# Crusader Kings III



## Zardnaar (Sep 5, 2020)

Deus Vult!!!

Back in 2012 I bought CK2 more or less on release. Generally a fan of Paradox Interactive and many many hours have gone into CK2, EUIV, HoI2 and Stellaris.

Has anyone bought CK3 yet? I have not but are thinking of getting it soon. I've heard it's more of an RPG with a basic morality system.

Reviews are also good.


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## cbwjm (Sep 5, 2020)

I'm thinking of getting it because I've heard the game play is a little easier to get to grips with compared to CK2. Didn't actually realise it was out yet.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 5, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I'm thinking of getting it because I've heard the game play is a little easier to get to grips with compared to CK2. Didn't actually realise it was out yet.




CK2 was easy enough on release. They changed it so much though you kinda get lost if you're not playing frequently.


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## cbwjm (Sep 5, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> CK2 was easy enough on release. They changed it so much though you kinda get list if you're not playing frequently.



That was me, I didn't play it enough that I was lost. Looking at steam reviews it looks like there is still a lot of that but the UI is apparently better and some of the features around lifestyle sounds interesting. Been so long since I played CK2 I can't even recall if that was an older feature or new.

Actually uninstalled CK2 today thinking that if I'm playing any CK it will be 3.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 5, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> That was me, I didn't play it enough that I was lost. Looking at steam reviews it looks like there is still a lot of that but the UI is apparently better and some of the features around lifestyle sounds interesting. Been so long since I played CK2 I can't even recall if that was an older feature or new.
> 
> Actually uninstalled CK2 today thinking that if I'm playing any CK it will be 3.




 I bought mist of the DLC late and for cheap so missed a lot. 

Haven't played much as Republics, Vikings, India or Islam.


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## cbwjm (Sep 6, 2020)

Welp, I bought it. Let's see if i can do better with this one rather than previous grand strategy games.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 6, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Welp, I bought it. Let's see if i can do better with this one rather than previous grand strategy games.




Nice. I started a CK II game as the Duke of aquitaine in 10th century.
Got sick, ended up as eunuch with only a single heir so went to elective monarchy and aquired some lands to make a nephew and  and cousin counts to expand the bloodline.

Meh ruler and queens available but a nephew or something ended up inheriting as I didn't get my preferred heir.

Gonna try and seize Egypt in a crusade or inherit France. Or maybe use factions.


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## cbwjm (Sep 7, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Nice. I started a CK II game as the Duke of aquitaine in 10th century.
> Got sick, ended up as eunuch with only a single heir so went to elective monarchy and aquired some lands to make a nephew and and cousin counts to expand the bloodline.
> 
> Meh ruler and queens available but a nephew or something ended up inheriting as I didn't get my preferred heir.
> ...



Still no idea what I'm doing (well I guess some idea). Started a game as Sigurd and formed a duchy just before I died to see my realm split up between my two sons. Naturally, my heir was the worst of the two. Time to murder my half brother and claim his realm i guess.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 7, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Still no idea what I'm doing (well I guess some idea). Started a game as Sigurd and formed a duchy just before I died to see my realm split up between my two sons. Naturally, my heir was the worst of the two. Time to murder my half brother and claim his realm i guess.




That's your succession law, it will be some type of gavelkind. Basically your heirs split the realm between them.


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## cbwjm (Sep 7, 2020)

I will definitely be looking to change that. I just need to find out how. The UI seems easier to get around but so much seems to be happening. It wasn't until the game pointed it out that I realised there were buttons to look at the culture map and the religion map. I'd been playing for quite some time too.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 7, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I will definitely be looking to change that. I just need to find out how. The UI seems easier to get around but so much seems to be happening. It wasn't until the game pointed it out that I realised there were buttons to look at the culture map and the religion map. I'd been playing for quite some time too.




I'm going off CKII here idk how to change succession law in III. 

Messed up my game, french Duke, Kings a heretic and the first crusade was called on France. I had enough piety to change the target but Egypt wasn't an option. Thought I joined the crusade but looks like I defended my liege by mistake. 

 I went to elective monarchy in the 10th century which seems a lot harder to get what you want than it used to be.


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## cbwjm (Sep 7, 2020)

I formed a kingdom. I guess that's good? It did let me change the rules of succession to Scandinavian elective so I hope my small kingdom won't be carved up when I die.

Seems a large part of this game is essentially me going "There I go, getting all stressed again."


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## Zardnaar (Sep 7, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I formed a kingdom. I guess that's good? It did let me change the rules of succession to Scandinavian elective so I hope my small kingdom won't be carved up when I die.
> 
> Seems a large part of this game is essentially me going "There I go, getting all stressed again."




Haven't played but stress afaik is caused by playing against type.

Eg if you are cruel and don't pick cruel option you get stress. Get enough stress you need to relieve it in some way eg drinking.

Not sure what the effects of forming a kingdom are in CK3. In CK2 it's more prestige, dukes are your vassals and you get claims etc in your area.

Good thing about CK is it's hard to actually get wiped out. Emperor might end up a duke or count but you can usually hang onto your core. 

 Exceptions being Mongols, holy wars, Aztecs via sunset invasion.,


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## cbwjm (Sep 8, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Haven't played but stress afaik is caused by playing against type.
> 
> Eg if you are cruel and don't pick cruel option you get stress. Get enough stress you need to relieve it in some way eg drinking.
> 
> ...



Stress is definitely playing against type, but sometimes the traits for your child that you can choose are really good. I found the various decisions that I can make to relieve stress, things like going on a hunt (did nothing for my previous king since he was lazy) or throwing a feast.

I think I'm slowly getting to grips with the game, still a lot to unpack but the good thing is that they tell you the issues. Things like too many duchies so hand some over to others, etc.

My heir inherited the kingdom and now only controls the kingdom. I feel like I should have granted him a duchy as well so that he ends up with both. I've been conquering and converting people to my way of life/religion, turns out that Iceland is all norse but also all catholic so there are a few conflicts there that I'm trying to sort out. 

