# Assassin City - DM Discussion Thread



## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Ok, here it is Blackrat.  I guess we ought to place all the junk in here, so I'm reserve a few posts.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Reserved for condensing the junk we discuss.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Also reserved for condensing the junk we discuss.


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Yep. So about religion?


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Yeah.  I thought that maybe we should lay out the actual... layout, of the city first.  That way we can decide where things are.  Important things, like churches.  Also government buildings.  Isn't this place a center of politics?  Something about diplomats meeting here and stuff?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Yeah. If I were home I could draw somekind of map pretty quick but alas, it will not be until late tomorrow before I can get to that. Let's see if I can do something with MS Paint here at work.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Well ok, let's start with this.  Say the city is broken into different sections?  How would they be ordered?  How many would their be?  I'd say that we have tiers like Minas Tirith, since you compaired it to that.  So does it get any sun in the winter when the sun is in the north?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Well It is guite south, comparing to Earth, around mid France, so I'd say that while the sun would be showing only little during winter, it would nonetheless show up. About tiers, I'd think that most of the city would actually lie on the plains before the mountain and the rich sections of the city rising on the mountain. So technically there needs to be only two tiers. The one on the flat ground and lower mountain, and the one on the mountainside. Those would be divided to wards or whatever you want to call them on different functions. So on the ground level could be for example the trades ward and the poorer temple ward.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

That sounds quite good.  I guess we've got a basic idea of the layout... so lets see, what about the government and laws?  How's the city ruled?  It's the capitol of a nation so presumably the nation's ruler lives there, right?  What kind of government do they have?  What about Domestic policy?  I'm going to say that there aren't many things in the city that there aren't many things in this city that are contraband, but what about slavery?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

So putting the city together D&D-wise:

Doringdel
Metropolis
Population: 30000 (90% human, 2% dwarf, 3%gnome/halfling, 4% goblinoids, 0.4% basic-elf, 0.1% wood/wild-elf, 0.1% half-elf, 0.4% other races.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Don't forget the "Approx." before the population number.  It is after all going to go down.    

Practically any race could conceivably appear hear since it's such a metropolis, but that seems pretty good.


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

It is a capital of a kingdom so the palace is here, on the highest part of the city. The nobility of the city could be constantly fighting for better standing within the  government so that gives a lot of demand for assassins. There should also be a strong merchants guild which is at odds with some noble houses, and has equal power in the government as any noble house.


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Don't forget the "Approx." before the population number.  It is after all going to go down.
> 
> Practically any race could conceivably appear hear since it's such a metropolis, but that seems pretty good.



Oh yeah, after the first mission that will be 29999  . Yeah, it was approx


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Slaves... what about slaves?  I'd say that human slavery is illegal but otherwise...


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

I have no problem with slavery. Probably basic goblins, as hobgoblins are more likely to be hired than slaved. And trolls are used as slaves accross the alliance.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

What about elves?  I'm sure someone would pay good money for an elven slave.


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Yeah they would, and they would need to pay even greater money to keep the elves from getting the slave back. The elves do know the arcane arts of wizardry whereas not many humans do. Which makes them extremely dangerous if angered, even if they are small in numbers.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Sorry if I'm putting you off with this.  I'm just trying to make the world a bit more dark and the city a bit more corrupt so that it's more plausible to have our assassins running around.


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

No you're not putting me off. Sorry if I seemed that way. I'm rather enjoying this . The previous post was just meant to give you things to think about just as everything else. I mean, yes it would be a prize to show at parties to have an elven slave, but if the other elves find out about this you better have means to defend your claim.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Well I suppose an elf might get enslaved due to debt.


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

That might do. There could also be the thing that elven subraces are not in too good relations with eachother and they might sell others to slavery.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

That'll work out as well, and there're always half elves.  How do they come about?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Well son, when mommy-elf and daddy-human like eachother very much... 
Seriously, elves can be flighty beings from time to time and humans are physiolocially close enough to be sometimes considered attractive.

