# Best Druid Build - Core Rules + PrC's



## JDragon

Good day all,

I come here humblly sseeking the advice of my fellow players.  Specificly I'm looking for some advice on how to build a druid for a new campaign I'll be playing in later this summer.

The campaign will be in a homebrew world, using a standard generic D&D setting.

We will be starting at 1st level, using a point buy for stats I belive, but I have to confirm that. For initial creation we are using the 3 Core books only. (PHB, DMG, MMI)  We will have access to other sources for PrC's with DM approval.

I know there are a couple ways I could go with the build, but having not done a straight druid in a long time I want make sure I know all my options.

So any suggestions on builds, strengths & weaknesses as well as PrC's to look in to would be greatly appreciated.

Thanks

JD


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## Darklone

Someone with search might be able to dig out the latest few threads like this one...

Summed up, there are different coreclass druid builds, Summoner druid, Monk1 or barbarian1 druid (grappler), archer druid (supporter), blaster/ground control... 

I couldn't really say which one is best. It depends a lot on the campaign, how you play and what the other players do. 

The most important thing about a druid (except for Natural Spell at level 6): You don't have any real weaknesses. You can do anything (melee, spellcasting, healing, even skills) and you can do it for a long long time.


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## Corsair

The only big difference between druids is between those that start at level 1 and those that start at level 5+.  The latter, especially in point buy, will often completely neglect strength and dex (and before the most recent errata, they neglected con as well).  The former don't have that luxury.


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## Plane Sailing

I think that straight druid, level 1-20 is a particularly strong option.


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## AllisterH

Heh...Straight from the CO boards.  

Druid 20, Natural spell, max wis at every possible level, then Con, str or dex, int, cha.

After this, it doesn't matter what feats or skills you use.


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## JDragon

Thanks for the info everyone, its a great start.



			
				Darklone said:
			
		

> Someone with search might be able to dig out the latest few threads like this one...
> 
> Summed up, there are different coreclass druid builds, Summoner druid, Monk1 or barbarian1 druid (grappler), archer druid (supporter), blaster/ground control...
> 
> I couldn't really say which one is best. It depends a lot on the campaign, how you play and what the other players do.
> 
> The most important thing about a druid (except for Natural Spell at level 6): You don't have any real weaknesses. You can do anything (melee, spellcasting, healing, even skills) and you can do it for a long long time.




I don't think I said it very well in my first post, but what I'm looking for is details on those different builds while only using the core books, with the option of other sources for a PrC if thats the direction I decide to go with it.

Specifically the Summoner & Grappler options, I played a blaster mage in our last campaign so  I want to go for something different.

From the little I know it sounds like we will be in a coastal/swamp area for at least part of the campaign.

Thanks

JD


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## Nate Jones

Spell Focus (Conjuration) and Augment Summoning from the PHB are a good place to start for a summoning Druid.


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## Darklone

Summoner/Grappler build as Nate wrote. One or two levels of monk does not hurt at all, you get most monk benefits in wildshape and spells such as Produce Flame, Barkskin and others work well with Stunning Fist . It's a good way to get feats like Imp Grapple without fullfilling prerequisites and IMHO the best way to get a good AC in wildshape.

Elf druids with longbows make for good archers from behind summoned creatures and ground control spells help as well. These druid archers (PBS, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot later) is particularly well suited for group support and for long adventuring campaigns with more than 4 encounters per day.  Don't forget Produce Flame with Rapid Shot!

All these druids need is a good bow.


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## Kolvin

I'm on the straight 20 Druid levels bandwagon. I have a Halfling Druid lvl 14 and I can't think of a Prestige Class that didn't hinder his spellcasting powers without adding valuable other powers.

It's a really complete class.

BTW having a Small Druid enables you to get a Medium mount as your animal companion and that enables you to bypass the nasty 20' movement associated with small races. Longstrider will make you one of the fastest characters in the group since you can share it with your mount.


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## pbd

I would point out, if you're planning on spending a good deal of time wildshaped in melee, a level of monk and the Nature's Warrior and Warshaper classes from CW can be a potent combination. 

You lose some spell progression, but make up for it in melee badness...


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## SteelDraco

I played a melee-oriented druid that I had quite a bit of fun with. Ended at 15th level, he was a dwarf Druid11/Nature's Warrior3/Fighter1. Nature's Warrior got him Fast Healing while in wild shape and +3 damage to every natural attack. I found it a decent trade for a character who mostly didn't cast in combat anyway - he tended to have some buffs running (Stoneskin, cold-substituted Flames of Purity, and Nature's Favor), start combat with a battlefield control spell, and then wade into melee. Where he would demolish things. His attack bonus was somewhere in the low 30s most of the time, so he could safely power attack for five or ten most of the time (no iterative attacks means almost all of this three attacks were going to hit).

