# Diet?



## Bront (Jul 10, 2005)

Over a year ago, I started the South Beach Diet, and it was great.  I lost 65 pounds over 6+ months, felt great, looked much better, and got down to around 260 or so (I'm 6'4", and my goal was 250 or so, so this wasn't too bad).

However, I lost my job, and my GF did too, so I went unemployed for a long time, and fell of the diet (Being it was a bit more expensive, and her kids refused to even think about trying it.)  Since then I've gained a lot of the weight back (I'm honestly not sure if I've gained all of it), and have reciently felt a bit odd about how my weight has been settling around my stomach (Occasional stomach area pain, feeling like I'm about to burst, breathing is occasionaly harder, and my girth has gotten noticable by me again).

Now, I'm pondering getting back on the diet, but am finding it hard to get motivated (Dispite the obvious problems).  I work 3rd shift, so my eating habits haven't been very regular in general, and it's sometimes hard to find something that fits in well with the diet that's available at that time.  I'm also a very picky eater, so the diet limits my already limited choices on what I can and will eat.

It doesn't help that I feel I'm fighting a bit of depression (Something I know I'll always have to deal with due to a chemical imbalance, but sometimes it's better than others, and I've been good for years) and having trouble getting motivated.  Excersize is hard, particularly when 4 days a week, I basicly work, sleep, and have maybe 2-3 hours to do something other than that (10 hour shifts, with a manditory 1 hour lunch, and a 1+ hour comute each way).  My GF's been dieting a bit lately, and but she doesn't like going full South Beach, so she's sort of stepping into step 2 without step 1, and since she's less picky than I am, she's got more choices for things she can eat.  Money is also a bit of a problem, though hopefully it should be less so by the end of the year.

So, basicly I'm overwhelmed and looking for help/advice.  Thanks in advance


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## fusangite (Jul 10, 2005)

Consider Atkins. I stayed on it for years after I lost weight because it controlled/treated my depression as well.


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## Psionicist (Jul 10, 2005)

Whatever you do and however you do it, don't do it alone. It'll be easier that way. That, and walk alot. Preferably before breakfast. If you notice you breath with your mouth and not your nose, you walk to fast, slow down. Then your body will burn fast like crazy, and you will probably feel much better than just eating right.


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## EricNoah (Jul 10, 2005)

I have been counting calories and exercising more over the past couple of months, and it's working.  I walk at least 30 min a day, sometimes I do that twice, I add occasional light weightlifting in between and sometimes bike riding or hiking.  

The key to the food part of it was for me to become hyperconscious of what I was eating and how many calories it was.  I started by just journaling a typical day's worth of food.  I discovered it was around 2500 calories.  I then used the web to figure out my target weight (for my height) and the number of calories per day that would get me there.  

I use the following websites: 

Find out your "ideal" weight range and how many calories you need per day (1500 was my target -- I had to cut 1000 or more calories out of my diet each day!):  http://www.calorieking.com/freeprofile/

Nutritional Info:  http://www.nutritiondata.com/index.html -- type in a food in the search field to find calories

Exercise Minutes --> Calories Burned:  http://www.calorieking.com/tools/exercise_calories.php

Calories to Burn --> Minutes of Exercise: 
http://www.calorieking.com/tools/exercise_time.php

I started out as "overweight".  It took me only about a week to start "seeing" results, though the weight loss plateaued a couple of weeks into it but then it continued after that.  Dropped the 15 lbs I needed to drop.  I'm now out of the "overweight" zone and on the high side of the "ideal" zone.  

How did I cut 1000 calories out of my diet?  Well, I did some low-carb type things (it was easy to cut out 200 calories per meal just by avoiding typical bread).  I reduced portion sizes on almost everything.  (An "ounce" of food is a lot smaller than you might realize). I did research before going to restaurants so I would know what to order and what to avoid.  I found sweet treats that had a high pay-off compared to calories (this differs by person; for me, a 300 calorie McDonald's hot fudge sundae gave me almost as much pleasure as a 900 calorie Culver's custard shake).  I ate more veggies when I was hungry.  I discovered that a lot of times I wanted to eat when I wasn't hungry -- noting that, and then making sure I fed only my craving (and nothing else) helped.  I stopped snacking at games, I stopped snacking in front of the TV.  And I recorded my food/calories religiously -- I've done it every day for the past two-and-a-half months.  It really keeps me honest, helps me see patterns, and I can look back over it for ideas.  

Ultimately, I decided there was no point in lying to myself -- I also decided that I wanted the weight loss more than I wanted the food.  I've had days when I broke the calorie limit, but the next day I just carried on as usual and didn't beat myself up over it.  

Good luck to you!


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## Nifft (Jul 10, 2005)

Atkins! I quit working out a while back and got chubby. Atkins made me skinny again, and I never count anything but carbs -- and even then, it's more of a "nope, can't eat any of that" vs. "yup, can eat as much of that as I want".

Hunger is gone.

