# Why must a loving soul be so alone...



## Angel Tarragon (Jun 8, 2005)

I have had faith for so long that I'd find that special someone by putting my life in the hands in the one from up above...

<sigh> I'm tired of waiting. I know I am blessed for having a family that really cares about me, but it isn't enough., I have too much love to give to go through my life alone. I've tried multiple internet 'dating' sites and never even got a nibble.

I'm tired of being alone. I had to get this off my chest, I'm just so sick of being alone in a world of millions.


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## Scotley (Jun 8, 2005)

Don't give up hope. I didn't get married until I was in my 30's. My personal experience has been that it was only when I stopped looking that I found relationships. Must be some sort of cosmic nihlism at work. The best advice I can give you is don't try too hard. Make a happy life for yourself and someone will want to join you.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 8, 2005)

Average age for men to marry is 28 (first marriage).  That means there are a lot of men who marry in their 30s.


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## Thornir Alekeg (Jun 8, 2005)

Not sure what to say.  People can offer all the usual platitudes: "Give it time" Don;t worry, it will happen" etc. but who can really say.  Only thing I can say is don't give up, and try not to seem too desperate to love someone.  Be confident in yourself, and try and relax.  When I finally did those things, it all came together.


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## der_kluge (Jun 8, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I have had faith for so long that I'd find that special someone by putting my life in the hands in the one from up above...
> 
> <sigh> I'm tired of waiting. I know I am blessed for having a family that really cares about me, but it isn't enough., I have too much love to give to go through my life alone. I've tried multiple internet 'dating' sites and never even got a nibble.
> 
> I'm tired of being alone. I had to get this off my chest, I'm just so sick of being alone in a world of millions.





I am reminded of being in a mall one day and seeing a couple walk through the mall. She was a grossly overweight, hideous thing with lots of 20-year old clothes. He was a skinny, ugly, moustached-dude with cowboy boots and a cowboy hat.  I turned to my Mom (they were visiting from out of town) and said, "It's true. There is someone for everyone."

So, she's out there, buddy. Just waiting for YOU!

Do you think there is something about *you* that would make you unappealing towards women?  Are you wanting advice, or are you just wanting to complain? Either is fine, but if it's the former, tell us about yourself, and maybe we can provide some help on things that you can do to improve your chances?


This can't hurt, either:
http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/t...5/102-0188964-3023366?_encoding=UTF8&v=glance


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## Turanil (Jun 8, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I'm tired of being alone. I had to get this off my chest, I'm just so sick of being alone in a world of millions.



Frukathka, forgive me to speak rudely. Myself I had to lose 45 lb. before I found a woman to share my life (she is there as I type). I will thus strongly suggest a serious diet plus bodybuilding. Then, Internet is a sure way to NOT meet your soulmate. In any case, I wish for you to eventually find someone.


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## Angel Tarragon (Jun 8, 2005)

I could stand to lose some weight, but I am fairly attractive. I had quite a few girlfriends in middle and high school.

der_kluge, I have that book. My parents bought it for me out of sympathy for my situation. It deals more on how to have a physical relationship with women. I'm not looking for that. I need an emotional relationship. 

I get outside at least once a week, thats all I can afford, really. 

I passed the 29 mark a week and a half ago.


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## Darrin Drader (Jun 8, 2005)

I have three words for you: mail order bride.


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## Belen (Jun 8, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I could stand to lose some weight, but I am fairly attractive. I had quite a few girlfriends in middle and high school.
> 
> der_kluge, I have that book. My parents bought it for me out of sympathy for my situation. It deals more on how to have a physical relationship with women. I'm not looking for that. I need an emotional relationship.
> 
> ...




Dude, just stop caring about it.  Women can smell needy a thousand miles away.  Stop caring about what they think about you and put all your fears away.  Do not be afraid to talk with people etc.


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## Angel Tarragon (Jun 8, 2005)

Whisperfoot said:
			
		

> I have three words for you: mail order bride.



uh, _heck_ no!


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## Wystan (Jun 8, 2005)

I have a friend that is a good looking guy, he is 32 and has never had more than 2 dates with any one person. Keep looking.


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 8, 2005)

There's also the ... oh, I forget what it's called.  More men are born than women in the US.  However, there are more women in the US.  Men die off faster, and there starts to be a big difference in population in the middle 20s.  So, every day, your chances get better.


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## ForceUser (Jun 8, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I have had faith for so long that I'd find that special someone by putting my life in the hands in the one from up above...



I feel you, man. The relationship that I thought could be "it" ended not too long ago, but despite that, I'm optimistic. There are six billion people on the planet. Even if only 1/10th of 1% of those people are compatible life partners, that's still, what, 600,000 people one could potentially build a happy life with? The odds are in our favor.

Here's my one piece of advice, FWIW: you need to be happy with who you are before you can be happy with someone else.


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## Turanil (Jun 8, 2005)

ron-burgundy said:
			
		

> You can look however you want and still get girls.



Don't listen to this garbage too.



			
				ForceUser said:
			
		

> Here's my one piece of advice, FWIW: you need to be happy with who you are before you can be happy with someone else.



On the other hand, that's word of wisdom.


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## Lady_Acoma (Jun 8, 2005)

You know I have to agree that you just need to sit back and stop worrying about finding it right now and enjoy your life as it is.  I have recently found someone in an unexpected place (a friend I had no idea cared for me or was avaliable to someone of my sexuality) and it was only after I stopped looking that I found it.  I have generally found that it is when I stop looking that I find my best relationships.  I have found people when looking, but I am always desperate and end up settling for something that I don't really want and it never works.  Just be happy now man, we love you.


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## Henry (Jun 8, 2005)

BelenUmeria said it in kind of a direct fashion, but I'll second the sentiment. The needier you are, the harder it gets to find someone - maybe it's the whole thing about "trying too hard," I suppose?

I suppose you could try the Tao of Steve ("Be Desireless" - "Be Excellent" - "Be Gone") and just leave off the last part  but the important thing to remember is that you have to be comfortable with yourself before others can be comfortable with you. This is a HELLISHLY hard thing to do for some people, but it can make a difference in how others perceive you and how you subconsciously interact with other people.


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## Henry (Jun 8, 2005)

Turanil and Ron, let's please take the insults off the boards - for whatever little that internet advice is worth, insulting one another in this thread is even less conducive.


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## EricNoah (Jun 8, 2005)

There are proactive things you can do so that when "chance" brings you a meeting with someone, you are ready to seize that opportunity instead of saying, "Wow, she's great, so NOW I'll ..." whatever it is (diet, exercise, etc.).  Taking classes, doing things that get you out of the house and into social situations (book clubs, volunteer work, etc.) can be helpful.  It's hard for us introverts to do this -- I know!


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## EricNoah (Jun 8, 2005)

ron-burgundy said:
			
		

> I don't want to argue with you Henry but there were no "insults" given.




"Shut your face" is just plain old rude.  I thought I sensed a teensy weensy bit of playfulness there, but it wasn't particularly obvious to me...


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## Tewligan (Jun 8, 2005)

ron-burgundy said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how they do things in France but...SHUT YOUR FACE!



I like the .sig I have now, but it may have to get dropped for this. I love it!


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## Lady_Acoma (Jun 8, 2005)

Dude you are distracting from the thread topic, please stop.


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## Mystery Man (Jun 8, 2005)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> I like the .sig I have now, but it may have to get dropped for this. I love it!




Yes, I had to LoL. 

I had quite a dry spell myself before I finally met my wife, we'll be married 10 years in August. I would go to places (other than the comic store) that interest you. Striking up a conversation with someone who has a shared interest is a good way to break the ice. Meeting someone on the internet is replacing bars for the one night stand, almost impossible to find someone with whom you actually have something in common.


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## Belen (Jun 8, 2005)

I met my wife in a Barnes and Noble.  I helped her choose a book.


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## frankthedm (Jun 8, 2005)

Being too nice is a problem, so is paying too much attention.

Total Indifference for an evening can work wonders.

It all breaks down to a cause pain, usually emotional [current society only condone what you can get them to self infict] couter with some positive attention , repeat pain, counter with attention. More or less good old stockholm syndrome.


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 8, 2005)

Being on the prowl for a significant other is always a little difficult.  It's true: women can just feel a needy man... and it terrifies us.  It really takes some work to be able to "fly casual" in this respect.

I wish I had some better advice to offer, but I don't.  I don't really have much experience in the dating field.  I met my husband when I was young, fell in love, and now we're married.

But - you've got my ear... I never mind being someone's venting outlet.


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## Lucrecio (Jun 8, 2005)

Yo Frukathka


I understand your problem, it is something we live with everyday and it isn't a pleasant weight on our shoulders. But, I agree with what has been already been said; It helps when you aren't looking, women are better than men (on average) to read body langage (thats straight from my school books  ) and are quite good at spotting needy and/or desperate people. So, if you focus on being happy with your single life, you'll look more confident (& the opposite sex likes that ), which will help when you'll meet the right person. 

When will you meet that special someone? Dunno, maybe tomorrow, maybe tonight, maybe in a year, but life has to be enjoyed buddy, enjoy your single life even if it isn't the way you want it to be. 

Take care man.


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## Angel Tarragon (Jun 8, 2005)

I found my center about three years ago, it has kept me in blance and harmony right up til now. I never come off as needy. I am happy with all the circumstances in my life right now, as I know they could be aheck of a lot worse, so I'm thankful for what I have. 

Right now, it not that I _need_ a significant other, more want to feel completion.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 8, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I am reminded of being in a mall one day and seeing a couple walk through the mall. She was a grossly overweight, hideous thing with lots of 20-year old clothes. He was a skinny, ugly, moustached-dude with cowboy boots and a cowboy hat.





Yaaaaghgghghg...this sounds like this creepy couple who come into the Hastings in Conway and try to trade Yu-Gi-Oh cards with the kids on Saturdays.  You have described them exactly.  They were finally asked by the management to not come in when the kids were gathered in the card gaming area.

Frukathka...be patient.  All things in time.  Don't force it.


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## Nareau (Jun 8, 2005)

Why?  Because sometimes love just ain't enough.


			
				Frukathka said:
			
		

> I have had faith for so long that I'd find that special someone by putting my life in the hands in the one from up above...



While faith plays many roles in life, it doesn't always produce the kind of concrete results you seem to be after.  Perhaps you should give "the man upstairs" a little help by going out more.

The past few relationships I've had began in nightclubs, college, work, role-playing games, an even in an old-school dialup BBS.  These aren't the most reliable sources of companionship, but they all share one thing--they required me to be amongst a large group of people that share some of my interests.  That is, IME, the single most important thing to finding someone.

Be honest with yourself.

1)  Would you want to date someone like you?  Why not?  Now fix that.

2)  What exactly are you looking for?  Long-term?  Short-term?  Smart, funny, beautiful, strong, assertive?  What made you turn down your last prospect?  Do you have realistic standards, or do you always manage to find something wrong with people?

3)  Here's a really touchy one--are you a misogynist?  Do you do anything that could be interpreted that way?  My experience is that nobody worth being with wants to be with someone who doesn't totally respect them.

4)  Why did your last relationship end?  Why did it begin?  What can you learn from that?

Take things one step at a time.  Most people don't go out hunting for "the one".  Most people are out there to have a good time, get to know someone, and see what develops.  If you're needy or pushy in any way, they'll take off runnin'. 

Best of luck to you.  Keep in mind--it's ok to be single.  Sometimes it's GREAT to be single.  What happens if you spend the rest of your life without a single partner?  Is that something you can learn to accept, and even enjoy?

Spider


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## loki44 (Jun 8, 2005)

Two words:  Eastern Europe

I recently took a trip to Lithuania and believe-you-me, if I was single I wouldn't have made it home.  The women are gorgeous but also intelligent, sweet, ambitious and just plain nice.  I imagine you'll find a similar situation in Czech Republic, Slovakia, Bulgaria, etc...

Head East young man!


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## der_kluge (Jun 8, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I could stand to lose some weight, but I am fairly attractive. I had quite a few girlfriends in middle and high school.
> 
> der_kluge, I have that book. My parents bought it for me out of sympathy for my situation. It deals more on how to have a physical relationship with women. I'm not looking for that. I need an emotional relationship.
> 
> ...





I had it as well. I stopped reading at about chapter 8 or so, once it started talking about how to dump girls.

Maybe the problem is the area?  My wife has noted differences in the dating scene from one area to another. She commented that it was incredibly hard to meet people in Wichita, KS, but easier in Kansas City. So, I think it can be hard to meet people geographically sometimes.

What do you do, socially?


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## der_kluge (Jun 8, 2005)

Does anyone here have a mail-order bride (assuming that there really is such a thing anymore)?  I worked with a guy who had a beautiful wife from Bulgaria, and when asked he said "he met her on the internet". I always suspected he met her through a European dating service. For the record, this guy was like a total nerd, and his wife was like totally hot.

Anyway, a friend of mine, as a joke got me one of those "European Connections" catalogs. The name is a misnomer, since they are all Russian, or from a Soviet state.  It's basically a travel service. You pay a lot of money to fly overseas through their agency and then meet lots of women, who pay their own money to arrive in Moscow, say, and go there to attend the seminar. Women there truly are desperate for men. It was an interesting thing to read. I guess a lot of Russian men are unemployed, and are basically alcoholics. So, if you have a job, and aren't addicted to Vodka, you've got a leg up on many Russian men. The catalog went on to say that Russian women tend to be very old-fashioned, and like to cook and clean, and raise a family. But a lot of the ones in the catalog had professional degrees, and spoke fluent English.

