# Star Trek: Enterprise -[Spoiler Talk]- Stardate:509240



## Truth Seeker (Apr 29, 2005)

*In a Mirror, Darkly, Part II* _Series and Season Finale_: *3 of 6.*
After using the Defiant to repel a Tholian attack, the power-hungry Archer and Enterprise crew set about using this advanced ship to seize control of all of Earth's Terran Empire. As Archer takes full command of the Defiant and reviews the alternate history of Starfleet, his duplicitous lover Hoshi, a traitorous T'Pol and a reptilian Gorn stowaway hatch schemes of their own.

*Cast:* Scott Bakula as Jonathan Archer. John Billingsley as Dr. Phlox. Jolene Blalock as T'Pol. Dominic Keating as Malcolm Reed. Anthony Montgomery as Travis Mayweather. Linda Park as Hoshi Sato. Connor Trinneer as Charles "Trip" Tucker III. 

*Guest Cast:* Gary Graham as Soval. Gregory Itzin as Admiral Black. Derek Magyar as Kelby. John Mahon as Admiral Gardner. Pat Healy as Alien. 

*Creative Staff*: Director: Marvin V. Rush. Teleplay By: Michael Sussman. Story By: Manny Coto.

Well, sounds like a lot of backstabbing...but for those who are in the New York Metro area, will have to see it on Saturday. *UPN *did it again...Baseball is on tonight.

And by the way, today is the last seaon and series finale of Andromeda, for those who are interested...


----------



## Darth K'Trava (Apr 30, 2005)

Got to see it tonight. No basesball crap here!   

It was a great pt 2 to go with the great pt 1 I saw last Sat (had a D&D game on Fri night and nearly forgot it if it hadn't been for a friend of mine reminding me about it). 

Talk about alot of twists, turns and great homage to the sets of old.


----------



## Dagger75 (Apr 30, 2005)

I for one welcome our new Empiress.


----------



## Crothian (Apr 30, 2005)

It wasn't as good as the first part but still really good.


----------



## driver8 (Apr 30, 2005)

Id watch it but for some reason Americas Top Model is on instead..unsure if our local affiliate just flip fliopped the lineup or if its not going to be on..bleh.


----------



## Napftor (Apr 30, 2005)

Crothian said:
			
		

> It wasn't as good as the first part but still really good.




Exactly what I thought.


----------



## Greylock (Apr 30, 2005)

Nice seeing Hoshi and Travis come to the forefront, even if Travis still doesn't get any lines.


----------



## DaveMage (Apr 30, 2005)

Very fun episode (though I did like part I a tad more too).

 

I'm a bit depressed, though, that we won't see the Defiant anymore...great stuff.


----------



## Mouseferatu (Apr 30, 2005)

DaveMage said:
			
		

> I'm a bit depressed, though, that we won't see the Defiant anymore...great stuff.




Absolutely. Seeing an old-style Constitution-class starship in action--I mean _real_ action--was just amazing. And I loved the fact that every special effect was modern in quality, but old-fashioned in design. (For instance, they didn't use the "sparkly" torpedos that have been a mainstay since ST: The Motion Picture. And all the sounds were spot on.)

It convinced me that if Paramount really wants to do a new Trek series, and do it _right_, they need to set it back during the era of the Original Series, but follow the exploits of a different ship and crew.

Or at least, I know it's something _I'd_ love to see. I may be in the distinct minority, but I'd much rather that than anything set pre-Kirk or post-Voyager. And since I'm the one wishing, I get to focus on what I want, and ignore what you want. 



(They also need to get someone other than B&B to run the show, but that's a given.)


----------



## Sir Brennen (Apr 30, 2005)

I wonder if the writers intended to revisit the Empress an the Mirror Universe in future episodes, before they found out they were cancelled.  How that would fit into the continuity of both universes, I don't know, but that's the impression I got at the end of the ep.


----------



## Viking Bastard (Apr 30, 2005)

In one word: Awesome.

