# Maps/Tiles or Dry/Wet Erase?



## Reynard (Jul 27, 2011)

Just out of curiosity, do you tend to use pre-printed maps, tiles or boards, or "clean" dry/wet erase mats that you draw? If the former, are they purchased or DIY? If the latter, do you draw them beforehand or during play? Of course, "none of the above" or "other" work fine as answers, as well.

For my part, even though I went out and specifically bought the Master Tiles from WotC (PF GM, but tiles is tiles) I have never used them. I tend to use a wet erase board and draw as the game goes on. I tried preprinting large scale maps (I work at a place with a large scale printer) but I found I preferred drawing. I can only draw to the extent of vision, for example, rather than either revealing the whole thing or using paper to over unrevealed areas.


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## Holy Bovine (Jul 27, 2011)

Paizo Flip mats are pretty much all I'll use from now on.  You can use dry or wet erase and they come (for the most part) with one side having a kick ass pre-printed map and the other side a 'blank' of the flooring style depicted on the other side.  Some see this as a bug but it is a feature rest assured.


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## Hand of Evil (Jul 27, 2011)

I use a couple of things, first lazy DM so I go to threads like: http://www.enworld.org/forum/media-...stuff/300141-map-monday-julys-maps-added.html
use the map and place it on my iPad.  From there I use any of the "art/note" apps to open the map and then draw on the map.   

On the desktop, I found a dry erase board 3X4 that I laid down a grid on.


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## Stormonu (Jul 27, 2011)

Unfortunately, I've now ruined 3 chexxex mats with wet erase markers (and one accidental use of a dry erase marker), so I've sworn off their use.

I have the WotC tiles and like to use them, but I haven't found a good way to organize them so I can get at them quickly.  Likewise, I also like the Paizo flipmats, but they tend to be specialized and don't see a lot of use.

As an aside, I also have a lot of Dwarven Forge blocks, having built up quite a collection before the WotC tiles come out.  They are quite gorgeous, but a pain in the neck to set up - I don't use them much anymore except when I have a set piece dungeon or I'm setting up a special game at a Con.


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## falcarrion (Jul 27, 2011)

no matter what you use just put a peice of plexiglass over it.
for example : set up the tiles and put the plexiglass over it. Then you can use dry erase pens on the plexiglass.

for mats you can draw on them and place the plexiglass over it or just draw on the plexglass with mat underneath it as a grid guide.

If you use the wrong type of pens on a mat try hand sanitizer to remove the ink.

The plexiglass also works if you place it over a whiteboard if you use a projector setup.


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## S'mon (Jul 27, 2011)

I have spent around £150 on WoTC tiles, yet in practice I find them too onerous to use 95% of the time, so I typically (ca 80% of recent games) use a blank Paizo dry-erase flipmat and draw the battle site in-play, which I find quick and easy to do, it only takes a few seconds whereas it would take me minutes to assemble a scene in play with WoTC tiles.

I also use (ca 15% of the time) Paizo pre-printed dry erase flipmats, mostly the generic wilderness scenes.


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## Sammael (Jul 27, 2011)

S'mon said:


> I have spent around £150 on WoTC tiles, yet in practice I find them too onerous to use 95% of the time, so I typically (ca 80% of recent games) use a blank Paizo dry-erase flipmat and draw the battle site in-play, which I find quick and easy to do, it only takes a few seconds whereas it would take me minutes to assemble a scene in play with WoTC tiles.



Same here. I have a bunch of tiles, but I hardly ever use them anymore. Flipmats are the way to go.


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## Jhaelen (Jul 27, 2011)

I use a mix of poster maps, dungeon tiles, and dry-erase battlemats (in that order of preference).

Poster maps are brilliant if they happen to be close to what I need. I often 'mod' them by placing dungeon tiles on top or folding them differently. When I design my own adventures, I always try to make use of them as much as possible.

