# M&M game interest?



## fireinthedust (Dec 9, 2010)

Had a game die on me, just after I completed another with a different group.  (my plan is to do an e20 pathfinder game, then go back to a different level maybe; at the same time, run an off-system game throughout)

So, I'd like to run an M&M game at some point.


This is checking interest.

I have several options:

1)  Superhero murder mystery/crime spree solutions.  Possibly in DC, possibly in a homebrew, possibly in Marvel.

2)  Masters of the Universe (space fantasy, essentially; Earth is somewhere out there, but on this other planet beefy barbarians weild blades and blasters against sorcerers and their armies of robots)

2a)  would be a unique setting with MotU as a theme; we'd work as a group to make it awesome.  Likely more mature than the original series, going back to the roots of Conan and other Sword & Sorcery stories.  I personally would love to play this.

2b)  would be using the filmation setting; yes you can be she-ra.  Also likely more mature, but the series holds up in my view; Mobius did the character design on a lot of it, and Paul Dini did the scripts, so this isn't a loss by a long shot.

3)  Challenge of the Super Friends:  not quite, but we'd be a Justice League fighting a Legion of evil.  More a la JLU season 2, or even Alex Ross' "Justice" miniseries (which was great).  Or Avengers, if you prefer.  Original characters, though we can set it in a familiar world (which, btw, is about to be attacked by aliens, under the thrall of Dr. Villainy!  --or something).  Mars Attacks.

EDIT:

4)  Young Justice:  just saw the trailer.  loving this idea.  Sidekicks teaming up.

5)  Venture Bros-style heroes in an unfortunate series of events that may form an adventure.


IMAGES:


Option 2b
[img=http://www.myfreewallpapers.net/comics/wallpapers/he-man-by-earl-norem.jpg]


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## fireinthedust (Dec 9, 2010)

This wouldn't be the ooc thread, btw; it's more the voting thread for which setting would work.  I'm good for all of them, actually.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 9, 2010)

Saving this post for game info.


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## Insight (Dec 9, 2010)

I vote for #3.  I'm old enough to remember Challenge of the Super-Friends and also that live action Justice League show that lasted one whole episode (I think).

EDIT: 2 episodes! Link


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## fireinthedust (Dec 9, 2010)

serious interest only, pls.  I'll be putting a lot of work into preparation for this, so I'd like to know players will stick around for at least one scenario.


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## Myth and Legend (Dec 9, 2010)

Aww I came here all excited thinking that M&M stands for Might and Magic.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 9, 2010)

I know!   Mittens and Mastodons is another option.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 9, 2010)

Highly interested.

Love the ideas 1-4, but are most fond of 2a.
The MotU 200x serial was a bit more mature (no talking Battle Cat, Adam and He-Man actually looked different, ...) that we can extrapolate on.

Edit: Will this be 2nd or 3rd edition? I have a DCH book and most 2nd stuff, so both are fine for me.


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## Zadaine (Dec 11, 2010)

I like 1 and 2a the most. Same question as Walking Dad, which edition is this, and what's the power level for each of the different options?


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## fireinthedust (Dec 11, 2010)

Edition:  I got a copy of DCA, and would like to learn it as best I can.  2e is great, and I've enjoyed it, but 3e is current; if I created a setting and wanted to publish it one day (which I might), it would need to be in 3e.  Ergo less work.  

Power Level:  I don't know.  Approximately?

1)  Doesn't matter.  The emphasis would be as much on combat as it would be in solving the crimes.  There would be a puzzle or series of puzzles, a la the Riddler, or Long Halloween.  I could do this Gotham Knights style, or Justice League level (so low PL or medium/PL10).  

2)  PL10.  Both A and B are heroic options, although A might not need the plastic-and-neon aspect if we're going more gritty.  Characters would be champions on said fantasy planet, either Eternia/Etheria (option B), or else a homebrew setting (option A).

3)  PL10, less restriction on powers.  Expect monkeys with jet packs, space stations orbiting the dark side of the moon, and a league of villainy.  This could take itself very seriously, however.

4)  PL 6-8, with emphasis on villains and heroes making a big deal about how you're sidekicks, and emphasis on trying to show you're worthy of the big leagues.  You'd literally all be sidekicks.  Some similarity to 3 and 1, and is more along the lines of what age your characters are, and the role they fill.  Likely serious 4-color, if that makes sense.

5)  PL5-6, or by concept.  Less emphasis on stats, way more on concept and situations.  Watch the Venture Bros.  Not serious.  In theory, experimental.  You'd be responsible for determining what you're interested in doing, even if it's unusual.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 11, 2010)

just added some pictures for inspiration.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 12, 2010)

I would say Young Justice should be more PL 8 and less PL 6 from what I have seen. M&M also had always a tendency to work the better the more you keep near to PL 10.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 12, 2010)

sounds good.  could do the older generation of heroes at PL12 then.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 12, 2010)

At least the normal universe Batman and Robin sheets are in the DCH book


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## fireinthedust (Dec 13, 2010)

True.  And perfect to compare to a group of PL8 characters.

