# LOST - Season Premiere Wednesday 9:00 PM EDT



## fett527 (Sep 20, 2005)

> Next Episode:
> Wednesday, Sept. 21, 8/7c
> "Destination: Lost"
> Prepare for the season premiere of Lost with a look back at the key events of the last season!
> ...



I AM STOKED!

Who's with me?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 20, 2005)

I AM SO STOKED!  Been waiting for this.


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 20, 2005)

Stoked is such a big word.

But, yeah.


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## Crothian (Sep 20, 2005)

I wonder if they will show anything of significence this year?


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## fett527 (Sep 20, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I wonder if they will show anything of significence this year?




I assume we'll find out what's in the hatch at least.


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 20, 2005)

Probably just some guy yelling: "Shut the hatch! Shut it! Draft!"


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 20, 2005)

To refreash thoughs of the final: http://www.enworld.org/showthread.php?t=133558


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## Crothian (Sep 20, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I assume we'll find out what's in the hatch at least.




But I imagine it will be like the rest of the show, where they show you something that really doesn't answer the question or provide any real useful information.


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 20, 2005)

It'll probably be like in Alias. We see mysteries but we never seen any answers.

In Alias, all answers are answered by someone. Someone that has the answers.

In Lost, that could be tricky. It's not like they can always go to Europe to track people down.


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## Crothian (Sep 20, 2005)

Well, so far no one has the answers.


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## fett527 (Sep 20, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> But I imagine it will be like the rest of the show, where they show you something that really doesn't answer the question or provide any real useful information.




I sense a tinge of frustration in your tone...


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## Crothian (Sep 20, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I sense a tinge of frustration in your tone...




its a good show, I watch it and enjoy it, but the build up and falso promises taxes me some.  Plus in this age of TV I really expect the "secrets" to be really lame and not at all consistant with the show.


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## Ambrus (Sep 20, 2005)

Apparently Matthew Fox when asked backstage at the emmies what was going to be found in the hatch he responded "It's not what but *who*". Don't know what to make of that, but I've been looking forward to tomorow's episode all summer.


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## Crothian (Sep 20, 2005)

Ambrus said:
			
		

> Apparently Matthew Fox when asked backstage at the emmies what was going to be found in the hatch he responded "It's not what but *who*". Don't know what to make of that, but I've been looking forward to tomorow's episode all summer.




Amelia Airhart...no, they found her on Star Trek Voyager

What's his name's dad!!


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## Dagger75 (Sep 20, 2005)

I just we get some answers in the show.  I am tired of getting strung along week after week. I hope it doesn't get to be like a Robert Jordan book build up, build up, more build up, why are you still building up, holy cow he added more crap.

 I read the spoilers for the episode already.


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## KaosDevice (Sep 20, 2005)

There are spoilers, c'mon spill some inviso text on me! 

I'm really looking forward to the show tomorrow.


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## Just_Hal (Sep 20, 2005)

STOKED here as well, and I read the spoilers as well, they showed the season opener in Hawaii a week or so ago so go to lost-tv.com (I think) to get your fix.  It alos appears we will have answers soon for a few of the cliffhangers.


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## Acid_crash (Sep 21, 2005)

I'm STOKED and READY and EXCITED!


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## Steverooo (Sep 21, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I wonder if they will show anything of significence this year?




According to TPTB on the show, they realized that they gave away too little, last year, and are planning to make up for it with several revelations, early in this season.  We get to find out what's in the hatch, tonight...


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## BrooklynKnight (Sep 21, 2005)

In the final few episodes of last season they show jack flirting with some girl at the bar before he gets on the plane. I wouldnt be suprised if we saw her this season.


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 21, 2005)

We will.


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 21, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> In the final few episodes of last season they show jack flirting with some girl at the bar before he gets on the plane. I wouldnt be suprised if we saw her this season.



The actresses name was Michelle Rodriguez, she was in Resident Evil, and the new Bloodrayne movie. 



Spoiler



I remember hearing that she joined the show. Plus if you look on her IMDB.com page you see she is listed as 2005-


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## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 21, 2005)

Michelle Rodriguez is tray hot. Hotx3. Niftiness. Another strong woman who can get Jack's attention.


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## Swoop109 (Sep 21, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Well, so far no one has the answers.



i think we got some answers. It's just that we have not learned the right questions.


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## KaosDevice (Sep 21, 2005)

The big answer I need to find is whether I am doing chli dogs or french bread pizza or what for my pre and during Lost munchies.


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## David Howery (Sep 21, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> The actresses name was Michelle Rodriguez, she was in Resident Evil, and the new Bloodrayne movie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...



wasn't she in SWAT too?  Of course, that's not a trio of movies you'd want to brag about being in... no wonder she made the jump to TV...


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## Crothian (Sep 21, 2005)

Swoop109 said:
			
		

> i think we got some answers. It's just that we have not learned the right questions.




we got incompl;ete answers, and as I learned in college an incomplete answer is not acceptible.


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## spatha (Sep 21, 2005)

I am so looking forward to the new season.


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## KaosDevice (Sep 21, 2005)

Well, the producers are making something of a big deal that the first three episodes will give quite a few answers to the island, the crash and that hatch.

And everyone knows that that hatch is a baaaaadddddmotha....


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## Numion (Sep 21, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> In Alias, all answers are answered by someone. Someone that has the answers.
> 
> In Lost, that could be tricky. It's not like they can always go to Europe to track people down.




Maybe they'll find a nightclub where the bad guys hang out (like in Alias), and they need to improvise some nasty costume from bamboo for the hot chick (like in Alias). I sense a good season coming up!


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## BrooklynKnight (Sep 21, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> wasn't she in SWAT too?  Of course, that's not a trio of movies you'd want to brag about being in... no wonder she made the jump to TV...




I KNEW she looked familar.

Well, if i remember correctly she said she was sitting in the very back of the plane. Which we know tore off.

Lets make a few assumptions here.

The Survivors have found wreckage and luggage and other peices on the island, and at some point I think Jack said that the plane flew over the island and skidded across the jungle before coming to a rest at the beach...

A. The tail end of the plan landed on the other end of the island...

B. People survived from the tail end...


Then we have this mysterious group of people on a boat who captured walt and set fire to the raft....

A. Lets assume that these people are "the others" that the french woman was talking about...

B. Nathan was part of this group. Perhaps he was a go between for the group and the frenchwoman. When Claire escaped him, the frenchwoman tried to track her down in efforts to get her son back (who would now be grown).

C. The Others may be holding hostage other survivors from the plane, survivors from the tail end, and perhaps survivors picked off the beach before a full headcount was made.

D. This season we may see more open conflict between "the others" and the survivors.

E. The Others know more about the island then the surviors do, but they dont know everything. "The Hatch" is perhaps some big peice that the others dont know about.

F. The Hatch may be a blessing or a curse......


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## devilbat (Sep 21, 2005)

I'm super pumped about the season premier tonight.  Lost was my favorite show last year, and all you naysayers are just impatient


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## John Cooper (Sep 22, 2005)

Besides Michelle Rodriguez's character, I fully expect the husband of that black lady we saw in the early episodes (who was convinced her husband wasn't dead - her name escapes me at the moment, but she's the one who prayed with Charlie), to have survived the crash of the rear section of the plane.


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## The_lurkeR (Sep 22, 2005)

Her name was Rose.
From what I've heard she was supposed to have a bigger role in season 1 but had scheduling conflicts. She may likely be more regular this season.

1:30 before showtime... have to run out for chinese before 9


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## Truth Seeker (Sep 22, 2005)

*Watching all the stokes and pumps effects*

Weird.


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## Flexor the Mighty! (Sep 22, 2005)

Is there any point to watching this if I haven't seen the previous season?


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## Viking Bastard (Sep 22, 2005)

Get yourself a cheat sheet.

30 minutes work.


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## BrooklynKnight (Sep 22, 2005)

Was that the guy jack was running in the stadium with?


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## dravot (Sep 22, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> Was that the guy jack was running in the stadium with?



Yes, it was Desmond.


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## BrooklynKnight (Sep 22, 2005)

dravot said:
			
		

> Yes, it was Desmond.




So just to be clear..



Spoiler



the guy at the end of the episode, who held a gun to Lock's head, was the same guy that jack was running at the stadium with...



Maybe its cause I ran to the bathroom, but I missed the main significance of "that guy"...


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## Kylara (Sep 22, 2005)

He was talking to Jack in the Stadium after the surgery, he was talking to him about miracles.


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## Tauric (Sep 22, 2005)

Yup.  Jack knew when he (the guy) called him (Jack) "brother", and then Jack said, "You!"


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## Jaws (Sep 22, 2005)

*Spoilers!*



			
				Tauric said:
			
		

> Yup.  Jack knew when he (the guy) called him (Jack) "brother", and then Jack said, "You!"




I wonder if it will be the same guy Hurley mentioned while he was in the looney bin.


Peace and smiles 

j.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

Sort of saw that coming, Desmond I mean.  Brought to the island they were, selected!


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## Jaws (Sep 22, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Sort of saw that coming, Desmond I mean.  Brought to the island they were, selected!



Desmond is a new character, right? I missed one or two episodes of last season.


Peace and smiles 

j.


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## CrusaderX (Sep 22, 2005)

Jaws said:
			
		

> I wonder if it will be the same guy Hurley mentioned while he was in the looney bin.




I think we already saw the looney bin numbers guy last season, didn't we?


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## CrusaderX (Sep 22, 2005)

Jaws said:
			
		

> Desmond is a new character, right? I missed one or two episodes of last season.




Yep, he's new.


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## CrusaderX (Sep 22, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Sort of saw that coming, Desmond I mean.  Brought to the island they were, selected!




Everything happens for a reason...

Now, it can't be a coincidence that Sara and Locke were both supposed to be paralyzed, but both ended up walking, right?


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## Jaws (Sep 22, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> I think we already saw the looney bin numbers guy last season, didn't we?
> 
> Yep, he's new.



I missed the 'Hurley' episode from last season. That one I know for sure.

I think I'm up to speed now with what is going on. I should buy the DVDs of Season 1.