It's expensive, and it probably doesn't work out in many cases, and it can be extremely hard to pull off, but it seems like a completely viable way to meet a wife. Obviously the women would prefer that you move to Russia so they don't have to leave family, but they realize that that's not really an option.


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## der_kluge (Jun 8, 2005)

The only other advice I can give is to make sure that all of your friends/family/coworkers know that you are actively looking.

My wife had a single girlfriend that we were always trying to hook up with someone. If nothing else we managed to go on about 3 double dates with her (none of them panned out), but we certainly tried.

I met my wife through a co-worker at work. His wife was my wife's boss. Find a social worker. They're a ton of attractive female social workers who don't have time for a life because they're job keeps them too busy.  At the gathering where my I met my wife, I could have had my pick of about 6 girls who were all single. They were all social workers.


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## Hijinks (Jun 8, 2005)

> Then, Internet is a sure way to NOT meet your soulmate.




I have met several intelligent and kind men online.  So I disagree with the above statement, to an extent.  I do not, most definitely, respond to the emails saying "Hey baby here's my number, call me!"  That, for sure, is not the way to do it.  Not that I'm suggesting that's what you're doing, but just pointing it out.



> it not that I need a significant other, more want to feel completion.




I see this as a problem.  A woman isn't going to complete you, she will compliment you.  You need to be complete and happy with yourself, before you can give yourself, and receive in return, to/from a woman successfully.  I was alone for many years and finally became happy and content with myself as a person, and then I started going out and looking for a significant other to complement me.  I never needed, nor will I ever need, a man by my side to feel complete; I AM complete, just as I am.  May I humbly suggest thinking about that, and trying to love yourself and be happy being alone, before you go out and search too earnestly?  Because that will help with the neediness that turns women off.


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## vermicious knid (Jun 8, 2005)

Don't give up. Get out and socialize. Participate in activiities that YOU like that might also interest females. Be yourself, try not to reek of desperation.

Don't despair. Even the most pathetic loser (not that I'm casting any such aspersion) can find someone.


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## Darkness (Jun 8, 2005)

*Had to remove a pic*

Pictures might say more than 1,000 words, but digs at uninvolved posters are kind of a drag nonetheless.


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## alsih2o (Jun 8, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> <sigh> I'm tired of waiting. I know I am blessed for having a family that really cares about me, but it isn't enough., I have too much love to give to go through my life alone. I've tried multiple internet 'dating' sites and never even got a nibble.
> 
> I'm tired of being alone. I had to get this off my chest, I'm just so sick of being alone in a world of millions.




 Millions of people need someone who do not have sex or a monogamous relationship to offer.

 Too much love to give? I guarantee you here is a community of the mentally or physically handicapped in your area dying for a volunteer. An old folks home. A lonely, elderly widow on your block. A humane shelter full of abandoned animals. A big brother program.

 You can share your love with the folks who need it or admit what you want isn't someone to share your "too much love" with, but that you are wanting what you get back form someone or wanting sex.

 There are too many people and organizations longing for help to be lonely and have a surplus of love. Find them, or be realistic about what you really want.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 8, 2005)

BelenUmeria said:
			
		

> Dude, just stop caring about it.  Women can smell needy a thousand miles away.  Stop caring about what they think about you and put all your fears away.  Do not be afraid to talk with people etc.




Yup. We can smell out needy and desperate a mile away!!! The best thing to do is try to be friends without being desperate. Be yourself. Be funny and creative. Try to have fun. And see that she does as well. Make sure you make her feel like you actually care about her, instead of just caring about yourself and the only thing you'd really want: to get her into your bed to "score". There's women for that: they're called prostitutes.

As for me, I have a great male friend who's scared of another relationship after the ones he's had before turned very sour on him. My main goal there is to be a friend to him. To give him someone to talk to. And to care about him. If it turns into a relationship, that's fine. He's a great guy to be around and very sociable. But if it doesn't, then I hope to still remain friends with him. That's the main thing. To be friends first and lovers second. That way if being lovers doesn't work out, then, hopefully, you can still be friends. 

And don't judge a potential partner by how he/she dresses and how much money they have. Not all are rich or at least middle-class income level. Even us po' folk need people too...


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## alsih2o (Jun 8, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Make sure you make her feel like you actually care about her, instead of just caring about yourself and the only thing you'd really want: to get her into your bed to "score". There's women for that: they're called prostitutes.




 Surely you are not saying that any woman who has sex for the sake of sex is a prostitute? That would be mean, rude and unrealistic.

 Women have physical needs as well and many of them fulfill them outside of a lasting relationship. Do you really not understand that? Or do you really think any woman who has sex with a man who doesn't "actually care about her" is a prostitute?


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## alsih2o (Jun 8, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> If it turns into a relationship, that's fine. He's a great guy to be around and very sociable. But if it doesn't, then I hope to still remain friends with him. That's the main thing. To be friends first and lovers second. That way if being lovers doesn't work out, then, hopefully, you can still be friends.




 Surely you can see the benefit of being lovers first and friends second.

 That way if being friends doesn't work out you can still be lovers. Yes?

 I mean, you wouldn't pass moral judgement on a modern woman who fulfilled her physical needs outside a romantic relationship would you?


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

BelenUmeria said:
			
		

> I met my wife in a Barnes and Noble.  I helped her choose a book.





I met the friend I was talking about in my earlier post at Stellarcon. Started talking to him at the con, commissioned a couple of character portraits off him (he's an artist), and then really started talking to him over AIM when all I was intending to do was ask about the progress on the pics....


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> But - you've got my ear... I never mind being someone's venting outlet.





Sounds like me.... venting outlet for several of my male friends probs.. Which I don't mind unless it becomes the only topic of conversation. Then it gets old, REAL QUICK.


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## BOZ (Jun 9, 2005)

believe it or not, i met my wife when i finally realized (after banging my head against the wall enough times) that i could be happy without being in a relationship.  

of course, i decided that being happy in a relationship was better than being happy without one.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 9, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> I see this as a problem.  A woman isn't going to complete you, she will compliment you.  You need to be complete and happy with yourself, before you can give yourself, and receive in return, to/from a woman successfully.




**High Fives Hijinks** Right on.


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## Alzrius (Jun 9, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I have had faith for so long that I'd find that special someone by putting my life in the hands in the one from up above...




I'm trying not to be cold, nor lacking in compassion, but you need to do more than look up and ask "when?" if you want a life mate. There's no guarantees in life, and nothing says anyone is owed finding someone to spend their life with. People can and do live alone and die alone. Even the people who find someone more often than not end up divorcing (or being divorced by) that person. There is no one person anyone is destined to be with, and no one is out there waiting for each person specifically.

Simply expecting that you'd be handed someone by a higher power, that sounds like the cause of your disappointment.



> _<sigh> I'm tired of waiting._




Then act.



> _I know I am blessed for having a family that really cares about me, but it isn't enough._




This sort of concept bothers me; what is "enough"? Why isn't having a loving family enough? Why isn't love for yourself enough? Why is it that we're so driven to have to find someone else to make us feel complete? I feel it's better to look inward, and find this apparently gaping hole that we feel only a life with another can fill, and fill it. Love yourself, and you can be complete.



> _I have too much love to give to go through my life alone._




How much you have to give isn't the issue. You can show your love for people all sorts of ways, to all sorts of people. It's lack of receiving that you're bemoaning. Don't say that it's that you have no one to give to, because you do.



> _I'm just so sick of being alone in a world of millions._




This is nitpicking, but it's billions. The world population passed six billion a few years back.


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## msd (Jun 9, 2005)

For my part, I am simply amazed to find a thread that Crothian hasn't posted in...things seem so out of place.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Der Kluge said:
			
		

> The only other advice I can give is to make sure that all of your friends/family/coworkers know that you are actively looking.




I dunno about that one.... my sister hooked me up years ago with some creepy guy... UGH! And the coworkers I have haven't left me alone since I brought my friend up there a couple of times... They're busy trying to play "cupid" with the two of us... Never mind the fact he's scared of another relationship after the messy ones he'd had... and I don't want to push him before he's ready... He's got alot of female friends just like I have a bunch of male friends... 




			
				Hijinks said:
			
		

> I have met several intelligent and kind men online.  So I disagree with the above statement, to an extent.  I do not, most definitely, respond to the emails saying "Hey baby here's my number, call me!"  That, for sure, is not the way to do it.  Not that I'm suggesting that's what you're doing, but just pointing it out.




I've met a few nice guys online. But I wonder just how nice they are in real life.... Granted the few I've talked with on message boards like this one seem to be cool....  




> I see this as a problem.  A woman isn't going to complete you, she will compliment you.  You need to be complete and happy with yourself, before you can give yourself, and receive in return, to/from a woman successfully.  I was alone for many years and finally became happy and content with myself as a person, and then I started going out and looking for a significant other to complement me.  I never needed, nor will I ever need, a man by my side to feel complete; I AM complete, just as I am.  May I humbly suggest thinking about that, and trying to love yourself and be happy being alone, before you go out and search too earnestly?  Because that will help with the neediness that turns women off.




It's just like I don't feel the need to have a man to "complete my life" but I'd like to have someone to share life with. To have someone who really cares and loves you. For who you are. Not to make you into whatever HE wants but appreciate you for who YOU are. If they can't appreciate you for being YOU, then what good are they?


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## Lazzerous (Jun 9, 2005)

Just for the record, I've met the last two ladies I have been with on the internet.  The first one I had planned on spending the rest of my life with and unfortunaly she passed away (but the 4 years we were together were the best she definatly complimented me and I her).  My new girlfriend is also quite wonderful.  So as for the internet it works for those who ewant it to.

Instead of not caring one way or the other, try not worrying about it and working to hard to find somebody.  It will happen.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> Surely you are not saying that any woman who has sex for the sake of sex is a prostitute? That would be mean, rude and unrealistic.
> 
> Women have physical needs as well and many of them fulfill them outside of a lasting relationship. Do you really not understand that? Or do you really think any woman who has sex with a man who doesn't "actually care about her" is a prostitute?




Just cause we women have physical needs too doesn't mean that should be the ONLY thing that guys should center on. We also have other needs as well, emotional and mental needs. If that's all you want in a woman fine, but I (as a woman) would like more than just having sex.




			
				alsih2o said:
			
		

> Surely you can see the benefit of being lovers first and friends second.
> 
> That way if being friends doesn't work out you can still be lovers. Yes?
> 
> I mean, you wouldn't pass moral judgement on a modern woman who fulfilled her physical needs outside a romantic relationship would you?




I prefer having friends moreso than lovers. Granted that I haven't had a lover but have had friends... I guess that would make my POV kinda skewed....   

I wouldn't want for someone to have to cheat in a relationship just to "fulfill her physical needs". We want more than the "wham, bam, thank you ma'am!" kind of relationship. At least, I'd hope so....


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## alsih2o (Jun 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Just cause we women have physical needs too doesn't mean that should be the ONLY thing that guys should center on. We also have other needs as well, emotional and mental needs. If that's all you want in a woman fine, but I (as a woman) would like more than just having sex.




 This didn't address my question at all.


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## ForceUser (Jun 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I've met a few nice guys online.



Personally, I find dating--the whole ball of trying to meet someone, going out, worrying about the impression one makes, spending money on restaurants/movies/theatre/etc.--to be a chore. I dated throughout my twenties. I'm over it. I just do my own thing these days and meet people along the way. Some turn out to be great friends, others casual pals, a very few potential partners, but most forgettable.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> This didn't address my question at all.




Sorry. But that's my POV on the whole thing.   



			
				ForceUser said:
			
		

> Personally, I find dating--the whole ball of trying to meet someone, going out, worrying about the impression one makes, spending money on restaurants/movies/theatre/etc.--to be a chore. I dated throughout my twenties. I'm over it. I just do my own thing these days and meet people along the way. Some turn out to be great friends, others casual pals, a very few potential partners, but most forgettable.




Me too. That's probably why I aim to have friends moreso than trying to find a date.... and if something comes out of it, then cool... but if nothing, then there's no worries there. And we all have fun in the process.   Just hanging out with friends is worthwile, IMO.


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Jun 9, 2005)

Buy a big cute dog. Find your local dog park and go there often. If you don't have a dog park, a well-trafficked walking path will do as well.  Trust me, you'll have to fight off the ladies with a stick.  Cute dogs are like the spanish fly of the 21st century.

And if you don't meet a girl, you'll accomplish two things.  1. You'll have a nice companion who will never fight with you or cheat on you.  2. You'll get some fresh air and a little exercise too.


----------



## loki44 (Jun 9, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Anyway, a friend of mine, as a joke got me one of those "European Connections" catalogs. The name is a misnomer, since they are all Russian, or from a Soviet state.  It's basically a travel service. You pay a lot of money to ...





Dude, don't pay anyone anything, especially sleazebags hawking women on the internet.  Just go.  It's a rock solid guarantee that you'll meet plenty of fine, talented, beautiful young ladies.


----------



## Land Outcast (Jun 9, 2005)

I realize I'm repeating what other people said here, but
Faith is important, You've gotta have faith in your ACTIONS
Not only be happy with yourself , but be confident about your actions
Everyone can sense confidence.


