# GAME OF THRONES SEASON 8--Final Run-- Part 3



## Truth Seeker (Apr 29, 2019)

*'The Long Night'

**Brienne and Jaime prepare the armies for battle; Arya is desperate to preove her worth as a fighter as the dead draw near.
*


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## Zardnaar (Apr 29, 2019)

Not bad not bad. Go Arya.


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## Aeson (Apr 29, 2019)

Don't  F with Arya Stark.
Lyanna Mormont was a BOSS.
Theon redeemed himself. 

Not a lot of talking in this one. I think The Hound had the most lines.


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## reelo (Apr 29, 2019)

Failed her stealth roll, but not her feint roll. Suprise, motherf***er!


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## jonesy (Apr 29, 2019)

It was a massacre, but a surprisingly mild massacre for the main cast. I expected way more characters lost.

I'd say that Melisandre, Arya and Theon were the MVP trio of the episode.

Only three episodes left. Me sad.


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## Remus Lupin (Apr 29, 2019)

A good episode, but hard to track at times. I've heard mixed reports, but can someone confirm whether or not Rhaegal survived?


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## Zardnaar (Apr 29, 2019)

Remus Lupin said:


> A good episode, but hard to track at times. I've heard mixed reports, but can someone confirm whether or not Rhaegal survived?




 Not 100% clear, its not looking good but he didn't die on camera or at least it wasn't clear he is dead. Unless its Dany's main Dragon (I forget their names), as her one survived.
 Good episode a bit anti climatic perhaps but we're in the end game now.


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## cmad1977 (Apr 29, 2019)

Well... I got 6-7 of my game of thrones Death Bingo squares filled so... good episode! 

Go to

Isgameofthronesback.com to get your bingo squares before it’s too late! 

Lyanna Mormont being the first to go was a surprise.


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## cmad1977 (Apr 29, 2019)

Remus Lupin said:


> A good episode, but hard to track at times. I've heard mixed reports, but can someone confirm whether or not Rhaegal survived?




I think he did... but only because I think the ‘next week on GoT segment showed 2 dragons in the sky.


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## Tonguez (Apr 29, 2019)

the tactics in the battle seemed suprisingly stupid - why would you wait till the enemy is literally at your gate before you light the fire barrier? wouldnt you have wanted bigger bonfires and a lot more burning trenches and flaming barriers far away from the walls both to slow the dead down and provide better visibility in the dark?  not to mention oil down the walls and more fire inside the keep too.
and why wait until your front line is overrun before you start strafing the enemy with dragonfire rather than following the first charge? 

nonetheless Go Lyanna, Go Theon, Go Arya!!!!


(oh and Rhaegal landed without crashing, he's injured but not dead yet)


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## Zardnaar (Apr 29, 2019)

Tonguez said:


> the tactics in the battle seemed suprisingly stupid - why would you wait till the enemy is literally at your gate before you light the fire barrier? wouldnt you have wanted bigger bonfires and a lot more burning trenches and flaming barriers far away from the walls both to slow the dead down and provide better visibility in the dark?  not to mention oil down the walls and more fire inside the keep too.
> and why wait until your front line is overrun before you start strafing the enemy with dragonfire rather than following the first charge?
> 
> nonetheless Go Lyanna, Go Theon, Go Arya!!!!
> ...




 That is what I was saying to my wife lol, the tactics were stupid. They threw away the Dothraki and they could have held them back and launched more than one volley from the trebuchets (which are siege weapons not field artillery). The Night King didn't have to throw himself away either, They could have also unleashed the Dothraki once they were assaulting the walls as well.


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## Ralif Redhammer (Apr 29, 2019)

Lyanna went out like a boss. Theon's suicide charge at the end was a great moment. And of course, Arya, dang! Love that they foreshadowed that move back in the sparring match between her and Brienne.

I wasn't sure how Jorah got to Daenerys at the end, but considering how high the piles of corpses of the dead were, he probably could've just jumped from the top of the walls. It was a noble end, but one I certainly expected.

Here's hoping Tyrion has some brainpower left, because I've no idea how they're going to deal with Cersei's forces. Sure, they have two dragons, but both are pretty banged up.


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## jonesy (Apr 29, 2019)

They were already stretched thin on everything, including time. I don't think there was more they could have done. And the dothraki were supposed to be invincible on an open field. That's what everyone said, and I think they really would believe that.


