# LOST - Wednesday 10/05/05 9:00 PM EDT



## fett527 (Oct 5, 2005)

http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index.html



> Next Episode:
> Wednesday, Oct. 5, 9/8c
> "Orientation"
> Jack, Locke and Kate learn more secrets about the hatch. Meanwhile, after being beaten and taken captive, Sawyer, Michael and Jin wonder if their captors are fellow survivors or the dreaded "Others."


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 5, 2005)

Mmm.  Locke-centric?  You're soaking in it.

I remember reading how the first three eps would take place over the first 24 hours of the hatch's opening, so maybe this will be the completion of that arc, where we'll get to learn everything about it.  

Yeah right.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 5, 2005)

> Yeah right.




But I don't want to learn everything!  Just enough.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 5, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> But I don't want to learn everything!  Just enough.




to be confused and frustrated?

all though the tough guys of lost (the guys that were on the boat) are obviously all wimps since they get taken out by whomever these other people are.  I mean the punch they show in the preview is so telegraphed it just looks terrible.


----------



## KaosDevice (Oct 5, 2005)

Hopefully this episode will be far less heavilly flashback saturated than last weeks'.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 5, 2005)

KaosDevice said:
			
		

> Hopefully this episode will be far less heavilly flashback saturated than last weeks'.




but we have to see how Sawyer's hangnail when he was 16 has a direct impact of him being captured....

or we get a flashback of the new female character that the meet in the prison......


----------



## KaosDevice (Oct 5, 2005)

Sorry, I should have been more clear, I meant flashbacks to the previous week's episode.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 5, 2005)

Okay, my bad on that.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 5, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> but we have to see how Sawyer's hangnail when he was 16 has a direct impact of him being captured....
> 
> or we get a flashback of the new female character that the meet in the prison......




Maybe you should take a week off Crothian.  Why are you still watching with the way you bash it?


----------



## Crothian (Oct 5, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Maybe you should take a week off Crothian.  Why are you still watching with the way you bash it?




actually, this is pretty light bashing.  there are good things the show does but bad things as well.  As I said last year since everyone else covers the good, I see no reason to repat that so I take the area no one covers.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 5, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> actually, this is pretty light bashing.  there are good things the show does but bad things as well.  As I said last year since everyone else covers the good, I see no reason to repat that so I take the area no one covers.




I remember you saying that, but it ... well ok.  I'll leave it there.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 5, 2005)

Fett, if you want to give me  over my aproach, you can


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 6, 2005)

*Holy crap, holy crap, holy crap!*

Google map of the Lost island?  Check out those coordinates.

http://tinyurl.com/c2hxf


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

when asked what's going to happen about the timer counting down, what was Desmond's response?


----------



## Dagger75 (Oct 6, 2005)

I hope that orientation film is more exciting that ones I usally watch at work.  Granted I never worked for an employer that had its own sharks (with freakin laser).


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

anyone catch the date at the end of the film?


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Wow, they are stupid


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

*Jin*

Heh, Since when can Jin Speak perfect English?

Dubya


----------



## Dagger75 (Oct 6, 2005)

Cool, Lela (Futurama) was on that episode.  I hope Jin has some flashbacks in the next episode and was he speaking da english?


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> anyone catch the date at the end of the film?




1980


----------



## shaylon (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> anyone catch the date at the end of the film?




The Hanso film?  1980.  Am I missing something?

-Shay


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> Cool, Lela (Futurama) was on that episode.  I hope Jin has some flashbacks in the next episode and was he speaking da english?




Ever see _Married With Children_?


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

I loved Married With Children.  Al Bundy is the best.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> The Hanso film?  1980.  Am I missing something?
> 
> -Shay




Nope


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Hmmm.  The Hanso guy was labeled, among other things, as a "munitions magnate".


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> Heh, Since when can Jin Speak perfect English?
> 
> Dubya




did a double take there myself.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> The Hanso film?  1980.  Am I missing something?
> 
> -Shay




No, I missed it and was curious.  

Let me be the first to say, they are all doomed.  It is a hopeless show that will not end in anything good.  They basically told us that much in this episode.  University of Michigan is a the plague that will kill them all!!!!


----------



## shaylon (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> did a double take there myself.




Yeah that is pretty dumb.  I have a hard time with this.  The guy could speak perfect English the whole time but he decided it was best to keep it a secret even after they took off on the boat?

Not buying this storyline at all.

-Shay


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

So, I can't be the only person that knew the girl in the pit was going to be a plant?  THe faith angle again was okay, but they have it wrong.  Faith woiks both ways, you can have faith that the numbers mean something and faith that they don't.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> No, I missed it and was curious.
> 
> Let me be the first to say, they are all doomed.  It is a hopeless show that will not end in anything good.  They basically told us that much in this episode.  University of Michigan is a the plague that will kill them all!!!!




Beat me to the punch Crothian!  I was gonna say something more like:

Of couse the end of the world would come from UM!  It is teh EEEEEEEEEEEVIL!


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

I am starting to think that Sun's fathers company has something to do with the Dharma Project.  Maybe maybe not.  Just thinking out loud.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, I can't be the only person that knew the girl in the pit was going to be a plant?  THe faith angle again was okay, but they have it wrong.  Faith woiks both ways, you can have faith that the numbers mean something and faith that they don't.



Or in Hurley's case, faith that they are BAD!

"You know what.  On second thought, go ahead.  Do your thing"


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> I am starting to think that Sun's fathers company has something to do with the Dharma Project.  Maybe maybe not.  Just thinking out loud.




wouldn't doubt it, they liker conecting things that don't matter


----------



## shaylon (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> University of Michigan is a the plague that will kill them all!!!!




It isn't surprising to me.  A bunch of wacko's from UM decide to move all the geniuses on some strange island and then there is an "incident".  I am just surprised to hear that anyone followed them!    

Just kidding it is actually a great school from what I hear.

Oh and did you notice that in the video they discussed that they were trying to study all sorts of science and there were Polar Bears playing in a grassy area.  Did they genetically mutate polar bears to survive in warm climates?  I wonder what the CR would be for one of those.

-Shay


----------



## Dagger75 (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Ever see _Married With Children_?




Of course I have.  Been watching Adult Swim for a while so now I when I hear her I think of Lela.

 And I agree if ends up understanding english and speaking it perfectly that will be very stupid.  There was no point for him to keep that secret after his wife revealed that she could speak english.


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

Anyone else catch the reference to BF Skinner? Skinner's Box. Conditioned response. Cool.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> ... And I agree if ends up understanding english and speaking it perfectly that will be very stupid.  There was no point for him to keep that secret after his wife revealed that she could speak english.




Don't really have a problem with it yet.  May be an explanation for it.  could simply be he wanted to be underestimated in all situations.  Good way to accomplish it.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Anyone else catch the reference to BF Skinner? Skinner's Box. Conditioned response. Cool.



The students followed the teachings of BF Skinner yes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/B._F._Skinner


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

More and more questions, it had me, hook, line and sinker but I really want some answers.  The film did not tell you crap, a lot we had already figured out.


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Wow, they are stupid




Maybe you'd like Veronica Mars better?

Anyway, great episode. We do get a lot of answers about what's up, or strong hints that way. Social and psychological experimentation, parasychology research. Electromagnetic research. It seems at least one, maybe two more stations on the island. Base didn't blow up like the previous trailer kinda led us to beleive. A turning point in the Locke/Jack struggle? Is Jack finally coming apart at the seams?

Interesting that Hurley was willing to let the wrong number go in. 

Next week: Food and Showers.


----------



## CrusaderX (Oct 6, 2005)

Is Peggy Bundy Helen supposed to be the same character as Locke's phone-sex friend Helen?


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Is Peggy Bundy Helen supposed to be the same character as Locke's phone-sex friend Helen?




Could be.



			
				ABC's Lost Site said:
			
		

> Deep in the jungle, Locke has found the boar trail. They're close. He sends Michael and Kate out to surround the beast, but it turns on them and charges. Michael is gored in the leg and as Kate helps him up she calls to Locke to see if he is okay. "I'm fine, Helen, I just got the wind knocked out of me." Who is Helen?
> 
> In FLASHBACK, we see Locke enjoying an intimate conversation with "Helen" over the phone. He has a surprise for her — he finally saved up the money to go to Australia and take that authentic aboriginal walkabout. And guess what? He bought two tickets. Sadly, we learn that Helen doesn't share the same feelings for Locke as he does for her.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> Oh and did you notice that in the video they discussed that they were trying to study all sorts of science and there were Polar Bears playing in a grassy area.  Did they genetically mutate polar bears to survive in warm climates?  I wonder what the CR would be for one of those.
> 
> -Shay




I don't know if the speed of the film threw you off, but I have rewatched the film part and there is definitely the normal ice/water arctic environment in the shot of the polar bears.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

CrusaderX said:
			
		

> Is Peggy Bundy Helen supposed to be the same character as Locke's phone-sex friend Helen?



Maybe someone with the DVDs from the first season could do a voice confirmation.  I believe we do hear her voice.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Looking for connections to Henry James as his book "The Turn of the Screw" was displayed quite openly when they were getting the film.  This is interesting:



> James wrote The Turn of the Screw in 1897, at a low point in his life....Like many writers and intellectuals of the time, James was fascinated by “spiritual phenomena,” a field that was taken very seriously and was the subject of much “scientific” inquiry. The field remained popular even after the unmasking of the Fox sisters, whose claims of being able to communicate with the spirit world had started the craze for spiritualism in the 1840s. Henry James, Sr., and William James were both members of the Society for Psychical Research, and William served as its president from 1894 to 1896.




http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/screw/


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Maybe you'd like Veronica Mars better?




not aired in that timeslot here.  Oh, I'm not going anywhere but you might have better luck not dancing around the issue of me bothering you if that's was some ultra subtle hint that I should leave this thread or something.  



