# Only in America



## Bullgrit (Mar 7, 2014)

The American themed party thread brings this to mind. Apparently the red plastic cup is an American thing, not seen "in the wild" (as someone said) in other countries.

Several years ago, I was entertaining a Swedish coworker visiting the US. While out driving, she spotted a yellow school bus. She mentioned that was the first one she'd ever seen in person. She'd seen them only on American TV and movies.

What other things -- *things*, not actions, thoughts, beliefs, etc. -- do you non-Americans commonly see in American TV/movies/photos that aren't common (or existant) in your own country? (Can we avoid jingoism? Please.)

Bullgrit


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## Morrus (Mar 7, 2014)

Well, most everything. Western countries are similar on the large scale, but the small details are radically different in pretty much every way you can imagine.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 7, 2014)

Obesity. Not that we do not have fat people here, but when I go to the US the quantity of fat people is surprising. 

Flags. We have some here, but, again, the quantity of flags that hang everywhere is surprising.

I was talking with a girl from Hong Kong last weekend. What I realized was that even when your poor in North America, you still can eat meat in the form of ground beef. Eating meat, and lots of it, is not that universal.


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## Bullgrit (Mar 7, 2014)

Morrus said:
			
		

> Western countries are similar on the large scale, but the small details are radically different in pretty much every way you can imagine.



Well, yes, I know that. I'm asking what small details stand out to you. 

Some things I suspect are much less common outside the US, but are common in American media: pick up trucks, pizza, beer in a can.

Bullgrit


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## Janx (Mar 7, 2014)

what other color would you use for a school bus?

Not to sound Americanist, but really.  it's yellow for a reason.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 7, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> Well, yes, I know that. I'm asking what small details stand out to you.
> 
> Some things I suspect are much less common outside the US, but are common in American media: pick up trucks, pizza, beer in a can.
> 
> Bullgrit



Beer cans are rather common in Europe. In Belgium they even have vending machines filled with beer cans. It is not rare to see people hang around those vending machines after bar close.


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## Morrus (Mar 7, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> Well, yes, I know that. I'm asking what small details stand out to you.
> 
> Some things I suspect are much less common outside the US, but are common in American media: pick up trucks, pizza, beer in a can.




No, they're all common. Well, maybe not pickup trucks, but beer cans and pizza are ubiquitous.

OK, I'll try a list:

school system
mailboxes
school buses
american football
flags everywhere
currency
food
yellow cabs
proms
sororities and the other thing
car brands
waiter/waitress service in bars
tipping
commercial frequency

OK, sorry,  I got bored!  A thousand other things too!


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## Morrus (Mar 7, 2014)

Janx said:


> what other color would you use for a school bus?
> 
> Not to sound Americanist, but really.  it's yellow for a reason.




My school bus was a regular old red bus when I was a kid.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 7, 2014)

You took an NYC tourist bus to school?  

A pizza can get to your house faster than an ambulance
An escalator up to the gym.
Creationism taught as a science

there was a whole humor list of things that make you shake your head.
Other notes all go to political criticism, which I will avoid bringing up this time.


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## Janx (Mar 7, 2014)

Morrus said:


> My school bus was a regular old red bus when I was a kid.
> 
> View attachment 60893




Huh.  I always assumed those double-deckers were for public transport.  Heck, those double-deckers aren't regular in any way to the US.

In the US, my understanding is, the yellow school bus is yellow because it's disitinctive (other colors would work), and its synonymous with School Bus.

In practical terms, there are no other busses on the road that color that are not also School Buses (unless it's a used/repurposed bus).  The color yellow on a bus means "Kids Inside.  Be Careful."

Are the buses in England colored to mean certain things?


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## Janx (Mar 7, 2014)

Our yellow school  buses also have more clearance than that red double-decker (which probably rides low to compensate for the added height)

Nobody's gonna get wedged under our school buses   Or scrape bottom on a bad road.


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## Bullgrit (Mar 7, 2014)

Morrus said:
			
		

> No, they're all common. Well, maybe not pickup trucks, but beer cans and pizza are ubiquitous.



Interesting. I don't think I've ever seen beer in a can in any non-American media. It's either bottles or glasses/mugs/steins.



> OK, I'll try a list:
> 
> school system
> mailboxes
> ...



Really? Only America has the above very general categories? Schools, currency, food, cars? If you want to be unhelpful in a discussion, why bother posting in it?

Are there some things in the above list that aren't just "same thing, only with an American label or American look" (like currency, car brands)? Or, if you consider this discussion worthless and stupid, feel free to not respond.


Bullgrit


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## Morrus (Mar 7, 2014)

Janx said:


> Huh.  I always assumed those double-deckers were for  public transport.  Heck, those double-deckers aren't regular in any way  to the US.




They get chartered by schools, too.  Schools don't tend to own buses.



Janx said:


> The color yellow on a bus means "Kids Inside.  Be Careful."




I think you're supposed to be careful all the time here.



> Are the buses in England colored to mean certain things?




No. Just different bus companies.  Red's popular, but there are blue ones and green ones and stuff.  Here's a blue one from a local bus company:


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## Morrus (Mar 7, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> Really? Only America has the above very general categories? Schools, currency, food, cars?




Obviously not, as you well know.  The nature of them is different.



> If you want to be unhelpful in a discussion, why bother posting in it?
> Or, if you consider this discussion worthless and stupid, feel free to not respond.




Bullgrit, please watch your attitude.  I was attempting to help answer your question; I will not do so now. This isn't the first time you've done this, either.


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 7, 2014)

I thought Morrus' list was a good one.  I mean, I'm American so I can't really say what's different about here but I have been to other countries (not many) so I _can _note some things I saw as 'missing'.  The easiest one for me to recall is the cab thing.  Where I live we don't have a lot of cabs but most cabs are yellow and most are Ford Crown Victorias.  When I was in Greece, though, I saw a lot of Skodas and Mercs.  They were typically black.  Interesting, IMO.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 7, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> I thought Morrus' list was a good one.  I mean, I'm American so I can't really say what's different about here but I have been to other countries (not many) so I _can _note some things I saw as 'missing'.  The easiest one for me to recall is the cab thing.  Where I live we don't have a lot of cabs but most cabs are yellow and most are Ford Crown Victorias.  When I was in Greece, though, I saw a lot of Skodas and Mercs.  They were typically black.  Interesting, IMO.



Did they have taximeters? I was confused and afraid to get swindle as in the Netherlands you negociate your the fee before you get into the cab.


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## pedr (Mar 7, 2014)

(scooped - got distracted while posting & the thread's moved on!)


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## delericho (Mar 7, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Flags. We have some here, but, again, the quantity of flags that hang everywhere is surprising.




That's a really good one. Whenever I've been to the US, the flag seems to be _everywhere_. Over here, I'm unlikely to see two flags in a day.



Janx said:


> what other color would you use for a school bus?




Our "school buses" are just buses. So they're whatever colour the company's fleet uses.

Inter-school sports is something that seems to be big in the US, and pretty much doesn't exist here. Though I obviously can't say it's only in America!


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## Dioltach (Mar 7, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Did they have taximeters? I was confused and afraid to get swindle as in the Netherlands you negociate your the fee before you get into the cab.




No you don't, there's a taximeter in each cab.

(That's not to say that there haven't been problems with taxi drivers swindling or threatening their fares, but that isn't the norm.)


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## nerfherder (Mar 7, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Obesity. Not that we do not have fat people here, but when I go to the US the quantity of fat people is surprising.



Yes, that stood out to me when I first went to Gencon.


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 7, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Did they have taximeters? I was confused and afraid to get swindle as in the Netherlands you negociate your the fee before you get into the cab.




I think there was but I can't remember.  All I know was that it cost about 45 to 50 euro to get anywhere we wanted to go.    Honestly, though, when we traveled by cab we typically went pretty far.  Anywhere from where we were on Corfu to anywhere else was a hike and on the mainland we only took a cab from Athens airport to the Athens Gate hotel - a decent distance.


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 7, 2014)

nerfherder said:


> Yes, that stood out to me when I first went to Gencon.




Just a note: Gen Con is hardly a representative sample.


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## Dioltach (Mar 7, 2014)

Only in the US is a polo shirt considered acceptable business wear.


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## Tonguez (Mar 7, 2014)

"Y'all" - remember meeting a girl who used the word "Y'all" in a natural way and exclaimed "wow thats the first time I've heard that from a real person

Amish - I've visited Pennsylvania

Cheerleaders - yes they stand out as very American

Commercialism - lots of advertising, billboards and signage

Canned food - the variety of things that came in cans suprised me (eg canned cheese only went on sale here 2 years ago)

Drive by shootings - yes saw one whilst visiting in Compton.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 7, 2014)

Tonguez said:


> "Y'all" - remember meeting a girl who used the word "Y'all" in a natural way and exclaimed "wow thats the first time I've heard that from a real person



To be fair, its pretty strange in parts of the U.S. to hear that. I live in Miami, and I have rarely heard anyone say "Ya'll." When I have, it's usually from out of state people.
Years ago when I worked at a movie theater, I had some guy who was going to watch a movie ask me where he could get some "tars." I had no idea. He kept on telling me he needed four new tars. Finally I realized he was asking about tires. Why he would ask someone working in a movie theater where to get tires I have no idea.


> Cheerleaders - yes they stand out as very American



It must suck to watch sports outside of the U.S.


> Canned food - the variety of things that came in cans suprised me (eg canned cheese only went on sale here 2 years ago)



What's canned cheese?



> Drive by shootings - yes saw one whilst visiting in Compton.



You were in Compton, and you only witnessed one? Consider yourself lucky.


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## nerfherder (Mar 7, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> Just a note: Gen Con is hardly a representative sample.




True, but I never saw so many obese people at Gen Con in the UK.


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## nerfherder (Mar 7, 2014)

Bullgrit said:


> What other things -- *things*, not actions, thoughts, beliefs, etc. -- do you non-Americans commonly see in American TV/movies/photos that aren't common (or existant) in your own country?




