# Dread necromancer feats......



## Question (May 18, 2006)

What feats would be useful for a dread necromancer? Theres one that allows you to heal negative energy as undead isnt it, for charnel touch?

Also am i missing something with the corpse crafter feat? I can use summon undead V to create a mummy with +32(8 hit dice x 4) enchantment bonus to strength?

The drad necroamncer seems to be (mostly) about summong and buffing undead. Am i correct?


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## Question (May 18, 2006)

BUMP.

Btw does the negative energy burst heal the DN if he has tomb tained soul?


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## Sejs (May 18, 2006)

Question said:
			
		

> What feats would be useful for a dread necromancer? Theres one that allows you to heal negative energy as undead isnt it, for charnel touch?



 Charnel Touch is a class feature of the Dread Necromancer.  It's not a feat, it's just an ability they get.  The feat you're thinking of is Tomb-Tainted Soul, from Libris Mortis.  Any of the corpsecrafter feat chain would be good.  Dark Speech from the BoVD (as well as any number of other vile feats, if that's your kinda thing) would fit.  Spell Focus (necromancy) if you want to get real basic.  There are plenty of good options for a DN.



> Also am i missing something with the corpse crafter feat? I can use summon undead V to create a mummy with +32(8 hit dice x 4) enchantment bonus to strength?



 I don't know where you're getting the idea that you multiply the strength bonus times... anything.  Corpsecrafter gives the undead (the mummy, in this case) a +4 enhancement bonus to strength.  It also gives it +2hp per HD.



> The dread necromancer seems to be (mostly) about summong and buffing undead. Am i correct?



 Summoning or creating undead, augmenting undead, debilitating enemies, and using death, disease, and negative energy to various ends.  That's the Dread Decromancer in a nutshell.



> Btw does the negative energy burst heal the DN if he has tomb tained soul?



 Yes, it would.  Just as it would any normal undead creature in its area.


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## satori01 (May 18, 2006)

Technically they can use Divine Metamagic spells since they can Rebuke Undead.


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## Seeten (May 19, 2006)

First thing I'd take is Tomb Tainted Soul, allows you to heal yourself, as well as your undead, from LM


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## Nightfall (May 19, 2006)

Also consider using other divine feats since they can rebuke undead.


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## Question (May 19, 2006)

I didnt mean charnel touch was a feat, i meant you could use it to heal yourself if you took tomb tainted soul right?

I took improved init, improved toughness, empower spell, divine metamagic and tomb tainted soul. Good choices?


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## Seeten (May 19, 2006)

I am dying to play this class. I love it. I dont like improved init, nor do I like imp tough, I love necromantic presence/might, though.


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## Sejs (May 19, 2006)

Question said:
			
		

> I didnt mean charnel touch was a feat, i meant you could use it to heal yourself if you took tomb tainted soul right?
> 
> I took improved init, improved toughness, empower spell, divine metamagic and tomb tainted soul. Good choices?




Ultimatly? No. Some of those are good, others.. meh.

I'd personally go with: Tomb Tainted Soul, and 4 from the following list:

-Undead Leadership (get something incorporeal as your cohort, if possible.  Plus you're already charisma-based, so your leadership score'll be quite nice). 
-Divine Metamagic and Maximize Spell.
-Corpsecrafter and either Deadly Chill, Destructive Retribution, or both.
-Dark Speech
-Arcane Mastery


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## Nightfall (May 19, 2006)

Pass on Dark speech. Arcane Mastery is a good choice. Otherwise I agree, no need for some of those feats.


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## satori01 (May 19, 2006)

Spell Focus Necromancy is probably a must have.  Tomb Tainted Soul will be a wasted feat at 20th level when you turn into a Lich, but otherwise is a good choice.

I would pass on Corpsecrafter, as class powers replicate the feat in many ways.


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## Nightfall (May 19, 2006)

True but some of them are better than others.

In any case maybe there'll be a feat or two in FC I that might be useful to necromancers. (Hey Orcus does like em!  )


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## Question (May 19, 2006)

Arcane mastery.....from where?Why maximise instead of empower?


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## Seeten (May 19, 2006)

Using new PHBII "Retraining" rules, trade out Tomb Tainted Soul when you turn into a lich. Problem solved.


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## Nightfall (May 19, 2006)

Well that's another idea sure.


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## Seeten (May 19, 2006)

If I were the DM I'd allow a trade of Tomb Tainted for Turn Resistance.


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## Nightfall (May 19, 2006)

Before or after lichdom?


