# Off to War - canceled



## HolyMan (Jul 2, 2011)

Well it seems just like yesterday I was kicking off year 2 and here we are about to start year 3 - where does the time go?

For all the players past and present I wish to thank you for the great gaming that has been going (or has gone) on. For anyone still on the fence you should join us I hope the best is yet to come as we dive deeper into the why of the campaign and the players try and stop the the destruction of The Five Kingdoms by the roman like elves known as the Treylor.

I am hoping for some great character development on the way to fighting pitch battles against armies lead by elven spellcasters, monsters of renown, denizens of other planes, and one very old and very mean green dragon.

What is best in life?
_
"To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."_ - Conan

True. So what is second best in life?
_
"Great gaming with great friends on the internet's greatest pbp site."_ - HolyMan

Happy gaming to everyone and to my current roster of players please check in and let the gaming begin.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jul 2, 2011)

Link placeholder (And I feel there will be alot of them. _*sigh*_ )

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 2, 2011)

Checking in!  Let's get year three rolling!!!  Veskit is going down!!!


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## HolyMan (Jul 2, 2011)

Your ther one who brought him into this so I hope you are ready. But before you face the old dragon perhaps a warm up on one of his kids. 

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 2, 2011)

Child labor, cheap and effective.  I will be sure to see if I can fashion something from the remains of his kid.  Still thinking on going with the Dragon Disciple PrC, but it would be hard pressed to move away from straight Dragon Shaman...


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## Axel (Jul 2, 2011)

One not-particularly-effective Rogue, checking in.  

To continue the continuing conversation from year 2...no, having 1 of the 3 characters opt-out is not something Alden would propose.  That is my dastardly meta-gaming brain thinking.  Bad brain!!  For Alden's purposes, he's more than confident (when is he not confident?) that he could dress Alex up as a lady-boy if needs must, plust disguise himself.  Tio would make a passable meatbag warrior type...just have to cut his beard off.


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 2, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> What is best in life?
> _
> "To crush your enemies, see them driven before you, and to hear the lamentation of their women."_ - Conan




According to a different famous hero, it's actually this:
"Hot water... good dentistry... and soft lavatory paper." - Cohen the Barbarian, oldest adventuring professional hero on the DiscWorld. 

In any case, I'm obviously here in the new OOC thread.


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## jackslate45 (Jul 2, 2011)

Something funny and witty, without being too obnoxious.

Also, I am here now.

EDIT: isn't one of the rules of a con to always have someone not meet them?  that way, they can be whoever you need to be at the time.


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## Zerith (Jul 2, 2011)

HM, Alex dos not tend to have a black and white response to unknowns; he takes more then "is he the guy I'm after?" into consideration and I don't feel comfratable saying "he will do X" before I even know the situation much less making two such shots in the dark at once
it invites bazaar reactions.

that said his, intestinal, intent would be, in either case, to talk, he dos not have much to lose from doing so and he dos not know if he is dealing with something akin to a non cooperative informant, someone who is hiding from Treylor forces in the area, or if he is a Treylor spy. and he can't say that much better if the Half Elf is not the one he is looking for. :/


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## Herobizkit (Jul 2, 2011)

One of many bards to check in.  I thoroughly enjoy how paranoid [MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION] and [MENTION=93196]Axel[/MENTION] are, and will continue to participate in the the shenanigans.


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## ghostcat (Jul 2, 2011)

Mention "Baby Dragons" and Trinham will be wondering  how many roast dragon burgers he could get out of one. Mention an very old  mean green dragons and he will start looking for a hole he can pull in after himself.

Congratulations on a PBP game that's lasted two years. At three levels a year, only another 5 years to go.


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## jackslate45 (Jul 2, 2011)

6 years. Mal and Ern would like to get to 20 as well.


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## HolyMan (Jul 3, 2011)

Dragonwriter said:


> According to a different famous hero, it's actually this:
> "Hot water... good dentistry... and soft lavatory paper." - Cohen the Barbarian, oldest adventuring professional hero on the DiscWorld.
> 
> In any case, I'm obviously here in the new OOC thread.




All good things to have after you crush your enemies  Welcome to year three.



Herobizkit said:


> One of many bards to check in.  I thoroughly enjoy how paranoid  @Zerith  and  @Axel  are, and will continue to participate in the the shenanigans.




They are scared another hydra is around the corner. That reminds me what is next on the combat side for your little group let me think...



ghostcat said:


> Mention "Baby Dragons" and Trinham will be wondering  how many roast dragon burgers he could get out of one. Mention an very old  mean green dragons and he will start looking for a hole he can pull in after himself.
> 
> Congratulations on a PBP game that's lasted two years. At three levels a year, only another 5 years to go.




Thanks, I think the XP are a big part of what makes this work. And you best not fire up the grill for dragon burgers - as things could go wrong and then the DM will be serving up sorcerer steaks instead. 



jackslate45 said:


> 6 years. Mal and Ern would like to get to 20 as well.




I hope to see everyone get to play their characters to 15th lvl and beyond. 

OK holiday so tomorrow I might advance as MON will be tough on me time wise. 

HM


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## Herobizkit (Jul 5, 2011)

Lol.  I'm level 1.


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## Axel (Jul 5, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> Lol. I'm level 1.




And you'll stay there unless you post some RP threads damnit!!  Just make stuff up - I do all the time and haven't been booted out yet (latest example: inventing a second pub called the Duck Inn).  HM is fantastic at "rolling with it".

If you/Tio don't officially know what the half-elf's house is like then just invent something like he lives in a tree house....or an old mine....or The Shrieking Shack from Harry Potter.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 5, 2011)

That's actually good advice.  As a player, I know next to nothing about anything HM is talking about.


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## Axel (Jul 5, 2011)

Happy to help.  As far as I can tell, OTW is a collaborative story telling effort between the players and the DM.  It's a lot less "the DM has a story so stick to it" than many RL games I've played.  I like it!


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## HolyMan (Jul 5, 2011)

All true and now Rem has a tower in it that has the oddest effect on people's memory. 

It is ok to make up a little fluff here and there. It is a good way to feel like part of the story and as long as you don't write in you found yourself a +2 elf-bane sword or anything similar I will roll with it and better keep the story moving. 

Note to K2V  players - you too can post up something about the circle "prison room" you are all in. Just think of it as a medieval penthouse. There will be a room for each of you to use as your own with a comfortable bed, and the accessories. Windows are tall and then and there is only one locked door.

Something to work with. 

Updates tomorrow not staying on to long tonight sorry.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 5, 2011)

Can I assume the windows can be opened?  And that they 'think' that due to the height and sheer walls to the windows, there is no escape?  C'mon, this could be amusing, since Mal can climb without need of spell component pouch


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## jackslate45 (Jul 5, 2011)

we also have feather fall available. So we can defiantly get out. It becomes more of a question of should we. As soon as we jailbreak, the Wardens will have kill on sight orders. 

Although Ern now have access to summons again, so she is somewhat combative.


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## HolyMan (Jul 7, 2011)

Well Tharivol surely isn't likely to leave but you all should bring these things up IC as well.

HM


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## Megan Voss (Jul 9, 2011)

Where do I sign up!  I'd like to join your adventure.

I'm Meg and I'm kinda new to Dnd.  I played a human girl paladin my last game with friends.  She was like, Level 5.  I'd like to do that again if I could.  I can probably play until December, but maybe longer.  It's hard to say right now.  Thanks everybody.

HolyMan I've read some of your posts and they are very clever.  I like you already.


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## HolyMan (Jul 9, 2011)

Welcome aboard Megan Voss - please call me HM.

Thanks for the compliment I take weeks trying to think them up  Glad to see the hard work is as entertaining as I was hoping they were.

A female paladin - hmm... easy enough to fit you into the To Con the Con-man (and they could use a martial type - for future adventures) game. Please give me a background when you have the time and I will work you in.

HM


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## Megan Voss (Jul 10, 2011)

Thank you for such a worthy reply.  I'll do my best to write up a background.

*Background:*

Hera was born the daughter to a hardworking landowner.  Born with a cosmetic scar across her back and right leg, she was quickly shunned by her loveless mother as a child of 'bad luck' and a 'undesirable heir'.  At a desperately young age she was given to a local Chantry to serve as a temple maiden.  She grew in age as well as in her duties within the church.  Sadly, Hera grew distant from her biological family, blaming them for abadonment and sadness as a child.  This agrivated perspective on life quickly grew into a pious vengence for evil-doer's everywhere.  And it brought with it a clash of adolesent emotions as well.  Emotions ranging from anger to discontent, and even a lust for battle.  The church attemptied to curb her desires for adventure by fostering an environment of charity.  Letting her roam free of the local district to do acts of good abroad.  This lead to great embarressment as Hera quickly sought out sword-trainers, armor-smiths, and dangerous questing oppurtunites.  Eager to cast off this growing embarressment from the Church, Hera was encouraged to leave early and pursue the life of a self-made Paladin.  Like her parents before her, the Church deemed this scarred girl, 'A beautiful charm of bad luck'.  Armed with the dwindling support of the Church, the blooming love of her God, and a brooding hatred for her heritage,  Hera seeks a life elsewhere.

Hera would be in her late-twenties when she approached the party.


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## HolyMan (Jul 11, 2011)

I am having connect card issues so have not been able to get online for the past couple days. Am heading to get it resolved after work (clocking in in 10 min.) - wish me luck and even if I don't get things resolved updates will be done at Borders. 

- Will pencil Hera in, just need a description (eye, hair color, and such) for her in the RG to start, crunch can come later.

HM


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## Megan Voss (Jul 11, 2011)

I will attempt to make an appropriate entry in the Rogue Gallery.  Thank you HM.  Best wishes on getting your hardware resolved.

And thanks guys for the lovely comments.  I know your characters are just as much fun as Hera is going to be.  I look forward to meeting you soon.

(Edit:  I was gonna be a sword/board paladin but my boyfriend convinced me of the usefulness of PowerAttack and Impv OverRun feats.  Besides Smiting is more fun with a greatsword.  Lol.)


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## HolyMan (Jul 12, 2011)

Problems resolved (fingers crossed). I took a look in the RG and see you didn't use the swaping rules - not that you have to - did you not wish to tailor the PC?

Biggest thing for martial types and the swap rules is things like Heavy armor prof. Not something you need at low levels or at all if you decide to be a more mobile type warrior. I use to - when I had an RL group - allow for players to swap out the heavy armor prof. for another feat and then they would take it as their lvl 3 feat or not depending on the direction they wished to go.

Up to you as it is your character just want to make sire you know all the options available to you. If you are never going to use a shield maybe a swap out for Dodge (if you have the pre req) or something else would be useful.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 12, 2011)

Maybe even replace Heavy Armor Proficiency with something like... let's say... Favored Enemy, Hydra?  Just sayin... 

Welcome aboard!  Fresh meat for the grinder!   Hopefully the new character can stay around for longer than the year you stated.  Fingers crossed!!!


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## Megan Voss (Jul 12, 2011)

Thank you for the wonderful idea HM.  I plan on using Heavy Armor as soon as possilbe, so it shouldn't be a problem.  Low AC shouldn't be a problem either, since I plan on smacking the enemies around just as much.  Hehe.

Lol Fangor.  I'm sure I would love to stay and play but, as we all know, RL can be spontaneous at times.  I just hope to contribute something small to your already epic game.  Lol.


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## jackslate45 (Jul 13, 2011)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Maybe even replace Heavy Armor Proficiency with something like... let's say... Favored Enemy, Hydra?  Just sayin...



My vote goes to Favored Enemy Dragon...


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 13, 2011)

HM, mind telling me what Elven Translator you use? I think I found one that seems to match up with what you've given (this one), but I'd like confirmation. 

BTW, welcome Megan.


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## HolyMan (Jul 13, 2011)

That's the one. Your elvish is very good btw. 

HM


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## Zerith (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm addicted to LoL

In other news, she might have interesting interactions with Alexander XD

Also, holy crap, she is 6'5"
This puts her healthy weight at 160-211 pounds, 185.5 average
(73-96 kgs, 84.1 average)

Random tidbits ya know ;3


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## Megan Voss (Jul 14, 2011)

Naughty naughty.  It's not polite to comment on a ladies body Zerith.  ...  But yes.  Hera can be rather intimidating.  Which is fun too.


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## Axel (Jul 14, 2011)

Ha!  What I find amusing is that the entire party has likely missed the 6'5" Paladin with a greatsword hiding behind a tree!  Some adventurers we are...  

Also:  Anyone with a personality is likely to have "interesting interactions" with Alexander.  Particularly if said person is taller than the character.  Double so if he's a she (I can't see Alexander being anything other than a chauvanist...but he's not my character).

In a semi-related query, at what point is it considered "acceptable" to either backstab or pick-pocket fellow party members?


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## Zerith (Jul 14, 2011)

I'm not shocked that she can go unnoticed, I mean Alexander is about to go off: I think Alden dos not known just how much he has blundered in Alex's eyes


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## Herobizkit (Jul 14, 2011)

Tio grew up around opulence and fast talkers... Tio's turn-ons include Strength and a take-charge attitude. 

Good luck, Hera... you may have earned yourself a fanboi. *lol*


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## Axel (Jul 14, 2011)

Zerith said:


> I'm not shocked that she can go unnoticed, I mean Alexander is about to go off: I think Alden dos not known just how much he has blundered in Alex's eyes




Well then enough wasting time in the OOC thread!  I've been waiting for our IC post for nearly a whole day now...what are you waiting for?!


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## jackslate45 (Jul 14, 2011)

on an old topic, paladin being intimidating?  wait what?


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## Zerith (Jul 14, 2011)

edited in the post, and yeah, Alexander still loves the sound of his own voice; and if you ask me, he did have a good reason to be annoyed at Alden 

Also, I don't think she will be able to intimidate Alex by simply being large, gnolls are larger and they don't scree him, for that matter, neither do Iron golems who okay the orders of a paranoid lunatic. :/

...but yesh, he is not amused ^^;


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## Megan Voss (Jul 14, 2011)

Sorry about Hera not hiding.  I wanted to jump right in.  Plus, hiding is for sneaky peoples.  Not 'Giantesses'.  Lol.  Roarrr!

Convinced or not, she'll be tagging along.  After all, what 'Diplomacy' really means is 'Being Bossy'.  And Hera is gonna cap that skill.  ...But don't worry Zerith.  Your char can still be the chatty one.   

.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 14, 2011)

How is it that we have a party with THREE Cha-based characters?  This would never happen in real life.


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## jackslate45 (Jul 14, 2011)

Can we borrow one?  I think we need to do some tough Diplomacy rolls un K2V. 

I think having 3 would actually help, given that if someone screws up, you have at least a way to cover it.


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## Megan Voss (Jul 15, 2011)

Zerith, perhaps I should say:  Your character may continue to remain the chatty one, As long as Alexander doesn't speak to Hera.  Lol.

Yes.  That's a nice clause.  I'll just add that into our character's social agreement _Adventuring Contract_.  "Respect is a word that begins with silence."

It shouldn't be a problem really.  As I have already witnesses Alexander's gifted ability to communicate with his facial expressions.  Devils grin included you naughty boy.  _*wink*_


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## Zerith (Jul 15, 2011)

Alexander is Int based, his Chimera is an after thought next to it 
For that matter only Alden has a Cha over 14 :/

Also, Alexander is a Diplo powerhouse, +15 at level 2! XD
I honestly don't think any character will be able to challenge him at it in the long run :3 (he could have had 17 Diblo if he was Cha based ^_^)

That said, Alexander is good at getting people to talk when he wants them to; for the time being he wants Hera to do so, and Alexander is only going to anger Hera more as she gets to know him I should think.


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## Axel (Jul 15, 2011)

I'd add that Alden is the only "normal" person in the group, which is why NPCs (often "normal people themselves) will respond better to him    The rest of you giant-sized noble-born freakos can go play amongst yourself while Alden talks to all the other people.

Incidentally, Zerith, your reliance on, and pimping of, Diplomacy indicates this is one of your first D&D games.  Am I right?  Diplomacy only ever works on NPCs that don't really matter...trying to use Diplomacy on an "evil villain" (via "good-guy" monologue at the finale??) will net you a minimum-20 circumstance bonus from any DM.  Besides which, the words you choose to put through your character's mouth will (should?) always carry more weight than a d20.  

Bluff, on the other hand, now that skill is worth having.  You can say nearly any old outrageous thing (such as "I killed 4 gnolls in melee") and get away with it.  IF the d20 agrees with you.  That's my $0.02 on interaction skills anyway.


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## Megan Voss (Jul 15, 2011)

Zerith, I guess we'll just have to become good friends then.  Because our characters might not ever be.  Haha.  JK.  Very entertaining.  I expect many *eyerolls* and *facepalms* in the future.

Axel, to comment, I would hope all skills might find some use in any game.  But yes, many have more utility than others.  However, I do look forward to skill games with glee.  Whatever the skill being used.  Sometimes losing is just as much fun as winning.  I once lost a game of Magic Cards in a 3.5 game.  In one hand I managed to: Gain a level, had my alignment changed, gained a fox tail, and my sword began reciting poetry.  Very strange, very fun.

And I do look forward to the continued party interaction amongst the group.  I firmly believe that leaders are Made, not Born.  Especially if born by stats.  Remember, actions speak louder than words.  Which is why _this_ adventuring party is gonna be a World Leader in no time!  Those elves will never know what hit them.  Lol.


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## Zerith (Jul 15, 2011)

Alexander would agree there, but remember, all Hera has don so far is shell out words, hardly enough to make Alexander just accept her  and I r sleepy now, I'll read Axel's post when I get up and finish mine at the same time ;3


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## Herobizkit (Jul 16, 2011)

I was merchant-born, not noble-born... and although I'm a member in good standing of the Velvet Proctor's "flock", I'm not a priest.  And note how I snub people who try to boss people around based on their noble birth...


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## HolyMan (Jul 16, 2011)

*Experience July 1st - July 15th*


```
Player                                   XP
Axel                                    180
Megan Voss                               45
Zerith                                  120
Herobizkit                               70
Fangor the Fierce                       240
ghostcat                                600
jackslate45                             270
Dragonwriter                            475
```


Sorry this is late but had problems with EnWorld last night (had me worried it was my connection again). 

No time to update as I am off to work but will tonight - EnWorld willing.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jul 16, 2011)

Going over Hera... corrections/suggestions in *red
*
[sblock=Hera]

```
Name: Hera
Class: Paladin
Race: Human
Size: M
Gender: F
Alignment: LG
Deity: LG - [COLOR=Red]you added a church name IC yo could add that here 
                or in a notes block[/COLOR]

Str: 16 +3 (10p.)      Level: 1             HP: 12 (1d10+2)
Dex: 13 +1 (05p.)         XP: -            ACP: -1
Con: 14 +2 (06p.)        BAB: +1       Dmg Red: 0/0
Int: 10 +0 (02p.)    Grapple: +4     Spell Res: 0
Wis: 14 +2 (06p.)      Speed: 30'   Spell Save: -
Cha: 14 +2 (06p.)       Init: +5    Spell Fail: 15% [COLOR=Red]not applicable[/COLOR]

         Base Armor Shld Dex DB  Nat Misc Total
Armor:    10   +3    +0   +1 +0  +0   +0   14
Touch: 11  Flatfooted: 13

           Base Mod Misc Total
Fort:       2   +2        +4
Ref:        0   +1        +1
Will:       0   +2        +2

Weapon             Attack  Damage  Critical
Greatsword           +4    2d6+4    19/x2


Languages: Common

Special: Aura, Detect Evil, Smite [COLOR=Red](1/day)[/COLOR],
Feats: Impv Initiative, Power Attack, Athletic,[COLOR=Red] should add paladin weapon
 and armor prof here as you are able to swap them, just need to know what 
you keep/have
[/COLOR]
Skill Points: 16 [COLOR=Red](have skill points at 12 [2+0 x4]+4) [/COLOR]
Max Ranks: 4/2

Skills         Ranks  Mod Misc  ACP Total
Diplo            4    +2   +0   -0   +6
Swim             4    +3   +2   -2   +7
Climb            4    +3   +2   -1   +8
Jump             4    +3   +0   -1   +6

[COLOR=Red]Swim, Climb, and Jump are cross-classed skills max rank is 2 
And I added the ACP line
[/COLOR]
Equipment: 
Item                           Cost    Weight
Studded Leather                25gp     20lb
Greatsword                     50gp      8lb
Backpack                        2gp      2lb
Bedroll                         1sp      5lb
Waterskin                       1gp      4lb
x2 Beltpouch                    2gp      1lb
Travelers clothes              free      0lb


Money: 69gp 9sp 0cp       Total Weight: 40lb 

              Lgt Med  Hvy  Lift Push
Max Weight:   76  153  230  230  460

Description:
Age: late 20's
Height: about 2 meters
Weight: -
Eyes: brown
Hair: brown
Skin: white
```
[/sblock]Also could you add the background from here to the character sheet, thanks in advance.

HM


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## Megan Voss (Jul 16, 2011)

Fixes applied.  Thank you HM.   

And sorry Zerith.  But I'm going to have Hera ignore Alexander this time.  She, and obviously a few others, cannot abid his vain and prideful tongue.  Your careful questions must seek their answers elsewhere.  Perhaps in the future her true alliegence will surface in the form of action and character.  Until then, even the grandest of words will not suffice the unbeliever who seekth after signs.  For even the brightest truth among friends is seen as the darkest lie among strangers.  lol.  *wink*


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## Herobizkit (Jul 17, 2011)

This is another toughie.

I'm finding myself liking my character, the setting is great, and the other players are very invested in their dialogue and narrative.  Myself, not so much.  It's making me dread trying to post in here, and I don't want to ruin a good thing.

I don't know how to fix it.  An "attaboy, keep at it" isn't going to do it.  

Thoughts, input please?


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 17, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> This is another toughie.
> 
> I'm finding myself liking my character, the setting is great, and the other players are very invested in their dialogue and narrative.  Myself, not so much.  It's making me dread trying to post in here, and I don't want to ruin a good thing.
> 
> ...




Could you be a little more specific? You say you aren't invested, right after saying you like your character and the setting. Seems a little contradictory to me, unless there's something you _aren't_ saying.

Is it also possible this may just be a phase? 
I know after a while of playing Jareth (particularly after about a year, when he was still really angry at everything), I was getting a little tired of him. Then stuff happened to change his outlook quite a bit and I was engaged with playing him again.


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## Herobizkit (Jul 17, 2011)

More specifically, I am daunted to try and write as creatively and as lengthy as the others.  We added a new party member and that player is just as verbose and obsequious as Alexander's player.

I just get a sinking feeling when I have to try and come up with new stuff to say; it's specifically the issue with taking the time to write a good post versus a fast one.


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 17, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> More specifically, I am daunted to try and write as creatively and as lengthy as the others.  We added a new party member and that player is just as verbose and obsequious as Alexander's player.




So don't try to write like them. Personally, I don't care for long posts that say nothing. If you really want to have your character ponder on the color of the sky, then waffle between deciding whether the clouds are more grey or white, I'm not going to waste my time reading it.

You can be perfectly creative without writing like Dickens.
[sblock=Short side-rant on Dickens]
Seriously, the man could not write a simple sentence or get to the damn point! He took an entire paragraph to debate why a door-nail is the most-dead of all nails, instead of a coffin-nail being the most-dead... Needless to say, I do not find A Christmas Carol to be an enjoyable read. 
[/sblock]

Verbosity and quality of speech do not go hand in hand. I suggest you play your character as you enjoy and as you envision. 
Look at Trinham/ghostcat, for instance. The last month, while all sorts of discussion and politicking is going on in K2V, he's kept pretty quiet IC while everyone else handles the talking. Yet he receives a pretty good sum of XP because he is keeping true to the character of the inexperienced, unsure soldier-kid. I don't think a single post of his this month has broken 100 words, but he's sticking with the character's style and receives good XP for it (the breaks with his familiar probably help ).



> I just get a sinking feeling when I have to try and come up with new stuff to say; it's specifically the issue with taking the time to write a good post versus a fast one.




Time can always crop up as an issue... There's really no avoiding that one. It might be best to set aside a small block of time here and there to handle your posts.


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## Axel (Jul 18, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> More specifically, I am daunted to try and write as creatively and as lengthy as the others.  We added a new party member and that player is just as verbose and obsequious as Alexander's player.
> 
> I just get a sinking feeling when I have to try and come up with new stuff to say; it's specifically the issue with taking the time to write a good post versus a fast one.




Please don't feel daunted on my account.  Verbosity and length is one thing, but content is entirely separate.  I like Tio's input to date.  It is short, direct and lacking the layers of  that Alexander (and now Hera?) put on top.  Exactly like he was negotiating to buy a pound of bananas at the market.  

It took me a month or two to find Alden's "voice" and possible/likely responses to stimuli.  It's the same with RL characters too...takes awhile to get into your stride with them.  

Time can be/often is an issue.  I get around this by reading the posts in the morning (before work, normally) and then writing out my post later (lunch break perhaps).  It gives me time to think of a central point that I am going to make, and some general trends for actions and dialogue.  This is my first PbP game, and learning the discipline for "good" posting is hard...


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## Megan Voss (Jul 18, 2011)

Herobizkit, I think your posts are great and that your character is fun.  Because it is Your character.  You can make it whatever you want.  This is your power.

As far as lengthy writing.  Don't do it.  The less their is to the read, the better.  Hera is new so I'm being very discriptive and writing alot.  It's the only way I know to take a 'Character Sheet' and make it into a 'Character of Depth'.

If you want to learn how to make long posts, then here are some ideas:

...

*Setting and Atomsphere:* 
Include the feeling and depth of the setting and descriptive traits of your surroundings.  Use all five senses and expound upon them.

*Internal, External, and Verbal Communication:* 
Include what your character is thinking, gesturing, and saying.

*Beyond the Box:* 
Include things that are not implied in the DM's journey or quest.  Small things like, passing memories, momentary distractions, names of places you'll never go, animals by the roadside, and maybe architexture or design of local buildings.

*Perspective determines Reality:* 
Your character is how you percieve the DM's world.  It is a window by which you look out and observe the fantasy around you.  Thus, be aware that Bias or Assumptions can -- and will -- change the adventure for you.  Example:  ...A Wizard will see Cause and Effect through the window of intillectual thought.  ...A Warrior will see Cause and Effect through the window of tactics and warfare.  ...A Paladin will see Cause and Effect through the window of their God and religion.  These are all Bias.  And Bias will affect the way you post and what your character "Percieves to be Reality".  Conclusion:  Don't include the world as it is.  Include the world as your character sees it.

...

These are just a few ideas.  Use them or don't.  We are here to have fun, not become the author's of a literary novel.  You are not required to make anybody happy either.  Your writing does not have to please anybody but yourself.  Herobizkit, I like you just the way you are.  Because you  are Awesome!!!


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 20, 2011)

Wow HM, I think there might be just a single square inch of rug still under Jareth's feet. Feel like yanking the rest of it away? 

Keep up with these revelations destroying his point of view and he'll just end up a nervous wreck, gibbering in the corner. 

And to Herobizkit: I read through my post and realized my tone could have come off as harsh or dismissive. I'd like to assure you that wasn't my intent, if you saw it that way.

I definitely agree with Axel - Tio is refreshingly direct in Con Man. Please, keep that! It'll getting way too full of circle-speak without you!


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## HolyMan (Jul 20, 2011)

Think about it from my point of view, I have been sitting on this since SunKing made Tira how many months ago. 

The rest of the carpet is due to be pulled, just not by words.  (Why do you think I gave the equipment back).

HM


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## jackslate45 (Jul 21, 2011)

i had a funny feeling about that. Now i have to find which spells I memorized way back when...


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## HolyMan (Jul 21, 2011)

I found them here in case you didn't. 

The plot thickens and I hope all will be revealed soon K2V is almost over. 

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 21, 2011)

HM said:
			
		

> Elder Dorimir sits atop a great beast with the heads of a goat, a loin, and a black dragon.





A Loin? Hilarious!!!  Ok, now that I am done laughing, time to try to survive this new encounter.


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## HolyMan (Jul 21, 2011)

Opps I guess that didn't show up in my spell check as it is a word LOL. 

I should have said a lion how likes his Dragon Shaman loins rare. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Jul 23, 2011)

Made reflex saves and edited the status of the monster and wizard in my last post Jareth is up then the chimera.

TCtCM - Updated.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 23, 2011)

Interesting!!  Mage is deadish and chimera is left.  Looks like meat is for dinner!  Trinham can start grilling up some burgers!


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 23, 2011)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Interesting!!  Mage is deadish and chimera is left.  Looks like meat is for dinner!  Trinham can start grilling up some burgers!




Deadish, depending on if we want to/should take him prisoner. Vigor can extend to anyone you want, after all. 

Chimera... will probably give us a nasty run for our money (+12 for 2d6+4, 1d8+4 and another 1d8+4, then claws). But another Fireball, then maybe my Uber-shot (Quick True Strike + Power Attack + Shocking Grasp) or a Touch of Idiocy or two... Those should take care of it.


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## jackslate45 (Jul 23, 2011)

I was considering glitterdust, if only to blind it for 3 rounds. else summon a sacrificial dog or wolf.


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 23, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> I was considering glitterdust, if only to blind it for 3 rounds. else summon a sacrificial dog or wolf.




Assuming it fails the Will save, 3 rounds is probably all we'll need.

It'll be nice not to be in the same combat for a month, for once.


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## Axel (Jul 27, 2011)

Dragonwriter said:


> It'll be nice not to be in the same combat for a month, for once.




Enjoy it...  We're going to be stuck in one for 2+ months in TCtCM, fighting a couple of mephits.  Without a big dumb fighter and without a blaster mage we can't do anything to enemies over about AC15...


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## HolyMan (Jul 27, 2011)

That's the player thinking and not the character. From Alden's point of view the things came out of the devise so... 

HM


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## Axel (Jul 27, 2011)

I thought that's why there were separate IC and OOC threads?  In here I can be just "me, myself and I".  In there, I have to be "him".

I may have misread your post about where the second Mephit came from.  It read to me that the first Mephit "created" the second, hence why Alden went after the first one (reactionary thought caused by Wis 10...).  If I should have read it that it appears the device "created" the second Mephit then he should have tried to smash the rings...  

It seems you're right on re-reading...  

Never mind...we're onto round 2 and I can smash them now.  Yay...smashing stuff with a short sword...


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## Zerith (Jul 27, 2011)

[FONT=&quot]Dust mephitis speak Auran, as dose Alexander; steam ones speak Ignan and Alexander does not. This said steam requires heat, smoke does not need it per say to remain as smoke so in my book they’re more aligned to Air, butthen agin, it’s your call 

Anyways, I'm wondering if Alexander could understand what was said?[/FONT]


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## HolyMan (Jul 27, 2011)

Sorry not really I'm sure there is some sort of mephit root language it just isn't necessary to know what is said exactly. That is why the description and the <action in grey> you should get the point of what was said no need for the actual.

HM


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 27, 2011)

Axel said:


> Enjoy it...  We're going to be stuck in one for 2+ months in TCtCM, fighting a couple of mephits.  Without a big dumb fighter and without a blaster mage we can't do anything to enemies over about AC15...




A fair part of it is I built Jareth to be a destroyer. Against a single enemy, he can very well be devastating (my Uber-shot, as described above, has an average damage of 39, hits everything AC 25 and below, plus a Trip and the free attack from that). Against a group, he can be highly mobile and deliver strong hits and Trips. (And Trinham got off a couple Fireballs, causing a good bit of damage. And it got blinded.)

Then there's the fact that you folks are still much lower-level. It's funny how the game starts with "can I hit it with this roll?" and becomes "Auto-hit, auto-hit, auto-miss." I think the _absolute best_ chance of hitting as a level 1 character is a raging Half-Orc Barbarian with 18 STR (before racial +2 and Rage) and Weapon Focus. When raging, it's a grand +9. So he'd still miss 1/4 of his attacks against your mephits, statistically speaking. And we all know how dice rollers like to toss player-beneficial statistics out a window.