Peace and smiles 

j.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Everything happens for a reason...
> 
> Now, it can't be a coincidence that Sara and Locke were both supposed to be paralyzed, but both ended up walking, right?



Makes you wonder if Sara will not show up on the island.  

Also, what was the drug?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Everything happens for a reason...



Which goes to the theory that there are some that are plants (moles) in the group.


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## Rel (Sep 22, 2005)

Wow.  Just...wow.

The formula for this show is just like a really good RPG campaign:  The answers to mysteries are always forthcoming.  But they always reveal even bigger mysteries!


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## WayneLigon (Sep 22, 2005)

Dude.. that was messed up.


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## David Howery (Sep 22, 2005)

I have to say, I'm surprised at Jack's non-interest in Hurley's story about the numbers.  He's supposed to be a smart guy, yet he doesn't even wonder at the fact that that many numbers in the exact same sequence show up in Hurley's sanitarium and on the hatch?!  That's stretching coincidence far too thin, and you'd think he'd realize that...


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## WayneLigon (Sep 22, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> I have to say, I'm surprised at Jack's non-interest in Hurley's story about the numbers.... That's stretching coincidence far too thin, and you'd think he'd realize that...




Hurley starts off by telling him he was in a psych ward.  That pretty much derails anything Hurley would say after that, particularly since he comes up with two very improbable things right after saying that.


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## Cthulhudrew (Sep 22, 2005)

So... at the bottom of the hatch is...

the Batcave?

Cool.


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## stevelabny (Sep 22, 2005)

continuing the trend from about 3/5 of last season, watching new episodes of this show is starting to feel like a chore.

today, they think they do us a favor of "revelaing" something. but we still have no idea what the hell is going on, and they mostly ignored all the other characters to give the extra time necessary to build suspense for the hatch scenes.

And I can't get over how stupid it was for Jack to go down the hatch alone. 

Tonight really needed to be a 2 hour episode.


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## Crothian (Sep 22, 2005)

We didn't learn what was down the Hatch though...sure its this guy Desmond who Jack met once and just happens to remeber him (and that was so obvious I'm ashamed of the show), but what is that place?  It seems to be some big elaberate undergroiund construction, at first I was thinking a boat or submarine but that half dome room doesn't jive with that.  And why are there so many mirrors there?  I know he has them set up to see what is at the hatch but it seems like there would need to be morrors there for asome other reason and he just used them for the look out thing.

We see the quaritne that conects with the disease crazy french woman mentioned but really learn nothing there.

The appearence of Walt at the same time as the voices was odd.  Did Jack hear the voices when he say his father on the island? There might be a conection there.

And the final bit Mr Voice at the end says that next week we will learn the fate or however it was phrased of everyone.  The problem is everytime they tell us this, they don't actually do it.


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## Banshee16 (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> The actresses name was Michelle Rodriguez, she was in Resident Evil, and the new Bloodrayne movie.
> 
> 
> 
> ...




And the Fast and the Furious...

Banshee


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## Banshee16 (Sep 22, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> We didn't learn what was down the Hatch though...sure its this guy Desmond who Jack met once and just happens to remeber him (and that was so obvious I'm ashamed of the show), but what is that place?  It seems to be some big elaberate undergroiund construction, at first I was thinking a boat or submarine but that half dome room doesn't jive with that.  And why are there so many mirrors there?  I know he has them set up to see what is at the hatch but it seems like there would need to be morrors there for asome other reason and he just used them for the look out thing.
> 
> We see the quaritne that conects with the disease crazy french woman mentioned but really learn nothing there.
> 
> ...




But the question is.....why was Quarantine written on the *inside* of the hatch?  It wasn't on the outside.

I have to say, when the episode first started, and the guy was waking up and working out, I thought I'd tuned into the wrong show, until he grabbed the rifle and ran for the periscope.

It's a bit of a weird juxtaposition, with the guy in the hatch seeming almost mundane, but then Walt appearing as a ghost or something, in a place he shouldn't be.

I figure Jack recognized Desmond because he'd been there at a pivotal part of his life.....the night that he contemplated failure to save Sara, before he learned that he had, and went on to start dating her, etc.

Banshee


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## bodhi (Sep 22, 2005)

Swoop109 said:
			
		

> i think we got some answers. It's just that we have not learned the right questions.




How many roads must a man walk down?


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## Steverooo (Sep 22, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> In the final few episodes of last season they show jack flirting with some girl at the bar before he gets on the plane. I wouldnt be suprised if we saw her this season.




Anna Lucia!  You got some 'splainin' to do!


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## Steverooo (Sep 22, 2005)

The_lurkeR said:
			
		

> Her name was Rose.
> From what I've heard she was supposed to have a bigger role in season 1 but had scheduling conflicts. She may likely be more regular this season.




...and his name was Bernard, IIRC.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> I have to say, I'm surprised at Jack's non-interest in Hurley's story about the numbers.  He's supposed to be a smart guy, yet he doesn't even wonder at the fact that that many numbers in the exact same sequence show up in Hurley's sanitarium and on the hatch?!  That's stretching coincidence far too thin, and you'd think he'd realize that...




I don't know if he is not interested, I think he is keeping a lot to himself until he has more information to go on.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

Ok, I will say it because no one else has...Desmond may really be Jack's brother!


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## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

I liked the episode.

I too was taken aback at the beginning wondering what channel I was on, then I thought it was a flashback and was trying to figure out who it could be.  It will be interesting to see if Walt is projecting somehow since we now he's special.  I also felt the thing with Desmond in Jack's background and then him being on the island was contrived.  I wish they had maybe shown that flashback late last season so we would have mostly forgotten about it and then it would have been more effective.  I liked Kate counting as she went down the hatch, as she did in the "Pilot" episode, like Jack taught her.  I also think the voiceover about everyone's fate just means they will show us what happens on the raft next week.


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 22, 2005)

Whatching the 1st season on DVD I noticed a running theme. Several of the episodes open with the camera on someones eye, someone waking up. Thats how I knew I was the right channel.   


As for Walt. I think he appeared to Shannon, mabey the others were around and he appeared to warn her.


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## WizarDru (Sep 22, 2005)

Actually, I think "Walt" was the Others, or the disease that makes you into one of them.

Notice that the two times we have 'visions' of people who can't or shouldn't be there that the person seeing them is both exhausted and distraught.  The only people who hear the voices are always alone.

More interesting to me is the mural on the wall, with the number 108 written several times...


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## Steverooo (Sep 22, 2005)

I liked that they are continuing the practice, begun late last season, of having flashbacks from several people within the same episode, instead of "All Charlie's", etc.  This makes it more interesting, to me!...


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## WayneLigon (Sep 22, 2005)

I went over to The Fuselage to look at something... 

Apparently during Walt's spooky psychic scene, he's speaking backwards. The general consensus seems to be he's saying 'Don't touch the button. The button's bad'.

When Shannon was alone, I thought I'd hear 'the whispers' but I couldn't hear anything, even though I turned the TV up a little, but apparently they were there. Did anyone hear what they said?

Another connection between the passengers: the man who Sarah crashed into and killed apparently was Boone and Shannon's dad.


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## mmu1 (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> More interesting to me is the mural on the wall, with the number 108 written several times...




Well, those numbers seem to be everywhere, don't they? I'd be surprised if some reference to the 4 8 15 16 23 42 sequence _wasn't_ there.


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## dravot (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Whatching the 1st season on DVD I noticed a running theme. Several of the episodes open with the camera on someones eye, someone waking up. Thats how I knew I was the right channel.



Yeah, they did that for every episode that they could - if they couldn't it was usually because the episode was an immediate continuation from the one previously.

Actually, the episodes usually opened with someone waking up, and ended at night.

When we read the Odyssey in high school, it was pointed out to us that every chapter began in the morning, and ended at night.

The fact that Lost does the same thing (when feasible) is not...lost on me.


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 22, 2005)

mmu1 said:
			
		

> Well, those numbers seem to be everywhere, aren't they? I'd be surprised if some reference to the 4 8 15 16 23 42 sequence _wasn't_ there.



Those numbers add up to 108.


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## dravot (Sep 22, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Another connection between the passengers: the man who Sarah crashed into and killed apparently was Boone and Shannon's dad.



Oh?  I don't recall Boone and Shannon's dad ever appearing last season.  What episode was he in?


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## mmu1 (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Those numbers add up to 108.




That was my point.


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## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

dravot said:
			
		

> Oh?  I don't recall Boone and Shannon's dad ever appearing last season.  What episode was he in?




I think we just knew they (parents) died in a car wreck.  I'll have to check it though.


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## JoeBlank (Sep 22, 2005)

I was pleased. I fully expected, and continue to expect, the solution to each mystery to be another, deeper, mystery. If you want all the answers, go see a movie. For a show like this to continue to keep an audience it has to reveal just enough so that we are not being strung along, but it also has to present enough new questions for us to want more answers.

The fact that there is a guy living in the hatch is a pretty big revelation. And the fact that he had a previous connection to Jack makes it bigger. Add in that he has the sum of Hugo's numbers written all over the walls, and things are beginning to be tied together. 

fett527, great catch on Kate's counting going back to the Pilot episode. It is little things like this that keep the show internally consistant. 

I want to see what happened to Walt, and the rest of the guys on the raft, but I'm willing to wait until next week. Great episode.


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## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> I was pleased. I fully expected, and continue to expect, the solution to each mystery to be another, deeper, mystery. If you want all the answers, go see a movie. For a show like this to continue to keep an audience it has to reveal just enough so that we are not being strung along, but it also has to present enough new questions for us to want more answers...




Very well put.  I agree wholeheartedly!


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## WizarDru (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Those numbers add up to 108.




Which, in turn, was the number of their flight.  Wheels within wheels.....


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## EricNoah (Sep 22, 2005)

Had never seen an episode.  Caught the last half of the preview show, then watched the premeir.  Me = hooked.


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 22, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I went over to The Fuselage to look at something...
> 
> Apparently during Walt's spooky psychic scene, he's speaking backwards. The general consensus seems to be he's saying 'Don't touch the button. The button's bad'.
> 
> ...




Do you have a link?


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Which, in turn, was the number of their flight.  Wheels within wheels.....




