# Heroes Season [Volume] 2 (#33)---11/26/07-'Truth & Consequences'



## Truth Seeker (Nov 26, 2007)

*Director*:  Adam Kane  
* 
Star*:  Dania Ramirez (Maya Herrera),  Zachary Quinto (Sylar),  Milo Ventimiglia (Peter Petrelli),  Noah Gray-Cabey (Micah Sanders),  Ali Larter (Niki Sanders),  Greg Grunberg (Matt Parkman),  Kristen Bell (Elle Bishop),  Dana Davis (Monica Dawson),  Masi Oka (Hiro Nakamura),  Sendhil Ramamurthy (Mohinder Suresh),  Adrian Pasdar (Nathan Petrelli),  James Kyson Lee (Ando Masahashi),  Jack Coleman (Noah Bennet)  
* 
Recurring Role*:  Adair Tishler (Molly Walker),  Nicholas D'Agosto (West Rosen),  Shalim Ortiz (Alejandro Herrera),  Ashley Crow (Sandra Bennet),  Randall Bentley (Lyle Bennet)  


Peter travels to Primatech in Texas to destroy the virus, but not everything is what it seems. Hiro continues the pursuit of his father's killer, while Matt pursues the last Company member in the photo. Niki is reunited with Micah but has bad news, while Maya has to choose to remain with Alejandro, or go with Sylar.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Nov 27, 2007)

And Mohinder conveniently is on his way to NewO with a syringe full of his hyped up antibodies with Claire's blood, when all of a sudden...

Looks like Sylar is about to be *back*.  Don't see how that has a happy ending for Mohinder and Molly though.

Most of the episode was predictable enough.  Except now of course, Peter is being deliberately stupid.  All those super powers must crowd out rational thought. And where the hell was Parkman?

And what's up with the Company & Bennet? Why go through with this charade of killing him? Who does that help? Why bother?

Lastly, I think Hayden Panetierre is usually a quite gifted actress. But she came off wooden and totally unbelievable in this episode. The script didn't help - but there was just no believability in any of her story. None of it. 

If you've ever lost a parent - you'd know that "sadness" can't feel the shoes of a shadow of grief. The whole storyline was just a piss-poor way of handling this subplot.


----------



## Alzrius (Nov 27, 2007)

I thought this episode was pretty good; it wreaked of setting things up for the finale, but it made several very exciting moves in doing so.

The fact that Mohinder apparently knew he could save Bennet makes his shooting him in the eye a little more believable. He seems like he's finally being more decisive and not so wishy-washy.

Sylar rocked in this episode. Of course, I think he's one of the best things about this show, so I'm biased.     The fact that he was actually telling the truth about killing his mother was a delightful irony; the one bit of truth in the string of lies he's been feeding Maya the entire time. And even better, no more Alejandro! Yay!

Regarding Monica though, what a moron! We know she already watched at least one kung-fu movie. Why didn't she just take out those gang punks as soon as she was within arm's reach of them? Of course, considering that this is the girl who needed to have the concept of a "secret identity" explained to her by a kid, she's obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed.

About Claire...yeah, she just didn't have it this episode, and West seemed back to his usual, cardboard-cutout self. Claire's idea about going public with her powers echoes what Adam said a few episodes back; I wonder if she'll go through with it. It was, however, totally believable that Elle bungled her mission up so badly.

And the big question: who be the two heroes who die next episode? I'm rooting for Maya and West to bite it; they both suck pretty big time, and I'd love to not have them weighing down next season. And Sylar's getting his powers back! Awesome!

The second season of Heroes has been a stumbling block, but the good news is that it's about to be behind us.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Nov 27, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> And the big question: who be the two heroes who die next episode? I'm rooting for Maya and West to bite it; they both suck pretty big time, and I'd love to not have them weighing down next season. And Sylar's getting his powers back! Awesome!




Do we know that it's two next episode? They didn't mess with numbers and count HRG and Alejandro in there?

I'm betting Nikki doesn't make it.  As for the other.. if there is to be another...dunnno.  If they HAVE to kill off another 1st season hero - I'd say that Adrian Pasdar (Nathan) better get his resume ready. But I'm still not sure they are going to do that.


----------



## Alzrius (Nov 27, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Do we know that it's two next episode? They didn't mess with numbers and count HRG and Alejandro in there?




The preview for next week's episode said "two heroes will fall," which seems to make it pretty clear that two of the good guys will die. I'm presuming that doesn't apply to any of the bad guys since they also said, while showing Sylar, "a villain will rise."


----------



## Steel_Wind (Nov 27, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> The preview for next week's episode said "two heroes will fall," which seems to make it pretty clear that two of the good guys will die. I'm presuming that doesn't apply to any of the bad guys since they also said, while showing Sylar, "a villain will rise."




Yes. American Preview. Not the one they show in Canada (we get better previews!)

Then I bet Nikki and Maya. And I'm betting Maya gets back up


----------



## Valerian (Nov 27, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Yes. American Preview. Not the one they show in Canada (we get better previews!)
> 
> Then I bet Nikki and Maya. And I'm betting Maya gets back up




I'm betting on Nikki and Maya also.  Maya because nobody liked the twins and is interested in her at all, and Sylar's rise pretty much guarantees that she'll get wasted.  Nikki because Mohinder just got interrupted from delivering the anti-virus and will probably turn right around to go try to stop Sylar/save Molly.  I can see Nikki dying while rescuing Monica.

A couple other points:

1.  A lot of folks have been talking about the Elle and Claire connection which I think is really just trying to pull too much out of something simple.  Elle's electricity powers caught her grandmother's house on fire when she was little.  This has nothing to do with the fire that almost killed Claire and her mom in Texas.  Two fires, different circumstances, don't try to make a connection where there isn't one.

2.  Elle is Bob's daughter.  She wasn't an orphan who was placed with Bob like Claire was with Noah.  Bob brought her in to the company despite the fact that she was his daughter, and had her tested excessively- so much so that it broke her mind.  Again, I think folks are looking too far for a connection that doesn't exist beyond what we get at face value.

3.  The powers are random.  There are a finite number of powers, and we see repetition.  Sometimes parents have similar powers as their children (Matt and Maury) and sometimes they are completely different.  The powers are linked to genetic mutation that randomly occur, or are inherited from one or both parents.  The only apparent guarantee is that if both parents have the genetic marker then any children are definitely going to inherit it.  I'm quite confident that those who are trying to make the link between West and Nathan, or Claire and Adam will be sorely disappointed.

EDIT: I found a little proof that kills the lineage linkage of powers theory discussed in point 3 above:  In a Q & A Session , writers Joe Pokaski and Aron Coleite were asked whether or not it's a guarantee that powers are passed on, given that both parents are evolved humans. They answered, "In genetics, nothing is guaranteed. A random mix of traits." In another session they said, "We've seen that the existence of powers may be something passed on, but the powers themselves are a crapshoot of sorts. For example, phase-man + strength-girl = talks to machines.

