# You are all GODS!!



## HolyMan (Feb 7, 2010)

Ok SunKing (whom I hope comes back) hasn't been around and he peeked some interest in a topic I have wanted to try, and would like to keep the discussion going here.

You are all gods each of a different patheon and you are bored. Each of you in the past has made a world of your own, either a whole celestial body in the cosmos or just an out of the way plane that you use as a place to roam in material form.

But after ages of exploring, twiking, and even rebuilding it is time for something new. Hearing that other gods have the same feelings you all agree to meet in the Grey Mist, a neutral ground where you may only enter in spirit and only communicate with each other (no powers, attacking or other interaction is possible). You have come to the conculsion that a world made with every aspect of the Gods is intruging and you all now meeting to discuss it's creation.

A few things:
a) You each have a home dimension (like a layer of hell, a forest world, an elemental plane, whetever you wish)
b) You have followers/slaves/worshippers living on/in this dimension (note: this is one race- human, orc, fire elemental, with a few subtypes allowed)
c) In the Grey Mist it is RP only... the only things need to start play are:
1) Name
2) home dimension (type and name)
3) worshippers race
4) god aspect (panethoen or domains)
5) alignment
d) This will be a 3.5 D&D game that during world creation we will refine the rules and make characters (mortal avatars or some such). Then have the bored godlings go have some adventures. 

HM

*The Gods so Far:*

 The One and the Many  CN Plants, Earth, Water played by Voda Vosa
Duretep, The Lost Prophet, CN Dreams, Madness, Destiny played by Frozen Messiah
Lavaria CE Fire, Chaos, Destruction played by Rathan
 Heliasillyel Nuevuyar  CG Sun, Good, Charm played by Myth and Legend
 Sirion  LN Knowledge, Mentalism, Planning played by SunKing
Ubariya  played by GlassEye

LINKS:
http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/271814-pantheon-grey-mist.html


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## Deuce Traveler (Feb 7, 2010)

Awww... no BECMI rules for Immortals?


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 7, 2010)

My interests have been piqued, will we have to chose domains?


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 7, 2010)

My humble concept:

The One and the Many is the spawner of forests, swamps, jungles, greasslands, saltmarshes and any kind of vegetated landscapes. He inhabits one and all at the same time, traveling through the plants. It shapes the earth to fit the needs of the plants it spawns. It's chaotic nature distancing it from regular structures, like blocks posts or similar objects. It tends to destroy and reshape things, twisting it's original form. He wanders the forests and jungles, spawning new plants, fungi and mosses, and eating up the dead ones. It also spawns thousand of vermin to help it in that task. 
The One and The Many can creat oasis in the middle of deserts, creating rain and lakes, and populating them with evergreen plants. 















Portfolio: 
Plants, Fungi and Vermin
Renewal, Soil and Agriculture 
Frashwater, Rain and Life



a) Geas: A rocky world with bast rivers and lakes, and few oceans. The world's temperature ins high and the entire surface is heavily vegetated, jungles swamps forests and grassplains extent worldwide. The only living creatures in this world are analogs to plants mosses and fungi, along with vermin.

b) The followers of the One and the Many are sentient plants and fungi, like myconids, shambling mounds and treants for example. 
c) In the Grey Mist it is RP only... the only things need to start play are:
   1) The One and the Many
   2) Geas
   3) Sentient plants
   4) Domains: Plants, Earth, Water. God aspect: A swarm composed of plants and fungi, like a giant Shambling mound. This creature has like a hive mind that controls and feels every living creature in Geas. Essentially, The One and the Whole is Geas.
   5) Chaotic neutral


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## HolyMan (Feb 7, 2010)

Deuce Traveler said:


> Awww... no BECMI rules for Immortals?




What does BECMI mean?



Frozen Messiah said:


> My interests have been piqued, will we have to chose domains?




Yes you would be making your "god" as you go along but you need a base which could change.

@VV Very Nice The God of Shambling Mounds is now created lol

HM

edit; going to edit in people and their characters in post #1 VV is done


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## HolyMan (Feb 7, 2010)

Hey VV think you should add another domain I believe everyone should have at least four. Youu can look through this:

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&sour...k6WYBg&usg=AFQjCNE9D2wlxuFaVklmEM-TXtg_cZFdYw

But I think the weather domain would fit the best.

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 7, 2010)

I soooo want in... not sure what I'll be making yet.. but I'm thinking along the line of a fire Goddess.... one of the plane of elemental fire who wanted to bring her talent of lava and fire to a planet that would respect her skills with anything hot and heavy....


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## GlassEye (Feb 7, 2010)

Interested and thinking.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 7, 2010)

*Duretep, The Lost Prophet*

*Name/s: *Duretep, The Lost Prophet, Twisted Messiah, Mad Seer
*Symbol: *A burning book
[sblock=Symbol]




[/sblock]
*Home Plane: *Skelsdebraast: This used to be a place of great serenity and peace where the former lord of knowledge used to walk and contemplate many things. When Duretep changed the land also changed, everything becamse warped and illogical. Trees have eyes that watch you, the clouds in the sky shift and change constantly, rocks fall upwards and other manner of the natural order being ignored. Duretep sits on his throne which is at the top of massive plateau that has stairs that while walking forward you can never move up but walking backwards up them will cause you to move up. His throne is carved out of a massive tree that at first glance is covered with black leaves but on closer examination they are actually ravens. His throne is in the center of the ruins of his greatest library, where his change actually occured.
*Portfolio:* Prophets, Insanity, Dreams
*Worshipers: *Wandering prophets that speak mad words of the end of the world and insane revelations of that no sane mind can comprehend are the followers of The Lost Prophet. Some diviners still pray to him seeking knowledge that may be lost to some sane dieties. Many Aberrations revere this diety, especially the Illithids who have great respect for his world spaning plans
*Cleric Alignments: *CN, CE, N, LN (they rever the planning aspect of Duretep)
*Favored Weapon: *Kukri (Duretep dual weilds 2 intellegent kukris, Zhubkim the Whisperer and Tundntbur the Watcher)
[sblock=Duretep, The Lost Prophet]




[/sblock]

Duretep is the God of mad seers, false prophets, and any who find understanding within the confines of insanty. His messengers in the waking world are ravens that all have a mental connection to him, so the Lost Prophet senses through them. Duretep used to be a god of knowledge until he found out something that shattered his mind and caused his body to morph into something hideous. The gods of his former pantheon banished him to a demiplane of blackness where he stayed locked away, but the dieties underestimated him and thought his insanity to be a detremental to The Twisted Messiah. He himself is insane although this allowed The Lost Prophet to make plans that are so far reaching and rely on factors that no sane person could come up with, or diety. He waited in his prison for aeons with the patience of an immortal until a creature remebered his name in a dream, this allowed him to break into it's dream and takeover it's dreaming form. He then travelled among the dreams of the sleeping, seeding their unconcious minds with mind shattering thoughts. It is said that whenever someone has a bad dream Duretep passed through their dreamscape. Duretep wandered from dream to dream in search of a place where he can once again gain back a corporeal form, and then he broke through the barrier of theplane of dreams and stumbled into the Grey Mists...

*Clergy: *The Clerics of The Mad Seer usually congregate around prophets and seers hoping to gain any knowledge through their words, wether actual words or just crazed ramblings. They usually wear large homespun robes that conceal they're forms. The robes allow for them to move unnoticed, hide equipment, and it allows them to hide they're forms which have been altered in many ways in attempts to emulate their hideous god.

*Missions: *The quests that Duretep looks upon kindly (if he still has that emotion, or emotions at all) are those that have to do with either helping, seeing, or recording the words of a prophet of some sort or seeking retribution of a church or group who labels those who are sacred to the Twisted Messiah as heretics.

*Churches: *Duretep has few churches, perfering his worshippers to be on a constant pilgrimage to spread his words. Those he does have are usually not far from well travelled roads, if one knows where to look. They are usually abandoned (be it through the original occupants choice or not) church of another faith that has been transformed into a Church of The Mad Seer. Within these churches The Lost Prophet's followers gibber madly in unison instead of sing and take hallucinigens to blur the line of reality. Within these temples there is writing on every surface, this writing is in every language imanginable and all speak prophetically of great events that have happened or have yet to pass, and the lighting is placed to purposfully throw shadows in strange shapes.

[sblock=The followers of The Lost Prophet]



[/sblock]

*Avatar: *Altough Duretep has not stepped foot upon the earth in eons for a small period of time (for gods) he did walk upon the earth. His body was that of a well muscled man that wore simple pants. His head was that of a goats that had eyes that were blood-shot and were constatantly scan the area, but he walked straight as an arrow even though his eyes did not focus on the direction he moved. On his back were two massive black feathered wings and his hands and all over his body was writing that would shift and change. In his hands he held two intelligent kukris, Zhubkim the Whisperer and Tundntbur the Watcher. Zhubkim was made of a bright silver but the sun never glinted off of it. Whenever the wind would blow over it an infernal whispering could be heard that would drive creatures mad and once brought into combat a fog would surround it that would creep up to the elbow of Duretep making it dificult to know where it was going to hit. Tundntbur glowed a dark black and seem to flow and waver as if it was liquid. It was this weapon that Duretep would let go of to fight for it's self and as it cut through people it would scream when it delivered a mighty blow.


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## Rathan (Feb 7, 2010)

Name: Lavaria (La-var-ee-ah)
Home Dimension: Elemental Plane of Fire
Followers: Fire Elemental 
Goddess Aspect: Domains of  Fire, Chaos, Vengeance 
Alignment: Chaotic Evil

Brief History: Lavaria was created eons ago on the plane of elemental fire and even from birth she showed her talent to create chaos and fire and much much more. Even from a youngling, her talents with her massive amount of unmatched powers were far beyond her time. As she 'aged' her powers reached nearly every tendril of the plane of fire in some fashion or another, and before long her downfall at the hands of her rivals was underway. Nearing her 1000th year of power the trinity of sisters whom of which were her closest rivals, gifted their power to Lavaria as a show of trust and 'pledged tribute' to the lava goddess. Sadly the power they had gifted to her was tainted and when she went to use it as a show of reign in her power she was sucked into and cast forever to the Grey Mist never to return to the elemental plane of fire again. Sense she was betrayed Lavaria has learned to pull from the plane of fire to the Grey Mists, however she has still not learned a way to return herself to her beloved home. Her demeanor changed considerably when she was expelled from her home plane. She turned cold and selfish wanting nothing more than her old home back and will stop at nothing, even trying to recreate her home plane if she has to, and will go through anything in her way to get what she wants. Lavaria sees this new opportunity as her first step in her struggle to have her home back by any means possible.


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## HolyMan (Feb 8, 2010)

Hmmm three great concepts but. (knew that was coming  )

They all have the same alignment now that wouldn't be a problem for building a world if they were anything but CN lol but I don't want to see the kind of world they would make.

Rathan you could make Lavaria LE (fire being both good and bad)
VV of course you could go N as plants can both provide and destory
FM well madness = CN but I'm sure there are different degrees of madness so you could be N as well

No need to change anything just think on it and i think alignments will just be used as RPing guidelines more than you must do this or you must do that.

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 8, 2010)

Alright... I didn't want to be the first one however I can see Lavaria being Evil due to her vengeful nature for not being able to go home... this would have changed her mannerisms so I will change her alignment to CE


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 8, 2010)

The birth of a world:

Eons ago, a god long forgotten, forged a world of earth and water, and created creatures of all kind. Humanoids crafted at the god's appearance, and several other creatures for their siblings to feed and live off.
But deep inside, the seed of doubt grew in the god's heart. His creations were not as he meant them. He tried to erase them from the face of his world, but the creatures had grew too powerful. They developed technology and powerful weapons to war against one another. Now, the unnamed god wanted to exterminate them, and they had one single enemy. 
Great wars raged over the world, destroying most of it's natural beauty. The irate god destroyed city after city, but his sons found a weakness. Themselves. 
Only a handful of creatures remained faithful to the old god. That gave the divinity it's power. Killing his followers, the creatures weakened their former god, and finally defeated him. But before he felt, he unleashed a plague that was incurable, and with that, exterminated his sons, fulfilling his wish. 
The world was left godless, with no sentient being over it's surface. With the passage of ages, the plants, the weather and the the time itself, engoulfed the remains of the civilization, until no trail was left of it.

The living organisms that remained in the world developed with the time, a self consciousness. Several sentient plants, fungi and vermin evolved like tribes in the forest. Eventually, these organisms' life force created a new entity. They all acquire the same mind, the same feelings, the same thoughts. A hive mind was born, and fueled with the life forces of an entire planet, it became almighty. It spawned more of itself around the glove, and changed the global weather, effectively destroying desserts and frozen wastes, transforming them into jungles forests and swamps.
In few years, the planet reshaped it's surface entirely, and the life thrived peacefully.
But in the mind of many of the tribal creatures, a new feeling, and new thought began to take shape. "What if we could spread ourselves into another world?" The thought began to spread like a disease. And so, the spiritual form of the entity left Geas and traveled the planes until it reached the Grey mist. There, a new chapter in the history of Geas began to write itself. 

Hope you like it.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 8, 2010)

Hehehe glad i could jump on board before anyone took my concept. Since i never did get to satisfy my desire to play such a character (Jemal's Legends game ended prematurely), here is my deity:

Heliasillyel Nuevuyar

(_shining new light of the sun_ in High Elven)

*The Shining One, The Smiling Maiden, The Goddess of Light*

*Graeter Deity*
*Symbol:* An 18 rayed gold coloured sun disk
*Home Plane:* Solarianderryel
*Alignment*: Chaotic Good
*Portfolio:* Sun, Light, New Beginnings, Redemption, Beauty, Passion
*Worshipers:* Sun Elves primarily, other good aligned Elves and Fey may worship her as well. Bards, Druids, Sorcerers, Commoners.
*Cleric Alignments:* CG, LG, NG
*Domains:* Sun, Fire, Good, Travel, Charm
*Favored Weapon:* Long Mace (two handed mace, see below)

*Dogma: *Heliasillyel teaches that as the sun sheds light and warmth over the land, so must it's peoples be bright, warm and kind. She promotes arts and beauty, as she preaches that creation is superior to destruction. She promotes passion in her followers, as she teaches that when one is passionate they are closed to the radiance of the sun.

Heliasillyel also promotes new beginnings, traveling, spontaneity and redemption trough acting good. She is opposed to darkness, evil, selfishness and readily promotes the use of light and fire against evil doers and monsters.
*
Clergy and Temples:*

Heliasillyel's temples are made of white granite, circular in shape with a single thin and tall tower in the middle, pointing towards the sky. Her Priests and Priestesses are dressed in white, yellow and adorned with gold circlets, wielding long gold-encrusted maces as ceremonial weapons.

There exists a hierarchy based on experience and skill, as well as personal charisma and strength in Heliasillyel's order. At the very top is a Matriarch or Patriarch, usually granted with extra power by the Goddess herself. He or she acts as Heliasillyel's proxy on the chosen realm. Below him are the council of twelve High Priests and High Priestesses, who rule over the other clergy - accepted Preists and Priestesses as well as Novices in training.

*Solarianderryel *is a land of tranquil beauty, with a touch of surrealism as the sun that ever shines above is one full third the size of the sky. The giant orb of bright luminosity, that would normally leave the earth scorched and barren, sheds warm yellow light that does not hurt the eyes even when looking directly at it.

The land is fields, meadows, lakes and creeks, shrubs and flowers, misty mountains and deep forests, populated by all manner of insects and animals, with an abundant emphasis on butterflies. It is a wonder to behold the Sea of Life - a wide, endless savanna of green grass, that houses every form of butterfly imaginable. 

Around the equator of the world is a scorching, bright desert, that is inhibited only by the most adaptive creatures.

Solarianderryel holds one enormous city - Helivyalla, perched atop a plateau thousands of feet up in a mountain, so that it is even closer to the Sun. The city is dominated by a massive temple, with it's single tower reaching for the skies, hundreds of feet above the streets below. Helivyalla is inhibited only by the High Sun Elves, who have chosen to come here from the Prime Material plane, have been called by their Goddesss or have been born here. The Elves in Solarianderryel devote their time to art, sports and exploration, as their Goddess values beauty in all things, as well as spontaneity and creativeness.

It is quite often that the younger Sun Elves born and raised in Helivyalla decide to explore and adventure on the Prime Material plane or even on the home plains of other deities, so long as they are benevolent towards Heliasillyel's followers.

Heliasillyel's story:

Since the primordial chaos of Creation, every world that supported life, had a sun in it's skies. Each and every sentient race in existence, began it's worshiping and religions by revering the Sun. Heliasillyel took form and power once the Sun Elves began to advance as a separate race, and rapidly grew in power as her worshipers were blessed with natural longevity.

The Goddess, true to her children's character, loves beauty in art and form, and encourages new beginnings and spontaneity. She does not equate herself with Lavaria's violence and fiery rage, but instead with a tranquil light and benevolent demeanor.

Heliasillyel enjoys taking up the form of a mortal Sun Elven woman, walking thre streets of Helivyalla and intermingling with her people. The Goddess of the Sun enjoys dance, song, music and laughter, and will frequently indulge in the week-long festivals that her followers organize for her. 


Avatar:

Heliasillyel's mortal form is that of a radiant Sun Elven beauty, visibly young but somehow ageless as well. She has long, flowing light blonde hair, that is constantly shifting around as if a light breeze is blowing trough it. Her skin is the usual copper tone of the Sun Elves, and her body is perfect in every detail, tall, slender, with long hips and a full chest.

Heliasillyel's eyes glow with a dim yellow light, but are otherwise golden in colour. When she is enraged (which happens rarely as Heliasillyel is a benevolent and care-free deity), the light grows bright and the colour changes to that of molten copper.

The Goddess's avatar is dressed in a white linen robe with a golden belt tightening her waist, the buckle being Heliasillyel's holy symbol. When fighting, she wields a long mace with utmost proficiency:

[sblock=Long Mace]A two-handed heavy mace. Stats:
Damage: 2d6, Critical:              19-20/×3, Bludgeoning
Exotic Weapon.[/sblock]


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## Sunking (Feb 8, 2010)

*1) Sirion* 
- Titles: Keeper of civilization, Scourge of the illithid, The Enlighten One, First among the Elans.
- Symbol: A eye, in a sun, in a Pyramided
- Favored weapon: The Ki (Unarmed)
*2) Home plane: Demiplane; The Emerald Bastion*
*3) Elans*
- Worshipers: Psions, Monks, Generals and Elans
*4)Domains: Knowledge, Mentalism, Community and Planning*
- Portfolio: Elans, Civilization, Strategy, Perfection of body and mind.
*5) Alignment: Lawful Neutral*

Dogma
Enlightment is archived thru Perfection of one self, master thy body and mind and thou have mastered all.
Civilization must endure, because thru evolution of nations whole races reach for Perfection and Enlightment. 
Preserve Knowledge so that we can build on what came before, Knowledge is never evil.
War is part of civilizations evolution and necessary sometimes, but avoid unnecessary destruction and destruction for destructions own sake.
Illithid and their kind are the greatest enemy of all, the must be fought and exterminated wherever found and at all costs.
---
More to follow (such as history of sirion and description of the Emerald bastion (its in my head but havent time right now at work))

like to challange myself (seems i have endet up creating a god who is opposide of all 3 exsisting) but hoping for some gods who i can be a little more frindly with.
EDIT 1: seems it got what i was asking for while posting (even throu she is chaotic)
EDIT 2: addet pic of symbol made quickly in paint (+ edit3 og 4 to get the pic to work)


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 8, 2010)

Hmmm... Interesting Masonic symbol you chose there  But it reminded me to add a holy symbol to my writeup. Heliasillyel is Chaotic in the sense she does not like laws overruling good intentions or supporting evil ones. She is also a spontaneous and inspired deity, and spontaneity and inspiration are chaotic.

On Avatars:

Here is what i am proposing.

1. We keep it PHB only as far as classes are concerned. Otherwise it will become a big big mess with all the extra sources, and they will become too broken.
2. We get 50 Character levels to do with as we please.
3. No PRCs. Epic rules should be allowed for feats, etc.
4. Equipment: So long as we keep it SRD only, i think that anything we want to fit on the avatar is OK. Max enchantment: +6.

I'll look in to the Deities and Demigods book later on, i think each deity gets his own Domain spells for free or something, i have to look it up.


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## Sunking (Feb 8, 2010)

on the avartar

1) personaly hoping for a little more (Psion mostly) should mean we could put in the complete series and XPH without to much trouble.

2) 50 is alot mabey 30 is better, simpler and we are young gods (with a rule about max 3 mabey 5 base classes)

3) one PRC per god is alowed (great flawor)

And it up to the DM (HolyMan) to deside wich things are just to cheesy such at the Kobolt god of ubermunching by the name of Pun-Pun or PRC's that just plain are to good.

My 5 cents on avartar(s) not the movie

----
[sblock=Long Mace]A two-handed heavy mace. Stats:
Damage: 2d6, Critical: 19-20/×3, Bludgeoning
Exotic Weapon.[/sblock]

why this so difrent crit from other maces?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 8, 2010)

I suggest we keep to the core only mainly because HM doesn't have access to extra sources, and I don't want to provide writeups for class after class  30 levels is too little IMO, it means that several high level chars (low epic - CLvl 20-25, appropriate for a High Priest or a powerful Lich or something) will be able to splatter a deity's avatar, provided we don't use our Salient Life and Death abilities in combat.

The mace is an Exotic weapon, thus requiring an extra feat to wield effectively. That's it's special ability.


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## HolyMan (Feb 8, 2010)

Lot to look up on and I need to be out the door to work but like what I am seeing.

Sorry ML is right I don't have a lot of sources (actually just the core books  ) so we would need to keep to those. Don't forget ECL in your figuring out of Avatars, I'm sure some of you may want to play non standard races from the MM, (putting my foot down- No Dragon Avatars sorry).

What about 40 lvls (20/20 is what most deities are right?) but don't quote me on that I am trying to figure out what kind of adventure gods have as they walk a newly created world.

VV - great work buddy 

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 8, 2010)

HM i think you should assign a finite number of Divine Ranks for the pantheon and divide them between the gods. More on that in this book. Deities and Demigods.

I highly advise you all to give it a once-over. Also, i'll be addings stuff in my own writeup as well.

Oh definitely read Chapter 2: Deities Defined. If someone is having trouble downloading the file or some other issues, i can post that info. It is very relevant to our situtation, as it explains that most deities are 20HD outsiders with 40 character levels. It gives them 30,000 xp for spellcasting purposes per week, it explains Immunites, AC, DR, Divine Ranks etc. I really hope you can all read this, we don't need to discover the wheel for this game to work.

For Abilities it's entirely up to HM. They all seem to be custom. For example, here are Wee Jas's stats: Str 24, Dex 27, Con 24, Int 47, Wis 34, Cha 29.

Even if i am to ignore the bucketloads of info regarding stat blocks, here is what our entries should look like as far as RPing is concerned (already redid mine):

*Name:* The first line gives the name by which the deity is generally known. Other names or titles attributed to the deity (if any) are given immediately below the name.

*Symbol:* A short description of the holy or unholy symbol carried by the deity’s clerics. This symbol is often used on altars or other items dedicated to the deity.

*Home Plane:* The portion of the cosmos where the deity chiefly resides.

*Alignment:* The deity’s alignment. Deities follow the same alignments as mortals do; see Chapter 6 of the Player’s Handbook.

*Portfolio:* The aspects of mortal existence with which the deity is most often associated. Portfolio elements are listed roughly in their order of importance to the deity.

*Worshipers:* Those who worship or venerate the deity, roughly in order of their number and importance to the deity.

*Cleric Alignments:* What alignments the deity’s clerics can have. As noted in the Player’s Handbook, a cleric typically has the same alignment as his deities. Some clerics are one step away from their respective deities. For example, most clerics of Heironeous (who is lawful good) are lawful good themselves, but some are lawful neutral or neutral good. A cleric may not be neutral unless his deity is neutral. Two alignments are within one step of each other if they appear adjacent to each other horizontally or vertically on the following chart. Alignments that are adjacent to each other on a diagonal are not within one step.

Some deities do not accept clerics of all alignments that are within one step of their own. For example, St. Cuthbert, a lawful neutral deity, only has lawful good or lawful neutral clerics.

*Domains:* Clerics of the deity can choose from among the domains listed here. A deity can use any domain spell it can grant as a spell-like ability usable at will. It also can use any domain power it can grant at least once per day per divine rank. Turning or rebuking undead is not a granted power but a cleric class ability. A deity can turn or rebuke undead only if it has levels in the cleric class or some special power over undead.

*Favored Weapon:* What weapon the deity favors. The deity’s clerics generally prefer to use such weapons, and certain spells that clerics cast, such as spiritual weapon, may have effects that resemble this weapon.
*
DESCRIPTIVE TEXT*

Immediately following the deity statistics block is information about what the deity looks like and other general facts. 

*Dogma:* The next section of text relates the basic tenets of the deity’s creed or teachings.

*Clergy and Temples:* This text gives details of how the deity’s clerics act and the types of temples or shrines dedicated to the deity.


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## Sunking (Feb 8, 2010)

first it seems XPH is off so ill have to go other way then Sirion alot of his concept was psionic, but i have other ideas.

the reason i sugested lvl 30 is with Divine rank, divine immunities and salient divine abilitys we would more then up to beating lvl 40 partys of non-divinity (ofcource this is if epic spellcasting is banned, if not all bets are off and the casters win no mater if divine or not)

i would sugest all of the starting gods starts off with same Divine rank and then acording to what happens get more or lose some (and might even be that the amount we start with toghter is all there is so if one gets higher Divine Rank another must fall)

so my other ideas in basis form

The proctector
somthing Monk/paladin LG protector of mankind and civilization

The Hunter
Minotaur Barbarian/Druid NE (you keep what u kill)

And fore the adventurs i dont think that this kind of campagin is in for alot of roll playing its more Roleplaying heavy and the roll playing are for special ocations


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 8, 2010)

And why don't we use this The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org It is open content for everything you might need.


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## GlassEye (Feb 8, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> And why don't we use this The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org It is open content for everything you might need.




I second this.  Using the SRD will mean Sunking could continue with the original (awesome) idea...


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## Deuce Traveler (Feb 8, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> What does BECMI mean?




Original Mentzer DnD and the I stands for the immortal rules.


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## Sunking (Feb 9, 2010)

first weee my first XP thx GlassEye and now for somthing completly difrent...

The creation i would suggest would be

Allowed Sources = The Hypertext d20 SRD (v3.5 d20 System Reference Document) :: d20srd.org

stats 32 points buy (rest must come from lvl raises and feats)

lvl 40 with max one PRC and max 3 base classes (remember ECL if u chose somthing weird)

That the gods start as lesser deties divine rank 6-10(All at same rank) and salint divine abilitys must be chosen to fit domains (would recomend rank 7)

AND NO EPIC SPELCASTING!!! it bad and broken we don't need to go there plz.

---
now the thing i can't figure out is gold how much becaus it seems to be non-important but if no limit someone will break it here. or i have a bad fealing about this
---

if hypertext is in so is Sirion else im thinking of going with the hunter he is take form in my head MuuHaha


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 9, 2010)

What if we put a limit on what items can be brought in instead of money.

- 1-2 weapons of your choice
- a set amount of rods, wands, scrolls, etc
- 1 set of armor, other defensive item, robe, etc 
- set number of mgic items that don't fall under any of the othe categories

I'm kind of new to this stuff, but I'm just voicing an opinion


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 9, 2010)

I say no magic items. No gold. It'll have no sense at all: If one can create a demiplane, creating a magical item would be trivial, regardless of how powerfull it could be. 
Sure, weapons are ok, but non magical weapons. 
And... Wands? Scrolls? Why would a deity bother with that when it can cast his domain spells at will?


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2010)

To much to comment on so let me start by thanking ML for the pdf that will help greatly in this.

And I want to ask SunKing if he will be co-DM for this I will diffently need one. And I hope he will run his game later on and let me play 

Ok before I go back and re-read allowed source will be Core 3.5 and the SRD I have access to all that I am counting on everyone here

 checking character avatars for play in the newly created world will be hard and I want to be as fair as possible.

ok let me read some more then comment some more.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't think it nesscessary for all the information to be listed before play in The Grey Mist as you suggested in this post:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/5082261-post20.html

To much to quote LOL

Characters need not be defined and in stone then. We will be working as we go although everyone does have what they want defined and ready. Which is good, but in the Grey Mist you are all coming together with a common goal in mind and part of the fun there is to RP and see what gets created. 

Characters need not be ready as I was thinking of maybe starting the IC before the end of the month. We have some godlings and others could come join the conversation at different times (or before it even begins you are gods after all). The point is - The only thing truly need to start is a name and a concept, which could be changed if you wanted as anything is possible in D&D. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2010)

Deuce Traveler said:


> Original Mentzer DnD and the I stands for the immortal rules.




The Immortals Box Set boy does that bring back memories.  

My RL group back in the mid 80's never got out of the blue box set, and then AD&D2e came out in '89 and we never went back to basic d&d again. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2010)

Sunking said:


> stats 32 points buy (rest must come from lvl raises and feats)
> 
> lvl 40 with max one PRC and max 3 base classes (remember ECL if u chose somthing weird)
> 
> That the gods start as lesser deties divine rank 6-10(All at same rank) and salint divine abilitys must be chosen to fit domains (would recomend rank 7)




Like it lets use thos as the base and see what we get we can add/subtract if we really need to.

Hold off on Divine Ranks a couple days I have no knowledge of them but thanks to ML I will be reading up on them he next couple days. 



Frozen Messiah said:


> What if we put a limit on what items can be brought in instead of money.
> 
> - 1-2 weapons of your choice
> - a set amount of rods, wands, scrolls, etc
> ...




That is a great way to handle items FM everyone will have a "favored weapon" and I will think on wat else to allow.

Keep the ideals a coming.



Voda Vosa said:


> I say no magic items. No gold. It'll have no sense at all: If one can create a demiplane, creating a magical item would be trivial, regardless of how powerfull it could be.
> Sure, weapons are ok, but non magical weapons.
> And... Wands? Scrolls? Why would a deity bother with that when it can cast his domain spells at will?




Cast domain spells at will?? I do not know anything about this either. All his domain spells from all four domains? Some things may make no sense and you are right createing a homeplane makes all other things small potatoes, but even some gods ae collectors/tinkers and what about giving a god an ability that mimics an item and takes the slot, that way he doesn't have pointless gloves of dex. +6 just a natural agility that even other gods envy.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm just putting out a small bit of info on my god, he is not stupid or a maniac so he will play nice with other gods, even if they are opposed in nature. The very idea that all of the gods are meeting means that they all have some form of common goal in mind and, I believe, have come together to do something that none of them can do on there own. This way of thinking will make gods, like Duretep a CN god which does have worshippers among the aberrations and Sirion a LN god who hates aberrations, to get along.

again just an opinoin, don't want to cause any problems


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## Sunking (Feb 9, 2010)

im guesing that the magic items must be non-epic and non-artifacs then so that we dont se a Keen, Vopal, Ghost touch, Throwing, Returning, Distance, + ALL the energi bursts Greataxe +666 

What about the set number of things that dosent fall into catergori, how many?

And if its a 6 armed god of war who would like 6 magic weapons to wield s/he could use the other catergori options to reach 6 weapons?

Maby one artifact Homemade or chosen becaus it just the one artifact for that religion/god
---
as for co-DM first of im honured that u ask but before i can answer i need to know what and how


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 9, 2010)

Hrrr, why don't we stick to the book guys? I mean, do you think we can do a better job than WOTC? Here is the entry on magic items and deities:

*Create Magic Items:* A deity of rank 1 or higher can create magic items related to its portfolio without any requisite item creation feat, provided that the deity possesses all other prerequisites for the item. The maximum item value a deity can create is a function of its divine rank (see the table below). The item’s cost and creation time remain unchanged, but the deity is free to undertake any activity when not laboring on the item (see Creating Magic Items in the _DUNGEON MASTER’S Guide_).

*Divine Rank:* 1-5, *Max market price:* 4,500
*Divine Rank:* 6-10, *Max market price:* 30,000
*Divine Rank:* 11-15, *Max market price:* 200,000 (any nonartifact)
*Divine Rank:* 16-20, *Max market price:* no maximum (including artifact)

For example, a demigod of fire could create a wand of burning hands without the Craft Wand feat, provided that the demigod knows the burning hands spell. If a deity has the item creation feat pertaining to the item it wishes to create, the cost (in gold and XP) and creation times are halved.

On SLA's and Domain powers:

*Spell-Like Abilities:* A deity can use any domain spell it can grant as a spell-like ability at will. The deity’s effective caster level for such abilities is 10 + the deity’s divine rank. The saving throw DC for such abilities is 10 + the spell level + the deity’s Charisma bonus (if any) + the deity’s divine rank.

There is a whole table on salient abilities. They are tied with ability scores and character levels. For example, the Divine Bard salient ability requires 20 levels of Bard, while Possess Mortal requires 29 CHA.

32 point buy and Epic Feats for upgrading will be insufficient to get half of the Salient abilities out there. Check out Zeus's stats for example:

*Abilities:* Str 51, Dex 30, Con 34, Int 28, Wis 28, Cha 28.

Nowhere in his [sblock=Feats]Feats: Alertness, Blind-Fight, Blindsight 5-ft. Radius, Cleave, Combat Reflexes, Divine Might, Dodge, Endurance, Energy Substitution (electricity), Expertise, Eyes in the Back of Your Head, Great Cleave, Great Fortitude, Hold the Line, Improved Bull Rush, Improved Critical (longspear), Improved Disarm, Improved Grapple, Improved Initiative, Improved Sunder, Improved Trip, Improved Unarmed Strike, Knock-Down, Leadership, Mobility, Power Attack, Power Critical (shortspear), Sacred Spell, Spring Attack, Sunder, Superior Expertise, Weapon Focus (shortspear), Weapon Specialization (shortspear), Whirlwind Attack.[/sblock] do we see stat gaining feats. We do see Epic Feats however, and i think that the Epic Level Handbook will need to be allowed. (HM i can provide that too)

Epic spellcasting - never got to figure it out. Some help here? Is it not up to the DM after all, to allow or disallow certain effects? For example, even with a 200 roll in Spellcraft, if i want to _set the world on fire_ i should not be able to succeed.


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

To be honest with you Myth I think you're getting a bit more complicated than HM really can get with his limited access to source materials... I have the same problem... I have some sources like the ELH and what such... however I just think you adding more rules than really NEED to be used on a heavily RP based God(dess) game... mind you this is my personal opinion....


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 9, 2010)

Hmm i can see your point about it being heavy RP. However, this is exactly why we need to adhere to the rulebooks as far as character creation is concerned. If everyone has a different idea of what a god can or can't do it will be a mess. Also, i provided the book on the previous page, in case you missed it.


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## Sunking (Feb 9, 2010)

For the magic items I personal wasent thinking about portfolio items but all the other things, mabey the god of chaos and fire would like a ring of proctektion +5, and so on (i were thinking that the portfolio creation thing was natural, my bad)

and for the bard just take 20 lvls! and for the cha with 18 to start 40 lvls (10 stats bonus) and one epic feat you got cha 29 and thats before racial bonuses, but i se your point mabye it should be more along the line of 50-60 points but thats just so much

as for epic spellcasting: yes evry thing is ip to the DM but something are just so broken to start with that its just better writing it off.

Not going into the rule mecanic of the thing deeply but does the non-casterclasses have anything epic scaling the same way:
My opineon NO
the casters still have epic metamagic and the spell slot option about 9 lvl (for meta enchanced spells off 9 lvl and below) it should be more the adequit.

And as Myth says it important that we agre on the rules before the game, i dont think there will be great need off it but if it happens its best that we are on the same page when the show down (if ever) comes, personaly all the numbers and letter (read stats and abilitys) are ther to give os a better idea about the charekters so we can roleplay not so we know who hit the hardest with its axe (althoug for some this would be wery ingame for som carekters to wanna know)


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

How many points for the point buy are you suggesting we have Myth? for God Creation my vote would be for 60-85 maybe? I think that would be a good number with a max base in any one score of what?.... 22?.... 24? This would be BEFORE any item, racial, or level increases... Any suggestions?

By my calculations at stat of base 24 would cost 40 buy points if I got the progression of the point buy system correct in my head... I'm pretty sure if we go 60-85 points for the buy 24 is a good base max...


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## Sunking (Feb 9, 2010)

Stat=point price

8=0, 9=1, 10= 2, 11=3, 12=4, 13=5, 14=6, 15=8, 16=10, 17=13, 18=16, 19=20, 20=24, 21=29, 22=34, 23=40, 24=46, 25=54, 26=62, 27=71, 28=80
im doing some number crounching and comming back with a suggestion later, my thoughts right now are maby 80 points buy, standart lvl raise and epic feats + 5 free stat raises per Divine rank, this might do it but ill do som math and return.

---
using the point buy and the 5*divine rang stat raise zeus can be made with 31 points

70 HD gives 70 lvl. stat raises and Divine Rank 19 gives 95 = 112 total raises

Str = 14 (6P) +8 size large +29 raises = 51 Str
Dex= 13 (5P) + 17 raises = 30 Dex
Con= 13 (5P) + 21 raises = 34 con
Int= 13 (5P) +15 raises = 28 Int
Wis= 13 (5P) +15 raises = 28 Wis
Cha= 13 (5P) +15 raises = 28 Cha
Total = (31P) (112 raises) = Zeuses stats

now I have only done zeus but it would seems this might be the way to go (32 points plus Divine rank X5 free stat raises)


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 9, 2010)

I don't want to step on anyone's toes, but I also think you are complicating things beyond the scopes of the game. I think we should get a simplyfied god character. Perhaps not as powerful. Think that it will only be our characters in this little world. The more simple, the more even the characters will turn out.
Crazymonkey has come up with a nice and simple way to make gods, I'll copy it here, since I think is way simplier and allows lots of favor.

Ability Scores

25 Point Buy (see page 169 of the Dungeon Master's Guide).

20 Hit Dice of Outsider

This provides the character with:

160 hit points (+Con mod x 20)

+20 BAB

+12 Base saves

184 + (Int bonus x 23) skill points (max ranks 23 for class skills, 11 1/2 for cross-class skills)

10 Class Skills of the player's choice

7 Feats

5 Level Based Ability Score increases (+1 at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 HD)

Darkvision

Proficiency with all Simple and Martial weapons

20 (1 per HD) Special Traits

Special Traits

These can be any special ability possessed by a monster in the SRD (though not class features). Run special traits by the GM before taking it, just in case.

Notes on specific abilities follow.

Ability Score Increases - Each time this special trait is taken the character may add +2 to any ability score. Note that the Monstrous Size trait can affect ability scores as well. Each size category larger than Medium gives the character a cumulative +4 to Str, -2 to Dex, and +2 to Con. Each size category smaller than Medium gives the character a cumulative -2 to Str and +2 to Dex. So, a Huge character has a +8 to Str, -4 to Dex, and +4 to Con. A Tiny character has a -4 to Str and a +4 to Dex.

Monstrous Size - All characters start at Medium size and may take Monstrous Size to increase or decrease their size by one stage. This special trait can be taken more than once to advance to larger or smaller sizes. For example, in order for a character to be Huge, they would need to take the Monstrous Size trait twice.

Spell-Like Abilities - Characters can take any spell from the SRD as a spell-like ability, with certain limitations. A 0-3rd level spell can be taken as an at-will spell like ability. A 4th-7th level spell can be taken as a 3/day spell like ability. An 8th or 9th level spell can be taken as a 1/day spell like ability. Spells with an XP cost or material or focus component cost higher than 1 gp can be taken but take up one special trait slot per 1000 XP or 1000 gp of their cost. For example, wish would take up five special trait slots. All such expensive spells, regardless of level, can only be used 1/day. Caster Level for spell-like abilities is 20. Save DC is 10 + Spell level + Charisma mod.

Subtypes - Any subtype can be taken as a special trait, but the character is limited to two alignment subtypes (Good or Evil + Lawful or Chaotic), one element subtype (Earth, Air, Fire, Water, or Cold) and one species subtype (Angel, Archon, Baatezu, Eladrin, Goblinoid, Guardinal, Reptillian, Tanar'ri, or any of the standard races [Elf, Dwarf, Orc, etc]) and one other subtype (anything not listed above, such as Aquatic, Incorporeal, Psionic, or Shapechanger). Note that the Extraplanar and Native subtypes cannot be taken because they depend on where the character is, not what the character is. The Swarm subtype can be taken (the character thus being a sentient collective of creatures) but the character must also take the Monstrous Size special trait at least twice (to become Tiny or smaller). Note that a character with an alignment subtype can bypass damage reduction with its attacks as if wielding a weapon of the same subtype (for example, a character with the Good subtype can bypass damage reduction as if it were wielding a good aligned weapon).

Monstrous Form - All characters start as a basic humanoid figure. With one species trait, the character's native form can be that of any creature type (Magical Beast, Dragon, Aberration, etc). Note that the character must spend additional special traits to gain abilities inherent to the form chosen (for example, choosing a dragon shape does not confer flight until the character takes that special trait as well).

Natural Attacks - The character can choose any sort of natural attack, claws, bite, gore, slam, etc. Damage is dependent on size (see page 296 of the Monster Manual).

Movement Modes - Character base land speed is 60 feet (though this will vary based on size if the Monstrous Size trait is taken). Special Traits can be spent on other movement modes, such as flying, climbing, swimming, or burrowing. Base speed for flight is double base land speed with maneuverability based on size (Medium = Average, Large = Poor, Huge or larger = Clumsy, Small = Good, Tiny or smaller = Perfect). Maneuverability can be improved by spending another special trait. Base climb speed is 20 feet. Base swim speed is 20 feet. Base burrow speed is 5 feet. Any movement mode speed can be increased by increments of 20 feet per special trait.

Divine Rank

Every character starts with a Divine Rank of 0. This provides the following traits.

Divine Bonus to AC equal to Divine Rank.

Natural Armor Bonus to AC equal to 13 + Divine Rank.

Divine Bonus to attack rolls equal to Divine Rank.

Divine bonus to saving throws equal to Divine Rank.

Divine bonus to skill checks, ability checks, caster level checks, turning checks and other sorts of checks equal to Divine Rank.

Immunity to Transmutation (including polymorph and petrification, though the deities own abilities used on itself work normally), Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Mind-Affecting Effects.

Damage Reduction 10/Epic.

Fire Resistance 5 + Divine Rank.

Spell Resistance 32 + Divine Rank.

Immortality (the character does not age)

Domains and Spell-Like Abilities - Each character can choose three cleric domains. The deity can use all of the spells in those domains as at will spell like abilities with a Save DC of 10 + the level of the spell + the character's Charisma mod + Divine Rank. The character's caster level is 10 + Divine Rank.

Grant Spells - Though characters start with no worshippers, once they acquire them, the character can grant spells to clerics and rangers who worship them. A character with levels in Paladin, Druid and prestige classes that cast divine spells can grant spells to worshippers of those types as well.

Portfolio - The character does not gain any special abilities related to its porfolio yet, but choose one aspect of existence that the character favors.

Character Level 1

Finally, the character has one level in a regular character class. The character recieves a feat for 21st level, skill points as a multi-class character, maximum hit points for the class's hit die, and the class features of the class's 1st level. However, BAB and Base saves are handled as an Epic level character (+0 Epic bonus to saves, +1 Epic bonus to attack rolls).

Note that this 1st character level may be a Prestige Class level if the character qualifies for it via its Outsider HD and abilities.

Note that characters are considered Epic level and may take epic level feats (assuming they qualify for them).


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 9, 2010)

Sounds good Sunking, i'll be waiting on that writeup. Bonus stats per divine rank really does the trick IMO. On item creation, there are some SDAs that cover those as well:

[sblock=Create Object]The deity can create simple objects out of nothing.*

Prerequisites:* Divine rank 6, Int 29.*

Benefit: *As a full-round action, the deity can create one or more simple, nonmagical objects with a total weight of up to 50 pounds per divine rank, or with a total volume of 10 cubic feet per rank. If the deity uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, double the volume and weight the deity can create. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, triple the volume and weight the deity can create there.*

Notes: *For purposes of this ability, a simple object can have no moving parts more complex than a door hinge and must be composed of a single material. The material can be no more valuable than iron (1 sp per pound). The deity could create a length of rope, a leather sack, a wooden spoon, or an iron pot. The deity could create a knife blade, but not a knife with a wooden handle.
Once created, the objects are permanent and nonmagical. If the deity has the appropriate Craft skill, the deity can make a Craft check when creating the item to make it a masterwork item.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, creation.[/sblock]
[sblock=Create Greater Object]
The deity can create complex objects out of nothing.*

Prerequisites:* Divine rank 11, Int 29, Create Object salient divine ability.
*
Benefit: *As a full-round action, the deity can create objects weighing up to 100 pounds per divine rank, or with a volume of 20 cubic feet per rank. If the deity uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, double the volume and weight the deity can create. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, triple the volume and weight the deity can create there.
*
Notes:* This ability works like the Create Object ability, except as noted below. A deity can use this ability to create any kind of nonmagical object.
*
Rest:* The deity must convert a considerable amount of its own energy into the object, which can leave the deity impaired. The deity can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the deity must rest for 10 minutes. If the deity is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, it can create a 200 gp item without resting. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, it can create a 300 gp item there without having to rest.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, creation.[/sblock]

[sblock=Divine Creation]The deity can create creatures or magic items out of nothing.*

Prerequisites:* Divine rank 16, Int 29, Create Object salient divine ability, Create Greater Object salient divine ability.
*
Benefit: *As a full-round action, the deity can create mortal creatures or magic items whose total weight is up to 100 pounds per divine rank, or with a total volume of 20 cubic feet per rank. If the deity uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, double the volume and weight the deity can create. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, triple the volume and weight the deity can create there.
*
Notes:* This ability works like the Create Greater Object ability, except as noted below. A deity can use this ability to create any kind of creature that does not have a divine rank. The deity can create a creature with class levels, but never with more class levels than the deity has itself or the deity’s divine rank, whichever is lower.
*
Rest:* The deity must convert a considerable amount of its own energy into the object, which can leave the deity impaired. The deity can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the deity must rest for 10 minutes. If the deity is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, it can create a 200 gp item without resting. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, it can create a 300 gp item there without having to rest.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, creation, supreme.[/sblock]

[sblock=Craft Artifact]The deity can make magic items that exceed mortal limits.*

Prerequisites:* Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Forge Ring, Scribe Scroll.
*
Benefit:* The deity can craft magic arms and armor, staffs, wands, wondrous items, rings, and scrolls that exceed the normal limits for such items (as stated in the DUNGEONMASTER’s Guide). For instance, the deity could create a magic sword with an enhancement bonus higher than +5, a staff that allows the use of spells of higher than 9th level, a cloak of Charisma with an enhancement bonus higher than +6, and so on. More information on such items can be found in the Epic Level Handbook.
*
Notes:* This ability works like the Create Object ability, except as noted below. A deity can use this ability to create any kind of nonmagical object.
*
Rest:* The deity must convert a considerable amount of its own energy into the object, which can leave the deity impaired. The deity can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the deity must rest for 10 minutes. If the deity is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, it can create a 200 gp item without resting. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, it can create a 300 gp item there without having to rest.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, knowledge, magic. [/sblock]


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 9, 2010)

I have to say that I have read through all of the ideas that are being put forward and I have to put my backing behind Voda's. It's simple enough that everyone will have a nice balance but also gives people to be able to make they're characters unique.

On my item distribution idea. Yes, in theory some one could be a six armed god of war but I looked over all of the gods and no one (well no one yet) has gone and doen this. I was sort of hoping for a sort of honour system to not take it out of hand. This honour system was also what I was planning on for enhancement because a god(dess) weapon should be amazing. Maybe use the Kensai system of enhancment there by capping it at +10. As for the amount of what to give out that is not my call, because I am not the DM. It's up to you whether you keep it or not and it won't cause me problems either way, I just believe that it is a simple way of item distribution.


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm also liking VV's posting there of CM's God(dess) creation thingie for lack of a better word.... it's smooth... it's pretty and it's effective and will make for well rounded powerful gods and goddess


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2010)

Hey everyone just checking in to my threads before I give my connection over to the gf so she can do here homework. I am going to read Deities and Demi gods and copy paste VV's post to compare it seems we need some rules set in stone so everyone will be on the same page. (Even though set in stone is not the greatess thing). 

So keep tossing out ideals or voting for ones you like already suggested and why I will be back tonight to do my job as DM  and we will get this snowball rolling.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 9, 2010)

Sunking said:


> as for co-DM first of im honured that u ask but before i can answer i need to know what and how




oh it just ups your responsiblity but you keep the same pay grade, 

Your main responsibilty during character creation will be to answer questions posted by players both current and any new who show up to play. So once I have some concrete rules I should be able to do that too.

People will be able to have you make a ruling on anything they ask and know it will stick, and since we are in like way different time zones that would be good that one of us will be around almost all the time.

Should you accept this I will make you privy to center adventure details so again you may answer questions and render judgements.

Up for it?? 

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 9, 2010)

I haven't posted an idea (I'm still thinking) yet but want to chime in on the character creation thing.  I'll toss a third vote Voda Vosa's way.  That system is elegant, simple and still leaves room for growth.


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

hey VV how would meta magic feats work on the God(dess) spell like abilities? Would you have to take Quicken Spell Like Ability or Maximize Spell Like Ability and what such for those as we don't actually cast spells normally...


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 9, 2010)

Yes, at least for the spells in the domain and the ones you choose from special traits points, you have only quicken and maximize spell-like ability. But you can choose metamagic feats for the spells given to you by your class, although its usefulness would depend on how many class level are we entitled to have, and how soon (and if) our characters would gain new levels.


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

So what you're saying is.... we have no class levels right now but when(or if) we gain additional levels they can be class levels and that's what I'd use meta magic feats for? 

Otherwise I have to choose quicken or empower spell like ability for those spells I took with special trait points?...


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 9, 2010)

You have 1 class level (probably the class of your main followers. It could be more than one, depending on HM's choice) but yes, that's the idea. 
And yes to the metamagic feats, you'll have to take meta spell like feats like those. One could come up with the others like making a spell like empower spell or widen spell etc.


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## Roman (Feb 9, 2010)

I must say I also like the simplified system from Crazymonkey that Voda Vosa posted, though I also like the Deities & Demogods system - both seem good. 

However, I think 25 point point buy is too little. This is merely standard point buy and would need to be significantly higher to even remotely simulate godling power (I generally favor rolling both as a DM/GM and as a player, but I can see why that would be problematic online). I would say at an absolute minimum, the 32 point point buy (high powered for normal characters) would be appropriate.


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

Well.. here's my attempt VV... let me know what you think.....

[sblock=Lavaria Goddess of Fire and Chaos]Lavaria Goddess of Fire and Chaos
Medium Sized Outsider 20/Sor 1
Divne Rank 0
Domains: Fire, Choas, Evil

Special Trait Points Spent: 20 


Str: 10	+0				[2 Points]
Dex: 20	+5	(+6 Divine)		[6 Points]
Con: 18	+4	(+6 Divine)		[4 Points]
Int: 14	+2	(+2 Divine)		[4 Points]
Wis: 18	+4	(+1 Level, +6 Divine)	[3 Points]
Cha: 38	+14	(+4 Level, +20 Divine) 	[6 Points]

HP: 248 / 248
AC: 28 [10 +5 Dex, +13 Natural]
BAB: +21

Fort: 16 [12 Base, +4 Con]
Refl: 17 [12 Base, +5 Dex]
Will: 16 [12 Base, +4 Wis]

Special Qualities: Fire Subtype, Choas Subtype, Evil Subtype, Flight (120 ft Perfect Mauv.), Flaming Body (Su, From Balor), telepathy 100 ft. (From Hezrou), Fast Healing 15 (from Hydra), Blindsense 60 ft (From Dragons), Breath Weapon (From Great Wyrm Red Dragon: 24d10, 70 ft cone), Immunity to Transmutation (including polymorph and petrification, though the deities own abilities used on itself work normally), Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Mind-Affecting Effects. DR 10/Epic, SR 32, Immortality

Spell Like Abilities (Caster Level 21): Detect Magic at-will, Scorching Ray (DC 26) at-will, Summon Monster III (Small Fire Elemental) at-will, True Seeing 3/day, Flamestrike (DC 29) 3/day, Geas/Quest (No Save) 3/day, Greater Teleport 3/day, Fire Storm (DC 32) 1/day, Summon Monster IX (Elder Fire Elemental) 1/day

Skills: (230 Total Skill Points) [Class Skills: Bluff, Concentration, Diplomacy, Knowledge [Arcana], Knowledge [The Planes], Search, Sense Motive, Spellcraft, Spot, Use Magic Device]

Bluff 			+37 [23 Ranks, +14 Cha]
Concentration 		+27 [23 Ranks, +4 Con]
Diplomacy 		+37 [23 Ranks, +14 Cha]
Knowledge [Arcana]	+25 [23 Ranks, +2 Int]
Knowledge [The Planes]	+25 [23 Ranks, +2 Int]
Search			+25 [23 Ranks, +2 Int]
Sense Motive		+27 [23 Ranks, +4 Wis]
Spellcraft		+25 [23 Ranks, +2 Int]
Spot			+27 [23 Ranks, +4 Wis]
Use Magic Device	+37 [23 Ranks, +14 Cha]

Feats: 

Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Flamestrike)
Empower Spell-Like Ability (Firestorm)
Hover
Quicken Spell-Like Ability (Scorching Ray)
Empower Spell-LIke Ability (Scorching Ray) 
Spell Penetration
Greater Spell Penetration
Sorcerer 1: Improved Familiar (Fire Elemental)

Familair: Fire Elemental [Small] (Jorgen, Prince of the Dancing Flame)
"HD": 21
HP: 124 / 124
BAB: +21
Attacks: Slam 1d4
Saves: Fort: +12, Refl: +13, Will: +12
Special Qualities: Alertness, Improved Evasion, Share Spells, Empathic Link, Deliver Touch Spells, Speak with Mistress, Speak with Elementals, SR 26, Scry on Familiar, Familiar Spell [Firestorm Spell-Like] (Epic)[/sblock]


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## Rathan (Feb 9, 2010)

Some stats to me there seem a bit low.. like AC.... for a God(dess) that is.. and saves.. I can't even make the save for my own firestorm spell for example... I think some aspects of the rule set need to be upped a little... the two mentioned above being the most predominant that I can see thusfar... 

just some food for thought heh...


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 9, 2010)

I'm still sticking to the official source as the better solution IMO. I do value RPing more than anything else, so I'll go with either system, but I consider the rulebook created specifically for this purpose superior to any one man's home creation.

On maximization, there is a passage there that says that a deity never has needs for maximize spell as he always gets the most beneficial die roll when making a check. Thus, a dietiy's spells are always maximized by default.


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

Well I do like the simple one and chapter 2 is well writin so I feel we will combine both with some homebrewed rules of my own for spice. Ok then let's get cooking:

First Questions:
1) VV how did crazymonkey come up with these numbers? hp-160 base skill points-184?
2) and a +20 BAB does that mean +20/+15/+10/+5??Also not all gods are warriors so I will be adding a HR here
3) it seems that the system let's you make a character with the race being Outsider and you add A Divine template(Immortal) to that to get ECL +20 and then pick your class, or am I off base?

Ok changes in bold add-ons to come:

Ability Scores* 35 Point Buy* (think that is what I used in Off to War)
20 Hit Dice of Outsider

This provides the character with:
160 hit points (+Con mod x 20)
+20 BAB* (may add 5 and lose one feat or subtract 5 an add an additional feat) note: 4 attacks max +25/+20/+15/+10*
+12 Base saves
184 + (Int bonus x 23) skill points (max ranks 23 for class skills, 11 1/2 for cross-class skills)
10 Class Skills of the player's choice
7 Feats
5 Level Based Ability Score increases (+1 at 4, 8, 12, 16, and 20 HD)
20 (1 per HD) Special Traits

Special Traits
These can be any special ability possessed by a monster in the SRD (though not class features). Run special traits by the GM before taking it, just in case.

Notes on specific abilities follow.
Ability Score Increases - Each time this special trait is taken the character may add +2 to any ability score. Note that the Monstrous Size trait can affect ability scores as well. Each size category larger than Medium gives the character a cumulative +4 to Str, -2 to Dex, and +2 to Con. Each size category smaller than Medium gives the character a cumulative -2 to Str and +2 to Dex. So, a Huge character has a +8 to Str, -4 to Dex, and +4 to Con. A Tiny character has a -4 to Str and a +4 to Dex.

Monstrous Size - All characters start at Medium size and may take Monstrous Size to increase or decrease their size by one stage. This special trait can be taken more than once to advance to larger or smaller sizes. For example, in order for a character to be Huge, they would need to take the Monstrous Size trait twice.

Spell-Like Abilities - Characters can take any spell from the SRD as a spell-like ability, with certain limitations. A 0-3rd level spell can be taken as an at-will spell like ability. A 4th-7th level spell can be taken as a 3/day spell like ability. An 8th or 9th level spell can be taken as a 1/day spell like ability. Spells with an XP cost or material or focus component cost higher than 1 gp can be taken but take up one special trait slot per 1000 XP or 1000 gp of their cost. For example, wish would take up five special trait slots. All such expensive spells, regardless of level, can only be used 1/day. Caster Level for spell-like abilities is 20. Save DC is 10 + Spell level + Charisma mod.

Subtypes - Any subtype can be taken as a special trait, but the character is limited to two alignment subtypes (Good or Evil + Lawful or Chaotic), one element subtype (Earth, Air, Fire, Water, or Cold) and one species subtype (Angel, Archon, Baatezu, Eladrin, Goblinoid, Guardinal, Reptillian, Tanar'ri, or any of the standard races [Elf, Dwarf, Orc, etc]) and one other subtype (anything not listed above, such as Aquatic, Incorporeal, Psionic, or Shapechanger). Note that the Extraplanar and Native subtypes cannot be taken because they depend on where the character is, not what the character is. The Swarm subtype can be taken (the character thus being a sentient collective of creatures) but the character must also take the Monstrous Size special trait at least twice (to become Tiny or smaller). Note that a character with an alignment subtype can bypass damage reduction with its attacks as if wielding a weapon of the same subtype (for example, a character with the Good subtype can bypass damage reduction as if it were wielding a good aligned weapon).

Monstrous Form - All characters start as a basic humanoid figure. With one species trait, the character's native form can be that of any creature type (Magical Beast, Dragon, Aberration, etc). Note that the character must spend additional special traits to gain abilities inherent to the form chosen (for example, choosing a dragon shape does not confer flight until the character takes that special trait as well).

Natural Attacks - The character can choose any sort of natural attack, claws, bite, gore, slam, etc. Damage is dependent on size (see page 296 of the Monster Manual).

Movement Modes - Character base land speed is 60 feet (though this will vary based on size if the Monstrous Size trait is taken). Special Traits can be spent on other movement modes, such as flying, climbing, swimming, or burrowing. Base speed for flight is double base land speed with maneuverability based on size (Medium = Average, Large = Poor, Huge or larger = Clumsy, Small = Good, Tiny or smaller = Perfect). Maneuverability can be improved by spending another special trait. Base climb speed is 20 feet. Base swim speed is 20 feet. Base burrow speed is 5 feet. Any movement mode speed can be increased by increments of 20 feet per special trait.

*Divinity Template:*

Divine Rank
Every character starts with a Divine Rank of 0. This provides the following traits.

Divine Bonus to AC equal to Divine Rank.
Natural Armor Bonus to AC equal to 13 + Divine Rank.
*Deflection Bonus to AC equal to CHA modifier.*
Divine Bonus to attack rolls equal to Divine Rank.
Divine bonus to saving throws equal to Divine Rank.
Divine bonus to skill checks, ability checks, caster level checks, turning checks and other sorts of checks equal to Divine Rank.
Immunity to Transmutation (including polymorph and petrification, though the deities own abilities used on itself work normally), Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Mind-Affecting Effects.

Damage Reduction = *35 + Divine Rank/ +4*
*Resistance to Energy(All) 2 + Divine Rank*.
Spell Resistance 32 + Divine Rank.
Immortality (the character does not age)
Domains and Spell-Like Abilities - Each character can choose three cleric domains. The deity can use all of the spells in those domains as at will spell like abilities with a Save DC of 10 + the level of the spell + the character's Charisma mod + Divine Rank. The character's caster level is 10 + Divine Rank.
Portfolio - The character does not gain any special abilities related to its porfolio yet, but choose one aspect of existence that the character favors.

Character Level 1
Finally, the character has one level in a regular character class. The character recieves a feat for 21st level, skill points as a multi-class character, maximum hit points for the class's hit die, and the class features of the class's 1st level. However, BAB and Base saves are handled as an Epic level character (+0 Epic bonus to saves, +1 Epic bonus to attack rolls).

Note that this 1st character level may be a Prestige Class level if the character qualifies for it via its Outsider HD and abilities.
Note that characters are considered Epic level and may take epic level feats (assuming they qualify for them).

*What it looks like to me is by making everyone Divine Rank 0 he made the characters easier to make as you don't get alot of abilities till Divine Rank 1: more immunities, Salient Divine abilities, Domain Powers, Senses, Divine Aura*

*Needless to say your characters will be advancing as the game progresses both in character lvl and Divine Ranks so we will be adding all that as we go. Really the only difference in the systems is the special traits option which I see as a character molder making the outwordly appearence more than anything else.*

*VV please thank crazymonkey for me*

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

Rathan said:


> Some stats to me there seem a bit low.. like AC.... for a God(dess) that is.. and saves.. I can't even make the save for my own firestorm spell for example... I think some aspects of the rule set need to be upped a little... the two mentioned above being the most predominant that I can see thusfar...
> 
> just some food for thought heh...




Great character by the way makes me think I should start an RG so we can have them where we can find them for changes as we twik these character gene rules.

BRB and I'll edit an RG link in 

EDIT: http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/271814-pantheon-grey-mist.html

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 10, 2010)

HM... one last thing I wanted to mention... can we take the Fire Resistance out of the lineup please?... perhaps replace it with something else as it really nerfs my characters concept a bit as she's a fire being and uses fire attacks nearly exclusively... really it just doesn't seem feasible that EVERY godling being would have immunity to fire....

EDIT: Also can I drop my BAB by 10 and gain two feats or can you only do this once?

EDIT2: Also... I still feel the Base Saves need to be raised JUST a bit if possible... I mean as I said before I FRY myself with my own Firestorm... without rolling a nat 20 I can't save against my own spell for example heh

EDIT3: ummm HM?... what's the DR type we all have?.. is it still Epic? I don't understand the +4 you have there now...


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

I was thinking of doing that and it looks like crazymonkey dropped it from 20 + DR to 5 I'm not sure that it is fair for anyone that they have this ability and at Divine Rank 1 they are immune to electricity, cold, and acid. 

Is your character immune to fire??? It seems she should be I see her able to take a swim in a lava pool.

I think to make it fair all around deities should have a resistance based on there DR so I will edit the above to read:

Resistance to energy(all) 2 + Divine Rank

And get rid of those immunities ..What do you think??

HM

EDIT: You may only do this once. And should I state the feat should be non epic??

EDIT2:Stilll wish I knew how he came up with these neumbers let me look at my DD pdf it... it says the outsider HD and character level determine base saves so that would be base is +20 (is that to high?) then add your class save base
need some help with this one


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## Rathan (Feb 10, 2010)

She has the Fire Subtype making her immune to fire but has a vulnerability to Ice... so yes.. she swims in lava like I nice heated pool heh....

Perhaps give us a list of Elements we can be resistant to.... we pick one at character creation and get Resistance 10 + Divine RankX2 to picked element?

Just throwing that out there...


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## Roman (Feb 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Well I do like the simple one and chapter 2 is well writin so I feel we will combine both with some homebrewed rules of my own for spice. Ok then let's get cooking:
> 
> First Questions:
> 1) VV how did crazymonkey come up with these numbers? hp-160  base skill points-184?
> ...




I can answer those:

1) The base skill points and hit points are both derived from outsider hit dice. Outsiders get 8 skill points per hit die (4 x 8 at 1st level) not counting the multiples of the intelligence bonus, so it works out to 184 + 23 x Intelligence bonus at 20 outsider hit dice. The same applies to hit points - outsiders get d8 hit points per level + Constitution bonus. Even 0 Divine Rank godlings get maximum hit points per level, though, so that amounts to 160 hit points plus 20 x Constitution bonus at 20 HD. 

2) Again, the BAB is derived from outsider hit dice - your house-rule sounds fine though. 

3) You are basically correct.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 10, 2010)

Now I think that fire resitance should stay so we have no reason to use our abilities against one another. I am also in the same oat because my characters abilities are all mind effecting abilities, something that gods are not effected by. The immunities make it more likely that gods will have they're mortal repersentatives work it out rather than they themselves leading to crusades, sabotage, and attacks in all other manners. and isn't that what we all want out of life, someone to do our bidding.


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

Roman said:


> 3) You are basically correct.




Thanks Roman I like being correct  even if it is basicly. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

@ Rathman it means +4 weapon or better to bypass DR

@FM haven't gotten into that but I did gloss over the rules alittle on worshippers, I'm thinking this could be a reason to "build" a new world since you start with very few followers a place for more to be born. Also in The Grey Mist it is RP only everyone is eccentilay[sp?] immune to everything. Though what i have planned you should be fighting gods just godlike monsters 

@Roman Hope you join us in this endeavor.

HM


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 10, 2010)

Lots of things to reply to: 



> Well.. here's my attempt VV... let me know what you think.....
> 
> Some stats to me there seem a bit low.. like AC.... for a God(dess) that is.. and saves.. I can't even make the save for my own firestorm spell for example... I think some aspects of the rule set need to be upped a little... the two mentioned above being the most predominant that I can see thusfar...
> 
> just some food for thought heh...



I think it's cool! Although remember to add your charisma modifier to AC and Saves. I think I didn't paste that part when I copied the rules. 
Special abilities are to be DM approved, as for example, the fast regeneration, instead of 15 HM could allow just 5 per special trait point, and you'll have to spend 3 points to get the 15.
Also, list your domain spells
The DC for spell like abilities is 10+ Level of the spell+CHA mod+ Divinity ranks+Feat. I'll suggest ability focus on some of your abilities, to raise the DC. Note that caster level for spell like abilities granted by special traits and for spells from the domain is 10+ divinity rank
Also on Special traits. Why does your fire elemental god has drain energy and level drain and all that?  
Remember to not override your spell like abilities with your at will spells from your domain lists. 



> First Questions:
> 1) VV how did crazymonkey come up with these numbers? hp-160 base skill points-184?
> 2) and a +20 BAB does that mean +20/+15/+10/+5??Also not all gods are warriors so I will be adding a HR here
> 3) it seems that the system let's you make a character with the race being Outsider and you add A Divine template(Immortal) to that to get ECL +20 and then pick your class, or am I off base?




1) Drawn from the 20 levels in outsider
2) Yes, it means that, since the class levels at 20 are all the same, and adding a 1 level of epic character class adds +0 to BAB.
3) Yes at soe extent, as Rathan did with his character, he gave it Fire, Evil and Chaotic subtypes, which are the ones that really count. 

Also your modifications seems cool, and as I said overe there, the bonus to AC was ment, but I forgot to add it.  




> HM... one last thing I wanted to mention... can we take the Fire Resistance out of the lineup please?




As everything, I think that it should not be taken out of the game if the role of the god is, for example, a god of water, or a god of stone. 
Of course my plant god won't have nothing like fire resistance. As far as its applicable and reasonable for the flavour, I think it should not be excluded. 
If you meant the 5 fire resistance, it should be changed depending on the gods. your god could have a 5 resist to magic, mine to electricity, etc.


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## Rathan (Feb 10, 2010)

I know 3.0 used the DR 10/+4.. but 3.5 used more things like DR 10/Evil.... or DR 15/Magic and Good meaing you need a magic weapon with the ability to do good damage to overcome DR.... are you going back to 3.0 means for DR?.... I don't mind either way.. just wanna know for sure is all....


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## Roman (Feb 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> @Roman Hope you join us in this endeavor.




Sure, I would love to participate in world creation from the perspective of a godling.  

I do have to think of a good concept though - there are some nice ones from the others.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> @FM haven't gotten into that but I did gloss over the rules alittle on worshippers, I'm thinking this could be a reason to "build" a new world since you start with very few followers a place for more to be born. Also in The Grey Mist it is RP only everyone is eccentilay[sp?] immune to everything. Though what i have planned you should be fighting gods just godlike monsters
> HM



I was merely playing devils advocate 

Now then, I have been thinking long and hard on my god and I do believe that he should be Lawful Neutral or True Neutral rather than Chaotic Neutral, This is because he his madness brings him clarity and a methodical approach to what he does. He is no gibbering, cackling mad man but an intense, unapproachable creature of cold and uncaring logic. At least that is how I see the more terrifying form of madness to be something that is unreasoning, uncaring, and is already two steps ahead of any plan you could make.

This would only change his alignment though and little else would change. His followers would still be the same mad men and he still sits on his throne in his ruined library.

I leave the algnment choice to you because out of those two they mean little difference to me.


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Special abilities are to be DM approved, as for example, the fast regeneration, instead of 15 HM could allow just 5 per special trait point, and you'll have to spend 3 points to get the 15. [/qoute]
> 
> That does seem fair as some combat oriented gods will take more amd like a god of magic less. So i will put that in under the notes section.
> 
> ...


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> Now then, I have been thinking long and hard on my god and I do believe that he should be Lawful Neutral or True Neutral rather than Chaotic Neutral, This is because he his madness brings him clarity and a methodical approach to what he does. He is no gibbering, cackling mad man but an intense, unapproachable creature of cold and uncaring logic. At least that is how I see the more terrifying form of madness to be something that is unreasoning, uncaring, and is already two steps ahead of any plan you could make.
> 
> This would only change his alignment though and little else would change. His followers would still be the same mad men and he still sits on his throne in his ruined library.
> 
> I leave the algnment choice to you because out of those two they mean little difference to me.




Sounds good I like the LN aspect the methodical approach it is please start a character and post him in the RG and let me know what you think of the character gene rules (you know easy, hard? something missing?) darn I haven't posted anything on equipment but I will.

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 10, 2010)

Tossing out a woefully incomplete idea here...
An underworld goddess including darkness, fate, spiders, weaving.  I'll fill in details later.


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## Roman (Feb 10, 2010)

On another note, how should we deal with the Epic Level Handbook? As somebody (sorry - I forgot who!) has mentioned already in this thread, Epic spellcasting is just a horrible system. The rest of the Epic Level Handbook, such as the epic feats, is not as bad as the spellcasting, but still pretty bad overall (as much as I like the idea of epic levels, I really think they have blown it). Since we are starting from level 1 anyway (excluding the 20 outsider hit dice), wouldn't it be best just to ignore epic level feats altogether and only permit the core rulebooks as far as feats/spells/abilities go? (By necessity, we would probably still need to cap BAB and saves as they are in epic level handbook and replace them with epic saves in order to avoid grave imbalances.)


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## Roman (Feb 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Then Welcome aboard and have fun building your character.
> 
> HM




Thanks! 



> Sorry Rathan been so long since I used the DR rules that I only remember the old ones (and I used a houserule even for that) let me think on this hard with the new rules DR#/Magic is to weak and DR#/Epic to strong




Well, what they have done in 3.5 is not just changed the #/+X to #/Magic (or Epic, or whatever), but they also changed the amounts of DR. Hence DR 35/+4, for example, might become DR 15/Epic... it would become more difficult to overcome completely, but the amount of DR would decrease. Anyway, I too am fine with either the 3.0E or 3.5E method - both work.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 10, 2010)

On a side note HM: Are you still posting on Specters? I spend hours creating that rotten mummy and never get an IC reply from you.


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

@ GlassEye- totally awesome take your time i think this is going to b the long process

@ Roman Epic spellcasting is out, but the Epic Book (which I don't have) could be in so long as someone gives me the ideal on what all that does when we come to it

I think at the bottom of character gene it says that Epic saves are +0 and Epic BAB is +1 and you may take any Epic feat you "quailify" for, probably just the one feat you get at 21st lvl 

there are two rules in Deities &Demigods I like:
1)
Beyond character level 20th, deities’ attack and saving throw
bonuses increase at new rates. Deities gain a +1 epic attack
bonus at 21st level and every other level thereafter, meaning
that a deity with 40 class levels (on top of the base 20 outsider
Hit Dice) has an attack bonus of +40. No deity can have more
than four attacks derived strictly from its base attack bonus, so
a deity with an attack bonus of +40 gets additional attacks at
+35, +30, and +25.
Deities also gain a +1 bonus on saving throws at 22nd level
and every other level thereafter. A deity with 20 outsider Hit
Dice and 40 class levels has saving throws (Fortitude, Reflex,​and Will) of +32.
2)
Many skills provide synergy bonuses to other skills if you have
5 or more ranks in the skill. For example, you get a +2 synergy
bonus on Ride checks if you have 5 or more ranks in the
Handle Animal skill.
For every 20 extra ranks a deity has in a skill, the deity’s synergy
bonus from the skill (if any) increases by +2. For example, a deity
with 25 ranks in Handle Animal would receive a +4 synergy bonus
on Ride checks, and a deity with 45 ranks in Handle Animal​would receive a +6 synergy bonus on Ride checks

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 10, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> On a side note HM: Are you still posting on Specters? I spend hours creating that rotten mummy and never get an IC reply from you.




Not waiting on me waiting on the group to react to your post WD did but I think Voadam has been having RL problems and bedford is MIA 

I'll give it a bump.

HM


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## Roman (Feb 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> @ GlassEye- totally awesome take your time i think this is going to b the long process
> 
> @ Roman Epic spellcasting is out, but the Epic Book (which I don't have) could be in so long as someone gives me the ideal on what all that does when we come to it
> 
> I think at the bottom of character gene it says that Epic saves are +0 and Epic BAB is +1 and you may take any Epic feat you "quailify" for, probably just the one feat you get at 21st lvl




Fair enough - and yes it would be just one epic feat at level 21. 



> there are two rules in Deities &Demigods I like:
> 1)
> Beyond character level 20th, deities’ attack and saving throw
> bonuses increase at new rates. Deities gain a +1 epic attack
> ...





This is straight out of the epic level handbook. The justification they give for the unified saving throw and base attack bonus progressions is that if the normal progressions were allowed to continue, the spread between the saving throws and attacks of different classes would get too wide to provide unified challenges for the party. 

They are correct for normal characters, but it just occured to me that our situation is somewhat different and we could use it to our advantage. We all get 20 outsider levels, which gives us all the exact same progressions for saving throws and BAB. Hence, we could afford to have the normal class progressions for BAB and saving throws for 20 levels and switch to the epic progressions only thereafter (though the maximum number of attacks from high BAB would have to stay capped at 4) to achieve the same balance effect as was intended by the epic level handbook (the spreads 20 levels on would be the same as for normal characters entering epic levels and thereafter the switch to epic progressions could occur). This would also give people an incentive to also take some warrior classes, monks and other non-spellcasters and provide for differentiation and you wouldn't need to create houserules for exchanging feats to increase or decrease BAB from +20 to +25 or +15 - it would take care of itself by virtue of warrior classes getting a higher progression for the next 20 levels. 

On a slightly wilder note, we could do the same with feats. Essentially, if we did that we could say that the 20 HD of outsider levels would not count for epic purposes, so there would be a full 20 normal class levels to go through before they entered into effect. 



> 2)
> Many skills provide synergy bonuses to other skills if you have
> 5 or more ranks in the skill. For example, you get a +2 synergy
> bonus on Ride checks if you have 5 or more ranks in the
> ...




This seems reasonable to me.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 10, 2010)

I was asking since I casted a detection spell and was waiting to se what did the character found out. Also, planty dude posted in RG!


