# Encounter difficulty



## corwyn77 (Aug 25, 2011)

So, especially for anyone who's run sky all the way through...

How much have you tweaked encounters, or have you played it mostly by the book?

Looking at the 1st adventure, there's a few "get your feet wet" encounters but then nothing to the very end is below level +2 with the vast majority level +3 or 4. In addition, the monsters seem to fit MM1 math with very low damage. The two combined may make for doable encounters but may be dull and safe.

Then in adventure 12, the encounters range from level -4 to even, excluding the finale (though the damage seems much better). IME, epic characters routinely handle level +7 (according to my DM).

No disrespect meant, I'm really enjoying the writing in prepping my game, just a little concerned about how the encounters play out.


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## Primitive Screwhead (Aug 26, 2011)

I am running #9 at the moment, and have tweaked every encounter so far.. but then again I have a group of 8 PCs with 4 Leaders...
  In a recent fight the defender soaked 700ish hit points and finally dropped to -1

That being said, remember that modules 1 - 4 were converted to 4e basically right after the new system came out, and they stuck pretty close to 3x encounter design. Later modules had more errate and a better understanding of the system.

  I still tweak the encounter, but not as much as I used to. In module 8 I even ran some of them straight by the book.



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## Jhaelen (Aug 26, 2011)

I adjust encounters in every published scenario I play. I wouldn't expect WotBS to be any different. Adjusting the 'monster math' took me about an hour for each module. Adjusting encounter levels, if required, is mainly achieved by adding/substracting opponents and can be done on the fly (e.g. to adjust them to a varying number of players showing up for a session).

The only slightly tricky part are encounters that are written to use only a single solo. I don't like solo encounters very much, so I tend to turn them into elites instead and add a bunch of 'goons' or environmental hazards to the encounter.


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## Truename (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm wrapping up #3 and I think rebuilding the encounters with post-MM3 monsters is essential. A flaw in an otherwise excellent series.

It's a pain, but ever since I started rebuilding in earnest (mostly in #3), my players have enjoyed the fights so much more. And the rest of the adventure path is good enough that it makes up for it.

If I were starting a new campaign today, though, I'd probably try .


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## OnlineDM (Aug 26, 2011)

I've been tweaking monster math since late in adventure 3 and I wish I'd done more earlier. We just finished up adventure 4 and are starting adventure 5 tonight.

I've also completely re-written monsters and encounters from time to time. In the early adventures, there seemed to be quite a few "fights for the sake of fighting". They didn't really add anything to the story and just bogged things down. I threw those out the window in later sessions and only ran the cool, important fights (some of which I ended up creating on my own).


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## corwyn77 (Aug 26, 2011)

OnlineDM said:


> I've been tweaking monster math since late in adventure 3 and I wish I'd done more earlier. We just finished up adventure 4 and are starting adventure 5 tonight.
> 
> I've also completely re-written monsters and encounters from time to time. In the early adventures, there seemed to be quite a few "fights for the sake of fighting". They didn't really add anything to the story and just bogged things down. I threw those out the window in later sessions and only ran the cool, important fights (some of which I ended up creating on my own).




I was definitely planning on doing this myself. I'm not really a combat heavy GM and my games in other systems tend to be one or two combats per session, max. I'm not concerned with the xp from combat; it's been about 10 years since I actually handed out xp, I just level them when I want them to increase.

[MENTION=78255]Truename[/MENTION]: I would actually run Zeitgeist first as it seems more interesting to me. Unfortunately, I don't want to run it over the course of three years. Maybe next time, if I'm still interested in running 4e.


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## malcolm_n (Aug 26, 2011)

I'm curious about the party dynamic that you have for your group and how you had to tweak the numbers in twelve (or any WotBS 7 and up) up or down depending.  It's always good to hear how others view modules so that future works can take such cares into consideration.

