# [Star Wars] Somebody bought the license



## Keefe the Thief (Dec 14, 2010)

See RPG.net thread here. 

The short version: Mongoose made a bid for it and lost to somebody else. They do not want to say who, but it seems that the deal is finished. 

I wonder who had the money to buy all those licenses (RPG, minis etc.). I hope it's not Paizo - they are an awesome company but we do not need another d20 iteration. And i don't think they are going to create a whole new system.

I'm hoping for FFG, Green Ronin or Cubicle 7, myself.


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## SPECTRE666 (Dec 14, 2010)

Never mind figured it out...


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## Leatherhead (Dec 14, 2010)

I kind of wish Wotc kept the system afloat for other projects at least.


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## Cyronax (Dec 14, 2010)

SAGA was such a good system. Is there a chance WotC re-purchased the license, possibly having re-negotiated it?

C.I.D.


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## JeffB (Dec 14, 2010)

Keefe the Thief said:


> I hope it's not Paizo - they are an awesome company but we do not need another d20 iteration.




Agreed. PLEASE no more D20 Star Wars rule sets.  

I'd also like to see FFG grab it.


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## kitsune9 (Dec 14, 2010)

My bet would be FFG if I had to make a guess, but I wouldn't be suprised if Paizo got it. It's kind of a process of elimination of who's got the money to buy the license.

For me, my favorite Star Wars was d6. I do have the SAGA version and had the other d20 version, but couldn't get into them. I'm not saying they are bad, but just not for me.  If FFG gets the license, then I would be very interested in what kind of system they create to get that "Star Wars feel".


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## Keefe the Thief (Dec 14, 2010)

Now that i think back... haven't the Paizo guys repeatedly said that they didn't want to work on licensed properties anymore? As in, generate content and art without being able to keep it? If they haven't changed their opinion on this, they are out. 

Huh, i don't think they have the manpower, but what about Red Brick? Earthdawn, FAding Suns, now Star Wars... nah, too small.


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## abhorsen950 (Dec 14, 2010)

Interesting! Very interesting, I honestly thought it would die in the water once Wotc dropped it, I didn't think anybody would want to put the money forward to buy up the licence for it and get making it.

I would love to see as not a D20 system I want to play a system that isn't D20.

We will soon see.


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## Alaxk Knight of Galt (Dec 14, 2010)

I'll put my money on AEG.  They've got L5R and the Late, Great 7th Sea.  Doing SW with the Roll and Keep system would rock


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## delericho (Dec 14, 2010)

If I were in charge at WotC, then at the first hint of interest, I would probably buy back that license, if only to prevent anyone else from getting it.

On a personal level, I'm just not interested in any new Star Wars RPG. We've now had six versions across two entirely different systems, with a number of fan conversions to other systems out there as well. I really don't know what more can be done for the universe, RPG-wise.


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## possum (Dec 14, 2010)

Well, whoever has it, I can only hope that they decide to support the minis line and RPG line equally (unlike someone we know...), and that they produce a quality product that honors both the WEG and WotC legacies of the line.


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## Diamond Cross (Dec 14, 2010)

I'd love to see Star wars for the Unisystem!

Dun dun duuuuuuuuuuuun.


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## frankthedm (Dec 14, 2010)

kitsune9 said:
			
		

> It's kind of a process of elimination of who's got the money to buy the license.



Uhg. I have a bad feeling Gouge Workshop bough the license.


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## Greg K (Dec 14, 2010)

I hope we never see another d20 class/level version (I am not a fan of it for licensed products).

The only systems that would interest me are Savage Worlds or Cortex (if it went more with the version used for Supernatural rather than that used for Leverage or Smallville).  Cinematic Unisystem would interest me if the skills were less broad.


And, like at least one other person, I have a bad feeling that Games Workshop got it.


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## ggroy (Dec 14, 2010)

Greg K said:


> And, like at least one other person, I have a bad feeling that Games Workshop got it.




If it is indeed the case that Games Workshop got the Star Wars license, wonder if this partially explains why Games Workshop licensed out Warhammer FRP to Fantasy Flight Games, instead of keeping it in-house.


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## billd91 (Dec 14, 2010)

kitsune9 said:


> My bet would be FFG if I had to make a guess, but I wouldn't be suprised if Paizo got it. It's kind of a process of elimination of who's got the money to buy the license.




Probably. But maybe the price has dropped some since WotC walked away from renewing. All we know is that they'd have to be able to outbid Mongoose at this point in time. We don't have any idea of the amount Mongoose was able to bid or what a minimum bid would have been.


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## Treebore (Dec 14, 2010)

It could also be someone completely new, but out of the ones mentioned I would guess FFG too.


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## beldar1215 (Dec 14, 2010)

I don't think this is possible, but it would be cool to see this come out for Savage Worlds!! I don't think PEG has the money to do this though.

Beldar


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## fireinthedust (Dec 14, 2010)

The problem is that SWSE is so comprehensive and *recent* I can't think of a recent I'd want to shell out anything to re-buy what I already have.  

I don't understand why any company would want to do Star Wars in an over-saturated market like this one.  There is so much stuff out there that has been covered and re-covered.

I bet it's Kevin Siembieda and Palladium.  He's decided he just doesn't care any more and wants to convert all his favorite movies into Rifts!!!


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## Cergorach (Dec 14, 2010)

Unlike other folks that replied here, I can actually read: "Now, the company concerned is not known for its miniatures lines", that means no Games Workshop. A shame really, I think they would do the miniatures great justice (multi pose plastic storm troopers)!

I seriously doubt the price of the license became any less, I think it actually became more expensive, and that is the reason why WotC didn't pursue it. There are few who could afford such a license. My first thought was "Paizo???", but the folks that really have a handle on licensed properties is FFG and they do have the money. I would expect boardgames, LCGs and maybe a RPG. I say maybe, because the market for RPGs isn't all that great at the moment. I also hope that they don't go the route of WFRP 3E, I want a book, not a boxed rpg/boardgame hybrid...