One tip I can give you: look for something zero-calorie (and thus zero-fat & zero-carb) to occupy yourself with during "bored snacking" times. Herb tea, diet soda, sugar free gum, whatever. It's eating when you're bored that kills some people.

 -- N


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## EricNoah (Jul 10, 2005)

Nifft said:
			
		

> Atkins! I quit working out a while back and got chubby. Atkins made me skinny again, and I never count anything but carbs -- and even then, it's more of a "nope, can't eat any of that" vs. "yup, can eat as much of that as I want".
> 
> Hunger is gone.
> 
> ...




Atkins worked for me ... twice.  Which was the problem, I guess, because once it "did its thing" I slowly started working carbs back into my diet.  Ultimately, it wasn't sustainable because it wasn't "hunger" that was driving my eating patterns.  Upping the exercise level was an important part of my success (the 1500 calories per day recommendation included 45 min of walking each day as well).  

I agree with that last statement -- coffee was the thing for me -- a big cup of coffee with some Splenda and a splash of creamer and my appetite is dead for a while.


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## Mystery Man (Jul 10, 2005)

Coffee/caffiene does the exact opposite for me unfortunately. :\


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## megamania (Jul 10, 2005)

I'm diebetic and over weight.  I work a minium of 65 hours a week and as of late I've been pushing 90 hour weeks.  It is hard to keep a balanced diet in those conditions.

Watch the carbs which is what the Atkins thing is (I think?).  So go easy on bread and pastas mainly. (gawd- there are days I could kill for a pizza!)

Exercise doesn't need to be a workout in the gym.  It can be walk to the post office or store.  Use the stairs instead of the elevator.  Walk for the sheer fun of it.  My wife and I were taking family walks in the spring.  This is good and as suggested already-  by doing with a partner / buddy you gain support and the will (peer pressure) to continue it.

I was over 270 pounds at the height of 5'11.  Now I'm about 235 and still hoping for 210.

Keep it up and stay on task.....


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## Justin (Jul 10, 2005)

Forget South Beach.  Forget Atkins.  Don't diet!  Make it a lifestyle change.  Learn how to
eat healthy, watch calories and exercise, both weights and cardio.  Talk with a Registered
Dietitian.  That helped me immensely!

Use http://www.fitday.com.  It's free.

This is precisely what I did three and a half years ago.  I lost about 50 pounds in 6 months,
dropped my cholesterol from 292 to 180 (it's under 160 now with a ratio of just under 2) and
I've never looked back.  Now, eating healthy is easier for me than eating junk and I can't
fathom filling my body with the kind of garbage I used to, living on Burger King and Wendy's.
Makes me ill just thinking about it.

Just seeing the changes in my body at the time got me even more motivated, a self-reinforcing cycle.

So, let me reiterate my main point: DON'T DIET, MAKE IT A LIFESTYLE CHANGE!  

Oh yeah, check out http://www.johnstonefitness.com.  If that can't get you motivated, I 
don't know what will.


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## Justin (Jul 10, 2005)

Btw, no offense to anyone here, but ignore all the low carb nonsense.  Your body must have
carbs, they are its primary source of energy.  Just avoid (or at least minimize) refine carbs:
white bread, sugars (cut out the soda, but some fruit each day is VERY GOOD) and all the
other junk most food manufacturers stick in to make up for a lack of taste and shelf life.


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## Nifft (Jul 10, 2005)

Justin said:
			
		

> Btw, no offense to anyone here, but ignore all the low carb nonsense.  Your body must have carbs, they are its primary source of energy.




As it turns out, my body does quite well without the carbs. 

Energy can also come from fat (efficently) or protein (not so great).

The prefered source of energy for a fat dude's body should be, of course, his own fat. Atkins makes this so, at least in my experience. 

But yeah, whatever works for you.

 -- N


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## Justin (Jul 10, 2005)

Nifft said:
			
		

> As it turns out, my body does quite well without the carbs.
> 
> Energy can also come from fat (efficently) or protein (not so great).
> 
> ...




That's why I said "primary" source of energy.  

And you're absolutely correct that you want the body to use stored fat for energy when trying to lose fat.  However, that does not mean that you should cut down carbs to absurdly low amounts.  Just have a net calorie deficit each day and you'll lose weight, but aim for 40-60% of your calories from carbs.  I generally aim for a 50/30/20% ratio of carbs/protein/fat in my diet (in calories, not grams), modifying that slightly depending on various factors and goals, but it works incredibly well.


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## megamania (Jul 10, 2005)

Really it's all about moderation.  BALANCE of food types, excercise and the proper mental outlook.

No one plan will work.  One will work for a while.  Then when you plateau (no improvement) it requires a new plan.

Consult your doctors and dietricians.  They have a better sence of what is required.


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## Brain (Jul 10, 2005)

Justin said:
			
		

> This is precisely what I did three and a half years ago.  I lost about 50 pounds in 6 months,
> dropped my cholesterol from 292 to 180 (it's under 160 now with a ratio of just under 2) and
> I've never looked back.  Now, eating healthy is easier for me than eating junk and I can't
> fathom filling my body with the kind of garbage I used to, living on Burger King and Wendy's.
> ...




