# Fan requests



## Colmarr (Apr 11, 2011)

Are the Zeitgeist team interested in getting some fan requests before the campaign goes public?


If so, please consider these mine:
including or hosting high-res versions of any encounter maps (preferrably without room numbers and monsters); so that maptool/fantasy grounds etc groups can use them as battle maps; and
identifying which NPCs are intended to be returning characters, either in a campaign overview or within the text of each adventure. This was such a problem with WotC's _Scales of War_ that fans had to create their own wiki.


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## Morrus (Apr 11, 2011)

We're thinking of including an NPC summary in each adventure. Two, in fact - one for the players (a handout which lists the NPCs they've met and briefly reminds them who they are and what they've done so far) and one for the DM (with similar information plus additional secret DM-only information and role-playing tips). Each NPC will be accompanied by an illustration.

We haven't fully thought it through yet (it'll be the last thing we do before release), but it's in the plans.

We're also not planning on putting monsters on the battlemaps.  That's one 4E-ism that I don't like at all.  A decent DM can put the monsters wherever the hell he wants; we can offer some suggestions, but I don't see a need to make the game "colour-by-numbers".


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## Truename (Apr 11, 2011)

Morrus said:


> We're thinking of including an NPC summary in each adventure. Two, in fact - one for the players (a handout which lists the NPCs they've met and briefly reminds them who they are and what they've done so far) and one for the DM (with similar information plus additional secret DM-only information and role-playing tips). Each NPC will be accompanied by an illustration.




I love both of these ideas, and particularly the player handout. My players can't remember the WotBS NPCs to save their life. 

Zeitgeist is looking like it's going to be amazing! Really looking forward to it.

One last point--a real weakness of 4e WotBS is the combat encounter design, especially in the early adventures. Despite its flaws, this is something Scales of War got right. I hope you're giving the fights as much love as you're giving the rest of the setting.


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## KidSnide (Apr 11, 2011)

Morrus said:


> We're thinking of including an NPC summary in each adventure. Two, in fact - one for the players (a handout which lists the NPCs they've met and briefly reminds them who they are and what they've done so far) and one for the DM (with similar information plus additional secret DM-only information and role-playing tips). Each NPC will be accompanied by an illustration.




That sounds like a great idea.

-KS


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## Morrus (Apr 11, 2011)

Truename said:


> I hope you're giving the fights as much love as you're giving the rest of the setting.




Huh?  You want _encounters_?  Oh crap...


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## RangerWickett (Apr 11, 2011)

The first encounter consists entirely of British people awkwardly opening doors, finding others engaged in marginally compromising situations, and then apologizing profusely at the inconvenience they've caused as they try to back away.

I know it's an experimental design, but after the first 7 or 8 hours, I think the players will really get into the style and mood of the campaign.


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## Marius Delphus (Apr 11, 2011)

It's hell to lay out, though. I can't decide whether Delve style is really appropriate.


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## Morrus (Apr 11, 2011)

Marius Delphus said:


> It's hell to lay out, though. I can't decide whether Delve style is really appropriate.




I'm not personally keen on it. I find it restrictive rather than helpful. But others' mileage may very on that.


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## Marius Delphus (Apr 11, 2011)

Well, I'm speaking particularly of the "British people awkwardly opening doors, finding others engaged in  marginally compromising situations, and then apologizing profusely at  the inconvenience they've caused as they try to back away" encounter... Delve format sort of gets in the way of the narrative, on that one.

()


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## Morrus (Apr 11, 2011)

Marius Delphus said:


> Well, I'm speaking particularly of the "British people awkwardly opening doors, finding others engaged in  marginally compromising situations, and then apologizing profusely at  the inconvenience they've caused as they try to back away" encounter... Delve format sort of gets in the way of the narrative, on that one.
> 
> ()




Oh, I just figured that 7 pages of boxed text would make for a compelling adventure. We could let them roll a dice half way through just for giggles, though.


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## Zinovia (Apr 12, 2011)

RangerWickett said:


> The first encounter consists entirely of British people awkwardly opening doors, finding others engaged in marginally compromising situations, and then apologizing profusely at the inconvenience they've caused as they try to back away.
> 
> I know it's an experimental design, but after the first 7 or 8 hours, I think the players will really get into the style and mood of the campaign.




You could lay it out like a Choose Your Own Adventure, with the description of what's behind each door being on another page, printed upside down in small type.  "Basil timorously opened the iron-banded oak door, and averted his eyes from the scene before him.  To find out what he saw, turn to page 34 and invert your PDF reader."  Choose a font to match the feel of the story, preferably one with lots of flourishes, ligatures, and mystical symbols replacing some of the letters.  When printed at 8 point size, just deciphering it will be an adventure in itself!  Enhance the feel by using low contrast type over a grungy grey speckled background with a watermarked image.  It'll be just like those great captcha mini-games you find on websites!


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## Marius Delphus (Apr 12, 2011)

Capital! But must spread XP.