Soup & Salad restaurants.

I thought it was weird, until I ate in one and enjoyed it.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 7, 2014)

nerfherder said:


> Yes, that stood out to me when I first went to Gencon.




Yeah, but that was a con. There's a thing with typical sci-fi fans around here... And people who eat "Farm-sized" breakfasts even when they don't work like old-time farmers.

Anyway, Con-goers aren't typical US citizens.
On the other hand, yeah, it's become a lot more noticeable in the last 25 years


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## Kramodlog (Mar 7, 2014)

Dioltach said:


> No you don't, there's a taximeter in each cab.
> 
> (That's not to say that there haven't been problems with taxi drivers swindling or threatening their fares, but that isn't the norm.)



Was I that high or did it change since I was last there?


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 7, 2014)

Tonguez said:


> "Y'all" - remember meeting a girl who used the word "Y'all" in a natural way and exclaimed "wow thats the first time I've heard that from a real person




We say it 'round these parts to poke fun at those what actually say it in them other parts.



> Amish - I've visited Pennsylvania




They're in other places as well but yeah, American as whatever.



> Cheerleaders - yes they stand out as very American




Hmm ... I had assumed that'd be more universal.  Interesting.



> Commercialism - lots of advertising, billboards and signage




How else ya gonna get paid, son?! 



> Canned food - the variety of things that came in cans suprised me (eg canned cheese only went on sale here 2 years ago)




I've never even seen canned cheese.  One thing about America: Plenty of us are irredeemable savages but plenty of us aren't, too.



> Drive by shootings - yes saw one whilst visiting in Compton.




Not distinctly American.  Hell, there are countries that this happens in a lot more often.



nerfherder said:


> True, but I never saw so many obese people at Gen Con in the UK.




Ah!  Point to you, sir!


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## Kramodlog (Mar 7, 2014)

Does this exist outside the US?


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 7, 2014)

Y'all? Isn't that part of a ship?

I've been to areas where the language spoken was very strange. My mother one time had to point to what she wanted on the menu because the waitress at the diner and she couldn't understand each other. OK, that was Texas, but that was still (in theory) English. For fun, I refer you to "Why can't the English Teach their Children How to Speak?", "The Silly Slang Song", and "The Keltie Klippie".  (My Fair Lady, I recommend the Geraldine Doyle version, and North Sea Gas if you need sources)

Language and accents are funny. Everyone seems to think native californians speak like surfers or valley girls. One person I met from the mid-west trained herself in valley-speak for when she moved out here. (very sad--I was never able to take her seriously because she sounded like a sorority chick). People ask where I'm from, and don't believe me. I've been accused of being from Brittain, England, Scotland, Ireland, Germany, Australia, Back East, Up North, and The South (huh?!?!?!?). I guess it was too much BBC and Celtic Music.


Getting back on track, considering the US has produced such fine products as "Meat-Wizz" (like cheese-wizz or spray on cheese, only with (mystery) meat--I kid you not), I don't think we're in a position to claim any glory. Probably the only thing more disgusting than Marmite.

I don't think anyone else produced easy riser ladders for geriatric pets to get onto beds/couches.

In spite of ample evidence that it doesn't work, USA continues several Prohibition laws.

I can name only one other country that refuses to figure out how to incorporate homosexuality into military regs.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 7, 2014)

Hmm ... here are a couple my Norwegian friends have commented on in the rural bit of PA I currently frequent:

- Churches.  We have a massive number and variety of churches in small towns compared to their experience.

- Giant slabs of burned meat at restaurants.

- Guns & gun shows.

- Cheap automobiles, especially luxury brands like BMW & Mercedes (though I suspect this isn't "only in America")

- Football as religion.

- Competitive kid's sports (vice participative kids sports).

- Horses & buggies on the streets (Amish country).

- Obsession with alcohol but yet taboos against drinking; blue laws.

- All the cars with only one occupant.

- Pickup trucks & SUVs everywhere.

- Local police.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 8, 2014)

are Helicopter Parents US only, or are they global now?


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 8, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> are Helicopter Parents US only, or are they global now?



That's a global thing, though the name may be a USian thing.


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## EscherEnigma (Mar 8, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> We say it 'round these parts to poke fun at those what actually say it in them other parts.



I say "howdy" and "y'all" un-ironically.



> I've never even seen canned cheese.  One thing about America: Plenty of us are irredeemable savages but plenty of us aren't, too.



I was gonna say me neither, but then someone posted the picture of cheeze whiz.  I had actually forgotten that's a thing.  Perhaps for a good reason.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 8, 2014)

EscherEnigma said:


> I say "howdy" and "y'all" un-ironically.



THat's because unlike you, ZB is a hipster.


> I was gonna say me neither, but then someone posted the picture of cheeze whiz.  I had actually forgotten that's a thing.  Perhaps for a good reason.



Is that what "canned cheese" is? Huh... I've never heard it called that.


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## EscherEnigma (Mar 8, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Is that what "canned cheese" is? Huh... I've never heard it called that.



Perhaps because by not calling it "cheese" we can separate it from what it's a twisted mockery of and overlook a monstrosity of unnatural proportion it really is.

You know, like how real newborns are almost never depicted because people don't want to think about the fact they come out screaming and covered in blood.  Pregnancy seems so much nicer when you just see smiling mommy wheeled off into the maternity wing and then cut to mommy and daddy crooning over their not-newborn baby.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

I realize those who do not state where they are for personal reasons, And I have no qualms at all about that.

Having said that, those who have not listed where they are, I was wondering, for those outside of the USA, if you would honor the nosy old fart, me, and say where you are? Please? and thank you in advance. It is only a matter of curiosity.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 8, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> I realize those who do not state where they are for personal reasons, And I have no qualms at all about that.
> 
> Having said that, those who have not listed where they are, I was wondering, for those outside of the USA, if you would honor the nosy old fart, me, and say where you are? Please? and thank you in advance. It is only a matter of curiosity.



No! Never!!!


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> No! Never!!!




*snort* I have no idea where Miami would be.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 8, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> *snort* I have no idea where Miami would be.



Most people that don't live in South Florida have no idea where Miami is. In fact, most people think all of South Florida is Miami. People are dumb.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

I was born in Los Angles, and stationed in the Mojave Desert. I had someone try and tell me Los Angles starts at the ocean and spreads all the way to the Nevada state line. Yeah, right.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 8, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> I was born in Los Angles, and stationed in the Mojave Desert. I had someone try and tell me Los Angles starts at the ocean and spreads all the way to the Nevada state line. Yeah, right.



I'm telling you, people are dumb. Especially tourist. Especially American tourist. I saw some tourist from Ohio get heir car towed for not paying the valet and parking fee. They decided they would park in a private parking lot that required you pay. They got upset when the tow-truck hooked up their car. Their excuse was that they were from Ohio, and they don't pay people to park their car. I'm pretty sure they paid far more than the parking fee when they went to get their car released.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 8, 2014)

USians tourist I met in Europe were rather stereotypical. In the youth hostels they wouldn't talk to anyone or mingle. Like they were afraid of all of us evil foreigners. They stuck to frozen pizza and McDonald's when it came to food. Couldn't hold their liquor. They really stood out. 

I am from glorious nation Québeckistan, by the way.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 8, 2014)

goldomark said:


> USians tourist I met in Europe were rather stereotypical. In the youth hostels they wouldn't talk to anyone or mingle. Like they were afraid of all of us evil foreigners. They stuck to frozen pizza and McDonald's when it came to food. Couldn't hold their liquor. They really stood out.
> 
> I am from glorious nation Québeckistan, by the way.



Your kind are some of the worst tourists we get down here.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 8, 2014)

There are collections of dumb travelers' stories out there. My mother was a travel agent for 20 years. Here's one of my favorites. Back in 1983, a woman was upset that my mother wouldn't let her drive from England to France. (remember, the chunnel didn't exist in 1983--it was little more than a pipe dream (sorry, I couldn't resist. OK, I could have, but didn't want to)). Her next question was whether or not there was any fruit in France, or should she bring some with her.
The kicker: She was a Geography Teacher!!!
Really, really said something about the quality of the public schools in CA.


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## EscherEnigma (Mar 8, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> I was born in Los Angles, and stationed in the Mojave Desert. I had someone try and tell me Los Angles starts at the ocean and spreads all the way to the Nevada state line. Yeah, right.



... is it wrong that my first thought was "China Lake, Edwards or Vegas?"


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

RE: school bus color.

For the longest time, ours were aquamarine,

RE: Americans as bad tourists.

My most recent trip outside the USA was to Moscow & St. Petersburg, and I had a blast sampling the local fare.  Especially enlightening was the tour of the Razin Brewery in Moscow, which had been bought by Heiniken just 2 weeks prior.  As part of the tour, our group was taken to an executive boardroom, where each person was seated at a place set with a bottle of _each beer Razin made._  We sampled all 14 or so.

Did I mention this tour was between breakfast and lunch?

Anywho, I was more typical of that group than the cuisinophobes who sometime venture abroad.  And in fact, we had 2 with us.  A father & daughter- both adults- brought an entire large suitcase of trail mix, granola bars and the like, and ate from it almost exclusively over the first half of the trip.

They have no idea what they missed out on.

RE: things we have here (or in certain areas here) that are uncommon elsewhere.

Drive through restaurants
Drive through liquor stores
Drive through daiquiri shops
Liquor stores
Powdered drink mixes
Portable powdered or liquid drink mixes
Mayonnaise!
Ketchup!
Peanut Butter!
Buffets...at nearly every level of the dining experience, for nearly every cuisine
Free-standing food courts
2+ car garages
Car culture: low-riders, monster trucks, 
Empty spaces
Contrarian landscaping: we make the deserts bloom, build megahouses on cliffsides, we make arificial beaches & reefs, the cold places hot, the hot places cold, etc., just to live there the way we want to live.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 8, 2014)

EscherEnigma said:


> ... is it wrong that my first thought was "China Lake, Edwards or Vegas?"




or Ft Irwin, 29 Palms, or Yermo.