I'm actually thinking of trying to start a holy war, there are some sacred sites in europe that are controlled by other people that I might see if I can take back.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 8, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Stress is definitely playing against type, but sometimes the traits for your child that you can choose are really good. I found the various decisions that I can make to relieve stress, things like going on a hunt (did nothing for my previous king since he was lazy) or throwing a feast.
> 
> I think I'm slowly getting to grips with the game, still a lot to unpack but the good thing is that they tell you the issues. Things like too many duchies so hand some over to others, etc.
> 
> ...




Not sure how it's changed with CK2 but holy wars can bite you on the ass. 

You might end up fighting most of that religions rulers.


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## cbwjm (Sep 8, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Not sure how it's changed with CK2 but holy wars can bite you on the ass.
> 
> You might end up fighting most of that religions rulers.



Good to know, maybe I'll wait on that, build up my kingdom a bit more. I'm wanting to conquer Denmark, really messed that one up earlier and went to war for a single county instead of the country. Afterwards, during the war I was like "Why, why did I select that, the option to take Denmark was right there!"


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## Zardnaar (Sep 8, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Good to know, maybe I'll wait on that, build up my kingdom a bit more. I'm wanting to conquer Denmark, really messed that one up earlier and went to war for a single county instead of the country. Afterwards, during the war I was like "Why, why did I select that, the option to take Denmark was right there!"




Do they still have cities, temple, castles etc on the provinces?

If you develop your lands right a powerful Duke is richer/more powerful than monarchs espicially if you swing the other duchy's to support you.


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## cbwjm (Sep 8, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Do they still have cities, temple, castles etc on the provinces?
> 
> If you develop your lands right a powerful Duke is richer/more powerful than monarchs espicially if you swing the other duchy's to support you.



Each county has holdings that you can build like in CK2, though I was in the early ages in Norse regions and didn't seem to be able to build any others though I could develop my initial holdings, I might try starting in the UK and see if i can build things up there.


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## cbwjm (Sep 8, 2020)

Oh, I also took over Denmark, had everything lined up so that my son would inherit both kingdoms, then he died, my court physician accidentally killed him.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 8, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Oh, I also took over Denmark, had everything lined up so that my son would inherit both kingdoms, then he died, my court physician accidentally killed him.




Sometimes it's not an accident. I don't employ ones with negative traits no matter how high their skill is in CK2.

Having intergenerational plans fall apart happens a lot. I've gone from count to emperor in 1 generation but never been able to repeat it.

 I'm crap at internal politics, easier to ally foreign powers and over throw your liege that way.


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## cbwjm (Sep 8, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Sometimes it's not an accident. I don't employ ones with negative traits no matter how high their skill is in CK2.
> 
> Having intergenerational plans fall apart happens a lot. I've gone from count to emperor in 1 generation but never been able to repeat it.
> 
> I'm crap at internal politics, easier to ally foreign powers and over throw your liege that way.



I think in this case it was an accident. My son was leading troops in battle, I probably should have forbid him from being a champion but that isn't the viking way.

There is still so much to learn, It was a while before I figured out how to change succession rules for my realm which doesn't seem to affect succession rules for lower titles. I also seem to be able to adjust feudal requirements with my subjects, possibly only the ones I recently conquered only did it for one. 

You can get hooks on people to blackmail them or call in a favour, that can help with elections to get your son in the seat of power, but I always end up getting hooks for people who have no bearing on the election. I rarely scheme (other than trying to murder my brother to inherit his duchy) so haven't managed to blackmail people into joining me in plots.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 8, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I think in this case it was an accident. My son was leading troops in battle, I probably should have forbid him from being a champion but that isn't the viking way.
> 
> There is still so much to learn, It was a while before I figured out how to change succession rules for my realm which doesn't seem to affect succession rules for lower titles. I also seem to be able to adjust feudal requirements with my subjects, possibly only the ones I recently conquered only did it for one.
> 
> You can get hooks on people to blackmail them or call in a favour, that can help with elections to get your son in the seat of power, but I always end up getting hooks for people who have no bearing on the election. I rarely scheme (other than trying to murder my brother to inherit his duchy) so haven't managed to blackmail people into joining me in plots.




I suck at scheming because they wasn't playing at the time they added it.


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## cbwjm (Sep 9, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> I suck at scheming because they wasn't playing at the time they added it.



So I started a game as a count in the top of Scotland, essentially the lowest title I could get. 

You can choose a lifestyle related to the 5 stats and gain perks after earning xp. One in the stewardship tree is meritocracy that lets you start a scheme to take your liege's title. I did it twice, once to gain a duchy and another (while playing as my heir) to gain a kingdom. The first time I only had a 50/50 chance, the second time the former king just gave up, i think he was in the middle of a war and I had more holdings than him, I may also have had some dread built up, not really sure why, but I got the kingdom.

I'm going to continue to conquer the realms and see if i can take the UK.

I also took part in a disastrous holy war for Jerusalem started by the pope. The sheer numbers of soldiers we had to fight against ensured the failure of the war.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 9, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> So I started a game as a count in the top of Scotland, essentially the lowest title I could get.
> 
> You can choose a lifestyle related to the 5 stats and gain perks after earning xp. One in the stewardship tree is meritocracy that lets you start a scheme to take your liege's title. I did it twice, once to gain a duchy and another (while playing as my heir) to gain a kingdom. The first time I only had a 50/50 chance, the second time the former king just gave up, i think he was in the middle of a war and I had more holdings than him, I may also have had some dread built up, not really sure why, but I got the kingdom.
> 
> ...




 Crusades used to be hard in CK2, fairly easy now. 

 Spent way to much time becoming King of Ireland into UK. 

Crusades can be a very quick way to go count into emperor. Sometimes the AI would attach to your army and you could use a stack of them and recruit Templars and win a crusade as a count. Instant King.

