# PotC: At World's End (reactions, spoilers!)



## Mouseferatu (May 25, 2007)

Piratey night tonight.

I liked _At World's End_. I did. It's a good movie.

But that said, I think it's the weakest of the three. It just lacked some of the spark of the previous two, and it could have used some tighter editing. There were a few points where it felt a bit ponderous.

Still, the least good of a great trilogy is still pretty good. And the action set pieces are friggin' amazing.

A few warnings, though. First, don't assume you can turn your brain off. While I don't understand the critics claiming it was "impossible to follow"--I can only assume they were drunk--it does require that you pay attention and piece some things together.

Second, it's even more "out there" than the second movie was. The first _Pirates_ movie was a period action movie with a heavy supernatural element. This one? This is a fantasy movie, pure and simple. The fact that it's set in a different time period than most doesn't matter; it's no less a fantasy than _Lord of the Rings_ or _Chronicles of Narnia_. I think that change in feel may bother some people. Even I, huge fantasy fan that I am, took some time to get used to it.

I think there's room for more in the series, and I believe I read that Depp was up for it. But if so, it needs to focus on Sparrow, Barbossa, and some new characters. No more Elizabeth, no more Will. Their stories are done, fully and completely. We need never see those characters on screen again.

But there's more fun to be had with Jack and Hector.

Overall? I'd give it a 7, maybe 7.5, out of 10.


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## Hypersmurf (May 25, 2007)

There were parts that were too long, and the Jack-talks-to-himself scenes didn't work for me.

The fight in Singapore - unlike most other fights in the films so far, I thought, but like so many of Hollywood's fights today - was filmed too chaotic and close-in to really appreciate any of the action.

I didn't care for Giant Calypso at all.

I think I'd agree with "weakest of the three".

That said, I'd go see it again   Monkey Jack stole every scene he was in   I loved the layers upon layers upon layers of betrayals.  And the last forty-five minutes or so were pure unsullied awesomeness - despite having just as much chaos as the Singapore fight, it didn't get so messy that you couldn't follow stuff.

Someone made a comment when the trailer came out, with the Pearl and the Dutchman circling the Maelstrom shooting at each other - "I wanna play in _that_ game!"  Having seen the whole sequence, I see no reason to dilute that sentiment 

-Hyp.


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## Remathilis (May 25, 2007)

Good movie. HATED the ending. (Course, I missed the after the credits part, but it did little to redeem the ending). I guess I emotionally invested too much in all those characters to have THAT be their fates. 

Reminds me of Matrix Reloaded/Revolutions. Good movie dragged down by sequels trying to do too much. 

I've sounded off. Later.


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## Aeolius (May 25, 2007)

I'd agree that, while the movie was awesome, it was the weakest of the 3. Granted, if you consider it to be "Pirates 2.5", it works a lot better. I'd see it again in a heartbeat. I'll be getting the soundtrack and DVD, when available. 

   There were scenes that seemed to drag and others where you dare not blink, for missing the action. I'd agree that, should the series continue (PLEASE!!!), we've seen the last of Will and Elizabeth. I'll miss Tia Dalma. Davy Jones showed us how to get around Will's new "limitation", at any rate.

   Notice that Keith Richards is credited with one of the songs, in the end credits. Odd that only a handful of folks stayed around for the obligatory final scene. 

   Here's hoping that Disney World makes a ride based on the action scenes in THIS movie! capsizing ships, maelstroms, riding inbetween the Black Pearl and Flying Dutchman... now THAT'S a ride!


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## DonTadow (May 25, 2007)

I liked it a lot, and comparing it to the previous three, it does come in three, but they were all good to me (2 is the best to me). No new villians were introduced which knocked it down. It ended very well though, I thought. I'm glad there was no Disney happy ending. 

A solid 8 for me. I went in with low expectations after getting my hopes up for spidey 3. I didn't find the plot too hard to follow, but apparently a lot of reviewers did.  It's a popcorn summer movie, how hard could it be.  Apparently critics like if you don't explain something (ala spidey) than spending time to describe and explain it.  

I hope that we see a sequal but Will and elizabeth's story is over.  I thought the ending suited well. They still love each other and are together but sometimes destinies go different paths. The key is can they make a different movie than the first three with just Depp (who did say he'd be up for a fourth) and Barbosa.  I hope so.  

BTW, what happened at the end of the credits. It was 3 in the morning and though i was tempted to stay i could barely hold my eyes up.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 25, 2007)

Saw this last night and I gotta say I didnt think that it draged at all. I'm not surprised that movie critics couldnt keep up with the story (these are some of the same people who couldnt follow the first Mission Impossible movie, which had a fairly linear and typical espionage plot) it actually requires you to piece things together often at the same time that some of the characters on screen are doing the same thing.
Much of the setup from the 2nd movie is paid off here also I liked the the nods to things from the first film. 

Dead Man's Chest and At World's End are really one film and before you sit for At World's End you should sit for the first two just prior to see where all the pieces fit. Whether you like HOW they fit is up to personal preference but this film was a nice conclusion to Will and Elizabeth's story. 

And the fight around the Maelstrom was FRAKKING AWESOME. 

I do have one or two dissapointments primarily having to do with the handling of one of the heavies from Dead Man's Chest but other than that I liked it. ALOT.


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## Remathilis (May 25, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> BTW, what happened at the end of the credits. It was 3 in the morning and though i was tempted to stay i could barely hold my eyes up.




Spoiler: 



Spoiler



Will comes back to the beach, ten years later, to meet Elizabeth and Willy the third


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## Kunimatyu (May 25, 2007)

The movie was a chaotic hunk o' junk with issues, but that's not to say it wasn't entertaining. 

The "Locker" scene felt completely out of place, as did "Attack of the 50-Foot Tall Woman". The maelstrom scene was kickin' rad, and oh yeah, DAVY JONES MINDFLAYED SOMEONE. You KNOW that was a D&D shoutout!

In general, Davy was completely awesome in this movie - I loved his leering "do you fear death?" whenever a character was brought to the brink(though it would have been cooler if someone had taken him up on it), and his swordfight was amazing.

I did not like the "multiple-Jacks" scenes - I don't think we really needed to know why Jack is so crazy - but Barbossa stole the show in every scene he was in -- it was easy to see why the crew abandoned Jack for him at the end. 

The "Calypso" and "nine pieces of eight" MacGuffin stuff should never have been in the film, especialy as they weren't even hinted at in the second. I also wasn't wild about the Pirate Lords setup, it felt way too forced - pirates don't have big organizations!

In general, I think the movie would have benefited from being less fate-of-the-world -- there was plenty of drama and pathos just in the stories of the main characters, without a global East India Company plot.


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## DonTadow (May 25, 2007)

Remathilis said:
			
		

> Spoiler:
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Awesome. Tragic and happy all at the same time.


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## jonathan swift (May 25, 2007)

Count me as another one who really liked it, though I'll say it was my favorite of the three. I really liked the focus on Will as in both this and the second movie he was by far my favorite character. 

Bring on the fourth one, fountain of youth indeed.


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## DonTadow (May 25, 2007)

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Count me as another one who really liked it, though I'll say it was my favorite of the three. I really liked the focus on Will as in both this and the second movie he was by far my favorite character.
> 
> Bring on the fourth one, fountain of youth indeed.



I wasn't a big Elizabeth fan the first two movies. She came off as whiney and selfish. But this movie I really dug her character. I bought into the idea of her as a pirate this time.. I don't know what was so different this time than previously but it worked.  Will and elizabeth seemed to change the most whereas the other characters changed slightly.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 25, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> I wasn't a big Elizabeth fan the first two movies. She came off as whiney and selfish. But this movie I really dug her character. I bought into the idea of her as a pirate this time.. I don't know what was so different this time than previously but it worked.  Will and elizabeth seemed to change the most whereas the other characters changed slightly.




Which had me thinking: Who's story is this? 

I think that this is Elizabeth's story since she's the one who's changed the most throughout the course of this story. Also the fact that the movies basically begin and end (if you hung around for the coda after the credits of At the Worlds End) with her. I'd also like to think that of all of the main characters her decisions really cost her in some ways. Her decision to stand by Will at the end of Curse of the Black Pearl costs her MORE at the beginning of Dead Man's Chest because of her relationship with her father. Her decisions in Dead Man's Chest cost almost cost her Will's trust in At Wold's End. And her decision to fight in At World's End almost cost her...well you know (for those who have seen the movie). I think she more than Will has embodied the essence of what it was to be a Pirate. Will was still for the most part an honorable man, everything that he did was to fulfil some sort of obligation that he made to someone else. Elizabeth also did this but she was a bit more ruthless about it, the only difference between someone like her and Jack and Barbosa was that she feels remorse for her actions.


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## yipwyg42 (May 25, 2007)

So let me get this straight.


Spoiler

Will is the captain of the flying dutchman for eternity, or until someone stabs his heart and takes his place.  Will and Elizabeth can only meet on land once in 10 years..

I was to tired to stay past the credits and missed the last scene.

Thanks


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## DonTadow (May 25, 2007)

yipwyg42 said:
			
		

> So let me get this straight.
> 
> 
> Spoiler
> ...



spoiler

Yup that's it in a nutshell.  Though i wonde rdoes she move on with her life or does she stay married to him.


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## Remathilis (May 25, 2007)

yipwyg42 said:
			
		

> So let me get this straight.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




the [*spoiler*] tag work better since it blocks it for those people using PHB or Stealth ENworld Themes. (no *)

But yes. See my spoiler a couple up to see that. It wouldn't have been MY choice of ending I would have had Bootstrap stab the heart, become captain, and let Willibeth live happily ever after but I guess it was better than the other alternative Will was given at that moment...