It kicked all kinds of behind!  It was so weird. So much happened in the episode. Yet 
it said 'Enterprise' in the credits. Funny how Travis, Archer and Hoshi were that much 
more interesting characters than in the usual universe. Travis was really kewl, even 
if he looked kinda gay. 

And the TOS uniforms came out better than expected.


----------



## drothgery (Apr 30, 2005)

Dagger75 said:
			
		

> I for one welcome our new Empiress.




x2

Fun two-parter, but like someone said last week, dropping these in the "last episodes of Enterprise" countdown seems a bit wrong somehow.


----------



## Richards (May 1, 2005)

It definitely wasn't as good an episode as last week's, and I was really kind of let down at the ending - actually, it didn't really feel like there was an ending, just an "oh, our 60 minutes are up, that's it then."

Johnathan


----------



## Greylock (May 1, 2005)

The only thing that bothered me was that everyone looked REALLY fat wearing those old Star Fleet uniforms. Fat and squat. And the Defiant seemed a little, I dunno, stretched.




Then, talking to my dad a little while ago, he suggested the "crawler" at the bottom of the screen announcing thunderstorms might have been a factor.   At least they didn't preempt the show.


----------



## Silver Moon (May 1, 2005)

For the most part I liked it.   I think they could have skipped the whole Gorn thing, that was an unnecessary distaction.    Great ending too.


----------



## Orius (May 1, 2005)

Viking Bastard said:
			
		

> I
> It kicked all kinds of behind!  It was so weird. So much happened in the episode. Yet
> it said 'Enterprise' in the credits. Funny how Travis, Archer and Hoshi were that much
> more interesting characters than in the usual universe.




It's kind of in keeping with the original "Mirror, Mirror".  The lieutenant in the mirror universe who was Kirk's lover and who killed his opponents behind his back was just another minor crew member in the normal Trek universe.  I sort of liked the "Empress Sato" bit at the end.

And when they were hunting down the Gorn I knew Reed was going to get hurt.  Why? Three reasons:

1. He's a security officer.
2. He separated from the captain.
3. He was wearing a red shirt.  

I'm surprised Phlox gave him a 50% chance of survival.  Everyone knows red shirting is invariably fatal.

The first part ws more fun than this episode, but it gives us some insight into the development of the mirror universe.  It made sense for mirror Archer to die at the end; given his xenophobia he couldn't be Emperor because that would likely rule out mirror Spock.  Besides, mirror Archer was a chump.  I wouldn't be surprised if mirror Hoshi erased that database too.


----------



## Red Spire Press (May 1, 2005)

While I agree that the timing of this 2 parter may seem odd with so few episodes left, I would have to say they were by far my favorite episodes of Enterprise yet. It's amazing what a little darkness can do for a Trek series.  And, as stated above, it was truly excellent to see a Constitution class ship in the thick of it.


----------



## Richards (May 1, 2005)

Oh, another thing I wanted to mention about this episode - it was pretty cool seeing that bearded Vulcan (I can't remember his name) - he was the mirror universe equivalent of the Vulcan who was there when the Earth Embassy was blown up on Vulcan, wasn't he?

(And it seemed odd seeing that beard on him, until I remembered what mirror-Spock looked like.)  

Johnathan


----------



## Felon (May 1, 2005)

OK, help me out here. I don't watch the series normally, but now I'm intrigued. The series finale is a six-parter that takes place in the evil Trek universe? Is it supposed to even involve the Enterprise crew proper?


----------



## Cthulhudrew (May 1, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> OK, help me out here. I don't watch the series normally, but now I'm intrigued. The series finale is a six-parter that takes place in the evil Trek universe? Is it supposed to even involve the Enterprise crew proper?




There are still three or four episodes left until the series finale, and the rest have nothing to do with the mirror universe. Just these last two (a two-parter), but they don't have anything to do with the normal Enterprise universe at all, except for some ties to TOS continuity, and expanding the mirror universe canon.