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## CAFRedblade (Dec 14, 2010)

Hrrm. 
A company that handles RPG's, mini's and possibly ccg's.  
Based on the above information I think we can rule out:
Wizards. (just left the license, unlikely to repurchase)
Games Workshop (above info seems it would rule them out)
Paizo (I'm not aware of any mini line that they have) 
Steve Jackson Games ( I don't think they do minis, but they do have the ccg capabilities)
Mongoose (lost a long shot bid)
DP9 - although I'd love to see what they could do, they have enough work on their own products to do, mini and RPG
White Wolf???  

Who does this leave that can handle in some form all three criteria?


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## pawsplay (Dec 14, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> The problem is that SWSE is so comprehensive and *recent* I can't think of a recent I'd want to shell out anything to re-buy what I already have.
> 
> I don't understand why any company would want to do Star Wars in an over-saturated market like this one.  There is so much stuff out there that has been covered and re-covered.




On the other hand, consider the perspective of someone who thought SWSE was basically a failure. You are probably not the target audience. The fact that WotC was willing to give up the license suggests that many people do not share your perspective on SWSE's position in the canon of Star Wars rpgs.


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## JeffB (Dec 15, 2010)

pawsplay said:


> On the other hand, consider the perspective of someone who thought SWSE was basically a failure.




Or those like me who just did not like the D20 treatment to the property. After the first edition half baked verison, and then the revised mega crunch version, I'd had enough. I never even had the desire to purchase the SAGA book-despite Rodneys involvement in the product line  (having been a big fan of SWRPG network)

I'm totally up for a new SW RPG and ready to throw some cash around  AS LONG AS its not D20 (or that level of crunch/complexity). I'd like to see a leaner cleaner system- about WEG D6 complexity, but obviously dealing with the issues that game had.


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## DaveMage (Dec 15, 2010)

AEG or FFG would be my guess too.


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## frankthedm (Dec 15, 2010)

Cergorach said:


> "Now, the company concerned is not known for its miniatures lines", that means no Games Workshop.



Until you had posted it, that information was not available in this thread, just at rpg.net.


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## jaerdaph (Dec 15, 2010)

Also at RPGNet - it's not Paizo either:

http://paizo.com/paizo/messageboards/paizoPublishing/general/starWarsRPGLicensePurchased

Come on guys, we're slacking! We should be scooping Big Purple, not the other way around!


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## SteveC (Dec 15, 2010)

I would think that FFG is the only company that would have the money to work a license like this. That's exciting for me, I only hope that whoever does get it is able to do something different than what we've seen before. As a number of folks have said, the WotC product line is very recent.

I'd love to see a series of FFG boardgames based on the different eras... that would please me quite a bit. We'll have to see, I suppose.

--Steve


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## DragonLancer (Dec 15, 2010)

The only one I can think of would be FFG and would expect them to do a better job of it than WotC did. I just don't think I'm interested enough to buy a whole new Star Wars RPG again.


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## Katana_Geldar (Dec 15, 2010)

fireinthedust said:


> The problem is that SWSE is so comprehensive and *recent* I can't think of a recent I'd want to shell out anything to re-buy what I already have.
> 
> I don't understand why any company would want to do Star Wars in an over-saturated market like this one. There is so much stuff out there that has been covered and re-covered.




Me too, I rather like Saga, it's where I learned to DM and it's still the favourite system that I run.


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## possum (Dec 15, 2010)

JeffB said:


> Or those like me who just did not like the D20 treatment to the property. After the first edition half baked verison, and then the revised mega crunch version, I'd had enough. I never even had the desire to purchase the SAGA book-despite Rodneys involvement in the product line  (having been a big fan of SWRPG network)
> 
> I'm totally up for a new SW RPG and ready to throw some cash around  AS LONG AS its not D20 (or that level of crunch/complexity). I'd like to see a leaner cleaner system- about WEG D6 complexity, but obviously dealing with the issues that game had.




Well, there's also another group that will buy it, no matter who holds the license: the canon junkies.  They're not that big in number, and may not like the system, but they'll buy to find out the latest bit of canon information in their favorite sci-fi franchise.

I'll give it a try, personally, but I do think that it'll be difficult to beat Saga Edition.


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## El Mahdi (Dec 15, 2010)

CAFRedblade said:


> ...Paizo (I'm not aware of any mini line that they have)...




They don't have a mini-line that they make themselves, but they do license Pathfinder miniatures through Reaper.  So not known for minis, but capable of producing a minis line?  Hmmmmmm...


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 15, 2010)

I seriously doubt I will buy the books this time around.  A new edition of Starwars every 4 years is a bit excessive (especially if you include the misc. Mini based starwars games into the edition count).  Unless the new license holder managed to purchase it for more then 5 years, there is little reason for me to buy it since I know the next license holder will only end up recreating the proverbial wheel because they will not be able to incrementing the rules unless if the system was ogl.


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## Katana_Geldar (Dec 15, 2010)

If Wizards made Saga OGL then that would be great, as there are a few "holes" in the EU that are not filled in. If one wants to run a NJO era game, for example, you need a combination of the _Legacy_ book, converting the Revised rules and quite a bit of homebrew.

As for canon, well...Wizards never really had any respect for it and the old d6 *created* the EU. I always hover between big events and undocumented ones and I am happy.


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## Stormonu (Dec 15, 2010)

I haven't seen anything that excludes Margeret Weis Productions; they already do have several TV properties and could pick up for the Clone Wars aspect.


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## Katana_Geldar (Dec 15, 2010)

If it was an all-Clone Wars game.... *shudders*

The Clone Wars book was a good one! Why overwrite it? I use some of the mass combat rules for that for 4th ed.