Actually, my big beef was that at the end was that NOBODY really got what they wanted. Will freed his father, but lost his freedom. Elizabeth lost everyone who cared for her (Will, Norrington, her father, and Jack) and ended up alone (abit with Will popping in every 10 years and a child to take care of) Jack lost the Pearl and really only Barbosa ended up ok (He's alive, free of the Curse, has his ship, and despite losing the charts to Jack, is in a good place to pirate again). 

I dunno, CotBP was a great movie because it was a classic pirate movie with a great ending. AWE undid everything CotBP set out to do. In CotBP, Will and Liz are together, Jack got his boat and revenge, and even Norrington and Gov Swann learned sometimes Piracy has redeeming qualities. But by AWE, Will and Liz have a tragic love story, Jack lost the Pearl again, and Norrington and Swann are killed by treachery. Everything is reversed. Kinda disappointing as a wrap to a trilogy, since it was all for naught. 

Between some contrived plot-holes (didn't Bootstrap KNOW about the stab-the-heart clause in DMC? He didn't warn Will then?), pointless redactions (it IS Rules, not merely Guidelines!) and some Out-of-left-field element (Jack's Multiplicity moments got boring after a while) and the anti-climatic resolution to the Kraken (why didn't they use it finish off the Pirates?) I have to say it felt very awkward and not satisfying. 

Still, it had some great lines and set pieces, but I didn't inspire me and thrill me like CotBP or even most of DMC did.


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## Relique du Madde (May 25, 2007)

I thought the movie kicked ass, but I agree that it had too many scenes which needed to have been reduced to half their length.  Personally I liked the first "jack conversation" since ity was in the locker where he was "punished (with insanity)" but the rest of them only destroyed all of drunken brilliance behind Jack's character.

I liked the Barbosa / Jack Sparrow dichonomy...  Barbosa is experienced and ruthless, Jack is cleaver and (somewhat) cowardly and extremely flighty..  I liked how Jack and Barbosa both were able to plan ahead but where Barbosa's plans succeeded because of skill, Jack was able to manipulate things so that his successes appeared to happen only by luck.  






Also, Keith Richards should have been build as Captain Teach NOT "Captain Teague" but the fact that they obviously based Teaque on ol' Black Beard is enough for me.


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## Relique du Madde (May 25, 2007)

Remathilis said:
			
		

> the [*spoiler*] Between some contrived plot-holes (didn't Bootstrap KNOW about the stab-the-heart clause in DMC? He didn't warn Will then?), pointless redactions (it IS Rules, not merely Guidelines!) and some Out-of-left-field element (Jack's Multiplicity moments got boring after a while) and the anti-climatic resolution to the Kraken (why didn't they use it finish off the Pirates?) I have to say it felt very awkward and not satisfying.





I agree that the Kraken scene sucked, hopefully we will see it die in the dvd.  That being said, I still would have enjoyed seeing the kraken become so reckless in its destruction that it Beckette would force Davy Jones to kill it.  

I think the stabbing the heart clause becoming wide spread was something that was left on the cutting room floor or existed between DMC and AWE.  I suspect that once Beckette recieved the heart he forced Davy Jones to reveal the heart's secret (while being board the Flying Dutchman).  As a result of the secret's utterance, the Fly Dutchman's Crew would learned of the secret as a result of their being part of the ship.


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## Kunimatyu (May 25, 2007)

Can someone spoilertag the post-credits scene for me? I completely forgot to stay and watch it.


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## Hypersmurf (May 25, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Yup that's it in a nutshell.  Though i wonde rdoes she move on with her life or does she stay married to him.




I imagined two extensions of this scene.

"Well, aren't you a fine young man?  How old are you, boy?"
"Seven."  [elbow]  "I mean nine."

or

"... Will!  Not in front of the child!"

------

One of my favourite lines - "Do you think he plans it all out in advance, or just makes it up as he goes along?"

-Hyp.


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## Mouseferatu (May 25, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> "... Will!  Not in front of the child!"




See, that was very much akin to my own thought.

"Hey, great. A kid. Nice to meet him. Now send him to go play with friends. I've only got 24 hours, and it's been a _long_ dry spell..."


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## Relique du Madde (May 25, 2007)

There was one thing bothering me about the Will/Elizabeth ending..  

Spolier (even though this deals with something that was already mentioned)...


Spoiler



Assuming that the child is Will's and that Will is now "undead," what does that make the child?  Would it be human, or some kind of ghoul/ghast?  And when the child dies, will that start a Zombie plague?


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> There was one thing bothering me about the Will/Elizabeth ending..




Will isn't undead, he's immortal.

He doesn't turn all fishy and creepy unless he eschews The Duty, like Jones did after the first 10 years.

-Hyp.


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## Relique du Madde (May 26, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Will isn't undead, he's immortal.
> 
> He doesn't turn all fishy and creepy unless he eschews The Duty, like Jones did after the first 10 years.
> 
> -Hyp.




Unfortunately he did "die" and he could "die" if his heart is pierced (which means he's not truly immortal).   

 I think I was thinking of the wrong term since like you mentioned, he's not fishy (cursed).. and being undead implies some sort of curse.  So maybe, Will is "deathless" and he *MIGHT* have a divine rank of 0 (since he fills a role which is typically assigned to a god/demi-god).


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Unfortunately he did "die"...




When?  He was stabbed, but he stabbed Jones' heart before dying.  I didn't see Will die; I saw Will saved from dying by succeeding Jones.



> ... and he could "die" if his heart is pierced (which means he's not truly immortal).




Immortal in the sense of not dying of old age/natural causes.  Would you consider Odin, Thor, Balder, Horus, and the like immortal?

-Hyp.


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## ShinHakkaider (May 26, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> When?  He was stabbed, but he stabbed Jones' heart before dying.  I didn't see Will die; I saw Will saved from dying by succeeding Jones.
> -Hyp.




In that case I sure hope he wasn't alive when 'ol Bootstrap removed his heart with that knife. 

I think the stabbing of the heart is simply done to remove the old Captain of the Flying Dutchman and is also a kind of declaration of intent. The actual becoming of captain isn't solidified until your heart is removed and placed in the chest. 

That's just my interpretation of what I saw of course.


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## Aegir (May 26, 2007)

Oddly it seems to have been removed since I saw it, but the Wikipedia synopsis of the movie had this little tidbit at the end. The "after the credits" scene has more to it then is immediately obvious (*SPOILER*):



Spoiler



"After the credits, in a scene captioned "Ten Years Later," a young boy nine years and three months of age is seen singing "A Pirates Life for Me" as Elizabeth walks behind him. It is implied that this is the child of Will and Elizabeth. The sun sets followed by a green flash and Will, on the mast of The Dutchman, sails towards the shore. According to the film's writers, the curse of The Dutchman is broken if, after the ten years, the captain's lover remains faithful. The final post-credit scene suggests that Will can now return to land, as Elizabeth has remained faithful. The green flash, which symbolises a soul returning from the dead, supports this theory. Apparently, a scene of dialogue between Tia Dalma/Calypso and Davy Jones, which explained this, was cut from the film, leading to confusion about the ending."



Hopefully the DVD will have all this explained when they include said cut scene.


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## John Q. Mayhem (May 26, 2007)

I was left wondering why Elizabeth didn't just sign up on board the _Dutchman_. I mean, she wouldn't be all fishy, and she's obviously comfortable around sailors now...


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## Aegir (May 26, 2007)

John Q. Mayhem said:
			
		

> I was left wondering why Elizabeth didn't just sign up on board the _Dutchman_. I mean, she wouldn't be all fishy, and she's obviously comfortable around sailors now...




I expected Elizabeth to commit suicide, so Will could do his Davey Jones impersonation.

"Do ye fear death?"


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## jonathan swift (May 26, 2007)

Aegir said:
			
		

> I expected Elizabeth to commit suicide, so Will could do his Davey Jones impersonation.
> 
> "Do ye fear death?"





But if she was already dead then it wouldn't work. As evidenced by 



Spoiler



Norrington's death


. She'd have to just sign up.


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## Mark CMG (May 26, 2007)

Spoiler



A fountain of youth might allow Elizabeth to be there for Will every ten years, forever.


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## John Q. Mayhem (May 26, 2007)

Spoiler



Hmmm...and she didn't seem to have aged at all in that 10 years...


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## Elf Witch (May 26, 2007)

John Q. Mayhem said:
			
		

> Spoiler
> 
> 
> 
> Hmmm...and she didn't seem to have aged at all in that 10 years...




That's true but she was only around 17 at the start so she is now around 27 a lot of woman do 't age that much between those years.


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2007)

ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> In that case I sure hope he wasn't alive when 'ol Bootstrap removed his heart with that knife.
> 
> I think the stabbing of the heart is simply done to remove the old Captain of the Flying Dutchman and is also a kind of declaration of intent. The actual becoming of captain isn't solidified until your heart is removed and placed in the chest.
> 
> That's just my interpretation of what I saw of course.




Hmm.  I saw him as already being the Captain, with his first duty being to put his heart in the chest.

So removing the heart wouldn't kill him (unless Bootstrap slipped with the knife).

-Hyp.


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2007)

Aegir said:
			
		

> According to the film's writers, the curse of The Dutchman is broken if, after the ten years, the captain's lover remains faithful.