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## renau1g (Apr 16, 2011)

Morrus said:


> We're also not planning on putting monsters on the battlemaps.  That's one 4E-ism that I don't like at all.  A decent DM can put the monsters wherever the hell he wants; we can offer some suggestions, but I don't see a need to make the game "colour-by-numbers".




Thank the gods, that is one thing I hate about the 4e adventures, especially as I use a lot of their maps for PbP or printing out for at home use.


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## Colmarr (Apr 16, 2011)

renau1g said:


> Thank the gods, that is one thing I hate about the 4e adventures, especially as I use a lot of their maps for PbP or printing out for at home use.




I was experimenting with Maptool today, doing a test run for Zeitgeist by trying to create a map of Keep of the Shadowfell.

Either I'm hopeless at scaling things up/down, or the published map has an inconsistent scale. It drove me mad!


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## OnlineDM (Apr 16, 2011)

Colmarr said:


> I was experimenting with Maptool today, doing a test run for Zeitgeist by trying to create a map of Keep of the Shadowfell.
> 
> Either I'm hopeless at scaling things up/down, or the published map has an inconsistent scale. It drove me mad!




Are you using the maps from the Mad Mapper? If not, I highly recommend them. I found them to be scaled just right for a 50-pixel grid in MapTool.


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## Colmarr (Apr 17, 2011)

OnlineDM said:


> Are you using the maps from the Mad Mapper? If not, I highly recommend them. I found them to be scaled just right for a 50-pixel grid in MapTool.




Yeah, I found them after raging against WotC for about 30 mins 

But it was an interesting exercise, and one I'm hoping I won't have to repeat for Zeitgeist.


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## raptor112 (Apr 26, 2011)

My fan request is to know when the intro pack is coming out? I am really interested in adventure path.


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## Morrus (Apr 26, 2011)

raptor112 said:


> My fan request is to know when the intro pack is coming out? I am really interested in adventure path.




Soonish. The next thing coming out is WotBS #11 (imminent).


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## Colmarr (Apr 26, 2011)

Morrus said:


> Soonish.




The anticipation is killing me!


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## raptor112 (Apr 26, 2011)

Yeah soonish is kind of....vague.


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## grixxit (Apr 26, 2011)

Most of my friends checking out Zeitgeist get the feeling that firearms such as flintlocks are going to be introduced in the campaign. Will there be feat crossover for D&D 4e for the firearms or will there be a separate flint-lock feat list?


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## Colmarr (Apr 26, 2011)

raptor112 said:


> Yeah soonish is kind of....vague.




lol. The joys of the publishing industry, I guess!



grixxit said:


> Most of my friends checking out Zeitgeist get the feeling that firearms such as flintlocks are going to be introduced in the campaign. Will there be feat crossover for D&D 4e for the firearms or will there be a separate flint-lock feat list?




I'm personally hoping it will be a "counts as x-type-of-crossbow" deal, but I guess we'll know _soonish_.


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## RangerWickett (Apr 27, 2011)

Since I'm pretty sure this got posted on the 'House Rules' forum for feedback at some point, this is what we're planning for now:



*Firearms*
Firearms use explosive alchemicals to fire metal ammunition. Reloading involves drawing and tearing open a paper cartridge, which contains firedust and a bullet. The gunman pours firedust down the barrel, then packs in the bullet with a ramrod. Pistols and carbines are fairly easy to aim, but the extreme length of muskets (over five feet long) makes them unwieldy for untrained users.

Reloading takes a standard action. Normally powers that let you make multiple ranged attacks let you reload freely between attacks, but you cannot freely reload firearms in this way. For that reason, a typical character might carry a loaded firearm to use as a once-per-encounter weapon. A character who wants to use a firearm as a primary weapon should take the Firearm Expertise feat, which lets him reload as a minor action. A fully specialized gunman may also want Speed Loader, which turns it into a free action.

We understand that many gaming groups use Wizard of the Coast’s Character Builder, and that – barring revisions to the software – adding new items is impossible. For that reason, we have based each firearm on an existing crossbow. *The firearms trade a slower reload time for the brutal 2 and high crit properties. *

To give your character a firearm, just equip the analogous weapon. When you print out your character sheet, you just need to remember or mark the different traits. To give your character Firearm Expertise, instead take the feat Crossbow Expertise. You gain the same attack bonus benefit, but use the firearm feat’s faster reloading in place of the secondary benefit of the crossbow feat. Feats, abilities, and powers that apply to crossbows also apply to firearms, and any character proficient in a crossbow is proficient in the equivalent firearm.

We admit this is a bit of a kludge, but it should let you take advantage of the Character Builder’s automatic calculations of attacks and damage, while giving firearms their own unique identity.

Pistol. This weapon is analogous to a hand crossbow. 

Carbine. This weapon is analogous to a crossbow.

Musket. This weapon is analogous to a superior crossbow, from the Adventurer’s Vault.


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## grixxit (Apr 27, 2011)

Thank you, I could not have asked for a more clear answer.


