# Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay



## Sanzuo (Jul 14, 2009)

​

I thought about resurrecting the old Warhammer thread but decided to start a new one instead.


What is Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay (WFRP)?

WFRP is a roleplaying game originally released in 1986 to go along with Games Workshop's famous Warhammer tabletop miniatures war game.

 To be brief; it has since passed from publisher to publisher over the years.  Currently it has been picked up by Fantasy Flight Games after Black Industries shut down their roleplaying lines.

 
Why is this game awesome?

 Look at the front cover of the book:






 See those badasses right there?  You're not one of them.  Chances are you will start out the game as the medieval equivalent of a fast food employee or ticked-tearer at the movie theater.  Among the beginning careers you can start out as are; Boatman, Bone Picker, Camp Follower, Charcoal-Burner, Fisherman, Miner, Peasant, Rat Catcher, Servant and Valet.  You could also possibly start out as a semi-badass, like a Mercenary or a Shieldbreaker.

 The point is; if you are playing the game right you will roll completely randomly to determine your starting career.  That is because this game emphasizes working with what fate hands you.  Back in the gritty days of the Warhammer universe a person didn't really choose what they were born into, it was their lot in life.  That's part of what makes this game so awesome, you have to work with what you get.

 But just because your character was born into the life of a fisherman doesn't mean he has to stay there.  That's another reason this game is awesome – you can potentially BECOME a badass like the characters on the cover.  In WFRP even a lowly fisherman can become a Captain in an army if he survives long enough.

 That fact that you start off a lowly weakling – to me – is a breath of fresh air from games like D&D where your character is already a monster-smiting hero at level 1.  You've got to earn your stripes in this game.  Don't get me wrong, I like D&D but sometimes it's a little too epic for me.  Sometimes it's the simple challenges that have the most rewards – like getting to eat today.


Careers? Levels?

 There are no levels in WFRP.  What there are, are careers.  Careers are literally professions that all characters in the game take to make their way in the world.  A character's starting career represents what he did before he decided to become an adventurer.

 The way advancement works is a character gets experience which is basically points to buy stats, skills and talents.  Mechanically a career is like a template with available stat-ups, skills and talents that you may buy with experience to make your character better at something.  Once you've bought all a careers available options then you may not buy anymore and it is time to advance to your NEXT career.  A character's general capability can be assessed by how many careers he's advanced through.

 Your starting career is almost filled out completely, representing that you've spent most of your life getting good at it.  There are also advanced careers which you cannot start a new character in but can advance to later.  These careers are generally much more powerful.  There are a total of 100 careers in the core book.  The Career Compendium has a total of 220 careers from all the different sources of the game.


What's combat like?

 In D&D combat is usually a solution to most problems.  In WFRP, if you've gotten into combat then usually something has gone wrong.

 Combat is hard and gritty.  Permanent damage to characters like limb loss and insanity is common.  Survivability can be enhanced by wearing armor on top of armor and being a hearty bastard, but in the long run it's usually better to avoid being hit in the first place.  When conflict is inevitable clever tactics usually bring the most reward; ambushes, surprise attacks and superior numbers.


Is there magic?

 Oh there's magic all right.  It is incredibly powerful and dangerous.  Setting-wise most people are very distrustful of magic-users – likening it to witchcraft and demonic arts.  The Empire strictly controls all wizards.  It is possible to start the game as an Apprentice Wizard.  If you've been lucky enough to roll this starting career than you can look forward a short terrifying life – or less likely a long and terrifying one.


What's the setting like?

 Oh man, the setting is pretty huge.  There is so much Warhammer material out there that I couldn't possibly cover all of the main points in a single post.  The best source for setting material is probably the tabletop game itself.  WFRP strangely doesn't have as much of the setting covered as the tabletop game I find.  I reckon there are a lot of people on this forum who have played a lot of Warhammer and are much more knowledgeable about the details than me.

 Basically the main setting is the Empire.  The Empire is a lot like medieval Germany in structure and flavor.  The Empire consists of humans who have had an alliance with Dwarves for over 2000 years.  There are elves as well, but they are largely xenophobic and stick to their trees.  Halflings populate the Empire as well as second-class citizens.

 The terrain of the Empire consists of mostly dense forests.  All manner of horrible, horrible things can lie hidden in these forests, so the citizens of the Empire stick together in dense pockets of civilization and if they must travel, they do so on the roads.

 Aside from typical baddies like ratmen, trolls and undead, the threat of Chaos is always present in the minds of the citizenry.  Chaos is a demonic power that constantly leaks into the world and can affect the minds and bodies of the vulnerable people who fall victim to it.  It can also bring with it demons, which are bad.


Can you play WFRP on Maptools?

Apparently you can!  Emirikol gives us the lowdown:



Emirikol said:


> The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Maptool Project
> This project's purpose is to encourage play of WFRP on Maptool by making it quick and easy for a GM to get a game started with little or now start-up work.
> 
> Here's how you do it:
> ...




Where can I pick up this awesome game?

Fantasy Flight Games is currently the publisher.  However to my knowledge the core book along with many others are OUT OF PRINT.  Though I guess you can buy them in PDF form from the website.  If you're looking for a new game to try I highly recommend this one.

If you want to see an example of how a campaign plays out you can read my Story Hour Thread about it.