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## Kaodi (Apr 29, 2019)

I enjoyed watching it for the most part but in many ways it was intensely dissatisfying. The show where all of those people managed to survive despite being surrounded by literally enough undead to swamp them is a show where Ned Stark never would have been beheaded the way he was. I am back to hoping for The Winds of Winter again so we can see how this is really supposed to go. I wanted people who have been around since the beginning to die because that is how you know the stakes were real in the story.


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## Mallus (Apr 29, 2019)

For those of you disappointed by the number of named character survivors, remember the gang may have defeated the icy, bite-y personifications of death itself but up next are the forces of human ambition and cruelty. Out of the frying pan, into the fire...

This episode just worked for me. Began tense, only got worse. I wonder if a lot of its power came from the previous episode and its slow and careful underlining of the all the characters relationships and the personal journeys they've been on over the course of the series. 

I also wonder how much of my reaction is due favoring shadow detail and a slightly higher gamma in my TVs settings .


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## Morrus (Apr 29, 2019)

Finally saw it!

Is it just me or does the Night King look like Darth Maul on a cold day?

Knew they'd Phantom Menace* it. Take out all the battledroids by chopping off the head.

Good episode. I too expected more deaths, but I wasn't hoping for them. Felt bad for the ones who did die.

So that's the culmination of the 7-year Winter is Coming plot? Now three episodes vs the Lannisters?





*I think Independence Day did it first, though.


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## RangerWickett (Apr 29, 2019)

They got this episode completely wrong, in my opinion. 

No one in the whole episode made a decision. There was no character growth or emotional fall-out, except maybe for Jorah's death. The tactics of the heroes were moronic. The staging of the action was inconsistent, with undead appearing at one moment unlimited and insurmountable, and then shortly thereafter sparse and under control. The 'quiet and tense' scene inside Winterfell was illogical since there was still a lot of fighting going on outside which should have been audible. The dragon battle was impossible to follow and made me constantly wonder why the good dragons weren't breathing fire. The undead in the crypts did literally nothing on screen, and no one ever fought back against them. I'm not sure whether surviving off-screen to things that ought to kill you is worse than dying off-screen.

There were no big hero moments. There were no betrayals or twists. And the White Walkers -- the danger that was present from the first scene of the show -- is now dealt with, leaving behind the Mountain and ing Euron Greyjoy as the only real threats of note.

Meh. Strongly meh. Sound and fury signifying nothing.


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## Morrus (Apr 29, 2019)

Yeah. Euron Greyjoy as the main villain isn’t appealing. 

Then again, I was never that interested in the Night King. I’ve seen The Walking Dead. Cersei is much more interesting.


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## RangerWickett (Apr 29, 2019)

The Night King had this mystery behind him: "What's his deal? What motivates him? What will he do if he wins?"

I assumed they'd reveal something that would surprise us.

But apparently he was just an evil ice robot, with no depth and no point.


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## Aeson (Apr 29, 2019)

What happened to Podrick? I don't think I saw him once in this episode.


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## Istbor (Apr 29, 2019)

I do wonder how basically skeletons were able to punch their way through stone tombs. I think the whole crypt thing was unnecessary. I didn't see anyone of note die to them. Much better if they started pounding and howling/snarling, which scared the people down there into making a foolish decision to run out into the keep's yard or unbar the door. Maybe then there would have been some tension and drama as some survivors had to kill others hiding to protect the many. 

I dunno.


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## MarkB (Apr 30, 2019)

I didn't find their tactics partricularly stupid. It was a basic castle-defence plan of falling back by stages, and taking as many of the opposition out at each stage as possible.

The Dothraki were a mobile force, and temporarily powered-up with flame weapons. Having them make a lightning strike against the enemy frontline wasn't a terrible choice - the only other thing they'd have been good for was harrying the flanks once the armies were engaged, and there was simply no way to coordinate that in pitch darkness.

Lighting the trenches any earlier would've been counterproductive - they would have cut off the retreat of their main forces, and would've burned out half their fuel by the time the horde finished cutting through the Unsullied.

The pacing does get weird after the army breaches the walls, though. It goes from pitched battle in one scene, then when we next cut back it's all sneaking around in corridors. It feels like there was supposed to be something in between that would have slowed or diverted the horde's incursion, which we didn't get to see.

The really big thing which it felt like the battle was lacking, on the defending side, was a leader. With Jon and Danaerys off on dragonback, barely five words of dialogue between them, the rest of the forces were just these scattered little groups all fighting their own battles, mostly in quiet desperation.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

The visuals were absolutely phenomenal. Especially some of the dragon shots above the clouds, the dragon fight, the dragonfire. I heard some had trouble seeing what was going on because it was too dark, but I didn’t have any trouble.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Apr 30, 2019)

Morrus said:


> The visuals were absolutely phenomenal. Especially some of the dragon shots above the clouds, the dragon fight, the dragonfire. I heard some had trouble seeing what was going on because it was too dark, but I didn’t have any trouble.