Huh.  I didn't get that at all; I got that the Dutchman was a duty, not a curse; the 'curse' (all that fishiness etc) only came on if the captain eschewed that duty.

The faithfulness of the lover had nothing to do with the curse directly; it was merely that Calypso's unfaithfulness led to Jones skipping out on his job.  It was Jones' rebellion that led to the curse; Calypso was merely a contributing factor.

-Hyp.


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## Aeric (May 26, 2007)

Aegir said:
			
		

> According to the film's writers, the curse of The Dutchman is broken if, after the ten years, the captain's lover remains faithful.




That's ridiculous.  They established in this movie that Davy Jones wasn't cursed so much as burdened with a responsibility.  He was supposed to ferry the dead to the afterlife.  If the "curse" is broken, then who's going to do that job?

Also, the green flash was said to indicate a soul's return from the (land of the) dead, and since Will wasn't dead in the first place, it wasn't significant in that respect.  It seemed to indicate that someone crossed the boundary between the worlds of the living and the dead, one way or the other.  There was a green flash when the Dutchman disappeared with Will for the first time, supporting this theory.

A lot of this movie was confusing.  For example:

Sao Feng talking to Elizabeth as if she is Calypso, and her reacting as if she was.  Someone had to explain to me that he assumed she was Calypso by the way everyone was treating her and because she was the only woman around (Tia Dalma didn't interact with Sao Feng, IIRC).  BUT, as one of the nine Pirate Lords, he must have been there when they bound her in the first place.  And I can understand Elizabeth being canny enough to go along with the misunderstanding in order to get one over on Feng, but there should have been some kind of initial reaction on her part to communicate this.  Something like "what are you talking about?  I'm not--oh!  I mean, uhh...."  Funny and effective, and certainly fitting with the tone of these movies.

I agree with previous posters that the whole Calypso thing was unneccessary.  We already knew that Jones was in love with Tia Dalma and that she wasn't faithful to him.  She didn't need to be some sea goddess for this to be important.  I figured that Calypso would be AWE's new villain, and that the two fleets would have to team up together at the end to take her out once and for all.  That would have been cool.  All she did was create a whirlpool.  Big deal.

I also found the change in story about the true nature of Davy Jones from DMC to AWE to be jarring and confusing.  In DMC, he was this sailor who was spurned by a woman, and so he reacted by becoming this terrible demon of the sea.  I can dig that, it goes along with the theme of curses established in CotBP.  In AWE, he became this sympathetic ferryman character who became twisted because of his obsession.  Why did he cut out his heart?  In DMC, it was so he would never feel the pain of Dalma's betrayal again.  In AWE, it was a job prerequisite for the ferryman.  Was it so the captain wouldn't miss his loved ones?  It obviously didn't work in Jones' case, since it was his feelings that twisted him into the monster he became.  Jones' dereliction of duty didn't make sense, either.  There were the floating bodies which were supposed to be guided by Jones to the afterlife, but what about the ones in the boats?  They seemed to be doing okay, besides, y'know, being dead.

Despite all of the confusion, there were some great elements in this movie.  All of the stuff with World's End reminded me of Baron Munchausen or Time Bandits, and the crabs inexplicibly helping Jack get the Pearl back into the water led credence to his story about sea turtles, even though we know that was a tall tale.  The town of Shipwreck was just plain amazing-looking, like something out of a Final Fantasy game.  And the pirates we met there looked awesome, especially the Spanish pirates and, of course, Teague.


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## Hypersmurf (May 26, 2007)

Aeric said:
			
		

> BUT, as one of the nine Pirate Lords, he must have been there when they bound her in the first place.




Er, no.

After all, Elizabeth is one of the nine Pirate Lords.  Therefore she must also have been there when they bound her in the first place?

Remember, Pirate Lord is an office, that can be passed from generation to generation... Sao Feng isn't necessarily (I'd say almost certainly not) the man who held that office when Calypso was bound.



> And I can understand Elizabeth being canny enough to go along with the misunderstanding in order to get one over on Feng, but there should have been some kind of initial reaction on her part to communicate this.
> 
> I also found the change in story about the true nature of Davy Jones from DMC to AWE to be jarring and confusing.




I agree with both of these points, though.

-Hyp.


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## jonathan swift (May 27, 2007)

They mentioned in the movie that it was the original nine pirate lords that bound Calypso. It seemed to indicate that had happened a long long time before.


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## Hand of Evil (May 27, 2007)

Give it a solid 8, I enjoyed it.  It had everything I like in a movie, witty lines, action, a good plot, it did not try to be more than it was, flow, bounce, special effects and pirates.  Fights were well done but I do wish there were more ship to ship battles.


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## Remathilis (May 27, 2007)

While we're on the topic of plot holes:



			
				Curse of the Black Pearl said:
			
		

> Pintel:  Once we're quit of the curse, we'll be rich men. And you can buy an eye what actually fits and is made of glass.
> 
> Ragetti: This one does splinter something terrible. [rubs it]
> 
> Pintel: Stop rubbing it.




but now Ragetti has been keeping one the Pieces of Eight safe all this time? If that was his duty, he wouldn't have wanted to replace it.


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## Nyaricus (May 27, 2007)

My opinion of At World's End?

I liked it.

However, out of the three PotC movies, it was very possibly the weakest, but I wasn't a big fan of Dead Man's Chest, and it's been awhile since I watched it (which lead to some confusion over plots, but more on that later) so I'm none too sure.

I thought this movie was trying to do waaay too much in it's three-hour length. I think the whole Calypso element was superfluous to the plotline, and just added confusion to the movie's flow (the whole Chinese Pirate Lords reaction to Elizabeth and then the revelation of the true Calypso a scene or two later just seemed too fast and skipped-over). Not to mention the fact that Calypso wasn't even mentioned in Dead Man's Chest; it was just a set-up for the (yes, amazing) maelstrom scene - which was hardly necessary plot-wise. Calypso was an excuse to get in an amazing battle, and I'm still on the fence on whether it was worth it or not.



			
				ShinHakkaider said:
			
		

> Much of the setup from the 2nd movie is paid off here also I liked the the nods to things from the first film.
> 
> Dead Man's Chest and At World's End are really one film and before you sit for At World's End you should sit for the first two just prior to see where all the pieces fit. Whether you like HOW they fit is up to personal preference but this film was a nice conclusion to Will and Elizabeth's story.



I think this point was my main problem with At World's End - I could barely remember anything from Dead Man's Chest. I completely forgot that Elizabeth betrayed Jack, and thus the movie was harder for me to follow due to so much interaction between DMC and AWE.



			
				Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> Second, it's even more "out there" than the second movie was. The first _Pirates_ movie was a period action movie with a heavy supernatural element. This one? This is a fantasy movie, pure and simple.



Also, this is another problem I had with the movie - while I enjoyed the fantasy elements in the movie (those crabs moving the Black Pearl were awesome!) I wasn't expecting such a big transition. It was very jarring.

cheers,
--N

P.S.


			
				Kunimatyu said:
			
		

> DAVY JONES MINDFLAYED SOMEONE. You KNOW that was a D&D shoutout!



I know, I totally started laughing at that part


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## Hypersmurf (May 27, 2007)

Nyaricus said:
			
		

> I think this point was my main problem with At World's End - I could barely remember anything from Dead Man's Chest.




That's why I watched 1 and 2 on DVD in the days leading up to 3's release 

I tend to do the same with series of novels - if it's been several years since book 3 came out when book 4 is released, I'll reread the first 3 before diving into 4...

Not looking at any author in particular, George.

-Hyp.


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## DonTadow (May 27, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> That's why I watched 1 and 2 on DVD in the days leading up to 3's release
> 
> I tend to do the same with series of novels - if it's been several years since book 3 came out when book 4 is released, I'll reread the first 3 before diving into 4...
> 
> ...



I did too and this helped raise my liking of POTC. Probably why i liked it more than spiderman, which i watched the first two before too, but had little to do with the previous 2 films.


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## Snapdragyn (May 27, 2007)

Too many points scattered throughout to use spoiler tags, so skip this if you haven't seen it.










I actually liked AWE better than DMC... possibly even better than CotBP, though it's really too close to call there. I fully enjoyed the fantasy nature (I kept thinking 'oooh, that'd be cool in a game! and that! and THAT!), something I actually disliked in DMC (it just didn't sit as well with me there for reasons I can only put down as personal taste). I felt that the thematic elements were wonderfully poetic (Will stabbed with the sword made by his own hand, Calypso (goddess of the unpredictable sea) not being there for Jones after 10 years because 'it was her nature', the final tragedy of Will & Elizabeth).

There were pieces that I didn't like. Will's heart being cut out was an absolute plot error. It is revealed earlier in the film that this did not happen w/ Jones because he became the captain of the Dutchman, but was something he did to himself after Calypso's betrayal of him (or his betrayal of her; that point is intentionally unclear, but that it is unconnected to his role as ferryman isn't). Will's heart being cut out, then, is pointless at best, & at worst sets up the possibility of him being corrupted from his duty by a lack of emotion (as they've alluded to the mythical 'emotional' role of the heart before). Also, although I loved the poetic beauty of the tragic ending, I also hated it for being a tragedy -- as someone else mentioned, Will & Elizabeth's 'happily ever after' has been central to the films since the beginning, & now that is destroyed (although the Wikipedia spoiler someone linked is very interesting in that regard, & if that is actually what was intended then I can think of no other editting room cut in film history which has so drastically altered the emotional impact of a film).


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## Donovan Morningfire (May 27, 2007)

Finally got around to seeing this one.  Have to give it an 8 out of 10.  A fun movie certainly, but not sure if DMC or AWE was the weaker of the two films.