I enjoyed this episode and am looking forward to next week's conclusion.  

Go Hiro!


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 27, 2007)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Regarding Monica though, what a moron! We know she already watched at least one kung-fu movie. Why didn't she just take out those gang punks as soon as she was within arm's reach of them? Of course, considering that this is the girl who needed to have the concept of a "secret identity" explained to her by a kid, she's obviously not the sharpest tool in the shed.




Her powers seem to have a limited duration and she didn't watch any fighting. Still stupid, but hey, everyone says that's because we're forgetting these are just normal people...


----------



## LightPhoenix (Nov 27, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Most of the episode was predictable enough.  Except now of course, Peter is being deliberately stupid.  All those super powers must crowd out rational thought. And where the hell was Parkman?




For that matter, where was Peter's mind-reading?  



> And what's up with the Company & Bennet? Why go through with this charade of killing him? Who does that help? Why bother?




I agree, I think he should have stayed dead longer, in my opinion.  However, a demonstration of the power of Claire's and Adam's blood was necessary to up the stakes.  The best way to do that is to kill off someone for one episode and bring them back.  I think it also mitigates what Mohinder is doing - he has seen the panacea that is a regenerator's blood.  Mohinder is more of a healer than Linderman ever was, albeit not as wise.


----------



## Grog (Nov 27, 2007)

Oh my god, this episode was _terrible_. Everyone in this episode fell out of the stupid tree and hit every single branch on the way down. I used to like these characters and enjoyed seeing them overcome the challenges they faced, and now I can't be bothered to care about them because they're acting like complete idiots.

I'll watch next week, since it's the last episode in this arc, but unless it's something truly spectacular, I doubt I'll be back after the strike.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Nov 27, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Oh my god, this episode was _terrible_. Everyone in this episode fell out of the stupid tree and hit every single branch on the way down. I used to like these characters and enjoyed seeing them overcome the challenges they faced, and now I can't be bothered to care about them because they're acting like complete idiots.




QFT

If this episode was played as an MnM campaign, I think this is how the ending would have looked like:

GM:  Adam ties up Linda Pratt and levels his shotgun at her head.
Peter's Player:  I'm going to read this chick's mind to find out the location of the virus.
GM: Ok... you she think's "Primatech in Odessa Texas"
Peter:  "Adam it's alright, I know where she's hiding the virus!"
Linda (NPC):  "Adam was trying to release the virus... he'll kill us all!  Don't do this!"
GM:  Adam shots linda in he head killing her.  
Adam: "She's lying, she worked for the company."
Peter:  "Oh alright then, let's get the virus."
Adam (NPC): "I'll be right there let me finish something here..."
GM:  Adam smiles sinisterly as he pulls out a piece of paper and writes on it using his own blood.

Later...

Hiro:  "Petah, that man killed my father.  He's a bad guy, he's villain.  He wants to use that virus to kill us all.. If you are with him, you are a bad guy..."
Peter:  "Then we fight now..."
Hiro:  "I'm sorry, but you chose the wrong side..."
Peter's Player:  I pose dramatically and get ready to attack Hiro. 

Hiro's PC:  Why don't you use the telepathy power to find out the truth? 
Peter's PC: What telepathy power?
Hiro's PC:  The one you used like 5 minutes ago.
Peter's PC:  Why should I?


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 27, 2007)

Other than Sylar, with his power of seduction, this was a bland episode.  There are a lot of stupid heros running around, plus the actting just lacked something.  Everyone seemed wooden.  Peter, needs to take a blow to the head as he was more interesting when he did not know who he was.  

Two heros die, Nathan and Nikki are my guess.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 27, 2007)

Even if Monica's memory powers last a limited time. She could have gone window she came in.  :\


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 27, 2007)

Monica, just locked up, she has no training and and panic set in, she did not commit herself to handle the results for her actions.  Other words, she had time to think and that screwed her.


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 27, 2007)

I'm pretty sure Nikki is _not_ going to die. Killing off both of Micah's parents in one (half) season seems rather over the top. Monica, maybe. Not Nikki.

Maya, has a lot of potential now that she is free of the crutch of Allejandro. It would be a shame to kill her off, but I wouldn't be suprised to see that happening. OTOH... what if the 'Villan' that will rise is Maya? She already see's herself as a murderer and we know that Sylar is great at manipulating people. I mean, I doubt it but it would be an interesting twist.


Anyway, who dies? I say Nathan and Monica.


----------



## LightPhoenix (Nov 27, 2007)

Sylar and Maya were creepy, and not in a good way.  Honestly, if they wanted to make me feel uncomfortable, congratulations writers.  Ick.

On another writing note, I really wish they'd start playing less coy with revealing powers.  The only powers we know from the older generation are Linderman and Bob.  Of course, I had assumed everyone in that photo had a power, but that could be wrong on my part.  Similarly, I assumed Alajandro had a power, but perhaps Maya has some subconcious control over her power and it didn't affect him.

So Matt just left Molly at home alone?  Really?  Stupid tree indeed.

Were I writer, I would have solely focused on the storylines moving people to Odessa (Peter/Adam, Matt/Nathan, Hiro, maybe Claire by way of Elle/Bob).  I'd dump Mohinder, Noah, Niki/Micah/Monica, and Sylar/Maya.  Of course, then half of this episode doesn't exist... which is why I'm not a writer.   

I alluded to it in my previous post, but narratively this episode had to happen to move people around, but that didn't mean it had to be so frustratingly stupid.


----------



## Wormwood (Nov 27, 2007)

Aaaaaand with that---I'm off the _Heroes _ carousel.

It can accumulate on my DVR (next to the pile of unwatched _Bionic Woman _ eps) until the day my wife and I decide to we're bored enough to watch 'em---or we delete them to make room for worthier shows.


----------



## DonTadow (Nov 27, 2007)

Can't stand the people who say they aren't going to watch every week and get on every week and say they aren't going to watch every week. Tell me a better show on in that timeslot. 

:rant ended:
I am entertained every episode though I did not like this one as much as others. It was in the middle for me. Too much stupidity from Mohinder and Peter this episode. Peter's I can buy a bit considering he has dozens of powers and I try to believe that his brain is very jumbled and pulling out a power is not as easy as it seems for him.  That said he seems a little too willing to follow adam monroe. He has a history with Hiro, and is closer than Adam.  They have stopped time and have time totalk. Why doesn't Peter try to get down to the power of thing. This reeks of DM railroading.  If this was M&M, at one point Hiro PC says he wants to ask Peter what he is doing and Peter PC listens, then Railroading DM says no, I need Peter on the bad side in my plot so ther isn't enough time. Both pcs look at the DM confused considering they stopped time.  

Mohinder is just being written stupid this season.   I just can't beleive he's such a company man now.  How can you not believe a man who has worked for the company for years.  How do you give up on a plan you wre conccocting for a year. 

I tried to rationalize why molly was left alone. Mohinder left her in a rush to get Nicki the cure, thinking she would be safe.  

