# Do you eat fast food,if so what do you get and where do you go?



## trappedslider (Jan 28, 2014)

Based on the posts about McDonald's, I decided to make a thread to find out if others eat fast food and where they get it from.

As for the definition of fast food that I'm using for this topic  : designed for ready availability, use, or consumption and with little consideration given to quality or significance.

I tend to go with McDonald's because it's cheap and I like the taste of it.


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## Bullgrit (Jan 28, 2014)

My family eats Moe's (Mexican) about once a week, and CiCi's (pizza) about twice a month. Other than that, we very rarely eat at/from the typical fast food joint, (McDonald's, Chic-fil-A, Wendy's, places with a drive-through window) -- maybe once a year. Nothing against fast food; we just don't.

Bullgrit


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## Morrus (Jan 28, 2014)

Not often.  We'll order a curry once every few weeks, but that's mainly it.  I might pop into a burger place once or twice a year, and round about Xmas the german market does amazing spicy sausages.


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## Piston Honda (Jan 28, 2014)

I tend to go with Wendy’s, Chic-Fil-A or KFC Eleven, fast food hamburgers are pretty gross to me, but I’m generally alright with a decent chicken sandwich. I also go to a local taco place that would be considered fast, but they seem attentive to quality (locally sourced natural ingredients, costs a little more) so they don't meet the criteria.

I don’t eat fast food often, generally on game nights where I work a little later and have next to no time to go home and cook anything (preferred option), so once, maybe twice a month.


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## Kramodlog (Jan 28, 2014)

After having a few drinks, I sometimes stop at a place I trust for a smoke meat poutine. 

I... I feel shame.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 28, 2014)

I don't know if Culver's counts, they're fast-ish and a step up in quality over most. I vary what I order there.

The only fast food place I hit with any sort of frequency is Taco Bell. And that's only when we're coming home late (like 10 pm or later) from something and don't want to deal with making something at home. I always get just regular cruchy tacos, sometimes nachos bel grande, and ever so ocassionally a taco pizza when I forget how much I dislike them now.

Oh, and I have this compulsion to get a McRib once each time they come back. I don't know why. They are not something I would normally touch.

I guess KFC counts too, although I don't see it that way because it's fried chicken, not something that diminishes in quality too easily. And our KFC can bever be considered fast, I always seem to wait for something.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2014)

Twice a month, I get a haircut, and I stop for an unsweetened tea and a pair of Breakfast Jacks on the way.

Every once in a while, I get a Chik-Fil-A original or two.  I don't really care for anyone else's chicken sandwiches, except maybe Wendy's.

Occasionally, I get a Schlotzky's original.  However, I recently discovered Which Wich- their wide variety of fixings make for a truly superior fast food sandwich, including caramelized onions, fresh spinach, tomatoes, etc.

I used to eat at McDonalds a lot, but now, it's only as a last resort.  And usually, just French fries.  For quick burgers, I go to Wendy's or Whataburger.  For GREAT burgers, I go to places like Smashburger or LA Burger.

For fried chicken, I prefer Popeye's, but enjoy KFC, Church's, and Chicken Express.

Pizzas these days usually come from one of my locally owned pizzerias.  We have a few straight up Italian ones, but the one closest to our house is run by Indians.  Their Chicken Tikka Masala and Tandoori Chicken pizza are pleasant surprises.

Since I've been spoiled by authentic Mexican and Tex-Mex places, I rarely eat fast food Mexican anymore.  However, when I do, it's Taco Cabaña, all the way.

It may sound like I eat a lot of fast food, but I don't.  I USED to.  But because of my past, I just like a wide variety.  But except for JitB, I probably don't see the inside of the same place but every other month, if that often.  Some of those I listed I didn't even go to all of 2013.


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## Morrus (Jan 29, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> It may sound like I eat a lot of fast food, but I don't.  I USED to.  But because of my past, I just like a wide variety.  But except for JitB, I probably don't see the inside of the same place but every other month, if that often.  Some of those I listed I didn't even go to all of 2013.




You listed 15 places, which each at every other month each means you eat fast food every other day.

(I know that's probably not true, I'm just being super mathematically pedantic for no good reason at all other than it sounds mildly amusing )


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## Jan van Leyden (Jan 29, 2014)

When the local students' cantina is closed I sometimes visit the Burger King in the vicinity and have the King of the Months deal. That's maybe three or four times per year.

I don't avoid fast food joints, but am not attracted to them in any way. Even our children prefer self-cooked meals by far and shake their head when friends are rave about McD&Co.


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## delericho (Jan 29, 2014)

Sometimes, but not very often.

The usual suspects are Subway (probably our preference), McDonalds, Pizza Hut or Dominos (depending entirely on whether I can be bothered going to Pizza Hut, as our local one don't deliver), and a reasonably decent Indian takeaway in Falkirk.

About once a year I hit Burger King, which is usually reminder enough why I don't go there more often.  And I likewise used to go to KFC about once a year, but have had to give it up.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2014)

Morrus said:


> You listed 15 places, which each at every other month each means you eat fast food every other day.
> 
> (I know that's probably not true, I'm just being super mathematically pedantic for no good reason at all other than it sounds mildly amusing )






At one point in my life, it was probably true.

These days, though, my weekdays are spent traveling all over the Dallas/Fort Worth metroplex.  So I eat breakfast or lunch out nearly every damn day.  However, because of my sodium-dependent hypertension, I usually eat in normal restaurants where I can find more low-sodium options as opposed to fast-food places.  Sometimes, this means ordering something with some slight changes.

FR example, a combo meal in a FF burger place might be a drink, burger, and fries.

In a restaurant, I can usually order a side that is healthier than fries- a typical choice for me is a pile of carrot sticks or celery stalks.


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## sabrinathecat (Jan 29, 2014)

Well, there was the Indian place I used to go to almost daily. Then I started working there. Then the owner started cutting corners. If the chicken touched my tongue, I started to gag. So I switched to just eating the Naan (bread). Then even that made me sick. Twice.
Sure, I think the quality of the food had been brought back up since, but I would never trust that place again.
And I see I'm not the only one it made sick.
Pity: it was a nice place to go.
Now I cook at home, and spend about 1/3 the money on food that I used to.


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## Jhaelen (Jan 29, 2014)

Since we no longer have a canteen at our workplace, I regularly eat (vegetarian) fast food. Considering the big franchises, I only eat at Subways. The rest of the time I eat at a doner (vegetarian kebab) or an asian snack stall.


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## Jeremy E Grenemyer (Jan 29, 2014)

Taco Bell. Because in the future all restaurants are Taco Bell.

Also Subway, because I pretend it's healthy and because I speak Spanish so the ladies love me. (True story.)


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## Ahnehnois (Jan 29, 2014)

Pretty much never. I got away from it for health reasons, but cost is also a factor, and then there's the ethics of the business. I do like french fries, but these days I only eat them rarely and at sit-down restaurants.

To me, cooking my own food is highly desirable as I like to control what goes into it and the act itself is usually enjoyable and it's important to build a habit. If I'm going to not do that, I think it's worthwhile to eat somewhere nice. To some extent this is the luxury of working from home as well.

On the rare occasion that I do eat fast food, it's never at one of the big chains. I haven't eaten from any of them in a long time. Various local health-oriented and diverse fast food and "fast casual" places have become a thing and I try one every now and then.

That said, I live near a quasi-legendary falafel place, one which I thought I'd go to all the time when I moved in, but I find it's usually not worth it, even though it is delicious. I've only been there maybe twice in the past year, and it's a favorite of mine.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2014)

sanishiver said:


> Taco Bell. Because in the future all restaurants are Taco Bell.




Great reference!


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## Bullgrit (Jan 29, 2014)

Having, myself, implied places like Moe's and CiCi's are fast food restaurants -- though they really aren't -- I think the label "fast food restaurant" gets applied to too many places. And this thought brings up a memory of an argument I had with a friend during a D&D game night.

My friend complained that our city doesn't have any restaurants. I pointed out that there were probably 10 within walking distance of where we were right then sitting, and that I had eaten at one just an hour previous. He said Chili's isn't a restaurant, it's a chain, the same as every other nearby place to sit down and order and eat a meal. There weren't any "real" restaurants in our city. According to him, all chain restaurants are crap. Our argument came down to: I thought he was insane and he thought I was stupid, so we gave up and just grabbed our dice to slay some orcs.