I'm not seeing a huge pile of interest here.  Red Sands is really going, though, so maybe they maxed out the M&M population of ENworld?  My impression was the GM really has a solid idea of what setting they want to run.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 13, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> True.  And perfect to compare to a group of PL8 characters.



I'm not sure if you are ironic here...



fireinthedust said:


> I'm not seeing a huge pile of interest here.  Red Sands is really going, though, so maybe they maxed out the M&M population of ENworld?  My impression was the GM really has a solid idea of what setting they want to run.



Could also be the Christmas slowdown and people waiting for the M&M 3e pdf to come out soon.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 13, 2010)

Not ironic:  the levels for Batman and Superman work fine if the PCs are created with PL8 or so in mind.  The grown-up heroes should be more powerful, in that they're already at their prime, a cut above.  Daunting, really.  If played up, the familiar being daunting can up the ante for familiar villains as well: if the Joker takes out the Batman, what's he gonna do to us?  


Christmas Slowdown:  of course!  That's what it is; thought the boards just hated M&M (or worse, me!).  Man, I hate slowdown.  I'm on all the time, why isn't everyone else?!  [/rant]


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## drothgery (Dec 13, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Christmas Slowdown:  of course!  That's what it is; thought the boards just hated M&M (or worse, me!).  Man, I hate slowdown.  I'm on all the time, why isn't everyone else?!  [/rant]




There was a decent amount of interest in this M&M game last month: http://www.enworld.org/forum/talking-talk/296487-insights-agents-artemis-m-m2e-ooc-thread.html , though it didn't get started. And I didn't have problems finding players for a Buffyverse M&M game a couple of years ago (unfortunately, I had to shut it down when I got swamped by work).


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## Insight (Dec 13, 2010)

Yeah, I didn't have any trouble getting 6-8 people interested enough to pitch character concepts.  From my own "interest" thread for that game, people seemed to want a solid idea presented before they would pitch a character idea.  Basically, what game do you want to run?  It seems easier to attract players if they know what the game will be.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 13, 2010)

fair enough.  having options and input, though, would be good for players who take initiative, at least I thought so.

I'm more interested in players than just pitching a setting.  Fun players are fantastic, so that was the focus.  

Meh, post exams I'll have a better idea of what to do.  I've got this and PFe20 to run, plus a home game.  sigh.


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 17, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> Could also be the Christmas slowdown and people waiting for the M&M 3e pdf to come out soon.




I think it's both of these.  I know if my long stalled out game didn't revive I would be waiting until 3e to be released before trying to start an other game (mostly because I'm liking 3e's rule changes).


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## fireinthedust (Dec 17, 2010)

I bought the book as soon as possible.  The only issues are with layout: every chapter is the same color, so it's hard to flip pages.  However, the content is great.  I'm making up characters and trying to figure things out as I go along.  Fun times!

I think I'll try a MotU-style game: slightly different setting, and possibly end up on Earth if we do a second scenario (like the movie!!!), but it's different and potentially fun.


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## hero4hire (Dec 17, 2010)

I would be so down for a Marvel or DC based M&M game. Not so much MotU. Been there down that. Nostalgic about the old cartoon but trying to RP it was not that great for me.
My preference would be a more straightforward superhero game. Strangely that seems to harder and harder to find.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 17, 2010)

hero4hire said:


> I would be so down for a Marvel or DC based M&M game. Not so much MotU. Been there down that. Nostalgic about the old cartoon but trying to RP it was not that great for me.
> My preference would be a more straightforward superhero game. Strangely that seems to harder and harder to find.




While being a big MotU fan, h4h has a point. My game (Gotham Squires), where I aimed for dark but non-lethal vigilantes turned into a mostly super-villain against other villains game. Voda Vosa's game (The Infamous) is straight super-villain and neither Red Sands Chronicles nor  The Malazan Book of the Fallen are superhero games.

Unconventional Heroes doesn't use M&M rules.


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## Voda Vosa (Dec 17, 2010)

Let's face it, we are all neutral evil in the core.

I'm posting interest, as long as it'll be 2e. I don't have 3e rules, sadly.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 17, 2010)

ok, good to know

3e only.  However I can help until you get them/the pdf.  They're extremely similar to 2e, with alterations in the ability scores (there are 8, one of which is BAB, with two of them a division in Dexterity/Agility; the rest are re-named, which works), and some fixes to the skills and feats (called Advantages now).  Also Complications give hero points if they come up, not PP for character creation (a good fix).

Well, if I can get a solid group who'll commit to playing for one scenario, I'd love to just run a game of supers.  I *never* get interest when I post for it, though.

So we'll do Supers:  shall we go for Young Justice (PL8ish) or standard (PL10)?


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## Shayuri (Dec 18, 2010)

Supers, you say?

Now you're talking.

Especially since it's 3e M&M...which I have been looking for a game of.

Tell me more about this supers game's setting and so on.


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## hero4hire (Dec 18, 2010)

> So we'll do Supers:  shall we go for Young Justice (PL8ish) or standard (PL10)?