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## Banshee16 (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm thinking Green Ronin.  They've got A Song of Ice and Fire, Thieves World, Black Company, and Dragon Age.  They always seem to pop up with interesting licenses, and they're not known for their miniatures.....and they have some non-D20 rules systems as well.

Banshee


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## Dragonblade (Dec 15, 2010)

Some of my comments:

1) Its NOT FREAKING "SAGA" edition!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 

Its "Saga" edition. SAGA (spelled in all caps) was the card based RPG that TSR designed for Dragonlance 5th Age and then later used for the Marvel Super Heroes RPG. I hate to be an RPG snob and go all geek aggro, but get it right people! 

2) I have played all editions of the SW RPG and own a vast WEG collection of books, along with ALL books for all the WotC versions, and the Saga edition version was on par with the WEG version. I had my rules quibbles here and there, but I did with the WEG version too. But in terms of production value, art, and content, the WotC SW Saga books were exceptional. Rodney Thompson did a fantastic job of managing the line.

3) I really would like to see FFG get the license. I think they could do it justice and put out some tie-in board games or something that could double as mini games that work in tandem with the core RPG but also standalone and be fun to play in their own right. Like a SW boardgame to handle massive starship battles complete wth tons of minis and tokens and stuff.  As far as system goes, I would prefer a d20 oriented system, though not necessarily with levels or classes or anything. But I'll reserve judgement.

And for the love of god, please lots of support for the Old Republic era. I despise the prequels utterly. And no "collectible" anything. I hate collectible games.


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## jaerdaph (Dec 15, 2010)

Stormonu said:


> I haven't seen anything that excludes Margeret Weis Productions; they already do have several TV properties and could pick up for the Clone Wars aspect.




Cam Banks of MWP said it isn't them either:

RPGnet Forums - View Single Post - [Star Wars] Hints of a new RPG in the works


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 15, 2010)

I'm guessing George Lucas bought it himself through a straw man so he can re-release it in a Deluxe Platinum Collector's Edition Ruleset, featuring a common fluff set but with mechanics for ALL versions if the game...but jazzed up with his own visionary re-imaginings of certain rules to make each version _awesomer than EVAR!_


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## humble minion (Dec 15, 2010)

I've thought for a while that Eden Studios would do a good Star Wars game.  The understanding of genre that they bought to the Buffy RPG shows that they just _get it_ in a way that SWd20 (which was the last edition I saw, and which browned me off so badly I never even looked at Sage) just didn't.

Buffy made it so that, in general, playing a character in a Buffy-like way was a mechanically plausible, and indeed optimal, choice.  And the Hero/White Hat way of going about things would work for Jed/non Jedi too.

I have no idea whether Eden is even around these days any more, but I DO think they'd do SW well if they got the chance...


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## giant.robot (Dec 15, 2010)

I really enjoyed the Saga Edition rules, not only did they presage some 4E rules but I think the system did a bit better than WEG's D6 system in terms of Star Wars feeling. WEG's system was clunky in too many areas (in my opinion) to really do justice to the high adventure of Star Wars. Every round required rolling several handfuls of dice which slowed the action down a lot. Saga Edition to me took the good things about WEG's system and put it behind a D20 mechanic.

I think I'd like to see Green Ronin get ahold of the license. The Mutants and Masterminds system would be awesome for Star Wars. Thanks to non-mutant (non-Jedi) abilities and powers a normal human of a particular power level can hold their own against a superhuman of the same level. It could prove to be one of the better Star Wars adaptations even. Han Solo needs to remain relevant next to Luke Skywalker for everyone to have fun. 

Green Ronin looks like they're interested in picking up licensed properties, they already picked up a DC license an Dragon Age. Adding Star Wars to their portfolio wouldn't be out of character. Besides my love for the MM and True20 systems GR also seems to have their heads on straight when it comes to distribution. They have well laid out digest size books (their pocket guides) and offer PDF editions of their books.


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## Bluenose (Dec 15, 2010)

FFG are probably favourites, although I don't know if they'd want another SF game with their GW properties going.

Steve Jackson Games have RPGs, Card Games, Board Games, and aren't noted for their minis, which matches the information we have. 

Does it have to be an English language company? I don't know enough about the companies to identify particular ones, but there are some around.


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## GreyLord (Dec 15, 2010)

Bluenose said:


> FFG are probably favourites, although I don't know if they'd want another SF game with their GW properties going.
> 
> Steve Jackson Games have RPGs, Card Games, Board Games, and aren't noted for their minis, which matches the information we have.
> 
> Does it have to be an English language company? I don't know enough about the companies to identify particular ones, but there are some around.




Just as a note, FFG is known for it's minis in some circles...

Whether they consider it's minis games a major factor in knowing it for it's miniatures line or not...I suppose would be the question for Mongoose.

FFG is more known for it's boardgames...but I'd say there might be more who know about FFG's minis then their RPG's...at least up until they got Dark Heresy.

On the otherhand, one of their minis lines had a movie made on them (though not a big successful one from what I understand) where as WH from GW hasn't yet (that I know of, but several awesome video games).


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## TarionzCousin (Dec 15, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> I'm guessing George Lucas bought it himself through a straw man so he can re-release it in a Deluxe Platinum Collector's Edition Ruleset, featuring a common fluff set but with mechanics for ALL versions if the game...but jazzed up with his own visionary re-imaginings of certain rules to make each version _awesomer than EVAR!_



This was my thought too. Extrapolate a bit and you get this: the only race allowed for player characters is Ewok. 

Think of all the toys he could sell!


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## Pbartender (Dec 15, 2010)

While put my money on Green Ronin, I'm really hoping for Evil Hat Games...  I'd love to see a proper Star Wars RPG done using a FATE-based system.

Although, as someone up-thread said, using the classing 7th-Sea style keep-and-roll system would be an awful lot of fun as well.