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## Rathan (Feb 10, 2010)

damn... I'm an idiot... I read the rules on Ability Score Increases as every time you SPEND a Specialty Point you get +2 to a stat..... which means I've overspent buy double my starting Specialty points.... *sighs* I'm going to have to completely remake Lavaria now as I've WAY overspent...

EDIT: Ok.. I think I fixed it... although her badass factor just went half way out the window LOL... ALOT less subtypes and spell likes heh


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## Sunking (Feb 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> oh it just ups your responsiblity but you keep the same pay grade,
> 
> Your main responsibilty during character creation will be to answer questions posted by players both current and any new who show up to play. So once I have some concrete rules I should be able to do that too.
> 
> ...




if it means knowing any of the plot before it happens no 
If it means rules ansvering and helping others ok
Ill give it a try but need the stone tablets before i can help policing 



Roman said:


> I must say I also like the simplified system from Crazymonkey that Voda Vosa posted, though I also like the Deities & Demogods system - both seem good.
> 
> However, I think 25 point point buy is too little. This is merely standard point buy and would need to be significantly higher to even remotely simulate godling power (I generally favor rolling both as a DM/GM and as a player, but I can see why that would be problematic online). I would say at an absolute minimum, the 32 point point buy (high powered for normal characters) would be appropriate.




After work yesterday i went home and attaked deties and demigods and found how the gods were made.....

wait for it...

25 points buy... jep only 25 points...

and the get their divine rank as bonus to all stats

im like VV´s but stil favor Deties and Demigods because its not a add on system but upgrading the core...



Myth and Legend said:


> I'm still sticking to the official source as the better solution IMO. I do value RPing more than anything else, so I'll go with either system, but I consider the rulebook created specifically for this purpose superior to any one man's home creation.
> 
> On maximization, there is a passage there that says that a deity never has needs for maximize spell as he always gets the most beneficial die roll when making a check. Thus, a dietiy's spells are always maximized by default.




For the maxemizing it depends of you god status lesser to greater, it aint before greater you get total maxemization on all dice rolls (why i also suggested we started Divine rank 6-10)



HolyMan said:


> @ GlassEye- totally awesome take your time i think this is going to b the long process
> 
> @ Roman Epic spellcasting is out, but the Epic Book (which I don't have) could be in so long as someone gives me the ideal on what all that does when we come to it
> 
> ...




those 2 are as Roman says som of the core epic rule

the rest is just epic feats wich are just greater feats, +1 to a stat, shoot a arrow at anything u can see (no range penealty), get a spell slot 1 lvl higer then the higest u have (for meta-magicing) and souch... and the som epic PRC wich just are mostly power and less flawor the most other PRC, my suggestion stay away from the epic PRC



----

I would realy like to have classes a bit more into the euation the 20 outsider + 1 class lvl. else it loks like we are just clones with difrent hoppyes

my suggestion would be
Deties and demigods
as HM 32p buy (mabey even 25 since the other gods are made for that but then agein we are hero gods )
30 HD buy  (the 20 outsider aint bad to take here but the wizard might deside that 30 wiz would be better, depending of concept(sirion realy need psion class since it core part of concept )and we might even se gods with only 2 att. per round instead of all warrior typs)... the whole 20 outsider is as i see mostly to 
allowed base classes + outsider and one PRC (max 3 picks from her)

and a divine rank of 6-10 give som powers, immunitys and souch but
off course just like all the gods of deties and demigods we get a bonus to all stats equal to Divine rank

this way if the day comes we desids to take on zeus (auch) we are made with same rules, and we dont need to find out if the buy special abilityes as VV sugested can be broken (at a glance it have the potientale to go broke quickly)

oh by the way all does divine immunitys and ressistance only apply to things of lesser divine rank then you  so 2 gods of equal rank could go blasting one and another just like any 2 normal charekters, and a non detiy charekter of even 20 lvls higher would stil be in a bad place agenst a god.

im in any way we go for me this is about the aspeckt of RPing gods who creat a world and try to play sims with it

its just whe we use D&D and there are rules that seems to work maeby we should try them.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 10, 2010)

> it loks like we are just clones with difrent hoppyes



Not at all. That'¡s what the special traits points are there for.


> he 20 outsider aint bad to take here but the wizard might deside that 30 wiz would be better



As noted, caster level takes in consideration 10+divinity ranks, so it's unimportant the amount of levels one has, and besides, the wizard will be able to cast his domain spells at will, and if he wants spells other than the domains, he can pick special spell like abilities. 


> a divine rank of 6-10 give som powers, immunitys and souch but
> off course just like all the gods of deties and demigods we get a bonus to all stats equal to Divine rank



Granted, but HM said we were going to progress in DR, so we are going to get them anyway.


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## GlassEye (Feb 10, 2010)

*Name:*  Ubariya, the Weaver Uncaring, the Mother of Unclaimed Souls
*Symbol:*  A spider dangling from a strand of web
*Home Plane:*  the Black Chasm:  the walls of the Black Chasm are a fractured black stone supporting strands of web that form intricate and sometimes beautiful patterns.  These webs exude a very faint, pearly luminescence that eternally evaporates in curling tendrils of mist and is the only source of light in the Black Chasm.  Spiders of all sizes scurry freely along the webs on unfathomable missions and still writhing creatures dangle from the strands in clusters.  The heart of the Black Chasm is an enormous and beautifully elaborate sphere of web where Ubariya weaves and lays her eggs.
*Portfolio:*  Death and rebirth, shadows, spiders, weaving.
*Worshipers:*  Spinners and weavers revere the Weaver Uncaring.  Mothers, midwives and women in general follow her in her (re)birth aspect and beseech her to delay acting as bringer of death for those they love.  Aranea follow her as do a sect of druids.
*Cleric Alignments:* LG, LN, LE, N
*Favored Weapon:* shortspear (represents a distaff)
[sblock=Ubariya, the Weaver Uncaring]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/sblock]
Ubariya is the goddes of death and rebirth though in a different fashion than the One and the Many as she is only concerned with creatures that have souls and not with the natural world.  Ubariya brings death to everyone when the weave of their life has been completed.  Those who follow a different god move on to whatever afterlife that god provides for them but Ubariya claims the souls of those who are not claimed by any other deity.  She is not a greedy god and the souls are wrapped and suspended from her webs where she feeds off their individuality.  Once the soul is drained of the mask of personality the husk fades and Ubariya lays an egg, a purified soul, in her nest.  When the time is right the egg will also fade and the soul will be reborn into the world.
*Clergy:
Missions:
Churches:
Avatar:*


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 10, 2010)

Hoookay, here i go:



> Special Traits
> These can be any special ability possessed by a monster in the SRD (though not class features). Run special traits by the GM before taking it, just in case.



Yeah about those, the one that immediately came to mind was: 

*Immunity to Magic (Ex)* A will-o’-wisp is immune to most spells or spell-like abilities that allow spell resistance, except magic missile and maze.

Now this is definitely the most broken ability one can get for 1 (one) Special Trait only! Notable mentions should also be:
*
Unearthly Grace (Su)* A nymph adds her Charisma modifier as a bonus on all her saving throws, and as a deflection bonus to her Armor Class.

That can be stacked with the Paladin's bonus to saving throws and the divine bonus to AC. Also one Special Trait only!

*Split (Ex)* Slashing and piercing weapons and electricity attacks deal no damage to an ochre jelly. Instead the creature splits into two identical jellies, each with half of the original’s current hit points (round down). A jelly with 10 hit points or less cannot be further split and dies if reduced to 0 it points. 

This will take a few points to make the Deity identical to an ochre jelly but... Making several copies of the deity all with their own spells, SLAs and attacks?

I can go on and on.. Point is, getting stuff from monsters can be unbalanced. I'd much rather have my Divine Feats and SDAs - and that brings me to my next point. Epic Feats vs Salient abilities.

Some do identical things, others are much stronger. Will we be getting Salient abilities later on? What is later on anyway? How will our deities justify their lowly demigod status? Are we all forced by the rule system to be newborn deities? I like Heliasillyel the way she is right now - an ancient Sun Elven deity. I'd be loathe to change her to a newborn Goddess.

Plus, we rare roleplaying GODS for crying out loud! Why are we starting at what is effectively level 1 for a God? If i wanted to be in another slow level 1 game i'd just join that. PbP is slooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww by the time we get 40 character levels the Internet will be gone :/ Especially if HM wants to run this as a regular game and award chunks of XP every 15 days. Why don't we start ad Divine Rank 6 and 20 Character levels at least? For the sake of simplicity? This will not be a simple game by any means.

For character growth? This is good, but we are not trembling farmboys and zealous Paladins. These are GODS, they have vast knowledge, power, they sense things in the future that are related to their portfolio etc. The way we roleplay them will not change, everyone will be doing their best to roleplay something we can never really comprehend (IRL at least i think none of you are Gods). Making the characters weaker does not make sense in a God campaign.

Back on topic with Epic Feats and Salient Divine Abilities. Here is a good example. I plan on taking 20 Bard and 20 Sorcerer levels. Heliasillyel is a Sun deity that loves beauty, song and dance. 

So i can make her a really good Bard via several Epic Feats, or a perfect Bard via two SDAs - a mortal will never get his Bardic Music to spread in a several mile radius even if he gets all the epic feats.

Also it really takes planning - why take three Automatic Quicken Epic Feats so you can instantly quicken your 9th level spells, when a simple Quicken Spell regular feat combined with Automatic Metamagic Salient Divine Ability will do the job?

Point is, SDAs can often save your character the use of tons of epic feats to get a better effect. If we will be getting SDAs, tell us to plan accordingly. Similarly, grant us the one SDA Demigods get. In the DD book it says that a deity gets one SDA per Divine rank, plus bonus SDAs depending it's status as a deity. Rank 0's still get ONE Salient Divine Ability. (page 32 for reference)



> Monstrous Size - All characters start at Medium size and may take Monstrous Size to increase or decrease their size by one stage. This special trait can be taken more than once to advance to larger or smaller sizes. For example, in order for a character to be Huge, they would need to take the Monstrous Size trait twice.



Purchasing sizes with Special Traits is useless since even at Divine Rank 0 a deity can get the Alter Size SDA and change freely from Fine to Colossal plus change objects as well. Again it's a matter of whether we will be getting SDAs or not.



> (may add 5 and lose one feat or subtract 5 an add an additional feat)



Giving up one feat for +5 BAB? So you are saying that 5 BAB (which needs 10 STR or DEX depending on your choice of weapon to get normally outside of more levels) is cheaper than one feat, but to get 2 of any ability you need to spend a Special Trait? So give up one feat to get the effect of 5 special traits for free! (minus the damage for STR but who cares)

My whole point is, *let's just stick to Deities and Demigods*. These were the problems i found at first glance, imagine how many more there can be later on.

Not to diminsh CM/VV's work, but there is a reason why the official sources are good - they were done over the time of months by a team of people.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 11, 2010)

@ Myth and Legend: Yes, it does have the opprotunity to go broke quickly but that is hwy the DM(s) are there. They wil look over it and will give it the go aheador not becuase with this system it becomes obvious very quickly who is trying to make and overpowered character or not. Immunity to magic doesn't mean much becaus us being gods we already have a massive amount of immunities and resistances to those things already, the others can easily be tweaked or banned again this is to the DM(s) to decide.

@Sunking: I personally like your idea because it is a nice balance between both of the camps that have sprung up on this thread. Being able to have HD buy makes for interesting opprotunities. I disagree with you on the idea that the gods seem the same because which abilities you choose (fluff and crunch wise) define your god incredibly and just because a magical god has a great attacks doesn't meean that he has to use them

Anyways I'm going to wait for the dust to settle until I make my god's RG sheet because there are no set rules at this time. If there are than can we please stop this arguing between he Homebrew camp and the Core camp so we can get down to actually playing these gods.

Not trying to offend, just trying to get this show on the road


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

Character gene rules have been posted and we will be using the hybird. ML thanks though for pointing out some abilities can be very bad, they are subject to DM approval and player (your) scrutiny. But what's the big deal about magic immunity don't gods start with SR 35+ ???

And if anyone what's to play a deity of oozes I'm to say no?? 







> Making several copies of the deity all with their own spells, SLAs and attacks?




I would diffently give some kind of draw back, trust me 

I am working on the Divine Rank, it will be based on number of worshippers so I'm thinking advancing will be quicker than you think. (Just do something godly in the middle of town)

Starting at lvl 1 godhood has led me to several ideals for this "campaign" I have low lvl ideals i don't think I can come up with a motive for higher Divine Rank deities to "adventure" still working out things.

Spend five trait points get +5 BAB and +5 damage and extra carrying/lifting capacity or...
Lose one feat and get +5 BAB or Lose +5 BAB and get a feat(non-epic)

My only point was a war god would have more BAB than the average god and a god of knowledge would have less (just another way to make the gods different)

The main goal is for everyone to have fun, and we will, just let me know when Deities and Demigods has a better way of doing things and I will listen. But for now (character creation) Divine Rank 0 and special traits to add flavor to characters is fun. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

@ GlassEye great concept and start Ubariya is ready for the IC and RG if you wish to try the homebrewed rules (they are posted n the RG)

@ FM also character gene rules are in the RG (I haven't added the fast healing limitation, but I will) So you can give a character a try after a few more we will geta feel if this is the way to go or twik somethings

@ SunKing well co-DM if you want to help check on characters I think a few will be posted pretty soon. 

HM


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 11, 2010)

As noted there, and as FM and HM said, not every ability could be purchased, or cost only one special trait point. That's what the DM is there for. 
Besides, personally I don't care if an entire nation spend ages making a balanced system. And I'm not saying CM's god creation rules are better, I just think they are simplier, and more in the tune of this particular campaign. Note that HM has altered them notably in his Hybrid creation rules as he calls it.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 11, 2010)

Thank you for telling me HM, I had no idea of this due to the continued arguments over ruling, thank you again


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

First character review and it looks like Rathan hasn't adjusted for the new base saves (now +20) or redid trait spending so i will come back to that another day have to go shovel snow. 

Also I thought on it and we will not use Epic Save/BAB rules but will progress in your class and add those the same as multiclassing. It will make for stronger characters in the end.

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 11, 2010)

*sighs softly...* well the rules keep changing a bit from time to time... I do believe I've got my Special Trait Points all worked out but I'll have to keep changing things as the rules change.... I may just wait to see what the final ruling is on character creation.... (unless we're all set and there will be no more changes that is)... 

EDIT: As the rules stand now I THINK I've gotten my stats straitened out and my Special Qualities Points taken care of and back to jusr 20 spent now.. 

to ML.... to be honest really... rules heavy systems leave NOTHING to chance and nothing to the winds... to me.. that's no fun... WotC routinely sucks the fun out of SOME things by overdoing it with the rules.... I say HM and Sunking just slap some rules together.. agree on them.... and run with those.... that way they have a simple well balanced method of keeping things in line and the power to veto what they want and the knowledge of what rules we as players are playing with.... 

If no one else will say it... I will and this is not to be rude... it's just the truth.... either get on board with the hybrid rules the DM wants to go with... or get off at the next station... and that's not just a comment for ML... but to anyone not happy with the DM's decision.... plain and simple...


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## GlassEye (Feb 11, 2010)

Ubariya is a spidery goddess.  Her base form is somewhat humanoid but with spider characteristics added.  Particularly, as in the image I posted above, large spider eyes and oddly formed arms and hands.  In addition, (unlike the image) she has two extra pair of spider legs.  Do I need to buy Monstrous Form (Aberration) [1 point] to get those changes from the basic humanoid form?  And those changes are purely cosmetic until I buy special abilities (such as slam attack, climb speed, etc.), correct?


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## Rathan (Feb 11, 2010)

I'm pretty sure you got the right jist of it Glass.... but I'll let the experts answer that officially for you...


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

Hmmm... very good question GlassEye and my inital thought is to say that and I am writing this to be copy pasted into the Character gene rules: 

Base form: Bipedal humaniod- But your character does not need to stay that way, you may add anything you wish cosmeticly to your character. So go crazy if you wish (VV and FM sure did), six arms, horns, or wings. BUT if you want the extra attacks, gore attacking. or flight you will need to spend your special trait points to receive any abilities.

OK before I do copy paste this any thoughts?

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 11, 2010)

Looks fine to me HM..... post it up


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 11, 2010)

I think if you want the god to have aberration traits, you must buy the aberration form. and fo the additional attacks, spider net spitting and such you'll have to but each ability. I guess you'll get poison too?


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

Character check Rathan, 

Deflection +14 looks like your CHA changed

BAB +16/+11/+6 I changed the rule on Epic BAB and Saves going to add class BAB as you lvl instead so I think your BAB should be +15/+10/+5

Where do you get the +13 Divine?? that is added to each save??

Skill points = 184 + (1 x 23) = 207 + 3 (Sorcerer)  hey is the max skill ranks right? says 23 but we will start play at 21st lvl. so that would mean max is 24

I don't get how you spent your 20 trait points?? maybe I should ask people to list the points spent after the ability?
oh well will figure it out

Just two things please, a portfoilo and a favored weapon 


HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> I think if you want the god to have aberration traits, you must buy the aberration form. and fo the additional attacks, spider net spitting and such you'll have to but each ability. I guess you'll get poison too?




Forgot about that in the rules you posted I think I will change them to the above as I don't think it feasable to have someone spend one trait point to get the appearance of a dragon, but no bite or claw attack, no flight, and no natrual armor bonus just weird.

I say pick the form and then by into the abilities, but still open for debate I need a rule on subtypes if you go and by all these things your subtype should change but should it be automatic??

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 11, 2010)

Well here is my first attempt at making a god, hope no migrains stem from it.

[sblock=Duretep, The Lost Prophet]


```
[B]Name:[/B] Duretep, The Lost Prophet
```


```
[FONT=Arial][B]Class:[/B] Sorcerer 1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Race:[/B] Outsider (Chaotic)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Size:[/B] Medium[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Gender:[/B] Male[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Alignment:[/B] Chaotic Neutral[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Deity:[/B] Himself[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Str:[/B] 12 +1 (2p.)(+2 trait)    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Dex:[/B] 14 +2 (6p.)   [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (6p.)   [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Int:[/B] 16 +3 (6p.) (+2 level)    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Wis:[/B] 7  -2 (-1p.)   [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Cha:[/B] 25 +7 (16p.)(+3 level,+4 trait)[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Level:[/B] 21[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]BAB:[/B] 25/20/15/10  [B]Grapple:[/B] +25 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]HP:[/B] 200 (160+40)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Speed:[/B] 60' ground, 120' Fly (Average)    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Dmg Red:[/B] 13/+4    [B]Spell Res:[/B] 32[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Init:[/B] +1               [B]Spell Save:[/B] +X[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]ACP:[/B] +0               [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial]                 [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size    Nat  Misc  Total[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Armor:[/B]      10      +0    +X     +2    +0    +13    +7    XX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Touch:[/B] 19              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] XX[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial]                       [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Fort:[/B]              +20    +2     X      +22[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Ref:[/B]               +20    +2     X      +22[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Will:[/B]              +20    -2     X      +18[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Languages:[/B] Common, [/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Special Abilities:[/B] Gibbering (DC 27), Madness, Madness Incarnate (Blnding Beauty) (DC 27), Corporeal Instability (DC 22), Quickness[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Spell-like Abilities:[/B] at will: Prestidigitation, Tongues, Haste, Displacment, Dispel Magic, Mirror Image (image AC 12), Major Image (DC 20), Detect Thoughts, Detect Poison, Detect Magic 3 times-per-day: Teleport, greater[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Class Abilities:[/B] Familiar, spell casting[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Domains:[/B] Destiny, Madness, Planning[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Immunities:[/B] Immortality, Transmutation, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Effects[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Resistances:[/B] Fire (20)[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Feats:[/B]  [/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Skill Points:[/B] 245       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 23/11 1/2[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Skills                   Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Bluff                         23      +7                +30[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Concentration            23      +2               +25[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Diplomacy                 23      +7              +30[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Forgery                   11.5     +3              +14.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Hide                        11.5    +2              +13.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(arcana)            23      +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(history)            23      +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(nature)             23     +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(religion)            23     +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(planes)             23     +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Move Silently            11.5    +2             +13.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Use Magic Device        23     +7            +30[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Spellcraft                  23     +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Perform(string)          5.5    +7              +12.5[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXcp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXsp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXgp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXgp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Total Weight:[/B]XXlb      [B]Money:[/B] XXgp XXsp XXcp[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]                         [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Max Weight:[/B]               XXX   XXX   XXX   XXX   XXX[/FONT]
```
[/sblock]


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## GlassEye (Feb 11, 2010)

I won't need Aberration form for appearances.  That's good.

So buying Aberration form gives the traits for that type?  Aberration traits are nearly identical to Outsider traits.  The important differences from my point of view: Aberrations are proficient with natural attacks, Outsiders with martial weapons.  Aberrations eat, sleep, and breath where Outsiders only need to breathe.  If I bought the aberration form would the Aberration traits replace the Outsider traits?  If I buy a natural attack is my character automatically proficient with it?  I would assume yes but that basically makes purchasing Aberration form pointless and even more of a disadvantage if you consider increased need for eating and sleeping.  Since we're gods maybe this should work in a fashion similar to the gestalt rules; i.e. I buy Aberration form and take the best parts from their traits and add them to the best parts of Outsider traits (keeping Outsider features).  Thoughts?

I was considering Alternate Form (spider swarm) [3 points], climb speed 40 ft. [2 points], a natural attack: either slam or stinger+poison [1 or 2 points] (stinger would actually be a poison spur on the legs but only one usable in this way per round), web [1 point].  Voda Vosa, I've noticed some similarities with your character so if you have a problem with me having a spider swarm alternate form let me know and I'll drop it.  It's more special effect than necessary for my character.

And the domains I'm considering are Law, Darkness, and Repose.  Her primary portfolio feature is the death/rebirth aspect.


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## Rathan (Feb 11, 2010)

HolyMan said:
			
		

> Deflection +14 looks like your CHA changed




Fixed...



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> BAB +16/+11/+6 I changed the rule on Epic BAB and Saves going to add class BAB as you lvl instead so I think your BAB should be +15/+10/+5




Fixed...



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Where do you get the +13 Divine?? that is added to each save??




A while back in the thread VV said he forgot to mention that the God(dess) adds their CHA to saves as well.... this was part of CM's rules but he forgot to add it... so that's what the 'divine' +13's are from.... however I changed it back to just CHA descriptor to make it more recognizable.... you might want to add to the rules that all God(dess') add their cha bonus to all saves....



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Skill points = 184 + (1 x 23) = 207 + 3 (Sorcerer) hey is the max skill ranks right? says 23 but we will start play at 21st lvl. so that would mean max is 24




Fixed...



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> I don't get how you spent your 20 trait points?? maybe I should ask people to list the points spent after the ability?
> oh well will figure it out




I have added [1]'s next to those things I spent my STP(Special Trait Points) on.... I have also added an sblock listing just the things I spent STP's on....



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Just two things please, a portfoilo and a favored weapon




What the heck do you put into a portfolilo? and her favored weapon will be the Bow.... Her Holy Symbol is a Flaming Bow with a jet back arrow.....


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## GlassEye (Feb 11, 2010)

Do the gods gain access to their domain powers?


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## Rathan (Feb 11, 2010)

> Domains and Spell-Like Abilities - Each character can choose three cleric domains. The deity can use all of the spells in those domains as at will spell like abilities with a Save DC of 10 + the level of the spell + the character's Charisma mod + Divine Rank. The character's caster level is 10 + Divine Rank.




I know we can cast our own domain spells at will as stated above... however the domain power associated with each domain I'm not exactly sure... HM.. a ruling on this please?


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## GlassEye (Feb 11, 2010)

Rathan, just wanted to point out that you have Fire Storm as an at will spell-like ability because of your Fire domain and you've also bought it as a 1/day special ability.


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## Theroc (Feb 11, 2010)

Just popping in to say: Looks like fun, but I haven't the time to work up a character at the moment.  If my games lessen in number or my muse gets a kick in the pants, I might work on something(because I've ALWAYS wanted to play a god... those abilities look like such fun to play with... despite the DM nightmare it must be)


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 11, 2010)

Ok my very long post might have seemed like a rant to some of you - it was not. The lack of smileyfaces means i'm serious, not that i'm bitching  Anyway, a few questions that were not answered (that i need to know so i can plan accordingly):

Will we be getting Salient Divine Abilities?
Will we still be eligible for Epic Feats?
If we are geting the SDAs, will you allow characters who have spent ponts on size upgrades to "restat" due to the SDA that allows a God to choose any size he/she needs at the moment?
Were you serious about that prestige class thing in the end of the writeup or was it a copy-paste thing? Because i can sure think of a few that would be really interesting. But it'd make your life much more miserable as far as approving characters goes. Maybe allow SRD prestige classes only?

Not using Epic BAB and saves is good IMO. Otherwise Warrior deities are at a severe disadvantage vs spellcasters. We can both hit for 4 attacks and say 20 bab, but i can cast things like Time Stop? So i'm with HM on that ruling.

Spell Immunity is much much better than any SR one can get. The reason being that dedicated casters that get the Spell Penetration tree of feats and epic feats, and have 40 or 50 for their primary attribute will punch trough 35 SR with ease. Hell, a level 15Wizard/5 Archmage can cut trough 35 SR with a good roll. Being immune to spells is very very broken. Trust me. 

BUT if you all agree it's not you are just making me prove it by taking the ability 

Rathan... you... really... like... fullstops... don't you...  

Just _teasing_ I don't know why people take these forums so seriously sometimes. When in doubt (or angry at ML), just look at my signature. Yep


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## Sunking (Feb 11, 2010)

weel i was thinking about the special abilityes you can buy, and one thing what if it as (SU) wich looks or are a lot like a spell exambels following its abilityes i feel would give Sirion the right feel of Psion but should they be bought as 1 special ability or bought throu the spell-like ability option ??
---
*Detect Thoughts (Su)*

A doppelganger can continuously use _detect thoughts_ as the spell (caster level 18th; Will DC 13 negates). It can suppress or resume this ability as a free action. The save DC is Charisma-based. 
 
It would still be at will but not continual if i bought it as a spell like
---

*Dominate Monster (Su)*

A formian taskmaster can use a _dominate monster_ ability as the spell from a 10th-level caster (Will DC 17 negates), although the subject may be of any kind and may be up to Large size. Creatures that successfully save cannot be affected by the same taskmaster’s _dominate monster_ ability for 24 hours. A single taskmaster can dominate up to four subjects at a time. The save DC is Charisma-based. 
 
I know I anit gonna get this one for one point special buy but what would it cost to buy this one

---

And then for Sirions dark side how would this work and what would it cost

*Trap Essence (**Su**)*
The devourer is named for its ability to consume an enemy’s life essence. To do so, it must forgo its normal melee attacks and make a trap essence attack. This requires a normal attack roll but deals no damage. The save DC is Charisma-based. A slain creature’s essence is trapped within the devourer’s ribs, and the tiny figure takes on that victim’s features. The trapped essence cannot be raised or resurrected, but a _limited wish_, _miracle_, or _wish_ spell frees it, as does destroying the devourer. A devourer can hold only one essence at a time. 
The trapped essence provides a devourer with enough power to use five spell-like abilities for each Hit Die or level of the trapped creature. As this energy is expended, the twisted soul fades away until it evaporates completely. The trapped essence gains one negative level for every five times the devourer uses one of its spell-like abilities. When the essence’s number of negative levels equals the creature’s total Hit Dice or level, the essence is destroyed. If an essence is freed, the restored creature must succeed on a DC 19 Fortitude save for each negative level or lose that level permanently. 
 
my suggestion might be somthing allong the line of 

the comsumed essens grant a pool of 5XHD wich can be used to power Spell-like abilitys (normal price) bought only for this purpos (no other uses) and payed 1 essens per lvl of spell wich means if i bought fireball it would cost 3 essens evry time it was used...

dont know if this will work, im in both camps about this ability myself.
Anybody got a oppineion.
---

ohh and i have looked at the first 2 carekters in the RP it looks good


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> I. Since we're gods maybe this should work in a fashion similar to the gestalt rules; i.e. I buy Aberration form and take the best parts from their traits and add them to the best parts of Outsider traits (keeping Outsider features). Thoughts?
> 
> .




I got rid of monstrous form but will re-add the following:

Extra Subtype- In addition to being outsiders, a player may pay 1 special trait point to add an additional subtype (once only). There by gaining the creature traits of that type in addition to the their outsider traits.Some creture types may not be allowed by the DM (thinking undead for sure )



Rathan said:


> A while back in the thread VV said he forgot to mention that the God(dess) adds their CHA to saves as well.... this was part of CM's rules but he forgot to add it... so that's what the 'divine' +13's are from.... however I changed it back to just CHA descriptor to make it more recognizable.... you might want to add to the rules that all God(dess') add their cha bonus to all saves....
> 
> What the heck do you put into a portfolilo? and her favored weapon will be the Bow.... Her Holy Symbol is a Flaming Bow with a jet back arrow.....




Hmm.. wonder if he did that due to the Divine Rank 0?  Guess we will try it.

Portfolilo like: God of adventure, chivalry, 



GlassEye said:


> Do the gods gain access to their domain powers?






Theroc said:


> Just popping in to say: Looks like fun, but I haven't the time to work up a character at the moment. If my games lessen in number or my muse gets a kick in the pants, I might work on something(because I've ALWAYS wanted to play a god... those abilities look like such fun to play with... despite the DM nightmare it must be)


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

Wow two for one...

Guess I can answer SunKings questions here then. lt's see.

How you purchase the ability is up to you if you want to have it listed like the monster you got it from go that way. If you want to have it a certain times per day then buy it like a spell like ability.

Yes Dominate monster being 9th lvl and all wow what would be a fair cost? It would all be based on number of creatures controled, duration and such. So you could lower the amount of creatures say (from four to two or even raise it). So I would need to know every thing to know point costs

BRB gf stuck in the snow... LOL

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 11, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Ok my very long post might have seemed like a rant to some of you - it was not. The lack of smileyfaces means i'm serious, not that i'm bitching  Anyway, a few questions that were not answered (that i need to know so i can plan accordingly):
> 
> Will we be getting Salient Divine Abilities?
> Will we still be eligible for Epic Feats?
> ...




Love it when you rant it gets me thinking... so thanks 

Answers:
-Yes, Deities and Demigods says that every deity of Rank 1 or higher has at least one additional power. So none to start but will be gaining them.
-Yes, as 21st lvl characters you will be eligible.
-But I see those as to different things, in creation you were born/made a certain size/ and later on you gained the power to manipulate your size. So I would say no taking a size different than medium gives you benefits and need to be paid for. And the power you talk about will give you benefits as well need to pay for both.
-You can be any prestige class you quailfiy for, just remember we are using Core and the SRD only. So those classes only.


HM


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 11, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> I won't need Aberration form for appearances.  That's good.
> 
> So buying Aberration form gives the traits for that type?  Aberration traits are nearly identical to Outsider traits.  The important differences from my point of view: Aberrations are proficient with natural attacks, Outsiders with martial weapons.  Aberrations eat, sleep, and breath where Outsiders only need to breathe.  If I bought the aberration form would the Aberration traits replace the Outsider traits?  If I buy a natural attack is my character automatically proficient with it?  I would assume yes but that basically makes purchasing Aberration form pointless and even more of a disadvantage if you consider increased need for eating and sleeping.  Since we're gods maybe this should work in a fashion similar to the gestalt rules; i.e. I buy Aberration form and take the best parts from their traits and add them to the best parts of Outsider traits (keeping Outsider features).  Thoughts?
> 
> ...




I think if you take natural attacks you are proficient with it, why take it otherwise?
As far as the aberration traits go, I think you'll be getting the best of that type. Perhaps aberration is not that good compared with outsider, but think of undead, swarm, construct, etc, which are perhaps more useful. I'm thinking that depending on the benefit certain subtypes give you, HM should state how many trait points does it costs. 

As for the swarm thing, no biggie, we are swarms of different things.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 11, 2010)

> -Yes, Deities and Demigods says that every deity of Rank 1 or higher has at least one additional power. So none to start but will be gaining them.
> -Yes, as 21st lvl characters you will be eligible.
> -But I see those as to different things, in creation you were born/made a certain size/ and later on you gained the power to manipulate your size. So I would say no taking a size different than medium gives you benefits and need to be paid for. And the power you talk about will give you benefits as well need to pay for both.
> -You can be any prestige class you quailfiy for, just remember we are using Core and the SRD only. So those classes only.



 Great!

Let me just point something out about SDAs as i did include it in my previous post but i guess it got sidestepped due to the sheer size of the thing  On Salient Divine Abilites and Divine Rank 0 Demigods:



> A salient divine ability is like a feat—it gives a deity a new capability or improves one that the deity already has. As noted earlier, a deity has one salient divine ability for each divine rank the deity has, plus additional salient divine abilities reflecting its status: *Demigods receive one bonus ability*, lesser deities receive two bonus abilities, intermediate deities receive three, and greater deities receive five. Some salient divine abilities have prerequisites. Usually, the deity must have all the listed prerequisites to have the ability. *A divine rank of 1 is a prerequisite for all salient divine abilities.*



So, we do get one SDA at our current Divine Rank, we just can't _use it _since the prerequisite is being a deity of Divine Rank 1. How ironic


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 11, 2010)

I say Sunkin proposed powers are fine, since he must first kill the creature to use trap esscence. As for dominate, it would just be like buying dominate monster.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 11, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Great!
> 
> Let me just point something out about SDAs as i did include it in my previous post but i guess it got sidestepped due to the sheer size of the thing  On Salient Divine Abilites and Divine Rank 0 Demigods:
> 
> So, we do get one SDA at our current Divine Rank, we just can't _use it _since the prerequisite is being a deity of Divine Rank 1. How ironic




It's tricky to be a god.


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## Rathan (Feb 11, 2010)

GlassEye said:
			
		

> *Rathan, just wanted to point out that you have Fire Storm as an at will spell-like ability because of your Fire domain and you've also bought it as a 1/day special ability.*




I'm very much aware I did that Glass.... if you notice a God(dess) can only cast her domain spells at will with a caster level 10+DR.... which means I only get a 10d6 firestorm.... with it as a spell like ability I get a 20d6 firestorm and I can empower it with my feats.... DC is however the same either way....


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 11, 2010)

I was reviewing my character for the changes suggested by Sunkin and came across a doubt.

If the character is a HUGE swarm, composed of DIMINUTIVE individuals:
-Which ability modifications should I apply? HUGE / DIMINUTIVE 
-Which skill bonuses should I apply? HUGE / DIMINUTIVE 
-Which AC bonus should I apply? HUGE / DIMINUTIVE 
-Which Move silently/hide should I apply? HUGE / DIMINUTIVE


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## GlassEye (Feb 11, 2010)

Rathan said:


> I'm very much aware I did that Glass.... if you notice a God(dess) can only cast her domain spells at will with a caster level 10+DR.... which means I only get a 10d6 firestorm.... with it as a spell like ability I get a 20d6 firestorm and I can empower it with my feats.... DC is however the same either way....




I figured I was overlooking something like that but I couldn't figure out what it was.  Thanks for explaining.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 11, 2010)

Just wondering if anyone got to looking at my character sheet to see if it is up to par, all that I don't have finished on it are feats and sorcerer spells. If you would like me to repost I would be glad to.

On a side note would I have more sorcerer spells due to high HD? Just wanted to ask to amke sure because I thought not but wanted to make sure


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## Sunking (Feb 12, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> I was reviewing my character for the changes suggested by Sunkin and came across a doubt.
> 
> If the character is a HUGE swarm, composed of DIMINUTIVE individuals:
> -Which ability modifications should I apply? HUGE / DIMINUTIVE
> ...




Well looking at Swarms in the srd my call would be all of abowe DIMINUTIVE the Huge comes into play when looking wich arear your swarm can cover wich would be 16 squars any way you want as long as its connected.

And may Holyman strike me down with lightning (or somthing else im immune to) if im wrong

---

on a difrent node Sirion have entert the gray mist. 
And im so glad we dident go for 50 lvl, just 21 took to long


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## Sunking (Feb 12, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> Just wondering if anyone got to looking at my character sheet to see if it is up to par, all that I don't have finished on it are feats and sorcerer spells. If you would like me to repost I would be glad to.
> 
> On a side note would I have more sorcerer spells due to high HD? Just wanted to ask to amke sure because I thought not but wanted to make sure




it took some time to find my home cpu is slower than a treant, and it would help if you made a node about the 20 special ability point buy, what you payed for what and souch.

You need a favorit weapon, feats and a holy symbol aldog I think you have posted some of this in otherpost in the tread, but its needet in the charekter sheet for easy find.

then for easy finding when ready for next checkup post in the RP

and no not more spells because of HD

---

I was thinking

demigods (divine rank 0) get 1 bonus salint divine ability 
lesser gods (divine rank 1-5) get 2 bonus salint divine ability 
+Divine rank

but because of the req. of DR 1 before salient divine abilitys this are gonna mean that when we hit DR 1 we get 3 salient divine abilitys , wouldent it be better if we lowered the req. to DR 0 so we could spendt the first salient divine abilitys now (and feel even more godish) all other req. of salient divine abilitys  offcourse still aply


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 12, 2010)

That could be nice.


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## Rathan (Feb 12, 2010)

OOOOOR if HM is REALLY nice he'll let us start out at DR 1... because at that point we are no longer Demi-Gods... we are full fledged Gods and Goddess'... to me that sounds like what most here are shooting for... why not just give us the first level of DR and call us all true Gods and Goddess' that come and spin fate to create a new world?

- Rathan


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 12, 2010)

Sunking said:


> it took some time to find my home cpu is slower than a treant, and it would help if you made a node about the 20 special ability point buy, what you payed for what and souch.
> 
> You need a favorit weapon, feats and a holy symbol aldog I think you have posted some of this in otherpost in the tread, but its needet in the charekter sheet for easy find.
> 
> ...




Thanks, I just didn't know if any one looked at it. I will make those changes/additions and I know that I had no feats (that will probably take an entire day to decide).

alright then, this will make choosing sorcerer spells easier. I just heard among the arguments here that it was the other way, thank you for the clarification


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## GlassEye (Feb 12, 2010)

HM, you quoted my question 'Do our gods gain access to their domain powers?' but you never actually answered it.

Also, I'm viewing Ubariya as a warrior-ish type (fits with her bit as grim reaper, I think).  How would I handle multiple natural attacks of the same type?  Specifically, I was considering having her four spider legs function as a stinger attack (poison barb on the legs).  Do I need to buy 'stinger' four times or just once with the multiattack feat (or whatever that feat is)?  Will buying poison once work for each of her four spiderleg barbs?  If this is too much cheese let me know and I'll give up the idea of multiple leg attacks.



Voda Vosa said:


> I was reviewing my character for the changes suggested by Sunkin and came across a doubt.
> 
> If the character is a HUGE swarm, composed of DIMINUTIVE individuals:
> -Which ability modifications should I apply? HUGE / DIMINUTIVE
> ...




I would say that when you are in Shambler form you use the huge modifiers.  When in Swarm form (dispersed plants, not Shambler form) you use diminutive modifiers.  Though I'm not sure how you've bought your sizes; it seems you've spent 2 points for swarm component size which would give size Tiny components, if I understand it correctly.



Frozen Messiah said:


> Just wondering if anyone got to looking at my character sheet to see if it is up to par, all that I don't have finished on it are feats and sorcerer spells. If you would like me to repost I would be glad to.




I glanced at it briefly and didn't notice anything wrong.



Sunking said:


> demigods (divine rank 0) get 1 bonus salint divine ability
> lesser gods (divine rank 1-5) get 2 bonus salint divine ability
> +Divine rank
> 
> but because of the req. of DR 1 before salient divine abilitys this are gonna mean that when we hit DR 1 we get 3 salient divine abilitys , wouldent it be better if we lowered the req. to DR 0 so we could spendt the first salient divine abilitys now (and feel even more godish) all other req. of salient divine abilitys  offcourse still aply




I haven't reread those rules recently but I don't think the bonus salient divine abilities stack.  And note that Divine Rank 0 isn't a demigod, it's a quasi-deity and so doesn't get a SDA.


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## Rathan (Feb 12, 2010)

GlassEye said:
			
		

> Originally Posted by Sunking View Post
> demigods (divine rank 0) get 1 bonus salint divine ability
> lesser gods (divine rank 1-5) get 2 bonus salint divine ability
> +Divine rank
> ...




If you actually look at that though... levels 1-5 get a base of 2 SDA's Plus Divine Rank

so at DR 1 you would have THREE SDA's at DR 2 you'd have a total of 4 and so on as it seems you gain one per DR 'level' so yes.. at DR 1 you'd have three....

*My vote is still for starting at DR1 though! Would make us fully realized fledgling deities with a bit of godlike prowess!*


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## GlassEye (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok, maybe I'm missing something but I think it is as follows:
Divine Rank 0: no SDA's
Divine Rank 1-5 (demigod): 1 bonus SDA +1/divine rank
Divine Rank 6-10 (lesser deity): 2 bonus SDA's +1/divine rank
Etc.

Note: I would also think Divine Rank 1 to start would be nice.


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## Rathan (Feb 12, 2010)

Perhaps... I'm just going on what Sunking first posted... I've not actually read the rules on SDA's at ALL yet.... still waiting to know if we're actually going to use them....


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## Roman (Feb 12, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Ok, maybe I'm missing something but I think it is as follows:
> Divine Rank 0: no SDA's
> Divine Rank 1-5 (demigod): 1 bonus SDA +1/divine rank
> Divine Rank 6-10 (lesser deity): 2 bonus SDA's +1/divine rank
> Etc.




Agreed - I am not sure where the one SDA was coming from. If we have Divine Rank 0, we should not have any SDAs (unless it is implemented as a houserule).


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 12, 2010)

Quiting the source (again) - *Deities and Demigods, page 32*



> *SALIENT DIVINE ABILITIES*
> 
> A salient divine ability is like a feat—it gives a deity a new capability or improves one that the deity already has. As noted earlier, a deity has one salient divine ability for each divine rank the deity has, plus additional salient divine abilities reflecting its status: Demigods receive one bonus ability, lesser deities receive two bonus abilities, intermediate deities receive three, and greater deities receive five.
> 
> ...



So we get 1 ability at DR0 but can't spend it due to the universal requirement for all SDAs to be taken, namely having DR1 at least. At DR1 we will have 1+1 bonus. At Dr2 we will have 2+1 bonus and so on. When we get to DR5 we will get 5+2 because we are no longer Demigods.

Well since i was the one rooting we start with DR6 and 20 character levels DR 1 is still good for me.


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## GlassEye (Feb 12, 2010)

Looking at a few of the deities, their ranks and SDA's from Deities and Demigods:
Hermes DR 15; 18 salient abilities (15 for rank +3 as Intermediate god)
Hestia DR 9; 11 salient abilities (9 for ranks +2 as lesser god)
Pan DR 7; 9 SDA's (7 for ranks +2 as lesser god)

I could go on but I think it's clear the writers did not give an SDA for divine rank 0.

Also, Rank 5 is still a demigod so it would still be 5+1 SDA's.  Lesser deity begins at DR6.


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## GlassEye (Feb 12, 2010)

Ok, something else I'm not quite clear on.  We're 21 level, right?  HM has given us +20 Bab and +20 base saves.  How do our first class Bab and saves calculate into that?  Do we just add the first level bab/saves for our class?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 12, 2010)

Yes add them directly as per your class's progression table. 

Also, you are right, DR0 does not grant a SDA. Here is why:

Rank 0: Creatures of this rank are sometimes called *quasideities* or hero deities. Creatures that have a mortal and a deity as parents also fall into this category. These entities cannot grant spells, but are immortal and usually have one or more ability scores that are far above the norm for their species. They may have some worshipers. Ordinary mortals do not have a divine rank of 0. They lack a divine rank altogether.

So, we are not Demigods yet.

HM, here is the RP justification on why she is a Divine Rank 0 only:

[sblock=Story]     Since the primordial chaos of Creation, every world that supported life, had a sun in it's skies. Each and every sentient race in existence, began it's worshiping and religions by revering the Sun. Heliasillyel took form and power once the Sun Elves began to advance as a separate race, and rapidly grew in power as her worshipers were blessed with natural longevity.

The Goddess, true to her children's character, loves beauty in art and form, and encourages new beginnings and spontaneity. She does not equate herself with Lavaria's violence and fiery rage, but instead with a tranquil light and benevolent demeanor. She helped them gain knowledge, prosper and eventually grow to one of the most advanced civilizations. With the disvovery of the Spelljammer ships, her peoples have began spreading to other crystal spheres, thus spreading Heliasillyel 's influence as well.

Heliasillyel enjoys taking up the form of a mortal Sun Elven woman, walking the streets of Helivyalla and intermingling with her people. The Goddess of the Sun enjoys dance, song, music and laughter, and will frequently indulge in the week-long festivals that her followers organize for her.

 Now, in the new world, only a tinkle of the river of power she possesses can be utilized, as her worshipers are only a handful of Sun Elves that have traveled here via a Spalljammer ship. The Goddess intends on spreading her Dogma and relying on her culturally advanced followers to convert the local populace.[/sblock]

Oh and because some of you were worried that immunities will weaken our characters and their ability to kill each other, here is something to be noted:

Immunities: Deities have the following immunities. Individual
deities may have more immunities. *Unless otherwise indicated,
these immunities do not apply if the attacker is a deity of
equal or higher rank.* That's for things like Fire Immunity gained by the Fire subtype. Note that Deities of rank 1 or higher are immune to electricity, cold, and acid, even if the attacker is a deity of higher divine rank.

BTW the SRD has some of the divine rules. Check it out:


Divine Ranks & Powers
Divine Abilities & Feats
Additional Domains, Spells, & Divine Minions


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 12, 2010)

I was looking for feats for my gods to take and a thought occured to me: How do we deal with leadership and would it be allowed?


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 12, 2010)

I think it wouldn't matter a lot, since we are immune almost to everything, so the minions and cohort would be useless. Assuming we are supposed to battle titans or other deities.


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## HolyMan (Feb 12, 2010)

Been busy with work and snow, you all have been very busy glad I have a co-DM (great job SunKing & ML the assistant co-DM  ) I have read through and will be posting shortly but for right now:

FM, Leadership = headache so no to taking Leadership please, besides my thinking is Leadership should be saved for when you want to become leader of a Pantheon like Zeus or Odin and have all the other godlings your followers.

GlassEye I did quote you but ran off to an emergency (snow/car) I was going to say according to the rules you gain your access to your domain powers at DR 1 another reason I wanted to start DR 0 

Let me re-read and answer as I can but you may not win me over the campaign I'm working on makes bing DR 0 to start a major focus. 

You all want me to give my plot away don't you???? 
I'm having a great time hope you all are doing the same.

HM


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## Theroc (Feb 13, 2010)

Hm, you quoted me too before you ran off.  Not that any response to me is important, I'm just naturally curious what you'd intended to reply with.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 13, 2010)

alright then, no leadership makes my life easier also. So when we actually start to gain a gathering than we are going to use the rules of followers but not have the feats, am I on the right train of thought?

Here is my second try at making a proper sheet, I will just copy/paste my god info sheet into the rg and put this in a spoiler block at the bottom if this is all up to snuff. I believe that i have filled in all of the sections equipment beacuse we have no ruling on that, sorcerer spells, and no chosen SDA yet.

[sblock= Duretep, The Lost Prophet]


```
[B]Name:[/B] Duretep, The Lost Prophet
```


```
[FONT=Arial][B]Class:[/B] Sorcerer 1[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Race:[/B] Outsider (Chaotic)[1][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Size:[/B] Medium[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Gender:[/B] Male[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Alignment:[/B] Chaotic Neutral[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Deity:[/B] Himself[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Str:[/B] 12 +1 (2p.)(+2 trait[1])    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Dex:[/B] 14 +2 (6p.)   [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Con:[/B] 14 +2 (6p.)   [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Int:[/B] 16 +3 (6p.) (+2 level[1])    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Wis:[/B] 7  -2 (-1p.)   [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Cha:[/B] 25 +7 (16p.)(+3 level,+4 trait[2])[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Level:[/B] 21[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]BAB:[/B] 25/20/15/10[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Grapple:[/B] +25 [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]HP:[/B] 200 (160+40)[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Speed:[/B] 60' ground, 120' Fly (Average)[1]    [/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Dmg Red:[/B] 13/+4    [B]Spell Res:[/B] 32[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Init:[/B] +10               [B]Spell Save:[/B] +X[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]ACP:[/B] +0               [B]Spell Fail:[/B] 0%[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial]             [B]Base  Armor Shld   Dex  Size    Nat  Misc  Total[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Armor:[/B]      10      +0    +X       +2     +0      +13   +7      XX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Touch:[/B] XX              [B]Flatfooted:[/B] XX[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial]                       [B]Base   Mod  Misc  Total[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Fort:[/B]                  +20    +2     X      +22[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Ref:[/B]                   +20    +2     X      +22[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Will:[/B]                   +22    -2     X      +20[/FONT]
 
[B][FONT=Arial]Weapon                  Attack   Damage     Critical[/FONT][/B]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                      +X     XdXX+X     XX-XXxX[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Languages:[/B] Common, Draconic, Celestial, Infernal [/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Special Abilities:[/B] Gibbering (DC 27)[1], Madness[1], Madness Incarnate (Blnding Beauty) (DC 27)[1],[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Corporeal Instability (DC 22)[1], Quickness [1][/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Spell-like Abilities:[/B] at will: Prestidigitation[1], Tongues[1], Haste[1], Displacment[1], Dispel Magic[1],[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Mirror Image (image AC 12)[1], Major Image (DC 20)[1], Detect Thoughts[1],Detect Magic[1][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]3 times-per-day: Teleport, greater[1][/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Class Abilities:[/B] Spellcasting, Familiar [/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Domains:[/B] Destiny, Madness, Planning[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Immunities:[/B] Immortality, Transmutation,[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Mind-Affecting Effects[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Resistances:[/B] Fire (20)[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Feats:[/B]Improved Intiative, Superior Intiaitve, Automatic Silent Spell, Silent Spell, Eschew Materials, Spell Penetration, Greater Spell Penetration[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Skill Points:[/B] 245       [B]Max Ranks:[/B] 24/12[/FONT]
[B][FONT=Arial]Skills                    Ranks  Mod  Misc  Total[/FONT][/B]
[FONT=Arial]Bluff                         24      +7             +31[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Concentration            24      +2             +27[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Autohypnosis             23      -2             +21[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Forgery                   11.5     +3            +13.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Hide                        11.5    +2             +13.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(arcana)            24      +3              +27[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(history)            23      +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(nature)             23     +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(religion)            23     +3              +26[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Know(planes)             24     +3              +27[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Move Silently            11.5    +2            +13.5[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Use Magic Device        23     +7              +30[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Spellcraft                  24     +3              +27[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]Perform(String)          5.5    +7             +12.5[/FONT]
 
[B][FONT=Arial]Equipment:               Cost  Weight[/FONT][/B]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXcp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXsp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXgp   XXlb[/FONT]
[FONT=Arial]XXXX                     XXgp   XXlb[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial][B]Total Weight:[/B]XXlb      [B]Money:[/B] XXgp XXsp XXcp[/FONT]
 
[FONT=Arial]                          [B]Lgt   Med   Hvy  Lift  Push[/B][/FONT]
[FONT=Arial][B]Max Weight:[/B]               XXX   XXX   XXX   XXX   XXX[/FONT]
```
[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Feb 13, 2010)

Theroc said:


> Hm, you quoted me too before you ran off. Not that any response to me is important, I'm just naturally curious what you'd intended to reply with.




Something like don't you have enough games?// LOL jk

When you have the time come on in!! I think with my current plan adding in deities would not only be easy but may be necasary. And I hate to run to many NPC's.

Also need you to post in:

MotM- Malice of the Medusa
Spider's Path
Mactire's Misfits

oh aand probably more were we are players together LOL 

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 13, 2010)

Co-asisstant-coffee maker-DM reporting!  I posted Heliasillyel for your viewing pleasure. In the course of making this huuuge character sheet, i came accross some things that are to be noted:

I don't have enough feats  So i'll probably have to burn Epic Feat slots to get regular feats that are prerequisites for SDAs later on.

Will we be getting more trait points? Cuz i don't know how else i'm we're getting 30+ in each stat (drools)

Reminding you all that we have Epic Use of some of our skills. Perform, in particular, is just awesome.

It seems logical that any spell a Deity can cast at will and is a form of self-buff, will be on at all times unless potentially hazardous to others (like Blade Barrier of Flame Shield). I will make a list with all spells that are active 24/7.

If one takes levels in a relevant Craft skill, he can be assumed to possess at the very least, a masterwork item of that type. For example, i took Craft: Musical Instrument and can have a masterwork fiddle even before the item rules have been clarified.

Oh that reminds me to remind HM that *we need item rules to finish our character creation.*

I also propose we design 5 NPCs that will serve as the backbone of our respective religion in the new world. For Heliasillyel those would be the High-Priests and Priestesses that came with their Spelljammer ship, leading the other Sun Elves. Not sure if we have to stat them though, that might be too much work (and pretty irrelevant in the face of the monsters our Gods are compared to regular characters).

But for a roleplaying purpuse those would serve us and HM well. He can RP each NPC as per his own whim, or in accordance to bio's we have provided. But it'd be good for each god to have someone he can tell *"go to that city and do this in my name before the other gods get there and convert them in stead!"*

Oh, since you allowed for any Monster Ability from the SRD does that include Epic monsters as well?


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## HolyMan (Feb 13, 2010)

and that remind me to remind you to remind oh nevermind.... 

You won't be needing items in the Grey Mist which reminds me:

Does everyone think starting March 1 to be a good starting date???

We have most things answered and will have the rest during RPing.

HM


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## Roman (Feb 13, 2010)

Hmm, I just looked at some of the SDAs. Looking at Alter Reality, it allows the duplication of any spell of 9th level or lower. There is a rest requirement, but it is not completely from the description if the rest requirement only applies to making effects permament or if it applies after simply creating any effect (as in using the ability). The latter would make more sense, since otherwise that would render any spellcasting classes (wizards, sorcerers, clerics, etc.) completely redundant, but the description makes it seem more likely that the former is the case. Can you guys take a look at it? 

On another note, over the past two days I have been pretty indecisive as to my concept. I have finally narrowed it down to three concepts, but have not yet made up my mind among them.


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## HolyMan (Feb 13, 2010)

Take your time Roman becoming a God is a tough process LOL.. 

We can always start and have your guy floating in the "Mist" till you are ready but remember you don't need much to start RPing with him.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 13, 2010)

Where and what am i doing so many questions so many characters ok let me try and get the few characters I have checked out of the way first:

Rathan:

Synergy bonuses-
+8 Diplomacy
+4 Spellcraft
+4 Survival other planes (very useful for a fire plane native)
+4 To follow tracks
+4 Use Magic Device

Need Spells Known for Sorcerer and List of your Domain spells you can cast.

SunKing:

You have hp= 189 I got 185 (please check my math, not good at it)
Will be going over this Trap Essence further, like when I get some sleep but work this weekend and the holiday will problably slow me down or I won't have a girlfriend next year 

You have Extended Spell listed as a feat but you do not get domain powers till DR 1, sorry.

Note: I am still looking into Damage Reduction (I had a house rule on that that may apply) and I need to go to VotD and answer a question I just remebered i did not answer.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 13, 2010)

ok before I call it a night:

FM a look at your character on page 7 and I see:

Damage Reduction should be 35/+4 for now
Add CHA modifier to all saves
Languages???  hmmm...I didn't think on that thanks 
And skill points I have you at 258 (now remeber math and me don't mix) let's see: 184 + (3 x 23 ) + (2 + 3) = 184 + 69 + 5 = 258 skill points


Oh and @ ML read your new background and that was something like I was planning (just no spelljammers LOL boy how long since I played that  ) It is why I only wanted to do DR 0 your followers will be low to start I was thinking that the new planet would be uninhabited and your first adventure would be to make it safe for follower transplant. If I do it would just happen before the spelljammer trip.

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 13, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> FM a look at your character on page 7 and I see:
> 
> Damage Reduction should be 35/+4 for now
> Add CHA modifier to all saves
> ...




Thanks, I will put thoise changes in and Duretep will be in RG, sound good or is there something else I need to do?


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## Sunking (Feb 13, 2010)

Myth this is the things I found in first lookover

Multi spell req. 9th lvl spell you got 9th lvl. spell-like abilitys that is not the same.

There is SR on Aid, holy aura, endure elements and heroisme so those you are total immune to because of the Immunity to magic (Ex)

And last a question you brought Immunity to magic up as on the edge of broken yet you are the only one taking it, I am interested in how du you explain it fluff wise and why?


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## Sunking (Feb 13, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> SunKing:
> 
> You have hp= 189 I got 185 (please check my math, not good at it)
> Will be going over this Trap Essence further, like when I get some sleep but work this weekend and the holiday will problably slow me down or I won't have a girlfriend next year
> ...




you were right about the hp don't know what happend.
well since i only got psion powers and spell-like abilityes i don't even have a use for extendet spell so fine by me, does this mean that we cant cast our domain spells before DR 1 eighter.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 13, 2010)

> Multi spell req. 9th lvl spell you got 9th lvl. spell-like abilitys that is not the same.




Our domain spells range up to level 9 though. I guess HM will have to make a ruling on that. Plus I'm not going to make use of Multispell untill i get Divine Metamagic so i can instantly Quicken any spell i want.



> There is SR on Aid, holy aura, endure elements and heroisme so those you are total immune to because of the Immunity to magic (Ex)



 I was under the impression that Immunity to magic does not interfere with your own harmless spells, since in the Spell Resistance tab it says "A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities." HM?



> And last a question you brought Immunity to magic up as on the edge of broken yet you are the only one taking it, I am interested in how du you explain it fluff wise and why?



I said outright that it's broken, you all said it's fine. If it's fine, I'm taking it  Fluff wise - a Goddess of the Sun, she radiates energy, she is a power source on her own. Mortal magic is trivial to her. I could have gone further and take the Immunity to Magic ability from a Demilich that doesn't even allow Maze and MM to be cast.


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## Rathan (Feb 13, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:
			
		

> I guess HM will have to make a ruling on that. Plus I'm not going to make use of Multispell until i get Divine Metamagic so i can instantly Quicken any spell i want.




HM doesn't have to make a ruling ML on that multispell thing Sunking is the Co-DM.... what he says goes.... *shakes his head*



			
				Myth and Legend said:
			
		

> I was under the impression that Immunity to magic does not interfere with your own harmless spells, since in the Spell Resistance tab it says "A creature’s spell resistance never interferes with its own spells, items, or abilities." HM?




Your right about SR... SR does not stop harmless spells... BUT the Magic Immunity is a WHOLE different animal.... now if I remember correctly if you are IMMUNE to magic.... then even beneficial spells are nulled... I COULD be wrong here... but I don't have the time nor the exact pages in which book to back this atm... I'm sure someone can help me back this here please...


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## Theroc (Feb 13, 2010)

Okay, so I can't resist attempting a godlike character anymore, so I'll likely be coming up with something in the next few days or so...

HM, is there a chance you could compile the character creation rules in a single location so I needn't search through 8 pages of discussion/debate on what is entailed?


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## Sunking (Feb 13, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Our domain spells range up to level 9 though. I guess HM will have to make a ruling on that. Plus I'm not going to make use of Multispell untill i get Divine Metamagic so i can instantly Quicken any spell i want.
> 
> well in the char. gen. it states the Domain power ar usable at will like spell-like abilitys.
> 
> ...




I never said it was fine, but we are making very high powered charekters, and with great power comes great responcibility. 
and for your fluff wise you have nothing in your portfolio, domains, dogma or history that accounts for magic imunnity.
saying Mortal magic is trivial to her, is a explation of your 35+ SR not  magic imunnity.

what im trying to say even if it is alowed to make pun-pun lets not, lets go for fluff, as it is we are mighty gods no need to smell of cheese.


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## Sunking (Feb 13, 2010)

Theroc said:


> Okay, so I can't resist attempting a godlike character anymore, so I'll likely be coming up with something in the next few days or so...
> 
> HM, is there a chance you could compile the character creation rules in a single location so I needn't search through 8 pages of discussion/debate on what is entailed?




http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/271814-pantheon-grey-mist.html#post5084365

post 2 are upto date if im not totaly wrong


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## Rathan (Feb 13, 2010)

Holy Man said:
			
		

> Rathan:
> 
> Synergy bonuses-
> +8 Diplomacy
> ...




Fixed...


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 13, 2010)

So, you then admit that Magic Immunity IS broken? Haha  I win either way  Don't worry, i've removed it. Added Greater Teleport to fix her early logistics problem.

BTW do you all like my sheet? I spent a lot of time perfecting this format in several games, and with all the sblocks hiding the different parts (feats, skills, spells etc.) i think it's really organized and easy to use, perfect for giant sheets like these. Feel free to use it and modify.


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## Theroc (Feb 13, 2010)

Sunking said:


> http://www.enworld.org/forum/plots-places/271814-pantheon-grey-mist.html#post5084365
> 
> post 2 are upto date if im not totaly wrong




Ah, thanks for that, I was looking for such a compilation in THIS thread, hence my confusion.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 13, 2010)

At least she should have magic domain to have magic immunity. 

And about the special traits, as originaly posted by me, it's to buy special abilities from here:
Special Abilities :: d20srd.org 
These are special abilities, not everything you can take from monsters. So the most similar to magic immunity would be:


> Spell Immunity
> 
> A creature with spell immunity avoids the effects of spells and spell-like abilities that directly affect it. This works exactly like spell resistance, except that it cannot be overcome. Sometimes spell immunity is conditional or applies to only spells of a certain kind or level. Spells that do not allow spell resistance are not affected by spell immunity.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 13, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> So, you then admit that Magic Immunity IS broken? Haha  I win either way  Don't worry, i've removed it. Added Greater Teleport to fix her early logistics problem.
> 
> BTW do you all like my sheet? I spent a lot of time perfecting this format in several games, and with all the sblocks hiding the different parts (feats, skills, spells etc.) i think it's really organized and easy to use, perfect for giant sheets like these. Feel free to use it and modify.




Hah! Your posting speed is unmatched señorita. I'll take a look at the sheet.


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## Theroc (Feb 13, 2010)

I'll probably be doing something with a more melee bent, since it seems everyone is focusing on more magical type stuff.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 13, 2010)

Um well i did change it but didn't save because i was choosing an epic feat. I got Epic Spell Penetration. Now all should be good with my sheet.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 13, 2010)

Nice character sheet MyL. Very organized and easy to follow. No visible mistake I could see.

Glasseye: I think you have the size modifiers wrong. Not sure how, but I think its Str +8 Dex -2  Con +4


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## Theroc (Feb 13, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> And about the special traits, as originaly posted by me, it's to buy special abilities from here:
> Special Abilities :: d20srd.org
> These are special abilities, not everything you can take from monsters. So the most similar to magic immunity would be:




So, I could pay for regeneration.  But, I would need to determine the specifics of the regeneration?  Most of those special abilities are left vague for a statblock writeup to fill in... so for those, how are the variables/conditionals determined?


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## GlassEye (Feb 13, 2010)

Theroc said:


> I'll probably be doing something with a more melee bent, since it seems everyone is focusing on more magical type stuff.




My character is a sort of melee character.  She definitely has fewer magic abilities than everyone else.  I figure as a grim reaper sort she needs decent melee.  That in no way means you can't do a melee oriented deity, of course.  I look forward to seeing what you come up with.



Voda Vosa said:


> Glasseye: I think you have the size modifiers wrong. Not sure how, but I think its Str +8 Dex -2  Con +4




I used those size modifiers to begin with but then I noticed the character creation rules were slightly different than the normal and I changed my sheet.  I still have a lot to do to finish the character.  This is a fairly complex character for me (I've not played a character past 7th level yet, it is a bit outside my experience level) so it's taking me a while to work everything out.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 14, 2010)

Theroc said:


> So, I could pay for regeneration.  But, I would need to determine the specifics of the regeneration?  Most of those special abilities are left vague for a statblock writeup to fill in... so for those, how are the variables/conditionals determined?




I think it would be a case to case basis with the DM. Like fast healing. It's set at 5 per special trait point. 

Like Spell immunity, perhaps it should take one point per level of immunity. So a SI to level 5 would take 5 special tratis, and a SI to level 9, 9 points.


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## Theroc (Feb 14, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> My character is a sort of melee character.  She definitely has fewer magic abilities than everyone else.  I figure as a grim reaper sort she needs decent melee.  That in no way means you can't do a melee oriented deity, of course.  I look forward to seeing what you come up with.





I was thinking more... Ares; God of War... than a grim reaper.

Glory in battle and the like.  Probably some sort of Paladin-ish thing.  Not quite berserker.


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## Roman (Feb 14, 2010)

Theroc said:


> I was thinking more... Ares; God of War... than a grim reaper.
> 
> Glory in battle and the like.  Probably some sort of Paladin-ish thing.  Not quite berserker.




Nice! That is similar to one of the concepts I am still considering and your choice makes my choice easier in order to avoid duplication.  

I will, therefore, likely go for a God of Time.  

In any case, the most appropriate class for a God of Time would probably be the Wizard, but the Alter Reality SDA seems to make that class (and the Sorceror and the Cleric and...) essentially entirely redundant unless the rest requirement applies after every use. Or am I missing something?


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 14, 2010)

Roman said:


> I will, therefore, likely go for a God of Time.




I like your your idea of a god of time, so I'm assuming lawful, but I had an idea for a god of constructs just kicking around in my head so if you want to you could take constructs into your portfolio and become a clockwork god. Think on the lines of this sort of perfectly sculpted statue but some pieces are missing and underneath you could see moving gears and the like, kind of like the Inevetables.

This is just an idea though, take it if you want it.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 14, 2010)

I picture your world as Mechanus =)


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## GlassEye (Feb 14, 2010)

I've been looking all over, quite unsuccessfully, for damage for natural attacks.  What would damage be for slam and stinger attacks for a large creature?


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 14, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> I've been looking all over, quite unsuccessfully, for damage for natural attacks. What would damage be for slam and stinger attacks for a large creature?




In the Montser Manual (pg 296 ) there is a chart for size changes: slam 1d8 and sting 1d6

hope that helps


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## GlassEye (Feb 14, 2010)

Thanks.  Now I'm off to get new glasses.


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## Sunking (Feb 15, 2010)

after the Divine Salient Ability: alter reality was mentioned i look over all of the DSA´s and found it was the only broken in my opinion (if anybody have another opinion just come with it so we can look at it now)

My sygestion

alter reality requirs divine rank 11. its just to powerfull to lesser gods.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 15, 2010)

I think that is a good suggestion. Although I can mention that if one takes Luck domain, you got access to the Wish spell at will....


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## Sunking (Feb 15, 2010)

bugger hadent thought of that...

well it aint as bad since it's still gonna cost xp, and we only have X number of free xp to use each week but a little alarming yes.

Luckly we have none aspering for that domain yet if im not mistaken (pun-pun intendet)


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## Rathan (Feb 15, 2010)

Guys.... alter reality is NOT that bad...... now... It WOULD be if you didn't have the rest times etc.... but basically it allows you to cast any spell with no more skill or grace that a wizard and sorcerer.... Most of the abilities are temporary... and can only be made permanent with huge wait times..... then the God or Goddess has to wait DAYS to recover...... this SDA is NOT broken and I plan on taking it in fact.... I will not hide my bias on this... there are very few SDA's that fit my character concept.. I would like it if you would not thin my list even further than it already is.... If you have a level headed PC on your hands he/she will not abuse this SDA.

You have to realize here we're not playing 20th level characters... nor epic characters... we are playing GODS and GODDESSES.... we are supposed to be that powerful!... And with power comes responsibility.... if we do something cheesy or too powerful.... then there should be IC repercussions for a Gods actions... that's what the game is all about.... cause and effect in making a new world!


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 15, 2010)

Speaking of the game. When do we start? I'm growing impatient. At least the RP grey mist or whatever!


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## Roman (Feb 15, 2010)

Sunking said:


> after the Divine Salient Ability: alter reality was mentioned i look over all of the DSA´s and found it was the only broken in my opinion (if anybody have another opinion just come with it so we can look at it now)
> 
> My sygestion
> 
> alter reality requirs divine rank 11. its just to powerfull to lesser gods.




Yes, it is awesomely powerful. I would even go further in fixing it than you. See my suggestion at the end of this post. 



Voda Vosa said:


> I think that is a good suggestion. Although I can mention that if one takes Luck domain, you got access to the Wish spell at will....




True, but as Sunking pointed out, there is an XP cost to casting the Wish spell unlike Alter Reality, which not only does not cost XP to duplicate normal spells, but also obviates the need for XP when you are duplicating spells that would normally have an XP cost... including the Wish... Alter Reality also removes the need for any material components. 

Furthermore, Wish can only duplicate wizard/sorcerer spells of 8th level or lower, whereas Alter Reality can duplicate 9th level spells. On top of that, wish can only duplicate Cleric, Druid and other spells of 6th level or lower, while Alter Reality can duplicate 9th level spells from these and all other classes too. Heck, it even allows the usage of all metamagic feats for free - without even any need to take them. 



Rathan said:


> Guys.... alter reality is NOT that bad...... now... It WOULD be if you didn't have the rest times etc.... but basically it allows you to cast any spell with no more skill or grace that a wizard and sorcerer.... Most of the abilities are temporary... and can only be made permanent with huge wait times..... then the God or Goddess has to wait DAYS to recover...... this SDA is NOT broken and I plan on taking it in fact.... I will not hide my bias on this... there are very few SDA's that fit my character concept.. I would like it if you would not thin my list even further than it already is.... If you have a level headed PC on your hands he/she will not abuse this SDA.
> 
> You have to realize here we're not playing 20th level characters... nor epic characters... we are playing GODS and GODDESSES.... we are supposed to be that powerful!... And with power comes responsibility.... if we do something cheesy or too powerful.... then there should be IC repercussions for a Gods actions... that's what the game is all about.... cause and effect in making a new world!




Don't get me wrong, I think Alter Reality is a very cool ability and its flavor also fits many of the godlings we are creating. I also agree that we are supposed to be extremely powerful. The problem is that it makes taking levels in Wizard, Sorceror, Cleric (and Psion if Psionics is used) completely redundant (Druid only partially redundant, since he also has wildshape apart from spells) - it utterly and completely duplicates all of the main abilities, all spells, of all these classes. Unless, of course, I am missing something in the description of the SDA. 

Here is my suggestion. Let's modify the Alter Reality SDA as follows: 

Requirements: Charisma 29 (unchanged from original requirements), Divine Spellcasting SDA, Spontaneous Wizard Spells SDA, Divine Rank 16 (this is a power of greater gods) 
Description: As in the Deities & Demigods book, but the ability does not obviate the need for paying XP and material costs. Also, application of metamagic feats requires that the character possess the feats to be applied. 

(Notes: Divine Spellcasting SDA requires spellcaster level 20 and Spontaneous Wizard Spells grants/makes all Wizard spells castable spontaneously [but wizards still need the levels and intelligence to cast them], so I think these are really appropriate pre-requisites for the Alter Reality SDA) 

As described above, I think the Alter Reality SDA would no longer remove the need to take spellcaster levels (be they wizard, sorcerer, cleric or druid… or even psion), would retain its flavor and no longer be overpowered compared to other SDAs, yet still be very useful.


----------



## Theroc (Feb 15, 2010)

Hm... having trouble deciding on Traits for this god.  lol.  I actually have more traits than I know what to do with, it seems.


----------



## GlassEye (Feb 15, 2010)

Theroc said:


> Hm... having trouble deciding on Traits for this god.  lol.  I actually have more traits than I know what to do with, it seems.




Do you mean you want to buy more traits than you have points?  Or vice versa?  My problem was that I wanted several traits and felt I needed to spend a lot of trait points to improve ability scores also.  With charisma being a prime stat because of all the divine charisma bonuses added to saves, etc., I just didn't have enough to do all I wanted.


----------



## Sunking (Feb 15, 2010)

---
from now on when i speak on matters as co-dm it will be in purple so you can se if it official or just my personal oppinion in the discusion
---



Roman said:


> Here is my suggestion. Let's modify the Alter Reality SDA as follows:
> 
> Requirements: Charisma 29 (unchanged from original requirements), Divine Spellcasting SDA, Arcane Mastery SDA, Divine Rank 16 (this is a power of greater gods)
> Description: As in the Deities & Demigods book, but the ability does not obviate the need for paying XP and material costs. Also, application of metamagic feats requires that the character possess the feats to be applied.
> ...




Ill second that suggestion since that also was my biggest problem with it...

yes we are all gods and all powerfull but the DMG also states that if somthing is that good that evryone wanna take it its to good, and alter reality is that good.


----------



## Theroc (Feb 15, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Do you mean you want to buy more traits than you have points?  Or vice versa?  My problem was that I wanted several traits and felt I needed to spend a lot of trait points to improve ability scores also.  With charisma being a prime stat because of all the divine charisma bonuses added to saves, etc., I just didn't have enough to do all I wanted.





Ohsnap, did not notice I could use trait points to increase ability scores. Nevermind, I'll definitely be able to find places to use trait points.


----------



## Frozen Messiah (Feb 15, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Speaking of the game. When do we start? I'm growing impatient. At least the RP grey mist or whatever!




I know how you feel VV, I submitted my character a day or 2 after yours. First in, longest wait I geuss. I have my character sheet ready enough to play (sorcerer spells can be chosen quickly, we don't have salient abilities yet) except for equipment. That is what I think his holding back this game, not having a system to get equipment.

There is still a lot of give and taking going on about SDAs but that really shouldn't matter at this point because, yes some are more powerful than te others but I think we should face that problem when we get to it. Rathan had the right idea when he said there should be in game consequences to it, because in my mind there are 2 things you should never wantonly screw with: Time and Reality.


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

I am about to post my concept. I would welcome any suggestions, thoughts and comments.


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

*Chrextes: The God of Time *

The God of Time is full of paradoxes. He could be said to have always and simultaneously never existed both within and outside of time. He has provided a sense of teleological direction to countless worlds, yet thrown countless others into endless repeating cycles. 

Knowing precisely the timelines of each of these worlds and seeing worlds endbefore they even began, the God of Time mused on how to avoid the inherent predictability his status afforded him. His decision was to isolate an aspect of himself and throw it into the grey leaving it to wander both inside and outside the timestream to find other divine creator minds and create a joint worlds, but ones where time would still flow. 

*Home Plane: Chronaeria *

Chrextes travels on a plane called Chronaeria. Chronaeria is a world where time streams meet and interact with wondrous effects. Parts of the dimension are locked in eternal cycles, where only an outside disturbance would break an ever-repeating pattern that ticks like clockwork. Other sections have directional time, but one that flows at various speeds or even in different direction. A travellers standing at the boundary would best be careful, lest he soon find himself with legs of a neonate, yet the head of a whizened old man. 

The plane is dotted with portals leading not merely to geographical spaces, but to the past, the future and alternative realities. 

Chrextes dwells in a vast citadel that is always part pristine, part ruined, part assembled, part under demolition and part under construction. An armada of constructs perpetually hoists new arches into the air to complete the project, but as new timestreams emerge from within, time sometimes reverses, so a portion of them always works backwards. While some parts remain preserved without blemish for aeons, tther sections of the citadel decay at visibly alarming speed. 

Time fluxes unbound on Chronaeria, but Chrextes ensures that only one time stream exits the planar dimension for each material plane, for the interaction of multiple time streams would not be conductive to their development. 

*Worshippers: Shapeshifters and Very Long Lived or Immortal Races *

Note on shapeshifters: Shapeshifters accept that time is inexorable and change inevitable, so they change with it. 