Also hated the primatech security. Their security is as bad as Lex's security on Smallville.  WHy didn't they put Sylar in as secure a facility as the virus.  Why does it look like Peter and Adam just walked in. 

Very glad Sylar killed twin numero 1.  Now if we can just get him to take out twin numero 2.  I don't see that happening. Sylar is going to use her. He loves having a pet and now he has the ability to control it.  If I am right twin numero 2 will unleash her virus, it will spread. Sylar will con Mohinder and say he is the only way he can stop it but he needs his powers back.


----------



## GoodKingJayIII (Nov 27, 2007)

And now that Alejandro is dead we are back to my hoped for chapter finale:  Sylar drilling open Maya's skull.


----------



## WayneLigon (Nov 27, 2007)

LightPhoenix said:
			
		

> For that matter, where was Peter's mind-reading?




He read the virus location from the woman's mind.


----------



## WayneLigon (Nov 27, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Also hated the primatech security. Their security is as bad as Lex's security on Smallville.  WHy didn't they put Sylar in as secure a facility as the virus.  Why does it look like Peter and Adam just walked in.




They're just in the public part; I doubt very much that the vast majority of the people in that plant ever guess they work for something else other than a paper mill. So, yeah, you can just walk onto the floor of a place like that, especially if you look and act like you belong there.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Nov 27, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Also hated the primatech security. Their security is as bad as Lex's security on Smallville.  WHy didn't they put Sylar in as secure a facility as the virus.  Why does it look like Peter and Adam just walked in.




Well it is possible that Peter is using Matt's power to "these aren't the droids you're looking for" the security personnel. Of course the more likely reason is the same set of stupid pills that the writers were taking for this entire episode. 

I hope that the finale will make up for this in part. I know Tim Kring is aware of some of the problems already, and the the next episode was rewritten as a the season finale instead of the mid-season cliffhanger, so hopefully he was able to implement some of his fixes.


----------



## Wormwood (Nov 27, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Tell me a better show on in that timeslot.




Timeslot?

Wow. Haven't heard that in a while.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 27, 2007)

We need to remember that as far as the characters are concerned Sylar is dead and gone. No one is  worried about him. So Matt being at work and Mohinder getting a sitter is a reasonable explanation.


----------



## Arnwyn (Nov 27, 2007)

Not that great of an episode. As a member of the audience, I found the Peter and Adam scenes (notably Peter's behavior) to be particularly frustrating.


----------



## Grog (Nov 27, 2007)

Oh, and did anyone else notice that just two episodes ago, Adam told Peter "If it were possible to kill me, the company would have," but in this episode, apparently all you have to do to kill him is blow his head off? Do the writers for this show ever even talk to each other?


----------



## WayneLigon (Nov 27, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Oh, and did anyone else notice that just two episodes ago, Adam told Peter "If it were possible to kill me, the company would have," but in this episode, apparently all you have to do to kill him is blow his head off? Do the writers for this show ever even talk to each other?




Yes, obviously they do just as obviously they are not idiots or lazy or anything else. Characters don't just exist to pump information from them to the audience. Adam is a lying weasel and says what he needs to.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 27, 2007)

Nevertheless, I think that much of what people are finding annoying about this episode has to do with the retooling necessary to get to the climax before the writer's strike. I suspect that this episode was a draft or two away from being "totally done" before they started shooting. Given a bit more time and care, they probably could have come up with a better and more intelligent sequence of events.


----------



## Grog (Nov 27, 2007)

WayneLigon said:
			
		

> Yes, obviously they do just as obviously they are not idiots or lazy or anything else. Characters don't just exist to pump information from them to the audience. Adam is a lying weasel and says what he needs to.



Okay, if Adam's lying, then we're back to Peter being an idiot, because Adam told him that the company couldn't kill him, and now he's telling him that there's "no coming back" from getting his head blown off.... He's directly contradicting himself and Peter doesn't even get a little suspicious.

I liked Peter better when he wasn't a complete moron.


----------



## Grog (Nov 27, 2007)

Remus Lupin said:
			
		

> Nevertheless, I think that much of what people are finding annoying about this episode has to do with the retooling necessary to get to the climax before the writer's strike. I suspect that this episode was a draft or two away from being "totally done" before they started shooting. Given a bit more time and care, they probably could have come up with a better and more intelligent sequence of events.



I wish I could believe that, but this isn't the first time this season that the characters have acted like idiots. Far from it.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Nov 27, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> We need to remember that as far as the characters are concerned Sylar is dead and gone. No one is  worried about him. So Matt being at work and Mohinder getting a sitter is a reasonable explanation.




Unfortunately I don't buy Matt leaving Moilly alone without supervision for one simple fact:  HES A COP.  What cop would abandon a 9 year old girl IN NYC without a guardian to watch over her?   Especially considering that he was weary of the fact that Company people has been visiting the apartment for the last several weeks.


That of course is overlooking the fact that Foster Services would make sure that someone was there to watch Molly and would take her away the first moment that they call and discover that Mr. Parkman is missing and Mr. Surresh is also unaccounted for.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Nov 27, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Oh my god, this episode was _terrible_. Everyone in this episode fell out of the stupid tree and hit every single branch on the way down. I used to like these characters and enjoyed seeing them overcome the challenges they faced, and now I can't be bothered to care about them because they're acting like complete idiots.
> 
> I'll watch next week, since it's the last episode in this arc, but unless it's something truly spectacular, I doubt I'll be back after the strike.



QFT.

Mohinar and Peter have had the proof that the people they trust are lying to them practically shoved up their noses, and they completely ignore it. And why didn't Monica just leave the way she came in? Stupidy squared. Maybe even cubed.

Edit: Oh yeah, and can anyone give me one single solitary reason that the company wouldn't destroy a virus who's *only* use is to wipe out the Human race, including themselves?


----------



## Relique du Madde (Nov 27, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> I wish I could believe that, but this isn't the first time this season that the characters have acted like idiots. Far from it.




Unfortunately, this is an episode where the majority of the characters acted like idiots.
 1) Monica could easily have decided to leave the house by jumping out a back window, but instead she does through the foyer. 
 2) Elle decided to park in the same parking lot as the Bennet's when she could have observed them from that bluff behind the parking lot.
 3) Peter read their victim's mind without even thinking about reading Adam's mind.
 4) Mohinder leaving Molly in Matt's care.
 5) Matt leaving to find Linda Pratt even thought he was supposed to watch molly.
 6) Mohinder/Matt deciding not to take Molly with him when going on a trip.
 7) Alejandro for not calling the cops on Sylar even though he did a web search on Slyar (wtf?) and discovered that Sylar was wanted for murderer..


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 27, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Okay, if Adam's lying, then we're back to Peter being an idiot, because Adam told him that the company couldn't kill him, and now he's telling him that there's "no coming back" from getting his head blown off.... *He's directly contradicting himself and Peter doesn't even get a little suspicious.*
> I liked Peter better when he wasn't a complete moron.