----------



## ZuulMoG (Jun 9, 2005)

*This thread reminds me...*

...I need to advertise.

93 minutes straight, 7 times (for her).  Single employed male in NYS seeks SF for monogamous relationship, eye toward marriage/family desired, but not required.  See above, references available upon request.  Reply via e-mail to m3gal0man1acATyahoo.com (replace AT with @)

Fruthaka, I'm in the same boat as you, but 7 years farther down the road.  You're not alone, and the competetion is vicious and mean.  Take me for example.


----------



## Starman (Jun 9, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> This is nitpicking, but it's billions. The world population passed six billion a few years back.





A billion is 1,000 million, so his statement wasn't really wrong. 

Starman


----------



## jdavis (Jun 9, 2005)

Couple of hints for you:

-Get out of the house and meet people, just be around people and meet as many people as you can, expand your friend group and just learn how to talk to all sorts of different people. It doesn't take money to get out of the house and be around people, just get out there. You will meet no one sitting alone in your house. (being with friends while out will help when it comes to talking to new people too, groups breed confidence).

-Get over yourself and get on with your life. Lets face it you might never meet anybody you can spend the rest of your life with or you might meet a dozen different people next week. You still got to live your life though. The only thing that can complete you is you, having a girlfriend or wife will not automatically make you any better or more complete. Stop worrying about it and just get on with your life, this type of self pity party is like kryptonite to women, nobody wants to be around somebody who is like that (and believe me women know, even if your bright and cheerful on the outside they have pity party radar). You got to be happy and confident and self fulfilled all on your own first, self confidence draws them in faster than anything else.

-A friend of mine back in High School gave me the best dating advice I've ever heard. "Ask everybody out, even if you have to ask 100 girls out all you got to do is get one to say yes and you have a date". Talk to women and don't be scared to ask and get shot down, what's the worst thing they could say? No. If you never ask anybody out for a date then you will never go out on a date. The more women you talk to and ask the better your chances of getting that one to say yes will be.


----------



## KenM (Jun 9, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> I have had faith for so long that I'd find that special someone by putting my life in the hands in the one from up above...






   Thats what I did last year. The one from above sent me someone I thought was my soulmate and we really hit it off. I was so happy for awhile. Then I found out that person was deciving me from the start and not anything like I thought she was, She is a major pot addict. I'm still devistated by this so its back to what I used to do for female company.
     Escort servies are the way to go, you get what you want, she gets what she wants (money) and you don't have to go though all that BS of buying them crap or taking them to dinner or any of that stuff. So either way, you are still spending money to get what you want. Weather its paying for an escort or paying for dinner, you still spend money to get what you want, so its no big deal.


----------



## Angel Tarragon (Jun 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Escort servies are the way to go, you get what you want, she gets what she wants (money) and you don't have to go though all that BS of buying them crap or taking them to dinner or any of that stuff.



What services do escort services provide? I am aware that there are a couple in my area.


----------



## KenM (Jun 9, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> What services do escort services provide? I am aware that there are a couple in my area.




  Well, that subject can get this thread closed fast. Lets just say they provide female (or male), comapionship for a time. What You two decide to do together is up to you.


----------



## Angel Tarragon (Jun 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Well, that subject can get this thread closed fast. Lets just say they provide female (or male), comapionship for a time. What You two decide to do together is up to you.



Well, quite frankly, I'm not interested in a physical relationship.


----------



## KenM (Jun 9, 2005)

With akk the crap I have put up with from women over the year. "Your a nice guy, but I just want to be friends." The kiss of death.  Escort services are good for me. But it does not have to be physical with them. Thats just what I need need because all the other female relationships I have had ended badly, so God must not want me to be happy. But I need to have my physical needs fullfilled, so it works for me.


----------



## Turanil (Jun 9, 2005)

msd said:
			
		

> For my part, I am simply amazed to find a thread that Crothian hasn't posted in...



I think I am going to take that for signature!! LOL!


----------



## Empress (Jun 9, 2005)

With regards to internet dating, I can only say that nowadays I think it's a perfectly viable meeting ground. You can definitely talk to each other better than in a discotheque, and I know more than one couple who met on the net. Even if you're just looking for sex, the internet can help you, as there's AFF and similar sites.

The danger of being lied to is greater on the internet since the lie can extend to the whole appearance/age of the prospective partner, but it's certainly worth a shot. You should just keep to sites specific to that so you don't come off as too needy or creepy.

And don't, I can only stress this, _don't_ talk to her about how lonely you are and in need of a long-term emotional relationship.


----------



## Bagpuss (Jun 9, 2005)

alsih2o said:
			
		

> There are too many people and organizations longing for help to be lonely and have a surplus of love. Find them, or be realistic about what you really want.




And as an added incentive some of these organizations have lonely women with a surplus of love at them too.


----------



## Bagpuss (Jun 9, 2005)

Empress said:
			
		

> The danger of being lied to is greater on the internet since the lie can extend to the whole appearance/age*/sex* of the prospective partner, but it's certainly worth a shot.




Fixed it for you.


----------



## Scotley (Jun 9, 2005)

jdavis said:
			
		

> Couple of hints for you:
> -A friend of mine back in High School gave me the best dating advice I've ever heard. "Ask everybody out, even if you have to ask 100 girls out all you got to do is get one to say yes and you have a date". Talk to women and don't be scared to ask and get shot down, what's the worst thing they could say? No. If you never ask anybody out for a date then you will never go out on a date. The more women you talk to and ask the better your chances of getting that one to say yes will be.




The Spammer's approach to dating.


----------



## Bagpuss (Jun 9, 2005)

Scotley said:
			
		

> The Spammer's approach to dating.




I use to call it the "Uzi technique" myself, "Put enough lead out you're bound to hit something." Tended to use it at the end of an evening, if I was short the cab fair home. 

Never failed, and occasionally lead to lasting relationships. It works for a number of reasons, but its important that it isn't used because you are desperate, its works because you really don't care if you get rejected. Women pick up on that sort of carefree confidence, that and you can bet if you ask enough women you will find one that is also lonely, shy and with "too much love", or that other men haven't been brave enough to approach (because they are so good looking).


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 9, 2005)

ron-burgundy said:
			
		

> *Sigh* Do you have an AIM S/N I can have so I can deal with you properly?



Aaaannnd.... the ignore list gets used again.  Dude, you've been nothing but a litany of childish insults in this entire thread.  Not only does it distract from the topic and mire the thread down in inanities, but it also brings down the whole "vibe" of the boards.  Folks don't come to ENWorld for petty wrangling like that.

To not be off-topic; Frukathka, I wouldn't worry too much about it.  Being single and 29 is not exactly uncommon.  I do think there's some great advice in this thread, particularly the "don't try so hard" and the "be comfortable with yourself first" variety.  Dealing with women (I'm assuming you're looking for a woman -- I don't suppose it'd be any different if not, though) in potentially romantic scenarios is always stressful and difficult, because people aren't used to it, and most of us don't really get much practice.  I think the key, though, is to never _look_ like your stressed or nervous.  Confident, comfortable and relaxed.  If you're not confident, comfortable and relaxed, at least _pretend_ that you are.

I think it'll improve your interactions with the opposite sex (again, assuming) dramatically if you do.  Of course, that only gets you so far; you have to actually invite your potential date to go do something.  You have to train yourself to not be afraid of rejection, too, so you're not standing there with your hat in your hand and big puppy dog eyes.  Relaxed.  Confident.  Comfortable.  Lay your groundwork, and then just ask directly.  If she says no, no big deal.  Say something polite and move on.  If she says yes, continue one small step at a time.  Let it come naturally.  Don't "go for the big one" right away unless you're really getting a strong vibe that it's OK.

That's how I did it anyway.  My wife thought I was probably a bit too slow moving for her taste, but we were both ready for the next step, at least, when we took it.  It can work.  We just had our 11th anniversary a week or two ago.


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 9, 2005)

A couple of points -

Crothian is busy (as is Alsih2o, Cthulhu's Librarian, Teflon Billy, and PirateCat) all reading books for the Ennie awards. 

Secondly, Escort services are legitimiate services. I had a friend (a girl) who did this for a time. Apparently even went to Europe with some guy. Now, most people will tell you that being an escort is just a legitimate way of becoming a prostitute. But I like to think that you can be an escort and not have sex with your client. I'm sure many of them do that. Businessman will sometimes hire them for business dinners, if they are single. So, it's a perfectly legitimate service. No, I've never hired one. 

Frukathka, if you wanted to, you could hire an escort, take her out for the evening like a regular date, and then have her give you some candid advice on any vibes she's getting from you. That is, if you don't have any other female friend that can do this for you. Alternatively, it might help you become less anxious around women. I think for a long time I came across as too needy towards, women, and then once I met my wife, and I lost that, I was constantly seeing all these women that I could have gone up to and struck up a conversation with. I would never have thought of doing that before when I was scared. So, I think fear can play a large role in that. You just have to see women as people, and not as women. I can't describe it as any other way.

My psychology professor in college told us a story about his friend in college. He would approach random women and ask "Do you want to f*ck?"  His friend swore that 1 out of 10 would say yes.  I had a tagline once that read "Nice shoes, wanna f*ck?" And a female friend of mine confessed that that probably would have worked on her at one time.


----------



## Bagpuss (Jun 9, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Well, quite frankly, I'm not interested in a physical relationship.




Should work out cheaper for you then.


----------



## spatha (Jun 9, 2005)

BOZ said:
			
		

> believe it or not, i met my wife when i finally realized (after banging my head against the wall enough times) that i could be happy without being in a relationship.
> 
> of course, i decided that being happy in a relationship was better than being happy without one.



Same here. I had come off a relationship and just gotten over it and decided I didn't need anyone in my life. On the day I became an Uncle I was at work and in a great mood. All happy, smiley and jokey. In walks my wife to be a. Some one who I know and comes in to the bar about once a week. She notices me for the first time as more than just a manager and now this October we'll have been married for 3 years.


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 9, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> My psychology professor in college told us a story about his friend in college. He would approach random women and ask "Do you want to f*ck?"  His friend swore that 1 out of 10 would say yes.




Back in the day, before AIDS was such a scary spectre, I can back this claim up.


----------



## Bagpuss (Jun 9, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> My psychology professor in college told us a story about his friend in college. He would approach random women and ask "Do you want to f*ck?"  His friend swore that 1 out of 10 would say yes.




Ah but he isn't interested in a physical relationship, he'ld have to go up and say something like "Do you want to have a meaningful relationship?" and considerable less than 1 in 10 women say yes to that.


----------



## d20Dwarf (Jun 9, 2005)

ron-burgundy said:
			
		

> Yeah, he's one of those guys who try to sound all cool and smart by using big words.




Technically putting a bunch of extra "a"s and "n"s in "and" doesn't make it a big word.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

After I got married, I was amazed to _finally_ notice the women who flirted with me. I say finally because, until I met my future wife, I was pretty shy with women. I think it boils down to one thing: confidence. If you have confidence in yourself, women see that and are more likely to pay attention to you. Also, as others have said, if you step back stop looking for relationships, they usually will find you. So when you meet a pretty girl, instead of thinking "I wonder if I could have a relationship with her" you should think "She's nice; I'd like to get to know her better" and let the relationship form naturally.

And while I don't agree with everything ron burgundy has said, I do agree that it shouldn't matter what you look like, _shouldn't_ being the operative word, in order to attract women. I've seen some ugly dudes who some very beautiful women fawned over.


----------



## PowerWordDumb (Jun 9, 2005)

ron-burgundy said:
			
		

> Yeah, he's one of those guys who try to sound all cool and smart by using big words.




He _does_ tend to put the "bunch" in "panties".


----------



## Mystery Man (Jun 9, 2005)

A woman's needs can be boiled down to three basic things:

Things that smell good
Small bright shiny objects
Shoes
 
Remember this and you're golden.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 9, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> A woman's needs can be boiled down to three basic things:
> 
> Things that smell good
> Small bright shiny objects
> ...



 I would add things that are soft to this list.  Like teddy bears, and bunnies, and kittens...


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I would add things that are soft to this list.  Like teddy bears, and bunnies, and kittens...




Let's not forget raindrops on roses, whiskers on kittens, bright copper kettles, warm woolen mittens and brown paper packages tied up with strings.


----------



## Empress (Jun 9, 2005)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> A woman's needs can be boiled down to three basic things:
> 
> Things that smell good
> Small bright shiny objects
> ...



 As long as one of the good-smelling things is you


----------



## Mystery Man (Jun 9, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I would add things that are soft to this list.  Like teddy bears, and bunnies, and kittens...





And it only took me 36 years to figure that out too.   

p.s. I'm 36.


----------



## Mystery Man (Jun 9, 2005)

Empress said:
			
		

> As long as one of the good-smelling things is you





Why Empress...*bats eyelashes*


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 9, 2005)

PowerWordDumb said:
			
		

> He _does_ tend to put the "bunch" in "panties".



In more ways than one, IYKWIMAITYD.   

EDIT:  Looking back on that, there's actually more ways that can be taken than I intended...

Oh, well.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

PowerWordDumb said:
			
		

> He _does_ tend to put the "bunch" in "panties".




A bunch of what?


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 9, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> A bunch of what?



I was going to say a bunch of steaming hot manliness.  But that might imply that I wear panties, so I better not...

