# McCain



## Charwoman Gene (Aug 19, 2008)

So, Politics is okay on the front page?

Man, a little money changes everything.


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## Morrus (Aug 19, 2008)

It's D&D related news, not a forum discussion.  I'd post it if Elvis reappeared and said something about D&D, too. And what has money to do with anything?


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## Mark (Aug 19, 2008)

C'mon, Gene.  You're better than this.


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## jaerdaph (Aug 19, 2008)

Charwoman Gene said:


> So, Politics is okay on the front page?
> 
> Man, a little money changes everything.


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## drothgery (Aug 19, 2008)

Morrus said:


> It's D&D related news, not a forum discussion.  I'd post it if Elvis reappeared and said something about D&D, too. And what has money to do with anything?




If McCain says something about D&D, it's news. If some low-level campaign staffer does, it's not. The latter is what actually happened.


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## Morrus (Aug 19, 2008)

drothgery said:


> If McCain says something about D&D, it's news. If some low-level campaign staffer does, it's not. The latter is what actually happened.




Eh, it was a slow news day at that point.  If you don't consider articles to be newsworthy - and someone always will, whatever the article - just ignore it.  It doesn't harm you by its presence, however trivial it may seem.

Someone sent the scoop, I thought it mildy interesting, thought some others might too, so I posted it.  I hope some folks out there find it mildy interesting, too, although I understand that not everybody will.

There's usually plenty of news items I don't find interesting, but I chuck 'em up there in case somebody else does.


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## Charwoman Gene (Aug 19, 2008)

I'm beginning to realize that my ENworld behavior is a solid indicator of my mental health.  I apologize for the trollish nature of the first post.

HOWEVER, I do question the logic of posting such a link with a no-politics rule on the forum.  Your site though, and I'll STOP kidding about the money, I'm as glad as anyone people are donating to support cheapskates like me.


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## Umbran (Aug 19, 2008)

Charwoman Gene said:


> HOWEVER, I do question the logic of posting such a link with a no-politics rule on the forum.




The logic is fairly simple - the news page and the forums aren't the same thing.  The news page is less interactive, and if i recall the stats correctly, the news page has a notably larger readership than the forums.

We have a "no politics" rule on the forums for a very simple reason of practicality - with a large and varied userbase, political discussion strongly tends towards rather nasty arguments.  The rule is there not because we are "above" politics, or concerns of the day, but because it becomes much more difficult to keep the place running smoothly if such discussion is allowed.

The news page does not have this issue, as it cannot devolve into an argument.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Aug 19, 2008)

drothgery said:


> If McCain says something about D&D, it's news. If some low-level campaign staffer does, it's not. The latter is what actually happened.




This is where I have an issue with the story. It is presented as if McCain made the statements about D&D players. He is not being quoted in that article, it is the author Michael Goldfarb's opinion.

I see the news article has been modified to "McCain staffer." I see no indication that Mr. Goldfarb works in any way for Joh McCain. He is only a contributor to johnmccain.com. It would be the equivalent of someone posting their opinion here on ENWorld that all D&D players are losers and then attributing the comment to Eric Noah.

I have no attachments to McCain, but at least be fair when attacking someone's integrity.


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## Darkness (Aug 19, 2008)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I see no indication that Mr. Goldfarb works in any way for Joh McCain.



A quick Google search indicates he's been a Deputy Communications Director of the McCain campaign, whatever that means, since early June.


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## Obryn (Aug 19, 2008)

drothgery said:


> If McCain says something about D&D, it's news. If some low-level campaign staffer does, it's not. The latter is what actually happened.



It's news if a campaign staffer posted it on the official campaign website, which is exactly what happened.  What's more, it's not the first D&D basement-dwelling troglodyte comment the campaign has made in the past few weeks.  (The first time was while talking about political bloggers.)

There's nothing partisan about it.  I'd find it interesting if Obama or one of his staffers called D&D players basement-dwelling nerds, too.

-O


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Aug 19, 2008)

Darkness said:


> A quick Google search indicates he's been a Deputy Communications Director of the McCain campaign, whatever that means, since early June.




I bow to your superior Google-fu. 

I didn't find that under a simple search of his name. Only once I added the phrase Deputy Communications Director did I find links supporting that.

