# Of the WotC Forums and the OTT



## PigKnight

Well, the Wizards of the Coast changed their forum site into a horrible thing that isn't even a forum anymore. Theoretically the "OTTers" (posters from the off-topic section) should be migrating here after the cluster fluff that is the new WotC "forum" caused them to leave. I've lurked here a bit and this seems to be the best match. You En Worlders can either ignore this, say "Yo dawg wat up?", or troll us to hell and back.


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## Cyclone_Joker

Hi, PK.

Apparently they scrubbed every mention of migration, so I don't know who else will even be coming, beyond RL and probably Goldo.


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## Morrus

Well, you're welcome, of course.  We love meeting new people.  They're tasty!


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## PigKnight

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Hi, PK.
> 
> Apparently they scrubbed every mention of migration, so I don't know who else will even be coming, beyond RL and probably Goldo.




But I need Escher and Hoodzie.



Morrus said:


> Well, you're welcome, of course. We love meeting new people. They're tasty!



I am a pork product.


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## tomBitonti

Wait ... do you mean this:

http://community.wizards.com/forums/61981

Those aren't being used anymore?  Is there some information about their off-topic forum which I'm not seeing?

Thx!

TomB


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## PigKnight

tomBitonti said:


> Wait ... do you mean this:
> 
> [snip]
> 
> Those aren't being used anymore?  Is there some information about their off-topic forum which I'm not seeing?
> 
> Thx!
> 
> 
> TomB




More of the color scheme literally hurts my eyes, it moves slowly, it's glitchy as hell, and in the cross over to the new site a lot of account were deactivated or unaccessable for no reason and WotC straight up doesn't care and makes anything that talks about it go poof.


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## Cyclone_Joker

We're leaving partially because the forum itself is basically unusable, and partially because most of us have had our accounts just shut down. No notice, no violated-by-CoC email, just completely shut down. And then anyone who talks about people being shut down gets shut down and all posts scrubbed, it's just crazy.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok

Essentially. All threads (apparently even individual posts) containing complaints are deleted, my account is no longer accessible, the interim sockpuppet I put together upon realizing that is no longer accessible, and it's outright painful to look at. Screw WotC.


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## darjr

The magic story boards are probably going to migrate somewhere I think they just need to decide where.


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## PigKnight

Have them move over here.

All the cool kids are coming here.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok

Because half the cool kids can't log on without making a new account anyway, and all of them like to be able to see.


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## Olgar Shiverstone

Yo dawg, wat up?

All the cool kids knew to come here -- much more civil discussions provided people abide by the EN World norms.  It's been many years since I've given the WotC Boards more than a passing nod.


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## Cyclone_Joker

It seems someone is calling out WotC in the ComBiz section, if any OTTers want to take a look.

I'd link it, but it seems I am unable to for another few posts.


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## PigKnight

DirtyFrank was asking about how to change the color and they poofed him. I made a thread, I hope they see my message.

EDIT: They poofed the really cryptic message.


Spoiler: If you're Curious



Not much time. They are coming. If you have an OTTer's email tell them to go to En World. We are in the Lounge or whatever they call it; there is safety there. If you have an OTTer's email, email this to them.It is not safe here.

They are coming. They are behind you.

Run.





EDIT: Is there a spoiler hide box thingy option? I can't seem to find one.


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## tuxgeo

PigKnight said:


> EDIT: Is there a spoiler hide box thingy option? I can't seem to find one.




Um: EN World uses "BB code" -- in which the spoiler option is the "sblock" option. (To use: put the quoted word in square brackets (without the quotation marks) at the beginning of the spoiler; then do the same at the end, except you prepend a forward-slash ("/") immediately before the "s.")

Let me spoil the word "smawrbre" as an example: [sblock]smawrbre[/sblock]


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## Mark CMG

Welcome.  Keep Calm and Game On!


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## Cyclone_Joker

Keep calm? Why would you ever want to keep calm when insulting and denigrating those who you disagree with on minor and meaningless matters? That, like, takes the whole fun out of it! Next you'll be telling us to bleed and cook the humans we ritualistically slaughter in Pelor's name before consuming them or something.


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## Dioltach

I moved here after I got fed up with the WotC boards way back in 2002, I think it was. Hey, I was a cool kid before it was cool to be a cool kid!


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## Lindeloef

Welcome to EnWorld you guys.

I saw that abomination that WotC now calls their forum, I don't understand how anyone thought that this would be an improvement to the design they had before...


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## the Jester

Welcome aboard, folks! I hope you guys like it here!


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## Kramodlog

Well this sucks. I have to make a new account to be able to post in OTT. I finally managed to make a new group and now I can't access it. WotC's forum fail is ridiculus. I wonder how long it will last.


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## tomBitonti

Ah,

See what you mean about the color selection.  Too much contrast between the title bars and the background.  Blue-ish text set on black (in the titles) which is hard to read.  The placement of very large icons for posters in column four (4) is both a waste of space as well as visually jarring.

Ah, forums have problems, too.  Deep red for thread titles?

The site seems to be close to being alright, but the colors are just awful.

Thx!

TomB


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## PigKnight

tomBitonti said:


> Ah,
> 
> See what you mean about the color selection.  Too much contrast between the title bars and the background.  Blue-ish text set on black (in the titles) which is hard to read.  The placement of very large icons for posters in column four (4) is both a waste of space as well as visually jarring.
> 
> Ah, forums have problems, too.  Deep red for thread titles?
> 
> The site seems to be close to being alright, but the colors are just awful.
> 
> Thx!
> 
> TomB



The bright white background litterally hurts my eyes. This site has a whitish background but it's not Edward Culln sparkly white.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> Well this sucks. I have to make a new account to be able to post in OTT. I finally managed to make a new group and now I can't access it. WotC's forum fail is ridiculus. I wonder how long it will last.



Yeah, I lost access to my main account, regained access to the accounts that had been perm-banned, kept access to alt accounts, then I lost all access to all accounts. The new WoTC forums are terrible.


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## darjr

PigKnight said:


> The bright white background litterally hurts my eyes. This site has a whitish background but it's not Edward Culln sparkly white.




Try the --legacy them at the menu at the bottom of the page. It probably says --reborn for you now.

edit: Oh! Ninja'd by Morrus at the notice at the top of the page.


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## ragnarokio

hi PK i am your fiance do you remember me

Miss Bun is making a new forum right now and the intention of that is to house any community from the old forums and to try and accomodate all of their needs. KeeperofManyNames of what i imagine are the magic story boards says that he wants to move to Miss Bun's site and that another influential member wants to move to MTG Salvation. Right now the MTG side of things probably has a lot more representation than any of the DnD communities so it is understandable if you do not want to get involved (it is also a splinter community and is thus already dead) but if you do want to get involved then it would be good to get some people from the DnD side to represent themselves in the discussion.

this is the email of the person making the site she is asking people to email her a lot: gameostatis at gmail dot com

there is also a thread in magic the gathering YmtC forums where people are talking about it i was going to link it but i can not outsmart enworld's mighty link filtering your spambot domination is admirable

also is thesilversword anywhere he is my most special slippery friend

PS: i am sorry enworld friends i dodged your no posting links for new people filter please forgive me


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## Zombie_Babies

Well I'm here now.  ZB and his 35k+ posts got killed off for reasons that were not explained.  My sock is still alive but I can't PM anyone to tell them who I am.  It also looks like they killed the OTTer group.  I think I'll try to PM Trevor just to tell him how much he sucks for this.  Lame.

EDIT: Busy at work trainin' peeps and this is what I get.  Awesome.


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## PigKnight

1: I didn't know I had a fiance. No more Vegas for me.

2: Well that leaves Silver, Hoodzie, and Frank unaccounted for.


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## Zombie_Babies

Wow that new site is terrible.  I also can't express how angry I am that they used this 'remodel' partially as a cover to prune undesirables.


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## ragnarokio

PigKnight said:


> 1: I didn't know I had a fiance. No more Vegas for me.




it is okay to go to vegas i am canadian


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## Zombie_Babies

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Yeah, I lost access to my main account, regained access to the accounts that had been perm-banned, kept access to alt accounts, then I lost all access to all accounts. The new WoTC forums are terrible.




They killed ZB, man.  _ZB!!_  36k or whatever posts gone.  I can't wait til they get PMs working.  Trevor is gonna get an eyeful - not that he'll care.


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## PigKnight

I had 50k at one point. Ah, the glorious Edition War.


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## Zombie_Babies

It's so, so lame.  Er ... _someone _... had this to say about it:

White Doom 2.0.  Bring Gleemax back - that cluster was better managed.


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## PigKnight

I liked Gleemax. It was my first forum so I didn't know any better, but I liked it.


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## ragnarokio

gleemax was maybe my second forum i went to YmtC there were mana symbols denoting how active a thread was and that was aesthetically appealing

they changed it a few weeks after i joined though


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## Cyclone_Joker

ragnarokio said:


> hi PK i am your fiance do you remember me



Uh... I can't speak for PK, but I thought the rule was that it didn't count if it was in Vegas.


> Miss Bun is making a new forum right now and the intention of that is to house any community from the old forums and to try and accomodate all of their needs. KeeperofManyNames of what i imagine are the magic story boards says that he wants to move to Miss Bun's site and that another influential member wants to move to MTG Salvation. Right now the MTG side of things probably has a lot more representation than any of the DnD communities so it is understandable if you do not want to get involved (it is also a splinter community and is thus already dead) but if you do want to get involved then it would be good to get some people from the DnD side to represent themselves in the discussion.



That would be a great idea, except all of the guys here have been very thoroughly banned.


> this is the email of the person making the site she is asking people to email her a lot: gameostatis at gmail dot com



Good to know. Thanks for the link!


> also is thesilversword anywhere he is my most special slippery friend



I think he got the links before the rout, but I can't guarantee it.

Also, PK, Draco is still unaccounted for, as well as Calron and Micha, at the very least.


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## ragnarokio

yeah i learned about the banning bit after 

wizards is spilling spaghetti all over the place


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## Kramodlog

Zombie_Babies said:


> They killed ZB, man.  _ZB!!_  36k or whatever posts gone.  I can't wait til they get PMs working.  Trevor is gonna get an eyeful - not that he'll care.



I'm not so sure the accounts are doom. they still have the usual pics instead of the default avvy. 

It remains to be seen if it was a purge and not the usual WotC/OneSite-now-SocialCore incompetence. But if it is a purge, I'll troll like I never trolled before.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok

goldomark said:


> I'm not so sure the accounts are doom. they still have the usual pics instead of the default avvy.
> 
> It remains to be seen if it was a purge and not the usual WotC/OneSite-now-SocialCore incompetence. But if it is a purge, I'll troll like I never trolled before.



No matter how unlikely it is, part of my mind is convinced it was an intentional purge. Names I know from elsewhere on the forums are still posting without a problem (besides the terrible new forum, that is). But every OTTer who's made contact since the Change? Bam. Permabanned.


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## Kramodlog

Interresting. I posted with my manbearpig_affleck account in two threads of the OTT. With Chrome I can't see the posts.


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## ragnarokio

nobody i know outside off the off topic tavern has been banned or complained about anybody being banned


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## PigKnight

The ORCs never really liked us. I got banned once. Me. I never do anything ban worthy. I'm the nice guy. I'm Ma-Ti.


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## ragnarokio

i got banned once i liked the rabblerousing atmosphere that the tavern had


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## Kramodlog

Ragnar_Lodbrok said:


> No matter how unlikely it is, part of my mind is convinced it was an intentional purge. Names I know from elsewhere on the forums are still posting without a problem (besides the terrible new forum, that is). But every OTTer who's made contact since the Change? Bam. Permabanned.



Who knows. When Trevor announced the switch around the 5th, posters asked questions and he and the Money answered them all. Except mine. They were not trolly or impolite. Someone even asked why they were ignoring me, but didn't answer him.


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## Mark CMG

Cyclone_Joker said:


> (. . .) bleed and cook the humans we ritualistically slaughter in Pelor's name before consuming them





That's the spirit!


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## Zombie_Babies

goldomark said:


> I'm not so sure the accounts are doom. they still have the usual pics instead of the default avvy.
> 
> It remains to be seen if it was a purge and not the usual WotC/OneSite-now-SocialCore incompetence. But if it is a purge, I'll troll like I never trolled before.




They sent me an email telling me my ZB account was terminated cuz of undisclosed ToS violations.  I don't think ZB will be back.  If not, well, he has a friend who isn't happy about it.

EDIT: Also, I sorta created this account quick-like.  I get an email any time someone responds.  Like, don't default set email notification to 'on', doods.  That's totes lame.  Anyhoo, I think I've got my settings worked out now to stop that nonsense.


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## PigKnight

They cited a ToS that said that they can ban me for any reason they deem. Seems legit.


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## Umbran

Folks, 

Let's have a moratorium on discussion of how much you're going to troll WotC, please and thank you.  We're happy that folks have decided to come here to talk, but bashing on WotC should not be the passtime _du jour_, okay?  Thanks.


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## Klirshon

They did the same with my account. Finally I have joined the rest of the OTTers that have been suspended and banned. It's also hilarious that goldomark (infidel_dog) had his post removed from the OTT that linked to this thread. 

Perhaps now I should make a sock puppet like many had before. Also trappedslider is back with a troll face avatar. Couldn't locate his post in the community business section since the forum is wack.

{Also I have no intention of trolling WotC for this matter. In due time they will crumble before the might of machine society.}


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

Zombie_Babies said:


> They killed ZB, man.  _ZB!!_  36k or whatever posts gone.  I can't wait til they get PMs working.  Trevor is gonna get an eyeful - not that he'll care.



I know. I lost 22K+ posts. I was actually able to sign on at first, then all of the sudden I got logged out. Tried to log back in and it was pointless. I couldn't log in. I kept on getting redirected to the homepage. Then I saw that dannyalcatraz has mentioned he had to request a new password, so I tried the same thing and I got a message that my account had been deactivated due to a CoC violation. I haven't posted anything in about a week or two since I've been sick and I didn't feel like having all my posts deleted after their announcement. I've been emailing customer service, but they are giving me the typical BS "clear you cookies or try another browser." I think I finally managed to get them to uderstand that there are accounts that are being closed or whatever. I got this as a reply from them:


> Hello,
> 
> Thank you for contacting Wizards Customer Service. I have verified your account and have forwarded your request to the appropriate team to look into your account. They will be in contact with you as soon as they can.
> 
> Please let us know if you ever have any further questions or concerns. You can reply to this email or you can call us at the phone number listed below during business hours. We’ll be happy to help as best we can.
> 
> We would appreciate your feedback on the service we are providing you.
> 
> To login to your account, or update your question please
> 
> Jacob
> Online Response Crew


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## Cyclone_Joker

Mark CMG said:


> That's the spirit!



I know! It's good clean family fun to cut the still-beating hearts out of infidels and offer them to The Unconqu-I mean, Pelor. But bleeding and cooking human corpses? That's just uncool, man. That's nasty, and totally not okay to show to kids.


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## PigKnight

Well, as our new nfinitely nicer mod mentioned, let's not dwell on the past and look into the glorious future on these boards.

P.S. Where would I shoot ideas for a tabletop game I'm planning on working on? The general RPGs and Tabletop discussion?


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## Umbran

PigKnight said:


> P.S. Where would I shoot ideas for a tabletop game I'm planning on working on? The general RPGs and Tabletop discussion?




If you're talking about designing your own game system from the ground up, yes, RPGs and Tabletop

If you're talking about a campaign in a system that already exists, then either RPGs & Tabletop, or the D&D & Pathfinder forum, as appropriate.


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## PigKnight

Umbran said:


> If you're talking about designing your own game system from the ground up, yes, RPGs and Tabletop
> 
> If you're talking about a campaign in a system that already exists, then either RPGs & Tabletop, or the D&D & Pathfinder forum, as appropriate.