I agree with Justin's point here.  A "diet" is something that ends, in the common vernacular.  Then when the diet ends, one goes back to their previous, and regains weight.  I recommend a lifestyle change that includes counting calories, a fairly balanced, low-fat diet, and becoming more active (excersize and just plain getting up and walking around).

I'll toss my success story in the ring as well.  I was 330 lbs. a year ago, now I'm 220 and feeling great.


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## Justin (Jul 10, 2005)

Brain said:
			
		

> I agree with Justin's point here. A "diet" is something that ends, in the common vernacular. Then when the diet ends, one goes back to their previous, and regains weight. I recommend a lifestyle change that includes counting calories, a fairly balanced, low-fat diet, and becoming more active (excersize and just plain getting up and walking around).
> 
> I'll toss my success story in the ring as well.  I was 330 lbs. a year ago, now I'm 220 and feeling great.




33% body weight loss is amazing.  Congratulations!

I would like to add one other tip that I wish I'd known when I first started. If you want to try to specifically lose fat and minimize lean mass loss, eat your maintenance calories and create the calorie deficit through moderate-level cardio. So if you need to eat 2500 calories to maintain your current weight, eat 2500 and exercise to burn more, thereby creating the deficit. You can use http://www.dietitian.com/ibw/ibw.html to calculate your maintenance calories.

Btw, if you didn't already know this, 3500 calories = 1 pound, so if you can burn, say, about 500 calories per day beyond your maintenance level, you'd lose a pound a week.

EDIT: Corrected the math.


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## Bront (Jul 10, 2005)

Justin said:
			
		

> Forget South Beach.  Forget Atkins.  Don't diet!  Make it a lifestyle change.  Learn how to
> eat healthy, watch calories and exercise, both weights and cardio.  Talk with a Registered
> Dietitian.  That helped me immensely!
> 
> So, let me reiterate my main point: DON'T DIET, MAKE IT A LIFESTYLE CHANGE!



South Beach is actualy an adjusted carb diet that's only initialy low carb (First 2 weeks) if done correctly.  After that, you work the better carbs back into your diet slowly so you find out which carbs work well in your diet.  And it is ultimately more of a lifestyle change if done right (Which is what I tried to do earlier).  When I say I fell off of it when I lost my job, I started regularly snacking on candy again and other bad things again as comfort food, wasn't walking as much (I walked 30 min plus a day to, from, and durring work), and was unable to afford to keep eating mostly leaner meats and better carbs all the time.

I liked the South Beach because I wasn't counting anything.  Durring the first 2 weeks (where I lost 25 pounds), I actualy increased my calorie intake a bit.  I just ate better things like nuts and chease instead of candy, and would order the salads at McDonnalds instead of chicken nuggets and fries.  Eventualy, to fill my sweet tooth, I found some sugar free candy that I used as the occasional desert (Russel Stover makes some great stuff).  I droped to diet soda (which I still drink almost exclusively).

As the diet went on, I found I needed to snack less. (There are 2 built in snacks in the diet) and my food intake slowly went down as I simply started to need to eat less food to be satisfied.  When I worked carbs back in, my diet became quite broad, but still avoiding regularly consuming the uglier fast food items on a regular basis.  I was a huge pizza fan and found I could still have it on occasion without screwing up my diet (usually cheese or spinach pizza, depending on if it was thin crust or stuffed, avoiding pan or deep dish for the more bready crusts).  Several people at work started the diet after me, and I was their hero for all the weight I lost.  So loosing that support group (And having my GF out of town for 2 weeks when it happened) didn't help either.

My big problem is eating at work.  I need to figure out things to either bring to work (I'm never good at that) or order from the few places open over night (There are some good salads and healthier alternitives out there, just need to look).  Stock up on penuts instead of chips or candy (Not the best, but better than the alternitives).  The biggest help was I had protine shakes I'd drink on the way to work instead of a breakfast, but those are expensive.

Thanks for the responses so far.  I appreciate the support


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## Nifft (Jul 10, 2005)

The way I understand the low-carb thing is that, given a traditional 1st world diet, your body has such a surplus of carbs that it no longer needs to digest fat to get energy. Your body stops producing the lipid-digesting enzymes it would need to convert fat into blood sugar (ATP etc.)

So, your body starts using hunger as its blood-sugar monitoring system. Whenever your blood sugar goes too low, you get the urge to snack.

This is inefficient -- it takes a little while for freshly eaten food to turn into blood sugar, and there's a good chance you will over-snack beyond what your body originally was "asking" for -- and any excess gets turned into fat you will never digest.

Atkins, and other low-carb diets, make you ravenously hungry for 2-3 days (up to a week I think) because your body stubbornly clings to the "hunger" method for blood-sugar regulation before giving up and making lipolyzing enzymes. Once lipolysis (digestion of fat) starts, your body has a ready supply on hand -- your own big fat butt! -- and it digs in with gusto. Hunger goes way down, because there's a steady supply of blood-sugar coming in, and you are better able to eat what you actually need.

