# The Origin of the Gnoll (again)



## Andrew D. Gable (Mar 10, 2003)

Something that's been bothering me: all these other sources that use gnolls.  There's a Mage Knight gnoll figure, there's miniatures, gnolls are in practically every video game... now I seriously doubt all those people are going to pay royalties to DnD.  I mean, how hard is it to create a doggish humanoid and just give it a differnet name?  All of which implies to me that there has to be some folkloric, or similarly public domain, derivation of the term and creature.  Danged if I can figure what it is, though.


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## jonesy (Mar 10, 2003)

I faintly remember it having something to do with
celtic folklore, but can't find the reference anymore.


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## Skade (Mar 10, 2003)

No reference to hyenas in African myths?  Were hyenas able to mimic voices, and maybe take shapes?  Were there half hyena figures?  I have no clue, simply conjecture.


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## hellbender (Mar 10, 2003)

Some say, Lord Dunsany, as there are muderous creatures called 'gnoles' in the following:

http://www.sff.net/people/DoyleMacdonald/d_nuth.htm


hellbender


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## jester47 (Mar 10, 2003)

Ah yes I remember now someone said it was a short passing reference in Lord Dunsany's works.  

Aaron.


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## mistergone (Mar 10, 2003)

Not so interesting piece of trivia that had no bearing on anyone's life... I don't have gnolls in my campaign world. I figured, a long time ago, that since Dragonlance didn't have orcs, I would cut out gnolls. That's pretty much my sole reasoning. Net effect on my game world? None. Importance? None. Just thought I'd share.


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## Gez (Mar 10, 2003)

hellbender said:
			
		

> *Some say, Lord Dunsany, as there are muderous creatures called 'gnoles' in the following*




While we're on useless trivia, "gnole" is French slang for cheap, low-quality, wine.

But usually, excessive consumption of gnole makes you see pink winged elephants, not hyenae-men.


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## diaglo (Mar 10, 2003)

jester47 said:
			
		

> *Ah yes I remember now someone said it was a short passing reference in Lord Dunsany's works.
> 
> Aaron. *




and you will find the works of several authors referenced in the 1ed books. Lord Dunsany being one of them.

well not really referenced. but suggested reading.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Okay!

Here's the story:

I made up "gnoll" thinking of it as a cross between a gnome and a troll, and I think the name first appeared in a really bad novel I was writing, The Gnome Cache, part of which was serialized in DRAGON Magazine way back when.

I wanted to expand the humanoids list to match PC levels, so I altered the gnoll to fit into that list after hobgoblin and before bugbear.

The name is not drawn from any mythology, folklore, or authored work of fiction--although Dunsany's "gnole" is close.  The description and stats are unique.  IMO WotC could indeed claim it as unique to them.

Cheers,
Gary


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## alsih2o (Mar 10, 2003)

ain't it nice having THE SOURCE around?


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## Aeolius (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> * I made up "gnoll" thinking of it as a cross between a gnome and a troll... *




Which further muddies my gnorts (gnoll-troll crossbreed)


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Which further muddies my gnorts (gnoll-troll crossbreed)   *




Speaking of which, I never did publish the description and stats for a "thoul"...a troll-ghoul.  It was listed as an encounter in the first edition of D&D, but thereafter it sort of got lost.  Recently someone was asking, and I sound my notes on the critter, gave them the synopsis.

What a fun and nasty beastie the thoul is!

Cheers,
Gary


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## alsih2o (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Recently someone was asking, and I sound my notes on the critter, gave them the synopsis.
> 
> ...




 let us in! post them here for enworld goodness! please!


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## megamania (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *Okay!
> 
> Here's the story:
> 
> ...




Good to know but takes the fun out of it.  Kinda like learning there was no Santa, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy....


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

*Thoul*

Okay, happy to share

Note I changed the name to tr'oul (ter-OOL), as I thought "thoul" was too ordinary...

Tr’oul
4+2 HD
AC 6
Regenerate 1 HP/round
Not harmed by holy water.
Sunlight harms at 1 HP/round, not regenerated, healed at 1/day

Paralyze by touch, one such attack per new opponent--success 21-40 rounds of paralysis.
Turn as ghasts +1
Damage 2 x 2d4 for claws


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## Aeolius (Mar 10, 2003)

All this talk of hybrids has me thinking. Green Ronin is coming out with "Bastards & Bloodlines", while Mongoose Publishing's "Encyclopaedia Arcane: Crossbreeding" is in the works. As crossbreeding beasties is somewhat a hobby of mine, I'll be taking a gander at both.