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## Joker (Mar 8, 2014)

Taking an ambulance ride costs a thousand dollars.

Ubiquitous air-conditioning.

Everyone has a car.  Everyone.

Enormous diversity of nature and great open spaces.

Malls.  They exist in other places but I remember there being a mall or a large outlet in nearly every largish town in MN.

Everything in the States is just a couple sizes larger.  The cars, the roads, sidewalkes, portions, backyards, school sports.  

I miss Mall of America.  I remember there was a hooters next to an arcade at the top floor.  I wonder if it's still there.

Danny, everyone has mayo, ketchup and peanut butter.  It's just that the American versions taste different.  Like, I understand why you wouldn't drown your fries in that .... different.


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## Hussar (Mar 8, 2014)

I asked a couple of students who just came back from living in Tennessee what they found most surprising. The older sister was shocked that you had choices in the school lunch cafeteria and everyone could eat different food. The younger brother was shocked by gun sales at Walmart.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

> Danny, everyone has mayo, ketchup and peanut butter. It's just that the American versions taste different. Like, I understand why you wouldn't drown your fries in that .... different.




I'm very particular about fries.  Peculiar, too.

Generally speaking, I prefer just salt on mine.  But, I have sodium-dependent hypertension, so sometimes my fries don't get any NaCl.  Depending on how they're fried, I may also eat them with:

1) lemon juice with black pepper
2) malt vinegar- the Brits really did get that one right
3) chili & cheese
4) dipping them in a mix of 50% yellow mustard, 50% A-1 steak sauce, seasoned with black pepper & Tabasco to taste
5) dipping them in a vanilla milk shake- its a kind of salty-sweet combo that is culinary surprise (has to be a good shake, though).


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## pedr (Mar 8, 2014)

Can you get LoSalt or similar? 1/3 NaCl, 2/3 KCl ?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

pedr said:


> Can you get LoSalt or similar? 1/3 NaCl, 2/3 KCl ?




I have found I can do just fine with things like lemon juice/citric acid, vinegars and dry white wines for most applications. Or sometimes I do without.  I've tried KCL substitutes, and they taste _terrible_ to me.

But for certain things- because of taste, consistency or desired chemical reactions- salt is the only thing that will work.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 8, 2014)

As someone who works in the tourist industry, I would like to mount a defense on behalf of American tourists. 

As a whole, American tourists are just the _nicest_.* Just the friendliest people. They often come off as ignorant, but only because they're so continually amazed at anything different from what they're used to. Everybody else expects things to be different from the get-go and will ask pointed questions to figure out how things work--Americans will just assume stuff works the same as back home.


* Actually, Canadians are the nicest. Canadians are just the best.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 8, 2014)

It's interesting to me just to read all these things as someone who lives in the District of Columbia. We are, ironically, one of the areas that is least like stereotypical America and most like Europe, despite being the capital. And yet, a fair amount of this does apply to us as well.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> It's interesting to me just to read all these things as someone who lives in the District of Columbia. We are, ironically, one of the areas that is least like stereotypical America and most like Europe, despite being the capital. And yet, a fair amount of this does apply to us as well.




See also New Orleans.


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## Morrus (Mar 8, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> It's interesting to me just to read all these things as someone who lives in the District of Columbia. We are, ironically, one of the areas that is least like stereotypical America and most like Europe, despite being the capital. And yet, a fair amount of this does apply to us as well.




Most like which bit of Europe?  I mean Scotland is more different from Italy than it is from the USA.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 8, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Your kind are some of the worst tourists we get down here.



I bet they are. Those of us interested in vacationing in Florida are those we call _colon_. There is no correct translation to it in english. A classeless ignorant uncle would best describe the meaning.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 8, 2014)

High School.

Grade school seems pretty normal to what one would expect, but High School... just about everything about it, other than it being full of teens and teachers, seems alien to me. American colleges seem like what I'd expect from High School aged kids and there's never anything (on-screen) that resembles what I'd expect from an university.

It's like this High School institution got stuffed into the school system, shifting everything else about to accommodate it.

Go to the UK or the Netherlands, and it's different but still pretty recognizable.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 8, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> See also New Orleans.



Agreed. New Orleans is very distinct.



Morrus said:


> Most like which bit of Europe?



Like the large cosmopolitan cities in Western Europe that most Americans think of when they think of Europe (to be fair, I was probably overgeneralizing).

Architecturally, DC looks very different than any other American city and has many European influences (not just our Greek-looking monuments, but say, Georgetown's famously gothic appearance). We also have small convoluted streets, and DC is one of the few areas where car ownership is not mandatory and where one sees the small vehicles that are the norm in, say, London. Unlike where other posters commented below about things being spread out, in DC everything is close together. For example, one night I went out walking and ran into the White House by accident.

Also, things are old. Not as old as Europe, but much older than most of the US, where our western parts were essentially uncivilized even 150 years ago or so, and even around our older cities many of the suburbs are post-WWII developments.

Culturally, we are very diverse. Unlike in many parts of the country, it's normal to see and hear many different languages on a daily basis. We're also more in tune with politics, world affairs, and our own military. We're highly educated and don't have the same aversion to knowledge that some people associate with Americans, which is good, but there's also a social stratification here that calls back to European royalty, which is bad.

We are also somewhat disenfranchised from the American political system (we do not have a representative in Congress), and so in some ways native Washingtonians feel like very informed outside observers of America, rather than a part of it. Which is, as I said, ironic, because American history and politics are centered right at our doorstep.

I make this contrast because I've spent about half my life inside of The District and the other half outside (but near) it, and the differences are quite profound.


----------



## sabrinathecat (Mar 8, 2014)

One of the great ironies of the US is that people who live in Washington DC have no real direct representation in the Federal government, but have to pay taxes just the same. (Technically, DC is separate from any state, so they have no senators or members of congress).

A couple months ago, I had a thread up about teenagers and responsibility. I wonder if the way High School is now handled in the US (used to be very like European Colleges), has any effect on that. Graduating High School used to be an accomplishment. When I was there, all you needed was a pulse and moderate attendance. Grades didn't matter unless you were going to college. No, really. Grades didn't matter. You could fail every class, have a parent go in a bitch that it wasn't fair, and if necessary, the principal would change the grades. All the exchange students used to laugh about how easy the classes were, but how convoluted and petty the culture was.


----------



## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

EscherEnigma said:


> ... is it wrong that my first thought was "China Lake, Edwards or Vegas?"



No, it is not wrong at all. I was stationed pretty close to Edwards.


Olgar Shiverstone said:


> or Ft Irwin, 29 Palms, or Yermo.



A buddy and I visited 29 stumps to get some great camping equipment.


----------



## pedr (Mar 8, 2014)

I can't say I've studied comparative education systems, but the US practice of relying almost entirely on teacher-awarded grades to judge student achievement is odd from a British perspective. While student performance lower down the school system is monitored mainly by teachers, the important judgements about qualifications are made by (or under supervision of) external bodies. 16 year olds sit externally set and marked exams to be awarded qualifications which reflect a national standard, and the same at 17 and 18. While teacher-marked work might contribute to those qualifications, the marking is moderated to ensure comparable marking standards. There's no concept of "graduating high school"; the question is what GCSEs and A-levels you passed, and with what grades.


----------



## tomBitonti (Mar 8, 2014)

Morrus said:


> They get chartered by schools, too.  Schools don't tend to own buses.
> 
> I think you're supposed to be careful all the time here.
> 
> ...




Anyone else pick up on the "Solent Blue Line" and think "Soylent Blue Line", then twig to Soylent Green?  Maybe one should pause before boarding _that_ line.

Thx!

TomB


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

pedr said:


> While teacher-marked work might contribute to those qualifications, the marking is moderated to ensure comparable marking standards. There's no concept of "graduating high school"; the question is what GCSEs and A-levels you passed, and with what grades.




We have our own suite of statewide and national educational standards tests starting in grade schools and continuing into higher education: the SAT, ACT, GRE, Miller Analogies Test, LEAP, TAAS.  The list goes on a bit.


----------



## delericho (Mar 8, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Depending on how they're fried, I may also eat them with:
> 
> 1) lemon juice with black pepper
> 2) malt vinegar- the Brits really did get that one right
> ...




Some good choices there. A Scottish speciality is curry sauce. Which is better than it may sound.

(As opposed to deep-fried Mars bar, which I can't recommend.  )


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

Culinary secret: a lot of things we eat are what I call "flavor delivery systems" (FDS).  They are foods that, while they may have a distinct flavor, those flavors are often subtle enough to be overwhelmed by whatever seasonings or dips we choose to put on them.

French fries are a FDS.  Well, potatoes in general, really.  Ditto most rice, breads, yucca, grits/hominy, etc., all on my menu.  As a result, I have gotten good at finding nifty sauces to dip things in.

Greek garlic spread is a killer.

However, a new one I've been doing is combining honey with Chinese hot oil.  Actually, one hot oil in particular.  A local place adds pan-seared garlic and ginger to the chilis in their hot oil, and when diluted in another sauce- like honey- those other flavors bloom.

So now I'm trying to learn how to make Chinese hot oil...


----------



## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

tomBitonti said:


> Anyone else pick up on the "Solent Blue Line" and think "Soylent Blue Line", then twig to Soylent Green?  Maybe one should pause before boarding _that_ line.
> 
> Thx!
> 
> TomB



I did think that, But remained silent in hope no one would catch our company's, soylant produce, faux pas.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Culinary secret: ******ots of words*******So now I'm trying to learn how to make Chinese hot oil...




might I suggest Lee kum kee?


----------



## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

delericho said:


> Some good choices there. A Scottish speciality is curry sauce. Which is better than it may sound.
> 
> (As opposed to deep-fried Mars bar, which I can't recommend.  )



I love good curry! Thanks for the ides! Why not anyway? I put taters in my curry as well!


