# Is It Worth Printing Your Own Miniatures?



## LuisCarlos17f (May 14, 2018)

I don't need to buy a photocopier machine if I can go to a copy shop (they are usual in cities with universities). 

I guess in the future the videogames with creator of characters will add software for the option of making a miniature with a 3D printer.


----------



## tmanbeaubien (May 14, 2018)

LuisCarlos17f said:


> I don't need to buy a photocopier machine if I can go to a copy shop (they are usual in cities with universities).
> 
> I guess in the future the videogames with creator of characters will add software for the option of making a miniature with a 3D printer.




Ah, but you already know how to use a photocopier - position the original, press the button and voila. 3D printers are nowhere near that straightforward yet. 

Count me as one who is very interested in getting into 3D printing - trying to learn and research for a purchase by the end of this year.


----------



## AriochQ (May 14, 2018)

I convinced an acquaintance to run some "Introduction to 3-D Printing for Tabletop Games" workshops at Gen Con this year.  Three sessions filled up in 30 minutes, so the interest is out there.  He may end up adding two more sessions if they can find the space.


----------



## Jacob Lewis (May 14, 2018)

Board games are popular again, and they're bigger and more complex than ever. Custom inserts are in demand to keep sets organized and neat, especially those with lots of expansions. I think a 3-D printer could be very useful in this considering the low level of detail needed to create custom trays for storing components.


----------



## pogre (May 14, 2018)

talien said:


> Terrain is a different story. Dwarven Forge's unpainted terrain made of Dwarvenite (a strong, color-infused compound) costs $55 for 34 pieces sized to what we consider a medium print by Dremel (or a large D&D monster), or $1.62 per model.




I agree about Dwarven Forge's unpainted pieces. However, I think DF's huge advantage is their pre-painted selection. Generally speaking, people heavily into DF have more disposable income than time. For me, painting terrain is mostly boring and time consuming. I would rather be painting miniatures.

The terrain company I could see really getting hurt by 3d printing in the nearish future is Hirst Arts.


----------



## Kurt Covert (May 14, 2018)

Speaking as someone who has spent the money on a printer, and put the time in to "dial it in".  It is absolutely worth it.   I've saved a lot of money by printing rather than buying.  But 3d printing isn't an easy hobby at first.  A lot of time and frustration goes in to getting that perfect first layer.


----------



## Blue (May 14, 2018)

If I buy a mini from Reaper or anyone, part of what I am paying is also the form.  there are a lot of really nice models out there by various sculptors.  Let's say I'm not willing to pirate copies of work done for model companies but only use work put up by those who can.

First, are these free or are you also paying for the model?  If so that cost needs to be included, especially when part of the allure of a 3D printer is being able to print "just what you need".  If the model for a PC that you'll print once costs $5, that's a hefty cost on top of materials.  If you might need 2-3 of a particular style dragon, it's at least split up a few ways but still could be a big component.  Even where you might want a bunch of orcs or whatever, you still might want more then a single model, maybe 4 models for 20 orcs.

Second, how does the top quality compare to mini manufacturer?  (And the selection, but that'll just increase over time.)

Third, how does the materials stack up vs. pre-made minis.  Going back to the Reaper I know how the paint sticks (slightly hydrophyllic but no need for primer), that the minis themselves can take normal transport and wear and tear well.

This isn't saying 3D printing isn't good - it's saying there's a lot more information I'd love to have to better compare.


----------



## tmanbeaubien (May 14, 2018)

Jacob Lewis said:


> Board games are popular again, and they're bigger and more complex than ever. Custom inserts are in demand to keep sets organized and neat, especially those with lots of expansions. I think a 3-D printer could be very useful in this considering the low level of detail needed to create custom trays for storing components.





I have seen many models which are for exactly this use - organizing the box o stuff which came with that board game. And one selling point is that these printers can make boxes and such with extremely thin walls from fairly tough plastic to maximize fitting into the overall cardboard box.

