# Special Conversion Thread: Sheens



## Shade (Jan 8, 2009)

This thread will focus on converting the sheens found in Dragon Magazine #258 and #270.  Some of these have already been converted in 3e, but I think it would be best to start from scratch.

Here's the overview...



			
				Dragon Magazine #258 said:
			
		

> *Living Machines*
> With infinite Prime Planes and the means to traverse them, elements of one Plane sometimes infect another.  On many Planes, clockwork lore advanced well beyond iron springs and gears.  Constructs that unlock energy from matter and sunlight were developed as tools on some Planes.  The lore of the machine builders is vast, and some of their mechanisms serve as remote servants for mighty exploratory vessels.
> 
> Some of these vessels foundered in the tide pools of the universe, “sinking” on planes where technology is subservient to magic.  In some cases, the living crew and their machine servants survived the catastrophe; in others, only the machines survived.  A few damaged but functioning machines—without the guidance of their living masters—bypassed safeguards and mimicked life, replicating themselves to insure survival.
> ...


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## Shade (Jan 8, 2009)

And here's the first one...

*Walkers*
Walkers number among the simplest sheens observed outside a machine cyst.  A walker’s body is composed mostly of a lumpy metallic obloid.  Dim lights flicker across the surface of a sphere in different patterns, depending on the walker’s situation.  The main body is supported by two slender metal legs, each ending in a wide, hooflike iron pad.  Another limb, called a sampler arm, emerges from beneath the sphere.  The sampler arm contains small metal teeth, perfect for gripping samples but also useful in defending the walker from threats it can’t escape.

The Vital League believes that walkers serve as advance scouts for an expanding machine cyst.  Cysts require a specialized mix of resources, which walkers are suited to locate.  When a walker finds the appropriate mineral and environmental conditions, it returns to its cyst with the report.  Teams of up to six walkers usually work together.

Walkers must return to their machine cyst once per month to replenish their energy.  If a walker’s energy is depleted and not replenished, it becomes inert.  Sheenchasers have had some success in “recharging” walkers with finely focused shocking grasp spells, then following the walker back to its home cyst.

Note:  Stronger variants of the walker have been sighted.  Additionally, walkers specialized for ore recovery (called miners) are common in areas rich in the mineral resources sought by a growing cyst.  Miner sheens possess digger arms instead of sampler arms, as well as a “plasma shovel” in the form of a focused plasma burst that can unearth soil and stone quickly.  The plasma shovel can also be directed at organic nuisances.  (Variant statistics appear with the standard walker stats.)

*Walker, machine life form (1d6):*  AC 6 (metallic foil); MV 9; HD 1+1; hp 9; THAC0 19; #AT 1; Dmg 1d6 (sampler arm); SA Electrical discharge; SD Grade 1 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ S (3’ diameter); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 175; Str 9, Dex 9, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 5 Cha 0.
SA – Electrical discharge.  Walkers store electrical energy in their outer carapace.  Up to three times per day, a walker can release this energy as a powerful electrical shock.  When a walker does so, the next foe struck in melee with the sampler arm suffers and additional 2d4 points of electrical damage in addition to physical damage.  Alternatively, if an attacker strikes the walker with a metallic weapon while the walker contains an excess charge in its carapace, the foe also receives 2d4 points of electrical damage.  Each excess electrical build-up depletes the walker’s energy stores, forcing it to return to its cyst one day sooner than it otherwise would to replenish its energy.
SD – Grade 1 defensive field.  Walkers automatically generate a physical protective field from virtual particles.  Though generally invisible, the defensive field drains 1 point of damage from every successful attack directed at the walker, to a maximum of 6 hit points/day.  For example, a longsword that would inflict 3 points of damage actually inflicts only 2 points of damage on the walker, while depleting the defensive field by 1 point.  (The field can absorb only 5 more hit points that day, 1 hit point at a time.)  Magical attacks that deliver direct damage, such as fireball, lightning bolt, etc., are also affected by the defensive field, but only after respective saving throws are made (see Magic Susceptibility).
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  All forms of machine life are unsuited to resist magic, except for mind-affecting magic.  (Machine “minds” work differently from organic minds.)  Walkers save against all spells with a -3 penalty.  Against spells that cause physical harm, sheens always suffer one additional point of damage per die of damage delivered.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball affects a sheen as a 6d6+6 fireball.

*Walker, Strong Variant:* AC 0 (reinforced metallic foil + Dex); MV 12; HD 4+1; hp 36; THAC0 15; #AT 2; Dmg 1d6/1d6 (sampler arms); SA Electrical discharge; SD Grade 1 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (4’ diameter); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 975; Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 5 Cha 0.

*Ore Recovery Walker (Miner):* AC 6 (metallic foil); MV 9; HD 1+1; hp 9; THAC0 19; #AT 1 or 1; Dmg 1d6 (digger arm); SA Electrical discharge, plasma shovel; SD Grade 1 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ S (3’ diameter); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 420; Str 9, Dex 9, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 5 Cha 0.
SA – Plasma Shovel.  Three times per day, the miner can vent superheated plasma from the tip of its digger arm.  The plasma is a searing cone of superheated particles (although the orientation is the opposite of the cone of plasma “breath” of a render) 30 feet long, 3 feet wide at the origin and gradually narrowing to an inch or less at the terminus.  Soil and earth melts away from the skilled touch of the plasma shovel, revealing the minerals sought by miners.  Creatures struck by the plasma must make a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon or suffer 4d10 points of damage; creatures that successfully save still suffer half damage.  Treat the plasma as fire for purposes of invulnerabilities and protective magics.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #258 (1999).


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## freyar (Jan 8, 2009)

First off, plain constructs or something fancier like living constructs?


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## Shade (Jan 8, 2009)

I think they are regular constructs, but should have some sort of self-repair similar to the maug.


Rapid Repair (Ex): A maug that rests for 1 full hour repairs 1 point of damage, so long as it has at least 1 hit point. Rapid repair does not allow a maug to regrow or reattach lost body parts.

A character can assist a maug's self-repair with a Craft (stonemasonry) check (DC 15). If the check is successful, the the maug repairs 2 hit points per hour of rest. Providing assistance to the maug counts as light activity for the assisting character, and a character can assist only one maug at a time. A maug cannot assist its own repair.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 8, 2009)

They have a Con score, and there's not many living constructs that aren't warforged. Let's make them living constructs.

How do we want to handle magic susceptibility?


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## freyar (Jan 8, 2009)

Living construct with a maug's rapid repair?  (Or does it need that?  I forget if warforged can "heal" with rest.)

I think magic susceptibility almost works as is.  Maybe 50% extra damage instead of an extra point per die.  I think the save penalty is fine, though maybe -3 is too harsh.  Dunno.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 8, 2009)

Warforged can repair themselves with Craft checks. I think we should go for rapid repair, but note that Craft (metalworking) can treat a sheen like a Heal check.


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## freyar (Jan 8, 2009)

I'll agree to that.


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## Shade (Jan 8, 2009)

Agreed to living construct w/rapid repair and Craft (metalworking) as Heal.

I like the idea of just giving them vulnerability (+50% damage) to damaging magic, and leave off a save penalty.  The combo seems a tad harsh.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 8, 2009)

Agreed. One or the other, not both.


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## freyar (Jan 9, 2009)

Sure.  Let's do the +50% damage.


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## Shade (Jan 9, 2009)

Looking through the living construct traits, I see a few problems...



> Unlike other constructs, a living construct is not immune to mind-influencing effects.






> Unlike other constructs, living constructs are subject to critical hits, effects requiring a Fort save, death from massive damage, nonlethal damage, stunning, ability damage, ability drain, and death effects or necromancy effects.




Sheens are "immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force..."


So...do we make 'em living constructs and note the exceptions, or make them standard constructs and note the exceptions?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 9, 2009)

We make 'em living constructs and note the exceptions. 

Sheens, unlike other living constructs, are immune to death effects and mind-influencing effects.


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## freyar (Jan 9, 2009)

Works for me.


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## Shade (Jan 9, 2009)

Fair enough.

Stick with the listed ability scores for the walker, but increase Cha to 1?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 9, 2009)

Sure! Poor guys, though. Str and Dex of 9? We're looking at fractional CRs here.


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## Shade (Jan 9, 2009)

Yeah, for miners you'd think they'd at least not have a penalty.  Hmmm....


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## freyar (Jan 9, 2009)

Missed part of that conversation...

Seems like the miners just use their plasma shovels and don't need much Str.  You'd think they'd want better Dex to aim, but I guess they're not so good at that, either.   We should list what happens to a character that gets in the way of a plasma shovel.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 9, 2009)

I agree that miners should get a better Dexterity score. Plasma shovel based on flame blade, but typeless and ignores up to 10 points of hardness?


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## freyar (Jan 12, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> I agree that miners should get a better Dexterity score. Plasma shovel based on flame blade, but typeless and ignores up to 10 points of hardness?



Sure!  And 30 ft long...

Dex 12?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 12, 2009)

Oh, I missed that it's a line. In that case, no need for a high Dex--its more of a breath weapon than a ranged attack.


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## freyar (Jan 12, 2009)

> SA – Plasma Shovel. Three times per day, the miner can vent superheated plasma from the tip of its digger arm. The plasma is a searing cone of superheated particles (although the orientation is the opposite of the cone of plasma “breath” of a render) 30 feet long, 3 feet wide at the origin and gradually narrowing to an inch or less at the terminus. Soil and earth melts away from the skilled touch of the plasma shovel, revealing the minerals sought by miners. Creatures struck by the plasma must make a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon or suffer 4d10 points of damage; creatures that successfully save still suffer half damage. Treat the plasma as fire for purposes of invulnerabilities and protective magics.




The fact that it narrows is kind of weird.  The "skilled touch" bit would indicate a higher Dex, I think, but you're right that it works more like a breat weapon.  Well, I'm fairly happy either way; maybe it doesn't need much control to get the minerals out.


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## Shade (Jan 12, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

I increased Con to 12, as they had HD (1+1) and 9 hp.  Any objections?

For the defensive field, model it off stoneskin?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 12, 2009)

Edit: Increased? It's got a listed Con of 16, which I like. 

What's the hardness of minerals? 8 and higher, right? Perhaps it only affects creatures and materials with a hardness less than 8.


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## Shade (Jan 12, 2009)

Oops!  I thought it was 9.   Fixed.


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## freyar (Jan 12, 2009)

demiurge is right, the Con should be 16.

Stoneskin seems like a good model for the defensive field.

demiurge, do you mean lower than hardness 8 for the plasma shovel?  That seems fair to me.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 12, 2009)

Yes. I also think we could give it the ability to find metals and minerals, like a rod of metal and mineral detection.


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## Shade (Jan 12, 2009)

> SD – Grade 1 defensive field.  Walkers automatically generate a physical protective field from virtual particles.  Though generally invisible, the defensive field drains 1 point of damage from every successful attack directed at the walker, to a maximum of 6 hit points/day.  For example, a longsword that would inflict 3 points of damage actually inflicts only 2 points of damage on the walker, while depleting the defensive field by 1 point.  (The field can absorb only 5 more hit points that day, 1 hit point at a time.)  Magical attacks that deliver direct damage, such as fireball, lightning bolt, etc., are also affected by the defensive field, but only after respective saving throws are made (see Magic Susceptibility).




How's this?

Defensive Field (Su):  Walkers automatically generate a physical protective field from virtual particles.  This grants the walker damage reduction 1/- and resistance to acid 1, cold 1, electricity 1, fire 1, and sonic 1. The defensive field can prevent a total of 6 points of damage per day.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 12, 2009)

I'd drop the "virtual", unless it's to be "virtually any". Other than that, looks good!


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## Shade (Jan 12, 2009)

> SA – Electrical discharge.  Walkers store electrical energy in their outer carapace.  Up to three times per day, a walker can release this energy as a powerful electrical shock.  When a walker does so, the next foe struck in melee with the sampler arm suffers and additional 2d4 points of electrical damage in addition to physical damage.  Alternatively, if an attacker strikes the walker with a metallic weapon while the walker contains an excess charge in its carapace, the foe also receives 2d4 points of electrical damage.  Each excess electrical build-up depletes the walker’s energy stores, forcing it to return to its cyst one day sooner than it otherwise would to replenish its energy.




And...



> Walkers must return to their machine cyst once per month to replenish their energy.  If a walker’s energy is depleted and not replenished, it becomes inert.  Sheenchasers have had some success in “recharging” walkers with finely focused shocking grasp spells, then following the walker back to its home cyst.




Hmmm...

3-for-1 healing from electricity, like flesh golems?

I swear I've seen something similar to the electrical discharge on another creature...


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## freyar (Jan 12, 2009)

Not quite like a shocker lizard, is it?

I don't know about healing from electricity.  Maybe.  This is more like nourishment, since it goes along with the whole inertness/recharging deal.  The closest SQs we had recently were the mold wyrms resting state and the beljuril dragon, I think.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 12, 2009)

I think it feeds on electricity, not heals from it. As such, electric attacks shouldn't have any harmful effect on it, and we should strip electricity from the defensive field. 

Should it be a swift or standard action to charge up?


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## freyar (Jan 13, 2009)

Well, at the cyst, maybe it should take an hour or something to charge up for a month.  But if they're just absorbing from a spell, maybe a readied standard action to get a few hour's charge?  Like a rod of absorption.  We did something similar for the ghazneths a bit back.


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## Shade (Jan 13, 2009)

So...

Immunity to electricity?

Electrical Discharge (Su):  Three times per day, a walker can release stored energy as a powerful electrical shock.  Its next successful slam attack deals an additional 2d4 points of electricity damage. Alternatively, if an attacker strikes the walker with a metallic weapon while the walker contains an excess charge in its carapace, the foe takes 2d4 points of electricity damage.  This uses one daily usage of the electrical discharge.

As for the energy storing, I'm not sure I like using a readied action.   I think the "hour of inactivity" idea might work best.  Thoughts?


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## freyar (Jan 13, 2009)

Discharge looks good.

I think there are 2 issues with the recharge.  First is how long it takes to recharge at the machine cyst for a month's worth of activity.  The other issue is that sheenchasers have used magic spells to keep the walkers going a little.  I like the hour inactivity at the cyst for the first one, and I was proposing the readied action to absorb electricity from an attack.  I do generally like immunity to electricity.


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## Shade (Jan 14, 2009)

Hmmm...it's the need to ready an action that's bothering me.  I envision them (possibly incorrectly) getting a charge out of (pun intended) any electrical attack that targets them.   Is that too powerful?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 14, 2009)

I'm alright with them naturally charging from an electrical attack without the need to ready an action.


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## freyar (Jan 14, 2009)

That's fine by me.  I just wasn't sure from the original text whether the charging had to be a careful process or not.


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## Shade (Jan 15, 2009)

Here's a rough draft at this ability...

Electrically Charged (Ex):  Walkers are powered by electricity.  A walker normally carries enough charge to function for up to one month.  After this time, the walker becomes inert until recharged.   Walkers generally return to their cysts before this time elapses.

Within a cyst, a walker may fully recharge after one hour of inactivity.  Alternatively, a walker can recharge "in the field" if exposed to an attack that deals electricity damage.  Any such attack directed at a walker recharges some of the walker's power.   This refreshes one of its expended daily uses of its electrical discharge ability (but cannot allow it to exceed its normal maximum of 3 daily uses).  


Hmmm....I'm wondering if it would be simpler to just have the walker carry 30 days of charge, and each hp of damage dealt by its discharge removes an equal number of days, while electricty damage targeted at it charges it by 1 day per point of damage dealt?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 15, 2009)

I don't like it being an hp thing. Each time it uses its electrical discharge reduces its charge by a day, regardless of how much hp in damage it deals.


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## freyar (Jan 15, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> I don't like it being an hp thing. Each time it uses its electrical discharge reduces its charge by a day, regardless of how much hp in damage it deals.



I agree.  And, likewise, every 5hp of damage it would normally take from electricity recharges one day worth of functioning.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 15, 2009)

That sounds good to me.


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## Shade (Jan 16, 2009)

Take two...

Electrically Charged (Ex): Walkers are powered by electricity. A walker normally carries enough charges to function for up to one month (30 charges). After this time, the walker becomes inert until recharged. Walkers generally return to their cysts before this time elapses.

Each time a walker uses its electrical discharge ability, it expends one charge.

Within a cyst, a walker may fully recharge after one hour of inactivity. Alternatively, a walker can recharge "in the field" if exposed to an attack that deals electricity damage.  An attack that deals electricity damage restores 1 charge for every 5 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. For example, a walker hit by a lightning bolt gains 3 charges if the attack would have dealt 15 points of damage. A walker gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage.  Regardless of the amount of electricity damage directed at a walker, it cannot exceed its normal maximum of 30 charges. 

And change the electrical charge ability like so?

Electrical Discharge (Su): Three times per day, a walker can release stored energy as a powerful electrical shock. Its next successful slam attack deals an additional 2d4 points of electricity damage. Alternatively, if an attacker strikes the walker with a metallic weapon while the walker contains an excess charge in its carapace, the foe takes 2d4 points of electricity damage. This attack expends one of the walker's electrical charges, regardless of the damage dealt.


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## freyar (Jan 16, 2009)

That looks great!


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 16, 2009)

Thumbs up from me too.


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## Shade (Jan 16, 2009)

Updated.

I think that covers all the special abilities.

Skills: 4

Feats: 1


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 16, 2009)

Hm. They're supposed to be scouts, so Alertness makes sense as the feat. Listen, Spot, Hide, Move Silently, all at 1 rank?


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## Shade (Jan 16, 2009)

Updated.

I realized I had them incorrectly at Medium, despite being only 3 foot tall.  That has been fixed (and actually worked to their benefit).

Environment: Any?

Organization: Solitary or x (2-6)?

Challenge Rating: 1/2?

Treasure: None?

Alignment: Always neutral?

Advancement: x


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 16, 2009)

I think we should give them a racial bonus to Spot and Listen checks. +4, perhaps? CR 1/2 seems about right. No treasure, any environment.


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## Shade (Jan 16, 2009)

Advancement: 2-3 HD (Small)?  (That takes them right up to where the strong variant begins)

A walker is 3 feet tall and weighs x pounds.

Sheens speak their own language?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 16, 2009)

The advancement sounds good. As for weight... 150 pounds? They are made out of metals, after all, although probably lightweight ones. Sheens should speak their own language, and the basic ones shouldn't speak anything else.


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## freyar (Jan 18, 2009)

That all sounds pretty good to me.  These seem basically done, then.


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## Shade (Jan 20, 2009)

Updated (with flavor text, too).

Shall we work on the ore-recovery walker sidebar now?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 20, 2009)

Sure!


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## Shade (Jan 20, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Yes. I also think we could give it the ability to find metals and minerals, like a rod of metal and mineral detection.




Before we move on, I forgot this, which has merit.

How's this?

Detect Resources (Ex):  A walker's technology allows it to continuously locate the largest mass of metal within 30 feet.  As a full-round action, the walker can concentrate on a specific metal or mineral. If the specific mineral is within 30 feet, the walker knows the exact location and approximate quantity. If more than one deposit of the specified metal or mineral is within range, the walker senses the largest cache first.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 20, 2009)

Well, I think the ore-recovery walker only should have that ability.


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## Shade (Jan 20, 2009)

Ahh, in that case we can move on.  



demiurge1138 said:


> I agree that miners should get a better Dexterity score. Plasma shovel based on flame blade, but typeless and ignores up to 10 points of hardness?






freyar said:


> Sure!  And 30 ft long...
> 
> Dex 12?






demiurge1138 said:


> Oh, I missed that it's a line. In that case, no need for a high Dex--its more of a breath weapon than a ranged attack.






freyar said:


> The fact that it narrows is kind of weird.  The "skilled touch" bit would indicate a higher Dex, I think, but you're right that it works more like a breat weapon.  Well, I'm fairly happy either way; maybe it doesn't need much control to get the minerals out.






demiurge1138 said:


> What's the hardness of minerals? 8 and higher, right? Perhaps it only affects creatures and materials with a hardness less than 8.






freyar said:


> demiurge, do you mean lower than hardness 8 for the plasma shovel?  That seems fair to me.