I would be happy to do either.

Teen games are very popular and the *very* cool "Young Justice" cartoon is still fresh in my brain. But there is something to be said for the old "League of their own" scenario. Interested newbies could grab and archetype and start playing with no fuss with PL 10.

Yeah so...No help from me there.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 18, 2010)

hero4hire said:


> ... Interested newbies could grab and archetype and start playing with no fuss with PL 10.
> 
> ...




I think this is a very good point for a 'new' system. Judging from the heroes in the DCH book, PL 10 is still much 'new kids' when you look at the JLA members.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 18, 2010)

DCA:  yeah, but pl15 for Superman is fair, and makes sense.  Ditto Batman PL12, which is high for a human considering all NPCs are usually PL3 or lower.


If we do Young Justice, we're going max PL8, which is that of Robin in the DCA book.  I don't want any crazy powers that can move mountains, though, but basic young heroes powers.  Potential is good, though, but there needs to be a complication inherent to the power so it's not a ringer.

If we do A League of their Own, we're doing PL 10.

While we're on the subject:  anyone object to DC?  Keep in mind this would be my alternate DCU, as I'm not cannon on all occurances; and I don't necessarily prefer the standard continuity in all respects (I like it, but I also like what some elseworlds have done).


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## fireinthedust (Dec 18, 2010)

finished watching Young Justice for the first time today.  Wow!  

Yeah, Batman has control issues.  The whole league, really.  It's rude: you don't trust your sidekicks?!  Why?  I think the ending just shows another level of control.  Yes, they're the good guys, but I don't like their methods: keeping people on your own team in the dark... just isn't how you run an effective team!


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## fireinthedust (Dec 18, 2010)

Which reminds me: would you folks want to run Young Justice, or go with PL10 League members?


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 19, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Yeah, Batman has control issues.  The whole league, really.  It's rude: you don't trust your sidekicks?!  Why?




I believe it has to deal with what happened the last time the Justice League had a "Bring Your Sidekicks To Work Day.." 
[ame=http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9pBMT0mmKyw]YouTube - Robot Chicken: Justice League - Adult Swim (Official)[/ame]


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## fireinthedust (Dec 19, 2010)

Relique du Madde said:


> I believe it has to deal with what happened the last time the Justice League had a "Bring Your Sidekicks To Work Day.."
> YouTube - Robot Chicken: Justice League - Adult Swim (Official)





Fie, it's not working in Canada and I can't locate it in another name on Youtube!!!

Setting:  If we're going DCA, I'm going to run it in a unique DC setting.  You'll each have to explain yourselves according to DC's ideas.  In fact, if we're going to do Young Justice, you'll each be picking a hero that you're the sidekick for.  If you want Batman, then you're a crime fighter; but you don't have to be Robin, or even this version of Robin (ie: you can be the one from Dark Knight Returns, or whatever).  If you want a Kryptonian, you could be a clone of Superman's, or you could be Supergirl herself, or a Daxamite, etc.  I'd stay back from GLs just for now, or we'll be making them vastly less powerful than the comics.  Martians are good, though.

Whatever you pick, you're a weaker version of a hero; or else just a PL8 version of whatever you'd like to be.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 19, 2010)

Okay, I'm going to get to work on this.   I may recruit now or after the holidays, and I might put a thread up on Atomicthinktank to bring folks here for the game as well.

 If you folks are into it, you've got first dibs on mentors, on being part of this game.  


However, I want you to commit to at least one scenario/adventure(!).  If I say I'll do it, I'll do it, and I'll give it my best shot; if I hate it, I'll let the group know what's what.  I ask this from all players in return.  It's hard work preparing for a game!

I'm going to go PL8, but if you need help with stats let me know (I'll do my best)


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## Voda Vosa (Dec 19, 2010)

I'll do it! Although I can only give you a 2e character, you'll have to convert it.


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## hero4hire (Dec 19, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> Okay, I'm going to get to work on this.   I may recruit now or after the holidays, and I might put a thread up on Atomicthinktank to bring folks here for the game as well.
> 
> If you folks are into it, you've got first dibs on mentors, on being part of this game.
> 
> ...




I am down. I will think on a mentor. Maybe I will pick a Leaguer who is a bit lesser known for sidekicks like Zatanna or Hawkman?


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## Shayuri (Dec 19, 2010)

I'd like to play. A mentor might be tricky, since I have a penchant for kind of odd power concepts and I'm not -terribly- familiar with the DCU, beyond the biggest and most famous names.

