# Destroying a Lich's Phylactery while the Lich is Still Alive (er, un-alive?)



## Radiating Gnome

Okay, I'm planning for another session, and I'm thinking about creating the potential for the PCs in my game to come upon the lair of a Lich, and in that lair the Lich's Phylactery, but not the Lich itself.  The Phylactery will of course be well protected, but should the PCs get past those protections and destroy the phylactery, will that destroy the Lich itself?  Or just the LIch's ability to be reconstituted after being destroyed?

Here's the RSRD on the Lich's Phylactery:

THE LICH’S PHYLACTERY
An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death.
Each lich must make its own phylactery, which requires the Craft Wondrous Item feat. The character must be able to cast spells and have a caster level of 11th or higher. The phylactery costs 120,000 gp and 4,800 XP to create and has a caster level equal to that of its creator at the time of creation.
The most common form of phylactery is a sealed metal box containing strips of parchment on which magical phrases have been transcribed. The box is Tiny and has 40 hit points, hardness 20, and a break DC of 40.
Other forms of phylacteries can exist, such as rings, amulets, or similar items.


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## jgsugden

Radiating Gnome said:
			
		

> The Phylactery will of course be well protected, but should the PCs get past those protections and destroy the phylactery, will that destroy the Lich itself?
> 
> Here's the RSRD on the Lich's Phylactery:
> 
> THE LICH’S PHYLACTERY
> *An integral part of becoming a lich is creating a magic phylactery in which the character stores its life force. As a rule, the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery.* Unless its phylactery is located and destroyed, a lich reappears 1d10 days after its apparent death.



Although far from clear, I'd rule that destroying the phylactery ends the existence of the lich. The phylactery holds the life force of the lich. The rules specify that the only way to get rid of a lich for sure is to destroy its phylactery. That means that destroying the phylactery is necessary to permanently destroy the lich, but it does not specify that destroying the phylactery will acheive all steps necessary in destroying the lich permanently. This may, however, be splitting hairs. Most liches will have some form of protection for their phylactery that will warn them if it is in danger. Usually, you will not get to the phylactery without running into the lich.


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## wolff96

This is a house rule, since it isn't really addressed in the rules, but...

I think the "soul" should be returned to the physical lich. So you destroy the phylactery, making the lich somewhat mortal. He retains his lich powers, but if you kill him, he is gone for good.

It then becomes another quest to hunt down the lich before he can create a new phylactery. And come back for some serious revenge.


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## UltimaGabe

Well, now that you mention it, it is rather unclear... but I'd say that you still have to destroy the Lich himself. I'd say his soul sort of... returns to him once his phylactery is destroyed. Once that happens, he's just like any other undead.


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## LGodamus

we play it as you have to kill the lich and destroy the phylactery...but the order doesnt matter......the only problem with destroying the phylactery first is the lich knows it and probably becomes very cautious until he can build a new one......


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## Shadeus

Heh, the fact the rules are unclear and thus far no players or DMs have had to house rule this much shows you how often it happens.  If I were some super-intelligent undead, I'll bury it in a hundred feet of rock with a spare spell book and some key treasure.  Good luck teleporting or digging to the exact right location.

I'd just make sure it isn't acceptable very easily or just sitting on a pedastle or even in a vault some place.  I'm sure you've thought of all that though.


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## Count Arioch the 28t

I tend to put the phylactery on the lich itself, because I feel that a lich is quite capable of defending it's own soul gem.

Oftentimes, I'll put the phylacery as an atypical thing, usually something beneficial, such as on a Amulet of Natural Armor, or some such thing that the players would want to keep.


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## Radiating Gnome

I have seen that done (the phylactery on the Lich) but that doesn't work for me in this case.  I have an army of undead that uses many Liches as officers in my high-level campaign.  The Liches and not the biggest baddest thing on the table anymore, and if they don't have their phylacteries with them when they die, that means they can just come back later all over again -- something my PCs have not quite figured out yet (they got hit by five liches at one time a few months back, and took a beating, but did manage to kill one.  That one will be back, of course. )

-rg


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## welby

Count Arioch the 28t said:
			
		

> Oftentimes, I'll put the phylacery as an atypical thing, usually something beneficial, such as on a Amulet of Natural Armor, or some such thing that the players would want to keep.




That's just evil!

Also, whether or not a Liche dies when the phylacery is destroyed, I know no liche in his right mind would allow the phylacery to even be looked at without showing up to defend it.


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## Caliban

Using a suggestion from Monte Cook, I have a lich in my home campaign that used a 50,000 gp gem to create his phylactery, and then used it as the focus for a "Trap The Soul" spell on a Tarrasque.   The players aren't aware of this, although there is a cryptic prophesy that hints at it. 

Now, if you destroy the phylactery you unleash the tarrasque.


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## Mac Callum

Caliban said:
			
		

> Using a suggestion from Monte Cook, I have a lich in my home campaign that used a 50,000 gp gem to create his phylactery, and then used it as the focus for a "Trap The Soul" spell on a Tarrasque.   The players aren't aware of this, although there is a cryptic prophesy that hints at it.
> 
> Now, if you destroy the phylactery you unleash the tarrasque.




Sweet lordy, that's just Rat-Bastardly.

On topic, I always assumed that the Lich only needed the phylactery to reform after being destroyed.  The Phylactery's destruction has no effect on him other than that though.

Come to think of it though, if his life force is in the Phylactery, and after its destruction it re-vests in the Lich, what would that do to him?  Eh, I'd say nothing - otherwise it would just be too easy to circumvent the Lich.  Evil, Undead Immortal Arch-mages who can be defeated by crushing a little box are no fun at all.


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## Darklone

wolff96 said:
			
		

> This is a house rule, since it isn't really addressed in the rules, but...
> 
> I think the "soul" should be returned to the physical lich. So you destroy the phylactery, making the lich somewhat mortal. He retains his lich powers, but if you kill him, he is gone for good.
> 
> It then becomes another quest to hunt down the lich before he can create a new phylactery. And come back for some serious revenge.



I really love that idea... fits in style to the fairy tales about evil wizards who put their soul into the bone of a detached finger and bury it somewhere and stay immortal till someone finds and breaks the bone...

I'll think about making the lich "alive" again. 

BTW: The last lich I used hid his phylactery in the head of a vampire...


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## Li Shenron

I like these idea very much too, both wolff96's and Caliban's.

Incidentally, how is it possible to identify that an object is a Lich's phylactery?


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## the Jester

Darklone said:
			
		

> BTW: The last lich I used hid his phylactery in the head of a vampire...





In our last session the pcs fought a composite undead composed of the stitched-together bits of many bodies with a lich's phylactery sewn into its chest.  Same idea, methinks.


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## Nightingale 7

The closest thing to cannon I could find about what happens to a lich when destroying it's phylactery was in the Pool of Radiance:Ruins of Myth Drannor module

SPOILERS FOLLOWING:

The adventure requires destroying a dracolich's phylactery,while it is away,and the module states that the dracolich remains alive(and very pissed) after it's destruction,but if the dracolich is destroyed before he makes a new phylactery,then it's death is permanent.


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