Ground up. Thanks. I like this guy.


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## Kramodlog

I didn'T get any email, as usual. I wonder how they made their selection. PK wasn't in the group and didn't post regularly in the OTT anymore. This is so much BS.

I'll try the email to CS approach, just in case. Lol.


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## Kramodlog

Interresting. I can see the Religion of Peace Megathread in the group. Without being logged in.

Can you guys see it?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> Interresting. I can see the Religion of Peace Megathread in the group. Without being logged in.
> 
> Can you guys see it?



Can you provide a link?


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## calronmoonflower

Wow, I've never even had a ban before and it took them over 24 hours to tell me  why I couldn't access my account.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

What excuse did they give you?


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## calronmoonflower

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> What excuse did they give you?



Here's what I got.







> The Wizards.com account associated with this email address has been terminated for violation of the Code of Conduct and/or the Terms of Use. Per section 12.c. of the Terms of Use: Wizards reserves the right, without notice and in its sole discretion, to terminate your license to use the Site and to block or prevent your future access to and use of the Site.


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## jonesy

---


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## Kramodlog

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Can you provide a link?



I could, but ENWolrd won't let me until I have more posts.


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## Kramodlog

calronmoonflower said:


> Here's what I got.



Real professionals. Banning anyone who was in the group or posted in OTT without investigating, cause they must a trolls.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

calronmoonflower said:


> Here's what I got.



Well that explains everything.


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## jonesy

goldomark said:


> I could, but ENWolrd won't let me until I have more posts.



The limit is just 10 posts, I think.


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## Kramodlog

Well two to go.


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## Kramodlog

Here I am... But I can't find the thread. Doesn't matter anyway. 

HS, CS answered you yet?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

No, I'm still waiting. I doubt they will actually reactivate my account.


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## Kramodlog

Yup. Seems we've been purged.

I've erased all my history on chrome. That usually lets me bybass the limited number of free articles I can read on online newspapers. Maybe it will let me stealth their sensors. I'm doing that and creating an alt account. I'll aimed for the Rec Room instead of OTT. See if I survive an hour.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> No, I'm still waiting. I doubt they will actually reactivate my account.



At this point, I've stopped caring. This place looks to be much better in general.


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## Kramodlog

Well I'd like to stop receiving emails when someone writes in this thread, but it seems that this is borked.

Switching from one lame place to another, yeah! /sigh


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## PigKnight

I think you can unsub from threads to stop that.

EDIT: Go to settings and one of them will keep you from subscribing to threads.


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## Kramodlog

I did. I still get emails.


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## PigKnight

Settings -> General Settings -> Messaging and Notification -> Default Thread Subscription mode. I think you'll still have to unsub the htreads you're already subbed to.


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## Morrus

goldomark said:


> Switching from one lame place to another, yeah!




Dude, we're trying to welcome you.  Don't make this difficult for us.  Wheaton's Law applies.


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## Zombie_Babies

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I know. I lost 22K+ posts. I was actually able to sign on at first, then all of the sudden I got logged out. Tried to log back in and it was pointless. I couldn't log in. I kept on getting redirected to the homepage. Then I saw that dannyalcatraz has mentioned he had to request a new password, so I tried the same thing and I got a message that my account had been deactivated due to a CoC violation. I haven't posted anything in about a week or two since I've been sick and I didn't feel like having all my posts deleted after their announcement. I've been emailing customer service, but they are giving me the typical BS "clear you cookies or try another browser." I think I finally managed to get them to uderstand that there are accounts that are being closed or whatever. I got this as a reply from them:




I don't think they'll let me back.  The email I got actually used the word 'terminated'.  Like I said, they only say it's cuz of some ToS violation that they don't describe.  I hadn't posted in a week or whatever so I have no idea what happened.


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## Zombie_Babies

goldomark said:


> Well I'd like to stop receiving emails when someone writes in this thread, but it seems that this is borked.
> 
> Switching from one lame place to another, yeah! /sigh




I got it to stop.  Unsubscribe seems to have done the job.  I agree it's sorta lame to default to on but whatever - it's a minor annoyance compared to what WotC did.


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## Ragnar_Lodbrok

Zombie_Babies said:


> I don't think they'll let me back.  The email I got actually used the word 'terminated'.  Like I said, they only say it's cuz of some ToS violation that they don't describe.  I hadn't posted in a week or whatever so I have no idea what happened.



I got the same e-mail. With my moderation history there, I'm not sure they had or wanted a reason.


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## Kramodlog

Morrus said:


> Dude, we're trying to welcome you.  Don't make this difficult for us.  Wheaton's Law applies.



Will Wheaton!? Ewww. Please, do not make the transition more difficult than it needs to be.


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## Kramodlog

Ragnar_Lodbrok said:


> I got the same e-mail. With my moderation history there, I'm not sure they had or wanted a reason.



Yeah, my guess is you just needed to be associated with OTT to get the boot. What did Piggles and Klirshy ever do? 

The ironic part is that TS probably got booted too.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel

Zombie_Babies said:


> I don't think they'll let me back.  The email I got actually used the word 'terminated'.  Like I said, they only say it's cuz of some ToS violation that they don't describe.  I hadn't posted in a week or whatever so I have no idea what happened.



Yeah, I hadn't posted in a while either. I still haven't received a response since the last time. I don't expect them to respond. Chances are they will just tell me they terminated my account as well.


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## Cyclone_Joker

calronmoonflower said:


> Here's what I got.



Yep. I think that's what everyone got.


Ragnar_Lodbrok said:


> At this point, I've stopped caring. This place looks to be much better in general.



I wholeheartedly agree. That said, I'm still keeping an eye on the exodus thread in YMTC. This place is cool, but it doesn't have the same feel as the Cave.

Has anyone been able to contact Hoodsie or Draco?


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## Kramodlog

I had no idea they hated us that much.


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## Kramodlog

They do have a number i your account is banned and you wanna phone them: *(800) 324-6496. 

As for our lost comrads, I'll make accounts and post a link to this thread in OTT. Hopefully they will see it for the time the account will remain up. *


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## Vyvyan Basterd

Have you guys checked out EnWorld's sister site Circvs Maximvs? From what I've seen of the site it might be more to your taste.


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## Plane Sailing

Hi chaps, great to see you here at ENworld.

I did a minor edit to your post to turn red text into bold text, because we reserve red text for moderator warnings on the site. Not a big deal though.

Cheers


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## trappedslider

goldomark said:


> The ironic part is that TS probably got booted too.



I just have a supposedly temp ban...


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## Umbran

goldomark said:


> Will Wheaton!? Ewww. Please, do not make the transition more difficult than it needs to be.




Sorry, dude, but Wheaton's Law is the most succinct statement of our basic operating principles ever devised.   Whether you like him or not, the law is useful.



goldomark said:


> I had no idea they hated us that much.




Do not ascribe to malice what can be explained by the normal cumbersomeness of managing a major transition for thousands of users.

Which is to say, things are probably more complicated on their side than you imagine, which may lead them to take actions of convenience that you don't find personally fair, but which seem like reasonable to them from a business standpoint.


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## Cyclone_Joker

trappedslider said:


> I just have a supposedly temp ban...



Did you really follow us here?


Umbran said:


> Do not ascribe to malice what can be explained by the normal cumbersomeness of managing a major transition for thousands of users.



Uh, sorry, but I'm calling shenanigans. Every single OTTer was banned. Anyone who questioned the OTTers' bans were banned and their posts deleted. Now it seems that most people at the Exodus thread in YMTC was banned. Yet, despite that, most other people are accessing the web page just fine. It's just too specific.


> Which is to say, things are probably more complicated on their side than you imagine, which may lead them to take actions of convenience that you don't find personally fair, but which seem like reasonable to them from a business standpoint.



Have you dealt with WotC's customer disservice recently? Malice does seem to be the most reasonable explanation here.


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## trappedslider

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Did you really follow us here?



<dt style="margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px; padding: 0px; float: left; min-width: 60px; color: rgb(62, 62, 62); font-size: 11px; line-height: 13px; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); width: auto !important;">Join Date</dt><dd style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 3px; color: rgb(62, 62, 62); font-size: 11px; line-height: 13px; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248);">Jun 2006

Hard to follow when i joined back in 06</dd>


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## Cyclone_Joker

Posts: 2
Now how many posts do you have in this thread? Oh, yeah... Hey, funny how that works.

I do believe my point stands.


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## Kramodlog

Now now, play nice guys. This place is new, they aren't prepared for our awesomenss and it seems the mods here take their role too seriously.


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## Kramodlog

Umbran said:


> Sorry, dude, but Wheaton's Law is the most succinct statement of our basic operating principles ever devised.   Whether you like him or not, the law is useful.



Whether you like it or not, I'm still entitled to my opinion, champ. Will Wheaton is overrated.


----------



## tuxgeo

goldomark said:


> Whether you like it or not, I'm still entitled to my opinion, champ. *Will Wheaton is overrated.*




(emphasis added)

Frankly -- yeah, he might be quite a bit overrated. _However_, that's entirely beside the point: 

The point is not, "It's good advice because Wheaton said so." Instead, the point is, "Wheaton said so because it's good advice." (You see? The causality is exactly the other way around.) 

The mods are reminding all readers of the thread that, for those who follow Wheaton's Law, posting on EN World will be as enjoyable as they make it -- because it really can be difficult to run afoul of the EN World posting guidelines while following Wheaton's Law.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

HOODSIE IN DA HIZZOUSE!


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

So what's up fellers?
Can we alternatively post here?
Do we have an OTT group?
I have this picture of a cool shirt I wanna show my OTTers!


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

OK... so how do I add my sigs and upload an avatar?


----------



## PigKnight

YOU'RE ALIVE!

I was gonna play a ton of Memoir '44 on Steam to find you. This is a lot easier.

P.S. Settings -> My Profile -> Edit (Avatar/Signature)


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Robin Hoodlum said:


> HOODSIE IN DA HIZZOUSE!



Hoodsie! You're alive! All that's missing is CHIA and Micha.

So I've gotten an update on the WotC refugee forums. Just to tally, who'd be interested, and what would be needed for you to care?(I hope this isn't considered harvesting. It's not the intent, it seems relevant, and if you do think it's poaching or whatever, I'll happily remove it)


----------



## PigKnight

I thought En world was gonna be our refugee forum?


----------



## Ragnar_Lodbrok

I can afford to add yet another forum to my stable.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Some people in YMTC were pissed at the forum, questioned some choices, were promptly banned, and now they and some others in that section are talking about making a dedicated forum. And it seems like they'd fit the feel the cave had better. 

Not that ENWorld is a bad forum, I certainly like it and plan to stick around the D&D sections at the very least, but it hardly seems like the Tavern, you know?


----------



## PigKnight

The lounge seems like the Tavern. At least the Off Topic Tavern. Maybe not so much the group Tavern, but the group Tavern had little in the way of moderation. In case anyone was wondering, I pretty much read and lurked the group tavern but never really posted their because I was busy last semester.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Dude, when TS and MrM weren't around the OTT didn't have much moderation either. But that's not the thing. It's a culture thing.


----------



## Kramodlog

tuxgeo said:


> (emphasis added)
> 
> Frankly -- yeah, he might be quite a bit overrated. _However_, that's entirely beside the point:
> 
> The point is not, "It's good advice because Wheaton said so." Instead, the point is, "Wheaton said so because it's good advice." (You see? The causality is exactly the other way around.)
> 
> The mods are reminding all readers of the thread that, for those who follow Wheaton's Law, posting on EN World will be as enjoyable as they make it -- because it really can be difficult to run afoul of the EN World posting guidelines while following Wheaton's Law.



Please, what ever he says doesn't change the fact that he is lame and overrated. There are enough animes and games for the fanboys and sycophants of the internet, no need to add Wheaton to the lot. It is just bad taste.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Agreed.
It certainly is a culture thing.
Even though we fight like family, I firmly believe we also love each other like family.

So what's this?
Are we OTTers going to a different forums or something?
Somebody needs to keep me posted about these things!


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

And I agree with goldo.
Wheaton IS overrated.


----------



## Kramodlog

Robin Hoodlum said:


> HOODSIE IN DA HIZZOUSE!



Welcome!

You saw one of my posts in OTT? I told Silver over FB. You got anyone else on FB?


----------



## PigKnight

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Agreed.
> It certainly is a culture thing.
> Even though we fight like family, I firmly believe we also love each other like family.
> 
> So what's this?
> Are we OTTers going to a different forums or something?
> Somebody needs to keep me posted about these things!



I want to stay here. This place seems nice. We all like tabletop games of some kind: a lot of us play D&D or Pathfinder, I am gonna be working on my own game soon, and you like war games and stuff and there's a section here you'd like. And the lounge looks like it doesn't get much use and has some of the same stuff our OTT had. Seems like a win-win.


----------



## PigKnight

Robin Hoodlum said:


> And I agree with goldo.
> Wheaton IS overrated.



No, no, no. You can't agree with Goldo.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> Welcome!
> 
> You saw one of my posts in OTT? I told Silver over FB. You got anyone else on FB?




I've got EE (who told me about EN World), bone, and ZB.
But I am quitting FB.... like in an hour or so.
CHIA e-mailed me at my work e-mail.
I don't know if ZB, CHIA, or bone know about us being here though.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

PigKnight said:


> No, no, no. You can't agree with Goldo.




I know, right?
What's this world coming to?


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Agreed.
> It certainly is a culture thing.
> Even though we fight like family, I firmly believe we also love each other like family.



I hate to get sentimental here, but basically this. Sure, Hoodsie and I may be at each other's throats half the time, but still, I feel a day I didn't argue with y'all is a darker day for it.

Another factor is, though, that I think the different vibes might cause some friction in the forum, and I don't want to rock ENWorld's boat or anything.


> So what's this?
> Are we OTTers going to a different forums or something?
> Somebody needs to keep me posted about these things!



There's a thread going on in YMTC in the Wizard forums, although it seems a large number of posters there have gotten the hammer. There's also an email address earlier in the thread that appears to be dedicated to the new forum.


Robin Hoodlum said:


> I've got EE (who told me about EN World), bone, and ZB.
> But I am quitting FB.... like in an hour or so.
> CHIA e-mailed me at my work e-mail.
> I don't know if ZB, CHIA, or bone know about us being here though.



That's a shame. Could you contact them and direct them here? Well, except ZB, who's already here and might eat your brain for bugging him or something.


----------



## Kramodlog

PigKnight said:


> I want to stay here. This place seems nice. We all like tabletop games of some kind: a lot of us play D&D or Pathfinder, I am gonna be working on my own game soon, and you like war games and stuff and there's a section here you'd like. And the lounge looks like it doesn't get much use and has some of the same stuff our OTT had. Seems like a win-win.



Where is the lounge?


----------



## Kramodlog

Robin Hoodlum said:


> I've got EE (who told me about EN World), bone, and ZB.
> But I am quitting FB.... like in an hour or so.
> CHIA e-mailed me at my work e-mail.
> I don't know if ZB, CHIA, or bone know about us being here though.



Tell CHIA and Bone.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> Tell CHIA and Bone.



I can't.
Me wife made me delete my FB account. 
Hmmm... I may have their e-mail addresses somewhere.... I'll check.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> Tell CHIA and Bone.




EE is still on FB. I'll PM him Bones real name and EE can direct him here.
EE is on here, right?


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Yep, EE is here.


----------



## Mark CMG

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Another factor is, though, that I think the different vibes might cause some friction in the forum, and I don't want to rock ENWorld's boat or anything.





I think EN World can weather a little rough water while a fine bunch of newcomers get settled (including some who have been registered here but haven't posted much).  I say give it a little time.


Plus, we can always use more wargamers, IMO.


----------



## PigKnight

goldomark said:


> Where is the lounge?




