# I miss Melkor (3rd Gnome IR) :)



## Zelda Themelin (Jun 9, 2004)

I met the dark lord Melkor during 3rd gnome IR and he seemingly dissappered
from face of earth (or en-world at least) since then.

I wondered today if he is still around, and what has this ex Dark Lord been up to since then.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 9, 2004)

Yeah, where did this Evil-sweating guy go to?

You still around here Melkor? Hello? Anybody home? Helllooooooooo....


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## Knight Otu (Jun 9, 2004)

I recently re-read part of the Rokugan IR, and checked profiles of some of the posters there. According to that, he's still around (last activity yesterday). Not that I've seen many posts by him recently, but he still seems to lurk, at least.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 9, 2004)

I was one who imprisoned you with my most weak neutral force, and gave you away as wedding gift.

You escaped though.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 9, 2004)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> I recently re-read part of the Rokugan IR, and checked profiles of some of the posters there. According to that, he's still around (last activity yesterday). Not that I've seen many posts by him recently, but he still seems to lurk, at least.





In that case I'm expecting a comment pretty soon ;]

And where are all the other IR players? Any other lurkers from 'back then' here?


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## Knight Otu (Jun 9, 2004)

I think a number of them is still fairly active. CS, Festy_Dog, Forsaken One... (it was really funny to see a few of those early 800th or 500th post boasting posts who now have 2500++ posts )


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## 'o Skoteinos (Jun 10, 2004)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> I think a number of them is still fairly active. CS, Festy_Dog, Forsaken One... (it was really funny to see a few of those early 800th or 500th post boasting posts who now have 2500++ posts )




Me, Kalanyr, Sollir not as much, Edena (posts more on Nutkinland though)...


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## Kalanyr (Jun 10, 2004)

I do not have a large post count , and Melkor is still around I'm sure I saw him posting in the Vin Diesel Thread.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 10, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> I do not have a large post count , and Melkor is still around I'm sure I saw him posting in the Vin Diesel Thread.




Oh, Kal, my old friend (like to think so at least), how are you doing.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 10, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> I do not have a large post count ,



 Nope, It's Medium, waiting to grow to Large. 
 Crothian doesn't have a Large post count, either. It is Colossal+. 



			
				Kalanyr said:
			
		

> and Melkor is still around I'm sure I saw him posting in the Vin Diesel Thread.



 Not in the two currently on page 1...


 Oh, and anyone here who'd like another IR? 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 (No, I'm not starting it...)


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## Kalanyr (Jun 10, 2004)

Hey Zelda, old friend, good to hear from you too.


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## William Ronald (Jun 10, 2004)

I have not seen much of Melkor, although I will check out the Vin Deisel thread.  I sent him an e-mail some time back when he said things were a little rough. Hopefully, he is doing well.

Good to see everyone here!!!  It's been a while, Kalanyr, Venus, Zelda, o'Skoteinos, and Knight Otu!!!

(Hmm, maybe I can direct a few people to this thread)


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 10, 2004)

Oh please do. I lost all contact information of you long a after one hard-drive crash. Nice to see you all.

So, what about zouron.

I know, I know, I like do dissappearing acts all the time what comes to forums.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey William, good to hear from you again. It'd be good to hear from the other IR players as well, so if you could direct them here, yes please.



> Oh, and anyone here who'd like another IR?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




Dangerous question =p


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## dagger (Jun 11, 2004)

Im still around as well


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## Creamsteak (Jun 11, 2004)

Everpresent.


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## William Ronald (Jun 11, 2004)

Dagger, venus, creamsteak:  It is good, as always, to see you on the boards!!!    I hope that you are both doing well.

I will try to do an IR Mass mail tonight.


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## zouron (Jun 11, 2004)

I'm still around the net Zelda, just not really around ENWorld. you are way more likely to find me on psionics.net (IRC).


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## BigFreekinGoblinoid (Jun 11, 2004)

Melkor hasn't posted here since 3/31/04.

I quoted him from an OLD thread in the new Vin Diesel thread.

sorry for the confusion


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## Kalanyr (Jun 11, 2004)

I just checked View Profile: Melkor, Lord Of ALL!'s profile. He was active as recently as 15 hours ago.  His last post is longer ago than that and can be found here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1500945#post1500945


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## Creamsteak (Jun 11, 2004)

Hey, look, I have teh most posts. I never would have expected that given my low-light entrance into the 3rd IR. I was pretty much up and done with EN world before the game started, and I would have ignored it if not for the persistence of WR.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 11, 2004)

zouron said:
			
		

> I'm still around the net Zelda, just not really around ENWorld. you are way more likely to find me on psionics.net (IRC).




I came back there recently. So, nice to know you still around.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 11, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> I just checked View Profile: Melkor, Lord Of ALL!'s profile. He was active as recently as 15 hours ago.  His last post is longer ago than that and can be found here: http://www.enworld.org/forums/showthread.php?p=1500945#post1500945




Ah, Jordan book fan, scary. I am reading those books too, in high hopes author actually gets change of heart and kills most of his main characters.
And that story pace actually picks up. Not that I have high hope for either. 

I read a lot of fantasy and scifi. And lot of books in general. I have soft 
spot for rpg fantasy stories. I liked Gord the rogue books for example.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 11, 2004)

Well, if I'm to bump this for Melkor (should he be around), I might as well add a bit more IR things. If anyone is interested to see the Epic spells I created for the Rokugan IR back then, here's a link.


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## William Ronald (Jun 11, 2004)

I e-mailed a bunch of people from the 3rd IR, but I could not find Melkor's e-mail address.  Hopefully, a  few of them will show up here.


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## William Ronald (Jun 11, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> Hey, look, I have teh most posts. I never would have expected that given my low-light entrance into the 3rd IR. I was pretty much up and done with EN world before the game started, and I would have ignored it if not for the persistence of WR.





I am known for being persistent, especially by my family and friends.  I think I was a little exhausted by the end of the 3rd IR as I was posting constantly.  (Does anyone remember the server problems we had for a while back then? It took about two hours to post one of Hazen's many speeches.  )


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 11, 2004)

I was never much for speeches, but the IR was one of the most fun things I think I was ever involved in.  It's good to see you all again.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 12, 2004)

Hey Anab! 

Nice to see you too, I always liked your illithid character btw.l

Ah, anyway, wonder what happened to Darkness and those others cool fellews that left IR earlier.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 12, 2004)

Oh, yes, The Dark Lord of The Void still watches! How very nice that people are still remembering! I have been busy, I am studying law, those are the hardest studies in Poland alongside medicine, but I have just finished my first year, with quite good results, so I have more free time now! I have been playing at RPG wotmania board recently. 

Oh, and I have a girlfriend, and she isn`t very keen on world domination!


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## Knight Otu (Jun 12, 2004)

And here he is! Hi, Melkor! 

 Good luck with your further studies!


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 12, 2004)

Hey Melkor, good to read everything is going fine for you =]

On a side note, only a few remaining from a total IR Reunion ;p


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## Festy_Dog (Jun 12, 2004)

Ah, nostalgia.

I remember the 3rd IR was the reason I started using the EN World boards. One day at high school Kal described this interesting concept for a game and said it was happening online. I said, 'How do I get in on this?' and he steered me to Enworld. Thus I was involved in the 3rd IR.

Good to see you Melkor. Law, eh? Have fun with that, one of those very prestigious degrees.  (I'm currently doing Psych)

Aside from all that though, I think this is my first post outside of the gaming section of the forums! Shock and horror!


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## Serpenteye (Jun 12, 2004)

Melkor said:
			
		

> Oh, yes, The Dark Lord of The Void still watches! How very nice that people are still remembering! I have been busy, I am studying law, those are the hardest studies in Poland alongside medicine, but I have just finished my first year, with quite good results, so I have more free time now! I have been playing at RPG wotmania board recently.




Hi Melkor, and all my other IR-ites, nice to see you again my old friend. It's an interesting coincidence that you are also a law-student, like myself. Maybe people in our line of work are more in touch with our dark sides than the average person.  (or not)



			
				Melkor said:
			
		

> Oh, and I have a girlfriend, and she isn`t very keen on world domination!




They never are...   




			
				Knight Otu said:
			
		

> Oh, and anyone here who'd like another IR?
> 
> 
> 
> ...




I would, but I don't have the time and I don't know any setting we haven't already done. Except perhaps WoT (and yes Zelda I agree that he should kill a few of the main characters off, starting with Perrin, Faile and Cadsuane), but the setting is hardly balanced.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 12, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I would, but I don't have the time and I don't know any setting we haven't already done.



 It wouldn't have to be linked to the previous ones... ok, ok, I'm silent already.


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## Serpenteye (Jun 12, 2004)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> It wouldn't have to be linked to the previous ones... ok, ok, I'm silent already.




It could be fun if we redid the 3rd IR, with some modifications to the rules, but with a role reversal of the players. Melkor could play Hazen, the Forsaken One could play the northern barbarians, Creamsteak could be Vecna and I... could play The United Commonwealth of Toril.  
It would be an interesting excerzise in empathy, tolerance and eh, pointlesness.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 12, 2004)

*Next IR?*

We could do something like this again, what about Magical Revolution on Earth, or Eberron IR? We could have more than 1 Dm`s,  I could be one but someone would have to do the math.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 12, 2004)

Guess that leaves me with the Orcs of the Pomarj for the reversal or maybe the League of Warlords or Janos come to think of it we had a lot of turncoats from both sides. Though I think I was the only one that switched and intended to stay that way. @_@. 

Oh and William sorry for not getting back to you in the email you sent me weeks ago, I've been doing lots of assignments and exam revision I'll get back to you as soon as exams are over.


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 12, 2004)

An Eberron IR would be interesting, but Eberron has largely already achieved something close to an industrial revolution.

We'd really have to find some way to lower the book-keeping...  Maybe we could steal the rules from some other game and use them as a base line.

And I suppose if we switched roles, I'd have to be...

Hmm.

I don't know, some sort of Githyanki?


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 12, 2004)

Melkor said:
			
		

> Oh, yes, The Dark Lord of The Void still watches! How very nice that people are still remembering! I have been busy, I am studying law...




I'm not even slightly surprised.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 12, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Hi Melkor, and all my other IR-ites, nice to see you again my old friend. It's an interesting coincidence that you are also a law-student, like myself. Maybe people in our line of work are more in touch with our dark sides than the average person.  (or not)




It might not surprise you then that The Forsaken One is also a law-student? =p



> I would, but I don't have the time and I don't know any setting we haven't already done. Except perhaps WoT (and yes Zelda I agree that he should kill a few of the main characters off, starting with Perrin, Faile and Cadsuane), but the setting is hardly balanced.




Hmm, new IR, sounds good, very good. I believe Edena once pointed out (in one of the last 3rd IR threads) that the portal to other dimensions on Island of the Phoenix (iirc) still existed. Just a thought ;]
And of course it wouldn't have to be a 4th IR, it could be anything (like the Rokugan IR, a total different setting).


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 12, 2004)

Anabstercorian said:
			
		

> An Eberron IR would be interesting, but Eberron has largely already achieved something close to an industrial revolution.
> 
> We'd really have to find some way to lower the book-keeping...  Maybe we could steal the rules from some other game and use them as a base line.
> 
> ...




You and Iuz were big friends, weren't you? =P


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 13, 2004)

Actually, I think my final arch-nemesis was the God Emperor.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 13, 2004)

'Ello, poking my head in, just got wind of this as I was scrolling through GD today.  So...ummm...hey, how's it going?  I still have a quote from Darkness in my sig from the 3rd IR 

I highly regret not being that much into roleplaying when the 3rd IR started-I really regretted a loss of some story that I would have like to convey with my alltogether too much munchkiny character/forces.  It was still a blast, though.

Hrm, I'd also have to say Creamsteak was my biggest ally and/or enemy, depending on the round of the game.  Reading his original posts on the IR Alliance boards afterwards was just hilarious 

Er, law students, eh?  I'm still in highschool (senior next year...) but that was one of my more seriously considered career path options *shudders*

(Edit-I was saddened when the Rokugan IR died, I had everything planned, a flying artifact-fortress, a way to boost up my forces to +5/+5ish and a way to get my PC to PL 20ish or so level of power-or at least I thought I had a good chance of doing so...yeah, I'm still a munchkin.)


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 13, 2004)

Rokugan IR died because there was too much math involved. So, shall I make a poll where to place next IR?


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 13, 2004)

Hi Melkor. Really nice to hear from you.

So, law student, eh. There must be some connection between evil and law here. 