What I usually do with supers games, and will probably do here too, is shotgun out a few general concepts, and get some feedback as to which suits the campaign most bestest...which in this case will include whether or not the concept has a clear mentor...and then use that.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 19, 2010)

Mentors:  off-beat heroes can work with just about anyone.  Keep in mind that DC has some fairly out-there concepts rolling around.  Superman has Steel as a buddy, who's got the Iron Man thing going on.  The Teen Titans have a wide range of heroes, and many of them could graduate to the JLA with no problems.  Magic has Dr. Fate or Zatara as mentor potentials (I suspect Zatanna is going to join Young Justice at some point).  The Amazons, Martians...  Maybe your character expands that mentor's portfolio a bit, or is associated with one of their villains (ie: heroic Brainiac, or a refuge from another planet who hangs out with Superman)

I'll be having the game set fairly recently in Supers history, like the Young Justice show.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 19, 2010)

Would a time and space displaced *Durlan*  (from the Legion of Superheroes area) work? Mentor would be the Martian Manhunter, as the local prominent shapeshifting alien. I really love Martians, but it is hard to do them with 120 PP and to many in existence would ruin their theme (see the last son of Krypton...)


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## fireinthedust (Dec 20, 2010)

heh, read up on Durlans: sounds fun.  I wonder if we could have him be found in the arctic, in a pair of destroyed American and Norwegian science stations, circa 1983...?      Reminded me of John Carpenter's The Thing, with the scanners.

You'll need to have specific forms you take, using Alternate Form.  I don't want to do Variable power for Young Justice.  I can even see it as only a few forms with minor powers, or just disguise... but only disguises is boring!  
     The Scanners would be sense of some sort, with Detect I think.

EDIT:   Martians are fine.  Keep in mind Miss Martian wouldn't need to exist on this world.  And, moreover, you could be Martian Manhunter's clone via Cadmus, or Luthor, or however.  

Regardless: so long as he's approximately in a range that lets him/her interact meaningfully with the other characters, that's fine.  The spectrum is Robin to Superboy, around the PL of the Young Justice episode.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

Ok, than I choose some specific 'battle changes' as alternate forms (who are alternate powers to each other) & 5 ranks of morph?

You got me hooked, perhaps I will try to make a low cost martian.

The scanners are more like a feature. I only know of one instance they were useful to really detect someone.


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## hero4hire (Dec 20, 2010)

It seems there is a young Zachary Zatara who is cousing to Zatanna with similiar abilities already in comics. He is arrogant to the point of being insufferable. A real Jackhole. Kinda mixed feelings about playing such a jerk. I know _I know_ I don't have to stick with the canon personality...But it would seem to do the character a bit of an injustice making him play nice?


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## hero4hire (Dec 20, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> Ok, than I choose some specific 'battle changes' as alternate forms (who are alternate powers to each other) & 5 ranks of morph?
> 
> You got me hooked, perhaps I will try to make a low cost martian.
> 
> The scanners are more like a feature. I only know of one instance they were useful to really detect someone.




The 2e Martian in _Instant Heroes_ has a good example of using alt powers instead of shapechange.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

But he is not dynamic 
So, if he looks like someone else, he has a glass jaw. 

But I still love instant heroes for 2nd edition. I hope their will be something similar for 3rd edition.


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## hero4hire (Dec 20, 2010)

Walking Dad said:


> But he is not dynamic
> So, if he looks like someone else, he has a glass jaw.




I know I am kinda a weird minority, but I think that is kinda cool.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

Below is work in progress, as I will change a character archetype step by step

[sblock]Durlan PL8

*ABILITIES*

STRENGTH
STAMINA
AGILITY
DEXTERITY
FIGHTING
INTELLECT
AWARENESS
PRESENCE


*POWERS*
Durlan Morphology: Array (20 points)
• Intangibility: Insubstantial 4, Dynamic • 21 points
• Density: Protection 2, Impervious Toughness 12, Sustained,
Dynamic • 2 points
• Invisibility: Visual Concealment 4, Dynamic • 2 points
• Big Creatures: Growth 10, Dynamic • 2 points
• Small Creatures: Shrinking 20 , Dynamic • 2 points
• Strong like a bull: 
Enhanced Trait (STRENGTH), sustained
Enhanced Trait (STAMINA), sustained
Enhanced Trait AGILITY
Enhanced Trait DEXTERITY


Shapeshifting: Morph (any form) 4 • 20 points

• 27 point total

*ADVANTAGES*
Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 3, Move-by Action, Seize
Initiative, Taunt

*SKILLS*
Close Combat: Unarmed 4 (+10), Deception 6 (+9), Expertise:
Zoology 6 (+7), Perception 6 (+8), Stealth 6 (+10)

*OFFENSE*
INITIATIVE +21
Unarmed +101 Close, Damage 11
1 Varies based on shape.

*DEFENSE*
DODGE 81
PARRY 81
FORTITUDE 81
TOUGHNESS 5/2*1
WILL 101 *Without Defense Roll bonus

*POWER POINTS*
ABILITIES 38
SKILLS 14
POWERS 72
DEFENSES 22
ADVANTAGES 5
TOTAL 150

Complication: Morphology Power can only be used to simulate traits of the creature he morphed into.[/sblock]


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## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

2nd variant, not using MM's Morphology power as a template, but an array.