You best be believing in lounges, 'cause you're postin' in one.



Mark CMG said:


> I think EN World can weather a little rough water while a fine bunch of newcomers get settled (including some who have been registered here but haven't posted much).  I say give it a little time.
> 
> 
> Plus, we can always use more wargamers, IMO.



You'd like Hoodsie. Hardcore wargamer.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Meh... this place is alright, it just doesn't have the feel of the OTT. Who knows, maybe it'll work out. Also, I got the same termination email, except there was no moderation history.


----------



## Mark CMG

PigKnight said:


> You'd like Hoodsie. Hardcore wargamer.





Thanks.  Indeed, I was pleased to see that upthread.    Mind you, I am a wargamer, boardgamer, and RPGers, but have realized that we could always use a larger wargamer presence here on EN World.


----------



## Kramodlog

So what is the policy on talking about politics and religion? ARe using the words penis and vagina inappropriate? Can I link an article about a crime without being moderated for "encouraging criminal behavior"?


----------



## calronmoonflower

Zombie_Babies said:


> I don't think they'll let me back. The email I got actually used the word 'terminated'. Like I said, they only say it's cuz of some ToS violation that they don't describe. I hadn't posted in a week or whatever so I have no idea what happened.



I think they nuked us all from orbit, just to be sure.


----------



## Kramodlog

So, I posted my first personal thread in these forums. I feel like such a grown up.


----------



## Kramodlog

calronmoonflower said:


> I think they nuked us all from orbit, just to be sure.



Be sure of what exactly? I'll have a lot of fun in a year...


----------



## jonesy

goldomark said:


> So what is the policy on talking about politics and religion? ARe using the words penis and vagina inappropriate? Can I link an article about a crime without being moderated for "encouraging criminal behavior"?



Forum Rules


----------



## Kramodlog

jonesy said:


> Forum Rules



If you pay, you get special treatment, right?

Can I form a private group"?


----------



## Umbran

goldomark said:


> So what is the policy on talking about politics and religion? ARe using the words penis and vagina inappropriate? Can I link an article about a crime without being moderated for "encouraging criminal behavior"?




Those questions deserve an official response.

You can read The Rules of EN World.  I strongly recommend you read them.  I'll paraphrase a few highlights here...

The rules can be summarized as, "Keep it civil, keep it clean, keep it on-topic,"  Or, to paraphrase Mr. Wheaton, "Don't be a jerk."

Discussion of real world politics and religion are generally not allowed.  We do occasionally have a discussion on copyright laws, because they are relevant to the industry.  Note that EN World does *not* support copyright infringement and you can't use the boards to engage in it - no posting links to sites that have pirated pdfs of game rulebooks, for example.  We do sometimes have threads on sexism, because that topic has also become relevant to the gaming community.  If you come across as a raging sexist or racist, that will probably be deemed uncivil.

The site is intended to be family friendly.  Imagine that you're talking in front of someone's sensitive grandmother (aka, "The Grandma Rule").  Or, that there's a 13 year-old reading the site, and his Mom may be looking over his shoulder.  While those words you chose are not forbidden just as words, I wouldn't expect you'd find many forum-appropriate discussions in which you'll find them useful.

Most things are context-dependent.  "Crime" for example, is pretty broad.  If we get the idea that you are actually endorsing illegal actions, or actively trying to upset people, you may well find yourself moderated. 

We have experienced a lot of edition warring in the past.  We are well and truly tired of it, and are unlikely to put up with much of it.  Similarly, while we encourage constructive criticism and discussion of merits of work, outright bashing on a publisher or designer may not be a good idea.

As a basic policy, you don't talk back to moderators in-thread.  If we use "mod voice" colors (orange or red), you don't argue with it publicly.  If you feel something is unfair, or incorrect, you can take it to Private Message (using the board's PM system) or e-mail to discuss it.  You may be tempted to write a mod an angry letter, worded accordingly.  Aside from how such is extremely unlikely to persuade us that we were wrong to moderate you, Morrus is also not a fan of having his moderators verbally abused.  

Our moderation comes in a few different forms: There's posts in-thread, or edits of your posts when necessary.  There's "warnings", in which you'll receive a PM from a moderator that you've gone over a line - they are merely warnings, a way to let you know before you get in real trouble.  There's also "infractions", which are like warnings, but they have a point value that we keep track of.  If you build up enough infractions, we will start discussing whether EN World is really the site for you.

Other questions?  Feel free to ask.


----------



## Umbran

goldomark said:


> If you pay, you get special treatment, right?




Paid members have access to extra functionality.  The moderators do *not* treat paid members any differently.  



> Can I form a private group?




http://www.enworld.org/forum/group.php


----------



## EscherEnigma

trappedslider said:


> <dt style="margin: 0px 10px 0px 0px; padding: 0px; float: left; min-width: 60px; color: rgb(62, 62, 62); font-size: 11px; line-height: 13px; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248); width: auto !important;">Join Date</dt>
> <dd style="margin: 0px; padding: 0px 0px 3px; color: rgb(62, 62, 62); font-size: 11px; line-height: 13px; background-color: rgb(242, 246, 248);">Jun 2006
> 
> Hard to follow when i joined back in 06
> </dd>



Ew, do you actually still live in Roswel?  Sorry man, that place is a hole.



Cyclone_Joker said:


> Yep, EE is here.




Vaguely.  Honestly, I don't think I want to hassle another forum with my civil rights interests, and I'm just not the gamer or geek I used to be.  I mean really... the last book I ordered, of my own free will and without any compelling outside reason... was a book on working with legacy systems and updating them with unit tests†.  I fear I may have matured.  Then again, I'm up at 12:30 in the morning eating doritos after finishing GMing a session‡, so maybe there's still hope.



jonesy said:


> Forum Rules




Something I wouldn't say or show to my grandmother?  That reminds  me, I need to see if she'd be up for a trip to Vegas for a Chippendale  show.  If not I can just get them to sign a picture for her.

Also: amused that I had to unlink "Forum Rules" in the quote.  Makes sense, but amuses me none-the-less.
________
†The problem is that to effectively and easily unit test you really do need code that's built to be easily test_able_, which most legacy code just plain _wasn't_.  So moving forward I want to put in unit tests (for a variety of reasons) but I'm handcuffed on just how much I can alter the existing code (very much a "if it ain't broke, don't fix it" mentality, which plasters over how while it may not be "broke", it's also not very _maintainable_, which is a problem for a system we hope to field for twenty years or more)
‡Even then, I'm running a Changeling game, not a more combat or action focused game like I used to run.  What?  I play over Skype and maps and action are harder that way, so we found a system/play style that works for it/us.


----------



## trappedslider

EscherEnigma said:


> Ew, do you actually still live in Roswel?  Sorry man, that place is a hole.




One of the better places for my health issues..and due to recent rains we've had some actual flooding for the area...


----------



## EscherEnigma

No, I've been there.  The place is a hole.  And worse, it's a hole that it takes forever to drive into.  The only good thing I can say about it is that it's not Yuma.


----------



## The_Silversword

ragnarokio said:


> also is thesilversword anywhere he is my most special slippery friend




You were never supposed to mention our slippery times together!! that was our secret!!!


----------



## The_Silversword

So, hey guys! Nice to see you all again! I too got a vague email from customer service, I asked for specifics, wheres what  I got:

"We have reviewed your case. While we cannot go into specifics, your account was found to be in violation Code of Conduct and/or the Terms of Use. As such, the account termination still stands.

This matter is considered closed."

So yeah, more vagueness, they also cancelled my DDI subscription and refunded me 12 dollars, even though I had more than 2 months left and 12 dollars doesnt cover 2 months, gah! Im so mad right now, part of me is like screw it I'll move on to Pathfinder or 13th Age or something, Another part of me is like we should totally do what the mods here dont want us talking about. I have so many conflicting emotions right now, I mean we had a lot of fun over there (I did anyways) and for them to just ban us all with some vague ToS/CoC violation crap, gah! Makes me want to just burn all my D&D crap, but its really not the game designers fault that they have sucky forums, or is it!?

Oh, by the way, I contacted draco via the Facespace and told him whats what, so hopefully he'll join us soon. By the by, you guys should all friend me on the Facespace, so that way once EnWorld kicks us out we can still stay in touch.


----------



## calronmoonflower

Umbran said:


> snip



Thanks for the info, it answered a number of questions I had on the unwritten rules of these forums.


----------



## The_Silversword

calron, I cant believe they got you too, what did you ever do to violate the CoC.ToS!?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Meh... this place is alright, it just doesn't have the feel of the OTT. Who knows, maybe it'll work out. Also, I got the same termination email, except there was no moderation history.



What termination e-mail?
Just what the hell is going on!?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

The_Silversword said:


> calron, I cant believe they got you too, what did you ever do to violate the CoC.ToS!?




He is one of us.
That damned him.


----------



## Klirshon

I have received the same response for a request of additional details, Silver. I have sent them an inquiry regarding permission to create a new account.


----------



## jonesy

EscherEnigma said:


> Something I wouldn't say or show to my grandmother?  That reminds  me, I need to see if she'd be up for a trip to Vegas for a Chippendale  show.  If not I can just get them to sign a picture for her.



I know what you mean. My grandma could talk back to a navy staff sergeant and win. I think it might be better if it said 'something you would not say or show to a someone elses grandma', since it refers to the very special grandmother of the person who created this site.


----------



## Klirshon

I am not certain but it seems everyone that has been banned from the forums had their join date updated to Dec. 1969

{If that is the case, Draco managed to not get banned like the rest of us.}


----------



## PigKnight

Umbran said:


> We have experienced a lot of edition warring in the past.  We are well and truly tired of it, and are unlikely to put up with much of it.  Similarly, while we encourage constructive criticism and discussion of merits of work, outright bashing on a publisher or designer may not be a good idea.



We at the OTT accept all forms of edition and game. We might not like or play them but we don't bash them (except FATAL, and I think Hoodsie once really hated a version of some wargame because it was legitimantly badly made but that was a long time ago and not germaine to the subject at hand).  Gotta love the Edition Wars; those were good games.

When 4th Edition came out and there was all that edition warring, I decided to make an actual turn-based RISK-like game and RP in the Off Topic Tavern parodying it where the forces of the 3rd Edition Kingdom warred against the 4th Edition Empire (at some point the forces of no gaming at all tried to destroy all Editions or something; it was a long time ago and I wasn't as good a GM). It was good fun, not many people joined though, surprisingly everyone had fun with it and no was actually edition warred in the Edition War. Anyway, what I'm getting at here is the only edition warring we do is the RP kind.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

> ...they also cancelled my DDI subscription...




Hmm.  Hadn't considered that possibility.

Yet another reason to buy the books instead of or in addition to getting a DDI account.


----------



## Morrus

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Hmm.  Hadn't considered that possibility.
> 
> Yet another reason to buy the books instead of or in addition to getting a DDI account.




That's the biggest issue with the DDI model - they can throw you off the forums for any reason, but that also seems to mean firing you as a customer, too, and losing access to materials you've effectively paid for.  I guess the answer to that is to make sure you always download anything you like or think you might use in the future.


----------



## EscherEnigma

PigKnight said:


> We [formerlly of the] OTT [...]



Fixed.


----------



## The_Silversword

Klirshon said:


> I am not certain but it seems everyone that has been banned from the forums had their join date updated to Dec. 1969
> 
> {If that is the case, Draco managed to not get banned like the rest of us.}



Draco got banned too, but Count Von CoC is still active, go figure.


----------



## Kramodlog

The count won't be active for long. Once you log in with an alt it's life expectency is reduce to a few hours at best. I'm not sure how they do it, but they terminated like 20 of my alts.


----------



## Herschel

Zombie_Babies said:


> Well I'm here now. ZB and his 35k+ posts got killed off for reasons that were not explained.




Because they don't want you to grow up to be adult zombies? 

Erm, wait......I think I need the Monster Manual or Van Richten Guide for that one....


----------



## Kramodlog

I greated a group and invited everyone (I think). PM me if I forgot about you.


----------



## Morrus

Guys, we are trying so hard to welcome you all.  But you appear determined to not let that happen.  Arriving at someone's place, declaring it lame, then following it up by calling them names?  I'm afraid this might not work out for you. If you have that much derision and contempt for this board and those of us trying to run it,  I might suggest circvsmaximvs.com instead, though you'll get back what you dish out there.


----------



## Umbran

Um, yeah, guys, just so you know, the mods can see what you say in a private group.


----------



## Kramodlog

Fine. I'm sorry. I'll be good.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Goldo, there were several things you could have said that would have done a decent job of defusing the situation. You did none of them and managed to sound like a self-righteous prick. I mean, even more so than usual, which it quite impressive in a wrong sort of way.


----------



## PigKnight

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Goldo, there were several things you could have said that would have done a decent job of defusing the situation. You did none of them and managed to sound like a self-righteous prick. I mean, even more so than usual, which it quite impressive in a wrong sort of way.



I gotta agree with Cyclone here. I've honestly been sitting here for like 30 minutes trying to find a way to apologize for goldo and yeah...


----------



## Klirshon

You spent thirty minutes trying to apologise for goldo's behavior? As an experienced OTTer, you should already have known that was a lost cause.


----------



## PigKnight

Klirshon said:


> You spent thirty minutes trying to apologise for goldo's behavior? As an experienced OTTer, you should already have known that was a lost cause.



But, I'm Piggles. I'm the heart.


----------



## Kramodlog

It took 14 years before my parents gave me up for adoption. 30 minutes seems low.


----------



## Kramodlog

PigKnight said:


> But, I'm Piggles. I'm the heart.



So your the chick of the group?


----------



## Klirshon

So who is the brain and who is the spine?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Klirshon said:


> You spent thirty minutes trying to apologise for goldo's behavior? As an experienced OTTer, you should already have known that was a lost cause.




Ah...HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Just like old times!
**** YEAH!


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Klirshon said:


> So who is the brain and who is the spine?




Me of course.


----------



## Kramodlog

Klirshon said:


> So who is the brain and who is the spine?



EE's the brain. As for spine, we have none.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Me of course.



AHAHAHAHHAAHHAHAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

No, really, who's the spine? I'm obviously the brain, after all.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Cyclone_Joker said:


> really, who's the spine? I'm obviously not, after all.



Like I said CJ... I'm the brain AND the spine.

Just like old times, eh?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> EE's the brain. As for spine, we have none.




Yeah.
EE is the brain. He always manages to come off reasonable and is consistent. I have a lot of respect for that guy.
But, I am definitely the spine. When have you guys ever known me to back down from anything?


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Like I said CJ... I'm actively impairing both the brain AND the spine by my existence.



I can tell. So who's the spine?


> Just like old times, eh?



Yep. I'd gotten bored with no one to really yell a-I mean argue wi- I mean, uh... have completely civil and reasonable discussions with... Uh, yeah, let's go with that.

But, you, the spine? Uh, sorry bro, but your home life puts that option out of the table. Beached whales and all.


----------



## Ragnar_Lodbrok

Well, there's any time you come up against certain arguments and just stop posting in the thread...


----------



## Klirshon

Hoodsie: Then you should watch out for murderous scarecrows and lions. They already killed a bunch of flying monkeys and an old, female human in search of you.


----------



## Kramodlog

Robin Hoodlum said:


> But, I am definitely the spine. When have you guys ever known me to back down from anything?



U askin' fo realz?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> U askin' fo realz?




Yup yup


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Cyclone_Joker said:


> I can tell. So who's the spine?
> Yep. I'd gotten bored with no one to really yell a-I mean argue wi- I mean, uh... have completely civil and reasonable discussions with... Uh, yeah, let's go with that.
> 
> But, you, the spine? Uh, sorry bro, but your home life puts that option out of the table. Beached whales and all.



You keep my wife out of this!
*shakes fist*
*then says meekly* But yeah... she has firm control of my balls and my spine.


