# Magic in ENWorld?



## DKS (Jul 7, 2008)

Greetings, I'm a frequent poster of WotC Abominations entitled Gleemax. I'm pretty confident that there has been at least a few suggestions of finding a Magic community over here, but I'd like to still make an offer.

Right now, I shouldn't have to explain over and over how bad WotC boards are messed up. We all know it, Gamer_Zer0 is a bitch, etc.

Competitive Magic players on the WotC forums are having problems finding a good community. The examples have led us to believe that non-WotC forums provide a better atmosphere when it comes to MTG Discussion. The Mana Drain, a forum run by Vintage format Team of Magic, is currently the best forums on the internet concerning Vintage. 

Standard format, albeit more popular and more accessible, doesn't still have such a forum. StarCityGames forums provide some insight, but still it's not a lot, because most of the frequents there are just discussing premium articles and working on netdecks with known debates. MTG Salvation is a fuzzy atmosphere, but isn't exactly competitive.

A few friends of mine and I want to get a ball rolling. We're a solid 10-15 people that make that core of the T2 and if we find ourselves a new home, we'll move. Most of us are the "good boys" of the forums, that we know how to handle bureaucratic dealings (Thank you, WotC and CS!), we obey CoC, and we can spell just fine. We have a base of very influental posters on the WotC and thus will potentially lead their way over here.

As explained by a High Ranking WizO herself, WotC forums care for numbers and ordinariness. Even during WizO era forums were meant to appeal to mainstream and not just strictly competitive players. This is a fraustration on our end. We're either forced to make a website of our own, which is hard because I have no idea how to handle one; free forums are awful, and well... See where I'm leading at?

I know MM from the DnD board back when he was working at WotC and know hard he worked for it. He is the sole reason I've picked here - I've seen a good atmosphere here, friendly, and a forum that just doesn't suck. I've been a moderator at other forums and a GameMaster at WotC so I know about forum management and moderation, I can work with established moderators of this place for further bolding the outlines of the forum we're aiming at and discuss its fine point. 

Why should ENWorld care about Magic? Well, I don't know.  I'm sure there's a bunch of Magic players that just won't mind having a good Magic discussion over here (For example, three forums dedicated to Magic: General, T2, Others & Casual?) that doesn't suck half as bad as WotC Magic General or T2. 

If you've made it this far, I'd like to hear what regular posters and overlords of these forums have to say. Thank you for your time.


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## Umbran (Jul 7, 2008)

Ultimately, the man who makes the decisions is Morrus.  

In the past, we've kept to the basic idea that our forums are dedicated mostly to RPGs.  We do allow some discussion of other stuff that's of common interest to RPG players, so we do have a Media and Off Topic forums.  

We also tend to wait until we see a sustained level of traffic on a particular topic before we create a new forum for it.  We don't currently have enough traffic on non-role-playing games to support an entire forum for such.

I do not know if Morrus is interested in supporting Magic discussion.  You might want to contact him about the options directly by e-mail.  His address can be found in the "How to contact a moderator" post sticked to the top of the Meta Forum.


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## Morrus (Jul 7, 2008)

It's not somethign I've ever given any thought; and I've personally never played a single game of Magic in my life.  However, neither is it an idea I'd have any conceptual objection to.

I'd be interested to hear what people at large think.

I'm away this week, so may be able to pop in and offer a brief comment, but won't really be able to delve into anything until the weekend and the earliest (visiting the parents - mainly because that's the only way I can get my birthday presents!)


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## Blackrat (Jul 7, 2008)

Morrus said:


> I'd be interested to hear what people at large think.




Since you asked... I think it might be a good idea to put up, say one forum dedicated to CC games. At least at first, if it proves to become popular you might consider making subforums for it or something. I don't know what it takes on your part to create one more forum, so if it's actually a big hassle, then I understand the hesitation. But on general, I think ENWorld is the best suited place to hold such forum, because of our friendly athmosphere which can't be said for many too many boards. Thanks to the rules you've been upholding, we are propably the one place where Magic (and other) gamers might even feel welcome, even if it's not strictly RPG related (though RPG's are where the roots of CCG's lie).

Anyways, just my 2 cents since you asked...


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## Crothian (Jul 7, 2008)

Where do the board game threads get placed?  Is it off topic or general?  I imagine MAgic would goto the same place.


