# Pathfinder fighters - anything I should know? (build advice)



## Olive (Aug 8, 2010)

So I'm making a human fighter for a Pathfinder game. I haven't played PF before although I played a whole lot of 3.X D&D (although never a fighter and I don't think I ever had a straight fighter in my games).

I was thinking of a sword and board guy with the following feats:
Power Attack
Shield Focus
Exotic Weapon Prof (Bastard Sword)

Am I missing anything obvious here?


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## Kaisoku (Aug 8, 2010)

Well, there are a few changes in Pathfinder that you might want to keep in consideration while making your character:



The Fighter now gets armor training, which makes it so he no longer has speed penalties in heavier armor, and the armor check penalties are reduced and dex bonus increased dramatically (eventually getting -4/+4 respectively).
This means you can eventually have mithral full plate with no armor check penalties, and max Dex of +7 (Dex score of 24).
So you don't need to forgo Dex like you used to.
Sword & Board is now the best form of Two Weapon Fighting, what with shield slam and shield master feats (no penalties for twf bash and free bull rush).
If you are looking for more "defensive" stuff, the APG has guardian feats and a Fighter archetype for shield defense stuff (although you give up your wider range of benefits for that focus).
While the bastard sword is a nice weapon, there are now a lot of critical feats that you'll have access to at later levels that you might want an 18-20 crit range weapon for (such as a scimitar, if staying with 1 handed).
Then again, you have retraining options at every 4 levels, and scimitar and bastard sword are both on the same weapon training line (heavy blades), so you can just switch that out later when it becomes a serious option (12th level likely). Just watch your weapon focus/specialization feats until then...
While you'll have Bravery to assist with some Will save issues, you _do_ get more regular feats in Pathfinder, so picking up Iron Will and even Improved Iron Will are good ideas.
If you want something to do outside of combat, keep in mind that cross-class skills are no longer a major set back (only a +3 bonus for being a class skill), so picking up something the group is lacking can work quite easily. With Human, you can have 4 skillpoints with only a 10 Int, if you put our favored class bonus into a skillpoint. And Skill Focus now gives an extra benefit once you hit 10 ranks (bumps to +6), so you aren't really hurting.
That's about all I can think of without going into specific details. If you have the Advanced Player's Guide, you'll have a lot more options beyond "slap on some TWF" for your Shieldplay...


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## Kaiyanwang (Aug 8, 2010)

The feats you use dictates your weapon of choice. In-game, one could imagine the style(s) of the fighter basing on the weapon he wields.

In the case of S&B, it depends from what you want to do: if your objective is pure control (so you take S&B feats, bull rush feats, but combat expertise/improved trip as well) you could just go light flail.

If you want to bash people with your shield, but be able to deliver occasional big strikes with Vital Strike, the bastard COULD be a good idea, even if the feat works at his best with great dice weapons (greatsord, greataxe..).

If you want to S&B AND use critical feats, at this point go Light Shield & Scimitar. Nevertheless, a _keen _Bastard sword would crit on a 17+, so, even if not optimal is doable with critical feats.

If you want an high-damage-dice weapon in one hand, AND critical feats, spend a feat on Bastard could be reasonable.


The first choice, in short, is "I want to go pure damage, or use maneuvers too?"


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## pawsplay (Aug 8, 2010)

Stricly by the numbers, W Focus (longsword) is usually going to be better than EWP (bastard sword). +1 to hit is usually worth more than +1 average damage. Still, if you prefer it for character-driven reasons, or you plan on taking more bastard sword-related feats later, it's not much of a handicap.


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## Olive (Aug 9, 2010)

I don't think a scimitar would be very 'in character' even though it would be pretty cool. Plus while the critical feats look cool, I'd be amazed if the campaign lasted till 9th level let alone beyond.

My stats are ok, ish. One thing I was wondering about was whether to put the second hugest in Dex, therefore being eligible for TWF. I guess I will.

And I can't believe I forgot about weapon focus. Damn. I'll go longsword then.


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## Dilvias (Aug 9, 2010)

A couple of things...  If you go two-weapon fighting, you're going to want Improved Shield Bash, so you can keep your AC bonus when bashing people.  Also, the light shield counts as a light weapon, the heavy shield does not.    Also, dodge is now a simple +1 AC, so you may want to look at that when you have a feat to spare. 

If you do go with shield bashing, look at shield slam at level 6.  It's a free bull rush every time you hit somebody with your shield.      

How does your DM handle magic items?  It may be worthwhile to look at the Master Craftsman feat, which requires 5 ranks in a craft skill.  It opens up the ability to take item crafting feats, and you may have enough feats to spare dropping one or two into item crafting.  Of course, if your wizard is going to pick them up anyway, don't bother.


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## Olive (Aug 9, 2010)

What I worry about is getting sidetracked and taking not enough power attack type feats and not enough TWF or dex based feats to be effective.