----------



## Morrus (Mar 8, 2014)

tomBitonti said:


> Anyone else pick up on the "Solent Blue Line" and think "Soylent Blue Line", then twig to Soylent Green?  Maybe one should pause before boarding _that_ line.
> 
> Thx!
> 
> TomB




The Solent is a major waterway between the mainland UK and the Isle of Wight.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

Wights ? AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! worser than zombies!!!!!!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> might I suggest Lee kum kee?




No need for that- the restaurant sells me the hot oil by the jar, and I just mix it as needed!  But I want to be able to make my own.


----------



## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

have you ever tried Lee Kum Kee? I find it goes well wit curry, personally


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> have you ever tried Lee Kum Kee? I find it goes well wit curry, personally




Which sauce?  They make them all- soy, oyster, sriracha, hoisin, marinades, etc.

http://lkk.elsstore.com/retailer/st....asp?storeID=1F8AB811702D40A6AC412F442ED4ECE8


----------



## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Which sauce?  They make them all- soy, oyster, sriracha, hoisin, marinades, etc.
> 
> http://lkk.elsstore.com/retailer/st....asp?storeID=1F8AB811702D40A6AC412F442ED4ECE8




it must have been the chili garlic I always got. When I was in the coma, my brother cleaned house in my place. He threw that out (*growls furiously) I guess I forgot they made many kinds.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 8, 2014)

I'll keep an eye out- my local Asian groceries are HUGE, and have entire aisles devoted to sauces, spicy and otherwise.


----------



## Scott DeWar (Mar 8, 2014)

that, indeed, would be the place to look. There is no close Asian market to where I live.


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## Hussar (Mar 9, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> One of the great ironies of the US is that people who live in Washington DC have no real direct representation in the Federal government, but have to pay taxes just the same. (Technically, DC is separate from any state, so they have no senators or members of congress).
> 
> A couple months ago, I had a thread up about teenagers and responsibility. I wonder if the way High School is now handled in the US (used to be very like European Colleges), has any effect on that. Graduating High School used to be an accomplishment. When I was there, all you needed was a pulse and moderate attendance. Grades didn't matter unless you were going to college. No, really. Grades didn't matter. You could fail every class, have a parent go in a bitch that it wasn't fair, and if necessary, the principal would change the grades. All the exchange students used to laugh about how easy the classes were, but how convoluted and petty the culture was.




On the flip side, here in Japan and Korea too, high school is insanely difficult. And I mean insane. My students would be going to extra classes at 5 am then go to school all day then back to juku until about 10 pm. Saturdays too. 

But uni is a joke. I actually had students complain about getting 80% in my class because that was a terrible grade. Graduation requires little more than attendance and I've had several students who had never written more than about 500 words at a time.


----------



## Morrus (Mar 9, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> Wights ? AAAAAAAAARRRRRRGGGGGGGGHHHHHHH! worser than zombies!!!!!!




Heh. The word actually means "man".


----------



## Viking Bastard (Mar 9, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> A couple months ago, I had a thread up about teenagers and responsibility. I wonder if the way High School is now handled in the US (used to be very like European Colleges), has any effect on that. Graduating High School used to be an accomplishment. When I was there, all you needed was a pulse and moderate attendance. Grades didn't matter unless you were going to college. No, really. Grades didn't matter. You could fail every class, have a parent go in a bitch that it wasn't fair, and if necessary, the principal would change the grades. All the exchange students used to laugh about how easy the classes were, but how convoluted and petty the culture was.




Isn't that just the general devaluation of degrees in western society?

It also used to be an accomplishment to graduate "high school" here, giving you a considerable edge in the job market (and life in general). With rising prosperity, by the mid-70s pretty much everyone graduated high school, so having graduated high school became the new default and thus wasn't really valued any more, resulting in the bachelor degree becoming the new high school diploma. Today, most people go to university and pretty much everyone gets a bachelor degree (or equivalent), resulting in the current devaluation of the bachelor degree and a general push for everyone to finish a masters degree. 

This results in an increasingly better educated society, but also creates a somewhat apathetic attitude towards that same education, because it all feels somewhat arbitrary--a lot of work for a stamp of societal approval that's losing value as you earn it.

And you can already see the same thing happening (rapidly) in Eastern Europe and other "up-and-coming" countries. It's a sign of prosperity.

*shrug* 




pedr said:


> I can't say I've studied comparative education systems, but the US practice of relying almost entirely on teacher-awarded grades to judge student achievement is odd from a British perspective. While student performance lower down the school system is monitored mainly by teachers, the important judgements about qualifications are made by (or under supervision of) external bodies. 16 year olds sit externally set and marked exams to be awarded qualifications which reflect a national standard, and the same at 17 and 18. While teacher-marked work might contribute to those qualifications, the marking is moderated to ensure comparable marking standards. There's no concept of "graduating high school"; the question is what GCSEs and A-levels you passed, and with what grades.




As has already been pointed out by [MENTION=19675]Dannyalcatraz[/MENTION], the US has plenty of those. I mean, what High School drama doesn't mention the SATs?

But the trend in international education is to move away from centralized grading. In Iceland, we used to have similar centralized tests (I took them), but we disbanded them a few years ago (because current thought is that while it makes it easier for the government and schools to evaluate students, it leads to worse education).


----------



## frogimus (Mar 9, 2014)

Viking Bastard said:


> But the trend in international education is to move away from centralized grading. In Iceland, we used to have similar centralized tests (I took them), but we disbanded them a few years ago (because current thought is that while it makes it easier for the government and schools to evaluate students, it leads to worse education).




And some assessment testing (mostly the ones that reward the teacher or school in some manner) create an environment where instructional time is dedicated to preparing for the test


----------



## STIGMATADOR (Mar 9, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> Creationism taught as a science




It is?
Where?
In what public school?

Something I find weird in other countries is the blind acceptance of man-made global warming.


----------



## Morrus (Mar 9, 2014)

No religion or politics please, folks. You know how this works.


----------



## STIGMATADOR (Mar 9, 2014)

Morrus said:


> No religion or politics please, folks. You know how this works.



Well, sabrina brought up creationism, and claimed it was taught in schools as science. Isn't that "religion"? Why doesn't she get a red letter?

And I did not know that "global warming" was "politics" and/or "religion".
I just thought it was bad science and current events.
Ah well.


----------



## Morrus (Mar 9, 2014)

STIGMATADOR said:


> Well, sabrina brought up creationism, and claimed it was taught in schools as science. Isn't that "religion"? Why doesn't she get a red letter?
> 
> And I did not know that "global warming" was "politics" and/or "religion".
> I just thought it was bad science and current events.
> Ah well.




Nobody mentioned you. The mention of creationism is what prompted my post. That said, please do not respond to moderation in-thread. You can PM or email a moderator if you have queries about the rules here.


----------



## Hussar (Mar 9, 2014)

frogimus said:


> And some assessment testing (mostly the ones that reward the teacher or school in some manner) create an environment where instructional time is dedicated to preparing for the test




Oh god I LOATHE standardised testing.  Teaching to the test is the bane of education.  Grrrr.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 10, 2014)

Hussar said:


> Oh god I LOATHE standardised testing.  Teaching to the test is the bane of education.  Grrrr.




OTOH, how else to find out if someone knows enough baseline factual or methodological info for competency within a given field?

It may not be as useful to academics, but it sure as heck matters in proffesional fields.

Still, I agree that teaching to the test is problematic.  Teach the subjects- if the students learn, they learn.  If not, its time for repetition of a class or tutorial efforts.


----------



## Hussar (Mar 10, 2014)

I strongly disagree DA. All testing reveals is how well someone can perform in a completely unnatural situation that barely relates to anything you will encounter in the real world. 

Heck one only has to look at TOEIC standards where second language learners can score very highly on the test yet utterly fail basic fluency.


----------



## Ahnehnois (Mar 10, 2014)

Standardized tests mostly just measure how good you are at taking tests.

Their validity arises mostly from the fact that to go down some professional paths, you're going to need to take a lot of them. They're  self-justifying. People who ace the SAT may one day get the opportunity to take the MCAT/LSAT/etc., and then the boards/bar/etc. None of those tests correlate strongly with real world performance in the relevant field, but if you're not a good enough test taker you may not get the chance to do anything.

To me the rationale for all this testing is tenuous at best.
(Not sour grapes; I'm incredibly good at standardized tests myself).


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 10, 2014)

The quality of testing depends on how the test is constructed, true.

But again, how do you ascertain math proficiency without testing?  How do you discern whether someone has read _The Odyssey_, understand Oil & Gas Law, can do basic economic or accounting analyses without some kind of demonstration?  How do you cull those fundamentally unfit for being engineers, MDs, etc. from those who are without comparing their abilities to a known baseline of competency in certain areas?

Again, standardized tests may not be perfect, but what do you propose as an alternative?


----------



## Hussar (Mar 10, 2014)

Empowering teachers to make that determination. Trusting and training educators to be able to determine competency in a field. 

How do I know you can do something? By watching you do it and evaluating your ability in a controlled situation. 

The problem is what I propose would be far too expensive to ever be used.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 10, 2014)

Hussar said:


> Empowering teachers to make that determination. Trusting and training educators to be able to determine competency in a field.
> 
> How do I know you can do something? By watching you do it and evaluating your ability in a controlled situation.
> 
> The problem is what I propose would be far too expensive to ever be used.




Most professions have practicals at some point that weed people out, but _only_ after the mass winnowing that occurs at the level of the LSAT, MCAT, etc. level.  There simply aren't enough teachers to either do that mass sort or to adequately assess the skills of the masses via practicals absent tests like the MCATS and their ilk.  And the economic reality of the huge numbers of would-be students tell us there never will be.

Even _after_ those tests you decry, most law schools get over 100+ applicants per slot.  Most, obviously, dont get in, and my entering class at UT Austin was nearly 600 students.  Of the admittees who make it through 3+ years of law school, 40% don't pass the par the first time.

Odds are even longer for would be doctors.


