# Instant feedback- the Ceramic DM judge free feedback zone of death!



## alsih2o

Well, not really death. 

 But still, this is where you can chat openly using biasing comments and all else.

 The rules of civility amongst Ceramic DM and evenmoreso on ENWorlds still aplly.


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## Macbeth

My thoughts on BSF's 3rd round story:

Awesome Opening! It really drew me in. I was intrigued by the world, and Rainmaker really did come across as being quite evil. Good stuff.

But then it faltered a little. The middle had some pacing issues, I think. Still very  good, but it just seemed to slow down, then jump forward, then slow down again, and then jump forward. 

I also know that you were thinking about stating out your protagonist. I think that shows through in your writing. It is both a strength and a weakness. It does codify the hero's abilities, making it clearer what he can do, as opposed to my story, which had fairly vague "rules." On the other hand, I just don't like the feel of writing to the rules, so to speak. It's really just my preference: when it becomes clear that your hero has a set of rules binding him, it becomes to easy to guess what he can and cannot due, in my opinion.

I think the time limit worked against you alot. Then end of the story was good, but it could have been great, It did seem like you just barely got it in on time. Suddenly the story just rushed by, what could have been a dramatic confrontation seemed too rushed.

But now I'm sounding too neagtive. I really liked your story, the protagonist was memorable, Rainmaker was a great villian, and the world it set up would make an awesome d20 Setting. My biggest advice , if I could give any (who am I to give advice) would be to not limit your writing by game rules. Obviously having stats helped some aspects of the story, but at the same time, the infiltration of the tower in particular just got a little too close to just relating d20 combat, which is fun to run, but not so fun to read.

Argh, I still sound too negative! I can't figure out how to make this sound any nicer, I really am just trying to tell you my thoughts on the story. It was a great story, and I don't mean to rip it apart, I just want to tell you what I think of it, and I like it alot. Please don't read my comments as critizing, I really did like the story alot, I just want to give you some feedback.


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## alsih2o

bump


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## Zhaneel

I really do hope that this gets used.  I prefered the winter competition where spoilers were used, 'cause I often have a gut response, but if I can't post it right away, I forget after the judging.

Zhaneel


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## BSF

Thanks Clay!    While I appreciate Macbeth's comments, I have been waiting to see if anybody had anything else to say before I reply.  

The mechanical elements of writing aside (those are good though), I am interested in hearing how the story made people feel.  Did it make anyone stop and think?  There are elements to the story that I don't think are very transparent, but they exist.  I am not sure how well I conveyed that.


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## Sialia

Yes, it is much easier to hold forth on these thing immediately after reading--the gut response of "ooh" or "wow" still fresh in my mind and the reasons why. Being able to post directly in thread lets me give a Maldur-type response. Waiting a while to think things over gives me time to be more Arwink-like. By the time I get there, I'm usually too restrained to really hold forth with the deep analysis for fear of hurting someone's feelings.

Except in this case.

Macbeth wrote a fine piece, and I really enjoyed reading it and thought, well BSF sure has his work cut out for him.

And then BSF posted, and any attempt at being disinterested flew out the window. It's a really good thing I'm not judging this round, because this is one of the few stories that have been posted where I absolutely could not make a judgment that wasn't 100% biased. I knew that was a risk when I started doing the illustrations, which is why I refused to judge--when my own work is involved, I'm not fair, and I'm not reasonable.

Only, this wasn't about the illustrations. 

Consciously or not, BSF put together a story that showed me exactly the type of world I had envisioned for my winter Ceramic GM series, before the Fall of Men occurred, which predates my timeline by several thousand years. 

I knew it like it was a place I had been before, even though I never went there when I was writing the winter stuff. I knew what the rules of that world were the way an archaeologist knows what Ancient Egypt was like. But I had never really been there. BSF breathed life into it so I could walk around in it and see how it felt to be there. It felt exactly right.

The rules of gametime were actually part of that experience. In the way that our world's technology controls that there are certain things a cell phone can and cannot do, the rules of game mechanics control that world. There is magic, but it's not completely free of constraints. They are familiar constraints to those of us that D20, and we can take them as given. 

It may be that the only audience for this set of stories is ENWorld (and related forums). So be it. We're not writing for Asimov's here--we're writing for us. The piece had an acute awareness of its intended audience, which made it very personal. That may limit its universal human truth appeal, but I think it brings us much closer to an intimate and personal human truth. To me, that's more appealing.

I also liked the local flavor and culture. Rooting a fantasy story in a particular locale with it's particular weather and cuisine and clothing and philosophy is a great way to avoid the McDonald'sification (run _that_ through your spellcheck!) of fantasy cultures--you know--the white bread, ren-faire mock medieval european thing we all like as our standard comfort fantasy fare. There's unbelievable richness to human cultures, and even New Jersey is different from Ohio. A world that gives me even a glimpse of the kind of local context that makes a place _live_ feels good to me. So I'm biased because BSF wrote in a world that I wanted to create in--a world that I would like to game in or write about. (Although not _live_ in <shudder>)

Which is not to say that Macbeth did or didn't go there--only that after reading BSF's story, I got lost in my own thoughts about things for a while. 

And then I started writing again.

So, I'm biased, because something in BSF's story made me want to get back to my world and start working there again.

And this little bird is always surprised and delighted and biased and unreasonable when she finds that she has more songs in her than she expected.

(As a final note, though--to both Macbeth and BSF--if whichever of you wins does not take care to have somebody else proofread and spellcheck your round 4 entry before you post it, you are going to get clobbered. Leave yourself time to do the proofing!! In the absence of glaring typos, I see no reason why either of you should not do well in the final. Good luck!!)


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## BSF

Sialia,
Thank you for sharing that.  Though, it was not a conscious effort to tap into your delicious stories.  

Macbeth,
Don't worry about sounding too negative.  I know you, I have met you and we game together.  I have a context to place body language in with what your words are saying.  Besides, I happen to agree with some of your assessments.  Mechanically, this story could be much, much stronger.  And I fully expect the judges to note the mechanical weaknesses.  They have to.  

As Sialia rightfully points out, you and I both have spelling errors.  I have editing errors that are almost inexcusable.  Sadly, some of them were not errors that I noted until several readings into the story.  Too close to the story to see them really.  

And that is part of the strength and part of the weakness of this story.  It is close to me.  I hope I have written a story that is fun to read.  It is a niche piece.  For now, it needs to stay there.  I need to figure out how to rewrite it to pull it out of that niche.  If I do that, I am not sure I want it to remain a short story.  Perhaps a novella, or even a novel would work better?  I'm just not sure. But, I digress.