So another gnome IR, eh. Eberron does sound interesting, though it's not yet familiar to me. I've already ordered the campaing book.
Personally I think Eberron + Gnome IR would make it Final Fantasy, one of them anyhow. 

And there is always Wheel of Time world (don't forget people, sourcebooks by WotC itself too). 

Hey, but now than the Evil One himself has answered the summons too, I am kind of curious whatever happened to Edena?


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 13, 2004)

Melkor said:
			
		

> Rokugan IR died because there was too much math involved. So, shall I make a poll where to place next IR?




I agree about too much math. I was reading it.
Please do the poll, maybe we get other en-world opinions too.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 13, 2004)

Zelda Themelin said:
			
		

> Hi Melkor. Really nice to hear from you.
> 
> So, law student, eh. There must be some connection between evil and law here.
> 
> ...


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 13, 2004)

Melkor said:
			
		

> QUOTE]
> 
> Oh, I love WOT. But what about magic coming to earth? In open, not like Urbam Arcana.




Earth might be a bit too diffucult, at least for me. I did play all those play-yourself as a rpg-character in "what if" games. It gets really complex when bigger factions get involted, when on tries to play them "right". How stupid or not real people who don't initially believe into supernatural can get when faced with it, is something that's always escaped me.

And game would become way too RL political easily.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 13, 2004)

Zelda Themelin said:
			
		

> Earth might be a bit too diffucult, at least for me. I did play all those play-yourself as a rpg-character in "what if" games. It gets really complex when bigger factions get involted, when on tries to play them "right". How stupid or not real people who don't initially believe into supernatural can get when faced with it, is something that's always escaped me.
> 
> And game would become way too RL political easily.




Well, I am playing the game like this on Wotmania, and it is great fun! I am waiting for other people`s ideas and opinions.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 13, 2004)

Melkor said:
			
		

> Well, I am playing the game like this on Wotmania, and it is great fun! I am waiting for other people`s ideas and opinions.




Ah, do you have link to that game, we could have change to check it out,


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 13, 2004)

Zelda Themelin said:
			
		

> Ah, do you have link to that game, we could have change to check it out,




Check: 


http://www.wotmania.com/rpgmessageboardshowmessage.asp?MessageID=2010


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## Serpenteye (Jun 13, 2004)

Anabstercorian said:
			
		

> Actually, I think my final arch-nemesis was the God Emperor.




Nemesis? We were allies, remember? It's not my fault you volunteered to become my slave.   



			
				Melkor said:
			
		

> Rokugan IR died because there was too much math involved. So, shall I make a poll where to place next IR?




The math wasn't really much more complicated than the math used in the 3rd IR. The reason it died was probably because the DM (for unknowl reasons) lost his interest in the game.   I was only one round away from completing an artifact that would have made my armies invulnerable, after that I would have pretty good chances to wipe the rest of the faction off the face of the earth.



			
				Melkor said:
			
		

> Oh, I love WOT. But what about magic coming to earth? In open, not like Urban Arcana.




If it wasn't for the danger of people reacting ooc and nationalistically if bad things happened to their real world home-land that would be a great idea. Perhaps it would lessen the risk if we placed the game in the past, rather than the modern era.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 13, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> The math wasn't really much more complicated than the math used in the 3rd IR. The reason it died was probably because the DM (for unknowl reasons) lost his interest in the game.



 I think the math was part of it. I can imagine that it was a damn lot of work for CS. Add to that that a number of players lost interest in the game...


			
				Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I was only one round away from completing an artifact that would have made my armies invulnerable, after that I would have pretty good chances to wipe the rest of the faction off the face of the earth.



 I wanted to direct all the clans into action against the Shadowlands, so my shugenjas get a good chance at cleansing it, maybe get rid of a few candidates for the place of emperor and place Isawa Akahita as near to the throne as possible. Of course, I failed miserably to keep the clans from infighting in the first place, or to travel to distant lands for fighting their own fights...
 Oh, and I might have gotten away with elevating one of my NPCs to godhood, or nearly so. 

As for a new IR, I'd be for Eberron, or at least, I'd be if I had the book yet.  A near future IR could also work, and dispel a few concerns (and most likely create a bunch of new ones).


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## Kalanyr (Jun 14, 2004)

I think the difference is that the Maths in the 3rd IR to be frank mattered a hell of a lot less, Edena improvised a heck of a lot with a passing nod to maths,Creamsteak crunched the numbers and lived by them, that put a lot more strain on CS for much the same results. The maths should either be simpler than the IRs or we should just admit its a game of DM whim and let the DM arbitrate as desired.


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## Creamsteak (Jun 14, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> The math wasn't really much more complicated than the math used in the 3rd IR. The reason it died was probably because the DM (for unknowl reasons) lost his interest in the game.   I was only one round away from completing an artifact that would have made my armies invulnerable, after that I would have pretty good chances to wipe the rest of the faction off the face of the earth.




The very second I finished reading your spreadsheet with all your PL working towards an artifact, I think I said something out loud along the lines of, "Damn... it's over already."

That was part of my frustration. PL calculating wasn't bothering me so much... but I just don't think I could handle it at the time. A lot of proposed epic spells weren't working for me either...

That said, I would enjoy running/participating in a different kind of IR. I'm not really sure on setting (I wouldn't like real world stuff because I would feel horribly ill-knowledgeable), but I could see possibly trying out Eberron. Would be nice if we could get an all consuming game master like Edena though, even though it frustrated me to no end that he basically ad-hocked every decision, I still couldn't wait for more and more and more.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 14, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> I'm not really sure on setting (I wouldn't like real world stuff because I would feel horribly ill-knowledgeable), but I could see possibly trying out Eberron. Would be nice if we could get an all consuming game master like Edena though, even though it frustrated me to no end that he basically ad-hocked every decision, I still couldn't wait for more and more and more.




Yep, real world world is too challenging to me, and to be honest I don't enjoy modern world games so much. It woudn't be Industreal Revolution anymore but Magical Revolution and that's IMO horse of different color.

So any idea where Edena is nowadays? Anyone want to point him this thread. 

Not to push him to moderate another game of insane amount of work, but just for old time's sake.


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## Mr. Draco (Jun 14, 2004)

Hey everyone!

A friend of mine saw this thread and let me know about it.  Sadly these days I'm to busy with everything to do much enworld surfing, or even RPGs in general these days :-(

In any case, I'm off to college next year for Physics, so I suppose I'll see how things go then.

But it's good seeing you all again!


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 14, 2004)

Mr. Draco said:
			
		

> Hey everyone!
> 
> A friend of mine saw this thread and let me know about it.  Sadly these days I'm to busy with everything to do much enworld surfing, or even RPGs in general these days :-(
> 
> ...




Really nice to hear from you too.


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 14, 2004)

Been seeing this thread around just not motivated to post in it  Still lame as usual. But for the rest, still rpgin with Janos/ HOSkoteinos  and Venus and currently studying law. 

And as for the girlfriend thing, I got one aspiring for Queen bitch of the Universe 

Now we're just missing gnomeworks and Unvenelie or something. Maudlin has gone missing several years ago. Darkness however is still supposed to be a moderator around here.

I am seriously considering if there is the animo for it to start an IR up, not with all the math involved, just a bit. And with handling stuff through email that is secret (works better is my own experience). Is a bit of work but... Anf if possible co-host it with someone like Janos or something. (I'll let him handle the math and rulestuff Each to his own aye?). I'd like that in any case but it would be earliest in september or something and would need the neccesary preparations. 

Offcourse we could have a map created, some nations appointed on it and everyone to create their own people and nation from a wholly personal point of view and do away with the whole human dwarf elf thing. This is one of the ideas most appealing to me to do away with the whole basic D&D principle to begin with for such a game. Or start on a existing campaign world like Erberron allthough I know #%@ about it as of the moment but might be compelled to look into it.

I'll check in here a bit later again.

Live for the Swarm!!!

(And btw yeah Serp and anab we played the field kinda a bit too well in the end  Sucker all do-gooders )


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 14, 2004)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> Been seeing this thread around just not motivated to post in it  Still lame as usual. But for the rest, still rpgin with Janos/ HOSkoteinos  and Venus and currently studying law.




Cool you bothered this time around, however. 

So we are missing if those that were active in the endgame:

Our Moderator Edena_of_Neith
Tokiwong (Iuz)
GnomeWorks (Kessel)
Black Omega (Siobhan)

Everybody would include, of course these people. Salute to long history of the games. 

As a history flash, this is half-complite list of those who attended

 THE 1ST IR

Lord Balor
Bran
Edena_of_Neith
Forrester
Lannon
Phasmus
Reprisal
Zouron

THE 2ND IR

Doc Moriarty
Lord Balor
Edena_of_Neith
Forrester
Phasmus
Reprisal
Lord Talos (Lord Melkor in the 3rd IR)
Zelda (OOG-comments only)
Zouron

There were others but I don't recall them. They joined the game from sama (unsaved)
side-thread where I did most of my commenting.

THE 3RD IR

Alyx
Anabstercorian
Black Omega
Bonedagger
Creamsteak
Mr. Draco
Edena_of_Neith
Festy Dog
Forrester
Frigid Spleen
The Forsaken One
Gnomeworks
John Brown
Kaboom
Kalanyr
Lynux
Maudlin
Lord Melkor
'o Skoteinos
Reprisal
Serpenteye
Sollir Furryfoot
Spoof (also known as Alzem)
Tokiwong
Turrosh Mak
Valkys
Venus
William Ronald
Zelda
Zouron


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 14, 2004)

If the trent continues for a 4th IR please hold my hand.


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 14, 2004)

Errr... ok I haven't got the invite to the party, as I was only a fanboy at the times of 3rd IR, but I participated in the Rokugan IR and in the Red Death one, so I thought I could sneak in, because it's very nice to hear from you all again. 

My 2 cp about a new IR would be to set it on Earth, only not 21th century earth but rather another time of our liking.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 14, 2004)

Lichtenhart said:
			
		

> Errr... ok I haven't got the invite to the party, as I was only a fanboy at the times of 3rd IR, but I participated in the Rokugan IR and in the Red Death one, so I thought I could sneak in, because it's very nice to hear from you all again.
> 
> My 2 cp about a new IR would be to set it on Earth, only not 21th century earth but rather another time of our liking.




Ah Lichtenhart, no this is no private party. You're very welcome.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 14, 2004)

Help Help! Our thread is being invaded ! Kill out the hostile!


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 14, 2004)

I've emailed Edena yesterday, so I hope he'll reply here soon. 

If we're playing on Earth, I guess best timeperiod would be the IR of Western World?


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## Mr. Draco (Jun 14, 2004)

It seems to me that if an IR was to be done on Earth, we might want to pick a much more innocuous time period, one that wouldn't be expected, but still late enough for different regions to have developed their own cultures et all...

Perhaps the Midieval ages but with a catch?  Each country/region would have bonuses based on its mythology (which would actually be real for the IR).  So Britanny would have a Camelot complete with Merlin and King Arthur.  Scandinavia would, on the other hand, have Norse heroes/gods/monsters.  The North Americans would likewise have things from their legends/mythologies, and so would the incans, mayans, mongols, egyptians, etc...   (Maybe even include Atlantis and/or other legendary locales, anyone up for sacking El Dorado?)

With school almost over this year, I'd be willing to help flesh out the rules from a mathematical standpoint  Though I really doubt I'd be able to play :-(

Oh, and Zelda, it's awesome hearing from you.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 14, 2004)

Mr. Draco said:
			
		

> It seems to me that if an IR was to be done on Earth, we might want to pick a much more innocuous time period, one that wouldn't be expected, but still late enough for different regions to have developed their own cultures et all...
> 
> Perhaps the Midieval ages but with a catch?  Each country/region would have bonuses based on its mythology (which would actually be real for the IR).  So Britanny would have a Camelot complete with Merlin and King Arthur.  Scandinavia would, on the other hand, have Norse heroes/gods/monsters.  The North Americans would likewise have things from their legends/mythologies, and so would the incans, mayans, mongols, egyptians, etc...   (Maybe even include Atlantis and/or other legendary locales, anyone up for sacking El Dorado?)




That would be a great idea Mr.Draco. It sounds much better than Modern era (political issues and such), it has room for Magic to be added (more than Modern era anyway), and mythology is always a cool aspect. Very good points. I think if Earth becomes the setting, this would be the way to go.


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## William Ronald (Jun 14, 2004)

I will try to get in touch with Edena as well, and see if he is interested.  I have been  busy working on a homebrew campaign, a short story, preparing for grad school, and working hard.