Also pawsplay wrote up my favorite summary of a beginning level game:



			
				pawsplay said:
			
		

> A typical campaign goes like this. The players roll up characters and you end up with a halfling baker, a human rat-catcher, and a dwarven soldier. They meet in a rat-infested tavern and see a poster advertising a reward for the capture of an infamous bandit. Gathering up a handful of used weapons, some bedrolls, and the services of an untrustworthy wilderness guide, they go in search of the bandit. After a battle in which they slay several bandit guards, during which the dwarven soldier loses his foot, permanently, they corner the bandit. He turns out to be a demonic cultist and immobilizes the halfling with a spell. Then the rat-catcher hits the cultist in the stomach with an axe-handle, and then beats the helpless cultist to death. They search for treasure. Finding what appears to be a magical amulet and a glowing sword, they bury them under a rock and vow never to speak of them again. They find some pocket change in the cultist's pocket, sever his head, and return to town to collect the reward. The local magistrate rewards them. On the way back to the tavern, a fanatical witch hunter who was also trailing the bandit corners the halfling and tries to extort the reward from him. Later, they set a trap for the witch hunter and kill him. Then they find out he is an initiate of a local religious order and have to flee the town or risk arrest and execution. On the way out of town, bandits surround them. The dwarf mutters, "Do you know who we are?" The bandits don't, and attack. The one-legged dwarf dies. The baker and the rat-catcher use that opportunity to flee and hide.
> 
> The baker and rat-catcher earn enough XP for one advance. When they complete their careers, the baker thinks he might like to be an outlaw, while the rat-catcher starts looking at good ways to enter the witch hunter career.





Links



			
				Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> You may want to check the following: Strike to Stun


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## Sanzuo (Jul 14, 2009)

I'll start this off by asking other experienced players of this game how you generally handle economy.  There seems to be no real advice in the core book about how quickly players should be amassing material possessions.  This can affect the game if the players aren't earning enough for their trappings for their next careers or if they have so much money that it basically isn't a problem for them.

The rule I've been making is copy-pasted from my story hour thread:



			
				Sanzuo said:
			
		

> When the players loot a pile of hand weapons and a few chain mail shirts, that adds up to quite a bit of money going by the prices set in the book. Logically I figure a vendor would buy those items from the PCs for about half of what they're worth if he figures he can sell them.
> 
> But as one of my players put it; if the vendor lowballs the PCs too much (either he doesn't have the money to pay what the PCs want or they're simply not worth that much to him) what's stopping the PCs from hanging on to all that crap and becoming vendors themselves, selling it to other adventurers who are just crapping money as well?
> 
> I figured I would use the middle ground to keep the game moving along. Roleplaying the players setting up their own "Used Armour Shoppe" might be realistic but it isn't terribly exciting.


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## coyote6 (Jul 14, 2009)

What percentage of value to pawnbrokers usually pay? I'd be kind of surprised if it was as high as half. You have to figure the merchant isn't actually going to be able to sell used (bloodstained, chipped, dented, rent-open-by-axes) stuff at full price, right?

I mean, in D&D, yeah, sure, whatever. But for a grim world of perilous adventure? Suck it up, rat catcher! Maybe some day you'll be able to _aspire_ to a glorious career as a pawnbroker; but for now, back to the trauma-soaked world of "adventure", and be happy you've got a few coins in your pocket and not some chaos-tainted extra appendage.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 15, 2009)

You may want to check the following: Strike to Stun


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## Maggan (Jul 15, 2009)

Sanzuo said:


> I'll start this off by asking other experienced players of this game how you generally handle economy.




I work on the assumption that the economics presented in WFRP (any edition) don't work at all. Based on that assumption, I handwave most of the dealings with money and gold.

I'm toying with the idea of introducing a wealth system similar to d20 Modern (and James Bond 007 and maybe Call of Cthulhu to some extent), where you don't have cash per se but instead a rating that shows what you have available.

/M


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## kitsune9 (Jul 15, 2009)

Sanzuo said:


> ​
> 
> I thought about resurrecting the old Warhammer thread but decided to start a new one instead.
> 
> ...




Thanks Sanzuo. I will chime in with Sanzuo on this being a pretty cool game. It is a grim and gritty world which is pretty cool. I ran a WFRP 1st edition for about a year before abandoning the group, but I do have a ton of 2nd edition books and really, really enjoy the system.

Should it replace your D&D game? No, as I don't believe in any one game being better than the other. However, if you want to try something different but still be in fantasy, this would always be my first recommendation for a different fantasy game.


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## Piratecat (Jul 15, 2009)

I love WFRP. It's horror meets gritty D&D, and it's ridiculously fun.


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## jknevitt (Jul 15, 2009)

WFRP is probably my all-time favorite fantasy game. I have a deep and abiding love for D&D as a game, but for the whole system-setting-flavor-atmosphere, WFRP wins for me hands down.

At the moment I'm trying very, very, very, hard not to ditch my Eberron game (1 session in) and start a WFRP game. It's a very difficult thing to do.


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## Obryn (Jul 15, 2009)

WFRP2e is one of my favorite RPGs of all time.  It's intensely good, relatively rules-light, and a nice step away from "normal" fantasy.

Really, about the only thing I have an issue with is the armor system. 

-O


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## Nebulous (Jul 15, 2009)

I really, really really really wonder what Fantasy Flight is going to do with WFRP3e?  2e was hardly broken by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't even know people were clamoring for a revision.


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## Agamon (Jul 15, 2009)

Nebulous said:


> I really, really really really wonder what Fantasy Flight is going to do with WFRP3e?  2e was hardly broken by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't even know people were clamoring for a revision.




Yeah, I'm pretty happy with my 2e books that I haven't really had a chance to use yet.  Someday soon, hopefully.  Cool game, for sure.


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## Sanzuo (Jul 15, 2009)

Hand of Evil said:


> You may want to check the following: Strike to Stun




Wow, thanks.  This website is awesome.



			
				Nebulous said:
			
		

> I really, really really really wonder what Fantasy Flight is going to do with WFRP3e? 2e was hardly broken by any stretch of the imagination. I didn't even know people were clamoring for a revision.




It would be nice if the FF guys took on some of the Green Ronin guys since they're the ones who wrote the current version - which is awesome.

My complaints about the current edition?  Hmmm... let me see.  I don't have many.  The rules that aren't fleshed out can easily be called on by the GM.

EDIT: Oh crap.



			
				Strike to Stun said:
			
		

> Rumors, rumors!
> 
> Thursday, July 9th, 2009
> 
> ...





Source


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## Obryn (Jul 15, 2009)

I think there's another thread somewhere about that WFRP3e description.

I'd hold off before panicking, but would not be surprised if FFG put out an excellent - but very different - WFRP game.  They need to sell core books to turn a profit, and they can't sell new core books to a market who already has them.

