# What 3rd-level spells should any Wizard prepare?



## dcollins

Here's a poll in a series I'm trying to use to generate a "baseline" core Wizard's spell list. You can pick as many selections as you like.

Say you have a Wizard of about 7th level -- adventuring, PC or NPC, non-specialized, non-multiclassed, core rules only. He or she can prepare maybe 3 spells of 3rd-level. What spells should he or she prepare in those slots?

You can pick as many selections as you'd like -- I would suggest around 3.


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## Scion

I picked: haste, slow, summon monster 3.

The first effects everyone in the party making everyone slightly better, and likely to last for the whole battle at this point (increased manuverability, harder to hit, easier to hit others, extra attack, just all around good stuff).

The second because it effects pretty much all of the opponents and cuts down their offensive ability to nearly nil while taking their defenses down as well.

The last because it has a good amount of versitility and power. There is some good beef there and several utility creatures. All around good!

I didnt choose any of the damage dealing spells because I have always found at this point the area of effect is likely to hurt some helpers, lots of resistances, some SR is popping up, not very much damage compared to hp.. that sort of thing


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## Li Shenron

The only one I could really suggest to every wizard to prepare is Dispel Magic, although I'd probably say one prepared is usually enough.

Otherwise, there are many others which are very good but you are not in trouble if you haven't prepared them / don't know them, unless a very specific circumstance comes up.


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## Dog Moon

I also chose Dispel Magic, though I also picked Suggestion and Hold Person.  Personally, I've always loved enchanters.  Suggestion is an awesome spell because you make the person attack someone else or other things.  Hold Person is cool because it, well, holds the person and allows you to beat on him.


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## dbm

I picked Fireball, Haste, Dispel Magic and Displacement (which is four, I know  ).  I have found Displacement to be a good defense as there are very few ways to counter it.  Plus it makes you immune to Sneak Attack Damage.

Cheers,
Dan


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## shilsen

Dispel Magic, Haste and Slow, for reasons mentioned above.


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## Nail

I picked Dispel Magic, Fly, and Slow.


Slow: an excellent attack spell!  So many monsters around EL 7 have multiple attacks - this spell all but neuters them.  Will saves for many monsters at this EL are low (unlike Fort).  Moreover, if your party is high in the mobility department, you can use ranged attacks for as long as you care to.  

Fly: Wizards all need a "get outta Dodge" spell.  This provides that....or provides that slow fighter with a much-needed boost of mobility.  (slap) "Go get 'im, Tiger!"  Limited usefulness in a low-ceiling dungeon, though.

Dispel Magic: this is highly campaign dependant.  One DM I play with rarely used spells on us at this level.  You really have to know your DM.  When I DM, I like using NPCs with potions and scrolls....Dispel Magic would strip them of all those low-level effects.

Still, I think _Fireball_ and _Summon Monster III_ are also excellent choices.  The SM III especially: Fiendish ape and celestial hippogriff are killer!


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## Hannibal Barca

Fireball/Iceburst, Fly, and Summon Monster III.

Iceburst is effectively fireball with a 30' radius albeit with burst as opposed to spread effect. Thats 50% more area covered.

Fly. No improved grab or grapple versus your 8 strength 25 hit point wizard. Nuff said.

Summon Monster III. Think of this as preemptive healing. All atacks your celestial bison or fiendish ape takes are attacks your party is not taking. Plus the continual damage (especially the fiendish ape) and the versatility (fiendish dire bat for flying opponents, etc) aren't so bad either.


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## Felix

Arcane Sight
Dispel Magic
[Open Slot]

Arcane Sight
A great spell for giving you an inkling when something is going to happen... you can even spot enemy mages on the prowl if you're studious enough. It will alert you to magical doors, thwart many illusions (by revealing their presence), and the duration is nice for its level.

Dispel Magic
Lowest level best utility anti-magic spell around. Can get rid of spell effects in an area, on a single person, or possibly counterspell anything cast by an enemy mage.

