn't matter.
> 
> the holy hammer will come down if he uses another Disintegrate, though, right? *




Obviously.

I still don't understand why Therron depended on the Quest so much. I'm not going to make a 6th level spell let one player control another with no savings throw and the penalties for not following a quest aren't that big of a deal anyway. 3d6 damage and 1/2 move and -4 to strength and dex if he fails a fort save.  

If a majority of players are bothered by Martok's action, then I will apply the 3d6 damage and give him a fort save for the ability damage. Wow. 

If I let Quest be that powerful, then someone could quest every single other player aside from Ancryx to first kill Ancryx and then each other.  That is a little unbalanced for a 6th level spell. 

I think the Quest is the "GM railroading tool par excellence" and not a valid spell to use in combat. 

So there.


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 9, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> *I think the Quest is the "GM railroading tool par excellence" and not a valid spell to use in combat.
> 
> So there. *


----------



## Hammerhead (Feb 9, 2003)

Obviously I think that no one wants Quest to be that powerful. Also, might I add that Maturak would also be immune to Quest, due to his AMF.

However, the point is that reaper thought Quest would be that powerful, because no ruling on its supreme munchkinness was made before he used it. He essentially wasted an action using it.


----------



## reapersaurus (Feb 9, 2003)

[ungag] it COULD have been nerfed to provide a saving throw, you know. [gag]


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 9, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *[ungag] it COULD have been nerfed to provide a saving throw, you know. [gag] *



 true, but if he had done that originally, and Martok had saved on it, you would have complained just as much as if things had gone the way they have.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Feb 10, 2003)

Hammerhead said:
			
		

> *Obviously I think that no one wants Quest to be that powerful. Also, might I add that Maturak would also be immune to Quest, due to his AMF.
> 
> However, the point is that reaper thought Quest would be that powerful, because no ruling on its supreme munchkinness was made before he used it. He essentially wasted an action using it. *




No way I can list every unbalanced element in 3E d&d. I only get 5 gigs of bandwidth for free a month on slangdesign.com


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## Saepiroth (Feb 10, 2003)

clockworkjoe said:
			
		

> * I only get 5 gigs of bandwidth for free a month on slangdesign.com *



 meh, that's a good deal if it's for free.

though, where's my turn, dude? i can't wait to see if i manage to crit. fumble and stab myself in the face or something...


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 10, 2003)

wow, i think i hit him.


----------



## reapersaurus (Feb 10, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * true, but if he had done that originally, and Martok had saved on it, you would have complained just as much as if things had gone the way they have. *



1) He wouldn't have saved.

2) He wouldn't have saved twice.

Some nice damage going on there. Better than a sharp stab in the eye.


----------



## Saepiroth (Feb 10, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *1) He wouldn't have saved.
> 
> 2) He wouldn't have saved twice. *



 why do you say that?


----------



## Victim (Feb 10, 2003)

Martok probably could have saved.  Arcane classes have good Will saves, and he's probably reinforced that save by taking PrCs like Archmage or Red Wizard.  He has an Owl's Wisdom running as well.  Toss in the obligatory save boosting items and I'd think he has a good chance of making the save.  

Of course, many characters I see here don't have cloaks of resistance.


----------



## Number47 (Feb 10, 2003)

How would you know if they were or weren't? Many equipment items are not appearing in our descriptions. I for one believe that a magical cloak is absolutely essential. I just wish I could wear more than one.


----------



## clockworkjoe (Feb 10, 2003)

Number47 is right, I only listed held items, armor and ioun stones for the most part. If I listed every piece of clothing and jewelry many people would be able to figure out every magic item a person was wearing or narrow it down to a few items. I didn't want players to figure out everything about a PC by his description alone.


----------



## reapersaurus (Feb 10, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> * why do you say that?  *



*lamenting my first, 2nd, and 3rd character builds* He wouldn't have for SURE with those -
Gads, that was an awesome build ....  *wipes away tear for the friend he never knew*


----------



## Victim (Feb 10, 2003)

I mean when I see people post characters on these boards, many of them lack cloaks of resistance.  For example, in an IC game I'm playing in, most of the posted characters have lacked items that give bonuses to saves.  