 Played as the hapsburgs once, start as a count crusade was called into Hungary of all places. Hapsburgs countinto Hungary into Empire of Carpathia and smacking down the Mongol horde. Fun game but massive lucksack. 

France ruling from Flanders was very good.


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## fba827 (Sep 9, 2020)

I bought the game when it released.
I’m too overwhelmed. I don’t understand it.   I tried the tutorial and maybe I’m being dense but it’ll tell me to do something and I have no idea how I’m supposed to do what it tells me.  I will try it again in a couple weeks with fresh eyes.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 9, 2020)

fba827 said:


> I bought the game when it released.
> I’m too overwhelmed. I don’t understand it.   I tried the tutorial and maybe I’m being dense but it’ll tell me to do something and I have no idea how I’m supposed to do what it tells me.  I will try it again in a couple weeks with fresh eyes.




 Not a surprise, took me a while on CK2 to figure it out and I was used to playing EUIII and HoI2.

 Doesn't  really matter if your a count it duke for a century while you pick up the basics like marriage. 

 Do they still use Ireland as the tutorial and what's the start date?


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## cbwjm (Sep 9, 2020)

fba827 said:


> I bought the game when it released.
> I’m too overwhelmed. I don’t understand it.   I tried the tutorial and maybe I’m being dense but it’ll tell me to do something and I have no idea how I’m supposed to do what it tells me.  I will try it again in a couple weeks with fresh eyes.



Sleep on it, I've found that I'm getting better at it the more I play. Even though I'm doing well in my current game, there are still things I'm not too sure about. Like why, as a king, can I not call my vassals for aid, or are they already aiding me which is why I have a larger army than last time. There are a lot of menus you need to go through, sometimes the tool tips are helpful, other times they don't explain things enough.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 9, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Sleep on it, I've found that I'm getting better at it the more I play. Even though I'm doing well in my current game, there are still things I'm not too sure about. Like why, as a king, can I not call my vassals for aid, or are they already aiding me which is why I have a larger army than last time. There are a lot of menus you need to go through, sometimes the tool tips are helpful, other times they don't explain things enough.





 Vassal management is a thing. Gotta keep them happy. 

 You can overthrow your duke, your counts can do it to you.


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## cbwjm (Sep 9, 2020)

I've found my main problem with this game is time. At 10pm I'll start thinking about wrapping up the game and heading to bed and then suddenly it's midnight and I realise I've spent far too much time sorting out my realm and ensuring my duchies are granted to the right vassals (who end up being old with so children so I end getting my duchies back again). It's all quite a lot to manage and though I'm enjoying being a king and expanding my realm, part of me wishes for the simplicity of being a count with a single county to look after (the other part of me has the Ambitious trait).


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## cbwjm (Sep 9, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Vassal management is a thing. Gotta keep them happy.
> 
> You can overthrow your duke, your counts can do it to you.



I only wish that my powerful vassals had good stats, too many of them demand a seat on the council while having no stat 10 or above except learning which affects the priest's stats that I have no control over anyway.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 9, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I only wish that my powerful vassals had good stats, too many of them demand a seat on the council while having no stat 10 or above except learning which affects the priest's stats that I have no control over anyway.




 Part of vassal management means no powerful vassals. 

 Basically keep your dukes weak. Counts don't tend to be major problems.


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## cbwjm (Sep 10, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Part of vassal management means no powerful vassals.
> 
> Basically keep your dukes weak. Counts don't tend to be major problems.



I think I need to figure out how to weaken them. I'm not sure how to really knock them down a peg.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 10, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I think I need to figure out how to weaken them. I'm not sure how to really knock them down a peg.




 Not sure how it works in CKIII. A title is just a title, land matters. 

 This means that you don't want your dukes to have to much land, you want lots of counts ruled by a duke. 

 You can ally the loyal/friend dukes via marriages etc. 

 Some vassals just going to hate your guts due to traits or things like ambitious. Merchant republic vassals also don't like you much. They may have changed that idk. 

 Get claims on their lands and provoke them into rebellion. Once you win revoke the titles and take the land yourself or give it to more loyal vassals. Or they might have a nicer heir so yeah olde execution might be doable. 

 Having to many titles may also be a problem. IDK if that's carried through to CK3 but in 2 you any more than two duke titles caused problems. 

 CK2 got called medival breeding simulator where you try to get positive genetic traits and educate your heirs in positive lifestyle traits. 

 A highly charismatic/attractive ruler had a comparatively easy rule vs vassals. 

 A high intrigue one can erm get rid of troublesome vassals.


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## cbwjm (Sep 10, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Not sure how it works in CKIII. A title is just a title, land matters.
> 
> This means that you don't want your dukes to have to much land, you want lots of counts ruled by a duke.
> 
> ...



Okay, i might be working it out okay then, I've been making new vassals rather than granting additional titles to my current ones. I might need to check their number of counties and see if I'm giving to many counties to them which bumps up their power too much. When granting duchies, they have to have a county to rule as well, I'm trying to limit it to 1 county per duchy so they don't get too big. Others dukes I think I inherited when I became king so they already had a lot of power.

While I was still a duke of a single duchy, I helped the king in a war. Must have done a good job since he made a whole host of his vassals mine. It was a little crazy when that war ended, i gained an incredible amount of power which I think also helped set me up for taking over the kingdom.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 10, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Okay, i might be working it out okay then, I've been making new vassals rather than granting additional titles to my current ones. I might need to check their number of counties and see if I'm giving to many counties to them which bumps up their power too much. When granting duchies, they have to have a county to rule as well, I'm trying to limit it to 1 county per duchy so they don't get too big. Others dukes I think I inherited when I became king so they already had a lot of power.
> 
> While I was still a duke of a single duchy, I helped the king in a war. Must have done a good job since he made a whole host of his vassals mine. It was a little crazy when that war ended, i gained an incredible amount of power which I think also helped set me up for taking over the kingdom.