----------



## Felon (May 1, 2005)

Cthulhudrew said:
			
		

> There are still three or four episodes left until the series finale, and the rest have nothing to do with the mirror universe. Just these last two (a two-parter), but they don't have anything to do with the normal Enterprise universe at all, except for some ties to TOS continuity, and expanding the mirror universe canon.




Well, I saw Truth Seeker's notation "3 of 6" and I'm still not sure what that's a reference to.

I did just finish watching the two episodes and enjoyed them. Why do you say it's a two-parter? It's continued next week. Stop confusing me, folks 

Good episodes. Nice-looking women too. Did the good T'Pol ever drop the androgynous haircut?


----------



## Richards (May 1, 2005)

I think Truth Seeker just meant that was the third episode of the six that were left before the cancellation of the series.

Next week is the beginning of another two-parter dealing with Colonel Greene (a "humans only on Earth" type), and then we have the final episode.  And then that's it.

Johnathan


----------



## Felon (May 1, 2005)

Just watched the final scene again. That was a coda? Meh. Well, my bad.


----------



## wingsandsword (May 1, 2005)

Sir Brennen said:
			
		

> I wonder if the writers intended to revisit the Empress an the Mirror Universe in future episodes, before they found out they were cancelled.  How that would fit into the continuity of both universes, I don't know, but that's the impression I got at the end of the ep.




Maybe Hoshi was supposed to be the first President of the Federation?  Or maybe she would shoot up in the ranks in the next few years and become a hero in the Romulan Wars and be some great Starship captain who turned the tide of the war or something.  Yeah, a bit of a stretch for the regular universe version, but it would make an interesting Mirror.


----------



## Felon (May 1, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> It convinced me that if Paramount really wants to do a new Trek series, and do it _right_, they need to set it back during the era of the Original Series, but follow the exploits of a different ship and crew. Or at least, I know it's something _I'd_ love to see. I may be in the distinct minority, but I'd much rather that than anything set pre-Kirk or post-Voyager.




Hell, set a new series in the mirror universe.

Call it _Star Trek: Evil Humans Aren't Just for B5 Fans Anymore!_


----------



## drothgery (May 1, 2005)

Sir Brennen said:
			
		

> I wonder if the writers intended to revisit the Empress an the Mirror Universe in future episodes, before they found out they were cancelled.  How that would fit into the continuity of both universes, I don't know, but that's the impression I got at the end of the ep.




I suspect they were; leaving things with Hoshi as Empress seems a bit of an odd place to stop. I expect the "Mirror Universe" timeline went along the lines of

- Cochrane & co. seize Vulcan exploration ship; use Vulcan tech to conquer earth, and later, build an interstellar empire
- Archer discovers TOS Defiant
- Empress Sato uses the Defiant to crush the rebellion, figures out how its built
- 100 years later, Mirror Universe people are still flying around in copies of the Defiant, because the Empire's a lot better at conquest than science
- Kirk sets up Mirror Spock to take down the Empire
- Mirror Spock succeeds, Empire then conquered by Cardassian-led alliance; Mirror Kira runs DS9
- Mirror O'Brien & co. launch rebellion against the Cardassians, builds DS9 Defiant


----------



## Torm (May 1, 2005)

Yep, except I see that last one more like this:

- Mirror O'Brien & co. _join_ the group that had been the rebellion against the Empire, now refocused to rebel against the Cardassians, builds copy of DS9 Defiant, in part because its a small tough ship, but also because the schematics T'Pol sent the rebellion for the old Defiant played a pivotal role and have made the name "Defiant" take on special significance to the rebels.


----------



## Torm (May 1, 2005)

The Gorn could've stood to be more humanoid - pun intended. But I'd have forgiven _that_ if they had given him multifaceted eyes. As it was, he was a Jurassic Park reject.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (May 2, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> The Gorn could've stood to be more humanoid - pun intended. But I'd have forgiven _that_ if they had given him multifaceted eyes. As it was, he was a Jurassic Park reject.




