# Has anyone made good bar fight encounters?



## Noumenon (Sep 8, 2010)

The bar fight encounter is a classic of D&D, it's great for blowing off steam and I have a PC who's a waitress by trade so I really want to run one.  But there are some issues...

 I can't steal a bar fight encounter from a module or dungeon delve, because they usually don't have any
 It's nonlethal: that means nonstandard combat and no fireballs, which is tough on the PCs.
 It's spontaneous, so I can't plan CR-appropriate encounter groups and say "the villain recruited them that way."
 It's in town, so I can't use many monsters.
 It's versus regular humans, so at level 4 your normal opposition is outmatched.  (I'm running 3.5; in 4E I could always do like this guy and just make humans with interesting bar-fight related abilities.)
 It's not very dramatic, since the only available motivation is "someone's spoiling for a fight" or gambling losses.  Bar fights don't advance the plot.

How do you make interesting, challenging, level-appropriate, story-advancing bar fights? And can you point me to a PDF or Dungeon magazine I can steal from?


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## Theo R Cwithin (Sep 8, 2010)

- Fights can start for lots of reasons: drunk patron, jealous boyfriend, someone is shortchanged, gang activity, a thief is caught red-handed, assassination/drive-by attempt, duel, law enforcement chasing someone, gamblers' disagreement, accident, practical joke, very poorly thrown dart, etc.

- Terrain can be interesting.  Overturned furniture provides difficult terrain, cover, etc.  Spilled drinks make the floor slippery in spots.  Some drinks are flammable, starting a fire.  Also, there might be surprises: a weak spot in the floor might collapse, the door might blow in during a storm, etc.

- Lighting makes a difference  A dim bar-- or certain parts of it-- is easily plunged into darkness if even one or two lamps are snuffed out.  If there's a storm out, intermittent lightning strikes can randomly well illuminate the place, even if it's dark otherwise.

- Cramped quarters, corners, windows, chimneys, chandeliers, stairs, etc, all make interesting features that limit movement and action, or forced some alternative/creative movement modes.

- Combat doesn't have to be non-lethal, especially when folks start swinging improvised weapons like table legs or broken beer bottles.  And as long as PCs aren't _many_ levels ahead of the rest of the patrons, they can still be threatened if outnumbered-- sepecially if the PCs are trying to fight non-lethally while their foes are using lethal means.

- Certain monsters could find themselves in a bar, depending upon setting or specifics of the bar.  Some patrons or staff might be shapechanges.  The bar likely keeps guard animals or employs bouncers (humanoids, constructs, undead).  Law enforcement in some settings might be monstrous, outsiders, constructs, etc.  A bar with a large aquarium could find itself with a floor full of electric eels or lobsters. Mounted trophy heads could be animated by a necromancer.  A furnace or stove could be powered by a fire elemental, or a cistern might contain a water elemental.  And woe be unto he who releases the toilet otyugh.

_*EDIT:*_ Ihe only (3e) PDF that springs to mind is "Mad Kaiser's The Bare Knuckle Bar Fightin' Guide".


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## Diamond Cross (Sep 8, 2010)

Yep, and it always starts with a drunken Klingon.

That DM was a big Star Trek fan, and whenever we went into a bar there'd be a Klingon in it. For some unknown reason.

Even when we're in a Inn/Pub in the Forgotten Realms.

Ah well.


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## Dausuul (Sep 8, 2010)

My usual way of handling a bar fight is to say, "Okay, you beat holy hell out of some dude. Now what?" I mean, unless the PCs are very low level or the bar is in the Forgotten Realms, there's no other logical outcome. The D&D game is really not well suited to playing out bar fights.

If you want to make a challenging bar fight, have some retired hero get drunk and turn out to be a jerk when he's got a few pints in him. Said hero acts obnoxious toward the PCs. PCs being PCs, fisticuffs will likely ensue.


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## Storminator (Sep 9, 2010)

A good bar fight spread. It starts out with 2 guys in the corner, but one of them swings and misses and hits a 3rd guy, who throws his drink at a fourth guy, that picks up the first guy (because he thought he did it...) and flings him down the bar, spill drinks and food and landing on the card table revealing the hidden cards of the halfling who gets chased by his fellow gamblers into the table of adventurers who start laying the smack until the kitchen catches fire...

And then the orcs overrun the town and the real adventure begins.

