# New Boards (Verdict?)



## Mark

Very Nice. Very Clean. Cool new features....

Thank you!


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## Graf

Like very much. Ability to view all subscriptions very cool.

If the the 'no-email' selection actually works will be even more pleased.


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## pogre

Graf said:
			
		

> Like very much. Ability to view all subscriptions very cool.
> 
> If the the 'no-email' selection actually works will be even more pleased.




Noticed the view counters are not working - look at all the 1 views in gen rpg.


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## Nifft

new features = GOOD

tiny new font, forced underlined links = BAD

more analysis as I wake up...

 -- Nifft


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## DM_Matt

New features = Good
Far duller colors, smaller buttons = yuck
The lack of contract in the color scheme makes it far harder to read at a glance.


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## Eternalknight

It's different enough   Does there happen to be a list of all the bew features and what they do?


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## Graf

Not to be confrontational but you can probably adjust the size of the text in your browser by using control-mousewheel (works for I.E. & Opera, not sure about the others).

Having said that, a larger base font would be cool.

I liked the color scheme, new crisper layout. Couldn't really give a technical reason for why though.


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## talinthas

i've been having problems logging in.  the board doesnt seem to want to let me to, and keeps booting me back to the screen where i insert name/pw.  it also loops on the thank you for logging in screen, and then once it finally makes it back to the boards page, asks me to log in again.

i dont know how i managed to stay logged in for once...
oh, and the color scheme is od.  i cant see the icons for bold/italics etc.  black on black doesnt work well =)

edit- oh, and clicking on the enworld logo doesnt take you to the front page of the site anymore.


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## talinthas

also, the boards refresh slower, and aren't in sync with the little notice as to what the most recent thread updated is.  (you know, the thing to the very right on the main board?)


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## Eternalknight

Here is a question:  Some people are now _registered users_ (like myself) while others are _members_.  What is the deal there?  Is there a difference?


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## Gnome Berzerker

With more space near the names now, are we going to be able to have bigger avatars?


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## Nifft

Graf said:
			
		

> Not to be confrontational but you can probably adjust the size of the text in your browser




See, that's not the issue. The issue is that, knowing both my eyesight and current screen size, I have set my browser's default font to be *exactly the font* that I want. It's annoying and harder to read... and it really doesn't add anything to the site.

I'm tempted to write a proxy-filter to strip out all the "<font>" tags.

However, since there's a "Style" tab in the user preferences section, I hope someone will make a simple, not-messing-with-my-text, underline-free version that I can happily use to read my favorite message board.

 -- Nifft

EDIT: didn't like my use of angle brackets in the <font> tag.


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## Graf

OK I see what you mean Nifft. It seems very likely to me that someone will.

It is a problem that the show print-friendly only allows 40 posts per page. Not a crisis, but a bit of a problem.

(Has anybody figured out how to create custom folders for storing subscribed threads yet? I only seem to be create folders for mail....)


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## talinthas

alright, having to ctrl-f5 to refresh every single page every time is starting to get annoying.


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## Tonguez

Nice board hate the colour scheme to sharp too tiny and I want the old font back


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## jdavis

Everything looks huge to me now, the font is much bigger, heck everything is much bigger. Maybe it's my computer but everything is now quite large on my screen, I don't care for the size but everything else is great.


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## Eternalknight

I'm not having any trouble, and quite like the new style.


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## Hand of Evil

Just getting use to it.  

Good thing I had my password wrote down.  

In POST window, the BOLD UNDERLINE Justify Center are very hard to see in default.  Have to check other settings.


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## Brother Shatterstone

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> I'm not having any trouble, and quite like the new style.




Ditto, and I've tried from three diffrent computers, and will try one more (home pc) in the morning.  (Or a little later this morning.)


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## Eternalknight

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Ditto, and I've tried from three diffrent computers, and will try one more (home pc) in the morning.  (Or a little later this morning.)




Three for me too, including a laptop.

Maybe it is the individual's settings?


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## Sir Osis of Liver

Wow cool.


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## Brother Shatterstone

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> Three for me too, including a laptop.
> 
> Maybe it is the individual's settings?



Got to be, I myself have no laptop for me but a couple of shoddy monitors so far, and I can’t imagine having small text on my PC at home. (19-inch monitor)


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## hong

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> Here is a question:  Some people are now _registered users_ (like myself) while others are _members_.  What is the deal there?  Is there a difference?




My guess would be that "members" are the old "Community Supporters", while "registered users" are everyone else. Of course, I could be wrong.


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## hong

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Got to be, I myself have no laptop for me but a couple of shoddy monitors so far, and I can’t imagine having small text on my PC at home. (19-inch monitor)



 The only small text that I can see is the column giving the last post in a thread. Everything else looks to be the same size as before.


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## Eternalknight

hong said:
			
		

> My guess would be that "members" are the old "Community Supporters", while "registered users" are everyone else. Of course, I could be wrong.



