# ENWorld Spamletter



## Elephant

I was very disturbed to see 

EN World D&D/RPG Newsletter #1

arrive in my email box yesterday.  I never subscribed to an ENWorld newsletter.  I never wanted to be subscribed to an ENWorld newsletter.

Simply blasting it out to all user accounts rather than putting up a note about it so people could subscribe?

Very bad form.  Boo, Morrus.  Boo.


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## CapnZapp

I am suspicious. 

There are no news about this newsletter. I can't find any new subscribe/unsub setting in my options.

And of course, for it to be real, ENWorld need to have decided to spam us.

So is this real, or is it just a hoax/virus/spam attempt?


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## Mathew_Freeman

CapnZapp said:


> I am suspicious.
> 
> There are no news about this newsletter. I can't find any new subscribe/unsub setting in my options.
> 
> And of course, for it to be real, ENWorld need to have decided to spam us.
> 
> So is this real, or is it just a hoax/virus/spam attempt?




If you look at the bottom of the newsletter there is an option to unsubscribe.

Other than that, as far as I can see it's entirely real and simply repeats a list of the most recent news stories and some of the more popular forum threads.

I hardly think that one newsletter is enough to decry Morrus for "spamming" you - if he'd sent four or five in the same day, maybe.


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## Knight Otu

I got two copies (probably for my two accounts), which did land in my spam folder. However, I also received a different email back on March 24th, which did announce that the newsletter would come:



> Dear Knight Otu,
> 
> Starting soon, EN World will be sending out a weekly newsletter.  This newsletter will contain the latest D&D and RPG news, delivered straight to your inbox.
> 
> We appreciate that not everyone will want to receive this newsletter, which is why we're sending out this courtesy email in advance.  You can easily choose not to receive the newsletter by switching it off in your member account control panel:
> 
> http://www.enworld.org/forum/profile.php?do=editoptions




You know, I *was* wondering about whether it would actually happen after several months of silence.


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## EricNoah

It's real, I chatted with Russ about it on Facebook.  One thing I did learn is that the "no newsletter" setting deep in the Options in your user account is referring to an older attempt at a newsletter and doesn't affect whether you get this one or not; so you should use the unsubscribe link on the newsletter itself.


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## Dyson Logos

I like it. Most of the time I just log straight into the forums without reading the news page. This gives me a nice news update on a weekly basis.

Keep it up!


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## fba827

hm. i didn't get one (hotmail account), though admitedly i might unsubscribe from it if i did since i come here regularly enough to see the same news, so i'm not complaining either way.  But, curious none the less!

(yes, checked my spam folder and everything) so maybe i somehow preemptively turned it off without realizing it because *all* my settings that give me a choice for email notification (such as subscribed threads and what not) are set to 'no email' when given that option.


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## Kid Charlemagne

fba827 said:


> hm. i didn't get one (hotmail account), though admitedly i might unsubscribe from it if i did since i come here regularly enough to see the same news, so i'm not complaining either way.  But, curious none the less!




They were going out in stages, but I thought they had all gone out by now.  Otherwise, what Eric said - it's legit, and if you don't want to receive it hit the unsubscribe link...


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## Umbran

Elephant said:


> I was very disturbed to see
> 
> EN World D&D/RPG Newsletter #1




We're sorry you find it disturbing.   Since you had registered at the site, it seemed reasonable to guess that things going on at the site would be of interest to you.  There's an unsubscribe option in the newsletter, and will be one in all following newsletters.


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## LightPhoenix

fba827 said:


> hm. i didn't get one (hotmail account), though admitedly i might unsubscribe from it if i did since i come here regularly enough to see the same news, so i'm not complaining either way.  But, curious none the less!
> 
> (yes, checked my spam folder and everything) so maybe i somehow preemptively turned it off without realizing it because *all* my settings that give me a choice for email notification (such as subscribed threads and what not) are set to 'no email' when given that option.




My account is also linked to a hotmail account and I also haven't received it.


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## Arnwyn

Umbran said:


> We're sorry you find it disturbing.   Since you had registered at the site, it seemed reasonable to guess that things going on at the site would be of interest to you.



That's why you use the "opt-in" methodology, not the weasely "opt-out". And no, registering for ENWorld forums is not an "opt-in" for newsletter emails.

