# Two Towers Protest Movement



## Ghostwind (Dec 12, 2002)

Just when you think folks can't be any more ignorant or stupid...

http://www.twotowersprotest.org/index.html


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## Enforcer (Dec 12, 2002)

Yeah, this has been brought up before. And it's still really, really stupid. Maybe if the book had been written post 9/11 you could have a semi-valid complaint...but obviously that's not the case here.


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## EricNoah (Dec 12, 2002)

Maybe I'm just cynical, but I smell tomfoolery.  This whole thing has got to be a joke.  It has the feel of satire, kind of like Bugaboo's GM Friend's Network page.


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## Ghostwind (Dec 12, 2002)

Eric, if it is a joke it is in really bad taste. From everything I discern from the site, it is real and it signifies a group of people who "really don't get it."


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## Airwolf (Dec 12, 2002)

All I can do is shake my head.

Some people's kids.


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## Dagger75 (Dec 12, 2002)

I think these people are serious.  I think THEY (http://www.twotowersprotest.org/index.html) are the ones that are captilizing on the events of Sept 11 2001.  This book was published in the 50's the movie was made durning the late 90's early 00's.  There website is very skimpy on what they want to accomplish other than changing the name of the title of a movie.


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## Victim (Dec 12, 2002)

I don't see how stripping out any possible reference to certain terrorist attacks in the name of sensitivity is a good thing.  Should we not record the attack the WTC in history books because it could offend the children of victims?


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## Morrus (Dec 12, 2002)

EricNoah said:
			
		

> *Maybe I'm just cynical, but I smell tomfoolery.  This whole thing has got to be a joke.  It has the feel of satire, kind of like Bugaboo's GM Friend's Network page. *




Oh, I get it.  Another dissatisfied customer who feels he didn't get his money's worth from the BGMFN and feels he has to slate them wherever possible.  Well, I'll have you know that many of us are perfectly happy with the service we receive!


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## Nightfall (Dec 13, 2002)

Some people just don't get it. Screw sensitivity. They are DEAD!! GET OVER IT!!! *sighs* Ignorance and stupidity always upset me.


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## Prince Atom (Dec 13, 2002)

> We believe that Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema's actions are in fact hate speech. The movie is intentionally being named The Two Towers in order to capitalize on the tragedy of September 11. Clearly, you cannot deny the fact that this falls under hate speech.




No, the movie is intentionally being named "The Two Towers" because the book it's based upon was named "The Two Towers."  There's no basis to complain that this is an intentional effort to capitalize on the events of last year.  The movie was essentially made before those things went down, anyway.

(Looks at the dead horse and guiltily drops the stick)

So what do they want it named as?  "Saruman's Major Whuppin'"?  These people seriously don't have a clue.  What "good things" has _The Lord of the Rings_ done, if I may ask?

If the title's going to ruin the movie for you, don't go see the movie.  The loss of your money is probably a bigger stick than some little petition.

TWK


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## Whodat (Dec 13, 2002)

*Spider sense… tingling.*

Something about this just doesn’t sound right. It doesn’t seem like this site is a part of a genuine fund-raising campaign. More like the site hints that they would be willing to “completely align itself with any fundraising our supporters would like to organize”. In other words, donations are cheerfully accepted.

I’ve got the sneaky suspicion that something shady is going on. It feels like someone is trying to cash in on those who are overly sensitive to coincidence. If you notice, the site has only been up since October 15, 2002. Kinda last minute, don’tcha think?

My question is: Once they’ve collected signatures and possible donations, what do they do with them?  I mean besides slip quietly into the shadows after the film is released.


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## WizarDru (Dec 13, 2002)

I think Eric meant that it was a joke, not a scam.  I mean, really now.


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## Ranger REG (Dec 13, 2002)

Uh, *Nightfall,* even I would find your response in poor taste as those who protested the title of the second _LOTR_ film.

I can only hope they will find the time to research this and reconsider their stance. If not, then I can only pity them. The second book by Tolkien have no bearing whatsoever to the awful 9/11 event.

If those protesters agree that's what the Al Qaeda thinking as a symbolic reference, then they're letting them win ... again.

Defy the terrorrists, do not live in fear, and go see the movie.


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## Mean Eyed Cat (Dec 13, 2002)

If I remember right, wasn't there a petition against this petition circulating around the net.  Does anybody remember where it is at?


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## Alaric_Prympax (Dec 13, 2002)

Mean Eyed Cat said:
			
		

> *If I remember right, wasn't there a petition against this petition circulating around the net.  Does anybody remember where it is at? *




Yes there was, I even signed that one- to keep the name of the movie "The Two Towers", I even saved the reply saying which number I was on the petition, but that was on another computer and unfortunately I don't have the link.  

