# NFL Week 15



## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

Some great games today.  Big Ben is aksed to win the game and he does.  Atlanta and Carolina game has been very good.

So, ESPN has this pass track thing during the games they show.  It shows the distance the ball was thrown, the height of the ball during the arc, and the mph of the throw.  Then then announcers say something that makes no sense something like "and that pass that was at 47mpgh is the equivalant of a 97mph fastball".  Anyone have a clue what they are trying to say with that?


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## ph34r (Dec 19, 2004)

I think they mean that if the QB was throwing a baseball instead of a football then it would be this fast instead.


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## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

so it might just be as meaningless as it sounds.....

big win for the Falcons in OT...what a great game!!


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## ph34r (Dec 19, 2004)

I only got to see the 4th Quarter and OT of the Atlanta/Carolina game. How Vick kept his knees off the ground on that TD run is beyond me.


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## msd (Dec 19, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Then then announcers say something that makes no sense something like "and that pass that was at 47mpgh is the equivalant of a 97mph fastball".  Anyone have a clue what they are trying to say with that?




I understood that to mean that a pass with those numbers can be thrown by perhaps 4 or 5 quarterbacks in the league...in other words, its like a 97 mph fastball in terms of rarity of ability...

That could be totally wrong though...I agree that it wasn't totally clear what they were getting after.

So hoping the Ravens shut Peyton down tonight,
msd


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## drothgery (Dec 19, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> so it might just be as meaningless as it sounds.....
> 
> big win for the Falcons in OT...what a great game!!




It would have been a big win for Carolina. For Atlanta, it was pretty much meaningless. It's extemely unlikely that they'll catch the Eagles, or slip behind the Pack, and they've already won their division.


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## Mystery Man (Dec 19, 2004)

*sigh* I fell asleep for the second half last night and woke to see Delhomme throw an interception and lose the game. Damn you new sofa! Damn you to hell!!

 I'm sitting on the floor for these night games from now on.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 19, 2004)

Here's and excerpt of what I wrote in my online journal about the Carolina game:


 here's some advice to all of you out there who run a football team on any level in real life or even a video game. if both teams are being offensively dominating, you have over a minute left on the clock, with one timeout, score tied, on your own thirty yard line, DON'T RUN THE BALL! it's stupid. all you need is a field goal to win the game instead of going into over time where the flip of a coin decides who gets the ball first and most likely wins the game. you don't have to make deep passes, just throw it short, get first downs, and then get out of bounds to stop the clock. don't try to get cute and end up losing the game because of it.


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## Mark (Dec 19, 2004)

msd said:
			
		

> I understood that to mean that a pass with those numbers can be thrown by perhaps 4 or 5 quarterbacks in the league...in other words, its like a 97 mph fastball in terms of rarity of ability...




Yup.  Meaning "not many QBs throw that fast/hard".




			
				Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> here's some advice to all of you out there who run a football team on any level in real life or even a video game. if both teams are being offensively dominating, you have over a minute left on the clock, with one timeout, score tied, on your own thirty yard line, DON'T RUN THE BALL! it's stupid. all you need is a field goal to win the game instead of going into over time where the flip of a coin decides who gets the ball first and most likely wins the game. you don't have to make deep passes, just throw it short, get first downs, and then get out of bounds to stop the clock. don't try to get cute and end up losing the game because of it.




Depends very much on the quality of your QB and receivers.  If your one-minute drill game is poor, and that of your opponent is good, that's not a great plan.  An interception and score by the other team that could have been prevented by patience and going into overtime might be the result.  The most dangerous time, when it comes to interceptions, is when a team has no choice but to be throwing toward the sidelines (to control the clock).  Running the ball is much, much safer and, you never know, something might shake loose and you might get into field goal range or even score a touchdown.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 19, 2004)

Mark said:
			
		

> Depends very much on the quality of your QB and receivers.  If your one-minute drill game is poor, and that of your opponent is good, that's not a great plan.  An interception and score by the other team that could have been prevented by patience and going into overtime might be the result.  The most dangerous time, when it comes to interceptions, is when a team has no choice but to be throwing toward the sidelines (to control the clock).  Running the ball is much, much safer and, you never know, something might shake loose and you might get into field goal range or even score a touchdown.