   I suppose I'll take another look at my trogres, a troll-ogre crossbreed, in particular the aquatic kresh, offspring of a marine merrow and scrag. Add to that the bakaruda (a koalinth/sahuagin hybrid), my half-krakens (the sykraken and krakidan), and the opinaku (children of sea elves and weresharks).

   It goes without saying that my Night Hag Family Tree is chock full o' hybrids. No gnomes in there, just yet, though I did make the dark creeper a night hag/derro crossbreed. A night hag and svirfneblin... hrmmm.....


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## Gez (Mar 10, 2003)

Here's what the CC crew made of the Thoul: 

But they tied the beasts to hobgoblins, rather than trolls and ghouls... 



> Arcane experimentation by hobgoblin loremasters ages ago produced the bizarre hybrid race known as the thouls. It is assumed that the loremasters wanted to create a race of bodyguards that had the discipline of a hobgolin, the power and regenerative properties of a troll, and the paralyzing touch of a ghoul. What they got instead was a pitiful, pained creature that, although quite capable of filling the role of bodyguard, was nowhere near as powerful as the hobgoblin kings had hoped.
> 
> From a distance of greater than 10 feet a thoul closely resembles a hobgoblin; it takes a Spot check (DC 15) or previous experience with hobgoblins to tell the difference. A thoul’s skin is slightly greener and lumpier than that of a hobgoblin, and its nose is long and hooked—no doubt these features are holdovers from its trollish aspects. The eyes of a thoul have no pupils, giving them a stare that is most disconcerting to those not accustomed to them.
> Thouls have no language of their own, and speak Goblin.
> ...


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## Aeolius (Mar 10, 2003)

megamania said:
			
		

> * Good to know but takes the fun out of it.  Kinda like learning there was no Santa, Easter Bunny or Tooth Fairy.... *




   A powerful fey who lives upon a cloud, in a castle made of children's teeth...now THAT'S an adventure!


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## alsih2o (Mar 10, 2003)

*Re: Thoul*



			
				Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *Okay, happy to share
> 
> *




 thanks so much


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Likely I should have added this:

A few months back I was DMing for a group that wanted to explore the original Greyhawk Castle dungeons.  They got lost and ended up on "The Crypts" level.  There they met and dealt pretty handily with some ghouls, but then the tr'ouls nearby entered the fray.  Both their cleric and mage failed their saves vs. paralysis, and thus the denizens of the place were soon feasting on fresh adventurers...saving the largest which they set aside to properly age 

Cheers,
Gary


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## Aeolius (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> * There they met and dealt with some ghouls pretty handily, but then the tr'ouls nearby entered the fray. *




What do you call a gathering of lacedon?
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
a flock of sea ghouls!      (sorry...had to!)


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Heh!

Never met a pun I didn't like.  The worse the better 

Cheers,
Gary


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## megamania (Mar 10, 2003)

boooo...hisssss....that was aweful!


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

megamania said:
			
		

> *boooo...hisssss....that was aweful! *




Music to a punsters ears!   

Heh,
Gary


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## Aeolius (Mar 10, 2003)

megamania said:
			
		

> *boooo...hisssss....that was aweful! *




   I have worse   

   I have several unique fish in my undersea campaign. Among them are the psionic migraine haddock, the algae-covered hair triggerfish, the hybrid quipper-snapper, and the fiendish fish, Styx. Other psionic undersea denizens include the limpet minds and ectoplankton. Dare I mention those insects native to the plane of time; the time flies and forget-me gnats? Shall I discuss either that most unusual of autumn delicacies, the Brunswick ooze, or the insidious plantlike weapon of the xvarts, the xvart blossom?

   I thought not.  

   Wasn't this thread about the gnome, I'll-ask-ya?


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## Sniktch (Mar 10, 2003)

Aeolius. you've been reading too much Piers Anthony


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## The Sigil (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Speaking of which, I never did publish the description and stats for a "thoul"...a troll-ghoul.  It was listed as an encounter in the first edition of D&D, but thereafter it sort of got lost.  Recently someone was asking, and I sound my notes on the critter, gave them the synopsis.
> 
> ...



Interesting... as I recall, the thoul made an appearance in the Basic Set of D&D (boxed sets)... at least it was in the '83 version I was first exposed to.  It was described as a cross of hobgoblin, troll, and ghoul.  I wonder if they "Derived" that from your work?

The description of the thoul from the Tome of Horrors appears to be the update of the description from the D&D Basic set.