Hmmm, I don't think so.

I'm at work, so can't watch right now, but I don't think Adam said he couldn't survive a head shot. Pratt may have said that, but I think what Adam said was that he 'hadn't tried that.'

Further, I believe he could in fact survive having his head blown off. It's the _blood_ that heals as we saw with HRG. He hadn't just had his eye poked out with a stick. He was shot. At point blank range. With a large caliber hand gun. The back of his head and most of his brain would have been _gone_... and for a fairly lengthy bit of time. Yet Claire's blood nearly instantaniously repaired that damage.


----------



## Grog (Nov 27, 2007)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Hmmm, I don't think so.
> 
> I'm at work, so can't watch right now, but I don't think Adam said he couldn't survive a head shot. Pratt may have said that, but I think what Adam said was that he 'hadn't tried that.'




After Adam shot Pratt, he said "She was about to take your head off, Peter. There's no coming back from that."


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 27, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Unfortunately, this is an episode where the majority of the characters acted like idiots.
> 2) Elle decided to park in the same parking lot as the Bennet's when she could have observed them from that bluff behind the parking lot.



This was quite in character for Elle. She _is_ an idiot. Well, at least very immature. Why would she have thought ahead to being seen by the Bennets? After all, she was in a car! Not standing in the open within sight the family.


> 7) Alejandro for not calling the cops on Sylar even though he did a web search on Slyar (wtf?) and discovered that Sylar was wanted for murderer..



Uh... Alejandro is _an illegal alien_ in this country. You think the first thing he should do is go running to the cops?

I'll give you the rest, but these two are quite acceptable. IMO.


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 27, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> After Adam shot Pratt, he said "She was about to take your head off, Peter. There's no coming back from that."



Yes, but he's just guessing. (And wrong, as well.)


----------



## Relique du Madde (Nov 27, 2007)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> This was quite in character for Elle. She _is_ an idiot. Well, at least very immature. Why would she have thought ahead to being seen by the Bennets? After all, she was in a car! Not standing in the open within sight the family.
> Uh... Alejandro is _an illegal alien_ in this country. You think the first thing he should do is go running to the cops?
> 
> I'll give you the rest, but these two are quite acceptable. IMO.




I'm not sure how tha laws are where ever they were, but in California there is a laws that prohibit a cop from asking for a person's immigration status when they answer a call.  These laws vary crom city to city and county to county but they exist as part of the "pro-illegal immigrant" propaganda that has been popping up everywhere.

Also, Alejandro could have easily made a call from an undisclosed location or asked someone else to make it for him (which is a possibility considering HE DID A WEB SEARCH ON SYLAR and he could have easily sent an anonymous tip to the FBI or the local police)


----------



## Grog (Nov 27, 2007)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Yes, but he's just guessing. (And wrong, as well.)



Again, even if he's lying, or just guessing, he still _directly contradicted_ what he'd said earlier when he told Peter it was impossible for the company to kill him. The fact that that didn't set off any alarm bells with Peter can only mean one of two things:

1. The writers can't even keep the way the regeneration power works consistent from episode to episode.

OR

2. Peter has suddenly become a complete idiot.

Either way, it's bad writing. And far from the only instance of such this season.


----------



## Mistwell (Nov 27, 2007)

Wormwood said:
			
		

> Aaaaaand with that---I'm off the _Heroes _ carousel.
> 
> It can accumulate on my DVR (next to the pile of unwatched _Bionic Woman _ eps) until the day my wife and I decide to we're bored enough to watch 'em---or we delete them to make room for worthier shows.




Isn't next episode the last episode of this chapter?  You can't wait ONE episode?


----------



## Mistwell (Nov 27, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how tha laws are where ever they were, but in California there is a laws that prohibit a cop from asking for a person's immigration status when they answer a call.  These laws vary from city to city and county to county but they exist as part of the "pro-illegal immigrant" propaganda that has been popping up everywhere.




It's not exactly a law, though it's effectively one since it's an internal police regulation they put on themselves. And it doesn't prohibit asking, but it does prohibit stopping people just to ask, or arresting because of, immigration status.  "Special Order 40" says "Officers shall not initiate police action with the objective of discovering the alien status of a person. Officers shall not arrest nor book persons for violation of title 8, section 1325 of the United States Immigration code (Illegal Entry)."

-Lawyerly Misty


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Nov 27, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I don't buy Matt leaving Moilly alone without supervision for one simple fact:  HES A COP.  What cop would abandon a 9 year old girl IN NYC without a guardian to watch over her?   Especially considering that he was weary of the fact that Company people has been visiting the apartment for the last several weeks.




IIRC, Sylar said to Mohinder that he convinced the babysitter to take the day off. I have no idea _how_ he did it, but I am pretty certain that does mean she was not left alone.

---

I liked this episode, and I am fine with a few of the characters mistakes. They don't know as much as we do. Adam had nearly 4 months to work with and manipulate Peter. Adam lived 400 years, and he was a kind of con-man already when he was still knows as Kensei. (He talked people into posing as him and they got shot for it!). And Peters control about his ability is very "reactive" - he rarely seems to be able to plan when or how to use his powers, he just does. If he were interrogating Adam (or later, Hiro), the situation might have been "natural" for him to mind-probe, but he just wasn't.

The only issue I have is with Adams regeneration power - how hard is he to kill? How much of what he can say about his limits is true? Maybe there was a time where he could have been killed with a destroyed head. For Peter, it might even forever be true, since he doesn't have the "real" power, just his empathic copy of the power. But maybe it's not true for him?
I hope this gets answered eventually.

Oh, and I liked the "conclusion" of our Snooze Brothers. Sylar and Maya getting together, her brother getting killed. I am really not sure if Sylars best scene was teaching Maya to control her power (talk about risky) or the way he talked about his mother, or the way he hid the brother's dead body from Maya (It's not the first time that Sylar has a corpse lying around in the next room while others speak with him...)
Only think I don't get is why Sylar ever got a watch-maker - with his manipulative abilities, he should have been at least a cars-dealer or a politician (his morals wouldn't have hurt either, I guess). 

I think Mohinder is still not really getting the Company's danger (evilness), but he is certainly getting its potential - and he is trying to take the initiative. (Rescuing HRG, destroying the virus). 

Bob is also a fascinating character - how he talked to Elle about her having to regain his trust. He has a way to get to people, though I see the possiblity that he is mkaing an error now, since Elle learned from HRG about the (alleged) reasons for her mental state...


----------



## fba827 (Nov 27, 2007)

A couple quick thoughts...

I'm not saying people didn't at stupid (everyone has a wis modifer -5 or something) but ...

1) Molly wasn't home alone -- Sylar specifically said he 'convinced' the babysitter to leave.   Why would matt have taken Molly with him if he just finished convincing her to not help him find victoria and instead "go to school tomorrow like a normal girl."