True, but as a general rule what Carolina did at the end of regulation was pretty dumb as they were doing quite well with their pass game already.


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## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

it is almost a no win for the coach...the only way they look good is if what they do gets them a win.  Otherwise everyone second guesses them


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## Mark (Dec 19, 2004)

Delhomme is tied for fourth in the league with 15 interceptions (Palmer/Cin 18, Testaverde/Dal 17, Plummer/Den 17, Bledsoe/Buf 15, Feeley/Mia 15, Collins/Oak 15), and last year was tied for seventh with 16 (so he's on pace to get more than last year).  He's got good numbers this year with yards and decent connects for TDs but only his coach really knows how likely he is to give up a pick in the clutch.

A *short* pass to the sidelines that is intercepted is more difficult to recover from (tackling the interceptor) because of how few offensive-turned-defensive players you have between the interceptor and your own goal line.  The interceptor is basically as close to the goal line as anyone because he is on a straight line to the end zone pylon and even your quarterback is on an angle to it, and he (more often than not) has momentum taking him in the direction of scoring while everyone on your now-defensive team has their momentum carrying them in the wrong direction (after the interception).  Furthermore, because the interceptor his near the sideline, he's also as far as possible from any of your erstwhile tacklers (who, as members of the offensive team, are primarily not used to tackling anyone on a regular basis).  Short passes to the sidelines during hurry-up play are both the most likely time for an interception and the worst possible time for it.

Sorry, I agree that it *might* be worth the risk but there's no denying that it *is* a risk (while you seem to be saying it is a no brainer and actually "stupid" to be doing otherwise).


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 19, 2004)

Yet just within the context of the game itself Carolina's passing game was going great, I think you have to look at the situational factors at a time like that and decide that since you, as the Panthers, NEED the win, you better be playing for the win.


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## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

Bengals are hitting the showers early against Buffalo...and it looks like the Browns as well......Phili is in a dog fight against Dallas...Jets doing a nice job on Seatle....

Not the most exciting group of early games....


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 19, 2004)

As a side not, Denver really knows how to lose a game, huh?


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## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

no, I'd say when KC's offense is rolling, nothing stops it.  

This play in the Jags Packers game is just odd......Sharper takes advantage of what seemed like a dead play, but no whistle was blown....


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 19, 2004)

Yeah, quite possibly one of the oddest touchdowns I've ever seen.


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## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

Welcome to the Twilight zone, its official...Chargers win the AFC West... 

Only the 2 wildcards left in the AFC to figure out...of course then there's the NFC that only 2 teams have secured their place.......


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 19, 2004)

Yeah, should be interesting. Chargers I think are the dark horse in the AFC playoffs, they could catch some people off guard.


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## Crothian (Dec 19, 2004)

well, depending on the wildcardds, I don't think there is an easy road for anyone in the AFC.  It will be very interesting to see the seeding at the end of the season.  I wnat Chargers to be third seed because I think my steelers will have an easier time against the Colts...but there's a lot of great football left.....


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

another suprise...Arizona...5-9 Arizona...they can still win the Division with a pair of wins and some help.....

They can beat Seattle and Tampa Bay as their last two games.....Seattle would also have to loose to Atlanta the final week.  Rams would need to lose to Phili and the Jets.  That's not that far fetched!!


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## RichCsigs (Dec 20, 2004)

Okay... they just said on ESPN that it's mathematically possible that Arizona could win it's division... with a record of 7 - 9!!  Not a playoff birth, but their division!

Meanwhile, the Pats could go 15 - 1 and not win the AFC conference.

What a whacky year this is...

What a surprising ending to that Detroit/Minnisota game huh?


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

I could really see Arizona going to the playoffs, and pulling off a win against the Vikings or Packers. I think NE will get home field through out though, they have a much easier closing schedule than the Steelers do.


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## Mark (Dec 20, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Yet just within the context of the game itself Carolina's passing game was going great, I think you have to look at the situational factors at a time like that and decide that since you, as the Panthers, NEED the win, you better be playing for the win.




It's one way to do it; Going for the win in the last minute with the score tied.  I still feel that no matter the individual situation the risk outweighs the potential reward.

