# Lolth touched template broken?



## Question (Aug 21, 2006)

Im looking at the MM IV and looking at the lolth touched template. 

+6 str, +6 con, +4 racial bonus to hide/move silently(im curious will this racial bonus stack with any other racial bonuses?), immunity to fear.

LA +1

How is this LA +1?


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## frankthedm (Aug 21, 2006)

It is a bit much for a LA+1. 

Mayhap roleplaying restrictions? Lolth is an evil bitch. I suspect snagging the template comes with some baggage. AT the very least i would suspect you are playing in a drow campaign or are the target of a drow campaign
Mayhap a copy and paste error?
Maybe it is just "Upping the Ante" of the game,so if PCs use it, the DM uses it against them.

Maybe for a drow saddled with thier already painful LA, that would be about right.

But on the other hand, LA is often decided after a creature or template is built. When that happens one feature of said template often knocks the LA upward to prevent that ability from getting out of hand. If you build a template under the idea of what exactly a LA is worth, you get more milage out of LA.


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## Cheiromancer (Aug 21, 2006)

There are some pretty extraordinary +1 LA templates out there.  Mineral warrior, I'm looking at you.

But yeah, it would make drow fighters extremely awesome.  Their spellcasters, not so much.  But still.


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## frankthedm (Aug 21, 2006)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> There are some pretty extraordinary +1 LA templates out there.  Mineral warrior, I'm looking at you.
> 
> But yeah, it would make drow fighters extremely awesome.  Their spellcasters, not so much.  But still.



That 1st level drow fighter in a 4th level game is still quite dead though...

I am not familiar with the mineral warrior. The poison dusk lizardfolk though... ewww. 1 level is more than worth it for a small rogue with claw, claw, bite.


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## Question (Aug 21, 2006)

Yea mineral warrior is on wizard's site somewhere, and is also quite under priced.

I think a better idea would have been to errata the planetouched races, and a few other races like the drow.......they are fairly weak for their LA, yet a bit too strong for LA +0/1 respectively. So the best solution seems to give them a bit more bonuses to make it into a decent/strong LA +1/+2 respectively.

The lolth touched idea does bring up several ideas though. What would the other deities use for example?

Correllan touched : +6 dex +6 int +4 racial bonus to knowledge(arcana) and spellcraft, immunity to fear? Since elf favored class is wizard.......


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## pawsplay (Aug 21, 2006)

Compare to the Half-Ogre, which is LA +2. They also have very high ability scores, but also have reach. 

Basically, unbalanced ability scores are going to snag you a +1 LA. A lot of the things you are applying this to already have a LA, so you probably want to be conservative. Even higher bonuses CAN net a higher LA, but they usually do not. Quite simply, even with a very strong melee ability and hit points, you can only lose so many HD before saves and feats become a real issue.

No, the real problem with this template is that it's dumb. "I worship Lolth... I get bonuses!" just does not cut it for me. Why are lolth-touched so fiendishly strong? It just seems out of kilter. Bahamut has the dragonborn, Tiamat has her spawn... Lolth has Batman? Why are Lolth's followers so disproportionately buffed, compared to, say, the followers of Correlon Larethian?


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## Sejs (Aug 21, 2006)

pawsplay said:
			
		

> Why are lolth-touched so fiendishly strong? It just seems out of kilter. Bahamut has the dragonborn, Tiamat has her spawn... Lolth has Batman?




No, no - Lolth has Spiderman.  Batman is someone else.    


And yeah, put me in the WTF crowd, too.


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## Question (Aug 21, 2006)

I think the lolth touched attempt is an attempt at making minor, very minor chosen servants of Lolth. More like mini champions as oppsoed to full chosen of X templates, or avatars.


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## Cheiromancer (Aug 21, 2006)

frankthedm said:
			
		

> That 1st level drow fighter in a 4th level game is still quite dead though...
> 
> I am not familiar with the mineral warrior. The poison dusk lizardfolk though... ewww. 1 level is more than worth it for a small rogue with claw, claw, bite.




LAs don't make sense until they are less than half the ECL.  A third level drow fighter in a 6th level game won't be an ueber character, but the extra +3 to attacks and damage will help make up for the 3 BAB he's lost, and the 9 hp from extra Con will go a ways towards making up for the 3 hit dice he's behind.  And it's not like drow don't get anything for their +2 LA.

Now a lolth touched poison dusk lizardfolk- that's a different story!


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## frankthedm (Aug 21, 2006)

Cheiromancer said:
			
		

> Now a lolth touched poison dusk lizardfolk- that's a different story!



A very painful one too. The claw{sneak], claw{sneak], bite{sneak] routine to the groin _huuurts._   

The only thing that keeps those little buggers sane is _"A rogue cannot sneak attack while striking a creature with concealment or striking the limbs of a creature whose vitals are beyond reach."_ And since many DMs do ignore that, the PDLF is quite broken.


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## Three_Haligonians (Aug 22, 2006)

*Omigosh!*



			
				Sejs said:
			
		

> No, no - Lolth has Spiderman.





James Jonah Jameson was right! he *is* a bad guy!


J from Three Haligonians


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## Nightfall (Aug 22, 2006)

LOL 

Yeah well I hate Lolth anyway. She's been a thorn in my side ever since her ascension. Even worse when she allowed the undead slattern status in her panethon. Orcus commands all drow be killed! (At least the Lolth worshipping ones. )


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