(As an aside - another hotmail account user here, and I also did not receive it. Maybe I got lucky and managed to turn it off long before receiving the spam (i.e. unsolicited email).)


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## wedgeski

Hmm, I have received no such beast, and would actually really like to get it. I'll check my spam trap.


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## Blackrat

wedgeski said:


> Hmm, I have received no such beast, and would actually really like to get it. I'll check my spam trap.




Ditto. I'd actually like it too as I tend to ignore the news page...


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## CapnZapp

Mathew_Freeman said:


> If you look at the bottom of the newsletter there is an option to unsubscribe.



But that requires opening the newsletter, which requires un-deleting it. 

*How do I access the unsubscribe switch without accessing the newsletter itself?*

Requiring one to opening up an email reminds me of real spammers, who would use this to detect an active email account. Not to speak about having to click a link in an unsolicited email...



EricNoah said:


> It's real, I chatted with Russ about it on Facebook.



Of course you realize we can't all be chatting with Russ, and indeed some of us aren't on Facebook at all.

How about ENWorld heralding their newsletter on the main page as well as a forum announcement weeks in advance, to let people know their "spam letter" actually is real?!



EricNoah said:


> One thing I did learn is that the "no newsletter" setting deep in the Options in your user account is referring to an older attempt at a newsletter and doesn't affect whether you get this one or not; so you should use the unsubscribe link on the newsletter itself.



Thanks for letting me know any attempts at scouring my options would be a waste of time.



Umbran said:


> We're sorry you find it disturbing.   Since you had registered at the site, it seemed reasonable to guess that things going on at the site would be of interest to you.  There's an unsubscribe option in the newsletter, and will be one in all following newsletters.



Sorry, but that's not nearly good enough. 

I request an options setting, so that I don't have to even open the newsletter once to get rid of it! Of course, common courtesy would indicate you turning it off for me. 

Or in other words:


Arnwyn said:


> That's why you use the "opt-in" methodology, not the weasely "opt-out". And no, registering for ENWorld forums is not an "opt-in" for newsletter emails.


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## wedgeski

CapnZapp said:


> Requiring one to opening up an email reminds me of real spammers, who would use this to detect an active email account. Not to speak about having to click a link in an unsolicited email...



Although I agree in principle that you should have been able to opt-out before-hand, I think you're being overly harsh here.

Spam is a nightmare. I know. I have a hard enough time dealing with it myself. But this isn't some random farmed mass-mailer, this is a site to which you have already provided your email address and which (presumably) creates content you enjoy. One email in your Inbox, three seconds to find the link, 2 seconds to check it goes where it says it goes, and a few seconds to click it are not going to ruin your day, are they?


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## Elephant

Mathew_Freeman said:


> If you look at the bottom of the newsletter there is an option to unsubscribe.
> 
> Other than that, as far as I can see it's entirely real and simply repeats a list of the most recent news stories and some of the more popular forum threads.
> 
> I hardly think that one newsletter is enough to decry Morrus for "spamming" you - if he'd sent four or five in the same day, maybe.




Oh, well, since there's an 'unsubscribe' link, it's okay.

Not.

The point is, I should never have received the email in the first place -- if I wanted a newsletter subscription, I would have signed up for it from the ENWorld homepage.

As for labeling it "spam", it's an unwanted automated mass email.  The fact that it's not hawking Viagra or diet pills is irrelevant.



Knight Otu said:


> I got two copies (probably for my two accounts), which did land in my spam folder. However, I also received a different email back on March 24th, which did announce that the newsletter would come:




I never got an announcement email.  Either way, it wouldn't have mattered -- the announcement email didn't include an opt-out option, did it?



Kid Charlemagne said:


> They were going out in stages, but I thought they had all gone out by now.  Otherwise, what Eric said - it's legit, and if you don't want to receive it hit the unsubscribe link...




If I took the time to hunt for and click the unsubscribe link in every unwanted email that finds its way to my inbox, I'd never get anything else done!

Just because this particular newsletter email is not a _major_ inconvenience doesn't excuse Morrus for inconveniencing me in the first place.



Arnwyn said:


> That's why you use the "opt-in" methodology, not the weasely "opt-out". And no, registering for ENWorld forums is not an "opt-in" for newsletter emails.