*Alignment: * I would say True Neutral. Time on the Prime Material Plane is inexorable and regular, but it also affects change, sometimes change that is not easily predictable. 

Domains: Time, Transformation, hmm, I am not completely sure – still have to think on these, apart from Time – that one is obvious… 

*Godly/Monstrous Traits: *

Blink (as from blink dog): Chrextes is only partially present in the current time stream 

(Note: I am still searching through the monster manual for appropriate traits… this was just the first appropriate one I came across and reflavored.)


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

** Me being silly**


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Sunking said:


> ---
> from now on when i speak on matters as co-dm it will be in purple so you can se if it official or just my personal oppinion in the discusion
> ---




Good idea! 



> Ill second that suggestion since that also was my biggest problem with it...
> 
> yes we are all gods and all powerfull but the DMG also states that if somthing is that good that evryone wanna take it its to good, and alter reality is that good.




Thanks!


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

As I told Mith and Legend before, you should look Here for special abilities.

As for domains, I think Law is in "order"  And perhaps Chaos as well, as he represents both aspects of time, and the linkage between both chaos and order. 

As for Traits I'll suggest:
Etherealness
Alternate Form
Incorporeality
Construct SubType

Spell: Time Stop
Spell: Some teleportation spells
Spell: Some divination spells

Of course the spells would depend on what domains you chose.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

As I posted earlier on in this thread having a very rules heavy system is NOT conducive to playing all powerful Gods and Goddesses. It restricts the restrict-less guys. If I wanted to play a game where I was an epic character, there are rules for that. If I wanted to play a 1st level wizard, there are rules for that, however we are playing Gods and Goddesses... and there are indeed rules for that here that we've decided on using here as a whole. To restrict and or deny parts of these rules is no more or less restricting than having a too rules heavy system to begin with. In fact it's ADDING more and more rules to the already rules heavy system. I'm getting more than a little frustrated here, it seems every time I settle on a concept that fits my character (And I mean fits it. I could care less if it's power cheese because I don't power cheese even if I have the ability to do so, just not my style), it seems to be either nerfed or taken away completely. 

In reality, the rest times, and the ability to make objects with Alter Reality temporary is what makes it not as OMG powerful as you all are thinking. To be honest with you, a GOD should know how to cast all the spells of 9th level or lower. They ARE the shining example that most mortal beings aspire to be after all. It's a divine GOD like ability for a reason. It's up to us as players to not abuse it, and if we do there should be repercussions for doing so. I just feel with each passing day that we are not making Gods and Goddesses, we're making nerfed deities because no one can be trusted not to abuse a power. It's there for a reason and written for a reason, if we're going to use part of an already written system, then lets use it and not nerf things, especially if people are planning to use them in a character concept. 

I was really excited when I first started making this character and really looking forward to the game as a whole, but my enthusiasm for which is slowly being drained daily as more and more changes come about because this and that and this is too powerful and cheese. We're SUPPOSED to be all powerful. This is a God and Goddess game, and I feel people are loosing sight of this fact and are more worried about the mechanics than playing all powerful beings and having fun doing so.

If we're going to nerf this SDA then I suggest we get more bang for our buck with the Special Trait Points. Perhaps getting two spell likes for each STP spent (using the same level restrictions of course 0-3 at will, 4-7 3/day, or 8-9 1/day respectively) 

EDIT: Using my personal character build really as an example, there is not really much my Goddess is good at besides casting spells. She's feats heavy (which mainly are based on casting my spell likes), she's certainly no combat monkey... etc... She casts spells really good, so perhaps if we're going to nerf the one really good spellcasting SDA to take at low DR, then perhaps we can compensate but getting more spell-like bang for our buck so to speak?

*steps down off his soapbox and shuts up*


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> As I told Mith and Legend before, you should look Here for special abilities.
> 
> As for domains, I think Law is in "order"  And perhaps Chaos as well, as he represents both aspects of time, and the linkage between both chaos and order.
> 
> ...




Nice ideas and a superb link. Thanks!


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> As I posted earlier on in this thread having a very rules heavy system is NOT conducive to playing all powerful Gods and Goddesses.... it restricts the restrict-less guys...




That may be so, but it was decided to go this route, so we should try to make it as effective as feasible within the paradigm that has been chosen. 



> In reality... the rest times, and the ability to make objects with Alter Reality temporary is what makes it not as OMG powerful as you all are thinking.... to be honest with you.. a GOD should know how to cast all the spells of 9th level or lower... they ARE the shining example that most mortal beings aspire to be after all... It's a divine GOD like ability for a reason.... it's up to us as players to not abuse it... and if we do there should be repercussions for doing so.... I just feel with each passing day that we are not making Gods and Goddesses.. we're making nerfed deities because no one can be trusted not to abuse a power.... it's there for a reason and written for a reason.... if we're going to use part of an already written system... then lets use it and not nerf things... especially if people are planning to use them in a character concept....




The way I read it, the rest times don't apply at all unless a permanent effect is being created, so the problem remains. 

I agree that the ability is cool, but consider that we are starting as godlings and are also taking class levels. These class levels for all spellcasters are made entirely useless by one ability. That may be fine in a game where class levels don't exist, because they are simply irrelevant, but that is clearly not the case here. 



> I was really excited when I first started making this character and really looking forward to the game as a whole... but my enthusiasm for which is slowly being drained daily as more and more changes come about because this and that and this is too powerful and cheese.... we're SUPPOSED to be all powerful... this is a God and Goddess game.. and I feel people are loosing sight of this fact and are more worried about the mechanics than playing all powerful beings and having fun doing so...
> 
> If we're going to nerf this SDA then I suggest we get more bang for our buck with the Special Trait Points... perhaps getting two spell likes for each STP spent (using the same level restrictions of course 0-3 at will, 4-7 3/day, or 8-9 1/day respectively)
> 
> ...




But the Alter Reality SDA is not really nerfed! The thing that has mostly changed is requirements. You can still take it, but you need to get other SDAs (which are, incidently, also useful for spellcasting) first to qualify. Beyond that, you will need to pay the XP costs of using the ability to emulate spells that have XP costs, but this is not a huge deal, since gods have a cushion of 30,000 XP per week for such uses and most spells don't cost any XP anyway so no need to spend even from the cushion for those. Also, as a spellcaster, you will likely be taking metamagic feats anyway, so you will be able to apply them. 

I mean a God of Time is also likely to be a spellcaster rather than a warrior, so through my suggestions I am also 'nerfing' myself so to speak. But worry not, ultimately, we can still achieve that alter reality power - just not immediately!  

If we were not gaining class levels and started out as major deities of the world right away, something like Alter Reality would be appropriate immediately. But given the fact that the mechanics of class advancement are being used - Alter Reality should not be removed - just slightly modified - mostly in requirements.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> As I posted earlier on in this thread having a very rules heavy system is NOT conducive to playing all powerful Gods and Goddesses. It restricts the restrict-less guys. If I wanted to play a game where I was an epic character, there are rules for that. If I wanted to play a 1st level wizard, there are rules for that, however we are playing Gods and Goddesses... and there are indeed rules for that here that we've decided on using here as a whole. To restrict and or deny parts of these rules is no more or less restricting than having a too rules heavy system to begin with. In fact it's ADDING more and more rules to the already rules heavy system. I'm getting more than a little frustrated here, it seems every time I settle on a concept that fits my character (And I mean fits it. I could care less if it's power cheese because I don't power cheese even if I have the ability to do so, just not my style), it seems to be either nerfed or taken away completely.
> 
> In reality, the rest times, and the ability to make objects with Alter Reality temporary is what makes it not as OMG powerful as you all are thinking. To be honest with you, a GOD should know how to cast all the spells of 9th level or lower. They ARE the shining example that most mortal beings aspire to be after all. It's a divine GOD like ability for a reason. It's up to us as players to not abuse it, and if we do there should be repercussions for doing so. I just feel with each passing day that we are not making Gods and Goddesses, we're making nerfed deities because no one can be trusted not to abuse a power. It's there for a reason and written for a reason, if we're going to use part of an already written system, then lets use it and not nerf things, especially if people are planning to use them in a character concept.
> 
> ...




I have to agree with this, as I said, someone who gets Wish could do that, and with epic eschew materials (or something like that) he doesn't have to pay gold or XP to cast spells.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 16, 2010)

Nice god, I think there are interesting roleplaying opprotunities between many of the gods. A god of death and a god of time, a god of madness and a god of order, a god of sun and the nuturing nature of heat and a god of fire and the destructive nature of heat, all and all some interesting combination


If there is need for more abilities Roman:

- Since you already took blink as an abilitiy why not take a few of these hard to hit abilities all related to his placment in multiple time streams(displacment, blur...)

- Haste would probably fit the bill

- Some form of pertirfication/hold person, it would be as if he halts time for that specific person

other than that maybe some al of the sugestions that VV made are good to.


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> Nice god, I think there are interesting roleplaying opprotunities between many of the gods. A god of death and a god of time, a god of madness and a god of order, a god of sun and the nuturing nature of heat and a god of fire and the destructive nature of heat, all and all some interesting combination
> 
> 
> If there is need for more abilities Roman:
> ...




Thanks for the extra ideas. I always welcome them!


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

Why DO we have class levels anyways? I've been wondering that for a while now. It feels... out of place really unless we made characters out all class levels and what such and just ascended to godhood or something like that. As it stands now it just feels like something taped to a rules set if you know what I mean


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Perhaps I don't understand the question, but I think we are supposed to progress in the classes, as to founders of each particular class. 
You can think it's just when the god characters got interested in creating things that they took a path like the one of the druid, or wizard, as to a particular focus to its flavour. Like you said your character is good at casting spells, hence she'll be a sorceress for example, and as she gains levels she'll be THE sorceress, then one all sorceress look at and want to be her. But for the moment, you have to create those sorceresses.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Heh, I can't avoid to feel like those priests in the churches, preaching nonsenses with metaphors.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

Only one problem with that VV... I'm not the only sorcerer being played here.. *winks* again.... doesn't make much sense....


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Note: I think a wish is not even close to the ability of the original Alter Reality SDA. Epic Eschew Materials obviating the need for XP and material components does not exist to the best of my knowledge and wish cannot duplicate higher than 6th spells from non-wizard/sorcerer spell lists (and only 8th level spells from the wizard/sorcerer spell list). It also does not allow the free addition of any and all metamagic feats regardless of if the caster has them or not. Hence, even if a wish were castable at will, it would pale in comparison to the power of the original Alter Reality SDA. That's not to say that an ability like that is bad - as I said, I like it... a lot - it does give off the divine "I can do almost anything" vibe that is appropriate, but since we are playing with classes as well - I just think it would be appropriate to give it additional requirements and reduce some of the freebies... I still think the ability should be take-able. I mean, this SDA does what a combination of other SDAs (Arcane Mastery, Spontaneous Wizard Spells, Divine Spellcasting) don't come close to doing even in combination with full spellcaster levels. Hence, I think it only makes sense that they be the pre-requisites for taking this SDA. 

Anyway, how about this as an SDA instead Alter Reality (which could still be kept in addition to this, but with the added requirements): 

*Alter Portfolio * 
Requirements: Charisma 29 
Description: As the original Alter Reality, but applies only to spells with a spell descriptor appropriate to the portfolio (let's say 2 per god). Hence, for example, the lava portfolio would grant original Alter Reality for all spells that have the fire and/or earth descriptors.


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> Why DO we have class levels anyways? I've been wondering that for a while now. It feels... out of place really unless we made characters out all class levels and what such and just ascended to godhood or something like that. As it stands now it just feels like something taped to a rules set if you know what I mean






Voda Vosa said:


> Perhaps I don't understand the question, but I think we are supposed to progress in the classes, as to founders of each particular class.
> You can think it's just when the god characters got interested in creating things that they took a path like the one of the druid, or wizard, as to a particular focus to its flavour. Like you said your character is good at casting spells, hence she'll be a sorceress for example, and as she gains levels she'll be THE sorceress, then one all sorceress look at and want to be her. But for the moment, you have to create those sorceresses.




I am not completely sure why we have class levels, but I think Voda Vosa probably got the right idea. So your character could progress as the first sorceress, gain all the spellcasting-related SDAs and ultimately finish off the progression at its pinnacle with the Alter Reality SDA. At least that's how I would imagine it would work in a classed system. 

In a classes system, it would be sort of perverse if one could take the Alter Reality SDA right away - would make all of those subsequent spellcaster levels and spellcasting SDAs pointless. In a system where gods are so far above normal that classes don't apply, of course, Alter Reality would make sense right from the start.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

Actually he's 100% correct Roman... there is an epic feat called Ignore Material Components that allows you cast spells with no XP cost or material component at all...


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Holy man, where the hell are you? 

At this moment we need him to tell "Yes" or "No" to many things.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Of course I'm right, I'm always right!


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

Roman said:
			
		

> Alter Portfolio
> Requirements: Charisma 29
> Description: As the original Alter Reality, but applies only to spells with a spell descriptor appropriate to the portfolio (let's say 2 per god). Hence, for example, the lava portfolio would grant original Alter Reality for all spells that have the fire and/or earth descriptors.




I like this alternative suggestion actually.... it seems more fair and makes it customizable to each God or Goddesses concept... I second it...


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

For your viewing pleasure:

Ignore Material Components [Epic]
Prerequisites

Eschew Materials, Spellcraft 25 ranks, ability to cast 9th-level arcane or divine spells.
Benefit

You may cast spells without any material components. This feat does not affect the need for a focus or divine focus.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 16, 2010)

Yes, I took sorcerer but it was more of for these 2 factors: Wanting to cast arcane spells and do so without need for a spellbook and all of those trappings.

Along that train of thought, I would jump at the chance to go Warlock if the option was presented to me . Seriously though, if no one has any problems with that I can post he class so everyone could see it. I think it would be the best for my character.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

I wasn't diss'ing your choice FM.. and for the record I LOVE locks heh... however I'm pretty sure they wanted to leave this... mostly.. an SRD only game... you can post it.. but I doubt it'll get approved heh...


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

For me, go all the warlock you want, although I think HM does not have access to that. However you could send a copy of the pages of the manual where the description is given, or just make it, and we'll bully him. =)


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> For your viewing pleasure:
> 
> Ignore Material Components [Epic]
> Prerequisites
> ...




Well, my appologies, I stand corrected on this. Is there also a similar feat getting rid of XP costs?


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> Yes, I took sorcerer but it was more of for these 2 factors: Wanting to cast arcane spells and do so without need for a spellbook and all of those trappings.
> 
> Along that train of thought, I would jump at the chance to go Warlock if the option was presented to me . Seriously though, if no one has any problems with that I can post he class so everyone could see it. I think it would be the best for my character.






Rathan said:


> I wasn't diss'ing your choice FM.. and for the record I LOVE locks heh... however I'm pretty sure they wanted to leave this... mostly.. an SRD only game... you can post it.. but I doubt it'll get approved heh...






Voda Vosa said:


> For me, go all the warlock you want, although I think HM does not have access to that. However you could send a copy of the pages of the manual where the description is given, or just make it, and we'll bully him. =)




HM wanted to keep it to SRD only, but I must say that I too like the idea that everybody would have a different class and be sort of the 'founder' of the class as well as its master/pinnacle. It seems flavorful and I believe the only duplication so far is in Sorcerors, so if HM agrees to the Warlock, I would definitely vote for you being able to take it.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Ah Wattson, you got me on that. No, as it is it appears you must pay the XP one way or the other.


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> I like this alternative suggestion actually.... it seems more fair and makes it customizable to each God or Goddesses concept... I second it...




I am glad you like it.  It does keep the Alter Reality SDA at full power, but limits its scope to the portfolio of the god in question, so it does not eliminate an entire category of classes (spellcasters). 

In fact, if the DM's allow it, I would suggest we should all eventually take it for our respective portfolios to represent the power we hold over them. The only problem I can forsee might be that some portfolios might not have appropriate spell descriptors.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> I wasn't diss'ing your choice FM.. and for the record I LOVE locks heh... however I'm pretty sure they wanted to leave this... mostly.. an SRD only game... you can post it.. but I doubt it'll get approved heh...




I know you weren't saying anything about my choice, I just see an opprotunity and jump at it and judging that we are using a third party system anyways so it may not be so far ot of line, but iwill be waiting for HM's call or Sunking


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

As for the portfolios, I think each of the submitted gods have portfolios that at least match many spells. However, people could arrange them in a set order, for example, 9 words, first three more important, second 3 less and 3 lesser, in order to assure a good alotment of spells (with the first 3 which will find many descriptors hopefully), and the flavour of a nice portfolio at the same time =)

Take Rathan's character for example, perhaps earthquakes is not something you'll find in many spells (just in Earthquake!), nor lava. But Fire destruction and Evil (combining Hatred and Revenge) will surely get you access to tons of spells. 

I'm just thinking out loud here though.


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> As for the portfolios, I think each of the submitted gods have portfolios that at least match many spells. However, people could arrange them in a set order, for example, 9 words, first three more important, second 3 less and 3 lesser, in order to assure a good alotment of spells (with the first 3 which will find many descriptors hopefully), and the flavour of a nice portfolio at the same time =)
> 
> Take Rathan's character for example, perhaps earthquakes is not something you'll find in many spells (just in Earthquake!), nor lava. But Fire destruction and Evil (combining Hatred and Revenge) will surely get you access to tons of spells.
> 
> I'm just thinking out loud here though.




This is good thinking. Also, I just used 2 descriptors as an example - it could certainly be more (just not all, lol). Lavaria could indeed, for example, get fire, earth (lava) and evil, as you mention or some others that Rathan thinks are appropriate.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

I think allowing us to cast or domain spells at full caster level instead of the 10+ DR would solve the problem simply and nicely.... that way it has nothing to do with portfolios at all 

just my opinion though.... seeing as how was can cast them at will... it narrows what we can cast as a mechanic already.... just giving them to us at 20 + DR would make me very happy and solve the need for creating more rules


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Holy man, where the hell are you?
> 
> At this moment we need him to tell "Yes" or "No" to many things.




Sorry gang I am around now and thank the gods (all of you??) I am off the next two days so we will get this world rolling.

Now that my gf is in bed I can finish posting but when I started my copy/paste sheet you all were on page 9 so I may need time to catch up and I have XP to hand out. Ok for now know I am here the next hour or two and I have been trying to keep up you all have been so busy.  

Ok try and ask your questions again if you please and I will answer some of the ones I started below:

*COPY>PASTE*


My trouble here is finding encounters (combat or otherwise) that won't be solved by a single action or the same single action everytime.

Immunity: A creature that has immunity to an effect is never harmed (or helped) by that effect. A creature cannot suppress an immunity in order to recieve a beneficial effect. (MM pg.310) So I would go so far as to say "magical" items would not be beneficial either.

We will be playing DSA's as is for now I really don't want to go through and change everything before hand, I can always find a way to limit/take away anything (I am playing the most powerful deity in the game.) So we keep it open and we will cross all bridges as we come to them.

Note: On starting equipment- everyone starts with their favored weapon only (max vaule = 128,000gp) left over gp will be used for bonus items I will hand out in game. So really you have 128k to spend on one weapon and if you let's say spend all but 2,000gp of it I may give you (or have you find) a ring of protection +1. 

Ok will be back

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

Weapon up for approval:

+4 Anarchic Flaming Longbow of Distance (128,000 gp)


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## GlassEye (Feb 16, 2010)

Just wanted to say Alter Reality is really nice but doesn't make spellcasting levels 'pointless'.  It can't create permanent magic items nor does it allow one to cast metamagicked spells without an immediate rest.

As for the oddity of having classes at level 1, it _is_ odd when taken in consideration with some of the histories and portfolios that we have.  It works ok for my character who has a level of Horizon Walker with Terrain Mastery: Mountains.  After all, she hangs out in her own little dimension scurrying up and down the walls of the Black Chasm.  One level is enough for her.  It's a wee bit unfair for the spellcasters; no access to Archmage, Eldritch Knight, Hierophant, Loremaster, Mystic Theurge, or Thaumaturgist because the prerequisite spellcasting cannot be met at this level.  If we weren't so far along I would suggest 10 HD of Outsider and 10 class levels plus one level that could be an Outsider or class level.


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> Weapon up for approval:
> 
> +4 Anarchic Flaming Longbow of Distance (128,000 gp)





Looks good and I think to make it easy we will forgo the cost of the weapon (unless it would be like a comp longbow STR +8 or something like that).

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

As her str is 10..... don't think that will be happening heh..... it's as it says


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2010)

For the record I hate Warlocks, not that I think they are broken (they are slightly more powerful than other classes), I just think they are boring. Which leads me to this:

Standard classes:
Barbarian
Bard - Helsilllyel
Cleric
Druid - The One and the Many
Fighter
Monk
Paladin
Ranger
Rogue
Sorcerer - Lavaria and Duretep
Wizard

And others I don't know off had. Also I need to ask because this is you all's game also but Would you all like to be the only Gods in the new world pantheon ( I think we have 8 players) or would you like me to round out with some NPCs??

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2010)

@ Roman your deity has a great background/ reason for being DR0 I would reward you with 100 XP but that is like saying here's a bonus 1 XP point for creativity if we were starting a Level 1 campaign lol 

Go ahead and put what you have in the RG so he will be easily found for review thanks.

HM


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## GlassEye (Feb 16, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> For the record I hate Warlocks, not that I think they are broken (they are slightly more powerful than other classes), I just think they are boring. Which leads me to this:
> 
> Standard classes:
> Barbarian
> ...




For the record, Ubariya's class level is Horizon Walker.  I like it; it seems to fit thematically ('Death walks all lands') but she is still very much a work in progress and I'm thinking of changing her class to rogue.  If anyone has any input on the matter feel free to let me know what you think about it.

I don't know about npc gods.  They could give you a way to introduce adventures (though I'm not sure what kinds of adventures gods have anyway) or otherwise influence events and the pc's.  I guess I don't mind them.  A way to keep them from coming into conflict with the pc's (too much anyway) and to put some of the work onto us players is to have us create heralds for our gods only playable by the DM.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 16, 2010)

Hmm very interesting. When i said: 







> Plus, we rare roleplaying GODS for crying out loud! Why are we starting at what is effectively level 1 for a God? If i wanted to be in another slow level 1 game i'd just join that. PbP is slooooooooooooowwwwwwwwww by the time we get 40 character levels the Internet will be gone :/ Especially if HM wants to run this as a regular game and award chunks of XP every 15 days. Why don't we start ad Divine Rank 6 and 20 Character levels at least? For the sake of simplicity? This will not be a simple game by any means.
> 
> For character growth? This is good, but we are not trembling farmboys and zealous Paladins. These are GODS, they have vast knowledge, power, they sense things in the future that are related to their portfolio etc. The way we roleplay them will not change, everyone will be doing their best to roleplay something we can never really comprehend (IRL at least i think none of you are Gods). Making the characters weaker does not make sense in a God campaign.



 Rathan your only reply was 







> If no one else will say it... I will and this is not to be rude... it's just the truth.... *either get on board with the hybrid rules the DM wants to go with... or get off at the next station...* and that's not just a comment for ML... but to anyone not happy with the DM's decision.... plain and simple...



 interesting when something does not concern you directly you tell me to shut up or get out, but when your concept is hurt suddenly we get a long winded post that basically repeats mine.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 16, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> For the record I hate Warlocks, not that I think they are broken (they are slightly more powerful than other classes), I just think they are boring. Which leads me to this:
> 
> Standard classes:
> Barbarian
> ...




Very well than, I geuss I am stuck as a sorcerer or I could switch him over to become a wilder.

I think that you have a very biased view of warlocks since they can come from any outsider, the abilities have easily changable fluff, and can vary from a psychotic mad man wo goes from town to town burning and destroying to a suave and sophisticated noble man who uses his powers subtly and sparingly but that is neither here no there.

Another issue that I see arises with that class list, the cleric. Nothing about the cleric means anything anymore due to at will domains, it makes much of what the cleric does moot. 

I think that we should start off with us being the only gods but after a while if we are lacking on some respect than we may add in a god who has heard of our new world and wishes to take his own stake in it.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 16, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> For the record, Ubariya's class level is Horizon Walker. I like it; it seems to fit thematically ('Death walks all lands') but she is still very much a work in progress and I'm thinking of changing her class to rogue. If anyone has any input on the matter feel free to let me know what you think about it.




I personally don't see your god of death as a sneaky sort. I see meditation, thinking on the mysterys of life, and contemplating hwere the s0ouls of her realm will be going. I think monk might be a good idea, but i don't know your character like you do but monks do have Hide/Move Silently so you can steal stealth if you want.

just my two cents on the matter, although i might do a little bit of tweaking of my character and go monk but that is not set in stone.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 16, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Hmm very interesting. When i said: Rathan your only reply was interesting when something does not concern you directly you tell me to shut up or get out, but when your concept is hurt suddenly we get a long winded post that basically repeats mine.





Alright, we are all frustrated/annoyed/competitive about how long it is taking to get this game going but there is no need to start attacking one another. We all have differing opinions about what is good/effective in D&D and what is not. The very nture of this is meant to be able to get along and play a game where we create a world together through cooperation, not bickering.

HM is back and he will be going over all of the things that we have been saying so things will be getting done, this was not meant to make you look bad Sunking but the fact of the matter is that you can't really do much in the way of allowing/disallowing things without consensus with HM. So can we call truce, so everyone will hold they're tongues if hey have nothing constructive to say and we can all get to start this game quicker.

This isn't just directed at you Myth but everyone here (and i include myself into this).

Let's just try to get along, or at least fake it really well.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

I do believe I'm going to ignore ML's comments before I have more to say here than I need to.... 

All I have to say ML, is this thread is not the place to take little pot shots at people. If you have issue with me, we have Private Messages for a reason. I'd be more than happy to speak with you there if there's something you'd like to discuss, beyond that please leave you're personal issues with me at the door so to speak please.

On a lighter note, I like the idea of a few other Gods or Goddesses to play off of that are NPC in nature. It also allows a bit more conflict without it being PC on PC conflict. It will also allow you to fill in some aspects of our world creation (or destruction in my case heh) that might be missing


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## Sunking (Feb 16, 2010)

first of the official

i cant seem to find your last 2 special ability spend Frozen



> *Str:* 12 +1 (2p.)(+2 trait[1])
> *Dex:* 14 +2 (6p.)
> *Con:* 14 +2 (6p.)
> *Int:* 16 +3 (6p.) (+2 level[1])
> ...




and secondly no badfeel i know i cant rule much before HM have carved me a rock saying thye commandmends, thats why i also mostly says things as my suggestion and oppinion (before going purple for official) becaus it wassent meant as rulings but my oppineion.

as for classes im Psion (the psionical eq of wiz) and im planning of going slayer (as if you diden't read in the BG) the later tacking some monk so at charekter lvl 50 (like if ever) im gonna lock somthing like this (if no big change commes) Outsider 20/Psion 20/ Slayer 10/ Monk 20 thats how i see sirion as a Greater God but lets see were this journy take us.

and frozen go wilder more psi in the world would be gooood.

as for other gods in the end its up to what you are planning, but my openion would be lets start as us (+ maybe max 1-2 npc gods) and the when its time later on bring fresh blod in or meed enemy gods!?!?

---

Don't know were to go with weapon so im trying this if its ok
Ki straps (grants the enchantment and abilitys to unarmed)
Ghost touch (+1), Bane Aberations (+1) and +5 enchantment 
All in all (+7) 98000 gp


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## Sunking (Feb 16, 2010)

And now for the rule and Math

Rathan: *Lavaria*

*Stats: V*

*Special abilitys: V*

*HD and HP: V*

*Skills and Skill points: V*

*Feats: V*

*Class and class ability: V (familiar?)*

*Other: none to speak off*

*Weapon: V*

*---*

*Voda Vosa: The one and the many*

*Stats: V*

*Special abilitys: V*

*HD and HP: should be 315 (think you are forgetting the druid D8+7)*

*Skills and Skill points: should be 212 total skill points (outsider 8+int X23 = 207 + druid 4+ int = 5 (207+5=212)) *

*Feats: V*

*Class and class ability: you havent chosen preparid spells yet (but thats might also be a little early)*

*Other: Need HM call about your swarm size the whole Dim-colosal thing*

*Weapon: Not checked yet*

*---*
*Sunking: Sirion*
*Wont check this one out *
*Stats: Not checked yet*

*Special abilitys: Not checked yet*

*HD and HP: Not checked yet*

*Skills and Skill points: Not checked yet*

*Feats: Not checked yet*

*Class and class ability: Not checked yet*

*Other: Not checked yet*

*Weapon: Not checked yet*

*---*
*Myth and Legend: Heliasillyel Nuevuyar*

*Stats: V*

*Special abilitys: V*

*HD and HP: V*

*Skills and Skill points: V*

*Feats: V*

*Class and class ability: V*

*Other: none to speak off*

*Weapon: Not checked yet*

*---*

*GlassEye: Ubariya*

*Stats: V*

*Special abilitys: V/you need to stade web as what??*

*HD and HP: V*

*Skills and Skill points: You need to use them  (-)*

*Feats: You need to use them  (-)*

*Class and class ability: V*

*Other: none to speak off*

*Weapon: Not checked yet*
*---*
*Frozen Messiah: Duretep*

*Stats: V*

*Special abilitys: Can only find 18 points buy out of 20 am i missing somthing (see post above)*

*HD and HP: should be 206 (think you are forgetting the sor D4+2)*

*Skills and Skill points: V*

*Feats: you can't take *Automatic Silent Spell since it requres ability to cast 9th lvl. spells and you only got 9th lvl abilitys, also supiror initiative is also a epic feat meaning you have take 2 were we only have one *(-)*

*Class and class ability: I can't seem to find your sorcer spell known (-)*

*Other: none to speak off*

*Weapon: Not checked yet*
*---*
*pleas let me know if you edit you god after this post*


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 16, 2010)

Well FM is right I acted childishly and I'm sorry you guys! I'll talk to Rathan in private, and won't bring up stuff like that here any more.

NPC Gods? Well this really depends, if HM thinks it will provide a better plot, than why not? Fact of the matter is, we are a very diverse group of beings as far as beliefs, powers and alignments are concerned. The only potential problem i can see is PCs allying with NPCs vs other PCs. For example, all the good Gods (some of which are NPCs) vs all the Evil ones (some of which are NPCs as well), instead of PCs vs NPCs.


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## Sunking (Feb 16, 2010)

im gonna suggest that a tread is made were we can roleplay until it begins for real

were: in the gray mist 
we have all answered the call and can introduse us self and specucalate about the great plan about it all (unless you have a grand opening planed HM) ofcourse no skill, spell or rule use in there.

So we can begin to interackt with one and other 

Why: becaus we cant wait for this ship to take of


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

So much to reply to...

HM: If you have problems finding a challenge and if to place or not NPC gods, perhaps a confrontation among gods for the right to create the world is in order. Perhaps another posibility is that at world creation, titans spawn from the primal forces that were used to create the planet, and must be dealt with before creation can began. 
Either of those two could lead to potentialy interesting quest, both linking the PCs against NPCs.

Glasseye: I like the horizon walker idea, I was thinking it myself. Alghouth a rouge could fit in nice too! 

MyL and Rathan: Make love not war. :O

Sunking: About the sizes: A swarm is considered made of tiny individuals. So I sent an additional point to make them diminutive. If HM rules against it, I'll send an additional point.

About Items: I don't picture a swarm holding a staff... Nor a shambling mound. Perhaps I could enhance the natural attacks? Not sure how to handle this.

I second the Grey mist thingy, because I can't wait too!


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## Sunking (Feb 16, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> So much to reply to...
> 
> Sunking: About the sizes: A swarm is considered made of tiny individuals. So I sent an additional point to make them diminutive. If HM rules against it, I'll send an additional point.
> 
> ...




it was mostly because you somwere in this tread asked if u should use diminutive or large modeficeres to swarm.

if the large part just goes to the shambling mound the no need for ruling and ill change it to a V


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> @ Roman your deity has a great background/ reason for being DR0 I would reward you with 100 XP but that is like saying here's a bonus 1 XP point for creativity if we were starting a Level 1 campaign lol
> 
> Go ahead and put what you have in the RG so he will be easily found for review thanks.




Thanks! I will add to RG, but stats will have to wait for a little longer, busy, busy, busy (oh, how control of time would be useful now!  )... 




HolyMan said:


> For the record I hate Warlocks, not that I think they are broken (they are slightly more powerful than other classes), I just think they are boring. Which leads me to this:
> 
> Standard classes:
> Barbarian
> ...




Well, I would imagine out of all classes, Wizard would probably be most appropriate for a God of Time. That said, given the unchanged Alter Reality thing, are we sure we want to continue having classes as well (I am not really worried about abuse, but it seems kind of pointless advancing in a class, when one ability takeable at 1st level essentially grants level 20 with infinite spellcasting in wizard, sorceror, cleric, druid [well, not entirely here, due to animal companions and wildshape] and depending on interpretation psion)? In such a situation wouldn't it make more sense to just dispense with the complication of classes altogether and just advance in Divine Ranks? Since we are going this route, dispensing with the classes might make it easier for you to create NPC godlings without having to go through building them in a complicated way adding classes and such - just take a 20 HD outsider and add some divine ranks plus salient divine abilities... 

Anyway, that brings me to your NPC question. I am not certain what would be better for several reasons. One reason is simply an issue of your time and workload - godlings if they are to be well executed, require a lot of thought and being high level a lot of creation time for the DM. If you think you have the time for that then great, but it would be unreasonable for us to expect it from you, I think. 

Myth and Legend also makes a good point about the possibility of internecine warfare with NPCs and PCs on both sides, which might work out fine, but it could also derail the game if it were allowed to run unchecked. 

I must say I like Voda Vosa's suggestion of Titans arising from the creation of the world. That would provide a common enemy for a group of godlings, even if they have very different portfolios and aims. 

Later on, perhaps other godlings could arrive from the grey mist, possibly even other PCs who join the game or perhaps NPCs if it were deemed suitable by you. Over time, the world could potentially face threats such as collission with another world drifting through the grey mist, so the godlings have to deflect or even destroy that world to avoid armageddon. 

The godlings have different agendas, which will provide for some bickering. That is inevitable and will be part of the roleplaying fun, but 'common challenges' once in a while are desirable in order to remind us that we are in it together after all!


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## HolyMan (Feb 16, 2010)

Ok the following is notes I am taking, and ideals/thoughts poping in my head, as I try and catch up. 

*THE GAME:*
This is from post one:







> You are all gods each of a different patheon and you are bored. Each of you in the past has made a world of your own, either a whole celestial body in the cosmos or just an out of the way plane that you use as a place to roam in material form.
> 
> But after ages of exploring, twiking, and even rebuilding it is time for something new. Hearing that other gods have the same feelings you all agree to meet in the Grey Mist, a neutral ground where you may only enter in spirit and only communicate with each other (no powers, attacking or other interaction is possible). You have come to the conculsion that a world made with every aspect of the Gods is intruging and you all now meeting to discuss it's creation.




What I wish to do with everyone's help is start a D&D world (a prime material plane), each god lives in a monotype world to start, (all fire, or plant and such) and the ideal to combine each, add aspects of them together to create a world that could be used to play D&D in. Now with that said it does not have to be your typical world, mountains, forest, dwarves, elves, and halflings. What it becomes is up to all of us, what it looks like it's history all of that we will do through role-playing and adventuring.

Your character's will become this worlds Pantheon and in the end (don't know how that would happen no way to TPK in this lol ) all clerics will worship one of you and all non-cleric's will curse or bless others in your name.

So there may be no God to patron a certain class or race, that is no bother as "people" can make up whatever they wish when it comes to those sorts of things, or be promoted to Saint. Or those classes/races may not be present.

Consensus was we go with the character gene rules posted by VV and we are because they are basiclly the same as Deities and Demigods just some added bonuses here and some character level loss there. We will be progressing in class levels and Divine Ranks as we play. 

Class Level: All characters start with 0 XP and gain experience as per the D&D rules (though I have no way of figuring out things like party lvl 21). I will be handing out XP points once a month probably the 1st of every month and you may not advance more than one level, as stated in the rules. This will give you extra xp to create items and all with during the month if you believe you will earn more than enough of your current to advance. Effectively you are all first level characters with a powerful race.

Divine Ranks: As per Deities and Demigods is based on number of worshippers, this means it can rise and fall. This may take longer to advance but figured the fast class advancement will make up for it. Still working on the acquiring and tracking of worshippers. Any ideals I'm all eyes. 

@ FM: looking back I see you have as favored weapon two intelligent kukri (Zhubkim the Whisperer and Tundntbur the Watcher), try and make them with the gp limit if they turn out not really what you were looking for I will try add limitations to compensate.

Not a bias view of warlocks. I think they are incredible fluff wise but not a good mechanic class. Right now you couldn't get me to approve it because it gives to much and restrains to little. Also better not to throw to many choices in as we barely have the basics covered. 

@ Roman Yes a unique type of party this is indeed- oh and thanks or the armageddon suggestion. 

*Ready for IC*
Lavaria
The One and the Many
Sirion
Heliasillyel Nuevuyar
Ubariya
Duretep
Chrextes

@ Theroc all you need is a name/alignment/portfoilio or domains/and a generalization of where you lived and who worshipped you and you are in the IC

Speaking of which I am going to go and create that now and post it's link right here:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/playing-game/272127-grey-mist.html

And then go back to character review (which reminds me) SunKing what does this-- V mean??? 

Oh and @ everyone- *PLAY NICE!!!*

*HM*


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

May I suggest you handwave the acquisition of followers in a manner such as this.... granted.. this IS a semi random way of doing it but this way it's fair as everyone has a shot to get different amounts of followers each time we roll for it...

Weekly Roll for Followers: 1d6x(100 or 1000... put a number here you feel is worthy) followers per week... 

Each week the DM takes into account what the God or Goddess has done for it's followers or the world itself to appease it's followers.... the DM would then assign bonus (or negative depending on the deities actions mind you) d6's to the initial roll that will also be multiplied by 100 or 1000 or whatever multiplier the DM feels like using... this way some may advance further faster... some may fall behind... it's completely up to the DM to decide based on RP and interaction between the deities and their followers and the world itself....


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

Why followers? We'll be creating the world, and after much creation will come the porces of making people to workship us =D


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

well VV tghe simple answer to that is that Divine Rank is Based off in part by number of followers you have.... I do believe... I haven't really read over the entirety of the rules on this yet.. but I think that's a huge part of it.....


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 16, 2010)

But they could remain in our home planes/planets and that way we don't have to bother with the accounting of followers.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 16, 2010)

Sooo, if i understand correctly, we will be CLVL 12 by this time in 2011? Yeah... Told ya getting 40 character levels (DD's appropriate for Greater Deities) would take forever.

Oh, and we talked it over with Rathan via PM, we are fine now


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## GlassEye (Feb 16, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> I personally don't see your god of death as a sneaky sort. I see meditation, thinking on the mysterys of life, and contemplating hwere the s0ouls of her realm will be going. I think monk might be a good idea, but i don't know your character like you do but monks do have Hide/Move Silently so you can steal stealth if you want.
> 
> just my two cents on the matter, although i might do a little bit of tweaking of my character and go monk but that is not set in stone.




Thanks for the reminder.  This hews closer to the original idea of Ubariya.  Unfortunately, I got a bit sidetracked with the grim reaper aspect and the mechanics of making a death-dealing machine and strayed from the more mysterious aspects of the goddess.  Going back to this will make her more Kali/Cybele than death incarnate.  Monk would work well for this but I think I'm going to stay with Horizon Walker.


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## Rathan (Feb 16, 2010)

On a little side note from a followers standpoint there is NOTHING stopping beings from other planes of existence worshiping us as well ... well nothing but DM disgression that is heh...


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## Roman (Feb 16, 2010)

Rathan said:


> well VV tghe simple answer to that is that Divine Rank is Based off in part by number of followers you have.... I do believe... I haven't really read over the entirety of the rules on this yet.. but I think that's a huge part of it.....




You won't find much information on the matter, because there are no rules for it. There are several options presented in Deities & Demigods, such as the power being inherent in the gods, power coming from followers/worshippers or a combination of the two, but these are merely suggestions with no rules attached to them. 



Voda Vosa said:


> But they could remain in our home planes/planets and that way we don't have to bother with the accounting of followers.




This. Or the power could be inherent in the gods, or partially tied to the world - as the world ages, the godlings increase in power automatically. 

Of course, having to depend on worshippers could make things interesting in that promoting our religions would be important to the growth of our power. Tracking it, however, could prove to be rather onerous. 

I suppose we could devise a system for how worshippers could impact divine rank if we wanted it to be that way. 

Here is an example of how it could work: 

Each person could grant a number of Belief Points: 

Believer: 1 
Worshipper: 5 
Devotee: 10 
Priest: 10*Level  

Divine rank = SQUARE_ROOT(Belief Points) / 1,000 

Tracking all of this could be quite tedious though. Some things could be approximated, but still. Say two religions declare wars on one another - how do you determine how many priests and devotees die from each? Or a godling decides to punish a city by smashing it turning it into a jungle (or blowing it up with a volcano, or whatever). Immediately you have to recalculate how many people died from what religion in order to reset divine ranks.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 17, 2010)

I think we should be dependent on the number of worshipers on this world alone (for RP reasons). Holy Man will use them as a replacement for XP points, and award worshipers as a result of RPing choices we make. We should get to choose several notable representatives of our faith and use them to do our bidding in the world.

On a side note, one deity we really lack is an Ocean God. Manaan, Poseidon, Njord etc. A god of the Seas/Ocean has been ever present throughout human history. We are simply too closely connected to the life giving properties of water, to it as a means of providing food, trade routs, as a stormy danger when angered etc. Had i not chosen Heliasillyel already, I'd have made an ocean God for sure.


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## Rathan (Feb 17, 2010)

I would have to agree with ML on this one.... and even though he/she'd be nearly my exact opposite in some aspects we still need one in my opinion... would be a nice opportunity for an NPC God or Goddess in my honest opinion... or if another player comes along.. there we go


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## Rathan (Feb 17, 2010)

I like your idea Roman... a more complicated version of mine actually breaking down who gives what to the deity.. however I suggested a simple mechanic because I know this is going to be a pain in the arse for HM as it already is heh


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 17, 2010)

Ditto that. 

About the ocean god, The one and the Many has Water as one of its domains, but is mostly refered to freshwater. Anyway, if there is no god of oceans, would there be an ocean anyway?


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 17, 2010)

So the game begins...

I understood that I have 2 intelligent kukris but I thought it over and Tunbuntbur the Watcher will be given up as a piece of himself to imbue the world with his essence

I will soon switch over to wilder, when things get a little less crazy in the home work category.


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## Sunking (Feb 17, 2010)

the V means check all is good and fine no flaws found!!!
It was just me doing the math and dubble checking charekters (to feal important after some hard words from frozen about me not being important (joke))

And the part about number of followers is in Faiths and Pantheons, ill look it up tommorow and post (at work now, and playing my normal D&D group tonight)


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## Theroc (Feb 17, 2010)

As it is for me at the moment, I am debating between whether to go with a more 'feral' battle kind (barbarians, totems, bestial veneration) or more of a Spartan/Roman fighting for the greater glory of the cause.

That'll have a rather significant impact on a lot of my productions... and I am thinking I may be a late entry here as I don't want to hold you all up, but this may take awhile.  I wanna make sure I create a god I'll want to continue playing for quite awhile.


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## GlassEye (Feb 17, 2010)

Myth, how is Heliasilllyel changing her form?  Or is that sun symbol her natural form?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 17, 2010)

The Gray Mist is RP only, and is a realm where we enter in spiritual form only. In other words, it's just flavor, no mechanics behind it  I figured that since we are in the spirit world that prevents us from interacting or using any powers, we can project whatever image we desire before the others.


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## GlassEye (Feb 17, 2010)

So you see it as a form of astral projection where we can alter the image that we present as we see fit.  Makes sense to me and I can gladly work with that concept though a (small) part of me wants to say that if you don't have some sort of illusion or shape change capability in the god's true reality then they shouldn't have it in the grey mist either.

You still didn't answer the question of what Heliasillyel's natural form is, though.  Anytime your character sheet mentions her appearance it is plainly and repeatedly stated as a 'mortal' elven form which I assume to be the avatar (which none of us can create yet).  I'm just curious and this was sparked by the IC thread; I'm not trying to accuse anyone of anything.  I suspect this may be important later when (if?) the gods walk the earth it will be in their true forms at first.  Or not, as HM sees fit.


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## GlassEye (Feb 17, 2010)

If no one objects or already has it in their portfolio I think I'm going to add night/darkness to Ubariya's portfolio.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 17, 2010)

Yes she looks like a regular Sun Elf female when one can perceive her in a corporeal form. Her essence is that she is a Sun deity, hence her holy symbol. Right now she is projecting an image of her holy symbol. If the DMs think that it's not OK i can edit my post and have her look like her regular self.

Illusion and disguise may be needed if i wanted her to make actual use of this shapechanging ability outside of the Grey Mist. I'm merely suggesting that while in the mist, the Gods are essentially just energy, formed to a shape by their minds. Most choose to take their regular forms. Heliasillyel chose to take the form of her holy symbol. Makes sense?


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 17, 2010)

Glasseye, just for your information, spiders have simple eyes (And all arachnids as well). Multifaceted eyes are an evolutionary trait of crustaceans.


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## Theroc (Feb 17, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Glasseye, just for your information, spiders have simple eyes (And all arachnids as well). Multifaceted eyes are an evolutionary trait of crustaceans.




And insects?  Bees and the like have compound eyes.

I always thought that applied to spiders and scorpions too.  Neat fact if it isn't.  Why do they need 8 though... if they are all in the same place?


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## GlassEye (Feb 17, 2010)

Myth said:
			
		

> Yes she looks like a regular Sun Elf female when one can perceive her in a corporeal form. Her essence is that she is a Sun deity, hence her holy symbol. Right now she is projecting an image of her holy symbol. If the DMs think that it's not OK i can edit my post and have her look like her regular self.
> 
> Illusion and disguise may be needed if i wanted her to make actual use of this shapechanging ability outside of the Grey Mist. I'm merely suggesting that while in the mist, the Gods are essentially just energy, formed to a shape by their minds. Most choose to take their regular forms. Heliasillyel chose to take the form of her holy symbol. Makes sense?




Yes.  I got it the first time you said it.  It's not that I'm not comprehending the concept.  It's that you have never said what her immortal form is until your previous post.  Every time it's mentioned it is something along the lines of '...takes up the form of...' or '..._mortal_ form is...'.  I was interested in what her true form is.  Now I know she is a sun elf who radiates such light/energy that most mortals can only perceive her as the sun.



			
				Voda Vosa said:
			
		

> Glasseye, just for your information, spiders have simple eyes (And all arachnids as well). Multifaceted eyes are an evolutionary trait of crustaceans.




Wow, you learn something new every day.  Thanks.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 17, 2010)

> Now I know she is a sun elf who radiates such light/energy that most mortals can only perceive her as the sun.



 Hadn't though of it in that fashion but now that you have put it to words, the image of Heliasillyel sitting in the middle of the sun itself, bathing the land in light and warmth is stuck in my head. Thanks!

Oh, and I had her return to her regular form in the RP thread.

FM good job with Duretepp, you made him sound like a sociopath, truly great RPing!


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

Theroc said:


> And insects?  Bees and the like have compound eyes.
> 
> I always thought that applied to spiders and scorpions too.  Neat fact if it isn't.  Why do they need 8 though... if they are all in the same place?




Well yes they do. That is because Insects evolved from crustaceans, for what they share the compound eyes (and other characteristics).

Some spiders have 8 others less, others more. They see little, at least most of them, mainly lights and shades, and they have so many to account for the 360° around them. 
There are the hunting spiders, who have highly developed simple eyes, that can identify preys and hunt them down like wolfs. Lykosidae family, Lykos, from wolf in latin.


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## Roman (Feb 18, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> On a side note, one deity we really lack is an Ocean God. Manaan, Poseidon, Njord etc. A god of the Seas/Ocean has been ever present throughout human history. We are simply too closely connected to the life giving properties of water, to it as a means of providing food, trade routs, as a stormy danger when angered etc. Had i not chosen Heliasillyel already, I'd have made an ocean God for sure.




Yeah, Ocean God is kind of a big thing and one of the options I was considering, but as Voda Vosa points out, it is possible to do without him and it may even make world design more interesting not to include some things that would normally exist.  



Rathan said:


> I like your idea Roman... a more complicated version of mine actually breaking down who gives what to the deity.. however I suggested a simple mechanic because I know this is going to be a pain in the arse for HM as it already is heh




Hmm, I am actually in the process designing a system for playing 'higher beings', including godlings, which deals with this issue somewhat differently, but it is nowhere near ready for prime time. 



Myth and Legend said:


> The Gray Mist is RP only, and is a realm where we enter in spiritual form only. In other words, it's just flavor, no mechanics behind it  I figured that since we are in the spirit world that prevents us from interacting or using any powers, we can project whatever image we desire before the others.




I would agree. We can say the Gray Mist does not allow us to affect each other, but because it is RP realm only, it permits us to project images appropriate to our portfolios. 



Voda Vosa said:


> Glasseye, just for your information, spiders have simple eyes (And all arachnids as well). Multifaceted eyes are an evolutionary trait of crustaceans.




Interesting... BTW: Are you a biologist or just interested in the topic? 



Voda Vosa said:


> Well yes they do. That is because Insects evolved from crustaceans, for what they share the compound eyes (and other characteristics).
> 
> Some spiders have 8 others less, others more. They see little, at least most of them, mainly lights and shades, and they have so many to account for the 360° around them.
> 
> There are the hunting spiders, who have highly developed simple eyes, that can identify preys and hunt them down like wolfs. Lykosidae family, Lykos, from wolf in latin.




Hmm, more interesting stuff.  What did spiders and other arachnids evolve from?


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## Roman (Feb 18, 2010)

Ah, I see the game has begun!


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## Roman (Feb 18, 2010)

Theroc said:


> As it is for me at the moment, I am debating between whether to go with a more 'feral' battle kind (barbarians, totems, bestial veneration) or more of a Spartan/Roman fighting for the greater glory of the cause.




Up to you, of course, but we are somewhat lacking on the noble/good godlings, so perhaps the Spartan/Roman glory would be nice!


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

> Hmm, more interesting stuff.  What did spiders and other arachnids evolve from?




Yes I'm a biologist indeed. 
Well thats a simple and complicated question at the same time. Note that I could go on several lines discussing this, you have been warned:
I think most people knows what a trilobite is? Those crab like creatures from the cambrian, that crawled the oceans in ages past.
Well those little fellows produced several lines of evolution, most died out, but one still remains, the chelicerata, a taxonomic group that gathers spiders, scorpions, acari, horseshoe crabs, and other creepy things that lurk in the dark  Even little whale "crabs" (in the nasty private zones vermin sense)
Horseshoe crabs are like a walking fossil. They are supposed to be very similar to those first ancestors. From that line evolved crustaceans and arachnids. Arachnids have diversificated a lot since their arrival to the earth, you have things like a scorpion, a web spider, a tarantula the size of a dinner dish that eats birds, and acari that can make galleries and tunnels into your skin. A wonderful group of animals.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 18, 2010)

I thought that I heard that we were thinking about making a world without an ocean, take this advice from a guy who tried to make an D20 apocalypse game where all of the seas evaporated and seas of salt were left in place, that is not a good idea. You would not have wind or weather if there was no ocean and it would also keep all settlements in the middle of continents and would make trade between the continents impossible.

Although if we were going to add magical weather than that is a different story and we were just going to have earth in those gaps that could work too.

Just saying it's more a headache than an actual benfit to play


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

They could be lakes of great magnitude. The one and the Many can control lakes.


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## Roman (Feb 18, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Yes I'm a biologist indeed.
> Well thats a simple and complicated question at the same time. Note that I could go on several lines discussing this, you have been warned:
> I think most people knows what a trilobite is? Those crab like creatures from the cambrian, that crawled the oceans in ages past.
> Well those little fellows produced several lines of evolution, most died out, but one still remains, the chelicerata, a taxonomic group that gathers spiders, scorpions, acari, horseshoe crabs, and other creepy things that lurk in the dark  Even little whale "crabs" (in the nasty private zones vermin sense)
> ...




That's awesome!  Thanks for the exposition on the topic. The evolutionary relationships between various creatures are a fascinating subject and we rarely hear anything about it for arachnids, crustaceans, insects and so on - mostly media concentrate on human evolution only. 



Frozen Messiah said:


> I thought that I heard that we were thinking about making a world without an ocean, take this advice from a guy who tried to make an D20 apocalypse game where all of the seas evaporated and seas of salt were left in place, that is not a good idea. You would not have wind or weather if there was no ocean and it would also keep all settlements in the middle of continents and would make trade between the continents impossible.
> 
> Although if we were going to add magical weather than that is a different story and we were just going to have earth in those gaps that could work too.
> 
> Just saying it's more a headache than an actual benfit to play




Well the world won't necessarily be without oceans... it just could be. There are other ways to have a water cycle operate. Imagine for example, the Earth's crust being dotted with deep cracks and crevaces. Great rivers would flow into those instead of emptying into oceans. Lavaria would then evaporate them as they fell into her realm and the steam would rise out of these crevaces to seed clouds and begin the water cycle anew. This would also generate winds. Furthermore, different areas of the Earth, can also heat and cool at different rates, which too would create winds and contribute to weather. 

Trade could be done along rivers, but ships would have to disembark their goods and passengers before the rivers fell deep into the Earth's interior... so trade would look different. 

I am not saying we have to go that way, but it could be interesting to do so. After all, we are not playing in the world as normal characters, but as beings that contribute to creation, so perhaps eliminating some aspects of normal worlds could be part of the fun. Than again, it might not - we will see how it develops through the RP.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

I ha the doubt about changing water to weather. Not sure about weather domain, not seen it in the sdr.


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## GlassEye (Feb 18, 2010)

I find it interesting that by standard Deities and Demigods rules we wouldn't be able to create mortal creatures until Divine Rank 16 (and then only with a specific SDA).  That would make us pretty poor creator deities; but then again we do have to have some overdeity create the world _for_ us.  Makes me wonder, though, how we are going to be able to affect the development of the world if we can't really _create_ anything.  I look forward to seeing how HM handles this.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 18, 2010)

We can have oceans without an ocean god, in DD it says that it's not necessary for every aspect of life to be included in some deity's portfolio. I just thought that it'd be a nice thing to add that's all. We definitely need large masses of water to have an earth-like world.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

I think he can rule that we can create life, or at least transport it from our home worlds-planes.


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## GlassEye (Feb 18, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> I think he can rule that we can create life, or at least transport it from our home worlds-planes.




Oh, I certainly agree.  And I hope the first rather than the second.  That way there will be something new created.  Ubariya is not so much interested in transplanting from her own realm so much as creating something and seeing how it interacts with everything else in the world.  And getting to play with something that she didn't herself create.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

Yes I hope so, all around my character is creating things. Living things.


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## Theroc (Feb 18, 2010)

I'm considering having my god take up dragon-kind as part of his portfolio, given my penchant for dragons.  Anyway, I'm still working out the general personality besides a penchant for championing a cause on the battlefield.

I was wondering, does anyone have any advice on giving dragon-like traits to my god?  I had considered just using the Half-Dragon template, but wasn't sure if I can even apply that using the creation rules.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

You could BE a dragon, choose dragon subtype, and get a gargantuan size for example, pick movement type Fly, perhaps alternate form, into that spartan gladiator you mentioned early. Pick natural attacks, a breath weapon and a couple of spell like abilities to emulate dragon spells. Fast healing would be nice, a fear aura also. Don't know, there are many things you could try out.

Here are the Dragon type Traits

A dragon possesses the following traits (unless otherwise noted in the description of a particular kind).

    * Darkvision out to 60 feet and low-light vision.
    * Immunity to magic sleep effects and paralysis effects.
    * Proficient with its natural weapons only unless humanoid in form (or capable of assuming humanoid form), in which case proficient with all simple weapons and any weapons mentioned in its entry.
    * Proficient with no armor.
    * Dragons eat, sleep, and breathe.


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## Theroc (Feb 18, 2010)

How would the Dragon and outsider types interact?  As for the rest of the advice, it seems pretty good.  I may perhaps spend some trait points on increasing the god's flying manueverability, lol.

For natural attacks, Dragons have... claws, bite, tail, Dragon Crush, right?


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

You get the best of both.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 18, 2010)

Theroc said:


> How would the Dragon and outsider types interact?




I myself have always thought of dragons as gods in their own right, they are strong enough to destroy armies and smart enough to comand their own. There are already dragon gods too, Tiamat and Bahamut being the most well known but there are many others. I think it would mean little to the outsiders because if what they have seen already haven't freaked them out than a dragon won't.


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## Theroc (Feb 18, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> I myself have always thought of dragons as gods in their own right, they are strong enough to destroy armies and smart enough to comand their own. There are already dragon gods too, Tiamat and Bahamut being the most well known but there are many others. I think it would mean little to the outsiders because if what they have seen already haven't freaked them out than a dragon won't.




I had meant the types mechanically speaking, not entities of the two.  Thanks for the reply... (And I've always been fascinated by dragons... maybe that's because I AM a dragon by chinese astrology.)  So, definitely going with a dragon.  Now to determine how many points I need to spend to get all the dragon stuff.


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## Theroc (Feb 18, 2010)

New question: If I spend trait points to change Torath's type to Dragon, does that mean he has 20d12 HD instead of 20d8?


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 18, 2010)

Theroc said:


> (And I've always been fascinated by dragons... maybe that's because I AM a dragon by chinese astrology.) So, definitely going with a dragon. Now to determine how many points I need to spend to get all the dragon stuff.





@Theroc: I have also always had a fascination for dragons my entire life and have spent a lot of time gathering a collection of dragon statues and art in all forms. On the nature of points you don't have to take a breath weapon, you could be a dragon that reveles in physical combat and with the lack of a breath weapon it means you have more points to spend on physical attributes.

@Voda: I have usually been listening to "This is Halloween" from Nightmare Before Christmas when I write for Duretep, it puts me into the proper state of mind to writ e for an insane god

@Everyone: Do you think that I should put all of the "moods" that Duretep has in RG so evreyone knows what is going on when he switches or is it good as it is now?


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 18, 2010)

No, you have 20 levels of outsider. The you change your type to dragon, rule wise speaking of course.


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## GlassEye (Feb 18, 2010)

Theroc said:


> New question: If I spend trait points to change Torath's type to Dragon, does that mean he has 20d12 HD instead of 20d8?




My understanding was you keep the features of Outsider (which means HD) and take the best traits of Dragon and Outsider.



Frozen Messiah said:


> @Everyone: Do you think that I should put all of the "moods" that Duretep has in RG so evreyone knows what is going on when he switches or is it good as it is now?




I kinda like the uncertainty of not knowing exactly which mood of Duretep's is speaking.


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## HolyMan (Feb 19, 2010)

Hey Theroc you need not go "full dragon" in apperance if it will save you some special trait points. Just take one level of sorcerer and at lvl 2 you should quailfy for Dragon Disciple and as you advance you can "get the look" if you want. 

Also maybe dragons in this world have started out humaniod and something could happen to change their apperance to the standard D&D look.

kool pick attached 

HM


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## Theroc (Feb 19, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Hey Theroc you need not go "full dragon" in apperance if it will save you some special trait points. Just take one level of sorcerer and at lvl 2 you should quailfy for Dragon Disciple and as you advance you can "get the look" if you want.
> 
> Also maybe dragons in this world have started out humaniod and something could happen to change their apperance to the standard D&D look.
> 
> ...




Nice pic.  Also, HM, I could simply pay for the "Half Dragon" template, getting THOSE benefits, instead of full dragon.  Not sure how that'd cost, traitwise.


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## HolyMan (Feb 19, 2010)

Sorry Theroc your type is outsider with a sort of divine template you can not add anything to that.

It is allowed to add a subtype to your outside type. Outsider(fire subtype), but dragon is a type. So half-dragon would be a type.

Now saying all that your form is all up to you so being a dragon in form is fine. You then would spend your trait points to get the abilities you want your DragonGod to have.

I would still go Dragon Disciple as the bonus to stats and natural armor would make you more dragonish[??] in the end.

HM


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## Theroc (Feb 19, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Sorry Theroc your type is outsider with a sort of divine template you can not add anything to that.
> 
> It is allowed to add a subtype to your outside type. Outsider(fire subtype), but dragon is a type. So half-dragon would be a type.
> 
> ...




Perhaps, but that would be 3 sorcerers amongst the gods, and Sorcerer doesn't really fit the vision of a god primarily based around warfare, when he attempts to discourage reliance on magic.  That aside, I'd say it would be a good idea.


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 19, 2010)

Buy the abilities with special traits and thats all about it! Anyway dragons don't have much good traits, pretty lame compared with outsiders.

Also, why don't you get in the grey mist and RP a while?? You only need an idea of your character


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## Theroc (Feb 19, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Buy the abilities with special traits and thats all about it! Anyway dragons don't have much good traits, pretty lame compared with outsiders.
> 
> Also, why don't you get in the grey mist and RP a while?? You only need an idea of your character




I want to solidify the concept with some mechanics before I post, so my character doesn't suddenly have a personality change.  >.>


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## GlassEye (Feb 19, 2010)

Seriously, we could spend _years_ boasting/threatening/posturing.  Let's get down to it!  The necessity of oceans has been mentioned (though I remind you all, we don't have to follow the physical and biological laws of our own world).  Do we even want a spherical world?  Options are endless!  Let's get creative here!


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## Voda Vosa (Feb 19, 2010)

One and the Many has already stated his necesities for the world, even a shape and constitution. 

Planet shape: Round of course! I would be boring otherwise, no round way trips.
Planet composition: Perhaps an inner layer of dark caves, probably for Duratep? Or the spider lady whose name is so hard to remember? Even for mister Clock, like a center of command, a huge dungeon filled with constructs and machinery that controls the movement of the planet in the cosmos!
First layer: Lava and faire, similar to a Hell, with a palace for Lady Hot hair. 
Outer crust: Lose earth and rock, cooled lava. The Lairs of most of the gods would be in the surface probably. Once that is done, the gods could descend and shape it, like rising mountains, carving lakes and rivers beds etc. Perhaps his Shiny ladiness would like a grassland plateu, Spiderwoman some sinester mountains with wicked looking trees, etc etc.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 20, 2010)

The fact is Duretep could care less about what the planet looks like and probably won't want to help in that creation, the major factor that he is interested in his dream world. All that Duretep wants is his city of dreams which is meant to be highly morphic, which I might call the castle that he would rule from to be called DreamSpire (I will begin my search for pics post haste). I think I may have him propose his idea of what would roam his realm and maybe also a certain circumstances where they can leave the dream world, like the in between times that the fey use to cross from their realms


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## Sunking (Feb 20, 2010)

we are having guests this weekend so don't think Ill have much time to post, but if i don't find the time ill be back with a vengance on mondag.

It looks good and Sirion is gonna come with a complete creation idea as soon as I have the time.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 21, 2010)

I apologize for stalling the creation of the world further with the handshake, you by no means must accept the handshake if you don't want to.

on another note, Weapon up for aproval:
[sblock=Zidanrad, The Certain]
+3 Keen Throwing Returning Kukri
Int: 18
Wis: 18
Cha: 10

Senses:
Darkvision (120 feet)
Blindsense (120 feet)
Telepathy (with wielder)
Hearing

Languages:
Common, Auran, Ignan, Terran, Aquan

Skills:
Spot 14 (10+4)
Listen 14 (10+4)

Lesser Powers:
Zone of Truth (3/day)

Greater Powers:
Detect Scrying (continuous)
Status (at will)

6500gp left
[/sblock]

I now ask, could I use te left over gold to make Duretep succeed all ego check with Zidanrad and anybody else automatiaclly fail?


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## GlassEye (Feb 21, 2010)

Frozen, I don't think it's stalling creation; I think it's building mythology.  Gods are making oaths and alliances.  What happens or could be caused to happen in the future because the blood of Duretep and Ubariya has mingled?*  Pregnancies have been caused by much less in our own real world mythologies, for example.


*True, Myth and Legend, and Heliasillyel by proxy, believes the grey mist to be a sort of astral travel but that isn't necessarily truth.  As far as I (and Ubariya) am concerned she is there in body and constrained from certain actions by the Grey Mist itself.  Therefore, the mixing of their blood _doesn't have to be_ 'virtual' but can be real.  In fact, unless HolyMan says '_This_ is the one true way' we can approach it in different fashions, each one equally true and valid.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 21, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Frozen, I don't think it's stalling creation; I think it's building mythology. Gods are making oaths and alliances. What happens or could be caused to happen in the future because the blood of Duretep and Ubariya has mingled?* Pregnancies have been caused by much less in our own real world mythologies, for example.
> 
> 
> *True, Myth and Legend, and Heliasillyel by proxy, believes the grey mist to be a sort of astral travel but that isn't necessarily truth. As far as I (and Ubariya) am concerned she is there in body and constrained from certain actions by the Grey Mist itself. Therefore, the mixing of their blood _doesn't have to be_ 'virtual' but can be real. In fact, unless HolyMan says '_This_ is the one true way' we can approach it in different fashions, each one equally true and valid.




This is indeed true, and an interesting point. The mixing of Madness and Death which in turn creates a new being. Could this be how undead were first formed within this world, by total accident and it would change much of the rituals that are needed to raise them? Undead being something outside of the human imagining (madness) but dead all the same but yet living (birthed from death). I look to everyone whether this idea is good or not but this may force a slight change in the portfolio of Duretep given time.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 21, 2010)

Since Kronos and the other Titans were spawned by the blood of the gelded Uranus, I see little problem with this intermingling of divine blood to produce results. It's up to HM however. BTW when were the item rules posted? I seem to have missed them.


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## GlassEye (Feb 21, 2010)

Frozen, that is an excellent take on the idea.  I heartily endorse it.  Ubariya would hate it and reject the undead spawned by it (since they would likely be outside the rebirth cycle of the journeying soul) so having them accepted by the father would be good but only if you really wanted to include them in your portfolio.  As an aside, I'm all for portfolio's growing as a result of roleplaying.

Item creation: don't remember the exact post but it was basically one weapon of 128,000 gold piece value.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 21, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Frozen, that is an excellent take on the idea. I heartily endorse it. Ubariya would hate it and reject the undead spawned by it (since they would likely be outside the rebirth cycle of the journeying soul) so having them accepted by the father would be good but only if you really wanted to include them in your portfolio. As an aside, I'm all for portfolio's growing as a result of roleplaying.




Very good then, Duretep will accept them into his realm. I believe that there will be a split between the corporeal and incorporeal, incorporeal taking more from the side of Duretep and corporeal taking more from the side of Ubariya. I think there would be 2 undead that would be created at the beginning: a vampire and a wraith, both are creatures that are able to multiply because of creating spawns. Thi also makes me wonder if the two first will rise to godhood at one point?

This is only an idea though, any ideas on your side will be very welcome or from anybody.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 21, 2010)

OK i have had the idea of Heliasillyel's weapon - a composite Longbow named Shinecaster. However there are two things i want and they are not standard by any means. I want the bow to be constructed entirely from light - shining yellow sunbeams woven around in the patterns of Elven bow crafting (that's fluff so i guess it's ok).

However, it will really make no sense for a Goddess to be firing mundane arrows with her bow. I want the weapon to be able to produce it's own arrows, that also seem to be created entirely from light (sort of like brilliant energy arrows). Which brings me to the next thing i wanted - at will, the user can create either a regular arrow or a Brilliant Energy arrow. How does this equate in gp costs? Is it even balanced? I mean, i can always make it a + 4 Holy Flaming Burst Composite Longbow [+2 STR] but that would be... well boring. Not sure i want to make it an intelligent item, I view it more as part of Heliasillyel's own essence, manifested when combat is inevitable.


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## GlassEye (Feb 21, 2010)

Since the second half of my proposal is rather oblique, I am also proposing the creation of the moon and shadow (NOT the undead sort).




GlassEye said:


> *True, Myth and Legend, and Heliasillyel by proxy, believes the grey mist to be a sort of astral travel but that isn't necessarily truth.  As far as I (and Ubariya) am concerned she is there in body and constrained from certain actions by the Grey Mist itself.  Therefore, the mixing of their blood _doesn't have to be_ 'virtual' but can be real.  In fact, unless HolyMan says '_This_ is the one true way' we can approach it in different fashions, each one equally true and valid.




Gah!  I quoted myself.   I thought I should explain exactly what I meant given Myth's spoilered comment IC.  The she above (in yellow) I meant as Ubariya not Heliasillyel.  I meant that both Myth's projection and my corporeal presence could be true.  This doesn't have to be an either/or situation.  Heliasillyel could be projecting an image; Ubariya can be there in body.  Each deity can choose their preferred method of interaction.  Whatever the case, we still operate under the same constraints.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 22, 2010)

Note to the DMs: replaced my Craft: Musical Instrument for Knowledge: Arcana (23 ranks only). And took KA's 24 ranks for Perform: Sing. I needed it for the RP but figured that Heliasillyel can't be a Bard deity with only two perform skills


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## Rathan (Feb 22, 2010)

On the note of deities creating things when not even meaning to... brilliant because the mythos that will be talked about for eons will discuss how undead came to be and no one will EVER know besides the Gods themselves... and who knows if THEY will figure it out for a long time to come... Awesome thoughts guys 

I do believe HM wanted the weapons to be kept semi simple ML. Not 100% sure on this mind you. Cool idea for the bow though


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## Sunking (Feb 22, 2010)

Myth the bow and ammunition is a problem in the 3.5 that ought to be reworked but its not gonna be that big of a impackt on this that its worth spending that time and energy (althoug you are more than welcome to try and the suggest a solution) i would recomend you go with the borring soultion (I know I did) since oure weapons aint gonna be the most important thing, is gonna be wery long down on the list realy.

On a side node Briliant probertly aint the way to go with sun arrows sincce: A brilliant energy weapon cannot harm undead, constructs, and objects
And pure sunlight ought to do that.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 22, 2010)

OK here is my suggestion. Mind you, I am willing to sacrifice as many trait points as needed for this to work, so long as balance is maintained. Also, the other piece of equipment I described is her massive golden belt with the eighteen-rayed sun as a buckle, and i'd like that to be a magical item as well.

Tell you what, why don't we all have the option of having our Divine weapons as parts of our own beings, and thus require not gold, but trait points and charcter progression to become more powerful? In the mean time we can use our GP on other items. I'm sure as hell willing to spend Specail Trait points for such a weapon.

*Suggestion:*

*Divine **Weapons get an enchantment bonus of 1/3 of the Deity's Divine Rank rounded down, with a minimum of +1.* So the Deity has a +1 at DR 0 - to 5, +2 at DR 6 to 8, +3 at DR 9 to 11, +4 at DR 12 to 14, +5 at DR 15 to 17 and +6 at DR 18 to 20.

*Divine **Weapons get one power  per Domain of the Deity.* (subject to DM approval)

*Divine **Weapons have 6 special ability slots* available at DR 1, 5, 10, 15 and two at DR 20  (from SRD, like Holy, Mighty Cleaving, Keen etc. For example, Holy uses 2 slots and thus can be obtained at DR 5 the earliest. Brilliant Energy takes 4 and can be obtained at DR 15 and so on)

*Divine **Weapons* deal neither piercing, slashing nor bludgeoning damage, but instead deal Universal damage. As such, they bypass normal resistances attributed to damage types.

*Divine **Weapons can only be used by beings with Divine Rank 0 or higher.

* *Divine **Weapons bestow one negative DR level* to any user that is not of the same alignment as the deity.

*Divine **Weapons bestow DR/3 negative DR levels**Divine **Weapons bestow DR/3 negative DR levels *with a minimum of 1 to  any user apart from the Deity, unless the Deity wills otherwise as a free action. 			 		 

*Divine Weapons adjust by the Deity's size, type, from and other variables, and as such are always usable.* A deity does not lose it's weapon even if the form it takes would otherwise make it do so. (So no loss of natural Divine weapons when in the form of a cat, or no more Bastard Sword when shapechanged in to a bear. You always have your weapon in some form). 

*Divine Weapons* *are always returning, require no ammunition, and can be summoned to the Deity as a move action if dropped, disarmed or otherwise lost.*

*Divine Wepons are crafted from the deity's soul, and are thus weightless.*

*Divine **Weapons's location can be scryed by the creator Deity as a full round action with* *with no chance of failure or blocking the weapon from divination.*

In the case of two or more weapons, or a double weapon, the Deity chooses the power and enchantment distribution. For example, one can have a +3 Scimitar in his/her main hand, and a +1 Dagger in the off-hand, while a Deity of similar Divine Rank wielding a Greataxe will have a +4 weapon.

In the case of natural weapons - nothing changes really 

[sblock=Suncaster]The Suncaster is Heliasillyel's Longbow, constructed from the Goddess's own energy and powered by her immortal soul. As such, even though it is not sentient, the weapon can only be used by a Deity and bestows heavy repercussions on one that is not of the same alignment as Heliasillyel. The Suncaster's purpouse is to cast rays of light at the enemies of good, smiting Undead beings and charming those who would oppose Heliasillyel. 

The weapon spans the length of the Gddess's own body, and is woven of rays of sunlight, intertwined in intricate patterns forming leaves and vines, as it is customary for Eladrin bows. It shines brightly and cannot be extinguished by any means, short of Heliasillyel's death, and as the Goddess grows in power, so does her weapon.

The weapon fires arrows made of pure yellow sunlight, that are devastating to Undead beings and creatures of the Evil alignment. It can also use Heliasillyel's charm and passion to beguile those who would oppose the Goddess.

*Statistics for DR0:*

*Suncaster, 1d8 x3 + 1, + 2 VS Evil, + 1d6 fire + 2 STR*

*Composite Longbow* + 2 STR (Max deity's STR) 
*Damage (M):* 1d8 x 3
*Range:* 110 ft.
*Weightless.*
*Damage type:* Universal (Divine)
*Special:* 
*+ 1 Enchantment Bonus*
*+ 1 Enchantment Bonus vs Evil creaturs* (Good Domain power)
*Slay Undead on successful hit, DC: 13*, DC is deity's Divine Rank + Charisma modifier. (Sun Domain power)
*Domination effect on successful hit DC: 13*, Effect as Dominate Monster, DC is deity's Divine Rank + Charisma modifier. (Charm Domain power)
*Flaming*
Bestow 1 negative Divine Rank level to any user other than Heliasillyel
Bestow 1 negative Divine Rank level to any user who is not Chaotic Good[/sblock]


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## Sunking (Feb 22, 2010)

I think that is to complexed the weapon being so little part of us and the things we gain from advancement alredy is much, so to boost this would seems to complex things even more.

The rule mecanik I suggested were somthing about amunition for magic weapons in general, not yet another add-on rule.

as for spending trait points on your weapon must be up to HM!


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 22, 2010)

And what is your point exactly? That we will become too powerful as we level? We are role playing Gods... Plus, until we get a +4 bonus we cannot overcome each others DR, so that at least will make it harder to kill one another.

The system is not too complex, most of the things added are "doh" for a divine weapon. The powers are granted as we progress in DR, I fail to see where it's too hard to use, when we already have a pretty elaborate system to work with.

BTW Sunking, there is a difference between Avatar and Proxy, just though't i'd point it out in the OOC since Sirion mentioned "proxy" in the RP thread. There is info in the DD or SRD.

By the way it occured to me that as we have Alignments and are Outsiders, we should either get both our alignments as subtypes (for the purpouse of overcoming DR) or should be required to take those (all the gods in Deities and Demigods have those, and it's mentioned in the SRD as well)


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## Sunking (Feb 22, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> BTW Sunking, there is a difference between Avatar and Proxy, just though't i'd point it out in the OOC since Sirion mentioned "proxy" in the RP thread. There is info in the DD or SRD.





