# [Adult] Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, thread 2



## kolvar (Apr 3, 2002)

I know, if you count all the threads, that where on the last board, this would be thread number 5, at least.


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## MythandLore (Apr 3, 2002)

*[Adult] Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge?*

Were you planing on a children's version???  (sorry someone had to say it)


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 3, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *I know, if you count all the threads, that where on the last board, this would be thread number 5, at least. *




Mmh, there probably was more of those. Remember those threads for races, spells, your pregnancy-thread and something I've forgotten. 

Yep, since hentai-rules are different, I suppose material don't have to be swapped.


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## kolvar (Apr 3, 2002)

*Re: [Adult] Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge?*



			
				MythandLore said:
			
		

> *Were you planing on a children's version???  (sorry someone had to say it) *




Sure, someone had to ask. 
No, I doubt, that we will do a version for you (g).


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## kolvar (Apr 3, 2002)

Tanilen and others: what is your statement to keeping the normal guide as is and doing for the hentai guide everything anew?


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## Averil Wehstrom (Apr 3, 2002)

*Good News...*

Well, I'm actually making progress on the editing of the book. I've gotten all the chapeters done, save for the bit on prostitutes and porno mags, and the chapter on spells - a big job I'll be wading through this week.

We're almost there!!


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## Sorn (Apr 3, 2002)

*Questions*

Just got the edited chapters from Averil and will get going on the layout for those. 

Got a few questions for everyone though:

a) What is the official title of the book now? 
Complete Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Netbook of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge

This is not only to get all the self-references right, I might slightly alter the cover artwork. I printed it the other day from a B&W laser printer, and the way the title is done right now, it's hard to make out the darker parts of the gradient. Given the page count, I would assume that a lot of people are going to print it from a B&W (laser) printer. Hence, I want to lighten up the words a little.

b) Introduction

As of right now, we have the preface of the original guide, and a short paragraph from Kolvar that states "In place of a real preface, that is hopefully written by someone else..." Does anyone have the ambition to come up with a revised preface or do we just want to leave it as such?

c) Generator Sourcecodes

Currently, the guide contains the sourcecode for the periodicals and prostitutes. While this is great stuff, I personally doubt that anyone will type it up and put into a page. How about a simple link to the generators on the site instead? We could also make the code available on the site for  download or cut&paste.

d) Paper size

Given that almost all d20 material available on the 'net is published in US Letter format, I'd like to stick with that. Of course I could make an A4 version, but 1 version would certainly make my job easier. Since I never printed any letter-sized stuff on A4 paper, I don't know how it would come out. I know that printing A4 to US Letter is a pain, and many printers just automatically pick the bigger US Legal format, which is not only unwieldy, but also leaves a huge margin on the bottom. Could someone do a test-print of any Letter sized material on A4 and tell me how it comes out? I would do it myself, but I don't have any A4 paper. If you don't have any letter sized stuff, the layout preview on the site is done for Letter-sized paper.


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## Sorn (Apr 3, 2002)

*Rules question*

As I was going through the edited chapters, I noticed the "Maw Stuffing" and "Orifice Stuffing" Sex Tricks. Based on your ranks in Sexual Prowess, you can accomodate different sized objects. However, the numbers in the chart seem somewhat high. I have yet to see a character attain skill ranks in the 20+ range. Should that be changed to DC's rather than based on actual ranks?


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 4, 2002)

*Riot Gear here*

I haven't been active in this for a long time...  But I'd like to write the preface, if you're willing.

I kind of agree with Sorn, thinking about it - Those should be DC's.  I thought they WERE DC's.  That said, keep them difficult.  Getting anything that large inside you without killing yourself should be pretty darn hard.


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## Merior (Apr 4, 2002)

Talking of the guide, I noticed something when looking through it today.

To enter the Controller prestige class requires _"Sexual Prowess 4 ranks (two of which must be for Break Victim and Corrupt Lover)."_. Unfortunately the Break Victim and Corrupt Lover sex tricks aren't mentioned anywhere else in the guide...


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## tanilen (Apr 4, 2002)

ok, in no particular order here, spraying to all fields. . . . .

hentai guide or no. . . . . well, I would not mind a second book. Not becasue the rules are changed (they wont) but because we can preserve better the hard core from the merely just adult. However, any way you go, I will support.




Preface. . . . .I would like to question the inclusion of so much of the notes and anecdotes and prefaces from the first netbook---our book is so much more a new and original work, not simply a d20 update of the old netbook. We have completely new mechanics for Sex itself, the character classes and  prestige classes, feats, skills, etc. I think we would be better off ditching some of the extraneous parts from the first book and writing a special dedication to those who cam before, as well as an acknowledgement paragrraph indicating which parts in the bew book did come from the old.


Sex Tricks--- the tricks mentioned by Merrior were part of an older system we were using, but i would not mind seeing some of those sex tricks come back and incorporated into the new system.

my thoughts for now. I will be out of town for a while and may not be back till nxt tuesday


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## kolvar (Apr 4, 2002)

Name: I would go for "Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge" (it is neither a book nor complete and the layout is to good for one of those classical netbooks).

Preface: whoever wants to write it have a go. I just did the preface, because I included the preface to the first edition (thinking, that we would owe that much to the first creator. I allways thought of this work as an update, but you are probably right, that there are a lot of things that are our own now).

Dropping old Content: The Prostitute and Periodical Tables are just fun, the anecdotes, too (and I allways thought, that they gave a good idea, what you could do with the guide. I would drop them instantaneously if we had anecdotes ourself). The essay about homosexuals gives some insight and we got not much else about homosexuality.
The adventure ideas could be dropped for own ideas (but I think we should have some).
Spells: we could go for fewer spells with more "New Uses".
Credits for the old part: I just thought, that we had to credit these people and I just had no time to look throught their entries and the guide to see, who would stay and who not.

Hentai Guide: Sure, there will be a second guide. The question was more like: do we keep everything we got so far in the "normal" guide or will we drop some stuff and include it in the hentai version (how should we call this guide then? it should be named similar to the "normal" guide).

Letter or A4: do letter, Sorn (sorry, I just went with the format defaulted at my mashine)

Lets do those two Sex Tricks, that are missing.


Generator Sourcecode: I see no Problem with the sourcecode: we publish as PDF. Just copy the code and save it as html file.
On the other side, we still can put in the links to the pages (below the tables in the guide).


@Averil: you poor little saussage (some sayings just do not translate well (g)). The spells are a real pain.


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## Gez (Apr 4, 2002)

As for the title, myself I prefer "Unlawful Guide to Carnal Knowledge", but you do what you want. It's your netbook, not mine.

Dropping old content: you could drop the magazine thing. Without Gutemberg engine, nor industrial paper production facility, I doubt these would exist.

Frankly, you imagine a bunch of gnolls or harpy cutting tree, transforming the wood into paper, taking photos, redacting articles, editing all that and then printing it on the paper they made ? That would be very fun... But totally out of place in a fantasy setting.


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## Sorn (Apr 4, 2002)

@Anabstercorian: Go ahead and knock yourself out and write that preface. I'll be looking forward to it.

Re: Dropping old content.
I am all for it. While the little stories are nice and fine, they take up a lot of room. And I for one have read them already 7 years ago, when I first found the guide. I would assume that other old-timers have done the same. We do provide links to the old version of the guide, so people could check it out there. Plus, some of it is refering to old rules systems. However, I'd still say we give the original contributor's credit, as they inspired us to do this. 

The prostitutes should definitely stay. The size charts can be used for just about anything, including PC's. The periodicals are pretty funny and should stay too. They don't really take up that much room anyway. And even if there was no mass-production of magazines in medieval times, there was porn all over the place back in Roman times. With magic, there could easily be some sort of publicly available porn. Hell, merchants could be selling one-shot magic items that reproduce a "Pornographic Glamer". 

Re: Format
Letter it is then.

Re: Sourcecodes
I know you can copy and paste out of pdf's, however, how many people are actually going to create a page on their own with it instead of just going to the site? Even if they do copy and paste it out of the pdf, they will do that once, and then print out the complete guide, with several pages of code they will not need in their hardcopy. In any case, it gave me fond flashbacks of PC Game magazines in the mid-80's that had the complete code for new games in them. Some of them had 10 pages worth of 2 column, 6pt code for you to type up. Ahh... those were the days...

Re: Name
Well, I think we should at least keep the UCK part intact (at least to keep the domain name correct).

If we really wanted to go all out, we could just name it "Sex d20", but WotC is trying to get trademark status for "D20", so you can't use it in  the product title anymore...


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## kolvar (Apr 4, 2002)

than go ahead and drop the generators (sniff). Will put them up as zips. and give you the links to them. 

Somehow I wish, we had more material that is not rules only content.


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## Merior (Apr 4, 2002)

Since everybody seems to be discussing finishing up the main guide, talking about what to keep and what to remove, I've been looking through the guide in more detail and have started to to notice that there are a fair number of inconsistencies like the one I pointed out concerning the Controller prestige class...

Anybody else want to start going through and nitpikcing a bit for such things so we can get them sorted?

@kolvar: What sorts of things to do you want written up? NPCs, organisations, places? I've a couple of things in rough aroudn here somewhere, but I'm not certain they are the sort of thing that you want.


One last note: I've been going over the Sweet Tongue class I posted to try and make it more viable as a choice. Does anybody think that shift the hit dice to d6 (in line with a Bard) and increasing the Silver Tongue bonuses to +2, +4, +8 improve things at all?


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## Sorn (Apr 4, 2002)

@Merior: NPC & organization writeups sound great. A harem guild or a company of gay adventurers could be a lot of fun. Maybe some details for a brothel, festhall or temple to a lust deity. IMO, stuff like this would be a lot more useful than the handful of plot ideas we have right now.

Also, as far as homosexuality goes, apart from the adventure hooks, there's not really much there. Granted, there aren't really sex rules effects that would work differently in a same-sex scenario. 

I've been noticing a few things that are out of order as well as I was getting started on the layout. 

I'll compile a list once I get deeper into it.

Something which is missing in the version I got from Averil is a chart that lists the Difficulty of Pregnancy & Birth by race, Same goes for Ovulation by race. 

@Averil: I noticed that the chapter on pregnancy was cut down quite a bit, especially the section on "Outside Effects". Also there are large cuts in the disease chapter. Are those going to be back in the next draft version?


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## Sorn (Apr 4, 2002)

Double-post


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## Averil Wehstrom (Apr 4, 2002)

I think the big cuts in the pregnancy section you're talking about are where I condensed a bunch of stuff that was repeated, either in our own book or that could actually be found in the core rules (if I'm remembering correctly). 

If there was some glaring hack you think I made, please let me know, as I've completely missed it - and I hope I didn't cut something by accedent!

Also, all the code is now cut.


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## Sorn (Apr 4, 2002)

@Averil: In the pregnancy section, it just seems to be condensed. I just glanced at what you sent me and glanced at the version that's up on the site... Sorry about that. Certain things have been cut (like Planar Travel), but those sections didn't really have anything relevant to say anyway.

In the disease section, there have been pretty big cuts, which are not duplicated in the Core Rules. The following items are missing:

-Random Determination of Who is Diseased
-most of the magical STD's (Fiery secretion, orgasmic monster summoning, Mummy Crotch Rot, etc.) and a few of the mundane STD's. For those that have been renamed, it would probably be helpful to put the real-life names into the flavor text. But I have to agree that Satyr's Taint sounds a lot more "fantasy" than Enlarged Scrotum Syndrome.


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## kolvar (Apr 5, 2002)

@Merior: could you send a list, of what you got? The suggestions of Sorn seem quite alright. Something about prostitution in general would be nice (I allways wanted to do something about the different kinds and views of prostitution, but had neither the time nor the right vocabulary)

The pregnancy rules were something riot gear wanted to do and he always said, that he got them already (in some way or another)

@Averil: What have you cut from the pregnancy rules? (again: sniff)


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## kolvar (Apr 5, 2002)

@Sorn: You realy want to do something about Ovulation? it would be a pain to track for everyone playing a female character. And if it is done you would have to do pms, too. And that is something best done by the player.


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## kolvar (Apr 5, 2002)

I forgot: hordling/ Sex Demon Generator (first version) is up.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 5, 2002)

For name I prefer "Unlawful Guide to Carnal Knowledge".



			
				Sorn said:
			
		

> *Certain things have been cut (like Planar Travel), but those sections didn't really have anything relevant to say anyway.
> *




Yep, but I'd like to add, that guide is not actually finished work being edited, but 'Work in Progress'  being edited. Sometimes chapters lack flavor/rules/etc. I think sometimes adding more relevant stuff would be better, than just cutting such things off.



			
				Sorn said:
			
		

> *
> In the disease section, there have been pretty big cuts, which are not duplicated in the Core Rules. The following items are missing:
> 
> -Random Determination of Who is Diseased
> -most of the magical STD's (Fiery secretion, orgasmic monster summoning, Mummy Crotch Rot, etc.) and a few of the mundane STD's. For those that have been renamed, it would probably be helpful to put the real-life names into the flavor text. But I have to agree that Satyr's Taint sounds a lot more "fantasy" than Enlarged Scrotum Syndrome. *




I agree with Sorn here about those names.

Why is that other stuff missing, by accident or by purpose?

@Averil Wehstrom: Have you made any list about things you have edited out. It would be easier to compare versions in case we want to keep some stuff after all (maybe after re-writing it).


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 5, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *I forgot: hordling/ Sex Demon Generator (first version) is up. *




Hehe, I really like that one.


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## Sorn (Apr 5, 2002)

Re: Ovulation

This is somewhat of a double-edged sword. 

I don't really want to bog down female players with having to track their periods. I am married, so I know what kind of hassle this whole deal is in real life since I have to go through it with my wife every month. Both females in my gaming group would rather not have periods, and it has never come up in the game either. I think it's nice for them to get away from that hassle in the game and I also think they would kill the DM who wanted to introduce rules for that sort of thing. 

However, currently the rules only state  _"as long as it is the right "time of the month" for the female involved, each character simply rolls a Constitution check..."_. What is the "right time of the month? For humans, it's easy. We all know that. However, given the different life-spans  of fantasy races, should there not be a variation? In all previous literature, e.g. Elves usually have only 2 or 3 children over the course of 700+ years. Elves don't really strike me as the type that would be celibate in between, so there should be a lot more pregnant elves running around. Granted, their Fertility Check numbers reflect that, but I still think their Ovulation Cycles are more drawn out and we should have some info on this in the guide.

Another thing is length of pregnancy. I am sure halflings have a shorter pregnancy than humans. There should be some sort of table for that as well. The same table could include the Difficulty of birth/pregnancy for each race as well.


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## Sorn (Apr 5, 2002)

Okay, I went and checked the original guide, and grabbed the table for length of pregnancy from there. All we need is an entry for Half-Orcs, and we are all set there. I'd like to add the average difficulty ratings for pregnancy/birth to that table as well, so I'll be thinking about that and see if I can come up with anything.

Afterthought: The current table for length of pregnancy has fixed lengths. What do you guys think about changing that to something akin to the height/weight tables in the PHB? So, for Humans, instead of stating 9mo, we could do a 7 + 1d3 months. Elves normal length of pregnancy is 24, so there could be even more variation. Half-Breeds would have the  biggest variation, since it would be a mix between the two parent races. So, for a half-elf, it could be anywhere from 9 to 24 months. I kinda like a little bit of randomness, especially for something like pregnancy.

Also, as far as ovulation goes, upon re-reading the segment on conception yet another time, it finally dawned on me that ovulation is already covered in the base fertility DC, so we don't really need yet another piece of information in there. The poor half-orc women have a really short menstrual interval... I really feel sorry for their males...

Also, just as a general FYI: I obtained some more artwork, which I'll upload over the next few days. We are doing pretty well on the Prestige Classes, and I also received some (non-elven) artwork that will look great in the race chapter.


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## Merior (Apr 5, 2002)

@kolvar: Most of what I have is very rough, basically things that I had been toying with, but I can give you an overview of some of the bits that are vaguely coherent.

"Allies of the Leaf": A LG organization of half-elves to help others of their kind through the difficulties of being both elven and human as well as aiding mixed couples. Secretly backed by a group of dwarves who see encouraging elves to crossbreed rather than have pure elven children as a painless way of gradually getting rid of that race...

"Gordon of Keiffer": A paladin who has his own method of making those cleric's he bodyguards more relaxed... Nothing in his code of conduct says that he can't act like this, so why shouldn't he?

"Malavin Schwartdotter": An evil cleric whose blackmail scheme contains a unique way of preventing her captives being rescued.

"Douglas Rosewood": Somebody who proves just what can happen when frustation becomes too much for an immature mind.


There are more, but I'm not sure if anything else is ever going to turn into something readable.


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## Sorn (Apr 5, 2002)

@Merior: Sounds like a pretty cool addition to the Guide.

As far as other organziations go, my co-DM used a harem guild in one of our games, mostly used by the nobility to gather intelligence. He's an aspiring writer, so I'll ask him if he would be interested in actually writing the stuff up for the guide.


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## kolvar (Apr 6, 2002)

@Merior: sounds realy good.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 8, 2002)

Merior & Sorn, both ideas sound very interesting. When do we got to see more?


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## Sorn (Apr 8, 2002)

@Zelda: My buddy is interested in writing something up. He will try to get something together in the next few days. I'll see if I can get him to do some other stuff as well.


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## milo (Apr 9, 2002)

Where can I download what is already done for this


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## kolvar (Apr 9, 2002)

http://www.netbook-of-uck.net

(or take my home-page)


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 10, 2002)

*Attempt at a preface*

*The following may or may not be a work in progress, depending on how done I am.  I'll keep working on it over time.*

Welcome to the d20 Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge, the (as far as we know) most comprehensive guide available to including sexual content in your d20 games.  It's been a real work for us, something that we've put a little piece of ourselves in to.  It's been called unnecessary and silly, and it's been called brilliant, and it's probably a little of both.  Either way, we hope you enjoy it.
We began work on converting the original Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge to the d20 system on [date], and it's been slow going since then.  It's been a real thrill to have had the opportunity to see it take shape and grow from one mans idle dream to the ambition of many talented designers.  Some talented people have worked on this (myself included, I hope) and they've created a wide variety of materials that could be useful in a wide variety of play styles.


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## kolvar (Apr 10, 2002)

Sounds good so far. 
Could you include something that says something about how it has become more and more a new guide?
And you should include a bit about adult content.
(and it seemed to me, that we started not with one man's idle dream but that a lot of people had some "dreams" about it (g))


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 10, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *Sounds good so far.
> Could you include something that says something about how it has become more and more a new guide?
> And you should include a bit about adult content.
> (and it seemed to me, that we started not with one man's idle dream but that a lot of people had some "dreams" about it (g)) *




Yep, kolvar. Otherwise I like how it sounds too. Except that I am not a man, but never mind that.


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## Sorn (Apr 10, 2002)

I really like it too.


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 10, 2002)

So, what's our to-do list look like? I may actually have some writing time over the next few weeks, and if there's any crunchy bits I can work on, I'd like to offer what time I have.

I've also got some ideas for some new magic items and such; do we have any of those translated to 3e yet?


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## kolvar (Apr 11, 2002)

I think Sorn is allways happy, when he receives art, some essays, experiences etc would be useful, and if you like to do additional Magic Items (look at what is there), no problem there.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 11, 2002)

Yep Isewa. More. More. More. 

Here is something posted to me today for your amusement:

Girls Prayer


Before I lay me down to sleep,
I pray for a man, who's not a creep,
One who's handsome, smart and strong,
One who's willy's thick and long.
One who thinks before he speaks,
When promises to call, he won't wait weeks.

I pray that he is gainfully employed,
And when I spend his cash, wont be annoyed.
Pulls out my chair and opens my door,
Massages my back and begs to do more.

Oh! send me a man who will make love to my mind,
Knows just what to say, when I ask "How big's my behind?"
One who'll make love till my body's a twitchin,
In the hall, the loo, the garden and kitchen!

I pray that this man will love me no end,
And never attempts to shag my best friend.
And as I kneel and pray by my bed,
I look at the wanker you sent me instead.

Amen.


A Boy's Prayer:

Lord

I pray for a lady with big tits.

Amen


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## kolvar (Apr 11, 2002)

Somehow it is obvious, that a woman posted this prayers (g).


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 11, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *Somehow it is obvious, that a woman posted this prayers (g). *




Well actually, it was originally posted by certain man. Heheh, yep filled with gender-racism, but funny anyway.


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## Sorn (Apr 11, 2002)

@Zelda: Funny!!

@kolvar/Isawa: Always looking for more artwork.  More Organization/NPC writeups would be great as well. I'll check with my buddy tonight to see how the Harem Guild is coming.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 12, 2002)

Quiet here, well... this is BUMP.

Is there any stories coming? 

Hehe, if ex-Riot Gear, aka  Anabstercorian is listening, Melkor from gnome IR sure would make somewhat interesting iconic character for us. As to examples...

_
There was no light in Melkor`s Throne Room. He was there alone, contemplating, emanating almost visible aura of hatred, directed at those plotting to destroy him. 
Then his new concubine entered: 
-What troubles you, My Lord? 
-They are all uniting to crush me, once again! I was denied Toril! I was denied Oerth! 
Now they want to deny me Athas! 
-Do you want me to pleasure you, Dark One? She smiled, stripped herself off clothes, and kneeled before him in position of total servitude. He looked with desire upon her body, perfect if it wasn`t for her scars and bruises, remainders of fun they had together. 
-Not now, I have matters to attend to. You see, they have understood how MIGHTY and dangerous I am, that they must unite to have ANY hope in defeating me, but I MUST make them understand that they have NO hope, not at ALL! Then he laughed and disappeared in Cloud OF Darkness. 
_

Anyone else feel that way? 

(Yep, I might be kidding or might not...)


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## kolvar (Apr 12, 2002)

from what is that?


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 12, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *from what is that? *




Oh, it is just comment from IC-game me and Anabstercorian are playing here on en-world.

http://www.enworld.org/messageboards/showthread.php?s=&threadid=10042

(there are numberous threads of that one).

Melkor is avatar of certain evil deity in that game, and player has that character make occasionally pretty kinky things. (nothing much said, but anyway)

Little joke poited at Anabstercorian, because our Dm gave this kind of answer to than particular in-character line 

"ANSWER: This should be interesting reading for certain people ... "

I don't know how much inspiration or talent that player would have to write to our guide, however, hehee. 

Heheh, another one, just for fun:

_
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
-Melkor erupts in sinister laughter after hearing Siobhan`s words: -You want to hear what I want?! Well among other things, I want YOU! I desire you, and you will be mine, in body and soul, your resistance will make things only more funny, but finally you will totally submit to my will, and you will learn to find pleasure in pain, and suffering of others. Oh, and this loser Kalanyr won`t help you, I would squash him like a bug if he only had guts to face me, his power is no match for mine. 


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Siobhan's eyes flash with silver fire "And that's all there is to you, isn't there. Power and hunger. Like some sphere of annailation that developed a personality and a libido but still knows nothing more than how to devour and hunger. Well, don't worry about Kalanyr, he can take care of himself. And so can I. We will meet another time, Melkor. And you will find light can be just as powerful as your darkness._


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 12, 2002)

*A problem with the rules...*

Looking over the sexual tricks and the Sexual Prowess skill and such, and I've noticed a few things that might be problematic.

Let's assume a low- to medium-sex game, where the Sexual Prowess skill is not a class skill for any class. Let's make a feat called "Sexual Skill", that makes Sexual Prowess a class skill - after all, most people in a fantasy setting don't spend that much time solely devoted to improving their sexual technique.

Now, consider an "average" starting prostitute - probably a young woman (age 15 to 25) who's a bit down on her luck and finds that men are willing to pay her for carnal pleasures. 

1st level commoner, STR 9, DEX 11, CON 10, INT 10, WIS 11, CHA 13. Feats: Sexual Skill, Skill Focus (Sexual Prowess). Skill: Sexual Prowess +7 (4 ranks, +1 CHA, +2 from Skill Focus)

Here's the problem - she can't take very many sex tricks! She can take Easy to Read (req 2 ranks and CHA 12+), Greedy Lover (req 4 ranks and Easy to Read, and possibly Talk Dirty (if she has the ranks of Bluff),  but that's it. Also, because of the prerequisites on all the other tricks (most require Intuitive Lover or Dexterous Lover), she can't even take most of them until she gains several levels and boosts her stats - and let's face it, she's not likely to get much in the way of XP.

On top of that, the sex tricks don't scale well as the character gains ranks of Sexual Prowess. There's a few rank 1s (that all require certain higher-than-average stats), a couple of rank 2s, some rank 3s that all require rank 1s, few rank 4s, a bunch of 5s and 6s, then we jump to 8, then to 12.  It's not a very good curve.

I'm looking at reworking the tricks right now. First of all, I'm considering dropping a lot of the stat-based requisites, i.e. cutting down on how much Intuitive Lover and Dexterous Lover are used. I'm also thinking of moving the various (Sexual Act) Focus tricks to Rank 1, so that PCs/NPCs who don't have exception stats can still take a sexual trick or two with a couple of ranks of skill. I'm also thinking of adjusting the curve and spreading out some of the abilities. Some of the 8s and 12s should be higher, and the clump of 5s and 6s can be spread out more.

Anyone else have any ideas for how to make a smoother progression of tricks?

Also, I think that the advanced sex rules can be smoothed out even more; they still seem a bit clunkier than I'd like, but that's a whole separate discussion...


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## Sorn (Apr 12, 2002)

@Isawa:

Good thinking. The less clunky and the more easily accesible, the better it can be integrated into a "normal" game. From personal experience, most of my games feature a lot of sex, but don't revolve totally around it (i.e. most characters are trying to get laid during rest periods or use sex to get access to information/favors from horny NPC's). I doubt that there are too many people who are going to base an entire campaign on sex (e.g. a prostitute game instead of "classic" adventuring), so any feats/skills that could be used for either style would be prefered. 

The proposed "Sexual Skill" Feat would work, but I think that certain classes should get Sexual Prowess as a class skill to begin with, if not all classes (similar to Craft or Profession). Alternatively, anyone who ever had sex could get it as a class skill afterwards.

If we do end up creating said feat, it should provide additional benefits as well, like maybe additional sex tricks or a bonus to Bluff. 

Stat requirements for sex tricks should be lowered or cut altogether. I have heard quite a few stories from friends that basically said "He/she was ugly, weak and dumb as a rock, but it was the best sex I ever had in my life."


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 12, 2002)

@Sorn:

Well, originally I thought the shifiting DCs for arousal was a good idea, but in retrospect I violated one of my cardinal rules of game design:

Whenever possible, do not make the rules reliant on a chart.

(Too many bad experiences with Gamma World 3e and Marvel Super Heroes, but I digress... )

So I propose changing the actual mechanic to something a bit more akin to combat. Give characters a Sexual Armor Class (let's call it Sexual Resistance or somesuch) equal to 10 + Wisdom Modifier + Con Modifier. That's the DC someone has to hit to move that character up the Arousal scale. All the tricks still work (since many are based on combat feats already), and there's no extra bookkeeping, but it's easier than shifting DCs based on a chart. 

That also makes it easier to track how certain situations change how easy it is to bring someone to orgasm. A condom, for example, might add +3 to Sexual Resistance in exchange for preventing pregnancy and disease, or a numbing balm might add 1d4+1 to Sexual Resistance for 2d6 minutes. 

