# Help me build a tank!



## Stumblewyk (Sep 20, 2011)

So, my group is starting up a new game, and the DM is going to be running the _Serpent's Skull_ AP.  The group contains a number of RPG newbies who have their hearts set on playing specific classes, and then myself and one other guy with a lot of RPG/Pathfinder experience.

It's going to be a very "newbie friendly" game, so we're going to be helping the new people get the hang of their classes and roles.  So far we've got a human Sorcerer, a human Rogue, a human Alchemist, and the other rules-savvy guy is playing a human Cleric.

Human isn't a requirement, it's just kind of shaken out that way for everyone else.  What I'm looking at is playing the tank.  None of the newbies wanted to take on the meat-shield role, and none of them wanted to play the heal-bot, so we've split those two roles up between us.

I like the idea of playing the tank, but I want to do it with style.  I'm used to playing spellcasters, so this is kind of new territory for me.  What I'd like to put together is a fighter/paladin/barbarian that's got a little flair.

Are there any good, goofy, kinda out-their builds for these classes?  I'm open to checking out anything.


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## Systole (Sep 20, 2011)

Barbarian doesn't really help with tanking, given that their trademark ability decreases AC.  Plus, you can't actually make a barbarian/paladin since barbarians can't be lawful.

If you want a tank with flair, you could try for the flail-and-shield DWer.  Basically, you just keeping tripping with the flail and shield bashing with a free bull rush.  Your newbies will love you since you're feeding them AoOs, and you can also set up the battlefield to make life easy for them.*

Alternatively, if you want a holy tank, paladins and inquisitors both work pretty well.  Speaking as a GM, I can say that inquisitors are a royal pain in butt to kill if they're played right.



*One of the hallmarks of a great pool player is the ability to leave the cue ball in a perfect position for the next shot.  There's a story that says some goober went and watched Minnesota Fats run the table for like an hour, and then said, "I don't see why everyone thinks he's such an great player.  The guy never had a tough shot all day!"  Similarly, if you feed your newbies a bunch of prone enemies, you'll get to watch them say, "Man, this fighting stuff is EASY!" while laughing quietly to yourself.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 20, 2011)

Paladin is the best class at pure tanking, but when they're not smiting their damage is mediocre and IMO the class is kinda boring in combat.

I'd do Dwarf Inquisitor, starting at level 1 in a full BAB class so you can have Power Attack.  Fighter works fine.  If you treally want to be the tough guy, there's an archetype in UC (Unbreakable) that trades the level 1 bonus feat for Endurance and Diehard.  So you'd be Fighter 1 / Inquisitor X.  Primary stats being str, con, and wis.


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## Stumblewyk (Sep 20, 2011)

Sorry, I should have been clearer in my OP.  I didn't mean to imply that I was looking a multiclass combo of Fighter, Barbarian, and/or Paladin.  (And I guess I *should* have included Cavalier in there as well.)  I just meant that I was looking at those classes to build my meat-shield character.

Regardless, thanks for the input.  I'm sure I could come up with a story or thematic hook for a flail-wielding fighter.

Not too crazy about the Inquisitor route.  Unless it offers an obvious advantage, but this is going to be a pretty relaxed game.  Optimization isn't exactly necessary, so I'd like to have some fun and possibly do something off the wall with my character.


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## paradox42 (Sep 20, 2011)

Depending on your precise definition of "tank," you might consider Stream's dual-shield wielding Ranger build. It certainly has flair!


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 20, 2011)

I still need to try that, I really want to.  Still, without stuff to sacrifice your shield bonus to AC (which was the original point of having 2 shields on my original bodyguard concept, aside from how iconic it felt/looked for someone dedicated to protecting others has just shields), it feels a little empty.  The 3E concept was a tank, but also had abilities to apply his tankiness to others.  There is no such option in PF, even with the release of Ultimate Combat.


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## wolff96 (Sep 20, 2011)

Systole said:


> Barbarian doesn't really help with tanking, given that their trademark ability decreases AC.  Plus, you can't actually make a barbarian/paladin since barbarians can't be lawful.




While I agree on the whole Barbarian/Paladin thing, you can actually make surprisingly good Barbarian tanks.

"Guarded Stance" is a rage power that lowers the AC penalty from Rage -- and eventually gives a bonus when raging.  At 6th level, raging doesn't affect your AC.  By 18th level, you actually *gain* 2 AC when raging.

You didn't mention which sources your DM allows, but Ultimate Combat has two archetypes that work well for the tank: Armored Hulk and the Urban Barbarian.