----------



## Kramodlog

Anyway...

Think you can reactive your Facebook from your work computer (FB accounts are never totally destroyed)? You can re-delete it after.

This way you could give BN and CHIA the info about here. CHIA must be pissed, he also had a DDI sub.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> Anyway...
> 
> Think you can reactive your Facebook from your work computer (FB accounts are never totally destroyed)? You can re-delete it after.
> 
> This way you could give BN and CHIA the info about here. CHIA must be pissed, he also had a DDI sub.



I emailed CHIA from work and told him, and I asked EE to look bone up on FB.
Hopefully they will be joining us soon.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Man... I'm still learning my way around this forum.
Where has HS been? I haven't seen him post.
And ZB? Haven't seen him post yet either.


----------



## Kramodlog

Check the first few pages of this thread. They posted here. Not sure if they'll stay or not. It is the end of era.


----------



## PigKnight

But atleast they'll know where we are if they wanna chat.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

goldomark said:


> Check the first few pages of this thread. They posted here. Not sure if they'll stay or not. It is the end of era.




*wipes tear from eye*


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

I can't seem to get my one line sig to take.
Says it may be implicitly wrapped.

What the hell does that mean?


----------



## PigKnight

Robin Hoodlum said:


> I can't seem to get my one line sig to take.
> Says it may be implicitly wrapped.
> 
> What the hell does that mean?



Your sig is too long. Possibly on the horizontal length.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

I r here.  Been busy is all.  Let's see what this place thinks of us.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

I'm still here. I've just been stuck using my phone. My Mac decided to burn out. I was taking a practice test and suddenly it just blew and there was a smell of something burning. I took it in to Bestbuy to get it fixed. This site, while fat better than WoTC's when it comes to phone, is still not optimal.


----------



## bone_naga

Hey EE thanks for pointing me here. Both my accounts got poofed, I created a new one to try to contact Trevor, turned out the PM function wasn't working so I called them out in the ComBiz thread, and that account immediately got poofed.

Normally I would keep pushing this just on general principle, but honestly the new WotC forums are so absolutely horrendous I can't think of a single reason to stay there now that the other OTTers have migrated.


----------



## bone_naga

jonesy said:


> I know what you mean. My grandma could talk back to a navy staff sergeant and win. I think it might be better if it said 'something you would not say or show to a someone elses grandma', since it refers to the very special grandmother of the person who created this site.



Um...the Navy doesn't have staff sergeants...that's probably why she won...

Well unless you count the Marines I guess, but nobody else does so why start now?


----------



## Zombie_Babies

woot!  Good to see ya bone!  Seems quite a few of us made it.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

So all it took to get ZB to post after five is for WoTC to make their forums worse and go on an OTTer banning spree?

You know what really sucks? We weren't able to reveal our awesome trolling venture I'm the group.


----------



## bone_naga

So does anyone know the story behind the OTTer nuking?


----------



## Kramodlog

I sent you an invite the group here. 

As for the nuking, not sure. We do not know how they selected those who got banned (why ban PigKnight?), and why. Well we sort of know why... But in emails they do not give us any info. I made new accounts but they poof them rather fast.


----------



## jonesy

bone_naga said:


> Um...the Navy doesn't have staff sergeants...that's probably why she won...
> 
> Well unless you count the Marines I guess, but nobody else does so why start now?



I wouldn't know. I was going by the finnish equivalent, which is the same rank regardless of which branch one is in. It's always Ylikersantti ("Oversergeant").


----------



## bone_naga

jonesy said:


> I wouldn't know. I was going by the finnish equivalent, which is the same rank regardless of which branch one is in. It's always Ylikersantti ("Oversergeant").



Oh, my bad. In typical American fashion I automatically assumed that the world revolved around us and defaulted to the US rank structure. Of course, had you done it right and posted "ylikersantti" in the first place I would not have made that assumption (or understood what you were saying, but that's beside the point).


----------



## The_Silversword

goldomark said:


> The count won't be active for long. Once you log in with an alt it's life expectency is reduce to a few hours at best. I'm not sure how they do it, but they terminated like 20 of my alts.



Yeah, it seems their new forum software is able to track IP addresses or something, maybe thats why we got banned, for having multiple accounts? Or no cause Klirshon never had an alt right? He was never banned either, why the hell did they ban him!? Doesnt make any sense, none what so ever.


----------



## bone_naga

The_Silversword said:


> Yeah, it seems their new forum software is able to track IP addresses or something, maybe thats why we got banned, for having multiple accounts? Or no cause Klirshon never had an alt right? He was never banned either, why the hell did they ban him!? Doesnt make any sense, none what so ever.



The new forum definitely tracks IP addresses but that doesn't explain the bans. It doesn't track past IP history only new attempts. My primary was banned before I ever logged into the new forums. My alt survived until my first login and was then banned.


----------



## Morrus

The_Silversword said:


> Yeah, it seems their new forum software is able to track IP addresses or something,




There's no such thing as forum software which doesn't know your IP address, or which doesn't have a single-click IP ban.  It's as standard a function as "post new thread" is.


----------



## Klirshon

What Silver is referring to is that some of the OTTers whom had terminated accounts were able to by-pass the termination and make new accounts. Perhaps this was due to Onesite.


----------



## Morrus

Klirshon said:


> What Silver is referring to is that some of the OTTers whom had terminated accounts were able to by-pass the termination and make new accounts. Perhaps this was due to Onesite.




So presumably some got IP banned and some got merely account banned.  Or some have dynamic IP addresses.


----------



## Klirshon

That is correct.


----------



## The_Silversword

Right, it used to be that IP bans were reserved for only really heinous offenses, like posting porn or whatever, but now it just seems like that they  just give everyone IP bans with no explanation.


----------



## Kramodlog

Mad_Jack just posted in the tavern. Seems just being a tavern regular wasn't enough to get banned. WAS PK part of the group? I thouht he left the group.


----------



## bone_naga

I don't think he was in the group.


----------



## PigKnight

I was in the group.


----------



## bone_naga

Well clearly you didn't post enough.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

I think it's just lazziness on WoTC's and the ORC's parts.  I'm guessing they are having a problem with their site and how accounts are handled. For a while all the previously permanently banned accounts were reactivated. I'm being if we give it some time, they'll fix whatever the problem is and ask the accounts will be reactivated, or we will be able to create new accounts. At the moment their site is so derp it's a bigger headache to be on that site. We may as well have fun here.


----------



## Grehnhewe

What up homies?  I got bounced too.


----------



## bone_naga

What up Gren? At this point it is pretty obvious that they just nuked the entire group.


----------



## Grehnhewe

bone_naga said:


> What up Gren? At this point it is pretty obvious that they just nuked the entire group.



hey bone,  I only found you guys cuz I saw Goldo post on D and D Facebook and messaged him.  I got perma-banned and my DDI account was closed.  The reply from customer service was in summary:  we are not going to tell you why, case closed.


----------



## bone_naga

Yeah that's the same thing everyone got.


----------



## Grehnhewe

Oh well, glad I found you guys...it kind of bummed me out.  These forums kind of rock format wise.   That WotC change is a disaster, and honestly I had not used my DDI account for a while anyways.


----------



## bone_naga

Yeah I've been a member here for a while but I barely posted. The forums here are way better, but everyone I knew was at the WotC forums so I kept posting there instead.

Of which, it never ceases to amaze me just how much fail they can cram into any one action. There are free open source forums out there that work great, and then WotC tries to do its own thing and can't manage to include basic functionality (or something that doesn't hurt your eyes to look at).


----------



## Grehnhewe

Wizards is great at releasing stuff and implementing changes before they are ready.  I would love to hear if are able to communicate with Trevor.  I wonder what the criteria was, and if other posters other than Otters go banned.  If it is a lot, the are alienating a lot of people and obstructing their own revenue.

So Goldo has a group?


----------



## bone_naga

I've tried (despite the IP ban you can use software or masking websites to create alts) but you cannot contact Trevor on the new forums. His profile is set to private.


----------



## Grehnhewe

It is nice they wanted a clean break without all the messy drama.  I Noticed they changed their Facebook profile to single


----------



## sabrinathecat

I can log in, but cannot reach my old threads. I was running two Play-By-Post games and hoping to join one as a player.
FUBAR and SNAFU are pretty much how I would describe the "transfer". Granted site organization was all over the place, but still... this is a disgrace.

If they do not re-establish into a remotely functional format, do people have suggestions for other sites to continue games? I'm fairly certain there is one here...


----------



## PigKnight

sabrinathecat said:


> I can log in, but cannot reach my old threads. I was running two Play-By-Post games and hoping to join one as a player.
> FUBAR and SNAFU are pretty much how I would describe the "transfer". Granted site organization was all over the place, but still... this is a disgrace.
> 
> If they do not re-establish into a remotely functional format, do people have suggestions for other sites to continue games? I'm fairly certain there is one here...




You can create groups and play here.


----------



## calronmoonflower

We had a moderator as a member of our group, I wonder if they banned him too!


----------



## calronmoonflower

lets see


----------



## bone_naga

That would just be epic


----------



## sabrinathecat

I understand they destroyed the entire Play-by-Post Haven's records.
EPIC FAIL.
Hopefully they will recover them so that I can copy and back-up the existing games. Chances are very good I'll be moving them here.


----------



## PigKnight

sabrinathecat said:


> I understand they destroyed the entire Play-by-Post Haven's records.
> EPIC FAIL.
> Hopefully they will recover them so that I can copy and back-up the existing games. Chances are very good I'll be moving them here.



Try way back machine.


----------



## Kramodlog

bone_naga said:


> I've tried (despite the IP ban you can use software or masking websites to create alts) but you cannot contact Trevor on the new forums. His profile is set to private.



Is there anyone higher than Trevor that we can contact via more traditional means (like email)?


----------



## Kramodlog

bone_naga said:


> I've tried (despite the IP ban you can use software or masking websites to create alts) but you cannot contact Trevor on the new forums. His profile is set to private.



With an account I made I could contact him. I couldn't contact other posters before doign some modifications to cloak me. Maybe I found the right formula. So far so good.


----------



## bone_naga

goldomark said:


> With an account I made I could contact him. I couldn't contact other posters before doign some modifications to cloak me. Maybe I found the right formula. So far so good.



Try to lay low with that account until you get a response from him. I sent a message to Dragonette but then I screwed up and posted in the forums and got that account banned.


----------



## sabrinathecat

So far, I've looked at three other sites as potential hosts for my PbP games. GitP was too damn white. Sorry, but I hate trying to read on a white background. Black or Charcoal work much, much better for me. Myth-weavers.com seems to hide their active 4e PbP games extremely well, to the point where I couldn't find any. Obsidian Portal was a maybe.

Supposedly, SWMaybe on the WotC board can "see" the missing archives from PbP, but not access them. Not sure what that means, but hopefully we will get them back.


----------



## The_Silversword

Yeah they have really seemed to make a mess of things over there.


----------



## Kramodlog

It is obvious they care about the forums and forum traffic (why do all these changes if not?). But they manage to mess it up so often it is counter productive. Add all the edition changes, traffic is just not the same as it was say in 2006.


----------



## Bullgrit

Because this thread has grown so long, I'm interested in what exactly happened over at the WotC forums. From the context in this thread, it seems they rearranged their forums, maybe removing an off-topic forum? But they're also deleting/banning accounts?

Bullgrit


----------



## PigKnight

Bullgrit said:


> Because this thread has grown so long, I'm interested in what exactlly happened over at the WotC forums. From the context in this thread, it seems they rearranged their forums, maybe removing an off-topic forum.? But they're also deleting/banning accounts?
> 
> Bullgrit



They changed forums to a bright, bright "Jesus has returned" white that literally hurts my eyes and I think might be damaging my computer screen. They removed all groups, and ip banned (a punishment reserved for only the worst of scam/porn spammers) everyone in certain groups regardless of mod history (i.e. all of the OTTers that were in the OTTer group were perma-ip banned, including me who only had a 24-hour ban because of a draconian ORC) with an excuse that consists of "The CoC allows us to ban anyone anytime". Sure, the forums were pretty  bad before, but they went over the top and purged personas non gratas during their change. Furthermore, they immediately delete anything and everything that they might perceive in a negative light and perma band the offending account. Talk about the white background? Bam! Talk about migrating somewhere? Bam! Ask if there was a computer error on why we can't log in (50% of people could not log in on the first day on their primary account? Bam!


----------



## Kramodlog

Bullgrit said:


> Because this thread has grown so long, I'm interested in what exactly happened over at the WotC forums. From the context in this thread, it seems they rearranged their forums, maybe removing an off-topic forum? But they're also deleting/banning accounts?
> 
> Bullgrit



OTTers, regulars of the Off-Topic Tavern had a private group for more risk conversations. They didn't delete the OTT section, but anyone in the private group was IP-banned (maybe even more). The problem is that most of the people in the group were nice people, only a few alternative posters lived in there. It is lazy work. Plus they are cowards by refusing to talk about it. Some people had DDI accounts and that was cut without warning. Some didn't get to download articles before they were cut off. 

I wonder if previously they couldn't do IP bans and needed a new forum to do that. 

Anyway, this seems like an place with potential.


----------



## PigKnight

goldomark said:


> OTTers, regulars of the Off-Topic Tavern had a private group for more risk conversations. They didn't delete the OTT section, but anyone in the private group was IP-banned (maybe even more). The problem is that most of the people in the group were nice people, only a few alternative posters lived in there. It is lazy work. Plus they are cowards by refusing to talk about it. Some people had DDI accounts and that was cut without warning. Some didn't get to download articles before they were cut off.
> 
> I wonder if previously they couldn't do IP bans and needed a new forum to do that.
> 
> Anyway, this seems like an place with potential.



They could IP ban but they only used it for spam bots and porn spammers.


----------



## Morrus

An IP ban isn't a "level" of punishment. A ban is a ban is a ban; it's the same measure.  The fact that one tool is more effective at it than another is irrelevant.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Morrus said:


> An IP ban isn't a "level" of punishment. A ban is a ban is a ban; it's the same measure.  The fact that one tool is more effective at it than another is irrelevant.



Uh, yeah, it kinda is. Maybe not over here, but different places have different policies.


----------



## Morrus

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Uh, yeah, it kinda is. Maybe not over here, but different places have different policies.




It's not a policy thing.  It's a logical thing about how messageboard software works.  It doesn't make sense.  "Banned with a tool that doesn't work very well" as opposed to "banned with a tool that works a bit better".  It just means you're banned more effectively.  It doesn't mean you're "more banned".

Being in a jail cell with 3 guards outside isn't a "greater" imprisonment that being in one with just one guard outside.  It just works better.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Morrus said:


> It's not a policy thing.  It's a logical thing about how messageboard software works.  It doesn't make sense.  "Banned with a tool that doesn't work very well" as opposed to "banned with a tool that works a bit better".  It just means you're banned more effectively.  It doesn't mean you're "more banned".
> 
> Being in a jail cell with 3 guards outside isn't a "greater" imprisonment that being in one with just one guard outside.  It just works better.



No, IP bans were the final step. This was how WotC operated.

In fact, I can only think of one IP ban off the top of my head before all of ours.


----------



## Morrus

Cyclone_Joker said:


> No, IP bans were the final step. This was how WotC operated.
> 
> In fact, I can only think of one IP ban off the top of my head before all of ours.




Then the policy literally makes no sense.  They ban you.  And then as a "final step" they ban you with a different tool?

The only reason not to IP ban someone when banning them from a messageboard is if you think the IP ban might accidentally catch someone else sharing it.


----------



## PigKnight

Morrus said:


> Then the policy literally makes no sense.  They ban you.  And then as a "final step" they ban you with a different tool?
> 
> The only reason not to IP ban someone when banning them from a messageboard is if you think the IP ban might accidentally catch someone else sharing it.