Most of the dungeon tiles are too fiddly - I'll never understand why they didn't create more sets configured like 'Ruins of the Wild'. If I use them, I plan exactly how I'm going to use them beforehand and make a photo of the setup.

Battlemats are the last resort if nothing else is close to the map I need for an (important) encounter. This is almost exclusively the case when playing official adventure modules for D&D 3e/4e.

I don't print maps since it's too expensive for my taste.


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## Kerranin (Jul 27, 2011)

I like to use the flip-mats, but I also use gaming paper for large complex maps I want to have pre-drawn. The gaming paper comes in 30" x 12' rolls for a reasonable price, and has a 1 inch-square grid printed on it.

The real advantage for gaming paper is that I can sit and draw out large numbers of maps, have them prepared, but even so can still bring them along because they are lightweight and fold easily.


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## Pentius (Jul 27, 2011)

I tend to use pieces of grid paper(1 inch squares) with stuff drawn on them.  I tend to use these because I can acquire them cheaply in bulk(read: my brother printed them out at work, now I have a stack).  If I were going to spend some money on it, I'd use either a dry erase board or a chessex mat.


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## S'mon (Jul 27, 2011)

Kerranin said:


> I like to use the flip-mats, but I also use gaming paper for large complex maps I want to have pre-drawn. The gaming paper comes in 30" x 12' rolls for a reasonable price, and has a 1 inch-square grid printed on it.
> 
> The real advantage for gaming paper is that I can sit and draw out large numbers of maps, have them prepared, but even so can still bring them along because they are lightweight and fold easily.




I think I might pick up some gaming paper when I'm up at Leisure Games this August.  My thinking is that I could use it to pre-draw areas for published adventures, especially for areas that are complex and/or are likely to see repeated use.  

I'll have to consider price vs utility though, and the question arises: If I am going to take the time to pre-draw maps on paper, could I not pre-stick dungeon tiles to cardboard & get something prettier, if less accurate?


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## Nilbog (Jul 27, 2011)

Dungeon Tiles for me, I have a fair few sets and I find they really add to the game.  I prepare the encounter map when I build the encounter and blu-tak the tiles to a bit of card (generally A3) then transport them to the game in an art folder. 

I find this approach works well for me, as I'm not great at drawing maps on flipmats etc (left handed, smudginess everywhere!!), and I found it was taking me too long, leading to players losing focus.  

The downsides i think to this are its not easy to represent unusual locations (such as planar encounters) and the fact that as players tend to do they find encounters they i hadn't planned for!


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## IronWolf (Jul 27, 2011)

Paizo Flip mats and a Chessex battle mat. Wet Erase for both.


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## Sammael (Jul 27, 2011)

I bought some gaming paper a while ago and it's not bad, but it's really prone to smudging and any grease or sweat on the fingers will really ruin your map. Plus, international shipping was really expensive.


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## JediSoth (Jul 27, 2011)

I usually use Tact-Tiles, but I also have a bunch of Paizo Flipmats and some other poster-size maps. I prefer dry erase, and won't use wet erase. I'm looking forward to seeing how Crayola Dry Erase Crayons work versus standard dry erase markers. My preliminary tests show that accidental erasing is MUCH more difficult, though it's still pretty easy to erase on purpose and way less messy that any kind of marker.


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## SnowleopardVK (Jul 27, 2011)

I was able to buy a big roll-up dry erase mat from my FLGS.

The owner was planning to replace his old one. I saw it rolled up behind the counter one day and asked if they sold that type of mat there, they didn't, but he offered that specific one to me at a discount.

It's in pretty good shape. It's tough to erase sometimes, and a slow process especially mid-session when I have to get rid of old lines to put in new ones. It's been good to me though. I was lucky to have been in the store and spotted it.


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## Agamon (Jul 27, 2011)

Tact-Tiles pretty exclusively.  Wet erase is messy.  I have some Dungeon Tiles, I sometimes use smaller pieces as furniture, etc on the Tact-Tiles, set up with DTs isn't very effeicient.