[Open Slot]
This is not an option for any spell you might like, but rather a choice a wizard makes too keep one of his higher level slots open so that if a situation requires, he can spend 15 minutes to get the right spell memorized to fit the occasion. I would have voted for this, but it wasn't an option.


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## Ottergame

This gets a little hard, because 3rd level spell is the point when a caster goes from being a liability who stands at the back of the party and tinking away with Magic Missle to ending fights before they ever start.

There are a LOT of really solid 3rd level spells.

Fireball is a classic, and while a bit overused perhaps, it can seriously put the hurt on a large number of enemies.

Fly is a great escape tool or can be used to circumvent traps, bad guys, or other un-nice things.

Gaseous Form is much like fly, you can get around things very easily.

Haste and slow can really turn the tide of battle.


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## drunkmoogle

Fireball, Haste, Slow, and Stinking Cloud.

I leave Dispel Magic to the clerics, as I have better spells to toss around. Haste is a great boost to both casters and melee characters, Slow neuters the multiple attacks most low-will characters have, and Stinking Cloud is my pick for battlefield control.

And... uh... Fireball.


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## Shin Okada

This is a hard question as spell choices for 5+ level wizards are almost indefinite.

But if you say "memorize", I don't recommend something does not need saves. When a wizard has at least above average wealth, he can make a lot of scrolls. Most situational spells and spells without saves should better be wrote into scrolls, than to be memorized (Who does not maka a scroll of Dispel Magic or two?). His slots should be left for something he can use his intelligence score as advantage.

So, I say Fireball or Slow.

Deep Slumber is not bad, too. But this spell affects on relatively smaller number of creatures comparing to the first 2 spells. Hold Person is good too but as Cleric can use this spell, a party wizard should better have other spell for tactical variety. Suggestion is language dependent and I found so many things does not understand common. Lightning Bolt is strong but in so many cases "burst" is better than "line".


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## the Jester

It really depends on the group's makeup and mission.  Is there a cleric who can take care of the dispels?  I voted for _fly, suggestion _and _lightning bolt._


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## EvilGM

Haste gives your side the edge in close battles.

Suggestion for numerous reasons.

Stinking cloud for battlefield control.

There are a lot of nice 3rd level spells that all wizards should have in their books (in addition to those above): Fly, Tongues, Dispel Magic, Shrink Item, Fireball or Lightning Bolt


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## Nail

Just to give this thread a bit more juice: I'd like to talk about spells that have been mentioned that are actually _terrible_ choices, given the purpose of this thread.  And boy-howdy, have there been a few:

*Deep Slumber*: Ouch!  This is would be a terrible choice for the non-specialist, general purpose, wizard's memorized spell list.  Range is only close, and the limit is only 10 HD....and by 7th level (EL 7+), things are gonna have more hit dice.  Moreover, many challenges at this level are unaffected by this type of magic.  Sorry: bad choice.  There are far better ones for the purpose of taking out an enemy or two.


*Gaseous Form*: a decent spell...for only a very few contigencies.  This isn't a great "escape spell" unless the stage is set just right.  You gain DR 10/magic...but at this level, things may very well have magic weapons.  You can pass thru cracks...but at a move of 10ft (no run), bad guys will get quite a few swings at you while yer workin' on that.  And, meanwhile, you can't cast any spells or attack in any way.  Result: a good spell, but just not useful enough in enough settings to make it a good "all-around" spell.


 *"Open Slot"* Generally speaking, its a bad idea for your highest level spell slots.  Sure the flexibility is nice...as long as you have the warning and ample time to prepare.  A Wiz 7 simply doesn't have enough slots of his highest level to waste them on open slots.  When he needs a 3rd level spell (his highest!), he needs it now.


*Arcane Sight* Wah?  This spell, given a Wiz 7, lasts 7 minutes.  That's simply _not enough time_ to be useful as an "advance detect" sort of spell.  IOW, your Wiz 7 doesn't have this up and running all the time.  Instead, this is a spell you use when you already know something's up...and frankly, it's not all that helpful in a battle.  During combat, you'd also like your allies to see what you can see; Gitterdust (2nd level!) or Dispel Magic is by far a better spell for much of what Arcane Sight would do.  The rest can be taken care of (out of combat) with a Detect Magic.