Thouls have LONG been a favorite critter of mine. 

--The Sigil


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## Gez (Mar 10, 2003)

Sea Ghoul, OK, but others are hard.

*Among them are the psionic migraine haddock,* ?
*the algae-covered hair triggerfish,* I think I get it
* the hybrid quipper-snapper,* OK
* and the fiendish fish, Styx.* fish-sticks ?
*Other psionic undersea denizens include the limpet minds* limpet mines ?
*and ectoplankton.* ?
*Dare I mention those insects native to the plane of time; the time flies* OK
*and forget-me gnats?* OK too.
*Shall I discuss either that most unusual of autumn delicacies, the Brunswick ooze,* ?
*or the insidious plantlike weapon of the xvarts, the xvart blossom?* ??

*Wasn't this thread about the gnome, I'll-ask-ya? *

Hmm. Enclature. Inal. Inator.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I have worse
> 
> ...




Aeolius,

All I can say is you're a man after my own heart.  someone on another thread brought up my LA game enchantments "Elephant of Surprise" and "Element of Surmise."  

Cheers,
Gary


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Wasn't this thread about the gnome, I'll-ask-ya? *





Alas, it has turned into a Gnome-an's Land...


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

MerakSpielman said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> Alas, it has turned into a Gnome-an's Land... *




Actually, I think that's a mis-gnomer 

Gary


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## Henry (Mar 10, 2003)

I never would have predicted that this thread would have gone bad in a Gnome-ent's notice...

...Of course, I should have Gnome better than that!


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

You should have seen it coming, Henry. As predictible as a metra-gnome.

OK, I was stretching for that one.


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

(From our current game)

The halfling-bard's method of performance is Stand-Up comedy.
My halfling-paladin said that he didn't think (something) was funny.

The bard says, "Don't worry, with a bit of time I'll turn you into a laugh-ling!"

[/true story]


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Henry said:
			
		

> *I never would have predicted that this thread would have gone bad in a Gnome-ent's notice...
> 
> ...Of course, I should have Gnome better than that! *




Henry, your post dwarfs the others in bad punnery  I must remind mysylph to be more spritely in my own.  I see noy by the sundial's gnomen that's it's time to have my lunch...

Cheers,
Gary


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

And then there's the one about the Druid and his half-orchid cohort....


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

If this punning doesn't stop, this thread will soon be a gnome-man's land!

Gary


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## Henry (Mar 10, 2003)

OH! And the Master takes a penalty for using a previously used pun! 

A Gnomentary lapse due to hunger, I suppose?

Yes, perhaps we should cease such tom-thoul-ery!


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

Not one for elf-PUNishment, eh?


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

"And be warned, noble adventurers, that there have been ruthless pundits seen roaming these boards..."


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## fett527 (Mar 10, 2003)

*I love this site!!!*


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## jester47 (Mar 10, 2003)

Jester47's quick 3E Thoul recipie.  

2 Flavors:

Original Gygax:

Take one troll.  Add Ghoul template.  Bake.

D&D colored box:

FInd half troll template: set with hobgoblin.  Add Ghoul Template, Bake. 

Caution: 3E thouls might be more dangerous than previous versions.  

Aaron.


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## RigaMortus (Mar 10, 2003)

You guys are showing GNOMERCY here.


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

don't be *thoulish*!

go sit on your *thoul* in the *coroner*, young man!


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

Yeep!

I missed the earlier post using the no-man's-land theme.  Blast

That leaves me out in the kobold for for claiming any honors, and likely open to PUNative damages, eh?

"Lord, this is like liquor. Once you get started on it it's hard to stop." Gary added ryely.

So, Tom Swifties anyone?

J/K.  I really do have work to do 

Gary


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## Dr. Zoom (Mar 10, 2003)

Please, gnome-or.


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## jester47 (Mar 10, 2003)

Metro-Gnomes:  Gnomes who have forsaken the countryside to live in large urban environments.  Have an affinity for musicians.

Aaron.


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## Gez (Mar 10, 2003)

Why stop ? We should koboldly continue our study of gnolls, whether grassy or not, and their G-gnome, and their lack of personal highyenea.

The dog may bark, but the...

(black knight voice Gnome. Shall. Pass.


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

I've been studying puns since elemental school! Of couse, I had to do it illithidly, since I would have gotten in a gnoll bunch of tribble if I was caught.

Of course, my discipline has been wyvern slightly of late...


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

So now we're dragon in the whole of monsterdom, and some of you think that rocs, eh?  Well, you won't roper me into posting more such dreadful puns!