2) As for Adam saying that the company couldn't kill him, honestly, when I first saw that scene weeks ago, I did not take it to mean that they didn't have the physical capability... but rather, the way he said it, I took it to mean that they couldn't kill him based on either an ethical reason OR that they wanted to keep him around for some other purpose (like testing on his blood).  So toss those two possibilities in with "adam may have been lying" as options for what that statement from a few episodes ago really meant.

3) Was Elle really parked in the same parking lot as the Bennets?  I thought Claire just happened to notice that direction when she was hugging west at that's why she went there....  but even if it was the same parking lot, I agree, Elle (El?) doesn't have the common sense to NOT park in the same lot.

Again, I'm not saying people weren't stupid.. plenty of stupid pills mixed in with the drinking water ...

I placate myself by saying that they only appeared stupid because we have the third-party audience perspective... but if you accept the fact that each person acting stupid has an accepted belief that they think is "true from their perspective" the rest really falls in to place... i.e. Peter believes that Adam is the only one that can stop the virus (and therefore help Kaitlyn in that future), just like saving the world from the explosion he is driven and unrelenting on that path.. and so on with the others like Maya and Mohinder.  (again, this is just how i allow myself to come to terms with what I view as stupid actions  )


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 27, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> I'm not sure how tha laws are where ever they were, but in California there is a laws that prohibit a cop from asking for a person's immigration status when they answer a call.  These laws vary crom city to city and county to county but they exist as part of the "pro-illegal immigrant" propaganda that has been popping up everywhere.



I believe they were in Virgina. I'm not sure what they're laws are regarding the subject. It seems you do not either. So, WHY do you make the assumption that Alejandro would?


> Also, Alejandro could have easily made a call from an undisclosed location or asked someone else to make it for him (which is a possibility considering HE DID A WEB SEARCH ON SYLAR and he could have easily sent an anonymous tip to the FBI or the local police)



I'm not saying he could not have done so, I'm saying it's not hard to believe that he didn't.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 28, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Unfortunately I don't buy Matt leaving Moilly alone without supervision for one simple fact:  HES A COP.  What cop would abandon a 9 year old girl IN NYC without a guardian to watch over her?   Especially considering that he was weary of the fact that Company people has been visiting the apartment for the last several weeks.
> 
> 
> That of course is overlooking the fact that Foster Services would make sure that someone was there to watch Molly and would take her away the first moment that they call and discover that Mr. Parkman is missing and Mr. Surresh is also unaccounted for.




He left her with a sitter. Remember Sylar said he convinced the sitter to go home and leave Molly with him.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 28, 2007)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Yes, but he's just guessing. (And wrong, as well.)



How do _you_ know he was guessing.

Someone else here said that HRG head was blown away and the blood still healed him. But remember that last season Claire didn't come back until the stick was removed from her brain. I say the blood is a side effect of their healing powers, Linderman healed by touch. His brain was scrambled by DL and he could not come back from that. Blow the healers head off and they are done.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Nov 28, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> How do _you_ know he was guessing.
> 
> Someone else here said that HRG head was blown away and the blood still healed him. But remember that last season Claire didn't come back until the stick was removed from her brain. I say the blood is a side effect of their healing powers, Linderman healed by touch. His brain was scrambled by DL and he could not come back from that. Blow the healers head off and they are done.




No. I don't believe this will work - and I don't believe even Adam thinks it will work.

The only conclusive evidence we have seen on the show is what Peter already should know: to stop super healing, you must insert a large physical object into the brain and **keep the obstruction there**.

That is what the viewer knows killed Claire - although Claire does not know that. 

The glass shard is also what "killed" Peter - and what Peter definitely ought to know.  However, Peter misinterpreted this phenomenon before - and advised Claire to shoot him in the head in order to kill him. 

In effect, Adam lied to Peter in a way that Peter already had mistakenly accepted was true.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

Mustrum_Ridcully said:
			
		

> They don't know as much as we do.




Thank you, I can't believe it took until page 2 for that. 



> Adam had nearly 4 months to work with and manipulate Peter. Adam lived 400 years, and he was a kind of con-man already when he was still knows as Kensei. (He talked people into posing as him and they got shot for it!). And Peters control about his ability is very "reactive" - he rarely seems to be able to plan when or how to use his powers, he just does. If he were interrogating Adam (or later, Hiro), the situation might have been "natural" for him to mind-probe, but he just wasn't.




Didn't she tell Peter Primatech the first time, then lie to Adam? Peter probes her, knows there's a problem, and yet doesn't investigate. At the same time, he was locked up for being dangerous, and accepts that Adam's being locked up is somehow all just a personal vendetta. Neither of them has ever been to Primatech in Odessa, since Adam didn't know it existed, but Adam DOES know which floor the secret base is located. 



> The only issue I have is with Adams regeneration power - how hard is he to kill?




Plot Device, sorry. It will do what it needs for the plot, without much definition. In addition, NORMAL people aren't consistent in death. Sylar's recovery, DL's recovery...


----------



## Steel_Wind (Nov 28, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> Edit: Oh yeah, and can anyone give me one single solitary reason that the company wouldn't destroy a virus who's *only* use is to wipe out the Human race, including themselves?




Because "The Company" is not monolithic.  There were two factions within it: those who were pro-Adam and those who were pro-Kaito.

Victoria Pratt tells us that there are others in the Company who aided Adam in disclosing to him the location of the 138 strain  - information which had been hidden from Adam.

In a way, it is plausible to see how Heroes could come to such a conclusion like .07% and the 93% death rate that Linderman and Adam, respectively,  looked to as their "Save the World" plans.  The power makes you different and with this alienation you come to view yourself as something OTHER than being simply human. The god complex is real and is worse when you associate with others of your kind. In short - this OTHERNESS - serves to re-define your own "tribe".

From Adam's unique perspective - we are ALL OTHERS to him. It appears that Linderman, for one, shared that perspective.

And whenever that kind of tribalism cuts off the brain's normal empathy  - its bad news. When that has reared its ugly head in human history - we are a hop skip and a jump away from Nazi Germany, Yugoslavia and Rwanda.  That's the theory in the latest edition of Time magazine, at any rate.

And, it appears, the biological holocaust of Strain 138.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Nov 28, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> He left her with a sitter. Remember Sylar said he convinced the sitter to go home and leave Molly with him.




I honestly don't believe that he walked in and convinced someone (most likely a company lacky) to let him take over.  After all, would you let some random man and lady walk into a house unannounced AND without prior notification from the owner and leave them there with the home owner's child that you were told to babysit?  I wouldn't, and I don't even have children, especially considering the risk of child molestation or kidnap. I doubt that the company would take that risk considering that Molly is valuable to them since if something happens to her they loose their control over Mohinder.

Reallistically, speaking, I'm surprised that Mohinder and Matt didn't receive a call about a man calling himself Gabriel Grey coming over and asking if its alright to leave Molly with him.  Since that didnt happen I'm assuming that Sylar and Maya actually killed the sitter (which is more believable).