Well-put.  A newsletter can be a good thing...so long as you actually send it to the people who want it...and only the people who want it.



wedgeski said:


> Although I agree in principle that you should have been able to opt-out before-hand, I think you're being overly harsh here.
> 
> Spam is a nightmare. I know. I have a hard enough time dealing with it myself. But this isn't some random farmed mass-mailer, this is a site to which you have already provided your email address and which (presumably) creates content you enjoy. One email in your Inbox, three seconds to find the link, 2 seconds to check it goes where it says it goes, and a few seconds to click it are not going to ruin your day, are they?




First - in principle, I should never have had to opt out.  I should have been given an opportunity to opt-in (which, in my case, I would have forgone).
Second - you're underestimating the time it takes to deal with the newsletter.  It's more like five seconds to start reading before going "What IS this ... stuff?  I didn't sign up for a blinking newsletter!"  Another five seconds to weigh searching the email vs. clicking "report spam", followed by 5-10 to search the email for an unsubscribe link (I'm a fast reader.  Low-literacy readers would have to read the _entire email_ in order to find the unsubscribe link.  Count it as 2-3 minutes for them.), and finally another 5 seconds for checking the link and clicking.

Plus the bad feelings about it that led me to post here and spend over ten minutes engaged in this thread, of course.

As I said earlier, just because it's a "minor" inconvenience doesn't grant license to incur the inconvenience in the first place.


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## Morrus

Well, well.

To those of you who are upset by the newsletter - I'm sorry.  It was sent with the best of intentions, in the belief you'd be interested in it, and goes out only to those who have indicated that they will accept emails from the admin on their account page.

I've tried to make it as easy as possible.  First, you can elect not to receive emails from me in your account; second, there's an unsubscribe link in the email itself; third, at the top of the front page, there's a "Newsletter" link which you can use to review past newsletters, unsubscribe, or what-have-you.

It's a mixed bag - I've had a lot of folks say they really like it, so I'm glad for that.  The aim was to do something useful, not to bug you.


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## Knight Otu

Elephant said:


> Either way, it wouldn't have mattered -- the announcement email didn't include an opt-out option, did it?




Technically it did, except the email didn't say which of the options to uncheck. I wouldn't have thought of unchecking "Emails from Admins" for this from the announcement mail itself, and even so, unchecking that option does sound like a somewhat bad idea ("Well, we might have been able to sort out things regarding your ban if you had allowed to be emailed, but this way...").


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## Dyson Logos

The definition of e-mail Spam is typically that it be "unsolicited" and "bulk".

As a point worth mentioning - communicating with your clients, subscribers and registered user base, even through bulk email, is looked upon as normal mail according to the most definitions of spam such as the one provided by the Spamhaus Project. Further there is no way this would qualify under the CAN-SPAM definition of spam.

Being a registered member of a website and getting the newsletter of news relevant to that website from that website is a serious stretch of any definition of spam.


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## La Bete

Morrus said:


> It's a mixed bag - I've had a lot of folks say they really like it, so I'm glad for that.  The aim was to do something useful, not to bug you.




Hi Morrus,

I can't say that I'm jumping with joy over the email, but am blissfully unconcerned about you sending it, and appreciated you taking the time to come up with new ways to make the site more useful to us. Keep up the good work!

Elephant/CapnZapp - overreacting posters are overreacting.

Pleeease tell me you post on CM.


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## Umbran

Knight Otu said:


> and even so, unchecking that option does sound like a somewhat bad idea ("Well, we might have been able to sort out things regarding your ban if you had allowed to be emailed, but this way...").




This is not a concern.  The option is to allow or disallow _system_ e-mails from the admins.  If a mod or admin needs to speak with you personally, we can still look up your e-mail address and send you an e-mail privately, outside the system.


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## Knight Otu

Umbran said:


> This is not a concern.  The option is to allow or disallow _system_ e-mails from the admins.  If a mod or admin needs to speak with you personally, we can still look up your e-mail address and send you an e-mail privately, outside the system.




While that's how _I_'d expect it to work (though I admittedly did not know for certain, having never been in that situation), would the average user know that from the description? It only says "From time to time, the administrators may want to send you email notices.

