# Best Cleric race? (sorry if this is in the wrong forum)



## Reidentski

IAs the title says i'm sorry if this is in the wrong section of the forums. i haven't learned exactly where to go. Anyway, i've just started a campaign with some friends and i was wondering about what race is the best for a cleric or just in general the best ways to have a cleric. i know this information may be subjective and regardless of which i play i should just have fun, BUT i'd like to make myself the best cleric i could. We're starting from level 1. so if anyone has any info on this or can direct me to a link with this information i'd greatly apreciate it.

its been somewhat difficult finding this kind of information, i gues its cause i'm new to D&D. thanks again for any assistance in this matter.


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## Klaus

First and foremost, you need a race with +2 to Wisdom. This points you toward dwarf, elf, shifters and (possibly) human.

Of these races, the dwarf's other abilities best complement a cleric's abilities (minor action for second wind, high Con, dwarf weapon training for those classic cleric hammers, etc).

So, without more information, a dwarf cleric would be a solid way to go.


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## Reidentski

thats what i was thinking. i started as a dwarf, but seeing as this is our first time playing our DM is being kind enough to let us alter things prior to lvl 3 or so cause he wants us to be happy with what we're doing. i've unfortunately been wishy washy about it and gone from dwarf to human and thought about going elf. But it did seem like dwarf was the clear choice, even tho Human's got the exra powers and all, i wasn't sure how curcial of a thing that was. i'd guess at first its nice to have but the only good out of it would be twards the extra feats so i'd be closer to other ones as i level (if this is even the right train of thought)

We're using more of the traditional races/classes for our first time so i know nothing about shifters, But Dwarf did seem like a clear choice for the reasons u suggested. such as having second wind as a minor which would help towards Life transference combo and as u said the extra CON. i'm not really aware of how important training in hammers is for me. i'd be playing a devouted/shielding cleric, although i'm not sure if battle cleric would be the best choice (prefernce aside). at the moment our grp consists of an Elf guardian fighter, elf ranger, eladrin wizard, and a halfling sorceror so i didn't see a oint in me being a battle cleric unless i just don't have the foresight to know why i should be.


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## LightPhoenix

It depends on the Cleric, since it depends on if you'll be using powers that primarily key off of Strength or Wisdom.

Personally, I think the best race for Clerics is the Kalashtar, from Eberron.  They get a bonus to Wisdom and Charisma.  Dual Soul is great for trying to recover a turn from dazed, especially if the entire party got tagged by an attack.  Bastion of Mental Clarity isn't great for the Cleric (Will is likely to be high anyway), but it's great for everyone in the group with low Will defenses.

From just the PHB, I'd have to agree on the Dwarf.  They have a much better defensive base than the others.  Elf is an interesting choice; Elven Accuracy can prevent you from wasting a _Healing Strike_ or similar power.  They're highly mobile as well, which is nice for a healer.  However, the rest of their stuff isn't as useful.  Human works okay, but having the extra at-will isn't as useful as having the extra feat.  Dragonborn is an interesting choice for Strength-based Clerics, especially coupled with _Recovery Strike_ (Cha secondary effect) from DP.

[edit]


> i'd be playing a devouted/shielding cleric, although i'm not sure if battle cleric would be the best choice (prefernce aside).




Honestly, from my experience watching my friend play his Cleric, it won't matter terribly.  They seem to pretty fairly decent in combat regardless of the type of Cleric played.  My friend was a healing Cleric, and he still dished out damage.


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## Akaiku

Longtooth shifter is a +2 str +2 wis, great if you want to split the stat v. Plus, regeneration whilst bloodied is rather useful.


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## Thanee

That also depends on whether you want to go melee or ranged.

Dwarf is certainly a good race for pretty much anything, as their racial traits are just extremely good.

Human is always a solid choice, but most useful, if you really want three of the At-Wills, which I just don't see for a Cleric (maybe to get Righteous Brand, Sacred Flame, and Astral Seal).

