# Maure Castle OOC (Full)



## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Greetings one and all!

I've been reading the mega-adventure Maure Castle, released last summer in Dungeon Magazine, and it simply looks too fun not to give it a try! I'd like to DM this beast, if I can find four willing sacrificial lambs....I mean, brave adventurers.  

The starting character level is 12th, but I don't want to get into the nitty-gritty of character creation yet. I just need to know if the interest is out there. Before deciding to throw your hat in the ring, you should know the following....

This is an old-school adventure in the truest sense....an extensive dungeon crawl that is enormously challenging and deadly. Maure Castle was originally designed by Gary Gygax and Rob Kuntz, so that should tell you what you need to know (although this version is updated for D&D 3.5). Make sure this is something you're into before you reply. Character death is very probable, and players who have experience with nasty, high-level meat grinder-type dungeons would do best. Historical knowledge of the world of Greyhawk would also be a boon, though not mandatory. 

If this does indeed sound like your cup o' tea, give a shout. I think this will be a tremendously cool game, with the right players.

Thanks!
Heinz


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## Wystan (May 10, 2005)

I would like to join.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Interested.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Okay, that's two interested parties in a span of about 2 milliseconds.  


Here's what we need to do, since I don't want this to be a first-come, first-served type of thing.

Can interested parties please refer me to some other PBP game threads that you are participating in (either as player or DM)? Threads on ENWorld would be great, but links to other sites would also be fine. I really want to get a feel for what I can expect from prospective players before making my decisions.

edit: Actually, Voadam, your pedigree pretty much speaks for itself, looking at your reviews, longevity, and post count.  You're in!

Thanks!
Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

Krauss, I'm interested.  There's a link in my sig to the PbP games I play and DM.  Hopefully that should give you an idea of what kind of player I am.


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## JimAde (May 10, 2005)

Me too me too!   
See my sig for games I'm in.

I haven't played a game like this before, nor do I know much about Greyhawk, but I've always wanted to do a higher-level "classic" type game.  Sounds great (even if I get killed).


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

I'd be interested as well.  The PbP game I am running on EN World is in my sig.  Here is a link to a Grim Tales game in which I am a player.

EDIT: I am fairly knowledgeable on Greyhawk (and I have all four parts of the new map they put out in Dungeon   ), and would like to see what I could do with a high level character in such an advanture.  Sounds like an interesting and worthwhile challenge.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Cool. If you want to get a feel for some of the games I've played in you can check out Orkjaeger, Indypendant's Sunless Citadel, World of Warcraft, and Ashy's Oathbound in the playing the game forum.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Okay, I've seen enough.....

Voadam, Isida, JimAde, and Insight......you're all in.  (With apologies to Wystan).

You four are active posters with a wealth of experience....in short, exactly the kind of players I was hoping to attract.

Welcome!  Let's have some fun!

You guys/gals start throwing out some conceptual character ideas.  I'll have more specifics on the character creation rules shortly.  For now, you should know that I'm willing to consider just about any WoTC published rules source, so long as you cite everything that is non-core, and are prepared to explain the crunchy tidbits if I don't own that book.

Questions?  Fire away!

Thanks!
Heinz


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

I am fairly familiar with 1e grayhawk and ran a campaign there for years. I own but have not thoroughly read the 1e Maure castle (got it as a cheap pdf with a bunch of others and skimmed the Iconic PC sections, not the adventure itself) and do not get dungeon, although I wanted to pick this one up when I heard about it, just got to the waldenbooks too late and they had gone to the next issue.

I am happy with core rules only, WotC only, or anything with DM approval for sourcebooks. Just let me know the character creation guidelines you want.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

Four players, four classic slots to fill...

What should I be?  A powerful Nature's Warrior Druid?  A Radiant Servant of Pelor?  A versetile Exemplar?  Or a useful Dungeon Delver?  Perhaps a radiant Initiate of the Sevenfold Veil?  Or maybe I could persuade the DM to let me use some of my homebrew prestige classes to become a Bondblade warrior, or a destructive Acid Lord mage?  Maybe I could try out a warlock, and use my powers for the good?  Or perhaps I could be an exalted Celestial Mystic.

What is everyone else thinking of being?


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

*Character Creation Guidelines*

1. Sources Allowed...As stated previously, anything WoTC published is fair game. Material published by other 3rd-party developers will also be fair game, but subject to approval (some that I generally trust include Malhavoc, Green Ronin, Necromancer, Goodman). In any case, please provide references for all material that comes from any source other than the three Core Rulebooks. I may ask for more specific detail if I don't have access to the references cited. If you have an idea, and are in doubt as to whether it will be permissible, just ask.

2. Ability Scores....32 point buy at first level, then modified for race. Then, add in the three additional points for 4th, 8th, 12th level respectively.

3. Hit Points....Maximum at first level. Thereafter, Half a hit die plus 2 (for d8HD or larger), or half a hit die plus 1 (for d6HD or smaller). In all cases, add CON bonuses as normal.

4. Equipment and Wealth....Total of all posessions, magical and mundane, to be worth not more than 88,000 gp, per the DMG. No more than a quarter of that value (22,000 gp) to be invested in any single item (unless you can persuade me with a very good reason). If anyone wants to create magical items, the gp cost of said creation must come from the 88,000 total.

5. Experience...Starting xp will be 72,000. The extra 6,000 xp may be used to pay for magic item creation if you so wish. No character is allowed to start with less than 66,000 xp (the minimum required for 12th level).

6. For multi-class characters, please remember to include the order in which he/she advanced levels (important for skill point allocation, hit point totals, etc.)

Need anything else? Just give a shout!
Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

If someone has magic item creation feats, do they have any XP to play with?


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Right now I'm thinking a straight soulknife, I've never played a psionic character before.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> If someone has magic item creation feats, do they have any XP to play with?




Ha!  I just edited in the answer to the above post.  Submitted the first time a little too hastily.


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## JimAde (May 10, 2005)

Cool!  The soulknife a fight-ey type, so that leaves a sneaky-type, an arcane caster and a divine caster.

I'm playing a rogue in another game, so I'd like to go for one of the others.  How about a sorcerer?  Krauss, are you OK with the Draconic feats in Complete Arcane?


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

Hmmm, I have questions...  I'm considering a Radiant Servant of Pelor, but I also have a PrC that I made in a similar but different vein, called the Forbiddance of the Divine.  Obviously I need DM approval before taking that, however.   

My other option might be for a dungeon delver.  Of doom.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Cool! The soulknife a fight-ey type, so that leaves a sneaky-type, an arcane caster and a divine caster.
> 
> I'm playing a rogue in another game, so I'd like to go for one of the others. How about a sorcerer? Krauss, are you OK with the Draconic feats in Complete Arcane?




I don't own CArc, but I presume they would be okay.  Throw me some details, JimAde.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I have questions... I'm considering a Radiant Servant of Pelor, but I also have a PrC that I made in a similar but different vein, called the Forbiddance of the Divine. Obviously I need DM approval before taking that, however.
> 
> My other option might be for a dungeon delver. Of doom.




Sorry, Isida, but I'm most comfortable sticking to published sources.  This is just because I assume those to have been play-tested to work out balance problems, etc.  It doesn't mean I see any problems with your creation.

Your other options look like good choices, though.  Especially the Radiant Servant (which would leave Insight as taking on the Sneaky Role).

-Heinz


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## JimAde (May 10, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> I don't own CArc, but I presume they would be okay.  Throw me some details, JimAde.



 I'm at work so don't have the books.  They basically give you dragon-based abilities (mostly combat) like natural armor, energy resistance, a minor breath weapon, etc.  I will almost certainly be using a prestige class from the same book (though I don't know which one) since taking straight sorcerer levels just HURTS.   I will work on the character tonight and post more info and questions then.

Since I don't know Greyhawk well, the character's background will be pretty generic but I'll try to make it at least somewhat interesting.  As a sorcerer I'll have a big charisma and may end up taking the Leadership feat if that's OK with you (haven't decided yet).  If I do that, do you want me to write up my cohort as well, or would you prefer to do it?

I'm really looking forward to this.  Should be fun.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Kraus, since you are new to the boards and this is presumably your first pbp DMing do you want us to keep things relatively simple and avoid leadership, familiars, animal companions, etc. to reduce the bodies (and resulting accompanying rolls) to keep track of?


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Kraus, since you are new to the boards and this is presumably your first pbp DMing do you want us to keep things relatively simple and avoid leadership, familiars, animal companions, etc. to reduce the bodies (and resulting accompanying rolls) to keep track of?




No, I don't think that's necessary. Go ahead and take advantage of every possible assist you can get. You'll need it.

Besides, one of the things I like about PBP is that it affords the luxury of slowing down to review rulebooks, take notes, etc....the sort of thing that really hinders face-to-face role-playing.

That said, I will encourage you to remind me of any- and everything that's worth knowing about your PCs consistently, just so I don't make any mistakes.  

-Heinz


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## Wystan (May 10, 2005)

So with that sort of ruling I guess I will never get to play a PbP game. No priors..


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> I'm at work so don't have the books. They basically give you dragon-based abilities (mostly combat) like natural armor, energy resistance, a minor breath weapon, etc. I will almost certainly be using a prestige class from the same book (though I don't know which one) since taking straight sorcerer levels just HURTS.  I will work on the character tonight and post more info and questions then.
> 
> Since I don't know Greyhawk well, the character's background will be pretty generic but I'll try to make it at least somewhat interesting. As a sorcerer I'll have a big charisma and may end up taking the Leadership feat if that's OK with you (haven't decided yet). If I do that, do you want me to write up my cohort as well, or would you prefer to do it?
> 
> I'm really looking forward to this. Should be fun.




Sure, that stuff from Complete Arcane sounds fine.  You can go ahead and create your own cohort, and I'll review it for approval.

As for background, don't worry about it too much.  It probably will be simplest if we say that the PCs are already established as an adventuring company of some renown, and based out of the City of Greyhawk.  I'll throw a plot hook or two at you, but the general idea is to start out at the dungeon's door, so to speak.  That's the type of adventure this is.  Any detail that you want to fill in leading up to that point is a welcome bonus.

-Heinz


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Wystan said:
			
		

> So with that sort of ruling I guess I will never get to play a PbP game. No priors..




Keep checking the boards Wystan, in my experience most DMs allow players in on a first to post interest, first serve basis without regard for past posting. Each DM can have different player requirements though. Keep searching and you will probably find something here to join. That's how it was for me.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Wystan said:
			
		

> So with that sort of ruling I guess I will never get to play a PbP game. No priors..




I'm very apologetic about this....

And, please don't feel that you'll never get to play in a pbp.  I've actually given thought to running a game specifically for newcomers.  Who knows, I may just get to that one of these days.

For this particular adventure, however, that prior experience is a must.  Trust me, this adventure will be quite lethal even for knowledgable and savvy players.

You'll find a game for you if persevere.  I truly am sorry that this wasn't it.

-Heinz


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Cool, I kinda wanted the sneaky role when I first read about this game!  The trick is, well for me, are there any considerations of which we should be aware, especially in terms of how we get into the adventure?

For example, let's say I wanted to play a monster race, or have some sort of unusual class, is there anything I shouldn't try to do (that would hamper us getting into the adventure)... I would like to try something slightly out of the ordinary, and I wanted to make sure it would be doable.

Thanks for the invite by the way!


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

Wystan, I have and am currently running games for people new to Play by Post gaming.  Trust me, you'll be able to get in some games.  Just keep looking.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

Very well, in that case I shall indeed be a Radiant Servant of Pelor.  Hopefully I can start work on her within the next couple of days.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Insight, what do you want, clerical role or sneaky role?  I have concepts for both.




I wanna be a sneak!  Plus, with some of the things brewing in my head right now for this game, you guys probably don't want me to play the 'spiritual advisor'!  I'd be better off as the 'guy with questionable morals'.

Not that I can't play a Cleric... I'm just of a more 'grey area' mindset today.  I have to offset all the stuff I do in the 'goody-goody' game


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Since I will be the tank/warrior in the four person group I'll consider taking one to four levels of fighter or some other warrior class (paladin?) to get the heavy armor and higher BAB. 

Kraus, since the code and alignment restrictions of the paladin class are not there as a mechanical balance for the paladin class, would you mind if I dropped that part of the class. I like playing good guys but having the potential of disagreements with a DM about ethics or how to play my PC with loss of powers resulting I find no fun. No sweat if you are not comfortable dropping those mechanical risks for roleplaying restrictions, I'll consider just the fighter multiclass route then.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Cool, I kinda wanted the sneaky role when I first read about this game! The trick is, well for me, are there any considerations of which we should be aware, especially in terms of how we get into the adventure?
> 
> For example, let's say I wanted to play a monster race, or have some sort of unusual class, is there anything I shouldn't try to do (that would hamper us getting into the adventure)... I would like to try something slightly out of the ordinary, and I wanted to make sure it would be doable.
> 
> Thanks for the invite by the way!




You're welcome!

We'll say that you're already an adventuring company, and renowned enough to have earned the respect of Greyhawk's resident bigshots (Mordenkainen, Bigby, et al). Basically, they'll be sending you on a little errand... 

So, the sky's really the limit for trying something unusual! (Although just as a caveat, I've never really been a big fan of monstrous PC races....if that matters to you.)

edit: I should clarify, by 'monstrous' I'm referring to races that are traditionally evil, and antagonistic to PCs, like orcs, trolls, etc.  Good or neutral oriented races could be open to consideration, depending on what you have in mind.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Since I will be the tank/warrior in the four person group I'll consider taking one to four levels of fighter or some other warrior class (paladin?) to get the heavy armor and higher BAB.
> 
> Kraus, since the code and alignment restrictions of the paladin class are not there as a mechanical balance for the paladin class, would you mind if I dropped that part of the class. I like playing good guys but having the potential of disagreements with a DM about ethics or how to play my PC with loss of powers resulting I find no fun. No sweat if you are not comfortable dropping those mechanical risks for roleplaying restrictions, I'll consider just the fighter multiclass route then.




I agree with you, Voadam.  I am not heavy-handed or restrictive about alignments.  As long as your character stick consistently to his general 'good guy' mindset, he could certainly multi-class as a paladin without fear of ability loss.

-Heinz


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> 3. Hit Points....Maximum at first level. Thereafter, Half a hit die plus 2 (for d8HD or larger), or half a hit die plus 1 (for d6HD or smaller). In all cases, add CON bonuses as normal.
> 
> Heinz




Half a hit die round up or down? ie is a d10 half, 5.5, come out to 5 or 6 before the additions?


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## Krauss von Espy (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Half a hit die round up or down? ie is a d10 half, 5.5, come out to 5 or 6 before the additions?




Divide the max in half...so in this case, it's 5.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Since I will be the tank/warrior in the four person group I'll consider taking one to four levels of fighter or some other warrior class (paladin?) to get the heavy armor and higher BAB.
> 
> Kraus, since the code and alignment restrictions of the paladin class are not there as a mechanical balance for the paladin class, would you mind if I dropped that part of the class. I like playing good guys but having the potential of disagreements with a DM about ethics or how to play my PC with loss of powers resulting I find no fun. No sweat if you are not comfortable dropping those mechanical risks for roleplaying restrictions, I'll consider just the fighter multiclass route then.




Voadam, there are alternate Paladin types in Unearthed Arcana if you have that.  I believe there's a CG one and a few evil ones.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 10, 2005)

Krauss, I just had a smashing idea for a character, but I need to run it by you first.  I want to take the feat Devout Faith and Vow of Silence from Malhavoc Press' Book of Hallowed Might.  Would this be acceptable?

Essentially I wanted my character to have had a deep religious experience at a young age.  She heard angels singing, which inspired her to be a priest.  She believes if she is silent her whole life, she will be able to hear the angels again, if she is devout enough.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

The concept is coming together more.
Mindblade 8, paladin 4, sort of a psiknight from Rifts, minus the cyberware.

Combat, psionic, and divine feats are his feat focus.

I don't have the details in front of me but is the spell less paladin from Complete Warrior an option? I think they get a power every time they would get a new spell level.

point buy 32

str 10 =16+2 level 4,8 = 18 
dex 4=12
con 10=16
int 0=8
wis 0=8
cha 8=15+1 level 12=16

So 10 hp for first level, (+5+2)x11+ 12xcon = 113 hp.

I think I will be going human.

Two psionic feats that catch my eye are psionic weapon and greater psionic weapon.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Voadam, there are alternate Paladin types in Unearthed Arcana if you have that.  I believe there's a CG one and a few evil ones.