As for me, I love both WFRP2e and D&D 4e, but just like any game, I'd want to evaluate any WFRP3e on its own merits.  If I don't like it, I already have almost everything produced for 2e, so I'm not particularly worried. 

-O


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## Aus_Snow (Jul 15, 2009)

I think it's about time I buy myself the 2nd edition. So no, not moving quickly on this one.  Sometimes I pounce on a game when it first comes out (or before, even!) and sometimes it's like this. Oh well.

The 1st ed. stuff still holds a special place on the bookshelf, but from most of what I've heard, 2nd is strictly better. And it sure looks pretty. Well, 'pretty' anyway.


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## Nebulous (Jul 15, 2009)

I haven't actually had the pleasure to play WFRP 2e yet, but it is such a beautifully laid out game and the mechanics seem top notch.  If i wasn't having such a good time with 4e, and i was deperate to branch out and try something new, i'd be all over Warhammer.  I'm just sort of concerned that FF will put out a different but equally awesome game and i'll feel compelled to buy that too and not use it much.


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## Sanzuo (Jul 15, 2009)

Probably my favorite thing about WFRP is the career system.  I just like the idea that what you start out as has no bearing on your potential - that a servant could become a knight or a camp follower could become a master wizard.

That's something I wish they had in Dark Heresy.  When you pick/roll a career in DH it seems a lot more restrictive.  Although I love DH's setting and combat (gunfire) rules.

If they at least kept the career system I think I would be happy.  My greatest fear is if they revamp the careers so you automatically start out as a "high level" career.  EI, Level 1 Warrior Priest of Sigmar.  Starting out as a ditchdigger is the cornerstone of the game in my opinion.


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## sjmiller (Jul 15, 2009)

OK, slightly goofy question. I know back in the old days of Warhammer Fantasy RPG there was a career or background where you could be a former Blood Bowl player. I imagine that is not in there any more, but it would be nice if it were.


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## Agamon (Jul 15, 2009)

sjmiller said:


> OK, slightly goofy question. I know back in the old days of Warhammer Fantasy RPG there was a career or background where you could be a former Blood Bowl player. I imagine that is not in there any more, but it would be nice if it were.




Wow, why don't I remember that (been a long time since I played 1e)?  No, it's not there now, but it would be awesome.


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## Sanzuo (Jul 15, 2009)

Agamon said:


> Wow, why don't I remember that (been a long time since I played 1e)?  No, it's not there now, but it would be awesome.




Now that I think of it - it doesn't sound like it would be too hard to come up with your own careers.  It's not like you have to worry about it being too "balanced."


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## NiTessine (Jul 17, 2009)

sjmiller said:


> OK, slightly goofy question. I know back in the old days of Warhammer Fantasy RPG there was a career or background where you could be a former Blood Bowl player. I imagine that is not in there any more, but it would be nice if it were.




I don't remember ever seeing a career like that for WFRP, but the Ex-Blood Bowl Player was presented as a player character for _Warhammer Quest_ in an issue of _Citadel Journal_. Issue #16, I think, though I may be wrong.


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## Fabio Andrea Rossi (Jul 20, 2009)

I am intrigued in WFRPG, but I have one question.

The one thing I like most about DD4E is the possibility to play a wide range of classes, each with its own quirk and some mechanical peculiarities, most of which play very differently from a tactical standpoint.

I do understand that mechanical diversity is not WFRPG main horse and that careers work very differently respect to classes, but what I'd like to know is if the careers have some differences between them.

I mean: is the only different a bunch of different skills and access to skills and talents or are there different "powers" (or talent or whatever) making for instance a troll slayer different from a witch hunter?

Back then I liked a lor Warhammer quest, in that boardgame the characters were very different.

Is some of this aspect reflected in this game?

100 careers seem like a lot to leave space to really different abilities.

Some wisdom from you guys would prove invaluable in making the hard choiche whether to try this fascinating setting


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## Obryn (Jul 21, 2009)

Professions are packages of ability score increases, skills, and talents (basically feats).  They aren't mechanically unique in such a way that you'd necessarily know what Profession someone is by how they perform in play, but the packages are quite different, IMO.  

They're different enough that different PCs will be fairly distinct by the end of their first careers.  Some talents are fairly rare, too, and only available in one or two advanced careers.

Also, the careers are divided into Basic and Advanced.  Advanced careers require you to complete an earlier career in the path first.  Basic careers can be hopped into for an expenditure of XP, no matter where you're starting from.

-O


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## Emirikol (Jul 21, 2009)

*a couple thoughts*

A couple thoughts on the comments so far:
*  Economy.  I have a couple rules that keep things under control:
1.  All crap found on opponents is considered "poor" quality unless otherwise specified.  
2.  Poor equipment may not be sold, but may be kept (if you really want to)
3.  Listed equipment may be sold at 30% +5% per degree of haggle success.

Character diversity:
After playing D&D for 28 years, I've switched to WFRP.  I'm very pleased with the fact that the game allows you to define your character under the rules.  You're not told what you do. You're not told what your combat actions are.  You define them when you play.

If you're interested in the COMPLETE character career list with notable entries and exits they are here:
http://www.fantasyflightgames.com/ffg_content/wfrp/media/WFRP_CComp_WebEnhance.pdf

I've been running WFRP on Maptool.  If you're interested, you can download the house rules and base campaign here:  RPTools.net Forums • View topic - WFRP Macro Set (in campaign file) for your enjoyment

Attached is a screenshot from our MAPTOOL (rptools.net) game.


Jay H


..


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## wolff96 (Jul 21, 2009)

I've been running what I laughingly refer to as a "Heroic" version of WFRPG for a while now with my current group.  I call it that because I hand out money and experience a bit more freely than suggested in the default rules.  I mean, the Priest of Sigmar can almost afford a suit of plate mail!

So far, most of the group is intact; the wannabe-Witch Hunter is nearly out of Fate points, but almost all of the 'really epic' stories center around his character.   

