# Iron DM 2009 - FINAL MATCH - it's over!



## Nifft (Oct 4, 2009)

2009 IronDM Winner: Iron Sky

The Matches (in detail by CleverNickName)
*Round One*
Wicht vs. Wulf Ratbane -- Judgment!
Wik vs. Brent_Nall -- Judgment!
InVinoVeritas vs. Pour -- Judgment!
CleverNickName vs. MortalPlague -- Judgment!
Rechan vs. Atras -- Judgment!
humble minion vs. Thasmodious -- Judgment!
Felipe_Real vs. Sparky -- Judgment!
ElectricDragon vs. Iron Sky -- Judgment!

*Round Two*
CleverNickName vs. InVinoVeritas -- Judgment!
Wulf Ratbane vs. Thasmodius -- Judgment!
Wik vs. Atras -- Judgment!
Sparky vs. Iron Sky -- Judgment!

*Round Three*
Wulf Ratbane vs. InVinoVeritas -- Judgment: phoamslinger | Nifft | Radiating Gnome
Wik vs. Iron Sky -- Judgment: Radiating Gnome | phoamslinger | Nifft

*FINAL ROUND*
Iron Sky vs. InVinoVeritas -- Judgment: Radiating Gnome | phoamslinger | Nifft


- - -

*The Chosen Few * 
 Wulf Ratbane *+
 Wicht
 Brent_Nall
 InVinoVeritas *+!
 Pour
 Wik *+
 MortalPlague
 Rechan
 CleverNickName *
 Atras *
 humble minion
 Thasmodious *
 Felipe_Real
 Sparky *
 ElectricDragon
 Iron Sky *+!•


*What is Iron DM?*
"An Iron DM tournament is a contest in which writers show their ability to turn a collection of random ingredients into a cohesive adventure over a short period of time."​
For an archive of past tournaments -- which make for a great read -- see here:
http://www.aquerra.com/IRON_DM/main_archive.htm

*Who can enter?*
Anyone who is not a judge.

*Who are the judges?*
This event is organized by the Rat Bastard DMs Club, and judges are drawn from this membership. This year we have three judges:
 Radiating Gnome
 phoamslinger
 Nifft

*Can I edit my entry once it's posted?*

 No.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 4, 2009)

I will participate --BUT-- I am also willing to step aside if you get a lot of interest, as necessary. 

(Looks like a slow weekend though.)


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## Wicht (Oct 5, 2009)

Count me in.


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## AntiStateQuixote (Oct 5, 2009)

I'll play.


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## Cevalic (Oct 5, 2009)

Sign me up.


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 5, 2009)

I'll join in.


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## Pour (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh! I'll play!


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## Wik (Oct 5, 2009)

Sounds like fun.  I wanted to give it a shot last year, but missed the signup.  Count me in.  Do I need to do stat blocks or anything?


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## MortalPlague (Oct 5, 2009)

Oh hell yes, I'm in!


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## Wicht (Oct 5, 2009)

I'm a bit surprised there's not more interest in this.  For you DMs who've never tried this, its a great way to get your creative juices flowing.


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## Rechan (Oct 5, 2009)

I see that the thread has reached the magic 8 number. I'd like to sign up, but if there's not enough for 16, I understand.


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## Nifft (Oct 5, 2009)

Wicht said:


> I'm a bit surprised there's not more interest in this.  For you DMs who've never tried this, its a great way to get your creative juices flowing.



 Sunday is a slow day around here, and Monday just started for a lot of folks. Also, we haven't had one of these in years, so it's understandable that new folks don't know to be excited.

(My secret hope is to jump-start this contest into a multiple times per year thing, so I can play in some of them... mua-ha-ha!)

Cheers, -- N


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## CleverNickName (Oct 5, 2009)

Count me in!    I've never done this before, but it sounds like 100% awesome.

Is there anything that a newbie like me should know?


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 5, 2009)

Rechan said:


> I see that the thread has reached the magic 8 number. I'd like to sign up, but if there's not enough for 16, I understand.




As I noted above, my participation is entirely contingent on "rounding out the magic number." 

I will participate or not as needed.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 5, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Is there anything that a newbie like me should know?




Read the old tournament entries, and most especially the judgments, if you want a leg up on other newbies.


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## Atras (Oct 5, 2009)

This sounds interesting.  I'll join up!


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## Nifft (Oct 5, 2009)

Atras said:


> This sounds interesting.  I'll join up!



 Welcome.

*5 slots left*.

_Mua-ha-ha!_, -- N


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## Wik (Oct 5, 2009)

Quick question - would I be able to write my entries in Word, and post them as PDFs?  It would make it easier to convert to my blog (where I plan on posting them).


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## Rechan (Oct 5, 2009)

My one request is that my 'turn' not come up until after the 13th. It's midterms. Grad student. You do the math.


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## Nifft (Oct 5, 2009)

Wik said:


> Quick question - would I be able to write my entries in Word, and post them as PDFs?  It would make it easier to convert to my blog (where I plan on posting them).



 What happens when you copy from Word and paste directly into the EN World text widget (in *WYSIWIG* mode)?

Cheers, -- N


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## Wik (Oct 5, 2009)

I've generally found when doing that that I get all sorts of weird text glitches.  But I can give it a try, and hope for the best.


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## Nifft (Oct 5, 2009)

Wik said:


> I've generally found when doing that that I get all sorts of weird text glitches.  But I can give it a try, and hope for the best.



 I don't think you'll be able to get away with much advanced formatting, but then, I don't expect you'll *need* any advanced formatting.

Cheers, -- N


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## humble minion (Oct 6, 2009)

Count me in.


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## Wicht (Oct 6, 2009)

Now that it looks like we're about ready... I'll put in a request for a slot on either tuesday or thursday (but not wednesday.)  Friday is good too.


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## Wik (Oct 6, 2009)

I'm available for any day but monday or tuesday this week, and then any day but monday after that (if at all possible).


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## Thasmodious (Oct 6, 2009)

I'll sign up, sounds like just the thing to keep the fantasy juices flowing while I'm GMing a scifi game.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 6, 2009)

I didn't know we could request the days for the competition...I work full time, and take evening classes all week long.  So if it's possible to get a Saturday or Sunday, that would make my life a lot easier.

But who said it's supposed to be easy?    I'll happily compete on any day I'm assigned.  Bring it.


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## Helena Real (Oct 6, 2009)

I'd like to join in!

If there are any slots available, save a spot for me!

Best regards,

Felipe.


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## Nifft (Oct 6, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I didn't know we could request the days for the competition...I work full time, and take evening classes all week long.  So if it's possible to get a Saturday or Sunday, that would make my life a lot easier.



 There are no schedule guarantees.

I'm taking Rechan's date restriction as: he would like to bow out if his turn would have come up before the 13th, and in that case, someone else will be given his spot.

If we get 16 people, I'm sure the first round will extend past the 13th. If we run go with 8 people, I doubt it will.



Felipe_Real said:


> If there are any slots available, save a spot for me!



 If we get two more, you're in. If we don't, you're on the alternate list.

Cheers, -- N


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## Nifft (Oct 6, 2009)

First match tomorrow!
*Wulf Ratbane vs. Wicht*
Oct. 7, High Noon (Eastern time)

Each match will last for *48 hours*, in consideration of our potentially hectic schedules.


We've elected to leave to keep signups open while until the first few matches have been played, so those on the fence have an opportunity to see what all the fuss is about.


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## Wicht (Oct 6, 2009)

Nifft said:


> First match tomorrow!
> *Wulf Ratbane vs. Wicht*
> Oct. 7, High Noon (Eastern time)






I was hoping to get the rust off of my Iron DM skills before facing Wulf.  

Ah, well I shall endeavor to give satisfaction.


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## Sparky (Oct 6, 2009)

What the heck. I'm in!


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 6, 2009)

Wicht said:


> I was hoping to get the rust off of my Iron DM skills before facing Wulf.




Oof. Bad draw for us both, I guess.


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## Wicht (Oct 6, 2009)

A quick question for the judge to consider:  Are we going to have a wordcount limit?  Forty eight hours is a good bit of time to write in and I think it might behoove the judges to set some sort of upper limit.


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## Nifft (Oct 6, 2009)

Wicht said:


> I was hoping to get the rust off of my Iron DM skills before facing Wulf.





Wulf Ratbane said:


> Oof. Bad draw for us both, I guess.



_Two men enter, one man leave! Two men enter, one man leave!_



Wicht said:


> A quick question for the judge to consider:  Are we going to have a wordcount limit?  Forty eight hours is a good bit of time to write in and I think it might behoove the judges to set some sort of upper limit.



 That's a great idea, and we may want to codify a limit going forward, but I'm not going to hand one down to you guys for this first match. I will remind you that in years past, many entries have been chided for running on too long, and brevity has been a deciding factor.

Cheers, -- N


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## Wicht (Oct 7, 2009)

Just bumping this up for anyone still interested in signing up.


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## wedgeski (Oct 7, 2009)

Rechan said:


> My one request is that my 'turn' not come up until after the 13th. It's midterms. Grad student. You do the math.



You're the student, *you* do the math.


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## ElectricDragon (Oct 7, 2009)

If there's a spot left, I'd like to try.

Ciao,
Dave


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## Nifft (Oct 7, 2009)

ElectricDragon said:


> If there's a spot left, I'd like to try.



 You're in.

*Three spots for alternates still open*.

Cheers, -- N


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## Rechan (Oct 7, 2009)

Are you ready to ruuuuuummmmmmble?


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## Nifft (Oct 7, 2009)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-match-1-a.html

Ingredients will appear at noon.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 7, 2009)

I suppose this is as good a time as any to warn all the newbies that Iron DM takes a serious commitment.


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## Stereofm (Oct 7, 2009)

Hey, from a non american gamer POW : what's Iron DM about ?

From previous posts I gathered that it nvolved GMing a lot at the expense of sleep, but aside from that ?

sorry for the newbie question.


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## Wicht (Oct 7, 2009)

Stereofm said:


> Hey, from a non american gamer POW : what's Iron DM about ?
> 
> From previous posts I gathered that it nvolved GMing a lot at the expense of sleep, but aside from that ?
> 
> sorry for the newbie question.




Iron DM, as played here, involves the judge giving each participant in a round a list of ingredients.  The participants must then devise an adventure summary/outline that utilizes all the ingredients.  The adventure summary the judge likes best wins.


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## Cevalic (Oct 7, 2009)

Im going to have to bow out.  Just found out I have to work out of town for a week.  Sorry about that.


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## Nifft (Oct 7, 2009)

Stereofm said:


> Hey, from a non american gamer POW : what's Iron DM about ?



 A brutal test of story-spinning creativity in the face of harsh time constraints... basically what *Stereofm* said.

IMHO it's most useful to look at past matches: http://www.aquerra.com/IRON_DM/main_archive.htm



Cevalic said:


> Im going to have to bow out.  Just found out I have to work out of town for a week.  Sorry about that.



 No worries, and thanks for the notice. Hope to see you next time.

Cheers, -- N


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## CleverNickName (Oct 8, 2009)

I was just thinking about how many different Food Network competition shows could be made into interesting D&D contests.

*DM vs. City:*  This contest pits two DMs from a random city, against two DMs from the Rat Bastard DM group.  Each team completes a series of challenges designed to prove once and for all which team rules the town.  These challenges are designed to test a DMs ability to run a fair and entertaining game...things like, "In twenty words or less, resolve this conflict between two players" or "write a riddle that has 'ink' as its answer."

*Chopped:* A game for 4 DMs, played in three rounds: Magic Item, Monster, and Adventure.  Each round has its own list of ingredients, and the DMs must create a unique magic item (or monster, or adventure) using those ingredients.  One DM is chopped after each round, until only one remains.

*RBDM Challenge: <Ingredient>:* Like Iron DM, except there is only one incredibly difficult ingredient and all applicants compete at once and a single winner is chosen from all.

*Ace of Dungeons: *a glorified art contest, where DMs submit their most awesome, most kickass custom maps and terrain for a particular setting.

I'm sure there are more...


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## Pour (Oct 8, 2009)

Haha I like those ideas, Clever.

Quick, and perhaps dumb, question. Are we designing with 4e, including skill challenges and such?


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## Nifft (Oct 8, 2009)

Pour said:


> Quick, and perhaps dumb, question. Are we designing with 4e, including skill challenges and such?



 Edition-neutral. Feel free to design for 3.x or 4e or Pathfinder, though, if one of those tickles your fancy.


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## Wicht (Oct 8, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Edition-neutral. Feel free to design for 3.x or 4e or Pathfinder, though, if one of those tickles your fancy.




I was looking through my past contests yesterday and in a prior event between me and Wulf, Wulf turned in a D20 modern adventure (which won).  

Personally, I can't even speak 4ese, so I'll be sticking to d20 systems I am much more familiar with.  Design for what you know and love.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 8, 2009)

Wicht said:


> Personally, I can't even speak 4ese, so I'll be sticking to d20 systems I am much more familiar with.  Design for what you know and love.



For me, it would probably come down to the ingredients.  I like the BECM gargoyle better than the d20 one, for example, so if I get "gargoyle" as an ingredient, I would reach for my Rules Cyclopedia first.


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## Pour (Oct 8, 2009)

Ah, I really like it being our choice. Would it be possible to give the schedule of round 1 and what days we all have to compete?


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## jmucchiello (Oct 8, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I was just thinking about how many different Food Network competition shows could be made into interesting D&D contests.



Of course Iron Chef predates Food Network by almost 10 years....



> *DM vs. City:*  This contest pits two DMs from a random city, against two DMs from the Rat Bastard DM group.  Each team completes a series of challenges designed to prove once and for all which team rules the town.  These challenges are designed to test a DMs ability to run a fair and entertaining game...things like, "In twenty words or less, resolve this conflict between two players" or "write a riddle that has 'ink' as its answer."



Where's the city? The whole point of the food show is that the local foodies are supposed to have an advantage based on location.



> *RBDM Challenge: <Ingredient>:* Like Iron DM, except there is only one incredibly difficult ingredient and all applicants compete at once and a single winner is chosen from all.



Having one ingredient also makes it more like the original Iron Chef

I want "Throwdown" (no need for name alteration), "Scenario: Impossible", and of course "Dungeons, Dragons and Dice".


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## Pour (Oct 8, 2009)

Scenario: Impossible could really work. Not sure exactly what the overwhelming odds would be. More ingredients, perhaps, or something that really stretches the limits of a person, something like create an Adventure Path in 3 days!


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## CleverNickName (Oct 8, 2009)

Pour said:


> Scenario: Impossible could really work. Not sure exactly what the overwhelming odds would be. More ingredients, perhaps, or something that really stretches the limits of a person, something like create an Adventure Path in 3 days!



Scenario: Impossible idea: "You have thirty minutes to write a balanced, playable house rule for grappling a troll.  Using the Red Box rules only.  GO!"


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## jmucchiello (Oct 8, 2009)

Pour said:


> Scenario: Impossible could really work. Not sure exactly what the overwhelming odds would be. More ingredients, perhaps, or something that really stretches the limits of a person, something like create an Adventure Path in 3 days!




Perhaps too outrageous. And I like the idea of having helpers who aren't "cooks" that often happens on that show. So make this a team game with 1 main DM and 4 sous-DMs. The event runner chooses an overall location and creates a list of 15 ingredients and a list of 3 forbidden elements. The DM receives the parameters and has 24 hours to divvy up 1-2 ingredients (at most) to each sous-DM and a one sentence description. The sous-DMs don't know what the other sous-DMs are working on nor what their ingredients are (they do know what is forbidden). They have 24 hours to give the DM a 1-2 room encounter involving their ingredients. The DM then has additional 48 hours to turn those 4 encounters plus as many other events, background material, etc as he likes (which presumably include the missing ingredients) into a cohesive adventure. He must use 90% of each sous-DM's work in the final work. He can rearrange, split, spindle and mutilate them but it should "easy" to find the majority of the text they turned in within the finished product. 24 hours before the deadline the DM receives a 16th ingredient "twist" that he must add to the adventure.

Summary:
time= 0: DM receives 1 major location, 15 ingredients, 3 forbidden elements
time=24: DM send up to 3 ingredients (and location and forbidden info) to his 4 sous-DMs. He may give them guidance in a single sentence no more than 15 words long.
time=48: The sous-DMs post what they've done. They could have written 1-2 dungeon rooms. They could have written 1-2 timed events in a city/style adventure. At this time, the event coordinator can reveal the total list of ingredients.
time=72: The DM receives a surprise 16th ingredient.
time=96: Final adventure is due.

(If there's interest, perhaps I'll run it a month or two after the Iron DM competition is complete.)


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## Wicht (Oct 8, 2009)

My entry is in.  A little over 1500 words.  Now to wait for Wulf to finish up his.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 8, 2009)

Wicht said:


> My entry is in.  A little over 1500 words.  Now to wait for Wulf to finish up his.



Wow, that was fast.  I thought you had 48 hours to finish.  You are, what? a day ahead of schedule?


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## Wicht (Oct 8, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Wow, that was fast.  I thought you had 48 hours to finish.  You are, what? a day ahead of schedule?




The 48 hours is just a scheduling courtesy.  You really ought to be able to finish up your entry in under 24 hours.  Still, as I did have a things to do both last night and this morning, I appreciated having just a little extra time.


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## Wik (Oct 9, 2009)

Good work on it all, Wicht.  I've been playing around with your ingredient list, to get into practice.  I totally did things differently, but I like how you laid yours out.  I'd say more, but of course, that'd break the rules.

Hoping I get to play you later on... a Wik/Wicht showdown would just be too good.


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## Wicht (Oct 9, 2009)

Once more I awake to this thread being on the second page...  That won't do.

If there is still interest in competing, I think the judges still have a few open slots.  

And, thank you for the kind words Wik.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 9, 2009)

the next match will be *Brent_Nall* vs *InVinoVeritas* at noon TODAY.  can both of you please post confirming that you are ready to go before that time, otherwise I'll push back to 6pm Eastern time tonight, then to noon tomorrow (Saturday) at the latest.

after this each match will start approximately when the last one ends (in other words, 48 hours between match ups).  for the first round matches will be paired up in the order of sign up listed on page 1 of the thread, so next will be Pour vs Wik, followed by MortalPlague vs Rechan, etc.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 9, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> the next match will be *Brent_Nall* vs *InVinoVeritas* at noon TODAY.  can both of you please post confirming that you are ready to go before that time, otherwise I'll push back to 6pm Eastern time tonight, then to noon tomorrow (Saturday) at the latest.
> 
> after this each match will start approximately when the last one ends (in other words, 48 hours between match ups).  for the first round matches will be paired up in the order of sign up listed on page 1 of the thread, so next will be Pour vs Wik, followed by MortalPlague vs Rechan, etc.



Ah, I see.  So that means the schedule looks something like this, barring any cancellations or disqualifications:

*EDIT:*  Updated 10-24-09

*ROUND ONE*

*Match 1:*
Wulf Ratbane  vs. Wicht
Wednesday, Oct. 7

*Match 2:*
Brent_Nall vs. Wik
Friday, Oct. 9

*Match 3:*
Pour vs. InVinoVeritas
Sunday, Oct. 11

*Match 4:*
MortalPlague vs. CleverNickName
Thursday, Oct. 15

*Match 5:*
Rechan vs. Atras
Friday, Oct. 16

*Match 6:*
humble minion vs. Thasmodious
Monday, Oct. 19

*Match 7:*
Felipe_Real vs. Sparky
Tuesday, Oct. 20

*Match 8:*
ElectricDragon vs. Iron Sky
Thursday, Oct. 22

*ROUND TWO*

*Match 1:*
InVinoVeritas vs. CleverNickName
Saturday, Oct. 24

*Match 2:*
Wulf Ratbane vs. Thasmodious
Tuesday, Oct. 27

*Match 3:*
Atras vs. Wik
Thursday, Oct. 29

*Match 4:*
Sparky vs. Iron Sky
Sunday, Nov. 1

*ROUND THREE*

*Match 1:*
InVinoVeritas vs. Wulf Ratbane
Wednesday, Nov. 4

*Match 2:*
Wik vs. Iron Sky
Friday, Nov. 5

*FINAL ROUND*

*Match 1:*
InVinoVeritas vs. Iron Sky
Thursday, Nov. 12


-----

*Legend*
Match completed
Match in progress
Awaiting judgement
Scheduled matches


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## AntiStateQuixote (Oct 9, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> the next match will be *Brent_Nall* vs *InVinoVeritas* at noon TODAY.  can both of you please post confirming that you are ready to go before that time, otherwise I'll push back to 6pm Eastern time tonight, then to noon tomorrow (Saturday) at the latest.




Present and ready to go, work, D&D and TexRenFest opening this weekend not withstanding.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 9, 2009)

Wicht said:


> The 48 hours is just a scheduling courtesy.  You really ought to be able to finish up your entry in under 24 hours.  Still, as I did have a things to do both last night and this morning, I appreciated having just a little extra time.




Ditto for me, in converse. I had a rehearsal the first night and free time last night. 

But I still wish I had more time because... these things are brutal. 

Just remember: It's better to lose with honor than to flake out and quit. No matter what, at least get your ass across the finish line. That in itself is no small feat, as some of you newbies are about to discover.



Wik said:


> Hoping I get to play you later on... a Wik/Wicht showdown would just be too good.




Well, screw you, too, buddy!


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## Nifft (Oct 9, 2009)

(from the other thread)



Wulf Ratbane said:


> I apologize for forgetting some of the formatting niceties-- it's been years.



 IMHO your formatting is perfectly fine. As long as the formatting doesn't actually detract from legibility, it's ignored.

*Radiating Gnome* will post his judgment of this match soon, but we won't be waiting on that to kick off match 2.

Cheers, -- N


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## Wicht (Oct 9, 2009)

Glad you got it in Wulf.  I was starting to worry.  Now I can distractedly wait upon the judge instead.  

I will say, having the judge be anonymous before the judging makes it a whole lot harder to play to the tastes of the judge.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 9, 2009)

Wicht said:


> I will say, having the judge be anonymous before the judging makes it a whole lot harder to play to the tastes of the judge.




I noticed that too.

I don't really do too much of that myself (that I can consciously recall). 

I was actually hoping to see a Nifft judgment, as it would (I believe) be unprecedented thus far.

Hee hee... I wonder if you could work it into some kind of prisoner's dilemma format? The contestants each pick a judge they'd like to judge, and if they pick the same one, that guy judges; and if not, the one guy they didn't pick judges.

Ahem. 

Can you tell I spend my days tinkering with rules for no damn reason?


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## phoamslinger (Oct 9, 2009)

since Veritas hasn't acknowledged, I'll push the start back to 6pm tonight.

ALTERNATELY
would Wik or Pour like to jump the queue and start now against Brent?


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## Wicht (Oct 9, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> I don't really do too much of that myself (that I can consciously recall).




I don't actually either (hence my tongue sticking emoticon).  I write them to please myself first and foremost.  But I know that as rounds progress, you do get some "don't do that" moments based on the prior comments of the judge.  

Interesting choice by the way to go for a solo adventure.


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## Pour (Oct 9, 2009)

I would if I could, but it turns out where Wik and I are at is perfect for my schedule (Sunday-Tuesday). I'm actually heading out the door soon for most of the weekend.

Haha and what is all this Wicht/Wik stuff???


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## Nifft (Oct 9, 2009)

(from the other thread -- please keep comments in this one!)



CleverNickName said:


> Wow.  Just...wow.  These are some seriously awesome adventure ideas.  Escape from a regenerating skull?  Sailing an airship through Pandemonium?
> 
> I'm screwed.



 Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha! (But yeah, that's why this contest is awesome.)

@ *Wulf*: I'll give my thoughts on this round after the official judgment is posted, so that I'm less of a black box for the relevant unfortunate souls.




Pour said:


> Haha and what is all this Wicht/Wik stuff???



 It might be ... *Wicht*ful thinking.

Cheers, -- N


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 9, 2009)

Sblocked so as not to influence judging with commentary-- judges don't look.

[sblock]



Wicht said:


> Interesting choice by the way to go for a solo adventure.




In my experience it is usually the paladin's party who ends up causing his fall from grace, and so I figure they are equally unlikely to volunteer to help him out of a jam.

But then, I game with a bunch of a-holes, just like me. 

I reckon playing a paladin you're going to have at least one of those moments where you turn your back on the party, shoulder your pack, and slowly walk away while the theme song from The Incredible Hulk plays... just for you...