But I believe they all have codes you can lose your powers over. I have no problem taking a LG archetype or character concept, it is the DM/player different interpretation of codes and alignment in general with mechanical game penalties that I want to avoid.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> I agree with you, Voadam.  I am not heavy-handed or restrictive about alignments.  As long as your character stick consistently to his general 'good guy' mindset, he could certainly multi-class as a paladin without fear of ability loss.
> 
> -Heinz




Sounds good, thanks. Paladin smiter of evil good guy concept it is. A hero concept but not a selfless martyr or overly merciful one. Not that I expect this to come up in a classic dungeon crawl.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Cool, I kinda wanted the sneaky role when I first read about this game!  The trick is, well for me, are there any considerations of which we should be aware, especially in terms of how we get into the adventure?
> 
> For example, let's say I wanted to play a monster race, or have some sort of unusual class, is there anything I shouldn't try to do (that would hamper us getting into the adventure)... I would like to try something slightly out of the ordinary, and I wanted to make sure it would be doable.
> 
> Thanks for the invite by the way!




Doppelgangers are neutral, and awful sneaky.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Doppelgangers are neutral, and awful sneaky.




LOL that's exactly what I was thinking!

Here they are from the SRD:



> DOPPELGANGERS AS CHARACTERS
> Doppelganger characters possess the following racial traits.
> — +2 Strength, +2, Dexterity, +2 Constitution, +2 Intelligence, +4 Wisdom, +2 Charisma.
> —Medium size.
> ...




If I went this route, I would probably go Rogue 6, Thief-Acrobat 2.  That should equal 12 levels worth of goodies.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Sounds good, thanks. Paladin smiter of evil good guy concept it is. A hero concept but not a selfless martyr or overly merciful one. Not that I expect this to come up in a classic dungeon crawl.




Complete Adventurer has a PrC you might want to look at: Shadowbane Inquisitor.  They smite based on their perception of the acts, etc, not based on alignment.  Just a thought.


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> LOL that's exactly what I was thinking!
> 
> Here they are from the SRD:
> 
> ...




Four racial levels of monstrous humanoid plus four LA = 8/12 levels taken care of. So you would have only four levels to play around with, but they might qualify for thief acrobat pretty early in the chain, I don't know about the class' prereqs though.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Four racial levels of monstrous humanoid plus four LA = 8/12 levels taken care of. So you would have only four levels to play around with, but they might qualify for thief acrobat pretty early in the chain, I don't know about the class' prereqs though.




Hmm... I always seem to forget about the racial levels.  

I wonder if the DM would let me do 2 levels of Humanoid and the rest as regular character class levels.  The reason for this is that Humanoid is a sucky class level equivalent for the type of character I'm going for, especially considering the class skills aren't really what I would want.  Plus, I'm envisioning a Doppleganger who has been in human society for a long time, so he wouldn't have all those generic levels of Humanoid.

If not, I could do Rogue 4 and the rest as Doppleganger.  He would be OK, but the only thing that worries me is how well he would stack up with the other characters (and his effectiveness as a Rogue against what we'd be dealing with).


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## Voadam (May 10, 2005)

Unearthed Arcana has some option for reducing LA, but I'm not sure about its specifics.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

The other option I am considering is an afflicted Wererat (ECL 3) with say 6 levels of Rogue and 3 levels of some PrC (maybe Thief-Acrobat or something else).  It would be cool because we could say he acquired this a while back when the characters were lower level (instant history!) and has learned to deal with the problems it presents, plus the other characters are all aware of his affliction.


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## Pate Pot Pete (May 10, 2005)

I'll volenteer as an alternate, the only game I'm currently in ris The Acedemy as GM, this  is a grim and gritty superhero game. I don't know how much of a feel you can get for my stlye from that, if you choose to except my character I was thinking about playing a gnome Ranger/11 Infused Warrior 1.


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## Insight (May 10, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Unearthed Arcana has some option for reducing LA, but I'm not sure about its specifics.




I'll take a look when I get home and post what I find, in case it matters.  From what I recall, it uses XP, so maybe I could use the extra xp given out for magic item creators for this purpose?  If that's the case, I have some even cooler ideas in mind!

EDIT: OK, it looks like I would only be able to buy back 1 ECL worth of LA.  Basically, the way it works is this:

Start with your Starting LA.  This determines when you can 'buy back' a level worth of LA.  You take your LA x 3 and that's the next level at which you can 'buy back' LA.  So, someone with LA +1 can buy back their one level of LA at 3rd level or thereafter.  Someone with LA +2 could not buy off the first level of LA until 6th level, but then could again at 9th (since their new LA is +1).

The cost to 'buy back' LA is current ECL x 1,000 xp.  So, a character with LA +1 who buys back a level at 3rd (ECL 4) is 4,000 XP.  You cannot 'buy back' racial Hit Dice.

So my options for this are either to do LA +1 only and buy it completely off at 3rd or later (for a cost of 4,000 xp not counting racial hit dice) or take LA of +2 or more and just eat the difference.  Of course, I could buy off a level next time we got XP, but it would be (12+LA+Racial HD) x 1,000 XP, so that's a tall order. Or a third option if the GM allows it is to buy off a LA at 6th and let me be negative on XP until the next time we earn XP.  I would probably end up around 64k XP at start if this was allowed.


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## JimAde (May 11, 2005)

Sounds like two holy rollers and a shady rogue-type.  Guess I'll have to take the middle path.


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## Voadam (May 11, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Sounds like two holy rollers and a shady rogue-type.  Guess I'll have to take the middle path.




"God does not roll dice"   

Heinz, never mind on the spell less, it does not kick in until 6th level.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

I have a new kick butt character concept, but I need to find out if the DM is going to allow me to use the UA LA buy down rules.  It would be with a LA +1 race with no racial levels.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 11, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Krauss, I just had a smashing idea for a character, but I need to run it by you first. I want to take the feat Devout Faith and Vow of Silence from Malhavoc Press' Book of Hallowed Might. Would this be acceptable?
> 
> Essentially I wanted my character to have had a deep religious experience at a young age. She heard angels singing, which inspired her to be a priest. She believes if she is silent her whole life, she will be able to hear the angels again, if she is devout enough.




Isida, those feats would be fine.  I like this concept a lot!  Go ahead and run with it.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 11, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> "God does not roll dice"
> 
> Heinz, never mind on the spell less, it does not kick in until 6th level.




Okey-doke.  It would have been okay if you wanted to use it, though.

What you've got going so far looks good, Voadam (although I haven't checked your math yet).

Still, a good start.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 11, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> I have a new kick butt character concept, but I need to find out if the DM is going to allow me to use the UA LA buy down rules. It would be with a LA +1 race with no racial levels.




Sure, go ahead!  I don't mind using the LA buyback rules, but I won't allow any options that take you below 66,000 xp.  Your other concepts have been very interesting, especially the doppel. Let's see what you've got cooking now!

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 11, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Sounds like two holy rollers and a shady rogue-type. Guess I'll have to take the middle path.




Yes, indeedy.  This is shaping up to be a rather unique party.  Can't wait to see your draconic-tinged sorcerer, JimAde!

-Heinz


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Sure, go ahead!  I don't mind using the LA buyback rules, but I won't allow any options that take you below 66,000 xp.  Your other concepts have been very interesting, especially the doppel. Let's see what you've got cooking now!
> 
> -Heinz




OK here's the idea (this one also gives the group a bit of backstory).  

A Tiefling Rogue who has always been the black sheep of the party.  A while back, he was captured and held by the Scarlet Brotherhood.  He returned to the party a few years later a completely changed man.  While he still makes use of his skills at stealth and intrusion, he is equally proficient with deception and unarmed combat.  And no one quite knows what he's thinking.  All they can see is a strange ritual tattoo on his chest, a white mask...

Odd as he may seem, and not at all the same happy go lucky scoundrel who was captured all those years ago, he has a renewed sense of purpose, and can still be quite a useful member of the party when he wants to.  Note that he has never done anything to harm anyone in the group, though his methods are sometimes ruthlessly efficient and occasionally self serving.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 11, 2005)

Ok, here's the first draft of my character.    Lemme know if there's any glaring (or not so glaring) errors.

*Silence
Female Human Cleric of Pelor 6/ Radiance Servant of Pelor 6*
_Medium Humanoid_
*Alignment:* Neutral Good
*Patron Deity:* Pelor
*Region:* 
*Height:* 5' 10''
*Weight:* 153lbs
*Hair:* Light Brown
*Eyes:* Hazel
*Age:* 33

*Str:* 8 (-1) [0 points]  
*Dex:* 8 (-1) [0 points]
*Con:* 13 (+1) [5 points] 
*Int:* 12 (+1) [4 points]  
*Wis:* 24 (+7) [13 points, +3 levels, +4 periapt] 
*Cha:* 20 (+5) [10 points, +4 headband] 

*Class and Racial Abilities:*
Extra feat at first level, 4 extra skill points at first level, 1 additional skill point at each level thereafter.  Divine spells, aura of good, proficient in simple weapons, all armors and shields (but not tower shields), turn undead, Sun, Good, and Glory domains.  Extra greater turning 8/day, radiance (radiance of illumination doubled, spell treated at one level higher), turn undead (12/day, as 14th level cleric, +9 total to the check, additional +1d6 damage), divine health (immune to all diseases, including magical ones), empower healing/maximize healing, aura of warding (Silence and all within 10 ft. gain +2 to Will saves), bonus domain (glory).

*Hit Dice:* 6d8+6d6+12
*HP:* 74
*AC:* 15 (-1 Dex, +5 armor, +1 ring) [touch 10, flat-footed 14]
*Init:* -1 (-1 Dex)
*Speed:* 30ft 

*Saves:*
Fortitude +15 [+10 base, +1 Con, +2 from cloak, +2 vow]
Reflex +7 [+4 base, -1 Dex, +2 from cloak, +2 vow]
Will +23 [+10 base, +7 Wis, +2 from cloak, +2 vow, +2 Radiant Servant]

*BAB:* +8/+3
*Melee Atk:* +8/+3 (1d8/x2/B, Headknocker, +1 _radiant_ heavy mace)  
*Ranged Atk:* +7/+2 (1d8/19-20/x2/80 ft./P, light crossbow)

*Skills:*
Concentration +16  [15 ranks, +1 Con]
Heal +24 [15 ranks, +7 Wis, +2 vow]
Knowledge (religion) +18  [15 ranks, +1 Int, +2 vow]
Perform (wind instruments) +14 [15cc ranks, +5 Cha, +2 MW instrument]

*Feats:*
Devout Faith (1st level) (BoHM)
Vow of Silence (human bonus 1st level) (BoHM)
Silent Spell (3rd level)
Extra Turning (6th level)
Still Spell (9th level) 
Sacred Healing (12th level) (ComDiv)

*Languages:*  Common, Celestial

*Spells Prepared*
Save DC +7
0th - _create water, detect magic, detect poison x2, mending, read magic_
1st - _Silent detect magic x2, Silent light, Silent purify food and drink, Silent resistance x2.  (D) – protection from evil_
2nd - _Silent bless x2, Silent cure light wounds x2, Silent protection from evil, Silent shield of faith.  (D) - aid_
3rd - _Silent align weapon x3, Silent lesser restoration x2, Silent remove paralysis.  (D) – searing light_
4th - _Silent blast of castigation (BoHM), Silent flame of faith (ComDiv), Silent prayer, Silent mass lesser vigor (ComDiv).  (D) – holy smite_
5th - _Silent cure critical wounds x2, Silent neutralize poison, Silent recitation (ComDiv).  (D) – flame strike_
6th - _Silent break enchantment, Silent Still freedom of movement, Silent mass cure light wounds.  (D) – bolt of glory (ComDiv)_

*Equipment*
*Periapt of Wisdom +4* – 16,000gp
*Headband of Charisma +4* – 16,000gp
*Metamagic rod of Silence (regular)* x2 – 22,000gp
*Metamagic rod of Silent (lesser)* x2 – 6,000gp
*Warding Word* (_ring of protection +1_, 2,000gp)
*Tymora's Favor* (_cloak of resistance +2_, 4,000gp)
*Sun Striker, +1 radiant (AaEG) heavy mace* – 18,312gp
*Pelor’s Shield, +1 sacred chain shirt* – 9,250gp
*Light crossbow and 30 bolts* – 38gp
_*Heward's Handy Haversack*_ (2,000gp)
*Belt pouch* 1gp
*Traveler’s outfit* (free)
*Silver holy symbol* 25gp
*Signal whistle* – 8sp
*MW recorder* – 100gp
~*Bedroll*  5sp
~*3 healer’s kits* 150gp
~ *Everburning torch* 110gp
~ *Waterskin* 1gp
~ *50 ft. silk rope* 10gp
~ *Silver dagger* 10gp
~ *Paper (10 sheets)* 4gp
~ *Ink (two vials)* 16gp
~ *Inkpen* 1gp
~ *Trail rations (20 days worth)* 10gp
~ *Cleric’s vestments* 5gp
~ *Cold weather outfit* 8gp
~*Slate and 100 pieces of chalk* 2gp
~*6 carved wooden shingles with the following messages carved on them*


> ”My name is Silence.  I am a priestess of Pelor, a healer and foe of undead.  I have taken a sacred vow not to speak.”
> 
> “I took my sacred vow because when I was young I heard angels singing.  The echoes are in my head still, and if I speak I will lose them.  I remain silent to show my reverence that they would sing to me.”
> 
> ...




*Money*
54gp, 5sp

*Appearance:* 
http://elfwood.lysator.liu.se/art/a/l/alfred/angela.jpg.html
Silence is an older human woman, not quite middle age, but past the first blush of youth.  Her light brown hair is long and worn loose most of the time.  She wears cream-colored robes of a conservative cut, and a golden holy symbol of Pelor around her neck.  She has a delicate build, but does not shy away from the armaments of battle when necessary.

*Personality:*  Silence is a giving and caring individual, expressive in gesture and expression.  She is very tolerant of the differences of others, reserving judgment until she has seen them in action, for actions speak far louder than words.  She has been known to express her feelings through music when words fail her, using faint echoes of her angels’ song as a guide.  

*Background:* When Silence was a little girl, she became lost in the wilderness far from her parent’s farm in late autumn.  Wandering far as children are apt to do, she was unable to find her way home.  For many days she wandered, her only companions the creatures of the forest.  Miraculously she was not hurt by any predators, and the sun always shone down strongly upon her to keep her warm.  On the fourth day, weak from hunger, she laid herself down upon a sun-warmed rock to rest.  She awoke to the sound of glorious music, as divine as any she’d ever heard.  She turned her face to the sun, and saw that beautiful angels were singing to her.  She followed their voices, and soon found herself back on her family’s land.

Her parents were ecstatic with joy when she returned, but immediately noticed something strange.  Their daughter would no longer talk.  The village priest and healer could find nothing wrong with her that could account for that, and took it upon himself to teach her reading and writing so that she could explain.  She wrote that she had heard the voices of angels, and their echoes rang in her head still.  But if she spoke, she would lose the echoes, echoes she wanted to hear badly.  The priest gladly took her under his wing when she wrote that she felt that if she served Pelor, one day would be able to hear the angels again.

She has spent the past twenty-four years serving Pelor as a Radiant Servant, and still feels she has much more to do to be prepared for the angelic choir.  She has begun to seek out great evils to pit herself against, as well as spreading healing to all she can.  

To combat the limitations of her vow, she has taken to carrying around a set of six thin, flat shingles, onto which she has carved some commonly asked questions and answers.  She also carries a slate and chalk to cover anything not on her shingles.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 11, 2005)

Thanks, Isida!  I'll begin checking everything out on Silence's sheet shortly.  I'll let you know if I have any questions.

Oh, and if any of the rest of you spot anything that needs attention, I'd appreciate the head's up.  The more eyes the merrier! (Or....something).

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 11, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> OK here's the idea (this one also gives the group a bit of backstory).
> 
> A Tiefling Rogue who has always been the black sheep of the party. A while back, he was captured and held by the Scarlet Brotherhood. He returned to the party a few years later a completely changed man. While he still makes use of his skills at stealth and intrusion, he is equally proficient with deception and unarmed combat. And no one quite knows what he's thinking. All they can see is a strange ritual tattoo on his chest, a white mask...
> 
> Odd as he may seem, and not at all the same happy go lucky scoundrel who was captured all those years ago, he has a renewed sense of purpose, and can still be quite a useful member of the party when he wants to. Note that he has never done anything to harm anyone in the group, though his methods are sometimes ruthlessly efficient and occasionally self serving.




Sounds good, Insight!

-Heinz


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## Voadam (May 11, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> OK here's the idea (this one also gives the group a bit of backstory).
> 
> A Tiefling Rogue who has always been the black sheep of the party.  A while back, he was captured and held by the Scarlet Brotherhood.  He returned to the party a few years later a completely changed man.  While he still makes use of his skills at stealth and intrusion, he is equally proficient with deception and unarmed combat.  And no one quite knows what he's thinking.  All they can see is a strange ritual tattoo on his chest, a white mask...
> 
> Odd as he may seem, and not at all the same happy go lucky scoundrel who was captured all those years ago, he has a renewed sense of purpose, and can still be quite a useful member of the party when he wants to.  Note that he has never done anything to harm anyone in the group, though his methods are sometimes ruthlessly efficient and occasionally self serving.