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## Umbran (Jul 7, 2008)

Crothian said:


> Where do the board game threads get placed?  Is it off topic or general?  I imagine MAgic would goto the same place.




I don't think we've been particularly worried about which, given how uncommon they are.


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## Knightfall (Jul 7, 2008)

Perhaps it would be best to create an "Other Games" fourm that would support not only CCGs but board games as well.

Just my 2 cents...


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## Nifft (Jul 7, 2008)

The questions I'd have are:

1/ How much cross-over is there between M:tG and D&D / RPG playing?

2/ How hard is it to segment advertising so CCG adds tend to appear in the CCG forum?

3/ Other than WotC, are there enough CCG manufacturers who are willing to buy ad space? (Not that there's anything wrong with WotC buying space, of course.)

Cheers, -- N


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## Angel Tarragon (Jul 7, 2008)

Crothian said:


> Where do the board game threads get placed?  Is it off topic or general?  I imagine MAgic would goto the same place.




Merric B is the one that brings up the subject more often than not, and it usually goes in off topic.


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## Plane Sailing (Jul 8, 2008)

Crothian said:


> Where do the board game threads get placed?  Is it off topic or general?  I imagine MAgic would goto the same place.




I can think of a number of board games I'd be happy to discuss (probably with people that have long memories though!). I could imagine that a forum which supported "CCG and Boardgames" might prove an interesting addition to ENworld.

An interesting thought, certainly.


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## WhatGravitas (Jul 8, 2008)

Plane Sailing said:


> I can think of a number of board games I'd be happy to discuss (probably with people that have long memories though!). I could imagine that a forum which supported "CCG and Boardgames" might prove an interesting addition to ENworld.



Agreed, though I'd add something for wargames as well, I've seen some RPG players who cross over to wargaming. Another board for "other games" for everything you play on a table (like CCGs and wargames  ) would be definitively interesting, after all, we already have a media lounge, software corner (with PC games), and artwork corner. "Other games" would fit pretty well into that category.

(side note: Shouldn't this entire thread be in Meta?  )

Cheers, LT.


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## blargney the second (Jul 8, 2008)

I could certainly see the utility in a CCG & Board Games forum, with a thought to split off CCG into its own if it really takes off.  Where do collectable minis games like D&D Minis go right now?  If there isn't currently a spot for them, a little home in there as well mightn't hurt.
-blarg


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## Michael Morris (Jul 8, 2008)

We could start with an other games forum and use thread tags and prefixes for specific games. I personally adore Magic and wouldn't mind having a forum for it, but it would be a step towards making the board more general fantasy related instead of D&D/RPG related. And to echo Umbran, ultimately it is Russ' call.


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## Jok3R (Jul 8, 2008)

As someone who would transition over to ENWorld given an MtG forum, I'd like to say that those that would join under Kedi's and my suggestion would be those that we find to be very competent competitive players with a great deal of insight into the meta and the game.  While few of those would be versed in a more casual atmosphere, we would all strive to help anyone in whatever ways needed/asked for.  And who knows, some of us may join the rpging community in turn.


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## Plane Sailing (Jul 8, 2008)

Lord Tirian said:


> (side note: Shouldn't this entire thread be in Meta?  )




Uh, it is ?


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## WhatGravitas (Jul 8, 2008)

Plane Sailing said:


> Uh, it is ?



It already was? Oops... ah, the dangers of tabbed browsing! 

Cheers, LT.


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## Jok3R (Jul 8, 2008)

If you'd like, we can supply some lists to show our expertise with the game (most activity will be in Standard, though Ext and Block will draw during their seasons and Vintage always has a certain following.).


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## Eridanis (Jul 8, 2008)

Michael Morris said:


> We could start with an other games forum and use thread tags and prefixes for specific games. I personally adore Magic and wouldn't mind having a forum for it, but it would be a step towards making the board more general fantasy related instead of D&D/RPG related. And to echo Umbran, ultimately it is Russ' call.



Ditto. I've been playing M:tG since Revised, and I'd love to have some Magic discussion here, as well as more general boardgamegeek.com-type topics.


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## Charwoman Gene (Jul 8, 2008)

I like the idea of an other games forum


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## Holy Bovine (Jul 8, 2008)

Count me as one who would love a forum for CCGs and Board Games.  If they are popular enough they could even be split into separate forums int he future.