PS


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## Lord Captian Tobacco (Sep 9, 2010)

Noumenon said:


> It's spontaneous, so I can't plan CR-appropriate encounter groups and say "the villain recruited them that way."



Why not?

The villian may need some breathing room and this is a great way to slow down the party. If they spend the night in the pokie, the bad guy has that much more of a head-start on his plan. 

The villian may be out to trash the PCs reputation (picking on the little people) and plant a 'ringer' ('Look. They can't even win a fist fight.') or even as a bad guy, kill the patsie and blame it on the PCs. 

All the players need to fall into this trap is a little goading and an over-reaction.


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## megamania (Sep 18, 2010)

The one bar fight I did was in a Darksun campaign.  The PCs were mistaken to be templar snitches and attacked.  

It was designed to get them out of that area (aka run for it) but PCS do what PCs do best- mess with the DM's grand schemes of influence and power.

Anyhow-   battle went as planned until one PC rolled a natural twenty on his "Luck roll" (Wisdom check for something not there but should be... aka a weapon under the bar)

So one player is suddenly with a weapon while the others run down the length of the bar and leap into the wall (hoping the dry rot wood would break) and crash through it.   Soon everyone was on the run but the whole town will never forget the fight.



That is my one and only true bar fight.

What did I do to prepare for it?

Lots of low level NPCs.  On a card I set up 3-4 distinctive personality traits and quotes to throw out there.   From there....  go with the flow.  Think of the most likely outcomes and prepare for them but remember.....   there are always PCs that decide to leap through the wall rather than try the door where a lead to the next adventure is waiting....


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## Noumenon (Sep 18, 2010)

I ended up running it as a real encounter.  The bar is called the Brass Dwarf and we'd established the presence of the actual brass dwarf figurine, so I decided it was related to Castle Whiterock's Clockwork Academy and had some people try to steal it.  One started a regular bar fight as a distraction while the thief failed to sneak and get the statue, then when attention was on the thief the first one stammered out a scroll of summon monster iii and then there was a huge centipede to fight.  Went fine.


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## Merkuri (Sep 18, 2010)

I don't remember why we were in a bar fight, but a few years ago our game went there.  The DM came up with a mechanic where each player would roll at the beginning of their turn to see what sort of random event happened on their turn.  These events included beer getting spilled at your feet, getting hit with a randomly thrown bottle, a nearby drunk missing his target and punching you instead, all had random small in-game effects.  I think there were some that offered bonuses, even though all of those I remembered had penalties.

I seem to recall that some of us actually climbed up into the rafters of the bar to try to avoid these random effects, so we'd take pot-shots at the enemies below from up in the ceiling.  It was a lot of fun, and the random effects helped capture the chaos of a bar fight.


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## caelum (Sep 18, 2010)

Looks like you've already solved your problem, but I think there are a lot of fun terrain and environment elements one can use to make it memorable.  See the article "Tossing Kegs and Smashing Chairs" in Kobold Quarterly #8, which I believe is also available in the Best of KQ issue available free to ENWorld supporters.  It's 3.5 based.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Sep 19, 2010)

Great way to begin a campaign: not "You all meet up in the tavern, when ..." but instead "You're in the middle of a bar fight in the tavern, when ..."


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## Rel (Sep 19, 2010)

Several years ago I kicked off my Eberron campaign with a bar fight.  It was a Halfling run bar in the bad part of town and a rival (Goblin) gang instigated a bar fight that they used as cover to murder the bar owner.

It worked out well because the first few rounds were just fisticuffs and then the PC's began to notice some of the goblins at the back of the bar using knives.  So they had to fight their way over there to see what was going on and engage the Goblins while still being attacked by unarmed drunks.

I closed out the fight by having a Dwarf Guard Captain bust in with some troops to break up the fight.  The PC's (the only ones still standing who were holding weapons dripping with blood) were held for questioning and that's how the party originally got together (with a wink and a nod from the players of course).


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## Saeviomagy (Sep 20, 2010)

I would suggest that

1. bar fights start in packed bars. Use the human rabble minion and fill the bar end-to-end with them.

2. Put lots of terrain powers in: you want the "slide a guy down the bar" power, the "put the huge spitoon on the guy's head" power (possibly even by stomping on a loose floorboard), a falling chandelier, a balcony to hurl people off of and tables to overturn.