> Anyway, great episode. We do get a lot of answers about what's up, or strong hints that way. Social and psychological experimentation, parasychology research. Electromagnetic research. It seems at least one, maybe two more stations on the island. Base didn't blow up like the previous trailer kinda led us to beleive. A turning point in the Locke/Jack struggle? Is Jack finally coming apart at the seams?
> 
> Interesting that Hurley was willing to let the wrong number go in.
> 
> Next week: Food and Showers.




The episode was okay, but still they made stupid mistakes.  The distress singla they found last year, how long had that been going on?  Perhpas we can actually start putting together a time line of sorts.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Could be.




Actually, by the way they have Hlene in quotes in that snippit makes me beleive that Locke asked here to go by that name.


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

Who was in the picture that Jack looked at in the bunker?  I didn't get a good look at it.  was it a man and woman or woman and woman.  The way the Jack and Des scene went when Des said they weren't married anymore made me think it was someone they both knew.


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Maybe someone with the DVDs from the first season could do a voice confirmation.  I believe we do hear her voice.




I don't think it was. I'm pretty sure it was a phone sex worker named Helen. Which would actually make sense. Locke, somehow, stops seeing Helen (wonder if it was an accident and that's where he became paralyzed). Anyway, he gets hold of "Helen" and, since he has a problem letting go, becomes infatuated.

When he crashes and realizes he can walk, he finally understands what it is to "have faith" and now is taking it to an extreme (not that I don't agree with it but he and Jacke are both extremes on opposite ends of the spectrum).


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Maybe someone with the DVDs from the first season could do a voice confirmation.  I believe we do hear her voice.




She is not credited on any earlier episode of Lost.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

This book, ECG Workout was also on the shelf.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> She is not credited on any earlier episode of Lost.



They could have left her off or, more likely, he wanted to call the phone line girl Helen.  Makes more sense as I try to recall the conversations he had.


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> not aired in that timeslot here.  Oh, I'm not going anywhere but you might have better luck not dancing around the issue of me bothering you if that's was some ultra subtle hint that I should leave this thread or something.  .




Well, it was just a suggestion if the situations and such aren't to your liking, but since you invited me to: yes, please. If every other post is going to be some semi-cutey bash just because things haven't been revealed as fast as you like, by all means, please leave and don't come back.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> This book, ECG Workout was also on the shelf.



As far as I can tell so far, the earliest publication date for the 1st edition of this book is 1985.  Trying to help with timeline maybe.

EDIT: I had thought that maybe Desmond had brought this book with him, but then why would he have a book with examples of ECGs to read?  Seems more likely to be a part of the facility.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Well, it was just a suggestion if the situations and such aren't to your liking, but since you invited me to: yes, please. If every other post is going to be some semi-cutey bash just because things haven't been revealed as fast as you like, by all means, please leave and don't come back.




well, I'm not going to but at least you stepped up to the bag.  

I like the show, I like it a lot.  But most of the threads last year and this year always focus on the greatness of it.  I can't look at something like that, so while everyone else concentrates on how great it is I'm going to nit pick it.  I could go on about the good parts of the show, but that is already being done.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> They could have left her off or, more likely, he wanted to call the phone line girl Helen.  Makes more sense as I try to recall the conversations he had.




I checked internet movie database, and those guys are usually pretty good with this sort of thing but they didn't listy her there.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> well, I'm not going to but at least you stepped up to the bag.
> 
> I like the show, I like it a lot.  But most of the threads last year and this year always focus on the greatness of it.  I can't look at something like that, so while everyone else concentrates on how great it is I'm going to nit pick it.  I could go on about the good parts of the show, but that is already being done.



You may have to start putting some kind of disclaimer.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> Who was in the picture that Jack looked at in the bunker?  I didn't get a good look at it.  was it a man and woman or woman and woman.  The way the Jack and Des scene went when Des said they weren't married anymore made me think it was someone they both knew.




I thought it was desmond and some woman, but I really didn't get a great look


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

when I saw it I instantly thought that it was Des and Sarah.  When Jack saw it he looked at it kinda funny, I thought.  But I didn't get a good look.


----------



## Rel (Oct 6, 2005)

I think that hands down the best line of the episode was Locke saying (after watching the "Orientation" film), "We need to watch that again!"

Because you know that all over the country people are frame-by-framing that bad boy right this very minute.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> when I saw it I instantly thought that it was Des and Sarah.  When Jack saw it he looked at it kinda funny, I thought.  But I didn't get a good look.




Desmond and a woman and Jack definitely does a little double-take.  My recording off the DVR isn't clear enough for me to say whether or not it's Sarah in the picture.


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I think that hands down the best line of the episode was Locke saying (after watching the "Orientation" film), "We need to watch that again!"
> 
> Because you know that all over the country people are frame-by-framing that bad boy right this very minute.




Actually, I think the best line of the night was when Jin spoke English.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Actually, I think the best line of the night was when Jin spoke English.




eh, it was in the preview for next week.....and I'm expecting it to actually be something other then what we think


----------



## Richards (Oct 6, 2005)

Here's a question for you: in the "Orientation" film, there's a part where the camera zooms in on a figure in a building (we see him, rather blurrily, through a window).  My wife says she thought he looked like Jack's dad.  Can anyone confirm or refute that?  (I didn't get a good enough look to say one way or the other.)

Johnathan


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

Did anyone notice a book that Desmond had. It went by quick but i think it was a copy of The Third Policeman.  That book was mentioned by one of the produces as being inportant to the main plot.


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Richards said:
			
		

> Here's a question for you: in the "Orientation" film, there's a part where the camera zooms in on a figure in a building (we see him, rather blurrily, through a window).  My wife says she thought he looked like Jack's dad.  Can anyone confirm or refute that?  (I didn't get a good enough look to say one way or the other.)
> 
> Johnathan




it did resemble him...good thought


----------



## Pants (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Don't really have a problem with it yet.  May be an explanation for it.  could simply be he wanted to be underestimated in all situations.  Good way to accomplish it.



Jin has managed to learn some rudimentary English, is it that hard to believe that he might know the plane's number in English too? 

Definitely a step up from last week's nosedive.  Looks like the 'others' really are from the tail section.

This episode kinda sorta explains the fricken' laser sharks from the previous episode. Genetic manipulation/screwing with was one of the parts of the Dharma project no?


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> Did anyone notice a book that Desmond had. It went by quick but i think it was a copy of The Third Policeman.  That book was mentioned by one of the produces as being inportant to the main plot.




isn't that book a comedy?  kinda not funny since Lost is anything but


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Pants said:
			
		

> Definitely a step up from last week's nosedive.  Looks like the 'others' really are from the tail section.




I don't think they are the Others, those guys have a boat.  I think its just people from the tail section


----------



## Pants (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't think they are the Others, those guys have a boat.  I think its just people from the tail section



Hence why I put apostrophes around the word.


----------



## Richards (Oct 6, 2005)

If nothing else, this episode really made me feel sorry for Desmond.  Poor sucker, getting an hour and a half of sleep at a time for how long now?  And probably just because some "free thinkers" wanted to see how long they could get their guinea pig to jump through hoops for them?  The profanity filter's going to clean up the last half of the word, but the first word to come to me about his situation was "mind."

Johnathan


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Richards said:
			
		

> If nothing else, this episode really made me feel sorry for Desmond.  Poor sucker, getting an hour and a half of sleep at a time for how long now?  And probably just because some "free thinkers" wanted to see how long they could get their guinea pig to jump through hoops for them?  The profanity filter's going to clean up the last half of the word, but the first word to come to me about his situation was "mind."
> 
> Johnathan




I don't see why he did it.  And did he say what happened to the other guy that showed him what to do.


----------



## Dubya (Oct 6, 2005)

I have never read the book.  I just read that the book was to have something to do with the show.  I read it on the Lost TV forums.  

here is a quote from the Lost TV forum

"I also noticed that Desmond was reading the book The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien which is about "the nature of time, death and existence" according to the description on barnes and noble. Interesting!"


----------



## Richards (Oct 6, 2005)

> And did he say what happened to the other guy that showed him what to do.



Only that he had died.

Johnathan


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> I have never read the book.  I just read that the book was to have something to do with the show.  I read it on the Lost TV forums.
> 
> here is a quote from the Lost TV forum
> 
> "I also noticed that Desmond was reading the book The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brien which is about "the nature of time, death and existence" according to the description on barnes and noble. Interesting!"




Here's a better description.

http://www.litencyc.com/php/sworks.php?rec=true&UID=7924

Here's the ending of the book in spoilers for those who decide to read it.