This was before the Spell Compendium came out, too. Druids are a SCARY class if played in a powergamey manner.


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## JDragon

Ok, thanks again for the input.

So planning on going 20 levels, I like the small race idea, but I'm guessing I will not want to do a grappler build using a small creature. 

So that leaves the Summoner option.  So what feats should I be taking?  If I'm going non-human thats going to give me my 1 st level feat and then another at 3rd, with Natural Spell at 6th. 

I'll make sure and keep ride maxed out for skills, along with the normal Druid stuff.

* * * *

Going a different route - what do people think of the Wild Shape PrC's?  

Nature's Warrior ,Warshapper, Master of Many Forms or some combination of these.

(If I forgot any please let me know, I'm at work with limited resources.)


And one other thought for the Summoner is the Beastmaster PrC.

JD


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## Sejs

JDragon said:
			
		

> Nature's Warrior ,Warshapper, Master of Many Forms or some combination of these.
> 
> And one other thought for the Summoner is the Beastmaster PrC.




Nature's Warrior - not bad, particularly for a dip.  The fast healing option is very choice.

Warshaper - definitely a solid investment if you plan on being a wildshape melee druid.  Don't take all 5 levels, though.  

Master of Many Forms - just don't.  It's not worth what you lose out on.

Beastmaster - likewise avoid.  This is more for rangers.  Again, you lose too much.

Take a look at the Fist of the Forest PrC from Complete Champion, as well.  May be an option.


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## Darklone

JDragon said:
			
		

> So planning on going 20 levels, I like the small race idea, but I'm guessing I will not want to do a grappler build using a small creature.



Your size does not matter when you are wildshaped. Halflings can as soon wildshape into a large animal as humans can do.


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## Jack Simth

Gnome over halfling - for the Con bonus.  You still get the small size for when not Wildshaped.

Planar Shepherd is broken enough strong enough to replace normal Druid levels, if it's available.  Otherwise?  Pure Druid.

You want ranks in Listen, Spot, and Handle Animal.  Ride is also recommended.  Other skills, such as Heal, Survival, Knoweledge(Nature), Spellcraft, and Diplomacy are useful but not required (unless you're going to go Epic, in which case you want Spellcraft and Knoweledge(Nature) maxed out).  

A 1 level dip into Monk for Wisdom to AC is useful, but it's usually better to find a way to get a Monk's Belt on you, as it gives you most the benefits you're after without losing your Druid progression or locking you into a single alignment.  Likewise, a 1 level dip into Barbarian for Rage is useful if you're going for a grappling build, but potions of Rage (or just the spell from a friendly Bard, Sorcerer, or Wizard) are half as good, don't come with alignment restrictions, and don't fatigue you.

You will want Natural Spell at 6th, just because it's very, very good.

You want to Summon?
Spell Focus (Conjouration) and Augment Summoning.  You spontaneously convert spells to Summon Nature's Ally.  Play an elf for the Longbow proficiency, and stand in the back pelting arrows once you're done summoning for the battle.  The archery tree of course comes in handy at this point (Point Blank Shot, Precise Shot, and so on).  Or you can not play an elf, and just do that type of stuff with Produce Flame.

You already said you didn't want to blast - but a Druid has some of the better Zappy spells in the game.

You want to grapple?  
Wildshape into something Large or larger and strong, and take Improved Grapple (required feat: Improved Unarmed Strike), or just Wildshape into something with Improved Grab.  You don't need to worry about your strength (you get that from Wild Shape).  At lower levels, get a grapple-capable mount, and grapple secondhand by way of Handle Animal (the Camel has the best grapple check, but a negligible attack bonus to start it off, and little AC for when it provokes; it won't succeed very often).  

Depending on how your DM rules Natural Bond and advanced animal companions, you may want to pick up the feat - because it will let an advanced animal companion out-fight a fighter (with a few buffs that you can cast yourself and some leather barding - plus a bit of training, and you there to direct it intelligently).  It's not Core, though, so it may not be available, at least not for a while.

The Mounted Combat feat is very useful if you plan to use your companion as a mount - mostly so you can roll your mount's AC as needed.

I'm rambling, aren't I?  Oh well.