----------



## Hussar (Mar 10, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Most professions have practicals at some point that weed people out, but _only_ after the mass winnowing that occurs at the level of the LSAT, MCAT, etc. level.  There simply aren't enough teachers to either do that mass sort or to adequately assess the skills of the masses via practicals absent tests like the MCATS and their ilk.  And the economic reality of the huge numbers of would-be students tell us there never will be.
> 
> Even _after_ those tests you decry, most law schools get over 100+ applicants per slot.  Most, obviously, dont get in, and my entering class at UT Austin was nearly 600 students.  Of the admittees who make it through 3+ years of law school, 40% don't pass the par the first time.
> 
> Odds are even longer for would be doctors.




See, but, that's the point.  What is the point of the MCAT?  To simply winnow out?  You really believe that a standardised test does that?

But, even before that level, testing is still not really proving anything.  Take a 4th year uni student and give him a test in his field.  He does pretty well.  We'll say 95%.  Fantastic mark.  Six months later, after graduation, sit him down and give him the exact same test and his marks, if he passes at all, will be skin of the teeth.  It's been proven that you lose about 75-80% of what you learned in uni 6 months after graduation.

So, what did that test actually prove?

Or maybe another example.  We've all taken high school level math.  At least, most of us likely have.  Solve the following:

A^2+b=17

How much you want to bet that while some of you can do this (I certainly can't), most can't?  Despite the fact that we have had testing, and likely multiple tests that show that we could do that while we were in high school.  All the testing shows is that you are able to retain in short term memory, a selection of skills that will fade within a few months after testing.


----------



## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 10, 2014)

Hussar said:


> See, but, that's the point.  What is the point of the MCAT?  To simply winnow out?  You really believe that a standardised test does that?




Yes, it does, clearly and effectively.

@70,000 people take the MCAT annually.  50% of them score below the minimum standards of any med school in the USA.

Is everyone who doesn't get a certain score on the MCAT unqualified for med school?  No.  But most are.  And they get to try something else rather than take up space that could be allocated to someone with better odds of success in med school.  Is everyone who _does_ get a certain score on the MCAT qualified for med school?  No.  But most are, and the med schools winnow out a certain portion as well...and then the medical board exams (standardized at the state level) and residencies and internships further winnow.

Unqualified people still slip though, to be sure, but not as many as would happen if, instead of 35,000 potential students, there were 70,000 because there was no MCAT.

And again, what method do you propose to replace it?




> But, even before that level, testing is still not really proving anything.  Take a 4th year uni student and give him a test in his field.  He does pretty well.  We'll say 95%.  Fantastic mark.  Six months later, after graduation, sit him down and give him the exact same test and his marks, if he passes at all, will be skin of the teeth.  It's been proven that you lose about 75-80% of what you learned in uni 6 months after graduation.
> 
> So, what did that test actually prove?



Assuming that is true- I know of no such study- it is probably because most of what we learn in college is not used after college and/or wasn't learned well in the first place- both hurdles to retention as long-term memory.

And according to a 2001 Dartmouth paper on the nature of memory, even that forgetfulness is not as thorough as you might think:  "..."forgotten" material can be relearned in less time than is required for the original learning, even after ​many years' disuse."  

So, while the test may only prove that you knew something on test day, echoes of that knowledge linger in the mind, more easily recalled or retrained than learning it anew.



> Or maybe another example.  We've all taken high school level math.  At least, most of us likely have.  Solve the following:
> 
> A^2+b=17
> 
> How much you want to bet that while some of you can do this (I certainly can't), most can't?  Despite the fact that we have had testing, and likely multiple tests that show that we could do that while we were in high school.  All the testing shows is that you are able to retain in short term memory, a selection of skills that will fade within a few months after testing.




Again, math beyond the most rudimentary stuff is not used by most people- myself included- so there is no reason to retain it.  Heck, most of us know that even as we're learning it.  So it fades with disuse, and our attitude towards math while learning it contributes t the speed with which we lose it.  But, as the Dartmouth study points out, I could relearn it in less time now, having leaned it once, as opposed to having never learned it at all.


----------



## Ahnehnois (Mar 10, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> @70,000 people take the MCAT annually.  50% of them score below the minimum standards of any med school in the USA.
> 
> Is everyone who doesn't get a certain score on the MCAT unqualified for med school?  No.  But most are.  And they get to try something else rather than take up space that could be allocated to someone with better odds of success in med school.  Is everyone who _does_ get a certain score on the MCAT qualified for med school?  No.  But most are, and the med schools winnow out a certain portion as well...and then the medical board exams (standardized at the state level) and residencies and internships further winnow.



I don't take most of that as given at all. Is there any evidence that people who score low (or at least lower than the 50th percentile) are less likely to succeed in med school?

Moreover, does the test information tell us anything that a reasonably intelligent person could not already conclude from looking at their transcripts? To me, looking at grades, courses taken, and the rigor of where they were taken is a far better way of assessing the same thing. I doubt that the MCAT weeds out many people who have a good academic record but then bomb this particular test for some reason.

And most doctors will tell you that they've forgotten most of what they learned in medical school. The point of standardized professional education is essentially to combat fraud (given what constituted a "doctor" before the Flexner report), which is a legitimate problem. However, I remain unconvinced that the standardized tests are really part of the solution.



> And again, what method do you propose to replace it?



How about nothing? I don't think colleges and professional schools would be unable to make admissions decisions without the tests, and I'm not convinced that their decisions would be any worse.

The other major point of these tests, professional licensure and certification, is largely a peer evaluation anyway; I don't see that cutting out the exams would really change the professions that much.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 10, 2014)

*No one posted this yet?*

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xFVdvXGIT34


----------



## pedr (Mar 10, 2014)

I think the last few posts show the difference between the centrally set/marked qualifications I am used to and the standardised tests which were noted as the US equivalent. 

English qualifications are content-driven, in that the curriculum is designed by educators to teach key elements of each subject, and then to test understanding and application of those elements. This seems to be different from a US approach which has parallel tracks - a curriculum designed by individual teachers or schools, and assessed locally followed by a separate test which is disconnected from the design of the curriculum. In one sense, English education "teaches to the test" at least from age 14, but the test is aligned directly to the curriculum and designed by and in conjunction with teachers and educators. I'm sure there are educational theories which differentiate between curriculum assessment and aptitude assessment, with the SAT intended to do the latter, but it appears as if this has the effect of influencing teaching as much as a central curriculum design without the same degree of teacher buy-in.

Perhaps these are differences without substance, but I still find it notable in comparing the systems.


----------



## pedr (Mar 10, 2014)

It's also worth noting that the English approach allows for choice by schools and students - there are multiple exam boards, and each offers multiple papers/qualifications so that schools can choose particular elements of subjects to focus on, and in some cases students can choose within those subjects, often at the exam stage (I.e. a choice from the questions set within an exam).


----------



## frogimus (Mar 10, 2014)

Unfortunately, US teachers are usually people that have never been outside the education system (other than a mall clerk during uni). Our youth have little chance to learn from someone with practical experience until college.


----------



## Hussar (Mar 10, 2014)

Canada handles things a bit differently.  There are no SAT's or university entrance exams at all.  ((Granted, it's been some time since I lived in Canada, so, it might have changed, if it has, then I've got egg on my face yet again))

You are granted entrance to universities based on your grades in school.  When I went, some years ago, they looked at your final GPA and that was about it.  Getting into university was easy.  Graduating was difficult.

Contrast with Japan or Korea where it's unbelievably hard to get into the school you want.  Insanely difficult tests for entrance and competition is brutal.  But, once you're in, you're pretty much guaranteed to graduate so long as you actually bother to show up to class and virtually guaranteed a job before you graduate.

Not sure which system is better.    Every one of my 3rd year uni students have jobs waiting for them after they graduate next year.  Sheesh, must be nice.  The companies in Japan almost do all their hiring through job fairs at universities and induct new employees a couple of weeks after graduation.


----------



## Kramodlog (Mar 10, 2014)

Hussar said:


> Not sure which system is better.    Every one of my 3rd year uni students have jobs waiting for them after they graduate next year.  Sheesh, must be nice.  The companies in Japan almost do all their hiring through job fairs at universities and induct new employees a couple of weeks after graduation.



Not the same cultures when it comes to employment. In North America you are left on your own to find a job, but you can switch employers pretty easily. Even if this is changing, in Japan you are expected to work for the same companie all your life.


----------



## Janx (Mar 10, 2014)

pedr said:


> I think the last few posts show the difference between the centrally set/marked qualifications I am used to and the standardised tests which were noted as the US equivalent.
> 
> English qualifications are content-driven, in that the curriculum is designed by educators to teach key elements of each subject, and then to test understanding and application of those elements. This seems to be different from a US approach which has parallel tracks - a curriculum designed by individual teachers or schools, and assessed locally followed by a separate test which is disconnected from the design of the curriculum. In one sense, English education "teaches to the test" at least from age 14, but the test is aligned directly to the curriculum and designed by and in conjunction with teachers and educators. I'm sure there are educational theories which differentiate between curriculum assessment and aptitude assessment, with the SAT intended to do the latter, but it appears as if this has the effect of influencing teaching as much as a central curriculum design without the same degree of teacher buy-in.
> 
> Perhaps these are differences without substance, but I still find it notable in comparing the systems.




If a teacher is teaching his own preference and not preparing the student for the test that is coming, that teacher is incompetent.

In effect, everybody should be teaching to to the test.  That is the point.  To teach your studentes to pass the test.  With a teacher of good skill, the only students who fail are those who are dumb (and should fail) or those with genuine ability, but have a disability in taking tests.

given that in America, allowances for test taking disability exist, the large majority of people who fail tests are likely "dumb"

Standardized tests are a standard that everyone is held to.  people can come in all sizes, but you still must be this tall to ride.


----------



## billd91 (Mar 10, 2014)

Janx said:


> If a teacher is teaching his own preference and not preparing the student for the test that is coming, that teacher is incompetent.
> 
> In effect, everybody should be teaching to to the test.  That is the point.  To teach your studentes to pass the test.  With a teacher of good skill, the only students who fail are those who are dumb (and should fail) or those with genuine ability, but have a disability in taking tests.