The players found a riverboat recently, sold the cargo, and promptly lost a huge chunk of their newfound wealth paying off a crime lord to stop framing two members of the party.  (He was a bit annoyed with them for killing one of his men..)

The dice were favorable to the players back at the start -- we've got a Dwarven (Giant)Slayer, an Elven (Journeyman) Wizard, a human priest of Sigmar about to go into Warrior Priest, and a Protagonist who is working his way up to Witch Hunter.  There's one other member of the party and he's probably my favorite -- he started as a Burgher.  Since no one else in the party could talk to save their own lives, he started working towards 'face' skills.  

Despite having roughly the combat skills of an old mule, he's saved the party on numerous occasions, handles all their trading and buying, manages the group's destinations, and is currently learning to sail their new boat.  Unlike the other players, who all have destinations in mind, he wanders from career to career organically, taking whatever seems appropriate at the time.  It makes for a GREAT character.  As long as he stays out of the line of fire, anyway.  

I love the system.  I love the grit.  And I love the fact that I don't need maps, grid-paper, or anything else to run it.  Just a couple of character sheets and my imagination.  I had trouble doing that in 3E, let alone 4E!


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## vonmolkew (Jul 21, 2009)

The original adventures GW put out might have been the most fun I've ever had with my clothes on.....
Seriously, it is fast-paced, a little scary, a lot crazy and affords you a TON of role-playing chances.  You can learn to play in about 10 minutes and make a character in about 20.  And for anyone who hasn't played a dwarf scholar with no dexterity to speak of and an affinity for bombs and blunderbusses, you haven't lived!


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## kitsune9 (Jul 21, 2009)

wolff96 said:


> I've been running what I laughingly refer to as a "Heroic" version of WFRPG for a while now with my current group.  I call it that because I hand out money and experience a bit more freely than suggested in the default rules.  I mean, the Priest of Sigmar can almost afford a suit of plate mail!
> 
> So far, most of the group is intact; the wannabe-Witch Hunter is nearly out of Fate points, but almost all of the 'really epic' stories center around his character.
> 
> ...




I was thinking a different version of "Heroic" WFRP in more staying power for the PC's such as just doubling their starting wounds. I would keep everything else though such as madness, disease, and all the other crunchy goodness that makes WFRP such an awesome game.

I know that economy is mentioned here as being a problem, probably would have to look at that as well.


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## Donovan Morningfire (Jul 21, 2009)

kitsune9 said:


> I was thinking a different version of "Heroic" WFRP in more staying power for the PC's such as just doubling their starting wounds. I would keep everything else though such as madness, disease, and all the other crunchy goodness that makes WFRP such an awesome game.



Well, PC survivability is helped immensely when your GM can't make attack rolls for crap 90& of the time.  And the few times he does hit, it's either a pitiful damage roll or the target manages to dodge or parry the attack.

GM: "The lead Orc scores a mighty hit..."
Elf PC: "Finally hit something other than air."
GM: "Shush you.  He bellows fiercely as his choppa crashes into your side for... 6 points of damage."
Me: "So between my Toughness bonus and my armor, I take... no damage, right?"
GM: "Blasted Bretonnians and their gorram armor."
Dwarf PC: "Hey, at least Sir Clanksalot couldn't parry or dodge this one."
GM: "Oh shut up and just kill the pathetic blighter already!"

The above is from one of our last few game sessions before the GM's work schedule changed to prevent him from being able to game with us on a regular basis.  Which is a shame because the campaign he was running was quite a lot of fun, as he was willing to step out of the "GrimDark" mindset and allow some of the PCs to be a bit happier than what the norm might suggest.

Wolff96,
I can agree whole-heartedly on the "face" of the party being a vital component of a group.  Ours was an Entertainer, and I think she transitioned into Rogue.  While she wasn't much of a combatant (was a very good knife thrower as well as superb dancer), she proved a great boon on helping us to avoid quite a few scrapes by virtue of her silver tongue, even with some members of the Imperial nobility.  Of course, she was quite happy to let the Knight Errant and Troll Slayer take center stage when butts needed to be whupped.  And she certainly did keep things lively with a few of her antics.


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## Sanzuo (Jul 22, 2009)

Fabio Andrea Rossi said:


> The one thing I like most about DD4E is the possibility to play a wide range of classes, each with its own quirk and some mechanical peculiarities, most of which play very differently from a tactical standpoint.
> 
> I do understand that mechanical diversity is not WFRPG main horse and that careers work very differently respect to classes, but what I'd like to know is if the careers have some differences between them.
> 
> ...




The best way I can answer your question is that this is not D&D4e.  The latest version of D&D is very "gameist" and puts a LOT of focus on the mechanical aspects of the game - which is fine!  Super tactical highly magical battles is a part of that system and I certainly have fun playing it.

WFRP in its current state is not a "gameist" system in my opinion.  The focus is on the setting and the atmosphere.  The combat rules are very simple and fast - but you shouldn't be having frequent sessions that are nothing but combat, either!

But if you're looking for distinct roles than you could say that WFRP has many more roles than D&D.  With so many careers you can end up with a lot of unique combinations!

Much like D&D4e has four basic roles - Striker, Defender, Controller, Leader - You can think of WFRP as having roles as well, they're just not all centered around fighting: Face (Negotiator), Healer (Physician or Divine), Fighter (Person who fights), Sneak (Sneaky person), Spellcaster, Ect!

If you made a party in WFRP full of nothing but people who fight then you're going to have a very boring game of nothing but battle after battle.  When it actually gets to the point that you need to talk to someone or you run into a superior force (because you've been fighting all the time, your enemies aren't going to "balance" your encounters for you) then you're going to be in trouble.


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## CapnZapp (Jul 22, 2009)

Fabio Andrea Rossi said:


> I am intrigued in WFRPG, but I have one question.
> 
> The one thing I like most about DD4E is the possibility to play a wide range of classes, each with its own quirk and some mechanical peculiarities, most of which play very differently from a tactical standpoint.



Then honestly WFRP is not the game for you. 

