# Rapid-fire Crossbow from "Van Helsing" movie



## Tuzenbach (Dec 5, 2006)

Before I denounce the weapon as thoroughly unfounded & technically impossible, are there any engineers here (or anybody else, for that matter!) who can tell me whether or not that contraption actually would have worked? Thanks!


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## Moonstone Spider (Dec 5, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Before I denounce the weapon as thoroughly unfounded & technically impossible, are there any engineers here (or anybody else, for that matter!) who can tell me whether or not that contraption actually would have worked? Thanks!



He commented in the movie it was gas powered, implying that it simply worked like a modified paintball gun, continuous stream of air blowing through the "barrel" and arrows constantly falling via gravity into that airstream to be propelled out at high speed.

Under those conditions it would jam like crazy and there's really no need for crossbow arms since the gas is supplying the motive power.  Also unless you had a wagon hauling a tank of gas behind you the bolts would either have a really wimpy velocity or it'd run out of gas real fast.  It's technically possible but it'd be inferior to a normal crossbow in every way except rate of fire, and RoF doesn't help when your range is fifteen feet, your crossbow jams every fifth bolt, and the bolts frequently fail to penetrate a woolen shirt.


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## Nadaka (Dec 5, 2006)

short answer: no.

Moderate answer: very, very no.

not enough energy, the bolts would have pathetic penetration (as in about as good as a modern day paintball)

Add to that the mechanical complexity, and I think 2 very's and a no is far to generous.


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## BSF (Dec 5, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> Before I denounce the weapon as thoroughly unfounded & technically impossible, are there any engineers here (or anybody else, for that matter!) who can tell me whether or not that contraption actually would have worked? Thanks!




In our reality with our physics, no.

But hey, we are talking a reality where a bit of alchemy can turn Dr. Jeckell into Mr. Hyde, Dr Frankenstein creates his monster, gypsies hunt werewolves, a newly bitten werewolf's blood is a theoretical buffing agent for vampire 'children', lycanthropy has a fast acting cure, and you know, vampires really do exist.  In that reality, the crossbow doesn't strain my suspension of disbelief.


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## Yair (Dec 5, 2006)

It's totally impossible. But it's cool.

Kinda like vampires.


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## Matt Black (Dec 5, 2006)

Whether or not it's possible (kind of irrelevant in a fantasy game), what bugged me was that the crossbow arms didn't do anything. In fact, they didn't even move when the thing was being fired. That took away a lot of the 'cool factor' for me.


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## Kae'Yoss (Dec 5, 2006)

Matt Black said:
			
		

> Whether or not it's possible (kind of irrelevant in a fantasy game), what bugged me was that the crossbow arms didn't do anything. In fact, they didn't even move when the thing was being fired. That took away a lot of the 'cool factor' for me.




They're the thing's spoilers. Pimp my weapon and all that.


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## Whimsical (Dec 5, 2006)

Although such a crossbow would be considered "mad science", it would be nice to have even a little technobabble explanation for how it works.


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## Kae'Yoss (Dec 5, 2006)

Whimsical said:
			
		

> Although such a crossbow would be considered "mad science", it would be nice to have even a little technobabble explanation for how it works.




Sure: 

Sophisticated secret Vatican technology allows short bursts of gas to be administered to each bolt when it hits the "barrel", activating a very sensitive pressure plate.

Or the bolts are chained, and the connection is broken when they're in the position to be fired, allowing them to be affected by the gas at the very moment it is needed.


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## BlackMoria (Dec 5, 2006)

My impression of the weapon was that the gas was used to 'c.o.c.k.' the weapon, not propel the bolt.  Still, even if possible to engineer, the gas canister in the stock of the weapon would only have enough gas to 'cycle' the action a few times before pressure was too low to c.o.c.k. the weapon.... assuming of course that you could ever get enough pressure to c.o.c.k. a crossbow (which tend to be in the 100 - 150 lb pull category for modern crossbows).  

Basically impossible given the canister size and the size of the crossbow.  Still, cool as hell for visual effects.

Edit:  damn language filter


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## Imagicka (Dec 5, 2006)

Greetings...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Repeating_crossbow 

http://boards1.wizards.com/archive/index.php/t-316928.html 

As for gas-powered repeating crossbows.  Well, come on!  Oh, wait!  We're in a world of magick and technology where you can make a steam-powered clockwork juggernaught, and you have a problem with a gas-powered repeating crossbow?!