While I doubt that Game of Death characters would lack such a basic defense, it is possible that someone overlooked it, or focused entirely on something else.


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## Berk (Feb 11, 2003)

Ahhhh, it's been too long since I've last posted. So many time consuming things going on and just getting back from a 2 week get away to good ol toxic NJ. 

I don't personally care to respond to most of what has been said about me. DND has been one of my passions since I was 8 years old. I love the game, even though I've been enjoying d20 modern a lot lately. (It f'n rocks) I will just always love DND, all editions of it, some more then others of course. Anyways, to get back on track. I never made my character to actually win the game. I actually never thought that I could with this particular character. I aimed to make it to one of the last few remaining and to shake some things up while getting there. Seems I've succeeded in doing that with how reaper keeps acting. Can't wait to see some peoples reactions when I do other things that my character has in mind and in store. I love playing DND, and I play it good, or so I think and so I've been told. My character might be min/maxed but is in no way a munchkin, though some might think he is. Anyways, it's good to be back and finally caught up with all the post. 

The game is going decently good so far, I'm having fun and I hope others are also. Let's please keep it that way so we can all have fun.


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## Saepiroth (Feb 11, 2003)

Berk said:
			
		

> *Can't wait to see some peoples reactions when I do other things that my character has in mind and in store.
> 
> The game is going decently good so far, I'm having fun and I hope others are also. Let's please keep it that way so we can all have fun. *




well... i'm, certainly having fun watching!


from a distance, of course...


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 12, 2003)

Well it's not like Hawkeye has a lot of options. I forgot, did you cast that before or after being enervated or from an item reapre?


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## Victim (Feb 12, 2003)

IIRC, he said someplace that it was from a scroll.
Here we go:



> Hawkeye - I'll let you in on something.
> 
> She cast it from a scroll.
> 
> ...


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 13, 2003)

which means 3 round duration...the hold person is over isn't it or is until next turn?


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## Victim (Feb 13, 2003)

I think it ends on Jade's turn this round.  It was cast in round 4.


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## Number47 (Feb 13, 2003)

If it was a divine scroll. A five round duration it was arcane.


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## Saepiroth (Feb 13, 2003)

damn scrolls of heal... 

edit; well, if he had to use a full Heal, than he was probably pretty close to his cutoff...


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 13, 2003)

After processing this round, I realized that every point counts for a lot. A lot of very close calls this round. Also, Jarrod's combat precog comes from a gawdly boon.


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## Number47 (Feb 14, 2003)

I guess I'm glad that I didn't take My Gawd Likes Me. Asking in non-metagame terms, I probably would've been granted things that are non-core and I'd be all "what's this?" even more than I am now. Still, the boon seems to be an effective one so far, but so is the one I chose.


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## Saepiroth (Feb 14, 2003)

Number47 said:
			
		

> *I guess I'm glad that I didn't take My Gawd Likes Me. Asking in non-metagame terms, I probably would've been granted things that are non-core and I'd be all "what's this?" even more than I am now. Still, the boon seems to be an effective one so far, but so is the one I chose. *



 i'm _really really glad_ i took My Gawd Likes Me. polearm flying to my hands? a teleport a quarter of the way across the field? this, sir, is "hot shizzit".


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## Victim (Feb 14, 2003)

I wish I had taken it.


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 14, 2003)

Victim said:
			
		

> *I wish I had taken it. *




AMF fields would at least dampen the effects of a boon, can't have them be that useful


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## clockworkjoe (Feb 15, 2003)

will someone tell green slime/vraketh that he has 24 hours from this posting to send me his turn or he will be imprisoned as per the spell?


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## Saepiroth (Feb 16, 2003)

is this 30 hours down or just 18?


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## reapersaurus (Feb 16, 2003)

Is it just me, or has this Game hit a brick wall of uninterest?