There are probably lots of other ways to thin down, but if your body is no longer even looking at fat as a source of energy, low-carb can help jump-start that process. Doctors have urine tests that can tell you if you are producing lipid-digestion enzymes.

I'm sure it's possible to lose weight while staying hungry, but IMHO being hungry sucks, and I would not be a happy camper if I had to feel hungry all the time.

 -- N


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## Bront (Jul 10, 2005)

That's the point of the first 2 weeks of the South Beach diet, is to clean out and reset your system to work naturaly by processing your internal fat for energy.

It's also why you have 2 planned snacks, so you don't stay hungry all day, because hunger is the diet killer (Sounds like a Mentat saying)


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## Videssian (Jul 11, 2005)

Lots of good information has been posted above.  You also might want to try the CRON approach (Calorie Restriction with Optimal Nutrition).. lots of good info out there, but the key is why not gain some additional young years and avoid disease and all the rest of it along with your weight loss?  It's more hassle, does take more care.. but might also be worth said hassle.

I plan on starting that myself a week from now, ease into it, all that.. I may even do a blog like some others I read (such as http://www.mprize.org/blogs/ and http://www.crdiary.blogspot.com/ )

(also see http://www.calorierestriction.org/ )


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 11, 2005)

I'm currently on the Coffee, Crackers and single meal diet: Two cups of coffee for breakfast, two servings of crackers for lunch, and a lean cuisine and/or salad as dinner.


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## fusangite (Jul 11, 2005)

Justin said:
			
		

> Btw, no offense to anyone here, but ignore all the low carb nonsense.  Your body must have
> carbs, they are its primary source of energy.  Just avoid (or at least minimize) refine carbs:
> white bread, sugars (cut out the soda, but some fruit each day is VERY GOOD) and all the
> other junk most food manufacturers stick in to make up for a lack of taste and shelf life.



Justin, everyone's body is different. I went off the Atkins Diet in April and began running 4.5 miles a day 6 days a week. I ate only whole grains (brown rice, multigrain bread, and even whole wheat pasta which I despise). I gained 20 pounds. I've had to radically reduce my carb intake just to stop gaining weight. 

I'm glad the healthy lifestyle plus exercise thing was enough for you but for some of us, it still doesn't quite cut it. By the way, Atkins, like South Beach involves you gradually increasing your carb intake until your weight stabilizes.

But the main reason I recommended Atkins on this particular thread is that it stabilizes your blood sugar rapidly and keeps it stable and that's crucial if you're simultaneously battling depression.


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## Shemeska (Jul 11, 2005)

Nifft said:
			
		

> The way I understand the low-carb thing is that, given a traditional 1st world diet, your body has such a surplus of carbs that it no longer needs to digest fat to get energy. Your body stops producing the lipid-digesting enzymes it would need to convert fat into blood sugar (ATP etc.)




If anything a traditional 1st world diet has more fat and protein than say the average 3rd world diet.

Largely the 'science' behind low-carb diets is absolute BS. They may work, they may work well for some people, but they won't work for the reasons they might claim. Ultimately it's just having a net calorie deficit in your diet so you lose weight.

FWIW I'm a type 1 diabetic, thus prone to more weight gain, and I lost around 55 lbs in about 6 months, and have kept it off completely for around 7 years now. Moderate mix of pasta, low fat meats, and tons of vegetables. What you eat doesn't necessarily matter so long as you don't jack your cholesterol through the roof by only eating meat etc, and so long as you're not suffering from any vitamin deficiency or amino acid deficiency, it's just the calories that you're eating and that's the bottom line for any diet.

So, your body starts using hunger as its blood-sugar monitoring system. Whenever your blood sugar goes too low, you get the urge to snack.

This is inefficient -- it takes a little while for freshly eaten food to turn into blood sugar, and there's a good chance you will over-snack beyond what your body originally was "asking" for -- and any excess gets turned into fat you will never digest.

Atkins, and other low-carb diets, make you ravenously hungry for 2-3 days (up to a week I think) because your body stubbornly clings to the "hunger" method for blood-sugar regulation before giving up and making lipolyzing enzymes. Once lipolysis (digestion of fat) starts, your body has a ready supply on hand -- your own big fat butt! -- and it digs in with gusto. Hunger goes way down, because there's a steady supply of blood-sugar coming in, and you are better able to eat what you actually need.

There are probably lots of other ways to thin down, but if your body is no longer even looking at fat as a source of energy, low-carb can help jump-start that process. Doctors have urine tests that can tell you if you are producing lipid-digestion enzymes.

I'm sure it's possible to lose weight while staying hungry, but IMHO being hungry sucks, and I would not be a happy camper if I had to feel hungry all the time.

 -- N[/QUOTE]


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## Eolin (Jul 11, 2005)

Last time we did this I posted about lemons, yogurt and master cleansing.

And last time, I was fasting. Which I am now as well, as of today.

