# Epic Cinematic (Recruiting)



## Albedo (Apr 28, 2008)

This is going to be a level 30 campaign for probably about 4 players. I'm looking for people who can post at least once every 3 days. However, this is going to vary slightly from conventional D&D. This is going to be a discriptive game. This will mean a few important things PCs have to keep in mind.

I) First and foremost, conventional D&D physics are out the window. All PCs in game will have their movement speeds increased by x15. Please keep in mind that if you had a starting speed of 30ft, being changed into 450ft, this would grant you a +168 to any jump check. This will allow you considerably more manueverability and keep you options open for creative movement.

II) Every action made will need to come with a detailed description. If you attack, I want you to tell me how you attack. The amount of detail is up to you, but I will be giving bonuses based off of these descriptions, so use your imagionations, and try to find circumstancial bonuses to aid you.

Ex: Farlgor charges attacks his opponent with his greatsword.

Can to changed to: Farlgor brings his greatsword down in a powerful overhead swing, intending to crush his smaller opponent under the weight of the blow.

III) Unlike most D&D, this campaign will be done in Third Person Limited, as if the character you guys represent isn't actually your PCs, but actually someone else watching your PCs from the side. Don't post on things like what your character is thinking, only focus on things visible to other people. I would also like to keep dialogue to a minimal here as well. The view I am going for here is like you are a character just outside hearing range of normal talking voices. 


Now, there are few additional rules I am adding to spice things up a little. These rules, as well as the forementioned speed bonus, are applicable only to PCs, and important NPCs, so you guys are going to feel very special compared to the normal folk.

1. Immediate actions will no longer take away swift actions from the following round. They are now just once/round.
2. Every character gains the ability to take an extra move action every round as an immediate action.
3. If you use a fullround action, and your immediate action, you can move while making a full attack, provided you move at least 10ft per attack. This movement still provokes attack of opportunity.
4. When you charge, you have a chance to take additional attacks, at the same attack bonuses you make as if you were using a full attack action (I.E. first attack at +10, second at +5). Everytime you hit with an attack off of a charge, you get to take an additional attack. In additon, everytime you attack them you make an opposed Str check, gaining a +1 bonus for every 5 damage the attack would deal (whether or not you hit them with it). If you succeed on this check, your opponent is pushed back 5 ft, and cannot move next turn. He can still attack and act normally, he just cannot leave his square, with one exception. He may take a withdraw action to get away from you. If you move away from your opponent, he can move again.
5. Heroic Surge (Not the D20 Modern Feat): Once per day as a free action you regain all lost hit points and remove all negetive status effects.
6. Pcs now have access to a new feat: Foe Catcher - If any opponent adjacent to you attempts a tumble check, you gain an attack of opportunity. Your opponents AC becomes his tumble check result.
Prerequisites:
Combat Reflexes, BAB +15
7.All hit point totals are multiplied by x5. In addition, any levels taken with Epic Base Classes have the HP gained at that level at x5 normal hit points. As well, levels in Epic Prestige Classes gain x2 normal HP.  
Ex: A fighter gaining 3/4 Hp would gain 7.5 HP/level, plus max at first, adding up to 227.5 hp at 30th level. However, in this system, the fighter would be gaining 37.5 hp a level at epic, changing its level 30 total to 452.5. Add the "every hp total is x5 higher", and you have 2262.5 hp without factoring a con score. 

These rules will increase mobility in combat, and when paired with good descriptions and use of surroundings and cirumstantial bonuses, should make for some very interesting combat.



Character Creation Rules:

Every character must use a weapon as his primary fighting style. I don't want any characters to be primarily spell users. I don't have problems with people having spellcasting abilities to supplement themselves, and buff fighters are still an option. This also doesn't mean you can't attack with spells, but I would prefer you keep them to killing mooks and normal people. Shapechanging will require discussion.

Any Wizard Hardcover sources are allowed to begin with, but every class, item, feat, etc should have a book and page number added so I can reference it quickly. I reserve the right to Veto anything I don't like, or that won't fit in this system. 

Stats: 90 points, spent on a 1 for 1 basis. Max 18, Min 8

HP: Max at first, 3/4 for every other level

Gold: You guys start with 10,000,000gp, but over half of it needs to be spent on a single item.

Crafting: I'm not allowing you guys to have precrafted items, sorry.

Setting: Because I want characters to feel involved in the world, I'm leaving everything blank for now. I will create things as I go along, and PCs can feel free to add in their ideas as well. To follow this ideal, every character must submit a name for the island you all start on with your characters. Backstory is completly up to you, though I would like an explanation as to why you guys are as powerful as you are, since you are much stronger than the average inhabitants of said island.

Special Descriptive Features: What your moves, items, attacks, etc look like are completely up to you guys, as long as they don't alter the rules OOC. As such, feel free to describe special attacks or succesion techniques however you feel like. You can cover you hands in flames, slash out with dark energy, or glow with power when you fight. Your only limit is yourself. Just remember that damage types are still dependant on the D&D rules.


One more thing for posting actions in combat. When you attack someone, describe it to the point just before impact with your opponent. This leaves room for description of his defending himself. At the same time, I will do the same thing with you guys. Like everything else, proper description of you defense can give you bonuses. Also, an important thing to note is that unless it is completely wrong or out of place, anything you guys write essentially becomes fact. To make up for things like immediate actions, and your extra move action, if something happens that makes it so that you are not where the other person figures your supposed to be when he takes his action, you leave an afterimage. If you immediatly move out of the way of a charging opponent, he slices through your image and it dissapears. If he uses his immediate move to get beside you before he swings, he appears next to you and his image of attacking you also dissappears.


So... any questions?


----------



## Jemal (Apr 28, 2008)

HEHE.. my kinda game.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 28, 2008)

Several 

Which Source material is allowed, specifically are Tome of Battle and Savage Species ok?

Do you allow the Flaws option from UA to grant extra feats?

Would you allow the mutation option from d20 future srd.

What would the LA be for the paragon and psuedonatural templates from the ELH.

Is there A maximum number of classes and or PrCs that a given character can have? (Highly recomended to stop front loaders)

My wish concept would be a mutated paragon thri kreen, swordsage/crusader/master of nine. With his 1 5 mil item being an enhanced set of beast claws(6).


----------



## Albedo (Apr 28, 2008)

Tome of Battle and Savage Species are fine in and of themselves, though I AM scetchy about a few of the concepts available in Tome of Battle, so I will be a keeping an eye on your character if you use it. 

I will not be allowing flaws from UA

I know I said Wizards sources, but I'm gonna specify it more with D&D wizard sources. No d20 Modern. It doesn't seed well.

Paragon template will be LA 20, Psuedunatural will be LA 18. Its a little high, but some of the worst things I've seen in d&d have stemmed off these 2 templates.

You have 10 mil to spend, at least 5 of it has to be on one item. I'm not sure where you got the 15 mil from.

I'm gonna have to say no on the Thri-Kreen. For the LA it represents, its hideously overpowered.

If you get up to 10 classes, check with me 

I need book and page numbers for all your stuff. Makes it alot easier to find.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 28, 2008)

Btw, I missed some of my rules. Its going up in the first post, but I'm putting it here so all who have read this already know where it is.

Heroic Surge (Not the D20 Modern Feat): Once per day as a free action you regain all lost hit points and remove all negetive status effects.

Pcs now have access to a new feat: Foe Catcher - If any opponent adjacent to you attempts a tumble check, you gain an attack of opportunity. Your opponents AC becomes his tumble check result.
Prerequisites:
Combat Reflexes, BAB +15

All hit point totals are multiplied by x5. In addition, any levels taken with Epic Base Classes have the HP gained at that level at x5 normal hit points. As well, levels in Epic Prestige Classes gain x2 normal HP.  

Ex: A fighter gaining 3/4 Hp would gain 7.5 HP/level, plus max at first, adding up to 227.5 hp at 30th level. However, in this system, the fighter would be gaining 37.5 hp a level at epic, changing its level 30 total to 452.5. Add the "every hp total is x5 higher", and you have 2262.5 hp without factoring a con score.


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 28, 2008)

I would like to use an epic warlock (Complete arcane). Perhaps some kind of epic feat that allows him to make fullattacks with hideous blow? If not I would go with eldritch glaive from Dragon Magic. What about the epic warlock feats from the WotC website?

link: http://64.223.12.31/default.asp?x=dnd/ei/20061027a

I imagine a flying fighter, using a dark-purple glowing reach weapon with special effects, who uses his spell-like abilities to confuse his fows and get tactical advantages.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 28, 2008)

Albedo - I don't think he meant 15 mil, there's a space between the 1 and the 5, I believe he was refering to his One 5-million item(You said 10 mil and half must be spent on a single item, hence one 5-million GP item)

Also, a few questions: Is heroic surge a feat we can take, or an ability that all PC's have?

RE: HP I assume from your example that all those multipliers are cumulative then?  IE it would be X25 total for epic base classes and X10 for epic prestige classes (Counting everything)
I figured I'd ask for clarification, even though my concept won't benefit too much from that rule.  

I'm planning on using a character I've played at lvl 20 on ENWorld before, in the game "No Mans Land", run by Darimaus. 
[sblock=Whin Zacharius Roe, Background]
Whin Zacharius Roe was born to human parents, Father a great General, Mother 
a powerful mage, both patriots. They had been specifically bred together in 
the hopes of producing a powerful weapon for their country. From the moment 
of his birth, the burning eyes and scaled skin let the powers that be know 
that they had suceeded. Whin was raised not by parents, but by the country 
itself, his every want and need looked after as he was trained many hours a 
day. He was outfitted with a Ring of Sustenance while still young, to 
maximize the time he could spend training. As such, Whin does not eat or 
drink, neither as habit, courtesy, or for pleasure. When he reached 13, he 
received a rather unusual surprise... A powerful devil had been summoned by 
the High Mage to bestow a present on the young prodigy, and Whin was taken 
away for a week. When he returned, having recovered from the diabolic 
surgery, his arms and legs had been replaced, he had large bat wings, and 
any childish innocence he may have retained had been whiped away by the evil 
influences. By the time he was 17, he could best his father in martial 
combat, and was nearly the equal of his mother in spellcasting.

Over the next years, whenever he had spare time Whin would read through the 
extensive library on his quest for more. He taught himself the basics of 
martial arts, and soon learned of secret ways to harness truley powerful 
abjuration spells, as well as various forms of instantaneous transportation. 
He learned of other's like himself, of an entire Spellscale race, and set 
about learning all he could about them, attempting to fill in the holes he 
felt in himself. He realized that he shared much with them.. Curiosity, 
drive, a love of magic, and he also learned of their sacred rituals, which 
he realized he had been performing for years without even knowing it. Once 
he had learned what he could, he secretly destroyed the books to keep them 
from being used against him, and then continued with his training and work. 
On his 20th birthday, Whin was presented with a special crafted gift, a 
"ForceLance" they called it, it was just like him... a custom combination of 
martial and magical power.

Soon thereafter, Whin was called to perform his duties for his country. His 
first assignment was to destroy a tribe of trolls holed up in an old dwarven 
mine that the country wanted to reopen. Next was a dragon; then a band of 
adventurers trying to 'overturn the corrupt and evil government'; a powerful 
Lich; a coven of hags; A Baron planning to take over; etc, etc.

Most recently, he was sent to destroy a tribe of Ogre-magi. When he got 
there, however, it had allready been destroyed, and all that remained was a 
rather unusual goblin. Desiring to know who or what had done this, in order 
to discover if it posed a threat, he began questioning the goblin. To his 
surprise, the goblin claimed it had been he, 'Meekor', that had destroyed 
the tribe. Enraged by the goblin's incredulous lies, Whin moved to strike 
him down, only to discover much to his surprise that this goblin was, 
indeed, very skilled in the divine arts. This being something Whin had no 
experience with, he decided instead to learn what he could about this 
'Meekor', and his powers. They travelled together for a short time, becoming 
strangely close allies for their divergent lives.. Both desired the same 
things above all else... power, and to be in control of their own lives. 
When he returned to his country, Whin lied for the first time, omiting the 
existance of his friend... And of the God, Boccob, that he had come to 
worship. A year later, Whin awoke during the night from a dream... He had 
seen Meekor, and a figure he knew to be Boccob, beckoning him to the Oceans, 
to an island. After a week of the dream repeating every night, Whin decided 
to figure out some way of leaving, but as it turned out, he didn't have to. 
The Fiendish being that his King (And parents, and most of his country) 
worshiped had decreed that all of the best warriors and mages were to be 
sent to sea, to deal with a problem that had arisen. Though they did not 
tell him explicitely, Whin knew from his dream that this problem extended 
beyond their kingdom, beyond his parent's false god and his King's desires. 
He also knew that on this quest, he would find true power.

Once he arrived at the port, he quickly went about the town, secretly 
gathering books that he'd never had before. Knowledge, after all, was power, 
else why would they have tried to keep him in the dark about so much? After 
finding his books, he went to meet with Meekor, but to his annoyance, could 
not find the priest. When the boats began to sail and he still hadn't found 
the goblin, the only true companion he'd ever had, he quickly boarded the 
first boat. During the voyage, he would have much to do... Find out where 
they were heading and why, discover all he could about his travelling 
companions, see what they knew, keep up his training, find his lost friend Meekor, and (if 
time permitted) maybe do a litle reading about the world at large. All Whin 
knew was that from this point on, his life would never be the same. He was 
done working for the Government, he would do this for himself.

Appearance :
Whin is a rather creepy looking individual. His face is hollow and harsh, 
his scales seem angry, his eyes show a soul tainted by evil since birth, and 
his long, silver hair is spiked. He wears no armour, and his clothing 
consists of Red&Black shorts and vest, revealing his fiendish appendages, 
which have been his so long that his scales now cover part of them, making 
them look as if they've always been a part of him. Large Bat-like wings 
extend from his back, unhindered by the jewelry embroidered cloak he is so 
accustomed to wearing. A pair of black gloves fit his hands like a second 
skin, sharp claws sticking out the specially fitted holes in the ends.
[/sblock]

My planned progression will probably be something along the lines of 
Male Spellscale Monk2/Swash3/Sorc6/E.Knight13/Ab.Champ5/Argent Savant 1, though that may change.
Question on that note, btw.. the abjurant champion's(Complete Mage pg50) abilities all refer to 'abjuration spells', but they also refer to Mage Armour, and the example character USES an enhanced mage armour.  The problem is, Mage Armour isn't actually an abjuration spell in 3.5.  Would it be safe to assume that this was an oversight and that the Abj.Champ's abilities are supposed to function with mage armour/greater mage armour?

More questions : Fiendish grafts (From Fiend Folio) Yay/nay?  Specifically looking at Fiendish Legs, Arms, and Wings.

As far as magic items, you said 1 item that costs 5 mil or more, is this single item allowed to have multiple abilities (Via the DMG 'adding abilities', pg 288)?  I ask b/c the characters main weapon is a Magical staff, which is designed much like he is, it's both useful for fighting and spellcasting (A standard staff with spells in it, and then enchanted as a weapon).  I wouldn't be enchanting both ends of it as a double weapon, just the whole thing (as a 2-handed weapon).

Also, a note : Though he is a fairly powerful spellcaster, Whin is primarily a melee fighter using his immense arcane potential as buffs, backups, and to destroy opponents he deems not worth the time (Fireballing hordes of minions, etc).  
I think he'll work very well in this campaign, he was designed basically as a powerful/epic anime-styled character (Think DBZ, Bleach, or Gundams. (Hence the name, Whin. Z.Roe: wing zero, or as his government calls him, W. Z.Roe: Weapon Zero)

ALso, Vertex - Front loading may seem twinky, but sometimes taking levels in many different classes is the only way to get the character you want.  For example, a concept for a melee fighter who's physically weak may take a few levels in monk, swashbuckler, and duelist (Among many others I could think of), to offset his low str/dex.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 28, 2008)

I'm interested... I'll see what I can put together today. I have a hankering for some twin daggers... Are there rules for animal companions?

Hey, Jemal, this reminds me...are you still gonna run your epic?


----------



## Jemal (Apr 28, 2008)

Shay - yep.  See that thread.

Albedo - Updated concept a little bit, dropped the argent savant for another level of E.Knight.  

Here's a rough/not-finished draft of Whin, if anybody wants to look it over.

[sblock=Whin Z. Roe]
Whin Z. Roe
Male Spellscale(Originally human) Swashbuckler3/Monk2/Sorc6/E.Knight14/Abjurant Champion5
{Levels up to 20 for bab/save math: Swash3/Sorc6/E.Knight6/Abj.Champ5}
AL: LE HT: 5'5"(10'10" enlarged) WT: 154 (1238 enlarged) Age: 29 Hair: Silver/spiked Eyes: Red

*stats/AC/etc are assuming all buffs cast*
(Base stats may vary**)
STR: 42 (+16) [17 Base + 10 Enhancement + 5 Inherent + 8 Arms + 2 size]
DEX: 30 (+10) [17 Base + 8 Enhancement + 5 Inherent - 2 size + 2 Level]
CON: 20 (+5) [12 Base + 6 Enhancement + 4 Inherent - 2 Racial]
INT: 30 (+10) [16 Base + 10 Enhancement + 4 Inherent]
WIS: 20 (+5) [10 Base + 6 Enhancement + 4 Inherent]
CHA: 40 (+15) [18 Base + 10 Enhancement + 5 Inherent + 2 Racial + 5 Level]

HP: 1717 (8d10+2d8+10d6+6d4+130)X5 + (4d6+20)X10 (Epic E.Knight)
AC: 71 (10 Base + 10 Dex + 15 Cha + 2 Class + 5 Deflection + 6 Natural Armour + 11 
Armour + 9 Shield + 2 Luck +2 Insight - 1 size) [63 Flat Footed, 55 touch]
Saves: 
FORT: +32 (14 base + 5 con + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck + 5 Epic)  
REF: +30 (7 base + 10 dex + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck + 5 Epic)  
WILL: +28 (10 base + 5 wis + 6 Resistance + 2 Luck + 5 Epic)


Init: + 9. Move : 1800', 3600' fly.

Bab: 22 Grapple : +42 Trip : +20
Forcelance(Collosal) : + 38/33/28/23, 6d6+34 damage.
Claws : +38/38, 1d8+16 damage.
Full Flurry : Forcelance +36/36/31/26/21, 6d6+34 PLUS claws +36/36, 1d8+16

Skills(Total/Ranks):[201 Points] Balance(+37/5), Concentration(+39/30), Know:Arcana(+37/25), 
Spellcraft(+37/25), Jump(+951/25), Tumble(+57/25), Spot(+58/33), Listen(+58/33), 2 points
*cc=cross class*
**Inherent bonus to Int figured for skills as though gained lvl 20**

Feats: [7] Aesetic Mage(C.Adv), Empower Spell[+1], Twin Spell[+3](C.Arc), Sun School(C.War), Quicken Spell[+2], Practical Metamagic:Quicken, 
Improved Speed(Draconomicon)

Bonus Feats: W.Focus: Forcelance(E.Knight), Improved Grapple(Monk), Deflect Arrows(Monk)

Epic Feats: [5] Improved Spell capacity, Improved Metamagic, Multispell, 


Racial Features(RoDragon) : +2 cha, -2 con. Low-Light Vision, Blood 
Quickening. [Common Meditations : *Astilabor(+20 Appraise, Eshcew 
Materials), Chronepsis(+20 Listen, Silent Spell), IO(+20 Spellcraft, Empower 
3/day), Lendys(+20 Concentration, Still Spell)]

Class Features: Sorc Spellcasting@Level 24, Metamagic Specialist(PHB2), 
Improved Unarmed Strike, Abjurant Armour(+5), Extended Abjuration, Swift 
Abjuration, Arcane Boost(+5), Martial Arcanist(N/A)

SPELLS: CL 24
Spells (per day) - Known - List 
LVL 0 (6) - 9 - Light, Detect Magic, Prestidigitation, Stick,
LVL 1 (10)- 5 - Reduce Person, Shield, Benign Transposition+, True Strike, 
Ebon Eyes+
LVL 2 (10)- 5 - Wraith Strike+, See Invisibility, Heroics+, Heroism, 
Scorching Ray
LVL 3 (10)- 4 - Greater Mage Armour+, Ray of the Python+, Dolorus Blow+, 
Ferocity of Sanguine Rage#, Greater Mighty Wallop(RoDrag)
LVL 4 (10)- 4 - Orb of Force+, Orb of Acid+, Dimension Door, Chain Missile+, 
Wings of Flurry(RoDrag)
LVL 5 (9) - 4 - Arcane Fusion*, Lightning Leap*, Greater Blink+, Greater 
Enlarge Person+
LVL 6 (9) - 3 - Greater Anticipate Teleport+, Superior Resistance+, 
LVL 7 (9) - 3 - Arcane Spell Surge#, Avasculate, Energy Absorption*, Greater Teleport
LVL 8 (9) - 3 - Greater Arcane Fusion*, Moment of Presience, 
LVL 9 (8) - 3 - Absorption, Foresight
LVL 10 (3)
(*=C.Mage, +=Spell Compendium, #=Dragon Magic)
Italics = Trying to decide what to drop for this.

*Runestaff Spells, usable 3/day each, uses spell slot*
Cone of cold(5), Continual Flame(2), Fireball(3), Globe of 
Invulnerability(4), Hold Monster(5), Levitate(2), Lightning Bolt(3), Magic 
Missile(1), Ray of Enfeeblement(1), Wall of Force: 5' radius hemisphere 
centered on caster(5)

Daily Cast Buffs :
Greater Mage Armour (+11 Armour to AC), 48 hour duration
Energy Absorption (Resist:10 all energy types; can gain immunity/Heal half 
damage once- ends spell), 48 hour duration
Greater Enlarge Person(Enlarged), 48 hour duration
Greater Mighty Wallop(Collosal weapon damage), 24 hour duration.
Superior Resistance(+6 saves), 24 hour duration
Moment of Presience (+24 to one roll), 24 hour duration

Languages: Common, Draconic, Goblin, Infernal

Other Buffs:
Shield (Swift Action, +9 Shield bonus to AC), 48 round duration
Foresight (4 hour duration)
To Be Edited/Expanded

Equipment: 10,000,000 GP (1 item minimum 5 Million)
BOOKS : Dex+5, CHA+5, Str+5, Int+4, Wis+4, Con+4 (742,500)
*ForceLance: RuneStaff of Power and Speed [+X] (5,000,000)
Monk's Belt of Strength +10 (1,019,500)
Gloves of Storing(20,000)
[Forcelance in one Storing Glove]
Circlet of Awareness(+6 Wis + 6 Int + 20 Spot/Listen): (208,000)
Vest of Constitution +6 (36,000)
Cloak of Charisma +10 (1,000,000)
Amulet of Natural Armour +5 (50,000)
Ring of Protection +5 (50,000)
Ring of Fast Healing/Sustenance (303,750)
Boots of Improved Swiftness(Dex+8) (856,000)
(ff)Fiendish Wings (10,000)
(ff)2 Fiendish Legs (11,000)
(ff)2 Fiendish Arms (100,000)

6,193,250 GP (At least 5 mil must be spent on forcelance)

*=Magic Item Compendium, ff=Fiend Folio.

[sblock=extra numbers for my own reference]
Swash:  3D10 HD, 3 BAB, 3 Fort, 1 Ref, 1 Will, 4 Skills/lvl
Sorc: 6D4 HD, 3 BAB, 2 Fort, 2 Ref, 5 Will, 2 Skills/lvl
Abj Champ:  5D10 HD, 5 BAB, 4 Fort, 1 Ref, 1 Will, 2 Skills/lvl
E.Knight: 14D6 HD, 6 BAB, 5 Fort, 3 Ref, 3 Will, 2 Skills/lvl
Monk:  2D8 HD, 4 Skills/lvl

BAB: 17
FORT: 14
REF: 7
WILL: 10
Skills: 201
[/sblock]
[/sblock]


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 28, 2008)

Ok then lets try the Utrixior, the feral half ogre (SS p.116&217 LA+2) human, Swordsage13/Fighter4/Warblade2/Master of Nine5/bloodclaw Master2/Sorcerer1/Crusader1.

Would the feat Superior Unarmed Fighting (ToB), which raises unarmed dmg based on HD, just raise the dmg by X steps if you start with higher than 1d3 dmg? For example at 8-11 HD it raises 1d3 dmg past 1d4, 1d6 to 1d8 or 3 levels, So if my character's starting dmg was 2d6 with 16+ HD, would it be raised 5 steps as well past 3d6, 4d6, 6d6, 8d6 to 12d6 per claw (as per natural attack progression in the MM)? Because having to beat through a single epic mob with 5000+ HP at 2d6+20/hit in PbP would take about a year 

Does rend only work once a round, or for every 2 claw hits you make? 

Can I have an item with a continuous lvl 1 spell effect (Bloodwind [SpCom]: lets me resolve all my natural attacks normally, but with a 20' range increment)? costs 8000 using the DMG creation guildlines.

Are we using the standard enhancement price break for multiple enh from pg 248 of the MIC?


----------



## Albedo (Apr 28, 2008)

Ok, first off, no item creation chart please. You guys have enough gold you almost have every buff in the game on yourselves 24/7.

Vertex: 
Character concept looks good.