I chose to stat out the characters in my mind so I would understand the parameters of the world I was creating.  I agree that doing so can create a rigid boundary that might confine the story.  Nevertheless, it was something I wanted to do.  
- Heck, first of all, I am a DM.  Going through that little mental excercise creates NPC material for me.  I can present two possible builds for Jake, depending on how scary I want him to be.  But, that is a minor consideration.  
- Secondly, this is Ceramic DM.  The roots of alsih2o's little contest are in adventure story writing around the D20 system.  I wanted to pay homage to the roots.  (I always enjoyed Gary Gygax's Gord the Rogue books and those are very D&D-centric.)  

- Thirdly, I wanted a rigid parameter around these characters.  They do have limitations, very codified limitations. Something like Rainmaker Inc has found a way to break those limitations.  They exert their weather control over most of the United States.  By borrowing the limitations, I take a shortcut to developing the history.  I can easily envision how Rainmaker grew and what it's influence is across the nation, and indeed the world.  I know this because I borrowed the 2 mile radius limitation of _Control Weather_ (when a wizard or sorceror casts it) and reversed it.  I took those rules, warped them and then used that as an overlay for what the antagonist of the story would do.  (Indeed, what almost any corporation would do if they had the chance to corner the market.)  But really, this all builds up to one of the biggest reasons.

- Fourthly, borrowing the game mechanics that most of the readers are going to be passingly familiar with allows me to take certain ... shortcuts.  I can refer to something in a game-centric parlance that allows me to save time and words.  While I have never come close to running against the word limit, it does take time to type it all out.  (Such as the time I am not working while writing this.  )  72 hours is awfully short if you work and sleep during that time.  I also had gaming.  I was desperately running out of time and I hadn't figured out the perspective of how I was going to tell the story.  Without some of those shortcuts, I would have needed a couple more hours of writing time.  

I know what the intended audience for this story is, so I chose to embrace the limitations of game mechanics for the benefits it would bring me, and because on some level it will appeal to the audience.  I would be delighted to hear that somebody wanted to make a PC like Dancing Bull, or Little Bird.  I would grin if somebody asked me for more history about Rainmaker.  You get these things out of writing around the game mechanics.  

But really, these were very minor considerations for the story.  

Characterization was fun.  Sialia, I am so very, very pleased that you enjoyed that.  It was a very conscious decision to tap into a few regional things.  An anglo looking guy who is named Julio, but goes by Jake and speaks with a mixture of English and Spanish.  A Native American Hispanic that speaks english.  These are people I could meet anywhere along the Rio Grande, from Taos, down to El Paso.  I could meet them in places along the Gulf of Mexico.  I wanted them to feel authentic.  OK, I have never met a talking buffalo, but this is a world of magic, and spirits and it really isn't that hard for me to imagine meeting a talking buffalo.  I hope the characterization is where you get glimpses of what is going on beneath the obvious story.  Because, really, Jake and Cheryl are just window dressing for what the story was *really* about.  

But, maybe that is best left for another post?


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## Macbeth

hmmm, I did spellcheck. Thought I got most of the errors. Damn. Never was very good at spelling/grammer, I always focused on the writing itself. Damn.


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## Sialia

I know, but it would be a _good_ series of short stories if we collaborated on them and combined them--and they wouldn't conflict because the timelines are thousands of years apart.

You could be pretty much free to do whatever you wanted within your timeline, as long as you were more or less within the standard conventions of d20.

Say a few hundred years after your story completes, the world as you built it collapses, and lays fallow for a few thousand, and then we stick in mine.

Bits of evidence from things that happened in your world might show up in mine, or perhaps not.

It could be done, and it would be good.

Of course, the piece that I'm working on now violates that, because I wanted to write in yours right off, and started working in your timeline.

Um.

Although in a completely different geographic location. And it could be off by a couple dozen years--but probably not more than about 50 or 60 years.

The point is, there's enough going on politically and philosphically here that there's room for a lot in this world, and it's worth going on with.  Having multiple authors with different styles poking at it wouldn't hurt it, because a high piece of the charm is the intense quality of local and personal material and issues, and the variety of them.


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## BSF

It sounds like fun!  You are right, it really isn't a stretch to imagine the stories being related, even if they are seperated by a good span of time.  

Now, you have me thinking again.  Hmm, very interesting concepts going on.  Because really, Rainmaker is a single event that is transpiring in this world.  Admittedly, it has significance, but what other significant events are going on?  Dancing Bull and Little Bird are, as I said, window dressing for the real conflict.  They are contributing their small part, and Jake doesn't even understand the significance of what he is doing.  Sure, he is kind of avenging his spiritual death at the hands of Rainmaker.  He is certainly avenging Little Bird's death.  At the end, he thinks he understands what has happened when he has the tiny revelation that Cheryl knew she would stride the Great Red Road ahead of her brother, and indeed, ahead of Jake.  But, he doesn't *really* understand what happened.  Which is why I couldn't write the story from his 1st person perspective.  If I had done that, the reader would have felt his pain and spiritual vacuity, but the reader would not have had that external perspective to see more of the picture that I was trying to paint.  The reader would not have the opportunity to really wonder who Papa and Auntie are.  *shrug*  Maybe the reader doesn't now.  Maybe Papa and Auntie are just an old grandfather and a talking buffalo because I didn't provide any opportunity to question whether they are anything more, but I hope not.  

Anyway, if you are inspired to write something, than I am happy.  I'd love to see it, perhaps in Kil-Fired Ceramic DM when you are done?


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## BSF

Enough about my story right now.  What I want to hear is about Macbeth's risk in round two against Clay.  For me, I have tried something a little beyond my comfort zone for all three rounds so far.  So, I find it interesting that other people are feeling the need to stretch as well.  

C'mon Macbeth, what was the risk and what was the inspiration to try it?  I want to know.


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## Sialia

BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> Anyway, if you are inspired to write something, than I am happy. I'd love to see it, perhaps in Kil-Fired Ceramic DM when you are done?



Go over there a post a good photo for me.
 Folks have given me a few already, most of which have slipped in quite easily.

Not that I've had time to write. Probably another 2 weeks before I get any writing time. But I know what I _would_ do with them.

Hope I don't lose the story before then--that sort of thing has happened before.

Feel free to tell us more about Papa and Auntie. I'm listening.

 It's because your world _is_ bigger than your characters that I think it fits well with mine. My characters were there moving in the space and time, but it was the world that held me hostage, now that I think about it. 

Probably why I felt right at home in yours.


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## Eeralai

BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> Enough about my story right now.  What I want to hear is about Macbeth's risk in round two against Clay.