[sblock=Spoiler Warning]Remember that the section where the heroes attack Leska's home is meant to be a complete walk through and really only challenging if the party is about 4 levels lower (there's a sidebar on this).  When you get to the actual war, you're meant to face many many challenges to build up to the final battle within the heart's chamber.  To help keep your options open, we tried to keep all of the encounters roughly the same level.  The heroes will get little to no complete rest while the war wages, so their powers will hopefully be pushed to the limit just by the somewhat continual fighting.  All of this, assuming that your party is exactly as intended (which they never are) should have the heroes hit 30 fairly early on and then proceed to clear their way to Leska with only a couple of real challenges.[/sblock]

I hope that provides a little insight into adventure 12.  Enjoy


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## Primitive Screwhead (Aug 29, 2011)

*Party Dynamic and WoBS 7 and up*

I am currently running Module #9 and plan on waiting to see how crazy higher levels get before mapping out the final modules... not to mention at our rate of play... monthly 4 hour sessions tend to draw this game out 


 But I can give you some input from where I sit.

 First: Party makeup
 [sblock]
23rd level:
  - Devon: Invigorating Fighter build, carries the Torch
  - Pepper: Melee Ranger
  - Darious: Sorcerer
  - Shaorin: Warlord
  - Galen: Bard, Chosen of the Gods/Cleric multi-class
Occasion joins:
  - Zippity: Cleric, healing focus. Drops in every couple of months
Rare Joins:
  - Paladin and Warlord... hasn't shown for over 6 months

My PC when someone subs for me:
  - Three Weeping Ravens, done as a Seeker weilding a Long Bow.

 End result: 1 melee defender that can soak over 700 hit points with help from the three leaders and two strikers that can dish out a ton of damage.

 Missing: Ranged and full on controller roles.
 [/sblock]

Second, encounter philosophies
[sblock]
 I use the DMG encounter templates, and Asmor's additional templates. 
Standard monsters usually at the same level or up to +2
Elites level -2 to same level
Solos level -4 to -2 and always have support

Soldiers are down two levels.
Generally 1 monster per PC, and then add two for entertainment factor

Note: I don't use XP budgets.

Adventure day:
  An average 'day' has 6 encounters. The amount of healing my group puts out makes it hard to challenge them with less.  In Module 8 I ended up running a 13 encounter 'day'. The group still had dailies and healing surges by the time they hit the final encounter.
   Thank gods that no-one has taken that 'heroic endurance' that grants +1 bonus per milestone...

Skill challenges:
  I use Stalker0's Obsideon with a 'lethal' modification {post in HR forum} that drains resources.

Encounter goals:
 Bloody at least half of the PCs, endanger at least one going under 0 hit points, and make it fun!
[/sblock]

Third, monster scaling:
[sblock]
 I scale pretty much everything... and it has worked out pretty good for me so far. 
  You start with a Solo monster at level X.
   Scale up 4 levels and turn it into an Elite
  Scale up another 4 and turn it into a Standard
  Scale up another 4 to turn it into a 'demi-minion' or two hit minion
  Scale up another 4 levels to turn it into a minon or an elite platoon of 4 to 12 creatures
  Scale up another 4 levels to turn it into an platoon of 8 to 24 creatures
  Then finally another 8 levels to become a minon platoon.

In this way you can take a 1st level Dreadnaught Solo NPC and fight the same character type all the way through 30th.
  In Module 9, the PCs are facing platoons of Master Ragesian Archers.. a 21st level Artillery mob. In the final module these same platoons will be minions that the epic PCs wade through like its nobodies business.

[/sblock]

Finally, an example combination {my players stay out!!!}
[sblock]
  There are two encounters in the module that are basically back to back. A group of skeleton scouts come over and the PCs easily handle them. Then a pair of mercenaries launch a sneak attack.
  For my group, I am consolidating these two encounters into one and will have two Elites {Troll and Harpy} along with 3 or 4 Ragesian Skeleton demi-minions for each PC that makes the session.  This makes the encounter very easy to scale if more players make it.

 Both elites I have scaled up from the monster builder from high Paragon level Troll and Harpies. The Harpy is going to remain invisible and behind the skeletons, using her Song to captivate them while the Troll will launch an assualt from the other side on any controllery types that stay back from the melee.
  I expect it to be really messy as the group really doesn't protect thier rear flank 

I can post the three monster files if you want.. they are not on this computer..

[/sblock]

Also, check out recent threads by me that give the run-down of the final battle in Module #8


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