# 4E Campaign Announcement Time/Date



## Hawke (Aug 9, 2009)

I looked at wotc's schedule but I didn't see an obvious "here is where we're announcing." As I'll be at work all, I'm eager to hear it and am wondering when I can expect o hear something.


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## darjr (Aug 9, 2009)

My bet is that it'll be during the Dragonlance 25th anniversary celebration.

Or during the Friday 'D&D 4th Extravaganza'.


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## kitsune9 (Aug 9, 2009)

darjr said:


> My bet is that it'll be during the Dragonlance 25th anniversary celebration.
> 
> Or during the Friday 'D&D 4th Extravaganza'.




Yeah, I'm thinking it will be Dragonlance as the next campaign setting. We should do some spreadbetting or pools on the next campaign settings for the WotC years.


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## valeren (Aug 9, 2009)

I'm guessing based on the ampersand article that the next setting's spelled as one word.  That puts Dark Sun out and leaves either Dragonlance or Spelljammer.

It's probably Dragonlance but I'm not discouting out Spelljammer with the release of the githzerai and the other stuff regarding the Astral plane...

I may be totally wrong though.  It might be Dominaria or Alara...


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## Thaumaturge (Aug 9, 2009)

Perhaps with a "4e Modern" announcement as well.

Thaumaturge.


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## Mark (Aug 9, 2009)

Dragonlance has its supporters but seems to have a huge number of detractors, as well.  I am guessing they have done the smart thing and gone with something original.


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## I'm A Banana (Aug 9, 2009)

Yesh, Dragonlance is kind of a 50/50 toss. Some evidence, but nothing conclusive. 

I doubt it's a new setting, since one of the points we know is that old schoolers will be happy about it. I can't see old schoolers getting THAT excited about a new setting. 

I'm not persuaded it is one thing over another yet. I'm half-expecting DL, but I am totally prepared to be wrong, and I wouldn't say I've got a big reason to expect that.

They'll probably reveal it Sunday or some such. Dangling their bait in front of us all weekend.


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## Nymrohd (Aug 9, 2009)

Well if old schoolers are to be happy about it it would have to be Greyhawk or Mystara.


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## The_Fan (Aug 9, 2009)

The longer into the week it is before the big announcement the less likely it is Dragonlance and the more it is something different. I'm guessing Dragonlance is the most likely, but I'm still holding out hope for Dark Sun.

I'm also thinking it's possible they could take a third option and go Urban Arcana, but that wouldn't please old schoolers. Not at all.


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## Theron (Aug 9, 2009)

valeren said:


> I'm guessing based on the ampersand article that the next setting's spelled as one word.  That puts Dark Sun out and leaves either Dragonlance or Spelljammer.




Or Greyhawk.  Which would certainly please THIS old-schooler.


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## Shroomy (Aug 9, 2009)

I see a lot of people speculating that it will be Dragonlance or Dark Sun, but I suspect it may be Greyhawk.  It would definitely generate more buzz out of Gen Con than the other two.


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## darjr (Aug 9, 2009)

Yea, Greyhawk would be a big splash. With me anyway. And I imagine the hubub would be deafening. 

Still, it is the 25th anniversary of Dragonlance, it would be a shame not having a 4e setting.


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 9, 2009)

Greyhawk would be a bigger media event.  It would create a splash and would create a huge buzz about how good or bad they will pull it off and who is writing on it and who is developing it.  How will they introduce the core is everything set of races and classes?  In my opinion, a new Greyhawk could be bigger than FR or Eberron.


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## Shroomy (Aug 9, 2009)

Exactly, and I think the idea of Greyhawk with renewed, continuing support (of the overt kind and outside of the RPGA LG campaign) would appeal to a lot of gamers who wouldn't normally be interested in 4e offerings...just the sort of people who could be further enticed by a $5 PHB promotion at Gen Con.

Besides, if it is Dragonlance, why release the iconic enemy race from the setting six months prior to its probably Summer 2010 release?  They couldn't wait six months?


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## ggroy (Aug 9, 2009)

With the planar "Plane Above" and "Plane Below" books being scheduled for release, maybe a setting like Planescape or Spelljammer.  Maybe even a single setting which cherry picks various aspects of Planescape and Spelljammer?


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## Hawke (Aug 9, 2009)

I hope so bad isn't Dragonlance or Greyhawk. I can't see enough "new to the table" to be too excited about those. I'd love to see them treated later in the product cycle when it might make more sense to do 2 campaign settings a year (2011?) 

My thought is it will be something new but perhaps with elements of a (maybe even a spiritual successor) former setting. Easiest might be a new setting that is heavily tided to planes/spelljamming w/o it simply being "Planescape."


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## Shroomy (Aug 9, 2009)

The thing is that elements of Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer have all been combined into the core cosmology.


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## Andor (Aug 9, 2009)

kitsune9 said:


> Yeah, I'm thinking it will be Dragonlance as the next campaign setting. We should do some spreadbetting or pools on the next campaign settings for the WotC years.




I bet 10 experience points it's Spelljammer. Giffs FTW!


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## ggroy (Aug 9, 2009)

Shroomy said:


> The thing is that elements of Planescape, Ravenloft, and Spelljammer have all been combined into the core cosmology.




Then call the new setting RavenPlaneJammer.


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## Acid_crash (Aug 9, 2009)

I am putting fake money down that it will be Spelljammer or Planescape.  I would cry if it's Dragonlance, we got so much of that during the 3.5 era that I'd love to see something different.  

The notion of Greyhawk never even entered my mind, but after all the high magic stuff we've been getting lately going back in time to Greyhawk would actually be really cool.  

But, I think the biggest shocker they can announce would be Scarred Lands.  Nobody would ever see that one coming and that would surprise the hell out of a lot of people.


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## Mark (Aug 9, 2009)

I think the old schoolers who do not play 4E will be drawn in by a 4E Greyhawk and those who do play will mostly be skeptical about its implementation should it come to pass.  There are probably fewer entrenched old schoolers in regard to Mystara.


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## Rechan (Aug 9, 2009)

Making it Greyhawk will make no new friends. Greyhawk is incredibly difficult to make, since it's got a lot of lore at different periods. It's another "Kitchen Sink" world, with not a whole lot new stuff to offer. Not to mention it's not got a "gimmick" to hang its hat on. And I'd wager that most of the Greyhawk fans are still sticking with 3e. 

WotC, I feel, cannot win with making Greyhawk. They're not going to pull Greyhawk fans into 4e, and they're more than likely going to anger those that like the setting.


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## Cam Banks (Aug 9, 2009)

It isn't Dragonlance.

Cheers,
Cam


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## The_Fan (Aug 9, 2009)

Well, I guess that's as close to official as we will get. Doesn't verify Dark Sun though...hrm...

Whoo! Urban Arcana!


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## Hawke (Aug 9, 2009)

Cam Banks said:


> It isn't Dragonlance.




Well there you go! 

I thought early on they stated FR, Eb, NEW... I think with all the newness of 4E there deserves to be a setting to embrace all it's glory w/o having to retcon or advance timelines, etc. As much as I want Dark Sun (unlikely) I think 2010 New 2011 Dark Sun would be the way to go.


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## ggroy (Aug 9, 2009)

The_Fan said:


> Well, I guess that's as close to official as we will get. Doesn't verify Dark Sun though...hrm...
> 
> Whoo! Urban Arcana!




A 4E version of d20 modern would be cool.


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## Mercutio01 (Aug 9, 2009)

Cam Banks said:


> It isn't Dragonlance.
> 
> Cheers,
> Cam



I wondered when Cam would pop in.  I would feel badly if WotC ripped the Dragonlance world away from Margaret Weis Productions.  I think Cam and the others at MWP did a far better job on Dragonlance as a campaign setting than TSR did.  *I* certainly purchased more DL material from them.


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## I'm A Banana (Aug 9, 2009)

If it's not DL, my best guess is Greyhawk. 

I am very much hoping it isn't Dark Sun, though. There's a 75% chance of a 4e Dark Sun setting making me quite angry.  25% chance they'll pull it off, I guess.


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## Aloïsius (Aug 9, 2009)

Dark Sun... We want it my precious.... And we don't care about the cruel grognards with their glowing eyes, no, we don't care at all !


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## ggroy (Aug 9, 2009)

DarkRavenPlaneJammer


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## cignus_pfaccari (Aug 9, 2009)

The_Fan said:


> Whoo! Urban Arcana!




Oh please Lord no.

That was the lamest setting EVER.  I know, opinion, but still.

Brad


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## Nai_Calus (Aug 9, 2009)

Kamikaze Midget said:


> I doubt it's a new setting, since one of the points we know is that old schoolers will be happy about it. I can't see old schoolers getting THAT excited about a new setting.




I don't know, as much as they completely butchered Forgotten Realms, the news that they *weren't* destroying another old setting would be a relief for fans of it. 

I'm hardly old school since I'm 25, I was like 11 when the setting came out, but I like Planescape, for example. I shudder to think what a 4e treatment would do to it and honestly hope that what they've kludged into 4e so far is gonna be the extent of it.


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## The_Fan (Aug 9, 2009)

Problem with UA was that it tried to be like PoLand for the Real World. It failed at that because unlike other modern fantasy settings like World of Darkness, it was too disconnected, refusing to use real locations or entities even when it would make sense to do so. Later books attempted to flesh it out better, as well as some excellent Polyhedron articles, but the damage was done and the system was dying.

If they were to tighten it up and make it an actual setting instead of a generic framework for a setting, that would probably work a lot better. Anyway, anything else on this subject should be forked.


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## Aloïsius (Aug 9, 2009)

Nai_Calus said:


> I'm hardly old school since I'm 25, I was like 11 when the setting came out, but I like Planescape, for example. I shudder to think what a 4e treatment would do to it and honestly hope that what they've kludged into 4e so far is gonna be the extent of it.




That's something I will never understand... The old books won't be burned by WotC fire squads. If a new edition of a setting is published that does not fit your taste, just ignore. The very idea that peoples prefer that their setting die of neglect rather than differs from their cannon is strange. 

It's somwhat obvious that a 4e Dark Sun would be very different from the 2e version. The rule system is completely different and the core assumption of the games would imply change. So what ? The new version can as well be more interesting than the old(s). And if it is not, you can just plunder what you need and keep the old background.