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## freyar (Jan 20, 2009)

I like the ability, but maybe all walkers can have it -- that way the regular ones (of which there are presumably more) can tell the ore-recovery ones where to go.  That's not a big point, though.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 20, 2009)

Did we mean to keep minerals in the detection, or just metals? From the original text, it seems that they're more interested in the metals.

freyar raises a very good point.


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## Shade (Jan 20, 2009)

I'd be happy to give it to all walkers.

As for whether to include minerals, it seems it is open to interpretation.  I'm inclinded to say "yes":



> ...their single goal is their own expansion—at the expense of local resources.






> Cysts require a specialized mix of resources, which walkers are suited to locate.  When a walker finds the appropriate mineral and environmental conditions, it returns to its cyst with the report.






> Additionally, walkers specialized for ore recovery (called miners) are common in areas rich in the mineral resources sought by a growing cyst.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 20, 2009)

Yeah, let's make it metals and minerals. They clearly need to harvest plenty of tiberium crystals, vespene gas, what have you


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## freyar (Jan 21, 2009)

Absolutely!


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## Shade (Jan 22, 2009)

Updated.

Here's an attempt to summarize what you guys came up with for the plasma shovel...

Plasma Shovel (Ex):  Three times per day, an ore-recovery walker can vent superheated plasma from the tip of its digger arm in a 30-foot line.  This deals 4d10 points of damage.  A successful DC X Reflex save halves the damage.  Creatures and materials with a hardness greater than 8 are immune to the plasma shovel's effects.  The save DC is Constitution-based.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 22, 2009)

This deals 4d10 damage... to all creatures and unattended objects in the line?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 22, 2009)

It occurs to me that the ore recovery walker should be a variant of the strong walker. Why? Two reasons:

1) Giving a 4d10 breath weapon to the piddly little walker would be weird, CR wise

2) Walkers are Small and weak, making them poor for carrying heavy loads. Like the metals and minerals recovered.


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 22, 2009)

Edit: Stupid double posts! The forums are slow and buggy today.


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## Shade (Jan 22, 2009)

Agreed on all counts (including the board sluggishness).


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## freyar (Jan 23, 2009)

Same here.  So should we do the strong version first then?


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## Shade (Jan 23, 2009)

Sure!



> Walker, Strong Variant: AC 0 (reinforced metallic foil + Dex); MV 12; HD 4+1; hp 36; THAC0 15; #AT 2; Dmg 1d6/1d6 (sampler arms); SA Electrical discharge; SD Grade 1 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (4’ diameter); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 975; Str 16, Dex 16, Con 16, Int 5, Wis 5 Cha 0.




It looks like we simply raise the HD, boost ability scores, increase speed, improve AC, and add a second sampler arm attack.


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## freyar (Jan 23, 2009)

I'll let you do that.   Since the CR is probably a little higher, maybe make the electrical discharge a little more damaging?  Say 3d4 or 2d6?


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## Shade (Jan 27, 2009)

3d4 sounds good.

Added to Homebrews.


Skills: 7 (walker has Hide, Listen, Move Silently, Spot)

Feats: 2 (walker has Alertness)

Challenge Rating: x

Advancement: x


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 27, 2009)

Hide 1 rank, Listen 2 ranks, Move Silently 1 rank, Spot 3 ranks.

Feats: Weapon Focus (slam), Alertness.

CR: 3?


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## freyar (Jan 27, 2009)

Sounds good.  I guess we're about ready for the ore-recovery ones.

Noticed a typo in the "Oerth" section.  It should be "their whereabouts" instead of "there whereabouts."  This is probably also in the normal walker, too.


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## Shade (Jan 28, 2009)

Updated.

Advancement: x

A strong walker is 4 feet tall and weighs x pounds.  (Remember, they are a foot taller than a standard walker and have a "reinforced" metallic foil)


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 28, 2009)

250 pounds?


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## freyar (Jan 28, 2009)

250 lb works.  

5-8 HD (Small)?


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## Shade (Jan 28, 2009)

Updated.

Rather than list all the changes for the miner as a sidebar, let's just give it its own entry.  Reasonable?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 28, 2009)

Reasonable.

Edit: We should do more to differentiate it from the strong walker besides the plasma torch. Boost Str by 2, drop Dex by 2, let it count as Medium for the purposes of carrying capacity?


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## freyar (Jan 29, 2009)

Agreed to all that.


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## Shade (Jan 30, 2009)

Great suggestions!   I'll get a Homebrew entry going shortly.


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## Shade (Jan 30, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

Switch up the skills and feats?  I'd imagine they are less focused on stealth and detection, and more on resource acquisition.   Maybe Knowledge (geography)?  Search?  Profession (miner)?


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## freyar (Jan 30, 2009)

Knowledge (geography) 2, Search 2, Profession (miner) 3?


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## demiurge1138 (Jan 30, 2009)

Those skills all appeal.

I'm confused by the description in italics. It says the thing has three limbs--two legs and an arm--but it has two slam attacks. And which one is the digger arm for the purposes of the plasma shovel?


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## freyar (Jan 31, 2009)

The 2 slams are probably left from the strong version, which I think has two arms (at least the original lists 2 attacks from sampler arms).  So we can either drop the second attack or add an arm.  I think the plasma shovel is attached to the arm that has the slam.  At least, that's the way I read the original monster.

Are we just treating the plasma shovel as a line breath weapon?


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## Shade (Feb 3, 2009)

Freyar's right...the original miner was based off the standard walker, whereas our conversion is based off the strong walker, which gained a sampler arm.

So I'd recommend we just update the flavor text to reflect the additional arm.

I think the line breath weapon probably works well.  Thoughts?


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## freyar (Feb 4, 2009)

Let's change the flavor for the second arm, but still only give it one shovel.  

I agree with treating the plasma shovel as a line breath weapon, every 1d4 rounds?  We should specify how much ore it can dig out per use.


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 5, 2009)

Well, it vaporizes all dirt and soft rock in a 30ft line, then digs from there and picks up any valuable ores unearthed. I don't think we should specify a specific amount of ore it can grab--although carrying capacity is probably a good idea.


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## freyar (Feb 5, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Well, it vaporizes all dirt and soft rock in a 30ft line, then digs from there and picks up any valuable ores unearthed. I don't think we should specify a specific amount of ore it can grab--although carrying capacity is probably a good idea.



Works for me.  Are we going to treat them as Medium for purposes of encumbrance?  That'll make a bit of difference.


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2009)

Updated.

Skills: Knowledge (geography) -1, Profession (miner) -1, Search -1

I think we should swap out the walker's +4 racial bonus on Listen and Spot checks to shore up the 3 skills above.

Feats: Weapon Focus (slam), 1 more
Skill Focus (Profession [miner])?


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 6, 2009)

Agreed to changing the racial bonuses. Skill Focus would make for a fine second feat.


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## Shade (Feb 6, 2009)

Updated.

Is the plasma shovel enough to bump them to CR 4?  

Anything else remaining for the miner?


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 6, 2009)

A strong 3 or a weak 4. I could go either way.


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## freyar (Feb 8, 2009)

Let's go CR 4.

If we want to list carrying capacity, a standard miner walker has light load of 100 lb. or less, medium load of 101–200 lb, and heavy load of 201–300 lb.


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## Shade (Feb 9, 2009)

Since you went to all the trouble of determing carrying capacity, the least we can do is list it.  

Updated.


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## freyar (Feb 9, 2009)

Well, in this case it was just copying a line from the SRD table. 

But it looks done!


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## Shade (Feb 10, 2009)

*Drifters*
Drifters float like carnival balloons, through heated air doesn’t seem to come into play (for that matter, neither do spells of flying or levitation, nor does telekinesis seem to be responsible for lift).  A drifter’s body is composed mostly of a lumpy metallic ovoid 4 feet long and 3 feet broad.  Three metal limbs, called sampler arms, hang from the bottom of the shiny egg.  Like walkers, a drifter’s sampler arms are good for both taking stock of the environment and defending themselves from harm..

Drifters are like walkers in that they fulfill a similar function for the machine cyst.  However, in addition to providing leads toward replenishing dwindling resources, drifters are also important to an existing machine cyst’s defensive perimeter.  Generally, several drifters are always deployed within 1d4 miles of a machine cyst.  Via an invisible and not yet understood means of communication, drifters can signal a machine cyst when potential organic intruders trespass.  Until reinforcements are mustered, drifters can serve as the first line of defense.
Unlike walkers, drifters can replenish their energy stores through simple exposure to the sun.

Smaller varieties of the drifter are called flitters for their quicker movement.  Flitters often serve as “familiars” for machine mages.  The flitter can actually project its excess electrical charge in the form of a small electrical bolt, but it possesses only a single manipulator arm.

*Drifter, machine life form (1d4): * AC 6 (metallic foil); MV 0, fly 12 (A); HD 3+1; hp 27; THAC0 17; #AT 3; Dmg 1d6 (sampler arm); SA Electrical discharge; SD Grade 2 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (4’ long); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 650; Str 10, Dex 10, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 5 Cha 0.
SA – Electrical discharge.  See similar SA for walker; drifters can use this ability 5/day.  Furthermore, usage does not deplete a drifter’s energy stores.
SD – Grade 2 defensive field.  See similar SA for walker; drifter defensive field drains 2 points of damage per physical attack, to a maximum of 12 points of damage per day.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  See similar SW for walker.

*Flitter, machine life form (1d4):*  AC 2 (metallic foil + Dex); MV 0, fly 20 (A); HD 3+1; hp 27; THAC0 17; #AT 1; Dmg 1d4 (manipulator arm); SA Electrical bolt; SD Grade 2 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (4’ long); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 975; Str 10, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 5 Cha 0.
SA – Electrical bolt.  Flitters can build up an electrical charge in their forward sensor array 3/day.  Unlike other sheens, the flitter can project an excess electrical charge at any target within 30 feet for 3d4 points of electrical damage.  Victims who make successful saving throw vs. spells suffer only half damage.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #258 (1999).


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 10, 2009)

OK. So... good fly speed as an Su, 3 slam attacks, better discharge, better defensive field... do we want to make the alert thing based on a mental alarm?


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## freyar (Feb 10, 2009)

I was actually thinking that the flight should be Ex, since these are basically machines.  

I could see the alert based on alarm or telepathy, but I think it should still be Ex.

Going back to the walkers a moment, should the defensive field also be Ex?


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 10, 2009)

They're machines... but they're magitech. I think it's perfectly acceptable for them to have Su qualities.


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## freyar (Feb 11, 2009)

I'll give Shade the deciding vote.   From the original text, it's not clear to me if they are magitech or just sufficiently advanced to appear magical.


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## Shade (Feb 12, 2009)

I'm torn, but leaning slightly toward Su, due to the prominence of "magitech" in the articles.

The deciding factor, I think, is whether an antimagic field should be able to negate these abilities.


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 12, 2009)

I think it should, personally.


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## freyar (Feb 12, 2009)

Well, I'll yield to the majority here.


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## Shade (Feb 24, 2009)

So, after 12 days to ponder this, are we still good with Su?


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 24, 2009)

Yes.


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## freyar (Feb 25, 2009)

Yup.

Wow, how'd we drop these for so long?


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## demiurge1138 (Feb 25, 2009)

They're not fey, that's what!


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## freyar (Feb 26, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> They're not fey, that's what!



But they're robots!


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## Shade (Feb 26, 2009)

That gives me an idea...feybots!  

Added to Homebrews.

Shall we work on the mental alarm/telepathy?


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## freyar (Feb 28, 2009)

Sure!  Here's the relevant text from the spell:


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> Mental Alarm: A mental alarm alerts you (and only you) so long as you remain within 1 mile of the warded area. You note a single mental “ping” that awakens you from normal sleep but does not otherwise disturb concentration. A silence spell has no effect on a mental alarm.



Probably we want to make this a choice of the drifter to alert all the other sheens in the hive (is it hive?).


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## Shade (Mar 3, 2009)

'tis a cyst.  

Agreed that it should be drifter's choice to awaken the others.


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## freyar (Mar 3, 2009)

Alert (Su?): If a drifter senses a danger, it may telepathically alert the other members in its cyst within 4 miles.  Other than the range and alerting multiple creatures, this functions as the mental alarm function of the alarm spell.


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## demiurge1138 (Mar 4, 2009)

Looks good.


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## Shade (Mar 5, 2009)

Updated.

Skills: 6
Listen and Spot?

Feats: 2


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## demiurge1138 (Mar 5, 2009)

Listen and Spot make the most sense. 

Alertness and Weapon Focus for the feats? I could see an argument for Improved Initiative as well.


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## freyar (Mar 5, 2009)

Maybe Imp Init instead of WF.  These need a chance to use alert before attacking, for ex.


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## Shade (Mar 5, 2009)

Updated.

Organization: Solitary or perimeter (2-4)?

Challenge Rating: 2?

Advancement: 4-6 HD (Medium)?

A drifter is 4 feet long, 3 feet wide, and weighs x pounds.


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## demiurge1138 (Mar 5, 2009)

I like perimeter for the group noun. CR 2 seems pretty reasonable. I honestly have no idea about weight. They're made out of metal and minerals, which is heavy, but they're supernaturally buoyant.


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## freyar (Mar 6, 2009)

So let's go with heavy-ish (unless they're aluminum or mostly hollow), 200 lb?  Then it's clear that flight is Su.


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## Shade (Mar 6, 2009)

Sounds good.  Updated.

Time for the flitter?


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## demiurge1138 (Mar 6, 2009)

Sure!


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## freyar (Mar 6, 2009)

I think we're ready!


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## Shade (Apr 2, 2009)

Smaller varieties of the drifter are called flitters for their quicker movement.  Flitters often serve as “familiars” for machine mages.  The flitter can actually project its excess electrical charge in the form of a small electrical bolt, but it possesses only a single manipulator arm.

*Flitter, machine life form (1d4):*  AC 2 (metallic foil + Dex); MV 0, fly 20 (A); HD 3+1; hp 27; THAC0 17; #AT 1; Dmg 1d4 (manipulator arm); SA Electrical bolt; SD Grade 2 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (4’ long); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 975; Str 10, Dex 18, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 5 Cha 0.
SA – Electrical bolt.  Flitters can build up an electrical charge in their forward sensor array 3/day.  Unlike other sheens, the flitter can project an excess electrical charge at any target within 30 feet for 3d4 points of electrical damage.  Victims who make successful saving throw vs. spells suffer only half damage.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #258 (1999).


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 2, 2009)

Do we want to make the charge bolt a 30ft line or a ranged touch attack?


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## freyar (Apr 2, 2009)

I think I can see justification for both in the original text, and I kind of prefer a ranged touch.  Could allow SR to apply, I guess, by making it an Sp loosely based on shocking grasp, if we really want to keep the flavor of the saving throw.


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 3, 2009)

I'd rather it be a ranged touch attack, personally, but a bolt would also work (and be somewhat more powerful).


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## freyar (Apr 3, 2009)

Let's do ranged touch.  Not allowing a save or SR makes up a bit for only hitting one target, assuming these guys get a good ranged attack modifier.


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## Shade (Apr 6, 2009)

That sounds good.

Stick with Medium or make 'em Small?


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## freyar (Apr 6, 2009)

Stay Medium, I think.  They're about as big as the drifter.


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## Shade (Apr 7, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

Wanna mix up the feats at all?

Reduce the weight since they are "smaller" than drifters?


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## freyar (Apr 7, 2009)

Cut weight to 150lb?

I kind of like Point Blank Shot for these.  Add it as a bonus or drop Alertness?


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## freyar (Apr 7, 2009)

Rickerfritzing double post.


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 7, 2009)

Agreed to dropping Alertness for Point Blank Shot.


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## Shade (Apr 9, 2009)

Updated (wow, I haven't been able to successfully do that in a couple days!)

Do we need to come up with an Improved Familar level for these things?


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## freyar (Apr 9, 2009)

Huh.  What did we do for the drifter?  If we had one for that, maybe a level or two higher?


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## Shade (Apr 9, 2009)

None for the drifter.  The flitter is the first sheen to note its use as a "familiar".


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## freyar (Apr 9, 2009)

Maybe these should actually be Small then.  Hard to imagine such a big familiar!  

As for level, I can't figure out Improved Familiar, actually.  Pseudodragons are CR 1 and you can get them at 7th level, but shocker lizards are CR 2 and you can get them at 5th level.


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 9, 2009)

Improved familiar is certainly an odd beast. And I'm not so sure I like these guys as familiars, what with their size. Perhaps we give them a cohort level adjustment and call it a day?


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## freyar (Apr 9, 2009)

That sounds like the right thing to do.


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## Shade (Apr 10, 2009)

Good idead.  +3?


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## freyar (Apr 10, 2009)

Ok!


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 10, 2009)

I can get behind that.


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## Shade (Apr 10, 2009)

Updated.   All done?


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## freyar (Apr 11, 2009)

Looks good to me!  Next?


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## demiurge1138 (Apr 11, 2009)

Let's move on.


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## Shade (May 5, 2009)

*Dasher*

Dashers are generally noted only by the effects of their speedy passage: a wind, a trail of sparks over stones, and a hail of small debris swept up in the dasher’s wake.  A dasher moves at less than full speed only if damaged.  Still, Sheenchasers have trapped dashers and noted their basic shape before meltdown (see SW); a dasher resembles a nightmarishly elongated iron mantis, complete with six spindly legs used only for running at insane speeds; it falls over if slowed to less than 30 mph.

Dashers are the reason machine cysts are usually found on open ground.  Although dashers can clear barriers less than 20 feet high with a single stride, the speedy machines can’t turn well.  Foes who take shelter inside a solid structure (tents don’t count), are backed up against a wall, or who throw themselves flat upon the ground are immune to the blindingly swift attack of a dasher.  The only possible attack against a moving dasher is to set a weapon against a charge.  (A dasher’s attacks are all charges).  Targeting a spell is almost impossible, although _wall _spells and other area effects can be quite effective .

A dasher expends an extraordinary amount of energy and must return to the machine cyst daily to replenish its energy stores.  If it fails to do so, it slows to a standstill, tips over, and lies inactive.

*Dasher, machine life form (1):*  AC -3 (reinforced metallic foil plus speed); MV Special; HD 3+1; hp 27; THAC0 17; #AT 1; Dmg 1d20 (high speed mandible slash); SA Enhanced damage due to speed, sonic boom; SD Moving dashers are susceptible only to weapons set against charge attacks, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility, inability to turn or corner effectively, meltdown; SZ M (6’ long); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 1,400; Str 15, Dex 20, Con 16, Int 6, Wis 5 Cha 0.
SA – Speed.  A dasher’s metallic mandible inflicts 1d20 points of damage per attack when delivered in conjunction with high speed.
SA – Sonic Boom.  Once per day, a dasher can generate a sonic boom by accelerating to its top speed.  A dasher’s sonic boom affects all living creatures within a 100’-radius of the effect.  All creatures in the area of effect must make a saving throw vs. paralyzation.  Those that successfully save fall to the ground.  Those that fail fall to the ground and suffer 1d4 points of damage.
SD – Speed.  Non-augmented foes can attack a dasher only be setting a weapon for the dasher’s charge.  A haste spell allows a foe to attack a dasher at the end of the round with a -2 penalty to hit, just before the dasher runs out of attack range for melee weapons.  Hasted foes using missile weapons roll initiative normally, but still attack with a -2 attack penalty.
SW - Speed.  Foes can drop flat, stand against a solid wall or embankment, or enter a solid structure to avoid a dasher’s attacks, due to its inability to turn or corner without a great turning radius.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  See similar SW for walker.
SW - Meltdown.  A huge charge of energy is necessary to power a dasher’s constant motion.  This same speed is responsible for cooling the dasher’s carapace.  If somehow stopped, either by damage or the cunning use of traps and spells, the dasher retains the heat that is a byproduct of its energy storage.  Over 3 rounds, and accompanied by a cherry-red glow, the dasher melts into a pool of slag, utterly destroyed.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #258 (1999).