 Can't be, as they all still have their custom titles.

_By the way, this quick reply is awesome!_


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## Morrus

Hold your horses, people!

The boards are in a basic functional state right now; there's a lot of work and tweaking to do yet.  Give it a few days, eh?


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## Hand of Evil

Any one use the quick reply yet?


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## Hand of Evil

Any one use the quick reply yet?


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## Hand of Evil

Any one use the quick reply yet?


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## Morrus

hong said:
			
		

> The only small text that I can see is the column giving the last post in a thread. Everything else looks to be the same size as before.




Yeah.  There are no changes there.


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## Eternalknight

Morrus said:
			
		

> Hold your horses, people!
> 
> The boards are in a basic functional state right now; there's a lot of work and tweaking to do yet.  Give it a few days, eh?



 They are still cool


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## Hand of Evil

Well, double posting still works.


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## hong

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> Can't be, as they all still have their custom titles.
> 
> _By the way, this quick reply is awesome!_



 For a "quick" reply, it seems really slow, though.


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## kreynolds

Morrus said:
			
		

> The boards are in a basic functional state right now; there's a lot of work and tweaking to do yet.




Personally, I love the fonts and colors. Don't change a thing.


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## Hand of Evil

Love the different views at the top of the screen!


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## hong

Morrus said:
			
		

> Hold your horses, people!
> 
> The boards are in a basic functional state right now; there's a lot of work and tweaking to do yet.  Give it a few days, eh?



 Just testing....


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## hong

hong said:
			
		

> For a "quick" reply, it seems really slow, though.



 Hmm, seems to be much faster now. Must have been a glitch.


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## Hand of Evil

Love the LINEAR, HYBRID and THREADED views!


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## Eternalknight

hong said:
			
		

> Hmm, seems to be much faster now. Must have been a glitch.




Morrus is probably playing with the boards which may slow things down (no idea if this is true, just making something up).


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## Eternalknight

I just noticed that hovering over the title of a thread brings up the first post - another nice feature.


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## smetzger

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Love the LINEAR, HYBRID and THREADED views!




Wahoo threaded finally.  Although, its still not quite as good as an old fashioned NNTP Server.


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## Morrus

Eternalknight said:
			
		

> I just noticed that hovering over the title of a thread brings up the first post - another nice feature.




There are, literally, dozens of new features.  It'll take us all a while to discover them, I'm sure!

The admin side of things is very nice too; completely revamped and much more powerful.  Makes life easier.


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## Eternalknight

The reputation thingy is interesting too.


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## robaustin

Two issues:

1 - Underlined links are forced on.  I have my browser set for them to be off, can you set it back to browser control for underlined links?

2 - the pink/purple GENERAL graphic is too bright - and since it's used on just about every post unless someone remembers otherwise - it might be a better fit to have it slightly less bright and obtrusive.

Can you tell I'm a UI geek?

--*Rob


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## doktorstick

Two comments: the boards seem on the slow side and the "GENERAL" icon is annoying as all get out.  Can we go back to no icon as the default? 

/ds


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## JoeBlank

It's like Morrus rearranged the furniture, and got some neat new things, while I was asleep.

Same old place, feels like home, but everything old is new again.

I love new toys.


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## orbitalfreak

A note about the small font size.  I've tried changing the text size in IE, with no effect.  Some of the text and/or page breaks outside of posts (top and bottom of page) changed, but it had no effect on text size of posts.  I also have this problem on another message board that uses this vB version.  Just FYI.


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## robaustin

Two issues:

1 - Underlined links are forced on.  I have my browser set for them to be off, can you set it back to browser control for underlined links?

2 - the pink/purple GENERAL graphic is too bright - and since it's used on just about every post unless someone remembers otherwise - it might be a better fit to have it slightly less bright and obtrusive.

Can you tell I'm a UI geek?

--*Rob


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## jmucchiello

*Nitpicks*

The topic list no longer puts up a page list next to the long topics:

(Hivemind) Any silly topic (1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 .. last)

So if its a thread you been half heartedly following you cannot jump into any point in the thread you want without going to the first or last page first.

2) Cannot see Bold, Italic, etc icons on the reply page because they are black on near black.

3) Is there an explanation somewhere for "normal mode" versus "enhanced mode" when replying?

4) posting is very slow.


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## Buttercup

Graf said:
			
		

> Not to be confrontational but you can probably adjust the size of the text in your browser by using control-mousewheel (works for I.E. & Opera, not sure about the others).




Except that feature no longer works.  The board's font is overriding my ability to change it.  

Morrus please!  This font is actually painful for me, it's so small.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari

Ok, I'm liking most of the new toys.  I particularly like the fun new Dragon/Dungeon/AU options for posts.  