Superior Unarmed Strike doesn't use MM progression, it uses Monk progression. Which means the steps are already listed in the PHB. I'm not sure how you got base 2d6 unarmed strike, remember that your claws don't count as unarmed strike. Since you are Large, and have more than 16 HD, your unarmed would be dealing 4d8 damage.

Btw, you missed the part where the special rules apply ONLY to PCs and Special NPCs. Mobs are still cannon fodder.

Rend is once per round.

We'll be using DMG rules for multiple enhancements, I'm more famailiar with them.

Shayuri:
I'm looking forward to seeing what you come up with.

Animal Companions will be functioning off of normal D&D rules. Any more specific questions about it?

Jemal:
I'll have more time to check over your rough draft later. 

Heroic Surge is an ability everyone gets.

No fiendish arms. Pretty much every other graft is available. Because this system is built for full rounds in combat, I am dissallowing most things that easily give additional limbs for multiweapon fighting. Other grafts are fine.

Yes, you can multiple enhance your weapon, but remember, no item creation chart.

Walking Dad:
i'm gonna say no in general to the Warlock epic feats. I remember reading them and not really liking what they did with them. That being said, if there is a single feat from there you want, I'll check it over and see if I find it reasonable. We'll keep a dialogue open.

I pondered the warlock question when I made this campaign, and I think I prefer the Eldritch Glave method.

Just remember that when fighting real fights (Important NPCs that work off the same rules you do etc), I want you guys fighting with a weapon. Your eldritch blast doesn't count a such, and while I'm not saying you can't fall back on it (such as frying a fast flyer keeping out of your reach) I want to see you using a fighting style rather than point and click. Same goes with the Invocations that target opponents.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 28, 2008)

His base claw dmg is 2d6 (Large sized feral creature) or 3d6 with improved natural weapon. So if I took the "beast stirke" feat (lets you add your unarmed strike damage to claw/slams) I'd be dealing 4d6+4d8+X per hit? Its their starting point for unarmed progression. Every single DM I have ever played with counted Natural weapons as both armed and unarmed attacks. Is it specifically coevered somewhere in 3.5? In 3.0 it was covered in Sword-n-Fist that natural attacks counted as having Imp. Unarmed Strike.

Would adding a monks belt (+5 monk lvls for unarmed dmg, or 1 step) raise that 4d8 to 6d8?

I know theres a feat in either Cwar or Cadv that lets you apply the enh bonus from armor to touch AC. But I can't remember the reqs for it. Would someone please post it?


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 28, 2008)

Are you allowing Book of 9 Swords?

There's some great stuff in there for stylish melee fighting...


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 28, 2008)

hehe you don't read at all do ya shay ;p My entire character is based out of ToB (which is 9 swords)


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 28, 2008)

Warlock epic feats I would like to take:

[sblock=Feats]
Epic Eldritch Blast [Epic]
Your eldritch blasts are unstoppably powerful.
Prerequisites: Eldritch blast 9d6.
Benefit: When you take this invocation, the damage dealt by your eldritch blast increases by 1d6.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Its effects stack.

Epic Extra Invocation [Epic]
You learn an additional invocation.
Prerequisites: Ability to use dark invocations, Spellcraft 24 ranks
Benefit: You can learn one additional invocation from the list available to you, including dark invocations.
Special: You can gain this feat multiple times. Each time, you gain an extra invocation of any grade (least, lesser, greater, or dark). 

Without them, an epic Warlock make no sense.

Optional:

Dark Transient [Epic]
Your powers of mobility are so potent that you can travel between dimensions with a thought.
Prerequisites: Knowledge (the planes) 24 ranks, fell flight, flee the scene, path of shadow.
Benefit: Your flight speed (from the fell flight invocation) increases by 30 feet and its maneuverability increases to perfect. Using this ability is part of the casting of the fell flight invocation.
You have achieved mastery over the powers of transdimensional travel. You can transport great distances with a single thought (as greater teleport, self and personal equipment only). You can also transport other creatures, but if you do, there is a chance of error (as teleport).Activating this ability requires a standard action.
You can use plane shift with perfect accuracy (self and personal equipment only). You can also transport other creatures, but you then suffer the inaccuracies normally incurred when using this spell. Activating this ability requires a standard action.

Allows really epic movement.


Shadowmaster [Epic]
You have walked the path of shadows, and now you have mastered its secrets.
Prerequisites: Spellcraft 24 ranks, beshadowed blast, dark discorporation, darkness, enervating shadow.
Benefit: You can create streaking masses of shadow around your form, providing you with a 50% miss chance against all attacks (as displacement). Activating this ability requires a standard action.
You can use material from the Plane of Shadows to create quasireal illusions, mimicking sorcerer and wizard conjuration spells of 8th level or lower (as shades). The illusions deal 80% damage to nonbelievers, and nondamaging effects are 80% likely to work against nonbelievers. Activating this ability requires a standard action.
You are immune to all spells with the shadow subtype and to effects that involve the use of shadows (such as the breath weapon of a shadow dragon). This is an extraordinary ability.

I just love the shadow theme.


Lord of All Essences [Epic]
You have mastered the art of enhancing your eldritch blast with multiple essences.
Prerequisites: One least, lesser, greater, and dark eldritch essence invocation, Spellcraft 24 ranks.
Benefit: When you use the eldritch blast ability, you can apply two eldritch essence invocations simultaneously. You could choose to fire an eldritch blast with both the repelling blast and noxious blast eldritch essences. This also allows you to apply the same effect twice, though this is not beneficial in the case of all eldritch essences. The effects of each essence are resolved separately. If you imbue your eldritch blast with two different types of damage, half of the damage (rounded down) is dealt by each source. You must choose which essences you will use in conjunction with your eldritch blast before you start your action. If you possess the Eldritch Sculptor feat, you can apply two eldritch essence invocations to both your eldritch blasts in a single round. Activating this ability is part of the action to use an eldritch blast.
For example, if Morthos is fighting an outsider he has never encountered, he can choose to imbue his eldritch blast with both hellrime blast and brimstone blast. He rolls 10d6 damage, dealing half fire and half cold damage. If the outsider happened to be immune to cold, but not fire, it would still take damage from the half that dealt fire damage.
In addition, the DC of all eldritch essence invocations you use increases by 2. This is an extraordinary ability.
Normal: A warlock can apply only one eldritch essence to an eldritch blast.

To keep up with epic weapons.[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 28, 2008)

I don't always read everyone's posts, especially when I'm furtively logging on from work. 

Thankee though.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 28, 2008)

Fiendish arms doesn't give you extra arms, they replace your existing arms.  
Hmm, they do give extra claw attacks, but I'd be willing to forgo those, I'm really just looking for the +8 strength.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 28, 2008)

that graft (+8 str) should cost 1,000,000 since it stacks with the enhancement bonus.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 28, 2008)

Ngh. Epic D&D: The Quest for More Bonuses.

Then again, I probably only complain because I'm bad at it. And my epic characters generally suffer as a result.


----------



## Nightbreeze (Apr 28, 2008)

That would seem quite a spectacular kind of game 

I have the concept of a plain human (well, at lvl 30 he is not plain at all, gosh).

Prince Kaoru Eraia, Chilling Wind and Head of the Avalanche
Samurai 1/ Monk 3/ Fighter 1/ Shou Disciple 5/ Iaijutsu Master 20

He is the flashy kind of character and fits perfectly for this kind of houserules, with a maddeding speed of action and thought, killing the enemies without even beeing seen moving. He can unleash a hell of pain. Think about Bleach (the fast ones), only worse.

Appearance and back ground:

[sblock]
Prince Kaoru Eraia iwas not born with the mark. So his parents were relieved that apparently, that blessig/curse appeared to have been lost. Thousands of years ago, infact, a true god had created a cursed sword for his mortal son, a sword that memorized every single moment, every single twitch, every single thought of whoever was wielding it...and at the end of his life, the sword bound his soul. It was called Karstoreia, but the meaning of this name is lost. And his son, who had the blood of the long lost god, the primordial elves and the elemental princes of wind, would take the sword and absorb all of it.

Eventually an avalanche was created...each son was better than his father. From the moment that he first touched the sword, till he was able to perfect the inner training, he quicjly grew in power, surpassing each swordmaster. But not only the mental skills were passed...the strength, the speed and the resistance of each wielder were stored and used to absorb the wounds of the new Head of the Avalanche.

A lone swordsman, however powerful, cannot be everywere, so eventually a great invasion from the Void Outside managed to bring down the primordial elves kingdom. After travelling to another plane, the few survivors just picked a huge empire, and overtook it with the lone strenght of the Avalanche Head. He married the (widowed) empress and took rule. The primordial elves became the true ruling elite, but they were few, and the Imperial priest managed to score a little revenge: over the space of some centuries, all primordial elves lost the capacity to procreate. And thus, only a trace of their blood was left, in the imperial famoly.

Of course, each and everyone of the Avalanche heads remembered this. They were mostly human, but the elven memories are dominant. Eventually, because of the marriages with humans, the bloodline became so thin that the sword didn't recognize the imperial princes. And thus, the bloodline was interrupted. One of the side effects of the imperial mythal, erected by the elves, was the no one was able to steal the Sword, and it presented itself to each prince or princes...but did not recognize them.


Until 10 years ago, sadly. Kaoru Eraia was the son of his Highness Edrenul Markos, the ninth son of the Emperor. He was a nice kid, although females used to hurt him with ease, creating bitterness and will to emerge. He showed promise, however, because he was able to overcome his inner bitterness and strive to do always better.

On a faithful day, however, in front of the astonished eyes of the court, the Sword appeared in front of the newborn first son of the Imperial Prince Maraku. It didn't recognize it, but Kaoru, curious, caressed the marvelous red hilt...and was immediately engulfed in a burst of red wind. His hair was immediately turned silvery, and his eyes as icy cold as a mountain lake. He shot a venomous look at the Imperial High Prelate and said "I see".

The entire court panicked, and the fact that he didn't reveal anything about his powers and his intentions was percieved as omen of peril. A few years would pass before Kaoru, 15th year old, returned from his isolation, wherever he was, and just took control of the capitol. His grandad, the Emperor, recognized him as the rightful heir, and that was the end of it. Just one show of his godly speed and strength was necessary to shut everybody's mouth.




Nowdays, Kaoru is a smiling arrogant young prick. As the Imperial Prince he is going to rule a huge empire. Most importantly, however, is that his power is unmatched by any creature known in the imperial lands, and rivals the strength of the most prominent world heroes, demigods and adventurers. He is a charming young man and nobleborn ladies flock to him (a cynic would say that they are attracted by his power, too). He intends to change the way that the empire works, but it seems that he has no haste to do that, waiting for the Emperor to peaceful pass away. In thruth, he is quite fond of his grandparents, and his mother (his father died two years ago, stuck by unknown sickness).

He had few witnessed fights over the last four years: one with the high prelate, who tried to poison him. Kaoru split the old man in two, and no one was able to see him moving. Afterwards, he unsheated his sword, and there was no blood on it. The next month, the servants of the palace found some bloodstains on the top of the column, 30 yards in the air. That is where the blood from the sword has flown. 

In truth, he is not only arrogant, but also tormented: during the night, all of the past memories return, and he is forced to revive each and every fight, dramatic and heartbreaking moment of the lives of his ancestors. In the long run, it becomes maddening, and he prefers to avoid sleeping more than two hours a day, [/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Apr 28, 2008)

btw, Vertex - 







> feral half ogre (SS p.116&217 LA+2) human, Swordsage13/Fighter4/Warblade2/Master of Nine5/bloodclaw Master2/Sorcerer1/Crusader1.



You better hope Albedo isn't using Multiclass xp penalty rules, or you have an 80% XP penalty (Your faoured class is barbarian, your highest is swordsage, you have 4 (fighter, warblade, sorceror, crusader) base classes that are not your favoured nor are they within 2 level of your highest.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 29, 2008)

Albedo, would rules and classes from the WoTC website be allowed?

Specifically this: Swiftblade.

And these: Kobold Paragon, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and Draconic Resevoir


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Would adding a monks belt (+5 monk lvls for unarmed dmg, or 1 step) raise that 4d8 to 6d8?




DMG page 208: THe damage for a monk's unarmed strike does not increase after 16th level


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 29, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> btw, Vertex -
> You better hope Albedo isn't using Multiclass xp penalty rules, or you have an 80% XP penalty (Your faoured class is barbarian, your highest is swordsage, you have 4 (fighter, warblade, sorceror, crusader) base classes that are not your favoured nor are they within 2 level of your highest.




Still human as well, and that says your first class becomes your favored class. And I'm thinking about dropping fighter down to 3, then there would be no xp penalty since all but favored class (swordsage) are within 2 lvls.


@ Avalon - um you can't even keep up to date with the 1 epic game we are in together now, and you want to get into another?


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

Half ogre isn't a template that's added to a base race, it's a race itself, like half-elf or half-orc.
Also technically half-ogres are giants and thus not applicable for the feral template.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 29, 2008)

I'll be updating all my games shortly Vertex69, I was just having a problem with accessong my books.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> His base claw dmg is 2d6 (Large sized feral creature) or 3d6 with improved natural weapon. So if I took the "beast stirke" feat (lets you add your unarmed strike damage to claw/slams) I'd be dealing 4d6+4d8+X per hit? Its their starting point for unarmed progression. Every single DM I have ever played with counted Natural weapons as both armed and unarmed attacks. Is it specifically coevered somewhere in 3.5? In 3.0 it was covered in Sword-n-Fist that natural attacks counted as having Imp. Unarmed Strike.
> 
> Would adding a monks belt (+5 monk lvls for unarmed dmg, or 1 step) raise that 4d8 to 6d8?
> 
> I know theres a feat in either Cwar or Cadv that lets you apply the enh bonus from armor to touch AC. But I can't remember the reqs for it. Would someone please post it?




k, your miss reading into what they count for. Saying a natural attack counts as improved unarm strike only applies to the idea that you don't take attack os opportunity or deal subduel damage, despite not having a weapon. You don't replace claw damage for unarmed strike damage, even if you are a monk for example (if it worked that way, that beast strike feat you commented on wouldn't make any sense at all). Heres the easy break down. Unarmed Strikes are Natural Attacks. Natural Attacks are NOT Unarmed Strikes. 

btw, you could theoretically improve your unarmed damage even further by taking improved natural weapon, which would apply after superior unarmed strike, though I cap the size increase to theoretical collosal (so you could take it 3 times, since you are already large).


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Fiendish arms doesn't give you extra arms, they replace your existing arms.
> Hmm, they do give extra claw attacks, but I'd be willing to forgo those, I'm really just looking for the +8 strength.




Jemal, Fiendish arms DO NOT replace limbs. They are the only graft in the FF that doesn't state they do, which is why they are outlawed.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Walking Dad: 
The first 2 feats, I have no problem with you taking, they are not overpowered in any ways shape or form, and they are pretty much the reason I didn't outright ban the concept of a those feats right off the bat. The other two I am sketchy on, but I have been thinking about warlocks today at work (where I do my best thinking ) and it occured to me that I don't actually mind the concept of the eldrich blast being considered a weapon for this camapaign, with a few stipulations. 

First off, if you were to use your Eldrich blast itself as a weapon, I would like you to redesign it to more of a natural attack than a spell, if you get my drift. Lets see if you can get creative with it. 

Second, I would need to restrict what things you could append to it. This goes towards that fourth feat you posted, Lord of All Essences [Epic]. I would allow this feat if you take your Eldrich blast as the way I suggest, but only if you don't use any invocations paired with your eldrich blast that cause any "save or" effects. Direct Damage only. If the save or is a minor effect, I may let it pass, but I will goe over your invocations you pick and see if any don't work. If I don't restrict them, you'll just be a full caster essentially, and I'm trying to shy away from that. 

Dark Transient is out. I just don't like that one, sorry.

Shadowmaster will only be allowed if you flat out promise I will never see you use the shadow conjuration ability in combat against anything other than mooks.

I hope this will make you character fit better in the setting. Let me know what you think.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Albedo, would rules and classes from the WoTC website be allowed?
> 
> Specifically this: Swiftblade.
> 
> And these: Kobold Paragon, Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and Draconic Resevoir




Sorry, no swiftblade.

Kobold Paragon is alright with me.

Greater Draconic Rite of Passage and Draconic Resevoir is a no. I don't like the idea of a 1,000gp cost level essentially. I know thats not exactly what it is, but its too close for me to allow it.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Ok guys, character concepts are coming along great. Keep at it, and I'll probably get a chance to read thru all the posted material in a few days time.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Still human as well, and that says your first class becomes your favored class. And I'm thinking about dropping fighter down to 3, then there would be no xp penalty since all but favored class (swordsage) are within 2 lvls.




Just to let you know, a humans favored class is its highest level class, not its first one.


----------



## Dire Lemming (Apr 29, 2008)

Hm, this game sounds like Dynasty Warriors.  Very cool.  No way I could put together a 30th level character sheet in less than that many days.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 29, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Half ogre isn't a template that's added to a base race, it's a race itself, like half-elf or half-orc.
> Also technically half-ogres are giants and thus not applicable for the feral template.



Its a template on crystalkeep, +1 LA gains giant subtype but keeps original type too. And the Half-ogre race from SS is humanoid with the "giant blood" subtype not a giant, like the dragonblooded subtype your spellscale has


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

Savage Species is the Wizards version, and I was under the impression that Albedo was only allowing wizards sources.  

Also, the half-ogre race doesn't specify a racial type(Least not in my book), I was just going off the 'gaint blooded: For all purposes relating to race half-ogres are considered giants"


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 29, 2008)

IIRC, the latest version of the half-ogre is now a race found in the Races of Destiny book.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

Avalon - Huh, so it is.  I just checked, and there are a couple minor differences. 
Races of destiny is exact same as the half ogre in the Savage species excepting: 
It clarify's that the creature type is Giant, and the Level adjustment is listed as +2.

Guess it all depends on which version Albedo decides to use.


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 29, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> Walking Dad: [sblock]
> The first 2 feats, I have no problem with you taking, they are not overpowered in any ways shape or form, and they are pretty much the reason I didn't outright ban the concept of a those feats right off the bat. The other two I am sketchy on, but I have been thinking about warlocks today at work (where I do my best thinking ) and it occured to me that I don't actually mind the concept of the eldrich blast being considered a weapon for this camapaign, with a few stipulations.
> 
> First off, if you were to use your Eldrich blast itself as a weapon, I would like you to redesign it to more of a natural attack than a spell, if you get my drift. Lets see if you can get creative with it.
> ...




I wanted to redesign the eldritch blast more like a "soul weapon" (Think abit like Inferno or better the green guy in "Soul Calibur (PS2)"). Normally atting with it like a glaive, short haftening for hidious blow and throwin or crcling it for eldritch line / doom. I wanted to pair vitriolic blast with utterdark blast (we could make it deal only damage ones, but requiring a save versus the level drain).

You get my promise to use Shadowmaster only for fluff and combat versus mooks.

I would play a human with the dark creature template from tome of magic.

Work in progress:

Dark Human Warlock 29 / Ex-Monk 1 (ECL 30)
(Template gained through Collar of Dark Meatamorphosis (22,000 gp)

[sblock]Abilities:

Concentration
Spellcraft
Use Magic Device
Hide
Move Silently


Feats:
H Able Learner (Races of Destiny)
1 Combat Reflexes
3 Dark Stalker (Lords of Madness)
6 Extra Invocation
9 Extra Invocation
12 Extra Invocation
15 Extra Invocation
18 Extra Invocation

21 Epic Extra Invocation
24 Lord of all Essences
27 Shadowmaster
30 Epic Extra Invocation

Warlock Bonus Feats:
23 Superior Intiative
26 Energy Resistance
29 Fast Healing

Least 3 (+2)
Darkness
Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic p. 82)
Hammer Blast (Comp Mage p. 124)
Devil Sight
Entropic Warding

Lesser 3 (+3)
Beshadowed Blast
Ignore the Pyre (Dragon Magic p. 82)
Relentless Dispelling (Comp Mage p. 124)
Fell Flight
Flee the Scene
Voidsense

Greater 3
Enervating Shadows
Vitrolic Blast
Nightmares made real (Comp Mage p. 124)

Dark 3 (+2)
Dark Discorporation
Binding Blast  (Comp Mage p. 123)
Caster's Lament (Comp Mage p. 123)
Path of Shadow
Eldritch Doom[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

Hmm, I'm thinking that Whin is a bit much of a caster for this campaign.  I do have a few other options, I'll work up something without a caster level.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 29, 2008)

@ Walking Dad:

You could add another class level to your character there if you buy the Dark template as an item. Check out the collar of umbral metamorphosis in the Tome of Magic book.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 29, 2008)

Albedo,

Would this character do?

Hexblade 4/ Paladin of Tyranny 4/ Binder 15/ Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/ Arcane Duelist 2


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 29, 2008)

I'm thinking perhaps:

Scout 20, Beastmaster 10

I seem to recall there's a feat that adds 5' to the distance you can "step" as in a 5' step. Letting you step 10' and still make a full attack. I'll have to dig it up, but if it exists would it be allowed? I can't see it being any worse than the Feral template for a mere +1 ECL (gee...that or Tiefling? I wonder... ), or Half Ogre for +2 (which seems the reasonable one, since Races of Destiny is the only 3.5 source listed I believe). Basically, it would let me take advantage of being a 2 weapon fighter, but still give me the skirmish bonus.

If not, that's cool too.

With the Natural Bond feat, this character would have a 16th level 'primary' animal companion...probably an advanced Dire Wolf.

I might add some Ranger into the mix...but I like the scout abilities...hate to lose 'em.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 29, 2008)

Shayuri,

You could use that feat that allows you to stack levels of scout and ranger for determining levels of skirmish and favored enemy.

Also, the 10' step is not a feat but an item. It's called sparring dummy of the master or something like that. It's found in the Arms and Equipment Guide.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 29, 2008)

Really? Poot.

Not only is it a 3.0 source, but it seems kind of silly for an item. Seems much more featish!

Ah well. It was a cool idea. There are others though...oh yes. There are always others...

Oh, also, I'm aware of the ranger/scout stacker feat, but I like the high-end class features of the scout a lot. Blindsight, freedom of movement, etc... Hate to lose 'em. Still, the calculus of class levels is not yet complete. It may well swing that way...


----------



## Walking Dad (Apr 29, 2008)

There is also a stance in Tomb of battle that allows you top make a second 5 foot step in a round.
It would cost 3 Feats (2 White Raven Maneuvers and one Stance) or one level multiclassing into Warblade or Crusader.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 29, 2008)

ReeHEElly?

Now THAT might be worth taking a long hard gander at...

Thanks!


----------



## Albedo (Apr 29, 2008)

Shayuri

I don't know if you have access to it, but the Abolisher class from Lords of Madness is the only class I have ever seen that increases the level of ALL the beastmaster animal companions.


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 29, 2008)

All this knitpicking over the half-ogre TEMPLATE part of a concept that "THE DM HAS ALREADY SAID WAS OK" is really pissing me off, so I'm going a different direction.

[sblock=DM only]I would like to know the LA for the "Monster of Legend" template. 

the "Monster of Legend" template is just good stat bonuses, +3 save bonus, a minor special attack, and 2 moderate special qualities. I'd be choosing 5th caster lvl, greater natural attack and immunities (acid & mind effecting).  As a basis for comparison it only has a CR mod of +2 while the feral template (LA+1) has a CR mod of +4. (I personally consider this 
on the same lvl as the half celestial/fiend templates. Except that I have to choose between  Immunities, dmg reduction, darkvision or spell resistance instead of getting them all and only minor spell casting instead of huge spells at higher HD. Plus no wings or resistances, for  better stats.)

My base race is human with the feral template making him a monstrous humanoid. So that my class combo (give or take a couple levels) would still work.

On another topic, can we purchase permenant spell effects?[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 29, 2008)

Vertexx, buddy! If the GM says it's okay, it's okay.

It's no skin off my nose.


----------



## Jemal (Apr 29, 2008)

Dude, there's no point in taking something like this personally.  If you've allready spoken to the DM seperately and he's ok'd it, maybe you should've stated that earlier, I just hadn't seen such a statement in the thread.

As Epic games are a lot of work for the players, they're even MORE so for the DM, he has to look at and keep track of a lot of things, thus the other players in the game will usually step in and point out any inconsistancies they see, which is precisely what I did.  I still don't understand where you're getting the template part from, as it's a Race in both Savage Species and Races of Destiny, and the DM had stated he's only allowing hardcover sources (Cystalkeep references Dragon Magazine #313, which is the only other version of half-ogre i'm aware of, but I don't have access to the mag, and it isn't hardcover), 
But all that is moot if the DM's allready said OK, so like I said earlier, why wouldn't you just have told us 'he said it's ok' instead of getting ticked off?


----------



## Vertexx69 (Apr 30, 2008)

Aha thats what he meant by wizard sources, I thought he was talking about spellcasting classes for some reason not WotC (maybe because I saw the post at 2am). So lets drop all this like its hot and move on. But I tend to take any endevor I put more than a few hours into as personal. So please try to just shine me on if I get uppity, as I'll tend to get very evil if I don't vent.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 30, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Albedo,
> 
> Would this character be ok?
> 
> Hexblade 4/ Paladin of Tyranny 4/ Binder 15/ Knight of the Sacred Seal 5/ Arcane Duelist 2




And again...