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## jackslate45 (Jul 27, 2011)

Axel said:


> Enjoy it...  We're going to be stuck in one for 2+ months in TCtCM, fighting a couple of mephits.  Without a big dumb fighter and without a blaster mage we can't do anything to enemies over about AC15...



But you have big Strong Paladin?


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## Zerith (Jul 28, 2011)

ack, missed HM's post, and now made/edited the post ^_^;


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## Megan Voss (Jul 28, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> But you have big Strong Paladin?




Who's power attacking the hell out of the air.  _*whif*  *whif*  *whif*_

If I were a wizard I'd be the equivalent of: 'casting Magic Missile at the darkness'.  

But since I'm a Paladin I have to:  'Power attack the air in the creatures space, okay, now roll the miss chance to hit the creature instead, 25% Chance, ...you miss the air and hit the creature instead, roll damage to the creature, congrats you just killed the monster and graduated with a degree in Improvisational Statistical Analysis.'


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## Axel (Jul 29, 2011)

Megan Voss said:


> But since I'm a Paladin I have to: 'Power attack the air in the creatures space, okay, now roll the miss chance to hit the creature instead, 25% Chance, ...you miss the air and hit the creature instead, roll damage to the creature, congrats you just killed the monster and *probably* graduated with a degree in Improvisational Statistical Analysis.'




Corrected for you.  

HM:  Given that it will statistically take Alden 60 rounds to smash the rings if he doesn't have to roll to hit, what're your thoughts on using Disable Device (improvised tool: sword) on it?


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## Zerith (Jul 29, 2011)

btw did update my post a ok bit ago ^^:


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## HolyMan (Aug 1, 2011)

*Experience July 16th - July 31st*


```
Player                              XP
Dragonwriter                     1,400
ghostcat                         1,200
Fangor the Fierce                  760
jackslate45                        750
Zerith                             275
Axel                               325
Megan Voss                         200
Herobizkit                         225
```

Is it me or does it seem EnWorld is running super slow??? - Seems like forever to load things and then I get thrown off. Been a bad day anyway and I wanted to relax and post and can't do that. 

Looks like a lot of people are close to level ups - Maybe sometime this month for most of you. 

I am about to change what I have written for Off to War to go along with what everyone posted in the IC to K2V. It was going to be long winded but it seems you all still have questions and things you wish to do, so might not end up in camp just yet, but close enough to use the Off to War thread.

Trust me I will give everyone the needed time to get themselves and their characters prepared before moving on to the next sub-adventure (which should take place in the city of Siere).

HM


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## jackslate45 (Aug 1, 2011)

gratz on 10,000 posts.  


Also, What time of the year is it?  When i looked over the Off To war IC thread the other day i could not find a reference for season.


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## Megan Voss (Aug 2, 2011)

So, just earlier I mentioned that Hera would need to be swinging blind in order to actually hit anything.  Funny thing about fate is?...

I was right.

Stabbing, (while blinded), yielded a hit so powerful it nearly criticaled and almost killed that poor creature in one fell swing.

Apparently the Dice God has a sense of humor as near to Hera's fictional God as well: They both laugh in the face of danger.  Heh.  I think Hera's new motto will be, "Better lucky, than good."

.

Please post your experience points below in reverence of the substantial irony here presented.  If I mock the Dice Gods again and I will be punished.  Lol.  "The Paladin cast Magic Missile at the darkness.  ...and she actually hit something.  Who knew?"


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## Herobizkit (Aug 2, 2011)

I'm curious as to how Megan ALREADY has almost as much xp as I do, and I started a few months (?) ago.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 2, 2011)

Megan Voss said:


> Please post your experience points below in reverence of the substantial irony here presented.  If I mock the Dice Gods again and I will be punished.  Lol.  "The Paladin cast Magic Missile at the darkness.  ...and she actually hit something.  Who knew?"




Here's a couple stories, both from the same campaign with the same character.

1: Big fight, group hired to take down people conspiring against city government and stockpiling weapons. Our job is to hit the corrupt smithies. We're going through, busting down doors and cutting the bad guys down (yes, sentient humanoids - we're not a nice group of folks, very mercenary, plus my PC worships the god of death quite openly as his racial god). Eventually, as almost always seems to happen, I roll a nat 1 and drop my primary weapon (heavy sickle). No problem, as I pull out my secondary weapon (heavy mace) and keep fighting. A couple rounds later in the same fight, I roll another damn nat 1 and drop the mace.  So I pull out my _tertiary_ weapon (shortspear) and... immediately roll a crit, killing the chief smith of that particular smithy. 

2: Not so much a story as simply a constant curse. My character is designed to be an unstoppable, unhittable tank. No joke, I had AC 22 at 1st level, without Dodge or Combat Expertise, simply as a function of my character's race (for +1 LA). So much of the time, enemies _need_ a nat 20 to hit me. ... And they get it. Almost every fight. Thankfully he's got enough HP to take it and they rarely get the second 20.


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## jackslate45 (Aug 2, 2011)

One time in our Rise of the Runelords, our barbarian friend rolled a 1 and confirmed it on the big boss guy. He drew from the fumble deck, and got one that let him to minimum damage to the target. Which was enough to kill it. 

Dice gods may not be on your side, but DM and Lady Luck always are.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 2, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> One time in our Rise of the Runelords, our barbarian friend rolled a 1 and confirmed it on the big boss guy. He drew from the fumble deck, and got one that let him to minimum damage to the target. Which was enough to kill it.
> 
> Dice gods may not be on your side, but DM and Lady Luck always are.




Depends on your DM. I know when I run the games for my Saturday and Monday groups, I don't pull punches. I play monsters more-or-less to their intelligence, but I play hard. I'll also customize big monsters (bosses, effectively) to make them a vicious challenge, especially for my 17th-level Monday group. It's all too easy for such high level characters to skate through fights, so I customized the latest boss monster just for them, after they've walked all over my previous bosses. 
I want them to win, sure, but I'm not going to let them have it easy. And there's the fact that character death happens, especially at high levels. And they're got easy retreat options (assuming the Wiz doesn't get hit with Finger of Death in the first few rounds ).


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## HolyMan (Aug 3, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> gratz on 10,000 posts.
> 
> 
> Also, What time of the year is it?  When i looked over the Off To war IC thread the other day i could not find a reference for season.




Thank you - Two years till 20k can't wait.

I do believe I put it somewhere small. Like in reference to a marching or something but the game started mid-spring and it would now be the last couple weeks of spring. I wanted the army marching to Siere in the middle of summer because I am an evil DM (not as evil as DW mind you) and I will be wanting to see some of the exhaustion posts players come up with.



Herobizkit said:


> I'm curious as to how Megan ALREADY has almost as much xp as I do, and I started a few months (?) ago.




Are we looking at the same XP chart?? I have your character at over 800 (80% to lvl 2) And Megan Voss's at a little over 300 (30% to lvl 2)

That is a major difference I would say.

HM


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 3, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> I am an evil DM (not as evil as DW mind you)




Using the tools at my disposal is evil? More evil than setting a hydra on a tiny group of at-best 3rd-level PCs?   

If/when this campaign reaches the 17th-level area, you'll be pulling out all the stops too, I'm quite sure. So far, experience has taught me the book-monsters are not as effective as they appear. Humanoids with class levels comparable to the PCs, specially-tailored monsters or groups of tough foes are the ones most capable of challenging a party. And the groups tactic can sometimes fail miserably.

[sblock=Example]
The previous adventure arc in my Monday game dealt with an invasion into elven lands by half-green dragon Orcs and Ettins. The standard Orcs all had levels in Warrior or Barbarian and were generally fairly tough, accurate and hard-hitting. Only trouble was, they were accurate up to a point. That point was 10 below more than half the party's AC (only the Wizard and Rogue could be hit reasonably). Even half-dragon Ettin Barbarians in the middle of a Rage could only hit on a 17 or better against the party's warriors (and often couldn't get around to the squishy mages) while getting made into pincushions and puddles of blood and flesh by blades, spears and arrows.
Even the blasted dragons I had set up for major bosses could only hit on a 15! (Or auto-kill the Wizard...)
I figured out ways to make things challenging anyway, while keeping the monsters I had worked so hard to make. Most of it involved environmental difficulties. Spellcaster support eventually helped even the odds (in favor of the monsters ).
[/sblock]

So finding other ways to hurt them and make them sweat became my goal for giving them a challenge. And now that the dragon plot is done with, I have other ways of hurting them with my new set of villains.  

They'll still have the chance to flee (and would probably be wise to take it), but I will always play my monsters to their own abilities. If that means tactical genius, that's what the party will face in the fight. The same is true in reverse - predator beasts will use rudimentary tactics (flanking at best), or goblins will just try to surround and stab-stab-stab. Intelligent enemies will make a tactical withdrawal/retreat, idiots will break and run in chaos. It all depends on what they are fighting at any given moment.


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## HolyMan (Aug 3, 2011)

Oh no you don't... aren't you the guy who said that it's best to have back up spell component pouches in case the DM tries to sunder them. LOL  True evil if ever I heard it.

And I think you may be right as the group just tore through a LvL 10 Wizard and a chimera in 2 and 1/2 rounds flat.

HM (who is never going to be allowed to live down that hydra encounter - LOL)


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## jackslate45 (Aug 3, 2011)

With only a d4 hit dice, wizards are always going to be going down first if the party is smart. Even one round showed how dangerous one could be, as poor FtF got enervation to the face.

Edit: Other than Mage armor, what other buffs did the guy have on him?


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## Herobizkit (Aug 3, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Are we looking at the same XP chart?? I have your character at over 800 (80% to lvl 2) And Megan Voss's at a little over 300 (30% to lvl 2)HM




Xp til July 31st:

Player                              XP
Dragonwriter                     1,400
ghostcat                         1,200
Fangor the Fierce                  760
jackslate45                        750
Zerith                             275
Axel                               325
Megan Voss                         200
Herobizkit                         225

The list is upthread in post 81, posted Aug 1.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 3, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Oh no you don't... aren't you the guy who said that it's best to have back up spell component pouches in case the DM tries to sunder them. LOL  True evil if ever I heard it.
> 
> And I think you may be right as the group just tore through a LvL 10 Wizard and a chimera in 2 and 1/2 rounds flat.
> 
> HM (who is never going to be allowed to live down that hydra encounter - LOL)




The spell component pouches business is just prudent planning. I have actually not done that to any of my players (no critters with Improved Sunder/Disarm or willing to take the AoO).

And as jackslate said, Wizards always go down fast if they can get closed on. Hence the customary "casters in back" order. 



Herobizkit said:


> Xp til July 31st:
> 
> Player                              XP
> Dragonwriter                     1,400
> ...




That's how much XP everyone received for July 16-31. Trinham and I wouldn't be 6th-level if we only had 1200 and 1400 XP respectively. 
Your total XP to date is in the first post of the RG and says you've got 830 XP.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 3, 2011)

Which reminds me - Are those negative levels negated?  Or possibly negated?  Or do I still have them?


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## HolyMan (Aug 3, 2011)

They are. In the spell description it says that they are not like gaining other negative levels (like from undead) and are regained 1 LvL ever hour/caster lvl (10 hours in this case).

Since it took the group about two days to get back to the river Mal should be in top shape. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 4, 2011)

@ HB those are only your XP for two weeks. DW has it right totals are in the RG. I think the XP system one of the great things about this game - I am in others that level up at a snails pace (if at all).

Off to War group - "What's in the bags?" 

Glad you asked, soon the ambassador (who I need to name but no one has asked so... ) will be giving everyone some 'gifts' for their help in finding out what is going on.

I am hoping to get everyone close to their WBL (but not to it, some of you are over and don't know it yet). So is there anything you truly wish to have for your characters or something you hope to have later in the game. 

Guess I am asking for early X-Mas wish lists and then we will see what is in Santa's bag. 

HM


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## jackslate45 (Aug 4, 2011)

I only want 3 scrolls: Mount (25), Identify(125), and Rope Trick(150), and enough time to scribe a few of them (with 500 gp scribe's costs).  And maybe some pearls to ID the magical items we have yet to ID.  

I have a feeling that Ern will be quite happy once that rod is Identified.  And I am sure Trinham wants to know what his sword is.  It just that without having to Identify simply swinging the sword around may cause another curse (Poor Aver)


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 4, 2011)

A few things come to mind on that magic items bit... Ring of Sustenance, Mithral Chain Shirt (magic optional), Gauntlets of Ogre Strength/Gloves of Dexterity, Amulet of Health, Headband of Intellect, Cloak of Resistance, Ring of Protection, Boots of Striding and Springing, Ring of Feather Falling... I think that list should give plenty of choices for now.  They're roughly in the order of desire, first being most.

Yep, Ring of Sustenance is a favorite item. So very useful, and to any/every class.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 4, 2011)

Mal's gear is roughly 1700gp total.  For Lvl 4, he should be around 5400gp in gear.  Taking that into consideration, here is what I would like to see drop out of that bag...  VESTER'S SEVERED HEAD!!

Ok, joking aside, I think he's in need of magical equipment and the only thing I can think of are gloves of dexterity.  A ring of sustenance would be welcome as well, but I would gladly trade in the extra weapons for something of more use.


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## Herobizkit (Aug 4, 2011)

What's a WBL?


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 4, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> What's a WBL?



Term for Wealth by Level.  Wealth a character should roughly have in gear/funds per level.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 4, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> What's a WBL?




Wealth By Level. As in, the suggested/supposed amount of gold/equipment a character of a given level should have. EDIT: Looks like Fangor multi-classed with Ninja. 

Trinham and I should have 13,000 (and soon, closer to 19,000), while I think we've got all of maybe 3,000 GP of stuff, counting our weapons. Jareth's Chain is +1 and Trinham's sword is magic (so probably +1), but that's really the extent of big stuff so far.


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## Herobizkit (Aug 4, 2011)

Bah, "should" have.  Back in 1e, you got what was randomly rolled and that was it.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 4, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> Bah, "should" have.  Back in 1e, you got what was randomly rolled and that was it.




There are plenty of folks still subscribing to that idea. I'm not one of them. 

Random treasure is annoying to me for a few reasons. 
1- It's easily abused by a crappy, controlling GM as an excuse for not giving out decent items. 
2- It has a habit of showing up with stuff no one can easily use. I understand coming up with clever uses for items, but when all you have is a grey Bag of Tricks, Dust of Appearance and a Ring of Feather Falling at 10th level, there's not a lot of really useful things you can do.
And 3- selling the stuff gets you less gold, according to the book, while keeping it makes the GM feel good about giving you junk. Either way, you might as well stab yourself in the foot.

Part of this is also 3/3.5 being built with the assumption of magic items being given/received during play and those items being actually useful. They're practically required for all classes (only Cleric, Druid and Wizard can really get away without them, Sorcerer to a lesser extent), if using a lot of book-monsters.
Example: Pit Fiend vs. 20th-level Fighter with no magic items. Fighter has, at best (Half-Orc for race), +20 BAB +2 Weapon Focus Feats +7 STR. Pit Fiend has 40 AC (44 if the Fiend is smart and uses Unholy Aura all the time). Fighter hits 1/2 the time with his first attack, 1/4 second, 1/20 on third and fourth strikes. And does all of 2d6+13 per hit. Meanwhile, he's getting ripped apart by the Pit Fiend's 6 attacks, all doing high damage and auto-hitting the Fighter. Now, yes, one of the casters could do something to help... But their save DCs will be a lot lower than they normally would be, making their most-potent spells far less effective (at best, DC 26-27 without magic items), which the Pit Fiend has a better than 50% chance of making. The Rogue has a fairly poor chance to hit with +15 BAB +7 Dex +1 Weapon Focus (possibly +2 flanking). Oh, and let's not forget DR and SR.
Now with items, the Fighter will hit harder, get hit less and generally do better. Same goes for the mages. The Rogue might actually be able to hit the Pit Fiend reasonably often. Magic items are needed to face the threats generally assumed to come up in-game.
And don't even get me started on Monks... 

There's also the matter (IMO) of using random treasure as an excuse to not put thought into the items given out. Which would you like more - the +1 weapon that fits your character's style or the +2 weapon that has no discernible use for anyone in the party? I've been playing in another campaign for over 3 years now and nearly all the treasure we've taken and used ourselves (rather than selling it) has come from NPCs the DM optimized, not random treasure. And even then, we generally keep less than half that stuff, simply because it isn't useful for anyone in the group.

So, yeah, I'm not fond of random treasure. WBL is far more palatable to me, even I don't believe it's the best solution. I'm not sold on 4E's auto-boost system either... I think it would really be best if both classes and the monsters encountered were entirely non-dependent on magic items, rather items being icing on a cake. But such a thing has not occurred with PF yet (and for obvious reasons, never will for 3.5), and I don't hold my breath for it happening. So I make use of WBL.


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## Axel (Aug 4, 2011)

Randomly rolled treasure produces some amusing and contradictory results at times.  A +5 Holy Avenger at level 3?  That happened once to a party I was in.  Result? The Paladin became even more annoying and overbearing.  I have also seen some truly bizarre and pointless items, like the Dagger +1, +3 vs Giants.  Because 1d4+3 (plus bizarre 2nd edition Strength bonuses) damage is awesome against Giants and everyone will put away their 2-handed sword to use the super-dagger.  Plus the aforementioned Bag of Tricks (there's an awesome comic from Order of the Stick about the wizards that create a Bag of Tricks somewhere around), Pearls of Arcane Power for spontaneous arcane casters etc.  

While it is unreasonable to expect every magic item found by the party to be usable, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect SOME customisation to the party.  Otherwise the Fighter has to decide if his Weapon Spec. Bastard Sword needs to be left behind to use the shiny new Flail of Frost +2 to fight the Fire Elemental Queen, because he has no other magic weapons and the Fire Elemental Queen is immune to non-magic physical damage...

Wealth-by-level I find to be an obscene concept.  The idea that by Level 7 "I should have this and this and this" just feeds the fire of the "gimme gimme" mentality a lot of people have these days.  Additionally, I have found that actually having the "correct" wealth-by-level makes combat encounters easier than they should be.  And, lastly, it cheapens the magic item creation feats.  If a player really, really, really wants a Wand of Haste (lets not go into why...) then they can take the creation feat and make one if the DM won't give it.  Having an absurd amount of gold floating around (wealth-by-level makes me feel rich) means anyone can go down to Ye Olde Magicke Item Emporium and just tick off the "must have" items like a Wand of Cure Level Appropriate Wounds.


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 4, 2011)

Regarding the ability to simply purchase what you want, that is not always the case.  In the only table top game I was part of, years ago, the DM gave decent funds, but the town we were in did not have the economy to grant us spending the 20k gold on decent items.  So, I think there is still a way to balance it, and of course, it all comes down to the DM.  Luckily, we have a good one


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## Herobizkit (Aug 4, 2011)

The metagame assumption of 3.x is that the PCs will be allowed to sell trinket/useless items in exchange for the resources necessary to craft the ones they DO want; 4e glossed this over with their WoW-style "magic powder" disenchantment mechanic.

Wealth also doesn't have to be in gold or magic items (though, again, 3.x assumes that it is), though the DM will have to 'justify' his reasoning if the players point a gun at him and make him distribute WBL.

To be fair, I recently played in an adventure where the level 5 PC's were sorely under-geared for the monsters we were facing.  I was allowed to make a new 4th level PC and buy my gear as per the WBL.  I came on board with a CLW Wand and a +1 Longspear... which was more than most of the party had.  The best weapon any of them had was a permanently Blessed/Good-aligned 2-handed sword (cool concept, though).

Way I figure it, as long as their melee characters get at least a +1 weapon, players can handle most monsters of around their level.

Everything else is gravy.


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## jackslate45 (Aug 4, 2011)

Most of what has been said I agree with, but the one thing I dislike more than anything is the XP cost to craft items. I understand the logic of why they did it, but when the melee/ ranged guys end up two or three levels ahead of the casters, fully decked out, I cry a little. 

IIRC, pathfinder boosted the initial price for crafting items to remedy this correct?


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 4, 2011)

Axel said:


> While it is unreasonable to expect every magic item found by the party to be usable, I don't think it is unreasonable to expect SOME customisation to the party.




If this is a response to my comment about customization, I didn't say I wanted every item to be usable. I pointed out that nearly none of them were usable. Those that were useful came almost-invariably from semi-optimized NPCs. 



> Wealth-by-level I find to be an obscene concept.  The idea that by Level 7 "I should have this and this and this" just feeds the fire of the "gimme gimme" mentality a lot of people have these days. Additionally, I have found that actually having the "correct" wealth-by-level makes combat encounters easier than they should be.




And yet, it is the default assumption of both 3.5 and PF. Having at least close to correct WBL gives you important bonuses and help keep you alive and well. IMO, the best way to stay alive and well is playing smart, but that's another topic. As for too easy, it's entirely dependent on how the encounters were set up. Was it a bunch of lower-CR enemies to make a proper EL fight? Or was it one or two bigger monsters? What level was the game? (As it gets higher, it gets tougher to gauge difficulty correctly, speaking from experience.)



> And, lastly, it cheapens the magic item creation feats.  If a player really, really, really wants a Wand of Haste (lets not go into why...) then they can take the creation feat and make one if the DM won't give it.




And if you don't have the time to craft things? You just blew a feat... If you're lucky, the DM allows retraining. If not, you're stuck with a useless feat. Theoretically, you are supposed to get down-time, but like WBL, it's simply theoretical. Games vary in their use of such things. 

Adding to Fangor's response: there can also easily be limitations on what is "in-stock" at magic shops. It's the DM's fault if the town has a Wizard 6, but sells +3 or +4 items. 



			
				Axel said:
			
		

> Hey, one of my favourite characters is a half-orc Monk w/ 20 Strength!




My comment about Monks didn't mean they can't be fun or effective. It was meant in the context of needing magic gear to stay potent (or even just competent) at higher levels. 



Herobizkit said:


> The metagame assumption of 3.x is that the PCs will be allowed to sell trinket/useless items in exchange for the resources necessary to craft the ones they DO want; 4e glossed this over with their WoW-style "magic powder" disenchantment mechanic.




And in some games, that works. Other games so severely limit magic items that it becomes pointless either way.



> Wealth also doesn't have to be in gold or magic items (though, again, 3.x assumes that it is), though the DM will have to 'justify' his reasoning if the players point a gun at him and make him distribute WBL.




I'm guessing you mean the 'political/social wealth' like becoming a commander/lord/whatever? I know older editions had that in mind for higher levels, and some 3.x/PF games (particularly the Kingmaker AP, from what I've heard and read) do manage to pull it off. Again, for some games that would work, and others it would fall flat on its face. 
I know in the game I mentioned before, my character (the one in my sig-sblock who has survived every damn thing thrown at him for the past 3 years) would absolutely hate having to actually manage things like that. He's an adventurer, not a ruler. 



> To be fair, I recently played in an adventure where the level 5 PC's were sorely under-geared for the monsters we were facing.  I was allowed to make a new 4th level PC and buy my gear as per the WBL.  I came on board with a CLW Wand and a +1 Longspear... which was more than most of the party had.  The best weapon any of them had was a permanently Blessed/Good-aligned 2-handed sword (cool concept, though).




Yeah, there's an example of lack of WBL being a problem. Admittedly, it can be a problem in the other direction if the DM doesn't pay attention to what the players are buying. I'm not saying WBL is the be-all end-all or a cure-all, merely that it _is_ and that it is an assumption built into this edition of our beloved game. 



> Way I figure it, as long as their melee characters get at least a +1 weapon, players can handle most monsters of around their level.




Up to a certain level, sure. That idea would work fine for an E6 game. Around 8th, though (IME), magic items start getting really important.
I absolutely know my high-level Monday party would be dead already if it wasn't for their magic items.

EDIT: Jackslate, yes, PF got rid of crafting's XP costs. I think they just increased the GP cost, or they might have just left it alone... Not sure, as I haven't really been involved in a lot of PF and haven't even thought about playing a crafter in a PF game.


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## Axel (Aug 5, 2011)

I re-read my post and it comes across as unnecessarily harsh in tone.  Apologies to anyone who thought I was having a dig at them...I wasn't.  Wealth-by-level just gets my hackles up.  So, sorry.  

Dragonwriter, I think you've nailed the issue without explicitly stating "the solution".  It is entirely the DM's prerogative to set treasure levels.  Provided they are consistent across adventures and characters, and design encounters that align with the treasure given and character capabilities, there will be no problems.  Sadly not all DMs (myself included in the bucket) are not as perfect as HM.

My bad experiences with magical treasure and "rich" or "poor" characters have always begun with one of the above principles being violated.  As you pointed out (I think it was you...too lazy to read that far back), a melee character without permanent magic item support is weak.  A full-caster without permanent magic item support is, well, not as powerful as they would be with them.  But, a naked level 15 sorceror is a force to be reckoned with far more than a naked level 15 half-orc barbarian.


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## jackslate45 (Aug 5, 2011)

WBL is one if those issues that every player wants to be easy and DMs find hard to balance.  If you give it too quickly, the PC's become too strong, and vice versa.  The DMs job is hard, and I applaud those who dedicate their time too do it well.


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2011)

WoW I opened a can o' worms - did I not. 

Please remember I said I would get characters close to WBL as this game is magic item light (guess no one, even NPCs like losing XP to craft). The game started low wealth as I believed everything you would need would be provided by the army. When you got to higher lvls you would get better arms and armor. The PC would prove he was a worthy squad leader, then commander, and then be equipped as such. 

Still possibilities but for now rewards from the ambassador will have to do.

Rant time (sorry) -

I am finding it odd that magic items take a back seat in most pbp games I am running (currently 13 - and need to start an LPF game soon - please join the LPF if you haven't and hop in ) 

In this game I have givin out very few as I think it is the character's abilities and personality that should be taking center stage, and will be what I am shooting for in the future. In this game you need not be at optimum WBL - because it also assumes you will have like what 6-7 encounters before you rest. Something that will not happen in a typical pbp game, and I know not this one. 

 In other games I have given out items and they are never used (never even put on a character sheet ) or they are sold off for what the player wants (so why did I put it in there?)

Just think pbp should have it's own way for XP, WBL, and encounters. Right now I only RP through pbp - there is no RL group close - and have been learning to become a better pbp DM (thanks for the compliment FtF - no you get no extra XP for it ).

Rant over I think

I just want to be able now to catch the group up a little - they will fall behind again - and give the items a little more meaning (reward from the ambassador) than picking them up in a shop.

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Axel said:


> Sadly not all DMs (myself included in the bucket) are not as perfect as HM.






jackslate45 said:


> The DMs job is hard, and I applaud those who dedicate their time too do it well.




Is it national suck up to the DM day? I thought that was Oct 4th? 

HM


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## jackslate45 (Aug 5, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Is it national suck up tp the DM day? I thought that was Oct 4th?
> 
> HM




Note to self, HMs birthday is Oct 4th.


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## Axel (Aug 5, 2011)

Yep, it's suck up to the DM day. 

And THIS is the OoTS I was thinking about. He was on a big roll for about 20 strips in a row with hilarious RPG commentary, before the plot got too developed to follow properly.

Giant In the Playground Games


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## Herobizkit (Aug 5, 2011)

Bag of Tricks = dispensable trap locators.



			
				The Ineffable HolyMan said:
			
		

> In other games I have given out items and they are never used (never even put on a character sheet ) or they are sold off for what the player wants (so why did I put it in there?)



In my solo campaign, my player meticulously notes eery tiny trinket of magic he finds because he's all about the Bottom Line - How Much Am I Worth?

He never uses potions (you can only use 'em once, what a waste), seldom uses Wands (they run out, they're useless, what a waste), and no item is too worthless as long as it's maaaaaagic.  

If a player doesn't even bother writing down a magic item, they don't have it - they must have "lost it" somewhere (just like in real life).   If they sell the treasure for something else they want, you did your job right by giving them the wealth necessary to get the items they really want (just like bad Xmas gifts) but may never find.

In my case, I love returning weapons, but they're a +2 equivalent (in 3.x and Pathfinder).  Given that many games I play are low-level and seldom exceed level 5, I generally never, ever see one.  I also played through the RttToEE with a character who blew all his feats on the two-bladed sword (because it was new and cool at the time), and only ever owned a +1 one.  He's level 17 now, and still doesn't own any better blade; we never had time to craft, and the campaign ended before I could have one made.

Not getting what you want sucks.


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## ghostcat (Aug 5, 2011)

I must admit Trinham's wish list is very similar to Jareth's:

Miteral Shirt, Amulet of Health, Cloak of Charisma, Ring of Sustenance, Gauntlets of Ogre Strength/Gloves of Dexterity


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## jackslate45 (Aug 5, 2011)

Question: is taking 10 on spellcraft possible?  Or is it too important to take your time on?  I ask for the copying of spells part mostly, but for other non-combatant situations as well.


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2011)

If you have the time you may take ten. If you really really have time like a day or two to study something you may take 20 (which is what I was going to assume for the red rod and post that up when I did Ern's treasure).

HM


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## HolyMan (Aug 5, 2011)

Ok going over some items and such and writing a little. What I need to know is what your characters have told the ambassador about themselves and what went on in Vester's Lair.

- Did anyone say anything about the underground woods? The treasure hoard?

- Did you tell Elder Tyion about the view of the city from the mountains or that it was possible to gain access?

I guess I was hoping to get some info from the "you take a few days to get back, so post up what happens" posts but I guess I didn't make it quite clear now that I look back.

What I need to know is what the ambassador knows about the group. You all may discuss that here - kind of like when you were traveling and talked quietly amongst yourselves - to all get on the same track. My weekend is about to start and we all know how busy that is (which sucks), so I should be ready to give out items advance the thread by SUN nite. 

Also do you wish to go to Harkon first? Or cross the river and head towards the army? That's all a little ways off but would help me in being ahead.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 5, 2011)

Mal would not have offered much information.  Things he would have talked about, if anyone else brought up the fight and the treasure hoard would be:

Vester is a Green Dragon, and his follower was a Dragon Shaman like him - named Haden.
Mal is a follower of Emma.  
He will not reveal her real name, as that is something SHE would hold dear and would only reveal if it was her wish to do so.
Emma is a Copper Dragon, and is one that is looking to help in stopping the war, but only through her involvement of Mal right now.
The treasure hoard was plenty of gems and coins, but there was no time to gather it.
Haden was killed, outright, as Mal had enough of him.
Aver has cursed boots on, that he can't get rid of, but grant him an increase in speed.

That's all that he would divulge, and all he really knows.  He knows nothing of the army, who they report to, etc, so he will pay attention to anything that is told about that from Jareth, Trinham, etc.

Who else has been part of the army?  I know Jareth and Trinham, but anybody else?  I see that we have Ern, Aver (NPC now), Trinham and Jareth.  Who am I forgetting?


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 5, 2011)

Jareth would only have said anything regarding the Ways if he were specifically asked about them. And his answer would likely be fairly terse. If it came up, he'd probably mention the mountain exit.

He absolutely would not speak further of the Treylor saving him, nor of his personal actions in the time since leaving Tharivol's tutelage.

RE: Harkon - Jareth intends to deliver a note for Lady Rizella, with instructions to only open it after the army has left.

RE: The Army - yeah, that's everyone in the current group with you, Fangor. Of them, only Trinham and Jareth were members of the Irregulars. Speaking of which, Jareth would have made plain (if you couldn't already tell) his immense dislike of Dellex.


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## jackslate45 (Aug 7, 2011)

-Ernestine would have mentioned the mountain pass and over watch, if only to supplement her story of having lived there for the past month.  
-She would not reveal anything about being a Reaver, or her activities with Haden.  
-She would mention that there was dragon shamen that they fought against, but was killed by Mal

She would have talked about it, if only to allow some trust in the ambassador.  Oh, and ask him his full name


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## ghostcat (Aug 7, 2011)

While Trinham will speak freely with the others, he will only speak to the elves when spoken to and then in monosyllables. It is unlikely that he would speak about the Ways as the others know about it. As its likely that the ambassador will want to know about his travelling companions, he will tell him that "he is a country boy who joined the Duke's army and later found out that he actually has sorcerous powers."