If you do not want to receive these notices, disable this option."


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## Morrus

Knight Otu said:


> While that's how _I_'d expect it to work (though I admittedly did not know for certain, having never been in that situation), would the average user know that from the description? It only says "From time to time, the administrators may want to send you email notices.
> 
> If you do not want to receive these notices, disable this option."




That's the inbuilt vBulletin text.  There may be a way to change it to make it clearer - I'll have a poke around.  But, yeah, newsletters etc. is _exactly_ what that setting is for.


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## Elephant

Morrus said:


> Well, well.
> 
> To those of you who are upset by the newsletter - I'm sorry.  It was sent with the best of intentions, in the belief you'd be interested in it, and goes out only to those who have indicated that they will accept emails from the admin on their account page.
> <snip>
> 
> It's a mixed bag - I've had a lot of folks say they really like it, so I'm glad for that.  The aim was to do something useful, not to bug you.




And in all fairness, a lot of people *do* find the newsletter useful.  I'm upset about it being blasted along as an opt-out, that's all.



La Bete said:


> Hi Morrus,
> 
> I can't say that I'm jumping with joy over the email, but am blissfully unconcerned about you sending it, and appreciated you taking the time to come up with new ways to make the site more useful to us. Keep up the good work!
> 
> Elephant/CapnZapp - overreacting posters are overreacting.
> 
> Pleeease tell me you post on CM.




On the contrary, unsubscribing and then complaining about the annoyance is exactly the appropriate response.  Maybe, just maybe, next time Morrus/other ENWorld admins/new powers that be will use better methodology for newsletter subscriptions.  If they do, it's a win for everyone.


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## Tewligan

I'm reminded of KenM here.


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## Desdichado

Elephant said:


> On the contrary, unsubscribing and then complaining about the annoyance is exactly the appropriate response. .



There, that's better.  In your account options, did you specify that you don't mind recieving emails from the admins?  Is that easily changeable?

It's on you, bub.  Keep your complaining to yourself.


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## the Jester

To those of you complaining, how much time have you wasted posting to this thread?

Now compare to:

How much time would it take to unsubscribe or otherwise arrange to not receive the newsletter?

And ask yourself:

Don't I have something to do with all that time I would save?


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## frankthedm

Morrus said:


> That's the inbuilt vBulletin text.  There may be a way to change it to make it clearer - I'll have a poke around.  But, yeah, newsletters etc. is _exactly_ what that setting is for.



Really? To me it seemed much more related to;


> EN World D&D / RPG News - FAQ: The Rules of EN World
> 
> *What happens if I break the rules?
> 
> *It depends. We may just email you, gently reminding you about the standard of conduct we expect here; we may post in the thread or topic if we feel it will help; alternatively, we may suspend your account, either temporarily or permanently.



EDIT:Ubrans posts clears this up a bit.


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## Morrus

frankthedm said:


> Really? To me it seemed much more related to;
> EDIT:Ubrans posts clears this up a bit.




Nah, that's a proviso in the rules - even if you have admin emails set to "no" we reserve the right to email you if you're being an ass on our messageboard.


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## frankthedm

Morrus said:


> Nah, that's a proviso in the rules - even if you have admin emails set to "no" we reserve the right to email you if you're being an ass on our messageboard.



Here I was thinking it was more like putting mods on "ignore". You can do it, but may wind up being SOL if you don't see the moderator's request or command.

Edit: Can't speak for other posters, but I've always felt apprehensive about unsubscribe links in emails.

Semi related link... i think

http://www.clickz.com/3627912


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## Morrus

frankthedm said:


> Here I was thinking it was more like putting mods on "ignore". You can do it, but may wind up being SOL if you don't see the moderator's request or command.
> 
> Edit: Can't speak for other posters, but I've always felt apprehensive about unsubscribe links in emails.
> 
> Semi related link... i think
> 
> E-mailers Flunk the Unsubscribe Test - ClickZ




It works - I tested it myself!


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## Imperialus

I like the Email personally.  I mostly futz around on CM now and I don't really care for the new(ish?) layout of the news page so it's nice getting the condensed version in my inbox.