I'd like to post my thoughts on MacBeth's second story.  Actually, I would like to compare his second and third story because any comparison to BSF's third story would probably be biased 

I like the premise for MacBeth's third story a great deal, but I think his second story is better written.  For me, it is probably because the second story is all about the development of a character.  It is unrelated to the d20 world, and instead it concentrates on growing from a child to an adult in a very metaphorical way.  I really had a since of the character's anguish and thought it all too real that people were trying to squash his imagination.  It was well done and something I hope he expands upon.

The third story, as I said, had a great premise, but I was not as intrigued with the main character.   I knew right away who the djinn was, and I felt like the main character should have had more of an inkling than he did.  It would be neat to see this story with more character depth and posted in the Kiln Fired thread.  I was impressed with the picture use in both stories and the fact that they were written in three days blows me away.  And I must interject that the speed at which BSF wrote his last two stories was astounding to me.  The second one particularly because he did not have as clear of an idea for it when he sat down to begin it as he did the other two.

As far as grammar and spelling, the best thing to do is have somebody else look at it.  But in the time frame you guys have to work with, that is sometimes impossible to do.


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## Sialia

Yes--Macbeth's second rounder blew me away. I looooved that story.  The third rounder was good, too, but did not surprise me as much, or take me somewhere I have never travelled gladly beyond as well.The second rounder was the sort of story that would do well in a final round, if there's another like that in there. Only not like that, becasue part of what was great about it was that I had never encountered another one like that before.


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## Macbeth

Thanks for the feedback!

Well, as for what risk I felt I was taking: I was moving beyond a simple story, ment primarily to entertain, into a story that was ment to communticate a moral, or a theme, or something. I was trying to stay away from the humor of my previous entry(s) and create a surreal feel to the story. I wasn't sure that I could do it, but it worked out, and I think it is probably the best stuff I've ever written for a Ceramic DM competition. Bacially my risk was writing in a style besides what I normally write, going for a feel that I rarely read. I find it easier to imitate a style that I read often, so doing soething more surreal was hard.

And my third round story. All of your criticisms are dead on. I've never been good about writing mystery, especially when I already know the answer. If I make it up as I go along, I'm more likely to keep the secrete, but then it's impossible to see it coming. If I plan it out ahead of time I make it too obvious what the suprise is. If I had another way of linking the pictures together, or another way to tell the story without the weak mystery element, I would have done it. In retrospect, I caught on to the suprise ending as my hook too early in the writing process, I think I could have told the same story without the suprise, and it could have been better.

I was hoping that by hinting at the mysterious ever-present glasses I could make the reader think they knew who the djinn was, then redirect them when the glasses truned out to be just, well... glasses. I knew it might be too easy to tell who the djinn, but I was hoping I could play on the reader's expectations.

And just a little insight into my thought process with this story: the "thread" I found in the pictures was the distortion. I liked the idea that the swimming man was warping reality, not just swimming. In my first mental draft, there were no djinn, there was a government experiment that gave a subject the power to warp reality to his subconscious desires. It would be told from a first person point of view, from the perspective of an agent sent out to track down this subject, who escaped. But, after he cpatured the subject, it would turn out he was the subject, that he had used his powers to create somebody to catch. I liked the idea, but I had no idea why it would happen, and I didn't like the feel of it. I tossed the idea around for a bit, then I happened to think about djinn (I have been reading Neil Gamien's American Gods recently, and even though the djinn interlude was a while back, it was still fresh in my mind), and the story as it turned out developed.

I wish that I had been able to find a metaphoric topic as I did in the second round, but no such luck. I liked my second round story better, and I think this round will be close.


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## Macbeth

Sialia said:
			
		

> Yes--Macbeth's second rounder blew me away. I looooved that story.  The third rounder was good, too, but did not surprise me as much, or take me somewhere I have never travelled gladly beyond as well.The second rounder was the sort of story that would do well in a final round, if there's another like that in there. Only not like that, becasue part of what was great about it was that I had never encountered another one like that before.



If I do get a shot at the final round, I'm going to try to pusch myself again, to not accept any idea that I feel I've already written.

And if I don't get a chance at the finals, I'll just push myself in the next Ceramic DM.


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## Zhaneel

Having now read both stories (was avoiding due to work and so I could work on my own beast) I have to say I prefer BSF's.

Again, I have the same complaint about the Djinn.  I'm trying to figure out how you could have made it harder to figure out.  Perhaps have the threesome say that someone would join him for the hunt so that the reader did not IMMEDIATELY think Djinn?  Also, I wonder how the side guys could look intimidating with their backs to the main character.

As for BSF, I think it was a wonderfully rich world and interesting idea.  I don't see the connection Sialia's stories, but then I'm not in Sialia's head.  I was a little confused at the end. There were 3 wizards, and Dancing Bull took out one and then I thought dealt with the second to see Little Bird's bro as the third.  Takes him out, and then we're left with another wizard who just lets him read the scroll?  Umm... confused.

Zhaneel


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## Zhaneel

PS: I would love some more feedback on my two previous stories.

Zhaneel


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## Macbeth

Zhaneel said:
			
		

> Having now read both stories (was avoiding due to work and so I could work on my own beast) I have to say I prefer BSF's.



I think I may prefer BSF's also... if I had to predict the outcome of the match, I would bet on BSF.

Oh, and you can look fairly intimidating with your back turned. Big enough muscles and the possibility of those muscles being used to beat you to a pulp is always intimidating, regardless of facing. Kind of like d20 combat, when you think about it ....


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## orchid blossom

I'll echo Zhaneel.  I'd love to hear what anyone has to say about my entry.  It's been awhile, I know, but I'd love to hear it.

Hopefully soon I'll have time to offer some insights on the recent stories.


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## BSF

Ah, the wizards.   

OK, I'll see if I can straighten that out and keep in mind that it was poorly written.  It will probably sound a bit heavy on the cheese when I am done.  

A little notation.  Initially, Jake was going to be a Martial Artist (From Beyond Monks:  The Art of the fight) and a Sorceror multi-class.  Pretty much along the lines of Mar6/Sor11-12.  In the end though, I decided to stat him as a Gestalt Mar/Sor 12.  He has all the spells of a 12th level Sorceror, and all the fighting capability of a full BAB.  Coupled with a few feats, he can deliver touch spells as part of an unarmed attack.  He is a high level character.

Dancing Bull came up the elevator and was able to hear the conversation.  Becoming a bit irate, he surges as he does a surprise charge across the room.  For dramatic affect, he takes down the 1st wizard.

Suprise is over and I assume that one of the wizards gets lucky, wins initiative, and pulls off a _Fire Shield (Warm)_ on the defensive.  The wizard, not being too stupid, also moves out of the way.  He knows he is up against somebody that favors melee and wants to get defensive first.  Dancing Bull goes next and confronts Little Bird's brother.  Using one of those nasty daggers that requires a Fort save to avoid dying, he sends Little Bird's brother on his way.  Then, he draws out the scroll.  