Ideas, commentary, criticism?


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## kolvar (Apr 13, 2002)

comming full circle, I would say. We had this idea some time ago, I believe and many others and somehow I realy would not mind, if I was not so eager to see the finished product printed on my desk.
Each new stat, we introduce, we go further away from the standard rules.


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 13, 2002)

@kolvar:

Well, I don't know if we need to label it as a separate stat. I agree that it's something to avoid, but I think we can work around it. I'm thinking something along the lines of how the Intimidate skill is worded. "The DC is typically 10 + the target's Hit Dice." So, on the Sexual Prowess skill we just add:

"Bringing someone closer to climax involves overcoming both their stamina and their willpower. The DC is typically 10 + the target's Constitution modifier + the target's Wisdom modifier. Certain feats, sexual tricks, items, and spells can raise or lower this DC."

There. Now we have our "extra stat", but it's done completely in line with the rest of the rules set.

Next, I'll work on tweaking the sex tricks and fixing the pre-reqs on those to scale better. I don't think it should take long to do, especially if I can get input from people.

---

Also, I just finished the first draft of a brief essay on incorporating sex into a fantasy campaign. I'll post it here in a few hours - have some errands to run first today.


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## Kichwas (Apr 13, 2002)

Interesting project...

I'm not sure I agree with the nature of some of the different races on sexual behaivoir. Never thought of Gnolls as matriarchal. Is that Hyena's behave?

But then Mongoose's Slayers Guide to Gnolls has heavily influenced my opinion of the race.

I'd probably make Orcs more sexual-dominance focused; less about reproduction of the strong. The old theme of Orcs raping and pillaging is just too prevelent in fantasy fiction.


What the art status for this project?

I do a bit of 3D art and have put my foot in my mouth on a number of occaisions stating that I feel there is a place for sensual imagry and eroticism in fantasy and fantasy art. So to finish putting my foot in my mouth I'd be happy to donate work to the book.

I have a gallery here:

http://www.renderosity.com/gallery.ez?ByArtist=Yes&Artist=arcady

And could make more images 'to order' if I liked the theme I was making them for.


Lastly... this would make a very interesting addition to PCGen  , how 'finished' are the core aspects of it?


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## kolvar (Apr 14, 2002)

Sorn is responsble for the art. If you like, you could contact him directly

PCGen: actually, I was thinking about building a data-file for this tool, but wanted to wait, till I get to see all the changes Averil made.


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## tanilen (Apr 14, 2002)

I would not mind seeing some revisions done to the sex tricks system, as I do find all of the different attribute modifiers everwhelming for basic characters. Also, I am a bit confused. If I have both powerful lover, and intuitive lover, so i get to add both my strength and wisdom modifiers, plus my charisma modifier, to the sex roll, or only the highest?

I would prefer to remove the attribute tricks completely from the requisites from the other tricks, and then leave them there to be used by characters who would rather use an Attribute other than charisma to modify their roll.

As to the problem of the hooker based on a 1st level commoner, well, i think thats kinda appropriate----I mean, commoner type working gals aren't always gonna be the most skilled or talented at ther craft, thier just willing or desparate.  If you are looking for a more skilled lady of the night, then use the expert class to make her a courtesan---I actually did do this, making a courtesan npc class based on the expert. it is in my orginal version of the book located on the Naked Blades sight (see link from home page)

As far as changing the arousal check, is anyone willing to do some play testing via irc? I have some concerns about it becasue it seems to take away the recieving character's save roll. 


Tan


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 15, 2002)

tanilen said:
			
		

> *I would not mind seeing some revisions done to the sex tricks system, as I do find all of the different attribute modifiers everwhelming for basic characters. Also, I am a bit confused. If I have both powerful lover, and intuitive lover, so i get to add both my strength and wisdom modifiers, plus my charisma modifier, to the sex roll, or only the highest?
> 
> I would prefer to remove the attribute tricks completely from the requisites from the other tricks, and then leave them there to be used by characters who would rather use an Attribute other than charisma to modify their roll.
> *




Agreed on the prerequisites. Also, that _is_ how the attribute tricks are supposed to work -- they replace the Charisma modifier, not stack with it.



> *As to the problem of the hooker based on a 1st level commoner, well, i think thats kinda appropriate----I mean, commoner type working gals aren't always gonna be the most skilled or talented at ther craft, thier just willing or desparate.  If you are looking for a more skilled lady of the night, then use the expert class to make her a courtesan---I actually did do this, making a courtesan npc class based on the expert. it is in my orginal version of the book located on the Naked Blades sight *




Good point. However, the 1st level commoner should at least have one or two things he or she is good at. So the question is, do we make more sex tricks available at low levels, or cut down on how many sex tricks a character can take, or some other solution?



> *As far as changing the arousal check, is anyone willing to do some play testing via irc? I have some concerns about it becasue it seems to take away the recieving character's save roll.
> *




Let me know a time, server, and channel, and I'll see what I can do. Yes, it does take away the receiving character's save roll, but we could make the receiving character's save optional -- if your partner hits the DC, you can either go with it or try to resist - with a DC of their Sexual Prowess check result. 

Basically the goal of streamlining the sex system (IMHO, anyway) would be to make the system even more consistent with existing d20 rules and by reducing the number of rolls and required charts as much as possible, while still keeping the "flavor" of sex.

As a side note, I think that this streamlining can be done without disrupting any other work on the book. We're not totally revamping the rules, just tweaking them and tightening them up. If we can finish it up quickly enough (playtesting on IRC should help), I think we can do it with nary a bump in production time.


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## Sorn (Apr 15, 2002)

As much as I'd like to get going on the final layout and print myself a copy of the guide, I think Isawa and Tanilen are on the right track with their revisions to the sex skill. Keep going on it. 

@arcady: I checked out your art gallery, and I liked what I saw. However, just about all of our existing artwork is done in B&W pencil or ink. We don't really have any CG art in there yet, so I'll have to see how we can blend your work in. I'll keep you posted. However, one area where CG might actually be preferred is magic items. We hardly have any art in there, so if you want to take a peek at the magic items we have and make some models of a few of them, that would be great. Please keep it grayscale on a white background.

Thanks,


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## tanilen (Apr 16, 2002)

for the online play testing,

try looking for me at #tanilen on dalnet from between 10pm-12pm pacific coast time. I am there right now and i will try andf log in every night this week.

if you come in during this time and dont find me, e-mail me at tanilen@yahoo.com to wake me up 

For those wishing to participate, please already have your character(s) ready to go and in a format you can e-mail to me. create them using the new rules in our net book. try and keep them around levels 3-6, but if you want to play with one of the prestige classes, thats cool too


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## kolvar (Apr 16, 2002)

Because I got nothing better to do, I have build a small logging mechanism for the download of the draft file and will use it for Version 1.0, just to see, how many times it was downloaded.
implemented it for the draft-version last week
http://www.netbook-of-uck.net/counter.php

(if anybody is interested in putting sumething up to get it counted, contact me.)


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## Kichwas (Apr 16, 2002)

ART FRONT: 







			
				Sorn said:
			
		

> [B@arcady: I checked out your art gallery, and I liked what I saw. However, just about all of our existing artwork is done in B&W pencil or ink[/B]




Like this:
http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=170592&Start=1&Artist=arcady&ByArtist=Yes
(mature viewers only)

That's just a quicky to test out some ideas. 


RULES FRONT: I haven't read this guide in full. But I've followed some of the comments in this topic.

If you want this thing to be taken as anything but humor by the fan base it will need to be 'hardcore' on the d20 standards issue.

So cutting down on those tables and making the mechanics seem as much like the existing d20 mechanics as possible is a good idea.

Find a theme to stick everything to rules wise, and make it feel as d20 as possible and as non-ad&d as possible.

From a glance through the guide it looks like it's going in the right direction. Perhaps once I sit down and read it I'll see more of what's being discussed here.

I do have reservations about the section describing the practices of different races. That section should get a bit of editing to bring each race in line with popular thinking and with what seems to best match the race as described in the Monster Manual or commonly used d20 sources (if appropriate).


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## kolvar (Apr 16, 2002)

well, who would have thought, an elf with a crucifix!


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## Sorn (Apr 16, 2002)

Arcady: That's pretty cool. Any more stuff like that?


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## Kichwas (Apr 17, 2002)

Here's another in the same style:

http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/images/NSorceressA.jpg
A quick modification of the primary focal character in one of my other works from my gallery.

Here's another in a completely different style:
http://home.pacbell.net/arcady0/images/BubbleGumSorceress.jpg
Another modification of an older work.


The same warning as before goes on this image. Mature viewers...

But I think that warning applies to this entire topic (if it doesn't I'll stop posting these links).


EDIT:
One more:
http://www.renderosity.com/viewed.ez?galleryid=171587&Start=1&Artist=arcady&ByArtist=Yes


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 17, 2002)

@Tanilen: 10 to 12PM Pacific time? Oof... that's midnight to 2AM Central here. I don't know if I can do anything that late _this_ week, but perhaps next week. If anything, that lets me get some characters together.

@arcady: Interesting. I've never been a huge fan of Poser art and such as illustration in books - tends to look too plastic for my tastes - but those "sketched" versions look really nice.


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 18, 2002)

Here's something interesting - just picked up _Armies of the Abyss_ from Green Ronin Publishing, and in Appendix 1, there's a new Pleasure domain that revolves around sexual pleasure. It also includes 2 new spells for that domain: _phantasmal lover_ and _phantasmal orgy_. Best part - it's all OGC, so we can incorporate it into our guide as long as we give credit.

If anyone wants more details, let me know. They've also got stats on Incubi in there, as well as a demon called an alrune that's straight out of horror hentai.


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## kolvar (Apr 18, 2002)

Yes, yes, yes, lets incorporate it.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 18, 2002)

I agree.  Hopefully we get more their product into our hobby shop in Finland. I like Green Ronin stuff.

I am suffering from flu, so not much around lately here.

Welcome, arcady.


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## LostSoul (Apr 18, 2002)

*Re: A problem with the rules...*



			
				Isawa Sideshow said:
			
		

> *Now, consider an "average" starting prostitute - probably a young woman (age 15 to 25)
> ... and let's face it, she's not likely to get much in the way of XP.*




I doubt it.  Women of the night probably have to face Challenges every night.


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## kolvar (Apr 18, 2002)

Something I never have thought of:
Pregnancy and XP

http://www.realmsofevil.net/cgi-bin/community/YaBB.cgi?board=general&action=display&num=1019052685


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 18, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *Something I never have thought of:
> Pregnancy and XP
> *




Oh, good point. In our games we have always given exp for that kind of things. Comes from our Rolemaster games I guess: exp for travelling, exp for dying and sfuff like that.


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## Sorn (Apr 18, 2002)

Ahh... Poser... great piece of Software. I never noticed the sketcher before, so I loaded it on my new laptop. I might play around with it a little bit too... the more art, the better....


If there's an official OGC Pleasure domain, let's use it. Nothing better than consistency across the d20 world.

Let's all check our books and make sure that there's no other OGC spells, domains, etc. that would apply to the guide.


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## kolvar (Apr 18, 2002)

@Sorn: the somehow funny thing is, that, after the version 1.0, everything we put into the guide is in a way official OGC (even now it is actually). 

@arcady: I never said something about the art (only made comments): I like it

@all: should we give some possible XP-values for pregnancy?


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## Kichwas (Apr 19, 2002)

I'd say it should get XP.

Of course in my opinion there's a very strong difference between a woman who's a mother and one who isn't...

Enough to almost call it a prestige class for commoners. At least enough that it should level some women.

It definately qualifies as a challenge. One which without proper care can often be lethal.

You could come up with a list of CR's depending on how difficult the pregnancy is and put in some checks for survival and health of the mother and the child.

Both risk the possible loss of life as well as permanent damage to Con and Str. The child also risks loss to any of it's stats if the mother's pregnancy goes poorly.

You could put together a monthly CR check with modifiers for health, diet, and environment.

Pass the check and get XP proper for that CR. Fail it and you and or the child takes damage or even stat loss.


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## kolvar (Apr 19, 2002)

mhm, how to do it without lots of tables for modifications? 

How about surviving an abortion? Would someone, who succeeds her check, receive XP, too? it is potentially lethal, too.


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## Sorn (Apr 19, 2002)

Instead of creating complicated XP tables, leave it up to the DM. Depending on the circumstances, a table might not even have all the answers anyway.

To be vague about XP awards falls right into the d20 feel. I don't think I have yet seen a good run-down of example XP awards for non-combat in a d20 game. I always wing it.


I wouldn't make "Mother" a prestige class
. It's more of a Template if you ask me. This way it could easily be applied to any character as well. IIRC, there was something about Mothers in one of the pre-3e Dragon Mags. I'll have to see if I can find that issue and come up with a similar Mother Template for 3e. 

@kolvar: re OGC... I know what we are making is going to be OGC and therefore officially part of the d20 system. I was referring to "official" as in "professionally" published. In any case, if we can use something from a accredited d20 source like Green Ronin for our little book, I think we should. This will keep things consistent. It also allows players who already have the green ronin book to keep their character the way it was and not be tempted by new material. 

I started playing 3e shortly after it came out, so I created my character with just the PHB. As more material flooded the market, cooler stuff became available and I was stuck with some choices I wouldn't have made if I had had some of the newer stuff available.


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## kolvar (Apr 19, 2002)

You are right Sorn, I did not intend to lecture you, it is more, that I got excited about the thought. 

so, who writes a short paragraph about Pregnancy and XP?

Somehow I got a mean mind at the moment, because my new job sucks and I am constantly tired. i.e. read everything I write twice and think the best of it (g).


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## Kichwas (Apr 19, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *How about surviving an abortion? Would someone, who succeeds her check, receive XP, too? it is potentially lethal, too. *



Sure.

And not it's not an ethical question because we're not saying if it affects her alignment; we're just giving it XP.

(in fact we'd be best off not saying anything about alignments anywhere near any page mentioning abortion in order to avoid this whole 'issue').


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## Sorn (Apr 19, 2002)

Kolvar: no offense taken... I just wasn't sure whether we were talking about the same thing. But you are right, it is cool to be part of the d20 system.


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## kolvar (Apr 22, 2002)

arcady said:
			
		

> *Sure.
> 
> And not it's not an ethical question because we're not saying if it affects her alignment; we're just giving it XP.
> 
> (in fact we'd be best off not saying anything about alignments anywhere near any page mentioning abortion in order to avoid this whole 'issue'). *




If we give XP for an abortion, a lot of people will argue, that you either give XP for good role-playing or for the completion of a task (or for killing). In both cases, you we will be blamed as pro-abortion, because.

As soon as we touch the topic in the guide from this side, we have to brace ourselves against complains and flames (OK, is is just another flame we got to brace against, considering the nature of the guide)


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## Kichwas (Apr 22, 2002)

You're not giving it for either task or killing.

You're giving it for overcoming a life threatening challenge. Abortion is a deadly proceedure to undergo in all but very modern and advanced societies.

Without magical or 1st world technological aid it should result in about a 50% kill ratio of the pregnant woman.

With magical or tech aid I'd set the CR of it at 0, and thus give no XP.

In d20 mechanics Abortion and Pregnancy are 'Traps' with a DC and a CR and a resulting list of damages if you fail the DC.

Like traps, you get XP based on the CR.

If you take all emotion out of what either task is and does; they are very much traps in the mechanical sense: They are situation that can kill or harm you if you don't engage in them with proper proceedure.

Abortion would also have elements of a poison: there is the immediate damage, but then is also a secondary damage that kicks in later (most women who die from it die after hours of bleeding agony, it's not pleasant but before RvW was very common...).


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## kolvar (Apr 22, 2002)

What is RvW?

somehow, I am a bit old-fashioned, it seems. In my campaigns, you receive XP for completing tasks (what ever that means), for good role-playing and for killing (OK, overcoming foes). 
But it does not matter, how you name it, the problem remains, that, as soon as we put something into the guide, that concerns abortion, we better hope, that some of the darker elements in US-society do not lay hands on the guide. (thank god, the server is somewhere else). And I write this knowing, that the whole guide will bother a lot of mothers over there.
That is not to say, that I would argue against giving XP for abortion. 
Your points are very much valid. 

How about someone writing a chapter about XP for sex, pregnancy, abortion etc?
And afterwards we discuss, what is written, and not, what is not written.


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## Kichwas (Apr 22, 2002)

RvW: Roe vs. Wade.  Going any further on that reference will likely turn this into a massive flame war. That's the Supreme Court case that legalized abortion in the US.


D20 officially gives XP for surviving traps and other dangerous challenges. That's the precident involved for abortion.

The precident for pregnancy is both surviving a trap and going through a massive life changing and growing experience.

There is no need in the book to discuss anything. It can simply be presented as a series of trap DCs and CRs and modifiers to the DC based on health:

*Pregnancy and abortion for d20*
Here's some ultra rough rules (come up with on the spur of the moment).

Mother on good diet: +2
Mother on normal diet +0
Mother on poor diet: -2
Mother malnurished: -4
Mother in low stress environment: +2
Mother in normal environment: +0
Mother in high stress environment: -2
Also add Con bonus/penalty
Some other mods based on midwife assistance and magical aids.
(perhaps a midwife lets you take 10 on the roll)

Roll the DC monthly to check status of pregnancy. Use the 'lamaze/midwifery skill' which is a CON based class skill for all women (cross class for men, class for cleric and druid (and some experts)). Others can Aid in the check (the mid wife or mate for instance).

Heal gives a synergy bonus.

The CR is based on age of mother, as is the base DC.


```
[color=white]
          CR DC
under 15: 2  12
15-25 :   1   8
25-30:    2  12
30-40:    3  16
40+:      4  20
[/color]
```
(those DC numbers may need adjusting)
Modify age as appropriate for species, the above is human.

Failure causes 1d6 damage to the mother and child. Which could result in miscarraige (perhaps we assume the child has 1 hit point plus Con mod of mother for these purposes).
Failure also results in fort saves for both mother and child (DC as above).
A failed save for the child results in a permanent loss of 1d4 stat points.
A failed save for the mother results in a permanent loss of 1 point to Con or Str.

If a mother loses 2 stat points throughout a pregnancy it results in a misscarraige and her womb going barren.


Abortion:
Is a trap DC. 5 higher than the DCs for pregnancy above. Failure results in 1d6 immediate damage and 2d6 secondary 4 hours later.
The CR is also like that for pregnancy, as are the modifiers.
If the DC is failed a fort save at DC 15 is required; if it is failed the woman's womb goes barren.


XP is derived using the trap rules for a given CR.


These rules of course need refinement. For one thing they need some kind of modifiers to account for the variation in different trimesters of pregnancy. Off hand I don't recall which trimesters incur the greatest risks.


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 23, 2002)

@Tanilen: I should be free Friday evening/Saturday morning for some playtesting. Are you available?


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## tanilen (Apr 23, 2002)

Friday night? i'll be there! If you could, please e-mail me your character(s) ahead of time, and whatever kind of scenario you wanted to playtest, so i can prepare.


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## kolvar (Apr 23, 2002)

@arcady: i like your rules. (although I still think, a trap differs "slightly" from an voluntary abortion, and therefore would not count that as precedent (but I am not bothered about giving XP for an abortion, only by the implications)). Well, what to do about the other pregnancy rules? Nothing flat there, just some rolls throughout.

@all: seen the news about Book of Vile Darkness? Very interesting. Prostitution.


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## Fox Lee (Apr 23, 2002)

Um... heyho. At the risk of sounding like a pathetic newbie, hi, I'm new around here ^^  I got referred to this particular thread from the D&D newsgroup, when some of my "adult" art was referenced there, and it was suggested that I might want to see if you'd like any of it for the uck book. So, um, here're some URLs if you feel like taking a look  - I don't know if my anime/manga-style stuff is what you're after, but it can't hurt to try, ne? ^^

Oh yeah - it's kinda obvious from the topic and all, but this is all evil smutty stuff! Mature viewers only, yanno? ^_^

http://fly.to/namida - That's my adult page, if you wanna skip these individual links and look at the lot.

http://welcome.to/FLStudios - Yeah, I also do clean stuff ^^;;;;

Individual links:

http://shatteredreality.net/foxlee/nnt/kelfinger.gif - Kel and Lloryn, a couple of characters from a very twisted Ravenloft campaign. This pic is female/female - the elf is actually male, but hey, 'Polymorph' is your god ^^

http://shatteredreality.net/foxlee/nnt/landrbond.jpg - Nother D&D character. This didn't actually come to pass, but it was spurred by a campaign setting that had our party indebted to a curious young gold dragon. This pic's male/male, with added bondagey goodness.

http://shatteredreality.net/foxlee/nnt/shebond1.jpg - Actually a fanart of Sheik from the Legend of Zelda ^^; 'Tis bondage again.

http://shatteredreality.net/foxlee/nnt/kelgrope2.gif - Kel an' Lloryn again, the latter once again in female form.

http://shatteredreality.net/foxlee/nnt/maraven.gif - Bloody Mary and Raven, pirate and cabin boy. My D&D characters have an unholy tendency to get involved in this kind of stuff.

http://shatteredreality.net/foxlee/nnt/darksiren.gif - Gift art fur a friend, weird sorta half-demon-angel sketch. *Shrugs* Make of it what you will ^^

Okeh, that's enough of that, sorry for taking up so much space ^^; ... Any comments? Would you do me the honour of using my work? ^^


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## kolvar (Apr 23, 2002)

Nice stuff there.
No problem with the space (g)


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## Sorn (Apr 23, 2002)

Fox: Great stuff. I am sure I can find a worthy spot for your artwork.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 24, 2002)

Fox: really really nice pics.

And you are welcome with comments and opinions on our work too.


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 24, 2002)

*The "Silliness" factor?*

While reading the thread on the general board about the upcoming _Book of Vile Darkness_, I've noticed a number of people saying that they'd avoid something like this guide because of the immaturity that is associated with it. They're more interested, they say, on a guide that focuses on the more serious and/or spiritual sides of sex in a gaming world.

Honestly, I can't say I blame them.

That said, I think we've got a lot of good material in the guide. Sections on pregnancy and prostitution are good, and the sexual metamagic feats are good too. We've also got a lot of spells that are aimed towards seduction, contraception, midwifery, and the like -- all of which could easily fit into a "serious" campaign with nary a problem.

Of course, we've also got "Prismatic Dildo", the Pimp prestige class, and the Strap-On of Astounding.

We've already got a hentai web enhancement in the works, so what about the possibility of moving the more tongue-in-cheek elements of the guide into that enhancement. Let the main guide focus on the more "real world" aspects of sex (with a fantasy twist, of course), and let the enhancement deal with the more outrageous aspects and items. That way, the guide is divided more along the lines of what people want - a serious guide for the more serious games, and a humorous add-on for people who want a laugh. 

Ideas, comments, criticisms?


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## Sorn (Apr 24, 2002)

@Isawa: I see where you are coming from. However, where do we draw the line on what gets into the "funny" book and what makes it into the serious one? One might think that the "Pimp" PrC is slapstick, while someone else is happy that he finally has a cool PrC for his favorite NPC. 

IMO, sex is fun. Let's leave the more tongue-in-cheek stuff where it is. DM's are smart enough to  pick the stuff we want. People who are not interested in rules for sex and prostitution won't get the guide to begin with. If the general response to the guide is that it is too slapstick, we can always re-edit it to be more serious.


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## kolvar (Apr 24, 2002)

@Isawa: I have had the same concerns, when I read the thread. But somehow, the Guide without the silly stuff would not be the same. We were attracted to the 2nd E guide for completely different things, as far as I can see, but the sillyness of some of the stuff had something for it, and I think, I would miss it. 

How about a poll? There are enough people, who seem to be interested in the guide (over 100 downloads, since I implemented the counter and that was long after the last update). Will do one.

By the way: How far is Averil with the editing?


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 24, 2002)

@sorn and kolvar:

I love the fun aspects too - I subscribe to the Xxxenophile shool of sexuality.  However, at the same time I realize that not everyone wants a humorous guide to sex; some people actually want a more serious guide, and some will actively shun the BoUCK simply because of the less-serious portions, even if they'd otherwise like the content.

That said, the basic guidelines _I'd_ use for the dividing line are as follows:

1) Any content on pregnancy, midwifery, contraception, and fertility/infertility goes in the serious guide.
2) Any content on the basic mechanics for sex resolution goes in the serious guide.
3) Any content on seduction/charm and associated magics goes in the serious guide.
4) Any patently humorous or intentionally "over-the-top" items/spells/etc. go in the hentai add-on. Also, tentacles and all associated items go in the hentai guide.

Basic guideline: if you'd use it in a serious campaign, it goes in the serious guide; otherwise, it goes into the hentai add-on.

By those guidelines, here's the list of things I would cut from the main guide (if it were my decision - it's not, of course);

Porno Periodicals of Humanoids

Pimp PrC
Tentacle Master PrC

Spells
------
Annihilator's Penis of Power
Bitch Slap
Embarrassing Fetish
Flash
Freudian Thoughts
Heterophobia/Homophobia
Luwain's Everlasting Hard-On (perhaps just a name change)
Masturbation
PMS
Power Word, Castrate
Prismatic Dildo
Resist Self
Skank
Slap
Strip
Summon Cissaldan
Tweak/Goose

Psionic Powers
----
Willy's Partial Expansion

Items
----
Castration weapons
Raping weapons
Dagger of Circumcision (debatable)
Rod of Pillows
Rod of Vibration
Tentacular Staffs
Phallic Wands
Sheet of Useful Toys
Strap-On of Astounding
Teeny-Weeny Bikini
Underwear items

Monsters
----
Recondite
Skirtseeker
Twat Mouse
Wild Oats

----------

Magic items get hurt the most, since most of those were lifted directly from the 2e guide. Spells, on the other hand, don't get changed all that much, since the vast majority are focused on pregnancy and seduction.

Also, I noticed that several of the spells are either very weak on mechanics, or duplicate other spells (Sexual Nerd and Layla's Uglification, for example).


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 25, 2002)

Hey how so 'Resist Self' is not a serious spell. 

I like idea of splitting guide thus, because it's logical. However, I woudn't call hentai part web enchantment then, rather part 2  with 'hentai'-type name for it.

I like the silly stuff too. Yeh, it makes me think 'this is sooo tastelessly silly' but makes me laugh too. In world of where magic exist some wizards and clerics of deities of love (carnal love) might come with pretty weird inventions. Sexuality has many twists in real world, some of them, truly weird. Isewa, are you speaking 'unusual sex' in general should be in hentai book or just 'silly'? 

Some realism is good, but hentai for example has another kind of 'reality' for it's realism. Regular porn works under its own realistic rules as well, though they don't go that far from reality.

Besides some items sold in real life to be used to 'enchant sex life' are pretty silly, sort of at least. Names, if nothing else. Those type of people who buy 'Real Dolls' in real life (and can afford it), would probably be people in fantasy world who buy expensive golems meant for same purpose, but more fun?/livable. Creations of magic tend to be more miraclous, than lacking technology or real world. Imagination is not enough I think, to guess the actual amount of stuff people would do and invent, if magic such in D&D existed.

Well anyway. Moving certain parts into other book would help make book more logical and useful. There are spells now in book I know, written very different theme in mind, for example. Separating these themes would not be such a bad idea. They would still be one book. Part 'one' for more common ideas for sex and part 'two' for extra themes.