Rulewise: yes there are difrends

meaning of the word: *Proxy* may refer to one who or that which acts on behalf of someone or something else, therfor it can be used about a avartar


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## Rathan (Feb 22, 2010)

Going to have to agree with Sunking here. I took just one really quick glance at the weapons build you gave ML, and really it confused the heck out of me. I think just giving us the 128,000 gold limit and saying 'have at it guys' is more than fair. It allows us to showcase our deities weapon of choice as well as adds a bit of protection for us. My vote it to leave it as HM stated as is.


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## GlassEye (Feb 22, 2010)

I have no problem with your weapon rule suggestions, Myth.  I think they're pretty cool actually and dovetail nicely with the other deity rules that we use.  I didn't have a problem with the previous weapon workup you used (no ammo, sunray arrows, etc.) either.  We are playing gods and gods have nifty toys.  But then it's not really up to me 

My problem with the 128,000 is it's hard to come up with something that isn't explicitly stated in the rules.  There seems to be strong resistance to thinking outside the box.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 22, 2010)

OK i will try to explain each part and give another example (since i already provided the Suncaster as an example)



> *Divine **Weapons get an enchantment bonus of 1/3 of the Deity's Divine Rank rounded down, with a minimum of +1.* So the Deity has a +1 at DR 0 - to 5, +2 at DR 6 to 8, +3 at DR 9 to 11, +4 at DR 12 to 14, +5 at DR 15 to 17 and +6 at DR 18 to 20.



 This means that the Enchantment bonus of your weapon is directly tied to your Divine Rank. Let's say Pookey, God of weasels, has a stick. The stick is his Divine Weapon. Now the stick does 1d3 damage. When Pookey ascends to Godhood, the stick automatically becomes his Divine Weapon, created out of his divine essence and so on. And, as a result it becomes a stick + 1. When Pookey becomes a deity with Divine Rank 18, he will have a stick +6. The progression is in the quote.



> *Divine **Weapons get one power  per Domain of the Deity.* (subject to DM approval)



OK let's say that Pookey has the Luck Domain. Now the player running Pookey suggests what power his weapon gets based on that domain and it's respective Granted Power. I've given Heliasillyel's bow one static power and two that scale with Divine Rank. So for Pookey, we could have, for example:

*Lucky Strike: Pookey's stick hits as if it had rolled a natural 20 and has scored a critical hit.* This power is usable once per day at DR 0 to 7, twice per day at DR 8 to 14 and three times per day at DR 15 to 20. (derived from Luck domain)



> *Divine **Weapons have 6 special ability slots* available at DR 1, 5, 10, 15 and two at DR 20  (from SRD, like Holy, Mighty Cleaving, Keen etc. For example, Holy uses 2 slots and thus can be obtained at DR 5 the earliest. Brilliant Energy takes 4 and can be obtained at DR 15 and so on)



Similar to how characters gain feats i suppose, we gain special abilities for the weapon. Those can be used to obtain any SRD enchantment. So if Pookey is Divine rank 10 for example, he has 3 SA slots. So he has chosen to grant his weapon the Unholy and Thundering enchantments (2+1 enchantment leves = 3 SA slots). However at Divine Rank 20 Pookey can decide to replace those and make full use of his total of 6 SA slots (the maximum), so his stick becomes Vorpal and Keen (5+1)



> *Divine **Weapons* deal neither piercing, slashing nor bludgeoning damage, but instead deal Universal damage. As such, they bypass normal resistances attributed to damage types.



Basically to not have disadvantaged deities due to damage types, and to further distance the Divine Weapons from mundane ones. Pookey's stick doesn't deal bludgeoning damage as a regular stick would, but rather Universal (Divine) type of damage. So if a Zombie has DR 10/slashing Pookey's stick bypasses that without problem.



> *Divine **Weapons can only be used by beings with Divine Rank 0 or higher.*



This is self explanatory. Since those are powered by the essence of a God, only one with similar powers can hope to wield such a weapon effectively.



> *Divine **Weapons bestow one negative DR level* to any user that is not of the same alignment as the deity.



Other Gods can use Pookey's stick, but if they are not Chaotic Neutral like him, they lose one Divine Rank level until they relinquish the stick. Simlar to Evil creatures wielding a Holy weapon for example. 







> *Divine **Weapons bestow DR/3 negative DR levels *with a minimum of 1 to  any user apart from the Deity, unless the Deity wills otherwise as a free action.



Same as with the alignment penalty, but it scales with Divine Rank and serves as a protection that can be turned off. This is to ensure that the tricky Minx Goddess can't steal Pookey's stick and beat him to a pulp with it. well, she _could_ steal it, but if Pookey is a DR 9 God, Minx will lose 3 Divine Ranks for wielding his stick, on top of the 1 DR if she was anything other than Chaotic Neutral.



> *Divine Weapons adjust by the Deity's size, type, from and other variables, and as such are always usable.* A deity does not lose it's weapon even if the form it takes would otherwise make it do so. (So no loss of natural Divine weapons when in the form of a cat, or no more Bastard Sword when shapechanged in to a bear. You always have your weapon in some form).



This is to safeguard gods like Blubber Bear who instead of taking an actual weapon for his Divine Weapon, chose to bestow the power unto his natural claw attacks. If he shapechanges in to a weasel to attend Pookey's grand ball, he can still use his Divine Weapon natural attack. Similarly, Heliasillyel can use her bow even if she is shapechanged in to a fish - it's a weapon made of divine energy she wields as she pleases.



> *Divine Weapons* *are always returning, require no ammunition, and can be summoned to the Deity as a move action if dropped, disarmed or otherwise lost.*



So, if they are thrown, they always have the _returning_ special ability. If they are missile weapons, they require no missiles. If they are regular melee weapons they get no benefit apart form the fact that all Divine Weapons can be summoned to the creating Deity as a move action. Dropped your sword? Summon it back! Sword got teleported to the Negative Plane? Summon it back! It's your own damn sword, made from your own Divine essence, after all. So even if Minx managed to steal Pookey's sword, he can *poof* it back in to his hands... or paws..



> *Divine Wepons are crafted from the deity's soul, and are thus weightless.*



Pretty self-explanatory i think.



> *Divine **Weapons's location can be scryed by the creator Deity as a full round action with* *with no chance of failure or blocking the weapon from divination.*



If Minx manages to steal Pookey's weapon, but crafty as she is decides to run away with it, Pookey can choose to divine the weapon's location and see who stole it form him, before doing the aforementioned *poof* action to retreive it. After all, a weasel God must know who dared take his stick.

Now i trust this makes more sense?


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## Theroc (Feb 22, 2010)

HM: Are all the domains in the SRD fair games, including those under the Divine rules?  Such as the Glory domain?


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## Sunking (Feb 22, 2010)

Theroc as co-DM I can answer you yes glory and all the other Domains in the SRD are go


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## Theroc (Feb 22, 2010)

Is it possible for two beings to possess an identical portfolio element?  Or is that impossible?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes per Deities and Demigods it is. Your domains characterize your God. The example in the DD book is two Ocean Gods, one having Air Travel and Water, while the other having Chaos, Destruction and Water.

Both are Ocean gods with the Oceans portfolio element, but one is a violent, stormy type of god, while the other one is a seafarer's guide.


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Alrighty.

I'm still debating whether Paladin would be a good fit for this character or not.  I really like it, except I don't see wisdom being a very prime trait for him... and that would preclude spellcasting as per his class.  Barbarian doesn't fit a god well either, as raging prevents any form of higher thought.


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## Sunking (Feb 23, 2010)

you must remember that we still get our Divine rank to all stats so you wisdom aint gonna be that bad when we get there, and a paladin don't need that much, alas you could always go fighter a god of war can't go wrong with fighter


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Sunking i want to point out that none of us know Theroc's God or his portfolio, so how does Sirion know what a newborn deity's powers are? Well apart from the metagaming 

BTW i want to clarify things before i post, IC is not good for such discussions. So your and Sirion's point of view is that if we are allowed to walk in full power we can kill one another and this would disrupt balance?

But if we use avatars we can just slay each other's avatars instead of the actual thing?

However, if one or even a group of Deities want to kill another one, they onle need go and slaguhter him/her in his own realm. There is no safehouse in DnD for anything or anyone. Even in Deities and Demigods there's an entry, saying that anyone (even mortals) can track a Deity's true form and slay it, and it's no different than finding the Tarrasque's lair and fighting it.


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## Sunking (Feb 23, 2010)

my bad I was just thinking of using the examble of a wargod and the he popped up i diden't think about not knowing his portfolio Ill go edit (changet the scaly one to generic wargod)

And yes we could go kill each others thats not the point, the point is that whil stroling arround in uor tru form we might run into each other and becaus of portfolio get into a conflikt that might end up killing a god now this seems to Sirion to be the best way to awoid unnesary god killings becaus the god of war should be allowed to percipate in wars (but if its only his avartar he wont be killed for real) and it should be allowed for the other gods also to to defend their portfolio but most of this discusion should be taken in the rp sektion since yes i can easely see your point but thatas rulewise and not somthing that gonna get in the way of sirions arguments 

It all about that when a god dies i affekts all of creation and if we can make some rules then this can be awoidet, ofcourse you could go to their realm and slay them but I would think the god on his home turf would be at avantage here and maybe the other gods would interween or sanktion a god who slays or trys to slay another, while in the examble Sirion gives I find the aktion of slaying the other god (or avartar) fully legal

Sidenode I have put in a little more about sirion you are all welcome to read it but no one but holyman knows those details in "The dark of It" not even Sirion


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Hehe i was waiting for that you know. I can't help but click a spoiler that says it's hiding the dark secrets of a Deity.

Anyway, there are rules for the advantages a Deity gets on it's own plane, but none are such as to stop two deities of equal divine rank from splattering him/her without pause.

Also, the problem with Avatars is that they are not expendable as you seem to think. If a Deity loses an Avatar it takes a year to recover, so in essense, slaying the avatar of a Deity that adheres to the law of not coming down on the earth in his/her true form will effectively seal it from direct intervention for the next year. In some ways it would be a viable strategy to kill a Deity's avatar and thus "legally" remove him/her from the world for the next one year.

Anyway, Sunking, can I please ask you (without taking offense, I know English is not your native language) to use the built-in spellchecker that ENWorld provides? It really takes me a while to make heads and tails of some of your words. Sorry to be a pain in the butt 

Now, some relevant quotes from Deities and Demigods:
[sblock=Why Gods rarely die]Deities possess tremendous personal power. Divine and salient divine abilities combined with the might of their bodies and minds make them awesome creatures. Their ability to invoke divine awe is often defense enough. In their homes (see Cosmology and Divine Realms, below) they also possess subtle control over reality itself. Flocks, if not armies, of servants, avatars, and proxies normally surround deities. Deities possess relics and artifacts about which mortals know nothing.

If threats to their existence are real, they’ve had centuries to carefully prepare their defenses. In many pantheons, allied gods stand ready to assist and defend each other: Anyone foolish enough to attack Pelor will likely face Heironeous’s forces as well. Two other factors protect them: oracles and their own churches. Many deities have some ability to perceive the future, and thus predict attacks before they happen. Some have servants functioning as oracles at all times, constantly combing the weave of times to come for any threat. In addition, churches mobilize to stop threats to their deities

A potential godkiller likely faces legions of mortal worshipers first. The effort required to kill a god is enormous, and few are willing to expend it—even other gods are reluctant to focus that much of their attention and energy on a single task.[/sblock]

[sblock=Godly Realm]Each deity of rank 1 or higher has a location that serves as a workplace, personal residence, audience chamber, and sometimes as a retreat or fortress. A deity is at its most powerful within its godly realm.

A deity has at least modest control over the environment within its realm, controlling the temperature and minor elements of the environment such as smells and background sounds. The radius of this control is a function of the deity’s rank and whether the realm is located on an Outer Plane or some other plane (including the Material Plane).

_(there is a table here, adhering to the rule of Radius of Control.)_

Within this area, the deity can set any temperature that is normal for the plane where the realm is located (for the Material Plane, any temperature from –20ºF to 120ºF), and fill the area with scents and sounds as the deity sees fit. Sounds can be no louder than one hundred humans could make; the deity could create the sounds of an invisible choir, a battle, a jungle full of raucous birds, or similar sounds, but not intelligible speech or harmful sound. This control over sound is similar to the ghost sound spell, but capable of producing a much larger volume of noise. The deity’s ability to create scents is similar. Deities of

A demigod or lesser deity can erect buildings and alter the landscape, but must do so through its own labor, through magic, or through its divine powers.

A deity of rank 6 or higher not only has control over the environment, but also controls links to the Astral Plane (assuming the cosmology where the deity resides has an Astral Plane). Manipulating a realm’s astral links renders teleportation and similar effects useless within the realm (see Chapter 1 for a list of spells with astral connections). The deity can designate certain locales within the realm where astral links remain intact. Likewise, the deity can block off the realm from planar portals or designate locations where portals are possible.

A deity of rank 11 or higher can also apply the enhanced magic or
impeded magic trait to up to four groups of spells (schools, domains,
or spells with the same descriptor). The enhanced magic trait enables
a metamagic feat to be applied to a group of spells without requiring
higher-level spell slots. Many deities apply the enhanced magic trait
to their domain spells, making them maximized (as the Maximize
Spell feat) within the boundaries of their realm. The impeded magic
trait doesn’t affect the deity’s spells and spell-like abilities.

In addition, a deity of rank 11 or higher can erect buildings as desired and alter terrain within ten miles to become any terrain type found on the Material Plane. These buildings and alterations are manifestations of the deity’s control over the realm.

A greater deity (rank 16 or higher) also can perform any one of
the following acts:
• Change or apply a gravity trait within the realm.
• Change or apply an elemental or energy trait within the realm.
• Change or apply a time trait within the realm.
• Apply the limited magic trait to a particular school, domain, or
spell descriptor within the area, preventing such spells and spelllike
abilities from functioning. The greater deity’s own spells and
spell-like abilities are not limited by these restrictions.

Once a deity sets the conditions in its realm, they are permanent, though the deity can change them. As a standard action, the deity can specify a new environmental condition. The change gradually takes effect over the next 10 minutes.

Changing astral links, planar traits, or terrain requires more effort, and the deity must labor for a year and a day to change them. During this time, the deity must spend 8 hours a day on the project. During the remaining 16 hours of each day, the deity can perform any action it desires, so long as it remains within the realm. The astral links, planar traits, and terrain remain unchanged until the labor is complete.[/sblock]

[sblock=Travel]A deity of rank 1 or higher can use teleport without error as a spell-like ability at will, as the spell cast by a 20th-level character, except that the deity can transport only itself and up to 100 pounds of objects per divine rank. A deity of rank 6 or higher also can use plane shift as a spell-like ability at will, as the spell cast by a 20thlevel character, except that the deity can only transport itself and up to 100 pounds of objects. If the deity has a familiar, personal mount, or personal intelligent weapon, the creature can accompany the deity in any mode of travel if the deity touches it. The creature’s weight counts against the deity’s weight limit.[/sblock]

This last rule in particular means that I will be editing my sheet and removing my Greater Teleport SLA from my list of traits, if you are OK with that? No point in taking it if next DR i can cast it at will, I'd rather take another 2 points of Charisma. By the way, how are we going to increase our ability scores to the level of other deities?

[sblock=Avatar]The deity can use some of its own energy to create a duplicate of itself.

*Prerequisites:* Divine Rank 6, Cha 29.

*Benefit:* An avatar serves as a deity’s alter ego, effectively allowing the deity to be in two or more places at the same time.

An avatar is an extension of a deity. The deity senses and knows everything the avatar senses and knows and vice versa. Each avatar counts as a remote location where the deity is sensing and communicating. A lesser deity can have up to five avatars at once, an intermediate deity can have up to ten, and a greater deity can have up to twenty avatars at once.

It takes a deity one year to create an avatar or replace a destroyed avatar. The process does not require any special effort on the deity’s part; the deity simply starts the process and lets it run its course.

An avatar must be created in the deity’s own realm.

If the deity has the Divine Creation salient divine ability, the deity can use it to create a new avatar anywhere. However, the deity must rest afterward as noted in the Divine Creation ability description.

An avatar is a less powerful version of a deity, created by modifying the deity’s statistics, that has the following characteristics.

*Divine Rank:* The avatar’s divine rank is half that of the deity (round down). This decrease in divine rank affects many of the avatar’s statistics and abilities, including bonuses to attack rolls, damage, saves, checks, and Armor Class, damage reduction, resistances, number of salient divine abilities and bonus salient divine abilities, uses per day of domain powers, saving throw DCs against spell-like abilities, range of senses, automatic actions, magic items it can create, and extent of divine aura. The deity’s ability scores, speed, class levels, and Hit Dice are unchanged.

Divine Abilities: The avatar has salient divine abilities according to its own divine rank. The deity chooses which of its abilities the avatar has when creating the avatar. The avatar cannot have a salient divine ability that is not available to a deity of its own rank, nor can it use a salient divine ability if it doesn’t meet the prerequisites. An avatar cannot have the Avatar or Possess Mortal salient divine abilities. 

An avatar does not have any remote sensing or remote communication powers.

Suggested Portfolio Elements: Any.[/sblock]

By the way, have you read my explanation on the Divine Weapons writeup? Does it make more sense now?


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## Sunking (Feb 23, 2010)

i know about the one year build time, so it could be used to "remove" him/her but then agein woulden't it be better then perma kill

I also know we could splat one another but the difrence is that it would have to be done more direkt and with the intent of destruktion.

I would still say this discusion would be better taken in the RP, since I can se all your points rulewise but Sirion have a strong oppenion about this (is it ok to speak in third person about one self when it is ones charekter, which is fully controled by one self )

and for the spelling mostly before i post in the RP I use word to spell check for me (since a Int as high as Sirions ought to result in less grama and spelling flaws then my mastery over the english language) diden't know there was a inbuild spellchecker (which if I can find I will use from now on(well it seems it requirs a download component wich i can't do on my workstation)) Its just when i post here I just shoot from my hip. (Ill try to use word spellchecker her to)


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Umm well no it's in-built as in while you write you can see the words underlined with red if they are perceived as wrong. If you are using a different browser/OS or have some Java restrictions set you might not see it.

Added +2 CHA to Heliasillyel in place of the Greater Teleport SLA. I also found a major oversight in my sheet (one that you had missed as well when reviewing my sheet), i had not added my CHA modifier to my saving throws. Anyone who missed that should edit their post (I can't make heads or tails of Voda's sheet so i can't tell, but it seems Rathan at least has seen it and added it to Lavaria's sheet).


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## Rathan (Feb 23, 2010)

I'm going to Drop my Greater Teleport for more CHA myself based on that info... 

Also: Have we solidified how we're going to do followers? I made a simple suggestion a while back in the thread. This never really got settled before people moved onto different topics. Lets focus on this for a moment people and get it hashed out before we overlook it again.


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Quick Question: Would the Paladin's CHA to saves even MATTER as a deity?  Would that stack with the Divine ability already, or no?

Thirdly, beside fighter (Or sorcerer/Dragondisciple), does anyone have any other ideas for a mechanical representation?

Dragon Disciple would have been alright, except I want Torath dragon-like at the start, which is impossible with Dragon Disciple.

Fighter... I guess extra epic feats would be good, except they aren't on the fighter list, lol.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Yes it's an undefined bonus - same with the Unearthly Grace special ability Nymphs have, while the Divine CHA to saves is a Luck bonus.

You can look like a dragon by spending trait points i guess, wait on HM for that. I'd definitely go for fighter, you will need a ton of feats to really make an effective God of War. I should know, Heliasillyel is just starved for feats, as i want her to be a Bard/Sorcerer hybrid, i'm just wandering where the hell am i going to get all the archery feats from...

On the other hand, Divine Weapon Mastery has a prerequisite of Fighter 20 and grants you free Weapon Focus, Weapon Specialization, and Improved Critical feats when wielding any simple or martial weapon. 

You should go for Divine Battle Mastery (which still needs lots of feats to take), and of course, is the pinnacle for any War deity. 

To put it in simpler terms, Salient Divine Abilites are far far greater and more important than your Classess. In this case, your class levels and features are prerequisites to your SDAs and that's about it.

For example I'm planning for Heliasillyel to go Divine Bard, Irresistable Performance, Divine Archer and Divnie Metamagic. So i will be Bard 20 first, and then get 20 levels of Sorcerer and get the Epic Feat that allows me to cast two Quickened spells per round.

Which reminds me, Alter Reality does not substitute for caster levels. One can cast heavily amplified 9th level spells with spell slots above 9th level with Divine Spellcasting and of course, with my aforementioned biuld (don't you dare steal it ) a deity can cast two quickened 9th level spells and one regular 9th level spell amped up to say 13th level. And, those can be channeled trough a metamagic rod for example....


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

We're going to manage 20+ class levels!?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Hopefully yes, if HM agrees to speed up leveling though. His system of 1 level per month means that we have to play this game for 5 years to see our Deities equal Zeus or Corellon Larethian in power.

Deities of DR 16+ have 20/20/10 for class levels, or something close at least.

Sunking I don't get why you are insisting on this law for our deities not to walk the world. Why bother with stats at all if all we will do is roleplay, sit behind and let the mortals do things? Plus as i said, making an avatar takes one year. Even if we all gain Divine Ranks equally, this still means that the first chance we get, we have to take the Avatar SLA or be screwed.

Either take it and make an avatar, or don't go to earth at all. In other words, you are making the Avatar SLA compulsory and i as a player am against such DMing. RP wise i can see NO justification at all. The whole concpept (you can see it on page 1 in this thread) for Heliasillyel was for her to be an involved deity. Not some distant, _sacrifice your son to me - just kidding HAHA_ type of God, but rather one that on occasion, walks amongst her people.

The Greyhawk and Forgotten Realms pantheons haven't slaughtered each other. In fact, there were two canonical "god wars" in the FR setting.

One was the Time of Troubles, artificially added in to introduce DnD 3.0 to the setting (but was cool in it's own way)

And then the Spellplague, also artificially pulled out of WOTC's arse to introduce DnD 4E. The latter actually had the Gods kill each other away from Toril as far as i know.


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Torath is a war god.

He will not agree to any non-intervention rules.  You don't tell a god of war he can't war.  That's when he starts raging his armies all over creation rampant.  >.>

Now, if you give him a place where he CAN have all the battle and training and the like he wants, and ask him nicely not to rampage across the new world, that's a different matter entirely.

As for mechanics, I had no idea we'd be progressing on such a scale.  Are we going to gain trait points at any point along our progression?

Also: Can we 'save' trait points?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

Remember that your Deity is still Good aligned. Marching his armies across the world for the sake of War alone would make him Evil. Your portfolio does not compel you to do things. A God of Death doesn't go around slaying everything that moves for example.


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Remember that your Deity is still Good aligned. Marching his armies across the world for the sake of War alone would make him Evil. Your portfolio does not compel you to do things. A God of Death doesn't go around slaying everything that moves for example.




True, but the thing is, if they are restraining my character in such a way as to force him to go against his nature, why would he tolerate it?  He'd fight to defend his right to exert himself in some fashion.


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## Sunking (Feb 23, 2010)

now that you bring forgotten up you just help my argument because every time a god have died in toril it have resulted i great turmolt, and when it have happend while the god walked the world the turmolt even greater.

Im not askin for non-interference, one can still walk untill DR 6 and then you can make a avartar (if you have chosen that DSA)

Yes it will almost automatic become compulsory to take DSA if the rule is accepted just like alter reality is now, but that aint throu DM'ning but throu roleplaying and i have hinted more than once that you could come with a counter idea...

and Torath  souch a place you talk about: your realm (which can be any way you like almost) 

and Rathan for the followers i haven't got a clue


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Sunking said:


> now that you bring forgotten up you just help my argument because every time a god have died in toril it have resulted i great turmolt, and when it have happend while the god walked the world the turmolt even greater.
> 
> Im not askin for non-interference, one can still walk untill DR 6 and then you can make a avartar (if you have chosen that DSA)
> 
> ...




If Torath's realm can be as such, then he'd have little reason to care for the world as a whole unless someone lured him into intereference, or someone violated the rules of his realm under sanction from another god.  Otherwise, he'd simply appear on battlefields of mortal making, just to participate.  >.>

As for compulsory SDA's... while I had considered Avatar myself, I don't like it being compulsory.  I doubt Torath would qualify for Alter Reality, so... I don't really want that compulsory either.  Torath would much rather fight martially than rely on magic.


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## Rathan (Feb 23, 2010)

Sunking... I'm going to have to put my foot down and agree with the other players here. You can't expect to ask us to create this world in our image, putting forth the time and effort into creating it, only to tell us we can never touch the fruits of our labor. Lavaria would tell you to "get bent buddy" in her own words in her little mean evil way in this regard. She's here to create her little space on this planet to remind her of the home of the elemental plane of fire she can never return to. She would just refuse if you told her she can't touch or be a part of this new world she's helping create. Mind you I don't think it's a wise idea to have us visit as a COMMON occurrence. On occasion when we feel like visiting the surface (weather in another form or not.. that's OUR choice) or be it a dire emergency, *I* feel we have the right as those beings that FUEL this planet we should be able to GRACE this planet with our presence as we see fit... it's OUR world.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

> now that you bring forgotten up you just help my argument because every time a god have died in toril it have resulted i great turmolt, and when it have happend while the god walked the world the turmolt even greater.



I beg to differ but it strengthens my own argument only. Both events were artificially staged by Wizards of the coast to justify the changing of the rule system. Since we don't do stupidity like that we don't need some far fetched, "Lord AO's tablets got stolen, OH NO!" or some such. 

The Olympian gods hated each other's guts, were constantly descending amongst the mortals and meddling in their affairs, why not use that as guidance? What, next you'll tell us we can't seduce mortals and have offspring? That's a common occurrence in every mythology i've ever read, and i believe i've read more than your average person.

What i'm saying is, let's have the freedom to do as we want. Playing a God is all about freedom isn't it?


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

The primary difference between D&D gods and Olympian gods is, if I recall correctly, olympian gods can't die... no mortal can go hunt down Zeus and beat him down.

That said, I made a wargod because I wanted him to march onto the battlefield and do epic battle.  If he's not allowed that, it sortof defeats the purpose.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

If a mortal was capable of Planar Travel to get to Mount Olympus and had the power to slay a God he technically could. Ancient Greeks however, were quite mortal and human. Almost every hero in Ancient Greek Mythology has either Divine parentage on one side, or a Divine benefactor.

Hercules - Son of Zeus. Perseus - Son of Poseidon. Achiles - Son of a Nymph and bathed in the rive Styx etc. They didn't stand a chance either, but at least managed to kill off some monsters that were distant kin to the Gods, since most Greek monsters are either spawned by the blood of Uranus, or are offspring of Typhon and Echidna. But they lacked the power, not the option to kill off Gods.

How this relates to our world? No mortal will stand a chance to kill any one of our characters. Not even a level 80 Lich. We get Portfolio Sense, we can see in to the future and be forewarned, we get Salient Life and Death abilities. Mortals are fodder before our characters.

I'm no expert on Epic Spellcasting (so not sure if it can be a real threat to a powered up DR10+ God) but Sunking did get to ban that as well. I reckon, he really wants to be no chance of a God dying.


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> I'm no expert on Epic Spellcasting (so not sure if it can be a real threat to a powered up DR10+ God) but Sunking did get to ban that as well. I reckon, he really wants to be no chance of a God dying.




I don't know about the rest of you, but... Torath wouldn't have anything to fear from a non-divine* spellcaster... since he can use Anti-magic Shell or something like that at-will.

* by non-divine, I mean spells cast by an non-god.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

What exactly is Anti-magic Shell? I know about Antimagic Field, sort of a broken spell, legacy from AD&D or so i've heard. But it is a double-edged sword. Anyway, Epic Spells can't be taken down so easily:

A lucky nonepic spellcaster casting greater dispel magic might be able to dispel an epic spell. The game mechanics do not change, and epic spells do not occupy any privileged position allowing them to resist being dispelled other than their presumably high caster level. Likewise, epic spells using the dispel seed can dispel nonepic spells. Such epic spells use the same game mechanic: The check to dispel is 1d20 + a specified number (usually dispeller’s level), and the DC is 11 + the spellcaster’s level.

Antimagic field does not automatically suppress epic spells as it does standard spells. Instead, each time an epic spell is subject to an antimagic field, make a dispel check as a 20th-level caster (1d20 + 20). The epic spell has a DC of 11 + the epic spell’s spellcaster level. If the suppression check is successful, the epic spell is suppressed like any other spell. If the dispel check is unsuccessful, the epic spell functions normally.


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## Sunking (Feb 23, 2010)

ok its not that i don't want gods to die
The prime reason is that sirion think that mortals should be allowed to live free and not having gods running around messing their world up, all the arguments are just to try to win some suport for his way of thinkin (remember lawfull) and secondly I diden't think that I would pass when i suggested it but sirion had to try.

About epic spells thats just so broken the factors you can use to reduce the DC with are among some of the tings that gods have no problem with, so in no time you could have +10 permanent to all stats just to mention a little flaw normaly it undeath that are extra good at reducing this DC but beside the no need for sleep and food we also have XP each week to burn a Whole church who can sacrifice spell slots and the gold to make these spells, personaly I woulden't allow it to normal PC's and we have just so many more bonuses 
secondly it realy boosts casters with nothing coming close to the same for the non-casters


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 23, 2010)

OK I know this is getting off-topic but what _can _one do with Epic Spellcasting? I can see that it really disadvantages non-spellcasters, I just can't see what's so strong about it. The example spells in the SRD are all... mediocre.


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## Theroc (Feb 23, 2010)

Was referring to the field, was going on memory which is faulty.  Anyways, I suppose it'd still be a threat somewhat, but it'd still make hurting Torath with mortal magic difficult.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 23, 2010)

Sunking, I don't think you understand the nature of the Metropolis Lucid. It is indeed within the realm of dreams, once you go through the city gates you come into the realm of dreams. That region is called the first dreaming this is where anyone can come and go as the please but to get to where actual dreams happen you must go through the Gate Chimeric and get past the guards. 

So it makes his city able to be entered by mortals but not the realm that matters, is this ok to have?


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## Rathan (Feb 24, 2010)

What it SEEMS Frozen is saying Sunking is that the castle is an ACTUAL psychical place on the planet that is can be accessed by mortals and in slight effected mood and culture wise by the realm of dreams HOWEVER. his actual realm of dreams starts at the portal within the city. Does that sum it up FM?

On a side note.. I love the idea because it gives the mortals a city to discover someday. I fully made city almost like a standing ancient city perfectly preserved. awesome concept..


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 24, 2010)

Rathan said:


> What it SEEMS Frozen is saying Sunking is that the castle is an ACTUAL psychical place on the planet that is can be accessed by mortals and in slight effected mood and culture wise by the realm of dreams HOWEVER. his actual realm of dreams starts at the portal within the city. Does that sum it up FM?
> 
> On a side note.. I love the idea because it gives the mortals a city to discover someday. I fully made city almost like a standing ancient city perfectly preserved. awesome concept..




Thakee sai, Rathan it's mighty kinda ya ta be doin' me dis little favor (sorry just ffelt like talking like a cowboy, Duretep is rubbing off on me )


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

Geez Sunking ok you were the original instigator of this game. Do you still remember the point to the game? Us (aka the players) roleplaying Gods. The _mortals_ are NPCs. They are a byproduct. Why are you trying to safeguard them, limit our power, give them means to kill us, etc? What is the point i fail to see your logic honestly help me out here.

We play Gods.
Gods are superior to mortals.
Gods can use their power to rule over mortals, or meddle in their affairs.
Gods can kill mortals by the bucketloads if they choose so.
Gods represent the ultimate freedom, a playground only to ourselves. We can do what we could have never done in a standard game.

You suggest:

We leave the mortals to fend for themselves, let them evolve and work things out.
We don't enter the world in full form because it's a catastrophic event if a God dies.
We give the mortals a means of killing Gods via some uber depleted uranium swords.

It seems to me that you contradict yourself. Do YOU want to play a God or do you want to see HM develop a world of mortals and eat popcorn, watching from the side? And don't bring in the challenge argument, since HM already said he got that covered.

If Sirion wants to be the observant, uninvolved type - fine. Heliasillyel is his total opposite in that regard, and i fail to see why you want to push some unified standard.


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## Sunking (Feb 24, 2010)

[sblock=epic spell broke]
myth you asked what u could make with it:
In short everything 

With the armor seed you could make
+38 armor as spell mage armor DC 35 spellcraft
+7 Insight bonus to AC DC 45 spellcraft
+7 Divine bonus to AC DC 45 spellcraft
+7 Deflection bonus to AC DC 45 spellcraft
Each of these spells would be personal take 100 days to cast require 9 followers who puts a 9th lvl slot in the spell but the they would be permanent.

with the reflect seed
As a immediate action no somatic or verbal costing 20000 XP, 24 hours duration or to expended.
Reflect any one spell cast on the god even AOE and/or epic back at caster DC 61 spellcraft 
Reflect 50 attacks back at attacker DC 45 Spellcraft 

And that’s when I am keeping the DC down were Sirion could just take 10.

And that’s just 2 out of 24 seeds with which to make spells and that’s before going into the places were no one should go.
[/sblock]

I know im playing him very Lawfull but thats it im roleplaying him just as you are roleplaying your gods, and no i dont wanna sit back a look at HM playing puppet teater for us but I have my reasons and I dont expect that Sirion gets his will in all im expecting opposition since we are allot of difrend allignments and philosofies.

and frozen if you would want ten cityes just go for it in the mist im not co-dm only player, only thing that might get in the way would be the rules about divine realms (since it must be one one plane) but in the RP you just beat me in the head with a stick

And no im not trying to be a *** im actulia having fun in the mist, only a little disapointed that we have to go here so much.

unified standard sounds like somthing mighty lawfull to me


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## Rathan (Feb 24, 2010)

rp you character as you see fit Sunking... we're not judging you here for that.... out characters might IC though... however that's just it... it's just rp


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Both events were artificially staged by Wizards of the coast to justify the changing of the rule system.




Just an aside to the argument but the Avatar series of modules (the whole Time of Troubles storyline) was published in 1989, almost ten years before Wizards bought TSR and eleven years before the introduction of 3.0.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

Wow.. These Epic Spells are scary stuff to be sure. Now Sunking, i can see the unified standard being your God's desire as a Lawful being, but answer me here (not as Sirion):



> The _mortals_ are NPCs. They are a byproduct. Why are you trying to safeguard them, limit our power, give them means to kill us, etc? What is the point i fail to see your logic honestly help me out here.



 I really don't understand. Banishing us, killing us, us not interfering. What is the point? Why are the mortals so important to you, as a player? Why are you trying to equalize the power ratio between Gods and mortals? I just don't see any merit in such actions, i cam here to play a god and not be prone at the whim of a gnat.


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## Theroc (Feb 24, 2010)

I don't understand why Sirion himself has such a vested interest in giving mortals a trump card over the gods... but Torath wouldn't even care IC to ask.  He'd just refuse to agree.


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## Sunking (Feb 24, 2010)

see sirion was a motal who acendet to godhood tru self disiplin (at least thats what he thinks) so he belives that all mortals should have that chance, he alo belives that if the gods keeps running around changing the world and rules all the time it will muck up the world and the mortals (specely the gods not as self-disiplined as himself).


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

Are you even reading my posts? I asked you to answer as a player, not as your character!  I don't care about the balance of power between Gods and mortals, I don't care about giving each farmer and swineherd a chance to ascend to Godhood because I came to this game to *play as a God*. Not one of the other Pantheons, both real world and DnD, has stuff like mortals capable of banishing Gods and steel that can kill Gods and so on. We don't need this kind of power balance, pre-determined restrictions and so on. We are the Gods, we are far far out of the reach of any mortal being, this is the essence of this game.

Everyone chose their back story and let's just leave it as that - as flavor. HM can decide whether and how new Gods will ascend, if he decides it, he can always write in a new God. He doesn't need power scaling and some great Hippie equalization movement to promote mortals that can stab Gods and take their powers.


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## Theroc (Feb 24, 2010)

Sunking said:


> see sirion was a motal who acendet to godhood tru self disiplin (at least thats what he thinks) so he belives that all mortals should have that chance, he alo belives that if the gods keeps running around changing the world and rules all the time it will muck up the world and the mortals (specely the gods not as self-disiplined as himself).





Haha, Torath ascended by clawing his way on top of the corpsepile, as a former mortal... so he doesn't believe in coddling them.


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## Rathan (Feb 24, 2010)

Wow look at the one wanting all the rules looking for shoot from the hip rules-less power Gods and Goddess'. *winks*

On a side note... the only reason Lavaria is going along with Sirion would be that you attract more bees with honey rather than vinegar. Why make enemies when you can make allies to stab in the back later on hehe... it's just a game y'all


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> I asked you to answer as a player, not as your character!




I would say Sunking cares as a player because it is important to his character based on the backstory for Sirion as presented.  That should be enough for all of us.

(Also, I'm at work and haven't had the chance to read the IC in hours and I sense that I am likely missing something Sirion presented in the Grey Mist.)


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## Sunking (Feb 24, 2010)

the reason you are asking fore myth must then be: flyff and roleplay
And its not to be a *** as I have already stated, so I you find Sirion to anoying and do not wish to be creating a world with him just say I don't wanna break this concept I wiuld rather make another god then.

I did not answer as Sirion, I answered why Sirion did what he did, why I as a Player vent that way.


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

If the other gods refuse to accept Sirion's rule of not walking the earth bodily after they become lesser gods, and if they refuse to allow a metal that can kill the gods, is that a deal breaker for Sirion?  Would you have Sirion leave and not be a part of this creation if he can't have these things?

Is there nothing else that Sirion would want for the world?

I understand he is the god of civilization which means the advancement of 'human'-kind (or sentient races as a whole, however he looks at it) and therefore wants to give those sentients the freedom to achieve the potential they have for growth and enlightenment without overt influence from the gods.  I just think there has got to be a way to give Sirion something he wants that doesn't automatically bind or cause detriment to every other god even if they don't agree.

I _like_ Sirion.  He brings a needed portfolio to the world.  I think he could be a good ally for Ubariya (of course, Ubariya thinks most of the other deities could be good allies under the right circumstances).  Sirion, however, is probably the one deity that holds the most similar ethical and moral beliefs as her.  What I'm saying is I don't want you to give up on Sirion just because none of us agree with you on this.  Frankly Ubariya is afraid it might be necessary to take this step but she is also unwilling to limit herself in this way at this point in time.


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## Sunking (Feb 24, 2010)

It wont be a deal breaker no, its just when the attacks begin to come in this tread instead of the RP tread I thing i might have stepped some people on their toes, and I would rather retire Sirion and make a new god than lose a player at this time of the campagien...

and oh yea Sirion can be quiet stuborn (as I said earlyer LAWFULL NEUTRAL) 

Personal I find Batman so much more fun to play then superman!


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## Theroc (Feb 24, 2010)

To be clear, I as a player am not bothered by Sirion's terms(though were I in my characters position I too would balk), but I must say there's no way Torath would ever agree to handing someone something with which to kill him.  

As for the year and a day, I'll have to post more on that.  I can see him agreeing more to something like that, though he'd likely desire the ability to at the very least have his Avatar roam while he was 'confined' to his own realm due to the rejection of his own creations...(should he take the Avatar SDA).


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

As the player of one lawful deity to another: Sirion and Ubariya are more likely to be constrained by their nature to keep any oath they make than any of the non-lawful deities (and Sirion and Ubariya are the only lawful deities!).  Moral: be careful making oaths!  Ubariya has probably already made a couple that will come back to haunt her 

Idea for Sirion:  It seems to me that Sirion's greatest potential threats/enemies are Lavaria (the only god that doesn't have something tied to civilization in her portfolio) and Duretep (because madness seems to be opposed to Sirion's brand of enlightenment).  Add crystals to Sirion's portfolio (he already has an Emerald Bastion after all).  Formed from chaos but a potential tool against madness (by increasing the power of the enlightened mind).  Doesn't help the _current_ situation but widens Sirion's arsenal, so to speak.

*Everyone:* HolyMan suggested to me (after I PM'd him on a related matter) that we keep a record of the oaths we make in our character sheets in the Rogues Gallery.  Thought I would throw this out there before we get too many pages past where we make/made the oaths.

Theroc: At the moment, Torath's charisma is 15 1 points too low to take the Avatar SDA.  Since HolyMan hasn't posted anything about stat increases you might consider that when Torath makes his reply.  Edit: Didn't see his Special Traits...


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

Fair enough if Sunking is RPing that's all i need 

Rathan: I insisted on rules for character creation, because we as players must have strict boundaries so that we all end up in the same power levels and visualize the same things that a God can do. 

I don't want equalization between Gods and mortals just like i wouldn't want the PCs in a campaign I play in to be measured against every commoner they meet.

Basically I'm on the same boat as Heliasillyel on this one... Damn, she is too close to my own character _on some levels_. I miss my Chaotic Neutral Minotaur that I had in CM's game 

Oh on the side note, I don't want to see Siron go and I'm not going anywhere either. The worst that could happen is that we have some sort of Divine War at world creation, similar to the Titanomachy.


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

I just want to say to all of you that I am having an awesome time with this game!  RP is great; OOC discussions are thought-provoking.

Thanks!


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## Sunking (Feb 24, 2010)

dammm dont got time to answer until tomorrow have to go play tabletop dammmm, im having so much funn to, thanx


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

Never had the option of playing tabletop, DnD is not exactly popular here. How does the DM handle the descriptions? He must surely be eloquent to provide detail, realism and immersion that can rival that of a written entry that one has had time to think over.


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

It doesn't always (ususlly?) work out like that, Myth.  Things are frequently sketchy or poorly described.  Imagination fills in though.

Note to self: don't stay up until 5:30 in the morning posting on ENWorld again.


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## HolyMan (Feb 24, 2010)

I have created a Divine Monster with this LOL 

The IC thread is 8 days old and has 7 pages (and would have more if VV wasn't on vacation). How am I to keep up, was telling GlassEye I may need to NPC one god to at least have a way to OOC in the IC.  

Ok was catching up everything but this and Spider's Path, so to help out can everyone repost any questions they really need answered, just post a link to your post if you need to and I will put answering all questions on my ASAP list. 

Also any deals bargains and such that you make IC have to then be posted in your RG post. So I can go over them. Darn I haven't even finished with character as of yet. 

Remember you will be asking The Forger to create the "world body" and it does not have to be typical. But what you wish to ask be created by him should be listed with a note to remind me to put it into the "World So Far..." post in the IC. 

Ok please help me, help you. LOL 

HM


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## Theroc (Feb 24, 2010)

Glasseye said:
			
		

> Theroc: At the moment, Torath's charisma is 15 1 points too low to take the Avatar SDA. Since HolyMan hasn't posted anything about stat increases you might consider that when Torath makes his reply. Edit: Didn't see his Special Traits...




I haven't allocated special traits nor have I determined levelling attribute increases.  I was debating on class, as if I chose paladin... well... I would NEED wisdom, either by items or raw class in order to cast spells as a paladin.  At this point for simplicities sake, I'll probably go fighter, and just hope I don't end up underpowered in comparison to all these spellcasting dieties as happens in standard D&D.  

Thanks for pointing that out, however... Glasseye.


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## GlassEye (Feb 24, 2010)

Oh, so those were Myth's pc traits.    I pushed Ubariya's charisma as far as I could without seriously hurting her physical stats (and then had to push it a little farther so she made the requirements for Avatar).  She isn't as combat focused as Torath but she is by no means a spellcaster deity (I consider her more ranger-like).  I also worry that the spellcasters are going to totally outclass her in the future.  

Have you decided what Torath looks like yet?  Remember, HM says that your base appearance can be anything just special abilities/attacks have to be purchased with trait points.  You could even do a thing like Voda Vosa and have an alternate form.  I started to do that but decided shapechange would fit my plan better.

I'm not sure how it compares to other pc's but Ubariya has spent 9 pts in physical abilities, 2 pts. in spell-like abilities, and 9 pts. in physical statistics like Chr, Dex, etc.  And I'm not sure I made the right decision, lol.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

OK HM get ready. I trust you will read the whole IC thread? Don't miss the creation of the moon, Glass Eye definitely did a superb job! Now to the tastk(s) at hand:

Need your ruling on followers. My suggestion it's incomplete and hastily written, but rewarding 1000 x some modifier number of followers seems adequate? Anyway if you tell is "I got it covered" that will be enough, although mechanics would be better 

On our weapons - this was/is a can of worms. My problem an subsequent proposed solution and it's detailed explanation.

Need to know how you are planning our advancement in DR, Levels and Ability Scores. One level per month means we will have to play for 40 months to reach the heights of the likes of Correlon Larethian or Mystra or Zeus.

Deities have crazy crazy ability scores = 30-40 in several, with a couple reaching 40 to even 60. How will we get those?

DR will be correlated with the number of followers we have?


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## Theroc (Feb 24, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Oh, so those were Myth's pc traits.    I pushed Ubariya's charisma as far as I could without seriously hurting her physical stats (and then had to push it a little farther so she made the requirements for Avatar).  She isn't as combat focused as Torath but she is by no means a spellcaster deity (I consider her more ranger-like).  I also worry that the spellcasters are going to totally outclass her in the future.
> 
> Have you decided what Torath looks like yet?  Remember, HM says that your base appearance can be anything just special abilities/attacks have to be purchased with trait points.  You could even do a thing like Voda Vosa and have an alternate form.  I started to do that but decided shapechange would fit my plan better.
> 
> I'm not sure how it compares to other pc's but Ubariya has spent 9 pts in physical abilities, 2 pts. in spell-like abilities, and 9 pts. in physical statistics like Chr, Dex, etc.  And I'm not sure I made the right decision, lol.




I'm going to be getting a friend to edit the picture that HM posted as an base.  Not sure when it will be completed.  Like I said, my main worry is keeping Torath roughly equivalent to the others in power without sacrificing his theme.  As... the primary motivator of his hostility is becoming unassailable.  If he realizes he as it another's mercy... well... he starts making bad and rash decisions.

Basically, I'm hoping to invest a load on getting Torath to be resistant to spellcasting, as it would definitely be his weakpoint in a fight, lol.  Not sure how to do it, since Epic spellcasting can apparently ignore an anti-magic field sometimes.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 24, 2010)

Oh don't worry about Epic Spellcasting Sunking banned that on day 1 

You shouldn't worry too much about magic, here are all the immunities we get:

A deity is immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters its form, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Mind-Affecting Effects,

Deities of rank 1 or higher are also immune to electricity, cold, acid, disease, poison,
stunning, sleep, paralysis, death effects and disintegration.

Deities of rank 6 or higher are immune to effects that imprison or banish them. Such effects include banishment, binding, dimensional anchor, dismissal, imprisonment, repulsion

You also get a lot of Spell Resistance. So a caster can't do that much without Epic Spells. He can Time Stop (which you can easily get as a SLA), Gate in some fodder Demons or Angels, and possibly target you with a Vitriolic Orb (which is a SC spell anyway so he probably won't have it). 

Meanwhile you have tons of HP, high saves and attack for 6 or 7 attacks per round with impressive BAB.

What could potentially get you is a bad Will save vs Divine Bardic Music D), another Deity killing you with his own stick +6, or Salient abilities. And of course, deities with a higher DR.


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## Theroc (Feb 25, 2010)

Ah, and here I was about to spend a load of Trait points developing energy resistances, lol


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 25, 2010)

Theroc Heliasillyel proposed we give certain mortals the power to summon us in a demiplane that is otherwise inaccessible, so that we may hear their pleas. So no banishments - whatever sanctions will be imposed will be for us to decide. Of course she will chose the one with such power among the Sun Elves, just as the others will choose one out of their own followers. 

You should edit your post accordingly (remove the "banish" part, as that's something she'd not agree to)


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## Theroc (Feb 25, 2010)

Edited.


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## Rathan (Feb 25, 2010)

HM I will re-post my simple design for a follower mechanic tomorrow.. I have to be up WAY earlier tomorrow for work than I normally have to... so for now I will go watch the backs of my eyelids for a short while... I have a nice simple mechanic for it so before you going making any decisions either take a look back a ways at it or wait for me to re-post it.

If you see any other questions that come up just pop them in here and we can all discuss it.. or you can say "hey.. my game... this is how it's gonna be done... get bent "


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## HolyMan (Feb 25, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> OK HM get ready. I trust you will read the whole IC thread? Don't miss the creation of the moon, Glass Eye definitely did a superb job! Now to the tastk(s) at hand:




Yes I saw the moon creation and how it's phases are represented. your right superb.


> Need your ruling on followers. My suggestion it's incomplete and hastily written, but rewarding 1000 x some modifier number of followers seems adequate? Anyway if you tell is "I got it covered" that will be enough, although mechanics would be better [/qoute]
> 
> Followers will be based on this world alone it is one of the reasons you start at DR0 as transplating and or creating followers takes time. I will wait for rathan's proposal and see if I can incorpate any into my own thoughts. Like spending xp on follower creation kind of like making a magic item. But there will be mechanics so it is fair across the board.
> 
> ...




great weapon concept  terrible paper work for divine weapons  

It would work I am sure but since we are playing using deities and demigods and I don't want to go through and change all those weapons we will stick with the 128k gp, which you could use to buy ammuntion instead of the bow. You said the bow is fluff and it could stay that way, spend your money on the amumuntion and later on you could craft/create more as needed. Also I have planned uping the weapons as the Characters advance but only as rewards maybe you help someone who then in turn adds to your weapon. 



> Need to know how you are planning our advancement in DR, Levels and Ability Scores. One level per month means we will have to play for 40 months to reach the heights of the likes of Correlon Larethian or Mystra or Zeus.
> 
> Deities have crazy crazy ability scores = 30-40 in several, with a couple reaching 40 to even 60. How will we get those?
> 
> DR will be correlated with the number of followers we have?




See you want me to give away all the fun before we even have the world created?? Let's just say somewhere on your new little world there will be a place similar to the Library of Alexandria- And maybe if you young godlings are lucky you will find it and not only add to your mythos, but spend time reading of great _Tomes_ and _Manuals _that will add to your divine status.

Ok all the meta-game you get ML no more questions about what I plan plz 

I don't understand you want to play gods and you want to start out as powerful as Zeus, Odin and all the rest. Then what would you do? My plan was to start small build your own stories and legends so when you do hit that "level" it is ok to sit back and watch the mortals squirm you have done teh impossible ten times over.

Stats don't make the character it is all soul and heart, and luck at Invisible Castle. 

Yes you will have a new spot in your character sheet labeled: NoF (Number of Followers) and you should list your Divine rank somewhere also.

HM


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## Sunking (Feb 25, 2010)

Just a side node before ill go to the RP sektion and stir up the pot  I seems to be good at that

Myth have a valid point about stats at later points, because of the many DSA requiring so high stats, and also the case of a greater god with 7 i wis realy falls throu.

Solution easy: give gods a stat bonus to all stats equal to DR (when i did the math on zeus and friends i found out that was how they were build + mesly 25 points)​


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 25, 2010)

> It would work I am sure but since we are playing using deities and demigods



Which didn't stop us from using trait points.


> I don't want to go through and change all those weapons



Which weapons are you referring to?


> to buy ammuntion instead of the bow



Yes but where do i get the bow from? 


> See you want me to give away all the fun before we even have the world created?? Let's just say somewhere on your new little world there will be a place similar to the Library of Alexandria- And maybe if you young godlings are lucky you will find it and not only add to your mythos, but spend time reading of great _Tomes_ and _Manuals _that will add to your divine status.



Tomes? For Gods? And who put that Library there if we created the world? Certainly not the forger, why would he care, being an Overdeity and all. Plus Heliasillyel is not young - her RP background is that of an old Deity, that sent this aspect of herself to the Mist as a means of expanding her influence and escaping boredom. Her advances in DR will be more like widening the connection between her current self and her Greater Deity self in another Crystal Sphere, than gaining power she has never had before and reinventing the wheel.

I like Sunking's idea based on research of DD, DR to Ability Scores seems OK.



> Ok all the meta-game you get ML no more questions about what I plan plz



 I know how it is and i'm grateful for you guys not asking stuff about VOTD, the only one that knows part of the story in advance is Scott DeWar.



> Stats don't make the character it is all soul and heart, and luck at Invisible Castle.



Ah well normally i would agree in full, but for Gods that doesn't seem to be the case. DR16 and up we don't need to roll anymore, save to check Critical Hit threats. Even before that, Gods as per DD have so many bonuses to skill checks and attack rolls, coming form high Ability Scores + Divine Rank + Character Levels that a 1 to 20 becomes much less off the total. For example, if a Deity has an attack bonus of 86, 1d20 is roughly 1/5 off the total result. A mortal that has an attack bonus of 10 - then 1d20 is a full two thirds of the total result.

Plus there are other tings:

Deities of rank 1 or higher do not automatically fail on a natural attack roll of 1.

[sblock=Saving throws]Saving Throws: A deity’s outsider Hit Dice and character level determine its base saving throw bonuses. A deity gets its divine rank as a divine bonus on all saving throws. Deities of rank 1 or higher do not automatically fail on a natural saving throw roll of 1.[/sblock]
Which reminds me, you changed that from a Divine bonus to saving throws to a Luck bonus. Was that intentional?

[sblock=Automatic Actions]Automatic Actions: Deities don’t need to make skill checks as often as mortals do. When performing an action within its portfolio, a deity can perform any action as a free action, as long as the check DC is equal to or less than the number on the table below. The number of free actions a deity can perform each round is also determined by the deity’s divine rank.[/sblock]

I've listed my DR, NOF will come too once we get followers.


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## Rathan (Feb 25, 2010)

Back in This Post I suggested my very very simple yet variable based on player actions rolls and what such for followers.... rather than having you click I'll just quote here as well.



			
				Rathan said:
			
		

> May I suggest you handwave the acquisition of followers in a manner such as this.... granted.. this IS a semi random way of doing it but this way it's fair as everyone has a shot to get different amounts of followers each time we roll for it...
> 
> Weekly Roll for Followers: 1d6x(100 or 1000... put a number here you feel is worthy) followers per week...
> 
> Each week the DM takes into account what the God or Goddess has done for it's followers or the world itself to appease it's followers.... the DM would then assign bonus (or negative depending on the deities actions mind you) d6's to the initial roll that will also be multiplied by 100 or 1000 or whatever multiplier the DM feels like using... this way some may advance further faster... some may fall behind... it's completely up to the DM to decide based on RP and interaction between the deities and their followers and the world itself....




I don't think I have any other questions myself.... or other comments... I'm sure I will come up with some at some point soonish heh...


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## Theroc (Feb 25, 2010)

Question:  How do I determine the die size for Torath's natural attacks if I use trait points to grant them?

Edit: Nevermind, I just use the MM categories... not those listed under half Dragon... doh!

Edit#2: How do I determine the die size and number for a breath weapon?


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## GlassEye (Feb 25, 2010)

Wow, Sunking.  Your persistence is astounding.  The chance for Sirion to make a large impact on the initial creation of our world is rapidly fading.  I understand Sirion is lawful.  Lawful doesn't mean stubborn to the point of harming yourself, though.  Unless, of course, that is the way you want to play it.  If you are interested in Ubariya's (lawful) point of view (and why she objects to what you've had Sirion propose) I would be glad to post it.


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## Theroc (Feb 25, 2010)

By the way, Glasseye, I can see a note of cooperation between Torath and Ubariya already, just due to their natures.  Torath is a God of War, which will definitely give Ubariya a chance to recycle souls.  

Not sure if Ubariya would like the frequency during the wars, but Torath isn't a battlecrazed lunatic either, so there'd need to be a cause.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 25, 2010)

@Theroc and Glasseye: This could be interesting, because Duretep and Ubariya have gained an interesting alliance of sorts, could this become a powerful triumvrat of sorts

About our places in the world, I believe that we should skip how the gods will affect the world and move on to making races for this world. This means that we have something to lose if someone were to come down and we can than understand our spheres of influence better.


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## Theroc (Feb 26, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> @Theroc and Glasseye: This could be interesting, because Duretep and Ubariya have gained an interesting alliance of sorts, could this become a powerful triumvrat of sorts
> 
> About our places in the world, I believe that we should skip how the gods will affect the world and move on to making races for this world. This means that we have something to lose if someone were to come down and we can than understand our spheres of influence better.




Haha, I'm not sure, it seems Lavaria's got her eye on Torath too.  A tangled Divine web.  Reminds me of greek mythology already.

As for races, yeah, might be a good idea.


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## Sunking (Feb 26, 2010)

The problem was that Sirion was Awfull lawfull and stubborn, when I thought him up he became so becaus the need to regain his memory and the danger in his world, he would waith to commite until he meant he would win but when commited there were no going back. 

So when what he felt was only fair was time and time agein denied him he just became more and more angry and stubborn to the point were I just coulden't go back without betraying his concept.

So ill be making a new god now!


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## GlassEye (Feb 26, 2010)

Sunking said:
			
		

> So ill be making a new god now!




What!?  Are you serious?  Sirion can't have what he wants (which was of a totally different scale than anything anybody else asked for) so you're going to throw him out and make a new character?


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## Sunking (Feb 26, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> What!? Are you serious? Sirion can't have what he wants (which was of a totally different scale than anything anybody else asked for) so you're going to throw him out and make a new character?




different scale? well one wantet a sun, i wanted a pagt or 100 swords or one chosen of each race or a set of laws made by us all

Sirions requsts were so that it would still be equal for all. 

1) He was a little to carved out in rocks I found out.
2) he did try 4 wery difren't requests were you all got your first
3) as he says before leaving about the mortals being playthings and slaves thats somthing he just cant stand
4) no reason to keep playing a carekter that are gonna bring more opstruktion to the game then positive stuff.
5) would rather have a god who were more on the line with the group

a problem I have often run into is that when i create a PC and deside its pesonality then I can't defend to myself betraying this personality to better work withind a group therfor point 5.


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## HolyMan (Feb 26, 2010)

How about we keep Sirion in and I NPC him Sunking???

I think he would stay and try to be a caretaker not giving over to these gods but that puts you at odds with the other players which is a role for an NPC.

HM


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## Sunking (Feb 26, 2010)

it up to you HM the way I see it is he knows that these 8 other gods will use mortals as slaves (in his openion) they are 8 he is one there are better places to use ones energy then on already lost battles, so instead of having to watch these mortals suffer he would rather go somwere else.

But if you wanna keep him as a NPC just say and ill go edit the last post in the mist


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## GlassEye (Feb 26, 2010)

Sunking said:


> different scale? well one wantet a sun, i wanted a pagt or 100 swords or one chosen of each race or a set of laws made by us all
> 
> Sirions requsts were so that it would still be equal for all.




Yes, a different scale.  A sun in no way compares to 100 swords that can kill gods or a chosen one who has the power to cast gods into exile.  We were probably going to end up with night and day anyway; a 'sun' is irrelevent and the story helped create mythology for why what we were having anyway exists.

Honestly, while you believe Sirion's requests were equal for all, they weren't.  Sirion (and Ubariya) are lawful and can easily live with laws.  The other five deities are chaotic and would chafe under imposed laws.  The way to get them to follow law is to bind them with their oaths (which is what Ubariya has tried to do).

Having Sirion disappointed but still staying to protect creation from the other deities is a perfectly valid way to play it and doesn't require you to get a new character.  His rigidness and inflexibility is your doing and you can give him just a _little_ flexibility.  It doesn't break the concept to have him take what concessions he can get from the others and strive to protect mortals anyway.  If this is not to your liking give him to HolyMan (because if we are as powerless in the grey mist as HM has said then your curse is powerless anyway).


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 26, 2010)

Sunking said:


> The problem was that Sirion was Awfull lawfull and stubborn, when I thought him up he became so becaus the need to regain his memory and the danger in his world, he would waith to commite until he meant he would win but when commited there were no going back.
> 
> So when what he felt was only fair was time and time agein denied him he just became more and more angry and stubborn to the point were I just coulden't go back without betraying his concept.
> 
> So ill be making a new god now!




There is no need for you to make a new god, you just decided to have a heavy handed-lawful god with a whole bunch of chaotic minded gods. You can't expect us to agree with laws right away, the idea is making laws that aren't to restrictive. We also don't trust humans half as much as your god does so giving humans any form of power may be difficult to pass it by the other gods. What Sirion needs is to be a little bit more...sneaky and sneaky can still be lawful.


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## Theroc (Feb 26, 2010)

Being a newly ascended quasi-diety, Torath has no desire to suddenly place those he just climbed above back on equal footing with him.

That's sortof like asking a guy who just learned to outrun a cheetah to race people in cars, because it's not fair if they run on foot.



He had no animousity towards Sirion outside of that, up until Sirion 'cursed' us all.


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## Rathan (Feb 26, 2010)

Sunking I'm more than well aware we put sometimes at little more of ourselves into our character than one really should. It makes conflicting situations like this all that much more difficult. However I must say this is indeed bad form and I'm going to call in part on it. Now I was willing to agree to some sort of lawful pact about your Sirion's civilization thing because Lavaria was not willing to make enemies this quickly out the gate (however with her alignment, making enemies is NOT hard for her to do heh). Lawfully aligned people MUST have patience for the fruits of their labor to bare. Sirion should be a deity that stands over us when we make a mistake say "hey.. I told you so... if you had gone with my laws.. this NEVER would have happened... tsk tsk tsk..." laws don't happen over night.. I mean hell look at congress (rolls his eyes). Stuff there takes YEARS... I haven't asked for anything special, because I know that when I do want something I need to be careful and sneaky about getting it. take your time I mean we're going to be at this a LONG time both in the mist and on the planet. You're not going to get everything you ask for right out of the gates. Jump back into playing Sirion, have his head held hight and smile at us all and just say. "you just wait.. I'll be here saying 'I told you so' in no time... 

EDIT: I ASSURE you ( and more than likely it will be Lavaria) at some point someone will do something REALLY bad on the planet and then people will be jumping on board with your whole "hey no more walking the planet guys..." you just wait and see heh...


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 26, 2010)

Rathan said:


> I ASSURE you ( and more than likely it will be Lavaria) at some point someone will do something REALLY bad on the planet and then people will be jumping on board with your whole "hey no more walking the planet guys..." you just wait and see heh...




believe me, just wait for Duretep to make a move. Think of him as Loki, always trying to screw up everything. He is an insane scientist/bond master mind/finger-twitiling mad man, he will always find a way to screw with everyone and all off their plans, just give him time. He may be stuck in another realm but that doesn't mean he is powerless


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## Theroc (Feb 26, 2010)

I think my question got lost in the debates and such.


			
				Theroc said:
			
		

> How do I determine the die size and number for a breath weapon?


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## GlassEye (Feb 26, 2010)

Theroc said:


> By the way, Glasseye, I can see a note of cooperation between Torath and Ubariya already, just due to their natures.  Torath is a God of War, which will definitely give Ubariya a chance to recycle souls.
> 
> Not sure if Ubariya would like the frequency during the wars, but Torath isn't a battlecrazed lunatic either, so there'd need to be a cause.




Certainly!  If there is a war and someone is destined to die, they will die.  If they are destined to live, they will survive it.  It's that simple to Ubariya.  Frequency of war is really not her business.  Now if Torath starts killing mortals during war that are not destined to die yet she's gonna get irate.  But presumably the only mortals Torath is going to be _able_ to kill in battle are ones that are destined to be killed by him.  I have to look at it in that fashion because it is impossible to play any other way, even after she get the _Know Death_ SDA (unless the DM tells me that a mortal dies before their time; I know, I know, it's a staple in fiction...).

In fact, Ubariya may consider (but never say to him, of course) that she considers Torath her tool.  Lot's of people die in war-time which wouldn't happen without her say-so.  Ergo, Torath's wars only happen when she says lots of people are gonna die in war.  Circular logic?  Yep, but a lawful girl's gotta stay sane somehow or she might as well move in with Duretep now.

Now since Ubariya is concerned with the journey of the soul (regardless of who claims it, but she doesn't say that either) I also have to assume that a mortal dies when the soul is ready for the next step of its journey.  Toss in her (eventual) _Know Death_ SDA and you add an odd predestination element to the mix (she knows when a soul is ready to 'advance' because it wouldn't shuck off the body yet if it weren't.  That isn't entirely inappropriate thinking for a lawful deity).

Anyway, that's my rambling way of saying 'I agree!'


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## GlassEye (Feb 26, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> @Theroc and Glasseye: This could be interesting, because Duretep and Ubariya have gained an interesting alliance of sorts, could this become a powerful triumvrat of sorts




If the benefit to Ubariya outweighs the cost she'll make whatever alliance is presented (unless it would make her break the word she has already given to someone else).



			
				Frozen Messiah said:
			
		

> About our places in the world, I believe that we should skip how the gods will affect the world and move on to making races for this world. This means that we have something to lose if someone were to come down and we can than understand our spheres of influence better.




Not sure I agree.  Our real-world myth is full of wars between gods and titan-types that occur before human-kind has arisen.  If the world exists and then HM has an enemy appear our battles could give new shape to the face of the world.  And Torath would have ample opportunity to shine and prove himself to us (not that he has to, of course).  _How about the time that Torath *missed* and his mighty blow sundered the earth and created Ironshard Chasm!_  Or some such thing...


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 26, 2010)

Rathan is right that eventually one puts something of his own character in the hero one is playing. Don't tell me that you will take a hero you have nothing in common and would loathe in real life and play him or her for the sake of diversity only. Playing an assassin has it's own anti-hero cool factor, playing a madman, an evil cleric etc. all have something that appeals to the player.

Thus I'm sure that you Sunking are sympathetic to Sirion's cause  I want to thank Glass Eye for voicing my thoughts in i his post as well:



> A sun in no way compares to 100 swords that can kill gods or a chosen one who has the power to cast gods into exile. We were probably going to end up with night and day anyway; a 'sun' is irrelevent and the story helped create mythology for why what we were having anyway exists.
> 
> Honestly, while you believe Sirion's requests were equal for all, they weren't. Sirion (and Ubariya) are lawful and can easily live with laws. The other five deities are chaotic and would chafe under imposed laws. The way to get them to follow law is to bind them with their oaths (which is what Ubariya has tried to do).



I as a player would hate to see Sirion go because we have already generated momentum with the character and we have invested emotion. It's not good emotion mind you, at least on Heliasillyel's part, but emotion is in itself good for a game, as it makes it more complex and three dimensional.

Now HM submitting my rather mundane weapon for approval. She will be firing regular arrows right now, as 128k is not enough to make enchanted ammunition and an enchanted bow. This got me thinking though, even though the highest of the two enchantment bonuses is applied (weapon or ammo), one can still have for example a Holy Shoking Burst bow with Flaming Seeking arrows and the effects will stack? In essence, a ranged weapon (if money were no object, since spending 90,000 GP on 30 arrows is a lot!) can have 20 enchantment levels instead of the 10 for a non-epic weapon?


Also, the Disruption ability can only be placed on bludgeoning weapons, but i wanted to add some anti-negative energy or undead ability, similar to a Sun blade. How do i get those, and what would they cost?

Also, do i have to buy the mundane arrows for Heliasillyel?  They are 20 arrows for 1 GP, but to buy them will mean i have to give up on a whole enchantment level. I CAN take a Craft skill to have her make her own unenchanted arrows if it is necessary.

[sblock=The Suncaster]*+4 Holy Flaming Burst Composite Longbow [2 STR]*

*Damage (M):* 1d8 (Piercing)  x 3 + 1d6 (Fire) / 2d10 on critical + 4 (Enchantment) + 2 (STR)
*Range:* 110 ft.
*Weight:* 3lb.
*Total enchantment levels:* 8: (+4) +2 (Holy) + 2 (Flaming burst) (128,000 gp.)[/sblock]


Oooh i just noticed there are a lot more extra domains in the Spell Compendium! Those sure can come in handy! Here are all the ones listed in the SC. If anyone of you guys wants to use one of these to better define your deity, let me know and i will post the spells/granted power.

BALANCE, CHARM, COLD, CAVERN, CELERITY, COMMUNITY, COMPETITION, CREATION, COURAGE, DARKNESS, CRAFT, DEATHBOUND, DOMINATION, DROW, DRAGON, DWARF, DREAM, ELF, ENVY, FAMILY, GLORY, GLUTTONY, FATE, FORCE, GNOME, GREED, HUNGER, HALFLING, ILLUSION, HATRED, INQUISITION, LIBERATION, MENTALISM, LUST, METAL, MADNESS, MIND, MOON, NOBILITY, OCEAN, MYSTICISM, ORACLE, ORC, PLANNING, PACT, PORTAL, PESTILENCE, PESTILENCE, PURIFICATION, RUNE, RENEWAL, SCALYKIND, RETRIBUTION, SLIME, SPIDER, SLOTH, STORM, SPELL, SUFFERING, SUMMONER, TYRANNY, TIME, UNDEATH, TRADE, WEALTH, WINDSTORM, ABYSS, WRATH,


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## HolyMan (Feb 26, 2010)

Theroc said:


> I think my question got lost in the debates and such.




I'm on the way to work but I will try and get an answer for you tonight.

hm


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## Theroc (Feb 26, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Rathan is right that eventually one puts something of his own character in the hero one is playing. Don't tell me that you will take a hero you have nothing in common and would loathe in real life and play him or her for the sake of diversity only.




Torath is my expression of my 'righteous wrath'... since I often feel some people deserve a punch in the face, but laws and social pressures make it clear it's unacceptable.  As a God, ain't nobody gonna be able to do much besides shake their head and sigh at his impulsive nature.  



			
				M&L said:
			
		

> Oooh i just noticed there are a lot more extra domains in the Spell Compendium! Those sure can come in handy! Here are all the ones listed in the SC. If anyone of you guys wants to use one of these to better define your deity, let me know and i will post the spells/granted power.
> 
> BALANCE, CHARM, COLD, CAVERN, CELERITY, COMMUNITY, COMPETITION, CREATION, COURAGE, DARKNESS, CRAFT, DEATHBOUND, DOMINATION, DROW, DRAGON, DWARF, DREAM, ELF, ENVY, FAMILY, GLORY, GLUTTONY, FATE, FORCE, GNOME, GREED, HUNGER, HALFLING, ILLUSION, HATRED, INQUISITION, LIBERATION, MENTALISM, LUST, METAL, MADNESS, MIND, MOON, NOBILITY, OCEAN, MYSTICISM, ORACLE, ORC, PLANNING, PACT, PORTAL, PESTILENCE, PESTILENCE, PURIFICATION, RUNE, RENEWAL, SCALYKIND, RETRIBUTION, SLIME, SPIDER, SLOTH, STORM, SPELL, SUFFERING, SUMMONER, TYRANNY, TIME, UNDEATH, TRADE, WEALTH, WINDSTORM, ABYSS, WRATH,




Hm... I'll definitely have to look up these domains, (I have access to the Spell compendium thingy).  I'm thinking Torath might be picking up some additional domains as his SDA's if I can get him the stat prereqs and the like.  There doesn't seem to be too awful many that a straight fighter-based god can take.  No 'Divine Fighter' SDA or anything.  Though... Irresistable Blows and Annihilating Strikes are fairly potent in and of themselves.


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## GlassEye (Feb 26, 2010)

Gahh!  I am so behind on this character.  I still need to finish skills and feats; I've barely begun on her weapon (mostly because I have no clue how to make what she would want); and I have to collect the oaths she's made for posting in the RG.  Sigh.  Well, I suppose that gives me something to do while waiting on resolution of the current situation.


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## Theroc (Feb 26, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Gahh!  I am so behind on this character.  I still need to finish skills and feats; I've barely begun on her weapon (mostly because I have no clue how to make what she would want); and I have to collect the oaths she's made for posting in the RG.  Sigh.  Well, I suppose that gives me something to do while waiting on resolution of the current situation.





I'm still further behind on Torath.  I'm sort of getting bogged down figuring out where I need to get him now so he'll develop later.  Most of the later abilities require skyhigh wisdom and charisma scores... and special class features and the like which are all things Torath will lack.  Kinda makes me concerned.

For a weapon... I assume Torath's 'Favored weapon' can't be a natural one, lol.


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## GlassEye (Feb 26, 2010)

I had have a problem getting bogged down, too.  Finally I had to itemize my goals and look at/list the Salient Divine Abilities I wanted.  Then I had to pare down my list of goals since it just isn't feasible to do everything (I probably still have too much on it).  Then I looked at the prerequisites of SDA's and tried to pare down the one's I didn't think I would ever manage to get.  It's been a painstaking process.

I'm still bogged down with feats.  I could easily spend them all on natural attack type feats.  I'm afraid that will hurt me down the line so I'm hesitating.  Anything else I might be interested in (and there are few of those) I don't meet the prerequisites for.


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## Theroc (Feb 26, 2010)

HM.  I just noticed that your list on monstrous size gives the same penalty and half the benefits that the Monster Manual states.

Was this contradiction an error on your part or an intentional deviation?


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

While we are on the subject, was the bonus Charisma to saves from Deities and Demigods changed from a Divine type bonus to a Luck type bonus on purpouse?


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## Sunking (Feb 27, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Yes, a different scale. A sun in no way compares to 100 swords that can kill gods or a chosen one who has the power to cast gods into exile. We were probably going to end up with night and day anyway; a 'sun' is irrelevent and the story helped create mythology for why what we were having anyway exists.






GlassEye said:


> Honestly, while you believe Sirion's requests were equal for all, they weren't. Sirion (and Ubariya) are lawful and can easily live with laws. The other five deities are chaotic and would chafe under imposed laws. The way to get them to follow law is to bind them with their oaths (which is what Ubariya has tried to do).
> 
> Having Sirion disappointed but still staying to protect creation from the other deities is a perfectly valid way to play it and doesn't require you to get a new character. His rigidness and inflexibility is your doing and you can give him just a _little_ flexibility. It doesn't break the concept to have him take what concessions he can get from the others and strive to protect mortals anyway. If this is not to your liking give him to HolyMan (because if we are as powerless in the grey mist as HM has said then your curse is powerless anyway).





Well looking at it from a characters perspective the power to create a sun which generate warmth and light to power life thru photosynthesis while not burning the world to a crisp and putting it in orbit so there will be days and night, winter and summer compared to changing a the nature of a small potion of iron into having the property [Ignores damage resistance of creatures with divine rank] seems yes on a different scale but the more power consuming of those two seems to me the sun.

Yes from the players perspective it would be the other way around but in the rp section I would always look at it from the character perspective.

And above the curse to things 


HolyMan said:


> And then slowly shadows start to take form, the others are arriving. Here in this place everyone is safe there are no powers or ways to harm each other, here you can discuss and not worry about charms or other influences. You stand in a circle facing all the others, but their features, form, even size is hard to make out.




1) the curse was directed at the world not the other gods a place outside of the mist (whether or not this have any effect is up to HM)
2) In truth the curse aren’t any more than what the gods themselves will do if they continues down the current path:
6 chaotic gods, the closes to a god of knowledge is mad, and even if there is a goddess of new beginnings she will move on to the next beginning and then lady fire will come and destroy. So to Sirion it was more of a warning (said while being mad at the other gods) 




Frozen Messiah said:


> There is no need for you to make a new god, you just decided to have a heavy handed-lawful god with a whole bunch of chaotic minded gods. You can't expect us to agree with laws right away, the idea is making laws that aren't to restrictive. We also don't trust humans half as much as your god does so giving humans any form of power may be difficult to pass it by the other gods. What Sirion needs is to be a little bit more...sneaky and sneaky can still be lawful.



 
Yes that was properly my biggest mistake, to carve the character out in rock before looking at what was going to be in the “party” 
It is important to have some way to fit into a group and with 6 chaotic gods who are a long way from his Awful Lawful and 2 lawful gods that Sirion were properly going to step on the toes soon (by teaching humans a ritual to cheat time and death (Elans)) 

Yes sneaky can be lawful but once committed its all in for Sirion.