Grow in your awareness of what you eat and how it makes you feel. You'll stop eating the crappy foods. And then weight loss will follow as a result.


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## Nifft (Jul 11, 2005)

Shemeska said:
			
		

> If anything a traditional 1st world diet has more fat and protein than say the average 3rd world diet.




Sure, but think about it this way: if you give a child of 5 six brussel sprouts and one small candy, there is a decent chance that one or more sprouts will be eaten.

If you were to instead give the child a pound of candy and six pounds of sprouts, there is a good chance no sprouts will be eaten -- _even though there are more sprouts!!!_

Carbs are metabolized _preferentially_.

Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it. 

 -- N


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## Shemeska (Jul 11, 2005)

Nifft said:
			
		

> Carbs are metabolized _preferentially_.
> 
> Anyway, that's my story and I'm stickin' to it.
> 
> -- N




Eh. If you eat 2000 calories a day of pure sugar, and have a daily caloric need of 2000 calories, you'll stay the exact same weight. If you eat 1000 calories of pure sugar the next day, you'll lose a bit of weight. If on day 3 you eat 2000 calories of nothing but bacon grease you'll stay the exact same weight. Day 4 you eat a mix of sugar, fat and protein at 2000 calories total you'll also stay the same weight.

All that matters is total caloric intake. Sugars just happen to be metabolized faster, reaching the blood stream and hitting glycolysis in your cells quicker than that bacon grease might be broken down by secondary pathways. Not metabolized 'more', just metabolized faster. But ultimately 2000 calories of bacon grease = 2000 calories of sugar = 2000 calories of protein. Obviously a smaller amount of fat will produce the same number of calories as carbs or protein, just based on the caloric density per gram.

The only thing that a carb restricted diet will do better is appetite suppression, simply because fatty foods tend to make you feel more full compared to simpler carbs, etc. Type I and II diabetics might be better off on some model of this two, but it's very easy to screw up and double your cholesterol if you're not careful, which is why I wouldn't suggest Atkins to the majority of people.


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## Zander (Jul 11, 2005)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> I have been counting calories and exercising more over the past couple of months, and it's working. I walk at least 30 min a day, sometimes I do that twice, I add occasional light weightlifting in between and sometimes bike riding or hiking.



I've been calorie counting and exercising more and it's working for me too.  

I stay under 800 cals per day input, sometimes less than that. I've increased the amount of fruit in my diet and have eliminated all chocolate, icecream, cookies, pizza, beef and other high sugar, carb and fatty foods (unless they occur in a low calorie ready meal).

I walk 1 - 2 miles per weekday and on Sundays. On Saturdays, I walk 5+ miles, for a total of 14+ miles per week. I also do two hours of martial arts per week. In all, I spend about 1500 - 2000 cals per week exercising, that's equivalent to burning roughly 2+ days worth of food.

I have been on this programme since the end of May and have already gone from being officially obese to overweight. I hope to be in the normal category by mid September.


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## Impeesa (Jul 11, 2005)

To the original poster: before even worrying about counting carbs, check into your eating schedule. As you've mentioned, it's hard to keep a good schedule doing shiftwork - I know, I'm doing 12-hour shifts this summer (sets of 2-3 shifts with 2-3 days off in between, alternating days and nights). It'll take some extra effort, but try to make sure you're getting 3 real meals a day, and cut out any sort of snacking. Then, make sure those meals are a single 'regular person' size. 

If you're looking for a good form of exercise, try swimming. Take a little time to learn how to do it properly (easier said than done, I suppose - I swam competitively for a little over 9 years). Once you've got that, you can put in an hour or two about twice a week and burn off calories like nothing. It's the best low-impact full-body workout you can get.

Edit: Let's pick on Zander there. He does a fair bit of exercise, and keeps his intake down to 800 calories a day. He's had success losing weight. Contrast with pro swimmer Michael Phelps - he takes in 8000 calories a day (that's ten times as much, kids), and maintains an Olsen-twin build swimming ~6 miles a day. Granted, most of us don't have a spare 2-3 hours a day to spend exercising at the pool, but you get the idea.

--Impeesa--


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## Hijinks (Jul 11, 2005)

I don't think it's been mentioned, but if you drink lots of water, you'll feel fuller longer.  Crystal Light makes some tasty powders that you can mix with water for a 5-calorie-per-serving drink that still counts as water servings.  The red grapefruit is the best.


Also, I read in Fitness magazine a while back that unsalted, unbuttered popcorn is an excellent snack.  1 cup = approximately 100 calories, and only 5 carbs, no fat.  I might be misremembering the exacts there.  Now, I don't put salt on anything - I just enjoy the natural flavors of food - but most people I know salt their food, so most people probably wouldn't find unsalted, unbuttered popcorn pleasant tasting, but I enjoy it quite a bit, and it takes care of that late-night tv-watching craving.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 11, 2005)

I used SlimFast to help me lose my first "chunk of weight" - 15 lbs about 15 months ago.  Though I would prefer to drop about 15 more lbs, I've managed to maintain that weight loss.