But hearing/reading other people's opinions of restaurants over the years, my friend is not the only person who seems to think that any "chain" restaurant is crap, and fast food places are the pit of hell where they don't even serve actual, real food. What is this mentality?

Bullgrit


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## Zombie_Babies (Jan 29, 2014)

Meh, chains are typically not very great.  I guess it comes from eating at places that are pretty great.  Once you have a steak at a real place, you understand that the steak Applebee's serves isn't steak at all (though, to be fair, Texas Roadhouse - a chain - does a pretty damned fine job for the money).  Still, a chain like a Chili's or Friday's is a lot better than a chain like Wendy's.  

Oh, and I see a lot of love for Chik Fil A or whatever you spell it like. While I do agree the sandwiches aren't half bad, I have to say they're small and expensive - not a reason not to eat there, though.  Their owner is reason enough to stay far, far away from that place.


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## trappedslider (Jan 29, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Oh, and I see a lot of love for Chik Fil A or whatever you spell it like. While I do agree the sandwiches aren't half bad, I have to say they're small and expensive - not a reason not to eat there, though.  Their owner is reason enough to stay far, far away from that place.




many others think that's reason enough to eat there *Shrugs*


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## Umbran (Jan 29, 2014)

Fast food, in terms of McDonald's, Burger King, and such?  Very rarely.  When I'm driving down the eastern seaboard to get to a game in the BaltoWash area, I might end up stopping at such a place to get something quickly, but I'd prefer a sit-down restaurant meal if I can manage it.

Fast food, in terms of, say, ordering from my favorite local pizza place or restaurant that does takeout?  Maybe once a week, in general.  More often recently, because we had to shift household chore burdens, and my wife wants to make my life a little easier now and then.  When the burdens shift back, so will our eating habits.

My wife and I are hobby cooks.  We cook for ourselves far more often than not.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 29, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Oh, and I see a lot of love for Chik Fil A or whatever you spell it like. While I do agree the sandwiches aren't half bad, I have to say they're small and expensive - not a reason not to eat there, though.  Their owner is reason enough to stay far, far away from that place.



I've never eaten Chick-Fil-A, mostly because it's fast food, but also because of the owner. I've seen other people eating it. My university has one, and some of the people I worked with ate it. The food doesn't look appealing. As I said, I haven't eaten it, but the chicken looks pretty dry. Much like McDonald's, Check-whatever-A is overpriced for the garbage they sell.


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## Zombie_Babies (Jan 29, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I've never eaten Chick-Fil-A, mostly because it's fast food, but also because of the owner. I've seen other people eating it. My university has one, and some of the people I worked with ate it. The food doesn't look appealing. As I said, I haven't eaten it, but the chicken looks pretty dry. Much like McDonald's, Check-whatever-A is overpriced for the garbage they sell.




It's actually decent.  I'd put their sandwiches on a level a little above McDonald's and the rest - not saying much, sure, but it's something.  That said, it's definitely not worth the money especially considering what that money end up funding.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 29, 2014)

Umbran said:


> My wife and I are hobby cooks.  We cook for ourselves far more often than not.




Well...you've seen the way I participate in cooking threads here.

Which reminds me...someone needs to start a new cooking thread.


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## Elf Witch (Jan 30, 2014)

I rarely eat fast food. For two reasons one being my health the other money. I do eat Subway now and then. I do occasionally get cravings for things like a Whopper or a Big Mac and I did splurge on a McRib when they came out.


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## Bullgrit (Jan 30, 2014)

It's interesting that so many people say they don't eat fast food because of money, yet so many others complain about how the fast food industry is making poor people fat because it's so cheap.

Bullgrit


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## Kramodlog (Jan 30, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> It's interesting that so many people say they don't eat fast food because of money, yet so many others complain about how the fast food industry is making poor people fat because it's so cheap.
> 
> Bullgrit



It might depends on what people define has fast food and what they spend on non-fast food food. 

It is not necessarely what Limbaugh is telling you.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 30, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> It's interesting that so many people say they don't eat fast food because of money, yet so many others complain about how the fast food industry is making poor people fat because it's so cheap.
> 
> Bullgrit




There are reasons for that.

The fast food menus usually have a combination of very cheap, calorie-laden, low nutrition foods on the menu that are fat/sugar/salt bombs (hitting the wheelhouse of our taste bud chemistry) combined with better options that are generally more expensive than home cooked.  (One notable exception: fried chicken is often cheaper to buy commercially than for most people to make.)

In addition, grocery stores in poverty stricken areas tend to have lower quality produce and fewer overall options than groceries in more affluent neighborhoods...at a higher price.  (The poor are essentially a captive market, lacking the ability and/or time to travel around for better options.)

Its easier to eat healthily if you have the time & money to make the right choices.


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## Kramodlog (Jan 30, 2014)

*Food Deserts*

I thinking you're talking about food deserts.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 30, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> There are reasons for that.
> 
> The fast food menus usually have a combination of very cheap, calorie-laden, low nutrition foods on the menu that are fat/sugar/salt bombs (hitting the wheelhouse of our taste bud chemistry) combined with better options that are generally more expensive than home cooked.  (One notable exception: fried chicken is often cheaper to buy commercially than for most people to make.)
> 
> ...



Exactly.



goldomark said:


> I thinking you're talking about food deserts.



Sounds like it.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 30, 2014)

goldomark said:


> I thinking you're talking about food deserts.




Yep.  I lived in one when I was in law school.  Unlike most of my neighbors- who depended on public transportation- I had a car.

It doesn't sound like much, but whereas I could go anywhere I chose at anytime I chose, those who used the busses added anywhere from 30 minutes to 2 hours on a grocery trip outside of the immediate neighborhood.

Add to that, I could load up my trunk- or Hell, my whole car- with groceries, making several short trips to unload it.  Compare that to a bus rider who could only buy what they could personally carry on the bus and from the bus stop in a single trip.  That means I make fewer grocery trips.

And that car took me to all knds of other shopping opportunities, including Sam's, the farmer's market, Whole Foods, and the guy who got fresh gulf seafood twice a week.

None of which existed all that close to my neighborhood.  Most of my neighbors shopped at a sad little Randall's on the corner that I went to only a couple of times because I needed something _immediately_.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok (Jan 30, 2014)

I try to avoid fast food. Most of it is terrible. Unless the average Mongolian grill place counts as fast food. That sort of restaurant is almost always worthwhile. The only thing that makes me likely to get it is long road trips. If I don't have enough money or time to get a decent meal, I usually just stop by a convenience store to get some relatively filling junk food or find a supermarket with a deli. Or I get some food together ahead of time.

Regarding the Chik-Fil-A tangent: I have to concur with the group that refuses to eat there because of both the management and the food.


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## Kramodlog (Jan 30, 2014)

Yup, mobility has an impact on [redacted].


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## Ahnehnois (Jan 30, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> But hearing/reading other people's opinions of restaurants over the years, my friend is not the only person who seems to think that any "chain" restaurant is crap, and fast food places are the pit of hell where they don't even serve actual, real food. What is this mentality?



The locavore movement, perhaps?

I'm not quite that strong about it, but I'm definitely anti-chain.


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## WayneLigon (Jan 30, 2014)

Wendy's, because there is one right next to where I work, and I generally like their food - maybe about once a month or so. Chik-fil-a once in a while.

I WOULD get Krystal much more often (for those of you not in the South, a Krystal is like a smaller White Castle) but the company that owns all the Krystals in the city is just... terrible at finding and training help. Go outside the city, even to the small town less than 10 minutes north of here, and it's like heaven on a bun. Every time I leave the city, I make it a point to stop at a Krystal and just enjoy.


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## delericho (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> Having, myself, implied places like Moe's and CiCi's are fast food restaurants -- though they really aren't -- I think the label "fast food restaurant" gets applied to too many places.




I dunno. "Fast food" must surely refer to food that is, well, fast - basically, anything that can be prepared quickly. So it applies equally to McDonalds, to Subway, to the street food vendors who are apparently once again becoming trendy in London, and to the tiny little pizza places I used while in Rome.