This time I am serious when I say I have to get to work.

Gary


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *So now we're dragon in the whole of monsterdom, and some of you think that rocs, eh?  Well, you won't roper me into posting more such dreadful puns!
> 
> This time I am serious when I say I have to get to work.
> 
> Gary *




Uh huh. Sure.

You were lost the gnoment you agreed to post in the "interview gary" threads. Gnow look at you, as addicted as the rest of us.


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## Andrew D. Gable (Mar 10, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *I made up "gnoll" thinking of it as a cross between a gnome and a troll*




Wow.  I think I heard this somewhere, but I don't recall where (was it in the Red Box of OD&D?).  Nice to see my guess wasn't far off the mark.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 10, 2003)

MerakSpielman said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Uh huh. Sure.
> 
> You were lost the gnoment you agreed to post in the "interview gary" threads. Gnow look at you, as addicted as the rest of us. *




These are really great boards, I agree.  Fact is I don't usually start checking the threads, as I get drawn in too easily.  right now I should be plotting the adventure of an "old school" module that's been requested, but that's like work, dude 

Heh,
Gary


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## Clay_More (Mar 10, 2003)

The worst "punnish" comment I ever made in a game was when the players had gotten attacked by horrible, brain stealing zombies. The highly intelligent wizard had his brain eaten, but was ressurected later. Unfortunately, this left him severaly deprived on intelligence, so they sought the Zombie that had eaten his brain to get it back. Again, unfortunately, the Zombie gains intelligence from doing so. The players finally enter the old tomb where they last saw the zombies. Instead of a musty old tomb, there's a study with a large, roaring fireplace. Behind a mahogny desk sits the zombie, now dressed in a red Nightgown. As the players enter, the zombie says (in a scottish accent)....

"Sooo... we met again"


Intelligent readers might notice an obvious lack of Gnomes in this entire story... well im Danish, thats us in a nutshell, hardly ever make sense... One thing I still find a bit odd about D&D, is that supposedly Haflings live in "Grassy Gnolls"....

Perhaps its a good way of getting more Gary-authentic threads, by having subjects that you simply cannot help but to respond to. Its nice to see that you do give a Kobolds nosehair about us... sob sob...


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## WanderingMonster (Mar 10, 2003)

RigaMortus said:
			
		

> *You guys are showing GNOMERCY here. *




Personally, I'm a ghast that someone might disapprove of the puns!  It's a harmless destrachan.  It doesn't take osyluth to detect that wereboar'd and just need to have some fun.

Of course, maybe the thread was started to stirge up some trouble.  In which case we should all feel tendriculos.

That's my two centaurs.


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## RigaMortus (Mar 11, 2003)

I don't mean to be druid, but to call this a pun would be a misgnomer.

Heh, I hope I don't get bard from this (ethereal) forum for making such bad puns


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 11, 2003)

"Bad puns" is redundant.

*bwong!* you are forgiven, RigaMortus. Keep them punning.


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## Ashwyn (Mar 11, 2003)

If I had gnome this thread was going to turn into a punfest, I would have posted mohrg. Why? I love puns. There, I said it. Phew, feels good to be out of the quasit.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 11, 2003)

Clay_More said:
			
		

> *
> 
> [snippage]
> 
> Perhaps its a good way of getting more Gary-authentic threads, by having subjects that you simply cannot help but to respond to. Its nice to see that you do give a Kobolds nosehair about us... sob sob... *




Hold on there.  Don't get carried away.  Maybe a kobold's ear hair, but not a whole nose hair!


Gary


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 11, 2003)

WanderingMonster.

A tip of the hat to you

Cheers,
Gary


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## Voadam (Mar 11, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *Okay!
> 
> Here's the story:
> 
> ...




So how did they become half hyena men?


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## MerakSpielman (Mar 11, 2003)

and why don't they regenerate?


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 11, 2003)

Well, Buckaroos!

As I said in regards to the gnoll, I changed course, made them into one of the humanoids.  Hyeana-like visages seemed appropriate for that role, and of course in their lowly slot between the hobgoblin and the bygbear in potency, regenaration was quite out of the question.

Hope that covers my thinking on the matter, and remember making up all sorts of monsters for a game isn't always an easy task 

Cheers,
Gary


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## Bran Blackbyrd (Mar 11, 2003)

WanderingMonster said:
			
		

> *
> 
> Personally, I'm a ghast that someone might disapprove of the puns!  It's a harmless destrachan.  It doesn't take osyluth to detect that wereboar'd and just need to have some fun.
> 
> ...