It is good to hear that everyone is doing well.  Melkor, I am ESPECIALLY glad to hear that you are doing well as I know things were a little rough for a while.  

As for settings, Earth is one possibility but perhaps a mythic earth.  Or we could do what was attempted by Edena in doing a 4th IR in the Forgotten Realms with new rules.

Zelda:  Good to see you!!  In addition to the active participants in the 3rd IR that you have listed we are still missing kaboom  and Alzem (spoof).


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## Festy_Dog (Jun 14, 2004)

An alternate medieval fantasy-esque time period for a real-world 'MR' seems fair, but I think the lack of a counterbalance like technology would prove to be a stumbling block. If we are wanting a magic revolution in a partially fictional earth-like setting I'd also suggest keeping magic to a minimum, so its sudden and relatively all-pervasive appearance creates more of a shock to the system.

The way I see it, the IRs all had well established magic as a counterbalance to the rise of technology, I think that moving parallel but in the opposite direction to that and starting off well into the real-world industrial revolution (or maybe a near-future digital revolution?) would create a good backdrop for the dawning of a magic revolution. That way there's potential for a couple of scenarios that first come to mind: a) both revolutions merge, potential for devastating power is realised and factions race to gain or prevent the gain of potentially world-destroying creations (kinda like the 3rd IR), or b) the revolutions clash, one hinders the other somehow, and factions must decide which is more valuable to them, conflict would erupt between those who think that magic/tech should be eradicated and those who disagree etc. etc. (kinda like Arcanum, but far more political)

In regards to my suggestion for keeping magic to a minimum prior to the revolution, I just feel that it's not much of a revolution if magic already has an influencial place. A small change of historical events (eg. changing names, altering events) and having it set in the near past or near future would probably have the desired effect of distancing it sufficiently from the real world.

Anyway, thats my two cp on the setting for another revolution style game. What's everyone think?


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 14, 2004)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> Zelda:  Good to see you!!  In addition to the active participants in the 3rd IR that you have listed we are still missing kaboom  and Alzem (spoof).




Hello William,

Nice to hear you are doing fine, are busy and still have time for rpg:s.
It would be really nice to hear from Edena, so please contact him if you can. Venus tried it already, but don't know if e-mail worked.

I didn't mean this as IR gathering thread, but it has evolved into one.  I was originally wondering with Venus about our Dark Lord's whereabouts.
Really cool, you showed up Melkor. 

I was never an active particapant at IR, funny though. I could perhaps say, I have always been more a background person. I have pretty chaotic personality too. 


I am with Festy_Dog what comes to idea set IR to Earth.
Eberron might be fun, but it's so new.


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## William Ronald (Jun 14, 2004)

Zelda Themelin said:
			
		

> Hello William,
> 
> Nice to hear you are doing fine, are busy and still have time for rpg:s.
> It would be really nice to hear from Edena, so please contact him if you can. Venus tried it already, but don't know if e-mail worked.
> ...




Ah, but a charming one.  I think what makes a message board game or any other game successful is that everyone gets to shine now and then. You had a few good roleplaying moments and figured in a few decisive events.  Don't sell yourself short.


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## GnomeWorks (Jun 15, 2004)

My, my, now this is a gathering of people... 

Nice to see everyone around again! 

Sorry I didn't see this thread earlier... I don't poke my head out of the PbP forums much anymore, and I don't have nearly as much time online as I did in the good ol' days of the 3rd IR. 

If we're planning on doing a 4th IR, you can definitely count me in... I've been having problems getting online lately, so I don't know how much I can help out in development, but I'll put in what I can.


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## Mr. Draco (Jun 15, 2004)

I think the important thing to decide would be whether a) it should be an established technology with the rise of magic, b) established magic with the rise of technology (again), or c) the rise of both magic and technology simultaneously.  Once that choice has been made, I think the options for time/place will be narrowed down.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 15, 2004)

Has anyone actually volunteered to run this abomination ?


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## Mr. Draco (Jun 15, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> Has anyone actually volunteered to run this abomination ?




I don't think so, but someone brought it up so I figured I might as well toss some ideas around.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 15, 2004)

I am still around... nice to see everyone coming together


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## Uvenelei (Jun 15, 2004)

Wow, disappear of the face of the earth (or even the boards) for a few years and everyone forgets you were ever there in the first place...   

Hi all; I hope all is good. As for a 4th IR, the idea is both intriguing and mind boggling at the same time. Sounds like fun.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 15, 2004)

Uvenelei said:
			
		

> Wow, disappear of the face of the earth (or even the boards) for a few years and everyone forgets you were ever there in the first place...
> 
> Hi all; I hope all is good. As for a 4th IR, the idea is both intriguing and mind boggling at the same time. Sounds like fun.




I still remember you. 
Really nice to hear from you.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 15, 2004)

Uvenelei said:
			
		

> Wow, disappear of the face of the earth (or even the boards) for a few years and everyone forgets you were ever there in the first place...
> 
> Hi all; I hope all is good. As for a 4th IR, the idea is both intriguing and mind boggling at the same time. Sounds like fun.





Groundpounderman! ;p


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 15, 2004)

Grmble everyone seems to skip my post  I believe  volunteered but that would be in september as I believe the post reads somewhere on page 2.

But to get started with I'd first find it interesting to have a round or two without advancing anything just to see how it goes. Just politics and strategy. When we get the feel we can always start advancing instead of everyone starting doing the weird stuff in round one like what happened in rokugan for example.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 15, 2004)

I might be willing to do Moderating it  but my obsession with making sure things are balanced to start with would probably offend some.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 15, 2004)

I dont think balance will be a huge problem for many though ;P
Also the idea of starting sooner than September is a good thing in my book =]


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 15, 2004)

Yeah Kal, in your vocab maintaining balance and overkill are synonymous for eachother. Instead of just dealing with it and balancing it out with ingame stuff or something you just alway say no and shoot it down. And if you don't we get the IR Aftermath scenario which you screwed up with cancelling haste rules in the middle of combat and designing it specifically to screw Janos with no eyes on the rest.

So my vote ain't on that one =[


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## Kalanyr (Jun 15, 2004)

In game balance is impossible in a game where the rules are actually followed it works fine if you ignore the rules and improvise (as Edena did perfectly) or in a game like D&D where the DM makes the world and sets thing as he desires and players play cooperatively. And the scenario planned could have been defeated in 2 rounds by Janos and it was an attempt at in game balance as you claim (the lethality was due to me trying to create an encounter capable of HITTING your AC monster). I didn't change diddly squat haste rules I changed the armour of speed (which after somone pointed out I'd change rules in mid-combat I went back to my original rules and changed it after and reimbursed said characters with appropriate cash too). At least be CORRECT when insulting me.


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 15, 2004)

This isn't even an attempt at insult, just stating facts from my point of view. And in combat changing of haste armor made quite the differance and screwed a player over which in my book is never something to be achieved unless provoked. 

I got had Janos in a couple of games of mine and he isn't the easiest player but I and another DM (Venus) manage without any real problems. We allowed the most rediculous stuff and the only real problem we ever encounter was a positive energy vampire with a rod of wonder but we won't go into that one at the moment and it's always worked out fine. If a players gets what he wants and still goes for abusing the rules that's a problem but that's just a request away from being stopped. 

Cancelling things out from the start and the always no for an answer for things that might stretch the rules of bend them a bit doesn't fall all to well with me. I always liek to give people an oppertunity to be creative and enjoy the chance when it's been given them. If it doesn't work fine, if the DM trust is abused, fine. But not earlier imho.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 15, 2004)

Fair enough. I see your viewpoint, I suppose you like to let characters be and balance with tailored encounters, I prefer characters to be fairly equal to start with.  Heh I still think I could have avoided a lot of problems in that game by saying "No" more than I did.


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## Serpenteye (Jun 15, 2004)

The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> (And btw yeah Serp and anab we played the field kinda a bit too well in the end  Sucker all do-gooders )




Good times , but I'm afraid I may have ruined my reputation for all times in any future IR games. I don't think I could play in the next one, everyone would gang up on me from the very beginning before I even had the chance to betray them.  So, perhaps I'll have to DM... I could be able to begin the preparations for the game in mid- july, possibly.

Perhaps in 16th-century earth... Spain and portugal colonizing the world, the Ottomans rising to prominence in the middle east, India facing the onslaught of the mughal invasion while the chinese Ming dynasty is starting it's slow decline. Protestantism strengthening the power of the rulers in northern Europe and sowing the seeds of two centuries of religious wars... Meanwhile Pizarro opens an ancient long-forgotten tomb in Peru and unleaches the curse of magic upon the world.
Hmm, that might demand too much on the players' knowledge of history to be much fun.


			
				Mr. Draco said:
			
		

> Hey everyone!
> 
> A friend of mine saw this thread and let me know about it.  Sadly these days I'm to busy with everything to do much enworld surfing, or even RPGs in general these days :-(
> 
> ...




Hey, Draco. Nice to see you too.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 15, 2004)

So, what's the decision? Who's gonna be the Mod(s)?  TFO+Janos in September? Kalanyr (+ ?Cream? Serpy?). I guess it's up to the mod to decide what the setting will be, so before we start throwing around ideas a mod might be handy ;]



Oh, btw, Serpenteye, what are you saying now? The mighty God-Emperor is afraid of some lowlives? Mhehehehe, Evil isn't what it used to be...


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## Kalanyr (Jun 16, 2004)

Remember the Rokugan IR ? I spent pretty much the whole thing trying to get everyone to gang up on you and kill you and no one listened to me. @_@ Despite all evidence that you were up to something *sigh*.


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## William Ronald (Jun 16, 2004)

I have tried to contact Edena, who hopefully will show up on this thread soon.  (He sometimes travels to different parts of the U.S., so  he may be hard to reach at times.) He may wish to be involved, as the IRs were his idea.

I think we need to see what level of interest there is for another IR, how long people wish to participate, and make a decision on moderators.  It might be wise to consider having more than one moderator, because of two issues: a tremendous amount of hard work and the time zone differences.  As I write this, it is about 10:30 p.m. in the Chicago area.  As I recall, Kalanyr is some 18 hours ahead of me.  (I did fill in for Edena for one of the prep threads when I had a lot of time, and tried to adjust my schedule to help the European IR players.  Let's say that it was a bit tiring.)

I think that a clear set of rules, or a keen skill for improvisation will be necessary for any moderator.  I think what surprised me most about the 3rd IR is how inventive many of the players were in terms of strategy, political maneuvers, magic and military  action.  (Creamsteak certainly surprised a few people by keeping a much more powerful foe at bay.)

It might be best to have an established setting with magic.  This would give people some common ground to work with, and provide them with sources of ideas for characterizations of nations and important characters.  Also, it might help attract a few new people or a few old timers.

Uvenelei and Gnomeworks:  Good to see you posting!!!  I hope that both of you are doing well.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 16, 2004)

Ah, it's really nice to see you all here.

Indeed, it's a bit surprise to me how many are willing to moderate.
I'd personlly like to see how Serpent Eye's game would work like, though add in Kalanyr and we would have healthy dose of CG and LE aspects. 

Maybe it's just me, but I've yet to see SE to pull of any good-guys role.
I am really curious, SE, could you pull that off and still manage workable tactics.
There is one other gaming aspect for you to consider too. Doesn't mean you couldn't be "up to something" as well. 

TFO you set your time for be able to moderate a bit, at that time many people probably loose intrest.

SE, as what comes to your ideas about Earth, I see great potential there. Though I for one, aren't really person with that much history knowledge. Or perhaps I should say, that I learned my rpg-worlds in english, but my history books have always been my native languege, and I have little or no idea how some things are said in english.

Though, with enough background info and for example good links Mod wishes to point out for web-pages where needed info is found would help a lot.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 16, 2004)

Hehe just thought I'd drop by and invite all of you to come visit my IRC chat room whenever you want to, Lichtenhart, Janos and I can be found there fairly frequently, Festy_Dog, VenuZ and Zelda has been there a bit too as of recently, and Sollir drops by occasionally.

To access it just go to the chat dropdown menu at the top of the boards click chat (popup), accept the security warning if one comes up, and after the applet has loaded and finished connecting, just type: /join #IR .

For those of you with mIRC or Trillian, its in on the Psionics Net server which is in the list of server options for both programs and after joining again just type /join #IR. 

Hope to see some of you there.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jun 16, 2004)

If there were multiple DM`s, I could be one. 

I am still waiting for my Eberron Compaign Setting, I heard it is great, the world evocative, it might be a really nice place for next IR.  But we could always make two: Earth IR and Eberron IR.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 16, 2004)

Oh, cool Melkor. 