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## Thanee (Jul 8, 2008)

Jok3R said:


> If you'd like, we can supply some lists to show our expertise with the game (most activity will be in Standard, though Ext and Block will draw during their seasons and Vintage always has a certain following.).




I really don't think that would be a deciding factor (even though it is certainly helpful if you know what you are talking about ).

Bye
Thanee


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## el-remmen (Jul 8, 2008)

I have just recently gotten back into Magic - I am not a competitive player by any means (mostly b/c I refuse to play with any of those newer "windows" cards and have not bought a booster since Visions came out, or maybe it was Weatherlight. . .), but I would be down to discuss the game and throw ideas around.

I think a general CCG or "Other Games" forums would probably be the starting point before anything more specific, and certainly should not be limited to competitive play.


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## Umbran (Jul 8, 2008)

Jok3R said:


> If you'd like, we can supply some lists to show our expertise with the game




Your expertise is _completely irrelevant_.  We are not hiring you to come in and be subject matter experts, or something.  

We should, perhaps, be clear about that - unless you work out some hosted forum deal with Morrus, this would be a forum for all EN World, both experts and new players.


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## Brown Jenkin (Jul 8, 2008)

Whether the Magic players come over or not I am in favor of an other games Forum. For me it would be for the board games. While I browse ENWorld because of my weekly RPG fix, when it comes to Origins and Gen Con I am one of the primary organizers of Rogue Judges which specialize mostly in Board and Non-Collectable card games. I would be happy to have a place to get both of my fixes in one place.


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## Morrus (Jul 8, 2008)

Just checking in from my brother's house - it sounds like a CCG & Boardgames forum is the way to go, expanding it if and when traffic warrants.


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## Jok3R (Jul 8, 2008)

Umbran said:


> Your expertise is _completely irrelevant_.  We are not hiring you to come in and be subject matter experts, or something.
> 
> We should, perhaps, be clear about that - unless you work out some hosted forum deal with Morrus, this would be a forum for all EN World, both experts and new players.



Perhaps you misunderstand.  The post was poorly worded, I suppose.  I just want to make it clear that if Morrus and ENWorld are willing to contribute space, you would like to make sure it is for a worthwhile cause to both yourselves and those you open up for.  For the "yourselves" portion, learning if the outsiders can and are willing to also help out would be of the utmost importance, would it not?


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## Knight Otu (Jul 8, 2008)

Adding my voice in support of an "Other Games" or "CCG & Board Games" forum. While I no longer play, I am still very interested in the paths that MtG takes, and follow the official site as well as the Salvation Rumor Mill.


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## xmanii (Jul 9, 2008)

Morrus said:


> Just checking in from my brother's house - it sounds like a CCG & Boardgames forum is the way to go, expanding it if and when traffic warrants.




Woot! I know this is something I will be checking out, as I have recently started playing M:tG again


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## WhatGravitas (Jul 9, 2008)

xmanii said:


> Woot! I know this is something I will be checking out, as I have recently started playing M:tG again



Hehe. This makes me happy as well. I've dropped playing MtG as in trying out FNM tournaments or playing by the various formats... but I still love my EDH deck (and keep getting occasional cards for it)!

Nice to see that we get a place for discussing that stuff here!

Cheers, LT.


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## Morrus (Jul 9, 2008)

OK, it is done.  There's a nw forum called "Board Games & CCGs".  

We'll watch the traffic level and expand it beyond that to accomodate the need if it's warranted.  But this should be good for a start.

I've also copied this thread over to it.


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## Brown Jenkin (Jul 10, 2008)

Morrus said:


> OK, it is done.  There's a nw forum called "Board Games & CCGs".
> 
> We'll watch the traffic level and expand it beyond that to accomodate the need if it's warranted.  But this should be good for a start.
> 
> I've also copied this thread over to it.




I've been checking Meta to see how this goes and was pleasantly surprided to see the thread had been moved to its new home.


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## Jok3R (Jul 10, 2008)

Morrus said:


> OK, it is done.  There's a nw forum called "Board Games & CCGs".
> 
> We'll watch the traffic level and expand it beyond that to accomodate the need if it's warranted.  But this should be good for a start.
> 
> I've also copied this thread over to it.



Thank you very much.


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