Anyway it's obvious that these anti-TTT people are overly sensitive and/or have never read LotR in their lives; or they believe that Tolkien conspired with Arab terrorists about 50 years ago to upset Americans in the year 2002.  Who would have thought that?

Heck, I'd be offened if PJ didn't name the second move TTT.  IIRC he even said in an interview that Tolkien fans would crucify him if he didn't name it "The Two Towers", or was it lynched?


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## jdavis (Dec 13, 2002)

Petition to disagree with the two towers petition

http://www.petitiononline.com/TTrebuke/petition.html

Petition to keep the name of the movie two towers

http://www.petitiononline.com/lotr2/petition.html

The petition to ban the book two towers from the Library of congress has apparently disapeared.

tell you what the page with the nine petitons involving the two towers movie is here:

http://www.petitiononline.com/cgi-h...rmat=builtin-long;sort=score;words=two+towers

Funny but I couldn't find the petition the website refers to but I found a petition to remove that petition from circulation. 

Also wasn't the nickname of the World Trade Center the twin towers not the two towers.

For more fun with petitions try:

http://www.snopes.com/index.html

Just search for petitions, you will be suprised the stuff that is out there (snopes is the urban legends reference page.)


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## WizarDru (Dec 13, 2002)

Frylock rules.


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## Assenpfeffer (Dec 13, 2002)

Alaric_Prympax said:
			
		

> *Anyway it's obvious that these anti-TTT people are overly sensitive and/or have never read LotR in their lives; or they believe that Tolkien conspired with Arab terrorists about 50 years ago to upset Americans in the year 2002.  Who would have thought that?*




I think the word you're digging for is "morons."


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## Hand of Evil (Dec 13, 2002)

not going there.


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## Alaric_Prympax (Dec 13, 2002)

Assenpfeffer said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I think the word you're digging for is "morons." *




I believe you're right there in your choice of words.


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## JDragon (Dec 13, 2002)

Don't people have anything better to do with their time?

JDragon


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## Dr Midnight (Dec 13, 2002)

JDragon said:
			
		

> *Don't people have anything better to do with their time?
> *



He posted on the Dungeons & Dragons message board...


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## Henry (Dec 13, 2002)

Theatre of the Absurd, anyone?

As serious as the subject behind it is, why can't I stop grinning like an idiot when I read that page? I don't mean any disrespect, but that was without a doubt the funniest thing I've seen all day.

And I'VE just finished reading "A Lovecraft Christmas." This petition site tops even THAT!


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## thalmin (Dec 13, 2002)

FotR made a lot of money. TTT should also make a lot of money. New line Cinema made a lot of money. Protest the title, then file for class action damages and make a lot of money. Seems pretty clear to me.


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## VorpalBunny (Dec 13, 2002)

Nightfall said:
			
		

> *Some people just don't get it. Screw sensitivity. They are DEAD!! GET OVER IT!!! *sighs* Ignorance and stupidity always upset me. *




Not cool Nightfall, not cool at all.  I agree totally that the petition is misplaced and rooted in ignorance, but take it from someone that was there - some things are harder to "get over" than others.


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## jdavis (Dec 14, 2002)

You will be amazed at what people will do, and I really doubt there is any money to be made suing New line Cinema, or that this has anything to do with a actual movement, web petitions are a way people feel like they can make a difference, when in fact they are pretty worthless (any moron can generate their own, including plenty of people signing it, in minutes in Word).

What this is, is a grab for attention, somebody trying to make waves just to make them. The internet is a wonderful place for spouting off goofy crap and getting attention. Just check out the Snopes site for all the crazy stuff people will put out. Try this one out ;

"The President has asked that we unite for a common cause. Since the Islamic people cannot stand nudity, they consider it a sin to see a naked woman that is not their wife. Tonight at 7:00, all women should run out of their house naked to help weed out the terrorists. The United States appreciates your efforts, and applauds you. God bless America."

Yes there were people who actually believed this was true (if you read it on the internet it has to be true doesn't it.). If they believed this you can be sure they bought the Tolkien- terrorism link.

I love the snopes site, people can be so stupid.

http://www.snopes.com/index.html


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## jdavis (Dec 14, 2002)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> *Frylock rules. *




Thank you, once again suprised that so many people recognize him, Adult Swim is great.


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## KnowTheToe (Dec 14, 2002)

I agree with the ban.  The name is clearly offensive and calous.  I believe you all should ban the movie, that way I can have a better chance of getting a good seat at the theater.