OMG! 
ROFL!
IYKWIMAITYD.

I think it's ghoul that you came up with so many puns.
If I had a chimera I'd take a picture. It's a bodak moment!


I've always liked gnolls. They figure rather prominently as a force of change in the landscape of my campaign world. They drove into extinction one of the two races that spawned them (one canine, one feline), and are at war with the other. That's not even taking into consideration the way they treat the rest of the races when they meet.


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## Aeolius (Mar 11, 2003)

Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *... and remember making up all sorts of monsters for a game isn't always an easy task... *




   I hear you, loud and clear. My "Aeo Originals" list is up to around 225 beasties, or so, 102 of which are aquatic. When the revised 3e MM comes out, I'll start adding stats to their descriptions.

   Out of curiosity, where did the ixitxachitl come from?  

   (Yes, I keep up with seafaring supplements like gnomebody else I know.)


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 11, 2003)

Aeolius said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I hear you, loud and clear. My "Aeo Originals" list is up to around 225 beasties, or so, 102 of which are aquatic. When the revised 3e MM comes out, I'll start adding stats to their descriptions.*




The first half of a large bestiary comes pretty easily, but thereafter it's slow and demanding work.

I find the best new additions come from creating adventure material in which a special critter or two are needed to punch things up



> * Out of curiosity, where did the ixitxachitl come from?   *




Steve Marsh was the creator of that beastie.  He told me he got the name , Ixitxachitl, from an historical list of names of people!  He couldn't resist using it for a monster.



> *   (Yes, I keep up with seafaring supplements like gnomebody else I know.) *




Strange but true, the nickname of the fellow who is developing seafaring material for a book in the "Gygaxian Fantasy Worlds" series from Troll Lord games is "SpaceGnome" 

Cheers,
Gary


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## fusangite (Mar 12, 2003)

It's an honour to be part of an online community that includes the august creator of D&D. Just a quick note to commend you Gary on your creation of the Gnoll; I'm currently running a campaign in an African setting and thus, Gnolls are the main race of evil demi-humans. 

The hyena is such a great animal to base a demihuman race on that it's provided me with many many possibilities. The Gnolls of my world also inspired me to place were-hyenas and evil hyena-based druids in a very prominent role, the hyena nicely substituting for the wolf and suggesting a different set of lycanthropic attributes than the were-wolf does. 

Anyway, I suppose this post doesn't mean a whole lot; I just wanted to state this little thank-you to go along with the gigantic and obvious thank-you for D&D itself.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 12, 2003)

Hi Fusangite

When I was a tad I used to go to the Lincoln Park Zoo in Chicago, and the hyenas there were as fascinating to me in a repellant way as were the lions in an awesome one.  Recalling the bad odor of the former is easy now even after decades...

Anyway, I appreciate your good words, and I do think hyenas make an excellent template for creating evil creatures.  Certain animals lend themselves to that role--spiders, scorpions, octopi and squid, alligators and crocodiles, weasels and wolverines, etc.  Likely most of that basis is humanocentric and even individual, but what the heck!  If it works, go for it 

Cheers,
Gary


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## Gez (Mar 12, 2003)

fusangite said:
			
		

> *It's an honour to be part of an online community that includes the august creator of D&D.*





I can't resist telling you you would ban the august creator of D&D from your group if he wanted to show up.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 12, 2003)

Gez said:
			
		

> *
> 
> 
> I can't resist telling you you would ban the august creator of D&D from your group if he wanted to show up.  *




As a GM I will sometimes not allow a particular sort of character to be played when a newbie is joining the group.  however, I do allow pretty much of anything in the way of characters otherwise.  Hell, I even allow females to play--male characters if they so desire.

BTW, my LA game Avatar is not only a female but she is a Veshoge--a race in the game that is not much respected or loved, sort of like the Ferengi (sp?) in Star Trek.

Whatever is fun for all concerned should be all right in a game, and the GM should be open-minded while looking at the long-range viability of the campaign

Gary


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## Clay_More (Mar 12, 2003)

Most people seem to think that only male players can be opportunistic and greedy. Actually, the most greedy player I ever had was female, a paladin on top of that. Once, when asked to assist a poor village, she was dissatisfied that they only could offer 200 gold pieces. The spokesman of the poor, peasant village said that it was all they had. She looked around coldly and replied: "Couldn't you just sell something?"