Anyway...

Go Colts!


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

Things are just so ugly this year. Philly IS the best team in the NFC, but that isn't saying much at all. They nearly lost to the Browns.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

It's a wacky year...now we have the Colts verse their ild town...Baltimore Ravens......


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

I think the Ravens just might be able to stop the offensive onslaught, maybe anyway.


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## DaveMage (Dec 20, 2004)

How 'bout them Jaguars!

Woo hoo!


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

Jags are a tough team, and I think if they get in the playoffs no one will want to play them.  But that really goes for most of the other teams as well.  

Go Ravens!!


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

no record for Manning (yet!!)...but no win for the Ravens...that was a good game.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

That was a good game. And probably the best ending there could of been for it.


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## Mark (Dec 20, 2004)

As much as I would have loved the points for my fantasy squads, and as much as a lot of us would have loved to see Manning tie the record, he sure is one classy guy to take a knee on the three yard line with a ten point lead and nearly a minute left on the clock.

(No sense risking an interception, eh, Captain Tagon?  )


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

Mark said:
			
		

> (No sense risking an interception, eh, Captain Tagon?  )





They weren't losing and it wasn't a must win game.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

I knew Manning and Dungy would take a knee.  They are individuals of class.  

Next, Colts verse Chargers and the winner gets the three seed in the playoffs.  

So, anyone giving Miami a chance tommorrow night?


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## Mystery Man (Dec 20, 2004)

Watching Sportscenter. Ferguson got feeling back in his legs on the way to the hospital. *whew*


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, anyone giving Miami a chance tommorrow night?





A chance, it is a division game. AFC teams get up for those division games, no matter how good or bad each team is. That's why I'm scared about the Ravens next week.


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## Mark (Dec 20, 2004)

Miami is not even giving Miami a chance so why should anyone else? 



			
				Jim Bates said:
			
		

> (On if he’s looking forward to his first Monday Night Football game as a head coach and if it means anything to him at all) – “Not really. It’s just another ballgame, Monday night, in front of everybody in the country and all these players’ peers, like we mentioned yesterday. It’s another football game. There won’t be any more rush for this one than there was for the first one.”
> 
> (On whether the fans understand and give credit to the 2-11 record due to all the injuries and circumstances) – “You can’t ever look at the injuries. This is the National Football League and we’ve had a rash of injuries this year. We just go out there and the guys that play on Sunday and this being Monday night, they play hard, they fill in, and they’ve done an outstanding job. We don’t dwell on the injuries.”




http://www.miamidolphins.com/pressbox/pressreleases/pressreleases.asp?contentID=3645


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Watching Sportscenter. Ferguson got feeling back in his legs on the way to the hospital. *whew*





And that's really awesome, though I still can't decide if I think the clothesline was intentional or not. Some angles it looked like he did it on purpose and some angles it looked like he was going for a tackle and just ended up higher than he intended.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> A chance, it is a division game. AFC teams get up for those division games, no matter how good or bad each team is. That's why I'm scared about the Ravens next week.




That and the Ravens are playing for a playoff spot and tough defensives have offered the Steelers some of the toughest games.  

I just don't want the Steelers to turn into the 99 Jaguars.  The Jaguars where 14-2, and lost in the Championship game of the playoff I think.  All three loses were to the same team, the Titans.


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## Mystery Man (Dec 20, 2004)

Watched the 60 minutes interview with Ricky Williams and really the only thing that became clear was: This is what happens when you smoke waaay too much pot. But then, I knew that already.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Watched the 60 minutes interview with Ricky Williams and really the only thing that became clear was: This is what happens when you smoke waaay too much pot. But then, I knew that already.




Ya, I've seen it happen to friends...in a few years hopefully the "Don't do drugs" people will be using him as an example.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 20, 2004)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Watched the 60 minutes interview with Ricky Williams and really the only thing that became clear was: This is what happens when you smoke waaay too much pot. But then, I knew that already.





Yeah, what little I saw of the interview just prompted me to think that he has the mental facualties of my eight year old cousin.


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## mythusmage (Dec 20, 2004)

Well, next Sunday the Chargers have what is essentially their first playoff game. (Think about it.)