Did we rescue you from the brotherhood?

Just make sure he does not detect as evil because it would be the first thing I'd check. And if you showed as evil I would work to rescue you from the changes they inflicted upon you. I plan on using detect evil as a detect enemies type of power at doors, having you trip it would spoil that (in addition to the paladin stuff).


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## JimAde (May 11, 2005)

Hey, characters are looking great.  I'm still working on back-story for mine, but here's what I'm thinking mechanically:

Human Sorcerer 8/Elemental Savant 4

I don't want to take any more levels of Elemental Savant because the 5th level doesn't advance spellcasting, and I want that 6th level spell (whatever I decide it should be).

This character will have 6 feats, which will be Energy Substitution, Empower Spell plus as many draconic feats as I can get.  These will include:

Draconic Heritage - the prerequisite for all the others.  You choose which type of dragon you are descended from and that gives you one skill as a class skill.
Draconic Breath - Minor breath weapon
Another feat (the name escapes me) that gives resistance to the type of energy your dragon uses

So both Elemental Savant and the draconic feats require you to choose an energy type.  Obviously I want this to be the same, but I can't decide which energy type would be best.  My choices are:

Acid (Earth element, Black or Copper Dragon)
Fire (Fire element, Red or Gold Dragon)
Cold (Water element, White or Silver Dragon)
Electricity (Air element, Blue or Bronze Dragon)

Any opinion from the group on which element rawks the most?    I'm leaning toward Electricity and making my 6th-level spell Chain Lightning.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Did we rescue you from the brotherhood?
> 
> Just make sure he does not detect as evil because it would be the first thing I'd check. And if you showed as evil I would work to rescue you from the changes they inflicted upon you. I plan on using detect evil as a detect enemies type of power at doors, having you trip it would spoil that (in addition to the paladin stuff).




He came back on his own.  Just wandered into your midst as if he had never been gone.  He doesn't like to talk about what happened while a captive of the Scarlet Brotherhood, though he is obviously changed for the experience.

He does not detect as evil.  Likewise, he seems very resistant to magical attempts to determine his alignment, read his mind, etc.  If you guys would try any of those, anyway.

I need to come up with a name.  'He' is getting kind of old LOL.

I'll post 'him' soon.  Still need to make some final decisions on equipment and such.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 11, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> So both Elemental Savant and the draconic feats require you to choose an energy type.  Obviously I want this to be the same, but I can't decide which energy type would be best.  My choices are:
> 
> Acid (Earth element, Black or Copper Dragon)
> Fire (Fire element, Red or Gold Dragon)
> ...



  I like electricity.  Storms are cool.  They go BOOM!


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## Voadam (May 11, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> He came back on his own.  Just wandered into your midst as if he had never been gone.  He doesn't like to talk about what happened while a captive of the Scarlet Brotherhood, though he is obviously changed for the experience.
> 
> He does not detect as evil.  Likewise, he seems very resistant to magical attempts to determine his alignment, read his mind, etc.  If you guys would try any of those, anyway.
> 
> ...




Well, detect evil is going to be part of my dungeon checking SOP before going into new rooms to see if I can detect enemies. And as a hero concept if my guy (I need to come up with name as well) knew you were captured by the evil manipulative assassin evil monk SB, he would want to rescue him. And then if he just showed up, seeming changed in aspect with a new tattoo, new martial arts, and "not want to talk about it" that would seem very suspicious and detect evil would probably be the first thing I'd do to see if they had converted you through brainwashing and an atonement spell to turn evil and join their cult faith.

And anytime we adventured together after you came back the DE SOP for enemy sweeping would be in action under appropriate circumstances.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Well, detect evil is going to be part of my dungeon checking SOP before going into new rooms to see if I can detect enemies. And as a hero concept if my guy (I need to come up with name as well) knew you were captured by the evil manipulative assassin evil monk SB, he would want to rescue him. And then if he just showed up, seeming changed in aspect with a new tattoo, new martial arts, and "not want to talk about it" that would seem very suspicious and detect evil would probably be the first thing I'd do to see if they had converted you through brainwashing and an atonement spell to turn evil and join their cult faith.
> 
> And anytime we adventured together after you came back the DE SOP for enemy sweeping would be in action under appropriate circumstances.




That's fine.  Detect Evil all you want.  I promise my character will not show up.  You don't need to worry about that   

All he will tell you about his newly acquired abilities is that yes, the Scarlet Brotherhood began to train him to be one of their assassins.  The training was not completed.  It turns out he had a very good reason for sticking around, and got what he needed out of them.  The SB may actually be looking for him, in case anyone is wondering.

Remember one thing as well.  Tieflings are inherently evil.  Now there's no reason they can't 'grow out of it' and take on another alignment, but the demonic blood in their veins is always tempting them to do evil.  In our past experiences (especially prior to being captured), my char (still needs a name darnit) did not do anything overtly evil.  I don't know if that means he would have shown up on Detect Evil before.  But in terms of his alignment (OOC of course) he would have been like Chaotic Neutral with Evil tendencies.  He has obviously changed since he was gone, and he does not detect as evil right now.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Hey, characters are looking great.  I'm still working on back-story for mine, but here's what I'm thinking mechanically:
> 
> Human Sorcerer 8/Elemental Savant 4
> 
> ...




Another vote for electricity!  Also, if my character is in the way, go ahead and fire... I have Evasion and my Reflex save is absolutely disgusting!


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## JimAde (May 11, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Another vote for electricity!  Also, if my character is in the way, go ahead and fire... I have Evasion and my Reflex save is absolutely disgusting!



 Cool.  Electricity it is!  A Bronze dragon got busy somewhere in my character's background.  I should be able to post the character tonight.

Heinz: I will be taking a prestige class and possibly several spells from Complete Arcane along with the Draconic feats.  I will include write-ups of any Complete Arcane material in my character, so it will be a pretty long post.  I don't think I'll have room for that Leadership feat after all, so that's one less complication.


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## Voadam (May 11, 2005)

Will you have haste? I'm trying to decide between boots that give haste for 10 rounds or winged boots. I'm leaning towards the haste ones.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Will you have haste? I'm trying to decide between boots that give haste for 10 rounds or winged boots. I'm leaning towards the haste ones.




mmmm.... Haste....   

Yeah, I'd be interested in what buffing spells everyone can cast on, well, me specifically.  Area buff spells are good too.


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## JimAde (May 11, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Will you have haste? I'm trying to decide between boots that give haste for 10 rounds or winged boots. I'm leaning towards the haste ones.



 Yes I was planning to take Haste (as well as a big dex).  It fits in well with the whole "fast as lightning" thing.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 11, 2005)

Bless, prayer, mass lessor vigor (which gives fast healing 1 for 12 rounds in my case).  Also I have a host of healing spells and other utility spells (break enchantment, remove paralysis, neutralize poison, freedom of movement), in addition to ass-kicking spells like flame strike, blast of castigation, holy smite, and searing light.  I think you'll find me useful.


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## Voadam (May 11, 2005)

+4 on fear saves for companions close to my heart (five or ten feet, have to look it up).

A little healing as well.

Uh yeah, I think that is it.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 11, 2005)

Ah, I forgot, anyone within 10 ft. of me gets a +2 to their Will saves.  Aura of Warding, gotta love it.  And all my healing spells are maximized.


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## JimAde (May 11, 2005)

I'll be taking a few buffs, but mostly concentrating on the "crack-boom!".

I'm also thinking of spending a good chunk of my funds on scrolls and wands of spells I don't have (like buffs).  More details tonight.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 11, 2005)

My "job" in the party will be split between keeping you guys healthy and functional and blowing up the opposition.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

Cool.  I'm going to try to post my character today/tonight.  Whenever I feel like it's really close to being done.  Just trying to find some time to work on magic items.


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## Insight (May 11, 2005)

*Tanus*

Here's the first draft of Tanus, your friendly neighborhood Tiefling Rogue/Monk.

*TANUS THE SALIENT*
*Tiefling Rogue 5, Monk 6, Tattooed Monk 1*
*** LA +1 bought off at 3rd for 4k xp ***
68,000 xp

*Description*
Gender: Male
Age: 30
Heritage: Suloise (Tiefling; Marilith Descent)
Hair: White
Eyes: Steel Blue
Height: 5'10"
Weight: 175 lbs.
Distinguishing Marks: Tattoo of a White Mask on Chest

*Ability Scores*
STR 15 (8) -> 18 (+4)
DEX 15 (8) -> 22 (+6)
CON 11 (3) -> 11 (+0)
INT 11 (3) -> 14 (+2) (+1 sk/lvl 1-3, +2 sk/lvl at 4th+)
WIS 14 (6) -> 18 (+4)
CHA 12 (4) -> 10 (+0)

*HP, BAB, Saves, Etc.*
HD 4d6+7d8+6
HP 64
AC: 27 (+6 dex, +2 class, +4 wis, +2 armor, +1 natural)
BAB +7
Fort +10
Ref +19
Will +14
Move 60

*Racial Abilities - Tiefling*
Darkvision out to 60 feet.
Racial Skills: Tieflings have a +2 racial bonus on Bluff and Hide checks.
Special Attacks: Darkness.
Special Qualities: Resistance to cold 5, electricity 5, and fire 5.
Favored Class: Rogue.

*Class Abilities - Rogue*
Sneak Attack +3d6
Trapfinding
Evasion
Trap Sense +1
Uncanny Dodge (Retains Dodge bonus to AC)

*Class Abilities - Monk*
Flurry of Blows -1/-1
Unarmed Damage 2d8+4
Still Mind (+2 vs Enchantment)
Ki Strike - Magic
Slow Fall 30'
Ac Bonus: Class +1, Wis +2
Purity of Body - Immune to nonmagical diseases

*Class Abilities - Tattooed Monk*
Tattoo - White Mask (Immune to detect thoughts, detect lies, or any attempt to
discern alignment, +10 to Bluff checks)

*Skills*
Appraise (3) +5, Balance (5) +13, Bluff (8) +20, Disable Device (8) +12, Disguise (3) +3/+5, Escape Artist (5) +17, Hide (10) +18, Jump (5) +16, Listen (8) +12, Move Silently (10) +16, Open Lock (6) +18, Search (8) +10/+15, Sense Motive (10) +14, Sleight of Hand (1) +9, Spot (8) +12, Tumble (10) +18.

*Languages*
Common, Draconic, Infernal.

*Feats*
1 - Endurance
3 - Combat Expertise
6 - Imp Feint
Monk 1 - Stunning Fist (FSDC 22, 8/day)
Monk 2 - Combat Reflexes (Max 7 AoO/round)
Monk 6 - Improved Trip
9 - Imp Grapple
12 - Ascetic Rogue 

*Items*
[Slot - Head]: Headwrap of Clarity (+4 to Wis, 16,000gp)
[Slot - Eyes]:
[Slot - Neck/Amulet]: Amulet of Natural Armor +1 (2,000gp)
[Slot - Vest/Shirt]: Vest of Escape (5,200gp)
[Slot - Armor/Robe]: Robes of Fluid Motion (+4 to Dex, 16,000gp)
[Slot - Belt]: Monk's Belt (13,000gp)
[Slot - Cloak/Cape]: Cloak of Resistance +2 (4,000gp)
[Slot - Arms/Bracers]: Bracers of Armor +2 (4,000gp)
[Slot - Gloves/Gaunt]: Gauntlets of Ogre Power +2 (4,000gp)
[Slot - Ring 1]: 
[Slot - Ring 2]:
[Slot - Boots]: Boots of Striding & Springing (5,500gp)
[Other Items (Non slotted)]: Bag of Holding Type I (250 lb. capacity, 2,500 gp), Dust of Disappearance (3,500gp), Rope of Climbing (3,000gp), 10 Uses of Silversheen (2,500gp)

[Potions]: 3x Cure Mod Wounds (2d8+5, 900gp), 2x Fly (1,500gp), Levitate (300gp), Resist Fire 10 (300gp), Resist Cold 10 (300gp), 3x Shield of Faith +4 (2,400gp), Spider Climb (300gp)

[Other Items]: Masterwork Thieves' Tools (100gp), Quarterstaff.

[Wealth]: 50 PP

*Background*
Work in Progress


----------



## Krauss von Espy (May 12, 2005)

Hi all!

It's been a busy day at work for me, so I need to keep this brief. It's great to see all the activity today. I said it before and I'll say it again...this party is going to be sah-weeeet. I may actually feel somewhat badly about the slaughter to come. But, please....carry on.

One bit of not-so-good news from today is that my friend (who I usually bug to borrow rule books) is out of town for 10 days or so. Thus, I have no means of checking the details of a lot of your rules choices. Thus, I need you to fill me in on the crunchy bits of relevance in many cases. Here's what I'll need to check out your sheets completely.

Isida: Stuff from Complete Divine, Book of Hallowed Might, Arms and Equipment Guide.

JimAde: Stuff from Draconomicon, Complete Arcane.

Insight: Stuff from....hmm, nothing I guess. I do own Complete Warrior, and it doesn't look like you used anything else non-Core. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.

Voadam: I do have the Expanded Psionics Handbook, so you don't need to help me with any material from there. If you use anything else non-Core, I might need details. One question, though: I'm not sure what a Mindblade is....did you mean Soulknife 8/Paladin 4 perchance?

Anyhow...I'm sorry to make you guys do this extra work, but I just can't afford to buy every book WoTC puts out. My sickness doesn't run that deep!  

I also wanted to mention that I think we could see a lot of fun interpersonal tension between Tanus and Voadam's character. Obviously, they must have learned to put aside their differences and work together by now....but I still see a lot of cool role-playing possibilities.

Thanks everybody! Keep up the good work!

-Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 12, 2005)

Heinz, can we get an e-mail address please?


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## Krauss von Espy (May 12, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Heinz, can we get an e-mail address please?




Certainly!

heinzthebaron (at) yahoo (dot) com


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 12, 2005)

Heinz, everything is sent.


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## Insight (May 12, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Insight: Stuff from....hmm, nothing I guess. I do own Complete Warrior, and it doesn't look like you used anything else non-Core. If I'm mistaken, please let me know.




Nope.  Nothing nonstandard really.  The only thing I did out of the ordinary was creating my own magic items using the rules in the SRD.  Basically put two functions in one item.  Nothing terribly outlandish LOL



> I also wanted to mention that I think we could see a lot of fun interpersonal tension between Tanus and Voadam's character. Obviously, they must have learned to put aside their differences and work together by now....but I still see a lot of cool role-playing possibilities.
> 
> Thanks everybody! Keep up the good work!
> 
> -Heinz




I imagine that Tanus and the unnamed Paladin character (Voadam) would have worked together very well before, at least in the fact that Tanus' ability to get behind enemies and flank them, sneak attack, etc would have benefited the Pally, and Tanus would have needed a melee tank to compliment what he does.  

Now that Tanus has returned a changed man, I can definitely see some interesting interchanges between the two.  Tanus is no longer the happy go lucky rogue, but a solemn and determined fellow who dresses a lot differently   

Still, the new Tanus is an enigma of sorts, which is fun to play!


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## Insight (May 12, 2005)

I think what might be fun for all of us is to create a backstory for our group.  We could work on it collectively, and come up with a mutual history of sorts.  What do the rest of you think?

Also, does everyone have access to Greyhawk resources?  If you don't own the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, there are a few good websites out there with information.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (May 12, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> I think what might be fun for all of us is to create a backstory for our group. We could work on it collectively, and come up with a mutual history of sorts. What do the rest of you think?
> 
> Also, does everyone have access to Greyhawk resources? If you don't own the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, there are a few good websites out there with information.




I think this is a great idea!  I'll be more than happy to throw in my two cents as well, if you want any additional input.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 12, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Heinz, everything is sent.




Thank you, Isida!


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## JimAde (May 12, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> I think what might be fun for all of us is to create a backstory for our group.  We could work on it collectively, and come up with a mutual history of sorts.  What do the rest of you think?
> 
> Also, does everyone have access to Greyhawk resources?  If you don't own the Living Greyhawk Gazetteer, there are a few good websites out there with information.



 I think this is a good idea, too.  When I post my character (sorry for the delay, but I _have _made some progress) his history will basically be up to the point he met the rest of the group, and we can work on the rest together. 

But as Heinz has said, the history probably won't come up much in the game itself.