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## HolyMan (Aug 8, 2011)

Ok before you go killing me DW hear me out. 

I have my reasons for the improved stats you just have to trust your DM.

Magical items (after Ernestine uses the wand to ID them )

Trinham 
ring of substance w/ pearl of power (3rd lvl) added in
sword +1, dragonbane

Ernestine
wand of indentify (42 charges - more than enough for this campaign)
scrolls - Rope trick and Mount (cost to transcribe will be nil when you reach Harkon and do so at Skazul's place)
red Rod of Metamagic (extend-lesser)

Malaroc
gloves of DEX +4 ( I know a little pricey but finding others may not be in the cards - and these are so cute. )

Jareth
mithral chainshirt
Seal of Kem - same as medallion of thoughts (ambassador knows about it's properties)

Tried to give you all what you wanted and what I need to move things along to the next chapter.

HM


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## ghostcat (Aug 8, 2011)

*Character Growth*

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] Trinham started off as a country bumpkin and didn't really have any social skills. However, he as recently been rubbing shoulders with the nobility so I thought it was time to develop some _Diplomacy_ skill. Unfortunately not only is _Diplomacy_ not a Battle Sorcerer's class skills but the only Class skills I'm not using are _Craft_ and _Profession_, which can't really be considered a far swap.

I know I could just take it as a cross-class skill but I also know how you like tailoring characters. So any suggestions. 

One thought I had is that I transfer 1 skill point from _Intimidate_ to _Diplomacy_ every level-up.


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 8, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Ok before you go killing me DW hear me out.
> 
> I have my reasons for the improved stats you just have to trust your DM.




Kill you? For what - the wish list? I'm of the mind a Wish List is just that - wishes. If you're lucky, you get the stuff. As for making Jareth a Baron... we'll just have to see how he handles it. 

I think it's already been made quite clear you've managed to (mostly ) balance the fights to the characters and their equipment.

And that latest post was pretty damn awesome! 



> Trinham
> ring of substance w/ pearl of power (3rd lvl) added in




Not to be a stickler, but did you mean Ring of Sustenance? Seeing as there's no "Substance" in the SRD...
And Pearl of Power only works for preparation-casters, unless you are tweaking it. WotC did eventually create a spontaneous-caster version (called Memento Magica, in Races of the Dragon).


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## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 8, 2011)

Whoa!  Nice gloves!  I thought we were getting a single item, so I listed only one I would like.  Should have opted for multiple items, hahahaha.  Kidding! I LOVE the gloves! 

Mals new threat.... "Come get some!"


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## jackslate45 (Aug 8, 2011)

Hurray for new spells!  Always did enjoy that part of being a wizard.

Also, I think that wand will be highly useful, so thanks HM.


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## HolyMan (Aug 9, 2011)

ghostcat said:


> Trinham started off as a country bumpkin and didn't really have any social skills. However, he as recently been rubbing shoulders with the nobility so I thought it was time to develop some _Diplomacy_ skill. Unfortunately not only is _Diplomacy_ not a Battle Sorcerer's class skills but the only Class skills I'm not using are _Craft_ and _Profession_, which can't really be considered a far swap.
> 
> I know I could just take it as a cross-class skill but I also know how you like tailoring characters. So any suggestions.
> 
> One thought I had is that I transfer 1 skill point from _Intimidate_ to _Diplomacy_ every level-up.




Would he be the "key speaker" in situations or use it more like aid another? I think the later to start and then he would develop on his own. 

Trinham is due to level up and I'm not sure if he gets a new zero level spell or not. When he does would you be willing to give up a new known spell (zero lvl) to gain Diplomacy and Know(Nobility) as class skills?



Dragonwriter said:


> Kill you? For what - the wish list? I'm of the mind a Wish List is just that - wishes. If you're lucky, you get the stuff. As for making Jareth a Baron... we'll just have to see how he handles it.



Mostly I didn't want to b killed for making Jareth a Baron. The wish lists were so the same it was hard for me to decided who should get what first. (see below)


			
				DW said:
			
		

> I think it's already been made quite clear you've managed to (mostly ) balance the fights to the characters and their equipment.




Is that *another* reference to the hydra???  I think I will have to bring his brother into the game now that you are higher level and in a boat. 


			
				DW said:
			
		

> And that latest post was pretty damn awesome!




Thanks it was a long process getting all that together and figuring out. Glad you liked it and didn't mind my taking over Jareth like I did.



			
				DW said:
			
		

> Not to be a stickler, but did you mean Ring of Sustenance? Seeing as there's no "Substance" in the SRD...
> And Pearl of Power only works for preparation-casters, unless you are tweaking it. WotC did eventually create a spontaneous-caster version (called Memento Magica, in Races of the Dragon).




Yes to both. 

It should be sustenance. I figured giving it to Trinham gives your main caster the advantage of needing less rest between regaining spells. And I hope ghostcat will play up Trinham's new found need not to eat.

A pearl of power is prepared only? Odd that. You need to first cast a spell and then activate the item (a standard action) so you can't do so in the same round. So why wouldn't a spontaneous caster benefit from that. That clause will be negated and changed to any spellcaster. Maybe they thought in the hands of someone with a lot of spells per day shouldn't have it?



Fangor the Fierce said:


> Whoa!  Nice gloves!  I thought we were getting a single item, so I listed only one I would like.  Should have opted for multiple items, hahahaha.  Kidding! I LOVE the gloves!
> 
> Mals new threat.... "Come get some!"




I was giving out enough items to hopefully catch people up to the WBL. You will fall behind again but until then enjoy. 



jackslate45 said:


> Hurray for new spells!  Always did enjoy that part of being a wizard.
> 
> Also, I think that wand will be highly useful, so thanks HM.




NP - knocking out the need to carry around a lot of 100gp pearls and not be allowed to spend them seemed neccasary. Also have you seen the description of Skazul's library in Battle at Harkon Manor? Talk about getting spells 

HM


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## jackslate45 (Aug 9, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Also have you seen the description of Skazul's library in Battle at Harkon Manor? Talk about getting spells
> 
> HM



Not yet. I have yet to read through that IC (got O2W and K2V done)


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 9, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Mostly I didn't want to b killed for making Jareth a Baron. The wish lists were so the same it was hard for me to decided who should get what first. (see below)




He might try to kill you if he knew others were controlling events.  But I think it's quite an interesting development.



> Is that *another* reference to the hydra???




Maybe.  (I can be a pit bull with some things. )
If it makes you feel better, some monsters really are just too strong for their apparent CR. The critter I mentioned building up a while back got its fight last night... And this monster (Horned Devil advanced to 21 HD and Huge size - CR 20) absolutely mopped the floor with the party. It should have been within their realm of defeating, by the CR numbers, but the rolls made it untouchable, extremely heavy-hitter and all-around death machine. It would've been TPK if I hadn't thrown Plot and Deus Ex Machina at it (realized only after 7 rounds of meat grinder, 3 or so of which it spent out of the fight, tempting and taunting the PCs).



> Thanks it was a long process getting all that together and figuring out. Glad you liked it and didn't mind my taking over Jareth like I did.




The little bit you used him for did fit his reactions, so I don't mind. 



> A pearl of power is prepared only? Odd that.<SNIP>
> Maybe they thought in the hands of someone with a lot of spells per day shouldn't have it?




Yep, prepared only. The reasoning may have had to do with the Sor's spell slots, while preparation-casters would expend their battle spells, while having to keep slots filled with utility and buff spells. A Pearl would let them recover one of those battle spells and keep on going.



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> a potent aid to all spellcasters who *prepare spells (clerics, druids, rangers, paladins, and wizards)*. Once per day on command, a pearl of power enables the possessor to recall any one spell that she had *prepared* and then cast. The spell is then *prepared* again, just as if it had not been cast.




Emphasis mine. I agree it was an odd choice to limit it to just them, when it's a Core item. Similarly odd are a number of rules clauses (like Rogue's not being allowed to Sneak Attack if they can't see clearly - shadowy illumination - one of the chief ways Rogue is capable of setting up a Sneak Attack).


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## ghostcat (Aug 9, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Would he be the "key speaker" in situations or use it more like aid another? I think the later to start and then he would develop on his own.



I think you are right. Trinham needs to ease his way into this. 



> Trinham is due to level up and I'm not sure if he gets a new zero level spell or not. When he does would you be willing to give up a new known spell (zero lvl) to gain Diplomacy and Know(Nobility) as class skills?



Battle Sorcerers only get 1st and 2nd level  spells at 7th level. They don't get a new 0th level spell at 8th level. So I can either borrow _Dipolmacy_ at 7th or wait uptil 8th.



> It should be sustenance. I figured giving it to Trinham gives your main caster the advantage of needing less rest between regaining spells. And I hope ghostcat will play up Trinham's new found need not to eat.



This should be fun.Trinham likes his food. Now I just have to puzzle out how to play this.



> A pearl of power is prepared only? Odd that. You need to first cast a spell and then activate the item (a standard action) so you can't do so in the same round. So why wouldn't a spontaneous caster benefit from that. That clause will be negated and changed to any spellcaster. Maybe they thought in the hands of someone with a lot of spells per day shouldn't have it?



I think Dragonwriter has the right of it. Spontaneous casters can always reuse spells so the ability to recover a spell that they have just cast isn't that useful. Apart from gaining an extra third level spell that is.


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## HolyMan (Aug 9, 2011)

Thanks DW I think after the few years of DMing Jareth I feel I have his character down somewhat and that is always a good feeling. Now I know what to through at him to bring him to his knees. LOL

Tough monster and bad dice - not a very good mix for a party of adventurers.

------------

ghostcat is that a yes to losing the zero known for the class skills swap? If so then you could take and at lvl 7 put two points in diplomacy for 1 rank. And then at 8th lvl it would switch up to a class skill noting Trinham becoming better at it.

The pearl will work for Trinham but remember it will recall the last 3rd lvl spell you casted and thinking about it you would need to cast it the following round as a sorcerer doesn't keep spells in his head.

So I guess a drawback would be if you don't use the spell then it slips away again.

Are you ok with this limitation?

HM


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## Dragonwriter (Aug 9, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> Thanks DW I think after the few years of DMing Jareth I feel I have his character down somewhat and that is always a good feeling. Now I know what to through at him to bring him to his knees. LOL




I think he's been brought to his knees more often in the last month of RP than in the rest of the nearly-two-years I've been playing him. 



> Tough monster and bad dice - not a very good mix for a party of adventurers.



He'd still retreat from a Hydra. They're a vicious foe, and fast healing would quickly negate any damage done. IMO, they're a bad example of a puzzle-monster, one you _must_ use a very specific set of tactics to defeat. And those tactics are rarely utilized by PCs, because Sunder is generally looked at as only good for destroying treasure. 

Now, I've got no problem with puzzle-based encounters. It's just when the puzzle is so narrow, contrived and easily stacked against the PCs that it bothers me. Really, look at what the Sunder action entails/requires and you'll soon see it's a huge pain to attempt without Improved Sunder and an Adamantine Weapon (thanks to Hardness just soaking most of the damage you will deal).



> The pearl will work for Trinham but remember it will recall the last 3rd lvl spell you casted and thinking about it you would need to cast it the following round as a sorcerer doesn't keep spells in his head.
> 
> So I guess a drawback would be if you don't use the spell then it slips away again.
> 
> ...




FWIW, the Memento Magica (mentioned above, WotC's later printing of a Spontaneous Caster's Pearl of Power) just gave the caster back one of their used spontaneous spell slots. Doing such a thing would probably be a lot easier than keeping track of this limitation.
(And the Memento was designed to look like a crystal dragon scale. )


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## ghostcat (Aug 11, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> ghostcat is that a yes to losing the zero known for the class skills swap? If so then you could take and at lvl 7 put two points in diplomacy for 1 rank. And then at 8th lvl it would switch up to a class skill noting Trinham becoming better at it.




OK. I'll go with this.



> The pearl will work for Trinham but remember it will recall the last 3rd lvl spell you casted and thinking about it you would need to cast it the following round as a sorcerer doesn't keep spells in his head.
> 
> So I guess a drawback would be if you don't use the spell then it slips away again.
> 
> ...




So does this keep the "once per day" limit. Meaning that once a day he can re-cast a 3rd level spell the round after he cast it, without cost.

I must admit, I am not too enchanted with this but looking back. Trinham does seem to cast the same spells in successive rounds.


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## Zerith (Aug 13, 2011)

finally got a lap topy! ^_^
Anyways, I should be posting as per normal soon, ish, I'm on a gaming binge right now you see... ^_^;
[things look nice when they boom!]


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## HolyMan (Aug 13, 2011)

Yes it is once per day. Sorry you don't like the limitation - the getting a slot back seemed just a little off to me. You are recalling a spell that you just casted and since your a sorcer and don't keep spells in your head you would need to 'get rid of it'.

Now that I think on it that may not work out to well. It would be...

Rd1: cast 3rd lvl spell
Rd2: activate magical item
Rd3: cast same 3rd lvl spell as round 1

Hmmm... when do you get another third lvl spell? I can see this being useful for like protections or before going some place dangerous. 

"Trinham cast Bear's Endurance on himself and then uses the pearl to cast it again on Jareth." Or something like that. In combat it may take a little more stratagem. 

--------------

Glad you will be keeping up with us Zerith. 

HM


----------



## ghostcat (Aug 13, 2011)

Trinham won't get another 3rd level spell until 9th level.


----------



## Megan Voss (Aug 13, 2011)

Thanks HM for the great campaign.  I had lots of fun.

I'm picking up a second job here at home to pay my bills, so I can't really stick around and play.  Sorry guys.  RL sucks right now.

You guys were all great though.  Made a girl feel special.  Here's wishing you all hugs and kisses!  Muh!  

Bye bye and TTFN.  Ta ta for now!

-Megs


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 14, 2011)

Sorry to hear about your RL coming up to take away your fun Megan Voss. Good thing is we will still be around should you find the time and wish to jump into a game.

Good luck in all you do.

HM


----------



## Axel (Aug 14, 2011)

Bye Meg.  The RL Monster has teeth sharper than a dragon with a grip tougher than a bull dog's...I hate it with a passion.  2 jobs to pay the bills must suck even harder than a new vacuum cleaner.  Guess the US job market really is  at the moment eh?

Zerith, I am afraid to ask what a lap topy is but I am going to anyway.

HM:  In a game related query...how long (roughly) has it been since the party saw the "servant" coming out the tower before the present moment?


----------



## Zerith (Aug 14, 2011)

a laptop, a easily moved PC :/


----------



## Axel (Aug 15, 2011)

Zerith said:


> a laptop, a easily moved PC :/






Sorry.  I suffer from reading comprehension (or typo exclusion) failure periodically...


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 16, 2011)

*Experience Aug 1st - Aug 15th*


```
Player                          XP
jackslate45                    365
Dragonwriter                   750
ghostcat                       650
Fangor the Fierce              390
Axel                           440
Herobizkit                     215
Megan Voss                     185
Zerith                         250
```

*CONGRATS to ghostcat and Dragonwriter for reaching 7th Level!!*
*
CONGRATS to Herobizkit for reaching 2nd Level* (knew you could do it, LOL)

Sorry this is a little late having computer problems and Borders has closed on me.  Will be updating shortly.

HM


----------



## Axel (Aug 17, 2011)

Hooray, first to congratulate everyone!!  

Well done sticking to a PbP till level 7 ghostcat and Dragonwriter.  

And Herobizkit - finally a most deserved level up.  You really must have Tio take a level in Smartass.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 17, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> *CONGRATS to ghostcat and Dragonwriter for reaching 7th Level!!*




Excellent! Now comes another wish to trade away a class feature: Armored Mage (heavy shield). We made a trade for Armored Mage (Medium) before, so I'd like to do the same for the shield, as Jareth has absolutely no use for such things. It doesn't fit his fighting style at all.
Trading for Whirlwind Attack is way lop-sided, so I'll have a look back through the threads and try to dig up the list I suggested when I traded Spell Power +2.



> *
> CONGRATS to Herobizkit for reaching 2nd Level* (knew you could do it, LOL)




Yes, congrats! 



> Sorry this is a little late having computer problems and Borders has closed on me.  Will be updating shortly.
> 
> HM




You're going to have to find a different internet hangout... One more sad side effect of that whole business.
(Though I am pleased I scored so many good books on such discounts.)


----------



## Herobizkit (Aug 18, 2011)

Woah, I actually went UP a level... in a PbP?  I... I don't know what to do with it! *lol*

Thanks for the gratz, all.  But in all honesty, I really didn't expect Tio to level, so I have no real 'plan' for him... or did I?  I may need to dig through older posts and see if I can refresh myself...

Edit: Oh, wow, Bard/Cloistered Cleric/Chameleon was my plan? *LOL*

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: How would you like to handle to leveling-up process?  Consider I'm going Cloistered Cleric... I need me some book-learnin'.


----------



## jackslate45 (Aug 20, 2011)

I apologize for the delayed posting.  It has been a very bad week, which ended in my dad going to the hospital yesterday morning.  He is doing fine though, and should be home either today or tomorrow.


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 20, 2011)

Sorry to hear jackslate45 - Here's wishing for the best for you and yours.

HM


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## ghostcat (Aug 21, 2011)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] I've posted Trinham's level 7 changed in the RG.

[MENTION=95784]jackslate45[/MENTION] Hope your dads OK.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 21, 2011)

Okay, here's the mostly-complete level-up for Jareth.

[sblock=Jareth Level 7 Changes]
HP increase in attached die roll. (d8+2). X
BAB increases to +7/+2.
Learn 1 spell (of 2nd-level, Bull’s Strength) and gain 2 extra 2nd-level spell slots.
Gain Armored Mage (Medium), trade for …
Gain 8 skill points (2 base +2 house rule +3 INT +1 human): Concentration +1 (total 12), Jump +1 (total 11), Knowledge (arcana) +1 (total 13), Ride +1 (total 12), Sense Motive +1 (total 10), Spellcraft +1 (total 17), Swim +1 (total +9), Tumble +1 (total 14)
[/sblock]

I did track down the feats we mentioned before...

[sblock=Feat Possibilities]
Core:
The save –boosting feats (Great Fort, Iron Will, Lightning Reflexes).
Improved Initiative.

There are non-Core. One is in the Psionics section of the SRD, but is not a Psionic feat. The others I can type up in full and send you the info.
Sidestep Charge (SRD/Expanded Psionics Handbook) - +4 Dodge AC against charges, foe who misses on a charge attack provokes AoO. Not a Fighter feat.
Dash (Complete Warrior) - +5 ft of speed when wearing light or no armor. Not a Fighter feat.
Touch Spell Specialization (Complete Arcane) - +2 damage bonus on Touch spells. Not a Fighter feat.
[/sblock]

But I also had the idea of maybe we could change it to grant a bonus on Fighting Defensively or using Combat Expertise, so it would serve more to the purpose of the original class feature. Maybe get INT mod as a bonus to AC when Fighting Defensively/Total Defense/Combat Expertise or something like that...


----------



## Ian.Fleming (Aug 21, 2011)

.?.


----------



## Herobizkit (Aug 22, 2011)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: How do you want me to handle leveling?  I want to take a level of Cloistered Cleric.


----------



## Axel (Aug 23, 2011)

Sorry for the lack of posting on my part.  Been visiting a terminally ill relative this weekend...  Catching up now.


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 23, 2011)

NP - I have been having troubles with Enworld lately.

- Things taking a long time to load. - Especially dice rolling.
- Getting a blank white screen when I try to open a thread in a new tab.
- Posts not going through - again it goes to an all white screen.

I have been fustrated for a few days now. Tonight so far isn't to bad so I will try and updated everything I can.

-HM


----------



## Axel (Aug 23, 2011)

ENWorld seem to have changed the default board skin from black to white.  That may be the cause of the "white noise" effect you're getting HM.  Have to go through your profile settings and put it back to the "black" that people seem to set their IC speech to contrast with.


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 23, 2011)

I set it back to black about 30 seconds after I got my sight back. 

Was doing awful a moment ago and now I get all my links in new tabs - I'm in for a long night. 

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 24, 2011)

ghostcat said:


> I've posted Trinham's level 7 changed in the RG.




Good to go although your character sheet is out of date (in the skills area) It still says 20 ranks and 4/2 for max ranks. Also I don't see the wand Trinham got from Skazul anywhere.

Please use the first character post as your sheet and all changes and current equipment on it. And the LvL up post for notes, reminders and what not.



Dragonwriter said:


> Okay, here's the mostly-complete level-up for Jareth.
> 
> I did track down the feats we mentioned before...
> 
> ...




You need not keep it within the confines of the class. Remember what I said about you gaining magic missile if you wished. You character is human and not training with regular Bon'Dradi so his abilities are manifesting in unique ways. Your life experiences dictate what you learn and in this case I would lean towards Iron Will (DM hint that a certain mage has it out for your charater) as it will help long term against the Treylor, as you will come to see.



Ian.Fleming said:


> .?.




?  ? Post in the wrong thread? NP if you did.



Herobizkit said:


> How do you want me to handle leveling?  I want to take a level of Cloistered Cleric.




That is no problem but I hear you are looking for an RP for it. I would say that your cleric had been taught (and studied very hard) before going to Rem. But with Padre Gole around he didn't need to turn to what he was taught. Now out on his own he needs to remember his studies and do his teachers proud.

You can always do a flashback post about any knowledge skill you make a check for, reliving your school days.

Or you can have an old book full of notes on various subjects that you study. Perhaps it's an old journal of Padre Goles' and his adventures as a young cleric.

It is all up to you how you wish to go about it. But I don't believe you will have time to be "cloistered" up anytime soon. 

_________________________________________________

Sorry I got to all this so late it has taken me forever to update all my games. I waited 20 minutes for a roll to go through. (the whole time checking other threads when it would let me) - I hope they fix this soon it is maddening.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 24, 2011)

HolyMan said:


> You need not keep it within the confines of the class. Remember what I said about you gaining magic missile if you wished. You character is human and not training with regular Bon'Dradi so his abilities are manifesting in unique ways. Your life experiences dictate what you learn and in this case I would lean towards Iron Will (DM hint that a certain mage has it out for your charater) as it will help long term against the Treylor, as you will come to see.




I was thinking of keeping it in the spirit/style of the class feature itself - something moderately defensive in nature. If you're fine with trading it for Iron Will, then so am I. 

I rather expect a little vendetta from Dellex. I didn't exactly endear myself to him.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 26, 2011)

I've got to say... This portion of your post, Axel



Axel said:


> Glancing at his intended purchase through the window on the way in, Alden strode up to the counter without a pause.  He spoke to the clerk in a voice devoid of his usual vocabular mangulations, "Good morning sir.  I find myself in need of a fine crossbow and in possession of a valuable piece of metal at the same time.  Noting your wares on display I would dearly like to try that fine example of your craftsmanship.  Perchance have you a target butt nearby?"




reminded me significantly of this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3KBuQHHKx0



Be glad HM didn't inflict that upon you.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 26, 2011)

LOL!  That was hilarious!!!  I can really see HM acting that out in the game.


----------



## Axel (Aug 27, 2011)

[MENTION=54988]Dragonwriter[/MENTION].  Glad you liked it (I think).    I was going for something of an over-the-top impression.   

Incidentally, you don't see nearly enough Monty Python clips on these boards.


----------



## Herobizkit (Aug 28, 2011)

Axel said:


> Incidentally, you don't see nearly enough Monty Python clips on these boards.



I told him we already got one.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 29, 2011)

In other news, I finished updating Jareth's sheet... and I hate the dice roller! 

Of course, the latter portion of the previous statement is far from a new development.


----------



## Axel (Aug 29, 2011)

Herobizkit said:


> I told him we already got one.




Oh I am now sooo confused.  We got some cheese??


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 29, 2011)

Axel said:


> Oh I am now sooo confused.  We got some cheese??




No, not cheese. A parrot.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=npjOSLCR2hE


----------



## Axel (Aug 30, 2011)

As much as I love the parrot sketch, I am so glad that I didn't have to go through that.  

[MENTION=54988]Dragonwriter[/MENTION]: Any chance you can unembed the video and put it in as a link instead?  The embedded video is making it really hard to load this thread.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 30, 2011)

Axel said:


> Any chance you can unembed the video and put it in as a link instead?  The embedded video is making it really hard to load this thread.




Done and done for the other video. I wonder why it would be giving you trouble... My connection is usually just above "garbage" and it was loading no problem.

On a side note: I quite dislike Mentions... The blasted things hang around until you go to your Profile page to have a look at the spot and I have better things to do! Especially as I'm already subscribed to the threads in which people are using the Mention function, the usefulness of the function is negated by my wonderfully-useful Subscription.


----------



## Axel (Aug 30, 2011)

Probably because I am currently on a company provided internet connection.  All youtube clips are filtered by the 'net nazis to result in nothing.  Besides which, you're in North America.  You have no right to describe internet connections as 'garbage' until you've tried the ones down here...

Thanks for changing them, by the way.  

Finally, can't say I like mentions, quotes or subscriptions much.  I check my ENWorld bookmarks when I'm good'n'ready and ignore the "New Notifications" thingamabob.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 30, 2011)

Axel said:


> Probably because I am currently on a company provided internet connection.  All youtube clips are filtered by the 'net nazis to result in nothing.  Besides which, you're in North America.  You have no right to describe internet connections as 'garbage' until you've tried the ones down here...




Well, compared to previous experiences, mine is often in the garbage-pile. When it takes 5 minutes to load just dumb old Yahoo, it's garbage. 



> Thanks for changing them, by the way.




Yeah, no problem. 



> Finally, can't say I like mentions, quotes or subscriptions much.  I check my ENWorld bookmarks when I'm good'n'ready and ignore the "New Notifications" thingamabob.




I know you can disable the "Quote Alert" somewhere in your User Settings. Don't remember if disabling Mentions was an option there, too, or not...


----------



## HolyMan (Aug 30, 2011)

You can get rid of the email notifications when you hit a new reply. It is below the manage attachments, there on the left.

I have my User control panel bookmarked. When I sign on I just go to it and see all the threads that have new posts. Then when I am down I click on:

Main Games - DM folder and then go to work updating where I can.

HM


----------



## Zerith (Aug 30, 2011)

HM, you've left me at a impasse I would make a post but I can't because Alex would wait to hear what the mayor says initially and then speak to he  mayor: but he can't see the mayor or tell who the mayor is until the  mayor makes the first move. :/

Also, how tall is this guy? Alex is 6'3", the guy would have to be even taller to look over Alex's head >_<


----------



## ghostcat (Aug 30, 2011)

Trinham has +5 in Dipolmacy, +4 (untrained) in Bluff and +0 in sense Motive.

I suggest I aid another in Diplomacy, Aid Janeth in Bluff and fail miserably in SM. So the question is who do I aid in Diplomacy? 

Thinking about it a bit more, is it even possible to aid two different people at the same time?


----------



## Dragonwriter (Aug 30, 2011)

ghostcat said:


> I suggest I aid another in Diplomacy, Aid Janeth in Bluff and fail miserably in SM. So the question is who do I aid in Diplomacy?




Are we even trying Diplomacy? Jareth sure isn't... He has no reason to try to be friendly with Dellex. And even if he did, he wouldn't. 



> Thinking about it a bit more, is it even possible to aid two different people at the same time?




I can only offer a vague rules-quote on Aid Another...


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> In many cases, a character’s help won’t be beneficial, or only a limited number of characters can help at once.






Zerith said:


> Also, how tall is this guy? Alex is 6'3", the guy would have to be even taller to look over Alex's head >_<




You should realize your fixation on height only makes it easier to get whacked in the crotch by shorter folks...


----------



## jackslate45 (Aug 30, 2011)

Ern was going to bluff as well, but with the open hostility that everyone is showing she could try the "Now let's all be friends" approach. She does have a +4 Diplomacy vs +5 Bluff, so I am sure she could use/give a bonus.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Aug 30, 2011)

Oops, I guess I should have read here before I posted....


----------



## jackslate45 (Aug 31, 2011)

Well at least Ern rolled a 19...oh wait she does not do diplomacy well...


----------



## HolyMan (Sep 1, 2011)

*Experience Aug 16th - Aug 31st*

WoW finally letting me post after almost two hours of nothing.


```
[U]Player                              XP[/U]
Axel                               280
Zerith                             190
Herobizkit                         100
Dragonwriter                       825
ghostcat                           825
jackslate45                        450
Fangor the Fierce                  340
```

*CONGRATS to jackslate45 for reaching 4th Level* - some nice posting also hope you build on your characters background a deal more.

I will try and get things updated but as I am ahead here and behind in others I'm not so sure.

Also HB still waiting to see your level up.

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Sep 1, 2011)

Well an hour to get on the RG and change the XP there. *sigh*

And while I was there I noticed another

*CONGRATS* is in order* to Zerith for reaching 3rd Level*

must be my mostly playing Pathfinder that made me forget about the difference in XP. 

Level up quick before you are hog-tied. Maybe you can use a new ability against "The Mob"

HM


----------



## Axel (Sep 1, 2011)

Nice work guys/girls, and congratulations.  

Zerith, use colour spray before you get hog tied.  Guaranteed fun for all unconcerned and a wonderfully less-lethal way of dealing with hordes of moops.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Sep 1, 2011)

Color Spray? That might work on part of your average mob, but what if this mob is armed? Say with...

Fresh Fruit! 

Take comfort in this wonderful repository of knowledge. 

(Unfortunately, it's a lot less helpful if they come after you with pointed sticks...  )


----------



## Axel (Sep 1, 2011)

I take great comfort from a few things in the current situation.  Firstly, and most importantly, my character is not (yet...) involved and I can enjoy Lord Alexander getting grappled by 8x level 1 commoners.  Secondly, my character still has a move of 30'.  Thirdly, my character is neither lawful nor good and will have no compunctions about breaking laws and/or killing people to save his own skin if threatened.


----------



## HolyMan (Sep 1, 2011)

So your saying if a guy comes at you with a banana you are going to shout him? 

I think this may get interesting and complicated all at once.

HM


----------



## Axel (Sep 1, 2011)

If the banana looks like a hand crossbow then yes.  I mean...he's just got a shiny new crossbow of awesomeness (in Alden's opinion, anyway) that he's just itching to use.  Transposing the situation to the 21st century and he'd just bought a new hunting rifle (in the US, of course ) and ran into an angry mob outside it'd get used...surely?

More likely though, since crossbows suck for killing things according to the crunchy bits of D&D3.5, Alden will run away if confronted by a large mob.


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 1, 2011)

Backgrounds are always hard for me in general, but Ern especially because she is a criminal on the run. She would go into details, but at the cost of being arrested and thrown into jail to rot away?

Granted she would try to escape anyway.  Level up tonight after work.

EDIT: Level up complete.


[sblock=Level 4]
Level 4: Wizard level 4
BAB: +2
Saves: +1 Will
Incease Attribute: Intelegence
Skills: 9 pts: +1 to Spellcraft, Concentration, 6 Knowledge's(Arcana, Nature, Nobility, Religion, The Planes, History); .5 to Bluff (cc);
Languages: Learned Auran.
Spells /day :+1 1nd level spell, +1 2nd level spell
2 additional spells:Blockade, Invisibility
Added though Scrolls: Mount, Rope Trick
New Items: Lesser rod of Extend, Wand of Identify
HP: 3

[sblock=Blockade]Conjuration (Creation)
Level: Sorcerer/wizard 1
Components: V, S, M
Casting Time: 1 swift action
Range: 0 ft.
Effect:5-ft cube of wood
Duration: 3 rounds
Saving Throw: None
Spell Resistance: No

You call a cube of solid wood, 5 feet on a side, into being . The cube must be created upon solid ground in an empty square . If no solid surface exists that is large enough for the cube to fit on, or if no adjacent square is empty, the spell fails.

The cube weighs 2,000 pounds . It has a hardness of 5 and 600 hit points, and it completely fills one 5-foot square . Multiple cubes can be stacked . If it is pushed into water, the cube floats .

