# MIC: Steadfast Boots



## Shin Okada (Nov 10, 2011)

This magic item is in Magic Item Compendium P.138. It says,



> Further more, as long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you are treated as if you had readied that weapon against any creature that charges you (and thus it deals double damage if your attack is successful), even if the weapon can't normally be set against a charge.




How do you interpret this rule?

#1 Really treated as if you were readying an attack action

So, every time an opponent charges toward you, you can make an attack. And your initiative count changes as per readied action rule. If, say, 10 monsters charge you in a single round, you make 10 attacks, and your initiative count changes 10 times in a round.

#2 It simply doubles damage against a charged opponent.

But you must be actually readying an action or otherwise should rely on AoO to make an attack against a charged opponent. So, you would better have long reach and/or Combat Reflex feat to utilize this item.

#3 Any other interpretation


Thoughts?


----------



## kitcik (Nov 10, 2011)

Based on [MENTION=85158]Dandu[/MENTION] 's ""choose the interpretation that makes it not totally suck" I choose #1. Otherwise, it would be a ridiculously bad magic item (it's no great shakes now).


----------



## ghostwasp (Nov 10, 2011)

I've always treated it as only giving the wearer a free attack against charging foes that deals double damage on a hit, because allowing it to change initiative order gets really complex and wonky if they get charged by several foes through out a round i.e. they could lose there entire turn because of the item.


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Nov 10, 2011)

I think by RAW #1 is correct.  I'm wary that it may be too strong, though, and in previous games using it have "self nerfed" myself to #2 -- need to actually ready an attack, and then it just does double damage even if it isn't a longspear or the like.

I remember recently my group was bored and a player threw together some random encounters for us to bring in an old character and try our hand at for fun.  I brought in my Goliath Barb/ feat Rogue that had these boots (and Cometary Collision and Shock Trooper), and asked Mr. DM how he interprets the boots as working.  He went with option #1, and as luck would have it our first (and only, he had to go afterwards) encounter was a trio of dire tigers.  For our ECL 8-9 characters.  Now granted, I had custom designed this character to completely wreck the face of big brutes, especially chargers.  But the level to which my character made that fight into a cakewalk solely due to those boots (well, the Knockback effect ruining their turns helped) was pretty amazing.

I dunno...charging for massive damage seems to be one of the cornerstone easy win buttons for a lot of characters and builds, I think the boots were written specifically to make that tactic something to think twice about...


----------



## RUMBLETiGER (Nov 10, 2011)

ghostwasp said:


> I've always treated it as only giving the wearer a free attack against charging foes that deals double damage on a hit, because allowing it to change initiative order gets really complex and wonky if they get charged by several foes through out a round i.e. they could lose there entire turn because of the item.



I read it that you get a free attack against a charging foe, it deals double damage, and doesn't affect your turn in the initiative order at all.


----------



## Jacob Marley (Nov 10, 2011)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> I read it that you get a free attack against a charging foe, it deals double damage, and doesn't affect your turn in the initiative order at all.




This is how I read it.


----------



## nijineko (Nov 10, 2011)

one might be justified in saying it prevents one from using AoOs if your count of chargers has exceeded your AoO count, even if this concept is in no way implied by the item text. 

i read it as someone charges, you are counted as having readied an action and set against the charge. since it does not state it uses your AoOs nor attacks to do so, it would seem to imply free extra attack in the niche situation.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER (Nov 10, 2011)

Now if there was only a way to compel your opponents to charge at you...


----------



## xigbar (Nov 10, 2011)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Now if there was only a way to compel your opponents to charge at you...




Knight's Challenge. And, typical chargers aren't going to stop and recognize random magical items.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER (Nov 11, 2011)

xigbar said:


> Knight's Challenge. And, typical chargers aren't going to stop and recognize random magical items.



My understanding of the Knights Challenge, Test of Mettle ability, is that the opponent may either attack you with a ranged or melee attack.  The Target does not need to move towards you if doing so would provoke an A.. (Which I assume, means the target doesn't have to move towards you if the target KNOWS it'll provoke an A..)
Would the use of the Goad feat accomplish this as well?  Knight's challenge is better since it's a swift action.


----------



## xigbar (Nov 11, 2011)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> My understanding of the Knights Challenge, Test of Mettle ability, is that the opponent may either attack you with a ranged or melee attack. The Target does not need to move towards you if doing so would provoke an A.. (Which I assume, means the target doesn't have to move towards you if the target KNOWS it'll provoke an A..)
> Would the use of the Goad feat accomplish this as well? Knight's challenge is better since it's a swift action.




No, because it specifically specifies that I may take other options, like spells. I think the Knight's ability specifies melee combat.


----------



## StreamOfTheSky (Nov 11, 2011)

What you guys are looking for is the Mindless Rage spell, level 2, from Spell Compendium.  Target can't use spells, items, or ranged attacks.  He MUST try to close with you as quickly as possible and melee you.

EDIT: If you don't like the single target nature of it, note that it is a valid recipient of the Chain Spell metamagic feat as well.

EDIT^2: Bah, the spell specifically says the target has to take move actions towards you.  That's so dumb...  So much for that option.


----------



## frankthedm (Nov 11, 2011)

Shin Okada said:


> #2 It simply doubles damage against a charged opponent.
> 
> But you must be actually readying an action or otherwise should rely on AoO to make an attack against a charged opponent. So, you would better have long reach and/or Combat Reflex feat to utilize this item.