SlimFast taught me a lot about how much I should be eatting in order to lose/maintain.  Upon realizing just how much I was eatting (especially for dinner!) I was able to really shift my portion sizes and feel pretty good about myself.


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## Justin (Jul 11, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Justin, everyone's body is different.




Of course.  However, the human body is built to operate in a particular way, within a range.
So while people's metabolisms and other medically specific needs (e.g. diabetes) will create
huge variations, most people function generally the same way.



> I went off the Atkins Diet in April and began running 4.5 miles a day 6 days a week. I ate only whole grains (brown rice, multigrain bread, and even whole wheat pasta which I despise). I gained 20 pounds. I've had to radically reduce my carb intake just to stop gaining weight.




Obviously I don't know the specifics of what and how you were eating, but foods like those
you mention are typically very calorie-dense.  If you were used to eating Atkins, heavy
fat-based foods, you likely got fuller faster.  Carbs are generally not filling (excepting high
fiber foods, and even then...), so it is much easier to splurge on carb calories.  Protein and
fat are much more satiating and low-carb/high-protein/high-fat diets usually lead to eating
less volume and therefore less calories.  [ I'm sure the above paragraph could have been
written more succinctly. :\ ]



> I'm glad the healthy lifestyle plus exercise thing was enough for you but for some of us, it still doesn't quite cut it. By the way, Atkins, like South Beach involves you gradually increasing your carb intake until your weight stabilizes.




My understanding of the diets is that SB is marginally better for you than Atkins because it
does allow for more carbs and is more balanced.  However, the fundamental problem I see
with Atkins specifically is that it forces the body to use its backup energy production
mechanism, lipolysis (fat-burning), exclusively.  Once you have a bit too many carbs (and
it doesn't take much), your body slams on the brakes and reverts to glycolysis (sugar-
burning).

Also, every gram of glycogen your body stores requires three grams of water to be stored
as well.  So while you're on a low-carb diet, you have basically depleted your glycogen
supply and thus don't need the extra water.  Once you go off it, your body will suck water
back in like a sponge and you will put on several pounds immediately.



> But the main reason I recommended Atkins on this particular thread is that it stabilizes your blood sugar rapidly and keeps it stable and that's crucial if you're simultaneously battling depression.




You're right there.  One of my best friends is an endocrinologist and she's told me that diets
like Atkins are good *in the short term* for diabetic and near-diabetic patients to
help their blood sugar level.  I didn't know about the depression, so thanks for the info.


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## Justin (Jul 11, 2005)

Zander said:
			
		

> I've been calorie counting and exercising more and it's working for me too.
> 
> I stay under 800 cals per day input, sometimes less than that. I've increased the amount of fruit in my diet and have eliminated all chocolate, icecream, cookies, pizza, beef and other high sugar, carb and fatty foods (unless they occur in a low calorie ready meal).
> 
> ...




Holy c**p, 800 calories?!  While the weight loss is commendable, such a low calorie intake 
can overall be harmful to your efforts.  If your body is not getting enough calories, it will go 
into starvation mode.

That being said, I wish you much luck in your efforts!


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## EricNoah (Jul 11, 2005)

Right after I stared doing a low-carb diet for the first time, I did a little additional research and learned that all "carbs" are not created equal.  And the same goes with fatty foods.  So I made a little chart for myself (helped me with meal prep and shopping) to show good carbs/bad carbs and good fats/bad fats.  Under good carbs I put fruit, beans, and whole grains; and under bad fats I put red meat and dairy.  Thus if I had a choice between eating an apple and eating a piece of cheese, I felt I should go for the apple even though it didn't strictly fit the "low carb" model.  

Nowadays with counting calories, I generally still cut out a lot of carbs because they aren't as satisfying given the number of calories, and I'll save some calories for a desert if my sweet tooth is active.  

If I'm hungry (as opposed to craving food when I'm not particularly hungry), fruit and veggies are very filling at a very reasonable calorie cost.  One tip is to have a bunch of veggies already cut up and ready to eat -- and then when you get the urge to eat them, presto, no work involved.  I typically have a green or red pepper cut up, some sliced mushrooms, some grape tomatoes, some broccoli, and some carrots ready most of the time.


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## Umbran (Jul 11, 2005)

A large part of the issue is sustainability.  In order to lose weight and keep it off, you must change your habits _permanently_.  Any diet that is difficult to maintain for the rest of yoru life is a poor choice as a long-term solution.

In finding a solution, you must consider medical, social, and psychological impact.  Atkins, for example, relies on a metabolic "hack", severely limits your food choices in social situations, and largely eliminates large classes of foods that have positive psychological impact from your diet.  None of these are good signs for someone trying to make a permanent life-change.

Long-term - exercise, eat a balanced diet with the right number of calories for your body size and activity level.  Everything else is either a pain in the neck for you, or your friends.


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## GlassJaw (Jul 11, 2005)

WATERJustin and Umbran have some great things to say in this thread.  Heed their words.