WFRP is much more a traditional rpg, where the thought goes if you want to enter combat, you should play a warrior of some sort (mercenary, soldier, etc)

All other kinds of people really don't want to enter combat, or so is the expectation. 

WFRP is still a game about unlikely heroes, so beggars and servants and burgomeisters still need to fight greenskins and mutants. But they have neither the training nor the equipment to do it. This is supposed to be a good thing.

4th Edition D&D is very much a different game. It's completely something else. Its basic assumption is game equals combat, and it is served well by following this assumtion to its logical end, i.e. making all classes equally combat-capable.

A graverobber or courtier in WFRP does not have any hidden combat capabilities, they do not get any compensation for not knowing which end of the stick to point at the enemy. Simply put, a Watchman or Trollslayer is strictly superior to have around when the swords are drawn - just like in real life. Their "role" is to handle enemies; to keep their friends from dying.

With experience, most WFRP characters will probably move to lessen this discrepancy, of course, but that is another discussion.


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## Emirikol (Jul 22, 2009)

*Wfrp*

CZ has some points.  The beauty of having a WORLD and not just mechanics is that the players have it easy when they look at THEME, not just mechanics (although you could do that too).  When you look at the picture and read the description of a career, that's what gives YOU, THE PLAYER, the inspiration to do whatever it is that you do.

Sure, there are skills and talents that vary as well as particular characteristic benefits to each one, but that's based on the main rules.

WFRP is not a game of exceptions.  It has rules that you can count on.  Then it's up to the PLAYERS on how to be creative within those guidelines.

Also, since the game isn't a "miniatures wargame" it's about the players solving problems using whatever means necessary.  You get xp for meeting goals, not for counting up how many goblins you killed.  If you need to rescue the princess, you get the same x.p. whether you burned the building down to kill the monsters and ran out with her hair on fire or if you snuck in and not a shot was fired.

...and there are firearms.  They're not a major highlight, but it definately feels very midieval that way 

jh




...


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## kitsune9 (Jul 22, 2009)

Donovan Morningfire said:


> Well, PC survivability is helped immensely when your GM can't make attack rolls for crap 90& of the time.  And the few times he does hit, it's either a pitiful damage roll or the target manages to dodge or parry the attack.
> 
> GM: "The lead Orc scores a mighty hit..."
> Elf PC: "Finally hit something other than air."
> ...




I ran a WFRP 1e campaign with a similar thing. One of my players had a dwarf who maxed out toughness and armor, and the only way to really even start to hurt him was through Ulric's Fury. Any of the other players got their characters churned into butter if Ulric's Fury was rolled on them. One player I think went through five or six characters in the overall campaign.


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## wolff96 (Jul 23, 2009)

kitsune9 said:


> I ran a WFRP 1e campaign with a similar thing. One of my players had a dwarf who maxed out toughness and armor, and the only way to really even start to hurt him was through Ulric's Fury. Any of the other players got their characters churned into butter if Ulric's Fury was rolled on them. One player I think went through five or six characters in the overall campaign.




I'm lucky -- my dwarf is a Slayer.  He only wears armor on his arms and legs (pants and what we call Vambraces) because a hat would interfere with his crest and a chest-piece would obscure his tattoos...

The one that worries me is the Sigmarite.  I think his Toughness is around 40 now and he'll soon be buying plate armor...  That makes him one tough hombre.  Fortunately, he can't roll percentiles to save his life.  

The wannabe witch-hunter is a pretty tough customer, really, but he has some horrendous luck.  The party face -- going into Master Thief these days, after all his underworld contact in Altdorf -- is getting respectable with his crossbow.  The Elf Wizard?  Yeah, she nearly got killed in an alley once while being 'discouraged' from an investigation.  After Toughness, I think she took 7 wounds from a dagger.  And at the time, I think she had around 10 wounds total...

--------------------------------

There's one catch to all of this, though...  up until now, they've faced nothing more dangerous than a minor demon and some cultists.  And *that* nearly killed them.  Now, however, they're on an expedition into the wilderness, off to locate a lost dwarfhame and recover some relics that are rumored to lie there.

Which means greenskins, skaven, natural hazards...  They're about to really see the Old World with the gloves off for the first time.  

MMmmm, this is going to be fun.


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## C_M2008 (Jul 23, 2009)

The mechanics and gameplay sound very intriguing, but it sounds like the gameplay is tied very tightly to the warhammer fluff/world. Which is unfortunate as I'm not really a fan, I'd rather homebrew.

So WFRP players I'll put this out to you, how easy is it to take the "warhammer" out of the game and simply make it a dark and gritty fantasy game??


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## kitsune9 (Jul 23, 2009)

wolff96 said:


> I'm lucky -- my dwarf is a Slayer.  He only wears armor on his arms and legs (pants and what we call Vambraces) because a hat would interfere with his crest and a chest-piece would obscure his tattoos...
> 
> The one that worries me is the Sigmarite.  I think his Toughness is around 40 now and he'll soon be buying plate armor...  That makes him one tough hombre.  Fortunately, he can't roll percentiles to save his life.
> 
> ...




See, now that I'm reading these posts about WFRP, I want to run something NOW. I have yet to run a 2e game, but ran a ton of 1e games back in the day.


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## Obryn (Jul 23, 2009)

C_M2008 said:


> The mechanics and gameplay sound very intriguing, but it sounds like the gameplay is tied very tightly to the warhammer fluff/world. Which is unfortunate as I'm not really a fan, I'd rather homebrew.
> 
> So WFRP players I'll put this out to you, how easy is it to take the "warhammer" out of the game and simply make it a dark and gritty fantasy game??



I know it's been done, but I wouldn't want to try it.

While the basic system can work for everything, if you don't have an expectation of rat catchers, flagellants, zealots, etc., a lot of stuff makes less sense.  Also, the whole system of divine magic is very world-centric.

It can be done - it's a solid system - but it wouldn't be as easy as changing the setting for a D&D game.

-O


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## Emirikol (Jul 23, 2009)

BTW, for those of you who want all the free downloads from the old Black Industries site (including all those scenarios), here's the Internet Way-Back-Machine archives.  It has all the PDF's, maps, etc.