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## RigaMortus2 (May 19, 2006)

There is also Extra Turning.  Probably only useful if you go the Divine feat route...

I wonder if they have any spells that would be really good with a Divine Metamagic Persistant Spell?

You could always take Arcane Disciple to add more spells to your spell list.


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## Seeten (May 19, 2006)

After, imp turn resist  requires undead type to take


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## Nightfall (May 19, 2006)

Right just was making sure.


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## Sejs (May 19, 2006)

Arcane Mastery's from Complete Arcane.  It basically lets you take 10 on caster level checks, such as dispels and overcoming spell resistance.  It's very useful.

I say maximize over empower for similar reason.  The payout is similar to empower, but with maximize you never get lowballed.  With empower you -can- get more, but by the same token, you can also get less.  Maxing always gives a satisfactory result.

As others have pointed out, a number of feats get eclipsed later on (corpsecrafter's str bonus, and tomb tainted soul when you become a lich), however you also need to consider the getting there as well as the destination. 

Yes, tomb tainted soul is useless once you become a lich... at 20th level.  However, for all 19 of those levels before then it's absolute solid gold because you can heal yourself like nobody's business. 

Corpsecrafter is indeed eclipsed by one of the DN's class features at I believe 8th? 10th? Somewhere around there.  However, it's also the pre-req for things that arn't replicated, such as your undead dealing +1d6 cold damage with all their attacks, or exploding in a burst of negative energy when they're destroyed.  Plus the added hitpoints would still stack, which is pure gravy.  Make sure you create your undead in a _desecrated_ area and you can wind up with some pretty damn tough servants (d12+5 hp per hd? yes, please)


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## Question (May 19, 2006)

Maximise also takes 3 turning attempts instead of empower's 2.

Desecreated requires....unhallow spell doesnt it?


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## Seeten (May 19, 2006)

Or the spell Desecrate


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## Vysirez (May 20, 2006)

AFAIK Divine Metamagic only works for divine spells. Don't have my books handy for quotes though. Just going off regular reading of the WOTC Char Optimization boards.


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## Sithobi1 (May 20, 2006)

Yeah, it's in the errata.


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## Koldun (May 21, 2006)

Seeten said:
			
		

> Or the spell Desecrate




Oddly enough, Desecrate isn't even on the DNs spell list, nor is it illegible for the Advanced Learning class feature, since its Evocation and not Necromancy..

Real odd...

_Edit_
After double checking, I don't even think you can use unhallow.. Desecrate isn't on the list of affects you can attach to the spells area.
Tough luck for the Dread Necromancer


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## Sithobi1 (May 21, 2006)

Extra spell...


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## Sejs (May 22, 2006)

Koldun said:
			
		

> Oddly enough, Desecrate isn't even on the DNs spell list, nor is it illegible for the Advanced Learning class feature, since its Evocation and not Necromancy..
> 
> Real odd...
> 
> ...




Wow, talk about oversight.  

Well, if nothing else, you could always do personal spell research to cook up a Dread Necro version of Desecrate, with DM approval.  It's perfectly appropriate for theme, after all.


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## DevoutlyApathetic (May 22, 2006)

Sejs said:
			
		

> Wow, talk about oversight.
> 
> Well, if nothing else, you could always do personal spell research to cook up a Dread Necro version of Desecrate, with DM approval.  It's perfectly appropriate for theme, after all.




I think the undeath or such domain has desecrate at 2nd and animate dead at 3rd.  Arcane Devotee would have you desecrate 1/day and animating dead a whole two levels earlier.  You need a 13 wisdom and a feat but it's almost worth it.


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## Seeten (May 22, 2006)

Arcane Disciple. Arcane Disciple is incredible, yes


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## Sejs (May 22, 2006)

DevoutlyApathetic said:
			
		

> I think the undeath or such domain has desecrate at 2nd and animate dead at 3rd.  Arcane Devotee would have you desecrate 1/day and animating dead a whole two levels earlier.  You need a 13 wisdom and a feat but it's almost worth it.




Very good point, doubly so with the being able to Animate sooner.  I mean that's pretty much your bread and butter as a necromancer anyway.

Good call.


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## Seeten (May 22, 2006)

Undeath Domain: 1st Detect Undead 2nd Desecrate 3rd Animate Dead 4th Death Ward 5th Circle of Death 6th Create Undead 7th Control Undead 8th Create Greater Undead 9th Energy Drain

For us, that means we gain: Desecrate, Animate Dead(3rd instead of 4th, worth it alone), and Circle of Death. Everything else is duplicated.