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## demiurge1138 (May 5, 2009)

Oh man, that's awesome! The dashing attack should be similar to Spring Attack, only not allowing for AoOs for anyone else, either, it looks like.


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## freyar (May 6, 2009)

Agreed.  And it seems like they must always either take a charge or double-move.


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## Shade (May 6, 2009)

Good ideas, all.   

I guess we need to decide on an actual speed, probably something ridiculously high.

Since it can leap 20' barriers, that would require a DC 80 Jump check.  A speed of 230 feet or more would allow an auto-success.   We could also drop lower and give it a racial bonus as well.


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## freyar (May 6, 2009)

I'd vote for a racial bonus on Jump, and maybe lowering the barrier a little.

100 ft base speed? Edit: or something faster, like a dragon flight speed?


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## Shade (May 7, 2009)

We gave the quickling a speed of 240 feet, so dragon flight speeds aren't out of the question.


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## freyar (May 10, 2009)

Hmm, these could be as fast as quicklings.  240 feet and then no worries about the Jumping?  That's fine by me.


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## Shade (May 11, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (May 11, 2009)

Looking good.  How's this?  I'm not sure about adding some restriction to their maneuverability.

Movement Actions Only (Ex): Dashers must move at least their speed in any round, and they may only take double move, charge, or run actions.  

Meltdown (Ex): Any round that a dasher does not move at least its base speed, the dasher loses one-third of its normal full hit points each round.  If it reaches 0 hp, it is destroyed completely and reduced to molten slag due to the extra heat generated by its power source.


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## Shade (May 11, 2009)

Lookin' good.  I think we should also not limit them to moving in straight lines as part of a charge, lest they frequently be reduced to molten slag.


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## freyar (May 11, 2009)

Maybe.  Were charges in 2e the same as 3e?


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## demiurge1138 (May 12, 2009)

Let's not bother with this charging stuff. In 3.x, we've got Spring Attack to play with. If we really want to, we can give them a +2 bonus to attack rolls and -2 to AC at all times, as if they were charging, but we shouldn't restrict them to just charges.


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## freyar (May 12, 2009)

Ok, we could get rid of Movement Actions Only and just keep Meltdown. Then we could have something like

Speed (Ex): A dasher's speed grants it Spring Attack as a bonus feat.  In addition, other creatures may only attack a dasher in melee if they set their weapon against a charge.  A dasher may only make a single turn up to 90 degrees during its movement (?).


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## demiurge1138 (May 12, 2009)

Set against a charge? No... Readied actions, yes!


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## Shade (May 12, 2009)

Agreed to the readied action modification to speed.

So how to account for the ridiculously high damage?   I'm thinking something like decent bite damage for its size plus powerful charge would work.


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## freyar (May 12, 2009)

Readied action sounds good.  Also adding the bit about haste, see how you like it.

Speed (Ex): A dasher's speed grants it Spring Attack as a bonus feat. In addition, other creatures may only attack a dasher in melee if they ready an action to attack the dasher.  An opponent with magically enhanced speed (such as through a haste spell), does not need to ready an attack but may not take a full attack action against the dasher.  A dasher may only make a single turn up to 90 degrees during its movement (?).

I think Shade's idea for the damage sounds good.  How about we try to use a d12?


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## Shade (May 12, 2009)

Sounds good!


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## demiurge1138 (May 12, 2009)

The "can only attack it if X" thing sort of bugs me. It's going to be hard enough to hit this thing with it zipping all over the battlefield--if a PC actually closes with it, I say let 'em fight it!


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## freyar (May 12, 2009)

Shade said:


>




There are clearly no greataxe-wielders in that party.

I'm fine with taking the objectionable stuff out of Speed.


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## Shade (May 13, 2009)

So...

Attack: Mandible slash +4 melee (1d12+3)
Full Attack: Mandible slash +4 melee (1d12+3)

Meltdown (Ex): Any round that a dasher does not move at least its base speed, the dasher loses one-third of its normal full hit points each round. If it reaches 0 hp, it is destroyed completely and reduced to molten slag due to the extra heat generated by its power source. 

Powerful Charge (Ex): When a dasher moves at least its base speed in a round, its mandible slash attack deals 2d12+6 points of damage.

Speed (Ex): A dasher's speed grants it Spring Attack as a bonus feat. In addition, other creatures may only attack a dasher in melee if they ready an action to attack the dasher. An opponent with magically enhanced speed (such as through a haste spell), does not need to ready an attack to attack the dasher normally. 

As an aside, should dashers be allowed the benefits of a haste effect?


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## freyar (May 13, 2009)

Well, demiurge wanted to take the "may only attack" stuff out of Speed, in which case we might as well just give it Spring Attack as a bonus feat.  We could do a Speed to give it some of haste and perhaps an immunity to AoOs?


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## Shade (May 13, 2009)

I thought he was only concerned with the special rules for attacking for hasted opponents.  I believe he recommended the readied actions upthread.

I'm fine either way, though.


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## freyar (May 13, 2009)

Let's let him weigh in, then.   But I think it's looking good.


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## demiurge1138 (May 13, 2009)

Well, readied actions are good for the dasher whilst it is dashing. And I don't like the special thing for hasted people. But, like I said, if the PCs can catch up to a dasher and melee with it, let 'em! It's going to run off next turn anyway.


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## freyar (May 13, 2009)

How about this?

Speed (Ex): A dasher's speed grants it Spring Attack as a bonus feat.  In addition, a dasher is so fast that it does not provoke attacks of opportunity for moving through areas an opponent threatens (an opponent may ready an action to attack a dasher that moves into a threatened area as usual, however).  Finally, a dasher has a +1 speed bonus on attack rolls and a +1 dodge bonus to AC and Reflex saves.


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## Shade (May 13, 2009)

That looks good!


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## demiurge1138 (May 14, 2009)

Agreed.


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## Shade (May 14, 2009)

Updated.



> SA – Sonic Boom.  Once per day, a dasher can generate a sonic boom by accelerating to its top speed.  A dasher’s sonic boom affects all living creatures within a 100’-radius of the effect.  All creatures in the area of effect must make a saving throw vs. paralyzation.  Those that successfully save fall to the ground.  Those that fail fall to the ground and suffer 1d4 points of damage.


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## freyar (May 14, 2009)

Glad we got that point settled.  Next:

Sonic Boom (Ex?): Once per day, a dasher can briefly exceed the sound barrier, producing a sonic boom.  All creatures within 100 ft of the dasher's position at the end of its movement(?) must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or fall prone and take 1d4? points of damage.  The save DC is Constitution-based.

Questions: Still 100 ft range?  From end of movement, start of movement, or where?  Still just 1d4 damage?  Con-based (Str or even Dex seem reasonable alternatives)?


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## Shade (May 14, 2009)

The 1d4 points of damage seems ridiculously low.  I'd recommend we either boost it to 1d8 or more points of sonic damage, or drop the damage altogether and just go with the prone effect.

I'd also recommend boosting the range to 300 feet to cover its movement.


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## demiurge1138 (May 14, 2009)

I think 1d8 sonic damage and prone... and deafened?


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## freyar (May 14, 2009)

1d8 sonic, prone, and deafened sounds good.

I'll let you guys figure out the range and stuff.


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## Shade (May 15, 2009)

How's this?

Sonic Boom (Ex): Once per day, a dasher can briefly exceed the sound barrier, producing a sonic boom. All creatures within 300 ft of the dasher's position at the end of its movement take 1d8 points of sonic damage and must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save or fall prone and be deafened for x rounds. The save DC is Constitution-based.


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## freyar (May 15, 2009)

That works!  1d4 rounds for deafened?


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## demiurge1138 (May 15, 2009)

How about 1d4 minutes?


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## Shade (May 15, 2009)

Sounds good (at least it will after 1d4 minutes).


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## Shade (May 18, 2009)

Updated.



> A dasher expends an extraordinary amount of energy and must return to the machine cyst daily to replenish its energy stores.  If it fails to do so, it slows to a standstill, tips over, and lies inactive.




Does that need an ability writeup, or will flavor suffice?

Skills: 6

Feats: 2

Organization: Solitary?

Advancement: x


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## freyar (May 18, 2009)

What did we do with the other ones?

Spot, Listen?

...


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## demiurge1138 (May 19, 2009)

We gave the others a write-up for recharge, didn't we?


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## Shade (May 19, 2009)

None for the drifter/flitters.

We gave the walkers...

Electrically Charged (Ex): Walkers are powered by electricity. A walker normally carries enough charges to function for up to one month (30 charges). After this time, the walker becomes inert until recharged. Walkers generally return to their cysts before this time elapses.

Each time a walker uses its electrical discharge ability, it expends one charge.

Within a cyst, a walker may fully recharge after one hour of inactivity. Alternatively, a walker can recharge "in the field" if exposed to an attack that deals electricity damage. An attack that deals electricity damage restores 1 charge for every 5 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. For example, a walker hit by a lightning bolt gains 3 charges if the attack would have dealt 15 points of damage. A walker gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage. Regardless of the amount of electricity damage directed at a walker, it cannot exceed its normal maximum of 30 charges.


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## freyar (May 20, 2009)

In that case, let's go for flavor text on this one.


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## demiurge1138 (May 20, 2009)

Yeah, that sounds reasonable (the flavor-text only, that is).


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## Shade (May 20, 2009)

Savory flavor, then.

Skills:  Spot 3, Listen 3?

Feats: 2

Organization: Solitary?

Advancement: x


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## demiurge1138 (May 20, 2009)

Run and Weapon Finesse for the feats.


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## freyar (May 22, 2009)

Advancement: 4-6 HD (Medium), 7-12 HD (Large)?


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## Shade (May 26, 2009)

Updated.

CR 3?

A dasher is 6 feet long and weighs x pounds.


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## demiurge1138 (May 26, 2009)

Let's call it CR 4. It's going to be hell pinning one of these guys down in combat, and they've got pretty good damage output.


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## freyar (May 26, 2009)

Good AC, too.  Except for the low HD, I'd say these could even be higher than CR 4.  A smart party would need to take advantage of its poor saves.


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## Shade (May 26, 2009)

I think all that's left is the weight.  The 4-foot-tall strong walker was given a weight of 250 pounds.   These are 6 feet long.


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## freyar (May 26, 2009)

But skinny, right?  So only 300 lb?


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## demiurge1138 (May 27, 2009)

Weight sounds good. With that, we're finished, right?


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## Shade (May 27, 2009)

Indeed.  

*Render*

These terrible machines resemble monstrously swollen insects, complete with dozens of writhing metallic legs, feelers, and lethal projections good only for cutting and ripping.  As if these weren’t enough, renders possess strange orifices from which they vent destructive energies at distant targets.  Few Sheenchasers have encountered renders and lived, so few visual references exist.  The best is a famous painting hanging in the Vital League’s Motherhouse depicting the conflict between a render and Abele, the founder of the League.

The render fulfills only one need for the machine cyst: defense.  The machine has “evolved” to incapacitate and destroy organic life, and it is good at what it does.  Most machine cysts contain only one or two specimens, but that’s usually enough.  Sheenchasers who come upon renders are in for the fight of their lives.

Renders are sometimes sent on long-term missions by the controlling mind of the machine cyst, usually to deter groups on the verge of finding the machine cyst.  Thus, renders contain an internal energy source good for several years of activity, at a minimum.  All Sheenchasers are taught to respect this arcane energy source, and to leave it well alone if they should ever manage to vanquish a render in combat.

*Render, machine life form (1):*  AC -6 (steel scales); MV 12; HD 16+1; hp 144; THAC0 5; #AT 7; Dmg 1d10 (blade arms x6) and 3d10 (rotating blade “mandibles”); SA Plasma “breath”, electrical discharge; SD Grade 3 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ H (10’ diameter); ML Fearless (20); AL N; XP 19,000; Str 22, Dex 18, Con 22, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 0.
SA – Plasma “breath”.  Three times per day, the render can vent superheated plasma from an anterior valve, creating a searing cone of superheated particles 90 feet long, 5 feet wide at the origin, and 30 feet wide at the terminus.  Creatures struck by the plasma must make a successful saving throw vs. breath weapon or suffer 16d10 points of damage; creatures that successfully save still suffer half damage.  Treat the plasma as fire for purposes of invulnerabilities and protective magics.
SA – Electrical Discharge.  See similar SA for walker; renders can use this ability 5/day without depleting a render’s energy.
SD – Grade 3 defensive field.  See similar SD for walker; defensive fields drain 3 hit points per physical attack.  The render’s self-contained energy source allows the field to reamin up continuously without recharge.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  Machine life is unsuited to resist mage.  Renders make all saving throws vs. magic with a -2 penalty.  In every other regard, treat a render’s magic susceptibility as described under the walker SW.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #258 (1999).


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## freyar (May 27, 2009)

Nice!  Pretty straightforward, but it needs nonzero Cha and probably a boost to physical abilities to go with the 16 HD.  What do you think?


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## demiurge1138 (May 28, 2009)

Yeah, these guys kick ass. We'll need to standardize the cone... and maybe shrink it to 60 feet?


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## Shade (May 28, 2009)

Good call.

Improved Critical and maybe even augmented critical?

Str 26, Dex 18, Con 26, Int 10, Wis 10, Cha 1?   We gave all the other sheens Cha 1, but we could boost these to 10 or 11 to keep it inline with other mental scores, if you'd prefer.


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## demiurge1138 (May 28, 2009)

Yeah, maybe a boost to 10 or 11 would be reasonable.

Augmented critical for the spinning blade mandibles, certainly. It could take Improved Critical as normal for the arm blades.


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## Shade (May 28, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.


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## demiurge1138 (May 28, 2009)

Does this one actually have electrical charges like the rest?


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## Shade (May 29, 2009)

Yes, but not worth tracking, because...



> renders contain an internal energy source good for several years of activity, at a minimum






> SA – Electrical Discharge.  See similar SA for walker; renders can use this ability 5/day *without depleting a render’s energy*.
> SD – Grade 3 defensive field.  See similar SD for walker; defensive fields drain 3 hit points per physical attack.  The render’s self-contained energy source allows the field to reamin up continuously *without recharge*.


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## freyar (May 29, 2009)

Looks good.  Let's drop the reference to charges or say they are effectively limitless or something.

Breath weapon: 60 ft cone, every X rounds up to 3x/day, damage 8d10 electricity plus 8d0 fire, Reflex DC X half. The save DC is Constitution-based.

I figured it's plasma, so I converted half the damage to electricity.  Sound right?


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## demiurge1138 (May 30, 2009)

Sounds right to me.


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## freyar (Jun 1, 2009)

1d4 rounds between?

Breath weapon: 60 ft cone, every 1d4 rounds up to 3x/day, damage 8d10 electricity plus 8d10 fire, Reflex DC X half. The save DC is Constitution-based.


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## Shade (Jun 1, 2009)

Sounds good.  Let's just give it a different name, since it isn't really a breath weapon.   "Plasma spray"?  "Plasma burst"?  "Plasma blast?"


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## freyar (Jun 1, 2009)

I kind of like plasma spray.  

I just noticed that electrical discharge needs an edit, since they don't have slams.  Also, shouldn't hitting a charged sheen with a natural weapon also affect you?  (And do we need to edit other sheens?)

I saw over the weekend that the CC has 3e versions of the sheens, too.  Are they worth looking at?  Edit: never mind, I see you mentioned that in the first post.


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## Shade (Jun 1, 2009)

I'm fine either way on the natural attacks triggering electricity damage.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 2, 2009)

As am I.


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## freyar (Jun 2, 2009)

Well, I guess I like the natural attacks triggering electricity damage, but it's not a big deal either.


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## Shade (Jun 2, 2009)

Since you are the only one with a strong opinion, you win!  

Updated.

Skills: 38
Feats: Improved Critical (blade arms), 5 more


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## freyar (Jun 2, 2009)

Spot and Listen make sense as skills, but Tumble feels nice for these somehow.  If they're sometimes scouts, Hide and Move Silently are good, too, but their size penalizes that.  Thoughts?

Skill selection might affect the feats.  But we might also try: Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, Spring Attack, Whirlwind Attack.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 3, 2009)

Not smart enough for Expertise and Whirlwind, and I don't think we should bump their intelligence to accomodate. I like the Spring Attack chain, though. Stealthy and Multiattack, perhaps?


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## freyar (Jun 3, 2009)

Err.  Forgot about the Int.  Multiattack should have been a no-brainer.  Go with Stealthy and put the ranks in Hide and Move Silently?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 3, 2009)

I approve of ranks in Hide and Move Silently. Also Listen and Spot, though. Let's see what it looks like after a fairly even division of ranks and see if we think it needs racial bonuses.


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## Shade (Jun 3, 2009)

Wanna rethink the stealth/mobility package?  



> The render fulfills only one need for the machine cyst: defense.  The machine has “evolved” to incapacitate and destroy organic life, and it is good at what it does.  Most machine cysts contain only one or two specimens, but that’s usually enough.  Sheenchasers who come upon renders are in for the fight of their lives.






> Renders are sometimes sent on long-term missions by the controlling mind of the machine cyst, usually to deter groups on the verge of finding the machine cyst.  Thus, renders contain an internal energy source good for several years of activity, at a minimum.  All Sheenchasers are taught to respect this arcane energy source, and to leave it well alone if they should ever manage to vanquish a render in combat.




It sounds like Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, and other "maximize punishment" feats are in its wheelhouse.  

With 7 attacks, I'd think it would rarely want to do anything other than a full attack!


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 4, 2009)

Fair enough.

Power Attack, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Great Cleave, Improved Initiative and... Hold the Line?


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## Shade (Jun 4, 2009)

Excellent...I always forget about Hold the Line. 

Split ranks between Listen and Spot?


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## Leopold (Jun 4, 2009)

Since they are living learning machines why not tack on some ranks in Knowledge (Local) or Knowledge(nature).


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 4, 2009)

Because they're interested only in killing and defense of the hive. There'll be later information gathering sheens for whom that'd be appropriate. I'm fine with just Listen and Spot.


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## Leopold (Jun 4, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Because they're interested only in killing and defense of the hive. There'll be later information gathering sheens for whom that'd be appropriate. I'm fine with just Listen and Spot.




My idea was to add a bit of flavor and some skill on seeing if it saw something that it knew it could mimic/create it would do so. Just a few points pout into it I was thinking 3 or 4. 

I understand there are more coming, wanted more than just Listen and Spot. Swim? Climb? These are more like the T1000?


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## freyar (Jun 4, 2009)

Climb or Tumble would be my additional skills if we do more than Listen and Spot.  Could do Climb 9, Listen 10, Spot 10, Tumble 9 for ranks.  

This is looking pretty good -- I approve of the feats!


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## Shade (Jun 4, 2009)

Hmmm...since these guys essentially exist only to intercept trespassers and destroy them, I think it is most important for them to be able to detect the interlopers' approach.  If something sneaks past it, the render has failed in its sole purpose.   At 16th-level, there'll be some sneaky trespassers out there.

Let's stick with max ranks in Listen and Spot.   Tumble wouldn't really help them much, since they're designed to dish out a full attack while taking some hits (and shocking those that strike it).   Its Strength is probably good enough to allow it to climb most obstacles it will encounter.

Updated.

I had to drop Improved Initiative because we had one too many feats.  If we think its needed, we can make it a bonus feat.