And some are just fun!
https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:2687193


----------



## tmanbeaubien (May 14, 2018)

AriochQ said:


> I convinced an acquaintance to run some "Introduction to 3-D Printing for Tabletop Games" workshops at Gen Con this year.  Three sessions filled up in 30 minutes, so the interest is out there.  He may end up adding two more sessions if they can find the space.




Any chance you could film those sessions and post the best one on youtube or such??
Pretty please??


----------



## talien (May 14, 2018)

Blue said:


> First, are these free or are you also paying for the model?  If so that cost needs to be included, especially when part of the allure of a 3D printer is being able to print "just what you need".  If the model for a PC that you'll print once costs $5, that's a hefty cost on top of materials.  If you might need 2-3 of a particular style dragon, it's at least split up a few ways but still could be a big component.  Even where you might want a bunch of orcs or whatever, you still might want more then a single model, maybe 4 models for 20 orcs.
> 
> Second, how does the top quality compare to mini manufacturer?  (And the selection, but that'll just increase over time.)
> 
> Third, how does the materials stack up vs. pre-made minis.  Going back to the Reaper I know how the paint sticks (slightly hydrophyllic but no need for primer), that the minis themselves can take normal transport and wear and tear well.




All the models I'm referencing are available on Thingiverse for free.  Quality is definitely not as good, but it takes paint fairly well in my experience. From what I've seen, printing minis in vinyl makes them practically indestructible. I base all my minins anyway before painting just to be safe.


----------



## talien (May 14, 2018)

pogre said:


> I agree about Dwarven Forge's unpainted pieces. However, I think DF's huge advantage is their pre-painted selection. Generally speaking, people heavily into DF have more disposable income than time. For me, painting terrain is mostly boring and time consuming. I would rather be painting miniatures.
> 
> The terrain company I could see really getting hurt by 3d printing in the nearish future is Hirst Arts.




To this point, the advantage the company is technically offering is miniature/terrain PLUS painting.  3D printers can't currently do that, so yeah that's definitely an advantage.


----------



## tomBitonti (May 14, 2018)

Dwarven Forge and Reaper Bones are two data points among many.  One needs to extend the data set, else conclusions are hardly meaningful.

Other products of note:

Nolzur's Marvelous Miniatures (Miniatures) (https://wizkids.com/dnd-unpainted/)
Pathfinder Battles (Miniatures) (http://paizo.com/pathfinderbattles)
Hirst Arts (Molds) (http://www.hirstarts.com/)

And that is just a bare step into the market.

Looking at either product mentioned (Bones and Dwarven Forge), there is a large range of prices.  The reaper May collection, at $136, is about 40% less than the miniatures priced individually.  And for Dwarven Forge, the price is about 30-35% less for unpainted (from about $4 a basic piece painted to about $3 unpainted).  Of course, painting yourself has both a material and a time cost.

And, commercial products are getting better at the same time that 3D printing is getting cheaper.  Looking at Nolzur's, in particular, the price and quality are quite outstanding -- a lot better than I've seen previously.

There are considerations of durability (Dwarven Forge is quite durable; Hirst is too, but only using the right material; plaster works in Hirst molds, but is quite fragile.)

The cost of having a manufacturing area, which is a prerequisite for either a 3D printer or for casting miniatures, or for painting terrain pieces in bulk, is considerable.  In particular, if there are any hazardous materials in use.  Space requirements or the need to handle hazardous materials are prohibitive to a lot of folks.

Thx!
TomB


----------



## Koloth (May 14, 2018)

Another question is the longevity of the 3D printed figure.  Baring physical trauma or too much heat, the life span of a metal mini is near infinite.  A lot of plastics react poorly to UV light and heat.  My 15yr old laser printer has some parts that are yellowed with age, other parts still look fresh.  Unfortunately, only time will tell which plastics will last.

The real fun will come when we get 3D printers that can also print in color.