If it isn't just me, I'm afraid that people will start dropping out from lack of interest and the moves taking just too darned long.

clockwork - are you fighting to keep the game going, or just letting things slide? Is there something going on in your life that is making it hard for you to continue the Game?
Communicating with us, the players, might help to stave off the fatal killer of online games: lack of activity.

I sent email over 3 days ago, asking a question I need to plan my next move...


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## Terraism (Feb 16, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *Is it just me, or has this Game hit a brick wall of uninterest?
> 
> If it isn't just me, I'm afraid that people will start dropping out from lack of interest and the moves taking just too darned long.
> 
> ...



I think it's starting to slide.  On the other hand, if people start dropping, those of us that are still interested will probably be moving more quickly - and Therron can get out of that Maze a little sooner.


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## Saepiroth (Feb 16, 2003)

calm down, reaper. this round and the next one will be the big attrition rounds. people are going to be dropped, and characters are going to die. it should go down by ~3 or 4 at the end of the next round.


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## reapersaurus (Feb 16, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *On the other hand, if people start dropping, those of us that are still interested will probably be moving more quickly - and Therron can get out of that Maze a little sooner.   *



(wow - one player is mighty quick to reply and still interested! 3 minutes - a new record? )

Yes, that would be a Good Thing, so that I might be able to actually start playing the Game after so long, but if that happened, in my experience, it would just be inevitable that the Game would die.

We should decide as a group how to treat the inactivity of players. If clockwork IS slowing down the Game to allow for players to come back, we should ask:
Do we want to be doing that?
The damage of such an approach probably outweighs the benefits.

And IF clockwork is slowing down the Game because of personal reasons, than we are in big trouble.

Players, we can lose and still go fighting on with the players that want to continue... 

We can't finish the Game without clockwork's continued personal efforts.


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## reapersaurus (Feb 16, 2003)

Saepiroth said:
			
		

> *calm down, reaper. this round and the next one will be the big attrition rounds. people are going to be dropped, and characters are going to die. it should go down by ~3 or 4 at the end of the next round. *



don't do that, Saep.
I'm completely calm, and you know it.
Can't we just talk?

As for your 'point', are you saying that this round's drag is because people are taking extra strategy-time, because the moves are so crucial? (I don't think that's exactly right)

Or is your point that it just takes a long time to drop disinterested players, and the drain on the Game for everyone else is an unfortunate necessity?
(Cause that's an interesting point, if so)

(P.S. the amount of talking within 10 minutes is proof of many Players' commitments, in my eyes.
Good job, guys.)


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## Saepiroth (Feb 16, 2003)

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> *don't do that, Saep.
> I'm completely calm, and you know it.
> Can't we just talk?*



 haiku++



> *As for your 'point', are you saying that this round's drag is because people are taking extra strategy-time, because the moves are so crucial? (I don't think that's exactly right)*



 no, i agree that that is bull as an idea. people are just slow.



> *Or is your point that it just takes a long time to drop disinterested players, and the drain on the Game for everyone else is an unfortunate necessity?
> (Cause that's an interesting point, if so)*



 that's what I meant. the two slowpokes get their turns run out next round, and Harsel and possibly someone from the melee over to the east are going to bite the big one.



> *(P.S. the amount of talking within 10 minutes is proof of many Players' commitments, in my eyes.
> Good job, guys.) *



 we are


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## Terraism (Feb 16, 2003)

I'm committed.  Are you committed?  I'm committed.


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## Saepiroth (Feb 16, 2003)

Terraism said:
			
		

> *I'm committed.  Are you committed?  I'm committed.   *



 the funny white burlap shirt makes my shoulders hurt


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## Victim (Feb 17, 2003)

I'm still here.  The next round or so should be interesting.  Almost everyone is in some sort of skirmish.

Hopefully, someone getting dropped for not posting will be a wake up call.  Has Dr. Midnight been posting?  With all of Norman's sneaking around, it's hard to tell if he's doing anything.


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## Dinkeldog (Feb 17, 2003)

I'm going to close this and start a continuation thread.


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