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## ssampier (Aug 9, 2009)

*pure speculation*

The 4e setting is:

(drum roll please)

It's old school 1e Forgotten Realms 

It won't be called that, of course, but you'll have the greatness of FR without the baggage of 4e, 3e, or 2e stuff.

A big win.


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## I'm A Banana (Aug 9, 2009)

> I'm hardly old school since I'm 25, I was like 11 when the setting came out, but I like Planescape, for example. I shudder to think what a 4e treatment would do to it and honestly hope that what they've kludged into 4e so far is gonna be the extent of it.




I'm not much older, I'm a huge Planescape nut, and I think PS4e could be pretty solid, actually. The multiverse being "only a model" works well in Planescape, since distances and relative layout are basically meaningless (you can't walk from the Abyss to Carceri, without passing through some portals). Assuming everything still exists, somewhere, and that Sigil is the center of the campaign, you can get a lot of milage out of 4e PS. The one thing that would need to change is that "tieflings" would be re-fluffed for the setting, away from their Sword & Sorcery 4e change toward a more "urban outcast" feel for PS. 

But I think the chances of seeing an official PS4e setting are pretty low. Planescape elements are being worked into the core, so I don't know what a setting book would hope to add that a "Philosophical Power" splatbook couldn't add. I also think that's why Ravenloft and Spelljammer are fairly low on the list: the stuff is core, now, and not off on it's own. 

Greyhawk I wouldn't worry too much about. Dragonlance would probably be fine, too. I doubt Urban Arcana would find its way in (too modern), though I wouldn't be too surprised to hear some sort of Modern 2.0 system in the works unrelated to the next setting. Dark Sun I could see, but I worry about it, because it is dumb to make the setting fit the "everything is core" straightjacket of 4e, and, IMO, that would reduce the awesomeness of the world by a very large degree. 

I don't trust Dark Sun to WotC's current plans. I could see most other settings that they would do working fine (Ravenloft would suffer the same fate, but I don't think they're likely to do a Ravenloft setting). DS would make me nervous. They would have to show me flexibility when it came to making the setting trump the rules, which they haven't. With FR, they showed that they were eager to make the rules trump the setting, in fact. If they've reversed that philosophy, it could work and be good, but Eberron kept that philosophy (even if it used a lighter touch), and nothing so far has demonstrated any sort of intention to reverse it or a questioning of their own belief in it. 

I am concerned, because Dark Sun should not be a world that I would expect, for instance, any player characters with the Primal or Divine power sources. It would go a long way to ruining the feel. But 4e's philosophy to date has been to make the setting fit the rules. Which is problematic here (but it certainly isn't everywhere).



> It's somwhat obvious that a 4e Dark Sun would be very different from the 2e version. The rule system is completely different and the core assumption of the games would imply change. So what ? The new version can as well be more interesting than the old(s). And if it is not, you can just plunder what you need and keep the old background.




So it wouldn't be _Dark Sun_. It would be some other post apocalyptic setting that ripped off Dark Sun. If you're going to do that, you might as well drop the Dark Sun name and trot it out as something "Dark Sun-Esque" without essentially ripping off the title.

If you're going to call your setting Dark Sun, make it Dark Sun, or call it something else. It's like the whole Archon or Eladrin debacle. If you're going to use a name, it should convey the same meaning, and if it's a new thing, it should have a new name, not the same name as something else just because your crew lacks enough imagination to throw letters together without making it NounVerb AdjectiveVerber. 

I'd have respect for a dark-sun-inspired setting that still worked with 4e's default assumptions. I don't have respect for someone putting ripped shorts and bronzer on an Eladrin and saying "HEY EVERYBODY IT'S DARK SUN!"


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## Obryn (Aug 9, 2009)

I think Spelljammer seems the most likely, right now.

Dragonlance is another contender.  Dark Sun is a third.  For some reason, though, I can't shake the feeling that it will be Spelljammer.

-O


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## Kelon (Aug 10, 2009)

Dark Sun (HOT, HOT SUMMER) or perhaps KaRA Tur - Oriental Adventures


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## Mark (Aug 10, 2009)

Planescape is already represented in 4E, no?


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## Shemeska (Aug 10, 2009)

Mark said:


> Planescape is already represented in 4E, no?




A generic 4e PoL cosmology exists, but it isn't Planescape. Different cosmology, different in-game history, no Blood War, the goofy 4e alignment system, etc. It ripped a few scattered things out of Planescape, but then scrubbed off lots of details like serial numbers for a stolen gun at a shifty pawn shop. They warped things to fit the 4e default, rather than adapting the 4e rules to fit setting material, which is utterly backwards to me.

They've put Planescape through the 4e setting chopshop to plug bits into the default PoL World Axis cosmology, which to me makes it pretty clear that they won't release a 4e Planescape, because it would compete with the 4e default cosmology.

It's really a pity that they did the generic 4e cosmology before they knew the reaction that their treatment of FR would gather, and then presumably learned some lessons about what not to do to settings (which they seem to have learned at least some things on for 4e Eberron). If they had, they might have left Planescape alone or actually done a Planescape setting as itself. I don't think the current design team would handle Planescape well (the 3e Planar Handbook and BoED came largely from the same group, and were not exactly received well), especially given the design precepts in 4e that so far seem to dictate that settings will adapt to core 4e, with setting detail and continuity taking a back seat to force-fitting generic 4e concepts in.


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## Shemeska (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> I think Spelljammer seems the most likely, right now.
> 
> Dragonlance is another contender.  Dark Sun is a third.  For some reason, though, I can't shake the feeling that it will be Spelljammer.
> 
> -O




I wouldn't wish that fate on Spelljammer fans, and I don't think the setting would be a financial success for WotC since it strikes me as much more of a niche setting (and WotC doesn't have the late and brilliant Nigel Findley to write for Spelljammer now).

Mean as it sounds, if the 2010 setting is Spelljammer, I'll call it now that there will be another round of Xmas layoffs at WotC.


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## Fallen Seraph (Aug 10, 2009)

Personally for me a 4e Planescape without the Great Wheel and Alignment being a actual force in the universe would be perfect for me. Since well that is essentially the Planescape my group has always played.

My hopes personally go:

Planescape
Spelljammer (if it was to be reimagined I would love to see it be one with Aether Ships and such, very Steampunkish/Pseudoscience style)
Dark Sun


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## Pour (Aug 10, 2009)

Please, please, please may it be a new setting. So much is spent every edition trying to recapture the old settings. Great though they are, better to utilize 4e's strength as an easily adaptable rule set to apply to older, existing setting material (or 3rd party material) and instead focus on new worlds.

In the spirit of 4th edition and its aim to draw in new audiences, create a world for the new audiences, generate interest through the unknown, through anticipation, and maybe win some on-the-fence fans in the process. I can speak for one existing fan by saying I'd be pleased with a new world.


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## I'm A Banana (Aug 10, 2009)

> Different cosmology, different in-game history, no Blood War, the goofy 4e alignment system, etc.




IMO:

Cosmology: Semantics. Astral plane, astral sea, limbo, elemental chaos, above, below, in between, it doesn't matter. 

In-Game History: "Clueless Prime" stuff + mostly unimportant legacy material. Sure, primordials and deities might be very important for the Clueless, but PS takes a broader view, where gods and primordials and demon princes and lords of the nine and whatever are all just part of one big "things you should not try to punch in the face" kind of being. A lot of the early 1e history and such, while interesting, isn't important to the play experience of Planescape, so I can see leaving that ambiguous: it's there if you want it, but there's not much of an impact on the current setting.

No Blood War: This is "advancing the timeline" plus the "clueless prime" stuff. There's an uneasy down-time in the constant war which may erupt frequently into all-out grand-scale warfare, just not frequently doing so on the Prime. As far as the Clueless are concerned, there's no blood war, but you'd be a fool to think that just 'cuz the Abyss ain't marching on Malebolge right this very moment that it means that everyone's all hunky-dory. In fact, this gives me a broader idea for making the fiends key antagonists in PS4e. Perhaps the yugoloths brokered a peace agreement in a scheme to unite the lower planes, and now they have to try and keep it together long enough to do something with it, while covert agents of Good work through adventurers to sew the seeds of conflict and rivalry in the armies of evil.

4e Alignment System: A savvy viewer sees that the 4e alignment system is just a slightly more abstract version of the alignment system 2e and 3e used. There are still beings of ultimate order and entities of eternal chaos, they just aren't called out as such in explicitly mechanical terms. I don't think the concept of, say, Bytopia hinges on any two-phrase keyword. It's personality doesn't change, and in 4e it's open to the forces of evil as well as the forces of (Neutral-Lawful) Good. 

I think PS4e could work for these reasons, and I am looking forward to running a PS4e game at some point in the future.


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## Obryn (Aug 10, 2009)

Shemeska said:


> I wouldn't wish that fate on Spelljammer fans, and I don't think the setting would be a financial success for WotC since it strikes me as much more of a niche setting (and WotC doesn't have the late and brilliant Nigel Findley to write for Spelljammer now).
> 
> Mean as it sounds, if the 2010 setting is Spelljammer, I'll call it now that there will be another round of Xmas layoffs at WotC.



Remember that settings aren't the investments they used to be.  A 4e setting isn't an ongoing product line with support ad-infinitum.  It's a pair of books and an adventure.

FWIW, I think 4e could do right by Spelljammer very easily.  It's a wahoo setting - even moreso than Eberron - with a lot of chances for swashbuckling flair.  Honestly, I think it's a better fit for 4e than it was even for 2e.  High adventure is 4e's thing, and I can't think of many adventures higher than Spelljammer.


I'd also love a Dark Sun revival.  I wouldn't expect to love the entire setting, but seriously?  *I don't much care.  *I'd look at it as the best mechanical toolbox possible for the setting flavor in my original box set.  Frankly, TSR already did crazy and unpalatable things to it - so it's not like I even enjoy where they left the setting off.  I would give it a fair shake, though - like I said, even where Dark Sun left off is hardly Dark Sun at all.

NOW.  With that said, I don't see what new races and classes Spelljammer would need.  Honestly, I don't know how they'd fill a Player's Guide.  I mean, there's Giff, but really who cares much about them?  Dark Sun has a much clearer collection of unique races & classes to offer.  Also - elemental power source, anyone?