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 30, 2008)

Shayuri,

I just found out from reading some threads that the OA has an option for tumble that allows you to take a 10' step instead of a 5' one if you can achieve a DC 40 tumble check.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 30, 2008)

Hmm...what's the OA? Oriental Adventures is 3.0 isn't it? Would that rule apply here?

That'd be a GM call, I suppose...


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 30, 2008)

Albedo,

If the character I mentioned above is not to your liking, I've got something else but I want to know if the Eternal Blade prestige class is fine with you.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 30, 2008)

Avalon:

Go back and give me a book and page numbers on all those classes please. I've been holding off on oking your concept cause I don't have time to track all that down.

Vertexx:

[sblock=Vertexx] 
Ok I hate to say it, but Monster of Legend does not compare in any way shape or form to Feral, or to Half Fiendish/Celestial. Some of the abilities may come close, but some of the other abiltities you can choose are way overpowered, like the 5 levels in spell casting you are going for. The finishing blow is that fact that its stats get +34 points with no negatives. I'm not going to allow it, sorry.

Permanent spell effects (and I'm assuming your talking about the Permancy spell chart in the PHB) are fine with me, just let me know what things you want ahead of time please.
[/sblock]

Nightbreeze:
I notice you took Iaijutsu Master 20, when its only a 10 level class. Just to save you from asking, I am not allowing the epic variant from the wizards boards. If you want an epic version, I'd say the progression would just be a bonus epic feat every 3 levels.

Walking Dad:
No negetive level stuff please. That would be pushing you back into the realm of a caster.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 30, 2008)

Hexblade - Complete Warrior p. 6
Paladin of Tyranny - from Unearthed Arcana. Can be found here. 
Binder - Tome of Magic p. 9
Knight of the Sacred Seal - Tome of Magic p.55
Arcane Duelist - Here. 
Eternal Blade - Tome of Battle p. 110


----------



## Albedo (Apr 30, 2008)

All: Ok, lots of people are going for concepts that don't quite fit in the box, if you know what I mean. But, this is a campaign where everyone should feel special, so I'm going to allow each character a specialty to help make their characters fit their concepts.

Vertexx: I'll allow you to take Half-Oger with no LA as a base race, or as a +1 LA as a template that can be added to human.

Walking Dad: I think I've already covered yours in allowing you eldrich blast to be considered a weapon for the purposes of this campaign.

That leaves Shayuri, Avalon, Jemal, and Nightbreeze. Let me know what kind of things you want.


----------



## Avalon® (Apr 30, 2008)

Albedo,

Are we going to work as a team or do we start off solo?

I'll be making either an uber-debuffer/charger or a two-weapon fighter/charger.

For the two-weapon fighter/charger, I'll also be using the Warblade from Tome of Battle p. 21 and the Revenant Blade from Player's Guide to Eberron p. 142.

Also, I was wondering if we can take regional feats?


----------



## Albedo (Apr 30, 2008)

Avalon: Alrighty, I checked everything over. 

First off, no Arcane Duelist.

Secondly, all the other classes you brought up are fine with me, though I'm not up to speed on the binder enough to say how well it will fit into this setting.


----------



## Nightbreeze (Apr 30, 2008)

Well, I have to say that I was moving away from Iaijutsu master 20 anyway. After the first cool ability (the strike that no one notices), it offers almost nothing. And to say the truth,  aside from Overwhelming Critical, Devastating Critical and Superior Initiative, I don't know what other epic feats I could take (any suggestion here?)

I need a ruling over the Iaijutsu skill: it states that bonus dices are given "when you strike a flat footed opponent after unsheating the blade". Does that mean that even if I were able to make full round attack against a flat footed opponent, I can do only one iajutsu? It would be arguably broken (i add 230 or so bonus damage when I have the iaijutsu).

Another question: could you clarify the 90pt build, one on one basis? Does that mean that I always spend one point to raise a skill, or what? If so, it is possible to have 18 in all of them, spening 60 pts...and the other 30 pts?



As for the special thing...I don't know. I am thinking about rebuildin it as a Samurai 1/ Monk 6/ Shou disciple 5/ Iaijutsu Master 10 / ??? 8.

I think I'll be developing it a little bit more before asking for the boon. My estimate is that I will have a hell of an AC (with improved combat expertise, could push it to 90 with the previous) , but a low damage output, except in the first strike. However, with speed I'll have 4 attacks at the highest attack bonus ( +2 with martial flurry, +1 with speed).

Bah...may as well end up with asking something flavorfull.


----------



## Albedo (Apr 30, 2008)

Nightbreeze:

Iaijutsu only works off of the first hit when your opponent is flatfooted, unless you draw a new weapon each attack.

You're doing the 90 point thing a little off. 90 points is the total all your stats need to add up to when you are done. I.E., you could have 4 18s, a 10, and  an 8.

Epic Toughness is great in this system, and Dire Charge isn't too shabby either. Blinding Speed is good since it has no activation time for haste, and Epic Run is pretty fun too. Fast Heal is one of my favorites.

Avalon:
Sorry, I missed your post, you slipped it in while I was updating ;p

Regional Feats are fine.

You guys are writing your own starts, I'm just placing you all in a single location (the classic tavern scene). As such, you can know each other, or not know each other. Up to you guys.


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 1, 2008)

Ok then, reworked it is something like this: (using Cobra Strike fighting style variant from the monk, it changes the bonus feats. If it is not allowed, I'll spend my "coolness" bonus for it).

Monk 7/ Shou Disciple 5/ Fighter 4/ Swashbuckler 4/Iaijutsu Master 10

[sblock=feat tree]
1) [Imp. unarmed strike], [Dodge], Weapon focus(unarmed strike), Imp. Initiative
2) [Mobility]
3) Quick Draw
4) 
5)
6) [Spring Attack], Exotic Weapon (Katana)
7)
8)
9) Weapon Focus (Katana), [Cleave]
10)
11) [Imp. Cleave]
12) Imp. Critical (Katana)
13) [Power Attack]
14) [Elusive Target]
15) Improved Bull Rush
16) [Shock Trooper]
17) [Weapon Finesse]
18) Combat Expertise
19) 
20)
21) Superior Initiative, [Weapon Finesse (Katana)]
22) 
23) 
24) Devastating Critical, [Improved Combat Expertise]
25) 
26) 
27) Overwhelming Critical
28) 
29) [?]
30) Dire Charge
[/sblock] 

It's kinda messy, as I have many bonus feats, some freely chose and some not, from different classes. Anyway, this is the general idea.


Hm....draw a new weapon, huh? Let's see, martial flurry allows me to do flurry with any martial weapon, and with any arm. So, I have 7 attacks and 7 katanas: the primary one and the others. I charge, draw the primary katana and strike (one-handed). Then it stays in my hand, while I draw with the other hand the other katanas, strike, and drop them. Drawing and dropping a weapon are supposed to be free actions, not swift ones.

That sure looks cinematic....the master of the seven swords


----------



## Avalon® (May 1, 2008)

Albedo,

I'm mainly working with material from Eberron but I want this regional feat from Unapproachable East. Do I still have to qualify for it's regional requirement or can we just treat it as a general feat instead?


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 1, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> [sblock=Vertexx]
> Ok I hate to say it, but Monster of Legend does not compare in any way shape or form to Feral, or to Half Fiendish/Celestial. Some of the abilities may come close, but some of the other abiltities you can choose are way overpowered, like the 5 levels in spell casting you are going for. The finishing blow is that fact that its stats get +34 points with no negatives. I'm not going to allow it, sorry.
> 
> Permanent spell effects (and I'm assuming your talking about the Permancy spell chart in the PHB) are fine with me, just let me know what things you want ahead of time please.
> [/sblock]




[sblock=DM]It's ok if you don't want to let me use it. Though the half celestial gives +20 points with no negatives. And personally I think the ability to cast 10 spells at lvls 1-3 vs 10 spelllike abilities that range from lvl 1-9 is a step down. The 14 extra stat points are a trade off for the double flight speed the 3 +10 resistances and the spell resistance. 

I was looking at 2 permanant spell effects from savage species. Girrallon's Blessing to give 3 extra sets of arms (but no extra attacks), and the Fuse arms spell to to combine them all back together giving me a grand total of my 2 original arms and a +12 strength bonus. 2700X4 at 30th caster lvl for the spells plus 15000 for the xp cost.

And I'll go ahead and use the +1 LA for adding the WotC version of half ogre as a template to my feral human, thanks 

Would the weapon Enhancements Greater Dispelling (3/day) & Spellblade (Players Guide to Faerhun) be ok? Spellblade: pick 1 spell when its created, whenever that spell is cast at you the weapon absorbs it and the next round you can release it back at the caster or let it drain harmlessly away.

And you were mentioning being able to take improved natural attack for the same attack several times depending on size? So as large size I could take it 3-4 times? 

If I took Epic two weapon rend, would it:
A add base weapon dmg +1.5 str to my existing rend, for a total of 3X base weapon dmg +3.5X str.
B Give me a 2nd rend per round at stated stats.
C replace existing rend.

Could I buy the 3.0 version of Skin of the Hero? Gives +3 Luck bonus to hit/AC/Saves for 63k. The 3.5 version is completely useless.[/sblock]


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 1, 2008)

Nightbreeze said:
			
		

> That sure looks cinematic....the master of the seven swords



Haha my character is the master of nine and attacks with his claws maybe he should only have 9 fingers ;p


----------



## Shayuri (May 1, 2008)

Hee...still here. Sorry for being quiet. Busy couple of days, and I have two ideas competing.

One is a ninja/tempest/something else who uses two swords and sudden strikes to appear, do damage, then blip out.

The other is a scout who focuses on vicious skirmishing spring attacks.

Combatwise, that is.

My RP and backgrounds are sketchier, since I don't know much about the game premise yet.


----------



## Avalon® (May 1, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> Secondly, all the other classes you brought up are fine with me, though I'm not up to speed on the binder enough to say how well it will fit into this setting.




If he's the one I'm going to play then he'll be an uber-debuffer with most enemies getting at least a -6 on their saves and he'll also be really durable to anything that provokes saves (especially from spells)


----------



## Jemal (May 1, 2008)

*Disregard*


----------



## Jemal (May 1, 2008)

OK, new concept: 
[sblock=DM]
Ever heard of Forsaker, from Masters of the Wild?  I wanna try and play a Forsaker w/Vow of Poverty.  It's something I've been thinking of off & on for a while, so I figured I might as well ask.

If you do say yes, there would be a couple questions I'd have: 
The Forsaker's +1/lvl ability mod stats it's inherent, however inherent bonuses max at +5, and for a class that can't gain ability mod items, that prevents a very epic problem... Would you allow the level up stat mods to exceed the normal inherent +5 max?
[/sblock]


----------



## Avalon® (May 2, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Albedo,
> 
> I'm mainly working with material from Eberron but I want this regional feat from Unapproachable East. Do I still have to qualify for it's regional requirement or can we just treat it as a general feat instead?




Still haven't recieved an answer for this.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 2, 2008)

I have several build questions I need the DM to address as well. I hope that yet another epic game hasn't died a crib death here.


----------



## Albedo (May 3, 2008)

Avalon: You don't have to be from any area to take regional feats, but all other restrictions apply.

Jemal:
[sblock=Jemal] 
I'll let you try the forsaker concept. I'll even give you a further bonus and say the stat increase is an unnamed bonus.
[/sblock]

Vertexx:
[sblock]
I haven't answered for awhile cause my savage species hasn't come back to me yet, and I can't answer on the permanent spell effects since I didn't know what they are. However, I already told you that if its a spell and its not on the Permancy list, you can't permancy it, so I figured you would know the answer already.

The Epic Rend replaces current rend.

I'm not allowing Spellblade.

You can take imp nat attack 3 times since you started large.

I'm saying no to the 3.0 item. sorry.

And lastly, stat increase are valued MUCH more than special abilities when it comes to LA, and having a specific list of spelllike abilities is much lower in value than a general spellcasting ability, especially since spell like abilities don't make prereques for anything, and your casting makes the divine casting prereques for almost every divine prestige class out there. And I am curious where you get the 10 spells, considering bonus spells from wisdom. Flight isn't that hard to get, and isn't rare, and honestly barely factors into LA (prolly a +1 at most). Either way, it appears we value the abilities gained from Monster of Legend and Helf-Celestial a bit differently, so I'm just gonna call this a closed issue. Doesn't matter anymore.

[/sblock]

k guys, the characters are certainly coming to light. I would like to see some more numerical work done on them though, so start posting rough drafts please.


----------



## Albedo (May 3, 2008)

And one more thing guys. BOOK AND PAGE NUMBERS PLEASE!!! I'm serious. You're already reading it. Just take one second to note the number rather than making me search for it. I'll be able to post more frequently if its 10 minutes of answering questions rather than 1 hour of searching.


----------



## Avalon® (May 3, 2008)

Albedo, I'd like to move forward with my Binder concept.

Would you allow it's epic progression, epic feats and epic vestiges found here?


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 3, 2008)

[sblock=spoiler stat block]Prontius Olfar

Feral Half-Ogre: 
Swordsage7/Fighter2/Swordsage6/Bloodclaw Master2/Warblade2/Crusader3/Wizard1/Master of Nine5

Large Monstrous Humanoid, giantblooded
Hit Dice: (8+4d12+5D10+17D8+1d4+280)X5 (2295)
Initiative: 14 (+3, +4 Imp Init, +7 Dex)
Speed: 1200 ft. / 4500 ft. fly (good)/climb 15 ft.

Adjusted Abilities: (base+racial+inherent+enhancement+level)
Str: 50/+20 (14+10+4+10+12)
Dex: 26/+8 (18-4+5+6+1)
Con: 30/+10 (16+4+4+6)
Int: 20/+5 (16-6+4+6)
Wis: 40/+15 (18+2+4+10+6)
Cha: 16/+3 (8-2+4+6)

Saves: (Sworsage13+Fighter2+BcM2+Warblade2+Crusader1+ability+enh+epic)
Fortitude: 34 (4+3+3+3+2+10+5+4)
Reflex: 30 (8+0+3+0+0+7+5+4+5)
Will: 35 (8+0+0+0+15+5+4+3)

Armor Class: 70 (10 Base, +8 Dex, +15 Wis, +15 Natural, +10 Armor,
+5 Defense, +7 Deflection, +1 insight, -1 size) Touch 45, FF --

Base Attack/Grapple: +20/+39

Attack Total: BaB.+20, Str.+20, Enh.+ 7, WF+1, Size-1 = +48 melee (+50 with strike)

Attack 

Full Attack 

Space/Reach: 10ft/10ft

Special Attacks:
Improved Grab
Pounce
Rake
Rend

Special Qualities:
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge
Spell Resistance 37
Damage Reduction 15/Adamantine 
Immunity to gases, critical hits, energy drain
Resistance +30 to fire, cold, electricity, sonic, acid
Low-light vision
Darkvision 120ft
TP w/o error (up to 60ft) 3/day
Fast Healing 5
Targeted Greater Dispelling as free action on hit with claw 3/day (15th caster lvl)
All attacks considered Ghost Touch
Haste (20 round duration) 3/day

[sblock=ToB]Swordsage:
Quick to act +3
Discipline Focus:
	Weapon focus-Tiger Claw
	Insightful Strike-Diamond Mind
	Defensive Stance-Desert Wind
_Manuevers Known:_
Distracting Ember-DW1-
Monent of Perfect Mind-DM1-
Counter Charge-SS1-
Wolf Fang Strike-TC1-
Sudden Leap-TC2-
Saphire Nightmare Blade-DM2-
Shadow Blade Technique-SH1-
Fire Riposte-DW2-
Mountain Hammer-SD1-
Mind Over Body-DM3-
Zephyr Dance-DW3-
Death from Above-TG3-
Pouncing Charge-TG4-
Shadow Stride-SH2-
Moment of Alacrity-DM4-
Irresistible Mountain Strike-SD2-
Shadow Blink-SH3-
Inferno Blade-DW4-
_Stances:_
Flames Blessing
Hunter’s Sense
Step of the Wind
Assassin’s Stance

Bloodclaw Master:
Claws of the beast
Superior 2 Weapon Fighting
Tigerclaw Synergy
_Manuevers Known:_
Swooping Dragon Strike-TG5-

Crusader: 
Steely Resolve 5
Furious Counterstrike
Indomitable Soul
Zealous Surge
_Manuevers Known:_
Martial Spirit-DS1-
Tide of Chaos-DS2-
Daunting Strike-DS3-
Leading the Attack-WR1-
White Raven Tactics-WR2-
Battle Leader’s Charge-WR3-
_Stances:_
Martial Spirit
Aura of Chaos

Warblade:
Battle Clarity
Weapon Aptitude
_Manuevers Known:_
Steel Wind-IH1-
Iron Heart Surge-IH2-
Iron Heart Focus-IH3-
Lightning Recovery-IH4-
_Stances:_
Punishing Stance

Master of Nine:
Dual Stance
Perfect Form
Counter Stance
Master of Nine
_Manuevers Known:_
Wyrm’s Flame-DW5-
Raging Mongoose-TG6-
Feral Death Blow-TG7-
Time Stands Still-DM-
Strike of Perfect Clarity-IH-5-
Strike of Righteous Vitality-DS4-
Inferno Blast-DW6-
Diamond Defense-DM6-
White Raven Hammer-WR4-
War Master’s Charge-WR5-
_Stances:_
Aura of Perfect Order
Stance of Alacrity

Standard Readied Manuevers (Cr5/Wb3/Ss14)
War Master’s Charge(s), Irresistible Mountain Strike(s), Tide of Chaos(s), Strike of Righteous Vitality(s)
Iron Heart Surge, Strike of Perfect Clarity(s), Lightning Recovery(c)
Inferno Blast(s) X3, Time Stands Still(s) X3 , Feral Death Blow(s), Diamond Defense(c), Counter Charge(c), Shadow Blink(t), Inferno Blade(b) X2, Raging Mongoose(b) X2
Spells cast: 4/3[/sblock]

Spells Known: Blood Wind, Raging Flame, Cold Fire, Shield

Feats:
1 Improved Initiative
-- Two Weapon Fighting (bonus Human)
3 Blindfight
6 Improved Natural Attack (claw) 3d6
-- Improved Two Weapon Fighting (bonus Fighter)
9 Desert Wind Dodge (ToB p.29)
-- Improved Natural Attack (claw) (bonus fighter) 4d6
12 Adaptive Style (ToB p.29)
15 Improved Natural Attack (claw) 6d6
18 Greater Two Weapon Fighting
21 Perfect Two Weapon Fighting
24 Extra Item slot (ring)
27 Diving Charge (RotW p.153)

Items: 10 mil
+9 Sure Striking Adamantine Beastclaws of Martial Discipline (TigC, DevoS, DiaM) w/parrying, greater dispelling (PGF p.119),  brutal surge (DMGII p.255), Blindsighted, storing, rust, +10 strength 5,033,060g 
Lesser Trudeath Crystal 5000g (MIC p.?)
 (held in storage glove)
     Rod of Invulnerability 600,000g
-----
+5 soulfire (BoED p.112) Mithral Celestial armor of the Twilight 127,200g
+5 Adamantine Armor Spikes of defense 77,350g
Stat Books: 694,000g
Temporal Acceleration Open-Toed Heavy Boots of Swiftness 320,800g
Major Counterspelling (GD) Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance and Freedom of Movement 374,000g
Counterspelling (GD) Ring of Deflection +7 986,000g
Sequestering Ring of Counterspelling (GD) Solar Wings (BoED p.115) 471,000g
Vambraces of Evil’s Warding (BoED p.116) 18,000g
Adaptation Amulet of Wisdom +10 1,013,500g
Daazzix’s Vest (DMGII p.267) of Health +6,  with 1st lvl pearl of power X10 83,500g
Comprehension Tricorn of Intellect +6 43,700g
+6 Charismatic Topcoat of 2nd Chances (DMGII p.269) 45,000
Permanent Spells: Girallon’s Blessing, Fuse Arms 27,800g
Psionic Tatoos: Claws of the Vampire X10, Greater Concealing Amorpha X5, Touchsight X5 15,000g
Hewards HH 1800g
Portable Hole 9000g
Wand of Shield 750g
Belt of Battle 8000g
Potions: Resto L X20, Heroism X10 4,000g
37,040g

Skills: (rank+ability+racial+competence+enhancement+luck)+synergy
217 skill points (Sworsage116/ fighter 6/ Bloodclaw 10/ Warblade 14/Crusader 21/ Wizard 5/ Master 45)

Jump (Str) +520 (10+20+20+468)+2
Hide (Dex) + (10+8+20+40)
Move Silently (Dex) +13 (5
Tumble (Dex) +61 (31+8+20)+2
Search (Int) +12
Survival (Wis) +20
Listen (Wis) +25
Spot (Wis) +25
Intimidate (Cha) +13
Spellcraft (Int) +10
Bluff (Cha) +8
Sense Motive (Cha) +34
Diplomacy (Cha) +8
Gather Information (Cha) +8
Knowledge Dungeoneering (Int) +10
Knowledge Arcana (Int) +10
Knowledge Religion (Int) +10
Knowledge Nature (Int) +10
Knowledge Planes (Int) +10
Knowledge Local (Int) +10
Knowledge Nobility&Royalty (Int) +10
Martial Lore (Int) +10
Proffession Sailor (Wis) +20
Use Magic Device (cha) +10[/sblock]


----------



## Walking Dad (May 3, 2008)

Are my feats and invocations in this post are fine?

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4193288&postcount=38
(The Invocations are in the short lists in Comp Arcane & Complete Mage)


----------



## Jemal (May 3, 2008)

which book is spellblade from?  If it's the class I'm thinking, I don't think it's the 1 spell immunity most DM's fear.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 3, 2008)

Its from the Players Guide to Faerhun but I found it on crystalkeep.


----------



## Albedo (May 3, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> Are my feats and invocations in this post are fine?
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4193288&postcount=38
> (The Invocations are in the short lists in Comp Arcane & Complete Mage)




k, I don't know where some of these invokations you got are from. I can't approve them until I find them, hence, book and page numbers please.


----------



## Albedo (May 3, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Albedo, I'd like to move forward with my Binder concept.
> 
> Would you allow it's epic progression, epic feats and epic vestiges found here?




I can't read any of that info, I don't have a d&d insider account.


----------



## Albedo (May 3, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> There is another Permanency list in Savage Species (p.60) that adds 20 extra spells presented there to the existing list.




Now we are getting somewhere. Since there is  list I will allow it. This is why the page numbers thing is important. I might not be able to find specific pieces of relevant data. Thanks for the update.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 3, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> I can't read any of that info, I don't have a d&d insider account.



Just click on the print version or add "&authentic=true" to the address.


----------



## Jemal (May 3, 2008)

Allright, First draft of Bodin, the Exalted redeemed villain: 
[sblock=Bodin]
Bodin'al, "The Wrath of Purity" 
Human Male Barbarian1/Fighter1/Cleric1/Forsaker15/Frenzied Berserker 10/Monk2
{LVL 20: Barbarian1/Fighter1/Cleric1/Forsaker10/Frenzied Berserker 7}
AL: Neutral Good HT: 5'8" WT: 150  Hair: Silver Dreadlocks  Eyes: Red

STR: 30 (+10) [17 base +5 inherent +8 enhancement]
DEX:  28 (+9) [17 base +5 inherent +6 enhancement]
CON: 34 (+12) [18 base +5 inherent + 10 enhancement + 1 level]
INT: 20 (+5) [11 base +5 inherent +4 enhancement]
WIS: 56 (+23) [18 base +5 inherent +15 Forsaker + 6 level + 12 enhancement]
CHA: 16 (+5) [9 base +5 inherent +2 enhancement]

HP: 2977 (21d12+1d10+3d8+(3d12X2)+324x5) 

AC: 77 (10 base + 9 dex + 23 wis + 5 deflection +16 natural armour + 14 armour)
FF: 68  Touch: 47
Saves: 
FORT: +42 (18 base +12 con +5 resist +2 feat +5 epic)  
REF: +26 (5 base +9 dex +5 resist +2 feat +5 epic) 
WILL: +46 (11 base +23 wis +5 resist +2 feat +5 epic)
Speed:  60/120 fly (X15=900/1800 fly)
Init: +9

Bab: 19 (+5 epic)
Attacks: 19 base +5 epic + 23 Wis+8 Exalted=55
Staff: 55/50/45/40;  1d6+23
Frenzy: +60/60/55/50/45; 1d6+30
Rage/Frenzy: 62/62/57/52/47; 1d6+33
Power atack: -1atk/+4damage (Max -19/+76)
Leap Attack: X3 power attack damage on charge. (-1 atk=+12, Max-19/+228)
Flurry: -2, 1 extra attack
Full Leaping Power Attack Rage/Frenzy: +45, 1d6+261

Skills(Total/Ranks):[154 Points/Max rank 33] 
Tumble (+34/25), Sense Motive(+56/33), Spot(+56/33), 63 more points

*-2 charisma checks (-6 from grafts,+2 from nymph's kiss, +2 Nimbus of Light)

Feats: [8]  Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Leap Attack, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty(lvl 18), 

Exalted: [6] Nymph's Kiss(+13 skill points), Intuitive Attack, Righteous Wrath, Nimbus of Light, 1 more

Epic Feats: [5] Fast Heal, Spectral Strike, 3 more

Bonus Feats: Stunning Fist[Fort  DC 50, 8/day](Monk), Deflect arrows(Monk), Lightning Reflexes(Cleric), Power Attack(Fighter)

Special Features: Domains (Drow, Pride), Rage 1/day, Frenzy 5/day, Tough defense(con to ac), SR 26, Slippery mind, Natural Weapon(Weapon wielded overcomes DR: Good, Evil, Magic, Epic), Exalted AC bonus(+14), Exalted Strike(+8), Deflection(+5), Resistance(+5), DR 15/Evil, Natural Armour (Con mod +4=16) , Endure Elements, Greater Sustenance (No need to eat, drink, or breath), Mind Shielding, Freedom of Movement, True Seeing, Energy Resistance 25(Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic), 6 Bonus Exalted feats, Turn Undead (8/day), Rage(1/day), Fast Move, Supreme Power Attack, Greater Frenzy(5/day), Tireless Frenzy, Deathless Frenzy, Inspire Frenzy(3/day), Diehard

Languages: Common

Equipment: None/Special(see below)
Before he joined the ranks of the virtuous, Bodin was a powerful servant of evil, and was bestowed fiendish grafts as gifts from his demonic overlords.  He now uses the powers granted by these to fight against the evil, and every day fights an internal battle against the evils within him.  Also, prior to taking the Vow of Poverty, he read one of each +5 tome.