I thought their flight # was 815


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## dravot (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I thought their flight # was 815



It is flight #815 (8 and 15 being two of the numbers)


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## Rel (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I thought their flight # was 815




YES!  And if you switch the order and change the 5 to a 0 then you get 108!  Wheels within wheels I tell you!


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## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> YES!  And if you switch the order and change the 5 to a 0 then you get 108!  Wheels within wheels I tell you!




I got a link for you if want to play that game...

http://thelostnumbers1.greatestjournal.com/


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## Rel (Sep 22, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I got a link for you if want to play that game...
> 
> http://thelostnumbers1.greatestjournal.com/




Fortunately for me and my sanity, I don't want to play that game.


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## devilbat (Sep 22, 2005)

> It's a bit of a weird juxtaposition, with the guy in the hatch seeming almost mundane, but then Walt appearing as a ghost or something, in a place he shouldn't be.




And wet, don't forget soaking wet.  I thought that scene was creepy greatness, and if the whispers were backwards, then that makes it even better.

I am so looking forward to finding out what the link is to that dog.  Every time it takes off for a crunch, crazyness ensues.

I was a little dissapointed that the guy in the hatch was Desmond.  As soon as he tells Jack he'll see him in another life, you knew it was him in the hatch.

Quote of the episode.  Hurley spilling the beans about the numbers to Jack, and all he gets was "You were in a Psych ward?".  Hilarious

When the episode started, I was trying to figure out who's flashback is was, but I was engrossed with the fact that the guy had both a record player and adult size bunk beds.  Sweet.


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## Ambrus (Sep 22, 2005)

My first impression when I saw the guy in the hatch with all his old seventies and eighties technology was that it was a flashback but I couldn't figure out of who. When I heard the explosion of the hatch being opened from outside it suddenly clicked for me. I figured that this guy had a huge underground living complex and had been down there for several decades. It seemed to me that it would require an awful lot of money to have a huge underground bunker built on a deserted island in secret and have it sumptously furnished and stocked with near limitless food supplies, technology and electricity. Suddenly it occured to me that this guy with the hatch with the numbers written on the outside must be like Hurley; a guy who made it rich with the numbers but became an equal menace to everyone around him. I figured he'd used his wealth to buy a deserted island, have the bunker built and stocked with supplies and then shut himself inside to keep the rest of the world safe. That's why I'd figured he'd inscribed the word "quarantine" on the inside of the hatch and hadn't had a ladder that led back up to it.

It made perfect sense until it was revealed the guy was Desmond; a guy Jack had met in the states just a few years earlier. Now I don't really get it...


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## Belen (Sep 22, 2005)

Quarantine was written on the inside.  It was also locked from the inside and Desmond was armed. It appears that Demond shut himself away from the island.  The island was the quarantine zone.  Otherwise, it would have been written on the ouside of the hatch.


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## Chaldfont (Sep 22, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> I have to say, I'm surprised at Jack's non-interest in Hurley's story about the numbers.  He's supposed to be a smart guy, yet he doesn't even wonder at the fact that that many numbers in the exact same sequence show up in Hurley's sanitarium and on the hatch?!  That's stretching coincidence far too thin, and you'd think he'd realize that...




I thought this too. I just chalk it up to "The Scully Blindspot" which is a concept my wife and I came up with to explain when characters in a movie or TV show don't do the obvious thing so that the writers have an excuse to continue the mystery. It's named for Scully on the X-Files since after 7 seasons of weirdness she still maintained an unexplainable skepticism.

There are a lot of Scully Blindspots in Lost. My #1: Why haven't the characters spent more time exploring the island? There could be a Club Med just a few miles away and they wouldn't even know!

Even so, I'm hooked on this show. My wife and I got DVR just for this and Alias.


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## John Crichton (Sep 22, 2005)

Chaldfont said:
			
		

> There are a lot of Scully Blindspots in Lost. My #1: Why haven't the characters spent more time exploring the island? There could be a Club Med just a few miles away and they wouldn't even know!



While the explorer in me would want to, my practical side would be too damn scared with all the crazy stuff that has happened.  It's basically too dangeous, not to mention that they don't have unlimted supplies.

On the ep - Great stuff and a proper season opener.  I had a few "no way!" moments and some healthy gasping out loud.  Not at the obvious stuff, mind you (like the Desmond reveal) but at the Walt, creepy light out of the hole and opening reveal stuff.


----------



## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

Chaldfont said:
			
		

> There are a lot of Scully Blindspots in Lost. My #1: Why haven't the characters spent more time exploring the island? There could be a Club Med just a few miles away and they wouldn't even know!




Some fearsome creature shaking the trees.  Mysterious others out to get them.  Fear of being separated from the group at large.  Wild boar and who knows what other wild animals out there.

I know what you mean, just thought I would play devil's advocate.  Seems like they could have at least explored along the coast line a bit more.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Those numbers add up to 108.





Which in turn add up to 9, but that may not be signifigant.  

Alright, Sun was supposed to leave the airport at 8:15, the flight was No. 815, and 8 1 5 reoccur in a number of places. 

But what about the other numbers? Have they appeared anywhere aside from Hurley's lotto number?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> But what about the other numbers? Have they appeared anywhere aside from Hurley's lotto number?



Everywhere, location of passager seats, safe deposit box, on the hatch...the numbers are all around!


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Sep 22, 2005)

Well I watched it after never seeing another episode and I was totally...Lost.  It seemed like there was something interesting going on but without any clue as to who the characters were and what was up I was mostly confused.  The acting seemed excellent though.  If I ever find the S1 DVD set used on ebay and have the cash I'll have to check it out.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 22, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I know what you mean, just thought I would play devil's advocate.  Seems like they could have at least explored along the coast line a bit more.



Sayid has done this, and so presumably have Locke and Boone. While Locke might keep a Club Med a secret, since he may well lose the use of his legs if and when he leaves the island, I doubt the other two would be able to keep it a secret, at least not from Shannon, who would high-tail it over there.

The current question, though, is how long ago Desmond left whatever city Jack was a doctor. The '70s stuff made me think we were looking at a young Locke at first. But the complex looks cobbled together: We have an (apparently) underground geodesic dome, some cave-like tunnels, and then what looks like a secondary exit with advanced plumbing leading to the outside. If that was the front door, I would expect it to be set up a lot differently, including more security. Desmond's jury-rigged set-up suggests he didn't build the place, but has just taken it over.


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Sep 22, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Some fearsome creature shaking the trees.  Mysterious others out to get them.  Fear of being separated from the group at large.  Wild boar and who knows what other wild animals out there.
> 
> I know what you mean, just thought I would play devil's advocate.  Seems like they could have at least explored along the coast line a bit more.




When Lock is getting pulled under ground in the previous episode there is a destinct mechanical sound. Almost like a roller coaster being pulled up a hill.

I dont know if anyone noticed it, but I'm starting to think that "black mist" Is some kind of machine that runs along the ground, and the mist they saw was the exaust.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> The current question, though, is how long ago Desmond left whatever city Jack was a doctor. The '70s stuff made me think we were looking at a young Locke at first. But the complex looks cobbled together: We have an (apparently) underground geodesic dome, some cave-like tunnels, and then what looks like a secondary exit with advanced plumbing leading to the outside. If that was the front door, I would expect it to be set up a lot differently, including more security. Desmond's jury-rigged set-up suggests he didn't build the place, but has just taken it over.



Someone had to replace Hugo's guys, who replaced someone else...another dot to connect.

I still think the island was a weapon test site (nuke + other) from after WW2, that or Nemo's island.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> When Lock is getting pulled under ground in the previous episode there is a destinct mechanical sound. Almost like a roller coaster being pulled up a hill.
> 
> I dont know if anyone noticed it, but I'm starting to think that "black mist" Is some kind of machine that runs along the ground, and the mist they saw was the exaust.



Thought that last season BUT it could be both, underground people (miners) and then something above...


----------



## Truth Seeker (Sep 22, 2005)

*Just listens to the number talk*

Weirder...


----------



## Taelorn76 (Sep 22, 2005)

Does anyone have a link to the site where they explain that Walt was talking backwards?


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 22, 2005)

Take a look at:

http://thelostnumbers1.greatestjournal.com/


----------



## Viking Bastard (Sep 22, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> Probably just some guy yelling: "Shut the hatch! Shut it! Draft!"



Weird how I turned out to be right.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Does anyone have a link to the site where they explain that Walt was talking backwards?




http://www.thefuselage.com/

Some more stuff from there. The symbol all over the underground area is Chinese, so maybe they are the ones the built it.



> I dont know if anyone noticed it, but I'm starting to think that "black mist" Is some kind of machine that runs along the ground, and the mist they saw was the exaust.




Except that we saw the mist hover, and then move off, not disperse like smoke would. It moved like a swarm of insects. That the 'security system' is a machine and it's underground somehow is probable; what the black mist is, I have no idea unless it's somehow related to the 'flying carpets' that destroyed the jet engine (and probably the plane itself). The 'moving mist' though seems far beyond any technology we could make, though I had thought at one time it could be some knid of magnetic field moving iron particles at very high speeds. Still requires an astonishing breakhtruogh in technology, though.

There is one thing I have seen: the creators have stated that the true nature of the island will not be revealed until the very last episode of the series. They also stated that they have an 'escape plan' in case of cancellation where they can wrap things up in three or four episodes.


----------



## Arnwyn (Sep 22, 2005)

This episode had loads and _loads_ of "WTF?" moments for me:

- a freakin' James Bond villain hideout is down there?

- and: there's power and running water down there, too? Hell, just get a crowd of crash survivors with torches and clubs, go down there, mug the guy, and everyone can have a damn shower and make themselves smoothies!

- When I saw the "Quarantine" sign on the inside of the hatch, I'm figuring that the island is the actual "disease" zone (and makes sense, considering the voices and what the French woman said happened to her colleagues).

- not sure how they're going to explain Desmond ending up in the hatch with all the 70's James Bond stuff when he was in the U.S. not too long ago...

- wonder what Desmond is injecting himself with? Something to protect himself from the island?

- wonder how much food and non-perishables can _really_ be stored down there, and how?