Now, if he were _Hasted_ he could pull off reading the scroll.  Throughout the story, I avoid mentioning the (sometimes tedious) buffing process.  Dancing Bull knows he is facing a high level wizard.  I don't tell you who it is, but in my mind, the wizard was capable of 9th level magic.  Dancing Bull isn't worried about coming out alive, he is worried about taking down Rainmaker.  A _Meteor Swarm_ should be a good start.  It probably won't take out the wizard, but all that damage focused on a relatively fragile magic item is going to release quite a backlash.  The apparatus at the top of Rainmaker is, essentially, a fragile magic item.  It pulls power out of the lake by tapping into the earth and water magic.  It stores that power at the top of the tower, being used by Rainmaker's Wizards to control the weather.  Dancing Bull doesn't care about getting out alive, a situation that Rainmaker never considered addressing.


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## Zhaneel

Wow... okay you have stats.  I don't do stats.  I do stories.

One of the reasons why I've considered not writing for the next competition.  I want to write stories, and they tend to be SF/F but rarely do I have them set in a RPG world and/or have stats associated with my characters.

Thanks for clearing up the wizard dying confusion.

Zhaneel


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## Macbeth

Okay, I've had some time (and a nice relaxing shower) to contemplate why my second round story was what it was, and I have some more thoughts worth sharing:

First, I was asked if this story was auobiographical by Erelai over in BSF's private forum. At the time I said no, it wasn't. But I think it is, on deeper consideration. I'm just not writing about when I was Adam's age. I'm writing about sometime around middle school in my life, it just gets written as a very young Adam.

Before I go further, let me give a note on names:

Adam: I needed a name, and since Adam is becoming a man, and we don't see any othr men in the story, he is the "first man." Plus, the name seemed to fit the story.

Maman: I wanted another term for mother. Mom was to common, Mama was too childish, and Ma was too rural. So I fell back on Maman, a term that I picked up reading Camus' The Stranger.

Grace: I didn't want to mention it before, because I thought it would make the story sound to sentimental or trite, but this story is dedicated to my mother. And my mom's name is Grace. She was always really good about supporting my creativity as a child, and the name fit the picture and the character, so I went ahead and used her name. But my mother looks NOTHING like the picture of Grace in the story (Thank God).

Okay, so this story is, when you get down to it, about my Middle School years, I think. I didn't intend it to be so autobiographical, but I wrote it that way anyway. Through Elementary school, I had teachers and fellow students who really encouraged being creative and unique. Then, in Middle School, suddenly Teachers weren't quite as interested in creativity, and students downright hated it. Nothing crushes a birght kid's spirits quite like Middle School. And that was what I was writing about. Having to take the creativity and preserve it, but being mocked for being different, for making things up for myself. And I believe that these feelings are fairly common for smart, creative kids in Middle School.

The other main point of the story is the twisted mirrior image of Adam inside his own head. I think here I was just writing about that urge not to grow up.  Through the better part of Middle School I still wanted to go back to Elementary School. And despite my hatred of Middle School, when the time came to move on to High School (and not a minute too soon), there was still some part of my that didn't want to grow up, to move on. Of course I fit in alot better in High School, and I was allowed to be creative and unique in school again, so the change was really for the better. But it was hard to see that at the time. Same thing for the move from High School (and my Parent's hous) to College. The day of the move I didn't want to go, I didn't want to grow up. Those feelings didn't last long (think in the <24 hours range), but it was that same little part of me that didn't want to grow up.

So enough of my contemplation. I just thought I'd share my thoughts, since I finally figured out that I was writing about myself. Hope I get the chance to produce another experimental story in the Finals.


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## Macbeth

Oh, and one other thing: The bit about the Imaginary bear versus the bear as Adam drew it was right out of my childhood. I was always upset that I couldn't draw what I had imagined. Probably why I developed a fairly large vocabulary: I couldn't draw what I imagined, so I had to be able to put it into words. I'm not sure that I ever had a drawing of a bear, I just kind of picked a bear as a big animal that could fight for Adam later.


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## Eeralai

I think most people would agree that middle school sucked.  And from a teacher's perspective, students are bizarre at that age.  I would always rather teach elementary or HS.  Thanks for the insight on the story!

So if you go onto the finals our game can start on time on Fridays once again


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## BSF

Zhaneel said:
			
		

> Wow... okay you have stats.  I don't do stats.  I do stories.
> 
> One of the reasons why I've considered not writing for the next competition.  I want to write stories, and they tend to be SF/F but rarely do I have them set in a RPG world and/or have stats associated with my characters.
> 
> Thanks for clearing up the wizard dying confusion.
> 
> Zhaneel




I don't always do stats.    Actually, I don't often do stats.  But, when I do, it is relatively painless.  I've been gaming for roughly 24 years now and I can totally geek out when I want to.  But please, do not let that sway you from participating in the next tourney.  Framing the story in gaming terms is not necessary.  I certainly didn't in my first round entry.  And, past tourneys have had a variety of different "settings".  So, it isn't like you need to set it in an RPG world, or stat out anything.


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## BSF

Macbeth said:
			
		

> Thanks for the feedback!
> 
> Well, as for what risk I felt I was taking: I was moving beyond a simple story, ment primarily to entertain, into a story that was ment to communticate a moral, or a theme, or something. I was trying to stay away from the humor of my previous entry(s) and create a surreal feel to the story. I wasn't sure that I could do it, but it worked out, and I think it is probably the best stuff I've ever written for a Ceramic DM competition. Bacially my risk was writing in a style besides what I normally write, going for a feel that I rarely read. I find it easier to imitate a style that I read often, so doing soething more surreal was hard.




Interesting!  Sometimes, trying to bring in a moral or a theme doesn't work so well.  Personally, I think a lot of it depends on how much you believe the message.  After that, you have to follow-through with solid writing.  You dug down deep and you pulled out something that you polished up nicely.  I may be reading too much into it, but I was excited when you alluded to taking a risk in the thread.  I felt that you would take that chance because you knew you were pairing off against Clay.  Clay puts out some pretty good stuff.  When you have a good opponent, you feel the need to dig deeper, which is why the competition aspect of Ceramic DM is nifty.  

Last competition, I was paired off against Sialia right away.  The thing is, I love reading Sialia's stories.  She captures character voice very well.  I felt the only way I could possibly beat her was to try something completely unlike anything I had tried before.  *sigh*  I was not very successful in that endeavor, but I learned a little.  My story wasn't too bad, but I didn't tell it very well.  I got too flustered.