Enjoy!
Black Industries

Yourwelcome


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## Emirikol (Jul 23, 2009)

C_M2008 said:


> So WFRP players I'll put this out to you, how easy is it to take the "warhammer" out of the game and simply make it a dark and gritty fantasy game??





*I'd say this would actually be pretty easy and fun to convert. * There's nothing that inter-related between the roleplay and the crunch that says that you couldn't do it any other way.  I've done it for WFRP and CONAN before (and we've all seen the Lankhmar supplement for D&D right?)

I started in the warhammer world using the D&D 4e system..now that wasn't all that interesting (no 4e for me 

Anyways, for conversions:
It runs just like 3E D&D except your damage is reduced by armor and toughness rather than just an AC hit.  The SKILLS and TALENTS (i.e. Feats) are just like 3E D&D.

Careers are essentially generic.  What world doesn't have rat catchers, priests, wizards, halflings, elves, dwarves, zealots of religion, and whatnot.  Although chaos is mentioned, nothing is bound to it.  Witch hunters and others could just as well be "evil hunters" instead.  Personally, I think NOT having the hedge wizards hunted would be a lot more fun than the puritanical limitations of life in the Empire.

If you don't want a chaos effect on spells, don't have it.  It doesn't break the game not to use the charts or "chaos" although I prefer the wildness of magic in this system.  It would be fun to homebrew a world just for this!

Spells are broken into generic colleges just like in D&D of old.  One color for every in the rainbow.

Priests aren't dependent on their gods and the names could be quickly changed.

GUNS are easy enough to add or remove.  Personally, I'd leave them in a homebrew game simply because black powder makes the world darker, evil, and prone to guns jamming at the wrong moment 

jh


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## Sanzuo (Jul 23, 2009)

C_M2008 said:


> So WFRP players I'll put this out to you, how easy is it to take the "warhammer" out of the game and simply make it a dark and gritty fantasy game??




I don't really see what's wrong with the setting, as you can take the game to other places besides the Empire - but if you wanted to make it a generic gritty fantasy game I don't see the mechanics really getting in the way.

There are a few cereer restrictions based on the universe (such as dwarves and halflings not being able to use magic) and you could simply remove those restrictions if you wanted.

I have a friend who is more or less incapable of gamemastering established settings, he always has to create his own fantasy universe.  I could see a more generic setting with the WFRP rules taking place in a nameless savage wilderness somewhere.

...Like a fallout-esque fantasy post-apocolyptic wasteland.  Imagine WFRP after chaos defeats the empire.


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## kitsune9 (Jul 23, 2009)

C_M2008 said:


> The mechanics and gameplay sound very intriguing, but it sounds like the gameplay is tied very tightly to the warhammer fluff/world. Which is unfortunate as I'm not really a fan, I'd rather homebrew.
> 
> So WFRP players I'll put this out to you, how easy is it to take the "warhammer" out of the game and simply make it a dark and gritty fantasy game??




If you stick with just the basic rulebook, you're fine--not too much to tweak to make it your own kind of homebrew, but the other supplements tend to get very setting specific in that you'll have more work to do to alter them to suit your tastes. 

Altogether, try the setting too! It really is an awesome setting of a dark and grim times.


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## Rel (Jul 23, 2009)

C_M2008 said:


> The mechanics and gameplay sound very intriguing, but it sounds like the gameplay is tied very tightly to the warhammer fluff/world. Which is unfortunate as I'm not really a fan, I'd rather homebrew.
> 
> So WFRP players I'll put this out to you, how easy is it to take the "warhammer" out of the game and simply make it a dark and gritty fantasy game??




The only WFRP2 game I ever ran was a Pirates of the Caribbean game and it worked completely fine setting the game outside the Old World.  The only real tweak I had to make was making guns more prevalent.


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## coyote6 (Jul 23, 2009)

From my hazy memories, the only things in the core rules that seems a bit setting-specific are some of the magic mechanics. But if your setting allows for magic to be dangerous, insanity-inducing, and so forth, then even that should be easy to adapt. 

As long as the setting fits the tone of the game (which is fairly well supported by the mechanics, I think), then you ought to be okay. The more the setting diverges, the more things you'll have to trip you up -- but that's true for every game, really.


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## C_M2008 (Jul 24, 2009)

Well I think I'm sold on it, is it easy to teach to new players? If not might have some holdouts despite running other games.


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## Iron Sky (Jul 24, 2009)

It's pretty simple.

Say what you want to do.  Roll a d100.  If it's under your stat +/- modifiers, you succeed.  If not, you fail.

If you do damage, roll a d10 +/- modifiers.  You do that much damage.

There's a bit more work on the other side of the screen, but not much.

And, as a plus, if you go strictly random character creation, you can whip up a brand new character in 10 minutes...


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## TheNovaLord (Jul 24, 2009)

not quite that simple

chances to hit are quite low (and i think you can start with 2 attacks per round), plus the defender gets various defence rolls (dodge or parry or both) so combat can drag.


and damage is compared to toughness

Plus it has a fate point system as well


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 24, 2009)

In WFRP is not your chance to hit but how you hit, like from behind, with a bar stool, etc that will be the deciding factor in a game.  

Also, foes are more linear in life expectancy, meaning a goblin has an equal chance of killing you for a longer period of time, you have to have 5 to 10 advances to abilities / skills before you take one out without too much trouble, that's one!  Things like trolls, you better have numbers and a plan.


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## C_M2008 (Jul 24, 2009)

Any suggestions as to good adventures for first-timers? Something that shows off the breadth of the system and setting would be great.


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## Rel (Jul 24, 2009)

The basics of WFRP combat are quite simple as stated. But it is a mistake to assume that there are no tactics involved.

Things like ganging up on a foe, when to All Out Attack or not, what you spend Fortune Points on, whether you carry a shield or use a two-handed weapon, these sorts of things have a HUGE impact on the outcome of a battle.  I'd urge any GM or player to study the implications of these rules.