No, that's not the point. Teachers should be teaching toward a competency in the curriculum, not to a single evaluation tool for that competency. Doing so would just be a myopic focus on a bureaucratic rule rather than focusing on the broader point of teaching kids that subject in the first place.


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## Janx (Mar 10, 2014)

billd91 said:


> No, that's not the point. Teachers should be teaching toward a competency in the curriculum, not to a single evaluation tool for that competency. Doing so would just be a myopic focus on a bureaucratic rule rather than focusing on the broader point of teaching kids that subject in the first place.




Why do people not assume the test is testing that competency?  That it is not asking a variety of questions and methods of measure (like essay)?  Thus completing the circle.

There has always been a single evaluation.  Whether you give an apple to the teacher to get that person to give you an A, or write an essay, or take a test, it's always come down to a single gate keeper, human or otherwise.

The standardized test attempts to reduce human variance factors (that you got Teacher A and I got Teacher B who went off on a tangent).

2 kids taking English 101 in 2 different schools better be working to the same material and metrics.  otherwise, if they both get A's, what do I really know about their quality?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 10, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> I don't take most of that as given at all. Is there any evidence that people who score low (or at least lower than the 50th percentile) are less likely to succeed in med school?
> 
> Moreover, does the test information tell us anything that a reasonably intelligent person could not already conclude from looking at their transcripts? To me, looking at grades, courses taken, and the rigor of where they were taken is a far better way of assessing the same thing. I doubt that the MCAT weeds out many people who have a good academic record but then bomb this particular test for some reason




This study concluded that, while the MCAT was not a good predictor by itself and should be used in conjunction with analysis of undergraduate GPA, the MCAT is indeed a good overall predictor of success in med school, and was better than examining undergraduate GPA alone.  IOW, while using both is best, if you're only going to consider one, use the MCAT; if assigning weight to both when considering both, weight the MCAT more heavily.

http://medical-mastermind-community...ts-med-school-academics-better-than-uGPAs.pdf

This study, 4 years later, supports the conclusions of that one, and made additional findings that are being incorporated to improve the MCAT.  (Certain things will be de-emphasized as their relevance decreases; certain subsections noted as being poorly correlative will be radically revised; the gender-bias- which actually predicts success in med school of women _better_ than for men- will be addressed, etc.)

http://journals.lww.com/academicmed...ive_Validity_of_Three_Versions_of_the.20.aspx



> And most doctors will tell you that they've forgotten most of what they learned in medical school. The point of standardized professional education is essentially to combat fraud (given what constituted a "doctor" before the Flexner report), which is a legitimate problem. However, I remain unconvinced that the standardized tests are really part of the solution.




I'm an attorney who is the sn of an MD.  We both have that same position.  So did my law-school teachers, who said that they couldn't pass the bar without studying for it.

And the primary reason why goes back to the Dartmouth study: most of what we learned, we don't use in daily practice.  (The secondary reason is that what we learned at that level has often changed in validity' completeness and relevance- no need to know info that is no longer good.)

But again, as the Dartmouth study stated, because we have learned it once, we will find it easier to recall that information than someone seeking to learn it from scratch.

To put it in practical terms, if you're in a rural area, where there is only one MD for a huge geographic area, you'd want someone who actually took a broad base of classes in med school than someone who just focused on a specialty.  While neither may have ever performed a particular operation or treated a particular disease, the generalist will get up to speed much faster than the guy who never studied it at all.



> How about nothing? I don't think colleges and professional schools would be unable to make admissions decisions without the tests, and I'm not convinced that their decisions would be any worse.




When you double (or more) the number of students they must consider for admissions, you're going to increase the error rate by simple statistics.  My dad served on the admissions board for Tulane med school for a while, pre-MCAT.  It was a nightmare of looking at huge stacks of applications that were often essentially indistinguishable.  MCATs- and similar tests- give you another evaluative tool- one proven to work (see above).



> The other major point of these tests, professional licensure and certification, is largely a peer evaluation anyway; I don't see that cutting out the exams would really change the professions that much.




The Bar exams got their name because their intent is to "bar" the unqualified from practice.  They're like any other standardized test out there, just harder.  In my state, they recently added a practical; not the norm, yet, AFAIK.

But what is the quality that peer evaluation, really?  It's assessing your skills against a known standard, just like the standardized tests claim to do...sometimes without the safeguards of an anonymous standardized test, and at greater expense.

The Texas practical for dentists, for instance, assesses your skills on live patients.  That means a certain number of people have to volunteer to have their mouths poked around in by unlicensed, unproven dentists.  Without weeder tests, you'd have to increase the number of volunteers...and examiners.  There simply aren't enough qualified dentists willing to take the time to evaluate the prospective licensees- they have their own patients to treat.  Then here's the costs of the infrastructure needed in those additional spaces in which to test the applicants, which need manual tools, dental chairs, water, sanitization, x-rays, etc.

Furthermore, unlike the anonymous standrdized tests, anyone can be failed at any time during the practical.  You will not be told why you got the tap on the shoulder.  It could be because you were incompetent.  It could be because they know you're from out of state.  It could be because the examiner is a racist or he knows you dated his cousin.  You'll never know.  Which means, as you sit out a year for the next test date, you won't know what areas you need to study more of in order to pass...or if you shouldn't even bother.

The tests aren't perfect, no.  But they do help.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 10, 2014)

frogimus said:


> Unfortunately, US teachers are usually people that have never been outside the education system (other than a mall clerk during uni). Our youth have little chance to learn from someone with practical experience until college.




And even then ... my engineering undergraduate and graduate school professors were about evenly split between those with some prior corporate/government experience and those whose entire careers had been spent in academia. Same was true of my fellow student at the graduate level -- about half like me returning to school with the other half having gone directly to grad school after completing undergrad.  There was a perceptible difference between the approaches of the two sets of professors and between the world views of the two sets of students.


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 10, 2014)

EscherEnigma said:


> I was gonna say me neither, but then someone posted the picture of cheeze whiz.  I had actually forgotten that's a thing.  Perhaps for a good reason.




Also: Cheese whiz isn't cheese.



Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> I'm telling you, people are dumb. Especially tourist. Especially American tourist. I saw some tourist from Ohio get heir car towed for not paying the valet and parking fee. They decided they would park in a private parking lot that required you pay. They got upset when the tow-truck hooked up their car. Their excuse was that they were from Ohio, and they don't pay people to park their car. I'm pretty sure they paid far more than the parking fee when they went to get their car released.




That's odd.  I mean, we have pay lots and valet parking in Ohio, too.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 10, 2014)

Zombie_Babies said:


> That's odd.  I mean, we have pay lots and valet parking in Ohio, too.



Maybe they were from Akron?


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 11, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Maybe they were from Akron?




Hmm ... it's possible.  I can't think of any valet parking spots in Akron.  I know there's pay lots, though.


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## Zander (Mar 13, 2014)

The OP asked about identifiably American "things" scene in movies/TV. Here is my list based not on films or telly, but on my experience of living in the US, Europe and Asia. I have confined myself to anything that can be perceived directly including audio-visuals. I'm not going to cover intangibles like the educational system (which has already been discussed in this thread).


Isopropyl alcohol also called rubbing alcohol. You can get it at chemists (= US drug stores) and many people seem to have it at home. It's incredibly useful stuff and I'm surprised it's not common in the UK where I currently live. You can get surgical spirits at chemists in the UK which is similar, but people generally don't know what it is and tend not to have it at home.
ID. Yes, every country in the world issues ID (though lots of people especially in developing nations don't have any), but in the US, you're asked for it all the time so people normally have some outside their home. Want to buy a drink even though you're obviously of legal age? ID, please. Want to pay for something by credit card? ID, please. Want to enter many office blocks in US cities? ID, please. Inhale? ID, please. Exhale? ID, please. Blink? ID, please. You get the idea.
Chewy chocolate chip cookies. Go into any supermarket or chemist in the US and you can pick up a pack of chewy Chips Ahoy (they used to come in red packets - do they still?). In Europe, there may be places where you can get chewy choc chip cookies, but they are far from common. It seems that Europeans like their CCC's crunchy. I don't know about elsewhere in the world. In case you haven't already guessed, I miss chewy CCC's!
Ads on television. Of course, advertisements on television are hardly uniquely American, but the US has a far greater ratio of ads to programme content than other countries. I don't think I've been anywhere else where the title sequence/opening credits for programmes are sandwiched between sets of ads.

That's it for now. If I think of more, I'll edit this post.


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## frogimus (Mar 13, 2014)

Some of my friends from the island kingdom have commented on how entertaining our ads are.  To me, the ads are better than the show that's on (but that may be due to my attention span).


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 13, 2014)

Pharmaceutical ads! 

We just don't have those. I thought they might be illegal here (like alcohol ads), so I checked. Nope. We just don't have them.


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## Ahnehnois (Mar 13, 2014)

Viking Bastard said:


> Pharmaceutical ads!
> 
> We just don't have those. I thought they might be illegal here (like alcohol ads), so I checked. Nope. We just don't have them.



In many countries (including Canada and a lot of Europe), it is illegal to market drugs to consumers who can't actually buy them (because they are only available by prescription). This kind of marketing is really a problem in the US, because the reason they're prescription drugs is that only trained professionals are supposed to know enough to be able to decide whether to use them.



			
				Zander said:
			
		

> ID. Yes, every country in the world issues ID (though lots of people especially in developing nations don't have any), but in the US, you're asked for it all the time so people normally have some outside their home. Want to buy a drink even though you're obviously of legal age? ID, please. Want to pay for something by credit card? ID, please. Want to enter many office blocks in US cities? ID, please. Inhale? ID, please. Exhale? ID, please. Blink? ID, please. You get the idea.



Honestly I think this is a post-9/11 thing. Government installations in particular changed radically, and security went up everywhere.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 13, 2014)

Ahnehnois said:


> In many countries (including Canada and a lot of Europe), it is illegal to market drugs to consumers who can't actually buy them (because they are only available by prescription). This kind of marketing is really a problem in the US, because the reason they're prescription drugs is that only trained professionals are supposed to know enough to be able to decide whether to use them.