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## John Crichton (Dec 15, 2010)

Pbartender said:


> I'd love to see a proper Star Wars RPG done using a FATE-based system.



That's a little too out there for my tastes.  Then again, I didn't have any problems with SAGA or West End Games versions.


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## Wednesday Boy (Dec 15, 2010)

Alaxk Knight of Galt said:


> Doing SW with the Roll and Keep system would rock




I would definitely be interested in checking out how an AEG Roll and Keep system would approach a SW RPG.



delericho said:


> On a personal level, I'm just not interested in any new Star Wars RPG. We've now had six versions across two entirely different systems, with a number of fan conversions to other systems out there as well. I really don't know what more can be done for the universe, RPG-wise.




I'm in the same boat unless it's an entirely new system (such as Roll and Keep, like Alaxk noted).  I liked SAGA but the books progressively went downhill to me.  It seemed to me like they covered as much as was available and didn't have enough novel ideas for the later supplements.


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## delericho (Dec 15, 2010)

Wednesday Boy said:


> I'm in the same boat unless it's an entirely new system (such as Roll and Keep, like Alaxk noted).  I liked SAGA but the books progressively went downhill to me.  It seemed to me like they covered as much as was available and didn't have enough novel ideas for the later supplements.




Problem is, I'm not sure there actually _is_ a lot of material to cover. Fluff topics are better (and much more extensively covered) by things like Wookieepedia or the various Star Wars Encyclopedias out there. Plus, of course, they've now been covered extensively by the existing editions.

That just leaves the various 'crunch' topics. But the problem here is that you don't go very far before you run out of meaningful distinctions - once you've got the top 25 playable races statted up, plus various archetypal weapons, armour, droids and spaceships, what more is there? It's really not that long before you're really digging into niche topics.

And besides, do we really want yet another take on stats for Luke Skywalker? He's almost certainly not going to appear in most campaigns anyway!


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## Klaus (Dec 15, 2010)

Well, Hasbro has tons of Star Wars licenses. Maybe it'll be out by WotC's parent company?

That being said, I'd prefer if it was still the Saga edition. Awesome mechanics and very true to the setting!


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## Wednesday Boy (Dec 15, 2010)

delericho said:


> Problem is, I'm not sure there actually _is_ a lot of material to cover. Fluff topics are better (and much more extensively covered) by things like Wookieepedia or the various Star Wars Encyclopedias out there. Plus, of course, they've now been covered extensively by the existing editions.
> 
> That just leaves the various 'crunch' topics. But the problem here is that you don't go very far before you run out of meaningful distinctions - once you've got the top 25 playable races statted up, plus various archetypal weapons, armour, droids and spaceships, what more is there? It's really not that long before you're really digging into niche topics.
> 
> And besides, do we really want yet another take on stats for Luke Skywalker? He's almost certainly not going to appear in most campaigns anyway!




I wholeheartedly agree, I think SAGA didn't have much material left to cover towards the end and could have condensed its set of publications significantly.  And at least for my needs, I have plenty of fluff from other books that I own.  But if someone developed a new _system_ for Star Wars that had new and interesting mechanics, I could be lured in because that could significantly change gameplay.  The WEG Star Wars games I played in were very different than the SAGA Star Wars games that I played in, which is why a system different than either of them would make me take notice.  But rehashing one of those systems wouldn't really catch my eye.


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## MortonStromgal (Dec 15, 2010)

While I'm not a Savage Worlds fan I think Star Wars and Savage Worlds fit well together.


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## darjr (Dec 15, 2010)

It wasn't evil Stevie
[Star Wars] Some company unknown purchased the tt games license - Steve Jackson Games Forums


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## Pbartender (Dec 15, 2010)

Klaus said:


> That being said, I'd prefer if it was still the Saga edition. Awesome mechanics and very true to the setting!




I couldn't disagree with you more.  Here's why...

This...



Wednesday Boy said:


> I liked SAGA but the books progressively went downhill to me.  It seemed to me like they covered as much as was available and didn't have enough novel ideas for the later supplements.




...and this, for example...



delericho said:


> That just leaves the various 'crunch' topics. But the problem here is that you don't go very far before you run out of meaningful distinctions - once you've got the top 25 playable races statted up, plus various archetypal weapons, armour, droids and spaceships, what more is there? It's really not that long before you're really digging into niche topics.




...speak to the big problem with SW RPGs in the past.  They focused on too much crunch, too many rules, too many long lists of equipment and weapons and vehicles, too many fiddly esoteric details that only the most OCD fans care about.

This is a bit anecdotal, but bear with me...  I like Star Wars, and I like it a lot.  For the last 20 years I've been trying to get a Star Wars game going in every edition of every system it was published under.  I'd end up with maybe one or two players who were big fans and knew all the trivia that the rule books referenced, and at best everyone else had seen the movies a few times and thought they were pretty good.  Invariably, the latter were turned off as the overload of subtle details from the "Expanded Universe" passed them by, and they simply weren't interested enough in taking the time to learn it.  They got bored, because the action in the game wasn't remotely like the action happening in the movies their characters couldn't do anything as cool as what the characters in the movies did, and the campaign would fall apart after only an adventure or two.

I firmly believe that for a Star Wars game to succeed, it needs to largely ignore everything other than the movies.  Most people who are aware of Star Wars haven't seen any more of it than that and don't really care about any more of it than that.  Adding in further details from the extended canon excludes these people and seems to actively turn them away from the game.

I think the game should focus the players on the high action-adventure scenes and plot and character development the original Saturday-afternoon-matinee-summer-blockbuster format of the movies engenders, rather than focusing them on the stats and numbers abilities of characters, equipment, weapons and vehicles.  I think there's a lot of systems out there that could do that a LOT better than D20 ever did.

That not to say that D6 or Saga aren't good systems...  I just don't think that the way they work (and especially with regards to how they were implemented with Star Wars) is the best fit for the style of Star Wars.

