# Good v. Good



## Mystery Man (Nov 12, 2003)

How would you approach an encounter where another "good" party or whatever is opposing your players? What would motivate them to take your guys on or try to prevent them from achieve whatever objective it is their trying to accomplish?


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## Oni (Nov 12, 2003)

misinformation I think would be key.  

Either one side or the other is framed, or has been convinced that the other need to be stopped for any number of reasons.  

They could both be after the same object which is despartly needed in the same place.  

If one side is utterly convinced that destroying artifact X will accomplish goal Y but the other side believes finding artifact X will disaster Z.  

Each side is convinced that their course of action is the one that must be taken in order to achieve some goal that will do great good or end a terrible evil, however the methods are opposed.


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## I'm A Banana (Nov 12, 2003)

Friendly competition?
"First team to slay the occult evil gets the sorcerer's prize!"

Matters of survival?
"I cannot allow you through, because if I do, my town down there will be destroyed. Prepare to defend yourselves, for I fight for the lives of my fellows!"

Law vs. Chaos?
"We will *organize* a revolution. Creating anarchy to depose the tyrant is no way to get things done!"

Good Intentions Gone Awry?
"We will go fight the evil necromancer king, to liberate his people! Yes, he will force some of them to die in the onslaught, but it is for greater good!"

Unfortunate Happenstance?
"We can't save everyone here! Who are you going to choose?! Who *gives* you the RIGHT to choose!?"

Best way to solve a world problem?
"Yes, the ancient magic has been severed and the volcano is active again because the demon inside is released, but we're evacuating everybody so that our team can handle it, and they don't need YOU getting in the way!"

I love to use celestials vs. my PC's.


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## GruTheWanderer (Nov 12, 2003)

*Read Superhero Comics*

I've been reading the Essential Marvel comics, the first twenty issues of Spiderman, Fantastic Four, Captain America, Avengers, etc.  Superheroes always end up fighting each other (because the villains are not enough of a challenge).  Here are a couple reasons:

1. Mistaken identity: Someone has been causing trouble in the area, and they match the heros' general descriptions.

2. Framed: As Oni mentioned, dressing up as the heroes, using illusions, or even spreading rumors can make the heroes a target.

3. Attitude and personality conflicts: Sometimes heroes get so worked up or emotional that they feel the need to knock some sense into someone else.  Superheroes and adventurers are often cocky and arrogant, even good ones.

4. Auditioning/Getting Attention: Younger heroes often feel the need to impress established adventurers by breaking into their strongholds, beating them to the punch, or challenging them to a duel.


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## the Jester (Nov 12, 2003)

There's no reason two good nations, religions, or organizations can't be enemies.


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## Zappo (Nov 12, 2003)

I can see several generic reasons for good to fight good. They may be combined, and any of them can be implemented in many ways, of course, providing a smart DM with a variety of hooks.

- Misinformation. One or both of the parties is believing in false information, contradicting what the other knows, and leading to conflict.

- Law vs. Chaos. Also, greater good versus the individual. The parties disagree on what aspects of good are more important.

- Temporary insanity. One or both of the parties are technically good but outright irrational, maybe due to magical compulsion.

- Mutual exclusion. The parties' goals are both good, but they exclude each other.

- Ancient hatred. The parties' nations/races/guilds/whatever (the groups don't need to be good themselves) have been in conflict for a long time. There is a prejudicial reaction which could range from distrust to kill-on-sight.


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## Cerubus Dark (Nov 12, 2003)

Oh for the love of ....

I feel like a kid in a candy store.  You *REALLY**REALLY*_*REALLY*_ want to mess with the most groups at the same time.  Fine here is the idea.

I know its Good v Good but comeon here is where I getta kick out of this...

1.  Who are some of the Big Bad Evils around, and who have the PC's PO'ed lately.  These are the Bastiches that are the real problem.

2.  BBE's hire dopplegangers to mimic the PC's in a near by kingdom and have them cause problems.  BBE's hire the PC's to "retrive" a Magic Item from dungeon a over in the next kingdom.

3.  Dopplegangers ruin the PC's good names with the local towns folk.  A new Group of Good Aligned Heros set up to defeat the "Evil" PC's and can't seem to find them after a short chase.  Dopplegangers mimic someone new or make it apper that the "Evil" PC's are gone.  Good Heros start the search for the missing Pc's.   PC's are sent on another pointless quest by the BBE's to retreive another useless magic item or "rare" spell component.