Anyways, seeing how law-suit happy people are these days, ever had problems with any of your monsters? I remember that Lego got sued lately because of their new line of toys were using names that were of Cultural significance to the Maori, ever tried that with a D&D critter?


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 12, 2003)

Clay_More said:
			
		

> *Most people seem to think that only male players can be opportunistic and greedy. Actually, the most greedy player I ever had was female, a paladin on top of that. Once, when asked to assist a poor village, she was dissatisfied that they only could offer 200 gold pieces. The spokesman of the poor, peasant village said that it was all they had. She looked around coldly and replied: "Couldn't you just sell something?"*




My female Veshoge Avatar is not of the same mold of most of her race.  She is not overly greedy, merely ambitious.  To meer her goal in life she needs to return home trailing glorious clouds of fame, with a fortune, and also a human husband of great repute--her Quirk is Humanophilia.  That explains why she loves to adventure with a party that is mostly of that race.



> *Anyways, seeing how law-suit happy people are these days, ever had problems with any of your monsters? I remember that Lego got sued lately because of their new line of toys were using names that were of Cultural significance to the Maori, ever tried that with a D&D critter? *




If that suit goes anywhere, I'll be astonished.  Public domain and First Amentment both seem to come into play in its defense.

To the point, no!  Nary a complaint about a monster's name

Cheers,
Gary


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## fusangite (Mar 13, 2003)

Gez says



> I can't resist telling you you would ban the august creator of D&D from your group if he wanted to show up.




In all likelihood, I'd be so overwhelmed to be in Gary's presence, I'd probably be too overwhelmed to run a game, be a lousy GM or maybe throw all my house rules out the window.  

On the other hand, I can't imagine there are that many gamers who would refuse to play a game because they weren't willing to adapt to the DM's particular house rules. I've never had a player who refused to be in my game because he couldn't accept any of my house rules.


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## mistergone (Mar 13, 2003)

Getting back to gnomes... er... gnolls... I DO remember reading somewhere, I'm thinking it was the red box Basic D&D (with the Elmore cover), but maybe it was the edition right before that, that gnolls were a cross between gnomes and trolls. I also remember thinking, "Why the Hell do they look like hyenas?" Well, I prolly thought "why the Heck..." I was like 11. Now this thread has enlightened me, and I find it fascinating. Ironically, I don't have gnolls at all in my current campaign world, but I think I mentioned that before. Anyways, this begs the question: Where did Flinds come from?


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## Gez (Mar 13, 2003)

In basic D&D (Mystara/Known World), the evil Nithian empire, roughly a grittier version of ancient egypt, made all sorts of funky magical stuff to obtain races of servitor.

"_1050 BC: Great wizards of the Nithians, inspired by the Immortal Pflarr's servant race (the Hutaakan), create the gnoll race by magically blending trolls and gnome. (GAZ 10)_"

"_1050 BC: Evil Nithian necromancers research a way of creating a servitor race resembling the Hutaakans by reincarnating gnomes using the blood of trolls. The entire Northern Reaches have been conquered in the attempt to get more specimen. After a few years the first hundred gnomes are turned into gnolls. (GAZ10)_"

Hutaakans are "_a haughty, callous race dominated by their priests. The tall, slender, humanoid Hutaakans have jackal-like heads but otherwise resemble ascetic humans with narrow hands and feet. Hutaakans often decorate or carve their heavy, clawlike nails to represent their rank and station in life. Even the most simple and unassuming of these creatures wears long, somber robes, with the occasional addition of a simple piece of jewelry. They speak in fluting, mellifluous tones using a complex language possessed of a haunting, musical quality._" (Mystara Monstrous Compendium Appendix.)

"_Another strange episode in humanoid history is the creation of gnolls. Gnolls were created from the bodies of trolls and gnomes, during atrocious and evil experiments by Nithian wizards. It appeared Nithians could create dozens of gnolls from one troll body and a pint of gnomish blood, through proper alchemic formulas. The entire Black Moons tribe was altered this way to become gnolls, and then spread out to become common humanoids._" GAZ10, the Orcs of Thar.

"_1050 BC: Odious experiments in Nithia turn Black Moon trolls into gnolls. Gnolls rebel; they escape and later invade Karameikos. Nithian priests visit the Shamans of Oenkmar. Atzanteotl is increasingly offended._" GAZ10, the Orcs of Thar.