[sblock]The narrator eventually escapes from the police station (with the help of an army of one-legged men) and passes Mathers' house on his way home. At this stage the quest for the black box had almost been forgotten, but he makes one more attempt at recovering it. Inside the house – or to be more accurate, inside the walls of the house – he discovers the station of the third policeman of the title, Policeman Fox, who has custody of the black box. Fox reveals that the box does not contain money, but “omnium”, a substance MacCruiskeen once described as: “the essential inherent interior essence which is hidden in the root of the kernel of everything” (113), but which is literally everything one desires. Policeman Fox has been using it to take the muck off his leggings and to boil his eggs just right, but naturally the narrator has more grandiose visions of his future omnipotence. He gleefully returns home with the black box, where he finds a much older John Divney who is surprisingly disturbed by the narrator's appearance: “He said I was not there. He said I was dead. He said that what he had put under the boards in the big house was not the black box but a mine, a bomb. It had gone up when I touched it […] I was dead. He screamed at me to keep away. I was dead for sixteen years.” (203)

The shock of seeing his dead friend kills Divney, and the confused narrator turns back to the road. At this point the narrative also turns back on itself, replicating the narrator's first approach to the peculiar police station, only this time he is accompanied by John Divney. Both are doomed to the cyclical quest for the black box. The novel ends with Sergeant Pluck's habitual refrain: “Is it about a bicycle?” (206). [/sblock]


----------



## Richards (Oct 6, 2005)

Actually, it looks like I misspoke.  My wife said that the figure in the window looked like Locke's dad, not Jack's.  (I'd swear she said Jack, though.)  Locke's dad is pretty rich, so he'd certainly have enough money to be playing around with island genetic and psychological experiments if he wanted to.  Plus, he likes using people, and I could see him setting up something like a "push this button every 108 minutes or the world explodes" kind of deal for kicks.

Johnathan


----------



## Crothian (Oct 6, 2005)

Richards said:
			
		

> Actually, it looks like I misspoke.  My wife said that the figure in the window looked like Locke's dad, not Jack's.  (I'd swear she said Jack, though.)  Locke's dad is pretty rich, so he'd certainly have enough money to be playing around with island genetic and psychological experiments if he wanted to.  Plus, he likes using people, and I could see him setting up something like a "push this button every 108 minutes or the world explodes" kind of deal for kicks.
> 
> Johnathan




I don't think it relaly looked like Locke's dad, that would have been some con


----------



## David Howery (Oct 6, 2005)

Concerning the possible 'others':  Rodriguez is definitely from the plane.  I think the black guy who's so handy with the club is a Nigerian character being added to the cast (TV Guide had something about him a couple issues ago), and he probably has something to do with the crashed plane full of drugs.  My guess is that he has been on the island for several years (do we know when the plane crashed?), and that Rodriguez and the others in the group are from the plane, and they all hooked up somehow in the past 40+ days....


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 6, 2005)

Munitions magnate, not munitions magnet. The latter would be handy on the battlefield, though.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 6, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Google map of the Lost island?  Check out those coordinates.
> 
> http://tinyurl.com/c2hxf



Hmm. Well, those are pretty mangled coordinates, what with the 23 being cut in half by a decimal point. It is in a good spot, though.

More likely, coordinate-wise, is somewhere in Africa, at 4 degrees, 8 minutes, 15 seconds, and 16 degrees, 23 minutes, 42 seconds. Even if you make either of them (or both) negative, it's still pretty much Africa or off its coast, between Africa and South America. Which makes much less sense.


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 6, 2005)

Though there is a nifty little island
 not far from the coordinates you gave.


----------



## Banshee16 (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> Heh, Since when can Jin Speak perfect English?
> 
> Dubya




I didn't see him speak English perfectly.  He was doing lots of pantomiming, and got out "Udders", several times.  Unless I missed something..

Banshee


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Oct 6, 2005)

Ok, so this is really fracking freaky....

I'm eating chinese food while watching lost. I open up a fortune cookie, and....guess what the numbers on the back were?

You guessed it! 4 8 15 16 23 42........

Does this mean i'm cursed?


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 6, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> Ok, so this is really fracking freaky....
> 
> I'm eating chinese food while watching lost. I open up a fortune cookie, and....guess what the numbers on the back were?
> 
> ...



 Why don't you play them in the Power Ball, see what happens?

Just don't hold any press conferences with elderly relatives nearby when you win.


----------



## bodhi (Oct 6, 2005)

Dubya said:
			
		

> Heh, Since when can Jin Speak perfect English?




I'm guessing it's a dream/vision sequence. The owls are not what they seem, you are the hand,  yadda yadda.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Oct 6, 2005)

So here are my thoughts...

In Season 1, when Hurly gets those numbers from the guy in the psych ward, I think the crazy guy may have been on the island pushing those numbers into the computer.  Think about it.  If he was on the island, by himself, for years, pushing the same set of numbers in every 108 minutes, you might go crazy and constantly repeat them too...

I think "the others" also have something to do with the hatch.  Perhaps they were experimented on and went crazy.  Didn't they say "something went wrong" or "there was an accident" in the Orientation film?

Michelle Rodriguez being on the side of "the others" really got me.  Did not see that coming at all.  But why?  Is she really with them?  If so, was she ever on the plane to begin with?  Did she have something to do with the crash?  I did read that she is a possibly love interest for Jack later on, so it will be interesting to see how they weave that one.

I wonder why there was no mention of the "smoke" creature lately?  Locke, Jack, Kate and Hurly all saw it.  I think maybe it has something to do with the experiements from the hatch?  Didn't they mention they were doing some sort of electro-magnetic experiments down there as well?


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 6, 2005)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> In Season 1, when Hurly gets those numbers from the guy in the psych ward, I think the crazy guy may have been on the island pushing those numbers into the computer.  Think about it.  If he was on the island, by himself, for years, pushing the same set of numbers in every 108 minutes, you might go crazy and constantly repeat them too...



Aye, I was just saying that to a friend of mine yesterday. Seems logical to me, anyway.



> Michelle Rodriguez being on the side of "the others" really got me.  Did not see that coming at all.  But why?  Is she really with them?  If so, was she ever on the plane to begin with?  Did she have something to do with the crash?  I did read that she is a possibly love interest for Jack later on, so it will be interesting to see how they weave that one.



Well... the "others" she's sided with are the tail section survivors, and based on all the crazy stuff the mid-section people have dealt with, I'm sure the tail section folks are justifiably paranoid. Do you not think that the people she was with are just more survivors? It certainly makes the most sense.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

The station is number 3 of X stations on the island, each should be manned and stocked with the same materials.

The Island is/was a research center - which leads us to think there MAY be a "center/complex" on the island, maybe filled with people know as the 'others'.  This center was working on a number of different things to better mankind, sure they went off to an island so they did not have to have too many safe guards and do what they please and had an opps.  

The people from the tail act just like the people from the front of the plane.  Michelle Rodriguez is more than likely their leader and I will go as far to say a cop or such, her in the pit was such a plant.   Bet the big black guy is Rose's husband and when he learn she is alive will help the three back to the others...

I am still not sure about the use of the phase 'others' it could be anything and there are too many ways to look at it, the other people on the plane/the island who knows.


----------



## BrooklynKnight (Oct 6, 2005)

I think that it's the 3rd facility of those worldwide, NOT on the island.

I agree about the black dude though.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Banshee16 said:
			
		

> I didn't see him speak English perfectly.  He was doing lots of pantomiming, and got out "Udders", several times.  Unless I missed something..
> 
> Banshee




What's being referred to was a flash from the scenes for next week's episode.  He speaks a sentence of clear English .


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> ...Michelle Rodriguez being on the side of "the others" really got me.  Did not see that coming at all.  But why?  Is she really with them?  If so, was she ever on the plane to begin with?  Did she have something to do with the crash?  I did read that she is a possibly love interest for Jack later on, so it will be interesting to see how they weave that one...




Well, she was in the airport lounge talking/flirting with Jack so I think it's safe to assume she was on the plane.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> She is not credited on any earlier episode of Lost.




Also, didn't mean to say that I remembered Katy Segal's voice, just that we could hear the woman's voice he was talking to.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

So, is Walt's ghostly appearance and message to Shannon related to the computer?


----------



## Frostmarrow (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Looking for connections to Henry James as his book "The Turn of the Screw" was displayed quite openly when they were getting the film.  This is interesting:
> 
> 
> 
> http://www.sparknotes.com/lit/screw/




Cohen of OC was reading this very book in a recent episode. Completetly unrelated for sure but anyway-


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

http://www.thehansofoundation.org


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> So, is Walt's ghostly appearance and message to Shannon related to the computer?



Maybe, maybe not - I don't think Walt would use the term "button" for a keyboard key, it is a language issue and Walt is a kid of the computer generation, so I think there is a true button somewhere that Shannon will come across.


----------



## jasper (Oct 6, 2005)

I want to know who stocking the store room. Deserted island with fresh candy bars?
Me and my wife agree it was a mind game with the computer but fought over it because I would raid the bunker and move the supplies out to the beach and then just let the countdown expire.
Why did Jack tell Desmond to go to beach to find the other survivors?
Ok show last night.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> http://www.thehansofoundation.org



some interesting links there...


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Another question:  Why didn't they show us where the other door out of the hatch leads?  I assume just dramatic effect, but who knows.  And did anyone see "Quarantine" on that door?


----------



## Fiery James (Oct 6, 2005)

*Skinner Box*

Well, I guess they've revealed a lot.

They've created a skinner experiment.

Small rewards for those who keep pressing the button.  Psychological testing.  Let's see how long they keep pressing the button.

Of course, they've done a good job distracting the test subjects!  They don't even know they're involved in the experiment!

- James (who gets it now).


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Another question:  Why didn't they show us where the other door out of the hatch leads?  I assume just dramatic effect, but who knows.  And did anyone see "Quarantine" on that door?



Did not see it but not sure it was not there as it looked to be a double hatch system.  

Another thought, Desmond could be a catalyst, an outside element throw in to speed up the experiment, he supplies information (true or false) to generate a reaction.  This goes back to there being moles amongs the group.  

Desmond exits stage left, going where?  What does he know, even if he did not get out much?  Is there a map inside the station, other tidbits?