I am still waiting my Eberron book too, or actually I could pick them as soon as I have enought money.

With Earth IR I'd probably stick to playing few npc:s myself.

With Eberron setting I could pick factions too. Fantasy is so much easier  for me


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 16, 2004)

Hmmm, as I dont know anything about Eberron that would be a very hard setting for me, and solo Earth might be hard to play (my world-history is lacking pretty bad =] ), but I guess anything can work.


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## Janos Audron (Jun 16, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> Hmmm, as I dont know anything about Eberron that would be a very hard setting for me, and solo Earth might be hard to play (my world-history is lacking pretty bad =] ), but I guess anything can work.




You're never too old to learn.

-.-;;


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## Knight Otu (Jun 16, 2004)

I kind of like the mystical earth idea. I don't think Eberron is quite as wide-spread yet as it needs to be for an IR, but it would still be an interesting setting. I mean, world history is only important for the first round or so, after that everything is pretty much warped beyond recognition. .


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## William Ronald (Jun 16, 2004)

As for a setting, it should be something that people can pick up.  Eberron, the Forgotten Realms, the World of Greyhawk, the Kingdoms of Kalamar, and the Scarred Lands are all reasonably well known -- or will be soon enough.  The problem with running a mythical Earth is that people will likely have very different interpreptations of it -- and what might or might not exist there.

Additionally, a "name" setting might be easier for new players to work with than a homebrew.  (There has to be a certain common ground in a game, which is perhaps a little harder to establish in a play-by-post game than a face-to-face game.)

Maybe we should have a poll to see what level of interest there is for another IR and where to set it.  Even if a world has been the setting of a previous IR, a new one would likely be very different because of new players, personalities, and plans.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 17, 2004)

I know I like pie.. and I know that any type of IR be it rules based or free form will be a major amount of work on the part of the referee guy thingy!


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 17, 2004)

> I know I like pie




Who doesnt? =p


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## Kalanyr (Jun 17, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> Who doesnt? =p



 Festy Dog and I would like to announce that we are willing to run an IR starting recruitment in roughly 2 weeks. So if you have a preferred setting lodge your vote. (It won't be Eberron because neither of us has the book).


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 17, 2004)

I am all for mystical earth, and I'm not scared by history so I'll let you decide which period do you like better.
I think that, for the sanity of the moderator/s, the game has to have simple rules and compassionate players. I suggest that every player may have max 3 secret projects at one time, and the e-mails to mods that detail the plans have to be IC, so the mods can post them as flashbacks when things are discovered and every player can fully enjoy his fellows' cunning. Same thing for secret alliances among players, it would be nice to post the accords taken when they are no longer secret.


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 17, 2004)

I'm in for a totally custom created world with each player creates his own kingdom or nation with possibly even a custom race (nothing to fancy). This would leave room for a 100% own world by the players.

Else earth is always nice and FR and greyhawk never failed anyone. Allthough the abundance of FR detail might get in the way of people who know like everything there is to know about it


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 17, 2004)

Setting really doesnt matter with me, so I'll go with the flow.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 17, 2004)

I'm still in favor of a mystical earth, but pretty much everything should work for me.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 18, 2004)

1500 views and still dropping like a fly =[ 
*bump*, all still around?


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## 'o Skoteinos (Jun 18, 2004)

Personally, I'd like a world created by the players. In a Greyhawk / FR world there are established diplomatic connections and they might hinder the players...


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 18, 2004)

Mmh, how strange this thread I started has become. 

Carry on.

Strange how many people want to try moderating the game. Well, this is good, however do not fight over it. Everyone gets change to make potential game good.

I still wonder what's up with Edena. Hey Will, if you managed to contact him, ask him just to take peek here and say hi to us. I try to keep this thread alive so that might happen.


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## Mr. Draco (Jun 18, 2004)

I think I'd be up for it, though I'm going to be gone July 2-5, and 15-20.

My preference would definately be for a magical earth.


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## Serpenteye (Jun 18, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> Oh, btw, Serpenteye, what are you saying now? The mighty God-Emperor is afraid of some lowlives? Mhehehehe, Evil isn't what it used to be...




The mighty God-Emperor got lucky. I was an inexperienced player with far too great ambitions and I came close to exctinction several times. I was saved only by the indifference of some of my enemies, and a tricky bit of diplomacy. Even though I and Mr Draco "won" the IR (for a little while at least) it could just as well have gone the other way. 



			
				Kalanyr said:
			
		

> Remember the Rokugan IR ? I spent pretty much the whole thing trying to get everyone to gang up on you and kill you and no one listened to me. @_@ Despite all evidence that you were up to something *sigh*.




What evidence was that? I tried to keep a pretty low profile. Did you find out about my plotting with Sollir? 



			
				Zelda Themelin said:
			
		

> Ah, it's really nice to see you all here.
> 
> Indeed, it's a bit surprise to me how many are willing to moderate.
> I'd personlly like to see how Serpent Eye's game would work like, though add in Kalanyr and we would have healthy dose of CG and LE aspects.
> ...




 Thanks for all the kind words, Zelda. I think it could be fun to try my hand at moderating, but the "unhistorical Earth" -idea was just one concept of many. I could run a game in Greyhawk, Toril, or post nuclear apocalypse Earth too, or even a home-brew player-made setting. We'll have plenty of time to think about that, if another game doesn't start first. Whatever the  setting would be I would probably keep it a bit on the dark side (a bit more unforgiving than Edena, but still fair).
I'm not nearly as good, or fast, a writer as Edena (for one English is not my native tongue), but I think I could handle it. 

Good guys... You probably won't believe me but I tried to make my character in the last IR at least mostly good aligned. But when the Books came around I just couldn't help myself and made a grab for power. At least that time I wasn't being gratuitously cruel or overly self-aggrandizing, my guy actually had the common best at heart but got sucked into a situation with ever increasing stakes and no way to pull out. I guess that's how some people become evil in real life  :\  "The end does not justify the means", "The road to Hell, etc"

I have played good characters in other games, but in an IR there is simply too much at stake for my characters to afford the luxury of goodness. Good is more than simply taking the path of least resistance, if you want to be good (in my view) you have to make sacrifices and expect to lose something substantial from it. Those sacrifices may well turn out to make you stronger, but if you count on that, calculate with that, then they are nothing but investments, and Neutral at best. Good should be harder than evil, the benefits of having allies you can trust makes up for a little extra struggle. If the DM rewards every sacrifice he cheapens them.
 Most people are Neutral, in real life and in the game, Good aligned people are few and far between. (all Imho) 

If I would play a Good faction it would probably have to be some organization so weak or dependant on others that I couldn't afford the risk of making a grab for power.



			
				Kalanyr said:
			
		

> Festy Dog and I would like to announce that we are willing to run an IR starting recruitment in roughly 2 weeks. So if you have a preferred setting lodge your vote. (It won't be Eberron because neither of us has the book).




Great . I'm most familiar with Oerth, Earth and Toril, but I'm open for pretty much anything. Most important here is that it is a setting that you two are comfortable with and would enjoy creating a game in.
A word of advice, guys; Be selfish. Edena burned out because he couldn't pace himself and tried to please everyone. If you enjoy the game (and put some work into it) most of the players will enjoy it too. If you feel like it's getting too much for you take a break before it becomes a burden and then come back with renewed strength. Keep a nice and even pace, and don't let the players rush you. Take all my advice in moderation, the game will be a lot of work and you should be prepared for that.


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## GnomeWorks (Jun 18, 2004)

I'll go with whatever setting we decide to go with.  I don't have a preference.


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## Festy_Dog (Jun 19, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> Great . I'm most familiar with Oerth, Earth and Toril, but I'm open for pretty much anything. Most important here is that it is a setting that you two are comfortable with and would enjoy creating a game in. A word of advice, guys; Be selfish. Edena burned out because he couldn't pace himself and tried to please everyone. If you enjoy the game (and put some work into it) most of the players will enjoy it too. If you feel like it's getting too much for you take a break before it becomes a burden and then come back with renewed strength. Keep a nice and even pace, and don't let the players rush you. Take all my advice in moderation, the game will be a lot of work and you should be prepared for that.




Many thx for the advice. 

We're still throwing ideas back and forth for the exact nature of the setting, (taking in mind people's suggestions) but we're getting there.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 19, 2004)

I want stuff go explody


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 19, 2004)

Just have a 3rd world war and have everything blown to hell, then have a comet strike the earth and have an IR in an everlasting nuclear winter where we can hit eachother with sticks!


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 19, 2004)

Hey, people. Keep this thread up.

I had really really bad luck. My hard disc crashed and after that my xp become corrupted. Last thing was my fault when trying to get info back. I lost 60 Gt unique stuff I can't find anymore and my own writings including all 200+ pdf-files I had honesly paid for. There is no back up copies or anything since I was stupid and now I am so depressed. 

Over 5 years of my life gone to emptiness. 
Almost lost all my photos and self-written rpg stuff too, but fortunaly those I managed to save for most part.

Well, I mainly tell this because I don't want to disappear again since I have intrest for IR but I can't show up in IRC or use forum very much until I get new HD and can re-install stuff, which means till end of the next week.
Besides, this being only thing in my mind currenly, I would make lousy company.

Again RL interferes. Mrrr I only have one kind of luck and that's bad luck.
So, people, I suggest you make backups of your important/hard to find stuff, so you never ever end up in my position.

So, be seeing you.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 19, 2004)

I'm so sorry to hear about that Zelda-I went through a similar experience a while back, and while I didn't lose nearly as much stuff as you had, I can relate.

I'll be out starting tomorrow til friday, and then july 1st-6th, myself, so I hope that won't interfere too much.

My vote would be for either mythological earth.

As for the Rokugan IR, you honestly don't know how hard it is to corrupt a clan to your side when it went through 3 players controlling it before the game even started  (referencing the Dragon clan)

And for the most part, I was planning on abandoning the Shadowlands and using it as a deathtrap rather than as a base...not sure how smart that would have been but I counted on the fact that you really couldn't "conquer" it.  I also had this weird scrying orb artifact thing, but I can't quite remember who I used it on to find out their secret plans, heh.


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## Tokiwong (Jun 20, 2004)

I have no real preference... just make it fun, and I might join the party!


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 21, 2004)

*kickinthebump*


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## Knight Otu (Jun 21, 2004)

Ouch. Sorry to hear that, Zelda. 



			
				The Forsaken One said:
			
		

> Just have a 3rd world war and have everything blown to hell, then have a comet strike the earth and have an IR in an everlasting nuclear winter where we can hit eachother with sticks!



 Eh, _someone _will still manage to blow up the world, even if he only has sticks as tools.



			
				Sollir Furryfoot said:
			
		

> As for the Rokugan IR, you honestly don't know how hard it is to corrupt a clan to your side when it went through 3 players controlling it before the game even started  (referencing the Dragon clan)



 Of course, in the end and in the beginning, there was Sanctus Togashi. *shudders*


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## Zelda Themelin (Jun 22, 2004)

Thanks.

So, things have cooled down here. So what's up? Any thoughts are we starting IR or not and when?

WIlliam, any news on Edena? This tread is going to die down soon.

I prefer fantasy setting myself, but Earth, especially mythic would work too. I find right historical earth slightly boring.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 22, 2004)

This thread is almost as dead as the #IR channel on irc is ;x And that's not a good sign =]
Kal / Festy; status on development? 
Players; still around? 
Zelda; good luck with the restoration of your computer and such =/ Loss of so many things is just... bad =/


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 23, 2004)

I'm still around, if somewhat less active. Though honestly, I fear the effect an IR would have on my studies.


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## GnomeWorks (Jun 23, 2004)

Still here...

And anxiously waiting...   I'll admit that I'm not very happy with how little I was involved in the last IR, so I'm looking forward to a chance to try my hand in a new one...


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## Creamsteak (Jun 23, 2004)

Why not move this into the Talking the Talk forum, since that's where this "belongs" now. It also has less activity going at a given time, so the thread shouldn't disappear so often.


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## Festy_Dog (Jun 23, 2004)

Currently I'm slogging my way through a week of exams, and IR's are no small thing to put together, so it'd probably be wise to say it may be a while yet before things really get rolling.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 23, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> Why not move this into the Talking the Talk forum, since that's where this "belongs" now. It also has less activity going at a given time, so the thread shouldn't disappear so often.