But hey...  That's just me.  Maybe I'm just pissing in the wind.


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## TheYeti1775 (Dec 15, 2010)

Honestly most of you are right, most of the fluff could easily be done off of Wookiepedia alone.

There are a few keys to owning the license that would be necessary to succeed IMHO.

1. Decent Mechanics - something fresh but not to drastically different from what the average fan already knows.
2. Offer something Wookiepedia doesn't.  Currently it is filled with all the novel/movie facts and history.  Your average player knows the basic history of the movies, but continue down the Legacy Era.  By doing so, nothing you write fluff on will have been done yet.
3. Electronic Support.  How many of you would fall over yourself for that?  One for character creation and one for starship creation/mods.

I'm currently in a Saga (Legacy Era) game now, and I actually like it a lot.  I'm currently reading the novels in chrono order now.  It is giving me a great feel for the campaign I'm in.  

But back to the OT:
So far we have denials from on their boards from:
Paizo / Margret Weiss Press / Steve Jackson Games / Mongoose


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## billd91 (Dec 15, 2010)

Pbartender said:


> This is a bit anecdotal, but bear with me...  I like Star Wars, and I like it a lot.  For the last 20 years I've been trying to get a Star Wars game going in every edition of every system it was published under.  I'd end up with maybe one or two players who were big fans and knew all the trivia that the rule books referenced, and at best everyone else had seen the movies a few times and thought they were pretty good.  Invariably, the latter were turned off as the overload of subtle details from the "Expanded Universe" passed them by, and they simply weren't interested enough in taking the time to learn it.  They got bored, because the action in the game wasn't remotely like the action happening in the movies their characters couldn't do anything as cool as what the characters in the movies did, and the campaign would fall apart after only an adventure or two.
> 
> I firmly believe that for a Star Wars game to succeed, it needs to largely ignore everything other than the movies.  Most people who are aware of Star Wars haven't seen any more of it than that and don't really care about any more of it than that.  Adding in further details from the extended canon excludes these people and seems to actively turn them away from the game.
> 
> ...




I think I really have to hop in here and defend SWSE on this score. I thought that they did a pretty decent job of compartmentalizing major aspects of the Star Wars expanded universe in the SWSE supplements. Not interested in the Force Unleashed stuff? Skip that supplement and its impact on the game is relatively light. I've been able to pretty much ignore large segments of the expanded universe by just leaving out a supplement or two.

That said, I don't think SWSE is immune to criticism on the topic of running out of some things to write about, but I thought their approach to the whole Star Wars enchilada and the question of focusing on the expanded universe or away from it wasn't a bad one.


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## Klaus (Dec 15, 2010)

Pbartender said:


> I couldn't disagree with you more.  Here's why...
> 
> This...
> 
> ...



Well, that's more of a problem with the old Star Wars as a "story" and Star Wars as a "setting" thing. If you reference only the movies, you have very limited material to play with. Most races are never named, and fewer still have more than a cameo.

I think a good Star Wars game needs to pretend that those reading know nothing of Star Wars (specially EU stuff) and present all the details needed so I don't have to reference Wookieepedia to run a game.

I think SWSE was very good, specially if you use the Core book, Starships of the Galaxy and the era book you want to play in (Clone Wars, Rebellion, Legacy, Force Unleashed, KotOR). That gives you enough material to run some very good games, and pares down the ammount of fiddly bits.


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## El Mahdi (Dec 15, 2010)

Katana_Geldar said:


> If Wizards made Saga OGL then that would be great...




But not really necessary.  Granted, another company would not be able to call it D20 or Saga, but it should be rather simple to recreate Saga using the OGL.  They could just call it _Star Wars OGL _or_ OGL3._  If whoever bought it wanted to go the OGL route, it would probably be significantly easier than creating a new system...unless whoever has it now is going to use one of their own in-house systems...


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## pawsplay (Dec 15, 2010)

billd91 said:


> I think I really have to hop in here and defend SWSE on this score. I thought that they did a pretty decent job of compartmentalizing major aspects of the Star Wars expanded universe in the SWSE supplements. Not interested in the Force Unleashed stuff? Skip that supplement and its impact on the game is relatively light. I've been able to pretty much ignore large segments of the expanded universe by just leaving out a supplement or two.
> 
> That said, I don't think SWSE is immune to criticism on the topic of running out of some things to write about, but I thought their approach to the whole Star Wars enchilada and the question of focusing on the expanded universe or away from it wasn't a bad one.




I disagree. If you didn't own Force Unleashed, you were running SWSE with one character-building arm tied behind your back. Especially if you were playing in the early Rebellion era. They refused, refused, refused to print an Alien Anthology, so most of the aliens in the Cantina and early EU novels were scattered across sourcebooks, many in completely unrelated eras to when the race first appeared. It was the "core everything" problem of AD&D 2e all over again.

The real sin of SWSE was not choosing to include or not include X, but in making it hard to mesh SWSE with as much or little of the EU as you wanted. Example: Imbuing lightsabers, which is prominent in some novels, no evidence for it in the films, treated inconstently in EU sources; SWSE makes it canon for all Jedi. Example: Stun batons, described in detail in the Essential Guide to Weapons and Technology, including their ability to deliver a powerful electric charge, but treated with little detail and no attention paid to their lethal capacity in SWSE. Some of the writers were pretty open about not caring about details, even things easily looked up on Wookipedia. They really goofed on the Ithorian's booming voice ability, refused to backtrack, and thereby introduced an element completely inconsistent with the storyline concerning the Ithorian homeworld in earlier EU novels. Maybe they were fans, I don't know, but they didn't treat the setting the way I, as a fan, felt it to deserved to be treated.


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## korjik (Dec 15, 2010)

Since talking about the merits of Saga is a bit off topic....