The whole Calypso angle wasn't really needed, especially just to set-up the maelstrom bit.

I was kinda hoping it would have been Jack that did the on-ship wedding of Will and Elizabeth, but the way Barbossa did it worked.

Also kinda bummed about Will and Elizabeth's tragic romantic ending, although that Wikipedia spoiler is rather interesting.  I do agree that their story has ended.  Although I have to wonder regarding the whole "Flying Dutchman needs a captain" was meant to draw upon classical myths and legends of a ferryman for the dead, and that Davy Jones was just that time period's version of the ferryman.  Could have ditched the Calypso and Pirate Lords angles to go into a bit more detail.  Maybe it's possible that the "heart carved out" was more due to Davy becoming cursed?


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## John Crichton (May 27, 2007)

Snapdragyn said:
			
		

> There were pieces that I didn't like. Will's heart being cut out was an absolute plot error. It is revealed earlier in the film that this did not happen w/ Jones because he became the captain of the Dutchman, but was something he did to himself after Calypso's betrayal of him (or his betrayal of her; that point is intentionally unclear, but that it is unconnected to his role as ferryman isn't). Will's heart being cut out, then, is pointless at best, & at worst sets up the possibility of him being corrupted from his duty by a lack of emotion (as they've alluded to the mythical 'emotional' role of the heart before).



It was well established that the captain of the FD would have to have his heart put in the Dead Man's Chest to be immortal.  That was the point of the heart - it's what establishes the immortality.  I took it plainly to be a the price that was paid for that immortality.  I could easily see the fickle Calypso demanding this of Davy.


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## Hypersmurf (May 27, 2007)

Snapdragyn said:
			
		

> Will's heart being cut out was an absolute plot error. It is revealed earlier in the film that this did not happen w/ Jones because he became the captain of the Dutchman, but was something he did to himself after Calypso's betrayal of him (or his betrayal of her; that point is intentionally unclear, but that it is unconnected to his role as ferryman isn't).




Was this ever revealed by anyone other than Tia Dalma?

-Hyp.


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## Relique du Madde (May 27, 2007)

Remathilis said:
			
		

> While we're on the topic of plot holes:
> 
> 
> 
> but now Ragetti has been keeping one the Pieces of Eight safe all this time? If that was his duty, he wouldn't have wanted to replace it.





Not really a plot hole.  During the meeting they said that the pieces of 9 were any trinket owned by the pirate lords at the time of the meeting.  It's assumed that this item has to hold some significance (which is why a lock of jacks hair with a strand of beads was used).

Before the meeting Barbosa picked up Ragetti's eye and "marked it"  by licking and biting it.  By doing this, you could say that Barbosa was telling Ragetti that his fate is in his (Barbosa) hands and so long as he keeps the eye safe nothing will happen to him.


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## Hypersmurf (May 28, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Not really a plot hole.  During the meeting they said that the pieces of 9 were any trinket owned by the pirate lords at the time of the meeting.  It's assumed that this item has to hold some significance (which is why a lock of jacks hair with a strand of beads was used).
> 
> Before the meeting Barbosa picked up Ragetti's eye and "marked it"  by licking and biting it.  By doing this, you could say that Barbosa was telling Ragetti that his fate is in his (Barbosa) hands and so long as he keeps the eye safe nothing will happen to him.




The Pieces of Eight were _originally_ trinkets owned by the Lords at the _first_ Court.  Once they were used to bind Calypso, those _specific_ trinkets were now Pieces of Eight.

Ragetti's eye has been a Piece of Eight since the first Court.  The crystal that Sao Feng gave to Elizabeth has been a Piece of Eight since the first Court - it's the trinket the original Lord of the South China Sea had in his pocket at the binding ceremony.

Jack's Piece of Eight wasn't a lock of hair plus a strand of beads; it was a small metal disk that was threaded onto the strand of beads in his hair.  Barbossa cut off the whole lock of hair, but he was only after the metal disk attached to it, because that disk has been a Piece of Eight since the first Court.

Those nine bits of junk have been carefully guarded and passed from Lord to successor since the first Court.  Barbossa couldn't show up at the Court and decide "For today's ceremony, I'm going to say this feather from my hat is a Piece of Eight".  He needed the trinket that the Lord of the Caspian Sea used in the binding ceremony - the wooden eye.

-Hyp.


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## Taelorn76 (May 28, 2007)

The whole cut out his heart thing got me as well.

They stated in AWE that Jones only cut out his heart after the first 10 years and Calypso's betrayal. There was no reason for them to have to cut Will's heart.


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## Saba Taru (May 28, 2007)

I have to give this one a 9.5 out of 10, and here's why:

It didn't hit me until 



Spoiler



they sailed through the ice on their way to the underworld to retrieve Jack from the Locker


, but the entire series was retelling the "Rhime of the Ancyent Marinere."  Once that dawned on me, so much of the CotBP and DMC, coupled with AWE, made perfect sense.  I went back and watched the first two to be sure I wasn't imagining it, but it really, really does fit.

With that said, AWE was easily my favorite of the three.

Saba


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## Steel_Wind (May 28, 2007)

I'm still undecided about it. I guess I liked it... but I didn't like it as much as DMC and certainly not as much as CoBP.

What attracted me to the original Pirates of the Caribbean was that it was a period piece with fantastical elements.

_"Well you'd better start believin' in ghost stories m'dear, because you're in one!"_

That's what made it cool for me.

The second one... again...the fantastic took place somewhere "out there on the sea" and it didn't feel very connected to the world. More over the top, but my disbelief was still suspended.

This one? Pure Fantasy. Nine Pirate Lords? The English Marching their own people by the hundreds to the gallows in some mockery of the Holocaust for some imagined wrongs? (and they all stand meekly and take it?) Sailing off the edge of the world? A Disney film that hangs a kid in the opening scene?

It was too much. My disbelief couldn't recover from what I was seeing. Which is okay if it's a pure fantasy film  - but this wasn't what this was supposed to be. That's not the idea of the original genre. It was supposed to be taking place on Earth in the first film - and this one  - took place somewhere else entirely.

I guess from my point of view, the more over the top the fantastical became, the less I was able to buy into the movie.

If they do make a fourth film focusing on Jack and Barbosa and the search for the Fountain of Youth - as long as its not as far over the top - I think I would prefer that return to the less fantastic.


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## Steel_Wind (May 28, 2007)

Saba Taru said:
			
		

> I have to give this one a 9.5 out of 10, and here's why:
> 
> It didn't hit me until
> 
> ...




There are elements of Coleridge in there, sure, sailors in rime, undead sailors, no water to drink, guilt, maelstrom, things in the water...

But it was just a nod here and there to the tale. Somehow, I don't think Coleridge would feel flattered. (though talking to his earings? He might identify with that part


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## RichGreen (May 28, 2007)

I enjoyed it.

Does anyone know why there were mushrooms growing out of the heads of the men bathing in Sao Feng's place? Weird.


Richard


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## Hypersmurf (May 28, 2007)

RichGreen said:
			
		

> I enjoyed it.
> 
> Does anyone know why there were mushrooms growing out of the heads of the men bathing in Sao Feng's place? Weird.




In the Making Of documentary, they said they created a unique look for the 'spa', that highlighted a lack of hygiene... and so there were mushrooms growing out of some of the pools, and even mushrooms growing out of some of the bathers!

... still struck me as weird 

-Hyp.


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## Pseudonym (May 28, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> In the Making Of documentary, they said they created a unique look for the 'spa', that highlighted a lack of hygiene... and so there were mushrooms growing out of some of the pools, and even mushrooms growing out of some of the bathers!




I saw that and thought they were some sort of Asian version of Davy Jones's crew; with the explanation to follow later.  The action soon picked up and that brief image was forgotten


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## Merkuri (May 28, 2007)

Curse of the Black Pearl said:
			
		

> Pintel: Once we're quit of the curse, we'll be rich men. And you can buy an eye what actually fits and is made of glass.
> 
> Ragetti: This one does splinter something terrible. [rubs it]
> 
> Pintel: Stop rubbing it.





			
				Remathilis said:
			
		

> but now Ragetti has been keeping one the Pieces of Eight safe all this time? If that was his duty, he wouldn't have wanted to replace it.




One could argue that Pintel was actually the one who suggested getting a new eye, and Ragetti never actually agreed with him.  It's possible he really really wants a new eye, but knows he can't have one.

But yeah, I think they just thought it would be funny if it was the eye.  The same way they thought it would be funny if they brought back that _frickin' dog with the frickin' keys!  What the heck was that!_

Oh, did anybody notice the sounds they played in that black part after the Singapore ship fell off the edge of the world?  Those were from the Pirates of the Carribbean ride in Orlando that originally "inspired" the movies.  I remembered lots of those sounds back from when my family went to Disney World when I was 10-ish.  I thought it was a nice touch.


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## Truth Seeker (May 28, 2007)

Given it a 9.0 out of 10, for the sheer madness that came, went, and hopped around.  

I was not bored at all.


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## Rackhir (May 28, 2007)

One question 



Spoiler



the son of Jack and Elizabeth, looked like the same kid who got executed at the begining.



Overall, while any individual moment was okay, as a whole there was nothing there.


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## Hypersmurf (May 28, 2007)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> But yeah, I think they just thought it would be funny if it was the eye.  The same way they thought it would be funny if they brought back that _frickin' dog with the frickin' keys!  What the heck was that!_




Sea turtles, mate.