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## Kip the Bold (Dec 14, 2002)

KnowTheToe said:
			
		

> *I agree with the ban.  The name is clearly offensive and calous.  I believe you all should ban the movie, that way I can have a better chance of getting a good seat at the theater. *




I second that...yep, everyone should stay away from the theatre in protest until they change that horribly offensive title, so I can see it a few dozen times in an empty stadium-seating theatre...ahhh, that would be nice


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## Dr Bunsen Honeydew (Dec 15, 2002)

*Possible alternate names for TTT?*

Those good burghers over at alt.fan.pratchett were discussing this topic earlier in the year, and came up with a number of possible titles that Peter Jackson could consider.

Although I cannot attribute these directly to individuals, a Google Groups search should find you the individuals who came up with each title.

And now for the list...

1) "A Tower, and yet another Tower"?
2)  'A Small Number of Tall Buildings'?
3) "The Three Towers, Of Which One Never Existed"?
4) "A Couple Of Very Long Bungalows On Their Sides"?
5) "One and Four Quarters Inside-Out Mine-Shafts"?
6) "The Bad, The Worse, and A Spare"
7) "The 2,000,000 bricks"
8) "The One With The Good Tower And The Bad Tower"?
9)  "The Good, The Bad and The Redundant"
10) "The Bad, The Worse, and A Spare"
11) "There And Back Again: A Tourist's Guide To Orthanc From Attic To Cellar"
12) Frodo & Sam's Excellent Adventure.
13) Frodo Baggins and the Nemisis's ring
14) Day of the Orcs.
15) Ringwars, Sauron strikes back.
16) Sam'll Kill Him If He Trys Anything
17) The Life of Frodo.
18) The Quest For The Evil Mountain.
19) The Hobbit Room
20) Sauron Inc.
21) Frodo, the Evil Mastermind Slayer.
22) The Hobbit King.
23) "Twin Peaks"? No, wait, that's been taken.
24) "Episode 2: Attack of the Orcs"
25) Dude, Where's My Ring?
26) Return Of The Urki    [read as a contraction of "Uruk-hai"]
27) It Sauron Way To Tipperary
28) Sauron In The Rain
29) Nazgul Down!
30) Meet Me In St Orthanc
31) Frodo's Eleven
32) Demolition Sam
33) Indiana Frodo and the Khazad of Dum
34) The Four Towers.  Clears up both the WTC "controversy" and the "yes, but *which* two towers?" controversy at the same time.
35) e to the power .6931 Towers

Feel free to add to the list...


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## Eternalknight (Dec 15, 2002)

LOL!!! Some of those are hilarious!


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## Mark (Dec 15, 2002)

Dr Bunsen Honeydew said:
			
		

> *Feel free to add to the list... *




_Don't mind if I do..._

Firstly, no list on the Intraweb would be complete without...

36. Bill Gate's Corporation of Evil: The Movie (and don't try to tell me differently)

Then there's something that mocks the writer...

37. Movie I Think Is Done Good

For the person who will see it everyday while in circulation...

38. The Reason I Took Out a Second Mortgage Movie

From the somewhat amusing...

39. A Couple of Very Tall Shacks

To the precognizant...

40. Best of the Three Films

From the fanatic...

41. Still No Bombadil! Movie

To the down-trodden...

42. The Movie My Kids Will Make Me See

From the savvy...

43. New Line Stock Holder's Second Favorite Movie

To the droll...

44. LotR: A Tower (viewed from same)

From the Freudian...

45. Double Phallic Mother Love Film

To the ambitious...

46. The Second Sequel before the Silmarillion Movie

From the ardent...

47. LotR: A Liv Tyler Vehicle

To the other half...

48. LotR: Vigo's Dream

From the ASPCA...

49. Those Had Better Be Faux-Wargs Movie

And for good measure...

50. LotR: NTBCWATETHHACATHNABSSTONFTWTCSINYNY*

*Not to be confused with a tragic event that happened half a century after Tolkien had named a book something similar to a nickname for the World Trade Center structures in New York, New York.

There, I'm spent...for now.


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## Mathew_Freeman (Dec 15, 2002)

I like Frodo and Sam's Excellent Adventure, myself. Because of course, then the final film could be called Frodo and Sam's Bogus Journey.


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## Dagger75 (Dec 15, 2002)

As a small serious note, what about all the other movies with Tower in the name.  I did a quick IMDB seach for the word tower and got about 80 hits.

 Some offensive titles the www.twotowersprotest.org/index.html 
should consider

 The Towering Inferno

 The Tower of Terror plus the ride at MGM here in Florida

 These 2 sound worse than the Two Towers.