> My friend complained that our city doesn't have any restaurants. I pointed out that there were probably 10 within walking distance of where we were right then sitting, and that I had eaten at one just an hour previous. He said Chili's isn't a restaurant, it's a chain, the same as every other nearby place to sit down and order and eat a meal.




Yeah, that's the problem with people using their own definitions for things. C.f. Humpty Dumpty in "Through the Looking Glass". What he was really lamenting was a lack of _good_ restaurants.



> But hearing/reading other people's opinions of restaurants over the years, my friend is not the only person who seems to think that any "chain" restaurant is crap, and fast food places are the pit of hell where they don't even serve actual, real food. What is this mentality?




The great strength of a chain restaurant is that they're essentially the same everywhere you go, or as close as they can reasonably manage. A Big Mac in Falkirk is almost identical to one in Little Rock, to one in Rennes, and to one in Rome.

The great weakness of a chain restaurant is that, in order to be successful and be the same everywhere, they have to shoot for a very wide lowest-common-denominator. That Big Mac has to appeal to (or, rather, not be rejected by) people who live in Scotland, the US, France, Italy, and anywhere else McD operate. That means that it really can't be terribly adventurous - it almost _has_ to be rather bland in taste and texture. Honestly, it's surprising that the pickles have survived, though that might be a cunning ploy to give people something else to remove!

Compare that with a local takeaway. They're limited by the fact that their customer base is made up only of people in the local area, but at the same time they're liberated by that as well. They don't need to care that people living in the US, or Italy, or wherever else would hate the food they produce - all that matters is that people who live and work within a few miles like the food.

But even they are limited by the fact that they have to appeal to a wide enough customer base to stay open. On the other hand, if I'm preparing burgers for my own consumption, then there are exactly _two_ people I have to please - myself and my wife. So, if I want to mess around with different meats, different spice mixes, or even adjust the cooking times and temperatures to find my perfect burger, then I'm entirely able to do so. Of course, the end result probably won't suit anyone else... but that really doesn't matter, since they're generally not going to be eating them anyway.


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## Jan van Leyden (Jan 31, 2014)

delericho said:


> On the other hand, if I'm preparing burgers for my own consumption, then there are exactly _two_ people I have to please - myself and my wife. So, if I want to mess around with different meats, different spice mixes, or even adjust the cooking times and temperatures to find my perfect burger, then I'm entirely able to do so. Of course, the end result probably won't suit anyone else... but that really doesn't matter, since they're generally not going to be eating them anyway.




Also, you don't have to get exactly the same result twice. That's one of the joys of cooking for yourself: each meal you prepare is a one-time affair. Even if you use the same recipe as baseline, the result will differ each time you cook it.

Contrast this with the BigMac which will taste the same regardless of when and where you order it. Some call this reliable, I call it boring.


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## delericho (Jan 31, 2014)

Jan van Leyden said:


> Also, you don't have to get exactly the same result twice.




Yep, good point.



> Contrast this with the BigMac which will taste the same regardless of when and where you order it. Some call this reliable, I call it boring.




Yep. I do find myself wondering just how long it will be before McDonalds replace their kitchen staff with automation. I'm reasonably sure it's a question of _when_ they do this, not _if_ they do it.


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## Ahnehnois (Jan 31, 2014)

delericho said:


> Yep. I do find myself wondering just how long it will be before McDonalds replace their kitchen staff with automation. I'm reasonably sure it's a question of _when_ they do this, not _if_ they do it.



Great. Get rid of some crappy low paying jobs that virtually no one enjoys doing, and replace them with cheaper automated labor. Hopefully that happens in all kinds of industries.


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## Bullgrit (Jan 31, 2014)

But this idea doesn't make any sense. Bad/bland food does not turn a restaurant into a chain of restaurants. People don't go to, for instance, McDonald's for bland food. They go there because they like _that_ food, be it a Big Mac or french fries.

My mother and step-father owned and operated a restaurant in my hometown. It served homecooked-style breakfast and lunch, and did* pretty good business. Good enough that they eventually opened another location on the other side of my hometown. They cooked and served the same food, the same way in the second location because it was good in the first place and they just wanted to offer it to more people. They didn't dumb down their food to make more people happy. They didn't change their food to give more variety. Customers liked it enough at the first location, so they duplicated it in the second location.

* Past tense because after my step-father died, my mom sold the business. The restaurant is still operating, but with another owner.

Bigger chain restaurants do the same thing. People don't go to a restaurant for bland food. Yes, the food should be the same in all locations. If I like a Big Mac, and I'm in Sweden, I know I'll like the McDonald's in Sweden. If I want Swedish food, I won't go to McDonald's. I don't see this as any kind of negative for McDonald's.

(An interesting reversal of this is Coca-Cola -- Cokes are different around the world. And, to me, this seems weird and wrong.)

Chain food is not bad. If you really believe that, you're saying that so many people want to eat bad food they'll make a bad restaurant successful enough to expand. Quite frankly, that's a ridiculous belief. You're saying that either the first restaurant changed to become bad so it could become a chain, or it's food was bad but somehow was successful enough to expand.

Taco Bell gets a bad rap about it's food. I can't remember the last time I ate anything from Taco Bell, but this fact has nothing to do with the quality of their food. (I'm curious to try their Doritos taco.) But obviously some people like it a lot -- enough that the chain is a cultural icon. Saying that Taco Bell is bad is pretty insulting to all the people who like it and regularly eat from there.

I just find it very . . . snotty (can't think of a better word) for people to put down obviously popular things. I even think that 9 times out of 10, the denegrator is doing it just to seem "above the sheeple". Popular things don't get popular and stay popular for decades by being bad. McDonald's and Taco Bell aren't big chains because they're bland, pathetic food.

McDonald's has some delicious items. And I bet the Doritos taco at Taco Bell is fantastic. Dammit, now I've got to look up and see if there's a Taco Bell near me for lunch. (But I've been craving Wendy's chilli for a few days, now, because of all this snow and ice and cold.)

Bullgrit


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## Kramodlog (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> People don't go to, for instance, McDonald's for bland food. They go there because they like _that_ food, be it a Big Mac or french fries.



People got to McDonald's cause they are familiar with that sort of bland food. Get it right. 

Mainly because they haven't been exposed to other stuff when young. Their parents fed them salted and sweeten food when young and they look for it now. There is a reason why McDonald's targets kids so much.


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## Bullgrit (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:
			
		

> McDonald's has some delicious items. And I bet the Doritos taco at Taco Bell is fantastic. Dammit, now I've got to look up and see if there's a Taco Bell near me for lunch. (But I've been craving Wendy's chilli for a few days, now, because of all this snow and ice and cold.)



Right now I'm eating a Doritos taco and a small chili. The taco is much bigger than I expected, and it's pretty darn good, too. The chili is as good as I remember it, and perfect for a cold, nasty day.

Right decent lunch for 350 calories.

Bullgrit


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

goldomark said:


> People got to McDonald's cause they are familiar with that sort of bland food. Get it right.
> 
> Mainly because they haven't been exposed to other stuff when young. Their parents fed them salted and sweeten food when young and they look for it now. There is a reason why McDonald's targets kids so much.




I go to McDonald's occasionally when I want a quick meal. I've had a wide array of experience. My parents were adventurous and asked us to try something new before declaring we didn't like it. 

Get over yourself. *YOU* obviously don't like McDonalds. Other people do, and many of those have been exposed to a wide variety of food choices. The existence of gourmet burger places, my wife's superior cooking skills, and my own culinary talents don't stop that occasional taste for McDonalds.

It's like you're on a crusade. Did they perma-ban you from McDonald's playland as a kid?


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## Umbran (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> Right now I'm eating a Doritos taco and a small chili. The taco is much bigger than I expected, and it's pretty darn good, too. The chili is as good as I remember it, and perfect for a cold, nasty day.
> 
> Right decent lunch for 350 calories.




For certain values of "decent".  It may be pleasing to the taste buds, but...

One day, we were looking at a Taco Bell, it's menu, pricing, and dietary information, when my wife realized something.  Pound for pound, taco bell food was less expensive than the frozen rats we feed our pet snake.

Any restaurant that could legitimately have the tagline, "Cheaper than eating rats!" causes me to think twice.

YMMV, of course.