Yeah. That and he jumped around like he was interbred with a kangaroo.....   Didn't really look too much like a Gorn...


----------



## myrdden (May 2, 2005)

It was a good enough episode.  Typical Trek though - good first part, followed by weaker second part.

I'm not sure if I like the Defiant staying in the mirror-verse however.  Seems too far of a stretch that the TOS crew would encounter an Empire that was at an equivalent level of tech - even though they have had access to the more advanced tech for about a centuary.

No biggie though - it was at least fun to watch.  Especially the old-constitution class.  That was cool...


----------



## Torm (May 2, 2005)

myrdden said:
			
		

> even though they have had access to the more advanced tech for about a centuary.



I don't know - we've had that crashed ship at Roswell for quite a while now, and we're still stuck in our solar system.  

Seriously, though, reverse engineering is still time consuming, even if it doesn't take as long as 'from scratch'. And the Empire seemed more likely to spend their resources making quantity, rather than quality. Also, we don't know exactly what the weapons systems on the I.S.S. Enterprise 1701 looked like compared to the regular Enterprise - maybe they _were_ ahead, and their research was mostly in weapons enhancement rather than hull design?


----------



## Torm (May 2, 2005)

myrdden said:
			
		

> Especially the old-constitution class.  That was cool...



Did you realize that there were also some of those in the debris at Wolf 359, and in Sisko's assembled fleet on DS9? I guess in emergencies, they pull some out of mothballs.


----------



## Vigilance (May 2, 2005)

myrdden said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if I like the Defiant staying in the mirror-verse however.  Seems too far of a stretch that the TOS crew would encounter an Empire that was at an equivalent level of tech - even though they have had access to the more advanced tech for about a centuary.




Except they weren't going to have access to that technology. 

That would be cooperation.

That would be the Captain of the biggest stick in the mirror-verse giving up his edge. They proved they weren't going to reap the benefits of that tech by Archer's reaction: "Stand down and let us reverse engineer it" Archer "I always wanted to disintegrate someone".

That's why it's the MIRROR universe. Hoshi wasn't going to let anyone reverse engineer that ship anymore than Archer. She was probably killed by someone shortly after that episode ended (maybe Travis)... and that ship probably passed through a LOT of hands before it was inevitably destroyed and left the Empire a little better off, since they had that amazing ship for awhile, but not as well off as an Empire that could actually cooperate.

You guys seem to think the Empire acts like the Federation would. 

Which is why mirror didn't Kirk turn over the Tantalus device to starfleet so they could make a lot of them. That would give the Empire a huge advantage. But he was worried about HIMSELF.

Just like Archer, and Sato. 

Chuck


----------



## mojo1701 (May 2, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> because the Empire's a lot better at conquest than science




Well, the Empire DID have voice-activated computers.


----------



## Truth Seeker (May 2, 2005)

Richards said:
			
		

> I think Truth Seeker just meant that was the third episode of the six that were left before the cancellation of the series.
> 
> Next week is the beginning of another two-parter dealing with Colonel Greene (a "humans only on Earth" type), and then we have the final episode. And then that's it.
> 
> Johnathan



  hehheheheheh


----------



## Truth Seeker (May 2, 2005)

drothgery said:
			
		

> I suspect they were; leaving things with Hoshi as Empress seems a bit of an odd place to stop. I expect the "Mirror Universe" timeline went along the lines of
> 
> - Cochrane & co. seize Vulcan exploration ship; use Vulcan tech to conquer earth, and later, build an interstellar empire
> - Archer discovers TOS Defiant
> ...




*blink, blink* Wow...now that is indeed a full circle trip...