Eh, sorry, Frukathka, for further derailing your thread.      At least I did try to give you some advice, even if it wasn't anything that others weren't saying already...


----------



## ForceUser (Jun 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I was going to say a bunch of steaming hot manliness.  But that might imply that I wear panties, so I better not...
> 
> Eh, sorry, Frukathka, for further derailing your thread.      At least I did try to give you some advice, even if it wasn't anything that others weren't saying already...



Haven't you guys noticed? Ron Burgundy is trying to act like the actual character of Ron Burgundy. I picked up on it early, so I haven't been bothered.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

ForceUser said:
			
		

> Haven't you guys noticed? Ron Burgundy is trying to act like the actual character of Ron Burgundy. I picked up on it early, so I haven't been bothered.




That's not necessarily a good thing, especially when responding to those who haven't seen the movie.


----------



## ForceUser (Jun 9, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> That's not necessarily a good thing, especially when responding to those who haven't seen the movie.



Heheh, true.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I was going to say a bunch of steaming hot manliness.  But that might imply that I wear panties, so I better not...




_I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts_


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 9, 2005)

You keep your coconuts to yourself, young man!


----------



## Algolei (Jun 9, 2005)

Bagpuss said:
			
		

> Ah but he isn't interested in a physical relationship, he'ld have to go up and say something like "Do you want to have a meaningful relationship?" and considerable less than 1 in 10 women say yes to that.



Ha!  That used to be my favourite pickup line!


...I am so lonely....


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> After I got married, I was amazed to _finally_ notice the women who flirted with me. I say finally because, until I met my future wife, I was pretty shy with women. I think it boils down to one thing: confidence.



I noticed this, too, and I think there's more to it than just confidence: I think women actually have some sort of radar for men who are in a relationship. They won't notice you at all until you're in a relationship, and then, once you've proved you CAN be in one, you're a hot property. Ironic, since for most people (in monogamous relationships), actually getting that guy then means that they destroyed the relationship that prompted the attraction in the first place.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> I noticed this, too, and I think there's more to it than just confidence: I think women actually have some sort of radar for men who are in a relationship. They won't notice you at all until you're in a relationship, and then, once you've proved you CAN be in one, you're a hot property. Ironic, since for most people (in monogamous relationships), actually getting that guy then means that they destroyed the relationship that prompted the attraction in the first place.




And usually the woman who breaks up the relationship is _surprised_ when the man cheats on _her_.


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> And usually the woman who breaks up the relationship is _surprised_ when the man cheats on _her_.



Which further supports my notion that women _instictively_ (not consciously) expect a good man to be able to be in a relationship with more than one woman at once. But we probably don't want to go there.


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Which further supports my notion that women _instictively_ (not consciously) expect a good man to be able to be in a relationship with more than one woman at once. But we probably don't want to go there.



Wow, over the course of half a page, we've wandered from the uncomfortable image of me in a pair of panties to Torm making it with two gals at once.  As long as none of them are Anna Nicole...

Fru, I _really_ apologize!


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Wow, over the course of half a page, we've wandered from the uncomfortable image of me in a pair of panties to Torm making it with two gals at once.  As long as none of them are Anna Nicole...
> 
> Fru, I _really_ apologize!




I blame Torm.


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> As long as none of them are Anna Nicole...



And, as long as none of them are you in that pair of panties!


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I blame Torm.



I take full credit... er... blame for my own comments, but I have NOTHING to do with Joshua's feminine undergarments.


----------



## Storm Raven (Jun 9, 2005)

Start putting yourself in a position where (a) you can meet women, and (b) you aren't just trolling for a companion. Many people think that cruising the bars is a great way to meet women. It is _a_ way, but it's probably not the best.

Try, for example, getting involved with a local community theatre group. You don't have to act (though you can if you want to), getting involved on the technical side works out just as well. Many women like theatre, and the ratio of women to men is really favorable for a guy (not to mention the fact that, in my experience, a rather large percentage of men who are involved in such groups are gay).

Get involved with a church in your area. And when I say get involved, I don't mean go on Sunday (though I would suggest it). I mean participate in church activities, volunteer to help out and so on. If you wouldn't mind meeting a woman who is a single parent, volunteer to help with youth activities. And so on.

The most improtant thing is to get involved in activities where you are interacting with women, but not in a position where it looks like you are desperate to hook up. Show that you are a good guy to have around, the rest will come.


----------



## Remathilis (Jun 9, 2005)

Damn, I'm only 25 and beating myself up...

I found my problem though, I think the link below sums it up (flash comic for all you at work)

http://www.hoodyhoo.com/dt01.htm


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 9, 2005)

Storm Raven said:
			
		

> The most improtant thing is to get involved in activities where you are interacting with women, but not in a position where it looks like you are desperate to hook up. Show that you are a good guy to have around, the rest will come.




This really, really is the most important thing, Fru.  Find activities that you find enjoyable and fulfilling - and, at the same time, scope out the woman scene.  You'd be amazed how much easier it can be to find someone when you're engaged in activities you truly enjoy... and that they enjoy.

If you like books, join a book club.  If you like cooking, take a cooking class.  There are so many options that are both individually fulfilling, and could potentially allow you to cross paths with that special someone.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> Well, quite frankly, I'm not interested in a physical relationship.





There are people who think that having a physical relationship is the only one out there.... but it's not. There's more to a relationship than seeing how many times you can have sex in a week. Most of us women want more than just sex, sex and more sex. We want someone we can talk to and treat as an equal. An equal partnership: the hardest thing, it seems, that you can find out there because most are wanting not much more than to see how many times they can bang you in the bed....  :\


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

> Originally Posted by Mystery Man
> A woman's needs can be boiled down to three basic things:
> 
> Things that smell good
> ...






			
				Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I would add things that are soft to this list.  Like teddy bears, and bunnies, and kittens...





Don't forget money as well!   

We all love money! Especially when it's not ours!


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

Sorry for the semi-off-topic responses earlier - hadn't read the whole thread yet.

Fru, apologies if any of this repeats what others have said, but it seems to me like you need three things:

1. A better perspective on meeting women. Talk to women. "Hit" on them. Brood in a corner and wait for them to try to break your ice. Have style. Be a complete dork. It doesn't matter. In the end, your headstone may read "Devoted Husband", but almost no one ever had theirs read "Was really bad with women."  Be brave - most of them are CR 1, you can handle it.  

2. A woman-rich environment. Some have suggested theatre or church. Fine if you like those. Join social clubs that interest you. Get yourself places where women are (IRL, not on the 'net) and places where you feel like you have some reason to be ASIDE from women - make sure, for instance, that you enjoy the clubs. Meetup.com might be a good place to start.

3. A better perspective on yourself. You are awesome - not better than _everyone_ else, but better than most. Despite what some have said, don't worry so much about your physical appearance, aside from hygiene, any health issues you can take care of, and not dressing in ways that you KNOW are uncomplimentary to you in the eyes of women. Women do like the Brad Pitt types, but some women like skinny guys, some like big ole teddy bears, and mostly, in my experience, if they like YOU they will FIND things to like about your looks. You're an intelligent and well educated man, from what I've seen on the boards. Be "The Dude." You are, after all, blessed by Torm. 

Good luck. Have confidence. Really, dude, I am one of the biggest geeks you would ever meet, and I've been VERY successful. You can do it.


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> And, as long as none of them are you in that pair of panties!



OK, *now* you've really ratcheted up the uncomfortableness of the image...  me in a pair of panties posing as one of the two women you're with...


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Which further supports my notion that women _instictively_ (not consciously) expect a good man to be able to be in a relationship with more than one woman at once. But we probably don't want to go there.




Torm ain't part of the "House of the Triad" fer nothin'!!   They didn't say _what_ kind of "triad" it was there....   



			
				Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Wow, over the course of half a page, we've wandered from the uncomfortable image of me in a pair of panties to Torm making it with two gals at once. As long as none of them are Anna Nicole...
> 
> Fru, I really apologize!




What? You missed that alternative lifestyle thread a month or so ago?   Torm revealed all in that one!   



			
				Torm said:
			
		

> And, as long as none of them are you in that pair of panties!




Or you either, for that matter!!   

 



			
				Torm said:
			
		

> I take full credit... er... blame for my own comments, but I have NOTHING to do with Joshua's feminine undergarments.




Let's hope for all the deities sake that you don't!!!   

Boy.... let Torm into a thread like this and it tries to go downhill.... FAST!  :\ I see he's back his old "snarkiness" as before....   

But I'll take him posting over that ron burgundy twit any day!!!


----------



## Henry (Jun 9, 2005)

> A woman's needs can be boiled down to three basic things:
> Things that smell good



...like the paper of a freshly-printed RPG book...


> Small bright shiny objects



...Like Dwarven Stones Dice...


> Shoes



...of striding and Springing, or Spider Climbing.



What?


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> OK, *now* you've really ratcheted up the uncomfortableness of the image...  me in a pair of panties posing as one of the two women you're with...





  

Well... he _is_ a deity after all.... he could be with as many women as he wants to be!   

Fru: you could be like Torm: hit on various women who share the same interests as you on boards like this one....


----------



## Hijinks (Jun 9, 2005)

> Most of us women want more than just sex, sex and more sex.



 This is true, but don't negate the sex completely.  If you are in a relationship with a woman, and you don't make any moves whatsoever, and no sex ensues, she will begin to feel unwanted, undesirable, and that you don't have any interest at all; you may be wanting to go slowly or make sure it's right, but the woman doesn't know that.  Trust me, I've gone through this exact scenario in my life   From the woman's perspective, it hurts very much to not be wanted sexually.


----------



## the Lorax (Jun 9, 2005)

loki44 said:
			
		

> "He who delights in solitude is either a wild beast or a god."
> 
> Sir Francis Bacon




I've always been quite content with solitude.  
Being too pleasent to be a wild beast...


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (Jun 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Don't forget money as well!
> 
> We all love money! Especially when it's not ours!




You ladies have all forgotten another thing - good food.

If you think you would like it, I would echo the idea of a cooking class.  The class itself may not introduce you to the woman of your dreams, but being able to cook is often a major plus when you do meet women.  I do 90% of the cooking in my house. Many of my wife's friends are very jealous.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> <snip> some like big ole teddy bears, and mostly, in my experience, if they like YOU they will FIND things to like about your looks.




The Teddy Bear thing - totally true.  I definately prefer my men a wee on the chubby side.  They're soft, snuggly, make good pillows, and always make me feel very safe when all wrapped up with them.


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Fru: you could be like Torm: hit on various women who share the same interests as you on boards like this one....



Other than you, Fate pretty much REQUIRED me to "hit on" the only woman I've ever "hit on" on the 'net - she and I started talking through a message list for a band I'm a big fan of, and, simultaneously, she started talking to Mystra through a fantasy art forum. I'd LOVE to know the odds against THAT happening. 

But that was it. You were a special case. Especially since after that, I pretty much swore I'd never talk to women _online_ that way again. But I'm glad I did. Even though nothing came of it _that way_, you're still really cool.  

I've known a couple of people who have had relationships that started on the 'net that worked out, but considered how many people I know who have _tried_, it still is a very poor success rate.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 9, 2005)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> You ladies have all forgotten another thing - good food.
> I do 90% of the cooking in my house. Many of my wife's friends are very jealous.




Again - so true.  A man that can good a good meal is _totally_ hot.


----------



## PowerWordDumb (Jun 9, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> OK, *now* you've really ratcheted up the uncomfortableness of the image...  me in a pair of panties posing as one of the two women you're with...




It seems to me as an impartial observer - and I'm not making any specific accusations here - that you've taken far too quickly to the ideas in this emergent subthread, my friend.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Again - so true.  A man that can good a good meal is _totally_ hot.




My wife told me I should buy her this shirt because it's true.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Thornir Alekeg said:
			
		

> You ladies have all forgotten another thing - good food.
> 
> If you think you would like it, I would echo the idea of a cooking class.  The class itself may not introduce you to the woman of your dreams, but being able to cook is often a major plus when you do meet women.  I do 90% of the cooking in my house. Many of my wife's friends are very jealous.





Yup. We like not having to cook all the time and the man's excuse for dinner is always takeout. I had a boss who I told his wife that he should be in the doghouse for bringing home chicken from work for dinner when she asked for him to bring something....   

My new friend cooks. I was surprised when I went to his house the day I took him to the Enterprise finale and he'd cooked dinner. Granted he was down to his last 2 bucks....   But still, I was surprised and pleased to have home cooked food as opposed to fast food, which had been the alternative.... It's too bad he lives 2 hours away from me....


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Other than you, Fate pretty much REQUIRED me to "hit on" the only woman I've ever "hit on" on the 'net - she and I started talking through a message list for a band I'm a big fan of, and, simultaneously, she started talking to Mystra through a fantasy art forum. I'd LOVE to know the odds against THAT happening.




I dunno if Mr. Spock could even compute those odds....   



> But that was it. You were a special case. Especially since after that, I pretty much swore I'd never talk to women _online_ that way again. But I'm glad I did. Even though nothing came of it _that way_, you're still really cool.




Thanks.   

I think it took guts to come out in the first email and say what kind of relationship you were asking for, not knowing how I'd react to it.... 

And I think you're really cool too....   



> I've known a couple of people who have had relationships that started on the 'net that worked out, but considered how many people I know who have _tried_, it still is a very poor success rate.