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## Kramodlog (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I go to McDonald's occasionally when I want a quick meal. I've had a wide array of experience. My parents were adventurous and asked us to try something new before declaring we didn't like it.
> 
> Get over yourself. *YOU* obviously don't like McDonalds. Other people do, and many of those have been exposed to a wide variety of food choices. The existence of gourmet burger places, my wife's superior cooking skills, and my own culinary talents don't stop that occasional taste for McDonalds.
> 
> It's like you're on a crusade. Did they perma-ban you from McDonald's playland as a kid?



Personal attacks? Must be that mythical enworld politeness I heard so much about, but never really witness. 

What crusade? It is just an accurate description of our North American dietary habits of amajority of people. Hence the obesity, diabetus, heart disease, etc, epidemics. Your anecdotale experiences and opinions means nothing in the grand scheme of things. 

And it is not a dichotomy. Cheap processed food vs. gourmet/luxury food as the only two alternatives a person will face in their life. There is plenty of tasteful, healthy and affordable foods between the two.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Personal attacks? Must be that mythical enworld politeness I heard so much about, but never really witness.




Why so emotional over a joke? You act like you've _been_ perma-banned before.



goldomark said:


> What crusade? It is just an accurate description of our North American dietary habits of amajority of people. Hence the obesity, diabetus, heart disease, etc, epidemics. Your anecdotale experiences and opinions means nothing in the grand scheme of things.




Your 'accurate description' is just as anecdotal. And if you want to keep making the case for blaming businesses for obesity, diabetus, heart disease, etc, you're barking up the wrong tree. Moderation is the key, not blaming everyone else for your problems.



goldomark said:


> And it is not a dichotomy. Cheap processed food vs. gourmet/luxury food as the only two alternatives a person will face in their life. There is plenty of tasteful, healthy and affordable foods between the two.




Yep, and I  mentioned two of those in my post. My classically-trained chef wife and my own natural talent in the kitchen provide our family with plenty of tasteful, healthy and affordable foods between the two. What draws us away from good home cooking into the cheap/quick food vs. luxury/gourmet is the fact that we aren't always home or we don't have the time.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> My classically-trained chef wife and my own natural talent in the kitchen provide our family with plenty of tasteful, healthy and affordable foods between the two. What draws us away from good home cooking into the cheap/quick food vs. luxury/gourmet is the fact that we aren't always home or we don't have the time.




Yep, pretty much this.  Well...sans the classically-trained chef wife.










(Lucky Basterd.)


----------



## Kramodlog (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Why so emotional over a joke? You act like you've _been_ perma-banned before.



Upset? I'm only making an observation, champ. 



> Your 'accurate description' is just as anecdotal.



Nah, it's pretty much what nutritionists have been documenting.  



> And if you want to keep making the case for blaming businesses for obesity, diabetus, heart disease, etc, you're barking up the wrong tree. Moderation is the key, not blaming everyone else for your problems.



I see, your upset because not because I talk about McDonald's, but because you drank the kool-aid that businesses are victims and such. Well that is politics, so I'll have to leave it be. Ashame. 



> Yep, and I  mentioned two of those in my post. My classically-trained chef wife and my own natural talent in the kitchen provide our family with plenty of tasteful, healthy and affordable foods between the two. What draws us away from good home cooking into the cheap/quick food vs. luxury/gourmet is the fact that we aren't always home or we don't have the time.



Again, champ, it is not a dichotomy. It is a spectrum.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Yep, and I  mentioned two of those in my post. My classically-trained chef wife and my own natural talent in the kitchen provide our family with plenty of tasteful, healthy and affordable foods between the two. What draws us away from good home cooking into the cheap/quick food vs. luxury/gourmet is the fact that we aren't always home or we don't have the time.



But why go to a terrible fast food restaurant, like McDonald's, instead of going to a restaurant where you can get good food? You don' always have to eat at home. Hell, I enjoy going out to a nice restaurant, and do so fairly often. Why settle for McDonald's?


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## Bullgrit (Jan 31, 2014)

Umbran said:
			
		

> Any restaurant that could legitimately have the tagline, "Cheaper than eating rats!" causes me to think twice.



So, pound to dollars, buying general beef in huge quantities is cheaper than buying specialty rats in small quantities? 

Gasoline is much cheaper than bottled water, so surely I should pour water into my truck gas tank because . . . one thing cheaper is worse than an unrelated thing more expensieve.

Or

The ground beef I buy at the grocery store for use in my home hamburgers and tacos is probably cheaper than your rat meat, too. So I guess I should stop doing that and only buy meat that costs more, dollars per pound, than the rats you feed your snake.

Or

Wow, your witty insult really has changed my mind. That taco didn't actually taste good -- it was pathetic and I'm just too ignorant to know it. Damn my unsophisticated pallet. How embarrassing.

Bullgrit


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> So, pound to dollars, buying general beef in huge quantities is cheaper than buying specialty rats in small quantities?
> 
> *Gasoline is much cheaper than bottled water, so surely I should pour water into my truck gas tank because . . . one thing cheaper is worse than an unrelated thing more expensieve.*
> 
> ...



Really? I could get a gallon of water between $0.79 and $1.29 at the grocery store. Tap water is even cheaper. I got gas last night, and the cheap stuff was at $3.55. How much is gas and water in your area?


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> But why go to a terrible fast food restaurant, like McDonald's, instead of going to a restaurant where you can get good food? You don' always have to eat at home. Hell, I enjoy going out to a nice restaurant, and do so fairly often. Why settle for McDonald's?




*Fast* food comes into play for me when *time* is an issue. I don't always have time when away from home to sit down at a good restaurant. Or, sometimes, I just really want that McRib. There seems to be this ongoing part of the discussion that people only actually like fast food because they've been somehow tricked into it. 

Instead, one needs to accept that other people have different tastes than they do. I *really* want to like kimchee. It's got ingredients I like, but the overall taste just doesn't do it for me. My korean friend can't understand how anyone could ever eat any kind of cheese, she hates it. 

People aren't always settling when they go fast food. It's where their current taste for something leads them.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> *Fast* food comes into play for me when *time* is an issue. I don't always have time when away from home to sit down at a good restaurant. Or, sometimes, I just really want that McRib. There seems to be this ongoing part of the discussion that people only actually like fast food because they've been somehow tricked into it.



Can't you just call in an order for take out? There are plenty of good restaurants, that aren't expensive, serve good food, have takeout, and aren't McDonald's. 


> Instead, one needs to accept that other people have different tastes than they do. I *really* want to like kimchee. It's got ingredients I like, but the overall taste just doesn't do it for me. My korean friend can't understand how anyone could ever eat any kind of cheese, she hates it.



You shouldn't be friend's with that guy. He obviously has terrible taste.


> People aren't always settling when they go fast food. It's where their current taste for something leads them.



Maybe they should fix their current state.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Can't you just call in an order for take out? There are plenty of good restaurants, that aren't expensive, serve good food, have takeout, and aren't McDonald's.




When on the road and I need something I can eat in the car? No. When travelling through an area I don't know well and don't have time to stop and look? No. When coming home from Gameday at 11 o'clock at night and the only places open are fast-food and both of us are too tired to cook? No.

Fast food is the exception in my life, but I do sometimes get it.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You shouldn't be friend's with that guy. He obviously has terrible taste.




She's a very sweet person, she had about as much cheese growing up in korea as I had kimchee growing up in Chiburbia. That's to say none.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Maybe they should fix their current state.




No more so than anyone should tell you that you must eat fast food. Everyone's welcome to their own tastes. I have a friend that suggests restaurants to me. I learned long ago that each one will be another boring steak and potatoes place. And he thinks the places I recommend are too weird. To each their own.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> But why go to a terrible fast food restaurant, like McDonald's, instead of going to a restaurant where you can get good food? You don' always have to eat at home. Hell, I enjoy going out to a nice restaurant, and do so fairly often. Why settle for McDonald's?




IME, FF is often a case of cash, convenience, and compromise.  FF is generally cheaper than a good meal, it is ubiquitously available and quickly served, and when trying to feed a group, FF joints offer something everyone can agree upon.  While I would prefer to have a sushi plate or linguini with white clams, if I only have a half hour for lunch, that's probably not an option.

