# Just posting to make you all jealous, I HAVE THEM



## Son_of_Thunder

Hello all, the postman delivered not 10 minutes ago a rather heavy package from an internet store. I now have in my possession the 4th edition Core Rulebook Collection. I am just a regular joe that pre-ordered and I guess I'm just lucky.

Now to ignore the internet for awhile and get down to some serious reading.


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## gtJormungand

That must mean you're not bound by any NDA's, so start spilling the beans!


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## Trolls

No, you have a duty to your fellow ENworlders to spend the next several hours answering our questions!

Questions like 'how does a trolls' regeneration work?' and 'what are the shifter's ability mods?'.


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## The_Fan

Patience! At least give the man time to read.

5 minutes. Tops.

I'll be waiting.

My big question: Top tier Martial ailities. Some examples?


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## phil500

what store?


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## Thornir Alekeg

Dang, a week and a half before street date!  Somebody really screwed up.  I wonder what kind of penalty that internet retailer will have to pay if WotC manages to track early shipments back to them.


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## Amy Kou'ai

Things I've been curious about:

What is the wording to the dedication to EGG?
How do wizards learn new spells known?
Are all magic items combat-related?  (Barring ritual scrolls, of course.)


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## DandD

Tell us how rituals work. Better today, than tomorrow.


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## pogminky

Is this a wind-up?

If not, I'm really curious but...... but I'm not sure the poster should divulge anyting before the release date (ducks large numbers of oncoming mssiles).


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## Son_of_Thunder

gtJormungand said:
			
		

> That must mean you're not bound by any NDA's, so start spilling the beans!




That's true, no NDA's for me.


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## WhatGravitas

Son_of_Thunder said:
			
		

> That's true, no NDA's for me.



Stop teasing, or we start tasering teasing you! 

No, seriously, give them a read... and give us more about rituals. And everything else. 

Cheers, LT.


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## Cadfan

If you DO leak information, then please, please PLEASE

Leak something useful.  The leaks we keep getting from people who viewed the rulebook tend to go like this:


			
				Typical Leaked Info Post said:
			
		

> I finally had the chance to look through the rulebooks, and I'm so excited for 4e!  I only had a few minutes to look, and I wasn't allowed to take pictures, so I made sure to spend it on the most important question I could think up- Are Krenshar still in the Monster Manual?  And I'm happy to say that yes, yes they are!  Its a load off my mind.  I was going to go through the PHB and check to see what the different subclasses were for each character class, and commit a few of the more interesting early level powers to memory so that I could tell people playing KotS, but I didn't have time after I took out tracing paper and copied the art for the Krenshar.  Oh well!


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## awindgate

so really who did you get them from? I got them at amazon and was wondering if I should hope to get them before june6.

Thanks from a mortal.


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## Dayspire

Cadfan said:
			
		

> If you DO leak information, then please, please PLEASE
> 
> Leak something useful.  The leaks we keep getting from people who viewed the rulebook tend to go like this:



lol

That was great, Cadfan.


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## Cadfan

Dayspire said:
			
		

> lol
> 
> That was great, Cadfan.



Of course now that I've written that, the only thing he's going to leak will be the Krenshar statblock.


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## Dayspire

Cadfan said:
			
		

> Of course now that I've written that, the only thing he's going to leak will be the Krenshar statblock.



Actually on the RPG.net thread that he created with the same announcement, he's already said that half-elves get +2 Cha and +2 Con.

Which is... confusing.


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## Son_of_Thunder

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Things I've been curious about:
> 
> What is the wording to the dedication to EGG?
> How do wizards learn new spells known?
> Are all magic items combat-related?  (Barring ritual scrolls, of course.)




A simple "Dedicated to the memory of E. Gary Gygax"
You can add to your spellbook rituals, daily and utility castings when your level says you get new ones. You can retrain so that you get rid of some spells and add others.
Will check up on magic items.


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## Dragonblade

Two weeks before street date!! Gah!! I'm so jealous....


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## eleran

phil500 said:
			
		

> what store?





THIS


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## pogminky

This is an odd question but:

What's the quality of the book like?  The paper, printing, cover & artwork?


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## Cadfan

Dayspire said:
			
		

> Actually on the RPG.net thread that he created with the same announcement, he's already said that half-elves get +2 Cha and +2 Con.
> 
> Which is... confusing.



Well, nuts.  Now I don't like half elves.


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## Irda Ranger

awindgate said:
			
		

> so really who did you get them from? I got them at amazon and was wondering if I should hope to get them before june6.



My Amazon pre-order still says expected delivery on June 10. Which is killing me.


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## caudor

If I get mine early, I will spew profusely.

[Dreams of clutching the books from the box]


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## Irda Ranger

Dayspire said:
			
		

> Actually on the RPG.net thread that he created with the same announcement ...



http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=396755


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## Family

Thanks, you're kinda a solid, standup guy arn't ya?  

Now grab the smores fixin's everyone and hunkerdown for some good stories and songs:


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## Amy Kou'ai

Son_of_Thunder said:
			
		

> A simple "Dedicated to the memory of E. Gary Gygax"
> You can add to your spellbook rituals, daily and utility castings when your level says you get new ones. You can retrain so that you get rid of some spells and add others.
> Will check up on magic items.




Thanks!  I was hoping they'd follow up on that dedication.

Hmm, so rituals, dailies, and utilities are all preppable, huh?  Definitely increases wizard versatility, in my mind.

As for magic items -- I'm just hoping that we'll still have quirky items like Nolzur's Mysterious Pigments and so on.


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## Son_of_Thunder

pogminky said:
			
		

> This is an odd question but:
> 
> What's the quality of the book like?  The paper, printing, cover & artwork?




I work in the printing industry so this is an easy one. First the back says "Printed in the U.S.A" which means a lot to me. Secondly the covers and artwork are in beautiful vibrant color. The paper might be of a lighter stock because I noticed very faint folds or small ripples in some pages. This may be from the binding process though. It doesn't mar the books for me though.

I love 'em.


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## Son_of_Thunder

I'll be bouncing back and forth between this thread and the rpg.net one.


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## Irda Ranger

caudor said:
			
		

> If I get mine early, I will spew profusely.



No comment. I'll leave the wit to hong.


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## greeny151

*Where?*

I must cancel my pre-order and order from the store on the internet that you did... so, yeah... A little hint as to where you got yours please???

"Rolls 20 on Diplomacy"


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## Family

From his other thread: Rituals

You can get them from books or scrolls. You must study for 8 uninterrupted hours. To perform the ritual you must do as the ritual says including any skill checks if required. It can require components. But once you've done all that it should work.

-Kumbaya!


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## pogminky

> I work in the printing industry *snip*




Thanks.  I'm pleased to know the production is decent quality - it really makes a difference as to how I recieve the books.  I'm shallow like that.


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## Son_of_Thunder

Amy Kou'ai said:
			
		

> Thanks!  I was hoping they'd follow up on that dedication.
> 
> Hmm, so rituals, dailies, and utilities are all preppable, huh?  Definitely increases wizard versatility, in my mind.
> 
> As for magic items -- I'm just hoping that we'll still have quirky items like Nolzur's Mysterious Pigments and so on.




I didn't see Nolzur's Mysterious Pigments but there are some good utility items not just for battle.


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## jaldaen

My main question is how the Ranger's at-will two-weapon fighting exploit works... and whether or not it is melee only or both melee and ranged (and thereby useful to both two-weapon fighters and archers). Thanks.


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## Irda Ranger

Son_of_Thunder said:
			
		

> I'll be bouncing back and forth between this thread and the rpg.net one.



If you please Sir, ...

*Rituals*.  Are Rituals limited to spell-effects only, or are there Rituals for things like making Sunrods too?  Is there a difference between Arcane and Divine Rituals? Are there non-magical Rituals?

*DMG*.  Can you give us the Chapter headings? I'm still trying to figure out what's in this thing.


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## andarilhor

The 1st level wizard starts with two daily spells, and I want to know if they continue to receive two dailies and two utilities instead of one in higher levels, or they receive only one of each but can wider his abilities finding then in scrolls and spellbooks?

And... you can pass the full stats of half-elfs? I still cannot believe it is... just that!

Thanks for sharing with us your strike of luck!


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## Son_of_Thunder

The_Fan said:
			
		

> Patience! At least give the man time to read.
> 
> 5 minutes. Tops.
> 
> I'll be waiting.
> 
> My big question: Top tier Martial ailities. Some examples?