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## Emirikol (Jul 24, 2009)

C_M2008 said:


> Any suggestions as to good adventures for first-timers? Something that shows off the breadth of the system and setting would be great.





Towards the bottom of this section are FOUR free download adventures for introducing new players and getting back into the swing of things:
Black Industries

Play More Scenarios
On the Black Industries website there are a whole host of scenarios available for groups to play through. Many of these are suitable for new groups wanting to play a few more games, but we would recommend you check out the following as being easy to read and run:

* The Bigger they Are…
* Worse than the Disease
* With a Little Help From My Friends
* The Affair of the Hidden Jewel

Here are all the old FREE DOWNLOAD ADVENTURES from the Black Industries site (from when they put out WFRP2 a couple years ago):
Black Industries



..



jh


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 24, 2009)

Did I post this link?  Strike to Stun see the download area.


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## Obryn (Jul 24, 2009)

Rel said:


> The basics of WFRP combat are quite simple as stated. But it is a mistake to assume that there are no tactics involved.
> 
> Things like ganging up on a foe, when to All Out Attack or not, what you spend Fortune Points on, whether you carry a shield or use a two-handed weapon, these sorts of things have a HUGE impact on the outcome of a battle. I'd urge any GM or player to study the implications of these rules.



YES.  Absolutely.

Of particular note (IMO) are the Aim actions and the All-Out Attack action.  If you're running by the book, there are few reasons not to use Aim if you have a shield or a second weapon.  (You get a free Parry and only get 1/round this way, so you don't need to save an action for a Parry.)  So, in a sense, using a second weapon or a shield can translate to a +10% to attack in most - but not all - circumstances.

All-Out Attack is particularly awesome for a DM.  Combat - especially at early stages - can _drag_ if your players' dice aren't on fire.  Not only is there a low chance of hitting, but there's a sizable chance of doing insignificant damage even if you do hit.  All-Out Attack helps your monsters hit more often, and means you don't need to hold back a pesky parry you might forget about anyway.  What's more, it's ideal for PCs who are ganging up on a single foe, because a single enemy can't attack all of them, right?

Speaking of - ganging up on a target is _huge_.  When running WFRP, instead of using a battle map, I more or less keep track of it the same way I do in AD&D.  I assume that melee combatants are in one or more scrums, and everyone else is somewhere else.  If you can divide up the scrum so that you outnumber your foes, you get huge bonuses to-hit, +10%, +20%, or more.  So you could try and peel off a single mutant, gang up on them to dispatch them, and then work your way onto the rest of them.  It's really all about numbers.

Finally, missile weapons in WFRP are completely insane.  You can't parry them, so there's often no defense against them.  About the only issue is that you're dead meat if you end up in melee combat - you can't do the 5' step and attack like you can in 3e.  Still, if you can hang back, you can demolish enemies with a high Ballistics Skill and a decent weapon.

-O


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## frankthedm (Jul 24, 2009)

> TheNovaLord said:
> 
> 
> > chances to hit are quite low
> ...


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## TheNovaLord (Jul 24, 2009)

so i was right on all 3 counts then?

and your added bits just added to my 'combat isnt that simple point' from earlier.

and not sure why you compare it to computer games either TBH.

john


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## Sanzuo (Jul 24, 2009)

Guys, combat in this game is pretty damn simple.  I can't think of a game off the top of my head that has rules that are more simple aside from stuff like Dread.

Any game can use tactics that make things more complicated.  It all depends on the mind of the players.  In my opinion things like taking cover, defending, flanking and so on are simple maneuvers and exist in all games, whatever the system.  Stuff like this can make combat not drag at all.

My group tends towards one-handers and shields.  But I think an interesting tactic would to have one tough guy with a shield run in first to engage the enemy and then have a great weapon guy move into flank doing all out attacks.  Impact is a wonderful thing.


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## Iron Sky (Jul 24, 2009)

Obryn said:


> Finally, missile weapons in WFRP are completely insane.  You can't parry them, so there's often no defense against them.  About the only issue is that you're dead meat if you end up in melee combat - you can't do the 5' step and attack like you can in 3e.  Still, if you can hang back, you can demolish enemies with a high Ballistics Skill and a decent weapon.




I found it actually more scary to be a ranged attacker than a melee fighter with my last character (Vau, an elven hunter).  Sure, you can hide behind cover, but that doesn't help you if the enemy hits you in the head three times in a row (like they did when Vau died).

Even though he had about 45% base chance to hit, a longbow, and quick load, I'd often find myself running into combat with my sword and shield anyway due to:

A) In melee, you at least have a chance to parry or dodge (and hopefully a fate point or two to re-roll one of those that fails).

B) Even at most ranged weapon's long ranges, most enemies are rarely more than 2 rounds from getting to you.  If you roll really well, you might be able to drop one enemy in that time.  If you have quick load, you might be able to do hit-and-run for a round or two, but then you're in melee anyway.

C) Ganging up.  Even if you're in a fairly advantageous ranged scenario (close range, quick load, decent weapon, no ranged enemies), your allies are probably in combat getting ganged upon by whatever it is you're fighting.  So, less bonuses for your allies, more bonuses for your enemies, and more focused damage for your enemies as well - and you're suffering penalties for firing into melee to boot!

I'm much happier with my Lau, my combat-nominal Demagogue (ex-Rogue) than I was with my "archer badass."  Being the face is fun!


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## Obryn (Jul 25, 2009)

Well, my vision may have been colored by having Halfling Fieldwarden sling-snipers in both WFRP games I've run!

They did as much damage as the rest of the party put together!

-O


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 25, 2009)

The most dangerous player in my games is The Doctor, Max Gutstapler, he has killed more friends and foes than the rest of the party. And then there is the maining!  

His current theory is mold and fungus helps the healing process and stops infections.


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## Sanzuo (Jul 25, 2009)

Hand of Evil said:


> The most dangerous player in my games is The Doctor, Max Gutstapler, he has killed more friends and foes than the rest of the party. And then there is the maining!
> 
> His current theory is mold and fungus helps the healing process and stops infections.