Read Books: Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis+5 
Received Fiendish Grafts: 
2X Fast Legs (+20 Movement)
Membranous Wings (Fly at double land speed, fire/cold resist 10)
Fiendish Skin (+1 natural armour)[/sblock]


----------



## Avalon® (May 3, 2008)

Albedo,

Would you allow bloodlines from Unearthed Arcana?


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 3, 2008)

Whoah...I think that my PG is going to be underpowered, compared to that build. But to say the truth, I have no desire to overly optimize him. I will post the draft tomorrow.


----------



## Shayuri (May 3, 2008)

Heee

I think I changed my mind on this. I'm gonna give it a pass. 

Have fun y'all!


----------



## Jemal (May 3, 2008)

nightbreeze - If your character's underpowered now, then he always was, it has nothing to do with anybody elses character.  Unless Albedo's the kinda DM who decides "The enemy's Attack Bonus is X b/c that's what he needs to hit the highest AC amongst the PC's, and his AC is X b/c that means the highest attack bonus needs a 15 to hit him", then it doesn't really matter.  (And if he is, then the only character that DOES matter is the strongest, and everyone else will be rolling for 20's regardless of how weak/powerful they are.)

So either way, saying your character's underpowered b/c of another character is rather pointless.  If you thought he could contribute before seeing the other characters, then he should still be able to.  If you didn't, then you wouldn't have made him.  

But none of that really matters in a campaign like this where it was stated we be gaining substantial circumstantial bonuses based on posting style and description.  That means that the best writer will likely be the one setting the power curve.

If people dislike this concept, I can always switch to a paragon halfling with a 3-digit AC.


----------



## Shayuri (May 3, 2008)

Hee

Despite having bowed out, I do have opinions on this.

Jemal has a point...but I don't agree that all PC's in a party are to be measured in isolation. When a GM designs an encounter, if there are stark, deep differences in character ability, that makes it tricky. If one PC has an AC of 100, attack bonus of 60 and does 80 damage per hit, and the other PC's have ACs of 50, attack bonuses of 40 and do 30 damage per hit, then there's a problem. 

The encounters that challenge most PC's will be utterly incapable of challenging the other. Encounters that challenge him will instantly annihilate the others. That's not to say it can't be done...it just makes encounter design, already difficult at these levels, that much harder.

And I want to make it clear that in no way should this be construed as an attack on anyone for making the character they want to play. Frankly, Jemal's build...while good...is not even CLOSE to as optimized as one could be with these starting conditions. When you have PC's with 90 points, 1 for 1, access to all Wizards books, and a vast HP multiple...you will get characters like this. It's all but inevitable.

That's one reason I opted out. It's too much, even for me. 

Edit - Oh, and I think the solution to the problem, from the PC side of things, is not to censure the "strong" character, but to get advice on builds to bring the party into parity.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 3, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> k, I don't know where some of these invokations you got are from. I can't approve them until I find them, hence, book and page numbers please.



Added book and page number to any invocation not from Comp Arcane.


----------



## Avalon® (May 4, 2008)

*Epic Binder*

Albedo, would you approve of this vestige: Zyceryll?


----------



## Zoycitenega (May 4, 2008)

Finally coming back to this site after a lot of real - life drama, this game has really caught my eye.  I've got a character idea coming together, but I would like to know whether or not you're ok with sentient weapons .

[sblock=Hail]Human Swashbuckler 3 / Monk(UA - Passive Way) 2 / Wizard 2 / Dervish 10 / Tempest 5 / Abjurant Champion 5 / Invisible Blade 5
HP:  1565
AC:  10 + 8(dex) + 8(wis) + 5(int) + 3(derv) + 3 (tempest, 2 wpn) +5 (Defl) +11(mage armor, greater) = 53
BS Atk = 28/23/18/13/8/3


223+90=313*5 = 1565

Str  12+1
Dex  18+2(+6) = 26(+8)
Con 16
Int 18+2(+6) = 26(+8)
Wis 18+2(+6) = 26(+8)
Cha 8

Complete Warrior:  Swashbuckler (11), Dervish(25), Invisible Blade(44)
Complete Adventurer:  Tempest(81)
Unearthed Arcana:  Passive Way monk variant(52)
Complete Arcane:  Abjurant Champion()

Spendage:  
Head - Circlet of Intellect +6(36)
Face - 
Neck - Amulet of Wisdom +6(36)
Shoulders - 
Torso - 
Robes - 
Waist - 
Arms - 
Gloves - Gloves of Dexterity +6(36)
Boots - 

Ring 1 - Deflection +5(50)
Ring 2 - 

Dagger 1 - 
Dagger 2 - 

Current cost = 158,000/10,000,000[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (May 4, 2008)

Also, I'd like to say that as far as game balance goes, my character is about as powerful as a lvl 30 ought to be, if you trust the ELH.  How do I know this?  By looking at CR ~30 monsters in the ELH.

The following two examples are not taking the X5 hp into account, b/c that's something unique to the campaign, not the character, putting my HP at just under 600.
[sblock=Adult Force Dragon, CR 31: ]
AC 64 (I'd need a 9 on my FIRST attack before adding in any additive abilities.  A 6 when frenzying and flurrying.  An 11 on my second round of attacks).  plus I have a  20% miss chance.  Frenzy/flurry, I average 4 hits, (maybe 3 with the miss chance)
Attack Bonus: +61 - He'd need a 12 to hit me when I'm frenzying (10 with secondary attacks assuming Multiattack).  not unreachable (And this is before any of the dragon's feats are spent).  He probably connects with 2-3 a round.
avg Damage: 34 bite, 19 claws, 17 wings, 39 tail slap.   He'd need to hit me about 25 times to kill me, meaning 10 rounds.
 HP: ~877.  Frenzying, I'd need to hit him ~26 to kill him (Avg of 6/7 rounds)

So not taking into account the dragons spellcasting, feats(Minus multiattack), epic feats, or any possible equipment it may have, I win, though I'd be more than half dead.
[/sblock]
[sblock=Elder Titan, CR 30]
AC: 58 I could reliably hit it while frenzying and flurrying (connecting with an avg of 5 attacks)
Attack bonus: 87-72 It can't miss me unless it power attacks, hitting reliably with 4 attacks a round.  Even power attacking, it has a hard time to miss me when I Frenzy.
Damage: avg 44/hit.  He'd have to hit me 14 times to kill me.
HP: 1,015.  I'd have to hit it over 30 times to kill it.

So, assuming 'averages', and assuming it doens't use any of it's spells/spell-like abilities, It kills me in 4 rounds, and I leave it more than half dead.  OH wait, I kill it 2 rounds later due to deathless frenzy, THEN I die.
[/sblock]


So yeah, I can solo CR 30 monsters.  Barely.  Not taking into account their special abilities.  I see that as about the power level a lvl 30 should be aiming for.  PC's are CR's equal to their level anyways, so why not aim for being as powerful as one of the monsters?
Though I guess in the end, all of this is a load of bull b/c I've never believed CR was an accurate delineation of a monster's power anyways. *shrug*

So did I have a point?  The point is I hope nobody quits b/c they're scared someone else is gonna be more powerful (And yes, I do realize no one has yet said they were going to quit, this is a general statement.)

Finally, Shayuri had a very good point - THis is hardly the worst any of us could do.  My roomate and I made a lvl 10 that could kill Tarrasques, I have a core lvl 20 character with a 3-digit AC, and I've seen lvl 30 concepts from my room-mates that could one shot my current character (And by one shot, I don't mean they get lucky, I mean that their average attack rolls/damage kills me in one round.  WITH the X5 hp.) 

In the end, I decided to go with a concept that I thougth was cool, and powerful enough to hold his own.  Hence the redeemed villainous Berserker turned Righteously Wrathful Exalted Hero.

As far as advice on 'builds' goes, first step is, as you probably all know: Come up with a cool concept - What do you want your character to do?  THEN crunch the numbers.  
Also don't be worried about "why would my character have 2 lvls of this and 1 lvl of that and...".  If The answer is b/c that's the only way to achieve your vision of the character, then it doesn't matter how many 'dips' he's got!  If you see the character as having unarmed strike, evasion, and not wearing armour, then why NOT take 2 levels in monk?  Need that extra feat for great cleave b/c your character is meant to wade through armies... Don't hesitate to grab a level of fighter b/c you're afraid people will think you twinky.  Twinking is more about getting the character you want than about maximizing your combat potential.   It just happens that enhanced combat potential is one of the pleasant side benefits of it.


----------



## Jemal (May 4, 2008)

Zoy - I see your base attack (I assume thats what BS Attack stands for) is 28.  This is impossible at lvl 30, as base attack (As well as base saves) cap at lvl 20.   After that, you get an "Epic attack bonus" on all attacks at every odd level (21, 23, 25, etc), and an "Epic Save Bonus" to all saves at every Even level (22,24,26, etc).
Thus, if your classes are in order as listed, your Base attack bonus would be 18, with a +5 epic attack bonus.

I suggest figuring out how much you value saves vs attack, and then reordering your class levels to suit (Keeping in mind requirements for prestige classes and what level you were able to first obtain them at).


----------



## Albedo (May 4, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Albedo, would you approve of this vestige: Zyceryll?




I'll say sure to this one, just hold off on that daze attack during NPC battles.


----------



## Albedo (May 4, 2008)

Zoycitenega: Welcome aboard. Concept looks interesting.

Shayuri: Hate to lose ya. You do some pretty good epic work.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 4, 2008)

I have updated my invocations. I included book and page numcers for all not Complete Arcane ones.

http://www.enworld.org/showpost.php?p=4193288&postcount=38


----------



## Avalon® (May 4, 2008)

Thanks Albedo. But what about those epic vestiges and the epic binder?


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 4, 2008)

Whats the price for a belt of battle? I don't have anything in my belt slot yet.


----------



## Albedo (May 4, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Thanks Albedo. But what about those epic vestiges and the epic binder?




Sadly, I still can't get into the page you referenced me to. Write a paraphrase of it and I'll see what I think.

Walking Dad: Thanks for the page numbers, I'll look all your invocations over tommorow.


----------



## Avalon® (May 4, 2008)

They copied the entire article and posted on this thread though you might take a while to understand it since the copy in the thread is all text.

Here's the thread. 

Also, can I use bloodlines from UA?


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 5, 2008)

Can our big-ticket (5mil) item be intelligent (ELH p.146)? Adding a little sentience to an accumulation of power that massive only seems natural 

Does the "only one swift action per round" house rule mean that if I use a boost (Swift Action), I won't be able to use a counter (Immediate Action) that round? Or that I can use a boost AND a counter EVERY round if need be?

Are you using the "psionics are different" option, or will SR stop psionic abilities?


----------



## Zoycitenega (May 5, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Zoy - I see your base attack (I assume thats what BS Attack stands for) is 28.  This is impossible at lvl 30, as base attack (As well as base saves) cap at lvl 20.   After that, you get an "Epic attack bonus" on all attacks at every odd level (21, 23, 25, etc), and an "Epic Save Bonus" to all saves at every Even level (22,24,26, etc).
> Thus, if your classes are in order as listed, your Base attack bonus would be 18, with a +5 epic attack bonus.
> 
> I suggest figuring out how much you value saves vs attack, and then reordering your class levels to suit (Keeping in mind requirements for prestige classes and what level you were able to first obtain them at).



*growl*  I knew I had forgotten something about epic.  Thanks Jemal


----------



## Albedo (May 5, 2008)

Avalon: Sadly I don't like the effects of your epic vestiges, so I'm not allowing them. The class looks alright, however it does continue to get special abilities, so I'm decreasing the epic feat gain to every 4 levels.

No bloodlines please.

Vertexx: You can make your big ticket item anything you want, so int booster is allowed.

Treat immediate actions seperatly from swift actions. You gain one of each every round.

I'm not using the psionics are different option since I don't know how big of apart psionics will have in this campaign and don't want to leave huge holes.


You're doing great guys. Don't forget to approach me for specials for any characters who don't have any yet.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 5, 2008)

Any new opinions regarding my invocations?


----------



## Avalon® (May 6, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> Avalon: Sadly I don't like the effects of your epic vestiges, so I'm not allowing them. The class looks alright, however it does continue to get special abilities, so I'm decreasing the epic feat gain to every 4 levels.
> 
> No bloodlines please.




Oh well.




			
				Albedo said:
			
		

> You're doing great guys. Don't forget to approach me for specials for any characters who don't have any yet.




I'm not sure if I already recieved one from you. Have I?


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 6, 2008)

I am slowly starting to move on it. Scan and tell me what is wrong.

Possible problems:
1) Don't know if you allow the Cobra strike variant monk, you can find the link in there
2) The shou disciple stacks with monk levels for the purposes of flurry: in my interpretation, than means that they get greater flurry too
3) The weapon is intelligent, with maximized scores and more powers, in order to get the price higher than 5kk gp.

Monk 7(cobra style)/ Shou Disciple 5/ Fighter 4/ Swashbuckler 4/Iaijutsu Master 10

[sblock=feat tree]
1) [Imp. unarmed strike], [Dodge], Weapon focus(unarmed strike), Improved initiative, [Flurry of blows]
2) [Mobility], [Evasion]
3) Quick Draw, [still mind]
4) [Ki strike(magic)]
5) [Purity of body]
6) [Spring Attack], Exotic Weapon proficiency (Katana), [Dodge bonus +1], [Slow fall 30ft]
7)
8)
9) Weapon Focus (Katana), [Power attack]
10)
11) [Expertise], [Greater Flurry]
12) Imp. Critical (Katana) [dodge bonus +4], [Martial Flurry(any weapon)]
13) [Cleave]
14) [Elusive Target]
15) Improved Bull Rush
16) [Shock Trooper]
17) [Weapon Finesse]
18) Improved cleave
19) 
20)
21) Superior Initiative, [Weapon Finesse (Katana)], [Canny Defence]
22) [Lightning blade]
23) 
24) Devastating Critical, [Improved Combat Expertise]
25) [Strike from the Void]
26) 
27) Overwhelming Critical
28) [One strike, two cuts]
29) [?]
30) Dire Charge, [Strike with no thought]

Normal, plain feat.
Monk bonus feat (cobra stricobra strike style 
Shou disciple (Unapproachable east 33) bonus feat
Fighter bonus feat
Swashbuckler (Complete Warrior 11) bonus feat
Iaijutsu master (Oriental Adventures 41) bonus feat
[Special ability from the class on that level]


Stats:

```
Ability Base Levels Inherent Enhancemente Total

Str 9     +5 + 6 = 20 (+ 5)
Dex 18 +7 +5 +12 = 42 (+16)
Con 15    +5 + 6 = 26 (+ 8)
Int 17    +5 + 6 = 28 (+ 9)
Wis 13    +5 + 6 = 24 (+ 7)
Cha 18    +5 +12 = 35 (+12)
```


Equipment

[sblock=The Sword Eternity, 5.095.500 gp]

Eternity is imbued by the true essence of a dying god, a wind elemental prince and the primordial elves. Its purposes are unknow, but it seems to protect and fill with power the direct blood relatives of the primordial elves' royal bloodline. 


Special purpose: (50.000gp)
Let someone wield it as long as he carries sufficient amount of the primordial elves power, and defend him and his sons. The purpose of Eternity will be accomplished when one of the Wielders manages to defeat the Defenders of Time, so that the Primordial Le'shays will be able to restore their absolute empire

+10 Keen Speed Defending Katana (4.500.000 gp)

Intelligent Weapon:
Int 36 (+13)
Wis 36 (+13)
Cha 24 (+7)
(13200gp)

Alignament: True Neutral
Communication: Speech and telepathy (8000gp)

Primary powers (24000gp)
1) Free use of uncanny dodge as a 5th level barbarian
2) Wielder does not need to sleep
3) Wielder does not need to breathe
4) Wielder can see invisibility at will

Extraordinary powers (100.000gp)
1) True seeing at will
2) Passwall at will
3) Clairaudience/clairvoyance 3/day, 1 minute per use
4) Globe of Invulnerability, 1/day

Awesome powers (400.000gp)
1) Dominate monster 1/day
2) Gate 1/day
3) Prismatic sphere 1/day
4) Teleport without error 2/day

[/sblock] 

Gloves of Epic Dexterity +12, 1.440.000 gp
Mantle of Epic Charisma +12, 1.440.000 gp
Belt of Magnificence +6, 200.000gp
6 manuals +5, 783.000 gp
Adamantine Buckler +1, Soulfire and Heavy Fortification, 101.152gp
Ring of Deviation +5, 50.000gp
Amulet of Natural armor +5, 25.000gp
Bracelets of Armor +8, 64.000gp

something else....

Full Attack, martial flurry.

+47/+47/+47/+47/+42/+37/+32
17(bab)+10(weapon)+16(dexterity)+5(epic bonus)+1(buckler)= +47

AC: 64 = 10+16(dex)+7(wisdom)+9(intelligence)+4(dodge feat)+8(armor)+5(natural armor)+5(deviation)


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 6, 2008)

A buckler still counts as a shield, so you'd be giving up your 7 AC from Wis as well as your monk bonus to AC. There are other ways to get the heavy fort and negative energy protection though. Read the Epic portion of srd carefully


----------



## Albedo (May 6, 2008)

Walking Dad: Sorry, yours is taking the longest to look over, I've never actually played a warlock so theres alot of research to do. I shouldn't need to much longer though, I'm 2/3 done reading through your list.

Nightbreeze: I'm saying no to intelligent items, though I will agree with your interpretation on the greater flurry thing. I'll also allow Cobra Strike.

Avalon: You said you'd ask for a special later.

Vertexx: If your employing rules from the SRD that don't make an appearance in the hardcover manuals at all, I want to know about them.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 6, 2008)

Nope, I was refering to rod of invulnerability and the trudeath mace. Together they grant the immunity to crits and the immunity to negative energy (although at a significantly higher price). And you just said that I could have an Intelligent Item.


----------



## Jemal (May 6, 2008)

AH, I see the mixup : 
Albedo thought Vertexx said an intelligence item, as in an INT BOOSTER, not an Item that was, itself Intelligent (Sentient), which is what Vertexx was asking for.


----------



## Jemal (May 6, 2008)

Also, the mace Vertexx was referring to is actually called "finaldeath" in the ELH, and on d20srd.org (Just so people don't get confused looking for truedeath).  It's described on page 134 of the ELH - "This +5 undead dread ghost touch morningstar also grants its wielder immunity to energy drain attacks.  Furthermore, if its wielder is capable of turning undead, he gains the Positive Energy Aura feat."  Cost: 3,580,308 GP


----------



## Albedo (May 6, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> AH, I see the mixup :
> Albedo thought Vertexx said an intelligence item, as in an INT BOOSTER, not an Item that was, itself Intelligent (Sentient), which is what Vertexx was asking for.




Ah, theres the mix up. Thanks Jemal. I'm not going to be allowing Intelligent Items, sorry.


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 6, 2008)

Ew...not going to spend 3,5kk for an useless weapon 

But thanks for the rod of invulnerability, I'll take that.

Will have to think about the weapon. Do you know any mean to add 500.000gp to the cost of a weapon? I don't want to spend too much money over it.


----------



## Albedo (May 7, 2008)

Walking Dad:
k, I've scanned through your invocations, and have come up with a small list of ones I don't want you to use and the reasons for it.

Beshadowed Beast: This heres a save or effect, something I've been tring to get you to shy away from.

Nightmares Made Real: If this were a normal campaign I wouldn't mind so much, but the lack of true seeing from fewer casters would make this spell a little overpowered sorry.

Dark Discorperation: I'm just gonna say, Immunity to Weapons in a Weapon Based Campaign. 

Binding Blast: Save Or once again.

Those are all the ones I don't approve I think. Everything else looks good.


----------



## Albedo (May 7, 2008)

K guys, I think everyone shows they have working character structures. Hows Thursday next week sound as a shot in the dark character deadline?


----------



## Walking Dad (May 7, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> Walking Dad:
> k, I've scanned through your invocations, and have come up with a small list of ones I don't want you to use and the reasons for it.
> 
> Beshadowed Beast: This heres a save or effect, something I've been tring to get you to shy away from.
> ...




Beshadowed Blast & Dark Discorperation are prerequisites for the "Shadowmaster" feat.

Nightmares Made Real is my ticket to use hide while being observt, essential for my hit and run tactics.

Binding Blast: I need a dark invocation blast for the "Master of All-Essences" feat. There are only this and the utterdark blast.

If you would forego the prerequisites and we could give my warlock the Hide in Plain Sight ability from the ShadowDancer Prestige Class as lesser or greater invocation, I could save my character. If not, my character concept is destroyed, and I would have to leave your game.

Or need a completely new character concept...


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 7, 2008)

The deadline seems sensible.


----------



## Albedo (May 7, 2008)

Walking Dad: 
K, Step one, you already have an effective hide in plain sight, I left Enervating Shadows in for exactly that reason. You can hide with total concealment.

Step 2: I'll let those prereques slide for the purposes of those feats since your character is limited in this campaign.

Step 3: I am not granting ANY leway on an ability that can be gained by taking a single level in a prestige class. If Enervating Shadows does not tickle you, take the level in shadow dancer. 

Step 4: You knew this could be a fickle concept in a non-spellcasting campaign. Nothing I have stated goes above and beyond the restictions I put up at the start. I like the idea of a warlock in this game, but I'm not looking for a spellcaster. Its as simple as that. Now I am working with you as much as possible to get both parties satisfied with the results, but I have no intentions of stepping past the intent of this campaign.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 7, 2008)

Okay, I can work with that. Your answers seem very logic. I didn't remembered this rule in enervating shadow (took the invocation primary for shadowmaster and fluff). Will update as soon as possible.


----------



## Avalon® (May 8, 2008)

Albedo,

You said that you wouldn't allow the epic vestiges from that article earlier but would you allow the ability to bind another vestige for every 5 EBL starting from 25 EBL right?


----------



## Albedo (May 8, 2008)

Avalon® said:
			
		

> Albedo,
> 
> You said that you wouldn't allow the epic vestiges from that article earlier but would you allow the ability to bind another vestige for every 5 EBL starting from 25 EBL right?




That is correct.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 8, 2008)

Are the new invocations fine?

Work in progress:

Dark Human Warlock 29 / Ex-Monk 1 (ECL 30)
(Template gained through Collar of Dark Meatamorphosis (22,000 gp)

[sblock]Abilities:

Concentration
Spellcraft
Use Magic Device
Hide
Move Silently


Feats:
H Able Learner (Races of Destiny)
1 Combat Reflexes
3 Dark Stalker (Lords of Madness)
6 Extra Invocation
9 Extra Invocation
12 Extra Invocation
15 Extra Invocation
18 Extra Invocation

21 Epic Extra Invocation
24 Lord of all Essences
27 Shadowmaster
30 ?

Warlock Bonus Feats:
23 Superior Intiative
26 Energy Resistance
29 Fast Healing

Least 3 (+2)
Darkness
Eldritch Glaive (Dragon Magic p. 82)
Hideous Blow
Devil Sight
Entropic Warding

Lesser 3 (+3)
Hellrime Blast
Ignore the Pyre (Dragon Magic p. 82)
Relentless Dispelling (Comp Mage p. 124)
Fell Flight
Flee the Scene
Voidsense

Greater 3
Enervating Shadows
Vitrolic Blast
Eldritch Line (Dragon Magic p. 82) or Caustic Mire (Comp Mage p. 98)
or Repelling Blast

Dark 3 (+1)
Retributive Invisibility
Caster's Lament (Comp Mage p. 123)
Path of Shadow
Eldritch Doom

Equipment:
Talisman of Undying Fortitude MIC 188

Vest of resistance MIC 147

Vampire Torc MIC 144

Ruby Cincture of Immutability MIC 131

Ring of Universal Energy Resistance MIC 128

Healing Belt MIC 110

Gloves of eldritch admixture MIC 105

Chasuble of Fell Power MIC 85

Bracers of the Blast Barrier MIC 80

Warlocks Scepter MIC 63

Crystal of Screening MIC 26

Crystal of Mind Cloaking MIC 25

Mindarmor Quickness MIC 13

Masking MIC 12
[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (May 8, 2008)

Er...are you still recruiting?