----------



## jasper (May 2, 2005)

missed the first part. Got into the second part 15 min in Friday and saw the first 15 min today.  I like the opening credits and nice popcorn for the show. Bad thing is for havine to explan who the black guy security guard was. It when like this
Wife I recogize the most the cast in their new uniforms but who was the black guy who just stood. around?
Me. He was the navitigor . etc.
Wife I don't remember.
Me, Mention when his episode where he went to his parents home ship and his brother in charge.
Wife. Still don't remember.
me. Alright in 22nd century Black guys are still the driving the car and ms daisy ms hosi, and Mr. Archer around in space.
I like it but just wish I caught the first part. My station had taken to showing Top Model too in the Friday time slot.


----------



## Sir Brennen (May 2, 2005)

myrdden said:
			
		

> I'm not sure if I like the Defiant staying in the mirror-verse however.  Seems too far of a stretch that the TOS crew would encounter an Empire that was at an equivalent level of tech - even though they have had access to the more advanced tech for about a centuary.



Which is what kinda made me wonder if they intended to revisit the mirror universe in a future episode, possibly involving the Fed universe in the destruction of the Defiant.

Guess we'll never know.


----------



## TanisFrey (May 2, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> Hell, set a new series in the mirror universe.
> 
> Call it _Star Trek: Evil Humans Aren't Just for B5 Fans Anymore!_




Here is a better idea for a new series: do both sides.
How to do it:

1) Each episode is written twice, once for Fed universe, once for Dark Mirror.  They could air the story of the Fed universe one week followed by the Dark Mirror the next.  Mixing the 2 could be too confusing most of the time.

2) The Ship/Station/Setting is the only set "character".  Yes kill the Main characters in Dark Mirror and transfer them in Fed universe.  {They have only Killed the Main character what only 4 times total in 29 years of TV and 10 movies, Kirk (ST:Generation), Spock (ST:II), Jadiza Dax (STS9), Tashia Yar (ST:TNG).  Dr Who on the other had was much less violent and still killed off 3 or 4 main characters other the the Doctor in 28 years TV and 1 TV movie.}

3) NO CROSSING THE CHARACTERS FROM ONE UNIVERSE TO THE OTHER


----------



## myrdden (May 2, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Seriously, though, reverse engineering is still time consuming, even if it doesn't take as long as 'from scratch'. And the Empire seemed more likely to spend their resources making quantity, rather than quality. Also, we don't know exactly what the weapons systems on the I.S.S. Enterprise 1701 looked like compared to the regular Enterprise - maybe they _were_ ahead, and their research was mostly in weapons enhancement rather than hull design?




Possibly - but since they have access to the databanks on the Defiant I find that explanation unlikely.  Still it was an entertaining episode, just not as solid as the first part.


----------



## Rackhir (May 3, 2005)

I just enjoyed watching the evil people win for once in Star Trek. That and the complete absence of ham-handed moral points. LONG LIVE THE TERRAN EMPIRE!!!


----------



## Felon (May 4, 2005)

All I know is, if you're a character in a TV show or movie and anyone hands you something to drink, strongly consider pulling out a gun and blowing their heads off. 

"OK, freeze right there, a-hole! What's that you're handing me? Dixie cup? OK, you get to live."

"Now you! What you got? That a CHAMPAIGNE GOBLET??? Bzzzt! Sorry! Worng answer, baby! Find some other schmuck to poison." 

BLAMMO!


----------



## Darth K'Trava (May 4, 2005)

Felon said:
			
		

> All I know is, if you're a character in a TV show or movie and anyone hands you something to drink, strongly consider pulling out a gun and blowing their heads off.
> 
> "OK, freeze right there, a-hole! What's that you're handing me? Dixie cup? OK, you get to live."
> 
> ...





Wha...?   

I think you've got the wrong thread, dude...


----------



## Steve Jung (May 4, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Wha...?
> 
> I think you've got the wrong thread, dude...



He's referring to /spoiler:/ 



Spoiler



Hoshi serving Archer drinks. She poisons him with a drink.