I'm not sure I understand you. Are you talking about some of the powers High level fighters, rangers, and paladins get?


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## Family

I hearby dub thee:





No request from me though except: what do YOU find interesting?


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## Xethreau

If nothing else, will you please tell me this MR. Thunder:  Is there a section in the DMG (I would presume it would be in the DMG) giving guidelines and rules for making your own classes, powers, paths and destinies?

-edit-
I agree with Family:  What is something you find "startling" about 4e?


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## marune

What's the Tarrasque's level and status (elite/solo ?)


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## SoulStorm

Ok, I only have one very specific question.  Is there an overland flight ritual?  If so, what is the cost to use it?

Ok, I lied, one more.  How about a water breathing ritual and the cost of using that?

Thank you O' great omniscient one!


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## Son_of_Thunder

jaldaen said:
			
		

> My main question is how the Ranger's at-will two-weapon fighting exploit works... and whether or not it is melee only or both melee and ranged (and thereby useful to both two-weapon fighters and archers). Thanks.




melee only.


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## OchreJelly

<squinted eyes>
*views this thread with dubious suspicion*
</squinted eyes>


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## DandD

What feats do you need to cast rituals? Do you need to have the wizard/cleric/warlock/whatever-magical-spellcaster-multiclass-feat?


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## Family

Paragon Path Names:



			
				RandomCitizenX said:
			
		

> Cleric
> -Angelic avenger
> -Divine oracle
> -Radiant servant
> -Warpriest
> Fighter
> -Iron vanguard
> -Kensei
> -Pit fighter
> -Swordmaster
> Paladin
> -Astral weapon
> -Champion of order
> -Hospitaler
> -Justiciar
> Ranger
> -Battlefield archer
> -Beast stalker
> -Pathfinder
> -Stormwarden
> Rogue
> -Cat burglar
> -Daggermaster
> -Master infiltrator
> -Shadow assassin
> Warlock
> -Doomsayer
> -Feytouched
> -Life-stealer
> Warlord
> -Battle captain
> -Combat veteran
> -Knight commander
> -Sword marshal
> Wizard
> -Battle mage
> -Blood mage
> -Spellstorm mage
> -Wizard of the Spiral Tower




My first born son shakes his fist at thee for all the whoopin's he's gonna get at school for being named after you


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## Son_of_Thunder

Irda Ranger said:
			
		

> If you please Sir, ...
> 
> *Rituals*.  Are Rituals limited to spell-effects only, or are there Rituals for things like making Sunrods too?  Is there a difference between Arcane and Divine Rituals? Are there non-magical Rituals?
> 
> *DMG*.  Can you give us the Chapter headings? I'm still trying to figure out what's in this thing.




I talked about rituals on the rpg.net thread. I'll get back with you on non-spell effect rituals later.

DMG chapter headings:

1. How to be a DM
2. Running the game.
3. Combat Encounters
4. Building Encounters
5. Non Combat Encounters
6. Adventures
7. Rewards
8. Campaigns
9. The World
10. The DM's Toolbox
11. Fallcrest


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## Xethreau

*f5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5 F5*


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## Family

From Agrias Oaks on another board.



> Epic destinies
> 
> Archmage
> Deadly Trickster
> Demigod
> Eternal Seeker
> 
> EDIT: Hate you Yo!master
> 
> Dwarf info
> 
> +2 con, +2 wis
> +2 to dungeoneering and endurance
> 
> +5 saves against poison
> can use 2nd wind as a minor action instead of standard
> gain prof with throwing and warhammers
> Move at normal speed when otherwise would be encumbered by armor or heavy load
> get pushed back by 1 square less then normal, and can make a saving throw to immediately get up if knocked prone.


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## jaldaen

Son_of_Thunder said:
			
		

> melee only.



Could you give a few hints as to how it works? Is there a penalty to each attack? Can it only attack one creature? two adjacent creatures? I'd love to see the full write-up, but I'd settle for the highlights that make it unique (and figure out the rest for myself). Thanks.


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## Counterspin

Could we get a look at the feat version of two weapon fighting?


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## Son_of_Thunder

Got to sign off for awhile. Be back later.


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## Xethreau

Son_of_Thunder said:
			
		

> Got to sign off for awhile. Be back later.



I think I just died a little on the inside...


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## hectorse

Are those all the epic destinies?


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## zaraphael

Yeah, found out where he got it...and they don't ship to Canada. Bah!


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## parcival42

zaraphael said:
			
		

> Yeah, found out where he got it...and they don't ship to Canada. Bah!




Where would that be?


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## Gizmoduck5000

What internet store did you go through?


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## greeny151

*Hah*

he ordered from a place that rhymes with die.com


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## jadarx

parcival42 said:
			
		

> Where would that be?




From some hintings, it appears to be buy.com.  Although the listing there still says Pre-order June 6.


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## zaraphael

I'll give you a hint, you won't find it on thsi site but if you do the right search on the other you will find it...assuming he didn't change who he preordered through.  

edit:jeez you could let them do their own work.  

*watches everyone scramble to change their preorders*


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## Knight Otu

Well, there goes any hope for a constructive evening for me...

A few monster questions for when you return, if I may:
How many age categories do dragons have?
Minotaur PCs - Are they medium, or large. If large, what are the general consequences? Are some of the ability score increases pre-chosen?
Is there a mind worm or nerve swimmer swarm monster? 


Spoiler



Yes, I know, no chance for that. But I did have to ask.


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## Family

BADGERS! I forgot to ask about badgers! NOOOOOOOO!!


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## Daniel D. Fox

I just got mine, too! My fiance called and told me that a package from Buy.com arrived today.

Between these and the release of Mass Effect at midnight tonight, I'm going to be a very busy person!


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## jelmore

Irda Ranger said:
			
		

> My Amazon pre-order still says expected delivery on June 10. Which is killing me.




QFT


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## Xethreau

Moniker said:
			
		

> I just got mine, too! My fiance called and told me that a package from Buy.com arrived today.
> 
> Between these and the release of Mass Effect at midnight tonight, I'm going to be a very busy person!



Please, please brother, make time to answer our questions!


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## Nahat Anoj

I asked this on RPG.net, but I'll also ask it here...

Is there an Aasimar or Celestial type race in the MM1? I vaguely remember a list of monsters-as-races floating about, but I can't remember if they were on the list.

Also, what do Gnomes and Orcs get?


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## greeny151

*Cancelled my Amaxon Order*

Just switched to Buy.com. Hopefully they will send out the books before WOTC catches on....


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## Family

Do badgers get a lair?





Can they cast sleep?




Can they take classes?





(I'd add in "Do they get a bonus to Wisdom?" but I couldn't find a good pic of Mr. Badger from Wind in the Willows.) But here is one more, just 'cuz it's fuzzy and deadly at the same time:


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## DerekSTheRed

Can you give us a list of monster templates in the DMG and expand a bit more on the DM's Toolbox?

Derek


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## Brown Jenkin

When you have the chance can you post the tracing of the Krenshar. 

More importantly what kind of support is provided on human NPC creation.


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## sunbear

I dont see anywhere that it says the books would be shipped now on buy.com. Says clearly, PRE ORDER. Am I missing something?

I dont think I want to risk canceling my amazon order and hoping the Buy.com guys mess up and ship it to me early.


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## Cadfan

ARGH!

Can someone please, please post the subclasses?

Each subclass plays differently, for the subclasses we've seen so far.  In a very real sense, because we don't know the subclasses, we don't actually know the core classes in the PHB.  I can't believe everyone is so willing to let that state of affairs stand.


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## keterys

Man, I picked the wrong place to preorder from.

I'd really love a list of the templates in the DMG. I think that's actually the tippy top of my list of things I want to know


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## Classic Villany

What I would like to know about

Demons (specifically the Balor and Marilith)
Devils
Devourers
Giants
Minotaurs
Trolls
Tarrasque
Wraiths

Monster PC's

List of all monsters in the Monster Manual

Details on the Warlock

Thanks in advance.