Well, my darkvision failed, so I had a hard time following what was going on even with all the lights turned off.  My wife kept asking me "Who is that?" as scenes would shift.

I really could not follow the dragon fights. Take a lesson from D&D please and color-code them.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 30, 2019)

MarkB said:


> I didn't find their tactics partricularly stupid. It was a basic castle-defence plan of falling back by stages, and taking as many of the opposition out at each stage as possible.
> 
> The Dothraki were a mobile force, and temporarily powered-up with flame weapons. Having them make a lightning strike against the enemy frontline wasn't a terrible choice - the only other thing they'd have been good for was harrying the flanks once the armies were engaged, and there was simply no way to coordinate that in pitch darkness.
> 
> ...




It's like the dumbest thing you do with light cavalry you use them on the flanks. Use missile weapons to soften them up.


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## Mercurius (Apr 30, 2019)

I just watched it and I'm left with two simultaneous but conflicting feelings:

1) Extremely entertaining, dramatic and visually impressive. So many beautiful scenes (the dragons above the clouds! Drogon protecting the grieving Dany, etc).

But...

2) Highly disappointing, anti-climactic, and when examined beyond the surface level of 1, it had so many problems and was rather poorly put together, especially as a "penultimate climax" to an eight seasons series. 

I'm left feeling that there was this 8 year build up that led to very little pay-off, except for sheer spectacle and drama. It was like getting to know someone who you realized that, in the end, wasn't nearly as deep or complex as you originally thought. I'm particularly disappointed to the degree that there was no real exposition or revelation about the Night King and White Walkers, or Bran for that matter. 

On the other hand, I guess it is the process that counts. The series was a great ride, and perhaps that was the problem: it would be difficult to create a climax that could do it justice, and at least so far (still only halfway through the last season), it didn't come close.


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## Mercurius (Apr 30, 2019)

One thing that surprised me is how much of a role Melisandre had - not just the fire, but giving Arya that extra little inspiration. I kind of like how this rather monstrous person ended up being someone who was monstrous because it served a greater purpose: sort of a dark twist on the end justifying the means.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 30, 2019)

How is this for a thought. We have been watching a prequel and the events depicted are told by old Sam or Bran to the Prince That Was Promised. 

 They might also abolish the throne.

 Anti climatic a little, decent CGI porn though. Hardhome and the Battle of the Bastards were better IMHO.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

One thing I didn’t get — what did the brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes thing mean?


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## pukunui (Apr 30, 2019)

Mixed feelings for me, too. I enjoyed the spectacle overall but am also feeling let down. The White Walkers and their existential threat was my favourite part of the show. This was not the ending I was expecting. All I can hope for is that the supposed prequel series will flesh out their (back)story more.

Random thoughts:

Sam, Brienne, Pod, Jaime, and probably also Grey Worm and Tormund ought to be dead.
Aside from being Westeros’ living memory, what is the point of Bran having magic powers? He doesn’t ever seem to do anything useful with them any more. Was his “creation” of Hodor the only pay-off we’ll get for his apparent ability to affect the past, or will there be more? Why didn’t he warg into Ghost or something to help with the fight?
The dead Starks in the crypt *did* rise but no one of any consequence even had to fight one, let alone get hurt or killed by one. Also, despite this theory being correct, Dany’s reference to the dead already being there *was* just her stating the obvious. What a waste of a line.
Theon did a great job defending Bran. Why did he stupidly charge the Night King? Why didn’t he stay where he was? I think it would’ve been better if he’d been able to spar with the Night King long enough for Arya to sneak up on him (instead of having her literally get the drop on him out of nowhere — was she hiding in a tree or had she magically turned into wind to get past the white walkers?)
The walkers used smart tactics and let their grunts do the dirty work while they stayed safely in the rear but ultimately lost. The living used idiotic tactics, and led from the front, and somehow still managed to win.
Would I be correct in thinking that the main / named characters are among the only ones who survived? Most, if not all, of the Wildlings, Unsullied, Dothraki, Ironborn, Knights of the Vale, and Northern bannermen (and civilians) are dead, right? Cersei’s choice to stay behind and fight whoever emerges victorious in the North seems like it was the smart choice after all, which doesn’t seem right.



Morrus said:


> One thing I didn’t get — what did the brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes thing mean?