> Just avoid (or at least minimize) refine carbs:
> white bread, sugars (cut out the soda, but some fruit each day is VERY GOOD) and all the
> other junk most food manufacturers stick in to make up for a lack of taste and shelf life.




This is perhaps the best advice given in this thread so far.  Processes/refined sugars are some of the most difficult things for your body to break down.  Soda is probably the worst thing you can put in your body: it has a TON of sugar, caffeine, and it rots your teeth.  What a combo.

If you have a sweet tooth (like I do), look for some all-natural snacks in your supermarket.  I'm addicted to Odwalla bars and Stacy's cinnamom pita chips right now.  One of the problems with eating better is that it's not necessarily inexpensive.

As far as white bread/grains go, I always buy whole wheat.  Eat brown rice instead of white.  Limit your pasta intake, etc.

Portion size is also out of control in this country.  Fast food and other chain restaurants serve way too much food.  Don't eat unless you are hungry and try not to "stuff" yourself.  Eat smaller portions more often if you have to or get some low-fat/low-cal munchies between meals like carrots or the previously mentioned pita chips.

While I do watch what I eat, I also allow myself to eat the occasional candy bar or go to Taco Bell.  Otherwise I'd go insane.  The key though is exercise and balance.  Balance your food intake and exercising regularly are better than any "named" diet.

Now I'll save the best advice I can give for last:

WATER!!

Drink it.  Don't stop drinking it.  Drink as much of it as your body allow.  Seriously.  Water is the best thing you can put in your body.


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## Justin (Jul 11, 2005)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> While I do watch what I eat, I also allow myself to eat the occasional candy bar or go to Taco Bell.  Otherwise I'd go insane.  The key though is exercise and balance.  Balance your food intake and exercising regularly are better than any "named" diet.




GlassJaw makes some great points, but I'd like to *strongly* second the above point.  I
have long since gotten to the point where eating healthy is as habitual for me as breathing,
so I also know that I can indulge from time to time because I know that 1) my body can
handle, and in fact likes, the occasional jolt (not cola) and 2) after the occasional splurge
I'll fall right back into my normal habits and the junk I've consumed will be burned off within a
week at most, depending on the severity of the incident (or string of incidents, as holidays
are prone to creating).


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## Zander (Jul 13, 2005)

Justin said:
			
		

> Holy c**p, 800 calories?! While the weight loss is commendable, such a low calorie intake
> can overall be harmful to your efforts. If your body is not getting enough calories, it will go
> into starvation mode.
> 
> That being said, I wish you much luck in your efforts!



Thank you for wishing me luck.  

I really don't think that I'm in starvation mode or even close. The pounds are gradually coming off, pretty much at a steady and predictable rate, and I feel OK. If my body were reacting badly to the diet, my weight would be fluctuating and I probably wouldn't feel well.

I'm lucky that I don't feel hunger as most people do. I can skip meals without any ill effect. I've gone without food for 48+ hours before (not as part of this diet) and still didn't crave it or even desire it much. The mechanism that tells other people that they're hungry doesn't work well in me. It seems to be genetic: my father and one of my uncles are the same way.


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## The_Fan (Jul 13, 2005)

I've started a health and fitness class over the summer in an effort to get in shape (and a required credit). I'm taking a dual approach, increasing my calorie expenditure by hitting the gym and decreasing my intake by...well, primarily by not having the money to afford food.  

Our teacher has us using this website: www.fitday.com to keep track of our progress. I've already started to notice a change after just a week and a half.


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## The Edge (Jul 13, 2005)

Im actually technicly underwieght, just by a bit, but thats what the chart says. Its strange too, since I know I eat too much junk. Im not anorexic (sp?), Im perfectly content about my health/weight situation at the moment, but I might like to gain just that bit extra to get me where the chart thinks I should be. Anyone want to trade.   

I know the best way for this would be to eat loads carbohydrate rich foods like pasta or bread, but I cant eat enough, I get full too quick. I owe my wieght to both my metabolism and the fact that Im always moveing. Fidgeting is a great extra helper for useing up energy. I have the view that I may as well run home rather than walk since I can afford the energy, Its good for my heart/lungs etc, and its faster so I might as well. I prefer to stand and walk about at a bus stop because its more interesting than sitting down, why not. 

My only concern is that the amount of saturated fat and sugar I eat can still be a problem regardless of whether im burning a lot. high sugar levels even for a short while put strain on my pancreas (I think thats the organ Im thinking of) which can lead to diabieties. And to much saturated fat will attach to my arterys and once its there its very hard to get rid of it. Ive actually recently started trying to find alternative snacks with less sugar and sat fat. Its quite tricky since I much prefer a kitkat over a sandwhich, but malt loaf is one thats worked well. Except that I got greedy, just three hours ago I ate my entire loaf all in one break time, it was suposed to last me the next three days.  :\    

oops.


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## The_Fan (Jul 13, 2005)

I used to be like that when I was a teenager. Now that I'm 22, even though I'm still growing, my metabolism has seriously slowed down. As a result, I've creeped up from 180 to 200 over the past year.