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

mythusmage said:
			
		

> Well, next Sunday the Chargers have what is essentially their first playoff game. (Think about it.)




Not really.  The loser is still in the playoffs; they are just fighting for position.


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## Acid_crash (Dec 20, 2004)

Here's to the Arizona Cardinals winning the division and surprising everybody and winning the NFC.   

Now, about that Lion who threw the game at the end, what the hell was that all about?  

Jacksonville and Packers had the game of the day, the fumbles, turnovers, wild plays, improbable interceptions at the end of the game, and the best clothesline move I haven't seen since Wrestlemania.    This game had it all, and the better team today won.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

Acid_crash said:
			
		

> Now, about that Lion who threw the game at the end, what the hell was that all about?




Rookie long snapper, it was a mistake and the poor kid looked devistated.


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## Krug (Dec 20, 2004)

Boy am I glad Manning didn't go off today. Looks like my fantasy football team still has a chance for the championship game!


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## ph34r (Dec 20, 2004)

Two words...Dwight Freeny! That man is freakin sick nasty.


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## Storminator (Dec 20, 2004)

Krug said:
			
		

> Boy am I glad Manning didn't go off today. Looks like my fantasy football team still has a chance for the championship game!




Yeah, but did you see the numbers I put up this week?!? I'm in both ENWorld leagues, and I had Collins and Culpepper. In one of the leagues I had Jerry Porter and Drew Bennett, and they traded TDs for the whole game.

And my Raiders won, and Denver hasn't won a game since the Raiders dropped 'em out of first place. Even KC winning can't spoil the mood.

I see both Pittsburg and the Pats winning out, with the home field going to Pittsburg. If Philly keeps winning we could have three 15-1 teams. Then a 7-9 team could make the playoffs. What a wacky year!

PS


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## DaveMage (Dec 20, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> And that's really awesome, though I still can't decide if I think the clothesline was intentional or not. Some angles it looked like he did it on purpose and some angles it looked like he was going for a tackle and just ended up higher than he intended.




Darius said afterward that it was not intentional ( story: http://www.jacksonville.com/tu-online/stories/122004/jag_bar2.shtml ), but I will say that it's the first time I've ever seen a hit in a football game where I was really worried for the player's life (or at least, livelihood).  I was afraid his trachea had been crushed.

My fellow Jaguar fans may not agree, but I support the decision to eject Darius for the rest of the game due to the result.


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## drothgery (Dec 20, 2004)

ph34r said:
			
		

> Two words...Dwight Freeny! That man is freakin sick nasty.




He single-handedly made the 2001 Syracuse Orangemen a respectable team. Anyone who's seen the post-McNAbb Orange should realize exactly how difficult this is to do.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

Freeny is very impressive.  He might even be better the the "Freak" Kearse......


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## Laurel (Dec 20, 2004)

*A family divided*

Yes the Eagles did win, but happily the cowboys almost won!  No, I don't care by how much and no I don't care the TO got a broken ankle and no I don't care that is was a hopeless dream.  They still almost won 

Now to see how these last two go for them,not that it matters for standings.  Just pride.  Hopefully if Andy takes McNabb out of the next two games early, he will actually be ready for the play-offs.


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## Crothian (Dec 20, 2004)

a moral victory is sometimes a good thing.....

So, the big game Christmas Weekeend...Chargers, Colts...predictions?


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## Dimwhit (Dec 20, 2004)

So the Eagles' Superbowl hopes may have gone down the drain. Terrell Owens is out for the season and the playoffs, with a slim chance of making the Superbowl. He was the final key to their offense, which without him, lacked a serious deep passing game. Without him, we may very well be looking at a 4th straight playoff slump for Philly. Maybe not, but possible. Don't know that my Falcons will beat them, but I think someone will.

As for the Colts/Chargers, I'm going with the Chargers. They're just too hot right now.

My AFC prediction? If Buffalo can get in the playoffs, they're my upset pick for the big game. They're arguably the best team in football right now. They could take NE and Pitt the way they're playing. Oddly enough, they'll get the chance pretty soon, here. But actually making the playoffs will be tough to do. They need help.