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## JoeGKushner (Dec 5, 2006)

It's like in this comic, Berserk, where Guts has a mechanical arm and a repeating crossbow ontop of it. Kills people left and right with it but it'd be terribly ineffective in game terms.

In Champions or GURPS custom built points however...


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## Jesus_marley (Dec 5, 2006)

Why are we even discussing anything that was in that crapfest of a movie? Van Helsing??? More like Van Horrible.


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## Ambrus (Dec 5, 2006)

Whimsical said:
			
		

> Although such a crossbow would be considered "mad science", it would be nice to have even a little technobabble explanation for how it works.



The thing to keep in mind is that it's technology based on Christian theology. The part that was left out in the movie's description of the item is that the 'gas' being used to propel the bolts is in fact the Holy Ghost. The clever friar had some high-faith Archbishops call down that aspect of the divine and then the engineers directed it into a pressurized canister which was then installed in the crossbow's stock. The pressure doesn't ever diminish because the power of the divine is infinite; infinite power = infinite pressure. Each bolt fired is therefore propelled through the air by the Holy Ghost itself at _Godspeed_. Quite clever really.

Edit: Oh, and the arms aren't there to propel the bolts, but rather to give the weapon the shape of a cross; the Holy Ghost can't be properly contained under pressure in anything other than a cross-shaped receptacle. That's why it's called a "*cross-bow*" in the first place.


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## BlackMoria (Dec 5, 2006)

My technobabble explaination would fit in well for Eberron - basically, the crossbow is self loading, auto cocking repeating crossbow in which the gas cannister contains a 'bound' air elemental to produce the air pressure to active the loading system.  The prod still fires the crossbow.


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## Aaron L (Dec 5, 2006)

I was just going to suggest an air elemental too   Highly compressed in a cannister, heck, it could probably produce enough force to shoot bolts through steel plate.


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## kenobi65 (Dec 5, 2006)

Ambrus said:
			
		

> The thing to keep in mind is that it's technology based on Christian theology. The part that was left out in the movie's description of the item is that the 'gas' being used to propel the bolts is in fact the Holy Ghost. The clever friar had some high-faith Archbishops call down that aspect of the divine and then the engineers directed it into a pressurized canister which was then installed in the crossbow's stock. The pressure doesn't ever diminish because the power of the divine is infinite; infinite power = infinite pressure. Each bolt fired is therefore propelled through the air by the Holy Ghost itself at _Godspeed_. Quite clever really.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and the arms aren't there to propel the bolts, but rather to give the weapon the shape of a cross; the Holy Ghost can't be properly contained under pressure in anything other than a cross-shaped receptacle. That's why it's called a "*cross-bow*" in the first place.




OK, now that's just plain inspired silliness. 

The first time I saw "Van Helsing", my reaction was, "man, this movie has it 'turned to 11'" (to borrow from "Spinal Tap").  It's goofy as hell, but I found it fun.


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## frankthedm (Dec 5, 2006)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> The first time I saw "Van Helsing", my reaction was, "man, this movie has it 'turned to 11'" (to borrow from "Spinal Tap").  It's goofy as hell, but I found it fun.



Same here. It was a very good Castlevania movie.  

I also like the Werewolf:tA crinos / ogre sized werewolves they had in VH. I was not keen on the spider climb or the skin shedding though. And speaking of ogres, i really like Mr. Hyde, he fit my minds eye image of an ogre very well. I also like the way hollywood vampires have a 'false face' that conceals a very monstous appearance with thier typicle cape being actual wings once the illusion is dropped. 

BTW If anyone remembers, that auto crosbow had a HUGE penalty to hit. It was not until Gabriel took one shot a round could he hit with it. Take 5 shots a round at -10 each seems about right for as often as he hit with it. About as accurate as the  _N64 Perfect Dark's_ Reaper gun.


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## Ambrus (Dec 5, 2006)

kenobi65 said:
			
		

> OK, now that's just plain inspired silliness.



Me? Silly? Never.


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## lukelightning (Dec 5, 2006)

I thought the bow part was a separate function/component from the cannister.


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## Umbran (Dec 5, 2006)

lukelightning said:
			
		

> I thought the bow part was a separate function/component from the cannister.




One could have a gas-driven mechanism for loading and pulling the thing.  I actually find that more plausible than the paintball version.