- and, again: power? running water? blenders and smoothies?


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 22, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> - and, again: power? running water? blenders and smoothies?




No big suprise, there.  We've been told and seen a giant power wire from the ocen floor leading up into the jungle.  Rosseau specifically mentioned a complex somewhere on the island....the one where the transmitter is that the others took over.  It's possible this is a remote outpost for that installation.  If they were testing biological weapons here in the 1970s, that would make a lot of sene for the quarantine stuff.

There was a URL with the number 108 in the end credits.  Did anyone get it?


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Sep 22, 2005)

maybe you're thinking oceanicflight815.com ?


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 22, 2005)

As has been pointed out, I was hooked on crack...the flight number is 815.  The number 108 lodged in my brain because of the URL I mentioned...though I'll have to check it on Tivo when I get home tonight.

But, wanna see something creepy?

Quite possibly I am thinking of the URL BK just mentioned.

Check THIS out.  Read the second line.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> As has been pointed out, I was hooked on crack...the flight number is 815.  The number 108 lodged in my brain because of the URL I mentioned...though I'll have to check it on Tivo when I get home tonight.
> 
> But, wanna see something creepy?
> 
> ...



That is the site that if you book a flight, and check out the seating, clicking the numbers you got a preview for this season.  There are other easter eggs on it too.


----------



## Ambrus (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Rosseau specifically mentioned a complex somewhere on the island....the one where the transmitter is that the others took over.



IIRC she originally said that the transmission tower was next to the black rock. I thought it weird that the people who found the ship didn't also see the tower anywhere nearby. Still the ship is big and they only went into it from one side; maybe the tower was behind the ship and they just couldn't see it from their position. If so I bet they'll feel stupid when they do see it.  

Oh yeah, best line of the show was Hurley's as usual: "Yeah, go back to the burning death hole". That guy cracks me up.


----------



## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> Take a look at:
> 
> http://thelostnumbers1.greatestjournal.com/





Please see post 85.  I had already put that link up. Thanks.


----------



## Arnwyn (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> No big suprise, there.  We've been told and seen a giant power wire from the ocen floor leading up into the jungle.



Oh, I know about that stupid cable (and that's where I've assumed the power came from). But a giant cable out of the ocean is still my "WTF?" point.


----------



## WayneLigon (Sep 22, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> - When I saw the "Quarantine" sign on the inside of the hatch, I'm figuring that the island is the actual "disease" zone (and makes sense, considering the voices and what the French woman said happened to her colleagues).
> 
> - wonder what Desmond is injecting himself with? Something to protect himself from the island?
> 
> ...




It sure looks like it's shaping up that the island was at some point used for Cold War germ warfare research or some kind of biological testing.. something like that. The underground area is probably a 'fallout shelter' in case of an accident in the main labs, in which case it would be stocked like a fallout shelter of the time - there would be enough food for dozens of people to stay down there for three or four years.  It looked like there were lots of beds ni the place he was in, and there likely would be a similar-sized room for women.  So, a fair number of people were expected to be down there. With just one guy, he could last for a good ten years or more, I'd bet. 

Running water? No problem. We've already seen that there are springs on the island. I don't know if you'd cut off contact with those in case of a germ contamination of the surface, but in any case you'd have very large tanks of water and with efficient recycling you could circulate the same water back with very little loss, especially since most water use is non-potable so it doesn't have to undergo as rigorous a processing. I'd assume that would lead to less loss but I don't know. 

Incoming power cable, if there's something out in the ocean (like an atomic sub resting on the bottom?) providing power. Or since we know the island almost has to be volcanic, maybe a geothermal tap. Who knows. I'm thinking more and more that we've seen evidence of either super-science or certainly some extremely innovative tech use already hinted at - the power source could be something outside our experience or some weird offshoot idea that never was practical for commercial use but was perfect for running a small facility. Maybe heat exchange produced from massive compost mounds. SHoot, could be anything at this point.

Why the hangup with smoothies? This is so unusual? People have made things like that for decades before the term 'smoothie' was coined.  Protien powder from stores and some fresh veggies/fruit from a hydroponic garden or trips to the outside so you don't get scurvy. 

So the song on the record player; when was that new? That might help in guessing the last time there were people down there.


----------



## Numion (Sep 22, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Some fearsome creature shaking the trees.  Mysterious others out to get them.  Fear of being separated from the group at large.  Wild boar and who knows what other wild animals out there.




And still the characters have attacks of the stupid and insist on going with few people or alone on missions. Like the girl going after the dog in this episode, and locke and the another having just two people to enter the shaft .. and then jack following them. . alone. 

Pretty st00pid.


----------



## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

Numion said:
			
		

> And still the characters have attacks of the stupid and insist on going with few people or alone on missions. Like the girl going after the dog in this episode, and locke and the another having just two people to enter the shaft .. and then jack following them. . alone.
> 
> Pretty st00pid.




How can we have drama without teh st00pid?????


----------



## Taelorn76 (Sep 22, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> http://www.thefuselage.com/
> The 'moving mist' though seems far beyond any technology we could make, though I had thought at one time it could be some knid of magnetic field moving iron particles at very high speeds. Still requires an astonishing breakhtruogh in technology, though.




When Jack was looking at a wall the key around his neck was being pulled by a magnetic force.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 22, 2005)

Maybe it's Rambaldi smoke...


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> Oh, I know about that stupid cable (and that's where I've assumed the power came from). But a giant cable out of the ocean is still my "WTF?" point.



Possible power line but trans-ocean cables are common but see my post from last season on all plots from Gillian's Isle.  See Submarine Cables: http://www.oceansatlas.org/servlet/...3OC4xNzMyMSY2PWVuJjMzPXdlYi1zaXRlcyYzNz1pbmZv

Love the way Loche seems always get someone else to do the dangerous stuff before him!


----------



## Rel (Sep 22, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> When Jack was looking at a wall the key around his neck was being pulled by a magnetic force.




I was under the impression there was actually a very small Jedi in that box who wanted the key to the gun case.


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 22, 2005)

Numion said:
			
		

> And still the characters have attacks of the stupid and insist on going with few people or alone on missions. Like the girl going after the dog in this episode, and locke and the another having just two people to enter the shaft .. and then jack following them. . alone.
> 
> Pretty st00pid.




I still maintain that Shannon is the most dangerous person on the island.  Every moment she draws breath is another moment closer to oblivion for everyone.  To be fair to her, though, (and I have no idea why I should), her brother's only been dead a day or two.  She hasn't slept in about that long and she's bearing a lot of guilt; couple that with the fact that no one actually likes her except Sayid and her insane feelings about the dog and you get logical teh stoopid.

As for the others, Locke is considered crazy by most, and wandered out alone in the night.  Kate is one of the most capable people about and a loner;  Jack wasn't thinking with the big head.

Frankly, I don't care if they are teh stoopid, as long as they are teh logical.   Most of the islanders still don't know what to believe and running around at night?  Not high on the list.  Especially when the clique is involved, at this point.  They are objects at rest, and unless Jack makes the move, they're staying put.  It's not like Jack's hero complex hasn't kicked in before, nor Locke's bizarre-seeming behavior nor Kate's rugged independence.  The rest of the survivors have seen this before....though some, like Arst, clearly notice it and don't like it.


----------



## Numion (Sep 22, 2005)

Well I think it's illogical to wander alone when you know there are polar bears around. I just think that there is a serious disconnect between the characters actions and what has happened just previously in the series. Polar bears are just one example .. they just seem unfazed by strange events. Like the teacher exploding - that was covered in like one sentence.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I still maintain that Shannon is the most dangerous person on the island.




glad to known I'm not the only one who dislikes her character - aside from the French, she's as smart as a sack of broken hammers and about as useful.

I miss Boone.

I hope they kill more characters next year.


----------



## Fast Learner (Sep 22, 2005)

The song in the bunker _sounded_ like something from The Carpenters (and the lead voice sounded like Karen Carpenter), so that would place it in the early-to-mid 70s. The computer equipment could easily be early 70s or late 60s, so that time frame seems appropriate.


----------



## Arnwyn (Sep 22, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Why the hangup with smoothies? This is so unusual? People have made things like that for decades before the term 'smoothie' was coined.  Protien powder from stores and some fresh veggies/fruit from a hydroponic garden or trips to the outside so you don't get scurvy.



D00d... those weren't criticisms. Just things I found interesting and amusing (eg. lost on some deserted island, and there's a hot shower and available smoothies just a short jaunt away).

No "hangups" here.


----------



## Fast Learner (Sep 22, 2005)

Oh, and there's no reason to believe that Desmond didn't live on the island, then leave it to put things in motion, then come back. Seems perfectly workable.


----------



## Numion (Sep 22, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> The song in the bunker _sounded_ like something from The Carpenters (and the lead voice sounded like Karen Carpenter), so that would place it in the early-to-mid 70s. The computer equipment could easily be early 70s or late 60s, so that time frame seems appropriate.




Look at the two washing machines that are visible in the bunker. They don't look like old models. Even seems like they had small digital displays


----------



## mmu1 (Sep 22, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Oh, and there's no reason to believe that Desmond didn't live on the island, then leave it to put things in motion, then come back. Seems perfectly workable.




So, what, he's this incredible mastermind who managed to engineer the whole thing, but when some of the people he manipulated into being there finally show up, he freaks out and ends up pulling a gun on them?


----------



## mmu1 (Sep 22, 2005)

BTW, I alternately like and am annoyed how the writers use things that are actually really simple but can be misinterpreted easily to build suspense. (especially when they come up in previews of the next episode) 

Like the deal with the shaft of white light that shot out of the hatch, looking like something out of an alien abduction story - until you know there's a mirror down there, and once Jack goes down, can see the large halogen lamp aimed just right to reflect from the mirror and shine straight up...

And speaking of mirrors - considering the amount of time Desmond spends setting them in position to be able to see the hatch, didn't it make you wonder what else he might have had them set up to watch, that was more important than the entrance?


----------



## JoeBlank (Sep 22, 2005)

My apologies if this has been mentioned before, but I am pretty sure I saw it somewhere else and not here:

When Jack's wife-to-be was brought into the ER, and he made the decision to help her insteado of the driver of the SUV she wrecked into, on of the paramedics said "Adam Rutherford, 57, chest trauma, no breath sounds".

