# The Dungeons and Dragons II: Wraith of the Dragon God spoiler filled thread.



## KenM (Oct 8, 2005)

Going to be on Sci Fi in a few hours. Let the discussion begin.


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## Wormwood (Oct 8, 2005)

I maintain that it would make a decent module (except for Falizure's appearance at the end—replace it with a half-fiend great-wyrm dracolich and be done with it).


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## Alzrius (Oct 8, 2005)

I wish that Klex the Malign (the lich) had looked more lich-like. I picture liches as being laregely skeletal, with sunken skin clinging to their bones, and the trademark pinpoints of light in their eye-sockets. Klex was a cool character who just didn't get the visuals he deserved.

Did it also strike anyone else as weird that he seemed to go out of his way to try and be useful/loyal to Damodar until the end (when victory seemed assured), and then abandoned him? And what was that creature he kept _polymorphing_ into?


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## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

Ah, there is some connection with the first movie.  In the credits, it mentions "Sweatpea" whatzit. Which is the company that did the first. (I know this because they also were the people financing Marc Miller's Traveller).


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

So far ... like the MM illustrations at the beginning, and the occasional Greyhawk nod (Temple of Obad-Hai).

LOL at mage multi-classing to cleric, and failing to cast a _mending_ orison.

Nice use of _gust of wind_.

Wouldn't a (Colossal) sleeping dragon wake if you lifted its eyelid?


Credits: ARGH!  Courtney Solomon is the executive producer!


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

How many people wanted to turn it off when they saw Courtney Soloman's name in the credits? I thought he had nothing to do with this one.
Nice work in of the artributes.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Ooh .. they stormed the Ghost tower of Inverness!  Why couldn't they tell that story?

Fighter, cleric, elf wizard, halfling rogue ... an almost quintessential party.  Interesting choice of the female barbarian as #5.  Or is Lord Beric supposed to be a paladin?

Edit: You'd thing WOTC would be advertising D&D during this.

Edit2: And so there was a D&D commercial ... but it sucked!


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Edit: You'd thing WOTC would be advertising D&D during this.





  Ask and you shall recive.


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## shaylon (Oct 9, 2005)

Hey D&D commercial during the break here!  Awesome!!

-Shay


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## d20Dwarf (Oct 9, 2005)

Wait a minute...I just heard a sound clip from one of the Baldur's Gate games (I think it was the console game Dark Alliance 2) as they were panning in on Ismer. It was the bird/nature sound you get when walking through the woods. I know that's what it was.


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## Alzrius (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Fighter, cleric, elf wizard, halfling rogue ...




I don't think the rogue is supposed to be a halfling.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

No dwarf??  :\


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## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

> Wait a minute...I just heard a sound clip from one of the Baldur's Gate games (I think it was the console game Dark Alliance 2) as they were panning in on Ismer. It was the bird/nature sound you get when walking through the woods. I know that's what it was.




Most 70s TV shows (and some movies) used the exact same shot of lightning.  They use stuff like and sounds that from a film library. Even today, you still occasionally hear the same sound effects for video games that you heard in the early 80s on TV. (Ie, when a character is supposedly playing a game)


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Cool Barrier Peaks reference.   And they got the magmin personality right.

I certainly don't miss the blue lipstick from the first movie.


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## Alzrius (Oct 9, 2005)

I like to think that when Damodar said he was a corpse creature, he wasn't speaking poetically...he actually had the template from the BoVD.


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## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

Hmmm, also lots and lots of ads for exercise equipment...


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## d20Dwarf (Oct 9, 2005)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Hmmm, also lots and lots of ads for exercise equipment...




Not here. Looks like Sci Fi Channel has finally perfected targeted advertising.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

No exercise ads here. Is the elf magic user a wizard or socerer? I don't see Her with a spell book.


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## Templetroll (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> So far ... like the MM illustrations at the beginning, and the occasional Greyhawk nod (Temple of Obad-Hai).
> 
> LOL at mage multi-classing to cleric, and failing to cast a _mending_ orison.
> 
> ...




Courtney has a lock on "D&D movie" from his deal with TSR.  No idea how many movies he gets to make.

Doing a decent job on the spells; I like the barbarian being so far out inthe run for the raft.     Nice mention of the Tower of Inverness.

I thought the D&D commercial was fine.  It was low-key and direct.  Like the movie?  play the game.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Hmmm ... we've got exercise ads.  And genital herpes ads.  Ick.  At least the running D&D ads are getting better.

Sneak attack doesn't work against undead ... check.

Turn undead ... check.

Barbarian rage ... coming, I'm sure.

Spells so far: summon monster, gust of wind, wall of fire, mending, discern location, dispel magic, vision/scrying, mention of teleport ...


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## tecnowraith (Oct 9, 2005)

So what creature is Damodar's assistant anyway?


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

tecnowraith said:
			
		

> So what creature is Damodar's assistant anyway?




 The guy putting the blodd into him? I think he is suposted to be a half orc.


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## d20Dwarf (Oct 9, 2005)

Haha, upon entering the goblin village, they find it empty of life.

Lux: "Oh no! Who could have done this?"

Me: "Any 1st-level party?"


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## Alzrius (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Spells so far: summon monster




I thought that was more of a _summon undead_ of some sort.


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## Alzrius (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> The guy putting the blodd into him? I think he is suposted to be a half orc.




They look more draconian than that...especially when you see them when Damodar is having his arm regenerated.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

Is the acid from a purple worm can eat through anything, would'nt it eat though the glass that was holding it?   
Now they have 4, the perfect party size per WOTC.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Half-orc.  He looks just like the picture labeled "half-orc" from the opening credits.

Sigh ... clerics have such bad reflex saves.

Spell list continued: fire shield (?), detect magic, lightning bolt ...


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## shaylon (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Is the acid from a purple worm can eat through anything, would'nt it eat though the glass that was holding it?
> Now they have 4, the perfect party size per WOTC.




Good point. 

I liked the 3 rules D&D commercial, although they didn't seem to do a good job of rule #2, don't kill the cleric.

Movie is decent.  Better than I expected I guess.  References to real D&D material is a pretty cool aspect IMO. 

-Shay


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> I thought that was more of a _summon undead_ of some sort.




I was thinking of the magmin ... but the lich might have cast a summon undead.



> Is the acid from a purple worm can eat through anything, would'nt it eat though the glass that was holding it?




Wouldn't it also eat through the purple worm?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Thus far better then then the first... so was that a white dragon that the cleric died to?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Half-orc.  He looks just like the picture labeled "half-orc" from the opening credits.
> 
> Sigh ... clerics have such bad reflex saves.
> 
> Spell list continued: fire shield (?), detect magic, lightning bolt ...



 Other spells include Locate Object spell, and I am not sure what Berick's wife used in the beginning but I think it was a Vision spell


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Evil Ujio said:
			
		

> Thus far better then then the first... so was that a white dragon that the cleric died to?




That's be my guess, though it was a little... grey.

Yeah, it's not Lords of the Rings, but it certainly isn't the eye-gouging horror the first movie was.

Edit: After all those other runes, the writing on the statue is in English?  They got lazy.

Ooh!  And a Shrine of the Kuo-toa reference!


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## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

Hmmm, the fitness equipment could a provider thing. Ie, cable/sat. (I have DirecTV)

I liked how when they got into the goblin shaman hut, they started looting the place first.

It does seem very D&D-ish, except the lack of raise-dead magic 


Spoiler



(though obviously that's made tricky since it's the cleric that is dead)


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

True but the rogue had a Gem of True Seeing...

and the Mage a Ring of the Ram!


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Now the magic items get their turn  ... gem of true seeing, wand of lightning, ring of the ram.

Definitely a D&D geekfest.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> It does seem very D&D-ish.....




  A movie with Dungeons and Dragons in the title better be.


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## Pseudonym (Oct 9, 2005)

I'm enjoying it so far.  The 1st ed references are enough to keep me going.  Good stuff.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Oct 9, 2005)

I just heard a reference to the Shrine of the Kuo-Toa while trying to find their way into the Vaults.  

While this movie is no cinematic landmark, or even a cinematic speedbump and only really marginally better (IMHO) than the first one; the constant sprinkling of recognizable D&Dism is a nice touch.  I'm gonna record the rest of it and watch it later, however.  It's not holding my attention at the moment.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

LOL!  And the familiar is toast!  Typical mage, only pulls the familiar out in a last pinch ...

Nice teleport mishap, too.


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## shaylon (Oct 9, 2005)

Hi Familiar!  Bye Familiar.

 

-Shay


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

That was sweet the mage got her arm stuck in the wall... the DM is having fun now....


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Now that is taking one for the team... go Mage.


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## Pseudonym (Oct 9, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> Hi Familiar!  Bye Familiar.
> 
> 
> 
> -Shay




Saw that coming  ...


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Are there rules for partial teleport mishaps and limb severing?  I need to use those IMC.

I think the "only two teleports prepared" answers the wizard/sorcerer question: wizard.


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## Pseudonym (Oct 9, 2005)

With all the old school references, when they found the mirror I thought it would be a _Mirror of Opposition_ trap.  When the Darkmantles opened their eyes, I thought they we're piercers.  Now that would have been geeky.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

Don't you need to be moving your arms for teleport? if her arm was stuck could she still cast it?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Pseudonym said:
			
		

> With all the old school references, when they found the mirror I thought it would be a _Mirror of Opposition_ trap.  When the Darkmantles opened their eyes, I thought they we're piercers.  Now that would have been geeky.



 I thought they were piercers too


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

was that the same D&D commercial that aired earlier?


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Pseudonym said:
			
		

> With all the old school references, when they found the mirror I thought it would be a _Mirror of Opposition_ trap.  When the Darkmantles opened their eyes, I thought they we're piercers.  Now that would have been geeky.




You and me both, on both counts!  Have piercers been converted for 3.5?  If so, what reference are they in?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Don't you need to be moving your arms for teleport? if her arm was stuck could she still cast it?



 Concetration check?


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## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> A movie with Dungeons and Dragons in the title better be.




Yeah, but that someone in Hollywood (or wherever this was dreamed up) knows that is amazing.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Harpies 1, party 0.  Hey, this is a real D&D campaign -- it's going to end in a TPK!



