# Defiance - Syfy



## Elodan (Apr 20, 2013)

Didn't see a thread on this.

Finally watched the 2-hour premiere via DVR last night.  Somewhat predictable but I thought the characters and concepts of the show were pretty interesting.  I think we only saw 6 of the possible 8 alien species that landed 33 years earlier.

Added as a series recording.


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## Derren (Apr 20, 2013)

I give it 2 seasons tops.
Sadly real Science Fiction series are dead. Too expensive and a too small target group. Instead we get more and more "relationship dramas" in every setting possible (including science fiction like here) which is at best only paid lip service to.

I never thought I would say this, but Disney is now the best hope for SciFi.


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 21, 2013)

It was certainly a mix of tropes and things we've seen before, but I thought it was smoothly executed. As pilots go, I thought it watchable. It has potential. Much better than the other stuff that channel puts out.

I hadn't heard of most of the cast, but generally liked them. I thought the aliens were well executed and interesting and the mythology of the show had potential. That said, I watched it mainly because Bear McCreary composed music for it, but I note that Rockne O'Bannon from Farscape is in charge of things. He knows how to keep things moving and how to make sci-fi emotionally resonant. For that reason I'm hoping for it to go somewhere.

Given how much SyFy is invested in this I have to think they'll give it every chance at renewal. I suspect the associated game (which I don't care much about one way or the other) will have a lot to do with how it turns out, for better or for worse.


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 21, 2013)

Derren said:


> Sadly real Science Fiction series are dead. Too expensive and a too small target group. Instead we get more and more "relationship dramas" in every setting possible (including science fiction like here) which is at best only paid lip service to.
> 
> I never thought I would say this, but Disney is now the best hope for SciFi.



While I don't really disagree with you, I do hold out some hope for the future. After all, expensive niche dramas are all over cable these days. Given that HBO took the plunge into fantasy (real fantasy) with GoT and AMC is doing a comic book horror series with Walking Dead, I think that eventually some really good science fiction show will catch on in a similar manner. Modern TV, with all its many channels and pay structures, supports expensive small-niche TV much better than it used to.


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## Derren (Apr 21, 2013)

Ahnehnois said:


> While I don't really disagree with you, I do hold out some hope for the future. After all, expensive niche dramas are all over cable these days. Given that HBO took the plunge into fantasy (real fantasy) with GoT and AMC is doing a comic book horror series with Walking Dead, I think that eventually some really good science fiction show will catch on in a similar manner. Modern TV, with all its many channels and pay structures, supports expensive small-niche TV much better than it used to.




The problem is good sci fi is expensive and unless it draws a lot of viewers there are more profitable settings.


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## Ahnehnois (Apr 21, 2013)

Derren said:


> The problem is good sci fi is expensive and unless it draws a lot of viewers there are more profitable settings.



I don't think cost is really the issue. There are plenty of expensive shows that get made, and cgi has really advanced and is getting cheaper. I don't think a lot of good sci-fi pitches are being made, and I don't think execs are looking for sci-fi. I suspect there will be another turn of the cultural wheel and sci-fi will be back again soon.


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## Deset Gled (Apr 24, 2013)

The Defiance pilot really felt more like watching a video game than a TV show.  And the second episode was very contrived, but I can see the potential for it to grow into something better.

However, the reason that I will not be watching Defiance any more is because of the horrible misuse of "Come As You Are" by Nirvana at the end of the episode.  Sorry, Defiance, but that's a major faux pas you don't get to come back from.


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## darjr (Apr 24, 2013)

I really liked the first episode. And I thought the second was better.

And I really liked the "Come as you are" variant.

Huh...

Anyway I like how they've taken cliche's and kinda broke them. I can't wait to see where it goes.


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## LeStew (Apr 25, 2013)

Has anyone played the game yet?  I liked the first two episodes but am worried I'm missing something because I am not playing the MMO.


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## Umbran (Apr 25, 2013)

I understand the idea behind having the game run alongside the series - it is an interesting concept there.  But, I have to admit that it seems a disincentive for me, as I have no plans to get involved in a game - if the game is really a cool part of the story, then I'm missing a goodly chunk of the world by not playing.


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## Umbran (Apr 25, 2013)

Derren said:


> Sadly real Science Fiction series are dead.




Cue flamewar over what constitutes "real" science fiction.



> Instead we get more and more "relationship dramas" in every setting possible




Because, you know, soap operas are somehow stunningly unpopular...



> I never thought I would say this, but Disney is now the best hope for SciFi.




See previously noted flamewar over "real" sci-fi, 'cause you're just begging for someone to inform you how Star Wars is more "space fantasy" than science fiction. 

When Disney decides to make a show based on, say, Niven and Pournelle's _The Mote in God's Eye_, then you'll have me thinking they're doing real science fiction.