That dates back to season 3, when Melisandre came to take Gendry away from the Brotherhood. She looked into Arya’s eyes and said she could see brown eyes, blue eyes, and green eyes, all closed forever.


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## Mercurius (Apr 30, 2019)

Morrus said:


> One thing I didn’t get — what did the brown eyes, green eyes, blue eyes thing mean?




I think she was emphasizing blue eyes, that Arya had already killed people with brown and green eyes, but blue was still to come - meaning, wights, White Walkers, and the Night King. It was foreshadowing that Arya would kill the Night King.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

Huh. Lots of people have brown, green, or blue eyes. My eyes are blue. Maybe she meant me?


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## pukunui (Apr 30, 2019)

What color eyes does Cersei have? I hope that Arya is the one to kill her and that she gets to use her Faceless powers to do it, like she did with Walder Frey. (Surely that bit of revenge was not the whole pay-off for her side quest to gain that ability.)

Also, who thinks Bronn will actually try to kill Jaime and/or Tyrion? I know he’s a mercenary but he’s seems to genuinely like both of them. Will he go through with it, or will he side with them against Cersei?


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

pukunui said:


> What color eyes does Cersei have? I hope that Arya is the one to kill her and that she gets to use her Faceless powers to do it, like she did with Walder Frey. (Surely that bit of revenge was not the whole pay-off for her side quest to gain that ability.)
> 
> Also, who thinks Bronn will actually try to kill Jaime and/or Tyrion? I know he’s a mercenary but he’s seems to genuinely like both of them. Will he go through with it, or will he side with them against Cersei?




I kind of feel like Jaime, Tyrion, and Cersei need their own showdown. That family dynamic needs a payoff.

Heh. Maybe Arya will change her face, come Cersei, and rule Westeros!


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## Imaculata (Apr 30, 2019)

I enjoyed the episode, but the battle tactics were very poor. You'd think given how much they already knew about the Whitewalkers, that they'd focus on taking them out. But apart from having Bran in the godswood, there seemed to be very little strategy to taking them out. The Nightking being downed from his dragon seemed more of a convient outcome rather than a deliberate tactic.

Also, why sacrifice the Dothraki in total darkness, when you are defending a castle?! Just hide behind the castle walls and let them come. There was also no use of flaming oil, which is just unrealistic. I'm a bit underwhelmed by how the Nightking met his end, and I was really expecting some sort of a twist... but no, it was all very straight forward.

I honestly didn't think the dead in the crypts would be brought back to life, because it would be so stupid for them to not think of that... but I guess they are just a bunch of idiots.

As for entertainment value, it was fun. I was surprised by how few characters actually died. It was a shame everything was so terribly dark too. It was really hard to see who was fighting what.


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## Kaodi (Apr 30, 2019)

On the contrary - I think Theon charging the Night King was the *only* reasonable thing to do. The undead had him and Bran completely surrounded. They had stopped. Clearly the Night King, being an arrogant son of an obsidian shard, has some sense of drama. If Theon had waited the guy would probably just get bored and have his unlimited zombies kill Theon. But he gave him an opening to take his shot and Theon took it. He had to. 

The one other thing that bothered me that I am not sure was ever in the books... They make it seem that dragonglass and Valyrian steel are undead "disrupting" weapons rather than white walker "bane" weapons. Yes, Arya kills the Night King with the Valyrian steel dagger, as it should be, but everywhere else they make it seem like they just allow you to kill wights as if they were still alive. Mormont stabbing the giant in the eye and killing it looked cool, but being stabbed should have been inconsequential.


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## Maxperson (Apr 30, 2019)

These are the two scenes that bugged me the most(my biggest peeve was the lighting).

1.  The Dothraki charge.

Jon: "Hey guys. We have the best cavalry in the world. I have an idea! First we put them outside at night on horseback in the snow and ice. Then Melisandre will light their swords on fire so what little vision they had goes away. Then we will send them charging out into the darkness and hope they don't all die in a horse slipping and crashing disaster, on their way to confront an enemy they can't see, don't know the numbers of, and don't quite know the location of. Oh, and the enemy can see in the dark. Then, the rest of the army will just hang back and watch! It will be great! Much better than lining the walls with them and their horse bows to shoot the dead when they come into sight."

Everyone else: "Sounds good to us."