The boot's main ability is the +4 bonus on checks made to avoid being bull rushed, overrun, or tripped. The bonus damage is just an added feature.

Given the boots ONLY cost 1,400 gp, #2 is the far more reasonable reading to go with. #1 is utterly broken for the cost.


----------



## LiL KiNG (Nov 11, 2011)

I think option 1 is perfectly fine.  How often do you think or know someone is about to charge you and actually ready an action for it?  These boots offer a quick defense against a charge and one attack at double damage is hardly game breaking.  As for the price, well the MIC is already well known for having wonky prices on objects but this item is not all that bad in comparison.
The text of the magic item is clear enough to me "as long as you carry a two-handed weapon, you are treated as if you had  readied that weapon against any creature that charges you"
If really worried about balance make the auto-attack on a charger their AoO for the round...  though I think that is an unfair hindrance myself - or limit to only working once per round...  
I also do not see this causing any change in initiative order.


----------



## airwalkrr (Nov 11, 2011)

frankthedm said:


> The boot's main ability is the +4 bonus on checks made to avoid being bull rushed, overrun, or tripped. The bonus damage is just an added feature.
> 
> Given the boots ONLY cost 1,400 gp, #2 is the far more reasonable reading to go with. #1 is utterly broken for the cost.



I have to completely agree with frankthedm here. The +4 bonus on checks to avoid being bull rushed, overrun, or tripped is worth the 1,400 gp price tag alone. Unfortunately, the rules as written seem to suggest otherwise, granting in theory infinite readied actions. Of course, if you are being charged by 8 opponents (one on each adjacent square), one might argue that you have bigger problems to worry about. But if you are capable of actually felling your foes with each swing (and the double damage certainly helps that), I would imagine the boots would probably only work for one opponent, if they have any reasonable amount of intelligence at all; all foes after the first would simply take a move action and then attack. They don't have to know you have the ability from a magic item, they just have to recognize the ability and adapt tactics accordingly.

#2 is the more reasonable interpretation, although it does seem to err on the side of rules as intended (RAI). And it certainly doesn't suck for a 1,400 gp item.


----------



## ghostwasp (Nov 12, 2011)

Unfortunately there isn't much room for interpretation with Steadfast Boots. It does however seem that they do get house ruled a lot, because of how they're viewed as two powerful (I definitely agree with them being one of the best buys for what they do). 
They thing about reasonably intelligent foes recognizing the boots effect and adjusting tactics is that they have no idea whats going on, without some serious mojo on their side or a bit of trial and error (with excellent communication). They would just see their buddy skewered and not the mechanical effects of the boots out of game, at least till the guy wearing the boots is knee deep in goblins-then it would be more fear than tactics.


----------



## airwalkrr (Nov 13, 2011)

ghostwasp said:


> Unfortunately there isn't much room for interpretation with Steadfast Boots. It does however seem that they do get house ruled a lot, because of how they're viewed as two powerful (I definitely agree with them being one of the best buys for what they do).
> They thing about reasonably intelligent foes recognizing the boots effect and adjusting tactics is that they have no idea whats going on, without some serious mojo on their side or a bit of trial and error (with excellent communication). They would just see their buddy skewered and not the mechanical effects of the boots out of game, at least till the guy wearing the boots is knee deep in goblins-then it would be more fear than tactics.



That is arguable. I have to assume reasonably intelligent foes have a basic understanding of the mechanics of readied actions. If a character with a greatsword is attacking every opponent who charges him before that opponent gets a chance to react, I would have to figure that the bad guys would figure out pretty quickly that charging is not a viable tactic.

*Goblin 1:* Charge! *gets skewered*
*PC Fighter:* Hahaha!
*Goblin 2:* So that's what he was waiting for. Well, his reflexes can't be that good. Charge! *gets skewered*
*PC Fighter:* Foolish goblins!
*Goblin 3:* Alright goblins, charging blindly into the fray isn't working. Advance cautiously before attacking. *goblins move then attack as opposed to charging*
*PC Fighter: **shrugs* At least I took out two goblins before they figured it out.


----------



## RUMBLETiGER (Nov 14, 2011)

airwalkrr said:


> *Goblin 1:* Charge! *gets skewered*
> *PC Fighter:* Hahaha!
> *Goblin 2:* So that's what he was waiting for. Well, his reflexes can't be that good. Charge! *gets skewered*
> *PC Fighter:* Foolish goblins!
> ...



Is this all within the first round?  If so, than I doubt this reasoning and dialogue would occur within 6 seconds.

If a few rounds worth of combat, than ok.

Knights Challenge, Test of Mettle against Goblins would make this all take place within the first round.


----------



## airwalkrr (Nov 14, 2011)

RUMBLETiGER said:


> Is this all within the first round?  If so, than I doubt this reasoning and dialogue would occur within 6 seconds.
> 
> If a few rounds worth of combat, than ok.
> 
> Knights Challenge, Test of Mettle against Goblins would make this all take place within the first round.



Well D&D has an initiative system to determine who goes first, who goes second, who goes third, etc. So at least within the scope of the game there is plenty of time to consider what is going on. And you cannot tell me player characters use the same sense of reasoning. A 6 second round can take 10 minutes to play out and players often spend up to a minute or more just formulating a strategy for their first round of actions. There is nothing wrong with this, but what is good for the goose is good for the gander.

Of course this brings up my disdain for a 6 second combat round, but that is another discussion entirely.


----------