Sounds good to me. Go for it =]


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## Kalanyr (Jun 23, 2004)

We have settled on a Magical Earth beginning around 1901 exactly how magic will be introduced is as yet undecided. I'd like to hear what people are interested in claiming since it may influence how we decide to do things. And CS if you would please do move this to Talking the Talk.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 23, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> I'd like to hear what people are interested in claiming since it may influence how we decide to do things.



 Atlantis and Lemuria!




 What? 



			
				Kalanyr said:
			
		

> And CS if you would please do move this to Talking the Talk.



 I don't think CS has moderator powers outside the Gaming Action Forums. I'll ask for a move in Meta.


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## Pielorinho (Jun 23, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> Sounds good to me. Go for it =]



Your wish is my command.

Daniel


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 23, 2004)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> Your wish is my command.
> 
> Daniel




I wish for $1.000.000.000 to be deposited on my bankaccount today. Thank you.

=].

Anyway, any changes from the real Earth 1900? Atlantis? Any new countries? Or just everything as it is in the historybooks?


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## Kalanyr (Jun 23, 2004)

Thanks Pielorinho.

After further discussion we have decided to take a poll.
We are willing to hold the game either 1 BC or in the 1900s  as outline above, wither way it will be a Mythic earth setting.  If you wish to participate please indicate which year you'd prefer and the country you'd claim for either setting (they can be different). I'm more likely to take Atlantis as a viable choice in the 1 BC game ;p.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 23, 2004)

IF 1BC; I'd claim the Celts. Celts rock.
IF 1900; I'd claim Russia. 

Both are good for me, but are you planning to invoke the IR in 1BC?


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 23, 2004)

My vote goes straight to the BC world, so we won't tangle ourselves in modern religions, and we can have technology evolve in different directions. At that time Chinese already knew gunpowder and rudimental theories about flight, Egyptians, Babilonians and greeks knew more mathematics than people 1000 years later, and Romans could build things it took us 1500 years to discover again how to.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 23, 2004)

Yeah what Lichtenhart said, no IR as such, but I suppose its possible you could advance tech several hundred years if you really must .


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## Knight Otu (Jun 23, 2004)

Thanks, Pielorinho!

 I'd also vote for 1 BC.


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## Pielorinho (Jun 23, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> I wish for $1.000.000.000 to be deposited on my bankaccount today. Thank you.



Done, and you're welcome.  But if Piratecat hacks into your account and steals the money and changes the bank records so it looks like the deposit never happened, you'll have to take that up with him, not me.

Daniel


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 23, 2004)

Pielorinho said:
			
		

> Done, and you're welcome.  But if Piratecat hacks into your account and steals the money and changes the bank records so it looks like the deposit never happened, you'll have to take that up with him, not me.
> 
> Daniel





Piratecat hmmm *insert evil laughter right about.... here*


On topique: 1 BC is fine with me as well. Be prepared for NBC: Nukes Before Christ! =]


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## William Ronald (Jun 23, 2004)

Zelda, I believe Edena may be travelling.  He sometimes takes a few weeks to travel somewhere in the U.S.

If we are doing a Magical Earth, I think we will get more interest with 1 BC than 1900.  (Kalanyr, you could take a poll.) If you do 1 B.C., do a little reading on the Library of Alexandria and science in the ancient world.  (Mark Clover recommended a book to me on the topic.  Suffice it to say that you may have more freedom to alter things in 1 B.C. than only 100 years ago.)


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## Gomez (Jun 23, 2004)

This sounds very interesting. Could someone give me a short summery on what a IR is? And if it is open to new players who where not involved in it before. If so I would like to give it a try. 

Oh my vote would be for a 1 BC type setting.


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## William Ronald (Jun 23, 2004)

Gomez said:
			
		

> This sounds very interesting. Could someone give me a short summery on what a IR is? And if it is open to new players who where not involved in it before. If so I would like to give it a try.
> 
> Oh my vote would be for a 1 BC type setting.




Glad to help out.  IR is short for Industrial Revolution.  Some years back, Edena of Neith wondered what would happen if gnomes started an industrial revolution on Toril, the world of the Forgotten Realms campaign setting.  Edena's question soon became a game, in which the Realms were reshaped by war, magic, and technology. This was followed by the 2nd IR, where former enemies united to protect their world from many threats.

Back in 2002, Edena started a 3rd Industrial Revolution set on Oerth, home of the World of Greyhawk setting.  I was involved in that as a player, and the nations of Oerth (and beyond) went to war.  (You can check out the archived IR.  Creamsteak, can you be kind enough to send Gomez to the relevant links?)

Players controlled nations and had characters representing leaders of those nations.  

Kalanyr and Festy Dog are DMing, so they can answer your questions.  I think we should open up an IR to anyone who makes a commitment to stick with it. So, Gomez, I hope this helps.


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## GnomeWorks (Jun 23, 2004)

As I've said before, I don't have an opinion regarding time period... just tell me when, and I'll be there. 

So either timeframe works for me.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 23, 2004)

Maybe I can help out:

All threads, organised by Creamsteak in the Playing the Game forum;
http://www.enworld.org/forums/showpost.php?p=510491&postcount=7

It's a lot of reading =]


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 23, 2004)

...


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## William Ronald (Jun 23, 2004)

Thanks, Venus.

I would also like to add that the IRs tend to have a lot of action, plotting and good roleplaying.  (I am going to try to get Edena here soon, maybe this weekend.)


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## Knight Otu (Jun 24, 2004)

*Pokes GnomeWorks*

 Shouldn't I get a second e-mail from you?


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## The Forsaken One (Jun 24, 2004)

*Pokes thread*

Shouldn't you get another reply from me?


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## Serpenteye (Jun 24, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> Thanks Pielorinho.
> 
> After further discussion we have decided to take a poll.
> We are willing to hold the game either 1 BC or in the 1900s  as outline above, wither way it will be a Mythic earth setting.  If you wish to participate please indicate which year you'd prefer and the country you'd claim for either setting (they can be different). I'm more likely to take Atlantis as a viable choice in the 1 BC game ;p.




I think I would like 1 BC best. If you end up deciding on that setting I'd like to claim the Parthian Empire (aka. Persia), including modern Iran, Iraq, Afghanistan, southern Azerbaijan, southern Turkmenistan and Kuwait (+possibly parts of western Pakistan). It was a fairly powerful nation, not quite in the same leage as Rome and Han-China, but probably the third strongest, richest and most populated country in the world at the time.

Have you found any good world maps? Any links with useful information? I've searched About.com, but it's mostly focused on the western world.


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## Gomez (Jun 24, 2004)

I found this map. 1 BC would be pretty dominated by the Romans and the Han unless you did some creative rewritting of history.







PS: I would like to run the Maya if it is possible. They were active at this time and their Classic Stage started about 250 AD.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 24, 2004)

That map works will work for Europe and most of Asia. 

 I think I should make up my mind on who to play, unless Kal does allow Atlantis.


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## Serpenteye (Jun 24, 2004)

The Map isn't terribly accurate, and it's not very specific. A lot happened in the 1st century AD, for example the Romans didn't control England at 1BC. The trade routes are quite good to know, though.
The Kuchan Empire was pretty short lived, iIrc, but I'm not sure about its major dates.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 24, 2004)

As I recall the Celts were pretty big in England & a big part of France around 1BC.


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## Lichtenhart (Jun 24, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> As I recall the Celts were pretty big in England & a big part of France around 1BC.



Mmm that would be before Caesar went on his expedition, around 60 years before, right now they have been conquered by Rome. Except in Ireland, where IIRC, Romans never set foot. And if Atlantis should be long since buried below the waves*, there are always the mythic lands of Tir nan Og, Lyonesse, Ys, and Avalon.

*digression: best bet according to mythology would place Atlantis around Canary Islands. Sunk atlantis could still exist though, in a Marvel Comics way, where people adapted to water, or within giant domes that preserve air, with people trying to overcome the catastrophe and raise to the surface to conquer the world once again, maybe bringing lost magic with them, and starting the whole revolution.


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## William Ronald (Jun 24, 2004)

Actually, Rome did not conquer what would one day be England and Wales until the time of Claudius in 40 C.E. (Common Era, or A.D. to Christians.)  Caesar did visit and stir things up.

One of my concerns is that if you have the full Roman Empire at it existed some 2,000 years ago, it might make one faction too powerful.  So, as an alternate history, maybe Augustus was only partially successful after Julius Caesar's assassination in 44 B.C.E.  In which case, you could have a fragmentation of the Roman Republic into different areas and a core "Roman Empire."  Possibly we could tie in the rise of magic into Julius Caesar's death.

This would mean that Marc Anthony and Cleopatra might have set up an empire centered in Egypt.  Again, with alternate history and magic, there is a lot that is possible.


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## Creamsteak (Jun 24, 2004)

How far back does the Mayan civilization and the Iroquois nation date?


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jun 24, 2004)

Hey, got a hold for a little bit-my vote is for 1 B.C., I really do think that would lead to less arguments of RL politics.  If so, I'm interested in taking control of the Han Empire or similar.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 25, 2004)

Creamsteak said:
			
		

> How far back does the Mayan civilization and the Iroquois nation date?




Mayan civilization goes back to something like 2600 BC, and was still growing in 1BC, to be the biggest around 250 AD, according to this link:
http://www.crystalinks.com/mayan.html
For Iroquois I couldn't find anything for now.


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## Gomez (Jun 25, 2004)

Venus said:
			
		

> Mayan civilization goes back to something like 2600 BC, and was still growing in 1BC, to be the biggest around 250 AD, according to this link:
> http://www.crystalinks.com/mayan.html
> For Iroquois I couldn't find anything for now.




The Olmecs where active at this time. They predate the Aztecs and where located about in the same area.


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## William Ronald (Jun 25, 2004)

One consideration for the game is the role of current day religions, some of which would exist in this time period.  (Judaism, Hinduism, Buddhism, Jainism, Zoroastrianism, Confucianism, Shinto, and Taoism come to mind.) In Green Ronin's _Testament_  game, the differing faiths of the ancient Middle East are treated as part of a whole.  Thus, one character could play a priest of Ra and another a prophet during the reign of King Solomon.  I have Testament, and I would recommend this approach.

As for non-human races, possibly some could enter or reenter the world when magic starts. (Or is it restart.) 

There also was a good thread on the Wizards board on an industrial revolution.  One thought about why the ancient world did not have an industrial revolution, despite the presence of some steam powered devices and other tools, is an attitude towards technology.  This view holds that the Greco-Roman world's view as labor being beneath an educated man tended to discourage practical application of science.  Another thought is that the presence of cheap labor, namely slaves, also tended to prevent people from working on labor saving devices.  If there had been a major war some decades prior to the start of the game, population levels and workforce levels could be lower -- thus prompting more of a desire for labor saving devices.

Kalanyr, history is a hobby of mine, so I can help with research if you need it.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 27, 2004)

Any decision on this yet?


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 28, 2004)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> Any decision on this yet?




I believe Kal & Festy decided on a 1BC game, as that's been the topic of conversation in the chat usually, but I guess one of them should confirm that ;]


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## Creamsteak (Jun 28, 2004)

I'll have to do some serious research on the Mayans, but that's what I'd like to run for starters.


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## GnomeWorks (Jun 28, 2004)

We should probably wait for an official list of nations/cultures to choose from, before we start calling what we're going to play.

Just a suggestion, though.


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## Kalanyr (Jun 28, 2004)

1 BC looks to be it to me, far and away the more popular. Heh, and I'm perfectly happy for people to pick themselves way to many factions for an even vaguely accurate comprehensive list.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 28, 2004)

Well, I might take some part of the Roman Empire (I certainly think it should be broken into at least two parts). But if Atlantis happens to be available...


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## William Ronald (Jun 28, 2004)

Hi, Kalanyr:

I will try to send you a few good weblinks in the next few days.  Also, I can probably work up a timeline of what was happening in the Realms or in the World of Greyhawk in 1 B.C.E.

As for non-humans, they may reawaken or arrive when magic starts up.  

Also, I tried to contact Edena, but without any luck.  He might have some good advice for you.  Heck, maybe we can get him to play!!


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## Kalanyr (Jun 29, 2004)

Double Post


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## Kalanyr (Jun 29, 2004)

Atlantis firmly belongs to the Hand of Plot.

Thanks William could come in handy though I think Festy and I agreed to avoid crossovers for the moment. 

My preliminary thoughts:

People will start with control of approximately half a nation, whether this be absolute control of half the land and people (civil war) or contested influence over the whole nation. Probably break the Roman Empire into East and West for nations (a few centuries early though).