Organization: Solitary or pair?

Challenge Rating: 14?  It's a bit more punishing than an iron golem, although a bit less hardy.

Advancement: 17–24 HD (Large); 25–54 HD (Huge)?  (This follow iron golem advancement)


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 4, 2009)

If we're worried about high level characters sneaking past it, blindsense, tremorsense, blindsight and/or see invisibility would all help. And help it earn that CR 14.


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2009)

Giving it any of those is fine with me, though perhaps tremorsense is less helpful at that level due to flight (I don't have much experience, so you tell me). I guess tremorsense feels the most flavorful, but I'm fine with any.  If we go with blindsense of blindsight, we can drop Spot and Listen.  Climb and Jump (rather than Tumble) or even Balance?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 5, 2009)

Tremorsense is the most flavorful, I agree. Blindsense wouldn't preclude Spot and Listen at all--blindsight would make those skills less useful, though.

I recommend tremorsense and Blind-Fight as a feat (drop Great Cleave, methinks). In my experience, at level 14, the entire party generally isn't flying at all times.


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2009)

Actually, 


			
				SRD said:
			
		

> The creature usually does not need to make Spot or Listen checks to pinpoint the location of a creature within range of its blindsense ability, provided that it has line of effect to that creature.



though I guess Spot and Listen would be useful out of the range.  However, I like tremorsense and blind-fight better also.


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## Shade (Jun 5, 2009)

OK, so summarizing...

Blind-Fight over Great Cleave?
Tremorsense 60 ft.?
Improved Initiative as bonus feat?
Listen +19, Spot +19?  Or drop one of them and give it Jump +19 (to help with low-flying aerial foes)?


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2009)

Yes, yes, yes, and I'm kind of ambivalent.


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## Leopold (Jun 5, 2009)

freyar said:


> Yes, yes, yes, and I'm kind of ambivalent.





I 2nd all this. Jump, meh it'll hang from trees if needbe. Kill everything it can on the ground and then report in.


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## Shade (Jun 5, 2009)

Updated.

A render is 10 feet in diameter and weighs x pounds.


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2009)

Like a car, I guess.  2500 lb?

Electrical discharge is still talking about slam attack.  I suggest we switch to blade arm attack, since that's primary (or we could also allow rotating blade mandibles if you like).


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## Shade (Jun 5, 2009)

Agreed with all that.

Updated.

All done?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 5, 2009)

Electrical discharge on the blade arms, methinks. And let's stick to Spot and Listen.


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## freyar (Jun 5, 2009)

Looks good!  Ready for the next one...


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## Shade (Jun 11, 2009)

*Roller*

A roller’s body is composed of two parts.  The lower chassis takes the form of six metallic barrel-like wheels on flexible axles. This “roller chassis” connects to the upper body via a short flexible stalk, allowing the upper body to swivel in all directions.  The upper body is a mass of irregular iron and crystal nodes, spheres, and chips.  The main purpose of the upper module seems to be as an anchor for the two massive metallic arms that protrude from either side.  The arms are jointed in three places and end in large shovel-like hands edged with tiny, metal teeth.  Rollers appear in two sizes: Medium (standing 7 feet tall with 6 HD) and Huge (standing 15 feet tall with 18 HD).

Sheenchasers theorize that rollers serve the cyst in two ways.  They perform heavy digging and construction, as their shovel-like hands are particularly well suited for such tasks.  However, in the face of armed resistance from biological life, rollers are also useful as powerful defenders of a cyst or elite portions of a sheen strike team.

Rollers must return to the machine cyst in which they were constructed once every month to replenish their energy stores.  If a roller’s energy is depleted and not replenished, it becomes inert.  Those who fight and salvage sheens have had some success in “recharging” rollers with finely focused shocking grasp spells.

Roller, sheen (6 HD: 2d4, 18 HD: 1d2):  AC -3 (iron chassis); MV 9 (24 on smooth surfaces); HD 6 or 18; hp 48 or 164; THAC0 15 or 4; #AT 2; Dmg 6 HD: 4d4, 18 HD: 4d10 (shovel-enhanced arms); SA grasp, 18-HD version can attack foes up to 10 feet away; SD Grade 3 defensive field, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (7’ tall) or H (18’ tall); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 650 or 9,000; Str 14 or 24, Dex 9, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 5, Cha 0.
SA – Grasp.  If a roller strikes the same foe with both of its attacks in the same round, the roller grapples the foe and attempts to pull it in two.  The foe (or a friend of the foe) can attempt a Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll each round to break free.  Each round the foe remains in the roller’s grasp, the roller automatically inflicts its maximum possible damage.
SD – Grade 3 defensive field.  Rollers constantly generate a physical protective field from virtual particles.  Generally invisible, the defensive field drain 3 points of damage from every successful attack directed at the sheen, to a maximum of 108 hit points/day.  Magical attacks that deliver direct damage, such as fireball, lightning bolt, and so on, are also affected by the defensive field, but only after respective saving throws are made.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  Most forms of machines are unsuited to resist mage, with the exception of mind-affecting magic.  Sheens make saving throws against all spells with a -3 penalty, and sheens suffer an additional +1 point of damage per die of damage delivered from spells that cause physical harm.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball inflicts 6d6+6 points of damage to a sheen.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## Shade (Jun 11, 2009)

I think we can follow a normal Medium to Huge progression, rather than statting two unique versions.  Thoughts?


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## Leopold (Jun 11, 2009)

Yes, make it scalable and only one stat block, this gives us the HD progression easily and limits going larger.

Leave the rest upto the DM.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 11, 2009)

Agreed to normal advancement progression, mentioning in the entry something about how advanced rollers are among the most common of the advanced sheens.

I also think we should give them trample.


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## freyar (Jun 12, 2009)

Agreed to regular advancement and trample. 

Grasp seems like either rend (and I'm going to guess claw=shovel arms) or possibly improved grab plus natural weapon damage (as allowed in grapple).  Thoughts?


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## Leopold (Jun 12, 2009)

these are giant steam rollers aren't they? Would they take the prey capture them and then run them over?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 12, 2009)

Well, from the description, they're more lunar buggies with claw arms. And it's hard to roll over something you're holding without doing as much damage to your hands.


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## Leopold (Jun 12, 2009)

I was thinking they would take their opponent and toss them on the ground THEN run them over.  Lunar buggies with claw arms..hmm.


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## freyar (Jun 12, 2009)

Well, you can trample people who aren't prone, so there wouldn't really be an advantage (by the rules) for it to knock someone down before trampling them.


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## Leopold (Jun 12, 2009)

freyar said:


> Well, you can trample people who aren't prone, so there wouldn't really be an advantage (by the rules) for it to knock someone down before trampling them.




reminded from that scene from Roger rabbit


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## Shade (Jun 15, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

So improved grab/constrict (like monstrous crabs and scorpions) or rend? 



> MV 9 (24 on smooth surfaces)




Speed improves to 60 feet on "smooth surfaces"?


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## freyar (Jun 15, 2009)

Looks like imp grab and some variation of constrict to me.

Not sure what to make of that speed thing.  Maybe replace that with sprint or something more standard.  Edit: or a little more weird -- just no need to make Balance checks on rough terrain.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 16, 2009)

I like the "ignores difficult terrain" rule. Simpler. Elegant. A rule from a more civilized age.


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2009)

Like-so?

All-Terrain Travel (Ex):  A roller sheen ignores all movement penalties based upon terrain (such as ice, undergrowth, etc.).


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2009)

Looks good to me.  It just rolls over things.  

You know, I'd think the juggernaut should have something like this.  Anyone remember if it does?


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2009)

Survey says...nope.


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2009)

Missed opportunity, then. 

Ok, trample 4d8+4 (equal to both claws plus 2x Str)?

Need to add Improved Grab (when it hits with both claws?).  Do we need some kind of SA for the claw damage, or do you just want a reminder that it can do claw damage with a grapple check (as usual for natural weapons)?


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## Shade (Jun 16, 2009)

Constrict like the monstrous scorpions.

Also, here's a strong argument for tacking on rend, too:



> Grasp.  If a roller strikes the same foe with both of its attacks in the same round, the roller grapples the foe and attempts to pull it in two.  The foe (or a friend of the foe) can attempt a Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll each round to break free.  Each round the foe remains in the roller’s grasp, the roller automatically inflicts its maximum possible damage.




Compare to...

Rend (Ex): If a gorynych hits with two bite attacks, it latches onto the opponent's body and tears the victim apart like a wishbone. This attack automatically deals an extra 4d8+13 points of damage.


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## freyar (Jun 16, 2009)

What about Rend, Imp Grab, and Rend damage on a successful grapple check?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 17, 2009)

Yeah, it sounds more like a mauling sort of effect. It grapples, then tears, rather than getting a free tearing every time it hits with both attacks.


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## freyar (Jun 17, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Yeah, it sounds more like a mauling sort of effect. It grapples, then tears, rather than getting a free tearing every time it hits with both attacks.



So back to no rend, but rather Imp Grab and natural weapon damage.


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## Shade (Jun 17, 2009)

In fact, it sounds something like "If it hits with a claw attack and begins a grapple, it may automatically hit with its second claw attack.  If it begins its turn with both claws attached, it may deal automatic damage for both claws each round it maintains the grapple."


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 18, 2009)

I'm not getting the "hits automatically with the second attack if it grapples on the first" out of the text. It sounds like "if it hits with both attacks, it gets to grapple. If it grapples successfully, it tears for bonus damage each round"


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## Shade (Jun 18, 2009)

Yeah, I think I got a bit carried away there.  Your revision makes more sense.  Should we just roll that into the improved grab ability, or call it something else?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 18, 2009)

A worry or maul type ability might be appropriate.


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## Leopold (Jun 18, 2009)

Sounds like the trolls ability is what you are looking for there:

Rend (Ex): If a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage.


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## Leopold (Jun 18, 2009)

Sounds like the trolls ability is what you are looking for there:

Rend (Ex): If a troll hits with both claw attacks, it latches onto the opponent’s body and tears the flesh. This attack automatically deals an additional 2d6+9 points of damage.


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## Shade (Jun 18, 2009)

Not really.  We discarded rend upthread because it is "catch and release".  The worry option actually makes the most sense, if we note that it requires it to use both claws.

Something like this?

Tear Asunder (Ex): A roller that successfully gets a hold on an opponent with its improved grab ability may pull the victim with great force, nearly ripping it apart. This attack deals xdx+x damage each round until the victim breaks free or dies, the roller is slain, or the roller uses one of its claw attacks for another purpose.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 19, 2009)

XDX being double claw damage? 1.5 times Str bonus?


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## Shade (Jun 19, 2009)

That works well, methinks.

Updated.

Skills: 9
Split between Listen and Spot?

Feats: 3
Improved Bull Rush? Power Attack?  What else? Their Dex is too poor for the Dodge/Mobility/Spring Attack chain.  Improved Overrun is probably redundant with trample.

Organization: Solitary, pair, or x (3-8)  (x=convoy?  fleet?)

Advancement: 7-12 HD (Large); 13-18 HD (Huge)?


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## Leopold (Jun 19, 2009)

Improved Sunder? It's a digging Constriticon and used to breaking rocks or other objects for it's job.

If we want to go exotic we could take from the Netbook of Feats:

CONTROLLED CHARGE [General, Fighter]
You can still remain defensive when charging.
Benefit: You are able to make a charge attack without suffering a -2 penalty to armor class.
  CONTROLLED CHARGE Copyright 2005, Jason D. Kemp
  Balance: 4.68 (Purp 4.60, Pow 4.20, Port 4.60, Comp 5.00, Rule 5.00)


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 19, 2009)

Agreed to Improved Sunder as the third feat.


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## freyar (Jun 19, 2009)

Skills seem right.

Improved Sunder is good.

convoy. 

Advancement seems good.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 20, 2009)

Oh, I like convoy. Didn't notice that.


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## Shade (Jun 22, 2009)

Updated.

CR 4?

A roller ranges from 7 to 18 feet tall and weighs x to x pounds.


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## Leopold (Jun 22, 2009)

CR5. Weighs 4000-6000lbs.


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## freyar (Jun 22, 2009)

That sounds fair.


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## Shade (Jun 23, 2009)

Updated.

Anything left for this one?


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## Leopold (Jun 23, 2009)

looks good. More and more I read about these things I wish there was a whole module devoted to them..


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 24, 2009)

Agreed to CR 5, and agreed to them being done!


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## freyar (Jun 25, 2009)

All done, next!


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## Shade (Jun 26, 2009)

*Burrower*

Few—that is, few who still live—have actually seen a burrower’s body in its entirety, as it spends most of the time below ground.  The burrower’s body is composed of two segments.  The “burrower chassis” appears as a 24’-long cone composed of a strange mirror-bright substance.  The cone is almost needle-sharp at its origin, and at the base widens to a diameter of only 4 feet.  The anterior segment is connected to the cone via a short flexible stalk, allowing the rear body to swivel in all directions.  This segment appears as a mass of spindly metallic arms, each jointed several times, and each ranging in length from 10 to 30 feet.  All the tentacle-like arms possess small orifices at their end.  The burrower can fire minor but focused plasmatic bursts from each orifice, and it can uses its many-jointed arms to manipulate objects and grapple foes.

The burrower moves through the earth with its cone chassis.  In a manner similar to a water-wheel conveyor belt, the cylindrical sides of the cone constantly flow from tip to base.  The native strength of the cone, combined with a reinforcing  version of a sheen defensive field, allow the cone to pierce even hard rock, and through the action of the moving cone, pull the creature through the earth trailing its mass of manipulative arms after.

When attacking biological lifeforms on the surface or within a nearby cavern, the burrower’s preferred tactic is to tunnel to within a few feet of the open air, then burst through the rock with only its arms, leaving the bulk of its body beneath the surface.

The burrower’s primary function is prospecting.  When mineral-rich veins are found, the burrower can create several shafts, allowing mining-specialized walker sheens easy access.  In a pinch, the burrower defends itself and the cyst by attacking any biological life form that becomes aware of it.  Burrowers must return to the machine cyst where they were constructed once every month to replenish their complete energy stores.

*Burrower, sheen (1d4):*  AC -3 (iron chassis—see SD); MV 6, Br 9; HD 10; hp 50; THAC0 11; #AT 6; Dmg 1d6 (arm lash); SA plasma needles, can attack foes up to 15 feet away from earth; SD submerged tactics, immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ H (24’ long); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 4,000; Str 17, Dex 9, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 5, Cha 0.
SA – Plasma Needles.  In addition to six physical arm lashes, a burrower can simultaneously attack using its burning plasma needles every round, directed from the ends of six other spindly arms.  Foes must be within 30 feet of the end of the arms (up to 60 feet from the arms’ nexus), and are each allowed a saving throw vs. paralyzation.  On a failed save, the foe suffers 1d4+1 points of damage.  Note that a burrower could concentrate all its plasma needles attacks on a single foe, forcing multiple saves.
SD – Submerged Tactics.  The burrower launches its attacks from beneath protective earth, using only its long arms.  All attacks aimed at the protected sheen’s chassis incur a -8 penalty to attack roll due to cover.  Foes can attempt to hit individual arms but suffer a -4 penalty to the attack roll for the called shot.  Each arm has 8 hip.  If a burrower loses six or more arms, it attempts to disengage, though brave foes can attempt to follow it using the 4’-diameter tunnel fo the burrower’s earthy wake.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  Most forms of machines are unsuited to resist mage, with the exception of mind-affecting magic.  Sheens make saving throws against all spells with a -3 penalty, and sheens suffer an additional +1 point of damage per die of damage delivered from spells that cause physical harm.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball inflicts 6d6+6 points of damage to a sheen.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## Shade (Jun 26, 2009)

I think we'll want to re-use this...

Tunneling (Ex): A hammer golem can burrow through solid stone at a speed of 5 feet, leaving behind an intact tunnel. A hammer golem designed for mining (with picks for both hands) can tunnel at its burrow speed. 

In this case, I'd just let it tunnel at its burrow speed.

It sounds like it gets improved cover while underground, and its arms can be sundered like octopus tentacles.


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 27, 2009)

That's... weird. But yes, your suggestions sound like good ones.


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## freyar (Jun 27, 2009)

I'll agree with all that.  Also, it sounds like the plasma needles are ranged attacks that can be used simultaneously with melee attacks in a full attack.  Or a swift action SLA like a 6-missile magic missile with a save.  And fire damage, I guess.  What do you think?


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## demiurge1138 (Jun 27, 2009)

Ranged attacks that can be used as part of a full attack action sounds most reasonable to me.


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## Shade (Jun 30, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

For the plasma needles, we'll need to put freyar's suggestions into a proper ability writeup.


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## freyar (Jun 30, 2009)

Plasma Needles (Ex?): The burrower's plasma needles are ranged attacks that deal 1d4+1 fire damage with a range of 30 ft (no range increment).  They may be used simultaneously with melee attacks as part of a full attack action.

Then make sure to add "and 6 plasma needles" to the full attack.  Look ok?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 1, 2009)

Don't they only work every other round?

And shouldn't they be ranged touch attacks?


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## freyar (Jul 1, 2009)

Here's the orginal ability, relevant parts in bold:


> SA – Plasma Needles. In addition to six physical arm lashes, a burrower can simultaneously attack using its burning plasma needles *every round*, directed from the ends of six other spindly arms. Foes must be within 30 feet of the end of the arms (up to 60 feet from the arms’ nexus), and are each allowed a saving throw vs. paralyzation. On a failed save, the foe suffers 1d4+1 points of damage. Note that a burrower could concentrate all its plasma needles attacks on a single foe, forcing multiple saves.



So I think every round.  I had been thinking ranged touch, so I'm fine with that, but I thought we'd said plain ranged earlier.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 1, 2009)

Sorry. I saw "every other" for some reason.


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## Shade (Jul 1, 2009)

Looks good!

Updated.

Should they be able to "regrow" sundered tentacles as an extension of the rapid repair ability, or should they only be repaired at the cyst?  Should the process take 1 day (rather than 1d10+10 days like the squid)?


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## freyar (Jul 1, 2009)

Let's go to a day.  I also think that these have more like a dozen tentacles, even though they can only use 6 tentacles and 6 plasma needles at a time.  But that's just my reading.  Otherwise, we should note that sundering a tentacle also reduces the number of plasma needle attacks by one.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 2, 2009)

Well, the tentacle attacks or plasma needles. Six arms strike physically, six shoot lasers.


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## Shade (Jul 2, 2009)

Good point...it has at least 12 tentacles.

Should the sundering character select which type of attack it loses?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 2, 2009)

Hm. A Reflex save to attack the right tentacle or something? They're all whipping about wildly, from the description. If you wanted to ignore that because it's too complicated, I'd be fine dropping it, but it's something to consider.


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## freyar (Jul 3, 2009)

I don't know, in order to do enough damage to sunder, it'd be hard to pick.  I can see the logic for a Ref save or Dex check, but I'm just as happy with a 50% chance of either.


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## Shade (Jul 6, 2009)

Does this suffice?

An opponent can attack a burrower's tentacles with a sunder attempt as if they were weapons. A burrower's tentacles have 10 hit points each. If a burrower is currently grappling a target with the tentacle that is being attacked, it usually uses another limb to make its attack of opportunity against the opponent making the sunder attempt. Severing one of a burrower's tentacles deals 5 points of damage to the creature. A burrower usually withdraws from combat if it loses six or more(?) tentacles. The creature regrows severed limbs in 1 day.  A severed tentacle results in the loss of one of the burrower's tentacle or plasma needle attacks (50% chance of either).


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 6, 2009)

Let's drop the grappling reference, as these guys don't have improved grab.


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## Shade (Jul 6, 2009)

Good call.

Updated.

Skills: 13
Listen and Spot?