Heinz: So it turns out that the class features of Elemental Savant and some of the Draconic feats overlap.  That's fine but it means I won't be taking as many Draconic feats as I anticipated.  Here's what I'm taking:

*Empower Spell *
  Always useful, and a Metamagic feat is a prereq for...
*Energy Substitution (Electrical)* 
  Allows me to switch any spell that has an energy description like Fire or Acid to be Electrical instead.  This raises the spell level one, but is actually superseded by a feature of the Elemental Savant class (see below).  Is also a prereq for Elemental Savant, along with some ranks in Knowledge(Arcana) and Knowledge(The Planes).
*Sculpt Spell*
  Allows me to cast any spell with an are as either a 20' spread, 60' line, 40' cone or 4 10' cubes.  The description doesn't say if these cubes have to be adjacent and there is considerable debate on the issue.  Whatever you rule is fine by me.  Raises the casting level by (I think) two.  I'll check on that.
*Draconic Heritage - Bronze*
  Prereq for other Draconic feats.  Makes Electrical the draconic energy type (for Draconic Breath and other things) and makes Survival a class skill.
*Draconic Power* 
  Cast spells with associated energy descriptor (electrical) at +1 Caster Level 
*Draconic Breath*
  Convert spell slots to 2d6 electricity per spell level, 60' line.  So if I gave up a 2nd level spell it would do 4d6 (reflex half) in a 60' line.  If I converted a 6th leve slot it would do 12d6.  This is actually not that useful, since I will have attack spells that do electrical damage that will almost always be better.  I really just like the flavor.

The Elemental Savant class is a full caster progression (so I'll cast as a 12th-level sorcerer) with a d4 hit die, good Will save, poor BAB, and by 4th level gives me the following:

All damaging energy spells are automatically converted to Electrical damage.  This does not raise the level of the spell so it largely supersedes Energy Substitution (which is a requirement for the class).

Energy Resistance (Electrical) 10.

Immunity to Sleep effects.  The class slowly turns you into an Outsider, and this is the first step.

Ack.  There's more but I can't remember it.  Anyway, I'm planning to take some handy attack spells like Scorching Ray which will automatically be electrical when I cast them.  Of course, I just KNOW we'll be messing with creatures that are immune to electrical damage. 

More to follow.


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## Voadam (May 12, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Voadam:  I'm not sure what a Mindblade is....did you mean Soulknife 8/Paladin 4 perchance?




Mental slip in terminology on my part, yes, soulknife 8/paladin 4.


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## Insight (May 12, 2005)

Did anyone end up picking up item creation feats?  I am perhaps interested in having one made once the game starts.  Of course, the only real slots I have open are rings, and I doubt anyone has Forge Ring...


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## JimAde (May 12, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Did anyone end up picking up item creation feats?  I am perhaps interested in having one made once the game starts.  Of course, the only real slots I have open are rings, and I doubt anone has Forge Ring...



 I would be eligible for it (barely).  I suppose I could get rid of Draconic Breath, but it's just so...dragon-ey.


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## Insight (May 12, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> I would be eligible for it (barely).  I suppose I could get rid of Draconic Breath, but it's just so...dragon-ey.




Well don't get it just for me!  I say keep the feats that define your character.  I can find rings once we start the game.


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## Voadam (May 12, 2005)

Equipment for a soulknife paladin tank

Mithril full plate+3 19,500
Cloak of charisma +4 16,000
Gauntlets of ogre power +4 16,000
Ring of minor electricity resistance 10 12,000
Boots of levitation 7,500
Heavy steel shield +1 of light fortification 4,170
Scarab of golembane 2,500
Ring of protection +2 8,000
Handy haversack 2,000
Everburning torch 110
Silver holy symbol 25
Rope silk 50’ 10
185 gp

Should total 88K. 
And give me a 27 AC


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## Voadam (May 12, 2005)

Sir Vandon Hagel
Human Soulknife 9/Paladin 3 (last 3 levels are paladin)
Str 18 (22)
Dex 12
Con 16
Int 8
Wis 8
Cha 16(20)
F +14 R+13 W+11
125 hp
AC 27 (11 armor, 3 shield, 2 deflection, 1 dex) touch 13, flat footed 26
XP 72,000
BAB +9, attacks +19/+14 1d6+8 17-20x2 range increment 30’
Init +1
Move 30’
Feats: Close Quarters Combat, Ghost Attack, Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade) B, Greater Psionic Weapon, Improved Crit (mind blade), Improved Toughness, Psionic Weapon, Speed of Thought B, Weapon Focus (mind blade) B, Wild Talent B
Skills: Concentration +15, Diplomacy +11, Listen +11, Spot+11, Tumble +13(+10), 

Lay on hands 15 hp
Smite evil 1/day +5 attack, +3 damage 
Psychic strike +2d8 takes move equivalent to recharge
Greater psionic weapon +4d6 expends focus
Electricity resistance 10
Immune to fear, disease
Mind blade enhancement: Lucky (allows one attack/day to be rerolled)
25% chance negate crit
detect golems and evil
Ignore Golem DR

Mithril full plate+3 19,500
Cloak of charisma +4 16,000
Gauntlets of ogre power +4 16,000
Ring of minor electricity resistance 10 12,000
Boots of levitation 7,500
Heavy steel shield +1 of light fortification 4,170
Scarab golembane 2,500
Ring of protection +2 8,000
Handy haversack 2,000
Everburning torch 110
Silver holy symbol 25
Rope silk 50’ 10
185 gp

Aura of Good (Ex): The power of a paladin’s aura of good (see the detect good spell) is equal to her paladin level.
Detect Evil (Sp): At will, a paladin can use detect evil, as the spell.
Smite Evil (Su): Once per day, a paladin may attempt to smite evil with one normal melee attack. She adds her Charisma bonus (if any) to her attack roll and deals 1 extra point of damage per paladin level. If the paladin accidentally smites a creature that is not evil, the smite has no effect, but the ability is still used up for that day.
At 5th level, and at every five levels thereafter, the paladin may smite evil one additional time per day, as indicated on Table: The Paladin, to a maximum of five times per day at 20th level.
Divine Grace (Su): At 2nd level, a paladin gains a bonus equal to her Charisma bonus (if any) on all saving throws.
Lay on Hands (Su): Beginning at 2nd level, a paladin with a Charisma score of 12 or higher can heal wounds (her own or those of others) by touch. Each day she can heal a total number of hit points of damage equal to her paladin level x her Charisma bonus. A paladin may choose to divide her healing among multiple recipients, and she doesn’t have to use it all at once. Using lay on hands is a standard action.
Alternatively, a paladin can use any or all of this healing power to deal damage to undead creatures. Using lay on hands in this way requires a successful melee touch attack and doesn’t provoke an attack of opportunity. The paladin decides how many of her daily allotment of points to use as damage after successfully touching an undead creature.
Aura of Courage (Su): Beginning at 3rd level, a paladin is immune to fear (magical or otherwise). Each ally within 10 feet of her gains a +4 morale bonus on saving throws against fear effects.
This ability functions while the paladin is conscious, but not if she is unconscious or dead.
Divine Health (Ex): At 3rd level, a paladin gains immunity to all diseases, including supernatural and magical diseases.

Mind Blade (Su): As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19–20/x2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.
The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade.
A soulknife’s mind blade improves as the character gains higher levels. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the mind blade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 8th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 20th level).
Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.
Weapon Focus (Mind Blade): A soulknife gains Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat.
Wild Talent: A soulknife gains Wild Talent as a bonus feat. (This class feature provides the character with the psionic power he needs to materialize his mind blade, if he has no power points otherwise.)
Throw Mind Blade (Ex): A soul knife of 2nd level or higher can throw his mind blade as a ranged weapon with a range increment of 30 feet.
Whether or not the attack hits, a thrown mind blade then dissipates. A soulknife of 3rd level or higher can make a psychic strike (see below) with a thrown mind blade and can use the blade in conjunction with other special abilities (such as Knife to the Soul; see below).
Psychic Strike (Su): As a move action, a soulknife of 3rd level or higher can imbue his mind blade with destructive psychic energy. This effect deals an extra 1d8 points of damage to the next living, nonmindless target he successfully hits with a melee attack (or ranged attack, if he is using the throw mind blade ability). Creatures immune to mind-affecting effects are immune to psychic strike damage. (Unlike the rogue’s sneak attack, the psychic strike is not precision damage and can affect creatures otherwise immune to extra damage from critical hits or more than 30 feet away, provided they are living, nonmindless creatures not immune to mind-affecting effects.)
A mind blade deals this extra damage only once when this ability is called upon, but a soulknife can imbue his mind blade with psychic energy again by taking another move action.
Once a soulknife has prepared his blade for a psychic strike, it holds the extra energy until it is used. Even if the soulknife drops the mind blade (or it otherwise dissipates, such as when it is thrown and misses), it is still imbued with psychic energy when the soulknife next materializes it.
At every four levels beyond 3rd (7th, 11th, 15th, and 19th), the extra damage from a soulknife’s psychic strike increases as shown on the Table above.
Free Draw (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife becomes able to materialize his mind blade as a free action instead of a move action. He can make only one attempt to materialize the mind blade per round, however.
Shape Mind Blade (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife gains the ability to change the form of his mind blade. As a fullround action, he can change his mind blade to replicate a longsword (damage 1d8 for a Medium weapon wielded as a one-handed weapon) or a bastard sword (damage 1d10 for a Medium weapon, but he must wield it as a two-handed weapon unless he knows the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) feat). If a soulknife shapes his mind blade into the form of a bastard sword and wields it two-handed, he adds 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus to his damage rolls, just like when using any other two-handed weapon.
Alternatively, a soulknife can split his mind blade into two identical short swords, suitable for fighting with a weapon in each hand. (The normal penalties for fighting with two weapons apply.) However, both mind blades have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the soulknife would otherwise create with a single mind blade.
Mind Blade Enhancement (Su): At 6th level, a soulknife gains the ability to enhance his mind blade. He can add any one of the weapon special abilities on the table below that has an enhancement bonus value of +1.
At every four levels beyond 6th (10th, 14th, and 18th), the value of the enhancement a soulknife can add to his weapon improves to +2, +3, and +4, respectively. A soulknife can choose any combination of weapon special abilities that does not exceed the total allowed by the soulknife’s level.
The weapon ability or abilities remain the same every time the soulknife materializes his mind blade (unless he decides to reassign its abilities; see below). The ability or abilities apply to any form the mind blade takes, including the use of the shape mind blade or bladewind class abilities.

Weapon Special Ability	Enhancement Bonus Value
Defending	+1
Keen	+1
Lucky*	+1
Mighty cleaving	+1
Psychokinetic*	+1
Sundering*	+1
Vicious	+1
Collision*	+2
Mindcrusher*	+2
Psychokinetic burst*	+2
Suppression*	+2
Wounding	+2
Bodyfeeder*	+3
Mindfeeder*	+3
Soulbreaker*	+3
*New special abilities

A soulknife can reassign the ability or abilities he has added to his mind blade. To do so, he must first spend 8 hours in concentration. After that period, the mind blade materializes with the new ability or abilities selected by the soulknife.
Speed of Thought: A soulknife gains Speed of Thought as a bonus feat at 6th level.
Bladewind (Su): At 9th level, a soulknife gains the ability to momentarily fragment his mind blade into numerous identical blades, each of which strikes at a nearby opponent.
As a full attack, when wielding his mind blade, a soulknife can give up his regular attacks and instead fragment his mind blade to make one melee attack at his full base attack bonus against each opponent within reach. Each fragment functions identically to the soulknife’s regular mind blade.
When using bladewind, a soulknife forfeits any bonus or extra attacks granted by other feats or abilities (such as the Cleave feat or the haste spell).
The mind blade immediately reverts to its previous form after the bladewind attack.
Greater Weapon Focus (Mind Blade): A soulknife gains Greater Weapon Focus (mind blade) as a bonus feat at 9th level.


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## Voadam (May 12, 2005)

I will be out of internet contact until Tuesday.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 13, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> I will be out of internet contact until Tuesday.




That's fine, Voadam.  It's going to take me until early next week to be ready to start anyway.

In the meantime, any and all work the rest of you want to do on a collaborative history is quite encouraged.

I'll be getting a Rogue's Gallery thread started once I begin officially approving character sheets.

-Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 13, 2005)

Ok guys, for joined backgrounds, how about we give our own backgrounds in a nutshell and we can go from there once we compare them?

Silence was lost in the wilderness as a child, and heard the voices of angels that led her home. This inspired her to becomes a priest. She believes if she stays silent she will be able to hear the angels again. Now she journeys healing people and smiting evil to help advance the cause of good.
__________________


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## JimAde (May 13, 2005)

Cool.  My Character's name is Martan.  His background is pretty straightforward.  

Martan was the seventh son of a reasonably successful (but by no means wealthy) farm family.  At the age of 12 he was helping his brothers bring the cows in from a sudden, violent thunderstorm.  As he ran after a frightened calf he was struck by lightning and nearly killed.  Weeks of recuperation followed during which it became clear that _something_ had happened to the boy.  He became sullen and argumentative, even paranoid.  Also, strange things kept happening around him.  This went on for several months until a wandering sorcerer passed through the village and recognized Martan's emerging powers.  He helped Martan understand what was going on and said the lightning had "awakened the dragon within".

As he grew up, Martan found that his magnetic personality often caused people to want to be close to him.  Nevertheless, he never felt he fit in and eventually struck out to find his own way.  Now he seeks to learn more about his apparent Draconic heritage, and help out othes who might be in the same situation he was in.  If he can accumulate some wealth and power along the way, so much the better.

Martan's family is still alive and well, and he visits regularly.  Needless to say, they are much more prosperous now, and his parents have hired hands to do the physical work, but they still manage the farm and several of his brothers and their families still live and work there.


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## JimAde (May 13, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> That's fine, Voadam.  It's going to take me until early next week to be ready to start anyway.
> 
> In the meantime, any and all work the rest of you want to do on a collaborative history is quite encouraged.
> 
> ...



 Sorry for the delay with my character.  Things have been pretty hectic lately.  I'll be posting a beginning later today and I'll just continue to edit that post as I get more done.


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## JimAde (May 13, 2005)

*Martan - Work in Progress*

_*Please excuse our dust...Work on this character is underway.  *_

Martan
Male Human Sorcerer 8/Elemental Savant (Air) 4
[sblock]
*Str    *8
*Dex  *17 (19)
*Con  *14
*Int   *14
*Wis  *10
*Cha  *20 (22)

*Hit Dice* 8d4+4d4+24
*HP *61

*AC *23 (+4 Dex, +3 Armor, +2 natural, +2 Deflection, +2 Shield)
      Touch: 16
      Flat Footed: 15

BAB +6/+1
Saves: Fort +5, Ref +6, Will +10

Full Attack 
  Dagger +5/+0 (1d4-1)

*Skills*
Bluff +11 (6 ranks)
Concentration +15 (13 Ranks)
Diplomacy +11 (4 Ranks, Synergy bonus from Bluff)
Knowledge(Arcana) +13 (11 ranks)
Knowledge(Planes) +7 (5 ranks)
Profession(Farmer) +1 (1 rank)
Spellcraft +8 (6 ranks)

*Feats*
Empower Spell
Energy Substitution (Electrical)*
Sculpt Spell*
Draconic Heritage - Bronze*
Draconic Power*
Draconic Breath*

*Complete Arcane feats. See below.

*Spells Known*

Level 0 (6): Acid Splash+*, Arcane Mark, Detect Magic, Light, Mage Hand, Message, Prestidigitation, 

Read Magic 
Level 1 (8): Alarm, Mage Armor, Lesser Orb of Electricity*, True Strike, Unseen Servant 
Level 2 (7): Acid Arrow+*, Alter Self, Scorching Ray+*, Fireburst+%, Web
Level 3 (7): Haste, Lightning Bolt*, Protection from Energy, Fly
Level 4 (7): Globe of Invulnerability (Lesser), Scrying, Orb of Electricity*%
Level 5 (6): Cloudkill, Fire Shield(Mass)+* 
Level 6 (3): Chain Lightning* 

+These spells normally do some kind of energy damage but due to the Elemental Savant class always 

do Electrical damage instead.
*These spells deal electrical damage and are cast at 13th caster level due to the Draconic Power 

feat
%Spells from Complete Arcane.  Details below.

