# Barrels- how big? hold how much? - reality check



## lordxaviar (Nov 11, 2010)

I spent some time actually researching barrels and even buying several to make this list more realistic. would love comments. under cost  I save writing out all the types of coin...  1 = 1 gp  1.1 = 1 gp + 1 sp and can you figure out what 1.11 is?

            Item                                   ``````````````Cost gp ````````           Weight empty#'s
  Barrel, personal                         `````````1 ```````````'''```                       8
  Barrel Oil                                ```````````````10 ````````````                    100
  Barrel, small or half cask ```            1 ````````````                     12
  Barrel, cask `````````````                             1.8 ```````````                  23
  Barrel medium                           ````````````2`````````````                      25
  Barrel, firkin`````````````                              2.9 ```````````                  31
  Barrel, anker``````````````                             3 ```````````                    32
  Barrel  Keg`````````````````4````````````                     43
  Barrel large````````````````                              8                      ````````````85
  Barrel, hogshead ```````````                    15``````````                    180
  Barrel, puncheon                     ```````````28```````````                    220
  Barrel butt ```````````````                            40````````````                    350
  Barrel tun ````````````````                            100 ``````````                   720

  Item `````````````````                                        Liquid capacity - ounces - oz-             ````Volume
  Barrel, personal```````````                       1 Gal[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT]                                                  ``````````````````````10" tall
  Barrel Oil ````````````````                               42 Gal/ 26Gal dry                               ``````````````4.5' tall
  Barrel, small or half cask ````        2 Gal-                                                  ```````````````````````1.5’ tall
  Barrel, cask                             ```````````````5 Gal-64                                              .````````````````````7/ 2' tall
  Barrel medium                        `````````````7.5 Gal-                                                `````````````````````2.5' tall
  Barrel, firkin ``````````````                           9.8 Gal-                                               ``````````````````````3' tall
  Barrel, anker``````````````                            10 Gal-```````````````````````                                                3' tall
  Barrel  Keg.                             ````````````````15.75 Gal- ````````````````````                                          4' tall
  Barrel large ```````````````                             31.5 Gal-``````````````````````                                             4' tall
  Barrel, hogshead ```````````                    63 Gal-````````````````````````*
  Barrel, puncheon ```````````                    84 Gal-````````````````````````*
  Barrel butt ````````````````                              126 Gal-```````````````````````*
  Barrel tun                                ``````````````````252 Gal-```````````````````````*

[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] Water weighs 8.345404 lbs per gallon, basically a pint is a pound.
* These are very large, i didnt get the exact dimensions but a Tun is approx 10' in diameter at the edge


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## Theo R Cwithin (Nov 12, 2010)

Just curious: How'd did you figure gp costs?  Do you have a $-to-GP conversion, or did you extrapolate from D&D equipment costs, or...?


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## lordxaviar (Nov 12, 2010)

i do it in several ways,,,  Not sure of the exact method i used here it was some time ago, but I believe i started with the cost from the books and then used the old Article by Gary G on the conversion from real dollars to gold coin.  Of course there is always some extrapolation on my part, a good example of this is the cost of crafting an item.  have a look at the iron pot... you could make a good living buying them and scraping them out, there is no cost for making the pot. one of the things that got me going on this.

so after all this rant... your quick answer is YES...  I do both and look how it balances.


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## lordxaviar (Nov 12, 2010)

I did some further research, i left out a few and some reference materials, because there are some websites with faulty information on the actual sizes.  quick for instance... from the Oxford Dictionary:  A tun is four Hogshead which is 63 gallons.

So I have a better list if anyone wishes... email me for it in table format.


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## Sorrowdusk (Nov 12, 2010)

lordxaviar said:


> i do it in several ways,,, Not sure of the exact method i used here it was some time ago, but I believe i started with the cost from the books and then used the old Article by Gary G on the conversion from real dollars to gold coin. Of course there is always some extrapolation on my part, a good example of this is the cost of crafting an item. have a look at the iron pot... you could make a good living buying them and scraping them out, there is no cost for making the pot. one of the things that got me going on this.
> 
> so after all this rant... your quick answer is YES... I do both and look how it balances.