> Don't you need to be moving your arms for teleport? if her arm was stuck could she still cast it?




IIRC you only need one hand free for spellcasting.


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## d20Dwarf (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Don't you need to be moving your arms for teleport? if her arm was stuck could she still cast it?




You only need one hand to cast in 3e.

Didn't this experienced adventuring group bring *any* cure potions with them?  :\


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> LOL!  And the familiar is toast!  Typical mage, only pulls the familiar out in a last pinch ...
> 
> Nice teleport mishap, too.



I thought it was a Quaal's feathered token


I've never been into Barbarian chicks before but I may change my opinion.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

That has got to be an Ancient Black Dragon.....


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> was that the same D&D commercial that aired earlier?





  I think all the DnD ads have been different.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

"I only ask to witness the destruction of Ishmir..............and uh, to Rule over it as your thrall!"

typical evil greed.


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> "I only ask to witness the destruction of Ishmir..............and uh, to Rule over it as your thrall!"
> 
> typical evil greed.



 He is a Blackguard after my own heart.


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

I think Bruce Payne needs to give up on acting. Blue lipstick or no he just can't act.


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## Crothian (Oct 9, 2005)

So, is it worth watching?


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## DMH (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> That has got to be an Ancient Black Dragon.....




A dracolich w/ that feat that changes BW. Sigh, what is wrong with acid? It worked on Starship Troopers.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> That has got to be an Ancient Black Dragon.....




With the dracolich template.

I need to check the template -- anyone remember if it changes the dragon's breath weapon type?


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, is it worth watching?




   IMO if you are a fan of DnD, yes. Alot better then the first.


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, is it worth watching?



 For D&D fans I think so


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> With the dracolich template.
> 
> I need to check the template -- anyone remember if it changes the dragon's breath weapon type?



 Not offhand but if not the breath weapon should be acid, just told my mom this too.


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

A Doom commercial. What do you guys think? Is Doom Doomed?


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> I think *Bruce Payne needs to give up on acting*. Blue lipstick or no he just can't act.




Quoted and bolded for emphasis..


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## shaylon (Oct 9, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, is it worth watching?




I would say yes.  It isn't great but I would say it is far better than the first one.

The story has been interesting and the references are pretty cool.  The acting is average, maybe above average, for a SciFi Original pictures movie.

-Shay


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> A Doom commercial. What do you guys think? Is Doom Doomed?





So far i've liked almost every movie that The Rock has been in. He brings a certain charisma to his characters. I think I'll enjoy it overall.

*wants to see a movie where The Rock and Vin Deisel try to beat eachother up*


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Evil Ujio said:
			
		

> Not offhand but if not the breath weapon should be acid, just told my mom this too.



Your mom want to play D&D after watching the movie?


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## shaylon (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> A Doom commercial. What do you guys think? Is Doom Doomed?




There are a lot of Rock fans.  I think it will do well but it won't be a good movie.

-Shay


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> A Doom commercial. What do you guys think? Is Doom Doomed?




Yep, toast.  WHo greenlighted that crap?  Haven't they learned yet that all video game/movie crossovers crash and burn?


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## Crothian (Oct 9, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> I would say yes.  It isn't great but I would say it is far better than the first one.
> 
> The story has been interesting and the references are pretty cool.  The acting is average, maybe above average, for a SciFi Original pictures movie.
> 
> -Shay




Did you tape it like you said you were going to?  Might be a good break on night during Ironwolf's week of gaming maddness


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> So far i've liked almost every movie that The Rock has been in. He brings a certain charisma to his characters. I think I'll enjoy it overall.
> 
> *wants to see a movie where The Rock and Vin Deisel try to beat eachother up*



I've liked The Rock. He even made The Scorpian King worth watching.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

0o0o could it be the geramiums (sic) were Mystic Theurges?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> Your mom want to play D&D after watching the movie?



 Sadly probably not she is a Home and Gardens kind of lady.

But she likes fantasy movies.


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## shaylon (Oct 9, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> Did you tape it like you said you were going to?  Might be a good break on night during Ironwolf's week of gaming maddness




It is on the DVR.  Simple transfer to tape and we are set.

-Shay


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## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

The Rock is like the A-list Bruce Campbell.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Nice to see chaotic evil turn on itself.  "Kill him yourself!"


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

I think the lich only helped cause he was just plain bored.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

Man Lux is hot......you know if this was Eberron i'd almost say that was a dragonmark on her brow...


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> I think the lich only helped cause he was just plain bored.



 Why else would a lich do anything?


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

"Don't kill him. But let ME threaten to kill him to lift the curse."


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Is my illegal download of the movie now legal because the movie has been shown on TV? I plan to buy the DVD would that make it legal? Or should I not even ask?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> "Don't kill him. But let ME threaten to kill him to lift the curse."



 Players ate their best 

Plus I am partial to he one armed elf wizard myself


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> Is my illegal download of the movie now legal because the movie has been shown on TV? I plan to buy the DVD would that make it legal? Or should I not even ask?



 Legal or no, you have cheated these fimmakers of their just dues... how else will they make a third film?


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## d20Dwarf (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I think all the DnD ads have been different.




Which is amazing considering they spent $20 on each one!


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> Man Lux is hot......you know if this was Eberron i'd almost say that was a dragonmark on her brow...



The Elf wasn't too shabby either but Lux now thats a woman.


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> The Elf wasn't too shabby either but Lux now thats a woman.



 I like all the new D&D ladies


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Evil Ujio said:
			
		

> Legal or no, you have cheated these fimmakers of their just dues... how else will they make a third film?



I did say I was going to buy the DVD. The filmmakers will make their money off of me.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

BrooklynKnight said:
			
		

> I think the lich only helped cause he was just plain bored.




Wouldn't you be after all that time?  What did the lich turn into?  Four arms, wings ... like a winged devourer, but not.

Overall, not bad.  Not great, but par for SciFi channel, and certainly better than the original.  Worth watching just to capture the DnDisms.

I'd give it about a 6 of 10, overall.


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> The Elf wasn't too shabby either but Lux now thats a woman.



aye!


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Oh No not Kull. Why oh Why?


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> I did say I was going to buy the DVD. The filmmakers will make their money off of me.



 it was all in jest


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## BrooklynKnight (Oct 9, 2005)

LOL, must be Fantasy Night on Sci-Fi!

From D&D2 to Kull the Conqurer! Campy Movie Night!

Nothing like rock music playing over Kevin Sorbo kicking ass with an axe. Ok, I gotta go back to work, later everyone.......


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## Evil Ujio (Oct 9, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> Oh No not Kull. Why oh Why?



With Heavy Metal music and Kevin Sorbo this should be the D&D movie.


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## Templetroll (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> LOL!  And the familiar is toast!  Typical mage, only pulls the familiar out in a last pinch ...
> 
> Nice teleport mishap, too.




The familiar seemed more like a figurine of wondrous power instead of a living creature.


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## Pseudonym (Oct 9, 2005)

Nice that they returned to the temple to find the wizard and rogue healed and happy, but doing light gardening.

Just like the DM to have the priests heal the PCs, but set them to an annoying side plot in exchange.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Templetroll said:
			
		

> The familiar seemed more like a figurine of wondrous power instead of a living creature.




I wondered about the "old friend" bit the elf said ... hence my interpretation of familiar.  But she did pull it out like it was a Qualls feather token or figurine.


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## Pseudonym (Oct 9, 2005)

Templetroll said:
			
		

> The familiar seemed more like a figurine of wondrous power instead of a living creature.




Come to think of it, when it got zapped it turned into some sort of clay bit.  a _Quaal's Feather Token_ perhaps?


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Evil Ujio said:
			
		

> With Heavy Metal music and Kevin Sorbo this should be the D&D movie.



But the D&D movie had better acting. Both of them did.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

I was hoping they would have more closing stuff at the end with the party. Just shots of them was too little, IMO.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> I was hoping they would have more closing stuff at the end with the party. Just shots of them was too little, IMO.




They regenerated the wizard's arm; you'd think they'd raise their own cleric.  Or perhaps that violates the precepts of Obad-Hai.


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 9, 2005)

Hmm.

Cheesy, but that was to be expected. But at least it was _fun_ cheesy, not crappy cheesy.

Twenty-seven billion times better than the first one.

I'll probably get it on DVD. I'm looking forward to seeing the cut scenes (assuming they have them on the DVD), such as the one where Berek obtains the vorpal sword that suddenly appears while they're in the shrine.


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## KenM (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> They regenerated the wizard's arm; you'd think they'd raise their own cleric.  Or perhaps that violates the precepts of Obad-Hai.




  Do you need the body for a raise dead? The party was standing at a grave eairler, and seeing how most likely the body was inside the white dragon........


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Do you need the body for a raise dead? The party was standing at a grave eairler, and seeing how most likely the body was inside the white dragon........



You didn't see the body parts when the Dragon died? There was at least one leg visiable on the ground.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> Do you need the body for a raise dead? The party was standing at a grave eairler, and seeing how most likely the body was inside the white dragon........




They had pieces.  A leg, at least.  Well, perhaps a ressurrection ...


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## Altalazar (Oct 9, 2005)

Strong on the rules.  Weak on the acting and story, though there was potential, at least, in the plot.  It could have been executed better.  Oh well.  It's too bad there isn't a good script, good funding, and a good director.  But I consider it a step up from the first one overall.  At least it was recognizable rules-wise.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

Altalazar said:
			
		

> Strong on the rules.  Weak on the acting and story, though there was potential, at least, in the plot.  It could have been executed better.  Oh well.  It's too bad there isn't a good script, good funding, and a good director.  But I consider it a step up from the first one overall.  At least it was recognizable rules-wise.




Hey, we've gotten good acting, directing, story, and special effects, with bad rules ... Lord of the Rings!  

But this was definitely recognizable as D&D, which is almost more than I can say for the first movie!


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## Knightfall (Oct 9, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> I'll probably get it on DVD. I'm looking forward to seeing the cut scenes (assuming they have them on the DVD), such as the one where Berek obtains the vorpal sword that suddenly appears while they're in the shrine.




Not only cut scenes, but the fact that the DVD has an extra 15 minutes of footage that SciFi cut from the movie from the premiere. It's too bad I can't get SciFi Channel here in Canada.