At least for the WotC, to use a metaphor, 24 hour bans were prison sentences where you could do your time and come out laster, whereas IP bans were the electric chair where once the button is pressed you're never coming back.


----------



## Morrus

PigKnight said:


> At least for the WotC, to use a metaphor, 24 hour bans were prison sentences where you could do your time and come out laster, whereas IP bans were the electric chair where once the button is pressed you're never coming back.




But the duration isn't in any way connected to the tool.  You can have a 24 hour IP ban or a permanent non-IP ban.  

I think what we're discussing here is temp bans vs. permabans (which pretty much every forum on the planet uses, including this one - it's pretty much standard practice and built in to every commercial forum software package I'm aware of).  Whether they use an IP tool or not is just the method.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Morrus said:


> But the duration isn't in any way connected to the tool.  You can have a 24 hour IP ban or a permanent non-IP ban.



Well they didn't have temporary IP bans.


> I think what we're discussing here is temp bans vs. permabans (which pretty much every forum on the planet uses, including this one - it's pretty much standard practice and built in to every commercial forum software package I'm aware of).  Whether they use an IP tool or not is just the method.



IP bans and permabans were entirely different. Goldo has been permabanned a lot on WotC, but I don't think he was ever IP'd. The only IP I can think of was some guy who'd go around and post pictures of aborted fetuses everywhere.


----------



## darjr

I think what happened is that all ban's were dropped at the switch over. When they went to fix that it looks like they only, initially, had a permanent IP ban. Looks like some folks were allowed back in later.


----------



## Morrus

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Well they didn't have temporary IP bans.
> IP bans and permabans were entirely different. Goldo has been permabanned a lot on WotC, but I don't think he was ever IP'd. The only IP I can think of was some guy who'd go around and post pictures of aborted fetuses everywhere.




The important part of that is "permabanned" not "IP banned".  The effectiveness of the tool is just not relevant to anything other than the ease of circumventing it.  A ban is the withdrawal of permission to post; the technical method used to enforce that doesn't affect the binary condition of "permitted/not permitted to post".

The duration (temp, perma) is not a product of the banning tool.   The point I'm trying to make is that folks seem to be saying one form of  not being permitted to post is more "not permitted to post" than  another.  Which makes no sense!

But anyway. I've talked about this far longer than my interest in the subject of WotC's messagebaord software warrants.


----------



## Kramodlog

Morrus said:


> An IP ban isn't a "level" of punishment. A ban is a ban is a ban; it's the same measure.  The fact that one tool is more effective at it than another is irrelevant.



Depends. One is permannent, the other is temporary. Hence the "temp-ban" expression. Maybe suspension would be more accurate and it is a difference of terminology on EW and the OTT.


----------



## Kramodlog

darjr said:


> I think what happened is that all ban's were dropped at the switch over. When they went to fix that it looks like they only, initially, had a permanent IP ban. Looks like some folks were allowed back in later.



Nah, the OTTers were targetted. Some of us called customer service. The staff told them their account was terminated and they didn't have to give any explanations. Considering that everyone in the group, regardless of moderation history, were perma-IP-banned, plus that official line from WotC that we all got by email, I'd say it is not an accident.


----------



## Morrus

goldomark said:


> Depends. One is permannent, the other is temporary. Hence the "temp-ban" expression. Maybe suspension would be more accurate and it is a difference of terminology on EW and the OTT.




Well, "IP Ban" is a standard expression; it's a standard function in forum software.  It's not a "WotC term" or an "EN World term", it's a "that's what that phrase means in the context of messageboard software" term.  And an IP ban isn't permanent; it doesn't have a duration attached to it.  I could prove it to you by IP banning you from here for 10 minutes, but that would be rather silly.

Oh, god, I've bored even myself.  My brain has just shut down.  Have I really been talking about this for the last hour or so?  There really _was_ nothing on TV tonight....


----------



## VoyRager

Hmmm... Sniff, sniff, OK this will do. Hi, I'm the Animal Kingdom rep from the WotC's Off-Topic thread. I'm addressed Voy, which I have suspected its a references about my blond-hair avatar or a notion that I should be blond regardless I'm VoyRager.  I'm known for bringing too much lame smart animals' themes with my trolling and with my epiphanies as well as the most wonderful typoist you ever will meet. Nice to y'all.


----------



## Kramodlog

Morrus said:


> Well, "IP Ban" is a standard expression; it's a standard function in forum software.  It's not a "WotC term" or an "EN World term", it's a "that's what that phrase means in the context of messageboard software" term.



Indeed, but it might be a term of forum regulars, like OTTers. Especially since WotC didn't give IP bans. Their perma-bans weren't IP bans. As far as we know, an IP ban for WotC means a perma-banned from their forums.



> And an IP ban isn't permanent; it doesn't have a duration attached to it.  I could prove it to you by IP banning you from here for 10 minutes, but that would be rather silly.



But it might be for WotC. At least from what we observed on their boards. Hence it is more of a cultural difference.



> Oh, god, I've bored even myself.  My brain has just shut down.  Have I really been talking about this for the last hour or so?  There really _was_ nothing on TV tonight....



Hehehe... I think the OTT graft is going fine.


----------



## darjr

goldomark said:


> Nah, the OTTers were targetted. Some of us called customer service. The staff told them their account was terminated and they didn't have to give any explanations. Considering that everyone in the group, regardless of moderation history, were perma-IP-banned, plus that official line from WotC that we all got by email, I'd say it is not an accident.




Oh I'm not denying that. I'm just trying to piece together part of the 'how' of it. I don't have any idea about anybody being targeted or not.


----------



## Kramodlog

VoRager said:


> Hmmm... Sniff, sniff, OK this will do. Hi, I'm the Animal Kingdom rep from the WotC's Off-Topic thread. I'm addressed Voy, which I have suspected its a references about my blond-hair avatar or a notion that I should be blond regardless I'm VoyRager.  I'm known for bringing too much lame smart animals' themes with my trolling and with my epiphanies as well as the most wonderful typoist you ever will meet. Nice to y'all.



Who are you? It is like you are mixing 2 or 3 posters together. PM with your original identity.


----------



## Kramodlog

darjr said:


> Oh I'm not denying that. I'm just trying to piece together part of the 'how' of it. I don't have any idea about anybody being targeted or not.



It is considered bad form to not constantly disagree with me.


----------



## darjr

goldomark said:


> It is considered bad form to not constantly disagree with me.




That's how I roll man! My form is terrible, don't you forget it. I got a crick in my neck to prove it!

I do wonder about other folks that may have been banned without having any interaction with the OTT. (is that a thing now?)


----------



## VoyRager

I' myself as a individual member of WotC wasn't banned and can grossly speculated of whys this was the issued with the OTT's future with the WotC's forums. The OTT's regulars can be a little much with a tainted of intimidation toward the fainted hearts and sensitive types, so been surprise by reading all of this?! Truthfully mixed feels here for of'course and I shouldn't be surprise, all both in the same note. So as for "the how's?" well, that would be easily done if the doer was properly motivated afterall, are we all not mere men among a fascade of civilities and Definitely LOLs here too!! Roll? I think t his isn't the Oz we once had darjr, Don't say I didn't say this. I have 4thEds to set-up now, you're on your own.


----------



## PigKnight

But a lot of people that hadn't done anything wrong ever got perma IP banned (i.e. Me). I can't long in or create an account from anywhere on my school.


----------



## Kramodlog

darjr said:


> That's how I roll man! My form is terrible, don't you forget it. I got a crick in my neck to prove it!



Reported!



> I do wonder about other folks that may have been banned without having any interaction with the OTT. (is that a thing now?)



There might be others, but they haven't pop here as far as we know.


----------



## Grehnhewe

PigKnight said:


> But a lot of people that hadn't done anything wrong ever got perma IP banned (i.e. Me). I can't long in or create an account from anywhere on my school.



Me too PK, I posted more than you maybe in group, but I had never been banned and very rarely modded.  They also closed my DDI account.  I am pretty sure the Gestapo will be coming to take away my DnD books...should I hide them?


----------



## PigKnight

Grehnhewe said:


> Me too PK, I posted more than you maybe in group, but I had never been banned and very rarely modded.  They also closed my DDI account.  I am pretty sure the Gestapo will be coming to take away my DnD books...should I hide them?



Yes.


----------



## Ragnar_Lodbrok

Grehnhewe said:


> Me too PK, I posted more than you maybe in group, but I had never been banned and very rarely modded.  They also closed my DDI account.  I am pretty sure the Gestapo will be coming to take away my DnD books...should I hide them?



Depends on the edition. If it's 4E, they're doing you a favor.


----------



## PigKnight

I like 4e from a design standpoint.


----------



## Ragnar_Lodbrok

PigKnight said:


> I like 4e from a design standpoint.



I won't deny it introduced some good ideas. But as the smilie indicates, the post was in jest.


----------



## calronmoonflower

It used to be WotC policy allowed people who's accounts where banned to create new ones. They did keep track of those that returned, but did not reban them just for that.


----------



## Kramodlog

Indeed, but if you mentioned that you were a (perma or temp) banned poster, you're new account was perma-banned (but not perma-IP-banned). You're old account, if only temp ban, wasn't affected.


----------



## The_Silversword

VoRager said:


> Hmmm... Sniff, sniff, OK this will do. Hi, I'm the Animal Kingdom rep from the WotC's Off-Topic thread. I'm addressed Voy, which I have suspected its a references about my blond-hair avatar or a notion that I should be blond regardless I'm VoyRager.  I'm known for bringing too much lame smart animals' themes with my trolling and with my epiphanies as well as the most wonderful typoist you ever will meet. Nice to y'all.




Hey, yeah, I remember you, whats up?


----------



## The_Silversword

Ragnar_Lodbrok said:


> I won't deny it introduced some good ideas. But as the smilie indicates, the post was in jest.




My 4e Ranger could kick your 3.5 Ranger's ass!!


----------



## Ragnar_Lodbrok

The_Silversword said:


> My 4e Ranger could kick your 3.5 Ranger's ass!!



Not that relevant. The rules are entirely different. And you wouldn't have saves, so I'm not so sure of that.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

Ragnar_Lodbrok said:


> Not that relevant. The rules are entirely different. And you wouldn't have saves, so I'm not so sure of that.



Actually, the biggest problem is that a 3.5 ranger would go first and has Rhino's Rush. Therefore, the 4e Ranger would be chunky salsa before it gets to move.

But, yeah, it doesn't really matter. 3.5 is a better game and therefore wins by default


----------



## VoyRager

I'm in this migration by a coincident. A game I'm in may and maybe migrating here so its snafus for my migrating here anyway. Saw the OTT fellas welcoming wagon thread and tis so a natural draw for my easily entertained tastes. That's all, dude. Watz's Up!


----------



## VoyRager

...


----------



## VoyRager

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Actually, the biggest problem is that a 3.5 ranger would go first and has Rhino's Rush. Therefore, the 4e Ranger would be chunky salsa before it gets to move.
> 
> But, yeah, it doesn't really matter. 3.5 is a better game and therefore wins by default



Fox Cunning! Now is it my turn, yet? Oh! Oops! Ok, I withdraw. I get it; you  talking about that other's ranger.


----------



## Umbran

VoyRager said:


> How do you delete a post here?





You may click "edit post" and delete the content.  However, you need a moderator to outright delete the post. And normally, we don't bother. A spare empty post isn't a big deal.


----------



## The_Silversword

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Actually, the biggest problem is that a 3.5 ranger would go first and has Rhino's Rush. Therefore, the 4e Ranger would be chunky salsa before it gets to move.
> 
> But, yeah, it doesn't really matter. 3.5 is a better game and therefore wins by default




Im not even going to argue about which is better, you already know my opinion on that, but what makes you think that the 3.5 Ranger would go first!?


----------



## The_Silversword

VoyRager said:


> I'm in this migration by a coincident. A game I'm in may and maybe migrating here so its snafus for my migrating here anyway. Saw the OTT fellas welcoming wagon thread and tis so a natural draw for my easily entertained tastes. That's all, dude. Watz's Up!



Oh, you didnt get banned too?


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

The_Silversword said:


> Im not even going to argue about which is better, you already know my opinion on that, but what makes you think that the 3.5 Ranger would go first!?



Initiative is dirt-cheap in 3.5, especially at high levels.


----------



## sabrinathecat

So, is it just me, or did WotC totally bury the complaints/feedback page to where it is extremely difficult to find (like just about everything, actually)? Seems like Trevor_WotC has disappeared from the scene.

I was very unkind when this board was hacked a few months ago, and repaired very quickly. WotC, on the other hand, had all the time in the world for this, because they had planned the transition. There was time to design, test, refine, and set up the board however they wanted. Seems to me that they just don't care, and are trying to drive people away from their boards. I expect better designs from a Jr College beginning HTML class than what they have up there now. Sad, very sad.


----------



## darjr

sabrinathecat said:


> WotC, on the other hand, had all the time in the world for this, because they had planned the transition.




It may have been a self inflicted wound, but I think the guys responsible for making the transition work didn't have very much time at all. And the need to switch may have been completely out of WotC hands.


----------



## PigKnight

WotC forgot to pay for the forum or something and said it was an upgrade.


----------



## Kramodlog

And that is another problem with WotC; their communication strategy. They can't do internet and they refuse to talk to customers. People would have been more tolerant if the reason for the sudden and imperfect changes would have been explained. Or if we'd been told a few months ago that they were going to change the forums (and maybe ask for user feedback, polls aren't only for playtests).


----------



## The_Silversword

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Initiative is dirt-cheap in 3.5, especially at high levels.



4e characters add half their level to initiative, so its possible my 4e Ranger will go first and use some bad ass power on you! If that doesnt kill you outright Im spending an action point and blasting you again!!!


----------



## The_Silversword

PigKnight said:


> WotC forgot to pay for the forum or something and said it was an upgrade.



That would explain alot!


----------



## PigKnight

goldomark said:


> And that is another problem with WotC; their communication strategy. They can't do internet and they refuse to talk to customers. People would have been more tolerant if the reason for the sudden and imperfect changes would have been explained. Or if we'd been told a few months ago that they were going to change the forums (and maybe ask for user feedback, polls aren't only for playtests).



They realized a week before.


----------



## Kramodlog

PigKnight said:


> They realized a week before.



That is a rumor, not WotC's official line.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

The_Silversword said:


> 4e characters add half their level to initiative, so its possible my 4e Ranger will go first and use some bad ass power on you! If that doesnt kill you outright Im spending an action point and blasting you again!!!



Eh, Astral Projection says hi.


----------



## jeffh

darjr said:


> It may have been a self inflicted wound, but I think the guys responsible for making the transition work didn't have very much time at all. And the need to switch may have been completely out of WotC hands.




I've heard some plausible scenarios where the need to change could be out of their hands, but none where it sneaks up on them this suddenly.


----------



## darjr

jeffh said:


> I've heard some plausible scenarios where the need to change could be out of their hands, but none where it sneaks up on them this suddenly.




It was buried in the support thread. But I don't have it so, could have imagined it.


----------



## The_Silversword

Cyclone_Joker said:


> Eh, Astral Projection says hi.



Your ranger has Astral Projection!?


----------



## Kramodlog

How oudl that give him an advantage? Go into the astral, go into the outer, go into the rpime, fight SS, die but not really?


----------



## The_Silversword

I think the idea is that in astral form he would be impervious to my attacks, then he phazes back to reality and blasts me. But if a Ranger has access to Astral Projection, is he really still considered a Ranger at that point, granted old-school Rangers could cast magic missles, but still!


----------



## jeffh

darjr said:


> It was buried in the support thread. But I don't have it so, could have imagined it.




I'm not denying that it's the official story. I'm saying the official story probably isn't accurate, or at the very least, that to the extent that it is, that reflects poorly on WotC.