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## tenken

keterys said:
			
		

> Man, I picked the wrong place to preorder from.
> 
> I'd really love a list of the templates in the DMG. I think that's actually the tippy top of my list of things I want to know



Cross-posted from rpg.net:



> There are 2 template types. Functional templates (Such as Lich, mummy lord, DEATH KNIGHT), and 'Class' templates (All the player classes)
> 
> FUNCTIONAL TEMPLATES
> 
> Battle Champion
> Bodyguard
> Death Knight
> Death Master
> Demagogue
> Demonic Acolyte
> Devastator
> Feyborn
> Frost Adept
> Lich
> Mummy Lord
> Mummy Champion
> Savage berserker
> Scion of Flame
> Shadowborn Stalker
> Vampire Lord
> 
> Class Templates
> 
> Cleric
> Fighter
> Paladin
> Ranger
> Rogue
> Warlock
> Warlord
> Wizard


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## shoplifter

sunbear said:
			
		

> I dont see anywhere that it says the books would be shipped now on buy.com. Says clearly, PRE ORDER. Am I missing something?
> 
> I dont think I want to risk canceling my amazon order and hoping the Buy.com guys mess up and ship it to me early.




I just went ahead and added an order from Buy. If it shows up within a week, then I'll cancel my Amazon order. If not, I cancel the Buy order. I figure no harm done either way.


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## VenezuelanWiz

*Re:Templates*

This is from the thread on forums.rpg.net: http://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?t=396755

 Originally Posted by Agrias oaks  
DMG templates for monsters?

Quite a list, here we go!

There are 2 template types. Functional templates (Such as Lich, mummy lord, DEATH KNIGHT), and 'Class' templates (All the player classes)

FUNCTIONAL TEMPLATES

Battle Champion
Bodyguard
Death Knight
Death Master
Demagogue
Demonic Acolyte
Devastator
Feyborn
Frost Adept
Lich
Mummy Lord
Mummy Champion
Savage berserker
Scion of Flame
Shadowborn Stalker
Vampire Lord

Class Templates

Cleric
Fighter
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Warlock
Warlord
Wizard


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## Counterspin

Second Cadfan's request for info on all the subclasses


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## Thornir Alekeg

sunbear said:
			
		

> I dont see anywhere that it says the books would be shipped now on buy.com. Says clearly, PRE ORDER. Am I missing something?
> 
> I dont think I want to risk canceling my amazon order and hoping the Buy.com guys mess up and ship it to me early.



 Probably a smart move.  

As soon as WotC gets wind of it (which I'm sure has already happened as the threads start to fly), they will be swinging a legal greataxe at Buy.com to get them to stop if Buy.com hasn't already figured it out on their own and stopped shipping them.


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## malraux

sunbear said:
			
		

> I dont see anywhere that it says the books would be shipped now on buy.com. Says clearly, PRE ORDER. Am I missing something?
> 
> I dont think I want to risk canceling my amazon order and hoping the Buy.com guys mess up and ship it to me early.



Likely its a single shipment warehouse that screwed up.  I wouldn't count on any order placed today getting shipped early.


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## Pssthpok

Could you tell us about Meteor Swarm? Is it in the game? Is it awesome?

I second the request for Tarrasque level and rank (elite or solo).


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## Lanoitakude

I'm dying to know what the Star Pact Boon and At-Will power are.


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## SoulStorm

What are the player character traits of the Doppleganger?  Any indication that the Doppleganger is replacing the Changeling?


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## Counterspin

The cat is out of the bag though.  The post office isn't going to retrieve the already shipped parcels at WOTC's request.  I likewise doubt that orders made in response to this will get you your books early.  Either you got lucky a while ago, or you're going to have to wait like the rest of us unfortunate plebians.


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## VBMEW-01

My question probably got lost in the tumult earlier.

What are the stat differences for small, medium, and large creatures?

Now I'll back off as I hate being part of an eager mob 

CANCEL THIS: Random got me on the other thread


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## Byronic

Lanoitakude said:
			
		

> I'm dying to know what the Star Pact Boon and At-Will power are.




I am looking forward to that information as well (although I do remember someone posting that they require Con and Cha)

Also is there any mechanical reason why they rely on two stats while the other two pacts rely on one? Do they have a greater advantage or something?


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## jelmore

Regarding pre-orders:

Meh, I can live with waiting, as my next gaming session probably won't be until after 4E is supposed to ship anyway (although it'd be interesting to see if Amazon has a similar "accident" as a result). The $4 price difference isn't enough to justify switching my order and hoping the other place is still shipping early.

Besides, I can sit and enjoy the ENWorld and RPGnet threads of people asking and answering questions...


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## shoplifter

malraux said:
			
		

> Likely its a single shipment warehouse that screwed up.  I wouldn't count on any order placed today getting shipped early.




The order I just made now says 'sent to warehouse.' I can only assume that means they'll be shipping my books today or tomorrow. I certainly wouldn't count on Buy continuing to ship orders though.


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## Twizz Stonefist

Meteor Swarm                                         Wizard attack 29
Hit: 8d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage.


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## andarilhor

The 1st level wizard starts with two daily spells, and I want to know if they continue to receive two dailies and two utilities instead of one in higher levels, or they receive only one of each but can wider his abilities finding then in scrolls and spellbooks?


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## Twizz Stonefist

deleted


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## NMcCoy

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Standard Action Area burst 5 within 20 squares



Wait, _burst_ 5? As in an 11x11 square? Yeah, that's pretty sweet.


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## TheArcane

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Meteor Swarm                                         Wizard attack 29
> Fiery orbs rain down from above, shrieking loudly as they fall.
> They smash into your foes, obliterating them in a storm of fire
> and scorching the ground.
> Daily Arcane, Fire, Implement
> Standard Action Area burst 5 within 20 squares
> Target: Each creature in burst
> Attack: Intelligence vs. Reflex
> Hit: 8d6 + Intelligence modifier fire damage.
> Miss: Half damage.




Wow, that's really underwhelming, especially for a level 29 daily. 8-48 plus modifier? There are creatures 20 levels lower with more hit points!


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## mach1.9pants

I love it. Expensive (i.e. don't do it all the time and steal the rogues thunder but only when real important) and effective.







> RITUAL
> 
> Detect Secret Doors
> 
> With a smile and a wink, you show Sovellis the outline of the trapdoor he missed.
> 
> Level: 3
> Category: exploration
> Time: 10 minutes
> Duration: instantaneous
> Component Cost: 275 GP
> Market Price: 125 GP
> Key Skill: Arcana
> 
> Make an Arcane check. Use the result as a bonus to a perception check you immediately make to find any secret or hidden doors in your line of sight. If anyone aided you while performing this ritual, they can't help you make the resulting perception check.


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## Family

shoplifter said:
			
		

> The order I just made now says 'sent to warehouse.' I can only assume that means they'll be shipping my books today or tomorrow.








BWHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahAHAHAHAHhahahahah!


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## Twizz Stonefist

deleted sorry


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## mach1.9pants

andarilhor said:
			
		

> The 1st level wizard starts with two daily spells, and I want to know if they continue to receive two dailies and two utilities instead of one in higher levels, or they receive only one of each but can wider his abilities finding then in scrolls and spellbooks?



it was mentioned that dailies, rituals and utilities go in the spell book. this says to me that you will have more of these than other classes to choose from


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## shoplifter

Family said:
			
		

> [img-RaidersSmithsonianWarehouse.jpg]
> BWHAHAHAHAHAhahahahahAHAHAHAHhahahahah!




Haha, yeah, I know Buy.com's stock management is always a little flaky, but I've never seen a preorder item go that that state before, so I'm going to have a little faith for a day or two.  


edit: whaddaya know, order is now 'in shipping process' so I suppose I really am going to get them.


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## andarilhor

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Daily and Utility Spells: Your spellbook also
> holds your daily and utility spells. You begin knowing
> two daily spells, one of which you can use on any given
> day. Each time you gain a level that lets you select a
> daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily
> spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book.
> After an extended rest, you can prepare a number of
> daily and utility spells according to what you can cast
> per day for your level. You can’t prepare the same spell
> twice.
> If you replace a spell because of gaining a level or
> through retraining, the previous spell vanishes from
> your spellbook and is replaced by the new spell.




COOOOOOLLLLLL!!!!!

Thanks!!!


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## keterys

Good to get confirmation that 'Spellbook' is indeed an awesome bonus


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

No Tarrasque in the MM. I was wrong he is in there.


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## ZetaStriker

TheArcane said:
			
		

> Wow, that's really underwhelming, especially for a level 29 daily. 8-48 plus modifier? There are creatures 20 levels lower with more hit points!