Many games have common theme and leave additional themes for additional book. Yep, to sell more books too. 
For example, Spycraft took out psionics/'chemical monsters'/mysticism and publishes them in separate Shadow..(forget what) Archer. Apperantly because many had commented, that they don't want to mix supernatural themes in their spy-games. 

Though I don't know, if that helps book's reputation or anything like that. Some people just hate the subject of sexually concentrated themes in rpg no matter what. They are ok with erotic or mayhaps even kinky picture in regular product, but book including name 'sex' or 'carnal' makes their 'no' reactions kick in.

Oh, and our guide probably gets compared to games like 'f.a.t.a.l'
by people just go for them 'sex' as 'evil' or 'immature sexually frustfrated teenager "roleplaying"'. Ah, and on sidenote, I dislike fatal being mentioned in same sentance than our guide.

I've actully read some of it. System is for table/detail fanatic. Tables are many, are truly work of 'love' (for tables, and tables and tables). It is way too long. It is booring. It is not very kinky game, actually, because it's so detailed it is boring and because of it's theme. It's tone is negative and nihilistic. It has medievil (spiritual) world view right out of 'Malleus Maleficarum' ("Hammer of the Witches"). Many monsters were inspired IMO by said book at least, likevise many things concidering females, they omitted certain harm factor for males (from monsters, spells, etc), curiously. Game is neither very RL nor D&D in spirit. I suspect it became legendary though some flame war, otherwise it's name would not have gotten such attention. Very misogynistic depressive idea for a game. Few nice ideas for spells/critters, but nothing truly original. I don't recomend you checking it out, it's not worth it.

Nothing like our guide, that is.

Most use of for our guide will come out of 'amusement factor'. People will download it and laught at 'silliness' that some people actually wrote 'D&D guide to sex' and 'isn't that joke getting old' and then they might even read it and laught at some silliness they actually find in it. 

Different people's ideas of silliness vary too.

Some parts might be used in regular games, by those people who are not bothered about book's 'name'.
Fewer would be those, who actually used the system for sex.

We will receive very little response from people, and people would commonly be very shy to admit, that some of our ideas/spells are cool and say using them.

That's my guess, at least.

I have a feeling, if make poll mentioned. Responses would come mostly from us.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 25, 2002)

*Re: The "Silliness" factor?*



			
				Isawa Sideshow said:
			
		

> *While reading the thread on the general board about the upcoming Book of Vile Darkness, I've noticed a number of people saying that they'd avoid something like this guide because of the immaturity that is associated with it. They're more interested, they say, on a guide that focuses on the more serious and/or spiritual sides of sex in a gaming world.
> *




I read it too, and I though, as if I care, such thoughts about immature themes sit as tightly in people's heads as many people's ideas of a) high-level/high-magic/high-stats game being 'munchkin' (I probly misspelled that), b) rightness of their idea of game-balance or c) arguments over D&D morality and 'how paladin is played RIGHT'.

Besides, some people always follow opinions of flock, especially, if they haven't yet formed their own. This is how some computer game for example gets nominated for 'best/worst' game of all time. It is wonderous how many people 'vote' their 'opinions' based on opinions they've heard/read.

Many people don't play D&D, because it is 'immature' and 'silly', it has level and hit points. Hit points being especially silly etc... 

Immaturity comes from people's heads, it has nothing to do with people actually reading our guide and then stating their opinions. Some have read it or earlier version, but as many probably pass it because 'whole theme is immature to exist in rpg'. Silliness and immaturity feel two different opinions to me.

And, many just don't like idea of 'rolling for orgasm', even if they do use sexual themes in their games.

More serious and spiritual side? Ah, true music for coming in flame war.  Trying to go for too serious would be mistake at least, spirituality just brought to my mind alignment arguments. 

Problem is, we have limited number of people who wrote/ are writing this guide, it is voluntary, it is not paid job, and we are limited by those ideas we have. I've not once heard anyone claiming to be some sort of expert on these matters. So, if people want real life stuff, they are better off reading quite other books and they probably are too.

I wonder, what those people mean by that, anyway. More serious and spiritual side? That could mean many things.

Isewa, if you want add such aspects to this guide, feel free and write or persuade someone to. Any ideas? What to add, what kind of things would be useful for those mildly sexually themed games? Opinions?

I think this is not about only transferring some sfuff to guide part 2, something might need to be added too.

I am best at writing monsters/items/spells/weirdness/stories as long as someone corrects my English.

In games I've played/been dm, sexual themes are sometimes non-existant. Sometimes existed as realistic and somewhat grim (sad fates of lower city prostitutes and such) as addition to make world feel more 'realistic'. At other times it has been part of PC past time activities (fun), sometimes sex is used to gain something (seductions). And of course many demonologists and evil wizards, and different critters who have their own special 'needs' (whatever pc getting to to be bad guy's/gal's love intrest, or evil wizard practising perverse rituals to gain power, or emphatic vampirism, villagers possessed by weird spirits, that cause them to start mad mating orgy... but for what reason.. etc).

How are promised stories coming up, btw? 

I am truly tired when I write these answers...


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## tanilen (Apr 25, 2002)

when I first started working on my own update to the classic netbook with some guys on the Gray Archive forum, just after 3E came out, it was pretty clear we had to keep a sense of humor about us. Here we were, writing game mechinics for sex and even rape and weird spells and magic items, we tried to keep it a little light just so people would not think we were total demented perverted game geeks (partial- yes, total, no).

Taking out the light hearted stuff from the main book like the periodicals and anecdotes would be a big mistake, imo. And lumping everything into a second "hentai" book is gonna seriously lessen that book as well. The hard core book will become just a collection of cast off items.

Lets be honest with ourselves here, folks. We are writing a netbook that gives game rules for sex in D&D. Taking the light hearted stuff out of the main book so it can be a serious exploration of sexuality is what will make the CNBUCK a joke, not the reverse.

But thats just my 2 cents. I am more than willing to support what ever decision the community as a whole comes up with.


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## kolvar (Apr 25, 2002)

Somhow, I could not have put it in words, I feel the same as you, Tanilen. 
But if we actually split it, we should keep the silly stuff apart from the hentai stuff. Hentai might be silly to some, but it is rather dark with it's humilations, dominations and monstrous rapes. 
That would mean, three guides. 
(And I still believe, that the humorous side is still necessary).
Have you voted Tanilen? Maybe you should state your comment there again.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 25, 2002)

I agree with you tanilen. Some 'silly/humorous' stuff belongs to hentai section. Recondite, Tentacle Master or Prismatic Dildos/Raping Swords and stuff like that for example. I don't consider this league of "cast-off items". Opinions?

Those just sound more hentai. Kicking all humor and silliness into hentai book is not good idea IMO, which I tried to point out (and failed misarable).

Two books should be enough. Perhaps we should merk more redically silly parts of guide with smilies or something. Helps you pass through those, when you want searching 'more serious' (yeh, serious indeed  ) stuff and helps you find those particulary silly part too, when they are needed.

Would you like it done this way?


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## kolvar (Apr 25, 2002)

@Zelda: think of the layout from Sorn, think of smilies. Now try to fit that together.
I think, smilies are (apart from any other merit or flaw) something to avoid in this layout.


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## Sorn (Apr 25, 2002)

Ok... getting the change out of my wallet. Ahh... $0.02....

Moving everything that is remotely funny into the hentai book: Not a good idea. People who want hentai rules will be put off by the silly stuff, and people looking for humorous things to spice up their campaigns will be annoyed by the hentai rules. 

Things that obviously fit into the Hentai category (raping swords, tentacle master, etc): Sure move them over. 

Smilies: Great idea... Not necessarily this one:    ,but I think I can find some dingbat that conveys humor. One of those theater-masks maybe. Or we just put the funny stuff into side-bars and shaded boxes.


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 25, 2002)

Hrm. It was just a suggestion, but I'll leave this closing argument.

Who are we doing the guide for, and why are we doing it?

Are we doing it just for ourselves, without any concern to what people actually want out of the guide? Are we not trying to make a "serious" netbook that people can actually use without batting an eyelash? 

Because if that's not our goal - making a book full of serious crunchy bits that can be used in game - then why bother worrying about how feasible the rules are and how well-balanced the items within are? Why even worry about it, if all we care about is doing as close a translation of the original BoUCK as possible. Let's face it, while the original was a good read worth a few chuckles, the rules within weren't so good. I definitely wouldn't have used the vast majority in the game.

However, if we're actually making a book for people to use in normal games -- ones without a lot of overt slapstick humor -- then we should focus on doing just that. We should focus on getting the crunchy bits as smooth and polished as possible, and removing elements that might make people disregard the book as juvenile humor.

What I'd like to see is the d20 BoUCK to be a sort of "Kama Sutra" for gaming - a serious discussion of sex, sexual techniques, sexual persuasions, sexual circumstances, and the consequences of sex. The Kama Sutra isn't full of information on inflatable dolls and prismatic dildos and such, but it's still a classic guide on sex, and is revered as such and consulted often.

Meanwhile, the humorous aspects can be moved to a more "Xxxenophile"-type add-on, where the people who _want_ the goofy humorous spells and items can go. I'm not saying that they don't have their use, but they don't honestly belong in a serious guidebook. That's why they have an add-on of their own.

And as far as "hentai" goes, I consider hentai to be over-the-top sexuality that just borders on silly, not necessarily dark. Hentai can be dark, but it can also be very light-hearted and silly, too - check out _Rei-Rei_ or _F3_ some time to get an example. 

Anyway, that's my take on it. Agree or disagree as you wish.

-----

And on a _completely_ unrelated note, I won't be able to make playtesting Friday night - something popped up early Saturday morning that can't miss; can we reschedule for sometime next week? That will give me more time to revise the rules, then.


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## 2late (Apr 25, 2002)

What about on focussing on a "complete" guide first and once this is completed, making a light version without the humorous parts? 

("Light" as in "Cocke Light" not as opposite to "Dark")


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 26, 2002)

Sorn said:
			
		

> *Smilies: Great idea... Not necessarily this one:    ,but I think I can find some dingbat that conveys humor. One of those theater-masks maybe. Or we just put the funny stuff into side-bars and shaded boxes. *




That's what I meant. Not everyone wants to see them gone. Why should 'over the top' sillyness bother the reader so much if it was marked humorous? And some of that stuff Isewa mentions may be silly as read, but doesn't have to be if it actually used in some game.

We could also put more extreme silly stuff into it's own chapter, if it doesn't fit so well with rest of our hentai-themes. If it does, we just move it there.

Of course there is much humorous hentai out there. Do we want to think hentai in terms of 'hardcore'/'nasty stuff' only?
Maybe we could give humorous stuff it's own chapter in hentai book?

I like the idea of not mixing different 'themes' too much. Like there is a difference between 'Spiderman', 'Toxic Avenger' ,
'Blade' movies, all from 'Superhero' genre, but from different sides of it. (I wish better examples had come in my mind, but those will have to do).

Our genre is 'sex', and since we are reworking the guide anyway, we could untangle this genre mix-up at same effort, like Isewa seems to be suggesting. Though some things are silly in 'name only' (D&D has silly enough name-terminology here and there). Those should IMO not be moved into different book/chapter/marked humorous just because of it.


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## kolvar (Apr 26, 2002)

How about a silly appendix? That way everybody got it out of the way and still can read it without consulting another guide. 

@Isawa: sure, hentai is not allways dark, but have you read Tenilens rules?

About the polling. A majority would like to see the silly rules gone. And: we should have done this earlier. Some people are giving ideas, they did not give before.


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## kolvar (Apr 26, 2002)

Another question: A lot of new ideas came up during the last round of wish-making. Do we want to integrate more into the version 1.0 or should we stay with what we got and do a guide II?

I would prefer the second, because I am very eager to see the guide on my desk and fear, that if we do not make a cut soon, we will never do one.


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## Gez (Apr 26, 2002)

To give my two eurocents to the debate

- I'm absolutely not interested in hentai, so I would not download it even for the funny bits. I would even find it distasteful to associate both hentai and funny silliness, because I don't think a genre that is basically about young girls being raped by cthulluh-esque ETs should be associated with fun.
- Things like magical vibrators and dolly golems are not only silly, they are also realist. Real people are often silly when it comes to sex. Look at cybersex. Or at these people who waste their money on porno sites to download lagging, pixellated, time-stamp sized movies. If you want a guide to sex, you need to acknowledge that is has silly aspects inside.

Sure, some of the sillyness (pimp class, random periodicals, for example) could be put in a supplement. But that's silliness pertaining to the rules, or the world (you don't need a pimp class to have pimps, and porno periodicals would not fit in all settings -- hey, I tried the javascript version and got a magazine titled "something harpy balls").


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## Isawa Sideshow (Apr 26, 2002)

Again, I reiterate - hentai is not solely about tentacle sex. In Japanese, "hentai" means "pervert" (or "abnormal"). It's used to refer to any entertainment with hardcore elements, be it anime, manga, computer games, live-action movies, etc.

That said, there's a reason why tentacles are a common theme in hentai - in Japan, it's illegal to depict genitalia - all thanks to General MacArthur and the laws he brought to Japan after WWII. To get around that, Japanese animators used large beasts with many tentacles instead of penises. It fit in with the classic Japanese oni, and also allowed them to show phalluses without showing genitals. A lot of hentai that's been brought over to the United States uses tentacles, because US markets have the same problem - show genitals, and you're X-rated. Show monsters with tentacles, and you're a hard R rating, and you can be sold in Best Buy and Suncoast.

Not all hentai involves tentacles, though. I've mentioned _F3_, which is about a girl who can't have orgasms. Though some odd inventions are brought into play, no tentacle rape takes place. The _Cool Devices_ series, a set of 10 animated shorts by different artists, are totally uncensored (which suggests that they were done "underground" in Japan) and mostly focus on taboo subjects such as S&M, domination/submission, incest, and such. On the manga front, there's a huge range of adult "doujinshi", which is fan-created manga based on popular video games and anime series. Most of this is just depictions of straight-up male/female (or female/female, or male/male) sex, without any monstrous elements involved. Finally, for computer games, there's a wide variety of hentai games. Most are "dating" games, where the protagonist is a young single man who must interact with various women in the hopes of bedding them and living happily ever after.

So you see, hentai is neither dark nor completely tentacle-filled. In fact, a lot of hentai would fit fine into the "serious" guide without crossing the line of "too humorous" or "too Cthulhu-esque". Personally, if we needed to divide the guides, I'd say there's a "serious" guide and an "outrageous" guide for over-the-top items such as prismatic dildos (my favorite example - it just rolls off the tongue) and tentacle monsters.


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## Kichwas (Apr 26, 2002)

Isawa Sideshow said:
			
		

> [BWhat I'd like to see is the d20 BoUCK to be a sort of "Kama Sutra" for gaming - a serious discussion of sex, sexual techniques, sexual persuasions, sexual circumstances, and the consequences of sex. The Kama Sutra isn't full of information on inflatable dolls and prismatic dildos and such, but it's still a classic guide on sex, and is revered as such and consulted often.[/b]



This is where I stand also.

It's the sillyness and 'impossibly long charts and tables for things that aren't needed' that put me off of older versions of the guide.



> Meanwhile, the humorous aspects can be moved to a more "Xxxenophile"-type add-on, where the people who _want_ the goofy humorous spells and items can go. I'm not saying that they don't have their use, but they don't honestly belong in a serious guidebook. That's why they have an add-on of their own.



Agreed. Maybe putting it in with the Hentai isn't right, but putting it in with the serious is even less so.

Perhaps the Hentai and Comedy can both be appendexes of the main book?


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## Sorn (Apr 26, 2002)

*News Flash first* According to Monte Cook, the upcoming Book of Vile Darkness will not have any rules for Prositution after all, unless WotC put them in after he turned over the manuscript. 

*Silly stuff:* I guess the trend is going towards leaving out the sillier stuff. Personally, I would have been fine with the smilie/shading indicator, but in any case I'd like to see at least some of the stuff survive, possibly in it's own "The Funny Side of Sex" Web Enhancement. Appendix or own chapter won't work too well, since that would scatter spells and items all over the book. The easier things are organized, the better. I personally wouldn't want to flip through the entire spell section only to not find what I was looking for, and then having to check the Silly section and the Perverted section to see if it's there. 

I'd suggest a few people go over the current material and check for silly stuff. If it is only silly in name, put it on a list, post it here and we can all come up with alternate names for it.

The periodicals which seem to be disliked by quite a few people would make an excellent 2 page web enhancement. Since it does not pertain to any rules, we don't even need the OGL page.    

*Hentai*: Yes, Hentai means pervert in Japanese. However, the mainstream definition for hentai is "tentacle madness". We can have long discussion on what's the correct one, but that doesn't lead anywhere. I saw one discussion about Pulp settings that went completely out of hand. Anyway, anything remotely tentacle-like, move it over to the Hentai book. Since we don't know what people consider perverted, let's leave anything non-tentacle in the main book..


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## Sorn (Apr 26, 2002)

Missed Kolvar's question re: Guide 1 .

I for one am itching to do the layout and get a copy printed out. We've been hanging in some sort of Limbo for a little while now, so I think we should set a deadline for any new material and a proposed date as to when we'll be done.

I'll be delving into the guide over the weekend and compile my own silly/needs-to-be-cut-list. I'd suggest everyone does that, we compare lists and go from there. Once we know what is not going to be in the main guide, we can check and see which chapters need filling. Once a chapter is deemed okay, it goes out to the editor, who in turn passes it on to me for layout. If Averil is too busy, I'll gladly do both. And of course once we have all chapters, we are done and can finally print out a copy.


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## Kichwas (Apr 27, 2002)

I think if we set the silly and hentai aside in some manner we can get by with keeping it.

I would suggest one of three methods:

1. Put them in two appendixes (sp?)

2. Put them as sidebars for relevant topics (so the sidebar on anatomy or something might have a chart for random and overdone physical characteristics, or whatever... a section on 'sex toys' might have a sidebar for illitad blow up dolls, but it would not be in the main text.).

3. Put it in 'shaded paragraphs'. Shaded with a background like a smile or a tenticle or something we all graphically agree on and explain the purpose of in the introduction.


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## tanilen (Apr 27, 2002)

Ok, perhaps one thing we need to do is change the name of the Hentai supplement to something else. Many of the inspirations for the "hentai" guide actually had little to do with translating Japanese animation cartoons into D&D (other than, of course, my Sex Ninja rules).

I run a website that features erotic fantasy stories, some are hard core and raunchy, some are just adult. Myself and a few of the other authors wanted to write some rules that allow us to translate our stories into D&D, so if we wanted to run campaigns based on the sexually intense stories, we could.

Since most of these stories are fairly hard core, naturally it follows are rules are. Hence the rules for non consensual sex. Calling these rules Hentai, while appropriate in the sense they are very perverted, shouldn't be also connoting all the silliness associated with japanimation.

What's all this apropos of? I'm no longer sure (its late and I am tired), but I guess I just wanted to be clear on what I expect the supplement to be/contain, since my name seems associated with it more than with the main book. I have optional rules for non consensual sex, domination, addiction, sex ninjas, and (yes) tentacles.  While my original plan was to have all this, and the humor included in one basic book, if we are going to do two books, I don't really think the silly stuff would mesh too well with the rest of the supplement.


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 28, 2002)

*Riot Gear returneth*

From the response on the "Keep or dump the silly stuff," I recommend we pare down the guide.  Keep most of what we've got, but throw out all the crap.  All the stuff we copied verbatim from the old guide?  It's crap.  Let's slash & burn it.  Here's what I recommend we put in the new guide:

*Beguiler, Controller, Chaste Virgin, Dominator, Houri, Seductress, and Tantric Master PrC.  All of these need review and work on the boards for balance, even if they ARE icky.  The remainder should be cleaned up and released later.  Especially the Tentacle Master, which is great.*

*New skills/feats that give bonuses to interact with those attracted to your gender, bonuses to enchantment spells, etc.*

*Prostitution tables/costs, 'cause players are always doin' this and the DM's want to make you pay.*

*Slave tables and costs were mentioned, but I think we should leave that to the Book of Vile Darkness, where the professionals are handling it.*

*We put way too damn much work in to the rules for getting it on to get rid of them, even if they are silly.  Let's clean them up and pare them down a bit if we have to, though.*

*Take all the spells from the 1st guide and burn them to the ground.  Erase everything but their names and work from there - Because some of them are total crap, some of them are awful ideas badly presented, some of them are good ideas poorly presented, and we can remake the ones that are good all around ourselves.*

*Rules for crazy sexual magic and what not.  I've actually worked out a way to simulate this.  Aside from simply using Circle Magic from Forgotten Realms, I mean.  My way is a little different, once I complete my Eromancer prestige class you'll see what I mean.*

*Rules on what happens if you become pregnant or impregnate someone while polymorphed outside your own race.  Because players are nasty.*

*"Hot" monsters like the succubus, erinyes, nymph and dryad.  Because it's a good way to die.  Also, add male equivalents for the ladies.  And the Recondite were my girlfriends idea, so they stay.*

*Venereal disease info for real world diseases and a few new fantasy ones.  Because players should cough and bleed and die and get lesions in unmentionable places.  Because we can.  Because it gives us an interesting chance to create a new kind of disease, a long term illness, which isn't very well simulated in D&D at the moment.*

*Different courtship and marriage customs from a variety of cultures and time periods (preferably real historical ones) was SUGGESTED, but I think it might be a bit out of the scope of the guide...  Nonetheless, it would probably be worth doing.*

*We should pare down the item list a great deal.  Some of them are great and clever, and others are just stupid.  Strap on of astounding?  Cute.  But no one would ever make it.*

I'm Riot Gear, so you know.  Next up, my idea for the Eromancer.


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 28, 2002)

Eromancer

_"Love and pleasure," began Alrue, "Have a power all their own.  They can fuel happiness.  They can create life.  To some - like me - they are magic.  Learn to see the flow of love.  Learn to breathe it, and to live it.  Make it yours.  Love is all you need."_

-   The eromancer is a mage who has tasted the flow of love and pleasure across the fabric of reality.  A master of ritualistic sex magic, he can bestow great boons and heal horrible wounds with an intimate touch, creating magic through the sheer power of his erotic spirit.  Frequently acting at odds with established authority, they're also blessed with skill for the roguish arts of running away, hiding, and looking good doing it.  Although most eromancers were originally bards, who seem to have a natural affinity for the power of passion, wizards, sorcerors, clerics of the gods of pleasure, or powerful druids of certain primal sects also take this path occasionally.
-   As PC's, eromancers usually serve to "buff" other party members before engaging in significant encounters using their sexual ritual magic, as well as occasionally serving as the charismatic "face" of the party.  As NPC's, eromancers vary significantly depending on their previous class.
-   Bardic eromancers are usually wanderers leaving a trail of broken hearts and jealous lovers as they go.  Clerical eromancers are often found working secretly in nations under the control of conservative mores, shaking things up, often at great personal risk to themselves.  Druidical eromancers, occasionally called "the primal," often serve as shamans for primitive cultures.  Wizardly eromancers are often shy, bookish types looking to find something that they missed in their youth, while sorcerous eromancers often have always powered their spells with sheer erotic energy, attaining the peak of their sorcerous powers early in their teens.

-   *Prequisites:*
-   *Alignment:* Any Chaotic
-   *Spellcasting:* Ability to cast at least three 2nd level spells, one of which must be Detect Thoughts, and the ability to cast Detect Magic.
-   *Sexual Prowess:* 8 ranks.
-   *Spellcraft:* 8 ranks.
-   *Feats:* Sexual Ritual Magic, Aroused Casting
-   *Special:* Must have engaged in sexual activity with a sentient partner while under the effect of a Detect Magic spell, or have observed two sentient partners engaged in sexual activity using a Detect Magic spell.

-   *Hit Die:* d6
-   *Saving Throws:* As Bard
-   *Base Attack Bonus:* As Bard
-   *Skill Points:* 4 + Int modifier
-   *Class Skills:* Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Move Silently, Perform, Sexual Prowess, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Tumble

-   *Special Abilties By Level*
-   1st: Eros Focus
-   2nd: Master of Eromancy 1
-   3rd: Heartwatch
-   4th: Master of Eromancy 2
-   5th: Enduring Love
-   6th: Master of Eromancy 3
-   7th: Perfect Love
-   8th: Master of Eromancy 4
-   9th: Nexus Of Passion
-   10th: Master of Eromancy 5

-   *Spells Per Day*
-   1st: +1 level of Bard
-   2nd: +1 level of Bard
-   3rd: -
-   4th: +1 level of Bard
-   5th: +1 level of Bard
-   6th: -
-   7th: +1 level of Bard
-   8th: +1 level of Bard
-   9th: -
-   10th: +1 level of Bard

*Spells Per Day:* Eromancers train in a form of magic very similar to that of Bards as they go up in level.  On every level that isn't divisible by three, they are considered to gain one level of Bard for the purpose of learning new spells and spells per day only.

Eros Focus: The Difficulty Class for all saving throws for spells with the Erotic descriptor cast by you increases by +2.  This doesn't stack with Spell Focus, or any other "Focus" feat.

Master of Eromancy: Because of your burning passion, you count as more than one participant for the purpose of Sexual Ritual Magic.  Specifically, you count as your Master of Eromancy level +1.  For example, a 4th level Eromancer counts as 3 participants for the purpose of Sexual Ritual Magic.

Enduring Love: You can apply the Extend Spell feat to Sexual Ritual spells that you cast even if you don't have that feat, although it increases the spell slot required normally.  If you have the Extend Spell feat, you can apply it to your Sexual Ritual spells without increasing the level of the spell slot the spell requires.

Perfect Love: You can apply the Maximize Spell feat to Sexual Ritual spells that you cast even if you don't have that feat, although it increases the spell slot required normally.  If you have the Maximize Spell feat, you can apply it to your Sexual Ritual spells without increasing the level of the spell slot the spell requires.

Nexus of Passion: The fire of your sexuality increasing to a glorious flame that inspires others to incredible new heights of love and desire.  All participants in a Sexual Ritual spell that you cast are considered to have Master of Eromancy 1.

*Complete.*


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 28, 2002)

*new feat*

*SEXUAL RITUAL MAGIC** [Metamagic]*
You can cast a spell as a sexual ritual, allowing you to cast a spell without losing it for the day.
*Prerequisites:* Aroused Casting
*Benefit:* You can cast a spell without expending it from your memorized spells (or spell slots per day in the case of spontaneous casters like the bard or sorceror) but you face some significant restrictions.
The spell can only be a beneficial spell, such as a healing spell or a spell that gives an enhancement bonus - It cannot cause damage, inflict negative levels, or otherwise cause harm.  The DM's discretion may be necessary.
Second, the spells casting time is extended by one full hour, during which the sexual ritual orgy or lovemaking must take place.  All participants much take part (I.E., make love, bang, screw, yiff, or whatever euphemism you prefer) from the beginning to the end of the hour, or they don't count for purposes of the number of participants in the ritual.
Third, your maximum caster level is limited to the number of participants in the ritual.  For example, if you're casting a 2nd level Bard spell, which requires you to have a Caster Level 4, you'd need to have at least four participants in the ritual.  This can also limit number of targets, variable healing or duration, and other such things.  All participants must be completely willing to take part in the ritual in order to count, although magical coercion can be used.
A Sexual Ritual Spell takes up the same spell slot as the base spell, modified by any other metamagic feats.
*Previous:* This option for spellcasting is not available.