I have a friend who had a bad experience with trying online dating.... But then I think he came over, like in RL, being pushy, needy and desperate....  :\ Personally, I've not tried it.... I talk with this new friend of mine via IM that I'd met at Stellarcon back in March. And then started talking via IM when all I was really wanting to do was see how far he'd gotten on some artwork I'd paid him to do... and been talking to him on a regular basis since then. Even took him to the Enterprise finale party, up here to see Episode III, and then gave him a ride to ConCarolinas in Charlotte since all his local "buddies" couldn't take him...


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I talk with this new friend of mine via IM that I'd met at Stellarcon back in March.



Right - but fortunately, that really isn't the same. You've MET.

The problem we had with Roxanne was that after talking online (and, rarely, on the phone) for months, we thought things were perfect. She came to stay with us for a week, and despite everything else, we discovered that personal chemistry put she and I at each others' throats more or less constantly when we were physically in the same room. I'm still not sure why. *Bad* situation. It is good that you have MET.


----------



## Hijinks (Jun 9, 2005)

> I've known a couple of people who have had relationships that started on the 'net that worked out, but considered how many people I know who have _tried_, it still is a very poor success rate.



 As compared to what, people who've met in bars?  People who've met in church?  I've had long-term relationships with two men that I met on Match.com and they were both satisfying relationships - until they ended, that is.  But any relationship that isn't met to be ends eventually.  These were no different than those I had with men I met in person somewhere.


----------



## Torm (Jun 9, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> As compared to what, people who've met in bars?



As you may have gotten from my last post, I think an upfront knowledge of personal chemistry is very helpful. That is an advantage pretty much everything else you mentioned has over meeting on the 'net.


----------



## FreeXenon (Jun 9, 2005)

I have not read the whole thread but there is a lot of good information here.

I think one of the most important things is to center your life. Try to become happy with yourself and making progress towards the person you want to be. Take a good look at what has been working and what has not in your life and then go from there. This may require restructuring your life or changing your priorities. Make a plan for becoming happy with yourself physically, professionally, and personally and the rest will follow. 

I will second, or third, whatever the Europeans. I have quite a few European (Czech Rep, Russia, Belarus, Germany, Lithuania, Bulgaria) friends and they alll rock. The most beautiful women I have ever seen (as an average representative for their country) is the Czech Rep, Prague specifically. Europeans (atleast the ones that I have met) have a different outlook on life. They seem more grounded and real, intelligent and family driven, and less prone to judge based on looks. I, for one, am happy about that, or I would be screwed.   I [MWM, Age 31] just married (2 weeks ago) a Belarussian and she rocks. While this, specifically, may not be practical (for the area you are from), if there are Europeans in your area talk to them - they're cool! 

Being happy with your life and yourself will lead to 2 things success and confidence... both of which are attractive traits. And as other's have said: How can you make someone else happy if you are not happy with yourself.



			
				Hijinks said:
			
		

> A woman isn't going to complete you, she will compliment you. You need to be complete and happy with yourself, before you can give yourself, and receive in return, to/from a woman successfully.



I'll Third that..


----------



## KenM (Jun 9, 2005)

Then you get women that give mixed signals, like my last relationship with the pot addict. 
" Yes, I kissed you on the mouth, but I did not mean it that way." one thing she said to me excatly. Or when she stayed overnight, many times, laying right against me in only one of my tshirts and her panties, but I could not do anything because we were just friends and she did not want to lead me on. Yup, I love it when women are totally straghtforward like this.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Right - but fortunately, that really isn't the same. You've MET.
> 
> The problem we had with Roxanne was that after talking online (and, rarely, on the phone) for months, we thought things were perfect. She came to stay with us for a week, and despite everything else, we discovered that personal chemistry put she and I at each others' throats more or less constantly when we were physically in the same room. I'm still not sure why. *Bad* situation. It is good that you have MET.




Sorry! Had you come to Stellarcon, I coulda met you as well..... And this wasn't expected, no siree.... I guess stranger things can happen....   


Are you sure this Roxanne wasn't Bane in disguise? Sure sounds like it.


----------



## reveal (Jun 9, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Are you sure this Roxanne wasn't Bane in disguise?




"You're Bane in disguise" - Wasn't that an Elvis song?


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> As you may have gotten from my last post, I think an upfront knowledge of personal chemistry is very helpful. That is an advantage pretty much everything else you mentioned has over meeting on the 'net.





Having a knowledge of personal chemistry does help. That and also having something in common with the person so you'd have SOMETHING to talk about over dinner. I like having people to talk to. Mostly it seems to be "geek-related" but the friend I have, I can talk a bit of history and get alot more detail of the same history in return; something I don't get much of elsewhere.... That, and also mutual attraction as well. It helps that you're attracted to the person and they to you as well. And that doesn't matter about one's looks either. Mostly it's attitude, personality and how you present yourself to others.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Then you get women that give mixed signals, like my last relationship with the pot addict.
> " Yes, I kissed you on the mouth, but I did not mean it that way." one thing she said to me excatly. Or when she stayed overnight, many times, laying right against me in only one of my tshirts and her panties, but I could not do anything because we were just friends and she did not want to lead me on. Yup, I love it when women are totally straghtforward like this.





Another friend of mine, who screwed up any sort of relationship we coulda ever had, blamed me for similar stuff like this- not knowing that I was inexperienced with being with guys as more than friends... but then he'd say that we're just friends, not dating, but act otherwise. 

So, don't just blame us gals for "mixed signals"... you guys are just as guilty as we are!


----------



## Lady_Acoma (Jun 10, 2005)

I have to agree that both guys and girls are both.  I have dated/not dated? both men and women who have sent out the confusing signals and I will frankly say that after a short time of it I just walk away cause they diddin't know what they wanted, but I did I just didn't know that it wouldn't be with them.


----------



## Lucrecio (Jun 10, 2005)

Someone suggested to ask as many women as possible for a date, not worrying about negative answers and doing it in a carefree way. Many people suggested this to me, but I've never been able to act like that (maybe I should lighten up...like you, Fru  )


Any suggestions? Comments?


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> I have to agree that both guys and girls are both.  I have dated/not dated? both men and women who have sent out the confusing signals and I will frankly say that after a short time of it I just walk away cause they diddin't know what they wanted, but I did I just didn't know that it wouldn't be with them.



In my experience, folks who send you all the signals and then deny that they mean anything are attention whores.  They can work as friends, but I'd keep them at arm's length, or considerably farther, when it comes to any other kind of relationship.  And I'd be wary of them as friends.  That's a symptom of extremely high maintainence, and not in a good way.


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

Lucrecio said:
			
		

> Someone suggested to ask as many women as possible for a date, not worrying about negative answers and doing it in a carefree way. Many people suggested this to me, but I've never been able to act like that (maybe I should lighten up...like you, Fru  )
> 
> Any suggestions? Comments?



Face to face social situations have always been relatively easy for me, so I don't know that I have too much practical advice.  My wife used to be really shy in larger groups, though, prefering smaller gatherings, and she just kept forcing herself to do it anyway until she was more social.

I've heard, although I don't know that I can vouch for this, that if you do it as "an act" you can break yourself in.  Psyche yourself up like an actor, and go out there and _pretend_ to be carefree.  After a while, you don't need to act anymore, you can do it, because you have done it.

That sounds a little flaky to me, personally, but I've heard it before, and it seems reasonable as a short term solution to shyness.


----------



## KenM (Jun 10, 2005)

My social skill's suck. Part of the reason for my lack of skills in that area is that I have Asperger Syndrome. So I don't like large gathering's either.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> My social skill's suck. Part of the reason for my lack of skills in that area is that I have Asperger Syndrome. So I don't like large gathering's either.





My social skillz suck as well. But then I was introverted for much of my life, preferring to live in the "shadow" of my younger, wilder sister. It's only been in the past 6 years or so that I've begun to "branch out" and get out of that introverted stage. I'm still shy around some but there's others that I can talk like crazy to, both here and RL. It depends on the person and somehow I pick up that this person is good to talk to or that one isn't worth me saying more than a "hello" to.


----------



## Xath (Jun 10, 2005)

Here's my advice for you. (and anyone, for that matter.)

There was a long while when I was completely uninterested in a relationship.  But I still had an inner need to care for someone and make a difference in someone's life.  So I started volunteering.  I did both Habitat for Humanity and I worked in soup kitchens.  It really helped fill the gap.  At the soup kitchen, you can help hundreds of people in one day, but I really liked working for Habitat.

You spend quite a bit of time working with a family on one house, building a relationship with them, and realizing that you've helped them have a brighter future.  It's a really amazing feeling when the house is finished and they walk through it for the first time.  That's quite the sense of completion/accomplishment.

Also, it is a little known fact that women far outnumber men at these types of things.  Since you (mostly) work with the same people on one house, there's ample opportunity to get to know people and build a good relationship along side the domicile.


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2005)

You should hook up with Xath. She's cute, and single.  

Or you could take a page from Lady Acoma's book, apparently she's bi.  Who was it that said, "go bi, because you immediately double your chances for getting a date on Friday night."


----------



## Lady_Acoma (Jun 10, 2005)

Sorry not bi, just didn't know or accept at least that I was a lesbian so for a long time I only dated guys.  However were I bi, I honestly (this being if I weren't already committed) date Fru cause he's an awesome and funny guy.


----------



## jdavis (Jun 10, 2005)

Lucrecio said:
			
		

> Someone suggested to ask as many women as possible for a date, not worrying about negative answers and doing it in a carefree way. Many people suggested this to me, but I've never been able to act like that (maybe I should lighten up...like you, Fru  )
> 
> 
> Any suggestions? Comments?



Well don't act like a moron doing it and things will work out fine. I think the big thing is to talk to a lot of women about a lot of things, just have conversations with them and then if you have any interest ask them out. Running up to women and blurting out  "hey wanna date me?" won't make matters any better, but most people can use the practice just having a normal conversation with someone of the opposite sex. Besides if you have problems talking to women then how do you think a date will go? Besides if you don't talk to women your chances of ever dating one go way way down. 

As far as shrugging of the "no" answers go, if you can have a normal conversation with somebody then chances are they aren't going to run off screaming or mace you when you ask them out. A casual or friendly "no" isn't something to loose any sleep over nor is it always the end of the story. One of the best friends I've ever had in my life is a woman who shot me down immediatly, we kept talking and became close friends, over the years her friendship helped me to get my life in order and became very important to me. Meeting new people is generally considered a good thing, even if they don't want to go out with you.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> ...The best thing to do is try to be friends without being desperate. Be yourself. Be funny and creative. Try to have fun. And see that she does as well. Make sure you make her feel like you actually care about her, instead of just caring about yourself and the only thing you'd really want: to get her into your bed to "score"...




Terrible advice. Truly terrible.

You will be placed on her "Good Friends" list in no time flat.

I post this to every thread like this, and it is always true: be a bit mean and indifferent towards her.

I have no idea why women go for it, but they do.

I'll post a quote from another thread by ..well...me



			
				Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Women talk a good game about liking "nice guys with a sense of humour" and suchlike. But in my experience (and that of most every guy I know; inlcuding my Grandfather, my English Prof, a Professional Wrestler, a "Hairstylist to the Stars" and a Deacon, to give you some notion of the range of folks I'm describing here) there is no doubt that it was no accident that our culture developed the proverb Nice guys finish last.
> 
> Because they do.
> 
> ...


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Then you get women that give mixed signals, like my last relationship with the pot addict.
> " Yes, I kissed you on the mouth, but I did not mean it that way." one thing she said to me excatly. Or when she stayed overnight, many times, laying right against me in only one of my tshirts and her panties, but I could not do anything because we were just friends and she did not want to lead me on. Yup, I love it when women are totally straghtforward like this.




I'd have gone for it.

A girl in my bed with me, in nothing but panties?

At some point you just have t oplay the cards you are dealt. If she didn't mean it "That way" I'd call her a cab.

I've done _exactly_ that come to think of it.

I wonder what makes a woman think I'm a eunuch?

Sleep on my couch? Fine. See you in the morning.

Sleep in my bed clothed? OK, message recieved.

Get undressed and get into bed with me? IT'S ON!!!


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> In my experience, folks who send you all the signals and then deny that they mean anything are attention whores.




That has long been my assumption as well.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

Frukathka said:
			
		

> der_kluge, I have that book. My parents bought it for me out of sympathy for my situation. It deals more on how to have a physical relationship with women. I'm not looking for that. I need an emotional relationship....




Then this whole thread should've ended when AlsiH2o posted the following comment 

[bq]Too much love to give? I guarantee you here is a community of the mentally or physically handicapped in your area dying for a volunteer. An old folks home. A lonely, elderly widow on your block. A humane shelter full of abandoned animals. A big brother program.

You can share your love with the folks who need it or admit what you want isn't someone to share your "too much love" with, but that you are wanting what you get back form someone or wanting sex.

There are too many people and organizations longing for help to be lonely and have a surplus of love. Find them, or be realistic about what you really want.[/bq]

Pay extra attention to the final sentence there man.

If you just want somoen to think you are special and appreciate you without any physical pleasuring, then just go volunteer somewhere.

It would seem alittle hollow to me (and I can't imagine much intimacy would be in the works) but if what you are really looking for is a platonic relationship (as you claim to be) then these are _not_ hard to come by.

But I suspect that isn't the case.