I'll have to wait a month for the DVD. :\ 

KF72


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## Aeson (Oct 9, 2005)

Editted so I don't get flamed.


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## Mouseferatu (Oct 9, 2005)

Knightfall1972 said:
			
		

> Not only cut scenes, but the fact that the DVD has an extra 15 minutes of footage that SciFi cut from the movie from the premiere.




Really? Bastards.


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## DaveMage (Oct 9, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> Which is amazing considering they spent $20 on each one!




Which is about what they spent on each scene of the movie.


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## No Name (Oct 9, 2005)

Not a bad movie, but the book was better.


(loved that commercial   )


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## Rel (Oct 9, 2005)

Without question it was FAR better than the first D&D movie.  The acting was...adequate to convey the story and that's probably the best that could be said for it.  But it did accomplish the primary thing that it needed to, which was to interject plenty of D&Disms into what we knew would be a B rate movie.

I was pleased to see the D&D ads during the movie but good God there were a lot of commercials!  I started paying attention to when they started and ended and I'm fairly certain that the pattern was approximately 10 minutes of movie and 5 minutes of commercials.  It really hurt the flow of the film.  I recorded it on the DVR so I'll have to see how it plays when I skip them upon watching it with my D&D group some time.

My best laugh of the night was reflecting on the D&D commercial with the 3 "Rules" and how they related to the movie:

1 - Never split the party!  (They split the party)
2 - Keep the Cleric alive!  (They let the Cleric get killed)
3 - Always check for traps!  (They did better than average on this but the barbarian almost violated it)

Anyway, it didn't completely suck so that's a big step in the right direction.  Regardless, I still think I'll wind up liking The Gamers II better when I get a chance to see it.


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## KingOfChaos (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> LOL!  And the familiar is toast!  Typical mage, only pulls the familiar out in a last pinch ...
> 
> Nice teleport mishap, too.




That wasn't a familiar, it was a figurine of wondrous power.  Hence the reason it turned back to porceline when it was destroyed.


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## mr_outsidevoice (Oct 9, 2005)

*scatterings of thought.*

Better than the First.

I like the electric path trap and solution.

The Elf wizard was nibble-ishious, Lux was vera nice.

The Ads were fun. No Magic:The Gathering "Send in Ted, from accounting", but still good enough.

I have learned that you can chop down trees with a warhammer, if you pray before doing so.

Damadar is certainly no Xycon.

And how can us old school gamers not love the reference to 1st ed modules.  We just needed a reference to the Styeading of the Hill Giant Chief to make my day complete.


----------



## Dark Jezter (Oct 9, 2005)

Saw it, and thought it was definately better than the original.

The barbarian chick, Lux, was quite hot, as was the main character's wife.  The elf girl was okay, but not as good looking as the humans.

I did like the references to classic D&D modules as well as recognizing certain spells and magic items.

Sadly, there were no gelatinous cubes in this D&D movie either.  Hopefully one will show up in Dungeons & Dragons 3.


----------



## Truth Seeker (Oct 9, 2005)

So, what I missed?


----------



## KingOfChaos (Oct 9, 2005)

Truth Seeker said:
			
		

> So, what I missed?




A good movie, actually.


----------



## AelyaShade (Oct 9, 2005)

KenM said:
			
		

> No exercise ads here. Is the elf magic user a wizard or socerer? I don't see Her with a spell book.




She was a wizard. She specifically mentions only having prepared 2 teleport spells for the adventure.


----------



## AelyaShade (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> LOL!  And the familiar is toast!  Typical mage, only pulls the familiar out in a last pinch ...
> 
> Nice teleport mishap, too.





At first, that was reaction to the bird. As soon as she produced it, I said that the elf wizard was about to lose an experience level as I foresaw roasted dove. However, hubby reasoned that the dove was probably just a summoned animal from an astral plane, similar to Drzzt's beloved Gwenhyvar, to include the figurine. So not a true textbook familiar and no experience loss incurred. Still, it was rather funny.


----------



## GreenLantern (Oct 9, 2005)

The movie was definitely better than the first -- and pretty good as far as Sci-Fi movies go, better than Earthsea for example.  

I missed part of the movie, so I had a question: Where did the main character get his sword, and from a rules perspective, what kind of sword was it?


----------



## RedShirtNo5 (Oct 9, 2005)

My reaction was that D&D2 was about as good as an average episode of Xena.  That's about what I had expected.  Certainly it was better than D&D1, but I can't rate it as "good", just "average".  Not sure whether it was the acting or the dialog, but my main issue was that I never felt any connection to any of the characters.  Except maybe Nim.  The plot was actually pretty good (at least nothing immediately springing out as stupid), and it was fun to have the references and to have it track the rules pretty closely.  And horay, a real dungeon with a history, hidden entrance, and traps!  But the dialog and acting, although not actively bad, were pretty wooden.

Favorite touches 
-When the elf cast detect magic, there's a brief shot of everyone in the party with one or two things that glow
-Ring of the ram!
-"You still have a pulse.  But if you turn undead, I'll disintergrate you." 

-RedShirt


----------



## Mouseferatu (Oct 9, 2005)

GreenLantern said:
			
		

> The movie was definitely better than the first -- and pretty good as far as Sci-Fi movies go, better than Earthsea for example.




That's probably because it's not really a Sci-Fi movie. They bought the rights to show it first after the fact; they had nothing whatsoever to do with making it. It was intended as a straight-to-DVD movie here in the States, and is actually getting theatrical release in some other countries.



> I missed part of the movie, so I had a question: Where did the main character get his sword, and from a rules perspective, what kind of sword was it?




You didn't miss it. It was cut. There was a scene filmed where he gets the sword, but it didn't make the final print. And I believe it's a vorpal blade, if I'm remembering the GenCon seminar correctly.


----------



## SidusLupus (Oct 9, 2005)

Does anyone know where they have the stats for the characters and creatures? I'm curious on the class break down of the lord. Fighter? or Swashbuckler? or something strange. They seemed to be a party of decent level unlike the first movie. The stuff seemed a bit more plausible.. as far as DnD goes. 

I was surprized at the amount of violence in it compared to the first move. They killed off characters left and right. The begining was kind of forced and cheesy with the king and all. However, the movie was fairly entertaining. It wasn't anything huge but still fun to watch.


----------



## Lord Wyrm (Oct 9, 2005)

I think the lord was a fighter... a stupid fighter who doesn't do his job of letting the dragon stomp him and not the casters, but a fighter.


----------



## trancejeremy (Oct 9, 2005)

They really only killed off one (besides the bird). The others were just maimed a bit.

It would be cool if the DVD came with stats and such for the characters, or sort of a mini-adventure based on it. Maybe as a PDF on it. But probably asking too much.


----------



## Truth Seeker (Oct 9, 2005)

KingOfChaos said:
			
		

> A good movie, actually.



Well, just watch it, for the late showing. Went in and out out sleep.

It was just there...


----------



## Pseudonym (Oct 9, 2005)

Okay, since this is a spoiler thread, I'll lay this out here.

At the time I didn't notice or care, but this morining looking back it hit me as odd.

They go into the goblin shaman's hut, which was a wood and thatch affair up on stilts.  Searching around, the rogue finds a trap door in the floor, which drops down into a secret space deep enough to hold a small chest.  Remember the hut is on stilts.  How thick was that floor again?

They set off a trap, wherein several blades (apparently 3 or 4 feet long from the camera angle) shoot up out of the floor in the area around the secret compartment.  The floor of the hut which is up on stilts.

Wouldn't all of this be obvious from ground level?  Where the hell were those blade hiding?

That aside, the party acted as a party would: the mage casts _Detect Magic_ while the rogue and the rest toss the place looking for loot.  I missed what the wizard said when she found the ring, but was that where she found the Ring of the Ram?


----------



## DaveMage (Oct 9, 2005)

mr_outsidevoice said:
			
		

> And how can us old school gamers not love the reference to 1st ed modules.  We just needed a reference to the Styeading of the Hill Giant Chief to make my day complete.




That's D&D 4.    

D&D 3 being the Temple of Elemental Evil, of course.


----------



## tecnowraith (Oct 9, 2005)

Pseudonym said:
			
		

> Okay, since this is a spoiler thread, I'll lay this out here.
> 
> At the time I didn't notice or care, but this morining looking back it hit me as odd.
> 
> ...





The bed itself was risen, like a platform bed.


----------



## tecnowraith (Oct 9, 2005)

Hey, just be glad that Damodar did not use Beholder guard-dogs this time around.   Harpies and maybe imps was used.

Was not sure on the lich design though.
The Lizardfolk shaman was interesting plus the regeneration used on his arm.


----------



## Sketchpad (Oct 9, 2005)

Saw it ... liked it   In all honesty, I thought it was much better than the first and has potential for a sequel.  I did let out a cry when I saw Solomon's name in the openning credits, but I think he made a better movie this time.  In all honesty, I think I'd like to see a series or series of movies based around the iconic characters (Redgar, Lidda, etc) and have them hit the classic modules (Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants, etc).  Over all  though, I liked it and will probably snag it on DVD


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## HeapThaumaturgist (Oct 9, 2005)

After watching the movie, here's my biggest complaint:

Is this Courtney Solomon's crappy homebrew city?

Originally it was entirely his crappy homebrew, but they obviously shifted Ishmir to Greyhawk.  Maybe Ishmir is in greyhawk already, and -I- just didn't know that, but I can't recall it.

At any rate, in Ishmir, obviously D&D magic doesn't function like D&D magic.  So we've still got a fundamental disconnect going on between "what happens in D&D" and "what happens in Courtneyland".  

"Divine" magic is this rare and mysterious thing ... but we've got a cleric.  Who doesn't seem to do any Divine healing, and conveniently gets toasted after casting ... wall of fire? (Obad-Hai, Fire domain).  Which was established before that as an arcane spell.  So when the party gets beat to heck we teleport them all to a temple, but follow one character out and ... oh, look, no divine healing on-screen again.  Did everybody get stitches or did they get a round of Cure Serious Wounds?

The only time we see curative magic on screen is on the badguy's side, by some dude in a black robe.