Crafting feats are as good for a Druid as they are for a Cleric or Wizard - but do coordinate with any other spellcasters in the party; you don't want to duplicate crafting feats due to the collaberation rules.

You can be permanently flying earliers - by way of riding a Dire Bat.  If you play a small character, you can even do so in medium dungeons - by way of Reduce Animal on your Dire Bat to make it medium (the Dire Bat is also the highest Armor Class Animal Companion).

You'll want one of the Dire animal companions basically as soon as feasable, for the good Will save.


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## zeroorez

the best place to go for this info 

http://boards1.wizards.com/wotc_archive/index.php/t-391598


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## Nifft

My usual Druid advice:

1/ Druid 20 is the most powerful build. Also, it's easy to remember.

2/ *Scribe Scroll*. Druids have a fantastic spell list, but an awful lot of their spells are highly situational. Make lots of scrolls, because you never know when _quench_ is going to be exactly what you need. Or _rusting grasp_.

3/ Any other item crafting feats are as good for you as anyone else. Magic Arms & Armor is even decent, because you can make your own Wild Armor, which is not often randomly generated. Feat value depends on what you can commission, of course.

4/ *Quicken Spell* is mostly as awesome for you as it is for anyone else. If spells like _nature's favor_ are included in your game, it's exactly as awesome for you as it is for anyone else.

5/ Spell Focus (Conjuration) + Augmented Summoning is a nice combo.

6/ Usual caster stuff: Improved Initiative, Skill Focus (Concentration), Craft Wondrous Item.

Cheers, -- N


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## lukelightning

One note on tough druid builds:

A lot of builds rely on druids wildshaping into dire apes or legendary apes and attacking with weapons. I would personally rule that while an ape has a high degree of manual dexterity, it lacks the manual dexterity required to wield a weapon.  Yeah, apes in real life like to thrash with branches as weapons, but those are mostly threat displays, and when a chimp wants to kill something it uses its hands and teeth.  Furthermore an ape's thumb is not as opposable as a human's, and they have limitations to their grips. Also apes are not fully bipedal and require their forelimbs to move efficiently.

And _most importantly_ I think it is far more fun to claw-claw-*rend for scary damage* than it is to swing a scimitar at someone.


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## Darklone

Doublewield empowered Flameblades with Imp Critical, that's fun.


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## Ridley's Cohort

Gnome riding his Wolf animal companion is fun and pretty close to optimal.

Spell Focus: Conjuration at 1st level.  
--Augment Summoning at 3rd level.
--You will want to eventually get a Dire animal as a companion.  Dire animals have strong Will saves.  I like the Dire Bat and Dire Wolf.  Grizzlies and lions have a more impressive offense, but I do not think it is worth have a bad Will save.
--Natural Spell at 6th level.  (Or perhaps Natural Bond if you have a Dire companion and use a very literal reading of the feat.)

I would note that Riding Dog has is stronger and has a better armor class.  The Wolf has better movement. 

The only reason to multiclass at all is if you really want to be better in melee.  Straight Druid is a good mix as is, especially if you like spellcasting.


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## Ridley's Cohort

Nifft said:
			
		

> 2/ *Scribe Scroll*. Druids have a fantastic spell list, but an awful lot of their spells are highly situational. Make lots of scrolls, because you never know when _quench_ is going to be exactly what you need. Or _rusting grasp_.




That is very good advice.  

If you are not going for Augment Summoning, you will want Scribe Scroll ASAP.  Or go for both if you choose Human as Augment Summoning has no value until 3rd level anyway (you summoning duration is too short).

Spell Focus + Augment Summoning, Natural Spell, and Scribe Scroll are all as close as you can get to "must" have feats.


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## Legildur

Don't bother with Elf/bow proficiency unless you are in a small party. I found that past about 5th or 6th level, I almost never used the bow as almost always had a spell I could use (spontaneous summons are fantastic).

Only problem with summoning is the 1 round casting time - which leaves you exposed to being disrupted (and basically begs for you to be disrupted).

As for small druids, I'm looking at a new campaign where I might play a druid again. But this time as a halfling mounted on a dire weasel with the Mounted Combat and Natural Bond feats. Use spells (like Greater Magic Fang) to boost the attack bonus and have the Weasel gain the Spring Attack feat tree. Then he can close and attach (Ex) and then blood drain (Ex) a round later, relying on Spring Attack to get out of the way if he misses the attack. The druid could then rely on Mounted Combat to try and protect the attached weasel from one attack per round. The druid can also use the weasel for cover! And the dire weasel moves at 40ft.