Material Component: A block of wood, less than 3 inches on a side Source: Complete Scoundrel
[/sblock]
[/sblock]


----------



## Zerith (Sep 2, 2011)

don't have time to make a post yet and I don't have access to any imfo on beguilers to know what I can or can't do at level 3 :/

This said Alexander has nothing ageist knocking out 'stupid ases' and there are 8 of them you say? I'll have to check the options later ^_^;
Also, how close are they to Alex about?


----------



## HolyMan (Sep 3, 2011)

I was waiting for a cloak casting of charm person. But since it seems he doesn't have the character class maybe this will help.

Beguiler

HM


----------



## Zerith (Sep 4, 2011)

... ...well, this is a slap across the face, when I made him I thought Beguilers were Int based and now this says their Cha based.  his spells have just dropped from +4 to +2... his hit dice, according to this, is d4 and not d6, so he should only have 5 or 6 hp.He only knows 3 level 1 spells, at level 3... and his skills pe level from class has dropped from 8 to 6.
 -_-


It also says he would not have light armor casting, is that page fully accurate? ;


----------



## Zerith (Sep 4, 2011)

ack, it did the wrong thing instead of editing >_<


----------



## Dragonwriter (Sep 4, 2011)

Zerith said:


> ... ...well, this is a slap across the face, when I made him I thought Beguilers were Int based and now this says their Cha based.  his spells have just dropped from +4 to +2... his hit dice, according to this, is d4 and not d6, so he should only have 5 or 6 hp.He only knows 3 level 1 spells, at level 3... and his skills pe level from class has dropped from 8 to 6.
> -_-
> 
> 
> It also says he would not have light armor casting, is that page fully accurate? ;




That wiki page is about as wrong as it can be. 

It has the correct spells (on a different page), but the actual class details are quite wrong. You've got d6 HD, light armor casting, trapfinding, INT-based casting, etc. And you know all spells on your (limited) list.

Let this be another reason why anyone should _never_ play a class if they don't have access to its book.  Causes too many problems with knowing what you can and cannot do.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 4, 2011)

out of state, so yesh, don't have access to any if my material outside of the inter webs ^_^;


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 4, 2011)

you need to practice your google fu young one. Anything can be found online.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 5, 2011)

yesh, and a natural one for my hp roll... damn... so yesh, i'll work on a real post when I get back, barbeque and all :3

Addon: took 1 hour and 40 minutes just to drive back to the hotel :s
oh yesh, he is getting Ventriloquism; he needs to talk through walls!


----------



## Axel (Sep 5, 2011)

Errr...methinks the rest of the village mob may be pissed at you for the colour spray...or any of them that pass their Will save.  Alden isn't there, but I daresay there are more than however many you can get in a 15' cone.  Well, Alexander never does anything by halves I guess.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 5, 2011)

and he is rather argent and over confident; what can mere pesents do to with stand his magic any ways? Also, if just a few are left, able to do any thing, they can have a time out nap!


----------



## Zerith (Sep 7, 2011)

Are those four in a 10' blast template of nighty night? :3


----------



## Axel (Sep 7, 2011)

As much as I love playing a character of loose morals that isn't tied to some rigid concept of "society", taking on an entire town at level 2/3 is not a particularly smart move...  Still, it's been fun, eh?


----------



## Zerith (Sep 7, 2011)

numbers don't really matter at this point Alex is forcing them to take Will saves and I'm mostly sure most have a will save of +0 will saves; about one quarter of them will make a will save Vs Alex and he will just keep on knocking them out of combat until either their all knocked out, he gets away, or they wise up and leave him be. And while he might not be able to take on the entire town at once, but then again that would only happen if he gave them warning, now every one has to run to an armory(or all the way home), arm themselves, confront Alex and charge him; the armory bottle necks their ability to rapidly respond while having to go home prevents them from rapidly forming into a militia.
Meanwhile Alex can take a trickaling of fodder for another 5 rounds without having to hurt anyone :3


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 7, 2011)

Wizards are good when they have the drop on someone. Now that they are fully aware of what you can do, I would expect the town guard to show up any second. And without any way to run/turn invisible/fly, your gonna have a fun fight.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 8, 2011)

Even more so when said wizard gets a stat bonus when he gets the drop on the angry mod :X

That said, light horse + obscuring mist. 

Also, Alexander is apparently very fast on his feet, er, butt :3

Addon: Axel it's 20 to fast mount, and it's a move action if you don't.
this said, if you fail at a fast mount, it's still just a move action; so it's always worth trying to fast mount ;3


----------



## Axel (Sep 9, 2011)

I knew the fast mount DC was 20.  I was more interested in the DC (and time requirements) to actually saddle a horse.  You see, horses don't wear their riding gear when they're in a stable...and that gear is pretty heavy and difficult to setup properly if you don't know what you're doing.

The alternative is to ride bareback (and Tio's going to rock at that with a -4 ACP...), which has a reasonably tough DC.

I have the germs of a Plan B forming in my head.  Will wait and see how we deal with the 4 goons first, because they need to be sidelined/killed before Plan B will work anyway.


----------



## Dragonwriter (Sep 9, 2011)

I just ran a search and found nothing about how long it takes to saddle a horse... I'm not totally surprised, seeing as they really couldn't fit rules for everything into the Core book. 

But I have watched my family members get horses ready for riding and it's a lengthy process, if you're trying to actually do it right. 

BTW, Axel, Ride in 3.5 doesn't have an ACP. For some reason, PF decided to add that. Riding bareback does still carry its little -5 penalty, though...


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Sep 9, 2011)

I would go along with the rules for donning half plate or full plate.  Something along those lines at least, without the need for two people.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 9, 2011)

@FtF
it would still need two creatures to don; the PC, in this case, is the  seconded creature and the horse is the one needing assistance. So  everything is statuesque there (I don't think their is any thing in the  rules preventing a horse from donning light armor, other then the common  sense of players and DM/GM and it being of too low of Intellect)

 @Axel 
Also, I (Alex for that matter) would think Alen would act sneaky; why do the frontal  assault/confrontation? he could instead act like he is chasing Alexander, the crazed wizard who has just gone rogue that he has been traveling with in case of this very possibility, until  he needs to act one way or the other, possibly avoiding conflict and slipping away, or giving himself a  advantage later by flanking them when they move into  melee with Alex. Also, neither of you two have a horse, you're assuming two are handy. meanwhile the town is panicked about a crazed wizard* and his Gnoll servant and likely overeager for skilled help, and even if they don't fall for the ruse the frontal option is still open ^_^;

[*could even have a lot of fun with this, this is a case were Alden can paint Alexander however he wants without lasting repercussions; Alex has given him a lot of room to work if he works outside of the box, but almost none if Alden works from within it like a fighter or barbarian who can do the whole "Hulk SMASH!" thing and just power through a mob instead of slipping through it.]

But that is just my two cents :3​


----------



## Axel (Sep 10, 2011)

Zerith, you've almost got my Plan B outlined already.  I have no intention of having Alden run away at present, unless everything falls to pieces...  Declaring martial law in the town to search for two mad wizards?  Yeah, maybe.  How many single digits in a row can I get with Bluff checks on a d20 anyway?  Must be due a natural 20 sooner or later.  

Besides which, if I read the initiative scores correctly Alden will be able to murder one of the guards (presuming I can hit it...) because it'll be flat-footed before it takes a turn.  That can be the punishment for not standing aside, and would hopefully lead to an increase in intimidate/bluff checks for taking command of the remaining three.  See, I'm not just a pretty face.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 10, 2011)

All four have to make a 15DC Will save or fall asleep before Alden dos any thing; he might not have to do a thing to them :3

Also, the Half-elf is not yet a reneged as far as the town knows, he is only missing ;3

Finally, Alexander is fallowing the Gnoll, mounted or not he can be  fallowed on foot (this said, he might rid around the Gnoll and just stay  in sight of it to avoid those trying to engage him) until he can get a  good idea on were the rest of the Gnolls, and their 'knife ears' is; at  that point he _will_ leave any one dismounted in his dust, that  said, the Gnoll could still be fallowed. A mount is not per say needed  :3


----------



## Axel (Sep 11, 2011)

Well, you do your thing with Alexander and I'll do mine with Alden.  Have a reasonable plan worked out now.  One of the best things about PbP is it gives you time to think!


----------



## Zerith (Sep 12, 2011)

so how did the civs do on their will test to avoid falling asleep?


----------



## Zerith (Sep 14, 2011)

oh? I thought he was already sleeping them, oh well, time to get to work on my next post then, Alexander is going to have fun her me thinks :3


----------



## Axel (Sep 15, 2011)

No doubt he will.  Reading his actions as an outsider he is borderline insane though...which may or may not be your attention.

I'd also add, Alden isn't a "sneaky" rogue.  Subtle maybe...but not the "I Hide in Shadows, then Move Silently and Backstab" type.  Besides, I intend to take a single level of Fighter at level 3.  Need 2 feats to reach a good potency level and can't be assed waiting till level 6.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 15, 2011)

let this sink in, I think that he is perfectly sane and that most of the things he dose is perfectly justifiable and, if I did not use him, I would have been using a character who I think _is_ insane.

who wants onto the chocolate train to candy mountain? :3


----------



## Dragonwriter (Sep 15, 2011)

Just because you think his actions are justified doesn't mean they actually are.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 15, 2011)

oh, I know that, that said I think you missed my point >;3


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## jackslate45 (Sep 15, 2011)

Aiding and abetting, assault on innocents, obstruction of justice, assault of a public official. Totally justified. Right...

EDIT: Although to be fair, Ern is probably guilty of this, plus alot more


----------



## Dragonwriter (Sep 15, 2011)

Zerith said:


> oh, I know that, that said I think you missed my point >;3




No, I understood your point perfectly well. The majority of your post, however, was emphasizing your point of view on Alex's actions being "justified".

Seriously, your own words



Zerith said:


> let this sink in, I think that he is perfectly sane and that most of the things he dose is perfectly justifiable and, if I did not use him, I would have been using a character who I think _is_ insane.
> 
> who wants onto the chocolate train to candy mountain? :3




are all about justifying your own actions, making the side claim you could have made an even bigger troublemaker. And the last line of that post seems ever more gleeful, concerning this assault on scared civilians.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 16, 2011)

was more talking about the whole borderline insane part: he is as close to sane as I've made, alot of the other character I was thinking off were, in my thinking, a bit iffy :3

Also, Alexander loathes being contained, they were scrambling to tie him up, this annoyed him greatly so he knocked the trouble makers out ^_^;

also, what did he do to be acusable of obstruction of justice?


----------



## Axel (Sep 16, 2011)

Let me be very clear up front:  Alexander can do whatever you think he could/should/would do in any given situation.  I have no issues with you playing your character how you think he should be played.  

Still, without the full knowledge of facts that only Alexander has (Alden hasn't seen your super secret orders...I don't open sblocks that aren't for me and Alexander never said what they were) his actions "today" come across as fairly insane.  

Let me summarise how the average man-in-the-street would see things.
-  By public knowledge, Alexander was brought in near-dead the day before.  Rumours about packs of Gnolls etc coming from the conversation Alexander, Alden and Tio had in the bar.
-  A gnoll (dog-man, but whatever) was captured.
-  Alexander rushed out into the street (like most everyone else) to see the gnoll.
-  Alexander made strange demands and began talking to himself, making faces and frightening small children.
-  Alexander casts a big flashy spell (no-one else with Spellcraft around to tell it was only level 1 and non-lethal in effect) and starts to escape with the captured gnoll.  
-  To add insult to injury the town mayor was taken out, along with who knows what else.

From anyone's POV except Alexander's, he is acting pretty weird.  Even Alden, who has a better grasp of the true facts than any other person involved thinks Alexander has gone off his rocker.  Not that he thought he was terribly sane to begin with, after the pink hair episode.  

Still, it's entertaining to be involved with.  As much as I hate Alexander he makes for an interesting game...


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## Zerith (Sep 16, 2011)

obstruction of justice implies he prevented, or acted to prevent, laws from being enforced, not that he broke them.


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 16, 2011)

You saved a persons life, who was headed to the chopping block,  by KOing the guard and mayor. Obstruction of Justice.


----------



## Zerith (Sep 16, 2011)

and what law was the Gnoll braking? unless the gnoll broke a law first there is no Obstruction of Justice


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## Axel (Sep 17, 2011)

Being a human-eating carnivore in close proximity to a village.  That's enough reason for me...


----------



## Zerith (Sep 18, 2011)

right... I forgot about that part ^_^;


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## Myth and Legend (Sep 19, 2011)

*knock knock* Hi there! Has it really been three years? Wow.. That would make Lora 21 years old  I hop she didn't have the young lord's babies or something


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## HolyMan (Sep 20, 2011)

I think it has been 3 weeks game time LOL. Glad to see you are well ML.

Also I am behind on XP and have been trying to do them off line as best as possible. I think I need to start keeping track as we go instead of going back over all the pages. 

In other news I keep getting a message that says* "Problem Loading Page" *with all my tabs here in EnWorld even though other sites - gmail, nfl, flickr they all load just fine.

Anyone else having troubles? Or should I look into a new laptop?

Anyways I am off the nest two days and will have all updating done as soon as I can. Now back to calculating XP.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter (Sep 20, 2011)

Yeah, funny how time works in-game. Especially PbP games. 

I'd see about cleaning extra and useless stuff off the computer before flat-out replacing it, HM. And I'm having no error messages.


----------



## Myth and Legend (Sep 20, 2011)

ENWorld is a bit slow for me as well. I think the server is overloaded. If all the other sites work fine for you the problem is not in your television set  You could try to go to Start->Run-> and write *cmd *(if you're using Win7 just write cmd in the little search bar in the start menu). In the black command prompt screen type: *ping www.еnworld.org -t* and see how many packets reach the server and how long it takes. Anything above 80-100 ms for a US resident means your internet is too slow or the EN server is bogged down. Losing packets can mean other things I'm not too sure what though.

I like how you take care of basically everything in a game, even the XP progression, and I do not want to get swamped like last time. So at most I'll host one game and rejoin OtW. What is the situation now? What's up with Lora? Should I just make a new character instead? (people didn't really like her last time )


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 20, 2011)

Short summery from Lora's POV:

All the irregulars left following Lora's defeat of the Hydra. Jareth left on a special assignment, came back bloodied but alive. He disappeared after that to find his half-sister.  Lord Alexander Ravensworth 4 appeared in camp, met with Dellex, and the pair of them left with only Dellex returning (the events in To Con a Con-Man starts from here)

Weeks go by, and Jareth returns with the other irregulars + 3: An elf who calls himself Ambassador, a second Elf who has yet to identify himself, and a human woman who seems to know the irregulars quite well only identified as Ern by the irregulars. they met with Vance and his brother, where it is revealed  that Jareth is now a Baron. They also said that Tharivol is dead, but they now have information that should be brought to the High King. 

Dellex demanded to speak to them alone, and shouts were heard from the room. Later, Dellex and The Bear left, and Vance and Lora came back in. 

I'll do Key To victory during lunch, but that is the gist of what happens at Vance's Manor


----------



## Myth and Legend (Sep 20, 2011)

Lol Jareth is a Baron. I hope he expects Dellex's backstab


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## Dragonwriter (Sep 20, 2011)

jackslate45 said:


> Short summery from Lora's POV:
> <snip>
> I'll do Key To victory during lunch, but that is the gist of what happens at Vance's Manor




Nice summary. 



Myth and Legend said:


> Lol Jareth is a Baron. I hope he expects Dellex's backstab




Oh, of course he does. There's no way he's going to let his guard down around Dellex.


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 20, 2011)

HM: try clearing you cache on your computer. Also try a location change if your having problems. Most McDonalds have free wii fi, and they don't block sites very well.


----------



## jackslate45 (Sep 20, 2011)

Below is a highly summarized account of K2V. Read at your own risk. 

[sblock]Key to victory (Events known only to those who were there)

Stuff happened. 


Oh, and they shut Dellex up for now, as of course he called bull crap on the story they spun. 
[/sblock]


I am sure I forgot something, so Dw, FtF, HM, ghostct, if you have anything to add, please do so. This is all from memory, so don't believe it until HM says Ok.


----------



## Axel (Sep 23, 2011)

Anyone else seen this?  http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/311900-all-who-holymages-many-games.html#post5689911


----------



## Zerith (Sep 25, 2011)

well, .


----------



## HolyMan (May 7, 2012)

A mention to see if any of the old players are interested in starting this back up.

 @Deskjob 
 @ghostcat 
 @Myth and Legend 
 @wysiwyg 
 [MENTION=84269]Erwinfoxjj[/MENTION]
 @Theroc 
 @Galphanore 
 @Frozen Messiah 
 @Dragonwriter 
 @Sphyh 
 @Gondsman 
 @Fangor the Fierce 
 @Scratched_back 
  [MENTION=93054]Sugar_Silk[/MENTION]
 @Lughart 
 @Aldern Foxglove 
 @jackslate45 
 @Spade 
 @Zerith 
 @Axel 
 @Herobizkit 
 @Megan Voss 

Think that is everyone.

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter (May 7, 2012)

Definitely. I have missed playing Jareth.

Good to have you back around, HM.


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## jackslate45 (May 7, 2012)

again, welcome back!  And yes, I would be interested.  Now I just need to re read all of Ern's past again


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 7, 2012)

Holy crap it's @HolyMan !!! Long time no see! 

I would *surely* like to continue this. But I would like to switch some feats around in Lora's build, having learned much about 3.5 Wizards since I started her.

Also, you and I need to discuss how effective of a character I can play and whether you are OK with players solving challenges like that. Because a level 5 Wizard is no longer easy pray for your average NPC Warrior 1 or Fighter 4 and she will always have an answer for every situation. Especially if Fallon or another NPC Wizards lets her copy spells from his spell-book.


----------



## Axel (May 7, 2012)

Holy Crap it's HM!  I thought you fell off a cliff or something unpleasant...

I'd consider getting back into your game, but would build a different character given the option (I have forgotten everything about Alden's motivations, personality etc).  Also have about 100% less spare time than previous, so will be posting daily at best.  Should still be manageable.


----------



## HolyMan (May 9, 2012)

Dragonwriter said:


> Definitely. I have missed playing Jareth.
> 
> Good to have you back around, HM.




I have missed DMing him.



jackslate45 said:


> again, welcome back!  And yes, I would be interested.  Now I just need to re read all of Ern's past again




Thanks for the welcome. Hopefully the story makes for a good read, it is one of my main goals.



Myth and Legend said:


> Holy crap it's @HolyMan !!! Long time no see!
> 
> I would *surely* like to continue this. But I would like to switch some feats around in Lora's build, having learned much about 3.5 Wizards since I started her.
> 
> Also, you and I need to discuss how effective of a character I can play and whether you are OK with players solving challenges like that. Because a level 5 Wizard is no longer easy pray for your average NPC Warrior 1 or Fighter 4 and she will always have an answer for every situation. Especially if Fallon or another NPC Wizards lets her copy spells from his spell-book.




Didn't I let you one shot a hydra?? How can you ask such a question. lol 

Let me know what it is you wish to change and will work on it.



Axel said:


> Holy Crap it's HM!  I thought you fell off a cliff or something unpleasant...
> 
> I'd consider getting back into your game, but would build a different character given the option (I have forgotten everything about Alden's motivations, personality etc).  Also have about 100% less spare time than previous, so will be posting daily at best.  Should still be manageable.




I would have rather have fallen off a cliff, can still type with broken legs not a broken PC. You may keep your current XP (might even give everyone a bonus for sticking with me) and apply them to a new character if you wish. Have fun coming up with a new concept, post them when your ready.

HM


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## Axel (May 9, 2012)

Hey, sometimes digital life > real life, right?    Glad to see you back in the saddle in any case.

I'll knock something together over the next week for a new character.  Likely an angry and unpopular Cleric of some god of war.  Let's see what my poor tired brain can come up with...  I take it you're keeping 3.5ed as a ruleset?


----------



## ghostcat (May 10, 2012)

Welcome back HolyMan. Missed this the first time. 

Trinham and Moggins are both eager to continue with their adventures.


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 10, 2012)

The good:

I remember everything I wrote about Lora, what she thought, what she said, her interraction with all the other PCs and NPCs.

I love her backstory and wish to develop her out of her protective shell of "be a bitch to everyone because you got raped when you were younger"

She is in a convenient place at the moment.

The Witchraft Domain I homebrewed and you approved.

The bad:

I would totally distribute my point buy differently. Namely, I'd get more Con and Dex and less Str.

I consider all my current feats a complete waste.

The ugly:

There are some Pcs that have 22k exp to Lora's 10k  How much have I missed?

So if you'd let me redistribute her stats and feats (nothing would change about her class/personality or be outwardly visible. Except that without Militia she won't be carrying a glaive any more) I'd be happy to resume her story.

Or I can retire her and roll a new character at whatever XP level you allow for rerolls. Perhaps her mentor, come to see what's become of her apprentice?

Are there any changes to the books allowed?


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## jackslate45 (May 10, 2012)

The biggest thing I would change is Ern's alignment. She is in no way lawful;  she is way more true neutral then I envisioned her. Everything else change is OK with me right now. 

I also will start expanding on her background more like requested. She has been keeping that close to the vest for obvious purposes (she* is *a criminal...) but I feel she trusts the group enough to start opening herself up.


----------



## Sugar_Silk (May 11, 2012)

Seems like fortune smiles on me! I just logged on today after a long and unplanned absence. If you will have me back, I'd love to play with you all again!


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (May 12, 2012)

HOLYMANCRAPOLA!  Welcome back HM!!!  As for Mal, you KNOW he's all up for continuing his transformation from a certain dragon's lackey to something a bit more terrifying.  Of course, he will continue to make his quips and off handed sarcastic remarks, but that's just his nature.

Looks like the gan's getting back together!

I too would have to look over Mal, as I would like to make sure he's progressing the right way.  I still have some emails saved about his progression path, so hopefully it's not too unfamiliar for you.

And if you REALLY feel like handing out free XP, I won't object...


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## Herobizkit (May 12, 2012)

I appreciate the invite, [MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION], but I believe I will step away from this one.  I vividly remember one particular PC being unpleasant and have no wish to rehash any encounter with that character.

Also, real life is keeping me busy.


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## HolyMan (May 14, 2012)

NP HB There is always a spot should you wish to join us. Good luck in all you do. 

To everyone else --  I have had a rough Mother's Day weekend as work was a killer. I go in again tonight but have the next two days off so will be posting up answers to questions, updated XP, etc. 

I have been doing a lot of reading of what went before and I am almost back into the mind set of where I wanted to go with this game (more on that tomorrow). 

Until then I wish to let everyone know that a little tweaking is total going to be allowed so look over your characters and post up the changes you would like to make and we will get set to restart playing.

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 14, 2012)

Game on!


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## HolyMan (May 15, 2012)

*Experience Update:*


```
Player                                           XP
Fangor the Fierce                              1,950
jackslate45                                    2,150
ghostcat                                       2,000
Myth and Legend                                1,750
Sugar_Silk                                     1,750
Dragonwriter                                   2,375
Axel                                           2,000
```

Congrats to those who have leveled up. And note I will still be using the same method for XP distribution but after we start it will be given out the first of every month instead of bi-weekly.

Notes:
I took and added in the XP that never got posted before my departure, that was earned by those still playing. I then took and gave everyone 250 XP per month of my absence to use as a base.

The totals in the RG have been changed and you may use these totals to apply to a new character or simply level up your old one if warranted. The XP totals have always gone to the players for playing. 

HM


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## HolyMan (May 15, 2012)

Myth and Legend said:


> The good:
> 
> I remember everything I wrote about Lora, what she thought, what she said, her interraction with all the other PCs and NPCs.
> 
> ...




Do a new write up for Lora's crunch and post it up. I'm not to worried about all that as I am about spells and equipment. Please do the write up using her current spells and equipment and then I will allow for her to gain more spells from her time studying with Skazul.

XP difference will not make a big difference in the game the RP is the thing. 



jackslate45 said:


> The biggest thing I would change is Ern's alignment. She is in no way lawful;  she is way more true neutral then I envisioned her. Everything else change is OK with me right now.
> 
> I also will start expanding on her background more like requested. She has been keeping that close to the vest for obvious purposes (she* is *a criminal...) but I feel she trusts the group enough to start opening herself up.




Sounds good please pm me any background you don't wish to post on your character sheet.



Sugar_Silk said:


> Seems like fortune smiles on me! I just logged on today after a long and unplanned absence. If you will have me back, I'd love to play with you all again!




NP with having another player and character. The group needs a skill monkey if you think Darling is up for it.

HM


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## HolyMan (May 15, 2012)

Please post when you are finished renewing your characters and/or leveling up. 

Also any source is pretty much allowed - I just like to have final say on some odd things I'm not quite sure about. That reminds me that you may also use feats,spells and such from Pathfinder.

Off the top of my head a good feat for Darling might be Deadly Aim as it would add some damage to her darts. 

I think I will be ready next week as all my re-reading is done.

HM


----------



## Axel (May 15, 2012)

Cheers HM.  I'll put some pen to paper (finger to keyboard?) and come up with something postable by tomorrow night.


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## HolyMan (May 15, 2012)

Have fun. 

HM


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## ghostcat (May 16, 2012)

Checked over Trinham and I can't think of anything I'd like to change. Unless I can be really cheeky and take the pathfinder version of the *Toughness* feat


----------



## Myth and Legend (May 16, 2012)

Made a post from Lora's pov.

Leveled her up to level 5.

Changed the 35 PB around.
Changed feats around, took two non-core feats (provided links for those).
Took an ACF called Spontaneous Divination
Updated list of spells known and prepared.
Recalculated HP for 16 Con.

I so want to be level 7 like Trinham 

HM: We need to discuss what spells she will get access to. This will greatly determine how powerful she is, both in combat and for utility. Also, it will determine the power of her feat that allows for 1 slot per day of spontaneous casting. Purchasing the option to buy spells from a willing Wizard can be seen here.



> In most cases, wizards charge a fee for the privilege of copying spells  from their spellbooks. This fee is usually equal to the spell’s level ×  50 gp.




Also, in the Wizard entry, we get:



> At any time, a wizard can also add spells found in other wizards’ spellbooks to her own.




She greatly needs utility spells and a few more options in combat. Also party buffs. Do I ask for spells or do you tell me what is available from Fallon?

Any other NPC Wizard who would allow her to copy spells around?


----------



## HolyMan (May 16, 2012)

ghostcat said:


> Checked over Trinham and I can't think of anything I'd like to change. Unless I can be really cheeky and take the pathfinder version of the *Toughness* feat




Actually I like that feat (PFs) over the other. So I would like to switch the fluff for Toughness to the PF version.



Myth and Legend said:


> Made a post from Lora's pov.
> 
> Leveled her up to level 5.
> 
> ...




Only wizard needed is Skazul. His study is full of spells and incantations. The only thing that Lora had to worry about was time and money.

In the study you may find any spell you wish of any level. I put the cluttered mess in there just for that purpose. Now you need to decide what spells Lora would go looking for, as I will forgo the "fee" as you are under your WBL anyway. 

But time is the key here. It has been a couple weeks but I don't think Vance would allow here to stay cooped up in the library the whole time, and I'm sure a day of riding or relaxing at the inn would help to clear Lora's head.

You can copy one spell a day after studying it (forgoing the spellcraft check since Skazul will be on hand), let's say Lora had 13 days to gain 13 new spells of any level. Just remember that your spellbook can only hold so many in case you want a bunch of 9th level spells. 

Also I have read the new feats and are ok with them.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (May 18, 2012)

HM - Now that you opened up some options, Mal has decisions to make.  When are you looking to have all changes approved/completed by?


----------



## HolyMan (May 18, 2012)

I think Lora, Trinham, and Darling are all done. Everyone just let me know when you are ready and list your changes.

I'm not so worried about the crunch as I am the characters so when everyone has had time to look over and change what they want I will be ready to start.

Hoping for the first of the month (two weeks).

HM


----------



## Dragonwriter (May 18, 2012)

No changes to Jareth. Still just as I wanted him to be. 

And I spent some time reviewing the threads and am extremely eager to get back to playing him and seeing where his story goes.


----------



## ghostcat (May 19, 2012)

HM. Trinham is not quite done.

I want to change the _Mind over Body_ feat for the Pathfinder _Toughness_ feat. This should give him 7 more much needed Hit Points.

Will try to do this over the weekend but we have family over at the moment.

*EDIT:* Changes added to RG


----------



## jackslate45 (May 20, 2012)

i will try to get my background for you.  my project that is due monday should be done tomorrow, and as a reward for working the weekend my boss is going to let me get out early one of these days.

I had one almost done, but as I re read it it started to sound a lot like Lora's on accident.


----------



## HolyMan (May 21, 2012)

ghostcat said:


> HM. Trinham is not quite done.
> 
> I want to change the _Mind over Body_ feat for the Pathfinder _Toughness_ feat. This should give him 7 more much needed Hit Points.
> 
> ...




All approved.



jackslate45 said:


> i will try to get my background for you.  my project that is due monday should be done tomorrow, and as a reward for working the weekend my boss is going to let me get out early one of these days.
> 
> I had one almost done, but as I re read it it started to sound a lot like Lora's on accident.




Two Loras' --- say it ain't sooooooooooooooooooooooooo..... 

_______________________________________________

O.k. a little recap as to my thinking some short 6+ months ago.

I was talking about Jareth's barony needing to be roused and the much needed weapons and men there brought to Siere. Well that was me trying to set up a side adventure for the lower level party members after To Con the Conman. 

Seeing as how those characters are not returning to the forefront that can be played off as Jareth sending some of Vance's Purple Rose knights.

I wish to start up the game with a little RP as the group[ sits down to recap the events and try and piece together a few of the clues. Just to get me and everyone up to speed and re-introduce Darling as well.

So far the "council" will be...

Jareth -ready to go
Lora - all changes approved - still need spells gained through study/copying
Trinham - ready to go (toe to toe with the big dogs now j/k)
Mal - needs to make approved changes in the RG
Ern - ready to go - save for background which can be worked on/learned during the game
Darling - ready to go - will be brought to the manor with everyone's favorite dwarf Martomum
Unknown PC - Axel's character to be brought "on board" once I figure out how he plays into all this 

*NPCs*

Sil  - elven(Treylor) ambassador and insightful fellow
Vance - human knight 
Martomum  - dwarf of many talents but no linguist 

If you all are ready I think I can make an IC post as soon as WED 

 @Axel  all I really need is a description/rough occupation to work with and maybe you could be introduced along with Darling

HM


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 21, 2012)

I can be ready WED and will have Mal updated this evening.


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## jackslate45 (May 21, 2012)

I'll be ready.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 22, 2012)

Uh, was there some rule about rolling a 1 on HP?


----------



## HolyMan (May 22, 2012)

I think it's the class or something. Ask ghostcat, I think he rolls only 1's for his HP too.

Sorry the dice gods knew you took that class for the spells and not the HP 

HM


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## jackslate45 (May 22, 2012)

I just think it's rolling for HP that's cursed. In all my games where I roll, I normally get 1's and 2's. I think Ern had my first 3.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (May 22, 2012)

Oh well, looks like he's still pretty decent on HP now.  He's updated and ready to go!


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## HolyMan (May 24, 2012)

And so it begins...

Again

HM


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## Axel (May 25, 2012)

Sorry HM (and the rest).  Between a sudden fieldwork posting, my laptop dieing (though it is/was 8 years old, so not before time), and the company firewall (which includes company laptops these days...) excluding enworld I have been unable to put together my PC in time.

He did exist, but is now lost forever with my poor old machine.  I will see what I can do by the end of the coming weekend.  Very brief synopsis:

Rodric, Human Cleric of Tor (level 3).

A member of a mercenary group since an adolescent he has recently lost all but 2-3 of his colleagues in an ambush.  Tor being the god of war and destruction, most mercenary groups have at least 1 or 2 priests to see to battlefield medic duties, spiritual leadership etc.

Not knowing what else to do, he leads the survivors to Bear's Camp.