BTW, I would like to point you my homebrew elven subspecies, the shadow-elves, who are considered the most grasefull of the elves, also the rarest of elven subspecies to actually live on this continent. One of them as a slave would be a mark of true wealth and power.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

So the elves and humans get allong well.

Any great racial enmity's in this world?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

More like those of warhammer. The dwarves distrust elves and hate hate hate goblins. The elves despise dwarves and view other races as inferior. Trolls consider all other races animals and therefore good for food. All other races consider trolls as animals and therefore good for guarding places. Orcs and dwarves fight eternal war in the mountains to northwest. The races in Everwoods view civilization as a cancer upon world which should not be allowed to spread.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

And what about humans?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Well humans of the alliance have pretty good relations with the others, except orcs, but luckily only those of the Westgate have any troubles with them. Goblins and trolls are viewed more as smart animals rather than truly sentient species so they are mostly used as slaves.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

What about other intelligent races?  Kobolds, Gnolls, Lizardfolk, Yuan-Ti, Dragons, etc?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Rare but do exist. Lizardfolk and Yuan-Ti mostly in Everwoods, Kobolds in the southern lands, Memnos and Xenera. Haven't really thought much about many of the other races but you can find places for them. They should probably be used much like they are presented in monster-books. But Dragons, now were talking. Dragons got pretty much annoyed by all these fastbreeding pests and moved to a land isolated by mountains and the desert, south of the map I provided. There are few hanging around Everwoods, few in the mountains and even few disguised as humans and living in the cities. But most of them have isolated themselves from the world.

In ancient times there was a religious order called the Dragonites, who worshipped dragons as deities and even made pacts with young dragons to carry them in battle. The order still exist but nowadays most of the Dragonriders ride wyverns because true-dragons are so rare. There are a few exceptions to this also.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Hm, that reminds me.  Religion.  We still haven't really discussed that and I'm about to go to sleep.

Well, so, what's the primary religion of this area like and what other religions are practiced here as well?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Well the primary religion would be the polytheistic pantheon with the most important deities Skaia and Aur. Skaia is worshipped by the laymen as deity of love and Aur as deity of merchants, in the pantheon there is also dozens of other deities for different aspects of life. The racial religions are used by the different races. There is also a small precence of the Order of the Dragon since modern Dragonites works as mercenaries and bodyguard and are known to be extremely good at that. The cult of Bahos has a precence in the region also despite the fact that it is illegal to worship him. He is assosiated with deprivity and exsessive hedonism.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Oh hey, what about Drow?


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## Blackrat (Dec 31, 2007)

Yes, there are drow. The underdark spans through the whole continent. They fight their own wars with themselves, duergar, mind flayers etc. And ofcourse occasionally raid surface communities.


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## Dire Lemming (Dec 31, 2007)

Hey, I just thought of something else we missed.  Languages.


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## Blackrat (Jan 2, 2008)

Never really thought about languages. I have always envisioned for every country to have it's own language but also to have a common trades language.


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 2, 2008)

That sounds good.  The Empire probably enforces a unified language on the people but In the alliance there are all sorts of languages.  Hm, what do you think about the diversity within the human population of just the city itself?  I mean how many different human languages are spoken?


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## Blackrat (Jan 2, 2008)

Well since it is the hub of trades in the alliance I'd say you could catch a conversion in any possible language during few days. Ofcourse the main language used would be that of Laradin itself, with common coming second.


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 2, 2008)

Man, this city is going to be great!  Did you ever think of adding steam punk elements, like elevators or something?


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## Rhun (Jan 2, 2008)

Blackrat said:
			
		

> Well since it is the hub of trades in the alliance I'd say you could catch a conversion in any possible language during few days. Ofcourse the main language used would be that of Laradin itself, with common coming second.