Only other decent Domain with Desecrate is "Evil" and while not as many spells are duplicated, the other stuff is generally not so hot, and worse, Animate Dead isnt on there at 3.


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## Staffan (May 22, 2006)

Sejs said:
			
		

> Well, if nothing else, you could always do personal spell research to cook up a Dread Necro version of Desecrate, with DM approval.  It's perfectly appropriate for theme, after all.



Given that the Dread Necromancer is an arcane class, I don't think _desecrate_ is all that appropriate after all. I have trouble thinking of more divine-appropriate spells than consecrate and desecrate.

Also, at higher levels the dread necromancer gets the ability to make superior undead anyway, so it's only a loss for the levels in between.


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## Sejs (May 22, 2006)

Staffan said:
			
		

> Given that the Dread Necromancer is an arcane class, I don't think _desecrate_ is all that appropriate after all. I have trouble thinking of more divine-appropriate spells than consecrate and desecrate.



 *shrug* Desecrate floods an area with negative energy, which the DN already deals heavily in.  Heck, a good chunk of their spell list already comes from the clerics'.

My measuring stick on the matter's pretty short, by even my own standards: Does it deal with the undead in a way that isn't nice?  If yes, then it's dandy.


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## Question (May 22, 2006)

What is arcane disciple?


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## Sejs (May 22, 2006)

Question said:
			
		

> What is arcane disciple?




A feat that lets an arcane caster select one cleric domain from their deity's list, basically.  There's more to it, but that's the short version.


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## Seeten (May 23, 2006)

Question said:
			
		

> What is arcane disciple?




A feat from Complete Arcane. Lets you be the Arcane Disciple of a God/Goddess or Greater Power able to grant spells. You pick a Domain of theirs, such as Undeath, in this case, and you can learn how to cast all those Divine spells as Arcane spells.

I have used it for a Greyhawk Necromancer of Nerull to good effect, in the past.

It would be amazing for Dread Necro.


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## Endur (Jul 13, 2006)

My thoughts ....
I think the Dread Necromancer's _Undead Mastery _ (level 8) ability which grants +4 str, +4 dex, and +2 hit points per level is supposed to replace the need for the Desecrate spell or the Corpse Crafter feat.

_Tomb Tainted _ is a neat idea as a feat, but a little too "rules gamey" for me and no longer necessary once you become a Lich.  If I'm going to heal myself with necromantic magic, i want it to be at the expense of someone else (_Vampiric Touch_, etc.).

Feats that look neat:
Undead Leadership (Libris Mortis)--Even more undead, for those hordes that we love.
Spell Focus Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus Necromancy
Black Lore of Moil (Complete Arcane) -- Extra damage when you need it, very useful for AOE spells.  
Profane Lifeleech (Libris Mortis) -- Divine feat so you can use your rebuke undead attempts to hurt nearby enemies and heal yourself.  Supernatural so if you can't cast spells for some reason, you can still blast in an area of effect.

Life Drain (Libris Mortis) -- Inflict extra damage equal to your chr bonus when draining a level and gain extra temporary hit points.  Good feat for level 12+.  Likewise, the Improved Energy Drain and Spell Drain from Libris Mortis are neat feats.  Spell Drain in particular, since if you drain a level from a wizard, you will steal one of his most powerful spells.

Mother Cyst -- If you think the Necrotic Cyst spells are interesting, you get access to all of them by taking this feat.

So, my feat progression might be
Human Dread Necromancer
Level 1: Profane Lifeleech, Spell Focus Necromancy
Level 3: Greater Spell Focus Necromancy
Level 6: Undead Leadership
Level 9: Black Lore of Moil or Mother Cyst
Level 12: Life Drain
Level 15: Improved Energy Drain
Level 18: Spell Drain


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## Endur (Jul 15, 2006)

Some more thoughts on feat progression ...

Human Dread Necromancer
Level 1: Profane Lifeleech (LM), Spell Focus Necromancy
Level 3: Greater Spell Focus Necromancy
Level 6: Undead Leadership (LM)
Level 9: Corpse Crafter (LM)
Level 12: Bolster Resistance (libris mortis)
Level 15:  Hardened Flesh (Lm)
Level 18: Destruction Retribution (LM)

Magic Item: Rod of Undead Mastery (LM)

From levels 1-7, the real focus is on spellcasting, so Spell Focus Necromancy, Greater Spell Focus, and Profane Lifeleech is what the character survives on along with Charnel Touch.

At level 8 with Undead Mastery, the character starts creating large numbers of undead.


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