Feats: 4
Weapon Focus (plasma needles)?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 6, 2009)

Perhaps in the submerged tactics text, we should mention that it doesn't act as if opponents have cover when it's underground.

Skills: Split between Hide, Move Silently, Listen and Spot?

Feats: Point Blank Shot, Improved Initiative, Stealthy, Iron Will?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 6, 2009)

I have _had it_ with these mothering doubleposts in this mothering thread!


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## Shade (Jul 6, 2009)

Excellent suggestion on the submerged tactics.

Your skill and feat suggestions sound good to me.


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2009)

That looks great, and so do those skills and feats!

What do you think of adding tremorsense to these, like some other burrowing critters?  (There's an odd split on that, but I thought I'd throw it out there.)


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 7, 2009)

Tremorsense seems perfectly appropriate in this case.


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## Shade (Jul 7, 2009)

Updated.

Its skill modifiers are horrid.  Are any racial bonuses warranted?  Reallocate Listen and Spot ranks to the other skills, since tremorsense gives 'em a good chance of locating opponents?

Should we give it extended reach with tentacles?

Organization: Solitary, pair, or excavation detail (3-4)?

Advancement: 11-20 HD (Huge); 21-30 HD (Gargantuan)?


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## freyar (Jul 7, 2009)

Let's move the Spot and Listen ranks.  Should probably put some in Hide!

20 ft reach? That's ok by me.

Organization and advancement look good.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 7, 2009)

Agreed to moving out Spot and Listen, and giving it some racial bonuses to Hide and Move Silently.


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## Shade (Jul 7, 2009)

+8 racial on Move Silently and Hide checks when at least partially burrowed?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 7, 2009)

Sounds good to me.


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## Shade (Jul 7, 2009)

Updated.

CR 7?  It has many attacks, but each deal low damage for its size.


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## freyar (Jul 8, 2009)

Defenses are pretty reasonable with the submerged tactics.  Kind of the opposite of a glass cannon.  Sure, CR 7.  I'd say it's done.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 8, 2009)

CR 8 at lowest. 105 hp and an AC that's usually 31 is nothing to sneeze at.


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## Shade (Jul 8, 2009)

Sound reasoning.  8 it is.

Updated.


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## freyar (Jul 8, 2009)

Looks good.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 9, 2009)

Replace "tentacles" with "tentacle" in the Attack entry, and it looks good!


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## Shade (Jul 9, 2009)

Fixed.  Moving on...

*Phaser*

Among the most recent generation of sheens sporting dangerous new abilities, the phaser is the least noted.  The reason: The phaser can skip through solid matter like a flat stone skips on water.  Those who’ve had the misfortune to see a phaser in its corporeal phase describe it as a levitating black globe, limned in red, approximately 1 to 2 feet in diameter.  Glassy tendrils exude from a single orifice and can reach up to 20 feet from the main sphere.  Crimson light pulses down the tendril mass whenever the phaser corporealizes.  Though fragile, the tendrils are strong enough to ensnare discrete objects weighing less than 500 pounds.  Once ensnared, the sheen changes the object’s phase, then drops said object into solid unphased matter.  When a phased object loses contact with the tendrils, the spirited object explosively (messily, if biological) resumes its corporeal state.

The phaser serves the cyst first as a secret observer, but in a pinch, they are also perfect assassins.  The ability to phase requires stupendous amounts of energy, and even though phasers draw their electrical nourishment from an arcane “zero-point accumulator,” they must still return to the cyst once per week for maintenance.

*Phaser, sheen (1):*  AC 6 (metallic foil—see SA); MV FL 16; HD 9; hp 72; THAC0 11; #AT 3; Dmg grapple (tendrils, see SA); SA change phase; SD immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility, if somehow kept corporeal for 6 rounds the phaser explodes; SZ S (1-2’ diameter); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 3,000; Str 12, Dex 9, Con 20, Int 7, Wis 5, Cha 0.
SA – Change Phase.  A phaser spends most of its time in a state where it and normal matter cannot interact, although the phaser’s sensors allow it to access sensory data from the corporeal world.
The phaser’s preferred method of attack is to corporealize on its initiative while attacking at the same time with its tendrils, applying all 3 attacks against a single target.  IF a target is hit by even one of the tendril attacks, it must make a saving throw vs. paralyzation, or it is grappled.  On the phaser’s initiative in the following round, the sheen attempts to phase itself and its victim; the victim makes a saving throw vs. death magic to remain unphased for the round (which also keeps the phaser corporeal for that round, making it vulnerable to normal attacks).  Alternatively, the victim could attempt to make a Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll (at a +30% bonus) to break free; however, if unsuccessful, the victim is automatically phased.  The victim cannot both choose to resist the phase (with the saving throw) and physically break free (with the Bend Bars/Lift Gates roll).  If the victim can resist the phase change for 3 consecutive rounds, the phaser automatically disengages on the fourth round, having spent too much time in a corporeal state.  The phaser also releases its victim early and phases if it loses 75% of its hit points.
Should a phaser manage to transition a victim to a phased state, the sheen immediately uses its leverage to fling the victim into the nearest solid matter (often the ground), jettisoning its tendrils if necessary.  Inanimate objects must make a saving throw vs. disintegration on the Item Saving Throw table or be destroyed.  Animate victims make a saving throw vs. death magic.  A successful saving throw still inflicts 6d6 points of damage as the victim corporealizes in partial contact with solid matter.  A failed saving throw inflicts 12d6 points of damage.
For every 300 feet the phaser travels, it must “skip” into the corporeal world and spend 1 round there, during which time it is also vulnerable to normal attacks.
SD – Phase Protection:  While phased, the phaser can be seen only dimly and cannot be attacked by normal or magical weapons, or magical spells.  (Phased is not an ethereal or standard incorporeal state.)  A phaser can be attacked only when the phaser itself corporealizes for an attack or when “skipping”.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  Most forms of machines are unsuited to resist mage, with the exception of mind-affecting magic.  Sheens make saving throws against all spells with a -3 penalty, and sheens suffer an additional +1 point of damage per die of damage delivered from spells that cause physical harm.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball inflicts 6d6+6 points of damage to a sheen.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## freyar (Jul 9, 2009)

A bit weird, this one!

Do we want to keep the new "phased" state or revert to standard ethereal or incorporeal?  It seems like it grants the benefits of etherealness (plus immune to force?) but still on the Material Plane, like incorporeal critters.

I'm also thinking that we can use charges again for this one, since they have to disengage after 3 rounds of corporeality.  Perhaps they have 7 charges (since they can be free for a week) and have to use a charge to stay corporeal each consecutive round past the 3rd?  Or use 1 charge/3 round corporeal?


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## Shade (Jul 9, 2009)

We might look to the phantom template in MMV for inspiration.


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

Shade said:


> We might look to the phantom template in MMV for inspiration.



Someone's going to have to tell me how that works...


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 10, 2009)

Phantoms are weird. I don't quite get them myself.

How do we want to do the "rephasing the grabbed guy" bit? Damage as per dimension dooring into a solid object, or should we kick it up a notch?


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## freyar (Jul 10, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Phantoms are weird. I don't quite get them myself.
> 
> How do we want to do the "rephasing the grabbed guy" bit? Damage as per dimension dooring into a solid object, or should we kick it up a notch?



Hmm, and I just meant I didn't have the book! 

Well, I guess I'd vote for kicking things up a notch.  The worst damage from dim door is 7d6, I think, and this starts at 6d6 on a successful save!


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## Shade (Jul 13, 2009)

The main thing I can see taking from the phantom is this:

Incorporeal Jaunt (Su): A phantom can become incorporeal as a swift action. It can become corporeal again as a swift action or a standard action.

Beyond that, I think we should have an ability like this:

Incorporeal Invulnerability (Ex):  A phaser sheen is immune to all attacks while incorporeal, even those from other incorporeal creatures, magic weapons, positive energy, negative energy, force effects, and ghost touch weapons.


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## freyar (Jul 13, 2009)

Ahhh.  Those I like!


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 14, 2009)

I think the incorporeal invulnerability is totally broken. Part of the original creature, yes, but totally broken.


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## Shade (Jul 14, 2009)

Would you prefer standard incorporeality, then?

I really don't see these things as ethereal.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 14, 2009)

Standard incorporeality would make me sleep better at nights, yes.


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## freyar (Jul 15, 2009)

How about we give it the standard sheen defensive shield, then?  Maybe a weak one when corporeal but a bit stronger when incorporeal?  I'm guessing the CR of this thing will be good enough that incorporeality won't be a huge impediment to most parties whacking at it.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 15, 2009)

A very powerful sheen shield when incorporeal suits me just fine. Maybe to a value of 10?


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## Shade (Jul 15, 2009)

Sure!  It's got that "ZedPM" that should provide reasonable power for such a shield.


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## freyar (Jul 16, 2009)

10 sounds ok.


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## Shade (Jul 16, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.

We'll need some special ability that allows it to continue grappling while incorporeal (which is normally not an option).  Also, since it loses its Strength score while incorporeal, we'll need to adjust its grapple modifier or give it some alternate modifier.

And of course, we'll need to work out its nasty "dephase victim" ability.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 17, 2009)

Using Charisma to grapple would be flavorful and appropriate... but all sheens apparently have rock-bottom Cha scores.


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## freyar (Jul 17, 2009)

How about 100 hp/day for the shield?

If we do the dephase victim ability correctly, we might not need to worry about the incorporeal grapple.  The original ability indicates that the victim either gets a save (Will or Fort?) or check (I guess opposed grapple or Escape Artist) to avoid being phased.  But if they fail, the phaser immediately "dephase attacks" them as soon as becoming incorporeal.


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## Shade (Jul 20, 2009)

I found something similar in Fiend Folio...

Incorporealize (Su): A creature grappled and pinned by a spectral lurker's tentacles must make a Fortitude save (DC 22) or become incorporeal itself. This effect temporarily grants the creature the incorporeal subtype (as long as it remains grappled by the spectral lurker), but doesn't automatically allow it to escape the lurker's grapple due to the lurker's ability to make ghost touch attacks. If a victim becomes corporeal while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), it is shunted off to the nearest open space and takes 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that it travels. The save DC is Charisma-based.


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## freyar (Jul 20, 2009)

That's pretty good!  I think we should just specify that the phaser sheen can choose to corporealize the victim whenever it likes. Want to move to 2d6 per 5 ft?  Or do we think it can move far enough in a round to do enough damage?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 21, 2009)

It's pretty darn fast. We can increase it to 2d6 per 5 feet, but it's not a requirement.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2009)

Here are my recommendations...

Increase Cha to 10.

Incorporealize (Su): A creature grappled and pinned by a phaser sheen must make a DC 19 Fortitude save or become incorporeal itself when the phaser sheen utilizes its incorporeal jaunt ability. This effect temporarily grants the creature the incorporeal subtype (as long as it remains grappled by the phaser sheen). The phaser sheen can choose to corporealize the victim whenever it likes, simply by releasing the grapple.  If a victim becomes corporeal while inside a material object (such as a solid wall), it is shunted off to the nearest open space and takes 1d6 points of damage per 5 feet that it travels. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Incorporeal Jaunt (Su): A phaser sheen can become incorporeal as a swift action. It can become corporeal again as a swift action or a standard action.   Unlike most incorporeal creatures, a phaser sheen may make grapple attacks against other incorporeal creatures, and they can be grappled by other incorporeal creatures.  Both the sheen and its opponents use their Charisma modifiers when performing grapple checks while incorporeal.


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

That's fine, though the spectral lurker version would be ok, too.


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2009)

That would necessitate giving it ghost touch tendrils, which seems quite a departure from the original creature.   I'm not strongly opposed, however, if you think that would work better.


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

No, let's go with what you have.  Cha-based grapple is fun and a standard mechanic in some ways.


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 21, 2009)

Grappled and pinned? Is this suggested by the original text anywhere I'm missing, or is this because the power is pretty serious, ala blood drain?


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2009)

Updated.

Skills: 12

Feats: 4


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> Grappled and pinned? Is this suggested by the original text anywhere I'm missing, or is this because the power is pretty serious, ala blood drain?




I think it snuck in from the spectral lurker.  Actually, this is a good point: if we're going to include the mechanic that it only stays corporeal for 3 rounds before losing charges, it should only need to grapple, not pin.



Shade said:


> Updated.
> 
> Skills: 12
> 
> Feats: 4




Definitely Spot and Listen, since it's a spy.  Does it need Hide if incorporeal?

Alertness, ???

You know, this thing should be fearsome, but its grapple bonus isn't so much.  Want to give it a racial bonus or boost Str or something?


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2009)

Yeah, let's drop the pin requirement.

I like the racial bonus approach, as it will aid with incorporeal grappling as well.   We could also give it a stacking bonus based on the number of tendrils attached (a la illithid).


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 21, 2009)

It does need hide, but not Move Silently. Giving it Improved Grapple as a bonus feat is something of which I'd totally approve.


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## freyar (Jul 21, 2009)

Well, Improved Grapple vs a racial grapple bonus are really the same thing once it has Improved Grab.  So let's do a racial bonus, which lets us pick the amount.

4 ranks each of Hide, Listen, and Spot?

Alertness, Skill Focus (Hide), Imp Init, ?


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## Shade (Jul 21, 2009)

+8 racial bonus?

Lightning Reflexes or Iron Will for the last feat?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 22, 2009)

I'd go for Iron Will


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## freyar (Jul 22, 2009)

Agreed to Iron Will and +8 racial bonus.


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## Shade (Jul 22, 2009)

Updated.

Challenge Rating: 7-8?

Advancement: 10-15 HD (Small), 16-27 HD (Medium)?

A phaser is 1 to 2 feet in diameter and weighs x to x pounds.


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## freyar (Jul 22, 2009)

Before we get to that:

In Electrically Charged, at the end, isn't the normal maximum of charges 7 rather than 30?

Based on the original critter, I think we should add the following to Incorporeal Jaunt: "Starting on its fourth consecutive round of corporeality, a phaser sheen must either become incorporeal or spend one charge per round."


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## Shade (Jul 22, 2009)

Nice catches!

Updated.


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## freyar (Jul 22, 2009)

Maybe CR 8.  Advancement is fine.  5 to 10 lb?  Or is the machinery heavy 20-25 lb?

Tactics: Phaser sheens typically refuse to engage in combat unless forced or on a mission to assassinate some particular threat to the cyst.  Due to their limited ability to remain corporeal, a phaser will materialize, grab its victim, and attempt to incorporealize the poor soul.  If the phaser cannot do so within three rounds, it will attempt to disengage and become incorporeal on the fourth round in order to avoid using its electrical charges.


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## freyar (Jul 22, 2009)

Double post!


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## Shade (Jul 23, 2009)

Let's go 20 to 25 pounds, as all that glass in the tendrils has to add up as well.

Updated.

What's left?


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 23, 2009)

I thought we were dropping pinning from the incorporeal jaunt aspect of the grappling.


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## Shade (Jul 23, 2009)

We were.  Thanks for the reminder.  

Updated.


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## freyar (Jul 23, 2009)

I think it's done, unless there's some other SA we're missing.


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## Shade (Jul 23, 2009)

Not unless we want to specifically address what happens to objects...



> Though fragile, the tendrils are strong enough to ensnare discrete objects weighing less than 500 pounds.  Once ensnared, the sheen changes the object’s phase, then drops said object into solid unphased matter.  When a phased object loses contact with the tendrils, the spirited object explosively (messily, if biological) resumes its corporeal state.


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## freyar (Jul 23, 2009)

Same thing as happens to victims?  Could just stick a line in the Incorporealize ability.


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## Shade (Jul 24, 2009)

Good idea.  Updated.


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## freyar (Jul 24, 2009)

One last thing: I'd kind of forgotten about it, but the original seemed to allow a grapple or Escape Artist check to avoid Incorporealizing.  If the sheen has to wait a turn between Grabbing and then Incorporealizing, I don't think we need to add it.  But, as written, I think the phaser can materialize on one round, then on the next round Grab and Incorporealize.  Do you think we should add the possibility of escaping the grapple or leave it as is?  I'm kind of torn.


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## Shade (Jul 28, 2009)

Should we specify that it requires a standard action for the phaser to incorporealize the victim?  That would basically force it to wait a round after grappling, giving time for a victim to attempt to escape the grapple in any of the usual methods.


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## freyar (Jul 28, 2009)

Well, there's the initial grapple attempt.  I'm coming around to the idea that it's fine as is.  Since it takes a swift action to corporealize and another swift action to incorporealize, it can't pop up, grab someone, and disappear all in one round.  I suppose if it won initiative and had a surprise round that could cause problems, but it has a pretty poor initiative.  I think it's ok if you do.


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## Shade (Jul 28, 2009)

I'm fine with it as is.

Shall we move on to the propagator?


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## freyar (Jul 29, 2009)

Sure thing!


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## demiurge1138 (Jul 29, 2009)

Let us continue.


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## Shade (Jul 30, 2009)

*Propagator*

Propagators appear in a variety of animalistic and humanoid shapes, from a distance.  From within 30 feet, it’s easy to see the “animal” for what it is: a sheen.  Its “skin” is an ill-made garment of mirror-bright points, hanging together only with metallic stitching that covers most of the creature.  Cracks and gaps in the skin leak drying blood, though small sparks and tiny red lights also wink from within.  Smeared gore and the strong smell of rot and fetor hint at the terrible transformation responsible for the propagator.

Propagators have two primary manifestations.  The sheens begin as exceptionally tiny glassy nodules (called “Nhan Ohtych Seeds” by divinatory oracles).  In fact, the nodules are so tiny that they are invisible to normal vision, but they have been perceived with true seeing and eyes of minute seeing.  Singly, the nodules are sessile.  (They cannot move under their own power.)  When the glassy nodules come in contact with a notile living creature, they adhere via miniature microtendrils.  Once an organism is “infected,” the nodules begin to replicate on the skin surface and within a week are visible as a rash.  As replication and vitrification continues, the nodules spread over (and throughout) the tiny body surface, killing the host in 1d6 months.  In the final stages, the infected organism appears to be covered in particularly fine glassy particles that catch and refract light into thousands of tiny rainbows.

Though the host organism is dead, the opportunistic propagators makes good use of the bony scaffolding, through much of the excess fleshy matter slowly decays.  An artificial ligature of microtendrils, propagators animate the body, using it to seek out and infect ever more potential motile hosts.

It is uncertain what role, if any, a propagator plays in the overall function of a machine cyst.  It seems clear they were developed solely as a method to eliminate biological life forms.

*Propagator, sheen (2-4): * AC 3; MV 6; HD 8; hp 64; THAC0 12; #AT 1; Dmg 1d12 (flailing strike); SA propagating touch; SD superfluid self-repair nodules regenerate 3 hp/round unless sheen is burned or doused in acid; immune to all mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ M (6’); ML Champion (16); AL N; XP 2,000; Str 12, Dex 5, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 5, Cha 0.
SA – Propagating Touch.  Wounds inflicted by a propagator infect its foe if a saving throw vs. death magic is failed.  (Roll only once at the end of an encounter for eachwounded character.)  The flesh of infected PCs shows a glassy rash within 1 week and proves fatal in 1d6 months.  For each month propagation advances, the victim permanently loses 2 points of Charisma.  Standard healing spells such as cure disease do not affect propagation of the glassy rash.  However, each time the victim is the target of a spell that conducts electricity (such as shocking grasp or lightning bolt), the replicating nodules are scrambled, and the victim is allowed another saving throw vs. death magic at a +1 bonus for each 10 hp of damage inflicted by the electricity.
SW - Magic Susceptibility.  Most forms of machines are unsuited to resist mage, with the exception of mind-affecting magic.  Sheens make saving throws against all spells with a -3 penalty, and sheens suffer an additional +1 point of damage per die of damage delivered from spells that cause physical harm.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball inflicts 6d6+6 points of damage to a sheen.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## freyar (Jul 30, 2009)

Interesting.  Treat the propagating "spores" as a disease?  Something like a slaad egg?  Or something in between?