Finally, the Flind appeared in the Fiend Folio, and are credited to someone called J.D. Morris. I found nothing about the Flind's origin, the FF just says that "they speak the tongue of gnolls; are on friendly terms with orcs, hobgoblins, bugbears, and ogres; but dislike trolls and won't cooperate with them". J.D. Morris is also credited for the Norkers, hobgoblins with tough skin ("a form of exoskeleton") and large 3" fangs.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 13, 2003)

fusangite said:
			
		

> *Gez says
> 
> In all likelihood, I'd be so overwhelmed to be in Gary's presence, I'd probably be too overwhelmed to run a game, be a lousy GM or maybe throw all my house rules out the window.  *




Heh, and I doubt it.  I look just like a typical gamer might, just a bit older and grizzled  Fact is I am not not a pushy sort, and generally laid back and easy to get on with unless provoked...  Because I am a fellow, I can pretty much relate to any group, and enjoy the company, so most everyone feels at home despite my presence 



> *On the other hand, I can't imagine there are that many gamers who would refuse to play a game because they weren't willing to adapt to the DM's particular house rules. I've never had a player who refused to be in my game because he couldn't accept any of my house rules. *




What?  I can't play a female character?  UNTHINKABLE. Oh, well, never mind, what can I play?

Heh,
Gary


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 13, 2003)

mistergone said:
			
		

> *Getting back to gnomes... er... gnolls... I DO remember reading somewhere, I'm thinking it was the red box Basic D&D (with the Elmore cover), but maybe it was the edition right before that, that gnolls were a cross between gnomes and trolls. I also remember thinking, "Why the Hell do they look like hyenas?" Well, I prolly thought "why the Heck..." I was like 11. Now this thread has enlightened me, and I find it fascinating. Ironically, I don't have gnolls at all in my current campaign world, but I think I mentioned that before. Anyways, this begs the question: Where did Flinds come from? *




Flinds came from the Fiend folio, so only the chap who originally created the critters for White Dwarf can answer that.  I didn't find them an objectionable addition to the humanoids' roster in my campaign, and added some now and again for variety.  Same with the other humanoids from the FF--norkers, orgillions, etc.

Cheers,
Gary


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## RigaMortus (Mar 13, 2003)

"People I Would Most Like To Game With At Least Once" List

Gary
Vin Diesel
Snoop Dogg (heh, why not?  I don't even think he games, but wouldn't that be funny if he showed up at the gaming table)

So Gary, do you higher yourself out to gaming groups by chance?  Ever think about auctioning yourself for a night of gaming on E-Bay?

"There's no race like Gnome" - Me


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## fusangite (Mar 13, 2003)

*Dog Men*

OK -- my celebrity worshipping instincts have now been brought under control.

On a related subject, I wanted to ask about Kobolds. Although my original Monster Manual is in storage, I recall the 1E Kobolds being dog-men; in 3E they appear to be lizard-men. Is my memory playing tricks on me? If not, why the change? 

The reason I am thinking about this right now is that I just finished reading a 9th century manuscript for school in which a theologian was being consulted about whether dog-men had souls. He was of the opinion that they did because they wore clothes, a clear sign that someone possesses a soul if ever there were one.

The document inspired me to involve some dog-men in one of the campaigns I'm running but I've been unable to find a readily-adaptable demi-human race -- it now appears that the closest one is the gnoll.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 13, 2003)

RigaMortus said:
			
		

> *"People I Would Most Like To Game With At Least Once" List
> 
> Gary
> Vin Diesel
> ...




Thanks for putting me on the top of the list, amigo Likely it's not deserved, as I can be as boring as any gamer on an off day.

When i heard back in the 80s that Prince Andrew played D&D with the Archbishop of york as his DM, I really wished I could sit in on one of those sessions  I don't know if the story is true or not, but it conjured images. Can you see the prince in regaliam with the archbishop in his vestmentssitting at the table rolling dice? 

Actually, I have "hired out" to run a three-day-long adventure for a group og D&Ders in California.  It took me over a full week to ready the material, so I don't want to do much of that sort of appearance even though it was a blast.  The group of eight  played well, and really enjoyed the adventure.  They managed to conclude with a success on Sunday night around eight o'clock.  We played in the room they rented for me in a Residence Inn, took breraks to eat, but otherwise played about four hours on Friday, and 10 hours a day on Saturday and Sunday.

Cheers,
Gary


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## RigaMortus (Mar 13, 2003)

Yeah, when I was in high school and on summer break and had no job or responsibility, my friends and I would play from morning til night, every day of the week.  I'd say around 12 to 14 hours a day.  One of my friends pretty much moved in for the duration of summer vacation, going home only to pick up more clothes 

Ahhhhh, those were the days.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

On a totally un-related note...