 Paradox fine tradition of AI stupidity. 

 I've roleplayed the loyal duke before, basically two adjacent duchy's with a well developed personal demesne. 

 Spread via marriage only no assassination or conquest. I think my personal domain was more powerful than the rest of the realm put togather. 

 Not sure if you can play a merchant republic in CK3. Venetian Doge can tell the Byzantine Emperor, Pope, Caliph and the Mongols to kiss his heiny and tell him it smells great and they'll do it.

A powerful Duke can tell the King to get bent.


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## cbwjm (Sep 10, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Paradox fine tradition of AI stupidity.
> 
> I've roleplayed the loyal duke before, basically two adjacent duchy's with a well developed personal demesne.
> 
> ...



That's actually something that the game warned me about when I tried to tell the former king (now Duke) to stop something, it said he'd likely ask something in return. This is because he's still powerful and he really didn't like me (can't imagine why...). In the end I kept him fighting the war between my vassals because it was weakening someone else that I was about to invade so it worked out well.

Edit: I've no idea if you can play as a merchant currently. Wasn't that a dlc in CK2?


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## Zardnaar (Sep 10, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> That's actually something that the game warned me about when I tried to tell the former king (now Duke) to stop something, it said he'd likely ask something in return. This is because he's still powerful and he really didn't like me (can't imagine why...). In the end I kept him fighting the war between my vassals because it was weakening someone else that I was about to invade so it worked out well.
> 
> Edit: I've no idea if you can play as a merchant currently. Wasn't that a dlc in CK2?




 Yes I was DLC in CK2. I didn't play to much after EUIV and Stellaris landed so everything after the Old God's and the changes made in not the best at. 

 I own the DLC, never played in India, as a horse lord and I'm quite bad now playing as Muslim or Viking ruler.

 I know the basics of playing as a republic but I can't cheese it like some can. 

 It's funny being able to recruit 40000 men our of one province plus mercs. 

 Power of Venice.

 Feudal lord ruling in Flanders and Normandy was good, London, Copenhagen,   southern France and Italy also good locations.


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## cbwjm (Sep 10, 2020)

I've been playing this game so much that it is starting to haunt my dreams.

Yesterday, I lost my first duchy (and the county I started in) to Sweden. Had two disastrous wars before I managed to get it back. Also it turns out that at some point someone had gained independence in my realm. I subjugated them and suddenly became king of Novgorod as well as gaining a handful of vassals scattered throughout Europe. My hold on Novgorod is tenuous and I doubt I will be able to hold onto it, when I die the kingdom will go to another due to everyone thinking my good Christian boy is a dirty heathen.

After conquering Iceland, I then started a war with Sweden again to regain my former territory, I think I only succeeded because someone else was at war with them and when they won, I was then at war with them and they were too weak to stop me from taking things back. I'm hoping to conquer the rest of the UK tonight.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 10, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I've been playing this game so much that it is starting to haunt my dreams.
> 
> Yesterday, I lost my first duchy (and the county I started in) to Sweden. Had two disastrous wars before I managed to get it back. Also it turns out that at some point someone had gained independence in my realm. I subjugated them and suddenly became king of Novgorod as well as gaining a handful of vassals scattered throughout Europe. My hold on Novgorod is tenuous and I doubt I will be able to hold onto it, when I die the kingdom will go to another due to everyone thinking my good Christian boy is a dirty heathen.
> 
> After conquering Iceland, I then started a war with Sweden again to regain my former territory, I think I only succeeded because someone else was at war with them and when they won, I was then at war with them and they were too weak to stop me from taking things back. I'm hoping to conquer the rest of the UK tonight.




See it's addictive. You don't have the one more turn effect it's the one more hour effect. 

 CK also is easy to pick up, hard to master so it's been the most approachable of the Paradox games. 

There's no win condition I've gone from emperor down to duke then count as the new king revoked my titles. 

 I still won the game with a massive score as my bloodline ruled most of Europe. 

 All those not heirs married off and failed matrilineal marriages to counts and dukes eventually some if them independently rose to power in places like Russia and Scandinavia. 

The fragmentation of the Empire if Britannia just created a heap of smaller kingdoms of my bloodline from Ireland to Spain, Morocco, Egypt, eastern Europe. 

 Si yeah you can blob but you can still rack up a large score via your bloodline. Just marry your son's off to lonely countesses and duchesses. 

 Not sure how CK3 deals with your daughters but in CK2 you just invited male heirs to your court and married them off matrilineal to your daughters.

Just one more hour. 

 I've barely played anything else in the last decade due to Paradox Interactive thanks to CK2, EUIV and Stellaris.

 Just checked steam way to many hours combined. CK2 only a thousand hours.


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## cbwjm (Sep 11, 2020)

I'll need to look into specific domains for sons to marry my daughters to, normally I just use the filters, I think you can quickly narrow it down to who will accept a matrilineal marriage. I haven't been targeting different rulers, though that might also explain some of the territory I've gained. A lot of next in line to inherit places.

I'm going to browse through the CK3 subreddit, see if I can glean any useful info, definitely getting to grips with the basics of the game but still sounds like there are a lot of smaller specific things that need to be learnt.

1000 hours, I can see me reaching that in CK3 but probably only around a day of playing so far.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 11, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I'll need to look into specific domains for sons to marry my daughters to, normally I just use the filters, I think you can quickly narrow it down to who will accept a matrilineal marriage. I haven't been targeting different rulers, though that might also explain some of the territory I've gained. A lot of next in line to inherit places.
> 
> I'm going to browse through the CK3 subreddit, see if I can glean any useful info, definitely getting to grips with the basics of the game but still sounds like there are a lot of smaller specific things that need to be learnt.
> 
> 1000 hours, I can see me reaching that in CK3 but probably only around a day of playing so far.




 Well if you like it a lot and they do some good DLC you're almost good for a decade. 

 I started on Paradox games back in 2009. 