Theroc said:


> Being a newly ascended quasi-diety, Torath has no desire to suddenly place those he just climbed above back on equal footing with him.






Theroc said:


> That's sortof like asking a guy who just learned to outrun a cheetah to race people in cars, because it's not fair if they run on foot.
> 
> 
> 
> He had no animousity towards Sirion outside of that, up until Sirion 'cursed' us all.





No of the ideas were on the line of your example, a more correct would be that the mortals got a union spokesman that could call a little blockade if mistreated.

First rule ok after DR6 no more walking the world in true form unless a counsel of at least 2 thirds of the gods voted for: you could have said yes pated Sirion on the head, held a counsel and decided that it would be ok for the next 1000 years to walk in true form.

Second rule godsbane iron: it did not say weapons that would kill a god just by touch It would have been up to the forger aka HM to decide the mechanic (it could have been something like [Ignores damage resistance of creatures with divine rank] which would still require a mortal who could beat the god in single combat) 

Third rule the one Lavaria suggested about a chosen from each mortal race:
If a mortal used the ability there were no rules against sending ones church to kill the person, the persons family, friends and pets then mortals would have thought twice before using it again

Fourth rule the Codex Divine: now all gods could make 2 laws and remove 1 the didn’t like, don’t thing any of Sirions would have survived but there would have been laws (so he would have been comtempt)

As you can see there were ways to go about his requests but the NO attitude just made him hostile. 




Rathan said:


> Sunking I'm more than well aware we put sometimes at little more of ourselves into our character than one really should. It makes conflicting situations like this all that much more difficult. However I must say this is indeed bad form and I'm going to call in part on it. Now I was willing to agree to some sort of lawful pact about your Sirion's civilization thing because Lavaria was not willing to make enemies this quickly out the gate (however with her alignment, making enemies is NOT hard for her to do heh). Lawfully aligned people MUST have patience for the fruits of their labor to bare. Sirion should be a deity that stands over us when we make a mistake say "hey.. I told you so... if you had gone with my laws.. this NEVER would have happened... tsk tsk tsk..." laws don't happen over night.. I mean hell look at congress (rolls his eyes). Stuff there takes YEARS... I haven't asked for anything special, because I know that when I do want something I need to be careful and sneaky about getting it. take your time I mean we're going to be at this a LONG time both in the mist and on the planet. You're not going to get everything you ask for right out of the gates. Jump back into playing Sirion, have his head held hight and smile at us all and just say. "you just wait.. I'll be here saying 'I told you so' in no time...






Rathan said:


> EDIT: I ASSURE you ( and more than likely it will be Lavaria) at some point someone will do something REALLY bad on the planet and then people will be jumping on board with your whole "hey no more walking the planet guys..." you just wait and see heh...





Well the problem is Sirion doesn’t believe he have forever, when he absorbed the elder brains of the Illithid he got a flash of their history

[sblock=Illithid lore]

The Illithid had almost taken over all known worlds and the suns had turned dark, when the enemy attacked and almost destroyed them as a race, to survive the Illithid used a ritual to sling the survivors back thru time to be better prepared next time.

[/sblock]

Sirion believes himself to be this enemy of the Illithid and need to prepare for the time of dark suns, he needs to make allies and build an army.

So waiting around just to say I told you so and to try a protect mortals from their own chaotic gods aren’t on his agenda. 




Myth and Legend said:


> Rathan is right that eventually one puts something of his own character in the hero one is playing. Don't tell me that you will take a hero you have nothing in common and would loathe in real life and play him or her for the sake of diversity only. Playing an assassin has it's own anti-hero cool factor, playing a madman, an evil cleric etc. all have something that appeals to the player.






Myth and Legend said:


> Thus I'm sure that you Sunking are sympathetic to Sirion's cause I want to thank Glass Eye for voicing my thoughts in i his post as well:
> 
> I as a player would hate to see Sirion go because we have already generated momentum with the character and we have invested emotion. It's not good emotion mind you, at least on Heliasillyel's part, but emotion is in itself good for a game, as it makes it more complex and three dimensional.





When we create a character we all put in some trait or personality we like, but I have played from Exalted to Vile characters, I have played characters of all alignments except TN.
And yes some of the were real duchbags that I would never like in real life, some were so holy that if I meet someone like that in real life I would run screaming away after 5 min.

Yes there I momentum but the momentum would do me to the villain of this story and that’s not what I want to play.

If HM wants him as a NPC, go for it
If I should edit away the curse and not make him leave just say so HM, I can see it giving roleplay eighter way maybe something like… 
Even do he have gone maybe he will just gather a warparty of other godlings and attack to save the world from what he means is irresponsible gods. 

This is not saying that I don’t like Sirion I just don’t think that he’s the one for me to play in this group

So conclusion I’m not gowning back to Sirion. I’m making a new god… (just have to come op with a concept)


----------



## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2010)

Theroc said:


> HM. I just noticed that your list on monstrous size gives the same penalty and half the benefits that the Monster Manual states.
> 
> Was this contradiction an error on your part or an intentional deviation?




I didn't make the traits list if thats what you are asking so could you quote the part you are refering to and the realtive MM page plz. 

And on breath weapon the die used( d4, d6, d8 etc.) would be based on the amount of points you put into it. You are spending points for an ability and spend more points to "beef" it up.



Myth and Legend said:


> While we are on the subject, was the bonus Charisma to saves from Deities and Demigods changed from a Divine type bonus to a Luck type bonus on purpouse?




I think I changed it on purpose was thinking the CHA would be luck and and then you would get a Divine Bonus equal to your DR where did I read that, wasn't someone saying saves were really low for being gods?

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

That was me before i saw we get Cha to saves LOL  I think it should stay as a Divine bonus, because it will make the Power of Luck SDA sort of redundant (luck bonuses do not stack, unlike Divine bonuses)

OK I don't want to beat the dead horse but I have to argue some more 



> Well looking at it from a characters perspective the power to create a sun which generate warmth and light to power life thru photosynthesis while not burning the world to a crisp and putting it in orbit so there will be days and night, winter and summer compared to changing a the nature of a small potion of iron into having the property [Ignores damage resistance of creatures with divine rank] seems yes on a different scale but the more power consuming of those two seems to me the sun.
> 
> Yes from the players perspective it would be the other way around but in the rp section I would always look at it from the character perspective.



The power required comes from the Forger - a Greater Deity. It is far beyond the power of regular Gods. Greater Deities are to Gods as Gods are to mortals. As such, this doesn't make sense from a RP perspective, at least it wouldn't make sense to any God or Goddes that i'd run.

On the other hand, while the creatures and plants on the new earth will _need_ the sun and thus not only will it NOT do harm but actually help everyone equally, this godsbane iron serves a purpouse to HARM every one of the gods.

So in essence Heliasillyel was asking to fill the car with gas, while sirion was asking for a self destruct button behind the children's seat.


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2010)

I haven't found where it says divine bonuses stack (and I have been looking trust me) might be because I hate reading on a computer LOL 

Can you give me a page number when you find the time ML, thanks in advance.

A note on the sun: I was thinking that Heliasillyel would ask for a golden orb like the one in her home realm and she would not be in control of this one in anyway. She would be worshipped as the Sun Goddess because she had the forethought to have one provided and thus those who worship it/her would be most thankful. No need for an equalizer.

HM


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## Sunking (Feb 27, 2010)

yes the forger is all powerfull and can create anything its just that the creation of a lifegiving sun in orbit is so much more than a little bounch of iron (so when all the others got 100 bucks in allowens Sirion was hoping for 10 buck and no quistions asked)

and as stated it could have been just [Ignores damage resistance of creatures with divine rank] which would still require the mortal to be able to beat the god (the reason for this was that Sirion then hoped that the gods would think twice before going for a stroll in the world)

the plants only requirs the sun if we wants that, so what you asked for was a ecologic system more advanced then the normal world (ad magic and make it work on a plate instead of a planet) were Sirion asked for the property of under a ton of iron to gain a magic property.

Yes from charekter perspektive (with Int + knowlede:alot very high) I'v would still mean my was the minor request.

and as i said from player perspektiv this would be the other way around


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2010)

I have been following along and find that the rping has been great but the problem seems to be alignment, (though that isn't the hole problem)

there's no way to get eight (now seven) people together and they be almost all chaotic and get anything done quickly. Granted you are all gods but I think a medator or something would be nice. here is the alignment breakdown:

Lavaria CE
The One and the Many CN
Sirion LN 
Heliasillyel CG
Ubariya LN
Torath CG
Duretep CN

You all will probably agree on more freedom/random aspects, and let me do what I want to do type suggestions.

But a world is chaos inclosed in order and without some rules I see this falling apart on us.

So suggestions please, 

Mine would be, a NPC OverGod that gives each godling one thing automaticly to the world, and one to the worshippers he wishes to live on it. And we could go from there.

HM


----------



## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

HM: Well i saw that Intomitable Strength stacks with regular Divine bonuses which got me under the impression that Divine bonuses granted by SDAs stack with the regular Divine Bonuses.

About the sun, Heliasillyel did not ask for her own plane or anything, but i had an idea about the sun and how she would help create it. Frozen Messiah first suggested that when she is not roaming the earth, she is actually inside the sun in her elven form.

So i thought that the sun should be a very limited conjoined demiplane that links the prime material with the plane of fire and the positive energy plane like a three way tap. Of course it is impossible to use it to go to either of the two power source planes, as the current of energy gushing forward is too strong (this is to not ruin Rathan's idea of a stranded Lavaria)

So if you don't mind, let Heliasilyel handle the creation of the new sun. The forger will provide the rough power needed and she will mold and shape it to create the sun.

HM can you please answer my question on the previous page about the weapons? I also submitted a weapon for approval.



> a NPC OverGod that gives each godling one thing automaticly to the world, and one to the worshippers he wishes to live on it. And we could go from there.



I don't get it 

Sunking: OK i understand about the energy expenditure, do you understand that this iron Sirion tried to force is perceived as a bad thing by the other Gods? It doesn't matter if it bypasses DR or slays Gods it's just bad for them and they don't want it, yet he is trying to force it and gets angry if he doesn't get his way.


----------



## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2010)

> Now HM submitting my rather mundane weapon for approval.




Maybe mundane to a god but to the mortals who will see you use it or feel it's wrath i think it is rather potent.



> She will be firing regular arrows right now, as 128k is not enough to make enchanted ammunition and an enchanted bow. This got me thinking though, even though the highest of the two enchantment bonuses is applied (weapon or ammo), one can still have for example a Holy Shoking Burst bow with Flaming Seeking arrows and the effects will stack? In essence, a ranged weapon (if money were no object, since spending 90,000 GP on 30 arrows is a lot!) can have 20 enchantment levels instead of the 10 for a non-epic weapon?




I'm really lost here, I think if you take the ammo option and keep the bow fluff you would never "run-out" of arrows. You will diffently never shoot every round of a fight. Combats shouldn't last more than 10 rounds and combat encounters will be on the low side for something like this, Can't have epic battles everyday unless your Hercules.

And the lost part is about enchantment levels never heard of it.




> Also, the Disruption ability can only be placed on bludgeoning weapons, but i wanted to add some anti-negative energy or undead ability, similar to a Sun blade. How do i get those, and what would they cost?




Will look this up when I get home at the coffee shop.



> Also, do i have to buy the mundane arrows for Heliasillyel?  They are 20 arrows for 1 GP, but to buy them will mean i have to give up on a whole enchantment level. I CAN take a Craft skill to have her make her own unenchanted arrows if it is necessary.




No if you need some gold I'll loan you 1gp LOL 


> [sblock=The Suncaster]*+4 Holy Flaming Burst Composite Longbow [2 STR]*
> 
> *Damage (M):* 1d8 (Piercing) x 3 + 1d6 (Fire) / 2d10 on critical + 4 (Enchantment) + 2 (STR)
> *Range:* 110 ft.
> ...




That looks good to me what is wrong with this weapon for a DR0 god??

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

OK so i can keep the description (made from sunlihgt etc.)? That's great!  The weapon is fine, I just got greedy 

About weapons, ammunition etc.

First we have Rule #1: *The enhancement bonus from a ranged weapon does not stack with the enhancement bonus from ammunition. Only the higher of the two enhancement bonuses applies.* So +5 bow and +5 arrows don't make a +10 attack. Which makes sense.

Then we have Rule #2: *Ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an enhancement bonus of +1 or higher is treated as a magic weapon for the purpose of overcoming damage reduction. Similarly, ammunition fired from a projectile weapon with an alignment gains the alignment of that projectile weapon (in addition to any alignment it may already have).  *So currently the Sunceaster can take any old arrow and make it automatically a +4 Holy Flaming Burst arrow.

However, the arrows themselves CAN be enchanted. When you look at the enchantments table, below it says: *This price is for 50 arrows, crossbow bolts, shuriken, or sling bullets.*

Which means that if you can spare the money, you can have arows with enchantments on top of the bow. For example, you have a +4 Holy Flaming Burst bow, and fire a Shocking Burst, Icy Burst arrow, the end result is a hit with + 4, Holy, Flaming Burst, Shocking Burst, Icy Burst . Which no other weapon can have (max enchantment level is +10)

I don't understand what you mean, keep the fluff for the bow and buy arrows. I'm not spending 128 000 GP for 50 arrows and then be stuck with nothing, it would be much more prudent to spend them on the actual bow that bestows it's enchantments on any arrow


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2010)

Just got in from the coffee shop and was reading Indomitable Strength offline. The way it is writin I think it is an exception to the rule "like bonuses don't stack" it is telling you that this is added in addition to your other divine bonus. So I'm still thinking they don't stack, normally.

You think I would leave you stuck with no arrows??? Come on ML you know I like tough combats but I wouldn't do that.  Don't gods get to create items from nothing?? or is that only certain gods.

Oh and looking at Sunblade, it just has the bane property or do you mean the special ability of the weapon? I think I may have to make an dventure where your weapons are useless (a rampaging Tarrasque comes to mind), and the PC's quest to find a way to "improve" them.

Those of you who want to make your natrual attacks your favored weapon, we should look to at least maybe changing that to dagger or something. Unless it fits the concept to well.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

> Don't gods get to create items from nothing?? or is that only certain gods.



 Yes they do. To an extent.

*Create Magic Items:* A deity of rank 1 or higher can create magic items related to its portfolio without any requisite item creation feat, provided that the deity possesses all other prerequisites for the item. The maximum item value a deity can create is a function of its divine rank (see the table below). The item’s cost and creation time remain unchanged, but the deity is free to undertake any activity when not laboring on the item (see Creating Magic Items in the _DUNGEON MASTER’S Guide_).

*Divine Rank:* 1-5, *Max market price:* 4,500
*Divine Rank:* 6-10, *Max market price:* 30,000
*Divine Rank:* 11-15, *Max market price:* 200,000 (any nonartifact)
*Divine Rank:* 16-20, *Max market price:* no maximum (including artifact)

For example, a demigod of fire could create a wand of burning hands without the Craft Wand feat, provided that the demigod knows the burning hands spell. If a deity has the item creation feat pertaining to the item it wishes to create, the cost (in gold and XP) and creation times are halved.


[sblock=Create Object]The deity can create simple objects out of nothing.*

Prerequisites:* Divine rank 6, Int 29.*

Benefit: *As a full-round action, the deity can create one or more simple, nonmagical objects with a total weight of up to 50 pounds per divine rank, or with a total volume of 10 cubic feet per rank. If the deity uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, double the volume and weight the deity can create. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, triple the volume and weight the deity can create there.*

Notes: *For purposes of this ability, a simple object can have no moving parts more complex than a door hinge and must be composed of a single material. The material can be no more valuable than iron (1 sp per pound). The deity could create a length of rope, a leather sack, a wooden spoon, or an iron pot. The deity could create a knife blade, but not a knife with a wooden handle.
Once created, the objects are permanent and nonmagical. If the deity has the appropriate Craft skill, the deity can make a Craft check when creating the item to make it a masterwork item.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, creation.[/sblock]
[sblock=Create Greater Object]
The deity can create complex objects out of nothing.*

Prerequisites:* Divine rank 11, Int 29, Create Object salient divine ability.
*
Benefit: *As a full-round action, the deity can create objects weighing up to 100 pounds per divine rank, or with a volume of 20 cubic feet per rank. If the deity uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, double the volume and weight the deity can create. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, triple the volume and weight the deity can create there.
*
Notes:* This ability works like the Create Object ability, except as noted below. A deity can use this ability to create any kind of nonmagical object.
*
Rest:* The deity must convert a considerable amount of its own energy into the object, which can leave the deity impaired. The deity can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the deity must rest for 10 minutes. If the deity is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, it can create a 200 gp item without resting. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, it can create a 300 gp item there without having to rest.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, creation.[/sblock]

[sblock=Divine Creation]The deity can create creatures or magic items out of nothing.*

Prerequisites:* Divine rank 16, Int 29, Create Object salient divine ability, Create Greater Object salient divine ability.
*
Benefit: *As a full-round action, the deity can create mortal creatures or magic items whose total weight is up to 100 pounds per divine rank, or with a total volume of 20 cubic feet per rank. If the deity uses this ability on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, double the volume and weight the deity can create. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, triple the volume and weight the deity can create there.
*
Notes:* This ability works like the Create Greater Object ability, except as noted below. A deity can use this ability to create any kind of creature that does not have a divine rank. The deity can create a creature with class levels, but never with more class levels than the deity has itself or the deity’s divine rank, whichever is lower.
*
Rest:* The deity must convert a considerable amount of its own energy into the object, which can leave the deity impaired. The deity can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the deity must rest for 10 minutes. If the deity is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, it can create a 200 gp item without resting. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, it can create a 300 gp item there without having to rest.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, creation, supreme.[/sblock]

[sblock=Craft Artifact]The deity can make magic items that exceed mortal limits.*

Prerequisites:* Craft Magic Arms and Armor, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Forge Ring, Scribe Scroll.
*
Benefit:* The deity can craft magic arms and armor, staffs, wands, wondrous items, rings, and scrolls that exceed the normal limits for such items (as stated in the DUNGEONMASTER’s Guide). For instance, the deity could create a magic sword with an enhancement bonus higher than +5, a staff that allows the use of spells of higher than 9th level, a cloak of Charisma with an enhancement bonus higher than +6, and so on. More information on such items can be found in the Epic Level Handbook.
*
Notes:* This ability works like the Create Object ability, except as noted below. A deity can use this ability to create any kind of nonmagical object.
*
Rest:* The deity must convert a considerable amount of its own energy into the object, which can leave the deity impaired. The deity can create an object with a value of up to 100 gp without impairment. For every additional 100 gp of value (or fraction of 100 gp), the deity must rest for 10 minutes. If the deity is creating an item on a divinely morphic plane or within its own godly realm, it can create a 200 gp item without resting. If the deity’s realm is located on a divinely morphic plane, it can create a 300 gp item there without having to rest.

*Suggested Portfolio Elements:* Crafts, knowledge, magic. [/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Feb 27, 2010)

Question? How do you type so fast?? 

So the arrows you could create would be effectd by your DR the stronger you get the stronger the arrows you create will become.

Also if you take and put all money in the bow when you do become higher in DR you could make/improve on your favored weapon?

HM


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## Theroc (Feb 27, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I didn't make the traits list if thats what you are asking so could you quote the part you are refering to and the realtive MM page plz.




Here:







			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> Ability Score Increases - Each time this special trait is taken the character may add +2 to any ability score. Note that the Monstrous Size trait can affect ability scores as well. *Each size category larger than Medium gives the character a cumulative +4 to Str, -2 to Dex, and +2 to Con.* Each size category smaller than Medium gives the character a cumulative -2 to Str and +2 to Dex. So, a Huge character has a +8 to Str, -4 to Dex, and +4 to Con. A Tiny character has a -4 to Str and a +4 to Dex.




Link to SRD http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases



			
				Holyman said:
			
		

> And on breath weapon the die used( d4, d6, d8 etc.) would be based on the amount of points you put into it. You are spending points for an ability and spend more points to "beef" it up.




So, how many points does each size and number of dice cost?  Also, what is the cost of the cooldown timer?  I don't even know what size of breath weapon would be worthwhile.  Starting to sound like a traitpoint sink I can't afford.  No offense intended, just not sure I can afford to make the breath weapon worthwhile, depending how it costs.


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## Sunking (Feb 27, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I have been following along and find that the rping has been great but the problem seems to be alignment, (though that isn't the hole problem)
> 
> there's no way to get eight (now seven) people together and they be almost all chaotic and get anything done quickly. Granted you are all gods but I think a medator or something would be nice. here is the alignment breakdown:
> 
> ...




you forgot the time god LN I think

well the problem with the last suggestion, is that it would change all and we would probertly have to reebot...

while if we continues we would keep all the cool things as Death/madness = undeath, Sun burns eye of the death spideress = the moon and such
personaly i think it can work, the two LN left seems better able to work with and around the chaotic ones and a strongly dominated chaotic world can exsists.

so the options i see is 

1) reeboot with the Overgod

2) continue and see were it takes us (im voting here)

---

here let me give it a try

breath weapon
cooldown 1d4+1 

Cone of fire  (1 point)
30 ft
5d4 
ref save for half DC 15+con mod.

Cone of fire  (2 point)
60 ft
10d6 
ref save for half DC 15+con mod.

Cone of fire  (5 point)
120 ft
20d8
ref save for half DC 15+con mod.


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## GlassEye (Feb 27, 2010)

[sblock=RANT]Don't take any of what I'm about to say personally but several things bug me:



HolyMan said:


> A note on the sun: I was thinking that Heliasillyel would ask for a golden orb like the one in her home realm and she would not be in control of this one in anyway. She would be worshipped as the Sun Goddess because she had the forethought to have one provided and thus those who worship it/her would be most thankful. No need for an equalizer.




This lessens the mythological impact of our story.  Heliasillyel _is_ the sun.  And she should be powerful enough to be the sun and dance on the surface of the world in physical form with her elven followers if she wants to.  Your method is perfectly valid but neuters us as gods; the sun god should have control over the sun.  Ubariya should have control over darkness.  Duretep should have control over dreams and madness.  If we, as gods, don't have control over our portfolios then I'm afraid I don't see the point of this game at all.  



HolyMan said:


> I have been following along and find that the rping has been great but the problem seems to be alignment, (though that isn't the hole problem)
> 
> there's no way to get eight (now seven) people together and they be almost all chaotic and get anything done quickly. Granted you are all gods but I think a medator or something would be nice. here is the alignment breakdown:
> 
> ...




I disagree that alignment is the problem.  It is certainly adds an element of complexity, especially for those of us who have chosen to play lawful deities.  But I can work with an entire pantheon of chaotic deities because I know that they are ruled by self-interest.  Lavaria doesn't go on a rampage of destruction because she knows that this is likely to piss off the other deities who might band together to retaliate or bind her in some fashion.  The same goes for every deity.  I think of this as a 'natural law' and it's the basis of Ubariya's lawful alignment.  Anything crazy enough to act outside their self-interest shouldn't be a player character.  Even Duretep has a splinter of saner personality that comes to the forefront whenever he might do something too far off the deep end.

And who cares if we don't get anything done quickly?  If I wanted quick I sure wouldn't be playing in pbp.  I don't want to spend five days arguing over one issue, though, so a mediator would smooth things a little bit.  However, HM, you surrendered that option when you had the Forger run off after your first post.  You can bring him back and have him act as mediator now if you want, I guess.

Frankly the Forger irritates me.  Perhaps the problem is the assumptions I took from our discussions of the game before it began.  What I wanted (and still want) is to be a creator deity.  I don't want to sit back and let some other deity create everything and then get only one thing I want.  The whole point of this to me was to get to create things, establish a religion, and deal with the other gods and their creations.  And for the record, I hate the idea of power level being tied to number of worshipers.  You think Zeus had any worshipers before the world was created when he fought against the titans?  He certainly wasn't powerless then.

This is your most important statement:


			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> But a world is chaos inclosed in order and without some rules I see this falling apart on us.




We've done pretty well on our own (until this latest issue).  You are right, though, we _do_ need rules.  We've needed them from the very beginning.  IMO, the biggest problem is the lack of rules from the very beginning.  And I don't mean rules governing the mechanics of our deities.  I'm not picking on anyone but let me point out a couple of things as examples:  Heliasillyel, a deity for 8,000 or so years, complete with ancient history and references to other crystal spheres, Toril, spelljamming ships, Lolth, and some kludge to explain why she doesn't have her full power now.  Torath and Sirion, newly ascended from other worlds.  Lavaria cast out from her plane and looking for a new home.  There are a lot of assumptions made that by default I'm now forced to live with.  It's hard to reconcile my idea that our deities are the only ones with the idea of a multitude of deities in a multitude of crystal spheres scattered across the multiverse.  The point is that we needed a common origin, a baseline to work from that keeps our deities on an equal field and that gives us a common point for roleplaying.  I suppose that since HM didn't object to any of the histories as presented that that is reality that I have to accept.   I just wanted Ubariya to be something more than some petty death goddess looking for scraps from some more powerful creator deity.

So how do we fix it?

First things first: get Sunking to edit his curse post, give Sirion to HolyMan to npc and lets get on with the roleplaying.  I would like a statement that clarifies what our history as deities is and what our roles are and what kind of game we're playing.  I think that will solve most of our problems.

Thanks for listening to my long-winded rant.
--GE[/sblock]


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

[sblock=OK sblocks it is]I agree with Glass Eye for the most part, but i want to argue against the bashing of my Goddess's background. Just as you want the freedom to be a creator Deity and not be confined with the Forger, number of worshipers etc. I want my deity to be omnipotent. The main point of Godhood is to transcend mortal knowledge and experience, as far as i am concerned. Since i am not a God, I haven't' seen one or talked to one, how am i supposed to roleplay one? With my mortal, human and modern day brain i came up with the assumption that it's more "godly" to be 8000 years old and with knowledge on how the universe works, not a drooling infant that can't see past her newly acquired power.

Not to mention that Sun Elves have an average lifespan of 700 years. With such longived creatures as her  worshipers, she is bound to be old herself, even if she's been around for "only" 10 Elven generations.

We have not made our deities perfect, they are only perfect in form, but flawed in charcter - exactly like the ancient Greek and Nordic pantheons. Thus Heliasillyel has flawed human emotions - rage, stubbornness, selfishness etc. The only way i can really portray some means of Divinity is to have her be above the boundaries of human intelligence, knowledge and clairvoyance.

As such i had her be a true deity in that regard, and gave a "kludge" of an explanation (as you so put it) to actually having her be a DR0 Deity. If you or anyone else does not like that explanation, give me a suggestion and i can work with that if i like it. It is true though, that HM did not give us rules on where we come from and how we came to be. I, however, do not want to play a newborn God that doesn't know what the hell is going on. The whole term "godling" that HM uses on a constant basis is annoying, it suggests we are the equivalent of divine children taking their first steps in the sandbox. That, coupled with the Forger actually being the only one who can create things, makes our Gods seem little more than mortals with a high DR and an immunity or two.

Even mortals can create planes though, they only need to be able to cast Genesis.

So HM has said already that it's hard for him to find a reasonable challenge for DR16 and up Deities, hence he had us start at DR0. But DR0 Quasi-Deities are so low on the food chain it doesn't make sense for them to be able to create a world, so he gave us the Forger. So in essence we need the Forger to justify being divine-level gnats and still be able to have a world as if we had created it.

Also, Glas Eye, I am unsure what you don't like about references to other worlds. You want us to be the only Gods in the world? Than this would mean that we have sprouted from somewhere and are creating things from scratch, but that would mean we all need the same background, and it would not justify a Sun Elf Goddess for example, as there are NO Sun Elves anywhere. It would not justify anything short of primordial gods of storms, fires, lightnings and death. Zeus and his brothers are much more unrefined than the later Deities like Aphrodite for example, who were spawned after the Titanomachy.

So forcing a "year 0" background to everyone and removing prior experience and knowledge, will also limit the types of Gods we can realistically have in this campaign.

I think the biggest issue with this campaign is that we are not perceiving it equally. Some players (and both DMs as far as i can tell) want this game to be just like a regular level 1 DnD game, but only with rescaled characters. We will still be fighting monsters and gaining levels. The main challenge will be the DM throwing monsters and maybe NPCs at us.

I, from the very beginning, though that we will be "true" Gods and the challenge will come from other Gods played by real players, not liking our ideologies, followers, etc. So yeah, I thought this would a much more "free roam" type game that will have us interact with each other.

Mind you I'm not opposed to starting with the first and getting to the second, that's the best way even, if we can only agree on things _as players_. I don't want to repeat everything Glass Eye said, but yes the problem is not our Deitie's alignments or the lack of in-game laws and rules.[/sblock]


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## Theroc (Feb 27, 2010)

Glasseye, you had a problem with Torath's skeletal history?  

I figured the simpler and less stuff I piled on for the history, the better for the game.  Concept was simply: Torath grew to power on a chaotic-wartorn plane from which he was banished as he ascended to a Quasi-diety.

I did not realize such a thing would be problematic.

edit@M&L:

I don't think I had a real expectation outside of being a 'god' powerwise and dealing with other 'gods' and doing godly things.  At this point however, I was liking the idea that our gods were similar to the Greek gods.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 27, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I have been following along and find that the rping has been great but the problem seems to be alignment, (though that isn't the hole problem)
> 
> there's no way to get eight (now seven) people together and they be almost all chaotic and get anything done quickly. Granted you are all gods but I think a medator or something would be nice. here is the alignment breakdown:
> 
> ...




I have some ideas...

1)Reasearch & Meeting: The gods are left to their own machinations for a set period of time. After that time elapses they will all come togeter and tell all the gods the pros and cons of their system. We will then take all of the ideas and bring them together to make a functioning whole

2)God Era: We create the races and we leave them be and observe. They will most likely do somethings that the gods will find appaling and do somethings that the gods will like. Out of each race there prove to be champion (this could be an incorruptable paladin to a sneaky and sly rogue). This champion will usher a new era, The God Era. This new era will have the gods on the earth but far enough removed from regular society that they can still help heir people but for people to come to them it becomes difficult.

3)Spin the Bottle: We go in a circle and ecah god choses one rule until every god has 5 to their name. The rules cannot specifically hamper another god and if one rule were to make another rule pointless than the god with the pointless rule gets another rule. Everything is on the table for ruling and once a rule has been said by a god it is set in stone, so think long and think hard.

@HolyMan: Could I switch out Destiny for another domain, it seemed like a good idea at the time?


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## Rathan (Feb 27, 2010)

ML do you remember what I said about putting too much of yourself into your character? Well every time someone mentions they don't like something about your character is not your cue to go ranting about it. He was using it as a base example and he was right. A few of us took the liberty of drawing our characters up to be the be all end of of Gods or Goddesses, YOU are included in those few. Why this is a problem is because it gives you more a reason to play your Goddess as 'I'm better than you because I'm older, now go away'. Not saying you'd play her this way (however you've already leaded towards it, such as knowing our names and what we are the gods of.. you're meta-gaming based on your background!). For one this is wrong, bad form, and completely hinged on character BACKGROUND and not what the character has EARNED in the game. I could be a creator deity with 1000's of worlds created under my belt before I got to the grey mist. HOWEVER, once I'm there, I'm NO better than you. That's the START of the game and everyone should be on equal keel. Yet I see you constantly asking for new rules and new ways to make yourself better than everyone else, weather you mean to or not. Weather it be your weapon, stats, or just trying to weasel your characters past into the present to show your character is far superior are ALL signs of why Glass is 110% correct. We need baseline rules. Things like.. "sure you're background is pretty... you may be only an aspect of your true form sent here... however your character knows nothing of this... the slate is clean... anything from the past cannot be used... period. Same with my background. I would surely have access to the elemental plane of fire even though I can't go there however my power from my background is null and void because this is a FRESH start. I should have what I paid for and start from THERE.

I'm NOT afraid to say you are the majority of my problem with this game ML and you frustrate me to no end with little addons to the rules just so it fits YOURS character. Weather you realize it or not that gives your character an edge, allbeit a small one but it still upsets players because they DON'T have the special weapon (which I'm glad HM stuck to his guns on.. thank you HM) or whatever have you. 

Sunking is the other part of my problem in the way he completely slapped us all in the face and basically said "screw you guys.... I can't play this character so let me just give you a big middle finger". It's not OUR fault you can't play a Lawful character in a room full of chaos. That what this comes down to and to be honest anything else you bring to to table as a concept I'm going to have a hard time respecting after what you pulled. 

Just thought I'd be honest with you all and voice my VERY frustrated opinions here with you all. It's not to piss people off, but more to show you how close I am to saying "you know what?... It's not worth it... I'm done" and I have a sneaking suspicion I'm not the only one


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

OK if you feel that way and so do the rest of you i am leaving. However the weapon was a suggestion i wanted for everyone to use, not just myself, what is wrong with that? I even dumbed it down since you didn't get the first write up. Are the weapons more powerful than a 128 gp item? Yes. Would they make our characters unbalanced? NO! Because everyone would have one.

Earning the right to know what the other Gods are gods OF? What kind of nonsense is that? It's asking for a knowledge check to recognize the big guy with the axe and leather armour who can't read as a Barbarian in a regular game. I am not metagaming and if you are too near sighted to realize that i can't argue with you. I never once assumed what the other Gods think or are like in character, I just used the divine omnipotence, that mind you OTHER PLAYERS took for granted as well, and had Heliasillyel know what each of these is as a Divine Being.

 In any case, your aggression is uncalled for and i don't think i can have fun in this game.


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## GlassEye (Feb 27, 2010)

My wording was unfortunate and for that I apologize.  (Using the term 'kludge' was particularly bad form because it implies a poor fix for a problem).  I used Torath's background more as a comparison for the more highly detailed background provided by Myth.  I don't have a problem with background except in that each background brings assumptions to the game that I have to accept into my assumptions.  I don't expect my particular set of assumptions to be the default but I was looking for official word of what the starting background is.  Not commenting on backgrounds presented is technically as good as giving them the thumbs up.  I don't think I wanted to accept that.  So really, the problem is with me.  I understand this but I still feel some frustration which is why I put my comment in sblocks and labelled it RANT.

Again, I didn't mean anything I said to be an attack on any person involved in this game and I apologize if my words have hurt feelings or caused offense.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 27, 2010)

Rathan said:


> ML do you remember what I said about putting too much of yourself into your character? Well every time someone mentions they don't like something about your character is not your cue to go ranting about it. He was using it as a base example and he was right. A few of us took the liberty of drawing our characters up to be the be all end of of Gods or Goddesses, YOU are included in those few. Why this is a problem is because it gives you more a reason to play your Goddess as 'I'm better than you because I'm older, now go away'. Not saying you'd play her this way (however you've already leaded towards it, such as knowing our names and what we are the gods of.. you're meta-gaming based on your background!). For one this is wrong, bad form, and completely hinged on character BACKGROUND and not what the character has EARNED in the game. I could be a creator deity with 1000's of worlds created under my belt before I got to the grey mist. HOWEVER, once I'm there, I'm NO better than you. That's the START of the game and everyone should be on equal keel. Yet I see you constantly asking for new rules and new ways to make yourself better than everyone else, weather you mean to or not. Weather it be your weapon, stats, or just trying to weasel your characters past into the present to show your character is far superior are ALL signs of why Glass is 110% correct. We need baseline rules. Things like.. "sure you're background is pretty... you may be only an aspect of your true form sent here... however your character knows nothing of this... the slate is clean... anything from the past cannot be used... period. Same with my background. I would surely have access to the elemental plane of fire even though I can't go there however my power from my background is null and void because this is a FRESH start. I should have what I paid for and start from THERE.
> 
> I'm NOT afraid to say you are the majority of my problem with this game ML and you frustrate me to no end with little addons to the rules just so it fits YOURS character. Weather you realize it or not that gives your character an edge, allbeit a small one but it still upsets players because they DON'T have the special weapon (which I'm glad HM stuck to his guns on.. thank you HM) or whatever have you.
> 
> ...





I also understand where you are coming from, The very nature of this game leads to this sort of turmoil because "with great power comes great responsibilty"(sorry had to say it) that in it's very nature will make it hard for anything to come of this. We all have gods that want something some of us are doing it in a subtle fashion where as others are not.

I think that ML is not reall causing as much trouble as you are stating, but I'm alos not saying she isn't. I don't think having endless arrows is a real boon I actually think that it's is actually less powerful than having arrows because you can't have massive amount of staking bonuses every shot but i also think some of the stuff she is sayoing about her bow could be just as easily added on through fluff. Heliasillyel knowing everyone is no differnet than Duretep because I never actually gave a defined time for how long he has been around but I veiw him to be bloody ancient, so he knows about everyone of you it's just the fact that he is insane makes it seem like he doesn't. Having her god know other gods I don't think is a problem.

Now then can we all play nice for this time, i know ML can get underneath your skin quickly & easily and so do her characters but let's try and stop pointing fingers because that is what is making want to close up shop. So I will say this again let's all play nice or at least fake it really well.


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

Hey me getting under anyone's skin is up to that person's own mental stability. I try not to be offensive, and that's that. I do enjoy debating I admit, I just want it to be intelligent and constructive criticism. Aggression and hate turn me away pretty quickly, as is the case here.

Me putting in too much of my own character in the ones i play on ENWorld is just an assumption. I now have three female characters, since the games with the three male characters died, and i took up a DMing project that prevented me from joining any more games. I just HAD to join this one though, to reinvent a character from another game that died out.

But me as a person IRL? No one here has sufficient info on that 

Anyway thank you for the support FM. BTW i actually thought of Duretep as a character from another place, who was famous for having forgotten more about magic than current day mages ever knew.


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## Sunking (Feb 27, 2010)

well i understand you the problem with sirion was as i said that I made him to rock fast and to lawful, the curse was not to give you the finger but to show whar sirion meant about your present course it was giving him a big exit instead of just fading, it was me realising having mad a LN stuborn PC in a group of primary Chaotic PC's werent somthing i would wanna play...

Im saying sorry i made a mistake I should have looked at the group dynamik when i made my god, but i would rather remove him now the become bored about playing him and let you down by posting to little.

to ML vhy if you look back i suggested DR 7 in the begening but in the end its up to HM what he wanna run, just like its up to us if we wanna run with what HM puts up.

But this diskusion is turning wery personaly should we descuse what we should do instead of name calling.

1) continue and se were this is going

2) reeboot and start with a overgod calling the shots

3) just throw mud, playing the blame game and wait for people to slowly leave the game.


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 27, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Hey me getting under anyone's skin is up to that person's own mental stability. I try not to be offensive, and that's that.
> 
> Me putting in too much of my own character in the ones i play on ENWorld is just an assumption. I now have three female characters, since the games with the three male characters died, and i took up a DMing project that prevented me from joining any more games. I just HAD to join this one though, to reinvent a character from another game that died out.
> 
> But me as a person IRL? No one here has sufficient info on that




I understand I think more than you think ML, I believe that you are a competivitve person who always likes to get the last word in and judging by what you choose to argue about you also need giudlines to function  but your characters usually are chaotic in nature meaning that you are most likely a pro democracy person. This just an educated geuss, not trying to freak you out or seem like know it all 

As for Lora, almost any character that I would have played would have not liked her and actually it's a good thing I chose to play an aged paladin because most of my characters are...dicks. I would have probably said or done something to put a perma-hate on him.

I understand also that it takes a certain frame of mind to not like someone but if there is just a bit more patience and understanding on bothsides of this than I do believe everything will turn out ok.

I'm a neutral party here so I'm taking on ones sides in this, we already have lost one player I don't want to have half of the gods become NPC before we get to set foot on the planet.
In know it's up to the person


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## Myth and Legend (Feb 27, 2010)

[sblock=this is off-topic for FM]As it says in the sblock this is completely off-topic so don't come at me saying "use PM" or something. Nobody is making you read this.







> I understand I think more than you think ML, I believe that you are a competivitve person who always likes to get the last word in and judging by what you choose to argue about you also need giudlines to function but your characters usually are chaotic in nature meaning that you are most likely a pro democracy person. This just an educated geuss, not trying to freak you out or seem like know it all




Well dear me! Sorry but you can't freak me out  I am not a competitive person by any means. I am a Libra, I enjoy debate but hesitate to make a decision. I am a good mediator and arbiter, so long as i am not involved in the situation. Making fast rash decisions is against my nature. In real life, i am the polar opposite of Lora. 

You are right, most of my characters are chaotic and i already explained why in the Off to War OOC. I did have a neutral and a lawful one, both male, but the games died. That's a coincidence, nothing more.

Lora was always intended to be a damaged person, and now she is a bitch to protect herself from further harm. SHE likes taking charge and having the last word.

IRL I am not like her at all. You do assume too much, you assume about my gender, my personality, about everything. Although a psychologist could possibly make a profile for me out of the characters i play, it would not be very accurate. I have not attempted to evade analysis, but i have not given anything but the subtlest of clues that regular readers will probably pass by.

Anyway I am giving up on this game in particular, but we will still be playing in Off to War. Just remember that I am always roleplaying and don't take personal offence  This goes for anyone else who is reading this as well. For me, ENWorld serves mainly as a means of relaxing and having fun, but it is also an experiment.[/sblock]


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> [sblock=RANT]Don't take any of what I'm about to say personally but several things bug me:
> 
> 
> 
> ...




A) I didn't want anyone in control of such a powerful force, even if it is in their portfolio. Living on/in it is great and makes for great story, having any kind of say in it's actions is quite another.

 Example: ML says to HM "My character put it there so she should be able to take it away."

B) Complexity- That's a good word for it.

C) The Forger is just creating the world, nothing in it. He will be making the shell as it were, anything to do with religion, locations, and all are on the PCs. Also when you reach a high enough DR you can change things.

D)Everyone was to get one thing they wanted without consenses to 1) help speed things along, and 2) get others to then make counter requests to help keep the ball rolling.

E) What I wanted was to play a game were the PCs were the gods of the realm they would go forth and create mythos and have adventures for their worshippers to tell. I have no plans on anyone fighting Zeus or Zeus like gods. But it seems everyone wants to play DR11 or higher gods and go out and smite everything that gets on their nerves. LOL 

note: I think Zeus was a God(outsider20HD) Fighter 1, DR0 when he fought the titans. At least I hope he was because that's what I have planned for you. 

F) I'm really don't want to scrap this but we need to all get on the same page.

So please more suggestions.

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> @HolyMan: Could I switch out Destiny for another domain, it seemed like a good idea at the time?




Thanks for all the brainstorming some of thos ecould be used in conjunction with other iedals I have or may give someone else an ideal.

And go ahead characters have not yet been fully approved  sigh,, except for maybe Rathan's

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2010)

Theroc said:


> Here:
> 
> 
> So, how many points does each size and number of dice cost? Also, what is the cost of the cooldown timer? I don't even know what size of breath weapon would be worthwhile. Starting to sound like a traitpoint sink I can't afford. No offense intended, just not sure I can afford to make the breath weapon worthwhile, depending how it costs.




Hmm didn't re-quote me LOL Umm... it is like it says you could:

A) spend one trait point and get +2 to any stat or...
B) spend one trait point and go up one size, and get +4 STR, -2DEX, +2CON (shouldn't you get the grapple bonus and AC penalities too?)

And the breath weapon is just what we can agree on Sunking has a good start just try negotiating LOL

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2010)

Rathan said:


> ML do you remember what I said about putting too much of yourself into your character? Well every time someone mentions they don't like something about your character is not your cue to go ranting about it. He was using it as a base example and he was right. A few of us took the liberty of drawing our characters up to be the be all end of of Gods or Goddesses, YOU are included in those few. Why this is a problem is because it gives you more a reason to play your Goddess as 'I'm better than you because I'm older, now go away'. Not saying you'd play her this way (however you've already leaded towards it, such as knowing our names and what we are the gods of.. you're meta-gaming based on your background!). For one this is wrong, bad form, and completely hinged on character BACKGROUND and not what the character has EARNED in the game. I could be a creator deity with 1000's of worlds created under my belt before I got to the grey mist. HOWEVER, once I'm there, I'm NO better than you. That's the START of the game and everyone should be on equal keel. Yet I see you constantly asking for new rules and new ways to make yourself better than everyone else, weather you mean to or not. Weather it be your weapon, stats, or just trying to weasel your characters past into the present to show your character is far superior are ALL signs of why Glass is 110% correct. We need baseline rules. Things like.. "sure you're background is pretty... you may be only an aspect of your true form sent here... however your character knows nothing of this... the slate is clean... anything from the past cannot be used... period. Same with my background. I would surely have access to the elemental plane of fire even though I can't go there however my power from my background is null and void because this is a FRESH start. I should have what I paid for and start from THERE.
> 
> I'm NOT afraid to say you are the majority of my problem with this game ML and you frustrate me to no end with little addons to the rules just so it fits YOURS character. Weather you realize it or not that gives your character an edge, allbeit a small one but it still upsets players because they DON'T have the special weapon (which I'm glad HM stuck to his guns on.. thank you HM) or whatever have you.
> 
> ...





In my defense I was rushed into starting without thinking through any rules other than, you can't kill each other here.

And your welcome I will always try and keeo things balanced when it comes to the numbers/crunch. 

Sorry to hear though that you are upset by the direction any suggestions?

HM


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2010)

Sunking said:


> ML vhy if you look back i suggested DR 7 in the begening but in the end its up to HM what he wanna run, just like its up to us if we wanna run with what HM puts up.
> 
> But this diskusion is turning wery personaly should we descuse what we should do instead of name calling.
> 
> ...




Sorry things have gotten to Chaotic, not my intent. But I thought we were forming a game when we (as a group) decided to go with VV posted charactyer gene rules. I know I could have upgraded the DR but with everything you get at DR1 it looked to me that earning it would be more memorablie. A sort of "a-ha now I have these immunites or now I can use my domain powers I am mightier than before." That's why I stuck at DR0 and didn't budge. 

And what your characters know is totally up to all of you there was some good roleplaying going on. I don't see where things went down hill. Maybe you as players didn't like Sirion's Curse, but look at it from a DM's point of view. An NPC antagonist to give you grief as you make your way in a new world, maybe behind the scenes maybe not, The Cult of Sirion, I mean the ideals just were flowing he did me a favor. 

Whatever "beef" is going on really needs to be put out to dry, if ML's character is playing Heliasillyel as a miss know-it-all that is fine becaus she does have a mighty big Know(religion) modifier. 

But what you allow her to know depends on you, your background might say this but later on we find out it wasn't that way at all. Don't tell me everyone hear has done their backgrounds before and kept them carved in stone. Background is 50% truth mixed with 60% rumor.

Ok I need a Roll Call and a what do you wish done.

HM


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## Theroc (Feb 28, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Hmm didn't re-quote me LOL Umm... it is like it says you could:
> 
> A) spend one trait point and get +2 to any stat or...
> B) spend one trait point and go up one size, and get +4 STR, -2DEX, +2CON (shouldn't you get the grapple bonus and AC penalities too?)
> ...




I was asking if you intentionally changed those values.  As normally going from medium to large is +8 strength, -2 dexterity, +4 con, +2 NAC, -1 attack

Are you deviating from the standard here?  I'm still not quite sure.

I'll get to work on deciding how many points I'm willing to spend on a breath weapon.

Edit: 
Here's a link to the table I used from the SRD.  I verified with the monster manual but forget the page number.  http://www.d20srd.org/srd/improvingMonsters.htm#sizeIncreases


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## HolyMan (Feb 28, 2010)

Theroc said:


> I was asking if you intentionally changed those values. As normally going from medium to large is +8 strength, -2 dexterity, +4 con, +2 NAC, -1 attack
> 
> Are you deviating from the standard here? I'm still not quite sure.
> 
> I'll get to work on deciding how many points I'm willing to spend on a breath weapon.




Note my standard really i got these rules from VV and twiked them a bit, but I see why they were brought down a character could spend:

2 points and get +8STR, +0 DEX, +4CON, +2NAC, -1 attack???(what does that mean?)
OR
3 points and get +16STR, -2DEX, +8CON, +4NAC, -2attacks

WOW I like the change better or everyone will be walking around Huge sized LOL

HM


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## Rathan (Feb 28, 2010)

Listen it was not my intent to fly off the handle in fact I never really did... I was perfectly calm when I wrote than response to the rants it was just me venting a bit because it seems no one can come to an even keel on anything here and it's frustrating. I have also been having some r/l family health issues that I've allowed myself to get too wrapped up in and have been trying to play the whole 'I'm the one in the family the needs to keep things held together'.. in light of that my stress levels have been on high. To be honest it's no excuse I should leave it at the door and for the most part I do. I will work on this personally to avoid this again.

I have REALLY enjoyed the character interactions thusfar in the Mist. It's all the rules and the patchwork forms they are taking that is hard to keep up with, coupled with the constant butting of heads both rules and character dynamic wise that's giving me some unease here. I WANT to make this work as I've ALWAYS wanted to make a God or Goddess to play. 

As for being thrust into something you were not prepared for... as of late r/l HM... I KNOW how you feel LOL. You are doing your best whereas I am not, which is rare for me I'm usually the one in the middle keeping the two parties from warring heh.

In short I apologize for my venting earlier it should have been done in private... or not at all in some aspects. I hope those involved will forgive me.

EDIT: On a side note HM... I plan never to leave meduim size unless it's due to a spell effect ....


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## GlassEye (Feb 28, 2010)

Sunking said:


> well i understand you the problem with sirion was as i said that I made him to rock fast and to lawful, the curse was not to give you the finger but to show whar sirion meant about your present course it was giving him a big exit instead of just fading, it was me realising having mad a LN stuborn PC in a group of primary Chaotic PC's werent somthing i would wanna play...
> 
> Im saying sorry i made a mistake I should have looked at the group dynamik when i made my god, but i would rather remove him now the become bored about playing him and let you down by posting to little.




Sunking, I owe you an apology.  I made an assumption about your motive for setting Sirion aside and I should have remembered that it is impossible to know a persons motives in a forum setting.  I'm sorry.

As for making a mistake about the group dynamic that isn't your fault.  Your character was the third one posted; there was no way you could know what the dynamic was going to be.  So don't blame yourself for that.



HolyMan said:


> C) The Forger is just creating the world, nothing in it. He will be making the shell as it were, anything to do with religion, locations, and all are on the PCs. Also when you reach a high enough DR you can change things.
> 
> E) What I wanted was to play a game were the PCs were the gods of the realm they would go forth and create mythos and have adventures for their worshippers to tell. I have no plans on anyone fighting Zeus or Zeus like gods. But it seems everyone wants to play DR11 or higher gods and go out and smite everything that gets on their nerves. LOL
> 
> ...




Thank you for addressing each thing I brought up.  In most cases, your replies clarify things for me.  I'll follow your lettering format for clarity.

C) This is the confusing one for me.  What encompasses 'the world'?  Is it just the physical geography of the earth or does it include plants, animals, and sentient races?  It kind of sounds like it is just the physical geography of the world (that's me being very literal minded; I'm a very literal minded person.  It's just one of my failings.) but I can see that that might not be the case.  _Warning: another assumption upcoming...  I assumed that the special outsider traits from CrazyMonkey by way of VV were just special outsider racial rules that we were using along with the divine rules from the SRD._  So, I assumed that 'the world' includes sentient races since by the divine section of the SRD gods can't create objects until DR 6, gain an increase in mass at DR 11, and can finally create living things at DR 16.

E) I want this, too.  I also thought (hoped?) we would be creating things.  My thought has been covered so I won't continue it again.

note: I never considered Zeus in this light.

F) I don't want to scap it either.  As I posted several pages ago, I have really enjoyed just about everything that has happened involving this game.  But I'm afraid that now I've broken it with no chance of repair. 



HolyMan said:


> In my defense I was rushed into starting without thinking through any rules other than, you can't kill each other here.




We were all excited about this game and we all wanted to get it going IC as soon as we could.  That's some pretty intense pressure to get things moving.  I don't blame you for that at all.



HolyMan said:


> Sorry things have gotten to Chaotic, not my intent. But I thought we were forming a game when we (as a group) decided to go with VV posted charactyer gene rules. I know I could have upgraded the DR but with everything you get at DR1 it looked to me that earning it would be more memorablie. A sort of "a-ha now I have these immunites or now I can use my domain powers I am mightier than before." That's why I stuck at DR0 and didn't budge.




We all know you didn't intend for things to devolve to this point.  And gaining power is a major part of the fun.  Honestly, I was considering running a gods game before Sunking first brought this up where the pc gods started a lot less powerful than we are starting here (but with total creation powers, lol) with frequent power increases.  Ironic, isn't it.



			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> And what your characters know is totally up to all of you there was some good roleplaying going on. I don't see where things went down hill. Maybe you as players didn't like Sirion's Curse, but look at it from a DM's point of view. An NPC antagonist to give you grief as you make your way in a new world, maybe behind the scenes maybe not, The Cult of Sirion, I mean the ideals just were flowing he did me a favor.




I confess that could very well be true.  I didn't like it even though I recognized that it was well played.  My failing in this regard was assuming there were only two options for Sirion:  1) Sunking picking him up and continuing as if the curse didn't happen and 2) You, HM, picking him up and running him as an npc as if the curse never happened.  Your option never even crossed my mind and is an awesome idea.  I'm sorry I forced your hand to the point that you felt it necessary to reveal this.  The surprise when we first encounter the cult of Sirion would have been one of those classic 'wow!' moments to remember for a long time.



			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> But what you allow her to know depends on you, your background might say this but later on we find out it wasn't that way at all. Don't tell me everyone hear has done their backgrounds before and kept them carved in stone. Background is 50% truth mixed with 60% rumor.
> 
> Ok I need a Roll Call and a what do you wish done.




I hear the truth in this but at the same time I was trying to make my background as true as was possible.

Roll Call:  I am here and want to continue, if there is anyone else who still wants to continue.


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## GlassEye (Feb 28, 2010)

Rathan said:


> Listen it was not my intent to fly off the handle in fact I never really did... I was perfectly calm when I wrote than response to the rants it was just me venting a bit because it seems no one can come to an even keel on anything here and it's frustrating. I have also been having some r/l family health issues that I've allowed myself to get too wrapped up in and have been trying to play the whole 'I'm the one in the family the needs to keep things held together'.. in light of that my stress levels have been on high. To be honest it's no excuse I should leave it at the door and for the most part I do. I will work on this personally to avoid this again.
> 
> I have REALLY enjoyed the character interactions thusfar in the Mist. It's all the rules and the patchwork forms they are taking that is hard to keep up with, coupled with the constant butting of heads both rules and character dynamic wise that's giving me some unease here. I WANT to make this work as I've ALWAYS wanted to make a God or Goddess to play.
> 
> ...




Thanks for this, Rathan.  It gives me hope that maybe we _can_ work things out enough to continue this.


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## Rathan (Feb 28, 2010)

Roll Call: I'm here and willing to hang in there... things need to get back to business and things needs to be closely watched to keep stuff like this under control. What I must ask is HM is do you have the time, patience, and sanity to still run this? heh


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## Sunking (Feb 28, 2010)

im still in, i would preffer we continue the timeline we have played so far (so much cool styff alredy) but no mater what im seeing this one to the end (since it cind of like somthing I have been thinking of running myself)  

Im thinking of making a NE minotaur god, the hunter, you keep what you kill kind of god 

why he will bring the black blood to the table (goblinoids, orks, minotaurs and some giants maybe) he be the counter to a good wargod and still be able to work with most...


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## Theroc (Feb 28, 2010)

lol.  Friendly rivals, Sirion?


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 28, 2010)

Duretep, The Lost Prophet, The Mad Seer will always be there to throw a wrench into all of your plans 

and since we are talking shop about what creatures our gods will be making here is Duretep's list: Aberations (rember when Torath interupeted Duretep's that might be an explanation), Kalashtar/Inspired, undead (me and Glasseye have got something big in store for everyone, just wait)


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## Sunking (Feb 28, 2010)

to Theroc
Friendly rivals, jep no fun being a war god without someone to throw ones army at... and those other gods seems to ocipied with butterflies, trees, mad ranting and fire 

And i suspect that we are gonna be alliced from time to time when the other try to stop our fun


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## Frozen Messiah (Feb 28, 2010)

Sunking said:


> to Theroc
> Friendly rivals, jep no fun being a war god without someone to throw ones army at... and those other gods seems to ocipied with butterflies, trees, mad ranting and fire
> 
> And i suspect that we are gonna be alliced from time to time when the other try to stop our fun




Chaos has it's fingers in everyones pie, even if you don't know it's there

Duretep does disdain from battle but he loves to create conflict, believe me as long as Duretep lives there will always be conflict from which war can and will spread.

Don't worry about Duretep. He is crazy, he can't do anything


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## Rathan (Mar 1, 2010)

Hmmm I'm thinking Lavaria will bring fire and limited air elementals to the table along with some outsiders if possible like Belors or the like with firebody just like herself. Maybe some other Races like Azer, perhaps if we can CREATE races I'd like to make a fire elf template much like the high elf and wood elf and wild elf kinda thing. Perhaps even delve into other races as well with the fire subtype like pyrohydras and the like.


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## Theroc (Mar 1, 2010)

I think draconic stuff would mostly be Torath's shtick, though anyone who can fight, so mayhap some giants and the like too.  Not sure exactly.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 1, 2010)

Planet green is back! Can someone sumarize me what are you speaking of in the OOC thread? I read the 3 pages of the IC, but this is too much!

An idea: What about spawning just a couple of creatures, and then morphing them, or mixing them? Like the Azers, they would by mixes of fire elementals and dwarfs, or could they the origin of the standard dwarf? Things like that. I think it's more fun that to just Create things.


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## Sunking (Mar 1, 2010)

well we have had a big discussion about me dumping Sirion and thats was me not having thought this throu so...

the a little mud flinging and restoration to order, don't know but things if I read the post right that ML left the game but im hoping im wrong.

---

and to the races I would think that we each started by creating/bringing one and the morphing and or create/bring more later.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 1, 2010)

Yes I was about to write a farewell post in the IC, have Heliasillyel give Ubariya the moon-eye back and in addition the sunspark that would give the world a sun even as she left, but one of the players convinced me to give the game one more chance via PM. And so I'm still here for now.

For the purpose of mutual cooperation i will stop suggesting things and just go with whatever HM decides.

Also, check this comic book out for inspiration, i just found it by accident. Can't seem to locate issue #2 though. Too bad i can't buy it here..

Oh and i added an image for Heliasillyel in the RG. She doesn't have a golden sun belt, her hair isn't waving around and she isn't radiating light, but the skin tone, the white gown and her face and eyes are almost like i imagined them. Well, i imagined her a bit darker and with a narrower, more elven face, but this is pretty close. in case you are wandering, i'm getting the images from elfwood (that's where my avatar is from as well)


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## GlassEye (Mar 1, 2010)

I'm very glad you decided to give the game and all of us another chance   Thank you!

By the way, really nice image and awesome comic.


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## GlassEye (Mar 1, 2010)

Ok.  I was looking things over and it seems everyone except Roman/Chrextes has indicated that they are continuing.  Hopefully Roman will speak up soon.

HolyMan, what do we need to do, either IC or out, to move to the next step?  Do we need to specify what we want created?  Do we need to make sure characters are complete? (I know mine is still incomplete).  We could talk IC for several more pages, I'm sure, but I for one am ready for a new scene.  But I don't want to rush it if there are still things we need to do here in the grey mist.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 1, 2010)

I agree with glasseye.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 1, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> I agree with glasseye.




I agree with Voda for agreeing with Glasseye 

And if anyone wants to check it out and give me some feed back on the additions to Duretep's wrap sheet I have updated it to include the Metropolis Lucid and The Citadel Prophetic in the RG.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 2, 2010)

Yes, when you are ready HM let's get this thing started. BTW I'm glad Sunking is using my format for his new God as well. Some day, all of ENWorld will use my sheet format, mwahahahaha! *evil laugh*


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## HolyMan (Mar 3, 2010)

Ready then, we have a couple things left to do but the two most important are:

*Finishing characters:* Let's try the "pass your paper to the person next to you" route. Everyone checks the RG post directly below theirs (skipping Sirion) and the last person in the RG checks the one at the top. I will go through them all but a little help goes a long way. You can check others if you like I would just like for everyone to help me in this.

*Where we are world wise: *The Forger like I said will create the shell of the world and he and his assistants will then give it any geographical landscapes you wish. The only thing here is to list what you want the world to look like. And you must decide where you dwell, and what that is like. After that any deals you made with each other must be listed and verified by the other person. Once the world is made I am ready with the first "adventure" for your group.

HM


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## Theroc (Mar 3, 2010)

Torath still isn't complete.  One of the reasons is I'm still confused why the size increase is different from the monster manual, and Voda's original proposal does not use the same stat changes for size changes as Holyman's is listed.

HM, did you change this intentionally(in that is how it will be for this game), or was this just a typo sort of deal?  I don't mean to be a broken record but I can't seem to be certain on which it is.  I need to know, since the halved benefits might change my trait allocations a bit.


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## GlassEye (Mar 3, 2010)

Also interested in the answer to size mods.  I discovered last night that the STR modifier I used wasn't the same as what is in the RG character creation guidelines.  Now that could just have been me misreading...

Myth, I think you are directly above me in the character list.  My pc isn't complete yet but I'll try to get it completed tonight.  It's all small stuff, I hope.


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2010)

VV's first post on the rules crazymonkey uses for making gods was posted  here 
It seems to state that for every point you put into a size increase you get +4STR -2DEX and +2 CON, and these are not cumulative like in the MM. The chart I found is for Improving Monsters (pg.291). There is no standard for the size of a monster and the bonus to stats I can find, stat increases are all done by race. 

Example: 
gargoyles get +4STR, +4DEX,+8CON,-4INT,-4CHA and are Medium size
hill giants get +14STR,-2DEX,+8Con,-4INT,-4CHA and are Large size 

The PC's start out with no bonus to stats and can increase them and they can also increase their size and there by get the improvements to their stats as a bonus. Kind of like building your outsider race.
The chart was copy pasted from VV's post so I was wondering how their was a difference. But maybe it is the way it is listed. The Ability Score Increase is seperate from Monstrous Size but the benefits to stats is listed there. 

Look at it like this you have two ways to increase stats and the second (Monstrous Size) gives you other benefits and penalties besides to your abilities. Hide checks, grappling, vertical reach, armor class, and attack rolls etc. But about the bonus they are as listed as is and I will clarifiy here.


```
Size           STR  DEX  CON  PT COST                
Diminutive     -6   +6   --     3     
Tiny           -4   +4   --     2
Small          -2   +2   --     1
Medium         +0   +0   +0     0
Large          +4   -2   +2     1
Huge           +8   -4   +4     2
Gargantuan    +12   -6   +6     3
Colossal      +16   -8   +8     4
```

So I hope this helps you determine your starting size Theroc and Glasseye.

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2010)

Lavaria DR listed as DR/- should be DR/+4 And I am still working on my DR house rules changing them to reflect this type of campagin it shouldn't be to hard just getting down to typing them all up is. LOL

List Caster LVL for spell like domain abilties since it is different than your HD/class lvl and will change when your DR changes. Also your caster lvl for being a sorcerer and your spell save DC base because your CHA is so high.

I don't see Lavaria's weapon and that should do it moving on.

The One and the Many:

Level is not 21 Your ECL is 21 if you wish to list it as that.
Grapple is listed as 32 I get 30 15(BAB)+ 12(SIZE)+ 3(STR)
Again DR should be DR35/+4
Spell save isn't your save vs spell it is asking for the base save for spell you cast.
Huge size modifier is a -2 to your AC (not +4) AC should = 28
Base saves should be:
Fort 22
Reflex 20
Will 22

Ok going for chinese will continue/finish TOatM when I return.

HM


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 4, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Lavaria DR listed as DR/- should be DR/+4 And I am still working on my DR house rules changing them to reflect this type of campagin it shouldn't be to hard just getting down to typing them all up is. LOL
> 
> List Caster LVL for spell like domain abilties since it is different than your HD/class lvl and will change when your DR changes. Also your caster lvl for being a sorcerer and your spell save DC base because your CHA is so high.
> 
> ...




AC bonus is given by the diminutive parts of the swarm, so as diminutive creature you get the =4 to AC plus some other things.
As a shambling mound I get the penalty


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 4, 2010)

The only thing i haven't listed is the bow, if you're ok with it i'll add it to my sheet. How many attacks should she get though?


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## HolyMan (Mar 4, 2010)

@ VV so your AC fluxuates[sp?] then go ahead and list both AC 

@ ML Whatever you decided your starting BAB is + DEX, Feats, and the like you will probably have somewhere up to 4 attacks per full action.

I am on the way to work so we all know I will post slow the next couple days lets finish checking characters (you all checking one I will check everyone) 

And then we should list here in the OOC what you have decided the world to look like.

HM


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## Rathan (Mar 4, 2010)

Other than the suggestions that HM mades for ToaTM... VV's chara he looks fine to me... I'm going to go crash now after one hours sleep and a full days work now gone and past LOL


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## GlassEye (Mar 4, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I am on the way to work so we all know I will post slow the next couple days lets finish checking characters (you all checking one I will check everyone)
> 
> And then we should list here in the OOC what you have decided the world to look like.
> 
> HM




Ubariya has undergone a fairly major revision within the past day.  I'm still in the process of ironing out the nitty-gritty details but there is only a little left to do.  Then the weapon.

As for what the world looks like, I guess we should post the info here for HM.  I've recently come up with some new ideas for Ubariya.  Outside of this, I don't really care what the world looks like.

*THE MOUNTAINS OF REMEMBRANCE*
_A place of broken mountains, tall and perilous but riddled with caverns, where those devoted to Ubariya can walk knowing that she is only a step away from them._
An extensive range of mountains, the Mountains of Remembrance are very tall, bleak and bare monoliths of splintered, gray and black rock.  Chasms fracture the range and radiate outwards to the edges of the foothills that surround the range.  The deepness of the chasms coupled with the height of the mountains ensure that light only ever briefly reaches the bottom.  Cloud cover is thick, muting light and making the entire range gloomy and dismal.  The weather can change at a moment going from cool and dry to bitterly cold with sharp winds and icy rain.  The ice, however, does not usually last long and melts away quickly.  Life is rare, not usually much more than lichens staining the rock.  The evidence of other life is abundant: strands of web stretch across the chasms.

_Note:  This area is not off limits to the other deities.  However, Ubariya considers these mountains to be a trial necessary for those mortals seeking her to overcome.  Major interference in the landscape or travelers will not be regarded kindly._

Ubariya is a dual-natured goddess.  As such, she has two vastly different homes.  Neither resides wholly on the material plane but the most likely way to enter either is through the Mountains of Remembrance.  There are no set gates; when Ubariya decides the journey has gone on long enough she will open the way either to the Cradle of Ubariya or the Black Chasm.  The transition is seamless and mortals are likely not aware that they are stepping into another realm except that the air is charged with an energy unique to a particular aspect of the goddess.

*THE CRADLE OF UBARIYA*
At the heart of the Mountains of Remembrance is the Cradle of Ubariya: the home of Ubariya in her life/motherhood aspect.  It is surrounded by mountains and several mountains have been uprooted and float in the sky at the edge of and over the Cradle.  Webs stretch between the mountains, the rim of the Cradle, and Ubariya's palace forming exceedingly complex patterns (think _Spirograph_).  The spherical palace is constructed of web and is suspended by web from the mountains and the Cradle's edge.  The bed of the Cradle itself is a large crater filled with a dense jungle full of life.  Ubariya welcomes the sun here but it is most beautiful at night with the light of the Eighth Eye (the moon) shining down and the remembrances of souls passed glowing in their turn throughout the entirety of the Cradle.

_Note: Heliasillyel and The One and the Many are very welcome in the Cradle.  Ubariya prefers to meet the other gods in the Black Chasm or their home or a neutral place._

*THE BLACK CHASM*
The Black Chasm is a chasm of infinite depth, darkness, and the despair that strikes just before death.  Its walls are shear stone, fractured and dangerous and strewn with wisps of broken web.  The only light within the chasm comes from the dim glowing remembrances of the dead which take the form of skulls of various creatures.  The center of the plane is Ubariya's palace: a structure formed from bones woven together with web.  Ubariya typically takes the form of an old crone or a monstrous spider while here.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 4, 2010)

just to tell everyone, i intend to make backstory on every high ranking member of Duretep's kingdom so his sheet is going to be expanding a little bit. 

I never got an yeah or nay on my intelligent item so I didn't post it, if you would like me to re-post it than I will.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 4, 2010)

Ok before i start writing about Matriarchs and High Priests i want to know if there is a point to this. HM do you need/want us to write up NPCs for our realms? Will they come in to play any time soon?

As a matter of fact, do we need to describe everything we need created as far as civilizations/cities/planes are concerned? Just asking because i don't want to spend writing 4 pages of descriptions of a city that will never see actual play.

Also since we are immune to Transmutation magic this means we cannot Haste ourselves. If so, i'd like to make the bow a Speed weapon later on. At least now i get the point of Divine Celerity. Also, if we are immune to mind-affecting spells, does this mean we can't benefit from stuff like Heroism?


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## GlassEye (Mar 5, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Ok before i start writing about Matriarchs and High Priests i want to know if there is a point to this. HM do you need/want us to write up NPCs for our realms? Will they come in to play any time soon?
> 
> As a matter of fact, do we need to describe everything we need created as far as civilizations/cities/planes are concerned? Just asking because i don't want to spend writing 4 pages of descriptions of a city that will never see actual play.




I second this sentiment.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 5, 2010)

OK added the weapon and attacks, swapped Improved Initiative for Rapid Shot (i can get it later for Supreme Initiative, but Initiative isn't that important anyway. Plus she has a lot of Dex).

Also swapped Dispel Magic SLA for +2 Dex, since Bards get Greater Dispel Magic anyway.

This should be it for my sheet. Who is checking it by the way, Voda or Sunking?


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## HolyMan (Mar 5, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> just to tell everyone, i intend to make backstory on every high ranking member of Duretep's kingdom so his sheet is going to be expanding a little bit.
> 
> I never got an yeah or nay on my intelligent item so I didn't post it, if you would like me to re-post it than I will.




If you do wish to list your high ranking memebers just do them in a seperate post in the RG. A The Followers of Duretep or some such. But note that these members will not be around to start you have zero followers when we start and will aquire them as we play so you are basically getting a jump start on the more reknown ones.

And just post the link to the post where you listed the weapons and I will go over them. 



Myth and Legend said:


> Ok before i start writing about Matriarchs and High Priests i want to know if there is a point to this. HM do you need/want us to write up NPCs for our realms? Will they come in to play any time soon?
> 
> As a matter of fact, do we need to describe everything we need created as far as civilizations/cities/planes are concerned? Just asking because i don't want to spend writing 4 pages of descriptions of a city that will never see actual play.
> 
> Also since we are immune to Transmutation magic this means we cannot Haste ourselves. If so, i'd like to make the bow a Speed weapon later on. At least now i get the point of Divine Celerity. Also, if we are immune to mind-affecting spells, does this mean we can't benefit from stuff like Heroism?




I don't need write ups to the npc's of your realms. It depends on how important they are to you and your character development. And this city is the same way. If you want to have a city built for your followers to dwell in when they arrive go ahead, but seeing play depends on how important it is to you. If it's just the city your followers live in, not much else needed to know. If it is the city your followers live in and you visit everyday, walking the streets bathed in celestial light. Well a little more info would be need. Actual play could happen, the more info you give me the better an adventure ideal may pop into the old noggin' 

Hmmm immune means none guess you have to take the good with the bad, but (always a but) we will work on a case by case or come up with a house rule or something. 

And Sunking checks whoever is under his latest post. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 5, 2010)

World info (from IC):
One & Many
Duretep
Heliasillyel
Chrextes' summation
More Duretep
Lavaria
Torath

That's it.  It's a fairly standard world.  I've added a little bit more specific information about the mountains Ubariya wants and pathways to her realm a few posts up.  You all have any other ideas you want included then speak up!   I would personally like a little bit more of the fantastic...

Also, I think Ubariya is finished.  Weapon finished (+4 Vicious Axiomatic Frost Spear) & pending approval.  And oaths and promises made that she will hold seriously (i.e. they involve her or all the deities) posted on her sheet.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 5, 2010)

Good work Glass Eye!  BTW HM I had gotten it wrong, it seems we can haste ourselves:


> Transmutation: A deity is immune to polymorphing, petrification, or any other attack that alters its form. Any shape-altering powers the deity might have work normally on itself.



It's not Transmutation school of magic, just negative effects.

However 







> Mind-Affecting Effects: A deity is immune to mind-affecting effects (charms, compulsions, phantasms, patterns, and morale effects).



 means that short of Divine or Epic Bardic Music, we can't be buffed via the likes of Heroism since in it's description it says it's a Compulsion/Mind-Affecting spell.


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## GlassEye (Mar 5, 2010)

Thank you.  I'm really excited about this game and am ready for whatever comes next!

What do you all think about using our own real world as a very rough guideline for the geographical elements of our fantasy world?  For example, instead of Australia we might have an area of mostly molten rock surrounded by shallow boiling seas and a bit further out scattered islands of various sizes where whatever mortal race Lavaria likes can live in proximity to an entrance to her realm.  The benefit of this is it would give us something more known to conceptualize our world on instead of having to create the world whole-cloth and from scratch.  Each of us could choose a spot, tailor to taste, and voila! easily imagined world ready to go.


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## Theroc (Mar 5, 2010)

Works fine for me.  Torath is still not finished.  I'm really getting a bit lost as to where to go with his stats and trait points.  There don't seem to be many salient divine abilities Torath will qualify for with his stats and portfolios and domains.  Also, I need to work on feats and the like.

For HP, do we do rolls, or is it max HP per die?


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## Rathan (Mar 5, 2010)

EDIT: I makes sense.... gives us the ability to turn to a real map and see what we can reach in real distances from where and what, basicly, the world will actually look like... I second this...

You my friend are a smart man Glasseye..... I likes it....Dibs on Australia! 


 To Theroc!



> This provides the character with:
> 160 hit points (+Con mod x 20)




and 



> Character Level 1
> Finally, the character has one level in a regular character class. The character recieves a feat for 21st level, skill points as a multi-class character, *maximum hit points for the class's hit die*, and the class features of the class's 1st level. However, BAB and Base saves are handled for your character level.


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## Theroc (Mar 5, 2010)

Works for me.  I'm not entirely certain what sort of environment would suit Torath.  I had been considering a cone of cold for his breath weapon, just because everyone else with an elemental affinity was fire.  Though I suspect Lavaria might not like that much...  

Lightning might work too.  Hm... lol.  Maybe Torath can expand his portfolio into storms(warring weather?), to fill the "Angry Poseidon" type of role, without being a sea god.

Not sure.  >.>


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 5, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> What do you all think about using our own real world as a very rough guideline for the geographical elements of our fantasy world? For example, instead of Australia we might have an area of mostly molten rock surrounded by shallow boiling seas and a bit further out scattered islands of various sizes where whatever mortal race Lavaria likes can live in proximity to an entrance to her realm. The benefit of this is it would give us something more known to conceptualize our world on instead of having to create the world whole-cloth and from scratch. Each of us could choose a spot, tailor to taste, and voila! easily imagined world ready to go.




I call dibs on Russia, the frozen north seems like the best place to place the Metropolis Lucid. The area is remote enough that if someone wants to get there the travel is arduous and tests their resolve (or in Duretep's case sanity) and due to it's remoteness it really won't effect everyone elses realm. 

Here is the re-posted weapon:

[sblock=Zidanrad, The Certain]
+3 Keen Throwing Returning Kukri
Int: 18
Wis: 18
Cha: 10

Senses:
Darkvision (120 feet)
Blindsense (120 feet)
Telepathy (with wielder)
Hearing

Languages:
Common, Auran, Ignan, Terran, Aquan

Skills:
Spot 14 (10+4)
Listen 14 (10+4)

Lesser Powers:
Zone of Truth (3/day)

Greater Powers:
Detect Scrying (continuous)
Status (at will)

6500gp left
[/sblock]

I now ask, could I use te left over gold to make Duretep succeed all ego check with Zidanrad and anybody else automatiaclly fail?