Elf is a great choice for a ranged Cleric (my favorite combination, really). The DEX bonus is useful to keep the attribute in the range you need for Armor Specialization later (11th+). Elven Accuracy is amongst the most useful racial powers around. Extra movement is always good. Bonuses to Perception (especially coupled with a high WIS) are also very nice (I also like to take the Ranger Multiclass to gain Perception as a trained skill).

Longtooth Shifters are an extremely good match for melee Clerics with STR/WIS bonuses and an amazing racial power (esp. once you get to Life Transference ).

Bye
Thanee


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## Shin Okada

As already pointed out, it depends on how you build your cleric.

Strength Cleric, Wisdom Cleric, & Str + Wis Cleric are all viable choices.

At this moment, if you want to use both Strength and Wisdom powers, Longtooth Shifter is the best choice.

For Strength Cleric, I go for Human as you can live just with Strength. Extra at-will power may not be that much useful. But extra skill and feat (usually spent on Action Surge) are useful. Though, most other Str +2 races are good, too.

For Wisdom Cleric, my favorite choice is Elf. Elven Accuracy helps much when you need to hit opponent at critical moment. As a leader, it often happens that you must hit the foe to give beneficial effects on your comrades in critical timing. And, being fast is always good. Another square of movement may catch an opponent in the range of your power.


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## DracoSuave

Devas also make -excellent- laser clerics.  The extra defense against bloodied foes, combined with the Elven Accuracy-like racial, and the resistances combine into a very sweet package.  

For a strength based cleric, you can't go wrong with Goliaths or Warforged.  

For my money tho, Dwarves have so much upside it's not even funny.  Grab a Crusader's Hammer/Avenger's Hammer, and DWT your way into success.


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## Neuroglyph

I always find it a little sad that so many are obsessed with finding the "best" race for a particular class.

I agree with many others here that the "best" race is almost certainly a dwarf due to the statitic bonuses and the racial abilities.  

But remember that D&D is a role-playing game, and with that said, any race can be the "best" race if you look beyond mere stats and abilities.  Play a race because it interests you, or because you can imagine a great story behind why a more unlikely race has become a cleric, and then you'll have something memorable.  Don't get so wrapped up in game mechanics that you ignore the possibility that a race/class combination can be more fun to play than the expected one.


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## Reidentski

For what its worth Neuroglyph, i firmly agree with u about playing the game and enjoying it and having a story and all. and when my group and i get to a point where we're all comfortable with the game thats what i'd like to do. personally i've always loved the Half elf aspect. but for now i'd like to just go w/ the standard best and when all of us get our feet wet, i won't care as much.

But your words are extremely true =) three cheers imo.


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## AbdulAlhazred

Neuroglyph has a point. Even if you don't really consider it from an RP perspective the WORST race you can pick combined with the WORST build of cleric for that race will still be a good character. 4e is just designed like that. Run what's fun for you and don't worry about it too much. If you were an eladrin with DEX/INT stat bonuses you'll still be a good cleric and you could still get good use out of your racial power and the various racial feats.

All that being said, dwarves do have a lot going for them and they'll have a small edge vs other races with a primarily STR based cleric. The cleric in our game is human but started with a 20 STR and really does seriously good melee damage (and then slaps a +4 to-hit the same enemy onto the dwarf fighter, ouch).


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## UngeheuerLich

hey, int is the relevant attribute for religion, and a longsword and dexterity for HBO comes in quite handy 

teleort is never bad and also extra defenses vs charm effects are quite useful. So even without racial feats, you can hold up with the rest of the group.

an array to consider would be (16,12,12,10,16,8) or somethink like that. Pick up shield as soon as possible or eladrin soldier for great spear and scale and scale expertise and HBO at paragon levels.


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## Klaus

One oft-overlooked cleric race is dragonborn. Str/Cha makes it perfect for battle clerics. You can focus on fire/radiant for your powers and breath weapon, and Battle Cleric Armaments gives you proficiency in light shields and one martial weapon (longsword fits in well).