It's got a massive range though. Burst 5 is hitting _121_ squares, and the massive 20 square range is nice for a Wizard doing what he should be doing... which is to say keeping his distance.


----------



## Nightchilde-2

You realize, of course, that now I will not get anymore work done today.  See what you did?  Vicious people.  You should send me your copies of the books until such time as the actual release date so that I hold them for you, you realize, right?


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Rituals: Your book contains three 1st-level rituals


----------



## Victim

TheArcane said:
			
		

> Wow, that's really underwhelming, especially for a level 29 daily. 8-48 plus modifier? There are creatures 20 levels lower with more hit points!




Creatures 20 levels lower are probably going to be considered minions.

Compared to the level 29 fighter daily that we've seen, Meteor Swarm looks pretty sweet.


----------



## Jack99

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Daily and Utility Spells: Your spellbook also
> holds your daily and utility spells. You begin knowing
> two daily spells, one of which you can use on any given
> day. *Each time you gain a level that lets you select a
> daily spell or a utility spell, choose two different daily
> spells or utility spells of that level to add to your book.*
> After an extended rest, you can prepare a number of
> daily and utility spells according to what you can cast
> per day for your level. You can’t prepare the same spell
> twice.
> If you replace a spell because of gaining a level or
> through retraining, the previous spell vanishes from
> your spellbook and is replaced by the new spell.




Rawr. There goes one of my last fears about 4e.


----------



## Knight Otu

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> No Tarrasque in the MM.



Did you check under Abomination?


----------



## bording

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> No Tarrasque in the MM.




Check for it under the Abomination heading please!


----------



## Mal Malenkirk

No Tarrasque?

But it's such a classical monster!  I have my PCs fight one every two or three session.  What am I gonna do now?


----------



## Mouseferatu

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> No Tarrasque in the MM.




Actually, there is. Due to the new mythological background, its' grouped with several other creatures under the "Abomination" entry.


----------



## Kahoots

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> No Tarrasque in the MM.



EDIT: Ninja'd. Thanks Ari!


----------



## ZetaStriker

How about we see a Level 2 Utility Power and Level 3 Encounter Power for the Fey-pact Warlock and Bowman Ranger, so that we run those classes through KotS?


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Sorry no badger in the MM.


----------



## keterys

Edit: ... quite some site lag we're getting.


----------



## Family

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Sorry no badger in the MM.



I can't choose a joke here (too many choices), so let me just say thanks for lookin'.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Tarrasque Level 30 Solo Brute
Gargantuan elemental magical beast XP 95,000


----------



## andarilhor

keterys said:
			
		

> Edit: ... quite some site lag we're getting.



Any ideas why this is happening?!


----------



## Family

Rawr!


----------



## keterys

Huh. Making the tarrasque an abomination of earth that is 'bane' flying. Didn't see that coming.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Ranger

Level 2 Utility Exploits

Crucial Advice Ranger Utility 2

Unbalancing Parry Ranger Utility 2

Yield Ground Ranger Utility 2

Level 3 Encounter Exploits

Cut and Run Ranger Attack 3

Disruptive Strike Ranger Attack 3

Shadow Wasp Strike Ranger Attack 3

Thundertusk Boar Strike Ranger Attack 3


----------



## Knight Otu

Yikes!

Elemental origin? I thought the abominations were weapons of the gods?


----------



## The_Fan

*jawdrop*

Tarrasque is scary again.


----------



## mach1.9pants

Tarrasque=ouch
also







> Text deleted by admin


----------



## Family

keterys said:
			
		

> Huh. Making the tarrasque an abomination of earth that is 'bane' flying. Didn't see that coming.




No one EXPECTS a Tarrasque Abomination.


----------



## TheArcane

ZetaStriker said:
			
		

> It's got a massive range though. Burst 5 is hitting _121_ squares, and the massive 20 square range is nice for a Wizard doing what he should be doing... which is to say keeping his distance.




Well, I do suppose that the controller role is more about range than firepower, but still, unmodified (assuming it can be modified somehow) this power will barely scratch any creature at these levels. You've seen the previews - enormous amounts of HP...
Balancing classes is fine and dandy, but level 29 spells should be real killers IMHO. There's nothing epic about a scorching inferno from the heavens that causes the enemy to be slightly uncomfortably warm.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Level 3 Encounter Spells

Eldritch Rain Warlock (Fey) Attack 3
Hit: 1d10 + Charisma modifier damage.


Otherwind Stride Warlock (Fey) Attack 3
Hit: 1d8 + Charisma modifier damage, and the target is immobilized
until the end of your next turn.


----------



## Toryx

It's a good day. I just sold my books for $350.

I didn't bother looking anything up, but I can say that the books really look good. I do think that the paper is a little thinner than I'd like, but otherwise they appear to be well made.

I never would have thought anyone would make as big a mistake as XXXXXX did by shipping them so early. Their mistake is my gain.


----------



## Family

Toryx said:
			
		

> It's a good day. I just sold my books for $350.
> 
> I didn't bother looking anything up, but I can say that the books really look good. I do think that the paper is a little thinner than I'd like, but otherwise they appear to be well made.
> 
> I never would have thought anyone would make as big a mistake as XXXXXX did by shipping them so early. Their mistake is my gain.




Well played good sir, +2 Wisdom.


----------



## Kahoots

*sigh*

I guess that I'm not going to be getting any work done this week.

*rapid firing the refresh button*


----------



## jasin

How does Channel Divinity work, specifically how are its applications affected by choice of deity?


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Any other questions? Want to start writing some 4E demos to run.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Channel Divinity
Once per encounter you can invoke divine power, filling
yourself with the might of your patron deity. With
the divine might you invoke you can wield special
powers, such as turn undead and divine fortune. Some
clerics learn other uses for this feature; for instance,
the divinity feats in Chapter 6 grant characters with
access to the Channel Divinity class feature the ability
to use additional special powers.
Regardless of how many different uses for Channel
Divinity you know, you can use only one such ability
per encounter. The special ability or power you invoke
works just like your other powers.


----------



## Korgoth

So is sly.com still shipping pre-orders? Should I order from them and kick Amazon to the curb?


----------



## Kahoots

Monster list from RPGNET

[sblock]Aboleth (And aboleth servitor)
Abomination
Angel
Archon
Azer
Balhannoth
Banshee
Basisilisk
Bat
Battlebriar
Bear
Beetle
Behemoth
Beholder
Berbalang
Boar
Bodak
Boneclaw
Bullette
Cambion
Carrion Crawler
Chimera
Choker
Chuul
Colossus
Crocodile
Cyclops
Dark One
Death Knight
Demon
Destrachan
Devil
Devourer
Displacer Beast
Dracolich
Dragon
Dragonborn
Drake
Drider
Drow
Dryad
Dwarf
Eidolon
Eladron
Elemental
Elf
Ettercap
Ettin
Flameskull
Fomorian
Foulspawn
Galeb Duhr
Gargoyle
Ghost
Ghoul
Giant
Gibbering Beast
Githyanki
Githzerai
Gnoll
Gnome
Goblin
Golem
Gorgon
Grell
Grick
Griffon
Grimlock
Guardian
Hag
Hafling
Harpy
Helmed Horror
Homonculus
Hook Horror
Horse
Hound
Human
Hydra
Hyena
Kobold
Kruthik
Kuo-Toa
Lamia
Larva Mage
Lich (Lich Vestige)
Lizardfolk
Lycanthrope
Magma Beast
Manticore
Marut
Medusa
Mind Flayer
Minotaur
Mummy
Naga
Nightmare
Nightwalker
Ogre
Oni
Ooze
Orc
Orcus
Otyugh
Owlbear
Panther
Purple Worm
Quickling
Rakshasa
Rat
Roc
Roper
Rot Harbinger
Sahugin
Salamander
Satyr
Scorpion
Shadar-Kai
Shambling Mound
Shifter
Skeleton
Skull Lord
Slaad
Snake
Sorrowsworn
Specter
Sphinx
Spider
Stirge
Swordwing
Tiefling
Treant
Troglodyte
Troll
Umber Hulk
Unicorn
Vampire (Vampire Spawn)
Vine horror
Warforged
Wight
Wolf
Worg
Wraith
Wyvern
Yuan-Ti
Zombie[/sblock]


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Here's an example of a channel divinity feat.