I personally _dont_ want FFG to pick up the license. Trying to do Star Wars would either mean:

To little support for Star Wars to do the game justice

or

To little support for Rogue Trader to do the game justice

Either way, I lose.


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## Treebore (Dec 15, 2010)

I don't know, I ran a SW Legacy era game for a few months and it was very well liked.

All the history and continuity never got in the way because I refused to allow it to do so. So the SW experts were a little peeved that I ignored things, but those who weren't experts didn't feel lost, and we all had a lot of fun.

My system was Saga, and I call it SAGA because I think it is so good it deserves to be yelled out every time it is said.

It amazed me at how well the feel of the Jedi, and the aliens, and the fundamental flavor of SW just oozed throughout every game session.

I never experienced that before, not even with D6.

Still, I think FFG is definitely the most likely to have obtained the license, and I too hope they do not do it like they did Warhammer 3E. If they do have the license, and they do it the same way, I will not buy it until others convince me it does the "flavor" as well as or better than Saga does it.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 15, 2010)

> My system was Saga, and I call it SAGA because I think it is so good it deserves to be yelled out every time it is said.



You, my friend, are on the loose!
_*rockin' out*_

One day you feel quite stable
The next you're comin' off the wall
But I think that you should warn me
If you start heading for a fall

I see the problem start
I watch the tension grow
I see you keeping it to yourself

And then instead of reaching conclusions
I see you reaching for something else

No one can stop you now
Tonight you're on the loose
No one to tell you how
Tonight you're on the loose
No one can stop you now
Tonight you're on the loose
No one to tell you how
Tonight you're on the loose


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## wingsandsword (Dec 19, 2010)

I am a huge fan of Star Wars RPGs.

The d6 SWRPG was the first game I actually ran, I've got most of the d6 SWRPG books, almost every book ever made for every d20 edition, and a number of non-RPG reference books.

That said, I"ve got next to zero interest in yet another SWRPG.  Yet another predictable core book treading the same old turf, the same sourcebooks covering the same materials.  Of the 4 published SWRPG's, I'd say d6 and Saga are my favorites, but I would probably run Saga because of supporting crunch for eras other than Rebellion and New Republic and a general like of d20 over d6 (although d6 isn't that bad).  

I might have bought a GURPS Star Wars core book just for the fun of it even if I never played or ran it, but that's about it.

I don't need more miniatures, there, I said it.  I've got huge amounts of starship and character minis from collecting the WotC minis over the years, dozens of Jedi and Sith, a dozen Stormtroopers and squads of all the various variant troopers, lots of, well, everything.  I've got minis for everything Star Wars I could want to run from the Old Republic all the way through to Legacy Era.

As someone who has been playing and running Star Wars RPGs for 13 years now, I just wonder what could another game by another company offer that I don't already have.  By the end of Saga Edition, I was buying some books just out of completionism.


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## prosfilaes (Dec 19, 2010)

wingsandsword, I don't think they're targetting you, or anyone else who has a significant amount of Star Wars D6. I think the anticipation is that there's enough gamers out there who don't have old Star Wars, probably weren't even gaming at that time, and would be willing to buy the new stuff instead of chasing down the old stuff. I don't know that they've left it fallow long enough, but I think that's the theory.


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## wingsandsword (Dec 19, 2010)

prosfilaes said:


> wingsandsword, I don't think they're targetting you, or anyone else who has a significant amount of Star Wars D6. I think the anticipation is that there's enough gamers out there who don't have old Star Wars, probably weren't even gaming at that time, and would be willing to buy the new stuff instead of chasing down the old stuff. I don't know that they've left it fallow long enough, but I think that's the theory.




Since the d20 Star Wars RPG was canceled earlier this year, that's not that old, and it's not exactly hard to find some of the older editions.

A quick check of Amazon.com shows that the Revised Core Rules of the d20 RPG goes for less than the original cover price.  The d6 version is for sale for rock-bottom prices, even "new" copies are for about cover price.  Only the Saga Edition rulebooks is at inflated prices.

If someone wanted to play Star Wars on-the-cheap, some d6 RPG rulebooks, a net connection and Wookieepedia pulled up, and you could game for years.

I guess I'm going to become a Star Wars Edition Grognard now at Saga Edition, just like I've become a D&D Grognard at 3.5


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## Flatus Maximus (Dec 19, 2010)

dannyalcatraz said:


> you, my friend, are on the loose!
> _*rockin' out*_
> 
> one day you feel quite stable
> ...




I can't give you XP so: O.M.F.G.


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## swordsmasher (Dec 19, 2010)

I am curious to see who got the license. 
I think that maybe the V6 engine might work well with star wars.
You know, Atomic Highway?


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 19, 2010)

> So far we have denials from on their boards from:
> Paizo / Margret Weiss Press / Steve Jackson Games / Mongoose




Any noise from Palladium?


(_ducks_)


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## Hypersmurf (Dec 19, 2010)

Pbartender said:


> While put my money on Green Ronin, I'm really hoping for Evil Hat Games...  I'd love to see a proper Star Wars RPG done using a FATE-based system.




I've been playing in a Star Wars FATE campaign for the last few months, and it's working well.

The GM decided to go ahead with it after running a Star Wars one-shot, also using FATE, in which I played, and which was the best SW RPG experience I've ever had.

-Hyp.


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 19, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Any noise from Palladium?
> 
> 
> (_ducks_)




Kevin Siembieda would be up all in that yo!  He'd be like, "Light Sabers?  Let's make dat sucka 1d6 MD.  Make dem Storm Troopers use SDC armor and doze Blastecs do 3d6x10 SDC, 'Cus dat's how I roll, son!"

Then he would be all, "Yo! Let's toss a Glitter Boi and a Veritek in dat adventure, cuz dat stuff tight yo!"*


* Yes, that's how Keven Siembieda sounds like in my mind.