----------



## Wolf72 (May 4, 2005)

*All Hail Empress Sato!!!!*

I loved the ending, no further story line needed  


[edit: cuz mojo said so!]


----------



## mojo1701 (May 5, 2005)

It DOES say "spoiler talk" in the thread title.


----------



## David Howery (May 5, 2005)

I'll tell you why the empire never advanced beyond the Defiant by Kirk's day, in spite of the 200 year lead.... they keep killing each other off.  Here you have the most powerful weapon in this part of the galaxy, and crew full of evil people who kill each other to get promoted.  Archer killed whats-his-name, Sato killed Archer.... next, someone will kill Hoshi (good sex only gets you so far), and so on and so on... soon, you end up with one lone red shirt crewman on the ship saying "It's mine! All mine!" and of course, he can't run the ship by himself.  So, the empire puts another crew on the ship, and the whole thing starts all over again....


----------



## Torm (May 5, 2005)

Except that's not how I see the Mirror working, or it would be completely unbelievable - the Empire would never have gotten anywhere in the first place. The way I see it, your average people are still just that - average. They do their work and hope not to get noticed too much. The people who would be famous are famous, but in the Mirror, they are famous for their ruthlessness.

If normal Sato is supposed to end up first President of the Federation or some such, I'd say Mirror Sato has a pretty good chance.


----------



## myrdden (May 5, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Except that's not how I see the Mirror working, or it would be completely unbelievable - the Empire would never have gotten anywhere in the first place. The way I see it, your average people are still just that - average. They do their work and hope not to get noticed too much. The people who would be famous are famous, but in the Mirror, they are famous for their ruthlessness.
> 
> If normal Sato is supposed to end up first President of the Federation or some such, I'd say Mirror Sato has a pretty good chance.




That's how I see it too.  The Mirror-verse is just that - a mirror reflection of the universe.  If Sato becomes Empress in the mirror-verse then she becomes quite prominent to the Federation (which may be the case, although the series really hasn't hinted at anything like that - other than she invents some linguistic thing.... ).


----------



## Mouseferatu (May 5, 2005)

myrdden said:
			
		

> other than she invents some linguistic thing.... ).




If I'm not mistaken, they're talking about the basis for the Universal Translator, the device that makes every other Star Trek series possible. 

I'd say that, alone, makes her an integral part of Federation history.


----------



## Longshadow (May 5, 2005)

I liked the historical tidbits a lot.  I also liked the stuff the writer (Sussman) said in an interview about what was on the entry on the computer's screen but that didn't make it in the script for an actor to read -- Archer dies at home, peacefully and of old age, the day after attending the first launch of the NCC-1701; Hoshi and her husband were eventually settlers on Tarsus IV, and were among the 1/2 the population that Kodos had killed to keep the other half (including a very young Jim Kirk) alive.  I loved the history links game.  That's why I think season four has been *SO  * much better than 1-3, that Manny Coto went back and starting mining those links for all they were worth (Eugenics leftovers, Soong, Vulcan reawakening to Surak, Klingon morphological differences, etc).  B&B's aversion to using the history in an _HISTORICAL _ series always baffled me.


----------



## wingsandsword (May 6, 2005)

Longshadow said:
			
		

> That's why I think season four has been *SO  * much better than 1-3, that Manny Coto went back and starting mining those links for all they were worth (Eugenics leftovers, Soong, Vulcan reawakening to Surak, Klingon morphological differences, etc).  B&B's aversion to using the history in an _HISTORICAL _ series always baffled me.



Season 4 was by far the best season, because it remembered it was the past of Star Trek, not just another sci-fi show that shared the name and common elements of Star Trek, but with slightly lower technology (when it's convenient to do so).  To be honest, it's the only season I intend to buy on DVD when it comes out, because it's the only one that realky feels like Old Star Trek instead of New Star Trek in retro clothing: Tellarites, Babel, Tholians, enigmatic Romulans and Gorn instead of what we had in prior seasons: Borg, Nausicaans, Big-Ridged Klingons and Ferengi.