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 28, 2007)

Taelorn76 said:
			
		

> How do _you_ know he was guessing.
> 
> Someone else here said that HRG head was blown away and the blood still healed him. But remember that last season Claire didn't come back until the stick was removed from her brain. I say the blood is a side effect of their healing powers, Linderman healed by touch. His brain was scrambled by DL and he could not come back from that. Blow the healers head off and they are done.



That wasn't 'someone else', it was me.

 As for Linderman, his power was to heal others, not regenerate his own injuries. Even if he could heal himself it would have to have been intentional. His was not a passive ability like Adam and Claire have.


----------



## Krug (Nov 28, 2007)

Quite a muddled mess... I'll still watch it. But from the trailer, I think they should have dragged out Noah revealing to his family he's still alive. It also meant those poignant moments of Claire griefing over him were pretty much pointless.


----------



## Mark (Nov 28, 2007)

I think if the brain is destroyed the healing ends.  Linderman seems to be a direct example of this.


----------



## Taelorn76 (Nov 28, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> I honestly don't believe that he walked in and convinced someone (most likely a company lacky) to let him take over.  After all, would you let some random man and lady walk into a house unannounced AND without prior notification from the owner and leave them there with the home owner's child that you were told to babysit?  I wouldn't, and I don't even have children, especially considering the risk of child molestation or kidnap. I doubt that the company would take that risk considering that Molly is valuable to them since if something happens to her they loose their control over Mohinder.
> 
> Reallistically, speaking, I'm surprised that Mohinder and Matt didn't receive a call about a man calling himself Gabriel Grey coming over and asking if its alright to leave Molly with him.  Since that didnt happen I'm assuming that Sylar and Maya actually killed the sitter (which is more believable).




You may not, but we don't know what a teenage girl would do. 

Also, I will repeat, Sylar said he sent the babysitter away. Regardless of everything else there was a sitter there. Molly was not alone. 

Chuck it up to bad writing for the way the situation played out on screen, and for the way it made the viewers perceive the scene.


----------



## Ed_Laprade (Nov 28, 2007)

Steel_Wind said:
			
		

> Because "The Company" is not monolithic.  There were two factions within it: those who were pro-Adam and those who were pro-Kaito.
> 
> Victoria Pratt tells us that there are others in the Company who aided Adam in disclosing to him the location of the 138 strain  - information which had been hidden from Adam.



Then why didn't they destroy it themselves, _without_ telling the others? Talk about everyone taking stupid pills!


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 28, 2007)

Mark said:
			
		

> I think if the brain is destroyed the healing ends.  Linderman seems to be a direct example of this.



Linderman's power was not the same as Claire's and Adam's.

He healed things, he did not have the ability to self-regenerate.


----------



## DonTadow (Nov 28, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Okay, if Adam's lying, then we're back to Peter being an idiot, because Adam told him that the company couldn't kill him, and now he's telling him that there's "no coming back" from getting his head blown off.... He's directly contradicting himself and Peter doesn't even get a little suspicious.
> 
> I liked Peter better when he wasn't a complete moron.



Peter seems to have the Keanu Reeves/ Neo complex


----------



## DonTadow (Nov 28, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> and discovered that Sylar was wanted for murderer..



Agreed wit heverything but this. He's an illegal alien who is also wanted for murder.


----------



## Steel_Wind (Nov 28, 2007)

Ed_Laprade said:
			
		

> Then why didn't they destroy it themselves, _without_ telling the others? Talk about everyone taking stupid pills!




One of the two remaining sources in the world of the small pox virus is locked away in a CDC lab in Atlanta. The other remaining sample of the strain is believed to be under lock and key in Moscow. Doubtless, both Russia and America feel the samples they retain are at the highest level of high security containment that exist for biological hazards in the entire world.  They probably also have elements of "nuclear weapon" security  - at least in Atlanta - given that this virus is awesomely dangerous.  We don't even innoculate for it anymore. It's been wiped out in the wild since 1979.

(Note: It is possible that the virus does exist in the wild on Vozrozhdeniya Island in Kazakkstan due to a biological weapons testing program having been conducted by the Soviets in the 1970s. The scary part is that the island is in the Aral Sea - which is shrinking and the "island" is soon to be merely a peninsula - connected to the mainland. Happy thoughts, eh?).

I'm old enough that I've been innoculated for smallpox. I bet a significant percentage of the readers of this post are not though.

But those virus samples exist, just the same. Never know when you might need something like that - right?

Vague contingencies coupled with the self-assuredness that "it's perfectly safe here" are good enough for America. Hell - even WHO changed its policy and now accepts that small samples of the virus should be retained for possible research for some vague and uncertain future contingency.

If that's good enough for the UN, the CDC and the USA... 

Why wouldn't that be good enough for a dozen people at the Company?


----------



## GlassJaw (Nov 28, 2007)

Like others in this thread, I really didn't like this episode.  In all honesty, I enjoyed Chuck and Reaper this week more than Heroes.

Heroes just seems too disjointed and scatterbrain.  The writers seem like they can't decide how characters should act in certain situations.  Motivations and personalities change from week to week.  Power usage and (or lack thereof) change from week to week.  Heck, I wish there was _more _power usage.  

Peter should be kicking major butt with all the abilities at his disposal - invisibility, mind-reading, flying for pete's sake (no pun intended).  Obviously his wide range of powers can signficantly change the outcome of scenes but if the writers aren't comfortable with that, they shouldn't have given him all those powers in the first place.  The worst thing in a superhero story is selective use of powers, at least not without some kind of explanation.

Power inconsistency aside, I'm just becoming annoyed with some of the other characters.  As much as I don't like the snooze twins, why Maya became his disciple so fast really bothered me.  And as someone else mentioned, those scenes were creepy in the not-good-kind-of-creepy way.  I feel bad for Zachary Quinto/Sylar.  He was doing everything he could to hold those scenes together but he must have been like "what the heck is this" when he read the script.  I would have preferred that he just kill them both and be done with that story arc.

I really don't like the Company/Claire/Bob/Claire storyline either.  Claire has been totally misused this season.  Mohinder seems to not remember anything from each previous episode.  I also don't feel Bob adds anything.  The Company storyline has been a complete bust IMO.  Sure there's a super powerful virus about to be released but the Company just doesn't come across as that sinister on-screen.  The "faces" of the company (Bob, Ellie, etc) are more annoying than anything else.  I just don't them seriously to think that they are responsible for these far-reaching world dominating plans.

The Monica storyline went from pretty cool with some potential to a throwaway.  

But by far, my biggest complaint this season has been relative lack and inconsistent use of power usage.  It's just so frustrating, especially with Peter and Sylar.  They are the strongest characters on the show are they have been dealt lame storylines.  

They are right - season 3 better get back on track.


----------



## Grog (Nov 28, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Agreed wit heverything but this. He's an illegal alien who is also wanted for murder.