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## GlassEye (Mar 5, 2010)

Re: Torath.
First of all, this is all my perception and could be way off from your concept so keep that in mind.   Torath as draconic warlord seems to fit ideally as a Paladin of Freedom.  This may shut off a couple of fighter feat chains and SDA's but fighter could be his second class (if we get that far).  Paladin would open up spells and turn undead, both of which could be very good for him later.  Charisma seems to be the most important deific ability score so I would focus primarily on STR and CHR with CON secondary.  Leave his wisdom so that a 14 WIS is reachable for spellcasting purposes later.

You seem to have all the draconic attacks covered with your traits.  I would add a tail slap (if he has a tail) and since it could be classified as a slam you wouldn't even need to expend an extra trait point for it.

I like your idea of cold and/or lightning.  This could add frost and storm giants into the fold of your followers.  As for environment, if you stay with the cold idea and we use the real-world base idea, then I would consider the Himalayas for his massive fortress stronghold.  His warriors can train and war through the Indian subcontinent and then pass through low, warm valleys north into the plains to war against whatever lives in the north.

Possibly, Ras-gul (who has yet to make an appearance in the IC; get a move on Sunking! ) hunts with his dark blooded children in the boreal forests of the Russian north.  Seems like a great place for orcs, nasty giants, and the like.  This may set up a player conflict that we might prefer to avoid.  Just trying to get some brainstorming going...

Edit: Oops!  Took a long time posting and FM got in there with a good Russia idea.


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## Rathan (Mar 5, 2010)

It's impossible to have a God/Goddess game without SOME conflict guys... it WILL happen. It's how it's handled through followers and 'holy wars' that will make it fair and what such. HOPEFULLY the Gods themselves will not war with each other.. they have better things to do... but their followers will do as they are commanded if they are devote enough


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 5, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Oops! Took a long time posting and FM got in there with a good Russia idea.




I don't think it will be a problem because I much perfer the idea of a massive hoard being up in the Russian arctic. Although I will be moving The Metropolis Lucid, I see Ras-gul as being in Germany. The reason why was I think that his people could easily be based on the old germanic tribes, they were some of the scariest fighters in the world because they would just rush out of the woods and kill everything. He could have an area called The Black Woods, a massive forest where he mounts raids and all things that come into it are considered prey.

The Metropolis Lucid will be moved to the island of Japan. I believe that I might make te gate to the dreaming look more like a Tori Gate and allow some Japanese culture to seep into the realm of Duretep (ninjas???)


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## Sunking (Mar 6, 2010)

i have entered the mist...

I were thinking more along the line of south amerika with mayan inspiration: the hot and dangerous jungle great step pyramids were my people could sacrefice hordes of slaves in my name...
the problem is that we don't realy have oacens so I think im going to call dips on south asien for the enviroment and just bring the mayan inspiration (disney's the road to Eldorado, think evil priest)


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 6, 2010)

Guys I'm not sure I want to use the real world. All these references to Russia and Australia make this look like a geography class, not a DnD fantasy game. The whole point (for me) in playing DnD is to escape our reality and plunge in to a world of fantasy. The whole point of playing Gods is so that we can fashion a world to our liking.

Why don't we use basic guidelines, like the ratio of landmass to water, freshwater to oceans/seas, mountains to plains to deserts etc. but have it look completely different?


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## Sunking (Mar 6, 2010)

im with myth on this one, i just don't see how we are gonna make a mirror of our world without the oceans and i feel that "New" world should be more warm and damp without to much ice and oceans: if you look at portfolios and feel of the gods which would also give it a strong flavor which is cool


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 6, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Why don't we use basic guidelines, like the ratio of landmass to water, freshwater to oceans/seas, mountains to plains to deserts etc. but have it look completely different?




You know what, if you are willing to use that system and draw up a map and understand everything about the world and explain to us in laymans terms go for it but that doesn't mean that we are going to jump at it.

I believe that we understand the geography enough of our world to make it effective to play in and we aren't saying that we can't change it around a bit to make it interesting.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 6, 2010)

I'm also with MyL.

I was expecting to have, like one piece of earth, one big chunk, shaped like a ring around the globe, with the water in the poles, which as sunking suggested, will be more warm, allowing water to flow. 
In that ring of earth each one will pick a parcel and make it their own kingdoms or whatever. I pictured the Ona and the Many as having a central ring, dividing both hemispheres, filled with thick tropical jungles.


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## GlassEye (Mar 6, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Guys I'm not sure I want to use the real world. All these references to Russia and Australia make this look like a geography class, not a DnD fantasy game. The whole point (for me) in playing DnD is to escape our reality and plunge in to a world of fantasy. The whole point of playing Gods is so that we can fashion a world to our liking.
> 
> Why don't we use basic guidelines, like the ratio of landmass to water, freshwater to oceans/seas, mountains to plains to deserts etc. but have it look completely different?




Except nobody was fashioning a world at all and the game has slowed to a crawl because of it.  Using our map as a very rough guideline was just an idea to get people started thinking about how they would want things to suit their deity.  Using the place-names that people are already familiar with gives us an easy way to relate to place and distance.  In fact, I encourage massive restructuring of the world because I want it to be a fantastic place.  If you don't like the idea I'm more than willing to be inspired by some other idea.


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## Theroc (Mar 6, 2010)

I've never been much into going into details on the geography too much, since I haven't a mind for describing them in detail.

And apologies for the delay on Torath, things have been hectic lately, and I've been feeling really depressed, which doesn't make me conducive to thinking through lists of decisions and complicated choices and math.  Today was my birthday and I've been more depressed today than I have all month, just about.

I'll try to get some more worked out, but I've got some plans tomorrow so who knows how much I'll get done.


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## GlassEye (Mar 6, 2010)

I think I'm adding 'Dark Mother' to Ubariya's list of titles.  She'd do it just to irritate Ras-gul.  Don't take it the wrong way, though, Sunking; she would prefer Ras-gul to any of the other deities in the Mist now that Sirion is on vacation.  At least for the moment.

Re: Oceans.
Just because we don't have an ocean god doesn't mean we can't have oceans.  But since some of us seem reluctant to have them we could just make them shallow seas studded with islands large and small.  It fits with the 'young world' idea that has been presented.


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## Theroc (Mar 6, 2010)

Haha... I'm starting to think Torath will take a bit of that stormy wrath bit too, since... I think storms would suit him, and then we'd have an excuse for oceans if we want them.  lol.

As for his build, I had originally considered Paladin, but then due to MAD and the weak DC's on his casting had thought perhaps it was not a very good idea.  However, being a Paladin also opens Torath up to having a dragon as a mount in the future perhaps, which would be fitting.


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## HolyMan (Mar 7, 2010)

Hey guys just gave are your posts a glance and since I am getting off an 11 hour day don't have the energy for to much reading sorry this thread will be my first to be caught up. But I was thinking about you all today, and while I was offline I wrote this:

New advancement rules to help speed things along.

Take and add a second class to your characters, and add it on as if you are multiclassing. You advance in both classes at the same time. So your Ftr1/Clr1 will be Ftr2/Clr2 at 1,000XP. 

This should help, if you advance one "multi-combo class lvl" per month you all will be the equivalent of a 20th lvl character in 10 months (not bad for pbp standards).

Character level advancement bonuses will be done by total character lvls not total XP. So when you hit 1,000XP you will get the character lvl three feat and the lvl four ability adjustment. So it would be best to have those builds thought out I think advancement will be fast, in the begining.

So any comments let me know. See you tommorrow. 


HM


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 7, 2010)

Just checking MyL character, I didn't find anything amiss. Congratulations for your sheet format, it's quite nice! A couple of questions:
Why, if you are the goddess of light and such, you have time stop and mage disjunction as spell like abilities? I mean, of course you can, but I don't see the connection with the background.
Also I don't understand the place where you put your caster level and that, in one sblock it's listed 1, 20 10.. don't really know what that's about.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 7, 2010)

I was thinking in somthing like this:

http://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0AkGZsYIgn79wdFlla1NRVnlvYXFfS3VqS1M0eE9xZnc&hl=en


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## Theroc (Mar 8, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Hey guys just gave are your posts a glance and since I am getting off an 11 hour day don't have the energy for to much reading sorry this thread will be my first to be caught up. But I was thinking about you all today, and while I was offline I wrote this:
> 
> New advancement rules to help speed things along.
> 
> ...




This sounds like the gestalt rules, Holyman.  Were you aware of the similarity?

Gestalt Characters :: d20srd.org there's the link.

Anyways, did not touch Torath tonight... being that I was drinking for the first real time in my life, and ended up overdoing it... still feeling the hangover.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 8, 2010)

Why don't we just start off with our own islands all of the same size (fairly large) all of equal distance apart, this is where we will start. As time goes on the we will fill in the spaces in between as we see fit. This will mean we will slowly create the continent/s that we will be working on.

Now I understand that Lavaria won't be too pleased with all of the water but she can live in a volcano. One and the Many may also have problems with this approach but he can make the oceans and the land that he is on plentiful.

I think this is reasonable and will allow us to move the game along until we get to the point where we need to expand, but we will figure that out when we get there.


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## HolyMan (Mar 8, 2010)

I am not total familiar but I am playing a gestalt character in a pathfinder game and when I learned how we are to advance the thought came to me that it would be a good way to get your characters up tp those godly 40th levels a little quicker. 

You know the rules then?? If we character lvl about once a month in the beginning do you think that would be ok?

HM


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 8, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> Why don't we just start off with our own islands all of the same size (fairly large) all of equal distance apart, this is where we will start. As time goes on the we will fill in the spaces in between as we see fit. This will mean we will slowly create the continent/s that we will be working on.
> 
> Now I understand that Lavaria won't be too pleased with all of the water but she can live in a volcano. One and the Many may also have problems with this approach but he can make the oceans and the land that he is on plentiful.
> 
> I think this is reasonable and will allow us to move the game along until we get to the point where we need to expand, but we will figure that out when we get there.




I like that idea, the only problem I see is that being separated gives our humble DM some difficulties at the time of giving us a mission.


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## Sunking (Mar 8, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> I think I'm adding 'Dark Mother' to Ubariya's list of titles. She'd do it just to irritate Ras-gul. Don't take it the wrong way, though, Sunking; she would prefer Ras-gul to any of the other deities in the Mist now that Sirion is on vacation. At least for the moment.
> 
> Re: Oceans.
> Just because we don't have an ocean god doesn't mean we can't have oceans. But since some of us seem reluctant to have them we could just make them shallow seas studded with islands large and small. It fits with the 'young world' idea that has been presented.




Its ok you might be the dark mother of this world but you are never gonna be his darkmother...

and the suggestion about no oceans or atleast no big ones comes from that as stated earlyer about portfolio and also about it could be cool and give "new" world a special flavor which i find to be good.

ohh yes ML don't know if you saw it but some while back Sirion gave you the naming rite of this new world (a new begening) and no one objekted.
Just if you missed it, if you saw it and ignored it just ignore this to... it just it would be easyer to refere to a name the skipping around it.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 8, 2010)

OK come to think of it, the real-world map sounds fine. It will be easier for logsitic's sake. *Dibs on Japan!*  It has the awesome Mt. Fuji and it's an island, which reminds me of Evermeet, FR's own Sun Elves domain. So there!

[sblock=Heliasillyel's realm]
	

	
	
		
		

		
			





[/sblock]

VV: I don't have any particular RP justification for the SLA's i took, they just happen to be the most useful and non-redundant spells a Deity would need IMO. I don't think we need to go that deep in the RP department - so long as i don't have Heliasillyel cast Darkness and Necromancy spells it's fine i think. Plus there are not that many Light spells that i can cast outside of my Sun domain, and we already have a fire-based deity. 

Of course i admit it's also a powergaming choice. In Jemal's Legends game i learned the hard way that blasting (aka. direct damage spells) is severely underpowered in the later stages of the game, as HD and HP continue to progress but damage dice stay constant. My lvl 20 Wizardress emptied several 9 and 8 lvl spells only to have most of them nullified by a char with a high Dex save and Improved Evasion, and a fat 500 HP bear tank them all (complete with a critical from Meteor Swarm) 

This is the case for most AOE spells. Meteor Swarm is nice but it's good when cast with things like a Rod of Metamagic Empower, Divine Metamagic, Energy Admixture etc. which will come later on (so, taking it as a SLA is useless for me).

Sunking: Heliasillyel can name the world? Seeing as how the other Deities didn't agree with Sirion for the most part, I doubt she can use this as a pretext to do that without pissing them off. I myself can think of a name though, if you guys want me to.

HM: Dual classing seems like a good choice. It will take us 20 months to max out our deities, which is bearable. So should i use the rules you posted for the second class or the Gestalt rules in the SRD?


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## GlassEye (Mar 8, 2010)

My personal preference is for HM's second class idea and not the gestalt rules.  Though I'm having a hard time deciding on the second class.

I'm thinking I'll place the Mountains of Remembrance in the location of the Ural Mountains.  My mountains, however, will have several 'arms' of the range radiating outward from the Cradle.  Though I kinda am interested in being near water, also.  So it's a toss-up between the Ural and the Dinaric Alps/Carpathian/Balkan Mountains region...

IIRC, in the IC thread Duretep said that we can place his city wherever we want...  So what do you guys think?  England, where the fogs could roll out from the Metropolis Lucid?  Northern Russia, where dream phantoms might roam the dark northern forests?  Other ideas?

Myth, I have some geographical ideas for you if you are interested in hearing them.  If not, that's cool, too.

Myth, as long as the name isn't too elven sounding I don't mind if you name it.  (It took me a while before I felt comfortable with Heliasillyel's name and I still can't pronounce the second name.)


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 8, 2010)

The Balkan - "The Old Mountain" as we call it in Bulgaria. You can't go wrong with that choice, it's close to the Black Sea and not far to the South you have Rila, Pirin and the Rodopi mountains. To the North there is the Danube, cradle of life for Europe according to Celtic myth and lore.

Plus my home town is at the base of the Balkan mountains 

For Duretepp's realm i'd say Iceland. It's remote enough and can be viewed as "the end of the earth" by some.

Your suggestions? I'd be glad to hear them! I'm thinking of making Mt. Fuji a plateau instead of an active volcano, and having the city founded there, although without magic it will be hard to provision it with food from the lowlands. I'll have to give it some more thought, but I also have things to do for my own game as i'm 3 days late with the update, so it might be some time.

Heliasillyel would give it a very Elven name. Me as a player - something appropriate. Contrary to popular belief i am not equal to my characters  In fact, a good fantasy writer can put his or her mind to a multitude of personalities, characters and cultures. Fantasy is above all else, diversity.

For the name - Heliasillyel, i think it rather obvious: Helios - Titan of the sun in Greek mythology. Helia - female variant. Sillyel -l an Elven sounding group of syllables. The -el suffix comes from Tolkein, as one could have guessed. Sillyel just has a light feminine sound to it. Hence Heliasillyel. Nuevuyar - nuevo is new in Spanish, coming from the Latin novos. Uyar sounds like a good word for light in Elven. Well something like uyall would sound better but it would be too many "L" sounds in the name, so Nuevuyar it is (new light). There, now you have the reasoning behind the name, maybe now it will be easier to comprehend


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## Rathan (Mar 8, 2010)

I wan to say I should take barbarian as my second class... hmm.. not sure though.

Anyone got any other suggestions?


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## Theroc (Mar 8, 2010)

I am not sure I understand the difference between HM's twoclass thing and gestalt rules.

Can someone who's more rulesmart than me please explain the differences?


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 9, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> OK come to think of it, the real-world map sounds fine. It will be easier for logsitic's sake. *Dibs on Japan!*  It has the awesome Mt. Fuji and it's an island, which reminds me of Evermeet, FR's own Sun Elves domain. So there!




I believe that I have taken Japan, I thought that it was the best place because of it's remoteness.
But the fact was I'd said that you people may choose where my city will be so I conceed but I believe that Mr.Kilimajaro would be a better place to put you domain, but that is your choice and I am just putting in my two cents

I will probably be going either paladin of slaughter or soulknife (maybe) unless anyone has any other ideas.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 9, 2010)

I take China. I mean all tropical asia. 

o.o


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2010)

Argh!  I hate it when work interferes with my posting, lol.

Wow, Myth, that's some awesome information!  It's always interesting to get an insiders point of view about a region.  So, I'll take the Balkan area for Ubariya.  I'm going to work my godly mojo and change things up a bit to suit her purposes.  Hopefully it'll work out ok.

The name information about Heliasillyel is also really nice.  I love that sort of thing.  I'm always pulling a word from a foreign language dictionary and using it as a place name or character name but modified much like what you've done.  SO I retract what I said earlier about a name not too elven.  I'd rather you stayed in character and name it as Heliasillyel would name it.  

I like the choice of Japan for Heliasillyel (though any number of places would work for any of us).  The island is vaguely bow-shaped; I think it would be cool to emphasize that even more.  Maybe include an arcing range of low, tree-covered mountains with your plateau at the center of the arc so that your city looks out over a sea of green forest bejeweled with meadows of amber grass.  But also close enough that the occupants of the city can look out over shallow, sun-dappled, sapphire seas where golden spires of coral rise out of the water into fantastic palaces for elves of a more aquatic persuasion.  (Yeah, I know coral doesn't really do that.)  You definitely don't want an active volcano or Lavaria will be getting all up in your business.   As for food?  Orchards!  Or, maybe, sunfruit!  Fast, fun, _and_ delicious.  I don't imagine elves spend a lot of time in the kitchen; maybe you see it differently.  Anyway, that's about it; use any or none of it as you like.  Whatever you do I'll expect to eventually see some awesome names 

Re: Duretep's Realm.  Honestly it doesn't matter much where we put it; Frozen is going to be able to alter the surrounding area as he sees fit.  FM, you can still do the stuff you mentioned earlier.  In all fairness we should give FM a say in where he goes...  You _could_ go back to your original idea of Russia.

Rathan, I can't think of any class that seems as appropriate as barbarian since you are already a spellcaster.  I'm torn between options for Ubariya.  I've been thinking a full-casting class and a full BAB class would be best mechanically but not necessarily best for who she is.  Right now she is cleric 1 (though still subject to change).  I've also considered druid, ranger, prestige ranger (for the future), cobra strike monk, and I think that's it.  Any insight any of you can provide would definitely be welcome!

Theroc, My understanding is that HM would have us advance in two different classes whenever we gain a level and it would work just like multi-classing except we gain two levels at once.  Gestalt works a little differently in that when we gained a level we would get two classes but only take the best features of both classes.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 9, 2010)

Rathan said:


> I wan to say I should take barbarian as my second class... hmm.. not sure though.
> 
> Anyone got any other suggestions?



Rage makes you unable to cast spells, that's not a good synergy with Sorcerer or your SLAs. Fighter or Cleric might be better.

FM: Dang, hadn't seen that. If you are keeping Japan then i'll have to choose another spot. Also, remember to keep your classes SRD only. HM doesn't have access to other material.


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## Sunking (Mar 9, 2010)

Raz-Gûl is going Barbarian/Druid as it fits the concept

Glasseye: have you thought about rogue, you have spoken about you "dark" side before but don't know if it fits...

Voda vosa: I have already called dips on south asia (start of page 33) but have no objections about sharing with you (don't thing anybody would have objektions about sharing with you ) for my mayan inspired orc's

Rathan: I like the barbarian but if you feel like ML the maybe just fighter

Theroc: I would so advise you to go fighter/clearic for the holywarrior feal.

I would say not gestalt because then we run into all the gestalt problems to, and its already complicatet as it is, multiclass is core lets keep it simple (or as simple as posible when we play cosmic powers )


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2010)

Sunking said:
			
		

> Glasseye: have you thought about rogue, you have spoken about you "dark" side before but don't know if it fits...




Actually, that's a good idea.  It was one I thought about early on then forgot about.  It fits: cleric for her life-giving aspect, rogue for her death-dealing aspect.

There's also the Amazon and Congo for those of you who are liking the jungle-dweller idea...


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## Sunking (Mar 9, 2010)

i were thinking about south amerika at first but its just so far away that my followers won't have interaction with all of yours for some dang long time so im suggestion that we stay with eroupa, afrika and asia 

then we have a lot of diffrent envirements a lot of sroom and still close (as in no great ocean between us)  

then it up to HM if there is gonna be a north and south amerika and if there is it might be somthing for our bellivers to discover (he might even give these lands to someone or somthing else)


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 9, 2010)

Okay then I'm taking Italy and Greece. Southern Europe - the cradle of Hellenic culture, and later the heart of the Roman Empire. Athens, Sparta, Sicilty, Cappua and Rome are major trade hubs as far as sea trade routes are concerned. And it's sunny - perfect for a Sun God.  

Stating my seat of power on Mt. Olympus. And the colonies of Sun Elves occupying the whole Italian and Southern Balkan peninsulas in independent cities (similar to polii). Independent cities always make for good and epic events - just look at Athens, Sparta, Troy and Rome


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 9, 2010)

Sunking: Missed that! Anyway The one and the Many will be spawning almost everywhere he cans, as he didn't agree not to go into the other's frontiers, which if you come to think it, it's only logical, and as you say I don't think anyone would have objections about The Shambling One to be planting fruit trees, wheat and potatoes in their free terrain. 

I'll be giving more insight about Geas' followers, civilizations and races today. As a hint, they'll be like chinese plant-fungi (They already got the hats!)  dudes, heavy meditating folks like traditional taoists. 

About regions, I'll be taking the tropical regions from Africa to Asia as far as the orcs don't chop down the trees and burn the fields, although if they are sorta Mayans I don't think they'll do that.


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## Theroc (Mar 9, 2010)

So, each level is actually two levels then?

I'm still not sure what the difference is.  If I take a level of Fighter/Paladin, would I get 2 BAB(since each class grants 1 BAB) at each level up instead of 1?

That's simply an example, I just am not picking up on the difference.  Sorry if I am seeming stupid and dense, my parents woke me up early to help them go to the doctors, so I am blaming this on being sleepy, even though that's not likely the case.  As for location... What regions are currently available for Torath to claim?


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 9, 2010)

As promised:

*The Jade Realm*

This kingdom without boundaries, without walls, is the land of the Shenlin a peaceful race of myconid-like creatures. The Realm itself is a collection of villages and monasteries, inhabited by the Shenlin. This race has cylindrical bodies, which finish in a rather big mushroom hat, of different colors depending on the population. Shenlins have thin arms and strong legs: their arms are not suited for hard work, of the kind needed to build big buildings or carry heavy objects around, hence their shelters are made of vegetation, or in natural caves, or under the heavy canopy of the heavily vegetated areas they inhabit. A typical village of Shenlins is made of a series of shacks with oriental design, displayed like a circle around a hole in the ground, covered with white thin root-like things. That something is the mother and father of all the Shenlins in that village, the Shun. The Shun is an undergrown fungi, whose rootling goes deep into the earth and spread as much as the village spreads. (Think of a witches ring). Shenlins depend on the Shun to feed themselves. They plunge their feet in the ground, and the hair-like connections in them, connect with the Shun, who nourish them through it. At the same time, the Shenlins collect dead organic matter from the plants, dead animals and all kind of derbies and pile them in the central hole. The decaying matter is used by the Shun as food.
The Shun and the Shenlins share their thoughts, something like a hive mind, but not as developed. The Shenlins feel a strong connection with their respective Shun, and the Shun is a protective parent as well. Both are able to communicate telepathically, and through the link with the Shun, the Shenlins are able to speak into the other Shenlins of the village. 
Shenlins have cavities just below their hat, which resemble eyes and mouth, although they are not such things. Shenlins can perceive their surroundings by tremor sense and “eat” through their feet, and have no lungs to speak. They have a deep conection with the natural world around them, can hear the swinging of the trees, and whispers of the grass, as well as understand the animals and read the weather. Most of them are druids, although there are also monks who dedicate their lives to meditation and the purse of the path to enlighten. Most of these monks cut their links with their Shun and recluse in distant parts of the jungle, most of them in caves or mountains. 
The druidic Shenlins live in the usual villages, most near waterfalls or caves.
Shenlin
Medium humanoid
Subtype: Plant, Fungi
Abilit scores: -2 Str  -Cha +2 Wis +2 Con Shenlins are sturdy and wise, but they lack of expression and their arms are weak.
Traits: Plant traits (They need to “eat” through their feet, but don’t need sunlight.)
Special abilities: Shenlin Spores (The creatures adjacent to the Shenlin must succeed a Fort save or become sicken.)
Rooting (while rooted, the Shenlin regenerates 5, but is considered helpless)

The One and the Many is workshiped in the Shenlin monasteries and villages, and they give it many titles and names. They share the God’s mind in some extent, as to hear in their minds the voices of other plants and animals, or their lord’s commands, but unlike the other ant-minded creatures of the jungles, Shenlins are completely free willed, and although complied with the the other creatures, they retain certain individuality. 
Titles: Fungan Shun (Great Shun), Shuns’ Seeder, The Spore, The Great Spawner, Jungle’s Spirit.


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Okay then I'm taking Italy and Greece. Southern Europe - the cradle of Hellenic culture, and later the heart of the Roman Empire. Athens, Sparta, Sicilty, Cappua and Rome are major trade hubs as far as sea trade routes are concerned. And it's sunny - perfect for a Sun God.
> 
> Stating my seat of power on Mt. Olympus. And the colonies of Sun Elves occupying the whole Italian and Southern Balkan peninsulas in independent cities (similar to polii). Independent cities always make for good and epic events - just look at Athens, Sparta, Troy and Rome




I imagine that Heliasillyel and Ubariya will become allies but that's a lot closer than I'd like to have them living (with the noise from your dance parties I'd be calling the landlord all the time).  I'll move my mountains, probably back to the Ural or the Zagros.

Theroc, yes.  Any time you gain a level you add one level in the first class, then add a level in the second class gaining all abilities just like normal (causing us to level/power up twice as fast).


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2010)

[Dire Straits]I want my, I want my, I want my game update...[/Dire Straits]


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 9, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> [Dire Straits]I want my, I want my, I want my game update...[/Dire Straits]




Yes! Holyman you got us on the edge of our seats!

Also, I'm planning on taking levels in monk also.


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## Theroc (Mar 9, 2010)

I forget who it was that mentioned the Paladin and Paladin of freedom as ideas, looking at the features, the 3rd level paladin immunity is completely redundant since a deity is already immune to such affects(Fear or compulsions both).

As for classes, I'm thinking perhaps Fighter/Paladin, perhaps with some barbarian levels, though I'm not entirely certain.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 9, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Rage makes you unable to cast spells, that's not a good synergy with Sorcerer or your SLAs. Fighter or Cleric might be better.
> 
> FM: Dang, hadn't seen that. If you are keeping Japan then i'll have to choose another spot. Also, remember to keep your classes SRD only. HM doesn't have access to other material.




If you want to go into Japan go for it, I only went there because i liked the idea of a big angry evil minotaur walking around with a massive horde in the Frozen north.

If I were to have any choice in the matter I would now move my realm to the middle east. I just like the idea of people walking through the desert and coming to this massive black iron structure. It would also mean that the denizens of the dreaming who are allowed to walk the world will have a middle easter flair to them.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 9, 2010)

Italy and Greece are fine for me too. I'm sort of torn between them and Japan now that you have relinquished it 

I'll stick with the Mediterenean though, it gives my domain a rout to the other parts of Europe, across the sea there is Africa, and to the south-east, Asia Minor and the middle east. Japan is awesome but it is too far removed for Heliasillyel's communicative nature.


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> If you want to go into Japan go for it, I only went there because i liked the idea of a big angry evil minotaur walking around with a massive horde in the Frozen north.
> 
> If I were to have any choice in the matter I would now move my realm to the middle east. I just like the idea of people walking through the desert and coming to this massive black iron structure. It would also mean that the denizens of the dreaming who are allowed to walk the world will have a middle easter flair to them.




Frozen, that is one really evocative image.  I like it.   Which desert?

With all this jumping around I'm not really sure who is where now...  Let's see:
The One and the Many - equatorial jungle regions (southeast asia, africa)
Ras-gul - southeast asia
Lavaria - Australia (maybe pulled up a little tighter to Indonesia?)
Duretep - a desert (Sahara? Empty Quarter? Other?)
Heliasillyel - the Balkans
Ubariya - thinking the Zagros (south-ish of the Caspian Sea in Iran) or the Urals.
Torath - ???
Chrextes??? - anyone know if Roman is still with us?
Did I miss anything?


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 9, 2010)

I was looking at a desert called Rub' al Khali, a massive salt desert that is in Iran. Much of the wildlife only comes out during the night, just as that is when people sleep. It kind of shows how the Metropolis has effected the area around it causing more activity in the night than in the day.

What also comes to mind is the story of the Sandman who rules the dreaming, the desert will probably gain a different title over time though in the world because among the sands somttimes people can see ghostly images and faint outlines of creatures in the distance.


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## GlassEye (Mar 9, 2010)

The Rub' al Khali is a sand desert in Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen & UAE, I think.  The English translation of the name is the Empty Quarter.  The salt desert of Iran is the Dasht-e Kavir.  Either would be a nice choice.

Oh, Voda, meant to tell you I like your Shenlin write-up.  Reminds me of the clonal colonies of aspen trees.


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## Rathan (Mar 9, 2010)

I think I'm going to stick to Australia... In this worlds case it's going to look a BIT different. 

I'm going to have it resemble a super volcano in build, the largest concentration of Volcanic activity on the face of the planet itself. Picture Mordor from LoTR kinda landscape with fissures and windows into the glow red lava just below the surface. The ground will be VERY unstable however looking over the landscape even though it looks dangerous there is also an eerie beautiful woman's touch to the spindles of old hardened lava flows and broken land. In the center of the massive land mass sits a MASSIVE super volcano the size of the state of Rhodes Island just to give a bit of scale. I would assume that the volcano would be one of the only landmarks visible from space above. This peek would stretch and reach nearly to the highest elevations know on the planet giving Lavaria a touch of sky and air into her range of possibilities of portfolios as well. Inside this massive melting pot of a super volcano is a series of 'safe'.. or should I say semi stable, passages that lead to portals to her realm of lava and fire. These tunnels were formed by carefully controlled tunnel flows of lava now gone and left behind pathways to her realm. Lavaria has named the maze of tunnels interwoven within her super structure "Cinders Path". These tunnels if traversed with no knowledge of intuit direction could have mortals lost for 3 lifetimes. All told there is nearly 1000 miles of connected maze tunneling. 

As stated in the IC channel though this portals to her 'hell' realm are ONE way and the only way out is the gatekeepers of fire who take orders ONLY from Lavaria.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 10, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> The Rub' al Khali is a sand desert in Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen & UAE, I think.  The English translation of the name is the Empty Quarter.  The salt desert of Iran is the Dasht-e Kavir.  Either would be a nice choice.
> 
> Oh, Voda, meant to tell you I like your Shenlin write-up.  Reminds me of the clonal colonies of aspen trees.




Thanks buddy! spend a good time writing that up and actually coming with the idea.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 10, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> The Rub' al Khali is a sand desert in Saudi Arabia, Oman, Yemen & UAE, I think. The English translation of the name is the Empty Quarter. The salt desert of Iran is the Dasht-e Kavir. Either would be a nice choice.




I think I am going to go with Dasht-e Kavir, I would perfer to stay in Iran so I don't get too close to you guys and I just have something in my heart for salt deserts


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## Theroc (Mar 10, 2010)

Haha, I think Torath could make it anywhere, but being all dragon-y and being able to fly, he'd likely like a mountain somewhere in his realm as well.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 10, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Frozen, that is one really evocative image.  I like it.   Which desert?
> 
> With all this jumping around I'm not really sure who is where now...  Let's see:
> The One and the Many - equatorial jungle regions (southeast asia, africa)
> ...



Also the Italian peninsula, I must insist!


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## HolyMan (Mar 10, 2010)

Update tonight everyone. 

As it seems almost everyone has come to a consensus. On the way they wish the world to be handled. My question now would be are the locations of your godly realms are the same as the world would a neutral spot a "City of the Gods" be needed for meeting each other or not. I am good either way. 

Also remember the world will be devoid of followers, and you will need to think of if you wish to try 'creating them' or ship them in (Like ML). I will provide the means just need to know the way you want it done.

Can anyone think of anything else?? I will be answering any past questions tonight. You may repost them if you wish, but not needed.

HM


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## Rathan (Mar 10, 2010)

Are we allowed to 'create' races?... or do they have to be stock? 

I can see Lavaria 'infusing' current races in the SRD with the spirits of fire elementals making new races and the like with fire based defenses and powers. Kinda like giving them the fire subtype but more customized. Is this a possibility?


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## HolyMan (Mar 10, 2010)

This is D&D anything is possible. 

You would need to figure how you will aquire your specimen's then, ship in or steal (??) or have someone create some base creatures for you. I'm leaning towards having a The Forger like entity of Life pass you guys way, but this is only a thought so far (alot of brainstorming).

HM


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 10, 2010)

Rathan said:


> Are we allowed to 'create' races?... or do they have to be stock?
> 
> I can see Lavaria 'infusing' current races in the SRD with the spirits of fire elementals making new races and the like with fire based defenses and powers. Kinda like giving them the fire subtype but more customized. Is this a possibility?




What about having the regular fire elementals for starters, but you know, smart ones. As the thing goes, other gods will have their race of followers, and then the stealing can began. I think asking the Forger is just too easy piece. 
I propose one race of sentient creatures each, and then minor stuff. 
The Seeder will create the Shenlins and bring a seed of each species of plants in Geas to this new world. Of course HE has them inside of him, but technically it's transporting.

Also on something completely unrelated: Try listening "A brave new World" from Iron Maiden, great song for this game.


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## Rathan (Mar 10, 2010)

It was more of a general question VV.... I was more thinking for later on when we have enough DR to create mortal beings anyways I just thought I'd ask the question while it was fresh in my mind. 

My first race I would be bringing here would be fire elementals anyways.... and of course making them of average intelligence was my first priority...

It would also be a cool mechanic to be able to 'infect' some other deities creations as well with spirits of fire elementals thus the birth of mixed races


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## GlassEye (Mar 10, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> This is D&D anything is possible.
> 
> You would need to figure how you will aquire your specimen's then, ship in or steal (??) or have someone create some base creatures for you. I'm leaning towards having a The Forger like entity of Life pass you guys way, but this is only a thought so far (alot of brainstorming).
> 
> HM




Gah!  Lots of ideas but little time to post at the moment.  Anyway, I am opposed to an entity creating life for us.  I feel it really lessens the impact of the story.  Why should I care about this world if I didn't create it; why should I care about any race on it if I didn't create any of them?  If you want to limit us in race creation have residual power from creation imbue the area and us gods can create a race or two (or whatever) from it before the power fades and we are back to our normal DR0 selves.

My personal preference would be to hand-wave the power and work solely story-based.  I'll use my own character as an example: I have from the beginning described Ubariya as a pregnant woman (see her 'secret history' for the why).  She has mixed blood with Duretep during their oath and absorbed a small portion of power from Heliasillyel during their bargain and therefore I could theoretically justify coming up with at least three races from the soul-eggs she carries in her belly: one untouched by the others' power, one affected by Duretep's madness (and Frozen Messiah and I have discussed this possibility quite a bit), and one affected by Heliasillyel's power.

Anyway, that's all I have time for right now.  More later.
--GE


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 10, 2010)

Working in story mode only is awesome, this was the first kind of pbp RPing i ever did. BUT it requires mutual understanding, otherwise there will be people pointing fingers "Hey your guy is stronger/better/flashier than my guy!"

BTW HM can you let Heliasillyel guide the Forger's power in the creation of the sun? I'd like to RP and describe the birth of a star. Also, i'm still very keen on the idea of the Goddess, sitting in the middle of the sun's body in lotus position, whenever she isn't roaming the earth or visiting other Deities.

I'm also for us having a divine meeting grounds, sort of like a "Keep of the Gods", maybe a castle made of white granite on top of Mount Everest? It's like a neutral place we can use to meet up without worrying over mortals (it should be warded against creatures that do not possess a DR), or risk entering anotehr God's domain, but still something corporeal and not like the Mist.


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## Rathan (Mar 10, 2010)

I would have to agree with ML here as well. A 'Keep of the Gods' is essential as it will allow us neutral ground if need be for disputes between Gods and Goddess and their transgressions. I was also thinking either massive and granet or a palace of pure silver and gold. Like shining citadel so to speak.

I also like the idea of having the forger HELP us create our own births of mortals on the face of the planet. Perhaps when the forger creates this world he dies in the process giving us one last gift of the temporary ability to create life or some such situation?... I dunno just throwing the idea out there is all.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 10, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> I'm also for us having a divine meeting grounds, sort of like a "Keep of the Gods", maybe a castle made of white granite on top of Mount Everest? It's like a neutral place we can use to meet up without worrying over mortals (it should be warded against creatures that do not possess a DR), or risk entering anotehr God's domain, but still something corporeal and not like the Mist.




I already have knowledge of a place called Common Ground, a demiplane meant for just this reason. It's from Manual of the Planes so if there are any questions I can answer them quite easily. 

It's basically a huge circular room with a massive domed roof and a floor of polished jade. In the center there is a gold-veined black marble great table with many chairs around it (I suggest that everyone has a distinct chair for their diety). Doorways full of mist are on the walls that act as portals to the dieties realm. At the center of the table sits a black orb which a diety may touch to transmit a sending to another diety, this sending can be ignored. Time within Common Ground is static meaning no time goes by in the real world and nothing can harm anything else in the plane.

So if within all of our realms we have a doorway to this place and then we can use it as we see fit.


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## HolyMan (Mar 11, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> HM: Dual classing seems like a good choice. It will take us 20 months to max out our deities, which is bearable. So should i use the rules you posted for the second class or the Gestalt rules in the SRD?




We will level up like muticlassing, maybe thats what all deities do?? How else do you explain them being so high a level.

And HP will be max for each class at each level. So a fighter1/cleric1 with a CON of 14(+2) would get 22 HP when he recieved 1,000xp and became a fighter2/cleric2

HM

EDIT: And I like the meeting room ideal a place with a doorway with each holy symbol on it. Instant transport to each others realms.


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## HolyMan (Mar 12, 2010)

Great posts so far everyone I can't wait till the world is ready. For those of you undecided about geography or what you think you can contrbuite just post your character giving himself and some of his power to The Forger to empower the OverGod. And then later you can post in what it is you gave to the world even if it is just helping shape the planet.

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 12, 2010)

Yeah, great posts guys.  Still at work right now so I don't have time to make my post, yet...


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## GlassEye (Mar 12, 2010)

Sound off if you do or don't plan on making a world creation post.  Otherwise we can have Voda Vosa do his vegetation post (if he plans on it, that is) and move on.

I am done and don't have further plans to post concerning world creation unless I get inspired by someone else's post.


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## Rathan (Mar 12, 2010)

I have my firey core.... fissures.... and volcanoes... plus my island of fire and cinder which is earth's Australia...

With this said.. I think *I* myself am all set to move on...


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 12, 2010)

Duretep won't be making a move until the earth is actually formed because his gift is in the mind of individuals and not something inate in the world.


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## Theroc (Mar 12, 2010)

I wanted to have TOrath do something, but I haven't decided what yet.  Will try to get a post done soon, if I need to be skipped for speed's sake, could we just say TOrath lent his strength to the process?


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## HolyMan (Mar 14, 2010)

Hmm... I guess the hand of a giant god was to much???

Everyone is standing around in quiet awe LOL 

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 14, 2010)

Well, three of us _have_ gone through the gate.  After that I'm just not sure what to do against a being that can palm an entire world; I'm just a teensy-weensy spider-goddess, after all.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 14, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Well, three of us _have_ gone through the gate. After that I'm just not sure what to do against a being that can palm an entire world; I'm just a teensy-weensy spider-goddess, after all.




I think the best opition is to think happy thoughts and have an escape plan ready.


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## GlassEye (Mar 14, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> I think the best opition is to think happy thoughts and have an escape plan ready.




I'm in trouble then.  Left my happy thoughts in my other pants and my escape plan is going to be delivered by FedEx next week.  Who do gods pray to, again?


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## HolyMan (Mar 14, 2010)

_"The itzy bitzy spider, climbed up the giants arm._
_Hoping all along not to be squished into goo._
_With no way to do it harm._
_The itzy bitzy spider knew not what to do."_


No worries guys this all in hopes if it goes well we will have those oceans you wanted. 

So whose left to get us started? ML, Theroc, Sunking, and hopefully Roman

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 15, 2010)

Hmm.. was thinking today that my post may not have givin off excatly the right description I was going for.

What you saw of The forger and the giant hand were like essences of power. You were standing in the Grey Mist "watching" The Forger detail the world, and it appeared he stood over it with chisel and hammer in hand. But that isn't the actual, so say if you were standing on the world you would not see a giant chisel come down and make a ravine. You would just see the land move apart.

The same with the hand, it wasn't his actual hand it was the essences of his power "to reach out and grab the world". So you must go sever his hold break his power. I will give a clue to that once everyone is planet side. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 15, 2010)

Five of the seven characters in the RG have posted that they have gone planet-side (one pc isn't posted yet and the player hasn't posted in this game for some time).  I would say that's a good enough percentage and go ahead and post so that it doesn't slow things down to an unbearable level for the rest of us.  YMMV, of course.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 15, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Five of the seven characters in the RG have posted that they have gone planet-side (one pc isn't posted yet and the player hasn't posted in this game for some time). I would say that's a good enough percentage and go ahead and post so that it doesn't slow things down to an unbearable level for the rest of us. YMMV, of course.




Duretep is within the realm of dreams which means that if the planet is destroyed or what have you nothing will harm him but he hasn't given up the fight I was just waiting to get confirmation from HM for an Idea I had that may allow everyone else sometime to actually do some severing.

All I need is a little bit of trust and hope everything goes to plan, if it does we may actually scare off every other god from going on to our turf


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## Theroc (Mar 15, 2010)

ARGH!  ~pulls out hair~  I can't find where HM posted about the breath weapon stuff now!  >.<!

All I can find is Sunking's idea.

Which reminds me.  Can someone who is good at theorycrafting tell me what the 'average' damage output at these levels are?  I want to be able to figure out if I can make a 'worthwhile' breath weapon using traitpoints or if I am just making Torath weaker by not investing all my traitpoints into Attribute Increases.

Edit: Oh, and HM, as a Paladin at level three, Torath would gain a redundant immunity to Compulsion effects.  Well, mostly redundant since he wouldn't even be able to grant the party benefits due to his party being made of similarly Compulsion immune gods.

Is there something Torath will be able to swap out instead of that Aura?


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## Rathan (Mar 15, 2010)

Well Theroc... a Very Old Red Dragon who's DC is 21 would have a 9d6 fire cone breath weapon with a DC of 29 for a refl save... I'd say something around that this good.... let me see if I can look back to find HM's post about the breath weapons for you...

EDIT: Ok as far as I understand the passages written between you and HM.... HM left the breath weapon and how much TP's to spend to get what out of it to Sunking. 

MY suggestion was crap... refer to Glasseye's suggestion below.. it's MUCH more balanced and fair...

Sunking... HM.. Theroc... your thoughts please?


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## GlassEye (Mar 15, 2010)

Yikes!  Ok, I'm not Sunking, HM, or Theroc but I gotta say I think that is too expensive.  Consider that he could get a 10d6 fireball at will with one point, or a 15d6 cone of cold 3/day for one point.

My suggestion:
--Breath Weapon (3 points): 1d10 per 2 hit dice, cone-shaped, fire, DC 10 +1/2 hit dice +Con mod., usable every 1d4 rounds.


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## Rathan (Mar 15, 2010)

that's fair.... Mine was based on the fact that our spell-likes that are only a little better as usable only once a day and his is once every 1 to 4 rounds isn't gone as soon as he uses it..... 

but reading it it sounds more than fair based on average, mean, and max dmg possible and frequency not to mention a nice possible DC... scratch my idea... go with glasseye's... however I would suggest that he is allowed to pick which element he'd like it to be himself...


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## Theroc (Mar 15, 2010)

Glasseye's idea sounds good, except the part where it has to be fire.  I was trying to differ a bit from Lavaria and Helia here.  (Shortening M&L's Character's name for ease).


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## Rathan (Mar 15, 2010)

GO WITH ACID! Acid is ALWAYS fun on the battlefield! LOL


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## GlassEye (Mar 16, 2010)

Theroc said:


> Glasseye's idea sounds good, except the part where it has to be fire.  I was trying to differ a bit from Lavaria and Helia here.  (Shortening M&L's Character's name for ease).




You are right.  You should be able to choose energy type.  And I would say area of effect as well: cone, line, etc.


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## HolyMan (Mar 16, 2010)

I concer with GlassEyes breath weapon proposal, but is there some way to make it one point (and weaker) and then spend points up to a max and let's say double up:

1 point  = 1d4 per 2HD, maximum 30'(cone/line), DC 10 +1/2 hit dice +Con mod., usable every 1d4 rounds.
2 points = 1d6 per 2HD, maximum 60'(cone/line), DC 10 +1/2 hit dice +Con mod., usable every 1d4 rounds.
3 points = 1d10 per 2HD maximum 100'(cone/line), DC 10 +1/2 hit dice +Con mod., usable every 1d4 rounds.

And so forth... just need to have it at a one point buy for if others want a similar yet weaker effect.

And you could go as high as 5 points if you wished.

HM


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## Theroc (Mar 16, 2010)

What would 5 points be?


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## HolyMan (Mar 16, 2010)

Knew he was going to ask LOL 

4 points = 1d12 per 2HD maximum 120'(cone/line), DC 10 +1/2 hit dice +Con mod., usable every 1d4 rounds.
5 points = 2d8 per 2HD maximum 150'(cone/line), DC 10 +1/2 hit dice +Con mod., usable every 1d4 rounds.

Trying to keep in thirds as much as possible, but some of the dice/numbers would seem odd. 5 points for a 20d8 attack feels right, you would be missing +10 to a stat or five at will powers.

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 17, 2010)

Ok have been brainstorming ideals for FM and getting encounters ready for what will be are first combat with these immortals. 

Are characters double checked?? I stopped at VV's but will try today to finish one or two more.

And Combat Blocks: Diffently a must for this LOL  and mybe in different sblocks like ML's character sheets. One sblock for stats and one for spells and one for special abilities. Think on it.

I will be updating the IC tonight describing what you see planet side.

HM


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## Theroc (Mar 17, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Ok have been brainstorming ideals for FM and getting encounters ready for what will be are first combat with these immortals.
> 
> Are characters double checked?? I stopped at VV's but will try today to finish one or two more.
> 
> ...




>.<  I'm terribly sorry, HM, but Torath still isn't finished.  I've been really... somewhat lost as to where mechanically to take him, since he doesn't fit neatly into any one bundle.

I'll try to get more work done on Torath soon.  I really want to continue this game, I'm just a bit overwhelmed by the options and figuring out which will fit Torath(especially since I want to make sure Torath isn't a 'bum leg' for the group in terms of effectiveness.)

Also: Did you see my question about Paladin abilities?  Paladin's get a benefit at level three (be they freedom or standard) that is 100% redundant with being a Divine being.  Immunity to compulsions or fear when you're immune to compulsions or fear doesn't sound like much benefit.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 17, 2010)

Well VV checked my sheet but he had missed the fact that i hadn't added my Bard saving throws to the base saves i got from 20d outsider. I also hadn't added my second class, i wanted your input first. Since i will definitely be going with Bard for Heliasilyllel, I remembered that Bards can cast in light armour. You know who else can cast in light armour - Battle Sorcerers! Which is fine, but then i remembered two things:

1. We don't get any armours and i'm not sure if we will ever get a chance to get such items. If not, it's not worth it to sacrifice spells known, as Sorcerers are already terribly limited when compared to Wizards.

2. Heliasillyel will get crazy high Dex, which will actually make her have _less_ AC when wearing armour. Are there any rules to up the "max dex" value of a suit of armour? Esentially, she will be able to cast both Bard and Battle Sorc spells in a Mithral Breastplate, but if i go for that, having 30 Dex will be a waste..

soooo, whaddya think? I can always go with a Robe of the Archmagi or something like that, and just ignore the armour casting bonus of Bards, and just take regular Sorc levels.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 17, 2010)

Why don't you go shugenja? they cast based on CHA and use divine spells of a broad list.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 17, 2010)

'Cause I don't want to make this game even harder for HM to DM, he has trouble with non-SRD sources


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 17, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Why don't you go shugenja? they cast based on CHA and use divine spells of a broad list.




SRD only, if all classes were open than I would be partying with my warlock/wilder combo

On that point I think I might switch out Destiny for Darkness. I think it repersents the dream side of him better becasue Duretep is what goes bump in the night.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 17, 2010)

And why not arcane archer then? or it has to be a base class?


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## Theroc (Mar 17, 2010)

M&L: Divine Abilities And Feats :: d20srd.org

In regards to your armor question.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 17, 2010)

> On that point I think I might switch out Destiny for Darkness. I think it repersents the dream side of him better becasue Duretep is what goes bump in the night.



Careful you'd be stepping on Ubariya's toes.

Divine Armor Mastery sounds great!  Thanks Theroc! 

If splatbooks were allowed there are dozens of broken combinations, such as monks who use CHA instead of WIS, unbalanced Sorc/Druid/Cleric spells, unbalanced items, flaws (Complete Mage, Unearted Arcana), unbalanced PrCs - Incantatrix for example, and a lot more nasty monster abilities from the later MMs, Vial Darkness/FIend Folio etc.


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## HolyMan (Mar 17, 2010)

Yes everyone sorry we need to keep it simple.  Maybe someday someone will run a Gods Gone Amok game where you can be crazy class combos.

And in answer to VV question you can take a prestige class as soon as you quailfy for it (didn't GlassEye have Horizon Walker as her first lvl class before she decided something different?)

So you could be Sor1/Drangon Disciple1 at 2nd lvl you are gods after all.

HM


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## Theroc (Mar 17, 2010)

Haha, the Dragon Disciple is a bit more tempting now, since it'd take less time to achieve, but still not sure how much losing the levels in fighter/paladin would matter.


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 17, 2010)

So Bard Arcane archer would be a blast, specially for MyL Goddess, since she could imbue her arrows with her area spells.


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## HolyMan (Mar 17, 2010)

I thought you would do it to get "the look" and save special trait points for stats and other abilities. Almost that Torath grows into the first dragon.

HM


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## Theroc (Mar 17, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I thought you would do it to get "the look" and save special trait points for stats and other abilities. Almost that Torath grows into the first dragon.
> 
> HM




Haha, but the history and concept for Torath dictates that that has ALREADY happened to him.  The way he's setup, he's already BECOME dragonlike.

In order to do this, I cannot wait for the full progression through Dragon Disciple.  Also, the sorcery is counter to his personality, for the most part.  So, the level in sorcery doesn't make much sense except as a prerequisite, which would leave him with pathetic spellcasting ability with little benefit.  (I doubt level 0 and 1 spells will be very important for Torath, lol)


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2010)

Since when is true strike unimportant but maybe you are right.

Have I read your background I can't remember it if I have. But let me see if I have this correct. In your other realm you progressed beyond mortal status and entered the realm of godhood. Since you could starts out looking like a dragon your character could be one in reality, just need to spend trait points to get some of the abilities, Flight, Dragon Breath, ??? hmm really that is it to make you dragon like to start you would look like a dragon, and fly and have a breath weapon. 

About spell casting you know you cast domain spells at will, so you have at least three 9th lvl spells at your disposal. CL = 10 + DR 

And 24 other spells to choice from, though you may be right don't see you using the lower lvl ones much. 

HM


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## HolyMan (Mar 18, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> So Bard Arcane archer would be a blast, specially for MyL Goddess, since she could imbue her arrows with her area spells.




Not a bad combo also she would always have magic arrows at upper lvls.

@FM ok my dream brainstorming has come up lacking becaus eall I can think of is to run the World of Dreams kind of like what is in the Wheel of Time series. Now I really hate to copy off but that is really a great way to combine what happens in one transfering to the other.

So if you have any ideals let us try and work out some sort of "Laws of the Dreamscape" together.

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 18, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> @FM ok my dream brainstorming has come up lacking becaus eall I can think of is to run the World of Dreams kind of like what is in the Wheel of Time series. Now I really hate to copy off but that is really a great way to combine what happens in one transfering to the other.
> 
> So if you have any ideals let us try and work out some sort of "Laws of the Dreamscape" together.
> 
> HM




Alright, here are some of the major factors of the realm of dreams:

1) It is a massive plane on which other smaller bubbles where dreaming selves of any dreaming entity go. The actual plane of dreams is a massive field of green grass and a blue sky (in truth it is merely the way all sentient creatures percieve it, they are actually floating in space). Inside of the dream bubbles are demiplanes that are created by the dreamer.
2) All dreamers enter into the realm of dreaming with only their mental self within it. There is no magic, short of walking through the Portcullis Chimeric, that allows for physical entry into the plane of dreams
3) Dreamers cannot be harmed by their own dreams but something that come into the dream realm physically treats them as incorporeal.
4) magic in this realm is not very reliable and has a cahnce of not functioning properly or at all. This chart is from Heroes of Horror
[sblock=Magic in the Realm of Dream]
*1-5:* Spell works but looks different (different color, flashing lights,odd sounds)
*6-7:* spell is cast at 1d4 caster level lower
*8-9:* spell is cast at 1d4 caster level higher
*10-11:* the target person/area is changed, determine randomly
*12-13:* spell is replaced with another spell (caster does not need to know or prepare), determined randomly
*14-15:*spell is replaced with another spell 1d4 caster levels lower(caster does not need to know or prepare), determined randomly
*16-17:*spell is replaced with another spell 1d4 caster levels higher (caster does not need to know or prepare), determined randomly
*18-19:* spell fails
*20:* reroll, ignore first roll
[/sblock]
5) Those that are skilled in Oneiromancy (magic of dreams) are capable of shaping the dreamstuff that all of the demiplanes are made out of. they have to make a check with one of their mental stats (Int, Wis, Cha) to see if they are capable of creating what is wanted. Something up to the size of a large sized creature, if they are in their own dreamscape therer is no size restriction.

I have never heard about the Wheel of Time series, please explain it and I will se what can be done with it.

I believe that Duretep would not be hampered at all by anything mentioned here, sort of the trade of of not being able to enter other gods realms unless invited.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 18, 2010)

Arcane Archer sounds nice but there are several flaws:

It's only 10 class levels.

Enhance Arrow is useless unless i drop the enchantment bonus on the Suncaster for other mods. But this would mean i won't be able to harm other deities until AA level 7.

Seeker arrow is nearly useless as it's only one arrow and thus can't make use of my 5 attacks per round. It's also 1/day. 

Imbue arrow is fun with Sunburst at will, but it's not an attack, just uses the bow's range.

Phase arrow is essentially a brilliant energy arrow 1/day.

Hail of arrows is useless when compared with Divine Archery.

Arrow of death is extremely useless, DC 20 Fort save 1/day with 1 day prep time in a God game? No thanks.

Battle Sorcerer still sounds better, at least i can use the limited spells the class has, and still get medium BAB. I'm also considering getting Fast Healing 5 to be able to opt for Divine Fast Healing much earlier than CON 29. How were we handling Ability Score increases? DR = 1 to each score?


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## Rathan (Mar 18, 2010)

Ok HM... what I've TRIED to do is add Lavaria personal character post in the RG to my sig so you can easily access her. I've also taken the liberty to break her character build into a number of sblocks to make it easier to view and scroll through! Hope it helps!

- Rathan


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## GlassEye (Mar 18, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Are characters double checked?? I stopped at VV's but will try today to finish one or two more.
> 
> And Combat Blocks: Diffently a must for this LOL  and mybe in different sblocks like ML's character sheets. One sblock for stats and one for spells and one for special abilities. Think on it.




My pc has been finished a while but I don't think anyone else has looked it over.  I can't imagine it's error free but I'm too close to it, I can't see them.  I was supposed to check Torath but he's not finished yet.  Theroc, at some point you're just going to have to decide and do regardless of your reservations.  I went back and forth on abilities and all that myself, so I know it isn't easy.

My character is already in statblock format.  If you mean something different or want something different let us know.  Personally, I'd rather not have huge statblocks cluttering up the IC thread.  I'd be willing to post a link in my sig like Rathan has done.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 18, 2010)

GE i was supposed to check Ubariya right? I'll do it asap! I also need to add my second class. Will be going with Battle Sorcerer as long as HM confirms we will be getting armours at some point.


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## GlassEye (Mar 18, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> GE i was supposed to check Ubariya right? I'll do it asap! I also need to add my second class. Will be going with Battle Sorcerer as long as HM confirms we will be getting armours at some point.




At this point, I don't know but I would certainly appreciate a clear eye taking a look!


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## HolyMan (Mar 19, 2010)

To late tonight to answer all questions (save the one below) but this thread gets 90% of my attention tommorrow while I'm at the coffee shop.

@ML yes armor will be on the way just need to figure out how I want to handle it.

HM


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## Theroc (Mar 19, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Since when is true strike unimportant but maybe you are right.
> 
> Have I read your background I can't remember it if I have. But let me see if I have this correct. In your other realm you progressed beyond mortal status and entered the realm of godhood. Since you could starts out looking like a dragon your character could be one in reality, just need to spend trait points to get some of the abilities, Flight, Dragon Breath, ??? hmm really that is it to make you dragon like to start you would look like a dragon, and fly and have a breath weapon.
> 
> ...




Domain spells are divine, not arcane.  Sorceror is Arcane, and Dragon Disciple was built to work with a Sorceror.  So DD doesn't work with Divine magic.

For traits and the like, Torath is dragon-like... and I think I plan to get the shapechange divine abilities if I can manage to qualify for them, since I don't see too many SDA's I'll be needing.

For Torath's progress, part of his rise to power were obscure rituals to make him more like Dragons.  So, he was slowly turning himself into a dragon until he crested Mortality in that other plane, and was then banished via a similar ritual.  (These rituals are not castable D&D spells, but are plot-based, like Lavaria's)


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## Theroc (Mar 19, 2010)

Oh, and I think I am settled on Torath's traits and ability scores unless I come across something to change it.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 19, 2010)

My sheet isn't totally completed because I have to put his new blade stats in there, after that i think I am good to go.

If someone could go over it it woud be much abliged beacuse I'm kind of known for not having perfect sheets


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## GlassEye (Mar 20, 2010)

HM, it's pretty clear to me that either no one knows what to do at this point or they aren't interested in talking about something we have no information about.  Either way we need a DM post; one that gives us something to act upon rather than one that pushes for more talk.  Trust me, when we need to talk we can manage it without prompting.

Secondly, the pace of this game over the last two weeks has been terribly slow.  I find it incredibly frustrating because I am so psyched over this game.  Frankly, I'm not interested in continuing the game at this pace.  I'm willing to give it a little more time but if we can't pick things up a little more then I will be withdrawing from the game.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 20, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> HM, it's pretty clear to me that either no one knows what to do at this point or they aren't interested in talking about something we have no information about. Either way we need a DM post; one that gives us something to act upon rather than one that pushes for more talk. Trust me, when we need to talk we can manage it without prompting.
> 
> Secondly, the pace of this game over the last two weeks has been terribly slow. I find it incredibly frustrating because I am so psyched over this game. Frankly, I'm not interested in continuing the game at this pace. I'm willing to give it a little more time but if we can't pick things up a little more then I will be withdrawing from the game.





I have to agree with you on this point because I know I'm the sort of person that needs all of the info on the table before I go into any situation, this one being so large that I will defintely be patient in addressing it. The nature of the slow down could be due to the character sheets of everyone not being finished (me included) causing HM to not want to move forward.

The fact is I am not moving beacuse I was intending to distract his mind in his dream demi-plane while you guys on the outside do thte deed, without information on the how to or what effect that is going to do Duretep is grounded.


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## Theroc (Mar 20, 2010)

If everyone needs to continue and Torath's sheet is still incomplete, I'd consent to Holyman have the giant thing do some sort of banishing or something to Torath that effectively removes him from that portion while I complete his character sheet.

I do apologize for all the delay on my sheet.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 20, 2010)

Theroc said:


> If everyone needs to continue and Torath's sheet is still incomplete, I'd consent to Holyman have the giant thing do some sort of banishing or something to Torath that effectively removes him from that portion while I complete his character sheet.
> 
> I do apologize for all the delay on my sheet.





I don't think there is any need to do that, you should be able to help us in someway. If you want you can come into the realm of dreams with Duretep, I'm sure he can find something to do with you.


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## HolyMan (Mar 21, 2010)

Just trying to stall for character sheet finishing time. I thought I had it posted pretty clear that you were a few miles from the glacier and what the terrian looked like between where you are and where you are going.

I was waiting (still am) for a post from everyone to give them a stat block that they can use to keep track of effects. There is alot to keep track of besides HP and AC. 

Things in stat blocks should be things that get used up along with HP/AC and saves and any spells you cast on yourself or like ML's arrows.

So just wanted a quick post from everyone covering them. Sorry it's been slow I have been here everyday waiting too.

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 21, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Just trying to stall for character sheet finishing time. I thought I had it posted pretty clear that you were a few miles from the glacier and what the terrian looked like between where you are and where you are going.
> 
> I was waiting (still am) for a post from everyone to give them a stat block that they can use to keep track of effects. There is alot to keep track of besides HP and AC.
> 
> ...




Ok, so we need to finish our characters.  Fair enough.  It's nice to know what we're waiting on, though.  (Mine's finished but I did find two errors just tonight...)

I'll edit in a stat block in the IC thread in my last (or next) post.


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## Rathan (Mar 21, 2010)

I've added a baseline Stat Black to Lavaria's first combat post in the IC thread.... She has no ongoing conditional spells at the moment so I didn't list a space yet for such buffs.

If anyone else thinks of a better format or something to add... let me know and I'll change it...


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 21, 2010)

Added my second class, saving throws, skills and spells. Posted in the IC with a statblock. How many actions do we get? I can buff the party some with some of my domain spells.

[sblock=Rathan]I know that you fancy the word _softly_, I remember i brought it up in Jemal's academy game where your character _uttered softly_ every time he spoke. Lavara also seems to be uttering softly a lot, but how am i to imagine her shaking her head softly or squinting her eyes softly? Not picking a fight, just wandering what you meant by softly (unless softly can be used to describe such actions which i wasn't sure it can)[/sblock]


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## Theroc (Mar 21, 2010)

<.< I'll try to get more of Torath's sheet worked out ASAP.

As I said, if am taking too long, I would not be opposed to something taking Torath out of the action so the others do not become too bored.


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## Theroc (Mar 21, 2010)

Question: Does my bonus fighter feat allow an epic fighter feat to be selected?  I'm kindof fuzzy on how that works.


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 21, 2010)

I am trying to get my post in asap. me and my computer ahve been having issues in the area of cooperation but do believe they have been worked out and I will have that post in.

Does inspire courage work on gods because it is a mind-effecting ability?


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 21, 2010)

Yes, we are CLVL 20+, therefore if you qualify for the feat you can take it. Just make sure it's not terribly redundant when compared with a Salient ability. For example the Fast Healing epic feat versus Divine Fast Healing.

FM inspire courage will work only after one gets Divine Bard SDA (which has 20 Bard levels as a prerequisite).


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 21, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Yes, we are CLVL 20+, therefore if you qualify for the feat you can take it. Just make sure it's not terribly redundant when compared with a Salient ability. For example the Fast Healing epic feat versus Divine Fast Healing.
> 
> FM inspire courage will work only after one gets Divine Bard SDA (which has 20 Bard levels as a prerequisite).




So after 20 levels of bard it will work? So does that mean character level or class level?


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## Voda Vosa (Mar 21, 2010)

Oh, added the second class as well.


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## GlassEye (Mar 21, 2010)

Frozen Messiah said:


> So after 20 levels of bard it will work? So does that mean character level or class level?




That would be class levels in bard for the Divine Bard SDA.


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 22, 2010)

GE is correct. It will still affect others that are not immune to mind-affecting stuff though (like our summons). FM why did you go with Bard for Duretep? To utilize the natural high CHA for deities i'd assume but I'm curious as to the RP aspect of it. You know, Heliasillyel being first and foremost a dancing/singing/playing Bard, I'm wandering what kind of Bard the Lost Prophet will be.

The verses of prophesies? Or the mad ramblings of doomsayers?


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2010)

Looking over characters

Duretep:
* Zidanrad, The Certain total cost = 121,808gp nice little weapon but looks like you are not prof. with it
* Bonus magical item  = Wand of Magic Missiles (9th lvl) fully charged
* why the [1] after INT? looks like you got to 16 by lvl increases should have one more point to spend
* You have listed Level: 21 but that is untrue your ECL = 22 you Character lvl is 2 and xp would be 1,000 
* HP = max at every lvl no need to roll and need a double check of your numbers (you have a +10 in there I don't know what from)
* 60' ground speed?? how did you get that?
* DMG Red: should be 35/+4
* CHA modifier not added to saves
* You have listed 253 as Skill points and have spent 284 did the two lvls give you +31 skill points I know nothing of the wilder class
* You upped your BAB by 5 costing you one feat, but you have 7 listed did you get one from a class lvl up? sorry maybe I'm not the guy to check your sheet LOL
* That's all I have at the moment FM how about a link to wilder in your character post in the RG plz

Working on others one character at a time they give me a headache 


HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 22, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Looking over characters
> 
> Duretep:
> * Zidanrad, The Certain total cost = 121,808gp nice little weapon but looks like you are not prof. with it
> ...




In rebutle:
*I believe that we said that we have prof with our favored weapons and I asked if the extra gold could be put towards making Duretep never fail on ego checks and everyone else fail ego checks with Zidanrad
*It is stated in RG that base land speed is 60'
*I think the skill problem is when I was trying to figure out which skill was which I forgot to bring one down, the two classes bring up my skills by 14 points so I should be at 244 at this point meaning that I am actually 9 points off, they will be changed quickly
*I don't believe I didn't change the BAB because in RG it says 25/20/15/10
*The +10 in Hp is because of psionic body
*The wilder class is in the SRD but I will put a link in RG anyways

Thanks for checking him out, I understand how statblocks of this size can be a bother to check out for everyone.


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2010)

In rebutle: I will rebutt your rebuttle 

*I believe that we said that we have prof with our favored weapons and I asked if the extra gold could be put towards making Duretep never fail on ego checks and everyone else fail ego checks with Zidanrad Sorry, I remeber you asking about that don't remeber if I posted a go ahead (which I should have)

*It is stated in RG that base land speed is 60'  Hey, I just copied pasted those character gene rules.

*I think the skill problem is when I was trying to figure out which skill was which I forgot to bring one down, the two classes bring up my skills by 14 points so I should be at 244 at this point meaning that I am actually 9 points off, they will be changed quickly Awesome so your saying I have something right? Right?

*I don't believe I didn't change the BAB because in RG it says 25/20/15/10 Starting BAB is 20 (+1 per HD) My little home rule let's you get a +5 added to that for the cost of a feat. What your seeing is the example that when you do use this rule you do not get five attacks(as would be normal).

*The +10 in Hp is because of psionic body Don't know what that does 

*The wilder class is in the SRD but I will put a link in RG anyways thanks just makes it easier if a wilder question comes up.

Thanks for checking him out, I understand how statblocks of this size can be a bother to check out for everyone. Oh it is a bother  but needs doing so oh well 


Oh what about the INT part where you spent a special trait point and I guess I will need to take back the wand sorry wanted you to have a chance to use that high Use Magic Device skill. 

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 22, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> In rebutle: I will rebutt your rebuttle
> 
> *I believe that we said that we have prof with our favored weapons and I asked if the extra gold could be put towards making Duretep never fail on ego checks and everyone else fail ego checks with Zidanrad Sorry, I remeber you asking about that don't remeber if I posted a go ahead (which I should have)
> 
> ...




My rebuttle to you rebutting my rebuttle: 

*Psionic body gives you 2hp for every psionic feat you have (I have 5 therefore +10)

*The BAB probelm will be fixed quickly and I have seen where I did go wrong

*your right about the skills not being the right amount but not tha amount

Don't worry about the Use Magic Device skill, there will always be a need for that skill and when the time comes I will have it handy, I built Duretep like a swiss army knife if he can't do something he at least has the knowledge on the matter to not be totally ineffective.


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## HolyMan (Mar 22, 2010)

Still not going to answer the INT question Hmm... very interesting will I think we have another character done and tommorrow I will hit another

So who would like me to butt you so you can rebuttle me LOL 

Sorry late and I am off to bed work in the morning.

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 23, 2010)

HM, Ubariya has the domain spell Summon Monster IX.  She's really neither fiendish nor celestial and summoning those monsters with her summon spell seems thematically inappropriate.  Would you be willing to allow me to substitute either the Shadow template (Manual of the Planes) or the Dark template (Tome of Magic) for the fiendish/celestial template if I provide them to you and do all the template application myself?

If you are open to it, there are also a couple of other templates that might be appropriate for various members of our group that I would be willing to share with you.  (Nightmare Creature and Lunatic Creature from Advanced Bestiary, specifically).


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## HolyMan (Mar 23, 2010)

Sounds good to me I hardly ever use monster summoning for that very reason, they just don't fit my character. So anything you come up with will be alright as I have encounters made to face a god so a summoned whatever shouldn't be to much trouble.

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 24, 2010)

Duretep is at the Giant's dream demiplane, I don't know if everything is set up for the encounter at this point and how strong he is in his dreaming form, because he maybe big and scary on the outside but he may have no imagination what-so-ever meaning that he would not have a powerful aspect. 

I believe that this should not actually be combat but more something like a test of will's, there is a great example in The Sword in the Stone where there is a magic duel in the form of one of the opponents will turn into something and the other has to counter it by changing themselves. Since this is in dreams the lack of shapechaing spells means little to the nture of the challenge.

Just ideas though


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## HolyMan (Mar 24, 2010)

Good ideal have been working on something similar. Like a test of wills taking the form of the testers. It all has to do with the melding of the two minds.

Maybe that is why Duretep is the master of the dream? 

Update tonight giving Theroc a little more time but will move forward.

HM


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## GlassEye (Mar 24, 2010)

I've begun a post in the RG for Ubariya's summons.  I've posted the Shadow template there.  It didn't have a level adjustment in the text so I would like it if you reviewed it and let me know if you think it is equivalent in power to the fiendish template.  If it isn't I'll switch it out with the Dark template which specifically says it is LA+1.  I'll hold off on applying the template until I find out one way or the other.  Thanks.


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## HolyMan (Mar 24, 2010)

It looks to me that the two templates are similar enough. So go ahead and add your creatures to the RG (great ideal by the way). Anyone else waht to put some critters there for easier summoning go right ahead.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Mar 25, 2010)

HM since Heliasillyel can cast Endure Elements at will, she will do so at the first hint at cold. So maybe the Fort saves will be useless? Also, are we keeping track of rounds already? As i said in the sblock, sooner or later she will summon enough Rocs to make a difference, these things have as much HP as the rest of us and since they are Celestial they can skewer evil things at around level 22 quite well.


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## Theroc (Mar 25, 2010)

Okay, I'm not done yet on Torath, but I figure people can start checking what I do have, if they'd like.

Torath's AC's and stuff are worked out, as are his trait points.
His feats(save epic ones) are also worked out, as is his HP.  Initiative and the like are probably not yet accurate, and I haven't touched skills yet


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## HolyMan (Mar 26, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> HM since Heliasillyel can cast Endure Elements at will, she will do so at the first hint at cold. So maybe the Fort saves will be useless? Also, are we keeping track of rounds already? As i said in the sblock, sooner or later she will summon enough Rocs to make a difference, these things have as much HP as the rest of us and since they are Celestial they can skewer evil things at around level 22 quite well.




Not counting rounds just make note you will cast it and it's max rounds along with any other power ups. I'll work out something when we do start counting rounds.

Do me a favor and put your Roc's in the RG when you find the time. And thanks for the tip.

HM

@Theroc: do you have Fort done and canmake the saves for me thanks.


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## GlassEye (Mar 30, 2010)

What are we waiting on?


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## Frozen Messiah (Mar 30, 2010)

I did my post and I am waiting on reaction


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## Theroc (Apr 1, 2010)

If I did it correctly, Torath has a +28 Fortitude modifier.

I'm a bit overwhelmed at the moment, so I won't be too active.  To speed things, I can step out if needed and return when I have more time to devote to this.  I had no idea it would have turned out as complicated as it did.

Apologies to those who had to wait.  I'll keep working on Torath as I find time, but I'd rather find a way to temporarily set things so that no one need wait on me.


----------



## GlassEye (Apr 6, 2010)

So right now we need Voda's action for tOatM and his creatures for the first round.  Then we'll get the frost worm if it's still alive.  Finally, Ubariya will get to act if there is even a need for it.

Although it's been four days since your combat post, HM.  If Voda doesn't post today I would recommend moving on.  In fact, I would personally put a two day wait limit on combat wait time before making a general post for that pc so we aren't all sitting around waiting.


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## Shayuri (Apr 6, 2010)

Hey guys...didn't see this before, but I thought I'd see if you were still accepting noobs.

Noobs to the game, I mean, not the system.

Thinking about a happy sneaky trickster god, or perhaps a mysterious god of secrets and mystery...

Or are ya full up?


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## HolyMan (Apr 7, 2010)

No not full, think we could sneak you in. 

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 7, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Hey guys...didn't see this before, but I thought I'd see if you were still accepting noobs.
> 
> Noobs to the game, I mean, not the system.
> 
> ...




Alright, since you have been given the ok time to give heap loads of advice that you probably won't listen to...

I believe that I sort of have the whole secretive and mysterious part of the group down, unless you want to take a more arcane approach to your god. I believe that the trickster god would be welcomed much more because he will most likely be a little bit more jovial and endearing to everyone in the group, something that would be hnice to have. You could be the glue that holds us together.

just my 2 cents on the matter


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## Shayuri (Apr 7, 2010)

That works, Messiah. Looking over the roster, I was leaning that way myself, in fact. Y'all are a sort of dour, serious bunch. 

I'm thinking perhaps a goddess associated with the moon...perhaps also associated with some of the lighterhearted fey, like pixies. Patron race would be either gnomes or halflings...probably gnomes.

I'll get some more stuff up soon.


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 7, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> I'm thinking perhaps a goddess associated with the moon...perhaps also associated with some of the lighterhearted fey, like pixies. Patron race would be either gnomes or halflings...probably gnomes.
> 
> I'll get some more stuff up soon.




careful with that moon concept because Glasseye's god has given up an eye to be the moon. You could still have sway over the night, you could focus on the mysterious/romantisied elements of night. Your fey would dance among the stars... why don't you be the patron of the stars. With that you could be the one who creates constilations and the such and there is the possibility of having clothing that mimics the night sky.

Just an idea though...


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## Shayuri (Apr 7, 2010)

Aww...oh well. The moon thing wasn't necessary. I just liked the mythology of this shapeshifting god being associated with the constantly changing moon.

No biggy though.


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## GlassEye (Apr 7, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Aww...oh well. The moon thing wasn't necessary. I just liked the mythology of this shapeshifting god being associated with the constantly changing moon.
> 
> No biggy though.




I don't think it's impossible to work out; you just have to accept the mythology that we've already built for the moon.  A little background for you: Heliasillyel, the Sun goddess, and Ubariya, the goddess of death, made a pact of sorts.  To seal the pact they exchanged gifts.  Heliasillyel gave shadows to Ubariya so that she would have some influence in the day; and Ubariya gave the moon to Heliasillyel for the same reason.  The moon was formed when Heliasillyel let the full strength of her radiance shine.  It blinded Ubariya in one eye (the others were closed).  Ubariya then cut out the eye and gave it to Heliasillyel to fasten in the night sky as the moon.  When she cut out the eye Ubariya left the eyelid attached so she could close it whenever she did something that she didn't want Heliasillyel to see (thus, the phases of the moon).