It was just a jarring series of "very much not D&D", that they seemed to go out of their way to avoid divine magic.  That was one of the reasons the 1st movie sucked so bad, beyond essential points of film-making, was that it wasn't even a "D&D Movie".  Nothing worked like the game ... no identifiable monsters, no clerics, weird elves, unintelligent dragons, beholders as minor watch-creatures who HEAR, etc.

This time was better, but I'd very much like to see "Ishmir" left behind for any future films and everything just work in good ole stock Greyhawk.  Maybe a cleric of Pelor.  A few cure spells.  Just one ... somebody gets stabbed, Bob of Pelor says:  "Oh my, this looks serious ..." concentrates and the wound heals and we can all say:  "That's why you don't let the cleric get eaten by a dragon in the first combat of the adventure."  As opposed to setting up the cleric as Conan With A Maul.

--fje


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## tecnowraith (Oct 9, 2005)

so they used Darkmantles in the dungeon before the mirror tap then?


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## HalWhitewyrm (Oct 9, 2005)

I didn't see much of the first one (it hurt too much) but actually sat down to watch the movie last night.

It didn't suck as much as I thought it would, so it ended up being ok. The acting was horrible, but not painful (well, some Damodar parts were). Like everyone else, what I liked most was the D&D-isms that populated the movie. If I want a more general type of fantasy, I'll watch LotR, so I appreciated them making this a D&D movie.

The story was ok, on par with an average adventure (or is it that all our really cool adventures would look this mediocre if put to film?). My favorite thing to do during the movie (other than going all MST3K on it) was playing the part of the DM, citing rules as they appeared on screen (spells, magic items, monsters, PCs, the elf being the one who finds the secret door, etc - and I'll probably check it out again to see if I can spot feats and such being used as well) and calling out the house rules from time to time. And much like everyone else, I loved the references to the old mods. It only needed a bard, IMO.  

Now, I was under the impression that WotC had nothing to do with this movie. If so, how did they get away with using so much of the D&D IP in the movie (all the old module names, the look of the various monsters, Obad-Hai, etc.)? Or am I just misinformed here?

I give it a 5.5 overall, and will probably see the DVD just to check out the extra scenes.


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## Olgar Shiverstone (Oct 9, 2005)

(OOTS reference coming up...)

No WOTC IP needed.  Everything in the movie was OGL.


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## Richards (Oct 9, 2005)

A few unrelated conments about the characters:

Nim the Rogue is definitely the Frohicke (from "The X-Files" and "The Lone Gunmen") of the party.

Dorian the Cleric would have looked a whole lot better without those green racing stripes on his balding head.

Berrick's wife (forgot her name) looks like she could have been Jessica Alba's slightly-less-attractive sister.

Slapping a tattoo on Lux's forehead wasn't particularly a bad idea.  Making the tattoo look like an "M" above an "H" kind of was.  (I was distracted trying to figure out what that might stand for.)

Oberon bore an uncanny resemblence to Mr. Pith from "Seinfeld" (who once insisted that Elaine refrain from going on a weekend outing with her friends because he wanted her to buy him new socks).  I know it wasn't him, but they look a lot alike.

I liked how when the bandits attacked the party in the forest, Berrick the fighter sends the two women out to deal with them, while he sticks around and watches Nim figure out the secret entrance to the dungeon.  Very chivalrous, Berrick!

Overall, it was a much better movie than I expected, and I enjoyed playing "spot the actual D&D reference" while watching it.

Johnathan


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## Borlon (Oct 9, 2005)

I thought Lux was eaten by that harpy?  How is it she appears later on to threaten the BBEG?  Or am I totally confused?


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## Tolen Mar (Oct 9, 2005)

Presumably, she got mad at it and ripped its wings off off-screen.

My thought mirror most everyone's here:  Better than the first, and pretty typical for what sci-fi shows these days.

The acting was better (but still dull), the plot was better (some way anyway), the directing was better.  I just think maybe a higher budget would have helped a lot.

I might rent the dvd to see the cut scenes, but I still dont think I want to own it.

I'm still waiting for them to give up on the idea of a 'Dungeons and Dragons' movie.  No studio will take it really seriously.  Drop the DnD from the name, and sneak in 'Greyhawk', or 'Ghost Tower of Inverness', the DnD crowd will know where it came from, while the DnD stigma won't be terribly obvious for the stuffed shirts who keep shorting it.


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## DungeonmasterCal (Oct 9, 2005)

Did anyone go to the dndnow.com site advertised at the bottom of the D&D ads? Go! You get a 1,000 exp for doin' so.  Sez so right on the website!............still not enough to merit the loss of 2.5 hours of my Saturday night....


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## DMH (Oct 9, 2005)

Borlon said:
			
		

> I thought Lux was eaten by that harpy?  How is it she appears later on to threaten the BBEG?  Or am I totally confused?




Wasn't there a quick shot of something using dimension door to reach her? It almost looked like lammasu.


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## Bloodstone Press (Oct 9, 2005)

I thought it was a whole lot better than the first one, and a little better than I expected. 

Liked: 
Damodor getting pumped in the backside with a magic potion or something
Discovering the sleeping dragon
When Nim started laughing when the mage's figurine was destroyed
When the cleric got killed
Cutting the mage's arm off so she could teleport
The ring of the Ram
The Gem of True Seeing
The darkmantals 
The Dragons


Disliked:
Poor dialogue over all, and sounded a little too much like an explanation of the PHB
Too short/too many characters They never really developed the mage and only hinted at character development of some of the other characters. They should have added more time, or cut the # of characters a bit to get better character development. 
The lich costume 
The writing on the stature was in large Arial font! 
The bandits marching in lockstep. 
Cheap sets and costumes

 Did you notice the scene where the mage cast two spells in the same round? I believe she cast wall of fire and dispel magic, one of them as a Quickened Spell


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## demiurge1138 (Oct 9, 2005)

Well, I liked it. Not a classic, or even very good from any accurate point of view, but fun. And that's what mattered. Although I was not impressed by Damodar's lack of doing anything. He was more villainous when he still had blue lips, sadly enough.

Demiurge out.


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## nato (Oct 9, 2005)

It was not perfect, and I'm not saying it was.

But overall I thought it was very good!  A much much better representation / ad for D&D than the first movie.  A good example of a D&D adventure.

This is the one that should have had the money and gone to the theatres.


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## KingOfChaos (Oct 9, 2005)

I hear a lot of bitching about the words on the statue being in english.  Um, guys...what the hell do you think 'common' is?  It's the representation of english in the D&D worlds   So the statue's inscription was written in common, not 'english'.


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## Wycen (Oct 9, 2005)

Infinitely better than the first movie.

We never see the elf wizardess using a spell book.  Or do we?  In the wide screen scene of the party gathering the horses, just before the close up of the rogue and barbarian pointing knives at each other, I could have sworn I saw the elf sitting in her saddle with an open book in one hand.

And what did Nim pluck from the skull's eye socket?  I'm thinking that is where he got the Gem of Seeing.


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## Wormwood (Oct 9, 2005)

Random thoughts from someone who has seen this film too many times:

I assume that Melora was pointing out that no member of the Council of Mages was able to use Divine Magic. She's at least a Wiz13 or Sor14, but apparently the DM won't let her take a single level of Cleric or Adept.

As for Berek's supposed 'vorpal' sword, it's really a _keen adamantine _weapon.

Nim is all about the Quick Draw.

What kind of undead did Klexx the Malign summon? It was broad daylight, which means that they couldn't be spectres or wraiths. I counted over a dozen, and Dorian was able to destroy four or so. What _were _they?

Staff of Ormaline: _permament image, lightning bolt, burning hands_ 

Why did Damodar have drow blood poured into a hole in his spine? How is that in any way helpful?

edit: of course they were harpies. I still prefer to think of them as being gargoyles, though.


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## Wormwood (Oct 9, 2005)

And whatever happened to the voiceovers of Krusk, Lidda and Jozan?


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## Knightfall (Oct 9, 2005)

HeapThaumaturgist said:
			
		

> After watching the movie, here's my biggest complaint:
> 
> Is this Courtney Solomon's crappy homebrew city?




I'm not sure where Solomon got the idea for Izmer/Ismir, but I definitely think it was his "creation". Whether or not it was part of his homebrewed campaign setting, I can't say, as I don't know? However, Izmer/Ismir has gone beyond the realm of his complete control. (BTW, the city's name is Sumdall, while the land is called Izmer/Ismir.)

I'm surprised to hear that Courtney Solomon is an Executive Producer for this movie. There has been absolutely no mention of him being involved with D&D 2. (I guess it's not surprising considering how everyone crucifies hims for the "style" of the first D&D movie and the performances given by the actors.) Silver Pictures did a really good job keeping his status "under wraps".

IMDb lists Steve Richards (D&D: The Movie, Animatrix) and Wolfgang Esenwein (of Studio Hamburg WorldWide Pictures) as Producers and Cindi Rice (of Ravenloft fame) and John Frank Rosenblum (The Gamers) as Consulting Producers. Alexandra Bouillon (Luminal, Man to Man) is listed as an Associate Producer.

Obviously, Solomon learned that he shouldn't direct or it was decided for him by the powers-that-be at Silver Pictures. 

KF72


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## Knightfall (Oct 9, 2005)

HeapThaumaturgist said:
			
		

> Originally it was entirely his crappy homebrew, but they obviously shifted Ishmir to Greyhawk.  Maybe Ishmir is in greyhawk already, and -I- just didn't know that, but I can't recall it.




Izmer/Ismir isn't set in Greyhawk. More likely, WotC allowed the movie makers to import a more "Greyhawk-like" theme into the movie's world. Sort of like how many of the classic Greyhawk names (i.e. spells, gods) are now considered part of the core rules of 3rd Edition Dungeons and Dragons.

Greyhawk is still a seperate entity, but a lot of its thematic components aren't. Thus, if a third D&D movie is based on The Temple of Elemental Evil, it will be set in the same, now more, "Greyhawk" influenced setting that is Izmer/Ismir.

Of course, WotC could try to force the fimmakers to set a ToEE movie completely in Greyhawk. Who knows!

KF72


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## Fast Learner (Oct 9, 2005)

We've recently discussed the role of executive producer in making a film, finding the money and knowing the right people. It's very possible that Solomon's only role as EP was having access to the rights to the pic, being willing to bow out of other positions in return for an EP credit, or something else that doesn't actually involve the film. While "executive producer" sounds like a powerful leadership position, it's not at all uncommon for one or two of the EPs on a film to be barely related to it at all.