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

I am curious as to why Jack became so violently angry with Locke about the numbers. If Jack didn't believe him, just push the danged button to placate him. Don't act like you're doing him this big favor. I can see being angry with Desmond since he pulled a gun and threatened to kill them, but so far, if it hadn't been for Locke, they would all be sitting in the caves or on the beach waiting to die. Jack is a very good leader but he's only led enough to keep them alive. Locke is the one searching out things and finding out what's going on with the island.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

Fiery James said:
			
		

> Of course, they've done a good job distracting the test subjects!  They don't even know they're involved in the experiment!
> 
> - James (who gets it now).




Except Jack, who MAY know what it is and that is why he is acting the way he is - he is looking for a way out of the box, this also mean he does not trust anyone else in the box with him!


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> The people from the tail act just like the people from the front of the plane.  Michelle Rodriguez is more than likely their leader and I will go as far to say a cop or such, her in the pit was such a plant.   Bet the big black guy is Rose's husband and when he learn she is alive will help the three back to the others...



I think he is to young to be her husband. He's probably just another passenger.


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Except Jack, who MAY know what it is and that is why he is acting the way he is - he is looking for a way out of the box.




I have a feeling that Jack has been burned by "faith." One scenario I was talking about with my wife was perhaps Jack's wife either died or left him. In either case, maybe Jack feels betrayed by the "miracle" that occured to allow her to walk again, since he did consider it a miracle. That would explain his attitude towards not believing in what he can't explain.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

Anyone have a screen clip of the picture in the bunker of Des (?) & girl?


----------



## Fiery James (Oct 6, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Except Jack, who MAY know what it is and that is why he is acting the way he is - he is looking for a way out of the box.





Jack is part of the distraction.

_WE_ are the experimental group.  _WE_ are the ones pressing the button -- every wednesday at 9:00!



- JB


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I have a feeling that Jack has been burned by "faith." One scenario I was talking about with my wife was perhaps Jack's wife either died or left him. In either case, maybe Jack feels betrayed by the "miracle" that occured to allow her to walk again, since he did consider it a miracle. That would explain his attitude towards not believing in what he can't explain.




I was thinking along those lines as well. Maybe she realized she did not love him, but was only infatuated with him becuase he helped her walk again, and went back to her fiance. That would meke me loose faith.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

http://www.dharmaindustries.com/


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 6, 2005)

So the mysterious Hanso Foundation funds research that may or may not be the source of many of the islands strange happenings.  I maintain that this still jibes with my meta-theory, that whatever brought the Hanso Foundation to the island is unrelated to them (i.e. the island is a nexus).

Rosseau clearly mentioned a central facility that the Others had taken over (but apparently had failed to find/disable her distress message, since that's where it was broadcasting from).  Was Rosseau's original hideout a substation?  Is she hanging out in a similar substation to Desmond's somewhere else on the island?  

My guess is now this:  Ethan and the Others are the remains of the failed experiment, turned militant.  The device may be holding them in check in some fashion.  Why 108 minutes, though?  What if they opened a portal to somewhere else, and whatever on the other side is possessing the Others, mistakenly interpereted by some on the island as a disease?

Great stuff to provide for new speculation, this episode.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Anyone have a screen clip of the picture in the bunker of Des (?) & girl?




You can look here:  http://lost-media.com/modules.php?name=coppermine&file=displayimage&album=737&pos=320 but the picture is very dark.  I tried with the DVR and sound it too dark to make out as well.

EDIT:  A lightened jpg image of the pic:  http://tinypic.com/ea5s88.jpg Not sure if what's been done has warped the image at all, but that does not look like Sarah.  It's possible Jack's incredulity was due to something else.  Maybe because it's Sydney in the background?


----------



## Rel (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> http://www.dharmaindustries.com/




Has anybody noticed how the symbols around the edge of the Dharma logo are not all the same?  I'll bet there is a pattern to them that somehow interacts with the "numbers".  I've tried counting around the edges a bit but have come up with nothing I feel is compelling.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Rampant speculation abounds from other sources:

Michael is in the film during the lecture in the front row on the left.

The Others on the boat that take Walt are the couple form the film.

Locke's "father" is Hanso.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

I thought the film showed 3 of 8 at the bottom. I also remember the guy saying you are working at station 3 called "the swan". Leading me to believe that the other stations are named after the other animals


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 6, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Anyone have a screen clip of the picture in the bunker of Des (?) & girl?




Right  here.  Click on the picture there to see a large screen capture.

Here's a screen capture for episode 1x20 "Do No Harm" of Sara, Jack's ex-wife.

I've gone into photoshop and brightened up the picture that is linked above for comparison purposes....and I think (emphasis: THINK) that it is Sarah in both pictures, or someone who looks pretty close...it's really hard to tell.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> http://www.thehansofoundation.org




I like. It's got a pick of Hanso.



			
				fett527 said:
			
		

> http://www.dharmaindustries.com/




Every time I tried to get in, it stopped me (after a funny little graphic played) and said the number was wrong and access was deneyed. I should not have bought so much of their stock...


----------



## reveal (Oct 6, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Right  here.  Click on the picture there to see a large screen capture.
> 
> Here's a screen capture for episode 1x20 "Do No Harm" of Sara, Jack's ex-wife.
> 
> I've gone into photoshop and brightened up the picture that is linked above for comparison purposes....and I think (emphasis: THINK) that it is Sarah in both pictures, or someone who looks pretty close...it's really hard to tell.




Looking at the lightened photo fett527 edited into his post above, the two are similar insofar as the both are blonde but that's about it.


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 6, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I thought the film showed 3 of 8 at the bottom. I also remember the guy saying you are working at station 3 called "the swan". Leading me to believe that the other stations are named after the other animals




3 of 6, I thought.  I could have sworn they specifically mentioned 6 stations in the film, too.  The shark had a different symbol at the center, btw: it was just a straight horizontal black line.


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Looking at the lightened photo fett527 edited into his post above, the two are similar insofar as the both are blonde but that's about it.




Actually, they have the same facial structure (cheekbones, eyebrows).  Skintone is hard to tell from the lighting, and a real problem with Sara is that most of the time we see her, her face is bruised, covered or made-up for the wedding.  I wouldn't lay money that it's her, but she sure looks similar to me.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

The actress in Desmonds picture is Cynthia Watros. Her character is Libby.


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 6, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> I have a feeling that Jack has been burned by "faith." One scenario I was talking about with my wife was perhaps Jack's wife either died or left him. In either case, maybe Jack feels betrayed by the "miracle" that occured to allow her to walk again, since he did consider it a miracle. That would explain his attitude towards not believing in what he can't explain.




I was wondering that, yeah. I think that whole little scene in the bunker was Locke trying to get some edge over Jack, since he knows Jack is the linchpin to control over this entire group. Control Jack, you control the rest. He's been deprived of the people he was gathering around him (Walt, Boone, possibly Charlie), so.. maybe he's trying a different tack. Jack knows this or at least suspects it, from what he said to Kate about 'We may have a Locke problem'. 

So now we have the idea of both Locke and Jack having lost the person they loved, both having extreme father issues. Locke able to give up one obsession, only to find another one? From his phone conversations with the phone sex woman he was calling 'Helen', it seems he lost Helen later and was obsessing over her. 

Could just be that Locke's gone quietly nuts. Whatever he saw, which may or may not be the security system, affected him so strongly that he hasn't been the same since.


----------



## Chaldfont (Oct 6, 2005)

The bars on the Dharma Industries symbol look like I Ching hexagrams to me. In fact, they are the 8 trigrams used to make up the I Ching hexagrams.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Ching


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

Not sure if this has been posted here but check out this site.
The Hanso Fundation

Then look below the last entry "Accelerated remote viewing..." and find the dead link to the Dharma Initiative.


----------



## Maniac (Oct 6, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> Has anybody noticed how the symbols around the edge of the Dharma logo are not all the same?  I'll bet there is a pattern to them that somehow interacts with the "numbers".  I've tried counting around the edges a bit but have come up with nothing I feel is compelling.




Many have noticed.
The Dharma logo is very much like a symbol called the Bagua.
See here: http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1377
There are other sites too.

The symbols on the edge are trigrams and I believe come from the I-Ching.

M.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

So far, I've gotten 3 of the 4 number ranges on the bottom to show green.

Just gotta get the 4th....  *grr*

Note:  The site won't work for me in Firefox so now I'm using IE.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> http://www.thehansofoundation.org




Funny here:

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html 

Check out the the html file name for the Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute which is just


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> So far, I've gotten 3 of the 4 number ranges on the bottom to show green.
> 
> Just gotta get the 4th....  *grr*
> 
> Note:  The site won't work for me in Firefox so now I'm using IE.




Share and share alike now... I've only gotten one green.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Funny here:
> 
> http://www.thehansofoundation.org/activeproject.html
> 
> Check out the the html file name for the Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute which is just



You mean jedi.html, right?


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> So far, I've gotten 3 of the 4 number ranges on the bottom to show green.
> 
> Just gotta get the 4th....  *grr*
> 
> Note:  The site won't work for me in Firefox so now I'm using IE.




So many websites so little time. Which site are you referring to John?


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Share and share alike now...



 Certainly.

First off, I'm no longer using the dharma page itself.  After checking the source page on that site it lead me here:

http://www.kraftkost.se/index.htm

Which is the same thing as the dharma site but it has to mean something.

The symbols align like this (N meaning north, NE meaning northeast and so on):

N - Flame
NE- Earth	3
E - Swamp
SE- Heaven	2
S - Water
SW- Mountain	1
W - Thunder
NW- Wind

The numbers I've put next to each are how many of the number sets will light green when running the mouse over that part of the screen (near the symbol) while the numbers are randomizing but before the grey boxes start to appear over the numbers.  That's where I'm stuck now...