*Equipment*
Scrolls	 (all in haversack)
	Teleport x2	2250
	Summon Monster VII	2275
	Greater Dispel Magic x2	3300
	Antimagic Field	1650
	Wall of Stone	1125
	Wall of Fire	700
	Stoneskin x3	2850
	Scrying x2	1400
	Polymorph	700
	Resilient Sphere	700
	Charm Monster x2	1400
	Invisibility Sphere x3	1125
	Displacement x3	1125
	Blink	375
	Fox's Cunning	150
	Bull's Strength	150
	Cat's Grace	150
	Eagle's Splendor	150
	Bear's Endurance	150
	Owl's Wisdom	150

Potion Cure Mod Wnds x 5		1500
Wand of Lesser Orb of Electricity (CL 9)		6750

Dust of Appearance		1800
Bag of Holding Type I		2500
Elemental Gem (Air) x 3		6750
Cloak of Charisma +2		4000
Handy Haversack		2000
Gloves of Dex +2		4000

Ring of Force Shield		8500
Ring of Protection +2		8000
Bracers of Armor +3		9000
Amulet of Nat Armor +2		8000

Mundane equipment (all in bag of holding)

                             Cost  Wt.
1  Acid (flask)               10    1
5  Alchemist’s fire (flask)  100    5
5  Antitoxin (vial)          250    0
3  Everburning torch         330    3
5  Holy water (flask)        125    5
5  Sunrod                     10    5
5  Tanglefoot bag            250   20
10 Tindertwig                 10    0

                    Totals: 1085   39
 

Total in equipment:	85760


Complete Arcane Material
[sblock]
Elemental Savant Prestige Class
[sblock]
*Requirements*
Knowledge(arcana) 8 ranks
Knowledge(the planes) 4 ranks
Energy Substitution feat
Able to cast at least three spells that have the same energy descriptor, one of which is at least 

3rd level.
Must have made peaceul contact with an elemental or outsider with the elemental subtype.
*Class Skills*
Concentration, Craft, Knowledge(arcana), Knowledge(planes), Profession, Spellcraft
Skill Points: 2+Int modifier
*Features*
Full caster progression except for 5th and 10th levels
Good Will save, poor reflex and fort, poor BAB.

*Elemental Specialty (Ex):* Air specialty causes all damage-dealing spells with any energy 

descriptor to instead deal the appropriate energy type (electrical for Air).  This does not change 

the spell's level, and the savant cannot choose to do the spell's original damage type.

*Resistance to Energy (Ex)*: The savant gains resistance 5 to his chosen energy type at 1st 

level.  At 4th level this rises to 10, and at 7th level to 20.  So Martan has Electrical Resistance 

10.

*Immunity to Sleep (Ex)*: The savant class slowly transforms the savant into an elemental 

outsider.  This is the first step.  Strangely, it doesn't say the savant doesn't sleep normally, so 

I assume Martan needs his 8 hours like everybody else.

*Energy Penetration (Ex):* +2 to caster level checks to overcome Spell Resistance when using 

spells of the chosen energy type.  Note that with the Draconic Power feat, this means Martan is 

effectively 15th level for overcoming SR.

[/sblock]
Feats
Energy Substitution (Electrical)
[sblock]
Allows me to switch any spell that has an energy description like Fire or Acid to be Electrical 

instead. This raises the spell level one, but is actually superseded by a feature of the Elemental 

Savant class (see below). Is also a prereq for Elemental Savant, along with some ranks in 

Knowledge(Arcana) and Knowledge(The Planes).
[/sblock]
Sculpt Spell
[sblock]
Allows me to cast any spell with an area as either a 20' spread, 60' line, 40' cone or 4 10' cubes. 

The description doesn't say if these cubes have to be adjacent and there is considerable debate on 

the issue. Whatever you rule is fine by me. A sculpted spell uses a spell slot one level higher 

than the spell's actual level.
[/sblock]
Draconic Heritage - Bronze
[sblock]
Prereq for other Draconic feats. Makes Electrical the draconic energy type (for Draconic Breath and 

other things) and makes Survival a class skill.
[/sblock]
Draconic Power
[sblock]
Cast spells with associated energy descriptor (electrical) at +1 Caster Level
[/sblock]
Draconic Breath
[sblock]
Convert spell slots to 2d6 electricity per spell level, 60' line. So if I gave up a 2nd level spell 

it would do 4d6 (reflex half) in a 60' line. If I converted a 6th leve slot it would do 12d6. This 

is actually not that useful, since I will have attack spells that do electrical damage that will 

almost always be better. I really just like the flavor.
[/sblock]
Spells
[sblock]
*Orb of Electricity*
Conjuration(Creation)[Electricity]
Sor/Wiz 4
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (55 ft.)
Effect: One orb of electricity
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Fortitude Partial
Spell Resistance: No

An orb of electricity shoots forth from your hand.  Requires a ranged touch attack and does 1d6 

damage per level, max 15d6.  In addition, a target wearing metal armor must make a fortitude save 

or be entangled for one round.  There is no save against the damage. _Note that for Martan this 

does 13d6 due to his Draconic Power feat_

*Orb of Electricity, Lesser*
Conjuration(Creation)[Electricity]
Sor/Wiz 1
Components: V,S
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (55 ft.)
Effect: One orb of electricity
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw: No
Spell Resistance: No

As Orb of Electricity, except damage is 1d8 plus 1d8/2 levels (max 5d8 at 9th level).

*Fireburst*
Evocation[Fire]
Sor/Wiz 2
Components: V,S,M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: 5 ft.
Effect: Burst of fire extending 5 ft. rom you
Duration:Instantaneous
Saving Throw: Reflex Half
Spell Resistance: Yes

All creatures and objects within 5' burst except you and any creatures or objects in your space 

take 1d8 points of Fire damage per level (maximum 5d8) _Note that for Martan this is an 

Electrical spell doing Electrical damage_

*Fire Shield, Mass*
Evocation[Fire or Cold]
Sor/Wiz 5
Components: V,S,M
Casting Time: 1 Standard Action
Range: Close (55 ft.)
Targets: One or more allied creatures, no two of which can be more than 30 ft. apart
Duration: 1 round/level (D) (13 rounds)
Saving Throw: Will Negates (Harmless)
Spell Resistance: Yes (harmless)

This spell functions like fire shield except as noted above.
[/sblock]
Items
[/sblock]
[/sblock]


----------



## Krauss von Espy (May 14, 2005)

delete post


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## JimAde (May 14, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> delete post



 Hmm.  You know, nothing piques my curiosity quite as much as this...


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 14, 2005)

JimAde, Silence comes from a farming family too.  Perhaps our characters knew each other as children?


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## JimAde (May 14, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> JimAde, Silence comes from a farming family too.  Perhaps our characters knew each other as children?



 Sounds good.  Pretty unlikely that two random kids from a farming village would have these bizarre experiences, though.  Maybe they should be related.  "There's something odd about that family..."  

How about cousins?  Our mothers can be sisters.  Say our mutual grandfather was an eccentric with minor magical abilities (whether arcane or divine, I assume most people can't tell the difference).  After fathering our mothers (with two different women only one of whom he was married to) he vanished.  Most people assume he was just abandoning an awkward situation, but rumors persist that he was dabbling in things better left untouched and paid the ultimate price for it.

*Duh duh dunnnnnnn!*


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 14, 2005)

Not a bad idea JimAde.  Let's run with that.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (May 15, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Hmm. You know, nothing piques my curiosity quite as much as this...




Heh...sorry about that...I thought I had nailed Isida on a couple of char. sheet mistakes, but upon further review it seems that I was mistaken.  So, I just quickly deleted it to avoid embarrassment.   

So much for that...

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 15, 2005)

Isida,

Okay, I've tried and tried, but I just can't find any problem with Silence's character sheet.
I've created a Rogue's Gallery thread for our game here:

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?p=2249822#post2249822

Go ahead and post Silence's sheet when you're ready.

Next up, Insight's character, Tanus.

-Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 15, 2005)

Sweet, done.


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## Insight (May 15, 2005)

Hey Heinz,

In the next Dungeon, there's a new Maure Castle adventure.  Even though I regularly buy Dungeon, I promise not to read it if you're planning on using it.


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## Insight (May 15, 2005)

*Tanus' Background*

I have a background that hopefully will help to tie us together, or at least get us closer to that point in the history.  Let me know what you guys think.

*- TANUS OF GREYHAWK - *

For as long as anyone can remember, the Tieflings have served the rulers of Castle Greyhawk.  Many think that the tradition began with the Mad Archmage Zagyg Yragerne, who was known to dabble in demonology, but there is evidence to suggect that the Tieflings of Castle Greyhawk, who were Suloise with the hint of the blood of a Marilith demon, may have been in Castle Greyhawk for longer.

In any case, Tieflings had been servants in Castle Greyhawk for a long time.  In that time, the Tieflings had come from being confined to the lowest dungeons, cleaning dungeon cells and torture chambers, to the near respectability they currently enjoy.  In fact, the current Tiefling patriarch, Marald, was manservant to the High Seneschal himself.

This rise in status had its benefits.  The Tiefling children were tutored, and given access to the entire castle, and even played with the human children.  Tanus, Marald's second of three sons and the most intelligent and obstinant, was the brightest student of the bunch.  He quickly realized and hated the Tieflings' place as permanent servants to the rulers of Castle Greyhawk.  This hatred caused Tanus to flee Castle Greyhawk at age 16, not to return for a long, long time.

With little experience outside the castle walls, Tanus found a home with the traveling circus known as the Brothers of Garad.  Tanus, gifted with natural agility and quickness, was a natural as a performing acrobat, and would travel with the circus for some time.  The Brothers of Garad circus made its way from Greyhawk around the Nyr Dyv, to the lands of Veluna, Verbobonc, Bissel, Furyondy, and finally the Duchy of Urnst.

During these travels, Tanus also discovered a predilection for thievery.  He would steal from every noble or wealthy merchant he would come across and, though he had been quite successful early in his career, Tanus' luck ran out while in Nyrstran, a city on the coast of the Nyr Dyv.  He was imprisoned for thievery, and left to rot in the Nyrstran jail.

Things looked bleak for Tanus, as no one came to claim him or bail him out.  He had almost given up hope when the Lord Mayor of Nyrstran came to Tanus with an offer to win his freedom.  It seems that the Lord Mayor had acquired an abandoned keep just outside the city, and learned that it was full of undead and other sundry creatures, and had put out an offer to have the place cleared out.  Tanus agreed to the offer, and was released into the custody of a Paladin who had been visiting Nyrstran, who had agreed, along with others, to aid the Lord Mayor.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 15, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Hey Heinz,
> 
> In the next Dungeon, there's a new Maure Castle adventure. Even though I regularly buy Dungeon, I promise not to read it if you're planning on using it.




Yeah, if this goes well, and you guys are hungry for yet more punishment, there's a good chance that I would indeed use it.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 15, 2005)

*Insight:* Tanus' robes actually violate the 25% rule for equipment value (valued at 28000 gp, vs. 22000 maximum).  Is there a good reason why I should permit their possession (some element of character history, background, etc.?)

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 15, 2005)

*Insight:* Isn't Tanus missing his bonus 2nd level Monk feat?

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

*JimAde,*


How's the work on your character coming?

-Heinz


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## Insight (May 17, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Insight:* Tanus' robes actually violate the 25% rule for equipment value (valued at 28000 gp, vs. 22000 maximum).  Is there a good reason why I should permit their possession (some element of character history, background, etc.?)
> 
> -Heinz




It's a monk-type item that I had him 'win' as a result of besting his master in combat just prior to fleeing the Scarlet Brotherhood.  Beyond that, nothing really.

I can make it into two items if it would be easier.  I basically merged two abilities into one item.


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## Insight (May 17, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Insight:* Isn't Tanus missing his bonus 2nd level Monk feat?
> 
> -Heinz




Here are Tanus' feats and when he picked them up:



> Feats
> 1 - Endurance
> 3 - Combat Expertise
> 6 - Imp Feint
> ...




I don't believe I've missed anything, but if you want me to take an additional feat, I certainly will LOL


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

*Insight, *here is a quote from the SRD that caused me to believe you were one feat short....

*Bonus Feat*: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.

So...Stunning Fist at Monk 1, ???? at Monk 2, and Improved Trip at Monk 6.  Yes?

-Heinz


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## JimAde (May 17, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *JimAde,*
> 
> 
> How's the work on your character coming?
> ...



 I'm working on it now.  Should have final spell selection and items done tonight.  Sorry for the delay.


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## JimAde (May 17, 2005)

Major updates to the character.  All the spells are picked, all the rules from Complete Arcane typed in and about half the equipment bought.  I'll finish up tomorrow.

Man, I didn't realize how much work a higher-level caster would be.  Should have gone with barbarian.  

Still, I'm looking forward to the ker-BANG.


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## Insight (May 17, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Insight, *here is a quote from the SRD that caused me to believe you were one feat short....
> 
> *Bonus Feat*: At 1st level, a monk may select either Improved Grapple or Stunning Fist as a bonus feat. At 2nd level, she may select either Combat Reflexes or Deflect Arrows as a bonus feat. At 6th level, she may select either Improved Disarm or Improved Trip as a bonus feat. A monk need not have any of the prerequisites normally required for these feats to select them.
> 
> ...




Hmm... yeah you're right.  Not sure which one I want.  I'll probably go with Combat Reflexes.  It's not terribly useful, but neither is Deflect Arrows.  I see Tanus as more of a Combat Reflexes kind of guy anyway.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> I'm working on it now. Should have final spell selection and items done tonight. Sorry for the delay.




No delay, no problem....just checking in with you.  

-Heinz


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## Voadam (May 17, 2005)

Sir Vandon Hagel is a wandering knight errant of the order of the seelenritter, the soul knights. These mystic warriors perfect body, mind, and soul to champion the cause of justice and combat supernatural evil. A trusting jovial soul when it comes to peope who do not detect as evil, Sir Hagel has journeyed the countryside answering the call to duty and fighting evil for years. While basically a simple man, sir Vandon's spirit is finely tuned for combat and he is a powerful master of the mind blade. 

In Nyrstran he answered the lord mayor's call for brave souls to clear out a haunted keep. The lord mayor asked if any would be willing to take parole of a convicted thief who was a noted adventurer and would make a great scout and trapfinder. Vandon went to the dungeon where the tiefling was held and talked with him, taking the carefree spirit's measure. Finding Tanus not to detect as evil Vandon explained the Mayor's offer and asked the tiefling if he would be willing to join him in clearing out the keep of its evils under the knight's parole in order to earn his freedom. 

The knight placed his faith in the rogue who accepted the offer. Together they joined a pair of cousins, a silent cleric and lightning touched dragon mage, to clear the keep of its dangers. By the time they were finished the bonds of companionship had grown and as a group they stuck together until the rogue was kidnapped. Fearing for their friend's life the knight and others searched high and low but were not able to divine what had happened to the rogue, except that he was abducted by agents of the scarlet brotherhood.

As the small band was planning a rescue the rogue showed up a changed man. No longer happy and carefree he was more serious and bitter. He explained how the brotherhood was training him to be one of their assassins but he managed to escape before their brainwashing indoctrination enchantments were fully effective. Vandon did a detect evil and was happy to see his friend still did not detect as evil. Once again the group was whole, but the knight still worries about his companion and the changes within him from his time as a brotherhood inductee.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

*Insight,*

I've been going over Tanus' character sheet carefully, and I've run into a few more problems that need to be addressed before he can be officially approved.  Here we go...

1. I figured his hit points at 64, rather than 68.  6+16+42

2. You listed a +3 class bonus to AC, but I think this should only be +1.

3. You listed flurry of blows attack bonus as -1/-1, but it should be +3/+3

4. Purity of Body should be included as a Monk class ability.

5. I figured Tanus should have 116 skill points for assigning ranks, but it looks to me like you used only 108.

6. Finally, I have decided to disallow the Robes of Clarity of Motion.  An item that conveys a plus 4 bonus to two different ability scores would be worth 32,000 gp according to my interpretation of the rules, and that's just too much value for one item (bearing in mind the 22,000 gp limit).  If you want, you can go ahead and split this into two separate items, which would be valued at 16,000 each.  Bear in mind that this will change the total value of your equipment list.

I wanted to get these issues squared away before continuing.  Let me know if you agree/disagree with my findings.

Thanks!
Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

Welcome back, Voadam!


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

*Insight,*

One more question (for now... ).

Can you explain the Ascetic Rogue feat for me (I don't have Complete Adventurer).

Thanks!
Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 17, 2005)

It allows one to freely multiclass between rogue and monk.  Also if you combine a sneak attack with a stunning attack, the DC goes up by 2.  And monk and rogue levels stack for determining unarmed strike damage.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> It allows one to freely multiclass between rogue and monk. Also if you combine a sneak attack with a stunning attack, the DC goes up by 2. And monk and rogue levels stack for determining unarmed strike damage.




Thanks very much, Isida!


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

*Voadam,*

Can you please break down for me precisely how you assigned Sir Vandon's skill point ranks?

And, similarly, can you break down the progression by which you arrived at his current ability scores (starting from the initial 32 point buy).

Thank you!
Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Still, I'm looking forward to the ker-BANG.




Aren't we all!


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## JimAde (May 17, 2005)

Heinz, I have a question.  One of the spells I'm taking is Mass Fire Shield (from Complete Arcane, spell write-up in my character).  Fire shield normally damages people who attack you in melee and lets you choose whether it protects you from Fire or Cold damage.  Since my Elemental Savant class makes all damaging energy spells into electrical, I assume this will become "spark shield" or something.  My question is this: How to handle the energy protection portion of the spell?  I see three possibilities.