-O


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## ggroy (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Remember that settings aren't the investments they used to be.  A 4e setting isn't an ongoing product line with support ad-infinitum.  It's a pair of books and an adventure.
> 
> ...
> 
> NOW.  With that said, I don't see what new races and classes Spelljammer would need.  Honestly, I don't know how they'd fill a Player's Guide.  I mean, there's Giff, but really who cares much about them?  Dark Sun has a much clearer collection of unique races & classes to offer.  Also - elemental power source, anyone?




If there's not enough interesting stuff to fill a setting Player's Guide, they could in principle change plans and just release the Campaign Guide and one module for such a setting.  In lieu of a formal Player's Guide hardcover book, they could release a 32 or 64 page "gazetteer" softcover book for the setting.

Who knows?  They could even break the formula, and release two settings next year in the campaign guide + module format.


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## Mark (Aug 10, 2009)

Shemeska said:


> (. . .) there will be another round of Xmas layoffs at WotC.





That's likely to happen anyway.  And we'll know there's a new edition in the works by the spate of hirings that take place a couple of years before it's release.  The corporate cycle is inevitable.


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## Nai_Calus (Aug 10, 2009)

Aloïsius said:


> That's something I will never understand... The old books won't be burned by WotC fire squads. If a new edition of a setting is published that does not fit your taste, just ignore. The very idea that peoples prefer that their setting die of neglect rather than differs from their cannon is strange.




No, they aren't going to come and burn my Planescape books if they do it. Problem is, the new version is going to be the one you're most likely to encounter as a player. It's 'new', it's what people have access to without expensive as hell stuff on eBay, it's going to become the most common thing.

Take FR. Say I want to join a FR game. Say I can't stand D&D 3.5 anymore and would rather stab myself than play it(Which is true). Most FR games I'm going to find, then, are going to be 4e. Most of them are going to be using 4e FR. I don't want to play 4e FR because it's an abomination, so I have to find either someone running an older version of FR under 4e rules, someone still doing 1e or 2e AD&D, or play an edition I don't like at all. 

So say Planescape 4e does come out, say it does make me facepalm like it most likely would. Guess what I'm probably going to find? 4e PS games. No one's going to take my 2e PS stuff away, but I'm not really going to be able to play original-style PS either.

I could DM, yes, and run whatever I want however I want, but I hate DMing.


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## Cam Banks (Aug 10, 2009)

Regarding Dragonlance, you know what's most important and significant and personally meaningful to me is that this is the 25th anniversary of the setting. This year, with the release of Dragons of an Hourglass Mage, and the last few books in a collection of trilogies coming in, this year's the big silver.

They could shock everybody and release a Dragonlance sourcebook next year, and an adventure, and a campaign guide. But it's so not my concern at the moment. I mean, can't we celebrate what it is and was and could be this year, and not take all of the celebrations as hints as to a 3-book product line the year AFTER its anniversary?

Cheers,
Cam


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## CasvalRemDeikun (Aug 10, 2009)

Cam Banks said:


> Regarding Dragonlance, you know what's most important and significant and personally meaningful to me is that this is the 25th anniversary of the setting. This year, with the release of Dragons of an Hourglass Mage, and the last few books in a collection of trilogies coming in, this year's the big silver.
> 
> They could shock everybody and release a Dragonlance sourcebook next year, and an adventure, and a campaign guide. But it's so not my concern at the moment. I mean, can't we celebrate what it is and was and could be this year, and not take all of the celebrations as hints as to a 3-book product line the year AFTER its anniversary?
> 
> ...



 So, Cam, what you are seemingly saying is that you don't know anymore than the rest of us on whether or not the next setting is Dragonlance.  I am not trying to be rude(I have the utmost respect for you, and would very much like to have your signature on my copy of the Sellsword), but people have been using your statement that next year is not Dragonlance as the definitive stake through its heart.


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## Silverblade The Ench (Aug 10, 2009)

Andor said:


> I bet 10 experience points it's Spelljammer. Giffs FTW!




Hurra that man! (or gnome, or dwarf!) 
And may the foul being who couldn't care about the noble giff race suffer wet and mouldy smokepowder, _pfft_!!! 

Giffness!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Giff_image.jpg/800px-Giff_image.jpg
http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/wildspace/characters/characters1realism.jpg

Dark Sun or Spelljammer, done _well_, would make me happy


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## tsadkiel (Aug 10, 2009)

Silverblade The Ench said:


> Giffness!
> 
> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/ff/Giff_image.jpg/800px-Giff_image.jpg
> http://www.silverblades-suitcase.com/wildspace/characters/characters1realism.jpg




Those aren't Giffs!  They're jpgs!


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## Mouseferatu (Aug 10, 2009)

tsadkiel said:


> Those aren't Giffs!  They're jpgs!




I am trying very hard not to hate you right now.











(Mostly because _*I*_ didn't think of it.)


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## Rechan (Aug 10, 2009)

If Spelljammer IS the new setting, well, then there's one thing I can say:

It's the giff that keep on giffing.


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## Andor (Aug 10, 2009)

You know, it could be a new setting. One that tries to tap into the emerging global consciousness about climate change and fear of enviromental catastrophe. One pre-built with horrid monsters, fear filled little communities clinging to life, and hugely expensive artefacts. Gentlemen I give you _Water World 4e_.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 10, 2009)

Thaumaturge said:


> Perhaps with a "4e Modern" announcement as well.
> 
> Thaumaturge.



Don't get my hopes up just like that!


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 10, 2009)

Nai_Calus said:


> No, they aren't going to come and burn my Planescape books if they do it. Problem is, the new version is going to be the one you're most likely to encounter as a player. It's 'new', it's what people have access to without expensive as hell stuff on eBay, it's going to become the most common thing.
> 
> Take FR. Say I want to join a FR game. Say I can't stand D&D 3.5 anymore and would rather stab myself than play it(Which is true). Most FR games I'm going to find, then, are going to be 4e. Most of them are going to be using 4e FR. I don't want to play 4e FR because it's an abomination, so I have to find either someone running an older version of FR under 4e rules, someone still doing 1e or 2e AD&D, or play an edition I don't like at all.



But here is the thing: If they don't have the 4E version of the setting, and the older edition version is too old, you won't find a game with FR or Planescape or whatever in the first place.

You just can't win, it seems.


----------



## Jack99 (Aug 10, 2009)

It's Greyhawk..


----------



## Obryn (Aug 10, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> It's Greyhawk..



Is it?  Where's that news coming from?


----------



## guivre (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Remember that settings aren't the investments they used to be.  A 4e setting isn't an ongoing product line with support ad-infinitum.  It's a pair of books and an adventure.




No, a setting IS an ongoing product. Just because after the first three traditional print books it goes all digital doesn't change that. WotCs plan is three print books then continuing support through DDI.


----------



## Cam Banks (Aug 10, 2009)

CasvalRemDeikun said:


> So, Cam, what you are seemingly saying is that you don't know anymore than the rest of us on whether or not the next setting is Dragonlance.  I am not trying to be rude(I have the utmost respect for you, and would very much like to have your signature on my copy of the Sellsword), but people have been using your statement that next year is not Dragonlance as the definitive stake through its heart.




They shouldn't. Anything is possible. However, this is the Internets. Until somebody from Wizards of the Coast tells you something, it's not true.

Cheers,
Cam


----------



## ggroy (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Jack99 said:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




If it is indeed Greyhawk, I wonder how many 1E AD&D grognards it can attract to finally play a game of 4E.


----------



## Obryn (Aug 10, 2009)

ggroy said:


> If it is indeed Greyhawk, I wonder how many 1E AD&D grognards it can attract to finally play a game of 4E.



My guess would be zero. 

Greyhawk would be a disappointing choice IMO.  I'd check it out, but I don't see what new stuff it would have to offer.  It's like the safest and most generic possible option.

-O


----------



## CasvalRemDeikun (Aug 10, 2009)

Cam Banks said:


> They shouldn't. Anything is possible. However, this is the Internets. Until somebody from Wizards of the Coast tells you something, it's not true.
> 
> Cheers,
> Cam



 Which they seem to be very good at not doing right now.

I wonder if they have something like this going on.

Penny Arcade! - On The Keeping Of Secrets


----------



## Jack99 (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Is it?  Where's that news coming from?




I am not allowed to divulge the source of information, because if I did, Mike and Bill would dress up as ninjas and come for him...




I have no idea. "It's Greyhawk" was my opinion, not a fact. I am personally rooting bigtime for Dark Sun, but have lost faith in DS becoming the next WotC setting.


----------



## Obryn (Aug 10, 2009)

Jack99 said:


> I have no idea. "It's Greyhawk" was my opinion, not a fact. I am personally rooting bigtime for Dark Sun, but have lost faith in DS becoming the next WotC setting.



Yeah, I could be wrong, but I think that the designers are looking for settings which will expand both the fluff and the crunch at the same time.  I'm clueless what additional crunch Greyhawk would have to offer...

Now, with that said, FRPG gave us the Swordmage, and I would have been just as much at a loss for ideas there.  But Greyhawk pretty much _is_ oldschool D&D.  Tons of great fluff, one of the best fantasy maps ever made, and a huge back-story... but it's a pretty bog-standard D&D setting, mechanically speaking.

Dark Sun has the most crunchy bits to exploit.  Spelljammer is up there, too.  You could make Dragonlance work, as well, but it's less mechanically interesting than the other two, IMO.  I'm puzzled as to what Greyhawk would offer.

So yeah.  50-50, Spelljammer/Dark Sun.

-O


----------



## ggroy (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Dark Sun has the most crunchy bits to exploit.  Spelljammer is up there, too.  You could make Dragonlance work, as well, but it's less mechanically interesting than the other two, IMO.  I'm puzzled as to what Greyhawk would offer.
> 
> So yeah.  50-50, Spelljammer/Dark Sun.




The new setting will be Dark PlaneJammer.  

It will be a new setting which cherry picks all the good stuff from Dark Sun, Spelljammer, and Planescape.


----------



## kenmarable (Aug 10, 2009)

ggroy said:


> The new setting will be Dark PlaneJammer.
> 
> It will be a new setting which cherry picks all the good stuff from Dark Sun, Spelljammer, and Planescape.