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## Vorith (Dec 21, 2004)

Dimwhit said:
			
		

> So the Eagles' Superbowl hopes may have gone down the drain. Terrell Owens is out for the season and the playoffs






courtesy of the man ROY WILLIAMS!!


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

Doubters!!!!  Miami wins in a huge upset!!!!!  Holy cow!!  Holy Toledo!!


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## ph34r (Dec 21, 2004)

I DEMAND A RECOUNT!


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 21, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Doubters!!!!  Miami wins in a huge upset!!!!!  Holy cow!!  Holy Toledo!!





Amazing last two minutes. And Pittsburgh looks to be sitting pretty!!!!


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

ph34r said:
			
		

> I DEMAND A RECOUNT!




Brady needs to learn to take a sack.  They could in theory lose home field advantage.  The Jets need the win.


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## drothgery (Dec 21, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> a moral victory is sometimes a good thing.....
> 
> So, the big game Christmas Weekeend...Chargers, Colts...predictions?




I'd like to take the local guys, but I can't see the Chargers D stopping the Colts any more than I can see the Colts D stopping the Chargers. And you've got to favor Indy in a shootout at the RCA Dome.


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Amazing last two minutes. And Pittsburgh looks to be sitting pretty!!!!




Ya, they needed it.  Ravens then Bills is not a good way to end the year, each of them have something to play for.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 21, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Brady needs to learn to take a sack.  They could in theory lose home field advantage.  The Jets need the win.





J-E-T-S Jets! Jets! Jets! Jets!


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## Darthjaye (Dec 21, 2004)

Dammit!!  I'm a huge Miami fan, but are they trying not to get the first pick in the draft or what!!!  Well, I guess I get the joy of knowing they stopped the Partiots at least once this season.  Hey, and my son (who's 2 years old) got to say 'tot down' a lot tonight!!  Course he is a toddler so he could have been falling a lot and pointing it out.  Damn, I just realized something else....next week they have the Browns.....damn they're gonna go 4 and 11.  Not sure who they play the final week but it sure looks like we're gonna sink down that first round draft list fast now.....


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

drothgery said:
			
		

> I'd like to take the local guys, but I can't see the Chargers D stopping the Colts any more than I can see the Colts D stopping the Chargers. And you've got to favor Indy in a shootout at the RCA Dome.




The only advantage I can see the Chargers have LT and a good running game to eat clock.  But I agree the Colts are looking pretty darn good and I expect them to win.


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## Krug (Dec 21, 2004)

Gosh what a silly throw by Brady. But I'm sure the Pats will rise from this and make a great playoff run. Good job by the Dolphins though. Great game!


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## ph34r (Dec 21, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Brady needs to learn to take a sack.  They could in theory lose home field advantage.  The Jets need the win.




I'm not worried!


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

Krug said:
			
		

> Gosh what a silly throw by Brady. But I'm sure the Pats will rise from this and make a great playoff run. Good job by the Dolphins though. Great game!




Ya, after they lost on Halloween, they destroyed the next few opponents.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 21, 2004)

The Jets will be up for the game next week though. Now the Steelers just need to play hard against the Ravens and the Bills. Maybe the Rams can pull it off next Monday as well.

Steelers vs. Cardinals in the Super Bowl. You heard it here first.


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## ph34r (Dec 21, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Steelers vs. Cardinals in the Super Bowl.




Funniest thing I've read in awhile!


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 21, 2004)

ph34r said:
			
		

> Funniest thing I've read in awhile!





I can dream, can't I? And you're from NC, why pull for NE anyway?

(Then again I'm from NC and I'm a Steelers fan.)


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> Maybe the Rams can pull it off next Monday as well.




Well, Phili minus TO is a different team.  THe Rams can be great or lousy....flip a coin at the beginning of the game and find out.  

What is the ie breaker if the Pats end up with three loses and so do the chargers?  I know the Pats hold the tiebreaker over the Colts since the meet head to head, but not sure what the tiebreaker is for the Chargers.  They both have now lost one game in the division and 2 games in the AFC.


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

ph34r said:
			
		

> Funniest thing I've read in awhile!