1) That aspect is lost completely.  Obviously I don't like this option much. 
2) The spell will only protect against electrical damage.  This is fine with me.
3) The spell will protect against either electrical or acid damage (choose when casting).

The rationale behind #3 is this: The Elemental Savant class actually makes you choose an element (in my case Air) to get the associated energy type.  The opposed element for air is earth, which has Acid as its associated energy type.  This mirrors the Fire/Cold thing (Cold is associated with Water for Elemental Savants).  Anyway, let me know what you think.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

Even though the details of character sheet approval are still ongoing, I've decided to go ahead and open up the In-Character thread. Initially, we'll just be establishing the 'hook' (such as it is), and allowing you to make whatever preparations you like before setting out for the dungeon. It's a great opportunity to establish your characters through role-playing. Also, please continue to flesh out the adventuring party's shared history, as much as you'd like. I'll continue to annoy all of you with requests for information/clarification about your character sheets in the meantime.  

Enjoy!

Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

Right, a link to the in-character forum would be helpful.... 

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=132422

There you go!

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 17, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Heinz, I have a question. One of the spells I'm taking is Mass Fire Shield (from Complete Arcane, spell write-up in my character). Fire shield normally damages people who attack you in melee and lets you choose whether it protects you from Fire or Cold damage. Since my Elemental Savant class makes all damaging energy spells into electrical, I assume this will become "spark shield" or something. My question is this: How to handle the energy protection portion of the spell? I see three possibilities.
> 
> 1) That aspect is lost completely. Obviously I don't like this option much.
> 2) The spell will only protect against electrical damage. This is fine with me.
> ...




Let's go ahead with option 3.  I agree that this allows you to retain the original flavor of the Fire Shield spell.  Sounds good.

-Heinz


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## Voadam (May 17, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Voadam,*
> 
> Can you please break down for me precisely how you assigned Sir Vandon's skill point ranks?
> 
> ...




Skills

Level 1-9 = soulknife, all four class skills (concentration, listen, spot, tumble) maxed, so 12 ranks each.

Level 10-12 =paladin all skill points in diplomacy so 6 ranks.

point buy 32

Attribute, points spent, = result + level ups and what level with resulting totals:

str 10 =16+2 level 4,8 = 18 
dex 4=12
con 10=16
int 0=8
wis 0=8
cha 8=15+1 level 12=16


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## Insight (May 17, 2005)

Heinz,

Tanus has a bunch of things that add to his effective Monk level, but I don't have all of that material with me at work.  When I get a chance, I'll post exactly how I came to what I posted.  In essence, he is a Monk Level X for various things, including move, ac, unarmed dmg, and flurry mods.  He gets bonuses from Ascetic Rogue, his Monk's Belt, and I believe Tattooed Monk adds to his effective Monk levels for most things.  Like I said, I'll break it all down tonight.


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## Insight (May 17, 2005)

As for the magic items, I have split the offending item into two: the Headwrap of Clarity (+4 Wis, 16k) and the Robes of Fluid Motion (+4 Dex, 16k).  I made up the 4k difference by ditching the Lens of Detection (3500) and dropping 50pp.  Should equal out and not change any of the rest of the stats.


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## JimAde (May 17, 2005)

Ok, more purchasing happening!  Heinz please have a look.  I didn't take anything too strange (I think).  I did take a wand of Lesser Orb of Electricity.  I know I have that spell, but I realized that I have no useful weapon proficiencies, so I figured I'll use the wand as basically a ranged weapon.  I bought it at caster level 9th for the same cost as a wand of Magic Missile, CL 9.  That means it will do 5d8 on a hit, no save (though I have to make a ranged touch attack to hit with my modifier of +10 for BAB and dex).

I also bought lots of scrolls, but none of them are higher than 6th level so I shouldn't have to make rolls to use them.

I've spent about 84,000 and would be perfectly happy to keep the rest in cash.  I have not yet bought mundane equipment, but I will have that done tonight.  I'm basically ready to roll.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 18, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> As for the magic items, I have split the offending item into two: the Headwrap of Clarity (+4 Wis, 16k) and the Robes of Fluid Motion (+4 Dex, 16k). I made up the 4k difference by ditching the Lens of Detection (3500) and dropping 50pp. Should equal out and not change any of the rest of the stats.




That works, thanks!

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 18, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Ok, more purchasing happening! Heinz please have a look. I didn't take anything too strange (I think). I did take a wand of Lesser Orb of Electricity. I know I have that spell, but I realized that I have no useful weapon proficiencies, so I figured I'll use the wand as basically a ranged weapon. I bought it at caster level 9th for the same cost as a wand of Magic Missile, CL 9. That means it will do 5d8 on a hit, no save (though I have to make a ranged touch attack to hit with my modifier of +10 for BAB and dex).
> 
> I also bought lots of scrolls, but none of them are higher than 6th level so I shouldn't have to make rolls to use them.
> 
> I've spent about 84,000 and would be perfectly happy to keep the rest in cash. I have not yet bought mundane equipment, but I will have that done tonight. I'm basically ready to roll.




Sounds good, I'll be getting to Martan's nitty-gritty soon enough!

Thanks,
Heinz


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## Insight (May 18, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Insight,*
> 
> I've been going over Tanus' character sheet carefully, and I've run into a few more problems that need to be addressed before he can be officially approved.  Here we go...
> 
> 1. I figured his hit points at 64, rather than 68.  6+16+42




You are correct.  I have adjusted his listed HP.



> 2. You listed a +3 class bonus to AC, but I think this should only be +1.




It is neither +3 nor +1, but +2.  I will explain below.  It has been adjusted in the post.



> 3. You listed flurry of blows attack bonus as -1/-1, but it should be +3/+3




6th level Monks reduce the Flurry penalty to -1 as opposed to -2.  I am listing the penalty as opposed to the total attack bonus (which is actually a lot higher than +3).



> 4. Purity of Body should be included as a Monk class ability.




I have added this to the character posting.



> 5. I figured Tanus should have 116 skill points for assigning ranks, but it looks to me like you used only 108.




I'll have to take a look at this.  Tanus' INT mod changed at 4th level, so that makes calculating his skill ranks tricky.  If I have shortchanged him, I'll adjust the numbers.



> 6. Finally, I have decided to disallow the Robes of Clarity of Motion.




I have addressed this in a previous post.

OK, as for his wierd Monk abilities, here's how it works:

Tanus has 4 class abilities, feats, or items that add to his Monk abilities.  They are the following:

Ascetic Rogue (feat): Adds +5 levels (his Rogue levels) to Unarmed Damage and +2 to Stunning Fist Save DC.
Tattooed Monk (PrC): Adds class level (+1 level) to Unarmed Damage, Class AC Bonus, and Move Bonus.
Monk's Belt (item): Adds +5 levels to Unarmed Damage and Class AC Bonus, and 1 use per day of the Stunning Fist feat.
Boots of Striding and Springing (item): +10' to Base Move.

Thus, these are his adjusted levels and subsequent abilities:
*Unarmed Damage (as Monk 17)*: 2d8
*Class AC Bonus (as Monk 12)*: +2
*Move (as Monk 7)*: Class Bonus +20', item bonus +10', total 60'
*Stunning Fist - Times per Day*: 6 (Monk levels) + 1 (non-Monk levels) +1 (item) = 8
*Stunning Fist - Save DC*: 16 (base) + 4 (Wis Mod) +2 (feat) =  22

I hope that all makes sense.


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## Voadam (May 18, 2005)

Can we hand wave mundane junk like rations and clothes and assume we have enough. I have a handy haversack which can carry a lot.

Other than that I think Vandon is set.


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## JimAde (May 18, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Can we hand wave mundane junk like rations and clothes and assume we have enough. I have a handy haversack which can carry a lot.
> 
> Other than that I think Vandon is set.



 That would be great.  I have a haversack too, as well as a bag of holding (when you have an 8 strength you need all the help you can get  )


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## JimAde (May 18, 2005)

I've updated my character again (bought a bunch of alchemical items).  Haven't yet bought the "food and bedroll" type stuff, but I think I'm ready to go.


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## JimAde (May 18, 2005)

Sorry to keep responding to my own posts, but Heinz I think we're ready to go.  There's no need to actually play out the shopping for me and you had said you wanted to start "at the dungeon door".


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## Insight (May 18, 2005)

OOC: I am perfectly OK with skipping the shopping trip and assuming we have the mundane equipment we should have.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 18, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Can we hand wave mundane junk like rations and clothes and assume we have enough. I have a handy haversack which can carry a lot.
> 
> Other than that I think Vandon is set.




Absolutely.  At this level of play, no one enjoys spending a lot of time on such mundane matters.  We'll assume the party has packed a substantial amount of rations, spare clothing, etc.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 18, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Sorry to keep responding to my own posts, but Heinz I think we're ready to go. There's no need to actually play out the shopping for me and you had said you wanted to start "at the dungeon door".




Very well!  I will have a post up this evening that does that very thing.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 18, 2005)

*Voadam, Insight, and JimAde....*

Go ahead and post your character sheets over on the Rogue's Gallery thread (Silence is probably lonely!).

There may be yet more questions or need for clarification, but I don't see any glaring problems at this time.  We can make minor tweaks as need arises.

Thanks,
Heinz


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## Voadam (May 23, 2005)

I think everything relevant is on my character posting.

The items are from the srd and I spelled out the psionic feats he has.

Only the exact text for his feats from Complete Warrior are not written down: close quarters combat which gives him an AoO against improved grab and adds on damage to his resist grapple roll and improved toughness which gives +1 hp/level.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 24, 2005)

*Maps*

Do any of you know of any quick and easy ways to make a dungeon map that doesn't involve a lot of time and/or money?  I'd like to provide some simple maps for you, to make it a little easier for you to visualize everything.

Ideas?

Thanks,
Heinz


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2005)

MS Paint.


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## Voadam (May 24, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Do any of you know of any quick and easy ways to make a dungeon map that doesn't involve a lot of time and/or money?  I'd like to provide some simple maps for you, to make it a little easier for you to visualize everything.
> 
> Ideas?
> 
> ...




Linking to specific free ones on the wizard's sites.

For my e-mail group I copy the images from the pdf module I use and paste into a document I post on the yahoo site we set up.

I realize these aren't that helpful for the situation of using existing maps from a print product. Perhaps you have a scanner and could then upload the scans?

Hopefully the layout of the dungeon won't be so tricky that describing things won't suffice. 

And let me just state now, I hate mazes and mapping tricks. If you use them that's fine, its just not the kind of dungeon challenges that I enjoy. Fights, interactions, discoveries, and traps that can be figured out or muscled through (either through saves, hit points, or disable checks) are all cool.


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## JimAde (May 24, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> MS Paint.



 Yep, for "quick and dirty" maps that's the way to go.  Just like if we were playing face to face, you might sketch out a quick version on a battlemat or whiteboard.

You can link the image file right in your post.  If you need hosting for things that are too big, you can e-mail images to me and I can put them on my web site.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 24, 2005)

Thanks for the tips!

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 24, 2005)

*Maps pt. 2*

Okay, I'm getting somewhere.  I've scanned in the map from the magazine, and done some editing with MS Paint.  It's saved now as a small (7k) jpg, but I don't know how to link the thumbnail here on the website.  When I try to insert the image, the prompt asks me for a URL?  I'm not sure that I have a URL, since the image is simply saved on my hard drive.

Any assistance from you computer gurus?

Thanks,
Heinz


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## JimAde (May 24, 2005)

Testing testing...


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## JimAde (May 24, 2005)

Ok.  Just click "New Reply" and under the area where you enter text you'll see a button that says "Manage Attachments".  That will give you a pop-up screen that lets you brows your local machine and attach files.  If the file is an image, it shows up as above.

There's a file size limit, but I don't know what it is.  7k should be fine.


_Edit: You can also do this while editing an existing post, so you could modify the map as we see different areas and not have to have a lot of images in the thread.
_


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## Krauss von Espy (May 24, 2005)

Thanks, JimAde, that did the trick! 

I've added a thumbnail to post #31 in the IC thread, to show the entrance area where the eight-pointed star was.

Shortly, I'll add one to the more recent posting to show the current room, with the big ol' doors.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (May 24, 2005)

*Standard Operating Procedure*

Are there some default actions that you would like me to resolve whenever the party reaches a closed door, or new room, etc.?  For example, Sir Vandon's detection of evil and of golems.

Will Tanus search for traps routinely at every door?  How about Listen checks, Detect Magic, etc?

I am trying to streamline things so we can move on with interesting things, rather than take unnecessary time with routine checks.

Please make a list of 'default' SOP actions for your character, and I will resolve them whenever appropriate.

Thanks,
Heinz


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## JimAde (May 24, 2005)

No SOP, but I do want to clarify that I'm carrying the torch in my left hand (the same one with the ring of shielding on it) and my wand in my right hand.

If that's a problem, I'll just conjure up an Unseen Servant to carry it for me.  It only has a move of 15 feet, but I assume it can keep up as long as we're walking normally and not hustling or running.

Actually, now that I think about it, that would be a handy thing to have anyway.  Next time I post I'll just go ahead and do it.


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## Voadam (May 24, 2005)

SOP will be detecting for evil then golems.

I would make a suggestion for Tanus. If he bumped his search up to a +10 he could then take 10 on search checks and get the standard DC 20 secret doors and no time would need to be wasted on rolling.

Btw the map is great, and helps visualize things a lot.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 24, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> SOP will be detecting for evil then golems.




So noted.



			
				Voadam said:
			
		

> Btw the map is great, and helps visualize things a lot.




Thanks!   

I'm really thrilled that I've worked out how to make it happen, it makes me feel like a better DM!

Thanks again for all of your input, especially JimAde.

-Heinz


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## Insight (May 24, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Are there some default actions that you would like me to resolve whenever the party reaches a closed door, or new room, etc.?  For example, Sir Vandon's detection of evil and of golems.
> 
> Will Tanus search for traps routinely at every door?  How about Listen checks, Detect Magic, etc?
> 
> ...




Well, since Listen and Spot are reactions and not things Tanus would actively be doing, the only things I can think of are Hide and Move Silently (Hide only when he knows there are things that might see him - Move Silently always unless moving quickly or in combat).  Other than that, Tanus isn't going to Search all the time.  When we come to a door or anything else of environmental interest (artwork, strange floor, etc), he would use a Search there.


----------



## Insight (May 24, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> SOP will be detecting for evil then golems.
> 
> I would make a suggestion for Tanus. If he bumped his search up to a +10 he could then take 10 on search checks and get the standard DC 20 secret doors and no time would need to be wasted on rolling.
> 
> Btw the map is great, and helps visualize things a lot.




Agreed on the map.  Good work!

In terms of the Search skill bonus, originally I had an item that put my Search bonus over +10, but now it is less than +10, so I can see what you're saying about taking 10 and getting a 20 automatically.  I could definitely do that next level, unless the DM would allow me to change things after we have already started.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 24, 2005)

Only SOP for Silence would be to bring her mace up to daylight strength of light during a fight so everyone can see what they're doing.  Unless, of course, someone wants to counsel her otherwise.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 25, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> In terms of the Search skill bonus, originally I had an item that put my Search bonus over +10, but now it is less than +10, so I can see what you're saying about taking 10 and getting a 20 automatically. I could definitely do that next level, unless the DM would allow me to change things after we have already started.




I don't mind if you want to tinker with your skill point allotments a bit. However, I should point out that your character sheet indicates a Search bonus of +10 at present, and I had been using that bonus for the Search checks Tanus made thus far. Is it incorrect?


----------



## Insight (May 25, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> I don't mind if you want to tinker with your skill point allotments a bit. However, I should point out that your character sheet indicates a Search bonus of +10 at present, and I had been using that bonus for the Search checks Tanus made thus far. Is it incorrect?




That'll teach me to look at my character before posting.  Yes, Tanus has 8 ranks of Search, and an Int bonus of +2, for a total of +10.  Thus, he should be able to take 10 for a 20 total, and where applicable, take 20 for a 30 total.

EDIT: I was taking a look at Tanus' next couple of levels, and I'm going for Thief-Acrobat after next level, which will be Rogue.  Therefore, I had to swap out all of my ranks in Disguise for Climb.  I hope that's OK.  Otherwise, I'll have to wait 2 more levels just to have enough skill pts to buy everything I need for Thief-Acrobat.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 25, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> I was taking a look at Tanus' next couple of levels, and I'm going for Thief-Acrobat after next level, which will be Rogue. Therefore, I had to swap out all of my ranks in Disguise for Climb. I hope that's OK. Otherwise, I'll have to wait 2 more levels just to have enough skill pts to buy everything I need for Thief-Acrobat.