----------



## barasawa (May 15, 2018)

3d home printing is still in the very early adopter phase, even though it's trying to push for mainstream. 
The option of being able to build your very own "custom" model is a very attractive option for a lot of people. 

Of course, costs per model change quite a bit when you try to compare them to blind bags/boxes that some minis are sold in if you consider that a GM or Player may be needing a specific figure or figures, and their odds of getting what they need sucks. I saw someone spend nearly $200 just trying to assemble one pack of wolves for a game. To him the rest of the figures were just wasted money as he either already had all he needed or didn't ever expect to use them anyway. 
Basically blind bags for minis is a type of gambling that the customer really doesn't win at. Only the company comes out ahead on that transaction. 

I know, that last part does go a bit outside of 3d printing subject by itself, but if comparing costs between self printed minis and the stuff you can pick up at your FLGS, it really does need to be part of the calculation as it is definitely part of the market.  Both Paizo and WoTC are part of the blindbag game, so its relevance can't be ignored.


----------



## Olaf the Stout (May 15, 2018)

pogre said:


> I agree about Dwarven Forge's unpainted pieces. However, I think DF's huge advantage is their pre-painted selection. Generally speaking, people heavily into DF have more disposable income than time. For me, painting terrain is mostly boring and time consuming. I would rather be painting miniatures.
> 
> The terrain company I could see really getting hurt by 3d printing in the nearish future is Hirst Arts.




I’m not so sure about that. A lot of people I know that use Hirts Arts tiles treat it almost like LEGO, albeit LEGO that you have to cast up yourself.

To create the same terrain pieces with a 3D printer you’d have to be able to have some sort of program that could allow you to design terrain pieces using the various Hirst Arts castings (or castings similar to Hirst Arts castings ) and then convert it into a file that a 3D printer could print.

Now I’m not familiar with the digital design space, so maybe there is a program out there that does that already.


----------



## pming (May 15, 2018)

Hiya!

 I plan on buying a "good" 3D printer sometime in the next year or so (shooting for around the $1500 mark). Why? I'm a 3D artist.  So being able to rough out a model in MODO, sculpt it in ZBrush, and then pump it through a 3D printer? Priceless!   I mean, the masses of RPG'ers will be buying/DL'ing various models to print themselves...but they have to find the ones they want. To me, a 3D printer is a no-brainer, really. If I need a cool model for a "dark swamp-troll" that has four arms, spikes, and chitinous plates on it...I can just make one in 3D the print it. If I need a bunch of kobolds wearing plate-mail and dual-wielding maces...I can model and print. If I need a cool terrain consisting of small craters, rocks, broken timbers and a small embankment...I can do that too.

So, I DO see that in the near future 3D printing will start to become even more mainstream/available. And with that, we'll see more and more downloadable models and companies/people that will "custom design" models for folks. Hopefully I'll be one of them!  That said...it's not QUITE there yet...hell, I don't even have a 3D printer yet, but it will come. I'm really looking forward to that day! 

^_^

Paul L. Ming


----------



## ccs (May 15, 2018)

barasawa said:


> 3d home printing is still in the very early adopter phase, even though it's trying to push for mainstream.
> The option of being able to build your very own "custom" model is a very attractive option for a lot of people.
> 
> Of course, costs per model change quite a bit when you try to compare them to blind bags/boxes that some minis are sold in if you consider that a GM or Player may be needing a specific figure or figures, and their odds of getting what they need sucks. I saw someone spend nearly $200 just trying to assemble one pack of wolves for a game. To him the rest of the figures were just wasted money as he either already had all he needed or didn't ever expect to use them anyway.
> ...




The guy assembling the $200+ wolf pack never heard of the internet??
A quick Google search & you can have as many individual models of whatever as you can afford.  Painted, unpainted, metal, plastic, fully assembled, some assembly required....  Even next day shipping if you want to pay for that.
And still cheaper & faster than investing in a 3d printer.