Because I just had an idea for something I'd love to try, and my character in Jemal's game is already pretty much set.

Nymph swordsage! Possibly with some duelist in there.

Or...or...Pixie bladesinger!

Hahaha

I must make the ultimate fey sworder. Please say I can.


----------



## Albedo (May 8, 2008)

Walking Dad: Invokation list looks good.

Shayuri: Welcome back. I'm looking forward to see what you come up with.


----------



## Shayuri (May 9, 2008)

Looks like a pixie!

Still fiddling with class levels. Ninja is looking good, and swordsage with Shadow Hand and a smattering of others...

More to come.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 9, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Looks like a pixie!
> 
> Still fiddling with class levels. Ninja is looking good, and swordsage with Shadow Hand and a smattering of others...



[sblock=Shayuri]You should watch out for over loading on shadowhand maneuvers. If we come up against the 40% side of the mobs that are immune to ability dmg/SA then you would be left in the lurch. And just FYI my submission is mainly a swordsage (initiator lvl 24). Although hes a pirate themed, claw-fighting, Master of Nine. I just don't want to see the concepts overlapping so much that the DM chooses one over the other [/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (May 9, 2008)

[sblock=Vertexx]Actually, several higher level Shadow Hand moves do bonus damage without requiring critical hit vulnerability or even flatfooting...though often have reduced effects when those conditions aren't met. There are also items that can give limited ability to sneak attack creatures that are ordinarily immune. And, of course, I plan on borrowing liberally from Desert Wind and some other disciplines as well.

As far as concepts go, your guy sounds totally different than mine. You are a claw pirate...I am a flaming shady pixie.   I think we'll be fine.[/sblock]


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 9, 2008)

Hmph, as usual, I am going to be the plain human


----------



## Shayuri (May 9, 2008)

Hah!

I was going to be at first.

Works just fine. But...it's so rare to have a game with a level threshold high enough to be a really powerful sprite.


----------



## Albedo (May 10, 2008)

Walking Dad: Btw, I've been meaning to bring this up for awhile, but I keep forgetting. For the purposes of this campaign, Eldritch Glaive will not be subject to SR. This means you can still participate in encounters with such creatures, without having to rely solely on Vitrolic Blast.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 10, 2008)

Very good news


----------



## Albedo (May 12, 2008)

Hmmm.... Everybodys vanished. Remember guys, deadlines on Thursday. 

Heres the  Rogues Gallery


----------



## Shayuri (May 12, 2008)

Site was down pretty much all day yesterday. 

The goodnews is that it gave me time to finish my pixie. I shall post it here tonight to get feedback, then pending responses will post to the RG.

I think it's fairly competitive with the designs I'm seeing so far. I'm a little concerned about damage output, but with manuevers I can get some decent hits in. Defense is fairly strong, though not unbreakable. 18 scout, 8 swordsage levels. AC is 63 when skirmishing. Touch AC is 52 when skirmishing. Has SR and DR. Current build features Epic and Infinite Deflection too, but I may change that, since it's very feat-heavy.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 13, 2008)

I'm still here. I just had to write an Econ paper and an English essay over the weekend. Still trying to visualize an intriguing background story for my pirate themed Master of Nine. I'm debating between airship captain or the standard variety.


----------



## Shayuri (May 13, 2008)

Here's the prelim sheet. I'll update shortly with item and feat references. I just want to get this up for now.   As noted, feat selection MAY change...haven't decided yet. Suggestions on feats, manuevers, items, always welcome.

Any chance you can share any setting info? It'll help me write a background. Also, some indication of how much RP vs how much combat would be useful in determining how much time to spend on it. 

[sblock=Pixie Power!]Name: Pending
Race: Pixie
Class/Level: 18 scout, 8 swordsage, 4 ECL
Gender: Female
Exp:

Desc

Strength (STR) 12 (-4 racial)
Dexterity (DEX) 48 (+8 racial, +5 levelup + 5 inherent + 12 enhancement)
Constitution (CON) 28 (+4 inherent + 6 enhancement)
Intelligence (INT) 16 (+6 racial)
Wisdom (WIS) 40 (+4 racial, +1 levelup + 5 inherent + 12 enhancement)
Charisma (CHA) 16 (+6 racial)

Alignment: Chaotic Good
AC: 59 (10 + 1 size + 1 natural + 19 dex + 15 wis + 5 deflection + 8 armor)
Hit Points: [158+(26xcon)]x5
Movement: 40', 60' Perfect

Init: +27
Base Attack Bonus: +18
Melee Attack: +37 (w/weapon finesse)
Ranged Attack: +37
Fort: +28 (9 base + 9 Con + 2 battle fort + 8 resistance)
Reflex: +44 (17 base + 19 dex + 8 resistance)
Will: +35 (12 base + 15 wis + 8 resistance)

Race Abilities
-4 Str, +8 Dex, +6 Int, +4 Wis, +6 Cha
Small size: +1 hit, +1 AC, +4 Hide, -4 grapple, 3/4's wgt limits
Fly 60' Good
Low Light Vision
+2 Spot, Search, Listen
Racial Bonus Feats: Dodge, Weapon Finesse
+1 natural armor
Spell Like Abilities: (CL 8, each 1/day, DC cha-based)
- Lesser Confusion
- Dancing Lights
- Detect Chaos, Good, Evil, Law, Thoughts
- Dispel Magic
- Entangle
- Permanant Image
DR 10/cold iron
SR 41 (15 + class levels)
Greater Invisibility at will (Su)
LA +4

Class Abilities:
Skirmish +5d6, +4 AC
Trapfinding
Battle Fortitude +2 (bonus to init & fort saves)
Uncanny Dodge
Fast Movement +20 foot speed
Trackless Step (cannot be tracked in natural surroundings)
Bonus Feats: 4
 - Mobility, Spring Attack, Improved Initiative, Quick Draw
Evasion
Flawless Stride (moves normally through any terrain)
Camouflage (use Hide in any natural terrain)
Blindsense 30
Hide in Plain Sight (use hide even when observed, in natural terrain)
Free Movement (Ex, as Freedom of Movement spell)

Quick to Act +2
Discipline Focus (weapon) - Shadow Hand
Discipline Focus (Insight strike +15 dmg) - Shadow Hand
Discipline Focus (Defensive Stance +2 saves) - Setting Sun
Sense Magic

Skills: 231 scout + 88 swordsage
Bluffcc (14cc ranks + 
Concentration (29 ranks + 9 Con
Hide (29 ranks + 19 Dex
Knowledge: Nature (24 ranks + 
Listen (29 ranks + 15 Wis
Move Silently (29 ranks + 19 Dex
Performcc (10cc ranks + 
Search (21 ranks + 
Sense Motive (29 ranks + 15 wis
Spot (25 ranks + 15 wis
Survival (21 ranks + 15 wis
Tumble (29 ranks + 19 dex

Feats
1 Improved Unarmed Strike
3 Combat Reflexes
6 Deflect Arrows
9 Adaptive Style
12 Flyby Attack
15 Shadow Blade
18 Bounding Assault

21 Exceptional Deflection
24 Infinite Deflection

Languages - Common, Sylvan, Elvish, Goblin, Orcish

Manuevers (Swordsage CL17) 13 known, 7 readied (* indicates readied)

Diamond Mind
----------------
* Mind Over Body (Counter)
Emerald Razor  (strike)
* Greater Insightful Strike (strike)
* Diamond Defense (Counter)
* Time Stands Still (Strike)

Shadow Hand
--------------
* Bloodletting Strike (Strike)
Shadow Blink (teleport)
Shadow Garrote (Strike)
Obscuring Shadow Veil (Strike)
One With Shadow (Counter)

Setting Sun
--------------
* Counter Charge (Counter)
Hydra Slaying Strike (Strike)
* Fool's Strike (Counter)

Stances 3
-----------
Stance of Alacrity (1 free counter per round)
Giant Killing Style (+2 to hit, +4 damage vs larger creatures)
Assassin's Stance (Gain 2d6 sneak attack)

Money - 1,390

Weapon - 
Evening Star, +48 to hit, 1d4+26, 2lbs, 5,122,810
Everbright Illuminating Metalline Impaling Sacred Wounding Short Sword +10
Weapon Crystal: Greater Truedeath, 10,000gp

Armour -
Bracers of Armor +8, 64k

Gear -

Magic - 4,641,000
Gloves of Dex +12, 1.44mil
Periapt of Wis +12, 1.44mil
Vest of Resistance +8, 640,000

Ironskin Ring, 400k
Ring of Fast Healing, 300k
Belt of Con +6, 36k
Cloak of Etherealness, 55k
Raptor's Mask, 3,500gp
Boots of Speed, 12,000gp
Circlet of Persuasion, 4,500gp
Personal Oasis, 4,600gp
Rod of Bodily Restoration, 3,100gp
Orb of Mental Renewal, 3,100gp
Gem of Seeing, 75k

Tomes: 385k
Tome of Wis +5, 137,500
Tome of Dex +5, 137,500
Tome of Con +4, 110,000

[/sblock]


----------



## Nightbreeze (May 13, 2008)

I am sad to say this, but I can no longer promise to keep my commitment, thus I wont be going on with this campaign. My own epic level campaign is getting into a crucial phase (8 year fast forward where a lot of things happen), and I have to build a lot of new bastard enemies and thing about new scenes. Hmm...thinking about a group of 5 epic warlocks, each one with two epic warlock feats....too strong, but not bad. It is not really easy to challenge a party of six 21-level characters, although they suck with the epic spells (not that i use them much, anyway).


----------



## Walking Dad (May 13, 2008)

When I read the other submissions, I doubt my character will survive the first encounter...


----------



## Shayuri (May 13, 2008)

I don't recall anything underwhelming about your guy.

I'll take a peek at his sheet.

Edit - Hmm...you don't have the full sheet posted yet...but if you'd like some comments I'd be happy to offer some suggestions.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 13, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> I don't recall anything underwhelming about your guy.
> 
> I'll take a peek at his sheet.
> 
> Edit - Hmm...you don't have the full sheet posted yet...but if you'd like some comments I'd be happy to offer some suggestions.



Thank you very much   

I got a bit RL in the way of character creation (including got my cash and credit card stolen  )


----------



## Shayuri (May 13, 2008)

Ooo, yeah, that'd do it.

Don't take any of what I'm saying as a criticism by the way. I have my own design philosophy where warlocks are involved, so what I'm saying must be taken more as sort of, "This is what I'd do," talk...

That said...I think you're blowing too many feats on more invocations. Remember that no matter how many invocations you have, you can only USE one per turn (blast shape and essence notwithstanding) unless you have Quicken Spell Like Ability.

I also think some of your invocation choices are...not what I'd call optimal, though I recognize some are to fulfill prereqs. Here's a breakdown on invocation picks I would suggest reconsidering.

Least
Devil Sight
- This is a terrible, terrible power. See the Unseen is the same level, gives you See Invisible AND Darkvision 60...which is functionally nearly identical. Yes, Devil sight pierces magic darkness...but since magic darkness is only a 20% miss chance now...who cares?

Lesser 3 (+3)
Ignore the Pyre (Dragon Magic p. 82)
Relentless Dispelling (Comp Mage p. 124) 
Voidsense
- Ignore the Pyre isn't actually too bad, but you can get better with a Ring of Universal Elemental Resistance for a mere 200-odd grand, and a ring slot. Relentless Dispelling is all but useless at epic levels against anything remotely close to your CR. Voidsense isn't useless, but if you have See the Unseen (see above) then you won't likely need it.

Greater 3
Eldritch Line (Dragon Magic p. 82) or Caustic Mire (Comp Mage p. 98) or Repelling Blast
- Line areas are the worst, in my opinion. Cones and spreads are much more useful. Repelling Blast is sometimes nice for "caster" style warlocks, but less so for a melee, I'd think. Caustic Mire just seems too weak to me for a Greater invocation slot at these levels.

Dark 3 (+1)
Caster's Lament (Comp Mage p. 123)
Eldritch Doom
- You'd probably be  better off with Devour Magic than Caster's Lament. I suppose it depends on if the GM rules Break Enchantment can de-petrify, which is otherwise the only thing Greater Dispel can't do better than it. Eldritch Doom is...I may reconsider this. For a blaster, it's awful, but if you routinely get in close anyway...that might be okay.

Let me think summore...


----------



## Jemal (May 13, 2008)

I must disagree with Shayuri on a couple points.  Devil's sight and Voidsense are some of my fave invocations simply for their versatility.  Blindsense is godly, especially at Epic, and as for devil's sight.. being able to see (ANY DISTANCE) through darkness and magical darkness is simply too awesome to pass up.  Sure, the 'darkness' spell may only be miss chance, but what about deeper darkness?  Or an epic darkness spell?  Or someone who's 300' away at night shooting arrows at you?  Or being stuck in a giant lightless cave?

Eldritch Line, Caustic Mire, Relentless Dispelling, Caster's lament, Eldritch Doom I'd have to agree with, at least in a game like this where it's supposed to be very centered around NON casters.

Repelling blast has always been one of my favourites simply because I like the idea of blasting someone and sending them flying. 

Ignore the Pyre - If you've got the extra money, I'd agree with Shayuri, the ring is better.  If you're strapped for cash, though, Ignore the Pyre is great so long as you have at least some warning about what element you're going to have to face.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 14, 2008)

Some of my thoughts about the "problematic" invocations:

Devil's Sight is needed for the Shadowmaster Feat

Ignore the pyre: I wanted to by this ring. But I thought, IMMUNITY, not resistance would be of some worth.

Voidsense is useful against fog etc

Relentless Dispelling: I hope it would be useful against buffer builds.

Repelling Blast in conjunktion with eldritch glaive and combat reflexes allows me to to push back enemies I hit with my AoOs.

Good call about caster's lament. I wait for a DM judgement.

I need really help regarding items.  What do you think of them?

[sblock=Equipment]
Talisman of Undying Fortitude MIC 188

Vest of resistance MIC 147

Vampire Torc MIC 144

Ruby Cincture of Immutability MIC 131

Ring of Universal Energy Resistance MIC 128

Healing Belt MIC 110

Gloves of eldritch admixture MIC 105

Chasuble of Fell Power MIC 85

Bracers of the Blast Barrier MIC 80

Warlocks Scepter MIC 63

Crystal of Screening MIC 26

Crystal of Mind Cloaking MIC 25

Mindarmor Quickness MIC 13

Masking MIC 12[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (May 14, 2008)

Hee...I dunno if I'd ever say Blindsense is 'godly' at any level, but it can be useful, especially in conjunction with Blind Fight. That said, I find See Unseen more consistantly useful than Voidsense and/or Devil's Sight. Circumstances where blindsense and impenetrable darkness are an issue are much rarer than circumstances where ordinary darkness and invisibility are an issue... That said, it's all a matter of play style and what you're expecting. 

As for Ignore the Pyre, it doesn't grant immunity. I'm not sure what you mean by this. It grants resistance to one energy type (at a time) equal to your caster level. The invocation that gives energy immunity is a Dark one, and as such isn't available to warlocks via that feat.

Relentless Dispel COULD be useful against SOME buffer builds...but most critters that can cast even supplementary spells at CR 30 do so at caster levels of 20 or more. The only exception is NPC's constructed with class levels...and even then, a gish at level 30 could easily get caster levels in excess of 20. Relentless Dispel would be useful mostly for minion and secondary NPC's, and for suppressing non-epic items. That's not useless...but it's not a very good use of a level 30 character's standard action either.

Good point about Repelling Blast! I hadn't thought of that. Eldritch Glaive is not in my personal warlock playbook. 

As for items...

At this level, a Healing Belt is a waste of a good item slot. My opinion.

I'm not sure the Bracelets of Blast Barrier work with Eldritch Blast...I'll have to look it up when I get home. Similarly, a lot of these I'm not familiar with, so I can't comment on right away...

I'm pretty sure (but not COMPLETELY) that your ring of energy resistance won't stack with Ignore the Pyre, reinforcing the comments about changing it.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 14, 2008)

Heck, you are right about the pyre. I will ditch it!
(And about the healing belt, too.)

Edit: What about a third eye of concealment?


----------



## Albedo (May 16, 2008)

Alrighty, the loose deadline has come and gone and I have 2.75 submissions. So lets see here.

Shayuri: I haven't seen any problems with your character thus far, wanna move it to the rogues gallery and submit a world name?

Walking Dad: How long until your character is finished?

Everyone Else who hasn't submitted: Roll Call: Anybody else throwing their hat in?

So far we have:
Jemal, Vertex, Walking Dad, Shayuri.


----------



## Jemal (May 16, 2008)

WD - I'm not the DM, but I personally HATE third eye conceal.  Mind blank for any price is underpriced.  (Er.. that is the psionic mind blank one right?  I'm not on crack?)


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 16, 2008)

wow, just ran a test full pounce (using war master's charge and raging mongoose) against AC 51 with a flank (not counting the fact that hes attacking from invisible) - All 17 attacks hit - can you say 2,269 dmg in 1 round that bypasses epic/magic/G.E.C.L./adamantine DR  yeesh


----------



## Walking Dad (May 16, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> wow, just ran a test full pounce (using war master's charge and raging mongoose) against AC 51 with a flank (not counting the fact that hes attacking from invisible) - All 17 attacks hit - can you say 2,269 dmg in 1 round that bypasses epic/magic/G.E.C.L./adamantine DR  yeesh



Thanks, now I KNOW I suck at epic character creation 



			
				Albedo said:
			
		

> ...
> Walking Dad: How long until your character is finished?
> ...



I have very big problems at choosing equipment. If somebody else is faster and/or has epic expirience, I'm willing to bow out for him/her.


----------



## Shayuri (May 16, 2008)

Don't worry, Walking Dad...most of us don't approach that damage output. It's not a requirement for epic levels. I've never been a fan of the Feral template, myself. Partly because it's a 3.0 template, not 3.5...but mostly because the main "balancing" features of it are more RP than anything, kind of like how the paladin's code of honor works.

On the other hand, since we're all on the same side, I say go Feral. 

Oh! And I'll have a final version of my PC up today.

Sorry for dithering so long. Mostly I'm just angsting over the very feat-intensive Deflect Arrow chain and trying to decide if 5 feats, including both epics, is worth the benefit of being essentially immune to all ranged, non-area attacks.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 16, 2008)

Thank you, Shayuri.

I will try to do my best, but it was a hard week and my wife has to work this weekend, leaving me with the kids. I can easily manage to post in a thread, but it is difficult to make something like a equipment list.

BTW: the abilities start at zero before adding points?


----------



## Shayuri (May 16, 2008)

Yar. And it's 1 for 1...not on an increasing scale. But you can only buy a maximum of 18 before racial mods.


----------



## Darimaus (May 16, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> Thanks, now I KNOW I suck at epic character creation




I wouldn't be too worried, Vertexx hasn't mentioned feral pounce only works on the first round of combat. 

More importantly, because this game is description based, how well your character is made is only important to a point. You can make up any power gap with good writing skills.

Think there is any room for me in here?


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 16, 2008)

It is standard knowledge that it only works for the first charge, but I also have the pouncing strike manuever that lets me do it again  And being a heavy dmg dealer is only 1 aspect of any adventuring party I'm just filling a single role in the cast. In an antimagic field, everyone is dead meat at epic lvl no matter what the build ;p In my first epic game, I was all proud of my +27 to diplomacy until someone that owned every book there was showed up with a +123. We learn over time. So don't feel bad WD - Jemal and Shayuri will always be able to build circles around me because they have access to everything!


----------



## Jemal (May 16, 2008)

Something's only 'standard knowledge' to those that are familiar with it.  
Also, for anybody who thinks it's overpowered (It is, but..) Feral Pounce is pretty close to the Epic Feat Dire Charge, which is fairly easy to aquire if you want your character to do that kinda thing.

As far as # of sources - My char. for this campaign only uses a few non-core sources: Complete Warrior, Masters of the Wild, and Book of Exalted. (Oh I suppose the grafts from fiend folio, but the only thing I really get from them that matters is flight which can be gained any number of ways core, and the roleplaying quirk of being an ex-evil 'monster' who reformed and battles his evil upbringing on a daily basis).  I'd also like to point out that the most powerful character (IMO) that I came up with for this campaign was a core-only fighter type with a 3-digit AC.  
It's not the size of your stash, it's how you use it.



> In an antimagic field, everyone is dead meat at epic lvl no matter what the build



Actually...
[sblock=Bodin]
Bodin'al, "The Wrath of Purity" 
Human Male Barbarian1/Fighter1/Cleric1/Monk2/Forsaker15/Frenzied Berserker 10
{LVL 20: Barbarian1/Fighter1/Cleric1/Forsaker10/Frenzied Berserker 7}
AL: Neutral Good HT: 5'8" WT: 150  Hair: Silver Dreadlocks  Eyes: Red

STR: 30 (+10) [17 base +5 inherent +8 enhancement]
DEX:  28 (+9) [17 base +5 inherent +6 enhancement]
CON: 34 (+12) [18 base +5 inherent + 10 enhancement + 1 level]
INT: 20 (+5) [11 base +5 inherent +4 enhancement]
WIS: 56 (+23) [18 base +5 inherent +15 Forsaker + 6 level + 12 enhancement]
CHA: 16 (+5) [9 base +5 inherent +2 enhancement]

HP: 2977 (21d12+1d10+3d8+(3d12X2)+324x5) 

AC: 79 (10 base + 9 dex + 23 wis + 5 deflection +18 natural armour + 14 armour)
FF: 68  Touch: 47  Defensive Fighting: -4 atack, +5 AC
Saves: 
FORT: +42 (18 base +12 con +5 resist +2 feat +5 epic)  
REF: +26 (5 base +9 dex +5 resist +2 feat +5 epic) 
WILL: +46 (11 base +23 wis +5 resist +2 feat +5 epic)
Speed:  60/120 fly (X15=900/1800 fly)
Init: +9

Bab: 19 (+5 epic)
Attacks: 19 base +5 epic + 23 Wis+8 Exalted=55
Staff: 55/50/45/40;  1d6+23
Frenzy: +60/60/55/50/45; 1d6+30
Rage/Frenzy: 62/62/57/52/47; 1d6+33
Power atack: -1atk/+4damage (Max -19/+76)
Leap Attack: X3 power attack damage on charge. (-1 atk=+12, Max-19/+228)
Flurry: -2, 1 extra attack
Full Leaping Power Attack Rage/Frenzy: +45, 1d6+261

Skills(Total/Ranks):[159 Points/Max rank 33] 
Tumble (+34/25), Sense Motive(+56/33), Spot(+56/33), Escape Artist (+42/33), 35 more points

*-2 charisma checks (-6 from grafts,+2 from nymph's kiss, +2 Nimbus of Light)

Feats: [8]  Iron Will, Great Fortitude, Cleave, Intimidating Rage, Destructive Rage, Sacred Vow, Vow of Poverty(lvl 18), Leap Attack(?)

Exalted: [6] Nymph's Kiss(+13 skill points), Intuitive Attack, Righteous Wrath, Nimbus of Light, 1 more

Epic Feats: [5] Fast Heal, Spectral Strike, Reflect Arrow, Exceptional Deflection, Armour Skin

Bonus Feats: Stunning Fist[Fort  DC 50, 8/day](Monk), Deflect arrows(Monk), Lightning Reflexes(Cleric), Power Attack(Fighter)

Special Features: Domains (Drow, Pride[reroll nat 1 on saves]), Rage 1/day, Frenzy 5/day, Tough defense(con to ac), SR 26, Slippery mind, Natural Weapon(Weapon wielded overcomes DR: Good, Evil, Magic, Epic), Exalted AC bonus(+14), Exalted Strike(+8), Deflection(+5), Resistance(+5), DR 15/Evil, Natural Armour (Con mod +4=16) , Endure Elements, Greater Sustenance (No need to eat, drink, or breath), Mind Shielding, Freedom of Movement, True Seeing, Energy Resistance 25(Acid, Cold, Electricity, Fire, Sonic), 6 Bonus Exalted feats, Turn Undead (8/day), Rage(1/day), Fast Move, Supreme Power Attack, Greater Frenzy(5/day), Tireless Frenzy, Deathless Frenzy, Inspire Frenzy(3/day), Diehard

Languages: Common

Equipment: None/Special(see below)
Before he joined the ranks of the virtuous, Bodin was a powerful servant of evil, and was bestowed fiendish grafts as gifts from his demonic overlords.  He now uses the powers granted by these to fight against the evil, and every day fights an internal battle against the evils within him.  Also, prior to taking the Vow of Poverty, he read one of each +5 tome.

Read Books: Str/Dex/Con/Int/Wis+5 (lvl 18)
Received Fiendish Grafts: 
2X Fast Legs (+20 Movement)
Membranous Wings (Fly at double land speed, fire/cold resist 10)
Fiendish Skin (+1 natural armour)
[/sblock]
All I loose in an antimagic field is True seeing, Exalted Strike(+8 hit/damage), and 19 AC, leaving my attacks at +47 (1d6+15) and my AC at 60 in antimagic.  It's what the character's made for.