*Haste*: I think people are picking it because of what it did in 3.0e.  Have you looked over the spell since then?  Bottom Line: +30 speed, +1 attack, +1 AC, and an extra attack with a full attack action.  That's good, true, but it's not good enough.  Those bonuses are useless to spell casters, like wizard and clerics....and in an average party, that's half the party members!  Also: While your casting Haste, you could have been casting some of the real bread-and-butter of the Wiz/Sor 3rd level spell list: Fireball, Fly, Slow, Stinking Cloud, and Summon Monster III, to name a few.   Okay, I'm reaching a bit on this one.......

Responses?


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## Scion

hey nail 

as I stated in my first post I picked: haste, slow, summon monster 3.

Slow is good all around for various combats, but some battles it wont help with.

Summon monster 3 is just good for every type of situation that might come up.

Haste however, it works in situations where the others arent of much help.

First of all, it works on the whole party. Big buffer! Along with that it grants extra mobility, extra ability to hit people, extra ac, and an extra attack at times. Everyone gets something from it. The caster types can move around more if they need to and avoid more attacks, those who like to attack (even the cleric fits in here) has better defenses and better attacking power.

All around it is just a good spell. Mainly because everyone gets some sort of boost out of it and it works in situations where slow would not be nearly as effective (having both means that for a single battle, if it is really big, you can swing things incredibly in favor of your party.. whereas having two slows memorized would not necissarily do so).

And, most importantly, it makes your summon monster better


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## Shard O'Glase

I went with slow and I also like GMW at 7th its only +1 but 1 level more and its a +2 that lasts for 8 hours.  I really like this in the golf bag style games I've been in, it allows the players to focus on 1 weapon for imporvements but buff up a non imporved DR penetrating weapon on the fly.  So 8+ I like this spell.

And by the way maybe its just my games but any 1 round cast spell is virtually useless at these levels.  They seem to make they guy who is already a high priority target the virtually guaranteed target for that round.  If some spellcaster is chanting for entire round I'm expecting something impresive and I want to stop that, and if it ends up that the spellcaster not only survives but makes his/her concentration check and the spell summons some punk SM3 monster that most CR appropriate threats don't even consider a speedbump its just sad.

Like I said maybe its how we play our games but 1 round cast time spells should be bad assed in comparison to other spells of that level and at least with the SM line they aren't.


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## ForceUser

Dispel Magic is the only slam dunk; the rest are too situational. That said, every wizard should be toting around a wand of _fireballs_. When all else fails, apply damage. Repeatedly.


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## Doug McCrae

Not enough love for Fireball, surprisingly. It's absolutely the key wizard spell at that level doing what only wizards (yeah OK and druids but not at that level) can do - mass take out.

Fireball - When you absolutely, positively gotta kill every mutha-er inna room.


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## RuminDange

I voted for:
*Fireball* Got to have a good damage to lots of things spell. And fireball tends to be the most common.
*Blink*  or *Displacement* either of these tend to be very good at defense for a spellcaster.  I've seen a Blink spell drive a 36th level PC crazy, since as a Rgr/Sorc/Arcane Archer he never took things like dispel magic so he could never attack the BBEG and he was alone after the BBEG tore up the other PC helping in with a critical from a very very bad sword and sneak attack.
*Dispel Magic* or *Fly* If you have a cleric or not having dispel magic can make a big difference, if you have scrolls or a wand of dispel magic, then I'd go with Fly.

RD


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## dcollins

Nail said:
			
		

> A Wiz 7 simply doesn't have enough slots of his highest level to waste them on open slots.  When he needs a 3rd level spell (his highest!), he needs it now.




Although I would personally agree with your conclusion, note that a Wiz7 does in fact have a 4th level spell slot. The poll is actually set up specifically so the question is not about the wizard's highest spell slot.


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## irdeggman

I voted for Fireball (come on its expected for the wizard to have that one)

Invisibility Sphere (real handy spell, effects the group too)

and Dispel Magic  (although this spell just cries to be placed on a scroll IMO) which would free up for fly or blink.