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## jdavis (Dec 16, 2002)

Going after old movies would be too hard and wouldn't get enough attention, you know if the first movie had tanked and this one wasn't so hyped I bet they would of never complaned. I mean really, how many movies with terrorist trying to blow up buildings or hijacking airplanes are there, it's a common theme but nobody goes all crazy on them, they are intentionally misrepresenting this movie's name to try to get the spotlight. It's all a part of the wonderful age of the internet, where every wacko gets a soapbox to the world.


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## Enforcer (Dec 16, 2002)

As stupid as this protest is, I must say that the dumbest thing I've ever seen on the Internet is saveykaryn.com or whatever the hell that is. "Oh no, I spent all my money! I know, idiots will help me if I make a webpage! Yay!"


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## Quickbeam (Dec 16, 2002)

Airwolf said:
			
		

> *All I can do is shake my head.
> 
> Some people's kids. *




That about sums it up for me.  Well said Airwolf!


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## JRRNeiklot (Dec 17, 2002)

For those of you slamming Nightfall for not being politically correct, I'm afraid I agree with him.  We've all lost people close to us.  If your grandmother choked to death while regurgitating fish, would you protest Douglas Adams' "So long and Thanks for all the Fish?"

Get over it.

Edit:  I didn't mean for the above to sound snottish.  If it came across as such, I apologize.


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## Zappo (Dec 17, 2002)

Check out today's PvP about this topic.


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## Darkness (Dec 18, 2002)

Henry said:
			
		

> *
> 
> And I'VE just finished reading "A Lovecraft Christmas." This petition site tops even THAT! *



Where? That's surely damn cool!


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## gregweller (Dec 18, 2002)

http://www.santafe.edu/~shalizi/cthulhu-hymnal/a-lovecraft-christmas.html


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## Alaric_Prympax (Dec 18, 2002)

Zappo said:
			
		

> *Check out today's PvP about this topic. *




LOL!!!


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## WSmith (Dec 19, 2002)

> We believe that Peter Jackson and New Line Cinema's actions are in fact hate speech. The movie is intentionally being named The Two Towers in order to capitalize on the tragedy of September 11. Clearly, you cannot deny the fact that this falls under hate speech. We believe that if they will not willingly change the name, the government should step in to stop the movie's production or to force a name change.




Hate speech! HATE SPEECH! I bet this is the same kook who had a website some years back claiming Tolkien to be a racist, because the Haradrim, or the "races to the south and east who serve Sauron"  were described as having darker skin than those men of he north, HENCE since Sauron was evil that those of darker skin were evil according to Tolkien!?!?!   

BUNK, I SAY!!! 

Not to mention, the Two Towers predates the construction of the WTC by ABOUT 20 YEARS!!!! What, did JRR stare into the Palantir and say, "a terrible tragady will happen 50+ years from now, and I can capitalize on it by calling the book the Two Towers." 

Man I need some of the good old Nutkinland Smiles to express my opinion on this one.


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## Victim (Dec 19, 2002)

Even if it was an attempt to capitalize on the diaster, I don't see how that would be hate speech.

But hate speech stuff is just an attack on the bill of rights anyway.


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## jgbrowning (Dec 19, 2002)

Well, i think we should start a web site devoted to calling it Sept. Eleven. 

11    looks a bit to much like two towers to me......


joe b.


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## Mark (Dec 19, 2002)

By that logic we should also move any memorial services out of New York, since "NY, NY" is a vague reminder of two similar things next to one another...


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## jgbrowning (Dec 19, 2002)

Mark said:
			
		

> *By that logic we should also move any memorial services out of New York, since "NY, NY" is a vague reminder of two similar things next to one another...  *




Here, Here, my good man!  That! is an idea!

"that which occured which should be unamed"  hrm.. nice ring to it....

joe b.


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## DWARF (Dec 19, 2002)

I must also come to Nightfall's defense.  True, it may be harsh but despite the sentiments' packaging, the sentiment is true.  Tragedies happen and we will grieve for a time.  But life must go on.  

My Grandfather recently died in a highway car collision.  Does that mean I should crusade to abolish car accidents in movies, to deny my loss?  No.

I think George Bernard Shaw put it best, "Life does not cease to be funny when people die any more than it ceases to be serious when people laugh."


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## Rashak Mani (Dec 20, 2002)

Sad that people waste so much effort protesting stuff like this... especially when they should be protesting what politicians are doing.... 

    Movies are always easy targets for criticism.


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## The It's Man (Dec 20, 2002)

_from their website



			The name (...) will undoubtedly cause a return of the emotions felt on Sept 11th which left so many people in the nation feeling stunned and in a state of shock.
		