I'm there!


----------



## ggroy (Aug 10, 2009)

kenmarable said:


> I'm there!




And further cherry pick the good stuff from Ravenloft, and call the new setting DarkRaven PlaneJammer.


----------



## Rechan (Aug 10, 2009)

Cam Banks said:


> They shouldn't. Anything is possible. However, this is the Internets. Until somebody from Wizards of the Coast tells you something, it's not true.
> 
> Cheers,
> Cam



See, this is the internet. Even if WotC came out and said it, someone would say they are just trying to fake us out and/or lieing.


----------



## renau1g (Aug 10, 2009)

ggroy said:


> And further cherry pick the good stuff from Ravenloft, and call the new setting DarkRaven PlaneJammer.




Now this I like. It sounds like a wicked metal band....


----------



## ggroy (Aug 10, 2009)

Rechan said:


> See, this is the internet. Even if WotC came out and said it, someone would say they are just trying to fake us out and/or lieing.




Lies are truths.  Truths are lies.

Live on the X-Files channel.


----------



## ki11erDM (Aug 10, 2009)

First, to the OP. They sometimes give out info to the PRGA first, but I think it will be at the Extravaganza. Look for events with Bill Slavicsek, he will be at it, he is most likely the only one who can make the statement. If it is not at the Extravaganza the odds it is Dragonlance are about 95%.

Second, what are we considering as a ‘setting’ in 4e?

My definition is a unique World set in the general D&D cosmology. To me that means someone from FR or Eberron can go the same City of Brass or Sigil but that they are not originating from the same World.

Why is this definition important to this discussion? Because that would mean Planescape, Spelljammer, and Domains of Dread are NOT possible ‘settings’. I am sure they will (and have been) detailed in books and DDI articles, but none of them they are actual Worlds in 4e. They are aspects of the cosmology.

So, using my definition, only Worlds like: Dragonlance, Dark Sun, Greyhawk, or Oriental Adventures are possible as ‘settings’.

And I want all 4 of them… 

I am betting it is Oriental Adventures


----------



## Jack99 (Aug 10, 2009)

Rechan said:


> See, this is the internet. Even if WotC came out and said it, someone would say they are just trying to fake us out and/or lieing.




That's not the Internet, that's just ENworld...


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 10, 2009)

Planescape came out as a combining force for the various settings.  There already was Greyhawk, FR, Dragonlance, and whatever other "nameless worlds" the primes came from, such as "egypt-land" and "fake-china".  
        Spelljammer was another version of this, so various PCs could go to various other worlds.  I never got to play it, except in a pbem that was really disorganized... I'd like to, tho, as it looks really fun.

Oddly, Ravenloft also tried to do this, which I think was the downfall of the setting.  I mean, heck, assuming you could take a detour through the Domains of Dread, a prison plane that by definition *no one* should ever be able to leave?!    
    And then this started to happen regularly!  That and the setting started getting linked together into some form of cohesive continent.  AND they got rid of the original artist for the setting, replacing that art with scribbles that were, I thought, slapdash (excepting Steve Prescott for S&S's version, but that's 3e).  Moving on.

I want Planescape to carry on, as the art-style was what kicked the setting into high gear.  That and the comics in the back of the magazine (Downer) were great fun.
     I don't think they will YET because they're not linking-settings yet.  We'd need a few more settings in 4e first for that style of play.

On the other hand, the DMG2 is using Sigil as the default Paragon-level setting.  You'll have Sigil and the planes right there, and they've started using factions like the Mercykillers in DDI.  As such, maybe the setting will be used to more thoroughly entrench the POL setting in the planes.  I mean, Epic is planar; but Paragon there means it's just going to be assumed from now on.


----------



## ferratus (Aug 10, 2009)

Obryn said:


> You could make Dragonlance work, as well, but it's less mechanically interesting than the other two, IMO.




Unless of course you combined it with a Battlesystem/Heroes of Battle type rules for mass combat.

Which, I think you'd be crazy not to given WotC's system of releasing 2 setting rulebooks which primarily exist to add rules to the overall D&D system as much as they do to promote the setting itself.


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 11, 2009)

ferratus said:


> Unless of course you combined it with a Battlesystem/Heroes of Battle type rules for mass combat.
> 
> Which, I think you'd be crazy not to given WotC's system of releasing 2 setting rulebooks which primarily exist to add rules to the overall D&D system as much as they do to promote the setting itself.





That would be cool and annoying:  I would love a mass combat system right now, as my campaign is going to have one mass combat per tier.

Annoying: because I'm not a fan of DL... well, I liked the novels, but the development after Sturm died just lost me.  Meh.

Hope they have a Spelljammer section for fighting aboard astral skiffs!  I want my PCs to fight Githyanki on their own turf.


----------



## Saracenus (Aug 11, 2009)

ggroy said:


> If it is indeed Greyhawk, I wonder how many 1E AD&D grognards it can attract to finally play a game of 4E.




If you are talkin' 'bout the folks at Dragonsfoot, I would say next to none would come over to the 4e side.

If you are talking about the Canonfire crew (which is all over the edition and non-D&D map) there might be a few defections, but again I wouldn't think it would be many (mostly it would be some guys who are trying to get writing gigs with WotC). Those of us that are already playing 4e have started to put together Greyhawk conversion info on the website.

Beyond that, if someone is still stuck playing 1e or a retro clone, I really don't think that a 4e campaign of Greyhawk is gonna convince them to move on over. Frankly I think there is enough room for everyone's edition of choice.

My two coppers,


----------



## Sir Osis of Liver (Aug 11, 2009)

It could be Birthright, i suppose. I'd rather see that then Greyhawk, of course i'd rather see just about anything before Greyhawk. I just don't think that setting has anything new to add to the game. I think it'll be Dragonlance, but i'm still hoping for Dark sun. I think Planescape and Spelljammer are long shots.


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## fireinthedust (Aug 11, 2009)

It will not be Grayhawk:  

1)Paizo was the greyhawk development team for so long, and they did that for 3e.


----------



## guivre (Aug 11, 2009)

fireinthedust said:


> That would be cool and annoying:  I would love a mass combat system right now, as my campaign is going to have one mass combat per tier.




IPR :: Search results


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 11, 2009)

It will not be Grayhawk:  

1)  Paizo was the greyhawk development team for so long, and they did that for 3e.  The push for Greyhawk would likely not be there in the same way, and I could see it igniting more of the Pathfinder/WOTC bickering that's slowly dying down.  

2)  Gary Gygax has just recently died.  Changing the edition and cosmology of Greyhawk would be such a smudge of his work that it could go sour and be seen as an insult.  Granted, it was the 3e standard world, but he was still alive then.  It's just too soon for a lot of people.  If the FR backlash was bad, *any* changes here would be worse.  

3)  Enough Greyhawk elements are already in 4e that there isn't a point.  Consider the manual of the planes having absorbed Grazzt AND Tasha/Iggwylv (I should check the spelling on her name).  They're about as Core now as Ravenloft/Domains of Dread.  Vecna is in Open Grave, along with Strahd von Zarovich, as is Kyuss.  Dragonomicon 1 has Ashardalon's stats, as well as Dragotha.  
     Granted, that also sets Dragonlance out, as Cyan Bloodbane is in that one; however, the setting and novel is named outright.  

If they do pick one of the settings that have been swallowed by POL that opens the floodgates for ALL settings in POL, such as Planescape, Ravenloft, Spelljammer, Dragonlance, etc.
    The reason being that they're simply expanding the Core setting, or parts of the core setting.  However they do it, I expect that's how they may get around to it.

I predict that may be the direction they'll go in from now on.  Planescape/Spelljammer would be more viable because they have so many settings to swap between.  Heck, that would allow Core to include both Swordmages *and* Artificers, as there would be a route to putting all of them in the same world WRITTEN INTO the fabric of Core cosmology.

which means more books.

Hmm, more questions than answers.

As long as they don't do a "possible worlds" where variant versions of all the settings exist, like Sliders.  It's been done to death by comics.

I think original would be cool, but maybe not.

EDIT:  basically, I'm saying if they change settings, it will be to make all of them fit the planar cosmology AND add to the rules set (ie: the aforementioned Dragonlance mass combat rules) of Core.  That way *all settings will be part of one big setting called Core*.
     I think that would be a good thing, if only because they could sell all their settings books as core books; also, that was fun with Planescape and 2e.  Home games might be one setting only, but it could be done to have settings all over the place.

If so, I don't think they'll do utterly different Cosmology takes, like Eberron 3e's planes.  Maybe not, but it hasn't been a trend.


----------



## I'm A Banana (Aug 11, 2009)

I'd be cool with Greyhawk. Since I got into the game late in 2e, this would be the first version of the world that I could actually buy. There might be a few things you could exploit about the "old-school-ness" of the setting that 4e has pushed to the background, or only contains hints of. 

I'm not sure that it IS Greyhawk, but I'd be fine with that.

However, I do think the reasons above don't hold that much water. To wit:



> 1) Paizo was the greyhawk development team for so long, and they did that for 3e. The push for Greyhawk would likely not be there in the same way, and I could see it igniting more of the Pathfinder/WOTC bickering that's slowly dying down.




I don't think it's in WotC's interest to "quiet" anything down, and I don't think there's anything to ignite out side of message boards.  Indeed, if WotC was hoping to undermine Paizo's claim on the "real D&D experience", assuming Paizo even really has that claim, putting out Greyhawk would be pretty smart.



> 2) Gary Gygax has just recently died. Changing the edition and cosmology of Greyhawk would be such a smudge of his work that it could go sour and be seen as an insult. Granted, it was the 3e standard world, but he was still alive then. It's just too soon for a lot of people. If the FR backlash was bad, *any* changes here would be worse.




Going back to "Gary's Original Vision" would be a fitting homage to the father of our hobby, and satisfy most people who would be interested in a 4e Greyhawk. It would also let WotC very classily dedicate a book to the man's memory, especially if they anchor it in Gygaxian D&D tropes born of that first setting.



> 3) Enough Greyhawk elements are already in 4e that there isn't a point. Consider the manual of the planes having absorbed Grazzt AND Tasha/Iggwylv (I should check the spelling on her name). They're about as Core now as Ravenloft/Domains of Dread. Vecna is in Open Grave, along with Strahd von Zarovich, as is Kyuss. Dragonomicon 1 has Ashardalon's stats, as well as Dragotha.