----------



## The_Silversword

jeffh said:


> I'm not denying that it's the official story. I'm saying the official story probably isn't accurate, or at the very least, that to the extent that it is, that reflects poorly on WotC.



Yeah it reflects very poorly on them, never really had a problem with them, I even liked 4e, and I didnt think 5e was as bad as alot of people was saying, but to just ban me, and the others, and revoke my DDI sub with no reason given? I mean if they woulda said well you were banned cause of this and that and this other thing that you did, then fine ok whatever, but to just say oh well we cant go into specifics youre just banned and no more DDI for you, its like theyre telling me that they dont want me playing their stupid game anymore and dont want any more of my money, so, has anybody given 13th Age a try?


----------



## Zombie_Babies

*pops in*

'Sup ...

*pops out*


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

The_Silversword said:


> Your ranger has Astral Projection!?



They're divine casters. It's not hard at all to get the Rune Domain. Getting that lets one Bind a Nightmare.


----------



## Grehnhewe

Wanna hear ironic?  So I get an e mail from wizards asking if I want to download the latest DnD play test, and I can if I want.  Not that I was enthused with the first one and only one I read through,


----------



## PigKnight

I'm downloading the packet because of interest from a design perspective.


----------



## Kramodlog

PigKnight said:


> I'm downloading the packet because of interest from a design perspective.



It is a good way to avoid making the same mistakes.


----------



## The_Silversword

Zombie_Babies said:


> *pops in*
> 
> 'Sup ...
> 
> *pops out*




Oh gawd! It appears ZB has Astral Projection as well!


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Grehnhewe said:


> Wanna hear ironic?  So I get an e mail from wizards asking if I want to download the latest DnD play test, and I can if I want.  Not that I was enthused with the first one and only one I read through,




Heh, I got that email this morning or something.  It makes me miss the :rofl: emoticon.  Like, a lot.  



The_Silversword said:


> Oh gawd! It appears ZB has Astral Projection as well!




Yar, I be mad powahful yo.


----------



## CHIA Pet

Hey guys.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

CHIA Pet said:


> Hey guys.




Hey buddy!
Glad you made it.
Ask Goldo for an invite to group.


----------



## The_Silversword

Hey alright CHIA made it!


----------



## calronmoonflower

Looks like someone on the WotC forums has found this thread, post


----------



## The_Silversword

Kool. hopefully that will lead other lost Otters this away.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Meh... WoTC's OTT will resemble its rec-room shortly. There aren't many people posting over there. Mostly it appears to be crazy_money moving threads in there, and the threads dying off. We really were prolific posters over there. We were constantly posting. Oh well, their loss.


----------



## The_Silversword

Mad_Jack said:


> So, um, yeah, I'm here. But I definitely won't be around much - I don't have enough time to keep up with one forum, nevermind two...



Well its kool you stopped by to say hi, did you get my message or follow voyrager's link in the OTT? We were kinda wondering if you got hit too, looks like they just banned everyone in the OTTer group, gave us all the same emails, "we cant tell you why youre banned but youre banned." Really I think you should hang out here more, Im liking this forum alot better, the mods here seem alot more polite, and I like that you can change the back ground from light to dark, makes it easier to read. Take it cheezy my man, and as you can see Im still rockin the Cadburry Silversword bar you made for me, thanks again!!!


----------



## CHIA Pet

Yep, our mass ban was bound to happen sooner or later. Does anyone know how to accept an invite to a group?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

CHIA Pet said:


> Yep, our mass ban was bound to happen sooner or later. Does anyone know how to accept an invite to a group?




Yeah... accept it.
Seriously though, it should be somewhere on the request page.
I think.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

CHIA...
When are we gonna play some Memoir '44 online? I haven't played since the last time you and I did.


----------



## PigKnight

I'm down for it. I already downloaded it.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

PigKnight said:


> I'm down for it. I already downloaded it.




Memoir '44?
Really Piggles!
My screen name on there is... Robin Hoodlum!

When do you want to play a game?


----------



## PigKnight

I'm gonna be a bit busy with papers I need to write and reading The Odyssey until Wedsday afternoon. So sometime Wednesday or after.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

PigKnight said:


> I'm gonna be a bit busy with papers I need to write and reading The Odyssey until Wedsday afternoon. So sometime Wednesday or after.




Well, I'm free Wed. evening.
I'll holla at you then.


----------



## VoyRager

Mad_Jack said:


> So, um, yeah, I'm here. But I definitely won't be around much - I don't have enough time to keep up with one forum, nevermind two...



ditto


----------



## Kramodlog

Thanks for posting the link in the Tavern. Maybe some stray OTTers like Jetshield will find their way to EW.


----------



## The_Silversword

We're also missing KGM and domika, and youre thinking of Jetshield!?? I really worry about you sometimes.


----------



## Cyclone_Joker

The_Silversword said:


> We're also missing KGM and domika, and youre thinking of Jetshield!?? I really worry about you sometimes.



You forgot about Captain_Obvious. But I'm more worried about Micha. I think he might have sold his computer and several organs to keep his car working.


----------



## PigKnight

I thought KGM stopped posting a long time ago.


----------



## The_Silversword

Well KGM still showed up every once in awhile, and yeah I kinda did forget about Captain Oblivious, and yeah Im wondering about Micha as well, he hadnt posted in the tavern for a while before the forum change, hope hes alright, probably just got sucked into Star Trek online or whatever.


----------



## The_Silversword

A totally off-topic thought (arent we best known for that?) But, when I first got a linky to this place and the title was "General of the WotC forums and the OTT" I was thinking, "Oh wow theres a General!?"


----------



## The_Silversword

So, it occurred to me the Micha had a link to his deviantart page in his sig, so sent him a message on there, hopefully he checks it soon.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Good to see ye CHIA.  We was worried for a minute.


----------



## PigKnight

I thought captain obvious was a sock puppet.


----------



## Kramodlog

Nope, she was the real deal. An actual awaken gurl in OTTerlandia.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Yep, she was legit and kinda kewl.


----------



## PigKnight

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Well, I'm free Wed. evening.
> I'll holla at you then.



Well this is kinda crappy, but my computer doesn't like running things that use OpenGL to see if it'll work and turns out Memoir '44 uses OpenGL. Well, turns out we won't be able to play a few games with it because my graphics card hates OpenGL.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

PigKnight said:


> Well this is kinda crappy, but my computer doesn't like running things that use OpenGL to see if it'll work and turns out Memoir '44 uses OpenGL. Well, turns out we won't be able to play a few games with it because my graphics card hates OpenGL.




*sigh*
Damnit!


----------



## CHIA Pet

I'll try to make it on sometime this week to play, RH. Been a bit busy lately, though.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

S'alright bro.
I know how it gets sometimes.
I just haven't played since the last time we did.
Well, that's not entirely true. I played my brother a number of times while we were in Florida, but it was the boardgame, not online.
My damn board is so worn out, it ripped in a few places and I had to use tape to repair it. My deck of Command Cards is worn out, which is fine since I ordered a new deck. The dice that came with the game, painted wooden ones, are worn too. I bought some blank sixers and put colored stickers on them to replace the worn ones.

Right now I am solo playing _Soft Underbelly: Italy '43_, a Strategy & Tactics magazine game. It's turn 7 (out of 22), and the Allies have just taken Naples and done the supply switch. The Germans are in trouble, with few units on the board. I can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm playing the historical scenario, but there is a scenario where Hitler decides to reinforce the 10th Army with the 5th Army and elements of the 2nd SS. Haven't played it yet though. That makes it an almost impossible task for the Allies.


----------



## CHIA Pet

Robin Hoodlum said:


> S'alright bro.
> I know how it gets sometimes.
> I just haven't played since the last time we did.
> Well, that's not entirely true. I played my brother a number of times while we were in Florida, but it was the boardgame, not online.
> My damn board is so worn out, it ripped in a few places and I had to use tape to repair it. My deck of Command Cards is worn out, which is fine since I ordered a new deck. The dice that came with the game, painted wooden ones, are worn too. I bought some blank sixers and put colored stickers on them to replace the worn ones.
> 
> Right now I am solo playing _Soft Underbelly: Italy '43_, a Strategy & Tactics magazine game. It's turn 7 (out of 22), and the Allies have just taken Naples and done the supply switch. The Germans are in trouble, with few units on the board. I can't wait to see how it turns out. I'm playing the historical scenario, but there is a scenario where Hitler decides to reinforce the 10th Army with the 5th Army and elements of the 2nd SS. Haven't played it yet though. That makes it an almost impossible task for the Allies.




Sounds fun! Is it online or a physcial game?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Physical game.
Memoir '44 is the only wargame I play online. Although, I would class memoir '44 as a war themed game more than an actual wargame.

You should check out Strategy & Tactics Press. They offer sample packs of the game edition magazines for $40. You get one S&T magazine with game and one World at War magazine with game. They normally run around $25- $30 a piece.

Which reminds me... my subscription to S&T runs out after the next issue. I need to re-up.


----------



## CHIA Pet

Sounds pretty cool! Do they include rules for games in the mags routinely?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

CHIA Pet said:


> Sounds pretty cool! Do they include rules for games in the mags routinely?




In the game edition, yes.
The magazine comes with a complete game... rules, map, and counters.


----------



## The_Silversword

You guys should play some Need for Speed World with me!


----------



## CHIA Pet

The_Silversword said:


> You guys should play some Need for Speed World with me!




Shoot me a link.


----------



## CHIA Pet

How come I can quote here but not in-group?


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

You can unsubscribe from the thread. How? I'll leave that for another post.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Mad_Jack said:


> Okay, how do I get this place to stop emailing me every time somebody replies in a thread I've replied to?




You can change the notification type to daily, weekly, etc. in your control screen.


----------



## The_Silversword

CHIA Pet said:


> Shoot me a link.



For real? As many times as I posted links in the tavern!?

fine, fine, heres another one: http://world.needforspeed.com/


----------



## CHIA Pet

Thanks.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

And yet nobody wants to play Memoir '44 with me.

*angry face*... well... *normal face*


----------



## The_Silversword

Id play Memoir 44 with ya, but I have a feeling youre probably passed out about right now, which explains why youre not playing NFSW with me right now! Love the sig by the way RH!, I may have to steal that, or at least borrow it for awhile.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

The_Silversword said:


> Id play Memoir 44 with ya, but I have a feeling youre probably passed out about right now, which explains why youre not playing NFSW with me right now! Love the sig by the way RH!, I may have to steal that, or at least borrow it for awhile.




You are welcome to get beat by me in Memoir '44 anytime you want!
And you are welcome to steal my sig too!

What are friends for?


----------



## EscherEnigma

Robin Hoodlum said:


> What are friends for?



To remind you "dude, when you've been a 3 for decades, if a 10 comes up to you and pretends interest you _shun_ that [derogatory word]!  She isn't into you!  It's just your [clearance/wallet/metro pass/library card] she's into!"

*Edit: *as a side note, had another security briefing.  I think the guys that give said briefings take a perverse delight in reminding the audience they're a bunch of ugly neck-beards with no redeeming features that will die alone and unloved.


----------



## Kramodlog

Why so many neckbeards in your neck of the woods?


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

EscherEnigma said:


> To remind you "dude, when you've been a 3 for decades, if a 10 comes up to you and pretends interest you _shun_ that [derogatory word]!  She isn't into you!  It's just your [clearance/wallet/metro pass/library card] she's into!"
> 
> *Edit: *as a side note, had another security briefing.  I think the guys that give said briefings take a perverse delight in reminding the audience they're a bunch of ugly neck-beards with no redeeming features that will die alone and unloved.




Yeah but...
I *am* ugly.
*shrug*
The truth... it hurts.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Yeah but...
> I *am* ugly.
> *shrug*
> The truth... it hurts.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kkDnW5xAus8&sns=em


----------



## The_Silversword

Mad_Jack said:


> Lady NeferRa just popped into the OTT, gave her the news in pm... Hope I don't get banned for it, lol.




As long as it was a PM you should be alright, if you said something about it in the forums where everybody could see it then they would probably get you with forum disruption or something.


----------



## The_Silversword

...with a fly speed of 7!? lol I may have to use that in the next game. I can hear the players now, "We're getting attacked by what!?" lol


----------



## The_Silversword

MJ, I really need to game with you sometime! When youre not too busy stalking celebrities!


----------



## calronmoonflower

We are actually being missed by at least one person. link


----------



## The_Silversword

Who was Vinny the Shark? I recall seeing that poster in the club, figured it was somebody's alt, how did they escape the PURGE? I thought they got everybody in the club? Never did figure out who Hiram Coffee was either.


----------



## Kramodlog

He is the Captain. That was an alt. You can post a few times with an alt before it poofs.

I ram coffee was Escef,who seems to be the only escapee of OTTer island.


----------



## The_Silversword

I wasnt able to use any of my alts, they got all of mines from the get-go.

of course, I made all my accounts on the same computer, with the same IP address, so that might have something to do with it.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

I made the mistake of logging into my new alt without being in a Wi-Fi network not my own and they finally capped my alt. They really hate us over there.


----------



## Dog Moon

Wait, WotC deletes alts?

Dang, no love... AFAIK, both EnWorld and Paizo have no problems with Alts.  Paizo even goes so far as adding the number of posts between all linked Alts.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

It's not that WotC has a problem with alts, they apparently had a problem with some of the OTTers and deleted all of _their_ alts while re-doing the website.


----------



## Kramodlog

More like perma-banned 20 posters's IP adresses with no explainations why.


----------



## Klirshon

They did give an explaination, though it was just a "we reserve the rights to terminate accounts at our discretion" clause.


----------



## Dog Moon

Huh, that all sucks.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Let WotC die off.
Not many people left that give a crap about them or their crappy products.


----------



## Dog Moon

Well, when 5e eventually hits the market, that will determine how true your statement actually is about how many people care about their products.

Hrm, it's funny that the five Similar Threads to this are "The WotC Forums Are Down".  All different threads, spanning from 2004 through 2012.


----------



## Umbran

Dog Moon said:


> Dang, no love... AFAIK, both EnWorld and Paizo have no problems with Alts.





*Our normal policy is this:  We don't mind alts, so long as they are not used to get around bans, to deceive people, or otherwise be a jerk. *


----------



## sabrinathecat

Well, one of my players finally found where the play-by-post threads were moved to.
Sadly, by yielding to democracy, the majority of players wanted to move to Myth-weavers, so that is where my games are. I like the layout and group here (especially with the dark display option).


----------



## Dog Moon

Umbran said:


> *Our normal policy is this:  We don't mind alts, so long as they are not used to get around bans, to deceive people, or otherwise be a jerk. *




Well, yeah, of course!  I do remember a couple of instances where people using alts caused trouble.  And one instance where someone had like 20 alts and decided at a certain point to have conversations with himself...


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Dog Moon said:


> Well, when 5e eventually hits the market, that will determine how true your statement actually is about how many people care about their products.




Fair enough.
But keep in mind that people "caring" and people buying something simply through name recognition are entirely separate.

WotC could put "Dungeons & Dragons" on boxes full of feces and still sell them for $25 a piece.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Dog Moon said:


> Well, yeah, of course!  I do remember a couple of instances where people using alts caused trouble.  And one instance where someone had like 20 alts and decided at a certain point to have conversations with himself...




Hmmm....
Reminds me of somebody... Communist Dog and W.S. Lawyer come to mind...


----------



## Morrus

Dog Moon said:


> Well, when 5e eventually hits the market, that will determine how true your statement actually is about how many people care about their products.




Yup. In fact, our longest, busiest threads are about the development of 5E.  People certainly care; anyone who thinks otherwise isn't paying attention.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Oh. So now you insult and bait me by saying I am not paying attention?
Awesome.

Maybe I should re-phrase what I said...

People who matter don't care about WotC or their crappy products.
Now, that makes more sense.