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## Shade (Jul 31, 2009)

That sounds about right.

Should this be a template?


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## freyar (Jul 31, 2009)

That's an interesting idea.  The shape and size certainly sound like a template, but it would seem like ability scores are relatively fixed (by the machinery).  I'd think HD, too.

I'm leaning toward monster, but I'd start with Small or even Tiny and cover Medium, etc, through advancement.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 1, 2009)

Not a template. The body isn't anything more than scaffolding.


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## Shade (Aug 3, 2009)

freyar said:


> I'm leaning toward monster, but I'd start with Small or even Tiny and cover Medium, etc, through advancement.




That sounds like a good approach!


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## freyar (Aug 4, 2009)

If Medium is 8HD, do we want to start with Tiny at something like 2 or 3 HD or Small at 4 to 6 HD?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 4, 2009)

Let's start with Small and 4 HD. We should also do the write-up for a Medium sized version ourselves.


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## Shade (Aug 4, 2009)

Sounds good. Use original stats for Medium version, and downsize for Small?


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## freyar (Aug 4, 2009)

Ok, Small at 4HD and Medium at 8HD.  

Original Medium scores are Str 12, Dex 5, Con 20, Int 5, Wis 5, Cha 0.  How do we want to modify those?  The 1d12 flailing strike damage suggests greater Str to me, and they don't sound particularly smart, but I don't have much other opinion.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 5, 2009)

I'd say increase Str and Dex a bit, but not too much. The damage from the slam could be due to its being filled with sharp metal filaments, not due to inherent Str. A character with a Str of 12 can still wield a greataxe, after all.


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## freyar (Aug 5, 2009)

True.  2 pts each?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 5, 2009)

I think so. Damage for the slams on the Small version? d10? 2d4?


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## freyar (Aug 5, 2009)

The greataxe downsizes from 1d12 to 1d10, so I suggest we go with the d10 even if 2d4 makes more sense.


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## Shade (Aug 5, 2009)

Added to Homebrews.


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## freyar (Aug 5, 2009)

Still got some phasers in the Electrically Charged bit.

So: did we like disease for the "spores"?  Are slaad eggs a bit different?


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## Shade (Aug 5, 2009)

Hmmm..nothing seems to indicate that these need to return to the cyst to recharge.  Perhaps they are powered by bio-electricity?

Here's a sample slaad egg...

Implant (Ex): A red slaad that hits with a claw attack can inject an egg pellet into the opponent's body. The affected creature must succeed on a DC 16 Fortitude save to avoid implantation. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Often the slaad implants an unconscious or otherwise helpless creature (which gets no saving throw). The egg gestates for one week before hatching into a blue slaad that eats its way out, killing the host. Twenty-four hours before the egg fully matures, the victim falls extremely ill (-10 to all ability scores, to a minimum of 1). A remove disease spell rids a victim of the pellet, as does a DC 25 Heal check. If the check fails, the healer can try again, but each attempt (successful or not) deals 1d4 points of damage to the patient.

If the host is an arcane spellcaster, the egg pellet instead hatches into a green slaad.


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## freyar (Aug 5, 2009)

I'm really enjoying the new speedy EN World, I have to say!  Not sure it's doing much for my productivity at work, though. 



> SA – Propagating Touch. Wounds inflicted by a propagator infect its foe if a saving throw vs. death magic is failed. (Roll only once at the end of an encounter for eachwounded character.) The flesh of infected PCs shows a glassy rash within 1 week and proves fatal in 1d6 months. For each month propagation advances, the victim permanently loses 2 points of Charisma. Standard healing spells such as cure disease do not affect propagation of the glassy rash. However, each time the victim is the target of a spell that conducts electricity (such as shocking grasp or lightning bolt), the replicating nodules are scrambled, and the victim is allowed another saving throw vs. death magic at a +1 bonus for each 10 hp of damage inflicted by the electricity.




The original text is something of a cross between a disease and a slaad egg (thanks for putting that in, another thing I wish was in the SRD!).  I like the interaction of the electricity with the nodules, though I'm not sure about the single save.  Let's go the "unique" route, more like the slaad egg and the original text, I think.  Exceptions are fun every once in a while.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 6, 2009)

Agreed to using the exception here. And I like the idea that they get power from their hosts.


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

Something like this?

Propagating Touch (Ex): A propagator that hits with a "flailing strike" attack can inject replicating nodules into the opponent's body. The affected creature must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save to avoid implantation. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Often the propagator implants an unconscious or otherwise helpless creature (which gets no saving throw). The nodules begin replicating immediately, but show no visible effects for 1 week.  At that time, the victim's flesh shows a glassy rash.  After one month, the victim suffers 2 points of Charisma drain.  Each month thereafter, the victim suffers an additional 2 points of Charisma drain.  A creature reduced to Charisma 0 dies and becomes a new propagator of similar size. A remove disease spell or similar effect cannot remove the nodules, nor can a Heal check. A spell or attack that deals electricity damage will scramble the replicating nodules, granting the victim a new saving throw to end the effect.   The victim gains a +1 bonus on the saving throw for each 10 points of damage inflicted by the electrical attack.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 6, 2009)

We should come up with another way to remove them. Heal (the spell), perhaps? Good ol' break enchantment?


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

Heal seems reasonable.   Perhaps limit break enchantment to say, within 1d4 rounds after the electrical "scrambling"?


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## freyar (Aug 6, 2009)

I'll agree to heal and break enchantment within 1d4 rounds of scrambling.  That sounds pretty good. Although it seems to me that the Charisma countdown isn't going to work very well past 7th level due to restoration.  Still, these will probably be low enough CR that that's not a big issue.


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

Like mummy rot, we could require a caster level check for conjuration (healing) spells (which include restoration).


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## freyar (Aug 6, 2009)

Maybe not for hp damage.  How about for ability damage/drain and removing the nodules?  But I'm not 100% sure it's necessary.  And, come to think of it, the magic vulnerability of sheens would suggest no caster level check should be needed.


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

Good point.  Revising...

Propagating Touch (Ex): A propagator that hits with a "flailing strike" attack can inject replicating nodules into the opponent's body. The affected creature must succeed on a DC X Fortitude save to avoid implantation. The save DC is Constitution-based.

Often the propagator implants an unconscious or otherwise helpless creature (which gets no saving throw). The nodules begin replicating immediately, but show no visible effects for 1 week. At that time, the victim's flesh shows a glassy rash. After one month, the victim suffers 2 points of Charisma drain. Each month thereafter, the victim suffers an additional 2 points of Charisma drain. A creature reduced to Charisma 0 dies and becomes a new propagator of similar size. A remove disease spell or similar effect cannot remove the nodules, nor can a Heal check. A spell or attack that deals electricity damage will scramble the replicating nodules, granting the victim a new saving throw to end the effect. The victim gains a +1 bonus on the saving throw for each 10 points of damage inflicted by the electrical attack.  A break enchantment or heal spell cast within 1d4 rounds of this scrambling will destroy the nodules.


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## freyar (Aug 6, 2009)

I like!


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

> SD superfluid self-repair nodules regenerate 3 hp/round unless sheen is burned or doused in acid;




It sounds like propagators have traditional regeneration rather than the rapid repair of most sheens.



> Propagators appear in a variety of animalistic and humanoid shapes, from a distance.  From within 30 feet, it’s easy to see the “animal” for what it is: a sheen.  Its “skin” is an ill-made garment of mirror-bright points, hanging together only with metallic stitching that covers most of the creature.  Cracks and gaps in the skin leak drying blood, though small sparks and tiny red lights also wink from within.  Smeared gore and the strong smell of rot and fetor hint at the terrible transformation responsible for the propagator.




Some limited form of camouflage?


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## freyar (Aug 6, 2009)

Yes to regeneration (should mention this in flavor text, maybe it's because the nodules are so small, so it's just a matter of rebuilding new nodules?).

And yes to camouflage.  But a low Spot DC, maybe 15 or even less.


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

Updated, except for camouflage.   For that ability, should a creature with scent automatically be able to detect the ruse (due to their rotting smell)?

Small Skills: 7
Small Feats: 2

Medium Skills: 12
Medium Feats: 3


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## freyar (Aug 6, 2009)

Agreed to the scent exception, good idea!

Shouldn't the Medium one have 11 ranks?  Anyway, I like maxing out Spot for these.

Thinking about the feats.  I'm not sure if I want to use Ability Focus on the propagating touch or not.

There's still electrically charged on the SQ line.


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## Shade (Aug 6, 2009)

Yep, 11 ranks for Medium.

Updated.


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## freyar (Aug 7, 2009)

I still say max out Spot. 

Wait, it should be fast healing 3, not regeneration, right?  Damage isn't all nonlethal.

Feats (in order): Imp Init, either Ability Focus (propagating touch) or Skill Focus (Spot), and perhaps Power Attack or Blind-Fight for the bigger one.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 7, 2009)

Living constructs are vulnerable to nonlethal damage, so real regeneration works here. I like the scent call on the camouflage.


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## freyar (Aug 7, 2009)

Yeah, I actually just missed the fire and acid bit on the original monster.  Oops.

What do you think about feats?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 7, 2009)

Improved Initiative and Weapon Focus work for me.


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## Shade (Aug 7, 2009)

Updated.

Ability Focus (propagating touch), Power Attack or Blind-Fight for the extra feat for the Medium version?

Retain the name "Flailing strike" or just call it "slam"?

Organization: Solitary or x (2-4)

Medium version Advancement: 9-x HD (Medium)?  Do we want to make a Large version, simply extend advancement for Medium to larger sizes, or note in flavor text and abilities that they cannot overtake larger creatures?


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## freyar (Aug 7, 2009)

Let's go with Power Attack.

I would say slam, but part of the justification for the large damage die was slashing from shard-like nodules.  It could be something like a tentacle rake.

Solitary or node?

Let's just extend advancement to Large.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 7, 2009)

Extend advancement, agreed to Power Attack and we should have a note in the combat section that their slam does slashing and bludgeoning damage due to the shards.


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## Shade (Aug 7, 2009)

Updated.

Suggested CRs?

A Small propagator is 2-4 feet long and weighs x pounds, while a Medium propagator is 5-7 feet long and weighs x pounds.


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## freyar (Aug 7, 2009)

20 to 50 lb and 150 to 250 lb?

CR 4 and 7?

"node" is missing from the Small organization.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 8, 2009)

4 and 6, I think.


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## Shade (Aug 11, 2009)

Updated.


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## freyar (Aug 11, 2009)

Just put "node" in the Small propagator organization line, and I think it's done.


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## Shade (Aug 11, 2009)

Done!

Now the real fun begins.  


*Arcanosheen*
If propagators were designed as a subtle method of disposing of biological competition, subtlety was lost with the appearance of the arcanosheen.  Thankfully, only one has yet been indentified, but where one can be synthesized, more are sure to follow unless the particular machine cyst responsible is found and burned out.

Built up from a render chassis, the arcanosheen resembles a monstrously swollen insect, complete with dozens of writhing metallic legs, feelers, and lethal projections good for cutting and ripping.  Obvious differences include an underslung translucent dome measuring 4 feet in diameter.  This glassy belly is filled with languidly slushing pink fluid.  Also, the arcanosheen has two metallic arms in addition to its array of cleavers and buzzsaw mandibles.  The metallic arms appear surprisingly humanoid.

The arcanosheen’s render heritage grants it the abilities of a render, including its many physical attacks, a Grade 3 defensive field, and an electrical discharge attack.  However, the arcanosheen gives up the render’s plasma breath to make room for something special.  Its quartzlike bellypod is filled with archiorganic fluid, harvested from a selection of wizards capture in the wrong place at the wrong time (mostly sheenchasers and machine mages).  This hellish broth is baffled with a network of sensitive microtendrils.

These tendrils feed into the arcanosheen’s electronic consciousness and interface with its mechanical hands.  The upshot:  The arcanosheen can cast the spells stolen from organic wizards.  In fact, the arcanosheen functions as a 15th-level wizard.

As a prototype, the arcanosheen is something the parent machine cyst keeps close and always protected by 1d4+1 standard renders.  However, the arcanosheen has demonstrated some autonomy and could be pursuing its own agenda: namely, the inception of a new machine cyst populated solely with archiorganic sheens able to transmit messages and spells back and forth via embedded tendrils.  Perhaps the fabled half-organic Sheen Masters are future inhabitants of the arcanosheen’s hoped-for cyst…

Arcanosheen (1):  AC -6 (steel scales); MV 12; HD 20; hp 160; THAC0 3; #AT 5; Dmg 1d10/1d10/1d10/3d10/3d10 (blade arm x3, buzzsaw mandibles x2); SA casts spells, electrical discharge; SD grade 3 defensive field, inexhaustible energy supply; SW Magic susceptibility, mental susceptibility; SZ H (10’ diameter); ML Fearless (20); AL N; XP 19,000; Str 22, Dex 18, Con 22, Int 18, Wis 10, Cha 0.
SA –Casts Spells.  The semi-automonomous nature of the archiorganic bellypod allows the arcanosheen to cast one spell per round in the same round as physical attacks are made, if any.  The arcanosheen functions as a 15th-level wizard, but cast spells automatically return 24 hours after casting.
Spells*: (5/5/5/5/5/2/1) 1st—sleep, charm person (x2), magic missile; 2nd—mirror image, knock, acid arrow (x3); 3rd—fireball (x2), lightning bolt (x2), slow; 4th—Evard’s black tentacles, wind wall, stoneskin (x3); 5th—cone of cold, (x3), cloudkill, true seeing; 6th—death spell (x2); 7th—finger of death.
*DMs with access to “Mage vs. Machine” (in Dragon issue #258) might wish to substitute sheen-specific spells, if desired.
SA—Inexhaustible Energy Supply.  A revolutionary prototype shared with the phaser sheen (“zero-point engine”) allows the arcanosheen to act without need for a periodic recharge.
SD—Grade 3 Defenseive Field.  See similar SD for roller:  The arcanosheen defensive fields drain 3 hit points per physical attack.  However, the arcanosheen’s self-contained energy source allows the field to remain up continuously despite accumulated absorbed damage.
SW – Mental Susceptibility.  Arcanosheens are susceptible to mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics, but if successfully affected, the arcanosheen jettisons the archiorganic bellypod 1d4 rounds later to regain mental immunity and throw off the mental effect (thus losing its spellcasting abilities).
SW – Magic Susceptibility.  Most forms of machines are unsuited to resist mage, with the exception of mind-affecting magic.  Sheens make saving throws against all spells with a -3 penalty, and sheens suffer an additional +1 point of damage per die of damage delivered from spells that cause physical harm.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball inflicts 6d6+6 points of damage to a sheen.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## freyar (Aug 11, 2009)

Cool.  How about we start with the render and then modify from there?


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## Shade (Aug 11, 2009)

A most excellent suggestion.  

Render


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## freyar (Aug 12, 2009)

The original Render had the same physical stats as this, so let's go with Str 26, Dex 18, Con 26.  Mental stats will depend, I guess, on whether we want to go with Wizard or Sorcerer casting.  Sorc is usually easier, but then we'll want to bump Cha more.  Thoughts?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 12, 2009)

I think sorcerer casting is more likely. The magic is literally in their blood.


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## Shade (Aug 13, 2009)

Sorcerous/Cha-based works for me.   Some of these things have to be greatly self-aware!  Heck, they've got their own agendas.


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## freyar (Aug 13, 2009)

You know, I think a little bump from the render is actually in order.  What about Str 29, Dex 18, Con 29, Int 18, Wis 13, Cha 20?


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## Shade (Aug 13, 2009)

That works for me, although I could see bringing Wis a bit more in line with the other mental scores.


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## freyar (Aug 14, 2009)

Well, it's not so high in the original monster, but I could go up to Wis 17 if you want.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 14, 2009)

I like the lower Wis. Gives it a blind spot.


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## Shade (Aug 14, 2009)

Fair enough.

Added to Homebrews.

Are we going sorcerous spellcasting or SLAs?


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## freyar (Aug 14, 2009)

I kind of like sorc spellcasting for the flavor of it, but you could convince me to go with SLAs.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 14, 2009)

Sorcerous spellcasting, no question.


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## Shade (Aug 14, 2009)

So, it casts as a 15th-level sorcerer?


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## freyar (Aug 14, 2009)

Yup.


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## Shade (Aug 17, 2009)

Spells: An arcanosheen casts spells as a 15th-level sorcerer. 

Typical Sorcerer Spells Known (6/8/7/7/7/7/6/4, save DC 15 + spell level):
0—9;
1st—5;
2nd—5;
3rd—4;
4th—4;
5th—4;
6th—3;
7th—2.


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## freyar (Aug 17, 2009)

I'm going to go for mostly offensive/combat oriented stuff, since that's the feeling I have.  Let me know if you want some other theme, though.

0 - acid splash, daze, detect magic, disrupt undead, flare, ray of frost, read magic, resistance, touch of fatigue
?


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## Shade (Aug 17, 2009)

That sounds about right, since they were engineered to be killing machines.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 18, 2009)

Maybe a few defensive spells, like mage armor or shield, but agreed to a mostly offensive line-up.


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## freyar (Aug 18, 2009)

Ok, then, had to cut out in the middle of that last post, so I'll continue briefly.

1 - chill touch, magic missile, ray of enfeeblement, shield, shocking grasp
(I'd love magic weapon, but it would sadly need magic fang I think)

2 - blur, flaming sphere, scorching ray, touch of idiocy, web

How's it looking so far?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 18, 2009)

Pretty good.

3rd--fireball, haste lightning bolt, vampiric touch
4th—black tentacles, fear, fire shield, wall of fire
5th—cloudkill, cone of cold, wave of fatigue
6th—antimagic field, disintegrate, greater dispel magic
7th—power word blind, prismatic spray


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## Shade (Aug 18, 2009)

It looks great!

Updated.



> SW – Mental Susceptibility.  Arcanosheens are susceptible to mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics, but if successfully affected, the arcanosheen jettisons the archiorganic bellypod 1d4 rounds later to regain mental immunity and throw off the mental effect (thus losing its spellcasting abilities).




We should note how long it takes to reattach the pod, and whether the remaining spells are still available for the day.


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## freyar (Aug 18, 2009)

Ok, demiurge is much faster than I am with the spell lists. 

Let's keep that ability separate from the magic susceptibility.  Since sheens are already affected by mind-affecting, let's call this something else, too.   I also think we should specify the behavior when the pod is detached.  I'll say it acts like a render, but we could have it go into a frenzy of some type.

Mental Detachment (Ex): 1d4 rounds after an arcanosheen falls victim to a continuing mind-affecting effect, its organic bellypod automatically ejects from its body.  This breaks the mind-affecting effect on the arcanosheen, which then behaves precisely as a render would and loses its spellcasting ability.  The bellypod is effectively a helpless creature with X hp (hardness?).  After the end of the duration of the mind-affecting effect (acting on the bellypod), the arcanosheen may reattach the bellypod as a full-round action (?).  The arcanosheen then regains its spellcasting ability, with its unused spell slots remaining (?).


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 18, 2009)

Agreed to full round action, but I'm thinking it might lose some spells. Loses one spell level for every round of duration?


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## freyar (Aug 18, 2009)

That seems a bit harsh if you mean what I think --- the entire level of spell slots.  Maybe its highest remaining spell slot each round?  

Thoughts about hardness for the crystalline pod?

Actually, here's a question about the sheens.  They're metal, so why don't they get hardness?  I suppose the same is true of warforged, but I don't remember.  I mean, besides silly things like gameplay reasons.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 19, 2009)

No, no, I mean, every round it loses one level of spells. If it's out for 13 rounds, it loses 13 levels of spells chosen from its roster, so it could lose a 7th and a 6th, or a 5th and four 2nd, etc.