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## OnlineDM (Sep 20, 2010)

My first ever encounter in a role playing game was a bar fight.  It was unscripted, too.  Our party met in a bar (cliche, but half of us were first-timers) and encountered some humans arguing with some dwarves.  The humans had been hired by the dwarves to clear kobolds out of the dwarves' mine, and the dwarves were refusing to pay the humans because they said there were still kobolds in the mine.

We intervened, and the dwarves offered us the job.  The humans got upset, so my no-charisma wizard tried to calm things down with diplomacy.  I rolled a natural 1.  The human took a swing at me, my goliath friend jumped into the fray, and the battle was on.

It was a quick and easy fight, but we ran it as an actual encounter and it led to some of the best role playing we had in that campaign.  My wizard used Mage Hand to pick up an unattended tankard of ale and dump in on one of the humans.  My wife's sneaky ranger looted one of the unconscious humans when no one was looking, rejoicing in her clandestine bonus of 5 gold pieces.  This battle also started my wife's character's long-running animosity toward my character, as I Thunderwaved three bad guys but also hit her character in the process. Oops.

In short, bar fights can be fun, especially if the players see it as a chance for some cool role playing in a battle where the outcome is never seriously in doubt.


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## green slime (Sep 20, 2010)

Sure, some of the patrons are low life humans with not a level to their classless mono-existance. All takes is one NPC of decent level to create a more insteresting scene. Doesn't Trevidor the Terrible deserve a relaxing drink with his favourite wench after a hard week's pillaging and plunder across the four counties? 

What about all the other NPC adventurers? Mercenaries? Off-duty guardsmen? 

Trevidor will probably be perfectly happy to avoid the fisticuffs, until someone accidentily knocks his table over, spilling beer onto his breeches....


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## pukunui (Sep 20, 2010)

We had a really awesome bar fight in our 4e game not so long ago. We went into the bar to find some sage guy we needed to pump for info, only he was drunk and didn't want to leave. So the dwarf runepriest picked him up and threw him over his shoulder. The old guy started kicking and squirming and knocked some half-orc chick's drink over. So she started arguing with the dwarf, calling him puny and such. So the dwarf pulled out his axe. And that's when the fighting started. My avenger singled out the half-orc and took her down pretty quickly. One of her cronies got beat up and tried running out the door, but one of the other PCs dramatically leapt out the front window, landing prone in the broken glass but still able to fire off a shot/spell (I forget which) that took out the fleeing guy. Another PC went after a crony who'd gone behind the bar and had started throwing bottles of alcohol at him. The guy lit the bar on fire next, but the PC dramatically leapt over it and brought the whole shelf of alcohol down on the NPC, knocking him out.

It was one of the coolest, most dynamic and most FUN D&D encounters I've ever experienced in any edition (and that's saying a lot, because I'm not a big fan of 4e).


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## Rel (Sep 20, 2010)

green slime said:


> Sure, some of the patrons are low life humans with not a level to their classless mono-existance. All takes is one NPC of decent level to create a more insteresting scene. Doesn't Trevidor the Terrible deserve a relaxing drink with his favourite wench after a hard week's pillaging and plunder across the four counties?
> 
> What about all the other NPC adventurers? Mercenaries? Off-duty guardsmen?




Nothing to do with an actual barfight but this reminds me of how I started a "preview adventure" for my last major campaign:

The PC's are hanging out in a bar and a guy walks in looking to hire a handful of sellswords to embark on a dangerous and epic adventure.  The PC's and several other patrons step forward offering their services.  Everyone is hired...except for the PC's.  Then another guy steps up and says, "If you're still available, some Kobolds have stolen a few of our sheep."  So that's the adventure they went on.

Later when I started the actual campaign it started in the same bar.  This time the PC's were the ones chosen for the epic adventure.  As they walked out of the bar, leaving behind the crestfallen PC's from the preview adventure, the Paladin says, "Watch out for rats."  Because they had a hell of a hard time with some giant rat swarms in the preview adventure. ;


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## Noumenon (Sep 21, 2010)

green slime said:


> Trevidor will probably be perfectly happy to avoid the fisticuffs, until someone accidentily knocks his table over, spilling beer onto his breeches....




Hey, there's an interesting idea.  Make the bar full of important personages and treat them as terrain that you don't want to get knocked into.

Pukunui has good ideas for terrain too -- the breakable front window, the tippable shelf, the pickuppable bottles.


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## pukunui (Sep 21, 2010)

Noumenon said:


> Pukunui has good ideas for terrain too -- the breakable front window, the tippable shelf, the pickuppable bottles.