 CK has RPG elements and it's a very unique game. Throw in D&D mods and Game if Thrones mids and yeah it's a great deal. 

 Reception of CK3 seems really positive as well but it's the crown jewel in the Paradox collection. 

 It was CK2 that broke through to the mainstream.


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## Moon_Goddess (Sep 11, 2020)

Well, picked this up, I've already poor tons of money into Cities:Skylines and Stellaris DLC might as well add this.   The game won me over when I found out there's a game rule setting for inverted gender equality, and a setting to force all religions to accept same sex relationships.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 11, 2020)

Moon_Goddess said:


> Well, picked this up, I've already poor tons of money into Cities:Skylines and Stellaris DLC might as well add this.   The game won me over when I found out there's a game rule setting for inverted gender equality, and a setting to force all religions to accept same sex relationships.




 Yeah that's new. There's 3 things you can do. 

1. Historical settings. 
2. Equality setting.
3. Inverted, basically matriarchial. 

 CK2 got a bad rap because you couldn't but ironically queens were better than Kings and you could overhaul the laws in game anyway. Basques could do the gender equality thing at game start. 

 There was ine exploit you could do as a republic though as you couldn't have a female doge. Basically you breed up a heap of bastards and legitimize the one you want. The females get trained as high intrigue and prune the males out to get the heir you want. Black widow brigade. 

 Careful of invitations to exploding cow dung bombs in inns. Unless you want to bump off your current ruler.

 I'm not sure how many trucks carry through to CK3 might have to get it this weekend.


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## dragoner (Sep 11, 2020)

This story about CK3 keeps popping up, funny - This Crusader Kings 3 player ate the Pope


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## Moon_Goddess (Sep 11, 2020)

That's a good one, I'd eat the pope but I don't wanna go full cannibal.

My game I'm enjoying that everyone seems to hate the pope (who was already pop when the game started) and the reason is "Catholicism prefers a female head of faith"


It was kinda curious to me that setting same sex relationships to being accepted disabled achievements, also setting gender equality disabled them but setting it inverted (matriarchal) does not.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 11, 2020)

dragoner said:


> This story about CK3 keeps popping up, funny - This Crusader Kings 3 player ate the Pope




 Lol I've seduced the pope before (male and female), haven't eaten him though


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## Zardnaar (Sep 11, 2020)

Moon_Goddess said:


> That's a good one, I'd eat the pope but I don't wanna go full cannibal.
> 
> My game I'm enjoying that everyone seems to hate the pope (who was already pop when the game started) and the reason is "Catholicism prefers a female head of faith"
> 
> ...




 That's quite funny. I think you can kind of design your own religion. Naked seems popular on Reddit. 

 Lmk if anyone marries  your horse, appoints one as heir or a councillor. 

 Wonder if Satanism is in the base game?

 If you're new to CK welcome to the glorious insanity.


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## Moon_Goddess (Sep 11, 2020)

Yes I'm very new to CK... however I play a ton of Rimworld, so I guess my quest will be to turn the pope into a hat.


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## pukunui (Sep 12, 2020)

This game sounds intriguing but I don’t think I have time ...


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## Zardnaar (Sep 12, 2020)

pukunui said:


> This game sounds intriguing but I don’t think I have time ...




 It just requires your soul. 

 It's the only game you'll need for the next decade or so.


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## cbwjm (Sep 12, 2020)

pukunui said:


> This game sounds intriguing but I don’t think I have time ...



If you have loved ones, people who care about you, then maybe give it a miss. Once you get into it, it becomes the only thing there is. I've spent hours just trying to regain lost progress or manipulate things so that my heirs inherit. I lost the Kingdom of Novgorod to a vassal who then was no longer my vassal since we were both kings. Took a bunch of territory he control in the UK from me, luckily my wife was next in line to inherit his estates so one murder scheme later, she inherited and then offered to be come my vassal and my realm was restored. Seriously though, the rights of inheritance can be crazy, the earl of Munster seemingly now has half of the UK who owing fealty to him. It's a bit worrying.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 12, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> If you have loved ones, people who care about you, then maybe give it a miss. Once you get into it, it becomes the only thing there is. I've spent hours just trying to regain lost progress or manipulate things so that my heirs inherit. I lost the Kingdom of Novgorod to a vassal who then was no longer my vassal since we were both kings. Took a bunch of territory he control in the UK from me, luckily my wife was next in line to inherit his estates so one murder scheme later, she inherited and then offered to be come my vassal and my realm was restored. Seriously though, the rights of inheritance can be crazy, the earl of Munster seemingly now has half of the UK who owing fealty to him. It's a bit worrying.




 Lol I crawled into bed at 3am the other day and got up at 6. 

 And that's CK2 giving it a send-off. 

 Duke of Flanders. Was trying to get my son to inherit Picardy and my grandson to inherit Normandy. 

 Then the king of Francis died, killed in battle I think. Aquitaine fell to the Muslims and gavelkind succession split the realm in 3. And one of my counties joined the HRE.


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## pukunui (Sep 12, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> If you have loved ones, people who care about you, then maybe give it a miss.



LOL I do indeed!


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## Zardnaar (Sep 12, 2020)

pukunui said:


> LOL I do indeed!





 
 Derp.


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## pukunui (Sep 12, 2020)

I’m more worried that it would eat up all my D&D prep time rather than my family time.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 12, 2020)

pukunui said:


> I’m more worried that it would eat up all my D&D prep time rather than my family time.




  Prepare less. My D&D prep time has plummeted last decade.

 No pressure.


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## cbwjm (Sep 13, 2020)

Today was quite fun, I watched my friend play through steam as the earl of Munster, gave him some tips since he's started a bit later than me. Was fun watching and talking about the game. Then in the afternoon, I started a new ironman game in a county in Norway and managed to become king of Norway before he had to log off. It was more fun than playing single player since you can have a conversation at the same time.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 13, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Today was quite fun, I watched my friend play through steam as the earl of Munster, gave him some tips since he's started a bit later than me. Was fun watching and talking about the game. Then in the afternoon, I started a new ironman game in a county in Norway and managed to become king of Norway before he had to log off. It was more fun than playing single player since you can have a conversation at the same time.