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## freyar (Aug 19, 2009)

Excellent, what was the other possibility.  Sure, we could do that.


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## Shade (Aug 19, 2009)

Hardness 3 for the bellypod?  It is "glasslike", so that might even be a bit high.


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## freyar (Aug 19, 2009)

Maybe hardness 1.  Though I do still wonder why metal monsters don't generally have hardness.


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## Shade (Aug 19, 2009)

They usually get damage reduction instead.  It's one of those idiosyncrasies in the game:  monsters (usually) have DR, while objects (usually) have hardness.   Animated objects and spider webs didn't get the memo.


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## freyar (Aug 20, 2009)

Hmm, almost the same thing, I guess, after all.  Hardness ~ DR/adamantine. 

I think we just need to decide on hp for the bellypod.  I added a line about if the bellypod is destroyed.

Mental Detachment (Ex): 1d4 rounds after an arcanosheen falls victim to a continuing mind-affecting effect, its organic bellypod automatically ejects from its body. This breaks the mind-affecting effect on the arcanosheen, which then behaves precisely as a render would and loses its spellcasting ability. The bellypod is effectively a helpless creature with X hp  and hardness 1. After the end of the duration of the mind-affecting effect (acting on the bellypod), the arcanosheen may reattach the bellypod as a full-round action. The arcanosheen then regains its spellcasting ability, losing one level of spells for each round the bellypod is detached (hence, if it is detached for 13 rounds, it can lose one 7th and once 6th level spell, one 5th and four 2nd level spells, etc).  If the pod is destroyed, the arcanosheen must return to the cyst to have a new one created.


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## Shade (Aug 20, 2009)

Maybe 40 hp?  I wouldn't want to be too easily destroyed.

Also, I think once it is reattached it should benefit from rapid repair like its parent sheen.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 20, 2009)

60 hp. That might take a full attack action at this level.


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## freyar (Aug 20, 2009)

Agreed to 60 hp.  And rapid repair once reattached.  Sure.

Mental Detachment (Ex): 1d4 rounds after an arcanosheen falls victim to a continuing mind-affecting effect, its organic bellypod automatically ejects from its body. This breaks the mind-affecting effect on the arcanosheen, which then behaves precisely as a render would and loses its spellcasting ability. The bellypod is effectively an object with 60 hp and hardness 1. After the end of the duration of the mind-affecting effect (acting on the bellypod), the arcanosheen may reattach the bellypod as a full-round action. The arcanosheen then regains its spellcasting ability, losing one level of spells for each round the bellypod is detached (hence, if it is detached for 13 rounds, it can lose one 7th and once 6th level spell, one 5th and four 2nd level spells, etc), and the bellypod benefits from the sheen's rapid repair ability from that time. If the pod is destroyed, the arcanosheen must return to the cyst to have a new one created.

Happy with that?


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## Shade (Aug 20, 2009)

I am!   Updated.

Skills: 6 at 23 ranks
Concentration, Knowledge (arcana), Listen, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device?

Feats: Blind-Fight , Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Improved Critical (blade arms), Improved Initiative (B), Power Attack, 1 more
This assumes we keep all the render feats.  We can swap out a few for metamagic feat if so inclined.



> As a prototype, the arcanosheen is something the parent machine cyst keeps close and always protected by 1d4+1 standard renders




Organization: Solitary or x (1 plus 2-5 render sheens)? x="massacre"? "onslaught"?


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## freyar (Aug 20, 2009)

Onslaught!

Skills sound right.  

Maximize Spell.  Swap out Blind-Fight, Combat Reflexes, and Hold the Line for Empower Spell, Spell Penetration, and Spell Focus (evocation?).


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 21, 2009)

I like Combat Reflexes, and would keep it at the expense of Spell Penetration. How many PCs have SR?


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## freyar (Aug 21, 2009)

How about Cleave for SP?  While there aren't many magic items to grant SR, we're likely at highish CR here, and spell resistance is only a 5th level spell.  I guess it depends on how commonly that spell is used; I don't have any experience playing at this level.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 21, 2009)

I've seen spell resistance, the spell, used a few times by PCs, but not often. If you really want Spell Penetration kept, I'd rather drop Cleave than Combat Reflexes, but I don't see it as necessary.


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## freyar (Aug 21, 2009)

No problems, I can see either way.  Shade can fill in as he likes based on the conversation above.


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## Shade (Aug 21, 2009)

I'd rather drop Spell Penetration, as it is too situational for maximum benefit.


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## freyar (Aug 23, 2009)

That's fine, then.  And I think it's good if we come up with a CR.  (Advancement seems fine.)

So... CR 19?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 23, 2009)

I'd say CR 18. Offensive potential is high, defensive potential is low. We could swap a 1st level spell for mage armor to help it out in that department.


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## freyar (Aug 23, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> I'd say CR 18. Offensive potential is high, defensive potential is low. We could swap a 1st level spell for mage armor to help it out in that department.



Sounds good on both counts, though I'm not sure of the spell I'd swap.  It does have shield, also, which we might want to add to the statblock.


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 23, 2009)

Shield lasts for minutes and mage armor lasts for hours. Of the two, mage armor is probably the one that should be put into the statblock. 

I think getting rid of chill touch would be the best option of first level spells to ditch.


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## freyar (Aug 24, 2009)

Swap chill touch for mage armor, leave shield also?  That's ok by me.


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## Shade (Aug 25, 2009)

Sounds good.

Updated.


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## freyar (Aug 25, 2009)

So are these ready now?


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## Shade (Aug 25, 2009)

I think so.  Are we missing anything?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 26, 2009)

They look good to me.


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## Shade (Aug 26, 2009)

The final one!

*Power Tree*
Power trees are vast, slow-moving towers of metallic beams branching from a squat, multilegged base covered in huge, polished plates of crystal that harness the power of sunlight.  Sheens in need of recharging or repair plug into the power tree’s modules to recharge while the tree’s ten spidery manipulator arms do rapid repairs where needed.  These repair routines “heal” damaged sheens at a rate of 1d8 hp per turn.  Power trees can recharge and perform repairs on ten different sheens at a time.

Power trees never travel far from their cysts.  A single power tree can fully recharge a sheen in 1 turn per HD of the sheen being charged and can charge up to 50 HD of sheens per day.  Depleted power trees recharge in 4d6 hours in direct sunlight.

Power trees are heavily armored and have redundant systems to ensure their continuance.  For this reason, these sheens can repair damage inflicted to themselves at triple the normal rate of other sheens.

Power Tree, machine life form:  AC 8 (heavy steel plating); MV 3; HD 36; hp 300; THAC0 15; #AT 10 arms; Dmg 4d6 (x10); SA electrical discharge; SD grade 5 defensive field, mind-affecting spells, spells that affect life force, and psionics; SW Magic susceptibility; SZ G (30’ wide, 50’ tall); ML champion (16); AL N; Str 24, Dex 19, Con 18, Int 17, Wis 15, Cha 0.
SA –Electrical discharge.  Similar to the discharge ability possessed by many sheens, power trees can use this ability ten times per day without depleting energy.  Because of the tremendous energy reserves, power trees can project their electrical discharges up to 300 feet away, causing 10d10 points of damage.  A successful saving throw vs. breath weapon reduces this damage by half.
SD—Grade 5  Defenseive Field.  This field can absorb 300 points of damage before needing to be recharged.  Recharging takes 1 hour for every 50 points of damage absorbed by the field.
SW – Magic Susceptibility.  Most forms of machines are unsuited to resist mage, with the exception of mind-affecting magic.  Sheens make saving throws against all spells with a -3 penalty, and sheens suffer an additional +1 point of damage per die of damage delivered from spells that cause physical harm.  Thus, a 6d6 fireball inflicts 6d6+6 points of damage to a sheen.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 26, 2009)

Hm. This is really the last one ever? I thought there were more of 'em.


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## Shade (Aug 26, 2009)

It appears so.  Echohawk's index shows no additional sheens, nor does DragonDex.

If only they weren't WotC IP...


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## freyar (Aug 26, 2009)

Well, there are always variants...

First off, Gargantuan or Colossal?


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## Shade (Aug 26, 2009)

Both dimensions of its size fall within Gargantuan, so I'd recommend starting there.

This thing will need much larger Str and Con scores that the original has listed.


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## freyar (Aug 26, 2009)

Gargantuan it is.  Compared to the arcanosheen, within the ranges of Str 42-48 and Con 34-40?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 27, 2009)

Oh man, this is going to be a beast. I like it.


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## Shade (Aug 27, 2009)

Added to Homebrews using the high end of freyar's proposed stats.  We can tone it down if desired.   We'll need a better Cha score than 0, since these are intelligent and wise.



> SA –Electrical discharge.  Similar to the discharge ability possessed by many sheens, power trees can use this ability ten times per day without depleting energy.  Because of the tremendous energy reserves, power trees can project their electrical discharges up to 300 feet away, causing 10d10 points of damage.  A successful saving throw vs. breath weapon reduces this damage by half.




Electrical Discharge (Su): Ten times per day, a power tree can release stored energy as a powerful electrical shock. Its next successful slam attack deals an additional 10d10 points of electricity damage. Alternatively, if an attacker strikes the power tree with an unarmed strike or metallic weapon while the power tree contains an excess charge in its carapace, the foe takes 10d10 points of electricity damage.

Alternatively, a power tree can release its electrical discharge in a 300-foot-burst.

Hmmm...I wonder if we should go back and edit all prior sheens with this ability to make it a swift action to "power up" their next strike.  As written, it will require a standard action, making them wait until the next round to use their electrical discharge.  

If we do that, I'd recommend it take a standard action for the burst alternate for the power tree.


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## freyar (Aug 27, 2009)

Cha 16, right between Int and Wis?

I'm fine with making charging up be a swift action.  And standard for the burst.  Sure.  

Do we need to put in that power trees recharge from the sun?


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## Shade (Aug 27, 2009)

Yeah, we should probably make solar-powered an ability, as I could see one trapped underground running out of power.  That might be one of the only ways to stop one of these things!


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## freyar (Aug 27, 2009)

Well, anything immune to electricity could probably do a number to one of them.  Like a great wyrm blue dragon.


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## Shade (Aug 27, 2009)

True, although it does have the potential to deal out 40d6+190 damage with a full attack!


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 27, 2009)

Agreed to the swift action to charge, and I like the writeup for the electrical discharge off of the tree.


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## Shade (Aug 27, 2009)

Updated.



> Sheens in need of recharging or repair plug into the power tree’s modules to recharge while the tree’s ten spidery manipulator arms do rapid repairs where needed.  These repair routines “heal” damaged sheens at a rate of 1d8 hp per turn.  Power trees can recharge and perform repairs on ten different sheens at a time.




Full-round action for the other sheen.  What affect does it have on the power tree's actions (if any)?



> Power trees never travel far from their cysts.  A single power tree can fully recharge a sheen in 1 turn per HD of the sheen being charged and can charge up to 50 HD of sheens per day.  Depleted power trees recharge in 4d6 hours in direct sunlight.




Getting started...

Solar Powered (Ex):  A power tree gains power by absorbing sunlight.  For every hour of exposure to natural sunlight (not a daylight spell or similar magical facimile), a power tree recharges x points of maximum damage for its defensive field and one daily use of its electrical discharge ability.



> Power trees are heavily armored and have redundant systems to ensure their continuance.  For this reason, these sheens can repair damage inflicted to themselves at triple the normal rate of other sheens.




So repairs 1 point of damage in 20 minutes (rather than 1/hour) or 3 points per hour?

Ditto for 2 points per 20 minutes or 6 points back per hour with assistance?


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## demiurge1138 (Aug 28, 2009)

Frankly, with the power level here I'd be willing to give these guys fast healing. I also don't think having other sheens plugged in should affect its actions any.


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## freyar (Aug 28, 2009)

I'll agree to fast healing for these.

Recharging other sheens: In the original text, it sounds like they also augment the rapid repair of the other sheens by using one of their arms.  So if they repair the other sheens, they should lose one slam attack per sheen for that round.

Let's add to solar powered a little:
Solar Powered (Ex): A power tree gains power by absorbing sunlight. For every hour of exposure to natural sunlight (not a daylight spell or similar magical facimile), a power tree recharges x points of maximum damage for its defensive field and one daily use of its electrical discharge ability.  If a power tree sheen is not exposed to natural sunlight for X days, it becomes inert.


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## Shade (Aug 31, 2009)

Updated.

How's this?

Repair Sheen (Ex): A power tree can repair and recharge other sheens. To do so, a sheen need simply to plug into one of the power tree’s modules. This is a full-round action for the sheen seeking repair, but takes no action on the power tree's part. A power tree must sacrifice one of its slam attacks to assist in repairs. A power tree can thus repair up to ten other sheens at a given time. A recipient sheen is repaired of 1d8 points of damage and recharges 1 day's worth of energy for each round it remains connected to the power tree.


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## freyar (Aug 31, 2009)

That looks pretty good!


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 1, 2009)

Agreed. Looks good. Alternately, there could be 1d8 damage a round healed automatically, but if the power tree takes a full round action, the plugged in sheen recieves the equivalent of a Heal spell?


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## Shade (Sep 1, 2009)

Great idea!   How's this?

Alternatively, a power tree can spend a full-round action to swiftly repair a single sheen. This functions as a heal spell (caster level 20th), and recharges one week's worth of charges.  Other sheens attached to the power tree receive no repairs during this round.


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## freyar (Sep 1, 2009)

I like it!


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 1, 2009)

Looks pretty good!


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## freyar (Sep 1, 2009)

I don't think we need any more special abilities, so what AC do we want to aim for?


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## Shade (Sep 1, 2009)

Updated.

Suggested natural armor?  Although the original had a wretched AC of 8, I think the "heavy steel plating" should at least be as good as the render's (+13).

Skills: 5 at 39 ranks
Listen, Search, Spot...

Feats: 13 (6 can be epic)
Awesome Blow, Combat Expertise, Combat Reflexes, Hold the Line, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Trip, Knockdown, Power Attack, Snatch, Stand Still...


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## freyar (Sep 2, 2009)

Go for +20 natural?

Climb, Intimidate, Listen, Spot, maybe Search?

Those feats look good!  Plus Improved Init, Superior Init, and maybe Superior Expertise?


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## Shade (Sep 2, 2009)

Updated.

Organization: Solitary or x (1 plus x other sheens of various types)?

Challenge Rating: 22-23?  It's deadlier than the equal HD mithral golem.

Advancement: 37-48 HD (Gargantuan); 49-108 HD (Colossal)?


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## freyar (Sep 2, 2009)

Crew?  2d12 other sheens?

Sure, CR 23?

Advancement looks good.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 3, 2009)

I don't think it needs Awesome Blow and Imp. Bull's Rush. In fact, with its speed of 10, Imp Bull's Rush is pretty darn useless. Lightning Reflexes and Iron Will might be a good idea to bolster its less-than-impressive saving throws.


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## Shade (Sep 3, 2009)

Fair enough, but let's make that Epic Reflexes and Epic Will.  

Updated.  

Did we ever decide on a fast healing amount?  At this level, I'd recommend at least 10.

A power tree is 30 feet wide and 50 feet tall. It weighs x pounds/tons.


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## freyar (Sep 3, 2009)

Feats look good.

Fast healing 10 is fine, even up to 15 if you want.

100 tons.  It's not nearly as big as the tarrasque (130 tons), but it is made of metal.


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## freyar (Sep 3, 2009)

double post


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 4, 2009)

Fast healing 15. Unlike, say, a vampire or even a troll, this thing isn't going to be able to get away to recover its hp.


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## Shade (Sep 4, 2009)

Updated.

All done?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 4, 2009)

Wait a second. Shouldn't there be a save for half on the burst option of the electrical discharge?


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## Shade (Sep 4, 2009)

Good call.  I'll add it.


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## freyar (Sep 4, 2009)

There are a couple x's in solar powered to be filled in.  Here's my take:

Solar Powered (Ex): A power tree gains power by absorbing sunlight. For every hour of exposure to natural sunlight (not a daylight spell or similar magical facimile), a power tree recharges 30 points of maximum damage for its defensive field and one daily use of its electrical discharge ability. If a power tree sheen is not exposed to natural sunlight for 2 days, it becomes inert.


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## Shade (Sep 4, 2009)

Good catch.  Updated.


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## freyar (Sep 4, 2009)

Looks done to me.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 5, 2009)

Now I think we're good. End of an era, right?


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## Shade (Sep 8, 2009)

Methinks, although someone PMed me that a manikin "template" may be associated with sheens.  I'll investigate...


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## Shade (Sep 8, 2009)

*The Manikin: A New PC “Kit”*

PCs do not choose to take the manikin kit.  It chooses them.

Sometimes humanoids captured by a machine cyst are not immediately liquidated.  Instead, survivors are channeled into the cyst, where the controlling consciousness studies the intriguing puzzle of biological life.  Experiments study the effects of combining biological and sheen life, often showing such combinations to be inimical.  However, some experiments yield fruit, and the resultant humanoid-sheen hybrid is called a manikin.

Functioning manikins are released back into the world, seemingly independent, and free to return to their former business.   Manikins possesses new abilities above and beyond their former class abilities, but all share a common dread:  They all know that at some indeterminate point in the future, a hard-wired compulsion will recall them to the cyst of their modification.

Requirements:  There is no requirement to be chosen for manikin modification.  Manikins can be PCs or NPCs of any class.  Fate (or the DM) places the character in a position to be captured and modified by a nearby machine cyst.  Generally, the modification process takes four weeks and is only 65% successful, but these variables should be modified by the DM.

A newly created manikin appears near where it was first captured with no immediate memory of the previous four weeks.  The manikin is most likely quite surprised to find his lower torso replaced with a sheen chassis (See Distinctive Appearance.)  As re-assimilation into the manikin’s former life continues over the next few weeks, brief memories recall horrible pain, banks of blinding lights, armies of sheens, and miles of subterranean metallic tunnels making up a cyst.  Eventually, the manikin discovers a deep-seated compulsion that, when activated, forces it to return to the cyst.  The manikin knows that at that time, which could be months or years in the future, its accumulated experience will be dissected and downloaded by the merciless consciousness of the machine.

Role:  Manikins unable to hide their modification beneath voluminous robes or other camouflage are greeed with distrust in locales unfamiliar with sheens, and outright fear and murderous hate in locales previously visited with sheen pestilence.  A manikin who finds its former companions (if any), and convinces them of the sanctity of his or her personality is most likely to survive.  Once reunited with fomer companions, the manikin can adventure much as he or she did previously, with access to all fomer abilities (unless chassis mobility hinders, noted under Appearance) and spells, if any.  Plus, manikins have new abilities and defenses they can call upon as well.  Manikins continue to advance in their previous class with no interruption or XP loss.  Psychological or physiological consequences are fore PCs to roleplay.

Distinctive Appearance:  A functioning manikin appears humanoid from the waist up but is all sheen below.  Usually, the sheen chassis attached to the biological component is a simple two-or-three-footed walker.  Sometimes the chassis of a small roller is used instead, and possibly even that of a ground-effect drifter.  Mobility of the manikin depends upon the chassis.  A walker chassis performs similarly to biological legs, while a roller chassis limits mobility in rough terrain but increases maximum speed on level surfaces; ground-effect drifters hover over the ground at a height of 1-10 feet and move over all terrain at a rate of 12.

Two Hit Point Tracks:  The manikin, being half biological and half machine, keeps track of two separate hit point totals.  Each starting hit point track is figured by dividing the number of hit points the character would normally possess at his level by two, rounding up.

Whenever the manikin suffers damage, the damage total is divided by two, then applied to each track.  The fundamental disparity between sheen and biological life shows its hand when odd damage totals are rounded up before being divided and distributed.