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## Pbartender (Dec 20, 2010)

Hypersmurf said:


> I've been playing in a Star Wars FATE campaign for the last few months, and it's working well.
> 
> The GM decided to go ahead with it after running a Star Wars one-shot, also using FATE, in which I played, and which was the best SW RPG experience I've ever had.
> 
> -Hyp.




*...SIGH...*

I wanted to, at one point, run a FATE Star Was kitbash for a one-shot adventure.  The response was: "If we _have_ to play Star Wars, why can't we play with the _official_ rules?"

...because I want to run something that _isn't_ D20 for a change!

Oh, well.


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## Zaran (Dec 20, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Any noise from Palladium?
> 
> 
> (_ducks_)




Oh please no!  If there is one system that so needs a new edition, no...total rewrite,  it is Palladium.


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## Plane Sailing (Dec 20, 2010)

I'd love to see Chaosium with the license, and a good set of BRP based rules for Star Wars.

Don't imagine it would happen, but that's what I'd like to see!


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 20, 2010)

Yeah, Chaosium would probably be a good fit.


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## JeffB (Dec 20, 2010)

I'd certainly trust Chaosium with the writing part- they've always done a bang up job with anythng related to plot, story, adventure, etc, without beating one over the head with uninteresting, or useless minutiae.

And I'd be happier than a pig in you know what with BRP if they would be leaning towards the CoC side of rules economy (as opposed to say, RQ3)

But they don't seem to me to have the resources to get a decent amount of product out. They are pretty thin I believe these days for employees, no?


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## Cergorach (Dec 20, 2010)

Did someone at Chaosium win the lottery?

Palladium... I believe digging up the dead without a proper warrent is highly illegal...

Wingsandsword makes a decent point, the last SW edition is still to fresh in our minds, distributors and in turn the retailers are now dumping the old stuff. So I expect that for RPG and RPG miniatures the market will be seriously flooded in 2011, add to that that a lot of publishers say that RPG is currently in a downward spiral, I doubt we'll see a SW RPG in the comming year or two. Miniatures maybe, the collectible component of the WotC SW miniatures made it difficult to aquire decent amounts of troops, you had a surplus of special and unique characters that in most miniature games wouldn't be very usefull. High quality plastic (unpainted/unassembled) multipart SW miniatures would find a market even at GW prices (and quality). But now there is a market for SW boardgames and cardgames. Maybe even a board/miniatures game like Dust. Maybe a RPG/boardgame hybrid like Descent...


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## ssampier (Dec 21, 2010)

If it was FFG that got the Star Wars license, would it be smart for them for do another board/RPG combo like Warhammer 3e?


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## Shawn_Kehoe (Dec 21, 2010)

ssampier said:


> If it was FFG that got the Star Wars license, would it be smart for them for do another board/RPG combo like Warhammer 3e?




That's certainly a possibility. I'm believe that GW owns the custom dice mechanic from WFRP, but the basic notion could be used. The WFRP box set is pretty expensive though ... I wonder if they would make another RPG SKU in that range? Then again, the core books for their traditional RPGs ain't cheap either.


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## JediSoth (Dec 21, 2010)

Who ever has the license now, I hope they put out some system-neutral game aids. I have all of the Saga edition books (a game I've never played, I just have because some of my friends play it) and a sizable collection of the D6 books (my preferred edition). I don't really need a new edition of a Star Wars RPG. It's not like either of the games I have are so broken with rules bloat that they feel old and tired (the way AD&D 2nd edition could by the time 3E came out). So much of what makes a Star Wars game feel like Star Wars is system-neutral, you can run an awesome Star Wars game using half-a-dozen systems.

To-scale starship miniature would be pretty awesome though, though it would be challenging since capital ships are SO much larger than fighters and freighters. Hopefully, who ever puts out the next miniatures line won't randomize them. I have way too many minis I'll never use, and still not enough Stormtroopers.


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## Hawke (Dec 23, 2010)

ssampier said:


> If it was FFG that got the Star Wars license, would it be smart for them for do another board/RPG combo like Warhammer 3e?




I think that would be the best bet - seems to be the future of bigger RPGs.  The SW name would make it an easy gift, too, especially if they could get it into bigger stores like the red box was able to do.  Can't you see Grandma seeing some starwars box, picking it up, seeing cards maybe some cardboard tokens or a "sample" full miniature and putting it in the box for her grandson? Sure, they're pricy, but I think you could do a lot with it.


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## TarionzCousin (Dec 23, 2010)

Dannyalcatraz said:


> Any noise from Palladium?
> 
> 
> (_ducks_)






Cergorach said:


> Palladium... I believe digging up the dead without a proper warrent is highly illegal...



You guys just wait until the RIFTS movie is made and it is full of awesome borgian sword-swingers and techno-wizards flinging around radioactive poop.  It will be like The Matrix meets Brain Candy plus Every Bad Sci-Fi/Fantasy movie from the '80's. With a soundtrack by Asia. Starring Nicolas Cage = Number one at the box office for ten months!


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## Relique du Madde (Dec 23, 2010)

Flatus Maximus said:


> I can't give you XP so: O.M.F.G.




Don't worry, I did it for you.


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## e4Mafia (Dec 24, 2010)

I would love to see a fate version. I think that kind of system can really push the feel of the world in the right direction.


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## Dannyalcatraz (Dec 24, 2010)

IMHO, a RIFTS movie or TV series in the right hands could be cooler than kewl.  The game's flaws were 99% mechanics, not the setting.


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## El Mahdi (Dec 24, 2010)

TarionzCousin said:


> You guys just wait until the RIFTS movie is made and it is full of awesome borgian sword-swingers and techno-wizards flinging around radioactive poop. It will be like The Matrix meets Brain Candy plus Every Bad Sci-Fi/Fantasy movie from the '80's. With a soundtrack by Asia. Starring Nicolas Cage = Number one at the box office for ten months!