[/sblock]


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## Wicht (Oct 9, 2009)

Nifft said:


> It might be ... *Wicht*ful thinking.
> 
> Cheers, -- N




One thing I learned very early in this contest is that you never have it in the bag.  The judging is subjective and therefore can turn on a dime.  



Spoiler



7+ years later and I still think I was robbed.


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## Nifft (Oct 9, 2009)

Wicht said:


> One thing I learned very early in this contest is that you never have it in the bag.  The judging is subjective and therefore can turn on a dime.



 This is truest when both entries are excellent. The blinding glow of incandescent prose makes the borders hard to judge for our poor mortal eyes.

Cheers, -- N


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## CleverNickName (Oct 9, 2009)

Nifft said:


> (from the other thread -- please keep comments in this one!)



Woops, my bad.  I've edited out the offending post.

Seriously, bravo guys.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 9, 2009)

Wicht said:


> One thing I learned very early in this contest is that you never have it in the bag.  The judging is subjective and therefore can turn on a dime.




The capriciousness of the judging is directly proportional to the nemmerlesquality of the judge.


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## Wicht (Oct 9, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> The capriciousness of the judging is directly proportional to the nemmerlesquality of the judge.




heh  

I have to leave the computer for a few hours.  I was hoping the judgment would come in before but, ah well, such is our lot.


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## Iron Sky (Oct 9, 2009)

If there's a slot open still, I'll sign up.


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## Nifft (Oct 9, 2009)

Iron Sky said:


> If there's a slot open still, I'll sign up.



 There was one.

*Still 3 slots left for alternates*, who get in if someone has to bow out.

Cheers, -- N


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## Wik (Oct 9, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> Well, screw you, too, buddy!




Ha ha.  Nothing personal.  I've read your entries from earlier tournies, and they're great.  If you changed your name to some derivative of "wik", I'd be cheering for you.  




			
				phoamslinger said:
			
		

> since Veritas hasn't acknowledged, I'll push the start back to 6pm tonight.
> 
> ALTERNATELY
> would Wik or Pour like to jump the queue and start now against Brent?




Yeah, I don't mind doing it at all.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 9, 2009)

OK then,  Brent_Nall and Wik starting in just a few minutes from now, going to 6pm Sunday.  I will be judging...

(Pour and InVinoVeritas, your match will start at Noon on Sunday.)

***

a short introduction for those who don’t know me.

I won the first Nutkinland Iron DM tourney and I’ve run a couple of them since (including the Iron Tapestry, which if Nemm ever gets it up on his site is a full 20+ level campaign setting as well as a blast to read).  I like thinking outside the box and creative usage of the various ingredients.  So if you spin me a tale of a group of women who hire the group to rob a bank, escaping through a swamp where they have to fight a hydra using a magic potion, I know which one I WON’T be picking for the win.  in other words, a generic plot device hires the PCs to rob a generic target in a generic setting, fighting a generic monster with a generic magic item is not the way to go.  stretch your creativity a bit here guys and girls.

another thing I look hard at is _why_ the ingredient is there.  if I can replace the hydra with an ogre or a group of troglodytes and it would make no major difference to the plot, I’m not as impressed.  (the best example of this I ever saw btw, the ingredient was Brass Buttons: the secret villain was recognizable by the buttons on his clothes, but when he made his escape through a crevice, the buttons popped off his vest providing the clue who had committed the crime!  that item could not have been replaced with anything else without changing how the scenario ended, therefore it was integral to the overall story.) 

 I also look for links between the ingredients; how does the first relate to each of the others, how does the second relate to the rest, etc.

so be creative and tell a good, fun story and you’ll do well.

and your ingredients are there!


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 10, 2009)

...and now I'm here.

Just to check, I work typically from 8am-7pm EST Mon-Fri... I don't think I would have had the opportunity to see that the round would exist at any time today.


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## Wik (Oct 10, 2009)

So, here's my submission.

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-match-1-a.html#post4957525

It was a lot harder than I thought it'd be!  My ingredients were tough to gel together cohesively, for sure.


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## rogueboy (Oct 10, 2009)

I have nothing but respect for everyone who does this. I would love to participate, but there is no way I have enough time to do so (I barely have enough time to keep up on the forums) 

Perhaps next time I'll have more time and will be able to participate, we'll see. For this time, good luck all, and I look forward to all the entries!


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## humble minion (Oct 10, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> the Iron Tapestry, which if Nemm ever gets it up on his site is a full 20+ level campaign setting as well as a blast to read




Agreed!  That's an incredible piece of imagination and worldbuilding, and I sincerely hope to see it accessible some time soon.  It's in fact the reason I'm doing this in the first place, I found it so inspirational.

For what it's worth, I'm utterly terrified of my turn coming around, and simultaneously can't wait.  This could be rough, but dammit, I'm going to submit SOMETHING no matter how tricky the ingredients!


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## Pour (Oct 10, 2009)

> For what it's worth, I'm utterly terrified of my turn coming around, and simultaneously can't wait. This could be rough, but dammit, I'm going to submit SOMETHING no matter how tricky the ingredients!



Same here. 

And high noon tomorrow sounds perfect.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 10, 2009)

Wow...another early submission!  If I have any time left over after writing my adventure, I think I would be tempted to continue polishing and adding to it right up to the buzzer.   I hope it doesn't count against me if I use every single minute of the time available to me...


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## Woas (Oct 10, 2009)

I saw on the previous page that Iron DM is 'edition-neutral'. But is it 'game-neutral' too, or just aimed at D&D? I didn't see that anywhere...

Thanks!


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## Nifft (Oct 10, 2009)

Woas said:


> I saw on the previous page that Iron DM is 'edition-neutral'. But is it 'game-neutral' too, or just aimed at D&D? I didn't see that anywhere...
> 
> Thanks!



 It is game-neutral, *but...* use discretion.

Usability is a criteria for judgment. If your entry is only usable in some custom homebrew game system, it's not gonna win. Likewise, a less-used game (like SW Saga or d20 Modern) has a usability gap that must be compensated for with that much more awesomeness in all other areas.

Also, many ingredients are drawn from D&D's iconic landscape. If you get the ingredient "Grell", for example, you'd better do a damn good job convincing me that at least one "Grell" belongs in whatever game and/or setting you choose. 

Grell in d20 Modern? Plausible.
Grell in Exalted? Hoo boy.

That said, you may be inspired to create such a work of overwhelming awesomeness, that it more than compensates for your game and/or setting handicap.

So basically: use discretion.

"_You Do Your Best, We'll Do Our Worst!_", -- N


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 11, 2009)

I've posted the judgement for the first round match between Wulf and Wicht.  Here's the link: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-match-1-a.html#post4957190


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 11, 2009)

Now that I have posted my judgement, I'll hang around here for the ritual of abuse and second-guessing . . . . lord knows I've been doing it to myself long enough over this match.  There was a whole lot to like about both entries, it was a far tougher choice that I expected.


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## Wicht (Oct 11, 2009)

oof...

Knocked out in the first round.   


Congragulations Wulf!   I'll be cheering for you.


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## Wicht (Oct 11, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Now that I have posted my judgement, I'll hang around here for the ritual of abuse...




Boo...  Hiss...  The ref is blind!!!

Now that I've got that out of my system I feel much better, thanks.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 11, 2009)

Wicht said:


> oof...
> 
> Knocked out in the first round.
> 
> ...




holy crap! I came here first, before the judgment... let me take a look and come back for the mutual backslappin'...

Ok. Everything sblocked in case judges or others don't want to see it:

[sblock]

This is key for me:



			
				Judge Radiating Gnome said:
			
		

> Holy Avenger - This one should have been just about as easy to work in as the Slaad -- obvious handles to bring this into the story. But in KMD, the appearance of the holy avenger seems to be an out-of-place afterthought. The setup for the whole adventure -- that this is meant to serve as an object lesson in the "lawful" part of "lawful good" creates some serious expectations for me. I'm expecting that there will be some clear standoff between the two -- with the inevitables creating the situation where the law must be honored before the good. In that setting, the Holy Avenger almost seems like it would be the tool of the opposition. Instead, it's part of a matched set -- the holy and righteous avengers -- and we're told that the paladin PC is given "one of them" but not even which one. It's also possible to read the adventure with the Paladin serving the role of "holy avenger" -- he is called upon directly to avenge the dead guardsmen -- but I found that also very problematic in an adventure that is meant to be putting law and justice ahead of all other concerns. Revenge is not lawful, it is not judicious; it's personal and emotional and chaotic, and my sense is that the command to bring ur-Valos to justice was replaced with a commandment to avenge the slain people to create this second reading of holy avenger . . . . but I find that out of place. It's possible that with some broader explanation the role of Horatio as the voice of the people and the "good" could serve as a counterpoint to the voice of the inevitables, the law -- but I don't see that developed in this particular writeup. I think that in KMD there is ambition to reach beyond the obvious use for Holy avenger that don't pan out, while the usage in BoC is predictable but it works. Advantage BoC.




I think this is a very apt observation. I was very aware that the Holy Avenger was probably among my weakest ingredients.

First, let me see that I tried to work the ingredients into multiple places-- the Reticent Constable is certainly Claudius, but also perhaps the Kolyarut; the holy avenger is a sword but also perhaps the paladin himself, etc.

_No question_ it was weak.

It's a really hard ingredient to get in-- there's no call for a holy avenger against (the obvious antagonists) the slaad: They ain't evil.

Barring that ingredient, I am confident that the seeds of a really good investigative, instructional adventure are here. Free from the shackles of the competition, this is an entry I can see myself blowing out later.

So... Immediately after saying that I don't pander to the proclivities of the judges, I'm left with the obvious fact that I sneaked through this round by the skin of my teeth by... getting lucky on the proclivities of the judge.

(FYI: There was no other literary "visitation of three ghosts" analogue intended.)

Despite the fact that I'm happy with the basic premise and setup of my entry, I don't have the same confidence in my use of the ingredients, and given a different judge-- particularly Phoamslinger, and his exhortation to make sure that all the ingredients are used in a unique and non-interchangeable way-- I would certainly have lost this round.

So I feel that my entry-- in addition to this mea culpa-- has really done nothing other than_ raise the bar on myself_ for the next round.

I'll do my best to carry the "Former Champion" banner high on Wicht's behalf and give these newbies wot's wot.

[/sblock]


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## Wik (Oct 11, 2009)

They were both great adventures, too.  And a very hard list of ingredients - particularly the Wind Skerries and Constitutional Monarchy.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 11, 2009)

I have just one more thing to say:

In my life I have entered all sorts of competitions, both physical and mental, rational and creative. 

I have found that Iron DM is almost unique in its ability to engender both an intense desire to win as well as the inescapable conclusion that losing is a *mercy*.

(I should run for public office. I bet it feels the same.)


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 11, 2009)

I just hope, Wicht, that in 7+ years . . . oh, nevermind.  

It was a real challenge to judge the two of you in my first outing as a Iron DM judge -- me, just some big-nosed git and you two such long-standing luminaries around here.  I had to make it a point to refer to the name of the adventure, and not the authors, to try to keep myself steady.  

Looking back at this thread, I can see that the other two judges have had a much more active hand in here than I have, and since my proclivities ended up being the deciding factor in this match, maybe a little background about me is appropriate . . . 

There are a few of the early Iron DM competitions that I took part in back in the bad old days -- if you look back in the archives, you'll find that I've never won . . . you'll see me grow up a lot in the course of a few rounds of play, too.  Iron DM is one of those trials by fire that really can help us grow. 

I'm going to be interested in much the same things (and using the same core system to evaluate entries) as Nifft and Phoamsinger -- they're both way smarter than me, anyway.  When we get down to personal tastes and leanings, I'm going to be drawn to good story, good writing, and adventures that scratch the sort of itches that I'm frequently trying to scratch in my own games -- how do we make our games about more than just beating the snot out of scaly monsters?  How do we take advantage of RPGs to be more than just a complex wargame?  If you can do even a little of that, in the crucible of Iron DM . . . limited time, ingredient lists on loan from Torquemada, and a supply of opponents who apparently have no need to work, sleep, eat or attend to other responsibilities . . . well, then I think you're going to go far in this thing. 

-rg


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## Wicht (Oct 11, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> I just hope, Wicht, that in 7+ years . . . oh, nevermind.




No worries.  I'm more mature than I was then.  

I used to think that if I liked it, everybody must like it.  But one grows to recognize that taste and opinions fluctuate wildly and while there is no accounting for some opinions, everybody has one.  Which is why I stated above that one should never assume one has this particular contest in the bag before the judgement comes down.  I made that mistake my first time up but I try not to anymore.  

And, as Wulf said, defeat has its own rewards.  I'll have more free time now for other things.


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## Nifft (Oct 11, 2009)

*InVinoVeritas* and *Pour* -- let me know you've seen this, and we'll kick off your match, hopefully around 6M this evening.

Thanks, -- N


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 11, 2009)

I'm here, and I've seen it.


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## Nifft (Oct 11, 2009)

Great. If we hear from *Pour*, we could even kick off a bit early.

Thanks, -- N


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## Pour (Oct 11, 2009)

Sweet. Lets do this.


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## Nifft (Oct 11, 2009)

Excellent!

I'll post the ingredients in 15 minutes (at 1:00 PM eastern time) in the other thread, then add links here.

May the best beverage reference win.


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## Nifft (Oct 11, 2009)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches.html#post4958523

Go to it.


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## AntiStateQuixote (Oct 11, 2009)

Wik said:


> So, here's my submission.
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-match-1-a.html#post4957525
> 
> It was a lot harder than I thought it'd be!  My ingredients were tough to gel together cohesively, for sure.




Nicely done, Wik!  I'm later getting mine in . . . BUSY weekend.

Here's my entry.


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## AntiStateQuixote (Oct 11, 2009)

Brent_Nall said:


> Nicely done, Wik!  I'm later getting mine in . . . BUSY weekend.
> 
> Here's my entry.




Heh.  We both had three desperate housewives.  Must be something in the air.


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## Wik (Oct 11, 2009)

Before I read yours, I just wanna say good luck, break a leg, and all that fun stuff.  Can't wait to see how you interpreted things!


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 12, 2009)

My submission is up.

I hope you all enjoy.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 12, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> My submission is up.
> 
> I hope you all enjoy.



Spoiler-safe, in case the judges are lurking about...

[SBLOCK=Comment on IVV's Entry]First of all, I would like to say that I love your use of the "granite shield" ingredient...a granite shield volcano?  Awesome.  But my inner geology geek has been wimpering like a kicked puppy, because well...there's just no such thing.  Andesidic magma is just too thick, chunky, and volatile to form a shield volcano (in fact, it normally explodes into ash and pyroclastics on contact with air.)  Only basalt, with it smooth-flowing pāhoehoe, can spread out far enough to make a shield.  Molten granite doesn't "flow," so it ends up making composites or cinder cones instead of shields.

Okay, my inner geology geek feels a lot better.  

That said, I love the mystery you are building here, with regard to the monastery and the halflings.  Where did these exotic foods come from, if nothing grows in this volcanic wasteland?  And I love how the demon's power, control, and even its life, centers around food and the magical frying pan.  (A vampire?  OF COURSE he would be able to defeat the demon...he doesn't eat!)

Brilliant use of the ingredients.  This is my favorite submittal so far.[/SBLOCK]


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## phoamslinger (Oct 12, 2009)

judgement for *Wik* vs *Brent_Nall* is done.

if someone wants to link to it, I'd be appreciative.  I'm at work and don't have time to figure out links right now.  

edit. nm, figured it out.


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## Nifft (Oct 12, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> if someone wants to link to it, I'd be appreciative.



 Done.


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## Markn (Oct 12, 2009)

Wow...

phoamslinger's judgement seems...harsh.  It's one things to rule in favor of the other contestant, its another to say some of the things that were said.  Also concerning to me, is the strong biased opinion against 4e.  I mean, Potion of Fiery Breath isn't an item in 4e, yet does exist in 3.5 IIRC.

I'm new to Iron DM, and considered joining in but decided to watch this go around (mostly due to time constraints), so maybe I am misinterpreting something (and if so would like to be corrected) but an ingrediant that favors one system over another (based on the fact it exists in one and not the other) doesn't seem entirely fair.


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## Wicht (Oct 12, 2009)

Markn said:


> Wow...
> 
> phoamslinger's judgement seems...harsh.  It's one things to rule in favor of the other contestant, its another to say some of the things that were said.  Also concerning to me, is the strong biased opinion against 4e.  I mean, Potion of Fiery Breath isn't an item in 4e, yet does exist in 3.5 IIRC.
> 
> I'm new to Iron DM, and considered joining in but decided to watch this go around (mostly due to time constraints), so maybe I am misinterpreting something (and if so would like to be corrected) but an ingrediant that favors one system over another (based on the fact it exists in one and not the other) doesn't seem entirely fair.




Potions of fire breathing aren't in 4e?   
I find that,... interesting.

Considering that this particular contest featured a 4e entry that beat out another 4e entry, I wouldn't worry too much about the DM bias.  And as for ingredients, finding ways to fit them in is part of the challenge.  

As for judge harshness, thems the breaks... though I would have liked to see a bit more commentary on Wik's entry.  Wik is potentially left wondering whether the judge thinks he did things mostly right or whether the judge simply liked the other guy's less.   But back to the judge, those drawing Phoamslinger now know a little of what to expect.  It is after all called IronDM, not tinfoil DM   

Not that I think fear of the judges should keep people from entering the next contest (or even signing up as an alternate for this one.  Those afraid of constructive/semi-constructive criticism will not improve as quickly as those that can accept it.


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## AntiStateQuixote (Oct 12, 2009)

Wicht said:


> As for judge harshness, thems the breaks... though I would have liked to see a bit more commentary on Wik's entry.  Wik is potentially left wondering whether the judge thinks he did things mostly right or whether the judge simply liked the other guy's less.




As the recipient of the "harsh" judgment, I had exactly the same thought.

I liked Wik's entry.  I also liked mine.  If I had to judge them I'd probably give the win to Wik because I think he did a better job of incorporating the ingredients and of evoking a better feel for his story.  I certainly would have spent more time praising Wik than tearing me down.  But those are the breaks.

I'm going to run my entry as part of my ongoing campaign one of these days.  Hopefully my players will enjoy it more than the judge seemed to think he would enjoy being in my games.


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## Markn (Oct 12, 2009)

Brent_Nall,

Glad to hear you are ok with the judge's response.

As Wicht pointed out, accepting constructive criticism is key to improving ones writing and by no means am I trying to disrespect phoamslinger in any way other than perhaps to offer constructive critcism on focusing on positives as much as negatives as Wicht suggested.  I found the review to be one sided.

At any rate, it doesn't scare me away from a contest like this.  Passion, whether writing or judging IS important.

I look forward to the next judgement...


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## phoamslinger (Oct 12, 2009)

Markn said:


> Wow...
> 
> phoamslinger's judgement seems...harsh.  It's one things to rule in favor of the other contestant, its another to say some of the things that were said.  Also concerning to me, is the strong biased opinion against 4e.  I mean, Potion of Fiery Breath isn't an item in 4e, yet does exist in 3.5 IIRC.
> 
> I'm new to Iron DM, and considered joining in but decided to watch this go around (mostly due to time constraints), so maybe I am misinterpreting something (and if so would like to be corrected) but an ingrediant that favors one system over another (based on the fact it exists in one and not the other) doesn't seem entirely fair.




hi Markn!

I'm suspecting that Brent_Nall didn't see my earlier post (#82, this thread), which I actually dropped onto this thread *before* I posted the ingredients for the match.  if so, I'll apologize again for being mean.  

however, back in the day, after running several tournaments, Nemmerle had high, high standards of what he expected, (including formatting!) and was fully capable of ripping folks up one side and down the other for entries he considered not up to par.  in the first Iron DMs you had THREE HOURS to put out a finished product, not 48.  I don't use Nemm as an excuse, but do offer him as an arguement that I definitely didn't set any precedents today.

re the 3E/4E thing.  I'm looking for entries that tie a gordion's knot of ingredients, where *nothing* could be used other than the 6 items provided and they're all cross-connected at every single point throughout the scenario.

and btw, you won't find flaming skillets of the master chef in either edition (or in 2nd, or Advanced, or Basic, or in Chainmail).  ingredients can come from anywhere, and creative usage of them is what I look for the hardest.  even if Wik had called the potions Elixirs of Dragonbreath (the PC 4E name) throughout his entry, he still would have gotten a better call from my judging than Brent did because Wik used it creatively.

different judges judge things differently.  I've seen people pull wild haikus into their entry, spin palindromes into chapter titles, transcribe song lyrics, or just be so evocative in their descriptive prose that you can feel the silence of the light snow drifting down as the adventurers are traveling to the monastery.  I like out of the box.  I also like originality.  I think it makes the game more interesting.

sorry again if I went a bit overboard.


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## Wik (Oct 12, 2009)

Well, Brent, I just want to say that I got pretty nervous when I saw your entry.  I felt there were some total strokes of genius - for example, using the trolls gave the PCs a pretty big option.  They could attack the trolls (with a weapon that gave them a huge advantage), or let things go easy with them.  I was also pretty nervous because, well, my housewives weren't really strongly housewives.... their earlier marriages weren't really a plot element, but a background element.  Looking back, I should have kept them married, and used their husbands a bit more.  

So, I felt that you had me beat on most of the ingredients, with the possible exception of the Dry Well.  

In any case, I thought it was a pretty close match, myself.  Looking forward to next year - and your submission.

As for the 4e "controversy", I think it is a much easier adventure to write adventures for than 3e, for sure.  I can understand Phoam's dislike of part of the system, but after running it for a year, I think it can actually make better adventures than 3e once the GM knows what s/he's doing.  At least, it works that way for me.

My next submission, though, will probably be a 2e adventure.  I almost went that way for this entry, in fact.  

All that being said, does this mean I'm against Wulf next?  I think after my previous comments about Wicht/Wik, Wulf is gonna want to beat me into the ground!


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## Markn (Oct 13, 2009)

Phoamslinger,

Thanks for taking the time to respond.  I have a better idea of where you are coming from.


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## Pour (Oct 13, 2009)

Posted my entry. 

Just wanted to wish my competitor good luck and hope you all enjoy.


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## AntiStateQuixote (Oct 13, 2009)

Wik said:


> Well, Brent, I just want to say that I got pretty nervous when I saw your entry.  I felt there were some total strokes of genius - for example, using the trolls gave the PCs a pretty big option.  They could attack the trolls (with a weapon that gave them a huge advantage), or let things go easy with them.  I was also pretty nervous because, well, my housewives weren't really strongly housewives.... their earlier marriages weren't really a plot element, but a background element.  Looking back, I should have kept them married, and used their husbands a bit more.
> 
> So, I felt that you had me beat on most of the ingredients, with the possible exception of the Dry Well.
> 
> In any case, I thought it was a pretty close match, myself.  Looking forward to next year - and your submission.



I think you beat me pretty soundly.  Trying to keep it short (I was at 1800 words) I left out my background for the swamp and why it was haunted and how that tied in to previous wars between men and trolls.

My "dry well" was obviously just a dry hole in the ground going to the Elemental Chaos.  Again, some more description and such might have helped, but then it would have made it much longer.



			
				Wik said:
			
		

> As for the 4e "controversy", I think it is a much easier adventure to write adventures for than 3e, for sure.  I can understand Phoam's dislike of part of the system, but after running it for a year, I think it can actually make better adventures than 3e once the GM knows what s/he's doing.  At least, it works that way for me.



I thought this was a no brainer 4e adventure.  The skill challenges to cross the swamp and interaction with the potential enemies/allies . . . well, maybe it's just me.  I love 4e and how easy it is to whip out encounters.  I kept my encounter descriptions short, mainly because I felt like any DM can grab the Monster Builder and put together level appropriate encounters with the right monsters/feel.  If I had written up the traps/obstacles/terrain for the final encounter that alone would have probably been 500 words or more!

I enjoyed it, even if phoamslinger did rip me a new one. 

And, yeah, I didn't read his post before I posted . . . oops.


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 13, 2009)

Pour said:


> Posted my entry.
> 
> Just wanted to wish my competitor good luck and hope you all enjoy.




Thanks, Pour, and I wish you good luck, too.


----------



## MortalPlague (Oct 13, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> *Round 4:*
> MortalPlague vs. Rechan
> Tuesday, Oct. 13




I'm really battling a giant here...  

I can't wait to get started.