----------



## KenM (Jun 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> I'd have gone for it.
> 
> A girl in my bed with me, in nothing but panties?
> 
> ...




  She was in on of my tshirts and panties, not just panties. I did try and go for it, but she kept moving my hands to "safe" places. I did not want to be a total ass because she told me in the past she was assulted a few times, so I had to be real careful. I did not want her to think i was doing the same thing and then get in legal trouble, ect.. Maybe I was too much of a nice guy in that way.


----------



## Ravellion (Jun 10, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She was in on of my tshirts and panties, not just panties. I did try and go for it, but she kept moving my hands to "safe" places. I did not want to be a total ass because she told me in the past she was assulted a few times, so I had to be real careful. I did not want her to think i was doing the same thing and then get in legal trouble, ect.. Maybe I was too much of a nice guy in that way.



Way too nice.

If she moves your hand away to safe places, keep it there for a while, then move it back. If she then again moves your hand away to safe places, keep it there for a while, then move it back to an 'unsafe place'. Keep going until she gives a clear signal.

Think of it as a conversation (don't actually say anything  ):
"I want you" (move hand to bum)
"I am not sure" (moves hand to lower back)
"Really? What can I do to make up your mind?" (move hand to thigh)
"I don't know..." (move hand to hip)
"We could have a really good time... trust me" (move hand to shoulder, brush against side of breast)
etc.


Keep going until you get one of the following two:
1) "Look this is jsut not going to work... where's the sofa?"
2) *not moves hand away* - I hope you can take it from here.

A win-win situation for you!

Rav


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> You should hook up with Xath. She's cute, and single.




Not true, actually... well, the part about her being cute is true... but - Xath has a loving and wonderful boyfriend that she's been with for quite some time (approaching a year soon, I believe.)    *claps for Xath and Archon (Gertie and Mik in real life)*

Though AlsiH2o's/Xath's/TB's advice is really, really great.  Sharing all of the love you have with the local animal shelter, assisted living facility, soup kitchen, Big Brother Program, children's hospital, etc is really a wonderful way to feel loved in return.

I think that everyone knows what it is like to give and give and give in some area of their life and - in the end - have their proverbial "cup" left empty for lack of returns.  However - sharing your passion, compassion, and love in these fields will - no doubt - yield a surplus and your proverbial "cup" would be full to overflowing... and when that happens, you are truly happy.


----------



## Henry (Jun 10, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I think that everyone knows what it is like to give and give and give in some area of their life and - in the end - have their proverbial "cup" left empty for lack of returns.  However - sharing your passion, compassion, and love in these fields will - no doubt - yield a surplus and your proverbial "cup" would be full to overflowing... and when that happens, you are truly happy.




You know, volunteering would have one other effect - it would raise your skills at social interaction and any problems with self-esteem. The more centered and complete you get as yourself, the more your chances of finding a meaningful relationship will improve.

Not saying you should, it's just something to think about.


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2005)

I had a roommate who was a walking soap opera. I don't recommend that you be like him, but he certainly had no problems in this area. 

He commented that every time he went to church, he had more women than he could beat off with a stick.

So, if you're into church, give that a shot. Attend a couple.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> I had a roommate who was a walking soap opera. I don't recommend that you be like him, but he certainly had no problems in this area.
> 
> He commented that every time he went to church, he had more women than he could beat off with a stick.
> 
> So, if you're into church, give that a shot. Attend a couple.




Am I alone in thinking that going to church with the express purpose to get chicks is ... wrong?


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Terrible advice. Truly terrible.
> 
> You will be placed on her "Good Friends" list in no time flat.




It's better than the "enemies" list...   

And being friends is not bad... that way if a relationship doesn't work out, then hopefully, you two can remain friends afterwards. I may have alot of male friends but am not wanting to push it with the one friend because he had a really BAD relationship a few years ago and is afraid of getting hurt again. That and I've only known him for 2.5/nearly 3 months...   I also have a feeling that his parents/family don't like be just 'cause I'm a friend of his who was willing to drive THAT far to take him places...   That's ok, 'cause I have no respect for them either, for the way they treat him (like dog 
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





 ). 

But I feel that it should be friends first, lovers second. Only because it'd be nice to have them still be friends no matter how the relationship turns out.... If it gets serious, then COOL, but if it doesn't, then there's being friends. Which is alot better than hating one another. Life's too short to hate people.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Life's too short to hate people.




Amen to that!


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She was in on of my tshirts and panties, not just panties.




Wait a minute... she was wearing your panties?

Dude... that's kinky.


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Am I alone in thinking that going to church with the express purpose to get chicks is ... wrong?




You'd have to know my roommate. The phrase "no morals" comes to mind.


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's better than the "enemies" list...




Maybe, but neither one of 'em is getting laid.




> But I feel that it should be friends first, lovers second. Only because it'd be nice to have them still be friends no matter how the relationship turns out.... If it gets serious, then COOL, but if it doesn't, then there's being friends. Which is alot better than hating one another. Life's too short to hate people.




No, I second TB here. Women rarely sleep with their "friends". Any guy will tell you this. Being a "friend" to a girl is a deathwish for a guy who is actually interested in the girl. No, the order should be:
Lust
Friendship

In that order. That's what happened with my wife and I. We're great friends now, but sometimes I miss the "lust" phase of our relationship.


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Wait a minute... she was wearing your panties?
> 
> Dude... that's kinky.



Hey!  That's my routine!


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> You'd have to know my roommate. The phrase "no morals" comes to mind.



 I know plenty of those types.  Back before my married days - there were plenty of young men at my church that had no reason to be there outside of scoring a hot innocent Christian girl... but - at the same time - there were plenty of young women there happy to play that game.

Church is a *really* interesting place.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Maybe, but neither one of 'em is getting laid.
> 
> 
> 
> ...





I'd be more apt to sleep with a friend than a stranger. I'd like to KNOW the guy I'm gonna sleep with! 

Frankly, you guys need to get your brains out of your Levi's and actually THINK for once!   We women would like to have more than just sex, ya know.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

> Originally Posted by der_kluge
> Wait a minute... she was wearing your panties?
> 
> Dude... that's kinky.






			
				Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Hey!  That's my routine!




Only 'cause Torm turned you on like that?


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Terrible advice. Truly terrible.
> 
> You will be placed on her "Good Friends" list in no time flat.
> 
> ...




I agree this works in a great many instances, but not all.  In my single days, I played the nice guy card, and consequently dated a LOT.  The relationships started out as "he's such a nice guy to be friends with" and the majority of those ended up being "friends with benefits".  I had a friend who was a big proponent of TB's approach (which is not a wrong or bad approach, mind you) and he used to gripe that I dated 3 girls to his one.  

So in the end, just use the approach that you are most comfortable with.  It will pay off in the end, and whatever you want the "pay off" to be (platonic or something else) it will be worth it.


----------



## DaveMage (Jun 10, 2005)

What worked for me:

1. Having a sense of humor. 
2. Being able to give a good massage.
3. Making chocolate mousse cheesecake.
4. Knowing what I wanted from a woman and not wasting (much) time with those who didn't meet my few core requirements.

Edit - and as for what TB said, I'm not sure being mean and indifferent is the key (though I do believe that could work in many cases) so much as not being *dependent* on a woman for your happiness.  An "I can take it or leave it" attitude is the way to go.


----------



## FreeXenon (Jun 10, 2005)

DaveMage said:
			
		

> What worked for me:
> 
> 1. Having a sense of humor.
> 2. Being able to give a good massage.
> ...



Haven't tried the 'chocolate mousse cheesecake' thing but that sounds awesome.

I read the book 'Be your own Dating Service' and the one thing that I really took from it was what DaveMage just said in #4.

She specifically said make a list of those traits that you absolutely must have in your partner to be happy, and make a list of those traits that you absolutely cannot have in a partner. Find and filter your potentials based off this. This can be a good exercise in self exploration and realizing what you really want and/need. Give it a try.


----------



## Berandor (Jun 10, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> I know plenty of those types.  Back before my married days - there were plenty of young men at my church that had no reason to be there outside of scoring a hot innocent Christian girl... but - at the same time - there were plenty of young women there happy to play that game.
> 
> Church is a *really* interesting place.



 German churches are full of elderly people with nary an under-60-person in sight.

Then again, maybe these ladies *are* looking for a date...


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Frankly, you guys need to get your brains out of your Levi's and actually THINK for once!



Based on those comments, I don't think it's their brains that they're trying to get out of their Levi's...


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

Berandor said:
			
		

> German churches are full of elderly people with nary an under-60-person in sight.
> 
> Then again, maybe these ladies *are* looking for a date...





Just like some of the churches I've been to here in the US... There's a few younger folk but most are older people. When I'm off work, I attend church with my friend Bill but I don't use it as a way to get dates... or friends either... I save that for SF cons!   

That's where I met my friend at... I'd seen him briefly last year at a con but he was holding a conversation with Bill regarding artwork and I had no idea who he was at the time....


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Based on those comments, I don't think it's their brains that they're trying to get out of their Levi's...




 

They think more with that lower brain than the upper one, me thinks...   And "brains" is such a relative term for those kinds of guys who've posted on this thread....


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Just like some of the churches I've been to here in the US... There's a few younger folk but most are older people. When I'm off work, I attend church with my friend Bill but I don't use it as a way to get dates... or friends either... I save that for SF cons!



Where I grew up in Texas, most people seemed to go to church at least occasionally.  Folks were pretty religious in a laissez-faire kinda way.  But it seemed more like a social club than an actual religion for most of them, so I can totally see what you mean.  Lots of student congregations and whatnot at Texas A&M that were more about hookin' up than anything else.

But, I probably shouldn't say too much more about that here...  there was an interesting thread at nothingland a month or two ago about religious attitudes in America.  Suffice it to say that going to church to meet girls seems like it's not really all that uncommon, and you can expect some modicum of success.

After all, I met my wife at church -- although that's not why I was going.


----------



## reveal (Jun 10, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Based on those comments, I don't think it's their brains that they're trying to get out of their Levi's...




_I've got a lovely bunch of coconuts..._


----------



## Xath (Jun 10, 2005)

Also, if you have a local Ikea, that's a good place to meet single people.  Mostly because it's filled with divorcees trying to find inexpensive furnature.  It's crazy.  Some people go to Ikea like it's the local bar to try to meet people.


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

Xath said:
			
		

> Also, if you have a local Ikea, that's a good place to meet single people.  Mostly because it's filled with divorcees trying to find inexpensive furnature.  It's crazy.  Some people go to Ikea like it's the local bar to try to meet people.



Wow, that's weird.  We're getting an Ikea put in where I live, not 5 minutes from my house.  I'll have to look around; it amuses me to no end to think of it as a meat-market.  The one time I'd been in one previously I thought of it as a young yuppie parent hangout with their 1.5 kids in tow.


----------



## reveal (Jun 10, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> The one time I'd been in one previously I thought of it as a young yuppie parent hangout with their 1.5 kids in tow.




I always thought that niche was taken by Pier 1 Imports.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I always thought that niche was taken by Pier 1 Imports.




Not the locale for us lower-income female geeks... I end up usually at Walmart.


----------



## Torm (Jun 10, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Am I alone in thinking that going to church with the express purpose to get chicks is ... wrong?



They're only trying to obey the FIRST command given to life - "Be fruitful, and multiply."  

"Sister Christian, oh, the time has come....."


----------



## DaveMage (Jun 10, 2005)

FreeXenon said:
			
		

> Haven't tried the 'chocolate mousse cheesecake' thing but that sounds awesome.
> 
> I read the book 'Be your own Dating Service' and the one thing that I really took from it was what DaveMage just said in #4.
> 
> She specifically said make a list of those traits that you absolutely must have in your partner to be happy, and make a list of those traits that you absolutely cannot have in a partner. Find and filter your potentials based off this. This can be a good exercise in self exploration and realizing what you really want and/need. Give it a try.




Exactly.  

But you can't overdo it, either.  Unfortunately, I know some single people who *have* done something like this, and they have so many requirements that, frankly, no one is likely to fit their bill.


----------



## FreeXenon (Jun 10, 2005)

DaveMage said:
			
		

> Exactly.
> 
> But you can't overdo it, either.  Unfortunately, I know some single people who *have* done something like this, and they have so many requirements that, frankly, no one is likely to fit their bill.



Exactly, you need to be realistic and that will hopfully a result of the process and the self exploration.  This might possibly help you to realize the things that are really important (to you) in a relationship or the things that really matter....   

or not....   

Everything is great.... in moderation.


----------



## Storm Raven (Jun 10, 2005)

Queen_Dopplepopolis said:
			
		

> Am I alone in thinking that going to church with the express purpose to get chicks is ... wrong?




Probably not. But on the other hand, he's looking for companionship, and given his assertions about what he's looking for, he's looking for something more than a "quickie hookup". He's looking for a relationship, and church is a good place to start - women who go to church who are single are usually looking for a relationship type connection in their lives, and not a random hookup.

As to "there are only old people at church", it depends on the church you attend. In many urban/suburban areas there are community type churches that attract a much younger crowd, and have quite a few activities to participate in. Plus, it's a great place to meet _people_, and one of the most imprtant things in getting a relationship is to generate a social life, then your circle of friends expands, and then you meet more people, and the chances you will meet someone to become involved with increase.

Life is all about timing and luck. Make sure you increase your chances that good timing and luck will find you by placing yourself in the position that it might as much as possible.