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## Colmarr (Apr 27, 2011)

Agreed. Seems a simple approach. I especially like the Brutal 2 and high crit. It's a clean way of dealing with the high damage firearms are capable of.


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## NewJeffCT (Apr 27, 2011)

RangerWickett said:


> Reloading takes a standard action. Normally powers that let you make multiple ranged attacks let you reload freely between attacks, but you cannot freely reload firearms in this way. For that reason, a typical character might carry a loaded firearm to use as a once-per-encounter weapon. A character who wants to use a firearm as a primary weapon should take the Firearm Expertise feat, which lets him reload as a minor action. A fully specialized gunman may also want Speed Loader, which turns it into a free action.




I like that concept of a firearm being a once-per-encounter weapon.  That is more in line with medieval to early Renaissance firearms than what I see in many fantasy RPGs that allow firearms.

Hopefully, the character builder will eventually get modified to accommodate new weapons as well.


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## LightPhoenix (Apr 27, 2011)

raptor112 said:


> Yeah soonish is kind of....vague.




Longer than now-ish, sooner than long-ish.


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## Eccles (Apr 27, 2011)

Going back to the suggestions theme; one lovely trick they had in an old WFRP module (Power Behind the Throne) was that the DM's information an tips for running the NPC were on a strip of paper, at the top of which was the NPC's image - only upside down.

This meant that you could pre-select the NPCs coming up in a situation (it was a very social section of the campaign), fold over the image and hang it over a GM screen. It gave the players something to focus on, and in an otherwise terribly confusing whirl of social encounters was incredibly useful.

Hang on - was this in the module or was it something I did for myself? I forget... Either way, was pretty useful. 

Oh, and handouts. I love these, but I'm too cheap to print the glorious coloured handouts from the back of the WotBS modules as they'd drink ink. Maybe a less glorious download from the website?


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## Colmarr (Apr 28, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> I like that concept of a firearm being a once-per-encounter weapon. That is more in line with medieval to early Renaissance firearms than what I see in many fantasy RPGs that allow firearms.




Of course, the minute you throw firearms into the mix, someone wants to play a gunfighter (as demonstrated by my advice thread in the 4e discussion forum).


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## NewJeffCT (Apr 28, 2011)

Colmarr said:


> Of course, the minute you throw firearms into the mix, someone wants to play a gunfighter (as demonstrated by my advice thread in the 4e discussion forum).




I know what you mean on playing a gunfighter - most people have an image of guns akin to the American Wild West of the 1800s even in fantasy RPGs that are semi-based on the Medieval or early Renaissance era, or possibly even the Dark Ages.


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## malcolm_n (Apr 28, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> I know what you mean on playing a gunfighter - most people have an image of guns akin to the American Wild West of the 1800s even in fantasy RPGs that are semi-based on the Medieval or early Renaissance era, or possibly even the Dark Ages.



See, I picture the gun-wielders in Zeitgeist as more like Pirates of the Carribean or Three Musketeers.  There are a couple with the extra feats to do it quickly, but it's not prevalent.

Now, Santiago on the other hand, I'd imagine should at the least have some focus on gun fighting.  Seeing as how it's cowboy style future.  But that's just my opinion.

On topic, I like the way ya'll handled guns for Zeitgeist.  I'm really looking forward to the "soon-ish" release of the player's stuff.  As for requests...  I guess I would only ask that you keep up the good work


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## Colmarr (Apr 28, 2011)

NewJeffCT said:


> I know what you mean on playing a gunfighter - most people have an image of guns akin to the American Wild West of the 1800s even in fantasy RPGs that are semi-based on the Medieval or early Renaissance era, or possibly even the Dark Ages.




I'm not sure it's an image problem. I suspect most adult gamers are knowledgeable enough about early firearms to know what a flintlock weapon was actually like. I think it's more that the pop culture references that inspire people to want to play gunfighters are either 'Wild west' or 'John Woo', neither or which include standing still for 10 seconds while you load another shot 



malcolm_n said:


> See, I picture the gun-wielders in Zeitgeist as more like Pirates of the Carribean or Three Musketeers. There are a couple with the extra feats to do it quickly, but it's not prevalent.




Excellent analogy re: PotC.

Incidentally, I received some excellent advice from Klaus about modelling this type of stand-up shoot-out character using the Thief class from Essentials, so it is doable even without houseruling.


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## Marius Delphus (Apr 29, 2011)

Colmarr said:


> The anticipation is killing me!



Well, try to survive a little while longer, as there may be some delay occasioned by Wednesday's storms in Alabama (and elsewhere).

I'm writing from Middle Tennessee, where they actually have electricity....


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## Colmarr (Apr 30, 2011)

Marius Delphus said:


> Well, try to survive a little while longer, as there may be some delay occasioned by Wednesday's storms in Alabama (and elsewhere).




Nooooooooooo! 

How about you preview something else for those of us who are jonesing for some Zeitgeist?


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