Ya, but the way the NFC is going....well, let us see if the Cards get to the playoffs.  They make it that far, I'll pull for them hard!!


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## ph34r (Dec 21, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> I can dream, can't I? And you're from NC, why pull for NE anyway?
> 
> (Then again I'm from NC and I'm a Steelers fan.)




I didn't used to like watching football that much a few years ago. I started watching games here and there on Sundays and sort of just took to liking NE. Maybe being a Red Sox fan has something to do with it!   

(And no, I don't like the Celtics.)


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

ph34r said:
			
		

> (And no, I don't like the Celtics.)




Who does?  But the real question is are you a Bruins fan?


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 21, 2004)

That works, the only reason I'm a Steelers fan is cause my dad is one. And the only reason he is is because when he was growing up was in the '70s when they were really good and some family friends lived up there and would send him newspaper clippings about the Steelers so that's been my team since I was tiny. Even more than the Panthers.


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## ph34r (Dec 21, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Who does?  But the real question is are you a Bruins fan?




Not a hockey fan.  :\


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

Captain Tagon said:
			
		

> That works, the only reason I'm a Steelers fan is cause my dad is one. And the only reason he is is because when he was growing up was in the '70s when they were really good and some family friends lived up there and would send him newspaper clippings about the Steelers so that's been my team since I was tiny. Even more than the Panthers.




my great grandfather and grandfather were both workers in the Pitsburgh steel mills.  Both my parents grew up in the Pitsburgh area and are fans, and I remember watching games with my grandparents and hearing tales of Franko's Italian army (the fanatical fan group for Franco Harris).


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## Mark (Dec 21, 2004)

In the two fantasy leagues I am in...

ENWorld League - Congrats to Krug who beat me (Creative's Creatures) handily to give himself a shot at the big final game against Stormination.  I look forward to playing the Hometown Heroes next week for third (or fourth) place.

EN World League - Next week, I am up against Stormination myself (Mountain Maulers) for first or second place bragging rights.  Best of luck to the Storm who this week put up scores around 120 pts (in both leagues!).  Hopefully, Peyton Manning will be back in form next week and ready to rock.  Go Colts!


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## Barak (Dec 21, 2004)

*Woah*

The last week of the season best game should be Pitt against Buffalo.  Pittsburgh is playing crazy football this year, but Buffalo is on a great streak.  Chances are very good Buffalo will be playing for a playoff spot, and the game will be in Buffalo.  This late in the season, chances are good it'll be in a snowstorm.  And no team plays in the snow as well as Buffalo.  Too bad it isn't against Miami..  At least Pittsburgh is used to the cold..


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## Mystery Man (Dec 21, 2004)

Holy crap!

 Patriots: 28
 Miami:    29


 !!!


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## drothgery (Dec 21, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> What is the ie breaker if the Pats end up with three loses and so do the chargers?  I know the Pats hold the tiebreaker over the Colts since the meet head to head, but not sure what the tiebreaker is for the Chargers.  They both have now lost one game in the division and 2 games in the AFC.




Hmm... at 14-2, the Pats can only tie with the Steelers.

At 13-3, the Pats could tie with the Chargers or Colts (but not both), and/or the Steelers. They win a two-way tie with the Colts, and lose to the Steelers, based on head-to-head.

Since the Pats and Chargers didn't play, conference record is the next tiebreaker, so it would depend on how the Pats got to 13-3. If they lost to the Jets and beat the 49ers, the Chargers own the tiebreaker based on a better conference record. If they beat the Jets and lost to the 49ers, then it proceeds to the next tiebreaker, but the Chargers and Pats have fewer than 4 common opponents (just Indy and the Jets), so then it goes to "Strength of Victory", and it's impossible to figure that one out.

In a three-way tie with the Chargers, Pittsburgh would be eliminated based on conference record, and then the previous Pats/Chargers rules would apply. In a three-way tie with the Colts and Steelers, the Pats win if they beat the Jets (and so have the best conference record); with the same conference record it gets very messy. Same deal if the Chargers and Pats tie at 12-4.