Given the canonical (or at least semi-canonical) nature of the computer displays in Star Trek, I guess we now have the fates of some of the Enterprise crew, and the Tarsus IV bit was a nice touch to old continuity.


----------



## Orius (May 8, 2005)

Torm said:
			
		

> Yep, except I see that last one more like this:
> 
> - Mirror O'Brien & co. _join_ the group that had been the rebellion against the Empire, now refocused to rebel against the Cardassians, builds copy of DS9 Defiant, in part because its a small tough ship, but also because the schematics T'Pol sent the rebellion for the old Defiant played a pivotal role and have made the name "Defiant" take on special significance to the rebels.





I do find it interesting that the mirror univirse has now benefitted from two normal universe Defiants.  And remember, it's not just the Cardassians, but the Klingons as well.  In fact, I think the Klingons are probably more importants that the Cardassians in that alliance.  And Worf as the evil regent of the Cardassian/Klingon alliance was as fun as the coldly evil mirror Spock.


----------



## Orius (May 8, 2005)

myrdden said:
			
		

> It was a good enough episode.  Typical Trek though - good first part, followed by weaker second part.
> 
> I'm not sure if I like the Defiant staying in the mirror-verse however.  Seems too far of a stretch that the TOS crew would encounter an Empire that was at an equivalent level of tech - even though they have had access to the more advanced tech for about a centuary.
> 
> No biggie though - it was at least fun to watch.  Especially the old-constitution class.  That was cool...




The mirror universe doesn't really make much sense when examined close up anyway.  I mean what's the chance that both the USS Enterprise and ISS Enterprise would both be trying to get dilithium from the Halkons at exactly the same time for a convienient transporter accident to occur and allow a universe switch?  Or that almost all the main DS9 chracters (except Jake) would exist in the mirror universe given that the two univierses would almost certainly diverge in the century separating the two episodes?  The mirror episodes have always been a sort of fun diversion from normal episodes, and I think the same thing is true here.


----------



## Orius (May 8, 2005)

Darth K'Trava said:
			
		

> Didn't really look too much like a Gorn...




You mean a guy in an obviously fake rubber lizard suit?


----------



## Darth K'Trava (May 9, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> You mean a guy in an obviously fake rubber lizard suit?




Even then the CGI Gorn didn't really look lizard-like at all.


----------



## Darth K'Trava (May 9, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> The mirror universe doesn't really make much sense when examined close up anyway.  I mean what's the chance that both the USS Enterprise and ISS Enterprise would both be trying to get dilithium from the Halkons at exactly the same time for a convienient transporter accident to occur and allow a universe switch?  Or that almost all the main DS9 chracters (except Jake) would exist in the mirror universe given that the two univierses would almost certainly diverge in the century separating the two episodes?  The mirror episodes have always been a sort of fun diversion from normal episodes, and I think the same thing is true here.





And the fact, with the assassination rate in the mirror universe, that the whole group of characters would even be intact... is amazing.


----------



## John Crichton (May 9, 2005)

Mouseferatu said:
			
		

> If I'm not mistaken, they're talking about the basis for the Universal Translator, the device that makes every other Star Trek series possible.
> 
> I'd say that, alone, makes her an integral part of Federation history.



Dude.  She didn't invent it, she WAS the first Universal Translator.  


Oh wait...


----------



## Viking Bastard (May 9, 2005)

Orius said:
			
		

> The mirror universe doesn't really make much sense when examined close up anyway.



Well, if there are infinite universes...


----------



## Particle_Man (Jul 22, 2005)

That's how I think of it.  If there are infinite universes, there will be two that resemble each other in a "mirror" kinda way for a while.  And given ST weirdness, maybe the "walls" between two "close in a mirror kinda way" universes occasionally get eroded, in a parody of superstring theory.


----------