----------



## Shayuri (May 16, 2008)

I'd never claim to design rings around anyone in epic play. I think pixie will be fun to play, but I won't be setting any records for AC, to hit, damage, or any of that. I'm a bit concerned, in fact, that my fort save is too low...but I'm outta money and don't want to sacrifice any class levels...so I'll just have to take the risk.


----------



## Arabesu (May 17, 2008)

Hey. I know the deadline has done and gone, but are you at all interested in a new player. The title suggested as much, although no flag. I also thought that someone dropped at the last minute a few weeks ago.

I am pretty sure I can have something ready by tomorrow afternoon or Sunday morning at the latest. I can be pretty fast.

Ask around if you feel you need a reference I have been a routine poster on these PdB sections for several months and a couple of your other players know me. I tried to get in Jemal's game but it filled up before I could read the backlogs.

Either way, thanks for your consideration.


----------



## Albedo (May 17, 2008)

Arabesu and Darimaus, lets see what you guys can come up with. A few other players need a few days anyways.

Jemal: Exalted feats are supernatural, you lose all of them, including vow of povery, in an antimagic field.

All: Since starting is gonna be delayed, I want everyone to submit their world names and we can vote before we start.


----------



## Shayuri (May 17, 2008)

World name:

Tyrias


----------



## Jemal (May 17, 2008)

If that's the case, then why do the abilities granted by vow of poverty have their types listed? (Extraordinary/Supernatural) Meh, yer the boss I guess.

World name suggestion from Rogue's Gallery submission: Azhara


----------



## Arabesu (May 17, 2008)

Wold Name: Ambitrath

Character concept: Yens Halfulfen revisited, advanced to epic proportions. Two weapon fight'n rogue/swashbuckler with lots of sneak attack, using enhanced deathguard bracers and penetrating strikes to sneak the those that can't be critical'ed. Probably will wield matching blades: Hate and Love, advanced sun-swords.


----------



## Albedo (May 17, 2008)

Arabesu said:
			
		

> Wold Name: Ambitrath
> 
> Character concept: Yens Halfulfen revisited, advanced to epic proportions. Two weapon fight'n rogue/swashbuckler with lots of sneak attack, using enhanced deathguard bracers and penetrating strikes to sneak the those that can't be critical'ed. Probably will wield matching blades: Hate and Love, advanced sun-swords.





k, hate to interfere, but I am not allowing the further enhancements of preexisting  weapons sorry.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 17, 2008)

World name: Caratas


----------



## Jemal (May 17, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> World name: Caratas



Demon bar hosted by empathic green metrosexual? (from the TV series Angel)


----------



## Walking Dad (May 17, 2008)

Oops, didn't know this.

New idea: Artisia


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 17, 2008)

Suggested World Name: Tahal’ from rogues gallery

@ WD -  When I was a movie extra, I got to know lots a girls from Artisia, (its a town in southern Califonia next to L.A.).


----------



## Walking Dad (May 17, 2008)

Aaargh, forget it. Is their a name not already taken?

New: Dorinthia (please let this be an original...)


----------



## Jemal (May 17, 2008)

well Actually..
*L* j/k

So Albedo, how's things looking?  Who are we waiting on to do what?


----------



## Albedo (May 18, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> well Actually..
> *L* j/k
> 
> So Albedo, how's things looking?  Who are we waiting on to do what?




Hmmmm..... well at first glance I suppose the biggest problem I see would be the fact that my rogues gallery has a whole 2 submissions in it. Secondly would be the fact that the vote for the world name has yet to be done. Thirdly we have 2 new submissions, though they can be added later if we start, as longs as the first 2 problems are dealt with.


----------



## Arabesu (May 18, 2008)

Sorry, the characters in the rogue's gallery have me a bit intimidated at a glance. I don't quite get the sheer number of attacks or damage per round (3000?) so I was trying to up my game to bring a better PC. You suggested that you aren't accepting specific items that have furhter enhancements, although I noticed Vertexx69's character has them, but I'm having trouble meeting the AC requirement with the maximum dex bonus from all armors. If I could just get the dex cap to 14 or 15 I'd be set.

Anyway, here are the items, I haven't even checked to see if it exactly comes over or under 10k and just ballparked as I went, since I figure there will revisions. Rest of the PC pretty much falls into place once I figure out the items.

[sblock=items: ]Items:

Heward’s handy haversack (2000, DMG p259) + ???? (something suitably epic ☺  )

Rings: Universal Elemental Immunity (2,160,000, Epic, p136)

Rings: Ring of Negative Protection (36,000) + Deflection +5 (50,000, MIC 234)
86,000

Eyes: Third Eye of  Conceal (120,000 MIC p) + Intelligence +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
156,000

Head: Helm of Brilliance (125,000) + Wisdom +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
161,000

Belt: Belt of Battle (12,000, MIC p73) + Spare Hand (12000, MIC p137)*1.5 + something else?
30,000

Boots: Boots of Speed (12,000*1.5, DMG 250) and teleportation (49,000, DMG 350)
67,000

Shoulders: Cloak of Displacement, Major (50,000, DMG 253) + Charisma +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
86,000

Throat: Scarab of Invulnerability (40,000, MIC 132) + Constitution +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
76,000

Torso: Mantle of Epic Spell resistance (290,000, Epic p146) + resistance +5 (25,000, MIC 234)
315,000

Hands: Shadow hands of the master (45,000, Bo9s p150) + Dexterity +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
81,000

Arms: Tigerclaw Bracers of the master (45,000, Bo9s p150) + Deathstrike Bracers (5000, MIC 93)*1.5 + Strongarm Bracers (6000, MIC p139)*1.5 + Strength +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
97500

Armor: Armor of the Celestial Battalion – 616,300 (+7chain, +10dex, + fly)
	W/ greater augment crystal of stamina (2,700, MIC p26)

Weapons: 

Love (short sword)
Adamantine +3000 (MIC p27), Everbright +2000 (MIC p34), Martial Discipline (shadow hand, tiger claw; Bo9s p148) +2, Defending +1 (DMG p224), +10 enhancement
	= 3,385,000

Hate (short sword)
Adamantine +3000 (MIC p27), Everbright +2000 (MIC p34) Martial Discipline (shadow hand, tiger claw; Bo9s p148) +2, Viscious +1 (DMG p227), Wounding +2 (DMG p226), +8 enhancement
= 3,385,000

Permanent Spells: Enlarge Person (???)

Manual of bodily health +5 (137,500 DMG 261)
Manual of gainful exercise +5 (137,500 DMG 262)
Manual of quickness +5 (137,500 DMG 262)
Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500 DMG 268)
Tome of leadership and influence +3 (82,500 DMG 268)
Tome of understanding +5 (137,500 DMG 268)

[/sblock]


----------



## Albedo (May 18, 2008)

Sorry, I missed the specifics in Vertexx's long list of enhancements.

Vertexx: No enhancing specific weapons/armors please.

Alos, some of your items aren't matching their gp costs. 

Hewards Handy Haversack is 2,000gp, not 1,800
Portable hole is 20,000 gp, not 9,000

I want you to go through your list again and recheck all your items. Alos please make sure you have book and page numbers for all items, theres a few in there that don't seem to have enhancements listed in that regard.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 19, 2008)

...my whole concept was based off of the enhanced beastclaws (from my first post). I'll have to think about an alternative or whatever...


----------



## Shayuri (May 19, 2008)

Added to RG, with page references.


----------



## Arabesu (May 19, 2008)

> Gold: You guys start with 10,000,000gp, but over half of it needs to be spent on a single item.




So can I have this apply to his matching pair of swords? 

Otherwise they will need to be somewhat asymmetric in power level, obviously, and wouldn't fit the dual wielding concept so well. I am penalized in the first place, having to divide up my resources to buy two epic weapons, which is turning out to be pretty tough to work around.


----------



## Arabesu (May 19, 2008)

*nearly done*

I'm nearly done, making good progress, only maneuvers and tightning up left to do.

Items still need much more work, but I'm trying to figure out how to make two-weapon fighting work. I'm a bit over and the "one item must be 5 mil" is not yet satisfied. I will try to figure it out tonight.

Otherwise, I could use any help anyone has with regard to the rest. Particularly with AC and saves and skills and overall predicted durability.

Thanks.

[sblock= Yens Halfulfen]*Yens Halfulfen,* Male Shifter (humanoid, shapechanger), CG
Rogue 4, Fighter 4, Swashbuckler 13, Weretouched Master 5, Swordsage 4.

[sblock=progression: ] 
1 – Rogue, Longtooth elite (RoEb)
2 – Swashbuckler, weapon finesse
3 – Swashbuckler, shifter ferocity
4 – Fighter, Two weapon fighting 
5 – Rogue 
6 – Rogue, Daring Outlaw
7 – Fighter, Weapon Focus (bite)
8 – Fighter
9 – Fighter, Spec. (Bite) and Daring Warrior and Imp. Two weapon fighting.
10 – Swashbuckler 
11 – Swashbuckler, Greater Two W.F.	
12 – Swashbuckler, Fierce mind
13 – Swashbuckler, Improved Init.
14 – Swashbuckler
15 – Swashbuckler, Melee Weapon.  Mastey, Piercing and reactive shifting
16 – Swashbuckler, 
17 – Swashbuckler, Quickdraw and shifter multi-attack 
18 – Swashbuckler
19 – Swashbuckler, Improved Critical (sh. Sword)
20 – Rogue, penetrating strike alt.
21 – Swordsage, Epic Reflexes
22 – Weretouched master, 
23 – Weretouched master, extra shifter trait, beasthide 
24 – Weretouched master, “II”, Perfect two weapon fighting
25 – Weretouched master, beasthide elite 
26 – Weretouched master, “III”
27 – Swashbuckler, Fast Healing
28 – Swordsage
29 – Swordsage 
30 – Swordsage, Shadow Blade 
[/sblock]

*Description: * 

[sblock=Agenda: ] 
 [/sblock]

[sblock=Personality: ]
Chaotic Good
 [/sblock]

Space/Reach: 10 ft./10ft.
Move: 450 ft or 900 ft.; (30 or 60)*15

*HP: 2,667 or 3127 * (6+24*3/4+170*3/4+72*3/4+330/420)*5

*AC 74/80, touch 54/56, flat-footed 74/80 * (10, armor +15, natural +5/9, dex +14/16, swordsage +9, monk’s belt +10, deflection +5, insight +1, +5 island of blades)

*Special Qualities to be aware of:*
Spell Resistance 40, opponents have 50% miss chance, DR 15/adamantine, immune to negative dominant trait and negative levels, evasion, uncanny dodge, can’t be flanked, resist acid/cold/electricity/fire/sonic 30, immune to detection by divinations or mental influence.

Init +18/20

BAB: +19/
Grapple: +28/30

*Fort +35/36* (BASE=13, + con 13/4, resistance +5, +1 luck, +1 competence, + 5 epic)
*Ref +39/41* (BASE=9, + dex 14/17, + grace +2, + resistance +5, +1 luck, +1 competence, +5 epic, +4 epic feat)
*Will +27* (BASE=6, + wis 9, + resistance +5, +1 luck, +1 competence,  +5 epic)
- may use the 1/day lucky ability to reroll a failed save.
- +5 versus saves for disease or poison, and can reroll 1/day.

[sblock=Abilities; ability checks are at modifier +2 luck/competence]
Str 26/30 (15 + 5 inherent, + 6 item + 0/4 shifting)
Dex 38/42 (18 + 2 race, + 5 inherent, +7 raises, + 6 item + 0/4 shifting)
Con 26/28 (15 + 5 inherent, + 6 item + 0/2 shifting)
Int 26 (17 - 2 race, + 5 inherent, + 6 item) 
Wis 28 (17 + 5 inherent, + 6 item)
Cha 14 (8 - 2 race + 2 inherent, + 6 item)
[/sblock]

*Melee Attacks* 

Love: +54/49/44/39 for 1d6 + 49/53 + 11d6 sneak attack + 1d6 fire from helm. (19 bab, +14/16 dex, +1 weapon focus, +2 piercing mastery, +4 martial ability, +8 enhancement, +5 epic, +1 competence); 

OR

Hate: +52/47/42/37 for 3d6 + 47/51 + 11d6 sneak attack + 1d6 fire from helm. (19 bab, +14/16 dex, +1 weapon focus, +2 piercing mastery, +4 martial ability, +6 enhancement, +5 epic, +1 competence); Also wounding, and deals 1d6 per hit to self.

Full Attack w/ shifting and two weapon fighting, with haste:
Love: +55/55/50/45/40 (1d6+53+11d6+1d6 fire)
Hate: +52/47/42/37 (3d6+43+11d6+1d6 fire, wounding, 1d6 to self)
Bite: +41 (1d8+21, wounding)

Note, if tiger claw strike used, additional +3 to attack.

*Ranged Attack* 

??????

[sblock=Racial Features: ]Shifting (longtooth, 4/day, 19 rounds, natural armor +4, +4 strength and dex, +2 con, 1d8 + 21 (wounding) bite with +1 for weapon focus, or 1d8 + 16 as off hand at net -1, heal 30 hp at end of shifting, [/sblock]

[sblock=Class Abilities: ]sneak attack +9d6, trapfinding, evasion, penetrating strike (dungeonscape p???, rogue alternate class ability that replaces trap sense; gives ½ sneak attack to un-sneakables, but only if flanking), uncanny dodge, bonus feats, grace +2, insightful strike (+ int to damage), island of blades (PHBII, alternate swashbuckler class ability that replace the dodge bonus), acrobatic charge, improved flanking (+4), lucky, acrobatic skill mastery, weretouched I (wolf: + 2 dex and improve bite) II (scent and wolf’s trip ability) and III (+2 str, dex, con), bonus shifter feats, alternate form (dire wolf). [/sblock]

[sblock=Feats (shifter in bold): ]Longtooth Elite (RoE p114), Weapon Finesse (swashbuckler bonus), Healing Factor (RoE p114), Two Weapon Fighting, Daring Outlaw (CoSco), Weapon Focus (Bite and Shadow hand weapons), Weapon Specialization (Bite), Daring Warrior (CoSco), Improved Two Weapon Fighting, Greater Two Weapon Fighting, Fierce Mind (DR355 p76), Improved Initiative, Reactive Shifting (RoE p115), Quickdraw, Shifter Multiattack (Eb p60), Improved Critical (shortsword), Epic Reflexes, Extra shifter trait (beasthide), Perfect Two Weapon Fighting, Beasthide Elite, Shadow Blade; Alertness (stone)[/sblock]

[sblock=Languages: ]Common, Giant, Sylvan, Elven.[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills: ]
(258; tome read at 16th character level, i.e. 216+42)
	
	



```
needs competence from iouon stone factored in, not done yet…

				ranks 	+ modifiers 	+ ability 	= total
Balance                                   5 	+ 5 		+ 13/15 	= +23/+25
Bluff                                   	24 	+ 1 		+ 2 		= +27
Climb				5	+ 3		+ 14/16	= +22/24
Concentration                    	0  	+ 1 		+ 13/14	= +14/15
Diplomacy			0 	+ 5 		+ 2 		= +7
Disable Device		10	+3		+8		= +21
Gather information               	0 	+ 1 		+ 2 		= +3
Hide                                       	12 	+ 1 or 21 	+ 14/16	=  +48/50 or +68/70 (if invisible)
Jump                                       5 	+ 173 or 348 	+ 13/15 	= +191 or +368
Listen                                      33 	+ 3 		+ 9 		= +45
Move silently			32 	+ 1		+ 14/16	=  +48/50
Open locks			10	+3		+ 14/16	= +27/29
Sense motive                           5 	+ 1 		+ 9 		= +15
Search				10	+11		+ 8 		= +29
Spot                                         33 	+ 13 		+ 9		= +55
Swim                                       5 	+ 1 		+13/15  	= +47/49
Tumble                                    33	+ 13 		+ 14/16	= +60/62
Use Magic Device		18 	+1		+2		= +21
```
[/sblock]

[sblock=Skill tricks: ]Back on your feet, Speedy Ascent, Quick Swim, Twisted Charge (each 1/encounter)[/sblock]

[sblock=Items: ]
Heward’s handy haversack (2000, DMG p259) 

Rings: Major Spell Storing (200,000) + Spell Turning (98,280 DMG???)*1.5+ Acid Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234)
347,464

Rings: Weaponbreaking (600,000) + Ring of Negative Protection (36,000)*1.5 + Deflection +5 (50,000, MIC 234)
704,000

Eyes: Third Eye of  Conceal (120,000 MIC p) + Intelligence +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
156,000

Head: Helm of Brilliance (125,000) + Wisdom +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
161,000

Belt: Belt of Battle (12,000, MIC p73)*1.5 + Monk’s Belt (13,000 DMG )
31,000

Boots: Boots of Speed (12,000*1.5, DMG 250) and teleportation (49,000, DMG 350)
67,000

Shoulders: Cloak of Displacement, Major (50,000, DMG 253) + Electricity Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234) + Charisma +6 (36,000, MIC 234)

86,000

Throat: Scarab of Invulnerability (40,000, MIC 132) + Constitution +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
76,000

Torso: Mantle of Epic Spell resistance (290,000, Epic p146) + resistance +5 (25,000, MIC 234) + Cold Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234)
315,000

Hands: Shadow hands of the master (45,000, Bo9s p150) + Dexterity +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
81,000

Arms: Tigerclaw Bracers of the master (45,000, Bo9s p150)*1.5 + Deathstrike Bracers (5000, MIC 93)*1.5 + Strongarm Bracers (6000, MIC p139)*1.5 + Strength +6 (36,000, MIC 234) + Epic Armor +15 (2,250,000 Epic?????).
2,370,000

Body/Armor: Robe of Eyes (120,000 DMG????) + Sonic Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234)

Weapons: 4,850,000

Love (short sword)
Adamantine +3000 (MIC p27), Everbright +2000 (MIC p34), Martial Discipline (shadow hand, tiger claw; Bo9s p148) +2, Defending +1 (DMG p224), +8 enhancement
	= 2,425,000

Hate (short sword)
Adamantine +3000 (MIC p27), Everbright +2000 (MIC p34) Martial Discipline (shadow hand, tiger claw; Bo9s p148) +2, Viscious +1 (DMG p227), Wounding +2 (DMG p226), +6 enhancement
= 2,425,000

Permanent Spells: Greater Magic Fang on Bite, CL 20, +5 (???)

Manual of bodily health +5 (87,500 DMG 261)
Manual of gainful exercise +5 (137,500 DMG 262)
Manual of quickness +5 (137,500 DMG 262)
Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500 DMG 268)
Tome of leadership and influence +2 (55,000 DMG 268)
Tome of understanding +5 (137,500 DMG 268)
Luck Stone (20,000)
Pale Green Prism Iuoun Stone (30,000)
Dusty Rose Prism Iuoun Stone (5,000)
Iridescent Spindle Iuoun Stone (18,000)
Dark Blue Romboid Iuoun Stone (10,000)
Skin of Nimbleness (10,000)
Masterwork thieves tools (100)
Climber’s kit (80)


10,106,044 (Reduce shadow hands and tiger claw bracers to “scholar” get this it under and buy some stuff, like wands and scrolls, also can reduce tome of bodily health to +3)

Wands or Scrolls (for casting into ring): Energy Immunity (6th, Druid, MIC p80), Fly, Freedom of Movement, Improved Invisibility, Polymorph (CL 12), and Wraithstrike (2nd Wizard, MIC ). (Or scrolls of mindblank if item not allowed.)

Weapon augment crystals.
 [/sblock]

[sblock=Currency: ]
 [/sblock]

[sblock=Maneuvers (9+2 known, 6 readied): ]
(bold are typically readied): 

In progress, probably the 7th level shadow hand teleport, tiger claw extra attacks, flesh ripper, and a shadow hand ranged attack choke or something.

Stances: Assassin’s stance, Step of the dancing moth (probably).
 [/sblock]



[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (May 19, 2008)

Arabesu - Couple things.

First, he's allready said no to someone else who asked about spending the 5-million on 2 weapons (or on a double weapon).  I'd suggest investing your 5 mil into a str booster if you're a melee fighter.  That's a sweet str boost.(+24=5,760,000GP) 
As far as the rest of your equipment, I'd drop the Spell storing/Spell turning (Albedo has made a point of emphasizing the 'FIGHT, not SPELL' portion of this campaign) and changing that ring to just a Major Universal Elemental Resistance(216,000GP).  This would also allow you to save the money you spent buying resistance items on various body slots.

Thematically, balance-wise, and so forth I personally despise Third Eye Conceal and Weaponbreaking and any character that uses them, but I can't come up with a good reason numerically NOT to take them *grumble*
Ioun stones at Epic have always seemed like a gamble to me.  On the one hand they can be nice bonuses.  On the other, any epic character that decides to can destroy them all with ease.  Though if they do that they're not attacking you, I suppose. *shrug*  When I see an opponent with them, I think to myself "Hey, good place to aim those lower-end iterative attacks that need to roll a 20 to hit the character..."

Monk's Belt - This is hotly debated, I'm not sure what Albedo's takeon it is so far as this campaign goes, but most sane DM's don't allow it to add Wis to AC.

Third - Don't be intimidated by other characters, just make what you want and play it.  There's no "AC requirement".  Epic play usually devolves into one of two things (IMO) - They need a 1 to miss, or they need a 20 to hit.  All buffing your AC does if you're in the first category is lower the amount by which they can power attack.
*EDIT : Nevermind, I see by your 80 AC that you've gotten over it *L*

Also, I might've missed it the first time you asked him, but where's Weretouched Master from?


----------



## Arabesu (May 19, 2008)

Very good suggestions, Jemal.

The problem is, I can't punch through DR/Epic without +6 or better weapons... so I may need to revise to figure out if that is important. Probably I will just have to revamp the whole "matching swords" idea. Maybe take one really good one to use as primary and then something cheap as off hand.

I was hoping that some spellcasting would be allowed, otherwise all those ranks in UMD are going to waste. Without any spellcasting, that makes your particular build even stronger, but makes most other builds much weaker. Without any spellcasters it will all be straight Bo9s and Forsaker builds. 

I thought that the spell storing is a nice way to use the UMD, burn a few wand charges or a couple of scrolls to get those spells collated into one nice neat package that can be accessed without having to drop swords.

I'm trying to avoid excessive strength boost. Dex boost on the other hand might be pretty good. I will have to consider. He is designed to be finesse fighter; more and more, DND just doesn't help fast fighters as much as it favors musclebound fighters.

As to the stone, I guess I figure that they're cheep enough... plus, hitting one of my stones is going to be hard since they're AC is good due to being fine and getting bonuses based off of touch ac. Yens' touch ac is pretty good. If the bad guys are really going to try to rally their "cinematic" actions to be swipe stones I'd be surprised.

As to third eye conceal, Yens' Will save is VERY bad for level 30 play. There just aren't good ways to boost it. So I had to think long and hard about it, and this was the best I could come up with. Do you have a better item to suggest for that price that would provide a similar defense?


----------



## Jemal (May 19, 2008)

Oh he's allowing spellcasting, he's just stated (repeatedly) that he wants the emphasis on cinematic fight scenes, not spells.

My problem with third eye conceal isn't that there's anything better, or that it's not needed.  My problem with it is that Mind Blank is on the top ten list of things even I find broken.  Complete Immunity to all mental based effects and Divinations that 'gather information' (Which is what divinations do).  Can't be beat by WISH or MIRACLE.  Add ring of Invis and laugh at the guy who spent years training his Hide skill, b/c True Sight/See Invis can't detect you.  Glitterdust/Invisibility Purge will work, but honestly how many epic characters walk around with that ready when see invis/true sight is so easy to get?

Also..







> As to the stone, I guess I figure that they're cheep enough... plus, hitting one of my stones is going to be hard since they're AC is good due to being fine and getting bonuses based off of touch ac. Yens' touch ac is pretty good. If the bad guys are really going to try to rally their "cinematic" actions to be swipe stones I'd be surprised.




DMG page 261 : Ioun stones have AC 24, 10 Hit Points, and Hardness 5


----------



## Shayuri (May 20, 2008)

It's worth pointing out that the Third Eye of Conceal makes you immune to mind affecting effects, but does NOT include the anti-divination attributes of Mind Blank.

There's also some debate over whether or not Mind Blank will stop something like See Invis from working...I've always thought it didn't...but I can see the logic of the opposing argument.


----------



## Jemal (May 20, 2008)

From D20SRD.ORG: 


> While worn, a third eye conceal protects the wearer from view by all devices, powers, and spells that detect, inf luence, or read emotions or thoughts. This power protects against all mind-affecting powers and effects *as well as information-gathering by clairsentience powers or effects (except for metafaculty); this item affects the wearer as if he enjoyed the benefit of the psionic mind blank power.*




Seems like it's got it all, unless Psionic Mind Blank's weaker than the magic version.


----------



## Arabesu (May 20, 2008)

MIC version reads almost identically, even down to referencing metafaculty.


----------



## Albedo (May 20, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> ...my whole concept was based off of the enhanced beastclaws (from my first post). I'll have to think about an alternative or whatever...




Vertexx, I don't mean to sound mean or anything, but thank you for proving why I hate enhancing preexisting weapons and why I shall be saying no to yours. You tried to enhance a pair of weapons as a single weapon. Not happening. Since their is no easy way of progressing the cost of the weapons, and since you apparently thought that sinced they were priced as a single item, the enhancement rules wouldn't multiply, I am not a huge fan of this concept. You are going to have to do a major equipment overhaul. 