*EXAMPLE:* Ryss, a cleric of Sharess, is busy at work healing the many wounded Dragon Knights under her care.  Spending an hour in a sexual ritual with each one, she can cast a Cure Light Wounds prepared as a sexual ritual spell with a caster level of two, healing 1d8+2 points of damage.  If she had the healing domain, she would heal 1d8+3.  She must spend the entire hour in uninterrupted activity in order to successfully cast the spell.  Once the hour is up, the spell is cast but is retained in memory.
Elsewhere, Kris is engaged in passionate activity with, oh, let's say Hennet, Mialee, and Jozan.  Kris is a Brd5/Eromancer2, and because of this, counts as two participants for Sexual Ritual magic.  There are three others besides him, so his maximum caster level is 5 for this spell - Which happens to be an Endurance spell.  It'll last 5 hours...  he has a long night ahead of him.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 28, 2002)

Great . Our creative power Riot Gear is back. 

I like 'Eromancer'

I always thought Recondite was very cool and nasty creature. I think anyone who things they are too silly, has just severe allergy to 'anything-tentacled'-thing. 
Very scary and nasty monster IMO.

What comes to magic items, different sex toys are IMO something, spellcasters would likely be creating. They would have wanting market, but magic is very expensive, so magic sex toys would probably be made rich people's normal/unusual needs in mind. Like with with any magic items.

If you think RL earth history, sex and all kind of toys accociated with it have been around since dawn of civization.

Still, I don't think people in fantasy world would emulate some stuff existing in our period. We sure would get rid of much crab, if we had access to magic/psionics. At least if we had money to spare. Some things in old guide are just too 'plastic'/too 200th century emulations in material/function.

Many spells from old guide are needless, one example that first come to my mind is that 'Cure spell for *some sexual disease*, now what's the point, when we already have 'cure disease' in phb.


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 28, 2002)

Hey, thanks Zelda!  You make me feel all fuzzy inside. ^_^  I've finished the new feat and the Eromancer.  I think this should fit what we're looking for - It provides sexual ritual magic with a niche all of its own, something that nothing else does.


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## Gldm (Apr 29, 2002)

*Silliness and such.*

I always thought the main point of the guide WAS to be silly and funny and something to use in non-serious parts of a game. Maybe the serious sections are the ones that need a shaded background or indicator of some sort or their own appendix. I mean who really is going to want to keep this handy to look up prostitute costs or a table of sex restriction laws based on city population and culture, or average frequency of mating for humanoids every game?

If I'm running a serious game and the PCs have enough time to worry about this to the point of where I'm stumped and can't say "Yes you find a prostitute for 5sp." and move on to plot development, then either I'm A: out of material or B: not moving the game along, or C: not moving the game the way the PCs want to go, and they're trying to tell me by doing random crap like picking up prostitutes or raping horses and casting modify memory to get away with it.

BTW, Eromancer kicks ass, and have you read the 3rd party d20 book Legions of Hell? There's some interesting related stuff in there. =)


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 29, 2002)

Gldm: Thank you!  And no, I haven't read Legions of Hell.  I don't get to game often enough for it to be worth it.  You really like it?  Cool.


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## Gldm (Apr 29, 2002)

*Legions of Hell*

My friend picked up LoH at DunDraCon, I bought Arms & Armor instead. I've seen some stuff from LoH though, I'll try and borrow it and if it's under open gaming license I'll retype one or two of the nifty ones for you.

A couple things I remember from it:

Succubi with damage reduction 5/leather (so you can whip them).

The king of hell looks like Joe Camel (from cigarette ads) and has weird powers like Cause Spontaneous Orgasm as a ranged touch attack.


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## kolvar (Apr 29, 2002)

Everyone seems eager to drop everything we got, and do it all again. 
Well, I guess we will never be done. 
Could we agree on a deadline? I would suggest the 29th of June.  Everything that is in at that moment stays in, everything that is in work goes to a web-enhancement or to guide 2.
Two month is a bit time, but if we do not start to work to some deadline, we will allways find something else we could put into the guide and tweak at the rules again.

btw. the orgy-magic-rules were inspired by the ritual rules from Relics & Rituals. That is why there is no feat for them.


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## Sorn (Apr 29, 2002)

@Kolvar: June 29th sounds good. That should give us enough time to get things straightened out.

Personally, I think Anabstercorian/Riot Gear is on the right track. I went through the guide over the weekend, and my list of stuff to keep/revise is virtually identical to his.  
The spell list needs some serious work as it is right now. A lot of the spells are downright useless or are already covered by spells in the PHB (e.g. Slap/Goose/Tweak cantrips are easily handled by Prestidigitation or Mage Hand). 

Most of the game rules are new anyway, so they just need a little simplification and we are good to go.  

Let's get out the work gloves and get going on finishing this puppy up!


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## kolvar (Apr 29, 2002)

reread the new feat. Somehow there should be a possibility for all those demon-worshipping witches to do some real awfull things through sex-magic to others than personal/ touch and healing. 
Maybe a second feat with this one as prerequ?


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## kolvar (Apr 29, 2002)

Scanned through the Spell-List in the guied and what follows is my list of spells, I would drop immediatly. Some others, I would realy have to think about. Some spelle, others may see as goners I may find to funny/ useful/ interesting:

Annihilator's Penis of Power
Bitch Slap
Cause Nausea
Chains of Lust
Charm Man I-IX
Coyanascotsy's Erotic Permanency 
Davenet's Seduction?
Detect Venereal Disease? (a specialized Version and therefor maybe usefull)
Flash
Heartbraker
Ilruna's Impotence
Indifference
Layla’s Beautification
Layla’s Good Morning
Layla’s Morning After
Layla’s Uglification
Mount
Our Tiny Brothel
Pornographic Glamer
Prismatic Dildo? (should go to the "Hentai"-Guide?)
Seduction I-VI
Sexual Attraction
Sexual Disgust
Skank
Slap
Speedy Gestation-Variation 
Summon Cissaldan
Touch of Talopea? (to powerful in Combat, I think)
Tweak/ Goose


PSIONICS
Willy’s Partial Expansion


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 29, 2002)

Looks good, Kolvar!  I'll rewrite the Sexual Ritual Magic feat later today to make it easier to read.


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## Sorn (Apr 29, 2002)

kolvar: I have virtually the same list of spells.  Since the same spells show up in different people's lists, I'd say let's give them the axe. We have a copy of them in the earlier versions of the guide, so it's not like we are loosing the data should we decide to use them somewhere.

Here's my preliminary list:
Annihilator's Penis of Power
Bitch Slap
Charm Man
Conjure Succubus/ Incubus: use summon monster instead
Flash
Freudian Thoughts
Ilruna's Impotence
Indifference
Kal'Bruneyeah's Chastity Belt
Layla?s Good Morning
Layla?s Morning After
Layla?s Seductive Impersonation
Layla?s Seductive Shapechange
Layla?s Uglification
Luwain?s Everlasting Hard-On
Masturbation
Power Word, Castrate
Prismatic Dildo
Resist Self
Rut
Sacremon?s Emperor?s New Clothes
Sex Change
Slap
Strip
Tweak/ Goose
Wet Dream


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 29, 2002)

Just lists? Here is longer explanation.

Many spells are in need of rule clarification. I went a bit overboard with explanations my spells included (considering especially the fact, that my english is lacking, what also causes me to use too many words to say things that could be said simplier).

Few spells of mine in guide are actually half-finished.' Healing of Innocen't and ' Miracle of Fertility' come to mind.

Also, especially with my spells, there is constant mistake of short range spells range being 25 feet+ 5 feet/level, not +5/every second level, as it goes in PHB. This was misreading at my part long time ago. Also, my spells have sometimes name referance to 'sorcerer'. This comes form fact, that in my world some spells are only available to sorcerers of certain Path. .Linked Shapechange p.93 is a good example of this weidness. That in mind, they should be shared with divane magic users, I think.

My spells are not worse examples of this, some standardization might be in order. Durations, ranges, saves, all that.

Many old spells suffer from 'Second edition aka AD&D system backflashs. Like -4 or whatever to save, without a mention of  'what save'? Will, fort, ref?

Material component suffer now and then from same silliness, than components in phb (especially the earlier editions). I hate stupid
material components, but it's my personal bias only. I think components should make sense, that's all.

With some pleasure spells, right 'condition' referances from DMG might be in order, like 'as if shaken'. Might be usefull to be able to
compare pleasurable action-limiting condition to pain/fear action-limiting condition.

Some mentions of domains might be missing/where there shoudn't be one. Though I didn't check this one carefully. If someone did, has this been corrected?

Change Sexual Preference spells uses 2nd edition charm person spell tables. Good or bad, *shrug*

Reversed version of spell is with some spells  mentioned in earlier edition style or referance is to converse/reverse version, but text
doesn't state which spell is one for that. Like with Homophobia/Heterophobia

Some spells don't do much system-wise, but they have more profaund role-play effects. Spells causing certain form of insanity fall into this category.

Annihilator's Penis of Power 	- Better suited to anime genre but -> I suggest we keep this, at least in some book

Bitch Slap 	- Stupid and offensive spell idea (latter more so, because there is no similar evil to men here)

Cause Nausea 	- We have brain lock in psi book, we have hold person, this does same, but as 1st level spell... be gone 

Chains of Lust 	- Alternative method to planar binding maybe or ritual magic. I'd edit out some mmh... comments at least

Charm Man I-IX 	- There was once a dragon magazine with Witch npc character class. Pointless.

Coyanascotsy's Erotic Permanency     - 3rd level spell, oh, please. Breaks every rule there is.

Davenet's Seduction?	- Intresting, but needs rule tweaking and we do have many charms already 

Detect Venereal Disease? (a specialized Version and therefor maybe usefull) - Very specific purpose, so why not, good minor magic for bordels. But int check, how hard int check?

Flash 		- Yep, predestication effect. 

Heartbraker 	- Lame death magic, doesn't work in rule sense, and I'd use spell name for some other effect anyway. Good name, rest isn't

Ilruna's Impotence 		- Beginning idea is of some intrest. bit rules-wise it gets weird.  I'd rather create curse, which causes one to be unable to experience sexual pleasure with only certain named createre. Actually have written such curse.

Indifference 		- Similar spell exist, right? It is also a bit confusing. Indifference? It also should be highter level.

Layla’s Beautification 	- too 2nd edition. I actually have written nasty, and probably overpowered spell of this one.

Layla’s Good Morning 	- I like this spell, sort of, it should be written to make more sense, however, there is hangover-removing spell in Relics & RItuals.

Layla’s Morning After 	-' Forget' spell, effectually.

Layla’s Uglification 	- Same problem as with Beautification.
Mount 		- Liked the idea, but I call my spell  'Illusionary Lover', and it is different. This one doesn't work in rule sense. 

Our Tiny Brothel 	- I'd rather do little tweaking to regular spells, that create magical dwellings. Silly name.

Pornographic Glamer 	- Workable combo-spell IMO. Many designers have made combo-effect spells, it is kind of cooler and useful, than casting two different spells. 

Prismatic Dildo? (should go to the "Hentai"-Guide?) - Funny, nasty, rule-tweaking needed. Hentai, yep.

Seduction I-VI 	- Charm with a twist. I like it, but I'd combo it to be same spell, HD affected depending on caster level.

Sexual Attraction 		- Limited 'stat-rising' spell (for limited situations), useful for low-level casters, I'd keep this. Change duration to 1 hour/levl.

Sexual Disgust 		- Limited 'stat-lowering'' spell, useful for low-level casters, I'd keep this. Change duration to 1 hour/levl.

Skank 		- Well, as effect why not. But name change needed, and effect itself might fit into category of 3rd level bestow curse spell. If you look at bestow curse effects carefully, you realize how devastating it can be.*

Slap 		- Predestication- type effect.

Speedy Gestation-Variation 	- Yep, too complicated and we already have one. Besides, wasn't it ME writing that one. If so, let it be GONE.

Summon Cissaldan 		- I've read the short story, and this spell totally fails to translate idea to actual useful spell. I've always hated it. Let it be GONE.

Touch of Talopea? (to powerful in Combat, I think) - Perhaps it should be 3rd level spell. It really is no worse than wizard casting lighting bolt at enemy mage. Then again, is it really much more powerful, than hold person?

Tweak/ Goose  		- Your nasty use of existing spells. Goes to predestigation category. 


PSIONICS 

Willy’s Partial Expansion		- Well, don't know. Fantastic Four superheroes had Mr Fantastic and his rubbery body, but making body part's bigger is mostly stuff of jokes. Mostly, there is whole genre of porn deserved for this enlargening stuff.


Rest Mentiond my Isewa.

Spells 
------ 
Embarrassing Fetish	- Idea nice, rule tweaking. Needed, much. Might also work well as variation effect of some existing spell/psionic power. 

Freudian Thoughts		- Name change desperately needed. Too modern fantasy-Earth. Otherwise idea of spell, that curses person to think sex/food/treasure/cleaniness all the time is a very good idea. I suggest we create more general obsession spell of this.

Heterophobia/Homophobia 		- stupid component and all, but ideas are good. Role-play neastiness elements would work better with longer spell duration. Rule tweakin needed.

Luwain's Everlasting Hard-On (perhaps just a name change)  - What's wrong with name? Rule Tweaking needed.

Masturbation	- Evil spell, not silly at all. Too low level for effect, however.

PMS 		- Nah, it's actually very logical spell (name change needed, too 20th century). Think that female spellcaster, who wanted to teach less-than-understanding men (perhaps her huspand), about certain pain, woman has to endure.

Power Word, Castrate  	- Evil and usable spell, but it should have rules for damage (if any), or some other mention of psysical/psychological effect. What as spell to use on enemy army, "that takes care of those soldiers who'd otherwise  trying to rape our people".

Resist Self 	- I wrote this spell. Yes, silly name (hah, but I like it), purposifully. Remove somatic component effect, it was kinda joke anyway. Rule tweaking needed.. did. It is actually very useful spell... to certain character of mine at least.

Strip 		- Bad rules. Way too powerful. There should be save.

Items 
---- 
Castration weapons     - Again, lacking actual rule what additional effect (damage etc) castaration makes, if any. Not actually silly as such... but hard to imagine how it works.

Raping weapons 		- Whaaaat? I can imagine dancing/raping weapon in hentai-suppliment, but this kind of raping weapon is just.... what? Change the whole effect when doing raping weapons, this won't work.

Dagger of Circumcision (debatable) 	- Name is misleading. Effect as now, debatable yes.

Rod of Pillows 		- I think this is sort of nice. But for effect +2 to sleep spell, there would have to be some other spell to this item's creation besides 'major creation'.

Rod of Vibration 		- Somewhat fantasy earth, but not too much so, really. Maybe little tweaking in effects needed.

Tentacular Staffs 		- Cool. Take them  to 'hentai suppliment' however. 

Phallic Wands 		- Hehheh, neat idea, effects might be a bit off.

Sheet of Useful Toys 	- Neat idea, but a bit too.. well stupid. Tweak it a little, remove 'too much 20th century' and it becomes uselful item.

Strap-On of Astounding 	- Cutie... but too expensive to be more than perhaps some unique creation of some bored, wealthy wizard or something. Doesn't deserve place as 'foundable magic item'.

Teeny-Weeny Bikini 		- Not very usable or cool effect for something costing 12 000 gp

Underwear items 		- Everclean underwear/clothes always comfortable clothes etc, would actually be useful. This takes it to some.. well silly direction.

Monsters 
---- 
Recondite		- This monster is not silly. It is very evil. It makes a good plot hook. Tantacled demons allergy must be some boy-thing.  

Skirtseeker 	- Name change might be in order. I can well imagine some twisted demon worshipping mage to create such race. Such creatures might also be enchanted to spread magical disease and other dark things like that.

Twat Mouse 	- I can guess what sector of net porn inspired this one. Not very interesting or useful IMO.
Wild Oats 			- Quite neat mythology creature IMO, comes with dryad too.

---------- 

My comments

Freudian Thoughts		- Name change, this is too fantasy-earth. I commented this earlier.

Lovesickness		- Good example of rule-weirdness. May wear off as charm person, but may be removed with cure disease. I don't care if it's supposed to be joke.. harhar... love... being sick.. whatever. Rule correction desperately needed.

Playmate		- Tanilen is very right about spell-level IMO.

Potency		- A&D rule leftover warning.

Prevent Nausea	- Why limit effect to women? Nausea is very common effect in many children sickness etc, so why only think pregnant women (I guess, that was the idea)? Besides there is spell 'Revulsion', nausea is nausea, after all.


Also, Tentacular staffs and such might have good home at hentai suppliment.

Also, we are lacking all those golems, that make replicas for lovers. Actually, this kind of creatures are common in mythology (if unique).


Rule tweaking needed... a lot.

*Bestow curse/cause disease spells need a lot of variation effects. I have a lot of evil wizard/necromancer/demon/witch curses in my game.

Many *I want to cause nasty change/behavior alteration* in person actually fit under effect of those spells. In role-play heavy
games socially devastating effects might be needed to be more  high level spells, but since we are using PHB spells as basis.
I'd base spell level to actual game static it causes, or overall power effect can grant.

More uses (=abuses) for 'normal' spell texts might be in order.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 29, 2002)

Layla?s Seductive Impersonation 
Layla?s Seductive Shapechange 

Well, I actually like those spells, I guess I am Layla-fan or something. 

Oh, and there ís never too much variations of shape alterations, especially considering what problems WotC has had actually deciding what polymorph-spells exactly are able to do.

Almost all spells in guide should are in serious need of rule-correction. Riot Gear is so right.

Also, there are great monsters from earlier editions of D&D which would fit well in our guide. Certain vampire variation comes to my mind.


Sorry about not able to edit my prior post here better.


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## Anabstercorian (Apr 30, 2002)

*On The Loss of The Family Jewels*

Several spells and weapon enchantments, or simply angry dungeon masters, can lead to this state of affairs.  Any character with these organs who has them destroyed must immediately make a Concentration check (DC 15) or be Nauseated for 1d4 rounds.  Until the damage is repaired using a Regeneration spell, the character is rendered impotent.  Simply getting hit in the balls isn't much worse than getting smacked with a 15 pound warhammer in the face or chest, so there are no special rules for called shots.  Spells that inflict this trauma cause no damage unless otherwise noted.


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## Kichwas (Apr 30, 2002)

> Eromancer



Why this name? I'd think 'Tantric' or something would make more sense, as it's an actual real world specialization of the occult. I came this (.) close to joining a tantric order when I was younger after getting an invite... Might have been an interesting life if I had; albeit a strange one.




> Many old spells suffer from 'Second edition aka AD&D system backflashs. Like -4 or whatever to save, without a mention of 'what save'? Will, fort, ref?
> 
> ...
> 
> uses 2nd edition charm person spell tables. Good or bad



Yes this is bad. We need to make all the rules for all of the spells in the guide consistant with each other and with the d20 system.

If you look through the PHB you'll notice certain themes in certain spells. For instance all detect spells work the same way.

This guide will need to get with that program.



> Teeny-Weeny Bikini - Not very usable or cool effect for something costing 12 000 gp



In the DMG there is a consistant system for determining prices on Magic Items. We should apply it throughout and were it is missing information we should add such and then apply it. I suspect the result will be much lower costs across the board.



> On The Loss of The Family Jewels
> 
> Several spells and weapon enchantments, or simply angry dungeon masters, can lead to this state of affairs.



Mongoose's Quintessential Fighter has some rules for Called Shots that may come in handy here.


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## Zelda Themelin (Apr 30, 2002)

There is reason for rule problems with spells.

When we started translating/re-writing this guide, kolvar did most of the work, if not all, alone to translate spells from existing guide.

That's great lot of work, and rule-corrections take time and though, especially many spells, like riot gear points out, were just plain badly written. This was actually pretty common problem with 2nd edition spells, since they lack consistancy, and don't always seem to use similar rules.

I think, that when we have decided themes and, renamings, and what's out permanently from next version of our guide, we could try to rework these spells and other stuff we wanted to keep.

Hehheh, I have few new/old spell ideas, in badly written zelda-style of course. Want to see?


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## tanilen (Apr 30, 2002)

Reading through Zelda's list, I find myself agreeing with her on most issues. The problem with these spells isn't so much the intent but the execution (ok, and the names). My biggest beef with them is that there are too many of them that do the same thing basically, but at wildly different spell levels. There should definately be a Seduce Person Spell, and one that induces lust, and one that makes  targets orgasm, but we don't need 30 spells to accomplish it!

The only thing i can really contribute to the tweaking of the rules side is a lot of the spells make up their own rules as to how the effects are demonstrated. We now have a set of mehanics for how sex works, and also defined states of being, like "aroused," "Peaked" and "Sexually Delerious."  I think the spells should refer to these for effects, to take advantage of the system we have created and present a seamles, consistant product.

And oh yeah, as for the recondite: Thanks to a freindly playtester, I finally got to take one of these babies out for a test drive. =) Fun! A little tweaking rule wise may be in order, but a good monster who can easily overpower most oppenents and defeat them, yet leave lots of ways for the DM to have the PC's survive the encounter. I like it.


----------



## kolvar (Apr 30, 2002)

When are the basic rules finalized? 
One of the problems (apart from being stupid, knowing to little about the rules, having a lot to do and hoping to be done with it soon) was, that while I had my first go with the spells, the basic rules changed. The next person, that wishes to have a go on the spells, should have fixed rules.

@Zelda: Just lists? Your explanations are good, but the intend of the first lists was,  just to get something we could start with (everything we drop, we have not to worry about again). About Layla: As you can see, the both Spells you mentioned I would personally keep. 

@Arcady: Would you take the magic items and rework them?


----------



## Zelda Themelin (Apr 30, 2002)

kolvar

By 'just lists' I just meant, do you want just lists, because I wanted to make longer explanation. There are few spells, that are IMO worth while (naah, none of them mine  ), and I'd like to keep them, but not as such.

I mostly went through just with those spells on list (ok, I checked them all), items I didn't read except those Isawa mentioned.

Lists are very good, hopefully my comments are of some help too.

I don't want to kick every spell mentioned out. Few need rules changing, or reworking, name change, or kicking them to hentai-guide. Removing some silly/offensive comments, that are just 'extra' are in place also, Chains of Lust, anyone?

Needlessly stupid material components I'd remove/change, but that's my personal bias. Some of them seem to be 20th century culture jokes, and I don't get few them at all.

Prices for magic items are a bit off.


tanilen

IMO there can be many spells for causing lust/ecstasy, after all, there are many different versions of basicly same attack spell. I think this is cool as long as they are somewhat different in flavor/purpose, and their spell-levels are logical compared to each other.

Many peoplë, who bother to read spells beyond PHB, love spell-variations. I love them very much, as long as they compare logically in level/effect/balance. Not all spells has to be equally balaced of course, dm:s want their 'evil dm'-spells. I want mine, at least.

Also, there might be different love/hate/lust/insanity curse-effects, that actually go under bestow curse, but no harm writing 'few examples', though I don't know if they must be separate spells. How you like idea of making Bestow curse (insanity is under this spell)-variations?

I most certainly agree on existing mechanics use, like arousal states, etc, but we also need to say effect in terms of 'normal game', and that means -4 to all actions and stuff like that. Also, IMO certain spell effects take subject beyond normal scale of human feeling, or can be compared to at least 'drugged state'. Such effects are IMO harmful, causing damage, subdual damage and/or addiction, besides potential arousal effects, that must be mentioned, if any, since such affect our 'sex system' rulings.

Anabstercorian

Good idea for 'losing family jewels'. How do rest of you like it?

Also, there needs to be taken into account, does for example spell do this in way, that causes actual damage, besides pain-trauma, saying, lost of hit points. How about subdual damage, if not that? This is something, that needs to be covered with spells, that cause such effect. Otherwise I'd say it to be just normal or maybe critical (probably on criticals only effect) weapon damage.


----------



## kolvar (Apr 30, 2002)

The Lost Jewels are nice, though it just have to think about the rack rule (I think it was called) where all man seeing it are agonized or at least make a face.


----------



## Anabstercorian (Apr 30, 2002)

I recommend we lift the Rack Rule from the original guide without changing it.  It's mostly for humor anyway, and it couldn't get much funnier.


----------



## kolvar (Apr 30, 2002)

will probably do it on thursday and publish the next version of the web enhancement.


----------



## Anabstercorian (Apr 30, 2002)

I'll go over the Feats after school today and clean them up in to a more readable format.


----------



## Sorn (Apr 30, 2002)

I pretty much agree with everything said since my last post. 

Spell variations are nice and fine, but if something is already pretty well covered by exitsting spells (see all the prestidigitations or the countless variations of seductions and charms), let's just put it into the "New Uses for Old Spells" section. Dragon Mag or Tome&Blood had a list of uses for Prestidigitation, so we can just expand on that with a sexual twist. 

Also, Sorcerer's and Bards have a limited number of spells, I think most people would go with the more general PHB spell instead of a slightly specialized "sex version". Again, more stuff for the "New Uses" section.

Items: 

Definitely check prices and prerequisite spells. The weapon and armor stuff is pretty limited, and not too great in any case. Probably could be dropped without anyone missing it. Tentacular staff should go into the Tentacle Madness book. Phallic Wand could stay IMHO, although it is a bit of a rulesbreaker (since there is normally no way to "recharge" wands). 

The Rings are fine for the most part, except for possibly the  ring.

Other things that need some work:

The pregnancy section is rather rules-light and essay-heavy. It reads more like an Anthropology textbook than a gaming supplement. More race/fantasy specific stuff needs to be added. I'll peruse that section later today and see if I can come up with any improvements. I'll also double-check the Prestige CLasses and see if everything conforms to the current standards (e.g. spellcasters get +1 level at certain intervals instead of customized lists/prerequisites allow for 6th level)

I really like the Eromancer, and that could easily take the spot of the Pimp if we decide to give it the axe.

The Transgender Shaman is another one of those PrC's that doesn't really fly. Most cultures that have Shamans usually just kill or exile people deviating from the norm, so I doubt there would be too many TG Shamans.


----------



## Anabstercorian (May 1, 2002)

*Rewritten Feats from the Guide*

*Aroused Casting* becomes *Sexual Spell* (Fits more with the format for metamagic feats - *"Adjective" Spell*.)

*Sexual Spell*  [Metamagic]
You can cast a spell through the act of sex.
*Benefits:* You may cast a spell without somatic components, verbal components, or material components that cost less than one GP, but you can only cast it within one round of experiencing an orgasm.  Additionally, spells affected by this feat can be cast during sexual activity without a Concentration check.
Spells affected by this feat take up a spell slot no higher level than usual, altered as usual by other metamagic feats.

*Sex Appeal [General]*
You are sexy enough to drive a person to distraction.
*Benefits:* In a situation where you can bring your physical and mental charm to bear, you can gain an advantage over those attracted to you.  All people in your presence distracted by your wiles receive a -2 penalty to Appraise, Listen, Sense Motive, and Spot checks.  In addition, you gain a +2 bonus to Bluff, Diplomacy, and Pick Pocket checks against all such victims.
Distracting someone with your wiles requires you to consciously use provocative mannerisms, clothing, or conversation on a target whose mental structure allows them to be attracted to you.  If they notice any hostile action towards them on your part, the effect is immediately broken.
At the DM's discretion, certain situational modifiers may increase or decrease these bonuses.