Alejandro not calling the cops is fine, but then he goes to confront a confessed murderer at night, in an isolated motel room, alone, and without a weapon or a plan of any kind? That's approaching a level of stupidity usually reserved for teenagers in horror movies.

Although, this is the same guy who decided to steal a car in broad daylight, in the middle of a town square, and with no real plan other than to break the window, so I guess Alejandro's always been an idiot.


----------



## Hand of Evil (Nov 28, 2007)

Grog said:
			
		

> Alejandro not calling the cops is fine, but then he goes to confront a confessed murderer at night, in an isolated motel room, alone, and without a weapon or a plan of any kind? That's approaching a level of stupidity usually reserved for teenagers in horror movies.
> 
> Although, this is the same guy who decided to steal a car in broad daylight, in the middle of a town square, and with no real plan other than to break the window, so I guess Alejandro's always been an idiot.




And, to top this off Sylar told him only a few shows ago that he, Sylar, was going to first kill him, Alejandro.  Sure, people say they are going to kil someone all the time but then to find out the guy is a killer.  Dumb move.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

DonTadow said:
			
		

> Agreed wit heverything but this. He's an illegal alien who is also wanted for murder.





And, as we all know, the police do not accept anonymous tips from payphones, you have to wait for them to arrive, identify yourself and your country of origin and wait...


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> And, to top this off Sylar told him only a few shows ago that he, Sylar, was going to first kill him, Alejandro.  Sure, people say they are going to kil someone all the time but then to find out the guy is a killer.  Dumb move.





Alejandro doesn't speak english well enough to understand "kill" and "eat your brains" I think.


----------



## Ilium (Nov 28, 2007)

Hand of Evil said:
			
		

> And, to top this off Sylar told him only a few shows ago that he, Sylar, was going to first kill him, Alejandro.  Sure, people say they are going to kil someone all the time but then to find out the guy is a killer.  Dumb move.



 But he told him in English, which Alejandro doesn't (didn't) speak.  That was purely for the audience's benefit (and Sylar's ego, I suppose).

I thought the episode was pretty good, actually.  Yes, there were problems with it, but all in all I thought it was fine.

I don't think Claires' grief is "pointless" even if she does find Noah's still alive.  It will help her appreciate him (and the rest of her family) more.  I think the Bennets all on one team could be quite a force to reckon with.

I am unable to come up with a good reason for Peter not reading Adam's mind, though.  Or at least saying "Let's talk this out" to Hiro when they have, literally, all the time they need.  Dumb.

One thing I'm not clear on: everybody is assuming Matt was not "the sitter".  Did we actually see him leave to find Pratt?  Maybe he's the one Sylar "convinced" (like with a baseball bat or something).


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Heroes just seems too disjointed and scatterbrain.  The writers seem like they can't decide how characters should act in certain situations.




I felt this way with first season too, that the writing/directing lacks oversight and that the metaplot is only a basic idea rather than a solid outline & episode guide. THey might have memorable scene's intended for some eps, but then it's up to the writer to fill in between, which tends to give long nothing episodes where nothing memorable happens between resolving last eps cliffhanger and establishing the new eps cliffhanger.



> Peter should be kicking major butt with all the abilities at his disposal - invisibility, mind-reading, flying for pete's sake (no pun intended).




Right, forget Peter trusting Adam for the moment.
He can fly to Odessa, read the guards mind to find the location of the secret part, enter invisibly, find the sample and destroy it. He doesn't need Adam or the mysteries around him.

But yeah, I know, he's just a normal person, so he wouldn't think of all that. Sure he uses those powers as a minimum plot advancement, but he'd never think to make actual active use of his abilities, that'd be silly. Sure, he feels like it's his task because he's a hero and he was given these powers and must use them for the greater good, but that doesn't mean he actually knows to USE them.


I also wonder if they'll ever explain how this virus occurred in Shanti, then Molly, then Haitian, then Sylar, when it's not contagious.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> I don't think Claires' grief is "pointless" even if she does find Noah's still alive.  It will help her appreciate him (and the rest of her family) more.  I think the Bennets all on one team could be quite a force to reckon with.





See, I figured that last season.

Then, this season, they reversed all that and made Claire and Noah adversarial again.


So, why should we believe this time it matters?


----------



## GlassJaw (Nov 28, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> But yeah, I know, he's just a normal person, so he wouldn't think of all that.




Heck, I'm a normal person and I can think of a TON of things I'd do with even ONE of his abilities!  Invisibility?!  Are you kidding me?!


----------



## F5 (Nov 28, 2007)

Making Alejandro's idiocy even worse...doesn't he speak to Sylar IN ENGLISH just before Sylar knifes him?  Which would imply that he knew what Sylar was saying all along?  Seems like sloppy writing, to me...

Although, to be fair, I don't see that Monica was such an idiot, unless you want to complain that she went after Micah's backpack at all.  Her power mimics what she sees exactly, she can't improvise.  She watches a video of some dude going Parkour up a wall, and she can get up a similar wall...she never watched a video of the same dude coming back down!  So, she hides on the cieling (typical move, you see it on TV all the time), but is found out by dumb luck when the comic falls...at which point the gang bangers pull their guns on her.  Just because she's watched a Bruce Lee movie doesn't mean she can dodge bullets.  I think the results there are perfectly justifiable.  And, I think it sets up Nikki to go kick some ass next episode, and save Monica.


----------



## Ankh-Morpork Guard (Nov 28, 2007)

What I think is interesting is the complaints about the episode...they're ALL valid and definitely true, hell I agree with pretty much all of them.

At the same time, though, almost all of them(inconsistent power use, characterization going from one thing to the next randomly, people acting stupid just because, etc) are basically staples of comics. For me, these kind of things don't actually detract from the show, as I'm used to seeing them in comics. Now, they CAN be done to an extreme that is just painful, but I haven't run into that with Heroes yet. Just feels like I'm watching a comic on TV.


----------



## Grog (Nov 28, 2007)

F5 said:
			
		

> Although, to be fair, I don't see that Monica was such an idiot, unless you want to complain that she went after Micah's backpack at all.  Her power mimics what she sees exactly, she can't improvise.  She watches a video of some dude going Parkour up a wall, and she can get up a similar wall...she never watched a video of the same dude coming back down!



You don't need any special skills to drop down from a second story window. Pretty much anyone can do it, and even notwithstanding her power, Monica is a young adult in pretty good physical condition. It would have been easy for her.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

GlassJaw said:
			
		

> Heck, I'm a normal person and I can think of a TON of things I'd do with even ONE of his abilities!  Invisibility?!  Are you kidding me?!





No no, see, you're a viewer, so you have knowledge that the characters don't. The characters won't use their powers because they don't know ANYTHING...


I think Micah's the only one that understands his powers.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

F5 said:
			
		

> Although, to be fair, I don't see that Monica was such an idiot, unless you want to complain that she went after Micah's backpack at all.  Her power mimics what she sees exactly, she can't improvise.



Then she must be an idiot, since she didn't plan on how to get out? If her plan was to walk down the stairs, then why didn't she just walk UP them too...