2. The Night King's death.

I didn't mind Arya killing the Night King. I didn't like how fast he went from bad ass to dead. What I think should have been done is to spread out his white walkers among the dead as commanders. You could have had them facing off against leaders. I mean, how cool would it have been to have Jorah die defending Dany from a white walker. They could have killed each other simultaneously or something. Have others kicking ass. Then the Night King could have walked up to Theon who was the last person defending Bran and killed Theon that way, instead of having Theon stupidly charge the Night King and six or seven white walkers in order to not slow them down at all. After Theon dies and the Night King is going to kill Bran, Jon comes charging in and they get into a bad ass fight. Perhaps they wound each other a few times before Jon slips and falls, losing his sword. Just before the Night King plunges his sword down into Jon's chest, No One comes out of nowhere from behind and plunges her valyrian steel dagger into the Night Kings heart by stabbing him just under the arm pit.

That's how a BBEG should die. Not some 2 second now I'm undead and now I'm not.

Other than those two scenes, I loved the episode.  It had some other minor issues, but those are fine.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> I enjoyed the episode, but the battle tactics were very poor. You'd think given how much they already knew about the Whitewalkers, that they'd focus on taking them out. But apart from having Bran in the godswood, there seemed to be very little strategy to taking them out. The Nightking being downed from his dragon seemed more of a convient outcome rather than a deliberate tactic.
> 
> Also, why sacrifice the Dothraki in total darkness, when you are defending a castle?! Just die behind the castle walls and let them come.




Dothraki don't do tactics. They rush and overwhelm the enemy - it's all they know. This is the first enemy that has ever not worked against.


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## Kaodi (Apr 30, 2019)

Oh yeah, I also tend to think the Dothraki charge was dumb. In real life, as far as I know, much of the power of cavalry charges come from its ability to break lines through a combination of fear and momentum. The Dothraki charged headlong into a literally *wall* of undead, and the only thing that accomplishes is being surrounded by zombies and quickly dying to their counterattack. They should not have even attempted that without knowing what the enemy battle lines actually looked like.


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## Maxperson (Apr 30, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Dothraki don't do tactics. They rush and overwhelm the enemy - it's all they know. This is the first enemy that has ever not worked against.




Pretty sure they don't do it at night, though.  They know better than that.  And they would have realized that snow and ice are even more slippery.


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## Maxperson (Apr 30, 2019)

Kaodi said:


> Oh yeah, I also tend to think the Dothraki charge was dumb. In real life, as far as I know, much of the power of cavalry charges come from its ability to break lines through a combination of fear and momentum. The Dothraki charged headlong into a literally *wall* of undead, and the only thing that accomplishes is being surrounded by zombies and quickly dying to their counterattack. They should not have even attempted that without knowing what the enemy battle lines actually looked like.




Heavy Cavalry would smash into the lines to break them.  Light cavalry like the Dothraki would be used to hit the flanks of the enemy and peel away, harry retreating foes, or to screen and allow your troops to retreat.  All of those depend on knowing exactly where the enemy is.


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## Zardnaar (Apr 30, 2019)

Light cavalry is good once lines are broken or vs light infantry. It's not so good vs heavy infantry, archers, heavy cavalry. 

 Stupid cavalry charges have been done IRL though it happens.

 Arya getting the kill with the dagger from season in was sweet though.


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## Maxperson (Apr 30, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> Stupid cavalry charges have been done IRL though it happens.




Sure, but can you name one that happened at night in the pitch black, with torches in hand to remove all night vision, and across snow and icy conditions?


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## Zardnaar (Apr 30, 2019)

Maxperson said:


> Sure, but can you name one that happened at night in the pitch black, with torches in hand to remove all night vision, and across snow and icy conditions?




Maybe there was one of those battles in Russia fought against the Tartars IIRC in appalling conditions in the far north in twilight. I'll have to look into it it's been a while. 

 The commanders in the show haven't been depicted as idiots though. It's just more season 7 though rushing things.


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## Zaukrie (Apr 30, 2019)

Not every commander is good at strategy. Dany and Jon have shown they aren't. That didn't bother me. The plot armor of the main characters did.


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## Istbor (Apr 30, 2019)

While I have been re-watching the older seasons to just... look for minor details and refresh the oldest bits in my mind, I come to realize something. 

It is really kind of dumb, especially at this point to expect perfect and sometimes even common sense tactics from this fantasy show. 

While it is true that there are some battles or sides that use good tactics, most don't seem to. It is more for effect. 

Like... those assaulting King's Landing in the Battle for the Black Water. Most of the infantry didn't even have shields. Not just proper, crafted shields, but not even some bits of wood to stop an arrow. Shields were cheap. Unless you are telling me, that out of Stanis' 100K army, he choose to lead the assault off with the poorest equipped men? 