I'm assuming this post was just a _Heat of the Moment_ kind of thing...


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## LightPhoenix (Dec 24, 2010)

If we're going out on a limb and making wacky guesses base on pure conjecture, I'll throw one out there.

Bioware.  Has enough money to buy it.  Currently designing in the SW universe, and an MMORPG at that.  Is not known for their miniatures, and is a relative unknown in the tabletop industry.


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## Cergorach (Dec 24, 2010)

There was an option on the Rifts movie rights, and I doubt that we'll ever see a movie/tv-series. In July 2009 the optien was extended by a year, no news since then, so the option ran out. Palladium would jump at the press release to announce that there might be a Rifts movie, like they did the five years before (with no real results).


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## Water Bob (Dec 24, 2010)

kitsune9 said:


> For me, my favorite Star Wars was d6.




Make that two hands way up for this.  Yes, D6 Star Wars was "it".  It was the nail being hit on the head.

IT was THE PERFECT SYSTEM for Star Wars.  It fit the genre like a glove.

I'd sure like to see a return to it.


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## ssampier (Dec 26, 2010)

Hawke said:


> I think that would be the best bet - seems to be the future of bigger RPGs.  The SW name would make it an easy gift, too, especially if they could get it into bigger stores like the red box was able to do.  Can't you see Grandma seeing some starwars box, picking it up, seeing cards maybe some cardboard tokens or a "sample" full miniature and putting it in the box for her grandson? Sure, they're pricy, but I think you could do a lot with it.




I keep hearing this. You really think an RPG/board game sells better than RPG books? I really liked Warhammer 2e, but I am not about to buy a $100 Warhammer 3e set. I am one of those gamers that reads RPGs far more than actually playing.

Granted I am not the target market for this. Maybe Games Workshop and FFG are rolling around in cash piles and laughing all the way to the bank with their decision, but color me skeptical.


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## Cergorach (Dec 26, 2010)

ssampier said:


> I keep hearing this. You really think an RPG/board game sells better than RPG books? I really liked Warhammer 2e, but I am not about to buy a $100 Warhammer 3e set. I am one of those gamers that reads RPGs far more than actually playing.
> 
> Granted I am not the target market for this. Maybe Games Workshop and FFG are rolling around in cash piles and laughing all the way to the bank with their decision, but color me skeptical.




I really dislike WFRP 3E because it tries to replace the 2E RPG game with a semi-boardgame. A Descent like game could easily exist beside a traditional RPG book product. Something with miniatures that attract they eye...


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## Jhaelen (Jan 4, 2011)

Cergorach said:


> I really dislike WFRP 3E because it tries to replace the 2E RPG game with a semi-boardgame. A Descent like game could easily exist beside a traditional RPG book product. Something with miniatures that attract they eye...



Except it isn't a 'semi-boardgame' and definitely not 'Descent-like'. 

Don't believe everything you read on the internet


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## Jools (Jan 4, 2011)

Jhaelen said:


> Except it isn't a 'semi-boardgame' and definitely not 'Descent-like'.
> 
> Don't believe everything you read on the internet




My greatest apologies for fueling this off topic debate, but I couldn't agree more. Especially the Descent-like bit, its one of those "DnD is like WOW" type statements. I'm not even a fan of WFRP 3rd Ed, but I certainly know that isnt true. Let the regular topic recommence. Sorry.


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## Maggan (Jan 4, 2011)

ssampier said:


> I keep hearing this. You really think an RPG/board game sells better than RPG books?




It is really difficult to say, really. The sales of RPG books are tiny compared to board games, but how an RPG packaged as WFRPv3 fares is anyone's guess. According to ICv2 it sold well enough to chart as a top five seller consistently during 2010.

But as FFG now released the rules in hardback versions, I'm torn between thinking that it is to add to the options available, or if it is because the boxed set approach wasn't as successful as they hoped.

Still, I think WFRPv3 is a solid RPG, and it has tried to break away from the "books as games"-mentality that has had the industry in its grip. It is my firm belief that games that look like games are better to bring in new gamers than games that look like books.

Cheers!

/M


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## Katana_Geldar (Jan 4, 2011)

What news?


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## Cergorach (Jan 5, 2011)

Jhaelen said:


> Except it isn't a 'semi-boardgame' and definitely not 'Descent-like'.
> 
> Don't believe everything you read on the internet




It certainly isn't Descent like, Descent like I could have semi lived with. But the thing has counters, custom dice (think Heroquest dice), nine types of cards, stand ups, and some counters that work like a puzzle. When I open the (very expensive box, which I own by the way), I get more a feeling of a boardgame then a pnp RPG (heck even D&D 4E doesn't require cards). It certainly isn't the box or the stand ups, both I have seen in/with pnp RPGs.

I think you and someone else got confused by the two sentences, they were two very separate statements.



> But as FFG now released the rules in hardback versions, I'm torn between thinking that it is to add to the options available, or if it is because the boxed set approach wasn't as successful as they hoped.



This I didn't know, I think they left a lot of WFRP players behind with the 'unique' box design, they were unconvinced by the new concepts that were not 'classic' pnp (like they were used to). I might have a look and see how they integrated all the 'stuff' into the book format.


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## ss2020 (Aug 18, 2011)

Fantasy Flight Games got it.

Fantasy Flight Games [News] - Use The Force


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## MerricB (Aug 18, 2011)

We know. 

http://www.enworld.org/forum/genera...i-think-i-know-who-has-star-wars-license.html
http://www.enworld.org/forum/rpg-in...t-games-officially-has-star-wars-license.html

Cheers!


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## Aaziroth (Aug 18, 2011)

Well, whoever picks it up there's something that's always been left out concerning Han that's always bugged me...  He's a former Imperial spec opaque, and that was never covered in any game system to my knowledge...


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