----------



## Morrus

Robin Hoodlum said:


> People who matter don't care about WotC or their crappy products.
> Now, that makes more sense.




Let me guess - are _you_ "people who matter"?


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Morrus said:


> Let me guess - are _you_ "people who matter"?



No, he is just very sensitive, and more than likely, has spent too much time stuck in the office at work.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Morrus said:


> Let me guess - are _you_ "people who matter"?




Of course I am.

I am ready to accept your apology for insulting and baiting me.


----------



## Dog Moon

But EVERYONE matters!


----------



## Grehnhewe

There is no I in everyone.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz

Dog Moon said:


> But EVERYONE matters!




I anti-matter.


----------



## sabrinathecat

<never mind>


----------



## Kramodlog

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I anti-matter.



Well at least we have one Star Trek fan here. I thought it was just full fo Star Bore fans.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

What?
Still no apology from Morrus for baiting and insulting me?
Then I guess it is ok to bait and insult people on these forums?

Or do only Moderators get to do that for free?


----------



## Morrus

Robin Hoodlum said:


> What?
> Still no apology from Morrus for baiting and insulting me?
> Then I guess it is ok to bait and insult people on these forums?
> 
> Or do only Moderators get to do that for free?




Robin, drop it, please.  Nobody has baited or insulted you.  If you have a problem, feel free to email me; my email address is linked from the bottom of every page.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Grehnhewe said:


> There is no I in everyone.




What if I want to be in everyone?


----------



## Dog Moon

Zombie_Babies said:


> What if I want to be in everyone?




Ewwwww.


----------



## Kramodlog

Can I watch?


----------



## Dog Moon

goldomark said:


> Can I watch?




Ewwwww.


----------



## bone_naga

Robin Hoodlum said:


> What?
> Still no apology from Morrus for baiting and insulting me?
> Then I guess it is ok to bait and insult people on these forums?
> 
> Or do only Moderators get to do that for free?



Dude, chill. These aren't the WotC forums where mods are actually out to get us. Nor have they been strictly enforcing questionable if not downright retarded interpretations of an extremely vague CoC while simultaneously providing no clarification.

You're safe now. WotC can't hurt you anymore.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

goldomark said:


> Can I watch?




You know it bro.  Do me a favor and dress up like a mailman, though.  I wanna relive some peepin' escapades from my past.


----------



## Kramodlog

Zombie_Babies said:


> You know it bro.  Do me a favor and dress up like a mailman, though.  I wanna relive some peepin' escapades from my past.



Cosplay!? I like this scenario more and more.


----------



## the Jester

Zombie_Babies said:


> What if I want to be in everyone?




Then I'd say you aren't too discriminating.


----------



## Jet Shield

Hey! I'd almost given up finding the new OTTer home. Glad I decided to check one last time. I went through 7 socks trying to get a post about the migration to stick for more than 1.6 seconds  over there, but the greenskins were on some kind of rampage.

I suppose I have to thank TS for getting the info on where y'all went to stick long enough for me to see it.


----------



## trappedslider

Jet Shield said:


> I suppose I have to thank TS for getting the info on where y'all went to stick long enough for me to see it.



Everybody needs a home..so you're welcome


----------



## Kramodlog

Jet Shield said:


> Hey! I'd almost given up finding the new OTTer home. Glad I decided to check one last time. I went through 7 socks trying to get a post about the migration to stick for more than 1.6 seconds  over there, but the greenskins were on some kind of rampage.
> 
> I suppose I have to thank TS for getting the info on where y'all went to stick long enough for me to see it.



Jet! Welcome to ENWorld! I already violated the CoC...

I'll invite you to the group. I'm not sure where you get to accept the invite.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Jet Shield said:


> Hey! I'd almost given up finding the new OTTer home. Glad I decided to check one last time. I went through 7 socks trying to get a post about the migration to stick for more than 1.6 seconds  over there, but the greenskins were on some kind of rampage.
> 
> I suppose I have to thank TS for getting the info on where y'all went to stick long enough for me to see it.



I've created a few socks to send PMs to the peeps still at the WoTC forums, but the socks usually get killed off rather quickly. I tried to send you a PM, but the ORCs had killed your account and I didn't know any of your socks. Good to see you made your way over here. Now let's make fun of Silver.


----------



## Morrus

Weird question. Last time I was at WotC's messageboards the moderators were called "Wiz0s". What does "ORCs" stand for, and how long have they been called that?


----------



## trappedslider

Morrus said:


> Weird question. Last time I was at WotC's messageboards the moderators were called "Wiz0s". What does "ORCs" stand for, and how long have they been called that?




Online Response Crew..it happened back around the gleemax incident


----------



## Morrus

trappedslider said:


> Online Response Crew..it happened back around the gleemax incident




Shows how long it's been since I last looked there!


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Jet Shield said:


> Hey! I'd almost given up finding the new OTTer home. Glad I decided to check one last time. I went through 7 socks trying to get a post about the migration to stick for more than 1.6 seconds  over there, but the greenskins were on some kind of rampage.
> 
> I suppose I have to thank TS for getting the info on where y'all went to stick long enough for me to see it.




Great to see ya, homie!


----------



## Jet Shield

It's good to be back among OTTerkind. It seems strange to have all these other people around, but in a good way.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Yeah, it's pretty ok here over all.  Gotta be a lot more careful in our group but that's fine, too.  They've been very nice so far.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

I wonder how aUFC thread would go over over here. Couple of good fights coming up.


----------



## Jet Shield

There are enough non-OTTers here so you might get more than 2 or 3 people posting in it.


----------



## Kramodlog

But but but... I want to be part of an elite group of snobs.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I wonder how aUFC thread would go over over here. Couple of good fights coming up.




Sounds like you need to try one.  Oh, and the current season of TUF is actually pretty good.  It's the first one I've been interested in in a while.  Quality fights and a real hatred between the coaches ... er, at least coming from Ronda.  Miesha doesn't seem to be bothered.


----------



## Kramodlog

Mad_Jack said:


> Dude, you're from Quebec...



The French are elitist snobs. Being a Québecois is like being French Lite. 

Frenc Lite. Same rude taste, none of the smell.



> In other news LFK just showed up over there, I gave him the news.



Cool.


----------



## The_Silversword

Jet Shield said:


> Hey! I'd almost given up finding the new OTTer home. Glad I decided to check one last time. I went through 7 socks trying to get a post about the migration to stick for more than 1.6 seconds  over there, but the greenskins were on some kind of rampage.
> 
> I suppose I have to thank TS for getting the info on where y'all went to stick long enough for me to see it.




Awesome! glad you made it man! The gangs almost all here!!


----------



## The_Silversword

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Blah,blah. Now let's make fun of Silver.




What!? Why would you want to make fun of me!? I, I, thought we was bros!? And anyways, Jet's not gonna make fun of me cause I always let him win at Need For Speed. Some of you other guys should try it, really, its not bad for a racing game, a FREE racing game, really. I havnt been playin it much myself, aside from working overtime, Ive also been sucked into GTAV.


----------



## Jet Shield

Well, there's a game I haven't played in a long while. In fact, I haven't played _any_ games for more than a few minutes at a time in a while. It's almost like I'm getting old.


----------



## Cpt_Micha

Hey guys. I just now came back... and found my account terminated and found that forum the most god awful mess I could ever have imagined.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Awesome, Micha is here too! 
Yeah, WoTC killed off all our accounts and the group. We can't even make Alts. They find them and kill them. 

I pass by the OTT and noticed you had posted. I tried to create an account to PM you, but it for killed immediately. 

I also noticed LFK posted over there. Someone should try to get a hold of him and bring him over here. I'm sure this place would be much more appreciative of his folding ideas stuff.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Cpt_Micha said:


> Hey guys. I just now came back... and found my account terminated and found that forum the most god awful mess I could ever have imagined.




Woot!  Glad ya made it ya NASCAR watchin' hillbilly!  We missed ya!


----------



## Cpt_Micha

Glad to see the OTTers are still here and about. Took a forum search to find you guys but totally worth the work.

What the hell are they doing at the wizards board? 

Like not even just OTT is dead over there, the whole friggin thing is.


----------



## Kramodlog

Cpt_Micha said:


> Hey guys. I just now came back... and found my account terminated and found that forum the most god awful mess I could ever have imagined.



Micha! Woot! I've sent you a invite to the group. Check the notifications at the top right of the page.


----------



## Kramodlog

Cpt_Micha said:


> Glad to see the OTTers are still here and about. Took a forum search to find you guys but totally worth the work.
> 
> What the hell are they doing at the wizards board?
> 
> Like not even just OTT is dead over there, the whole friggin thing is.



They suddenly needed to change the forums. Like an emergency. It was rushed and the forums were borked for a long time.


----------



## Jet Shield

The forums were already half-borked. They just finished the job.


----------



## Kramodlog

It is amazing how the traffic diminished after 2006.


----------



## darjr

It could have been because the old software had a serious security flaw that wasn't going to get fixed. Maybe. Just guessing here.


----------



## Cpt_Micha

I think they might have actually been trying to purge the forums completely for a while now. 
Why else would they continuously make the forums worse with each update? 

Know what's even better about this purge they did? 

We got a forum that's always had more traffic than their dirty boards heh. 

Checking page now.


----------



## Morrus

darjr said:


> It could have been because the old software had a serious security flaw that wasn't going to get fixed. Maybe. Just guessing here.




It happened to us earlier this year, after all!


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

darjr said:


> It could have been because the old software had a serious security flaw that wasn't going to get fixed. Maybe. Just guessing here.




It was mentioned somewhere that it was some licensing issue.


----------



## Kramodlog

The license issue is a rumour. WotC doesn't discuss in public anything.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Mad_Jack said:


> I sent him a pm...



Awesome, thanks!


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

Cpt_Micha said:


> Glad to see the OTTers are still here and about. Took a forum search to find you guys but totally worth the work.
> 
> What the hell are they doing at the wizards board?
> 
> Like not even just OTT is dead over there, the whole friggin thing is.




Hey Cap'n!
Glad you made it!


----------



## bone_naga

Looks like we've almost got the whole crew here now.


----------



## Cpt_Micha

Robin Hoodlum said:


> Hey Cap'n!
> Glad you made it!




Glad I did too man. Been way too long since I spent time with you crazies.


----------



## trappedslider

darjr said:


> It could have been because the old software had a serious security flaw that wasn't going to get fixed. Maybe. Just guessing here.




The previous message boards at WotC used ONESite (now SocialCore), which is a proprietary software that requires regular payments to use, while the current message boards are using Drupal, which is open source. An attempt to remove or lessen a money drain is more likely the reason for the change


----------



## PigKnight

Dirty frank is still unaccounted for. I might see him when the new diablo expansion pack comes out if he picks that up.


----------



## The_Silversword

Kool! Now that the gangs almost all here, what are we doing for Halloween?


----------



## Kramodlog

Get drunk and be lewd?


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Zombie virus? 
It didn't work out to well over at the WoTC firms, but the peeps here seem a lot more cool with that sort of thing.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> Get drunk and be lewd?




That's what we do on a daily basis


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Zombie virus?
> It didn't work out to well over at the WoTC firms, but the peeps here seem a lot more cool with that sort of thing.




That was almost a pretty fun time.  We should at least wear some costumes.


----------



## Kramodlog

Oh yeah, that might be very cool. We should PM Morrus and ask what he thinks about it.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Do it!!!!!!


----------



## Kramodlog

Umm... No. 

Why my people skills, I'll probably insult his mom, cat and pet cactus.


----------



## Grehnhewe

goldomark said:


> Umm... No.
> 
> Why my people skills, I'll probably insult his mom, cat and pet cactus.



That is ridiculous who keeps a cat as a pet?  What with the constant barfing, elitist attitude and venomous incisors, I will stick with cacti...they are so cuddly.


----------



## Kramodlog

Grehnhewe said:


> That is ridiculous who keeps a cat as a pet?  What with the constant barfing, elitist attitude and venomous incisors, I will stick with cacti...they are so cuddly.



Did I say his cat was a pet? And all of what you said about cats can also apply to me. You wouldn't keep me in your house?


----------



## Grehnhewe

goldomark said:


> Did I say his cat was a pet? And all of what you said about cats can also apply to me. You wouldn't keep me in your house?



it depends where you barf.


----------



## Kramodlog

Mostly in the toilet and on myself. Once, I woke up and I had barfed all over myself, but there was no trace of vomit on the floor. I'm not sure how I did, but it was pretty cool.


----------



## Grehnhewe

Skillz and pragmatism...bedding is expensive, but it might depend on what clothes you passed out in.


----------



## Kramodlog

Just regular drinking clothes.


----------



## Grehnhewe

That shows some professionalism...passing out in a parking lot in a new suit, not so much.


----------



## Kramodlog

Indeed. Asphalt is so not confortable. Someone lawn is the way to go.


----------



## Grehnhewe

...and a sprinkler is even more effective than an alarm clock.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> Umm... No.
> 
> Why my people skills, I'll probably insult his mom, cat and pet cactus.



I nominate ZB as resident PR guy for the OTTers.


----------



## Kramodlog

When I drink that much I can only sleep 4 or 5 hours. Dehydration wakes me up as my body overheats.


----------



## Kramodlog

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I nominate ZB as resident PR guy for the OTTers.



He would make an awesome ambassador. Negociate peace and unglog toilets at the same time!


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> He would make an awesome ambassador. Negociate peace and unglog toilets at the same time!




Exactly!


----------



## Zombie_Babies

goldomark said:


> Mostly in the toilet and on myself. Once, I woke up and I had barfed all over myself, but there was no trace of vomit on the floor. I'm not sure how I did, but it was pretty cool.




I was in a car one time on the way back from a rave with some peeps - it was a long drive.  The girl next to me asked the driver to pull over but the traffic was pretty bad and he was still messed up enough that he didn't hear her in time.  She puked all over her lap.  Somehow she didn't get a drop on his car seat.  It was pretty amazing.  Then she used her shirt to clean up and threw it out the window.  Ahh, them was the days ... I think.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I nominate ZB as resident PR guy for the OTTers.




I'm never here, bro.  Plus I've already gotten into a fight with a mod.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Zombie_Babies said:


> I'm never here, bro.  Plus I've already gotten into a fight with a mod.



Would you rather we nominate RH?


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Sure.  That'd be fun.  :-D


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Alright, RH is the OTTer PR guy. Are there any other organizations positions that need to be filled?


----------



## Zombie_Babies

We need us a new CHIA since he bailed.  I nominate micha since he's been absent a lot lately.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

I don't know if that will work. Micha is already the OTTer car-molester.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

True.  Silver, then?  He's sorta CHIA-y already.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

Very true. Okay, Silver is the new CHIA. Now we just need to replace the resident elephant, Draco.


----------



## Kramodlog

I think that will take a few posters to accomplish that. 

So RH is the ambassador. This should be something. I'll PM him to ask Morrus about the zombie-virus hallowwen special.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> I think that will take a few posters to accomplish that.
> 
> So RH is the ambassador. This should be something. I'll PM him to ask Morrus about the zombie-virus hallowwen special.




Great! I'm sure RH will be very cordial and persuade Morrus to go along with it. RH is a very likeable person.


----------



## The_Silversword

CHIA? me? Im not CHIAy at all! Oh god! thats something Chia would say.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Very true. Okay, Silver is the new CHIA. Now we just need to replace the resident elephant, Draco.




Hmm ... I don't know anyone that pulls that kind of weight.



goldomark said:


> I think that will take a few posters to accomplish that.




Too true.



> So RH is the ambassador. This should be something. I'll PM him to ask Morrus about the zombie-virus hallowwen special.




Sweet.  Let us know how diplomatically he responds.


----------



## calronmoonflower

Maybe I should revive my sig for Halloween?
[edit]
Looks like url bbcode is not allowed, so my zombies eat your brain is out and sigs are limited to one line.