However, the general button with its large size and lurid purple coloring is far too eye-catching.  I would kindly request a less obtrusive color or even no icon at all.

In addition, as someone said, the buttons for bold, italic, underline, and all justification functions are virtually invisible against the black background of the pages.  I know they're there because I can scroll over them, but aside from that they're next to invisible.

But overall thanks for giving us a shiney new board!


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## Mirth

Buttercup said:
			
		

> Except that feature no longer works.  The board's font is overriding my ability to change it.
> 
> Morrus please!  This font is actually painful for me, it's so small.




It's really weird to hear people complain about the small font size because for me it has jumped UP about two sizes and everything looks gigantic. It's probably because I'm on a Mac. By pasting the post text into a simpletext program I can see that it is Verdana font at some weird point size between 12 and 14 (13?). I like it better, makes the boards much easier to read. So from me ... Thanks Morrus!

Jay


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## Morrus

The font size is identical.  I don't think I can help you there, I'm afraid. I really can't understand why you would be seeing different. 

Anyway, although I relish the idea of answering all the points above, I'm not going to do any more than repeat that you guys will just have to be patient, the boards are not fully set up and it will take a few days to get everything right.  For the moment, there's little point in listing the things you don't like here, as goodness only knows whether that will still be the case in a few days' time.


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## Brother Shatterstone

*FYI: Another new feature*

If/when you go and edit a previous post theirs an optional box in there for the reason why you edited it.  (hope that helps some people,)


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## Piratecat

Morrus said:
			
		

> For the moment, there's little point in listing the things you don't like here, as goodness only knows whether that will still be the case in a few days' time.




Actually, I'm thinking that you SHOULD list the things you don't like; it will give us somewhere to look as we tweak things. Just don't expect them to be instantaneously changed, please.

And I agree that the "General" icon needs to be more soothing.


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## Morrus

Piratecat said:
			
		

> And I agree that the "General" icon needs to be more soothing.




We're only using a temporary set to try and get things working.  The icons will all be sorted in the next few days.


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## Brother Shatterstone

*small font fix...?*

I think if you go to your "user cp", hit up options, scroll down to the very bottom (*above* your avatar settings) and change the style set to "use forum default". I think the font is a bit bigger but I wasn't having issues before hand so I would need someone else to try it.


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## Mathew_Freeman

My initial reaction is - woah! Cool!

Particularly like the new WYSIWYG interface, makes things a lot easier. Should help with adding pictures and stuff, too.

Me like! Me like muchly!

Me still interested in reputation, though. Perhaps if your reputation drops below a certain level you get banned?


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## Psychotic Dreamer

I really haven't had too much time to look around, but I wanted to just give a general impression so far.  First thing is I really don't like the General icon.  Too bright and just kind of annoying.  In general the boards feel much slower for me.  Just a little faster than dial-up.  I have 256/256 DSL and I am not having any slowness elsewhere.  

I'm sure given time I'll learn to deal with the newness and the slowness.


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## doktorstick

Also, the main "linear" view isn't as clean as it was in the old boards.  While new features are welcomed and may be rough around the edges to start, I would prefer the clear, crisp view from before.

/ds


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## Cthulhu's Librarian

Overall, I like the new boards. I haven't noticed a change in font size, so I can't be of any help to anyone there. I really like the WYSIWYG interface.

A few comments for things to be looked into as you are tweaking over the next few days:

The "Last Post" feature is very slow to pick up on what the actual last post to a thread is.

Several of the message icons are difficult to make out: Hive, OT, ENnies, Movies, Poly, and General is too bright (as several people have mentioned). 

Posting time is VERY slow, especially "Quick Reply" which is slower than a regular reply. 

Again, I think the improvement is much better overall, and any little issues I'm sure you will fix. Thanks Morrus!


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## Cthulhu's Librarian

Edit-Double post


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## Velmont

The new forum is a bit slow, but what I don't like, it is dissapearing post. I post a message on a thread, and it is successfully done (a dot appear on the envellop icon and the last post was posted by me), but when I look at the thread, I can't see it. I do some modificatiopn to a message and it dissapear. in other words, it's just like the thread forget what have happen since X minutes.

And the forums don't refresh well. I got new message in a thread I just look (and their is no new message), or it doesn't tell I just post in the thread (no dots on the envellop or my name as last post)


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## Buttercup

Morrus said:
			
		

> The font size is identical.  I don't think I can help you there, I'm afraid. I really can't understand why you would be seeing different.




Let me see if I can explain it more clearly then.  There is a way you can code your text so that the user can override whatever font size and color you use with their own preferences, as set in their browser.  This new version of the board does not allow that.  Your default font size has always been too small for me (Verdana 8 point) so I have my browser set it larger.  Now I'm stuck with your default, which I can barely see.  I really have to push my face up to the monitor to read threads now.