IS that article availiable online?


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## Ogrork the Mighty (Nov 13, 2010)

Or do you know the Dragon magazine #?


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## lordxaviar (Nov 16, 2010)

I will dig it up, not sure where it was published, might have been in one of his later publications... that is after he got booted from his creation.


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## lordxaviar (Nov 16, 2010)

*this kinda goes with the barrels.*

This list of prices are located oddly or   based on prices already in  the PH, DMG   or AE; Or are just made up based on real life prices and yields of the middle   ages
*Alcohols*
             Item
         Price                           ```````````````````````````Wgt/ size/bottle ``````````````````````              Yield   and page                   `````````````````Yields / DC
Wine common, 
red or white `````````````````````                    .1/ pint*                           .8/ gal `````````````````````````*PH page 129

             Wine common Dessert ``````````````````        .5 /pnt

             Wine fine                        ``````````````````````````1.21/pint*                      `9.66 /gal (9gold, 6 silver, and
                                                                         ``````````````````````````````````6 copper or   10 gp bottle                    Sm barrel 36 gp   7.5 gallons,`````````*PH page 129 
                                                                                                                                       Broken down by 26.5 oz per bottle

             Spirits (brandy)[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] ````````````````            3.75 /pint                         30/ Gal (36-39 for 5-18 yr old 
                                                                          ``````````````````````````````and 45/Gal   for 20 yr old) ```````````````````````````````1 barrel of wine 
````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````````=1/3 barrel   of brandy, 
                                                                            `````````````````````````````````````````````````````````aged = minus additional 20-30% (5-18 years(rare 20yrs 38% loss)
                                                                                ``````````````````````````````````````````````````````128oz wine (1 gal) yields 34 oz or just over   a quart, of 5 yr old aged brandy.
             Tun of cider (250 gal.)``````````````             8                                                                                             ``````````````````````````````````````````````2ed PH pg 68
             Tun of good wine (250 gal.) ````````    20 ``````````````````````````````````````````````                                                                                           2ed PH pg 68

[FONT=&quot][1][/FONT] Brandy is made from a low alcohol (8%) very acidic wine. Cognac is made only from white grapes (ugi blanc) and only from the Cognac region


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## Persiflage (Nov 17, 2010)

lordxaviar said:


> Barrel, hogshead ```````````                    63 Gal-````````````````````````*
> Barrel, puncheon ```````````                    84 Gal-````````````````````````*
> Barrel butt ````````````````                              126 Gal-```````````````````````*
> Barrel tun                                ``````````````````252 Gal-```````````````````````*
> ...




No, it isn't!  I put it to you that you've never had a job that involved moving beer barrels around...   

252 gallons isn't nearly as much as it sounds.  A beer tun holds 1311 litres (gallons vary so much from country to country and even with different materials measured that I don't want to use them for fear of confusing myself), or 1,311,000 cubic centimetres.  Assuming a cylindrical shape for ease of calculation, a tun 10' (304.8cm, or 3.048m) across as you described would be a fraction short of 18cm tall... or a shade over 7 inches.  

Remember, the volume of a cylinder increases with the _square_ of the radius.  

I have no idea where you've got the heights for those barrel sizes, either.  A US half-barrel keg (15.75 gallons) that you have listed as 4' tall is in reality only 23.4 inches tall by 17 inches in diameter (roughly).


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## athos (Nov 18, 2010)

Wine barrels hold about 55 gallons.  Full, this would mean the wine weighed about 440 lbs, so they must be quite sturdy, having steel bands around them.  As a side note, the best wines come from vineyards that only produce about 5 barrels per acre, which is considered very low yield.  Living here in wine country, you see a lot of people cut these old barrels in half and plant a tomato vine in them.  They are big enough to grow stuff in, but empty, they are light enough to carry, pretty good engineering if you ask me


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## lordxaviar (Nov 19, 2010)

radius.  