 Doing well playing ironman this early in your paradox initiation.


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## cbwjm (Sep 14, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Doing well playing ironman this early in your paradox initiation.



Yeah, I seem to do okay, managed to hold an empire together and figured I may as well try ironman to see what achievements I can get. I didn't change much in the way of settings so it is probably still only normal.

Talking with my friend has brought to light some new menus that I never really looked at, an important one is succession which let me know that I needed to form the kingdom of Lappland and then get my preferred son voted in, otherwise it would split off from my realm and be granted to another son which I didn't want. Cool thing is, people were voting another one of my sons in as king of Lappland and when I checked him out, he was way better than my currently selected heir so I switched to him as king of Norway as well. 

This is my current realm of norway, got most of it in a single lifetime, my successor has added in the the land in the top right through a war of subjugation and has begun to add Novgorod, though I'm thinking of taking Denmark next. Sweden is my ally so I haven't moved against them yet. Hoping to have a Scandinavian empire.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 14, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Yeah, I seem to do okay, managed to hold an empire together and figured I may as well try ironman to see what achievements I can get. I didn't change much in the way of settings so it is probably still only normal.
> 
> Talking with my friend has brought to light some new menus that I never really looked at, an important one is succession which let me know that I needed to form the kingdom of Lappland and then get my preferred son voted in, otherwise it would split off from my realm and be granted to another son which I didn't want. Cool thing is, people were voting another one of my sons in as king of Lappland and when I checked him out, he was way better than my currently selected heir so I switched to him as king of Norway as well.
> 
> ...




 Nice always fun playing in that area across numerous Paradox titles. 

Gonna try and inherit Sweden? 

 Denmark's often a nice area to get. Not as good as Brussels, Egypt, Constantinople but comparable to say London.

This guy usually does interesting paradox videos. 

 Count Guide.

 Might have to try the African Queen matriarchal empire with historical settings.


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## cbwjm (Sep 14, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Nice always fun playing in that area across numerous Paradox titles.
> 
> Gonna try and inherit Sweden?
> 
> ...




Ive been checking the succession for Sweden but I'm not very good at arranging succession in other realms to suit me, normally it happens accidentally. I think i need a whole other mindset for it. I'm thinking of going down the intrigue skill trees and seeing what I can do with them. I'll probably just subjugate them at a later date.

I'll check out his video. Quill18 has some interesting ones, some others are about that have helped me understand the rules of succession. I think that's what I've always had issues with.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 14, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Ive been checking the succession for Sweden but I'm not very good at arranging succession in other realms to suit me, normally it happens accidentally. I think i need a whole other mindset for it. I'm thinking of going down the intrigue skill trees and seeing what I can do with them. I'll probably just subjugate them at a later date.
> 
> I'll check out his video. Quill18 has some interesting ones, some others are about that have helped me understand the rules of succession. I think that's what I've always had issues with.




 I'm not particularly good at forcing succession either. Short of marrying a lady with no brothers. 

 They made it harder in CK2.


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## cbwjm (Sep 14, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Nice always fun playing in that area across numerous Paradox titles.
> 
> Gonna try and inherit Sweden?
> 
> ...



I started as #10 in that list.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 14, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I started as #10 in that list.




 I did wonder that as I didn't dig back through the thread.


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## Istbor (Sep 14, 2020)

Some cohorts and I are attempting to unify the Iberian peninsula. Pretty big battles with the Moors. And Navarre kept taking land as well, but were backed by the Byzantine Empress so we didn't really want to force that issue. Luckily they converted to Islam and Byzantium dropped them like a bad habit.

Got Holy Warrior out of it for my character's son once we washed over the Navarre lands.  Taking a long time to convert their culture and religion back to what the rest of our lands are. Progress none-the-less.


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## cbwjm (Sep 14, 2020)

Istbor said:


> Some cohorts and I are attempting to unify the Iberian peninsula. Pretty big battles with the Moors. And Navarre kept taking land as well, but were back by the Byzantine Empress so we didn't really want to force that issue. Luckily they converted to Islam and Byzantium dropped them like a bad habit.
> 
> Got Holy Warrior out of it for my son once we washed over the Navarre lands. Taking a long time to convert their culture and religion back to what the rest of our lands are. Progress non-the-less.



Nice. Converting everyone does take a while, taking long enough converting everyone in Scandinavia to the Asatru faith.

I've finally managed to conquer Scandinavia which also won me the kingdom of Ireland. Soon I shall form an empire. Not sure what's best after that, I'll have 5 kingdoms and I'm wondering if I should parcel them out to my sons while keeping the empire and kingdom of Norway as part of my titles.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 14, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Nice. Converting everyone does take a while, taking long enough converting everyone in Scandinavia to the Asatru faith.
> 
> I've finally managed to conquer Scandinavia which also won me the kingdom of Ireland. Soon I shall form an empire. Not sure what's best after that, I'll have 5 kingdoms and I'm wondering if I should parcel them out to my sons while keeping the empire and kingdom of Norway as part of my titles.




 Do you need to get the required lands in XYZ area to form an empire or can you still form an empire just by blobbing?

 Creating kings as an empire makes it easier for vassal management but idk if they've changed the mechanics of making vassals easier to manage. 

 I would probably keep the titles to the core of your empire and have sub rulers in overseas territory, Kings of your bloodline though. 


 If things go pear shaped the independent kings will still be your bloodline. Still counts iirc.


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## cbwjm (Sep 14, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Do you need to get the required lands in XYZ area to form an empire or can you still form an empire just by blobbing?
> 
> Creating kings as an empire makes it easier for vassal management but idk if they've changed the mechanics of making vassals easier to manage.
> 
> ...