Since you haven't made any skill checks using the Disguise or Climb skills, I don't mind that you made that change.

-Heinz


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## Insight (May 25, 2005)

I am moving this weekend, so after Friday, don't expect any new posts until at least Monday.  Maybe Sunday at the earliest.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 26, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> I am moving this weekend, so after Friday, don't expect any new posts until at least Monday. Maybe Sunday at the earliest.




Okay, Insight.  No problem.


----------



## Voadam (May 27, 2005)

Heinz, 

A rules interpretation on the mindblade. If I change its length to longsword and dismiss it, when I call it up later is it short sword or longsword length? There are advantages both ways. Retaining longsword length means it comes up doing more damage immediately. If it resets to short sword then that is something that can be done if I'm grappled (dismiss then free action summon) to make it a light weapon I can attack with from within a grapple so still get a full attack off immediately instead of spending a full round to change it to a light weapon I can attack with.

Shape Mind Blade (Su): At 5th level, a soulknife gains the ability to change the form of his mind blade. As a fullround action, he can change his mind blade to replicate a longsword (damage 1d8 for a Medium weapon wielded as a one-handed weapon) or a bastard sword (damage 1d10 for a Medium weapon, but he must wield it as a two-handed weapon unless he knows the Exotic Weapon Proficiency (bastard sword) feat). If a soulknife shapes his mind blade into the form of a bastard sword and wields it two-handed, he adds 1-1/2 times his Strength bonus to his damage rolls, just like when using any other two-handed weapon.
Alternatively, a soulknife can split his mind blade into two identical short swords, suitable for fighting with a weapon in each hand. (The normal penalties for fighting with two weapons apply.) However, both mind blades have an enhancement bonus 1 lower than the soulknife would otherwise create with a single mind blade.

Mind Blade (Su): As a move action, a soulknife can create a semisolid blade composed of psychic energy distilled from his own mind. The blade is identical in all ways (except visually) to a short sword of a size appropriate for its wielder. For instance, a Medium soulknife materializes a Medium mind blade that he can wield as a light weapon, and the blade deals 1d6 points of damage (crit 19–20/x2). Soulknives who are smaller or larger than Medium create mind blades identical to short swords appropriate for their size, with a corresponding change to the blade’s damage. The wielder of a mind blade gains the usual benefits to his attack roll and damage roll from a high Strength bonus.
The blade can be broken (it has hardness 10 and 10 hit points); however, a soulknife can simply create another on his next move action. The moment he relinquishes his grip on his blade, it dissipates (unless he intends to throw it; see below). A mind blade is considered a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction.
A soulknife can use feats such as Power Attack or Combat Expertise in conjunction with the mind blade just as if it were a normal weapon. He can also choose mind blade for feats requiring a specific weapon choice, such as Weapon Specialization. Powers or spells that upgrade weapons can be used on a mind blade.
A soulknife’s mind blade improves as the character gains higher levels. At 4th level and every four levels thereafter, the mind blade gains a cumulative +1 enhancement bonus on attack rolls and damage rolls (+2 at 8th level, +3 at 12th level, +4 at 16th level, and +5 at 20th level).
Even in places where psionic effects do not normally function (such as within a null psionics field), a soulknife can attempt to sustain his mind blade by making a DC 20 Will save. On a successful save, the soulknife maintains his mind blade for a number of rounds equal to his class level before he needs to check again. On an unsuccessful attempt, the mind blade vanishes. As a move action on his turn, the soulknife can attempt a new Will save to rematerialize his mind blade while he remains within the psionics negating effect.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 28, 2005)

Voadam, I'd lean more towards allowing the mindblade to manifest in the same form as that which it held when last summoned.  I just like the visual more than having to reshape every time it's summoned.


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## Krauss von Espy (May 29, 2005)

Successful move, then, Insight?


----------



## Insight (May 29, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Successful move, then, Insight?




Yup.  Only problem is I moved to the *third floor* of an apartment building.  Not doing that again without professional movers.  That was a freakin ordeal!


----------



## Isida Kep'Tukari (May 30, 2005)

Oh lord, you poor, poor man.  My apartment building only has a single flight of stairs and that was ridiculous enough.  And I own a sleeper sofa!  I hope you're not too sore!


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 1, 2005)

*Isida, Insight:*


Any actions for your characters in the room with the fighter frescoes?

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 2, 2005)

*JimAde and Insight:*

 I didn't see Initiative bonuses on your character sheets.  In determining initiative for this combat, I just figured your bonuses based on your DEX modifier, but if there are additional factors that I missed, please let me know for the future.  In any case, please add your initiative modifier to your PC's char. sheet.

Thanks!
Heinz


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## JimAde (Jun 2, 2005)

Sorry about that.  No weird modifiers for me beyond my dex.  I'll add Init to the sheet.


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## Voadam (Jun 2, 2005)

Looking over my sheet my init is incorrect, I didn't have enough feats to get improved init at the final selection like I originally planned so Vandon's init should be +1. I revised the rogue's gallery entry and the one earlier in this thread. As Vandon goes last anyway it does not affect this combat. Sorry about that mistake.


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## Insight (Jun 2, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *JimAde and Insight:*
> 
> I didn't see Initiative bonuses on your character sheets.  In determining initiative for this combat, I just figured your bonuses based on your DEX modifier, but if there are additional factors that I missed, please let me know for the future.  In any case, please add your initiative modifier to your PC's char. sheet.
> 
> ...




Tanus' init = Dex mod.


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## Insight (Jun 2, 2005)

Hi all,

I've got a huge writing project to finish this weekend, and I'm really busy at work.  Not sure I'll get much of a chance to post.  But I will post something in regards to the battle where applicable as soon as I can.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 3, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Looking over my sheet my init is incorrect, I didn't have enough feats to get improved init at the final selection like I originally planned so Vandon's init should be +1. I revised the rogue's gallery entry and the one earlier in this thread. As Vandon goes last anyway it does not affect this combat. Sorry about that mistake.




No problem, Voadam.  Thanks for catching and correcting it.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 4, 2005)

Hey guys,

I just wanted to send a quick note to let you know that if you ever have any questions about my numbers used in combat, please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm a stickler for accuracy, and if I ever forget a bonus or some such, I'd like to know.  I probably won't change the posted results of a combat action (if applicable), but I would like the heads-up for the next time around.  If you see anything that doesn't look right, please give a holler.

-Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 5, 2005)

*Insight,*

On Tanus' character sheet can you please list the basic bonuses for his unarmed strike attacks (single and full attack actions)?

Thanks!


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## Voadam (Jun 6, 2005)

Another SOP for Vandon will be after combat spending a round to regain his psionic focus (a full round action but I think he can autosuccess the concentration check by taking 10) and then a move action to recharge his psychic strike if needed.

That is presuming his healing abilities or whatever are not immediately needed.


----------



## Insight (Jun 6, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Insight,*
> 
> On Tanus' character sheet can you please list the basic bonuses for his unarmed strike attacks (single and full attack actions)?
> 
> Thanks!




OK sure.  Also, just to let everyone know, I am going to be very busy this week.  I'll keep up as best I can for now.

EDIT:  For reference, here are the mods:

Unarmed Strike - Single
- One attack/No Mods: +11
- One Attack/Full Combat Exp (-5): +6
Unarmed Strike - Full Attack
- No Mods: +11/+6
- Full Combat Expertise: +6/+1
- Flurry of Blows: +10/+10/+5


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## Voadam (Jun 6, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> That's what I was originally going to post, but then I recalled in the D&D FAQ that only the first of a rogue's melee attacks in a round gets the bonus damage from sneak attack. I could be wrong. Whichever way our DM wants to rule is fine with me.




That sounds like it is referring to a full attack after being invisible. Since the denied dex is from invisibility is cancelled immediately after the first attack on non-greater invisibility.

This also sounded more like an ooc rules discussion so I posted it here.


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## Insight (Jun 6, 2005)

I've seen it done different ways in different campaigns.  Technically, apart from whatever it says in the FAQ, the opponent is flanked the entire time I am attacking them, since I'm adding the +2 from flanking to all of my attack rolls.  According to the SRD, rogues get to sneak attack whenever an opponent is denied their Dex bonus for whatever reason (invisibility, flat footed, held, etc) or is flanked.  Note that flanking is different from 'being denied a Dex bonus' because you don't lose your Dex bonus when flanked; the opponents just get +2 to hit you.

I'm good with however the DM wants to handle it, and I'd be perfectly happy to get my sneak attack bonus as often as possible


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 7, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> I've seen it done different ways in different campaigns. Technically, apart from whatever it says in the FAQ, the opponent is flanked the entire time I am attacking them, since I'm adding the +2 from flanking to all of my attack rolls. According to the SRD, rogues get to sneak attack whenever an opponent is denied their Dex bonus for whatever reason (invisibility, flat footed, held, etc) or is flanked. Note that flanking is different from 'being denied a Dex bonus' because you don't lose your Dex bonus when flanked; the opponents just get +2 to hit you.
> 
> I'm good with however the DM wants to handle it, and I'd be perfectly happy to get my sneak attack bonus as often as possible




I've always understood that sneak attack damage can only be applied one time for a given attack *action* (standard or full)....as opposed to one attack *roll *(which seems to be Voadam's interpretation). This is the way I'll be handling it here. It gets tacked on at the end, after the total regular damage has been calculated.  To do it the other way would just open the door for some _sick _damage totals.  Unbalancing, IMO.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 7, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Another SOP for Vandon will be after combat spending a round to regain his psionic focus (a full round action but I think he can autosuccess the concentration check by taking 10) and then a move action to recharge his psychic strike if needed.
> 
> That is presuming his healing abilities or whatever are not immediately needed.




I had presumed this would be the case, thanks for confirming it!


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## Voadam (Jun 7, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Roll 2,10, both hit.




 

High attack bonuses are great.


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## Voadam (Jun 7, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> I've always understood that sneak attack damage can only be applied one time for a given attack *action* (standard or full)....as opposed to one attack *roll *(which seems to be Voadam's interpretation). This is the way I'll be handling it here. It gets tacked on at the end, after the total regular damage has been calculated.  To do it the other way would just open the door for some _sick _damage totals.  Unbalancing, IMO.




Correct about my interpretation that the term "attack" in sneak attack damage refers to any individual attack under RAW.

You are the DM, it is your call though, and does not affect my character's powers. I'm fine with whatever house rules or different interpretations of rules that you have as DM as long as you clearly state them so that as players we are not surprised by them and can plan appropriately.

The effect of this ruling is that Tanus is less offensively powerful than I expected him to be but also means that NPC rogues and assassins will be likewise reduced in offensive threat.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 8, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Correct about my interpretation that the term "attack" in sneak attack damage refers to any individual attack under RAW.
> 
> You are the DM, it is your call though, and does not affect my character's powers. I'm fine with whatever house rules or different interpretations of rules that you have as DM as long as you clearly state them so that as players we are not surprised by them and can plan appropriately.
> 
> The effect of this ruling is that Tanus is less offensively powerful than I expected him to be but also means that NPC rogues and assassins will be likewise reduced in offensive threat.




Voadam, can you cite a portion of the SRD (or any other offical source for that matter) that clarifies this point?  I'd like to follow up on it a little further.

Thanks!


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## Insight (Jun 8, 2005)

*Sneak Attacks*



			
				SRD said:
			
		

> The rogue’s attack deals extra damage any time her target would be denied a Dexterity bonus to AC (whether the target actually has a Dexterity bonus or not), or when the rogue flanks her target.




Above is the only salient passage I find from the SRD regarding when a Rogue gets to apply Sneak Attack damage.  The 'any time' part of that sentence certainly makes it seem like Tanus should get the damage on successive attacks against something that is flanked or has lost its Dex bonus.

The current version of the FAQ (I just read thru the whole thing) does not mention Sneak Attacks.  I know a previous version did, but I don't recall exactly what it said.


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## JimAde (Jun 8, 2005)

Just to chime in: One point of support is that some ability descriptions (like Manyshot) explicitly say that the damage ONLY applies once.  If that were the general case there would be no point in mentioning it.


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## JimAde (Jun 8, 2005)

Random thought about the Unseen Servant:  We should probably be having it open doors for us.  As long as the door isn't locked or stuck it can do so just fine.


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## Voadam (Jun 8, 2005)

From the srd combat section as well where it is pretty clear you can get multiple attacks in a round. Nothing in the rogue section says that the sneak attack damage is limited to attack actions or added once onto a full attack action, it just mentions attacks the same way multiple attacks are mentioned in a full attack action.

STANDARD ACTIONS
Attack
Making an attack is a standard action.
Melee Attacks: With a normal melee weapon, you can strike any opponent within 5 feet. (Opponents within 5 feet are considered adjacent to you.) Some melee weapons have reach, as indicated in their descriptions. With a typical reach weapon, you can strike opponents 10 feet away, but you can’t strike adjacent foes (those within 5 feet).


Multiple Attacks: A character who can make more than one attack per round must use the full attack action (see Full-Round Actions, below) in order to get more than one attack.

FULL-ROUND ACTIONS
A full-round action requires an entire round to complete. Thus, it can’t be coupled with a standard or a move action, though if it does not involve moving any distance, you can take a 5-foot step.

Full Attack
If you get more than one attack per round because your base attack bonus is high enough, because you fight with two weapons or a double weapon or for some special reason you must use a full-round action to get your additional attacks. You do not need to specify the targets of your attacks ahead of time. You can see how the earlier attacks turn out before assigning the later ones.
The only movement you can take during a full attack is a 5-foot step. You may take the step before, after, or between your attacks.
If you get multiple attacks because your base attack bonus is high enough, you must make the attacks in order from highest bonus to lowest. If you are using two weapons, you can strike with either weapon first. If you are using a double weapon, you can strike with either part of the weapon first.
Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 9, 2005)

JimAde said:
			
		

> Random thought about the Unseen Servant: We should probably be having it open doors for us. As long as the door isn't locked or stuck it can do so just fine.




That's a good idea. I'll make a note of it, so long as none of you are opposed.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 9, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Deciding between an Attack or a Full Attack: After your first attack, you can decide to take a move action instead of making your remaining attacks, depending on how the first attack turns out. If you’ve already taken a 5-foot step, you can’t use your move action to move any distance, but you could still use a different kind of move action.




Oops!   

My apologies, particularly to Insight.  Consider this a reversal of my prior ruling.

If you want to conditionally offer a move action based on the success or failure of the first roll of a full attack, please do.

Again, my mistake.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 9, 2005)

Voadam wins again!

I started a thread on the game rules forum to address our debate about the application of sneak attack damage.

Here it is, if you care to check it out...

http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=135377

The upshot does indeed appear to be that sneak attack damage can be applied on every successful strike during a full attack action.  Again, this will be a reversal of my prior ruling (and much to Tanus' benefit).

I've been playing 3rd edition for years now, but I've still got much to learn it seems.  Thanks for all your patience.


----------



## JimAde (Jun 9, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Voadam wins again!
> 
> I started a thread on the game rules forum to address our debate about the application of sneak attack damage.
> 
> ...



 Thanks to you for being flexible.  I'm having a great time so far.


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## Voadam (Jun 9, 2005)

Heinz,

I've been playing since the 3.0 PH came out and I've been a contributing author on about a half dozen d20 books. I feel I have a good grasp of the rules and materials out there for D&D. Just yesterday I found out cover prevents AoOs thanks to a rules forum discussion here and looking up the full AoO rules in the srd. It had just never come up before in our games. 

It is a complex rule set with little but pervasive differences between 3.0 and 3.5. As I DM my e-mail game I find myself constantly looking up exact descriptions of every power or combat maneuver as we use them, which is a little frustrating. That's part of why I find the soulknife such a cool class, because there is not so much wierdness in changing numbers and limited use powers to keep track of. Pretty much one psychic blast and one greater psionic weapon shot per combat. All I've got for once a day powers is a paladin smite evil, which I'd probably trade for a constant +1 or +2 to damage against undead and Evil outsiders if that would make things easier for you as a DM.

As a player I am flexible on accepting how close to the rules a DM runs his game. I will point out what I think are the RAW and why in an ooc aside in a pbp game but I am fine having the DM be the final arbitrater for his game and deciding he doesn't like certain core rules for his game.

The fact that we are playing is more important to me than the exact rules the game is played under, and this game has been fun so far and I hope for it to continue for a good run.


----------



## Insight (Jun 9, 2005)

I'm in a similar boat as Voadam.  Even though I am a freelance d20 author (check out my work in the recent issues of _Buccaneers & Bokor_ - shameless plug!), I still learn things about the complex ruleset all the time.  I run into people that think they know everything about d20 backwards and forwards and they are usually wrong but refuse to be flexible.  I am happy to see that Heinz is not one of those people   

To echo what Voadam posted already, I am happy to be playing, and in a high level game to boot!  It's more important to me that we are moving the game along than to worry about the rules so much.  But since we have this rather unique situation where we are playing on a forum with lots of d20 experts, I guess this is probably the best way to determine things.