Since every setting in 4e is there to loot for the core, I don't think this is a case against it in quite the same way that it is a case against Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Planescape. It's not like Bane being a core god meant they aren't putting out FR, or that Warforged and Changelings being in the MM meant they aren't putting out Eberron. 

But in a lot of ways, Planescape IS Sigil (for instance), so seeing Sigil in the DMG 2 means that there's not much left for a PS setting to go over, necessarily. If we saw the Free City of Greyhawk in the DMG 2, I think the chances of Greyhawk being a setting might be lower.

There hasn't been much hinting at Greyhawk aside from the "old school appeal" angle, though Greyhawk would meet that in spades.


----------



## coyote6 (Aug 11, 2009)

Kamikaze Midget said:


> I'd be cool with Greyhawk. Since I got into the game late in 2e, this would be the first version of the world that I could actually buy.




Not really, unless there was something preventing you from [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Gazetteer-Dungeons-Dragons-Gary-Holian/dp/0786917423]buying[/ame] [ame=http://www.amazon.com/Living-Greyhawk-Gazetteer-Dungeons-Drangons/dp/0786917431]stuff[/ame] in late 2000.


----------



## I'm A Banana (Aug 11, 2009)

The LG stuff struck me at the time as focused on RPGA-side things. As someone with no interest or activity in the RPGA, these products didn't seem like a setting as much as information for a part of the game that I wasn't involved in at all.


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Aug 11, 2009)

One thing that someone else mentioned that bears looking at is the "What class will come with it?"

FR gave swordmages, Eberron gave artificers.

If I recall correctly, both books also gave a new race (maybe more?  I haven't read through either)

At first glance, Dark Sun seems a shoe in with templars and Thri-Kreen, but I'm hoping not for the same reasons Banana already stated.  Dark Sun would not play well with 4e.

Spelljammer, on the other hand, would fit 4e wonderfully.  We get giffs as a new race, but what about class/PrCs?

Greyhawk I have no emotional investment in (sorry!), and I frankly know not a whole lot about, so I can't go into new races, classes, or how well it meshes with 4e.

Planescape would be...interesting to see with 4e.  I'm not going to state it as good or bad.  The race could be a generic plane-child to fit both old school tiefling and aasimar, and the PrCs could be for the various factions, but I'm not sure what the class would be.  Maybe a generic philosopher type?  The issue here is that they've ALREADY done a lot of Planescape stuff.

In the end, personally, I'd hope for Spelljammer.  I think it fits the feel of 4e better then any of the other options and it's a good, classic 2e setting to draw in the old school commentary.  Second place would go to Planescape, with a wide variaty of potential mechanics they could add in.  Third goes to Greyhawk, because it lacks the mechanics, and least likely in my mind goes to Dark Sun, because it's my mind, and oh god please Wizards don't do that please please please.


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 11, 2009)

Kamikaze Midget said:


> I don't think it's in WotC's interest to "quiet" anything down, and I don't think there's anything to ignite out side of message boards.  Indeed, if WotC was hoping to undermine Paizo's claim on the "real D&D experience", assuming Paizo even really has that claim, putting out Greyhawk would be pretty smart.




the 3e design team for Greyhawk pretty much *is* Paizo.  It might be smart, but keep in mind that the 4e design team (as much as I'm a fan of theirs) did 4eFR.  It didn't fly, although I think the Abeir side of things is pretty cool.  I haven't personally checked out the Eberron book, so I can't comment on that one.

The point is that, unless they do a bang up job, they won't necessarily get it "right".  Moreover, the crew famous for the more recent Greyhawk material, is Paizo.  Their fans, it could be argued, are the fans of Pathfinder.  Their material is what has been attracting people to the game since the original modules.  I think it'd be like trying to get hardcore OD&D players/grognards, to come to a 4e game.     



> Since every setting in 4e is there to loot for the core, I don't think this is a case against it in quite the same way that it is a case against Ravenloft, Spelljammer, and Planescape. It's not like Bane being a core god meant they aren't putting out FR, or that Warforged and Changelings being in the MM meant they aren't putting out Eberron.
> 
> But in a lot of ways, Planescape IS Sigil (for instance), so seeing Sigil in the DMG 2 means that there's not much left for a PS setting to go over, necessarily. If we saw the Free City of Greyhawk in the DMG 2, I think the chances of Greyhawk being a setting might be lower.
> 
> There hasn't been much hinting at Greyhawk aside from the "old school appeal" angle, though Greyhawk would meet that in spades.




Yes, but Grazzt, Iggwilv, Kyuss... the number of Greyhawk NPCs who are iconic POL characters now, is really up there.  I don't think they have that many left that they could say "well yeah, we have a totally different world here".  Maybe some named NPCs like Mordenkainen, and others who are entirely on the world.  It would set the tone for the sheer size of the multiverse.
   I'm not against Greyhawk, and I can see the potential... I just don't know.  Maybe new, maybe that double-volume + module that's been talked about.  

I remember asking some hardcore RPGA players what Greyhawk was all about, as 3e basically only published FR and Eberron books.  They said everything that was put out was for Greyhawk, as it was the default setting.  I didn't have a gazetter, but everything in general "should be assumed to be Greyhawk".  Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, Dragonomicon, MM 1-5, etc.  All of it is Greyhawk.
     To me that sounds like POL, but I've asked on the boards and gotten the reply that there is a concrete setting out there... somewhere.  "and it's fantastic, I tells ye" (raspy voice through a grey beard).   Other than some LG gazeteer and some assorted OD&D books, however, there isn't much to point to, and not many novels.


----------



## Obryn (Aug 11, 2009)

fireinthedust said:


> I remember asking some hardcore RPGA players what Greyhawk was all about, as 3e basically only published FR and Eberron books.  They said everything that was put out was for Greyhawk, as it was the default setting.  I didn't have a gazetter, but everything in general "should be assumed to be Greyhawk".  Lords of Madness, Libris Mortis, Dragonomicon, MM 1-5, etc.  All of it is Greyhawk.



That's ... not quite the case, honestly.

While the 3.x default setting included Greyhawk elements, that's about as far as it went.  The gods were switched around in priority, for one thing.  For another, Greyhawk is honestly the 1e setting... that is, there are places for dwarves (of many varieties), elves (of even more varieties), gnomes (of two varieties), halflings (three kinds), humans (with a few non-game-related cultural groups), and half-orcs.

Greyhawk was mined for tons of ideas, mind you.  Anything that was grabbed from 1e and advanced to 3e was basically from Greyhawk.  But the 3e default setting was a lot more than its Greyhawk roots, if that makes sense.

-O


----------



## wedgeski (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes I remember some early forum posts (not here, elsewhere) that claimed the 3E core rules "only applied to Greyhawk".


----------



## SPECTRE666 (Aug 11, 2009)

The Core World. 

It would go with every PHB, DMG, and MM they produce. 

It would go with every splatbook and adventure they produce.


Think about it.


----------



## ki11erDM (Aug 11, 2009)

SPECTRE666 said:


> The Core World.
> 
> It would go with every PHB, DMG, and MM they produce.
> 
> ...




Which is why it is not it.  Bill has said a few times that they are looking to grow the game, not fall back on what they have already done.  It is going to be something slightly out of the box.


----------



## avin (Aug 11, 2009)

Acid_crash said:


> But, I think the biggest shocker they can announce would be Scarred Lands.  Nobody would ever see that one coming and that would surprise the hell out of a lot of people.




Creature Collection has been already released for 4E, so I seriously doubt that... but I would buy it with closed eyes.


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 11, 2009)

SPECTRE666 said:


> The Core World.
> 
> It would go with every PHB, DMG, and MM they produce.
> 
> ...





I did.  If everything is core (Strahd, artificers, swordmages, eberron, etc.), then anything they make is the Core World.  It may not be PoL, but it's still Core.

I might be wrong, though, as I haven't cross-referenced whether or not Eberron CS planar cosmology in 4e would still work with FR planar cosmology in 4e.


----------



## Dragonbait (Aug 11, 2009)

Planejammer
They already have it worked out in the books (airships in AV1, the basic planar cosmology in the Manual of the Planes, or whatever it's called, the manual of the elemental chaos and astral sea are coming out later, etc..). A setting book would just add more detail, a new race, class, and feats to what is already being established.


----------



## hexgrid (Aug 11, 2009)

fireinthedust said:


> I did.  If everything is core (Strahd, artificers, swordmages, eberron, etc.), then anything they make is the Core World.  It may not be PoL, but it's still Core.
> 
> I might be wrong, though, as I haven't cross-referenced whether or not Eberron CS planar cosmology in 4e would still work with FR planar cosmology in 4e.




That's not what "everything is core" means. The different campaign settings are still completely separate settings, even though they use the same cosmological framework. The PHB gods do not exist in FR, for example (though some happen to have the same names.)


----------



## C_M2008 (Aug 11, 2009)

90% sure it's Dark Sun.


----------



## Rokes (Aug 11, 2009)

Not long now until we find out!


----------



## DonAdam (Aug 11, 2009)

Synnibar 4e.


----------



## Estlor (Aug 11, 2009)

FWIW, The Eberron Player's Guide did "name drop" thri-kreen and half-giants in its character background section.

Don't recall seeing either of them in the MM2.


----------



## Baron Opal (Aug 11, 2009)

Saracenus said:


> If you are talkin' 'bout the folks at Dragonsfoot, I would say next to none would come over to the 4e side.
> 
> If you are talking about the Canonfire crew (which is all over the edition and non-D&D map) there might be a few defections, but again I wouldn't think it would be many.
> 
> Beyond that, if someone is still stuck playing 1e or a retro clone, I really don't think that a 4e campaign of Greyhawk is gonna convince them to move on over.




If it was made like the Eberron Guides, all of them would be potential customers. With the campaign guide at least, there was very little in the way of 4e rules. It was all information. It would have a utility that was edition independant.

Thinking about classes, assassin came to mind for the player's guide. That way you could more easily assemble someone from the Scarlet Brotherhood. However, that's supposed to be DDI only.


----------



## Logan_Bonner (Aug 11, 2009)

Hawke said:


> I looked at wotc's schedule but I didn't see an obvious "here is where we're announcing." As I'll be at work all, I'm eager to hear it and am wondering when I can expect o hear something.