The other night, when posting in goldo's "What are you eating?" thread, I was in Whataburger eating a grilled chicken sandwich with fries.  It wasn't the best chicken sandwich ever, but I didn't have to cook it, I didn't have to clean up my kitchen, and- of key importance- Whataburger was open.  Most real restaurants were closed or closing.

Further, McD's- or any other FF franchise with which you may be familiar- is a known quantity.  If you're driving the interstate and its time to eat, DQ may not be as appealing as the adventure of Big Rudy's Smokehouse. OTOH, the adventure of Big Rudy's might be a long history of salmonella poisonings...not something you want with hours of driving ahead.  Or Big Rudy might have a preference for classic Vegas stripper photos for his smokehouse...not something you want to explain to your kids.


----------



## Umbran (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> So, pound to dollars, buying general beef in huge quantities is cheaper than buying specialty rats in small quantities?




It isn't just the beef, though.  It is the beef, and all the other ingredients, and the preparation....

We did, in fact, do similar comparisons for other chains - at the time, per pound, Taco Bell was notably cheaper than, say, Wendy's.  Not like Burger King isn't buying it's meat in bulk too.  So, how is it that Taco Bell can come in so much cheaper?  Maybe they have some really amazing ways to cut costs in the production process, or, maybe, they're buying really amazingly cheap ingredients?  Either way, I start to wonder if corners are cut.  Sorry if you feel that's too suspicious of me.



> Gasoline is much cheaper than bottled water, so surely I should pour water into my truck gas tank because . . . one thing cheaper is worse than an unrelated thing more expensieve.




I can get a gallon of bottled water at my local Stop and Shop for $0.95.  If I go name brand "Poland Springs", a gallon is $1.25!  Where you finding gas for that price?

Plus, nobody is trying to sell gasoline as *food*.



> Wow, your witty insult really has changed my mind. That taco didn't actually taste good -- it was pathetic and I'm just too ignorant to know it. Damn my unsophisticated pallet. How embarrassing.




Ah, now we get to the meat of it.  

It has nothing to do with your palate.  There's questions of food quality that go beyond what you can taste.  Taco Bell has had to go out of it's way to produce marketing materials to assuage concerns about their quality - you can find some of them on their website.  Some concerns are, of course, complete rubbish, but others may not be.  

You're perfectly welcome to your opinion of their products.  I don't think you should take my disagreement with your opinion as a comment against you, personally.


----------



## Bullgrit (Jan 31, 2014)

Umbran said:
			
		

> You're perfectly welcome to your opinion of their products. I don't think you should take my disagreement with your opinion as a comment against you, personally.



Well, you didn't disagree with my opinion. I ate the item and said it was a decent meal. You did not eat the item and said it's worse that dead rats. That's not a disagreement. That's a disgusting non sequitor at best, or an insulting comment on what I chose to eat at worst.

Where would a person rather eat? At Taco Bell where they have get inspected and graded by government health inspectors, or at your house where everyone knows you have live snakes and dead rats? (That is a joke -- you know I like you, Umbran.)

Hell, I may never eat anything from Taco Bell again in my life. I don't remember when was the last time I ate from there -- could easily have been 10 years. So it's not like I have a dog in this race. I just find it surprising that some people feel the need to put down -- not just state their own personal disinterest or dislike for -- something that obviously many, many people visit, eat, and like.

I find it amazing that Super Bowl tickets sell for thousands of dollars, and I would never care to go, (or really even see the game on TV), but I'm not going to belittle the sport or the people who do want to go to it. [You know it's paying millions of dollars to violent drug abusers without the intelligence or skills to be successful in business, right? Can't you do something better with your time and money, like go to and support a museum or a concert?]

Bullgrit


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 31, 2014)

> Hell, I may never eat anything from Taco Bell again in my life. I don't remember when was the last time I ate from there -- could easily have been 10 years.




I do remember the last time I ate at the Bell.  It was between 1994-1998, and I had a super-sized burrito tht cost me something like $3.  It was tasty, but not so good that I'd pick it over a meal at Taco Cabaña.

Nor any of the dozens of Tex-Mex places nearby.

I cannot recall the last time I went to Taco Bueno.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> When on the road and I need something I can eat in the car? No.



Why not?


> When traveling through an area I don't know well and don't have time to stop and look? No.



Google, Yelp, Urban Spoon, and other apps like those are your friend in these situations. 


> When coming home from Gameday at 11 o'clock at night and the only places open are fast-food and both of us are too tired to cook? No.



Alright, I'll give you that one. It probably depends on the area that you live in. I can get good food, that isn't fast food, at almost any time of the day/night. I would imagine that in certain areas you don't have that luxury. The best thing to do is avoid game night.


> She's a very sweet person, she had about as much cheese growing up in korea



She's an adult now, right? She can try various cheeses, can't she?


> as I had kimchee growing up in Chiburbia. That's to say none.



You shouldn't be friends with yourself either. Get rid of that guy. He sounds like bad people.


> No more so than anyone should tell you that you must eat fast food.



That's pretty much what McDonald's commercials do. 


> Everyone's welcome to their own tastes.



That is true, but there is nothing wrong with trying to improve people's taste.


> I have a friend that suggests restaurants to me. I learned long ago that each one will be another boring steak and potatoes place. And he thinks the places I recommend are too weird. To each their own.



That guy sounds like he should be joining the Korean girl.


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## Bullgrit (Jan 31, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:
			
		

> I do remember the last time I ate at the Bell. It was between 1994-1998, and I had a super-sized burrito tht cost me something like $3. It was tasty, but not so good that I'd pick it over a meal at Taco Cabaña.
> 
> Nor any of the dozens of Tex-Mex places nearby.
> 
> I cannot recall the last time I went to Taco Bueno.



I love, love Mexican food. We have many authentic Mexican places around here -- owned, run, cooked, served, all by actual Mexicans. I've also had authentic Tex-Mex in Texas. For tacos, they all seem the same to me -- Taco Bell is about the same as El Rodeo, Tres Magueyes (sp?), La Rancherita, etc. It's the bigger items, the meals, that I prefer at a real Mexican restaurant. But tacos seem to be tacos anywhere.

Bullgrit


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## JediSoth (Jan 31, 2014)

I used to and I used to enjoy it. Even now, I can order something I will like to eat. However, because I've pretty much cut it out of my diet altogether (my wife avoid it as much as possible and try to eat fresh & local as much as we can), I don't like it so much a few hours later, if you take my meaning.

Some places are OK. I can tolerate Steak n' Shake and Culvers pretty well, but some of the more world famous chains? Nah. My body doesn't handle them very well anymore. One meal is OK. If I have to eat it more than once in a 36-48 hour period, things are gonna be bad. Conventions are hell. I usually have to eat pretty expensively at conventions.


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## PigKnight (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> For tacos, they all seem the same to me -- Taco Bell is about the same as El Rodeo, Tres Magueyes (sp?), La Rancherita, etc. ... But tacos seem to be tacos anywhere.




What is this I don't even?

Taco Bell is to tacos like a McDonalds hamburger is to an In-N-Out burger. Technically they're the same thing, but they're completely different animals. Taco Bell tacos are nothing like real tacos. I can't even words.

PigKnight


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Why not?




Because better food tends not to be driving-friendly. Also, phoning ahead while driving is dangerously stupid, IMO. (See the next repsonse before jumping on me.)



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Google, Yelp, Urban Spoon, and other apps like those are your friend in these situations.




All unaccessible from my dumb-phone. I don't put a priority on tech, so I rely on a phone that actually only makes hand-held phone calls. Scary, I know.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Alright, I'll give you that one. It probably depends on the area that you live in. I can get good food, that isn't fast food, at almost any time of the day/night. I would imagine that in certain areas you don't have that luxury. The best thing to do is avoid game night.




No. ENWorld Chicago GameDay is too much fun to avoid. [/cheap plug]



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> She's an adult now, right? She can try various cheeses, can't she?




She can. She still hates cheese.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> That's pretty much what McDonald's commercials do.




I'm immune to advertising. Oh, look there's a little game in the ad banner where I have to throw a can of Cuke into a basket. Man I'm thirsty...



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> That is true, but there is nothing wrong with trying to improve people's taste.