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## Desdichado

frankthedm said:


> Here I was thinking it was more like putting mods on "ignore". You can do it, but may wind up being SOL if you don't see the moderator's request or command.



Actually, no.  You can't put a mod on Ignore.

I've tried.


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## Mark

I receive the newsletter at more than one account, because I have more than one ID, and it was simple to scroll to the bottom of the newsletter and unsubscribe.


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## HinterWelt

Elephant said:


> And in all fairness, a lot of people *do* find the newsletter useful.  I'm upset about it being blasted along as an opt-out, that's all.
> 
> 
> 
> On the contrary, unsubscribing and then complaining about the annoyance is exactly the appropriate response.  Maybe, just maybe, next time Morrus/other ENWorld admins/new powers that be will use better methodology for newsletter subscriptions.  If they do, it's a win for everyone.




This. Yes, I came here initially to start a thread to this effect. Am I scarred for life and feel violated in my pink parts? No. However, I would expect such a newsletter to be opt-in. As for the "admin Emailing you" setting, I totally would have thought that was just like it sounds, to have admins contact you.

Again, as with above, this is mostly an FYI for next time not a "Heads must roll".


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## Dyson Logos

HinterWelt said:


> As for the "admin Emailing you" setting, I totally would have thought that was just like it sounds, to have admins contact you.




Nit-pick: And this newsletter is somehow /not/ the admin contacting you?


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## HinterWelt

Dyson Logos said:


> Nit-pick: And this newsletter is somehow /not/ the admin contacting you?




No, it is not. It is a newsletter. I would expect from the context of the check box that it would be for things like "The board will be down" or even "OMG! We are out of money time for a pledge drive!". This was unsolicited. It really was not about the administrative function of the board but as a "Nudge, Nudge, hey! Pay attention" sort thing. Note, this is not some sort of empirical valuation but merely my response to it. As has been shown in this thread, some folks were pleased with it while others were not. My point is, we should be allowed to choose to be included in such emailing before hand (and i feel the account setting is not clear in that), thus, opt-in not opt-out.

Again, I need to say, this is not posted in "Outrage!!!1!11" but as an FYI next time Morrus gets an idea. At least on my part...


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## Elephant

One other thing to note - it's indicative of the respect and "reputation powe" that ENWorld commands that I bothered to unsubscribe and post about it.  Usually, when I get an unsolicited newsletter, I click "mark as spam" in gmail and, if necessary, add a deletion filter for the sending address.

@Mark - as I observed before, unsubscribing is not a *big* inconvenience, but it's still an inconvenience to need to unsubscribe.  Proper protocol for newsletters is to mention them on your site and let people choose to subscribe.  People who want them will still subscribe.  People who don't...won't complain about getting spammed!


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## Mark

Elephant said:


> @Mark - as I observed before, unsubscribing is not a *big* inconvenience, but it's still an inconvenience to need to unsubscribe.





Fair enough.


How are things, btw?  Are you going to Gencon?


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## Elephant

Things could be worse.  I'm not planning on Gencon - I haven't gone since 2005.

Are you going?


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## CapnZapp

One point is also that it should be possible to unsubscribe *without accessing the newsletter at all*. (I've gotten the second newsletter, but possibly I didn't get to unchecking the box in time)

I too agree the "Allow admin emails" sounds nothing like "Allow weekly newsletters". It sounds much more like "Allow an admin to contact me in an emergency".


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## Mark

Elephant said:


> Things could be worse.  I'm not planning on Gencon - I haven't gone since 2005.
> 
> Are you going?





I'll be going this year.  Not as close as WI but still doable some years.


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## Ashtagon

As soon as I recognised it as an unsolicited email, the email went straight into my spambox, and any further emails from that address will be automatically sent their via filters too.

I appreciate that you sent a warning email. It should have contained an "opt-in" link, which I reasonably expected a sensible webmaster would have chosen to do. Apparently, it didn't even contain an "opt-out" link, judging from some other posts.

For reference, can you describe exactly how I can unsubscribe from this unsolicited email without accessing it?


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## Morrus

Ashtagon said:


> For reference, can you describe exactly how I can unsubscribe from this unsolicited email without accessing it?




See above.

1) Change your account option to say you do not want to receive emails from the admin.

or

2) Click on the "Newsletter" link on the front page of the site and use the unsubscribe option there.

or 

3) Click on the unsubscribe link in the email itself.