Armor of Bahamut [Divinity]
Prerequisites: Channel Divinity class feature,
must worship Bahamut
Benefit: You can invoke the power of your deity to
use armor of Bahamut.

Channel Divinity: Armor of Bahamut Feat Power
Bahamut protects you or a friend from devastating harm.
Encounter Divine
Immediate Interrupt Ranged 5
Trigger: An enemy scores a critical hit on you or an ally
Effect: Turn a critical hit against you or an ally within range
into a normal hit.
Special: You must take the Armor of Bahamut feat to use this
power.


----------



## Elphilm

What about the Balor and the Marilith? Any chance of getting their stats?


----------



## Storm-Bringer

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Eldritch Rain Warlock (Fey) Attack 3
> 
> 
> Text removed by admin.



My first Warlock will be named Prince.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Male Dwarf Bolter and a female Dwarf Hammerer.
Dwarves rock sorry but i'm editing all my posts.


----------



## Majoru Oakheart

TheArcane said:
			
		

> Well, I do suppose that the controller role is more about range than firepower, but still, unmodified (assuming it can be modified somehow) this power will barely scratch any creature at these levels. You've seen the previews - enormous amounts of HP...
> Balancing classes is fine and dandy, but level 29 spells should be real killers IMHO. There's nothing epic about a scorching inferno from the heavens that causes the enemy to be slightly uncomfortably warm.



Well, the average on 8d6 is 28.  Plus a +6 wand, an int of 28 for +9 more.  That's 43.

1420 hitpoints for The Tarrasque, assuming the above is correct.  Assuming 5 members of a party each doing about that much damage, then it is 215 damage a round.  Of course, we'll have to assume everyone has about a 50% chance of hitting.  So, 107 per round.  About 14 rounds to defeat the Tarrasque without any crits, feats, or other abilities(including half damage on a miss).  About right, I'd say.

I mean, that's the goal...your spells should eventually wear out a creature, not kill it in one or two hits.


----------



## Thornir Alekeg

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Frenzy (standard, usable only while bloodied; at-will)
> Close burst 3; the tarrasque makes a bite attack against each
> creature within the burst.



 I'll just wait back here and shoot at him.  You guys go on ahead and swing your swords.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

GOOD, LAWFUL GOOD, AND UNALIGNED DEITIES

Avandra 
Bahamut 
Corellon 
Erathis 
Ioun 
Kord 
Melora 
Moradin 
Pelor 
Raven Queen 
Sehanine 

Only ones I see listed in the players handbook.


----------



## VenezuelanWiz

Edit: Already posted above


----------



## Flazzy

Majoru Oakheart said:
			
		

> Well, the average on 8d6 is 28.  Plus a +6 wand, an int of 28 for +9 more.  That's 43.
> 
> 1420 hitpoints for The Tarrasque, assuming the above is correct.  Assuming 5 members of a party each doing about that much damage, then it is 215 damage a round.  Of course, we'll have to assume everyone has about a 50% chance of hitting.  So, 107 per round.  About 14 rounds to defeat the Tarrasque without any crits, feats, or other abilities(including half damage on a miss).  About right, I'd say.
> 
> I mean, that's the goal...your spells should eventually wear out a creature, not kill it in one or two hits.




Notice the Tarrasque has resist 10 all. Then again a burst 5 is probably not the power of choice against a level 30 solo (as opposed to 15 level 30 minions).


----------



## Kahoots

Can you post a few high level (possibly Epic) Warlord powers?

<--- Really interested!

Thanks!


----------



## Counterspin

Can we get a spoiler tag on that VenezuelanWiz?  We've already got the info, and it's hogging a ton of vertical space.


----------



## MindWanderer

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Tarrasque
> Earthbinding aura 40; any flying creature in the aura has its fly speed reduced to 1 and maximum altitude reduced to 20 feet (putting it within the tarrasque’s reach). Any creature above this altitude at the end of its turn falls to an altitude of 20 feet automatically.



This.

It not only makes thematic sense, it also neatly removes the Tarrasque's traditional biggest weakness.  I love it.







			
				Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Ranger
> 
> Level 2 Utility Exploits
> 
> Crucial Advice Ranger Utility 2
> You are wise in all things. The sooner your friends realize this, the
> safer and better off they’ ll be.
> 
> Text removed by admin.



This too.

I can see from this and other powers that a high-Wis ranger is going to be an awesome thing.  My first character, the elven cleric/ranger, will definitely be using this for a while.

Things I dislike:
- Warlock options.  It seems that warlocks don't get to choose much of anything beyond their pact.  Their at-will and paragon path are set in stone after that (although: is there a feat that allows a warlock to make more than one pact?  If not now, probably in Arcane Power).  And conversely, it looks like no other class can take a warlock paragon path.  At least it looks like higher-level powers aren't quite as restrictive, although taking cross-pact powers looks like shooting yourself in the foot.
- Epic destinies.  Only four?  And they're all power source-focused?  Man, the 3.5e Epic Destiny article made them look so much better.  A typical party will have the same destiny for two or even three characters.  I can see it in an RPGA game: "Nice to meet you.  What are you up to?" "Oh, just trying to become a deity."  "What a coincidence, me too!"
- Berbalang?  _Berbalang_ in the MM?  Full of fail.


----------



## Fiendish Dire Weasel

I'd love to see Cleric information. If they can use shields, their skills, their 2 class options and their 2 melee at-wills, any would be great.

Also any PHB Diety info, especially Moradin.

Many thanks!


----------



## Masquerade

Storm-Bringer said:
			
		

> My first Warlock will be named Prince.



I was thinking "Zonday" for mine.  _Eldritch Raaaaain..._


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Level 29 Daily Spells

Curse of the Dark Delirium Warlock (Fey) Attack 29
You trap your enemy’s mind with bewildering fey power.


Doom of Delban Warlock (Star) Attack 29
Hit: 5d10 + Constitution modifier cold damage.


Hurl through Hell Warlock (Infernal) Attack 29
Hit: 7d10 + Constitution modifier fire damage


----------



## Korgoth

MindWanderer said:
			
		

> - Berbalang?  _Berbalang_ in the MM?  Full of fail.




Why?  It's a cool monster.


----------



## jaldaen

Anyone willing to hand me the 1st level two-weapon fighting at-will power on a silver platter? Bueller?


----------



## Kahoots

EDIT: Double Post.


----------



## Kahoots

Is it just me or did it get mighty quiet around here?


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Can clerics use shields? As a class ability no, But they can buy the feats

Moradin - Lawful good - Creation, artisans, family


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Dude that took forever to find and type.


----------



## Gargazon

What the... WHERE'S MY DINOSAURS!?!?!

No, seriously, where?


----------



## Kahoots

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Dude that took forever to find and type.



Sorry... I'm just a bit trigger happy.   

*anxiously awaiting my Epic Warlord powers.*


----------



## Family

Kahoots said:
			
		

> Is it just me or did it get mighty quiet around here?




Everyone must be voting on my poll and calling WotC to encourgae them to run with the idea...


----------



## Fiendish Dire Weasel

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Dude that took forever to find and type.




Much appreciated for doing so!


----------



## Knight Otu

Gargazon said:
			
		

> What the... WHERE'S MY DINOSAURS!?!?!
> 
> No, seriously, where?



Under the Behemoth header, apparently.


----------



## Gargazon

Knight Otu said:
			
		

> Under the Behemoth header, apparently.




So Behemoths = Dinosaurs now? Fair enough. That'll take some getting used to...

Are there Raptors and T-Rexes?


----------



## Kahoots

Family said:
			
		

> Everyone must be voting on my poll and calling WotC to encourgae them to run with the idea...



*voted*


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Ranger get two weapon fighting as a class ability

Now for other classes there are Feats

Two-Weapon Defense

Two-Weapon Fighting


----------



## keterys

And a shout out to Clark, from rpg.net:

_copyrighted material removed by admin_
__________________


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Macetail Behemoth Level 7 Soldier


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Basicly the 2 dinosaurs are a stegosaurus and an anklosaurus. Just imagine if the we’re viscous.


----------



## Classic Villany

First of all thanks for posting all this great info!

Now then, could you give us some details on the following Monsters?

Demons (specifically the Balor and Marilith)
Devils
Devourers
Dragons
Giants
Kuo-Toa
Minotaurs
Troglodytes
Trolls
Yuan-Ti

Also, could you list what weapons and armor are included in the PH?