So, on topic, the campaign setting announcement will be at the "D&D 4th Edition Extravaganza," which will detail a ton of products. It looks like the first one is on Friday at noon, and there will be another Saturday at noon (of course, it won't be "news" by that point). Make sure you check the schedule yourself, but that's the seminar name!


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## renau1g (Aug 11, 2009)

Estlor said:


> FWIW, The Eberron Player's Guide did "name drop" thri-kreen and half-giants in its character background section.
> 
> Don't recall seeing either of them in the MM2.




Possible, or that they're dropping them for PH3 (which is psionics right?), just like they dropped stuff for goliaths, gnomes, and shifters in the FR setting guide.


----------



## gribble (Aug 11, 2009)

Estlor said:


> FWIW, The Eberron Player's Guide did "name drop" thri-kreen and half-giants in its character background section.



Not convinced this is a smoking gun...  The only mention of them I can recall is under the Stormreach/Xen'drik background section. They were already well established there due to the 3e Eberron philosophy of "everything in the PsiHB is in Xen'drik".

There is certainly no mention of them under the PC races section, which is where devas, gnomes and half-orcs showed up in the FR PG.


----------



## Fallen Seraph (Aug 11, 2009)

renau1g said:


> Possible, or that they're dropping them for PH3 (which is psionics right?), just like they dropped stuff for goliaths, gnomes, and shifters in the FR setting guide.



Well we know PHB3 races are: Wilden, Minotaur, Githzerai and one more. So there is the possibility of either, or but not both.


----------



## RangerWickett (Aug 11, 2009)

Do we know that it's an old setting? I mean, didn't WotC buy rights to two other campaign settings after the Great Setting Search of '03?  Alternate idea: New setting? ENWorld.


----------



## coyote6 (Aug 11, 2009)

Yes, I believe you're right, RW. Rich Burlew, of Order of the Stick fame, submitted the runner-up, IIRC.


----------



## kitsune9 (Aug 12, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> Do we know that it's an old setting? I mean, didn't WotC buy rights to two other campaign settings after the Great Setting Search of '03?  Alternate idea: New setting? ENWorld.




Does anyone remember what the other two runner-ups were in the Great Setting Search of '03?


----------



## ggroy (Aug 12, 2009)

Rich Burlew and [FONT=Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif]Philip Nathan              Toomey.[/FONT]

Participants in Next Round of Fantasy Setting Search Announced


----------



## ssampier (Aug 12, 2009)

RangerWickett said:


> Do we know that it's an old setting? I mean, didn't WotC buy rights to two other campaign settings after the Great Setting Search of '03?  Alternate idea: New setting? ENWorld.




I'm assuming the EnWorld (or NeWorld) is where you play a mod trying to filter out all the noise (spam, flame wars, and ads) in a cyber existence.


----------



## Aloïsius (Aug 12, 2009)

WotC_Logan said:


> So, on topic, the campaign setting announcement will be at the "D&D 4th Edition Extravaganza," which will detail a ton of products. It looks like the first one is on Friday at noon, and there will be another Saturday at noon (of course, it won't be "news" by that point). Make sure you check the schedule yourself, but that's the seminar name!




It seems no one react to this . Only two more days to wait.


----------



## amethal (Aug 12, 2009)

WotC_Logan said:


> So, on topic, the campaign setting announcement will be at the "D&D 4th Edition Extravaganza," which will detail a ton of products. It looks like the first one is on Friday at noon, and there will be another Saturday at noon (of course, it won't be "news" by that point). Make sure you check the schedule yourself, but that's the seminar name!



Thanks for the info. I will try and wait patiently!


----------



## Phaezen (Aug 12, 2009)

WotC_Logan said:


> So, on topic, the campaign setting announcement will be at the "D&D 4th Edition Extravaganza," which will detail a ton of products. It looks like the first one is on Friday at noon, and there will be another Saturday at noon (of course, it won't be "news" by that point). Make sure you check the schedule yourself, but that's the seminar name!




So what you are saying is roughly 53 hours till the announcement is made?  















Impatient? Me? Never


----------



## Nai_Calus (Aug 12, 2009)

I look forward with great pleasure to the coming explosion of nerdrage that will inevitably ensue no matter what setting is announced.


----------



## Fifth Element (Aug 12, 2009)

ssampier said:


> I'm assuming the EnWorld (or NeWorld) is where you play a mod trying to filter out all the noise (spam, flame wars, and ads) in a cyber existence.



A significant portion of the game will be lynching wizards.


----------



## Silverblade The Ench (Aug 12, 2009)

Fifth Element said:


> A significant portion of the game will be lynching wizards.




Well if it IS Dark Sun that is IS exactly what _will _happen!

_"Holy ****, Bert! Did you see that?! A wizard using at-wills!! KILL THE WIZARD! BURN THE DEFILER!!"_


----------



## ki11erDM (Aug 12, 2009)

At this point, all I need is to know is: who will be blogging from the room?  I need to know at 12:01 what the setting is!!11!!!one!.


----------



## darjr (Aug 12, 2009)

Fifth Element said:


> A significant portion of the game will be lynching wizards.




As long as one of them is named Rincewind, I'm all good. Or Mudstrum Ridcully.

Hmmmm, DiscWorld?


----------



## Silverblade The Ench (Aug 12, 2009)

Not even Death can catch Rincewind, lol!! 

*"OH NO, I'M HAVING ANOTHER NEAR-RINCEWIND EXPERIENCE, AGAIN!"*


----------



## coyote6 (Aug 12, 2009)

Yeah, who is going to volunteer to tweet the announcement the second it's made?


----------



## ki11erDM (Aug 12, 2009)

coyote6 said:


> Yeah, who is going to volunteer to tweet the announcement the second it's made?




damn it.  dont make me sign up for that damn thing to find out.  someone just post it to this thread asap : )


----------



## Ktulu (Aug 12, 2009)

WotC_Logan said:


> So, on topic, the campaign setting announcement will be at the "*D*&D 4th Edition Ext*ra*va*g*anza," which will detail a ton of products. It looks like the first one is on Friday at no*on*, and there wil*l *be *an*other Saturday at noon (of *c*ours*e*, *i*t won't be "new*s*" by *th*at point). Make sur*e* you check the schedule y*o*urself, but that's the semi*n*ar nam*e*!




I've cracked Logan's code!!!


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 12, 2009)

hexgrid said:


> That's not what "everything is core" means. The different campaign settings are still completely separate settings, even though they use the same cosmological framework. The PHB gods do not exist in FR, for example (though some happen to have the same names.)




correction: it's not what it CURRENTLY means.  

That each Core world has its own gods is a longstanding D&D tradition.  There are reams of them for FR.  Eberron has its own.  There isn't a set list of Astral Dominions, and all the planes are the same.  Heck, Eberron has just decided that its planes are sections of the larger, pre-made planes used.

Granted, you could be right.  However, the idea that everything is officially one big setting allows WOTC to say "ok everyone, here's more core material you get to pick up".  They do that now, but making it official makes more sense.  More imperative, if you understand me.


----------



## Rechan (Aug 12, 2009)

Nai_Calus said:


> I look forward with great pleasure to the coming explosion of nerdrage that will inevitably ensue no matter what setting is announced.



That's my prediction.


----------



## CasvalRemDeikun (Aug 12, 2009)

Rechan said:


> That's my prediction.



 Likewise, as I will probably be someone raging.


----------



## Hjorimir (Aug 12, 2009)

One thing I find frustrating is the apparent need for each campaign setting to embrace every last aspect of 4e races and classes, meaning every campaign will include the kitchen sink. Bleh.

I find that a campaign setting is often special as much for what it excludes in addition to new things that it includes.


----------



## The_Fan (Aug 12, 2009)

Already getting mine ready.


----------



## Dragonbait (Aug 12, 2009)

Nothing to see here.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 12, 2009)

darjr said:


> As long as one of them is named Rincewind, I'm all good. Or Mudstrum Ridcully.
> 
> Hmmmm, DiscWorld?


----------



## darjr (Aug 12, 2009)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


>




Sorry... forgot 

Oh crap, I misspelled it anyway.


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Aug 13, 2009)

Eh, there's only one setting they could choose that would really make me irate.

Sadly, that's the one a lot of people say they're going to go with :<


----------



## Fallen Seraph (Aug 13, 2009)

I am wondering how long till the first thread about what the NEXT setting will be 

I don't think I will be that annoyed as much as I would be, if it wasn't for DDI. Since even if it is a setting I won't get, at the very least I will be able to take what crunch I want from the setting through DDI without buying it.


----------



## drothgery (Aug 13, 2009)

Fallen Seraph said:


> I am wondering how long till the first thread about what the NEXT setting will be




I'd say within an hour of the announcement of the 2010 setting.


----------



## pedr (Aug 13, 2009)

Fallen Seraph said:


> I am wondering how long till the first thread about what the NEXT setting will be



It's an interesting question.

If they go with something odd, like Dark Sun, this time, that suggests they think there are enough quasi-medieval settings, so the chances of going _back_ to Dragonlance are slim. 

Perhaps DL this year and Dark Sun next year -- but they're running out of major well-known settings if we discard ones where significant aspects are now included in the extended-core (Planescape via MotP and DMG2, Spelljammer via Adventurer's Vault, Ravenloft via Domains of Dread, etc). What's left? Mystara?


----------



## Nai_Calus (Aug 13, 2009)

Sod that, I'm starting the thread about the 2013 setting. BRB.


----------



## Aloïsius (Aug 13, 2009)

Dark Sun this year, and one of the setting search laureate next year. Because time has come for something new.


----------



## Dragonhelm (Aug 13, 2009)

pedr said:


> Perhaps DL this year and Dark Sun next year -- but they're running out of major well-known settings if we discard ones where significant aspects are now included in the extended-core (Planescape via MotP and DMG2, Spelljammer via Adventurer's Vault, Ravenloft via Domains of Dread, etc). What's left? Mystara?




Mystara is a possibility, but the way Chris Perkins talked on a podcast (the Tome Show?), it definitely did not sound like Mystara was even on the radar.