Below is work in progress, as I will change a character archetype step by step

Durlan PL8

[sblock]*ABILITIES*

STRENGTH
STAMINA
AGILITY
DEXTERITY
FIGHTING
INTELLECT
AWARENESS
PRESENCE


*POWERS*
Durlan Shape Array: Dynamic Array (20 points)
• Disguises: Morph 4 (any) • 2 points
• Rock People:
• Kansidian Dragon:
• Darntor Chameleon Cat:
• Scyllit Scorpion:
• Hyxbinan Gas Form: 


• 27 point total

*ADVANTAGES*
Defensive Attack, Defensive Roll 3, Move-by Action, Seize Initiative, Taunt

*SKILLS*
Close Combat: Unarmed 4 (+10), Deception 6 (+9), Expertise: Zoology 6 (+7), Perception 6 (+8), Stealth 6 (+10)

*OFFENSE*
INITIATIVE +21
Unarmed +101 Close, Damage 11
1 Varies based on shape.

*DEFENSE*
DODGE 8
PARRY 8
FORTITUDE 8
TOUGHNESS 5/2*1
WILL 10
*Without Defense Roll bonus

*POWER POINTS*
ABILITIES 38
SKILLS 14
POWERS 72
DEFENSES 22
ADVANTAGES 5
TOTAL 120
[/sblock]


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## Shayuri (Dec 20, 2010)

Hmm...we have a shapeshifter and we have a magickan...those are two concepts I often leap at. But that's good, lets me think of newer ideas.

Let me lob ideas, and you DC gurus can suggest characters/mentors that might work for 'em.

Another Infamous List:
1) Mentalist - A character with telepathic and telekinetic abilities. I envision some limited 'mind control' limited to specific verbal commands perhaps...that or Astral Projection and Possession. Perhaps some Illusion to represent telepathic manipulation of senses.

2) Photokineticist - Visual illusions, perhaps some weak TK to create sounds as well. Lasers and dazzle afflictions. Invisibility. 

3) Electrokineticist - Electrical/magnetic attacks and defenses. Possible flight via interaction with Earth's magnetic field. Communication/influence over electronic devices.

4) Gadgeteer - Makes stuff. Cool stuff. Probably has some kind of 'battle harness' or armor to fight in, though not as full featured as "power armor" theme character's would be.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 20, 2010)

H4H:  why not just play an *alternate* Zatanna?  Imagine if she went less classic stage magician, and had gone the route of Chris Angel Mindfreak:  more in-your-face, rock n roll, tattoos and top hats.  At the very least, a different style, one that irks her more proper father.


New twists:  I had a shapeshifter PC for a player.  We called her Dino-girl.  She was like Beast Boy, but instead of animals she focused on Dinosaurs.  T-rex form, all that stuff.


Legion characters could associate with Superman.  That makes sense, as he hung out with them as Superboy.


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## Voda Vosa (Dec 20, 2010)

Concept: The Persian


Once the mightiest warrior of the Persian army, Zarsauthra walked like a god among men. Generals bowed before him, and listened to his advice in the batlefield. He turned the tides of battle, with wits and his implacable steel. He fought for what he thought right, for what he thought it was justice, for what the gods told him, was his holy mission. 
Oh evasive destiny, how you trap those that have faith on you! 
During the battle of Thermopylae, Zarsauthra fought well, but the spartans fought better. Their courage and their bravery stroke Zarsauthra like an arrow in the head. Why was he fighting these men? This was their home, a small piece of land, insignificant, with no natural resources. Why did the Persina empereor wanted these lands so badly? Was it right? Was it the will of the gods? Would the gods be so cruel? Or was it just the greed of a man, that knew nothing of the world outside the royal courts? 
In this moment of doubt, the spartans surrounded Zarsauthra, and their accurate blows sent the Persian immortal to the ground. He died that day, and descended to the underworld. But his moment of enlightenment was worth it. Zarsauthra paid his debt with the world with more than two thousand years of punishment. He stand firm and determined, for when his torment was over, he unleashed from the chains of fire, and found his way out of the labyrinthine underworld. 
It was now time to be a true hero, a true Immortal. No matter that these times were different (two thousand years were a lot of time) some things never change, like the struggle between evil and good.
The Persian will change the tides!


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## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> ...
> 
> New twists:  I had a shapeshifter PC for a player.  We called her Dino-girl.  She was like Beast Boy, but instead of animals she focused on Dinosaurs.  T-rex form, all that stuff.
> ...




I know to much supers stuff to find new twists:

Kid Dinosaur

Reptil


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## fireinthedust (Dec 20, 2010)

VV:   okay, interesting.  I like the 300 reference, though you might want to have him survive the battle so he's better than run-of-the-mill Spartans: he's the hero.  Maybe he died of his wounds, or was betrayed or something.

1)  How is he a super hero?
2)  How is he alive and in the real world?
3)  What is his tie-in to the JLA/his mentor?
4)  What are his powers?


Shayuri:   Good list.  My first question:  

1)  what do you think would be fun to play?  Like, actually play, not just make up/stat.
2)  What would be the least amount of work for the GM?
3)  What would be the most fun for the GM?


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## Shayuri (Dec 20, 2010)

Great questions!

1) what do you think would be fun to play? Like, actually play, not just make up/stat.