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## Sugar_Silk (May 25, 2012)

Jareth is a baron?  O.O  Oh man, I missed more than I thought! Guess I better get reading. See you in game soon!


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## HolyMan (May 26, 2012)

Will be putting both your characters in soon. They both will be with Martomum as he enters the manor.

He has scouted out both of you and asked that you accompany him to meet some friends of his.

Martomum knows the group has a particular lack of both of your abilities so he wants to help.

I will probably do all this tomorrow night, was waiting on a post from ML.
Long as you have descriptions and personalities we should be good.

HM


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## Axel (May 26, 2012)

Understood.  Here's what I've pieced together in about half an hour.  Very sorry for sketchy detail...


Rodric

[sblock=Game Info]
Race: Human
Class: Cleric
Level: 3
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Languages: Common
Deity: Tor
[/sblock]
[sblock=Abilities]
STR: 15 +2
DEX: 10 +0
CON: 12 +1
INT: 10 +0
WIS: 16 +3 
CHA: 14 +2
[/sblock]
[sblock=Combat]
HP: TBD 
AC: 16
AC Touch: 10 = 10 + 0 (DEX)
AC Flatfooted: 16 = 10 + 4 (armor) + 2 (shield) 
INIT: +0 = +0 (DEX)
BAB: +2 = +2 (Cleric)
Fort: +4 = +3 (base) + 1 (CON)
Reflex: +1 = +1 (base) + 0 (DEX)
Will: +6 = +3 (base) + 3 (WIS)
Speed: 30'
Damage Reduction: none
Spell Resistance: none

[/sblock]
[sblock=Weapon Stats]
Long Sword(melee): +5 = +2 (BAB) + 2 (STR) + 1 (FEAT)/DMG:1d8+2(P),CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(melee): +4 = +2 (BAB) + 2 (STR)/DMG:1d4+2(PorS),CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(range): +2 = +2 (BAB) + 0 (DEX)/DMG:1d4+2(PorS),CRIT:19-20x2,RANGE: 10'


Destruction Domain:  Smite, 1/day.  Gain +4 to hit, + cleric level in damage with a single melee attack.  Declare before use.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Racial Traits]
Size - Meduim
Speed - 30'
1 extra feat at first LvL
+4 skill points at first LvL, +1 skill point every LvL after first
Bonus Languages: Any
Favored Class: Any
[/sblock]
[sblock=Class Features]
Divine Spellcasting - Spontaneous Cure Spells (No Chaotic spells)
Domains (War, Destruction) 
Turn Undead 5 times/day
Moderate Lawful Aura
[/sblock]
[sblock=Feats & Tricks]
Prof. with all simple weapons
Armor Prof. - Heavy, all shields except tower shields
Martial Weapon Proficiency - Longsword (War domain)
Weapon Focus - Longsword (War domain)
Power Attack (LvL1)
Extend Spell (human)
Alertness (houserule)
Divine Metamagic - Extend Spell (LvL3)


[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]

TBD!!!!!!
Skill Ranks: 28 = [4 (class) + 0 (INT)] x 4 (LvL1) + 4 (human) + 8 (level 2,3)
Max Ranks: 7/3 ACP: -4


```
[U]Total   Skill            Ability  Rank Misc Misc  ACP  Stat[/U]
+?  =   Appraise            +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Balance             +0    +?    +0   +0   +0    DEX      
+?  =   Bluff               +2    +?    +0   +0   --    CHA
+?  =   Climb               +2    +?    +0   +0   +0    STR
+?  = ()Concentration       +1    +?    +0   +0   --    CON
+?  = ()Craft:              +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Decipher Script^    +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  = ()Diplomacy           +2    +?    +4   +0   --    CHA
+?  =   Disable Device^     +0    +?    +0   +0   --    DEX
+? =   Disguise            +2    +?    +2   +0   --    CHA
+?  =   Escape Artist       +0    +?    +0   +0   +0    DEX
+? =   Forgery             +0    +?    +2   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Gather Information  +2    +?    +0   +0   --    CHA
+?  =   Handle Animal^      +2    +?    +0   +0   --    CHA
+?  = ()Heal                +3    +?    +0   +0   --    WIS
+?  =   Hide                +0    +?    +0   +0   +0    DEX
+?  =   Intimidate          +2    +?    +2  +0   --    CHA
+?  =   Jump                +2    +?    +0   +0   +0    STR
+?  = ()Knowledge:Arcana^   +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Knowledge:Arch&Engn^+0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Knowledge:Dungeons^ +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Knowledge:Geography^+0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  = ()Knowledge:History^  +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Knowledge:Local^    +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Knowledge:Nature^   +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Knowledge:Nobility^ +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  = ()Knowledge:Religion^ +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  = ()Knowledge:Planes^   +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Listen              +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Move Silently       +0    +?    +0   +0   --    DEX
+?  =   Open Locks^         +0    +?    +0   +0   --    DEX
+?  =   Perform             +3    +?    +0   +0   --    CHA
+?  = ()Profession^         +3    +?    +0   +0   --    WIS
+?  =   Ride                +0    +?    +0   +0   --    DEX
+?  =   Sense Motive        +3    +?    +0   +0   --    WIS
+?  =   Sleight of Hand^    +0    +?    +2   +0   +0    DEX
n/a =   Speak Language^     n/a   +0    n/a  n/a  n/a   n/a
+?  = ()Spellcraft^         +0    +?    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  =   Spot                +3    +?    +0   +0   --    WIS
+?  =   Survival            +3    +?    +0   +0   --    WIS
+?  =   Swim                +2    +?    +0   +0   +0*   STR
+?  =   Tumble^             +0    +?    +0   +0   +0    DEX
+?  =   Use Magic Device^   +3    +?    +0   +0   --    CHA
+?  =   Use Rope            +0    +?    +0   +0   --    DEX
```
() = class skill
^ = trained only
* = double ACP
[/sblock]

[sblock=Equipment]

```
[U]Item(location)                  Cost   Weight[/U]
Traveler's Outfit(worn)         free     0lb
Scale Mail(worn)            50gp    30lb
Heavy wooden shield (worn, on back)  7 gp  10lb
Long sword                     10gp     2lb 
(worn in scabbard on belt)
Dagger(worn in scabbard on belt)        2gp     1lb
Backpack   			 2gp     2lb
Water skin(in backpack)          1gp     4lb
Bedroll(in backpack)             1sp     5lb
FlintandSteel(in backpack)       1gp     ---
12 days rations                   1.2gp     12lb
Whetstone
```
 
*Treasure:* 29gp, 9sp, 0cp Gems:

Total weight carried: 23 (light)

Carrying Capacity:
Light: 00-66lbs
Medium: 67-133lbs
Heavy: 134-200lbs
Lift Over Head: 200lbs
Lift Off Ground: 400lbs
Push/Drag: 1000lbs
[/sblock]

[sblock=Personal Details]
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 183 lbs
Hair Colour: Black
Eye Colour: Brown
Skin Colour: Tanned and weatherbeaten

Appearance: Solid looking, shaved head, mustache with no beard.  Always carries his head high and shoulders back.  Tattoos of various places visited (whether invited or otherwise) across both arms - working on a full sleeve.

Missing little finger on his left hand.  Wears a red woolen cap into every battle, claiming it gives him luck.

Demeanor: Confident, prone to solve problems with violence, racist with varying degrees of severity to all non-humans.[/sblock] 
[sblock=Background]
WIP
[/sblock]
[sblock=Adventure Log]
[/sblock]
[sblock=Level Ups] 

[/sblock]


----------



## Axel (May 26, 2012)

So, I figured some details on the priests of Tor are warranted as well.  

Tor, True Neutral.  
Domains:  War, Destruction, Strength, Death

Tor is the patron deity of those that fight for money, not love.  He is also worshiped by those that enjoy fighting.  He is the twin brother of Arcos, patron deity of those that fight for love, family and honour.  Of the two, Tor is the better warrior - though he wins through any means available.  

Few people follow Tor, as he is an uncaring and unforgiving god - as any battle is.  Most of his devotees are professional warriors, such as mercenaries and gladiators.  Many larger mercenary groups have a small cadre of priests accompany them to serve as spiritual leaders, battlefield medics and offer wiser counsel on orders of battle and tactics than is oft heard from the common men.

Tor's symbol is a black raven.  He has no formal church structure, and generally no permanent place of worship - being greatly unpopular  and viewed as a harbringer of death and destruction among the general populace.  Small, untended shrines can be found in places where professional soldiers and warriors gather and train.


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## HolyMan (May 27, 2012)

Will do a character check soon. Till then I gave you a small intro into the game. So you can at least get a feel for how you wish to RP him.

HM


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## Zerith (May 27, 2012)

... None tells me anythings! T_T
Anyways, I think I kinda butchered Alexander's character: he ended up as a cliché blunt, hot head with more power then he knows what to do with and an ego to match, instead of being a scheming manipulator who sees everything and one as chess pieces to be moved about while suffering from a superiority complex and gnawing need to fulfill shoes that he can never fulfill to himself or those he places any value in.... while also having a large ego that he veils.

I’ve been kicking myself over how I’ve handled the character since the hiatus :/

As it stands I’m pondering leaving him to the scrapy heap.


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 27, 2012)

Alexander can be left to the 'scrap heap' and you could simply recreate a new character to replace him.  I am sure HM wouldn't mind doing that, since there are at least two characters that will be coming into the campaign as lower level.


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## Deskjob (May 27, 2012)

*Summer Time in Cali*

*Deskjob*

Hey hey, it looks like HM made it back.  Wow.  I think it was September when I last logged on EnWorld too.  Missed every minute.  But it's summer time now and I am once again available.  Nice.

I'd love to start RP'ing with you guys and gals again.  Don't wait for me either.  It will take me a week to get back into things.  Let alone posting again.

Welcome back HM.  I can start a new Fighter dude or try and pick up with one of the dudes I flaked out on.  What do you prefer as GM?  I am a good writer but a sucky numbers and tactics guy.

I am currently available everyday until the end of July.  Thanks guys.


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## Sugar_Silk (May 27, 2012)

Yay! Darling finally gets to meet everyone! I hope you're all okay with her flirting, that's kinda what she's all about. I can always tone it down a bit. I am excited to see how all your characters feel about her!


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## HolyMan (May 28, 2012)

Zerith said:


> As it stands I’m pondering leaving him to the scrapy heap.




FtF has it right you may opt to change characters but will be allowed to keep your currently earned XP. 



Deskjob said:


> *Deskjob*
> 
> Hey hey, it looks like HM made it back.  Wow.  I think it was September when I last logged on EnWorld too.  Missed every minute.  But it's summer time now and I am once again available.  Nice.
> 
> ...




As above you may make a new character or keep your latest one at the current XP you have earned. 

Hope this finds you well - and thanks for the message on my profile - can't wait to do some RPing myself.



Sugar_Silk said:


> Yay! Darling finally gets to meet everyone! <snip>
> I am excited to see how all your characters feel about her!





As am I. Especially Lora whom I think would be her polar opposite.


HM


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## Zerith (May 28, 2012)

As it stands I’m pondering a shapeshifter, but not a spellcaster[druid].
The two paths I’m thinking of using to reach this is to either take a shapshifting and trading out the spells for other bonuses, or just use a Were[something]
[I pondered using wildshape over shapeshifting but, but it’s a lil broken in my book… ignore phys stats become a perfect warrior...]

Shapshifting :
-Pros:
--Can change forms as a swift action
--New, stronger, forms unlocked at higher levels
--Natural weapons gain a level dependent enchantment bonus
--Versatility; Highly mobile
--Forms gain free feats
--druid passive abilities
--X factor from magic trade off.
-Cons:
--all magic items affectively turn off[Likely do to being tailored to work in consent with magic abilities]
---could be bypassed by simply staying in any given for and then equip items, but removes the versatility of being able to change forms at will while also removing the character’s voice.
----wilding claps could allow use of enchanted (none armor/weapon) items in predator and aerial forms.
--Linear character advancement
--Cannot use metal armor? (this one is mute to me ^_^; )
Were[Something]:
-Pros:
--Can use all equipment, including weapons, in hybrid form without penalty or wilding claps
--Augments base form (+2 wise and 
--Provides bonus feats[iron will if none lese]
--has damage reduction
--numerous special qualities.
-Cons
--X levels of animal levels
--A level adjustment of 2 or 3
--predetermines initial feats
--If the Were type gives a bonus feat in addition to iron will then it also neutralizes the bonus feat from being human, making human weres of that kind weaker then others.

Given that I have the exp of a level 3 character to work with, and that if I made a Were character I would want it to use a werecheetah (yeash, I really like cats, cheetahs in particular ^_^; ) ECL 6, I’m leaning towards the shifter and doing trades for the druidly magic.

So, I’m wondering: could the druidly magic be traded for any of the fallowing, in order of preference:
Drift, as per the Geomancer class(perhaps looping after level 10?)
The ability to utilize the enchantment bonus from magic items while shapeshifted.
Something not listed?
Increased HP dice(d10/d12)
Full BAB
Something not listed that is more bland then HP or BAB ^_^;


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## Deskjob (May 28, 2012)

*Deskjob*

Thanks HM.  I'll roll a new character in the rogues gallery and let you look it over whenever you would like.  And since I already have a slot for Marko and his level ups, I'll just delete him and plug in the new guy in his stead.  Level 1 Fighter coming right up.  _(Min-Max'rs, ready your facepalms.)_

Truth.  Given that it has been years since I Rp'ed in this campaign.  I feel a new character and I would share a similar perspective.  Feeling 'new'.  Haha.  Thanks for letting a goof like me Rp with ya.  Appreciate it.  Hope to be making fun memories with everybody soon.  

___

HM, I could use your imput on giving my new PC a deity and a second language.  Do you have any preferences or ideas?  Thanks.


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## Sugar_Silk (May 28, 2012)

Darling is probably a bit too soft contribute much in combat, but she can help with bluffs and disguises and what not. Maybe she could shack up with the fake ambassador and the rumors would naturally draw enemies off the trail. Dellex would be angry, but at least he wouldn't question where the ambassador had gone. Nobody would want to interrupt them for a while and it would be some time before the truth was discovered. A day or two head start for the true adventurers. What do you guys think? Who will stay and who will go?


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## HolyMan (May 29, 2012)

Looking into that myself. I want to create two off-shot games and break this nine person group up into 5 and 4. 

I'm not sure how you all wish to do this.

Group A leaves pretending to take the ambassador with them saying they believe they can reach Siere faster and thus ran off. While Group B who has the real ambassador hides him in the wagon and marches with the army.

Or Group A leaves with the ambassador but doesn't tell anyone, and Group B who is with the army has the decoy hidin' in the wagon but has to keep Dellex and his cronies (and any other spies) off the fact he isn't the real McCoy.

Ideas please. 

HM


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## Zerith (May 29, 2012)

would like an answer to the above question HM :/

This said, the RP has segmented and rejoined in the past, no reason not to do so now ;3
as for courses of action, there is the two you noticed, and I'll add two  that work off being sneaky. (I will need to read back up to current  though ^_^; )

Their is a spy that you know of: assuming the spy in unaware that you  know this, tell the spy, perhaps even the army at large, that the VIP is  going ahead in group A(and the VIP is) while allowing the spy to  'cleverly notice' a fake being ushered into a wagon in the armor, and  guard said wagon with group B.

 the spy will think group A, with the real VIP, is a decoy.

You can also pull this basic idea off with the other idea of letting the spy find misinformation  ;3


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## HolyMan (May 29, 2012)

Deskjob said:


> ___
> 
> HM, I could use your imput on giving my new PC a deity and a second language.  Do you have any preferences or ideas?  Thanks.




Elf is not allowed as a language choice save in extreme cases. Better since you are a tradesman would be Fanic (Something I just made up) since the Fanshaw traders speak this in their country.

Also what about the deity you made up for Marko. Cambi

Everyone remember this is a sanbox style game that belongs to all of us.

________________________________________

Zerith - sorry but I don't read your post without all my books close by.  And sometimes I steal some wifi from work to post up quick tidbits.

If you wish for your character to contract lycanthrope then let me know and I will arrange it.

HM


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## Deskjob (May 29, 2012)

*Deskjob*

_@HM:_
Fanic it is.  Lol.  And yes, I totally forgot about that Deity I helped make up.  I'll add that now.  Thanks a million.  

Plop.  Okay, he looks all done to me now.  Hit me back with a quick review whenever you have time.  I'll shack up in character que and be ready whenever you need me.  Hugs and kisses.


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## Zerith (May 29, 2012)

... Hmmmm, just read up on the RP, and now, i'm considering making a  half-dragon half-kobold (using a races of the dragon rule that lets you  buy into half-dragon) since there is already a copper dragon as a player in the  story, and I still want to make a 'coppery' character >;3

this said, I'm planing on trading a class figure for nimbus of light,  and being a half copper dragon, he would be blatantly metallic dragon.
brainless NPC "it's a kobold, kill it!"
NPC with functional brain: *whomps Brainlessless NPC on the head* "It's copper and has a bloodly halo!"

... ok, I just want a character who can 'logically' cause mischief and then, literally, wear a halo while attempting to look like a, innocent, little angel


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## jackslate45 (May 29, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> Looking into that myself. I want to create two off-shot games and break this nine person group up into 5 and 4.
> 
> I'm not sure how you all wish to do this.
> 
> ...




I personally like option one. The ambassador is protected by an army, and the traveling group takes the crown with them. That way, we have a trump card in hiding.


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## Sugar_Silk (May 29, 2012)

I like the second option.



HolyMan said:


> Group A leaves with the ambassador but doesn't tell anyone, and Group B who is with the army has the decoy hidin' in the wagon but has to keep Dellex and his cronies (and any other spies) off the fact he isn't the real McCoy.




The army only offers protection against overt foes. Assassins and the like could simply throw on a soldier's garb and blend right in. It is probably much safer for him disguised and on the road while we draw attention to the decoy.

Would Darling's wagon still be operational? It was a little rolling love nest where she offered entertainment to the troops. Nothing spreads quite like a scandalous secret, right? With soldiers stopping by often, all we would have to do is let a few of them see an elf and some fine robes on the floor, and word would spread... but it would be safe, because the higher-ups would not want to be seen paying a personal visit. Plus, it would be a comfy place for us to talk and get to know each other! With all the comings and goings, it would even be a good place to make the switch! 

That is my idea and my vote, but I by no means want to railroad the game. How do the rest of you guys feel about our options?


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## Deskjob (May 29, 2012)

Sugar_Silk said:


> ...It was a little rolling love nest where she offered entertainment to the troops.




This idea is full of win and ridiculousness.  Extended rest?  ...Yes please!  And the dwarf too!??

...

Eh?  Sure, why not.


----------



## ghostcat (May 30, 2012)

The problem is that Lora, Darling and Roderick don't know about the crown and the others are operating a "Need to Know" system, so will be reluctant to tell them. 

To my mind the original group will want to stay with both the Ambassador and the crown. Also, I don't believe that Dellex will be taken in by a plan where Jareth isn't with the ambassador. 

Anyway, I prefer plan B. As others have said, an army may provide protection against an overt attack but with all the people around it will easy for a small covert force to hide in plain sight.

Trinham will be disappointed that he doesn't get to spend some time in Darling's love next


----------



## Zerith (May 30, 2012)

Allright, right now I'm toying around with the idea of a CG half copper kobold who is using the dragonic racial class (would start out with 2 of the 3 LA from half-dragon and have abilities comparable  to 2/3 pf a half-dragons)
And I'm thinking of making him be a kobold fighter for the first few[4] levels: i like the idea of a kobold with 20 base str  at 'level' 4 while also having exceptional general stats ;3
[20str 18con 16dex 16int 10wis 16cha at level 4, ECL 7, yes, high stats and a kobold XD]

But I'm wondering about a few possible trades:
Spear focus for natural weapon focus(bite, claw and possibly tail)

Dodge for Improved natural armor (or the like)

Martial weapon training for Dragon tail

Simple weapon training for Nimbus of Light

light armor for clinging breath

Ridding for knowledge arcane


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (May 30, 2012)

Isn't a half-dragon kobold a bit 'abnormal' compared to the rest?  I know we had a tough time even going with a half elf character, as we all were human and for a reason.  I'm just not sure a kobold would have the effect or balance that we are all facing as a group.  Then again, that's just my opinion.


----------



## jackslate45 (May 30, 2012)

That also sounds WAY to optimized. It sounds way too much like Pun-Pun, which is just not cool. 

I could easily have gone Wiz3/Master Specialist 10 Malconvoker 5/Archmage 2, but that breaks the point of this game.  HM is weaving a story, not so much max tier optimization. Leave that to other games.


----------



## Deskjob (May 30, 2012)

_[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]_

A half-dragon/half-kobold would make for an excellent enemy in this campaign.  I think all of of us would love to kill that beasty all day.  But...  Not'a so much'a an excellent traveling companion in a human task-force.

And no.  I'm not even talking about the language barriers, the culture barriers, the race cards, the shock/awe factors, the lack of bathing, reproduction concerns, political ramifications, alignment shifts, or the constant feeling of paranoia amongst all party members.  ...We kind of already have all of those in abundance.  Haha.

I'm just talking about the stabby-stabby.  We love you.  Your awesome.  Please don't go through with it.


----------



## HolyMan (May 30, 2012)

Character gene clearly states all characters are to be human. Now should you want to be polymorped into a kobold that can be arranged. 

HM


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## Zerith (May 31, 2012)

@jackslate45 
if I was going for optimized, nimbus would be a big fat nuuu! also, a long spear would be too good: spring attack.
it lets you ignore the enemy's AoO and then attack while you runaway: add in something like dash or sprinter and you walk over 30' per move and can move around even a slight train feature to prevent most foes from being able to attack you on the fallowing turn even after they get past your reach.

if you mean the trade for tail: if I went human the character could get tail without any trade while keeping wings, he would also have the same overall stats without using kobold fighter levels to make up 4 of them. and then I could use the trade for something nice and fluffy.

If you mean the breath feat: untill level 6, ECL 9, the breath attack can be used once per day, (this said, since the ability can be applied several times with the cost of adding 1 round to the cooldown time, I think a limit of 2 would be plenty until he picks up the needed feat)

Also, with 1d10 hp at ECL 3-4 he is not exactly strong given he is a melee fighter, and the missing 3d10 don't exactly help him long term either.

 @Deskjob 
Interestingly, kobolds have an extensive history of trade with humans, and other races, their just normally glamored while doing so. ;3
Fact is they could be trading extensively with 'the humans' right now: a war is on and arms, and their components, namely steel, are in high demand.
They generals 'like' humans more then elves ;3

 @HolyMan 
Right... that... ^_^;
Honestly, I just forgot because I've had this RP out of mind for a while 
Also, I get overly exited readily, and I noticed 'hmm, a copper dragon is already established... what can I do with that...'
hmmm, I could still work with the half-dragon idea, just using a human base.
additionally, why get polymorphed into a kobold? why not something truly silly and random like a kangaroo rat?

.. I still want a to make a kangaroo rat caster though... a fire ball is pea sized until it hits something and the idea of a mouse sized animal making a big effort to spit out a bead of fire that lazly flys through the air and then having the lil speck of fire blow up a room is Hilarius  to me ;3

hmm, more things to think on :3

addon:
[MENTION=17100]Fangor the Fierce[/MENTION]
Woops, knew I was forgetting something ^_^;

I tend to prefer none standard characters who are physically dissimilar from myself. I RP to put myslef, through my characters, into a world I could never experience. I'm a tall guy, so an easy way for me to start to do this is to make the character be shory, the shorter the better, Kobolds are 2'-2'5" on aerage, even if I made a freakishly 'large' kobold the character would still have a greatly different point of view from me just from being much shorter.

makes things as simple as siting down more intresting, to me at least, while I could just sit down and scoot, the character sould have to do things  in another way that I must think of but is natural for them.
because of this out look of mine I lean heavy towards more exotic character concepts; the more nonestandard the better in my book ;3


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## Deskjob (May 31, 2012)

^

This post is made of win.


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## HolyMan (May 31, 2012)

Deskjob said:


> ^
> 
> This post is made of win.




Did you forget the "d" at the end of that statement? 

HM


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## jackslate45 (May 31, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> Did you forget the "d" at the end of that statement?
> 
> HM



Not just win, but winning?

[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pipTwjwrQYQ]CHARLIE SHEEN - WINNING - YouTube[/ame]


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## Sugar_Silk (May 31, 2012)

What if your Human character just has a mental illness that make him THINK he's a kobold? 

The elves kill humans on sight in this world, and find the mere existence of one half-elf invasion-worthy. I honestly don't mind one way or the other as long as we have fun... but I think you might be looking at a pretty tough life in these lands with such an exotic fellow.

Ultimately, it is HM's call.


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## Zerith (May 31, 2012)

...so, was it a good post, am I full of wind, or am I Charlie Sheen?

So, what kind of role(s) needs to be filled for bolstered?

I need something to work around and ground my character or I'm only going to spin my wheels for the next few days


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## HolyMan (May 31, 2012)

I think Zerith could play his "non-standard character" if he took and looked at the RP side of it instead of the crunch side. Numbers do not make the "man" (or kobold).

Also that you tube clip was only a minute and 44 seocnds long. And you could play a shot game with it (winning) and empty a 5th before you knew it. 

HM


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## HolyMan (May 31, 2012)

Zerith said:


> ...so, was it a good post, am I full of wind, or am I Charlie Sheen?
> 
> So, what kind of role(s) needs to be filled for bolstered?
> 
> I need something to work around and ground my character or I'm only going to spin my wheels for the next few days




You need to play what you wish - BUT within the guidelines of the game we have set.

`We will be separating the group and probably by level.

Need to RP this if possible - will just do it if not.

HM


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## Zerith (May 31, 2012)

the logic for a kobold would be that trouble makers, paralytically smart  ones with leader ship potential, are made into merchants, give them  room to think, that tends to breed individuality, greed and want of  personal advancement in kobolds. Atypically this ends up with the Kobold in question scouting out possible locations for a new lair and then when a tribe splits get themselves installed as the new tribe's all-watcher.

Being half copper dragon, and thus a naturally unashamed pranster would mark him early on as a truble maker, being a half dragon also makes him innately intelligent and, well, Kobolds all but warship dragons as gods definitive. from any all-watcher's prospective he could end up leading a lair to prosperity prity easily.

That and it's cannon that 1% of all kobold lairs are CG 

Anyways; backtracking a character concept ago, about arranging for the character to acquire lycanthropy if we did this, how would it be handled? would the character aquire the templet slowly, 1 ECL at each fallowing level up, up front by sacking class levels, something in between?
Additionally, when you said polymorph him into a kobold (or logicly something else) are you talking a permanent affect that basically changes the character race, a practically permanent one (can be dispelled, for example, but then simply returns some time latter) or just the default spell?
If the former I gotta wonder what happens to the character's feat for being human :/


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## Deskjob (May 31, 2012)

^

_Misspelling the word 'Canon':  Respect -0.5.
Still talking about 'Kobolds':  Respect -1000._

Zerith, we love you man.  But you just party-fouled.


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## Zerith (May 31, 2012)

wait, I still had respect? 
Anyways, as for the kobold thing, I don't like simply dropping a line of  thought, I prefer to express too much then too little: case in point  two  drawings I made a little before joining en world
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f135/Forest_Herder/Drawings/DrakeCasting.jpg
http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f135/Forest_Herder/Drawings/DrakeBronzefange.jpg
I wanted to use a reincarnation of the character ;3
This reminds me, I still need to finish Das Dandy Hydra for HM ^_^;
I'll see about finishing it in awhile :3

Anyways, I'm at a bit of a stand still as to what to make, my problem is  not relay that I can't get a idea I could be happy with, its just that i  have too many of them all at once, and, annoyingly, if I have two idea  competing in my head I cannot help but combine both into one 'better'  idea :/
 Example, one idea I have is a merfolk, glimmered up and so forth but  I've had thoughts of half dragons! you can see were this is going...
A character I plan to use sooner or later, but by no means one that  would mesh in this campaign... just simply being a merfolk would one  hella a stretch by itself ^_^;

One 1/10th of a second in Zerith's head 'hmmm... I could play as the dandy hydra... HM loves hydras perhaps he will let me! *thoughts of kittens* perfect! wait, wait, but then,  no the dandy hydra just wants to drink tea and eat crumpets, no motivation to be in the RP... drat.' This has been, 1/10th of a second in Zerath's brain

So, anyone want to give me a lil direction or am I just going to be pulling anything out of my brain that holds my attention span for longer then two seconds?

Also, my grammar is bad, real bad. be happy you got a real word... I've misspent cold by 3 or 4 letters before. 
That said, please continue to point out spelling and grammar errors in the future, helps me avoid them as time gos on ^_^


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## Fangor the Fierce (May 31, 2012)

Playing something that you want simply for the non standard aspect is great and all, but seems to contradict this type of game.  ECL and templates throws even more difficulty to the character.  We are already trying to hide a half-elf from almost everyone we come across.  

I like the shapeshifting concept and think it would be pretty cool to see a were-anything on our side of the battlefield.  Something like a Jekyll and Hyde concept, where one side is timid yet Intelligent, while the other is animalistic.  I think someone else had a lycanthropy concept a while back, but I can't remember.  Slept since then.


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## Deskjob (May 31, 2012)

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]

Sure thing.  Let's see if we can't help you out.  Character creation is one of the most enjoyable parts of RP'ing.

1st, start with a concept you enjoy.  Think of your favorite forms of hobbies and entertainment.  Whether they be movies, books, woodworking, drawing, or maybe videogames?  Write down what comes to mind.

2nd, pick a favorite.  Sort them out and see what would work best for the campaign and for you.  Now embody that idea into a single person.  What do they look like?  What do they wear?  How do they carry themselves?  Spend all that awesome brain power on imagining your character.  Since your an artist you might try drawing them too.

3rd, pick an archetype for your character.  Warrior, Thief, or Mage.  This can become their classification during combat.  Ex:  Fighter Class, Rogue Class, or Wizard Class.

4th, build them.  D&D gives us rules so we can actually 'build' these characters and bring them to life.  Just follow the rules and create your character.

All done!  Congrats!  ...Now enjoy Roleplaying as this character in the Campaign.  It doesn't get much simpler than that.  Most players come to learn these steps by heart and use them often.  Since you seemed to be having trouble I thought it would be a good review.  Even if you have already been exposed to these easy concepts before.

You can PM either me or HolyMan if you need more help!  Best wishes!


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## Zerith (Jun 1, 2012)

The guy talking about making a shape-shifter a year or so ago? that was me, totally me
But yes, since were looks popular should we go with:
natural: At peace with itself but not exactly normal while in human form (acts a 'little off")
or
Afflicted: Conflicted with and confused as to how to deal with its new nature.

Some Natural RP notes:
-The character dos not have any baggage inherent from being a were beyond, possibly, keeping it nature a secret.
-inherently causes as much drama as it's given or happenchance causes; they character produces no signs of inner struggle (as there are none).
-possible drama from the ability to make new weres (or spice up villains)

Some (initial) Afflicted RP notes:
-the character is in a perpetual stat of strife (at least until such time it comes to peace with its condition) and unintentionally draws undo focus to itself while attempting to avoid things that might set itself off.
-self-doubting, unsure of itself and could become unduly timid do to it.
-might go/attempt to go through some ordeal to get ‘cured’

As such I’m inclined to go with the natural as things stand, even if it has a higher LA and it flat out loses a feat when compared to an afflicted one…
(with an average 3 HD animal form, naturals give one bonus feat[iron will] while afflicted generally gives out 2 and cost one LA less, if taken at the right time, lower HD weres can easily pull out 2 and 3 bonus feats respectively)


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 1, 2012)

Hey there HM. Thanks for the spell selection. No need to get 9ths, Lora is not a scholar, she needs practical use within a reasonable timeframe.

Can I choose the spells next week, and begin from there?

Also, do you have the Spell Compendium or do I need to give you descriptions of non-SRD spells?

Also, can you point me to the appropriate thread to RP in?