I hope this can be fixed, because if it can't, I won't be able to keep coming here, and that would make me sad.  But I just can't use it the way it is.


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## Piratecat

Buttercup said:
			
		

> I hope this can be fixed, because if it can't, I won't be able to keep coming here, and that would make me sad.  But I just can't use it the way it is.




I'm sure we'll be able to fix it, Buttercup, even if I don't currently know how.  

I have also found the spot where we turn off underlining for links, but I'm not going to touch it for now - too much stuff I could screw up. I haven't yet found the default font info, but I have no doubt that it's in the same place.  

I've turned off the reputation system; we won't be using that.

I think I have also found the setting that refreshes the boards, mainly because it's temporarily off. Never fear; we're keeping it off for the moment in order to minimize bandwidth loads. We'll turn it back on later.


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## hong

Buttercup said:
			
		

> Let me see if I can explain it more clearly then.  There is a way you can code your text so that the user can override whatever font size and color you use with their own preferences, as set in their browser.  This new version of the board does not allow that.  Your default font size has always been too small for me (Verdana 8 point) so I have my browser set it larger.  Now I'm stuck with your default, which I can barely see.  I really have to push my face up to the monitor to read threads now.
> 
> I hope this can be fixed, because if it can't, I won't be able to keep coming here, and that would make me sad.  But I just can't use it the way it is.




Digging around in the HTML, the relevant formatting for posts would seem to be given by this bit of CSS code:



		Code:
	

td, th, p, li {
	font: 10pt verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
}


So the text is 10 pt Verdana if you have a Windows box, and probably 10 pt Geneva on a Mac. Which type of computer are you using? It's possible that 10-point text means different things on Macs and PCs.

I don't have any problems with the font size, but then I've got a PC.


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## Eridanis

THree things I've already noticed that I like:

1. Quick Reply is very cool & time-saving.

2. The emails you get from subscribed threads now show the text of the recent post. No need to go view it if it's just a one-line response or something.

3. If you hover your mouse over a thread title, it gives you the text of the first message. No more haaving to click on a thread to see if it would interest you - just read the first post! What a great idea!


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## robaustin

How about links being underlined?  Is there a way for you guys to turn that off?  My browser is definitely set for them to be off, yet they are all underlined.  Drives me batty seeing a zillion things underlined on a page!

--*Rob


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## Buttercup

hong said:
			
		

> Digging around in the HTML, the relevant formatting for posts would seem to be given by this bit of CSS code:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Code:
> 
> 
> td, th, p, li {
> font: 10pt verdana, geneva, lucida, 'lucida grande', arial, helvetica, sans-serif;
> }
> 
> So the text is 10 pt Verdana if you have a Windows box, and probably 10 pt Geneva on a Mac. Which type of computer are you using? It's possible that 10-point text means different things on Macs and PCs.
> 
> I don't have any problems with the font size, but then I've got a PC.




I was going to go back and edit my post, but several people had replied, so I'll just answer here.

There are two ways to change the font size in IE.  An easy one, and a slightly more annoying one.  The easy one just requires that one click View, Text Size and then select from the list.  This is the one that no longer works.  The more annoying one, however, *does* work.  In that option, one clicks Tools, Internet Options, Accessibility, and then checks whatever boxes are appropriate.  It's annoying because I'll have to change it back whenever I leave EN World.  But it does still work, so I can now actually read the text here.  Woohoo!  Oddly, the font I have chosen to use is Verdana so you wouldn't expect it to change, but it's about 1/3 larger.  Actually a tad too big, but it will do for now.

Hong, I've got a Windows box, running XP, with all the latest versions of everything, since we just upgraded a few weeks ago.


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## Piratecat

I know exactly where this setting is specified; for that matter, I know where the underlined links setting is, too. Unfortunately, I don't know diddly about html, so I'll let Thomas make the actual change. Just have faith that we'll alter the settings on this as soon as we know that we're not screwing something else up worse.


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## Velmont

Deleted post


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## uv23

I haven't had a chance to explore many of the new feature but I feel like my eyes are being assaulted by all of the clutter. The boards are very very ugly right now: icons and useless information ("viewing"??) everywhere, and those hideous purple "general" icons. In fact, I'd say that the UI clutter is what has kept me from exploring too deep so far.


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## Maraxle

The boards no longer seem to refresh on my system, unless I hit CTRL+F5.  That's really annoying.  Also, those message icons in general are pretty hideous.  Not only that, but I can't see the buttons for bold, italics, etc.  Overall, I give the "upgrade" a huge thumbs down.


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## LightPhoenix

Haven't played with the boards much, but I think it would be _really_ great if the default tag thingee was blank (ie, no image), and that general was a seperate one.  Or even better, if there was a way users could turn them off via the control panel, like avatars.


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## hong

The new boards have been up for about 8 hours, and people are already complaining. You'd think this was EN World 3.5E or something.


