# Arcane spellcasting based on wisdom



## Zebediah Magus (May 23, 2007)

I’m working on a multiclassed divine/arcane spellcaster, and wondered about ways to base your arcane spells on wisdom, instead of Int or Cha.

So, what do you people have up your sleeves?


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## rgard (May 23, 2007)

Zebediah Magus said:
			
		

> I’m working on a multiclassed divine/arcane spellcaster, and wondered about ways to base your arcane spells on wisdom, instead of Int or Cha.
> 
> So, what do you people have up your sleeves?




You could go the opposite route and cast divine based int instead.  The archivist does that I believe.

The archivist is from one to the WotC sups, but is on their website for free.

Not sure of the other way around.

Thanks,
Rich


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## Zebediah Magus (May 23, 2007)

rgard said:
			
		

> You could go the opposite route and cast divine based int instead.




I believe that would be easier, but the base of this build will probably be the cleric class, since I'm interested in the domains, turning undead and all those nice features. Wisdom will have to be the highest ability score.


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## Trouvere (May 23, 2007)

Zebediah Magus said:
			
		

> I’m working on a multiclassed divine/arcane spellcaster, and wondered about ways to base your arcane spells on wisdom, instead of Int or Cha.
> 
> So, what do you people have up your sleeves?



The Dark Hunter prestige class casts arcane spells using Wisdom, and gets up to 4th level spells.


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## Zebediah Magus (May 23, 2007)

Trouvere said:
			
		

> The Dark Hunter prestige class casts arcane spells using Wisdom, and gets up to 4th level spells.




Interesting class, but I was aiming at a cleric/wizard devote to Wee Jas. He would be a kind of a studious necrologist, but I'm avoiding any variant classes (such as necromancer types or archivist) because I'd rather keep the cleric class features.

The difficulty I'm facing is finding a feat or a prestige class that enable wizard casting ruled by wisdom instead of intelligence.


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## Trouvere (May 23, 2007)

Zebediah Magus said:
			
		

> The difficulty I'm facing is finding a feat or a prestige class that enable wizard casting ruled by wisdom instead of intelligence.



I suppose he could repeatedly take the Arcane Disciple feat for 1 Wisdom-dependent spell from a cleric domain per spell level per day, cast from one of his arcane class spell slots.  Pretty gimpy, though.


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## frankthedm (May 23, 2007)

Zebediah Magus said:
			
		

> The difficulty I'm facing is finding a feat or a prestige class that enable wizard casting ruled by wisdom instead of intelligence.



Why yes, that should be difficult. An Arcane caster should not be able to One-dip a level of monk and tie his casting stat to his AC. Clerics and druids can pull it off, but they could have used good old fashioned armor and shields for a better AC most of the time.


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## Trouvere (May 24, 2007)

Trouvere said:
			
		

> I suppose he could repeatedly take the Arcane Disciple feat for 1 Wisdom-dependent spell from a cleric domain per spell level per day, cast from one of his arcane class spell slots.  Pretty gimpy, though.



Okay... so suppose you go Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 10 / X 4, or something similar.  Taking Practised Spellcaster twice, that leaves 7 feats available.  Spend 4 or 5 of those on Arcane Disciple (a domain of Wee Jas).  I guess you could end up with Death, Law, Domination, Inquisition, Pride.  Whatever.  Add your X levels to Wizard, so you end with casting as a Wiz17, Cleric 13.  By the time you're 9th level or so, you'll have at least 2 Arcane Disciple feats, depending on the order you take them in, and you'll be casting as a Wizard 6, with 3rd level spells as your highest (ouch).  Beyond that, your Arcane Disciple feats will keep ahead of your spell levels, so you won't need Int to be any higher than 14 or 15.  You still get those higher level Wizard slots, even though you can't prepare normal Wizard spells in them (but that doesn't matter since you'll be casting cleric domain spells using Wisdom from them).  With 4 Arcane Disciple feats, you'll have enough options to fill in all those higher slots from your domains.  For added fun, go cloistered cleric to pick up the Knowledge domain, and use the Divine Magician variant, to pick up some actually useful Wizard spells for your cleric list.  It's very ugly, but it does what you want, I think.


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## TwoSix (May 24, 2007)

Zebediah Magus said:
			
		

> The difficulty I'm facing is finding a feat or a prestige class that enable wizard casting ruled by wisdom instead of intelligence.




Unfortunately, there is no full arcane-casting class that has casting based on Wisdom, and no feat that allows you to swap casting stats.  I've looked quite a bit, too.


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## Gnome (May 24, 2007)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> Why yes, that should be difficult. An Arcane caster should not be able to One-dip a level of monk and tie his casting stat to his AC. Clerics and druids can pull it off, but they could have used good old fashioned armor and shields for a better AC most of the time.




I'm guessing then that you're not a fan of the "Ascetic Mage" feat from CAdv?


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## mikebr99 (May 24, 2007)

Is this so you only have one stat to support all your casting?

be a favoured soul/sorcerer/MT then... just don't learn any FS spells that would require a save... as the DC is based on WIS.... get those spells from the sorcerer side.