That's all that's gone on before about the moon so far.  Now if it works for you, your pc could be the offspring of Heliasillyel and Ubariya.  Born from the moon itself, the eye of Ubariya and Helisillyel's power of light, you could have aspects of both goddesses.  And since they are pretty much opposites it's a good explanation for your pc's changeable nature.  Her fey could favor one or the other giving a good explanation for the two courts of the fey.

Not sure if you care to run with this or not but there it is.


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## Shayuri (Apr 7, 2010)

That...is an awesome idea!

Bless you!

I like how it encompasses this god's two conflicting natures...being both light and shadow...as well as her contradictory nature, as she is shadow in light, and light in darkness...always taking on the opposite of the dominant paradigm, regardless of which it is.

The eternal rebel...the counterculture...sort of a teenage goddess, always doing the opposite of what authority wants...

Heee!

Beautiful. Thank you!


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 7, 2010)

Since you are going to be lord/lady of the fey, I give you the option of having the realm of the fey be a part of the dreaming that my god rules over. This part of the dreaming will be seperate from the rest of the dreaming, so as to not corrupt it with anything. If the realm of the fey lies in the realm of dreams than you will have the protection of Duretep but he will also reserve the right to interfere with actions that are taking place in the realm of the fey that may ripple out to effect thew rest of te dreaming, he will most likely have his advisor, Udaelo, The Knower, to watch over the realm and report back to him.

I am giving this option because I have always felt that the fey are creatures of dreams and should be allowed within them.


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## Shayuri (Apr 7, 2010)

Hmm...I think I'd prefer to run with a more Faerie/Otherworld thing...though I could definitely see how the two worlds could have some overlap. A god of dreams wouldn't have direct power, but that shifting territory that the two worlds shared would be one that they could both take interest in...


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 8, 2010)

Welcome, Shayuri! When you left my VOTD concept i thought you and I would never get a chance to be in the same game 

Heliasillyel is a sun deity but also, Goddess of the Elves (Sun Elves in particular), patron of Bards - song, dance and beauty are her nature just as well as light and warmth. Passion, charm and new beginnings are yet other things she rules over. She is very positive and quick to forget a grudge, and quite chaotic. 

Since both Ubaryia and Heliasillyel are female, their offspring could be very severe in terms of feminine characteristics - very, very moody, ruled over by emotion, or very conniving and hating of other females, or very flirtatious and manipulative, or very motherly and kind.. OR all of these 

So fey coming as an offspring of an Elven Goddess sounds about right. A "teenage rebel" type Goddess as the offspring of two female Deities sounds right as well.

Me and Glass Eye can RP you in in a very mythological way, should you grant us this freedom


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## Shayuri (Apr 8, 2010)

How do you mean? Springing full grown from a hacked off limb or head? 

I was thinking this god might be more...emergent. Perhaps an unexpected consequence of this pact they made. An accident, of sorts.

That said, if they -wanted- to create a new god, that's cool too. This isn't integral to the concept or anything.


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## GlassEye (Apr 8, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> I was thinking this god might be more...emergent. Perhaps an unexpected consequence of this pact they made. An accident, of sorts.




This is what I was expecting.  But I can work with whatever you guys want to come up with: hands-off so you can run with things in your own way, Shayuri, or working with Myth to give you a entrance scene.  Either way works for me although I favor letting Shayuri run with it and seeing how things develop.

Now if we could only get HM to advance the combat so we can get to a place where we can do the RP that has previously been so awesome in this game.


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## Shayuri (Apr 9, 2010)

Work in progress. I'm putting this up so I can tinker with it online.

Comments are welcome, but bear in mind this isn't the final form. In particular, I'm dubious about the SLA's. 

[sblock=WIP]Goddess of Moonlight and Shadow
20 HD Outsider
Shadowdancer 2

Str 8 (2)
Dex 26 (6) +2
Con 14 (6)
Int 16 (2)
Wis 16 (3) +1
Cha 26 (16) +2

HP: 220/220
AC: 40 (11 + 8 Dex + 13 natural +8 deflection)
BAB: +22
Initiative: +8
Move: Ground 60', Flight 120' (good)

Fort +31
Ref +37
Will +32

Racial Traits
Outsider type
Special Traits 18/20
- Small Size (1 trait)
- Fast Healing 5 (1 trait)
- Flight 120' Good (1 trait)
- +8 Dex (4 traits)
- +6 Int (3 traits)
- +4 Wis (2 traits)
- +6 Cha (3 traits)
- SU Ability - Greater Invisibility (as Pixie) (1 trait)
- SU Ability - Change Shape (as Doppelganger) (1 trait)
- SLA - Bestow Curse at will (1 trait)
- SLA - Greater Heroism 3/day (1 trait)
- SLA - Irresistable Dance 1/day (1 trait)

Class Traits
Hide in Plain Sight (shadows)
Darkvision
Evasion
Uncanny Dodge

Skills 184+69 = 253+18
Bluff +33 (25 ranks + 8 Cha)
Disguise +43 (25 ranks + 8 Cha + 10 circumstance)
Hide +37 (25 ranks + 8 Dex + 4 size)

Concentration +17 (15 ranks + 2 Con)
Disable Device +23 (20 ranks + 3 Int)
Listen +28 (25 ranks + 3 Wis)
Move Silently +33 (25 ranks + 8 Dex)
Open Lock +28 (20 ranks + 8 Dex)
Perform (Dance) +18 (10 ranks + 8 Cha)
Search +23 (20 ranks + 3 Int)
Sense Motive +28 (25 ranks + 3 wis)
Spot +28 (25 ranks + 3 Wis)
Tumble +19 (11 ranks + 8 Dex)

Feats
1 Weapon Finesse
3 Dodge
6 Mobility
9 Combat Reflexes
12 Flyby Attack
15 Spring Attack
18 Bounding Assault
21 Blinding Speed

Divine Rank 0
Divine AC Bonus 0
Natural Armor Bonus 13 
Divine Attack Bonus 0
Divine Save Bonus 0
Divine Check Bonus 0
Immune to transmutations, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind affecting effects.
Damage Reduction 35/ +4
Fire Resistance 20
Spell Resistance 32
Portfolio: Luck, Rebellion, Deception

Domains (Caster level 10, DC 18+lvl)
Trickery - Bluff, Disguise, Hide are class skills
- Disguise Self
- Invisibility
- Nondetection
- Confusion
- False Vision
- Mislead
- Screen
- Polymorph Any Object
- Time Stop

Luck - 1 reroll/day
- Entropic Shield
- Aid
- Protection from Energy
- Freedom of Movement
- Break Enchantment
- Mislead
- Spell Turning
- Moment of Prescience
- Miracle

Moon - Turn/Destroy Lycanthropes
- Faerie Fire
- Moonbeam
- Moon Blade
- Fear
- Moon Path
- Permanent Illusion
- Insanity
- Animal Shapes
- Moonfire

Favored Weapon 
Sliverslash - Small Anarchic, Wounding Rapier +4, 128,320[/sblock]


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 9, 2010)

Add a second class (you are entitled to one). Also, I'm not sure how Luck and Trickery fit in with your deity's themes. If you have access to the Spell Compendium you should take a look at some of the extra domains there, I'm sure there will be more adequate choices.


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## Shayuri (Apr 9, 2010)

Hee hee

Luck and Trickery were/are the original concept of the deity, actually. The moon thing came afterwards, as an adjunct to the trickery part. A goddess of many faces, many 'phases' as it were...

Luck and trickery might make more sense if you keep the 'queen of the fey' theme in mind. Fortune and deception are very much in theme for fey. 

Luck in particular I see as a rebellion against fate, the introduction of random chance into the written pages of destiny. A little Heisenberg to go with your Calvinism, as it were. 

As for classes, we only have 2 levels, and I want -at least- 2 levels in Shadowdancer. I will probably want more, since that class really gives her the "powers of shadow" that I couldn't spare a Domain to simulate. The Moon domain gives her the moon powers...but she's also a goddess of shadows, and that's what the class gives her.

I'll be branching her out later into Rogue, most likely. Possibly with some Sorceror and Arcane Trickster, later on. We shall see...


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## Rathan (Apr 10, 2010)

Holy crap HM did we really hand that worm it's ass in the first round?.... How? LOL


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## GlassEye (Apr 10, 2010)

I think it was more like _half_ a round.


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## HolyMan (Apr 10, 2010)

It was all of 3.3 seconds LOL 

It had no DR or spell resistance I guess I'm going to have to watch for that. I mean doing over 400 points of damage in one round yikes! And here I was worried a 29HD Frost Worm would be to challenging.

@Shayuri for class lvls we are doing modified gestalt rules everyone takes two classes at lvl 1 each and treats it as multiclassing and then when I give XP you gain in each multiclassing again.

HM


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## Shayuri (Apr 10, 2010)

Ahh, I see...so we really only have 21 hit dice then, not 22?

I'm not sure what you mean by "treats it as multiclassing." 

Unless you mean it works like that 'multiclassing at 1st level' option, where you take two "half classes" at 1st level...then fill in the missing abilities at 2nd level.


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## GlassEye (Apr 10, 2010)

No, we have 22 hit dice.  The difference is when HM decides we go up a level we actually go up two levels.  My character is cleric 1 / rogue 1; when she goes up a level she'll be cleric 2 / rogue 2.  Small difference, yes, but allows for quicker advancement.


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## Shayuri (Apr 10, 2010)

Okay...so really it's not like gestalt at all. It's more like we have 2 separate levels, and will jump up 2 levels at a time.

Is that more or less accurate?


----------



## HolyMan (Apr 11, 2010)

very accurate, when your character hits 1,000xp you gain a lvl in each class

Whose to say this isn't how gods advance I mean they all have at least two lvls close to each other, and not enough story in their histories to account for be 40lvl characters. 

HM


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## Shayuri (Apr 11, 2010)

I'm fine with it...just making sure I understand. 

Making changes to my sheet now...I'll go Shadowdancer/Warlock, methinks...


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## Voda Vosa (Apr 11, 2010)

Warlock is a no I'm affraid. You'll have to limit yourself to whats in the srd


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 11, 2010)

Lol we trampled that thing. HM, was it of Evil alignment? If so, i guess those Rocs would have been able to take it down in two rounds by themselves  See? As we are still low in DR, these summons make quite a difference. That is not to say, we could have not taken it by ourselves, but they definitely help.


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## Shayuri (Apr 11, 2010)

SRD only?!

Argh!

Okay...I can work with that...hee...

Hm.

What about the Simple Variant Druid from Unearthed Arcana? It's in the SRD. I could re-envision my character as a sort of animal/hunting goddess. Give her an Artemis/Diana tilt. 

Though that's kind of a lot of hats to wear. I think I need to slim this down a bit.

Question! Does the "SRD Only" rule also apply to domains, feats, spell choices and magic item properties?


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## HolyMan (Apr 12, 2010)

Was that a Hm as in hmmm... or and HM as in me??


I don't believe anyone else took a non-core/srd feat or ability. But domains were open do to the variety, so I know all domains are open.

Born of the sun and the moon a feral goddess of the hunt. And some preadotars hunt at night you could incorprate your shadowy side.

So ShadowDancer/Druid Avenger??

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 12, 2010)

why not go shadowdancer/paladin of freedom, you get the light and dark side and an emphasis towards a chaotic nature which is very much like the fey.


----------



## Shayuri (Apr 12, 2010)

I considered Paladin of Freedom, but the alignment code just doesn't work for me.

And HM, not the Avenger Druid. It's the same page though. Look at the very bottom, where it says Simple Variant.


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## Shayuri (Apr 12, 2010)

Okay, the druid build is looking pretty good.

At this point I'm thinking I'll add the Animal Domain later on...is it possible to gain more domains than 3? I mean, as we grow...not necessarily at 1st level. 

And I like the tie-in with lycanthropes and the Moon domain now. Perhaps this god is responsible for lycanthropes...they seem thematically related. I was thinking they were an early attempt of hers to create a mortal people of her own, that went rather tragically awry. Her first created "species" was, of course, the fey...but they don't 'count' for a number of reasons. 

Anyway, I'll post some stuff soonish.


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 12, 2010)

Divine Abilities And Feats :: d20srd.org


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## Shayuri (Apr 13, 2010)

Epithets: *Silhouette, The Silver Lady, Goddess of Moonlight & Shadow, Lady of Masks*
Alignment: *Chaotic Neutral (Good?)*
[sblock=Realm]*Faerie, The Otherworld, The Twilight Lands*
In some ways Faerie is a 'reflection' of the 'real' world, and it shares many similar geographical features, though often embellished or distorted in some way. The plane is highly mutable though, and is constantly in a state of mild flux. This rarely affects large landscape features like lakes and mountains, but smaller features...or aspects of larger ones...will frequently move about when no one's looking, or change in tangible ways. Faerie is a place constantly suspended in phases of transition. It is a place of eternal "in-betweenness." Its sun is always at the horizon, never rising nor setting, giving it the name 'Twilight Lands.' It is never wholly summer, winter, autumn nor spring, but rather all four exist at once, in separate 'kingdoms.' It overlaps the real world in places like crossroads, where one is between one's origin and one's destination. The lack of day and night contributes to a sense of timelessness, which makes it very easy for one to lose track of how long one has been there. No one and nothing ages while in Faerie, but the time catches up with anyone returning to the mortal world.

The Otherworld is, to some extent, less -real- than the mortal world. Most artifacts from Faerie will cease to exist, or crumble to dust, when brought outside that realm. Fey beings who leave Faerie must 'anchor' themselves to something real...a landscape feature, or tree, or they will lose their immortality. Mortal creatures who eat fey food will find themselves starving to death upon leaving. In addition, a mortal who stays long enough in Faerie, eating their food, breathing their air, will start to slowly -become- fey as the substance of their bodies is replaced. 

Faerie has borders with several other planes. It is most closely aligned with the mortal realm, but shares borders with the dreamworld as well. It's said that if one could fly to the sun, on the other side one would find the heavens of Solarion??. Meanwhile, there are abysses and chasms in the caverns beneath the surface that, should one fall in, one would fall all the way into the spider-filled depths of Blahdyblah. As a rule, it is not hard to stumble into Faerie, should the conditions be right. Getting out again can be trickier.[/sblock]
[sblock=Denizens]Faerie is populated by beings that share their world's name: the faerie, or fae for short. They come in a bewildering array of sizes and shapes, though most are at least nominally humanoid in form. Almost all of them are gifted with magical abilities, though these are more often mischievous in nature than outright dangerous. Fae are ageless, dying only through violence or misadventure, though it's unusual that they have long-minded viewpoints or long term, byzantine plots. Most fae live their eternities one day at a time, filling each with whatever pleases it the most...be it frolicking and making merry, or horrific acts of violence.

Fae often have powerful ties to natural features in their vicinity. This is especially true of dryads and nymphs. Even more free-roaming fae such as pixies will sometimes fixate on a household or individual person, either bedeviling them or trying to aid them...though sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

Few fae dally long outside of Faerie, with the occasional exception of dryads and nymphs who become attached to trees or lakes in the mortal realm. One other big exception are the gnomes, who were originally fey but struck out into the mortal world en masse to escape persecution by fey goblins. There they became mortal, but still retain some of their carefree mindset and magical gifts.[/sblock]

[sblock=Stats]20 HD Outsider
Shadowdancer 1 / Simple Variant Druid 1

Str 8 (2)
Dex 26 (10) 
Con 14 (5) +1
Int 14 (2)
Wis 20 (6)
Cha 26 (10) +4

HP: 160+44+8+8 = 220
AC: 45 (10 + 1 size + 8 Dex + 13 natural +8 deflection +5 Wis)
BAB: +22
Initiative: +8
Move: Ground 50', Flight 100' (good)

Fort +20 + 2 con + 2 dr + 8 luck + 1 epic = 33
Ref +20 + 8 dex + 2 shd + 8 luck + 1 epic = 39
Will +20 + 5 wis + 2 dr + 8 luck + 1 epic = 36

Racial Traits
Outsider type
Special Traits 18/20
- Small Size (1 trait)
- Fast Healing 5 (1 trait)
- Flight 120' Good (1 trait)
- +8 Dex (4 traits)
- +4 Int (2 traits)
- +6 Wis (3 traits)
- +6 Cha (3 traits)
- SU Ability - Greater Invisibility (as Pixie) (1 trait)
- SU Ability - Alternate Form (as Phasm) (1 trait)
- SU Ability - Stunning Glance DC 28 (as Nymph) (1 trait)
- SLA - Mass Charm Monster 1/day DC 26 (1 trait)
- SLA - Transport Via Plants 3/day (1 trait)

Class Traits
Hide in Plain Sight (shadows)

AC Bonus (as monk)
Speed bonus (as monk)
Bonus feat: Tracking
Favored Enemy: Aberrations
Animal Companion (wolf)
Wild Empathy +9
Nature Sense

Skills 230+8+6 = 244
Bluff +30 (22 ranks + 8 Cha)
Disguise +38 (20 ranks + 8 Cha + 10 circumstance)
Hide +32 (20 ranks + 8 Dex + 4 size)

Concentration +17 (15 ranks + 2 Con)
Handle Animal +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Listen +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Move Silently +32 (24 ranks + 8 Dex)
Knowledge: Nature +20 (16 ranks + 2 Int + 2 class)
Perform (Dance) +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Search +25 (23 ranks + 2 Int)
Sense Motive +25 (20 ranks + 5 wis)
Spot +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Survival +30 (23 ranks +5 wis +2 class)

Feats
B Tracking
1 Dodge
3 Mobility
6 Combat Reflexes
9 Flyby Attack
12 Point Blank Shot
15 Precise Shot
18 Manyshot
21 Combat Archery

Divine Rank 0
Divine AC Bonus 0
Natural Armor Bonus 13 
Divine Attack Bonus 0
Divine Save Bonus 0
Divine Check Bonus 0
Immune to transmutations, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind affecting effects.
Damage Reduction 35/ +4
Fire Resistance 20
Spell Resistance 32
Portfolio: Fortune, Cunning, Trickery, Hunting, The Moon, Fey

Domains (Caster level 10, DC 18+lvl)
Trickery - Bluff, Disguise, Hide are class skills
- Disguise Self
- Invisibility
- Nondetection
- Confusion
- False Vision
- Mislead
- Screen
- Polymorph Any Object
- Time Stop

Luck - 1 reroll/day
- Entropic Shield
- Aid
- Protection from Energy
- Freedom of Movement
- Break Enchantment
- Mislead
- Spell Turning
- Moment of Prescience
- Miracle

Moon - Turn/Destroy Lycanthropes
- Faerie Fire
- Moonbeam
- Moon Blade
- Fear
- Moon Path
- Permanent Illusion
- Insanity
- Animal Shapes
- Moonfire

Spellcasting (Druid CL 1, DC 15+lvl)
Prepared:
0 - 3 
1 - 3 

Favored Weapon 
Slivershaft - Small Frost, Flaming, Seeking Longbow +5, 128,320[/sblock]


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## Rathan (Apr 13, 2010)

uuummm shay.... as much as I REALLY love the pixies greater invis. SU..... I seriously doubt HM will let it go for just one special trait point.. that's super powerful as you can still cast and attack with remaining invisible....

he might go for it but if it was me I'd make it at least worth 2 or 3 STP's....


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## HolyMan (Apr 13, 2010)

Just gave your character the glance over because I'm off to pay taxes (yuck) but Rathan is right regualr invisiblity would be 1 point but what the pixies have I think would be 3 points. Although you could weaken your trait by giving it a limitation. If it only worked at night or was regualr invisiblity during the day and greater at night. I might give that to you for 1 point.

Think on it I will give your character a full look over tonight as I see she is in the RG. 

HM


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## Shayuri (Apr 13, 2010)

*nods*

Just throwing it all up there for folks to take a look at...though the Pixie Invisibility hasn't changed since the first draft post I had up awhile back.

If it comes down to it, she can cast Mislead at will...which includes Greater Invisibility. So really the constant Greater Invis is kind of a wasted point from that perspective. I just liked the idea of her having powers from each of the major fae...pixie invis, nymph stun, dryad treewalking...she's kind of a prototypical uber-fey.

But if it's an issue, no biggy. I can just remove it and use Mislead whenever she needs Greater Invis.


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## HolyMan (Apr 14, 2010)

*red ink is comments and corrections (unless I'm wrong- which is possible) Go ahead and fix in the RG and let me know here and I will give her a final once over.*

*And think on your origin so I may bring you into the game.*

*HM*


*Silhouette, The Silver Lady, Goddess of Moonlight & Shadow, Lady of Masks*
Alignment: *Chaotic Neutral (Good?) sigh *
[sblock=Realm]*Faerie, The Otherworld, The Twilight Lands*
In some ways Faerie is a 'reflection' of the 'real' world, and it shares many similar geographical features, though often embellished or distorted in some way. The plane is highly mutable though, and is constantly in a state of mild flux. This rarely affects large landscape features like lakes and mountains, but smaller features...or aspects of larger ones...will frequently move about when no one's looking, or change in tangible ways. Faerie is a place constantly suspended in phases of transition. It is a place of eternal "in-betweenness." Its sun is always at the horizon, never rising nor setting, giving it the name 'Twilight Lands.' It is never wholly summer, winter, autumn nor spring, but rather all four exist at once, in separate 'kingdoms.' It overlaps the real world in places like crossroads, where one is between one's origin and one's destination. The lack of day and night contributes to a sense of timelessness, which makes it very easy for one to lose track of how long one has been there. No one and nothing ages while in Faerie, but the time catches up with anyone returning to the mortal world.

*I like this very much.*

The Otherworld is, to some extent, less -real- than the mortal world. Most artifacts from Faerie will cease to exist, or crumble to dust, when brought outside that realm. Fey beings who leave Faerie must 'anchor' themselves to something real...a landscape feature, or tree, or they will lose their immortality. Mortal creatures who eat fey food will find themselves starving to death upon leaving. In addition, a mortal who stays long enough in Faerie, eating their food, breathing their air, will start to slowly -become- fey as the substance of their bodies is replaced. 

Faerie has borders with several other planes. It is most closely aligned with the mortal realm, but shares borders with the dreamworld as well. It's said that if one could fly to the sun, on the other side one would find the heavens of Solarion??. Meanwhile, there are abysses and chasms in the caverns beneath the surface that, should one fall in, one would fall all the way into the spider-filled depths of Blahdyblah. As a rule, it is not hard to stumble into Faerie, should the conditions be right. Getting out again can be trickier.[/sblock]
[sblock=Denizens]Faerie is populated by beings that share their world's name: the faerie, or fae for short. They come in a bewildering array of sizes and shapes, though most are at least nominally humanoid in form. Almost all of them are gifted with magical abilities, though these are more often mischievous in nature than outright dangerous. Fae are ageless, dying only through violence or misadventure, though it's unusual that they have long-minded viewpoints or long term, byzantine plots. Most fae live their eternities one day at a time, filling each with whatever pleases it the most...be it frolicking and making merry, or horrific acts of violence.

Fae often have powerful ties to natural features in their vicinity. This is especially true of dryads and nymphs. Even more free-roaming fae such as pixies will sometimes fixate on a household or individual person, either bedeviling them or trying to aid them...though sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

Few fae dally long outside of Faerie, with the occasional exception of dryads and nymphs who become attached to trees or lakes in the mortal realm. One other big exception are the gnomes, who were originally fey but struck out into the mortal world en masse to escape persecution by fey goblins. There they became mortal, but still retain some of their carefree mindset and magical gifts.[/sblock]

*This gnome/goblim conflict happened in another world and may happen again? Or do we scratch it and play it out on this world?*

[sblock=Stats]20 HD Outsider
Shadowdancer 1 / Simple Variant Druid 1 *(saw it, np with using I actually like it)*

Str 8 (2) 
Dex 26 (10) 
Con 14 (5) +1
Int 14 (2)
Wis 20 (6)
Cha 26 (10) +4

HP: 160+44+8+8 = 220
AC: 45 (10 + 1 size + 8 Dex + 13 natural +8 deflection +5 Wis)
BAB: +22 *+20/+15/+10/+5*
Initiative: +8
Move: Ground 50', Flight 100' (good) *(below says 120')*

Fort +20 + 2 con + 2 dr + 8 luck + 1 epic = 33 
Ref +20 + 8 dex + 2 shd + 8 luck + 1 epic = 39
Will +20 + 5 wis + 2 dr + 8 luck + 1 epic = 36

*Not using epic saves and BAB*

Racial Traits
Outsider type
Special Traits 18/20 *I count 20/20*
- Small Size (1 trait) *(saw this late) list -2str/+2 dex and small characters PHB pg 20 plz*
- Fast Healing 5 (1 trait)
- Flight 120' Good (1 trait) *(above it says 100')*
- +8 Dex (4 traits)
- +4 Int (2 traits)
- +6 Wis (3 traits)
- +6 Cha (3 traits)
- SU Ability - Greater Invisibility (as Pixie) (1 trait) *Sorry cost should be 3 points*
- SU Ability - Alternate Form (as Phasm) (1 trait)
- SU Ability - Stunning Glance DC 28 (as Nymph) (1 trait)
- SLA - Mass Charm Monster 1/day DC 26 (1 trait)
- SLA - Transport Via Plants 3/day (1 trait)

Class Traits
Hide in Plain Sight (shadows)

AC Bonus (as monk)
Speed bonus (as monk)
Bonus feat: Tracking
Favored Enemy: Aberrations
Animal Companion (wolf) *(taking a companion now or wait till your higher lvl and RP it? your call)*
Wild Empathy +9 *(handle animal synergy)*
Nature Sense

Skills 230+8+6 = 244
Bluff +30 (22 ranks + 8 Cha)
Disguise +38 (20 ranks + 8 Cha + 10 circumstance)
Hide +32 (20 ranks + 8 Dex + 4 size)

Concentration +17 (15 ranks + 2 Con)
Handle Animal +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Listen +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Move Silently +32 (24 ranks + 8 Dex)
Knowledge: Nature +20 (16 ranks + 2 Int + 2 class)
Perform (Dance) +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Search +25 (23 ranks + 2 Int)
Sense Motive +25 (20 ranks + 5 wis) 
Spot +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Survival +30 (23 ranks +5 wis +2 class)

*No synergies listed and they up to +4 for some, in Dieties and Demigods*

Feats
B Tracking
1 Dodge
3 Mobility
6 Combat Reflexes
9 Flyby Attack
12 Point Blank Shot
15 Precise Shot
18 Manyshot
21 Combat Archery

Divine Rank 0
Divine AC Bonus 0
Natural Armor Bonus 13 
Divine Attack Bonus 0
Divine Save Bonus 0
Divine Check Bonus 0
Immune to transmutations, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind affecting effects.
Damage Reduction 35/ +4
Fire Resistance 20
Spell Resistance 32
Portfolio: Fortune, Cunning, Trickery, Hunting, The Moon, Fey

Domains (Caster level 10, DC 18+lvl)
Trickery - Bluff, Disguise, Hide are class skills
- Disguise Self
- Invisibility
- Nondetection
- Confusion
- False Vision
- Mislead
- Screen
- Polymorph Any Object
- Time Stop

Luck - 1 reroll/day
- Entropic Shield
- Aid
- Protection from Energy
- Freedom of Movement
- Break Enchantment
- Mislead
- Spell Turning
- Moment of Prescience
- Miracle

Moon - Turn/Destroy Lycanthropes
- Faerie Fire
- Moonbeam
- Moon Blade
- Fear
- Moon Path
- Permanent Illusion
- Insanity
- Animal Shapes
- Moonfire

Spellcasting (Druid CL 1, DC 15+lvl)
Prepared:
0 - 3 
1 - 3 

Favored Weapon 
Slivershaft - Small Frost, Flaming, Seeking Longbow +5, 128,320

*320gp over will allow that and give potions to everyone else* [/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2010)

Hmm...well, first, I'm glad you liked some of the fluff I worked out.   And I'm glad for the druid variant being allowed. I like it a lot too.

Some of the points you commented on were mistakes of mine...a couple of places I forgot to update between versions and so on. Easily fixed.

I was puzzled by some of your other comments, and I'll recount them here rather than reprinting the whole post again.

First...you sighed at my alignment.   I know. It's all neutrals and evils. Believe me, I want to be good! It's just hard to call someone like this GOOD. She has her good side, she has her good moments, but she has a darker side too. For what its worth, my -plan- is to emphasize her 'good' side more, and act as a kind of balancer to the pantheon. I hope that assuages some of your misgivings. 

This gnome/goblim conflict happened in another world and may happen again? Or do we scratch it and play it out on this world?

Well, in my scenario, the gnomes (and goblins) were originally faerie, who migrated to the mortal world. Their conflict began in faerie, and never really ended. It's still playing out in the mortal world even now. This is open, however. It's not really necessary, I just liked the flavor. Gnomes and goblins both have sort of fey flavor, and the mechanics already support them having a long history of animosity...

+20/+15/+10/+5

Not quite. She gets +1 to hit from size...I included that in BAB (perhaps I shouldn't have). She gets another +1 from the bonus at 21 HD. Total +22.

(below says 120')
100' is correct. Base move for a Small good is 50', and double that is 100'. The reference to 120' was from before I looked up the correct figure and replaced it. An error, in other words. 

Not using Epic saves and BAB.
Not sure I get this. Here's a paragraph from your character creation rules (bold added by me for emphasis):

Finally, the character has one level in a regular character class. The character recieves a feat for 21st level, skill points as a multi-class character, maximum hit points for the class's hit die, and the class features of the class's 1st level. *However, BAB and Base saves are handled for your character level.*

I interpreted that as meaning we use our character level (22 in this case, according to a post in the OOC thread) to determine our BAB and save bonuses as per normal Epic rules. If that's not the case, could you tell me how we're meant to do it?

(saw this late) list -2str/+2 dex and small characters PHB pg 20 plz
The stat changes are included in the final attributes I have listed. I'm not sure what you mean by 'small characters PHB pg 20.' Do you want me to list out all the traits of Small characters, as given in the PHB?

Sorry cost should be 3 points
Okay. Let me make one point to consider, and if you still want this to cost 3 points then I'll let it go at that.

I don't think this ability is as powerful as you seem to be under the impression it is. Bear in mind that for 2 traits, I could get the Greater Invisibility SLA at-will, and could cast it on other things than myself to boot. For free, as part of two of my domains, I get the Mislead spell as an SLA usable at will...and part of Mislead is Greater Invisibility. Thus, the pixie power isn't adding a capability the character wouldn't normally have. It accomplishes two things only: 1) The ability becomes Su, making it easier to use and harder to dispel, and 2) It because usable and dismissable as a free action. My thought is that those two things, while useful, aren't out of line for one divine trait. 

However, if you disagree, I'll respect that, and make appropriate changes to trait expenditures. 

Various synergies
Arr, yes...oversights. Been awhile since I made a non Pathfinder 3.5 character. Forgot about those. I'll fix that. 

As for the animal companion, I envision her having a wolf buddy already, though I don't necessarily think she carts it around with her on her travels necessarily. It is, after all, nowhere near as robust as she is. 

320gp over will allow that and give potions to everyone else
Well, bear in mind that everyone else has listed the cost of their items _incorrectly_. ALL magic items cost not only the value of their enchantments, but ALSO the cost of a masterwork weapon. Everyone noted the cost of the enchantment, but no one listed the cost of the masterwork weapon.

So in reality, we're ALL 300-odd gold pieces over. It's just that most didn't list the full cost of their weapons.


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 14, 2010)

Mmmi like this Goddess quite a bit! She reminds me of Sigil - easily the best character created for Jemal's game (theme wise at least).

Some points from me, if you would have them:

Faerie/Otherworld is a very nice concept - it reminds me of Jordan's Tel'aran'rhiod with some of it's aspects, but more so it reminds me of the Celtic mythology's Otherworld, especially as far as time and entering it are concerned. You connecting it to both Heliasillyel's and Ubarya's realms was a great touch. I have something in store when we settle on the planet, as far as entering *Solarianderryel* is concerned (yeah i know, damn hard Elvish names ), perhaps you could adopt the idea (a divine stairwell made of sunlight to put it in a few words, but I'll go in greater detail when the time comes)

HM sighed not at her being neutral, but at being Chaotic. It's sort of a popular alignment these days i suppose 

Your BAB is 20/15/10/5 at it's base. Unless your char classes get high BAB progression, they should not be giving you a point of BAB at lvl 1. Anything else is an AB modifier. It can get pretty hectic, and since you're using a bow you can sort of copy this paragraph from my sheet if you wish:

[sblock=Attack Bonuses]Base 20HD Outsider: +20/ +15/ +10/ +5
Feat exchange: +5 BAB
Dex: +7
Weapon: +4
Point Blank Shot: +1
Weapon Focus: +1
Rapid Shot: -2[/sblock]

We were originally going to use epic save/BAB progression, but that was reverted to the regular character progression for each class, and that IMO is a good thing. Otherwise melee classes would be even less favored (if that is possible). We have a bunch of sorcerers and/or bards, using bows now 

Synergies: HM can you point me to the synergy writeup in the DD book? I seem to have missed that as well.


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## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2010)

Thanks for the comments, and the clarification on attack bonuses, M&L. That's a big help for me. 

I have this concept that the realm of Faerie sort of 'grew' in the cracks between the existing planes, which is why it brushes against so many of them. When Silhouette came to be, she claimed the spaces between as her own. That 'between' theme permeates the world in ways both literal and metaphoric.

By the same token, it may not be immediately obvious that Faerie exists to the other gods, though I'm not a stickler on this point. I'm not sure how much interplanar traffic goes on in the game so far. 

My thought for Silhouette is that she actually really likes the mortal world, and spends a lot of time there, in one form or another. In deific terms, she's been keeping a fairly low profile. She may or may not even be aware of other gods.

If she is aware, she might be inclined to try some fun games with them in lieu of announcing herself right away. 

...I think I have an idea about alignment too. My grasp of the concept has been developing. Initially I had her as chaotic due to that 'rebel' nature...but I think perhaps she may more accurately be true Neutral, as the 'in between' alignment. She sees the value of rules...but resents the idea that she herself might be limited by them. Faerie is, after all, a land governed by rules, albeit strange and surreal ones. Plus, then each 'season' of her realm becomes a metaphor for an aspect of her being. Spring is a Neutral Good sub-realm, Summer is Chaotic Neutral, Autumn is Lawful Neutral and Winter is Neutral Evil. When she gains enough divine ranks, she can even put avatars of the appropriate alignments to act as 'queens' of each realm.

And since I see her as sort of a prototype 'druid goddess,' that could also encompass the druidic alignment requirement. The goddess is herself Neutral, but encompasses four permutations of neutrality...

Hee. Rambling a bit, but y'all see where I'm going.


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 14, 2010)

I see Silhouette as an interesting counter point to Duretep, they both have realms that effect and touch the material plane but Duretep can't go there whereas Silhouette chooses to be there. Another idea is brought up by this since you came in late Duretep had no time to make the blood oath with her meaning they can both traverse each other planes without a problem.

This is interesting and Duretep will mkae use of this every opprotunity he can as I suggest you,it's been a good year for golden apples and The Market Fantastic has a large stock.


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## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2010)

Hehe, another point of interest...I don't see that Silhouette would have any interest in closing off Faerie by oath. So not only has she not entered into such a pact, she most likely would not choose to, unless such an arrangement was very clearly necessary.

She's not really worried about invading god-armies. In fact, that might be kind of fun.


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## HolyMan (Apr 14, 2010)

@Shaylir - If I miss any questions let me know.

The goblin/gnome war is still going on then it may find a new battle field on a new world very kool.

+20/+15/+10/+5 is your listed BAB you should make a combat block listing attacks and thier modifiers.

ML has the right of it no Epic chart, just take and add your two lvls to your 20HD as normal multiclassing. I need to change that to a player gets one lvl in two different classes. Kind of like 20HD outsider is your race and the traits make it unquie. Then we add classes and all their abilities.

 Small characters you need to remember things weight less for small characters and your carrying cpacity is lessened.



> My thought is that those two things, while useful, aren't out of line for one divine trait.



Not out of line and a divine character could have Greater Invisiblity it is just compared to similar abilties what would the cost be. Things you outlined raise the cost, Mislead (and the SLA) may give you Greater Invisiblity but it a) needs to be cast (can't be done if you are affected by silence) b) last only 10 rounds (plenty of time but still a limit) c) can be dispelled or affected by a null magic zone d) a pixie has this ability but not other things to make them extremely dangerous as your other spells and abilities do.

Again sorry cost is 3 pts.

Synergies can be found on bottom page 27 Dieties and Demigods (@ML too  )

Hmm.. got me on the masterwork I missed that as I only added up abilties also, nice catch.

Need to work alittle on the wolf if you already have him as companion couldn't it be _Awakened _or from the Fey Realm a mortal wolf that "fell in"?

HM


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## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2010)

_The goblin/gnome war is still going on then it may find a new battle field on a new world very kool._

I expect that war would be going on in any world the two races find themselves in, be it Faerie, mortal, or otherwise. Not only does it have the force of historical acrimony, but the two races have opposite demeanors and similar taste for living environments...always a recipe for trouble. 

_+20/+15/+10/+5 is your listed BAB you should make a combat block listing attacks and thier modifiers._

_ML has the right of it no Epic chart, just take and add your two lvls to your 20HD as normal multiclassing. I need to change that to a player gets one lvl in two different classes. Kind of like 20HD outsider is your race and the traits make it unquie. Then we add classes and all their abilities._

Yar, I think I understand now. Thanks again to ML for taking the time to explain it. My final draft will include the changes.

_ Small characters you need to remember things weight less for small characters and your carrying cpacity is lessened._

Yep, I remember. At present it's not an issue, since her only possession is that bow (which is a Small bow).

_Not out of line and a divine character could have Greater Invisiblity it is just compared to similar abilties what would the cost be. Things you outlined raise the cost, Mislead (and the SLA) may give you Greater Invisiblity but it a) needs to be cast (can't be done if you are affected by silence) b) last only 10 rounds (plenty of time but still a limit) c) can be dispelled or affected by a null magic zone d) a pixie has this ability but not other things to make them extremely dangerous as your other spells and abilities do._

a) Actually, Spell-Like Abilities can be cast in Silence, because they have no verbal components. Just like they can be cast in armor because they have no somatic components. They do incur Attacks of Opportunity though, like spells.

b) 10 rounds for now, yes. Caster level will increase with further divine ranks. And it can be recast at will.

c) Any magical effect, including Supernatural abilities, are affected by null magic zones.

d) Pixies have this ability and a whole lot of other abilities...not sure what you mean here. 

_Again sorry cost is 3 pts._

Fair enough. I can't afford 3 points, so I'll find something else to spend that 1 point on, and rely on other powers for invisibility. That will be accounted for in the final draft of the sheet.

_Synergies can be found on bottom page 27 Dieties and Demigods (@ML too  )_

They're in the SRD too. 

_Hmm.. got me on the masterwork I missed that as I only added up abilties also, nice catch._

No charge. 

_Need to work alittle on the wolf if you already have him as companion couldn't it be _Awakened _or from the Fey Realm a mortal wolf that "fell in"?_

Well, it could be a fey wolf certainly...or a wolf she brought to Faerie from the mortal world (which is effectively the same thing after it's been there awhile). Mechanically speaking, a 'fey wolf' would be identical to a normal wolf though, since I have no feats nor abilities that enhance or beef up animal companions.

An Awakened animal is sentient, and so isn't really eligible to be an animal companion. They'd be more like Cohorts from the Leadership feat.

Hm. Leadership might be something to consider for her though. (^_^)


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 14, 2010)

Why not template the wolf? It would then be non-sentient but would still have the same sort of flavour of being from the realm of the fairy


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## Shayuri (Apr 14, 2010)

The rules on a druid's animal companion are pretty clear on it being an ordinary animal, other than the bonuses given by the animal companion class feature.

I'm not -averse- to the idea of adding a template, but I am not asking for such an exception to be made.


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## HolyMan (Apr 14, 2010)

Your call if you wish him to be "normal" start with him in your opening post but, If you wish for him to be fey or something else then say he is in the Twilight World and when you are higher HD can have him join you.

You could say he is around just not with you on this new world.

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Apr 14, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> The rules on a druid's animal companion are pretty clear on it being an ordinary animal, other than the bonuses given by the animal companion class feature.
> 
> I'm not -averse- to the idea of adding a template, but I am not asking for such an exception to be made.




Just remeber, you're a god. Your all about the exceptions.


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 14, 2010)

Shayuri - don't worry, you can get Supreme Invisibility later on if you get to 9th level Arcane spells or if you get the SDA that allows you to duplicate any spell. Supreme Invisibility is found in the Spell Compendium if i remember correctly.


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## Shayuri (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm not worried. Like I've said more than once now, my SLA's give me plenty of invisibility options. It's really not a big deal. In fact, this way I get to put that divine trait point towards something that, arguably, will be more powerful for me than an Su ability that replicated what I could already do would have been.

It's all good.


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## Shayuri (Apr 15, 2010)

Okay second, and possibly final draft. Give it a look over and see if I forgot anything. If you approve, I'll put this one over the one I posted in the Gallery already.

Epithets: *Silhouette, The Silver Lady, Goddess of Moonlight & Shadow, Lady of Masks*
Alignment: *Chaotic Neutral (Good?)*
[sblock=Realm]*Faerie, The Otherworld, The Twilight Lands*
In some ways Faerie is a 'reflection' of the 'real' world, and it shares many similar geographical features, though often embellished or distorted in some way. The plane is highly mutable though, and is constantly in a state of mild flux. This rarely affects large landscape features like lakes and mountains, but smaller features...or aspects of larger ones...will frequently move about when no one's looking, or change in tangible ways. Faerie is a place constantly suspended in phases of transition. It is a place of eternal "in-betweenness." Its sun is always at the horizon, never rising nor setting, giving it the name 'Twilight Lands.' It is never wholly summer, winter, autumn nor spring, but rather all four exist at once, in separate 'kingdoms.' It overlaps the real world in places like crossroads, where one is between one's origin and one's destination. The lack of day and night contributes to a sense of timelessness, which makes it very easy for one to lose track of how long one has been there. No one and nothing ages while in Faerie, but the time catches up with anyone returning to the mortal world.

The Otherworld is, to some extent, less -real- than the mortal world. Most artifacts from Faerie will cease to exist, or crumble to dust, when brought outside that realm. Fey beings who leave Faerie must 'anchor' themselves to something real...a landscape feature, or tree, or they will lose their immortality. Mortal creatures who eat fey food will find themselves starving to death upon leaving. In addition, a mortal who stays long enough in Faerie, eating their food, breathing their air, will start to slowly -become- fey as the substance of their bodies is replaced. 

Faerie has borders with several other planes. It is most closely aligned with the mortal realm, but shares borders with the dreamworld as well. It's said that if one could fly to the sun, on the other side one would find the heavens of Solarion??. Meanwhile, there are abysses and chasms in the caverns beneath the surface that, should one fall in, one would fall all the way into the spider-filled depths of Blahdyblah. As a rule, it is not hard to stumble into Faerie, should the conditions be right. Getting out again can be trickier.[/sblock]
[sblock=Denizens]Faerie is populated by beings that share their world's name: the faerie, or fae for short. They come in a bewildering array of sizes and shapes, though most are at least nominally humanoid in form. Almost all of them are gifted with magical abilities, though these are more often mischievous in nature than outright dangerous. Fae are ageless, dying only through violence or misadventure, though it's unusual that they have long-minded viewpoints or long term, byzantine plots. Most fae live their eternities one day at a time, filling each with whatever pleases it the most...be it frolicking and making merry, or horrific acts of violence.

Fae often have powerful ties to natural features in their vicinity. This is especially true of dryads and nymphs. Even more free-roaming fae such as pixies will sometimes fixate on a household or individual person, either bedeviling them or trying to aid them...though sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

Few fae dally long outside of Faerie, with the occasional exception of dryads and nymphs who become attached to trees or lakes in the mortal realm. One other big exception are the gnomes, who were originally fey but struck out into the mortal world en masse to escape persecution by fey goblins. There they became mortal, but still retain some of their carefree mindset and magical gifts.[/sblock]

[sblock=Stats]20 HD Outsider
Shadowdancer 1 / Simple Variant Druid 1

Str 8 (2)
Dex 26 (10) 
Con 14 (5) +1
Int 14 (2)
Wis 20 (6)
Cha 26 (10) +4

HP: 160+44+8+8 = 220
AC: 45 (10 + 1 size + 8 Dex + 13 natural +8 deflection +5 Wis)
BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5 (+1 size when Small)
Initiative: +8
Move: Ground 50', Flight 100' (good)

Fort +20 + 2 con + 2 dr + 8 luck = 32
Ref +20 + 8 dex + 2 shd + 8 luck = 38
Will +20 + 5 wis + 2 dr + 8 luck  = 35

Racial Traits
Outsider type
Special Traits: 20
- Small Size (1 trait)
- Fast Healing 5 (1 trait)
- Flight 100' Good (1 trait)
- +8 Dex (4 traits)
- +4 Int (2 traits)
- +6 Wis (3 traits)
- +6 Cha (3 traits)
- SU Ability - Alternate Form (as Phasm) (1 trait)
- SU Ability - Stunning Glance DC 28 (as Nymph) (1 trait)
- SLA - Mass Charm Monster 3/day DC 26 (2 traits)
- SLA - Transport Via Plants 3/day (1 trait)

Class Traits
Hide in Plain Sight (shadows)

AC Bonus (as monk)
Speed bonus (as monk)
Bonus feat: Tracking
Favored Enemy: Aberrations
Animal Companion (wolf)
Wild Empathy +11
Nature Sense

Skills 230+8+6 = 244
Bluff +30 (22 ranks + 8 Cha)
Disguise +40 (20 ranks + 8 Cha + 10 circumstance +2 syn)
Hide +32 (20 ranks + 8 Dex + 4 size)

Concentration +17 (15 ranks + 2 Con)
Handle Animal +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Listen +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Move Silently +32 (24 ranks + 8 Dex)
Knowledge: Nature +22 (16 ranks + 2 Int + 2 class + 2 syn)
Perform (Dance) +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Search +25 (23 ranks + 2 Int)
Sense Motive +25 (20 ranks + 5 wis)
Spot +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Survival +30 (23 ranks +5 wis +2 class + 2 syn aboveground, +2 syn tracking)

Feats
B Tracking
1 Dodge
3 Mobility
6 Combat Reflexes
9 Flyby Attack
12 Point Blank Shot
15 Precise Shot
18 Manyshot
21 Combat Archery

Divine Rank 0
Divine AC Bonus 0
Natural Armor Bonus 13 
Divine Attack Bonus 0
Divine Save Bonus 0
Divine Check Bonus 0
Immune to transmutations, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind affecting effects.
Damage Reduction 35/ +4
Fire Resistance 20
Spell Resistance 32
Portfolio: Fortune, Cunning, Trickery, Hunting, The Moon, Fey

Domains (Caster level 10, DC 18+lvl)
Trickery - Bluff, Disguise, Hide are class skills
- Disguise Self
- Invisibility
- Nondetection
- Confusion
- False Vision
- Mislead
- Screen
- Polymorph Any Object
- Time Stop

Luck - 1 reroll/day
- Entropic Shield
- Aid
- Protection from Energy
- Freedom of Movement
- Break Enchantment
- Mislead
- Spell Turning
- Moment of Prescience
- Miracle

Moon - Turn/Destroy Lycanthropes
- Faerie Fire
- Moonbeam
- Moon Blade
- Fear
- Moon Path
- Permanent Illusion
- Insanity
- Animal Shapes
- Moonfire

Spellcasting (Druid CL 1, DC 15+lvl)
Prepared:
0 - 3 
1 - 3 

Favored Weapon 
Slivershaft - Small Frost, Flaming, Seeking Longbow +5, 128,320[/sblock]


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 15, 2010)

Here i go. I'm helping HM because i'll probably ask him to Co-DM my VOTD game 
[sblock=Stats]20 HD Outsider
Shadowdancer 1 / Simple Variant Druid 1



> Str 8 (2)
> Dex 26 (10)
> Con 14 (5) +1
> Int 14 (2)
> ...



Since we will be leveling up and getting stats from Divine Rank and items it would be nice if you listed as base + this bonus + that bonus, and also list the modifier. The CHA modifier will be really important to know at a glanceCheck out my sheet for inspiration if you wish:
[sblock]*Strength 14* (+2) [Base 14]
*Dexterity **24* (+7) [Base 14] + [10/deity]
*Constitution 14 *(+2) [Base 14]
*Intelligence 1**2* (+1) [Base 12]
*Wisdom 8* (-1) [Base 8]
*Charisma **38* (+14 ) [Base 17] + [5/lvl] + [16/deity][/sblock]



> HP: 160+44+8+8 = 220
> AC: 45 (10 + 1 size + 8 Dex + 13 natural +8 deflection +5 Wis)
> BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5 (+1 size when Small)
> Initiative: +8
> ...



 Too lazy to check your HP and attributes, AC seems OK.



> Racial Traits
> Outsider type
> Special Traits: 20
> - Small Size (1 trait)
> ...



At DR1 we get Greater Teleport at will, and Astral Projection at will if i remember correctly. Well anyway we get really good means of transportation. Mayhap you'd want to invest that trait point in something else?



> Class Traits
> Hide in Plain Sight (shadows)
> 
> AC Bonus (as monk)
> ...



 Well I'm not sure you have added the speed bonus and AC bonus as monk. Maybe you have, i'm just reminding (doing this from the office)



> Skills 230+8+6 = 244
> Bluff +30 (22 ranks + 8 Cha)
> Disguise +40 (20 ranks + 8 Cha + 10 circumstance +2 syn)
> Hide +32 (20 ranks + 8 Dex + 4 size)
> ...



Glad you took a perform skill  as Heliasillyel's daugher. Perhaps you should trade one of the less useful class skills to tag Perform? I'm sure HM would agree to it if you want to keep advancing in that, although it won't be of much use without Bard levels.



> Feats
> B Tracking
> 1 Dodge
> 3 Mobility
> ...



 A-ha! So you too have fallen in the dreaded *redundant feats* trap! First, I'd like to suggest outlining which feats are Epic ones, check out Heliasillyel's sheet if you want. Combat Archery would be nice IF we were not Deities. If you are serious about using that bow, you will go for Divine Archery, and thus render that Epic Feat redundant. I advise you to read trough the Salient Divine Abilities list and mark out those who you will use, it really helps with both Trait and Feat planning.



> Divine Rank 0
> Divine AC Bonus 0
> Natural Armor Bonus 13
> Divine Attack Bonus 0
> ...



Seems OK.



> Domains (Caster level 10, DC 18+lvl)
> Trickery - Bluff, Disguise, Hide are class skills
> - Disguise Self
> - Invisibility
> ...



You should list prepared Druid spells. Not that you'll use them, but still.



> Favored Weapon
> Slivershaft - Small Frost, Flaming, Seeking Longbow +5, 128,320



 Oh definitely list your damage out. Trust me on this one. Check out the  Suncaster:

[sblock]*The Suncaster Composite Longbow +4:* +38/ + 28 / +23/ +18  (-1 if  farther than 30ft.)
*Attack with Rapid Shot* (full-round): +36/ +36/ + 26 / +21/ +16   (-1 if farther than 30ft.)

*Damage (M):* 1d8 (Piercing)  x 3 + 1d6 (Fire) / 2d10 (Fire) on   critical + 4 (Enchantment) + 2 (STR) + 2d6 vs Evil + 1 (if within  30ft.)[/sblock][/sblock]On the side note, an appearance tab would be nice - height, weight, eye colour, skin colour, grab etc. Helps with RPing.


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## HolyMan (Apr 15, 2010)

Thanks ML your right about apperance very important, and maybe a background. How did she get two mothers?

As for the Co-DM slot I could help,  want me to start the fight??

HM


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## Shayuri (Apr 15, 2010)

_At DR1 we get Greater Teleport at will, and Astral Projection at will if i remember correctly. Well anyway we get really good means of transportation. Mayhap you'd want to invest that trait point in something else?_

Plane shift at will, it seems. Still, that's a good point. I was going for something "dryady" but perhaps I can find something better.

_Well I'm not sure you have added the speed bonus and AC bonus as monk. Maybe you have, i'm just reminding (doing this from the office)_

I added the AC bonus, yes. A 1st level monk hasn't got a speed bonus yet. It kicks in at level 3.

_Glad you took a perform skill as Heliasillyel's daugher. Perhaps you should trade one of the less useful class skills to tag Perform? I'm sure HM would agree to it if you want to keep advancing in that, although it won't be of much use without Bard levels._

Not sure what you mean. Perform's already a class skill. And, as you say, it's largely for flavor (and a small amount was necessary for Shadowdancer).

_A-ha! So you too have fallen in the dreaded redundant feats trap! First, I'd like to suggest outlining which feats are Epic ones, check out Heliasillyel's sheet if you want. Combat Archery would be nice IF we were not Deities. If you are serious about using that bow, you will go for Divine Archery, and thus render that Epic Feat redundant. I advise you to read trough the Salient Divine Abilities list and mark out those who you will use, it really helps with both Trait and Feat planning._

You're making an awfully big assumption there.  But it brings up a valid point. How are we going to handle Salient Abilities? Is it one per divine rank, or do we get to pick a smattering of whatever seems appropriate once we ascend to the appropriate rank, or...what? I'm not sure if there's a hard rule on that, so some GM clarification would be nice.

I'm actually not planning on taking the Divine Archer ability, as it would require a pretty major alteration of my feat choices (requiring Far Shot and Weapon Focus in at least one bow type), and the benefits are pretty easily recreated with item properties and epic feats. Since I'm assuming we'll have limited DSA picks, I'd rather cherry pick the bennies with feats than use an all-important divine slot that I'd have to sacrifice feat slots for to qualify anyway.

Also, good point on druid spells and description. And background. 

Thanks for the feedback. I'll get another draft out soon.


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## HolyMan (Apr 15, 2010)

Hmm... a ruling I hate to do those (but I guess it's my job, sigh ) Right now as per the rulebook you will get 1 DSA per Divine Rank. Kind of wanted to play this game as the characters developing as the world did. Other possiblies may arise (specialy for DSA's that really fit the character bit have crazy prereqs).

Take your time Shayuri we will finish this little combat and RP you in.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 15, 2010)

To recreate Divine Archery you can take:

*Swarm Of Arrows* - Prerequisites  Dex 23, Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Weapon Focus (type of bow used). which will allow you to:

As a full-round action, you may fire an arrow at your full base attack bonus at each opponent within 30 feet. In Divine Archery that's 10 feet per DR.

*Distant Shot* - Prerequisites  Dex 25, Far Shot, Point Blank Shot, Spot 20 ranks. To get:

You may throw or fire a ranged weapon at any target within line of sight, with no penalty for range. In Divine Archery, one can fire an arrow within the limits of his/her personal senses (that's several miles for a Deity)

*Combat Archery *- to get the same effect Divine Archery grants.

So you will spend 3 x Epic feats to get inferior effects that will be granted by 1 SDA  AND to get all the effects you still need heavy prerequisites (weapon focus etc.) plus an additional 20 ranks in Spot (useless for a Deity that is simply aware of stuff)

SDAs: A salient divine ability is like a feat—it gives a deity a new  capability or improves one that the deity already has. A deity has one  salient divine ability for each divine rank the deity has, plus  additional salient divine abilities reflecting its status: Demigods  receive one bonus ability, lesser deities receive two bonus abilities,  intermediate deities receive three, and greater deities receive five.

So the maximum SDAs we can have are 20 for each DR + 5 for being DR 16+, or a total of 25. Which is plenty IMO.


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## Shayuri (Apr 15, 2010)

I'm aware of what SDA's are, and of what the various constituent parts of Divine Archer are. 

The nice thing about buying those effects with feats is that I don't have to buy them -all-. I can buy the ones I can get easily, immediately, and then get others later on if I choose to. Or not.

In this case, I don't have room for Weapon Focus, nor Far Shot, without sacrificing capabilities I want to start with. Thus, I can't get Divine Archer. But I can get Combat Archery, which gives me the portion of Divine Archer that I value the most at this moment.

I did look this stuff up before making up my mind.


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## HolyMan (Apr 17, 2010)

Looks like we are ready for the giants turn but I need to head to work 

Will start tonight and probably post up the results of giants attacks tomorrow night. Till then I will need stats for this spider really just size and AC incase it proves to be a more tempting target.

just hope this fight last more than 1/2 a round. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Apr 17, 2010)

I presume Summon Monster is still a full-round casting time.  If so it won't come into play until my turn on the next round and I'll post its combat block then.  Dang, just realized I forgot initiative.  I'll edit it into my action block.  If you need the spider info _right now_ it's the spider I posted in the RG thread.


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 19, 2010)

HM: a gift for you. Thank me later 

[ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIwvYuL2PMA"]YouTube-  Norse Mythology 1 - Creation of the Universe[/ame]


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## Shayuri (Apr 19, 2010)

Okay! I think this is looking pretty good. Let me know what'chall think!

Epithets: *Silhouette, The Silver Lady, Goddess of Moonlight & Shadow, Lady of Masks*
Alignment: *Neutral*
Holy Symbol: *A silver crescent, sometimes within a circle.*
[sblock=DescriptionPale skinned, and beautiful, with a wild tousle of dark hair atop her head, Silhouette is the youngest-appearing of all the gods, seeming to be only perhaps fourteen or fifteen years of age. She dresses in black gowns and slips, most often with bare feet. From her shoulders poke a pair of insect-like wings, a means by which she can be recognized by those able to see past her many disguises.[/sblock]
[sblock=BackgroundSilhouette is the first 'child' of the gods, brought into being by the actions of other gods rather than merely existing since immemorial times. As such she is ageless and eternal, yet forever younger than the original primordial deities. Silhouette was born out of the act of bridging opposites; two goddesses, equal and embodying opposite poles of existence, made a pact and sealed it with blood and sacrifice. This act reverberated both physically and metaphysically as an act of creation. Before that act, opposing elements were necessarily separated from each other and any 'contact' was violent. With the pact between Night and Day the notion of a 'union' of opposites came into being, and Silhouette achieved consciousness as the embodiment of that fundamental principle.

This underlying nature is most evident in Silhouette's realm of Faerie, with its constantly being 'between' concrete states. Her origin as a pact is also reflected in the 'sacredness' of pacts both for Silhouette and the faerie that are sparks of her essence. They cannot renege on their sworn word (though lesser promises can freely be broken as it suits them). Silhouette encompasses within herself many mutually antagonistic states as well: law and order, hunter and hunted, compassion and coldness, light and dark, and so on. Her nature, dictated by her origin, is to never achieve an extreme but to forever exist as a mediating force between them. This has given Silhouette a close tie with Nature, which is also characterized by constant cycles and unions of opposite and opposing forces. Even so, she is more a "sibling" to Nature than a mother or daughter; sharing metaphysical similarities and kinship, but ultimately different in essence.[/sblock]

[sblock=Realm]*Faerie, The Otherworld, The Twilight Lands*
In some ways Faerie is a 'reflection' of the 'real' world, and it shares many similar geographical features, though often embellished or distorted in some way. The plane is highly mutable though, and is constantly in a state of mild flux. This rarely affects large landscape features like lakes and mountains, but smaller features...or aspects of larger ones...will frequently move about when no one's looking, or change in tangible ways. Faerie is a place constantly suspended in phases of transition. It is a place of eternal "in-betweenness." Its sun is always at the horizon, never rising nor setting, giving it the name 'Twilight Lands.' It is never wholly summer, winter, autumn nor spring, but rather all four exist at once, in separate 'kingdoms.' It overlaps the real world in places like crossroads, where one is between one's origin and one's destination. The lack of day and night contributes to a sense of timelessness, which makes it very easy for one to lose track of how long one has been there. No one and nothing ages while in Faerie, but the time catches up with anyone returning to the mortal world.

The Otherworld is, to some extent, less -real- than the mortal world. Most artifacts from Faerie will cease to exist, or crumble to dust, when brought outside that realm. Fey beings who leave Faerie must 'anchor' themselves to something real...a landscape feature, or tree, or they will lose their immortality. Mortal creatures who eat fey food will find themselves starving to death upon leaving. In addition, a mortal who stays long enough in Faerie, eating their food, breathing their air, will start to slowly -become- fey as the substance of their bodies is replaced. 

Faerie has borders with several other planes. It is most closely aligned with the mortal realm, but shares borders with the dreamworld as well. It's said that if one could fly to the sun, on the other side one would find the heavens of Solarion??. Meanwhile, there are abysses and chasms in the caverns beneath the surface that, should one fall in, one would fall all the way into the spider-filled depths of The Black Chasm. As a rule, it is not hard to stumble into Faerie, should the conditions be right. Getting out again can be trickier.[/sblock]
[sblock=Denizens]Faerie is populated by beings that share their world's name: the faerie, or fae for short. They come in a bewildering array of sizes and shapes, though most are at least nominally humanoid in form. Almost all of them are gifted with magical abilities, though these are more often mischievous in nature than outright dangerous. Fae are ageless, dying only through violence or misadventure, though it's unusual that they have long-minded viewpoints or long term, byzantine plots. Most fae live their eternities one day at a time, filling each with whatever pleases it the most...be it frolicking and making merry, or horrific acts of violence.

Fae often have powerful ties to natural features in their vicinity. This is especially true of dryads and nymphs. Even more free-roaming fae such as pixies will sometimes fixate on a household or individual person, either bedeviling them or trying to aid them...though sometimes it's hard to tell which is which.

Few fae dally long outside of Faerie, with the occasional exception of dryads and nymphs who become attached to trees or lakes in the mortal realm. One other big exception are the gnomes, who were originally fey but struck out into the mortal world en masse to escape persecution by fey goblins. There they became mortal, but still retain some of their carefree mindset and magical gifts.[/sblock]

[sblock=Stats]20 HD Outsider
Shadowdancer 1 / Simple Variant Druid 1

Str 8 -1 (2)
Dex 26 +8 (10) 
Con 14 +2 (5) +1
Int 14 +2 (2)
Wis 20 +5 (6)
Cha 26 +8 (10) +4

HP: 160+44+8+8 = 220
AC: 45 (10 + 1 size + 8 Dex + 13 natural +8 deflection +5 Wis)
BAB: +20/+15/+10/+5 (+1 size when Small)
Initiative: +8
Move: Ground 50', Flight 100' (good)

Fort +20 + 2 con + 2 dr + 8 luck = 32
Ref +20 + 8 dex + 2 shd + 8 luck = 38
Will +20 + 5 wis + 2 dr + 8 luck  = 35

Racial Traits
Outsider type
Special Traits: 20
- Small Size (1 trait)
- Fast Healing 5 (1 trait)
- Flight 100' Good (1 trait)
- +8 Dex (4 traits)
- +4 Int (2 traits)
- +6 Wis (3 traits)
- +6 Cha (3 traits)
- SU Ability - Alternate Form (as Phasm) (1 trait)
- SU Ability - Stunning Glance DC 28 (as Nymph) (1 trait)
- SLA - Mass Charm Monster 3/day DC 26 (2 traits)
- SLA - Tree Shape at will (1 trait)

Class Traits
Hide in Plain Sight (shadows)

AC Bonus (as monk)
Speed bonus (as monk)
Bonus feat: Tracking
Favored Enemy: Aberrations
Animal Companion (wolf)
Wild Empathy +11
Nature Sense

Skills 230+8+6 = 244
Bluff +30 (22 ranks + 8 Cha)
Disguise +40 (20 ranks + 8 Cha + 10 circumstance +2 syn)
Hide +32 (20 ranks + 8 Dex + 4 size)

Concentration +17 (15 ranks + 2 Con)
Handle Animal +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Listen +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Move Silently +32 (24 ranks + 8 Dex)
Knowledge: Nature +22 (16 ranks + 2 Int + 2 class + 2 syn)
Perform (Dance) +20 (12 ranks + 8 Cha)
Search +25 (23 ranks + 2 Int)
Sense Motive +25 (20 ranks + 5 wis)
Spot +25 (20 ranks + 5 Wis)
Survival +30 (23 ranks +5 wis +2 class + 2 syn aboveground, +2 syn tracking)

Feats
B Tracking
1 Dodge
3 Mobility
6 Combat Reflexes
9 Flyby Attack
12 Point Blank Shot
15 Precise Shot
18 Manyshot
21 Combat Archery

Divine Rank 0
Divine AC Bonus 0
Natural Armor Bonus 13 
Divine Attack Bonus 0
Divine Save Bonus 0
Divine Check Bonus 0
Immune to transmutations, energy drain, ability drain, ability damage, mind affecting effects.
Damage Reduction 35/ +4
Fire Resistance 20
Spell Resistance 32
Portfolio: Fortune, Cunning, Trickery, Hunting, The Moon, Fey

Domains (Caster level 10, DC 18+lvl)
Trickery - Bluff, Disguise, Hide are class skills
- Disguise Self
- Invisibility
- Nondetection
- Confusion
- False Vision
- Mislead
- Screen
- Polymorph Any Object
- Time Stop

Luck - 1 reroll/day
- Entropic Shield
- Aid
- Protection from Energy
- Freedom of Movement
- Break Enchantment
- Mislead
- Spell Turning
- Moment of Prescience
- Miracle

Moon - Turn/Destroy Lycanthropes
- Faerie Fire
- Moonbeam
- Moon Blade
- Fear
- Moon Path
- Permanent Illusion
- Insanity
- Animal Shapes
- Moonfire

Spellcasting (Druid CL 1, DC 15+lvl)
Prepared:
0 - Cure Minor Wound, Create Water, Guidence
1 - Cure Light Wound, Goodberry, Entangle, Produce Flame

Favored Weapon 
Slivershaft - Small Frost, Flaming, Seeking Longbow +5, 128,320[/sblock]


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## GlassEye (Apr 19, 2010)

I think it's incredibly well done.  I'm particularly impressed with the Background and how you've made your conception of Faerie just fit like a puzzle piece with what we've done.  Nice work!


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## HolyMan (Apr 19, 2010)

Nice ML I think Ymir may = The Urborg Giant so be on the look out for a Celestial Cow to come and save the day. 

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 19, 2010)

Great job! Oh and here is a pictura suitable for Lavaria.


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## HolyMan (Apr 20, 2010)

Great Shayuri just replace the above post with the old RG one and you are set.

Now how to get you into the game and make it memorable? Also I have a question: Though it doesn't make mention in the Denizens part do the Fae worship Silhouette? 

Ok going to think of a way to gt you in while I'm off work the next two days will you be ready by this Thu/Fri (not for combat thinking of something more sinister,  ) MUHAHAHA!! ok sorry just been awhile since I got to be an evil DM (and it's hard when the charaters are gods).

HM


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## Rathan (Apr 20, 2010)

holy crap that pic is awesome... sooooo snagging that.. thanks SO much Myth


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## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2010)

Yee! Cool deal.

As for the relationship between Silhouette and the fae...I don't think it's accurate to say they 'worship' her. The fae were her first attempt at creation, and they're too similar to her to worship her...they're not really capable of worship. She is their nominal ruler, and any fey present will happily obey the orders of the Queen. She even has fey retainers that live in and around her tower at the center of Faerie. They recognize her superiority, but it isn't worship...not the way a human being experiences it. For the fey, obeying Silhouette is like falling down a hill, or a leaf turning orange in autumn...it's part of the natural order.

It probably doesn't help much that Silhouette doesn't encourage or demand worship either, at least not in terms of dogma. Of the mortal races she has a few matriarchal 'mother/creator' cults among gnomes (though most gnomes are disposed towards hero worship, deifying great ancestors of their own kind), and there are goblin she-priestesses who worship her 'winter' aspects. On the other hand, as a goddess of hunting, cunning and fortune fair or foul, she has many pockets of devotion and worship among all races. You won't find many churches or shrines in her name, but there aren't many hunters who don't carry a silver charm to earn her favor...and she is the bitch goddess of gamblers, rogues and ne'er-do-wells who love her and hate her by turns on the roll of a dice.

Okay, sheet updated. I added a picture too!

You seem to have ideas on how to add Sil, so that's fine. A couple things that may, or may not help:

Silhouette is, especially at this time, very curious and inquisitive about her surroundings. Sort of like a cat in a new house, she's liable to crawl all over just to see what's behind what.

She's rather enamoured of the mortal world; it's size and complexity and beauty. She's already learning that one of her favorite experiences is to be truly surprised. But then again, she has yet to experience an _unpleasant_ surprise.

Not sure if she's aware of the other gods yet. A lot depends on whether or not she's discovered the Grey Mists. I leave that to you.


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## Shayuri (Apr 20, 2010)

Oh hey, would it be possible for Silhouette to have been in the mortal world before she met, or saw, the other gods. I want to have a period of time open where I can plausibly set up the origin story of lycanthropes, and why she's so antagonistic and dangerous towards them.


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 20, 2010)

Wow that picture fits the concept so well it kind of makes me think you went the other way around and created the concept because of that picture  But honestly, I'm thinking you did like me and just wanted to play out your queen of Fairys concept that was conjured up for Jemal's Legends, just like me and my Sun Maiden concept?

Oh, I have saved some fairy pictures, there are definitely more of those out there than there are of fire girls (although i did add another fire girl, one that i've had for a while now). Take your pick:


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## GlassEye (Apr 23, 2010)

So what's a guy gotta do to get an update around here?


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## HolyMan (Apr 23, 2010)

Same recap as what is posted IC just highlighted the key words:


To much to finish as I need other info *so to recap* round one:

I rolled TOatM and Lavarias INITs 
ML you said all rocs hit but I saw two Natural 1's in link
VV you rolled 20d6 for Horrid wither (wilting?) and you are a 10th lvl caster so will only use half 32 points damage
Also you need Spell Penetration as these guys have SR 32, and your range is all creatures in 800' no two more than 60' apart
These giants are (evil) AC 18 HP 213 and Gargantuan (Deities and Demigods page 200) 
Going to say most are incapacitated and for now *you can go one on one for round two init below and you each will now take on one giant* please help me by giving me all info like DC and such it was hard enough looking up inits 

INIT:
TOatM = 25
Heliasillyel = 17a
Lavaria = 17b
Giants group 2 = 14
Rocs = 7 
Ubariya = 4
Giants group 1 = 3


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## Rathan (Apr 23, 2010)

It'd TOaTM's turn I do believe unless he's gone.... then Myth's turn.... then mine.. I'm just waiting my turn....


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## HolyMan (Apr 23, 2010)

You can post it Rathan you all are hopefully going to be in single fights and Lavaria notices a giant eyeing her and these guys have a base speed of 130'. Maybe cut him off as he charges towards you would make for a great post.

HM


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## GlassEye (Apr 23, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Same recap as what is posted IC just highlighted the key words:




Sorry, I was expecting an in character post that described the results of the previous round.  I didn't realize that was it.  Plus the phrase 'too much to finish' led me to believe that there was more to come at a later date.  Unfortunately Ubariya can't go until after the first group of giants and I'm not sure if she is going to be attacked by a giant in group one or group two.  <shrug>  Guess I need to wait and see what happens.


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## Myth and Legend (Apr 26, 2010)

Aww dang it i hadn't seen the natural 1s. :/ Anyway, i posted!


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## HolyMan (Apr 29, 2010)

Sorry gang been busy with the new Living world well post round 1 conculsion thursady night (EST) giving VV a little more time 

Shaylir if you are with us still you will have a post sorted out for you along with FM's post.

HM


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## Shayuri (Apr 29, 2010)

I'm here.


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## HolyMan (Apr 30, 2010)

Well I hate to admit I have bitin of more than I can chew but this high LvL combat is for the birds.

Ok these giants are cold subtype and have immunity to cold and fire deals double damage. Then they have resistance to fire 20 (Why is that a standard diety ability>?>) And they gave DR 35/+4 and DR 4/- so it is murderous book keeping.

If I double the scorching rays I get 24/20/22 so you what reduce them by 4 20/16/18 and then resist 20 points = 0/0/0 ???

So I'm not going to throw in the towel what I want is to come up with a better combat system a more RPing system with a lot less numbers. 

Yeah just got done rolling to attack spider and I'm not sure if a 19 is a hit. This brings to much to try and keep track of. Is why I just let the rocs distract a few and say they are engaged. 

So a little help would be most appertiated. 

HM 

[sblock=Fight notes]
need to store these somewhere:

49 damage from Lavaria reduced to Zero?? 

thats a hit Please roll damage along with other attack i.e. if you hit roll dmg twice - Ubariya
poison DC ?? AC HP??

98 dmg from Hellyasillel minus 35 (DR4/- x5 + no fire damage?) = 63 

INIT:
TOatM = 25
Heliasillyel = 17a
Lavaria = 17b
Giants group 2 = 14
Rocs = 7 
Ubariya = 4
Giants group 1 = 3 

Giant vs Spider = 32, 21, 19 To hit rolls
Damage vs spider = 18, 12, 19 Total:49 [/sblock]


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## Rathan (Apr 30, 2010)

You know I'm getting less and less thrilled with making a fire deity only to find EVERYTHING and it;'s grandmother has either fire resistance or fire immunity... it really takes the fun out of the combat side of my Goddess... it also makes me more than a little less effective..... and this annoys me greatly because aside from the awesome RP I knew this would produce I also came into this wanting to play a badass deity with in your face powers and attacks... so far I've been little more than an annoyance.... 

In short not a happy camper at all... 

Don't hold me to this but I'm PRETTY sure DR only applies to physical damage.. not magical damage... might want someone to confirm that though heh...


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## Shayuri (Apr 30, 2010)

Help is here!

Okay, first of all, a certain amount of fire resistance is innate to Divine Ranks of 0 or above...but that doesn't mean that everything we face has to have divine ranks. So that's one thing to keep in mind. D&D has a lot of different templates that can make normal monsters into epic monsters.

The interaction between Cold Subtype and Fire Resistance is as follows:

You subtract the Fire Resistance from incoming fire damage, then double what's left. 

Thus, a Scorching Ray would have each ray reduced by 20, then whatever got through that would be doubled.

Damage Resistance (as distinct from energy resistance and spell resistance) only operates against -physical- damage. That 35/+4 will operate against weapons, falling, collision, etc...but even a lowly magic missile spell will penetrate it automatically.

Also, Hellyasillel's bow is +4 if I'm not mistaken, so it pierces the 35/+4 damage resistance. This means the only DR that's applicable against the bow is the much, much lower DR4/-. That would be applied per arrow, of course.

As for being a fire deity...Scorching Ray is a terrible spell to use against things with resistance. This is because it's several small attacks, each of which is resisted seperately. If you want to punch through resistance, you need to use a single larger attack. This is where your Fire Seed (10d6 ranged touch, no save), and similar spells come in handy. 

Fire Resistance 20 is really no big deal if you have some decent high level fire magic at your disposal...which you do.


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## GlassEye (Apr 30, 2010)

HM said:
			
		

> thats a hit Please roll damage along with other attack i.e. if you hit roll dmg twice - Ubariya
> poison DC ?? AC HP??




Actually, despite hitting an AC 27 total I only rolled a one to hit; definitely a miss and why I wrote that it was a miss in my IC post.  Since I didn't hit I didn't bother adding poison info to my character's mini statblock yet (which also includes my summons mini statblock).

I'm not sure what you mean by 'other attack' unless you are talking to someone else.  Ubariya is busy summoning a second spider and the first spider only gets one attack.

The spider AC (AC 22) and hp (208 hp) is listed in the mini stat block that I post with each combat post.  With those rolls, only the first of the three attacks is a hit.