-Hyp.


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## Hijinks (May 29, 2007)

My husband and I weren't sure about the end.  Did Elizabeth go to the Locker, is that where the beach is where she waits for him?  I thought so, it looked like the same beach.  But husband doesn't think so.  After Will sailed away on the FD, the pirates gave her a dinghy and said "bye" like they knew exactly where she was going.  So I assumed she was going back to the Locker, but he doesn't buy it.  He thinks she must have set up a rendesvouz on some other beach, but then how would she know where to go when she leaves immediately following the FD?

Thoughts?


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## Merkuri (May 29, 2007)

I don't know how they would've known where to meet (perhaps it was simply the nearest island), but she certainly didn't go back to the locker.  Do you remember how hard it was for them to get there in the first place?  I doubt she could survive the south pole (or wherever it was they went that was cold) in a dinghy.


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## Hypersmurf (May 29, 2007)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> I doubt she could survive the south pole (or wherever it was they went that was cold) in a dinghy.




I'd love to see you sail to the South Pole - in a dinghy _or_ a ship 

-Hyp.


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## Steel_Wind (May 29, 2007)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> My husband and I weren't sure about the end.  Did Elizabeth go to the Locker, is that where the beach is where she waits for him?  I thought so, it looked like the same beach.  But husband doesn't think so.  After Will sailed away on the FD, the pirates gave her a dinghy and said "bye" like they knew exactly where she was going.  So I assumed she was going back to the Locker, but he doesn't buy it.  He thinks she must have set up a rendesvouz on some other beach, but then how would she know where to go when she leaves immediately following the FD?
> 
> Thoughts?




They simply put ashore on nearby terra firma for some privacy to consummate their marriage.  We know this, as when Turner leave on the Dutchman, he winks out to between the worlds as the sunsets with a green flash.

He goes off to do what it is that Davey Jones ought to have been doing - guiding souls to the after life who died at sea.

Later, after the credits, Turner returns ten years later to shore to see Elizabeth and his son, WilliamIII.


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## satori01 (May 29, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> The whole cut out his heart thing got me as well.
> 
> They stated in AWE that Jones only cut out his heart after the first 10 years and Calypso's betrayal. There was no reason for them to have to cut Will's heart.




No reason other than magic, and to set up a way to kill Will, and bring him back again, and leave the story with a somewhat tragic air.
Davey Jones' act of defiance in cutting out his heart changed the nature of the office he was supposed to perform.... it is magic, and having a magic spell or effect be altered through a great determined action born of strong emotion is pretty time honored aspect of magical stories in general.


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## Taelorn76 (May 29, 2007)

satori01 said:
			
		

> No reason other than magic, and to set up a way to kill Will, and bring him back again, and leave the story with a somewhat tragic air.
> Davey Jones' act of defiance in cutting out his heart changed the nature of the office he was supposed to perform.... it is magic, and having a magic spell or effect be altered through a great determined action born of strong emotion is pretty time honored aspect of magical stories in general.




Yeah, but I still don't think Will needed to have his heart cut out.


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## death tribble (May 29, 2007)

I saw it and was disappointed.
Too many people in it.
Bill Nighy as Davy Jones, Geoffrey Rush as Barbossa and Keith Richards as Teague were good. But Johnny was having an off day.

Dead Man's Chest was better in my opinion.


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## jonathan swift (May 29, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Yeah, but I still don't think Will needed to have his heart cut out.





Why not? They mentioned it several times in the movie.


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## Taelorn76 (May 29, 2007)

jonathan swift said:
			
		

> Why not? They mentioned it several times in the movie.




Because Jones cut out his heart so as not to feel the pain of Calypso's betrayal. IIRC cutting out his heart had nothing to do with the job of ferrying the dead to the locker


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## sniffles (May 29, 2007)

I saw it opening day. I enjoyed certain parts of it very much, especially the mythic aspects of going to rescue Captain Jack and the story of Calypso. But it was too long and confusing. I wish I'd rewatched #2 before I saw #3. I had a hard time remembering what was going on. 

The romance between Will Turner and Elizabeth had no chemistry this time. I just didn't feel it. 

I also thought they had too many characters. Chow Yun Fat was mostly wasted and Geoffrey Rush stole the show from Johnny Depp. I wanted to see more of Jack Sparrow.


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## Mouseferatu (May 29, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Because Jones cut out his heart so as not to feel the pain of Calypso's betrayal. IIRC cutting out his heart had nothing to do with the job of ferrying the dead to the locker




The only person to make that claim was Tia Dalma. So it's really a question of whether or not one chooses to believe that she was telling the truth.

Me, I'd rather that she had been, and that the heart bit was unrelated to captaining the _Flying Dutchman_. But that certainly doesn't appear to be the interpretation the movie offered.


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## SecondTime (May 29, 2007)

I hated it. The pacing was off and most of the characters were reduced to silly exposition punctuated by samey action sequences and predictable one liners which relied on the audience knowing stuff from the first movie to find it in anyway funny. And it was like this throughout the movie. No sense of a buildup and no sense of a climax having taken place. I was quite frankly bored.

It was basically a world building nerdfest with a convoluted, but dumb and souless plot slapped on.


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## The Grumpy Celt (May 29, 2007)

I liked parts and hated parts.

Tia Dalma was dead sexy. The great battle was wonderful. Jack and Hector together was fun, as was Siao Fang.

I loathed the Will and Beth ending. We are supposed to care about them and they are horribly punished while the pirates get everything they want. Nuts to that. Who ever thought up that ending needs to be kicked in the balls.

I was confused by the villians, the song, killing the kraken, the cutting out of the heart, the murder of Governor Swann and the Land of the Dead.

Edit: In 20+ years Gore will make a prequil trilogy that will piss off most of the original fans.


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## Arnwyn (May 30, 2007)

Huh. Just saw it last night and thought it was... mediocre. I suppose it was okay, but it was certainly the worst of the three (by a long shot), and had an even more convoluted and disjointed plot than DMC, with even worse pacing problems, if you can imagine. A tight story this was _not_. It was a better than average movie for me, though, so a 6/10 for the movie +1 for having pirates, so a weak 7/10 for me. In any case, I am _very_ glad I watched both previous movies the night before, otherwise I'd have been exceptionally disappointed with the third.

The whole Davey Jones Locker/Land of the Dead sequence was so boring it stunk to high heaven, and I didn't get much out of the whole 'multiple Jacks' sequences. And while it was neat to see references to the previous movies, they sometimes didn't make a lot of sense (e.g. whats-his-face's eye turns out to actually be important, though in the previous movies he and his buddy allude to replacing it... why? Because the writers were just making  up as they went along [evidence? Listen to their commentary on the DMC DVD!]). And the dead Kraken (just for the sake of removing it from the third movie) was a complete cop-out (though at least they made the effort to tell us what happened to it, so I give them an "E" for effort...). The Keith Richards cameo just plain sucked for me personally, as I hate those kinds of stupid Hollywood in-jokes (though the guy isn't a half-bad actor!).

Great, however, were the recurring characters (even the 2 goof soldiers from the first movie) and the action sequences. I loved seeing Norrington again (he was my favorite from DMC) and I suspected he would 'redeem' himself - glad to see I was right.

But overall, though, I found myself bored throughout a significant portion of the movie.


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## satori01 (May 31, 2007)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> The only person to make that claim was Tia Dalma. So it's really a question of whether or not one chooses to believe that she was telling the truth.
> 
> Me, I'd rather that she had been, and that the heart bit was unrelated to captaining the _Flying Dutchman_. But that certainly doesn't appear to be the interpretation the movie offered.




In any case it does seem that the Captain of the Dutchman has to have something valuable left in the real world.  Davey originally  had Calypso, and then he had his heart.  Wil has his heart both literally and figuratively on earth.

Now the question becomes did Davey cut out his heart to become Captain of the Dutchman.  I do not think so.  The Captain of the Dutchman is a mantle one takes one, similar in effect to say the role of Death in Piers Anthony's Personification series, but however I do not think that was what was intended by Calypso.  Davey was immortal, and made himself vulnerable by cutting out his heart.

That also set up the mechanism by which the next Captain would be chosen.  That is how I am choosing to interpret it.  Overall does it really make that much of a difference?  One of the other characters even asked Calypso did Davey cut out his heart before or after securing her in Human Form....the movie implies but does not directly say.


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## Merkuri (May 31, 2007)

satori01 said:
			
		

> Davey was immortal, and made himself vulnerable by cutting out his heart. That also set up the mechanism by which the next Captain would be chosen.




Hmm, that's an interesting way to look at it.  Before Davey cut out his heart he was truly immortal, and thus needed no method of replacement.  When the heart was put in the chest he created a method by which he could die, and also created the method of his replacement.

Though if they explained this in the movie it would make more sense.


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## WayneLigon (May 31, 2007)

Went to see it last night. Loved it; best of the three in most ways.
I hope people stayed for the little snippet at the end of the credits.


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## Quasqueton (May 31, 2007)

I loved the first two PotC movies. I fully expected to love this one.

But after sitting through the complete boredom of the first hour, I was completely turned off. I was so turned off by that hour that I was finding a bunch of things to dislike. Not willing to waste the next two hours, I left the theater and got my money back.

I'm not only disappointed in the movie, but I'm disappointed at my disappointment (if that makes sense).

Quasqueton


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## Someone (May 31, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Tia Dalma was dead sexy.




Do you think? IMO the rotten mouth prop was way overdone - it's the first time I can't get my eyes off a woman's face to stare at her rack, instead of the other way around.