----------



## Family

Kahoots said:
			
		

> Is it just me or did it get mighty quiet around here?




*Brace yourself* I WAS WRONG! 

I posted this in the "How will you read the core books day one" thread:


			
				Family said:
			
		

> because this won't be an option:
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> I'll have to resort to:
> Jimmy: Son, you really readin' all these books at the same time?
> Matthew: Yep.
> Jimmy: What about this one? It's upside down.
> Matthew: Mr. James, no offence, but have you ever read four books at a time?
> Jimmy: No.
> Matthew: Then don't tell me how to do it.




Apparently every one is not listening the ENWorlds right now, they are looking at the woman in the red dress.


----------



## JoshWilhoyte

Awesome info, dudes, thanks,

  josh


----------



## jelmore

For the Eberron fans in the house, how about the writeups for Warforged and Shifters as races from the MM?


----------



## baberg

--Removed weapons descriptions--

Generic info about weapons:

Different weapons grant different bonuses for being proficient in them - most are +2, some are +3.  Damage ranges from 1d4 to 2d6.  The most expensive weapon is 30gp.  Level 1 characters begin with 100gp.  Crossbows are "Load minor" while other bows are "Load free"


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

BALOR
FEW DEMONS ARE MORE FORMIDABLE than the cruel balor.
Weaker demons obey the balor’s commands out of fear of
being torn asunder. 

Balor Level 27 Elite Brute


----------



## Kahoots

Awesome indeed!

Thanks to all.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Trolls eat anything that moves


----------



## cjais

Any examples of what high level racial feats look like?


----------



## Family

I'd like to hear their speil on "What is role-playing?" My In-laws are coming into and will be here for game night, and we have a new friend of my wife's from the office joining us.

-Sorry PC, I'll just use my 3.5 blurb...good call.


----------



## Piratecat

Guys, you're breaking copyright.

No more posting giant chunks of text, please. You can answer questions and discuss rules, but reposting more than snippets of text isn't okay. I'm just as excited here as everyone else, but please use good common sense in this regard.

Thanks!


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Sorry deleteing my posts


----------



## Morrus

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Ranger Class Features
> Your class features depend largely on the build and
> fighting style you choose.
> 
> Fighting Style
> Choose one of the following fighting styles and gain its
> benefit.
> Archer Fighting Style: Because of your focus on
> ranged attacks, you gain Defensive Mobility as a bonus
> feat. Two-Blade Fighting Style: Because of your
> focus on two-weapon melee attacks, you can wield a
> one-handed weapon in your off hand as if it were an
> off-hand weapon. (Make sure to designate on your
> character sheet which weapon is main and which is offhand.)
> 
> Now for other classes there are Feats
> 
> Two-Weapon Defense
> Prerequisites: Dex 13, Two-Weapon Fighting
> Benefit: While holding a melee weapon in each
> hand, you gain a +1 shield bonus to AC and Reflex.
> 
> Two-Weapon Fighting
> Prerequisite: Dex 13
> Benefit: While holding a melee weapon in each
> hand, you gain a +1 bonus to damage rolls with your
> main weapon.
> 
> Next up dinosaurs.




I must commend you for taking the tiome to even put the line breaks in the same place.... 

Folks, please do not post entire extracts from the books, even if you really do have them in physical form.  At least put it in your own words.


----------



## Piratecat

Thanks, everyone. Copying the material isn't okay, and I appreciate you adjusting your posts accordingly.


----------



## Classic Villany

Well, shoot. It was fun while it lasted! 

So I'll adjust my request to simply asking, what monsters are listed under the following "headings" and could you list their level and role please?

Abominations
Demons
Devils
Devourers
Giants (exlcuding the Hill Giants & Earth Titan)
Kuo-Toa
Minotaurs
Troglodytes
Trolls
Yuan-Ti

I hope that's not too much info to ask for.

Thanks again.


----------



## jaldaen

I was wondering how zones work? What makes them so different? Are they constant effects? Are there any special rules (besides them being dispellable)? Thanks


----------



## Elsenrail

jaldaen said:
			
		

> I was wondering how zones work? What makes them so different? Are they constant effects? Are there any special rules (besides them being dispellable)? Thanks





I have the books! At last! Monster Manual looks lovely. I'm a stat-geek, so I'm reading it first. Wow! The art is amazing!

Anyone has questions about monsters? Ask.  Other questions too... but I need to read MM first... or rather leaf through.


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Abominations

ASTRAL STALKER
ATROPAL
BLOOD FIEND
PHANE
TARRASQUE


----------



## Twizz Stonefist

Would you guys mind going back and deleting things people quoted about my earlier posts?


----------



## Phoenix8008

shoplifter said:
			
		

> The order I just made now says 'sent to warehouse.' I can only assume that means they'll be shipping my books today or tomorrow. I certainly wouldn't count on Buy continuing to ship orders though.



I placed my order around 5:30 pm and mine says 'sent to warehouse' still also. I'm hopeful that tonight or tomorrow it'll switch to 'in shipping process' which should mean that it can't be stopped by then. If I'm lucky I may be able to get them by this weekend even after getting a late jump on placing my order.


----------



## Daniel D. Fox

So I thought the books I got this morning my fiance picked up were the 4E books from buy.com, but I called customer support and they stated they won't ship until 6/6 and indicated that they have not shipped ANY of the pre-order books yet.

Looks like "some" people were reporting they received the books wherein they really d/led the bittorrents.


----------



## Ghaerdon Fain

I don't condone the torrent thing, but in my eagerness I have been looking and I don't believe they are out in the wild.  At least I haven't come across any illegal copies... or legal for that matter /cry


----------



## Wormwood

Moniker said:
			
		

> So I thought the books I got this morning my fiance picked up were the 4E books from buy.com, but I called customer support and they stated they won't ship until 6/6 and indicated that they have not shipped ANY of the pre-order books yet.



I just got an email from a friend of mine who had the _exact _same conversation with Buy.com.



> Looks like "some" people were reporting they received the books wherein they really d/led the bittorrents.



I'm shocked! Shocked!


----------



## Saitou

Moniker said:
			
		

> So I thought the books I got this morning my fiance picked up were the 4E books from buy.com, but I called customer support and they stated they won't ship until 6/6 and indicated that they have not shipped ANY of the pre-order books yet.
> 
> Looks like "some" people were reporting they received the books wherein they really d/led the bittorrents.



 Unlikely, since the torrent isn't out yet. 



Spoiler



I checked


----------



## Cirex

I don't think that a paragon path being called "Pathfinder" is a coincidence.


----------



## Family

How long does it take to make a Char?


----------



## Cirex

Family said:
			
		

> How long does it take to make a Char?




Since you asked at least three times and you are a funny guy I'll reply.

Not much. There's a solid guide on building the character, pointing at which chapter you need to check for the stuff (powers, feats, equiptment, etc.). Since HP are fixed, there's no need to allocate skill ranks or similar, there are generated arrays and so on, not much. Maybe the longest part would be picking feats.

EDIT : Rereading my post, it may sound like I'm some kind of super being who decided to use some of my precious time to answer to some random mortal. I said that because I rather don't talk much about the books because I want to avoid posting any textual references.


----------



## PrecociousApprentice

There are many reports of torrents all over the various boards. I really hope that wasn't the source of our leaks. The word is that the torrents have the printers proofs on them. Some insider job. It would be a huge coincidence if the torrents happened to come out the same day as someone accidentally got their books delivered. If a WotC guy got them, you know heads will roll. Hopefully for our posters, this really was not the source. If it was, I forsee a huge amount of editing of posts by tomorrow. Sad, I was really hoping to get mine early. Come on June!


----------



## Jack the Red

Any Fluff on why the half-elf have +2 con?

And what the reck is a Demagogue template?


----------



## Wormwood

edit: nevermind


----------



## markusdark

Moniker said:
			
		

> So I thought the books I got this morning my fiance picked up were the 4E books from buy.com, but I called customer support and they stated they won't ship until 6/6 and indicated that they have not shipped ANY of the pre-order books yet.
> 
> Looks like "some" people were reporting they received the books wherein they really d/led the bittorrents.




So, the 'official' pdf's of the books aren't out yet but apparently someone leaked the 'final copy' pdf's that were sent to the printers.  I know, I have seen them.

As for the hard copies - they have been sent.  Here's a photo of one guy with them (the black box is to remove 'inappropriate content' aka - giving the bird).