We know that the setting has an A in it, so that rules out Birthright.  And from what Chris Perkins said, it sounds like Birthright may not make a comeback.  Likewise, I doubt it's Council of Wyrms.

The two big contenders seem to be Dragonlance and Dark Sun.  My money is on Dark Sun.  With the release of psionics next year, and the re-release of the Prism Pentad, there will be no greater time for Dark Sun to make its 4th edition appearance.

Another good possibility is Greyhawk.  With the passing of Gygax and Arneson, it would be a good time to capitalize on the nostalgia factor and to do a major reboot.  


Other possibilities, which are much less likely, include:  

1.  Taladas - Dragonlance's other continent, which includes 3 instances of the letter A
2.  Maztica - Never popular, and wiped out in the Realms anyway.
3.  Al-Qadim - Arabian Adventures!
4.  Kara-Tur - Only if presented as the home of Oriental Adventures.
5.  Tale of the Comet - Unlikely, but boy would it be fun!
6.  Ghostwalk - Possibly, but I don't think it got that great of a reception.
7.  Blackmoor - I don't think WotC has the rights to this.



Ktulu said:


> I've cracked Logan's code!!!




LOL!


----------



## Sethvir (Aug 13, 2009)

Blackmoor is being done by Code Monkey Publishing I think in conjunction with Zeitgeist Games.  They just released the first 4E book for it.  

From the CMP website:  

Dave Arneson's Blackmoor: The First Campaign, is released under the 4th Edition rules set!

 Dave Arneson’s Blackmoor™
The First Fantasy Campaign!

When Dave Arneson co-created Dungeons & Dragons in 1972, he incubated the game in his own setting—the world of Blackmoor. Now, four editions of the game and nearly as many decades later, you can play the newest version of the rules in the oldest fantasy setting! Explore the mysteries of Castle Blackmoor, battle the invading hordes of the ruthless Afridhi, or elude the schemes of the dread Egg of Coot. The possibilities for adventure are endless… and they await! 

Retail Price Print: $40.00 U.S.
Retail Price PDF: $30.00 U.S. - Available in our Store and on RPGNow.
Page Count: 240
Author: C.A. Suleiman, Ari Marmell, Owen K.C. Stephens, Tim Hitchcock, M. Alexander Jurkat Developer: C.A. Suleiman
Release: June 2009
Type of Book: Campaign Setting
A setting for players of Fourth Edition Dungeons & Dragons

 For Players
● The only licensed, second-party setting for players of the new 4th Edition Dungeons & Dragons game
● Six new base classes to play, from the Arcane Warrior to the Wokan
● Hundreds of new powers and scores of new paragon paths and feats
● Complete, ready-to-play setting includes NPCs and new monsters

Review from RPG.net

Review of Blackmoor: The First Campaign - RPGnet 

And Another Review

Jack99's 4e Ultrashort Reviews: Dave Arneson's Blackmoor (Code Monkey Publishing)


----------



## catsclaw227 (Aug 13, 2009)

Aloïsius said:


> Dark Sun this year, and one of the setting search laureate next year. Because time has come for something new.




This.

But, it's possible that Dark Sun might be backstabbed for quintuple damage old-school style and be replaced by a retro 4e Greyhawk.

Definitely, though, 2011 will be something new.


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 13, 2009)

Dragonhelm said:


> 1.  Taladas - Dragonlance's other continent, which includes 3 instances of the letter A



Nah, they'd have that as a page in the DLCS, if anywhere.


> 2.  Maztica - Never popular, and wiped out in the Realms anyway.



  yeah.  


> 3.  Al-Qadim - Arabian Adventures!



 technically also in the realms.  Imagine the ironic plays on our current quagmires in the middle east!  Woooo... hack, wheeze.  


> 4.  Kara-Tur - Only if presented as the home of Oriental Adventures.



 Or Rokugan.  Don't they own the rights to it or something?


> 6.  Ghostwalk - Possibly, but I don't think it got that great of a reception.



  yeah, no.  It's a monte cook setting anyway, and I believe he's more of a fan of d20; and it's not oldschool.


> 7.  Blackmoor - I don't think WotC has the rights to this.



  I'm sure they could get the rights, but yeah, it's already a setting for 4e.  It and Scarred Lands.

Speaking of which, how closely does the Blackmoor 4e setting a) go with Arneson's original setting, and b) relate to Greyhawk proper?

I'm reading the Dungeon 112 issue, Maure Castle.  I admit, I'm becoming interested in reading up on Greyhawk as a setting.  

If it was Greyhawk 2010, what would the significant changes to the setting be?  FR killed off all its powerful mages.  Would something be done for Mordenkainen?  Maybe trapped beneath Castle Greyhawk, or in some artifact, by arch fiends?
I expect some NPCs would be statted up, including epics like Yggwylv, Xagyg, and other major threats.  Probably also some artifacts of note.  The module for the setting could be a revist of a famous dungeon, if we're going old school.
    What would the mechanic introduced be?  better trap design?


----------



## Dragonhelm (Aug 13, 2009)

fireinthedust said:


> Or Rokugan.  Don't they own the rights to it or something?




No, that's AEG.  I was in some sort of weird transition when Oriental Adventures 3e came out.  I don't remember the specifics.



> yeah, no.  It's a monte cook setting anyway, and I believe he's more of a fan of d20; and it's not oldschool.




Well....4e is d20.  Was there mention anywhere that the setting would be an old school setting?





> If it was Greyhawk 2010, what would the significant changes to the setting be?  FR killed off all its powerful mages.  Would something be done for Mordenkainen?  Maybe trapped beneath Castle Greyhawk, or in some artifact, by arch fiends?
> I expect some NPCs would be statted up, including epics like Yggwylv, Xagyg, and other major threats.  Probably also some artifacts of note.  The module for the setting could be a revist of a famous dungeon, if we're going old school.




The running theory is that if Greyhawk was ever released in 4e, it would be a reboot where they go back to the original Greyhawk setup before the Greyhawk Wars.  So, for example, you would have the classic members of the Circle of Eight.  

For an adventure...maybe they'd do a 4e version of Castle Greyhawk?


----------



## vagabundo (Aug 13, 2009)

It's going to be Mystara.


----------



## Dragonhelm (Aug 13, 2009)

vagabundo said:


> It's going to be Mystara.




Care to elaborate on why?

I'm going to disagree with you here, just because Chris Perkins' comments on a recent podcast sound as if Mystara wasn't even being considered at this time.


----------



## vagabundo (Aug 13, 2009)

Dragonhelm said:


> Care to elaborate on why?
> 
> I'm going to disagree with you here, just because Chris Perkins' comments on a recent podcast sound as if Mystara wasn't even being considered at this time.




I had a dream last night that it would be Mystara.


----------



## Phaezen (Aug 13, 2009)

The question that must be asked is, will the nerdrage from the WHFRP 3e announcement ecclipse the nerdrage from the 2010 setting anouncement?


----------



## ggroy (Aug 13, 2009)

Phaezen said:


> The question that must be asked is, will the nerdrage from the WHFRP 3e announcement ecclipse the nerdrage from the 2010 setting anouncement?




In the bigger picture, nerdrage is largely harmless.


----------



## catsclaw227 (Aug 13, 2009)

Phaezen said:


> The question that must be asked is, will the nerdrage from the WHFRP 3e announcement ecclipse the nerdrage from the 2010 setting anouncement?



Quite Possibly, quite possibly. 

Personally?  I am interested in seeing what FFG are doing with WHFRP 3e, but I don't have a vested interest in WHFRP 2e.


----------



## Logan_Bonner (Aug 13, 2009)

Ktulu said:


> I've cracked Logan's code!!!




Rushed, erroneous decoding spoiled this entire early leak.


----------



## Dragonhelm (Aug 13, 2009)

vagabundo said:


> I had a dream last night that it would be Mystara.




That's the type of logic I can't argue with.  



WotC_Logan said:


> Rushed, erroneous decoding spoiled this entire early leak.




Throw us a bone here, man!  We need another letter!  LOL!


----------



## Aloïsius (Aug 13, 2009)

Dragonhelm said:


> Throw us a bone here, man!  We need another letter!  LOL!




I bet there is a "r".


----------



## Thanlis (Aug 13, 2009)

WotC_Logan said:


> Rushed, erroneous decoding spoiled this entire early leak.




That wouldn't disappoint me. I've been digging what I've read about that one.


----------



## Obryn (Aug 13, 2009)

Hah!  Isn't Red Steel part of Mystara, anyways? 

-O


----------



## catsclaw227 (Aug 13, 2009)

WotC_Logan said:


> Rushed, erroneous decoding spoiled this entire early leak.



Ha!

But isn't Red Steel set in Mystara?

Doh!  ninja'd by Obryn...


----------



## Obryn (Aug 13, 2009)

In all seriousness, I would totally get behind a 4e Mystara setting.  I think it's a great gameworld, and the whole Hollow Earth deal adds to the awesome.  It's a setting that's lay fallow for far too long.

I'm only worried that it might not have as much traction as even a niche setting like Dark Sun would.

Still, a 4e Tortle race would ROCK 

-O


----------



## Scribble (Aug 13, 2009)

ProfessorCirno said:


> Eh, there's only one setting they could choose that would really make me irate.
> 
> Sadly, that's the one a lot of people say they're going to go with :<




???

Dude WoTC doing something that makes you irate (or at least post in all caps) seems to be about as hard as finding a kid wearing black eyeliner in hot topic...


----------



## ProfessorCirno (Aug 13, 2009)

Scribble said:


> ???
> 
> Dude WoTC doing something that makes you irate (or at least post in all caps) seems to be about as hard as finding a kid wearing black eyeliner in hot topic...




Hey now, I wasn't irate at all about anything they did regarding Eberron.  Usually I just laffo over their customer service blowouts and that's that.  Most of their stuff these days just doesn't effect me.

Only things that made me irate of recent times were 1) telling me my pdfs were badwrong to have, and 2) driving a wrecking ball through FR.

Driving a wrecking ball through Dark Sun would have me significantly more irate then the FR problem ;p


----------



## Obryn (Aug 13, 2009)

ProfessorCirno said:


> Driving a wrecking ball through Dark Sun would have me significantly more irate then the FR problem ;p



I keep on seeing stuff like this about Dark Sun, and it puzzles the heck out of me.  I treasure my original Dark Sun boxed set.  That setting didn't last long though - TSR _already_ drove a wrecking ball through setting with the whole Prism Pentad foofaraw.  It's the prime example of a setting which was utterly changed by canon advancement.