- All would be fun. I didn't throw them out here just for statting purposes.  But I think the photokinetic and gadgeteer are developing the best, characterwise, in my head so far. The mentalist is reminding me a lot of Raven though.

2) What would be the least amount of work for the GM?

- Probably the electrical controller. With the exception of his hacking ability, he has the fewest "GM's call" abilities. The others have things like illusions and so on, which require adjudication on the fly...and of course, gadgets always require player/GM collaboration.

3) What would be the most fun for the GM? 

- Depends on what you consider fun! But I think the gadgeteer has arguably the best 'hook' so far. She's a rogue creation of Brainiac!


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## Voda Vosa (Dec 20, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> VV:   okay, interesting.  I like the 300 reference, though you might want to have him survive the battle so he's better than run-of-the-mill Spartans: he's the hero.  Maybe he died of his wounds, or was betrayed or something.
> 
> 1)  How is he a super hero?
> 2)  How is he alive and in the real world?
> ...




Yes he is the hero, but Superman would also die if he is pierced by 8 gladiuses. Plus, the fact that he "died" serves as the explanation as to why is he in the present world, and gets the feel of more a "supersoldier" than a "flying dude that punches people".

1) Well he is a Persian Immortal. He has mastered the art of the weapons and the body through hard training, meditation and rituals for the Persian Gods.

2) As a Persian Immortal he can't really die, he is sent to the underworld for failing the Gods. Once his debt is paid, he is free again. Zarsauthra walked the underworld, making his way slaying monstrosities and spirits, until he found the exit to the surface.

3) Really don't know, would appreciate suggestions.

4) Glad you asked. Here's his array in 2e. 

The Persian Array:	10 ranks, 3 cost per rank (27 points for the array + 3 for each AP: 30 pp)	
Weapon Master Array-----------------	
> Sword (Strike)	8	
>>EX: Penetrating, Autofire	
>>PF: Split attack (3)	

>Spear (Strike) 8	
>>EX: Penetrating, secondary effect	
>>PF: Thrown, Reach (2)	

>Bow (Blast) 8	
>>EX: Autofire	
>>PF: Precise, Improved Range (2)	

> Dance of the thousand knives	8	
>>EX: Aura	

------------------------------------

>Protection [Impervious] 6

>Shield	10		

>Enhanced Strenght	12	

>Superstrenght	1	
>>Groundstrike	1	
>>Shockwave	1


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## Walking Dad (Dec 20, 2010)

It seems impossible for me to do a durlan like shapeshifter without a variable power 

What I see as possibility is a themed shapeshifter (like beast boy/changeling) or an elastic hero that also contorts his form (more like Mr Fantastic than Plastic Man power-wise).

But both seem so much done, without a new twist... I fear to end up with just a less capable version of an established hero 

Maybe a Durlan version of beast boy who primarily assumes the shapes of alien beasts that have some resemblance to earthly ones...

Sorry for thinking loud here 

---

To add something useful:

Shayuri, if you choose the electrical controller, I would suggest Black Lightning as your mentor.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 21, 2010)

VV:  Giving positive feedback, he's action-oriented.  That should be fun. 

Relevant Question:  how is he Young Justice material?  He's thousands of years old and already proven as a warrior many times over.  The others in the group are 13-16, one of them is technically only a few months if that.  How would you fit him into that group?  

I ask because he's a fair dose of awesome that could just be in the League, not the sidekick squad.  The theme is coming into their own, and stepping out of the shadow of their mentors.

EDIT:  for example, is he a kid who channels the skills of the Persian?  Is he the last descendant of the Persian's line, who inherited his ancestor's skills with a blade, as well as a magical blade and (say) a flying carpet?  Was the original Persian a young lad, who was slain after refusing to attack the Spartans out of a sense of duty and honor; and after the Underworld, he never truly aged but was frozen in time?

The Underworld is a Greek concept, though, although I can see Sumerian influences (re: Gilgamesh).  The Persian would necessarily be pre-Islam, then, so Muslim "isms" wouldn't be used for the character... especially considering he spent time in the actual pagan underworld run by Hades, and met the Greek gods firsthand.

Also:  would you tie him in with as a mentor... who?  Wonder Woman and the Amazons?  They might have attacked the Spartans, though I can't see them allying with Xerxes during the 300.  Maybe some debt they owed, thus allowing themselves to act as mercenaries.  Thinking out loud, perhaps The Persian moved to save an Amazon, took those 8 swords to the gut/face/back, and died.  Maybe he was reanimated by them due to some battle with Hades during this continuity's Wonder Woman Origin story a few years back?  
    Or maybe it was the League of Shadows who reanimated him to fight Batman, he failed, but befriended the Dark Knight.
    Or his soul was sold by Hades in a trade and he was bounced around until Etrigan or Dr Fate saved him, deciding to use him to help the world.


Age is the issue, and his relative apprentice status.