Anyway, I am having a good time and hope we can continue in the same vein.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 9, 2005)

Thanks for all your kind words! I'm having a great time too, and I really think this game has the potential to last for a long time.

I'm sure there will be further discussion about game rules as time goes on, but that's perfectly fine. I enjoy learning the ins and outs of the system, and have no problem admitting when I make mistakes (lots of practice  ).

That said, where's Isida been?


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 9, 2005)

*Insight:*

You have Tanus' AC listed as 27 on his character sheet, but by my math, this should be 25.

10 (base) + 6 (DEX mod) + 2 (monk class, incl. Monk's Belt) + 4 (WIS) + 2 (Bracers of Armor) + 1 (Amulet of Natural Armor) = 25.

Can you check it out?

Thanks,
Heinz


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 9, 2005)

Oh, and lest I forget....

Each character gets 600 xp for defeating the four fighter frescoes, flailing furiously in the fantastic fracas. (Sorry, got a little carried away there).


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 10, 2005)

Hey guys, just an FYI....

I'm gonna hit 'pause' and see what (if anything) Sir Vandon's going to do with that rug he noticed...

...and hope that Isida returns from exile.

Then, onward through the south door.

Thanks,
Heinz


----------



## JimAde (Jun 10, 2005)

Cool.  I'm going to be away most of this week-end anyway, so if necessary assume Martan follows along and blasts anything that needs blasting. 

See you on Monday.


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## Isida Kep'Tukari (Jun 12, 2005)

Isida has had a personal emergency and didn't have time to warn anyone.

When in doubt, Silence will investigate things, heal the others of their maladies, and bring the occasional holy smackdown upon large and/or dangerous-looking foes.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 12, 2005)

Isida Kep'Tukari said:
			
		

> Isida has had a personal emergency and didn't have time to warn anyone.
> 
> When in doubt, Silence will investigate things, heal the others of their maladies, and bring the occasional holy smackdown upon large and/or dangerous-looking foes.




No problem.  My comment was only an off-handed way of saying that you were missed.  

Hope all is well.


----------



## Voadam (Jun 12, 2005)

Btw I generally view game stats as mechanics related, so Vandon's low int and wis mean he has penalties on certain checks, a lower will save, and one fewer skill point per level.
.
I do not plan on playing him as particularly stupid however


----------



## Insight (Jun 12, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> *Insight:*
> 
> You have Tanus' AC listed as 27 on his character sheet, but by my math, this should be 25.
> 
> ...




You are correct.  It should be 25 base.  I must have had a magic item that added to AC and when I removed it, forgot to adjust the AC.  Or something like that


----------



## rangerjohn (Jun 13, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> You are correct.  It should be 25 base.  I must have had a magic item that added to AC and when I removed it, forgot to adjust the AC.  Or something like that




Or is it the feat that allows rogue levels to be counted for unarmed damage and ac?


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## Insight (Jun 13, 2005)

Hmm I don't know of any feat like that.  Ascetic Rogue allows a character to stack Rogue and Monk levels for the purposes of determining unarmed strike damage.  It does not mention anything about AC.

Post #139 explains Tanus' various bonuses in detail.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 15, 2005)

Somewhat off-topic, but useful for PBP gaming...

Does anyone know how to cut and paste pictures or text from a .pdf document and convert to different file formats (.jpg, .txt, etc.)?

Any help at all would be appreciated by your technically deficient DM.


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## Insight (Jun 15, 2005)

First, make sure your version of Acrobat is up to date.  I believe only the latest version allows you to copy and paste at all (and that may only be text, but I'm not 100% sure on that).

Other that that, I have no idea.


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## JimAde (Jun 15, 2005)

I have Adobe Reader 7.0 (the latest) and copy and paste works fine FROM a PDF.  Obviously you can't paste TO a pdf unless you have an actual pdf editor. 

I'm pretty sure you could copy and paste with earlier versions, too.  It is possible to create a pdf document that blocks copying, though, so it depends on what you're working with.

When you are viewing a document, you'll see some buttons in the toolbar.  One looks like a hand, and next to that is one that says "Select".  Click that to enter select mode, then just select the text or graphics you want, right-click and copy away.  Click the hand icon to go back to regular mode.


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## Voadam (Jun 15, 2005)

Some scanned pdfs are just pictures, snapshots of pages and the text can not be copied. Most that are designed to be pdfs instead of just scans allow you to select text (there should be a select text button on the toolbar) to copy the text from the document and paste it in others.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 16, 2005)

Thanks for the help, guys!  Much appreciated!


----------



## JimAde (Jun 16, 2005)

D'oh!  I thought Silence was asking Martan to cast Detect Magic.  Damn vow of silence!


----------



## Voadam (Jun 16, 2005)

For illusions you must interact with the illusion to get a will save to be able to see through them. Usually this means touching them.

I wouldn't waste the greater dispel on something we don't even know is a threat or inconvenience yet.

And I haven't detected evil or golems so no worries on those fields.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 20, 2005)

Hello All,

Sorry it's been relatively quiet these last few days.  I've been making preparations with my family to head out of town for a little vacation.  We'll be leaving today, and returning Thursday night.  I may have some brief Internet access, but I probably won't be able to post anything substantive until Friday.  We'll get back into the swing of things when I get back.

Thanks!
Heinz


----------



## JimAde (Jun 20, 2005)

Have a good time!  See you next week.


----------



## Krauss von Espy (Jun 24, 2005)

Hi, guys!  I'm back!


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## Insight (Jun 24, 2005)

Krauss von Espy said:
			
		

> Hi, guys!  I'm back!




Yay!

Unfortunately, I'll be busy starting this weekend getting ready for Origins.  Not sure how responsive I'm going to be until July 5th.


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## JimAde (Jun 24, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Yay!
> 
> Unfortunately, I'll be busy starting this weekend getting ready for Origins.  Not sure how responsive I'm going to be until July 5th.




Boo!


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## Krauss von Espy (Jun 24, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Yay!
> 
> Unfortunately, I'll be busy starting this weekend getting ready for Origins. Not sure how responsive I'm going to be until July 5th.




Are there are any general instructions you'd like to leave for me to NPC Tanus while you're busy?

Origins....sounds like a great time.  I'm jealous.


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## Insight (Jun 29, 2005)

[shameless plug]

My new project, Prestige Secrets: Assassins, just hit the virtual bookshelves on RPG NOW.  See the link in my sig.

[/shameless plug]


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## JimAde (Jul 4, 2005)

Krauss: Thanks for clarifying the modifiers you were using.  I thought you were applying the -4 AND starting with a +7 modiier instead of +11.

One other thing, and please feel free to tell me to just play and not worry about it: The Orb of Electricity spell doesn't allow SR (since you have to roll to hit with it) so SR and immunities normally don't apply.  Many people feel this makes the Orb spells too powerful and if you feel that way I'm more than happy to play it that way.

Thanks.

Insight: SWEET.  I wish I was published instead of being a slacker wannabe.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jul 4, 2005)

*JimAde,*


Just play and don't worry about it.   

Seriously....I know the Orb is a powerful spell, but I'm not convinced it's broken.  Besides, against the enemies in this dungeon, you'll need powerful spells.

As for the modifiers and other numerical details for combat rounds, I'm still tinkering with my posting style.  Sorry for the confusion about Martan's ranged touch modifier.  If ever you have a question about how I arrived at a certain number, please don't hesitate to ask.  I'm as prone to mistakes as anyone, and if I make one, I'd like to know about it so I don't repeat it.

Thanks!


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## Insight (Jul 5, 2005)

I'm back everyone!

Had a good time at Origins.  Second two days were a LOT better than the first two.  I think next time, I'm going to do my schedule differently.  Plus, I think I need to pare down my event time and do more networking.

Glad to see none of died while I was out.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jul 5, 2005)

Welcome back, Insight!


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## JimAde (Jul 5, 2005)

Gah!  I hate it when I do that.  I thought the Haversack allowed me to draw the scroll like drawing a weapon (can be combined with another move action) but it doesn't.  Still takes a Move action, but doesn't provoke an AoO.  Curse it!


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## Krauss von Espy (Jul 5, 2005)

JimAde,

In response to your comments on the IC thread....

As I understand it, casting a spell from a scroll follows most of the same rules as casting normally.  So, yes, you can Cast Defensively, and yes, it will provoke an AOO.


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## JimAde (Jul 5, 2005)

Ok, cool.  Casting defensively then.  Thanks.


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## Voadam (Jul 5, 2005)

Two rules points/questions.

Does the golem have 15 ft. reach? If only ten foot reach then Silence and Martan should not have drawn AoOs from their movement as they only entered threatened spaces and did not move out of threatened spaces. I'm refraining from looking up the iron golem stats during this fight, and I'm just guessing from the 10 foot base that he has 10 ft reach.

Second. Normally poison is one shot on a blade. This could be a special property of this golem or its blade but normally one use of poison uses it up is my understanding.


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## JimAde (Jul 5, 2005)

Actually I'm pretty sure I did move out of a threatened square, since I had to get fairly close to get to the top of the stairs.  I should have flown.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jul 6, 2005)

Voadam said:
			
		

> Two rules points/questions.
> 
> Does the golem have 15 ft. reach? If only ten foot reach then Silence and Martan should not have drawn AoOs from their movement as they only entered threatened spaces and did not move out of threatened spaces. I'm refraining from looking up the iron golem stats during this fight, and I'm just guessing from the 10 foot base that he has 10 ft reach.
> 
> Second. Normally poison is one shot on a blade. This could be a special property of this golem or its blade but normally one use of poison uses it up is my understanding.




The golem has 10' reach, but in looking at the map, I couldn't see any way for either Martan or Silence to get close enough to touch Tanus or Vandon, respectively, without leaving a threatened space. With 10' reach, the golem should be able to threaten just about every square on the platform, as I understand things. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought you couldn't move diagonally around a corner (which would be the only way to avoid the AOO, as far as I can see).

Second, this golem's weapon has magical properties that allow it to deliver poison with every blow struck. As you have no doubt surmised, this is a souped-up golem, considerably more dangerous than the garden variety.

I hope that clarifies things.


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## Voadam (Jul 6, 2005)

*Raw Fyi*

Looking more closely at the map the raised platform aspect with the stairs does show that to get to us Silence and Martan would have to go through threatened squares. My error before in thinking they could come in from the sides.


I don't want to retcon the fight but just point out for future reference that under RAW natural attacks don't generally get iterative attacks. I don't know why the designers made natural attacks not subject to iteratives, flurry of blows, etc. but that is just the way it is written. If I had my home campaign to do over I'd house rule that to the way you ran it though and make beasts more dangerous. On the plus side under most interpretations of RAW the DC for the save would be based off Tanus' HD not that of a base rust monster so it would go up considerably (10 + 1/2 HD, +1 Con, +4 racial).

Either way on either issue, you are the DM and I'm happy with how the game is going.


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## Insight (Jul 6, 2005)

Hmm, well the Rust Monster getting iterative attacks in an interesting question.  The base Rust Monster only has a BAB of +3, so we don't know whether it would get additional attacks based on BAB.  It doesn't seem like the antennae are considered a natural attack because it uses the touch mechanic rather than a standard attack roll.  Correct me if I'm wrong here, but most natural attacks use standard attack rolls, not touch attacks.

What's also confusing is that when Tanus is polymorphed, he gains the Rust Monster's (Ex) abilities, which for the Rust Monster is just the Rust ability.  He should retain his own (Ex) abilities, but this is not explicitly stated in the text of the Polymorph spell.  Therefore, Tanus should still have Flurry, which is a nonspellcasting class ability (generally treated as Ex abilities unless otherwise specified).  But since this isn't specifically stated in the SRD, it's up to the DM.

Yay that was fun!  I hope the poison isn't going to cause any long term damage!  Hopefully Silence has some Neutralize Poison memorized, or at least Restoration.


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## Voadam (Jul 6, 2005)

Natural Weapons: *Natural weapons are weapons that are physically a part of a creature*. A creature making a melee attack with a natural weapon is considered armed and does not provoke attacks of opportunity. Likewise, it threatens any space it can reach. Creatures do not receive additional attacks from a high base attack bonus when using natural weapons.

Manufactured Weapons: Some monsters employ manufactured weapons when they attack. Creatures that use swords, bows, spears, and the like follow the same rules as characters, including those for additional attacks from a high base attack bonus and two-weapon fighting penalties. This category also includes “found items,” such as rocks and logs, that a creature wields in combat— in essence, any weapon that is not intrinsic to the creature.

For an example of a noniterative touch attack check the wraith-dreadwraith entry. BAB +8 full attack = 1 incorporeal touch.


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## Voadam (Jul 6, 2005)

And as amusing as it sounds, a Kung Fu rust monster just doesn't seem right. While he retains his own class abilities and only loses racial abilities, I don't think a rust monster can take advantage of flurry with its antennae under RAW.

When using flurry of blows, a monk may attack only with unarmed strikes or with special monk weapons (kama, nunchaku, quarterstaff, sai, shuriken, and siangham).

Unarmed Strike: At 1st level, a monk gains Improved Unarmed Strike as a bonus feat. A monk’s attacks may be with either fist interchangeably or even from elbows, knees, and feet.


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## Krauss von Espy (Jul 6, 2005)

Yeah....

I had to put in a lot of thought as to whether I was handling Tanus' attack correctly in his polymorphed form.  Skip Williams has a nice 4-part article series on the WOTC website, under their "Rules of the Game" section, which I read pretty thoroughly.  Polymorph (and other change-of-form effects) is a pretty complicated animal.

When all is said and done, I'm going to go ahead and stand behind the way I ran the round.  Will I swear that it was handled correctly acording to the RAW?  Nope.  In fact, after reading the discussion between Voadam and Insight, I'm more confused than ever.  There's a very good chance that a mistake was made.  But, like you said, Voadam, I don't think anybody wants to go back and retcon the battle.  I'll try to do my homework a little better the next time it comes around.

Still, just for kicks, I might throw the question out over on the D&D Rules board, just to see what the masses say.

Thanks for all your input!


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## Krauss von Espy (Jul 7, 2005)

Well, the early returns are coming in to support your take on things, Voadam.  It does appear that the Flurry shouldn't have been allowed.  Oh, well.  Next time I'm DMing a game where a high level monk gets polymorphed into a Rust Monster to take out a revved up Iron Golem, I'll know better... 

Seriously, I'm not sure you guys understand how amazing it is that you were able to take that thing down at all, let alone with no casualties.  That was a CR 16 bad boy, and it never really got the chance to show how devastating it was meant to be.

Chalk it up to Vandon's Golembane Scarab and Martan's electrical affinity mostly...but also good tactics and some favorable die rolls.  If the Golem had gotten the chance to make a full attack at any point, the body count would have piled up in a hurry, I'm quite confident.

At any rate, everybody gets 3600 xp for the victory!  Well done!


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## JimAde (Jul 7, 2005)

Woo hoo!  Sweet.

And just in case anybody's wondering: No, I don't have another one of those scrolls. 

Regardless of the RAW, I love the Rust Monster Monk.  If I had any artistic talent I'd definitely do a sketch.


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## Voadam (Jul 7, 2005)

*vacation*

Head's up.

I will be on vacation and without internet access from 7/9 to 7/17.


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## JimAde (Jul 8, 2005)

Heads up from me, too: I will be away from the internet (if that makes sense) from Noon today (Eastern US time zone) until Monday.  Feel free to NPC me if necessary, and I'll see y'all on Monday.


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## JimAde (Jul 13, 2005)

Are we still on?  Did I miss something from Krauss indicating he'd be away?


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## Insight (Jul 15, 2005)

Are we waiting on Voadam to get back from vacation?


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## JimAde (Jul 19, 2005)

I just looked at Krauss's profile and his last activity was 7/11.  Does anyone know what's happened to him?  Maybe he lost his net connection for some reason.


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## Insight (Jul 19, 2005)

No idea.  I checked his other game and they are wondering too.  I'll keep my eye on it, but I'm actually suffering from a bit of RPG overload, so I won't cry or anything if he doesn't come back   

I would like to continue the game if possible.


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## JimAde (Jul 20, 2005)

I _will_ cry.

Big, salty, manly tears.

'Cause I'm like that.



Man, I have GOT to quit posting this late at night...


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## Voadam (Jul 20, 2005)

Insight said:
			
		

> Are we waiting on Voadam to get back from vacation?




I'm back.


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## Insight (Jul 21, 2005)

Looks like Isida is going to be out for an extended period, and we still haven't seen hide nor hair of the GM for more than a week.

*** bring out yer dead ***


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## JimAde (Jul 21, 2005)

I hope everything's OK with Heinz.


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