This competition, I wanted to make it to the second round.  My initial ideas on that first story didn't work out and I finally stumbled across a story that did work out.  It wasn't a bad idea at all, but it was unlike anything I've ever tried before.  So, I took a bit of a risk and when I got done, I realized that the underlying theme was something I kind of cared about.  My own writing made me think.  Whoa!  For my third round story, I thought I would embrace some of that theme, expound on it.  It took me too long to frame it together and decide on details and then write it all out.  But, I learned a bit more about myself doing it.  I learned a little bit more about writing in general as well.  And, I knew I would have to try something a little different if I wanted to have any chance at beating you!

So, I think taking risks has a lot of payoff.  No matter what, you will learn.  Even if the lesson is that you tried a style that doesn't suit you.  I think you can learn about yourself.  I also think that you take risks when you want to give your opponent a good run.  For each of my stories in this competition I have taken a risk.


----------



## BSF

Sialia said:
			
		

> Feel free to tell us more about Papa and Auntie. I'm listening.




I have been thinking about this for a few hours.  Should I answer this?  I only pause because it is where the preachy part of the story starts to develop.  So, I will answer, because you have asked.  However, there might be some people that don't want to know.  They may have their own ideas.  So, I think I will put it in spoiler tags.  For those unfamilair with spoiler tags ... they prevent you from inadvertently seeing part of the story being explained.  That might "spoil" the experience for you. The rest of the post will show up as black on black, if you are using the default theme.  If you want to read the spoiler text, just highlight it.  Otherwise, move along to the next post.  



Spoiler



Papa and Auntie - What are they to me?  I tried to foreshadow and imply just a little bit.  But, I didn't want to clobber over the head with it.  I will take two lines from my story and cut out the obfuscating text in between.

_“Have faith Jake, the Sky Father and the Earth Mother will aid us.”  
...
But first, Little Bird wished to visit her Grandfather and Auntie.  _

I can't tell you if Papa/Grandfather was the Sky Father, or just a spirit aspect of the Sky Father.  Nor can I tell you if Auntie was the Earth mother incarnate.  But, if these two characters were not the Sky Father and the Earth Mother, they were closely associated with them.  Let me give you a little more backstory.

Little Bird knew where her brother went, and what he was doing.  She knew he had lost his respect for the earth, and the four-leggeds as well as the two leggeds.  She prayed for her brother, she prayed for the earth.  Her brother didn't respond, but the earth did.  The Sky Father sent a spirit to bouy her spirits, to laugh as the wind does and to breath life.  The Earth mother sent a spirit to lend her strength, strength to undertake the task that Little Bird knew she must do.  She had to prepare the way, without bitterness and anger and hate.  Her power was through love and respect.  She loved her brother, she loved the earth, she loved that Jake left Rainmaker because he couldn't be a part of it any longer.  She sacrificed herself so that the earth would be better, her brother would be free and so that Jake could stop hating himself for what he had been.  In the end, she died without fear because she knew that the Sky Father and the Earth Mother blessed her, and she knew that through her actions, things would be better.  

Jake didn't know any of that.  Jake was filled with self-loathing and pain and hate because of his suppoirt for a coporate machine that did not care for the lives it ruined.  He couldn't bear the thought that he was responsible for all those happy people whose lives were ruined.  He thought that by quitting, he could distance himself from that.  But, on a deep level, he knew that by not doing anything about it, he was implicitly supporting them.  So, he turned to alcohol and moved down to the coast.  If he was drunk enough, he could watch the storms move in off the gulf and temporarily forget that they would soon be captured and controlled by Rainmaker.  When he was sober, he couldn't pretend that Rainmaker didn't exist.

Auntie sent Little Bird to find Jake.  The Earth Mother needed somebody that could walk the road prepared by Little Bird.  Auntie would lend her strength to the person capable of following through.  Love is countered by hate.  Peace by violence.  The earth sometimes appears to be careless of the desires of the two leggeds.  And why shouldn't the Sky Father and Earth Mother be careless of our desires?  It's a big planet and there are a lot of things that need to be taken care of.  People live, and people die.  Jake was practically dead anyway.  Little Bird gave him hope.  Auntie gave him strength.  Papa gave him power over air so he could fly.  (Yes, I know I wrote that as Uncle.  Even I have no idea why that showed up in the story like that.  Remember those inexcusable editing errors I mentioned?  This is one of them.)

After Dancing Bull was created, Auntie gave of her hide (the cloak) and her flesh (the steak) so that Dancing Bull would be strong.  

_The buffalo represent the strength and bounty of the earth.  They churn the dirt so new plants can grow.  They give of their flesh to feed and clothe the People._

In a very symbolic sense, Auntie lent her aspects to Dancing Bull.  

So, while Jake comes across as the protagonist of the story, he is really just doing the bidding of the Sky Father and the Earth Mother, embodied as Papa and Auntie, with Little Bird's help.  

As an interesting aside, Sheryl did call him Grandfather.  For her, that was her ideal for gentle, kind wisdom.  He told Jake to call him Papa because that is what Jake called his grandfather.  If there were a third character, there might have been yet another name.  Hmm, perhaps that is where Uncle came from?  

Back to the story.  The underlying theme gets a bit preachy here.  What are we doing to our planet?  We have to live here, why are we trying to mess it up?  Am I always this bitter and disillusioned?  No, I'm not.  Rainmaker, to me, represents a really bad corporation gone badly awry.  This is fiction, so I can go to extremes. We have a corporation using advanced technology (even if it is called magic, it is technology in this fantasy world) to destroy the environment so they can make a few lousy bucks.  It doesn't matter how many lives, families and ecosystems are destroyed, they need to improve the bottom line and make more profit.  Papa and Auntie are the displeased Spirits that are here to help set things right.  And since man made this mess, then man will start trying to fix it.  Sheryl volunteered, Jake was recruited, Rainmaker was destroyed.  

Anyway, I hope that they didn't come across as goofy characters that were introduced solely to fulfill the picture requirements.  I mean, sure that is why they took those particular forms.  But, that pic is hardly a throwaway in the context of who Papa and Auntie are.  

Yeah, I am babbling.  It's late and I am tired.


Turning off spoiler text now. 
Will it be enough?  That's an interesting question.  As I said before, I think this is just a single event.  There are other things happening in the world.  Those could be interesting stories to tell.


----------



## BSF

Page 3?  Insufferable!

OK, now that I have been officially knocked out of the running, I can go back and read all the stories.  Yay!  I expect to start filling this thread with my initial reactions as I read the stories.  