Yeah, I assumed it was something like that here, but apparently not. I suspect, though, that if it started becoming a thing, it would be made illegal for those very reasons.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 13, 2014)

frogimus said:


> Some of my friends from the island kingdom have commented on how entertaining our ads are.  To me, the ads are better than the show that's on (but that may be due to my attention span).




That's an interesting observation; I find I actually think the European ads I've seen have generally been more clever and entertaining that most from the US outside of Super Bowl season.  Maybe I've only seen the good ones?.


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 13, 2014)

Personally I'd rather be asked for my ID than be recorded on video everywhere I walked.  Granted things are moving in a direction that'll soon see both in play but, for now, showing a sales clerk my license is fine with me.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 13, 2014)

This is so weird. I never was asked for my ID, except if I was driving and the cop wanted to see my driver's license. I think I was carded in only one bar. When I go protesting I sometime leave my IDs at home...

All this facial recognition crap is really troubling, especially considering how criminality has been dropping since the 80s. I blame the media who make it seem like more crimes are happening, making people feel insecure.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 13, 2014)

Ads are so bad in the US (frequency, duration, and quality), that I flat out refuse to watch TV directly. My monthly TV bill is $0. Netflix provides for me quite well.

One of the reasons some other countries have fewer ads is government sponsorship. In England there's a License tax on TVs, which goes to the government and eventually partially reaches the BBC.
(My information may be a little dated)


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## MarkB (Mar 13, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> Ads are so bad in the US (frequency, duration, and quality), that I flat out refuse to watch TV directly. My monthly TV bill is $0. Netflix provides for me quite well.
> 
> One of the reasons some other countries have fewer ads is government sponsorship. In England there's a License tax on TVs, which goes to the government and eventually partially reaches the BBC.
> (My information may be a little dated)




These days the BBC accounts for only a small proportion of TV in the UK, especially with satellite / cable subscriptions, which are almost universal.

Pretty much every major satellite / cable provider now provides TiVo-style hard drive recorders as part of their subscription, which goes a long way towards easing the pain of TV adverts. I can't remember the last time I watched a TV show 'live' unless it was something I stumbled upon while channel-hopping.

One thing that stands out for me when watching American TV is the many different terms used to describe car types. Descriptions like "station wagon", "RV" and others I can't recall off-hand are almost unknown here except through TV, and many of the terms we use are quite different.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 13, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> One of the reasons some other countries have fewer ads is government
> 
> 
> 
> ...



Fixed!


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 13, 2014)

Yes, most Americans didn't get the "Ford Prefect" joke from HHGttG.
Almost never see a vauxhall in the US, and most of the other cars common in EU and UK are unknown here. My grandfather had a couple of Izettas (sp?) in the back yard. Funny looking things with the door as the front of the car.
Also, since US doesn't have the mandatory inspections of cars (except maybe a smog check), you see a lot more old cars, jalopies, and wrecks that shouldn't be on the road.


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## Derren (Mar 13, 2014)

frogimus said:


> Some of my friends from the island kingdom have commented on how entertaining our ads are.  To me, the ads are better than the show that's on (but that may be due to my attention span).




Working in the car industry I find it funny that the US car ads I have seen always state if the scene shown in the add is real or fantasy in fine print.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 13, 2014)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> That's an interesting observation; I find I actually think the European ads I've seen have generally been more clever and entertaining that most from the US outside of Super Bowl season.  Maybe I've only seen the good ones?.




Brits totally have the best ads.* Nobody is allowed to boast about anything, so it's like a national competition in what brand can make fun of itself the best.


* Brit TV in general is the envy of the world (unless you ask a Brit).


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 13, 2014)

In the early 90s, there was an ad for a Brit investment bank. It was a fake ad for the new Russian sports car, good for driving on the continent or (flip switch and steering wheel move to the other side) UK. Available in any color you want, so long as it's red.

A fun one from Germany was two guys meeting in a bar. "Hey, long time. How's it going. Good to see you." whips out wallet "My house, my wife, my car." "Oooh, not bad." other guy takes out his wallet. "My house (bigger), my wife (hotter), My car (sexier)... my yacht, my horse, my vacation cottage." If you'd been banking with Sparkasse...


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## Lwaxy (Mar 13, 2014)

Dioltach said:


> Only in the US is a polo shirt considered acceptable business wear.




Nope, that's fine in GErmany, Austria, Iceland, Denmark and Sweden, to name those places my husband/cousin visit for business. There are liekly more. 

BTW Germany does have yellow cabs, too.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 13, 2014)

In Iceland "business wear" is hardly a thing (other than 'tidy'). Unless you're expecting foreigners.


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## trappedslider (Mar 13, 2014)

[video=youtube;LgF2aSpyQDs]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LgF2aSpyQDs[/video] thats my favorite ad from Europe


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## Morrus (Mar 15, 2014)

Here's something I noticed recently about US media and now can't unhear:  the frequent insertion of the words _"go ahead and"_ into the middle of sentences.  For example, instead of "I'm going to pick up that cup" it's "I'm going to _go ahead and_ pick up that cup"; or "could you open the door?" it's "could you _go ahead and_ open the door?"

I started noticing it on US TV shows a month or two ago, and now I can't stop noticing it!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 15, 2014)

Morrus said:


> Here's something I noticed recently about US media and now can't unhear:  the frequent insertion of the words _"go ahead and"_ into the middle of sentences.  For example, instead of "I'm going to pick up that cup" it's "I'm going to _go ahead and_ pick up that cup"; or "could you open the door?" it's "could you _go ahead and_ open the door?"
> 
> I started noticing it on US TV shows a month or two ago, and now I can't stop noticing it!




Idiomatic phrases will always go ahead and drive you nuts...


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## frogimus (Mar 15, 2014)

Americans do a lot of "tailgating", which is a big party in the parking lot before, after, and sometimes during sporting events like football, baseball, NASCAR races, etc.  We grill food and drink from red disposable cups.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 16, 2014)

frogimus said:


> Americans do a lot of "tailgating", which is a big party in the parking lot before, after, and sometimes during sporting events like football, baseball, NASCAR races, etc.  We grill food and drink from red disposable cups.



NASCAR is not a sport. It's a bunch of drunks watching other drunk continuously making left turns.


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## frogimus (Mar 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> It's a bunch of drunks watching ...




Doesn't that define a sport?


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Mar 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> NASCAR is not a sport.




Sure it is; it's one of only three sports: motor racing, mountain climbing, and bull fighting.  

Everything else is just children's games played by adults.


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## Kramodlog (Mar 16, 2014)

Bull fighting is rigged, turning in circles is not a sport and climbers would need to fight off people while climbing to get some respect.


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## trappedslider (Mar 16, 2014)

better than watching two folks beat the crap out of each other just to boost an ego..school yard fights with official rules and getting paid for it....make them fight to the death!


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 16, 2014)

Olgar Shiverstone said:


> Sure it is; it's one of only three sports: motor racing,



 Since when is watching traffic a sport? 







> mountain climbing,



That's a kid's activity,  or what poor people do when they can't afford to drive to the ski Lodge. 







> and bull fighting.



Animal cruelty is not a sport. You may as well say that the people that work at slaughter houses are elite athletes.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 16, 2014)

frogimus said:


> Doesn't that define a sport?




No, that defines the fans, but you missed the fat part.


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## Waller (Mar 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Since when is watching traffic a sport?




The spectators aren't doing the sport.  The people doing the sport are doing the sport.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 16, 2014)

Corrosive said:


> The spectators aren't doing the sport.  The people doing the sport are doing the sport.



And what sport are the people doing the sport doing?


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## Waller (Mar 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> And what sport are the people doing the sport doing?




Motor sports. The people watching the mostor sports are watching the motor sports.  The people doing the motor sport are doing the motor sport. Watching.  Doing. They're different people.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 16, 2014)

Corrosive said:


> Motor sports. The people watching the mostor sports are watching the motor sports.  The people doing the motor sport are doing the motor sport. Watching.  Doing. They're different people.




Great, from now on ill tell people I'm a professional athlete because I drive my car.


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## frogimus (Mar 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Great, from now on ill tell people I'm professional athlete becausei drive my car.




Only if you are being paid.  If you aren't being paid, you are an amateur athlete.  If you are being paid secretly, you are an NCAA athlete.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 16, 2014)

frogimus said:


> Only if you are being paid.  If you aren't being paid, you are an amateur athlete.  If you are being paid secretly, you are an NCAA athlete.



I drive to work and get paid for it. I'm a professional athlete.


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## Morrus (Mar 16, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Great, from now on ill tell people I'm a professional athlete because I drive my car.




Cut the snark, please.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 17, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Great, from now on ill tell people I'm a professional athlete because I drive my car.




Only if you are driving to work in Brazil--a place where the professional race car drivers say "no thanks" when offered the wheel during commute hours.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 17, 2014)

sabrinathecat said:


> Only if you are driving to work in Brazil--a place where the professional race car drivers say "no thanks" when offered the wheel during commute hours.



Worse, I have to drive to work in Miami, where I've almost been run over a few times... by cops... while I was walking... on the sidewalk.


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## Scott DeWar (Mar 17, 2014)

Hey, get off their sidewalk when they are driving!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 17, 2014)

Because it was St. Patrick's day, I took my Mom to dine on corned beef & cabbage with her Irish-American buddy, and this popped into my head:

Do they have cafeteria-style restaurants in other countries?  I mean, I've been around, but all of a sudden, I realized I can't remember eating at a cafeteria on foreign soil, except on military bases.


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## Morrus (Mar 17, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Because it was St. Patrick's day, I took my Mom to dine on corned beef & cabbage with her Irish-American buddy, and this popped into my head:
> 
> Do they have cafeteria-style restaurants in other countries?  I mean, I've been around, but all of a sudden, I realized I can't remember eating at a cafeteria on foreign soil, except on military bases.




Yup. Loads of them.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 18, 2014)

Scott DeWar said:


> Hey, get off their sidewalk when they are driving!