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## Zerith (Jun 1, 2012)

[FONT=&quot]@M&L
http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/258495-off-war-ic-35.html


 @ General
LA
1: [/FONT][FONT=&quot]lycanthropic empathy, [/FONT][FONT=&quot]Alternate form +2 natural armor.
2:  +2 Wisdom, Damage reduction 5/silver, Iron will
3: Curse of lycanthropy, Damage reduction 10/silver

is what what I cam up for LA advancement, and I'm pondering coming in at  3/3 animal HD only and being effectively locked into the character's animal form [/FONT][FONT=&quot] initially [/FONT][FONT=&quot](if I end up going with an a natural were)
Anyone have any thoughts on the matter?

Addon:
@HM
Do you have the sum of xp I've gotten up til now handy or should I dig through the thread? :3
[/FONT]


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## HolyMan (Jun 4, 2012)

ML I have the Spell Compendium no problem there.

Zerith:

 Your XP total can be found here

All you need to do is make a character given the guidelines under character generation - here and in your background decide if you are a natural or an afflicted lycanthrope, I will do the rest. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Jun 4, 2012)

Things seem sluggish both here and in the IC.

Even if I don't count this weekend (which weekends are hardly ever counted) both the RP and discussion posts are low. Will give everyone this week to see about getting their feet under them before I take and move things along.

HM


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## jackslate45 (Jun 4, 2012)

I am back to working 14 hours 6 days a week, due to our lead developer quitting out of the blue. posting is sketchy at best


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## Sugar_Silk (Jun 4, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> Things seem sluggish both here and in the IC.
> 
> Even if I don't count this weekend (which weekends are hardly ever counted) both the RP and discussion posts are low. Will give everyone this week to see about getting their feet under them before I take and move things along.
> 
> HM




I agree. I keep being tempted to post again but I don't want to over-do it.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 4, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> Only wizard needed is Skazul. His study is full of spells and incantations. The only thing that Lora had to worry about was time and money.
> 
> In the study you may find any spell you wish of any level. I put the cluttered mess in there just for that purpose. Now you need to decide what spells Lora would go looking for, as I will forgo the "fee" as you are under your WBL anyway.
> 
> ...




A blank spellbook with 100 pages costs only 15 gp. from the store. I'm sure Skazul has some lying around  I will calculate how many pages I need for all my spells and tell you which spellbook holds which, and where Lora keeps them.

Chosen spells:

[sblock]

*Level 1:* 1 page

Nerveskitter (SpC) = 1

*Level 2:* = 6 pages

Chain of Eyes (SpC), Detect Thoughts, Invisibility

*Level 3:* = 15 pages

Slow, Dispel Magic, Sleet Storm, Great Thunderclap (SpC), Unluck (SpC)
*
Level 4:* = 16 pages

Celerity, Assay Spell Resistance (SpC), Black Tentacles, Dimension Door [/sblock]

38 pages taken up for new spells, 30 for existing spells 1-3, 28 for existing cantrips (all cantrips from PHB and SC, if there are more, I'll add them)

Total pages used 96/100

Lora definitely needs a new, blank spellbook.


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## HolyMan (Jun 4, 2012)

Thanks for keeping the IC bumped Sugar_Silk.

____________________________________

Great ML I will handle that for you then IC wise. So don't worry you'll have a new one, to add to as you adventure.

HM


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## Disposable Hero (Jun 4, 2012)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]: This is D&D 3.5 not PF correct?


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## HolyMan (Jun 4, 2012)

This is 3.5 with some homebrew thrown in for good measure. 

HM


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## Deskjob (Jun 4, 2012)

Somebody buy that lady a spell book!  Vance?  Come on Mister Knight.  Nothing says 'Love', like 'Magic'.


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## Sugar_Silk (Jun 4, 2012)

ghostcat said:


> The problem is that Lora, Darling and Roderick don't know about the crown and the others are operating a "Need to Know" system, so will be reluctant to tell them.
> 
> To my mind the original group will want to stay with both the Ambassador and the crown. Also, I don't believe that Dellex will be taken in by a plan where Jareth isn't with the ambassador.




Seems like this is where the lines are drawn. The main party is tied to Sil and seems to agree that he belongs with the troops. That leaves just Lora, Roderick and Darling free to maneuver. Dellex doesn't know 2 of us, and probably assumes Lora will continue working at the manor?

I suppose Malaroc and/or Ernestine might slip away without raising too much suspicion... unless 'assistant' was an understatement.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 4, 2012)

Lora has 54 gp not including the 10-20 we got as a party for completing Spider's Path, so she can definitely afford a spellbook or two. If she could she would buy three. One to be filled with spells, and two decoys. One of the decoys she will wear on her belt, the other in her backpack.

The two real ones she will wear strapped with leather bonds beneath her dress, probably strapped to her back so they are not obvious.

Dellex does know Lora but I think he doesn't deem her significant. She got imprisoned, but he has her brother on some sort of leash and he has seen she is incapable of high-tier magic. So far I'd say he thinks her well under control.

I think he'll reconsider once she springs an Anti-Magic Field on him and lets the warriors pull him limb from limb.

In case you guys didn't know, he is Lawful Evil, so he cares about appearances and rules. He isn't going to fly in and rain fire over our heads, but arrests and swift trials are a possible way to lose one's character prematurely. So tread lightly.


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## HolyMan (Jun 5, 2012)

My thinking on the sub-games is this....

Jareth, Mal, Ern, Trinham, and Rodric in one group. Hopefully galloping towards the castle.

Darling, Lora, Pious (will have him checked by tomorrow), and Zerith's newest addition and anyone else who joins. To stay and play keep away the identity from Dellex.

Any objections/other ideas.


HM


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## Sugar_Silk (Jun 5, 2012)

I'm perfectly happy wherever!


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## Deskjob (Jun 5, 2012)

I'd be more than happy to follow Myth's and Sugar's lead in a game of keep away.  Both female characters have more than enough tricks up their sleeves to last us for a hundred days.  _*thumbs up*_


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## jackslate45 (Jun 6, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> My thinking on the sub-games is this....
> 
> Jareth, Mal, Ern, Trinham, and Rodric in one group. Hopefully galloping towards the castle.
> 
> ...




works for me. Ern can summon enough horses to do so, so they don't have to steal any.


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## Zerith (Jun 6, 2012)

Right now I’m thinking of making a moderately Kitsune themed natural-Were who is highly compatible with magic.
While he might take up a spell casting class latter on, as a fluff dip, the compatibility in this case is more of a resonance, a resounding echo,  that happens after he is exposed to magic: for example, after being healed enough, or otherwise bombarded with enough holy/light energy, he will likely pick up nimbus of light for a halo.
You could say the idea is this character is magical in body and spells pollute, corrupt or purify his nature.
Probably have him be a ‘native’ to Reygur; it has a common border with Fanshaw ;3
[I’m thinking of subbing out dog for fox as far as the animal/stats gos given that I could not find them for a fox :/]


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## ghostcat (Jun 6, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> My thinking on the sub-games is this....
> 
> Jareth, Mal, Ern, Trinham, and Rodric in one group. Hopefully galloping towards the castle.
> 
> ...



Did you say _galloping_, as in horses.  Trinham will be one unhappy bunny 

Personally I have no objections one way or the other and any IC objections will be strictly Trinham's.


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## HolyMan (Jun 6, 2012)

jackslate45 said:


> works for me. Ern can summon enough horses to do so, so they don't have to steal any.




Great, maybe you should mention that IC. Some needs to kick this ball to get it rolling.



Zerith said:


> Right now I’m thinking of making a moderately Kitsune themed natural-Were who is highly compatible with magic.
> While he might take up a spell casting class latter on, as a fluff dip, the compatibility in this case is more of a resonance, a resounding echo,  that happens after he is exposed to magic: for example, after being healed enough, or otherwise bombarded with enough holy/light energy, he will likely pick up nimbus of light for a halo.
> You could say the idea is this character is magical in body and spells pollute, corrupt or purify his nature.
> Probably have him be a ‘native’ to Reygur; it has a common border with Fanshaw ;3
> [I’m thinking of subbing out dog for fox as far as the animal/stats gos given that I could not find them for a fox :/]




Stat up the human half of your character and we can RP the rest. I think they have fox listed for PF stats might be close enough.



ghostcat said:


> Did you say _galloping_, as in horses.  Trinham will be one unhappy bunny
> 
> Personally I have no objections one way or the other and any IC objections will be strictly Trinham's.




It's my job (and privilege) to make characters unhappy bunnies. 

And thanks for the heads up about why I'll see a lot of opposition to the ambassador's plan.

HM


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## Zerith (Jun 6, 2012)

Yep, PF lists them as a 1/4 HD animal (aka, Zero when used as a PC from what, little, I know) :3
Also, I think I'm going the natural route, so I should start with at least 1 of the LA. Given that there are levle 1 characters right now I don't think having him start with 2 of the 3 LA would be bad (and it makes what he gets and dos not get clear cut)
However; Foxes, as per PF, are tinny animals: can we Hose rule it as ok or should I still sub the stats with a small sized animal?
on a related note; is it ok if I ignore the role of Lycans having to get all the feats that their animal form as? (or, as per the swamping hose rule, just swap them out, same thing in the end)

And to my fellow players: you're going to be dealing with this character, so if you want to say anything now is your best chance to speak up and have an impact; while the character is still easily reshaped ;3


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## Dragonwriter (Jun 6, 2012)

Zerith said:


> And to my fellow players: you're going to be dealing with this character, so if you want to say anything now is your best chance to speak up and have an impact; while the character is still easily reshaped ;3




You want us to speak up? Okay. Here's my opinion: Don't run this character as you have it planned right now. You were shot down on this lycanthrope/shapeshifting stuff before, and still you persisted in trying to get it allowed. HM seems to have become more lenient in what he lets in, too. 

You can do the "affected by magic" without making some absurd were-something character. The +3 LA for a natural lycanthrope carries with it some serious benefits, most notably the huge DR. This entire business was already discussed in detail some time ago when you first tried to squeeze this sort of thing through.


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## Deskjob (Jun 6, 2012)

I once GM'd a game where I let a guy be a Large-Sized Half-Minotaur Cleric of War.  He ended up losing his fancy weapon and just spent the rest of the campaign swinging around a wooden, horse drawn, fruit-cart instead.

Going so far as to gain proficiency with it and later enchanted it with Wolf's-Bane abilities.  Even using the broken wheel as an improvised shield until it caught on fire.

The best part was that he did so well with that said 'fruit cart', that his very own Patron God ended up changing his holy symbol to a watermelon in honor of his divine servant's epic prowess in combat.

*Moral of the Story:*

Zerith, I don't care what you play.  As long as you make it as epic and fun as my Minotaur's fruit-cart campaign.  *wink*

___

_(BTW:  ...Little known fact.  Fruit-carts deal triple damage on a Critical Hit.  Who knew?)_


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## Zerith (Jun 6, 2012)

^Why it's best to not let the hyper active, easily excitable dude work in a vacuum
so yes, feedback, it helps keep the crazy in check; but mainly it generaly makes characters who are generally more enjoyable for all involved ;3
Anyways, I'm investigating the possibility of making him be a warlock then with fey origins :3

Addon: Also, DW, is your issue the idea of a were-somthing or the stats? I still like the idea of a were, but thinking about it, in such a low powered campaign, a PC with 10/silver could be rather OP (then again once it's bypased you have a ECL 4 character with one hit dice...) :/
Also, now that I think about it, HM, in what manner were you thinking of RPing the rest? :3

Addon2: I was planing on making have a base score of (v-Below-v) for the kitsune, ish, were ;3
12 str
14 dex
14 con
16 int
11 wis (13 after the +2 from were, if applied)
14 cha

the stats let him be passable at anything and, once he gets 3 SB levels, very good with light/finesse weapons :3
Given that the character is more of a jack of all trades then anything, the wide stats fit, or at least I think so (also, the high int helps the skill monkeying that reflects a jack of all trades mentality ;3


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 7, 2012)

I tend to agree with Dragonwriter.  It seems that you want a certain type of concept, which is 'above and beyond what everyone else was limited to' in this type of campaign.  I think we all came in with the concept that human would be the core class, with small options being opened up at times, such as Aver the half elf.  Other than that, we have been keeping the concepts and groups set as meeting the st requirements that were given up front.

Adding in such a 'drastic' change of character concept is more akin to bringing a greater disarray to the group, instead of adding cohesion.  Yet, that is my opinion, which you asked for.  I just think that there is plenty of chance to play a memorable and challenging character with the options that HM has us all using normally.

Example:  Mal is working for a Copper Dragon.  He's a Dragon Shaman, which allows him to grow in knowledge and mannerisms as his Copper Dragon master deems fit.  Eventually, he's looking to make a big change, hopefully taking Dragon Disciple PrC and taking that route.  Instead of taking claws and bite attacks, I am looking to trade those in for something more natural to human, such as weapon focus.  Less animalistic, more human, which I think this campaign and world was centered upon.

Again, that's my view of the world we play in, and how we are all involved with it.  I just can't honestly see how such a drastic change in character concept for a new character to be introduced would be viewed as a 'good choice'.  LA concepts are nice, but I don't think this is the right campaign for it.


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## ghostcat (Jun 7, 2012)

I've keep quite so far as I'm a Luddite and hate the entire concept of Monsters as Characters. 

As for Trinham's reaction.  I'm not sure yet but don't forget he's a peasant and he is more likely to hunt the "Beast" with a touch and pitchfork rather than befriend it.


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## Axel (Jun 7, 2012)

ghostcat said:


> I've keep quite so far as I'm a Luddite and hate the entire concept of Monsters as Characters.
> 
> As for Trinham's reaction.  I'm not sure yet but don't forget he's a peasant and he is more likely to hunt the "Beast" with a touch and pitchfork rather than befriend it.




When monsters were allowed as PC races as a normal component of D&D (as opposed to a really cool concept that came up once every 5 years) was when it jumped the shark for me, looking back.  PF >> 3.5 (thanks HM for pointing it out!).

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]  Sounds like you'd play a Kender if they were allowed.  I played with a Kender in a few parties.  It's OK for a one-night-stand.  For a PbP that runs for years...probably not what the group is looking for.  From over 2 decades of RP experience, your character will get tired and irritating.  Fast.  Then we'll find ways to sideline it (like not jumping in to protect a flank, or leaving you out of a big aura spell).  If it gets really bad, you can end up with PC vs PC, though I expect HM may step in before then.  For a world as apparently xenophobic and speciesist as this one...it may be like the first time one of my PC's ever met a (PC) Drow character.  "It's a Drow!  Catch it, and stick it in a barrel of water before it kills my wife!!"  You can't expect the rest of the players to meta-game the acceptance of a freak just because it's your character.

----
No objections to proposed plans.  Rodric may end up taking a back seat in combat as he's a few levels behind.  Still, I can deal with that.  

Will finish his crunchy bits off tonight.


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## Axel (Jun 7, 2012)

Rodric

[sblock=Game Info]
Race: Human
Class: Cleric
Level: 3
Alignment: Lawful Neutral
Languages: Common
Deity: Tor
[/sblock]
[sblock=Abilities]
STR: 15 +2
DEX: 10 +0
CON: 12 +1
INT: 10 +0
WIS: 16 +3 
CHA: 14 +2
[/sblock]
[sblock=Combat]
HP: 8 (LvL 1) + 3 (Con, 3 levels) + 2d8 
AC: 10 + 4 (armour) + 2 (shield)
AC Touch: 10 = 10 + 0 (DEX)
AC Flatfooted: 16 = 10 + 4 (armour) + 2 (shield) 
INIT: +0 = +0 (DEX)
BAB: +2 = +2 (Cleric)
Fort: +4 = +3 (base) + 1 (CON)
Reflex: +1 = +1 (base) + 0 (DEX)
Will: +6 = +3 (base) + 3 (WIS)
Speed: 30'
Damage Reduction: none
Spell Resistance: none

[/sblock]
[sblock=Weapon Stats]
Long Sword(melee): +5 = +2 (BAB) + 2 (STR) + 1 (FEAT)/DMG:1d8+2(P),CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(melee): +4 = +2 (BAB) + 2 (STR)/DMG:1d4+2(PorS),CRIT:19-20x2
Dagger(range): +2 = +2 (BAB) + 0 (DEX)/DMG:1d4+2(PorS),CRIT:19-20x2,RANGE: 10'


Destruction Domain:  Smite, 1/day.  Gain +4 to hit, + cleric level (3) in damage with a single melee attack.  Declare before use.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Racial Traits]
Size - Meduim
Speed - 30'
1 extra feat at first LvL
+4 skill points at first LvL, +1 skill point every LvL after first
Bonus Languages: Any
Favored Class: Any
[/sblock]
[sblock=Class Features]
Divine Spellcasting - Spontaneous Cure Spells (No Chaotic spells)
Domains (War, Destruction) 
Turn Undead 5 times/day (+2 bonus from Know: Religion)
Moderate Lawful Aura
[/sblock]
[sblock=Feats & Tricks]
Prof. with all simple weapons
Armor Prof. - Heavy, all shields except tower shields
Martial Weapon Proficiency - Longsword (War domain)
Weapon Focus - Longsword (War domain)
Power Attack (LvL1)
Extend Spell (human)
Alertness (houserule)
Divine Metamagic - Extend Spell (LvL3)


[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]

Skill Ranks: 28 = [4 (class) + 0 (INT)] x 4 (LvL1) + 4 (human) + 8 (level 2,3)
Max Ranks: 7/3 ACP: -4


```
[U]Total   Skill            Ability  Rank Misc Misc  ACP  Stat[/U]
+0  =   Appraise            +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
-4  =   Balance             +0    +0    +0   +0   -4    DEX      
+2  =   Bluff               +2    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
-2  =   Climb               +2    +0    +0   +0   -4    STR
+4  = ()Concentration       +1    +3    +0   +0   --    CON
+0 = ()Craft:              +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  =   Decipher Script^    +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+?  = ()Diplomacy           +2    +?    +4   +0   --    CHA
+0  =   Disable Device^     +0    +0    +0   +0   --    DEX
+2 =   Disguise            +2    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
-4  =   Escape Artist       +0    +0    +0   +0   -4    DEX
+0 =   Forgery             +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  =   Gather Information  +2    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+2  =   Handle Animal^      +2    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+9  = ()Heal                +3    +6    +0   +0   --    WIS
-4  =   Hide                +0    +0    +0   +0   -4    DEX
+2  =   Intimidate          +2    +0    +0  +0   --    CHA
+2  =   Jump                +2    +0    +0   +0   +0    STR
+0  = ()Knowledge:Arcana^   +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  =   Knowledge:Arch&Engn^+0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  =   Knowledge:Dungeons^ +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+1  =   Knowledge:Geography^+0    +1    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  = ()Knowledge:History^  +0    +2    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  =   Knowledge:Local^    +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  =   Knowledge:Nature^   +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  =   Knowledge:Nobility^ +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+5  = ()Knowledge:Religion^ +0    +5    +0   +0   --    INT
+0  = ()Knowledge:Planes^   +0    +0    +0   +0   --    INT
+2  =   Listen              +0    +0    +0   +2   --    INT
-4  =   Move Silently       +0    +0    +0   +0   -4    DEX
+0  =   Open Locks^         +0    +0    +0   +0   --    DEX
+3  =   Perform             +3    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+8  = ()Profession (Soldier)^         +3    +5    +0   +0   --    WIS
+0  =   Ride                +0    +0    +0   +0   --    DEX
+3  =   Sense Motive        +3    +0    +0   +0   --    WIS
+0  =   Sleight of Hand^    +0    +0    +0   +0   +0    DEX
n/a =   Speak Language^     n/a   +0    n/a  n/a  n/a   n/a
+1  = ()Spellcraft^         +0    +1    +0   +0   --    INT
+5  =   Spot                +3    +0    +0   +2   --    WIS
+3  =   Survival            +3    +0    +0   +0   --    WIS
-6  =   Swim                +2    +0    +0   +0   -8*   STR
-4  =   Tumble^             +0    +0    +0   +0   -4    DEX
+3  =   Use Magic Device^   +3    +0    +0   +0   --    CHA
+0  =   Use Rope            +0    +0    +0   +0   --    DEX
```
() = class skill
^ = trained only
* = double ACP
[/sblock]

[sblock=Equipment]

```
[U]Item(location)                  Cost   Weight[/U]
Traveler's Outfit(worn)         free     0lb
Scale Mail(worn)            50gp    30lb
Heavy wooden shield (worn, on back)  7 gp  10lb
Long sword                     10gp     2lb 
(worn in scabbard on belt)
Dagger(worn in scabbard on belt)        2gp     1lb
Backpack   			 2gp     2lb
Water skin(in backpack)          1gp     4lb
Bedroll(in backpack)             1sp     5lb
Belt pouch  1gp  0.5lb
FlintandSteel(in backpack)       1gp     ---
9 days rations                   9sp     9lb
Whetstone		2cp  1lb
Holy symbol (wooden)   1gp --
Hunting horn	1gp  2lb
```
 
*Treasure:* ???

Total weight carried: 65 (light)

Carrying Capacity:
Light: 00-66lbs
Medium: 67-133lbs
Heavy: 134-200lbs
Lift Over Head: 200lbs
Lift Off Ground: 400lbs
Push/Drag: 1000lbs
[/sblock]

[sblock=Personal Details]
Size: Medium
Gender: Male
Age: 23
Height: 5'11"
Weight: 183 lbs
Hair Colour: Black
Eye Colour: Brown
Skin Colour: Tanned and weatherbeaten

Appearance: Solid looking, shaved head, mustache with no beard.  Always carries his head high and shoulders back.  Tattoos of various places visited (whether invited or otherwise) across both arms - working on a full sleeve.

Missing little finger on his left hand.  Wears a red woolen cap into every battle, claiming it gives him luck.

Demeanor: Confident, prone to solve problems with violence, racist with varying degrees of severity to all non-humans.[/sblock] 
[sblock=Background]
Rodric is one of four survivors from the mercenary group The Grey Company.  He says little of the last battle of the group, as do the other three survivors.

Rodric has served all his adolescence and manhood in various military groups, having been singled out as a chosen of Tor in his very first battle.  While standing in the vanguard against a Troll incursion a raven landed on his helm.  The sign was enough for his fellow soldiers.  They protected him from having his skull crushed by a Troll's club.  Afterwards, he survived, prospered and learned his true calling well enough.  

Survival has always been Rodric's true gift.  More of any men under his authority survive than most other priests, or indeed officers.  This makes him popular amongst the rank and file - though Rodric is never sure why or how he seems to pull through his red woolen cap gives him something to show the troops.

After nearly a decade fighting an unimaginable number of foes, for an equally unimaginable number of employers, Rodric has developed a healthy animosity against non-humans and a strong (bordering on paranoid) distrust of strangers, particularly non-human strangers.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Adventure Log]
[/sblock]
[sblock=Level Ups] 

[/sblock]

C&C welcome.


----------



## Zerith (Jun 7, 2012)

Kend-wah!?!  ... *blinks* Can I haz plas?
Should not give me ideas ^_^

But really... I was...

One: note planning on the character proclaiming what he was; he would be far more likely to try acting normal and only expose his nature as a last ditch trump card to stay alive. (just because I'm insane, dos not mean my characters are! ;D)

Two: hoping to make Drama! Real D~r~a~m~a!
shock value is cheap; it only lasts for a moment, and yes, not a good thing to make a character on for a long term game.
However: most PCs would, if not meta gamed, smite an were on the spot who was allegedly an ally before exposing themselves as a were: it must have been spying on them! Basically, characters have to be bent to avoid the party turning on the were-PC and smiting it.
I _loath_ character bending; I'm retiring, or at least suspending, Alexander because looking back on him I feel that I horribly twisted his character. If you’re character would naturaly try and cleave my character’s head off? Let them. Keeps me honest and the characters alive!... or at least feeling that way while they are! 

This said, if the person you've been fighting alongside with and relying on for days, weeks, months, even years, ends up being a were? There is drama!
You have the initial shock value, but then you have motive for the other PC's not to slay the were PC on the spot. This is not to say that there would be no internal turmoil, far from it. It stirs debate within the party: In Character. The Party at large might opt to still smite the were-PC on the spot, but at the same time, they would likely be appeased with knocking the were PC out, until they can come to a consensus at last. Then there are logical divides; most of the other PCs would be very cross with the revelation, while the others turn openly hostile to the point of wanting to slay the Were-PC. It makes things more interesting. ;3

Three: thinking that the magically aligned nature of the character reacting to spells might be a subtle hint that there might be something else that is off.

Four: thinking I really like shape shifters ;3

___

Also, very I’m pleased that you’re all finally giving me feedback, makes me think and thus, hopefully, make a better character :3
I’m off my plain (Btw, I’m out of Alaska for a week now, fyi XD)
I'm still pondering the warlock angle though, anyone know where I can find variant rules for them? :3


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 7, 2012)

Really?  Still thinking of introducing a concept that goes against what guideline everyone else was set forth?  I guess I just don't understand what the dilemma is regarding using the rules of the campaign to introduce a character that meets the following guidelines:

1 - Adheres the same guidelines as the other characters (Human race with a single half elf, which was only allowed as a half elf, and not full elf at that.)
2 - Doesn't look to throw the group into disarray, but instead works on providing cohesion.

I just can't see how providing a were-creature character into the mix 'because it sounds cool' is the way to go.


----------



## Deskjob (Jun 8, 2012)

I like HM's idea.

Create a human character to start, then we can zap him with Were' powers later in the game.  Nice!  That idea even follows all character creation rules too.  Good thinking HM.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 8, 2012)

Zerith I know you like your oddball characters but you must comply with the DM's rules. Holy Man didn't ask you to join the game, you're the one asking to come in. He as a DM does not like certain things in terms of mechanics and character concepts.

Off to war is a (more or less) low magic adventure, with very low WBL, which focuses on mundane/martial aspects and diplomacy and roleplaying.

HM likes his story tightly leashed and  the characters to fit the adventure profile, though he will not flatly say "no" becuse he's a nice guy, you should feel when you are pushing past what he feels comfortable with and don't do it.

In VotD I allow almost all concepts and characters. Here things are different.


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## Zerith (Jun 9, 2012)

<Oblivious
I tend to run with things until I get a big fat no ^_^;
I finally got some sleep; so let’s see a few(5) Possibilities :3
(I’ll avoid stats for now ;3)

(1)Were-Fox: 
So, we have quite a few options here
1A: Natural, pre-awakened: This is the one seems to have the most issues over all, it’s been debated the most so we’ll just leave it.
1B: Natural, asleep: This has a few options in and itself, the character could be aware of its developing nature, or the character could be unaware: the first option draws less focus on the character (no “what is happening to me!” emo stuff tag on) could either have 
1C: Afflicted plus: An Idea that I had just a bit ago, basically as per normal afflicted, but to do to the character’s nature(being absorbing/resonating to magic)  it affectively becomes a natural by taking the affliction exceedingly well; would likely take in more of the were traits but with less of the internal drama/conflict (do to the character integrating it to himself instead of the affliction simply invading his system)
1D:  Afflicted: your vanilla Afflicted type Were.

(2)Fey blooded Warlock: The character would have some obvious fey characteristics (assuming his clothing aren’t covering them up at the time), be a mischief maker, and portrays himself as a bard.

(3)Magically aligned marital character: In truth I don’t plan this character concept much different than the above, but neither have been too well developed.

(4)Just use Alexander again: As said before, I believe I mangled his character, so if I did start using him again I’d like to just white wash and start, mostly afresh, don’t care if characters (PC or otherwise) keep their basic impression (he is can be very greeting very easly)
This said he is the yang to Jearth’s Ying; while he seeks to prove he deserves his birth right, he also enjoys the title, he is a schemer and is mostly out for himself and prestige.
This is a double edged sword as far as part continuity goes. While he would love to take some of the renown for ending the betrayals of a court mage, he would likely shy away from the do to the posable repercussions: he could lose more prestige then he could gain and one of the last things we wants to do is piss of Dellex and not have Dellex affectively neutralized politically. (if not killed) But Alexander has nothing agent Dellex, so this brings us into a now massive issue that could make him want to side _with_ Dellex.

He has a seething hatred for elves: hatred is by no means an understatement. As far as he is concerned, they murdered his elder brother (a man he now loves, despises, and envies) in cold blood, further there have been innumerous attempts at reviving his brother over the years, none have worked despite the recovery of the body: He, along with his father, half mad at the loss of his favored heir; have decided that this is because the elves have resorted to truly fiendish means.
Luckily he is restraint enough to not simply lose himself and blindly attack an elf if he sees one, but… his hatred is firmly rooted and he would take just about any excuse to murder one on the spot…

(5)Other: want to give me another idea? :3

Anyways, shall we now take this to a vote for basic character concept? :3

1: Were-Fox in the making who may also be also highly compatible with magic (I‘d prefer natural, but in hindsight, I can go either way with it. (if so, A, B, C, or D) 
2: Warlock with fey background, also highly compatible with magic
3: A marital Character who is highly compatible with magic, possibly with a history of exposer to holy magic/energy.
4: reinstate Alexander and wash bored a lot/most of, that he has don thus far.
5: other.


----------



## HolyMan (Jun 11, 2012)

A very busy weekend and everyone still needs to help me get things rolling in the IC so I can start the side games. <DM hint ended>

I have Rodric up for a look over and will do it first thing in the morning so be looking for that tomorrow.

__________________________________________________

Zerith, Zerith, Zerith what am I to do with you...

I just had a thought that you should maybe combine #4 and #1D - I think that would bring about some serious RP for your little princeling once he started going were-gnoll. 

HM


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## Zerith (Jun 11, 2012)

Could, but I really can't see Alexander as a were dog/gnoll, something about his last name
Also, I had not thought about it, but Alexander is inatly enfussed with magic

... Could you imagine him with a halo?
He's only one of/the most evil PC in the RP, the NPCs should differently see him as a harbinger of good ^_^;

But seriously, while he speaks gnollish, both willingly and with a bit of pride that he knows the language, he would not long allow himself to look like a gnoll, muchness a mangy animal. He is vain and looking like a dog would drive him up the walls. Now, while I would normal say "So lets make him into a mutt!" his ire is readily inflamed enough as is; so until he manages to cool off some I don't think that's a good idea to pout him even more aggravated. If he gets back in I've nothing against it, so I'd leave the if and if not up to you as a surprise 
[sblock=Were-Raven...]And while he would be more agreeable to turning into a raven of some kind, this would likely mean something like a dire raven being introduced to the campaign while also having were-ravens; could say their native to his county, as it's host to innumerous ravens, but it's still a stretch.

Could also say that House Ravensworth, and this is a new can of worms. House Ravensworth is secretive (increasingly so over the last decade) so it might fly, but again, new can of worms :/
I'll admit I like the idea, but it's not needed.[/sblock]

Now, assuming he gets voted back in, he needs to get around to summoning his pet Raven 
(Perhaps he managed to do so, in the intern?)
And talking about the familiar, could I sub out the +3 appraisal for +3 diplomacy?

Anyways, anyone else want to chime in here?


----------



## Deskjob (Jun 11, 2012)

_*eyeroll*
_
Marsha, Marsha, Marsha...

___

HM,

Hit me back with another PM when Pious is checked off.  I'd like to get an IC post in before the 18th of June.  Lol.  Even if it has to take place outside and in the stable with the horses.

- DJ


----------



## Sugar_Silk (Jun 11, 2012)

Do you even want to actually play the game, Zerith? Or are you just here to make HM pull his hair out?

What is all this 'magic compatable' and 'glowing halo' stuff?

You could be playing by now if you'd just be human and pick a class. The spectrum of human personality is rich enough to make an interesting character, even without animal parts and special effects. I suspect you prefer fiddling with stats and making lists far more than you enjoy actual role playing. Maybe you should channel your creativity into designing characters for anime or video games? My point is, all this idea-shrapnel seems to have gotten you nowhere, and I can't take another epic were-this-were-that A, B, C, D, glowing, wings, feathers, tail, shapeshift post from you. I don't mean to be rude. I really would like to play with you, so please take the hint that EVERYONE has suggested so far:

BE A HUMAN! ROLL YOUR STATS AND LET'S PLAY!