Early on in the contest, I realized that there would be far more posts than there are stories.  I had been trying to go through one of the old Tourneys to find a story to point a friend at.  I realized that it is very hard to go through these things if you are just looking for the stories.  So, I built a little menu, of sorts.  I have been updating it and I email Piratecat so he can use it on the first page of the thread.  This will make it immensely easier for people down the road to read the stories.  I would like to go back through the other Ceramic DM tourneys and do the same thing for those when I have time.  So, Clay, I will probably email you something along these lines one day.  Mythago too, or I will have Piratecat forward it if your email is private.    But, I am including the menu here, now, because I can and I will be using it to go back and read everyone's story, and then comment.  

*Quicklinks to Photos, Stories and Judgements:*
Use these to avoiding wading through all the discussion between stories.

*First Round*
1 Pictures - Alish2o vs Cool Hand Luke - Judgement
2 Pictures - Macbeth vs Thullgrim - Judgement
3 Pictures - Berandor vs Drose25 - Judgement
4 Pictures - Mythago vs Orchid Blossom - Judgement 
5 Pictures - Tzor vs Zhaneel - Judgement
6 Pictures - RangerWickett vs Speaker - Judgement
7 Pictures - WanderingMonster vs BardStephenFox - Judgement 
8 Pictures - NiTessine vs Francisca - Judgement

*Second Round (Winners of First Round competitions)*
1 Pictures - Alish2o vs Macbeth - Judgement 
2 Pictures - Mythago vs Drose25 - Judgement 
3 Pictures - BardStephenFox vs NiTessine - Judgement
4 Pictures - Zhaneel vs RangerWickett - Judgement

*Third Round (Winners of Second Round competition)*
1 Pictures - Macbeth vs BardStephenFox - Judgement 
2 Pictures - Mythago vs Zhaneel - Judgement

*Final (Winners of Third Round competition)*
Pictures - Macbeth vs Mythago - Judgement

*Related Links:*
Ceramic DM Contests
Ceramic DM - December 2002
Ceramic DM - January 2003
Ceramic DM - March 2003
Ceramic DM - April 2003
Ceramic DM - June 2003
Ceramic DM - August 2003 (Spycraft & Modern themed)
Ceramic DM - October 2003
Ceramic DM - January 2004

Ceramic DM Inspired stories without the time limits.
Ceramic DM, the home version
Kiln-Fired Ceramic DM

And finally ... Instant Feedback a thread that has commentary on the stories, where the judges won't see it and possibly become "biased".

Now, how was that for a fancy bump?


----------



## Zhaneel

Damn, BSF.  That is FABOULOUS!

Zhaneel


----------



## BSF

Zhaneel said:
			
		

> Damn, BSF.  That is FABOULOUS!
> 
> Zhaneel





Thanks!  Though, are you referring to the nifty menu that makes it easier to find everything, or to my explanation on Papa and Auntie?


----------



## Zhaneel

Nifty menu.  Haven't had time to read the spoilers.

Zhaneel


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## mythago

Wow. Thanks, BSF!


----------



## alsih2o

BSF, you rocketh my world.

 Excellent. What a collossal waste of time for my benefit.


----------



## BSF

alsih2o said:
			
		

> BSF, you rocketh my world.
> 
> Excellent. What a collossal waste of time for my benefit.




Oh hey, if I missed any, please let me know.


----------



## arwink

Odd, I completely forgot that I originally volunteered to compete in the first ceramic DM  :\  Good to see my complete inability to schedule the chaos of general life was a problem way back then as well


----------



## BSF

*Round 1-5 - Zhaneel - The One*

Ouch!  Damn, that is harsh.  I was just starting to kinda care about Karen when she was whacked.  Again, Ouch!  

OK, what do I say about this?  (Besides Ouch.)

I can empathize a bit with Karen.  High School can be tough.  Heck, I was a 4-year letterman and I hardly fit in with most of the cliques.  That feeling of constantly being ignored and then embracing that as a method of dealing with it is an interesting take.  You conveyed that pretty well.  

Void's attention and how he was slowly drawing her out is really nice.  The first real attention she has had focused on her for who she is.  Not as an annoyance, but as somebody that Void seems to actually like and care for.  The interplay of her emotions seemed to work a bit too cleanly for me.  Emotions are messy at times and it felt like hers were riding in perfect tune to what the story needed.  Just enough self-doubt, slowly welling up and the peak of self-confidence.  It felt more like a gentle wave of emotion instead of a jarring roller coaster.  I'm not saying she needed to be a stereotypical mess, but in high school, emotions seemed to rapidly raise you up and then crash you back down.  That was what it felt like for me and seemed to be the way many people I knew also felt, when you could get them to admit to feeling anything.  Of course, maybe other people didn't have that experience and I am projecting too personally?  In any case, that build up of self-confidence was working nicely after the high priest blessed her.  I was actually thinking she might come out of it having done something positive and that the story would be about her burgeoning self confidence.  But no, let's kill her instead.  Ouch!  Nicely done.


----------



## mythago

Is there a way to bookmark that particular post?

 Edit: duh. Never mind. I'll leave this post for the bump value, though.


----------



## Zhaneel

Kay, I don't know how.  

Share?

Zhaneel


----------



## BSF

Upper right of each post has a Post # in thread.   (Like this one is probably 40 if nobody posted while writing this)  Click on that.  It will open up the post in a seperate window.  You can then bookmark that.


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## Sialia

BardStephenFox said:
			
		

> Upper right of each post has a Post # in thread. (Like this one is probably 40 if nobody posted while writing this) Click on that. It will open up the post in a seperate window. You can then bookmark that.



Brilliant!

I never noticed that the number was clickable. This is a handy thing to know just generally. Bookmark has been created, and now I'm off to gather more.

I will never have to hunt for a lost thread again! Whee!

Thanks soooo much for compiling the list BSF.


----------



## Piratecat

Macbeth, I've got to know. In "Distortions," where did you get the number "723 Main St." from?  My house address is 723, although not on Main Street, and it seems like a weird coincidence.


----------



## Macbeth

Piratecat said:
			
		

> Macbeth, I've got to know. In "Distortions," where did you get the number "723 Main St." from?  My house address is 723, although not on Main Street, and it seems like a weird coincidence.



Now that is an odd coincidence. The basis for the number came from the Dark*Matter Polyhedron Minigame, where they recommend throwing the number 23 in random places, to create a pattern the PCs may pick up on, but with no real meaning. I just needed an address to fill in the dialogue, and the number 23 came to mind since I had recently read the minigame. But I havent seen many 2 digit addresses, so I threw a 7 in front to make it an address. 

It's odd how things work out. The 23 part of the address was just supposed to be a nod to Dark*Matter, and the 7 was completely random, and they combined to form your address. Wierd


----------



## mythago

Comments on It's Elemental

 I really liked a lot of the little details--the friendship between the two mages, the bells Perri wears on her clothing.