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## Akaiku

As a side note, a 16 with an implement stat is somewhat harsh going, speaking as a 3rd level cleric with said bonus.


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## UngeheuerLich

Yes, you have to be a bit careful with said stats, because you can´t compensate with better proficiency bonus.
But you can try to focus on prayers which have an effect line and attack different defenses.


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## Akaiku

UngeheuerLich said:


> But you can try to focus on prayers which have an effect line and attack different defenses.




You will still suck at hitting, is the thing.

You can make the whole hitting thing less important, but you still are in a bad way. Distant advantage+astral seal is accurate, for instance, but occasionally something cool is vs fort, which you miss usually.


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## Zustiur

UngeheuerLich said:


> Yes, you have to be a bit careful with said stats, because you can´t compensate with better proficiency bonus.




I second this. I had a dragonborn cleric with 16 str and 16 wis. He was terribly un-fun to play. 

I've been going over the cleric in detail in the last few days, and here is what I'd take for level 1:

Human Cleric
Str 10
Con 13
Dex 8
Int 10
Wis 18 + 2 (human stat) = 20
Cha 13

At wills: Lance of Faith, Sacred Flame, Astral Seal
Encounter: Divine Glow
Daily: Beacon of Hope
Feat: Melee training (wis) or Defensive Healing or Shielding Word (the last two appear to be basically identical).
Skills: Religion, Heal, Insight, History, Diplomacy

I haven't had the chance to actually try this cleric out, but I consider it to be the 'best' build for a number of reasons. Your mileage and opinion will of course vary from mine. I'll outline some of my reasoning here:
1) I don't play in an Eberron game, so Kalashtar are not available to me. Other than Wis and Cha I don't like their racial abilities anyway.
2) A cleric which tries to use strength attacks is effectively forced to reduce their healing power by reducing wisdom.
3) Melee Training gives the best of both worlds - you don't have any melee powers, but you still get +5 to hit and +5 damage whenever you find yourself in combat - essentially like having 20 strength!
4) After the first round of combat, being high in the initiative order is essentially moot. As a healer, your 'best' place in the initiative order is after the monsters, but before your companions. The easiest way to achieve this is to be last in the round. Having a low dex can actually be beneficial in this way.
5) I'd like higher charisma, but I feel it's over-rated. I've built this cleric to level 6, and at that level only 3 powers use charisma. Sacred flame (where it adds to temporary hit points), Turn undead (which doesn't bother me much as it only affects the push distance), and Consecrated ground (which is a daily, and easy to replace if it isn't working well)
6) I considered a dwarf, but as I'd be building a ranged 'laser' cleric, I don't expect to take enough damage for second wind as a minor action to be worthwhile. Nor do I expect to use melee weapons often so dwarven weapons aren't any real help.
7) I considered elf but with 20 wis (and implement expertise later), I don't expect missing to really be a problem. Their other abilities didn't seem overly helpful when compared with Astral Seal and the other bonuses from being human.
8) The extreme wisdom is taken for other benefits rather than for damage - the ability to hit frequently (thus applying buffs or de-buffs) and the additional healing are imperative if you want to be a particularly good leader.

My biggest concerns with this build are the low defenses you end up with from only having +1 in the Str/Con line and 0 from the Dex/Int line. You may feel it is wiser to drop a point or two from Wisdom to gain +2 in one or both of the other lines. I rounded out his ranged ability by giving him a hand crossbow for the odd situation where moving and 5 range isn't enough.

*IF* I built a strength based cleric, I'd really skimp on wisdom, and focus on strength. As an experiment I rebuilt my original dragonborn cleric based on this concept, and ended up with a mere 13 wisdom. What's more I didn't boost his wisdom until level 12 - but there I was essentially building a cleric defender rather than a cleric leader.


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## Thanee

Akaiku said:


> As a side note, a 16 with an implement stat is somewhat harsh going, speaking as a 3rd level cleric with said bonus.