----------



## Yaarel (May 15, 2018)

ccs said:


> The guy assembling the $200+ wolf pack never heard of the internet??
> A quick Google search & you can have as many individual models of whatever as you can afford.  Painted, unpainted, metal, plastic, fully assembled, some assembly required....  Even next day shipping if you want to pay for that.
> And still cheaper & faster than investing in a 3d printer.




Hey! I want to see some of the stuff you do! Create a gallery thread when you have works to show.


----------



## tomBitonti (May 15, 2018)

Something to keep in mind: For simple critters (animals, reptiles, insects, birds, fish, dinosaurs), there are plenty of non-RPG plastic miniatures to be gotten, and quite cheaply.

You have to be careful about scale.  But the prices are great.  Here's one example:

http://www.battatco.com/collections/terra-universe

Thx!
TomB


----------



## jasper (May 15, 2018)

When Walmart starts giving away mid level 3d printers for the first 50 customers who buy a PC on Black Friday, then 3d printing will come into its age.


----------



## Sunseeker (May 15, 2018)

If you're producing a large number of minis, or you're making other things with a 3D printer, I would say it is worth the cost.

If you're not, and only say, want to produce a few minis, it's not worth the cost.


----------



## Cergorach (May 16, 2018)

[MENTION=3285]talien[/MENTION]:
Do me a favor, print the best model Beholder from Thingiverse in a similar size as the Wizkids unpainted model, ink both and make a photograph.

Use the default settings for this, do another print with the best settings for this kind of model on your printer. Then explain how much time you've spent printing with your printer to get these 'better' results.

Thingiverse is hit or miss in their model quality, 99,99% is just crap. The question is whether that 0,01% contains what you want. And if not, does someone else sell those models and what do they cost?

Someone else said it better then me: "Getting into 3D printing isn't like buying a normal printer, it's like getting into another expensive hobby (in both time and money)."

Also, if you need 5 Wargs and you don't care about legalities, why not buy the model, create a silicon mold and cast them in resin, then sell the original model. Chances are that you can get it cheaper then even 3D printing... I'm not advocating this, but just making a fairer comparison with iffy legalities.

If printing/making 3D prints doesn't sound like a fun hobby, just don't do it! This is not going to save you money if you want anything resembling a miniature.

If it does, there is so much fun stuff!

As for comparing Dwarven Forge to modular dungeon pieces... I don't know yet, depends on where your located. In mainland EU it's quite expensive stuff, even unpainted, but it's very strong durable. But also quite heavy...


----------



## talien (May 16, 2018)

A beholder is a complicated model, which is definitely different from the points I was making earlier.  Printing could entail:
* Slicing it in half and then gluing the two sides together.
* Printing supports that need to be filed off.
* Printing separate pieces (probably the eye tentacles) that need to be glued back on.

And that assumes it stays on the bed correctly without creating a raft.  If you create a raft, you have to file that off too. 

Here's a sample post-apocalyptic truck I printed.  I searched online to see if I could find a 28mm-compatible truck that had a mounted gun, seats, and spikes.  There wasn't one I could purchase that wasn't an expensive model, so I decided to print this one. It took a good hour to clean off the supports on the bottom and throughout the model, base it, and paint it. 
View attachment 97546
View attachment 97547
View attachment 97548
View attachment 97549


----------



## jasper (May 16, 2018)

So 1 hour clean time, how much printing time? Cost of Printer ink?


----------



## talien (May 16, 2018)

jasper said:


> So 1 hour clean time, how much printing time? Cost of Printer ink?




Hmm, I don't entirely recall, but I think it was 15 hours. Spools are $22/spool, but I didn't have a clear view on how much the print actually used. It certainly wasn't the whole spool.


----------



## Cergorach (May 16, 2018)

A 28mm compatible truck is quite a bit larger then your average 28mm model for use in RPGs. And even here you see the layers very well. But even so, I think that the better FDM printers can work decently with terrain and mechanical models that don't have tiny organic shapes. The larger latter areas you can fill/sand.