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## Storminator (Dec 21, 2004)

Mark said:
			
		

> In the two fantasy leagues I am in...
> 
> ENWorld League - Congrats to Krug who beat me (Creative's Creatures) handily to give himself a shot at the big final game against Stormination. I look forward to playing the Hometown Heroes next week for third (or fourth) place.
> 
> EN World League - Next week, I am up against Stormination myself (Mountain Maulers) for first or second place bragging rights. Best of luck to the Storm who this week put up scores around 120 pts (in both leagues!). Hopefully, Peyton Manning will be back in form next week and ready to rock. Go Colts!



 I should be favored in both leagues. Have you seen the defenses my players up against?!? KC, Oakland, SF, Indy, NO...

 I should be putting up points in bucketloads.

 PS


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## Stone Angel (Dec 21, 2004)

Wow what a week my colts keep rollin and the Almighty Pats and their Goldenboy CHOKE!!! Now if only the game actually meant something. 

Some good football this week Chargers looked good in an off enviroment. I despise Terrell Owens but I don't think he deserved to be injured for the season. Wonder how this will affect their playoff run. 

Man the Colts as much as I was suprised that Manning didn't break the record, where did that defense come from. Front line pressure. I mean Freeney has always been good, rookie pro bowler. But everyone else stepped up to safety's comin up to make hits, good coverage by the linebackers. And what class by the colts to not gun for a TD in the redzone towards the end. 

Colts chargers prediction. Colts 38 Chargers 23 

Merry Christmas Everyone..


The Seraph of Earth and Stone


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 21, 2004)

Barak said:
			
		

> The last week of the season best game should be Pitt against Buffalo.  Pittsburgh is playing crazy football this year, but Buffalo is on a great streak.  Chances are very good Buffalo will be playing for a playoff spot, and the game will be in Buffalo.  This late in the season, chances are good it'll be in a snowstorm.  And no team plays in the snow as well as Buffalo.  Too bad it isn't against Miami..  At least Pittsburgh is used to the cold..





Let's see, who plays in the snow at least as well if not better than Buffalo?

New England? Check there.

Green Bay? They invented playing in the snow.

Oh, and Pittsburgh? You better believe it. 

Heinz Field, and Three Rivers before it, were places a lot of teams hate to go late in the year because it is cold and usually snowy. Pittsburgh has a power back, a strong quarterback who makes smart choices and receivers with great hands. They have blistering lines on both sides of the ball and one of the best linebacking cores anywhere. Pittsburgh is built to play in the snow.


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## Crothian (Dec 21, 2004)

Stone Angel said:
			
		

> Man the Colts as much as I was suprised that Manning didn't break the record, where did that defense come from.




A lot of deefenses look good against the Ravens Offense


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## DaveStebbins (Dec 22, 2004)

Barak said:
			
		

> Chances are very good Buffalo will be playing for a playoff spot, and the game will be in Buffalo.



Buffalo still needs lots of help. Baltimore, Jacksonville and Denver each need to lose another game (of their final two), while Buffalo needs to win out. As happy as I am with the way they've turned their season around, I'm afraid they're still a long shot. When they gave up leads late in the fourth quarter in three of their first four games (all losses), I knew those would come back to haunt them.


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## Dimwhit (Dec 22, 2004)

Well, Baltimore still has to travel to Pittsburg and Denver has Indianapolis. The Jags, though, are in good position. They have Houston and Oakland left. Houston is the best shot. So it will be tough for the Bills, but not impossible.

It's too bad, because I really think they can beat any team in the AFC (or NFC for that matter) the way they are playing right now.


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## Darthjaye (Dec 22, 2004)

drothgery said:
			
		

> Hmm... at 14-2, the Pats can only tie with the Steelers.
> 
> At 13-3, the Pats could tie with the Chargers or Colts (but not both), and/or the Steelers. They win a two-way tie with the Colts, and lose to the Steelers, based on head-to-head.
> 
> ...




Actually this is not entirely correct.  All three teams have dropped at least one game in their division already (the Pats to the Dolphins, The Steelers to the Ravens, and the Chargers to the Chiefs).  All play one more time in their own division so these would be the games we will be basing on who wins what.  And actually if the Pats and Chargers both end at 12-4 it will be the Pats who get the better seeding over the Chargers as they will have lost 4 in conference vs 3 by the Pats.