True. I just don't push it once they try and still don't like it. That was my dad's policy. The trust he placed in us as kids made me try things honestly, knowing that if I truly didn't like something he wouldn't force me to eat it. I ended up liking alot of things that other kids turned their noses up at. And he stayed true to his word, except when it came to sweet potatoes for some reason.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> That guy sounds like he should be joining the Korean girl.




Why? He'd think kimchee and seaweed rolls were weird.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 31, 2014)

> Google, Yelp, Urban Spoon, and other apps like those are your friend in these situations.




Well...yes and no.  They're no pancetta...errrr...panacea. 

While i have made some _awesome_ finds using them, I've also gotten some bad data from those and similar resources.  For instance, both Google and Yelp have directed me to places that were closed or relocated than once.  And you're often seeing reviews by people who don't know the cuisine and/or whose preferences you may or may not share.

And using such a resource while traveling- I mean, while actually in motion- is not as fast (or safe) as using your eyes to scan your surroundings.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 31, 2014)

> All unaccessible from my dumb-phone. I don't put a priority on tech, so I rely on a phone that actually only makes hand-held phone calls. Scary, I know.




Amen, bro!  I'm hoping there are still dumb phones in the stores when my contract rolls over.

I'd rather have a phone that does phone stuff excellently than something that also does what my tablet does, but poorly.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> IME, FF is often a case of cash, convenience, and compromise.  FF is generally cheaper than a good meal, it is ubiquitously available and quickly served, and when trying to feed a group, FF joints offer something everyone can agree upon.  While I would prefer to have a sushi plate or linguini with white clams, if I only have a half hour for lunch, that's probably not an option.



You know, I keep hearing people say that FF is cheap(er). I don't eat at FF restaurants, but a while ago I stopped in a McDonald's to take a piss. On my way out I looked at their menus, and I have to say, for the food they give you, they are overcharging you. The quantity and quality of food just isn't there to warrant what they charge. The only thing that seems to be worth it is the fountain drinks. You get free refills on those, but the rest of the meal? Nah...



> The other night, when posting in gold's "What are you eating?" thread, I was in Whataburger eating a grilled chicken sandwich with fries.  It wasn't the best chicken sandwich ever, but I didn't have to cook it, I didn't have to clean up my kitchen, and- of key importance- Whataburger was open.  Most real restaurants were closed or closing.



I can understand that. Not all areas have restaurants that stay open all night. I'm fortunate enough to live somewhere that I can get pretty much anything I want at almost any time.



> Further, McD's- or any other FF franchise with which you may be familiar- is a known quantity.  If you're driving the interstate and its time to eat, DQ may not be as appealing as the adventure of Big Rudy's Smokehouse. OTOH, the adventure of Big Rudy's might be a long history of salmonella poisonings...not something you want with hours of driving ahead.  Or Big Rudy might have a preference for classic Vegas stripper photos for his smokehouse...not something you want to explain to your kids.



I have an app on my phone that lets me check the health inspection reports of restaurants in Florida. You would be amazed at some of these reports. Some restaurants get multiple violations for the same thing... over and over. McDonald's, Burger King, Toxic Hell... they've all received violations. So have many other restaurants that you would assume would be clean.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You know, I keep hearing people say that FF is cheap(er). I don't eat at FF restaurants, but a while ago I stopped in a McDonald's to take a piss. On my way out I looked at their menus, and I have to say, for the food they give you, they are overcharging you. The quantity and quality of food just isn't there to warrant what they charge. The only thing that seems to be worth it is the fountain drinks. You get free refills on those, but the rest of the meal? Nah...




But, that's part of the problem. A sit down restaurant charges you more and you get more food. If you're on the go that food either goes to waste or you overeat. At McDonald's you can get a small sandwich, small fry, and a drink off the dollar menu for $3. A satisfying amount of food for a third of the price of most sit down restaurants. Before you have to tip your server that is.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Because better food tends not to be driving-friendly.



Depends on the food. You can still get a quality burger at a place that isn't McDonald's. A wrap is pretty one-handed friendly. There are plenty of good meals that can be eaten while driving.







> Also, phoning ahead while driving is dangerously stupid, IMO.
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## Bullgrit (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:
			
		

> ..._having to defend his reasons for occassionally eating fast food_ ...



If someone likes the food at a particular place, who is anyone to tell them they should find something "better"? I don't chide the girl in my office who drinks Starbucks every day that she should drink water -- it's free and good for you. She likes coffee. It'd be absurd for her to have to defend her choice to me just because I'm on a health kick and she likes her hot caffeine. I certainly wouldn't give her grief about it. Same with someone eating McDonald's. Why should they have to defend their taste to anyone? Why the hell should anyone else care?

Bullgrit


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> But, that's part of the problem. A sit down restaurant charges you more and you get more food. If you're on the go that food either goes to waste or you overeat. At McDonald's you can get a small sandwich, small fry, and a drink off the dollar menu for $3. A satisfying amount of food for a third of the price of most sit down restaurants. Before you have to tip your server that is.



Satisfying? I guess that depends what you are satisfying. Hunger? Maybe, but I doubt it. A craving? Sure, if it's a salt you are craving. As I said, for what they give you, they are overcharging you.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Cuke?




Guess you missed IT. Ask the Crowd around here.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> If someone likes the food at a particular place, who is anyone to tell them they should find something "better"? I don't chide the girl in my office who drinks Starbucks every day that she should drink water -- it's free and good for you. She likes coffee. It'd be absurd for her to have to defend her choice to me just because I'm on a health kick and she likes her hot caffeine. I certainly wouldn't give her grief about it. Same with someone eating McDonald's. Why should they have to defend their taste to anyone? Why the hell should anyone else care?
> 
> Bullgrit


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Guess you missed IT. Ask the Crowd around here.



I asked you. You're part of this crowd thing you speak of, correct?


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Satisfying? I guess that depends what you are satisfying. Hunger? Maybe, but I doubt it. A craving? Sure, if it's a salt you are craving. As I said, for what they give you, they are overcharging you.




Your reading comprehension has slipped a bit. I said specifically "a satisfying amount." The size of the burger and fries are enough. Pound for pound it may cost more, but if you're just overeating for your $9 at the good place what does that achieve for you? Show me the money you "saved."


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Your reading comprehension has slipped a bit. I said specifically "a satisfying amount."



Meh... I skimmed your post as I was reading something else at the same time.


> The size of the burger and fries are enough.



That depends on how hungry you are and how much you normally eat.  







> Pound for pound it may cost more, but if you're just overeating for your $9 at the good place what does that achieve for you?



Why do you have to overeat? You know you don't have to clean off the plate. Also, not every place serves you massive amounts of food.







> Show me the money you "saved."



Healthcare bills.


----------



## Deset Gled (Jan 31, 2014)

I don't eat fast food often.  Mainly when I'm traveling for work, when my priorities are time and cost (in that order).  

While I most often get fast food from the common chains, I prefer to get it from supermarkets when I can.  In addition to bakery stuff and fresh produce, most grocery stores now carry some form of hot food (mostly around lunch time).  It's sometimes better nutrition and cost than traditional fast food, and it's almost always fresher and comes with a better selection of sides and drinks.



Bullgrit said:


> chain restaurants




It's important to remember that (at the corporate level) large chain restaurants are a distribution system, not a food service.  You may be eating at a place with "Subway" on the sign, but you're actually sitting in JoeSchmo Restaurant Operations LLC.  The franchise owner buys/leases all of their materials from the corporation, including the food products, kitchen appliances, furniture, employee training materials, and licensed business models.  It's not just a lower cost of mass-produced food that keeps the cost of fast food down, its the lower cost of mass-produced everything.  

That's not to say this is a bad thing.


----------



## trappedslider (Jan 31, 2014)

so,let me ask this question:  Why is fast food evil which causes health issues but drinking beer or whatever your drink of choice is  isn't as bad as eating fast despite also causing health issues along with a few other issues?


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You know you don't have to clean off the plate. Also, not every place serves you massive amounts of food.




I already covered that. If you don't clean your plate, you are wasting food. Either choice is suboptimal. The places that don't serve 'massive' amounts are overcharging you like McDonald's then. I mean, that was one of your main complaints with them after all.