Shannon's last name is Rutherford, and her father died when she was a teenager, right?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Sep 22, 2005)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> My apologies if this has been mentioned before, but I am pretty sure I saw it somewhere else and not here:
> 
> When Jack's wife-to-be was brought into the ER, and he made the decision to help her insteado of the driver of the SUV she wrecked into, on of the paramedics said "Adam Rutherford, 57, chest trauma, no breath sounds".
> 
> Shannon's last name is Rutherford, and her father died when she was a teenager, right?



I think so but could not find it     Now did notice that Maggie Grace (Shannon) B-Day was 09/21!


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 22, 2005)

So what is the next episode going to be about?


----------



## WizarDru (Sep 22, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> So what is the next episode going to be about?




About 44 minutes long!  HA!  That one never gets old. 

Seriously?  Jack deals with Desmond, apparently.  It sounds like they're going to get some answers, but how many and how useful is unknown.  I expect we'll also see more on the fate of the boat's survivors.

As for the song, that was none other than "Mama Cass" Elliot, recorded after she left the Mamas and the Papas (you know, "California Dreaming"?).  The song in question is "Make your own kind of music".


----------



## Fast Learner (Sep 22, 2005)

Ah, interesting... ok, I can hear that a Mama Cass, too.

Still a very Carpentery song.


----------



## fett527 (Sep 22, 2005)

So how powerful you think that magnetic field can get?  Powerful enough to rip a plane apart?


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 22, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> About 44 minutes long!




I hope you get eaten by one of those polar bears that is wandering around...
Or that the secret, mysterous, handleless hatch you open with TNT leads to a septic tank...


----------



## Asmo (Sep 22, 2005)

Numion said:
			
		

> And still the characters have attacks of the stupid and insist on going with few people or alone on missions. Like the girl going after the dog in this episode, and locke and the another having just two people to enter the shaft .. and then jack following them. . alone.
> 
> Pretty st00pid.




Never split the party, never ever split the party!!   

Asmo


----------



## KaosDevice (Sep 22, 2005)

Various observations. Danielle's transmission had been running for about 16 years, and was more then likely started not terribly long after they got to the island and Much Badness Happened. That puts that occurance in the late 80's.

Jack was wearing intern togs in the flash back and his marriage, etc seems quite some time ago, let's also say the late 80's (there is probably some visual proof of that in the flash backs I'll have to go back and rewatch it.) So when he met Desmond, and Desmond was discussing a 'race around the world' let's say that was also the late 80's.

My first assertion is that Desmond and and Danielle's crew both arrived at the island probably fairly close together timewise maybe on the same ship. The tower in the complex was broadcasting Hugo's numbers before Danielle changed it and of course the hatch numbers so it seems evident to me that the numbers are important to whatever sort of installation the island actually is.

My second assertion is that all that gear was already down in that shelter when Desmond arrived and he took it over for protection. Sealing himself and quarenting off the island as others have suggested.


----------



## David Howery (Sep 22, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> glad to known I'm not the only one who dislikes her character - aside from the French, she's as useful as a sake of broken hammers and about as useful.
> 
> I miss Boone.
> 
> I hope they kill more characters next year.



but... she's cute!  You can't kill off the eye candy!  Kill off someone ugly.... or a bunch of those nameless of the '42' survivors...


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 23, 2005)

devilbat said:
			
		

> I am so looking forward to finding out what the link is to that dog.  Every time it takes off for a crunch, crazyness ensues.




A recent Q&A with JJ Abrams revealed that he had planned to have a flashback sequence from the dog's point of view at one point (during the finale, presumably) in which we'd see something very telling about the story in the plane's cargo hold. Unfortunately, someone spilled the beans (apparently Kristin from E Online!) and JJ scrapped the story.

He may still tell a story from the dog's POV (at least partly) but he's waiting for an appropriate time to do so.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 23, 2005)

Chaldfont said:
			
		

> There are a lot of Scully Blindspots in Lost. My #1: Why haven't the characters spent more time exploring the island? There could be a Club Med just a few miles away and they wouldn't even know!




Don't forget that Sayid did some exploring in season one on his own, and apparently didn't find a Club Med or a Hedonism on the island. 

Not to mention that every time they've gone off to explore, they usually end up running for their lives from monsters, polar bears, booby traps, or crazy frenchwomen.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 23, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> I dont know if anyone noticed it, but I'm starting to think that "black mist" Is some kind of machine that runs along the ground, and the mist they saw was the exaust.




That wouldn't be a bad idea, though I think they've kind of blown it if they want to go with that, especially after the finale. Seeing Locke being dragged by the mist kind of takes the wind out of that theory. 

Also, how to explain the pilot being dragged out of the plane? Plus, Locke looked up at the monster (or something) in his "first" episode.

This would be a good idea, though.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 23, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> As for the song, that was none other than "Mama Cass" Elliot, recorded after she left the Mamas and the Papas (you know, "California Dreaming"?).  The song in question is "Make your own kind of music".




Nice catch on the song title- my google-fu tells me it was first recorded in 1969. That plus the old school computer should seemingly place the hatch in the 70s, as guessed. 

(BTW, found a good timeline of the Lost events here)

So, putting this together:

Shannon Rutherford's dad married Boone Carlisle's mom in 1992. Presuming that the Rutherford killed in the auto accident is her father, then that places the Jack/Desmond flashbacks during the mid to late 90s.

The two bodies that Jack found in the cave (Adam and Eve) were presumably there since the late 50s/early 60s, and the song on the record wasn't recorded until 1969. Which means that whoever has set up the hatch below ground presumably have been coming and going from the island for a long time, heedless of the survivors of previous accidents. Unless of course, Desmond brought it with him.

Anyone recognize what kind of computer was in the hatch? Obviously old, but it didn't look like an Apple that I could tell. Maybe an early IBM? The cursor looked really odd, too. Not like I remember from those old school apple IIs and all, or even from the old dummy terminals that were in use for a long time.


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 23, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Please see post 85.  I had already put that link up. Thanks.



Did he get your cookie?


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Sep 23, 2005)

> Anyone recognize what kind of computer was in the hatch? Obviously old, but it didn't look like an Apple that I could tell. Maybe an early IBM? The cursor looked really odd, too. Not like I remember from those old school apple IIs and all, or even from the old dummy terminals that were in use for a long time.




The real question is: does he have Oregon Trail on there?


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Sep 23, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> That wouldn't be a bad idea, though I think they've kind of blown it if they want to go with that, especially after the finale. Seeing Locke being dragged by the mist kind of takes the wind out of that theory.
> 
> Also, how to explain the pilot being dragged out of the plane? Plus, Locke looked up at the monster (or something) in his "first" episode.
> 
> This would be a good idea, though.





We DIDNT see him dragged by the mist though. We saw the mist in the trees then we see him grabbed and pulled when the tree gets uprooted. We never actually see whats holding him....


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 23, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> We DIDNT see him dragged by the mist though. We saw the mist in the trees then we see him grabbed and pulled when the tree gets uprooted. We never actually see whats holding him....




Didn't we? I thought for sure there was a long sequence of him being dragged across the ground, with Kate chasing him and the mist pulling him. It's been a while since I've seen that scene, though, so I could be misremembering.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 23, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> The real question is: does he have Oregon Trail on there?




Man- I used to love that game! I'd totally forgotten about it, though!


----------



## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 23, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> The real question is: does he have Oregon Trail on there?



Nah, Sundog. That's why he's been able to stay down there so long just fine.


----------



## devilbat (Sep 23, 2005)

> I hope they kill more characters next year.




One of our local newspapers did a large article on Lost, and it reported that one cast member has been told that their character will die in season two.



> Don't forget that Sayid did some exploring in season one on his own, and apparently didn't find a Club Med or a Hedonism on the island.




But Sayid only got as far as the Power line into the ocean.  There is an awful lot more island to be scene.


----------



## KaosDevice (Sep 23, 2005)

After a really serious rewatch I posted my ideas over here.

Alot of the stuff before the rewatch tag is nothing new to anyone over here, after that is all me and start and stop with a HiDef rewatch.


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## Tarrasque Wrangler (Sep 23, 2005)

*More number fun!*

There were two in a row this episode.

When Desmond injects himself at the beginning, the vial he uses has some kind of serial # that's 4815162342 (there were some dashes in there, but it was all in order).

When Desmond is opening the safe, the last two numbers in the combination are 23 and 42.

Anyone spot more?


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## BrooklynKnight (Sep 23, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Didn't we? I thought for sure there was a long sequence of him being dragged across the ground, with Kate chasing him and the mist pulling him. It's been a while since I've seen that scene, though, so I could be misremembering.




We definatly saw him being dragged along the ground, but think back

Did you EVER see anything actually attached to him? did we ever see the mist physically connected to him..


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## BrooklynKnight (Sep 23, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> We definatly saw him being dragged along the ground, but think back
> 
> Did you EVER see anything actually attached to him? did we ever see the mist physically connected to him..




I just reviewed the scene 5 times, and you CAN just barly make out something black draging him. Its so fast its almost un-noticible.

The mechanical sound was very distinctive during the entire thing however. I still think its a machine, perhaps whatever is dragging him is releasing smoke. Who knows.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 23, 2005)

The computer isn't a personal computer. The early 70's are pre-PC. It would be a mainframe or a mini, which the tapes support.

I don't recognize the prompt from any IBM 370 series or from any DEC stuff, so I suspect that it's just for the show.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 23, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> The computer isn't a personal computer. The early 70's are pre-PC. It would be a mainframe or a mini, which the tapes support.
> 
> I don't recognize the prompt from any IBM 370 series or from any DEC stuff, so I suspect that it's just for the show.



ARC Mini (forget model and maker think NCR) from the late 70s to early 80s - it could use IBM tape drives but also had spinning drives you had to exchange.  You would have a command promote, you entered command and everything ran in the background and would promote you for responses as process was executed.  It was also allowed multi workstations to be attached, this could mean that there are other stations on the island!