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## drothgery (Dec 22, 2004)

Darthjaye said:
			
		

> Actually this is not entirely correct.  All three teams have dropped at least one game in their division already (the Pats to the Dolphins, The Steelers to the Ravens, and the Chargers to the Chiefs).  All play one more time in their own division so these would be the games we will be basing on who wins what.  And actually if the Pats and Chargers both end at 12-4 it will be the Pats who get the better seeding over the Chargers as they will have lost 4 in conference vs 3 by the Pats.




Yes it is. The Chargers are currently 11-3 overall and 8-2 in confrence (they lost to Houston, Denver, and Atlanta; Atlanta's in the NFC) with two conference games left (Indy and KC). No matter who they lose to in order to be 12-4, they'll be 9-3 in conference (one more win, one more loss). The Pats are 12-2 overall and 9-2 in conference with one conference game left. They need to lose both of their remaining games to get to 12-4, and one of them is a conference game (they play the Jets and 49ers), so they'll end up at 9-3 in conference. The Pats and Chargers didn't play each other, and have fewer than 4 common opponents, hence a tie between them devolves to Strength of Victory (which I understand is point differential). Currently New England has a 17 point advantage there, but that's easy to make up in two games.


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## DaveStebbins (Dec 23, 2004)

Dimwhit said:
			
		

> Well, Baltimore still has to travel to Pittsburg and Denver has Indianapolis. The Jags, though, are in good position. They have Houston and Oakland left. Houston is the best shot. So it will be tough for the Bills, but not impossible.



Yeah, and if Pittsburgh beats Baltimore this week, or New England loses to the Jets, Pittsburgh will go into Buffalo already having sewn up home field advantage, so they might sit a bunch of starters. I'm hopeful for Buffalo, but don't think it is likely.



			
				Dimwhit said:
			
		

> It's too bad, because I really think they can beat any team in the AFC (or NFC for that matter) the way they are playing right now.



Yeah, the defense and special teams are playing great, and the offense isn't making too many mistakes. I think they can give anyone a good game, but getting to the Super Bowl seems even less likely than getting into the playoffs. And, once they get to the Super Bowl, well I don't even want to think about what would happen there (though I think it might be an easier game than any of the road games they'd have to win to get there).


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## Crothian (Dec 23, 2004)

The Bills are playing really good ball, but I just don't think the Jags will be losing either of their last two games.  They win and they are in.


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## Captain Tagon (Dec 23, 2004)

DaveStebbins said:
			
		

> Yeah, the defense and special teams are playing great, and the offense isn't making too many mistakes. I think they can give anyone a good game, but getting to the Super Bowl seems even less likely than getting into the playoffs. And, once they get to the Super Bowl, well I don't even want to think about what would happen there (though I think it might be an easier game than any of the road games they'd have to win to get there).





I don't know. I really don't think any NFC team, even Philly or Atlanta, is really playing at the level to match a team that wins out in the strong AFC race.


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## Crothian (Dec 23, 2004)

Ya, but the AFC teams that survives could be pretty beat up while an NFC team might sail through with little problems.......in the Super Bowl anything can happen....Denver upset the mighty Packers and the Pats upset the mighty Rams...


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## ph34r (Dec 23, 2004)

Crothian said:
			
		

> ...in the Super Bowl anything can happen....the Pats upset the mighty Rams...




 I feel a little better now.


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## Dimwhit (Dec 24, 2004)

Man, did you all see that monster deal Vick signed with the Falcons? As a Falcon fan, I'm excited. It's been a long time since they've had a franchise QB (back in the Bartkowski days). I know a lot of people think Vick sucks, and his numbers certainly aren't great. But here's a good number: 24-12-1. That's how the team does when Vick starts a game. And he's exciting to watch. And he'll only get better. Granted, the odds of him lasting the whole contract without a career-ending injury are slim, but they're still getting a deal, IMO.


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## Crothian (Dec 24, 2004)

Ya, that's some huge money.....hopefully they left some over tyo resign those good defensive players.....


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## Crothian (Dec 25, 2004)

well, the Packers claim the NFC North...still 3 playoff spaces up for grabs there.

2 fun games later today, should be scoring in both.


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