----------



## Radiating Gnome (Oct 13, 2009)

Brent_Nall said:


> I thought this was a no brainer 4e adventure.  The skill challenges to cross the swamp and interaction with the potential enemies/allies . . . well, maybe it's just me.  I love 4e and how easy it is to whip out encounters.




Just to make it clear that there's some diversity in Judging going on . . . I'm a big fan of 4e.  I'm running two active campaigns, playing in more, and have absolutely no desire to go back to 3.5.  That said, I think that the values of the Iron DM, and of the Rat Bastard Dungeon Masters as a whole, are values that transcend edition.  Creating an evocative scene for your players, creating a story that they can get engaged with, doing more than stringing together a daisy chain of combat encounters -- that's a real challenge no matter which edition you're playing, and it's the difference between a good referee and a good dungeon master.  

So, I respect Phoamy's antipathy for 4e, but I think in the end we're all talking about the same core ideas, anyway, so it doesn't matter if he's off his nut. 

-rg


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## Wik (Oct 13, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Just to make it clear that there's some diversity in Judging going on . . . I'm a big fan of 4e.  I'm running two active campaigns, playing in more, and have absolutely no desire to go back to 3.5.  That said, I think that the values of the Iron DM, and of the Rat Bastard Dungeon Masters as a whole, are values that transcend edition.  Creating an evocative scene for your players, creating a story that they can get engaged with, doing more than stringing together a daisy chain of combat encounters -- that's a real challenge no matter which edition you're playing, and it's the difference between a good referee and a good dungeon master.
> 
> So, I respect Phoamy's antipathy for 4e, but I think in the end we're all talking about the same core ideas, anyway, so it doesn't matter if he's off his nut.
> 
> -rg




True enough, and I mostly agree.  I think, in a hypothetical situation where two contestants submitted entries, and entry #1 was 3.5E, and #2 was 4e, that any of the current IRON DM judges' system preference wouldn't really come into play.  They are approaching things fairly, of that I have no doubt.

I have to disagree, though, with your last statement, about how we're all talking about the "same core ideas".  A different edition of preference can and will influence "core" ideas of D&D.  

See, and here's where I agree with Brent's original point, there is the fact that some of the ingredients listed so far show a system preference, in terms of names and the like.  To use an example (and I'm only using it because it's one I noticed, being involved and all), the "rogue hydra".

I saw that, and instantly thought "How does a hydra go 'rogue'?  Aren't they 'rogue' and untamed by nature?".  Brent thought the same thing, so we played with the terms.  I think my "rogue" part of the entry was pretty weak - the only "rogue" part about it was how it was heading toward the main town on a warpath.  But that was as close as I could get.

Turns out, when the judge thought of the ingredients, he was thinking along the lines of "rogue as a character class" hydra.  Which, in any edition but 3E, isn't really a common way of thinking (you can't make a solo monster like a hydra into a rogue in 4e without some serious tweaking).  So, that ingredient as intended had an obvious system bias - your own system of preference would influence how you viewed it.

To take the example a bit further, let's say I was perfect with my "rogue" hydra description.  Let's say it was a trained hydra, and then it escaped from a circus or something, thus "going rogue".  That's a valid use of the ingredient.  But let's say my opponent thinks "rogue as a character class", because he's still thinking 3E, and makes a rogue as a character class hydra.  

We both submit an ingredient, and we both use it well.  If the entries are close, and the judge goes through ingredient by ingredient, who wins in this contest?  We both used different interpretations of the same ingredient, but the winner is going to be the guy whose entry appeals most to the judge's edition of preference, because the judge will look at the rogue hydra he was thinking of when creating it, and look at the other hydra and say "well, it isn't really _rogue_".

For what it's worth, I'm not complaining about the judging system.  It will have its holes, obviously, and problems like this arise in much larger competitions than this one.  I just think it's an issue that should be considered by the judges, who may not realize that their own edition preferences can influence how they view an ingredient.  

Another example:  If the judge puts forward "blue dragon" as an ingredient, thinking of older edition blues, he has to be prepared for the 4e player to submit an ocean adventure as opposed to the 3e player's desert adventure... they're both equally "right".  His preference for how blues are "supposed" to be should not influence the choices the contestants make in their entry... just the entry's value and adherence to the ingredients given.

My two cents.  Hope it makes my point, without sounding like I'm complaining or anything like that.  Just trying to point out that sometimes edition of preference can influence "core" ideas of D&D.


----------



## MortalPlague (Oct 13, 2009)

Wik said:


> If the judge puts forward "blue dragon" as an ingredient, thinking of older edition blues, he has to be prepared for the 4e player to submit an ocean adventure as opposed to the 3e player's desert adventure... they're both equally "right".




Good points raised, Wik.  Mind you, even as a rabid 4th Edition enthusiast, I still run my blue dragons in deserts.  

Also, when are Rechan and I facing off?  Going by the unofficial list, I thought it was going to start today?


----------



## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 13, 2009)

Wik said:


> To use an example (and I'm only using it because it's one I noticed, being involved and all), the "rogue hydra".
> 
> I saw that, and instantly thought "How does a hydra go 'rogue'?  Aren't they 'rogue' and untamed by nature?".
> 
> Turns out, when the judge thought of the ingredients, he was thinking along the lines of "rogue as a character class" hydra.




I have won many rounds through (or perhaps in spite of) deliberately playing with the meaning of the words. 

No judge in my experience has ever dinged me because he had a specific word usage in mind that I failed to meet. Personally, when I see an ingredient like "rogue hydra," _expect _the judge to look for alternate meanings.

The first thing I do, each and every time I get the ingredient list, is go over the ingredients and look for alternate meanings. If you find alternate meanings for the ingredients, _you expand your ingredient list_, which makes it easier to make connections.

(Probably shouldn't be giving away my secrets like that.)


----------



## Wik (Oct 13, 2009)

MortalPlague said:


> Good points raised, Wik.  Mind you, even as a rabid 4th Edition enthusiast, I still run my blue dragons in deserts.
> 
> Also, when are Rechan and I facing off?  Going by the unofficial list, I thought it was going to start today?




Me too, actually.  

the "blue dragon" thing was one of those that I think 4e sort of screwed up on... along with Myconids and Hydras (I don't like how hydras don't regenerate anymore).


----------



## Wicht (Oct 13, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> I have won many rounds through (or perhaps in spite of) deliberately playing with the meaning of the words.
> 
> No judge in my experience has ever dinged me because he had a specific word usage in mind that I failed to meet. Personally, when I see an ingredient like "rogue hydra," _expect _the judge to look for alternate meanings.
> 
> ...





One of the things I try to do is use each ingredient twice.  That is not always possible but very often when you take a little time to look at the words you can come up with two different ways in which the word might be applied.  For instand, when I looked up the word Skerry for the entry wind Skerry, I found that there were three possible definitions.  The third, a type of rat, didn't really speak to me, but the image of rocks sticking out of the ocean became, in my mind, rocks floating in the wind.  Likewise the idea of a boat sailing between these rocks was a natural transition.  Thus I incorporated both of the possible meanings of skerry into the adventure.


----------



## Wik (Oct 13, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> I have won many rounds through (or perhaps in spite of) deliberately playing with the meaning of the words.
> 
> No judge in my experience has ever dinged me because he had a specific word usage in mind that I failed to meet. Personally, when I see an ingredient like "rogue hydra," _expect _the judge to look for alternate meanings.
> 
> ...




Yeah, I did that too, for my submission.  I seriously considered the idea of my "Dry well" being "dry" in terms of alcohol-free (in a pirate town!).  But I liked where I went with it more.  

My point earlier though was that in our judge's review of our pieces, he specifically mentioned how he interpreted "rogue hydra" with an example.  And I can guarantee it was one I never thought of, and this was entirely due to an edition preference of my own (though I probably would never have thought of it in my 3e years, either).  

In any case, it's all academic.  I'm looking forward to round two against you, Wulf.  Thanks for the trade secrets.


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## Sparky (Oct 13, 2009)

Wicht said:


> One of the things I try to do is use each ingredient twice. That is not always possible...




See, and I saw that as a weakness in a few of the entries I've read. I can see how dipping into an ingredient twice could more deeply intwine it into phoamslinger's gordian knot, but the second use (when I noticed it) diluted the impact of the first use. In my head I said, 'oh, he didn't think the other was strong enough.' 

But, hey, this is my first Iron DM. What do I know?!


----------



## Wik (Oct 13, 2009)

Sparky said:


> See, and I saw that as a weakness in a few of the entries I've read. I can see how dipping into an ingredient twice could more deeply intwine it into phoamslinger's gordian knot, but the second use (when I noticed it) diluted the impact of the first use. In my head I said, 'oh, he didn't think the other was strong enough.'
> 
> But, hey, this is my first Iron DM. What do I know?!




I think it really depends on the ingredient.  If it's something like, say, "gnolls", then you should drop it as many times as possible, and possibly give your other ingredients a gnoll theme.  But, of course, if it's something pretty specific, like, um, "boots of speed", you might not want to go overboard.

Since we're sharing tricks, my rule for my last entry was that every ingredient had to tie into at least two other ingredients somehow, so that everything would seem organic, and not like mad libs or something.  I kind of screwed that up in the end for one ingredient (my Bank Vault only had a connection to one - the wives wanted the treasure within), but I made sure that ingredient was necessary for driving the adventure so it wouldn't be forgotten.

I really like Phoam's earlier hint - basically, if your ingredient can be taken out of the adventure or replaced by something else without making a few changes, it isn't wedged into your adventure strongly enough.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 14, 2009)

Wik said:


> I saw that, and instantly thought "How does a hydra go 'rogue'?  Aren't they 'rogue' and untamed by nature?".  Brent thought the same thing, so we played with the terms.  I think my "rogue" part of the entry was pretty weak - the only "rogue" part about it was how it was heading toward the main town on a warpath.  But that was as close as I could get.




I should have gone into more detail on this one, but forgot until after I hit Submit, and then wasn't going to go back and edit.  Wik your rogue hydra *was* kind of weak, but I gave you brownie points for the idea of the three women combining their pets into the form of a hydra.  the dictionary definition I put into the judgement had the scoundrel listed there (and I'm sure is the basis for the rogue class as well), but there are other definitions about be twisty and sneaky, and your story gave me an interesting visual.  So you got a "not really roguish but a really cool idea!" vote on that one.

but you really have hit on the reason I wasn't as impressed by Brent's rampaging hydra.  yes it's a hurricane force of nature headed towards civilization, but how would that be any different from any other hydra that managed to get that big?  other than being out of control, I just didn't feel that the Chaos Hydra was all that different from what a commonplace hydra would be doing in the same situation.

another side of the same item, why did it *HAVE TO BE* a hydra, rogue or otherwise?  why did it have to be THAT potion, instead of some other fire-based weapon?  why a dry well and not a cave or some other hole in the ground?  etc.  this is something all the judges look at to one extent or another.  Brent's rampaging monster could have been replaced with any other type of rampaging monster and the players would have been none the wiser.    your hydra was a combination of the pets and the women, which logically became the form of a hydra and it would have been difficult to justify it becoming something else without a lot more exposition.

that's why I considered your's to be the stronger ingredient.



> Turns out, when the judge thought of the ingredients, he was thinking along the lines of "rogue as a character class" hydra.




actually, no I was just giving that as an example to try and get you guys to think a little more out of the box.  I wouldn't honestly have expected anyone to come up with that interpretation.  I did want to see what you DID come up with to make the monster a "rogue".  the answer was, neither of you did that well, but at least yours was twisty in a wierd way.


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## Wik (Oct 14, 2009)

Fair enough.  And, for the record Phoamy, I'm just one of those people that get caught in arguments waaaay too often.    There was no personal problem with the interpretation or anything.  I knew my hydra was weak as a "rogue", but it was one of those ingredients that really confused me. (Which is a good thing for this competition!) For the life of me, I couldn't think of a way a hydra could be "rogue" unless it broke loose from something - which is sort of their default nature.

When you posted your example later on, right after a claim that you hated 4e, it sort of cemented in my mind that 3.5E was your edition of preference, and that explained why you would use that example.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 14, 2009)

I could use a status update. Where does the competition stand at the moment? Is there a summary post being updated?


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## CleverNickName (Oct 14, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> I could use a status update. Where does the competition stand at the moment? Is there a summary post being updated?



I updated the unofficial roster over on page 4, but I haven't heard anything specific from the judges.  Round 1 Match 4 (MortalPlague vs. Rechan) was supposed to start yesterday, but didn't...so it sort of threw off all of my dates.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 14, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I updated the unofficial roster over on page 4, but I haven't heard anything specific from the judges.  Round 1 Match 4 (MortalPlague vs. Rechan) was supposed to start yesterday, but didn't...so it sort of threw off all of my dates.




Thanks!

Is it confirmed that I will face Wik in Round Two?


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## CleverNickName (Oct 14, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> Thanks!
> 
> Is it confirmed that I will face Wik in Round Two?



Nothing has been confirmed.  But if we are using the same single-elimination bracket that was used in previous Iron DM competitions, then I think so...the winner of Match 1 gets paired with the winner of Match 2, Match 3 with Match 4, and so forth.  But this isn't official, it is just my observation.


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## Pour (Oct 14, 2009)

Suspense.... killing... me.... *falls over*


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## phoamslinger (Oct 14, 2009)

not sure where RG is at...

let's dance!

are MortalPlague & Rechan ready to go today?  if they will check in before 6pm I'll toss the next set of ingredients out there.  

if Radiating Gnome posts before then, then he can put the ingredients out.


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## MortalPlague (Oct 14, 2009)

I'm all set and ready to go.  Bring on the ingredients!


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## phoamslinger (Oct 14, 2009)

but no sign of Rechan?  I had jury duty today (limited access to the web), so I guess we'll push back for a start time tomorrow, noon or 6pm.  are there any other first rounders who'd be willing to step up and go against MortalPlague tomorrow if Rechan doesn't reply?  

MP, ingredients will definitely be there tomorrow if we can get you an opponent, so watch for them.


----------



## CleverNickName (Oct 14, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> but no sign of Rechan?  I had jury duty today (limited access to the web), so I guess we'll push back for a start time tomorrow, noon or 6pm.  are there any other first rounders who'd be willing to step up and go against MortalPlague tomorrow if Rechan doesn't reply?
> 
> MP, ingredients will definitely be there tomorrow if we can get you an opponent, so watch for them.



Sure, I'll go if Rechan doesn't show.


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## MortalPlague (Oct 14, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> MP, ingredients will definitely be there tomorrow if we can get you an opponent, so watch for them.




I'll keep an eye out.  It's noon eastern time, right?


----------



## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> not sure where RG is at...
> 
> let's dance!
> 
> ...




Sorry I wasn't around.  We'll get them out tomorrow, one way or the other.  

-rg, who regrets the necessity of the day job.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

Okay, it's about 9am EST right now.  My plan is to post a set of ingredients for Mortalplague and Rechan, with Clevernickname as a backup for Rechan if he has not chimed in.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 15, 2009)

Cool, I'll be waiting on stand-by.  Noon, right?


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

I see Clever . . . Mortal, Rechan, are you guys on deck, too?


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

Are there ANY first round contestants around and ready to play?  Just in case neither primary is available?


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## CleverNickName (Oct 15, 2009)

Hmm...where did everybody go?


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

New Plan == We will try again at/around 6pm EST.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 15, 2009)

Gaah.  I have class at that time.    Oh well.  It'll only cost me a couple of hours.  I'll check back around 3:00 PST, one way or another.


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## Pour (Oct 15, 2009)

Is there any ETA on the judgment of round 3?


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

I don't know anything, sorry.  It looks like you've stumped Nifft.   

I'm sure he'll get it up as soon as he's able. I haven't seen any activity from him since his post that it would be posted last night.  I'm hoping that he's just been delayed by mundane cr@p.  

-rg


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## MortalPlague (Oct 15, 2009)

Alright, I'm here.  6 pm EST is 3 pm Pacific, right?  I'll be at work till 10 pm EST anyway, CleverNickName (though I'll probably get a chance to check elements).

Bring it on!


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## CleverNickName (Oct 15, 2009)

Awesome.  See you then!

(But if you would like to post the ingredients early, RG, like anytime between now and 2:30 PST before I go to class, that would be splendid.)


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

okay, MP and CNN, you two are the fourth round.  I'm sitting at my desk watching this thread . . . I know it's yet another post from each of you, but if you're both around, Answer back and I'll post as soon as I've heard from both of you again. 

(If we don't connect, I'll post at 6 PM as planned for MP and CNN. ) 

-j


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## CleverNickName (Oct 15, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> okay, MP and CNN, you two are the fourth round.  I'm sitting at my desk watching this thread . . . I know it's yet another post from each of you, but if you're both around, Answer back and I'll post as soon as I've heard from both of you again.
> 
> (If we don't connect, I'll post at 6 PM as planned for MP and CNN. )
> 
> -j



Answering back.    I updated the unofficial roster to reflect the change in schedule, too.

I feel bad for Pour.  He's been on pins and needles for most of the week!


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

Come on MP.  Get off the john and post!


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I feel bad for Pour.  He's been on pins and needles for most of the week!




Since Phoamy is unavailable during the day today, I'm temporarily last judge standing.  If a judgement has not be delivered by tomorrow morning, I'll post one of my own as soon as I am able.  I'm sure that's not going to be necessary, but I wanted to let everyone know there's a contingency plan. 

-rg


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## Pour (Oct 15, 2009)

Nah don't feel bad, haha. This is all just a lesson in patience, which I need more of. I'm anxious to see the verdict, definitely, but there isn't any rush if more time is needed. Real life has a way of swamping people real fast and without warning.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

Okay . . right now it's 3:25 EST.  

If I leave at 4 without having posted the ingredients early, they'll go up as planned at 6 (actually a little after). 

I'm at work, but I'm going to have to leave here for a meeting on the way home. I will be getting out of that meeting at 6 EST, so I'll get home about 6:15 EST, where I'll get on and post the ingredients.  So, it'll be about 6:15.


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## Nifft (Oct 15, 2009)

Pour said:


> Nah don't feel bad, haha. This is all just a lesson in patience, which I need more of. I'm anxious to see the verdict, definitely, but there isn't any rush if more time is needed. Real life has a way of swamping people real fast and without warning.



 Thank you for being so patient. Real Life (tm) was indeed a tad troublesome over the last two days.

I'll get a judgment posted ASAP.

"_That Slow Guy_", -- N


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## Nifft (Oct 15, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> I don't know anything, sorry.  It looks like you've stumped Nifft.



 It's up: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-2.html#post4961378

Thanks, -- N


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

All right, are we ready for round four?


----------



## CleverNickName (Oct 15, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> All right, are we ready for round four?



Oh for the love of Pelor, just post the ingredients already!  

EDIT: Er, I mean, um, yes I am ready, Mr. Judge person...


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 15, 2009)

Okay, they're posted. 
http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-2.html#post4964245

Let me say upfront that I'm not 100% happy with not having MortalPLague immediately available to confirm that he gets them at the same time.  Be aware that I intend to allow him a few extra hours, if he needs them.  He did post earlier that he would get a chance to check for them from time to time while he's at work, so hopefully he can get them before too long.


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## Pour (Oct 15, 2009)

Good luck to everyone in their future matches! And thanks for being so gracious in the final critique, Nifft.


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## Nifft (Oct 15, 2009)

Pour said:


> Good luck to everyone in their future matches! And thanks for being so gracious in the final critique, Nifft.



 Well, I had no choice really. You were both darn good.

I hope to see you in this thing again.

Thanks, -- N


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 15, 2009)

Thanks for the judgment! It's detailed with plenty of good, important info.

Pour, you were a great competitor, and I honestly felt it could go either way. I'll have to think more about the details going forward, and your adventure, with its completeness, will help me with that. Thank you for such a great match!


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## MortalPlague (Oct 16, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Let me say upfront that I'm not 100% happy with not having MortalPLague immediately available to confirm that he gets them at the same time.  Be aware that I intend to allow him a few extra hours, if he needs them.  He did post earlier that he would get a chance to check for them from time to time while he's at work, so hopefully he can get them before too long.




Checking them now.  I shouldn't need extra time, I've got almost all Friday free.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 16, 2009)

Awesome.  Rock it, you guys.  Make my job hard!

-rg


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## MortalPlague (Oct 16, 2009)

I have to say, I'm really having fun with these elements.  This contest really exercises one's creativity!


----------



## Thanael (Oct 16, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Spoiler-safe, in case the judges are lurking about...
> 
> [SBLOCK=Comment on IVV's Entry]First of all, I would like to say that I love your use of the "granite shield" ingredient...a granite shield volcano?  Awesome.  But my inner geology geek has been wimpering like a kicked puppy, because well...there's just no such thing.  Andesidic magma is just too thick, chunky, and volatile to form a shield volcano (in fact, it normally explodes into ash and pyroclastics on contact with air.)  Only basalt, with it smooth-flowing pāhoehoe, can spread out far enough to make a shield.  Molten granite doesn't "flow," so it ends up making composites or cinder cones instead of shields.
> 
> ...




IVV, I also liked your entry very much. I also have a small question:
[sblock] Why a glabrezu ? They're tempters so that kind of fits, but how about the ghoulish Maurezhi. ? Wouldn't that have been a great monster for the food/gluttony theme? [/sblock]


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## phoamslinger (Oct 16, 2009)

the next match up: Rechan vs Atras

I will not have access to the boards tomorrow, so I will be posting your ingredients at noon on Sunday.  please post here that you have seen this and are ready to go.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 16, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Awesome.   it, you guys.  Make my  hard!




Unnecessary censorship!


----------



## Atras (Oct 16, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> the next match up: Rechan vs Atras
> 
> I will not have access to the boards tomorrow, so I will be posting your ingredients at noon on Sunday.  please post here that you have seen this and are ready to go.



Reporting that I have seen the information.  Do you want to risk a little bit of overlap, and post ingredients late tonight?  If you did around midnight, 48 hours would get until the end of Sunday, rather than a deadline on Tuesday.


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## Rechan (Oct 16, 2009)

I am ready for my closeup, Mr Nifftville.


----------



## phoamslinger (Oct 16, 2009)

Atras said:


> Reporting that I have seen the information.  Do you want to risk a little bit of overlap, and post ingredients late tonight?  If you did around midnight, 48 hours would get until the end of Sunday, rather than a deadline on Tuesday.




I can do that.  Rechan, you ready to go tonight at midnight?  you'd both have the weekend then?


----------



## Rechan (Oct 16, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> I can do that.  Rechan, you ready to go tonight at midnight?  you'd both have the weekend then?



Bring it.


----------



## phoamslinger (Oct 16, 2009)

ok, Rechan vs Atras; your ingredients will be going up at around midnight tonight.  you will have until midnight Sunday to finish.  I came up with a very challenging set (and then decided to save them for later in the contest).  so the list you'll be getting will be much friendlier   

be ready.


----------



## InVinoVeritas (Oct 17, 2009)

Thanael said:


> IVV, I also liked your entry very much. I also have a small question:
> [sblock] Why a glabrezu ? They're tempters so that kind of fits, but how about the ghoulish Maurezhi. ? Wouldn't that have been a great monster for the food/gluttony theme? [/sblock]




My match is over, so I'll talk about it without sblocks.

I felt the glabrezu, being a tempter, was a better choice in this case because he wasn't about gluttony, but comparative advantage in nutrition. Imagine if no one could cook anything. We wouldn't be able to eat pretty much any grasses--no wheat, rice, corn, etc. For the most part, we'd starve. The comparative advantage in nutrition gives such a leg up, it's all the temptation he needs. Furthermore, the glabrezu can cast _reverse gravity_, which the monastery appropriated to be able to fly over the volcano. The challenge rating of the glabrezu was also better for a party at levels 7-8: too high for direct combat, but too low to trivially crush the party as collateral damage. Finally, the Maurezhi are more about eating than about cooking. Also, the Maurezhi aren't particularly intelligent--it would be more hard pressed for one to maintain the focus over five thousand years to eventually escape. I felt that for all the above reasons, the glabrezu was the best fit for the adventure.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 17, 2009)

Rechan said:


> Bring it.




*Oh, it's done been BROUGHTEN!*


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## phoamslinger (Oct 17, 2009)

Rechan vs Atras.  ingredients are UP!


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## MortalPlague (Oct 17, 2009)

My entry is up.

Certainly a challenging competition.  I look forward to seeing what CleverNickName puts in!

Also, I really like those elements for the 4th contest.  Some of those are _quality_.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 17, 2009)

MortalPlague said:


> Also, I really like those elements for the 4th contest.  Some of those are _quality_.