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## Templetroll (Oct 9, 2005)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> Random thoughts from someone who has seen this film too many times:
> 
> I assume that Melora was pointing out that no member of the Council of Mages was able to use Divine Magic. She's at least a Wiz13 or Sor14, but apparently the DM won't let her take a single level of Cleric or Adept.
> 
> ...




Anything that was odd like the limit on clerical magic, the undead and the efficacy of drow blood is likely due to Solomon's homebrew.  Could you have resisted putting in some of the cool stuff you've done if you had the rights to the movie?  I don't know that I have that kind of artistic integrity and I _know _ I don't have that kind of self=control!

This movie was easily as good as Hawk, the Slayer from way back when and the first D&D movie wasn't.   ToEE isn't my favorite dungeon crawl, but as mentioned if the right people work on it it could be fun.  I'm really hoping they do the Giants series; I've had fun playing in it and running it.  It would have great potential for fun and cool special effects.  I'd like to see the different types of giants in the Hall.


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## haakon1 (Oct 9, 2005)

trancejeremy said:
			
		

> Hmmm, also lots and lots of ads for exercise equipment...




In Seattle, the most prominent ads were for Valtrex, a herpes medicine, and for D&D itself.

Seattle gamers must be more fit than gamers in other cities.


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## haakon1 (Oct 9, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> So, is it worth watching?




Surprisingly, yes, it is worth watching.


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## haakon1 (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Nice to see chaotic evil turn on itself.  "Kill him yourself!"




I was thinking the dracolich would just eat Damodar when it was freed.  You knew something evil had to act evil, instead of all being nicey-nice.


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## haakon1 (Oct 9, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> They regenerated the wizard's arm; you'd think they'd raise their own cleric.  Or perhaps that violates the precepts of Obad-Hai.




I don't think they recovered the body, so no Raise Dead.


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## haakon1 (Oct 9, 2005)

nato said:
			
		

> It was not perfect, and I'm not saying it was.
> 
> But overall I thought it was very good!  A much much better representation / ad for D&D than the first movie.  A good example of a D&D adventure.
> 
> This is the one that should have had the money and gone to the theatres.




No kidding.  I'm very glad someone who cared and was not totally useless made the second movie.  The first movie, I think they cared, but they were just so utterly lame . . . 

What's the deal with Izmir?  Besides being a city in Turkey, is it in any D&D game?


----------



## The Human Target (Oct 9, 2005)

I thought it was awful, but in a kinda fun and endearing way.


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## Wycen (Oct 10, 2005)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> Random thoughts from someone who has seen this film too many times:
> 
> 
> What kind of undead did Klexx the Malign summon? It was broad daylight, which means that they couldn't be spectres or wraiths. I counted over a dozen, and Dorian was able to destroy four or so. What _were _they?




The lord guy specifically called them spectres.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 10, 2005)

Since I admitted, falling in and out sleep for the movie, and while probably catch it on Thursday. Curious I am, did the Elf female caster, use a lot of components for spelling casting?


----------



## VirgilCaine (Oct 10, 2005)

shaylon said:
			
		

> Good point.
> 
> I liked the 3 rules D&D commercial, although they didn't seem to do a good job of rule #2, don't kill the cleric.
> 
> ...




I liked all three commercials--"hold off the movie", 3 rules, and "the book is better than the movie". 

As for accuracy...

"They (clerics of Obad-Hai) are the best healers in the land." Riiiight.

What kind of class is Berek? What's with his sword?

Where are the portable holes or bags of holding if these "adventurers" don't even have backpacks?

Two teleport spells? It's called Scribe Scroll, bitch. It's free. Use it.


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## AdmundfortGeographer (Oct 10, 2005)

I'm just reposting my previous tally of D&D-isms found in the movie from an older thread... with some new ones caught in this viewing.

*"Temple of Obad-Hai"* (The cleric of the "party" is from the temple)
*"Juiblex*" (named as being once worshipped by a dead guy)
_new remark_: *"Yeenoghu"* named in the intro credits.
*"Colossal Black Dragon"*, said by main character after he found evidence it slept beneath a mountain near the kingdom.
*"The Night Dragon"*, also a reference to the damn big black dragon.
_new remark_: *Falazure*, the D&D's dragon pantheon god of Decay, Undeath, and Exhaustion. He's not a dracolich, as some are intent on claiming. Falazure (according to the Draconomicon if you'd care to read for yourself), "_(s)ome claim he has a decaying skeletal form, but others believe that he looks like a decrepit black dragon whose flesh is pulled tight over his bones._" Further, the Draconomicon claims "_Falazure created (or at least has a hand in the creation of) the first undead dragons, such as dracoliches, vampiric dragons, and ghostly dragons... ._"
*"Drow"*, a corpse of one was hung upside down in an abbatoir, being drained of blood to be used as a component in Damodar's ointment that was treating his undeath condition.
*"Goblins of Kurtul"*, never see one, but the village of this tribe of goblins is explored by the "party". (_New speculation... Kurtul/Kurtulmak?)_
*"Lich"*, (pronounced to sound like "itch") there is a lich who allies with Damodar. 
*"Spectre"*, brought forward by the Lich to take down the party who invaded the lich's necropolis inadvertantly.
*"Purple Worm"*, the acid of one of these guys was used by the rogue to melt a lock on a chest found in the goblin shaman's hut. The flask of this was thrown at the...
*White Dragon* (?) Not named as such, but a dragon with a seemingly mottled white and dark scaly hide ambushed the party in the goblin's abandoned village and it was using a breath weapon that froze everything.
*Air Elemental* (?) Not names as such, but a just-larger-than man-sized whirling tornadic spiral of wind led a group of mages to a secret door.
*"Darkmantle"*, bunches of these dropped onto the "party" exploring the tomb of the dead guy who worshipped Juiblex.
*Lizardmen* (?), not named as such, but the credits did list "Lizard Shaman", but some lizard headed, robed spellcasters healed Damodar by regenerating his arm.
*Gargoyles* (?), I may be mistaken, but creatures that looked like gargoyles chased down the escaping heroes. I think these are the winged sillouetted things in the upper left corner of the movie poster folks have seen. (_I originally thought these gargoyles, but others have made convincing cases they were harpies._)
_new remark_: *Halflings?/Gnomes?* Very small, almost thigh height little people on the road as the "Party" travels out of town can be seen.

Some of the spells cast...
*Gust of Wind*, a spell was cast that blew a cloud of poison gas away into nothing
*"Vision"*
*"Discern Location"*
*"Teleport"*, elven wizard mentioned she prepared two, one there and one back. When asked why not just teleport there right away instead of walking all the way there, she mentioned without having seen where to go she could misteleport by miles.
*Summon Monster* (?), a spell was cast to summon the magmin, who proceeded to scamper around torching scrolls, books, and all sorts of wooden things in the library.
*"Detect Magic"*
*Hold Person* (?), dunno what it was, but the lich cast a spell that wrapped one of the "party" members in a greenish-yellowish aura, paralyzed.
*Dispel Magic* (?), the elf wizard cast a spell that made the invisible tomb entrance visible.

Some magic items used...
*Wand or staff with "Lightning Bolt"*, elf wizard cast repeated _lightning bolts_, apparantly right from a stick held in her hands.
*Ring of the Ram*, (found with the _detect magic_ spell in the goblin shaman's hut) the translucent ram's head appearing at the ring and shooting out to smack a target.
*Gem of "True Seeing"*, used by the rogue to spot magically concealed things, such as the entrance to the tomb of the Juiblex worshipping dead guy. Even a reference to it not being able to reveal "mundanely concealed" things.
_new remark_: *Robe of Eyes*? Pure speculation, but I remember someone mentioning that with the eyes all over Oberon's robe it could certainly be.
_new remark_: *Quall's Feather Token*, many have made convincing arguments that the dove  that gets zapped by the trap is either this, or a Figurine of Wondrous Power.

References to D&D history
*"Ghost Tower of Inverness"*, main character said he once explored it.
*"Barrier Peaks"*, asked what was it like by barbarian woman to the rogue.
*"Shrine of the Kuo Toa"*, referred to by rogue when trying to come up with solutions to a puzzle-lock to gain entrance to tomb.

D&D miscellanea...
Example of "*elven senses*", as elven wizard noticed a hollow spot behind a wall.
*"Teleport" mishap*, the elven wizard cast a _teleport_ spell into Damodar's lair, having only seen the destination through a scrying, got herself partly stuck in a wall. You get a glimpse of main character about to lop her arm off (because it is now part of the wall) as the Party then teleports straight back to the temple of Obad Hai for healing.
*Bluff* skill (?), the rogue insists no one look while he is going to use his ancient rogue guild secrets to operate a complex device, and then promptly just yanks a switch when no one looks.
*Barbarian rage*, its barely controllable fury, and the exhaustion when rage ends.
Clerical *undead turning*, as cleric of Obad Hai destroys bunches of spectres (but not all) with holy symbol held aloft.
*Half-orc*, in the beginning credits as the camera scans over sheets of parchments. the words "half-orc" are written next to a sketching of a ... half-orc. Not certain if the assistant to Damodar is a half-orc, it's never said, but it looks like it might be. (_New remark: Plus the six stats next to the artwork!_)
_new remark_: *Wizard as mobile artillery role*. The elven wizard certainly made easy work of the attacking bandits with _lightning bolt_ after _lightning bolt_, as mentioned above.
_new remark_: *variety of traps*. Puzzle traps especially.
_new remark_: info dump about *divine magic and arcane magic differences*.

I might have missed a few things... but all in all, very full of D&D!

Anyone else have some found D&D-isms?


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

Olgar Shiverstone said:
			
		

> Ooh .. they stormed the Ghost tower of Inverness!  Why couldn't they tell that story?
> 
> Fighter, cleric, elf wizard, halfling rogue ... an almost quintessential party.  Interesting choice of the female barbarian as #5.  Or is Lord Beric supposed to be a paladin?




I don't think he really was. But probably wasn't too far off.



> Edit: You'd thing WOTC would be advertising D&D during this.




They did.



> Edit2: And so there was a D&D commercial ... but it sucked!