I think it would be best to combine all of the various sexual psionic feats in to one big feat.  Think about it - a feat is a big thing, and a psionic feat is even more so.  At the moment, my personal opinion is that they're too weak.

*Psionic Sexuality* [Psionic]
You've devoted your mastery of your inner strength and mental power to becoming a sexual powerhouse.
*Benefits:* As long as you have at least 1 PP remaining, you gain a +4 bonus to all Sexual Prowess checks.
*Special:* This feat can be taken multiple times and stacks - Each time, the required PP increases by +8, and the bonus increases by 1.  For example, a Psion could have taken Psionic Sexuality three times, gaining a total bonus of +15 (+4, +5, and +6) to Sexual Prowess checks, but would need at least 25 PP.  If his PP dropped below 13, the bonus would reduce as though he has lost feats - First to +9, then to +4, then to nothing.

*Arcane Coitus*
You can transfer magical power to or from yourself through a sexual encounter.
*Requirements:* Spontaneous spellcasting, Sexual Spell, Caster Level 3
*Benefits:*You can leech magical energy out of your lovers, or infuse your lovers with your own magical energy, through sexual intercourse.  You must engage in sexual intercourse with a single, willing lover who has the ability to spontaneously cast spells, and choose whether you want to give or take magical energy.  Your lover need only be willing - They don't have to know that you intend to take power.  However, if they have this feat as well, they will immediately realize what you're doing.
If you decide to give magical energy, you immediately lose the ability to cast the highest level of spells you can spontaneously cast for one day, but your lover gains a single bonus spell per day of the same level spell that you lost the ability to cast.  If you decide to take magical energy, the process is exactly the same but reversed.
If you use this feat multiple times in one day, you can only do it once per day per person, and you can only gain a single bonus spell in each level spell you can cast.









That's all for now.


----------



## Kichwas (May 1, 2002)

kolvar said:
			
		

> *@Arcady: Would you take the magic items and rework them? *



You'd really be hitting me on my weak point with that one. In my own campaign I ripped out the entire d20/DnD magic system and replaced it with one that is much more occult like and has no permanent magic items.

I can do all sorts of other rules, such as the pregnancy and abortion 'alpha stage' rules I did up earlier (alpha as in I need to refine them for trimesters and see how they impact whatever rules for such are currently in the guide). But I'd prefer staying clear of magic items and to a lesser extent the spells; since in my own games I know I would use neither.

As long as the spells actually fit the d20 mechanics and they 'd20 method of consistant design' I'm fairly happy with them. I'm sure there's people watching this who are meticulous rules lawyers that could ensure such.


That said...

Here are my guidelines on how I think the spell redeisng should be handled:


Step 1. Figure out how powerful of an effect should be legitimate at every given spell level.

So at spell level 1 you can do xdy damage, or cause z amount of instant 'transformation / incapacitation to a victim of HD a.

Given that, how much more can you do for spell levels 2-9?

Once you've figured this out you can start to map out the spells to their proper levels.

If a spell has a save it should simply be the normal save rules: Will, Fort, Ref. No modifiers. The mods come with the spellcaster's feats, level, and so on.

Spell Resistance is a yes/no question.

Ranges on spells should be short, medium, long, or touch.


If the spell is a detect, you know it has a three round staging where concentration gives you more and more detail. 

Does the current version have any charts, tables, special die rolls, or whatever?
*get rid of them*
Almost everything can be bundled into a skill check or save in the current edition.
Unless there is no way to handle that situation using the normal d20 mechanics the special rules should not be there.


Get where I'm going?

Just map everything to what the 3E REQUIRES.


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## Sorn (May 1, 2002)

Arcady: Spell guidelines sound solid. Since you are already working on abortion stuff, do you want to overhaul the pregnancy section as well? I didn't even get started on it yesterday due to an allergy attack. I am pretty decent with math, so I could tackle the Magic Item section instead.


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## Anabstercorian (May 1, 2002)

Another point of interest is a section that's been in all the splat books - Non magical equipment.  Here's what I think we should have in it.

Furniture (Beds, futons, cushions, and whatnot...)

New outfits (Specifically, the harlot's outfit and the catsuit, modeled in the PHB by Mialee and Lidda respectively.)

"Toys" for less than innocent play

More shackles (what?  They're for securing captives.  Yes, I know they're leather.  They're less likely to damage the goods.  No, it's nothing like that, god!)

Alchemical brews (Aphrodesiacs, viagra-esques, and birth control drugs.)

Comments?


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## Sorn (May 1, 2002)

Anabstercorian: Good idea...


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## Anabstercorian (May 1, 2002)

*New Equipment Post*

There are a few terms for sex toys used in this post.  If that's a problem for you, what the heck are you even doing in this thread?  I mean, seriously.


```
[COLOR=coral]
Item......................................Cost......Weight
----......................................----......------
Bed, One Person.....................12 sp.....75 lbs
Bed, Two-Person.....................22 sp.....140 lbs
Bed, Heart-Shaped...................8 gp......160 lbs
Bed, Masterwork.....................+420 gp...N/A
Bed Canopy, Linen...................100 gp....20 lbs
Bed Canopy, Silk....................250 gp....10 lbs
Bedroll, Average....................1 sp......5 lbs
Bedroll, Masterwork.................2 gp......3 lbs
Catsuit.............................80 gp.....3 lbs
Couch, Roman........................1 gp......20 lbs
Courtessan's Outfit.................30 gp.....2 lbs
Courtessan's Outfit, Fine...........100 gp.....2 lbs
Dildo, Small, Wood or Ceramic.......1 sp......*
Dildo, Medium, Wood or Ceramic......2 sp......*
Dildo, Large, Wood or Ceramic.......3 sp......0.25 lbs
Dildo, Small, Ivory or Copper.......2 gp.....*
Dildo, Medium, Ivory or Copper......3 gp.....0.25 lbs
Dildo, Large, Ivory or Copper.......4 gp.....0.5 lbs
Dildo, Small, Silver or Glass.......20 gp.....*
Dildo, Medium, Silver or Glass......30 gp.....0.25 lbs
Dildo, Large, Silver or Glass.......40 gp.....0.5 lbs
Dildo, Masterwork...................+10 gp...N/A
Dildo, Silver or Glass, MW..........+100 gp...N/A
Cheap Harlot's Outfit...............1 sp.....2 lbs
Leather Manacles....................8 gp......1 lb
Leather Manacles, Masterwork........80 gp.....2 lb
Pillow, Cloth.......................2 sp......0.2 lb
Pillow, Silk........................2 gp......*
Pornographic Pamphlet..............1 sp......**
Pornographic Pamphlet, MW...........5+ gp.....*
Swimsuit, Conservative..............3 sp......4 lbs (15 lbs wet)
Swimsuit, Tight.....................1 gp......1 lb (3 lbs wet)
Swimsuit, Drow......................2 gp......**
Underclothing, Chaste...............1 cp......*
Underclothing, Suggestive...........2 sp......**
Underclothing, Lingerie.............10 gp....**

* indicates the item has negligible weight.  10 of these weigh one pound.
** indicates the item has almost no weight.  100 of these weigh one pound.

[/COLOR]
```

*Bed, One Person:* This is a wooden bed frame containing a tightly packed straw mattress.  It tends to collect bugs unless the straw is changed out regularly, but it's comfy.  It's sized for a single person.  Alter the cost of a bed for different sized creatures as though the bed were a suit of armor.

*Bed, Two Person:* As a one person bed, but sized for two people.

*Bed, Heart-Shaped:* As a one person bed, but sized for up to three people and shaped like a heart.

*Bed, Masterwork:* Masterwork beds, instead of straw padding, have felt padding treated with an alchemical potion to ward off insects, and are extremely comfortable.  Aside from being great spots for sex, they're excellent for bed rest, offering a +2 bonus to Heal checks for long term care to anyone who rests exclusively on a masterwork bed.

*Bed Canopy:* A bed canopy is a frame over a bed hung with drapes to conceal the bed from view.  It can be used for privacy or modesty, made of various qualities of cloth, or decorated with all sorts of designs.  Certain ornate ones might cost more than usual, or even qualify as art objects.

*Bedroll:*A bedroll is a tightly packed roll of blankets and padding that serves as a portable bed.  It only comfortably fits one, but can be occupied by two in a pinch or three extremely close friends.  A masterwork bedroll is formed of fine silk cloth with a bottom layer of tough leather, so it lasts longer and is more comfortable, and provides a +2 bonus to Heal checks to provide long term care to patients resting in it.

*Catsuit:* A more or less skintight body suit made from treated leather that shrinks to hug the body perfectly.  It has to be personally tailored to fit properly, but allows total freedom freedom of movement and allows the use of the Body to Die For feat.  The iconic character Lidda wears a catsuit.

*Couch, Roman:* This couch isn't meant for sleeping, but rather for relaxing and reclining.  However, it's suitable for an intimate encounter in a pinch.  The frame is usually wood with crushed fabric padding.

*Dildos:* These are carved phallic objects used to take the place of an actual penis for sexual play or masturbation.  They come in a variety of sizes and materials, although expensive polished wood and ivory are the most common.  Masterwork ones have perfectly formed surfaces designed specifically to increase pleasure - Ribs, little bumbs, a certain type of curvature, and so forth.  Masterwork dildos provide a +2 bonus to Sexual Prowess checks made involving them.

*Harlot's Outfit:* This could be almost any type of highly revealing, sexually suggestive outfit, and is usually a little chilly.  It can be worn in conjunction with the Body to Die For feat, but often allows very little freedom of movement due to high heeled boots or something equally debilitating.  The iconic character Mialee wears a harlot's outfit.

*Leather Manacles:* Leather manacles are similar to normal manacles, but more comfortable and tighter.  All of their Escape Artist DC's for escape are two points higher, and their break DC's are three points lower.  These are also occasionally used for those saddled with a bondage fetish, and masterwork leather manacles are often full body affairs.  Masterwork leather manacles gain an additional +4 bonus to their Escape Artist DC if the captive wearing it is naked.

*Pillow:* A soft pad made of cloth with raw fiber stuffing, such as cotton or twill.  It's comfy and soft, and good for sitting.  Fairies will occasionally gleefully roll around naked on silk pillows if you give them the chance.

*Pornographic Pamphlet:* This is a hand drawn and copied leaflet containing explicit drawings and material.  Because it was drawn by hand, it's very expensive, and the quality varies dramatically from artist to artist.
Masterwork pamphlets are created by mages using Prestidigitation and Write, or by extremely skilled artists, and are thus of remarkably higher quality.  They're also printed on better paper, and better bound.  They also cost a fat two pounds of gold.

*Swimsuit, Conservative:* A concealing and modest swimsuit concealing almost the entire body under ballooning cloth, this outfit nonetheless is good for swimming, although it weighs a ton after absorbing water.

*Swimsuit, Tight:* A skintight suit of supple animal skin or fine fabric, this suit could range from a wet suit to a one-piece to a bikini.  The Body To Die For feat can be used in conjunction with a tight swimsuit.

*Swimsuit, Drow:* A patina of diaphanous spiderwebs only barely covering the unmentionable anatomy of either gender, this swimsuit also supports and firms the groin or breasts dramtically, giving a +1 bonus to all effects resulting from the Body To Die For feat.

*Underclothing, Chaste:* Simple cotton underclothes that amply hide all unmentionables beneath opaque white cloth.

*Underclothing, Suggestive:* Tighter underclothes of a suggestive color, or highly revealing underclothing, or partially transparent underclothing.

*Underclothing, Lingerie:* Highly revealing, skin tight underclothing with exotic embroidery, perhaps of suggestive scenes.

Complete, for now.


----------



## CaptainCalico (May 1, 2002)

*Actually.......*

I think the TG PrC is very apropo, if handled correctly.



			
				Sorn said:
			
		

> *
> The Transgender Shaman is another one of those PrC's that doesn't really fly. Most cultures that have Shamans usually just kill or exile people deviating from the norm, so I doubt there would be too many TG Shamans. *




You obviosly have a ton on your plate but I will point you to several books that would tend to support letting the TG Shaman PrC remain.

Y'all are doing a great job BTW .


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## Anabstercorian (May 1, 2002)

Thanks, Captain Calico, it always feels good to be encouraged.   Have you seen the actual class?  If so, what would you recommend we change about it, if anything?


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## Anabstercorian (May 2, 2002)

Equipment cost and weight listing completed!  Next I'll set up descriptions of those items and their uses, and then I'll start on the Alchemicals.


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## kolvar (May 2, 2002)

Sorn said:
			
		

> *The pregnancy section is rather rules-light and essay-heavy. It reads more like an Anthropology textbook than a gaming supplement. More race/fantasy specific stuff needs to be added.
> *




Eh, that was the intention originally, to give basic rules but mostly give ideas for DMs to use when creating campaigns or new races. I think, that we have to few of that stuff in the guide at the moment. Rules are fine, but as we have seen, a lot of masters and players do not see the point of sexuality in their game and I think that sexuality is more than just having a good f*** or rules for when I become pregnant and how to get rid of it.



			
				Sorn said:
			
		

> *The Transgender Shaman is another one of those PrC's that doesn't really fly. Most cultures that have Shamans usually just kill or exile people deviating from the norm, so I doubt there would be too many TG Shamans. *



The north american indians had some people that had holy people, who where man, that where regarded as female. Maybe the class should get rid of the "shaman" and become more of a mage. Some hentai stress the point of omnipotence in sexuality (i.e. being able to pleasure both sides). And a lot of fantasy stresses the point of the difference in female and male magic (e.g WoT, Discworld etc.). Someone, who tries to see both sides should receive power by it.


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## Zelda Themelin (May 2, 2002)

kolvar: Agreed, to both.


Riot Gear: Nice item list.

Sex toys are very old invention indeed, dildos and all that. How about little picture-booklests? Weren't quite porn magazines, but had very similar purpose at earlier eras.


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## Sorn (May 2, 2002)

Ok, I stand corrected on TG Shamans...     I guess even though I read the class when looking for art, the overpowering mental image of Patrick Swayze and Wesley Snipes in drag trying to mesh with the typical image of a shaman with animal bones etc. made my brain shut down. When I showed the draft version to a few gaming buddies, they all skipped right over the TG PrC due to the title, so a new name might be in order. Looking at the book titles Captain Calico posted, how about  these:

"Two-Spirit Shaman"
"Berdache"
"Changing One"

Personally, I lean more towards Two-Spirit Shaman, since up until now, I had no idea what a Berdache was, and Changing One kinda implies more tradional shapeshifting/polymorphing.

re Pregnancy rules: I don't want to add any complicated rules, however, instead of having a dry description like "Some races do X, others do Y", use actual fantasy races and it sounds a lot more gaming related.


re mundane equipment: Excellent job. When you are done, could you send me the finished chapter and I'll get it ready for layout (plus get artwork). And you are all right... sex toys are pretty old inventions. Same thing for picture booklets.  I think this could replace the Porn Periodicals quite nicely. The booklets should be expensive, since they will probably be hand-copied. Alternatively, how about a list of art objects (like in the DMG) including erotic items.


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## Anabstercorian (May 2, 2002)

Thanks, Sorn - and I recommend we call them Twin-Soul Shaman.  It just sounds good, rolls right off the tongue.


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## Kichwas (May 3, 2002)

Sorn said:
			
		

> [Bre Pregnancy rules: I don't want to add any complicated rules, however, instead of having a dry description like "Some races do X, others do Y", use actual fantasy races and it sounds a lot more gaming related.[/B]





The rules I created on page 3 of this discussion were designed to be anything but.

Their purpose is to prevent complexity and allow for the presense of rules in those places within the issue that they belong.


----------



## kolvar (May 3, 2002)

@arcady: I think we are not talking about your rules at the moment, but about what is already in the guide.


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## Sorn (May 3, 2002)

What kolvar said. Right now, we have 14 pages in the pregnancy chapter, some of which are gaming-specific (effects of polymorphing, undeath, spells, etc.). Most of the remaining pages is a rather vague dissertation about cultural differences that has a lot of good points, but does not give any concrete references to any fantasy races. 

Arcady, your rules are great, and should definitely replace some of the stuff we have right now, but if we can mesh these two somehow (even if we just put some  notes on pregnancy in the "Sexuality by Race" section) it would truly be outstanding.

This weekend, I will definitely attack the magic item section in full force. I was planning on doing it during the week, but my boss went on medical leave, so I was somewhat swamped at work (plus the constantly running nose didn't help... allergies suck big time).

Addition: read the chat transcript for the Chat with Monte Cook. There are some tidbits on sex in the upcoming Book of Vile Darkness. There won't be any rules for sex per se, but some short descriptors on how villains might use sex to attain their goals. Very interesting. Here's a link


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## Kichwas (May 3, 2002)

Sorn: Meshing the two is my intention. In a way that keeps it:

simple
fast
sensible
d20 consistant


If I haven't done so by the end of the weekend you can all line up to come over and b*tch-slap back into order. 

I've got a number of race ideas too but I'll not do those until I'm sitting down with my MM to make sure I don't step out of bounds with any of the races, even where I personally disagree with the MM.


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## Sorn (May 3, 2002)

Arcady, sounds good. (The meshing, not the slapping). 

If I don't get done with the magic items, I'll have my wife slap me around... but then again, I might enjoy that... who knows...


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## Anabstercorian (May 4, 2002)

Alchemical Creations 


```
[COLOR=silver]
Item.............................Price.....Weight....Alchemy DC
Aphrodesiac (Male)...............
Aphrodesiac (Female).............
Contraceptive (Male).............
Contraceptive (Female)...........
Lubricant........................
Performance Enhancer (Male)......
Performance Enhancer (Female)....
```
[/COLOR]

Okay, the previous equipment post has been finished.  Go look at it.  What do you think the alchemical brews in here should cost?


----------



## Kichwas (May 4, 2002)

BTW; the piercings thread is something we might want to address in the guide.

there are two regions on the chest and a few 'in the briefs / knickers' that could be used to place piercings and there's no reason not to enchant something there...


----------



## Merior (May 4, 2002)

There are options for piercings as well other than the ones that you listed, tongue and lip come to mind especially even if they might attract attention to the wearer in most civilized regions. I've got two items along these lines somewhere about that I worked out, now if I could only find them... I'll try to dig them out to post by tonight.


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## Kichwas (May 4, 2002)

Here are some revised item costs. Remember the SP economy.
	
	



```
[color=white]
Item..........................Cost......Weight
----..........................----......------
Dildo, Small, Wood or Ceramic............1 sp......*
Dildo, Medium, Wood or Ceramic...........2 sp......*
Dildo, Large, Wood or Ceramic............3 sp......0.25 lbs
Dildo, Small, Ivory or Copper...........2 gp.....*
Dildo, Medium, Ivory or Copper..........3 gp.....0.25 lbs
Dildo, Large, Ivory or Copper...........4 gp.....0.5 lbs
Dildo, Small, Silver or Glass...........20 gp.....*
Dildo, Medium, Silver or Glass..........30 gp.....0.25 lbs
Dildo, Large, Silver or Glass...........40 gp.....0.5 lbs

Dildo, Masterwork............+10 gp...N/A
Dildo, Silver or Glass, Masterwork............+100 gp...N/A


Cheap Harlot's Outfit...............1 sp.....2 lbs
Courtessan's Outfit...............30 gp.....2 lbs
Fine Courtessan's Outfit...............100 gp.....2 lbs

Pornographic Pamphlet........1 sp......**
Pornographic Pamphlet, MW....5+ gp.....*

Underclothing, Suggestive.....2 sp......**
Underclothing, Lingerie.......10 gp....**

* indicates the item has negligible weight.  10 of these weigh one pound.
** indicates the item has almost no weight.  100 of these weigh one pound.

[/color]
```


----------



## Kichwas (May 4, 2002)

Note on piercings and Dildo's as magic items:

Piercings should probably fall under 'ring' in the rules for how magic items are constructed. They should probably add one or two more 'ring' slots to a character.


Dildos could be made as any of rod, stave, wand, or wonderous.


----------



## 2late (May 5, 2002)

@Anabstercorian/Riot Gear:
You could add perfume, as well as aromatic oils and massage oil to the alchemical creations. Things as rouge could also fit into this list.

Btw. I have an addtion for the chapter "Species Sexualities", which is according to the credits your content. Would you mind If I contribute additional species not mentioned by you?

This would be:

*Doppelganger*
Doppelgangers in their natural form are sexless creatures and cannot produce among themselves. While they don't really enjoy sex they mate outside of their race to produce offspring. A Doppelgangers offspring will always be a doppelganger as well, but it appears as a normal child of it's non-doppelganger parents kind without any powers Doppelgangers are known for. Upon the time puberty normally sets in for this species, they cease to be of  this race and instead become fully fledged Doppelgangers. Because they are born as either girls or boys at least their mindset can be said to be noticeable male or female.
Doppelgangers get Adaptive Lover(Humanoids) as a bonus Sex Trick and their partner is always considered "Easy to Read", because of their mental abilities.

*Hags*
Hags are sexual creatures but since there are only female hags, bisexuality is common and they have to mate with other races in order to produce offspring. Being of  horrific appearance, they usually rely on their magic abilities to appear as beautiful maidens for potential mates or charm them outright. After mating, the male partner is usually slain and devoured, although a hag might share a mate with its covey before doing this. Hags receive Adaptive Lover (Humanoids) as a bonus Sex Trick.
Hag offspring is always female and there are legends that a pregnant hag can exchange their unborn with that of a humanoid female while she is asleep. Such a Hag-Child is said to slay the woman which brought it to term.

*Lamia*
Lamia are known to be cruel and delight in bringing good creatures to horrible deaths. However they are also known to be passionate creatures and like to play with their victims before killing them, if the opportunity arises. Such a victim is usually allowed to live as long as it is able to satisfy the lamias lust. 
Lamias get Wild Lover and Adaptive Lover(Humanoids, Monstrous Humanoids and Fey) as bonus Sex Tricks.

*Lycanthropes*
Being afflicted with Lycanthropy does not change a creatures sexuality, although lycanthropes tend to be more passionate than their normal kin. This seems to be especially true when their animal counterpart would be in heat. 
Natural lycanthropes seem to enjoy the keener senses of their animal or hybrid form while mating.
As a remarkable side note, it might be interesting that some lycanthropes shape changes are not directly linked to the phase of the moon. In some of these cases, a lycanthropes shapechange is triggered by the bliss of an orgasm, whereas the light of the moon is arousing for the werebeast. Such a character is considered to be aroused as soon as moonlight touches her body. A character under this circumstances becomes additionally horny if the moon is waxing (and at least half full) and lustful under the light of the full moon. The DC to resist an involuntary shapechange upon orgasm is equal to the DC of the last arousal check. The change lasts at least as long as the character had been aroused before.

*Xill*
Xill are known for their cruelty and they usually delight in sadism. They have very little sexuality towards their own kind, besides the fertilisation of their eggs and this act usually doesn't lead to satisfaction or pleasure for them. They are however known to molest or even rape their victims before they implant their eggs into them. Xill receive Powerful Lover and Sadism as bonus Sex Tricks.

Next would be Aranea.


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## 2late (May 5, 2002)

Rather than new Magical items, conversion of old ones:
(The dreaded)Girdle of Femininity/Masculinity: This broad leather band appears to as a normal Belt or girdle. Once buckled on, it will instantly and irreversible change its wearers gender to the opposite. It then loses all power. Ten percent of these girdles are actually cursed to remove all sex from the wearer. 
After use, the character is partwise immune to shapechange: No mater what kind of magic is used, the new form will be noticeable of the wearers new gender.
If it is desired to restore the character's original sex, a wish might work with a 50% chance, whereas a miracle works automatically (if this request is not in opposite to the deities nature).
Caster level: 15th Perquisites: Create Wondrous Item, Polymorph any Object, Bestow Curse or Wish/Miracle Market Price: 600 Gp

(Conversion from the Old DMG; Price is: Single Use(Polymorph any Object), Use Activated: Spellevel(8)xCasterLevel(15)x50GP=600Gp)

Aromatic Oils
Aromatic oils are a special type of magical potions which powers are power comes from the released scent. They require to be  applied upon a living creature, before they can take effect. Once applied, the aromatic oil gradually needs to react with the wearer for 1d4 rounds before the stated power begins to take effect. The creature wearing the aromatic oil is not affected by its powers, but  all other creatures with a sense of smell and within 5 foot radius of the wearer are subject to its effects. Usually a saving throw is entitled to avoid the effects of an Aromatic Oil.  If the save is successful, the victim suffers no effects and may remain near the wearer without need of further saving throws until a new dose is applied to the wearer.
These precious perfumes are usually found in tiny coppered vials made of glass, clay, metal, or wood. Only a small amount is required per use. A new vial contains enough aromatic oil for 20 applications, a found or used vials usually has 2d10 uses left. An Aromatic Oil evaporates after it looses its potential  and another dose must be applied if the wearer wishes to renew the effect.

Aroma of Dreams: All creatures who come within 5' of the wearer fall asleep if they don't  succeed a will save (DC11). If the save fails they are put to a magical slumber which lasts 1d4+4 Minutes.  Once applied the scent is potent for 3d4 minutes. 
Caster level: 3rd Perquisites: Brew Potion, Sleep; Market Price: 1200 Gp

(Conversion from the 2nd Edition Tome of Magic; 
Price is: Use activated(Sleep), Charged(20 of 50 Charges(all in all 40%)): Spellevel(1)xCasterLevel(3)x2000GPxCharged(1/2)*40%)

Starella's Aphrodisiac: Any creature potentially interested in the wearers race and sex, which approaches within 5 feet becomes enamored with the wearer, as if under the effect of a powerful charm. Potential victims are allowed a Will save (DC16) to avoid this. 
If the save fails, the creature is charmed as long as he or she remains within 5 feet of the wearer and the aphrodisiac is still potent. If the victim leaves the area or the Aphrodisiac loses its effects the charm will wear of in 2d4*10 Minutes.  An affected victim does not behave as if he were a mindless automaton but sees the wearer as an trusted ally and romantic interest to be heeded and protected. The charmed individual, will view words and actions of the wearer in the most favorable way, but this attitude does not extend to others. It is possible for the victim to be overcome by jealousy, viewing all others (and other victims in special) as potential rivals. Once applied the scent is potent for 3d4*10 minutes. 
Caster level: 7th; Perquisites: Brew Potion, Charm Monster; Market Price: 8200 Gp

(Conversion from the 2nd Edition Tome of Magic; 
Price is: Use activated(Charm Monster), Charged(20 of 50 Charges(all in all 40%)): Spellevel(3)xCasterLevel(7)x2000GPxCharged(1/2)*40%)


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## thundershot (May 6, 2002)

The dreaded girdle wasn't in 3E because sex change was just added to ANY magic item as a curse.  Bwahahaha..


Chris


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## Kichwas (May 6, 2002)

*EDIT: Posted wrong version last night*


Here's an initial piece that replaces 'Getting Pregnant' and goes up to just before 
"1. Degree of Difficulty of Pregnancy "
in the current Guide.

Still examing the rest to see if anything needs modification.