It happened one time while I was walking in a parking lot. I'm going to need to learn to fly in order to avoid them. Then again, I might get run over by the police helicopters.

So, back on topic:
Is the police and doughnut association something that happens outside of the U.S.? I'm guessing there are other foo that take the place of doughnuts in other countries, but are cops in other countries associated with eating fattening foods?


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## Kramodlog (Mar 18, 2014)

Here too, but we suffer from your imperialism.


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## Morrus (Mar 18, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> It happened one time while I was walking in a parking lot. I'm going to need to learn to fly in order to avoid them. Then again, I might get run over by the police helicopters.
> 
> So, back on topic:
> Is the police and doughnut association something that happens outside of the U.S.? I'm guessing there are other foo that take the place of doughnuts in other countries, but are cops in other countries associated with eating fattening foods?




Not here.


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 18, 2014)

goldomark said:


> Here too, but we suffer from your imperialism.



Good!


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 18, 2014)

Morrus said:


> Not here.



So what's the view on cops over there?


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## Morrus (Mar 18, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> So what's the view on cops over there?




What, in terms of food, or as a whole?

The former - there's no association. The later - I have no idea how to answer other than "it varies". You'd have to be more specific!


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 18, 2014)

Morrus said:


> What, in terms of food, or as a whole?
> 
> The former - there's no association. The later - I have no idea how to answer other than "it varies". You'd have to be more specific!




Let's start with food.


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## Hussar (Mar 18, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Because it was St. Patrick's day, I took my Mom to dine on corned beef & cabbage with her Irish-American buddy, and this popped into my head:
> 
> Do they have cafeteria-style restaurants in other countries?  I mean, I've been around, but all of a sudden, I realized I can't remember eating at a cafeteria on foreign soil, except on military bases.




Oh, sure.  We have them here in Japan too.


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## Morrus (Mar 18, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Let's start with food.




There's no association.


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## Dioltach (Mar 18, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> Is the police and doughnut association something that happens outside of the U.S.? I'm guessing there are other foo that take the place of doughnuts in other countries, but are cops in other countries associated with eating fattening foods?




No specific food that I can think of, but I used to live opposite a police station, and every day around 6 o'clock four of five police cars would dash out in various directions with their sirens wailing, and come back about 20 minutes later with different kinds of takeout.


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## Zombie_Babies (Mar 18, 2014)

After reading quite a bit of Irvine Welsh, I'd have to associate UK cops with sausage rolls.  They sure do seem to eat them a lot.  Er, at least in his fiction.


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## Zander (Mar 18, 2014)

One of my regular D&D players works for the police as an administrator here in the UK and has family members who are police officers. I don't think there's an association between being a police officer and any kind of food in the UK, but I'll try to get the inside view and report back next week if there is.


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## nerfherder (Mar 18, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Do they have cafeteria-style restaurants in other countries?  I mean, I've been around, but all of a sudden, I realized I can't remember eating at a cafeteria on foreign soil, except on military bases.



In the UK, yes - especially in large stores like M&S, Debenhams, or motorway service stations.


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## Derren (Mar 18, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Do they have cafeteria-style restaurants in other countries?  I mean, I've been around, but all of a sudden, I realized I can't remember eating at a cafeteria on foreign soil, except on military bases.




In France they are called Brasserie.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 18, 2014)

How do you define a cafeteria-style restaurant? Bad food buffet?


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 18, 2014)

"Everything is all 'DNA' now. CSI Cardiff: that's a show I'd watch. Scientific experiments to track the speed of a kabob."

--rough paraphrase from Torchwood Episode 1


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## Homicidal_Squirrel (Mar 18, 2014)

Zander said:


> One of my regular D&D players works for the police as an administrator here in the UK and has family members who are police officers. I don't think there's an association between being a police officer and any kind of food in the UK, but I'll try to get the inside view and report back next week if there is.



It seems both the UK and the US share cops using their vehicles to do things they shouldn't be doing.


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## sabrinathecat (Mar 18, 2014)

Homicidal_Squirrel said:


> It seems both the UK and the US share cops using their vehicles to do things they shouldn't be doing.




Pretty sure that's universal


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2014)

Viking Bastard said:


> How do you define a cafeteria-style restaurant? Bad food buffet?






No.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2014)

American cafeteria restaurants are much like the ones we have in our schools...but generally better. 

So, you enter, grab a plate and utensils, and either get in a line or go to certain serving stations where food is being served to you by employees.  Usually, the food is resting in a steam-table or under a heat lamp, much like you'd find at a hot buffet.  Some things are also kept chilled.

Where I am, they have as many strata of cafeterias as standard restaurants.  There are some that are definitely just barely a notch above institutional food, while others are darn near being fine dining.  One near my house used to serve prime rib and lobster...*










* loved that place.  It was always packed on Sundays, too, but went out of business because their overhead- read, rent- was too high.  They cleared a greater gross income than any other location in their chain, but had the lowest net profits (only $2k/month).


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## Derren (Mar 19, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> American cafeteria restaurants are much like the ones we have in our schools...but generally better.
> 
> So, you enter, grab a plate and utensils, and either get in a line or go to certain serving stations where food is being served to you by employees.  Usually, the food is resting in a steam-table or under a heat lamp, much like you'd find at a hot buffet.  Some things are also kept chilled.




Oh, then forget Brasseries. They are something different.
I know that many restaurants in Europe offer buffets on some dates/times which work like this in addition to their normal a la carte business. But I have not seen this as main form of service in cafeterias.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 19, 2014)

I forget...did I mention pocket-sized powdered or liquid drink mixes?

The last time my parents went abroad in 2010, my Mom's use of such things at the table was so unusual that a chef actually came out to see what she was putting in her water or tea...and was quite thankful when she gave him a bottle.  

And when she was on the return leg, she left her stash with the hotel's cleaning lady...who said she was going to call her family to share the bounty!  No, she wasn't being sarcastic.


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## Morrus (Mar 19, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> American cafeteria restaurants are much like the ones we have in our schools...but generally better.
> 
> So, you enter, grab a plate and utensils, and either get in a line or go to certain serving stations where food is being served to you by employees.  Usually, the food is resting in a steam-table or under a heat lamp, much like you'd find at a hot buffet.  Some things are also kept chilled.
> 
> Where I am, they have as many strata of cafeterias as standard restaurants.  There are some that are definitely just barely a notch above institutional food, while others are darn near being fine dining.  One near my house used to serve prime rib and lobster...*.




Yeah, common.  Different types, as you say.


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## Jim Jenkins (Mar 21, 2014)

Lately I've been wondering how common peanut butter is outside of the US.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 21, 2014)

Except for the IKEA cafeteria, I can't think of any places like that. Plenty of buffet lunch places, but not quite like that.

Peanut butter is pretty common here and is more common today than when I was a kid (it was available, it just hadn't caught on).


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## Morrus (Mar 21, 2014)

Jim Jenkins said:


> Lately I've been wondering how common peanut butter is outside of the US.




It's in all the supermarkets.  It's not a "thing" - it's just one of a thousand spreads, but it's commonly available.


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## Hussar (Mar 21, 2014)

Totally not a thing here.  They have something they call peanut butter, but it blows badly.  Unbelievably sweet.  Usually called peanut cream.  Yuck.  I blew my students minds when I gave them celery with peanut butter on it.


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## Zander (Mar 21, 2014)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I forget...did I mention pocket-sized powdered or liquid drink mixes?
> 
> The last time my parents went abroad in 2010, my Mom's use of such things at the table was so unusual that a chef actually came out to see what she was putting in her water or tea...and was quite thankful when she gave him a bottle.
> 
> And when she was on the return leg, she left her stash with the hotel's cleaning lady...who said she was going to call her family to share the bounty!  No, she wasn't being sarcastic.




In the UK, liquid drink mixes are very common but not in pocket sizes. It mostly comes in large bottles. Orange squash is the most common generic kind. I think it has existed in the UK longer than the US. A former colleague from the US drank some undiluted the first time he came to the UK as he didn't know what it was. You can get pocket-sized liquid ones (Robinsons does several flavours) but they're not super common.

Same story with powdered mixers in the UK. Common in large sizes (e.g. Nesquick) but not so common in pocket sizes.

The Japanese have powdered drink mixes in smallish sizes. My favourite is a sports drink called - don't laugh - Pocari Sweat.  You can also get it hydrated in cans and bottles. The powdered and hydrated versions are also available in S. Korea and the UK (and probably the US?).


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## Dannyalcatraz (Mar 21, 2014)

Hussar said:


> Totally not a thing here.  They have something they call peanut butter, but it blows badly.  Unbelievably sweet.  Usually called peanut cream.  Yuck.  I blew my students minds when I gave them celery with peanut butter on it.




I love PB.  I love celery.  I have avoided combining the two my entire life, even when it was served to me in school.



Zander said:


> In the UK, liquid drink mixes are very common but not in pocket sizes. It mostly comes in large bottles. Orange squash is the most common generic kind. I think it has existed in the UK longer than the US. A former colleague from the US drank some undiluted the first time he came to the UK as he didn't know what it was. You can get pocket-sized liquid ones (Robinsons does several flavours) but they're not super common.
> 
> Same story with powdered mixers in the UK. Common in large sizes (e.g. Nesquick) but not so common in pocket sizes.
> 
> The Japanese have powdered drink mixes in smallish sizes. My favourite is a sports drink called - don't laugh - Pocari Sweat.  You can also get it hydrated in cans and bottles. The powdered and hydrated versions are also available in S. Korea and the UK (and probably the US?).




I've seen Pocari Sweat as a standard beverage Here in Texas, in Korean, Vietnamese, and Japanese groceries.


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## Viking Bastard (Mar 21, 2014)

There is a long tradition of liquid mixes here, with some ancient local brands, but it's usually in liter containers. Powdered ones usually come in smaller sizes (although you generally buy half a dozen together), except Nesquick (which is by far the biggest brand, everybody of my generation grew up on the stuff).


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