 I would have liked to see a lot more from the fire mage. Why does he go berserk and want to cleanse the earth with fire? It would have been interesting (though not the only possibility) if he had some relationship to Carson, or Perri, or one of the other mages beforehand.


----------



## Zhaneel

Thanks Mythago.

It is amazing what 72 hours does to my brain.  Those would make the story much more interesting.  I'm committed to rewriting that story.

Anyone else with comments?  On any of the three stories I had up?  I'm looking at rewriting 2/3 or all for publication.  Looking for comments more on general story stuff rather than on picture usage as that will now go by the wayside.

Zhaneel


----------



## BSF

Zhaneel said:
			
		

> Thanks Mythago.
> 
> It is amazing what 72 hours does to my brain.  Those would make the story much more interesting.  I'm committed to rewriting that story.
> 
> Anyone else with comments?  On any of the three stories I had up?  I'm looking at rewriting 2/3 or all for publication.  Looking for comments more on general story stuff rather than on picture usage as that will now go by the wayside.
> 
> Zhaneel




I fully intend to have comments.  But, frankly, I ran out of energy.  I hope to resume later this week though.


----------



## BSF

*Comments on "My God"*

OK Macbeth,
Nifty little story.  I like it.  

The first few lines were a little hard for me, but that could just as easily have been a plummeting blood sugar level as anything about the story.  By the time Christi left, I was hooked and wanted to read it through.  

One thing I have trouble with while reading it is trying to determine Michael's "voice".  I can't tell exactly how indignant he is that his plans for Christi are falling apart.  I can't tell how he feels at Gabriel's arrival, I can't tell how bothered by the goat he is.  You tell us a bit about these things, but I don't really feel them.  You do a much better job describing Gabriel.  

Now, it is not always easy to convey character voice, so don't take that the wrong way.  But, if you can find a way to bring in more character then I think Michael would be a character that can be better empathized with.  

Picture Use:  
Yoshimay Kurosawa was great!  Very interesting way to use the picture.  I would really like to have seen more "soul borrowing" because it has some very interesting implications, and it is dang nifty flavor.  It would have also established that ability a little bit more.  If Gabriel had borrowed a soul from around the time period of when Michael's ancestors were doing such things, it would have helped make Yoshimay Kurosawa feel a little less forced.  

The relics were interesting.  A difficult image to tie in, but you found a way.  It isn't the strongest picture usage, but I didn't think of it as a throwaway either.  

The introduction of God is obviously important!  

The rest, might be described as nothing surprising, but nothing wasted either.  I did like the comment on the lines in grandmother's face being representative of every secret she had learned.  For me, that brings the picture into more relevancy.  Whether everyone else will agree or not, I don't know.  

Overall, I enjoyed it.  I would have liked it to have been a little longer and maybe to explore some ideas in a bit more depth, but it was enjoyable and a bit thought-provoking.  Always a good thing.  

Anyway, I will see you tonight for the game.  I will reserve my non-literary commentary until then.


----------



## Macbeth

Thanks for the feedback. I'll post a more in depth response later, possibly later today if I can get moved out of my room, but I wanted to quickly agree that yes, it should have been longer. I had more ideas, but I just ran out of energy. The last couple of weeks have been an unbelievable drain, what with all that I've had to do, and I just couldn't find the right way to add more. if I had more energy, I think I could expand on it considerably, but I'm just running on empty at this point. Tonight's game will be a nice chance to recharge my batteries, so to speak.


----------



## Eeralai

Hooray!  You finished!  My favorite part of the story was Gabriel being able to pull souls into his body.  That was excellent.  But, because he could do this, I would have thought he would have been able to find God a lot sooner.  I also was bothered by the fact that the grandma knew how to release God, but instead of releasing Him, she just became a nun.  It didn't sound like the whole family had to thank Him, just one member.  If you decide to add to the story, I think flushing out how God should be released would help.  Thanks for the story!  It was a fun read.


----------



## Eeralai

BTW, have you watched Dogma recently?  That's what I couldn't help comparing your story to.  I think Gabriel needs to be more like Alan Rickman, but that's just a personal preference


----------



## mythago

FWIW, don't worry about it being offensive. It's not. And I should know. He's my God, we saw him first


----------



## Zhaneel

MacBeth,

Just finished [quickly] reading through your work.  I did like it, but it didn't really draw me.  And, to me, the thematic ending was a little weak.  And the sledgehammer at the end telling us how Micheal felt [did you choose Micheal for the ArcAngel of war?] rather than a showing that we could interpret didn't work for me.

As for picture use:
I felt that the need to pull in the pictures drove the story, rather than being a part of it.  If that makes sense.  Don't get me wrong, I liked the picture usage, but I felt the story was pulled off the tracks by them.

1) God being the little boy. I actually really liked this and thought it worked well.

2) Mysteries: I liked the explanation but I wanted to see him use them.  Like open the book to find out about Gaberial.  Use the picture to find the goat.  Etc.   QUESTION: Did he have to return the relics with God being back?

3) The sword/Japanese girl.  Didn't work for me.  The idea of Gaberial pullling souls and that soul in particular is the major example of pictures derailing the story.

4) The bloody goat.  I really wanted to see him getting into the sacrifice, not being told that he was.  I think the image worked, but since there was NO effect on Micheal or God, it was again, to me, a picture use derailing the story and not fully contributing.

5) Grandma.  I liked this picture use.  The wrinkles comment really worked for me.  I would have liked her to test him.  And I agree that if she KNEW how to release God but didn't then she's a twit.  IF you explain that she couldn't because she married into the family, that would help [i'm assuming here]

Those are the ones I remember, I think I'm missing one.  Let me know.

But, overall, I liked the story.  Forgive the constant hitting on show versus tell.  It is something that was pointed out to me in my stories and now I'm seeing it everywhere.  *sigh*

Zhaneel


----------



## BSF

My feeling is that Macbeth is going to get dinged on show vs tell as well.  I have taken rebukes for that as well and I still have a hard time working around it.  

I will stand by liking the picture use for Yoshimay Kurosawa.  But, I will say that I think I understand why you feel it derails the story.  For me, that particular soul usage reminded me of a scene in C.S. Lewis' "The Last Battle" in the _Chronicles of Narnia_. I asked Macbeth about it last night before gaming and I did pick up what he was trying to allude at.  Of course, I do know Macbeth as more than a screen name, so it might be easier to pick up these things.  

In fact, that is my primary reason for reiterating my "like" for that picture.  If the allusions of that picture were not picked up on a broad level, then ultimately the picture usage was a failure.  So, for Macbeth, it is important for him to hear the difference in opinion so he can try to strengthen his writing from it.  