----------



## osarusan (May 17, 2018)

The real benefit of 3d printing isn't in minis; it's in terrain.
Minis are still relatively cheap, and you don't need too many of them. However, a full Dwarven Forge dungeon costs well over $2000 and may not even have all the pieces you need. I print out dungeon tiles, houses, caverns, and all sorts of terrain for pennies on the dollar compared to DF prices. I can also print out exactly what I need. Big wizard battle coming up? Print up a summoning chamber. Outdoor battle at a port? Good thing I've printed docks, dockhouses, boats, etc.

For the price of my printer and maybe $500 in filament, I've printed probably $4000-5000 worth of terrain. I've done minis too, but I get better bang for my buck with the Reaper Bones Kickstarters. I only print minis when there's a specific mini I need that I can't find for sale (I printed up a giant crayfish to use in the Village of Hommlet, for example).


----------



## talien (May 17, 2018)

osarusan said:


> The real benefit of 3d printing isn't in minis; it's in terrain.
> Minis are still relatively cheap, and you don't need too many of them. However, a full Dwarven Forge dungeon costs well over $2000 and may not even have all the pieces you need. I print out dungeon tiles, houses, caverns, and all sorts of terrain for pennies on the dollar compared to DF prices. I can also print out exactly what I need. Big wizard battle coming up? Print up a summoning chamber. Outdoor battle at a port? Good thing I've printed docks, dockhouses, boats, etc.
> 
> For the price of my printer and maybe $500 in filament, I've printed probably $4000-5000 worth of terrain. I've done minis too, but I get better bang for my buck with the Reaper Bones Kickstarters. I only print minis when there's a specific mini I need that I can't find for sale (I printed up a giant crayfish to use in the Village of Hommlet, for example).




That's the conclusion I came to as well.  For those of us who want to fully recreate a scene for a game, rather than playing the random-purchase lottery or buying a bunch of terrain you MIGHT need later, you can let all that go and no longer hoard pieces until you might need them.  I have an entire work bench worth's of stuff -- minis and terrain -- that I've collected over a decade just in case I need them.  Now?  As long as I know I can print what I need, with the exception of the most common pieces, I don't need to do any of that -- I only print what I actually use.

I'm pretty sure folks like us are high-end consumers in the hobby, and 3D printing is quietly eating away at the edges of our contributions.


----------



## tfelts (May 17, 2018)

I have a DIY printer kit ~$230 and use the cheapest filament on Amazon ~$12-14 for 1kg and have been very happy with what I've been able to print in regards to miniatures and terrain. It does take some time to tune it in and get settings right for each application.

I am using the stock nozzle that came with the printer but also ordered a smaller nozzle (~$2) that should be able to get even better detail on the miniatures, although at a slower print speed.

I have done minimal post clean-up on my prints.

Tim
View attachment 97615View attachment 97616View attachment 97617View attachment 97618View attachment 97619


----------



## Dirk Wiggley (May 17, 2018)

I have a good quality 3D printer and I find that it is amazing for terrain and not so much for miniatures. One thing the article does not mention is that you need to get a model file to send to the printer for whatever you wish to print. You can either use a CAD program (free or expensive) and it is a non trivial task to learn how to use them, and make your own files or you can buy the files (sometimes free, often not for good ones) which you can then print any number of times. I can design some terrain but the free CAD program that I use can not handle very complex objects (lots of polygons) so a miniature and complex terrain is not something I can make on my own. Also, I can get clear resolution down to about 0.5 mm when printing objects so again this works well with most terrain and not well with many minis. 

Most minis are one offs for PCs and NPS (unless you're doing war gaming or making a war band of monsters) so the cost goes way up considering the model file. So with this in mind I'll keep buying my minis from my favorite manufacturers and print my own terrain. 

Regards,

Dirk


----------



## Dirk Wiggley (May 17, 2018)

*Nice truck*

Was that a free model? It looks very nice. If it was free, where did you get it?