 

-ingredient ideator


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## CleverNickName (Oct 17, 2009)

I just posted my entry.

Win or lose, I'd just like to say that this was the most fun I've ever had creating an adventure.


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## Nifft (Oct 17, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Win or lose, I'd just like to say that this was the most fun I've ever had creating an adventure.



 Most excellent.

With any luck, this contest will become a regular thing.

Thanks, -- N


----------



## MortalPlague (Oct 18, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I just posted my entry.
> 
> Win or lose, I'd just like to say that this was the most fun I've ever had creating an adventure.




Nice entry, CNN.  You've got some really good ideas going on there.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 18, 2009)

I've posted my judgement.  Thanks to both CleverNickName and MortalPlague.  

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-2.html#post4966351

-rg


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## Rechan (Oct 18, 2009)

My entry is up.


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## Nifft (Oct 18, 2009)

*humble minion* and *Thasmodious*, how does starting Sunday evening sound?

Thanks, -- N


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## humble minion (Oct 18, 2009)

I'm ready to go pretty much any time, personally.


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## Thasmodious (Oct 18, 2009)

Timing works fine for me.  I won't be around much Sunday evening, but Monday's pretty open and I'll still have some time on Tuesday for spit and polish if needed.


----------



## CleverNickName (Oct 18, 2009)

MortalPlague said:


> Nice entry, CNN.  You've got some really good ideas going on there.



Thanks, MP.  But I think your adventure had the most "going on," especially where the ingredients are concerned.    You used all of the ingredients equally well, where I made really strong use of two ingredients and sort of glossed over the others.  



Radiating Gnome said:


> I think, CleverNickName, you should keep doing what you're doing well, but if you expect to take your game beyond the second round, you're going to have to do better with the ingredients, too.  Don't settle for lip service.



Thanks for your honest feedback.  You totally caught me...that backpack and those three wishes really gave me trouble.  I just couldn't figure out how to include them without it feeling contrived.  In the end, I just sort of paid lip service to them and crossed my fingers.

I'll take your advice to heart.  I see that I've got a lot to learn.


----------



## Nifft (Oct 18, 2009)

humble minion said:


> I'm ready to go pretty much any time, personally.






Thasmodious said:


> Timing works fine for me.  I won't be around much Sunday evening, but Monday's pretty open and I'll still have some time on Tuesday for spit and polish if needed.




Okay. Let's aim for 6M this evening, then.

Thanks, -- N


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## Pour (Oct 18, 2009)

Nifft said:


> With any luck, this contest will become a regular thing.





Here's hoping. I need a shot at redemption! Plus it has been a lot of fun to watch.


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## Wik (Oct 18, 2009)

Yeah.  I was hoping to see a loser's bracket in this tournament, but I didn't want to say anything before judgement had been passed on my first entry (cuz it would look lame suggesting it beforehand!).  

tournaments with loser's brackets are always fun.  Simply make the last round of the tournament (winner's bracket vs. loser's bracket) one in which the winner can either ignore one or two ingredients, or the loser has to use multiple ingredients... or, better yet, make the ingredient number the same, but the loser has to observe a tight word count restriction (has to be 1500 words or less, for example).


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## Nifft (Oct 18, 2009)

humble minion, Thasmodius -- your ingredients are served.

Enjoy, -- N


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## Atras (Oct 19, 2009)

Rechan said:


> My entry is up.



 Took me a lot longer to actually get the whole thing on paper than I thought, but mine is up now.  It is really pure 4E, so if you don't like 4E, just give it a FAIL and move on.


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## Sparky (Oct 19, 2009)

Atras said:


> Took me a lot longer to actually get the whole thing on paper than I thought, but mine is up now. It is really pure 4E, so if you don't like 4E, just give it a FAIL and move on.




_Shhh..._ don't provoke the curmudgeonly judges.


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## Atras (Oct 19, 2009)

Sparky said:


> _Shhh..._ don't provoke the curmudgeonly judges.



 Ha!  After reading phoamslingers anti-4E rant in his judgement I almost decided to call him as a Bedridden Troll and just say screw it to the whole thing.  Win or lose, it was a fun experiment for me.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 19, 2009)

Atras said:


> Ha!  After reading phoamslingers anti-4E rant in his judgement I almost decided to call him as a Bedridden Troll and just say screw it to the whole thing.  Win or lose, it was a fun experiment for me.



Oh come on...would you really forefit the game just because the judge said he doesn't like 4E?  That seems a bit rash.  This is supposed to be about storytelling, not game editions.

[SBLOCK=BTW, I liked your submission.]The foot-removing trap was a stroke of genius, and I like the concept of a psychotic bard.  I would have liked to have seen some more flavor and backstory, though, specifically on how and why the bard is so nasty.

And how the heck did you have the time to do all of this?!    I barely had enough time to type my entry, let alone stat out my villain.   You've even got a map in there, for crying out loud!  Your time management skills are impeccable.  Best of luck to you, sir![/SBLOCK]


----------



## CleverNickName (Oct 19, 2009)

Rechan said:


> My entry is up.



S-block'd in case any judges are lurking about.
[SBLOCK=I saw what you did there.]I like the tandem use of the word "troll" in there, how you use it as both a monster type and a fishing technique.  This seems to be a pretty useful tactic in the Iron DM contest.

And I like the whole "murder mystery" thing you've got going on.  And having the troll be bedridden by a massive case of acid reflux disease was just brilliant.  Well-played.[/SBLOCK]


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 19, 2009)

If you are spending time on your entry worrying about what edition it is for, you probably need to pull back and refocus.

Plot, pacing, characters, theme, mood... you need nothing edition-specific to win.


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## Atras (Oct 19, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Oh come on...would you really forefit the game just because the judge said he doesn't like 4E?  That seems a bit rash.  This is supposed to be about storytelling, not game editions.
> 
> [SBLOCK=BTW, I liked your submission.]The foot-removing trap was a stroke of genius, and I like the concept of a psychotic bard.  I would have liked to have seen some more flavor and backstory, though, specifically on how and why the bard is so nasty.
> 
> And how the heck did you have the time to do all of this?!    I barely had enough time to type my entry, let alone stat out my villain.   You've even got a map in there, for crying out loud!  Your time management skills are impeccable.  Best of luck to you, sir![/SBLOCK]



Like I said... "almost".  Considering that a full paragraph was spent trashing the only edition of the game I know well, I was pretty worried, basically figured that I was doomed regardless.

[SBLOCK]You entry is good too.  I felt that you made a better use of the troll ingredient than I did, and the river delta, for that matter.

As far as time management, I was able to get most of it typed up when I was watching football.  The basic idea came to me as soon as I saw the ingredients (and looked up what Ioun Stones are).  I figured that the wiki entry for Ioun Stones that I saw was purely 3rd Edition, and I was tempted to come up with some new kind of magic item, but I liked what I read about them.  I had planned on doing more with the Troll, and expanding out the river travel, but those things had to fall by the wayside.  I really feel that my whole entry is going to leveraged on the villain - which is why I took the time to make a stat block for him.[/SBLOCK]


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## Nifft (Oct 19, 2009)

Regarding edition stuff... there is an ioun stone in the 4e PHB, several others in 4e supplements, and they've been in D&D (in basically the same form) since 1e.

Cheers, -- N


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## CleverNickName (Oct 19, 2009)

Atras said:


> Like I said... "almost".  Considering that a full paragraph was spent trashing the only edition of the game I know well, I was pretty worried, basically figured that I was doomed regardless.
> 
> [SBLOCK]You entry is good too.  I felt that you made a better use of the troll ingredient than I did, and the river delta, for that matter.
> 
> As far as time management, I was able to get most of it typed up when I was watching football.  The basic idea came to me as soon as I saw the ingredients (and looked up what Ioun Stones are).  I figured that the wiki entry for Ioun Stones that I saw was purely 3rd Edition, and I was tempted to come up with some new kind of magic item, but I liked what I read about them.  I had planned on doing more with the Troll, and expanding out the river travel, but those things had to fall by the wayside.  I really feel that my whole entry is going to leveraged on the villain - which is why I took the time to make a stat block for him.[/SBLOCK]



[SBLOCK]I'm not very familiar with 4E; I only had the books for a month or so.  But I thought I remembered something about ioun stones being in there.  EDIT: Ninja'd by Nifft.

For what it's worth, I would have loved to see you create a custom magic item on the fly for 4E, using a 3E magic item as inspiration.  That would demonstrate a flexibility and familiarity with the elements that not all DMs have...a very Iron DMish trait.[/SBLOCK]


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## Wicht (Oct 19, 2009)

Atras said:


> Took me a lot longer to actually get the whole thing on paper than I thought, but mine is up now.  It is really pure 4E, so if you don't like 4E, just give it a FAIL and move on.





It seems to me that participlants should refrain from thinking this way and even more from commenting this way.  Now if you lose you're going to wonder whether it was the edition, or the fact you made the judge irritated at you.  If you win its not a problem for you but you're going to make the other guy wonder whether it was because the judge tried too hard not to show favoritism.  On the whole it seems a bad idea to drag any aspect of the edition war into this contest.  Just assumet he judges will do the best they can in their own way.


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## Atras (Oct 19, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Regarding edition stuff... there is an ioun stone in the 4e PHB, several others in 4e supplements, and they've been in D&D (in basically the same form) since 1e.
> 
> Cheers, -- N



That's hilarious that I didn't even notice them in the PHB - thanks for pointing them out.  I haven't hit anything near Epic tier, and so haven't looked at such high level items.  I prefer the items I used anyway - even if they are a little overpowered for the level they are being used at.



> It seems to me that participants should refrain from thinking this way and even more from commenting this way. Now if you lose you're going to wonder whether it was the edition, or the fact you made the judge irritated at you. If you win its not a problem for you but you're going to make the other guy wonder whether it was because the judge tried too hard not to show favoritism. *On the whole it seems a bad idea to drag any aspect of the edition war into this contest.* Just assume the judges will do the best they can in their own way.



Yeah, I really can't disagree with any of this.  Despite my fear with phoamslinger's bias blurb, I felt that he did a good job judging the round in which his edition-slam appeared.  I just expressed my concern about edition in reference to his (per your bolded line) and put up what I came up with per the line following it.  I have no doubt that, win or lose, phoamslinger will describe why the winner and loser are chosen.  I just feel bad about kicking up all of this noise with a poor attempt at being self-deprecatory.


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## humble minion (Oct 19, 2009)

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-2.html#post4968074

Mine's up.  Tough group of ingredients, but I think I got something mostly functional.  My main concern is that it's really looooong....


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## phoamslinger (Oct 19, 2009)

judgement for *Rechan* vs *Atras* is done (and has a longer word count than either).

edit: without reading the last dozen posts since Atras' FAIL request.  and now, having just read them,  I'm really curious what you all think...


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## Atras (Oct 19, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> judgement for *Rechan* vs *Atras* is done (and has a longer word count than either).



Thank you for the judgment, and for forgiving my use of 4E ,  I'm glad to know that it didn't disqualify me.  I felt that I really mis-used the River Delta, and when I re-read my adventure I noticed that I left out a few of the details that I had in mind that would have gone a long way to explaining some of the connections.

I saw the Bard as a Pied Piper archetype, so I wanted him to demand a harsh payment for his service.  As soon as I went down that path, I forgot to leave the hints that he was the one to plant the Troll in the first place.  Keeping the foot handy would let him drop it off in another town and collect more victims.  Keeping the Troll handy would let him send the Troll back or re-seed if some pesky heroes came along and took care of the situation without him.  I mostly focused on the singing part of a Bardic repertoire to tie in with the Pied Piper, but I gave him some story telling attack powers, and should have put something in about him using acrobatics to avoid his traps when fighting.

I had hoped to make the Skill Challenge a more important part of the adventure, but I just didn't have the time to do much more with it than I did.  This is something that I will work on if I make this into a Living Forgotten Realms adventure for my local players.

It was fun, round 2, I'm sure, will be much harder.  Thanks for the competition, Rechan.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 19, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Regarding edition stuff... there is an ioun stone in the 4e PHB, several others in 4e supplements, and they've been in D&D (in basically the same form) since 1e.





actually, I've been house ruling them almost all the way back to 1e.  when you find or buy them, they are gemstones, but when you put them in orbit they become little sparks of colored light, orbiting your head.  they become gems again and fall to the ground when you die.  or the wearer can voluntarily take them off.

otherwise it would logically be too easy a sleight of hand check or Dex/ Reflex check to do a disarm against them.  or so I've always figured.

plus having colored magical lights orbiting your head and granting bonuses is a cool visual.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 19, 2009)

Wicht said:


> It seems to me that *participlants *should refrain from thinking this way and even more from commenting this way.




Definitely want to avoid getting entangled in this kind of argument. Even if you just want to bark at the judges, this sort of criticism has a way of taking root and before you know it, you're way off in the weeds. Take Wicht's advice and just leaf it alone.


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## Wicht (Oct 19, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> and now, ...  I'm really curious what you all think...





I like Rechan's better.  I though Atras's adventure was a  fairly straightforward monster hunt without much to differentiate it from other "kidnapped maiden" stories.  I don't do 4e but I am left wondering how a bard becomes a powerful necromancer in order to have undead attacking on his behalf.  The troll seemed very tacked on to me and hardly integral to the adventure.   

Rechans had some weaknesses.  I'm used to trolls being semi-animilistic monsters so their agreement with the village is a bit contrived for me and I do wonder why the cleric couldn't heal the third troll.  I didn't know who Ioun was but assumed it was some sort of saint or diety.  I thought the Ioun stone was really Rechan's weakest ingredient.

But if I ran both of these, I am pretty sure the adventure that would be remember 6 months later by the players would be Rechans, not Atras'.  

More criticism than I would normally volunteer but the judge did ask for it.


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## Wicht (Oct 19, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> Definitely want to avoid getting entangled in this kind of argument. Even if you just want to bark at the judges, this sort of criticism has a way of taking root and before you know it, you're way off in the weeds. Take Wicht's advice and just leaf it alone.




Heh.


----------



## Helena Real (Oct 19, 2009)

Sorry for not having posted anything about the matches so far, but I hadn't had enough time to read them all thoroughly.

I have a question, when is my round supposed to begin? According to a calendar that I can't find now, I was supposed to receive my ingredients today Oct. 19, but it seems that we're still on the previous match.

Best regards,

Felipe.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 19, 2009)

I've been maintaining an unofficial schedule over on Page 4 of this thread (link.)  There was some scheduling difficulties last week, but I think we got them all Iron'd (ahem) out.

Looks like you are up for tomorrow's match.  But like I said, this is an unofficial schedule.  Nifft is the event coordinator.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 19, 2009)

Wicht said:


> I like Rechan's better.  I though Atras's adventure was a  fairly straightforward monster hunt without much to differentiate it from other "kidnapped maiden" stories.  I don't do 4e but I am left wondering how a bard becomes a powerful necromancer in order to have undead attacking on his behalf.  The troll seemed very tacked on to me and hardly integral to the adventure.
> 
> Rechans had some weaknesses.  I'm used to trolls being semi-animilistic monsters so their agreement with the village is a bit contrived for me and I do wonder why the cleric couldn't heal the third troll.  I didn't know who Ioun was but assumed it was some sort of saint or diety.  I thought the Ioun stone was really Rechan's weakest ingredient.
> 
> ...




I felt that with both entries:

[sblock]the River Deltas were just there.  
both Bedridden Trolls were weak or very replacable, once the acid add-on keeping them in bed was eliminated.  
Rechan had a stronger Bard, but Atras evoked a more Monstrous response; but still a slight edge went to Rechan there.  

but Rechan's Slayings, while frightening in the 21st century today, wouldn't be that impressive in a D&D world as opposed to the idea of one irritated high level adventurer massacring an entire town.
and Atras' Feet (regardless of how or where they came from; I wouldn't double tap a negative into Severed Feet from a bad use of Bard - maybe a cross class Necro feat would have been appropriate?) were much more integral to the entire story as were his Stones.
Rechan's Stone was the weakest of all in either entrly and hit his adventure almost as negative points since it could have been completely eliminated and the story would have remained totally unchanged (with the Abbot simply recommending the players' course of action).  so just counting on a item by item basis, as well as my overall feelings at the end, I felt Atras did the better job...[/sblock]

...but there was room for lots of improvement on both of them.  I would recommend in the future that you NOT skimp on word count if it's necessary to fully convey the story you're trying to tell.  single spaced typed, Rechan's was three pages, Atras' was four.  my judgement of the two ran five pages, plus.


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## Helena Real (Oct 19, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I've been maintaining an unofficial schedule over on Page 4 of this thread (link.)  There was some scheduling difficulties last week, but I think we got them all Iron'd (ahem) out.
> 
> Looks like you are up for tomorrow's match.  But like I said, this is an unofficial schedule.  Nifft is the event coordinator.




Thanks for your reply!

Eagerly awaiting for my match,

Felipe.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 20, 2009)

Looks like my judging duties have come around again for round 7, Felipe_real and Sparky.  

I see Felipe, Sparky, are you around?  How do you guys feel about a noon EST start tomorrow? 

-rg


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## Helena Real (Oct 20, 2009)

For me sounds like a quite good time.

Best regards,

Felipe.


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## Nifft (Oct 20, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> But like I said, this is an unofficial schedule.  Nifft is the event coordinator.



 I think of myself as a lazy coordinator, but with luck, history will remember me as "lazy fair".

Cheers, -- N


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## Sparky (Oct 20, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Looks like my judging duties have come around again for round 7, Felipe_real and Sparky.
> 
> I see Felipe, Sparky, are you around? How do you guys feel about a noon EST start tomorrow?
> 
> -rg




Ima put on my DMin' hat.


----------



## Radiating Gnome (Oct 20, 2009)

Awesome.  I'll try to post a bit before noon EST to make sure you're both ready for action, then I'll post the list.  

-j


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## Sparky (Oct 20, 2009)

I probably won't get to my PC until around 1 or 2 PM EST. For my part, post the ingredients at noon, I'm fine with that.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 20, 2009)

Nifft said:


> I think of myself as a lazy coordinator, but with luck, history will remember me as "lazy fair".



So, Nifft...you gonna participate in the next Iron DM challenge?


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## Thasmodious (Oct 20, 2009)

Hey, just a quick update on my entry, or possible lack of one.  I had to take my wife to the ER today, she woke up with severe pain.  Turns out to be a large kidney stone. We spent all day at the hospital and she's back home on pain meds.  I got the ingredients late Sunday and made some notes, found a direction.  I got to work on things just a bit tonight, but am wiped out in general.  If all goes well, I should be able to find a small block of time to write it  up before the deadline today.  This post is in case I don't make the deadline, so our judge isn't left wondering what is going on.


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## humble minion (Oct 20, 2009)

Speaking as your opponent, Thasmodius, I don't mind if you get a bit of extra time to write something up given the circumstances...

(All the best to your wife)


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## Nifft (Oct 20, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> So, Nifft...you gonna participate in the next Iron DM challenge?



 It's likely. (In Perfectland, I'd even get to participate as a contestant!)



Thasmodious said:


> Hey, just a quick update on my entry, or possible lack of one.  I had to take my wife to the ER today, she woke up with severe pain.  Turns out to be a large kidney stone. We spent all day at the hospital and she's back home on pain meds.  I got the ingredients late Sunday and made some notes, found a direction.  I got to work on things just a bit tonight, but am wiped out in general.  If all goes well, I should be able to find a small block of time to write it  up before the deadline today.  This post is in case I don't make the deadline, so our judge isn't left wondering what is going on.



 You won't be holding up the next match, or the next round, so take another couple of hours if you need it.

The earliest I'll be able to judge is around midnight tonight anyway.

Best wishes, -- N


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## phoamslinger (Oct 20, 2009)

Round 1, Match 8, ElectricDragon and Iron Sky

I'm going to be offline for most of Wednesday, so if you want i can either give you your set of ingredients Wednesday evening around 8pm or Thursday around noon.  does one work better or worse for you guys?


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 20, 2009)

Round 7, Felipe_Real vs. Sparky . . . your ingredients have been posted.  

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-2.html#post4969334

Please post to this thread when you get them so I can stop worrying that someone is dead in a ditch, or worse, playing World of Warcraft.


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## Sparky (Oct 20, 2009)

I've seen the ingredients.


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## Iron Sky (Oct 20, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> Round 1, Match 8, ElectricDragon and Iron Sky
> 
> I'm going to be offline for most of Wednesday, so if you want i can either give you your set of ingredients Wednesday evening around 8pm or Thursday around noon.  does one work better or worse for you guys?




Either is fine for me since I'm home sick with the swine flu.  If my roommate is any judge, I'll be out this whole week, so whenever works for me.


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## Helena Real (Oct 20, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Round 7, Felipe_Real vs. Sparky . . . your ingredients have been posted.
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-2.html#post4969334
> 
> Please post to this thread when you get them so I can stop worrying that someone is dead in a ditch, or worse, playing World of Warcraft.




Jajajaja... OK, so confirmed: I've seen the ingredients!

A quick question, what is the maximum amount of words allowed?

Best regards,

Felipe.


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## Nifft (Oct 20, 2009)

Felipe_Real said:


> A quick question, what is the maximum amount of words allowed?



 There is no limit, except "don't annoy the judge".

Look at some of the earlier entries and the judgments handed down -- some got chided for running long, some got chided for skimping on detail.

I'd say three pages (single-spaced) is a decent average, but I'm not your judge, so _caveat lector_.

Cheers, -- N


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 20, 2009)

In some versions of Iron DM, word counts limits have been created, but I'm not aware of any on this particular competition.  So, I don't think there's an artificial limit.  Time itself is enough of a limiting factor.  

That said, we've had some loooong entries, and I am not of the opinion that length is better, necessarily.  Take it easy on your judges . . . . we're old and fall asleep easily.


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## Thasmodious (Oct 21, 2009)

Nifft, humble minion, thank you both.  I was able to get it done with a bit of extra time while not neglecting my family.  

I certainly wish I had another day for a rewrite or two, brevity is not a skill I possess and I have to wrestle it in.  But, it's up


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## Nifft (Oct 21, 2009)

Thasmodious said:


> Nifft, humble minion, thank you both.  I was able to get it done with a bit of extra time while not neglecting my family.
> 
> I certainly wish I had another day for a rewrite or two, brevity is not a skill I possess and I have to wrestle it in.  But, it's up



 Excellent.

To be fair, those things are hard for everyone, and that's why this is a contest of IRON DMs. 

Off to the other thread, -- N


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## ElectricDragon (Oct 21, 2009)

Either time is okay with me too. I'll check in at both times (if necessary).

Ciao,
Dave

Edit: Ooo! Page 13, my lucky number.


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## humble minion (Oct 21, 2009)

Really like the set of ingredients for round 7.  Very nice.

Regarding mine...

[sblock]
I really hope the judgement goes up soon, because every time I look at my entry I get more dissatisfied!

I probably should have tried to find some more time for editing.  I dunno if I could have cut the size down all that much, but there's a few bits and pieces that have minor logical holes as written and I could close them up with a sentence or two.  Plus it's more than a bit disorganised in places - the stuff about Girael targeting Merbenna should have been in the description of the performance, for instance, and there were a few other structural issues like this.  And a few less parentheses would probably be a worthy goal to aim at as well...

Critical hits is by far my weakest ingredient - Thasmodious did much more with it than me, but I hamstrung myself by using a largely non-combat plot when one of the ingredients was inherently combat-related.  We both made the elf-tree-fruit connection.  Both of our mayors could have been more mayoral - here's one place i'd like to go back and add another sentence or two.  I really like Thas's stellar pathway (particularly in light of the nature of the 4e Far Realm), but I reckon mine was ok.  I may be biased, but I preferred my puppet though!  

Could go either way I think.  Thasmodious's scope and nicely done Far-Realm-corrupted-lost-city vibe vs my attempt at a smaller, immersive plot with memorable NPCs and the best Rat Bastardliness I could come up in the make-a-divination-proof-mystery stakes.   

Win or lose, I'm not going to do a mystery-type submission like this if I can avoid it in future (whether it be next round or next competition).  Having to detail all the little clues etc in useful detail really bloated the word count ridiculously, and I'd expect to lose based on that alone if Thas hadn't come up with something almost as long.
[/sblock]


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 21, 2009)

Quick FYI for the judges-- I am travelling today, and I might not have internet access until probably the start of next week.