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## Mathew_Freeman

Just noticed something. When hong quoted that long string of code, it's stretched this thread off the side of the screen, so that I have to keep scrolling left and right to read all the messages.

Now, whilst this of course happened previously, it only affected the post in question. Now it's affecting the whole thread. Figured it's something that can be sorted out, or looked at.


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## Zogg

Well hong, there are similarities. There wasn't really anything WRONG with ENworld 3.0...but now they've gone and added a bunch of unnecessary bells and whistles that really amount to nothing but clutter. This board now needs to be cleaned up and streamlined, much like 3.5!


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## doghead

I had a couple of comments but most of them have been mentioned (purple icons (Edit: whoops, didn't read the "Posticons, Please read before posting" - sorry.), clutter, seems slower (the extra features? - I'd vote for speed over features). 

But what really concerns me is that the posts now exit stage right and I have to scroll across (and back to read them). It didn't happen last time I logged on, but that was using the old url. I'm hoping that its just a glitch cos its a real concern. (Edit: Ah, its Hongs fault ) I'm going to check out some other threads so I'll let you know.

Edit: Ignore me doing this. Ignore me doing this.


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## Brother Shatterstone

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> I think if you go to your "user cp", hit up options, scroll down to the very bottom (*above* your avatar settings) and change the style set to "use forum default". I think the font is a bit bigger but I wasn't having issues before hand so I would need someone else to try it.




Did this help anyone..?


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## Brother Shatterstone

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Did this help anyone..?




Never mind, it didn't have the same effect at home that it did at work...  Must have just been perceived change.  Sorry guys and gals.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian

Maraxle said:
			
		

> The boards no longer seem to refresh on my system, unless I hit CTRL+F5.




Same here. This wasn't happening earlier (or I didn't notice it), but now I don't get any new threads or replys unless I hit CTRL+F5.


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## Emiricol

All my complaints have been addressed (except that the boards are now HORRIBLY SLOW on my broadband-connected computer).  Hopefully that'll get taken care of.  Also, I can't actually *type* anything in the Quick Reply box. The reply box thing may be an issue with Mozilla, the browser I use.

As to font size, it is IMHO better than before.  However, in Mozilla, I just hit Ctrl and plus or minus to change the text size I see on a page.  Neet-o!


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## Piratecat

Emiricol, you have to click in someone's post on the white button between the "edit" and "reply" boxes before you can use Quick Reply.

The board slowness will disappear; there are some server-intensive processes running in the background, that don't usually happen very often.


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## Emiricol

Piratecat said:
			
		

> Emiricol, you have to click in someone's post on the white button between the "edit" and "reply" boxes before you can use Quick Reply.
> 
> The board slowness will disappear; there are some server-intensive processes running in the background, that don't usually happen very often.




LOL!  Okay, thanks for pointing that out, PC.  Also, glad to hear the speed will improve.

I'm still finding features I like as I go along


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## reapersaurus

My biggest problem with the new boards (other than the posticons) is that Hyperlinks are not being underlined for me.

I don't see it as an option in CP. (if it's there, please point me in the right direction? Thanks)
Hyperlinks being underlined is a standard across the entire internet.
If they've been turned off, please put it back like normal.


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## Psychotic Dreamer

I have found that the boards will not keep my login when I close my browser.  I checked the box saying to remember my login, but as soon as I close my browser and come back, I have to login again.  A bit of a pain.  None of the other sites that use cookies to store logins are having troubles on my machine.

The board has speed up and is running at almost normal speed.  Still not sure how I like the new feel of the boards, but I'm asjusting.


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## robaustin

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> My biggest problem with the new boards (other than the posticons) is that Hyperlinks are not being underlined for me.
> 
> I don't see it as an option in CP. (if it's there, please point me in the right direction? Thanks)
> Hyperlinks being underlined is a standard across the entire internet.
> If they've been turned off, please put it back like normal.




Actually, it's not a standard, since most web browsers let you turn off underlined hyperlinks.  As a personal preference, I don't like underlined hyperlinks.  However, you can set it so that the browser default is used, rather then forcing it to underline or not.  I think this is what needs to be done.

--*Rob


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## Morrus

reapersaurus said:
			
		

> My biggest problem with the new boards (other than the posticons) is that Hyperlinks are not being underlined for me.




I turned them off because everyone started compaining about the "new" underlining of hyperlinks.  You're right in that they've always been like that and hadn't changed.

*Shrug*


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## Psychotic Dreamer

Morrus said:
			
		

> I turned them off because everyone started compaining about the "new" underlining of hyperlinks.  You're right in that they've always been like that and hadn't changed.
> 
> *Shrug*




I'm not sure why everyone complained about it either.  Since now it's almost impossible to tell (without moving the mouse over) what is a link in someones .sig now.  Strange.