Another friend of mine, whom I didn't meet until my senior year in HS, told me that his mom threw away all his original DnD books because...  well I won't go into it.  Let's just say he grew up in a nice Christian family 

But as he got older, his mom got more accepting of his hobby and he continued to play Dnd as well as many other RPGs.  He got me into Rifts (I never knew there were other RPGs out there besides DnD at the time) and later he helped play test Magic: The Gathering.  So needless to say, he helped feed my M:tG addiction too, but I'm all better now.  Amazing what 12 step programs can do these days 

Sorry for the ramble, but you gnome how it is when work is dead.


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## Aeolius (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: Dog Men*



			
				fusangite said:
			
		

> * On a related subject, I wanted to ask about Kobolds. *




In the spirit of how we massacred the gnome...

what do you call a half-elemental (air) kobold? a blowbold

what do you call a half-elemental (water) kobold? a flowbold

what do you call an arctic kobold? a snowbold

what do you call a kobold with wings? a crowbold

what do you call a yeast golem fashioned in the shape of a kobold? a doughbold

what do you call a kobold with the ability to enlarge? a growbold

what do you call a kobold with the ability to reduce? a lowbold

what do you call a kobold who's not in a hurry? a slowbold

what do you call a bioluminescent kobold? a glowbold

what do you call a kobold with a high INT? a knowbold

what do you call an invisible kobold? a nobold

what do you call him when he reappears? a showbold

what do you call a kobold with oars? a rowbold

what do you call an artificial kobold? a fauxbold

what do you call a kobold on a string? a yoyobold

what do you call a kobold with a needle and thread? a sewbold

what do you call a kobold with big feet? a toebold

what do you call a despairing kobold? a woebold 

what do you call a professional kobold? a probold

what do you call an equal exchange of kobolds? quid pro quobold

what do you call a dead kobold? john doebold


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 13, 2003)

*Re: Dog Men*



			
				fusangite said:
			
		

> *OK -- my celebrity worshipping instincts have now been brought under control.*




As a celeb I am on a par with Itsak (sp?) of the Jug is with the deities in Fritz Leiber's yarns about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser



> *On a related subject, I wanted to ask about Kobolds. Although my original Monster Manual is in storage, I recall the 1E Kobolds being dog-men; in 3E they appear to be lizard-men. Is
> 
> 
> 
> ...


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## mistergone (Mar 13, 2003)

RigaMortus said:
			
		

> *"People I Would Most Like To Game With At Least Once" List
> 
> Gary
> Vin Diesel
> ...




That's hilarious. Add Christopher Walken in there, and that would be a good gaming group. Hahaha, oh man, how surreal would that be? Imagine all four of them showing up to your house every other Friday night to game? I wonder if Snoop would bring his posse? "Roll my dice, yo, fo' shizzle." Would he have gold-plated dice? What kind of characters would they play? It would be even funnier if they played something very different from what one would normally expect. Someone told me once that he played in a game with Mr. Gygax at a Con or something and Gary was playing a swedish gnome. Ah, comedy.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 14, 2003)

mistergone said:
			
		

> *
> 
> [snip]
> 
> ... Someone told me once that he played in a game with Mr. Gygax at a Con or something and Gary was playing a swedish gnome. Ah, comedy. *




Likely that was Louhi Sharpnose, my newest OAD&D PC, created about four years back.  He is a Frusti, not a Swede

Cheers,
Gary


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## Bran Blackbyrd (Mar 14, 2003)

*Re: Re: Dog Men*



			
				Col_Pladoh said:
			
		

> *
> 
> As a celeb I am on a par with Itsak (sp?) of the Jug is with the deities in Fritz Leiber's yarns about Fafhrd and the Gray Mouser
> *




I don't know, he might be pretty well known. Last week I referred to my friend David Torma as "Torma of the Jug" for no apparent reason.


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## Col_Pladoh (Mar 14, 2003)

*Re: Re: Re: Dog Men*



			
				Bran Blackbyrd said:
			
		

> *
> 
> I don't know, he might be pretty well known. Last week I referred to my friend David Torma as "Torma of the Jug" for no apparent reason.  *




Well great!  Fritz was a great guy, and I hope his writing remains around for a long time

One of my cherished possession comes from a friend of his, Dr. MacKnight.  That worthy gentleman gave me his copy of THE BOY'S OWN BOOK, 1870 Edition--my own original copy from a distant cousin is an 1890 Edition.

Cheers,
Gary


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