I'm not 100% on what lands you need, I'll have to have another look at the option in the decisions panel, it ticks off a number of requirements and I'm not sure if it is just X number of kingdoms under your control or if they have to be mostly of a single empire, the only two times I've been able to form an empire I've had the kingdoms of Brittania and Scandinavia.

It probably will make things easier to manage them now that you mention it. As my empire grows, I'm king of various kingdoms and a multitude of powerful vassals are constantly being added to my empire. If they become the vassals of my sons in their own kingdoms, then they become someone else's problem.

I'll be keeping at least the kingdom of Norway as my title, maybe also Sweden. There is a title where you can become king of kings but it requires 10 people in your dynasty holding a kingdom, I think this is going to be how to do it.

I'm also wondering about the benefits of making a cadet branch of my dynasty. My current ruler isn't the dynasty head, that title goes to my older brother.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 14, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I'm not 100% on what lands you need, I'll have to have another look at the option in the decisions panel, it ticks off a number of requirements and I'm not sure if it is just X number of kingdoms under your control or if they have to be mostly of a single empire, the only two times I've been able to form an empire I've had the kingdoms of Brittania and Scandinavia.
> 
> It probably will make things easier to manage them now that you mention it. As my empire grows, I'm king of various kingdoms and a multitude of powerful vassals are constantly being added to my empire. If they become the vassals of my sons in their own kingdoms, then they become someone else's problem.
> 
> ...





 Cadet branches still add to your score at game end at least CK2. 

 I racked up a massive score once despite having a small realm because my bloodline was on the thrones of half the map.

 Core realm was Brittania but they ruled Empire of Hispania, France, Crusader States and parts of Scandinavia and Eastern Europe. 

  Some of it was deliberate but most of it was just marrying younger members off to lonely Countesses and Duchess and over the years they rose to prominence in those realms. 

 Also managed to do it with daughters but had to get foreign heirs into my court and matrilineal marry them to the females. 

 You could also carve duchies out of foreign realms so you can nibble the HRE to death one duchy at a time.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 15, 2020)

Lol the North Korea strategy.


 Basically you skip the feudalism part of the game. One ruler no vassals.


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## cbwjm (Sep 15, 2020)

Zardnaar said:


> Lol the North Korea strategy.
> 
> 
> Basically you skip the feudalism part of the game. One ruler no vassals.



Haha, interesting way to play the game, I wouldn't have even thought to do this.

I've been looking through videos that are all "10 things I wish I knew when I started". I now know that the reason I gained a heap of vassals when I became Duke was because they were my de jure vassals, so the king gave them to me to reduce strife in the kingdom thus paving the way for me to overthrow him.


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## cbwjm (Sep 16, 2020)

Apparently the best physicians lock you in your room after breaking a pot of angry bees there with you.

As an emperor, I'm finding it hard keeping on top of everything. I'm also not the dynasty head which has crippled me a bit since I can't modify my dynasty boons nor can I use various decisions that require being the dynasty head.


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## Zardnaar (Sep 16, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> Apparently the best physicians lock you in your room after breaking a pot of angry bees there with you.
> 
> As an emperor, I'm finding it hard keeping on top of everything. I'm also not the dynasty head which has crippled me a bit since I can't modify my dynasty boons nor can I use various decisions that require being the dynasty head.




 Yeah the random health treatments can kill you. 

 Generally avoid the experimental stuff unless you have something terminal or want to bump your ruler off.


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## Istbor (Sep 16, 2020)

That awkward moment in CK III where you are totally paying attention to a Crusade and once the intense battling is over, you realize your character had been courting his own mother...

It has gotten bad in our multiplayer campaign. We can't have any marital alliances for a generation or two, just too much, uh... keeping the bloodlines pure.

The good news is I married my sister off to the Populist Uprising in Burgundy and they won. I now have a queen of Burgundy and once the King dies, the Kingdom itself. At least for my household.


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## cbwjm (Sep 16, 2020)

I had crazy times last night. My newly ascended emperor was murdered at the age of 34 right after starting a war for Mercia.

My heir (not my choice of heir, I hadn't even had time to get people on my side) took over but was already embroiled in various wars and all of my kings and dukes decided that they wanted less crown authority and started a war against me. I lost, but in that time, I executed all of the prisoners I captured, becoming a kinslayer since most were of my dynasty. I then reformed the religion, hit stress level three after going against my traits, and abdicated the throne. Now my eldest, and hopefully best, son has taken control of the empire.


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## fba827 (Oct 1, 2020)

So I came back to this game after several weeks ( I got it when it came out but was I just wasn’t able to do what the tutorial was telling me - ie it told me to select something and no matter how much I clicked nothing actually happened.  Plus just lots of information when I tried without tutorial).

anyway I figured out what I was doing wrong on the clicking ( I was clicking on portrait, not name, as I thought the entire line entry was one item to select).

im still trying to figure out doing wars. But aside from that as long as I keep diplomacy and schemes to minimize wars against me, I’ve beenmanaging. Even got one of my guys to be given title of king and created his own off shot religion at some point. But once I made my own religion that’s when I had more wars declared on me than I could Diplomatically get myself out of. .
Was fun.


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## cbwjm (Oct 1, 2020)

I think there are still a lot of things that I'm not 100% sure about. I think it took me a while to figure out that the best way to fight for the land you want is to make a claim to it, also you're lucky, the fabricate claims option can get a whole duchy instead of just a county.

I've also found that not spending all of your gold on upgrades is a good way to go so that you can hire mercenaries. Last night I lost the kingdom of ireland, regained it, died, and had my 2 year old son as ruler. Then I had to fend off pretenders to the throne as well as neighbouring rulers that outclassed me in number or troops completely but since I had several hundred gold I was able to hire a couple of mercenary bands to supplement my forces. Finally stabilised it after 3 (incredibly short) generations.