Mike


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## Nifft (May 24, 2007)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> Why yes, that should be difficult. An Arcane caster should not be able to One-dip a level of monk and tie his casting stat to his AC.




(Unless he's a Sorcerer and also spends a feat from Complete Adventurer...  )

Cheers, -- N


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## frankthedm (May 25, 2007)

Gnome said:
			
		

> I'm guessing then that you're not a fan of the "Ascetic Mage" feat from CAdv?



Never seen it. It sounds like it works on charisma, thus forcing going sorcerer. Sorcerers are already behind in getting the next level of spell so it sounds a bit less egregious. 







			
				Nifft said:
			
		

> (Unless he's a Sorcerer and also spends a feat from Complete Adventurer... )



A giant that spends a feat from Complete Adventure can gain +6 to +11 to hit with its boulders so it can even out....


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## Zebediah Magus (May 25, 2007)

Thanks for all the ideas! I believe I'll just dump my physical stats and go for a regular cleric/wizard.



			
				Trouvere said:
			
		

> Okay... so suppose you go Cleric 3 / Wizard 3 / Mystic Theurge 10 / X 4, or something similar.  Taking Practised Spellcaster twice, that leaves 7 feats available.  Spend 4 or 5 of those on Arcane Disciple (a domain of Wee Jas).  I guess you could end up with Death, Law, Domination, Inquisition, Pride.  Whatever.  Add your X levels to Wizard, so you end with casting as a Wiz17, Cleric 13.  By the time you're 9th level or so, you'll have at least 2 Arcane Disciple feats, depending on the order you take them in, and you'll be casting as a Wizard 6, with 3rd level spells as your highest (ouch).  Beyond that, your Arcane Disciple feats will keep ahead of your spell levels, so you won't need Int to be any higher than 14 or 15.  You still get those higher level Wizard slots, even though you can't prepare normal Wizard spells in them (but that doesn't matter since you'll be casting cleric domain spells using Wisdom from them).  With 4 Arcane Disciple feats, you'll have enough options to fill in all those higher slots from your domains.  For added fun, go cloistered cleric to pick up the Knowledge domain, and use the Divine Magician variant, to pick up some actually useful Wizard spells for your cleric list.  It's very ugly, but it does what you want, I think.




I don't have my books at hand, but it looks sound enough.


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## moritheil (May 26, 2007)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> Why yes, that should be difficult. An Arcane caster should not be able to One-dip a level of monk and tie his casting stat to his AC. Clerics and druids can pull it off, but they could have used good old fashioned armor and shields for a better AC most of the time.




I'm confused by this.  Isn't that exactly the point of the aescetic mage feat?



> Never seen it. It sounds like it works on charisma, thus forcing going sorcerer. Sorcerers are already behind in getting the next level of spell so it sounds a bit less egregious.




Ah, okay.  Yes, it does, and it specifies that you must take levels in sorcerer.  In other words, even if you are some other cha-based arcane casting class (hexblade?) you can't take it.


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## moritheil (May 26, 2007)

Zebediah Magus said:
			
		

> Thanks for all the ideas! I believe I'll just dump my physical stats and go for a regular cleric/wizard.




I suggest fast-build Cleric/Sorcerer where possible, but then, Fast-MT is hotly debated.    

Fast MT is: Sorc 1 with Precocious Apprentice (which enables you to cast 1 2nd level spell), Cleric 3, MT X.

For additional amusement, try using a metamagic sorcerer or a battle sorcerer for the arcane side of things, and a cloistered cleric for the divine side.


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## rgard (May 26, 2007)

moritheil said:
			
		

> I suggest fast-build Cleric/Sorcerer where possible, but then, Fast-MT is hotly debated.
> 
> Fast MT is: Sorc 1 with Precocious Apprentice (which enables you to cast 1 2nd level spell), Cleric 3, MT X.
> 
> For additional amusement, try using a metamagic sorcerer or a battle sorcerer for the arcane side of things, and a cloistered cleric for the divine side.




Well, a little less than 'hotly'.  It actually got FAQ'd or Sage Adviced saying you can't do that to qualify for PrCs that require 2nd level spell casting.

That said, if a player asked me if he/she could do it, I probably would allow it in my campaign.

Thanks,
Rich


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## moritheil (May 26, 2007)

rgard said:
			
		

> Well, a little less than 'hotly'.  It actually got FAQ'd or Sage Adviced saying you can't do that to qualify for PrCs that require 2nd level spell casting.
> 
> That said, if a player asked me if he/she could do it, I probably would allow it in my campaign.
> 
> ...




Right, but that was based on WoTC asking the authors, who said, "Oops, we didn't mean to make that possible."  Not everyone holds that author intent (especially only after the fact, and as a correction to unforseen implications) is the most meaningful way to interpret RAW.   

Anyhow, I just thought I'd mention it, since some DMs are open to it.


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## messy (Apr 13, 2015)

empyreal sorcerer


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## Dannyalcatraz (Apr 13, 2015)

Aaaaaancient thread!


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