The hit points on the biological track heal at the natural rate and are subject to normal healing spells, potions, and similar magic.  The sheen hit point track does not respond to healing magic.  On the other hand, the sheen hit point track benefits from repair subroutines, and thus hit points on this track always automatically regenerate at 1d4 hit points per turn.  Moreover, unless the sheen hit point track is brought to -10, the repair subroutines continue to function.

When one track reaches 0 before the other, the manikin remains conscious as long as the other track has positive hit points.  However, additional damage is subtracted from the non-0 track on a 2-for-1 basis.  When both tracks reach 0, additional damage once again is applied to both tracks, and the manikin loses consciouslness.  When either track reaches -10, the manikin dies.

Grade 1 Defensive Field:  The manikin can activate a Grade 1 defensive field.  The field drains 1 point of damage from every successful attack directed at the manikin, to a maximum of 16 hit points/day.  Once the defensive field has absorbed its limit in a day, it winks out.

Countermand Capabilities:  The biological mind fused with the machine mind slowly gains insight on the workings of sheen control systems.  Over time, manikins gain the ability to affect pure sheens in close proximity.  This ability usually manifests 1d4 months after the manikin is synthesized.

When the manikin encounters sheens, she can attempt to countermand one sheen per round.  Roll 1d20, adding a +1 bonus to the roll for every four points of Intelligence possessed by the manikin.  Reference the result on the Sheen Countermand Table below.  The table gives you the Hit Dice of the most powerful sheen the manikin can countermand, relative to her level.  With a given countermand attempt, the manikin cannot countermand a sheen whose Hit Dice exceed the result on this table.

The “manikin’s level” is equal to the highest PC class of the manikin, no matter whether it is fighter, cleric, thief, or another class.  Multiclass PC manikins use the level of their highest class and add a +1 bonus per additional class.  On a countermand check, a number of HD equal to the manikin’s level +/- a variable are affected (as shown on the table. )  The manikin can distribute affected HD among potential sheen targets as desired.

Countermaned sheens stand idle (treat as stunned) for 10 rounds.  If attacked during this time, the countermand is broken.  Multiple countermands are possible, and countermand effects add together.

Sheen Countermand Table
Int Check / Sheen HD Countermanded
1-3 / Manikin’s level -1
4-6 / Manikin’s level
7-9 / Manikin’s level +1
10-12 / Manikin’s level +2
13-15 / Manikin’s level +3
16-18 / Manikin’s level +4
19-21 / Manikin’s level +5
22+ / Manikin’s level +6


Special Hindrances:  Like sheens, manikins are also susceptible to magic, as noted in the “Magic Susceptibility” sidebar.

Additionally, manikins must suppor their biological systems with food like any other organism, while their sheen chassis requires more specialized energy.  In fact, without monthly recharging, the manikin trundles to a stop, unable to move.  Returning to the cyst for a recharge like a shandard sheen is something a manikin should avoid, lest they desire early recall and deactivation.  Manikins can fully recharge on a monthly basis with a shocking grasp or lightning bolt cast at the 5th level of ability and applied to a special capacitor inlet.  Another method of recharge requires the manikin to stand idle four days out of 28, absorbing ambient sunlight on its sheen chassis.  The sunlight is converted to charge, motive power, and electric life.

Originally appeared in Dragon Magazine #270 (2000).


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 9, 2009)

Hm. I don't like the "two seperate hp tracks" thing. Perhaps we should simplify it to "heals half from cure spells and gains the benefit of the Diehard feat"?


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## freyar (Sep 9, 2009)

Agreed to that!

These make me think of half-golems.  So maybe they become living constructs?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 9, 2009)

Well, sheens are already living constructs, so I figured that was a given.


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## freyar (Sep 9, 2009)

Ehh, they didn't have to change type.


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## Shade (Sep 9, 2009)

Having the base creature become a living construct does handle some of the more complicated issues...

"Living constructs can be affected by spells that target living creatures as well as by those that target constructs. Damage dealt to a living construct can be healed by a cure light wounds spell or a repair light damage spell, for example, and a living construct is vulnerable to a harm spell. However, spells from the healing subschool provide only half effect to a living construct."

"A living construct responds slightly differently from other living creatures when reduced to 0 hit points. A living construct with 0 hit points is disabled, just like a living creature. He can only take a single move action or standard action in each round, but strenuous activity does not risk further injury. When his hit points are less than 0 and greater than -10, a living construct is inert. He is unconscious and helpless, and he cannot perform any actions. However, an inert living construct does not lose additional hit points unless more damage is dealt to him, as with a living creature that is stable."


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## freyar (Sep 9, 2009)

Yes, that's much cleaner!  So let's do that.


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## Shade (Sep 9, 2009)

The countermand sounds an awful lot like turn/rebuke, doesn't it?


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## freyar (Sep 9, 2009)

I thought so too.  Just rip off from the cleric?


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## Shade (Sep 9, 2009)

Probably, with slight modifications.

Added the basics to Homebrews.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 10, 2009)

Agreed to the countermand acting as a rebuke. Should it affect sheens only, or all constructs?


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## freyar (Sep 10, 2009)

I'm going to say sheens only.  They don't seem related enough to all constructs.


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## Shade (Sep 10, 2009)

How's this?

Countermand Sheen (Su):  Upon becoming fused with the machine mind, manikins gain insight on the workings of sheen control systems, allowing them to affect sheen in close proximity.  This functions as the cleric's rebuke undead ability, except it only applies to sheens, and the affected sheens simply stand still rather than cower.   Treat the manikin as a cleric of a level equal to the manikin's total Hit Dice.   Any feats, abilities, or magic that affect rebuke undead also affect countermand sheen.   Thus, the manikin may take the Extra Turning feat to gain additional daily uses of countermand sheen.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 11, 2009)

Looks good to me.


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2009)

Same here.


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## Shade (Sep 11, 2009)

Updated.



> Distinctive Appearance:  A functioning manikin appears humanoid from the waist up but is all sheen below.  Usually, the sheen chassis attached to the biological component is a simple two-or-three-footed walker.  Sometimes the chassis of a small roller is used instead, and possibly even that of a ground-effect drifter.  Mobility of the manikin depends upon the chassis.  A walker chassis performs similarly to biological legs, while a roller chassis limits mobility in rough terrain but increases maximum speed on level surfaces; ground-effect drifters hover over the ground at a height of 1-10 feet and move over all terrain at a rate of 12.




Walker chassis leaves base land speed unchanged?

For the roller chassis, borrow this from maugs?

_Rollers:_ Six great stone cylinders beneath a pyramid of rock, rollers replace the creature's legs and feet. Rollers add 20 feet to the grafted creature's land speed and give it the ability to trample foes, but the grafted creature takes a -8 penalty on Climb, Ride, and Swim skill checks. The grafted creature cannot run.

As a standard action during its turn each round, the grafted creature can move up to its speed and run over opponents at least one size category smaller than itself. This attack deals bludgeoning damage based on the grafted creature's size (see Table A2-3). A trampled opponent can attempt either an attack of opportunity at a -4 penalty or a Relfex save (DC 10 + 1/2 grafted creature's HD + grafted creature's Str modifier) for half damage. Prerequisites: Graft Flesh, baleful polymorph, expeditious retreat, creator must be a maug; Market Price: 10,000 gp.

For the ground-effect drifter chassis, I believe we did something similar for a semi-recent creature.   I'll search for it.



> Additionally, manikins must suppor their biological systems with food like any other organism, while their sheen chassis requires more specialized energy.  In fact, without monthly recharging, the manikin trundles to a stop, unable to move.  Returning to the cyst for a recharge like a shandard sheen is something a manikin should avoid, lest they desire early recall and deactivation.  Manikins can fully recharge on a monthly basis with a shocking grasp or lightning bolt cast at the 5th level of ability and applied to a special capacitor inlet.  Another method of recharge requires the manikin to stand idle four days out of 28, absorbing ambient sunlight on its sheen chassis.  The sunlight is converted to charge, motive power, and electric life.




Modify the following, and add in a solar power component?

Electrically Charged (Ex): Walkers are powered by electricity. A walker normally carries enough charges to function for up to one month (30 charges). After this time, the walker becomes inert until recharged. Walkers generally return to their cysts before this time elapses. 

Each time a walker uses its electrical discharge ability, it expends one charge. 

Within a cyst, a walker may fully recharge after one hour of inactivity. Alternatively, a walker can recharge "in the field" if exposed to an attack that deals electricity damage. An attack that deals electricity damage restores 1 charge for every 5 points of damage the attack would otherwise deal. For example, a walker hit by a lightning bolt gains 3 charges if the attack would have dealt 15 points of damage. A walker gets no saving throw against attacks that deal electricity damage. Regardless of the amount of electricity damage directed at a walker, it cannot exceed its normal maximum of 30 charges.


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2009)

Looking good!

I agree with what you've got for the sheen lower-body.  Walker legs don't do anything, roller legs as reflavored maug rollers.  And you'll find the drifter bit. 

Recharging looks right, with very slow solar powering as an option.  We should mention in the flavor that returning to the cyst to recharge is unwise.  Can't remember -- are regular sheens immune to electricity?  We might want to change the "damage otherwise dealt" language if they are, since I don't think manikins should be immune.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 11, 2009)

Agreed that manikins shouldn't be immune to electricity. Resistant, perhaps.


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## Shade (Sep 11, 2009)

Resistance to electricity 5 seems reasonable.

I found the floating bit (in an unusual place!)...

Gaseous (Ex): A moor hound's insubstantial form grants it several benefits. A moor hound doesn't actually fly, but floats just above the ground. As a result, it is not subject to ground terrain effects, such as ice or a grease spell, but it is subject to winds as if it were a flying creature. It cannot wear armor, manipulate solid objects, or enter water or other liquids. It can pass through small holes or narrow openings--even mere cracks. It also can occupy squares occupied by enemies.

So something like...

Ground-Effect Drifting (Ex):  A manikin with this chassis doesn't actually fly, but floats just above the ground at its land speed. As a result, it is not subject to ground terrain effects, such as ice or a grease spell, but it is subject to winds as if it were a flying creature.


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2009)

Resistance 5 is fine.

That's perfect for the "drifter legs"!


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## Shade (Sep 11, 2009)

Updated.

How does the revised electrically charged look?


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2009)

Looks pretty good, but I wonder if the solar powering shouldn't be a little slower.  2 hours per charge, maybe?


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## Shade (Sep 11, 2009)

Sure, or even slower if you prefer.


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2009)

Well, the original is 4 days per month.  If we take 12 hrs per day of light on average, 2 hours per charge is probably about right.


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## Shade (Sep 11, 2009)

Sounds good.

Should we increase all current and future Hit Dice to d10s, or leave hit points unchanged?


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## freyar (Sep 11, 2009)

Let's leave HD/hp the same.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 12, 2009)

Agreed to leaving hp and HD the same. We should give fortification of some sort.


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## Shade (Sep 14, 2009)

demiurge1138 said:


> We should give fortification of some sort.




I'm OK with that, but it's odd that we didn't give that to any of the full sheens.


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## freyar (Sep 14, 2009)

Isn't the defensive shield enough, actually?  This kind of seems like a template that might get some use with PCs.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 14, 2009)

Fair enough about the sheens not having fortification. Completely forgot.


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## Shade (Sep 14, 2009)

> Manikins possesses new abilities above and beyond their former class abilities, but all share a common dread:  They all know that at some indeterminate point in the future, a hard-wired compulsion will recall them to the cyst of their modification.






> Eventually, the manikin discovers a deep-seated compulsion that, when activated, forces it to return to the cyst.  The manikin knows that at that time, which could be months or years in the future, its accumulated experience will be dissected and downloaded by the merciless consciousness of the machine.




Flavor text, or an actual compulsion ability?   If the latter, perhaps a Will save once per week or month?  If they resist, perhaps sheens start tracking them down to encourage their return?   I could see some fun plot hooks there.


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## freyar (Sep 15, 2009)

Actual ability.  Once per month, DC 10+number of prior successful saves, sheens (at DM's discretion) may start tracking them down?

"Resistance is Futile" (Ex): Each month, a manikin sheen must succeed at a Will save or be compelled to return to the sheen cyst for dissection and disassembly.  On a failed save, the manikin returns to the cyst by the most direct route available.  If the path leads into a dangerous area (through flame, off a cliff, or the like), the may detour around the dangerous area. Other than movement, returning manikins can take no actions other than to defend themselves.

The save DC is 10 plus the number of previous successful saves (that is, DC 10 after 1 month, DC 11 after 2 months, DC 12 after 3 months, etc, assuming successful saves).  At the DM's discretion, a successful save may trigger the cyst to dispatch sheens to return the manikin to the cyst by force.


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## Shade (Sep 15, 2009)

Looks good.  Love the name!


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## freyar (Sep 15, 2009)

And I just chose it because I couldn't figure anything that sounded right!


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## Shade (Sep 15, 2009)

Updated.

Shall we work on a sample creature before determing the CR and LA adjustment?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 16, 2009)

Let's go for a sample. How about, like previous templates, we go for something a little out of the box? Like, say, a troglodyte?


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## freyar (Sep 16, 2009)

Trog sounds good!


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## Shade (Sep 17, 2009)

Here's one with the standar walker chassis...

*Manikin Troglodyte*
Medium Construct (Living, Reptilian)
Hit Dice: 2d8+4 (13 hp)
Initiative: –1
Speed: 30 ft. (6 squares)
Armor Class: 15 (–1 Dex, +6 natural), touch 9, flat-footed 15
Base Attack/Grapple: +1/+1
Attack: Club +1 melee (1d6) or claw +1 melee (1d4) or javelin +1 ranged (1d6)
Full Attack: Club +1 melee (1d6) and claw –1 melee (1d4) and bite –1 melee (1d4); or 2 claws +1 melee (1d4) and bite –1 melee (1d4); or javelin +1 ranged (1d6)
Space/Reach: 5 ft./5 ft.
Special Attacks: Countermand sheen (3/day, +0, 2d6+2, 2nd), stench
Special Qualities: Darkvision 90 ft., defensive field, electrically charged, living construct traits, magic susceptibility, rapid repair, resistance is futile, resistance to electricity 5
Saves: Fort +5, Ref –1, Will +0
Abilities: Str 10, Dex 9, Con 14, Int 8, Wis 10, Cha 10
Skills: Hide +5*, Listen +3
Feats: Multiattack (B), Weapon Focus (javelin)
Environment: Underground
Organization: Clutch (2–5), squad (6–11 plus 1–2 monitor lizards), or band (20–80 plus 20% noncombatants plus 3–13 monitor lizards)
Challenge Rating: 1
Treasure: 50% coins; 50% goods; 50% items
Alignment: Usually chaotic evil
Advancement: By character class
Level Adjustment: +2

Countermand Sheen (Su): Upon becoming fused with the machine mind, manikins gain insight on the workings of sheen control systems, allowing them to affect sheen in close proximity. This functions as the cleric's rebuke undead ability, except it only applies to sheens, and the affected sheens simply stand still rather than cower. Treat the manikin as a cleric of a level equal to the manikin's total Hit Dice. Any feats, abilities, or magic that affect rebuke undead also affect countermand sheen. Thus, the manikin may take the Extra Turning feat to gain additional daily uses of countermand sheen.

Defensive Field (Su): A manikin's sheen chassis automatically generates a physical protective field. This grants the manikin damage reduction 1/- and resistance to acid 1, cold 1, electricity 1, fire 1, and sonic 1. The defensive field can prevent up to 16 points of damage per day.

Electrically Charged (Ex): As part-sheen, manikins are parially powered by electricity. A manikin normally carries enough charges to function for up to one month (30 charges). After this time, the manikin becomes inert until recharged. 

Within a cyst, a manikins may fully recharge after one hour of inactivity. However, returning to a machine cyst guarantees nearly certain doom for a manikin. Alternatively, a manikin can recharge if exposed to electricity damage. An attack that deals electricity damage restores 1 charge for every 5 points of damage the attack deals (or would otherwise deal, if stopped by the manikin's resistance to electricity). For example, a manikin hit by a lightning bolt gains 3 charges if the attack deals 15 points of damage, even though the manikin takes only 10 points of damage after its resistance is applied. Regardless of the amount of electricity damage directed at a manikin, it cannot exceed its normal maximum of 30 charges.

A manikin can also recharge with solar energy. To do so, it must remain motionless and take no actions while exposed to natural sunlight. For every two hours it does so, it recharges 1 charge.

Magic Susceptibility (Ex): Manikins have vulnerability (+50% damage) to damaging magic.

Rapid Repair (Ex): A manikin that rests for 1 full hour repairs 1 point of damage, so long as it has at least 1 hit point. Rapid repair does not allow a manikin to regrow or reattach lost body parts.

A character can assist a manikin's self-repair with a Craft (metalworking) check (DC 15). If the check is successful, the manikin repairs 2 hit points per hour of rest. Providing assistance to the manikin counts as light activity for the assisting character, and a character can assist only one manikin at a time. A manikin cannot assist its own repair.

Resistance is Futile (Ex): Each month, a manikin sheen must succeed on a Will save or be compelled to return to the sheen cyst for dissection and disassembly. On a failed save, the manikin returns to the cyst by the most direct route available. If the path leads into a dangerous area (through flame, off a cliff, or the like), the manikin may detour around the dangerous area. Other than movement, returning manikins can take no actions other than to defend themselves.

The save DC is 10 plus the number of previous successful saves (that is, DC 10 after 1 month, DC 11 after 2 months, DC 12 after 3 months, etc., assuming successful saves). At the DM's discretion, a successful save may trigger the cyst to dispatch sheens to return the manikin to the cyst by force.

Stench (Ex): When a troglodyte is angry or frightened, it secretes an oily, musk-like chemical that nearly every form of animal life finds offensive. All living creatures (except troglodytes) within 30 feet of a troglodyte must succeed on a DC 13 Fortitude save or be sickened for 10 rounds. The save DC is Constitution-based. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same troglodyte’s stench for 24 hours. A delay poison or neutralize poison spell removes the effect from the sickened creature. Creatures with immunity to poison are unaffected, and creatures resistant to poison receive their normal bonus on their saving throws.


Skills: The skin of a troglodyte changes color somewhat, allowing it to blend in with its surroundings like a chameleon and providing a +4 racial bonus on Hide checks. *In rocky or underground settings, this bonus improves to +8.


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## freyar (Sep 17, 2009)

Well, CR is probably +1 or +0, depending on whether you think the defensive field outweighs the magic vulnerability.  I think I'd personally go for +1, but I'm not positive.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 17, 2009)

The defensive aura is nice, but magic vulnerability is seriously mean. I'd say +0, especially considering the half-healing drawback and the "wanders off to die" mechanic.


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## Shade (Sep 18, 2009)

So how about CR +0, LA +1 for standard manikin, CR +0, LA +2 for ground-effect drifter, and CR +1, LA +2 for roller (since it gains trample).

Speaking of trample, we need to assign damage to the trample SA.


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## freyar (Sep 18, 2009)

Well, I'm not sure 1/2 healing and death-recall really affect single-encounter CR, but I see the point about LA.

Looking back at the regular roller, perhaps the roller manikin should get all-terrain travel rather than trample.  Regular rollers don't even get trample.


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## Shade (Sep 18, 2009)

That makes good sense to me.


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 18, 2009)

Agreed to no trample, but all-terrain travel.


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## freyar (Sep 19, 2009)

So then CR +1 for everything and either LA +0 or +1 depending on type?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 20, 2009)

That sounds appropriate to me.


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## Shade (Sep 21, 2009)

Updated.


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## freyar (Sep 21, 2009)

Done?


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## demiurge1138 (Sep 21, 2009)

We very well might be. Everything looks good.


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## Samloyal23 (Apr 22, 2015)

Shade said:


> Good catch.  Updated.




I did not even know my beast had been updated, just found this. I approve.


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