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## Voda Vosa (Dec 21, 2010)

Great suggestions. I have a few possible situations to converse with you then.
Things of note: The Persian lived during the 480 BC. He knows little of dealing “Non lethal” damage, if you catch my drift. His mind is that of a fanatic soldier. First he fought and killed for Xerxes, and now he intends to do that in the name of good and justice.  Maybe this is the reason as to why he is with the Young Justice league. He has to learn how to be a hero and not a killer with good intentions. Perhaps he is “awesome” enough to be in the league, but not powerful enough. He’s a guy with archaic weapons, no flying, no superpowers. Although he might be wiser and more centered than most of the instable teenagers he has around, it would be a good thing for them I believe: Having a parental figure that will slice you in half if you don’t behave is as strong motivation as any.
Regarding the Underworld, it’s a concept that most ethnicities developed. Norse people, Egyptians, Sumerians, Greeks, you name it, they have their own version of the underworld. 
What about this:
Instead of leading the attack on Thermopyla, Zarsusthra was charged with the mission of securing another stronghold of the greek, Paradise Island. Although the amazons wanted nothing to do with the world of men, the emperor Xerxes knew nothing about that, or just didn’t care: It was greek land, thus, it should now belong to him. Zarsusthra fought the amazons blablabla (Same story as with the Spartans) and was defeated in the end. In his fall he took the lives of many amazons and thus he was portrayed as the second most powerful enemy the amazons had defeated, after Heracles. When Wonder Woman found out about his resurrection, she tried to confront him and send him back to the underworld. But when she learned his heart had changed, she befriended the confused Persian, and sought to teach him the modern ways of Heroisms.


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## Shayuri (Dec 21, 2010)

Here's what I have worked up so far...a full sheet for my weird nano-cyber-android-type-thing who is very much a work in progress in-character. I have all kinds of stuff I wanted to get that at PL8/120pts I am having to wait to develop. 

Including a basic backstory that I'll flesh out shortly.

I'm still kind of torn between this and the photokinetic...but this one has the most room for future growth, so I'm starting with it.

[sblock=Echo]CODENAME: Echo
Concept/Archetype: Cyborg
Power Level: 8
Power Points: 120
Experience Points: 0
Hero Points: 1

ABILITIES 26
STR +0 (0 PP)
AGI +0 (0 PP)
DEX +2 (4 PP)
STA +2 (4 PP)
FGT +0 (0 PP)
INT +7 (14 PP)
AWE +2 (4 PP)
PRE +0 (0 PP)

SAVES (17pp)
TOUG 18 (2 Sta + 6 Power)
FORT 15 (3 Base + 2 Sta) (3 PP)
DODG 15 (5 Base + 0 Agi) (5 PP)
PARR 14 (4 Base + 0 Fgt) (4 PP)
WILL 17 (5 Base + 2 Awe) (5 PP)

Init: +0

ATTACK
Melee: Attack +3 (DC 14 Fort + DC 19 Toughness, Nano-Dissassembly)
Ranged: Attack +6 (DC 21, 100', +4 penetrating)

SKILLS 20 SP (10 PP)
Close Combat (Nano-Disassembly) +3
Expertise: Science +10 (3 ranks + 7 Int)
Investigation +10 (3 ranks + 7 Int)
Perception +8 (6 ranks + 2 Awe)
Technology +14 (5 ranks + 7 Int + 2 power)

MOVEMENT
Ground: 30' (or per Vehicle)

FEATS (4 PP)
Ranged Attacks 2
Inventor 1
Eidetic Memory 1

POWERS 
Nanocyte Array 20pp
Nano-Disassembly - Weaken Toughness +4 (2pp/rnk, Affects Objects +1/rnk, Link, PF Accurate) 13pp
- Linked: Damage +4 (1pp/rnk, PF Accurate), 5pp
AP Assembly - Transform +6 (Raw Materials into Finished Objects, Continuous; 3pp/rnk) 1pp
AP Healing +6 (2pp/rank, Affects Objects +1/rnk) 1pp

Phased Offensive Array 19pp
Focused Laser - Damage +6 (Ranged, Penetrating (+4), PF Accurate) 17pp
AP HERF Gun - Nullify +5 (Broad (Technology), Simultaneous, Alt Defense (Dodge); 3pp/rnk) 1pp
AP Dazzle Laser - Affliction +5 (Visual, Ranged, Cumulative, PF Accurate; 3pp/rnk) 1pp

Not Arrayed 26pp
Protection +6 (1pp/rnk) 6pp
Immunity +4 (Age, Disease, Poison, Sleep) 4pp
Quickness +4 (Mental Only; .5pp/rnk) 2pp
Comprehend +2 (Machines), 4pp
Nanotools - Enhanced Skills (+2 to Technology) 1pp
Improvised Tools 1pp
Communication +1 (Radio, PF Rapid; 4pp/rnk) 5pp
Super Sense: Microscopic Vision +2, 2pp
Super Sense: +1 rnks Radio (Acute Ranged Radius) 1pp

DRAWBACKS
Vulnerable to Electrical Attacks (Minor, Uncommon) -1
Weakness to EMP (Minor, Uncommon, Instant) -1

COST
Abilities [26]
Saves [17]
Skills [10]
Feats [4]
Powers [65]
Drawbacks [-2]
Total [120]
Unspent [0][/sblock]

[sblock=Background Summary]At some point or another, Superman & Friends were alerted to the location of one of Brainiac's 'factory worlds.' An automated, fortified manufacturing and research complex hidden on a dead world far from anything interesting. Here robot factories churned out probes to search the cosmos for alien technology that their master had not already appropriated...and also, something else. In the research wing were a series of pods, in the process of self-destructing their contents in reaction to the invasion. They were able to stop the last one from successfully destroying its occupant. Inside was what appeared to be a teenage girl.