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## Steverooo (Sep 23, 2005)

Arnwyn said:
			
		

> - and, again: power? running water? blenders and smoothies?




Solar cells, wind/wave turbines + batteries and inverters = self-renewing electricity.  Turn on the inverters, and you can run a blender, a light, a stereo, a refrigerator/freezer, or whatever else you need (with a bank of inverters, or one really big one).  Eventually, you'll have to rebuild (or otherwise replace) the batteries, but desulphating the plates isn't that hard, and with some metal and a saw, you could always make more, when they wear out.  The other component parts are basically reusable.  In fact, you can make a battery of sea water, pennies, and nickles...

Running water is also no problem.  It rains on the island, every day.  Collect the water in a tank (easy, since you're underground), microfilter it (or distill it and condense the steam, if need be), and store it.  The plumbing's not that hard.

Also, there may be a nuclear power plant providing more than enough energy and waste heat, so that the solar cells or turbines, batteries, and inverters aren't even needed.  There could even be a "farm" of several banks of wave-turbines connected to the end of that cable that Sayid found...

Nothing within the "survival shelter" is beyond the limits of 1970s technology, with a large budget, except the food (sorry, but the shelf-life of food just isn't up to 30 years)!

Of course, all of this presupposes that there are no supplies being delivered, and that there's no "growing rooms" down there that use sunlamps (or somesuch) to grow food, too!


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## fett527 (Sep 23, 2005)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> Did he get your cookie?




Why, did you want it?

I simply get annoyed when people don't read all posts in a thread, especially in a thread like this.


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## Steverooo (Sep 23, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> The song in the bunker _sounded_ like something from The Carpenters (and the lead voice sounded like Karen Carpenter), so that would place it in the early-to-mid 70s. The computer equipment could easily be early 70s or late 60s, so that time frame seems appropriate.




No, no, no, and no!  That most certainly was NOT Karen Carpenter (who I just happen to like, thank you very much!), nor did it even sound like her!  I believe it was Miss (Nancy?) Sinatra, singing "Make Your Own Kind of Music", from the mid-to-late 1960s.  The IBM PC was introduced circa 1982, with only the Heath-kit and Radio Shack's TRS-80 available earlier (maybe a Commodore 64).  IBM Mainframes are another matter...


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Nothing within the "survival shelter" is beyond the limits of 1970s technology, with a large budget, except the food (sorry, but the shelf-life of food just isn't up to 30 years)!




Actually, it can.  From the Master Food Presevers and Safety web site: "_The U.S. Army has found that canned meats, vegetables and jam were in "excellent states of preservation" *after 46 years.* However, long storage is not recommended. For high quality (versus safety), the broadest guideline given by the U.S.D.A. is to use high-acid canned food (fruits, tomatoes and pickled products) in 18 to 24 months, and low-acid (meats and vegetables) in two to five years._"


As for the computer: I don't know what it is _supposed_ to be, but it's clearly an Apple II frame, with some keys relabelled.  Seeing that the Apple II was released in April of 1977, I think we're safe in saying that the  personal computer got it's start in the 70s, my children.  

Kids, these days....


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## Steverooo (Sep 23, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Anyone recognize what kind of computer was in the hatch? Obviously old, but it didn't look like an Apple that I could tell. Maybe an early IBM? The cursor looked really odd, too. Not like I remember from those old school apple IIs and all, or even from the old dummy terminals that were in use for a long time.




Didn't recognize the computer, but the prompt looked like:

>:

Instead of the usual:

C:\>

So, I'm guessing an IBM XT, circa early-to-mid-1980s technology (the screen was really bad, like an XT I used to have).  The prompt is doable with DOS, IIRC.


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## JoeBlank (Sep 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Solar cells, wind/wave turbines + batteries and inverters = self-renewing electricity.  Turn on the inverters, and you can run a blender, a light, a stereo, a refrigerator/freezer, or whatever else you need (with a bank of inverters, or one really big one).  Eventually, you'll have to rebuild (or otherwise replace) the batteries, but desulphating the plates isn't that hard, and with some metal and a saw, you could always make more, when they wear out.  The other component parts are basically reusable.  In fact, you can make a battery of sea water, pennies, and nickles...




And didn't Desmond spend some time on a stationary bike as part of his morning routine? How much electricity could he generate by doing that?

Good points on the food. After the scene my wife and I had the following exchange:

JoeWife: So there's somebody living down in the hatch?
JoeBlank: And he has raw eggs!

What I meant was, he has access to fresh food. Maybe canned food will last for 30+ years, but I'm pretty certain he cracked a couple of raw eggs into his shake.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 23, 2005)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> And didn't Desmond spend some time on a stationary bike as part of his morning routine? How much electricity could he generate by doing that?
> 
> Good points on the food. After the scene my wife and I had the following exchange:
> 
> ...



the computer game Dungeon Keeper: Hen Houses had to be built to feed everyone, he has a hen house somewhere, would not to surprised if he did not have a 'protected' area outside for a garden.


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## Steverooo (Sep 23, 2005)

*Stuffs I missed!*

Shoot!  I can't _believe_ how much stuff I missed, in this episode!  I didn't see the eggs, don't recognize either shot of the computer, didn't see the safe, shotgun, or mirrors!  (I even missed the '77 Apple IIs... ALL of them!... at least until the '80s!)

Man, was I watching another program, or what?  The version I was watching, when Jack goes down into the hole, it's too dark to see much of ANYTHING, except what he shines the light right on...  Not so, for the rest of you???


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## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 23, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> A recent Q&A with JJ Abrams revealed that he had planned to have a flashback sequence from the dog's point of view...




So, we were going to have a scene of drinking water from a toilet bowl and licking its own goolies?

It has occured to me we've not really had a flash back from Shannon, just Boone's perspective on Shannon. Nor have we had a flash back from Rose. Nor have we had a flash back from Walt, just Mike's perspective on his son.

I was watching the scene where Ethan Rom attacks Charlie - after Claire returns - and is holding Charlie up againast the tree. The sclera (the normally white part of the eye) of Rom is blue, in fact a kind of blueness seems to cover his eyes entirely. I wonder what this means. 

Osteogenesis imperfecta causes (among other things) sclera to become blue-gray. Rom was too robust and violent to have that condition, which is more or less the same thing Mr. Glass had in _Unbreakable._ 

Certian steroid use can also cause the sclera to become blue, which does seem possible if not probable for the character Rom. 

And the Dark Side of the force colors eyes amber, so that can also be ruled out.

However, I wonder if in the context of the show, blue eyes is a symptom of "the" disease (the one Rousseau was raving about)? If so, have Claire, Charlie, Jack, Kate, Locke and Sawyer been exposed?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Shoot!  I can't _believe_ how much stuff I missed, in this episode!  I didn't see the eggs, don't recognize either shot of the computer, didn't see the safe, shotgun, or mirrors!  (I even missed the '77 Apple IIs... ALL of them!... at least until the '80s!)
> 
> Man, was I watching another program, or what?  The version I was watching, when Jack goes down into the hole, it's too dark to see much of ANYTHING, except what he shines the light right on...  Not so, for the rest of you???



They showed all that stuff when Desmond starts his day, which looked like any normal persons routine, except for the shot, until the hatch blows...then he opens a weapons locker, goes to the telescope that looks down the tunnels via mirrors.


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Shoot!  I can't _believe_ Man, was I watching another program, or what?  The version I was watching, when Jack goes down into the hole, it's too dark to see much of ANYTHING, except what he shines the light right on...  Not so, for the rest of you???




We saw plenty.  HDTV, dont'cha know. 

As for the Eggs?  I thought those were canned peaches and maraschino cherries.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 23, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> No, no, no, and no!  That most certainly was NOT Karen Carpenter (who I just happen to like, thank you very much!), nor did it even sound like her!  I believe it was Miss (Nancy?) Sinatra, singing "Make Your Own Kind of Music", from the mid-to-late 1960s.



Erm... earlier in the thread we resolved that it was likely the Mama Cass version. And I like Karen Carpenter, too... was I somehow insulting to her? I listened the The Carpenters every day for about two years straight in elementary school.



> The IBM PC was introduced circa 1982, with only the Heath-kit and Radio Shack's TRS-80 available earlier (maybe a Commodore 64).  IBM Mainframes are another matter...



Your microcomputer history is off quite a bit:

* The Altair 8800 was actually the first microcomputer, released (usually as a kit) in 1975, and was also my first micro. 

* The Apple 1 was produced in 1976.

* The Apple II was produced in 1977. 

* The Commodore PET was produced in 1977.

* The Radio Shack TRS-80 was produced in 1977.

* The Commodore VIC-20 was produced in 1980.

* The Commodore 64 was produced in 1982.

But the important thing is THAT'S NOT A MICROCOMPUTER HE"S USING. It's a terminal to a mini or mainframe. Greenscreen terminal like that have been around since the 1960s.

The song places the bunker in about 1970. No personal computers. Really.


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## fett527 (Sep 23, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> ...I was watching the scene where Ethan Rom attacks Charlie - after Claire returns - and is holding Charlie up againast the tree. The sclera (the normally white part of the eye) of Rom is blue, in fact a kind of blueness seems to cover his eyes entirely. I wonder what this means...




He who controls the spice controls the Universe...


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## Fast Learner (Sep 23, 2005)

JoeBlank said:
			
		

> And didn't Desmond spend some time on a stationary bike as part of his morning routine? How much electricity could he generate by doing that?



About enough to run a small lamp while riding on the bike, with little if any left over afterwards.


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> But the important thing is THAT'S NOT A MICROCOMPUTER HE"S USING. It's a terminal to a mini or mainframe. Greenscreen terminal like that have been around since the 1960s.
> 
> The song places the bunker in about 1970. No personal computers. Really.




Not to be pedantic, but no...that places the bunker AFTER 1970...or more specifically, means that someone came to the bunker in that time period.  CDs didn't catch on until 1986.  I have a fairly sizable collection of my sister's LPs sitting in the attic, right now.  