This is the greatest thing ever.


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## thedungeondelver (Jul 25, 2009)

What is *WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLE-PLAY*?

*WARHAMMER FANTASY ROLE-PLAY* is the game where the players _think_ they're playing *DUNGEONS & DRAGONS* but the game-master _knows_ they're playing *CALL OF CTHULHU*!


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## Emirikol (Jul 30, 2009)

We just started The Enemy Within campaign for WFRP2.  Gm had run it in 1e and is doing a killer job of upating it to 2e!  Of course that means we were all at 0 wounds after the first combat against the mutants...

Characters:
Mootlander Graverobber
Imperial halfling Cartographer
Middenlader Raconteur (me)
Grey Mtn Dwarf Shieldbreaker


There's also several games going on MAPTOOL freeware online if you're interested (forums.rptools.net)

jh


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## FriarRosing (Jul 30, 2009)

My local game store has the 1st edition of the game for fifteen dollars. Should I buy it? Or should I shell out another 15 bucks for a copy of the second edition?


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## Maggan (Jul 31, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> My local game store has the 1st edition of the game for fifteen dollars. Should I buy it? Or should I shell out another 15 bucks for a copy of the second edition?




Unfortunately, my best advice is "get them both".

If that's not feasible, I'd go for first edition at that price level. The two editions are by and large compatible, except for the rules for magic.

Of course, if you're lusting over the second edition tomes of corruption and salvation and the realms of sorcery book, I'd recommend you go for second edition.

Actually, if you're planning on getting more books for the game, go for second edition. Those supplements are more readily available at reasonable prices, and are also available as PDF:s.

But if you're only going for the one book, I'd say go for the 15 dollars option.

/m


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## Sanzuo (Jul 31, 2009)

Since Emirikol brought up the Maptools thing for WFRP, which I think is pretty sweet, I'm going to add this to the op.



Emirikol said:


> The Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay Maptool Project
> This project's purpose is to encourage play of WFRP on Maptool by making it quick and easy for a GM to get a game started with little or now start-up work.
> 
> Here's how you do it:
> ...


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## FriarRosing (Aug 1, 2009)

Maggan said:


> Unfortunately, my best advice is "get them both".
> 
> If that's not feasible, I'd go for first edition at that price level. The two editions are by and large compatible, except for the rules for magic.
> 
> ...




I got the second edition book. I figured it wasn't that much more expensive, and the number of supplements kind of pushed me over the edge. 

I've book looking over the game, and I'm pretty excited to play. I'll probably get my group to run it sometime this upcoming week.

Thanks for the advice!


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## Maggan (Aug 1, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> Thanks for the advice!




Here's some more advice, even though you didn't ask for it:

First things first: welcome to WFRP! An excellent choice!

1. You should also buy Sigmar's Heirs, to get a good picture of the Empire.

2. After that, go for Old World Bestiary, which contains more monsters (although I think it is totally possible to play with just the monsters in the core rulebook, the OWB is very useful).

3. Rather than buy an adventure, you should go here:

Fantasy Flight Games [Warhammer Fantasy Roleplay - Support] - Leading publisher of board, card, and roleplaying games.

Download the four adventures you can find on that page (The Oldenhaller Contract, Burn After Printing, Grauschloss and The Nine Virtues of Magnus the Pious).

4. If you want even more adventures, go to this page:

Winds of Chaos » Scenarios

Download those two adventures as well (Noblesse Oblige and Dead Ringer).

5. Then go to this site:

http://www.malleus.dk

It has the best online character generator available for any roleplaying game IMO, and a lot of other cool stuff as well.

6. While you're at it, visit:

Dave's Games

Download everything. It will add immensely to your game.

7. Then go to this site:

Warpstone magazine

Order as many different issues of Warpstone as possible. They contain adventures, as well as interesting articles about other aspects of WFRP not covered by official supplements. There are also downloads, e.g. an adventure right there on the starting page.

8. For maps of the world, go to:

Black Spectrum Productions

9. And if you still feel like you need to buy an adventure, go for The Thousand Thrones.

And ask away if there's anything else you're wondering about!

/Magnus


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## frankthedm (Aug 2, 2009)

Maggan said:


> 1. You should also buy Sigmar's Heirs, to get a good picture of the Empire.



Sigmars's Heirs is an ok book, but since the actual chapters that detail the 4 great cities are in four other adventure books, IMNSHO, the book is woefully incomplete.


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## FriarRosing (Aug 3, 2009)

Thanks for all of the advice and resources. I think I'll definitely get the bestiary, and probably Sigmar's Heirs, too. I really wish I could find the game master's kit for cheap, since there are so many tables I would like to have at the ready.

I'll hit up my local game store tomorrow when they're open.


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## Emirikol (Aug 6, 2009)

Sandwich said:


> Thanks for all of the advice and resources. I think I'll definitely get the bestiary, and probably Sigmar's Heirs, too. I really wish I could find the game master's kit for cheap, since there are so many tables I would like to have at the ready.  I'll hit up my local game store tomorrow when they're open.







All of the books are now available for purchase as PDF's at RPGnow.com and drivethrurpg.com.  The cool thing is that they're fixing errata in the PDF versions too.  The GM screen is handy.  The toolkit isn't all that great.  It's just tables of spur-of-the-moment adventure ideas (which, for some people, may be handy...).


Dont' forget to follow up on the official WFRP forums too.  The guys there love to help.

I also did a complete creature index here:  http://www.enworld.org/forum/general-rpg-discussion/242937-wfrp-complete-creature-index.html#post4507809


jay


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## Sanzuo (Aug 20, 2009)

Thought I'd bump the thread with Emirikol's latest announcement.



Emirikol said:


> Just for fun, I went through and did a summary of the WFRP2 scenarios and made a list of their recommended max xp, and number of careers recommended. [edit: note this is author-recommended listings of xp..some GM's prefer 100 xp per night]
> 
> I hope some of you GM's find it useful.
> 
> ...




Thread is here.


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