If WotC changes the hell out of Dark Sun _again_, I hardly think it can do more harm to the setting's "integrity." 

Also, seriously, my original Dark Sun boxed set is still around and I can still caress it lovingly and keep it at the foot of my bed and even play D&D using it.  If worse comes to worst and I don't like the setting changes, I can always do what I did with the the post-Pentad 2e sourcebooks: steal the crunch from any hypothetical 4e Dark Sun and use it to run a Dark Sun game in the original setting.

-O


----------



## scede (Aug 13, 2009)

It's going to be Gamma World or Alternity. Why? Because they're both totally unexpected.


----------



## Dausuul (Aug 13, 2009)

Obryn said:


> I keep on seeing stuff like this about Dark Sun, and it puzzles the heck out of me.  I treasure my original Dark Sun boxed set.  That setting didn't last long though - TSR _already_ drove a wrecking ball through setting with the whole Prism Pentad foofaraw.  It's the prime example of a setting which was utterly changed by canon advancement.
> 
> If WotC changes the hell out of Dark Sun _again_, I hardly think it can do more harm to the setting's "integrity."




This.

I will add that I see very little in 4E that would not fit perfectly well in the Dark Sun setting. Paladins aren't bound by the paladin code any more, so they no longer clash horribly with Dark Sun's gritty survivalist atmosphere. Stripping out gods from 4E is the easiest thing in the world - it's just a handful of feats, people! Most of the PHB and PHB2 races require only moderate fluff tweaks, certainly no more than was done in the original DS boxed set. (I mean, look at the difference between the fat hobbity halflings of standard 2E and the tribal cannibal halflings of Athas.)

Now, if you want 4E Dark Sun to be an exact copy of 2E Dark Sun, with nothing added and nothing taken away... well, then, yeah, you're gonna be disappointed, but in that case why do you care what WotC does? You already have the Dark Sun set you want; it's sitting there on your shelf in an 18-year-old cardboard box.


----------



## Scribble (Aug 13, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Still, a 4e Tortle race would ROCK
> 
> -O




A 4e Tortle race would rock in general. Attached to a specific setting or not!


----------



## ggroy (Aug 13, 2009)

scede said:


> It's going to be Gamma World or Alternity. Why? Because they're both totally unexpected.




On a similar basis, the next setting will be Gangbusters or Top Secret.


----------



## Kralin Thornberry (Aug 13, 2009)

Star Frontiers


----------



## Scribble (Aug 13, 2009)

ggroy said:


> On a similar basis, the next setting will be Gangbusters or Top Secret.




Watch out for those pesky Russians.


----------



## Scribble (Aug 13, 2009)

Too bad it's not a White Wolf game... This would be the perfect year for:

NerdRage: The Incessant.


----------



## ggroy (Aug 13, 2009)

What would be really amusing is if there is no setting for next year.  All the hype was largely to fool everyone.


----------



## Nai_Calus (Aug 14, 2009)

Next year's setting is Shadowrun.


----------



## darjr (Aug 14, 2009)

Metamorphosis Alpha


----------



## Dragonhelm (Aug 14, 2009)

Scribble said:


> A 4e Tortle race would rock in general. Attached to a specific setting or not!




Agreed.  In fact, I could easily see WotC taking the Mystara races and putting them in a PHB down the line.  

So...kill Mystara and take its stuff?


----------



## Dire Bare (Aug 14, 2009)

Obryn said:


> That's ... not quite the case, honestly.
> 
> While the 3.x default setting included Greyhawk elements, that's about as far as it went.  The gods were switched around in priority, for one thing.  For another, Greyhawk is honestly the 1e setting... that is, there are places for dwarves (of many varieties), elves (of even more varieties), gnomes (of two varieties), halflings (three kinds), humans (with a few non-game-related cultural groups), and half-orcs.
> 
> ...




That's . . . not quite the case either, honestly.  

Early 3rd Edition DID have Greyhawk as it's core setting.  Yes, it fiddled with a few details, and presented it much like they are presenting the core setting for 4e, but Greyhawk was the default setting . . . at first.

But this didn't last long (don't really recall when the turning point was).  Eventually 3rd Edition morphed into exactly what you describe, a generic, nameless fantasy core setting with elements lifted from Greyhawk . . . not all that different from today's core setting for 4e, actually!


----------



## Dire Bare (Aug 14, 2009)

Dragonhelm said:


> 2.  Maztica - Never popular, and wiped out in the Realms anyway.




Maztica as a stand-alone campaign setting isn't going to happen.  But what if the next setting is Abeir, the twin world of Toril (the Forgotten Realms), and the place where Maztica "went"!!!

Now that would be cool!


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Aug 14, 2009)

Scribble said:


> Too bad it's not a White Wolf game... This would be the perfect year for:
> 
> NerdRage: The Incessant.



Every year is a good year to release that. And no year.


----------



## vagabundo (Aug 14, 2009)

Mystara would fit very nice, immortals and all. Players could have a big impact on the setting over a few long-running campaigns.


----------



## Aloïsius (Aug 14, 2009)

How many hours before the announcement ? I don't even know *when* it will happen because I don't know what the time zone of Gen Con is...


----------



## vagabundo (Aug 14, 2009)

Aloïsius said:


> How many hours before the announcement ? I don't even know *when* it will happen because I don't know what the time zone of Gen Con is...




I'd say we'll know around tea time; in about eight hours or so.


----------



## ki11erDM (Aug 14, 2009)

Been thinking about it... and the closer we get the more I want it to be Greyhawk.


----------



## Estlor (Aug 14, 2009)

Scribble said:


> A 4e Tortle race would rock in general. Attached to a specific setting or not!




Yup.  And once the PHB3 is out, you can finally play an adolescent tortle monk with a spellscar.  Come on, I'm not the only one who ever wanted to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Tortle, right?


----------



## ki11erDM (Aug 14, 2009)

cross posting this.

http://twitter.com/criticalhits

http://twitter.com/geeksdreamgirl


----------



## fireinthedust (Aug 14, 2009)

Dragonhelm said:


> Agreed.  In fact, I could easily see WotC taking the Mystara races and putting them in a PHB down the line.
> 
> So...kill Mystara and take its stuff?





What?!  Hey, buddy, I don't know where you think you are, but this is D&D... so, um, obviously kill Mystara and take it's stuff!!! 



			
				Dire Bear said:
			
		

> That's . . . not quite the case either, honestly.
> 
> Early 3rd Edition DID have Greyhawk as it's core setting. Yes, it fiddled with a few details, and presented it much like they are presenting the core setting for 4e, but Greyhawk was the default setting . . . at first.
> 
> But this didn't last long (don't really recall when the turning point was). Eventually 3rd Edition morphed into exactly what you describe, a generic, nameless fantasy core setting with elements lifted from Greyhawk . . . not all that different from today's core setting for 4e, actually!




Haha, told ya.  

So having a concrete Core, where everything for every setting exists *somewhere* may be where they go with this.  

I collected (and still will, if I find the gaps) FR 3e supplements, and Eberron ones.  I avoided Dragonlance (other than the main CS, which was a great book; and the original printed modules, each of which is pure win and a classic), the Age of Mortals stuff.   Why did I do this?  Frankly, because it was part of a set that I had and liked.  Even if I wasn't pleased with one of the books (I'm looking at you, Secrets of Xen'Drik (with utter lack of actual secrets)), I would still get the others.

Planescape and Spelljammer allow GMs to say "oooh, these characters could meet", and have meaningful interactions.  More than that, the rest of the books produced by the company BECOME ONE SET so that collectors gather them all.
    Thanks to DDI, Dragon Magazine will have support for supplements basically forever.  Which means introducing campaign settings will be the new version of "FR southwestern Island we haven't mentioned yet".   And better, too, as it'll be its own dynamic place to adventure.


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 14, 2009)

I guess we're gonna find out in a few minutes.


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 14, 2009)

This sounds pretty cool, from Critical Hits tweets:

Vor Rukroth (tiefling ruins), 32 PGs poster map, quests


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 14, 2009)

July Demonomicon by Mike Mearls, July 2010 Tomb of Horrors mega adventure. Levels 10-22


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## catsclaw227 (Aug 14, 2009)

Campaign setting is: Dark Sun!!!


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## Aloïsius (Aug 14, 2009)

Dark Sun ! Wooot !


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## DarkMasterBR (Aug 14, 2009)

DarkSun


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## Turtlejay (Aug 14, 2009)

Twitter
dark sun

So, so ninja'ed...


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## Agamon (Aug 14, 2009)

In case you missed the last handful of posts, it's Dark Sun. 

Seems a little anti-climactic, no?


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## Ktulu (Aug 14, 2009)

Ehh...better than Dragonlance.  I never really cared for the books or setting, so this is good, I guess..  Though, I'll probably skip it unless it's got some good stuff for mining.


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## GMforPowergamers (Aug 14, 2009)

Estlor said:


> Yup.  And once the PHB3 is out, you can finally play an adolescent tortle monk with a spellscar.  Come on, I'm not the only one who ever wanted to be a Teenage Mutant Ninja Tortle, right?




I had a party in 2e of 2 ninja's a fighter and a cleric..all tortles...I had a ratman (homebrew) be there mentor...


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## ki11erDM (Aug 14, 2009)

Dragon 378: D&D Extravaganza Seminar

already have info up.


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## Cam Banks (Aug 17, 2009)

catsclaw227 said:


> Campaign setting is: Dark Sun!!!




See? What did I say?

Cheers,
Cam


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## guivre (Aug 17, 2009)

Cam Banks said:


> See? What did I say?
> 
> Cheers,
> Cam




You made an unsubstantiated claim that coincidentally happened to be correct. Why do you ask, did you forget?

In other news, I was at the 'unveiling' pretty substantial cheer for Dark Sun. Probably would have been the same reaction for DL but who knows.


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## Cam Banks (Aug 17, 2009)

guivre said:


> You made an unsubstantiated claim that coincidentally happened to be correct. Why do you ask, did you forget?




Yes, I was busy celebrating a 25th anniversary over the weekend. My bad!

Cheers,
Cam


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