We thought those were funny as heck! Especially the "rules" one: 

Rule1: Don't split the party! (broken!)
Rule2: Keep the cleric alive! (broken!)
I don't recall rule 3.


----------



## LawfulGoodThief (Oct 10, 2005)

Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> Anyone else have some found D&D-isms?




Julibex is a demon lord of oozes and slimes dating back to 1st edition AD&D.
Yeenoghu is another demon lord worshipped by gnolls.

Was the Black Dragon named in the movie? I thought I heard Tharizdun, the name of a Greyhawk imprisoned evil deity.


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

d20Dwarf said:
			
		

> You only need one hand to cast in 3e.
> 
> Didn't this experienced adventuring group bring *any* cure potions with them?  :\




They counted solely on the cleric surviving until the end.... Which was dumb. Especially when they forgot Rule 2.

There wasn't any curing magic used. But by the time they really needed it, it was too late.


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

Aeson said:
			
		

> I did say I was going to buy the DVD. The filmmakers will make their money off of me.




I think I will too. Even though I didn't buy the first one. May buy it so it can make a set. But might get it used from Ed McKay's.


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

GreenLantern said:
			
		

> I missed part of the movie, so I had a question: Where did the main character get his sword, and from a rules perspective, what kind of sword was it?




As our group put it? He leveled up!   That's the only explanation we had for him suddenly with a new blade.


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

Sketchpad said:
			
		

> Saw it ... liked it   In all honesty, I thought it was much better than the first and has potential for a sequel.  I did let out a cry when I saw Solomon's name in the openning credits, but I think he made a better movie this time.  In all honesty, I think I'd like to see a series or series of movies based around the iconic characters (Redgar, Lidda, etc) and have them hit the classic modules (Temple of Elemental Evil, Against the Giants, etc).  Over all  though, I liked it and will probably snag it on DVD




I'd love to see the iconics in action in a movie. And not the Scourge of Worlds either. A real live-action movie like this one. There were threads once in awhile on the WOTC boards about who'd play each of the iconics...


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 10, 2005)

*D&D2: Wrath of the Reviewer*

What really bugged me about this movie was its blatant use of so-called "D&Disms" that were horribly inaccurate; for example:

1. The hero's wife mentions that no one in the kingdom is skilled with divine magic, but the main town has a temple with practicing clerics of Obad-Hai. Furthermore, one of the party members (Dorian) is a skilled priest.

2. The party runs from a lich, which is understandable, but they also retreat from an onslaught of darkmantles? Please ....

3. Jubliex is a magical engineer who makes scrying pools? He has no item creation feats, nor does he have arms to build with.

4. Damodar [an undead Fighter who has been around for over 100 years] absolutely sucks in combat.

5. Black dracoliches do not breathe fire.

Oh well, even though this movie was thoroughly putrid, I did have a lot of fun noting how bad it was. Maybe it wasn't a total loss.

-Samir


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

DungeonmasterCal said:
			
		

> Did anyone go to the dndnow.com site advertised at the bottom of the D&D ads? Go! You get a 1,000 exp for doin' so.  Sez so right on the website!............still not enough to merit the loss of 2.5 hours of my Saturday night....




Won't help in any of my campaigns....


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 10, 2005)

*D&D2: Wrath of the Reviewer (x2)*

A few more things:

1. The film's sound quality was extremely bad; I felt like I was watching a dubbed martial arts film.

2. The special effects were horrid; the kraken at the start of the movie was a cardboard rendition of the illustration in the _DMG_.

3. The two-dimensional artwork at the beginning of the film made me feel like I was watching a poorly done version of _Mr. Toad's Wild Ride_ for D&D.

4. The lich costume for Kex the Malevolent looks EXACTLY like the Gebbeth in SciFi's _Legend of Earthsea_.

-Samir


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## xnosipjpqmhd (Oct 10, 2005)

Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> References to D&D history...
> *"Barrier Peaks"*, asked what was it like by barbarian woman to the rogue.



Yeah, the barbarian's brother was driven mad by "what he saw in the Barrier Peaks" (a reference to S3).



			
				Eric Anondson said:
			
		

> *"Shrine of the Kuo Toa"*, referred to by rogue when trying to come up with solutions to a puzzle-lock to gain entrance to tomb. ... Anyone else have some found D&D-isms?



What I was curious about was whether the writers' did their homework. I used to own D2 back in the day, but don't anymore. Was there really a puzzle in the Shrine even remotely similar to that seen in the movie? Quick, someone with a copy of D2, look it up.... ;-)

ironregime


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

> 1. The hero's wife mentions that no one in the kingdom is skilled with divine magic, but the main town has a temple with practicing clerics of Obad-Hai. Furthermore, one of the party members (Dorian) is a skilled priest.




Goes to show she needs to get out more....

Or else she was more partial to clerics of Pelor, not Obad-Hai.


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## xnosipjpqmhd (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> 3. The two-dimensional artwork at the beginning of the film made me feel like I was watching a poorly done version of _Mr. Toad's Wild Ride_ for D&D.



I kind of liked the way they did the layered 2D artwork. It was kind of quaint. Much better than something flashy and over-the-top.

Your other observations are spot on, though.

ironregime


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 10, 2005)

*Lich, Kill the Costume Designer!*







"Kill him yourself!"​


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> "Kill him yourself!"​




That was A Lich???


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 10, 2005)

*Afraid So*

Yes; sad, isn't it?


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## nato (Oct 10, 2005)

I think some people enjoy being extremely critical; as though they are raising themselves up.  This can usually be spotted when they use hyperbole.  They don't just say it was bad, they pull out their thesaurus.

I really couldn't care less if they got some D&D-isms wrong.  It does not matter; their made-up stuff is about the same as "correct" D&D made-up stuff.  To a non-gamer, its totally meaningless.

Special effects are just a matter of budget.  Some of these looked very good to me, some not.  Nothing was way-out-there bad.

I think this one has a lot to offer as an introduction of the game.  It gets a lot right, especially the general picture of an adventure.  I really wish they had went with this instead of the first one.  Its got flaws certainly, but I'm not seeing whats gained by bashing.  Its not making you look knowledgeable or refined or something.


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## Wormwood (Oct 10, 2005)

nato said:
			
		

> Its got flaws certainly, but I'm not seeing whats gained by bashing.  Its not making you look knowledgeable or refined or something.




"Criticism comes easier than craftsmanship."
—Zeuxis (~400 BC)


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 10, 2005)

*D&D2 = "I Spit on Your Grave" for a New Generation*

I actually think this movie is so bad, it's GOOD.

The actors did not take themselves seriously; they completely "cheese-balled" it and had a great time (and it shows).

It was fun to watch; it was a lousy movie ... but it was also a hoot.   

-Samir


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## VirgilCaine (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> Yes; sad, isn't it?




Maybe he was a "new" lich. The party *DID* stumble into his area inadvertently and besides...he *could* have looked just like he did when he was a mortal--_Oil of Timelessness_ is in the DMG. Besides, the whole "spellcasting skeleton" bit is obvious to adventurers.


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 10, 2005)

*D&D3: Damodar Goes to Earthsea*



			
				VirgilCaine said:
			
		

> Maybe he was a "new" lich.



Or a recycled Gebbeth.


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## LawfulGoodThief (Oct 10, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> As our group put it? He leveled up!   That's the only explanation we had for him suddenly with a new blade.




According to the "Making of D&D 2" event at this pastGencon, they filmed a scene were he finds the vorpal sword in the crypt, but they removed it in editing.


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## Mystery Man (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> I actually think this movie is so bad, it's GOOD.
> 
> The actors did not take themselves seriously; they completely "cheese-balled" it and had a great time (and it shows).
> 
> ...





I'd have say it actually wasn't a lousy movie. It didn't suck! Even though I saw Courtney Solomon's name on the credits.

Bruce Payne has found his niche as a recurring DnD villain I think.


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## HeapThaumaturgist (Oct 10, 2005)

Seeing a guy from "The Gamers" in there explains why I was expecting/hoping the Purple Ninja to come running out of the woods at any moment.

And the camera work needed, uh, work ... the establishing shots of the city show a city, the live-action shots show "That Castle Every Low Budget Fantasy Film Rents".

On the whole, though, I liked it.  I might even buy it.  I wasn't expecting too much, but it's sort of a fun movie, y'know?  The lich ... okay, that was kind of sad, really, but it was an important enough character that they needed an actor and I'm sure since Sci-Fi was helping maybe they loaned out that Gebbeth costume.    I didn't honestly mind all that much.

What got ME was that his "necropolis" looked more like a random clearing in the woods.  I see why he was helping out Damodar ... at least HE could afford his own crib.  Keflex the Inflammable was homeless.  "Yea, uh, my necropolis is currently being renovated ... this is my SUMMER NECROPOLIS ..."  

Maybe they'll make another one.

--fje


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## VirgilCaine (Oct 10, 2005)

HeapThaumaturgist said:
			
		

> What got ME was that his "necropolis" looked more like a random clearing in the woods.  I see why he was helping out Damodar ... at least HE could afford his own crib.  Keflex the Inflammable was homeless.  "Yea, uh, my necropolis is currently being renovated ... this is my SUMMER NECROPOLIS ..."




Doesn't everyone love a brisk walk with their incorporeal minions in the summertime sun filtering through the forest canopy?

But gee, couldn't you tell, it was a _random_ encounter?


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## Alzrius (Oct 10, 2005)

Wycen said:
			
		

> The lord guy specifically called them spectres.




Yeah, but how many ranks in Knowledge (undead) would a fighter have? They could have been ghosts just as easily. What's harder to answer is what spell Klex summoned them with...none of the _summon undead_ spells summon incorporeal undead.



			
				Wormwood said:
			
		

> As for Berek's supposed 'vorpal' sword, it's really a keen adamantine weapon.




Well, it's definately adamantine. As for being keen or vorpal...it could be either. Neither property specifically mentions severing limbs (vorpal just says heads).



			
				Virgil Caine said:
			
		

> Two teleport spells? It's called Scribe Scroll, bitch. It's free. Use it.




Best. Line. EVAR!


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## VirgilCaine (Oct 10, 2005)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Best. Line. EVAR!




Wow. Thanks!