----------



## unan oranis

I don't know about buy.com, but I have recieved confirmation that my monster manual has shipped, this morning.

So some books are shipping allready, somewhere... I wouldn't be surprised if some arrived early.


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## PrecociousApprentice

That is very good to see, even with the bird. I guess that the torrent people just waited until the books were shipped to *someone*. Some posts are still being heavily modded.


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## Ghaerdon Fain

PrecociousApprentice said:
			
		

> There are many reports of torrents all over the various boards. I really hope that wasn't the source of our leaks. The word is that the torrents have the printers proofs on them. Some insider job. It would be a huge coincidence if the torrents happened to come out the same day as someone accidentally got their books delivered. If a WotC guy got them, you know heads will roll. Hopefully for our posters, this really was not the source. If it was, I forsee a huge amount of editing of posts by tomorrow. Sad, I was really hoping to get mine early. Come on June!




I want to call SHANANAGANS on this whole I got them early thing... until I see picture proof.  

[EDIT] OMG, the pictures are true... darn you Amazon, darn you all to heck @#%#$^$%&^*^&(&*)&


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## Piratecat

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Would you guys mind going back and deleting things people quoted about my earlier posts?



You bet. Thank you.


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## jaldaen

Here's another question: Are there any stance-based attack powers? Or are all stances utility powers?


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## zero skill LPB

[trying other thread]


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## jaldaen

One more question about zones: How does the typical *Target* line for them read.

Examples: Any creature in the zone or All creatures in the zone.


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## Andor

> Fighter
> -Iron vanguard
> -Kensei
> -Pit fighter
> -Swordmaster




Swordmaster, and Kensai (loosely translateable as SwordMaster) are seperate Paragon Paths? Out of 4 possibilities they have two that overlap?

Why does WotC hate my brain?


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## jackston2

Can someone post some cheap trinkets for the players to buy while playing shadowfell?


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## bagginswagon

The name of the poster was the funniest part... "Typical Leaked Info Post."


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## fnwc

Moniker said:
			
		

> So I thought the books I got this morning my fiance picked up were the 4E books from buy.com, but I called customer support and they stated they won't ship until 6/6 and indicated that they have not shipped ANY of the pre-order books yet.




My overstock.com order tells me:

Dungeons and Dragons Core Rulebook Gift Set, 4th Edition (Box set)
	1 	$59.82 	Shipped* 	May 23, 2008

However, I clicked on the tracking number info, and it says, "No information available at this time", which is a bit suspicious.


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## Ipissimus

I have 2 questions, hopefully easy to answer without quoting the books word for word...

The Skill Training feat vs. skill training from Multiclass feats: is there a difference? Is it just any one skill becoming trained on the first and selecting one from a limited list on the second?


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## Dark080matter

jelmore said:
			
		

> For the Eberron fans in the house, how about the writeups for Warforged and Shifters as races from the MM?





*x2, with Cheese.*  

Anything, just a generic overview of what they do.  And thanks for putting up with all of us unfortunate forum denizens!


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## PrecociousApprentice

In order to ease my mind on this whole illegal pdf thing, I went down to the local bookstore. It is a chain, so the guy didn't know the whole hubub going on. I told him that some people have gotten their books already and I was wondering if they had them in. I said I understand that they aren't supposed to be out till 6/6, but I would appreciate it if he could give me some info. He checked store records, and they are in stock, but not on the shelves until 6/6. I didn't pester him, because he was sorta doing me a favor to begin with.

So there are illegal copies going around, but the books have at least shipped to the retailers at this point. Some people already have legit copies. I am a little frustrated that WotC went to all this trouble to make sure that everyone got their books at the same time, and then the whole plan went to crap. This would all be OK if they would just say, "Since we screwed it up, we'll just release them early." Why is it that they would push good people to find illegal copies, even when the books are available to be sold? Sure, no one is forcing anyone to get the pdfs, but I understand those that do. Some people already got their books, and now it isn't fair. We should all beseach WotC to let the books be sold now.


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## ender_wiggin

I don't think WOTC is capable of reacting that quickly to sudden leaks.

If they went through all this trouble, they probably were not expecting a leak.

And even if they were, I doubt their ability to simultaneously contact ALL sellers of the books. If anything, they will help major sellers like Amazon, B&N, etc, while hurting FLGS all over the country.


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## baberg

jackston2 said:
			
		

> Can someone post some cheap trinkets for the players to buy while playing shadowfell?



What do you mean by "cheap trinkets"?  Just standard items that might be found in the world?  You're pretty much looking at the same set of items as 3.X in that case - Lanterns, Adventurer's Kits, Ammo, Flasks, Rope... the only really interesting items under "adventuring gear" are the Everburning Torch (provides light as a torch but no heat, always on, infinite usage apparently) and Journeybread (fills you up for a day with only a few nibbles of bread).  Those items are 50gp each, Journeybread lasting for 10 days.



			
				Ipissimus said:
			
		

> The Skill Training feat vs. skill training from Multiclass feats: is there a difference? Is it just any one skill becoming trained on the first and selecting one from a limited list on the second?



That's right.  Take the Skill Training feat and you get training in any Skill you choose, and you can take this feat more than once.  Take a Multiclass feat and you get training in either a specific skill (Arcana for Wizard, Religion for Cleric, etc) or a skill on that class's Skill List.  But with the Multiclass feat you get the added benefits of multiclassing (at-will powers, etc) so it balances out.


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## Nytmare

Twizz Stonefist said:
			
		

> Basicly the 2 dinosaurs are a stegosaurus and an anklosaurus. Just imagine if they were vicious.



My sister was bit by an anklosaurus once.


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## Ipissimus

baberg said:
			
		

> That's right -snip-




Thanks, dude. You're a scholar and a gentleman.


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## Loincloth of Armour

Question oh knowledgeable ones:

For the low level teleport abilities of the eladrin and others, does it say anything about t-porting through physical barriers, or can a jail actually hold eladrins?


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## eleran

PrecociousApprentice said:
			
		

> In order to ease my mind on this whole illegal pdf thing, I went down to the local bookstore. It is a chain, so the guy didn't know the whole hubub going on. I told him that some people have gotten their books already and I was wondering if they had them in. I said I understand that they aren't supposed to be out till 6/6, but I would appreciate it if he could give me some info. He checked store records, and they are in stock, but not on the shelves until 6/6. I didn't pester him, because he was sorta doing me a favor to begin with.
> 
> So there are illegal copies going around, but the books have at least shipped to the retailers at this point. Some people already have legit copies. I am a little frustrated that WotC went to all this trouble to make sure that everyone got their books at the same time, and then the whole plan went to crap. This would all be OK if they would just say, "Since we screwed it up, we'll just release them early." Why is it that they would push good people to find illegal copies, even when the books are available to be sold? Sure, no one is forcing anyone to get the pdfs, but I understand those that do. Some people already got their books, and now it isn't fair. We should all beseach WotC to let the books be sold now.




I whole-heartedly disagree!!  You are merely suggesting that from now on, rather than a company attempt to set a release date and hope everything works right, instead they simply have to announce a product, wait long enough for the unscrupulous a**holes out there to find it and release it, then the company will go ahead and release.  You're arguing for letting the a**holes win.  And that is nothing but wrong.  

Instead what should be done, is to find a way to find all the a**holes, gather them in one place, and summarily skim off body parts until they recant their a**holish ways.  Then take one more body part to drive the point home.  

And don't go crying that it isn't fair.  At no time during my life on this planet did my parents ever sit me down and say, "Son, remember, life will be fair.  You will always get what is coming to you, and so will everyone else."


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## Rzach

Jail cells can hold Eladrins if the doors are solid and there is no way an Eladrin can see outside the cell. Teleport requires line of sight.

Later,
Rzach


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## PrecociousApprentice

eleran said:
			
		

> I whole-heartedly disagree!!  You are merely suggesting that from now on, rather than a company attempt to set a release date and hope everything works right, instead they simply have to announce a product, wait long enough for the unscrupulous a**holes out there to find it and release it, then the company will go ahead and release.  You're arguing for letting the a**holes win.  And that is nothing but wrong.
> 
> Instead what should be done, is to find a way to find all the a**holes, gather them in one place, and summarily skim off body parts until they recant their a**holish ways.  Then take one more body part to drive the point home.
> 
> And don't go crying that it isn't fair.  At no time during my life on this planet did my parents ever sit me down and say, "Son, remember, life will be fair.  You will always get what is coming to you, and so will everyone else."