Regards,

Dirk


----------



## talien (May 17, 2018)

Dirk Wiggley said:


> Was that a free model? It looks very nice. If it was free, where did you get it?
> 
> Regards,
> 
> Dirk




Thanks!  And yes, model's free -- Thingiverse is teeming with free models.  Here's the truck model: https://www.thingiverse.com/thing:1474636


----------



## tmanbeaubien (May 18, 2018)

Awesome prints tfelts! Where did you get the Tomb of Horrors demon face?


----------



## tmanbeaubien (May 18, 2018)

And for everyone's amusement - a new Kickstarter campaign for 3D files!
https://www.kickstarter.com/project...printable-goblin-village?ref=friends_launched


----------



## tfelts (May 19, 2018)

tmanbeaubien said:


> Awesome prints tfelts! Where did you get the Tomb of Horrors demon face?




It is on Thingiverse but I can't remember what the title is offhand...


----------



## Joerg Baumgartner (May 19, 2018)

For the terrain market, a variant of 3D-printing might be printing molds (or master models for molds) for plaster surfaces or cast resin which then could be assembled into buildings or landscape items.


----------



## Gilladian (May 19, 2018)

I didnt read every post, but for those in larger communities who want to see a 3d printer in action, check with your local library. They may have one and may do free or at-cost printing.


----------



## tmanbeaubien (May 22, 2018)

New set of models from Fat Dragon Games on DriveThruRPG.com has both a Beholder (only 7 eyestalks) AND a large pretty familiar statue torso ready for an LED tea light....
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product...ngeon+delve&manufacturers_id=346&test_epoch=0


----------



## Printerstuff (Sep 5, 2018)

I have the [FONT=&quot]Da Vinci Jr. Printer and it is amazing to create miniatures. Light weight, compact and durable. It is develop my skills for creating various type of miniatures. It is great for me, because i cell it with affordable price and earn well.[/FONT]


----------



## Linda Graham (Mar 18, 2019)

3D printers create models in layers, the level of detail can also be affected by the orientation (hp accelerometer) of the final product on the print bed.


----------



## Green Onceler (Apr 11, 2019)

For me, the problem isn't being able to afford Reaper or Wizkids stuff, it's finding the time to paint them.

I don't care for the blind box purchase method that prepainted mins employ. And the paint is...variable.

So, I'm mainly stuck using Paizo Pawns.


----------



## TheSculptor (Jul 8, 2019)

In my experience as a modeler, printing your own 3D miniatures at home doesn't worth it unless you have high knowledge about sculpting and printing, and you print hundreds of miniatures. You'll need a good printer, something like Form 2, which cost more than 2000 USD. Printing miniatures with FDM printers is just crap. So many hours testing and changing values like retraction distance or printing speed just to get such poor results. However, there are companies that will print your files for an affordable price. Anyone can print a mini in Shapeways for just 10-15 bucks. How many miniatures would you need to print to amortize buying a printer?
If you haven't found nice models on the internet and don't even know how to sculpt your own minis, you can also hire an artist -like me - to do it and avoid a lot of teeth pain. I'm working now for Furry and the Beast sculpting custom miniatures. Gamers just send us pics and we sculpt and print their character. So easy!

Anyway, I can say 3D printing at home is quite useful for printing scenery. FDM printers have enough resolution to print cool assets and it could be an affordable way to introduce yourself on the 3D printing world for wargaming. Much easier an worthy than trying printing minis.


----------



## sliverthorn (Jul 20, 2019)

A decent compromise that my groups have done is to build their mini on Heroforge to get the CAD file and then use a local company to do high-def prints.   One player has a home printer but until we get one that is better terrain is all we can do at home.


----------



## Richards (Jul 21, 2019)

I made a pretty decent gray ooze and black pudding using hot glue guns and colored glue sticks.  Not quite the same thing, but close enough to be worth mentioning.

Johnathan


----------