Yeah, it was definitely one of the most dynamic fights I've ever had.


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## clip (Sep 21, 2010)

In a 4e minion bar fight, can a paladin stop it by just putting Divine Sanction on everybody's butt?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2010)

It all comes dow to a flow chart - 

Fight Starts - does not matter how, it just does.

Did PC start or is part of the fight? 
YES
[*]What is the ALIGNMENT of the foe?
[*]- LG will wait to be hit and defend themselves
[*]- CG will laugh or hit first
[*]- any N will try and stay out of it 
[*]- any E will fight dirty​
What is the CLASS of the foe?
[*]- Fighter will fight to win and use what is available
[*]- Rogue will fight dirty, use what is available but may stab the PC
[*]- Magic User will use magic​
What does the Foe do in the fight?
[*]- Fist/Kick to Body part (create a random table for effect and damage)
[*]- Grapple 
[*]- Fight Dirty (create list of actions; uses chair/bottle as weapon)​
What happens when the fight starts getting out of hand?
[*]- Bets are being made
[*]- Friend(s) steps in
[*]- Two or more fights start breaking out
[*]- The Watch is called (create a chart on when they will show up)
[*]- Spells are released
[*]- FIRE 
[*]- Watch shows up
[*]- Watch starts knocking heads
[*]- Fighters run for the doors, windows
[*]- PCs wake up in a cell
[*]- PCs get chased 
[*]- PCs get out but leave a man behind (oops)
[*]- All PCs get away​


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 23, 2010)

Things to do to make a bar fight go crazy! 


Add girls - all girls fight dirty, they wll pull hair, and IF they get both hands in the hair they will thrown you.  This is a spinning let go move that will throw you into two places, other people or the floor.  Oh, you just lost CHR with two hand fulls of hair!  Don't forget, girls get claw attacks in bar fights!

Halflings - they like to tag team and jump from high places.  How the hell they get to those places does not matter, runt from above!  Halflings double their movement value in a bar fight!  Oh, they use kitchen items as natual weapons!


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## (Psi)SeveredHead (Sep 23, 2010)

DnD is pretty bad for bar fights prior to 4e. There's just too little in the way of defenses.

4e (or *good* low-magic rules) are slightly better, but the characters are too tough. Although I suppose using healing surges after a bar battle might not be too bad, depending on campaign/setting/feel/etc.

Also, the characters won't want to give up their armor. You'd want a setting where characters can not wear armor and not die because of it. *And* in DnD, characters generally carry their (often large) weapons everywhere, unless it's a big city with a heavily-armed guard force. DnD has pretty lame unarmed combat moves.

I've run a fun convenience store brawl (closest I could get to it) using an encounter described in Feng Shui. I've never played that game and only barely understood the rules; I used d20 Modern rules instead. (The class defense bonus helps big time, and the characters are less tough and less likely to wear heavy armor than in 4e.)

Here's a short description:



> With the thugs spread out around the store, there are some cool opportunities here. A running gunfight can take place between the shelves, as Mooks try to avoid pursuers. Shelves can be knocked over, trapping people. The checkout counters can provide cover. The money tray from a cash register can be used as a weapon (the change could be used to trip people up, if enough coins are used). The Deli counter can provide some fun too: large selections of uncut meat can be used as weapons, to distract opponents, etc. The meat slicers are good for cutting up fingers, etc (but be sure to get them over to them, since they are usually stationary) Hooks for meat hanging from the ceiling are good to hang someone from too. In the frozen foods section, frozen meals, meats, etc make excellant bludgeons and/or missle weapons. Go in the back, and fight in the freezer! And of course there are fresh fruits and vegetables to throw around, or if you find the lighter fluid, make an improvised flamethrower. And don't forget the store's employees, and any customers unlucky enough to be trapped in the store when all this goes down




Obviously this is for a modern setting; you'd want to put the same amount of thought into a medieval bar. But it should still give you ideas. Replace deli counter with hot soup, etc. It helps that d20 Modern has some decent unarmed combat rules, as long as said rules involve martial arts. (The basic unarmed combat and the Brawl chain of feats are worse than useless. Just use nonlethal damage like in 3.x and it'll work fine though.)


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## Hadrian the Builder (Sep 25, 2010)

I did a bar fight that my players really enjoyed. It was inspired by the double-cross  in _Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom_. Similar to the opening scene of the movie,  I poisoned the players with an altered version of goodnight tincture and  had the bad guys jump them.


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