Restaurants use their own dirty tactics. The reason they give you (typically) so much food is to keep dollars/table at a healthy (for their financial bottom line) level.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> I already covered that. If you don't clean your plate, you are wasting food. Either choice is suboptimal.



Dude, take the leftovers home. You have another meal. Saved yourself time and money there.


> The places that don't serve 'massive' amounts are overcharging you like McDonald's then. I mean, that was one of your main complaints with them after all.



Maybe I didn't explain my complaint about the price being way too high for what they serve you. The quality of food they give you is not worth the price they charge you.
Additionally, not all restaurants charge you more than McDonald's for a meal. I have a few diners in the area that are family run. They serve you a decent amount of food (not too much, not too little), and they are cheap. I can go there with my GF and have breakfast and spend about as much as you would spend at McDonalds and get better quality food. 



> Restaurants use their own dirty tactics. The reason they give you (typically) so much food is to keep dollars/table at a healthy (for their financial bottom line) level.



So just do your research. I have several restaurants that I know I can go to at various times, to get particular food, or a certain amount of food for a certain price range. If I can do it, so can you.


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## Morrus (Jan 31, 2014)

I've never seen a taco.


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## PigKnight (Jan 31, 2014)

Morrus said:


> I've never seen a taco.




You need to swing by brah.


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## Morrus (Jan 31, 2014)

PigKnight said:


> You need to swing by brah.




Where's that? I've been to the US many times, and my main experience is so... much.... glowy.... melted.... cheese... on.... everything....

I'm always sick for the whole time I'm at Gen Con. NY was better, and the burritos in California were no better than those in England.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Dude, take the leftovers home. You have another meal. Saved yourself time and money there.




So you missed the part about not being home?



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Maybe I didn't explain my complaint about the price being way too high for what they serve you. The quality of food they give you is not worth the price they charge you.




Quality is subjective, that's why I referenced quantity. You can't impose your dislikes on others no matter how hard you try.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Additionally, not all restaurants charge you more than McDonald's for a meal. I have a few diners in the area that are family run. They serve you a decent amount of food (not too much, not too little), and they are cheap. I can go there with my GF and have breakfast and spend about as much as you would spend at McDonalds and get better quality food.
> 
> So just do your research. I have several restaurants that I know I can go to at various times, to get particular food, or a certain amount of food for a certain price range. If I can do it, so can you.




Good for you. You assume I haven't researched. No such places around here. They'd go out of business serving food that cheap. The best priced meal for sit-down is $6 for light fare. There used to be a diner like the one you describe 20 years ago in the town I grew up in. Could get the early-bird breakfast special for $2. They are no longer in business. Haven't been for a long time.

Now, for equal time with the internet guide hat, I *demand* that you go eat a whole bag of White Castle sliders.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Morrus said:


> Where's that? I've been to the US many times, and my main experience is so... much.... glowy.... melted.... cheese... on.... everything....
> 
> I'm always sick for the whole time I'm at Gen Con. NY was better, and the burritos in California were no better than those in England.



I think you need to hang out with Danny and let him take you to some Mexican places in Texas.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> So you missed the part about not being home?



You missed the part about _taking_ the leftovers home? If you happen to be out of town, you can take them to where you are staying.



> Quality is subjective, that's why I referenced quantity. You can't impose your dislikes on others no matter how hard you try.



No it isn't. Grade A beef is a much higher quality than grade C beef. 


> Good for you. You assume I haven't researched.



You are correct. I did make that assumption, and I probably shouldn't have. I figured if you haven't put in the effort to get a phone that would help you find restaurants, you would more than likely not take the time to research restaurants in the area. 







> No such places around here. They'd go out of business serving food that cheap. The best priced meal for sit-down is $6 for light fare. There used to be a diner like the one you describe 20 years ago in the town I grew up in. Could get the early-bird breakfast special for $2. They are no longer in business. Haven't been for a long time.



I'm curious, where do you live?


> Now, for equal time with the internet guide hat, I *demand* that you go eat a whole bag of White Castle sliders.



I've never tried White Castle. Actually, I've never seen a White Castle. They don't have them around here.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You missed the part about _taking_ the leftovers home? If you happen to be out of town, you can take them to where you are staying.




Example, on the way to a convention. Not staying. Nowhere to keep food other than the car. Where you keeping those leftovers? Hope you like food poisoning.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You are correct. I did make that assumption, and I probably shouldn't have. I figured if you haven't put in the effort to get a phone that would help you find restaurants, you would more than likely not take the time to research restaurants in the area.




The effort? Give me a break. You rail at McDonald's for their tactics, but the phone companies market how much you "need" the newest smartphone. I don't *need* to pay mandatory monthly data fees. I don't *need* to pay a cent for the actual phone. I just need something to make calls with whether at home or away. I have no land line, just cell phones for the family. I'm grandfathered in on a cheaper call plan because I prioritize my money to areas more important to me. I don't need all the extra junk that tries to microtransaction all ones money away. I certainly don't need it to find restaurants, since trips to FF places are negligible compared to more upscale places, both of which are negligible to home cooking.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Example, on the way to a convention. Not staying. Nowhere to keep food other than the car. Where you keeping those leftovers? Hope you like food poisoning.



Simple fix. Backpack (you'll probably have one of those anyways), and one of those reusable icepacks to keep kids lunches from spoiling. Done.



> The effort? Give me a break. You rail at McDonald's for their tactics, but the phone companies market how much you "need" the newest smartphone. I don't *need* to pay mandatory monthly data fees. I don't *need* to pay a cent for the actual phone. I just need something to make calls with whether at home or away. I have no land line, just cell phones for the family. I'm grandfathered in on a cheaper call plan because I prioritize my money to areas more important to me. I don't need all the extra junk that tries to microtransaction all ones money away. I certainly don't need it to find restaurants, since trips to FF places are negligible compared to more upscale places, both of which are negligible to home cooking.



You seems to have become upset. Maybe it's best we just end the discussion here. It was fun, but I'm not looking to argue with you.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You seems to have become upset. Maybe it's best we just end the discussion here. It was fun, but I'm not looking to argue with you.




Upset? Nah. Just get ranty about smartphones. Probably old age.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Jan 31, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Upset? Nah. Just get ranty about smartphones. Probably old age.



You forgot to yell "Get off my lawn!!!"


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## Dannyalcatraz (Jan 31, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I think you need to hang out with Danny and let him take you to some Mexican places in Texas.




Yeah, look me up, Mo!



> You know, I keep hearing people say that FF is cheap(er). I don't eat at FF restaurants, but a while ago I stopped in a McDonald's to take a piss. On my way out I looked at their menus, and I have to say, for the food they give you, they are overcharging you. The quantity and quality of food just isn't there to warrant what they charge. The only thing that seems to be worth it is the fountain drinks. You get free refills on those, but the rest of the meal? Nah...




Going back to the one FF meal I et on a regular basis, let us consider the Breakfast Jack.  It's a fried egg, a slice of ham (thicker Han I buy at the deli, but not a slab) and a piece of American cheese on a bun.  Two of those plus a large drink (in my case, unsweetened iced tea) totals between $3.40-4.20.  No tip.

If I go to the Local Diner (the actual name of the restaurant), the most similar meal on their menu, a _single_ sandwich with a fried egg, ham and cheese on my choice of bread (sourdough, usually) _without _ a drink costs $6.43.  Add a drink, add another dollar or so.  Add plain fries, onion rings or country potatoes, and that$/ another $2.25.  Plus tip.

IOW, if I actually had two sandwiches and a drink like I do at JitB, we're talking $15-16.

The key differences- and why i eat at each place are that JitB uses a plain bun while LD gives me slices of nice, buttered, toasted sourdough bread, which tastes better; experiencing the same physical sensation of "fullness" costs 3-5x as much at LD as it does at JitB.   But they're in completely different locations- when near LD,  I eat there, I eat at JitB when I'm nowhere near LD.


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## Morrus (Feb 1, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Yeah, look me up, Mo!




Next time I'm in your neighbourhood ...


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## Ahnehnois (Feb 1, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> Chain food is not bad. If you really believe that, you're saying that so many people want to eat bad food they'll make a bad restaurant successful enough to expand. Quite frankly, that's a ridiculous belief. You're saying that either the first restaurant changed to become bad so it could become a chain, or it's food was bad but somehow was successful enough to expand.