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## thedungeondelver (Jul 27, 2011)

Some us, of course, have found a third way.


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## jcayer (Jul 27, 2011)

I've tried a lot of those.  We started with a dry erase board and the occasional cardboard cut out.  Moved on to dundjinni and printed out the maps, taping them together.  That was too much effort.  I looked at the Wizard's tiles, but found them too limiting.  We had used mini's up to this point.  Then everyone chipped in and we bought a projector.
First we mounted it over our heads and used the mini's.  Too many shadows.  Somewhere in here, we switched to Maptools as one of our player's travels a lot now.
Now we're projecting it on the wall using the tokens built into maptools.  We like the big giant picture, but I miss the looking around the table thing.
So now I'm building a multitouch table.  Here is a link in case anyone is interested.  I plan to start a thread when I get a little further along.
MT Table


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## dagger (Jul 27, 2011)

We don't use either.

We use a Chessex battle mat with a thin sheet of Plexi glass over it. Same mat since the early 90's and it still looks brand new. We have replaced the Plexi 4 times over the years, and each time its cheap.

You can use wet erase on the plexi I guess, but we just use grease pencils, no liquids needed.

If we have special maps and stuff we just put them under the Plexi.


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## Cor Azer (Jul 27, 2011)

I have a Chessex map, but I rarely use it now. I just have a large pad of inch-grid graph paper and draw out my maps ahead of time.

To avoid line of sight/fog of war issues, I'll sometimes cut up the bug maps into smaller chunks, so I don't have to lay it all out at once.

One of my players had an old blueprint tube and gave it to me, so I have a nice bug case for carrying them all around.


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## the Jester (Jul 27, 2011)

Either a battlemat or custom maps for the adventure. 

I do not like Dungeon Tiles much at all, and absolutely hate how they have crowded out a lot of good cartography.


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## Oryan77 (Jul 27, 2011)

I used to use wet erase mats until I got tiles. Then I used the tiles on top of the mats (keeps them from sliding and you can still draw or write on the mats if you need).

I got tact-tiles thinking that I would use them. But the dry erase seemed more annoying to clean than the wet erase, and players complained that the markers smell a lot stronger. I only used them a couple of times. I've been thinking about selling them.

I now use a VTT setup with Maptool that is really impressive. The only thing is that I'm a graphic artist and it is hard for me to "settle" for maps to use with it. If I'm going to use an HD TV for this, I want high quality graphics. So I'm finding myself making most of my maps since I run a lot of old modules and can't find decent maps for them.

So now I'm thinking about selling all of my tiles and I suppose the storage bins I custom made for them:

http://www.enworld.org/forum/4981334-post35.html


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## jimmifett (Jul 27, 2011)

My primary is a chessex, in excellent condition. I keep it in a extendable blueprint tube, wrapped around a carboard tube for storage.

Also have a couple paizo flip mats, but i don't like how hard it is for them to lay flat.

I have a ton of poster maps that I have laminated and rolled into tubes. I need a solution to store them unrolled, as the don't always lay flat.

Have a ton of dungeon tiles, at least 2 or more of every set (trying for 4 of every set). I store them in gallon ziplock freezer bags, 1 bag for each sheet, grouped by set, and meticulously labeled with a printout legend with each bag. Took a few days to sort everything out, but now my system works well for finding the pieces I need.

I still have some gaming paper, but the cost to replace makes me hesitate to use it. Great for pre-making maps tho and placing pre-drawn rooms as explored. I've considered creating generic tiles and laminating them. Not sure how they'd like being laminated (heat). Also thought of printing on them, but not sure how that would end up either.

I'm working towards a multitouch table as a go forward mapping solution.


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## Tamlyn (Jul 27, 2011)

I use my Chessex mat or pre-printed (I create them with Excel) maps when I think minis are going to be necessary. Otherwise I have a bunch of graph paper I bring with me. But I've been wanting to try battlemappr for a little while.