Nevertheless, the news article headline should attribute the article to "Michael Goldfarb" not "McCain Staffer." As the only reason you would use McCain's name is if you are trying to attribute the opinion to McCain himself. A common and effective media tool used to assign beliefs to a person who has not given any indication that they would hold such an opinion.


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## jaerdaph (Aug 19, 2008)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I have no attachments to McCain, but at least be fair when attacking someone's integrity.




That's why I promise to soundly thrash the first person I see in a "John McCain Killed Gary" t-shirt.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Aug 19, 2008)

Obryn said:


> It's news if a campaign staffer posted it on the official campaign website, which is exactly what happened.  What's more, it's not the first D&D basement-dwelling troglodyte comment the campaign has made in the past few weeks.  (The first time was while talking about political bloggers.)




You speak about "the campaign" as if they were a collective hive-mind. Individuals tied to the campaign have their own opinions. Unless McCain himself started using the D&D analogy is his press conferences and debates, I for one would not jump to the assumption that he holds the same opinion with every person on his campaign staff.

As much as I'd love to believe that every politician is a Monty-Pythonesque twit, I know that they are actually intelligent individuals and no matter how much the media tries to tell me that all Republicans and Democrats are one and the same person, I know that their opinions vary and would prefer to give each the benefit of the doubt until the show otherwise.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Aug 19, 2008)

jaerdaph said:


> That's why I promise to soundly thrash the first person I see in a "John McCain Killed Gary" t-shirt.




I think there might have been an "incident" if I had attended GenCon this year and saw some disrespectful moron wearing one of those "4E killed Gary" t-shirts. Pathetic!


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## Obryn (Aug 19, 2008)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> You speak about "the campaign" as if they were a collective hive-mind. Individuals tied to the campaign have their own opinions. Unless McCain himself started using the D&D analogy is his press conferences and debates, I for one would not jump to the assumption that he holds the same opinion with every person on his campaign staff.



No, and I don't think anyone's stating that McCain hates gamers.  The issue isn't what McCain himself thinks or doesn't think; it's about what a member of his staff put on the official campaign website - that, basically, denigrates gamers as pasty nerds, still living in their moms' basements.

I think it's a given that statements from campaign staffers on a campaign's official website are, in part, the candidate's responsibility.  The campaign website is for press releases, not simple blogs; they're the bread and butter that moves politics, shapes opinion, and tries to position the candidate in as favorable a light as possible.

It's insulting any way you cut it.

-O


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## DM_Matt (Aug 20, 2008)

Obryn said:


> It's news if a campaign staffer posted it on the official campaign website, which is exactly what happened.  What's more, it's not the first D&D basement-dwelling troglodyte comment the campaign has made in the past few weeks.  (The first time was while talking about political bloggers.)




FYI, that was Goldfarb too.  He seems to have issues with gamers.


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## blargney the second (Aug 20, 2008)

DM_Matt said:


> FYI, that was Goldfarb too.  He seems to have issues with gamers.




You know what they say about gamophobes...


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## Morrus (Aug 20, 2008)

Just got this email:



			
				Email said:
			
		

> I realize I have run amok of the D&D community, and in fact this is not the first time--though the response has been far more severe in this latest instance.
> 
> I would be grateful if you would direct your readers to my apology which can be seen here:
> http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0808/Goldfarb_keeps_experience_points.html?showall
> ...




At a guess, I'd say they have someone trawling for references to the comment and sending out links to the apology.  I'll stick that link up today when I've woken up.


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## Obryn (Aug 20, 2008)

Morrus said:


> At a guess, I'd say they have someone trawling for references to the comment and sending out links to the apology.  I'll stick that link up today when I've woken up.



According to that link, he apologized August 1st or so - for previous similar comments.

So lemme see if I get this straight.

Step 1: Say something wacky.

Step 2: Apologize for said wackiness.

Step 3: Repeat that same wacky thing, and refer people to the previous apology when there's an uproar.


-O


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## jaerdaph (Aug 20, 2008)

To Goldfarb and the Repugs I can only say, "It's the ECONOMY, half-orc Int 3!"


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## Umbran (Aug 20, 2008)

jaerdaph said:


> To Goldfarb and the Repugs ...





And you thought you could get away with political name calling here for what reason?  

Thread closed.


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