You don't want to lose more than one or two lbs per week because it can kick your body into starvation mode and also because environmental toxins, preservatives, and other unsavory things accumulate in your fat cells. If you live an unhealthy lifestyle and then start dropping weight quickly, these toxins will put undue strain on your liver and kidneys.

I'd also recommend an exercise program for anyone who wants to change their diet (note: not go on a diet, change their diet). It can essentially double the effects of any such change, or minimalize the amount you have to change your lifestyle. To lose one lb in a week, you need to consume 500 calories less each day than you expend. You can reduce your intake by 500 calories, but that's a good-sized meal. That's also a half hour of strenuous exercise. A pretty big change for most people.

If, on the other hand, you increase your activity level while decreasing intake, you only have to go 250 calories in either direction. That's 20 minutes of moderate exercise and two cans of soda.


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## fusangite (Jul 13, 2005)

Those of you who have gone the counting calories route, how many calories does one burn in a 3-4.5 mile run, assuming one is doing 10 minute miles?


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jul 13, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Those of you who have gone the counting calories route, how many calories does one burn in a 3-4.5 mile run, assuming one is doing 10 minute miles?



 I'd check out the link that EricNoah provided earlier...

http://www.calorieking.com/tools/exercise_calories.php


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## JamesDJarvis (Jul 13, 2005)

Here is my miracle weight loss plan  (i went form 250 or so down to 197)   :

I stopped eating 4ths and 5ths.  I ate more greens, not an obsessicve amount just more.
I avoided drinking soda of any kind, even diet.  I avoided eating chips. 
A moderate amount of exercise and by moderate I mean the amount of exercise most folks would seriously consider light, if it starts to "burn" or sweating starts well then mission accomplished and enough exercise.


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## The_Fan (Jul 13, 2005)

fusangite said:
			
		

> Those of you who have gone the counting calories route, how many calories does one burn in a 3-4.5 mile run, assuming one is doing 10 minute miles?




It depends on your weight, gender, muscle mass, and other factors. It's a complicated formula, so most sites just simplify it. Weight is a primary factor though, so don't trust anything that doesn't take that into account.


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## tarchon (Jul 13, 2005)

I only eat foods made from lighter isotopes of the common elements, and I adhere to a high-helium diet. I feel great, and I'm often complimented for my healthy glow.


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## Umbran (Jul 14, 2005)

tarchon said:
			
		

> I feel great, and I'm often complimented for my healthy glow.




No, no - the _glow_ comes from the _unstable_ isotopes.  One good dose of U238, and you'll shed weight like it were water... of course, that's because cancer'll be eating you from the inside out, but you'll have a glow, even if it isn't really a healthy one


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## Impeesa (Jul 14, 2005)

Umbran said:
			
		

> No, no - the _glow_ comes from the _unstable_ isotopes.  One good dose of U238, and you'll shed weight like it were water... of course, that's because cancer'll be eating you from the inside out, but you'll have a glow, even if it isn't really a healthy one




As an added bonus, anyone close enough to see you shed pounds and Cherenkov radiation is already dead if they're not shielded somehow.  Okay, maybe that isn't a bonus.. depends how much you like your coworkers.

--Impeesa--


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## Boojum (Jul 16, 2005)

I've managed to drop from about 290 to 260 (I'm 6'6") over the last 6 months or so, and am still gradually losing more, with exercise, but no change in diet.  I used to never be able to discipline myself to exercise, and got bored and stopped after a few minutes, or tried it few times and then stopped getting around to it.  However, I managed to start up and actually keep going by combining exercise with games.  I basically use a stationary bike while playing video games (started out using a gameboy at the gym, and have since bought one to use at home rather than maintain a gym membership).  The time goes pretty quickly, and I don't have the reluctance to get started that I used to have (actually, I tend to look forward to it if I'm in the middle of a game I'm enjoying), so I've been able to pretty consistently do an hour a day.  I'm sure I could be losing weight faster if I altered my eating habits too, but I've been able to make consistent progress and keep eating the foods I enjoy, so I'm pretty happy about this system.


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## BlackSilver (Jul 17, 2005)

Depression will be your biggest enemy during the times you are trying to lose weight.  Keep telling yourself that depression wants you to fail.  Muscle will burn fat faster then dieting.

Get into a martial art- you might be able to find something cheap through your city services.  Also take a walk, use that to spend time with your family.  Watch movies and TV shows that make you laugh, it will help to defeat any depressed feelings.  Don't by snack foods (chips, cookies, cake, etc.), instead by healthy stuff.  Drink water, it helps to clean the sugar and toxins from your muscles.

Most of all be patient with yourself, it took years to get the weight on, it will take it to get it off.


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## JoeGKushner (Jul 18, 2005)

Diet alone will fail.

Diet and exercise must be made into a lifestyle change.

Exercise must consist of cardio to burn  calories off during an active period and weight lifting to build muscle. Muscle mass burns calories even while at rest.

As a side bonus, extreme exercise helps fight depression, but it has to be a high level from what I've read.


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