> And, I think it sets up Nikki to go kick some ass next episode, and save Monica.



This, I think, is the real plot device. To showcase folks a bit more with something more actiony, mediocre setup though.


----------



## Wulf Ratbane (Nov 28, 2007)

I'm interested in the characters that Consciously use their Powers in the pursuit of the greater Good. 

That is why I tune in.

This season has reduced me to rooting for Parkman.


----------



## Darkwolf71 (Nov 28, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> I am unable to come up with a good reason for Peter not reading Adam's mind, though.  Or at least saying "Let's talk this out" to Hiro when they have, literally, all the time they need.  Dumb.



That's the only thing I really had a problem with. 


> One thing I'm not clear on: everybody is assuming Matt was not "the sitter".  Did we actually see him leave to find Pratt?  Maybe he's the one Sylar "convinced" (like with a baseball bat or something).



Good point. You may be right on that.


----------



## Brown Jenkin (Nov 28, 2007)

Ilium said:
			
		

> I don't think Claires' grief is "pointless" even if she does find Noah's still alive.  It will help her appreciate him (and the rest of her family) more.  I think the Bennets all on one team could be quite a force to reckon with.




Now Claire and Noah both are quite a force on their own and Mrs. Bennet at least showed some spine, but Lyle's only point in life seems to be to hold Mr. Muggles. While part of the family is a force to be reckoned with there is still some deadwood that needs to be trimmed since Mr. Muggles gets more screen time and lines than poor useless Lyle.


----------



## GlassJaw (Nov 28, 2007)

Wulf Ratbane said:
			
		

> I'm interested in the characters that Consciously use their Powers in the pursuit of the greater Good.
> 
> That is why I tune in.
> 
> This season has reduced me to rooting for Parkman.




Same, although I would also add Sylar to the list.  I root for him to kick the crap out of the so-called "heroes" for being morons.  At least Sylar knows what he wants, uses his powers to get what he wants, and is PO'ed that he lost his powers.  Unfortunately, he's also been the victim of being in the company of the snooze twins for the vast majority of this season.  For shame.


----------



## Mark (Nov 28, 2007)

Darkwolf71 said:
			
		

> Linderman's power was not the same as Claire's and Adam's.
> 
> He healed things, he did not have the ability to self-regenerate.





I'm under the impression that it is an advanced form of the same power and that Claire will one day be able to do that and more.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Nov 28, 2007)

Vocenoctum said:
			
		

> Alejandro doesn't speak english well enough to understand "kill" and "eat your brains" I think.




Yet he's able to read an english edition of the New York Chronicle online?


----------



## Ilium (Nov 28, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Yet he's able to read an english edition of the New York Chronicle online?



 I can puzzle my way through a fair amount of written Spanish, but when people speak it at normal speed I'm completely lost.

*shrug*


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

Relique du Madde said:
			
		

> Yet he's able to read an english edition of the New York Chronicle online?





Hey hey, never confuse logic with plot device. He didn't just read an english edition, he successfully did an internet search for Gabriel Gray, navigated through the links and such to find a story about the murder of his mother and deduced from it the correct information.

He  understands english as the plot calls for. Obviously the series assumes you will handwave through anything that seems illogical. He doesn't understand when someone says "I'll kill you", but IS able to speak to Sylar when it's dramatically appropriate.


----------



## Victim (Nov 28, 2007)

He might have been reading the Spanish language version of the page and then printed it in English for some reason - like the ability to convince other people to bust Sylar.


----------



## Remus Lupin (Nov 28, 2007)

Doesn't google have translation tools? And how hard is to to figure out how to say "You are not taking my sister?" Granted, it would have been better if he had gotten the english wrong, but gotten his point across. I don't remember if he said anything else.


----------



## Vocenoctum (Nov 28, 2007)

It doesn't really matter how intricately an excuse can be woven, it'd just be nice if the show provided such a justification in the material, rather than fans having to weave their own tale.


----------



## PhoenixDarkDirk (Nov 30, 2007)

With his longevity and apparent willingness to kill many humans for ecological benefit, Adam reminded me of Ra's Al Ghul.


----------



## Plane Sailing (Jun 25, 2008)

I'm way behind in watching these (last episode next week in the UK!) but I just had to comment on this ep. I sure agree about the "stupid tree" thing. Pretty infuriating.

Unlike many people here, I can't stand Sylars character. He should have been dead dead dead at the end of the previous season. The fact they brought him back this season at all just smacks of paucity of vision on the part of the writers, to my mind.

Hopefully season 3 picks up and gets to interesting again (double-hopefully without Sylar, for goodness sake).


----------



## Blastin (Jun 25, 2008)

Unlike many people here, I can't stand Sylars character. He should have been dead dead dead at the end of the previous season. 

QFT


----------



## drothgery (Jun 26, 2008)

Blastin said:
			
		

> Unlike many people here, I can't stand Sylars character. He should have been dead dead dead at the end of the previous season.
> 
> QFT




Hey, I'd been saying Peter and Sylar needed to die since shortly after we figured out what their powers were.


----------



## Alzrius (Jun 26, 2008)

Well, I think Sylar rocks on toast. I love his character (hell, I wrote a prestige class based on him) and I can't wait to see more of him in the third season!


----------



## Blastin (Jun 26, 2008)

Alzrius said:
			
		

> Well, I think Sylar rocks on toast. I love his character (hell, I wrote a prestige class based on him) and I can't wait to see more of him in the third season!




Only if it's his head on a stick  
  Maybe there is room in the coffin with Adam?


----------



## Relique du Madde (Jun 27, 2008)

drothgery said:


> Hey, I'd been saying Peter and Sylar needed to die since shortly after we figured out what their powers were.






Blastin said:


> Only if it's his head on a stick
> Maybe there is room in the coffin with Adam?




I have a better idea.  Load them onto a rocket and shoot it into the sun or create a phantom-zone like prot device shove them into it then fling it out to space.


----------



## Arnwyn (Jun 27, 2008)

Plane Sailing said:


> Unlike many people here, I can't stand Sylars character. He should have been dead dead dead at the end of the previous season. The fact they brought him back this season at all just smacks of paucity of vision on the part of the writers, to my mind.
> 
> Hopefully season 3 picks up and gets to interesting again (double-hopefully without Sylar, for goodness sake).



My name is Arnwyn, and I endorse this message.


----------



## Mustrum_Ridcully (Jun 27, 2008)

You're all mean...  I like Sylar and Peter.


----------



## Pyrex (Jun 27, 2008)

They have the potential to be interesting characters, but they're just too powerful and just end up representing the forces of Deux Ex Machina.


----------



## Relique du Madde (Jun 28, 2008)

Pyrex said:


> They have the potential to be interesting characters, but they're just too powerful and just end up representing the forces of Deux Ex Machina.




QFT!

They need to have restrictions placed on their powers.  If both of their powers were temporary they would be much better characters.


----------