Heck, some of the guys WITH shields had them strapped to their backs or didn't bother to raise them once they took arrow fire.

I no longer expect GoT armies to employ proper tactics. I sit back and enjoy whatever atmosphere the manufactured battle was designed to portray.


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## Mercurius (Apr 30, 2019)

I read somewhere someone comparing the Night King to the golden snitch in Harry Potter's quidditch game. It is just a silly rule, making the rest of the game superfluous. Kill the Night King, win the whole thing.

And yeah, the White Walkers being nothing more than a cool looking entourage was rather...underwhelming.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

Mercurius said:


> I read somewhere someone comparing the Night King to the golden snitch in Harry Potter's quidditch game. It is just a silly rule, making the rest of the game superfluous. Kill the Night King, win the whole thing.




It's a well-known trope. 

Also see Independence Day, The Phantom Menace, The Last Starfighter, Army of Darkness, and a hundred more!


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## Mercurius (Apr 30, 2019)

Morrus said:


> It's a well-known trope.
> 
> Also see Independence Day, The Phantom Menace, The Last Starfighter, Army of Darkness, and a hundred more!




I realize that. It doesn't make it less silly, and of course it is important how it is implemented. Defeating the Night King just seemed too...easy. Such build-up and then, voila, done - and his entire army with him. Winter is no longer coming in one sneaky move by Arya.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

Mercurius said:


> I realize that. It doesn't make it less silly, and of course it is important how it is implemented. Defeating the Night King just seemed too...easy. Such build-up and then, voila, done - and his entire army with him. Winter is no longer coming in one sneaky move by Arya.




Well yeah. That’s the fundamental problem with the trope. It’s never been satisfying.


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## Imaculata (Apr 30, 2019)

As brought up earlier, I would have loved to see some of the other characters face off against the other White Walkers (several of our heroes have valerian steel swords after all). The way it was handled in this episode, the other White Walkers didn't get to do anything except walk behind the Nightking and die.

I can understand that they want the episode to look cool first and fore most, but when even lay persons comment on the lack of tactics, then you've goofed up. Also, I really wanted a cool twist in this episode. Have them lose for example.

But not all of it was bad. There were some amazing cinematic moments. I loved Arya's stealth bit in the library, and the way Melisandre met her end... to name a few.


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## Mercurius (Apr 30, 2019)

Or how about this. The Night King dies and all of the army and dragon die, but the White Walker survive and take off, hiding out for the rest of the season. A spin-off series starts a year or so later, when the different White Walkers create "terrorist cells," and the rulers (Jon? Dany? Sansa?) create a special force to hunt them down, led by...the Hound.


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## Mallus (Apr 30, 2019)

It struck me earlier today that the Night King wasn't ever really the main antagonist, he's the _foil_ to the main antagonist. Which is and always was people. Personified by Cersei and Euron at this point, but they could have been any of the bloody strivers trying for the Iron Throne. So I'm good with NK going down quick to Arya's knife work.

It also occurred to me that I was fine w/the "bad" tactics employed by Team Living because the whole point of those battle sequences was the living *lose*. They had no hope against this monstrous existential-threat-made-decaying-flesh army of death incarnate. 

Had Team Living *triumphed* in battle using poor tactics, I might feel differently. Since the good outcome depended on a death-cult trained prophesied princess and not correct siege engine placement, again, I'm good. 

Also, the bad tactics made for lovely cinema, especially the emotional whipsaw of Melisandre lighting the swords followed by the swords winking out in the darkness. Had I been watching a Twitch stream of Total War: Westeros and not HBO, I'd judge using different criteria.


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## Morrus (Apr 30, 2019)

Yes, that's an excellent point. They use bad tactics, and they pay for it. If Arya hadn't Phantom Menaced the evil army at the end, it would have simply been a massacre. It's not a mistake -- that's the plot.

And you just have to look at real life for similar examples. _Charge of the Light Brigade_, anybody?


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## Istbor (Apr 30, 2019)

Mercurius said:


> I realize that. It doesn't make it less silly, and of course it is important how it is implemented. Defeating the Night King just seemed too...easy. Such build-up and then, voila, done - and his entire army with him. Winter is no longer coming in one sneaky move by Arya.




Yeah. I think summing it up in Too easy or voila, done is over simplifying what was sacrificed. Those were whole armies being chewed up, spat out, and then raised back up to kill what remained of their once-allies. The impact was there, as well as the stakes. Kill the necromancer and defeat his thralls in one fell stab.


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## pukunui (Apr 30, 2019)

Good points, everyone! It reminds me of all those times where the PCs take out the BBEG more quickly and easily than the DM expected them too. That can feel anticlimactic too.