----------



## Hijinks (Jun 10, 2005)

> I did not want to be a total ass because she told me in the past she was assulted a few times, so I had to be real careful.




Someone needs to explain to this girl that climbing into a male friend's bed in nothing but his t-shirt and panties, and NOT expecting to be assaulted, is naive. Not that many men would take advantage of such a situation, but that is rather forward for a platonic relationship. And since she was allowing you to put your hands on her AT ALL, it sounds like she was intentionally being a tease. No wonder she was assaulted!! 

Young women do sometimes lie and stretch the truth to get sympathy and attention. I know, I used to be one. Not that women who say they were sexually assaulted are ever liars, I would never say that, but I want to go back in time, show up in your bedroom, and thwap that woman on the forehead for ever saying "Oh I was assulated a few times," while she cuddles up to you in panties and a t-shirt. Puh-leeze! That's just .. just .. WRONG!


----------



## Kanegrundar (Jun 10, 2005)

Fruk, I was in your situation for several years after college.  Thanks to dating some surprisingly religious and misinformed girls I was really wary about dating anyone for fear that they would discover my hobbies and have a religious coniption fit followed by running for the door.  (One girl took one look at my books and left.  That did a lot for my self esteem...)  However, I am now engaged to a great gal that loves me for every bit of who I am (though she thinks I spend too much on gaming when I don't get to play hardly ever any more).  

Here's what worked for me.  Match.com.  Seriously, it may take a few tries, but the hits will come.  Just be honest without coming off as needy or weird in your profile.  Put up a good pic and then start winking at anyone that sounds interesting.  Before long you will get a bite.  From then on, just be yourself.  Listen, be honest, be open (but not too open since no one needs to know everyone's life story right out the gate), and be thoughtful.  Play to your strengths, brag up the things you're good at or proud of a little bit.  Simply be confident.  

I will tell you I dated two other people from Match and they were horrendous.  There are a lot of people lying about themselves there, but after a bit you'll be able to kinda sense the sincere people from the freaks.  My fiance was the thrid gal I met through Match and we've been together now for almost a year and a half.  It can happen, it just takes some time.  I know that sounds cheesy, but it's the truth.

Best of luck,
Kane


----------



## Desdichado (Jun 10, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> Young women do sometimes lie and stretch the truth to get sympathy and attention. I know, I used to be one. Not that women who say they were sexually assaulted are ever liars, I would never say that, but I want to go back in time, show up in your bedroom, and thwap that woman on the forehead for ever saying "Oh I was assulated a few times," while she cuddles up to you in panties and a t-shirt. Puh-leeze! That's just .. just .. WRONG!



Exactly.  I don't know if I'd do a Teflon Billy and call her a cab right then, but I wouldn't stay in bed with her then, and I wouldn't see her again, that's for sure.


----------



## Kanegrundar (Jun 10, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Exactly.  I don't know if I'd do a Teflon Billy and call her a cab right then, but I wouldn't stay in bed with her then, and I wouldn't see her again, that's for sure.



 Here here.  Alarm bells would be going off like wildfire in my head.  My next move would be to get her the heck out of my house quickly and forget it ever happened.

Kane


----------



## Torm (Jun 10, 2005)

Hijinks said:
			
		

> I want to go back in time, show up in your bedroom, and thwap that woman on the forehead for ever saying "Oh I was assulated a few times," while she cuddles up to you in panties and a t-shirt. Puh-leeze! That's just .. just .. WRONG!



Not to mention adding, "Please get out of my Van Halen T-Shirt before you jinx the band and they break up!"  

I had sort of the opposite problem when I was 15 - my cousin and his wife were staying with us while trying to get back on their financial feet. He worked nights, and his (very cute) wife kept coming into my room at night dressed in nothing but panties and a t-shirt to "talk", including a few times when I woke up with her sleeping in my bed next to me that way. The reason I say opposite is because it was more than obvious she WAS making herself available, but I fortunately had enough sense to take no part of that.


----------



## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 10, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Not to mention adding, "Please get out of my Van Halen T-Shirt before you jinx the band and they break up!"




*laughs*  My thoughts _exactly_, Torm.   You made my day!


----------



## Lady_Acoma (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I'd be more apt to sleep with a friend than a stranger. I'd like to KNOW the guy I'm gonna sleep with!
> 
> Frankly, you guys need to get your brains out of your Levi's and actually THINK for once!   We women would like to have more than just sex, ya know.





I'm with Darth K'Trava here, I only dated guys when I did that I already had as friends or knew I could be friends with.  That part was VERY important to me.  However I also made it clear to all of them that I didn't want sex, this was because of a promise (which I now know was so easy to keep because I just didn't want sex with guys  :\ ).  This did not mean that lust was not a big factor, and that fun was not had by all.  But I know I don't really lust for someone till I know them a bit.  That makes them more attractive, sexy, and just plan turns me on.  It has been the same with women now, I am friends first.  I would assume that this sort of avenue with his own twists would be more what Fru wants because he is not in it for the sex, he is looking for more.  More comes with friendship I believe.  How can one marry someone they are not friends with truly?


----------



## reveal (Jun 10, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> How can one marry someone they are not friends with truly?




Because you're a stupid 21 year old about to leave the state and you and your stupid 19 year old girlfriend can't bear to be apart? Getting married simply because of that reason is stupid, as I have already mentioned. 

That's what happened to me. But we got lucky and have become great, great friends and are still madly in love after 9 years of marriage.


----------



## Kastil (Jun 10, 2005)

Finding someone does not guarantee you'll never be lonely again.  It sometimes happens that you become too comfortable in a relationship that you forget to lavish the one you love with attention.  Of course, love must work both ways and a mutual respect must be there.  I know what it feels like to be alone and lost even when you are surrounded by people who love you dearly.  Its what happens when life doesn't exactly work out like to dreamed.  Reality is cold and cruel but I keep to the path I have chosen in life.  No one can bring you down but yourself.

Besides, IMO, love just happens.  My husband and I used to tell each other ((before we even dated)) how much we hated each other.  Two stubborn people who wouldn't know love if it bit them in the backside.  14 years later and enough turbulence to bring down a sizeable jet liner, we're still together.  He is been my only love in this world and always will be.  Love hurts sometimes but I think that's when you know it's real.

Always be true to who you are and don't change or compromise for anyone.  Faults make us human.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg (Jun 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> Terrible advice. Truly terrible.
> 
> You will be placed on her "Good Friends" list in no time flat.
> 
> ...




I understand what you are getting at, and there are definitely some women that applies to perfectly, but I think in most cases you are just slightly off the mark.  

I think most women want a guy who is nice, but not _ too _ nice (this from first hand experience - tons of female friends in college - literally not one date, just "too nice" to date).  Don't be mean, but have a spine.  Feel free to disagree with her (but don't be an a-hat about it).  Don't just do what _ she _ wants.  Don't let her take complete advantage of you.  

When I finally figured that out, I had a lot more success in dating and I would never have managed to snare my wife had I continued being the "nice guy" that I was in college.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> She was in on of my tshirts and panties, not just panties. I did try and go for it, but she kept moving my hands to "safe" places. I did not want to be a total ass because she told me in the past she was assulted a few times, so I had to be real careful. I did not want her to think i was doing the same thing and then get in legal trouble, ect.. Maybe I was too much of a nice guy in that way.




No, it sounds like you handled it perfectly. 

The message was there (to your eyes), You made your play, she rebuffed you, and you let it go.

Seriously man; _perfectly_.

I would call her on it if she crawled into my bed again mind you. Something along the lines of "look, what are you doing? You know I'm into you, I don't _think_ you are into me...and this is not the way "friends" act. Ask (insert male friend) he'll confirm for you"


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's better than the "enemies" list...




Not to me. If I am looking for a girlfriend, being dowgraded (and it _is_ a downgrade) to "friend" is not something I would be interested in.



			
				Darth said:
			
		

> And being friends is not bad... that way if a relationship doesn't work out, then hopefully, you two can remain friends afterwards.




A "freindship" where one friend has romantic designs on the other (who doesn't) is not a friendship it is a recipe for disaster.



			
				Darth said:
			
		

> But I feel that it should be friends first, lovers second. Only because it'd be nice to have them still be friends no matter how the relationship turns out.




It's not going to work that way. Friends first/then lovers is ideal...downgrade back to "friends" (in quotes, which it will be from that point on) is soul-destroying for the "freind" who still has romantic feelings.



			
				Darth said:
			
		

> If it gets serious, then COOL, but if it doesn't, then there's being friends. Which is alot better than hating one another. Life's too short to hate people.




I don't need hate. I'll take indifference over that much of a power imbalance in the relationship though.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> I agree this works in a great many instances, but not all.




Well, _nothing_ works 100% of the time man but as you say yourself above, this is the way to play it for greatest success.



			
				DMC said:
			
		

> In my single days, I played the nice guy card, and consequently dated a LOT.  The relationships started out as "he's such a nice guy to be friends with" and the majority of those ended up being "friends with benefits".  I had a friend who was a big proponent of TB's approach (which is not a wrong or bad approach, mind you) and he used to gripe that I dated 3 girls to his one.




Nice! Sounds like you had your game working 

However, your way is not what is going o work the majority of the time. You are an anomaly you lucky dog  



			
				DMC said:
			
		

> So in the end, just use the approach that you are most comfortable with.  It will pay off in the end, and whatever you want the "pay off" to be (platonic or something else) it will be worth it.




The apporach he is most comfortable with (leaving it in God's hands) is getting him nothing. Rethink that advice.


----------



## Teflon Billy (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Frankly, you guys need to get your brains out of your Levi's and actually THINK for once!   We women would like to have more than just sex, ya know.




I've thought about it plenty, and put my theories to the test. Your example only works for one isntance (you).


----------



## Tewligan (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Who was it that said, "go bi, because you immediately double your chances for getting a date on Friday night."



I do believe that was Woody Allen.

Oh, and just so I'm contributing more than an answer to an incidental question asked a couple of days ago, I'm going to say that I've had some luck in the Personals section at theonion.com. I've met some smart, funny people there, and had some very good dates through them. The clientele seems less, well, dumb than at match.com and other services. I giv 'em a thumbs up! Of course, the first woman I went out with through them apparently hated me within, oh, 5 minutes of meeting me, so results will vary...


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> You are an anomaly you lucky dog




That made my day.  Thanks, TB!


----------



## CGoat (Jun 10, 2005)

two words...

Harley Davidson

Of course you'll attract leather clad females...  but since when is that a bad thing.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> I'm with Darth K'Trava here, I only dated guys when I did that I already had as friends or knew I could be friends with.  That part was VERY important to me.  However I also made it clear to all of them that I didn't want sex, this was because of a promise (which I now know was so easy to keep because I just didn't want sex with guys  :\ ).  This did not mean that lust was not a big factor, and that fun was not had by all.  But I know I don't really lust for someone till I know them a bit.  That makes them more attractive, sexy, and just plan turns me on.  It has been the same with women now, I am friends first.  I would assume that this sort of avenue with his own twists would be more what Fru wants because he is not in it for the sex, he is looking for more.  More comes with friendship I believe.  How can one marry someone they are not friends with truly?




It's too bad we can't make guys like TB see things from OUR perspective. That not all women are whores like he'd like.... That's just wrong. Those kinds of guys should just pay for sex and get it over with as that's all they want out of a "relationship". If I can't be friends with ya, then what good are you? I don't do one night stands.


----------



## DungeonmasterCal (Jun 10, 2005)

CGoat said:
			
		

> two words...
> 
> Harley Davidson
> 
> Of course you'll attract leather clad females...  but since when is that a bad thing.




I have an ex g/f from many years ago who just goes insane for Harleys.  Of course, the reason she's an ex is because she WAS insane, but that's neither here nor there.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

CGoat said:
			
		

> two words...
> 
> Harley Davidson





Only if your nickname is "The Terminator"!


----------



## DaveMage (Jun 10, 2005)

Teflon Billy said:
			
		

> A "freindship" where one friend has romantic designs on the other (who doesn't) is not a friendship it is a recipe for disaster.




Very, VERY true...


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> They're only trying to obey the FIRST command given to life - "Be fruitful, and multiply."
> 
> "Sister Christian, oh, the time has come....."




   

And ya wonder just why Torm lost his paladinhood.....


----------



## der_kluge (Jun 10, 2005)

Tewligan said:
			
		

> I do believe that was Woody Allen.
> 
> Oh, and just so I'm contributing more than an answer to an incidental question asked a couple of days ago, I'm going to say that I've had some luck in the Personals section at theonion.com. I've met some smart, funny people there, and had some very good dates through them. The clientele seems less, well, dumb than at match.com and other services. I giv 'em a thumbs up! Of course, the first woman I went out with through them apparently hated me within, oh, 5 minutes of meeting me, so results will vary...




Once upon a time I had an account at one of those online sites. I honestly can't remember which one. This was probably 7 years ago now. Maybe friendfinder?  Which isn't a bad thing, since you're coming into that site with no preconceived expectation. If someone wants to just be "friends", then you're golden, since that is what the site is about.

Anyway, all that ever materialized from it was some girl emailing me and she mentioned something about driving a truck, and having a "CB handle". Needless to say, I didn't email her back. Scary.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Jun 10, 2005)

der_kluge said:
			
		

> Once upon a time I had an account at one of those online sites. I honestly can't Anyway, all that ever materialized from it was some girl emailing me and she mentioned something about driving a truck, and having a "CB handle". Needless to say, I didn't email her back. Scary.