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## Blackrat

Eh... How about enabling this "spam"letter? I'd really like to have it but apparently us Hotmail users are excluded from your club .

My options have the Receive Email from Admin set...

No it wasn't in the spam-folder...

Yes, I'm quite sure my email account is the right one in ENW settings.


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## Dyson Logos

HinterWelt said:


> No, it is not. It is a newsletter. I would expect from the context of the check box that it would be for things like "The board will be down" or even "OMG! We are out of money time for a pledge drive!". This was unsolicited. It really was not about the administrative function of the board but as a "Nudge, Nudge, hey! Pay attention" sort thing.




At no point does it say that the admin contacting you will be administrative.

It remains that the admin sending you an emailed newsletter remains by definition well within the scope of the admin contacting you via email.


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## Dyson Logos

Blackrat said:


> Eh... How about enabling this "spam"letter? I'd really like to have it but apparently us Hotmail users are excluded from your club .




Complain to Microsoft, not to ENWorld. It's MS Hotmail that is blocking the email.


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## Morrus

Dyson Logos said:


> Complain to Microsoft, not to ENWorld. It's MS Hotmail that is blocking the email.




And it's coming _from_ a Hotmail address (I believe it's important that my own email address is the From address).


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## Dyson Logos

that's probably why it is being blocked by MS then. If the "from" line is a hotmail account, but it wasn't sent through the hotmail servers, they block it.


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## Nifft

Why do I get each letter twice?
Is it because of my alt?

Thanks, -- N


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## Umbran

Nifft said:


> Why do I get each letter twice?
> Is it because of my alt?




Well, each account must have a unique e-mail address, and we send to all accounts who receive admin e-mail.  So, the alt account is going to get it too.


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## Morrus

Nifft said:


> Why do I get each letter twice?
> Is it because of my alt?
> 
> Thanks, -- N




Yep.  If you have two accounts, you can unsubscribe from one and still receive the other.  Or get it twice, or unsubscribe from both - your choice!


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## Nifft

Umbran said:


> Well, each account must have a unique e-mail address, and we send to all accounts who receive admin e-mail.  So, the alt account is going to get it too.



 My alt and I share an email address. (It's not really used to avoid identification... the username is *Not Nifft*.)



Morrus said:


> Yep.  If you have two accounts, you can unsubscribe from one and still receive the other.  Or get it twice, or unsubscribe from both - your choice!



 Okay.

Cheers, -- N


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## HinterWelt

Dyson Logos said:


> At no point does it say that the admin contacting you will be administrative.
> 
> It remains that the admin sending you an emailed newsletter remains by definition well within the scope of the admin contacting you via email.




Then it is disingenuous, a deceptive and misleading practice. I am not the only one who believed as stated. Newsletters and solicitations should be subscribed to. 

So, I agreed to receive admin emails. Not newsletters. Not emails from vendors who pay the admin to send me emails. Not emails from porn sites that pay the admin to send me porn ads. Not emails about penis pills because the admin feels I need them. I (and even the admin agrees it was poorly worded) agreed to receive emails from an admin based on there need to let me know vital information concerning the site. I did not give them carte banche to spam me whenever they might feel the urge. It is a matter of trust.

And again, the disclaimer, this is not the end of the world. It is just not cool, wther technically or not.


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## Morrus

HinterWelt said:


> Then it is disingenuous, a deceptive and misleading practice. I am not the only one who believed as stated.




It is none of these things. It is an _honest_ attempt to provide a good and useful service.  It's not even trying to sell you anything.  Whether you personally think it may be misguided is one thing, and a perfectly reasonable position to take; calling me disingenous and deceptive is another thing entirely.

Let's refrain from personal insults, please, folks.


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## MarkB

Dyson Logos said:


> At no point does it say that the admin contacting you will be administrative.




<sarcasm>
Yeah, how on Earth could anyone jump to the conclusion that a setting allowing contact from administrators would be reserved for administrative purposes?
</sarcasm>

Seriously, whilst I have no personal objection to receiving the newsletter, I do find the suggestion that this is a legitimate channel through which to provide it to be naive at best. The "allow administrators to contact you" option is commonplace across many forums, and I have never seen it as anything but a channel for essential administrative e-mails - and, until now, never seen it used except for that purpose.