----------



## Zerith (Jun 11, 2012)

I enjoy both, but I firmly believe that the best characters aren't made in a vacuum: Alexander was going to be a kinda goofy steam punk character. However, after OoC discussion this idea was scraped and Alexander became a more sinister and manipulative character, a lot more interesting as well.
Sadly I got lazy and bent his character to the point that we're here, again

I don't care if I scrap a character before I write the bio, but once I do I get annoyed by having to start afresh, so I tend to hold off on it until I feel the consent is green lite ;3

So I prefer going through ideas, in depth, OoC since there is no real harm in it: hastily made characters can be less enjoyable to RP or be grating on other RPers, meanwhile characters who are carefully made can be greatly more enjoyable and give other RPers something to work with, if they so choose.

Anyways.
I don't plan on making Alexander anything beyond human if he comes back into play, and while his family line dos have an inherently arcane nature, its entirely stable and built over centuries, it's basically restricted to his fluff and as an excuse to give him a more exotic, distinctive appearance: anyone who knows about this family trait can instinctively spot a Ravensworth out in a crowed, unless their glamored.
[While I like the idea of making him a were raven, it's not needed in any way, he might even be one in a _later incarnation_, but it would not add anything worthwhile in this version and this RP]

And all the stuff above 'but seriously' was made in jest as silly banter, not as part of serous discussion ;3

Finally, the vote thing was meant to expedite the proses, to spur feedback and to bring the issue to a head, should I assume you're voting #4 then SS?

Addon: Woops, almost missed this.
The magic compatibility was spoken of in an early post you might have missed, basically I was planing on having a character with a magical nature that was note stable, and effectively take in new qualities that are the halo thing is becuse the kind of spell he, or any other PC, is likely to get regularly bombarded with is healing spells, most of which are holy in nature, so nimbus of light would be a likely feat to express his nature being changed/absorbing a new magical trait. :3


----------



## Sugar_Silk (Jun 11, 2012)

Honestly? I don't like the idea of rewriting history or events in the game just to adjust your character concept. It doesn't sound like you are happy with Alexander as he is so just retire him.

I think the warlock or the _martial_ arts ideas are the simplest and therefore the best. I'd vote the fighter just because you'll have less choices to distract your decision making further. You won't be happy unless you have special appendages or wings or something, but if it's subtle, cosmetic, and concealable it won't affect the game anyway.

The way you keep saying 'magically aligned' makes me wonder what that means to you... I'll just assume it means you have some spells. Think about not scouring every spell compendium ever written looking for things to mod.


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## jackslate45 (Jun 11, 2012)

magically alighted= has power of magic already =  innate not leared = Sorcerer.  

Proof in 4 steps.

In other news, my schedule has eased significantly.  I should be able to start posting again.


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## Axel (Jun 12, 2012)

Alexander was Chaotic, unstable and magical.  Not to mention unpredictable (though that's OK for a CN character).

Why don't you do something totally different and make a LE fighter or monk that is anti-magic (as in, some personality trait that makes them hate magic)?  Crunchy-effective is not very important in this game.  Interesting, funny and engaging is, it seems.


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 12, 2012)

Interlude >

So, in other news, what does the group division look like now?  I am a little lost on who's going where and all.  How many days travel is it to where the destination is and how long would each group normally take, under normal circumstance, to reach said destination?

Finally, am I correct in assuming that the crown is with Mal?  Or did it get handed to someone else?  If someone knows off hand, it would prevent me from combing through the threads to find that little tidbit of information.


----------



## HolyMan (Jun 12, 2012)

Character check...

*Rodric*

Have your pts spent at 32 of the 35
AC should be 16
In combat block list Grapple: +4 = +2 (BAB) + 2 (STR)
Have Extend Spell listed twice (human bonus and Lvl3).
Have skill ranks at
Skill Ranks: 30 = [4 (class) + 0 (INT) x 4 + 4 (human):LvL1] + [4 (class) + (0 INT) + 1 (human) x 2 (levels 2,3)]
ACP should be -5 now (see below) should have been -7 before
Only see 24 out of those 30 skill ranks used and what does ? in Diplomacy mean
Please make your scalemail and shield masterwork items
Treasure leftover after equipment will be 22gp, 9sp, 8cp
Have current weight at 66.5lbs (medium)

*Pious
*
ACP -4 ? Have -2 for chain shirt but I don't see a shield listed for the other -2
Skill ranks should be 24 [4(class) + 1 (INT) x4 + 4 (human)]
Have total weight at 53lb

And Deskjob since things are going slow I will set you up in one of the off-shot games and have everyone else join when they are done.

HM


----------



## HolyMan (Jun 12, 2012)

Fangor the Fierce said:


> Interlude >
> 
> So, in other news, what does the group division look like now?  I am a little lost on who's going where and all.  How many days travel is it to where the destination is and how long would each group normally take, under normal circumstance, to reach said destination?
> 
> Finally, am I correct in assuming that the crown is with Mal?  Or did it get handed to someone else?  If someone knows off hand, it would prevent me from combing through the threads to find that little tidbit of information.




Group division as I see it (and hope you all will IC it)

Group leaving army
Malaroc
Trinham
Jareth
Ern
NPC Sil

Group staying with army
Rodric
Darling
Pious
Lora
NPC Vance
NPC Martomum
NPC Fallon

Also...

A) Is it you FtF who wishes to know the distances and such or does Mal wish to know (and would he know). I don't wissh to tell you FtF then have Mal suddenly become a geography major. 

B) Whoever has the bag of holding has the crown.

HM


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 12, 2012)

It would be from In Character for the length of the trek they are going to undertake.  Mal had wandered to their current location once before, so he's wondering if it's heading back the same way he originally came, or another route altogether.

What?  We have a Bag of Holding?  Hahahaha!  Not sure who's holding it really.  Anyone know?


----------



## Deskjob (Jun 13, 2012)

- jackslate,

Welcome back to posting.  Great to hear it.

___

- HM,

Thanks.  I'll fix those inconsistencies.  And thanks for the quick add in.  Sitting on my thumbs is no fun.

___

- Zerith

We still love you.  You just talk alot.  

DJ


----------



## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 13, 2012)

Deskjob said:


> - Zerith
> 
> We still love you.  You just talk alot.
> 
> DJ




This made me laugh!


----------



## Axel (Jun 13, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> Character check...
> 
> *Rodric*
> 
> ...




-  Sorry, thought it was a 32 point buy.    Move Str from 15-->16, Con from 12-->13.
-  AC, no worries.  Did the maths in a rush, prone to mistakes.
-  Add Grapple, no dramas.  Always struggled to get to grips with those rules 
-  Extend Spell at 3rd level is intended as Divine Metamagic - Extend Spell (Complete Divine).  It lets Rodric sacrifice 2 turn attempts when casting a spell to have the spell effected by Extend Spell.
-  Will add a further 6 skill points shortly.  Remaining points to max-out Concentration, leftover to Knowledge (Engineering).
-  ? in Diplomacy results from me quoting Alden's old character sheet to get the structure right.  Wrote over his skills with ? until I got through Rodric's skills.  Must've missed that one...
-  Re: armour and ACP.  Would rather Rodric had Splint Mail or Breastplate than MW Scale Mail.  Up to you though, since Splint is harsh for ACP (which you may be pushing me to minimise...).  Will adjust ACP as required (my bad forgetting the shield...)


----------



## Zerith (Jun 13, 2012)

Alright, DJ’s accurate jab aside

Magically aligned in this case is supposed to mean compatible with magic, takes and absorbs magic in normally unexpected ways (normal effects happen per normal, but the character’s advancement fallows a path aligned to spells he is commonly hit by or are more powerful than normal, if he is commonly hit by polymorph magic the character may end up progressing towards the ability to shape shift/shapechanger type (highly unlikely to ever get there, the amount of magic needed for such a change in the character is unlikely to occur in the foreseeable future as I don’t think the character would be polymorph that much, if at all) if commonly hit by flight spells the character would start to become accustom to flight (possibly even gaining the ability)
Also, even those who are innately magical don’t have to be sorcerers: Pixies  come to mind: their loaded with magic, but not all with class levels are sorcerers (they make equally good wizards by stats) and as far as raw arcane/magical energy goes, I think warlocks express that better then sorcerers; they don’t bother forming proper spells at all ;3

[sblock=C/L G/E alignment rant]
As for the evil-good and chaotic – lawful alignments, they don’t really decide if a character is predictable or not or if they work to uphold the law.  Lawful just means they won’t , normally, break the written law(or as the case may be, their honor code): A Lawful character may work in the spirit of the law, or may pervert it to serve themselves and or their interests. A lawful evil character can adhere to both the spirit and the written word of the law to the letter while a lawful good character is bending it to use as both sword and shield to aid the common persion, or vica versa. Meanwhile some chaotic characters are mind numbingly predictable.
Case in point Chaotic evil: aka the “smash everything” alignment common to evil barbarians (And some of the best lawful characters are all but imposable to predict without extensive knowledge of them). At its root, in dnd Chaotic dos not mean the character has to act unlawful, only that they place freedom above law: because of this any character that places themselves above the law can easily be ‘chaotic’ and choose to obey an ordinance  even though they don’t want to. This is in fact common practice to my knowledge: how often do chaotic, party, characters do something blazingly against the law on a whim? The only other true aspect of lawful vs chaotic is lawful tends to honor their word more commonly, but both can lie as well (Lawful character end up claiming some term or condition was not meet, and even inter into contracts knowing that the term or condition would never be meet. So yes, just a mild tendency to be more honorable then their chaotic counterparts) 

As for good and evil: Good means they place others above themselves, evil means they will trample over others to get what they want, and neutral is simply pouting oneself first, but without the tendency crush others underfoot without mercy if doing so makes the path easier. Then taken to the liberal use that chatic and lawful are, evil is always taken to the extreme you rarely see a character listed as ‘evil’ that is only kind of evil, if someone is evil, they can kill a baby, not even filch and that’s the accepted norm; a neutral character might have no qualms with ruining someone’s livelihood, and thus their life for their own gain; by the descriptions I’ve seen of evil, that’s borderline if not across it.
[One of my commonly used evil characters will work, at his own detriment, if certain lines are crossed; the character is still an incarnation of evil, but even a devil can have morals that make sense, twisted or otherwise]

…As for Alexander acting apparently at random, See twisting his character >_<
Chaotic neutral, in his case, meant he held his own freedoms, rights, and privileges above the written law, and if he could break a law to make them greater, he would while at the same time, obeying them while convenient to do so. However, do to his goal being a high position is a structured and organized system, much of the time disregarding the law would lessen his privileges if not his freedoms and rights, thus he was not supposed to do so as willy nilly as other CN characters would normally[/sblock]
  As of right now, I’m presently bouncing some background ideas in my head, I’ll have to hind the info thread and then see where I stand :3


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jun 14, 2012)

So, in other words, nowhere nearer to having a character than before?


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## Sugar_Silk (Jun 17, 2012)

Busy week for everyone?

I'm still here, I was just kinda waiting to see how [MENTION=82679]Myth and Legend[/MENTION] was going to respond...


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## Deskjob (Jun 18, 2012)

_*looks up from his banana hammock*_

Just chillin'.

_*lowers his grass hat over his eyes and goes back to napping*_

.

.

.

_*snores*_


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## jackslate45 (Jun 18, 2012)

*wakes up from his desk, mumbles something about sleeping at work, and gets back to work*


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## HolyMan (Jun 18, 2012)

Deskjob said:


> _*looks up from his banana hammock*_
> 
> Just chillin'.
> 
> ...




Umm... did you miss the mention in the new game thread?

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/325043-catch-secert.html

HM


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## Deskjob (Jun 19, 2012)

Oh, sorry.  I've disabled the [MENTION=84205]Deskjob[/MENTION], mention feature in My Options a few weeks ago.  Lol.  ...Oops.  So yeah, I missed it.

I guess?  PM or VM from now on?  Haha.  Thanks HM.  That is just what I get for finding those little things annoying.  I miss the important stuff too.


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## Zerith (Jun 22, 2012)

hmmm,   Ok, I’ve got to say that when I stumbled over spellfire I was going “eeeeee! Matches the character concept!” but I’m a bit unsure as to if this would be alright; one side it seems to be of relatively limited use (not too many mages and magic items to use in this setting I would think); but when it is useful could be a game changer that can play havoc on a mage’s battle plan, until they figure the gimmick out and then deal with the character with AoE spells and other such means, or just ignore th character every time the character readies spell fire :/
[If it’s ok I would then like ask to have spell absorption changed from a readied action to a free one, but then also have the spell function normally, or have it so that the save must be passed to absorb the spells; including logical exceptions like healing and other beneficial spells. Could go into detail but I’m digressing here.]

Anyways, onto the character himself, I’m still leaning towards the idea of the character being a kin to the fey, and I’m thinking of having the Character come into the RP after exiting a fairy ring after spending a considerable length of time on the other side only to come out and find the mortal realm is simply mundane by comparison; perhaps even more so than when he left it.
If I recall right, in the fey realms time flows much slower, so who knows what things were like when he entered them? 

Also, just because I want to around the temptation of making text walls of speech, I’m thinking the character may have lost his voice in a bet ;3
Additionally I hope this will force the character to be animated and emotive rather than allowing the character to belittle more than a mouth piece.
(and since we’re talking about him losing a bet to a Fey, his voice might have been ‘graciously’ replaced by the sounds of a bell, flute and or other instruments as well… perhaps a harp! meh hehe he!)

I’m also bouncing around the idea of having the character acquire the half fey template, that some attain through exposure to fey magic by wotc cannon, over the course of several levels, but that might getting excessively excessive in this campaign setting :/

Btw, HM, if you would rather not deal with any of the above I could just roll a more conventional character :3


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## HolyMan (Jun 22, 2012)

Zerith said:


> Btw, HM, if you would rather not deal with any of the above I could just roll a more conventional character :3




That's like asking me if I want mustard on my burger.

Yay, duh! 

HM


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## Zerith (Jun 22, 2012)

Mustard?! Ketchup! make it ketchup! Ketchup is better!!!
Anyways, I'll make a character in the next day or two then, might still lean a lil onto the prevues character consent, but it will be muted ;3

~Das silly one


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## ghostcat (Jun 22, 2012)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]. I've sort of lost track so, how long have I been wearing my _Ring of Sustenance_ for at this point?  I see from the SRD that I need to have been wearing it for a week for it to start taking effect.


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## Zerith (Jun 22, 2012)

hmm, should I amuse I'm alowed to use above L1 wealth btw?  know this is a low magic campaign but I forget just were it falls ^_^;


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## HolyMan (Jun 23, 2012)

should have been more than a week game time ghostcat

___________________________________

You need to do your wealth as for level one then I will give you an item. Nobody has their WBL but I have tired to get them close.

HM


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## Zerith (Jun 24, 2012)

OH key, looks like I'm ending up with a highly mobile (50' speed ; ) melee fighter who is obsessed with combat and will happy show the proper way to use any weapon (Halved sword stances, high and low; the use of free hand in a duel, why not to use a 'standard' sword grip vs a fully armored foe, etc)

I'm thinking the character will be more then a 'bit' Nordic and while I wanted to make him be a bit over 7' tall and using monkey grip (and thus a large greatsword...) but it felt a bit miss placed in the campaign. so the character will be very tall for the campaign, but not freak-show tall. He will also be a walking arsenal (Disarming him or sundering his weapon is about as affective as tossing away actions ;3)

anyways, level one wealth keeps him with just studded leather armor, but that is not too  big of a downgrade (given that he will only be using light armor do to his emphases on getting into combat fast and swiftly working around to ranged characters, or stone walling those trying to get at his own none marshal allies unexpectedly)


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## Deskjob (Jun 24, 2012)

HM,

Can I just say thank you.  I know I've only been back to posting for like 4 posts.  But I really enjoy it and I wanted to thank you.

So yeah.  Thanks for letting me write with you.  

- DJ


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## HolyMan (Jun 24, 2012)

My pleasure Deskjob. 

Creating characters and getting to write about them is half the fun of pbp. And thank you for making this fun for me as well.

HM


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## Zerith (Jun 25, 2012)

Speaking about creating characters, he is a draft :3

```
[sblock=Character wip]

Barbarian 2, Fighter 1

Str 17 +3
Dex 14 +2
Con 14 +2
Int 14 +2
Wis  8 -1
Cha 12 +1

Size: Medium
Type: Humanoid (human)
Age: 23
Height: 6' 7"
Weight: 261 lb
Eyes: --
Hair: --
Skin: --
Description: --

  
Languages: Common, Giant, and Sylvan.
Proficiencies: Simple and Martial weapons, Light armor.
  
  Total hit points: ** (2d12 +1d10)
Speed: 50’
  
  Armor Class: 15/16 = 10 [base] + 2 [dexterity] + 3 [Armor] + 1 [Dodge]
  Touch AC: 12/13
  Flat-footed: 13
  
Initiative modifier:       + 2 = + 2 [dexterity]
Fortitude save:            + 7 = 5 [base] + 2 [Constitution]
Reflex save:               + 2 = 0 [base] + 2 [Dexterity]
Will save:                 - 1 = 0 [base] - 1 [Wisdom]
Attack (handheld, Normal): + 6 = 3 [BAB] + 3 [Strength]
Attack (missile):          + 5 = 3 [BAB] + 2[Dexterity]
Grapple check:             + 6 = 3 [BAB] + 3 [Strength]

[sblock=Attacks]Attack
Halberd              +6
Greatsword           +6
Guisarme             +6
Heavy flail          +6
Gauntlet             +6
-Gauntlet(Main Hand) +0
-Gauntlet(Off Hand)  -4
Daggers              +6
-Daggers (Main Hand) +0
-Daggers (Off Hand)  -4
-Dagger  (Thrown)    +5
Javelin              +2
-Javelin             +5

Damage
Halberd              1d10+4 20x3 
Greatsword           2d6+5  19-20x2 
Guisarme             2d4+4  20x3 
Heavy flail          1d10+4 19-20x2 
Gauntlet             1d3+3  20x2 
-Gauntlet(Off Hand)  1d3+1  20x2
Daggers              1d4+3  19-20x2 
-Daggers (Off Hand)  1d4+1  19-20x2
Javelins             1d6+3  20x2[/sblock]
[sblock=Feats]
Racal
[B]Fleet of foot:[/B] +10 land speed

Levels
[B]Nymph's Kiss:[/B] Fey creatures regard you as though you were fey.  You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-related checks, and a  +1 bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.  Starting with the level when you take this feat, you gain 1 extra skill  point per level.
[B]Fey Heritage:[/B] You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against enchantment effects.

Classes
[B]Fast movement[/B] (Barbarian, 1st level)
[B]Dodge[/B] (Fighter, 1st level)
[B]Improved Trip[/B] (Barbarian, 2nd level)

Trades
[B]Improved Unarmed Strike[/B] (heavy armor)
[B]Combat Reflexes[/B] (Medium armor)
[B]Defensive throw[/B] (tower shield)
[B]Quick Draw[/B] (Shield)

House Rule
[B]Persuasive[/B](House rule)[/sblock]

[sblock=Trades]
[B]Heavy armor[/B] for [B]Improved  unarmored strike[/B]
[B]Medium armor[/B] for [B]Combat reflexes[/B]
-From Both classes, would be too gamy to trade this off twice or trade it of once and still have it :/
[B]Defensive throw [/B]for[B] Tower shield[/B]
[B]Quick Draw[/B] for[B] Shield[/B]
-Again, from both,  ;3
[B]Handle Animal[/B] for [B]Performance (Weapon Drill)[/B][/sblock]
[sblock=Items]
Item             Cost   Weight

[B]Battle gear:[/B]             
Halberd          10 Gp  12 Lb
Greatsword       50 Gp  8  Lb
Guisarme         9  Gp  12 Lb
Heavy flail      15 Gp  10 Lb
Gauntlets        10 Gp  2  Lb
Daggers, 4.      8  Gp  4  Lb
Javelins, 2.     2  Gp  4  Lb
Studded leather  25 Gp  20 Lb


[B]Axillary gear:[/B]
Backpack         2  Gp  2  Lb
Water skin       1  Gp  4  Lb
Rations(5 days)  25 Sp  5  Lb
Bedroll          1  Sp  5  Lb
Soap             5  Sp  1  Lb
Flint and Steel  1  Gp 
Grappling hook   1  Gp  4  Lb
hemp rope.100ft. 2  Gp  20 Lb

Battle gear:            72 Lb
Axillary gear:          41 Lb

Light Medium Heavy
0-86   87-173 174-260[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills]
Skills     Rank Mod Misc Total
Bluff       0   +1  +2   +3
Climb       6   +3       +9
Intimidate  6   +1  +2   +9
Jump        0   +3  +8   +11
Listen      6   -1       +5
Performance 6   +1  +2   +9
(Weapon Drill)
Ride        5   +2       +7
Survival    5   -1       +4
Swim        3   +3       +6
[/sblock][/sblock]
```


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## Axel (Jun 26, 2012)

[MENTION=99953]Zerith[/MENTION]

You're forgetting the most important bits!  What's this guy/gal's name, and what does he/she look like?  Names are by far the best part of characters.  If it's a he and Slavic/Norse themed you can borrow an old favourite of mine "Slobadan Makokyavich".  Maybe PG13 rated, but still, he was a good character with fond memories.

Incidentally, humourous names in RL games are pretty common with my group.  We just wound up an Oriental themed PF campaign where Fak Mi Ma fought alongside Chou Fat Wang, Tsukomai Dong and Phar Que (pronounced Par-Kway...where was your mind?).  I'd love to know if any others have such a gutter-brained gaming group or not (though I am far from the noblest of the group...).


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## jackslate45 (Jun 26, 2012)

Zerith said:


> *Nymph's Kiss:* Fey creatures regard you as though you were fey.  You gain a +2 circumstance bonus on all Charisma-related checks, and a  +1 bonus on all saving throws against spells and spell-like abilities.  Starting with the level when you take this feat, you gain 1 extra skill  point per level.
> *Fey Heritage:* You gain a +3 bonus on Will saving throws against enchantment effects.
> 
> Classes
> ...




Don't you need combat expertise to get improved trip?


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## Zerith (Jun 26, 2012)

In reverted order!
Wolf totem barbarian, 2th level, gets it regardless of requirements ;3
..I just forgot to mention I'm using that variant

Name will likely be Folkmar <*something*>: however I want to draw the character first before setaling on anything: I don't want to say he has a tri pointed beard if he ends up with a duel or single pointed one. as his hair/eye color might change while I draw, so meh :3
Here is a past incarnation of Folkmar, as the warrior mage
[*have a proper last name that fits, but I is too lazy to drag it up just yet*]

As you can see, he has an axe staff, and he will gladly use it! 
Anyways, not sure exactly what he will end up looking like, but it's not something that I ever ignore ;3


Btw, noticed I forgot to add the armor check penalty, it's taken care of for the next draft though


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## Zerith (Jul 7, 2012)

Well, name changed (Thorkel, brownie points if you know his 'title' ) and I might post him up without the picture, because I is lazy and drawing mail takes ages...

Anyways, I'm thinking of giving him a bloodline: Intermediate Frost Giant to name it. (would have got with major but there is none for Frost Giants >_<)
I'll probably pick up his first bloodline level at 4th level, he is coming in at level 3 so he is already at the upper end of his  groups level average, don't need him rushing ahead too fast :3
So, general vote; yes or no on bloodline?

If yes, question for HM, would the skill points from human and Nymph's Kiss still accumulate during these levels and if so could the points be spent as if for the previous class?


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 7, 2012)

I vote no to bloodlines.  Work with the system that's put in place.


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 7, 2012)

So you'd be half-human, half-fey... half frost giant? Come on. 

How about getting a character in the game before you worry any more about advancement.

I swear to god you're just trolling.


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## Zerith (Jul 7, 2012)

SS: given that I've already gotten a character to 3th level in this campaign I'm not someone who just happened by and decided to troll :/
and were do you get this half stuff? I don't recall making a half fey half giant character, making one who, in his linage far up the line, had an ancestor who was a half giant and or fey (more likely one half few and one half giant) but we're talking so far past tense that the relation is not blatant (if I end up using the giant bloodline I would increase his height a bit more, but its not like I'd make his hair/skin blue)

Also, I don't see a reason not to say what I'm planing to do in the very next level, because otherwise I could do something very gamey if I do go with a bloodline. I'm tentatively planing on taking a level(2nd) of fighter, and if I do take the bloodline he would then be getting +1 str and two feats in one level, when the +1 str rises both attack and damage it seems a bit excessive for a single level up without any drawback. added bonus, giving him the 'dead' level early would also help lessen the difference between my PC and those who are still fresh into the RP helping HM to make challenging scenarios where my character can't go hulk smash all over the place while others, who are simply lower level, aren't too hard pressed to simply stay alive.

I'll admit I meant to be finished by now but I get side traced way to easily ^_^;
... I need to find a flash drive that works with my scanner so I can show you the WIP ;3

FtF: Nothing, to my knowledge, is said about bloodlines, much like character classes, it only seem to restrict races/templates I could be wrong though, so I'm asking the GM and other RP players what they think.
Anyways. Got a no from you and I'll count SS's comment as the same. 

___

Addon: Forgive the quality but I could not get the scanner to work, yet again, and instead just held it in front of my built in, lap top camera.
But here is a WIP
best part is, their is nothing over that chain shirt save for the _open_ cloak, oh joy, I get to hand draw how many lil circles to fill it out and then make it look vaguely 3d while avoiding putting down a hard dark line in the surrounding areas that are light? 
... it's taking a while...


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## jackslate45 (Jul 7, 2012)

What's wrong with a human barbarian with power attack and weapon focus?  or a merciful human cleric who does not kill any human, but will destroy demons and undead?  or a human rogue that sacrifices some skill points / a feat to get sneak attack as pathfinder's sneak attack?

My biggest gripe is you are trying to take the freedom of choice offered by HM, and running WAY too far with it. 
Be a human. If he has a giant as an ancestor, great!  roll play that by making him 7', bug strong guy. No templates, no bloodlines, no way to start as anything other than a human.


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## Zerith (Jul 7, 2012)

[FONT=&quot]At least I'm not also holding the scissors anymore! Also, part of the character concept is he can use just about _any_ weapon with ease, if he has dedicated himself to one weapon it means others are harder for him to use: changing from weapon to weapon without hesitation is something he likes to do, if he has a +3 to great swords only he does not want to use his other weapons anymore, dos he? He also would not want to change from it when he otherwise would. He is hard to page down and this also includes what he is fighting you with, so weapon spec/focus is a no no with his flavor 

Anyways, as I've said before, I work better with feedback, so review time due to general consensus and present state of mind.
__

General issues being spoken here is that Fey generally seems out of place, I’m going too high fantasy (yet again!) and I should avoid using things akin to templates, like Bloodline levels.
___

Fey was a holdover from the previous character concept and a bit of a placeholder, and after the giant heritage idea bounced into my head, I got to admit, it's a bit of pointless. Yet it helped to fix his lack luster, -1, Will save so I kinda kluge to it as it patched up his most glaring weakness.
This frees up two feats(from Nymph's Kiss and  Fey Heritage)



I've been kind of hesitant to ask this, given the previous race restrictions and the +1 LA, but I've been pondering the idea of making the character a Goliath in stats only (possibly changing monstrous humanoid to humanoid, but I’m also then tempted to take the Goliath barbarian rage variant, and if it’s combined with enlarge person it could lead to a huge sized PC >_< 
Then again it could be ruled the two don’t stack  )

If this is too far out there I can just use one of the two emptied feats into monkey grip and the other into iron will*, If it’s all right though I’ll take off the level of fighter  for now and readjust accordingly :3
[*I would pick up power attack instead, but monkey grip is like a permanent power attack you can’t turn off that needs more expensive, heavier, weapons to basically come out behind(-2 attack for a one dice size increase in damage, there are feats that basically give you that without the hit that is like losing W.F. and G.W.F.), and his will save needs the boost :/]
Won't mind either way though, your call :3



Also, HM, I know you wanted me to make the character using L1/starting wealth, but could I barrow against whatever magic items you were going to give the character for mundane gear? (I want to up size his weapons, thus doubling their costs,  give him a chain shirt, and possibly make the chain shirt M.W.  ^_^; )



Anything else and your guys thoughts? 

____

Addon: found the regional feat "Jotunbrud" from Races of Faerun, going to run it if as well if the Goliath thing dos not work out :3
[/FONT]


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 7, 2012)

What exactly do you mean by 'in stats only'? Just the Con and Str bonus? Or you mean you would take all the traits and abilities of the race but would just appear in the game as a human... in which case why not be a full *Pit Fiend* _in stats only_?

Also, that Jotunbrud is crazy! All the benefits of a large creature without any of the downsides?!

Characters have weaknesses. All of them. Their flaws are what make them fun and unique. Stop trying to fight it.


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## Zerith (Jul 7, 2012)

> What exactly do you mean by 'in stats only'? Just the Con and Str bonus?



 Given that I was commenting on changing Monstrous humanoid to humanoid, but was worried about a possible complication/cheese because I have to admit, I like the game mechanics from the Goliath's rage variant, I think its plain to see I meant the whole kit and tackle.




> Or you mean you would take all the traits and abilities of the race but would just appear in the game as a human... in which case why not be a full Pit Fiend in stats only?



Because:
Full pit fiend is way outside of ECL 3.
Adds aspects that are utterly unrelated to the character.
Etc.

A Goliath's stats on the other hand just give off the feel of "big", they have higher strength and con, sounds like your average bigger character to me, and the lower Dex also makes them behave more like a large character (easier to hit). They can use a large weapon normally, again, like a large character. all in all they just feel like more weighty characters.
The mountain movement  is a bit off track, but at the same time, it does not clash with anything either; I do like the idea that one aspect would make him a little harder to fool and that he is use to cold areas*  fits the character nicely ;3
(*In this RP the only real chance we have for cold weather is high altitude)

But I’ve also more or less said that, while I would prefer to use a Goliath’s stats, it’s no skin off my back if HM says no. 
I’m a 'bit' oblivious so, HM, if you feel iffy about it, at all, just tell me, and I’ll post up the amended, fully human, character in a short while :3
... or after I finish the description in my slow ass way ^_^;
(Not using Goliath now would be even less of an issue now that I’ve found  Jotunbrud, with it and monkey grip it really helps to fill out the character’s feel of size )


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 8, 2012)

To be clear, Pit Fiend was not an actual suggestion! The picture I meant to paint was: I think it's ridiculous to choose another race and just have them 'look human'. Human stats are what make a human. If you want to make a super strong Human, he is going to be deficient in other areas. If you are that concerned with your will save, drop CHA a bit or something instead of trying to weasel in a non-human character... again.

Remember last *MONTH*?



Sugar_Silk said:


> BE A HUMAN! ROLL YOUR STATS AND LET'S PLAY!




That's right, almost a full month since that simple, easy to read plea. I don't understand whats so ____ing hard about this. Maybe the joke is on me? I keep taking the bait...


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## Zerith (Jul 8, 2012)

I try to make the character around the concept, not the other way  around, Thorkel is a battle monger, seeking out conflict for the sake of  conflict is not exactly wise, meanwhile he can be compelling; people  tend to give a little extra weight to the words of the the guy who makes the next tallest look positively short.
His stats are there to stay if he is rolled as human

As for making a supper strong human with deficits in some areas, kinda why I want to use Goliath stats, he would have a strength score in line with what I think he should have, namely he would be as strong as a 'stronger then average Gnoll'(IE, any Gnoll speced as a warrior or the like), and their something in his weight/size bracket. meanwhile he would  have a LA that gives him other deficits. its not like he would be getting something for nothing.
You can't tell me you can look at a Goliath's stats and not think 'large'

Anyways, I'm leaving it in HM's cort, game play wise he would basically be simply larger in ever respect, he still will be as a 'pure' human but then we would have to find a RP reason why he and Pius would be nearly as strong when Thorkel is not raging :/

Also, if there is a joke, it is most certainly on me...