I have no idea where you've got the heights for those barrel sizes, either.  A US half-barrel keg (15.75 gallons) that you have listed as 4' tall is in reality only 23.4 inches tall by 17 inches in diameter (roughly).[/QUOTE]


 from actual hand made wood barrels, made in the style of the late 14th century.  though I didnt hand measure them.

I know most Dms dont even use weight, Im sure even less use actual dimensions.    Your demeaning tone in your writing is sad..... Remember its a game!  I dont see you posting any free information for others to use!

My thanx to the postive comments and emails.

x


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## lordxaviar (Nov 23, 2010)

Ok I looked back into it...  This what i was looking at...
The Heidelberg Tun or Grosses Fass holds over 220,000 litres (58,000 US gallons) and stands an impressive six metres high.


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## lordxaviar (Nov 30, 2010)

Sorrowdusk said:


> IS that article availiable online?





A note from the editors
Silver, Gold and Money in a Fantasy World and d20
Coins or any other varying types of mediums of exchange have been a part of the human experience for many thousands
of years. Generally fashioned from small chips of various metals, shells, valuable stones, ceramic beads and even spices,
coins and their counterparts took on a wide variety of shapes and sizes, not to mention weight. Earlier societies made
coins from gold, silver, copper, bronze and other metals which they deemed valuable. The value of a particular coin and
its metal varied wildly from region to region. As history progressed two types of coins rose to dominance, bronze in
China and silver in Greece and Rome.* The overwhelming power and influence of these three societies in their regions
left an imprint on the all the adjacent regions. These metals were chosen for a wide variety of reasons far too numerous
to mention here, but frequently had, as their basis, some type of common medium of exchange. In Greece, for example
the Ox served as the universally prized commodity upon which the money systems was based. Suffice it to say, that
values ranged from area to area.
What then to do about money. Anyone creating or dealing with a fantasy world is met with the question of how to
establish a money market system. Is one to use coins or some of other medium of exchange? What are coins? What
metals are used in their making? How is value set? These are questions which, if realistically dealt with, are almost
impossible to answer unless you concentrate on one society, one culture, one people and one time. It is doubtful if the
Greek stater (silver or gold) would have meant as much to the Chinese merchant as to an Anatolian one. What then to
do?
Mr. Gygax chose the simplest approach. By following the modern standard of the dollar, he establishes a clear value in
dollar signs of any given metal. Gold for instance is worth $500. Silver, a less precious item is worth $10 and bronze,
at even less, at just under $1. His values are roughly based on those that dominated the Renaissance when gold began
to establish itself as the common metal with the greatest value and are set at a 1-10-500 standard.
As concerns the d20 game, there is no correct equation of the standard set by Mr. Gygax. This is largely due to the
established rate of exchange in d20 where a gold coin is only 10 times more valuable than a silver one.† Seemingly gold
in d20 is undervalued immensely or more plentiful than historically available on earth. However, the Core rule books
nowhere state how much of any given metal is in any given coin only that each coin weighs a third of an ounce. In order
to follow the clear and logical guidelines set down in the text we have developed a value of metals chart specifically for
the d20 game. You will find that chart on page 103. Furthermore the equations listed below allow for greater cohesion
between Mr. Gygax’s text and the d20 system. They are developed off of a silver standard. Silver being the base.
$1 is roughly equivalent to 5copper coins
$10 is roughly equivalent to 5silver coins
$500 is roughly equivalent to 25gold coins
This assumes that one silver coin possesses .2 ounces of silver in it and that one gold coin possesses .04 ounces of gold
in it. It can be assumed that gold coins are smaller than silver coins or are simply coated in gold.
* These notes reference the Sung Dynasty and it is recognized that the Chinese also produced iron coins. Greece used
gold and electrum and Rome bronze as well.
† As I write this gold is valued on the market at $240 per ounce, silver at $4 per ounce.
The Troll Lords
Stephen Chenault
Davis Chenault
Todd Grey


from Gary gygax's World builder. I have it in pdf. I think it is in GG living fantasy as well.


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## lordxaviar (Nov 30, 2010)

now does any one have a conversion from 1.0 to 3.5   the major change was the 1p-10g-100s-1000c from
1p-5g-100s or 10e-1000c If i recall correctly... just pulled from memory...


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