Just chiming in because I like to help where I can...In my homebrew, languages are bassed more on geographic areas / sub-species than actual countries. Some examples of how I handle this in my setting:

COMMON
The common tongue has been in use for several thousand years, and is the preferred trade language of those who travel between nations. Most educated peoples speak common in addition to their national language. Anyone who has a business or trade that brings them into common contact with travelers from outside their own lands will speak common.

VENDII
Vendii is the traditional language spoken by the Vendii peoples, those who mainly dwell in the western realms of Sivaris, Nyrithia and Glasur, and to a lesser extent in Adolia, Hellis and Volnn. For the most part, the Vendii are a proud people, and prefer to speak in their own tongue over common or other languages.

DRACONIC
Draconic is the national language of the Uldarr Empire, though it is not nearly as prolific outside of that realm’s borders. Still, it is a major language on Ailioth, if only because of the sheer size of the Uldarri realm.

FARONELL
Spoken by various clans and tribes of northmen, Faronell is most heavily spoken in Rhaynis, Ukul and to a lesser extent in Hellis. The dialect spoken in Ukul is heavily seeded with orcish and goblin words, and difficult to understand for anyone who speaks plain Faronell. The Reavers of Frostfall have been noted as speaking a dialect of Faronell as well.

AMPHAR
Spoken by the Ampharan peoples that inhabit the southwestern portion of Ailioth, Amphar is commonly spoken in Ophidia, Tarus, Jathara and Ampharus. 


Maybe that will give you guys some ideas.  And if you want me to mind my own business, just tell me to!


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 2, 2008)

Don't mind your own business.  Every little bit helps.  If I don't like an idea I just won't use it.

This _does_ give me ideas.


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## Rhun (Jan 3, 2008)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Don't mind your own business.  Every little bit helps.  If I don't like an idea I just won't use it.
> 
> This _does_ give me ideas.





Cool. World building is A LOT of work. My homebrew has been a work in progress for something like...twenty years. LOL.


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## Blackrat (Jan 3, 2008)

Welcome to our little brainstorm Rhun. Cool ideas about languages.


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## Blackrat (Jan 3, 2008)

More worldbuilding. Info that is probably unrelevant to the life on Doringdel but if you ever decide to use NPC human wizards might come in handy. As you can see from the map both Tir Sigl and Tir Lanan sit on islands. They are magocratic citystates where ones skills in arcane arts dictate the social standing. Those who have no arcane power are serfs who do all the manual labor to keep the mighty fed. In these cities about 15% of the population are wizards or other less freguent arcane casters. Sorcerors are rare even here and their power is considered inferior to the real Wizards. (It's just a cultural thing ) The cities are protectet by energydomes which prevent any sentient who can't cast arcane spells to enter or leave. (The spell required to pass this field is Knock. It makes a hole in the field that stays open for 10 minutes allowing the wizard to let in or out those who he deems worthy or necessary.) The "leaders", the highest archmages of these cities are Elendur Nightwalker of Tir Sigl (The mightiest mortal in the whole world and half-shadow elf by race. Also a member of Order of the Dragon) and Malazan the Black of Tir Lanan (A lich who spends most of his time on other planes keeping the denizens of Other Side from invading the material plane). Elendur is the favourite subject of songs and stories told by minstrels across the lands, and therefore even the lowliest peasants know his name.


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## Blackrat (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey. During my move I happened to find my old campaign notes from the only time I had luck running this setting (I hope with 4e I can try again) and there was a section on religion I had completely forgotten eventhough it's pretty nice touch. I'll share with you.
The main religion which is the polytheistic pantheon (I think I should name this pantheon as a whole. maybe Arandonian Pantheon).

So anyway the religion consentrates more on the whole pantheon than on the individual gods. The laymen worship all the deities equally so for normal classes choosing a deity is forgone, unless they choose different faith altogether. Also most priests are priests of the whole pantheon but here there are few exceptions (I'll address that later). There are also no multitude of temples dedicated to different deities but instead there is only one temple in each city, which is dedicated for the whole pantheon. It depends on the time of the year and specific occasion, to which deity the rites are dedicated on any given time.