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## trancejeremy

Gah. I feel like Captain Kirk did in the first Star Trek movie, when he went aboard the newly refurbished Enterprise and had no idea where anything was.

Things look vaguely familiar, but different at the same time. My head hurts.


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## Cthulhu's Librarian

Psychotic Dreamer said:
			
		

> I'm not sure why everyone complained about it either. Since now it's almost impossible to tell (without moving the mouse over) what is a link in someones .sig now. Strange.




I agree. I'd prefer them to be turned back on, if possible, like they used to be.


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## uv23

Underlining does not need to be turned back on. What needs to be turned on is different font colors for links and visited links, just as it was done before.


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## Emiricol

Cthulhu's Librarian said:
			
		

> I agree. I'd prefer them to be turned back on, if possible, like they used to be.




I'd prefer underlining ON.  If they don't like it, let 'em eat cake!  (Or change their browser settings.)


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## robaustin

Emiricol said:
			
		

> I'd prefer underlining ON.  If they don't like it, let 'em eat cake!  (Or change their browser settings.)




Actually, the point is - it is entirely the USER's option if you program your web page properly.

I do agree - links should be a slightly different color, as should visited links.  Should be able to put that in quite easily.

--*Rob


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## Morrus

How about that?


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## Zenon

Morrus said:
			
		

> How about that?




Better! That really BRIGHT yellow nearly burned my eyes out! 

Keep up the good work, Morrus - and ignore those idjuts who think running this place is a snap. The new boards look great!


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## uv23

Morrus said:
			
		

> How about that?



[ash]Grooovy![/ash]


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## Psionicist

I have a bad feeling about this. This is a beta version of vBulletin 3.0. It is called beta because the developers themselves know there are bugs and possibly exploits in the software. You should never install beta software unless you are 100% sure what you are doing, that is, in this case 1) You know PHP and want to hack around with the software to find bugs before someone else does or 2) You are very well aware of at least basic administrative precautions, because beta software is always full of bugs, and people exploit software full of bugs just because they can and because the information is freely available how to do so on the Internet.

I would switch back to 2.x.x and wait for at least vBulletin 3.0.0 RC1 (RC is for release candidate, that is when the developers have fixed most bugs and are ready to call the release stable, that is the step right after vBulletin BETA but right before vBulletin 3.0.0). Why? Soon someone will find a major security hole in the software, and as soon the vBulletin people knows about it they will post information about it on their website. Unless Morrus then shuts down his forum and upgrade the software, anyone can wreck havoc on ENWorld. That's the problem with beta software. You ALWAYS HAVE TO install the latest beta when it becomes available, or you are in big trouble.

Regarding the features. The more features = the slower software. The more users = the slower server. The more features = the messier code = the more bandwidth wasted. Final verdict = vBulletin 3.0.0 will cost Morrus lots of money, it will be a slow experience for you and me, and there will probably be lots of bugs and trouble.

The short version: All these "nifty features" are a nightmare if you know something about programming and how Internet works. 

The D&D anthology: The only book you really need to play Dungeons & Dragons is the SRD. In forum software terms, the SRD is equivalent of reading a thread and being able to post a reply on a webpage. Nothing fancy. If you want a cute forum that is enough for most people, compare it with PHB. If you want features like "search", "smilies", "signatures"… Throw in some splatbooks…

Your typical gamer will probably bring some 5-6 books to his gaming buddies when he plays Dungeons & Dragons. 5-6 books is your typical forum without that many features, like www.phpbb.com (say 5-6 books), www.invisionboards.com (say 5-6 books) or www.punbb.org (about 2 books, very fast and light-weight).

Your typical gamer can carry his 5-6 books in a back-pack. VBulletin on the other hand is the kind of gamer who drives his car 100 yards to his friend’s house so he can bring all his 45 lbs worth of books to the house. Slow and horrible experience for the rest of the gamers.


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## Psionicist

DM Magic said:
			
		

> Although I always enjoy Psionicist's opinions on computers (mostly because it seems like he know's some stuff), they always come across as... well... not humble.
> 
> 
> 
> I want to add that, although that may be the case, I'm sure Psionicist is just trying to help. Hopefully no one jumps down his throat for his suggestions.
> 
> Maybe Morrus knows about all these issues and has decided to give it the "Good To Go" anyway?
> 
> Who knows what kinds of tricks The Man has up his sleeve!




Sorry. 

I always write WAY too analytical when I discuss computers. I mean no harm. 



> We realize that there are many people who just want to use the software we write, and have no interest in learning technical details. For most people, a computer is merely a tool, a means to an end; they have more important things to do and lives to live. We acknowledge that, and don't expect everyone to take an interest in the technical matters that fascinate us. Nevertheless, our style of answering questions is tuned for people who do take such an interest and are willing to be active participants in problem-solving. That's not going to change. Nor should it; if it did, we would become less effective at the things we do best.