----------



## Jeremy E Grenemyer

So let me get this straight: WotC had the resource lined up to do their first ever error-free forum reorg, but they used it all up figuring out how to ban you lot in perpetuity?

Is that like an OTTer Crowning Achievement?

Anywho, enjoy your new home. I hope it enjoys you too.


----------



## Grehnhewe

I like it here well enough, probably won't get gas-chambered either.


----------



## bone_naga

sanishiver said:


> So let me get this straight: WotC had the resource lined up to do their first ever error-free forum reorg, but they used it all up figuring out how to ban you lot in perpetuity?
> 
> Is that like an OTTer Crowning Achievement?
> 
> Anywho, enjoy your new home. I hope it enjoys you too.



Yeah, apparently so. They also refused to answer any sort of questions as to why. Some individuals had no mod history and many of us were rarely posting outside of our private group to avoid our ginger cyber-stalker.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

BONE!
Where you been?!


----------



## bone_naga

Robin Hoodlum said:


> BONE!
> Where you been?!



Keeping busy man. That seems to be the theme of late. However, I do have a project nearing completion that I will be posting about soon.


----------



## Kramodlog

I'm pretty sure you can't post pics of dead guys. Well you can, but you know...


----------



## PigKnight

bone_naga said:


> Yeah, apparently so. They also refused to answer any sort of questions as to why. Some individuals had no mod history and many of us were rarely posting outside of our private group to avoid our ginger cyber-stalker.



He even got me modded. Me! I don't do nuthin'.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

sanishiver said:


> So let me get this straight: WotC had the resource lined up to do their first ever error-free forum reorg, but they used it all up figuring out how to ban you lot in perpetuity?
> 
> *Is that like an OTTer Crowning Achievement?*
> 
> Anywho, enjoy your new home. I hope it enjoys you too.



No, it's a typical Tuesday.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

PigKnight said:


> He even got me modded. Me! I don't do nuthin'.



You did talk a lot about tomato sauce, and you know how he is about all those flashy condiments being used on food. he had to make a stand for bland.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

The worst part was that we had an understanding with Trevor.  That all went out the window.  What-evs.


----------



## bone_naga

Zombie_Babies said:


> The worst part was that we had an understanding with Trevor.  That all went out the window.  What-evs.



Yeah and if he was going to change that, he could have at least told us. Maybe something like "hey using the private group isn't enough anymore, you either have to clean it up or move out". Some people wouldn't have listened and would have gotten the boot, but at least they would know why, and the rest could have continued to use the forums (or not, considering how awful they turned out, I briefly made some alts over there but it just wasn't worth it).


----------



## Zombie_Babies

bone_naga said:


> Yeah and if he was going to change that, he could have at least told us. Maybe something like "hey using the private group isn't enough anymore, you either have to clean it up or move out". Some people wouldn't have listened and would have gotten the boot, but at least they would know why, and the rest could have continued to use the forums (or not, considering how awful they turned out, I briefly made some alts over there but it just wasn't worth it).




Yep, I would have been one to stick around, too ... at least for a bit.  I survived Gleemax and The White Doom so why not try, yanno?  They made that decision for me, heh.


----------



## Kramodlog

Yeah, they really managed to screw it upwith their boards. Two months later and they haven't improved.

As for the group, I'm not sure that was the problem. No one saw it. I think they just couldn't give IP bans with the other forum they had.


----------



## bone_naga

It doesn't matter anyway. In the past and stuff.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Yupyup.  We're here now and there's nothing we can do about what happened there.


----------



## Kramodlog

I still have nightmares.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

goldomark said:


> I still have nightmares.



Good!


----------



## Kramodlog

Hold me.


----------



## bone_naga

I'm here for you Goldo. I'll hold you, comfort you, and keep you from getting hypothermia


----------



## Kramodlog

Oooooh, those biceps. So reassuring.


----------



## Homicidal_Squirrel

/starts filming.


----------



## Robin Hoodlum

What about me? Don't I get hugs?
Nobody loves me.
Except my dog.
And he only because I give him cookies!
...
Anybody want some cookies?


----------



## Kramodlog

Go check the SW VII casting call thread.


----------



## calronmoonflower

I got the feeling from when I called customer service to find out why I couldn't log in, that costumer service itself has no idea why I got a ban.


----------



## Kramodlog

Poof!


----------



## bone_naga

I sent him a message.


----------



## Jeremy E Grenemyer

This should be interesting...


----------



## The_Silversword

IM starting to understand why we all got banned,


----------



## Kramodlog

Rampant antisemitism?


----------



## Zombie_Babies

goldomark said:


> Rampant antisemitism?




I didn't know Hasbro was owned by Disney.


----------



## The_Silversword

Its like this, one on one we're pretty cool, when a group of us get together, the police are going to get called.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

The_Silversword said:


> Its like this, one on one we're pretty cool, when a group of us get together, the police are going to get called.




Nah, we're just misunderstood.


----------



## Kramodlog

Story of my life.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

That Rudolph claymation movie has a part in it that's about us, I think.  Something about the Island of Misfit Internet Posters or something.


----------



## Kramodlog

The FX of that show have badly aged.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

goldomark said:


> The FX of that show have badly aged.




Bro, you can't compare those to the FX they use today.  They just didn't have the right tools.


----------



## Kramodlog

This would have helped.


----------



## The_Silversword

I think the fx has held up pretty well, all things considered, I mean they had to make all those dolls, and move them by hand, they didnt just punch some numbers into a computer, that took alot of time, and talent to pull off.


----------



## Kramodlog

Do you have proof of that?


----------



## The_Silversword

I'm sure theres a behind the scenes thing on the DVD.


----------



## Kramodlog

Leing lair taht leis¡


----------



## Zombie_Babies

The_Silversword said:


> I think the fx has held up pretty well, all things considered, I mean they had to make all those dolls, and move them by hand, they didnt just punch some numbers into a computer, that took alot of time, and talent to pull off.




Don't tell me ZB's gonna have to whip a .


----------



## The_Silversword

What did that smiley ever do to you?


----------



## Kramodlog

You're jealous?


----------



## Deset Gled

> Something about the Island of Misfit Internet Posters or something.




If I may take this in a slightly more serious direction: you are not like the Misfit Toys.  The toys were outcasts because they were rejected by society.  You were outcasts because you rejected society.  Those are two very different things.

If I had to summarize the root cause of why some people (i.e. me) found you most obtrusive when you came to ENWorld, it's because you expected us to conform to your social norms rather than you conforming to ours.  ENWorld is a long standing community with our own formal rules, etiquette, and informal traditions.  When you first showed up, you didn't just break societal norms, you generally refused to accept that they existed before you got here.  For more than a month, there was no attempt to assimilate into our culture, just a desire to find a new home for yours.  Every time someone posted that we should "join the OTTers" or something similar, it boiled my blood a bit because it was obvious you cared more about where you were from than where you were at.  You may have thought you were coming to ENWorld as refugees, but you really came across as invaders.

And, as an aside, I use the term "you" here to refer to all the OTT group.  And while that may be stereotyping, it's a stereotype that you started.  You came to the boards with a home-made label, so you can't be upset when other people use the label, too.

That being said, I think you all have come a long way at integrating.  It took some time, but most of you have actually become part of ENWorld.  Obviously, there have been varying degrees of success (with some people being lost along the way), and there's still some roughness around some edges, but I think you're on the right track.  There are some people who came here from OTT that I don't even recognize as being OTTers anymore.  You have been able to discuss things without devolving into mindless arguing, you found your own place to go for stuff that doesn't belong here, and you have started to learn when to let things go.

And that last point brings me to my thesis statement:  If you want to truly become part of this community, you're going to have to let a few more things go.  Stop thinking of yourselves as unfairly prosecuted Misfits.  You don't have to let go of your friends, but you do have to let go of your personal labels that only serve to separate you from others.

And most importantly *let this thread die*.  Seriously, stop bumping it.  Its only purpose at this point is to stand as some pillar to your self imposed martyrdom.  Keeping it at the top of the forum can only serve to identify yourselves as something other than ENWorlders, and maintain the fences that separate us.


----------



## Zombie_Babies

Deset Gled said:


> If I may take this in a slightly more serious direction: you are not like the Misfit Toys.  The toys were outcasts because they were rejected by society.  You were outcasts because you rejected society.  Those are two very different things.
> 
> If I had to summarize the root cause of why some people (i.e. me) found you most obtrusive when you came to ENWorld, it's because you expected us to conform to your social norms rather than you conforming to ours.  ENWorld is a long standing community with our own formal rules, etiquette, and informal traditions.  When you first showed up, you didn't just break societal norms, you generally refused to accept that they existed before you got here.  For more than a month, there was no attempt to assimilate into our culture, just a desire to find a new home for yours.  Every time someone posted that we should "join the OTTers" or something similar, it boiled my blood a bit because it was obvious you cared more about where you were from than where you were at.  You may have thought you were coming to ENWorld as refugees, but you really came across as invaders.
> 
> And, as an aside, I use the term "you" here to refer to all the OTT group.  And while that may be stereotyping, it's a stereotype that you started.  You came to the boards with a home-made label, so you can't be upset when other people use the label, too.
> 
> That being said, I think you all have come a long way at integrating.  It took some time, but most of you have actually become part of ENWorld.  Obviously, there have been varying degrees of success (with some people being lost along the way), and there's still some roughness around some edges, but I think you're on the right track.  There are some people who came here from OTT that I don't even recognize as being OTTers anymore.  You have been able to discuss things without devolving into mindless arguing, you found your own place to go for stuff that doesn't belong here, and you have started to learn when to let things go.
> 
> And that last point brings me to my thesis statement:  If you want to truly become part of this community, you're going to have to let a few more things go.  Stop thinking of yourselves as unfairly prosecuted Misfits.  You don't have to let go of your friends, but you do have to let go of your personal labels that only serve to separate you from others.
> 
> And most importantly *let this thread die*.  Seriously, stop bumping it.  Its only purpose at this point is to stand as some pillar to your self imposed martyrdom.  Keeping it at the top of the forum can only serve to identify yourselves as something other than ENWorlders, and maintain the fences that separate us.




Heh, and I see some of _you _still don't understand one important aspect of OTTer* posting: Sometimes we're just joking around.  

Honestly, I didn't mean that seriously. That particular line of discussion is one that I've personally been asked to kill and so I have.  My comment about us being 'misfits' was simply a joke and nothing more.  It fit the flow and was silly.  I mean really, did you think I really identify with some claymation rejects?  I'm 35 years old, man!  

Anyhoo, this ends ZB's public service announcement.  Sometimes in the course of internet discussion a joke is taken far more seriously than it was meant to be and that calls for a clarification.  We sincerely hope that you found this clarification both sensical and helpful and strongly encourage you to seek clarification in the future if you feel a need.  We here at ZB aim to please.  Thank you and have a wonderful Festivus with the restofus.
________

*Official disclaimer: Use of the term 'OTTer' was not intended to showcase a difference from the EW community and was only used as it was the term of choice in the quoted post.  It does not indicate that anyone here at ZB believes that they are different as that would run wholly contrary to what Morrus has asked us here at ZB to do.  The term is simply a useful shorthand at times and implies no disrespect when used in this manner.


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## Kramodlog

Testify, brother!


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## calronmoonflower

Looks like the off topic tavern has a deleted post by EscherEnigma, so he might have just found out he is banned.


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## Kramodlog

If you mean on the WotC boards, he has known for a while now. He emailed CS so they would remove the drawing he made for his avatar overthere. 

I'm guessing the phatom reproter strock again.


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## calronmoonflower

goldomark said:


> If you mean on the WotC boards, he has known for a while now.



If he has been banned for a while, how did he post?


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## Kramodlog

The poor quality of the WotC boards. All members of the group got banned, no matter what we did. We could all post once with our accounts on the WotC boards before the ban took affect. Seems EE didn't try back then.

This is how you managed to post that thread in the OTT under the gauntlet name, and I managed to tell you we were here before your thead got poofed.


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## calronmoonflower

goldomark said:


> The poor quality of the WotC boards. All members of the group got banned, no matter what we did. We could all post once with our accounts on the WotC boards before the ban took affect. Seems EE didn't try back then.



Actually I couldn't. My account was nuked strait up.



> This is how you managed to post that thread in the OTT under the gauntlet name, and I managed to tell you we were here before your thead got poofed.



No it is not. And I've already explained to you the sequence of events. I did that after my ban went into effect to try to find out what happened.


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## Kramodlog

WotC's boards hate you more. 

You started a thread with the title of an article as the title of the thread and the OP contained the word article that linked to the article.


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## calronmoonflower

goldomark said:


> WotC's boards hate you more.



Looks like it. Even customer service had no idea why I couldn't get on the boards after I called them and they took a few minutes to look it up. It took them a while after that to e-mail me the your banned because we say so and we do not have to tell you letter.



> You started a thread with the title of an article as the title of the thread and the OP contained the word article that linked to the article.



Oh gosh, that must mean you're right, because I only did that once. 

From what I gathered that was my second account your talking about, forgetting the info I already told you about what I had to do to make that account.


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## Kramodlog

Once? That is like 90% of your posts.

You did what you cause you forgot what you did when you did it?


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## calronmoonflower

goldomark said:


> Once? That is like 90% of your posts.



""



> You did what you cause you forgot what you did when you did it?



I remember taking several days off of even visiting WotC, let alone posting, before the change over. I only came back afterward and could not log in even I did, and had to called customer service because I thought the forum change nuked my account.


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## Kramodlog

calronmoonflower said:


> ""



Well, you certainly put me back in my place. 



> I remember taking several days off of even visiting WotC, let alone posting, before the change over. I only came back afterward and could not log in even I did, and had to called customer service because I thought the forum change nuked my account.



Well, be worried that a clone of you is roaming the WotC boards.


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## The_Silversword

So what did EE post? and are you sure it wasnt an older post?


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## calronmoonflower

goldomark said:


> Well, be worried that a clone of you is roaming the WotC boards.



No, you just made a error and refuse to admit it. Like when you said EE e-mailed CS while banned, which would require him to log in, which banned people cannot do. Thus is not possible.



The_Silversword said:


> So what did EE post? and are you sure it wasnt an older post?



I do not really know because they post itself was scrubbed, but the eccentricities of the board left it listed as the last post in the OTT in the D&D forum. See attachment.


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## Kramodlog

calronmoonflower said:


> No, you just made a error and refuse to admit it.



Really, cause his avatar is gone, as opposed to say ZB's avatar or Grehn. Are you saying they aren't banned?

Remember the posts EE made in the group are gone.



> Like when you said EE e-mailed CS while banned,



Or he called them, like you did...


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## calronmoonflower

goldomark said:


> Really, cause his avatar is gone, as opposed to say ZB's avatar or Grehn. Are you saying they aren't banned?



I was clearly speaking of your assertion that I posted one last time before my ban. You are wrong and that and refuse to admit it.



> Or he called them, like you did...



It could be that he found out about the nuke before he posted and manually removed his avatar. Whatever happened he did not e-mail while banned, and he certainly did not post 3 days ago while banned either. So it seems that once again important facts have escaped you.


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## Kramodlog

calronmoonflower said:


> I was clearly speaking of your assertion that I posted one last time before my ban.



You can change the subject all you want, it won't make you right.



> It could be that he found out about the nuke before he posted and manually removed his avatar.



No, he asked them. PM EE to see how right I am.



> Whatever happened he did not e-mail while banned,



I already suggested another course of action, no need to hammer emales.


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## The_Silversword

With the recent closure of the WotC forums I wonder if we'll see more refugees?


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## amerigoV

The_Silversword said:


> With the recent closure of the WotC forums I wonder if we'll see more refugees?




We need to take care of needy ENWorlders before we take in any more refugees, especially from there.


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