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## JRRNeiklot (Apr 27, 2013)

I wanted to like this show, but it just doesn't know what it wants to be.  It has Romeo and Juliet, Othello, wookies, even has Han Solo as the main character.  Too many cliches for me to mention in one post.  I foresee another one season wonder.


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## Skryme (May 9, 2013)

There are parts that turn into predictible tropey scifi, but I confess I'm still watching.  One thing I don't quite understand is how the city of St. Louis is entirely underground as a result of terraforming, yet the Arch is still above ground.  I would have thought that terraforming might have covered all of the world's cities.  Sadly, it's no Farscape, but I haven't given up hope yet.


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## ggroy (May 9, 2013)

I'm still watching too, albeit with declining interest.  (I'll probably dvr the rest of the season, even if the episodes end up being stockpiled and unwatched).

Even if one removed all the sci-fi specific tropes/trappings from Defiance, the underlying writing and story telling hasn't been particularly captivating to me.

In contrast, I'm finding the new episodes of Continuum and Orphan Black to be more captivating and exciting, than the new episodes of Defiance.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 10, 2013)

> I don't think cost is really the issue.



It _always _an issue.

Costs nearly prevented ST:tNG from getting made, and killed both _Eureka_ and _Alphas_ on Sci-Fi/SyFy.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 10, 2013)

I must confess that I AM a tad annoyed at yet another "bleached-white" alien race- the Minbari of Bab5; the Ori Priors and Wraiths of the Stargate shows, and now the Castithans.


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## Ahnehnois (May 10, 2013)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> It _always _an issue.



I think it's an issue, not the issue. Basically every television show is being squeezed for money. And genre shows probably distribute that money a bit differently (i.e. less to the cast, more to effects). But if AMC can afford zombie makeup and outdoor shooting on a weekly basis for TWD, they could afford a sci-fi show if the right one presented itself. Same with HBO and GoT.



Dannyalcatraz said:


> I must confess that I AM a tad annoyed at yet another "bleached-white" alien race- the Minbari of Bab5; the Ori Priors and Wraiths of the Stargate shows, and now the Castithans.



How many ways do you think there are to apply makeup to the human body, make it look weird enough that it reads as alien, but make it so that it works practically and can be taken seriously? I mean, every show with humanlike aliens is derivative of Star Trek on that level, because they already tried everything.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 10, 2013)

Well, lets just stick to the bleached white monochrome look...you do realize the human eye can discern @1M colors?

So, why not black monochrome (like Drow or Atevi)?

Blue monochrome?  Red?  Purple?  Green?

Break it down further- turquoise or cobalt blue; tomato or scarlet red; lilacs or royal purple; lime or forest green.  There are lots of options.

Just...stop with the bleach.


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## ggroy (May 10, 2013)

Defiance renewed for a second season.

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/05/10/defiance-renewed-for-second-season-by-syfy/181987/


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## Elodan (May 10, 2013)

ggroy said:


> Defiance renewed for a second season.
> 
> http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2013/05/10/defiance-renewed-for-second-season-by-syfy/181987/




I have to say the whole video game can affect the show thing makes me nervous.

While I'm enjoying it, I think the show's definitely struggling with what it wants to be.


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## Dannyalcatraz (May 11, 2013)

OTOH, that interlink could provide a revenue stream to keep $$$ from being the Sword of Damocles over the show's existence.


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## randomeric (May 11, 2013)

I picked up the video game.  It takes place in San Francisco.

The two main characters are on a transport with you that crashes.

At that point you are picked up by other NPCs.

I think that there will be references to things that happen in the game, and i would hazard a guess that perhaps season 2 will be affected by what happens in the game during season 1.

But these shows are shot so far in advance and written even further in advance that other than a quick script change to mention something, nothing significant can transpire from the game to the show quickly.

That's my take anyway.

It is a bit of a 3rd person shooter the way the controls work.

I am more of a TAB, press 1, 2, 3, etc... next target.

This one you have to aim and keep aiming.

But it seems quite fun.

As to the show, I have seen episode 1 and 2.  Waiting for my wife to catch up to watch #3.  And #4 now.

So far I like it.  My wife noticed the Twilight Romeo-and-Juliet ring-giving in the meadow back lit with the sun.

And the pale faced aliens look like D&D elf vampires to me.

But they exude a certain... sinister (the two main aliens that is, husband and wife).

I like the ex-mayor plotting something.

Certainly much better than Terra Nova.


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## Jhaelen (May 13, 2013)

randomeric said:


> Certainly much better than Terra Nova.



That's ... not much of an achievement


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## randomeric (May 16, 2013)

The last few episodes have been better.

I credit the lack of teenage romance.

I think the sinister intent from Stahma and Datak Tarr in regard to their son hooking up with the Mccawley's daughter is based in that teenage romance.  Now that it is established they can, hopefully, give the cute details a rest and focus on the sinister part.

I like how Nolan and his daughter are getting a bit more serious.

We'll see how it improves!


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