I will also steal heavily from anything online I can find. My current favorite is davesmapper. And I've even found & used a map of the Savannah, GA sewer system from 1880 that worked really well. I think we spent 10 sessions referring to that map.


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## Argyle King (Jul 27, 2011)

At home I have two things I use.  One is a large dry erase board which I framed into a small table.  The second is a portable folding table which I bought from WalMart; the material it is made out of is able to be drawn on with wet erase and dry erase markers.

Marker-wise, I tend to favor wet erase markers, but I do also use dry erase sometimes.


For on the go, I have a piece of poster board upon which I placed a sheet of large graph paper, and then had Staples laminate the paper onto the board.  It works very well, is lightweight, and was also cheaper than WoTC tiles.

I use wet erase markers with my portable solution.



Occasionally, I will also use large sheets of paper.  Typically, I do this when I want a more permanent map for something such as the layout of the local inn or part of a castle or whatever.

With this, I use various things ranging from pencil to pen to crayon.


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## Keeper of Secrets (Jul 28, 2011)

I use a combination of everything mentioned - Chessex, gaming paper, tact-tiles and the WotC tiles.  

Since I run a supers game, mostly, I don't get to use the WotC stuff as much (but sewers and dungeons do appear from time to time).  With the gaming paper, I have made city parks, hotel lobbies and stuff like that - things that are likely to get repeated use.

Since the characters have an abandoned Cathedral as their hideout, I bought the Paizo map for that.  There is also a theater/opera house I invested in and some other things which are easily adaptable to a modern day setting.

If I were running D&D, I would probably get a roll or two of gaming paper to design some battle fields of something like that and then I would try to use WotC tiles and Chessex for ease of use.


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## Waylander the Slayer (Jul 28, 2011)

I've found tiles like the ones put forth by Paizo and WOTC  to be impractical to use unless you set up a scenario beforehand.

 An old friend stole my Tact-tiles. 

I currently use the Magna-Map Combat Grid and it's awesome. It's heavier, almost metallic, stays flat, plus you can get any object to stick to it by adding a magnetic base! 

I recently ordered TerraClips buildings and streets set. Hopefully, they are as awesome and easy as they look in the videos posted [how awesome would it be to build out any building by clipping together a few pieces?].


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## Alan Shutko (Jul 28, 2011)

Stormonu said:


> Unfortunately, I've now ruined 3 chexxex mats with wet erase markers (and one accidental use of a dry erase marker), so I've sworn off their use.





Our group has found that the Mr Clean Magic Eraser does work like magic at removing even dry erase marks from a chessex matt.


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## khantroll (Jul 28, 2011)

Our group uses high res scans of maps printed on a large format printer along with old fashioned miniatures. If the image in question is an old school dungeon type, then we vector trace it so that it scales appropriately. If not, then we blow it up as big as we can without significant degradation, and then print it out like that. 

We've used tiles, and still do in a pinch, but they tend to be pain to sort through (as has been mentioned before).


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## darjr (Jul 29, 2011)

Waylander the Slayer said:


> I've found tiles like the ones put forth by Paizo and WOTC  to be impractical to use unless you set up a scenario beforehand.
> 
> An old friend stole my Tact-tiles.
> 
> ...




Are these the same guys that make the 'clings'. static terrain? Thanks for the link, I didn't know they sold through Paizo.

Edit: Yes they are... http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/d/darkPlatypusStudios/v5748btpy8h5h


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## Waylander the Slayer (Jul 29, 2011)

darjr said:


> Are these the same guys that make the 'clings'. static terrain? Thanks for the link, I didn't know they sold through Paizo.
> 
> Edit: Yes they are... http://paizo.com/store/byCompany/d/darkPlatypusStudios/v5748btpy8h5h




Yep. Tje clings are great, not too fond of their walls but everything else is excellent.


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## The Human Target (Jul 29, 2011)

I use...

1 inch grid easel paper (which is pretty huge) with permanent markers of various colors. Maps prepared beforehand.