EDIT:  You can either refresh the screen to try different spots quickly or just right click on the flash animation and choose rewind.  Rinse, repeat, get frustrated and smash keyboard.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> So many websites so little time. Which site are you referring to John?



 The Dharma Industries site.  See above post for more.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> You mean jedi.html, right?




Yes.  I thought that was funny.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Yes.  I thought that was funny.



 Agreed.    I didn't catch it until you said it.  Cool.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> Right  here.  Click on the picture there to see a large screen capture.
> 
> Here's a screen capture for episode 1x20 "Do No Harm" of Sara, Jack's ex-wife.
> 
> I've gone into photoshop and brightened up the picture that is linked above for comparison purposes....and I think (emphasis: THINK) that it is Sarah in both pictures, or someone who looks pretty close...it's really hard to tell.




Thank you - does not look like Sarah but can't tell if "Libby" who ever that is.


----------



## The Grumpy Celt (Oct 6, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Just gotta get the 4th....  *grr*




I've also gotten 4, but I'm not certian how. And anyway, the numbers did not seem to be right.

First person to get in should offer hints and tricks to the rest of us.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I've also gotten 4, but I'm not certian how. And anyway, the numbers did not seem to be right.
> 
> First person to get in should offer hints and tricks to the rest of us.





Fair warning that due to the Swedish site redirect and persons analyzing the site code that it is believed that this may just be a fansite.  What lends to that is it doesn't have a Disney disclaimer link.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

The Grumpy Celt said:
			
		

> I've also gotten 4, but I'm not certian how. And anyway, the numbers did not seem to be right.
> 
> First person to get in should offer hints and tricks to the rest of us.



 You got all 4 to light green and it still didn't let you in?


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Fair warning that due to the Swedish site redirect and persons analyzing the site code that it is believed that this may just be a fansite.  What lends to that is it doesn't have a Disney disclaimer link.



 Thanks for the heads-up.  The Hanso site (upon a whois check) is registered to ABC but the Dharma site is not.  But if I recall the Alias game from season one, not all of the sites were "owned" by ABC/Disney.  Actually some of the clues were based off the "fake" owners.


----------



## Broccli_Head (Oct 6, 2005)

Who is Libby? Is is a character that has not been introduced  yet?

Also...inconsistency. After killing the shark, Michael puts the gun down and transfers to the other piece of floatsam. He never picks up the gun and Sawyer passes out. So...how did Sawyer get the gun that he let the obvious plant take from him?


----------



## Maerdwyn (Oct 6, 2005)

How about this (just trying it on for size):

What if Locke's dad hired Helen (whose day job is phone sex worker) to get him to stop going and hanging out in front of his house?  The relationship falls apart when he finds out about the connection (or when she breaks it off).  But she feels sorry for him and he still feels something for her, and maintaining a phone sex "relationship" with her is just about the highest level of intamacy he can manage anyway.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 6, 2005)

Broccli_Head said:
			
		

> Who is Libby? Is is a character that has not been introduced  yet?
> ...




Apparently so.  I would have rather that been labeled as a spoiler by the original poster. :\


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 6, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Apparently so.  I would have rather that been labeled as a spoiler by the original poster. :\



Don't think I would call her a spoiler, Libby is better than blonde woman in background - We know Jack makes a connection but but when or how, he could have seen the picture and wondered how a guy who was in a ship wreak had time to grab a personal item.


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 6, 2005)

Maerdwyn said:
			
		

> How about this (just trying it on for size):
> 
> What if Locke's dad hired Helen (whose day job is phone sex worker) to get him to stop going and hanging out in front of his house?  The relationship falls apart when he finds out about the connection (or when she breaks it off).  But she feels sorry for him and he still feels something for her, and maintaining a phone sex "relationship" with her is just about the highest level of intamacy he can manage anyway.




Seems like an awfully convoluted solution for little real benefit.  I don't think Locke's dad cares that much to invest into a 6+ month master plan to stop his son from parking outside his door daily.  Especially when you consider that he met her before his father confronted him, and that there was no guarantee that he could be made to leave, regardless.  After all, if taking his kidney caused this to happen, what would he do if his father had his heart ripped out?  

I'm siding with the idea that he loses Helen in the car crash that cripples him, and the Helen on the phone he speaks with is actually just someone he fixates on later, as his life is collapsing in upon itself.  Locke, like Jack, has a pretty interesting and somewhat complicated story.


----------



## David Howery (Oct 6, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Bet the big black guy is Rose's husband and when he learn she is alive will help the three back to the others...
> .



maybe, but I think he's actually the Nigerian character being added to the cast this year (TV Guide had an article about it a couple of weeks ago).  He probably has something to do with the crashed plane full of drugs...


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 6, 2005)

Broccli_Head said:
			
		

> Who is Libby? Is is a character that has not been introduced  yet?



I'll spoiler the following info just incase. I do appologize for not doing it in the earlier post.  




Spoiler



Libby was the woman in the photograph that Desmond had with him.


----------



## KaosDevice (Oct 6, 2005)

My various Lost theorizings.

I would agree that the folks around the pit are from the tailsection of the plane. That's where Anna Maria was (in seat 42F iirc). So it seems like a logical conclusion.

Jun speaking english I would imagine is from a dream or vision. 

The Dharma Initiative was all about genetic engineering, skinnerian psychology, social dynamics studies and apparently paraphenomenon studies. This would explain a lot of things: The Other's intrest in Walt (and his 'psychic twinkle'), the sharks and bears, and the bringing of various groups to the island (Danielle's group, the flight *15 crowd and probably more).

The hatch seems like TOTAL Skinner conditioning to me. You have an imagined threat (the big magnet behind the spooky sealed door) the countdown that produces an alarm that requires a reaction. It really seems to me the sole design of the test is to see how long someone would be willing to put up with it before they gave up. I side with Jack on this one, I imagine that if they failed to enter the numbers, there would be some scary beeping then absolutely nothing would happen, or perhaps some sort of automated announcement like, "This phase of testing complete".

I think we will see Desmond again fairly soon. 

I don't think the Helen on Locke's phone in the S1 flasback is the Katy Segal Helen. I was under the impression that the Helen Locke was talking to on the phone was someone he dealt with via his job in some capacity.

I'm going to rewatch the episode on high def to see if I can get a better look at the picture Desmond had.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 6, 2005)

You know, Locke talks about Jack not having faith and all, but I think that it's a really big leap of faith to assume it means nothing.  I would have liked to see Jack not push it.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Oct 7, 2005)

David Howery said:
			
		

> maybe, but I think he's actually the Nigerian character being added to the cast this year (TV Guide had an article about it a couple of weeks ago).  He probably has something to do with the crashed plane full of drugs...




Some of you may know this already, and while it has nothing to do with the connection of people in Lost, it has a connection to 2 actors in Lost...  Both Michael (played by Harold Perrineau Jr.) and the "Nigerian" dude that people keep referring to (played by Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje) were both in the HBO series "Oz".  They were both main characters.

Also, now that I take a good look at it, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje looks a LOT like the big black dude that threw them in the pit.

http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0015382/

I remember him being a lot less buff on "Oz"


----------



## Aryoche (Oct 7, 2005)

in case it hasnt been posted. The Dharma Initiative link now plays a video.

http://www.thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Oct 7, 2005)

RigaMortus2 said:
			
		

> Also, now that I take a good look at it, Adewale Akinnuoye-Agbaje looks a LOT like the big black dude that threw them in the pit.




That's probably because that's who it was.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Oct 7, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> The actress in Desmonds picture is Cynthia Watros. Her character is Libby.




Doesn't look like Cynthia Watros to me. Or Julie Bowen. Someone else entirely, methinks.


----------



## Cthulhudrew (Oct 7, 2005)

reveal said:
			
		

> Jack is a very good leader but he's only led enough to keep them alive. Locke is the one searching out things and finding out what's going on with the island.




An argument could be made, though, that Jack is the better leader because he is trying to keep things realistic by having the castaways focus on the here and now, and the reality that they may spend the rest of their lives here, instead of giving them false hopes that there may be a way off the island, or- worse- that they are constantly shrouded by terror and they may all die immediately. He is simply trying to get them to accept their existence, and get themselves into a normal living routine.


----------



## Christoph the Magus (Oct 7, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> anyone catch the date at the end of the film?




1980


----------



## Christoph the Magus (Oct 7, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> I don't see why he did it.  And did he say what happened to the other guy that showed him what to do.




He died, but he didn't say how.


----------



## Christoph the Magus (Oct 7, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> I thought the film showed 3 of 8 at the bottom. I also remember the guy saying you are working at station 3 called "the swan". Leading me to believe that the other stations are named after the other animals




I thought it said 3 of 6.


----------



## JoeBlank (Oct 7, 2005)

Aryoche said:
			
		

> in case it hasnt been posted. The Dharma Initiative link now plays a video.
> 
> http://www.thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html




We're gonna have to watch that again.

It is the orientation video. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 7, 2005)

In the video it mentions there was an incedent and they installed a timer. Could it be possible that there was no incedent, that it was made up to help sell the lie to the new replacements as they came in. And that this is part of a phsycological test.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 7, 2005)

Aryoche said:
			
		

> in case it hasnt been posted. The Dharma Initiative link now plays a video.
> 
> http://www.thehansofoundation.org/dharma.html



Thank you for providing *NEW * and *USEFUL * information Aryoche.  That should help in dissecting the video even further.


----------



## Aryoche (Oct 7, 2005)

No problem. I just finished watching all of Season I last weekend, and caught last nights episode... needless to say, I'm hooked. Lots of ideas and theories, and quite a bit is starting to add up. 

Speaking of which, I have a question that I'm not sure if it was covered, but I'm not sure how to do the spoilers, so I dont give anything away. 

