# Metamagic & Spell-Like Abilities



## saucercrab (Aug 29, 2005)

I know it's not normally feasible to combine the two, but there are some hinky monsters out there... there's at least one official creature that casts spells as if they are SPAs.

Is there a rule anywhere that directly states that metamagic feats cannot be used with SPAs? I've searched the core books & found nada. I also checked the other _MMs_ & _SS_ with the same result.


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## reveal (Aug 29, 2005)

Rules of the Game: All About Spell-Like Abilities



> A spell-like ability is not subject to metamagic. For many of the same reasons a spell-like ability cannot be countered, it also cannot be modified through metamagic in any way. Some creatures have special feats that allow them to duplicate the effects of metamagic on their spell-like abilities (such as the Quicken Spell-Like Ability feat). It's also possible for a creature to have a spell-like ability that duplicates spells already altered by metamagic. For example, the archmage prestige class allows a character to make a spell modified by metamagic into a spell-like ability.


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## Shariell (Aug 29, 2005)

there are reference in the various feats: in the metamagic feats the text is refered to SPELLS (not spell like abilities) and spell slots (spell like abilities use no slots).
In the metamagic feats for the spell like abilities, is clearly stated they are valid for spell like abilities.

So, any specified rules is redundant, since the feats itself explain how to use it.

Check monster manual 3.5, Monster manual 2, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of exalthed deeds for some feats to apply over spell like abilities.

ByE


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## reveal (Aug 29, 2005)

Shariell said:
			
		

> there are reference in the various feats: in the metamagic feats the text is refered to SPELLS (not spell like abilities) and spell slots (spell like abilities use no slots).
> In the metamagic feats for the spell like abilities, is clearly stated they are valid for spell like abilities.
> 
> So, any specified rules is redundant, since the feats itself explain how to use it.
> ...




Or he could read what I posted.


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## Thanee (Aug 29, 2005)

Shariell said:
			
		

> Check monster manual 3.5, Monster manual 2, Book of Vile Darkness, Book of exalthed deeds for some feats to apply over spell like abilities.




Complete Arcane, too.

Book of Vile Darkness (at least, probably also Monster Manual 2) is outdated and not useable in 3.5 (the meta-SLA feats, I mean).

Bye
Thanee


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## Li Shenron (Aug 29, 2005)

saucercrab said:
			
		

> I know it's not normally feasible to combine the two, but there are some hinky monsters out there... there's at least one official creature that casts spells as if they are SPAs.
> 
> Is there a rule anywhere that directly states that metamagic feats cannot be used with SPAs? I've searched the core books & found nada. I also checked the other _MMs_ & _SS_ with the same result.




Normal metamagic uses increased spell slots as a cost for metamagic feats benefits.

SLA never have slots, so how are you going to make the monster pay the cost?

You could allow on the house some of the following:
(1) allow mm feats with +0 cost to work on SLA
(2) allow instant mm feats to be used on SLA
(3) increase "casting" time of mm-ed SLA one round per +1

Ok the last one is not that good, but the first 2 should be fine...


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## saucercrab (Aug 29, 2005)

reveal,
Thanks for the link. I was so intent on the books that I forgot about the online material.

Shariell,
The feats for metamagic'ing SPAs are actually general feats, not metamagic ones. 

Thanee,
_CArc_ references this subject mostly in regards to invocations. I was looking for something more definitive & general.

Li Shenron,
Like I said, there is at least one official monster that casts its spells as if they were SPAs. That one is the phaerimm from FR. I'm trying to reconcile if its sorcerer spells are supposed to follow all the rules for SPAs. I am/was involved in a thread over on the Wizard's boards & other posters are/were of the opinion that a phaerimm follows all the rules for SPAs. Not being able to use metamagic feats would be a real downer for the evil windsocks...


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## Muaythaidaddy (Aug 29, 2005)

*Hhhhmmmm*

I guess that's why there are feats like "Quicken Spell-Like Ability" and "Maximize Spell-Like Ability"...........


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## Bad Paper (Aug 30, 2005)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Book of Vile Darkness (at least, probably also Monster Manual 2) is outdated and not useable in 3.5 (the meta-SLA feats, I mean).



MM2 has a conversion in that 3.5 update booklet 40-page pdf on the wizards site.  I think that means it's still good.  BoVD has basically disappeared (poor Monte), but that doesn't mean I don't still milk it for good stuff


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## saucercrab (Aug 30, 2005)

Muaythaidaddy said:
			
		

> I guess that's why there are feats like "Quicken Spell-Like Ability" and "Maximize Spell-Like Ability"...........



Yeah, I thought of that as well, but wanted to find  something regarding [not being able to use metamagic feats with SPAs].


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## Scharlata (Aug 30, 2005)

Muaythaidaddy said:
			
		

> I guess that's why there are feats like "Quicken Spell-Like Ability" and "Maximize Spell-Like Ability"...........




Hi!

Here it goes:

*Boost Spell-like Ability*; Prerq: -; Benefit: Increase save DC by 2 against your selected spell-like ability; BoVD, p. 47

*Consecrate Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Any good alignment; Benefit: Adds good descriptor to spell-like ability; BoED, p. 42

*Corrupt Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Any evil alignment; Benefit: Add the evil descriptor to one spell-like ability; BoVD, p. 48

*Empower Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Spell-like ability at caster level 6th; Benefit: Increase spell-like ability's variable, numeric effects by 50%; MM, p. 303

*Extend Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: ???; Benefit: ???; SS, p. ???*

*Heighten Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Spell-like ability at caster level 6th or higher; Benefit: Use spell-like ability at higher level up to 3/day; CA, p. 80

*Maximize Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Spell-like ability at caster level 6th or higher; Benefit: Maximize spell-like ability's variable numeric effects up to 3/day; CA, p. 81

*Purify Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Any good alignment; Benefit: Adds good descriptor to spell-like ability; neutral cr. take 1/2 and good cr. take no damage; BoED, p. 45

*Quicken Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Spell-like ability at caster level 10th; Benefit: Use one spell-like ability as a free action; MM, p. 304

*Violate Spell-like Ability*; Prereq: Any evil alignment; Benefit: Add evil descriptor to one spell-like ability, 1/2 damage is vile damage; BoVD, p. 50
* = should be in Savage Species

Enjoy!


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