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## WayneLigon (May 31, 2007)

Quasqueton said:
			
		

> But after sitting through the complete boredom of the first hour, I was completely turned off.




You must have gone to see a totally different movie than I did.


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## GoodKingJayIII (May 31, 2007)

Someone said:
			
		

> Do you think? IMO the rotten mouth prop was way overdone - it's the first time I can't get my eyes off a woman's face to stare at her rack, instead of the other way around.




Yeah, she looked good.  I mean, they kind uglified her for the movie, but I kept imagining what she looked like in Miami Vice.


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## Arnwyn (May 31, 2007)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> You must have gone to see a totally different movie than I did.



What a strange little comment.


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## The Grumpy Celt (May 31, 2007)

I still say Will and Elizebeth got a crappy deal and the pirates made off like... ah... bandits. If I were Will and I had a wife like Elizebeth and later a kid waiting for me, I would be hunting for any way to pass the job off to someone else so I could go join my family (without dying).

I think the ending also too closely echoed the begining of the first.

Can someone explain why Beckett wanted people to sing the pirate song? And who did he answer to anyway? He seemed to violate a lot of the rules of being an evil overlord.



			
				Someone said:
			
		

> Do you think?




Yeah. In a scary, "better do it right or you'll piss her off" kind of way.


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## Hypersmurf (May 31, 2007)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Can someone explain why Beckett wanted people to sing the pirate song?




He _wanted_ the Brethren Court convened, so that he could get all the Pirate Eggs in one basket.  Hunting pirates one by one was inefficient - if he could gather them all in one place, he could swoop in with an armada and sort them all out at once.



> And who did he answer to anyway?




The board of the EI Co, I presume.

-Hyp.


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## Krug (Jun 1, 2007)

Kinda messy muddle, with too many characters/plots to be resolved. Think Johnny Depp's skit was getting a bit tired, though I really like Geoffrey Rush. ("What are YARRR doin'?") He shows folks who's the REAL pirate! 

It was all right. Not really on my highly reccomended list.


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## HeavenShallBurn (Jun 1, 2007)

Guess I'm alone, then again I usually am.

I thought that it was the best of the three movies.  First was almost as good, second drug on a bit at times.  This one was overflowing with cool stuff, had a plot I didn't have mapped out within the first fifteen minutes, and tied together all the earlier bits of supernatural by showcasing the overarching fantasy of the setting as opposed to its historical elements.  That and it also reminded me of the last campaign my brother DM'ed when I was in middle school in the 80s.


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## GoodKingJayIII (Jun 1, 2007)

HeavenShallBurn said:
			
		

> Guess I'm alone, then again I usually am.




Not the best, but still very enjoyable.  Not a perfect movie, but I don't think it's anywhere near as bad as some are claiming it to be.  The Jack stuff dragged on... if they had cut a lot of that, maybe we could've kept that important plot element about Tia Dalma and Davy Jones.  But I thought, mostly, the pacing was great, the action fun, and the bobbing and weaving of the story kept me interested.

Oh, and Geoffrey Rush stole the show.


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## Banshee16 (Jun 4, 2007)

Can someone please answer the question....

Is Will basically screwed for eternity?  Everyone, including my wife and friends, left as soon as the credits started rolling, but I've heard there was another scene at the end, showing Will coming to shore in Port Royal.  I've read that there was a piece of dialog that I missed, that said that the curse could be broken, and the captain of the flying dutchman released, if the woman he loved was there waiting for him after 10-years....consequently, there was a scene after the credits where he's reunited with Elizabeth?

Or is that incorrect?  Will was actually one of my favourite characters, and thinking about how unhappy his ending appeared to be kind of ruined the ending for me.

Banshee


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## Banshee16 (Jun 4, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Huh.  I didn't get that at all; I got that the Dutchman was a duty, not a curse; the 'curse' (all that fishiness etc) only came on if the captain eschewed that duty.
> 
> The faithfulness of the lover had nothing to do with the curse directly; it was merely that Calypso's unfaithfulness led to Jones skipping out on his job.  It was Jones' rebellion that led to the curse; Calypso was merely a contributing factor.
> 
> -Hyp.




I've heard the thing about being released from the duty if one's lover remains faithful elsewhere.  People are discussing that at Rotten Tomatoes.  And it makes a certain amount of sense.

Calypso was Davey Jones' lover....but being goddess of the sea, she was capricious and fickle.  Consequently, she wasn't worthy of his trust, and when he came back for her after 10-years, she wasn't there....he felt betrayed, and abandoned his duty, instead of being released, and consequently became a monster.  Their story is a tragedy.

Will and Elizabeth truly loved one another, and were both honourable, keeping to their oaths.  He did his duty for 10 years, and she remained faithful.  Consequently, Will was eventually released from the curse.

If this is what the writers intended, then it's an interesting comparison, and I think makes the Will/Elizabeth ending a lot more palatable.  Though Jack Sparrow was very amusing, at his heart, he was scum.....likeable scum, but scum nonetheless.

Someone over at Rotten  Tomatoes found an exerpt of the original Flying Dutchman story, which seems to give further credence to the idea that Will was released after 10 years, *because* Elizabeth stayed faithful..

"The Flying Dutchman Opera from 1843 indicates: "swore he would sail for all eternity if necessary to reach his destination. Be as careful in what you swear as you should be in what you wish for: in a Faustian turn, Satan condemns the Dutchman to sail the seas forever, with his only hope for redemption the unconditional love of a woman. The Dutchman is allowed to go ashore once every seven years to seek the woman whose love will save him from his tortured purgatory.""

Banshee


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 4, 2007)

So if Will is released after 10 years, and 'The Dutchman must have a captain!', does that mean someone needs to stab Will's heart and take over for the next shift?

-Hyp.


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## Taelorn76 (Jun 4, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> So if Will is released after 10 years, and 'The Dutchman must have a captain!', does that mean someone needs to stab Will's heart and take over for the next shift?
> 
> -Hyp.




But then you Kill Will. That's not a good ending either.


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## Merkuri (Jun 4, 2007)

Perhaps the curse that's ended by a faithful lover is the part where he can't land except for once every 10 years.  He's still the captain of the Flying Dutchman and still has to ferry the dead, but now he can go home every night to his wife and kid.

That's how I'm choosing to interpret it.


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## Banshee16 (Jun 4, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> So if Will is released after 10 years, and 'The Dutchman must have a captain!', does that mean someone needs to stab Will's heart and take over for the next shift?
> 
> -Hyp.




I've seen posts suggesting that Calypso would find someone else to designate Captain.  And apparently in that scene where Will comes back, there's a green flash on the horizon, indicating that a soul has returned from the dead.  Davey Jones wasn't dead when he became Captain, whereas Will was.....he'd been slain by that Davey Jones.  So the green flash could be indicative that Will returned to the living when he left his post as captain of the ship.  Who knows?  Maybe Will Turner Sr. took over the duties, to let his son go home to his wife?

Banshee


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## Elemental (Jun 4, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> One of my favourite lines - "Do you think he plans it all out in advance, or just makes it up as he goes along?"
> 
> -Hyp.




That was a great bit. The funniest bit without any lines was the physical comedy when Elizabeth gives up the last of her concealed weapons in Singapore.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 4, 2007)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> Davey Jones wasn't dead when he became Captain, whereas Will was.....he'd been slain by that Davey Jones.




Well, he'd been stabbed.  I didn't get that he was dead - they got him to stab the heart just in time.

To me, the green flash was souls returning from the _land_ of the dead - that is, the Dutchman coming back from World's End - but not necessarily someone who was dead returning to life.

-Hyp.


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## Banshee16 (Jun 4, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Well, he'd been stabbed.  I didn't get that he was dead - they got him to stab the heart just in time.
> 
> To me, the green flash was souls returning from the _land_ of the dead - that is, the Dutchman coming back from World's End - but not necessarily someone who was dead returning to life.
> 
> -Hyp.




They made a point about the green flash when Jack returned, and that flash was related to souls returning from the land of the dead.

I figured that Will was dying or dead, and they put the dagger in his hand, and forced him to stab the heart, but that he was beyond the capacity of being able to do that himself.

Banshee


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 4, 2007)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> I figured that Will was dying or dead, and they put the dagger in his hand, and forced him to stab the heart, but that he was beyond the capacity of being able to do that himself.




Oh, he was definitely beyond doing it himself, but I'd still figure he can't have been dead... once he's actually dead, he'd be as much a tool as the knife, and whoever was manipulating his corpse would be the true instrument of Davy Jones' death.  

-Hyp.


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## Mistwell (Jun 5, 2007)

Krug said:
			
		

> Kinda messy muddle, with too many characters/plots to be resolved. Think Johnny Depp's skit was getting a bit tired, though I really like Geoffrey Rush. ("What are YARRR doin'?") He shows folks who's the REAL pirate!
> 
> It was all right. Not really on my highly reccomended list.




I agree.

Let's kill the Kraken! Nevermind the big deal we made last movie about how it was the key to all power.  And let's get all the Captains together to fight the East India Company.  Nevermind that they don't.  And let's release Calypso to change everything.  Nevermind that it really doesn't do anything other than make an interesting special effect to sale around.  And let's start the movie off all the peasants dying and a song.  Never mind that the peasants continue to die, the song is almost entirely dropped except for a couple of short mentions later, and nothing is done to stop the people doing the killing (who sale off to presumably continue doing it).  What a friggen mess!


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 5, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Nevermind that it really doesn't do anything other than make an interesting special effect to sale around.