The assosiation of priests: The female priestesses of the faith are assosiated with Skaia and the male priests are associated with Aur, eventhough they are always adversaries of the whole faith. Also since the lesser portfolios of Skaia and Aur include winter and summer the rituals are performed by priestesses from mid-autumn to mid spring and priests during the summer half of year. On equinox's there is grand celebration which culminates in a ritual combat between High-priestess and High-priest. The combat ends in the victory of the priestess on autumn-equinox and of the priest on spring-equinox, and marks the change of the temple calendar.

There are few exceptions. A priest can choose to dedicate his/her service to a specific lesser deity and take care of a shrine of said deity. Most deities have small shrines scattered across the land. These are usually situated on some holy sites and consists of little more than an altar and a cabin nearby where the caretaker lives. The shrines are locations of pilgrimages and most deities don't have more than a few in the whole world.

The Grand Temples: The three major deities have also grand temples which are the center of worship of these deities (Actually they are for the three what the shrines are for the lesser deities.)

Skaia's Grand Temple, The Crystal Palace of Lake-End is a magnificant palace made of purest crystals. Skaia also has an oracle who resides here. She is considered the physical manifestation of the goddess of love and it is true her power is great. (One of the few true clerics of the world)

Aur's Grand Temple, The Sunhall is nothing more than a ring of columns on an island on Shrin. Here some mystical force keeps the weather always clear and the priests manning this temple live on the bare ground.

The Warrior's Grand temple is on a mountaintop near Doringdel. It is forbidding place and the way there is filled with danger. The temple itself is a great arena where the greatest warriors across the lands come to test their mettle against eachother and the priests of Warrior.



OK. That was quite long, hope you got the idea and like it.


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 7, 2008)

It's all quite interesting.  I'd like to know about the combat's though.  I assume that the combat's between priestess and priest are just for show and not to the death?  What about the warrior temple combats?


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## Blackrat (Jan 7, 2008)

Yeah it's just for show. The weapons used are ofcourse real but the combat itself is heavily coreocraphied and strictly scripted.

The battles on the Grand Temple of the Warrior are always real combats with rules decided by the combatants. The most common view is that the Warrior doesn't take revel in bloodshed but rather in physical challenge and honour of fair fight so it is usually agreed on first blood or something similar. But he has some more fanatical followers too who take pride in berserker bloodbaths so one needs to take care of who to challenge.


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 7, 2008)

Ok. That reminds me. Would it be terribly out of place for theater performances to use slaves to represent characters that are getting killed and actually kill them?  I've heard that was sometimes done in Greek theater.  Yes, it's quite disturbing, but that's what I'm going for.  Presumably it would be rather rare since slaves are after all worth money.


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## Blackrat (Jan 7, 2008)

Yeah why not. Especially non-human slaves. After all, a goblin can be easily masked to look like a human even if it is considered a little more than an animal.


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 7, 2008)

Ok.  Something to put into a disturbingly decadent section at some point.  

Oh hey, that's right!  What do you say to this?  Laradin is ruled by a fifteen year old queen who is mostly just a figurehead!  And another random idea!  It's fairly common for men to take their wives' last names.  Not really prevalent, but no one local will be all that surprised by it.  Oh yeah, and the royal color, what's the royal color?  If you don't have one let's make it purple.  They apparently have allot of snails in Laradin.


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## Blackrat (Jan 7, 2008)

Hey the priest class. I totally forgot to write you that and now I already have my computer moved to the new flat without a connection. Well it was anyways only modification to bard so I can go it through here.

First take the bard class and rename it to priest.
-Rename Bardic Music as Blessing Chant
-Replace Bardic Knowledge with Paladin's Turn Undead
-Remove all Dex-based skills from class-skills
-Change saves so that it has good fort instead of good ref
-Remove alignment restriction
-Change spells to be divine instead of arcane origin

I think that was it, except for some nixing of the spell-list.