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## Darklone

Legildur said:
			
		

> Don't bother with Elf/bow proficiency unless you are in a small party. I found that past about 5th or 6th level, I almost never used the bow as almost always had a spell I could use (spontaneous summons are fantastic).



Depends. In my longest running 9 guys (and gals) group, I had two clerics, two druids, a dwarven ftr/rog/wiz, a wizard, a bard, a monk, a bbn1/sorX and a paladin and some other replacement chars.

One of the druids was an elven archer... in fact she was mainly archer and secondary spellcaster. She put all the cash they got into a good magic bow and had all the feats needed to enjoy it. 

Whether this is a good choice or not depends on downtime, resting cycles, short: campaign style and IMX not group size. In my case, the group was regularly out of spells, wands, potions and scrolls and had no chance to get rest. So the druid, who was spending her spells only when shooting wasn't good enough or not an option, always had something left in her big bigbig spellcasting sleeve.


> As for small druids, I'm looking at a new campaign where I might play a druid again. But this time as a halfling mounted on a dire weasel with the Mounted Combat and Natural Bond feats. Use spells (like Greater Magic Fang) to boost the attack bonus and have the Weasel gain the Spring Attack feat tree. Then he can close and attach (Ex) and then blood drain (Ex) a round later, relying on Spring Attack to get out of the way if he misses the attack. The druid could then rely on Mounted Combat to try and protect the attached weasel from one attack per round. The druid can also use the weasel for cover! And the dire weasel moves at 40ft.



The second druid in the group above was a halfling (variant race with WIS bonus), a monk level and he was riding a cheetah. He was regularly darting across the battlefield, staying out of range for the enemies and pelting them with Produce Flame and Call Lightning. Later he wildshaped into a giant octopus. Or a big eagle... ripping a large black dragon from the sky once.


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## Legildur

Darklone said:
			
		

> The second druid in the group above was a halfling (variant race with WIS bonus), a monk level and he was riding a cheetah. He was regularly darting across the battlefield, staying out of range for the enemies and pelting them with Produce Flame and Call Lightning. Later he wildshaped into a giant octopus. Or a big eagle... ripping a large black dragon from the sky once.



Awesome! And I take your point about a druid archer IF you take the requisite feats.


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## Ridley's Cohort

IMO Druids do suffer a bit in small parties.  Often even more than Wizards, as Wizards can more easily boost their effective AC (Mage Armor, Protection from Evil, Shield, Mirror Image, Blur, etc.) and do not rely on such long casting times for offense.  Druid ACs tend to be awful.

On the plus side, the Animal Companion potentially adds a little thickness to the front line.


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## Felix

Sejs said:
			
		

> Master of Many Forms - just don't. It's not worth what you lose out on.



This is true if you're looking to be a full-spellcasting druid. However, if you add 2 levels of Rogue (or Scout) to your 5 levels of druid and max out your Charisma you will be the world's best point-man. There won't be anywhere you won't be able to go virtually unnoticed. Your strength in combat will be marginalized, so you'll likely be confined to a combat-support role. But my goodness you'll shine before and after combat.


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## szilard

If you use the Spell Compendium, Druid spellcasting becomes truly awesome. They excel at self-buffing (Bite of the Werewhatever + wildshape? Yes.) and have a number of long term, multipurpose buffs. Essence of the Raptor is a favorite. (Also, look at the Heart of (element) spells from Complete Mage.) Combat spells are there - and at high levels, Druids get Bombardment, which is one of the best combat spells around. As has been mentioned, Druids make incredible summoners, though I'm not a huge summoning fan - and prefer the spontaneous rejuvenation option from PHBII.

-Stuart


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## Darklone

Legildur said:
			
		

> Awesome! And I take your point about a druid archer IF you take the requisite feats.



Yupp. Over time, she took all necessary archer feats, PBS, Rapid Shot, Precise Shot, Weapon Focus. She started to be real deadly with Rapid Shot at level 3 and when she bought her magic bow some levels later.

The abovementioned halfling had ca +2 more in every attribute, had his monk level for wildshape goodness and had better magic items for what he did... still he wasn't half as effective as she was with her +2 bow of lightning and her very good dex. Can't remember how often she missed... or if she ever missed at all.

She had a good time in the party cause there was no way for her to get cornered by enemy melee men... one of the advantages of a spellcaster/archer in a BIG group. She only had Wis 16 and str 12, con 10... but her dex rocked and made her shine. 

Add all those nice druid spells like firewall...


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