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## HolyMan (May 3, 2010)

Ok to let everyone know The Grey Mist will be updated SUN and WED ever week. No posted actions gets your characters "lost in thought with so many options avaiable to them."

You can post a porogression for a battle here in the OOC and I will use it unless you post in the IC. 

Example: 
Round 1: Cast Bull's Strength
Round 2: Cast Divine Might
Round 3: Attack

They can be changed as you need to but I think we will try this and work out the kinks as we go for now. 

Make sure everything I need to know is there at a glance, take the spiders attack for instant all you need put after the url is nat 1 = miss 

Later I will be posting stats for creatures and you can roll saves and give the effect in your IC posts I think this will move faster you cast a spell and put everything in the Invisible Castle roll (i.e. spell penetration, damage if the save is successful and what not) and I don't have to go in 6 different times and try and roll a save (or damage if save failed) from this this and that.

Ok going to go post end of the round nothing fancy I am off to the movies to see Friday the 13th. 

HM


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## Myth and Legend (May 3, 2010)

Heliasillyel will just keep flying above and raining arrows at her target until it is dead (at this rate, about two or three rounds more). Oh, and one thing to note is that each round we will be losing an additional Roc due to the spell wearing out. And that since the giants have Damage Reduction 35/+4 the Rocs have not really dealt damage do them via talons and grappling. Not sure on Smite Evil though, it seems like unspecified damage.


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## Shayuri (May 3, 2010)

Smite Evil doesn't give an attack any special qualities as far as damage type or DR piercing goes. It just boosts the to-hit and damage numbers.


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## GlassEye (May 4, 2010)

HM, did you change the stats on the Giants from what you were using before?  Wanna make sure that DR 0 note in your last combat post isn't a mistake.  Myth calculated her damages with the DR 4, and if they don't have DR 35/+4 then her rocs & my spiders could do damage.


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2010)

Sorry that DR is for Divine Ranks.  I listed it because everyone would know what comes with that. SR 32, DR 35/+4 and immunities I shoul have listed their other DR 4/- also my fought. Told you this maybe ablove my pay grade. 

HM


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## Myth and Legend (May 4, 2010)

Yes DR0 grants one DR 35/+4, but is the DR 4/- still correct? Because that has saved my target 36 HP so far.


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2010)

Yes it is, these guys are 20th lvl Barbarians (see Dieties and Demigods pg. 200)

I hope that DR 4/- doesn't prolong this to much  I wish to get back to the RPing while I figure out what to do about combats. Pbp is no place to run a large combat that will last 8-10 rounds. that could take almost two months 

oh speaking of which everyone prep your level ups for your characters (except you Shaylir sorry )


HM


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## Shayuri (May 4, 2010)

Aww



Also, it's Shayuri.


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2010)

Opps  Shaylir is my new halfling druid/cleric I just started playing. If your have a moment Shayuri (ha) What more do we wish to do to create this first lyncanthrope?? Have to have something posted with silver and the moon. Maybe the moon will be full this night. 

Am thinking on it "little sister". 

HM


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## Shayuri (May 4, 2010)

Okay, here's my thoughts.

There's two kinds of lycanthrope: cursed and natural.

I have a kind of specific scenario I want to write that describes the creation of 'cursed' lycanthropes. This scene you're doing now is just fine for the creation of natural lycanthropes.

Both silver and the moon are symbols of Silhouette, so my suggestion is to have the wolf's transformation be incomplete somehow...have its own power not quite be enough to make the change entirely. Silhouette can then use her power to help it along.

Thus, the lycanthropic power to shift forms comes, in part, from the moon. It surges when the moon is full (causing accidental changes), and wounds caused by silver (moon metal) can't be healed instantly via shapeshifting (ie - DR doesn't work against it).

Neither of those side effects is intentional. This is new for Silhouette too.


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## GlassEye (May 4, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Yes it is, these guys are 20th lvl Barbarians (see Dieties and Demigods pg. 200)
> 
> I hope that DR 4/- doesn't prolong this to much  I wish to get back to the RPing while I figure out what to do about combats. Pbp is no place to run a large combat that will last 8-10 rounds. that could take almost two months




Dang, this could have serious repercussions for my damage potential.  Using 3.0 damage reduction really sucks for me.  It almost totally negates my spiders ability to injure these giants.  If it were 3.5 damage reduction it would be different.   In the current round my damage just dropped from 90 to 18. Ce la vie.


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## Rathan (May 4, 2010)

Trust me GE.... I KNOW your pain only mine isn't the DR it's the fricken Fire Resistance.. heh


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2010)

Very Nice I will update tomorrow night then with the beast trying to change more but unable to. And will try and get the "moon metal" in there as well.

You are in for a surprise too but not from "The Big Bad Wolf." LOL 

HM


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## HolyMan (May 4, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Dang, this could have serious repercussions for my damage potential. Using 3.0 damage reduction really sucks for me. It almost totally negates my spiders ability to injure these giants. If it were 3.5 damage reduction it would be different.  In the current round my damage just dropped from 90 to 18. Ce la vie.




And that is what I was thinking on myself, it may take forever to play out a fight like this (at least 10+ rounds at 18hp dmg per round)

We will figure something out. 

HM


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## Shayuri (May 4, 2010)

The simplest solution would be to use the 3.5 edition rules for divinities.

They're in the SRD, so no new purchases would be required. In most ways the two editions are identical. However, damage reduction has been simplified and scaled back.

I think the game would benefit from both.

As for moon metal, don't worry too much about it. I have an idea for including it in my reply. Plus, it's really just a side effect. No need to make too much of it, IMO...


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## GlassEye (May 4, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> And that is what I was thinking on myself, it may take forever to play out a fight like this (at least 10+ rounds at 18hp dmg per round)
> 
> We will figure something out.




Well, that was just one attack for Ubariya.  Next round she'll be able to full attack and the damage should be substantially higher.  I was concerned at first because I haven't really built her with spellcasting in mind; she's not exactly a frontliner but she's no slouch in the hand-to-hand department.  At least, I don't think she is.


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## Myth and Legend (May 5, 2010)

HM as far as streamlining combat for Heliasillyel: those rocks can't hit her whopping 48 AC unless giant boy gets a natural 20. Just roll like 3 or 4 rounds worth of attacks, if he does get a natural 20 subtract the damage from her DR and the rest will go off her HP (unless they have +4 boulders lol). 

She will be doing, on average, 50-70 damage per round so it's safe to say in 3 rounds (after the 2 that have already passed) she will drop him.


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## HolyMan (May 6, 2010)

I thought dieties of the same DR (Div Rank) ignored each others DR (Dmg Red) boy is that wierd LOL. No seriously I thought I read that and that was why I chose these guys to fight.

HM

Edit: Not so you could hit them but so they could hit you LOL


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## GlassEye (May 6, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> I thought dieties of the same DR (Div Rank) ignored each others DR (Dmg Red) boy is that wierd LOL. No seriously I thought I read that and that was why I chose these guys to fight.
> 
> HM
> 
> Edit: Not so you could hit them but so they could hit you LOL




If the rocks (or any other weapon they use) aren't +4 magical weapons then it doesn't matter what Divine Rank they have; they would still have to penetrate the 35 damage resistance.  Natural attacks are different.  If a creature has DR35/+4 then his natural attacks can penetrate the same type of damage resistance.  So for the giants to affect any of us they would have to somehow close to melee and use slam attacks.

Luckily the same applies for us.  On my turn I'll be able to attack with the spear and Ubariya's natural attacks.


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## Myth and Legend (May 6, 2010)

> I thought dieties of the same DR (Div Rank) ignored each others DR (Dmg Red) boy is that wierd  LOL. No seriously I thought I read that and that was why I chose these  guys to fight.



Nope.. That's why i spent half my starting money on a +4 weapon, come on!


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## HolyMan (May 6, 2010)

Well then we might go and use my homebrewed DR rule but first let me look at the SRD Shayuri mentioned and I will have something tonight I need to get ready for work.

And so starts another week at the grind stone  I really wish I were rich, but then again I wouldn't have time to play I would just be out spending money all day. 

HM


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## Shayuri (May 6, 2010)

For SRD sites, I really like this one:  System Reference Document v3.5

It's very well organized and easy to find things in.

Look under Special Abilities and Conditions to find a generic entry that describes how Damage Reduction works. Then there's a whole section on gods under the heading 'Divine' near the bottom. It shows what the Divine Ranks bestow.


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## HolyMan (May 7, 2010)

So I am home ahhh!! Thanks for the links that SRD took and broke down the Divine Ranks kind of like what we have at character generation, very easy to read. It looks like when the changed Dmg Red from 3e to 3.5 they dropped the amount but raised the weapon type (beause they got rid of the +1/+2 etc. all together).

If we were to change that might mean we should change other things as well (they have energy resistance listed as Fire 5 + Divine Rank - which means they probably fiigured it was to high after playtesting), and I don't wish a redo of characters. 

My HB rule (which was made back when we played 3.0) was that a weapon equaled it's total cost plus when it came to damage reduction. So a +3 flaming dagger of speed was treated as a +7 weapon for overcoming Dmg Red. And I upped some of the creatures Dmg Red accordingly. Which I didn't do much because it hardly came up I think there was one undead guy who I did this for and then when they fought him I forgot he even had Dmg Red.  He died pretty quick.

What if we were to use the HB rule for the weapons and just change the Dmg Red entry to:

Damage Reduction = DR 35/+4 ( +0/+1 for every two Divine Ranks)

Means a Dieity with Divine Ranks(20) would have DR 35/+14 could be hurt by a +5 holy frost dancing mace of wounding *shrugs* open to suggestions


HM


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## Shayuri (May 7, 2010)

I really think the easiest (and therefore best?) way to do it is just to go with the rules in the SRD.

That way there's no muss, no fuss, no misunderstandings, and if there's problems in play we can house-rule as needed using a source we all have equal and easy access to.

In particular I like the SRD rules for damage reduction. I think they work a lot better than the old 3.0 DR paradigm.

As far as your proposed rule, I think it makes Damage Reduction -way- too powerful. It would be almost impossible to bypass for most of the game, and for most enemies, and would completely screen out most damage from most attacks.

And when you consider how many monsters (especially epic ones) have HUGE numbers of hit dice, that just makes it worse.

Before we go making lots of changes, lets try using the rules as written. That's what I'm thinking. I have zero objection to making minor modifications to my character to reflect that.


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## HolyMan (May 7, 2010)

The modification would be to have everyone recieve Dmg Red 10/epic. I really didn't plan on giving anything you fight epic weapons, and the little 10 points won't save you from most of the Epic level monsters attacks.

Take these giants if we go by your rules they hit for 2d8+9 with five attacks so each would do between 1 and 15 points or 5-75 points per round. It would take them 5-6 rounds before they dropped someone to zero.

Hey wait if they don't by pass your DR 35/+4 now automatically like I thought does that mean they can't do any damage to you??

Checking....Checking....

Yes they only have masterwork weapons so these guys can't harm you, diffently need to work something out.

HM


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## Shayuri (May 7, 2010)

Well, bear in mind that anything that has epic DR can penetrate epic DR. 

And DR isn't -supposed- to save you from attacks. It's supposed to mitigate some of the damage. DR that makes you invulnerable to attacks is too much DR. That's why they reduced it. 

As gods, we'll have a plethora of defenses. Spells, high AC, high saves, and eventually items as well. 

DR isn't meant to make creatures immune to damage. It's meant to reduce the consequences of one's other defenses failing.

By the book, anyway.


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## Myth and Legend (May 7, 2010)

DR 10/epic means essentially 10/+6 . So instead of DR 35+divine rank/+4 we get at most DR 30/+6 at the height of our progression. That would make it pretty easy for you to balance things out HM, as something that does 5d10 damage still pushes trough DR10, and later on you can give the BBBG a +6 sword if you really needed him to threaten us.

Seeing as how they greatly reduced the effect of Divine Damage Reduction when compared with the old variant of the SDA (as written in Deities and Demigods), i'd say they found out that DR is too much with 3.0 rules.

I also see that they greatly increased Divine Fast Healing (which was somewhat useless before). Interesting.. I should read the 3.5 SDAs again.


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## GlassEye (May 8, 2010)

Well, I wasn't exactly sure where we are in the round but it seems that we're being pretty lax about it anyway.  I did Ubariya and Co. attacks:  98 damage to the giant and 33 to the crystal (taking into account dmg. resistance and hardness respectively).  That's all she can do for the moment.  Hopefully the rest of you can end it.


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## HolyMan (May 10, 2010)

Sorry no update everyone got to work at 9am and got off 11pm got a busy (and profitable  day) But on the brightside I should be off tommorrow and will work on getting updated 

GE is right very lax about the rounds just post up if you wish and we will start back from the top. 

HM


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## Voda Vosa (May 10, 2010)

Sorry for the extended hiatus, I'll reasume posting here in no time, just have to many games to update!


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## GlassEye (May 11, 2010)

Good to know that you are still with us, Voda


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## Shayuri (May 11, 2010)

Hee. It's worth pointing out that Silhouette can cast Protection from Energy at will, so ordinary cold would never actually hurt her unless it did more than 120 damage at once, before she could recast it.

For the sake of drama, we can say this was some kind of supernatural cold, or something...a side effect of the Titan's presence in the world...


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## HolyMan (May 11, 2010)

Darn it I didn't see it   I looked and saw you didn't have Resist Energy. Protection gives you points to withstand cold damage (and this is non leathal to start) but does it protect from exhaustion and other effects. Not like you can die from this you are immortal but that leads to the queston what does happen when you reach 0 hp??

And thanks sorry i had to take over your character for a minute (I do hate doing that) but I did need to set some drama afloat.

If you find time a cold induced illusion post (or maybe a how you came to have two moms- hope you got them both something in Sunday LOL- or some memory of a warm day in the Fey??) up to you I don't want you to feel you can't post because we are waiting for the rescuers. 

Which reminds me I haven't seen a post from ML in  little while in BaHM, hope she is doing well and not having RL issues like I was this weekend.

HM


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## Rathan (May 11, 2010)

If we can get into the next round I'd just Shatter Spell.. or more usefully disintegrate the damned tower shard which I know for a fact would take it down.... but I am waiting to see if VV posts as I don't want to steal his thunder at all


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## Shayuri (May 11, 2010)

As long as Protection from Cold is active, that is, as long as the duration lasts and as long as it has points of protection left, the user is impervious to the effects of cold. And since environmental cold typically only does a couple of dice of damage per turn, it would take quite awhile to chew through 120 points of protection. And even after it got through, she could just recast it.

But yar, I don't mind this particular case. Me saying this is mainly for future reference, against normal, mundane coldness.


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## HolyMan (May 13, 2010)

When you hit DR 1 you will be immune so I had to try and get you guys to sweat somehow LOL. Thanks for understanding.

Sorry for the short update I will have more this Sunday but to give you a clue, think Gilligan's Island. 

HM


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## Myth and Legend (May 13, 2010)

Shayuri just an FYI, the whole Ubarya's Mirror thing is in this post of mine, in case you are wandering or haven't read the whole thread.


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## Shayuri (May 13, 2010)

Is there something in it that I'm contradicting?

I read it, but sometimes I gloss over details of things as I busily create my own spin on them. 

If there's something wrong just let me know.


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## Myth and Legend (May 13, 2010)

No not at all, just that the name Ubariya's Mirror was established pretty much by me alone in a signle post, so I thought you might have missed that, and since Heliasilyllel used it in my last post i figured it'd be best to show you the creation of the sun & moon post.


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## HolyMan (May 13, 2010)

Update to this game. I think the SRD Shayuri sent a link to will be the new Divine Based rules for this game it seems balanced and there are minimal changes needed. If you haven't gone to the link you should and click Divine in the left side column. I will update the RG accordingly please do the same to your characters, oh and while your at that go ahead and lvl them up. 

You to Shayuri it will just make it easier all around.  You played for at least a month and I was suppose to upgrade everyone each month.

Ok Update Sun and we will start putting the finishing touches on this little world. My orginial concept was to have your characters lose their DR because they are trapped on this world without followers, but I thought it would be to much to down grade from like DR6 to DR0 (not to mention everyone being mad at me).

HM


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## Shayuri (May 14, 2010)

yay! Thanks!

Just to make sure I understand, we level up both classes at once? Does that mean we gain both hit dice (maxed), or just the biggest of the two?

Similarly, are we considered level 22 characters for purposes of BAB and save bonuses, or level 24 characters? Do we get a level 24 feat? Attribute upgrade?


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## HolyMan (May 14, 2010)

Let's see it's like leveling up one class and then the other so yes you would get things like lvl 3 feat, and lvl 4 ability adjustment. 

You get max hp from each class and all abilities from each, just think of it as double leveling you are gods and should be allowed to level twice where mortals can only lvl once.

Which leads me to the question of XP?? is it neccsary to keep track of XP or do we just keep those cost down and understand that they were paid for. i.e. don't spend alot on creation/xp cost spells

HM


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## Shayuri (May 14, 2010)

Deities and other powerful epic beings normally have an "exp reserve," which is a collection of points they can spend on spells and item crafting as if they were experience points, though they have no effect on the entity's advancement.

As for how many exp in the reserve, I expect that would vary by Divine Rank in our case. Perhaps 1000 per rank or something similar?

Also, again just to be clear, the shift to Rules As Written means:

- We're dropping the class bonuses to BAB and saves, and using Epic Bonuses instead (at 24 hit dice, the epic bonuses are +2 BAB and +2 saves).

- We're losing the + Charisma mod luck bonus to saves.

- Fire damage resistance drops to 5.

- Damage Reduction changes to 10/epic.

Assuming this is accurate, I'll post the new stats for Sil up right away.


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## Rathan (May 14, 2010)

wait what?..... so my huge cha bonus is now gone for my saves?... that's one of the reasons I decided to PLAY a class that needed a high cha...

*sighs softly* please tell me this is not serious? I don't want nor will I go through a crap load of changes again.. we JUST got through the first initial round of changes and re-vamps. 

Lavaria is not overly strong.. nor overly 'meaty' either.. I wanted her resistant and resilient, thus meaning high saves and high AC.... why do we have to change this and nerf one of her original character concepts???


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## Shayuri (May 14, 2010)

It still boosts your DCs and your AC. Still plenty of reasons to pump Cha.

Im sure you'll be fine.


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## Rathan (May 14, 2010)

Double Post... Ignore this...


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## Rathan (May 14, 2010)

it's a little not fair at this point to do this actually.. I built her around having good saves.. if she losses her luck bns to saves her saving throws are going to blow as none of her abilities linked to saves are worth a damn... 

I'm sorry but a god or goddess should have high saves... it makes NO sense that they would be on par with an epic level character of the same level.. they SHOULD be higher.. they're a deity for gods sake... :/ 

in short I am adamantly opposed to these changes... be it a biased opinion or not....


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## Shayuri (May 14, 2010)

Well, how would you have designed her had the GM been using rules as written from the start?

To be fair, most epic characters have high saves because of their ginchy gear...and remember that gods are flat-out immune to most things you need to save against in the first place.

Besides, even with only a 14 Constitution, for example, Silhouette has a Fort save of +24. That's not bad -at all- considering she has no bonuses from gear or buffs.


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## Voda Vosa (May 14, 2010)

Shayuri is right. Since all will not have such high saves, enemies will have also lower saves, so it is fair. Perhaps you could rebuild her if you feel the changes specially prejudices Lavaria.


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## HolyMan (May 15, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Deities and other powerful epic beings normally have an "exp reserve," which is a collection of points they can spend on spells and item crafting as if they were experience points, though they have no effect on the entity's advancement.
> 
> As for how many exp in the reserve, I expect that would vary by Divine Rank in our case. Perhaps 1000 per rank or something similar?
> 
> ...




No we will be keeping the house rules and adding them to the SRD both the add CHA mod. to saves and not using the epic progreesion rules are things we talked about be for and added to something similar to your SRD.

The only difference in your SRD is the amount of DR and fire resisantance a character gets everything else looks the same.

@ Rathan: Really all you need to change is DR and Fire resistance, but aren't you immune?

HM


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## Rathan (May 15, 2010)

that I am for fire... and I don't mind the DR change... 35 was craazzyy hehe... however without fast healing of some kind... healing is going to be a bitch for me unless I can find a way for fire to heal me LOL....

if we're keeping saves as is then I'm fine.... I really didn't want to go back and calculate stuff again....


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## Frozen Messiah (May 17, 2010)

I just finished posting for Duretep and it got me to thinking if tennis can be played upside down?

Just a random thought...


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2010)

No help IC from anyone. I thought you all would come up with a way to help make the worlds oceans. Don't forget the creatures in the ice. 

HM


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## Rathan (May 18, 2010)

I'm getting there damn it LOL.... If Lavaria has to she'll make the oceans herself.... she won't rule them.. but she'll melt them into vast oceanic puddle if she has to alone heh


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2010)

LOL I hope not I pictured it as Lavaria at the center a ball of heat and the others breaking up the ice all around as it gets slushy. They release some of the creatures trapped in the ice. And the reason the ocean water is salt water is because it was a manifestation of the Urborg Giants hand, even goods have the same bodily content.

HM


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## GlassEye (May 18, 2010)

Sorry.  Not much Ubariya can do to melt ice.  No offense but she's little interested in creatures in the ice.  That could change though.


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2010)

Then maybe she is interested in gettimg off the ice  just know that there will be no going back to the Grey Mist yet.

HM


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## GlassEye (May 18, 2010)

I'm sure it's a lack of imagination on my part but I'm just not sure where we go from here.


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2010)

What do you mean GE??

HM


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## GlassEye (May 18, 2010)

I mean I don't know what to do.  I'm not really sure how Ubariya would react to Silhouette or what she would do at the ice pack.  That's it, really.


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2010)

Your post was fine (even added a creature thanks!) As for your caverns they are surrounded by tall mountains and not easily accessible right, so they will not be flooded.

As for Sil I would think this is a time to figure out what your character does when she meets a stranger, are you friendly and helpful? do you try and make friends or do you mistrust until they prove themselves? do you guve them a chance to prove themselves. All part of character development (one of my favorite parts). 

Ubariya has lived a while and maybe describing a past experience to explain why she deals with people the way she does is in order also. 

I thought you meant where to go adventure wise LOL (I know there is only so much you can throw at a god.)

HM


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## GlassEye (May 18, 2010)

Actually I kinda like the idea of partially submerged waterways beneath her mountains.  Think Dark Creepers (with a little spidery something-something) on boats.  Maybe this is influence from the LPF stuff I've been thinking about with the halflings on boats.

Good points.  I think Ubariya is naturally distrustful but she is unwilling to bring about any sort of confrontation until she is able to take the full measure of her opponent.  Not saying Silhouette is an opponent; Ubariya has yet to figure out how things stand especially since things haven't quite gone as she might have expected.


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## HolyMan (May 18, 2010)

Speaking of LPF I have been a little busy over there, 

I think a few tons of water could get through the cracks then and give you a nice alternate route to Ubariya's realm for those with no climbing kit.

HM


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## GlassEye (May 27, 2010)

HolyMan said:
			
		

> Ubariya has lived a while and maybe describing a past experience to explain why she deals with people the way she does is in order also.




Been thinking about this a little.  As a former servant of capital-D Death, Ubariya would be reluctant to get too close to anything since, in her experience, _everything_ dies; even (especially?) young gods.


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## HolyMan (May 28, 2010)

Ok good thinking also let's see we have no "Death God" so for our game why not have people worship death as an abstract or law of nature. I mean how can you say their is an all powerful being ruling death it can't be controlled it just is. 

We should look into that see how everyone wants to play it maybe things that aren't defind by a god playing can be worshipped in spirit or as a cult.

HM


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## Shayuri (May 28, 2010)

Death could be viewed as part of the cycle of life...

I was thinking of giving Silhouette some resonance with a sort of druidic/Celtic "Three-Faced Goddess," due to her shifting nature. 

Though honestly, Death as it applies to corpses and afterlife and underworld feels more like an Ubariya thing to me.

Oh! Also, I'm planning on making Silhouette's mortal clergy druids instead of clerics, in general. When you think about it, it's a perfect fit. Druids have bonuses to resist fey magic, they gain druidic spells...which is what Silhouette casts...and they gain Wild Shape, which is really just a scaled-down version of Silhouette's much more flexible and powerful Alternate Form ability. They even use the same underlying rules.

In her guise as huntress, she gets some rangers too...and in her aspect as fortune and luck, she gets some bards and rogues.


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## Voda Vosa (May 28, 2010)

Hey don't steal my druids! =)


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## Shayuri (May 28, 2010)

You can have druids too...I see your priests having a very different 'spin' on nature. Probably more likely to be 'militant' druids, less tolerant of civilization. I could also see your god as attracting more attention from 'nonhumanoid' druids, like treants and savage, primal creatures.


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## Frozen Messiah (May 28, 2010)

The worshipers of Duretep care little about death, it is in the idea of the religion that death really means nothing. Their heaven is The Dreaming and their hell is The Waking giving them a very fanatical following to Duretep. Their prayers are usually done to try to emulate dreams as best as possible. The saints of the religion are believe to have transcended their mortal nature and became a creature of dreams, the greatest of them being Uldealo the Knower who acts as Durtep's advisor.

Do what you want with death because the only thing that Dutretep would care about would be how to emulate how it feels in dreams.

@Shayuri: Why doesn't Silhouette want to come to the Dreaming? We have cake if that will make it more appealing?


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## Shayuri (May 28, 2010)

Silhouette _can't_ come to the Dreaming right now. She's in the Material Plane, and has no current means of leaving it. She'll need to find a naturally-occurring portal to Faerie, or to the Dreaming in order to make good on that invitation.

That, or achieve Divine Rank sufficient to cast Plane Shift.

...

I suppose she COULD use a Miracle to emulate Plane Shift, but that's hard on the ol' exp reservoir.


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## GlassEye (May 28, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Ok good thinking also let's see we have no "Death God" so for our game why not have people worship death as an abstract or law of nature. I mean how can you say their is an all powerful being ruling death it can't be controlled it just is.
> 
> We should look into that see how everyone wants to play it maybe things that aren't defind by a god playing can be worshipped in spirit or as a cult.
> 
> HM




Ubariya is a death god.  It's a major portion of her schtick.  She's the Weaver who cuts the thread of life sending the soul to its final reward (unless they haven't been claimed by a god, then she recycles the soul).


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## Voda Vosa (May 28, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Silhouette _can't_ come to the Dreaming right now. She's in the Material Plane, and has no current means of leaving it. She'll need to find a naturally-occurring portal to Faerie, or to the Dreaming in order to make good on that invitation.
> 
> That, or achieve Divine Rank sufficient to cast Plane Shift.
> 
> ...




B-But he's offering cake! CAKE! For crying out loud!


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## Frozen Messiah (May 28, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Silhouette _can't_ come to the Dreaming right now. She's in the Material Plane, and has no current means of leaving it. She'll need to find a naturally-occurring portal to Faerie, or to the Dreaming in order to make good on that invitation.
> 
> That, or achieve Divine Rank sufficient to cast Plane Shift.




There is a gate to the dreaming on the material plane, it's guarded by the creatures of the dreaming but you are invited so no harm would come to you, and if you come to the dreeaming it is most likely far easier to find a portal to Faerie from there.


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## Shayuri (May 28, 2010)

Sil doesn't know any of that IC though.


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## HolyMan (May 29, 2010)

@GE I don't think Ubariya is the kind of death god I was thinking of. She is more death is a natural event and can not be prevented. I was thinking a god whose followers worship the causing of death (murder, hunting, torture, etc.) or the bringing about of the end life and the start into the next journey.

Please correct me if I am wrong about your views, wouldn't want to be wrong on something this important.

@everyone: Tell me if you have an immedaite or long term goals for your character (if you don't want others to know you may PM me) I have another very small adventure planned and then would like to start working on character development.

And I am assuming everyone has done there lvl ups.

HM


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## Shayuri (May 29, 2010)

Some goals for Silhouette:

- Acquire animal companion.

- Drop by to see this dream god.

- Explore the cosmos and planes more, and learn how they fit together.

- Get some stars up there somehow!


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## Voda Vosa (May 29, 2010)

Goals of The One and the Many:

-Reproduce: Populate all possible corner of the world with life, if plants can't live there they'll spawn fungi, if not, animals could. Algae in water bodies of course (that are not plants by the way)

-Comon mind: As in the world The One and the Many left, the god will try to create a super intelect that will eventually overide his own, becoming a fusion of the two world's individuals in one more powerful entity. Perhaps as he gains levels will be a nice mechanic explanation.

-Ban of undeads: The One and the Many will not tolerate any undead creature, or anything that breaks the natural cicle, and will try to destroy such things with fanatic seal. A world ruled by natural laws is the goal.

-Tree of Memories: A giant, really giant, gargantuan tree, where all knowledge is stored for future generations. It will take time to grow, but initially it could grow a lot with the stored knowledge of his previous world. The creation of this creature will allow his sentient followers to store their consciousness in the tree before dying, thus gaining immortality at some extent. But what it is really used for will be like a giant data base for the next generations, storing knowledge and "people". Think of having Einstein consciousness stored in some library, and you could go there and talk to the guy. Something like that.


I'm drinking my Friday's scotch, just letting you know.


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## Frozen Messiah (May 29, 2010)

Duretep's goals:
- Find something to guard the Protcullis Chimeric and to police the dreaming

- Build his religion

- contact all of the gods seperately to have a chat with them about their people so he is able to create proper dreams/nightmares for them

oh and I had an idea that the Metropolis is now underwater due to the addition of seas and what not. What are peoples thoughts on that?


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## Shayuri (May 29, 2010)

Has a nice R'yleh feel to it, though it might make visits complicated.

I suppose gods don't breathe though, so it's all good.


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## GlassEye (May 29, 2010)

Oops, totally forgot about level ups.  May be a little bit before I can get them done.  I'm still getting things organized from moving and it's keeping me away from the computer.

Ubariya's goals (for the moment and not necessarily in order of importance):

- Give birth!
- Get some followers and establish her religion
- Explore her new home & get tOatM to plant a jungle in the Cradle

Re: 'Death'.  I chose LN as an alignment for a reason: she can have clerics one step removed and followers of just about any alignment.  This means she can have LE clerics with darker cults.  Many of those 'murder cult' type things would also fall under her purview.  She may disapprove of the more chaotic ones but if they bring death at her command then they are still useful tools.  Otherwise, she may feel her domains are being encroached upon and have to fight for her sphere of control.


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## HolyMan (May 30, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> Otherwise, she may feel her domains are being encroached upon and have to fight for her sphere of control.




Oh really hmm.... *rubs hands together* 

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 1, 2010)

My question is: Do we even _know_ about this city?  You've mentioned it in OOC posts a couple of times but I don't think its ever come up IC; not to my recollection anyway.

Also, yes, we did RP nine pages in the beginning before we needed a DM post.  But that was introduction and discussion of how we wanted to build the world.  I'm having a hard time coming up with a reason for traveling to the city as the logical next step (to me anyway) would be for Ubariya to go to her home and create some lifeforms.  Except she doesn't actually have the power to do either action.


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## Shayuri (Jun 1, 2010)

Silhouette would be fine with just exploring this new world for awhile and seeing what mischief she can get into. She has no pressing needs or desires that require her to be in one place or another. Faerie ticks along just as well without her as it does when she's there.


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## Frozen Messiah (Jun 1, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> My question is: Do we even _know_ about this city? You've mentioned it in OOC posts a couple of times but I don't think its ever come up IC; not to my recollection anyway.




I would have assumed that they may know there is a city but not where it is. I didn't really think about it at the time, do you think I should make this little party gathering of Duretep and Silhouette larger .

Edit: Wait did you mean Duretep's city or this new one?


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## HolyMan (Jun 1, 2010)

The newer city LOL the one The Forger said was being built in the southern hempisphere (an IC post )

I was thinking that some of you would want to get back to your original followers but being stuck here on this planet makes you weaker so perhaps finding a way to transplant some to this new world.

You can always post weeks/months going by and then "get bored" you are gods and we need not post every minute you spend waking.

How about the group agreeing to go about exploring/resting and then meeting in the city to discuss what to do next. Or if you think you don't need the others help just go and do what you want, I can't stop you YOU ARE ALL GODS!! LOL 

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Jun 2, 2010)

I believe that Duretep will send Uldealo as his replacment at this meeting, unless he is invited by one of the gods (as was stated in the binding of him to the Dreaming).


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## GlassEye (Jun 2, 2010)

HM said:
			
		

> The newer city LOL the one The Forger said was being built in the southern hempisphere (an IC post )




Hmm, there it is just three or four posts above my latest post.  Some days I wonder about my perceptive skills.  My apologies, HM.


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## HolyMan (Jun 3, 2010)

NP GE to busy looking at the kool map I found huh? LOL 

On to the meeting you have names to dish about.

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 3, 2010)

That is a nice map.   Lots of seas and islands.  I'm sensing the birth of a highly maritime world.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 3, 2010)

Ummm... Map? Also hi again, i've been away for a few days  RL and stuff as usual. I will lvl up Heliasilylel tonight, I need to take a look at some spells.


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## GlassEye (Jun 3, 2010)

Yeah, HM posted a map IC a short while back.  One of those fractal world generator maps, I would guess.  Not exactly what we had discussed months ago but I can roll with it.


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## GlassEye (Jun 8, 2010)

So, HM, we're mostly all in the city.  What next?


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## HolyMan (Jun 9, 2010)

I was thinking general consensus/arguments of World name, the city you are in name, and then I plan a revolt. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 9, 2010)

Ubariya doesn't really care what the name of the world is, nor what the name of this city is.  For her it's 'the World'; mortals can call it whatever they like.  Likewise, she's ok with 'the City of the Gods'.  

And a revolt?  That's... revolting!


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## HolyMan (Jun 15, 2010)

Still have not seen level ups I'm sure everyone can do them without needing them checked but I just wanted to know they were done, 

So level up and then we can get the revoulting revolt started.

HM


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## Frozen Messiah (Jun 16, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Still have not seen level ups I'm sure everyone can do them without needing them checked but I just wanted to know they were done,
> 
> So level up and then we can get the revoulting revolt started.
> 
> HM




Wait...we leveled up?


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## Shayuri (Jun 16, 2010)

Heee

Yes, he posted a couple of weeks ago that we leveled.  In both classes, no less.

Silhouette should be done now, in the RG.


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## Frozen Messiah (Jun 16, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Heee
> 
> Yes, he posted a couple of weeks ago that we leveled.  In both classes, no less.
> 
> Silhouette should be done now, in the RG.




HOT DANG!!!! 

time for Duretep to get a new pair of shoes, not that he wears shoes because the fin curtails all of that but...yeah I will go do that now


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 18, 2010)

DR is what's important dears, not Class levels  Still, I'm thining HM will have a very hard time balancing and running this game past DR6 or so. See here on the strength of Deities. With Alter Reality we can all have a permanent spell buff of every kind on ourselves. So every Wizard, Druid, Cleric, Bard etc. spell there is. Permanent. That includes Antimagic Field that does not screw with our own gear/spellcasting but does so with the enemy's.

Not to mention we get things like Mass Life and Death.

So while we are still in the CR 20-25ish range now, it will get progressively worse when we grow in char levels and Divine Rank. By that time it'd be better to stick with pure roleplaying wiht maybe the occasional slaying of something like a Prismatic Dragon (although an optimized Deity even with SRD only access can pretty much destroy it at the later stages). So more freedom, worshippers, cities, us intervening in the lives of mortals, giving them dreams, destinies, guidance. Us plotting against one another, spawning more deities (as many close pantheons are pools of incest) etc. etc.

Thoughts?

OH, and HM: what i have to do now is level up and reduce my DR to 10/Epic right?


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## GlassEye (Jun 18, 2010)

edit


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## HolyMan (Jun 19, 2010)

Yes this game is getting hard to find challenging "problems" for the group. Don't know what I am going to do after this one, still the Library of Alexandra ideal I have jotted down, but need to work out the hook. 

Ok umm questions yes and yes ML and for your IC question you can go to regular sorcerer if you wish I thought you were already.

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 21, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Yes this game is getting hard to find challenging "problems" for the group. Don't know what I am going to do after this one, still the Library of Alexandra ideal I have jotted down, but need to work out the hook.
> 
> Ok umm questions yes and yes ML and for your IC question you can go to regular sorcerer if you wish I thought you were already.
> 
> HM




Perhaps, if you are uncertain of how to challenge our characters, we should let the game end.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 22, 2010)

Noo let's not do that! HM let's just RP for now and use stats only for really important god on god fights later on? We can quell this rebellion by doing godly things and impressing the locals or something?


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## HolyMan (Jun 22, 2010)

That's what I am thinking ML this game is going to be about 80% RP and 20% rolls. But what I was saying was motivation from me for your characters you guys are going to have to provide sometimes your own "quest" and maybe even the resoultion. Why look to me for everything that happens you are gods and as such you will find a way around any problem you could go FM's way and play in your own world occasionnally making forrays with the others (like finding this library). 

For now just know that I am here to moderate more than control the game flow. I say we let all of you go your way and me as impartial keeps it frm getting to crazy LOL

HM


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## Shayuri (Jun 22, 2010)

I'm fine with that. I have some ideas for Silhouette already.


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## GlassEye (Jun 22, 2010)

M&L said:
			
		

> So more freedom, worshippers, cities, us intervening in the lives of mortals, giving them dreams, destinies, guidance. Us plotting against one another, spawning more deities (as many close pantheons are pools of incest) etc. etc.




This is what I want.


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## HolyMan (Jun 22, 2010)

So this is going to be a long and great game then. 

Where to start?

HM


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## GlassEye (Jun 23, 2010)

How about with an IC post?   Ubariya asked a question of one of the Forger's minions which needs a response before I can do anything else.

Once this situation is dealt with then I can get busy.


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## GlassEye (Jun 23, 2010)

How many Titans are there?  Certainly enough that we won't be fighting them, it seems.  And powerful enough that my Intimidate can't work on them.  <sigh>  Let's hope Heliasillyel is successful.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 23, 2010)

Humph Titans can't kill us. We can shred them eventually, but Heliasillyel IC will avoid bloodshed if possible.


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## Voda Vosa (Jun 23, 2010)

I was planning on boring roots on them or something plant-nasty.


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## GlassEye (Jun 23, 2010)

Well, I'm fairly sure HM wants these guys to be our demonic/dark god adversaries.  They likely have some sort of power from the Forger that makes them _more_ than just Titans (and possibly more powerful en masse than the group of us quasi-deities).  As such Heliasillyel will likely fail in her diplomacy and combat (if it comes about) could be dicey.  Of course, this is all paranoid speculation on my part...


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 23, 2010)

She has a score of 60 for this Diplomacy check, which is 10 higher to do the most severe attitude change in non-Epic Diplomacy usage. Also, Diplomacy is not a mind-affecting ability or anything, and there is no way for one to be immune to it (unless they are a PC of course )


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## Shayuri (Jun 23, 2010)

By the same token, the GM's in his rights to say that negotiation in any given circumstance is impossible. It may be that this enemy is simply implaccable, and that there's no common ground for any level of diplomacy to take root in.

That's not to say it's not worth trying. But it's probably not fair to the GM to expect one skill roll to (potentially) derail an entire encounter.

Of course, he may have anticipated that too, and accounted for it, which will lead to a more satisfying conclusion than simply saying, 'it doesn't work.'

Let us see.


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 23, 2010)

Heh this is getting interesting. Is Rathan still with us?


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## HolyMan (Jun 23, 2010)

I'm not sure he is around but not much here. I was hoping he might take to trying to take over the world and such. Would make some great story.

Also your diplomacy worked just not on the whole group.

HM


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## Rathan (Jun 24, 2010)

I'm here..... but with my moving.... getting the fiancee ready to move at the end of the month.... and work... I've had to slow my posting down in areas where I felt it was most prudent to. I have been watching carefully and waiting for the opening to make a Heres move and try and set plans in motion to rule the planet transformed into fire and lava... I just haven't gotten the opportunity to yet hehe


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## HolyMan (Jun 25, 2010)

NP Rathan just glad you are still with us and good luck in the real world.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Jun 30, 2010)

Hehe, following Norse myth, this is how we get Fire Giants  BTW, for those of you who raged against Heliasillyel "importing" followers via Spelljammer ship:



			
				Faiths and Pantheons said:
			
		

> Native and immigrant deities:
> 
> The deities of Toril can be divided into two groups: native deities and immigrant (or interloper) deities. The distinction is largely meaningless, outside of obscure theological debates, for there is absolutely no difference from the perspective of the mortal races of Toril. Native deities are those who arose during or after the founding of this world and are only worshiped here. Immigrant deities are those who were worshiped on other worlds and on other planes before their followers entered Toril via portals and other means.
> 
> Once a deity is accepted into the pantheons of Toril, there is no difference between the two groups, since each immigrant deity has a local aspect, independent of other world-based aspects he or she might possess. For example, although Labelas Enoreth and Clangeddin Silverbeard battled each other during the Time of Troubles on the isle of Ruathym, any enmity streaming from that clash does not extend to other worlds. Likewise, Lolth in some other worlds different from Lolth in Faerun. If in some other worlds adventurers sought out Lolth in her lair and slew her, her local aspect would be unaffected.


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## GlassEye (Jun 30, 2010)

<shrug>  Water under the bridge.  HM allows it, all's good.


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## HolyMan (Jul 7, 2010)

Question:

Since most of you will probably be going your own way in charatcer I was wondering if we should have seperate IC threads for when you are not gathered together as a group?

Was thinking this because it would keep your activity together if you post in The Grey Mist, you might get about two posts per page and it would be all over the place to find what you have done or want done. And two you could post at your own pace, when RL rears it's ugly head you don't need to try and keep up with the group.

Just wondering what everyone's take on this is, the only group thing I am planning is "The Library of Wizunard" a place to maybe up some stats if you find the right books. 

HM


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## GlassEye (Jul 7, 2010)

How would these separate IC threads work when we interact with one another?  On a smaller basis, just two or three of us, for example?

It has advantages and disadvantages; I think I could work it either way.


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## Frozen Messiah (Jul 8, 2010)

I like the idea because Duretep is so far removed from anything that everyone else is doing, with these seperate threads we can talk about things secretly also *shifty eyes* not that i am totally wanting to do that


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## HolyMan (Jul 8, 2010)

It would take little work on your parts as I would be the monitor of the time as it passes and maybe you all can have yearly meetings or something to keep everyone current to each other. 

Let the rest weigh in and we will see, if we do you will each create the thread for your character and name it after your home realm/location in the world.

Then send me a link and I will subscribe being the NPC's that need to be played or monsters you encounter.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Jul 8, 2010)

Um well i usually read trough everything. Sure Heliasillyel is not omnipotent but I like seeing what the others are up to even if i don't metagame it in to Helia's actions.

If we all start our private threads we might as well just write stuff offline, keeping track of 3-4 different threads is too much IMO. For private dealings, there is always Mastercard private messaging.

Can we suggest some NPCs that would head our followings etc? Oh, btw waiting for Shayuri to come back, I think Ubaryia will be giving birth right now


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## GlassEye (Jul 8, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Um well i usually read trough everything. Sure Heliasillyel is not omnipotent but I like seeing what the others are up to even if i don't metagame it in to Helia's actions.
> 
> If we all start our private threads we might as well just write stuff offline, keeping track of 3-4 different threads is too much IMO. For private dealings, there is always Mastercard private messaging.
> 
> Can we suggest some NPCs that would head our followings etc? Oh, btw waiting for Shayuri to come back, I think Ubaryia will be giving birth right now




I also read everything; even if my character isn't involved a major part of my enjoyment comes from reading Duretep's antics, for example.  The major disadvantage of separate threads is that it is alienating.  I would like to do some things individually but I am ultimately here for the interactions.  A disadvantage of remaining in one thread is that HM may lose track of a particular individual's posts if they are all mixed, especially if we are posting big blocks of text.  On the other hand, that may not be an issue at all.  I guess, considering those things, I would probably prefer remaining in one thread.

Considering followers and power levels:  Without followers the game feels like it has stalled a little.  Technically, none of us have the power to create followers but I think we all have methods of getting them so that really isn't a problem as long as you, HM, don't object to us doing whatever it is we need to do.  I started doing this for myself but haven't posted since because I was kinda waiting for your go ahead, HM.  I assume, since you haven't objected, that it is ok for me to continue.  A second thing that has caused me to wait is my impression that the world was incomplete: not yet given plant life.  If that's correct then tOatM needs to stop talking about it and propagate itself!

My original idea was for Ubariya to give birth in the Cradle but she doesn't have the means to return there.  I hope gaining followers will propel us into divine rank 1; that would go a long way to making me feel like my character is an actual deity rather than a souped up epic creature/character.


			
				HolyMan said:
			
		

> ...the only group thing I am planning is "The Library of Wizunard" a place to maybe up some stats if you find the right books.



Why would the Forger put a mystical library on our earth where mortals could find it if it is intended for us?  The idea breaks my sense that our characters are deities rather than super-powerful adventurers.  Shouldn't _we_ be the ones to create things like this?


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## Myth and Legend (Jul 8, 2010)

Oh just to let you guys know, skill synergies advance past the +2 bonus when one gets additional ranks, it's detailed in the DD book.


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## GlassEye (Jul 8, 2010)

Are we using the standard divine rules as in that link Shayuri posted?  If so, there are several things I haven't updated.


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 8, 2010)

In fact The one and the many has already done that with the power of the forger, he covered the world with plants and fungi. He has yet to create animals.


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## Shayuri (Jul 8, 2010)

A few things. First of all: Hi! 

Secondly, we have the means to create followers...sort of. We will require some 'raw materials.' Polymorph Any Object has a permanant duration when used to transform within a 'kingdom,' say, from animal to animal...that's how Silhouette created a werewolf from a fey wolf that she chased here from Faerie. Of course, that's the raw mechanical explanation...the game world will reflect it as something more poetic. 

Sil also has access to Miracle, which can in theory accomplish nearly anything...albeit at a price in xp, and with GM oversight.

More importantly though, these aren't domains everyone has, and so we need some way for everyone to get followers. I can think of a few ways. One would be to simply rule that in these primordial times, the gods have powers to shape the world that go beyond the Rules As Written, and that so long as what we do is in concept, it can be done. The world is, now, as hot steel...ready to be pounded into shape. Once it 'cools,' the powers of the gods contract a bit to match the rules.

Another way would be some kind of quest. Like, Lavaria wants fire giants. She needs to go mingle with the Titans, ferreting out those who are willing to change, and working out a way to convey them to the world's firey center. 

Another way is...unintended accident. Sort of like Silhouette, sometimes the actions of gods have consequences that they themselves don't expect or plan for. Perhaps Duretep discards some of his 'popcorn,' and accidentally creates a fertile species of edible plants, ready to sustain humanoid life. Maybe some fragment of the One/Many drops off and achieves independent sentience, then begins to spread out in colonies of Formians on its own. I already plan for Silhouette to 'accidentally' become the origin of lycanthropy in both its natural and cursed forms.

As for separate threads, I think that could work, with some effort. It would save some headaches as we don't have to follow multiple,  mutually independent stories through one thread. It makes interacting a bit trickier...but in general if we interact we'll either be in the Grey Mist thread, or one of us 'guesting' in the thread of someone else....so it could work. Lets just keep posting in OOC to make sure we all know what page we're all on. 

I agree that the Library, as the creation of the Forger, is a bit much. Like the city, it steals a bit of our thunder if the Forger does too much. Ideally, he's some primal force of creation, speaking seldom and seldom seen. He's known through his works. The Library can still work though, as a mystery. There could be rumors of a place...perhaps even an entire plane...where knowledge is stored. It could even be a sort of "elemental" plane of Knowledge, so vast and complex that it's all but useless unless you know -exactly- what you're looking for. Not the creation of any known agency, it simply is. The Platonic ideal of "libraryness" sort of.

Alternatively, you could introduce NPC gods.

Oh! I had an idea too.

Confronting the whole, "We are gods, what can challenge us," angle. What if sometimes we play not our deities, but rather divine chosen champions? Gods often choose to act through intermediaries. Especially as we ascend divine ranks, having less powerful (but also less risky to use) champions and avatars will become necessary. Then, if we want to plunder some library, we wouldn't go personally...we'd send Moktar The Bold...perhaps a demigod in his own right, but not invested with divine ranks. Or whatever. The idea needs some fleshing out, but just in general...

Whuddya think?


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 8, 2010)

I think that it's a very long post which I find myself unable to ready whole. 

JK, will read it later. =P


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## Myth and Legend (Jul 8, 2010)

Aye once we grow in Divine Ranks we can make Proxies. Avatars are created via SDA. Creating followers? I'd take all of the above


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## GlassEye (Jul 8, 2010)

Thanks, Voda, I had forgotten that tOatM had already taken care of plant life.  Animal life can come later and some now exists in the oceans anyway from when the glacier melted.

Shayuri, lots of good ideas there!

The 'Primordial Age' would be a great way to let us do some things that are usually limited to more powerful deities without boosting our rank way up beyond where HM wants us to be.  This limitation to what we can do has been a source of dissatisfaction for me; I would readily embrace the idea that our power lessens as the primordial age ends for the ability to do a few cool (and IMO necessary) things now.  Once we get more toys to play with we won't really need the powers of creation as much (though I still think Divine Rank 1 necessary to play even remotely competent deities; this inability to transport my character to her own home without using mundane travel is a bit annoying).

Barring that, we all still seem to have methods to come up with followers.  I don't have access to Polymorph or Miracle so that won't work for me but if it gets Silhouette followers or a portal to the Realm of the Fey where you can bring in followers then great!  Ubariya has the souls to birth that she has carried from her origin world, TOatM can propagate Mini-One's, Heliasillyel can unload her followers from her spelljammer, Lavaria can toast some titans into fire giants, and Duretep can spin some out of dreamstuff, I guess (or however you all have planned to get your followers).

And, I don't object to playing a follower/champion at times.


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## GlassEye (Jul 11, 2010)

Two things:

1) There _are_ reasons why the things Ubariya gave birth to are the way they are (besides 'that's the way I wanted it,' though that is also true).  Just pointing this out because certain events could make for some interesting complications in the future.

2) If anyone wishes to take advantage of Ubariya's birthing and have her give birth to something specific that they want to see in our world but don't have a real reason/method to getting it then feel free to use my character.  I hereby activate your remote controls and grant you all permission to write Ubariya an extended birth scene if you wish.  Note that Ubariya is a goddess of the transmigration of souls and so the bodily forms don't have to be sentient, they just have to contain a soul/spirit of some sort...


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## GlassEye (Jul 12, 2010)

fyi, banged up my elbow biking (or rather falling off my bike) & can only type w/1 hand so my posting will be light for 1-2 weeks.  U. will use summons & 'nest' in the city for a bit.


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 12, 2010)

Ouch! That must have hurted like hell! Hope you are feeling better soon.


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## GlassEye (Jul 13, 2010)

Thanks!


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## GlassEye (Jul 20, 2010)

I think we need a jump-start.  Not exactly sure how to go about doing it, though.  If you got ideas, post 'em.


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## HolyMan (Jul 22, 2010)

My ideal is for everyone to finish off the current dialogue and post your characters heading towards their "home".

No need to rush but would like to see if we can get this all done by August 1st

Huh? why August 1st what's so special about that? Well I think it is about time for a little trip into the future for are gods.

On August 1st I wish everyone to post something special. In IC it will be a year to the day that the group left The Grey Mist and became trapped on their new world. During which you may post whatever you like about what you did during that time but a few things to note.

a) The Forger has not been heard of at all in the year.
b) everyone will lvl up and should now be 3/3 in their chosen classes
c) Everyone should have formed some kind of following and have enough followers to achieve DR 1 status
d) Bet your not reading this because of what c says LOL 

OK I'm not sure what else but that is the basics and I'm sure it is plenty to work with for now.

HM


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## GlassEye (Jul 22, 2010)

That's cool, HM.  I wouldn't mind a bit longer than a year but a year is good, too.

I do plan on responding to Voda Vosa's very nice post but I've been really strapped for free time lately.


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## GlassEye (Jul 26, 2010)

Ok, it looks like all conversations have wound down and we've divided up to head to our respective realms.  Since we seem to be done _now_ how 'bout we move up that August 1 deadline thing and post our passage of time (one year?) over the next couple of days?


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## HolyMan (Jul 26, 2010)

if everyone is ready let me know here and i will post some fluff that will show the passage of time then and all the "year later posts" could follow.

Aug 1st was a shoot for date not carved in stone.

HM


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 26, 2010)

I'm done. I think I could drop a post later today before the passage...


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## GlassEye (Jul 26, 2010)

HolyMan said:


> Aug 1st was a shoot for date not carved in stone.




I figured as much.  I'm ready btw.


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## Rathan (Jul 28, 2010)

I think I got a good post in on my plans for the next year setting up the other deities for death and failure hehe... I'm ready....


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## GlassEye (Jul 28, 2010)

HM, do we add levels 5 & 6 and divine rank one now or at some time in the future?  I haven't looked over what we'll end up gaining but the extra abilities (particularly the salient divine ability) may make a difference in what we are able to accomplish over the year.


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## HolyMan (Jul 29, 2010)

You should have gained them over the course of the year so maybe you have had the ability for 2 or 3 months or maybe 5 months up to you.

You could have just gained your DR stats and are starting to use your abilities as of the post. Total up tp you.

Everyone make sure to let me know when you are done lvling up so I can see what abilities you have aquired.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Jul 30, 2010)

OK to summarize what we gain (as noted in Heliasilylel's sheet):

lvl 3 of two classes. Divine Rank 1. Max HP for everything. We have gained an attribute bonus last time we have leveleed up in our classes. BTW I thought we had agreed to gain +2 ability bonuses equal to our divine rank? Otherwise I don't know how we'll reach the ~50 to every stat most deities have.

What I added per this table which is the 3.5 variant of the DD book:

Class levels, abilites, spells, HP. We gain 2 epic feats.
*Two Salient Divine Abilities.*
Divine rank as *natural armor bonus to AC* (13+DR), so 14 for now.
*Damage Reduction* 15/epic
*Fire resistance* 5 + divine rank, so 6 for now.
*Spell Resistance* 32 + divine rank, so 33 for now.
*Immunities* (Heliasillyel has Fire by char creation): Fire, Electricity, Cold, Acid, Polymorph,  Petrification, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage,  Mind-Affecting Effects, Disease, Poison, Stunning, Sleep, Paralysis,  Death Effects, Disintegration, Not subject to death from massive damage. Immortal.
Divine Rank as a *Divine bonus to attack*. Do not fail on a natural 1.
Divine Rank as a *Divine bonus to saves*. Do not fail on a natural 1.
Divine Rank as a *Divine bonus to skill checks, ability checks, caster level checks and turning checks*.
*Domain Powers* usable DR/day times or more if stated in the description. For those requiring Cleric levels use your DR level instead if you don't have Cleric as a class.
Save DC for our Domain spells is +1 (for DR 1)
*Senses extended* to 1 mile around her for DR 1.
*Remote Sensing* (2 locations)
*Remote Sense Blocking* (2 locations + self)
*Portfolio Sense*
*Automatic Actions* (2 free actions/round)
*Create magic items* related to portfolio up to 4,500 gp.
*Divine Aura* (10 ft.)
*Grant Spells*
*Spontaneous Casting* (for divine spells we can grant if we have Cleric levels)
A deity of rank 1 or higher can* understand, speak, and read any language*, including nonverbal languages. The deity can *speak directly to any beings* within one mile of itself per divine rank.
*Remote Communication*
*Greater Teleport at will* (CL 20, self + 100 pounds of objects per divine rank)
*Special Familiar*

I have a question regarding Automatic Quicken Spell. This is an Epic feat, intended to be taken 3 times for maximum effect. It presumes that it is taken by a lvl 21 spellcaster and thus one automatically meets the (cast lvl 9 spells) requirement. However, Heliasillyel will be able to cast lvl 9 spells at Sorcerer level 18 which is towards the end of the game, and won't get the option of spending 3 feats to get the required effect (namely, casting quickened lvl 9 spells instantly). What is to be done then?

On Alter Reality: it has an easy requirement and is one of the best SDAs. I assume everyone will take it? Anyway, Alter Reality will enable us to have every beneficial spell cast on us and made permanent as the rest requirements are in minutes and thus in several month's times we can have every wizard/cleric/druid/ranger/paladin/assassin/you name it spell cast on us to gain the maximum benefit. Should i start digging trough all the spells and list the benefits in my statblock for you HM?


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## Shayuri (Jul 30, 2010)

Er...why do we gain 2 epic feats? We went from level 24 to level 26. We don't get even one epic feat until level 27...and even then we only get one.

Similarly, why 2 salient divine powers? I thought we only got one of those per Divine Rank we had...meaning right now, we get one. Or did I miss more house rules?


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 30, 2010)

The One and the Many updated:

Changes:
Ability points allocated to Dex
Class levels, abilites, spells, HP. We gain 2 epic feats (Reflect Arrows and Exceptional Deflection).
Two Salient Divine Abilities: Increased spell resistance and Divine earth mastery
Divine rank as natural armor bonus to AC (13+DR), so 14 for now.
Damage Reduction 15/epic
Fire resistance 5 + divine rank, so 6 for now.
Spell Resistance 32 + divine rank + Increased spell resistance, so 53 for now.
Immunities:  Electricity, Cold, Acid, Polymorph, Petrification, Energy Drain, Ability Drain, Ability Damage, Mind-Affecting Effects, Disease, Poison, Stunning, Sleep, Paralysis, Death Effects, Disintegration, Not subject to death from massive damage. Immortal.
Divine Rank as a Divine bonus to attack. Do not fail on a natural 1.
Divine Rank as a Divine bonus to saves. Do not fail on a natural 1.
Divine Rank as a Divine bonus to skill checks, ability checks, caster level checks and turning checks.
Domain Powers usable DR/day times or more if stated in the description. For those requiring Cleric levels use your DR level instead if you don't have Cleric as a class.
Save DC for our Domain spells is +1 (for DR 1)
Senses extended to 1 mile around him for DR 1.
Remote Sensing (2 locations)
Remote Sense Blocking (2 locations + self)
Portfolio Sense
Automatic Actions (2 free actions/round)
Create magic items related to portfolio up to 4,500 gp.
Divine Aura (10 ft.)
Grant Spells
Spontaneous Casting (for divine spells we can grant if we have Cleric levels)
A deity of rank 1 or higher can understand, speak, and read any language, including nonverbal languages. The deity can speak directly to any beings within one mile of itself per divine rank.
Remote Communication
Greater Teleport at will (CL 20, self + 100 pounds of objects per divine rank)

The One and the Many


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## GlassEye (Jul 30, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Er...why do we gain 2 epic feats? We went from level 24 to level 26. We don't get even one epic feat until level 27...and even then we only get one.
> 
> Similarly, why 2 salient divine powers? I thought we only got one of those per Divine Rank we had...meaning right now, we get one. Or did I miss more house rules?




I have no clue about the epic feats.

The two salient divine powers I can explain.  Deities gain one salient divine power per rank (one in our case).  Demigods gain one bonus power in addition to those gained by rank.


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## Myth and Legend (Jul 30, 2010)

Glass Eye is correct regarding the SDAs.

On the feats: It was my understanding, that this is treated like a Gestalt game. Since our ECL is 6 we are eligible for two feats (i had neglected to get one last time, as well as the attribute bonus). HM said we get regular save/bab progression but we get Epic feats if we qualify for them. 

I actually got two regular feats as they are needed for some SDAs later on.

Another note: Alter Reality can replicate Wish, which can be used to grant us +5 inherent bonuses to each ability (same as reading the appropriate tomes). I don't have DD with me right now but if memory serves deities get several thousand xp per week to "burn" on spells (and Alter Reality subsequently). Can someone provide said information here? 

It's not really needed if we treat Alter Reality RAW, but I still want  to run it by HM and the rest of you, and I'll write in the attribute  bonuses in Heliasillyel's sheet, as well as use the rest of the XP to make some magical trinkets via Wish/item creation.

I really need to know whether I should count in every beneficial spell effect in the SRD on top of Heliasilyel's sheet, because she would have made them all permanent via Alter Reality for sure. She'd also have set up Contingencies and other magical tricks.

Also, I'm planning on providing a writeup on this alternate Solarianderriel, freshly created and unpopulated, and how her followers come in via Speljammer ship. Should i provide a write up for the main NPC leading the other worshipers? If so, how many Class levels do we get to play with? What wealth, and how many can be brought in? I was thinking that three ships, bringing 500 or so Sun Elves each would be a good start for this expedition. They'd settle both on Solarianderriel and on the mountain that leads up to her realm (but is still on the Material plane).


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## Voda Vosa (Jul 30, 2010)

Just one question. Why is this alter reality so powerful and with no DR requisites? I personally would have made it at least DR 6


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## Shayuri (Aug 1, 2010)

Voda, I completely agree. The ability to Wish at will would have made a better rank 20 ability, since it means absolute mastery over reality...

But oh well. 

As for epic feats, I don't think that's how feat progressions work even in a gestalt. As a gestalt Druid/Shadowdancer, I'd be able to pick any epic feat that I could qualify for with those two classes. I wouldn't get a feat for EACH class though.Just like I don't add skill points for each, I only get the best of the two per level (and all their class skills). 

Reading the description of gestalts from the SRD, it doesn't list any altered mechanics for feats. I interpret that to mean that feats work for gestalts identically to how they work for normal characters.

Edit: Ah ha! There's a mention of feats at the end of the first paragraph under the section called Balancing Gestalt Characters: _"Gestalt characters who try to fulfill two party roles (melee fighter and spellcaster, for example) find they must split their feat choices, ability score improvements, and gear selection between their two functions."_


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## GlassEye (Aug 1, 2010)

We're not gestalt; we just advance two levels whenever HM says we go up a level.  And if I remember correctly we're not using standard progression for epic characters but following the progression as if we were characters level 1-20.  So, if I'm right (feel free to chime in here HM if I've got it wrong), then we should have 7 regular feats from our 20 HD of Outsider and then three feats from levels 1, 3 & 6 which could be epic feats.


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## Shayuri (Aug 1, 2010)

I...see...

But even then, we wouldn't get twice the number of feats. We'd just get feats on the normal scale. So we'd have 26 hit dice now, and next "level" (level 27) we'd get another epic feat.

I need to go back and make sure I didn't use gestalt rules now, otherwise I'm shorting myself hit points and skill points.


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## HolyMan (Aug 2, 2010)

GlassEye said:


> We're not gestalt; we just advance two levels whenever HM says we go up a level. And if I remember correctly we're not using standard progression for epic characters but following the progression as if we were characters level 1-20. So, if I'm right (feel free to chime in here HM if I've got it wrong), then we should have 7 regular feats from our 20 HD of Outsider and then three feats from levels 1, 3 & 6 which could be epic feats.




Ok if I chime in and your correct,  

Everything above is right and should be found in the character gene portion if the RG, I think been a while since I looked there.

HM


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2010)

Question. Where do you want us to post the stories of the gods over the course of the year? In the IC thread, or would that be too distracting?


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## HolyMan (Aug 2, 2010)

No you should post them there (and maybe link that post in your character sheet under background and so I have a way to find it easily).

I posted up so as to seperate the what you did for the year posts. So please go right ahead when you are all ready.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 2, 2010)

> Most deities are 20 HD outsiders with 30 to 50 character levels as well.



 We started out gaining levels in one class, but HM decided it's too slow (encouraged by my whining i suppose ), so he gave us dual class progression.

Think of this as getting to level 40 but twice as fast. If one would get to lvl 40 the normal way, they would be entitled to all their feats and ability bonuses. For example, from DD, Hermes is a Rogue 20 / Wizard 20. His feats as listed in the book are:



> Alertness, Ambidexterity, Brew Potion, Combat Reflexes, Craft Rod, Craft Staff, Craft Wand, Craft Wondrous Item, Dodge, Empower Spell, Expertise, Fleet of Foot, Greater Two-Weapon Fighting, Improved Initiative, Improved Two-Weapon Fighting, Jack of All Trades, Maximize Spell, Mobility, Quick Draw, Quicken Spell, Run, Scribe Scroll, Spring Attack, Superior Expertise, Two-Weapon Fighting.




His skills are:



> Alchemy +45, Appraise +55, Balance +59, Bluff +65, Concentration +42, Craft (leatherworking) +45, Diplomacy +83, Disable Device +55, Escape Artist +55, Gather Information +45, Hide +65, Intimidate +37, Intuit Direction +33, Jump +36, Knowledge (arcana) +55, Knowledge (geography) +65, Knowledge (history) +65, Knowledge (local) +55, Knowledge (nobility and royalty) +35, Knowledge (religion) +35, Knowledge (the planes) +65, Listen +55, Move Silently +85, Open Lock +75, Perform +35, Pick Pocket +79, Profession (guide) +63, Profession (scribe) +63, Scry +45, Search +55, Sense Motive +53, Spellcraft +45, Spot +45, Tumble +67, Wilderness Lore +43.




So yeah, that's way more then what we'd get if we follow the "one class only gets feats/ability scores/skills" rule.

As such if I'm correct on this rule (HM has to say so), we sort of missed out on our two first level feats simply because we started with single class per level and then switched to two classes per level. Effectively we are getting our level 1 and level 21 (in another class) at the same time, am i right?

On the XP pool deities get:



> As characters of around 60th level, deities can freely pay even large XP costs. Consider that a deity has a safe cushion of around 30,000 XP it can use every week for creating magic items and casting spells with experience point costs. What happens when a deity casts miracle? Rather than imploring another deity to perform some task, the deity simply draws from its own divine power. It pays the experience point cost with hardly a second thought, and creates the effect it desires.



 That's plenty to Wish for all the stats to get +5, and make some trinkets to boot. Any rulings on that HM? And also I need you to say what do you think of Alter Reality and the way I'll use it.


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## Shayuri (Aug 2, 2010)

Okay, I was wrong about the 'one class only' thing, but only because I was thinking of them as being parallel advancement, like a gestalt. Really all it is is normal multiclassing. But that doesn't entitle us to extra feats. We just advance 2 levels at a time instead of 1.

Thus, we get feats at the normal progression. 1, 3, 6, 9, 12, 15, 18...those come from our Outsider hit dice. Then 21 and 24, our epic feats, come from our class levels. We just got 25 and 26...but there's no feats there. Next time we level, we'll get 27 (feat) and 28 (ability score increase).

That's my current understanding of the rules as we're following them (so far). If that's wrong, HM please let me know.

As for xp pools, we're not level 60 yet...but perhaps that just means our exp pool is smaller, rather than wholly absent?


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## Voda Vosa (Aug 2, 2010)

I think that a dispelling will end with most of your permanent spells. Just a thought.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 4, 2010)

Shayuri: I think It's more like lvl 1 and lvl 21 at the same time, feat progression is as per non-epic chars (so every 3 levels). But really It's HM's call. Overall I'd be oK if we do a single class progression to level 40, so long as we level up every week or so.

Yes a smaller pool might work.

VV: A sufficiently high dispell will end them, though honestly it's not easy beating Heliasillyel in Initative, especially since I'm gunning for Supreme Initiative.

Plus it's better to have those spells then not to have them.


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## HolyMan (Aug 4, 2010)

I always thought of the 20 HD of outsider as your race and then you would advance in your classes from levels as normal. But due to your race you can quailfy for EPIC feats and such.

So normal feat progression 3rd, 6th etc., and ability boost, and BAB.

We figured gods didn't level like mortals and gain two seperate class levels everytime they advance instead of one. Would explain thoose high class levels they have.

HM


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 4, 2010)

So we are now 3/3, which means 4 feats and 1 attribute bonus correct? Also HM, what of the attribute bonuses with divine rank? Any ruling on that?


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## HolyMan (Aug 4, 2010)

I have no ideal what rule you are refering to could you please point it out for me.

Thanks'

HM


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## GlassEye (Aug 4, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> So we are now 3/3, which means 4 feats and 1 attribute bonus correct? Also HM, what of the attribute bonuses with divine rank? Any ruling on that?




It would be three feats (gained at class levels 1, 3 & 6, see HM's previous post #866) and one attribute bonus.


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## GlassEye (Aug 10, 2010)

Sorry it's taking me so long.  Ubariya is mostly updated (just lacking feats, skills, & SDA's, lol).  The hard part is figuring out what she would be capable of doing and what she would do...  I hope to have a post up soon but this week is very busy for me.


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## Voda Vosa (Aug 11, 2010)

HM, have you checked TOATM?


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## GlassEye (Aug 11, 2010)

SRD said:
			
		

> Spontaneous Casting: A deity of rank 1 or higher who has levels in a divine spellcasting class can spontaneously cast any spell it can grant.




Maybe I'm being thick-headed.  What exactly does this mean?


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 11, 2010)

Basically any printed Cleric spell + all your domain spells are usable as if you were a Sorcerer who picked them.


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## HolyMan (Aug 11, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> HM, have you checked TOATM?




Voda Vosa way of saying my character is done and read to be approved. 

HM


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2010)

Myth and Legend said:


> Basically any printed Cleric spell + all your domain spells are usable as if you were a Sorcerer who picked them.




IF you have levels in a divine casting class.

For example, Silhouette is a level 3 druid. She can use her druid spellcasting slots to cast any druid spell (of the levels she has access to) without preparing them in advance. She's sort of a "druid sorceror."

If you don't have levels in a class that can cast divine spells, this feature doesn't affect you, because you don't have divine spell slots with which to cast divine spells spontaneously.


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## GlassEye (Aug 11, 2010)

Ok.  Ubariya is a Cleric 3.  She can grant cleric, ranger, & domain spells so she could spontaneously cast those cleric, ranger, or domain spells as her cleric level spells?  I suppose this is one of those odd quirks of the way we are advancing our class levels in that she can grant spells but not cast them herself yet.  Normally a deity would have 20 levels of a divine spellcasting class and this oddity wouldn't surface.  It's kinda weird but I'm ok with it.


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2010)

She can spontaneously cast cleric spells, because she has cleric levels.

She can grant ranger spells, but not cast them, because she hasn't got ranger levels.

And yes, you could meet a priest of yours who can cast spells you can't.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 11, 2010)

We'll we're trying to balance things out and make HM's job barely manageble instead of impossible. Kelemvor was a non-Epic NPC prior to his ascension to Godhood, at which point he got 30 or so character levels in an instant.

What bothers me is that this is supposed to be a dual progression but it's not, and we will end up lelvel ing twice as fast but with 1/2 the actual feats and ability bonuses we are entitled to (because we would get those if we went 1-20 and then another 1-20 instead of 2 - 40)


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## Shayuri (Aug 11, 2010)

We're not getting half the feats and ability bonuses we're entitled to.

Look at Silhouette, she's a level 26 character, though her ECL is higher due to the divine template and so on. She has all the feats and ability score adjustments a level 26 character is entitled to. It doesn't matter if you get those 6 levels over 20 one at a time, or two at a time. You still wind up at 26.


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## Myth and Legend (Aug 11, 2010)

DOH right I got it now, we get the feats per character level not class level..


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## GlassEye (Aug 11, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> She can spontaneously cast cleric spells, because she has cleric levels.
> 
> *She can grant ranger spells, but not cast them, because she hasn't got ranger levels.*
> 
> And yes, you could meet a priest of yours who can cast spells you can't.




I don't think I agree with the bolded part above.  Druid spells and paladin are specifically called out as needing levels in druid or paladin in order to grant them.  No such limitation is placed on ranger spells.  I believe if I can grant it, I can cast it (in my clerical slots, of course).

I get all the rest of it now.  Thanks.


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## GlassEye (Oct 15, 2010)

I think we need to discuss where this game is heading.  We seem to have lost Rathan and Frozen Messiah and so those deities best suited as adversaries and plotters have essentially been relegated to the role of NPC.  That leaves four of us who have generally gotten along well and are willing to work together for the benefit of the world.  Is that enough for a game?

Whatever happens, I'm not satisfied with continuing the game as it is now.  We need more life/activity/adventure, something!  Or we need to recognize that we've gone as far as it's going to go and just end it.  At this point I'm not sure I'm willing to put in the effort needed to rejuvenate this game.

I would like to know what you all want to do.


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## Shayuri (Oct 15, 2010)

Tend to agree. Silhouette isn't really an antagonist. She gets up to mischief, but isn't really malicious.

We need Stuff To Do. Complications.


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## Voda Vosa (Oct 15, 2010)

Yes, problems. I was thinking, since the start of this game, to turn on all of the other deities, using the knowledge you so gently gave to the tree of memory against you. Hey! Don't say you didn't saw it coming! A hive minded creature that wants to assimilate everything, it makes perfect sense. =)


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## GlassEye (Oct 17, 2010)

Voda Vosa said:


> Yes, problems. I was thinking, since the start of this game, to turn on all of the other deities, using the knowledge you so gently gave to the tree of memory against you. Hey! Don't say you didn't saw it coming! A hive minded creature that wants to assimilate everything, it makes perfect sense. =)




That's a good idea and we could each do something similar.  However, I'm tired of always pressing HM to do something with this game.  It's not a role I enjoy, I feel like a jerk when I do it, and I shouldn't feel like I have to do it.  In light of that, I think I would rather end it amicably now than sit here in limbo any longer.  I've enjoyed gaming with you all and I've looked forward to being surprised by your ideas and character actions; hopefully we can game together again in the future.


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## Shayuri (Oct 18, 2010)

Hm. Well, I'd hoped to give HM some time to respond, but if that's how it is, that's how it is.

Good gaming with y'all. Have fun out there!


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## Myth and Legend (Oct 18, 2010)

In HM's defense, I think he didn't know what he was getting into when he volinteered to DM this game. He is the type of DM who likes low-power, low optimization games that are very plot driven.

In Off To War it rarely makes a difference what our characters say, the NPCs still do mostly what they want. But one can't run a Gods game on a railroad track, by virtue of us being out of control by any means that are not ultimately destructive.

A DR1 deity absolutely trumps anything less then a level 50 Wizard etc. The only way to actually threaten our characters would be via Deities with a higher DR. But that means they simply trounce us, as SDAs are the name of the game here, and a Greater Deity can pretty much wipe the floor with us.

In essence, there is no way to do it the good old fashioned way, to which HM is accustomed. He can't give is CR appropriate encounters, because we are immune to everything and can cast any spell we want. He can't threaten us or give us a challange without splattering us.

This game has to have unconventional challanges and a well thought out plot, but HM didn't know this back when Sunking went MIA and we needed a DM. He thought that we are around ECL 20 and that throwing some CR30 monsters will be a fun challange, but when we wrecked that Frost Wyrm in the surprise round he got dismayed.

The power scale went completely out the window when i stated that any God with Alter Reality will have every spell persisted on him + an Antimagic Field that does not affect his own spells (this is absolutely rules legal and practically implied in the text).

The DM for this game has to RP the followers and the rival Deities. We need to impress the mortal population and possibly meddle in their everyday life. 

Anyway I was happy to play with you guys. If you want me to, i can give DM ing this game a shot, but i warn you that i can't promise frequent updates, sometimes i go MIA. We will be short on players though, as we will be losing the Sun Goddess, unless i rp her as a NPC.


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## Voda Vosa (Oct 18, 2010)

You could? Well I must say I'm enjoying your game MyL. I'm still eager to start the other two, so if this messess with them I'll say no, but if you think you can handle it, I'll be charmed to play.


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## GlassEye (Oct 18, 2010)

Shayuri said:


> Hm. Well, I'd hoped to give HM some time to respond






Myth and Legend said:


> In HM's defense, I think he didn't know what he was getting into when he volinteered to DM this game. <snipping good points>




I understand all that.  That just makes communication all the more vital so that we know what's going on and can maybe make suggestions of what to do/how to handle things.  I don't mean any of this as a personal attack, but I need more DM input than what we've received.

Myth, I appreciate the offer to continue running the game but at this point I think I would prefer to find a fresh start in a new game somewhere.  Maybe I'll run a game myself.


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