What happens to the members of Dharma who left the hatch??? Could they be the "others"? Typing in the sequence every 108 minutes would seriously mess with someone, since they'd be lucky if they ever acheived REM state of sleep... it could quite drive someone mad. The whole idea of Skinner's Box seems almost too easy, but I wouldn't be surprised to find out that we have the Middle section survivors, the Tail section survivors, the "Others", and something -else-. And that's not counting the Dharma Initiative.

Hmmm...guess I figured it out! Thank you "preview button"!!!!!




			
				JoeBlank said:
			
		

> We're gonna have to watch that again.
> 
> It is the orientation video. Thanks for the heads up.


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 7, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> You got all 4 to light green and it still didn't let you in?




It says "Invalid IP" -- I wonder if it's reading the viewer's IP address and deciding we aren't allowed based on that? 

I further wonder if you could spoof an IP address, of, say, some combination of 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42, and get access that way . . .


----------



## fett527 (Oct 7, 2005)

Aryoche said:
			
		

> No problem. I just finished watching all of Season I last weekend, and caught last nights episode... needless to say, I'm hooked. Lots of ideas and theories, and quite a bit is starting to add up.
> 
> Speaking of which, I have a question that I'm not sure if it was covered, but I'm not sure how to do the spoilers, so I dont give anything away.
> 
> ...




Well, what you posted is simply speculation and not what I would call a spoiler.  A spoiler would be revealing facts about future episodes or characters that have been leaked or published.  Don't worry about speculatin'.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Oct 7, 2005)

Isn't the 'Jin Speaking English' just Daniel Day Kim talking about Season 
2 in that preview thing that was aired sometime this summer? I instantly 
recognised it as such. 

How the hell do you make the things green in that Dharma link? I've gotten
two green, but I have no idea how I did it. Is it just a random thing?


----------



## fett527 (Oct 7, 2005)

coyote6 said:
			
		

> It says "Invalid IP" -- I wonder if it's reading the viewer's IP address and deciding we aren't allowed based on that?
> 
> I further wonder if you could spoof an IP address, of, say, some combination of 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, and 42, and get access that way . . .




After further research I believe without a doubt that the www.dharmaindustries.com site is not official and simply a "fan" site.  I had posted this before.  It is simply a flash image and is not actually scanning IPs.  

Evidence:

It is named Dharma Industries which is not how it is refered to in the show

The site does not have the link to the Disney disclaimer

The site is owned by someone in Sweden according to WHOIS lookup.

The flash image has been dissected and shown to do nothing more than what it currently shows.

Could be shown differently later, but for now it's off my radar.


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 7, 2005)

Let's see:

* The Hanso Life-Extension Project

Okay, Hanso was clearly older (as was Locke's dad) and rich, possibly really likely to be interested in living longer (repairing kidneys, fixing spine injuries, etc.)

* The Hanso Foundation Electromagnetic Research Initiative

The mechanical black smoke grabby monster -- some kind cloud of particles, controlled & shaped by EM fields, effectively forming some kind "arm"?

Also capable of drawing airplanes vastly off-course, and maybe even ripping them apart?

- The Hanso Quest for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence

Maybe a red herring, or maybe the source of the other high tech stuff.

* The Hanso Mathematical Forecasting Initiative

Ooh, shades of Hari Seldon's psychohistory, from Asimov's Foundation books. A branch of mathematics used for forecasting the actions of masses of people. 

* The Hanso Cryogenics Development Imperative

If you're old & rich in 1980, and the life extension research you're funding isn't bearing fruit, you might just want to freeze yourself to be thawed out later.

* The Hanso Juxtapositional Eugenics Development Institute

AKA "let's breed us some psychics". Hello, Walt. Maybe others, too.

* The Hanso Accelerated Remote Viewing Training Facility

Again, we say hello to Walt. Maybe Shannon and Jack, too? They've both seen strange figures. ISTR it seemed like Locke saw something out in the jungle, too.

Hmm. Maybe there's a remote viewer stuck somewhere on (in) the island (possibly cyrogenically frozen?), that can project to others -- but his or her projection take on forms drawn from the recipient's mind. Thus, Jack, having just been transporting the body of his father, sees his dad; Shannon, worried about losing the dog she promised the kid she'd watch over, sees Walt; Locke sees something that confirms his faith.

Yeah, the passengers are all part of the experiments. Multiple experiments.

Or, they're all red herrings.


----------



## coyote6 (Oct 7, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> After further research I believe without a doubt that the www.dharmaindustries.com site is not official and simply a "fan" site.  I had posted this before.  It is simply a flash image and is not actually scanning IPs.
> 
> Evidence:
> 
> It is named Dharma Industries which is not how it is refered to in the show




Good point -- it was the Dharma Initiative, and the link on the Hanso FOundation site is so titled.

OTOH, maybe they're just _really_ messing with people, and posting their own fake websites.


----------



## Aryoche (Oct 7, 2005)

fett527 said:
			
		

> Well, what you posted is simply speculation and not what I would call a spoiler.  A spoiler would be revealing facts about future episodes or characters that have been leaked or published.  Don't worry about speculatin'.




So I'm guessing that I didn't miss the answer to the question then? Did they say or imply what happens to them? Also, didn't they say how long they were supposed to be there? 540 days? which if you gather an average of 30 days per month...comes out to 18 months... or 1.5 years. And it didnt look like 18 months of food there...


----------



## LightPhoenix (Oct 7, 2005)

540 days is 108 days times 5.  Doubt it means anything, but there you go.


----------



## Just_Hal (Oct 7, 2005)

Pants said:
			
		

> Jin has managed to learn some rudimentary English, is it that hard to believe that he might know the plane's number in English too?
> 
> Definitely a step up from last week's nosedive.  Looks like the 'others' really are from the tail section.
> 
> This episode kinda sorta explains the fricken' laser sharks from the previous episode. Genetic manipulation/screwing with was one of the parts of the Dharma project no?




I think the tail section people are not the others and there are two grps of ppl on the island.  I heard that  it may not be Jack's dad but Locke's.  I think this is one of the best shows on TV and even the side episode was a great look into what is going on, I am very happy with all of this season so far.


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 7, 2005)

A couple of thoughts that are bouncing around in my brain:

1)  The Swan's watchmen were pretty damn well-armed.  If it was a hoax, a Spinner cage, why would you give them heavy artillery? Associated thought: The Survivors are now packing a sizable variety of hardware.  Presumably Hansoo provided it.

2)  Rousseau set-up the transmission years ago at the location of a facility that the Others had taken over.  Why haven't they stopped the transmission in all that time?  Is the facility in question the main facility that Dharma used on the island, before the incident?


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 7, 2005)

There could actually be 3 or more groups depending on how you look at it.
1. The survivors from the Fuselage
2. The Others(Native to the island)
3. The Others(Tail section survivors)

These are a possible depending on your view
4. Desmond and Calvin(hatch people)
5. The French research group (Rousseau being the only one left)


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 7, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> 1)  The Swan's watchmen were pretty damn well-armed.  If it was a hoax, a Spinner cage, why would you give them heavy artillery? Associated thought: The Survivors are now packing a sizable variety of hardware.  Presumably Hansoo provided it.




Maybe it was also meant as a big version of the Stanford Prison Experiment  That would be pretty cool.


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 7, 2005)

Can't recall their names, but the orientation film mentions the two Doctoral students, husband and wife, who came up with the Dharma Initiative. I think those two are the season 1 cave-corpses dubbed "Adam & Eve."



			
				coyote6 said:
			
		

> - The Hanso Quest for Extra-Terrestrial Intelligence
> 
> Maybe a red herring, or maybe the source of the other high tech stuff.




It's the island.

The orientation film mentions "electromagnetic emanations" from this sector of the island. Obviously, the island itself has significance beyond what the Hanso Foundation has been doing in the past 25-35 years. What about the Black Rock? Obviously it ran aground long ago (I think the "Others" are the descendants of the Black Rock's crew).

The island is actually a landmass-sized chunk of an alien spacecraft that crashed hundreds of millions of years ago. Now it's all encusted with earth and foliage, etc., so it looks like an island. It might not even be connected to the sea floor ("The Swan" floating upon the waves); or if it is connected, it might be anchored electromagnetically. Hell, maybe not pressing the button will cause the island to come off its "mooring" and cause untold damage to the Hanso Foundation labs that are no doubt hidden all over the island. Aw, now I'm ramblin'.

Another note:

At the end of the film, the speaker says "Namaste. Good luck." I have spoken to a friend who spent several years in Japan, and has taken numerous language courses. He says "namaste" is not a commonly-used word in social interactions.

So I google'd it, and found that it is a Hindu term. Here's Deepak Chopra's definition:



> Namaste is an Indian expression used as a greeting or upon parting, by putting the palms of the hands together in prayer position. It means, “I honor the Spirit in you which is also in me.”
> 
> This, of course, is also a way of saying, “I recognize that we are all equal.”




See more interesting correlations here: http://www.mlmgorilla.com/namaste/

By the way, all of the above is just the product of my fevered brain. If it turns out to be a spoiler, well...maybe then I'm already one of the "Others."

I also think that Hanso himself is frozen somewhere on this island.