If you want enhanced claws, the standard and legit way of doing it is an amulet of mighty fists, or in your case it would be cheaper going with a Necklace of Natural Weapons (savage species). The price will still be essentially the same as if you had the 2 weapons, but since its a single item, it would be capable of fulfilling the single item worth 5 mil clause, and since you already have claws you still fight the same way. 

Another option would be altered spiked gauntlets to look like claws, but they wouldn't gain any of the extras the ones from savage species got, specifically the extra 1d6 damage.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 20, 2008)

Yah I was kranky last night when I wrote that. I have already changed the character and reposted it to the RG. I made some minor changes to some other stuff as well like having a CL 7 now instead of 1. I gave up some of his lower end attacks, but it makes him a bit more flexible I think. 

The things I didn't make page refs for are all from the SRD material. The wep mods you mentioned are all in reference to the "martial discipline" which I took 3 times for Tiger Claw, Diamond Mind and Devoted Spirit which now has a page ref added on the sheet.

I ended up putting the mods on a Necklace of Natural Weapons (for both his hands) but had take a -4 to hit and dmg per attack due to the cost multiplier.


----------



## Albedo (May 20, 2008)

whoops, sorry vertex. I found some extra info while I was checking your sheet, and changed my last post hoping nobody read it yet. Please re-read.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 20, 2008)

hehe, great minds and all that


----------



## Arabesu (May 20, 2008)

*Yens 3.0*

OK, here is a resubmission. no two weapon fighting, just made him a chain fighter instead. Also, bumped up the swashbuckler in place of weretouched which was just weak. High level swash gives slippery mind which allows for dextrous will, which is very useful.

Question: How much would a CL20 permanent 3rd level spell cost? I can't find the formula.

Anyway, tell me what you think.

[sblock]*Yens Halfulfen,* Male Shifter (humanoid, shapechanger), CG
Rogue 4, Fighter 4, Swashbuckler 18 (CoWar p12), Swordsage 4 (Bo9s p16).

[sblock=progression: ] 
1 – Rogue, Longtooth elite
2 – Swashbuckler, weapon finesse
3 – Swashbuckler, Fierce mind
4 – Fighter, Exotic Weapon Prof. – Spike Chain 
5 – Rogue 
6 – Rogue, Daring Outlaw
7 – Fighter, Weapon Focus (bite)
8 – Fighter
9 – Fighter, Spec. (Bite) and Daring Warrior and Power Attack
10 – Swashbuckler 
11 – Swashbuckler, Cleave	
12 – Swashbuckler, extra shifter trait, beasthide
13 – Swashbuckler, Improved Init.
14 – Swashbuckler
15 – Swashbuckler, Melee Weapon.  Mastery, Piercing and reactive shifting
16 – Swashbuckler, 
17 – Swashbuckler, Combat Reflexes 
18 – Swashbuckler, and beasthide elite
19 – Swashbuckler, Combat Expertise
20 – Rogue, penetrating strike alt.
21 – Swashbuckler, Epic Reflexes
22 – Swashbuckler, Improved Trip		
23 – Swashbuckler, 
24 – Swashbuckler, Improved Disarm and Dextrous Will
25 – Swashbuckler, 
26 – Swashbuckler, Foe Catcher
27 – Swordsage, Fast Healing
28 – Swordsage
29 – Swordsage 
30 – Swordsage, Shadow Blade 
[/sblock]

*Description: * 

[sblock=Agenda: ] 
 [/sblock]

[sblock=Personality: ]
Chaotic Good
 [/sblock]

Space/Reach: 5 ft./5ft (15ft. w/ chain)
Move: 450 ft or 900 ft.; (30 or 60)*15

*HP: 2,360 * (6+24*3/4+220*3/4+32*3/4+240)*5

*AC 69/74, touch 54/55, flat-footed 69/74 * (10, armor +15, natural +5/9, dex +14/15, swordsage +8, monk’s belt +9, deflection +5, insight +1, shield +2)
Also, +4 melee dodge versus one opponent.

*Special Qualities to be aware of:*
Spell Resistance 40, opponents have 50% miss chance, DR 15/adamantine, immune to negative dominant trait and negative levels, evasion, uncanny dodge, can’t be flanked, resist acid/cold/electricity/fire/sonic 30, immune to detection by divinations or mental influence.

Init +19/20

BAB: +19
Grapple: +28

*Fort +32* (BASE=13, + con +7, resistance +5, +1 luck, +1 competence, + 5 epic)
*Ref +40/41* (BASE=9, + dex 14/15, + grace +3, + resistance +5, +1 luck, +1 competence, +5 epic, +4 epic feat)
*Will +26* (BASE=6, + wis 8, + resistance +5, +1 luck, +1 competence,  +5 epic)
- may use the 1/day lucky ability to reroll a failed save.
- +5 versus saves versus death effects, and can reroll 1/day.

[sblock=Abilities; ability checks are at modifier +2 luck/competence]
Str 26/ (15 + 5 inherent, + 6 item + 0/4 shifting)				= +8/
Dex 38/40 (18 + 2 race, + 5 inherent, +7 raises, + 6 item + 0/4 shifting)	= +14/15
Con 26 (15 + 5 inherent, + 6 item + 0/2 shifting)				= +8
Int 26 (17 - 2 race, + 5 inherent, + 6 item) 					= +8
Wis 26 (17 + 3 inherent, + 6 item)						= +8
Cha 14 (8 - 2 race + 2 inherent, + 6 item)					= +2
[/sblock]

*Melee Attacks* 

Full Attack w/ Lifelink w/ haste: +57*/57/52/47/42 for 2d6 + 46 + 13d6 sneak attack + 1d6 fire from helm + wounding + 1d6 or 2d6 sacred; (strength +12, dex +14, intelligence +8, enhancement +10, piercing mastery +2)
*(19 bab, +14 dex, +1 weapon focus, +2 piercing mastery, +4 martial ability, +10 enhancement, +5 epic, +1 competence, +1 haste); Note, if tiger claw strike used, additional +3 to attack (martial ability) and +8 to damage.


Full Attack w/ shifting, haste, and raging mongoose:
Lifelink: +61/61/61/61/56/51/46 (2d6+55+13d6+1d6fire +1d6/2d6sacred+wounding)
Bite: +43/43/43 (1d8+44+13d6+wounding)

*Ranged Attack* 
Throw Lifelink or burn them with helm of brilliance if they stay too far away!

[sblock=Racial Features: ]Shifting (longtooth, 3/day, 17 rounds, natural armor +4, +2 dex, 1d8 + 8 (level) + special/mastery/magic/str/dex/int/wis? (wounding) bite with +1 for weapon focus[/sblock]

[sblock=Class Abilities: ] Sneak attack +11d6, trapfinding, evasion, penetrating strike (dungeonscape p???, rogue alternate class ability that replaces trap sense; gives ½ sneak attack to un-sneakables, but only if flanking), uncanny dodge, bonus feats, grace +3, insightful strike (+ int to damage), melee dodge +4, acrobatic charge, improved flanking (+4), lucky, acrobatic skill mastery, weakening critical, slippery mind, quick to act +1, discipline focus (shadow hand weapon focus), AC bonus, discipline focus (tiger claw insightful strike). [/sblock]

[sblock=Feats (shifter in bold): ]Longtooth Elite (RoE p114), Weapon Finesse (swashbuckler bonus), Fierce Mind (DR355 p76), Exotic Weapon Proficiency (spiked chain), Daring Outlaw (CoSco), Weapon Focus (Bite and Shadow hand weapons), Weapon Specialization (Bite), Daring Warrior (CoSco), Power Attack, Cleave, Extra shifter trait (beasthide) (RoE p114), Improved Initiative, Reactive Shifting (RoE p115), Combat Expertise, Beasthide Elite (Eb p51), Combat Reflexes, Epic Reflexes, Improved Trip, Improved Dissarm, Foe Catcher, Dextrous Will, Shadow Blade[/sblock]

[sblock=Languages: ]Common, Giant, Sylvan, Elven.[/sblock]

[sblock=Skills: ]
(258; tome read at 16th character level, i.e. 216+42)
	
	



```
needs competence from iouon stone factored in, not done yet…

				ranks 	+ modifiers 	+ ability 	= total
Balance			5 	+ 6 		+ 13/15 	= +24/+25
Bluff				5 	+ 2 		+ 2 		= +9
Climb				5	+ 4		+ 8		= +17
Concentration			19  	+ 2 		+ 8		= +29
Diplomacy			0 	+ 6 		+ 2 		= +8
Disable Device		12	+ 4		+ 8		= +24
Gather information		0 	+ 2 		+ 2 		= +4
Hide 				33 	+ 2 or 22 	+ 14/16	=  +49/50 or +69/70 (if invisible)
Jump 				5 	+ 174 or 349 	+ 8 		= +187 or +364
Listen				11 	+ 2 		+ 8 		= +21
Move silently			33 	+ 2		+ 14/16	=  +49/50
Open locks			10	+ 4		+ 14/16	= +28/29
Sense motive			5 	+ 2 		+ 8		= +15
Search				10	+12		+ 8 		= +30
Spot				33 	+12 		+ 8		= +53
Swim				5 	+ 2 		+ 8	  	= +15
Tumble			33	+14 		+ 14/16	= +61/62
Use Magic Device		16 	+2		+ 2		= +20
```
[/sblock]

[sblock=Skill tricks: ]Back on your feet, Speedy Ascent, Quick Swim, Twisted Charge (each 1/encounter)[/sblock]

[sblock=Items: ]
Heward’s handy haversack (2000, DMG p259) 

Rings: Spell Storing (50,000) + Acid Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234) + Force Shield (8500, DMG ???)*1.5 + Freedom of movement (40,000, DMG p???)*1.5
347,464

Rings: Ironskin (400,000) + Ring of Negative Protection (36,000)*1.5 + Invisibility (20,000, DMG???)*1.5 + Deflection +5 (50,000, MIC 234)
734,000

Eyes: Third Eye of  Conceal (120,000 MIC p) + Intelligence +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
156,000

Head: Helm of Brilliance (125,000) + Wisdom +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
161,000

Belt: Belt of Battle (12,000, MIC p73)*1.5 + Monk’s Belt (13,000 DMG )
31,000

Boots: Boots of Speed (12,000*1.5, DMG 250) and teleportation (49,000, DMG 350)
67,000

Shoulders: Cloak of Displacement, Major (50,000, DMG 253) + Electricity Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234) + Charisma +6 (36,000, MIC 234)

86,000

Throat: Scarab of Invulnerability (40,000, MIC 132) + Constitution +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
76,000

Torso: Mantle of Epic Spell resistance (290,000, Epic p146) + resistance +5 (25,000, MIC 234) + Cold Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234)
315,000

Hands: Gauntlets of Throwing (2000, MIC 104) + Gloves of Dexterity +6 (36,000, MIC 234)
81,000

Arms: Deathstrike Bracers (5000, MIC 93)*1.5 + Strongarm Bracers (6000, MIC p139)*1.5 + Strength +6 (36,000, MIC 234) + Epic Armor +15 (2,250,000 Epic?????).
2,370,000

Armor Augment Crystal (worn on Bracers: Greater Crystal of Lifekeeping (5000, MIC p26)

Body/Armor: Robe of Eyes (120,000 DMG????) + Sonic Resist 30 (44,000 MIC p234)

Weapons: 5,43,300

Lifelink (spiked chain)
Large Adamantine +6000 (MIC p27), Everbright +2000 (MIC p34), Martial Discipline (shadow hand, tiger claw; Bo9s p148) +2, Defending +1 (DMG p224), Wounding +2 (DMG p226), Sacred (MIC p40ish), +10 enhancement
	= 5,125,000

Weapon Augment Crystals: Greater Truedeath (10,000 MIC p66), Greater Fiendslayer (5,000 MIC p65), Greater Demolition (6000, MIC p65), Greater Security (3000, MIC p65, generally starts Lifelink with this one until undead or constructs or outsiders are encountered)

Permanent spells: Greater Magic Fang on Bite, (????)

Manual of bodily health +5 (87,500 DMG 261)
Manual of gainful exercise +5 (137,500 DMG 262)
Manual of quickness +5 (137,500 DMG 262)
Tome of clear thought +5 (137,500 DMG 268)
Tome of leadership and influence +2 (55,000 DMG 268)
Tome of understanding +3 (137,500 DMG 268)
Luck Stone (20,000)
Pale Green Prism Iuoun Stone (30,000)
Dusty Rose Prism Iuoun Stone (5,000)
Iridescent Spindle Iuoun Stone (18,000)
Skin of Nimbleness (10,000)
Masterwork thieves tools (100)
Climber’s kit (80)
Wand of Fly (50 ch., 11,250)
Wand of Wraithstrike (50 ch., 4500, Spell compendium ???)
Wand of Enlarge Person (50 ch. 750)
Scrolls of Extended Improved Invisibility (X10, 11,250)
Scrolls Energy Immunity (X10, 16,500)

9,989,173
 [/sblock]

[sblock=Currency: ]
 [/sblock]

[sblock=Maneuvers (9 known, 4 readied): ]
(bold are typically readied): 

Claw at the moon (2nd, taken at SS1, dropped at fourth)
Shadow Blink (7th, taken at SS1)
*Stalker in the Night *(6th, taken at SS1)
*Inferno Blade* (7th, taken at SS1)
Ring of Fire (6th, taken at SS1)
*Desert Tempest* (6th, taken at SS1)
Dancing Mongoose (5th, taken at SS1)
*Girralon Windmill Flesh Rip *(8th, taken at SS2)
*Raging Mongoose *(8th, taken at SS3)
Swooping Dragon Strike (7th, taken at SS4)

Stances:  Assassin’s stance and Balance on the Sky (shadow).
 [/sblock]


[/sblock]


----------



## Shayuri (May 20, 2008)

Questions and observations:

Can armor crystals be used in Bracers of Armor?

How is your Monk's Belt giving you +9 to AC? You already have your Wis to AC from Swordsage. Pretty sure even if this does give wis to AC, it wouldn't let you do it twice, any more than taking a level of monk and a level of ninja let you do it twice. 

He's using a Large chain? How's that work?

The Ring of Force Shield doesn't let you get the shield bonus while using a 2 handed weapon. Just something to bear in mind. You could flick it on and off real fast, but on a round you attack with the weapon, you still couldn't get the shield bonus. 

With Shadow Blade, there is a point of disagreement between descriptions. It would be useful to get GM clarification. Shadow Blade lets you add Dex bonus to damage with a Shadow Hand weapon when in a Shadow Hand stance. One description says that this damage is -instead- of Str bonus, one doesn't say that. I've operated under the assumption that it's Dex instead of Str, in much the same way Weapon Finesse is Dex instead of Str...but I haven't read the errata, so I don't know for sure.

Those are the only things that jumped out at me that I couldn't work out so far. Looks pretty strong!


----------



## Jemal (May 20, 2008)

For the Dex to damage issue, I'm pretty sure Albedo said he doesn't use Eratta, if so you go to the old fall-back.  If text and chart contradict, text is correct.  At least that's usually been Wizards official stance.

As far as Bracers of Armour and Augment Crystals (I assume that's what you were referring to) yes, they do work together.  It specifically uses 'bracers of armour +1' as an example of something a lesser augment crystal would be able to fit into, and stats that they function on 'armour, shields, or any magic item that gives an armour bonus to AC'. Meaning you could put them on Robes of the Arch-Magi if you wanted.  

Also, Re: Force Shield.  It functions as if you were wielding a shield, so you'd loose any bonus to AC you get from being unarmoured, Such as monk (and Swordsage? don't know what it does..)

I can't really look over this character that much, As I've never used Bo9S, but there's my input.


----------



## Jemal (May 20, 2008)

Also, Arabesu...

There's no 'set formula' for buying permanent spells, but I do know how to figure it out using a combination of other formulae.

Permanency has a list of spells under it which can be made permanent on others (Which if you're hiring someone else to do, would be the only list available to you).  Each of them has an XP cost.

NOW, where the 'formula' part comes into play is thus : In several places throughout wizards books, it has been suggested/stated that 1XP payed to cast a spell is equivalent to 5 GP.  Thus, if the permanency you want costs 1000 XP, that would be 5,000 GP.  Mages usually charge twice what they payed for a spell (Looking at magic item creation), so that would translate to 10,000 gp.

PLUS you have to hire the same caster to cast both the spell AND the permanency.  If it's a 3rd level spell from a 20th lvl caster, then it's simple.  Refering to Page 129, PHB : Spellcasting and Services, it costs CLX(10Xspell level) to hire a caster to cast a single spell for you.

SO, that would cost 20X30=600 for the 3rd lvl spell, and 20X60=1200 for the permanency itself, totalling to 1800GP + cost for XP. + Any extra costs depending on which third level spell it is. (meaning if said spell has any xp cost or costly material component)


----------



## Shayuri (May 20, 2008)

Ahh, thanks for the clarification, Jemal. I didn't know that about augment crystals!

That makes them even better. Yee!


----------



## Albedo (May 20, 2008)

Arabesu: You've got the swordsage AC bonus wrong. It applies ONLY if you wear light armor (Hence it is impossible to stack it with the monk bonus).


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 21, 2008)

Also Arabesu: It says in both the monk (for monk's belt) and swordsage descriptions - no shield if you want the wisdom bonus to AC


----------



## Jemal (May 21, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Also, Re: Force Shield.  It functions as if you were wielding a shield, so you'd loose any bonus to AC you get from being unarmoured, Such as monk (and Swordsage? don't know what it does..)






			
				vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Also Arabesu: It says in both the monk (for monk's belt) and swordsage descriptions - no shield if you want the wisdom bonus to AC



Great minds.


----------



## Albedo (May 21, 2008)

Ok, lots of random question loating around here, lets see if I can answer some of them.

Monks Belt = No Wisdom bonues to AC

Third Eye Conceal: SRD is trash, use the written version, which does not state anything about divination spells, only specifics. You can use true seeing/see invis on it.

Arabesu: I would like to know how you are using a large weapon. Also, magic item compendium is NOT the rules we are using for swapping enhancements, the DMG is. As such you have to pay 1.5 cost for adding enhancements to your items.

All: I forgot to add this rule. All magic items in this campaign reform after 24 hours if broken with no penalties. Ring of Weapon Breaking is included in this process.


----------



## Arabesu (May 21, 2008)

So then would a casting of the "shield" spell stack with what he has?

After dropping the ring bonus and the wisdom his AC is suddenly much worse. Kind of crummy for this level. Below 60. Oh well.

Strongarm bracers allow bigger weapons. They specifically don't stack with powerful build, but should stack with enlarge person, as far as I can tell, so once enlarged it will be huge.

I guess his ring of spell storing is going to have to store a shield and two wraithstrikes, rather than an enlarge person and two wraithstrikes, since I only want to spend one round of actions casting spells, IF I choose to cast a spell, since Albedo wants to de-emphasize spells. The swift spells will also be a tough decision since swift and immediate actions in this game are so valuable.

Jemal, I don't understand how your vow of poverty character gets into this campaign without a 5 mil item. How you do that? Doesn't that seem contradictory?


----------



## Jemal (May 21, 2008)

He used to have a 5 million dollar idol of Cthulu, which he donated to a church for destruction when he was deciding to mend his evil wicked ways.


----------



## Jemal (May 21, 2008)

And in actuality, Albedo's exact specifications were "You start with 10,000,000 GP but over half of it has to be spent on a single item."  It doesn't state "You have to HAVE a 5 million GP item and KEEP it", otherwise Vow of Poverty would be impossible.


----------



## Shayuri (May 21, 2008)

An AC of high 50's is workable. Pixie Power has normal AC of 59...it goes up a bit when she skirmishes, but not much...

And yes, casting Shield will work. Plus, if you cast Shield, you can use your Wisdom Bonus to AC again.


----------



## Arabesu (May 21, 2008)

Deleted because I really shouldn't post after a stiff drink, and I have made an a$$ of myself.


----------



## Jemal (May 21, 2008)

> Wow. Are you a lawyer? Perhaps your left foot is cloven and your smile wicked? That is such an interesting twist on what he intended and yet it still works. I applaud your aplomb. Now just don't sunder any of my magic stuff with your forsaker and we can be best friends.



Tell you what, cut the condescending bull or that's the first thing I'll do.

Considering the fact that Albedo has had no problems with my taking the Vow of Poverty, I highly doubt that you know 'what he intended'.  He gave us 10 million, which is MORE than DOUBLE the standard starting amount for this level and to balance that out somewhat, put a limit on it (One of the items has to be worth at least half).  This leaves you guys with a single VERY POWERFUL magic item, and STILL more money than a standard 30th level character starts with.  

And then you have the audacity to make a poorly veiled insult because I took a road that was designed with NON-EPIC gold values in mind?  I'm giving up EVEN MORE for this campaign than a standard vow of poverty character, and gaining nothing extra in return.
Don't get pissy just cuz I put work into making my character both powerful and flavourful instead of just going "Hey 13K for 10 AC, sold!"

I tend to take insults personally, and hate it when people take a condescending, holier-than-thou approach to things.  As such, I respond by becoming the very thing I despise.


----------



## Albedo (May 21, 2008)

Ok guys, cut this negetivity out right now. Fighting over semantics just gives me a blasted headache.

Arabesu: I hold VETO rights on anything I don't like. This swooping dragon thingy you mentioned would probably fall under this catagory. And honestly, the sad thing is I'm not taking out things I don't like, but more so taking out things that I believe will cause the gap between PC character concepts to widen to an uncrossable abyss. I couldn't care less about a DC 300 stun effect personally, but if the other PCs can't keep up, its not really fair. 

Your complaints about your stats aside, please remember that this is a writing based campaign, and that what your character does is what can close the gap between stats. 

And honestly, people pointing out certain mistakes in your character isn't their fault. Granted the monks belt is my ruling alone, but if you made some misjudgements when you read some of the rules its not their fault. I'm not saying its your either, but you can't really grumble about it.

You want some pointers on gaining higher AC? A few simple tricks work wonders. Why don't you switch your 5 mil item to a dex enhancer in order to increase your AC, Attack, and Initiative. The only penalty you would incur would be a decrease in damage, but honestly to get a little you need to give a little. Thats just one example. Plus a level or 2 in monk. People are willing to help, we're not just here to cut you down.


----------



## Arabesu (May 21, 2008)

Um, I was trying to be funny. Eek. Really. Wow. I guess my comment was not what I had intended.

I have removed it.


----------



## Shayuri (May 21, 2008)

Hoo...wait there. 

Tempers have flared...there were misunderstandings. It happens.

No need to back out, man. Lets all take a deep breath and not make any snap decisions here. 

C'mon...high level stuff can be frustrating. I feel the sting myself sometimes. The truth is that balance is an elusive beast at these levels. The best thing to do is to do the best you can, and if there's a problem then we can work it out once we have a better idea, through play, what it is.

Remember, we have -thousands- of hit points. A little undershot AC won't be nearly as big a deal in this game as it usually is. 

Anyway...just hoping there's no enduring hard feelings over what was, by all appearances, just a classic case of misunderstood net-communications.


----------



## Arabesu (May 21, 2008)

My sincere apologies go out to both to Jemal and Albedo. I meant not to offend the former or wreck the game of the later.

If you will still have me, I have posted to the RG.


----------



## Albedo (May 22, 2008)

k guys, I'm not quite done checking over characters, and there are still some things you guys are working on right now, but I really want to get started so I'm putting up the IC thread. Anyone still interested who is not done, I can add you later.

Btw, alot of you are still lacking specials. Please think on the matter.

Arabesu: You still haven't accounted for the fact that your swordsage bonus to AC requires you to be in light armor. You can either alter your gear, or I can change it to function in no armor as your specialty if you want (no stacking with monk though ) 

 Heres the link for the IC thread.


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> or I can change it to function in no armor as your specialty if you want (no stacking with monk though )




Yes, please. 



> alot of you are still lacking specials.




Perhaps I am just being daft, I don't know what you mean by this.


----------



## Jemal (May 22, 2008)

Arabesu - I'm no longer offended now that I know what's what.  My temper tends to flare when I feel insulted (Whether such was the intention or not), but I don't hold a grudge past a day or so unless there's good reason to.  Far as I'm concerned, We're good to go.

Albedo - Sorry for the temporary Disruption we may have caused.  My character seems ready, though I may wish to do a minor revision or two.  I'm having troubles with the feat selection, been going back and forth between a few of them.. 

As for a 'special thing', I remember that from somewhere, but upon reading back through the thread, I can't find any mention of it in this campaign.  I know several DM's (Myself included) do something similar, but perhaps you'd thought about it and never actually written it down. (Or perhaps I've just missed where it's posted).
In either case, what kind of 'power limit' are you wanting on these things, and should they be just minor changes to the rules, or are new, made-up things OK?  
Personally, if this is in the ballpark, I'd love to drop (Or perhaps replace?) some of the frenzied berserkers feat requirements.. I don't really see myself ever using Intimidating or destructive rage, but I like the class.

EDIT : Hmm.. Just thought about something after a talk with one of my room-mates -  Would you normally allow the 'Righteous Wrath' feat from Exalted Deeds to function on Frenzy (Specifically the part about "you maintain clarity of mind while raging, able to deal nonlethal damage, show mercy, and distinguish friend from foe."  Seems to me it SHOULD apply to Frenzy, as normal rage doesn't say anything about you not being able to do those things... so why else would they be listed.. But he says it was printed before Frenzied Berserker, and doesn't apply... I'm confused.)?