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## HinterWelt

Morrus said:


> It is none of these things. It is an _honest_ attempt to provide a good and useful service.  It's not even trying to sell you anything.  Whether you personally think it may be misguided is one thing, and a perfectly reasonable position to take; calling me disingenous and deceptive is another thing entirely.
> 
> Let's refrain from personal insults, please, folks.




I was calling the original "admin statement" disingenuous if taken in the context that the poster offered it as;i.e. "Technically" it allowed admins to contact me and therefore I had no basis for complaint if an admin sent unsolicited mail. That would been a deceptive and twisted interpretation, one you, had never engaged in.


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## frankthedm

Morrus said:


> It's not even trying to sell you anything.



 That seems to have changed.




> Adve*rtising in the Newsletter?* EN World sends out a newsletter to 80,000+ people eveyr week. If you'd like to advertise in the newsletter, please drop me an email. Only one ad will feature each week, and it is on a strictly first-come first-served basis.


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## aurance

Wow, I can't believe how crazy people are getting about this. In the sea of unsolicited spam emails about Viagra, your rich Nigerian benefactor, cheap watches, and Canadian drugs, one newsletter from a community you (in the general sense) chose to participate in with people you possibly care about that provides a free service gets you that upset? Yeah, it was unsolicited. Maybe it was a mistake. Delete the thing, turn off the option and go on your merry way. The admins don't deserve this kind of ire, cut them some slack.


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## Elephant

aurance said:


> Wow, I can't believe how crazy people are getting about this. In the sea of unsolicited spam emails about Viagra, your rich Nigerian benefactor, cheap watches, and Canadian drugs, one newsletter from a community you (in the general sense) chose to participate in with people you possibly care about that provides a free service gets you that upset? Yeah, it was unsolicited. Maybe it was a mistake. Delete the thing, turn off the option and go on your merry way. The admins don't deserve this kind of ire, cut them some slack.




Wrong.  Just because sleazier things exist doesn't excuse rude behavior.

As I noted earlier, my time is a precious commodity.  Wasting even five seconds of it is unacceptable and something any reputable site should strain to avoid.

Opt-in newsletters can be useful.  Opt-out newsletters are spam.  Simple as that.

Edit:  As for the admins, maybe I'd agree that they don't deserve my ire if they _refrained from spamming me_.


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## Morrus

OK, folks, let's cut down on the emotive language and hyperbole, please.  Act in this thread as you would in any other.  "Meta" doesn't mean "Doesn't follow the same rules as the rest of the site".


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## CapnZapp

Hi Morrus,

Let's cut to the chase:

Are you going to backpedal on your decision to send out the newsletter to all forumites, or are you going to ignore the complaints?

Feel free to simply answer yes or no and then lock this thread.

Sorry for being so direct; but if you aren't going to listen to your userbase, what is a waste of time is this thread. And if you do listen; I would be surprised if anything more needs to be said: the spamletter move was ill-advised, that's all.

Best regards,
CapnZapp


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## Morrus

CapnZapp said:


> Are you going to backpedal on your decision to send out the newsletter to all forumites, or are you going to ignore the complaints?




I am going to do _neither_ of those things.  Fortunately, the world is not a binary place, and I choose the third option which you didn't give me: I have listened to and discussed the complaints and respectfully disagreed.  I have also listed to the many people who_ like_ the letter, and who emailed me disappointed that they didn't receive it the week the were having technical issues.



> Feel free to simply answer yes or no and then lock this thread.




We mods will decide when/if the thread needs to be locked.


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## Sammael

I'd just like to point out that, while sending the newsletter with an opt out is generally bad form, I wasn't too bothered by it - until I saw the advertising quote on the previous page, which prompted me to unscubscribe immediately.


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## aurance

Okay, well, as a purely personal counterpoint, and as part of the userbase, let me just say - feel free to send me as many site or game-related emails as you wish, and I will just opt out of any I don't feel like seeing any more. If at any time I feel hassled by these, I know I have the option to shut these off entirely just by going to my account settings. I feel this is such a miniscule "price" to pay (if it can be called such at all) for participating in this community.


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