Yep, my elven cleric started with WIS 20, and it still doesn't feel like I would hit as easy as the weapon wielders. 

Bye
Thanee


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## Klaus

One thing to note is that you don't want a Str/Wis race. You want a Str/Cha race or a Wis/Cha race. If you go Str/Wis, you'll likely lack the Cha to make use of rider effects.


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## eamon

The character builder's "auto-pick" stat array is a good default choice.  It picks 18,14,11,10,10,8 for all class/race combo's.  In my experience it can certainly be worth spreading your stats out more, but if you don't know what you want, focus is a good thing.

The easiest way to render _any_ character ineffective and frustratingly unfun is by trying to do everything at once and spreading yourself too thin.  Whatever you do, pick _one_ build and _one _thing and focus on those _first_.  If you can get some extras by choosing a 13/13 instead of 14/11, or by going lowering the 18 a bit, that's fine - but be aware that your primary stat has a huge impact on your character - one defense, to-hit and damage.  Sometimes sacrificing those three things is worth it - but at least consider what you're losing when you do.

*Edit: *I don't mean to suggest you absolutely need 18/14 and a race that boosts primary+secondary.  18/14 and no further boosts is playable.  But less than an 18 and no racial +2 is generally noticeably weak.  Thus, picking a race that at least has a +2 to your primary stat is a wise thing to do.

So, I'd recommend against the Str/Wis cleric unless you love character optimization and are comparing it to other builds.


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## Storminator

Klaus said:


> One thing to note is that you don't want a Str/Wis race. You want a Str/Cha race or a Wis/Cha race. If you go Str/Wis, you'll likely lack the Cha to make use of rider effects.




My dwarf cleric dumped Cha for an 18 Str and 15 Wis (after bonus) and he's hugely effective. I think a Wis/Cha cleric would be better, but I spend my life giving Righteous Brand bonii to strikers, flanking for the rogue, throwing in a Divine Glow wherever there's a lot of guys standing (it hurts, it buffs! it doesn't matter if it's enemies or allies or mixed in the grouping...) and healing like crazy. Thrrak's not optimal, but he's good enough to get the job done.

PS


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## Reidentski

i couldn't find who said it to quote them here, nor can i recall the specific name of the feat, but the feats where u train ur melee attacks towards a specific atribute (i.e. cha, wis, etc) i don't have the book or character builder on hand to refer to it, but iknow these feats say u can use said atribute as ur modifier for ur basic melee attacks and attacks. does that mean it would be my modifier for say healing strike? (i.e. if i picked the wisdom training would i be able to use my wis modifier over str for when i hit my target with healing strike?) or is it simply just letting me use wisdom as the modifier in normal attacks like a basic melee and etc? sry, hope that made sense ^^;


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## CovertOps

Reidentski said:


> i couldn't find who said it to quote them here, nor can i recall the specific name of the feat, but the feats where u train ur melee attacks towards a specific atribute (i.e. cha, wis, etc) i don't have the book or character builder on hand to refer to it, but iknow these feats say u can use said atribute as ur modifier for ur basic melee attacks and attacks. does that mean it would be my modifier for say healing strike? (i.e. if i picked the wisdom training would i be able to use my wis modifier over str for when i hit my target with healing strike?) or is it simply just letting me use wisdom as the modifier in normal attacks like a basic melee and etc? sry, hope that made sense ^^;




They are as a group called "Melee Training" and they only apply to "Basic Melee Attacks" so no you cannot use WIS for your STR based Cleric powers...if only!!!!!

On another note I found the STR/WIS Cleric build to be very effective by about level 8.  Built with a Shifter and starting stats of 16/16* -> 18/18 after racial modifiers you pick up Bastard Sword, Scale, Plate, Light Shield, and Heavy Shield you have a near defender AC with monster damage (+5 after stat bumps 4/8) and Leader buffs to boot.  Add in Weapon Focus and the ever popular IAoP and you're doing 1d10+8 with at-wills and you're granting +5 to hit to a friend or some temp HPs.