As to what he was trying to allude to, I will leave that up to Macbeth to comment on if he chooses to.  Though, he is just finishing the semester and will probably be a sporadic presence on the boards for a couple of weeks.  Still, I know he will find a way to check to see if there are any judgements.


----------



## mythago

It's always interesting how people have different takes/likes/dislikes on a story--I was struck in the last round how the one thing Piratecat really liked was the one thing arwink absolutely hated.

 I agree it would be better if Grandma's "say thank you" were more ambiguous. I took it as Grandma insisting on politeness, and Michael suddenly being struck as to how that would solve his situation, rather than Grandma knowing the solution and hinting at it. But I could see how it could read the other way too.



			
				Zhaneel said:
			
		

> It is something that was pointed out to me in my stories and now I'm seeing it everywhere.



 Occupational hazard of being a writer.    But you can see it when it pops up in your own stuff now, and that's definitely a plus.


----------



## Zhaneel

Review of Mythago's story

Interesting.  You never fail to surprise me with the breadth of types of stories you go after.  The German occult story is getting [IMO] a little overdone in the media, but I'll forgive you.  ;-)

I feel the story was well told, but the ending was a little disappointing.  Like maybe there wasn't quite enough time to fully give it the energy it needed.  I dunno, I may be projecting again but it seemed like the ending was a little too easy.  I didn't feel there was a struggle. 

There were some PoV problem [I think more just missing words to put things in context] and I had a hard time keeping the two hit men differentiated.

On picture use: I think it worked well.  I liked that you included the extra items from mystery & that some of the pieces played a part throughout the story.  I felt that Jakod's intro & picture use there were weak... reminding me of Vritra's Return and the complaints I had there.  I liked the sword-wielding pic very much.  The "one step" [which I forgot for Macbeth] was pretty good, but I just don't liek the pic.  The piano portion of the Texan's story didn't quite work for me.  I find it interesting that both you & Macbeth chose basically the same thing for the nun pic.  

Overall, I liked this story.  I've seen stronger from you in terms of picture usage.  

I'm not sure which I liked better.  They are both very good and very seperate in my head.  Interested to see where this goes.

Zhaneel


----------



## mythago

Thanks for the feedback. I think the ending suffered a little from the enormous headache I developed around page 10, and the fact that I was trying to avoid turning it into a room-by-room battle through the hospital--which, in retrospect, might have actually been more interesting.

_The German occult story is getting [IMO] a little overdone in the media_

 Absolutely. I deliberately wanted to do a two-fisted action/adventure/pulp story, with the plain-spoken All American guy and the witty Brit fighting evil Nazis bent on using sinister Things Man Was Not Meant to Know to take over the free world, etc. etc. I wanted to do it straight (i.e. not as a parody) yet still make it interesting.


----------



## Macbeth

Whew. All I can say about the critizisms of my story: mea culpa. I know that there were some serious problems, incosistencies and showing vs. telling chief amog them. To be honest, I just sisn't have a whole lot of inspiration left. I was tired, and I put out the best I could. I know there are problems, and thanks for the feedback. Hopefully next Cermic DM I'll have enough energy to follow through the whole thing, but so many things were going on I just burnt out. I'm intersted to see how this turns out.


----------



## Zhaneel

Macbeth said:
			
		

> Whew. All I can say about the critizisms of my story: mea culpa.




No apologies.  It was a good story.  It was the best you could do under the constraints of the contest, and I, for one, enjoyed reading it.

Remember what PC said.  Don't apologize for your works.   The critism is how to make it better, not "omg what a horrible story."

I'm not afraid of saying that, if it is true.  It was not true for any of your stories.

Zhaneel


----------



## Sialia

I enjoyed reading both stories.

I especially liked Macbeth's use of "Grief" and Mythago's use of "The First Mystery."

(I promised Piratecat I'd tell him what Grief actually was a picture of after the stories and judging were all in, and would only tell him up front that it was a painting from real life.

Oddly enough, while both the subject of Grief and I remember the moment in which I painted it very clearly, neither of us can now recall what led us to that particularly awful moment.)

I thought Mythago's story ocasionally suffered from stopping forward action to pick up too much backstory. I'd have liked the flashback to "grief" better if it had become relevant again at a later point in the story--if I had needed to know that particular piece of history to get to the ending. Perhaps if it had been broken into several scattered pieces through the tale so that the whole picture didn't really come together until some critical juncture. Strongest assets of the story were the attention to locale and culture--I asked for a story that could distinguish between New Jersey and Ohio, and I got that and change to spare.

Picky, tiny detail for Macbeth--the sacrifice probably should have been done with a super sharp knife across the throat, rather than a disembowelling. But blood sprinkled everywhere is right on. Good picture usage--I liked the way you saw the altar and the blood in the inkblot.


----------



## mythago

What can I say? Those guys just wouldn't shut up when I wanted them to.

 I also have a habit of putting backstory in italics or 'flashback sections' and really wanted to avoid that--I wanted the characters to tell their story, not simply to jump back into their minds.

 The 'mystery' picture was really the heart of the story. I liked being able to put things in the photo (the gold-stamped title) that you couldn't see in the illustration, and taking items out of it to be used later.

 I hope I'm not coming off as sounding defensive--I appreciate all the comments, I'm trying to explain what was going on in my head rather than say "Your criticism is wrong!"


----------



## Sialia

mythago said:
			
		

> What can I say? Those guys just wouldn't shut up when I wanted them to.



Always a good sign--characters with life in 'em have soemthign to say.


> The 'mystery' picture was really the heart of the story. I liked being able to put things in the photo (the gold-stamped title) that you couldn't see in the illustration, and taking items out of it to be used later.



Yes, I thought it might be--it struck me as sort of a cover illo--not the sort of thing that necessarily would wind up literally in the story, but where all the parts would be important to the story, and come together in some meaningful way.  

I especially liked the way you found things in it that were not immediately obvious or visible. Each of those objacts really does have a meaningful backstory, and there are ways that they are linked to each other, each telling something about a part of my life--although any story trying to tell all of those connections would be as long as something by Alex Haley. If I were to try to write it, there would be a lot of bits that were not visible until you knew what the backstories were. Really knowing the pieces does show you things aout them not everyone can see. It felt good that you took the time to build histories for them, and know who they were. Er, what they were, that is.


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## Macbeth

Sialia said:
			
		

> Picky, tiny detail for Macbeth--the sacrifice probably should have been done with a super sharp knife across the throat, rather than a disembowelling. But blood sprinkled everywhere is right on. Good picture usage--I liked the way you saw the altar and the blood in the inkblot.



Ha! Yeah, I guess I just don't have much experience with sacrafices. Thanks for the feedback.


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