----------



## Steverooo (Oct 7, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> It's the island.
> 
> The orientation film mentions "electromagnetic emanations" from this sector of the island. Obviously, the island itself has significance beyond what the Hanso Foundation has been doing in the past 25-35 years. What about the Black Rock? Obviously it ran aground long ago (I think the "Others" are the descendants of the Black Rock's crew).
> 
> The island is actually a landmass-sized chunk of an alien spacecraft that crashed hundreds of millions of years ago. Now it's all encusted with earth and foliage, etc., so it looks like an island. It might not even be connected to the sea floor ("The Swan" floating upon the waves); or if it is connected, it might be anchored electromagnetically. Hell, maybe not pressing the button will cause the island to come off its "mooring" and cause untold damage to the Hanso Foundation labs that are no doubt hidden all over the island. Aw, now I'm ramblin'.




Well, maybe you iz, an' maybe you isn't, but even if you is, it don't mean you're wrong!

Again, the "They're on an alien space station" theory was proposed in season one, as that comic book of Hugo's that Walt was reading took place on one, as well...

With this show, who knows?  

Here's another thought, or a couple:

The strange EM effects of the island cause compasses to vear off, near the island.  We know that the one Locke gave Sayid, last season, surely did.  This could help explain why various ships and planes wind up here...

Also, perhaps the code hasn't been entered, on time, several times, over the years...  An EMP (Electro-magnetic pulse) would wipe out all the electronics (unless heavily shielded, depending upon the power of the pulse), and would certainly explain modern ships and planes (with electronic instrumentation) going down, or wrecking.  A simple trawler (which is what the boat that captured Walt looked like), and a shielded broadcast station might be able to survive the EMP (the trawler's engines certainly would).

Maybe the "disease" that Danielle Rouseau & Desmond are so worried about is radiation poisoning from a bomb, on countdown?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 7, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Well, maybe you iz, an' maybe you isn't, but even if you is, it don't mean you're wrong!
> 
> Again, the "They're on an alien space station" theory was proposed in season one, as that comic book of Hugo's that Walt was reading took place on one, as well...
> 
> ...



Philadelphia Experiment on a stationary mass, the island, could result in the island being unlocked in time, invisiblity, and cause mental problems due to the EMP.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_Experiment


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 7, 2005)

Steverooo said:
			
		

> Maybe the "disease" that Danielle Rouseau & Desmond are so worried about is radiation poisoning from a bomb, on countdown?




Desmond doesn't know what he's afraid of...but his partner clearly filled him with the fear of it.  Danielle, on the other hand, was a scientist...I think she'd know the difference between a disease and poisoning when she saw it, crazy or not.


----------



## fett527 (Oct 7, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> ...Another note:
> 
> At the end of the film, the speaker says "Namaste. Good luck." I have spoken to a friend who spent several years in Japan, and has taken numerous language courses. He says "namaste" is not a commonly-used word in social interactions.
> 
> ...




Yes, this is also on the Hanso site:



> ACCESS DENIED: HANSO FOUNDATION PROPRIETARY INFORMATION
> 
> You do not have permission to access this data. Access to information on this project is restricted to authorized employees of The Hanso Foundation and upper-tier board members of The Hanso Holding Company.
> 
> ...


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 7, 2005)

"Namaste" is very commonly used in New Age circles today, and was not uncommon in hippie cultures of the 60s and 70s, fyi.

If the countdown timer is a Skinner box, then it's quite possible that your "partner" _always_ "dies"/disappears/whatever shortly after the experiment begins. 

The psych ward patient that gives Hurley the numbers doesn't have to have been Desmond's partner: he could have been anyone who was subjected to the experiment in the last 25 years.


----------



## KaosDevice (Oct 7, 2005)

I'm really leaning towards the Others as being former Hanso subjects that has gone mental or are at best following long outdated mission objectives.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Oct 7, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> That's probably because that's who it was.




Well my point being, if it is him, then he is a survivor from the tail section of the plane.  I doubt he was the one piloting the crashed drug plane Locke and Boon find, which is what other people seem to be implying.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 8, 2005)

I'm just gonna throw this out there -

The Others are Cylons.  As is Locke.

Mmmm hmm.


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 8, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> Can't recall their names, but the orientation film mentions the two Doctoral students, husband and wife, who came up with the Dharma Initiative. I think those two are the season 1 cave-corpses dubbed "Adam & Eve."




I just watched that episode a couple nights ago, and Jack says that it would have taken 40 or 50 years (can't remember exactly) for the bodies and clothes to deteriorate as much as they had.

As I said, I can't remember exactly how many years he said, but it was a lot longer that the 25 years since that Orientation movie was copyrighted.


----------



## Tarrasque Wrangler (Oct 8, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> I'm just gonna throw this out there -
> 
> The Others are Cylons.  As is Locke.
> 
> Mmmm hmm.



 Nope.  Black Oil aliens.  Remember when they got stung by all those bees?  Just you wait and see.


----------



## ThirdWizard (Oct 8, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> The psych ward patient that gives Hurley the numbers doesn't have to have been Desmond's partner: he could have been anyone who was subjected to the experiment in the last 25 years.




Any reason to disbelieve the story that they overheard the numbers on a radio frequency while listening to transmisions in the Pacific Ocean? We know it was being broadcast (for whatever reason), as the French woman told them that she got the numbers from the transmision before chaning it. He seems to have gone insane because of the horrible luck brought about by the use of the numbers, as Hurly can attest.

I don't believe he was ever involved in the experiments on the island.

I don't think the countdown is just a psyche test. That would be too anti-climatic, I think, unless they can offer up something beyond it just being their new bed and breakfast. Admittedly, why it can't be automated, or whatever I can't explain. However, on an island as weird as this one, I can't help but think this isn't the place to run across a normal psyche test. There's something to it.


----------



## RigaMortus2 (Oct 8, 2005)

Also, what if the psych ward Hurly was in has something to do with the Hanso corporation?


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 8, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> Nope.  Black Oil aliens.  Remember when they got stung by all those bees?  Just you wait and see.



Ya know, that's *just* what a <b>Cylon</b> would say.  

* looks around *


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 8, 2005)

Tarrasque Wrangler said:
			
		

> I just watched that episode a couple nights ago, and Jack says that it would have taken 40 or 50 years (can't remember exactly) for the bodies and clothes to deteriorate as much as they had.
> 
> As I said, I can't remember exactly how many years he said, but it was a lot longer that the 25 years since that Orientation movie was copyrighted.




D'oh! That'll show me for making theories about Season 1 when I haven't seen it yet! I'm seriously tempted to go buy it, but I entered the Lost Haiku contest on Ain't It Cool News, and I'm waiting to see if I won!   

So it's not the DeGroots in the cave. Okay. It still shows that things have been weird on the island _long_ before Alvar Hanso and the DeGroots showed up.

I went back to look at the Dharma Logo on the shark -- it is NOT the Swan symbol. Although the I Ching hexagrams go around the edge, the center looks like a black, circular field with a straight white line across the middle. This lends credence to the idea that all 6 stations are on this one island (since two different logos have been seen, and we know that at least one logo corresponds to a specific station).

Oh, by the way...my entry in the Lost Haiku contest:

Jump back Jack! Desmond
Predicted your miracle
And he has a gun


----------



## Cutter XXIII (Oct 8, 2005)

One other thing for the mathematicians, to satisfy my curiosity:

I've seen a lot of talk over whether the numbers are a sequence, which ones are prime, etc. But what happens if you add 5 to the sequence (besides making the total 113)?

4 5 8 15 16 23 42. What does that do, mathematically speaking?

5 x 108 = 540 days in the bunker.
5 in Jack's tattoo
Discordian Law of Fives: "The Law of Fives states simply that: ALL THINGS HAPPEN IN FIVES, OR ARE DIVISIBLE BY OR ARE MULTIPLES OF FIVE, OR ARE SOMEHOW DIRECTLY OR INDIRECTLY APPROPRIATE TO 5. The Law of Fives is never wrong."

Now, that last one is only sort of a joke. "I find the Law of Fives to be more and more manifest the harder I look," says the Principia Discordia. But finding more and more numbers the harder you look is the experience of _Lost_.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 9, 2005)

Here on the east coast the re-aired this weeks episode. But the previews for next weeks were different. 
[sblock]They showed the Charlie confronting Hurley and the shower seen. The they cut to Micheal and Sawyer and say we will find more answers about the others(tail section peeps) Shows Ana Lucia leading them thru a dark tunnel and into a bigger room with a blonde woman. I could't tell who said it but it sounded like Sawyer saying "I thought you said there were twenty three" With the blonde woman replying "there were". Then they cut to Jin speaking english.[/sblock]


----------



## WayneLigon (Oct 9, 2005)

Cutter XXIII said:
			
		

> 4 5 8 15 16 23 42. What does that do, mathematically speaking?




I have not yet seen anyone come up with anything it fits - no meaningful sequence, no obscure mathematical model or lost/unsolved function - so it's probably just something they came up with.


----------



## Bran Blackbyrd (Oct 9, 2005)

Michelle Rodriguez's character may have been another marshal. That could explain why she turned on the guys the minute Sawyer told her whom the gun had belonged to.
Well, that and she doesn't want her big black companion shot.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 9, 2005)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> I have not yet seen anyone come up with anything it fits - no meaningful sequence, no obscure mathematical model or lost/unsolved function - so it's probably just something they came up with.



There have been a number of thoughts on it but nothing factual just interesting.  Like Jack and others have said, they are just numbers.