My aunt used to have a CB handle... she never drove trucks but she had one back in the "CB radio craze" of the late 70s.


----------



## Xath (Jun 10, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> Wow, that's weird.  We're getting an Ikea put in where I live, not 5 minutes from my house.  I'll have to look around; it amuses me to no end to think of it as a meat-market.  The one time I'd been in one previously I thought of it as a young yuppie parent hangout with their 1.5 kids in tow.




Sometimes, and I think it varies depending on the location.  But don't forget, people with kids can be single too.  I've found that the vast majority of people in my local Ikea are college students or divorcees.


----------



## Lady_Acoma (Jun 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's too bad we can't make guys like TB see things from OUR perspective. That not all women are whores like he'd like.... That's just wrong. Those kinds of guys should just pay for sex and get it over with as that's all they want out of a "relationship". If I can't be friends with ya, then what good are you? I don't do one night stands.




See now I don't have to deal with guys like that anymore, course there are some girls like that, but I don't tend to go to the places they congregate at to often so I have a shield sorta.  However I have a great many guy friends, and those that are like that in general I don't stay friends with for long, or am never really close to at all, just associates mostly. *shrugs*  But if that's what he wants and he seems to be getting it I'm not going to try and say he is horribly wrong, and I think it's clear that is not at all my approach and I don't really care for it, so I think that is enough said.


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's too bad we can't make guys like TB see things from OUR perspective. That not all women are whores like he'd like.... That's just wrong. Those kinds of guys should just pay for sex and get it over with as that's all they want out of a "relationship". If I can't be friends with ya, then what good are you? I don't do one night stands.




my wife is my best friend.  largely because the rest of my friends don't bother calling or coming over though, but i digress.    i actually enjoy talking to her and spending time with her, most of the time.  when you live with someone (anyone), it's impossible to enjoy 100% of the time you spend with them.


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## Desdichado (Jun 11, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's too bad we can't make guys like TB see things from OUR perspective. That not all women are whores like he'd like.... That's just wrong. Those kinds of guys should just pay for sex and get it over with as that's all they want out of a "relationship". If I can't be friends with ya, then what good are you? I don't do one night stands.



I don't TB says he's looking for whores -- he's talking about getting dates, though, not getting friends.  If your design is to get friends, then yeah, Mr. Uber Nice Guy is the way to go.  If your intent is to find someone to ask out on a date, then there's a slightly different angle of your personality you want to emphasize.  I think you're not so much disagreeing as you are not even talking about the same circumstances at all.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 11, 2005)

Lady_Acoma said:
			
		

> See now I don't have to deal with guys like that anymore, course there are some girls like that, but I don't tend to go to the places they congregate at to often so I have a shield sorta.  However I have a great many guy friends, and those that are like that in general I don't stay friends with for long, or am never really close to at all, just associates mostly. *shrugs*  But if that's what he wants and he seems to be getting it I'm not going to try and say he is horribly wrong, and I think it's clear that is not at all my approach and I don't really care for it, so I think that is enough said.




And it's not my approach either. I prefer the "nice guy" who cares more for my feelings than whether or not we get horizontal. That's just my opinion on things and I don't plan to change that.   

I didn't know I was really *that* popular with the guys.... I had Torm "hit" on me awhile back but I wasn't comfortable with his lifestyle. So I decided to be friends with him instead. Which is cool, IMO. That was the first time I'd really encountered someone who had a different lifestyle than the "norm" which is what I'm used to/most comfortable with. 

I told my friend that I like being around him because "he's nice, caring and fun to be around" and that if he wasn't scared of a relationship right now, I think we might start one...   But he's still scared of getting hurt again. And I can certainly understand that... having been hurt too by a once best friend of mine.The only prob with that I'd see, besides the scared bit, is the fact we're 2 hours apart...   But a person like that would be more up my alley than some of the other types of guys. Although it may still be "too fast" as I've only known him for just under 3 months...   And frankly, I respect him for the fact that he's a gentleman, not pressing things like some might do. Not trying to take advantage of me and I'm not going to take advantage of him either.


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## Darth K'Trava (Jun 11, 2005)

Joshua Dyal said:
			
		

> I don't TB says he's looking for whores -- he's talking about getting dates, though, not getting friends.  If your design is to get friends, then yeah, Mr. Uber Nice Guy is the way to go.  If your intent is to find someone to ask out on a date, then there's a slightly different angle of your personality you want to emphasize.  I think you're not so much disagreeing as you are not even talking about the same circumstances at all.




I wouldn't mind finding a date, m'self...   I just have my own way of going about it, it seems... I'd like to know the person before I'd be willing to go somewhere ALONE with them... I guess part of the "different circumstances" may be revolving around our differences in gender...


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## Queen_Dopplepopolis (Jun 11, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> I wouldn't mind finding a date, m'self...   I just have my own way of going about it, it seems...




Not your own way.  I think it's the difference between men and women, in general.  I agree with everything you've said.  Women - at least all the women I know - want to be friends first, lovers second.

As they say - men are from Mars, women are from Venus.  Doubt that men will ever understand the woman's perspective... nor will women ever understand man's.


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## Aeson (Jun 11, 2005)

maybe enworld should start a dating service. with all these lonely hearts it shouldn't be too hard. I'd sign up. A new version of "gamer seeking gamer"


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## drothgery (Jun 11, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> maybe enworld should start a dating service. with all these lonely hearts it shouldn't be too hard.




There's a small problem with the idea. There are plenty of single men around here. Single women, not so much.


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## Aeson (Jun 11, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> There's a small problem with the idea. There are plenty of single men around here. Single women, not so much.





I know good, honest, nice, funny and romantic women are so hard to find. I am so tired of these women that treat me like a piece of meat on a Harley. Jeez I'd like a woman that wants me for my mind and not my money, body oh did I metion the Harley.


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## Aeson (Jun 11, 2005)

I might get fraked for that.


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2005)

i'd frake you, but i don't know how much it costs.


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## Teflon Billy (Jun 11, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's too bad we can't make guys like TB see things from OUR perspective.




I understand your perspective perfectly well: You dislike any level of uncertainty in your relationships. Start off slow and safe with no expectations from him, and build to a point where you feel comfortable moving to the "next level"

Am I close?

What I'm saying is that that plan doesn't meet the _guy's needs_ (Not most guy's I've met anyways) You keep mentioning what women want. It's valid commentary. But it's not the whole package..

I'm saying a man's needs are* just* as valid a compass point by which to steer the ship.  That's something you seem to be missing.

Nothing wrong with looking out for your own needs (which is all you are describing), but don't go pretending it's different from what the guys are doing in any way but the details.

"Lust, then friendship" someone said earlier, and I have to agree. 

If that "Spark" isn't there at the beginning, then I am not likley to be romantically interested afterward.

If it _is_ there, I'm categorically not interested in pretendingthat it's not so that the girl can live her life in a "comfy zone".



> That not all women are whores like he'd like.... That's just wrong.




What. The. . is that supposed to mean :\ 

I want all women to be whores? That was totally uncalled for and I would like to see an apology for that comment the _very _next time you post.

I have a wife and two daughters. I have no idea what little whirlwind of  is going on in your mind, but let me assure you that the last thing I want (or need) is for all women in the world to be whores.

What I would like to see is a little understanding coming _this_ way, understanding of the idea that maybe being "good pals" is not the best way to start something romantic. 

I know you claim it is in your case, but take a look at the norms of our larger North American culture and tell me if you think that your views represent the standard.

In my experience, they don't.

They are, however, a fairly common wish-fulfillment fantasy for early 20's girls who haven't quite figured out how to live in an adult world yet.



			
				Darth said:
			
		

> Those kinds of guys should just pay for sex and get it over with as that's all they want out of a "relationship".




 you. 

I was hot for my wife from the first moment I laid eyes on her. We have a fantastic relationship, and she is--without a close second in sight--my best friend. That came from the intimacy we shared as much as the stuff we have in common.

Relationships grow. It's not up to you to decide which way the growth takes place any more than it's mine. 

It's the responsibility of the people invovled to see that their needs are being met. If it works for both of them, then bravo.

But slotting in an offer of "Friendship" when you know that a guy has romance on the mind is just insulting.



			
				Darth said:
			
		

> If I can't be friends with ya, then what good are you? I don't do one night stands.




If you won't have sex with me, why would I bother pursuing you for a romantic relationship?

I've got enough "Pals".

Grow the  up.


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## Aeson (Jun 11, 2005)

Sorry my boy but if you have to ask you can't afford it.

I think there was some bad timing with this post. But some how I'm not so worried about my previous one.


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## BOZ (Jun 11, 2005)

*backs, very slowly, out of this thread*


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## Aeson (Jun 11, 2005)

*sits quitely in the corner arms around knees rocking back and forth* Then follows BOZ out.


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## reveal (Jun 11, 2005)




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## Hypersmurf (Jun 11, 2005)

Let's be very careful with personal comments about other posters, people.

Especially if they contain assumptions or aspersions.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)


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## Obryn (Jun 11, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> It's too bad we can't make guys like TB see things from OUR perspective. That not all women are whores like he'd like.... That's just wrong. Those kinds of guys should just pay for sex and get it over with as that's all they want out of a "relationship". If I can't be friends with ya, then what good are you? I don't do one night stands.



Wow.  Talk about being off-base.

After reading this thread, I don't see a single time when TB says he wants whores or all he wants is sex.

You, on the other hand, seem to think that any woman who treats sex as a major motivation in finding a guy has something intrinsically wrong with her.  Check out your post above, and your responses to alsih2o on the first few pages.

I'm also kind of disturbed that you have no problems being ...


			
				darth said:
			
		

> Sounds like me.... venting outlet for several of my male friends probs.. Which I don't mind unless it becomes the only topic of conversation. Then it gets old, REAL QUICK.



That screams out Queen Bee to me.  But hey, I could be wrong.  Still, that's my impression - that what _you_ want are a lot of potential suitors, hanging around, paying attention to you, but never being demanding or forward at all.  Or even mentioning sex.

It's a game, it's a trap, and it's bullcrap.  TB is telling it straight - namely how _not_ to fall into the hive.

-O


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## Eolin (Jun 11, 2005)

this thread has gone on for 6 pages?

WOW!


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## Jdvn1 (Jun 11, 2005)

Eolin said:
			
		

> this thread has gone on for 6 pages?
> 
> WOW!



 It invovles an age-old question to which an answer is not only difficult but unsatisfactory.

If it went on for 100 pages, most guys would still be confused.


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## jdavis (Jun 11, 2005)

Getting shot down but still being friends will most likely lead to one of two places for a Man.
1. He looses all interest in any type of relationship beyond being a friend.
2. He becomes obsessed and troubled by the friendship.

From experience I know how hard it is to just be friends with somebody you are physically interested in, and friends with benefits normally ends up as torture for one of the people involved. It's not about sex it's about relationships, surprise surprise Men actually want to be in deep relationships too (the whores remark was way off base and pretty shallow), if a man likes a woman and wants to be in a relationship with them then he will try to play the friend card hoping things may change later but rest assured he's not a friend he's a guy waiting for more to happen. Only when a guy gives up on there ever being in a relationship with the girl will he be an actual friend and then he won't want the relationship to grow as he's given up and gone on with his life. So you've either got a puppydog guy waiting for things to change or you got a guy who has moved on and isn't interested any more. I'm not saying that guys and girls can't be friends (I've got lots of female friends), nor am I saying that friends can't grow into more (I worked with my wife for years before we ever went out) but once that offer of a relationship pops up and is turned down it's a whole different game from then on out. Getting the old "lets just be friends" line is the equivalent of being kicked in the nuts for a guy and it does change everything. 

That's one reason the ask as many girls out as you can thing works so well, if you ask the girl out and get shot down before you actually get to know them real well then it's not a problem, if you wait until you know them better and decide you like them the rejection is much harder to handle. Don't get hung up on a girl and don't try to be "just friends" unless you actually just want to be friends. If you might want to go out with somebody then ask early and get that out of the way, you can get to know them on the first date, if they immediately say no then chances are they are going to say no later on too. If a guy is looking for sex and finds a girl that just wants to be friends then he might not have a problem with just being friends, if a guy is looking for a serious relationship and the girl just wants to be friends you can rest assured that guy isn't ok with just being friends, he might say he is but he isn't.

As far as nice guys finishing last I got to agree with TB there, nice guys just get walked on and taken advantage of; stand up guys with spines get respect. I don't get it at all but the whole "good girls like bad boys" saying seems to be rooted in the truth. I've known a lot of guys that were real jerks to women and they never had to worry about getting dates, us nice guys always ended up "just friends". I'm not saying that people should go out and be jerks to women (inexcusable for any reason) but trust me having a spine around them will do wonders. Ditching the puppy dog crap and saying what's on your mind will get you farther than being a simpering fool ever will. For some reason women see what I'd call mild rudeness as flirting, (the first date I ever got was because I was throwing M&Ms at a girl and instead of getting mad at me she asked me out). I don't get it but that's just how things work, I was lonely for the first 19 years of my life until I figured that out (and I still don't understand why).


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## Hypersmurf (Jun 11, 2005)

Thread closed at originator's request.

-Hyp.
(Moderator)


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