Crap loads of WotC Dungeon Tiles, stuck to large sheets of black poster board with sticky tack. Maps prepared beforehand.

A large thing double sided Chessex dry erase battlemap usually for maps needed on the fly.

All work well, depending on the situation.

I currently have a large dungeon set up with Dungeon Tiles on two sets of poster board (like 8 or 9 rooms) plus three rooms done on one large sheet of grid paper.


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## Stormonu (Jul 29, 2011)

Alan Shutko said:


> Our group has found that the Mr Clean Magic Eraser does work like magic at removing even dry erase marks from a chessex matt.




Sadly, it also removes the grid lines.

And while it did remove the stains on the 1st mat I had, for some reason, it didn't work on the other two.  It's almost like they changed the formula recently and it's not as effective as it used to be.


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## Tanstaafl_au (Jul 29, 2011)

I have a lot of maps (every DDM one, many from modules and online via cafepress), and use them for suitable encounters. Many are laminated so I *could* write over them, but I don't.

I own a mass of the D&D tiles, really only use the outdoor ones in great detail - make for good random terrian/features during journeys etc. 
Sometimes I will use my work's copy photocopier to print out A3 maps I like. I'll lamiate them if i think I will resue.

Most of the time I use my magnetic wet erase map ( Shop — Catalog Products — Magna-Map Combat Grid | Dark Platypus Studio ) which goes with my alea tools. (Alea Tools - Stackable Magnetic Markers!) & minis.

I like my gaming toys


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## MarauderX (Jul 29, 2011)

JediSoth said:


> I usually use Tact-Tiles, but I also have a bunch of Paizo Flipmats and some other poster-size maps. I prefer dry erase, and won't use wet erase. I'm looking forward to seeing how Crayola Dry Erase Crayons work versus standard dry erase markers. My preliminary tests show that accidental erasing is MUCH more difficult, though it's still pretty easy to erase on purpose and way less messy that any kind of marker.




Tact-tiles are the best game product I own.  I use poster putty to place wizards tiles when I use them, use Haba blocks (1" scale) to create elevations, and use markers for secret rooms, initiative, notes, etc.


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## SnowleopardVK (Jul 30, 2011)

Just cleaned my wet-erase map today. The process takes foreeeeeeeeever...

Ink gets dried onto this thing if it stays on for even an hour or two. It's usually dried in by the time we're done with one decent-sized encounter.


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## thedungeondelver (Jul 30, 2011)

SnowleopardVK said:


> Just cleaned my wet-erase map today. The process takes foreeeeeeeeever...
> 
> Ink gets dried onto this thing if it stays on for even an hour or two. It's usually dried in by the time we're done with one decent-sized encounter.





Go back over the lines you drew that dried with another wet-erase marker.  Then wipe them both off.  It'll do the trick, and you'll find it'll erase easier.


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## nightwind1 (Aug 2, 2011)

I'll use any of the above, depending on whether I have a map or tiles that fit the scene, or if I need to draw it out.


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## Pentius (Aug 2, 2011)

Update:  I now use a chessex mat.  Huzzah for gaming themed birthday gifts!


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## Skyscraper (Aug 2, 2011)

Color poster maps (I have about 20, each two-sided) and wet-erase mat for me.


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## Reynard (Aug 3, 2011)

So, if you do use tiles or pre-printed mats, do you build adventures around the maps you have or can make, or do you try and fit tiles or mats to the maps in an existing product or after you've written your adventure?


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## S'mon (Aug 3, 2011)

Reynard said:


> So, if you do use tiles or pre-printed mats, do you build adventures around the maps you have or can make, or do you try and fit tiles or mats to the maps in an existing product or after you've written your adventure?




1. For published adventures where a map is given, I'll almost always draw it out on the dry-erase flipmat.  Doesn't look great but usually works ok.  If the adventure includes a poster map, I'll use it of course.

2. For published adventures with no map, or a very simple map, I may use a similar predrawn flipmat instead.

3. When using 'Dungeon Delve' I actually did what they wanted & bought Dungeon Tiles & precreated the maps.  This is doable with DD because it's just 3 predictable rooms per adventure/session.