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## Nifft (Oct 21, 2009)

Judgment is up: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-3.html#post4970792


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## CleverNickName (Oct 21, 2009)

Nifft's judgement is up, and Thasmodius prevails.[SBLOCK=But...]...I liked humble minion's entry best.  I agree on Nifft's assessment of the use of ingredients, but I thought that humble minion had a stronger plot.  And I always appreciate a strong plot in any adventure.

I'm probably just speaking from my own personal preferences, though.  I like to tell a story; I like having heroes and villains, conflicts and resolutions.  I like things to happen for a reason.  HM's entry has some plot issues, but it comes closest to this.

That's not to say that there is anything wrong with Thasmodius's entry.  It is a solid adventure and it earned its victory.  I guess I'm just not used to an open-ended style of game.[/SBLOCK]
Thanks for the hard work, guys.  One more match, and we head into the Semi-Finals!


----------



## Nifft (Oct 21, 2009)

CleverNickName: I agree with you, especially about the strength of the plot. But here's the thing: the PCs need to be *in* the plot, it can't just be something that happens around them. I think humble minion had a better plot -- and IMHO it made for a great read! -- but it happened in spite of the PCs, and worse, it happened at the expense of the ingredients.

The ingredients are king. Downplay them and you will not win.

Similarly, the PCs are the stars. If they don't matter to the plot, it's not a plot I can use.

There are excellent parts of humble minion's entry that I do plan on stealing, but I will have to work to adapt them. If the big vampire were important to the PCs, or the fruit were important and its supply being threatened was important ... or something. As plots go, it's a great story -- but not a great adventure.

IMHO, awesome mysteries should make PCs go "OH CRAP!" and change their plans upon revelation.

Anyway, that's my thoughts on the subject. I think both entries had many strengths -- particularly the cleverness of humble minion's interpretation -- but in the end, the one that best used the ingredients won.

Cheers, -- N


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## CleverNickName (Oct 21, 2009)

Nifft said:


> CleverNickName: I agree with you, especially about the strength of the plot. But here's the thing: the PCs need to be *in* the plot, it can't just be something that happens around them. I think humble minion had a better plot -- and IMHO it made for a great read! -- but it happened in spite of the PCs, and worse, it happened at the expense of the ingredients.
> 
> The ingredients are king. Downplay them and you will not win.
> 
> ...



**frantically taking notes, mumbling to himself**


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## humble minion (Oct 21, 2009)

[sblock]
Can't really argue with the judgement myself.  I mentioned above that Critical Hits was always my weakest ingredient, though i would contend that the 'critics' I referred to were the members of the public who were demanding the bards let Kerreth perform at the Grand Theatre.  But I should have made that clearer, but it still doesn't make it a particularly strong ingredient use.  Same with the Mace of Blood - it's an undeniably evil weapon, and the fact that Laughingstream wields it was meant to make the PCs more inclined to be suspicious of him.  But again, I didn't make that clear in the entry (it all made sense in my head!), and the ingredient is used as a clue rather than a core element of the adventure.

I'm a bit confused by the judgement on the Stellar Pathway - I think Nifft and I might have gotten our wires crossed.  The Twilight Tree only exists between dusk and dawn (pretty sure I mentioned that twice...), so it's always going to be night there.  Otherwise Girael wouldn't have been able to maintain his facade of non-vampireness for so long, if nothing else!

The linearity and player disinvolvement are very legitimate criticisms though (to a point - nothing stops a PC bard who wants to perform at the Theatre!), during the early stages of the adventure in particular, before the theatre fire.  I was a bit concerned about that at the time, but figured that while PCs are INVOLVED in the adventure at this stage, they're not DRIVING it, so there wasn't a lot I could think of to do.
[/sblock]
Good win to Thasmodious, who in the final analysis used the ingredients better than I did, which is the whole point of Iron DM!  I'll be back, better and more iron-y, next time...


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## phoamslinger (Oct 22, 2009)

ok, ElectricDragon and Iron Sky,  

I will put them up tomorrow (Thursday) at noon.  I'm just on for a couple of minutes right now and won't have access again till late tonight.  but noon tomorrow will work fine.

-ph


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## ElectricDragon (Oct 22, 2009)

Fine, noon tomorrow then. I still have one nail to bite til then...

Ciao,
Dave


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## Thasmodious (Oct 22, 2009)

I enjoyed the contest, humble minion, and I really liked your entry, it oozed flavor and I love urban adventures.  I've added a few bits to my DM file.  On to some thoughts/comments:

[sblock]One of those bits is humble's use of the magic fruit.  I love the idea of a fruit stand selling fruit 'potions' in an elven district.  That just oozes flavor.  It really made me want to see this orchard that is so infused with elvish magic that the trees bear such fruit.  I imagine that such an orchard would be rife with adventuring possibilities.  

I agree with everything Nifft said about my entry.  Had I gotten in a rewrite or two, a few of those issues would have been fixed (I hope), especially the rambling, which I was well aware of.  I needed to organize it differently.  In my head, the adventure started as a bit more straight-forward, plotted adventure, but then I didn't want to ignore the whole city, where much nightmarish fun could be had, and just send them straight to the tree.  So halfway through it turned into a site-based adventure, which is why I went with the notes on expanding it, but point well taken there, Nifft.  

Regarding Sigil showing up in my story, that's what my brain does to me sometimes.  I pictured someone saying "why is there a portal that conveniently leads back to the material plane when the location has been torn from space and time?"  And my answer was that Sigil leads everywhere, so it was a handy reason.  It was completely superfluous and distracting.  The "stellar" part was meant to simply be the star gate like passage (I pictured the star gate jump in 2001 but with lots of tentacles and space worms, which is why it ended in a lavish bedroom).

CleverNickname, as I say above, it was originally a bit more plot-driven in my head and morphed into a more open adventure.  But I do have to say I really love, as a DM, just setting the PCs loose in a place and letting them find some plot, they almost always surprise me and I enjoy winging a lot of the actual game time and then thinking through the week until next session on how to tie some of the things the PCs are getting up to to threads of meta-plot bouncing around my notebook.[/sblock]

Like others have said, I'd really recommend those following the competition who are not participating to join the next one.  It is loads of fun, the judges criticism is a level of feedback on your strengths and weaknesses that you usually don't get from your players or even if you start a thread and ask for it.


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## Nifft (Oct 22, 2009)

humble minion said:


> [sblock]I'm a bit confused by the judgement on the Stellar Pathway - I think Nifft and I might have gotten our wires crossed.  The Twilight Tree only exists between dusk and dawn (pretty sure I mentioned that twice...), so it's always going to be night there.[/sblock]
> Good win to Thasmodious, who in the final analysis used the ingredients better than I did, which is the whole point of Iron DM!  I'll be back, better and more iron-y, next time...



 Ah, yes, that's purely my mistake. Sorry for that. (The additional 3 points in your favor wouldn't have tipped the match, but that's no excuse for my misinterpretation.)

Thank you, -- N


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## humble minion (Oct 22, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Ah, yes, that's purely my mistake. Sorry for that. (The additional 3 points in your favor wouldn't have tipped the match, but that's no excuse for my misinterpretation.)
> 
> Thank you, -- N




Cheers Nifft, good to know I wasn't going completely mad there...

Thanks to you and to Thasmodious (I'm definitely going to find some way to use that Starry Pathway of yours - really memorable and creepy scene).  I enjoyed the match, and look forward to following the rest of the competition.

(Insert the obligatory "Curse you, next time I shall prevail!" etc etc etc, here...)


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## Iron Sky (Oct 22, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> ok, ElectricDragon and Iron Sky,
> 
> I will put them up tomorrow (Thursday) at noon.  I'm just on for a couple of minutes right now and won't have access again till late tonight.  but noon tomorrow will work fine.
> 
> -ph




Roger.

Edit: In a side note, humble minion, I read through yours and Thasmodious's adventures (so I would have some idea of what is expected for this) and I agree with Nifft that it was an awesome read.  I got so caught up in the story that I forgot I was trying to analyze it from an adventure perspective.

Thasmodious, I really dug your adventure too, especially the image that came to mind when you described Tir Tara.  Both the battle in the Stellar Gateway and the final battle with the tree seemed awesome.


Got me looking forward to my own adventure, though I'll admit I'm a touch worried since, aside from one campaign I ran back in the twilight days of 2e, 90% of my games have been 90% ad-libbed.  The caliber of your posts at least gives me an idea of what's expected!


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## Sparky (Oct 22, 2009)

My entry is posted (and I note Felipe_Real's is posted as well).


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## phoamslinger (Oct 22, 2009)

the ingredients for Iron Sky vs ElectricDragon are posted.


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## Nifft (Oct 22, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> Quick FYI for the judges-- I am travelling today, and I might not have internet access until probably the start of next week.



 Thanks Wulf.

Other Winners -- please pipe up if you will be around this weekend.

Thanks, -- N


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## Atras (Oct 22, 2009)

Should be easy enough to get ingredients this weekend.


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## Nifft (Oct 22, 2009)

I'm a bit new at this, so I neglected to mention that *editing entries after posting is prohibited*. Going forward we're going to be strict about this.

You can benefit from minimal formatting: the less formatting you use, the fewer formatting mistakes you'll make.


 Use only the formatting you need.
 Use the Preview Post feature.
 Take a deep breath and proofread it one last time!

Thanks, -- N


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## Sparky (Oct 22, 2009)

You know, I just realized...

[sblock]...that I forgot to attach the jpgs I made (in Adventure Tools) of the two versions of my villain. The first is the most important... it explains the powers that she uses throughout the adventure that I reference by name but don't really explain _anywhere else_. Daggumit.

Ah well.[/sblock]


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## Nifft (Oct 22, 2009)

Sparky said:


> You know, I just realized...
> 
> [sblock]...that I forgot to attach the jpgs I made (in Adventure Tools) of the two versions of my villain. The first is the most important... it explains the powers that she uses throughout the adventure that I reference by name but don't really explain _anywhere else_. Daggumit.
> 
> Ah well.[/sblock]



 Editing is prohibited, but posting more stuff in the thread is allowed. Of course, the judge is also allowed to *utterly ignore* anything that's not in the main post, or he may have read your entry & written his judgment already.

At worst, it won't help, but it can't hurt.

Cheers, -- N


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## Sparky (Oct 22, 2009)

Thanks, Nifft, I didn't know that.


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 22, 2009)

I'll be around this weekend.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 23, 2009)

I will be around this weekend, as well.


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## Wik (Oct 23, 2009)

Yeah, I'm around, too.  Saturday is better than sunday, but I can do either.


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## Thasmodious (Oct 23, 2009)

Ditto on the around-ness.


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## Iron Sky (Oct 23, 2009)

My adventure is posted.  If you're going to read it, grab a cup of something hot and a snack, it weighs in at _12_ pages long, by my word processor's count.

Good thing I was home sick today.  Looked up the ingredients as soon as I got up (yay for sleeping in!) and had them spinning through my head all day.  Writing up the outline only took about an hour, but getting it all written up in adventure format took a surprisingly long time.

The whole thing was a blast though, haven't had this many ideas and this much creative energy flowing through me in weeks!

I just hope the next one I do doesn't have quite so many ideas(whether it's in this challenge or the next)... I might not have a full day to work on it.


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## Nifft (Oct 23, 2009)

Woah, 12 pages is long...

- - -

*InVinoVeritas* and *CleverNickName*, let's kick off round 2 starting Saturday morning.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 23, 2009)

Iron Sky said:


> My adventure is posted. it weighs in at _12_ pages long, by my word processor's count.




did you forget to put the encounters in there?  just idle judge-like curiosity


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## CleverNickName (Oct 23, 2009)

Nifft said:


> *InVinoVeritas* and *CleverNickName*, let's kick off round 2 starting Saturday morning.



That sounds good.  Around what time?  (Not that it matters; I just need to know when to check the board.)


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## Iron Sky (Oct 23, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> did you forget to put the encounters in there?  just idle judge-like curiosity




I posted at the bottom that the encounters were left out due to length.  Hopefully, what the rough idea of the fights should be at least somewhat evident by the context (Epic level undead, Flying lich with a bow, Golems, fighting in dreams, etc).  It was also 4am by the time I posted and I may not have been thinking clearly.

Either way, it's too late now to change anything (no edit rule and all) - isn't it?  I have the encounters all written out, but it's another couple pages... and that's without all the high-paragon/low-epic custom-monster stat blocks that would take up another eight pages...  and _that_ is without whipping up the actual encounter maps that would take up another few pages...


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## Nifft (Oct 23, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> That sounds good.  Around what time?  (Not that it matters; I just need to know when to check the board.)



 I'm going to aim for 9:AM, but I may sleep late. Before noon for sure.

Cheers, -- N


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 23, 2009)

Round 7 judgement posted.  

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-3.html#post4971950


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## Wik (Oct 23, 2009)

Just to be clear - I'm waiting for Wulf to come back, correct?  Haven't been overlooked?


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## Nifft (Oct 23, 2009)

Wik said:


> Just to be clear - I'm waiting for Wulf to come back, correct?  Haven't been overlooked?



 For no specific reason, I picked the two quickest replies for the first match of round 2. If Wulf were around this weekend, we'd likely have started with Wulf v InVinoVeritas (via implicit order-by-signup-time). You're not forgotten.

Cheers, -- N


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## Wik (Oct 23, 2009)

Ah, okay.  I had been under the assumption that I'd be playing Wulf in round two.  Good to know that may not be the case (the guy's an Iron GM Vet!)


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## Helena Real (Oct 23, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Round 7 judgement posted.
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-3.html#post4971950




First of all, thanks for the judgment. I really enjoyed participating in this competition and although some external factors influenced in my somehow "spartanish" entry (I really didn't have as much time as I would like to have, so I ignored what I thought were "trifles" - like describing that the dagger was _a flying dagger_ and emphasizing the overall importance of each ingredient) I had the impression that the entry was good, nevertheless.

I congratulate Sparky for his victory, and hope to come back to some other competition and join in.

Finally, I'd like to give my thanks to RadiatingGnome for his kind words at the end of the judgment. I really do appreciate his compliments (although I'm an English Literature Major and I'm _supposed _to be able to express myself properly in English), and just hope to participate in another competition of this type.

Best regards and good luck to all of you, quaterfinalists,

Felipe.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 23, 2009)

Wow.  I'm going to have to really crank the dial on tomorrow's batch of ingredients.  This is the second time that I have been warned,_ by name_, about properly using the ingredients.

Hey, I deserve it.  I totally hand-waved the *Three Wishes*, and then relied on heavy creative interpretation to explain the *Soaking Backpack.*  I only won by a very thin margin, and I get the feeling that the judges are expecting me to make up for that in the next round.  Am I right?


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## Sparky (Oct 23, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> Round 7 judgement posted.
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-3.html#post4971950




Ouch. I expected to lose for all the reasons you highlight RG. I didn't expect winning to feel worse.  

Whee! Let's go Round 2.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 24, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Wow.  I'm going to have to really crank the dial on tomorrow's batch of ingredients.  This is the second time that I have been warned,_ by name_, about properly using the ingredients.
> 
> Hey, I deserve it.  I totally hand-waved the *Three Wishes*, and then relied on heavy creative interpretation to explain the *Soaking Backpack.*  I only won by a very thin margin, and I get the feeling that the judges are expecting me to make up for that in the next round.  Am I right?




LOL.  Sorry, didn't mean to kick you around the block an extra time . . . I was just worried that I'd created some bad expectations.  

-rg


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## Sparky (Oct 24, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> LOL. Sorry, didn't mean to kick you around the block an extra time . . . I was just worried that I'd created some bad expectations.
> 
> -rg




You didn't create any false expectations. I knew my entry was flawed, but it was the concept that I couldn't get out of my head, so I rode it out to shut it up. 

I should have gone with the one that had a corrupt noble using the Jar of Steam as his sauna, or the one where the PCs were trapped in the walls of a house and 'haunted' it, or the one where the players had to temporarily take on the duties of the God of Plague... but no, the stupid harpy wouldn't leave me alone. 

Nag, nag, nag. 

Shut up, harpy!

That's what I'll tell her next time.

Stupid harpy.


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## Wik (Oct 24, 2009)

I hear ya, Sparky.  For my entry, I kept wanting to make it a DARK SUN module.  My big problem, though, was how to put a swamp in the setting without it seeming fake and contrived.  And the more I tried, the more it felt hashed-together.

But my Vault was so cool!  I mean, a Mekillot-pulled bank, guarded by traders and templars, that has to be raided by the PCs?  How cool is that?

I shut the idea up by writing it for about a page, knowing full well I wasn't going to go with it.  Just to clear my head and get to "real" work.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 24, 2009)

Wik said:


> I hear ya, Sparky.  For my entry, I kept wanting to make it a DARK SUN module.  My big problem, though, was how to put a swamp in the setting without it seeming fake and contrived.  And the more I tried, the more it felt hashed-together.



_"The part of the story that you desperately want to keep more than anything, is probably the first thing you need to edit out."_  -my creative writing professor

When I saw that there was a "plantation" as one of my ingredients, my brain immediately went to Ravenloft for some reason.  I had this mental image of a vampire slave master, the quintessential southern gentleman who controls his estate, influences politics, and enslaves the locals from a mansion overlooking the banana groves.  It was so awesome, it was all I could think about.

But unfortunately, there was no vampire on my list of ingredients.  And a vampire is the culinary equivalent of fish oil...there is just no subtle way to use it.  Add even the tiniest drop, and everything starts tasting like an Anne Rice novel.

Having Strahd's southern cousin in the adventure would have pulled too much focus from the other ingredients.  I needed the ogre bodyguard and the elemental weirds to be in the spotlight.  So in the end, though it broke my heart to do it, I had to cut the vampire.


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## Iron Sky (Oct 24, 2009)

I appended an Encounter section after my original post to go into more detail with the individual encounters.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 24, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> LOL.  Sorry, didn't mean to kick you around the block an extra time . . . I was just worried that I'd created some bad expectations.



No worries mate.  I'm getting a Nifft-tastic list of ingredients tomorrow, and I can use all of the advice (and reminders) I can get.  Who would have thought that something as simple and cliche as "three wishes" could cause such trouble?


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## phoamslinger (Oct 24, 2009)

I'm offline the next two days, so I probably won't be able to put in a place saver post.  my judgement will come probably on Monday.

question:

I had an idea for one of the previous sets of ingredients that I think covers the bases of what would make a good Iron DM entry (and it shows _why_ it makes a good entry).  I can post said entry (like the harpy, it just wouldn't go away, so I wrote it up yesterday in case I ever need a side trek) on this thread if there is interest.  it would at least give some of the newer players a couple of pointers. 

let me know.

-ph


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## ElectricDragon (Oct 24, 2009)

My submission is up, I don't know how to link it so, I guess you have to find it yourself.

Ciao,
Dave


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## Nifft (Oct 24, 2009)

InVinoVeritas and CleverNickName, your ingredients are posted.


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## Nifft (Oct 24, 2009)

ElectricDragon said:


> My submission is up, I don't know how to link it so, I guess you have to find it yourself.



 On the upper-right corner of every post, next to the post number, is a link in parens ("permalink").

That's a link directly to that post.

Here's yours: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-round-1-all-matches-3.html#post4973720

Cheers, -- N


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## Thasmodious (Oct 24, 2009)

Good luck in round 2, everybody.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 24, 2009)

Woah.  That's quite a random list, Nifft.  

I'm on it.


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 24, 2009)

Thanks for the ingredients! Now to build...


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 25, 2009)

Submission is up.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 26, 2009)

My entry is posted.

I gotta say...when I first saw that list of ingredients, my heart sank.  I had no idea how on earth I was going to get everything linked together in less than a million words.  But the more I worked with them, the more I enjoyed them, and things started coming together in my head.

I hope they came together on the page, too.


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 26, 2009)

Yeah, it's a great set of ingredients, since you don't normally think about what they are at first, but put together, you can tell some great stories.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 26, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> Yeah, it's a great set of ingredients, since you don't normally think about what they are at first, but put together, you can tell some great stories.



[SBLOCK=In case judges are lurking about...]I really like how you used the combination of different feather tokens in your adventure.  That was the part that was really giving me fits: I couldn't figure out how to get five different types of feather tokens to work in my story without it feeling forced.  You really strung the feathers together in a logical way.

Ultimately, I decided to create a new kind of token and place five of them in a treasure hoard.  Some might say this was innovative, but others might call it a cop-out.  

I think my adventure is less useful than yours, as well.  Sure, I have lots of Egyptian flavor going on, but that's not really all that useful in most boxed adventure settings.  Yours is much easier to just drop in.

Oh well.  I hope that what I lack in feathers and versatility, I make up for in beetles and creativity.  I really tried to pull out all of the stops here, using the ingredients as they were given (use the eel, instead of just making an eel-shaped cake.)

Best of luck to you, sir!  It is always a pleasure reading your work.[/SBLOCK]


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 26, 2009)

I am home.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 27, 2009)

All right, it's time to find contestants for the second match of round two.  Who's going to be ready to go tomorrow at noon?


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 27, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> All right, it's time to find contestants for the second match of round two.  Who's going to be ready to go tomorrow at noon?



Sure.


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## Thasmodious (Oct 27, 2009)

I'm ready to go.  Let's DO THIS!


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## Wik (Oct 27, 2009)

Yeah, I'm ready whenever.  Sooner better than later!


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## phoamslinger (Oct 27, 2009)

I'll be posting a judging tomorrow on the 8th match.  it was a hard weekend and I've been mostly recovering from it today.


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## Nifft (Oct 27, 2009)

r2m1 judgment posted.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 27, 2009)

Okay, R2m2 match will be Wulf vs. Thasmodius.  I will post ingredients at Noon EST Today.  Wik is alternate, in case either Wulf or Thasmodius bails between now and then. 

-rg


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## CleverNickName (Oct 27, 2009)

An excellent win by InVinoVeritas!  I knew I was going down in flames when I read your entry.

Nifft, you had some questions about my entry, and I'll happily answer them.  I hope nobody thinks I am whining about the ruling.  I got my kiester kicked right and proper.  

-----

You asked about the mummy priest?  I suppose the party could grapple the mummy, pin it down, and shove the heart through the dry wrappings and into the mummy's hollow body cavity.  Sounds pretty cool, actually.  I don't see why the standard rules for grappling and pinning wouldn't apply.

And the final judgment with the heart and the feather and the scale?  Yeah, I thought about that...when I got the ingredients, the first thing I did was Google "heart+feather."  The Egyptian judgment story is the first thing that comes up.   

So I originally had the party travel to the Underworld via the *bottomless pit* to dispose of the *still beating heart* of A'nen by weighing it against a *feather token*.  But the adventure didn't really have anything to do with interrupted communications, beetle swarms, or dragon-slaying.  And the more I tried to add these in, the more contrived the story felt.  ("Oh look!  The Underworld is infested with beetles!  Who'd have thunk?")

And the finale was really bad.  All that work to deliver the heart to Anubis for judgment, only to thwart that judgment by having it sprout into a tree (or be falsely weighed by an anchor, or blown away by a fan) made the whole trip pointless.  Unless the party was evil, or the dead mummy was good, in which case they wouldn't be carrying the heart into the Underworld in the first place.

So I lost a lot of time trying to make it work, only to scrap it.  I scrambled to write a classic "destroy the lich" adventure instead, and the result was sloppy.   One should never be in a hurry when writing anything for 3.5E...it's too easy to make stupid mistakes.  Like forgetting to add the size modifier to Hide checks, or forgetting to add a Climb speed.  I even misspelled the name of my villain in the title, for crying out loud.

And you are absolutely right, the story is on rails.  I had no idea it would have been so obvious...but now that you point it out, wow.

In retrospect, I should have edited out the parts about Pharaoh's word being law even if it is a very important part of Egyptian culture.  Because let's be honest: heroes don't like being told what to do.  And Hem-netjer should have been written further into the background...he should have been nothing more than a guide.

-----

Anyhoo.  Great win to InVinoVeritas!  I knew I was done for when I saw those dragon-devouring beetles.  And I love how you strung the feather tokens together.  In all, you made excellent use of the ingredients, and mine were just...rushed.  I'll be rooting for you in the finals!


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 27, 2009)

Assuming we still get 48 hours (I have my tabletop group coming over tonite...) then I am not bailing.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 27, 2009)

R2M2: Wulf vs. Thasmodius, Ingredients Posted

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-all-matches-3.html#post4976943


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## Nifft (Oct 27, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Nifft, you had some questions about my entry, and I'll happily answer them.  I hope nobody thinks I am whining about the ruling.



 Nobody would think that. Thank you for your thoughts.