Other priestly classes:

Paladins: All priests of The Warrior are paladins with the variants from UA, after first level they can multiclass freely. The Warrior is considered true neutral, and accepts worshipers of any alignment. So two priests of The Warrior might be very different from eachother. One respects honour and fair fight while other goes berserk and slaughters his enemies. Those paladins who are priests of The Warrior don't have the association restriction eventhough they shun those of opposing alignments.

Clerics: Clerics are direct chosen of gods and therefore rare. Most gods have a maximum of one cleric but some greater deities might have even as many as ten. So they are RARE!

Druids: Druids are as rare as clerics and are only found in the Everwoods. They are the protectors of the wilds of the Everwoods.


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## Blackrat (Jan 7, 2008)

Dire Lemming said:
			
		

> Ok.  Something to put into a disturbingly decadent section at some point.
> 
> Oh hey, that's right!  What do you say to this?  Laradin is ruled by a fifteen year old queen who is mostly just a figurehead!  And another random idea!  It's fairly common for men to take their wives' last names.  Not really prevalent, but no one local will be all that surprised by it.  Oh yeah, and the royal color, what's the royal color?  If you don't have one let's make it purple.  They apparently have allot of snails in Laradin.



Yeah those are all good  . Don't mind if I snatch those to my own games too   ?


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## Blackrat (Jan 7, 2008)

Oh, and that's one freaking smelly job of making purple dye. Whoever does that will be rich to the extreme but smells so bad that no-one wants to socialize with him  .


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## Blackrat (Jan 8, 2008)

I went and wrote quick rules for garrote. I just made them up so they haven't been playtested or anything. See if you like. If there's something in need of clarifying do ask.

[sblock]To use a garrote you need to first be able to catch your victim in a way that he is unable to defend himself properly (meaning that he is denied dex for his AC). You must also be able to reach for your victims neck, that means the victim can't be more than one size category larger than you, unless it is lying down or you can attack from above.

If these conditions apply you can try to make a special garrote attack:
-First you make a melee touch attack which provokes an AoO. If you don't hit the attempt fails.
-You make opposed grapple checks with your victim. If you win the check you begin strangling the victim. If you lose the victim manages to free himself. (Different types of garrote give modifiers to this check)
-A strangling victim must make a fortitude save of DC 15 to prevent his throat from rupturing. The save must be repeated each round, with the DC increasing by +1 for each previous success. Also every round he succeeds the save you need to make a new grapple check to see if he manages to free himself.
-When the victim fails one of these fortitude checks, he begins to suffocate. In the first round, he falls unconscious (0 hit points). In the following round, he drops to -1 hit points and is dying. In the third round, he dies.

Different garrotes:

-Improvised Garrote (rope, rolled towel etc): -2 penalty on grapple checks to maintain garrote attack.
-Normal Garrote (String with loops on both end) no bonus on grapple checks to maintain garrote attack.
-Wire Garrote (Wire with handles) +2 bonus on grapple checks to maintain garrote attack.
-Locking Garrote (Wire Garrote with a locking mechanism) -4 on the first grapple check because you need to consentrate on locking it to place. But after that you can leave the victim and he needs to make grapple checks against your normal grapple bonus.[/sblock]


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 10, 2008)

Ok.  I did check these out.  They look good, I just need some way to make stats for NPCs without making up a whole character sheet, otherwise every battle would end up taking days to start.


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## Blackrat (Jan 10, 2008)

I could probably help you out with that. I have e-tools and it can make stock-npc's pretty quick. If you send me an email (I have the option enabled on the en world), I get automatically your email address and can send statblocks to you when you tell what sort of npc you want. The statblocks that e-tools write are not conclusive, but they give you most what you could need.


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## Dire Lemming (Jan 10, 2008)

Wow, thanks.  That could be really helpful.


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## Blackrat (Jan 10, 2008)

Answered your email


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