Click to expand...



Shouldn't they have named their protest movement "A Tower, and yet another Tower"-protest... or something like that?_


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## Welverin (Dec 21, 2002)

The It's Man said:
			
		

> *from their website
> 
> 
> Shouldn't they have named their protest movement "A Tower, and yet another Tower"-protest... or something like that? *



_

Again with the logic! What's wrong with you people!_


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## Brudewollen (Dec 21, 2002)

As expected, the protest "movement" has failed - LotR:TT took in $26 million in its first day, the biggest December opening ever!  And the only ones to really notice this "movement" are those of us who ridicule its existance (I saw an article in some Brit magazine making fun of the petition, too - they quoted some of funnier responses to it, both for and against this silliness).  

By the way, how many people have to actually join something before it can actually be called a "movement?"  50, 100, 1000?  I dunno - whatever it is, I'm guessing this group doesn't have the numbers.


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## jdavis (Dec 22, 2002)

I think the person suceeded in his goal, people went to his site and saw his name, he was trying to get his 15 minutes and if he made some papers and a magazine or two then he got what he was truely after. Besides he can always say he meant well, it's not like he took a stand on eating babies, probably why he picked that topic, he might of come off as silly or misguided but he definatly can claim patriotism, I'm sure he told everybody he knew to check out his website to see what a good patriot he was. The actual petition was so stupid that I can't even see where the people who wrote it could take it serious, but it did grab some attention for some people.


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## Dr Bunsen Honeydew (Dec 22, 2002)

WSmith said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Hate speech! HATE SPEECH! I bet this is the same kook who had a website some years back claiming Tolkien to be a racist, because the Haradrim, or the "races to the south and east who serve Sauron"  were described as having darker skin than those men of he north, HENCE since Sauron was evil that those of darker skin were evil according to Tolkien!?!?!
> 
> ...




Once again I offer a post off the alt.fan.pratchett group, this time from "Diane L." [the circumstances: alt.fan.tolkien had crossposted a quote (taken out of context) by Terry Pratchett, launching a number of flames and trolls both from and at both groups. "Flame of the West" was one of the main instigators  from AFT, "Rocky" a quick-tempered denizen of AFP. I've included the whole post, because it's pretty funnny]. The main thrust of the post (is tolkien evil?) happens about halfway down. Enjoy.

The seas boiled, the skies fell, and Diane L. said:

> "Flame of the West" <jsolinasNoSpam@erols.com> wrote in message news:3D5BC8DB.2A3CCE6F@erols.com...
>> "Diane L." wrote:
>>
>>> Rocky was referring to himself. Being, as he is, well struck in years, and a personal friend of Terry Pratchett.
>>
>> That foul-mouthed troll is a personal friend of Pratchett??!
>
> Foul-mouthed? I've heard (and read) much worse, but I suppose if you're very easily offended you might make that one stick.

"Oooh!  Ooooh!  Miss!  *He* said the *F-word*!"

>
> Troll? You're on shakier ground here, unless you're using the word in the juvenile sense of 'anyone who doesn't agree with me'.

Along with the time-honoured definition of "fascist" - "anyone who says that I can't do exactly what I please".

>Unless you've seen Rocky starting a cross-posted thread to aft accusing Tolkien of various wrongdoings based on very tenuous evidence?

Who cares?  Tolkien was really a mole planted by the Nazis anyway.  A real professor of English would never have slipped on the plural of "dwarf" - his cover begins to slip already –and dwarfs who love gold are an invention of German folklore.

Then, The Hobbit, with its theme of the bucolic Hobbit (read: Englishman) joining with the dwarfs (read: Germans) to fight a monster in the east (read: Russia, or possibly the annexation of the Balkans, where dragons are common in heraldry).  In the west they encounter some trolls easily defeated by taking advantage of their factionalisation and decadent love of food (read: the French), and in the east they find dark-skinned subhuman creatures (Blacks), effeminate elves (gays), and a culture of money grabbing men who interfere with the dwarfs quest to regain their true place in the world (Jews).  Clearly, The Hobbit is Nazi propaganda of the most insidious kind,
intended to turn British children into Mosleyites.

The Lord of the Rings follows on from this, as the truly wise join with Sauron/Hitler and the armies of men are powerless against him.  This is especially evil in light of the fact that JRRT was sending chapters of this Hitlerian fable to his own son in the forces during the war.  When Hitler was defeated, however, Tolkien took the opportunity to butter his bread on both sides by writing a more Allied-friendly ending.

Is there no end to Tolkien's despicable swastika-waving evil?

--
"Pack it in, you're acting like kids."
"Well, he started it!"


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