And while that may or may not be intended to be a personal computer, it most certainly is an Apple II frame, as shown in pictures upthread.  That said, being an Apple II hardly prevents it from being used as a terminal connection to any of the miniframes nearby.  Those things near the terminal are tape drives of some sort...and judging by the size and make are late 1960s to mid-1970s technology.  Presumably the other machines are, as well...which would make the Apple II one of the more powerful devices there, believe it or not.  

Of course, one has to make allowances for TV and for budget concerns.  It could be that they just gathered the most 'authentic looking' devices they could, without that much regard to specifics.  However, since the Apple II was the original hobbyists computer, _designed_ to be hacked, modified and expanded....it's quite possible it was being used in some pretty creative ways right there.


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## fett527 (Sep 23, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> ...Of course, one has to make allowances for TV and for budget concerns.  It could be that they just gathered the most 'authentic looking' devices they could, without that much regard to specifics...



I think LOST is different though.  Every little detail matters and I would expect them to be painstakingly accurate.


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I think LOST is different though.  Every little detail matters and I would expect them to be painstakingly accurate.




I tend to agree...in fact, I hope so, but I'm willing to forgive a minor detail when the broad brushstrokes are right and 99% of the audience wouldn't know either way.  The new washer and dryers bothered me, for example, but I let it slide.  I figure it was a subtle product placement, and let it go.  I'd be glad to be proven wrong, though.


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 23, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> I tend to agree...in fact, I hope so, but I'm willing to forgive a minor detail when the broad brushstrokes are right and 99% of the audience wouldn't know either way.  The new washer and dryers bothered me, for example, but I let it slide.  I figure it was a subtle product placement, and let it go.  I'd be glad to be proven wrong, though.




See I think the new washers are there for a reason. They are meant to stand out for those of us who catch and look for things like that. Now I don't mean they are an integral part of the plot, ie. a _whirlpool_ to other side of the island(couldn't resist  ), but there will be a rezelation as to how he got some modern appliances in the bunker.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 23, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> See I think the new washers are there for a reason. They are meant to stand out for those of us who catch and look for things like that. Now I don't mean they are an integral part of the plot, ie. a _whirlpool_ to other side of the island(couldn't resist  ), but there will be a rezelation as to how he got some modern appliances in the bunker.



When did the 'gun' start being used for shots too, that will has timeline on it.  The bad thing, I think you will find jumps in years based on the numbers, washer/dryer 4 years ago, the riding bike 15 years ago, the record...you get my drift.


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## RichCsigs (Sep 23, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> I don't recognize the prompt from any IBM 370 series or from any DEC stuff, so I suspect that it's just for the show.




Actually, I recognized the prompt right away as the emoticon for angry/mean.  I took it as a subtol sign from the creators of the show that the person in the bunker was not a nice person.

And actually, now that I think about it, it also stands for "devil" (the ">" being horns).


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 23, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> When did the 'gun' start being used for shots too, that will has timeline on it.  The bad thing, I think you will find jumps in years based on the numbers, washer/dryer 4 years ago, the riding bike 15 years ago, the record...you get my drift.




Damn I like that. Computer could definately be from circa 1982, 23 years ago.


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## KaosDevice (Sep 23, 2005)

Just as an after thought but the computer could still be an Apple II, but one running a terminal emulator. 

Wasn't that a quartz lock turntable? Did they have those back in the 70's? I didn't think they did.


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Just as an after thought but the computer could still be an Apple II, but one running a terminal emulator.




What, do I stutter?


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## WayneLigon (Sep 23, 2005)

It could also be a hodgepodge of stuff that available on the cheap, like maybe salvaged from previous ship wrecks? Possible, but unlikely.


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## KaosDevice (Sep 23, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> What, do I stutter?





Sorry dude, did I miss that? This thread is getting ginormous.


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## WizarDru (Sep 23, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Sorry dude, did I miss that? This thread is getting ginormous.




Heh.  I kid because I love, mang.


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## MaxKaladin (Sep 23, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> When did the 'gun' start being used for shots too, that will has timeline on it.



I have a vivid memory of them using one when I got immunized as a small child in the early 70s.  It looked more like a phaser from Star Treak (TOS, obviously) and I was terrified because they wanted to use it on me.  

Edit: Actually, I think it was a "Jet Injector" (like a Star Trek Hypospray) because it was the "shot" sound from testing it that set me to running screaming from the room.  In any case, they've had those gun type things for a while...


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## Brown Jenkin (Sep 23, 2005)

One thing I noticed from preview show was a subtle change from the original airing. It seems the exact spanish comic book is either not relevant or there was a copyright blunder by lawyers.  When walt is looking at it with his dad, I noticed the book cover had been blurred out.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 23, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> I simply get annoyed when people don't read all posts in a thread, especially in a thread like this.



You should stop reading threads with hundreds of posts then, because no one but you is religiously reading every post every time and double-checking so that they don't repeat an idea or link that someone else has posted previously.

Message boards are not about credit, they're about discussion. If something comes up again, it's probably because it's especially germaine.


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## Whizbang Dustyboots (Sep 23, 2005)

Brown Jenkin said:
			
		

> One thing I noticed from preview show was a subtle change from the original airing. It seems the exact spanish comic book is either not relevant or there was a copyright blunder by lawyers.  When walt is looking at it with his dad, I noticed the book cover had been blurred out.



I only saw the back cover blurred out, which was an advertisement. "Lost" in Spanish-language markets may well be advertised by a competitor, and the studio likely wanted that sort of problem avoided in future. Is it blurred out in the DVD version too?


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## KaosDevice (Sep 23, 2005)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> You should stop reading threads with hundreds of posts then, because no one but you is religiously reading every post every time and double-checking so that they don't repeat an idea or link that someone else has posted previously.




Case in point, this guy.

<--------



I'm horrible about missing things in long threads.


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## CrusaderX (Sep 24, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Didn't recognize the computer, but the prompt looked like:
> 
> > :




Here ya go.


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## Cthulhudrew (Sep 24, 2005)

Back to the timeline issue, does anyone recall how long Sarah was supposed to have been in recovery before she and Jack got married? Maybe it was mentioned in the finale? Just curious.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 24, 2005)

Sorry, didn't see the second picture (just saw the Apple ][). Yeah, definitely an Apple ][ as a base, with what actually looks quite a bit like a TRS-80 (sans keyboard) above it. 

Yet still, must be a terminal.


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## orbitalfreak (Sep 24, 2005)

A friend and I were watching the HDTV version on my computer earlier today, trying to notice all the "coincidences" and "numbers" occuring.  Going through frame-by-frame, almost, we came to the shower scene, and I paused it to engage in a bit of asshatry; I counted the number of holes in the shower head, pretending like I was looking for a Number connection.

. . . much to my suprise, there were 42 holes in the shower head.

When Desmond is doing his exercises, he does 3 chinups, 5 situps, 8 reps total.

When Jack trips during his run, you see that row 25 seats are shown, but Jack tripped just below that row... on 23.

In the beginning, Hurley is chanting "4 8 15 16 23 42 - 4 8 dead 15 doomed and dead 16 --" and is interrupted by Kate.

Also, notice that there are two beds in the beginning, with Des on the top bunk, and the bottom bunk is clearly in a "used" state.  He then goes to the dining area, and cleans up someone else's breakfast -- breakfast, because of the orange juice on the table.  There is a facedown, open book on the right-hand bench seat, with an open newspaper next to the old breakfast on the left-hand seat.

When you see the record player, pay attention to the entire bookcase and surrounding area.  From left-to-right, you see a sofa, the bookcase with the turntable on the right, and then a wall on the far right.  Later, when the explosion occurs, he glances and we see the scene in reverse, with an opening.  Speculation is that he was looking into one of his ever-present mirrors and we see from his perspective.  

Why do we suspect that "the guy" in the beginning is "Desmond?" When we see the Eye at the beginning of the episode is a lot lighter than that of Desmond at the end of the episode.  At the beginning, "the guy's" fingers are extremely clean, yet only hours later we see Desmond grasp his pistol with very very dirty fingers; strangely, the two people (one person?) have identically unshaven beard growths.

Did you notice the windows in the beginning?  There are at least three -- one behind the bunk beds, one at the dining booth, and another off-camera but clearly shedding light into the living room (just before he turns on the record).

There's also a ping-pong set there -- a game you can't really play alone; the table is set in the middle of the room, with no wall or barrier nearby to play against yourself by.  Also, there's a tennis ball (irrelevant?).


----------



## KaosDevice (Sep 24, 2005)

Man, great observations! The ping pong table is folded in half, the back half forming a backstop, look at it again. As for Des being dirty, several hours have passed since his waking and when they blow the hatch we see dust rain down. Plus we never see Des shaving so, *shrug* on the facial hair one. 

They don't look like windows so much as back lit glass, perhaps timed to provide the illusion of day and night down in shelter 23.  I agree with you about the bunk beds though, there is totally the sense that he isn't alone down there after the last rewatch. We have NO idea how big that shelter is.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 24, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Man, great observations! The ping pong table is folded in half, the back half forming a backstop, look at it again. As for Des being dirty, several hours have passed since his waking and when they blow the hatch we see dust rain down. Plus we never see Des shaving so, *shrug* on the facial hair one.




On the dirty hands thing, also recall that he has encountered one person from outside already (Locke) and quite possibly Kate, and may have somehow gotten dirty during those encounters.

Otherwise, I have to agree- those are some great observations. Especially the bunk bed one.


----------



## KaosDevice (Sep 24, 2005)

For those interested the lyrics to the Cass Elliott song we hear during S2 Ep1 can be found here: http://www.casselliot.com/lyrics.htm. You have to scroll down a tad.


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## Cthulhudrew (Sep 25, 2005)

Something odd I just noticed on the Oceanic Air website. Kate is listed as "Kate Ryan" in the passenger list, though her mugshot shows her name to be "Katherine Dodd." Then she's listed as "Kate Austen" on IMDB. Strange.

Also, maybe I'm just dumb for noticing this only now, but it just struck me that the raft was built by Sawyer. Heh.

One other thing (btw, I mentioned it before, but this site is really awesome for Lost info):

Walt in this episode says something about not pressing the button- what is Jack just about to do before Locke tells him to stop?