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## Fangor the Fierce (Jul 8, 2012)

I say let be what he wants, enter the game, we kill him off for being a 'monster' or for some obscure reason, and then he starts over!  Yes - that was a joke!

It seems that you want the game to allow you to play whatever you want, as you like 'tough' concepts.  I say think of it this way:  If you are so intent on playing things that are a challenge for you, that don't fit the 'norm', then why not adhere to the rules everyone else has done with so far, and play a human, with human blood, and within the current system?  Seems to me that adhering to THAT type of character would be the most challenging for you, possibly your first time in doing so as well.  4+ pages of reading from your character concepts seems to lean that way..

Hell, why not even make him an idiot, or 'challenged' and make him THINK he has giant blood, or fey heritage, or gnoll lineage.


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## Zerith (Jul 8, 2012)

Well, I'm about to ramble, you are so warned

None human president has been reached already; we've had a half elf PC, both in stats and in fluff :/

In regards to simply making him think he is decedent from something exotic, he does not really care about his basically unknown ancestors; if they were important enough to know about he would have heard songs of them by now.
As for making him stupid: one that makes him stereo typical and two it invites meta gaming on my part.
I might see an intelligent solution to a problem that my character should not be able 'see' do to his sub par Int score, acting on this once in a great while is one thing, but if my character ends up reliably solving puzzles, or finding the clue that ends up solving them, it kind of breaks the illusion of "what would my character do" and makes it "what would I do?" thus spoiling it.
I could do it, but it would take a lot of mental discipline on my part... and there’s the rub.


As for the Gnoll bit, their an example of something that ends up his general size: he is a PC and a generic PC crushes a Generic NPC of a comparable size/race, look at CR and it’s the theme, and is close to/on par with a named NPC across the board, possibly with a light advantage if there in the same CR as the PC's level(baring things like dragons were the inverse is true)

So without the use of feats, or other things that augment size/hight:
Think of a humanoid race with an average build, 5-6’ tall with a racial Str of +4 or more…
Think of a humanoid race with an average build, 7-8’ tall with a racial Str of +2 or less…
I can’t think of one for either, I’m not an expert though so there could be many, but I see a natural  consensus in DnD that bigger means higher str, and con by default. Might find the odd thing that throws this in the wind, but it’s not the norm.

As a 'strait' human he can edge out a full on generic, non-warrior, Gholl in strength, if he takes a hit elsewhere, an elite one or one that is simply got a Joe smoe warrior, is stronger than him, and a bare-bones named Gnoll would over shadow him in what should be his greatest strengths even though it would make sense that he should be able go toe to toe with one in raw brawn, maybe not beat one, but at least go toe to toe with it as a real threat that needs to be dealt with as opposed to a weakling that needs to be pushed aside.
[Side note, given the generic human men at arms stats HM is using, as a base, a Gnoll warrior would be stomping in at about 19 Str, 13, Dex 18, Con, 6 int, 15 Wis and 6 Cha per standard to maintain relative CR ; ]

Also, as I've said before, I take enjoyment from characters that are different from me, because the chalange me to think from another point of view: naturally a bit of my personality bleeds though, but that is just part of Role playing. Honestly, I was just going to dust off Alexander at one point, the misadventure with the epic foobar in it never finished so in retrospect it can basically just be written off, with perhaps a footnote or two addressed latter on at his expense to make him cringe. This was, if I recall right, given a resounding no; he meet everything you guys wanted though :/
The side note to this is that I don't want to make a character similar to him again in the same RP, so yeah.

I've also thought of having him get a feat, sculpt self, and then basically buy large size with EXP, but doing it that way basically means he can be shrunk back down by a dispel check opposed by a CL of 1, and that seems very, very random and unfitting of the campaign would at large. Meanwhile, in this low fantasy campaign, we have mages, alright, its still a fantasy campaign after all; a guy who works for a dragon, and it seems to be personally active in the RP's greater plot and passably a few more dragons if what I skimmed through is right; and more than likely a few other instances of things that aren't exactly low fantasy/rules as initially written*.  Meanwhile, you guys are saying a character that is simply naturally, if majorly, bigger and bulkier is a no no?  
[*I would list the half elf here, but the character is interesting enough as the trigger to the war to justify it]

Character wise he would still be a human, just far bigger then then normal, as it stands this part is happening regardless and no one has chimed in about it one way or another, so the RP side of this is not the issue anyone is making at all; the issue is the skeleton of stats I’m hanging the character on. I want the character to be, blatantly, stronger than normal, just as he is blatantly larger than normal, he is well built and can’t stand up in an average house without hitting his head I would think there would be a equal difference between what he and the average man can lift. (As such his ‘normal’ stance is much shorter than his full height out of habit).
This is not even really an issue of the character being stronger than his pears, we have characters above level 6: you just can’t compare a +4 net stat gain to being 3 levels, or more, behind.

The real issue is: should the extra-large character be extra-strong? And I’d love to see an argument for no beyond “the race isn’t listed in this big list as human” yet in the end it’s HM’s RP, his world, and his choice and I’ll abide by it with either verdict.


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 8, 2012)

Zerith said:


> So, general vote; yes or no on bloodline?




No from me. Bloodlines are a mess. Bringing in those poorly-written rules would be a mistake.



Zerith said:


> part of the character concept is he can use just about _any_ weapon with ease, if he has dedicated himself to one weapon it means others are harder for him to use: changing from weapon to weapon without hesitation is something he likes to do, if he has a +3 to great swords only he does not want to use his other weapons anymore, dos he?




Before I launch into my own diatribes, I’ll offer a piece of assistance with this, as such a matter is poorly supported in the Core rules. Tome of Battle offered a class with a feature called Weapon Aptitude. It allowed a character to change their weapon-specific feats with an hour of practice with a new weapon. Not switching easily at the drop of a hat, but closer than anything else in the books.



> General issues being spoken here is that Fey generally seems out of place, I’m going too high fantasy (yet again!) and I should avoid using things akin to templates, like Bloodline levels.




High fantasy isn’t the issue. Going too far afield with your concept and mechanical execution is the problem.



> I've been kind of hesitant to ask this, given the previous race restrictions and the +1 LA, but I've been pondering the idea of making the character a Goliath in stats only (possibly changing monstrous humanoid to humanoid, but I’m also then tempted to take the Goliath barbarian rage variant, and if it’s combined with enlarge person it could lead to a huge sized PC >_<
> Then again it could be ruled the two don’t stack  )




The inability to be targeted with Enlarge Person is one of the balancing factors of the Goliath. Removing that restriction increases its power level significantly. Incidentally, Monkey Grip and anything resembling Powerful Build don’t stack (3.5 FAQ , page 51).



> Addon: found the regional feat "Jotunbrud" from Races of Faerun, going to run it if as well if the Goliath thing dos not work out :3




Congratulations on finding yet another stupidly-powerful feat. And this time, it’s even setting-specific! 



Zerith said:


> I try to make the character around the concept, not the other way  around,




And you go out of the established rules to try to make the character as absurdly powerful as possible. Stop going to CharOp boards.



> As for making a supper strong human with deficits in some areas, kinda why I want to use Goliath stats, he would have a strength score in line with what I think he should have, namely he would be as strong as a 'stronger then average Gnoll'(IE, any Gnoll speced as a warrior or the like), and their something in his weight/size bracket. meanwhile he would  have a LA that gives him other deficits. its not like he would be getting something for nothing.
> You can't tell me you can look at a Goliath's stats and not think 'large'




The average gnoll is STR 15. You can outdo that with the point-buy without bringing in extra material and mucking things up. Work within the established confines and politely ask for extra material. Don’t go rampaging about with “Ooh, shiny new splatbook here! Web enhancement there!” and then beg for this stuff to be included, just because you found it and want it to make a super-charged character.



Zerith said:


> Well, I'm about to ramble, you are so warned
> 
> None human president has been reached already; we've had a half elf PC, both in stats and in fluff :/




And that character was discussed with HM before being made and wasn’t involving all this extraneous insanity.



> As for making him stupid: one that makes him stereo typical and two it invites meta gaming on my part.
> <snip>
> I could do it, but it would take a lot of mental discipline on my part... and there’s the rub.




Stereotypes exist for a reason. They can serve as an easy entry point and foundation. And it rather seems like you could use some exercise with mental discipline. It isn’t hard to ignore a possible clue. Other players in other games do it all them time. 




> So without the use of feats, or other things that augment size/hight:
> Think of a humanoid race with an average build, 5-6’ tall with a racial Str of +4 or more…
> Think of a humanoid race with an average build, 7-8’ tall with a racial Str of +2 or less…
> I can’t think of one for either, I’m not an expert though so there could be many, but I see a natural  consensus in DnD that bigger means higher str, and con by default. Might find the odd thing that throws this in the wind, but it’s not the norm.




Yeah. And? Use your character creation points to start with a higher STR. A normal (non-hero) human’s STR is, at best, 13. A gnoll (your apparent measuring stick, for some reason) is STR 15. Both are easily surpassed with the points you have at your disposal. Quit trying to slide in things beyond the scope of the presented framework.



> This was, if I recall right, given a resounding no; he meet everything you guys wanted though :/




Mechanically, sort of. He could be a face. But his personality was so incredibly grating that no one could stand him. There was the issue. And from the way you spoke, it seemed like there would be little to no character growth from beyond “spoiled brat having to face tough situations.”




> Meanwhile, you guys are saying a character that is simply naturally, if majorly, bigger and bulkier is a no no?




Because of the mechanical workings of the character. You have methods to make your PC stronger than most people, but you refuse to be content with those methods. Instead, you search for ways to scrape out every little advantage and try to press new materials into the campaign. 



> the issue is the skeleton of stats I’m hanging the character on. I want the character to be, blatantly, stronger than normal, just as he is blatantly larger than normal




I believe I’ve described the “normal” strength of people already. You have ways to do this without dredging up more splatbooks.



> This is not even really an issue of the character being stronger than his pears, we have characters above level 6: you just can’t compare a +4 net stat gain to being 3 levels, or more, behind.




And your character won’t be joining straight in with the higher level ones. And if you stick with the campaign like us advanced players have, you’ll even up with us eventually. Hell, with HM being so much more generous with XP over time, you’ll probably catch us without too much time or hassle. 



> The real issue is: should the extra-large character be extra-strong?




Extra strong is completely possible without delving into LA races, SLAs, and Bloodlines. Work with the tools you have instead of trying to build a new toolbox.


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 8, 2012)

This is my favorite part:



Zerith said:


> Honestly, I was just going to dust off Alexander at one point... he meet everything you guys wanted though :/
> The side note to this is that I don't want to make a character similar to him again in the same RP, so yeah.




As if the one race limitation forces you into anything less than a BILLION freaking possibilities.



Zerith said:


> Also, as I've said before, I take enjoyment from characters that are different from me, because the chalange me to think from another point of view: naturally a bit of my personality bleeds though, but that is just part of Role playing.




There are many different points of view among humans. Maybe play as a slave? Or an amputee? Maybe you're blind! Play an old man! Play a noble lady! Shiftless gambler! Fallen priest! All these examples are angles I'm sure are very different from your daily life.

Take away exotic physical characteristics, and all the time spent describing your ears or your tail or whatever, and I bet you'll find all the characters you've played have exactly the same personality. I accuse you of over-reliance on racial gimmicks. I question your ability to play an interesting human character, and I challenge you to prove me wrong.


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## Zerith (Jul 8, 2012)

And that closes them off by vote unless every other active RPer comes in and starts saying adds them 
__


> Before I launch into my own diatribes, I’ll offer a piece of assistance with this, as such a matter is poorly supported in the Core rules. Tome of Battle offered a class with a feature called Weapon Aptitude. It allowed a character to change their weapon-specific feats with an hour of practice with a new weapon. Not switching easily at the drop of a hat, but closer than anything else in the books.



I’ll look into that class from ToB :3
__


> High fantasy isn’t the issue. Going too far afield with your concept and mechanical execution is the problem.



… Yeah… ^_^;
__
I’ll agree there, possibly just say he is simply immune to EP/RP, I just don’t want to give him immunities a human should not (hold person for example)
__



> The inability to be targeted with Enlarge Person is one of the balancing factors of the Goliath. Removing that restriction increases its power level significantly. Incidentally, Monkey Grip and anything resembling Powerful Build don’t stack



I never intended to take it along with powerful build, I was planning on taking it, along with the Jotunbrud feat, in place there of.He is supposed to be big; he is _not_ supposed to be Cloud.

__



> Congratulations on finding yet another stupidly-powerful feat. And this time, it’s even setting-specific!



As is fleet of foot (+10’ speed), never been an issue with fleet of foot so I’ve just been figuring it was all right to use them unless told otherwise at character creation.
__



> Yeah. And? Use your character creation points to start with a higher STR. A normal (non-hero) human’s STR is, at best, 13. A gnoll (your apparent measuring stick, for some reason) is STR 15. Both are easily surpassed with the points you have at your disposal. Quit trying to slide in things beyond the scope of the presented framework.



In this RP, the averages are higher than normal, all I meant to do was apply the Gnoll racial stat modifiers to the stats HM supplied for an average fighting man but I rushed andyeah…


HolyMan said:


> *Men at Arms:*
> medium humaniod (human)
> Hit Dice: 1d8+5 (9 hp)
> Initiative: +1
> ...



Meanwhile a stock CR ½ human warrior is 13 Str, 11 Dex, 12 Con, 10 Int, 9 Wis and 8 Cha, HM’s has a +5 net modifier advantage.

I did not pull them the gnoll stats out of my ass, but yeah I had to do something right then so I rushed and did not proof read it, thought it looked high, but oh well ^_^;
It should have been:
Str 19, Dex 13, Con 16, int 8, 12 Wis and 6 Cha

The Str is still high as heck, and we’re talking about a run of the mill Gnoll warrior, a named Gnoll could reach 22, 23 with two class levels
__



> Mechanically, sort of. He could be a face. But his personality was so incredibly grating that no one could stand him. There was the issue. And from the way you spoke, it seemed like there would be little to no character growth from beyond “spoiled brat having to face tough situations.”



I was mainly frustrated because I twisted his character into that :/
__



> Because of the mechanical workings of the character. You have methods to make your PC stronger than most people, but you refuse to be content with those methods. Instead, you search for ways to scrape out every little advantage and try to press new materials into the campaign.



If I simply wanted to make an overpowered/gimmicky character using Defensive throw, he would have maxed Str and Dex, he would have a heavy shield, a one handed trip weapon, or no weapon at all, and as heavy of armor as he could without breaking the armor’s Dex bonus cap, so that he could get off trip attempts left right and center to his Opponent. A high AC is key for getting the optimum use out of Defensive throw, at this point his AC won’t break 18 regardless of what happens, and that is with dodge. Also it gets worse with rage, but it could have been made stronger with frenzy, normal rage fits the character beter so that’s what he uses. There is also the issue of: its useless if the chosen opponent dos not take the bait or if he is swarmed. If can make for an exceptional dullest, but by large it’s not a one all be all.
The character’s ability to make trip attacks in general is powerful, as a strait human, the only thing that notes the character as an above average PC tripper would be Jotunbrud, but a character can get it and improved trip at level 1 without any house rule trades :/

Quick draw is handy for a tripper but it’s not needed either, you can drop your trip weapon and then draw a spare another one

Then we have Monkey grip… this feat is not all that and a bag of chips, an exotic weapon feat is generally better all-around if you’re ok with the loss of versatility, as you can get the same dice damage size increase, but also keep your to attack modifier intact, and the -2 is basically a loss of 2 feats, so when its used you’r basically getting -1 feats worth. Highly optimized when you can just take power attack and trade  2 attack for 4 damage, a great sword with monkey grip and you’re looking at an extra 1d6, or 3.5 damage,  and you can turn it off whenever needed or power it up when you know you’re still going to hit.
The only advantage to it over Power attack is you can use it to increase the attack power of light weapons, but you can’t use it on offhand weapons so it’s a moot point, you just getting a light weapon with the damage of a 1 handed weapon and a -2 to attack that you can’t duel wield, meanwhile most weapons won’t get the +1d6 that a great sword dos.
It is a lack luster feat that is more fluffy then anything unless your already at large size or larger.
Then there is the added bonus of paying more for weapons and having them be real heavy, given my character is going to be using a good few, this is a real issue for my character, with normal weighted gear he is 16lb from his max light weight without something to augment his max weight…

I’ve got to admit tough, combat reflexes, improved trip, and a reach trip weapon is nice, with Jotunbrud  it is very powerful as he can just trip things when they move in his extended AoOs, but again it’s something achievable by level 3 without extraordinary means.

Oh yeah, the 14 Int  and 12 Cha is  very optimized for a melee monster…
__



> Stereotypes exist for a reason. They can serve as an easy entry point and foundation. And it rather seems like you could use some exercise with mental discipline. It isn’t hard to ignore a possible clue. Other players in other games do it all them time.



I shall now quote super kami guru on a related subject not unrelated to exercise: “Oh ___! Natural light!”
 But seriously, if the RP was more story light, possibly, but big and stupid comes in two basic flavors: smash everything and peaceful giant and  I don’t really care to RP either for a prolonged period, 

__



> Extra strong is completely possible without delving into LA races, SLAs, and Bloodlines. Work with the tools you have instead of trying to build a new toolbox.



Yep, in fact he will be dealing with lower level ones, and while its easier for him to use defensive throw on weaker enemies, if they have brains they swarm him while the one he is paying attention to just defends itself and it’s negated anyways :3
__



> Extra strong is completely possible without delving into LA races, SLAs, and Bloodlines. Work with the tools you have instead of trying to build a new toolbox.



But I like building things :3
__

And now for something I should have asked HM about earlier!
Something that fits with the character and is not meta at all!

*Doomfuly gleeful face of joyness!*

Oh Holy Man!



Could I make a trade to increase the character’s affective size in regards to his carrying Capacity?
It would be equivalent to a 5 point increase in strength in this regard in case you were wondering :3
(I feel kind of stupid for not asking about this earlier since it fits so dang well and lets him show off raw brawn :/)
__

Addonith!

Just noticed SS's post....

So, it is on!
Though making the character blind, mute or crippled is a similar crutch, Hmm, have not used my Drunken Cleric in a years.... well, since I did WoW... years and years really, time to figure out how to work with spells chosen at the dawn :3

__

The gerbal is running, the wheel is flying backwards and we might end up with a pally or a healer instead.


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 8, 2012)

I am so lost.

I can't keep up with all the contradictory statements, misspellings, circular logic, cliche's, and what I'll safely assume are quotes from obscure anime.

Are you still pushing for mods to Thorkel, or are you making a paladin now? Remember that I said _*play*_ an interesting human, not just pointlessly construct one.


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## Zerith (Jul 9, 2012)

Yes, That.

But  seriously, I Loath playing: generic PC #5479 .
Yet thinking about it now, I've never played a cleric/pally, and they have to deal with treating their enemies with Mercy, even when the know the one they show quarter to can betray their trust and might very well have earned a brutal death; their compelled by their nature to spare the life of the wicked, once they surrender, even though they know doing so might place the innocent, that their oath bound to protect, at needless risk.

It seems like an interesting angle: so at this point I'm leaning towards it.
Honestly, I'm still open to Thorkell, but I'm also open to this newly forming character and it seems like the new one can get accepted with less hair splinting


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 9, 2012)

Zerith said:


> But  seriously, I Loath playing: generic PC




The not-yet-created PC is only generic because you insist it is so. Personality quirks are what make one person truly different from another. 

Just make a character from CORE rules and give them a few interesting personality quirks. Quit delving for obscure, pointless, power-hungry extra material.


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## Zerith (Jul 9, 2012)

... So, I say I'm going to make a cleric, a pally, or a _Healer_ and one of the first things you think of is that I'm going to make it over powered :/
I was thinking about some feats from the book of exulted deeds(I’m not planning on picking up Vow of Poverty though) and maybe a little content from UA(I'm just wondering if he should pick up nimbus of light at creation or level 6)

Much latter on, at level 8 at the soonest (he will be using human paragon for a long sword ;3), I'm also pondering the prospect of having the character pick up geomancer(would likely have him pick up sorcerer with utility/buffing spells to qualify) and then sub out some drift affects for comparable changes that befit an angelic theme, the level one shifts for things like golden irises and perhaps tiny dove wings (that would be under his clothing all the time anyways) for example, but we’re talking more than likely a RL year or more before this comes up as a real possibility, he might just end up simply progressing as cleric.
[No celestial blood shenanigans here, just a favored holy servant... not running favored soul though, fyi :3]

As for the character himself, he was never going to be generic in personality.
He will be a ‘bit’ eccentric and naïve as to the workings of the world, good natured,  and innocent with a bit of bashfulness among other traits. (He can also get a bit preachy...) I think he and Darling would be able to play off each other rather well.
Meanwhile the character I’m planning also thinks true evil is none existent and thus despises the act of killing; he understands it fully, but at the same time he simply can’t justify it. (yep, he will have Subduing Strike :3)
__

Addon: I think I might see about the feats in CD as well now that I think about it ^_^


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## Dragonwriter (Jul 9, 2012)

Zerith said:


> ... So, I say I'm going to make a cleric, a pally, or a _Healer_ and one of the first things you think of is that I'm going to make it over powered :/




Because of your track record, yes. Look at all the stuff you dragged out for your proposed characters -- the stuff that has kept you from getting into the game. Stop hunting down extra feats and PrCs, and just make a mechanically-simple Core character with some personality quirks to make them interesting. With all your talk of wanting to have a "challenging character," it seems like this would be your greatest challenge yet. 

And I feel the need to point out, when you dredged up the Man at Arms example... That is not an average person. That is a professional warrior, and he is built with the Elite Array. He should also actually be CR 1 due to the stat increases. Don't use Elite Array NPCs as your baseline. And even so, your STR could have easily surpassed them.


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## Zerith (Jul 9, 2012)

Welp, the character is presently running:
Str 11 +0
Dex 12 +1
Con 12 +1
Int 14 +2
Wis 16 +3
Cha 15 +2

Sacred Vow
Vow of Nonviolence
Subduing Strike
Intuitive Attack
Negotiator

as a Cleric 1, Human Paragon 2
[if I had recalled H.P. sooner that would have made things simpler ^_^; ]


As for my track record, it seems to only include characters I've simply talked about and not the one I've used; he had Able Learner and ObtainFamiliar as far as none PhB1 feats went.
Highly fair :/


And as for the man at arms: their cannon as a standard, unnamed, NPC, with the same overall ability scores as a mere 1/4 CR villager (You can find them, Men at arms and the knife ears on page 3 of the rogues Gallery)
[sblock=Villiager]
medium humaniod (human)
Hit Dice: 1d4+3 (5 hp)
Initiative: +1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 11 (+1 Dex), touch 11, flat-footed 10
Base Attack/Grapple: +0/+2
Attack: +2 melee (1d6+2 simple weapon)
Full Attack: +2 melee (1d6+2 simple weapon)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: none
Special Qualities: none
Saves: Fort +1, Ref +1, Will +2 
Abilities: Str 14, Dex 12, Con 13, Int 8, Wis 15, Cha 10
Skills: Profession(any) +9, (second skill based off profession) 
Feats: Skill Focus (profession), Toughness
Environment: any
Organization: community 10-50
Challenge Rating: 1/4
Treasure: none
Alignment: any
Advancement: by class[/sblock]
The big thing was I wanted him to have about the same Str as a named NPC that was about his size, if I had thought about it then, I would have just had him work his way to H.P. 3 for another 2 and that would nug his str into the ballpark :3

Anyways, back onto point, dos the present PC's core stats look alright thus far? (I'm not looking for any trades beyond maybe a skill swap or two at this point, just so you know.)
But I think I won't be using H.P. for a long sword on second thought, maces work better in regards to Pelor 
I'll likely just pick up heavy shield use as a weapon with it ^_^


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## Deskjob (Jul 10, 2012)

*Hey pal*

[sblock=Zerith]Hi Zerith.  I'd like to ask you to pass all your future ideas by HM 'before' you post them here.  This is the OOC year 3 for the 'Off to War' Campaign.

_Not, 'Zerith's Private Feedback Corner for Freakish Character Builds'._

Please construct your character in private with HM, or start a new thread conversation elsewhere.  Thanks.[/sblock]

This conversation is being continued via PM.  Lol.  Thanks for your patience.

- Dj


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 11, 2012)

HolyMan said:


> [sblock=OOC] Will be starting a skills like challenge for acquiring the soldiers outfits. I need you all to decide when and from whom to try and get three of the white tabards with the blue bear on them.
> 
> *Time:*
> - During the days march.
> ...




I've got a question! 

Are you intending that we each acquire our own tabbard, or should we be working together to get three all at once?


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## HolyMan (Jul 11, 2012)

Three at once. I'm sure the boys could use the kind of help only Darling can supply.

HM


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## Deskjob (Jul 12, 2012)

HM

How do we decide on what to do?  I imagine all three of our characters would hatch this crazy plan IC, right?  Or does the Dwarf offer up this plan and instruct our PC's to carry it out?  Then we would follow through IC or something with sneaky posts?  Does the challenge end when we have the clothing in our possession, or do we have further steps to accomplish along the line?

Can you please expand upon what you would like us to post next.  I need your mind's eye for a minute.  I can't write what I can't see.  Lol.  

- Dj


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## HolyMan (Jul 12, 2012)

I was going to leave it up to the three of you to come up with your own idea. Mostly to allow to see who wants to "take the lead" and give you all some added RP time together. Laying out your skills to each other will also help to build that party bond.

I limited the who and where down because you literally could have played it a hundred different ways and I need at least a little heads up. But remember no plan survives contact with the enemy.

HM


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 13, 2012)

I decided to get the IC ball rolling. 

Darling's strengths are mostly social. Bluff,  gather information, charm and persuasion. (+17 to Diplomacy!) She also makes a pretty good distraction with a song or some sleight of hand. If things come to blows though, it's mostly up to the boys...


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## Axel (Jul 14, 2012)

Well, Rodric's a little confused at what he can do.  Ostensibly, as a cleric of a god of war, he's pretty good at sticking remorseless pieces of metal into other people.  At 3rd level, not as good as a 3rd level fighter, though at least he can heal afterwards (I miss PF clerics already...).  

Anyway, outside combat, applicable skills are really only Profession (Soldier).  Not that clerics get many skill points anyway.


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## Deskjob (Jul 17, 2012)

HM,

I vote for 'Night' and pickpocketing 'Soldiers' from your list.  Let's see what everyone else votes for.

- Dj


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 17, 2012)

Soldiers at Night does sound like more fun.


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## Axel (Jul 17, 2012)

Spoken like a true army whore.  

Short of physically removing uniforms from cold, dead corpses I can't see too many other options here.


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## Sugar_Silk (Jul 17, 2012)

I'll reply to Rodric's sensible sermon in the IC tomorrow. <3

Messing with the soldiers would be thrilling, but I'll agree that the civilian approach is probably better for our communal health. 

HM can I use bardic knowledge again to see if Darling has heard of anyone useful amongst the wandering rabble?


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## Axel (Jul 17, 2012)

Fair enough.  One of the worst aspects of having a lawful aligned, high wisdom character is having to be sensible and cautious.  My first ever 3.5 character was a chaotic neutral barbarian.  He was sooo much fun, but a complete and utter liability for the party.  Happily, he still lives, at level 15 these days.  Even if he doesn't get out much anymore.  Probably a testament to the abilities of the two clerics in that party.    

Your approach has merit, don't discount it if Darling is willing.  It's the old honey trap...soldier comes in expecting a happy ending.  Finds he is mugged at sword point by two burly blokes, best timed after he's taken his clothes off.  Problem is exactly as outlined IC...what to do with the soldier after?  Rodric would be happy enough to kill them.  But that poses further problems...

BTW, is anyone else bothered by the thread title typo "To Catch a Secert"???  It's been driving me nuts for a week since I noticed.


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## Disposable Hero (Jul 19, 2012)

[MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION]- I have my character awaiting a once over from you sir...but a nice background has escaped me. I had a direction but it seems to be lost to me now and will add to it after a bit of roleplay it thats ok. If not I will get one in asap.


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## HolyMan (Jul 19, 2012)

I'll check him over tonight I have to head to work in an hour. (yuck)

And welcome aboard.

HM


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## Deskjob (Jul 21, 2012)

Well my free summer of May, June, and July is quickly coming to an end.  And since our adventure hasn't really started yet, I'll step out before it does.  So, bye bye again.

HolyMan, thanks for the fun times.  You helped make every free moment I had into an adventure.  Oh yeah!

Best wishes all.  I'm going back to my...

- Deskjob _*wink*_


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## HolyMan (Jul 21, 2012)

Sorry to hear it Deskjob. 

I'll keep your spot warm for your next break from the old RL monster.

I can't believe it is already the last week of July. This year is flying by.

HM


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## HolyMan (Jul 24, 2012)

Sorry for the delays folks, but work is trying to kill me slowly. 

Just a 24 hour bump for Marching Orders as I'll hopefully catch up on everything by tomorrow night.

DH - Your character is ready for RPing so I will be introducing him in the low level game shortly. I'll hopefully get through approval before any rolls need be made. 

Note on background and such. We have been playing duskblades as an elite elven organization that didn't wish their secrets being taught to outsiders. But that was only if you specialized in spiked chain fighting.

Your character could be more of a natural duskblade and thus not need to call himself one if asked, RP-wise. You can say your just a natural spellcaster who's abilities also extend into combat.

HM


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## Sugar_Silk (Aug 3, 2012)

Hey guys, just thought I'd let you know that I'm going away to a hot-spring for the weekend!


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## HolyMan (Aug 16, 2012)

Well it is with great regret that I must inform everyone that this game is being canceled.

Reasons are many and it's nobody's fault but mine. I really can't seem to get into the 3.5 mentality. And dread when I have to dig out one of those books to look up something. I probably should have waited to tackle something this grand once more. I don't seem to have the time to put the research into this as I would like. And works not helping - They tried to call me in today (and after 46 hours already this week). 

Running published adventures are easy - the group tells me what they wish to do and then I spend 20 minutes looking over the module and then post what their actions do to effect the game and I know what is around the next corner (so to speak) - but this is different as most of it isn't even thought all the way through. Sandbox is a mild term.

I really played off the players and what they posted. I mean I had nothing about dragons in the game till FtF created his character. Even Zerith (can't believe I'm saying this) gave me inspiration to right up the gnoll pantheon and the Gates of Death, which was to be a higher end adventure.

But it seems I don't have the time offline to once more spend on this as I once had.

Again I am sorry, and I wish everyone happy gaming when and where ever they play. And success in everything they do.

Yours Sincerely,

HolyMan


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## Axel (Aug 16, 2012)

I'm sorry to read all of that HM.  Your Off to War campaign was my first PbP RP, and still my favourite I think.  Through it you dragged me into a Pathfinder campaign, which has had huge changes on my real-world gaming.  

So, what I'm trying to say, I think, is thanks.  Thanks for giving a n00b a chance.  Thanks for putting the time in over 2-3 years to run an unlimited campaign world.  Thanks for enduring my non-American spelling of words (surely they must grate on you as much as Americanised spelling grates on me).  And thanks for a good time.

Nobody else could've or would've run such a world for so long or so consistently.

Don't be a stranger around the boards!  

Cheers, 
Axel


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## Sugar_Silk (Aug 16, 2012)

feel bad for not posting anything for a while... I certainly didn't expect the whole campaign to be cancelled! 

 [MENTION=84167]HolyMan[/MENTION] : Sorry your job is trying to kill you. Thanks for all your hard work, and for helping me get started here! I had a blast!

I have really enjoyed playing here with everyone, and meeting such creative people. This was the only PbP game I had active, so if anyone knows of a game where I might fit well, or is looking for a player please let me know!


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## jackslate45 (Aug 18, 2012)

I am sad as well to see this go.  However, I can understand the long hours (We have all been there).  This was by far my favorite 3.5 game of all time!

We'll see most of you in LPF, but the rest of you, come join LPF!


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