GETTING PREGNANT

The females of a species will be on either the Estrus or Menstrual cycle. In the real world humans and some apes are Menstrual, most animals are Estrus. In fantasy anything goes but more than likely anything which is human-like or can have a social system that can be human like should be menstrual. A very slow Estrus cycle though may explain things like low fertility among Dragons.

If the female is on an Estrus cycle she will go in heat during certain seasonal periods dictated by the optimal mating seasons of her native environment. During this time she will feel an uncontrable need to mate with a male of her species and conception should be assumed to be automatic if mating is successful unless the DM has some special other plan.
Estrus cycle females will reject sexual activity at all other times.

In the menstrual system the female is essentially always in heat. From the age where sexual maturity sets in she is constantly giving off pheromones and potentially willing; causing males around her to be easily aroused if she is a suitable mate, and even more so if she finds them suitable. Menstrual animals will learn control over this so that they do not spend their entire existance mating. In fact the control tends to be so complete that they are usually not consciously aware that all these signals are being traded back and forth. However they will build social systems largely centered around mating rituals.

This is important to pregnancy because with a menstrual female conception can usually only occur on one to a few days in her cycle. Most menstrual animals will follow a cycle roughly timed to match the moon; although females who co-exist are likely to have their cycles adjust to somewhat match each other.

If intercourse happens before this short fertile period conception will only occur if live sperm is still present within those days. Note however that while this is the female's fertile zone; sperm can live for a long time within her so intercourse outside this period is no gaurantee of avoidance.

However; finding the exact time without the use of advanced technology or magic is nearly impossible. What this all means is that pregnancy is actually a lot less random that common belief tends to hold. d20 wise there are three methods to resolve the issue:

If the female is a PC it should be decided by the player and DM working in concert. If the male is a PC who takes an active role in the female's life it should again be a player and DM planned event. Otherwise the issue should be resolved by the DM as either an issue of choice or using the system below:

If the female's cycle is known assume she is fertile roughly in the middle (four days before and after for a human). During this period a Fort save can be made by both the male and female. Two successes should result in conception.

The DC is based on age (Human):

```
[color=white]
puberty to young adult (p-18):             10
young adult to fully mature adult (19-25): 15
mature adult to middle age (26-35):        20
beyond this (35+):                         25
post menopausal:                           50
[/color]
```
Modifiers:
+1 for each 'dose' of sperm the female accepts in the week before her day of potential conception, up to a maximum of one third of the DC.
If a participant regularly uses drugs, smokes, or drinks alcohol  -5 for both.
Steriods or anything similar -10 for both.
healthy diet +5
poor diet -5
malnurished -10
if the female leads an athletic lifestyle -5 (female only)
-5 if either party has been in a polluted physical environment for more than a day within the last 2 menstrual cycles of the female.

Unless otherwise stated each party only uses it's own modifiers.

Once again; a player should NEVER have their PC become pregnant without active player consent. While in the real world females cannot choose on the issue; in the game becoming pregnant can seriously alter the tone of a game and the issue should not be entered into lightly and certainly not involuntarily. Also remember that just because a player is willing, does not mean the character is likewise. A good player often works to complicate their PC's life just as much as the DM if not more so.



SURVIVING PREGNANCY:
The process of pregnancy is essentially similar to the mechanics of both traps and poisons.
The female must make a periodic Fort save to ensure both the child's health and her own.

Make these checks once every menstrual cycle. Or rather at the point in time the cycle would happen if she was not pregnant.

```
[color=white]
The save has a DC based on the female's age (Human):
AGE                    CR  DC
puberty (p-15):         2  12
Young Adult (16-25):    1   8
Adult (26-30):          2  12
Mature Adult (30-40):   3  16
Beyond (40+):           4  20


Modifiers:
Mother on good diet: +2
Mother on normal diet +0
Mother on poor diet: -2
Mother malnurished: -4
Mother in low stress environment: +2
Mother in normal environment: +0
Mother in high stress environment: -2
First or third Trimester: -2
[/color]
```
The Midwife profession and Lamaze Craft skills give synergy bonuses to this save. Both of these skills are class skills for Clerics, Druids, and anyone who gets all Crafts and or Professions; cross class otherwise though Experts may take them as class.
The presense of a Midwife for at least 5 hours every week during the period allows for a take 10 to be used.


On a successful roll the female gains XP according to the CR as if she had survived a trap. The pregnancy continues as normal.

Failure causes 1d6 damage to the mother and child. Which could result in miscarraige (perhaps we assume the child has 1 hit point plus Con mod of mother for these purposes).
Failure also results in fort saves for both mother and child (DC as above).
A failed save for the child results in a permanent loss of 1d4 stat points.
A failed save for the mother results in a permanent loss of 1 point to Con or Str.

If a mother loses 2 stat points throughout a pregnancy it results in a misscarraige and her womb going barren.


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## Kichwas (May 6, 2002)

This will get slotted in 'somewhere' in the pregnancy section.


ABORTION:
Some females choose to forcibly end a pregnancy. The guide deals only with the practical issues of this activity and not with it's social or moral implications. Consult your DM and your group's own mores for what alignment effects this act may or may not have on a character.

Abortion is, like pregnancy, a trap with some poison like effects.
When a pregnancy is aborted the female must make a Fort save. Use the DCs for checking on the pregnancy as above but increase them by 5. Failure results in the female taking 1d6 damage with a secondary 1d6 damage every 4 hours until death results. The female during this time is classed as 'staggered'.

A Heal check at the same DC as used above is required to stop the damage from continuing to occur. A cure spell will also end the damaging effects.

Assuming she survives the female must then make an additional save but this time at the DCs used for checking pregnancy; failure on this save causes her womb to go barren.

As a trap, abortion gives XP according to it's CR as per the chart for checking on a pregnancy. Once again remember that this is not a moral judgement but merely a mechanical one of surviving a trap.


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## Sorn (May 6, 2002)

arcady: Very nice! Love it. 


I got started on the magic items, but will take a closer look at the ones posted above before I finish up. I also need to wait on a few things since spells are still pending. Some magic items are based on certain spells, so if the spell changes, so will the item. 

As far as piercings go, I don't think we need any rules for the magic items for that. Any magic item that ignores it's usual slot costs double. Adding additional slots just like that would be a balance-breaker and I think we should avoid that. 

However, the presence of piercings on erogenous zones will have added benefits during sex (increased stimulation, etc.), so a more expensive magical ring will add to the pleasure. I'll write this up for the ring section as a special ability (similar to the way the Phallic Wand and Tentacular Staff were done). 

Speaking of which, the Tentacular Staff seems to have been voted unanimously to the Tentacle Madness, umm, I mean Hentai book, but what's the conscencus on the Phallic Wand? Since there's no way to recharge wands, I think it's a great idea and should stay, plus gives us a way to make useful magical masturbation aides...


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## 2late (May 6, 2002)

thundershot said:
			
		

> *The dreaded girdle wasn't in 3E because sex change was just added to ANY magic item as a curse.  Bwahahaha..
> *



Yes, but what scares a veteran player more, the "anything goes" drawback(which according tothe DMG vanishes if you leave the item behind) or the well known/dreaded Girdle


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## 2late (May 6, 2002)

I'd like the phallic wands to stay in the book (And this has nothing to do with the artwork I contributed  ).

Since recharging a wand is an advantage on itself, perhaps you could add a small XP-drain which occurs upon recharge and is taken from all partners involved?

Normaly creating a wand drains... 
...15Xp for level 0 spells (Rounded down to 0Xp per charge)
...60Xp for level 1 spells (Rounded down to 1Xp per charge)
...240Xp for level 2 spells (Rounded down to 4Xp per charge)
...630Xp for level 3 spells (Rounded down to 12Xp per charge)
...1200Xp for level 4 spells (24Xp per charge)

(This is the worst case scenario, the Bard so to speak).


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## Kichwas (May 6, 2002)

I wouldn't make piercings cost double. But for balance how about this:


A piercing can be used in place of any other bodily worn magic item slot.

So for each piercing you wear you can carry one less ring, bracer, belt, boots, cape, or whatever that is magical.


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## kolvar (May 7, 2002)

Wow, great input at the moment.


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## Zelda Themelin (May 7, 2002)

yep, good stuff.


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## Sorn (May 7, 2002)

Interesting idea arcady. However, that leads to balance issues. Let's assume you have 3 rings, and nothing else, so you decide to pierce your nipple and wear one of them there and the other two on your hands, but forego the cape (which you don't have to begin with). 

I'd say you could wear a ring as a piercing in lieu of one of your ring slots, but not any other item slots. Of course you can still make them slot-independant (e.g.. nipple-ring of invisibility) for double-cost and wear your regular allotment.

Or we could introduce a new spell... Piercing Needles of Alternate Placement. 

Allows the caster to pierce a body part to use a magic item outside of its regular slot (i.e. a magical ring could be worn as a belly-button ring).

All the spell gurus out there... any ideas for level, duration, XP cost, etc.


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## Merior (May 12, 2002)

Well, I posted these to the other board but i thought I might as well put them here as well. Any comments on these oh so innocent items would be appreciated. 


*Heated Elven Plate*

This suit of +1 full plate armor is designed to fit the female form like a glove and does so with remarkable comfort. Any female wearing it with no other clothing between their skin and the armor will find that they can rest perfectly well while still having the armor on and that the enchantments upon it will both clean them beneath it and also remove any need to eliminate bodily wastes.

Problems occur if this armor is worn by a female elf (of any sub-species). If such a person wears it as described above or more than an hour then the armor will give an audible 'click' as it locks. At that point only the proper command word or a _remove curse_ (from a caster of 10th level of above) will let it be removed. Once locked, the elven wearer must make a Will save (DC 11) each day or become _horny_ until the armor is removed.

_Caster Level:_ 9th; _Prerequisites:_ Craft Magic Arms and Armor, _arcane lock, bestow curse, prestidigitation, stone shape_; _Market Price:_ 16,050 gp; _Cost to Create:_ 8,025 gp + 642 XP



*Black Lacy Underwear*

This set of female underthings, made of black lace and velvet, seem to subtle enhance the wearer's 'assets' and draw the right sort of attention to them. Any female wearing these garments gains a +2 bonus to Charisma or Charisma-based skill checks against any being who would otherwise be sexually attracted to them and can see at least part of the garments.

_Caster Level:_ 5th; _Prerequisites:_ Craft Wondrous Item, _alter self_, _suggestion_; _Market Price:_ 2,000 gp; _Cost to Create:_ 1,000 gp + 80 XP


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## Anabstercorian (May 13, 2002)

*The Passionate*

_"Some people think that pleasure is magic.  They are fools.  They take the most wonderful thing in the world and corrupt it in to a lesser state.  We know better.  Pleasure is a power unlike any other, and we are its masters."_

The Passionate (always written with a capital P) are a loose organization of sexual cabalists who gain power from sexual contact directly, without using it to power sexual rituals or calling on the gods of pleasure.  They tap directly in to the nascent power of the Elemental Plane of Eros, and can, through this power, become living emblems of the ideal of passion.  They move faster, harder, and stronger.  Their beauty is unmatched.  Their touch can change someone forever.  They are the warriors of love, passion, and lust.

*Prerequisites*
*Sexual Prowess:* 8 ranks
*Feats:* Skill Focus (Sexual Prowess), Endurance
*Alignment:* Any Chaotic
*Sex Tricks:* Adaptive Lover (Any), Easy to Read, Intuitive Lover, Species Focus (Any)
*Special:* Must have visited the Elemental Plane of Eros and coupled with a Lust Elemental while there.  It is highly recommended that this requirement not be waived under any circumstances.

*Class Features:*
*Hit Die:* d10
*Base Attack Bonus:* As Fighter
*Saving Throws:* As Monk
*Class Skills, Skill Points:* As Monk + Sexual Prowess

*Class Abilities by Level:*
*1st:* Sex is Power, Sex Appeal, Passionate Heart
*2nd:* Heartwatch, Sensual Touch
*3rd:* Seductive Grace, Second Home
*4th:* Eros Strike
*5th:* Stunning Beauty
*6th:* Twisting Gaze
*7th:* Strength of Passion
*8th:* Uncontrollable Passion
*9th:* Pounding Heart
*10th:* Avatar of the Incarna

Sex is Power (Ex): A Passionate requires near-constant sexual contact in order to fuel their powers.  In order to use the abilities of any given level of Passionate, he must have had sexual contact a number of times within the last 24 hours at least equal to the level of Passionate that the ability is acquired at.  For example, to gain Sex Appeal as a virtual feat, an ability acquired at 1st level, a Passionate must have had sexual contact at least once in the last 24 hours.  If they go 24 hours without sexual contact, they lose the ability until they once more have sexual contact.
This restriction is in place because of how the Passionate fuels his abilities.  Upon completing sexual contact, the Passionate's partner becomes, in essence, a gateway to the Elemental Plane of Eros, pouring energy in to the passionate.  Because of this, if the Passionate's partner is slain, petrified, or on another plane of existence from the Passionate, then they are no longer considered to have had sexual contact with the passionate.  For example, if a Passionate has sex three times, gaining the ability Seductive Grace, and then one of his partners is killed, he immediately loses that ability, retaining only his second level abilities until he once more has sexual contact.

Sex Appeal (Su): At 1st level, a Passionate gains Sex Appeal as a virtual feat.  If he actually has the feat Sex Appeal, the bonuses gained from that feat are doubled.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Passionate Heart (Su): A Passionate gains a Competetence bonus to all sexual prowess checks equal to twice their Passionate level.  Their reputation for being sexual dynamos is easily true.

Heartwatch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to see a lifeforms sexual aura (or lackthereof) and its details.  A Passionate can acertain the sexual orientation, sexual desire, and all other relavent details of a creature's sexuality as a move equivalent action.

Sensual Touch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to helplessly daze an opponent with his caress at will.  As a standard action, he may make a melee touch attack that affects his target as the Daze cantrip unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 12 + Cha modifier.)  This is a mind affecting effect.

Seductive Grace (Su): At 3rd level, a Passionate's body is infused with small levels of pure erotic energy, giving them unnaturally beautiful grace and a remarkably flexible anatomy.  They gain a +2 bonus to Dexterity and a +4 Competence bonus to Tumble, Escape Artist, Balance, and physical Perform checks.  Additionally, they gain Dexterous Lover as a bonus sex trick.

Second Home (Sp): At 3rd level a Passionate can cast Eros Shift as a spell like ability once per day.  At 7th, they gain the ability to use this spell at will.

Eros Strike (Su): At 4th level, a Passionate learns to channel his erotic energy in to a dangerously potent form.  As a standard action once per hour, he can make a melee touch attack to slap a foe with his hand, sending a surge of eros energy through their bodies.  This energy does 4d8+Cha bonus subdual damage to the target as their mind struggles (and ultimately fails) to deal with the enormous torrent of passion flowing through it.  Targets who are rendered unconscious by this attack remain so for a number of hours equal to the damage inflicted by the attack, during which they remain in a state of erotic dream.

Stunning Beauty (Su): At 5th level, a Passionate's beauty becomes so overwhelming that it can leave mortals breathless with awe.  All targets within 30 feet of the Passionate who look directly at him are Stunned for 1 round unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 12 + Cha modifier.)  Targets of this ability, whether they make their save or not, are immune to it for one day thereafter.  If the Passionate has the Sex Appeal feat, the duration of the Stunning affect is doubled.  This is a mind affecting effect.

Twisting Gaze (Su): At 6th level, a Passionate's eyes begin to glow with sexual energy, giving him a permanent gaze attack, range of 30 feet, Will save DC 12 + Cha modifier.  Targets who fail their save against this effect are permanently rendered bisexual.

Strength of Passion (Su): At 7th level, the erotic energy filling the body of the Passionate increases, allowing them to not only move faster, but with greater power and strength.  They gain a +2 bonus to Strength and a +4 competence bonus to Jump, Climb, and Swim checks.  Additionally, they gain Powerful Lover as a bonus sex trick.

Uncontrollable Passion (Su): At 8th level, it becomes unclear whether the Passionate uses his passion or his passion uses him.  Whenever the Passionate hasn't had sexual contact a number of times at least equal to twice his Passionate level within the last 36 hours, he must immediately make a Will save (DC 20) or go in to a sexual frenzy, doing everything possible within the constraints of his alignment to have sexual contact until he no longer hasn't had sexual contact a number of times at least equal to twice his Passionate level within the last 36 hours.
On the bright side, he can inflict this same desperate passion on others with a gaze attack, igniting his eyes with erotic power.  Once per day he can activate a gaze attack for two rounds.  This gaze attack causes the victim to enter a sexual frenzy, as above, for 2d3 hours.  Will save DC 20 to resist.

Pounding Heart (Su): At 9th level, a Passionate becomes completely infused with erotic energy.  Even his metabolism is primarily powered by erotic power.  At 9th level, a Passionate no longer needs to eat, and can hold his breath for five times as long as normal, although this gives him no special protection against crushing depths of water or the depths of space.  Additionally, he gains a +2 bonus to Constitution as long as he's had sexual contact in the last hour.

Proxy of the Incarna (Su):  At 10th level, a Passionate becomes a Proxy for his patron Incarna.  Aside from becoming a representative of the Incarna and whatever authority that provides, he can ignite a Storm of Passion once per day.  This is powerful storm of erotic energy, a 20' emanation centered on the Passionate, that lasts 2d4 rounds.  Once a round, at the beginning of the Passionate's initiative, the closest target to the Passionate within the range of the emanation is affected by a mind-affecting effect determined by the Passionate's patron Incarna, unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 20).  These effects are listed as follows:
Lust: The target is compelled to forcibly mate with the closest available creature.  This effect lasts one hour.
Desire: The target's mind is clouded with her deepest fantasy, sending her in to a dreamworld of her own devising.  This knocks the target unconscious for 1d4 hours or until roused.
Love: The target immediately falls in love with the first creature it sees.  This love cannot be cured short of a Wish or Miracle and lasts 3d4 weeks.
Perversion: The target permanently takes on a random perversion, chosen by d10:
1 - Teratophilia (A dangerous monster fetish)
2 - Chromophilia (A color fetish)
3 - Sadomasochism (An enjoyment of inflicting and receiving pain in sex)
4 - Submissive/Dominant (An enjoyment of either being controlled or controlling a lover during the sex act.)
5 - Devoraphila (An eating fetish)
6 - Zoophila (A fetish for sex with non-sentient creatures not of your species)
7 - Xenophilia (A fetish for sex with sentient creatures not of your species)
8 - Necrophilia (A fetish for sex with the dead or undead)
9 - Magophila (A fetish for sex altered by magical effects)
10 - A fetish for wastes and excrements.
This fetish can cured with a Remove Curse, Heal, Restoration, Wish, Miracle, or any healing effect of equal or higher power.

*COMPLETED*


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## Anabstercorian (May 14, 2002)

BUMP - Keeping the naughty thread on the first page at all costs!


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## Zelda Themelin (May 14, 2002)

Interesting PrC Anab. 

Mmh, I suppose you have ideas for those missing 8ht, 9th and 10th lv abilities+


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## Anabstercorian (May 14, 2002)

I do indeed!  Just be patient.  I'll finish it soon.


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## Anabstercorian (May 14, 2002)

*Reposting old work to a newer location [Is someone taking all of this down?]*

*The Elemental Plane of Eros:*
It is where wet dreams come to life.
It is where angels go on their honeymoons.
It is where pleasure is made manifest.
The plane Eros is not the origin of all things sexual, passionate, and lustful, but it is where most of them end up eventually.  The plane appears, for the most part, as a vast translucent cloud of pastel smoke, containing small 'sub planes' that could hold almost anything.  Many quasi-deities make their homes here, and all who know how to reach this place enjoy spending time here.
The plane Eros is primarily a transitive plane - It can only be accessed through a spell requiring an intense sexual ritual or through Gates cast using an intense sexual ritual.  HOWEVER, using another spell, you can shunt yourself from Eros in to any spot in the multiverse where an erotic act of any kind is occuring.  This tends to ruin the mood for the poor people you barge in on, but sacrifices must be made for proper travel arrangements through the multiverse.

There are many locations worth visiting in Eros, either for entertainment or because there are things there worth killing and looting.

*Lady Larlo's House:* Home of the patron quasi-deity of harlots, hookers, gigolos, and other lovers for hire, Lady Larlo.  Anyone is welcome here, for a price, be they mortal or angel or fiend.  Throughout most of the universe, this House is considered neutral ground - but the area around it is not.  If you're going to enter this House, you'll have to get past the near-constant brawl between juxtaposed outsiders on the front porch.  It's said to be worth a thousand deaths to enter this place.
Pillow talk holds many secrets, and if you want dirt on an Outsider of any status, one of the performers here will likely talk - Be warned, though, for Larlo dissapproves of gossip, and she deals with spies harshly.

*The Garden of Eden:* Home of certain major deities of fertility and love, this jungle planet is filled with benevolent animals, beautiful plant life, and very friendly natives.  The people here can be of any race but are always neutral in alignment, outgoing, and welcoming to strangers.  They aren't unusually sexual - This is a place of fertility and life more than lust and debauchery.  Of course, they like strangers.  One advantage to this place is that sexually transmitted diseases cannot be transferred in the Garden of Eden.

*The Scriptorium of the Bard:* This Eladrin outpost is the finest, largest, and most complete library of erotica in the universe.  Guarded by Lillends, it stores the finest, the most beautiful, and the most perfect.

*The Vault of Perversion:* The devils keep an outpost here that is the dark shadow of the Scriptorium of the Bard.  It's much larger, and contains a copy of every piece of pornography ever painted, etched, spoken, written, or formed of illusion.  It has everything the Scriptorium has, but also infinite pieces of worthless, poorly drawn art, disturbing, unnatural perversion, or vile, disgusting malefaction.  It's a vast trove of goods, but few are willing to search for their desires in this hell hole.
As for the question, "Why?"  Their answer is simply, "Because it can be done."

*The Savage Plains:* This vast savannah is the incarnation of masculinity, forcing all who exist there to strive to fight harder, run faster, think quicker, and be stronger than ever before, every day, or fall behind.  The environment is fiercely dangerous and dampens magic greatly, but those who survive the trials get the Nymphs every evening...  On the downside, this sheer masculinity of this savage landscape imposes itself on any woman unlucky enough to be stranded here, eventually dooming them to eternity as one of the Nymphs.

*The Incarna*

The incarna are the elemental lords of Eros, the purest incarnations of eroticisms various manifestations.  They are massive and godlike in their power, having fed off of aeons of sexuality throughout the multiverse.
Their appearance is varying, and they usually appear completely different to different people.

*Lust:* Lust is the oldest, most primal of the Incarna.  It is never without a victim, and will only discard one of its victims upon sighting a new one.  Very few have survived its attention - It is amoral and depraved.  It has been likened to a wildfire, eternally consuming.
It's appearance is different to all who look at it.  Generally, it appears as a devastatingly beautiful, immensely strong, and imposing member of the viewers species, always naked, always aroused.

*Love:* Love is not as strong as Lust, but has more influence in the world at large, being more charismatic and more intelligent.  It seeks new lovers to bring joy and happiness to, but is viciously dangerous to those who spern its attention.  It has been likened to the sea - Potentially nuturing and potentially lethal.
It's appearance is different to all who look at it.  Generally, it appears as a sweet and loving member of the viewers species, not necessarily attractive, but always something you want to be near.

*Desire:* Desire simply seeks beautiful and lovely creatures to add to its collection of lovers.  It is passionate and intense, always searching for someone new and exhilirating, and never discards something it deems entertaining.  It has been likened to the wind, fickle and always moving.
Desire always appears as whatever would appear most attractive to the viewer.  Given that it picks from all possible forms of any kind anywhere, most are desperate to get it on with Desire.

*Perversion:* Perversion is a dark thing, always looking for a new seasoning for the act of coupling, a new way, a new quirk to add.  Anything different is good as far as it's concerned, no matter how horrible, bleak, unnatural, confusing, or just plain weird it seems to mortals.  It has been likened to the earth, containing rare and beautiful gems and metals in a vast mass of dirt.
Perversion has no fixed form, and always appears as an embodiment of the deepest, most hidden kink the viewer has, raised to the highest power.

*New Spells*

*Eros Shift*
Alteration (Erotic)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S (Lots of S), M
Casting Time: Full Round Action
Range: Personal and Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You instantly transport yourself and whoever you touch to the Elemental Plane of Eros.  This is a permanent shift, and offers no special protection from either the effects of the plane or its denizens.  You cannot shift to any specific point in Eros, but always land in the fog.
In order to cast this spell, you must have reached sexual climax at least once in the last minute, and one other time before that in the last ten minutes.
Alternatively, if this spell is cast while on the plane of Eros, you can immediately teleport to any plane in the Multiverse you have either previously been to (In which case there is no chance for error at all) or you have read or heard about (in which case there is a percentage chance of error as though you were casting Teleport.)  However, you have no control over exactly what spot on said plane you land on, and will always teleport to a spot where sexual activity is occuring.


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## Lily Inverse (May 15, 2002)

Two things.  I played opposite Tanilen with the Recondite, and I made some improvements.  Here it is:

Recondite

Huge Outsider (Chaotic)
Hit Dice: 17d8+68 (144 hp)
Initiative: +5
Speed: fly 40 ft. (good)
AC: 24 (+11 Natural, +5 Dex, -2 Size)
Attacks: 6 Slams +22 Melee
Damage: Slam 1d4+5
Face/Reach: 10 ft. by 10 ft. / 20 ft.
Special Attacks: Improved Grab, Mass Grapple, Coital energy Drain, Coital Assimilation, Psionics
Special Qualities: DR 20/+2, SR 25, Tactile Telepathy, fixed shape, archetypical shape
Saves: Fort +14, Ref +15, Will +13
Abilities: Str 20, Dex 21, Con 18, Int 19, Wis 16, Cha 17
Skills: Sexual Prowess +30, Diplomacy +26, Listen +26, Search +25, Spot +26, Hide +20, Bluff +24, Intimidate +24, Move Silently +26, Knowledge (any two) +25
Feats: Skills Focus (Sexual Prowess), Skill focus (Diplomacy), Alertness, Dodge, Mobility, Multiattack
_________________________________________
Climate/Terrain: Any land or underground
Organization: Solitary, cluster (2-4), or thicket (5-12)
Challenge Rating:
Treasure: None
Alignment: Always Chaotic Neutral
Advancement: 18-22 HD (Huge); 23-28 HD (Gargantuan); 29+ HD (Colossal) 

Recondite (also called Mystique) are unnatural tentacled creatures from far off realms of dream. They force themselves on others to further their mysterious causes.

Recondite appear as spheres 10 feet in diameter made of thick, sinuous, curling tentacles that are anywhere from an inch to a foot across. Within this shell is an inner form called an epicenter that is the true body of the Recondite. The epicenter has no true form, and often appears as an extremely attractive member of the species it is currently being viewed by. However, the epicenter can appear as anything - something attractive, like a nymph, to something horrid, like a gibbering mouther, to something odd, like a chair.

The causes of the recondite are mysterious, and unknown to lesser creatures, but for some reason they are advanced by the use of depraved rituals of defilement and rape on physical creatures many species and genders. These rituals leave them twisted perversions of their former selves and slaves to the will of the recondite.

The recondite do not speak a language, but commincate through a vast net of their tactile telepathy. Their webs fill their home dimension like vines and allow any given recondite to contact any other given recondite within minutes.