4.  BBE's Contact the Good Heros and tell them roughly where the PC's were last seen.  PC's at this time are now on their way back to their home town.  All the while not knowing what has happened to their good names.   Dopplegangers return mimmicing the "Good Heros" and attack the PC's making them think that they are worshipers of a evil god. (hextor or who ever).  PC's chase the "Good Heros" into a dungeon where the Dopplegangers escape again.  PC's while annoyed are on the look out for these Good heros.

5.  The return home should be there first clue as the towns folk avoid them as if they had the plauge.  Merchants will not sell to them out of fear for their lives and the city guard keeps trying to arrest them.  The Good Heros at this point should return as well after not finding the PC's at there last location.  The Dopplegangers also at this point have killed or wounded more people in the Pc's name in another town that the Good heros passed thorugh.

At this point all heck can break loose, its up to the PC's to prove they are innocent of what they are being blamed for.  If not the BBE's win and something horrible could be at the center of this game of theirs.  Its really up to you the DM to find out what happens here.  Its their story after all.


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## diaglo (Nov 12, 2003)

are you playing 3.11ed for workgroups?

the answer is always the same. kill them and take their stuff.


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## Hand of Evil (Nov 12, 2003)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> How would you approach an encounter where another "good" party or whatever is opposing your players? What would motivate them to take your guys on or try to prevent them from achieve whatever objective it is their trying to accomplish?




Conflicting goals - Protection vs Possession/destruction is a easy one and can be used for prophecy, the question is who is right.  Use the Hitler arguement here, protect the timeline or save millions of lifes (example only no discussion).


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## Li Shenron (Nov 12, 2003)

You should also care for the fact the Good characters involved in this kind of conflict may try not to hurt the Good "enemies", at least in some of those cases (while if lured to believe the opponents are Evil, they may be much less careful). I think you should suggest your player that this could be a very good occasion to test their skills in interpreting their alignment.


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## Mystery Man (Nov 12, 2003)

diaglo said:
			
		

> are you playing 3.11ed for workgroups?
> 
> the answer is always the same. kill them and take their stuff.




Come now! Serious this time, I know you've got some tricks up your sleeve that you can share.

Don't make me invoke Lor...  

Great stuff so far, I'm going to bookmark this thread.


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## diaglo (Nov 12, 2003)

Mystery Man said:
			
		

> Come now! Serious this time, I know you've got some tricks up your sleeve that you can share.
> 
> Don't make me invoke Lor...
> 
> Great stuff so far, I'm going to bookmark this thread.




see you answered your own thread. good company with 2 different ideas about what is good. one steers the company down one path. the other separates to continue his own ideals.

then the one with the stronger backing falls on hard times. is taken over by those of less than strong moral fiber. who in turn sellout to an evil enchantress. she burns down all that is good.


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## the Jester (Nov 12, 2003)

diaglo said:
			
		

> see you answered your own thread. good company with 2 different ideas about what is good. one steers the company down one path. the other separates to continue his own ideals.
> 
> then the one with the stronger backing falls on hard times. is taken over by those of less than strong moral fiber. who in turn sellout to an evil enchantress. she burns down all that is good.





Er, are you talking about Bartol and Benadette here?


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## Joshua Randall (Nov 12, 2003)

Conflicting goals, about which all the good groups are passionate.

Example from my campaign:

Group of good knights - "We must return this sacred relic to its holy resting place in our shrine, where our order has guarded it for hundreds of years."

Greedy but basically good political figure - "I will use this relic to enhance the standard of living in my city, making things better for the downtrodden citizens while simultaneously making me richer because of the enhanced tax base."

Group of good-tinged druids - "We must liberate this relic and return it to its original source location, which is not the same as the shrine that the knights are talking about."

Enter the PCs. Which side will they choose? Will they try to broker a deal? Or maybe just grab the relic for themselves?


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## Mystery Man (Nov 12, 2003)

Doh!


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## Mystery Man (Nov 12, 2003)

Joshua Randall said:
			
		

> Enter the PCs. Which side will they choose? Will they try to broker a deal? Or maybe just grab the relic for themselves?




Easily the latter.    Of course they're greedy bastiches. Maybe in the next campaign....

Of course there's nothing to say that the other goody goodies wont be gunning for them to get it back.


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