Wulf Ratbane said:


> Assuming we still get 48 hours (I have my tabletop group coming over tonite...) then I am not bailing.



 Yes, absolutely.

Cheers, -- N


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## Thasmodious (Oct 27, 2009)

Present and ingredients about to be viewed.

Edit:  Wow, what a list, those are some insane ingredients.  I hope I can do them justice.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 27, 2009)

Radiating Gnome said:


> R2M2: Wulf vs. Thasmodius, Ingredients Posted
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-all-matches-3.html#post4976943




Got 'em. 

No inspiring connections are jumping out at me...


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## phoamslinger (Oct 27, 2009)

ElectricDragon and Iron Sky, your decision awaits.


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## Nifft (Oct 27, 2009)

r1m8 *phoamslinger*'s judgment: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-all-matches-3.html#post4974297


Regarding match 3 and 4, it looks like we could run match three from Thursday-Saturday, and match four from Saturday-Monday.

Anyone facing time restrictions?

Thanks, -- N


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## ElectricDragon (Oct 27, 2009)

Isn't a flesh golem really a patchwork golem? A patchwork of parts from different creatures. If I had instead made it a quilt golem would that have been better?

The comet was the thing that again activated the golem, I thought that was apparent, maybe I should have posted extra material, too. If you read his commands, and that the 1st command was ignored, that has to mean that the 2nd command is still active if it applies, the comet makes it apply again.

Golem tied to comet tied to sleeping sickness tied to shocking arrows: all found in ruins of bloody dungeon. 

I saw criticism of my entry but none of Iron Sky's; what's up with that, was his perfect? 

I have two plot hooks for if the party is HQ'd in the town or just passing through. Yes, the comet didn't come into the story at all except in passing, but the same is true of Iron Sky's comet. My comet caused a golem to go on the rampage, kidnapping people inadvertently freeing ancient people from a sleeping death of 15 thousand years. 

Let's see, moneylender: mine shows up 3-4 times in the story and is aggressive. His shows up once and is powerful. Character development then doesn't matter

Shocking Arrows, mine are carried by the golem to wake up the sleeping dead (tied into both), his are carried by the lich (moneylender) and are just what is needed to activate this multi-generational, more-powerful-than-any-god golem.

I didn't add sex to mine, I guess I should have linked porn. I thought this was a family-oriented site though so, sex wasn't even considered, stupid me.

My only real weak point was the bloody dungeon, which was only bloody by tale, a red herriing for the players. The two unique undead were meant to be "survivors" of this dungeon and what it did to people. You didn't see that though.

I don't mind criticism, when it is meant to help provide a means to better one's stories, but phoamslinger's criticism was more: your sucks, his is great. And this after delaying the judgement for more than 3 days. Thank you.

Don't expect me to try this again, I can see that the judges have their favorites. I have been DMing for more than 30 years, I have had some of my adventures written up in Dragon magazine, and at least one editorial about one specific adventure that shocked the editor enough to spend the whole issue talking about it. I know what kind of DM I am.

I don't do 4th edition, I don't have a lot of computer savvy, I don't do computer graphics, but my adventures are talked about for years. You should be so lucky to play in one of my campaigns.

If this post gets me banned, so be it; I'm kinda peeved right now.

Ciao,
Dave


----------



## Wik (Oct 27, 2009)

No time restrictions here, Nifft.  Really, I check this thread about twice a day, so if you say "wik, it's time to go,", I'll know about it within a couple of hours.  

So, gimme a time to start, and I'll start.  Thurs-Sat sounds easy enough.


----------



## Wik (Oct 27, 2009)

ElectricDragon said:


> snip
> 
> Ciao,
> Dave




Dude, I hate to say it, but you're kinda sounding like sour grapes.  To be quite honest, I read both entries, and I have to admit... I didn't really like either.  Phoam could have been a bit more even in his assessment (in fact, I think it hurts Iron Sky in that he didn't post a critique of that post's ingredient use), but he explained why he judged things the way he did.

And to attack your competitor's entry is pretty poor taste, man.  

Were I you, I'd just delete your last post in this thread, and apologize. And then I'll delete this post, and we can go on and pretend nothing happened.


----------



## phoamslinger (Oct 27, 2009)

ElectricDragon said:


> Isn't a flesh golem really a patchwork golem? A patchwork of parts from different creatures. If I had instead made it a quilt golem would that have been better?




ED.  
I've had judges come down hard on me before and generally felt wronged by the whole judgement thing.  so I went back and re-read your entry again.  earlier I've been called out for being too critical and I was working to avoid that.  if you really want me to go into five pages of detail as to how weak I found your entry to be, then too bad.  I'm not going to do it.  

but I could have.

yes, golems are patchworks of things.  so what made your golem stand out as more of a patchwork than the golem down the block?  nothing that I could see.  IS's golem stood out better.  point to him.



> The comet was the thing that again activated the golem, I thought that was apparent, maybe I should have posted extra material, too. If you read his commands, and that the 1st command was ignored, that has to mean that the 2nd command is still active if it applies, the comet makes it apply again.




the comet reactivated the golem, ok.  the golem is obeying its orders from 15 millenia ago, ok.  the golem ignores said programming if it has to escape the combat.  did I miss something there.  no - suddenly an automaton breaks its programming of 15,000 years out of a sense of its own survival.  yeah, right.  point to IS.



> Golem tied to comet tied to sleeping sickness tied to shocking arrows: all found in ruins of bloody dungeon.




ok, I see the Golem and the comet and a spell _called_ sleeping death which works except that the villagers aren't dead and are not in danger of death.  they wake up when the next persons enter chamber III (which would mean that several wake up when the party enters, putting the party to sleep for several 1000 years till someone else wanders in - sorry I see a serious campaign break there - but that's just me playing favorites I guess).  the shocking arrows did not stand out as being critical.  the answer "they woke up the villagers because I say so" doesn't carry the weight I was looking for.  and your dungeon may have all the reputation you want to give it, but you described slippery and mossy.  if it had had blood seeping through the cracks in the ceiling and blood pools outside attracting vermin and undead, that would have been better, but I would have been asking why? Why? WHY?



> I saw criticism of my entry but none of Iron Sky's; what's up with that, was his perfect?
> 
> I have two plot hooks for if the party is HQ'd in the town or just passing through. Yes, the comet didn't come into the story at all except in passing, but the same is true of Iron Sky's comet. My comet caused a golem to go on the rampage, kidnapping people inadvertently freeing ancient people from a sleeping death of 15 thousand years.




maybe a paragraph to that effect as well as some background would have been helpful.  I didn't see the golem as rampaging, didn't see how it was kidnapping folks within the story - if I saw a giant coming after me, I'd be running for the town guard, didn't see how it all fit together except in a slapdash way.



> Let's see, moneylender: mine shows up 3-4 times in the story and is aggressive. His shows up once and is powerful. Character development then doesn't matter
> 
> Shocking Arrows, mine are carried by the golem to wake up the sleeping dead (tied into both), his are carried by the lich (moneylender) and are just what is needed to activate this multi-generational, more-powerful-than-any-god golem.




not strong entries, as stated.  I thought IS did a better job bringing them into his.



> My only real weak point was the bloody dungeon, which was only bloody by tale, a red herriing for the players. The two unique undead were meant to be "survivors" of this dungeon and what it did to people. You didn't see that though.




no I didn't.  and it's not my job to mind read.  it's yours to present things clearly.  which I didn't see.  I saw disjointed and confusing.  these were not strengths of your entry.  Iron Sky may have been long winded, but I didn't have to go looking for connections in his entry either.  




> I don't mind criticism



sure about that?


> ...when it is meant to help provide a means to better one's stories, but phoamslinger's criticism was more: your sucks, his is great. And this after delaying the judgement for more than 3 days. Thank you.




you're welcome.  and no, his was just better.  I wish you had made it a closer contest which would have required more examination from me, but you didn't do that.  I found IS's use of each of the six ingredients to be stronger and more memorable, and most importantly, more stongly connected to the other five than I did in yours.



> Don't expect me to try this again, I can see that the judges have their favorites. I have been DMing for more than 30 years, I have had some of my adventures written up in Dragon magazine, and at least one editorial about one specific adventure that shocked the editor enough to spend the whole issue talking about it. I know what kind of DM I am.




well nice to meet you ElectricDragon.  I haven't hung out on this board in close to five YEARS, so each and everyone of you is indistinguishable from the other.  favorites all around.  

but tell you what.  send your adventure off to the Dragon editors and ask them for a neutral critique as an Iron DM entry (which they should be familiar with).  maybe if someone else is critical of it, you'll listen to what was said instead of what you've read into it.    



> I don't do 4th edition, I don't have a lot of computer savvy, I don't do computer graphics, but my adventures are talked about for years. You should be so lucky to play in one of my campaigns.




running campaigns isn't the same thing as writing adventures.  someone published in The Dragon should know that.  maybe if you rattled off some of your published adventures, I would be properly respectful of what came across in this post as a full blown childish tantrum.  

but then again, since I was one of the core writers of modules for my LG region for three+ years while LG lasted and I don't bother reading Dragon anymore, maybe I wouldn't.

up next, praise for Iron Sky's adventure.  

it's long but is a worthwhile read.  each of his ingredients tied well to several of the others, would have been a challenge to replace and  overall made for a memorable adventure to read.  sorry if I didn't go into more detail on it, but I thought it was well done.


----------



## Wik (Oct 27, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> up next, praise for Iron Sky's adventure.
> 
> it's long but is a worthwhile read.  each of his ingredients tied well to several of the others, would have been a challenge to replace and  overall made for a memorable adventure to read.  sorry if I didn't go into more detail on it, but I thought it was well done.




Hey, while you're at it, could you point out where my initial one failed?  I could use a bit of critique before round 2.


----------



## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 27, 2009)

I'd personally appreciate it if this contest could proceed a lot less pissily all around.


----------



## phoamslinger (Oct 27, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> I'd personally appreciate it if this contest could proceed a lot less pissily all around.




qft


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## Iron Sky (Oct 27, 2009)

phoamslinger, thanks for judging our round.  I definitely think my challenge in future rounds will be to make things more concise.  Sitting down to write it sparked up so many ideas, I couldn't figure out which ones not to include.  Heck, my outline took 3 pages on its own...

I also learned that its better to sit on your adventure over night then look at it the next day than post it as soon as you finish.  I spotted a dozen or so typos, unclear sentences, etc. when I re-read it as I was putting up the encounters.  Things for next time I guess.

Looking forward to our match Sparky!


As for the "sexual content" that Dave mentioned, I tried to keep it PG-13 (mostly innuendo and implied sexual content).  Was that too much for ENWorld?  It wasn't my intent to offend anyone...


----------



## Sparky (Oct 27, 2009)

Me too, Iron Sky. I can't do worse than last round! And I hope to do much, much better. As for timing, I'm less available on the weekends than I am during the week. At least, currently, that's the case.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 27, 2009)

Wik and Atras,

let me know if Thursday at noon works as a start time for the two of you.  if you both post in the affirmative, then that's when I'll set up your ingredients.


----------



## Wik (Oct 28, 2009)

Sounds good to me.  I have a couple things I need to do thursday night, but I'll have more than enough time to get it done either late thursday or early friday.  Looking forward to it!


----------



## InVinoVeritas (Oct 28, 2009)

CleverNickName, I really enjoyed the stringing together of beetles, hearts, and feathers through Ancient Egypt. It was a beautiful, evocative way to put the adventure together.

Also, the Scarab Dragon is seriously cool. I'll have to yoink that.

The whole use of a Bottomless Pit was, in my opinion, the hardest to come up with ideas. Yes, the whole "falling down a bottomless pit" is cool, but the logistics of one are hard, and can usually be approximated with "falling down a snake-filled pit" or "falling down a really deep pit" without it being bottomless at all...

Although, I suppose there is a demiplane that would be entirely a bottomless pit, the whole culture flying around to help each other, all the while just falling forever... generations falling forever...

Anyway, thank you for the compliments, CleverNickName. I enjoyed the challenge.


----------



## CleverNickName (Oct 28, 2009)

ElectricDragon said:


> If this post gets me banned, so be it; I'm kinda peeved right now.



Chin up, E-Dragon.  I just got voted off the island myself, and it stings.

The thing to keep in mind is that one judge not liking your entry does not make it worthless.  Did you enjoy writing it, at least?  Did you like the challenge of working against a deadline and trying to find common threads in your ingredients?  Who cares what the judge thought about your entry?  If you had fun, you should keep playing.

But wow, dude.  You gotta check that temper.

For what it's worth, I liked both entries.  I probably won't have my party of adventurers being seduced on the surface of Haley's Comet anytime soon, and I will never, never, _ever_ start an adventure in a tavern.  But I thought that both adventures told a solid story, had clear challenges, and made good use of the ingredients.

Only one can win, though, and I thought that Iron Sky's adventure showed more imagination and creativity.  "Utreyal's Revenge" had a comet in the sky; "The Children of Death" put the party in the sky with the comet.  So I agree with phoamy's ruling.

And I'd be happy to face you in a future Iron DM competition, if you decide to come back.  Three-Fivers like us have got to stick together.


----------



## CleverNickName (Oct 28, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> CleverNickName, I really enjoyed the stringing together of beetles, hearts, and feathers through Ancient Egypt. It was a beautiful, evocative way to put the adventure together.



Thanks.  That was a seriously hard set of ingredients to work with.  I think that I am going to add some polish to "The Heart of A'nen," and run it as a sandbox game sometime.  Like the lolcats say, it haz a flavor.



InVinoVeritas said:


> Also, the Scarab Dragon is seriously cool. I'll have to yoink that.



Just be sure to check the math first.  

I was really happy with the way that turned out.  It has me thinking about putting together a whole set of "vermin dragons" that spit swarms of bugs instead of lightning or acid.  A Centipede Dragon that spews swarms of squirming, skittering bugs all over you?  A Spider Dragon that smothers you in a twitching mass of glossy black widows?  (shudder)  Mmmm...



InVinoVeritas said:


> The whole use of a Bottomless Pit was, in my opinion, the hardest to come up with ideas. Yes, the whole "falling down a bottomless pit" is cool, but the logistics of one are hard, and can usually be approximated with "falling down a snake-filled pit" or "falling down a really deep pit" without it being bottomless at all...



I agree.  That's why I had to put a gate to another plane in the bottom.  Yes, it was "window dressing" as Nifft said...but I didn't know what else to do.

There is a place on the northwest side of Pikes Peak that is called The Bottomless Pit...I lived in Colorado Springs for six years, so that was the first thing I thought of when I saw that ingredient.  I suppose that was what I was trying to go for more than anything...a landmark that the locals _call_ a bottomless pit, but really isn't.  But either way...gate to another plane, local hole in the ground, it's weak.

Good luck in the finals!


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## Nifft (Oct 28, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> I agree.  That's why I had to put a gate to another plane in the bottom.  Yes, it was "window dressing" as Nifft said...but I didn't know what else to do.



 Well, just off the top of my head, you could have made the bottomless well into the thing the PCs have to enter to get into the other caves. The mummy won't go in the water, and her servants are beetles (not exactly water-compatible either), so having the PCs use the elemental plane of water gates to sneak behind her defenses could have been cool. It would remind me of that James Bond movie, anyway.

Cheers, -- N


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## Atras (Oct 28, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> Wik and Atras,
> 
> let me know if Thursday at noon works as a start time for the two of you.  if you both post in the affirmative, then that's when I'll set up your ingredients.



Sure, Thursday is fine.


----------



## Pour (Oct 28, 2009)

I can't stop lurking these Iron DM threads! Drama, Suspense, Envy, Lust, Mystery...

Oh and I think I'll be starting up a fan club now: Go Invino!


----------



## Wik (Oct 28, 2009)

Pour said:


> I can't stop lurking these Iron DM threads! Drama, Suspense, Envy, Lust, Mystery...
> 
> Oh and I think I'll be starting up a fan club now: Go Invino!




You're out of my will.


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## Pour (Oct 28, 2009)

Haha, but if he wins it all, then my first round loss will have been nearly forgivable!


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## Iron Sky (Oct 28, 2009)

Pour said:


> I can't stop lurking these Iron DM threads! Drama, Suspense, Envy, Lust, Mystery...
> 
> Oh and I think I'll be starting up a fan club now: Go Invino!




I hope you're talking about the adventures we're writing and not the interactions between the contestants and judges, otherwise I'm missing out!


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## Pour (Oct 28, 2009)

Haha *ambiguity*


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## Nifft (Oct 28, 2009)

Looks like r2m4 (last match of round 2) will be *Sparky* and *Iron Sky*. We could do this over the weekend (Friday-Sunday or Saturday-Monday), or we could start earlier.

What works best for you gents?

Thanks, -- N


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## Sparky (Oct 28, 2009)

Lady. And I'm flexible. I was hoping for a Monday start, what with the holiday and all, but it's your show.


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## vagabundo (Oct 28, 2009)

Pour said:


> I can't stop lurking these Iron DM threads! Drama, Suspense, Envy, Lust, Mystery...




And MURDER!!!!


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## phoamslinger (Oct 28, 2009)

then tomorrow at noon it shall be.


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## InVinoVeritas (Oct 29, 2009)

Pour said:


> Haha, but if he wins it all, then my first round loss will have been nearly forgivable!




I shall endeavor to rock whenever possible.

Thanks.


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## humble minion (Oct 29, 2009)

Pour said:


> Haha, but if he wins it all, then my first round loss will have been nearly forgivable!




I'm going for Thasmodious, for the same reason!


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## Thasmodious (Oct 29, 2009)

Ha, thank you, sir!  This round is kicking my butt.  I think I got something locked down and am writing away, though.


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## Iron Sky (Oct 29, 2009)

I check about twice a day or so, so whenever is good for me.  We game on Saturday night, so Saturday is the worst for me - just about any other time is better.


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## CleverNickName (Oct 29, 2009)

vagabundo said:


> Pour said:
> 
> 
> > I can't stop lurking these Iron DM threads! Drama, Suspense, Envy, Lust, Mystery...
> ...



But mostly lust.

_Lots _of lust.


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## Thasmodious (Oct 29, 2009)

My entry is up.

I'll post some comments later, for now - sleep...


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## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 29, 2009)

Thasmodious said:


> My entry is up.




Ditto. Had a real hard time getting going on that set of ingredients, but I am fairly happy with how it came together. It passes my personal "I'd run it!" test.


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## Nifft (Oct 29, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Ah, I see.  So that means the schedule looks something like this, barring any cancellations or disqualifications:
> 
> *EDIT:*  Updated 10-24-09
> 
> ...



 Woah, I just noticed you're keeping this up to date. I'm linking to you from the first post. Thanks!

Links also added to entries by Thasmodius and Wulf Ratbane.


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## phoamslinger (Oct 29, 2009)

Wik and Atras, your ingredients are posted.  sorry about the late post.  got caught up in a pbem TI3 game I'm moderating.


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## Wik (Oct 29, 2009)

Got it.  Will have to work on it tonight, maybe tomorrow too.  Gonna be a hard list of ingredients... especially the last one.  Looking forward to seeing how it all turns out (right now, I have absolutely *no* idea!).

Good luck to you, Atras!


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## Atras (Oct 29, 2009)

Wik said:


> Gonna be a hard list of ingredients...
> Good luck to you, Atras!



Indeed.  I think I can see a couple of connections, but pulling everything together is going to be a feat.  Good luck to you too, Wik.


----------



## Nifft (Oct 29, 2009)

Sparky said:


> Lady. And I'm flexible. I was hoping for a Monday start, what with the holiday and all, but it's your show.






Iron Sky said:


> I check about twice a day or so, so whenever is good for me.  We game on Saturday night, so Saturday is the worst for me - just about any other time is better.



 Let's start Sunday evening, giving all of Monday and most of Tuesday.


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## Radiating Gnome (Oct 31, 2009)

R2M2 judgement is up.   

http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-all-matches-3.html#post4980606


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## Thasmodious (Oct 31, 2009)

Thanks for the judgment and the contest.  I've really enjoyed it.  Congratulations to Wulf, your entry was really good, good luck in the finals, sir.

I agree with much of the judgment and when I read Wulf's entry I thought my defeat was probable, unless the judge was put off by the HP homage.  What I liked about yours Wulf, is that you had a strong direction.  You clearly wrote a light-hearted spoof and it held that direction throughout.  Mine started considerably more serious, then veered toward a light hearted direction.  By the time I wrote it, I didn't firmly set it in one vein or the other.  I did like my tavern better, though (although the image of PCs coming across a bunch of people apparently magically sitting in a field was a nice one).  Skink was a very good NPC with strong ties throughout and I dropped the ball on how I meant to integrate the flying goblin (his flight and opposition to the PCs was meant to be much more integral).  Initially, I had a much stronger idea on the Arrow of Evil Undone, but it didn't jive with the direction I used to link the rest of the ingredients.  I was thinking about having it a powerful religious artifact that could effectively undo some great evil act, like a divine wish.  The patron of the PCs wanted it because of some terrible evil he committed in his past that he wanted to rectify (by having the PCs kill him with the arrow).  Besides that the tone of that was much darker than the rest of the adventure, that seemed a bit too powerful to be a prize in a contest.  Kings and clergy would war over such an item.  

Also, I had a better idea with the Golden Zipper that just didn't fit with the rest, that of a magical zipper that could be affixed to any surface and as a daily power would act as a Passwall.  Affixed to a personal item, like some clothing, it became an extradimensional pocket like a bag of holding.

As to leaving out the puzzle details.  That was more a matter of personal style.  Different groups are good at and like different kinds of puzzles.  I rarely run a puzzle in a published module (I rarely run a published module, but when I do...), and just yank it out and put in my own catered to what my group likes, which is why I left that one up to the DM.  I didn't think the particulars of the puzzle was integral to the encounter, just that there was one, imo.  But, that's my particulars, I can see why you felt that was a negative omission.   

In the end, I think my major weakness in that entry was not picking a particular direction and building the adventure around that, something Wulf did very well.  If I had made the entire thing dark, it would have been an interesting contrast with Wulfs, but then some of the ingredients called for a lighter tone.

Anyway, just some thoughts.  Happy writing to those still in!


----------



## Wik (Oct 31, 2009)

Well, that was hard.  Took me the better part of two days, waffling quite a bit.  Still, I like the finished product - it's playable, the ingredients tie together, and none of them seem tacked on.  

I hope I'm not the only one that thinks that!

Now, I need some sleep.  Geez.


----------



## Wulf Ratbane (Oct 31, 2009)

Thasmodious said:


> Thanks for the judgment and the contest.  I've really enjoyed it.  Congratulations to Wulf, your entry was really good, good luck in the finals, sir.




Thanks, Thasmodious... I will do my best!

By the way, your self-judgment above shows some good insight-- I expect you will do well in future tourneys (if you are not put off by the grueling experience this time around!)


----------



## Radiating Gnome (Oct 31, 2009)

Damn, we seem to have screwed something up.  Isn't a judgement supposed to be followed by rancor and recrimination?  If you two don't cut it out with the hugging, I'm gonna hurl.  

 

Seriously, it was a good round, really does highlight what Iron DM is all about.  Thanks to both of you.  

-rg


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## Atras (Oct 31, 2009)

I am going to be cutting it so close - huge time management fail on my part. Hopefully I can get something that is worth competetion together before the cut off. I just wanted to drop a line letting people know that I didn't actually forget about this, but I'm scrambling to get something put together!

Edit - I could have spent another 3 hours getting this right, but my time is up.  Enjoy!


----------



## Wik (Oct 31, 2009)

Atras said:


> I am going to be cutting it so close - huge time management fail on my part. Hopefully I can get something that is worth competetion together before the cut off. I just wanted to drop a line letting people know that I didn't actually forget about this, but I'm scrambling to get something put together!
> 
> Edit - I could have spent another 3 hours getting this right, but my time is up.  Enjoy!




Yeah, time management can be a huge pain.  I had similar problems this time around, too.  Mostly because I was loaned Halo: ODST, which is just too damn addictive!  Had to stay up late last night to get my entry finished.  It's rough.

Anyways, good luck sirrah, and may the best drunken githyanki win.


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## phoamslinger (Nov 1, 2009)

Wik and Atras, chant with me...

_"two giths enter.  one gith leaves.  two giths enter.  one gith leaves..._


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## Nifft (Nov 1, 2009)

Sparky & Iron Sky, I'm going to post ingredients at 6M if I hear from you both before then.