Though compassionate, the Justice League was not stupid. The girl was kept unconscious in isolation until a full analysis could be done. The results were startling. She was a fusion of organic and machine on a level never before seen. Every cell of her body was equipped with tiny, symbiotic machinery. She was technically a cyborg, but there were no implants, no surgeries. In her, flesh and machine were literally one.

By accessing the information they'd retrieved from the factories' computers, the League discovered several things. The girl was based on a clone of a rare individual who had the mental ability to interface with machinery...a 'technopath,' discovered, abducted and used as a source of genetic material by Brainiac. The technopathic power was necessary for such an intimate symbiosis of artificial parts...it kept the body from trying to reject the foreign bits, and subconsciously regulated the machinery to work in harmony with the body. The difficulty of this task prevented the 'Echo' series of clones from exercising their technopathy for anything else however. He had been experimenting with downloading information into their minds, with the eventual goal of transfering his consciousness into one. Thus far, the project had been unsuccessful though. Data; facts and figures, even skils, could be uploaded to the clones. But he had yet to find a way to 'override' the mind of one of them with his own mind without destroying the technopathic ability crucial to maintaining the inner balance.

In the meantime, the League found that the Echo they had rescued had recieved only a very limited set of data and skills in its download; no part of Brainiac was within her. With that in mind, they carefully allowed her to regain conciousness. After a short...she learned very quickly...adjustment period, she was deemed to be self-sufficient; but with nowhere else to go, she elected to join the new team forming under Batman's tutelage and become like the only people she had yet encountered; a superhero.[/sblock]


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## fireinthedust (Dec 22, 2010)

VV:  I've given it a lot of thought, and I just can't see an adult with homicidal tendencies being partnered up with a group of teenagers; likewise, he can't be a mentor to them, as he needs a mentor himself.
     It's a great character idea, don't get me wrong, but it doesn't fit this campaign.  He needs to be a teenager, and I'm increasingly sure that he needs to be fairly 4-color good guy.  I'm looking to do a straight superhero game without it veering off course; which it would if you played the concept properly (which I assume you would do a good job of playing him that way).  

I'm looking for someone young, someone good, someone trying to prove themselves and find their place in the world.  Also someone who's a real superhero; emphasis spandex and hero name.  Try a different concept, maybe something more... campy?  Fun?  Or even just straightforward?  Think capes, tights, masks.  The fundamentals.


Shayuri:  brief skim here.  Mentor Superman, due to the Brainiac link?


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## fireinthedust (Dec 22, 2010)

Shayuri:  recommend more sci-fi names for your guns, like "nega ray" or "nano beams" or "cosmic currents".


Really great ideas from everyone here.  I'm going to figure out the new Thread tomorrow (need sleep), so we focus the people who we need to have join us into seeing what kind of game we're going to run.


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## Walking Dad (Dec 22, 2010)

I'm not sure how quickly I will be able to join the new thread, but still interested and working on the character. (See my status for absence details.)


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## Shayuri (Dec 22, 2010)

I haven't put a lot of work into the cosmetic details just yet. I figured I'd get feedback on the mechanics first. 

As for mentor, I was thinking one of the more technical-minded members might be more suited...but there aren't really a lot of "techie" heroes. Cyborg maybe.

So really, I'm pretty wide open on mentor choice. Superman makes some sense due to the Brainiac link. Wonder Woman could work on a 'girl power' level. Batman matches her love of gadgets and is the only major hero who matches or exceeds her intelligence (going by the book's stats).

Looking for some feedback here then, on which hero you think would be most likely to -want- to mentor her.


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## fireinthedust (Dec 22, 2010)

Red Tornado was in the show.  I believe he'd work, though I don't know or much care for the character.

Cyborg could be in the JLA in this continuity.  I like him, and think he'd work well.

Batman has Robin, and I think he'd work best for caped crimefighter types who fit with that franchise.


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## Shayuri (Dec 22, 2010)

Lets say Cyborg then, since I think he's the most natural choice. He's a bit of a gearhead himself, and he has some experience dealing with being both artificial and natural, albeit in a very different way.


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## hero4hire (Dec 22, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> H4H:  why not just play an *alternate* Zatanna?  Imagine if she went less classic stage magician, and had gone the route of Chris Angel Mindfreak:  more in-your-face, rock n roll, tattoos and top hats.  At the very least, a different style, one that irks her more proper father.




I am not that comfortable playing the opposite sex. At least for anything I want to play long term. But the Criss Angel idea is still a really good one.


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