*You'll need to put at least a 13 or 15 CON to get all the Armor feats, but it's well worth it.  You might have to go with 13 CON and wait till 21 to get Plate, but that's only 1 AC bump and you can still get the other 3.

Edit:  This also allows you to effectively use the WIS based powers if you want to pick up a few as your STR/WIS are the same.


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## Reidentski

Ah ok, thanks. i was pretty sure that was going to be the answer to my question, but i saw no harm in getting an answer from more experienced minds of them game =) thanks alot.


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## Turtlejay

Halfling is the best race for cleric.

Whatever race does what you want is the best race.  I wanted a Cleric that had mobility and was a non-typical cleric, so he was Pacifist Cleric multi rogue, the feat that allows you to add Cha to your defenses for OA once an encounter.  That is what *I* wanted.

If you want a cleric that hands out bonuses like a tactical warlord, go strength based, shifter is good for that because you still want some wisdom for it's healing bonus.  If you want a cleric that just stands in the back and zaps things, Elf is good, it has the right stat, and elven accuracy can turn a miss into a hit on that all important daily.

Such justifications can be made for *any* race, but it depends largely on what you want to do in combat.

Jay


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## renau1g

Another cool race is the Goliaths for a melee-based STR cleric. I played one in my home game and had great fun, using a two-handed Maul with the goliath waepon training feat and 18 STR, I was doing 2d6+5 on at-will and granting ally bonus to hit, with Righteous Brand.


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## Garrett Bishop

*New Question*

Hi All,

My question is...well, first of all let me start out with this:

I was just asked to join a Game with no dedicated healer. (Just a Paladin)

 The DM is starting us at lvl 11 with a 24 Point Buy. The game setting is basically all Undead, Demons etc. 

I was wondering what race/class combo would excel at healing, while not have to be standing at the back end of the party? I'm accustomed to Front line types of characters, so I want something that will allow me to dish out a good amount of damage while healing/protecting/buffing the party as well.

Is there even such a build? (Doesn't have to be a Cleric)

What I am currently working on is a Deva Templar Cleric. But after reading all the great advice here, I am sure Deva is NOT the race to go with. 

Thoughts?

Thanks in Advance
Garrett


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## AbdulAlhazred

Garrett Bishop said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My question is...well, first of all let me start out with this:
> 
> I was just asked to join a Game with no dedicated healer. (Just a Paladin)
> 
> The DM is starting us at lvl 11 with a 24 Point Buy. The game setting is basically all Undead, Demons etc.
> 
> I was wondering what race/class combo would excel at healing, while not have to be standing at the back end of the party? I'm accustomed to Front line types of characters, so I want something that will allow me to dish out a good amount of damage while healing/protecting/buffing the party as well.
> 
> Is there even such a build? (Doesn't have to be a Cleric)
> 
> What I am currently working on is a Deva Templar Cleric. But after reading all the great advice here, I am sure Deva is NOT the race to go with.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> Garrett




Some things HAVE changed since '09. More races have WIS bonus possibilities now than back then. The Warpriest (Essentials cleric) has pretty well replaced the STR cleric. Race is still pretty much whatever gives you a good WIS bonus can be worked with. Given you'll probably be more in the 'laser' category with a straight PHB1 type cleric now Dwarf, Minotaur, and Goliath may have lost some luster, though they are fine warpriests. Half-elf, drow, hamadryad all get WIS/CHA. Deva is still pretty good since it has some nice racial stuff. Of course the Dwarf is going to be pretty much the toughest, so you may still want to go with that, minor action SW is pretty awesome. There just isn't a LOT of reason to stand up front as a templar. You can of course still build a straight up STR cleric for that, but a dwarf warpriest would probably be the best possible frontline cleric.