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## qstor (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> I actually think this movie is so bad, it's GOOD.
> 
> The actors did not take themselves seriously; they completely "cheese-balled" it and had a great time (and it shows).
> 
> ...





It think it was a lot better than the first. And not so bad for a SciFi Saturday movie better than those lame creature movies like "killer swamp fish" 

I think it had more D&Disms than the first by far and the story was a good flow. It would be interesting to see if they can do another movie.

Mike


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## Drkfathr1 (Oct 10, 2005)

LawfulGoodThief said:
			
		

> Was the Black Dragon named in the movie? I thought I heard Tharizdun, the name of a Greyhawk imprisoned evil deity.




Yep, several times. 

Falazure.


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## Henry (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> Jubliex is a magical engineer who makes scrying pools? He has no item creation feats, nor does he have arms to build with.




This one you can take off your list; the wizard who made the pool was Malax (or something similar) and as a human who worshipped Juiblex, he had two arms to build with quite well.  ( "Berek" called him 'Jubilex' which I got a kick out of ) 

Can't fault most of your other critiques, though. The special effects were pretty poor to me. I'd rather had this movie's plot, with the special effects of the first movie, but you can't win 'em all.

Oh, well, back to telling everyone that the Rings Trilogy was the real D&D movie...


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## Chaldfont (Oct 10, 2005)

This movie needed less plot and more action. But as my gaming buddy said as we watched it, "action is expensive". We kept saying "boxed text! Get on with it!".

I really think they should have ditched the whole "save the world from evil" business and made a movie like most adventures: A group of cynical treasure-hunters mount an expedition to kill monsters, survive traps, and get phat loot.

Best part of the movie: When the cleric gets killed by the dragon. Cleric's dead. We're screwed.


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## GoodKingJayIII (Oct 10, 2005)

Cleric went down like a ton of bricks; they totally violated rule number 2.  Also, I liked the simple DnD commercials, though if you're watching the movie you probably already play.  Isn't that like preaching to the choir?


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## dogoftheunderworld (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> What really bugged me about this movie was its blatant use of so-called "D&Disms" that were horribly inaccurate; for example:
> 
> 1. The hero's wife mentions that no one in the kingdom is skilled with divine magic, but the main town has a temple with practicing clerics of Obad-Hai. Furthermore, one of the party members (Dorian) is a skilled priest.



I think she said that none of the _Mages_ could use divine magic, and she wanted to be the first, to impress the Council.



> Bluff skill (?), the rogue insists no one look while he is going to use his ancient rogue guild secrets to operate a complex device, and then promptly just yanks a switch when no one looks.



I don't know about using the bluff skill, but this was definately my favorite rogue moment.


Also, seems to me that the ancient spellcasters that originally trapped the dragon were Druids ("different" magic, references to the four elements, other nature references: acorns & oak leaves, etc).


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## Bonzi (Oct 10, 2005)

I found the movie to be decent and slightly better than expected.  I thought the acting and story were about average for a movie shown on the Sci-Fi channel (which is to say...not very good).  They made mistakes on a few things D&D related, but they got more right than wrong and considering how many people screw up the rules in home games...I think they did pretty well.  As far as the Lich costume, considering the budget I had no problems with that either.  It would have been great if they could have had something better but the cost of doing that would have probably blown the budget all to hell for what was a relatively minor character in the movie.  I'd give it a 6 out of 10 and will probably buy the DVD mostly for any extra content.


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## sniffles (Oct 10, 2005)

This was my second viewing, although the first time I didn't get to see the final 20 minutes or so. It certainly isn't the best movie I've ever seen, but I prefer it to the first one, and it's definitely better than most of Sci Fi's "original" movies. 

Things I liked:
The cast was all British. That almost always makes it better for me.   
The spellcasting really worked for me.
Having two of the party be female, especially the barbarian.
The rogue being an older guy. It was just nice that everyone wasn't young and "pretty" (and maybe that explains why he failed his Reflex save in the mirror trap).
Appearances of familiar monsters, especially the darkmantles.
No stupid-looking spiky armor or chainmail bikinis.
The fight scenes weren't spectacular, but at least nobody looked like they were afraid of their swords (I'm looking at you, Brigitte Nielsen in _Red Sonja_).

Things I didn't like:
The overacting of the wizardess Melora.
The party seemed kind of wimpy for "the greatest adventurers in the land".
Everyone kept calling the rogue "Rogue" all the time as though that was his name.
It felt like they cut some scenes that would have helped to explain things better.
Damodar suddenly became inexplicably helpless at the end.
What was up with having the fighters do backflips? That was so lame.
How the heck could the elf get her arm back if no one at the temple of Obad-Hai was even high enough level to cast _remove curse_?
Too much yakking about those Teranian (sp?) wizards.

Still, I'll probably buy the DVD if I can find it really cheap.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 10, 2005)

1. Don't say that to a bunch of veteran players...

2. Trying to add a coolest factor to it, since we all know, they have more of  a* superior skill buying pool*. Then any other class.

3. Did you not see that curved smile came up, as the scene started to faded out.

4. Ah, the infamous backfkips...well, they didn't want to show, the standard bland fighter out the book, *that does not have hand to hand fighting*, *no tumbling for those, who wear light armor*, and on and on, I can go, but won't.

5. A fudged dice roll, on the DM,s.  



			
				sniffles said:
			
		

> This was my second viewing, although the first time I didn't get to see the final 20 minutes or so. It certainly isn't the best movie I've ever seen, but I prefer it to the first one, and it's definitely better than most of Sci Fi's "original" movies.
> 
> Things I liked:
> The cast was all British. That almost always makes it better for me.
> ...


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## haakon1 (Oct 10, 2005)

sniffles said:
			
		

> This was my second viewing, although the first time I didn't get to see the final 20 minutes or so. It certainly isn't the best movie I've ever seen, but I prefer it to the first one, and it's definitely better than most of Sci Fi's "original" movies.
> 
> Things I liked:
> The cast was all British. That almost always makes it better for me.
> ...




I agree with the pros.  This could have been SO much worse -- like Red Sonja or D&D 1.  As it was, it's a credit to the game, and the most accurate presentation of it on film.

As for the cons:
"kinda wimpy" -- Yeah, this is not Forgotten Realms.  I figure these folks were about 8th level.  That's heroic status IMC.  I figure Oberon might be 10th-12th, but he's busy.
"no remove curse, but regenerate" -- I don't know what kind of magic was turning the wizard into an undead anyhow.  I think Remove Curse might not do it.  Is was thinking they tried Dispel Magic and Remove Curse, needed to move on up to Break Enchantment, Mordy Disjunction, something like that.  Or maybe they had a Ring or Scroll of Regeneration?

Anyhow, I think D&D 2 might be a 1st Edition game, with the Greyhawk references.  That would explain the difficulty for a human wanting to learn divine magic and arcane.


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## sniffles (Oct 10, 2005)

haakon1 said:
			
		

> I agree with the pros.  This could have been SO much worse -- like Red Sonja or D&D 1.  As it was, it's a credit to the game, and the most accurate presentation of it on film.
> 
> As for the cons:
> "kinda wimpy" -- Yeah, this is not Forgotten Realms.  I figure these folks were about 8th level.  That's heroic status IMC.  I figure Oberon might be 10th-12th, but he's busy.
> ...




 I like that last suggestion - it was 1E!!

Now, let's just imagine a movie made with only the D&D rules in mind, and not real life or good movie scripting.   

During combat the characters would just stand in one place and take turns hitting each other. Every character would have a little symbol tattooed on his forehead to indicate alignment. People would get wounded in combat and not react, then suddenly drop dead without warning.


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 10, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> "Kill him yourself!"​






			
				Truth Seeker said:
			
		

> That was a lich?




It looks like a reject from Star Trek that should've stayed on the cutting room floor!


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## JoshWilhoyte (Oct 10, 2005)

Did they Raise the Cleric at the end?  Or did the rogue and Wizard die?  That part at the end where the Rogue and Wizard were tending to the garden, the guy who walked up had the semi-shaved head and the tattoo of the Cleric.  In fact, that whole end sequence confused me.  The fighter changed clothes in it twice, and I was unsure who lived and died at that point.  What happened to the four Mages who were on the tower with Melora when she used the Orb of Obadhai or whatever?  When she starts to use it, they're gathered around her, but when she's done, she's all alone.  Where'd they go?  Also, what a wussy lightning bolt.


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## frankthedm (Oct 11, 2005)

GoodKingJayIII said:
			
		

> Cleric went down like a ton of bricks; they totally violated rule number 2.  Also, I liked the simple DnD commercials, though if you're watching the movie you probably already play.  Isn't that like preaching to the choir?




At least it was reaching a target audience, Unlike the comercials to conceal herpes. HELLO? Most veiwers of this movie have not even had the CHANCE to get an STD...J.K.  

In chicagoland the BurgerKing "BK Joe" commercial ran a LOT. I was especially ammused by there being Normal, decaff & "Turbo" varieties of coffee. Just the trick to fataly constrict the nearly clogged arteries thier enormous omlet gave thier customers. Having the caffined cranked up Burger-King try to push someone off a buildng was hilarious.

Of couse it left me thinking "Where's the mountain dew...commercial?"


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## Broccli_Head (Oct 11, 2005)

i thought the movie was a fun watch with all the d&d refs. the plot moved like an adventure trilogy...WotDG1)The Goblins of Kurtal 2) The Tomb of Malek 3) Return of the Dragon

really, my only beef was that the BBEG gave into the "Ill kill you if you dont remove the curse" too easily.


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## Katcracker (Oct 11, 2005)

*Not sure if D&D1 or D&D2 is better.....*

For me this was mindless entertainment.  I thad some ups, but more downs, and a lot of questions if you knew the game or not.  I'm not sure that this movie did anything to draw people into D&D, but I did like the commercials!  They were simple and if a person was intregued enough the watch the movie through the second commercial break then they may even go and get the book.  I just don't think it a) had enough for gamers or b) had enough for non-gamers.

It was the worst movie, but it definetly wasn't the best.  A lot of my dislike though could have been cured if they made it a miniseries and actually explained all that other stuff.... as has been mentioned for instance the new sword suddenly appearing.