Maelstrom Sale!  50% Off!  Everything Must Go!

-Hyp.


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## Jakar (Jun 5, 2007)

Bad movie for doing that on the carpet (smacks it with a rolled up newspaper)

What a crap movie.  It looked really good, but boy did the story really suck or what.


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## Banshee16 (Jun 5, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> I agree.
> 
> Let's kill the Kraken! Nevermind the big deal we made last movie about how it was the key to all power.  And let's get all the Captains together to fight the East India Company.  Nevermind that they don't.  And let's release Calypso to change everything.  Nevermind that it really doesn't do anything other than make an interesting special effect to sale around.  And let's start the movie off all the peasants dying and a song.  Never mind that the peasants continue to die, the song is almost entirely dropped except for a couple of short mentions later, and nothing is done to stop the people doing the killing (who sale off to presumably continue doing it).  What a friggen mess!




I think the whole concept they were going with was that the more extreme actions of EITC were basically because of the villain.  They were him running rampant with his power, rather than actual EITC policy.  When he died, cooler heads prevailed.  That's kind of how I interpreted it.

Banshee


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## Mistwell (Jun 5, 2007)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> I think the whole concept they were going with was that the more extreme actions of EITC were basically because of the villain.  They were him running rampant with his power, rather than actual EITC policy.  When he died, cooler heads prevailed.  That's kind of how I interpreted it.
> 
> Banshee




Really? How much you want to bet next movie starts with the implication that most pirates are dead and gone?


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## Banshee16 (Jun 6, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Really? How much you want to bet next movie starts with the implication that most pirates are dead and gone?




That could be.  But it sure didn't seem like that, given how openly Jack was walking around Port Royal at the end of the movie...

He's a known pirate, and you'd think that if pirates were still being obliterated, he wouldn't be able to do so...

I wonder if they will do a sequel?  The movie is apparently not doing as well as the first two.  It got a good start, but the second week's take was significantly less, and they don't think it's on track to make what either of the previous two did.

http://www.boxofficemojo.com/news/?id=2325&p=.htm

Banshee


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## Aeric (Jun 6, 2007)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> That could be.  But it sure didn't seem like that, given how openly Jack was walking around Port Royal at the end of the movie...




Actually, I think that was Tortuga.  That's where Scarlett and her blonde friend lived, and the dock looked like the one that Jack met Elizabeth in disguise in DMC.


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 6, 2007)

Aeric said:
			
		

> Actually, I think that was Tortuga.




"Tortuga?"
"Tortuga."

-Hyp.


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## Merkuri (Jun 6, 2007)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> I wonder if they will do a sequel?




Three seems to be the magic number of movies lately.  I think Pirates was designed to be a trilogy.  If they do make another movie, it'll probably only have a few characters in common with these three movies.  As someone else said earlier, Will and Elizabeth's story is over.  This story arc is done.  They may do something else in the same setting, but it won't be a true sequel.


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## Mistwell (Jun 6, 2007)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> Three seems to be the magic number of movies lately.  I think Pirates was designed to be a trilogy.  If they do make another movie, it'll probably only have a few characters in common with these three movies.  As someone else said earlier, Will and Elizabeth's story is over.  This story arc is done.  They may do something else in the same setting, but it won't be a true sequel.





Uhhh....the end of the movie, after the credits, implied their story is not over.


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## Particle_Man (Jun 6, 2007)

Pirates of the Caribbean 4: The Fountain of Youth.  Bet on it.

Oh, and here is my reconstruction of the lyrics to "Hoist the Colours" from the beginnings of movies 3 and 1.

The king and his men
stole the queen from her bed
and bound her in her bones.
The seas be ours
and by the powers
where we will, we'll roam.

Yo ho, all together
hoist the colours high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars
never shall we die.

Some have died
and some are alive
and others sail on the sea
– with the keys to the cage…
and the Devil to pay
we lay to Fiddler’s Green!

Yo ho, all together
hoist the colours high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars
never shall we die.

The bell has been raised
from its watery grave.
Hear its sepulchral tone
A call to all,
pay head the squall
and turn your sail to home!

Yo ho, all together
hoist the colours high.
Heave ho, thieves and beggars
never say we die.

Now that I have done that, could someone please tell me what the hell Giant Calypso was saying?  I couldn't understand any of it.

Oh, and I loved the movie.  I see all three movies as one big movie so won't judge which piece is better than other pieces.


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## Merkuri (Jun 6, 2007)

Mistwell said:
			
		

> Uhhh....the end of the movie, after the credits, implied their story is not over.




It's 10 years later and they have a child.  In most movies that means their story is over.  Honestly, if they hadn't shown that bit at the end I'd be more inclined to think we'd see them later on.

Most TV shows and movies end shortly after the two main characters finally get together.  Getting married and having a kid further seals the deal.


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## Mistwell (Jun 6, 2007)

Merkuri said:
			
		

> It's 10 years later and they have a child.  In most movies that means their story is over.  Honestly, if they hadn't shown that bit at the end I'd be more inclined to think we'd see them later on.
> 
> Most TV shows and movies end shortly after the two main characters finally get together.  Getting married and having a kid further seals the deal.




It sure seemed like they were seeing "Pirate Jr., coming to a theatre near you".

In fact...check this out:

http://www.joblo.com/pirates-4-talk

Says Summer 2009.

and...

http://www.cinematical.com/2006/10/08/disney-insider-orlando-bloom-wont-survive-pirates-4/

Script already written, and they knew Orlando Bloom would not be in Pirates 4, but Depp would be.


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## Klaus (Jun 7, 2007)

Loved the movie. Not a single complain. Everything fell nicely into place, or close enough as to make no matter.

Bring on the Fountain of Youth, mate!


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## Cthulhudrew (Jun 9, 2007)

Finally saw this- mostly enjoyed it, though I felt it took too long to get into the movie. The opening scenes (particularly the yawn fest that was the Singapore skirmish) made it really drag.

I just have one question, really- when did Barbossa become a Pirate Lord? Presumably, he was one all along (having given Ragetti his "piece of eight"), but if he was a Pirate Lord, whatever was he doing serving as Jack's first mate back at the dawn of the first film? Shouldn't he have had his own ship and crew?

My guess would be simply that either he or Jack somehow got a hold of one of the pieces of eight secretly (most likely Barbossa, as the other Lords seemed to know Jack pretty well and accept him among their number, although- come to think of it- they seemed to have done the same with Barbossa).

Also, given that there was some consternation over the fact that Jack's untimely demise had left no heir to his title, shouldn't there have been the same at Barbossa's death? (Yet more evidence, IMO, to believe that Barbossa had snagged the eye without the rest of the pirates knowledge).


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## Klaus (Jun 9, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Finally saw this- mostly enjoyed it, though I felt it took too long to get into the movie. The opening scenes (particularly the yawn fest that was the Singapore skirmish) made it really drag.
> 
> I just have one question, really- when did Barbossa become a Pirate Lord? Presumably, he was one all along (having given Ragetti his "piece of eight"), but if he was a Pirate Lord, whatever was he doing serving as Jack's first mate back at the dawn of the first film? Shouldn't he have had his own ship and crew?
> 
> ...



 Wikipedia says Barbossa is the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea. Since that body of water is self-contained, he spends his time elsewhere (namely, the Caribbean Sea).

They only went after Jack because the 9 pieces were needed to free Calypso, and his piece went to Davey Jones' Locker with him. Barbossa's piece remained with Ragetti (would that make Ragetti a Pirate Lord in Barbossa's absence?).


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## David Howery (Jun 9, 2007)

finally saw this a couple of days ago.  Nothing wrong with the sets or the acting or the special affects... but the script and the editing weren't so great.  Too many scenes dragged on (especially Depp and his fantasies)... and two of the big buildups fell flat (releasing Calypso and the armada vs. the pirate fleet)....


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## Cthulhudrew (Jun 9, 2007)

Klaus said:
			
		

> Wikipedia says Barbossa is the Pirate Lord of the Caspian Sea. Since that body of water is self-contained, he spends his time elsewhere (namely, the Caribbean Sea).




Interesting. Wonder how he became lord of the Caspian?

In any event, it doesn't really explain what he was doing acting as Jack's first mate rather than commanding a ship of his own.


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## Squire James (Jun 10, 2007)

My first thought on that was that Jack Sparrow's daddy (that guy everyone was afraid of)told him to, and B was down on his luck enough that he had to accept.  Luck changed, and B seized the opportunity.


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## Klaus (Jun 10, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Interesting. Wonder how he became lord of the Caspian?
> 
> In any event, it doesn't really explain what he was doing acting as Jack's first mate rather than commanding a ship of his own.



 My guess? Barbossa was biding his time to lead a mutiny and have the Pearl, the finest ship in the world, for himself.

Which, you know, he did. That dastardly rascal!


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 10, 2007)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> I just have one question, really- when did Barbossa become a Pirate Lord? Presumably, he was one all along (having given Ragetti his "piece of eight"), but if he was a Pirate Lord, whatever was he doing serving as Jack's first mate back at the dawn of the first film? Shouldn't he have had his own ship and crew?




Remember, there were ten years between the mutiny and Barbossa's death.  I'm assuming he was designated the Caspian Lord's heir some time in that period, and succeeded to the title when the prior Lord died.  (Whoever he was.)

It seems unlikely that he would have been Caspian Lord _before_ the mutiny.

-Hyp.