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## orbitalfreak

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Never mind, it didn't have the same effect at home that it did at work... Must have just been perceived change. Sorry guys and gals.



 OK, now I've got a real wierd thing going on. (not a complaint, just throwing stuff on the "bugs pile" )

In the message I've quoted (#80), the text size is normal for what I have my browser set to, but the rest of the messages are still forum-default small. 

Also, only the text that is in the actual post is the larger, "normal" size; the sig / member info / everything else in this message is small. The part of his post that includes a quote is also large.

In message #79 (same user), he quotes another post made by himself. The quoted portion here is enlarged, but the _message_ is small.

The enlarged font is also present in post #57, again by Brother Shatterstone. Weird... all enlarged posts by the same user...

*edit: The portion of the text I quoted in my post is also large, while the part that I wrote is small.


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## Apok

They seem a tad sluggish to me as well.


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## Nifft

Morrus said:
			
		

> I turned them off because everyone started compaining about the "new" underlining of hyperlinks.  You're right in that they've always been like that and hadn't changed.




Previously, font (including font size) and hyperlink underline status were left to the browser's defaults. That allowed people to customize their local environment. Now it seems that the server is trying to specify _everything_, and of course you can't please everyone with a single look & feel.

Is there perhaps a way to simply *specify less*? Let the browsers do more of the work, like in the old version?

Anyway, I'm sure you'll work it out.

Thanks again for the great site, and please don't think of it as complaining -- think of it as perfectionism from devoted fans.

 -- Nifft


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## Hand of Evil

this is a quick reply


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## Brother Shatterstone

orbitalfreak said:
			
		

> The enlarged font is also present in post #57, again by Brother Shatterstone. Weird... all enlarged posts by the same user...



That is weird as I'm using the default on everything...  Verdana, Size 2.  The only thing I have changed is the WYSIWYG which I'm now using.


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## Brother Shatterstone

Psionicist said:
			
		

> I have a bad feeling about this. This is a beta version of vBulletin 3.0. It is called beta because the developers themselves know there are bugs and possibly exploits in the software. You should never install beta software unless you are 100% sure what you are doing, that is, in this case 1) You know PHP and want to hack around with the software to find bugs before someone else does or 2) You are very well aware of at least basic administrative precautions, because beta software is always full of bugs, and people exploit software full of bugs just because they can and because the information is freely available how to do so on the Internet.




Hmmmm, that sounds like XP.


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## Shalimar

I am generally for change, but there is a limit, and to me, the limit is changes that actually IMPROVE things that are not currently working.  The old boards worked, they worked very well.  These new boards don't, just look at all the problems that are being had.  What has actually been gained by doing this versus what problems have actually been created?

Its a better idea to go with what ACTUALLY WORKS


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## Morrus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I am generally for change, but there is a limit, and to me, the limit is changes that actually IMPROVE things that are not currently working. The old boards worked, they worked very well. These new boards don't, just look at all the problems that are being had. What has actually been gained by doing this versus what problems have actually been created?
> 
> Its a better idea to go with what ACTUALLY WORKS




It's exactly the same as every time the boards have been upgraded; teething problems are to be expected and the norm, not a disaster of biblical proportions.  By your logic, we'd still be using Eric's first incarnation of the boards, and I'm sure that none of us want that! 

These boards will work just fine once properly configured, and when we upgrade again in a year or two, you'll be saying the same thing about these boards that you're currently saying about the old boards.


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## Brother Shatterstone

> I am generally for change, but there is a limit, and to me, the limit is changes that actually IMPROVE things that are not currently working. The old boards worked, they worked very well. These new boards don't, just look at all the problems that are being had. What has actually been gained by doing this versus what problems have actually been created?
> 
> Its a better idea to go with what ACTUALLY WORKS



Ouch that seems to be pretty negative...  It hasn’t even been up for 24 hours so why the sudden rush to judgement?


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## Tsyr

New Features: Yay.

New look: DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE! Give me my old ENWorld back!


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## Shalimar

Brother Shatterstone said:
			
		

> Ouch that seems to be pretty negative... It hasn’t even been up for 24 hours so why the sudden rush to judgement?




Not being able to tell if there are new posts because the main forum page doesn't refresh is a semi-big deal.  I could live with pretty much everything else, but not being able to tell when there are new posts sort of defeats the purpuse of the boards, how can you discuss when you can't see what others are saying.


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## Shalimar

Tsyr said:
			
		

> New Features: Yay.
> 
> New look: DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE DIE! Give me my old ENWorld back!



 I totally agree with you Tsyr, I liked the old look much better, but I can be forced to ignore the new look if they get everything working right.


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## Morrus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> Not being able to tell if there are new posts because the main forum page doesn't refresh is a semi-big deal. I could live with pretty much everything else, but not being able to tell when there are new posts sort of defeats the purpuse of the boards, how can you discuss when you can't see what others are saying.