Let’s just hope the last three episodes top this one!

For one thing, now that Bran’s no longer in immediate danger, I’d like to see him actually do something useful with his powers again!



Morrus said:


> I kind of feel like Jaime, Tyrion, and Cersei need their own showdown. That family dynamic needs a payoff.



Yeah, fair enough! So what do you think will happen with Bronn?



> Heh. Maybe Arya will change her face, come Cersei, and rule Westeros!



Maybe!


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## Zardnaar (May 1, 2019)

In hindsight a fair bit of foreshadowing. Some previous posters spotted a few but here is 8.

http://whatculture.com/tv/game-of-thrones-8-moments-that-foreshadowed-spoilers-death


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## RangerWickett (May 1, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Well yeah. That’s the fundamental problem with the trope. It’s never been satisfying.




It can kinda work if you have a villain who uses magic to mind control an army or something, and killing him frees the people.


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## Maxperson (May 1, 2019)

I was thinking today.  Where did the Night King's white walker buddies come from?  We see him leaving Jon to be overrun, as he closes in on the gates to Winterfell.....all by himself.  He goes inside.  None of his buddies are seen in any of the battle scenes inside Winterfell, yet when he comes up to Bran he has his full posse with him.


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## Zardnaar (May 1, 2019)

Maxperson said:


> I was thinking today.  Where did the Night King's white walker buddies come from?  We see him leaving Jon to be overrun, as he closes in on the gates to Winterfell.....all by himself.  He goes inside.  None of his buddies are seen in any of the battle scenes inside Winterfell, yet when he comes up to Bran he has his full posse with him.




It doesn't matter. How dare you expect the episode to make sense after 8 seasons.  A few tweaks we're needed imho like some of them killing white walkers.


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## pukunui (May 1, 2019)

Maxperson said:


> I was thinking today.  Where did the Night King's white walker buddies come from?  We see him leaving Jon to be overrun, as he closes in on the gates to Winterfell.....all by himself.  He goes inside.  None of his buddies are seen in any of the battle scenes inside Winterfell, yet when he comes up to Bran he has his full posse with him.



There’s a quick scene of the white walkers approaching the gate. They must meet up with the Night King en route to the Godswood.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 1, 2019)

RangerWickett said:


> The Night King had this mystery behind him: "What's his deal? What motivates him? What will he do if he wins?"
> 
> I assumed they'd reveal something that would surprise us.
> 
> But apparently he was just an evil ice robot, with no depth and no point.




The novels are the "Song of Fire and Ice"... But the TV show is "Game of Thrones". Maybe that is something the two diverge deliberately, in the novels, the fight agaist the Night King might be the final battle. 

But maybe not. I don't remember anything from the novels about the Night King, and should we not have learned much more by now about him? 
I think he might just remain a more or less abstract enemy and the real things are always the human characters - characters that we can actually relate to.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully (May 1, 2019)

Morrus said:


> Huh. Lots of people have brown, green, or blue eyes. My eyes are blue. Maybe she meant me?




Maybe it happened so that all the people Arya killed so far didn't have blue eyes? Seems questionable, but I won't sift through the episodes to figure it out


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## Maxperson (May 1, 2019)

pukunui said:


> There’s a quick scene of the white walkers approaching the gate. They must meet up with the Night King en route to the Godswood.




Hmm.  I missed that in the blackness that was this episode.


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## Maxperson (May 1, 2019)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> But maybe not. I don't remember anything from the novels about the Night King, and should we not have learned much more by now about him?




His theme song is Behind Blue Eyes by The Who.  It is known.


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## Istbor (May 1, 2019)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> Maybe it happened so that all the people Arya killed so far didn't have blue eyes? Seems questionable, but I won't sift through the episodes to figure it out




There were other people with blue eyes she has killed. The trigger for the eureka moment in the last episode is actually a changing in the order the Red witch lists the colors. 

Here we see her list blue eyes last, and with some significant looks added for effect. So it isn't a huge leap that a horde of blue-eyed zombies' leader, with the same eye color, is targeted.


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## pukunui (May 1, 2019)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:


> I don't remember anything from the novels about the Night King, and should we not have learned much more by now about him?



There’s an historical figure called the Night’s King in the books, but no king of the white walkers has been introduced yet. In terms of the show’s Night King, I think we’ll have to wait for one of the spin-off series (apparently there are four in the works?!) to elaborate on his backstory / motivations.