Thanks, -- N


----------



## Wik (Nov 1, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> Wik and Atras, chant with me...
> 
> _"two giths enter.  one gith leaves.  two giths enter.  one gith leaves..._




I honestly have no idea what you mean by that, but I'll chant it if you'd like.  

Atras, I really thought you were going to take the win for this one.  Hope to see you again in the next Iron GM.  You had a great entry, and I really like how you implemented "Journey's End".  

I liked my implementation on it,too, but I didn't like the idea of a place called "Journey's End".  I was afraid, though, that if I simply used it as a theme, I'd get dinged for not including an ingedient.  Good to know I can use ingredients entirely as themes.

They were a really hard set of ingredients to play with.  I'm afraid of what round 3 is gonna bring me.


----------



## phoamslinger (Nov 1, 2009)

Wik said:


> I honestly have no idea what you mean by that, but I'll chant it if you'd like.






it's a cultural reference.  go rent Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome and watch it.

_kids these days..._


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## Nifft (Nov 1, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> go rent Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome.
> 
> _kids these days..._



 "Rent"... how old-fashioned.

Cheers, -- N

PS: Sparky & Iron Sky, ingredients when you post.


----------



## Wik (Nov 1, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> it's a cultural reference.  go rent Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome and watch it.
> 
> _kids these days..._




Ah.  That's the only one I haven't seen.  See, I love post-apoc movies.... but Mad Max just never "Did it" for me.  And post-apocalyptic Tina Turner just ain't my cup o' tea.


----------



## Iron Sky (Nov 1, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Sparky & Iron Sky, I'm going to post ingredients at 6M if I hear from you both before then.
> 
> Thanks, -- N




Waagh!


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## Sparky (Nov 1, 2009)

I'm here and got my ears on, Nifft.


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## Nifft (Nov 1, 2009)

Excellent. Here are your ingredients.

"_And they're off!_", -- N


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## Nifft (Nov 1, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> Nifft said:
> 
> 
> > *Frightened Seaman*




Oy. Comments here in the General thread, please.


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## Sparky (Nov 2, 2009)

Got the ingredients and stuff. Good luck, Iron Sky!


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 2, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> it's a cultural reference. go rent Mad Max Beyond Thunderdome and watch it.
> 
> _kids these days..._




Yeah, you worry about them seeing the classics, and they don't even get as far as Mad Max.

In a generation, they'll listen to the one with the Tell about how they all have to wait for Walker.


----------



## Iron Sky (Nov 2, 2009)

Whew, tough list.  I've already came up with and discarded a few ideas.  Hopefully this next one will work.

Hope the list is doing something for you Sparky, it's got my brain on the rack! (or is it, I'm racking my brain)?


----------



## Iron Sky (Nov 2, 2009)

Whew, got mine done!  Using wisdom garnered from last time, I'm going to sit on it over night and look at it fresh tomorrow, make sure it makes sense a day later.

Judges will be happy to know that it's less than half as long as my last entry as well!


----------



## Atras (Nov 2, 2009)

Wik said:


> Atras, I really thought you were going to take the win for this one.  Hope to see you again in the next Iron GM.  You had a great entry, and I really like how you implemented "Journey's End".
> 
> I liked my implementation on it,too, but I didn't like the idea of a place called "Journey's End".  I was afraid, though, that if I simply used it as a theme, I'd get dinged for not including an ingredient.  Good to know I can use ingredients entirely as themes.
> 
> They were a really hard set of ingredients to play with.  I'm afraid of what round 3 is gonna bring me.



Thanks for the kind words.  When I submitted it, I felt that I had little to no chance of winning the round with what I had, but if I had done better with my time, I would have had a chance.  I felt that your Blood Coral and Cloak were a much, much better use than mine, and even if I had fully written up what I planned, you would have had a solid shot at the round.

I feel like I should have better pointed out the use of Con Artist with the Githyanki - no fault of the judge, but the Githyanki was mostly pretending to be a harmless drunk (despite actually being drunk) so that he could rule over the drug trade - if I had fleshed that out better, it would have shown that the Githyanki still had an eye on conquest, like his race favors, but was in no position to attack on his own.

It was a fun exercise, and I will keep my eye on this coming back around next time.  Wik, good luck in the next round - the ingredients are likely to just get harder, but you've been a good competitor so far.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 3, 2009)

My entry is up here.

Of course, after reading and re-reading it several times checking for errors and the like, I hit post and immediately realize that it still has the name I gave my previous (failed) attempt to come up with my entry.  *sigh*

A better name would be something like: *The Dreaming Realm* or *The Artisan of Dreams*.  Oh well, nothing's perfect.

Looking forward to seeing your entry Sparky!  Hope it's coming along ok.


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## Sparky (Nov 3, 2009)

Wow. Cut it close there.

My entry is up. With a whole minute to spare.


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## Nifft (Nov 4, 2009)

Round 3, Match 1 (out of two): *Wulf Ratbane* v *InVinoVeritas*. How does tomorrow sound? Shall we start in the morning, or afternoon?

*Sparky* and *Iron Sky*, good to see you both got yours in. Time for me to get reading.

Thanks, -- N


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## Wik (Nov 4, 2009)

Cool.  So that puts me in around friday-saturday?  Perfect time for it.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 4, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Round 3, Match 1 (out of two): *Wulf Ratbane* v *InVinoVeritas*. How does tomorrow sound? Shall we start in the morning, or afternoon?




I like a noontime delivery.


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 4, 2009)

I'll be unavailable until around 7pm EST, due to work. 

I've been lucky to have weekend matches so far...


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 4, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> I'll be unavailable until around 7pm EST, due to work.
> 
> I've been lucky to have weekend matches so far...




I have a lot of commitments on Friday afternoons, so a later delivery date buys me no extra time.

I'm willing to split the difference with IVV and take a 3:30 delivery, which means I'll get mine the same amount of time in advance that I won't have to work on it on Friday.

Reasonable?


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## Nifft (Nov 4, 2009)

If IVV can't post before 7M, then noon is functionally equivalent to 3:30 PM. Either way he'll have two nights to work on the match (tonight & tomorrow). So I'm posting ingredients now.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 4, 2009)

Nifft said:


> If IVV can't post before 7M, then noon is functionally equivalent to 3:30 PM. Either way he'll have two nights to work on the match (tonight & tomorrow). So I'm posting ingredients now.




As I am only just now getting them myself, as it turns out noon was functionally equivalent to 3:30.


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 5, 2009)

Got ingredients. Now thinking.


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## Nifft (Nov 5, 2009)

Iron Sky, Sparky: your judgment is posted.

Thanks again.


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## Sparky (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks for the judgment, Nifft. I'll have to read it again, but I consider that you'd want to use the city and/or crypts a win of sorts. Building cities and cultures is one of my favorite things to do.  

As far as that the adventure punishes the players/PCs for going along with it, I disagree. But then as a player, I don't think of the DM as someone whose job it is to punish, so much as someone whose job it is to challenge. And that's the kind of DM I am too, or at least, that's what I aim to be. The 'punishment' is _adventure_. A story to tell, 'haha, Bard, remember when you were trapped in that battleaxe and Grug wanted to keep you that way? haha, don't look at me like that, we came in after you.' 

As far as splitting up the party... I dunno... I don't think it's reasonable to expect PCs to live in eachother's pockets every moment. I do agree that the weakest part is the rescue of Jernin and submitting to the poison under questionable supervision. And for Fleeing the Feydream's skill challenge, all I can say is... I'd just finished the most recent Ratchet & Clank game. 

Good on ya, Iron Sky! I really liked the dreaminess of your dreams. Particularly the poor shepherdess. Oh, and I thought the hooks into your adventure were particularly good. Good luck in Round 3!

EDIT: Oh, I forgot to address the soulrider's power - Maskim didn't want to lose the body, a PC's powers are WAY better than most NPCs/monsters. So he'd do pretty much anything not to have to flee the body. I could have made that clearer.

EDIT 2: Also, the Bard doesn't sit out, the session should alternate between stuff the Bard is doing and stuff the rest of the party is doing. Now, granted, some of it is RP, so not specifically encounters. I could have explained that better too.


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## Nifft (Nov 5, 2009)

Sparky said:


> As far as that the adventure punishes the players/PCs for going along with it, I disagree.



 It's very true that different players will react very differently to loss of control over their PC. That's why I put that note in the Usability section (which counts for less than ingredient use). It's not necessarily a bad thing any more than requiring a Bard would be a bad thing -- but it is a restriction, in that it reduces the number of groups that can use the scenario.



Sparky said:


> Thanks for the judgment, Nifft. I'll have to read it again, but I consider that you'd want to use the city and/or crypts a win of sorts. Building cities and cultures is one of my favorite things to do.



 As a personal aside, I liked both entries this match better than the ones in round one. I do hope you'll be back for future competitions.

Thanks, -- N


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## Iron Sky (Nov 5, 2009)

Thanks for judging Nifft.  You nailed all of my ingredients that I was worried about being too weak.  When I got my burst of inspiration it was the Artist's Studio + Dream Sequence + Wolf In Sheep's Clothing trio(with inspiration from Groundhog Day that you spotted) that was the lynch-pin and when I went back after a furious bit of brain-storm typing, I realized I had 3 more ingredients that needed to be tied in as well.

The poison became alcohol when I was trying to work in the VAT (value added tax) on the alcohol, but I forgot about it and was left with alcohol instead of poison for no especially good reason.

Sparky, I loved your city that you whipped up, especially since that's one of my weak areas - generating interesting cultures and kingdoms that are distinct and memorable on their own rather than just another background place to do the interesting stuff in.  I might have to borrow Barrowdon.

Looking forward to the next match!


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## Nifft (Nov 6, 2009)

r3m2: Wik v Iron Sky.

How's Friday sound?
Any time of day preferable?


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## Wik (Nov 6, 2009)

Any time is peachy for me.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 6, 2009)

Friday late afternoon works.  I'm at work/meetings until about 3pm, my time(that would about 9pm according to the boards).  Any time after that is good for me.


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## Nifft (Nov 6, 2009)

Late afternoon it shall be.

Thanks, -- N


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## Nifft (Nov 6, 2009)

r3m2 - Wik v Iron Sky - Ingredients.

Thanks, -- N


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## Wik (Nov 7, 2009)

Well.  Those ingredients are sure to cause an aneurysm.  Thanks, Nifft.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 7, 2009)

No kidding.  I think my brain is melting atm.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 7, 2009)

I don't know what's up with IVV, but I'm willing to be as accomodating as necessary to get two entries and a judgment.


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## phoamslinger (Nov 7, 2009)

all three judges are more or less waiting for a post of some sort...


hope nothing catastrophic's going on with IVV in RL


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## Iron Sky (Nov 7, 2009)

Wulf, have you ever played the 360 game called The Maw?  That's the first thing I thought of when I saw your beholder's name.  Also, I laughed out loud at 'before the opportunity "passes"'.

And Nifft, my brain is dribbling out one ear a little bit because of this list of ingredients...


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 7, 2009)

I'm sorry, I can't compete.

I had a total brain fart on this one, and... it would take me far longer to get the adventure together. And even then, there's not much.

I'll post what I have shortly.

I guess I need to concentrate on the job during the week, can't write then.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 7, 2009)

Iron Sky said:


> Wulf, have you ever played the 360 game called The Maw?  That's the first thing I thought of when I saw your beholder's name.




No, I just didn't want to go with the usual Xenoxyxzyzy kind of beholder name. I wanted something a little more mobbed-up.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 7, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> I guess I need to concentrate on the job during the week, can't write then.




Glad to know everything is all right. You are not the first contestant to wither, and probably won't be the last. Lord knows it has happened to me. As I said early on (I think?), sometimes it's hard enough just crossing the finish line _at all_.

My usual process is to get the ingredients, write them on a Post-It note, and carry them around with me. Just roll them around and look for connections. Good ideas get written down-- one sentence fragment at a time, often in non-linear fashion with respect to the adventure. I build a list of "flavor bites" from the ingredients-- connections between two disparate ingredients that I want to highlight. The night before the due date, I start doing the serious thinking right before bed-- without notes-- and literally "sleep on it." In the shower, or on my work commute, I start connecting the flavor bites and "writing" in my head.

By the time I actually sit down to type up the entry, it's about an hour's worth of intense (and often hurried) work.

Come to think of it, my Iron DM process is eerily similar to my college writing process...


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## Nifft (Nov 7, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> I guess I need to concentrate on the job during the week, can't write then.



 Note to everyone: if this kind of thing happens, *please* let a judge know as early as you can.

Specifically to IVV: personally, I consider it a terrible shame to let a round 3 match end by default -- much worse than waiting an extra day, particularly if the other judges and your opponent are sport.

So, take a deep breath, let the coffee settle in, and write something today.

Best, -- N


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## phoamslinger (Nov 7, 2009)

Round Three, Match One,  Wulf vs InVinoVeritas

Judgment #1 is done (I'm sure you can find it).

my judgement is [sblocked] so that Nifft and RG can write up their own ideas without undue influence.  so if you all want to make comments on my judgment, keep them spoiler free till the other two get finished.

thanks.

this will be the setup for the last three matches.


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## Nifft (Nov 7, 2009)

D'oh! I should check the other thread before I post in this one... IVV, it seems you had already posted before my encouragement to do so.

Okay, time to get reading.

Thanks, -- N


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## Nifft (Nov 8, 2009)

All three judgments and summary are up. Links in the first post.

It's really interesting to see how the three of us looked at these entries. We seem to agree about a lot of things.

It's also IMHO interesting to note that if either entry had had a bit more time to polish up his work, that one would have taken the prize.

Thank you both.


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## Wik (Nov 8, 2009)

I just wanted to say, right now, that I'm in love with my ingredients.  Absolutely in love.  Once I started putting them together, everything started gelling.  I'm actually cackling with glee.  

One thing I noticed, not especially about these ingredients, but with every ingredient list, is that when we first look at them, we think "How can I turn this into an adventure that doesn't look like it was just a bunch of random elements thrown together?".   And yet, when we look at some of the great adventures of the time, we realize that a lot of those very same adventures were composed of seemingly unrelated elements.

For example, Tamoachan.  If it were an Iron GM entry, it would have ingredients like:  

Time Limit
Poison Gas
Talking Crayfish
Mirror of Opposition
Animal Gods

Or something like that.  Which are a weird combo of ingredients... yet that is still my all-time favourite adventure.  Looking at what I'm working on right now, while it's not on the same level, I'm still seeing that "old-school charm" to what I'm putting together.  

Just something that's on my mind right now.  And I keep seeing it in the entries, again and again.  When you first read them, you're looking for ingredients, and adherence to said ingredients.  But, if you read the adventures not knowing (or caring) about the ingredients, a lot of the time you'd just see a great adventure possibility.  

Anyways, that's what I've been thinking, and I wanted to say thanks for everything.  My entry will probably be up in about three hours (it takes me a while to polish everything up!)  Also, one more thing, that I'll sblock so my competition doesn't see it...

[sblock]
Purple Wights.  That was the HARDEST ingredient, like, ever.  I mean, Wights are easy.  But how do you make 'em purple, and have it make sense?  Fiendish ingredient.  
[/sblock]


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## Iron Sky (Nov 8, 2009)

Glad to hear they are working for you at least.  I've been pounding my head against them for 24 hours and I'll probably be up to the wee hours tonight trying to get it done.  I'm just hoping the midnight oil burns pure tonight!


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## Wik (Nov 8, 2009)

I find that what helps me is trying to pick about three ingredients, twist them around a bit, and start linking them.  Usually once you get a few linkages, the rest just pop out.  

This time around, I took a look at a few ingredients and thought "what would be the expected thing to do?" and messed around with that.  

But yeah, I got lucky when inspiration hit.  I really thought this one would be the death of me.  But I think once you start writing, inspiration will come and you'll hammer out something amazing.


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## Sparky (Nov 8, 2009)

A potentially useful (if not terribly timely for our purposes) Roleplaying Tips Weekly.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 8, 2009)

Sweet mercy at last...

Good luck in the finals, IVV!


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## Wik (Nov 8, 2009)

So, I shoot my mouth off after I'm halfway done, and really excited about my idea.  And then, of course, real life cuts in.  People call.  I get called to use my mad first aid skills on a friend (in fact, were it not for my first aid book and an earlier call, I never would have got that idea for "purple wights").  Hockey games become waaaaay too interesting (damn you, maple leafs!).  

Long story short, it's only well after "in about three hours" that I get things done.  And it was a helluva lot harder than I initially made it out to be.  But, it's done.  Hope it works.  Still think it'd be a fun adventure, and not as random as I initially feared.  Hopefully, the judges agree. 

In any case, I had a lot of fun putting this one together.  Best wishes all around.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 8, 2009)

Jeez, 5:30 am and I just finished with my entry.  I finally got hit by inspiration, though whether or not it aimed me in the right direction will remain to be seen.  Whether it did or not, I really enjoyed creating it.

I'll post it after I pass out for a few hours and can give it a final glance over with "fresh" eyes.

I started to read through yours Wik(but I'm too tired right now and my contacts are starting to blur and my reading comprehension is plumeting so I'll have to finish tomorrow).  Interestingly, I also was originally thinking of basing mine on Kua-Toa too, but then had a huge jump in a completely different direction.  I really dig the name "Black Rock Confederation".

Looking forward to seeing how this match turns out whether I win or not - and looking forward to seeing how the final match goes too!


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## Iron Sky (Nov 8, 2009)

Just spent over an hour editing, spell-checking, and revising.  It's done and I'm pooped.

My entry is up.  And I'm off to take a nap.


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## Wik (Nov 8, 2009)

Holy hell.  We went in two entirely different directions, here!  I'm really curious to see how things turn out.  

I really like your entry.  Especially the idea of skysharks.  For some reason, they really stick in my head, and I wish it was something I had thought of.


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## Nifft (Nov 8, 2009)

Links updated, time to get reading.

*InVinoVeritas*, in terms of scheduling the final match, what can you handle? Next weekend is fine, but earlier is better.

Thanks, -- N


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## Iron Sky (Nov 9, 2009)

Hey Wik, just read through your entry and really dug it.  Your interpretation of the wights, in particular, was fantastically creepy and awesome.  I also liked the subtle build-up of tension as the PCs get closer to their goal and the "sudden but inevitable betrayal" that they have to figure is coming but can't figure out how to stop.

The classic Catch-22 is that they see all that slowly happening, but can't do anything about it until it's too late.  Great entry man.


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## Wik (Nov 9, 2009)

Iron Sky said:


> Hey Wik, just read through your entry and really dug it.  Your interpretation of the wights, in particular, was fantastically creepy and awesome.  I also liked the subtle build-up of tension as the PCs get closer to their goal and the "sudden but inevitable betrayal" that they have to figure is coming but can't figure out how to stop.
> 
> The classic Catch-22 is that they see all that slowly happening, but can't do anything about it until it's too late.  Great entry man.




Thanks.  And right back atcha... like I said earlier, "skywhales" are pure genius.  And I loved how you used military terminology.  The second I saw your entry, I knew "Oh, this is gonna be CLOSE".  And when I saw "trident, Mk2" I instantly thought of Halo.  Which is always awesome.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 9, 2009)

For the two judges who have already weighed in (since I don't know if posting a clarification here counts as attempting to sway the judges, I'll sblock it for Nifft):

[sblock]
If I understand correctly, neither of you saw the "healerness" of the Royal Wight.  I hinged it on this:

"Mechanically, he is a Battle Wight Commander(_MM1_,p262), modified to be an elite – mostly consisting of making the Soul Harvest power an at-will rather than recharge power, augmenting the area-of-effect and healing quantity of Soul Harvest, and giving him 15 lightning resist."

When I looked up Wights in the MM (in desperation I might add), I notice that the Battle Wight Commander is a _healer wight_ - as in, his most defining power is that he heals!  I thought, ahah!  Perfect!  To make him a bit tougher, I made him an elite and made him even more of a healer.

I originally thought of slapping the cleric template on him to make him even more of a healer, but I thought this way was a bit more subtle - I didn't even really have to modify a pre-made wight to make him a healer(just augment what was already there when transforming him into an elite).

I guess I was right about it being subtle.  Maybe I should have posted the power?  Not sure how to handle that.

Anyway, just in case the judges were wondering.  I will admit he's not as "healery" as Wik's healer, but I wasn't totally on crack when I did what I did. [/sblock]

Also, to phoamslinger, no I've never played Paranoia, though I've heard of it a bit.  I'll look into it.

And Radiant Gnome, I ordered the first Black Company book off of Amazon.  I went there to read a summary and see what you were talking about in your judgment and those books sound right up my alley(I'd never even heard of them before!)  Thanks for using that reference, hopefully they'll finally be a fantasy novel I can sink my teeth into again - George R. R. Martin ruined the genre for me since I compare all fantasy I read now on the ASOIAF scale, as in, would I rather re-read one of the books in the series that I've already read 4 times or read the fantasy novel in my hands.  ASOIAF usually wins.


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## Radiating Gnome (Nov 9, 2009)

LOL.  My reply is below

[sblock]
Here I am, the 4e friendly judge on the panel, I didn't even look up the battle wight to see that.  Odds are good that if I didn't do that, you're probably going to get even less credit from the less 4e centric judges.  Sorry to have missed that detail. 

[/sblock]

The first trilogy of black company books are seriously awesome.  IMO, the series loses some steam after that, especially when there is a shift in narrating voice, but it's still good fun, and puts a lot of adult pragmatism and energy into a genre that could really use it.  

If you love GRRM (and I do), I think you'll like it, although the two are very, very different.  

-j


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## Wik (Nov 9, 2009)

Well, I.S., it's neck and neck.  Phoam's was really well done, and had me second-guessing the whole way through who he was gonna vote for.  I enjoyed it, is what I'm saying.  

Can't wait to read Nifft's judgery, regardless of which way he goes.  This has been a VERY enjoyable round.  

I do want to clarify a few things, which I'll do in a spoiler tag for Nifft's benefit.  

[sblock]
Alright, so first off, is the "Fungal Forest".  This is just a linguistic thing, on my part.  I hate using the same word (in this case, "jungle") over and over again, so I subbed forest.  Plus, I live in a rainforest, which many people often think of as jungle for some reason, so I guess the duality of the word always appeals to me.  I get Phoam's point, though.  Though I'm bugged, not at the judge, but at myself, because I had actually wanted to put a point in there about the draftees having to deal with the abundant animal life of the fungus jungle, but didn't, for space reasons.  *facepalm*

Purple Wight:  I couldn't do anything with these entries, until a friend called me up.  She was sick, and i had to do a phone diagnosis to figure out what was wrong, so I dug up my handy occupational first aid book, and while flipping through it, saw some pictures of seriously hurt people - who look purple.  And that kind of got things going.  Which is when I started getting really excited.  

Regarding Gnome's point about running my adventure being harder, I *almost* made it a Savage Worlds adventure to accomodate that, but then decided that if it were a skill challenge instead, it could work in 4e.  Also, the PCs cannot just "go it alone", because if they did, they'd face 30 or 40 kuo-toa at once.  One thing I really liked about writing my adventure was the idea that if PCs let draftees die, their force actually becomes stronger.... until the end fight, because hten they have to fight more wights.  

Fort:  I fully agree on this being my weakest part of the entry.  The image of a "lightning fort" was not one I particularly enjoyed, and I would never put it in my own games.  And since I try to make adventures that I would personally enjoy, I had to somehow make it work.  The lightning is really only useful in the shocking of wights (which is fun!).  Originally, I had it as an underdark fort that was also a lightning rod to the surface, but it was just too gonzo for my taste.  
[/sblock]

Anyways, like I said earlier, I'm really excited by this match, and it's been a lot of fun.


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## Nifft (Nov 9, 2009)

This should have gone in the other thread, eh?

Well now it is.

D'oh, -- N


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## phoamslinger (Nov 9, 2009)

Iron Sky said:


> Also, to phoamslinger, no I've never played Paranoia, though I've heard of it a bit.  I'll look into it.




I don't think it' s giving too much away to say that in the opening chapter of the GM's section of the Paranoia rules, it outlines the four key concepts of successful Paranoia gamemastering:

1. Fear
2. Ignorance
3. Fear and Ignorance
4. Ignorance and Fear

suffice it to say, it's an excellent opportunity to present your players with a no-win situation and be laughing about it behind the GM screen while you smile and help them with assistance that's no help at all.


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## Wik (Nov 9, 2009)

Whew.  Close match.  Good game, Iron Sky, and have fun in the finals!  This was, as I've said earlier, a great match, and I had a lot of fun.  Wish you the best in the final round.