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## cbwjm (Oct 1, 2020)

Also, Christian rulers really don't like it when you adopt a form of Christianity different from theirs. They really don't like it when you form your own offshoot that makes it matriarchal instead of patriarchal.


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## Zardnaar (Oct 4, 2020)

One of my Stellaris/EUIV players gifted me the gold edition of CKIII. 

  Haven't played it yet.


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## cbwjm (Oct 4, 2020)

I was so close to forming the empire of Britannia, I went on a massive campaign as Alba conquering the British Isles, I knew I wouldn't have the required resources to form it before I died but figured my son would be able to do when he took over. I died and as it turns out, because he was the son of the King of England he was an Anglo-Saxon instead of Gaelic, a requirement to form Britannia. The most annoying part was that I educated him and could have changed his culture to Gaelic but I didn't even think of it, just clicked on through 

Hoping that I can adopt Gaelic culture and form Britannia before everything falls to pieces, otherwise, I'll be starting over... again.


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## cmad1977 (Oct 5, 2020)

I loved CK II.
What follows is a (probably too long) history of Queen Catherine of Ireland. 

Setting: Ireland is a powerful Kingdom forged of the Northern(mine) and Southern(AI) powers that fought for a century unifying after a bitter conflict and a political marriage. Since the marriage the power of the Kingdom grew quickly. 

Catherine was the 3rd child of a great king who was able to spread the power of Ireland into parts of Scotland, Wales, and Northern Spain(helping the Spanish force the moors out of the Iberian peninsula). His Son, and heir to the crown, was an even better example of leadership(his base stats and education were amazing). The middle child died in childhood to a wasting disease near when Catherine was born. 

Her father died when she was two with her older brother crowned upon his passing. 

Her older brother was then murdered THE NEXT DAY!! by the Southern Irish and civil war ensued. 

Enough people stayed loyal to her fathers legacy to force a costly truth. Catherine had lost half of her fathers land in the treaty. 
(Now as a player, I saw that the end of the game was coming and I shrugged and decided to t to keep what I could in the final years.)
Catherine was raised by her loyal councilors who arrange a matrilineal betrothal(eventual marriage) to the 4th heir of the English Crown.
All she wanted was to have a kid and survive to the end of the game.... 
when she had her first child, a boy, the spymaster caught someone trying to kill the newborn. 

It was the SOUTHERN IRISH! 

Queen Catherine quickly went from a meek ruler hoping to survive until her son took over to a blood soaked goddess of vengeance.
War was declared. Prisoners were... not... taken. 
She delved deep in the dark arts of assasin action. So dark that even the newborn children of distant relations to the Southern Irish were slain. Distance made no difference as step brothers or 5th daughters residing in Italy or Germany were slain. Eventually... there were literally no members of that family tree left and Ireland was United again. 

Her hardness even led her to assasinate the King of England(who wound up being the 3rd son after wars in the holy land) and wound up Matrilinealy married to the King of England. 

And so ended the game. Queen Catherine ruled over Brittania and northern Spain and Brittany by right and by puppet king of England. 

I gotta get CK3


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## cbwjm (Oct 5, 2020)

Nice, I really like the stories that result from playing the CK games. 

One time I started as Iceland and slowly took over territory, Iceland was easy enough but when I went to take over the isles below, they'd already been claimed by someone much stronger than me. I bided my time and decided that, since I started as a countess, I'd create a new version of Christianity that was matrilineal (apparently not a word according to my dictionary) and lead the warrior women of Iceland to victory. I don't know what happened after this but I guess a lot of people weren't happy because my children started dropping like flies, murders everywhere, Oprah Winfrey was there handing out murder to everyone. Briefly I held the kingdom of Ireland but before I could get it converted I was overthrown and had my titles stripped from me, no great comeback in that game.

Side note. In games where I started as the King of Alba, I'd marry the same countess, problem being that since she was ruling in iceland I didn't really get much in the way of children. One time it was like I was getting a lot of children but quickly discovered that in fact, they were not mine. Had to resort to murder because the pope liked her more than me so wouldn't grant a divorce even with the adulterer penalty!


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## cmad1977 (Oct 5, 2020)

The stories that grow organically are amazing.


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## cbwjm (Oct 5, 2020)

I had a surprise twist in the game wher re I was trying to form Brittania. I had two sons and three daughters. Decided to disinherit the eldest son since I liked the younger better. Not long after, the eldest son dies anyway. Shortly thereafter, my youngest son and now heir to two kingdoms got thengreat pox and passed away. Now my heir was my eldest daughter and my titles were all split between my 3 daughters.

There was a succession war which i fended off with allies and large numbers of mercenaries before, as mentioned above, I made my play for the empire of Britannia. Crazy times watching my plans all fall apart.


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## Zardnaar (Oct 5, 2020)

cbwjm said:


> I had a surprise twist in the game wher re I was trying to form Brittania. I had two sons and three daughters. Decided to disinherit the eldest son since I liked the younger better. Not long after, the eldest son dies anyway. Shortly thereafter, my youngest son and now heir to two kingdoms got thengreat pox and passed away. Now my heir was my eldest daughter and my titles were all split between my 3 daughters.
> 
> There was a succession war which i fended off with allies and large numbers of mercenaries before, as mentioned above, I made my play for the empire of Britannia. Crazy times watching my plans all fall apart.




 Happens a lot. You don't really get eliminated which is nice. 

 I always try and keep cash on hand for succession. 

Just testing some Stellaris then probably CK tomorrow.


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## cbwjm (Oct 5, 2020)

An update on me reclaiming Britannia. When I loaded up the option to adopt local culture was available so I switched to gaelic, formed the empire of Britannia, and then kicked the norse out of Britain to finally reclaim the isles of Britannia and get the title 'the tuatha de Danaan' (or something like that). Did it with months to spare as I knew I was about to die so the title was kind of wasted. Glad I made it, that was my goal for the game and now I'm not sure what to do with this game. Guess I'll keep expanding.


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