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## sniffles (Oct 11, 2005)

JoshWilhoyte said:
			
		

> What happened to the four Mages who were on the tower with Melora when she used the Orb of Obadhai or whatever?  When she starts to use it, they're gathered around her, but when she's done, she's all alone.  Where'd they go?




Oh yes, that was another one I left off my list!! What the heck did happen to the other mages? I expect their departure (or death) got left on the cutting room floor. Though possibly they added that last scene with Melora at a later date and couldn't get the other four actors back for a reshoot. 

I don't mind that they didn't stick to the rules; it's a movie, after all, not a game. Everyone doesn't stick to the rules during games either.


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## Ao the Overkitty (Oct 11, 2005)

When Nin pulled the gem of true seeing out of the skull, was I the only one who was thinking that it was the Lich's phylactery and he was going to need to smash it later in the movie?

I let most things go, though I did comment out loud that black dragons don't breath fire.  Saw the figurine of wonderous power and recognized it as such.  It works for the familiar joke, though.

I did also comment, "What's the point of having a barbarian if you won't let her rage?"

Anyone else catch the halflings (or gnomes) in one of the short riding scenes?


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## Knightfall (Oct 11, 2005)

LawfulGoodThief said:
			
		

> According to the "Making of D&D 2" event at this pastGencon, they filmed a scene were he finds the vorpal sword in the crypt, but they removed it in editing.




Hmm, I wonder if that scene will be on the DVD.

Plus, everyone needs to know/remember that SciFi Channel cut 15 MINUTES from Wrath of the Dragon God for its TV premiere. Plus, they showed the film cropped in the 16:9 aspect ratio. The film was shot in the 2:10 ratio. (Source: IMDb.)

KF72


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## griff_goodbeard (Oct 12, 2005)

Dragon #337 said:
			
		

> Each DVD also includes a new low- level adventure brought to you by _DUNGEON_ magazine, which weaves carefully into the film's plot.




Just got my new Dragon mag and I lifted the above from the New Release section.  Another reason to pick up the DVD.


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## Darth K'Trava (Oct 12, 2005)

Ao the Overkitty said:
			
		

> When Nin pulled the gem of true seeing out of the skull, was I the only one who was thinking that it was the Lich's phylactery and he was going to need to smash it later in the movie?




We thought that too.



> I let most things go, though I did comment out loud that black dragons don't breath fire.  Saw the figurine of wonderous power and recognized it as such.  It works for the familiar joke, though.




Yup. First thought that she was gonna roast her familiar to test the trap but found out it was a magical item instead.



> I did also comment, "What's the point of having a barbarian if you won't let her rage?"




Probably followed by "She can rage for me anytime!"....   



> Anyone else catch the halflings (or gnomes) in one of the short riding scenes?




Yep. 2 of them. In what looked like a cemetary.


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## Knightfall (Oct 13, 2005)

Just thought I'd post this link (also posted in the poll thread) for those that liked "Wrath of the Dragon God".

*Dungeons & Dragons Movies Yahoo Group*
http://movies.groups.yahoo.com/group/DungeonsAndDragons-the-Movie/

The group now has a new look and has over 200 members. We're always looking for new blood to stir the pot and discuss either "D&D: The Movie" or "Wrath of the Dragon God". I've posted a few new polls and I'll continue to make the group the place to be for the latest news and rumors related to the Dungeons & Dragons movie series.

Our only rule is that starting flame wars is a definite "no no". However, I expect the group to become "heated: as fans of the first movie clash with fans of the second movie.  

Feel free to join.

Cheers!

KF72


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## griff_goodbeard (Oct 13, 2005)

Knightfall1972 said:
			
		

> Our only rule is that starting flame wars is a definite "no no". However, I expect the group to become "heated: as fans of the first movie clash with fans of the second movie.






Fans of the first movie????


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## Fedifensor (Oct 13, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> What really bugged me about this movie was its blatant use of so-called "D&Disms" that were horribly inaccurate; for example:
> 
> 1. The hero's wife mentions that no one in the kingdom is skilled with divine magic, but the main town has a temple with practicing clerics of Obad-Hai. Furthermore, one of the party members (Dorian) is a skilled priest.




Actually, I can buy that.  Maybe priests aren't considered to be using 'magic' - they're calling forth miracles.  In Ismir, maybe what they call 'divine magic' is simply using the same principles as arcane magic, but powering it with the will of the gods.  Example - Silver Pyromancers from Eberron (Five Nations book) can get access to Paladin spells when they enter the prestige class, but use their arcane spell slots for casting them.  Maybe Melora just used her level-up from completing the adventure to enter a PrC?



> 2. The party runs from a lich, which is understandable, but they also retreat from an onslaught of darkmantles? Please ....




Gee, I didn't know that all D&D parties had the innate ability of 'Detect Creature Abilities'.  Maybe the mage flubbed the Knowledge check.



> 3. Jubliex is a magical engineer who makes scrying pools? He has no item creation feats, nor does he have arms to build with.




Jubilex didn't make it - Maluk (Malux?) did.



> 4. Damodar [an undead Fighter who has been around for over 100 years] absolutely sucks in combat.




That's what happens when you try multiclassing to wizard or sorcerer - you end up sucking at both.



> 5. Black dracoliches do not breathe fire.




Note how the 'breath weapon' explodes on impact - I think the dragon was actually casting fireballs.  It was stated as having an immense amount of magical ability held in check by the orb.

As a side note, I think the party was 9th level.  The mage had two teleport spells memorized, and didn't throw any effect 5th level or higher.  With a 20 Intelligence, she'd have two 5th level spell slots.


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 13, 2005)

Ah...once more I go viewing.

Once more, I will see all that was missed, from the first showing.

After this...I will lay to rest the demon, kick the devil out, and sent back the angel, without its wings.

There is no joy, in this tasking...but a somber lumbering it has to be...to know, in this day and age. In the Times of unparallel intelligence...we still fuddle around the potential for greatness, with a child-like play.

   

D&D #2 will be watched again, one...last...time.


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## Fast Learner (Oct 13, 2005)

On the darkmantles: does your party always kill everything it encounters, risking hp and burning up spells, just because it can? Man, if I've got a goal, something that will save the world, I know I'm not going to spend time fighting creatures I can avoid. But hey, more power to you.


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## Knightfall (Oct 14, 2005)

griff_goodbeard said:
			
		

> Fans of the first movie????




There are more of us then people think...

_"You don't know the *power* of the Dark Side, I *must* obey my master."_

Too quote another movie.  

KF72


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## Wormwood (Oct 15, 2005)

Out of sheer boredom and geek OCD, I hand-typed a transcription of the movie. 

Since I'm a film geek, I used a screenplay format (for the most part)

Enjoy!

edit: updated transcript to v1.3


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## Fast Learner (Oct 15, 2005)

Well done, Wormwood!


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## Truth Seeker (Oct 15, 2005)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> Out of sheer boredom and geek OCD, I hand-typed a transcription of the movie.
> 
> Since I'm a film geek, I used a screenplay format (for the most part)
> 
> Enjoy!




That is very geekish...indeed.


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## Celtavian (Oct 15, 2005)

*D&D Movie*

The movie really was very D&Dish. It made the movie familiar to me while at the same time making it amusing. I hope the designers of Fourth Edition were watching it. It showed some of the glaring problems with D&D. For example, the rogue finding the trap was extremely weak. Just like real D&D where rogues just have some mystical ability to find any trap and disarm it without tools or means to do so. Game designers really need to make an interesting trap finding ability with some marginal realism involved. 

I did like this movie better than the first. It still wasn't great, but very D&Dish.


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## NewJeffCTHome (Oct 16, 2005)

I enjoyed the movie.  While it was no "Lord of the Rings", it was certainly better than the first movie.  I'm not one that is too concerned with everything being 100% D&D rules perfect, though I'll smile at things that are obviously D&D influenced...  however, the lich did not look lich-like to me.  He seemed more like a pale orc or something.

Was the acting great?  no.  Was the script great?  no  Were the effects great?  no

But, the characters were decent, the plot was decent and it was better than the standard Sci-Fi Saturday night original starring Dean Cain or Coolio or that god-awful martian movie with C Thomas Howell & David Chokachi from a month or two back.  It was also a good step up from the original D&D movie.


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## Wormwood (Oct 16, 2005)

Fast Learner said:
			
		

> Well done, Wormwood!




Hey, thanks!
edit: updated version available above


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## The Thayan Menace (Oct 21, 2005)

*Jubilex is Still the "Architect"*



			
				Henry said:
			
		

> This one you can take off your list; the wizard who made the pool was Malax (or something similar) and as a human who worshipped Juiblex, he had two arms to build with quite well.



Then why does the elf wizard say something like, "This pool was built by a _fiend_ and success is not assured." Creative insults aside, I doubt she was simply talking about Malek's reputation when she used such a loaded term.


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## Wormwood (Oct 21, 2005)

The Thayan Menace said:
			
		

> Then why does the elf wizard say something like, "This pool was built by a _fiend_ and success is not assured." Creative insults aside, I doubt she was simply talking about Malek's reputation when she used such a loaded term.




The film is somewhat ambiguous on this point, but I believe that the construction of the Pool was undertaken by Malek with the aid of Jubilex. These are all the relevent quotes in the film (emphasis mine)

Berek: "*Malek built a “Pool of Sight”*, it will penetrate Damodar’s defenses and show us the location of the Orb."

Berek: "The goblins worship the demon Jubilex. *Together, they helped Malek build the Pool of Sight.*"

Nim: "As a cruel joke, *Jubilex created a flaw in the Pool of Sight.*"

Berek: "Nim! *The demon who built the Pool of Sight?"*
Nim: "Jubilex!"

Ormaline: "I can teleport us to that destination, but *this apparatus was constructed by a fiend* and success is not guaranteed."


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## Wycen (Oct 24, 2005)

Well our Sunday game night was scuttled by lacking of players so we watched DnD 2 tivoed.  Actually "they watched" while I read through Eberron books, I've seen it 3 times already.

Wow, what a group of zombies.  Part of the time they were eating, cause we ordered food, but the first group I watched it with was obviously the better audience.  These people didn't even get all the DnD references and I know at least the guy who tivoed it has been playing as long as me, (20 plus years).

Thus I think for some people the atmosphere you view the movie in is pretty important.


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