Armored Hulk lets you move faster than normal in heavy armor (and grants the proficiency).  Urban Barbarian has a slightly weaker rage, but lets you choose where the points go when you Rage.  An Urban Barbarian who puts all of those points into dexterity wouldn't be your standard buff bruiser, but would have a really high AC.  Especially since Urban Rage doesn't actually penalize your AC.  

Finally -- though it takes the longest to get going -- a "Savage Barbarian" gives up all armor (but not shields).  In return, they gain dodge and natural armor bonuses to AC.  Combine that with a shield, Guarded Stance, and a wizard who drops the occasional _Mage Armor_ on your character and you have a rather sturdy tank that can still deal quite a bit of damage when necessary!


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## Stumblewyk (Sep 20, 2011)

My DM is pretty open to sources, it just has to be PF.  So, no D&D 3.5 stuff, 3rd party material, etc.

That being said, turns out the 1st game session got moved up, and my character which I thought would be "due" next weekend, now needs to be ready by Friday.  As such, I've started tinkering with the flail-and-shield fighter idea mentioned by [MENTION=93930]Systole[/MENTION].  I think I'm going to go with it.  I can enjoy myself knocking guys down left and right and punishing them for trying to get back up.


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## Systole (Sep 20, 2011)

wolff96 said:


> While I agree on the whole Barbarian/Paladin thing, you can actually make surprisingly good Barbarian tanks.




I missed the Urban Barbarian and Guarded Stance, but I did know about Armored Hulk.  In my opinion, Armored Hulk is really not a fantastic template.  It's basically a vanilla fighter, except that it trades weapon specialization and a bunch of feats for rage.  I'd rather have the feats.


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## StreamOfTheSky (Sep 20, 2011)

Armored Hulk is bad.

One interesting way to make a Barb tank, though it sadly requires human, is using the Superstition and Ghost Rager rage powers for lots of save bonus and touch AC.  Why Human?  They can use favored class bonus for +1/3 to the supersitious bonus, which helps to bring it up:

"Barbarian: Add a +1/2 bonus to trap sense or +1/3 to the bonus from the superstitious rage power."

So by level 6 when you get Ghost Rager, you would have a +5 saves and touch AC bonus.  Not shabby, though you'd need to ask the DM about superstition save bonus stacking with Rage's will save bonus, cause Paizo is incompetent and made an ability you can only use while gaining a morale bonus to will saves (ie, raging)...give you a morale bonus to saves....  Brilliant!


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## wolff96 (Sep 21, 2011)

Systole, StreamOfTheSky --  You'll not find me disagreeing on the quality of Armored Hulk compared to the other options.

Still, not all groups optimize to the same degree (I often make sub-optimal choices not to outshine the other players at my table, who don't spend as much time with the system as I do.)  I was merely pointing out the option.

Besides, even if it *is* a fighter with Rage instead of other options, it does have a few  other advantages for tanking -- d12 HD, extra HP from Rage, Raging Vitality (for even MORE HP), and Rage Powers that can heal/remove/ignore damage, ability score penalties, and negative levels.

If you want to build a tank as someone that can survive virtually anything the DM can throw at the party, Barbarian really isn't a bad way to go -- you just have to accept that you're using *lots* of Rage Powers and feats on things like Regenerative Vigor instead of doing more damage.

Dang...  Now I have to actually put one together and see what he looks like at higher levels.


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## Dingo333 (Sep 21, 2011)

There is another option I am exploring atm.

A Staff magus can get a really high AC quite quickly and still do decent damage.

At 7th level, you lose the ability you would have gotten (to wear medium armor and still cast spells) and gain a "shield" bonus to your ac = to the enhancement bonus on your quarter staff.

That includes the bonus from your arcane pool. My character has +2 studded leather, 20 Dex (Elf) +1 ring of protection, +1 amulet of natural armor and a +2 quarterstaff. Adding in Combat expertise (-2 att, +2 dodge AC) and arcane pool I have an AC of 28 at level 7. I am also going for tripping and have a +14 to trip (improved and greater, maneuver mastery Trip, 16 Str) Add +6 for the staff and -2 for combat expertise at level 9 and he is a tripping fiend

In your OP you said you like spell casters, this is another option in lines you are more familiar with


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## acorania (Sep 22, 2011)

I have been thinking it might be fun to run a Summoner as the tank (that is, your eidelon would be doing the tanking). You can definitely get your AC through the roof with those little guys. And if you are used to running casters you aren't far from home either.


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