----------



## dluvsk4ever (Oct 10, 2005)

*Ok Ladies Heres The Dharma and Numbers Secret You've Been Waiting For*

OK WE ALL NOW WHAT THE DHARMA SIGNAL LLOKS LIKE I HOPE, BUT FOR THOSE OF YOU THAT DON'T KNOW WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT IT IS THE ONE WITH THE SWAN IN THE MIDDLE AND THE LINES AROUND IT. NOW SOME OF YOU HAVE FIGURED OUT WHERE THE LINES COME FROM (I CHING), AND SOME MAY KNOW THAT IT IS A COMPASS (AH YOU DIDN'T) WELL IT IS ONLY IT IS UPSIDE DOWN, WHICH MEANS SOUTH IS NORTH, AND IN I CHING SOUTH IS THE SAME AS HELL, HMMMMM.... NEXT, WHICH IS WEIRD...... HEAVEN IS NW (BOTTOM RIGHT) ON THE DHARMA COMPASS. NOW WE ALL KNOW THAT IF YOU PRESS THE http://www.dharmaindustries.com/ LINK (GO AHEAD YOU KNOW YOU WANT TO, JUST COME BACK) IT BRINGS UP THE PICTURE I AM REFERING TO, BUT WATCH CLOSELY, SEE HOW THEY HIGHLIGHT WELL EACH ONE OF THEM IS A NUMBER IN (I CHING) ALSO, CREEPY EH AND BY NUMBER IM SURE YOU ALL KNOW WHAT NUMBERS I AM REFFERING TO, OH COME ON REALLY 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 ONLY THE MOST IMPORTANT NUMBERS IN THE NEW FREE WORLD, ANYWAY THE WAY THE LINES HIGHLIGHT, THEY LINK TWO TO EACH OTHER, THE ONLY PROBLEM IS THAT NONE OF THEM LINK TO HEAVEN. WATCH CLOSELY YOU'LL SEE. SO HAVING SAID THAT I KNOW THAT I WILL GET REBUTTALS, AND THAN SOME POSSIBLE FAN MAIL, SO REFER THE HATE TO ME AND THE FAN MAIL TO MY FIANCE. CAUSE I CAN TAKE THE HATE. SWEEEEEET


----------



## ThirdWizard (Oct 10, 2005)

I wrote a program that converts caps to lower case for just such emergencies.



			
				dluvsk4ever said:
			
		

> ok we all now what the dharma signal lloks like i hope, but for those of you that don't know what im talking about it is the one with the swan in the middle and the lines around it. now some of you have figured out where the lines come from (i ching), and some may know that it is a compass (ah you didn't) well it is only it is upside down, which means south is north, and in i ching south is the same as hell, hmmmmm.... next, which is weird...... heaven is nw (bottom right) on the dharma compass. now we all know that if you press the http://www.dharmaindustries.com/ link (go ahead you know you want to, just come back) it brings up the picture i am refering to, but watch closely, see how they highlight well each one of them is a number in (i ching) also, creepy eh and by number im sure you all know what numbers i am reffering to, oh come on really 4, 8, 15, 16, 23, 42 only the most important numbers in the new free world, anyway the way the lines highlight, they link two to each other, the only problem is that none of them link to heaven. watch closely you'll see. so having said that i know that i will get rebuttals, and than some possible fan mail, so refer the hate to me and the fan mail to my fiance. cause i can take the hate. sweeeeeet




If only the program could make paragraphs as well. Version 1.1 will make anything after a single period capital if I ever get around to it.


----------



## John Crichton (Oct 10, 2005)

ThirdWizard said:
			
		

> I wrote a program that converts caps to lower case for just such emergencies.
> 
> 
> 
> If only the program could make paragraphs as well. Version 1.1 will make anything after a single period capital if I ever get around to it.



 First off - Sweet program.  

Second - This guy's post wasn't worth it.  It's too bad your program doesn't add real and insightful commentary.  Note that he was trying to put it in all caps and font size 7...


----------



## ThirdWizard (Oct 10, 2005)

John Crichton said:
			
		

> Second - This guy's post wasn't worth it.  It's too bad your program doesn't add real and insightful commentary.




Now that would be a useful program!


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 10, 2005)

Was watching the repeat Saturday night @ 8 and noticed the film at the very beginning said Orientation for station 3 of 6, missed that the first time.  Also the preview for the next one had more in it...

[sblock]Jin, Micheal, & Sawyer are taken to a station and you learn there *were* 23 from the tail section.[/sblock]


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 10, 2005)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> Was watching the repeat Saturday night @ 8 and noticed the film at the very beginning said Orientation for station 3 of 6, missed that the first time.  Also the preview for the next one had more in it...
> 
> [sblock]Jin, Micheal, & Sawyer are taken to a station and you learn there *were* 23 from the tail section.[/sblock]





Glad I wasn't the only one that caught that on Saturday night


----------



## Taelorn76 (Oct 10, 2005)

dluvsk4ever said:
			
		

> http://www.dharmaindustries.com/




Haven't we established this is a Fan site, Not affiliated with Disney or ABC?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 10, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Glad I wasn't the only one that caught that on Saturday night



Hope they continue to do it too, last year they started and stopped the Saturday repeats.


----------



## Undead Pete (Oct 10, 2005)

Since _Ethan Rom_ was an anagram for _Other Man_, I thought I would try it with _Alvar Hanso_.

Here's a good website for this: http://wordsmith.org/anagram/  I haven't found anything that is obvious, but I doubt it would be so obvious.


----------



## KaosDevice (Oct 10, 2005)

According to one of the writers on the show a book that is seen on the shelf in the hatch, The Third Policeman by Flann O'Brian. Supposedly this has some ties to what is going on on the island.


----------



## krissi (Oct 10, 2005)

*Locke's legs*

Now, this doesn't really have much to do with the new developments on episode 3, but I thought I would mention it anyway.  As you all know the island has some sort of magnetic enigma (possibly related (or not) to the average length of the rotational period of the sun (108 divided by 4 = 27) hinted at by the 108 being at he center of the sun drawn on the wall inside the hatch (as mentioned at egoplex).)  What if the magnetism of the island helped Locke regain the use of his legs?  If Locke was in an accident that shattered bones in his body, doctors would have likely used metal pins and screws to help his bones heal properly.  Magnetism has been known to increase circulation in the body (red blood cells contain iron, and thus are affected by magnetism.)  Maybe the magnetism of the island helped increase the blood circulation to his legs so that he was able to heal.  The affects are not permanent though.  The suns influence on Earth changes as it rotates.  Could it be that Locke's sudden loss of feeling and use of his legs were related to this cycle?


----------



## Chaldfont (Oct 10, 2005)

krissi said:
			
		

> Now, this doesn't really have much to do with the new developments on episode 3, but I thought I would mention it anyway.  As you all know the island has some sort of magnetic enigma (possibly related (or not) to the average length of the rotational period of the sun (108 divided by 4 = 27) hinted at by the 108 being at he center of the sun drawn on the wall inside the hatch (as mentioned at egoplex).)  What if the magnetism of the island helped Locke regain the use of his legs?  If Locke was in an accident that shattered bones in his body, doctors would have likely used metal pins and screws to help his bones heal properly.  Magnetism has been known to increase circulation in the body (red blood cells contain iron, and thus are affected by magnetism.)  Maybe the magnetism of the island helped increase the blood circulation to his legs so that he was able to heal.  The affects are not permanent though.  The suns influence on Earth changes as it rotates.  Could it be that Locke's sudden loss of feeling and use of his legs were related to this cycle?




Maybe that's why they had so much playing golf--the magnetism improved their game. Golfers seem to have this superstitious belief that wearing magnetic bracelets help their game.


----------



## Flexor the Mighty! (Oct 10, 2005)

I would think that a magenetic field making Locke's legs work again wouldn't have been as abrupt a process as happened on the show.  It had been 4 years apparently since he had walked.  He woke up on the beach, wiggled his toes, got up and walked off.   Barring some kind of mystical deal I can't see that happening due to simple healing.


----------



## dluvsk4ever (Oct 11, 2005)

*funny thought*

I think it's kind of funny that 2 people that were paralyzed (sarah and locke) werre able to walk again when desmond and jack were in the same area.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 11, 2005)

dluvsk4ever said:
			
		

> I think it's kind of funny that 2 people that were paralyzed (sarah and locke) werre able to walk again when desmond and jack were in the same area.



This was discussed last season, Jack seem to keep people alive too, the marshall and Boone he had to give up on, so his will may be all it takes.


----------



## WizarDru (Oct 11, 2005)

We know that someone considers the baby and Walt to be special children....who's to say that Jack isn't similar?


----------



## fett527 (Oct 11, 2005)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> Haven't we established this is a Fan site, Not affiliated with Disney or ABC?




In my mind it is, from my research last week.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Oct 11, 2005)

WizarDru said:
			
		

> We know that someone considers the baby and Walt to be special children....who's to say that Jack isn't similar?



Jack's father told Sawyer in the bar that Jack was "special", much the same way Locke's mother called him "special" and so we look at the contrast between the two and we can use the word juxtaposition because it is used as a reseach being performed as part of the island!


----------



## Rel (Oct 11, 2005)

I'm special too dammit!


----------



## fett527 (Oct 11, 2005)

Rel said:
			
		

> I'm special too dammit!




_Trebuchet!_

Wait.  That's not what I meant, let me try again.

_Trebuchet!_

Damn!


----------



## Fast Learner (Oct 12, 2005)

So, we've all heard about http://thehansofoundation.org

But have you heard about https://thehansofoundation.org ?

That slight difference, requesting it as a secure site, has an interesting side effect. After getting through the warnings about the site certificate being bad, you get an interesting page, just a url to http://bigspaceship1.com

_That_ site changes all day long. There have been polar bears, I know, and when I accessed it a few minutes ago there was a white mouse on some red cheese with a very interesting "radio broadcast" going on in the audio of the Flash.

And the page title changes each time, too, so far always Morse Code spelling out different things. This most recent visit it spelled out "A LONG TIME AGO, ON AN ISLAND FAR FAR AWAY".

Weird, wacky stuff.


----------