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## Joshua Randall (Dec 5, 2006)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> About as accurate as the  _N64 Perfect Dark's_ Reaper gun.



You mean the one that in the hands of the Skedar can kill you at one thousand yards with a headshot, but when you pick it up to use against them you can't hit the broad side of barn at ten feet? 

(I liked the game a lot, but that weapon was just frustrating.)


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## Ambrus (Dec 5, 2006)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> You mean the one that in the hands of the Skedar can kill you at one thousand yards with a headshot, but when you pick it up to use against them you can't hit the broad side of barn at ten feet?



Non-proficiency penalty.


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## The_Gneech (Dec 5, 2006)

Umbran said:
			
		

> One could have a gas-driven mechanism for loading and pulling the thing.  I actually find that more plausible than the paintball version.




Yeah, I assumed the gas mechanism pushed the "hammer" back, rather than propelling the bolt.

The fact that the arms didn't "twang" is a fault of the SFX team, rather than the scriptwriter. 

-The Gneech  

PS: _Van Helsing_ was an awesome dumbfun movie! Don't go bashing it!  The 30-minute animated tie-in _The London Assignment_ was surprisingly good too, in the same dumbfun vein.


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## frankthedm (Dec 5, 2006)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> You mean the one that in the hands of the Skedar can kill you at one thousand yards with a headshot, but when you pick it up to use against them you can't hit the broad side of barn at ten feet?
> 
> (I liked the game a lot, but that weapon was just frustrating.)



 Crouching with the weapon helped a little bit.  I loved that weapon in multiplayer. Since fists were considered a 'nuclear option' due to the blur inducement that lasted after death [though not outright forbidden like the N-bomb was in our player group], the reaper was one of my preferred melee weapons, right up there with rocket launcher and proxy mines.

Man, do i love proxy mines. Like little air fresheners of excruciating death. Sometimes I blew myself up, but causing the game to lag due to explosions was something I was proud of.


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## Matt Black (Dec 5, 2006)

Ambrus said:
			
		

> The thing to keep in mind is that it's technology based on Christian theology. The part that was left out in the movie's description of the item is that the 'gas' being used to propel the bolts is in fact the Holy Ghost. The clever friar had some high-faith Archbishops call down that aspect of the divine and then the engineers directed it into a pressurized canister which was then installed in the crossbow's stock. The pressure doesn't ever diminish because the power of the divine is infinite; infinite power = infinite pressure. Each bolt fired is therefore propelled through the air by the Holy Ghost itself at _Godspeed_. Quite clever really.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and the arms aren't there to propel the bolts, but rather to give the weapon the shape of a cross; the Holy Ghost can't be properly contained under pressure in anything other than a cross-shaped receptacle. That's why it's called a "*cross-bow*" in the first place.





OK, now THIS explanation I can accept. God did it. Enough for me.


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## Tuzenbach (Dec 6, 2006)

Ambrus said:
			
		

> The thing to keep in mind is that it's technology based on Christian theology. The part that was left out in the movie's description of the item is that the 'gas' being used to propel the bolts is in fact the Holy Ghost. The clever friar had some high-faith Archbishops call down that aspect of the divine and then the engineers directed it into a pressurized canister which was then installed in the crossbow's stock. The pressure doesn't ever diminish because the power of the divine is infinite; infinite power = infinite pressure. Each bolt fired is therefore propelled through the air by the Holy Ghost itself at _Godspeed_. Quite clever really.
> 
> Edit: Oh, and the arms aren't there to propel the bolts, but rather to give the weapon the shape of a cross; the Holy Ghost can't be properly contained under pressure in anything other than a cross-shaped receptacle. That's why it's called a "*cross-bow*" in the first place.



 OK, did you just make this up? If so, your talents are being wasted on a mere messageboard......you should go into script-writing!


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## Ambrus (Dec 6, 2006)

Tuzenbach said:
			
		

> OK, did you just make this up? If so, your talents are being wasted on a mere messageboard......you should go into script-writing!



Well, thank you. And yes I did just make it up. I have to admit though that writing it made me crack-up laughing all the while. Mind if I quote you in my Sig?

Also, keep in mind that when hunting the undead, offending your enemies with the shape of your weapon can be just as efficient as impaling them with it. Which is fortunate, since although the Holy Ghost's ability to propel bolts is infallible, the effectiveness of the weapon is unfortunately dependant on the quite fallible aim of mortal sinners.


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