Shayuri - Thanks for that little 'cool-down pep talk'.


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

Meep. I thought we were assigned specials. If we have to choose them ourselves then Jemal's questions are echoed by me...

Can you give us some examples, to establish a baseline of comparison?

Also, I'm pretty sure the Swordsage bonus to AC doesn't -require- you to be wearing light armor. It just functions in -up to- light armor, but not in medium or heavier.

Edit - Actually, it does say "so long as." That strikes me as bizarrely weird though!

Edit edit - Hee...no worries, Jemal. I suspect I gunned the jump; you guys are adults after all...but I was alarmed. 

Edit edit edit - I read the IC thread. I am confused a little by the format. Are we supposed to be writing all our posts from the point of view of a narrator? I thought it was supposed to be third person nonomniscient?


----------



## Albedo (May 22, 2008)

Shayuri: You're favored class is sorc but you have 2 base classes, Scout and Swordsage. I'd say no XP penalty would probably be a good special for you.

Jemal: You can have the feat you want for your special, but only if you give up deathless frenzy.


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

You are correct sir. I had resigned myself to a penalty.

But your idea is great, and cheerfully accepted. 

Thanks!


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 22, 2008)

Yah, I'm gonna need an example of how we are suppossed to post in the IC thread. It seems to be very complicated. You don't want us to write what our characters are thinking or feeling, and you only want a minimum of dialog? Ok then lets bring on the combat! haha

I had just a couple more questions for the fluff equipment of Captain P. It has to do with the exact dimensions of his airship and the number siege weapons (cannons/balista/heavy catapult etc.) that can reasonably be fit on board. Does it have lower decks for tiered weapon placement?


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> Also, I'm pretty sure the Swordsage bonus to AC doesn't -require- you to be wearing light armor. It just functions in -up to- light armor, but not in medium or heavier.
> 
> Edit - Actually, it does say "so long as." That strikes me as bizarrely weird though!




This is what I thought as well, particularly since on p20 of Bo9s they suggest dropping "light armor profieciency in exchange for a monks unarmed strike" under the section titled Adaptation (I'm paraphrasing a little since I just glanced at my books on the way out of the house this morning). It would make no sense for a swordsage to take that option if they also didn't get their bonus.

This is the first campaign I've been it where an unarmored swordsage doesn't get the bonus.

Its also my first campaign above 21st level.

As I look over the character I realize the I have also taken a bunch of base classes. So I guess I need that "special" to be favored-multiclass swashbuckler rather than the swordsage bonus when unarmored. Clearly I have more work to do since I don't get two "specials."

Here is a question for anyone with more knowledge of the books than I:

Is there a feat that gives favored-multiclass? I only have one class out of balance so if I could have Yens take a *feat to give him favored multiclass swashbuckler* then I'd be set with relatively few changes. And I could keep the "special" that gives him swordsage bonus unarmored. Or I could just be "resigned to take the penalty" as Shay put it.   

Lastely, I have a question, for Vertexx69. Is Captain P looking for a Bosun? Yens is a well trained but semi-retired pirate (I am adding in the prof. sailor ranks that I forgot to take on my home copy and will post it on the site after I resolve the above questions.)

Now to take a look at the IC thread...


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

I want to say there is...but I don't recall what it is or where it's from. So...it's not much help. 

I know Eberron has a few feats that let paladins and monks multiclass... It may be Races of Destiny has a 'new favored class' feat. I don't have it, which would explain why I don't remember it well.

As for character background...is there room on that airship for a pixie scout? Tatter would be great at recon and so on. Nothing like a flying, invisible sprite to check stuff out! And she's good in a fight too.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 22, 2008)

Shayuri said:
			
		

> As for character background...is there room on that airship for a pixie scout? Tatter would be great at recon and so on. Nothing like a flying, invisible sprite to check stuff out! And she's good in a fight too.



Sure  Though I'd say an 800 pound, invisible (ring of sequestering) captain with flight speed of 4500/good (150/ring of solar wings- X2/boots of swiftness-X15) might be just as talented at scouting ;p


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Yes, I was remembering the Paladin and Monks free-multiclass feat. Just didn't know if there as a general feat for "make X class your new favored class." There should be. Probably. Definitely something I would implement in the PbP I run on this board.

As an aside I have discovered gnome-twist cloth from Races of Stone (p158). Basically I've been banging my head against this max-dex in armor thing, and this is the only base armor type that has max dex "-" i.e. as much as you want. It takes a feat, but Yens has them in spades. I'll think about that option, it is very attractive, particularly since its light.

Does anyone know of another base armor with a max-dex higher than padded (i.e. 8)?

Can't go celestial since its a specific armor...


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Sure  Though I'd say an 800 pound, invisible (ring of sequestering) captain with flight speed of 4500/good (150/ring of solar wings- X2/boots of swiftness-X15) might be just as talented at scouting ;p




Ooooo. Ring of Sequestering. That is a very good item. Will you stay invisible if you attack? I may have to push around some gold to upgrade my plain old ring of invisibility for sequestering. That is just too good to pass up for a roguish type.

Also, where is the eye patch of seeing from? I have to drop the robe if I take twistclothe, so I am trying to find a trueseeing replacement.


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

lol

That's actually the best argument against Tatter being a crewmember on your ship I could possibly imagine. Thanks for helping me decide. 

Arabesu, I think Albedo made a statement saying he'd be willing to change swordsage AC bonus so it worked when unarmored too. So you're fine with bracers.

I don't think Sequester is stated as being interrupted by attacks...though of course, the version in the PHB makes you comatose, so it's not really the kind of thing they were thinking about when writing it.   That said, I see no reason why the ring would shut off when you attack...it certainly isn't described as working that way.

Eye Patch of Seeing is in the MIC. Don't got the page ref. Should be on Ver's sheet though.

Oh, also, Albedo...this is kind of a fuzzy area, but I thought it'd be better to deal with it now than later. Regarding the epic Boots of Swiftness, there's a provision in their description where the doubling of speed specifically doesn't stack with magical or supernatural enhancements. Does this extend to magic items that grant movement forms ordinarily not possessed, like Climb, Flight, and Swim? Usually in 3.5 items, speed boosts are listed as flat increases rather than multiples...but the Boots of Swiftness are a holdover from a 3.0 product, so it's less clear.

Thanks!


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 22, 2008)

No the eye patch of seeing is just a gem of seeing, from the dmg, that I set into an eye patch so it technically takes up my eye spot, but my hands are free when I decide to use it. And it goes with my pirate theme 

@ arbuesu - I couldn't figure out where you were getting your 11d6 Sneak Attack dice from, since you're only a level 4 rogue and swash doesnt give you SA from what I can see. Maybe you forgot to change it as you were adjusting your character levels? Unless its those 2 draing feats from CScou, in which case 2 feats for +9d6 SA is a hell of a bargain 

The sequestering ring (ELH p. 136) specifically states that it works as the spell, but without the catatonia. And attacking does not break the spell as invisibilty does.


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Daring Outlaw Feat, from Complete Scoundrel.

http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=dnd/ex/20070105a&page=4


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Prior to that book coming out, Swashbuckler was lambasted as one of the weakest new base class, both online and in my home group. A guy in my home game tried playing one as soon as complete warrior came out, and while they are fun in flavor, their mechanics are significantly weaker than most else out there. 

I guess WOTC payed attention and gave them a big cooky when complete scoundrel came out.


----------



## Jemal (May 22, 2008)

I don't know, most of my high damage builds have some swashbuckler in them.  Int to damage @ 3rd level?  And not 'instead' of str, but in addition to.  Makes for a very nice dual-wielder.  And for anybody who says that just dipping into a class doesn't tell you how powerful it is, that's all I ever do with non caster base classes *L*  Multiclassing = power.

As for a feat for "choose your own" favoured multiclass, I've never heard of one, but if you're having a problem with it, I usually suggest playing Human.  Not only does it solve your multiclassing problem, it also GIVES you a bonus feat.  

Also, the "Only in light armour" part of Swordsage was ruled on by several different sources in different ways, very contradictory.  
It specifically states in the book "So long as you wear Light Armour, are unencumbered and do not use a shield"  as oppossed to the Monk's "When Unarmoured and Unencumbered and not carrying a shield".  Ironically this means the Swordsage is allowed to 'carry' a shield, so long as he does not use it, whereas the monk can't even do that. 

As for Sequester.. OK, that brings up the old mind blank/invis question.  Sequester essentially makes you immune to divinations and gives GREATER invisibility(If it doesn't break on attacks), so I'd like to know from the DM : Can a sequestered person be seen with See Invis or True sight, or are they blocked by the anti-divination part.  

Also, Albedo, I wouldn't trade Deathless Frenzy for a feat if I were drunk *L*.  It's worth far more than any of the feats I would replace it with.  I'll think on something else.


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

Blindsense and sight would still work on Sequester, I'd think...though there's ways around that too.

*hijack*Final Fantasy, Jemal. */hijack*


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Jemal said:
			
		

> Also, the "Only in light armour" part of Swordsage was ruled on by several different sources in different ways, very contradictory.
> It specifically states in the book "So long as you wear Light Armour, are unencumbered and do not use a shield"  as oppossed to the Monk's "When Unarmoured and Unencumbered and not carrying a shield".  Ironically this means the Swordsage is allowed to 'carry' a shield, so long as he does not use it, whereas the monk can't even do that.




Fair enough. Since I have found the gnomish twist armor I can make it work with light armor instead of the bracers, I just need to push around some gold. This will allay any concerns with regard to ruling. And I'll just dump the belt altogether, allaying any problems with that item as well.

I was a little concerned that there was no armor special ability that allows full dex, until I found the twistcloth armor.

I could switch to human as you suggest, but I'd rather bring old Yens back from the dead. And by dead, I am referring to the fact that I haven't updated my story hour in a while. In game he was very much alive and kicking a year ago.


Albedo: I would like to change my "special" to be: Favored Class Swashbuckler.

Thanks.


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

Mew. What book is twistcloth in again? or maybe you could sneak the stats up here? 

I could use it too...the light armor thing affects Tatterdemalion too...


----------



## Arabesu (May 22, 2008)

Its basically padded armor i.e. +1 AC, but 150 gp rather than whatever padded is, and has no maximum dexterity limit to armor class. Requires and exotic armor proficiency feat to use.

Races of Stone p158, i.e. the same book that the Feral and Golliath come from. There were lots of exotic armors in there if I recall, most were of the heavy variety. Some shields too.

It also said something about it adding the bonus to touch AC, which I didn't quite understand, I will need to scrutinize the text later when I get home.

You may be interested in "thistledown" from Races of the Wild. It has a max dex of +10 but requires no feat.


----------



## Shayuri (May 22, 2008)

My dex bonus is +19.


----------



## Albedo (May 22, 2008)

Alrighty, since alot of people asked what it is I'll bring it up again in case anybody hasn't had it picked yet. The specials came up with the conversation about the Half Oger issue, and works as follows. Essentially I can mod a single rule or aspect of your character to make it fit more of what you wanted it to be. So far I have been doing mostly work with adding favored classes, but a few of you have gone with something a little different.

In game you guys can use Jemal as a base reference, but honestly even if you don't understand it quite yet give posting a go so I can give you pointers on what needs work. You won't learn if you won't try right? Just try to think of yourselves as another character watching and see if that helps.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 23, 2008)

Having us come up with the choices for the world name, and then having us vote on them doesn't make sense. You choose from our sugestions. If you had presented us with a list of possibles then we could choose. Otherwise we'll have a "brethren court" moment where everyone just votes for themselves.  Getting into the pirate theme are we? Yay!


----------



## Albedo (May 23, 2008)

Vertexx69 said:
			
		

> Having us come up with the choices for the world name, and then having us vote on them doesn't make sense. You choose from our sugestions. If you had presented us with a list of possibles then we could choose. Otherwise we'll have a "brethren court" moment where everyone just votes for themselves.  Getting into the pirate theme are we? Yay!




You'd think so, but you are forgetting one thing. I didn't submit the name and I have the swing vote. Honestly, I'm trying to see if any name just grabs people and see whats more popular rather than just choosing one myself. And if we end up with a tie, then I'll decide.


----------



## Shayuri (May 23, 2008)

I didn't see one that jumped out at me...

They're all fine, but I like mine best.


----------



## Jemal (May 23, 2008)

aye, the point is if one DOES jump out at ANY of us, that'l probly be the one that wins with 2 votes.   which reminds me, i forgot to vote.. wops.


----------



## Walking Dad (May 23, 2008)

Sorry, Albedo, but I have to bow out of this. Reading the IC post I recognized two things:

1 you already got very good players
2 this kind of posting style isn't for me.

Sorry I took so much of your time. Perhaps we will play together in another game


----------



## Albedo (May 23, 2008)

Walking Dad said:
			
		

> Sorry, Albedo, but I have to bow out of this. Reading the IC post I recognized two things:
> 
> 1 you already got very good players
> 2 this kind of posting style isn't for me.
> ...




Sorry to lose you. I had high hopes for your character concept.

Btw, Shayuri, you're the only posted character who still needs to post in game. *prod prod*


----------



## Shayuri (May 23, 2008)

Yah, I know...

I'm struggling a little.

Okay, kind of a lot.

It's a very different way of thinking of a scene, and I'm not sure I'm digging it.

Not throwing in the towel, mind you. Just trying to frame what I'm imagining in a way that conveys what I want it to convey, through the lens of your requested style.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 23, 2008)

Try building on the scene thats already been started Shay?

Can we get a bit more info on the lovely ladies in the corner? (Race, age, drink of preference;p)

I vote for my world name!


----------



## Albedo (May 23, 2008)

Vertexx: I'm actually really glad you asked that question. Heres where I begin to define DM information and NPCs. Simply put, you guys don't know this information. The way to reveal it, or encounter it, would be to start some form of interaction with the NPCs, and I finish it. 

Ex:
PC: Bob walks up to the strange man and says hi.

DM: Drogen, the strange man, gives bob an acknowledgement.

After information becomes known you can feel free to use it, though you guys don't hold any sway over the actions of "DM" NPCs, characters which I introduce. As stated above, you write the seen just up to the point where a reaction is expected and I finish it.


----------



## Shayuri (May 23, 2008)

What's getting to me is the constant shifts in perspective. It's like trying to listen to five people telling different stories about different things at the same time.

Figuratively speaking.

It also means that not only do I have to think about my character and the surroundings, but I also have to think about the nameless, faceless narrator's character; who they are, how they know my character, what do they know, how do they feel...all of that tinges their statements.

So far at least, it seems like a lot of extra work that leads to nothing except a lot of "static" that only detracts from the narrative and adds nothing.

I will try to post tonight though, complaints aside, and give it a try before I make a final decision. It may also be tomorrow, if tonight winds up being movie night after all.

I do apologize for the delay.


----------



## Albedo (May 26, 2008)

Shayuri, you seem to be having some contiuned difficulty with the writing syle, since you have yet to post. If you want an easy to do example, one thing you can do is create essentially a statless cohort who follows your character around and write from his perspective.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 28, 2008)

Ok this experimental format is going to take some getting used to. So whats the next step in the little drama unfolding in front of the entire tavern? Does Prontius think that a grapple would do any good? I figured it for useless at epic lvls with all of the FoM and swordsage multiclassing around. I think a shadow blink (sw) and a bit of a chat are in order now? Or do I need to roll initiative first?

You can't justify the ring of sequestering's 300k pricetag if it only provides the same function as invisibility (20k) plus non detection (35k). It has to function at least as Improved Invisibility with Nondetection. In one of Jemal's epic games we priced a ring of improved invis around 215k. If you won't relent to this interpretation then I'll need to find something else to do with that 300k, as the ring of sequestering will be rendered a completely useless item.


----------



## Shayuri (May 28, 2008)

lol

Completely useless item...

Well, to each their own. 

I think I'm gonna hafta bow out after all. Before I actually do something that changes the game and thus requires some form of acknowledgement.

As it is, I can still just pretend I was never there...which I find preferable.

I hope y'all have fun, and good luck!


----------



## Deuce Traveler (May 28, 2008)

I just wanted to say that I'm looking forward to see this in play.  I can't imagine the work that you are going to be putting yourself through Albedo.  It seems like an intense undertaking.


----------



## Albedo (May 28, 2008)

Vertexx: The pricing on the Ring of Sequestering is less about being able to have greater invisibility, and more to have a form of invisibility that cannot be detected by see invis or true seeing, a magical feature that can only be duplicated by mindblank, a 9th level spell. Considering that true seeing and see invis are extremely common at this level, this feature of the ring of sequestering is what justifies the cost.

You don't need to roll initiative, since technically the series of readied actions that take place sets the initiative order. If someone else joins in then initiative will be rolled.

Prontius doesn't really know how practical a grapple will be, though he does know there are alot of defenses against such tactics.

Shayuri: Hate to lose you. Sorry it didn't work out.


----------



## Shayuri (May 28, 2008)

No worries, and no hard feelings, I hope.

Not every experiment works for everyone.

Best of luck!


----------



## Arabesu (May 28, 2008)

Albedo said:
			
		

> Prontius doesn't really know how practical a grapple will be, though he does know there are alot of defenses against such tactics.




Yes, but having that little whelp grappled, even for merely one round, would really help Yens out. I think its probably the only way he could possibly get sneak attacks against that rogue. hint. hint.


----------



## Albedo (May 28, 2008)

Arabesu... how would having the halfling grappled help you get sneak attack?


----------



## Shayuri (May 28, 2008)

Creatures in a grapple lose their dex bonus to AC, except against one another.


----------



## Arabesu (May 29, 2008)

And improved uncanny dodge ain't no help!


----------



## Jemal (May 29, 2008)

"except against each other".. so if YOU grapple him, YOU can't sneak attack him, but others could... 
Am I missing something?  Are there multiple people fighting the halfling, b/c otherwise it doesn't work.


----------



## Arabesu (May 29, 2008)

Large creatures with multiple arms tend to win grapples against small creatures with just two. If Capn' P were to grapple him then Yen could sneak attack the now dex-free halfling with his chain...

I see over in the IC thread, that Vertexx69 is setting up Yens nicely.

When do I go? I'm still confused on how we are doing initiative in this game.

Is there a rule that these need to be one-on-one fights? If so, who is Yens expected to go against?


----------



## Jemal (May 29, 2008)

Ah, so I guess Yens and the captain are friends then? 

Personally, If I saw a big guy start attacking a halfling for no apparent reason, I'd try to stop the fight, and attack anybody who insisted on continuing it.  Unfortunately, I'm kinda busy defending the bar from a rampaging bear 10 feet to your left.


----------



## Arabesu (May 30, 2008)

The bear is only 10 feat away? I missed that. I had mentally built up the bar as:


```
Tatterdemillion                                      samurai



      --                  CP:H Capn'Ps table
      --
      --
  Bar --              
 keep -- 
      --    Yens                             bear:Bodin
      --                     
      --                     
      --
      --
--------            Patrons fleeing out the door
                          \/ \/
                          \/ \/
                          Door
```

[sblock=Jemal]
Was this intended as friendly sarcasm or as a barbed jab? If the latter, then this saddens me, because it means that no matter how I play this game you will always be against me. And that’s a bummer. I guess I will just have to give it more time.

If I missed a smiley somewhere and this was meant as a joke rather than an attack, they I do apologize for wasting your time. 

Perhaps I am just being overly sensitive.
[/sblock]


----------



## Jemal (May 30, 2008)

Actually, I have no idea how far apart we were, I think that much was left to us, the 'ten feet to your left' was more meant to mean "Nearby", but I suppose with the kinda freeform system we're using, he might as well be. 

[sblock=Arabesu]
I'm afraid I don't understand what you're taking as a jab, none were intended.  My last post was merely commenting on the fact that, from appearances, it seems like the captain (A large man) is picking on the halfling, and I personally would either side with the halfling or (more likely) attempt to stop the fight if I didn't know them.  I was just wondering if you had some sort of backstory between Yens and Prontius, or if you were just helping him out b/c he's a PC.[/sblock]


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 30, 2008)

Prontius has uncanny dodge so he can't be caught flat-footed (even with a feint) and therefore not be sneak attacked as he isn't flanked.

The rogue is falling toward the ground, as Prontius did vanish out from under her. Sure it's less than ten feet, but might be slightly disconcerting.

The glove of storing shrinks the item into the palm of the hand so it is still considered wielded no matter it's size (a tactic that I've used and seen used in many games). The item description specifically states that spell durations continue, i.e. continuous spell effects would stay active as well. If you won't allow that then I'll need to change the storing glove to a caster's glove (DMGII p.266) that specifically states this tactic can be done with a rod.


----------



## Jemal (May 30, 2008)

I'd think the fact that the casters glove costs more and specifically states it can do that should tip you off that the regular glove of storing Doesn't. 
I'd also point out that while it does say that it's shrunk down, it ALSO states that it's 'held in stasis', not something that lends itself well to considering yourself still wielding the item.

As to the feinting vs uncanny dodge.. they're seperate things.

Uncanny dodge lets you retain your dex bonus to ac while flat footed.  Feinting doesn't make you flat footed, it 'denies the target it's dex modifier vs the next attack.'  While they are similar, they are not the same, and Feinting is a standard Rogue's response to someone with uncanny dodge. (or for some, their primary method of achieving sneak attack in any scenario)


----------



## Albedo (May 30, 2008)

Vertexx: You've got the usage on the casting glove wrong. Once per round, while an itme is in your casting glove, you can call upon 1 feature of the item as if you were holding it. Since this isn't an immediate action, you can't call upon the usage of the rod of invulnerability. More importantly, the description indicates that this can only be done with usable powers, not innate ones, since it doesn't say the effect has a duration, it merely calls on the duration of the effect involved. Either way, I'll let you have the rod give you immunity to crits, but this function works like dodge, you need to declare it. And you need to pay the extra gold to update your glove. And if you do use it as such, you won't be getting the other features of the rod.


----------



## Vertexx69 (May 30, 2008)

Uncanny Dodge states that you retain your dex mod to AC EVEN IF you are caught flat footed or hit by an invisible attacker, not ONLY IF. Therefore feint would be useless against someone with uncanny dodge, as it couldn't immobilize them (the ONLY way to deny a character with UD its dex bonus to AC).

This is pissing me off more than any game should, these endless "house rule" interpretations are ALL things that should have been brought up during the character creations phase. As I obviously have zero understanding of the rules (as all I can do is read them and try to come to some kind of LOGICAL decision about how they come together) I'm outa here...PEACE!!!!


----------



## Jemal (May 30, 2008)

Um, Vertexx, I just want to say that you're the first person I've encountered who tried to convince the DM of EITHER of these things(Uncanny dodge beating Feint or the Storing Glove thing).. I sincerely hope you don't try that in any of my games, b/c I wouldn't allow such a thing either.

I fail to see what 'house rules' Albedo's using on either of these, EVERYBODY I've ever gamed with (And a dozen or so people who I've asked specifically about this since you posted it) agrees that the rules are rather obvious unless you're reading them sideways.

As far as Uncanny Dodge vs Feint goes, I can even offer OFFICIAL proof: I know that wizards has posted a response on this EXACT question in reference to Star Wars D20.. Granted it's a different genre, but it's STILL d20, and its STILL wizards, and the ability's both work the same as they do in D&D.
http://www.wizards.com/default.asp?x=starwars/article/sw20060323jc85

As to the glove, I notice you haven't attempted to dispute what I said in my last post.  
All you've done is get pissed off that people aren't interpreting the rules in the same way as you.  If DM's had to specify EVERY single rules interpretation (Especially for stuff like this that seems rather straightforward), creation posts would be longer than the freakin phb.


----------



## Albedo (May 31, 2008)

Vertexx: If you don't want to play anymore, thats fine, I can't make you. But I do need to point out some flaws in your logic. 


Step one, None of my house rules have been the cause of any of our rule problems. your problem is my interpretation of normal rules in the book, and I'm not house ruling any of it. Its all perfectly valid.

Step two, how am I supposed to pick out these problems by looking at your character sheet? I can't tell that you are going to try and cheat with a glove of storing even though you KNOW that an item exist that does similar to what you wanted it to do. 

How should I have come to the conclusion you think activation time on magic items is a free action, even though the DMG specifically states its a standard action. 

I didn't know that because you BELIEVE a ring of sequestering isn't worth its gp value, you automatically assume it does what you want it to do with no actual rules basis or DM permission. 

I can definatly see how these come up by looking at your character sheet. This is completely my fault. I'm sorry.

Step three, check out this link from  ask wizards. I'm not the only person who believes feint works this way. 

Step four, honestly, how come every time somebody disagrees with what you post, you respond with "you're wrong because I read the rules differently"?


I think I've given you alot of patience based off of the fact that we don't see eye to eye on alot of this stuff. and its not like your character creation went smoothly either. In your attempt to make the most broken and ridiculous character you could, you messed up or ignored like a dozen rules. And I didn't even really care, cause you could play the character you wanted. Without you playing, at least I can save myself from that headache. Good Luck in your travels Vertexx.


----------



## Jemal (Jun 3, 2008)

So... *cricket chirp*


----------