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## Serpenteye (Jun 29, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> My preliminary thoughts:
> 
> People will start with control of approximately half a nation, whether this be absolute control of half the land and people (civil war) or contested influence over the whole nation. Probably break the Roman Empire into East and West for nations (a few centuries early though).




Perhaps the players of smaller countries would have a greater degree of control over the country than rulers of the greatest empires. China and Rome would be more divided than Maya, for example. This would be very unhistorical, but it's perhaps better than the alternative.

 The Celts were never a unified kingdom (though some of their tribes banded together at times), their division and infighting was the major reason why the romans could conquer them, but I guess that could change in the game. Since the Celts were rather weak around year 0, they should probably be a highly centralized kingdom on the british isles fighting to liberate their conquered countrymen in france, iberia, southern germania and the low countries.


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## Knight Otu (Jun 29, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> Atlantis firmly belongs to the Hand of Plot.



 Guess that puts me into Rome.


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## Gurdjieff (Jun 29, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> The Celts were never a unified kingdom (though some of their tribes banded together at times), their division and infighting was the major reason why the romans could conquer them, but I guess that could change in the game. Since the Celts were rather weak around year 0, they should probably be a highly centralized kingdom on the british isles fighting to liberate their conquered countrymen in france, iberia, southern germania and the low countries.




Don't forget, it's an IR/MR/whatever. History is being rewritten! ;p


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## Knight Otu (Jul 1, 2004)

*Bumps his head on thread*

 Ouch, why is it hanging so low?


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## Serpenteye (Jul 1, 2004)

Have you decided on any rules yet? We should probably limit the rate of mechanical PL- and tech- increase, perhaps introduce a few new types of PL to create more accuracy.

Random musings and recommendations.

BPL: Base Power Level: The sum of your power, is divided into your other kinds of PL. It increases based on your PPL and you can distribute the increase between your other kinds of PL (except PPL).

PPL: Productive Power Level: Based on the population and tech-level of the province. It determines the rate of increase of your BPL.

MiPL: Military Power Level: Determines the size and power of your armies and the willingness and ability of your people to spontaneously rise against an invader,(when assigned to civilians its cost is halved but you will likely suffer a lot of civilian casualties which will decrease your PPL.)
The MiPL of a unit should also decrease continuously to reflect natural deaths and desertions, it should increase when a unit becomes more experienced.

MaPL: Magical Power Level: Determines the power of your spellcasters in a fair fight, and also is the basis for your magical research. Since spellcasters are hard to train (and rarely fight fairly) this PL is twize as expensive in BPL as the other PLs. The MaPL of a unit should also decrease continuously to reflect natural deaths and desertions, it should increase when a unit becomes more experienced.

GPL: Gold Power Level: BPL can also be converted to gold, which can be given or traded with allies, and then be converted back. I don't think we should bother with inflation, but make GPL the best way to hoard BPL in the long term.

TPL: Tech Power Level: Determines the rate technology (and thereby PPL) increases. Tech should probably include social improvements such as education and religious propaganda networks.

Technology does tend to spread on its own, though, and any tech that's used by civillians or by your armies in a war is almost certain to spread to your neigbours (if they recognize its value, and since this is an IR they will). Though they may not necessarily have the wealth and infrastructure to use it, (another complication... how would one solve this?).

Population is a factor in the PPL and the level of the peoples education and their loyalty and stability should also factor into the PPL.
 After a certain point a decrease in PPL should result in a decrease in BPL, (civilizations do fall as easily as rise after all and most of them fell mostly due to internal causes). Perhaps it could be ruled that a province needs a certain amount of production to maintain itself (food etc.), and if it doesn't get that the people will become restless and the BPL of the province will fall. It is only the surplus that results in growth, and economies grew slowly before the industrial revolution. (Even when the industrial revolution was well underway the average GNP-increase was a modest 1-2 percent per year in the UK, since most of the economy wasn't industrial.) One would need to do some calculating to determine the best break-off point.


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## William Ronald (Jul 1, 2004)

Interesting ideas, Serpenteye.  I think working on fair and balanced rules will be a challenge.  I think that Edena's policy of limiting players to a certain initial amount of power levels was a good one that helped make the 3rd IR more enjoyable.

Kalanyr:  I will try to get to the IR chat room soon.


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jul 1, 2004)

*Hello there*

Hello there, everyone.  
  I just got back from a long and difficult trip, and have only recently learned of this thread.  But here I am, and here it is.  I will read all of it, and then have a ton of replies and comments, as usual.  
  I think the idea of an IR Reunion is great.  I am glad this thread was started.  I haven't read it yet, but I hope it has been the kind of congenial and pleasant thread a reunion should be.
  You guys and girls are great, you know that?  My IR friends I remember, and remember very well.  You made it worth all the time and effort.  I probably would have left ENWorld but for you, because my interest in gaming was fading (but you brought the fun back.)
  I consider you all my friends.  To all of you, I give my greetings, and my continued friendship.  I would return the joy to you, that you gave me.

  Edena_of_Neith


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## William Ronald (Jul 1, 2004)

Glad to have you here, Edena!!! You have been missed here at EN World.


Tak your time in reading the thread, and rest up from your trip.  You might want to check some of the recently released PDFs and other products here at EN World and mentioned in the reviews section.  It seems that magic and technology working together, or at least magic working like technology, is not such a strange concept anymore.  (To me, having read about different cultural practices in the real world, the point of magical rituals was to affect some sort of change.  So, in a sense, magic in D&D already served one of the same goals that technology does in the real world: getting the job done!)


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## Knight Otu (Jul 1, 2004)

Welcome back, Edena! 

 Serpenteye, you're making my head hurt.  Somewhat. But it looks good, maybe a bit complex.


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## Lichtenhart (Jul 1, 2004)

I stick to my opinion: the more freeform it'll be, the better. But for everything that actually needs a form, SE's suggestions are great. 

And I'm immensely happy to see you back, Terry. Hope to hear more from you soon.


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jul 1, 2004)

*From Edena_of_Neith*

Hey there.  Thanks for the warm welcome back.

  I am having a LOT of trouble with this new version of Netscape Navigator, and MIE does not work at all.
  I read through page one, and I began one of my giant mass reply posts.  I spent an entire hour on it, responding to each post.  Then, near the end, it froze my computer, and I lost all my work.
  I cannot issue the kind of mass reply that you'all have come to see as a trademark of mine.  Not while I'm stuck with this system.

  I'm trapped down here at the bottom of page 9, and I can't get out.

  I wish to say hi to Zelda, and greetings to Finland.  How are you doing?  (And Zelda, I would not say yours was a weak, neutral, power.  Two scheming Union of Oerth players are lucky you didn't walk in their back door and squash them.)
  I want to say hi to Venus, thanks for his letter, and greetings to the Netherlands.  How are you doing?
  The same to 'o Skoteinos.  How are you doing?
  Greetings to you, Dagger.  How are you doing?
  William, it goes without saying:  Hey there, and merry meetings!
  Lichtenhart, nice to see you again!  How are ya?
  Knight Otu:  Hey there.  How are ya?  (What power did you play, by the way?  I'm getting Alzheimer's ... I'm losing my memory!)  Greetings to Germany!
  Festy Dog, are you there?  (I love that SN, but I'd hate to run into a festy dog alone in the countryside!)
  Forgotten One, where are you?
  Melkor, where are you?
  Creamsteak ... congrats on becoming a moderator.  What is it like, being an ENWorld Moderator?  And, how are you?
  Darkness, how are you doing?  And greetings to Austria.
  Kalanyr, hey there!  Greetings to Australia.  Greetings to Oz (why do they call it Oz?  Is it derived from Frank Baum's Oz.  If Australia is THAT nice, then everyone in the world will be moving to Australia!)
  Forrester, are you still around?
  Darwin of Mind, where'd you go?
  Gez, are you around?
  Maudlin, the MAPMAKER (and EVERYONE should remember his beautiful maps) where did you go?  I never saw you again after Turn 5.
  Darkness, hey there.  Greetings to Germany.  How are you doing?  Again, I'm sorry the IR didn't turn out as well as it should have.  I got bogged down by all the happenings.  I couldn't react fast enough.
  Anabstercorian, where is my favorite illithid?  (William, reason is useless against illithid, since they consider human beings below reason.  Hehe.)
  Balor, are you still with us?
  John Brown, creator of Dark Byzantium, hey there.  I hope you are there. I'm sorry things didn't work out.  Perhaps in a 4th IR, they would!
  Hey there, Sollir.  Are you there?  Greetings to the player who worked with Creamsteak to hold off two very scheming players of the Union of Oerth!

  Now I know I've missed a whole lot of people.  I'm just trying to address those on page one, which I've read!  Bear with me here, guys and girls.  I'm just Edena!
  Someone post a list.  Of ALL our players.  So I can greet you all.  So I don't have the stupid, paltry excuse of failed memory to have to fall back on!  I want to say hi to everyone again!  


  I'm still on page one of this thread.
  I think Melkor was a blast, and wish to say so.  And, heh, he almost blasted ALL of you into entropy!  The taraakians barely saved you.  Blame Forsaken One, who held out on you!    (Long live the Swarm!  Cheers, Forsaken One    )
  I hope Melkor is still with us.  I really do.  Hey there, Melkor.  If you read this, reply to an old friend.  And remember, you DID blow up all those Crystal Spheres ... it's just the taraakians recreated them as the Demiplane of Hope, and transferred the spirits of the living to that Demiplane, an instant before you blew up everything.  Blame Forsaken One, who cooperated with the taraakians at the last instant!


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## Knight Otu (Jul 1, 2004)

No need to worry, Edena. I actually entered the picture as a active player with the Rokugan IR.  Before that, I was watching.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

Hi to all. And hi to you Edena, glad to see you I am, the Oz thing is because we abbreviate Australia as AUS and it sounds like Oz.  

Festy and I have worked out some preliminary rules which are below

The Theory: D10s are fun.

The Detail:  In general player vs player conflict will be resolved by us rolling a d10 for each player the highest roll wins. However it gets a bit more complex, since Festy and I will award bonuses for strategy and such. If your bonus reaches +10 you drop to a +5 bonus and roll an extra d10, 10s are open ended (that is we keep rolling and add until we get a not 10, this means that an underdog might pull off a surprising victory). To simplify things each country will have 3 ratings that serve as a base for most things Military, Diplomacy and Espionage, everyone will start with a net sum of 0 although you can start with up to a -2 penalty in 2 of them for a maximum of +4 to one. To these bases Festy and I will be awarded penalties and bonuses at our discretion for cool plans and such, we will also adjust the bases after each turn based on your actions that turn.

Other meandering thoughts: If you get severely beaten ie by 3 or more points your score in the appropriate field will be reduced by -1/3 points you were beaten by. This is to discourage underdogs from continuously attacking big powers and relying on luck to win. 

Technology and Magical advancement will allow more interesting plans for circumstance bonuses and will also increase your base scores. This system is fairly freeform but does have some static points to encourage canny resource use.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

As an example lets say

Country A: Military: +4 Diplomacy: -2 Espionage: -2
Attacks
Country B: Military: +1 Diplomacy: -2 Espionage: +1

Festy and I make an opposed Espionage check to see if Country B gets an early warning of attack, since Country A has been taking no steps to conceal things and recruiting like crazy this is at a -4 penalty for Country A. So we roll Country A (d10-6) and Country B (d10+1), which gives Country A a 3 and Country B a 3. So Country B finds out (ties go to the aggressor), and they set about making preparations for country As attack, they manage to force country A to attack on an unfavourable battle field giving country A a -2 penalty. The battle is resolved by rolling d10+2 (A) and d10+1 (B) getting a 5 (A) and a 2 (B), Country B gets thrashed and suffers a -1 penalty to their miltary rating. 

In the case of joint attacks or defenses half the smaller bonuses are added to the larger bonus but losses are split evenly if you are beaten.


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## Bugbear (Jul 2, 2004)

Greetings and salutations 
I just happened a'pon this thread and thought I'd say 'ello.
For those of you who don't remember me, I was Turrosh Mak, leader of the Pomarj for the early chapters of the third IR, until I passed that torch to O'Skoteinos. I was also responsible for (or at least enabled) a good deal of the behind the scenes ploting and backstabing preformed by the Oreth Alliance.

Good to "see" you all again


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

Hey BugBear/Turrosh Mak good to see you again. . Backstabbing ? The Oerth Alliance performed backstabbing ? Where ?


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## William Ronald (Jul 2, 2004)

Bugbear, good to see you!!  Turrosh Mak was an incredible character, and I think you surprised a lot of people in the IR.  Especially Serpenteye and Mr. Draco.  