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## Neonchameleon

Garrett Bishop said:


> Hi All,
> 
> My question is...well, first of all let me start out with this:
> 
> I was just asked to join a Game with no dedicated healer. (Just a Paladin)
> 
> The DM is starting us at lvl 11 with a 24 Point Buy. The game setting is basically all Undead, Demons etc.
> 
> I was wondering what race/class combo would excel at healing, while not have to be standing at the back end of the party? I'm accustomed to Front line types of characters, so I want something that will allow me to dish out a good amount of damage while healing/protecting/buffing the party as well.
> 
> Is there even such a build? (Doesn't have to be a Cleric)
> 
> What I am currently working on is a Deva Templar Cleric. But after reading all the great advice here, I am sure Deva is NOT the race to go with.
> 
> Thoughts?
> 
> Thanks in Advance
> Garrett




If you want to frontline as a cleric there's now close combat powers you can steal from the warpriest.  But from what you've said, I think the class you want to be playing is the Warlord and possibly even a Bravura Warlord (think Leonidas from 300, leading from the front and giving inspiring speeches).  The Bravura Warlord even offers openings to draw the enemy off balance so someone else can slip in and eviscerate them while they are off balance.

But Warlords are  a little party-dependent (do other people have good basic attacks?) so what else is in your party would help.


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## Dr_Ruminahui

AbdulAlhazred said:


> The Warpriest (Essentials cleric) has pretty well replaced the STR cleric.




I would agree with this comment but for the (relatively) recent Dragon article for the battle cleric - which gives strength clerics access to better armour and some pretty potent powers when using a mace or other simple melee weapon.


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## AbdulAlhazred

Dr_Ruminahui said:


> I would agree with this comment but for the (relatively) recent Dragon article for the battle cleric - which gives strength clerics access to better armour and some pretty potent powers when using a mace or other simple melee weapon.




Yeah, I haven't played the STR cleric in a bit. Not sure how much that changes the equation. The Warpriest has a couple inherent advantages though. Its powers are all WIS based being the main one. You can use a lot of the nice WIS based powers and you still have good melee effectiveness. You do lose out on the STR powers, but you can either still have a good STR, or just ignore them, as the WIS based ones are generally better all around. The difference isn't huge though. Personally I always liked the STR cleric anyway.


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## Jonathan Boggs

Ok, so I would like to be a cleric, could I maybe do a high elf? I have been a high elf ranger before, so I thought could I also be An high elf cleric?


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## AbdulAlhazred

Jonathan Boggs said:


> Ok, so I would like to be a cleric, could I maybe do a high elf? I have been a high elf ranger before, so I thought could I also be An high elf cleric?




You can be an elf cleric, sure. Its a WIS/INT +DEX race, not a STR race, so you could do something a bit different. For instance you could wear Hide armor and have a fairly high DEX (+2 DEX will give you an extra point of AC in Hide, which will actually boost your AC, though if you don't keep pumping that DEX you will eventually lose the advantage). There is, IIRC an Sehanine cleric option that uses a bow too, though I'm not exactly sure how that works... 

Anyway, you'll be a quick elf, which won't hurt you, and you do get a WIS bonus, so its a perfectly good race choice for a cleric. Build more of a 'laser' type build, with lots of ranged powers, you can even get away with lighter armor if you want. There's always fun things out there to try.


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## Jonathan Boggs

AbdulAlhazred said:


> You can be an elf cleric, sure. Its a WIS/INT +DEX race, not a STR race, so you could do something a bit different. For instance you could wear Hide armor and have a fairly high DEX (+2 DEX will give you an extra point of AC in Hide, which will actually boost your AC, though if you don't keep pumping that DEX you will eventually lose the advantage). There is, IIRC an Sehanine cleric option that uses a bow too, though I'm not exactly sure how that works...
> 
> Anyway, you'll be a quick elf, which won't hurt you, and you do get a WIS bonus, so its a perfectly good race choice for a cleric. Build more of a 'laser' type build, with lots of ranged powers, you can even get away with lighter armor if you want. There's always fun things out there to try.




Thank you very much!


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## Trebloc

Hard to beat Humans most of the time, but I enjoy Dwarven clerics.  Bump to CON is nice.  Losing CHA isn't a big deal.


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