Combat

In combat, a recondite will attempt to snatch one victim and use their psionic powers to shift back to their home place and use their Coital Assimilation on the victim. Because of this, it is almost impossible to defeat a recondite as they almost never remain in place long enough to be a victim of any attack. If prevented from leaving by a dimensional anchor spell, they use their Rainbow Pattern ability to distract as many attackers as they can and Energy Drain the rest, snatching up as many as they can for later use. If somehow prevented from all of these, they grapple to kill.  If presented with a situation that seems dangerous or deadly, however, they often will simply leave

Improved Grab: In order to use this ability a recondite must hit an enemy of up to Large size with one of their Slam attacks.

Mass Grapple: For every successful Slam attack against a target in a round, a recondite gains a +1 circumstance bonus to their grapple checks against that target in that round.

Coital Energy Drain: Upon successfullly causing a target that to reach orgasm, a recondite may inflict a negative level upon the target. The Fortitude save to remove these negative levels is 21. Futhermore, this save may only be attempted when the victim has not had contact with a Recondite for 24 hours or if the Recondite permits it.  A recondite will not, as a rule, inflict more negative levels than the target has levels, seeking only to reduce the target to an easily manageable opponent.

Coital Assimilation: By, in conjunction with at least three other recondite, bringing a victim to orgasm at least five times within one hour and reducing the victim to 1st level using their Coital Energy Drain, may apply the Recondite Pawn template to the victim if applicable.

Psionics: Recondits can manifest the following powers as  a 15th level Psion:  At Will – Rainbow Pattern,, Plane Shift (To Etheral and home plane only  )1 / Minute – Induce Pleasure, Mind Probe.  3 / Day – Charm Monster, Bliss

Tentacle Adaption: A Recondite is capable of shrinking or expanding its tentacles to be an appropriate size for any potential victim  

Tactile Telepathy: A recondite can telepathcially communicate with any creature that has a language that it is touching.  In addition, this raises the DC of any Psionic power that the Recondite chooses to manifest against any victim it is in contact with by four.

Hypnotic Epicenter: By shaping their Epicenters into something the individual would find attractive, the creature can implant suggestions as if constantly using a Hypnosis power upon a subdued victim.  In order for this to work properly, the victim must either be charmed, exhausted, assimiliated, or (in truly bizarre cases) willing.

Fixed Shape: Recondite cannot polymorph themselves, shapechange themselves, or be changed in shape by others.

Archetypical Shape: No other creatures can polymorph or shapechange themselves (or anyone else) in to a recondites shape, or anything approximating it.


Secondly, I'd like to propose the following mechanic regarding the "Savage Plains" in the post above:

Immediately upon entering the plain, and for every hour spent within it, female humanoids mus make a Willpower saving throw at DC 20 + 1 for each hour.  Each failed saving throw has the following effects:

1 failed:  Woman has effective Wisdom score reduced by 2(minimum 3), Charisma enhanced by 2, and feels reluctant to take any action if unsupported by someone else (preferably male, but an unaffected woman can help)

2 failed:  Woman has effective Wisdom score reduced by 4, Charisma increased by 4, and treats any orders by males as if they had used a Command spell on her.

3 failed:  Woman's effective Wisdom reduced by 6, Charisma increased by 6, and begins to feel compelled to move towards the nearest Nymph colony. (More later)

4 failed:  Effective Wisdom reduced by 8, Charisma increased by 8, and will obey any non-lethal, non-violent order from any male unless a save against the current plane DC is made.

5 failed:  Effective Wisdom reduced by 10, Charisma increased by 10, and she feels compelled to both go naked and is striken with the nymphomania insanity.  

6 failed:  The woman becomes a Nymph of Eros (Retaining her own modified Wisdom and Charisma scores, and using her old ones as the basis for the remainder of her new base scores), and is permanently bound to the plane.  Her identity is lost, and no force short of the Alter Reality sailent abiility can reverse it.  (For those without the new Dieties and Demigods, a Miracle spell to summon the god directly, followed by a LONG quest, might do the trick)





Oh, yes, and First Post!  ^_^


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## Lily Inverse (May 15, 2002)

Nymph Colonies

Within the Savage Plains, there are places of wild beauty, gentleness, and nurturing that seem like small pieces of paradise within the chaotic test that is the domain.  Men feel intense disgust (Will Save DC 20 every round or move away at maximum movement rate) upon nearing these places.  Women who step within them fall prey to greater peril than outside, as these are the homes of the Nymphs of Eros who populate the Savage Plain.

The Nymph Colonies have a peaceful aura to them that actually reduces the hourly Will save required of women in the outside doman to 10 + 1 per hour.  However, upon entering many women feel compelled to enter an enchanted slumber at the normal difficulty for the plains, as if they were outside.  If they fall asleep here, they forfeit all subsequent saving throws until nightfall, nearly always bringing them fully under the thrall of the masculine force.  

If a woman enters at night, then the few nymphs who always remain behind begin offering her food and comfort, promising shelter from the world.  If she believes them, she is also likely to doom herself.  Each fruit is infused with the overwhelming masculinity of the plains, and forces her to make a saving throw as if a full hour had just passed.  Even if she succeeds at this, she must also make a Fortitude saving throw at DC 20 or fall into an enchanted slumber, with the penalties outlined above.

(For the Nymphs of Eros, use the Oat Nymph, but remove the Intoxicating Beauty trait and add the Lust Creature template)



PS:  I posted this really late, so please excuse any rough edges on the two posts above.


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## Anabstercorian (May 15, 2002)

*Here comes a new challenger!*

This is great work, Lily!  My compliments, especially on the Recondite.  Welcome to the crew.
So, you've play-tested the Recondite?  What are your experiences?


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## Lily Inverse (May 15, 2002)

*Blush*  Gosh, thanks.

Tanilen pretty much summed up the experience before.  In the old state I found them to be pretty typical tentacle "Tentacle monsters."   They're a bit too powerful for casual gaming, but I can actually see how one of these critters, particularly a "rogue" Recondite, might even become the focus of a serious campaign.

As for the other stuff, I just noticed a wide gap and made something up to fill it ad-hoc.  Suggestions, comments, and crticisms welcome.


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## Sorn (May 15, 2002)

Welcome to the team! Great job. Really liked it.

On related news, my friend Dave is finally getting the ball rolling on the write-up for the Harem Guild. Also, I got the latest issue of Dragon yesterday, and it includes a Guild-Generator, so once he's done, I'll create the statblock for the guild. (I just glanced over it since I had to head out to stage combat practice, but what I saw looked very promising). 

Most of my progress with the magic items has been lost due to a hard-drive crash. I'll have to see what I can recover and then I'll get going full bore on that again.


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## Zelda Themelin (May 16, 2002)

Nice to have you here Lily. 

Sorn, hopefully you can save something (I know how much headacho those hard-drive crashes can be).

So, Harem Guild will be soon up. Nice, I've been waiting.


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## Fox Lee (May 17, 2002)

*Eheh... ^^;;*

Now witness Fox's ability to completely forget that she posted this message, or to come back to check it ^^;; But, thanks! Glad you like my stuff ^^


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## Fox Lee (May 17, 2002)

*Fare belated opinions...*

Just an opinion - Heated Elven Plate and Black Lacy Underwear. Let 'em work on males too; there's no reason they shouldn't, particularly the armour, since the main point of it seems be that it's skin-tight (though I'd <I>personally</I> vastly prefer to see a guy in black lacy underwear than armour >8D ). I mean, sure, talk about them like they're made for women (which they most probably are), but don't <I>limit</I> their effects to females.


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## Fox Lee (May 17, 2002)

*Grey areas*



			
				Anabstercorian said:
			
		

> *The Savage Plains:* This vast savannah is the incarnation of masculinity, forcing all who exist there to strive to fight harder, run faster, think quicker, and be stronger than ever before, every day, or fall behind.  The environment is fiercely dangerous and dampens magic greatly, but those who survive the trials get the Nymphs every evening...  On the downside, this sheer masculinity of this savage landscape imposes itself on any woman unlucky enough to be stranded here, eventually dooming them to eternity as one of the Nymphs.




Hmmm... I'm having sort of sticky gender issues here. The main example I'm thinking of at the moment is Khaira, my elven barbarian; she's at least a little more masculine than the next member of the party, and she must be about fifty times as manly as her two love interests ^^;  On the other hand... Lloryn, my elven sorcerer, completely bisexual and quite possibly the most feminine D&D character I've ever seen played. The sort of person who gives you the impression that he was only born with a penis by accident. I just can't imagine that if they both walked onto this plane, Lloryn wouldn't end up being somebody's sex toy while Khaira stuck it out with the worst of the testosterone-charged nutters.

Does the plane identify the gender of somebody on it purely based on their body, or does it consider every level - mental, physical, spiritual, so forth? I tend to think the latter is more likely - and in that case, there would be (albeit only a few, but definitely a few) cases where somebody who was born female would be presumed male, vice-versa.

Perhaps it's sort of an overall thing that I'm hoping for - quite a few things in the book seem to at least partially rely on gender, where in a lot of cases my male characters would fit better with the female effects and females with male effects. Particularly effects on a physical level - Lloryn, for one, was almost inevitably taken to be female on sight, looking FAR more like a girl than a boy.

Perhaps it might be an idea to allow for these anti-stereotype cases; a note somewhere that the "effective" gender may not always be the same as the physical or apparent one.


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## Lily Inverse (May 17, 2002)

*Erm.....*

Since I seem to have largely taken over the "Savage Plains" I'll see if I can't re-work what I wrote to make it work like that....though Anabaster certainly has final say.


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## Lily Inverse (May 17, 2002)

*A bit of an idea*

Considering the work I did on the Savage Plains, it might work out better to split it (perhaps with another region or two) off into entirely separate demiplanes linked directly TO Eros.  Off-hand I think the Recondite home plane might deserve that treatment.


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## Anabstercorian (May 17, 2002)

Fox Lee, Lily, these ideas are great - Especially the gender "on all levels" thing.  On the other hand, what would actually *happen* to the masculine women and feminine men?  Would their gender actually change, or would they just get more butch/froo-froo?

Lily, I give you leave to do whatever you want with the Savage Plains.  I have dibs on the Recondite Void, tho.


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## Lily Inverse (May 17, 2002)

I was thinking that in those "Exceptional" cases the changes might be slower, but the end result would be an eventual gender-shift, at which point the effects are more normal.  Probably somewhat faster in the case of the feminine males, because they aren't as likely to put up a fight


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## spoffy (May 19, 2002)

Hi everyone . . . my friend Lily told me about this thread, and encouraged me to post something I came up with on my free time, so here you go.  Maybe you'll find this to be useful or thought-provoking or something.    As I have yet to play a full game in 3E rules, the actual mechanics here might need a little revising.

Hulberry

The Hulberry (also known as the Fuddleberry or Virgin's Bane) is a unique plant that contains a natural aphrodesiac.  Thought to have been created by a wizard many years ago, it apparently escaped by cross-pollinating with wild blueberries and now grows in mountainous regions throughout the land.  Hulberries resemble blueberries in size and shape, though they are a rich red color that deepens as they become ripe.  They have a pleasantly tart flavor and may be used in jellies, juices, pies and other desserts.

Eaten raw, the berries make it easier for a character to become Aroused.  The effect is similar to a poison, with an onset period of approximately one hour after ingestion.  Instead of taking damage, however, the affected character receives a penalty to their Will save for purposes of resisting arousal checks.  The effect is generally mild, -2 or so per "dose" (roughly one handful).

Hulberry Wine: This potent drink, favored by the elves, combines the effects of hulberries with those of alcohol.  Thus, anyone drinking hulberry wine will start to become aroused at the same time they begin to lose their inhibitions.  Overindulging in Hulberry Wine is not advised unless one is not easily embarrassed.

Due to the increased potency of Hulberry wine, affected characters receive a -3 to their will save for the purpose of resisting arousal checks.  Furthermore, the wine itself forces an arousal check every few minutes (more often as the character drinks more) and characters are also faced with the consequences of being drunk as per d20 rules.

There you go.  Comments and the like are welcome, of course.


-- Spoffy


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## Anabstercorian (May 20, 2002)

*Nice*

Good job, Spoffy. ^_^  Praise to thee.  It's a nice piece of work - A little naughty while not being truly offensive.  I love the nickname - "Virgin's Bane."  That's funny. 

Anyhoo, I've completed the Passionate class.  You can see it on the main House Rules board.


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## Lily Inverse (May 28, 2002)

*Bump!*

Mustn't let the naughtiest thread on the boards die!


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## Fox Lee (May 29, 2002)

Anabstercorian said:
			
		

> *Fox Lee, Lily, these ideas are great - Especially the gender "on all levels" thing.  On the other hand, what would actually happen to the masculine women and feminine men?  Would their gender actually change, or would they just get more butch/froo-froo? *




Oooh, excellent! I hadn't even _thought_ of a straight-out gender shift - that could be incredibly fun! *wicked laughter*


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## Anabstercorian (May 29, 2002)

*Hee hee*

Yeah, I thought it could be interesting.  I'm taking advantage of the board-dump to rework the Passionate a bit.  I think it'll come together QUITE nicely.  I'm trying to give it a bit more flavor.


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## Anabstercorian (May 30, 2002)

Here it is!  Enjoy.

*The Passionate*

_"Some people think that pleasure is magic.  They are fools.  They take the most wonderful thing in the world and corrupt it in to a lesser state.  We know better.  Pleasure is a power unlike any other, and we are its masters."_

The Passionate (always written with a capital P) are a loose organization of sexual cabalists who gain power from sexual contact directly, without using it to power sexual rituals or calling on the gods of pleasure.  They tap directly in to the nascent power of the Elemental Plane of Eros, and can, through this power, become living emblems of the ideal of passion.  They move faster, harder, and stronger.  Their beauty is unmatched.  Their touch can change someone forever.  They are the warriors of love, passion, and lust.
The Passionate are divided in to four cults, each worshipping, and drawing power from, a different Incarna.  In this manner, they are not dissimilar to Clerics.  The Passionate gain slightly different powers depending on which Incarna they worship, and must undergo slightly different initiation rites to gain the favor of the Incarna.  Despite this, all four cults of Passionate stick together, willingly (and frequently) having sexual contact with each other in order to fuel their abilities.  Together, the Passionate are an imposing force, but alone they are vulnerable.  Because of this, when traveling they frequent the company of like minded individuals, preferably powerful ones.
As an organization, the Passionate are generally concerned only with themselves.  When they do become involved in a political situation, it is generally to undo some act that they believe to be an affront to their Incarna.  Whenever a law dictates arranged marriage, the followers of Love will be there.  Whenever young lovers turn away from their desire in fear of the consequences, the followers of Desire will be there.  Whenever sex is deemed a sin outright, the followers of Lust will be there.  Whenever the perverse or depraved deny their own minds for the fear of cruel punishment, the followers of Perversion will be there.  They can't change the world overnight, but that doesn't stop them from trying.

*Prerequisites*
*Sexual Prowess:* 8 ranks
*Feats:* Skill Focus (Sexual Prowess), Endurance
*Alignment:* Any Chaotic
*Sex Tricks:* Adaptive Lover (Any), Easy to Read, Intuitive Lover, Species Focus (Any)
*Special:* Must have visited the Elemental Plane of Eros and coupled with a Lust Elemental while there.  It is highly recommended that this requirement not be waived under any circumstances.
*Special:* If a follower of Lust, the aspiring Passionate must take part in an orgy lasting at least a full day with other Passionates who follow Lust.  If a follower of Desire, the aspiring Passionate must seduce and make love to a complete stranger twice in one day.  If a follower of Love, the aspiring Passionate must hook up at least two couples, and those couples must truly fall in love.  If a follower of Perversion, the aspiring Passionate must have at least two distinct sexual perversions.

*Class Features:*
*Hit Die:* d8
*Base Attack Bonus:* As Cleric
*Saving Throws:* As Bard
*Class Skills, Skill Points:* As Monk + Sexual Prowess

*Class Abilities by Level:*
*1st:* Sex is Power, Sex Appeal, Passionate Heart
*2nd:* Heartwatch, Sensual Touch
*3rd:* Seductive Grace
*4th:* Eros Strike
*5th:* Stunning Beauty
*6th:* Touch of the Passionate
*7th:* Strength of Passion
*8th:* Uncontrollable Passion
*9th:* Pounding Heart
*10th:* Proxy of the Incarna, Eyes of the Passionate

Sex is Power (Ex): A Passionate requires near-constant sexual contact in order to fuel their powers.  In order to use the abilities of any given level of Passionate, he must have had sexual contact a number of times within the last 24 hours at least equal to the level of Passionate that the ability is acquired at.  For example, to gain Sex Appeal as a virtual feat, an ability acquired at 1st level, a Passionate must have had sexual contact at least once in the last 24 hours.  If they go 24 hours without sexual contact, they lose the ability until they once more have sexual contact.
This restriction is in place because of how the Passionate fuels his abilities.  Upon completing sexual contact, the Passionate's partner becomes, in essence, a gateway to the Elemental Plane of Eros, pouring energy in to the passionate.  Because of this, if the Passionate's partner is slain, petrified, or on another plane of existence from the Passionate, then they are no longer considered to have had sexual contact with the passionate.  For example, if a Passionate has sex three times, gaining the ability Seductive Grace, and then one of his partners is killed, he immediately loses that ability, retaining only his second level abilities until he once more has sexual contact.

Sex Appeal (Su): At 1st level, a Passionate gains Sex Appeal as a virtual feat.  If he actually has the feat Sex Appeal, the bonuses gained from that feat are doubled.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Passionate Heart (Su): A Passionate gains a Competetence bonus to all sexual prowess checks equal to twice their Passionate level.  Their reputation for being sexual dynamos is easily true.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Heartwatch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to see a lifeforms sexual aura (or lackthereof) and its details.  A Passionate can acertain the sexual orientation, sexual desire, and all other relavent details of a creature's sexuality as a move equivalent action.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Sensual Touch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to helplessly daze an opponent with his caress at will.  As a standard action, he may make a melee touch attack that affects his target as the Daze cantrip unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 12 + Cha modifier.)  This is a mind affecting effect.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Seductive Grace (Su): At 3rd level, a Passionate's body is infused with small levels of pure erotic energy, giving them unnaturally beautiful grace and a remarkably flexible anatomy.  They gain a +2 bonus to Dexterity and a +4 Competence bonus to Tumble, Escape Artist, Balance, and physical Perform checks.  Additionally, they gain Dexterous Lover as a bonus sex trick.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Eros Strike (Su): At 4th level, a Passionate learns to channel his erotic energy in to a dangerously potent form.  As a standard action once per hour, he can make a melee touch attack to slap a foe with his hand, sending a surge of eros energy through their bodies.  The target must make a Will save DC 12 + Cha mod or fall unconscious for 2d4 hours, during which they remain in a state of erotic dream.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Stunning Beauty (Su): At 5th level, a Passionate's beauty becomes so overwhelming that it can leave mortals breathless with awe.  All targets within 30 feet of the Passionate who look directly at him are Stunned for 1 round unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 12 + Cha modifier.)  Targets of this ability, whether they make their save or not, are immune to it for one day thereafter.  If the Passionate has the Sex Appeal feat, the duration of the Stunning affect is doubled.  This is a mind affecting effect.  This power cannot be deactivated, but the Passionate can prevent others from seeing him using a heavy cloak or other highly modest garment.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Touch of the Passionate (Su): At 6th level, a Passionate is blessed by their patron Incarna, gaining the ability to permanently change those whom they make love to in to forms more pleasing to their masters.  This ability can be suppressed or reactivated by the Passionate at will, and is activated by having sexual contact (as defined previously) with the target.  Will save DC 12 + Cha mod to resist.  All alterations last 2d4 days.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.
_Love:_ The target is filled with love, becoming one step less hostile towards all characters (Indifferent to Friendly, Friendly to Helpful.)  Player characters are encouraged to role play this effect but suffer no other consequences.
_Desire:_ The target immediately acquires the Sex Appeal feat if they didn't have it already.
_Lust:_ The target immediately becomes cabable of being physically attracted to all genders and species, even ones wildly different from their own species.
_Perversion:_ The target immediately acquires a random sexual perversion, chosen at random by either the random perversion table, the DM, or the relevent player.

Strength of Passion (Su): At 7th level, the erotic energy filling the body of the Passionate increases, allowing them to not only move faster, but with greater power and strength.  They gain a +2 bonus to Strength and a +4 competence bonus to Jump, Climb, and Swim checks.  Additionally, they gain Powerful Lover as a bonus sex trick.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Uncontrollable Passion (Su): At 8th level, it becomes unclear whether the Passionate uses his passion or his passion uses him.  Whenever the Passionate hasn't had sexual contact a number of times at least equal to twice his Passionate level within the last 36 hours, he must immediately make a Will save (DC 20) or go in to a sexual frenzy, doing everything possible within the constraints of his alignment to have sexual contact until he no longer hasn't had sexual contact a number of times at least equal to twice his Passionate level within the last 36 hours.
On the bright side, he can inflict this same desperate passion on others with a gaze attack, igniting his eyes with erotic power.  Once per day he can activate a gaze attack for two rounds.  This gaze attack causes the victim to enter a sexual frenzy, as above, for 2d3 hours.  Will save DC 20 + Cha mod to resist.  This is a mind-affecting ability.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability, but the Passionate's own addiction is inescapable.

Pounding Heart (Su): At 9th level, a Passionate becomes completely infused with erotic energy.  Even his metabolism is primarily powered by erotic power.  At 9th level, a Passionate no longer needs to eat, and can hold his breath for five times as long as normal, although this gives him no special protection against crushing depths of water or the depths of space.  Additionally, he gains a +2 bonus to Constitution as long as he's had sexual contact in the last hour.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Proxy of the Incarna (Su):  At 10th level, a Passionate becomes a Proxy for his patron Incarna, gaining the authority to command other Passionate and act as a representative of his Patron.  Additionally, the effects of the Passionate's Touch of the Passionate ability are now permanent.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability, but the status of Proxy is not.

Eyes of the Passionate (Su): At 10th level, a Passionate gains a potent gaze attack that he can activate and deactivate at will.  This gaze attack exactly duplicates the effects of Touch of the Passionate, except that it is not rendered permanent by Proxy of the Incarna.  It has a range of 30 feet.  This power is usually accompanied by eyes that glow in a constantly shifting spectrum, but this can be suppressed by the Passionate should he so choose.


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## Lily Inverse (Jun 1, 2002)

*Nice idea, but....*

There are some real problems with it in a "normal" campaign

_Sex is Power (Ex): A Passionate requires near-constant sexual contact in order to fuel their powers. In order to use the abilities of any given level of Passionate, he must have had sexual contact a number of times within the last 24 hours at least equal to the level of Passionate that the ability is acquired at. For example, to gain Sex Appeal as a virtual feat, an ability acquired at 1st level, a Passionate must have had sexual contact at least once in the last 24 hours. If they go 24 hours without sexual contact, they lose the ability until they once more have sexual contact.
This restriction is in place because of how the Passionate fuels his abilities. Upon completing sexual contact, the Passionate's partner becomes, in essence, a gateway to the Elemental Plane of Eros, pouring energy in to the passionate. Because of this, if the Passionate's partner is slain, petrified, or on another plane of existence from the Passionate, then they are no longer considered to have had sexual contact with the passionate. For example, if a Passionate has sex three times, gaining the ability Seductive Grace, and then one of his partners is killed, he immediately loses that ability, retaining only his second level abilities until he once more has sexual contact._

This means that a 10th level Passionate needs to find and have sex with ten people EVERY DAY to maintain their abilities.  Think about that for a second.  Out in the wilderness, with no more than four or five companions.....This gets even worse later.  I'd recommend allowing someone to function as one contact per every four levels of the character.  

_Sex Appeal (Su): At 1st level, a Passionate gains Sex Appeal as a virtual feat. If he actually has the feat Sex Appeal, the bonuses gained from that feat are doubled. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

No problems here

_Passionate Heart (Su): A Passionate gains a Competetence bonus to all sexual prowess checks equal to twice their Passionate level. Their reputation for being sexual dynamos is easily true. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

I'll wait until we have the sex rules finalized to pass judgement.  Might be too powerful.

_Heartwatch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to see a lifeforms sexual aura (or lackthereof) and its details. A Passionate can acertain the sexual orientation, sexual desire, and all other relavent details of a creature's sexuality as a move equivalent action. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

_Sensual Touch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to helplessly daze an opponent with his caress at will. As a standard action, he may make a melee touch attack that affects his target as the Daze cantrip unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 12 + Cha modifier.) This is a mind affecting effect. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

Good.

_Seductive Grace (Su): At 3rd level, a Passionate's body is infused with small levels of pure erotic energy, giving them unnaturally beautiful grace and a remarkably flexible anatomy. They gain a +2 bonus to Dexterity and a +4 Competence bonus to Tumble, Escape Artist, Balance, and physical Perform checks. Additionally, they gain Dexterous Lover as a bonus sex trick. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

Erm.....wow.  +5 to two combat-based skills and another extremely useful one as an 8th level character.  I'd make the skill bonus a +2 also.

_Eros Strike (Su): At 4th level, a Passionate learns to channel his erotic energy in to a dangerously potent form. As a standard action once per hour, he can make a melee touch attack to slap a foe with his hand, sending a surge of eros energy through their bodies. The target must make a Will save DC 12 + Cha mod or fall unconscious for 2d4 hours, during which they remain in a state of erotic dream. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

Again....wow.  The DC might not be great, but this is still pretty powerful.  Probably not TOO much though.  If you reversed this with the previous one I'd consider it balanced enough/

_Stunning Beauty (Su): At 5th level, a Passionate's beauty becomes so overwhelming that it can leave mortals breathless with awe. All targets within 30 feet of the Passionate who look directly at him are Stunned for 1 round unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 12 + Cha modifier.) Targets of this ability, whether they make their save or not, are immune to it for one day thereafter. If the Passionate has the Sex Appeal feat, the duration of the Stunning affect is doubled. This is a mind affecting effect. This power cannot be deactivated, but the Passionate can prevent others from seeing him using a heavy cloak or other highly modest garment. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

Another sucker that makes this man highly impractical as an adventuring companion.   Moreover, it means that groups of Passionate simply cannot exist for a long time, as they would be constantly stunning each other every once in awhile., even with their high Will saves.

_Touch of the Passionate (Su): At 6th level, a Passionate is blessed by their patron Incarna, gaining the ability to permanently change those whom they make love to in to forms more pleasing to their masters. This ability can be suppressed or reactivated by the Passionate at will, and is activated by having sexual contact (as defined previously) with the target. Will save DC 12 + Cha mod to resist. All alterations last 2d4 days. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.
Love: The target is filled with love, becoming one step less hostile towards all characters (Indifferent to Friendly, Friendly to Helpful.) Player characters are encouraged to role play this effect but suffer no other consequences.
Desire: The target immediately acquires the Sex Appeal feat if they didn't have it already.
Lust: The target immediately becomes cabable of being physically attracted to all genders and species, even ones wildly different from their own species.
Perversion: The target immediately acquires a random sexual perversion, chosen at random by either the random perversion table, the DM, or the relevent player._

This eeems okay.

_Strength of Passion (Su): At 7th level, the erotic energy filling the body of the Passionate increases, allowing them to not only move faster, but with greater power and strength. They gain a +2 bonus to Strength and a +4 competence bonus to Jump, Climb, and Swim checks. Additionally, they gain Powerful Lover as a bonus sex trick. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

Erm....no.  Just NO.  I'd strongly consider just putting something else here, or in with the Dex bonus one above.  