Kalanyr, the rules sound interesting.  I will try to send you some online resources this weekend.  Some may be a little weird, but use whatever you wish.  (We might as well start sending resources Kalanyr's way.)

If there are a great many people wishing to participate in an IR, you might want to consider adding a third moderator.


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## Festy_Dog (Jul 2, 2004)

Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> Festy Dog, are you there? (I love that SN, but I'd hate to run into a festy dog alone in the countryside!)




Many thx, the name was actually inspired by a brand of beer.  

I'm here though, me and Kal are putting together a rather good looking set of guidelines to run the game with. I'm just the quieter of us two so everyone's likely to get see more posts from him.



			
				William Ronald said:
			
		

> If there are a great many people wishing to participate in an IR, you might want to consider adding a third moderator.




I like that idea, we'll keep it in mind. 


More on the rules we've come up with:

Turn length is going to be a tad different in this one, and it'll tie in with another aspect that we don't think has been considered before. We're going to make each turn 3 months long, or rather each turn will last a season (summer, winter, etc.) and the general environment and weather conditions caused by a season will affect efforts made by either side of a conflict for better or worse (expect an offensive to be very difficult in winter, depending on your location  ). Drawed military and espionage checks in winter and autumn will not go to the aggressor, but rather to the defender in these cases.

About the d10 combat system though, we've decided to make the base roll 2d10 rather than 1d10, but to keep the modifer trade in the same. So when someone achieves a modifier of +10 on a roll they trade in +5 for an additional d10 (2d10+10 becomes 3d10+5, and 3d10+10 becomes 4d10+5, etc.). The reverse also applies, if a person's modifier drops below +5 they lose a d10 in exchange for a +5 increase to their modifier, a person can't have less than 2d10 though.

Any helpful opinions are welcome.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

Hmmm, well less than 2d10-9 to be exact. For the minimum.


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## Creamsteak (Jul 2, 2004)

> Creamsteak ... congrats on becoming a moderator. What is it like, being an ENWorld Moderator? And, how are you?




Very weird sort of question I guess. Being the moderator for the forums I'm a moderator for is a pain in the butt, but it lets me do a lot of things that I enjoy the privilages to that other users don't have access to (so they get to ask me to do it for them... heh... double bladed sword). Delete stuff, archive stuff, move stuff, lock stuff, search for stuff. I have someone working with me too now, Brother Shatterstone, which is nice.

As for how I do... eh. Lots of ideas, not enough places to apply them or not enough resources (time or money) to push them as hard as I'd like. Same as everyone else in the world, I assume.


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## Creamsteak (Jul 2, 2004)

I'm a bit leary about your choice of scores. Espionage, Diplomacy, and Military seem to leave a lot of holes for filing ad-hock while only giving scores to 3 general sorts of actions.

Espionage, I assume, would also include sabotage actions. I also assume this contains counter-espionage (two powers with high espionage could have counter counter counter agents and the like).

Diplomacy is more difficult. It's hard to use diplomacy with other players that might be unwilling. What about including "loyalty" or "morale" under diplomacy? A charismatic leader that has gained high degrees of political power would likely have a more unionized people. Diplomacy should include a certain degree of internal elements.

Military... is fine. I assume there will be circumstance bonuses out the yang in an IR though, as I'm sure there will be PLENTY of nasty ideas bein thrown about.


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## Zelda Themelin (Jul 2, 2004)

Hi Edena 

Hi people, I found the thread again.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

Yeah Diplomacy includes Loyalty/Morale. We are listening if someone wants to throw other score ideas around but we definitely want to keep it at no more than 5 scores with a heavy preference for 3.


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## Creamsteak (Jul 2, 2004)

I think you can work within those 3, but you might want to broaden out the top level structures for them a bit. Start from the ground and see what is necessary, then see how to "categorize" them. My thoughts are that Espionage (even including all of it's subsets such as defensive, anti-terrorism, anti-theft, etc.) still sounds like too specific of a word. Same for diplomacy. I'm having some serious trouble thinking of good words though. I'm trying to think of what all each encompasses, and what might fall out of the loop.

Also, how would you attack another person's "diplomacy" bonus exactly? I try to out persuede you? I assume you could "bluff" them, or "intimidate" them with this. Not sure though.

Espionage, intelligence, counter intelligence, sabotage, internal security, policeing, networking, etc.

Would "control" over your own people be espionage or diplomacy? By that I mean, a truly vicious government would likely keep a tight control (espionage), and also maintain a false sense of loyalty that makes themselves a unified power. Meanwhile another group would have very strong diplomacy score and maintain a nearly unified people as far as controlling the people to act in a certain way. The two end up being slightly related I guess...

Diplomacy, loyalty, morale, possibly "general pleasure" or "entertainment" could be a part, etc.

Military, manpower, arms, discipline, general fighting ability. Looks good to me.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

Diplomacy is primarily internal relations (such as your peoples loyalty and your control), and diplomatic relations with uncontrolled powers. You damage Diplomacy by making people lose face, if you are so much better at persuading (Uncontrolled Area) Y to join you, than they are it damages their credibility, which also makes their people lose faith in them. Diplomacy could also be used if someone attempted to cause civil unrest (probably Diplomacy (Defender) vs Espionage (Attacker)). 

Espionage is primarily spying and sabatoge on external powers and defending yourself from such attempts. 

Military is your ability to conquer people by the sword.

If something else comes up Festy and I will discuss it and assign it to an appropriate header or just use pure Circumstance bonuses to a basic 2d10+0.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

If you come up with an alternate name for Espionage or Diplomacy we'd be happy to consider it.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Hi Edena , this scheming UoO player is very glad to see you around again. I would really like seeing you as a player in this game, I have a feeling you would be a lethal opponent and an invaluable ally. (I have the feeling I'm going to need allies in this one. )

-

Kalanyr, Festy, I've only given the rules a brief glance, but they look, as William wrote, interesting. I think they are a good start.
How are you planning on including magic and (higher) technology into the rules? What kind of mechanics will you use for growth, and how much is a PL worth in the different areas (what can you do with 1 PL)?
Will you factor in population growth and decrease in PL-calculations? Will you include random events such as famines and plagues? 

I think the (unfinished) rules I suggested could be a useful complement to your system, but I am quite biased.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jul 2, 2004)

*Do we have to play nations?*

I am not sure I will join yet, but I intend to play a secret organization/cult( or even several appearing to be quite diffrent on surface)  that are allied with the Powers Beyond. Could my PL be a part of the nations played by others players? It will be pretty weak at the beginning, but will grew in power as more magical elements will appear.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

Hmmm, I'll have to talk to Festy about that Melkor, but my basic feeling is that it wouldn't have to necesarily be a nation. 

Serpenteye: Advancement is simply based on the quality of your posts and emails about advancing magic and tech. At the current stage we aren't going to use PL at all.


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## Melkor Lord Of ALL! (Jul 2, 2004)

Edena_of_Neith said:
			
		

> Hey there.  Thanks for the warm welcome back.
> 
> I am having a LOT of trouble with this new version of Netscape Navigator, and MIE does not work at all.
> I read through page one, and I began one of my giant mass reply posts.  I spent an entire hour on it, responding to each post.  Then, near the end, it froze my computer, and I lost all my work.
> ...




Hi Edena, your Gamemastering was brilliant!  Nice to hear from you again, I am living in Poland like I always did, studying law( law education in Poland is a bit diffrent than in USA, you need to learn for 7 years if you want to be a lawyer with all legal rights), I have finished my first year exams a month ago.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> Serpenteye: Advancement is simply based on the quality of your posts and emails about advancing magic and tech. At the current stage we aren't going to use PL at all.




So it's enough simply to make a statement of intent? If I write that I'm trying to invent the Steam Engine (and describe how I would go about doing that) would I suddenly have rail-roads crossing my country?


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Have you given any thought to the cosmology of the world? Are there any Powers Beyond? Are there devils, deities, demons and (I was about to say angels, but that would be a can of worms best left unopened) other outsiders of various alignments who act as divine servants? What about elementals, fey, monsters, aberrations and demi-humans?


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

A statement of intent and sufficient time yes, if you say you're inventing the steam engine and have made the necessary prior discoveries like steel and don't immediately launch a war on your neighbour, then yes you will make the discovery, you won't however suddenly have a network of railways unless you state that too and that will also take time. 

There may be outsiders drawn from the mythology of the various countries, there won't be demihumans D&D style (who tend to be humans in funny costumes).


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Is there a cost involved in researching and applying technology?


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## Kalanyr (Jul 2, 2004)

In general no, not really apart from manpower which is an abstract quantity that Festy and I shall be judging. Some discoveries may have other costs though, like nuclear research may have baneful effects on your scores if something goes wrong.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 2, 2004)

Does the Manpower aspect apply to magic-research too, or can even the tiniest factions advance as fast as the great empires? It seems logical that there would be more brilliant people in a larger group than in a smaller one, generally speaking.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 3, 2004)

We will be working on the assumption that everyone starts of with roughly equal groups, probably by having some sort of influence over surrounding territories for smaller countries, it allows us to avoid having people try to grab the maximum available PL.


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## Gurdjieff (Jul 4, 2004)

Sounds like we're getting somewhere =) And that's a good thing I guess =]



> I want to say hi to Venus, thanks for his letter, and greetings to the Netherlands. How are you doing?




Edena; Hi there! Good to see you made it over here =) I was starting to wonder if I had the right email-address. Everything's fine here, only the summer is taking way too long to show itself. How are things down in the Michigan? Gonna have time to join us in this IR as a player? =]


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## Serpenteye (Jul 4, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> We will be working on the assumption that everyone starts of with roughly equal groups, probably by having some sort of influence over surrounding territories for smaller countries, it allows us to avoid having people try to grab the maximum available PL.




That will work in the beginning, but everybody's not going to stay at the same relative power for very long.
 Speaking of which, I don't really understand why you're dropping PLs entirely. They are a very convenient way to save everyone from the bother of having to write down the exact numbers, training and equipment of their every army. PLs are just so much simpler. They allow us to fight on multiple fronts against multiple enemies without getting totally bogged down, and easily allows us to analyze the strengths of our allies and enemies. The system is also helpful for describing the efforts put into research and development.
I guess that my biggest issue is about the "free-form" rules of the game. I feel that in the long run it's going to cause a lot more problems, and a lot more work for all of us, than a rules-based system would. But I already knew we had different alignments...


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## Kalanyr (Jul 4, 2004)

The trouble with PL is that you need to define a research scale where boosting PL isn't clearly superior to advancing research nor vice versa. (which was a 3rd IR problem, PL advancement was far far more efficient than magic research in terms of relative gain) and for the purpose of people changing size it will just increase the basic bonuses for the 3 stats we are using (and thats the other reason PL is way way to much bookwork).


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## Edena_of_Neith (Jul 4, 2004)

Hey there, Bugbear.  Melkor.  Venus.  Who played the offshore power east of the Union of Oerth?   Our younger player?  I have forgotten his SN, and would like to say hello to him.

  Can I play?  I don't know.  I just don't know.
  We are moving soon, and it's taking up a lot of my time.


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## Kalanyr (Jul 5, 2004)

kaboom was responsible I think.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 6, 2004)

Whatever means you use to advance power you might as well quantify power as PL. It is easier than having to spell out the statistics of all our armies in detail and a lot more presice than having to call our armies (or spying expeditions, or magi-taskforces) "minor", "medium" or "major", and it's a lot more fun than only being able to fight one battle at a time in which we can only commit our full power (which it seems like you are suggesting, if I understand you correctly).
We can use the words Power Levels regardless of wether we get tech and magic advancement for free or if we use a more detailed system, it's convenient either way. I think I understand your point, you want to keep it simple. Do you understand mine? Because I want the same thing.


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## William Ronald (Jul 6, 2004)

An advantage of using some form of PLs is that it might make it easier to allocate resources and deploying forces.

Kalanyr, I will try to be in the IR chatroom for a while tonight. (I am six hours behind GMT.)


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## Serpenteye (Jul 6, 2004)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> An advantage of using some form of PLs is that it might make it easier to allocate resources and deploying forces.




My point exactly. It seems we agree on something for once . Have you given any thought to which faction you want to play?


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## William Ronald (Jul 7, 2004)

I am debating between the Celts of the British Isles or the ancient Judaeans (or the part of the Roman Empire that would contain them.)  There are so many factions  to chose from in such a game.  I think PLs and an initial assignment of them might help with balance issues at the start of a game.  (Some factions will grow, others shrink.  This is to be expected.)