You are right, I was just whining. At the same time, right now the a** holes win, no? It's not like I actually bugged the guy at the store. I can wait. I did look online for the torrent files. They are there. I didn't get them. But they are there. It is interesting how this is working out. The unscrupulous ones always win, at least in the short run. Now only honest gamers don't get to game. Some times it sucks to be honest.


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## eleran

PrecociousApprentice said:
			
		

> You are right, I was just whining. At the same time, right now the a** holes win, no? It's not like I actually bugged the guy at the store. I can wait. I did look online for the torrent files. They are there. I didn't get them. But they are there. It is interesting how this is working out. The unscrupulous ones always win, at least in the short run. Now only honest gamers don't get to game. Some times it sucks to be honest.




Totally agreed.  It does indeed suck to be honest sometimes.  But we get the added benefit of not having to worry much about landing in jail for other bad choices that our dishonesty would cause.  So, no cellmates named Bubba who ask you to use lipstick to draw **** on your back.  Unless thats what your in to.  Not that theres anything wrong with that...


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## eleran

Rzach said:
			
		

> Jail cells can hold Eladrins if the doors are solid and there is no way an Eladrin can see outside the cell. Teleport requires line of sight.
> 
> Later,
> Rzach





wow, color me surprised by that one.  And not terribly happy about it, but I will just have to deal.


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## Lurker37

Rzach said:
			
		

> Jail cells can hold Eladrins if the doors are solid and there is no way an Eladrin can see outside the cell. Teleport requires line of sight.




What about underground cells? Doesn't there have to be free space to walk through in the Feywild for the teleport to work, so Eladrin will not be able to teleport out of a traditional excavated sub-basement dungeon cell?


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## baberg

Lurker37 said:
			
		

> What about underground cells? Doesn't there have to be free space to walk through in the Feywild for the teleport to work, so Eladrin will not be able to teleport out of a traditional excavated sub-basement dungeon cell?



There's no crunch to support that.  Fey Step says "Teleport up to 5 squares" and then refers to the page for Teleport, which says "Unless a power or ritual specifies otherwise..." and then goes on to list that you must have LOS but not necessarily Line of Effect, can't move into an opposing square, and that you "disappear from the space you occupy and immediately appear in a new space you choose."

There's always Rule 0, but as a DM who is starting his PCs out in a dungeon cell, this is a bit problematic.  Or not - at least I know they'll get out.


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## FitzTheRuke

Lurker37 said:
			
		

> What about underground cells? Doesn't there have to be free space to walk through in the Feywild for the teleport to work, so Eladrin will not be able to teleport out of a traditional excavated sub-basement dungeon cell?




Personally, I've been actually describing what my Eladrin player sees while he's in the feywild. I have yet to actually stop him from pulling off the teleport in this way, but there was one time where he had to run down the stairs in front of a Formorian King yelling "Guards! Get that %&#& Eladrin!"

Fitz


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## hong

baberg said:
			
		

> There's always Rule 0, but as a DM who is starting his PCs out in a dungeon cell, this is a bit problematic.  Or not - at least I know they'll get out.




I'm planning to start my first 4E game with the PCs in jail, BECAUSE I know the eladrin can get out. It's all about providing opportunities to showboat.

Just like I'd throw lots of fireballs at the party, if a tiefling is present. These abilities are about accentuating the fact that tieflings and eladrin are not like normal people.


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## Mustrum_Ridcully

markusdark said:
			
		

> So, the 'official' pdf's of the books aren't out yet but apparently someone leaked the 'final copy' pdf's that were sent to the printers.  I know, I have seen them.
> 
> As for the hard copies - they have been sent.  Here's a photo of one guy with them (the black box is to remove 'inappropriate content' aka - giving the bird).



Another photo of a guy with the books and lacking a shoulder (conveniently hidden by a black box)? What's wrong with 4E?


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## arscott

hong said:
			
		

> I'm planning to start my first 4E game with the PCs in jail, BECAUSE I know the eladrin can get out. It's all about providing opportunities to showboat.
> 
> Just like I'd throw lots of fireballs at the party, if a tiefling is present. These abilities are about accentuating the fact that tieflings and eladrin are not like normal people.



Totally.  I did the same thing with the 4e preview game I've been running.  Both sessions went great so far--in one, the eladrin escaped with fey-step, and in the other, the wizard used mage hand to open the doors from outside.


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## DSRilk

> At no time during my life on this planet did my parents ever sit me down and say, "Son, remember, life will be fair.




Excepting, that as a parent, I do teach my kids that they should try to make it a more fair place.

IMO, everyone asking questions is helping enable this kind of behavior.  Yes, some people will still download, and some people were just lucky, but asking questions is just going to help drive more people to "be the cool guy with the answers."  It's similar to one of those "if no one took drugs, there would be no drug dealers" types of things.  Just a thought I wanted to toss out there.

So what would make this whole thing more fair?  Good question - life's a complicated mess.


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## Daniel D. Fox

My Buy.com shipment will arrive today! I did 1 day turnaround for shipping, and received the notice this morning by email.

Cancel your Amazon order - go to buy.com!


----------



## ExploderWizard

ROFL!!  When I first saw this thread I envisioned the OP as Frodo putting on the ring to find out that there are WAY more than nine Nazgul!!!


----------



## DerekSTheRed

Moniker said:
			
		

> My Buy.com shipment will arrive today! I did 1 day turnaround for shipping, and received the notice this morning by email.
> 
> Cancel your Amazon order - go to buy.com!




Or you can wait 10 days.  There's something to be said for delayed gratification.  Especially if delaying means supporting my FLGS which is the case for me.

Derek


----------



## Moon-Lancer

jaldaen said:
			
		

> Anyone willing to hand me the 1st level two-weapon fighting at-will power on a silver platter? Bueller?




its 2 attacks. don't add strength. Can i say this?


----------



## jaldaen

So from another thread I learned that the Ranger's Quary class feature increases its # of die by one at each tier of play, just like the rgoue (and I assume the Warlock)

Here's an associated question: Do any of the non-striker classes have class features which increase by level or tier? If so, what are they?

Cleric: Do channel divinity or healing word scale (okay this already scales, but does the 1d6 increase to 2d6 at paragon, etc...)
Fighter: Not certain what this could be.
Paladin: Channel Divinity... or something else
Warlord: Inspiring word?
Wizard: Not certain what they might get... perhaps their implement bonus?


----------



## jaldaen

Moon-Lancer said:
			
		

> its 2 attacks. don't add strength. Can i say this?




I think that's fine because its not actually copy-pasting the rules, but I'll let a mod decide how much is too much.

Thanks by btw...


----------



## Rechan

jaldaen said:
			
		

> Paladin: Channel Divinity... or something else



Yes. The base damage your Divine Challenge does raises with tier of play.

I didn't notice any other change. HOwever, many powers change damage when you go to Epic.


----------



## baberg

jaldaen said:
			
		

> Here's an associated question: Do any of the non-striker classes have class features which increase by level or tier? If so, what are they?



Yes.  Every Class's At-Will powers (which you only get at first level) increase from 1[W] + bonuses to 2[W] + bonuses at level 21, including Strikers.  

Warlock's Curse does increase its die damage as you go up each tier (add 1d6 each tier).

Cleric's Healing Word increases in power every 10 levels.  Turn Undead increases power every 5 levels (roughly - levels 1, 5, 11, 15, 21, 25)

Fighters don't seem to get anything that increases like that.

Paladin's Divine Challenge gets power bumps every 10 levels.

Warlord's Inspiring Word gets increases every 5ish levels (1, 6, 11, 16, 21, 26)

Wizards get additional "free" rituals they can scribe into their spellbooks at 1, 5, 11, 15, 21, 25.


----------



## daddystabz

I put an order through Buy.com last night at around 10pm eastern and it changed in status last night to "sent to warehouse" but it has been saying that all day today too and has not been sent to shipping yet.  I even ordered 2 business day express shipping.  I am worried and wondering if maybe they caught the mistake and are holding new orders now till the release date.  Their site also says that they do not charge your card until the item ships but my card has already been charged in full.


----------



## daddystabz

Anyone else in the same boat as me as stated in the above reply by me?


----------