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## Cthulhudrew (Jun 11, 2007)

Hypersmurf said:
			
		

> Remember, there were ten years between the mutiny and Barbossa's death.  I'm assuming he was designated the Caspian Lord's heir some time in that period, and succeeded to the title when the prior Lord died.  (Whoever he was.)




Good point. I'll go with this one.


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## Abraxas (Jun 11, 2007)

This movie was very disappointing - I give it a 3. Overall, the only part I found entertaining was the action sequence at the end.

I thought the interaction between Will & Elizabeth stunk. Elizabeth suddenly becoming a swashbuckling expert was annoying. The multiple Jack's were distracting.

Unlike the other two, there was nothing really funny in this movie (while watching the other two the audience in the theatres I was in actually laughed out loud - it was dead silent this time - except for alot of whispered questions as people were trying to figure out what was going on)

In a number of spots I had difficulty understanding the dialogue, which was particularly bothersome - although I'm not sure if that was due to the film itself or the sound system of the theatre.

Oh, and I'm tired of having to sit through boring credits to see some end bit - if that was never done again I'd be happy, its not like waiting 10 minutes makes the scene any better.


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## Klaus (Jun 11, 2007)

Abraxas said:
			
		

> This movie was very disappointing - I give it a 3. Overall, the only part I found entertaining was the action sequence at the end.
> 
> I thought the interaction between Will & Elizabeth stunk. Elizabeth suddenly becoming a swashbuckling expert was annoying. The multiple Jack's were distracting.
> 
> ...



 Elizabeth has, in theory, been serving in a pirate ship for a year or so, and was already good with a sword in PotC1.

There were several LOL moments in the movie for me and Mrs. Klaus, specially involving Jack the Monkey, the gnome artillerist, Gibbs, Jack & Barbossa, and the two side-switching soldiers.

The only Jacks I didn't much care about were the Tiny Jacks. I was expecting one to sport a halo and wings and another with a devil costume to show up.


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## Thanee (Jun 11, 2007)

Abraxas said:
			
		

> Oh, and I'm tired of having to sit through boring credits...




Credits are cool... all sorts of ideas for roleplaying character names! 

Bye
Thanee


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## Relique du Madde (Jun 11, 2007)

Thanee said:
			
		

> Credits are cool... all sorts of ideas for roleplaying character names!
> 
> Bye
> Thanee




It also gives you a nice list of people to blame for ruining a good franchise movie


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## paradox42 (Jun 12, 2007)

Aeric said:
			
		

> Sao Feng talking to Elizabeth as if she is Calypso, and her reacting as if she was.  Someone had to explain to me that he assumed she was Calypso by the way everyone was treating her and because she was the only woman around (Tia Dalma didn't interact with Sao Feng, IIRC).  BUT, as one of the nine Pirate Lords, he must have been there when they bound her in the first place.  And I can understand Elizabeth being canny enough to go along with the misunderstanding in order to get one over on Feng, but there should have been some kind of initial reaction on her part to communicate this.  Something like "what are you talking about?  I'm not--oh!  I mean, uhh...."  Funny and effective, and certainly fitting with the tone of these movies.



After seeing the movie for the second time with my friends last week, I can answer this one. The key is the interaction during the "quadruple-cross" betrayal-upon-betrayal scene where Sao Feng wants the Pearl and doesn't get it. Barbossa explains to him in that scene that he intends to get the Brethren Court together to release Calypso- and when he says that, he aims a glance at Elizabeth. Sao Feng follows said glance and clearly (to judge from his reactions later) comes to the conclusion that Elizabeth is in fact Calypso. But Barbossa knows perfectly well that Tia Dalma is- in other words, he was deliberately misleading Sao Feng in that scene (probably because he assumed that Sao would try to take her for himself).

It's a very subtle bit of acting and direction I thought, and it's definitely not the only one in the movie. There are layers upon layers to the plot and the acting here, people. This movie definitely rewards multiple viewings!

Pity so many people appear to have missed details and gotten confused so they disliked it. Me, I loved it- I'll join with the small number of posters who've said they thought it was the best of the three. *All* of the characters in this movie were complex and acted intelligently except for the comic relief squad (i.e., Jack the Monkey, the two Redcoats, etc.). And even Ragetti got a character-building moment in this movie by being the one who releases Calypso!



			
				Aeric said:
			
		

> Despite all of the confusion, there were some great elements in this movie.  All of the stuff with World's End reminded me of Baron Munchausen or Time Bandits, and the crabs inexplicibly helping Jack get the Pearl back into the water led credence to his story about sea turtles, even though we know that was a tall tale.  The town of Shipwreck was just plain amazing-looking, like something out of a Final Fantasy game.  And the pirates we met there looked awesome, especially the Spanish pirates and, of course, Teague.



I think there's also a way to explain the little stone-crabs in the Locker. Remember what Tia Dalma turns into when she discorporates after being released? Isn't that an interesting "coincidence" in light of the fact that she was with the party that sailed to World's End to get Jack and the Pearl? Isn't it curious that the crabs start moving the ship just when the rescue party comes ashore, and that they "just happen" to lead the ship to the ocean right next to the rescue party? I certainly thought so... 

And the town of Shipwreck reminded me instantly of (spoiler alert for Savage Tide)



Spoiler



the description for the Wreck which is the headquarters for the Crimson Fleet. PotC: AWE just one-upped the Adventure Path!


. It's almost certainly a case of convergent thinking, but still- now DMs who run that adventure have the perfect image to hit their players with. Nice bonus for gamers there, just as the Liars' Dice scene in DMC was.


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## Orius (Dec 21, 2007)

*Casts _thread resurrection_*.

Just saw it on DVD.  Not bad, but I think I liked the second one the best.  

Stuff I liked:

The rock crabs carrying the Black Pearl to the sea. 
Flipping the ship over.
Jack's spyglass.  
Captain Teague.
The big battle at the maelstrom.
The Pearl and Dutchman taking out the Endeavour.


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## Orius (Dec 21, 2007)

Particle_Man said:
			
		

> Now that I have done that, could someone please tell me what the hell Giant Calypso was saying?  I couldn't understand any of it.




Gibberish.  I hit the subtitles on the DVD, and it said something like "[Shouts incoherently]".

I have to say that I too was disappointed by the ending for Elizabeth and Will.  They've been trying to get together during all three movies, and now he apparently has to say the seas for eternity only to see her once every ten years?  Man, he got screwed.  

Now, if he only had to serve ten years because she was faithful to him, that's a bit better, and at least it's not sappy.  I agree that the whole heart thing was messed up if they chagned the premises behind it, I haven't seen DMC in a while, so I was forgetting a few plot points.

Multiple Jacks: Not bad when he's in the Locker itself, the whole surreal aspect works there.  But later on the Dutchman, it was just weird.


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 21, 2007)

Nice resurrection.

I just watched it myself on DVD.

This should've been two, maybe three films.

Way too much going on and the story gets the short stick as a result of it making it, for me, the least enjoyable of the movies.


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## Kid Charlemagne (Dec 23, 2007)

I loved the ending.  I thought it was 2nd best of the 3 - I really can't see how folks can like #2 best, as I personally was vastly dissappointed by it (which is why I'm only seeing #3 now).

The biggest problem with #2 is the lack of Barbosa.  Barbosa rocks.  Hard.  Keira Knightly's performance in #2 was also a dissappointment to me, and she made up for it in #3.

I saw the ending coming about halfway through.  I thought for a moment that Calypso would be bound again into Elizabeth's body, thus duplicating the Davy Jones-Tia Dalma pairing.  I caught the subtle misdirection by Barbosa regarding Calypso, and also Keira's quick picking up on Saio Feng's misunderstanding, which she used to her advantage.


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## John Cooper (Dec 24, 2007)

I finally got to see this last night on DVD.  Like several others who have posted on this thread, I enjoyed it, but it's my least favorite of the three.


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## frankthedm (Dec 25, 2007)

Liked most of it.

Was royally PO'ed that the kraken was offed off screen.


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## Banshee16 (Dec 29, 2007)

Orius said:
			
		

> to say the seas for eternity only to see her once every ten years?  Man, he got screwed.
> 
> Now, if he only had to serve ten years because she was faithful to him, that's a bit better, and at least it's not sappy.  I agree that the whole heart thing was messed up if they chagned the premises behind it, I haven't seen DMC in a while, so I was forgetting a few plot points.




I guess getting to see her once every 10 years is better than being dead.  But after 3 shore leaves, she's going to be like 50 years old.  It's a tragedy for both of them.

Many people thought that he would be released after 10 years if she stayed faithful, and that's the way I prefer to see it.  However, there's an insert in the DVD case that answers the question, and says that he gets to come ashore once every 10 years for eternity, and that he's not released from his service.

So, it's back to the "suckage" camp for an ending.

Banshee


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## Banshee16 (Dec 29, 2007)

paradox42 said:
			
		

> It's a very subtle bit of acting and direction I thought, and it's definitely not the only one in the movie. There are layers upon layers to the plot and the acting here, people. This movie definitely rewards multiple viewings!
> 
> Pity so many people appear to have missed details and gotten confused so they disliked it. Me, I loved it- I'll join with the small number of posters who've said they thought it was the best of the three. *All* of the characters in this movie were complex and acted intelligently except for the comic relief squad (i.e., Jack the Monkey, the two Redcoats, etc.). And even Ragetti got a character-building moment in this movie by being the one who releases Calypso!




I didn't find it that subtle.  Maybe, given the previous two movies, I was anticipating the double cross and, hence, watching for it, but I picked that up on the first viewing of the movie...I thought it was as subtle as a 2x4 between the eyes.

Banshee


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