4.  I once created my own 3-room 'Dungeon Delve' using tiles, on the same model.  My 3-year-old helped me come up with a fiendish final encounter, which killed 2 PCs.  

5. When creating my own stuff in sandboxy style, I'll typically create the encounter first, with no map, *then* look for a suitable flipmat or poster map to set it in.  Otherwise it's the blank dry erase flipmat again.

6. I could use dungeon tiles for stuff I create myself, but I have bad experience of putting tons of effort into creating a major encounter aimed at PC X's backstory, pre-setting up the tiles on a board, assembling 3D stairway & platforms etc, then player of PC X drops the campaign and the work is wasted.  So now I'm very reluctant to touch the tiles, at least while I have lots of poster maps I've never used.


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## Jhaelen (Aug 3, 2011)

Reynard said:


> So, if you do use tiles or pre-printed mats, do you build adventures around the maps you have or can make, or do you try and fit tiles or mats to the maps in an existing product or after you've written your adventure?



Designing the adventure / encounters comes first, looking for fitting poster maps second. However, sometimes a poster map inspires me to create a particular encounter.


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## TheUltramark (Aug 3, 2011)

The Human Target mentioned the easel-board pads of 1" grid paper, and it is huge (27" by 34")
I use these, some pre drawn for "set-peice" style encounters.

However, lucky me, my wife the school administrator has access to a laminator and plastic laminated 27X34 sheet of grid paper is just as good as any battle mat you could ever hope to buy.  I use dry erase on it, and after the encounter a slightly damp mr clean magic eraser works brilliantly - I would also recommend that trick for all other mat users (though I have no experience with other mats, its worth a try).  I have three laminated sheets which have been used like rented mules, and they all look like new.


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## The Human Target (Aug 3, 2011)

TheUltramark said:


> The Human Target mentioned the easel-board pads of 1" grid paper, and it is huge (27" by 34")
> I use these, some pre drawn for "set-peice" style encounters.
> 
> However, lucky me, my wife the school administrator has access to a laminator and plastic laminated 27X34 sheet of grid paper is just as good as any battle mat you could ever hope to buy.  I use dry erase on it, and after the encounter a slightly damp mr clean magic eraser works brilliantly - I would also recommend that trick for all other mat users (though I have no experience with other mats, its worth a try).  I have three laminated sheets which have been used like rented mules, and they all look like new.




Some men want to marry super models.

I want to marry a woman with access to high end office supplies.


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## Havrik Stoneskimmer (Aug 4, 2011)

I bought the three Dungeon Tiles master sets and I have used them a bit (especially for generic wilderness encounters where I can just slap down 4 or 5 large forest tiles), but I generally find that it takes too much preparation time for not enough benefit. So I have mostly returned to my trusty Chessex wet-erase mat. I think we all have enough imagination that my rough line sketch in black marker doesn't detract from immersion. In fact, in some ways, I think it might help to have such a crude map - the imagination fills in the details better that way.


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## jcayer (Aug 5, 2011)

We just had this discussion 2 nights ago.  I use a projector and maptools, so some of my maps get pretty detailed.  One of the guys said sometimes he missed the old dry erase markers as it left more of the visualization up to him.  Yet, our Wizard was more than happy to hide behind a huge barrel I dropped on the map and then thunderwave it down a hill at a bunch of minions.  I gave him the rule of cool on that.  It was a great idea and the visual in everyone's head really hit the mark.

I know I'll continue to use maptools, but will only "dress up" the map when needed or for a really big battle.


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## MarauderX (Aug 5, 2011)

I thought I'd share what I have been typically doing with my Tact-tiles, Dungeon tiles, Haba blocks, dry-erase markers and some printed props.  It really helps with getting the 3D depictions, which seem to happen more in the higher levels.  

http://correl.wikispaces.com/CII+Session+56


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