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## Imaculata (May 2, 2019)

Istbor said:


> There were other people with blue eyes she has killed. The trigger for the eureka moment in the last episode is actually a changing in the order the Red witch lists the colors.
> 
> Here we see her list blue eyes last, and with some significant looks added for effect. So it isn't a huge leap that a horde of blue-eyed zombies' leader, with the same eye color, is targeted.




She could have just straight up told her that she is going to kill the Night King. Why bother talking in mysteries at this point?
Okay, I get that they're keeping it a surprise for us as an audience. But in the context of the story, it makes little sense to be so vague about it.


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## Maxperson (May 2, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> She could have just straight up told her that she is going to kill the Night King. Why bother talking in mysteries at this point?
> Okay, I get that they're keeping it a surprise for us as an audience. But in the context of the story, it makes little sense to be so vague about it.




Maybe for the same reason that their plan was to charge light cavalry into the middle of an enemy in the middle of the night with weapons that couldn't hurt them.


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## Zardnaar (May 2, 2019)

Maxperson said:


> Maybe for the same reason that their plan was to charge light cavalry into the middle of an enemy in the middle of the night with weapons that couldn't hurt them.




 The officers got trained via a book in the British Officer School of Cavalry Charges: Crimean War Edition with a preface by George Custer.


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## Tonguez (May 2, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> She could have just straight up told her that she is going to kill the Night King. Why bother talking in mysteries at this point?
> Okay, I get that they're keeping it a surprise for us as an audience. But in the context of the story, it makes little sense to be so vague about it.




Isn’t talking in riddles The Red Womens whole shtick though? (Okay that and lighting fires and birthing night terrors) but yeah I’ve come to expect riddles and misdirects as standard faire for the show


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## Morrus (May 2, 2019)

She did prove fairly useless, ultimately. I guess lighting the barricade was briefly helpful.


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## Istbor (May 2, 2019)

Imaculata said:


> She could have just straight up told her that she is going to kill the Night King. Why bother talking in mysteries at this point?
> Okay, I get that they're keeping it a surprise for us as an audience. But in the context of the story, it makes little sense to be so vague about it.




I think this has to be chalked up to the medium through which it was presented. I think if we were to have the same arc as in the books, it would be spelled out rather than the show runners trying to get gasps of surprise from the audience. 

But otherwise yeah. I would have flat out told her. I have been burned by too many DnD players missing my no so subtle clues, to leave something important like that up to chance and believe that she would understand my meaning.


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## variant (May 2, 2019)

[video=youtube;GI7zy1PTMp0]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GI7zy1PTMp0&t=552s[/video]


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## jonesy (May 3, 2019)

Earlier this week on reddit they linked to a news article by the cinematographer defending the lighting choices with basically "I know the episode wasn't too dark because I shot it" (the Business Insider site they link to is loaded with pop-up nonsense).

Well, now someone there mapped out the avarage colour of each frame for the episode. Spoilers, it's pretty damn dark.


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## Zardnaar (May 3, 2019)

https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment...hrones-screwing-up-its-eighth-season-probably

 The casuals are catching on.


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## Imaculata (May 3, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> https://i.stuff.co.nz/entertainment...hrones-screwing-up-its-eighth-season-probably
> 
> The casuals are catching on.




Filthy casuals!


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## jonesy (May 4, 2019)

[video=youtube;EUJdiZk6qig]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUJdiZk6qig[/video]


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## variant (May 4, 2019)

[video=youtube;EA5mJRFaI8c]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EA5mJRFaI8c[/video]
[video=youtube;jY2jAnV5Fa4]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jY2jAnV5Fa4[/video]


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## Maxperson (May 5, 2019)

Even articles having nothing to do with GoT are talking about episode 3.

https://news.yahoo.com/apos-universe-violent-place-apos-224522240.html

"And, much like the too-dark battle scenes in "GOT," none of this can be "seen." Rather, these collisions can be "heard" using sensitive equipment used to detect gravitational waves, the strange ripples in space-time first foreseen by Albert Einstein a century ago,"


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## Olgar Shiverstone (May 5, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> The officers got trained via a book in the British Officer School of Cavalry Charges: Crimean War Edition with a preface by George Custer.




Not to mention being led by Leeroy Jenkins.


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## Zardnaar (May 6, 2019)

BBC gave it a 3/5 hopefully this week's episode is better


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## Gladius Legis (May 6, 2019)

Zardnaar said:


> BBC gave it a 3/5 hopefully this week's episode is better




It's not. If anything it's even worse.


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## Zardnaar (May 6, 2019)

I liked it lol. Could have exposition heavy episodes almost every week.


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