----------



## KaosDevice (Sep 25, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Walt in this episode says something about not pressing the button- what is Jack just about to do before Locke tells him to stop?





There are some theories I've read elswhere that the computer has something to do with the security system. That when Des is typing early on in the episode, that is when the attack on Locke occured. Obviously that is open to debate. One sort of nifty thing is that Hurley's numbers are on the vial that Des shoots himself up with and also it is Hurley's numbers that Des types into the keyboard at the start of the ep.

Walt is speaking backwards, he says (if you believe the net), "Don't press the button Shannon, the button is bad."

The current Wiki page has some interesting things to say as well. Check out 'Philosophy', that one I enjoyed.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Sep 25, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Walt is speaking backwards, he says (if you believe the net), "Don't press the button Shannon, the button is bad."




You can decide for yourself here.


----------



## Just_Hal (Sep 25, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> You can decide for yourself here.





Thx for the audio link!


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## Steverooo (Sep 25, 2005)

Okay... so WHY would Walt be drowned and backwards-talking?  Has he gone to the other side of the mirror (or pool), or what?

No sense, making, this is!  Explanations want I!


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## Steverooo (Sep 25, 2005)

*Other Oddities:*

I found it odd that Desmond (or whoever he is) didn't grab a gas mask, if he is worried about plague...  Obviously, he feels the serum he injected protects him...

So he is worried by others breaking into his shelter because why?  Not because he'll be infected...  Are they the test subjects?  Are they the control group?  Were they supposed to remain ignorant of the experiment, and just be good little lab rats?


----------



## Taelorn76 (Sep 25, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Something odd I just noticed on the Oceanic Air website. Kate is listed as "Kate Ryan" in the passenger list, though her mugshot shows her name to be "Katherine Dodd." Then she's listed as "Kate Austen" on IMDB. Strange.
> 
> Also, maybe I'm just dumb for noticing this only now, but it just struck me that the raft was built by Sawyer. Heh.
> 
> ...




I like the Sawyer connection.

Cool site lots of info.   

The only thing on this topic is that Walt told _Shannon_ not to push the button. So maybe she makes it down the hatch or she comes across something else with a button.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Sep 25, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> There are some theories I've read elswhere that the computer has something to do with the security system. That when Des is typing early on in the episode, that is when the attack on Locke occured. Obviously that is open to debate. One sort of nifty thing is that Hurley's numbers are on the vial that Des shoots himself up with and also it is Hurley's numbers that Des types into the keyboard at the start of the ep.
> 
> Walt is speaking backwards, he says (if you believe the net), "Don't press the button Shannon, the button is bad."
> 
> The current Wiki page has some interesting things to say as well. Check out 'Philosophy', that one I enjoyed.




can someone who recordered it watch the scene and tell what keys he pressed?


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## KaosDevice (Sep 25, 2005)

I saw a pretty trippy screen capture of the painting down in the hatch. We see a house on fire and in one corner of the painting an eye then the letter M and the word 'sick'.
"I am sick".


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## CrusaderX (Sep 26, 2005)

Here's the mural.  The 108 is obvious (the sum of the numbers), but I'm sure other clues are there as well.


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## Cthulhudrew (Sep 26, 2005)

There's a 42 in there, the word "sick", stick figures (the survivors?), water (with a large arrow pointing towards it), a sun, fish, a house... can't really make heads or tails of it, sadly. 

[EDIT] Thought about it a bit more... fish, 42, the arrow pointing away, the sun- the message seems to be... "So long and thanks for all the fish?" This guy's been reading Douglas Adams down there!


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## KaosDevice (Sep 26, 2005)

it is High Weirdness. Lost is definately upping the strange factor this season, and honestly it makes me hungry for more.


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## orbitalfreak (Sep 26, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> can someone who recordered it watch the scene and tell what keys he pressed?




You mean the guy in the beginning?  Yea, he presses 
4 space 8 space 1 5 space 1 6 space 2 3 space 4 2 execute
You can watch his fingers, and although you can't see the labels on the keys from the angles he's filmed from, you can see the position of the keys and count off what key he's actually pressing.


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## Steverooo (Sep 26, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> Also, maybe I'm just dumb for noticing this only now, but it just struck me that the raft was built by Sawyer. Heh.




Actually, "Sawyer" built that raft Ford tough!...  (Sawyer, the name he uses, was the name of the Con-man who ruined his family, as a child...  His real name, the Australian police tell us, is John Ford, IIRC).


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## Steverooo (Sep 26, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Here's the mural.  The 108 is obvious (the sum of the numbers), but I'm sure other clues are there as well.




Looks to me like "16" is just below the sun/cog, and to the left...


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## Steverooo (Sep 26, 2005)

The ABC logo (circle around lower case "abc") appears TWICE in the lower right-hand corner...  Once I can understand, but twice is odd...  I see no fish or house (and I understand there is supposed to be an eye, the letter "M", and the word "sick", too, but I don't see them, either).  I do see what look like two hands, one holding a blue thing, the other reaching out, fingers spread...

There are ten stick figures, although eight of them are on the top, one on the light blue thing that I see as a globe, and the last one (just to his left) seems to have his legs broken off, and a little below him...

What the things to the far right are, I can't figure out.  Flourescent light tubes?  Rolled up scrolls?

Isn't subjective art interpretation great?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 26, 2005)

FYI ALL, if you missed it or want to see it again, the Premiere will be on Wednesday at 8 PM (est) prior to this weeks show!


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## Taelorn76 (Sep 26, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Looks to me like "16" is just below the sun/cog, and to the left...




If you look closer right beneath the sun that number is "108". If you follow the zero from the 108 in the sun straight down you can see an "8". Also in the big blue arrow towards the bottom just above the light source you can see the number 15


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## fett527 (Sep 26, 2005)

Whizbang Dustyboots said:
			
		

> You should stop reading threads with hundreds of posts then, because no one but you is religiously reading every post every time and double-checking so that they don't repeat an idea or link that someone else has posted previously.
> 
> Message boards are not about credit, they're about discussion. If something comes up again, it's probably because it's especially germaine.




It's not about credit.  And I don't believe I'm the only one who reads every post in a thread no matter how long it is.  If I find a topic I think is interesting but has too many posts to catch up I just don't get into it or I skim it and don't post.  In a discussion thread like this I absolutely want to read every post because I want to see what other's have found out and observed.  If someone doesn't and they post redundant or identical information it is annoying.


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## Cthulhudrew (Sep 26, 2005)

Double post. Ooopsy!


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## Cthulhudrew (Sep 26, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> The ABC logo (circle around lower case "abc") appears TWICE in the lower right-hand corner...  Once I can understand, but twice is odd...  I see no fish or house (and I understand there is supposed to be an eye, the letter "M", and the word "sick", too, but I don't see them, either).  I do see what look like two hands, one holding a blue thing, the other reaching out, fingers spread...




There are two houses, actually- one in the lower left corner, and one next to the arrow. The eye is next to a fish next to the second house (all three are below the 42). The M and Sick are next to the eye (all in the lower right corner).

That one 108 does look like a 16 (that's what I thought it was at first too), but closer examination reveals that the part at the top of the 0 that makes it look like a 6 is actually just one of the rays of light from the sun. 

There are a couple of fish below the sun in the left corner as well.

As you say, though, art is subjective, so these symbols/objects could possibly look different to different people, or have some other meaning.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 27, 2005)

So, has anyone seen a timeline of the year minus the numbers to see what events took place? 108 = 1897, 48 = 1957, 23 = 1982, etc?


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 27, 2005)

1897 - Two events stick out: 
1) Mark Twain, responding to rumors that he was dead, is quoted by the New York Journal as saying, "The report of my death was an exaggeration." 

2) First use of the word computer meaning an electronic calculation device.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 27, 2005)

1957 items that caught my notice...

1) The International Atomic Energy Agency is established. 

2) Sputnik program: The Soviet Union launches Sputnik I, the first artificial satellite to orbit the earth.  Sputnik program: The Soviet Union launches Sputnik 2. On board is the first animal to enter space - a dog named Laika (she was kept alive for several days in space with a sophisticated life-support system). 

3) First US attempt to launch a satellite fails, blowing up on the launchpad.


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 27, 2005)

1982 this is getting interesting! 

1) January 13 - Shortly after takeoff, Air Florida Flight 90 crashes into Washington, DC's 14th Street Bridge and falls into the Potomac River, killing 78. Half an hour later, a Washington Metro train derails, killing 3. It is the system's first fatal accident. 

2) March 10 - Syzygy: all 9 planets align on the same side of the Sun. 

3) The Weather Channel airs on cable television for the first time. 

4) December 7 - First US execution by lethal injection is carried out in Texas.


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## Crothian (Sep 27, 2005)

Why are you assuming to minus them from 2005?  the show started in 2004


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 27, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Why are you assuming to minus them from 2005?  the show started in 2004



oops 

but...


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## The Grumpy Celt (Sep 27, 2005)

I think Flight 815 was captured by the Cylon's and the surivors are being kept in a zoo.


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## Fast Learner (Sep 27, 2005)

Re: the above year calculations, note that the final number is 42, not 48, making it more like 1962.

(Not that I think it means anything, but y'know, if we're poking holes, I wanna join in! I love poking!)


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## Hand of Evil (Sep 27, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Re: the above year calculations, note that the final number is 42, not 48, making it more like 1962.
> 
> (Not that I think it means anything, but y'know, if we're poking holes, I wanna join in! I love poking!)



I just find all this interesting: 

1962
For the first time in 400 years Neptune and Pluto align

Film actress and sex icon, Marilyn Monroe is found dead in her Los Angeles, California home after apparently overdosing on sleeping pills

The Canadian Alouette 1, the first satellite built outside the United States and Soviet Union, is launched from Vandenberg AFB in California

Second Vatican Council: Pope John XXIII convenes the first ecumenical council of the Roman Catholic Church in 92 years

Cuban Missile Crisis begins: A U-2 flight over Cuba takes photos of Soviet nuclear weapons being installed. A stand-off then ensues the next day between the United States and the Soviet Union, putting the entire world under threat of a nuclear war

US spacecraft Mariner 2 flies by Venus, becoming the first probe to successfully transmit data from another planet


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