_Uncontrollable Passion (Su): At 8th level, it becomes unclear whether the Passionate uses his passion or his passion uses him. Whenever the Passionate hasn't had sexual contact a number of times at least equal to twice his Passionate level within the last 36 hours, he must immediately make a Will save (DC 20) or go in to a sexual frenzy, doing everything possible within the constraints of his alignment to have sexual contact until he no longer hasn't had sexual contact a number of times at least equal to twice his Passionate level within the last 36 hours.
On the bright side, he can inflict this same desperate passion on others with a gaze attack, igniting his eyes with erotic power. Once per day he can activate a gaze attack for two rounds. This gaze attack causes the victim to enter a sexual frenzy, as above, for 2d3 hours. Will save DC 20 + Cha mod to resist. This is a mind-affecting ability. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability, but the Passionate's own addiction is inescapable._

All right, let's take our theoretical adventuing party above.  Two weeks out, and he's managed to get his companions tired of having sex every day.  Now what?  He goes berserk and either rapes the entire party or simply leaves to find more assistance elsewhere.  I just don't think you're going to convince ANYONE to do this.

_Pounding Heart (Su): At 9th level, a Passionate becomes completely infused with erotic energy. Even his metabolism is primarily powered by erotic power. At 9th level, a Passionate no longer needs to eat, and can hold his breath for five times as long as normal, although this gives him no special protection against crushing depths of water or the depths of space. Additionally, he gains a +2 bonus to Constitution as long as he's had sexual contact in the last hour. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability._

ANOTHER stat bonus? 

_Proxy of the Incarna (Su): At 10th level, a Passionate becomes a Proxy for his patron Incarna, gaining the authority to command other Passionate and act as a representative of his Patron. Additionally, the effects of the Passionate's Touch of the Passionate ability are now permanent. This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability, but the status of Proxy is not._

Permanent mental alteration to characters?  Better work in a way to undo this.

_Eyes of the Passionate (Su): At 10th level, a Passionate gains a potent gaze attack that he can activate and deactivate at will. This gaze attack exactly duplicates the effects of Touch of the Passionate, except that it is not rendered permanent by Proxy of the Incarna. It has a range of 30 feet. This power is usually accompanied by eyes that glow in a constantly shifting spectrum, but this can be suppressed by the Passionate should he so choose._

Erk.


Honestly, I admire the idea and think it's interesting, but having a requirement to permanently fuel a character's powers and having such drastic consequences for NOT fulfilling those requirements just seems to be completely unworkable.  I don't think you're going to be able to get around the problems, and I've seen you trying already.  

It might be time to scrap the entire class and start over from the beginning.


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 2, 2002)

In retrospect, you're right, Fox.  I'll rework the design a little and put more stuff together soon.


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## Lily Inverse (Jun 2, 2002)

*Ano . . .*

Did you mean me and that long post on the last page?


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 3, 2002)

I actually meant you, Lily.  Sorry.


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 4, 2002)

Okay, here it is, toned down and reworked.  Comments?  I think this one doesn't need to be scrapped and restarted.


*The Passionate*

_"Some people think that pleasure is magic.  They are fools.  They take the most wonderful thing in the world and corrupt it in to a lesser state.  We know better.  Pleasure is a power unlike any other, and we are its masters."_

The Passionate (always written with a capital P) are a loose organization of sexual cabalists who gain power from sexual contact directly, without using it to power sexual rituals or calling on the gods of pleasure.  They tap directly in to the nascent power of the Elemental Plane of Eros, and can, through this power, become living emblems of the ideal of passion.  They move faster, harder, and stronger.  Their beauty is unmatched.  Their touch can change someone forever.  They are the warriors of love, passion, and lust.
The Passionate are divided in to four cults, each worshipping, and drawing power from, a different Incarna.  In this manner, they are not dissimilar to Clerics.  The Passionate gain slightly different powers depending on which Incarna they worship, and must undergo slightly different initiation rites to gain the favor of the Incarna.  Despite this, all four cults of Passionate stick together, willingly (and frequently) having sexual contact with each other in order to fuel their abilities.  Together, the Passionate are an imposing force, but alone they are vulnerable.  Because of this, when traveling they frequent the company of like minded individuals, preferably powerful ones.
As an organization, the Passionate are generally concerned only with themselves.  When they do become involved in a political situation, it is generally to undo some act that they believe to be an affront to their Incarna.  Whenever a law dictates arranged marriage, the followers of Love will be there.  Whenever young lovers turn away from their desire in fear of the consequences, the followers of Desire will be there.  Whenever sex is deemed a sin outright, the followers of Lust will be there.  Whenever the perverse or depraved deny their own minds for the fear of cruel punishment, the followers of Perversion will be there.  They can't change the world overnight, but that doesn't stop them from trying.

*Prerequisites*
*Sexual Prowess:* 8 ranks
*Feats:* Skill Focus (Sexual Prowess), Endurance
*Alignment:* Any Chaotic
*Sex Tricks:* Adaptive Lover (Any), Easy to Read, Intuitive Lover, Species Focus (Any)
*Special:* Must have visited the Elemental Plane of Eros and coupled with a Lust Elemental while there.  It is highly recommended that this requirement not be waived under any circumstances.
*Special:* If a follower of Lust, the aspiring Passionate must have had sexual contact with at least four creature types or subtypes besides his own.  If a follower of Desire, the aspiring Passionate must have the Sex Appeal feat.  If a follower of Love, the aspiring Passionate must seduce and make love to a complete stranger twice in one day.  If a follower of Perversion, the aspiring Passionate must have at least two distinct sexual perversions.

*Class Features:*
*Hit Die:* d8
*Base Attack Bonus:* As Cleric
*Saving Throws:* As Bard
*Class Skills, Skill Points:* As Monk + Sexual Prowess

*Class Abilities by Level:*
*1st:* Sex is Power, Sex Appeal, Passionate Heart
*2nd:* Sensual Touch
*3rd:* Heartwatch
*4th:* Perfect Touch
*5th:* Burning Heart
*6th:* Touch of the Passionate
*7th:* Dazing Beauty
*8th:* Pounding Heart
*9th:* Proxy of the Incarna
*10th:* Eyes of the Passionate

Sex is Power (Ex): The abilities of a Passionate are limited by the strength of their connection to the elemental plane of Eros.  This connection is intensified and renewed by sexual contact between the Passionate and another thinking being, where sexual contact is defined as intimate physical contact ending in the orgasm of one or more parties.
All Passionate have an additional statistic measuring the strength of their connection to Eros, called Sexual Power Level, or SPL.  Normally a Passionate's maximum SPL is their Passionate level, but there are feats that can raise it.  SPL drains away at a constant rate of one SPL every two hours.  Almost all of a Passionates special class abilities require that the character have an minimum number of SPL in order to use.  For example, in order to use Perfect Touch, a Passionate must have at least 4 SPL.  Passive abilities (such as Sex Appeal or Heartwatch) immediately wink out when their SPL requirements are no longer met.
Every time a Passionate has sexual contact, his SPL increases.  The more people he has sexual contact with at once, and the higher his level, the more the SPL increases.  From level 1 to 4, he gains 1 SPL for every person he has sexual contact with.  For levels 5 to 8, this increases to 2 SPL per person, and 3 SPL for levels 9 to 10.
For example, if a Passionate were to have sexual contact with four people (besides himself) at eighth level, he would gain 8 SPL, refilling his SPL to maximum.  It would decrease by one every two hours thereafter, until 16 hours later his SPL will have dropped to zero.

Sex Appeal (Su): At 1st level, a Passionate gains Sex Appeal as a virtual feat.  If he actually has the feat Sex Appeal, the bonuses gained from that feat are doubled.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 1.

Passionate Heart (Su): A Passionate gains a Competetence bonus to all sexual prowess checks equal to twice their SPL.  Their reputation for being sexual dynamos is easily true.

Sensual Touch (Su): At 2nd level, a Passionate gains the ability to helplessly daze an opponent with his caress at will.  As a standard action, he may make a melee touch attack that affects his target as the Daze cantrip unless they succeed at a Will save DC 10 + half your SPL + Cha modifier.  This is a mind affecting effect.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 2.

Heartwatch (Su): At 3rd level, a Passionate gains the ability to see a lifeforms sexual aura (or lackthereof) and its details.  A Passionate can acertain the sexual orientation, level of sexual arousal, and all sexual perversions of any creature within 60 feet as a move equivalent action.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 3.

Eros Strike (Su): At 4th level, a Passionate learns to channel his erotic energy in to a dangerously potent form.  As a standard action once per hour, he can make a melee touch attack to caress a foe with his hand, sending a surge of eros energy through their bodies.  The target must make a Will save DC 10 + half your SPL + Cha mod or fall unconscious for 10d6 minutes, during which they remain in a state of erotic dream.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 4.

Burning Heart (Su): At 5th level, a Passionates erotic energy begins to infuse his very being, giving him an unflappable confidence and flair.  They gain a +2 Enhancement bonus to their Charisma, become immune to fear, and gain a bonus equal to half their SPL (rounded down) to skill checks involving seduction, sexual innuendo, arousing one or more creatures, or insulting a creatures sexual adequacy, potency, or performance.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 5.

Touch of the Passionate (Su): At 6th level, a Passionate is blessed by their patron Incarna, gaining the ability to permanently change those whom they make love to in to forms more pleasing to their masters.  This ability can be suppressed or reactivated by the Passionate at will, and is activated by having sexual contact (as defined previously) with the target.  Will save DC 10 + half your SPL + Cha mod to resist.  All alterations last 1d4 days.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 6.
_Love:_ The target is filled with love, becoming one step less hostile towards all characters (Indifferent to Friendly, Friendly to Helpful.)  Player characters are encouraged to role play this effect but suffer no other consequences.
_Desire:_ The target immediately acquires the Sex Appeal feat if they didn't have it already.
_Lust:_ The target immediately becomes cabable of being physically attracted to all genders and species, even ones wildly different from their own species, should the specific creature be considered attractive by its own species.
_Perversion:_ The target immediately acquires a sexual perversion, chosen at random by either the random perversion table, the DM, or the relevent player.

Stunning Beauty (Su): At 7th level, a Passionate's beauty becomes so overwhelming that it can leave mortals breathless with awe.  All targets within 30 feet of the Passionate who look directly at him are Stunned for 1 round unless they succeed at a Will save (DC 10 + half your SPL + Cha modifier.)  Targets of this ability, whether they make their save or not, are immune to it for one day thereafter.  If the Passionate has the Sex Appeal feat, the victims are Dazed for one round after being Stunned.  This is a mind affecting effect.  This power cannot be deactivated, but the Passionate can prevent others from seeing him using a heavy cloak or other highly modest garment.  Creatures or characters who have grown accustomed to a Passionate with this ability (i.e., have been exposed to it on three distinct occasions) are immune to its effects - A Passionate's long term companions inevitably learn to cope, though there is no guarentee that they won't become jealous of the Passionate's beauty.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 7.

Pounding Heart (Su): At 8th level, a Passionate becomes completely infused with erotic energy.  Even his metabolism is primarily powered by erotic power.  The Passionate no longer needs to eat or drink, and can hold his breath for five times as long as normal, although this gives him no special protection against crushing depths of water or the vacuum of space.  Additionally, he gains a +2 bonus to Constitution as long as he's had sexual contact in the last thirty minutes.  This ability is limited by Sex is Power like any other Passionate ability.

Proxy of the Incarna (Su):  At 9th level, a Passionate becomes a Proxy for his patron Incarna, gaining the authority to command other Passionate and act as a representative of his Patron.  Against all Passionate of your level or lower, as well as all other creatures with less HD than you who respect the authority of the Incarna, you gain a circumstance bonus to Diplomacy and Intimidate checks equal to your SPL.  Additionally, you always know what your patron Incarna would do in a given situation.  This abilty does not require a minimum SPL.

Eyes of the Passionate (Su): At 10th level, a Passionate gains a potent gaze attack that he can activate and deactivate at will.  This gaze attack exactly duplicates the effects of Touch of the Passionate, except that it is not rendered permanent by Proxy of the Incarna.  It has a range of 30 feet.  This power is usually accompanied by eyes that glow in a constantly shifting spectrum, but this can be suppressed by the Passionate should he so choose.  This ability requires an SPL of at least 10.


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 6, 2002)

Combination repost/bump

Eromancer

_"Love and pleasure," began Alrue, "Have a power all their own.  They can fuel happiness.  They can create life.  To some - like me - they are magic.  Learn to see the flow of love.  Learn to breathe it, and to live it.  Make it yours.  Love is all you need."_

-   The eromancer is a mage who has tasted the flow of love and pleasure across the fabric of reality.  A master of ritualistic sex magic, he can bestow great boons and heal horrible wounds with an intimate touch, creating magic through the sheer power of his erotic spirit.  Frequently acting at odds with established authority, they're also blessed with skill for the roguish arts of running away, hiding, and looking good doing it.  Although most eromancers were originally bards, who seem to have a natural affinity for the power of passion, wizards, sorcerors, clerics of the gods of pleasure, or powerful druids of certain primal sects also take this path occasionally.
-   As PC's, eromancers usually serve to "buff" other party members before engaging in significant encounters using their sexual ritual magic, as well as occasionally serving as the charismatic "face" of the party.  As NPC's, eromancers vary significantly depending on their previous class.
-   Bardic eromancers are usually wanderers leaving a trail of broken hearts and jealous lovers as they go.  Clerical eromancers are often found working secretly in nations under the control of conservative mores, shaking things up, often at great personal risk to themselves.  Druidical eromancers, occasionally called "the primal," often serve as shamans for primitive cultures.  Wizardly eromancers are often shy, bookish types looking to find something that they missed in their youth, while sorcerous eromancers often have always powered their spells with sheer erotic energy, attaining the peak of their sorcerous powers early in their teens.

-   *Prequisites:*
-   *Alignment:* Any Chaotic
-   *Spellcasting:* Ability to cast at least three 2nd level spells, one of which must be Detect Thoughts, and the ability to cast Detect Magic.
-   *Sexual Prowess:* 8 ranks.
-   *Spellcraft:* 8 ranks.
-   *Feats:* Sexual Ritual Magic, Aroused Casting
-   *Special:* Must have engaged in sexual activity with a sentient partner while under the effect of a Detect Magic spell, or have observed two sentient partners engaged in sexual activity using a Detect Magic spell.

-   *Hit Die:* d6
-   *Saving Throws:* As Bard
-   *Base Attack Bonus:* As Bard
-   *Skill Points:* 4 + Int modifier
-   *Class Skills:* Balance, Bluff, Concentration, Craft, Diplomacy, Disguise, Escape Artist, Gather Information, Hide, Knowledge (all skills, taken individually), Move Silently, Perform, Sexual Prowess, Speak Language, Spellcraft, Tumble

-   *Special Abilties By Level*
-   1st: Eros Focus
-   2nd: Master of Eromancy 1
-   3rd: Heartwatch
-   4th: Master of Eromancy 2
-   5th: Enduring Love
-   6th: Master of Eromancy 3
-   7th: Perfect Love
-   8th: Master of Eromancy 4
-   9th: Nexus Of Passion
-   10th: Master of Eromancy 5

-   *Spells Per Day*
-   1st: +1 level of Bard
-   2nd: +1 level of Bard
-   3rd: -
-   4th: +1 level of Bard
-   5th: +1 level of Bard
-   6th: -
-   7th: +1 level of Bard
-   8th: +1 level of Bard
-   9th: -
-   10th: +1 level of Bard

*Spells Per Day:* Eromancers train in a form of magic very similar to that of Bards as they go up in level.  On every level that isn't divisible by three, they are considered to gain one level of Bard for the purpose of learning new spells and spells per day only.

Eros Focus: The Difficulty Class for all saving throws for spells with the Erotic descriptor cast by you increases by +2.  This doesn't stack with Spell Focus, or any other "Focus" feat.

Master of Eromancy: Because of your burning passion, you count as more than one participant for the purpose of Sexual Ritual Magic.  Specifically, you count as your Master of Eromancy level +1.  For example, a 4th level Eromancer counts as 3 participants for the purpose of Sexual Ritual Magic.

Enduring Love: You can apply the Extend Spell feat to Sexual Ritual spells that you cast even if you don't have that feat, although it increases the spell slot required normally.  If you have the Extend Spell feat, you can apply it to your Sexual Ritual spells without increasing the level of the spell slot the spell requires.

Perfect Love: You can apply the Maximize Spell feat to Sexual Ritual spells that you cast even if you don't have that feat, although it increases the spell slot required normally.  If you have the Maximize Spell feat, you can apply it to your Sexual Ritual spells without increasing the level of the spell slot the spell requires.

Nexus of Passion: The fire of your sexuality increasing to a glorious flame that inspires others to incredible new heights of love and desire.  All participants in a Sexual Ritual spell that you cast are considered to have Master of Eromancy 1.

*Complete.*

*SEXUAL RITUAL MAGIC** [Metamagic]*
You can cast a spell as a sexual ritual, allowing you to cast a spell without losing it for the day.
*Prerequisites:* Aroused Casting
*Benefit:* You can cast a spell without expending it from your memorized spells (or spell slots per day in the case of spontaneous casters like the bard or sorceror) but you face some significant restrictions.
The spell can only be a beneficial spell, such as a healing spell or a spell that gives an enhancement bonus - It cannot cause damage, inflict negative levels, or otherwise cause harm.  The DM's discretion may be necessary.
Second, the spells casting time is extended by one full hour, during which the sexual ritual orgy or lovemaking must take place.  All participants much take part (I.E., make love, bang, screw, yiff, or whatever euphemism you prefer) from the beginning to the end of the hour, or they don't count for purposes of the number of participants in the ritual.
Third, your maximum caster level is limited to the number of participants in the ritual.  For example, if you're casting a 2nd level Bard spell, which requires you to have a Caster Level 4, you'd need to have at least four participants in the ritual.  This can also limit number of targets, variable healing or duration, and other such things.  All participants must be completely willing to take part in the ritual in order to count, although magical coercion can be used.
A Sexual Ritual Spell takes up the same spell slot as the base spell, modified by any other metamagic feats.
*Previous:* This option for spellcasting is not available.

*EXAMPLE:* Ryss, a cleric of Sharess, is busy at work healing the many wounded Dragon Knights under her care.  Spending an hour in a sexual ritual with each one, she can cast a Cure Light Wounds prepared as a sexual ritual spell with a caster level of two, healing 1d8+2 points of damage.  If she had the healing domain, she would heal 1d8+3.  She must spend the entire hour in uninterrupted activity in order to successfully cast the spell.  Once the hour is up, the spell is cast but is retained in memory.
Elsewhere, Kris is engaged in passionate activity with, oh, let's say Hennet, Mialee, and Jozan.  Kris is a Brd5/Eromancer2, and because of this, counts as two participants for Sexual Ritual magic.  There are three others besides him, so his maximum caster level is 5 for this spell - Which happens to be an Endurance spell.  It'll last 5 hours...  he has a long night ahead of him.


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 6, 2002)

*The Elemental Plane of Eros:*
It is where wet dreams come to life.
It is where angels go on their honeymoons.
It is where pleasure is made manifest.
The plane Eros is not the origin of all things sexual, passionate, and lustful, but it is where most of them end up eventually.  The plane appears, for the most part, as a vast translucent cloud of pastel smoke, containing small 'sub planes' that could hold almost anything.  Many quasi-deities make their homes here, and all who know how to reach this place enjoy spending time here.
The plane Eros is primarily a transitive plane - It can only be accessed through a spell requiring an intense sexual ritual or through Gates cast using an intense sexual ritual.  HOWEVER, using another spell, you can shunt yourself from Eros in to any spot in the multiverse where an erotic act of any kind is occuring.  This tends to ruin the mood for the poor people you barge in on, but sacrifices must be made for proper travel arrangements through the multiverse.

There are many locations worth visiting in Eros, either for entertainment or because there are things there worth killing and looting.

*Lady Larlo's House:* Home of the patron quasi-deity of harlots, hookers, gigolos, and other lovers for hire, Lady Larlo.  Anyone is welcome here, for a price, be they mortal or angel or fiend.  Throughout most of the universe, this House is considered neutral ground - but the area around it is not.  If you're going to enter this House, you'll have to get past the near-constant brawl between juxtaposed outsiders on the front porch.  It's said to be worth a thousand deaths to enter this place.
Pillow talk holds many secrets, and if you want dirt on an Outsider of any status, one of the performers here will likely talk - Be warned, though, for Larlo dissapproves of gossip, and she deals with spies harshly.

*The Garden of Eden:* Home of certain major deities of fertility and love, this jungle planet is filled with benevolent animals, beautiful plant life, and very friendly natives.  The people here can be of any race but are always neutral in alignment, outgoing, and welcoming to strangers.  They aren't unusually sexual - This is a place of fertility and life more than lust and debauchery.  Of course, they like strangers.  One advantage to this place is that sexually transmitted diseases cannot be transferred in the Garden of Eden.

*The Scriptorium of the Bard:* This Eladrin outpost is the finest, largest, and most complete library of erotica in the universe.  Guarded by Lillends, it stores the finest, the most beautiful, and the most perfect.

*The Vault of Perversion:* The devils keep an outpost here that is the dark shadow of the Scriptorium of the Bard.  It's much larger, and contains a copy of every piece of pornography ever painted, etched, spoken, written, or formed of illusion.  It has everything the Scriptorium has, but also infinite pieces of worthless, poorly drawn art, disturbing, unnatural perversion, or vile, disgusting malefaction.  It's a vast trove of goods, but few are willing to search for their desires in this hell hole.
As for the question, "Why?"  Their answer is simply, "Because it can be done."

*The Savage Plains:* This vast savannah is the incarnation of masculinity, forcing all who exist there to strive to fight harder, run faster, think quicker, and be stronger than ever before, every day, or fall behind.  The environment is fiercely dangerous and dampens magic greatly, but those who survive the trials get the Nymphs every evening...  On the downside, this sheer masculinity of this savage landscape imposes itself on any woman unlucky enough to be stranded here, eventually dooming them to eternity as one of the Nymphs.

*The Incarna*

The incarna are the elemental lords of Eros, the purest incarnations of eroticisms various manifestations.  They are massive and godlike in their power, having fed off of aeons of sexuality throughout the multiverse.
Their appearance is varying, and they usually appear completely different to different people.

*Lust:* Lust is the oldest, most primal of the Incarna.  It is never without a victim, and will only discard one of its victims upon sighting a new one.  Very few have survived its attention - It is amoral and depraved.  It has been likened to a wildfire, eternally consuming.
It's appearance is different to all who look at it.  Generally, it appears as a devastatingly beautiful, immensely strong, and imposing member of the viewers species, always naked, always aroused.

*Love:* Love is not as strong as Lust, but has more influence in the world at large, being more charismatic and more intelligent.  It seeks new lovers to bring joy and happiness to, but is viciously dangerous to those who spern its attention.  It has been likened to the sea - Potentially nuturing and potentially lethal.
It's appearance is different to all who look at it.  Generally, it appears as a sweet and loving member of the viewers species, not necessarily attractive, but always something you want to be near.

*Desire:* Desire simply seeks beautiful and lovely creatures to add to its collection of lovers.  It is passionate and intense, always searching for someone new and exhilirating, and never discards something it deems entertaining.  It has been likened to the wind, fickle and always moving.
Desire always appears as whatever would appear most attractive to the viewer.  Given that it picks from all possible forms of any kind anywhere, most are desperate to get it on with Desire.

*Perversion:* Perversion is a dark thing, always looking for a new seasoning for the act of coupling, a new way, a new quirk to add.  Anything different is good as far as it's concerned, no matter how horrible, bleak, unnatural, confusing, or just plain weird it seems to mortals.  It has been likened to the earth, containing rare and beautiful gems and metals in a vast mass of dirt.
Perversion has no fixed form, and always appears as an embodiment of the deepest, most hidden kink the viewer has, raised to the highest power.

*New Spells*

*Eros Shift*
Alteration (Erotic)
Level: Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V, S (Lots of S), M
Casting Time: Full Round Action
Range: Personal and Touch
Duration: Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Will negates
Spell Resistance: Yes

You instantly transport yourself and whoever you touch to the Elemental Plane of Eros.  This is a permanent shift, and offers no special protection from either the effects of the plane or its denizens.  You cannot shift to any specific point in Eros, but always land in the fog.
In order to cast this spell, you must have reached sexual climax at least once in the last minute, and one other time before that in the last ten minutes.
Alternatively, if this spell is cast while on the plane of Eros, you can immediately teleport to any plane in the Multiverse you have either previously been to (In which case there is no chance for error at all) or you have read or heard about (in which case there is a percentage chance of error as though you were casting Teleport.)  However, you have no control over exactly what spot on said plane you land on, and will always teleport to a spot where sexual activity is occuring.


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## kolvar (Jun 6, 2002)

sorry for not participating. I was laid off two weeks ago and had other stuff to care for. 

It seems, that this project is somehow slowing down. The deadline is only 23 days away. 
Could everyone involved give some kind of status report?


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## Anabstercorian (Jun 6, 2002)

Indeed...  Such time has past that I've forgotten our goals.  Kolvar, could you give us a rundown of our assignments and deadline again, or do you not have that info?


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## kolvar (Jun 7, 2002)

oops, assignments?
As far as I remember, 
- the pregnancy-rules should be reworked (arcady), 
- a decision about piercing magic items has to be made (all), 
- a decision on XP for abortion, pregnancy and sex (all)
- the harem guild (Sorn's friend)

after 29th of june:
- editing (Averil)
- dropping of spells (Averil, where is he anyway?)
- layouting (Sorn)

At the moment, I can not think of much more.

Does anybody know, if these board have an upper limit for posts, else we need to open a new thread soon.


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## Lily Inverse (Jun 9, 2002)

On the subjects of votes:

I'm going to say make piercing a spell that allows pierced items to work until removed, and abstain from the XP thing (Since I still don't understand the issue)

Oh, and I'll have the other stuff I've been working on done in a few days.  At that time I'll leave it up to the public whether to put it into this guide, dedicate it to Guide II, or just strike it down utterly.


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## corndemon (Jun 9, 2002)

*Re: Questions*



			
				Sorn said:
			
		

> *a) What is the official title of the book now?
> Complete Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
> Book of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
> Netbook of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge
> ...




Why not:
Folio of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge? Think of the fun!


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## kolvar (Oct 29, 2008)

I know, it is bad style to revive the dead, but I just wnated to say, that the site the guide was hosted on, is dead and I put up another site to host what I got from it (missing the newest stuff, because I was not involved in the later development). 
the guide can now be found under /index.php Guide to Unlawful Carnal Knowledge

I am open for new stuff although this version will stay 3e (Though I would host a 4E version, even when I would not be involved in the development).

Cheers


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## JadeSun7 (Nov 7, 2008)

*4th Edition of Unlawful Carnal Knowledge anyone?*

I must admit I'm interested in updating the GtUCK to DnD 4th Ed. or else beginning a new project in the same vein. I have some ideas, but I'm new to the boards and not sure where to post that's both appropriate and conducive to gathering interest in the project. If anyone reads this please respond, I think I'll need all the help I can get.


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