I also think that some non-humans might work.  The Celtic sidhe and the Norse alfar as well as the Norse dwarves. And giants.  However, that might be a little too much.

I am also working on a list of historical resources, similar to the first post in my Maps and Other Campaign Resources thread.  (I am working on an update on that -- I hoped more people would contribute to it. Oh, well.)  I have not worked on Han China yet but Sollir will be pleased to know that I found several interesting links on the Kushan Empire.


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## Sollir Furryfoot (Jul 7, 2004)

Hey, just got back a few hours ago-glad to see this thing is still churning.  I approve of the rules, although I'm sort of inbetween on the PL thing.  I think it should just be a representation of how many forces you have to split up between various activities-not necessarily power, though.  Also consider splitting up the 3 categories-for instance, it might be cool to have a power with their Military with a Naval Power score 1 higher but a Land Power score 1 lower than normal.

Can't wait to see the info, William, thanks!


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## Serpenteye (Jul 7, 2004)

William Ronald said:
			
		

> I am debating between the Celts of the British Isles or the ancient Judaeans (or the part of the Roman Empire that would contain them.)




I know you are a deeply religious person, with strong ties to Judaea. In a friendly game such as this it's important to be able to keep ones emotional distance to what happens and not get personally offended when things go wrong. That can be hard enough to do under normal cirqumstances, when the game is only a game, but when the game comes to represent a matter of great personal importance it will be all but impossible. The "Holy Land" might just be a bit too holy...
You have probably considered this already, and you are the only one who knows your own limitations. Whatever faction you choose I'm sure you will perform admirably.


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## Gurdjieff (Jul 7, 2004)

> I am debating between the Celts of the British Isles or the ancient Judaeans (or the part of the Roman Empire that would contain them.)




Hmm, I'm also interested in the Celts (for quite some time already, I believe it was one of my first reactions on 1 BC game). Just so you know =]


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## Gurdjieff (Jul 12, 2004)

*kickbumpsmackup*


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## Zelda Themelin (Jul 13, 2004)

So people. How are things proceeding?


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## Kalanyr (Jul 13, 2004)

I am pondering PL and the fact that it is yet another number yet most people want to implement it, and how to resolve this without compromising my need to maintain my sanity.


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## Serpenteye (Jul 13, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> I am pondering PL and the fact that it is yet another number yet most people want to implement it, and how to resolve this without compromising my need to maintain my sanity.




That's up to you, do what you want, I'll play either way. (You won't get rid of me that easily )

How many players do we have, as of now? Who has decided to play and which country have they chosen?

Serpenteye: Parthia (Persia)


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## William Ronald (Jul 13, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> I am pondering PL and the fact that it is yet another number yet most people want to implement it, and how to resolve this without compromising my need to maintain my sanity.




We have not even done a general recruiting thread yet, so there may be more people than just those who have posted here.  I am working on a list of web links for people to use as sources for their historical factions.  (I can e-mail you the list when I am done with it, for your use.)

I agree that keeping the game manageable is important.  The last IR literally took hours each day for Edena to run.  So, take your time in figuring out what you need to do. I have faith that you will come up with a few good solutions to the issues you are considering now.


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## Knight Otu (Jul 17, 2004)

*Hello!ello!llo!lo!*o!


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## Kalanyr (Jul 18, 2004)

After some thought I have decided to implement something similar to PL but its going to be very different than the 3rd IR.

Each player will begin with 10 PL. Smaller countries will be worth less PL (usually 5). The only way to increase PL will be through conquest. Technology and magic increase the 3 prior ratings we mentioned not PL.


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## orbitalfreak (Jul 18, 2004)

Howdy all.  I've not participated in an IR thread, but have read and enjoyed the prior Revolution threads.  The first two (especially the second!) were amazing, great fun reads; I didn't follow the later episodes closely, though.  This time around, I'd like to take a more active role in world destruction, er, domination, er... whatever .  If possible, I would like to play the part of the Native North Americans (the Indians); maybe a slightly more unified, less independent tribes, setup would be more conducive to the game?  Doesn't really matter to me, though, who I end up playing, I'd just like to take a part in this extravaganza!


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## Serpenteye (Jul 18, 2004)

Kalanyr said:
			
		

> After some thought I have decided to implement something similar to PL but its going to be very different than the 3rd IR.
> 
> Each player will begin with 10 PL. Smaller countries will be worth less PL (usually 5). The only way to increase PL will be through conquest. Technology and magic increase the 3 prior ratings we mentioned not PL.




Will there be a rule to describe casualties (civilian and military)? Would casualties (not only loss of territory) result in a reduction of PL or something else?


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## Kalanyr (Jul 19, 2004)

Casualties result in damage to Military/Morale/Espionage once you're at 1d10-9 in all 3 you're basically out of it as a power and effectively totally destroyed.


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## William Ronald (Jul 20, 2004)

Giving this thread a much deserved bump!!

The rules sound interesting.  A key thing to consider is that a small territory can expand and conquer others.  Technology can be a vital edge for some powers, as was historically seen with the British Empire.


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## Gurdjieff (Jul 21, 2004)

So Kal, Festy, any news from the front? Still working on the rules, or anything?


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## Serpenteye (Jul 21, 2004)

I hope I have not discouraged you with my questions, it's just my little way of helping you with the creative process . I am grateful for all the work you put into this.


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## 'o Skoteinos (Jul 22, 2004)

So, how far are you in the preparations? Rules complete? Powers done? And if so, could you post a summary?


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## William Ronald (Jul 22, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> I hope I have not discouraged you with my questions, it's just my little way of helping you with the creative process . I am grateful for all the work you put into this.




I think questions are helpful, as they can clarify rules and give a sense of what players want -- always important in any game.  I am also still working on my web links list on various cultures, which I will e-mail to Kalanyr. (It might be useful in a recruiting thread.)


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## Gurdjieff (Jul 29, 2004)

One-Week-Kick-Bump.

Any news from the front?
No news is good news?


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## Knight Otu (Jul 29, 2004)

I think there's some discussion going on in the chatroom #IR (or however that is written - I'm not much of a chat user).


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## Gurdjieff (Jul 31, 2004)

If I understood correctly Kal and/or Festy are writing up a summary, so I guess we wait some more =].

And it's indeed channel #IR on chat.psionics.net


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## Knight Otu (Aug 6, 2004)

And another bump, but without echocho_ho_.


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## Serpenteye (Aug 18, 2004)

Are we doing this or what? Kalanyr, Festy Dog? If you've changed your minds I think you should let us all know.


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## Festy_Dog (Aug 19, 2004)

Ah, sorry about that all, meant to do this sooner but things have a way of slipping from attention.

Kal and I are both full-time university students, and after our current semesters got underway it came to our attention that our uni workloads would compete with the demands of running an IR. That said, neither of us are enthusiastic to endanger our marks so you can attribute that lull to the realisation of what running an IR would entail. 

On that note I guess this could be a formal resignation from running the IR, and an apology for not saying so sooner.

Again, sorry about that peoples.


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## Gurdjieff (Aug 19, 2004)

*pokes the IR with a stick*

It's really dead guys ;]

Np Festy & Kal, stuff like that happens. GL at the uni!


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## Lichtenhart (Aug 19, 2004)

Nah the spirit of IR never really dies. Kal and Festy manage to get away before it was too late, but it's still out there looking for a new host, for a new body to steal for a new mind to consume. Be sure to wear your tinfoil hat tonight.


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## Knight Otu (Aug 19, 2004)

Thanks to let us know, Festy.  Your marks are much more important - good luck with that.


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## Serpenteye (Aug 19, 2004)

Ok, thanks.  Good luck with that.


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## Zelda Themelin (Aug 27, 2004)

Ok, anyone else has intrest for this project?


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## Serpenteye (Aug 27, 2004)

I would barely even have the time for playing . (Being a responsible adult sucks   )


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## The Goblin King (Aug 27, 2004)

The ancient world isn't really my bag.  I was just going to sit this one out and watch.

However, I have been pondering a spin-off project.  Called the Cybernetic Revolution it takes place far in the future.  In the future mankind has finally reached beyond this little blue world and begun colonizing other stars.  This is done by first sending robots to the world.  The robots gather resources and build more robots.  They then build the cities, roads, factories, and farms.  The robots are watched over by a sophisticated mega-computer at the center of the city.  On planet EXC-505 the work was proceeding perfectly according to the timeline.  Until it came time for the human colonists to arrive by sleeper ship.  Due to an accident in deep space about 75% were dead in thier freeze tubes.  The components of the ship were needed to make the colony run so there was no way to get word to earth (there is no FTL communication).  All the colonists could do was wait for the resupply ship.  Life was hard but fair.  They had volunteered to start over on a new world after all.  Things soon took a turn for the worse.  Robots began disobeying and the mega-computers began acting wierd.  There was talk of shutting them down but that was of course impossible.  The computers were integrated into the city and managed every function.  In horror the scientists discovered that the central computers had spontaneously Awakened.

You play a new AI with an entire city at your command.  The one sticking point I am still milling over is technology sharing.  I had envisioned this to be a much more 'crunchy' game with tech trees spelling out how you proceed with advancing your research.  Allied AIs sharing tech would be able to benefit from it without expending any resources.  Imagine if your Fighter decided to loan the party Wizard access to his Great Cleave feat.  However, short of banning tech sharing I don't see a way around this.


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## Knight Otu (Aug 27, 2004)

Interesting. Inspired by Gurps - Reign of Steel, by chance?


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## William Ronald (Aug 27, 2004)

Serpenteye, I am uncertain how much time I could devote to an online game as I have a lot on my plate.  I am working on a resources list in addition to other things.  I will try to do a bit more with the list over the weekend.  If worse comes to worse, I can always send out the links to anyone who is interested.


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## Serpenteye (Aug 27, 2004)

The Goblin King said:
			
		

> You play a new AI with an entire city at your command.  The one sticking point I am still milling over is technology sharing.  I had envisioned this to be a much more 'crunchy' game with tech trees spelling out how you proceed with advancing your research.  Allied AIs sharing tech would be able to benefit from it without expending any resources.  Imagine if your Fighter decided to loan the party Wizard access to his Great Cleave feat.  However, short of banning tech sharing I don't see a way around this.




Sounds cool. I love 'crunch, the more the better. 

To solve the balance-issue of a massive alliance of altruistic good-guys sharing tech you could make it rather easy to steal technology and other information by hacking or infiltration. Any technology that is applied on the open market or in the field of battle can easily be copied anyway, and anything that involves mass-production should be rather easy to steal since it's a lot harder to defend a dozen facilities all the time than to burglar one facility for a couple of minutes.


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## Kalanyr (Aug 27, 2004)

*cough* Hmm you mean as opposed to the balance issues of sneak bad-guys sharing tech with built in "We see everything you do"-features ? . *cough*


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## Serpenteye (Aug 28, 2004)

That wouldn't be very sneaky now, would it ?


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## The Goblin King (Aug 28, 2004)

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> Interesting. Inspired by Gurps - Reign of Steel, by chance?




GURPS was my first RPG.  I didn't even pick up a D20 until 3e came along.  I didn't want to make it too much alike.  You don't _have_ to enslave humans, for instance.  If you don't want to.


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## The Goblin King (Aug 28, 2004)

Serpenteye said:
			
		

> To solve the balance-issue of a massive alliance of altruistic good-guys sharing tech you could make it rather easy to steal technology and other information by hacking or infiltration. Any technology that is applied on the open market or in the field of battle can easily be copied anyway, and anything that involves mass-production should be rather easy to steal since it's a lot harder to defend a dozen facilities all the time than to burglar one facility for a couple of minutes.




So, to preserve balance we must ignore balance?   Still, I can't think of a better idea.  I only have a rough outline right now.  I know its not original.  In fact, I'm pretty sure I read something like this before but I can't seem to place my finger on it.  Each nation would have a character sheet.

Strength: This stat would be a measure of your nations military power.
Dexterity: Your industrial manufacturing ability.
Constitution: The overall toughness and redundancy of your systems.
Intelligence: Research and development.
Wisdom: Foreign intelligence and espionage.
Charisma: Dilplomatic skills and public relations with humans.

The skill list is sketchy at this point.  I'm not even sure if skills are really needed.  Feats are also up in the air.  On the one hand they would be neat but I am worried about making things overly complicated.


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## Serpenteye (Aug 29, 2004)

This sounds very cool. I would definately be interested in playing. Perhaps you should start another thread for recruitment? (Just make sure you have the abbreviation IR in the title)


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## The Goblin King (Aug 30, 2004)

The thread is here.


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