Oh, and Nifft - the kuo toa don't have the trident because they're searchign for it, too.  I didn't make that clear enough.  Which is too bad, but thems the breaks.


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## Nifft (Nov 10, 2009)

Wik said:


> Oh, and Nifft - the kuo toa don't have the trident because they're searchign for it, too.  I didn't make that clear enough.  Which is too bad, but thems the breaks.



 Right. My issue was: if the Kuo-Toa have been in the fort long enough to electrify it, why haven't they found the Trident? What is it about the PCs that enables them to find the central chamber first, when the fish-dudes have been looking far longer? IMHO that needs to be justified. (_I mean, Kuo-Toa have, like, really big eyes, and stuff..._)

Anyway. Darn good work, despite my best efforts to poke holes in both.

Links & summary updated.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 10, 2009)

Whew, I really had no idea how that was going to go and I learned even more in this round than I did in the others.

Thanks a ton judges for your all your work on this; I think in some ways your job was harder than ours was.  

Thanks Wik!  I would have been just as happy if you had won.  Seriously, I wrote one of the entries and if I'd been judging I'd have had a hard time picking one.

I also totally know what you mean about leaving neat descriptive things out for space reasons - I've been highly conscious about that myself since my first entry was 12+ pages long.

Tough to judge where to cut detail because of space and where it'll give you that slight edge that sparks something in your reader.  I also originally had jungle and forest alternating in mine - for the same reason you mention - but I changed it all to jungle at the last minute.

Now I'm going to have to pick up a copy of Paranoia too... maybe once my 4e campaign I'm running hits Paragon and we take a bit of a break.

Looking forward to the final round!


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## CleverNickName (Nov 10, 2009)

Way to go, IVV!  It's somewhat comforting to know that I lost to a finalist.  

Nifft, I know that you were hoping to compete in the next Iron DM tournament.  Do you have any idea who would take your place as judge, if your wish were granted?  I'm not a Rat Bastard DM, but my players will vouch for me being both a rat and a bastard for nearly twenty years.  I'd be happy to try my hand at judging.

But I'd be happy to compete again, too...so don't worry about any hurt feelers if I'm not cut out for judging.  I just thought I'd offer.


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## Thasmodious (Nov 10, 2009)

Congrats to IVV and Iron Sky.  Blow us away in the final round or we'll pelt you with rotten e-vegetables!


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## Iron Sky (Nov 10, 2009)

For final match times, normally weekends would be fine, but this weekend I might be traveling across the state for a tournament.  I'm not positive if I'm going yet, but if I do, I'll be unavailable from Friday afternoon until Sunday morning...

During the week is usually find for me(though tomorrow I got an odd job so I'm going to be working 9:30am to 9pm).  Wed-Thurs works for me (though probably not for IVV).

I'll decide in the next day or to whether I'm going to the tournament or not and I'll let you guys know as soon as I make up my mind.


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 10, 2009)

I can swing a Thurs-Fri competition if that will work with Iron Sky.

Congratulations, and I look forward to our battle!


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## Nifft (Nov 10, 2009)

CleverNickName said:


> Nifft, I know that you were hoping to compete in the next Iron DM tournament.  Do you have any idea who would take your place as judge, if your wish were granted?



 Eh, no idea. This is our first multi-judge tournament. It seems to be working pretty well.

Honestly, while I'd love to compete, it's also been a load of fun to judge -- it is a lot of work, but splitting up the early rounds helped a great deal.

My advice to a perspective judge: start a thread in 2-3 months saying, "HEY I WANNA IRONDM, who will co-judge with me?"

That's also pretty much my advice to anyone who enjoyed (reading or participating in) the contest, and wants another one: wait 2-3 months and post about how you want to compete in... uh... *IronDM*: Ratty Valentines Day Edition.

- - -

Anyway. Scheduling for the FINAL MATCH. Thu-Fri sounds fine.

Thanks, -- N


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## Iron Sky (Nov 10, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> I can swing a Thurs-Fri competition if that will work with Iron Sky.
> 
> Congratulations, and I look forward to our battle!




That should work for me as well.

I'm looking forward to it too!


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## Nifft (Nov 11, 2009)

Just so we're all on EXACTLY the same page: final match will start Thursday at HIGH NOON, Eastern Standard Time (aka EN World time).

Cheers, -- N


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## Iron Sky (Nov 11, 2009)

So... 5am my time.  Guess I'm getting up early this Thursday!

While I'm here, I was wondering how you guys come up with the ingredient lists.  I looked up a bunch of random word generators on the internet, but they are a bit too random(and aren't likely to pump out D&D magic items).

Do you have guidelines among the judges for exactly what the ingredient list should include?


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## Nifft (Nov 11, 2009)

Iron Sky said:


> While I'm here, I was wondering how you guys come up with the ingredient lists.



 Dark and terrible magic. Also chickens.



Iron Sky said:


> Do you have guidelines among the judges for exactly what the ingredient list should include?



 Yes, we do.

- - -

Now for the halfway helpful portion of our program: the final round of IronDM has traditionally contained not just six base ingredients, but also a bonus ingredient, which is optional -- poor use (or omission) won't be counted against you, but good use will be counted in your favor. Or your opponent's favor.

The bonus ingredient will be clearly marked as such.

"_Mua-ha-ha-ha-ha!_", -- N


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## Meladorn (Nov 11, 2009)

Nifft said:


> For an archive of past tournaments -- which make for a great read -- see here:
> http://www.aquerra.com/IRON_DM/main_archive.htm




Just thought I'd de-lurk to say I'm enjoying the contest!

There's some really creative stuff been put forwards. It's certainly a good place to mine for ideas to put into my own game.

Nifft - The above link appears to be broken. I'd like to read some of the entries from previous competitions. Any chance of it being repaired?


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## Nifft (Nov 11, 2009)

Meladorn said:


> Nifft - The above link appears to be broken. I'd like to read some of the entries from previous competitions. Any chance of it being repaired?



 Huh, it did work when I posted it. I'll check with the Rat in charge.

Thanks, -- N


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## phoamslinger (Nov 11, 2009)

this last one should be fun.  I anticipate much head slamming into walls.  

everyone else bring your popcorn.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 11, 2009)

That's ominous... bring it!


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 12, 2009)

Why, is "head slamming into walls" an ingredient?


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## Nifft (Nov 12, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> Why, is "head slamming into walls" an ingredient?



 Nah, it's just a common symptom. 

Cheers, -- N


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## CleverNickName (Nov 12, 2009)

So.  What was everyone's favorite ingredient in this competition so far?

Even though it wasn't in my competition, I think mine was the Invisible Tavern.  That was a seriously hard ingredient...I'm glad that I didn't have to write an adventure with that.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 12, 2009)

That would be a tough ingredient though.  My brain is already trying to figure out what the hell I'd do with that...


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## Nifft (Nov 12, 2009)

Why do things want to pull me away from the computer exactly at the hour when I need to post. Argh.

Guys, please let me know if I've inconvenienced you with the delayed ingredients. We can throw you an extra hour or two in compensation, since this ain't noon.

Thanks, -- N


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## Wik (Nov 12, 2009)

Oo!  The idea of being on the judge's side could be an interesting prospect.  I have all sorts of fun little ingredients lurking inside my fiendish head.  

as for my favourite ingredient from the competition... I dunno.  There were a lot of good ones.  I think "original skull", from the very first entry, ranks pretty high up there.  And "military draft" was my favourite from the ones I received, even though it was a PAININTHEBUTT to figure out in person.  

Anyways, looking forward to the next competition.


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 12, 2009)

Wik said:


> Oo!  The idea of being on the judge's side could be an interesting prospect.  I have all sorts of fun little ingredients lurking inside my fiendish head.




It is not at all unusual: the first thing a new competitor wants to do after suffering completing Iron DM, he wants to try his hand at tyranny judging.


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## Pour (Nov 12, 2009)

Good luck to the both of you and definitely count me in for the next competition.


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## renau1g (Nov 12, 2009)

Oh I can't wait. I missed the initial call and would love to try my hand at it in the future 

Good Luck IVV


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## Nifft (Nov 12, 2009)

Meladorn said:


> Nifft - The above link appears to be broken. I'd like to read some of the entries from previous competitions. Any chance of it being repaired?



 For what it's worth, you can see the "cached" archives using Google: site:www.aquerra.com "IRON DM" - Google Search

Cheers, -- N


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## Nifft (Nov 12, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> It is not at all unusual: the first thing a new competitor wants to do after suffering completing Iron DM, he wants to try his hand at tyranny judging.



 It's like a special kind of Stockholm Syndrome.

Cheers, -- N


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 12, 2009)

Nice set of ingredients. Off to work!


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## Wik (Nov 12, 2009)

Nifft said:


> It's like a special kind of Stockholm Syndrome.
> 
> Cheers, -- N




Yeah.  Hey, Nifft... your ingredients are 1) Gnomish Dominatrix; 2) Animated Statue; 3) Ketchup Chips; 4) Plastic Surgery Gone Wrong; 5) Funny smell; and 6) Why Wik is Awesome.

....Go!


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 12, 2009)

Wik said:


> Yeah. Hey, Nifft... your ingredients are 1) Gnomish Dominatrix; 2) Animated Statue; 3) Ketchup Chips; 4) Plastic Surgery Gone Wrong; 5) Funny smell; and 6) Why Wik is Awesome.
> 
> ....Go!




Easy...

Read "Paridon Book 1" in my sig.


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## Nifft (Nov 12, 2009)

Wik said:


> Yeah.  Hey, Nifft... your ingredients are 1) Gnomish Dominatrix; 2) Animated Statue; 3) Ketchup Chips; 4) Plastic Surgery Gone Wrong; 5) Funny smell; and 6) Why Wik is Awesome.



 I have no opponent?

My entire entry follows: [sblock] Nachos, mmmmmmm. [/sblock]

"_With Cheese By Default_", -- N


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## Wik (Nov 12, 2009)

Well, Nifft, since you have no opponent, I guess you win by default.  Which is good for you, since I didn't really believe the nachos made for a balanced/believable opponent.


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## humble minion (Nov 13, 2009)

Wik said:


> Yeah.  Hey, Nifft... your ingredients are 1) Gnomish Dominatrix; 2) Animated Statue; 3) Ketchup Chips; 4) Plastic Surgery Gone Wrong; 5) Funny smell; and 6) Why Wik is Awesome.
> 
> ....Go!




*cough*

Sir Ebbet Whywik is a great paladin hero, but he's missing.  PCs are hired to find him, cos an orc horde is approaching and heroes are kinda needed.  And Ebbet, as is probably needs to be pointed out, is awesome.

Investigation reveals that Ebbet had been acting strangely recently - sneaking off to seedy areas of the city in the middle of the night, etc.  

Ebbet was seen in the redlight district wearing a concealing hooded cloak and carrying ketchup chips - the dietary vows of his order forbid deepfried foods cos they lead to pudgy paladins, but the chef will tell the PCs that the chips he ordered were the special favourite of Gilda Fiddlesticks, gnome dominatrix.  Ebbet's dirty secret was that he'd been a client of hers for some years.  Hey, paladins have needs too.  She'll try to run, PCs will have to get through her bodyguards and catch her to question her.  PCs chasing her will be attacked by an animated statue of Ebbet (sculpted after he killed a dragon threatening the city)

It seems that Ebbet had been suffering mid-life crisis, and she'd recommended a chirurgeon (Dr Skenge) to help restore his hair, remove wrinkles, lift saggy bits, etc.  Gilda hasn't heard of him since, and is worried, especially with the orcs coming and given that she was attacked by thugs yesterday.

Turns out Skenge messed up and Ebbet died on the table.  The problem was that he tried to 'borrow' some bits of Ebbet figuring that parts of a powerful paladin would help boost the flesh golem he's building in the basement, and he took a bit too much.  PCs can discover the hidden basement in Skenge's surgery by following the funny smell that's emanating from down there (Ebbet's been missing for a few days, after all...).

They'll fight the golem, and capture Skenge, who'll claim that when Ebbet died he put his spirit in a statue for safe keeping, hoping to bring him back later.  The statue escaped, and had enough of Ebbet's mind left in it to attack people who he percieved as threatening Gilda (ain't love tragic?)  So the PCs killed him accidentally, and now his soul is irretrievable and beyond resurrection.  Oops.

PCs then need to fake up a convincing death scene for Ebbet before the orcs arrive, since having the whole story (honestly - a _gnome_ with a riding dog crop - he had noble daughters throwing themselves at him left, right, and centre...) get out would be too embarrassing for the paladins and demoralising for the city, (and awkward for the PCs) with war looming.  Ebbet's meant to be awesome, after all.

How do I do, Wik?


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## Wik (Nov 13, 2009)

humble minion said:


> How do I do, Wik?





You get a hundred points in my book.  Much better than, *ahem*, "Nachoes".    You win the title of "Plasticine DM".  

Now I really want to be a judge.  Though, I promise, there'll be no gnomish dominatrices.

...they'll be orcs, instead.


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## Meladorn (Nov 13, 2009)

Nifft said:


> For what it's worth, you can see the "cached" archives using Google: site:www.aquerra.com "IRON DM" - Google Search
> 
> Cheers, -- N




Thanks Nifft, you're a champ


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## Iron Sky (Nov 13, 2009)

So, my entry is up here.  I actually found this one easier than the last one - the ingredients just synergized better to me.  I originally didn't have the Giant Mafia in there though, so I had to do some serious re-working to integrate them.

Hope you guys enjoy it.  Looking forward to seeing what you come up with IVV!

Edit: In a further note, this one took much less time than the last few to write - probably only about 6 hours total, including brainstorming, editing, revision, and post formatting.  Either I'm getting faster at this or I'm burned out and can't see some catastrophic flaw(s) with what I just wrote.

Regardless, it's been a blast!


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## CleverNickName (Nov 13, 2009)

Wow...that list is pretty cool.  Good luck in the finals, guys.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 14, 2009)

It's so quiet in here...


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## Nai_Calus (Nov 14, 2009)

OK, that was awesome and I want to play it right now, IS.


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 14, 2009)

My submission is up.

I enjoyed writing this. Thanks for the competition, this has been terrific!


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## Nifft (Nov 14, 2009)

Excellent.

Links updated, coffee drunk, time for me to get reading.

Thanks, -- N


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## Iron Sky (Nov 14, 2009)

Great entry IVV.  The description in the alleyway sequences is especially well-written and evocative.

The pictures were well used too - the last one is especially cool.  I know it's a massive ice sheet, but it sure looks like some bleak elemental plane.

It kinda sucks to be an NPC in most RPGs, but this adventure especially.  3/4 of the friendly NPCs meet their demise in some terrible fashion!  (I'm assuming Squort becomes giant food, but whatever use a cloud giant has for a halfling can't be pleasant).

I didn't even think to include pictures, even though I had several that were inspiration for mine during the brainstorming process(attached below).

Looking forward to seeing the judgments!

Edit: I just realized that my Sig would make for pretty decent ingredients in one of these challenges!  Maybe I'll make a Iron SH Challenge - give 15 element ingredient list and people have a year to write a Story Hour about them.


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## Nifft (Nov 14, 2009)

Those are some very different entries!

I may have to sleep on this one.

Cheers, -- N


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## Sparky (Nov 15, 2009)

Good luck, gents!


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## Radiating Gnome (Nov 15, 2009)

Well, looks like the early bird doesn't have to summarize the worm.  

My judgement landed first, here: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/266192-iron-dm-2009-all-matches-5.html#post4998108

Thanks to both of you -- I really enjoyed both entries immensely.  And thanks to everyone who played . . . you all rock!

-rg


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## phoamslinger (Nov 15, 2009)

Nifft said:


> Those are some very different entries!
> 
> I may have to sleep on this one.
> 
> Cheers, -- N




...and thus, as the penguin slept in his penguin bed, the crafty slinger of phoam crept into the igloo and slid his judgment upon the submissions desk.  when the penguin awoke, he would find that it would be he who wrote the final summary of the EN World Iron DM of '09.  wishing pleasant dreams to the penguin, the slinger snuck back out again...


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## Nifft (Nov 15, 2009)

phoamslinger said:


> ...and thus, as the penguin slept in his penguin bed, the crafty slinger of phoam crept into the igloo and slid his judgment upon the submissions desk.  when the penguin awoke, he would find that it would be he who wrote the final summary of the EN World Iron DM of '09.  wishing pleasant dreams to the penguin, the slinger snuck back out again...



 Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Links updated, summary soon.

Cheers, -- N


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## Nifft (Nov 15, 2009)

Summary is up. It's interesting how we all voted.

Once more, thanks to all contestants. Hope to see this contest become a more regular thing.


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 15, 2009)

Thanks, Nifft, for running this whole thing together. 

Iron Sky, that was an excellent final round, and congratulations!

I think I can work on the plot there--for example, the party can retreat to the piranha tank room to regroup and strategize, and the giants are too large to follow. There would still be ways to trick the giants into breaking the flagstone, but I suppose I should have given hardness/hp to the flagstone and described what would happen if the PCs shattered it instead of the giants. Enchantment spells could help here. 

Hey, perhaps they would have to find one of the mirrors in the Night Realm and escape back to the real world that way. That could work. Nifft, you're right that Hell's Close could fall. Since everyone except Alora was dead anyway, the loss wouldn't be so great, and ushering Alora back to the real world would be interesting. 

I think the one other thing I think about in my games is my preference for lower levels. To be honest, I've never played/DMed a game where the PCs were higher than 5th level for the last decade. Even the cross-eyed beholder wouldn't require high-level characters, since none of the monsters presented were there to be fought. The side effect is that I'm no stranger to otherwise "impossible" scenarios. I've played an unarmed, unarmored first-level halfling fighter who actually came really close to defeating an ogre mage singlehandedly (I pulled a scroll case off his belt, and jammed it down his windpipe when he tried to eat me, then tried to bull rush him off the edge of a pit while he was choking... didn't quite work, but everyone watched in awe). Since I've always felt that there was a lack of low-level adventures (I feel it all the time), I try to build my adventures that way, with the full expectation that some challenges are not meant to be directly defeated.

I really want to thank the judges for running this. I've now got a few items that I'll want to build for other adventures, and have become more confident in my adventure writing ability. And I've got to go flesh out the Family of the First Sun now.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 16, 2009)

Thanks IVV and great round to you as well.  I didn't even get the dual-meaning of Fairy/Flaming Dragon until it was pointed out - and I love word plays!  I got a laugh out of it.

A huge thank-you to the judges for running this whole contest.  It was a huge creativity-stirrer for me and has me interested in writing adventures again vs. winging/ad-libbing 95% of my DMing.  Until this thread, I hadn't actually written an adventure since our last 2e campaign that ended just before 3e came out!  That's going to change in the future, methinks.



InVinoVeritas said:


> I think the one other thing I think about in my games is my preference for lower levels.




Up until 4e came out, I shared the preference.  Now I have far less problem with higher levels since 4e makes it so much easier to run and play.  My SH campaign also was the first time I was comfortable with "over-the-top", fantastic settings; a good transition to 4e as well.


A few comments on the summaries, there are two things I did want to say in my Giant Mafia's defense.

From the thefreedictionary.com:

gi·ant  _n._*1. **
a. * A person or thing of great size.
*b. *_ A person or thing of extraordinary power, significance, or importance_

I aimed for my Mafia to fulfill both definitions and I'm thinking from the summaries, the judging focus was mostly on the first definition and not on the second(exception: phoamslinger).  A mafia that controls the majority of crime organizations _everywhere_ from behind the scenes fits definition *b*, even my use of definition *a* wasn't as integral.  IMHO IIRC FWIW OMG LOL .

As for "Mafia-ness," its name was Cosa Nesunna(latin for "No Thing") vs the real mafia's Cosa Nostra("Our Thing").  They bolth collect protection money and deal in weapons, have the Omerta code of silence about mafia dealings, are run by capos, etc.  I had hoped when writing it that sprinkling these "flavor bits" through-out would obviate the need to spend 2 pages of precious written real estate of detailing such things.  Not sure how I could have done that differently without using up another page or two.


I also left out NPCs and further details since my entry was 7 pages long already (still gun-shy from my 1st-round 13 page behemoth).  I had/have tons of ideas to fill up the Far City with, but I figured you guys didn't want to wade through a 20-page final entry.  Besides, the Far City itself wasn't an ingredient, so I figured I wouldn't get credit for further embellishment anyway...

Nifft, you're totally right about those rumors.  A couple like the ones you pointed out were pretty blatant info-drops - "Hey PCs, here's something you need to do later!  I can't figure out a better way of letting you know what to do when you are there, so HERE!"  If I spent more time polishing this one, there'd probably be better and more subtle way of getting the info to the players.

Edit: I was also originally thinking of using aboleths too, then changed my mind (for some reason that I don't remember at the moment).  I really have no idea why I didn't, especially with the piranha canals (that I added later).  Would make alot of sense.


Anyway, that's all just minor squibbly-bits.

Radiating Gnome, Nifft, phoamslinger, you guys volunteered to invest your time to run this and put in a lot of time and effort to make it happen.  For that I am grateful.

Thanks also to everyone who participated, I really enjoyed reading through your entries.  This thread was like an explosion of creativity.

Looking forward to the next Iron DM - as long as it isn't too soon, I need time for my brain to recover!  I also throw my name in the hat for judging the next one, if you guys are looking for more people.


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## InVinoVeritas (Nov 16, 2009)

Cosa Nessuna did give me a laugh, Iron Sky--that was clever. 

I'll have to take a look at how 4e runs in high levels--I've never played or run anything in 4e, and I honestly don't know how to get started. 

And mad props to our judges, too; phoamslinger, Radiating Gnome, and Nifft, that's a lot of work you dedicated to make this happen. I might just be willing to help judge next time.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 16, 2009)

InVinoVeritas said:


> I'll have to take a look at how 4e runs in high levels--I've never played or run anything in 4e, and I honestly don't know how to get started.




We've found that the speed of combat, at least, seems to mostly increase with the amount of status effects being thrown around.  I've developed a pretty decent system for tracking them on my laptop as I run combats, so it doesn't take too much time.

There's also a wide variance depending on how long your players take on their turns.  Our players vary anywhere from taking about 15 seconds on an average turn to a minute or three.

As to where to get started, I'd say get the PHB and look online for Raiders of Oakhurst (an EN-made adventure), whip up some characters and give it a go.  I was pretty sold just by running test combats with stuff put together by ENWorlders before the game came out.


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## SigmaX0 (Nov 16, 2009)

I just wanted to say a big thank you to all the contestants and judges for a tremendously entertaining competition, I enjoyed reading all the entries and judgments.

Iron Sky I love your writing and congrats on a well earned victory!


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## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 16, 2009)

Well done, all.


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## Wicht (Nov 16, 2009)

Congragulations Iron Sky.

And a well done to everyone involved.  Here's hoping to see this again soon.


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## Sparky (Nov 16, 2009)

Congrats Iron Sky!

Thanks to the judges and the other participants for a fun Iron DM. It was the first time I participated, and I'll think about it again for the future. 

So.

Who do I send my ingredient ideas to?


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## Iron Sky (Nov 16, 2009)

Sparky said:


> Who do I send my ingredient ideas to?




Heh, when I was in the shower today, I had tons of interesting ingredients running through my head.


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## Wik (Nov 16, 2009)

You and me both, Iron Sky.  I should start putting together a list of them, or something.  Y'know, in preparation.

Congrats on your win.  And it makes me feel rewarded to know that, if I had to lose, at least I lost to the eventual contest winner.


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## Nifft (Nov 17, 2009)

Wulf Ratbane said:


> Well done, all.



 Something occurred to me -- far too late to do anything about it, but I wanted to get it off my chest.

Next time you're being all magnanimous and honorable, at least request the same treatment for yourself! IMHO you could have gotten good use from a few extra hours, and there's no harm in asking. I've been kicking myself for not thinking of it in time... but there's always next time.

"_May that next time be soon!_", -- N


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## Thasmodious (Nov 17, 2009)

Iron Sky said:
			
		

> Heh, when I was in the shower today







			
				Wik said:
			
		

> You and me both, Iron Sky.






Congrats to Iron Sky and IVV on a great last round and Iron Sky for the Iron DM crown.  It was a fun competition and I would definitely do it again.  Thanks to Nifft for getting it going and the judges in general for running it throughout.


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## Iron Sky (Nov 17, 2009)

Thasmodious said:


>




LMFAO.  Not only was our match super close, that sure makes it look like we are too...


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