I don't think chain food is always bad. However, there are other issues here.

It's often a question of knowledge. Particularly when one is traveling, or entertaining guests from out of town, often the easiest thing to do is to eat at a restaurant where you know what you're going to get. Given the choice between Olive Garden and the neighborhood Italian place, the former is the safer choice. I find that I and other people eat at chains a lot more when we're traveling.

In some cases, the economic reality is that in some areas only chains can survive, and opening a local business is too big of a risk. I ordered Papa John's all the time when I lived in an isolated area and it was basically the only pizza available. Now that I live in a city full of small businesses, I would never do that because now I have better options (and because I know better). But a lot of where these restaurants make money is in essentially uncompetitive small-town situations or airports and other similarly restricted venues. There is a significant urban-rural cultural divide in this topic, I suspect.

However, it's also important that food that creates a pleasure response is not necessarily the best food. The big food vendors have put a lot of research into creating cheap and quasi-addictive food that is often very bad for you. McDonald's is example #1. I didn't stop eating there because I didn't enjoy eating their fries, I stopped because I found out what was in them (and because I got away from fries in general). The line between "food" and "drug" is somewhat artificially drawn, and there are food ingredients out there that probably have just as much reason to be banned as some of the drugs that are illegal for public health reasons.

There's also a legitimate anti-corporate point that probably risks infringing on ENW's politics ban, but suffice it to say even if the food at a chain was as good or better, I'd still rather buy from a local small business.



> Popular things don't get popular and stay popular for decades by being bad. McDonald's and Taco Bell aren't big chains because they're bland, pathetic food.



They don't get popular by being good either; any basic knowledge of the behavioral sciences will tell you that. Not that their food is irrelevant, it's simply one of many factors. The best musicians are not always the ones that sell the most albums, the best TV shows are not the ones with the highest ratings, and the best people are not the most popular ones.

Popularity arises from playing to the lowest common denominator, from marketing, from random pop culture trends, from cost, from all kinds of things. And sometimes from quality as well.

I just ate at a chain actually; a local four-restaurant chain that makes very good pizza but also is a business that does a lot of other things right. Local chains; wherein the ownership is still invested in the community and still has a sense of responsibility (and still is at risk if the business fails) are often excellent. Even national chains are sometimes good. Ben and Jerry's makes fantastic ice cream. Not the best, but certainly better than many.

...

It seems a pertinent analogy for a D&D site that D&D is not the best game in general, or even for most of us individually, simply the one that was most available. It's like a big chain.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 1, 2014)

> The line between "food" and "drug" is somewhat artificially drawn, and there are food ingredients out there that probably have just as much reason to be banned as some of the drugs that are illegal for public health reasons.




On this point, the FDA is considering declaring transfats unsafe for human consumption.  This could radically reshape the peanut butter industry: every one that you don't have to mix to use and refrigerate after opening is full of them.

I HATE cold PB, and the effort of mixing PB to the correct texture is a p.i.t.a. that, should this come to pass, I may never eat PB again.  (I already eschew almond butter, macadamia butter, etc.)


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## Kramodlog (Feb 1, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> If someone likes the food at a particular place, who is anyone to tell them they should find something "better"? I don't chide the girl in my office who drinks Starbucks every day that she should drink water -- it's free and good for you. She likes coffee. It'd be absurd for her to have to defend her choice to me just because I'm on a health kick and she likes her hot caffeine. I certainly wouldn't give her grief about it. Same with someone eating McDonald's. Why should they have to defend their taste to anyone? Why the hell should anyone else care?
> 
> Bullgrit



Umm... Coffee is good for you.


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## Ahnehnois (Feb 1, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> On this point, the FDA is considering declaring transfats unsafe for human consumption.



True, but they aren't considering any real regulations of a lot of the things that are effectively used to dress up crap food and make it taste good. There is no ban on MSG coming, or high-fructose corn syrup, or even regulations on amounts of basic things like salt and sugar and fat. But from a scientific perspective, the case for doing that is much stronger than for many other things that are heavily regulated.

The point is that I'm not saying that people don't or shouldn't like McDonald's. I'm saying that them liking it does not make it good. People like cocaine too, and for much the same reason (wasn't there a thread in this very forum on that a little while back?).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 1, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Umm... Coffee is good for you.




Depends on how much you drink- caffeine is both a diuretic and a stimulant.  it can cause dehydration, arrythmea, breathing trouble, sleep disruption, hallucinations, and vomiting.  While not physically addictive, caffeine withdrawal can cause several nasty physical symptoms, including the jitters, constipation and intense headaches.

So if the person in question had a Java Monkey on his or her back, suggesting they drink water might be good advice.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Feb 1, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> True, but they aren't considering any real regulations of a lot of the things that are effectively used to dress up crap food and make it taste good. There is no ban on MSG coming, or high-fructose corn syrup, or even regulations on amounts of basic things like salt and sugar and fat. But from a scientific perspective, the case for doing that is much stronger than for many other things that are heavily regulated.




Consider the proposed Trans-fat ban as a test case for measuring the FDA's power. If they do so, and it stands up to whatever challenges that arise, they'll fundamentally change a lot of processed foods, and will virtually annihilate store-shelf PB.  That's not just a food issue, it's a jobs & lifestyle issue.

Which will let them know if they have the political juice to go after MSG, added sweeteners, and meaningful regs on fat and salt...which would also mean going to war with the FF industry as a whole.

Quis custodiet et ipsos agricustodes?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Feb 1, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Consider the proposed Trans-fat ban as a test case for measuring the FDA's power. If they do so, and it stands up to whatever challenges that arise, they'll fundamentally change a lot of processed foods, and will virtually annihilate store-shelf PB.  That's not just a food issue, it's a jobs & lifestyle issue.
> 
> Which will let them know if they have the political juice to go after MSG, added sweeteners, and meaningful regs on fat and salt...which would also mean going to war with the FF industry as a whole.
> 
> Quis custodiet et ipsos agricustodes?



Sounds very sexy.


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## Ahnehnois (Feb 1, 2014)

[MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION]
Maybe. We'll see. There's a lot of politics that go into this stuff. Given what a mess the system that produces all this food is, and how entrenched some of the really bad policies are, I have a hard time seeing the public good winning out.

Of course, even if the FDA suddenly developed the ability to force all food vendors to sell only whole grains and vegetables, that wouldn't force the big fast food chains to start paying their workers, or stop all their anti-competitive practices and ethically dubious marketing, nor would it enable them to create fresh and creative food.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok (Feb 1, 2014)

Huh. Didn't know there was a possible attempt to ban trans-fats. Good thing I developed a taste for cold peanut butter.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Feb 1, 2014)

Ragnar_Lodbrok said:


> Huh. Didn't know there was a possible attempt to ban trans-fats. Good thing I developed a taste for cold peanut butter.



I find that leaving the PB jar out for a few minutes is enough to let it get soft and spreadable.


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## delericho (Feb 1, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> If someone likes the food at a particular place, who is anyone to tell them they should find something "better"? I don't chide the girl in my office who drinks Starbucks every day that she should drink water -- it's free and good for you. She likes coffee. It'd be absurd for her to have to defend her choice to me just because I'm on a health kick and she likes her hot caffeine. I certainly wouldn't give her grief about it. Same with someone eating McDonald's. Why should they have to defend their taste to anyone? Why the hell should anyone else care?
> 
> Bullgrit




Yes, exactly. This thread has been rather eye-opening to me in that regard.


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## Vyvyan Basterd (Feb 3, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> You forgot to yell "Get off my lawn!!!"




Buckshot's much more effective.



goldomark said:


> Umm... Coffee is good for you.




This week. And even if the coffee itself is good, most people aren't _just_ drinking coffee anymore. Kinda Starbucks whole model to add a bunch of other stuff.


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## Kramodlog (Feb 3, 2014)

Chains are evil.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Feb 3, 2014)

Vyvyan Basterd said:


> Buckshot's much more effective.



Depending where you are, that might get you shot, and it probably won't be buck shot.


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## Zombie_Babies (Feb 4, 2014)

You know, a smartphone, camera and a remote camera app can go a long way toward making sure you're the shooter and not the shoot-ee.


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