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## irdeggman

Nail said:
			
		

> Just to give this thread a bit more juice: I'd like to talk about spells that have been mentioned that are actually _terrible_ choices, given the purpose of this thread.  And boy-howdy, have there been a few:
> 
> *Haste*: I think people are picking it because of what it did in 3.0e.  Have you looked over the spell since then?  Bottom Line: +30 speed, +1 attack, +1 AC, and an extra attack with a full attack action.  That's good, true, but it's not good enough.  Those bonuses are useless to spell casters, like wizard and clerics....and in an average party, that's half the party members!  Also: While your casting Haste, you could have been casting some of the real bread-and-butter of the Wiz/Sor 3rd level spell list: Fireball, Fly, Slow, Stinking Cloud, and Summon Monster III, to name a few.   Okay, I'm reaching a bit on this one.......
> 
> Responses?




Actually the extra 30' movement can be real advantagous. It allows the party to close quicker (against ranged attackers) and allows the wizard (and cleric) to get away quicker.  Alright it also allows the cleric to get to the injured party members faser to heal them.

No, even with its downgrading in 3.5 this is still a pretty good all party spell.


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## Ziggy

irdeggman said:
			
		

> Actually the extra 30' movement can be real advantagous. It allows the party to close quicker (against ranged attackers) and allows the wizard (and cleric) to get away quicker.  Alright it also allows the cleric to get to the injured party members faser to heal them.
> 
> No, even with its downgrading in 3.5 this is still a pretty good all party spell.




Agree, Haste is still *very* good, especially at lower levels. The movement is essential, both in closing with enemies, and to get away from trouble (also for archers). And the extra attack will (almost) double the firepower at these levels, makin a big difference. 

On higher levels Haste is less essential, as you have many more opportunities for movement, and the extra attack is less of an difference. Still my 15th level mage still cast it from time to time, depending on the encounter parameters.

.Ziggy


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## Zepherus Bane

Fly and Dispel Magic are my picks.  Always need a way to get away and if you don't have break enchantment, Dispel Magic is often good enough for the job.


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## dcollins

Thanks for the responses, all. Here's the current results (those within 50% of top in bold):

*
64	Dispel Magic
53	Fireball
45	Fly
38	Haste*
20	Slow
12	Lightning Bolt
10	Arcane Sight
10	Protection from Energy
9	Displacement
8	Summon Monster III
7	Hold Person
6	Magic Circle Against Chaos/Evil/Good/Law
6	Suggestion
5	Clairaudience/Clairvoyance
5	Magic Weapon, Greater
5	Stinking Cloud
4	Gaseous Form
4	Invisibility Sphere
4	Tiny Hut
4	Tongues
3	Blink
3	Heroism
3	Nondetection
3	Vampiric Touch
2	Explosive Runes
2	Flame Arrow
2	Sleet Storm
2	Water Breathing
2	Wind Wall
1	Deep Slumber
1	Keen Edge
1	Major Image
1	Rage
1	Ray of Exhaustion
0	Daylight
0	Gentle Repose
0	Halt Undead
0	Illusory Script
0	Phantom Steed
0	Secret Page
0	Sepia Snake Sigil
0	Shrink Item


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## Testament

Fireball:  If at first you don't succeed, blow it up.
Dispel Magic: COMPULSORY!  So many situations can be cleaned up with this.
Fly: If fireballing doesn't work, make an exit.
Haste: The party will love you for it.


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## Darmanicus

Dispel Magic: the only reason we managed to take out a Minotaur Blackguard with some really annoying DRing armour.
Haste: so what if it's been nerfed for 3.5, it still gives out a few abilities to everybody in the party and there's been absolutely NO complaints whatsoever.
Displacement: my character has a belt with this enchantment on it and it's the only reason I'm still around to tell tha tale.


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## Nail

dcollins said:
			
		

> Although I would personally agree with your conclusion, note that a Wiz7 does in fact have a 4th level spell slot. The poll is actually set up specifically so the question is not about the wizard's highest spell slot.



Whoops.


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