Bleh.  We've had far worse problems in times past, and we were using the old boards then.  The problem you describe will be fixed, just like every problem we've ever had has been fixed.  Be an optimist!


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## Morrus

Shalimar said:
			
		

> I totally agree with you Tsyr, I liked the old look much better, but I can be forced to ignore the new look if they get everything working right.




Well, the look is far more dependent on the styles the administrator creates than the software itself.  Again, as I've repeated many times today, there will be many changes over the coming days.


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## doghead

Give it a couple of days. Let the ENWorld team sort out the wrinkles they know of, then let em have it ... er I mean, let em know what you think. You might find you have become accustomed to alot of the changes.


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## Morrus

Yay!  That's the spirit!


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## Psychotic Dreamer

I agree.  Give it sometime.  I was quite against the changes at first, but they are begining to grow on me.  After I deleted all my cookies relating to ENWorld it solved my login problem, the boards are fast now and seem to be working quite well.


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## reapersaurus

Yay!
The hyperlinks are visable, AND I can now see what threads I've clicked on before!

Those were the two largest problems for me, and they've already been fixed.

Great!

The next biggest issue is of course the posticons...

edit: and what's with the huge width of the name/avatar column?

and some of the column widths when viewing all the threads in a forum could stand some adjusting, too.


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## DM2

The new boards are awesome Morris!  Every time I log on something that seemed bad when I first saw them has been 'fixed', and the new features (like the quick reply I'm using right now) rule!

Great work.

DM2


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## d20Dwarf

Weird


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## Lola

It looks nice, but my pages aren't refreshing, and it won't do the auto-login (and I've already tried deleting my cookies). Any word on what's going on with that?


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## The Sigil

My verbosity and I are quite happy that the "stay logged in time" is now perpetual instead of ~3 minutes.  No more losing longwinded posts. 

--The Sigil


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## Nifft

*Morrus*

I think some of the font issues may be due to using odd-sized fonts, or due to different browsers having different fonts installed. For example, Helvetica 9pt may be larger on the screen -- or simply more legible at the same size -- than Ariel 9 pt.

Is it possible to have a "theme" that doesn't specify font size?

I'll write the CSS if that's needed...

Thanks, -- Nifft


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## Mark

With those new posticons, these new boards just get better and more easy to use!


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## Greybar

Just a quick thank you - I love the Quick Reply concept, even if the implementation is currently having a wee bit of trouble. -john


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## Psion

I think I have my login problem fixed, but my posts are slow; it took me many retries to get a response up without running into the 30 second timeout. I hope this is something that the board wizards can "tune up."


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## hellbender

Instead of posting the number of posts, why not a ranking system, like:

[font=verdana, tahoma, arial, helvetica]Sword Pupil (Minimum Posts: 1) 
Recruit (Minimum Posts: 5) 
Sentry (Minimum Posts: 10) 
Fighter (Minimum Posts: 20) 
Soldier (Minimum Posts: 30) 
Warrior (Minimum Posts: 45) 
Veteran (Minimum Posts: 60) 
Swordsman (Minimum Posts: 75) 
Fencer (Minimum Posts: 90) 
Hero (Minimum Posts: 100) 
Myrmidon (Minimum Posts: 120) 
Swashbuckler (Minimum Posts: 150) 
Mercenary (Minimum Posts: 200) 
Swordmaster (Minimum Posts: 250) 
Lieutenant (Minimum Posts: 300) 
Champion (Minimum Posts: 350) 
Dragoon (Minimum Posts: 400) 
Cavalier (Minimum Posts: 450) 
Knight (Minimum Posts: 500) 
Grand Knight (Minimum Posts: 550) 
Master Knight (Minimum Posts: 600) 
Gladiator (Minimum Posts: 650)
Master Gladiator (Minimum Posts: 700)
Demon Slayer (Minimum Posts: 800) 
Greater Demon Slayer (Minimum Posts: 900) 
Dragon Slayer (Minimum Posts: 1000) 
Greater Dragon Slayer (Minimum Posts: 1250)
Underlord (Minimum Posts: 1500) 
Overlord (Minimum Posts: 1750)
Master of War! (Minimum Posts: 2000)


Moderators are 
Legendary Heros[/font]

     The numbers are a bit low and this is just a suggestion. Instead of using the actual post count, it might discourage frivolous posts eventually.


hellbender


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## Psionicist

Hellbender: Have to quote Umbran here...



> Also, think about it. It's a board of geeks. You give them a numeric ranking system, what do you expect they'd do with it?


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## hellbender

Psionicist said:
			
		

> Hellbender: Have to quote Umbran here...





  Now my post count becomes higher in rebuttal! Sheesh! It was just a system I saw on other message boards that received a number of thumbs up reviews from users in general. I actually have bigger issues in life than sweating my ENWorld post count.

h


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