I also just noticed the cleave change - no longer requiring you to drop an opponent. So 

Power Attack
Shield Focus
Exotic Weapon Prof (Bastard Sword)

has become

Power Attack
Weapon Focus (longsword)
Cleave

With Shield Focus coming at level 2 I think.


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## Kaisoku (Aug 9, 2010)

I'm not sure I understand the problem with Weapon Focus, since you can still do Weapon Focus (bastard sword) as well. The exotic proficiency is simply an extra feat to get a +1 average damage bonus higher.
Although, if you ever plan on becoming Large (via Enlarge Person, etc), both 1d8 and 1d10 turn into 2d6 with a size increase, so the bastard sword is kind of a weak choice for that feat.

The elven curveblade on the other hand... nice weapon if you were going two-handed instead.

Regarding the Two Weapon Fighting feats. If you plan on going with the Shield, the Shield Master feat (for no offhand penalties when making a shield bash) has a +11 BAB requirement.
If you expect that 9th level is going to be the peak point of gaming, then you might not see the full potential of the shield bash/twf line.

Not that it won't work for your lower levels. That free bull rush can be real fun.
Note that you don't need Shield Focus to get the Improved Shield Bash effect, or even the whole TWF with a shield line.

Since you are going down the Power Attack line, there some new changes you might find interesting.

Sunder now can give equipment the "broken" condition when they are reduced to half hitpoints. This causes -2 atk and crit only on 20/x2 when done to a weapon, or halved AC and double armor check penalties when used on armor and shields. Wands use double charges to work.
Oh, and the Greater Sunder feat lets you carry over excess damage to the wielder when you break their equipment.
If you plan on playing against a lot of humanoids (city adventure, etc), this could be an interesting option.

With that in mind, all of the combat maneuvers now have greater feat versions. In the case of Overrun and Bull Rush, they make it so the action causes others to get attacks of opportunity against the target. If you intend to be getting free bull rush attacks with your shield slam, and you have party members that will be joining you in combat, then getting Greater Bull Rush is a good idea.

You'll have a lot of feats coming your way (basically one every level after 1st), so you'll be able to branch out quite a bit.


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## pawsplay (Aug 9, 2010)

Kaisoku said:


> I'm not sure I understand the problem with Weapon Focus, since you can still do Weapon Focus (bastard sword) as well. The exotic proficiency is simply an extra feat to get a +1 average damage bonus higher.




As I said,



			
				pawsplay said:
			
		

> Still, if you prefer it for character-driven reasons, *or you plan on taking more bastard sword-related feats later*, it's not much of a handicap.


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## Kaisoku (Aug 9, 2010)

It was more his response to your post. Like it's either Weapon Focus or Bastard Sword, but not both...
At least, that's the impression I got from his "damn, longsword then".


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## StreamOfTheSky (Aug 9, 2010)

Haven't tried a Fighter yet, but they still seem to get an icky class skill list.  Granted, you can buy up ranks on cross class skills at no penalty, but the +3 class skill bonus is nice.  If you can dip (any other class with nice class skills) 1 level, that might be worth pursuing.  Even something similar to your career field like Barbarian can get you Acrobatics and Perception...



Kaisoku said:


> Although, if you ever plan on becoming Large (via Enlarge Person, etc), both 1d8 and 1d10 turn into 2d6 with a size increase, so the bastard sword is kind of a weak choice for that feat.




Did Pathfinder change the damage tables to this?  In 3E, a d10 goes to 2d8, a d8 goes to 2d6 when enlarged.  So when enlarged, the bastard sword would be givin you +2 average damage higher.  Still not worth a feat, IMO, but if you really have nothing better at all to spend one on...


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## Olive (Aug 9, 2010)

Kaisoku said:


> It was more his response to your post. Like it's either Weapon Focus or Bastard Sword, but not both...
> At least, that's the impression I got from his "damn, longsword then".




I can't do both and get the feats I want at level 1. If I took weapon focus (BS) and EWP (BS) I'd have to drop cleave. Then I take cleave at 2nd, shield focus at 3rd. I think I'll stick with a longsword.


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## Kaisoku (Aug 9, 2010)

Olive said:


> I can't do both and get the feats I want at level 1.




Gotcha.



StreamOfTheSky said:


> Did Pathfinder change the damage tables to  this?  In 3E, a d10 goes to 2d8, a d8 goes to 2d6 when enlarged.  So  when enlarged, the bastard sword would be givin you +2 average damage  higher.  Still not worth a feat, IMO, but if you really have nothing  better at all to spend one on...




Odd.. why am I remembering this from someplace? Strange...
Maybe I'm thinking of how 1d8 jumps to 2d6 (a 2 point increase) skipping 1d10.. which doesn't really apply here at all.
That's what I get for posting while tired...


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